# Harborside Maintenance Fees 2007



## Bulldog91 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi All,
I was just wondering when I can expect to get a bill for 2007 maintenance fees.  My husband and I are new TS owners at Harborside as of October 2006.  We have made our monthly payments, but haven't received a maintenance fee bill yet.  I thought they had said the bills came out in January.

Also, are we supposed to be receiving some sort of official ownership papers/deed in the mail?  How long until that usually happens?  

Thanks for any information you can share...

Laura


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## tsl (Feb 12, 2007)

*Prepare yourself........*

I have not received a bill.  I did receive a proposed budget that about made me faint.   I then checked mystarcentral to see if my 2007 maintenance fees were billed and it showed that the fees were not billed but they were estimated..........

Per the budget for Phase I, a 2BD lock off was about $2,200 (up from 1880 last year) and each of the 1 BD sides were about $1,000 and $1,200.

Can that be right?  Does this make Harborside the most expensive Starwood property to own?  We love Harborside but my this is high due to the big jump.  Did any other Starwood resorts take a big jump on the maintenance fees?


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## mariawolf (Feb 12, 2007)

I have not gotten mine either==I own two weeks and so I guess looks like on your estimates that yes they would likely be the most expensive.


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## mariawolf (Feb 12, 2007)

As to getting your deed and other documents of this type you will likely not get them for at least a year and more likely 18 months to 24 years--life in the slow lane!!!!!!


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## mariawolf (Feb 12, 2007)

sorry meant 24 months not years!


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## Bulldog91 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Yikes!!!!*

Hi Again.....

Okay, after posting this question today, I just got the estimate in the mail!  We were told in October that yearly maintenance fees would be $995.  This estimate indicates $1,212.  Can these fees truly increase 20 PERCENT in ONE YEAR???  This is very upsetting.  Is this normal?
:annoyed: 
Laura


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## Steamboat Bill (Feb 13, 2007)

Bulldog91 said:


> Hi Again.....
> 
> Okay, after posting this question today, I just got the estimate in the mail!  We were told in October that yearly maintenance fees would be $995.  This estimate indicates $1,212.  Can these fees truly increase 20 PERCENT in ONE YEAR???  This is very upsetting.  Is this normal?
> :annoyed:
> Laura




Ouch....I am not an owner here....but if they are allowed to increase their MF 20%...perhaps it is time to sell!

I may take a short 3 day trip there this summer to check out the new hotel and water park...or is that aquapark. It has been over 5 years since I have been to Atlantis.


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## mariawolf (Feb 13, 2007)

OK so I got my estimate also--this seems to be the biggest increase I have seen since buying in 2001--if there are any tuggers there on February 21st--the meeting is there at noon so maybe you can raise some voices/questions about why such a big increase--looks like it is just ofr phase one as there aren't estimates for 3 bedrooms which they have in phase 2.
2 bedroom lockoff--$2213.31
Deluxe one bedroom $$1150.40
Premium one bedroom $1234.05


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## Steamboat Bill (Feb 13, 2007)

ok...let me run with this....

If you can buy a 2 BRD unit for $30k (I am guessing at this price) and the MF is $2,213...then the cost per day is effectively:

$30,000 (@5% lost opportunity) + MF = $3713 per week
$1,500 + $2,213 = $530 per day

$530 per night is OUTRAGEOUSLY high for a timeshare! 

Geeze....people have been flamming me about buying High Country Club (a destination Club) that provides me access to $1m condos, townhomes, etc for less than $300 per night.

But think of the good news...at least you own a 1/52 share of a deeded real estate in the Bahamas and I am only a member of a club and don't have any deeds.


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## Bulldog91 (Feb 13, 2007)

mariawolf said:


> OK so I got my estimate also--this seems to be the biggest increase I have seen since buying in 2001--if there are any tuggers there on February 21st--the meeting is there at noon so maybe you can raise some voices/questions about why such a big increase--looks like it is just ofr phase one as there aren't estimates for 3 bedrooms which they have in phase 2.
> 2 bedroom lockoff--$2213.31
> Deluxe one bedroom $$1150.40
> Premium one bedroom $1234.05



Okay, for comparison purposes, my estimate shows the following:

2 bedroom lockoff--$2147.14
deluxe one bedroom--$1134.49
premium one bedroom--$1212.65

We own in phase 2, so it looks like phase 2 is about an average of twenty dollars less than phase one.  

I definitely think as owners, we have a legitimate request for an explanation of a TWENTY percent increase in one years time!  I just cannot believe that this can be justified, unless WE are paying for the entire new water complex!!!! 

Maria, since you have owned since 2001, what types of increases have you seen over the past five years?  This just seems totally outrageous.

Laura


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## Transit (Feb 13, 2007)

Those maintanace fee increases are most likely insurance related due to hurricains. Some south florida residents saw 300% increases on their homeowners policies


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## mariawolf (Feb 13, 2007)

I don't know exactly what my increases have been but if I had to guess I would say about 10%--if it relates to insurance that is fine just let us know==there are no doubt some folks on this web site who will be there when this meeting is held and my call is for someone to be there and find out==I will try e mailing them at star central and see if I can get a response==they also appear to have changed the due dates==when we first owned they were due in May==then it was the end of January so I also wonder if the delay has something to do with this large increase--I just would like to know what was the reason and is this going to be a yearly thing.
I love it there and don't plan to sell--I actually own multiple weeks--but I would think these fees would hurt them in selling--the cost analysis done in one of the earlier posts is getting close to what the units rent for by the resort so the incentive to own will be decreased if there is no incentive to own vs rent--when we bought and the prices were half what they are now they showed you how in 5 years you would be ahead in the cost of your vacation if you owned versus just renting--I don't think they can do that same analysis now if the fees continue to rise.
BTW--owners in the new residences being built for sale will have to pay weekly fees to use the Atlantis facilities so between that and the daily fees for "outsiders" can now pay the resort should be raking in the bucks!


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## jerseygirl (Feb 13, 2007)

I finally broke down and bought a gold one-BR premium late last year.   

The rental price for my week is $4620 ($660 per night), plus (from the website):

_Harborside Resort guests are subject to 6% guest room tax per person, per night; 3% Paradise Island Tourism and Development Association levy per person, per night; and 3% Nassau Paradise Island Promotion Board levy per person, per night and up to $11.25 per person per day mandatory housekeeping gratuity and utility service fee depending on unit type. If you purchased an Accommodations Only rate you will be charged these taxes upon check out at the property. _

The unit sleeps 5.  Surely they don't charge 12% _per person, per night,_ plus up to $11.25 _per person, per day,_ mandatory housekeeping gratuity and utility service fee.  That would be over $90 per person per day!  But, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's a daily _per unit_ charge. 

Either way, I'm more than happy to pay a $1234 maintenance fee for a week.  At this rate, I'll make my purchase price and closing costs back in less than 3 years.  

I'm not happy about a 20% increase -- but, it's all relative.  That new water park didn't come cheap!


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## mariawolf (Feb 13, 2007)

I agree but I think we need to know which line items caused this increase and whether this will end up being an annual problem which will cause this to be an ongoing situation.
I have e mailed owner services to request which items caused the increase for this year and will post their reply.


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## jerseygirl (Feb 13, 2007)

I'm glad you're following up with them Maria -- thanks -- and, please keep us posted.


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## Steamboat Bill (Feb 13, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> I finally broke down and bought a gold one-BR premium late last year.
> 
> The rental price for my week is $4620 ($660 per night), plus (from the website):
> 
> ...



If I calculated the true cost is $530 per day (see above post) to buy Harborside and the rental price is $660 per night....how do you figure you will make back your investment in less than 3 years?


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## jerseygirl (Feb 14, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> If I calculated the true cost is $530 per day (see above post) to buy Harborside and the rental price is $660 per night....how do you figure you will make back your investment in less than 3 years?



Resale price -- your guess was way off base, especially for a one-BR premium unit.  Now, it took me a couple of years to find a price I liked, but it was worth the wait.


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## Steamboat Bill (Feb 14, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> Resale price -- your guess was way off base, especially for a one-BR premium unit.  Now, it took me a couple of years to find a price I liked, but it was worth the wait.



My guess was based upon a 2 bedroom prime (non-holiday) week. What did you pay?


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## jerseygirl (Feb 14, 2007)

I'm not comfortable posting the price, but you can estimately pretty closely with the information I've posted thus far (i.e. payback in less than 3 years, based on the retail rental price .... and, yes, I know I could get a better price renting from an owner).  I know not everyone agrees with the decision not to post prices (it's been discussed on this board before), but I don't think any real good comes from it (what's a good price for one person may not necessarily be a good price for someone else, it starts a "contest mentality," etc.).    

I'm from the "we're buying the experience" camp.  I don't look at timeshare purchases from an investment point of view.  Most of the units I own were bought for trading.  But, I have three weeks that were bought for pure personal use.  If I can gain back my purchase price with rental savings in less than 5 years, I'm a happy camper.  And, if there's residual value when I get tired of the place, that's even better -- but I definitely don't count on it.


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## mariawolf (Feb 14, 2007)

One thing I have noticed from this board is that people have very specific, sometimes passive feelings about their purchases and whether it is a good or bad purchase or wise spending of their funds.  I, for one, can say that I have no interest in other locations and even though I am not happy about the increase in fees I love Harborside and Atlantis--I go to St John every year with friends who own there and although I like it there I would never buy there.  My other half works for a major hotel chain and can therefore stay just about anywhere for rock bottom prices but we both agree that Harborside will always be one of our favorites. I made this purchase for my kids and even bought a second week so that each child would have ownership there down the road on their own.
Clearly with the fees so high I second all those who have said you don't buy at Harborside to trade--you only buy there and pay the high fees if you plan to use it all the time which we do--I will never trade my unit or trade it in for hotel rooms in other locations.
That being said I still would like to have an explanation of the increase in fees this year!


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## Debbie118 (Feb 14, 2007)

*Harborside Increases*

I just looked at our 2007 proposed budget vs. 2006, and the major increase is insurance (more than doubled) and Atlantis Facilities Assessment (42% increase).  So, the combination of hurricanes and new Atlantis attractions are making us all open our wallets a little more.  As much as we love Harborside, it does seem ridiculous.


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## mariawolf (Feb 14, 2007)

Thanks for finding that info!
OK so I can understand the insurance--that is a legitimate increase and is something all owners of any residential real estate are currently incurring BUT a 42% increase in facilities use when Atlantis now plans to open the facility to those not staying there and charge those persons $88 a person for using the facilities--it would seem to me that charging the outsiders should be enough and there needs to be some further clarification of why our fees are increasing 42%!


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## mariawolf (Feb 16, 2007)

This is a call again for anyone from this board being at Harborside next week to question the increase in fees--I know from other postings that some folks from here will be there the week of the Presidents day holiday!
thanks


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## pointsjunkie (Feb 16, 2007)

*soo high*

does anyone know when the actual bill will be sent to us the pay the maintenance for 2007? it is not on mystarcentral.i got the budget for vv the same day but that included the 2007 bill. 

i hope they do not keep going up like this, our annual maintenance can not be more than a weeks rental . why own then?


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## armlem2 (Feb 16, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> I finally broke down and bought a gold one-BR premium late last year.
> 
> The rental price for my week is $4620 ($660 per night), plus (from the website):
> 
> ...






I am interpreting these fees are for renting there or are there any that apply to people who trade in?

Thanks in advance


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## jerseygirl (Feb 17, 2007)

Yes, those are fees for people who rent from the resort, not owners/exchangers.


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## mariawolf (Feb 17, 2007)

So I wrote in to onwers services about this==pointing out in particular that now that the resort was going to charge $88 for "outsiders" to use the resort that I found it hard to believe that the facilities fee had to go up 42%.
The response--not much of one--follows--again hope someone is there to find out why such a high increase and can post it here!

Thank you for contacting us. 

First we would like to inform you that the Board of Directors and the Management Company reviewed and explored all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase. Many of the fees associated with the Annual Operating Budget are outside of the control of the Home Owners Association and Board of Directors. Examples of these fees include: utilities, cable, telephone, and insurance. Unfortunately your Association has little control over the rate of utilities services and energy. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you. 

Should you require further assistance or have additional questions regarding your billing statement do not hesitate to contact us. We look forward to serving you in your vacation ownership needs for years to come. 

Sincerely,


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