# Mauna Kea snow



## Kapolei (Dec 4, 2016)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/03/hawaii-could-get-another-foot-snow-sunday/94890212/

Please share any recent experiences .... driving rental car to the summit ... how long the day was? ... where did you start from and where did you end?  .... was there a specific warning from the rental company?  when was your trip?

Just looking for actual assessment of your particular experience from your perspective.   Thanks.


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## lynne (Dec 4, 2016)

Kapolei said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/03/hawaii-could-get-another-foot-snow-sunday/94890212/
> 
> Please share any recent experiences .... driving rental car to the summit ... how long the day was? ... where did you start from and where did you end?  .... was there a specific warning from the rental company?  when was your trip?
> 
> Just looking for actual assessment of your particular experience from your perspective.   Thanks.



It all depends when you will be here.  The roads to the summit are closed under wind and snow conditions when determined to be unsafe.  This time of the year you will definitely need a four wheel drive.  You will need to stop at the visitor's center for about 45 minutes to acclimate before proceeded to the summit.  Warm clothing is a must.

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/visiting-mauna-kea/winter-visits.html


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## DianeG (Dec 5, 2016)

The question for you is this:
Are you renting a 2-wheel-drive or a 4-wheel drive?

Your rental contract (ALL companies on the island) will prohibit driving a 2-wheel-drive car up to the summit of Mauna Kea (where the observatories are). You are only permitted to go up to the Visitor Information Center. This is valid year-round. If you try to go all the way up, this will be in breach of your rental contract and would nullify whatever insurance you would have (rental company, home, cc, whatever).

If you rent a 4-wheel-drive, only one minor company will allow you to drive to the summit - none of the majors will. Regardless of the time of the year, you do need to know and have experience with driving using the lower gears... the driving is tricky between the VIC and the summit.

I have personally driven several times to the level of the Visitor Center, done so from Paniolo Greens in Waikoloa Village (an easy short drive) and from the Keauhou resorts. If a snowfall makes driving difficult up Mauna Kea, it also makes for tricky driving conditions on the Saddle Road because of rain. My experience is from January to March. Although there has been snow cover on Mauna Kea on some of those days, I have never yet seen snow at the level of the VIC.

To go to the summit, I have done it with the Mauna Kea Summit Adventures. I have had guests do it with them and with Hawaii Forest and Trails. Both companies are excellent. It's bloody cold up there, so the parkas that they provide are necessary! Bring your own gloves, hats and scarves.

Their small buses are adapted to the conditions at the summit; they ascend with a proper acclimatization period (they can provide supper then); they carry oxygen on board; and will set up telescopes at a lower altitude to view the night skies at the end. In the winter months, it's not unusual to have a scheduled evening tour cancelled due to the winter conditions at the summit.

The drive back after dark from the VIC is... dark... very dark... there are no lights on the roads that way, to optimize the conditions for the observatories to do their work. That's another reason why letting someone else do the drive back is a good idea.


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## Ron98GT (Dec 6, 2016)

Saw it the other day while driving into Kona from Waikoloa, but we didn't drive up there. It's been raining with overcast skies the last two days, so we haven't been able to see the snow.  Can't see Mauna Kea from my lanai at HGVC Kohala Suites, just the golf course & some other mountain.


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2016)

My husband, who is vague on Hawaii names and geography, told me they got 6 inches of snow in Waikiki.


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## DaveNV (Dec 6, 2016)

This is a webcam image from Mauna Kea summit from two days ago. Dress warmly, folks.

Dave


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## Ron98GT (Dec 8, 2016)

Been raining all night in Waikoloa and it's still raining. Haven't heard any new snow updates for Mauna Kea, but wouldn't be surprised if they got at least another foot.


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## klpca (Dec 8, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> Been raining all night in Waikoloa and it's still raining. Haven't heard any new snow updates for Mauna Kea, but wouldn't be surprised if they got at least another foot.


We were there last week...very rainy weather! If you drive up to Waimea there's a public park near the Parker House ranch shopping center where you can walk out to the soccer fields for unobstructed views of Mauna Kea. We had a lot of clouds around the top when we were there so it was a bit tough to see the snow but it was worth the drive. Also, for another activity to do out of the rain, there's live local music at the Royal Kona Resort on Thursdays from 5-7. Happy Hour starts at 4, so get there then to nab a great seat.


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## stacey9 (Dec 8, 2016)

We just drove up it a month ago with a rental, saw tons of others doing the same thing. We were all in 4x4's though. If no snow it is not bad at all. We were scared at first to drive up it based on all the things we were reading, but there was nothing to be afraid of. I wouldn't do it in the snow. Even though we drove through lots of snow in Colorado and Germany, I wouldn't do it there since you are renting.


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## DianeG (Dec 8, 2016)

Stacey, which company did you rent your 4x4 from?
Harper's is the only one that allows their 4x4 to go up to the summit.
All the other companies do not allow it - it voids your rental contract and nullifies whatever insurance you would have had otherwise.


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## Kapolei (Dec 9, 2016)

DianeG said:


> Stacey, which company did you rent your 4x4 from?
> Harper's is the only one that allows their 4x4 to go up to the summit.
> All the other companies do not allow it - it voids your rental contract and nullifies whatever insurance you would have had otherwise.



Harper's doesn't list prices on their site.  I only deal with businesses that have transparent pricing.







/


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## DianeG (Dec 9, 2016)

Kapolei said:


> Harper's doesn't list prices on their site. I only deal with businesses that have transparent pricing



Then you are out of options for renting a 4x4 that you can legally drive to the summit. None of the other businesses on the BI will allow you to drive their 4x4 on a) any unpaved road, and b) up to the summit.

The truth that you probably do not want to hear is that there is really no point in renting a 4x4 on the Big Island, unless you want to drive where you want to go  uninsured or rent from Harper's...


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

"The truth you probably don't want to hear ..... "

A condescending statement at the beginning of your sentence does not promote good conversation.


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## DianeG (Dec 10, 2016)

How many ways I can repeat the same info...


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

DianeG said:


> How many ways I can repeat the same info...



What are the specific warnings you received from the rental companies during recent rentals and what companies did you rent from?


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

Traffic jam on Mauna Loa .... lol!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNoDPR5gCbF/?taken-by=onimon88

These guys must have cut in line. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNqehVhj1Ap/?tagged=yotazwide

And finally, Mauna Kea .... totally sick!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNv4RxdB7Cy/?tagged=maunakea


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## DianeG (Dec 10, 2016)

I have rented from Enterprise, Dollar, Thrifty, Avis... all the majors over the years.
You don't believe me about the car rental contracts? Do your own research.

Start by looking at their individual webpages.
If it's still not clear enough for you, call each rental office at KOA airport.
Again, it's not difficult to find their direct numbers.
Call your own insurance.

Neither I - nor anyone else - can give you the info that you really want: the OK to legally take a rental vehicle (other than a Harpers 4x4) up to the summit.

The folks who go up the summits, either Mauna Kea or Mauna Loa, on an unpaved road to have fun in the snow are mainly locals who use their own vehicles. It's quite the local thing to put snow in the back of a pick-up truck and take it back down. The others who go up are either visitors who choose to ignore their rental contract restrictions or those who have rented from Harpers.

That's it. The topic is now exhausted, IMO.
(The only reason that I keep repeating the same info is that others will read this thread.)


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

The topic is exhausted because Diane said so.  LOL!


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

stacey9 said:


> We just drove up it a month ago with a rental, saw tons of others doing the same thing. We were all in 4x4's though. If no snow it is not bad at all. We were scared at first to drive up it based on all the things we were reading, but there was nothing to be afraid of. I wouldn't do it in the snow. Even though we drove through lots of snow in Colorado and Germany, I wouldn't do it there since you are renting.



Thanks for your reply to the original post.  I appreciate the information.


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## Passepartout (Dec 10, 2016)

I go to Hawaii to NOT see snow. Let the observatory personnel have it to themselves and the rescue people drag people out of the surf, not off mountains where they have no business.

Jim


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> I go to Hawaii to NOT see snow. _*Let the observatory personnel have it to themselves*_ and the rescue people drag people out of the surf, not off mountains where they have no business.
> 
> Jim



You might have unintentionally opened a can of worms there.


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

I found this on the *Avis website ---**Kona Intl Airport at Keahole Terms & Conditions

Vehicles at this location can be driven throughout the continental U.S. with no restrictions. 
*
I am not sure what I am suppose to do with this information? 

to be fair... this is listed under out of country restrictions
http://locations.avis.com/us/hi/kailua-kona-hawaii/koa.html


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

I found this from the Hertz website:

Hertz vehicles may not be driven on any unpaved road or the following Hawaiian areas.



-       Sugar cane field roads.

-       Polihale State Park.

-       Ship Wreck Beach.

-       Seven Sacred Pools.

-       Kaena Point.


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## DianeG (Dec 10, 2016)

Cherry-pick all the info that you want (not all relevant to the Big Island), but *the roads up to both summits are unpaved past a certain point*.
There is a legal assumption that it is your responsibility to be informed and read the fine print of the contracts that you sign.

FYI: As well as the unpaved road just past the Mauna Kea Visitor Information Center, the road that veers off Highway 11 towards Ka Lae/South Point and the Papakōlea green sand beach are also off-limits by the majors (although paved). (This one only became restricted in the last 2-3 years or so.)

Again, this info is provided as a service to TUG members and guests reading this thread and who are seeking accurate info.


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## BJRSanDiego (Dec 10, 2016)

On Maui, if you drive to the "seven sacred pools" you will still be on asphalt the entire way but it is beyond the point that rental cars are allowed to go.  It didn't seem to make sense.  So I researched this and found that the reason why rental cars are not allowed to go that far or further is that there is no cell phone coverage and if you break down, you wait until someone happens to drive by to help.


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## DaveNV (Dec 10, 2016)

Oops.  We've driven to the Seven Sacred Pools on Maui _AND_ to Southpoint on the Big Island. It never dawned on me to check the fine print of the rental contract to see if I was breaking the rules. Who does that?

I've never driven up Mauna Kea, but I'd sure like to.  This thread has given me a new perspective on it. Thanks!

Dave


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## Kapolei (Dec 10, 2016)

DaveNW said:


> Oops.  We've driven to the Seven Sacred Pools on Maui _AND_ to Southpoint on the Big Island. It never dawned on me to check the fine print of the rental contract to see if I was breaking the rules. Who does that?
> 
> I've never driven up Mauna Kea, but I'd sure like to.  This thread has given me a new perspective on it. Thanks!
> 
> Dave



Threads are good starting points.  

The other poster made some very good points.  If in doubt, read your agreements, check your coverages, and ask the questions.

 I am also wondering if that trip down the sugar cane road twenty years ago to Barking Sands was in breach of the rental contract.  Brings back great memories.  But for the life of me, there is no way I can remember who I rented from.


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## DianeG (Dec 11, 2016)

DaveNW said:


> It never dawned on me to check the fine print of the rental contract to see if I was breaking the rules. Who does that?



A big part of the problem is that the counter staff at the majors won't go over every detail with you, as they process line-ups of tired visitors arriving on full flights. They will respond with the correct info when asked, but most renters don't realize or know that they should ask about this. In addition, what is said (or not said) at the rental car company counter never supersedes the "fine print" of the actual contract that they make you sign.

Two other rental-car-restricted roads for tourists on the Big Island to watch out for:

The access road that goes partway to Makalawena Beach (between mile markers 88 and 89) north of Kona -- it can't be done with a regular car, but is feasible with a 4x4. So although Jeep renters assume it's OK to go, it's still under the restrictions for unpaved roads.

The Government Beach Road in the Puna district (between the subdivisions) -- this one was upgraded with new gravel and grading, when lava threatened the closure of Highway 130 a couple of years ago, but the restrictions still apply.

Again, the exception to most of these restrictions are with Harpers' 4x4s. Over the years, I have not chosen to rent from them myself.
_Caveat emptor for all car rental companies!_

Here's another detail that most renters don't realize, should they be in an accident on a rental-contract restricted road:
Many local drivers on the Big Island are still (or again) either uninsured or underinsured, despite Hawaii being a "no-fault insurance" state. Other visitors doing the same in a rental car have also voided their own insurance, if they have broken their contract as well.
So although you may be a very skillful driver, others may not be, and your level of financial risk is higher than you think.


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## Kapolei (Dec 11, 2016)

Could not find anything in my personal auto coverage that excludes coverage for operating a vehicle in violation of a rental agreement.  Coverage bought from the rental companies and coverage from credit cards are likely voided.   Everyone's personal coverage is different so checking your own policy is required.  Even then, you might want to get professional advice.  And just because a web poster says something, that doesn't make it so.

I am not suggesting that anyone intentionally violate a rental agreement.  A lot of us may have other household members on a trip.  That jeep with a spouse or an adult child might be late coming back to the hotel.  Later you find out that they were in an accident in a place with only dirt roads.  Are you covered?  It does not appear that my personal comprehensive auto policy would be voided because the vehicle was on an unimproved road.  But everyone's policy is different.  And I could be wrong about my own policy.  And I would never tell someone even with the same policy as mine that they are all good on this issue.  This is an issue we must all find out for ourselves.


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## Ron98GT (Dec 12, 2016)

We are in our 3rd week here on the Big Island in Waikoloa and with our 2nd rental car company. I've read over the contracts, what there is of a contract, and I've not found any of the restrictions that a particular poster alludes to.  A lot of the roads that head to a beach are unpaved.  Since we are here to purchase a 1/2+ acre lot in Kona to build a house on, we have been on a lot of unpaved roads. 

I only rent standard size SUV's when I travel, including this trip.  Unhappy with front wheel drive only vehicles like the Ford Edge and Explorer (optional):  too much wheel spin on the upslope gravel roads that we've been on.  Really need AWD and 4-wheel drive, otherwise you might not get back to the road if there is any grade at all.  There has been a number of lots where we had to walk up the gravel driveway, because the SUV couldn't make it uphill with standard warn tires and only a 2x2 drive.


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## Kapolei (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks for your reply Ron.  I have watched a few Youtube video's of the road and I have read some other forums discussing the topic.

The unpaved portion of the road appears to be maintained to a level that could support movement of heavy equipment and construction of world class telescope. It would be interesting to have some accident statistics comparing the upper paved portion to the lower unpaved portion of the road.

I personally would not participate in a van tour at close to 14,000 feet with random strangers.  I also would not rent from a company because they are the "only one".

I appreciate any further contributions to the thread.


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## Ron98GT (Dec 13, 2016)

When we drove up to the top of Mauna Kea about 4 years ago, we had a 4x4 Jeep Grand Cherokee.  The roads were not flat and level, we we had to take it slow and avoid the gulleys. A Jeep Wrangler 4x4, probably would have handled it better, but not as comfortable, plus I'd hate to leave the Jeep in 4 wheel drive all the way to the top (in 4x4 the Wrangler is noisy, runs slow, and eats up gas). As we approached the summit, the Jeep seemed oxygen starved, the computer was having problems adjusting for the extreme altitude.

I agree with you, I would not want to drive out to Mauna Kea and up to the top in a van full of other people.


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## Ron98GT (Dec 13, 2016)

Well, today the road up to Mauna Kea is closed, because of icy roads and 80 MPH winds.

Oh well, another sunny 80 degree day in Waikoloa: another day in paradise.


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## Kapolei (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks again for the reply.  Got to respect the mountain and the altitude.  Especially, for flatlanders like myself.  Aloha.


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