# Starwood ups star options and points at St John



## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

Just got an email from starwood.  We are owners in St.  John.  They are now offering for a two bedroom lock off which we own the following.

For platinum week 1-6 and 51-52 

176,700 Options and 95,400 points.

This is great news if others own here also.  This means that people can't transfer into there with just the normal 148,000 options that all the other Caribbean and Hawaiian resort give for a week so it gives us owners more flexibility to change our week there.   

Great news from my perspective.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

Very interesting! I can see why Christmas would command a premium, but I thought that the early weeks in January weren't as popular as the later weeks...


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## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

I guess anything that is cold in the northeast is high season.  Most if not all of the staroptions for any Caribbean location for platinum season are weeks 1-18 51-52 according to my start options chart.   Here is what the email says.

More good news for Bay Vista Villas Owners at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations, your StarOptions® and Starpoints® conversion values will be increasing effective with your 2015 Use Year. •More flexibility for longer stays at other resorts in our villa collection
•More opportunities to stay at Starwood hotels and resorts around the world
•Reserve a seven-night stay in all phases of your resort in the same villa type and season you own in Bay Vista Villas


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

rog2867 said:


> More good news for Bay Vista Villas Owners at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations, your StarOptions® and Starpoints® conversion values will be increasing effective with your 2015 Use Year. •More flexibility for longer stays at other resorts in our villa collection
> •More opportunities to stay at Starwood hotels and resorts around the world
> •Reserve a seven-night stay in all phases of your resort in the same villa type and season you own in Bay Vista Villas



Hmm, so owners of those weeks will receive 176,700 SOs to spend, but that doesn't necessarily mean that owners exchanging in will have to pay that.  I know a few phases of SVR have an odd system where they are assigned more SOs than folks exchanging in have to pay to book.  Or maybe it's fewer.

In any event, it's good news for you, so congratulations!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

this is interesting - especially with other WSJ CV thread...

More good news for Virgin Grand Villas Owners at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations, your StarOptions® and Starpoints® conversion values will be increasing effective with your 2015 Use Year. 
•More flexibility for longer stays at other resorts in our villa collection
•More opportunities to stay at Starwood hotels and resorts around the world
•Reserve a seven-night stay in all phases of your resort in the same villa type and season you own in Virgin Grand Villas


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## PamMo (Oct 3, 2013)

Interesting indeed. So, they're changing a subset of Platinum Plus weeks to Platinum Plus Plus (?) weeks with higher StarOptions? I would've assumed, like Lisa, that weeks 1-4 are less desirable than February through Easter.   I'll be curious to see what other changes are coming. With the hotel being converted to timeshares, maybe having higher StarOptions/StarPoints will help them sell weeks? 

Added: Reading the email you posted (.._.As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations_), it sounds like ALL WSJ owners should get a boost in StarOptions. Good for you owners! (Too bad for us, though.)


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## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

I would think that since its impossible to exchange into there they are making it harder for people who own other places to get in because if the top options for two bedroom and under is 148100 and they are now giving 176700.  I own there and can't ever exchange my week.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

PamMo said:


> Interesting indeed. So, they're changing a subset of Platinum Plus weeks to Platinum Plus Plus (?) weeks with higher StarOptions? I would've assumed, like Lisa, that weeks 1-4 are less desirable than February through Easter.
> 
> So far, MyStarCentral shows weeks 1-15 and 51-52 (Hillside) and 1-18 and 51-52 (Bay Vista) 2BR's are still 148,100 SO's. I'll be curious to see what changes are coming...



I will take a photo of the new SOs and SPs and post in WSJ Thread


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## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

http://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/email/13-0825/bv_chart.gif


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## PamMo (Oct 3, 2013)

Wow! Thank you. I see that everyone gets a boost in SO/SP. Good for you owners! The new chart makes sense for the high demand and high MF's you pay to own at WSJ. But, 257,700 SO's for a 3BR - Yikes!!!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

No - all weeks early in the year are desirable - because of East Coast snowbirds (I think that is what they are called) - this is evident from the rent people get for their Plat+ weeks on RedWeek and such.

In 2015 - it will take more SOs to exchange into WSJ.


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## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

Yup they are snowbirds, south for the winter and back north for summer.  You can always tell when they are back as it gets tough to drive around NJ


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

Is this increase just for Bay Vista or for all WSJ villas (or is it for the new villas announced recently)?  Confused..


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

I suspect it is really to allow for the planned CV phase.

VGV = Hillside - oldest phase
BV phase was after VGV phase - and is closer to resort.


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

I guess I don't understand the phases.  I know there is Hillside, Bay Vista, and the newly announced Coral?  So this currently only applies to Bay Vista?



DavidnRobin said:


> Just VGV phase (it is stated at top of new chart) - so far at least.  I suspect it is really to allow for the planned CV phase.


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## PamMo (Oct 3, 2013)

Virgin Grand Villas = Hillside


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

lizap said:


> I guess I don't understand the phases.  I know there is Hillside, Bay Vista, and the newly announced Coral?  So this currently only applies to Bay Vista?



Oops - I just saw that one chart is for BV and the other for VGV
BV phase is still in active sales, but looks like that is coming to an end since they are now planning for the new CV phase.


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## Henry M. (Oct 3, 2013)

I got the e-mail about BV. Similar increases in the charts above refer to BV. I'm happy about my purchase earlier in the year.


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

Thanks.  So, I imagine increases will be coming for Bay Vista (just saw the chart) and the newly announced Coral.  Kind of makes sense, as WSJ SOs seemed to be out of whack with Hawaii resorts.  Really am glad I have a lot of SOs.  This might make WSJ easier for other Starwood mandatory owners (with the required SOs) to get (more availability) using SOs.




PamMo said:


> Virgin Grand Villas = Hillside


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

lizap said:


> Thanks.  So, I imagine increases will be coming for Bay Vista and the newly announced Coral.  Kind of makes sense, as WSJ SOs seemed to be out of whack with Hawaii resorts.  Really am glad I have a lot of SOs.  This might make WSJ easier for other Starwood mandatory owners (with the required SOs) to get using SOs.



There are too many threads on this subject...
Both VGV and BV phases had SO/SP increases...


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

This is a good example of why you should buy primarily where you intend to visit, as the system can change at any time...This change is really going to hurt those who have been using a smaller number of SOs to get to WSJ.  As I posted earlier, the result could be more WSJ availability for other Westin owners with large amounts of SOs.  I suspect an increase will ultimately be effective for the entire resort..


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## GregT (Oct 4, 2013)

So now that Starwood has clearly established that they will change the StarOptions chart, I wonder if HRA is next?

Marriott broke the mold in establishing wide ranging points requirements that premium priced its best properties.

Starwood has taken the first step in following suit with this (major) revaluation.  I do think HRA is the next logical property to re-assess, followed by WKORV.

Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg


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## Quiding (Oct 4, 2013)

So I have 2 81.000 SO per year, 162.000 SO at SVV, this means that all of a sudden I can't trade in to WSJ then pretty much? 
The value of my SO decreases???

Have Starwood increased the amount of SO it takes a lot of times?


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## hefleycatz (Oct 4, 2013)

I'm glad I decided to try(and get reservations) for WSJ for next year before the change takes effect.  

Lee

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## GregT (Oct 4, 2013)

Quiding said:


> So I have 2 81.000 SO per year, 162.000 SO at SVV, this means that all of a sudden I can't trade in to WSJ then pretty much?
> The value of my SO decreases???
> 
> Have Starwood increased the amount of SO it takes a lot of times?



It means that you have to bank some of your StarOptions into a future year, and then you will have enough.

It's an interesting change, with positives and negatives.  

I remain happy because I would pay more SOs if I had a higher probability of getting my reservation (because there is less competition from other SVN owners and more availability from WSJ owners who choose to use their surplus and travel elsewhere).

Best,

Greg


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 4, 2013)

Greg - I disagree that WKORV/N or WPORV will follow.  Perhaps for HRA, but unlike HRA - WSJ is building another phase (Coral Vista) and that is probably the motivation for them to raise (align) the SOs for WSJ.  HRA is not in active sales - so not sure what their motivation would be to do so.

An increase in SOs happened before at WSJ for the VGV (Hillside) phase when BV was being built.  Which goes to show their motivation is to sell more VOIs - and believe that this SO increase will be unique for WSJ.  IMO


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## PamMo (Oct 4, 2013)

I totally agree with David on this one. The StarOptions value is going up to help sales at Coral Vista. It certainly benefits WSJ owners, but that's a side effect. I don't think it has anything to do with MF's, upgrades around the resort, or desirability in SVN. I suspect it's driven by simple profit motive.


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## SMHarman (Oct 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Greg - I disagree that WKORV/N or WPORV will follow.  Perhaps for HRA, but unlike HRA - WSJ is building another phase (Coral Vista) and that is probably the motivation for them to raise (align) the SOs for WSJ.  HRA is not in active sales - so not sure what their motivation would be to do so.
> 
> An increase in SOs happened before at WSJ for the VGV (Hillside) phase when BV was being built.  Which goes to show their motivation is to sell more VOIs - and believe that this SO increase will be unique for WSJ.  IMO



And the last realignment was at WLR while still in active sales. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## mjm1 (Oct 4, 2013)

Thanks for posting this change.  Glad we were able to get a ressie for next April rather than waiting until the following year. However, like GregT said, if we really like the experience, we will just have to use more SO's to go there in future years or go during another time of the year.

One question I do have is I thought that a resort has a maximum number of points/SO's it can sell and if they increase the value/cost of one week they need to decrease the value/cost of another week, so they never exceed the maximum allowed to be sold. I guess it works out the same for WSJ owners staying within that resort, but it puts more currency (SO's) into the Starwood system to used at other resorts.  Am I missing something?


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## DeniseM (Oct 4, 2013)

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for posting this change.  Glad we were able to get a ressie for next April rather than waiting until the following year. However, like GregT said, if we really like the experience, we will just have to use more SO's to go there in future years or go during another time of the year.
> 
> One question I do have is I thought that a resort has a maximum number of points/SO's it can sell and if they increase the value/cost of one week they need to decrease the value/cost of another week, so they never exceed the maximum allowed to be sold. I guess it works out the same for WSJ owners staying within that resort, but it puts more currency (SO's) into the Starwood system to used at other resorts.  Am I missing something?



Staroptions are not guaranteed - they are part of your Starwood "club" membership - not a deeded right.   They can increase, or go to zero - it's all up to Starwood....


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## lizap (Oct 4, 2013)

That's why you purchase at the resort primarily where you want to visit..




DeniseM said:


> Staroptions are not guaranteed - they are part of your Starwood "club" membership - not a deeded right.   They can increase, or go to zero - it's all up to Starwood....


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## Mauiwmn (Oct 4, 2013)

Congrats to all the WSJ owners!  

As others have discussed previously, I think there are just a few resorts that should also receive adjustments, Harborside summer season and WKORV/N ocean front & ocean view owners.  The SVN would be fairly equitable if these other resorts were adjusted.  Alas, I do not expect this to happen as no new active sales at these locations.  

I do believe the changes at WSJ were made to spark sales at Coral Vista.  The changes do not appear to have been made based on villa sales price, higher MF or seasons as other resorts are higher in some or all categories.

It will certainly create more banking activity for owners with fewer star options that want to visit WSJ.  Thus, a devaluation of star options for non WSJ owners.

Change is the only constant here it seems.


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## Newportbeach (Oct 4, 2013)

I am an Hillside owner, and I called Westin today and asked if Westin is generally going to re-evaluate points at other locations?  I was told now by the agent, who said that due to improvements and also the sale of new units for
more substantial money this location has sufficantly been improved, and that this simply is not the case with other locations.

I have paid some of Westin's highest mf and got merely 95,700 points, not even enough for an off season Westin Maui(if one should ever exist at a discount).  So I think Westin made the right decision.  Time will tell what goes on at other locations.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 4, 2013)

Newportbeach said:


> I am an Hillside owner, and I called Westin today and asked if Westin is generally going to re-evaluate points at other locations?  I was told now by the agent, who said that due to improvements and also the sale of new units for
> more substantial money this location has sufficantly been improved, and that this simply is not the case with other locations.
> 
> I have paid some of Westin's highest mf and got merely 95,700 points, not even enough for an off season Westin Maui(if one should ever exist at a discount).  So I think Westin made the right decision.  Time will tell what goes on at other locations.



Agreed....


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## dioxide45 (Oct 4, 2013)

Quiding said:


> So I have 2 81.000 SO per year, 162.000 SO at SVV, this means that all of a sudden I can't trade in to WSJ then pretty much?
> The value of my SO decreases???
> 
> Have Starwood increased the amount of SO it takes a lot of times?



You can, you just need to bank SOs to get in. WSJ even at the new SO levels is   a good deal for you when compared to the MFs WSJ owners are paying.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 4, 2013)

It seems with the new changes, they are valuing these higher than Hawaii. A Platinum week at WSJ is equal to a Platinum Plus week in Hawaii. This means a Platinum Plus owner in Hawaii 2BR-LO can't get Platinum Plus at WSJ in a regular 2BR.

I always think that points allocated to weeks/units should be based on supply/demand not MFs or even purchase price (Marriott has done a pretty good job of this in their point system). They need to use the points to balance the supply and demand at a resort. While it seems that this change was made for sales purposes, it will have a positive effect on supply and demand. It should get more owners to use StarOptions to add supply and will ease up the demand since it takes more SOs to book in.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 4, 2013)

Mauiwmn said:


> Congrats to all the WSJ owners!
> 
> As others have discussed previously, I think there are just a few resorts that should also receive adjustments, Harborside summer season and WKORV/N ocean front & ocean view owners.



There's no property where the SOs are related to the view are there?

Personally (having lots of SOs), I wouldn't be opposed to the ability (at 8-3 mos) to secure a specific view at a larger number of SOs than a floating view...


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## dioxide45 (Oct 4, 2013)

YYJMSP said:


> There's no property where the SOs are related to the view are there?
> 
> Personally (having lots of SOs), I wouldn't be opposed to the ability (at 8-3 mos) to secure a specific view at a larger number of SOs than a floating view...



Unlike Marriott's system, it doesn't seem that there are different SO levels based on view.


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## ocdb8r (Oct 4, 2013)

*ARGH!*

I'm very happy about the SO increase but I REALLY wish they would standardize the seasons in SVN for the different phases.  I fully understand they can't change your "home resort" float seasons as these are deeded but if they can up and change SO values as they please, I don't know why they can't change the seasons just in SVN.  It would make our ability to float somewhat easier at the 8-month mark.  

I own week 21 in Hillside and it's very hard to "home resort" float given fixed weeks are automatically reserved and I can't SVN float because I don't get sufficient SO's to reserve a different 2-Bedroom until week 34 (when the SO chart changes for Bay Vista...and I assume Coral Vista).  ARGH.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 4, 2013)

ocdb8r said:


> I'm very happy about the SO increase but I REALLY wish they would standardize the seasons in SVN for the different phases.  I fully understand they can't change your "home resort" float seasons as these are deeded but if they can up and change SO values as they please, I don't know why they can't change the seasons just in SVN.  It would make our ability to float somewhat easier at the 8-month mark.
> 
> I own week 21 in Hillside and it's very hard to "home resort" float given fixed weeks are automatically reserved and I can't SVN float because I don't get sufficient SO's to reserve a different 2-Bedroom until week 34 (when the SO chart changes for Bay Vista...and I assume Coral Vista).  ARGH.



You can always try to exchange a 2-bedroom for 2-bedroom at WSJ, with another owner.


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## siesta (Oct 4, 2013)

I posit that due to increased staroptions preventing other SVO owners from exchanging in (without banking), as well as additional units added to the inventory due to the expansion, may lead to more II availability.  Especially while those units are initially developer owned.

Wishful thinking?


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## LisaRex (Oct 5, 2013)

siesta said:


> I posit that due to increased staroptions preventing other SVO owners from exchanging in (without banking), as well as additional units added to the inventory due to the expansion, may lead to more II availability.  Especially while those units are initially developer owned.
> 
> Wishful thinking?



It's certain that SVO is trying to increase sales at WSJ-CV,*but there may be other motives as well. Perhaps II was complaining that WSJ has almost no presence in II, and SVN is being pressured to encourage movement of WSJ owners to other resorts.  Who knows? They'll certainly never tell. 

But I do think that until the CV phase is sold out, both SVO and II exchangers might get some nice exchanges, especially in hurricane season.

*which means that if WKORV-NN is ever built, then WKORV might get a bump in SOs. And isn't there another site that HRA could expand?


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

With such elevated point levels, any though on SVO adjusting Elite levels?


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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> And isn't there another site that HRA could expand?



There was.....But Harborside is a joint venture with Atlantis. My guess since Kerner died, the family had to sold-out becuase of the debt and the lingering effect of the economy on Atlantis.....I don't think we'll see phase 3 ever built.


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## mjm1 (Oct 5, 2013)

Denise, thanks for the clarification.  I wasn't aware of that.



DeniseM said:


> Staroptions are not guaranteed - they are part of your Starwood "club" membership - not a deeded right.   They can increase, or go to zero - it's all up to Starwood....


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## hypnotiq (Oct 5, 2013)

czar said:


> With such elevated point levels, any though on SVO adjusting Elite levels?



With it only being one resort that theyre changing the SO's for, I doubt they'd change the # of SO's for the various elite levels...but I could be wrong.


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## czar (Oct 6, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> You can, you just need to bank SOs to get in. WSJ even at the new SO levels is   a good deal for you when compared to the MFs WSJ owners are paying.



Right now it is. Using a mix of SO from my SVV weeks, it takes about $1400 for me to trade for a 2br summer Plat week. Now, it will cost me about $2100 - and even more for Plat +. So there goes the arbitrage as I think a BV 2br MF is right around the low $2k mark. And the advantage of a guaranteed reservation and 12 month booking aren't included either. Probably still a decent deal for WKV owners. 

I wonder, if in addition to pushing the sales of CV, this is also a move to target those of us who were purchasing SVV weeks or other mandatory weeks to trade.

EDIT: looks like a 2br VG is about $2400 and 2br BV is about $2k.


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## LisaRex (Oct 6, 2013)

czar said:


> I wonder, if in addition to pushing the sales of CV, this is also a move to target those of us who were purchasing SVV weeks or other mandatory weeks to trade.



Maybe. But my instinct says that SVV mandatory weeks might get a bump in sales, esp EOY units, from people who want to go to WSJ.  

Let's say you own a Hawaii 2 bdrm worth 148,100 SOs. You'd like to go to WSJ ~ every 2nd or 3rd year.  So you buy a bi-annual even year SVV mandatory platinum worth 81k SOs with first use in 2016:  


In 2015, you go to Hawaii.
In 2016, you use 148,100 WKORV SOs + 28,600 SVV SOs to book a platinum 2 bdrm at WSJ (176,700 SOs). This leaves 52,400 SOs to bank for later use.   
In 2017, you go to Hawaii
In 2018, you'll have 281,500 SOs to use (148,100 WKORV SOs + 52,400 banked SOs + 81,000 SVV SOs).  That's enough for a platinum 3 bdrm at WSJ (257,700), with 23,800 SOs to bank for later use.


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## czar (Oct 6, 2013)

You're right, I can see that. This does make it difficult for other "premium" weeks owners who might want to go to WSJ.


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## SMHarman (Oct 6, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Maybe. But my instinct says that SVV mandatory weeks might get a bump in sales, esp EOY units, from people who want to go to WSJ.
> 
> Let's say you own a Hawaii 2 bdrm worth 148,100 SOs. You'd like to go to WSJ ~ every 2nd or 3rd year.  So you buy a bi-annual even year SVV mandatory platinum worth 81k SOs with first use in 2016:
> 
> ...



But a lot depends where you live in the country and how much you like to fly. 
Unless you live in the middle where both are a ways away HI Is 14+ hours from the East Coast when it is 5 to St John and the opposite from say LA. 


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## WestinOwner (Oct 6, 2013)

*Love the WSJ changes!*

The way I see it, those of us who are  5* elite owners (and 4* too) will have "better" access to WSJ.  Owners with only 148,100 (or less) will have to make 'greater' vacation sacrifices (foregoing vacation(s) and banking) - whereas those of us with more star options will be able to book a week in a 2-bedroom no problem at the new star option rate.  We own an EOY 2-bed at WSJ Bay Vista and I find it isn't enough.

I think it is an absolute WIN for WSJ owners who want to trade out, and for Elite owners who want to trade in.

Cheers,
Westin Owner


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## cubigbird (Oct 6, 2013)

I agree with others as this devalues SO for owners at other resorts.  You would think that they almost have to follow suit at other resorts and raise SO in the future??  It can also make internal exchanges within SVN less attractive.   Good for WSJ owners bad for the rest of the system at this time and makes the playing field less even...


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## lizap (Oct 6, 2013)

I see two groups of winners here.  WSJ owners, and to a lesser extent, those of us who own at other Starwood mandatory properties with a lot of SOs.  The real losers here are other SVN mandatory owners with  a smaller number of points. There will be more availability at WSJ in the future, but the latter wont be able to visit here unless they bank their SOs.  Also, people who use II stand to lose as there will be less Westin inventory (excluding WSJ) deposited by Starwood into II, since WSJ owners likely will use their new SOs to go to other Westin resorts.




cubigbird said:


> I agree with others as this devalues SO for owners at other resorts.  You would think that they almost have to follow suit at other resorts and raise SO in the future??  It can also make internal exchanges within SVN less attractive.   Good for WSJ owners bad for the rest of the system at this time and makes the playing field less even...


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## cubigbird (Oct 6, 2013)

You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN.  It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.


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## lizap (Oct 6, 2013)

They will make adjustments with fewer II deposits, so there shouldn't be a significant impact on internal availability within SVN, IMO.   I just don't see them making a lot more SOs adjustments at other resorts in the near future.



cubigbird said:


> You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN.  It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.


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## cubigbird (Oct 6, 2013)

So then maybe we should be picking up a WSJ Plat week???


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## lizap (Oct 6, 2013)

Well it certainly makes them more attractive and valuable... 




cubigbird said:


> So then maybe we should be picking up a WSJ Plat week???


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## cubigbird (Oct 6, 2013)

I just frustrates other owners like me who own Plat (and Plat Plus) at other SVN resorts.  There was a reason I bought those weeks, which is the same reason other TUGgers bought those weeks.  Granted I bought where I want to (and do) vacation but I want to be able to go elsewhere.  I eventually will be a 5* elite but I'm not there yet - cost to retro obviously, but working on it.   Congrats to WSJ owners.


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## lizap (Oct 6, 2013)

Sounds like you were/are planning on visiting WSJ a good bit.  I wouldn't worry about availability being affected too much at other Starwood resorts.  May, but probably not a significant impact (may possibly affect availability at popular resorts at peak times to a small degree).  Do you have to travel during peak times?   As you know, any system can change at any time.  If you look at what you can get using the SOs you have, your frustration level will decrease.. No question this is a big win for WSJ owners...





cubigbird said:


> I just frustrates other owners like me who own Plat (and Plat Plus) at other SVN resorts.  There was a reason I bought those weeks, which is the same reason other TUGgers bought those weeks.  Granted I bought where I want to (and do) vacation but I want to be able to go elsewhere.  I eventually will be a 5* elite but I'm not there yet - cost to retro obviously, but working on it.   Congrats to WSJ owners.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 6, 2013)

lizap said:


> . No question this is a big win for WSJ owners...



Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
shhhhhh.....

The Plat+ and Plat WSJ Owners really benefited percentage-wise with the SO increase.  Bastards...


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## LisaH (Oct 6, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
> not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
> shhhhhh.....



Please do not give SVO the wrong idea!!! 
I am now regretting not picking up a platinum week when a few were made available to WSJ owners early this summer...


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## cubigbird (Oct 6, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
> not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
> shhhhhh.....
> 
> The Plat+ and Plat WSJ Owners really benefited percentage-wise with the SO increase.  Bastards...




David:  I am sure that is where this is all headed......


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## YYJMSP (Oct 7, 2013)

cubigbird said:


> You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN.  It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.



If they increase the SO levels at other properties, that just sets the relative values back again to what they were before the WSJ increases, effectively undoing the change.

The developer sales at WSJ are going to get a "boost" by being promoted as having more SVN trading power vs. other locations (WDW?) currently available for sale.

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a feature when a new phase/property becomes available...


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## lizap (Oct 7, 2013)

I don't think it will necessarily become a feature of a new phase.  WSJ's SOs were out of whack with some of the other resorts, especially Hawaii.




YYJMSP said:


> If they increase the SO levels at other properties, that just sets the relative values back again to what they were before the WSJ increases, effectively undoing the change.
> 
> The developer sales at WSJ are going to get a "boost" by being promoted as having more SVN trading power vs. other locations (WDW?) currently available for sale.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a feature when a new phase/property becomes available...


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2013)

lizap said:


> I don't think it will necessarily become a feature of a new phase.  WSJ's SOs were out of whack with some of the other resorts, especially Hawaii.



True, in 2015, a 2 bdrm platinum plus (in Hawaii or anywhere but WSJ) doesn't trade into a 2 bdrm platinum plus in WSJ.  IMO, they should have raised the lofts to 176,700, but kept the regular 2 bdrm units 148,100 SOs. Now WSJ is out of whack!  :annoyed:


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## Ken555 (Oct 7, 2013)

I wonder if 176,700 will become the new 148,100. Naw...


Sent from my iPad


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## siesta (Oct 7, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
> not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
> shhhhhh.....


ding ding ding, we have a winner. Seems very logical, especially after a rehab and conversion that costs $$$. But I wouldnt expect it to take effect until they sell out most of the new units.  That way they can jusitfy the already high MF by saying "look at the SO, higher then all other resorts." Then, they can pull the rug out from under them like they have done at hawaii and wsj with sharp increases over the past ~decade. We call this the 1-2 punch.


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2013)

BTW, I looked at MSC.com recently to see what my MFs were, and I noticed that they actually put a new number in the estimated fees for next year, instead of just repeating the previous year"s.  This year the fees were $582. Next year's fees are projected to be $675.  That's a 16% increase.  

All around the mulberry bush, the monkey chase the weasel!


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## PamMo (Oct 7, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> BTW, I looked at MSC.com recently to see what my MFs were, and I noticed that they actually put a new number in the estimated fees for next year, instead of just repeating the previous year's.  This year the fees were $582. Next year's fees are projected to be $675.  That's a 16% increase.



Yikes! You made me take a look at mine, Lisa. I'd be unhappy with a 16% hike in MF's. Thankfully, there's no difference (yet) in projected 2014 fees for WKORV, WKORVN, or HRA. We'll see...

My guess is that WSJ MF's will be stable for a few years. Starwood has to sell the new units coming online, and would be shooting themselves in the foot if they upset current owners. WSJ owners already have some of the highest MF's in SVN.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 7, 2013)

Just got preliminary proposed 2014 budget for WSJ VGV - MFs appears to be slightly less than last year.


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2013)

So, I've been considering selling my EOY SVV Bella 2 bdrm platinum (81k SOs) because my sole purpose for buying it was to have enough SOs to exchange into a 3 bdrm at WSJ. Once I sold WKORV, that plan was moot.

But I opted to keep it for two reasons. First and foremost was because I liked having SOs, and with the ability to bank, I'd have enough SOs to exchange into a 2 bdrm platinum+ unit at either WSJ or WKORV every 4 years.  Since it was going to cost ~$2500 for 4 years of MFs, etc, and that's about what I was paying to own in Hawaii, and less than I'd pay to rent a 2 bdrm in WSJ, I figured that seemed like a good deal. Secondly, I'd continue to have access to II Getaways if I held onto at least one timeshare.  

Then the announcement came about WSJ upping their SOs in 2015. Needless to say, I was mildly devastated because 81k x 2 is tragically just shy of the 176,700 SOs needed for a 2 bdrm in winter.  And I really wanted to travel in the winter to escape the snow and cold in Ohio!  

So once again, I had to consider selling my EOY odd Bella, and even put it the market for a few days. Then I started crunching some numbers and figured out that, lo and behold,176,700-81,000=95,700 SOs. And do you know what's worth 95.7k SOs? A SVV mandatory 2 bdrm L/O!  I thought that that was so funny because for years we've been advising people against buying SVV 2 bdrm L/Os worth 95,700 SOs, because that number was "clunky."  Turns out it's not clunky at all! Because guess what else? 81,000 +81,000+95,700 = 257,700, which is the number needed for a 3 bdrm at WSJ!

So.....I took my EOY Bella unit off the market, and just today closed on a deal to purchase an SVV Key West 2 bdrm L/O worth...(drum roll, please) 95.7k SOs! So for $6k to purchase the 2 VOIs + MFs of ~$2200 per year, with my banked 81k 2013 Bella SOs, in 2015 I'll have enough SOs to alternate between WSJ in a 3 bdrm, and 2 weeks at WKORV every odd year.   

Woot!  

(Now watch them up the SOs for WKORV!)


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 9, 2013)

For all of those MFs spent for the SOs - would it be cheaper to rent?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 9, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> For all of those MFs spent for the SOs - would it be cheaper to rent?



Could you stay in a 3BR WSJ in winter for less than $2200? I don't think you could get 14 nights in a 2BR in Maui in winter for that or anywhere close?


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 10, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> Could you stay in a 3BR WSJ in winter for less than $2200? I don't think you could get 14 nights in a 2BR in Maui in winter for that or anywhere close?



I was asking LR what the total MFs and banking/etc costs for the 3 VOIs mentioned are? you are saying they are only $2200? Seems low like low MFs/etc for 3 VOIs


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## LisaRex (Oct 10, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I was asking LR what the total MFs and banking/etc costs for the 3 VOIs mentioned are? you are saying they are only $2200? Seems low like low MFs/etc for 3 VOIs



Yes, that would be a steal!  I'd be paying $2200 per year (~$1500 for KW and ~$700 for Bella (including MFs), but only traveling every other year (odd years).  So if you add in the $99 banking fee, that puts me at $4500.  The cheapest 3 bdrm I can find on Redweek is $4500, but the vast majority are listed at $5-6k.  If I got a 3 bdrm, I'd be traveling with 2 other couples and they'd each be paying 1/3, reducing my personal expenditure to $1500.  I'm fine with that. 

A few Maui 2 bdrms are going for $2500, but most are listed for $3000-3500k.  I'll have enough SOs for a 2 week stay in a 2 bdrm for $4500.  $2250 a week works for me. 

So my plan, as of today, is to travel to WSJ in 2015 and WKORV in 2017.  Hopefully the new phase will make exchanging even easier.  If I can't get a 3 bdrm, I'm confident that I can get at least a 2 bdrm. 

The reason I went with SOs vs renting is for control.  With SOs, I can reserve a week at 8 months and immediately check for award flights.  If I can't find any, I can release the week without penalty and try again later.  8 months is the perfect time to try and coordinate it. 

And, of course, I can still use Getaways.  With my oldest graduating from college in December and my youngest 2 years away, we'll be able to travel in late spring and fall.


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## czar (Nov 6, 2013)

Just spoke with Direct Sales about pricing on the BV units, and they have raised the unit prices by about $5000 for a 2br and about $7000 for 2br loft as compared to what they were this summer (i.e., about $45k and $51k, respectively, for Plat season weeks 19-33).  In addition, he said the "upgrade margin" was increased (he believes) since the summer as well.  He said this was a result of the increased StarOptions and the adjustment was made on 10/1 or 11/1.  He's calling me back later today with more specifics, which I'll post.


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## czar (Nov 6, 2013)

If anyone's interested, it still is $20k to upgrade.


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## LisaRex (Nov 22, 2013)

This was put on Facebook today. It's a nice overview of the island and the new villas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGNlgdzoVM&feature=share&list=PL18452A70242C146C


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 22, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> This was put on Facebook today. It's a nice overview of the island and the new villas.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGNlgdzoVM&feature=share&list=PL18452A70242C146C



What seriously cracks me up in this video - is the horseback riding in the ocean.  Almost as funny as House Hunters International showing pictures of wild monkeys in an episode about StJ (and they also showed horse back riding in the ocean). Maybe in all of my years following StJ activities - I just missed the horseback riding in the ocean?  I have seen donkeys, but no horses on StJ... LOL

wrong again... apparently there is a horse riding on StJ (Carolina Corral), but in typical StJ fashion - their link does not work - and Trip Advisor reports state that there is no beach riding, but indeed there is horse back riding... and some very interesting reviews (and responses)


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## czar (Nov 22, 2013)

IMO many of these Starwood videos are poorly done. I'm sure they cost a bunch and they could be so much better. Format seems very dated - and highlights CV very little and doesn't make much clear.


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