# Estes Park & Colorado Springs !!



## shagnut (Aug 23, 2016)

Many of you remember that I was supposed to go to Estes Park 2 yrs ago but the area got flooded out.  

Lucky me is going to Rams Horn Village 9/17 for a week.  To say I'm excited is beyond words.  I've been so sick this year and still having trouble with my breathing .  I can't hike but I can drive the roads, see scenery & do photography.  Upon leaving the following Sat. we are driving to Colorado Springs where I am staying at the Quality Inn.  I won't be in the room much so that's ok.  On Sat I want to do Garden of the Gods & Pike's Peak.  Sun Kelli & I will head to the Royal Gorge where she has reservations to go zip lining at the gorge.  Then we will go back to Manitou Springs by way of the mountains to see Cripple Creek.  Monday we leave for denver after stopping at the Air Force Academy.  Will be staying at the Marriott near the airport.  

If you have any recommendations please let me know.  

Oh , i need to mention  I just bought me a lightweight mobility scooter  to use to get around.  I can't wait.  !!


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## riverdees05 (Aug 23, 2016)

Sounds like a great trip, talk with the Resort about a barrier free room.  As I remember some of them have steps up to them.  Wonderful time of the year, should be able to see and hear a lot of ELK!


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## Robert D (Aug 23, 2016)

We're at Rams Horn now for two weeks (got here on Aug 13) and love it.  Saw a huge herd of Elk in the park yesterday afternoon and hiked to Alberta Falls today.  Rams Horn is a great resort and located right at the cutoff to the main entrance of Rocky Mountain National Park, a perfect location.  Hope you have a great time.  You might try Bear Lake and Sprague Lake as I think both are accessible.


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## PigsDad (Aug 23, 2016)

Hey Shaggy, glad you will be able to make it here this time.  Just wanted to let you know that US 34 from Loveland to Estes Park is going to have some major construction this fall starting in a week or so (still re-constructing portions of it from the 2013 flood), so you probably want to avoid that route.  If you are coming from Denver, you will want to take US 36 through Lyons.

Estes will be gorgeous when you are here.  I'm sure you will be driving up into RMNP, and when you go to Bear Lake area, make sure and get there earlier in the day as the parking lot fills up quickly, even on weekdays.  If you have a scooter, you can probably use it on a good portion (if not all) of the trail that goes around Bear Lake.  You can always check at the visitor's center as you enter the park for some scooter-friendly areas.  And don't be surprised to find yourself in an Elk herd induced traffic jam in Estes Park that time of year! 

Have a fun and safe trip!

Kurt

ETA:  Yes, Sprague Lake (as Robert mentioned) and Beaver Meadows are also accessible areas to get out and explore.


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## shagnut (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks for the update on the road.  Any fav restaurants??  I know we're eating at the BBQ place.  I'm beyond excited.  
shaggy


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## jeffox (Aug 24, 2016)

*Pikes Peak*

Are you taking the cog railway to Pikes Peak or are you planning to drive? I have driven it several times and is a challenging drive. The peak and areas above 11,000 ft had snow last night, but it's supposed to be warmer this weekend.


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## PigsDad (Aug 24, 2016)

Cog rail is definitely the way to go, as you can better enjoy the view on the way.  Don't forget to stop at the penny arcade and try the different spring water fountains in downtown Manitou Springs.

I don't have any restaurant recommendations for Estes.  The restaurants change so often and frankly, we don't have any "favorite" restaurants when we are there.

Kurt


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## shagnut (Aug 27, 2016)

Kurt, I had planned to drive instead of taking the COG because I love those curvy mountain roads and I can stop and take pictures, plus if the altitude gets me I can turn around.  Am I making a mistake??   shaggy


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## PigsDad (Aug 27, 2016)

As long as the weather and road conditions is good(i.e., no snow), you should be fine driving.  It is a paved road with a few pull-off locations on the way, but make sure you are comfortable with no guard rails (makes problems for snow removal).  You can check out samples using "street view" on Google Maps to give you an idea of what the road is like.  The North Pole Santa's Workshop is a fun stop on that road.  

I honestly don't think you will have an issue w/ the altitude, as altitude sickness usually kicks in after you have been at altitude for a while (like a day or so).  Stay hydrated and you'll be fine.

Also, I just found out yesterday that the major construction on US 34 from Loveland to Estes Park is not starting until October vs. September, so that road should be fine for the week you are here.  It is a very pretty drive (especially the "narrows" section), so I would recommend taking it either on the way up or back from Estes Park.  You will be able to see the damage the floods did (major landslide sections, places where the river completely changed it's course, etc.).

Cheers,
Kurt


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## taterhed (Aug 27, 2016)

shagnut said:


> Kurt, I had planned to drive instead of taking the COG because I love those curvy mountain roads and I can stop and take pictures, plus if the altitude gets me I can turn around.  Am I making a mistake??   shaggy



We did it last year just before the race.   It's very doable, but I was definitely getting sleepy on the way after a bit.  The person driving must keep their mind firmly on the road, the brakes and the other traffic.  It's a full time job for the driver most of the time.  It was a nice drive, but a good dose of caffeine should be administered first.  The walk around the peak will wake you up and the drive down will keep you very busy (monitoring your speed and use of brakes).  I would NOT take a car in poor condition or with minimal power up the hill--or a stick if you're not good with MT.

I think the COG is better for sightseeing, but the drive is fun too.
Good luck!

There are a few good brew-pub restaurants on the roads leading to the park: Trinity Brewing (on Garden of the Gods) and Manitou Brewing Co in Manitou Springs (just prior to COG) are both very nice for a lunch/apps.

Have a great time.  My DS said it's been very chilly the last week (40's) but should be warming up again.  We're headed out next week and looking forward to it.

cheers.


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## Lisa P (Aug 27, 2016)

PigsDad said:


> I honestly don't think you will have an issue w/ the altitude, as altitude sickness usually kicks in after you have been at altitude for a while (like a day or so).  Stay hydrated and you'll be fine.


This may be true for some but I'd be cautious.  My experience:  I am 53 years old and generally quite healthy.  My only risk is that I am about 40 pounds over my ideal weight.  I've never smoked, do not have asthma, and I do routinely exercise several days per week.  I live at 2,150 feet elevation and regularly visit/walk above 5,000 feet elevation on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

Last year, my 25 year old, athletic son and I drove up from Albuquerque (where he had spent the summer at > 5,000 feet elevation) to Colorado Springs.  Before we left Albuquerque, we rode up the Sandia Peak Tramway to 10,300+ feet elevation.  We noticed how easily we got winded but he was still able to jog the 3-mile round trip to the Kiwanis "cabin".  I enjoyed walking around closer to the peak and taking photos.  Gorgeous views, btw, and quite different from Pikes Peak.  Anyway, we were fine at that altitude.  Then we drove to Colorado Springs.

The next morning, we took the Cog Railway up to Pikes Peak at 14,100+ feet elevation.  It was absolutely stunning and I'm so glad I went!  I would definitely do it again in a heartbeat!

However, even being a pretty healthy person,  I truly did not feel well at all, just walking around slowly at the top.  The extra 3,400+ feet in elevation (between Sandia Peak and Pikes Peak) made a huge difference to me.

As the train neared the upper depot, I was already a little lightheaded in my seat.  So I took it easy, stopped frequently to catch my breath, and stayed close to the visitor center, knowing they have a first aid station.  My son tried to hike/rock-hop along a trail marked by cairns and he was shocked at how hard it was.  He stopped after less than a 1/4 mile and sat for over 5 minutes to recover his breath, before turning back.

With the cog railway, you must ride back down on the same train so you may only spend about 45 minutes or so at the top.  The visitor center has indoor seating and a crazy long line for the ladies' restroom during high season.  So 45 minutes passes quickly.  According to the rangers who work up there, this altitude is a problem for a lot of people.

It is positively gorgeous up there so worth going, IMO, if you can.  I hope to return with my husband at some point.  Just be prepared.

My suggestion to anyone with a minor or moderate health concern is to either take the cog railway (and stay close to the visitor center) or make sure there's a healthier driver who can handle the difficult mountain roads to drive back down (and plan to stop regularly to re-evaluate as you go up).  As lightheaded as I was at the top, it would have been dangerous for me to be a driver going back down.  JMHO.


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## jfbookers (Aug 27, 2016)

*Altitude*

Drove up pikes peak about 10 yeas ago and knew I was at altitude but no real problems but spent a week at Big Sky this spring and felt near disabled days 2 and 3. It got better but I don't plan on any other high altitude exchanges. Be careful.


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## Laurie (Aug 28, 2016)

Have a fabulous trip, so glad you're getting to go. That BBQ place is excellent, we ate there several times. 

Think about waiting a few days to acclimate before doing the entire drive thru the park, especially if you want to walk around and take pictures near the top. One of my favorite areas was the tundra area and the trail through it (beautiful wildflowers in summer but not sure about Sept), which we walked to the end - but I sure felt that altitude, which is 12k+ elevation, even though it was fairly level and we had been in CO for a whole week before RMNP. I had to walk more slowly than normal, and that was my experience ascending at even lower elevations on RMNP trails - other folks were chatting on the way up, but I couldn't talk and walk at the same time.

You are really doing the drive to the summit of Pikes Peak? Yowsa, that's 14k+ feet. Be super-careful. A friend of mine went on a guided trip to Tibet (elderhostel), and had to be evacuated from somewhere up there for altitude sickness. What do your docs say about Pikes Peak?


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## shagnut (Aug 28, 2016)

OK, you guys are about to convince me to take the cog.  I am having trouble breathing when I try to walk and they're working on finding out why ( it's not my lungs )  My concern is not being able to get good pictures from the cog.  I  will be in CO for at least a week before going to Co Springs.  There is a tour ( Adventures Out West ) that includes the COG up and they meet you up at the top and then drive you down stopping for pictures and I think it goes to Garden of the Gods.  It is $119  each.  That's $240 for the 2 of us but it sounds right up my alley.  I was trying to do it on the cheap but if I am doing the COG  maybe I should do this????


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## riverdees05 (Aug 29, 2016)

The best thing you can do to prevent altitude sickness is to keep hydrated. You should drink even when you are not thirsty, and about twice the amount than you are used to drinking. I prefer drinking sports drinks when at altitude. Also, try not to exert yourself. At 10,000 ft, it takes a lot more energy to do even simple things like walking, etc.  Propel is sugar free.   I saw in USA TODAY's several years ago that Ibuprofen may help altitude illness. As with any form of altitude sickness, if you do have acute mountain sickness, the best treatment is descent. Painkillers may ease the headache, but they don’t treat the condition.


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## Laurie (Aug 29, 2016)

I remember while walking around Breckenridge seeing a couple of "oxygen bars", where you could go in, and use the internet while you were infused with extra oxygen. They also deliver oxygen to hotels, I saw ads for that. 

So obviously many tourists were needing something beyond hydration. I tried to stay hydrated at RMNP but still had some shortness of breath walking uphill starting around 9k, and even walking level at the higher elevations as I said. You might call the company that does this trip, and ask what they would have on-board to help someone should they experience altitude problems at the top, or on the way up.  (The problem with the COG train is you can't get off if you start feeling bad.)

I don't know if this is cumulative, but my first experience of an altitude issue was on Tenerife, when we drove from sea level up to the cable car on Mt Teide and then immediately took the cable car up to 11,600+ altitude, where I felt pretty weird and dizzy. I wouldn't do that again because I know better now, but I hadn't had any trouble at the 9k-ish altitudes before that.

I think there can be permanent damage from acute altitude sickness. If you aren't having problems at the 12,000+ top of Trail Ridge Rd, I guess there's less chance something happening at 14k - but often I have seen cautions at high-altitude parks for people with heart or lung disease, so I would definitely check with my doc first.


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## shagnut (Aug 29, 2016)

My Dr. basically gave me his blessing and told me to stay hydrated and to listen to my body.  I heard there was a huge rain storm and flooding today in Colorado Springs today.  shaggy


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## jeffox (Aug 30, 2016)

*Colorado Springs*



shagnut said:


> My Dr. basically gave me his blessing and told me to stay hydrated and to listen to my body.  I heard there was a huge rain storm and flooding today in Colorado Springs today.  shaggy



There was, and if you look at the cameras at the peak https://parks.coloradosprings.gov/pikespeak you can see the snow. We may get more storms today as I can hear the thunder rumbling in the distance.


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## klpca (Aug 30, 2016)

Laurie said:


> I remember while walking around Breckenridge seeing a couple of "oxygen bars", where you could go in, and use the internet while you were infused with extra oxygen. They also deliver oxygen to hotels, I saw ads for that.
> 
> So obviously many tourists were needing something beyond hydration. I tried to stay hydrated at RMNP but still had some shortness of breath walking uphill starting around 9k, and even walking level at the higher elevations as I said. You might call the company that does this trip, and ask what they would have on-board to help someone should they experience altitude problems at the top, or on the way up.  (The problem with the COG train is you can't get off if you start feeling bad.)
> 
> ...



My husband had altitude sickness for the first time in his life in Switzerland at the Jungfraujoch (his judgement was impaired and he moved so slowly!), followed by issues at RMNP right at 9,500 feet. But on our last trip to RMNP - no issues at all. It is such a weird thing, but it has kept me from booking anything in Breckenridge.


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2016)

If you're concerned at all... 

This product is available from Amazon (ship to home, ship to pickup location near your vacation etc...) or from many resorts/ski shops (near ski towns) and some sporting goods stores (Dicks?)

https://www.amazon.com/Boost-Oxygen...id=1472586076&sr=1-1&keywords=portable+oxygen


Just take a few with you and use if needed. Affordable and a good, small, lightweight safety net for limited use. 

Just a thought.


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## shagnut (Aug 30, 2016)

Tater, thank you for the link.  I'd feel better if I took some with me. ( just in case )  shaggy


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## Passepartout (Aug 30, 2016)

I have COPD, and my pulmonologist said that my days of going to Macchu Picchu (about 10,000 ft.) were behind me. So on a recent South American cruise we went to a Nat'l Park in Chile. Nearly 14,000 ft. Not too smart. I was going to beg off, but they assured me there was supplemental O2 on the small bus.  At altitude (very pretty, with wild llamas and Vicuna's and volcanic cones) I managed to get out of the Sprinter and very slowly make my way around it and get back in. Another guest was hogging the O2. We left there and promptly went down to about 10,000 for lunch. I wasn't too interested and really didn't feel 100% until we got down close to sea level.

I ordered the supplemental O2 shown upthread. Wish I'd had it along on that trip. I should say those canisters only provide a few dozen deep breaths.

Jim


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## shagnut (Aug 30, 2016)

Thank you for the link. definitly going to buy it closer to time.  

FINAL: I just made reservations with Adventures  Outwest.  Cog up and jeep down.  They gave me a discount so it's not to, to bad.  It also includes Garden of the Gods so I don't have to worry about my scooter there.  Best yet,  they made my reservations on a later COG so I don't have to meet them until 9:30 instead of 7am  Yes sir !!  I just moved some things around with plenty of time to explore every day.  Sat: leave Estes, go to Air Force Chapel.  Sun: Royal Gorge (zipline , Kelli )  NOT ME !!  lol  then over the mountain to Cripple Creek  to do Shelf Rd & then the Fall Festival , followed by a little gambling.  Mon:  Pikes Peak w Adventures Outwest  No hurry, then on to denver airport Marriott.  Tues, fly home  

Now for estes Park:  After arriving in Denver , pick up car and head to Boulder for the arts festival, then drive to estes before dark.  Sun: Craft show in estes. While there during the week will do Trail Ridge Road, gondola to the top to feed the squirrels , take pics.  Shop downtown, go to a chuckwagon dinner with a show.  Maybe find Kelli a ropes course.  A jeep tour and just take it easy.  Sleep in, eat good food.  .

If anyone wants to meet up in estes , just let me know.  Shaggy


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## jd2601 (Aug 30, 2016)

Just take a few with you and use if needed. Affordable and a good, small, lightweight safety net for limited use. 

Just a thought.






[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting.  I ordered a 5 pack from Amazon.  We will be in Breckenridge in a couple of weeks.  We had altitude sickness last time there.  We plan on a day in Denver, meds from the Doc, and now cans of Boost.

Hope for the best.


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## MuranoJo (Aug 31, 2016)

Thx for posting this, Tater.  We have a family reunion at a high altitude in CO next year and one or two of the family members may have some shortness of breath or other more serious issues--though they assure me they won't.  I'm still coming prepared with a couple of these, just in case.


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## Laurie (Aug 31, 2016)

Glad your doc cleared you!  

Can you take those O2 canisters on an airplane? I know we couldn't take our bear spray canister home from Yellowstone! 

If not, there should be plenty of places to buy them in CO if you want, or order them to be delivered to you in Estes Park.



shagnut said:


> Thank you for the link. definitly going to buy it closer to time.
> 
> FINAL: I just made reservations with Adventures  Outwest.  Cog up and jeep down.  They gave me a discount so it's not to, to bad.  It also includes Garden of the Gods so I don't have to worry about my scooter there.  Best yet,  they made my reservations on a later COG so I don't have to meet them until 9:30 instead of 7am  Yes sir !!  I just moved some things around with plenty of time to explore every day.  Sat: leave Estes, go to Air Force Chapel.  Sun: Royal Gorge (zipline , Kelli )  NOT ME !!  lol  then over the mountain to Cripple Creek  to do Shelf Rd & then the Fall Festival , followed by a little gambling.  Mon:  Pikes Peak w Adventures Outwest  No hurry, then on to denver airport Marriott.  Tues, fly home
> 
> ...


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## Passepartout (Aug 31, 2016)

taterhed said:


> If you're concerned at all...
> 
> This product is available from Amazon (ship to home, ship to pickup location near your vacation etc...) or from many resorts/ski shops (near ski towns) and some sporting goods stores (Dicks?)
> 
> ...



*FYI- You can NOT fly with these.* Pressurized gas canisters are against TSA rules. Also: they only hold enough O2 for 15-20 deep breaths. They are NOT eligible for Amazon Prime, primarily because they have to be shipped by ground. Mine took about 10 days to arrive.

If you still are interested, perhaps calling outdoor sporting goods stores in Colorado for availability would be advisable.

Jim


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## taterhed (Aug 31, 2016)

Since I started this little fire....

I don't know how people plan to travel to their (high altitude) destination(s). Please observe all rules for TSA and other forms of shipping/transportation.

In my post above, you'll note I said:


> This product is available from Amazon (ship to home, ship to pickup location near your vacation etc...) _*or from many resorts/ski shops (near ski towns) and some sporting goods stores (Dicks?)*_


 I have included some links to the manufacturers below that list retailers. I believe these products are available from many of the popular ski shops, lodges and sporting goods stores at locations over 1 mile high (Denver, C-springs, Vail etc....). 

Since someone pointed out the limits of the products and health conditions have been discussed....:


These small supplemental oxygen canisters are only intended to assist with altitude sickness or boost performance. There are no specific claims of suitability or performance.
This is NOT a substitute for medical oxygen. Those that have respiratory or other health issues dealing with low-oxygenation should NOT attempt to substitute these products for medical oxygen.
These products yield 50-150 breaths (size, respiratory rate etc..) and will only provide 'steady' oxygen for about 3 minutes. Not medical oxygen.
These products can not be transported as 'medical oxygen' on aircraft.
These products do help with minor lightheadedness or attitude sickness in a normal healthy individual. (My Opinion) A few breaths here and there will help to calm nausea etc... YMMV
Medical oxygen generators are widely available in most hi-alt locations (and Denver especially) and are fairly cheap and easy to rent. They are relatively portable and can produce full-time oxygen. Consult with a physician and consider getting a prescription--may get some reimbursement. Denver O2 generator rentals: may require a prescription, run $150-300 per week. (maybe cheaper with discounts etc...) Again, YMMV. There are also internet companies that will rent via FedEx sent to your home before travel.
If you travel routinely to high altitude locations, consider buying a pulseOx monitor (see below) and insure that your O2 sat doesn't start dropping etc... With the monitor, you can perhaps predict when you shouldn't exert yourself further, take a seat, get o2/help etc...
 Hope this helps. I think the shop at Estes has them.

 I make NO testament as to the quality or suitability for any of these companies or products.  Just some simple suggestions.  Use your own judgement and research first.... (disclaimer)

Portable O2 'supplemental cans' retailer locations
http://www.oxygenplus.com/retailers/ 

Personal Oximeter from Amazon--I got Mom one, it works great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TJH3LI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Denver O2 generator rentals: may require a prescription, run $200-300 per week. (maybe cheaper with discounts etc...)
http://www.oxygenconcentratorstore.com/our-company/our-retail-location/
 internet company
http://www.oxygenconcentratorstore.com/oxygen-concentrator-rentals/


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## shagnut (Sep 8, 2016)

I have booked several tours as to kee me from driving . I only have one strenusous day.  I am taking the cog up to Pikes Peak and a jeep tour is meeting me up top and bringing me down with photo stops and a drive thru Garden of the Gods ( No driving )  Here is my schedule and I will be using my mobility scooter .  
Sat: Arrive in DEN at qround 1130  , get rental car and head to Boulder (arts & crafts festival on Pearl St. I will take it easy and then on to estes

Sun: Sleep in and then go to arts & rafts festival in Estes.
Mon.  Sleep in then go to Rocky Mtn. Rush  to do the Top of the World Tour 
Tues: Sleep in then head to Trail Ridge Rd to end and back stopping at overlooks. 
Wed: Relax, sightsee
Thur: Re;ax. Supper at Chuck Wagon BBQ & cowboy singing 
Fti:  2 PM Rock n Roller Coaster Tour
Sat: Check out stop at Autum Gold Festival then on to Coloroda Springs stopping at Air Force Chapel  Check in at Quality INN / Manitou Springs ) 
Sun: Take Kelli ziplining at the Royal Gorge .go back to Manitou thru Cripple Creek ( stop to gamble  ) collect my winnings and hit the sack. 
Mon: Go to Tour Office and they drive me to the Cog Railway . Will meet me at top and stop for pics on way down and go thru Garden of the Gods.  Drive to hotel at the Airport 
Tues: return car and go home.   

If you notice I only have one day that I have to worry about the am time.  

If you have any recommendations of restaurants or things I've missed just let me know.  Hugs,s Shaggy


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## Greg G (Sep 9, 2016)

Shaggy,  sounds like a good plan with beautiful scenery.  Take lots of pics, have a great time.

Greg


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## shagnut (Sep 28, 2016)

*what a vacation if you can call it that.*

Lots of mishaps.  I ended up in the ER in estes ( couldn't breathe) they thought it was my heart.  I lost my key fob the first night and waited three hours before I was towed, new car (not as fancy ) then I wrecked it in Co Springs. It was dark and I didn't know where I was , sideswiped a young girl  ( no one was hurt ) While I was in the ER < Kelli went on the 4/4 tour where she gained air time and came down and her foot slipped inbetween the seat and the bar and sprained her ankle.  My mobility scooter died  but thanks to the people at the Rocky Mountain Rush , they rescued me.   It wasn't all bad.  I met so many people that had hearts of gold .  

The good stuff: Trail Ridge Road/ except couldn't breathe.  Ended up at Grand Lake where I had a wonderful sandwich & french onion soup ( along with a view ) Loads of deer/elk and one bunny rabbit. Loved Garden of the Gods and the Air Force Academy  ( my fav day ) My fav day trip was the trip to Nederland  ( beautiful foliage  )   

I liked the condo at Rams Horn . They did everything to make me comfortable  Everyone I met was so nice, even tho I was so sick.  One lady offered to take me back to my condo because the tow truck hadn't come yet.  

shaggy


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## Lisa P (Sep 29, 2016)

Oh, goodness, so sorry to hear that you had such a bumpy trip.  Glad folks treated you well and you were able to enjoy some gorgeous scenery!  Hope you recover well and your daughter's ankle heals soon, Shaggy.


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## Greg G (Sep 30, 2016)

Shaggy,  very sorry to hear about your unfortunate series of events.  Sounds like the park service needs to list Gremlins as part of the wildlife.  Hopefully things will get back to normal soon.

Greg


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