# Hawaii Lodging Tax



## CiCi (May 8, 2018)

In looking at my upcoming reservations in Hawaii, there is a “Resort Update” at the top of the screen informing me, “The state of Hawaii assesses a lodging tax to guests staying at these resorts. A deposit of $250 for incidentals is required at check in.”

Does anyone know anything more about these taxes? Are they $250 or will I get some of that back?

I really don’t want to pay $750 for the three reservations I have and am a bit upset that I wasn’t notified when I booked the reservations.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 
CiCi


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## brp (May 8, 2018)

It is nowhere near this much. It was maybe $10 or so? I guess they are keeping a deposit against this, but I wouldn't expect it to be more than the single $250. And it may only be a Hold and not even a real charge.

Cheers.


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## frank808 (May 8, 2018)

CiCi said:


> In looking at my upcoming reservations in Hawaii, there is a “Resort Update” at the top of the screen informing me, “The state of Hawaii assesses a lodging tax to guests staying at these resorts. A deposit of $250 for incidentals is required at check in.”
> 
> Does anyone know anything more about these taxes? Are they $250 or will I get some of that back?
> 
> ...



They will run a deposit of $250 for each room.  The deposit is a common thing at my timeshare stays and regular hotel stays.  I have had a hold be put on my credit card at every hgvc resort at check in.  The amount varies though.  Usually in the $150 to $300 range. You can have the person in the room leave their credit card instead of leaving your card. 

The transient accommodations tax is collected by hilton to be paid to state of hawaii.  It varies but it is under $20 a night per room.  

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## tompalm (May 9, 2018)

GE tax is 4.7 percent and TAT is about another 10 percent. So your tax to the state is around 15 percent of the room cost. Other cities are charging close to 20 percent.  But it sounds like you are being charged a resort fee like they do in Vegas and a bunch of other places. You need to call the resort and ask them about that. If it is a resort fee, don’t expect to get any of that back.


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## frank808 (May 9, 2018)

There is no ge tax of 4.712% on oahu or 4.167% on neighbor islandsfor timeshare stays.  Just the tat for your stay which is based on the maintenance fee paid yearly.  Well they do charge the GE tax on the tat part.

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## CiCi (May 9, 2018)

tompalm said:


> GE tax is 4.7 percent and TAT is about another 10 percent. So your tax to the state is around 15 percent of the room cost. Other cities are charging close to 20 percent.  But it sounds like you are being charged a resort fee like they do in Vegas and a bunch of other places. You need to call the resort and ask them about that. If it is a resort fee, don’t expect to get any of that back.



Thank you. It is not a resort fee; I saw that fee when I booked the reservation. The issue I have is that I am just now being told about this fee and $750 was not put in the vacation budget for this expense. 


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## brp (May 9, 2018)

tompalm said:


> But it sounds like you are being charged a resort fee like they do in Vegas and a bunch of other places. You need to call the resort and ask them about that. If it is a resort fee, don’t expect to get any of that back.



I wasn't aware that any of the HGVC properties charged the resort fee for points stays. I know that, for example, Bay Club and Seaworld have resort fees for cash stays, but these are not charged for points stays. I had assumed that the others were the same.

Cheers.


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## frank808 (May 9, 2018)

Did not know bay club and seaworld charged resort fees.  I take it the fees are charged for rooms booked not using hgvc points?

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## GT75 (May 9, 2018)

frank808 said:


> Did not know bay club and seaworld charged resort fees.



The same note is also on The Bay Club resort page.     I agree with your interpretation previously posted.     To me, the note is very clear that a deposit of $250 for incidentals is required at check in.    Every HGVC stay that I have had has put a deposit of some amount usually $100 or so on a charge card.     I know that FA-Los Cabos puts somewhere between $1000-$1500 per room.     But of course, the easiest thing to do is call the resort and ask about the $250 charge to the credit card.   You can also find out about the amount of the TAT.


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## DeniseM (May 9, 2018)

Isn't the $250 just a _credit card hold_ that will be released if you don't have room charges?  This is pretty common.


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## SmithOp (May 9, 2018)

I was just at Kings Land, the $250 is to cover room charges during the stay.  They also add the TAT up front, so the Pending charge was about $330.  The final charge that get posted is just the TAT if you don’t charge anything to room during the stay.

The Resort charge is for RCI reservations.


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## Tamaradarann (May 9, 2018)

CiCi said:


> In looking at my upcoming reservations in Hawaii, there is a “Resort Update” at the top of the screen informing me, “The state of Hawaii assesses a lodging tax to guests staying at these resorts. A deposit of $250 for incidentals is required at check in.”
> 
> Does anyone know anything more about these taxes? Are they $250 or will I get some of that back?
> 
> ...



The $250 is a deposit which most resorts charge a deposit charged to your credit card.  If you don't do any room charges or have any damage claims, liking smoking in the room, the $250 is return.

The Hawaii State Lodging Tax must be paid.  It depends on the size of the accommodations that you are staying in.  It was just raised again this year. Last time I checked it ranges from about $4.00 a night for a Studio to about $12.00/night for a 3 BR.  So that is the range of the amount that you will be charged at check-out.


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## brp (May 9, 2018)

frank808 said:


> Did not know bay club and seaworld charged resort fees.  I take it the fees are charged for rooms booked not using hgvc points?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk



Yup.



SmithOp said:


> The Resort charge is for RCI reservations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro



It's also for cash stays booked on the Hilton site (maybe this will no longer be possible with the spin off? But this was the case when I looked at one point maybe a year or so ago.

Just checked: I still see it for Kohala Suites, as an example. KL may have it as well. Bay Club not showing up in the search at all.

Cheers.


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## tk25 (May 9, 2018)

This last January I paid less then $10/night in tax at Bay club for 1 bedroom.  Paid just over $10/night in 2 bedroom at kohala suites


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## bobpark56 (May 11, 2018)

We are in a 1BR unit at Ka'anapali Beach Club now. We are paying $151.62 in taxes for our 14-night stay...$10.83 per night.


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## Tamaradarann (May 13, 2018)

bobpark56 said:


> We are in a 1BR unit at Ka'anapali Beach Club now. We are paying $151.62 in taxes for our 14-night stay...$10.83 per night.



Do you own there?  We are using RCI points to go there next year for two weeks and in addition to the 151.62 in taxes we will have to pay $350 in resorts fees ($25/night).  That is $250/week more than using your points to stay at an RCI timeshare that does not have extra fees and taxes.

Hawaii's tax is just the way they like to raise money on tourists versus to raise the property tax which is about 1/10 of mine on Long Island.  The Voters in Hawaii love it.   The resort fee is a way for resorts to raise money to fund "amenities" without raising the maintenance for owners.  The Owners love it.


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## Sandy VDH (May 13, 2018)

RCI ( just recently changed) and direct booking via hilton.com (has been for a while now) you are paying a per day resort fee.   If you book that same resort using HGVC points you DO NOT pay the resort fee. 

You will be required to pay a TOT (or TAT) or whatever the letters are, that is an occupancy tax, based on MFs and is on a per night basis.  So studio are cheaper, 3 BR more, but between $20 to $50+ per 7 night stays. 

All of the resorts take a CC hold for incidentals, but this is not a charge just a hold.  It is the same that happens at most hotels you stay at.


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## Sapper (May 13, 2018)

I do not "own" in Hawaii, so I understand if I trade in, I am on the hook for the additional tax.  I might not like it, but I understand.  HOWEVER, IF I owned there, I would be pissed if I had to pay that tax.


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## Luanne (May 13, 2018)

Sapper said:


> I do not "own" in Hawaii, so I understand if I trade in, I am on the hook for the additional tax.  I might not like it, but I understand.  HOWEVER, IF I owned there, I would be pissed if I had to pay that tax.


Are you talking about the TAT or the resort fee?  Even owners have to pay the TAT, at least we do at the resort where we own.


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## Sapper (May 13, 2018)

Luanne said:


> Are you talking about the TAT or the resort fee?  Even owners have to pay the TAT, at least we do at the resort where we own.



The TAT.  IF I owned there, I would be very unhappy with the state of Hawaii putting that tax on my owned unit.


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## Sapper (May 13, 2018)

Taxation with out representation?  I think this was one of the causes of a little war back in 1776.  UNLESS, did the timeshare owners have a vote and agree to pay this tax?


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## SmithOp (May 13, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Taxation with out representation?  I think this was one of the causes of a little war back in 1776.  UNLESS, did the timeshare owners have a vote and agree to pay this tax?



oh come on you cant be serious, there are all kinds of taxes we dont vote on, every time you visit another state.  I just went to Denver for the weekend and paid airport taxes on my ticket and rental car and taxes on the hotel stay.  I paid sales tax on stuff I purchased there.  Be glad you can afford to travel and pay the tax, 1776 is long gone.




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## Sapper (May 13, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> oh come on you cant be serious, there are all kinds of taxes we dont vote on, every time you visit another state.  I just went to Denver for the weekend and paid airport taxes on my ticket and rental car and taxes on the hotel stay.  I paid sales tax on stuff I purchased there.  Be glad you can afford to travel and pay the tax, 1776 is long gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You don't OWN there.  There is a difference between visiting and owning.


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## Luanne (May 13, 2018)

Sapper said:


> You don't OWN there.  There is a difference between visiting and owning.


Do you own there?  If it bothers you that much then don't go.


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## Sapper (May 13, 2018)

Luanne said:


> If it bothers you that much then don't go there.



Exactly, I can choose not to because I do not own there.  Someone who owns property there should not have this tax imposed on them.


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## Luanne (May 13, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Exactly, I can choose not to because I do not own there.  Someone who owns property there should not have this tax imposed on them.


We own.  We pay the tax when we stay.  We don't let it bother us.  Hawaii is worth it.


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## Seaport104 (May 13, 2018)

Sapper said:


> The TAT.  IF I owned there, I would be very unhappy with the state of Hawaii putting that tax on my owned unit.



TAT is collected even if you own there. It is not a resort fee but a government tax the resort is required to collect and remit to the government. Aruba has a similar tax and owners pay it even when using their own week. I read somewhere that the US Virgin Islands just implemented a similar tax on timeshare stays.

I just came back from Hilton Lagoon Tower and they charged the following daily TAT tax

Studio $5.33
2 BR  $11.75
3 BR $17.76


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## Tamaradarann (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Taxation with out representation?  I think this was one of the causes of a little war back in 1776.  UNLESS, did the timeshare owners have a vote and agree to pay this tax?



As I stated above the resort fees are on non owners exchanging into a resort and the timeshare owners love it.  However, the occupancy tax was levied by the State of Hawaii on ALL TIMESHARE OCCUPANCY.  The timeshare owners had no say in the tax.  The citizens of Hawaii love it.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> As I stated above the resort fees are on non owners exchanging into a resort and the timeshare owners love it.  However, the occupancy tax was levied by the State of Hawaii on ALL TIMESHARE OCCUPANCY.  The timeshare owners had no say in the tax.  The citizens of Hawaii love it.



No one is talking about resort fees. We are talking about tax levied against owners with out their consent. 

"Taxation with out representation is tyranny"
 - James Otis, 1761


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## brp (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> No one is talking about resort fees. We are talking about tax levied against owners with out their consent.



I thought that the Association (in which anyone can participate) were the representatives in this case. Also, this tax was likely in the documents for the property purchase and (assuming that this is the case), wouldn't singing those documents equate to consent?

Cheers.


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## Arimaas (May 14, 2018)

Totally understand where you are coming from, @Sapper. I have a hard time though relating it to the American revolution however, lol. Talk to any residents of DC about taxation without representation. 

You are already paying property tax on your ownership, why another tax? It sucks, but I guess they do it because They can and it makes sense for the residents (which 1 in 6 live in poverty) to pass the tax on to the tourists who can probably afford the $11/night tax. I guess with the proliferation of a timeshares, it makes sense, even if you are a property owner. Let’s be honest, even though you have a deed and are an owner at a timeshare, it’s not quite the same as owning a vacation home. I know we are “owners” but are we Really “owners”?

Btw Americans weren’t all that nice to the native Hawaiians when we started settling the islands. Maybe we shouldn’t cry tyranny.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 14, 2018)

The Hawaii lodging tax is small enough that it does not really bother me.   As for the taxation without representation issue, that happens all the times.  I stayed in New York last month,  there was a tax on my Hotel room and i did not vote for that.  Same as sales tax if i drive to a different state or even county.  Airports and rental cars often have taxes levied to pay for the facilities or even general city funds.  

Even with property taxes,  if you own a vacation house or timeshare in a different location than where you live, you don't vote on those taxes.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

brp said:


> I thought that the Association (in which anyone can participate) were the representatives in this case. Also, this tax was likely in the documents for the property purchase and (assuming that this is the case), wouldn't singing those documents equate to consent?
> 
> Cheers.



Beyond the closing docs stating you are on the hook for taxes, I doubt they outline what the specific taxes are or what they go for (ie, it's not going to break out specific tax bonds, school taxes, etc) in the purchase docs.  Besides, most of the timeshares were there long before the TAT as it's relatively recent (I think under ten years old).


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> Totally understand where you are coming from, @Sapper. I have a hard time though relating it to the American revolution however, lol. Talk to any residents of DC about taxation without representation.
> 
> You are already paying property tax on your ownership, why another tax? It sucks, but I guess they do it because They can and it makes sense for the residents (which 1 in 6 live in poverty) to pass the tax on to the tourists who can probably afford the $11/night tax. I guess with the proliferation of a timeshares, it makes sense, even if you are a property owner. Let’s be honest, even though you have a deed and are an owner at a timeshare, it’s not quite the same as owning a vacation home. I know we are “owners” but are we Really “owners”?
> 
> Btw Americans weren’t all that nice to the native Hawaiians when we started settling the islands. Maybe we shouldn’t cry tyranny.



I get it, the revolution was a long time ago... however, that does not mean that the founding principles of this country no longer matter.

The tax is because the government can impose it with impunity.

So... this is revenge on the mainlanders?  HAHA, I kind of like that idea, but for it to be correct, they would not be charging the owners (as the owners already share a stake in the community), but doubling or tripling the tax on tourists... which I'd be ok with.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> The Hawaii lodging tax is small enough that it does not really bother me.   As for the taxation without representation issue, that happens all the times.  I stayed in New York last month,  there was a tax on my Hotel room and i did not vote for that.  Same as sales tax if i drive to a different state or even county.  Airports and rental cars often have taxes levied to pay for the facilities or even general city funds.
> 
> Even with property taxes,  if you own a vacation house or timeshare in a different location than where you live, you don't vote on those taxes.



SO... you OWN in New York?  NO, then your argument does not fit the conversation.

Your broad statement is not correct.  There are a number of states which allow suffrage for non-residents. To see where a lawsuit upheld the voting rights of non-residents, please see May Vs Town of Mountain Village (1996).

I am guessing if things continue like they are in Hawaii, at some point there will be a hungry lawyer who will create a class action lawsuit.  Hopefully it will have the same results as the one cited above.


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## Arimaas (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> I get it, the revolution was a long time ago... however, that does not mean that the founding principles of this country no longer matter.
> 
> The tax is because the government can impose it with impunity.
> 
> So... this is revenge on the mainlanders?  HAHA, I kind of like that idea, but for it to be correct, they would not be charging the owners (as the owners already share a stake in the community), but doubling or tripling the tax on tourists... which I'd be ok with.



Lol, not revenge. But hard to cry tyranny on an $11 a day tax aimed at foreigners especially given how the  Haoles have treated the natives.

I understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate the sentiment. I too don't want to pay anymore money considering it's a timeshare and I own it. But I wouldn't quite consider it taxation passed with out impunity. Go look up the legislative history of the tax law. I'm sure it was voted on by the elected officials of Hawaii. If you're a Hawaii owner and the jurisdiction allows non resident property owners to register to vote, register to vote there and make sure you're there or have an absente ballet for the next election. Just don't vote in the same election (e.g. Presidential) in two different jurisdictions.  No one is telling you you can't get your representation.  There's no difference between this and a tax passed on a public utility used by those living in Hawaii.

IMHO, it's only taxation without representation if you're a resident and you don't get the right to vote. Non residents are not garunteed voting rights.


PS found this paper online. Pretty heavy into the economics formulas. http://uhero.hawaii.edu/assets/UHERO_WP2008-02.pdf


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## geist1223 (May 14, 2018)

Many States, Counties, and/or Cities have TOT's. This is not only in Hawaii. It is not a new phenomen. Some Worldmarks have TOT's most do not. Some in California do some do not. All Worldmark's in Washington have TOT's. Just like some States have a Sales Tax and some do not. Do you also feel that sales tax is a tax without representation. Some States have an income tax some do not.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> Lol, not revenge. But hard to cry tyranny on an $11 a day tax aimed at foreigners especially given how the  Haoles have treated the natives.
> 
> I understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate the sentiment. I too don't want to pay anymore money considering it's a timeshare and I own it. But I wouldn't quite consider it taxation passed with out impunity. Go look up the legislative history of the tax law. I'm sure it was voted on by the elected officials of Hawaii. If you're a Hawaii owner, register to vote there and make sure you're there or have an absente ballet for the next election. Just don't vote in the same election (e.g. Presidential) in two different jurisdictions.  No one is telling you you can't get your representation.  There's no difference between this and a tax passed on a public utility used by those living in Hawaii.



It's not really the dollar figure that is irritating me, but the ethical conflict that an American government has levied a tax with out consent, and specifically targeted a group who it knows cannot currently do anything about it because of a disenfranchised status.  It feels wrong.


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## Arimaas (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> It's not really the dollar figure that is irritating me, but the ethical conflict that an American government has levied a tax with out consent, and specifically targeted a group who it knows cannot currently do anything about it because of a disenfranchised status.  It feels wrong.



Without who's consent? There must be some legislative history behind it. Someone had to propose it and vote on it. It just wasn't you or me. Btw from the reading it's supposed to sunset in 2030 (right......). And there is something you can do about it, don't visit Hawaii. Personally, I don't like the tax, but think they are wise. Using their natural resources (tourism) to generate funding for their public transportation. The residents are thrilled I'm sure.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> Many States, Counties, and/or Cities have TOT's. This is not only in Hawaii. It is not a new phenomen. Some Worldmarks have TOT's most do not. Some in California do some do not. All Worldmark's in Washington have TOT's. Just like some States have a Sales Tax and some do not. Do you also feel that sales tax is a tax without representation. Some States have an income tax some do not.



My understanding is Hawaii stands alone on the taxing of individuals who own deeded timeshares in this specific way.  I do not know the specific example of Worldmark, but my guess is that Worldmark is a points program where you do not own the specific deed in the property. 

Your other tax examples fail because the tax is at the consent of the governed.  The people have allowed a sales tax or income tax to exist.  The owners of Hawaii timeshares did not give their consent.


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## Sapper (May 14, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> Without who's consent? There must be some legislative history behind it. Someone had to propose it and vote on it. It just wasn't you or me. Btw from the reading it's supposed to sunset in 2030 (right......). And there is something you can do about it, don't visit Hawaii. Personally, I don't like the tax, but think they are wise. Using their natural resources (tourism) to generate funding for their public transportation. The residents are thrilled I'm sure.



Consent of the property owners.  Yeah, I'm sure the locals, or their elected officials, wrote it up and voted it into existence.  Because the property owners cannot vote, the elected folk knew it would be ok.  Their jobs are secure, and it gains additional revenue with out taxing the people who can vote them out.  What this really comes down to, and I have spent the last several hours reading about it, is the disenfranchisement of non-resident property owners.  It's a bigger issue than I had originally realized when I wrote my first message last night.  I have learned a lot through this reading, and feel like this will be an issue for our country as we continue to grow, increase economic wealth, and also as technology allows us to move more easily as a population. 

Below is a link which sums up what I have been trying to argue here.  I don't have the time to continue the discussion, so will not continue to post on this topic.  Thanks.

https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstr....cgi?article=1828&context=faculty_scholarship


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## Luanne (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> My understanding is Hawaii stands alone on the taxing of individuals who own deeded timeshares in this specific way.  I do not know the specific example of Worldmark, but my guess is that Worldmark is a points program where you do not own the specific deed in the property.
> 
> Your other tax examples fail because the tax is at the consent of the governed.  The people have allowed a sales tax or income tax to exist.  The owners of Hawaii timeshares did not give their consent.


I don't remember the entire history of the TAT, but your comment about timeshare owners not giving their consent is a bit odd.  There was a vote, I believe, but since most timeshare owners are not residents of Hawaii, we couldn't vote.  Just like I can't vote on measures in other states, or even cities within my own state, that might affect me when I visit.  Even if timeshare owners had been allowed to vote it's probable the tax would have passed.  Still taxation without representation?


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## eabishop2 (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> ... To see where a lawsuit upheld the voting rights of non-residents, please see May Vs Town of Mountain Village (1996).
> 
> I am guessing if things continue like they are in Hawaii, at some point there will be a hungry lawyer who will create a class action lawsuit.  Hopefully it will have the same results as the one cited above.



I took your suggestion and read the case you referenced. I think you may need to read it again to get a better understanding of the issue. The lawsuit did not "uphold the voting rights of non-residents". The non-residents have no such right, it was never asserted in this case and therefore it was not upheld. At issue was the right of *the resident voters* under Colorado state law, the Colorado Constitution and legal precedent surrounding the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment to the US Constitution to EXPAND the franchise to non-resident property owners in certain situations. The resident voters CHOSE to do this, and their right to do that was upheld in May vs Town of Mountain Village. This is not a trivial distinction.

Equating your requirement to pay a tax passed by the duly elected government of a state where you do not live but chose to buy property with tyranny is the height of hyperbole and does not stand up to any level of critical analysis.

"Class action" lawsuits have nothing to do with voting rights, taxation or tyranny.


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## dioxide45 (May 14, 2018)

Sapper said:


> It's not really the dollar figure that is irritating me, but the ethical conflict that an American government has levied a tax with out consent, and specifically targeted a group who it knows cannot currently do anything about it because of a disenfranchised status.  It feels wrong.


You can do something about it. Either sell your timeshare weeks, or don't go to Hawaii. If they increase the tax high enough, they will drive away tourists. Right now they do it because they can get away with it and people will pay it. It may not be that way forever.


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## Tamaradarann (May 14, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> The Hawaii lodging tax is small enough that it does not really bother me.   As for the taxation without representation issue, that happens all the times.  I stayed in New York last month,  there was a tax on my Hotel room and i did not vote for that.  Same as sales tax if i drive to a different state or even county.  Airports and rental cars often have taxes levied to pay for the facilities or even general city funds.
> 
> Even with property taxes,  if you own a vacation house or timeshare in a different location than where you live, you don't vote on those taxes.



These are two different perspectives on the TAT:  A number of years ago I sent a note to the Hawaii Legislature House member from the Waikiki area protesting the TAT.  My position on it was that the timeshare already pays property tax like a whole owner so that the TAT shouldn't even exists.  That position is from the property owners perspective and I believe it has some validity.

However, this is another point of view.  Timeshares are usually looked at as temporary housing similar to hotels or short term rentals which timeshare salespeople use as the cost/benefit reason to buy.  The hotel tax in Hawaii, which short term rentals also have to pay is 14%.  If timeshare occupants had to pay 14% of the value of the accommodations that they stay in instead of the $5-15 per night that they do it would be about $42/night for a Studio valued at $300/night to $210 for a 3 BR valued at $1500/night.


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## dioxide45 (May 14, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> However, this is another point of view. Timeshares are usually looked at as temporary housing similar to hotels or short term rentals which timeshare salespeople use as the cost/benefit reason to buy. The hotel tax in Hawaii, which short term rentals also have to pay is 14%. If timeshare occupants had to pay 14% of the value of the accommodations that they stay in instead of the $5-15 per night that they do it would be about $42/night for a Studio valued at $300/night to $210 for a 3 BR valued at $1500/night.


You better delete this part, you are giving the state of Hawaii too many ideas...


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## Arimaas (May 15, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Consent of the property owners.  Yeah, I'm sure the locals, or their elected officials, wrote it up and voted it into existence.  Because the property owners cannot vote, the elected folk knew it would be ok.  Their jobs are secure, and it gains additional revenue with out taxing the people who can vote them out.  What this really comes down to, and I have spent the last several hours reading about it, is the disenfranchisement of non-resident property owners.  It's a bigger issue than I had originally realized when I wrote my first message last night.  I have learned a lot through this reading, and feel like this will be an issue for our country as we continue to grow, increase economic wealth, and also as technology allows us to move more easily as a population.
> 
> Below is a link which sums up what I have been trying to argue here.  I don't have the time to continue the discussion, so will not continue to post on this topic.  Thanks.
> 
> https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstr....cgi?article=1828&context=faculty_scholarship



Lol I read enough 40 page legal briefs in law school. I’m gonna skip this one. I know you’re not replying anymore, but just wanted to say I don’t think this “problem” is on many people’s radar. Between homelessness, opioid addiction, gun violence, etc. I’m sure the money non resident property owners pay for the luxury of staying in their timeshare is not quite the top of anyone’s priority list.

As an aside, what the government will end up doing anyway is passing some bill that says a fractional property ownership isn’t considered a property owner for voting rights (and honestly shouldn’t be. You occupy a studio - 3br apartment for 1/52 of a year (and some years you don’t even make it there) - you really think you share a vested interest with those residents who send their kids to school there, drive the local roads, shop at the store, call 9-1-1, use public transit, etc).


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## CiCi (May 26, 2018)

CiCi said:


> In looking at my upcoming reservations in Hawaii, there is a “Resort Update” at the top of the screen informing me, “The state of Hawaii assesses a lodging tax to guests staying at these resorts. A deposit of $250 for incidentals is required at check in.”
> 
> Does anyone know anything more about these taxes? Are they $250 or will I get some of that back?
> 
> ...



Thanks everyone for the great responses. 

We just returned and ended up being charged about $10/day tax on all of the reservations, which was fine. 

CiCi


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## Tamaradarann (May 27, 2018)

CiCi said:


> Thanks everyone for the great responses.
> 
> We just returned and ended up being charged about $10/day tax on all of the reservations, which was fine.
> 
> ...



$10/day is a relatively small amount when compared to what I am going to put forth.  I have been looking at a possible 3 day quick trip to Atlantic City which is relatively easy drive from where we live.  The advertised price is $89/night at Caesars Resort and Casino which is right on the Boardwalk in June.  That sounded great.  $89 X 3 is $267.  Well after the hotel tax and resort fees it came out to be $402.  That is $135 extra for 3 nights or $45/night extra. To me that is something to complain about and we are not booking so the room can stay empty.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (May 27, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> Lol I read enough 40 page legal briefs in law school. I’m gonna skip this one. I know you’re not replying anymore, but just wanted to say I don’t think this “problem” is on many people’s radar. Between homelessness, opioid addiction, gun violence, etc. I’m sure the money non resident property owners pay for the luxury of staying in their timeshare is not quite the top of anyone’s priority list.
> 
> As an aside, what the government will end up doing anyway is passing some bill that says a fractional property ownership isn’t considered a property owner for voting rights (and honestly shouldn’t be. You occupy a studio - 3br apartment for 1/52 of a year (and some years you don’t even make it there) - you really think you share a vested interest with those residents who send their kids to school there, drive the local roads, shop at the store, call 9-1-1, use public transit, etc).



But that isn't correct. For the period of the stay, you are using the local roads, shopping at the local stores, using public transport, and (hopefully not) using 9-1-1. TANSTAAFL.

If Hawaii had rolled the tax into the property tax, nobody would be complaining. (Nobody would be noticing.) Separating it out was bad PR. I consider it a PR issue, not a voting rights issue. I volunteered for taxation without representation when I bought a Hawaiian timeshare, eyes open and fully aware.


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## Tamaradarann (May 28, 2018)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> But that isn't correct. For the period of the stay, you are using the local roads, shopping at the local stores, using public transport, and (hopefully not) using 9-1-1. TANSTAAFL.
> 
> If Hawaii had rolled the tax into the property tax, nobody would be complaining. (Nobody would be noticing.) Separating it out was bad PR. I consider it a PR issue, not a voting rights issue. I volunteered for taxation without representation when I bought a Hawaiian timeshare, eyes open and fully aware.



Yes, it is bad PR for timeshare owners and exchangers.  However, good PR for the residents of Hawaii who are the voters. 

The thinking is probably the same with the resort fees.  The resort fees for non-owners of a resort or resort system who exchange in is another example of taxing those who don't pay maintenance and can't vote.  The owners who have to pay the maintenance love it.

Also, in the related hotel world where ownership or membership is not a issue but selling the nightly reservations is, the resort fee is a way to advertise a low nightly rate, then get the rate that they want in the resort fee back door.


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## brp (May 29, 2018)

CiCi said:


> Thanks everyone for the great responses.
> 
> We just returned and ended up being charged about $10/day tax on all of the reservations, which was fine.
> 
> ...



We just got back yesterday from a stay in Maui for a Westin timehare deal. I was surprised that the occupancy tax was only $1.25/night. Maybe this is country/island-based?

They did have a $30/day resort fee, but I doubt that they'd hide any taxes in there, preferring to keep that all for themselves.

Cheers.


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## dioxide45 (May 29, 2018)

brp said:


> We just got back yesterday from a stay in Maui for a Westin timehare deal. I was surprised that the occupancy tax was only $1.25/night. Maybe this is country/island-based?
> 
> They did have a $30/day resort fee, but I doubt that they'd hide any taxes in there, preferring to keep that all for themselves.
> 
> Cheers.


Were you staying on a SPG points stay, paying cash or Explorer Package


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## brp (May 29, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> Were you staying on a SPG points stay, paying cash or Explorer Package



It was a reduced cash rate based on having to spend 90 minutes with the sales folks . But it was a prepaid pure cash rate.

Cheers.


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## dioxide45 (May 29, 2018)

brp said:


> It was a reduced cash rate based on having to spend 90 minutes with the sales folks . But it was a prepaid pure cash rate.
> 
> Cheers.


The rate also varies by unit size. Also, the taxes are calculated differently for cash bases stays vs timeshare based stays.


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## Tamaradarann (May 31, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> The rate also varies by unit size. Also, the taxes are calculated differently for cash bases stays vs timeshare based stays.



They may not even use the size of the units for cash based stays.  It may be based on the cost of the accommodations.  Therefore, the amount was so low.

That $30/night resort fee is even more than the $25/night I will be paying next April.  It is excessive and the costs for the stuff that you really want, ie. Internet Service, is must lower so they are ripping us all off with it.


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## brp (May 31, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> That $30/night resort fee is even more than the $25/night I will be paying next April.  It is excessive and the costs for the stuff that you really want, ie. Internet Service, is must lower so they are ripping us all off with it.



Well, sure. But the overall rate was so much lower than the regular rate that I was fine paying it. Also, the fact that it normally includes parking makes it less unreasonable, IMO.

Cheers.


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## dioxide45 (May 31, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> They may not even use the size of the units for cash based stays. It may be based on the cost of the accommodations. Therefore, the amount was so low.


Correct, the occupancy tax paid for timeshare stays is a calculation based on the MF cost for the unit. For cash stays, it is a percentage of the cash rate.


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## Tamaradarann (May 31, 2018)

brp said:


> Well, sure. But the overall rate was so much lower than the regular rate that I was fine paying it. Also, the fact that it normally includes parking makes it less unreasonable, IMO.
> 
> Cheers.



The parking is free at the resorts that we have stayed at ie. Orlando Resorts, Misner Place in Weston Florida, Smugglers Notch in Vermont, Woodstone at Massanutten Virginia, and New Hampshire Resorts or we don't need a car ie. Honolulu, Miami South Beach, San Diego Gas Lamp District, San Francisco, New Orleans French Quarter, Las Vegas Center Strip so free parking is no big give away for us, it is always free. 

However, my point is that the timeshare resorts rather than raising the maintenance fees are keeping owners happy by instituting RESORT FEES.  Hotels rather than advertising a higher nightly room rate are instituting RESORT FEES.  Westin gave you a very good rate, but then to make some money they charged and slipped in a $30/night RESORT FEE.  They love it, but that is not how I like to conduct business.


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## frank808 (Jun 1, 2018)

That tax at grand islander for 2br resort view is $12.91 a day.  That is about 2/3 what it costs for a 2br at mko which is about $16.71 
Tat is based upon maintenance fee costs for the unit.

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## brp (Jun 1, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> The parking is free at the resorts that we have stayed at ie. Orlando Resorts, Misner Place in Weston Florida, Smugglers Notch in Vermont, Woodstone at Massanutten Virginia, and New Hampshire Resorts or we don't need a car ie. Honolulu, Miami South Beach, San Diego Gas Lamp District, San Francisco, New Orleans French Quarter, Las Vegas Center Strip so free parking is no big give away for us, it is always free.



Agree with all of the above as these are among places we visit frequently (although a trip to New Orleans for Jazz Fest finds a car to be very valuable). Hawai'i and, in particularly, Maui, is different. Car is pretty much necessary and parking is typically not free. Things 

However, my point is that the timeshare resorts rather than raising the maintenance fees are keeping owners happy by instituting RESORT FEES.  Hotels rather than advertising a higher nightly room rate are instituting RESORT FEES.  Westin gave you a very good rate, but then to make some money they charged and slipped in a $30/night RESORT FEE.  They love it, but that is not how I like to conduct business.[/QUOTE]

While we were on a timeshare trip we stayed at a regular Westin hotel. Not a timeshare at all. This hotel had a resort fee.

I very much dislike resort fees (I was contacted and a lead plaintiff on a class action lawsuit). All I'm saying is that it was fully disclosed and the overall rate was still very good- considerably less than any similar-quality place without a parking fee, so I was willing to suck it up.

Cheers.


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