# Playa Grande/Solmar raise transfer fee by 1000s



## oldbuyer (Jun 23, 2012)

There is a thread on the Playa Grande owners website and Trip Advisor stating that Playa Grande and Solmar has raised their transfer fee again according to Resortcom who is their transfer agent and MF processor. 

The new fee announced is 10% of the original sales price for owners who sell their unit directly and 40% of the original purchase price for owners who sell their unit using a broker or closing agent (Ebay etc). On a contract that originally cost $12,000 the resort transfer fee is now $1200 for an owner sale and $4800 for a broker/closing company assisted sale. The transfer fee was $250 three years ago and raised to $500/10% a year and a half ago.

Does anyone know if raising transfer fees violates the original contract? If it does not beware other Mexican TS scammers might try to do this on your contracts.

PG owners and Solmar owners can help us all out by objecting on the Solmar FB page. Non owners can post their thoughts on FB indicating if this new policy would affect their consideration of buying the new Grand Solmar development. I for one will NOT.


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## dmwalker (Jun 25, 2012)

*"Playa Grande Resort and Spa" or "How to prevent owners from reselling"*

I haven't seen this posted elsewhere, so forgive me if it has been and I missed it.

Playa Grande Resort & Spa (Cabo San Lucas) owners recently found out that, behind their backs, the Bulnes family (owners of the resort) raised the "Resort Transfer Fee".

Now, if you want to sell your timeshare, you will have to fork over 10% of the original sales price of the timeshare (not what YOU may have paid for it on the resale market) to cover the "Resort Transfer Fee". So, if your unit was originally marketed for $30,000 but you bought it off of eBay for $2,000 well, you're screwed. You'll have to pay $3,000 to Playa Grande to cover the "Resort Transfer Fee".

And giving it away to a charity or a third-party broker makes it even worse because any third-party selling YOUR unit must pay a 40% "Resort Transfer Fee". That's right... 40% !!! So, for a broker to sell your $2,000 unit, they'll need to pay a whopping $12,000 for the "Resort Transfer Fee".

Owners have been posting on the resort's Facebook page, and the resort has responded by deleting their posts and blocking them from their FB page.

Emails to the resort go unanswered, as well as to resortcom.com which manages Playa Grande.

I don't know if it has spread to the other two Bulnes-owned resorts, Solmar and Grand Solmar, but if it hasn't, I'm sure it will eventually spread there as well.

So, a heads up to other Playa Grande owners that the Bulnes kids have found a way to prevent you from EVER selling your timeshare unit. You're on the hook for the remainder of your contract, unless someone knows a legal way to either take them to task and get this reversed, or to legally dump the timeshare.

And we thought the escalating maintenance fees were bad!


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## dmwalker (Jun 25, 2012)

I just posted in the "selling" forum because I didn't see this post first.

Just so you know, posting on their FB page will result in your post being deleted and you being blocked from their FB page. That's what's happening right now to owners who try to publicly complain.

I just don't understand how this can be legal... well, it IS Mexico, after all, but heck even Mexico must have SOME laws against this type of thing?!

I guess I should just be grateful that the timeshares I own aren't lifetime memberships and at least have an expiration date. So, I'll just suffer for another 20 years. :annoyed:


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## csxjohn (Jun 25, 2012)

dmwalker said:


> ...Just so you know, posting on their FB page will result in your post being deleted and you being blocked from their FB page. That's what's happening right now to owners who try to publicly complain.
> 
> I guess I should just be grateful that the timeshares I own aren't lifetime memberships and at least have an expiration date. So, I'll just suffer for another 20 years. :annoyed:



If I were you I'd start my own facebook group.  Name it so other owners will find it.  Make it a closed group then let anyone in who wants in but if the resort gets in and starts trying to post things you don't want, give them the boot.

Make sure you go to all the forums you can to tell other owners about your FB page so they can all participate and maybe some up with a plan of attack. 

I don't really know how to fight it, this is just one of the reasons I don't own in a foreign country.

Good luck and now we have to add checking resort transfer fees before we buy anywhere.


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## dmwalker (Jun 25, 2012)

If you ask a sales person to see the fees, they can lie about it. After all, the resort is only obligated to honor whatever is spelled out in your contract, and resort transfer fees aren't in contracts.

And, in my case, the resort transfer fee was only around $100 when I bought it. There was no way in the world I could have imagined it'd jump to 10% of the original sales price of the unit! I've never heard of such a thing in the timeshare world. This is a first!


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## dmwalker (Jun 25, 2012)

BTW - In case anyone is wondering about my post above that says "I didn't see this anywhere else..." it was originally posted in the Selling section of the forums and the Moderator moved it. So, I'm not as blind as it may seem.


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## nazclk (Jun 25, 2012)

*Playa Grande, Solmar and Grand Solmar.*

The sons of Bullenes are just trying to screw all the owners because sales are not good at the resorts and they are trying to stop resales.  I would suggest a picket and not pay maintenance fees for a year and see how they like it. What are they going to do, take them all back, in this economy I don't think so.


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## MuranoJo (Jun 25, 2012)

dmwalker said:


> If you ask a sales person to see the fees, they can lie about it. After all, the resort is only obligated to honor whatever is spelled out in your contract, and resort transfer fees aren't in contracts.
> 
> And, in my case, the resort transfer fee was only around $100 when I bought it. There was no way in the world I could have imagined it'd jump to 10% of the original sales price of the unit! I've never heard of such a thing in the timeshare world. This is a first!



The Grupo (Mayan Palace) contracts do have resort transer fees in the contracts, and all this time I thought it was typical.  Learn something new every day.

Now I'm curious if other MX resorts (Royals, PB, etc.) include wording for transfer fees.


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## california-bighorn (Jun 25, 2012)

nazclk said:


> The sons of Bullenes are just trying to screw all the owners because sales are not good at the resorts and they are trying to stop resales.  I would suggest a picket and not pay maintenance fees for a year and see how they like it. What are they going to do, take them all back, in this economy I don't think so.



Not a bad idea, but it probably couldn't be pulled off as most members probably want to use their week and are intimidated by their threats.  However, when the time came when I just wanted to unload the timeshare, I would write them a letter stating these outrageous fees were not listed in my contract, therefore, in lieu of paying these fees I am granting them the rights to whatever time is left on the contract.  If they went to a collection agency, we the owners would have a good case and submitting a letter of explanation to place with your credit report of why you are not paying these fees would seem reasonable to anyone making an inquiry into ones credit.  I would not be held hostage to their corrupt practices. Although we enjoy our timeshare in Mexico, we could do without it.  I think these kinds of things will backfire bigtime.


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## dmwalker (Jun 26, 2012)

It's a great place to stay and we pretty much use our weeks every year. I have no plans to sell my timeshare weeks, but it is the principal of the matter. Every time we turn around, they're making some sleazy move that ends up hurting the owners.

There is a special place in He!! for greedy people like that. So, they'll get what they deserve... eventually.


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## dmwalker (Jun 26, 2012)

*Update: Received answer from resortcom.com*

I asked the following questions on resortcom.com and received the following answers:

*Q. Can you please email to us... the EXACT verbiage of the Resort Transfer Fee. We have heard rumors about it having been increased exponentially and we want to know EXACTLY what the Resort Transfer Fee is now, and how it is calculated.*

A. Thank you for your email.  To answer your questions:

1. First there is no exact verbiage confirming the fees.  The current fees are: Broker transfer: 40% of original purchase price; and for non-broker assisted : 10% of the original purchase price.

2. I am unable to answer your question regarding how these fees were determined, as our office has no relationship to that decision.  

I hope this was somewhat helpful,
Jennifer Duncan, Esq.
ResortCom Int'l


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## Beefnot (Jun 26, 2012)

When it's time to dispose of a unit, this will encourage folks to consider just walking away.  Strategic default.


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## PamMo (Jun 26, 2012)

dmwalker said:


> I asked the following questions on resortcom.com and received the following answers:
> 
> *Q. Can you please email to us... the EXACT verbiage of the Resort Transfer Fee. We have heard rumors about it having been increased exponentially and we want to know EXACTLY what the Resort Transfer Fee is now, and how it is calculated.*
> 
> ...



What a load of crock!!!


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## oldbuyer (Jun 26, 2012)

I sent an email to Resortcom  and to the sales manager at PG whom I've have had previous contact with to confirm the fee details. The PG sales manager said Ms Duncan will be handling all future communications regarding transfers. I can also confirm that the past manager of contract transfers at Resortcom is no longer working there and apparently Ms Duncan is the new point person.
Ms Duncan confirmed the new fees as stated above and did answer the additional question of the possibility of surrendering a fully paid and current contract back to the resort. She said this is possible for a fee of $500 for either an owner returned or broker returned contract. I further asked if this fee is subject to change and if the family to family member transfer fee of $250 is still in effect. Ms Duncan has not answered these two additional questions yet but I will update this thread when/if she does. 
If this is the final decision of PG management. I believe your next step would be a Profeco complaint to see if these excessive fees violate the original contracts that are written in Spanish. If someone has a contact at Profeco and has the ability to get a copy of the Spanish language contract that is on file at Profeco and can get an accurate translation, you can petition for sanction of the resort which apparently is the maximum action Profeco can take. Additional exposure and perhaps a more effective strategy for those of you who do not have contracts (all secondary resales) is to post personal adds in the Gringo Gazette Journal etc to warn potential buyers considering Grand Solmar that they will be extorted for life if they purchase there and as an owner you do not recommend their resorts.
 This used to be one of the best resorts in Cabo. Unfortunately it's now maybe as bad (or wost than) the Mayan sales and management tactics.
  Our plan is to use our weeks until they either go bankrupt or we decide to walk away and in the interim we will never spend another penny at these resorts.


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## Tropical lady (Jun 26, 2012)

Resort transfer fees have been in our contracts and clearly stated.  Do I wish they did not exist?  Sure, but it is in writing and spelled out before you buy.


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## Karen G (Jun 27, 2012)

Tropical lady said:


> Resort transfer fees have been in our contracts and clearly stated.  Do I wish they did not exist?  Sure, but it is in writing and spelled out before you buy.


Not all contracts have it spelled out when you buy.  I just looked at my Pueblo Bonito Rose contract and it doesn't mention an amount for a transfer fee. It once was $100 and then it was raised to $300 and it could very well be raised again with no recourse for an owner.


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## PamMo (Jun 27, 2012)

Karen, the current Pueblo Bonito transfer fee is now $500 per week.


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## Karen G (Jun 27, 2012)

PamMo said:


> Karen, the current Pueblo Bonito transfer fee is now $500 per week.


That is so disgusting, especially since these timeshares are RTU and not deeded property. There is no deed to prepare or record--it's just a matter of changing the names on their ownership & billing records.


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## siesta (Jun 27, 2012)

I would like to point out that this issue is not unique to mexican timeshares. Just 2-3 years ago Wyndham's resort transfer fee was $100, now it is $295.


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## rpennisi (Jun 27, 2012)

Tropical lady said:


> Resort transfer fees have been in our contracts and clearly stated.  Do I wish they did not exist?  Sure, but it is in writing and spelled out before you buy.



While the transfer fees are spelled out in the Grupo Mayan contracts, it has escalated from one MF to 10% to 5 MF's in a short period of time.

It appears the Bulnes' have taken _lessons_ from the above.  With the 10-40% charges for transfers, they make out much like venture capitalists do with their arrangements.  They can't lose.


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## oldbuyer (Jun 27, 2012)

The only way they can lose is if no one spends any money there. There is no way they can operate the hotel without resort spending. If the MF fees get much higher the strategic default rate increases and then they sell out or go bust with (more) disgrace to the family name.


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## dmwalker (Jun 27, 2012)

I checked my PG contracts. The Resort Transfer Fee is not included in there.

Also, another interesting note -- I just heard from another owner that they are no longer giving owners any trade-in value for their Playa Grande units if they want to 'upgrade' to Grand Solmar.

On another note, does anyone have the verbiage (in English) of the new NOM-029-SCFI-2010 that is going into effect shortly (or is perhaps already in effect)?

Will probably only help those that purchase after it goes into effect, but it'd be nice to know what is in there.


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## PamMo (Jun 27, 2012)

This is supposed to be in effect now. In very loose translation, it has to do with consumer protection for purchasers of Mexican timeshares. It addresses full disclosure of fees. Roughly translated by Google, it says something like this:

[Consumers should be given] Description of the collections, and concepts of the same, which is intended to make the consumer [informed] for the recruitment time-sharing service, including, where appropriate, the costs of the subscription/membership, as well as ordinary shares, implementation, timing, and manner of change and extraordinary fees and application forms. In the event that both ordinary and extraordinary fees were insufficient for the maintenance of the property it is the sole responsibility of the supplier to cover the differences.


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## california-bighorn (Jun 27, 2012)

*In reference to Pueblo Bonito's $500 transfer fee*



Karen G said:


> That is so disgusting, especially since these timeshares are RTU and not deeded property. There is no deed to prepare or record--it's just a matter of changing the names on their ownership & billing records.



If the time comes when we need to dispose of our PBSB memberships prior to the expiration date, I'll just send them the "Ownership Certificates".  There really isn't anything they can do that would have much effect on me. It's not like you haven't paid on a loan, you are just returning the right to use back to the resort and then they have the right to sell or rent this use as they desire.  I know some will argue with this since we signed a paper stating we were responsible for annual fees for a fixed period of time. But, if they change the rules by adding excessive transfer fees making it impossible to sell, I no longer feel an obligation to them or their made-up rules. If they attack your credit, just determine what the current purchase price (developer) is for your unit divide by the number of years left and write a letter to place in your credit file that you actually gifted them something worth that amount.


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## MuranoJo (Jun 28, 2012)

rpennisi said:


> While the transfer fees are spelled out in the Grupo Mayan contracts, it has escalated from one MF to 10% to 5 MF's in a short period of time.
> 
> It appears the Bulnes' have taken _lessons_ from the above.  With the 10-40% charges for transfers, they make out much like venture capitalists do with their arrangements.  They can't lose.



Ron,
Are you saying Grupo is not honoring what's in the contract, whether transfer fees are one MF, 10%, etc.?  Or did you mean newer contracts are changing (which doesn't surprise me).

I'd be surprised if they don't honor what's in your contract, whatever it is.


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## rpennisi (Jun 28, 2012)

muranojo said:


> Ron,
> Are you saying Grupo is not honoring what's in the contract, whether transfer fees are one MF, 10%, etc.?  Or did you mean newer contracts are changing (which doesn't surprise me).
> 
> I'd be surprised if they don't honor what's in your contract, whatever it is.



No, not at all.  What I am saying is that Playa Grande is copying what Grupo Mayan did, that is making the transfer fees much higher.  By doing this, they greatly depress the secondary market for their timeshare weeks.

When they charge, as Grupo Mayan now does (as stated in their contracts), 5 MF's to new owners on the secondary market, they get as much as an original owner of that week would pay to renew after 25 years.  Many original owners don't keep their weeks for the full 25 years.  They sell on the secondary market for pennies on the dollar, but Grupo Mayan gets the full 5 MF for the transfer.  The original owner gets nothing, and often less than nothing (having to pay to unload), but the company makes out better than if the original owner had kept his/her unit for the full 25 years.  If that unit changes hands just once in the 25 year period, the company makes out big time and still gets the 5 MF's at the end of the 25 year period for renewal or gets to sell it again if it's not renewed.  Either way, they win.

Playa Grande goes even further in making it 40% for ie charity or other such sales of their units.

Makes you wonder if that is why they left out of the contracts any mention of transfer fees in the first place.

At least Grupo Mayan spells out the transfer fees in their contracts, although unfortunately most who buy, we know, don't read their contracts very carefully before they sign.

Ron


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## nazclk (Jun 28, 2012)

*Solmar Group*

They are just a bunch of damn crooks:annoyed:


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## MuranoJo (Jun 29, 2012)

rpennisi said:


> No, not at all.  What I am saying is that Playa Grande is copying what Grupo Mayan did, that is making the transfer fees much higher.  By doing this, they greatly depress the secondary market for their timeshare weeks.
> 
> When they charge, as Grupo Mayan now does (as stated in their contracts), 5 MF's to new owners on the secondary market, they get as much as an original owner of that week would pay to renew after 25 years.  Many original owners don't keep their weeks for the full 25 years.  They sell on the secondary market for pennies on the dollar, but Grupo Mayan gets the full 5 MF for the transfer.  The original owner gets nothing, and often less than nothing (having to pay to unload), but the company makes out better than if the original owner had kept his/her unit for the full 25 years.  If that unit changes hands just once in the 25 year period, the company makes out big time and still gets the 5 MF's at the end of the 25 year period for renewal or gets to sell it again if it's not renewed.  Either way, they win.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ron.  In an earlier post I believe I mentioned I was surprised other resort contracts don't spell out the transfer fees, (or for some reason feel they can change what is spelled out).

So far, Grupo has honored everything in the '99 original contract which I purchased resale in '02.


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