# Just wondering...why the $700 limit for last minute rentals?



## Weimaraner

I've always been curious why is there a $700 limit for Last Minute rentals? To me it seems pretty low with the ever increasing maintenance fees. And there has been more than a few times where I thought to myself "wow this TUGger is taking a hit financially." And for last minute requests there have been some requests for oceanfront, large units in prime season leaving people wondering "do they seriously think they can get THAT for less than $700?" I've been in both situations where I have been anxious to rent out or obtain a prime rental and have avoided the Last Minute section due to the limit. Not to rock the boat but have always wondered and have decided to ask since I have some free time on my hands right now


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## tschwa2

I think it comes down to the space wasn't meant for "for profit" free advertising but here are other posts where the same question is periodically asked.

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?p=343768

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12347

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?p=866509

There are probably more recent ones but I couldn't find them in a search.  

The question is asked at least once a year.  Brian has been firm about not increasing the $ amount or the time.


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## DeniseM

This forum is not designed for regular for-profit rentals.  It's for owners to recoup some of their funds when they find themselves with reservations that they can't use at 45 days or less before check-in.  If we raised the price to market rates, it would become an outlet for regular for-profit rentals, and for commercial brokers, and we already have the TUG Marketplace for that.


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## Weimaraner

It's a bummer because i've seen quite a few postings where "life happens" and family/school/health issues get in the way of a vacation. One time I gave up part of my HRA to Interval reluctantly just because I couldn't see it go for $700 which wouldn't come close to the maintenance fees I pay. The Starwood rep said I made someone's day.


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## DeniseM

I can GUARANTEE that if we allowed higher rates, the forum would be over-run by commercial renters...

Many people would rather have $700 than another deposit.


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## TUGBrian

for last minute rentals above $700/night...we have the marketplace =)

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ClassifiedSearchResultsGrid.aspx?LastMinuteRentals=true


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## Weimaraner

DeniseM said:


> I can GUARANTEE that if we allowed higher rates, the forum would be over-run by commercial renters...
> 
> Many people would rather have $700 than another deposit.



And the problem would be having too many choices for last minute $900 vacations I guess  believe me at 45 days with an international rental,I wouldn't rely on the marketplace which is fine for more long range. 
I guess I just don't get it and will move along.


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## DeniseM

But how about the Tuggers who are posting their own timeshares that they can't use? - Do you want private owners who are trying to get some money back to be over-run by commercial rental Ads?


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## geekette

The way I look at it, if you can let it go for $100 / night and it's otherwise going empty, then it's a good price.

$100/night is both a great deal and a very conveniently round number.  

If you can't let it go for that, then this just isn't the venue in which to post it.  

People looking to rent  high end would look elsewhere because they couldn't imagine getting that unit for 100/night.  Your market exists, just maybe not in the bargain bin.  

People shopping bargain bin do not want to pay more than 100/night for a last minute trip.


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## uscav8r

I haven't been around long enough to know how long the $100 limit has been around. If it was good enough to discourage commercial renters 10 years ago, then it should be good to discourage commercial renters at a higher limit now. 

I'm not saying it should be changed just yet, but a $25 increase every 7-10 years is certainly WAYYYY below the inflation rate. Remember, gas used to cost $2/gallon 10 years ago, and is now $4/gal in California.

The blanket $100 limit really favors studio and 1 BR listers (who can meet MF or even make a small profit), but penalizes 2/3/4 BR listers who might be lucky to get 40-60% of their MF.

Perhaps a _consideration _of a tiered scale ($100/$125 for 1 BR and smaller vs. 2 BR and up) could enter the conversation?


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## DeniseM

Even if we only raised it to $900, we would have 10 times the number of commercial Ads in this forum - guaranteed.  It would be swamped by commercial rentals.

So this is what would happen:

A Tugger's grandma ends up in the hospital unexpectedly, and 10 days before their trip, they decide they can't leave grandma in the hospital, and go on vacation, so they post their TS on the LMR forum for $900.  Then they hop in the car to go be with  grandma who lives 100 miles away.  After they post, there are 100 commercial Ads posted in the next 2 days, and the Tugger's Ad is only on the first page of the forum for 2 hours - only a handful of people see it before it vanishes off the first page, and it never gets rented.


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## GrayFal

uscav8r said:


> *I haven't been around long enough to know how long the $100 limit has been around.* If it was good enough to discourage commercial renters 10 years ago, then it should be good to discourage commercial renters at a higher limit now.
> 
> I'm not saying it should be changed just yet, but a $25 increase every 7-10 years is certainly WAYYYY below the inflation rate. Remember, gas used to cost $2/gallon 10 years ago, and is now $4/gal in California.
> 
> The blanket $100 limit really favors studio and 1 BR listers (who can meet MF or even make a small profit), but penalizes 2/3/4 BR listers who might be lucky to get 40-60% of their MF.
> 
> Perhaps a _consideration _of a tiered scale ($100/$125 for 1 BR and smaller vs. 2 BR and up) could enter the conversation?


I am a member since 2001 - it was $700 then.
At the time, my 2 Marriott 2BR L/O Maint fees were under $750 each and my Foxrun unit was $350/Island Park Village was $297.

Times have changed….


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## dioxide45

The issue I see is that the forum seems to be overrun with a lot of people trying to rent last minute reservations for what appears to be for profit. Those that can cancel reservations up to almost last minute and make reservations late in for bargain level points requirements seem to be able to make some money in the LMR forum. Why else would they post the amount of inventory that they do?

I do agree that the LMR wanted forum is a joke. I don't understand the purpose. Most are asking for weeks that simply they simply won't be able to get for $700. July in Myrtle Beach? Sure....


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## siesta

If it was $100 a night/$700 max 10 years ago, I don't see why bumping it up to $125 a night would cause an influx of for profit renters. It would seem it would be all relative to MF increases and inflation.


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## dioxide45

siesta said:


> If it was $100 a night/$700 max 10 years ago, I don't see why bumping it up to $125 a night would cause an influx of for profit renters. It would seem it would be all relative to MF increases and inflation.



Look, at $100 a night the math is easy, $100 a night for however many nights. If the cost per night is changed to some uneven number, it makes the math harder. The mods can't do anything but simple math...:ignore:


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## DeniseM

dioxide45 said:


> Look, at $100 a night the math is easy, $700 for however many nights. If the cost per night is changed to some uneven number, it makes the math harder. The mods can't do anything but simple math...:ignore:



Exactly - If I can't add it up on my fingers, it ain't happenin'!


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## siesta

dioxide45 said:


> Look, at $100 a night the math is easy, $700 for however many nights. If the cost per night is changed to some uneven number, it makes the math harder. The mods can't do anything but simple math...:ignore:


 Touche, my friend.


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## SueDonJ

dioxide45 said:


> Look, at $100 a night the math is easy, $100 a night for however many nights. If the cost per night is changed to some uneven number, it makes the math harder. The mods can't do anything but simple math...:ignore:



I do hate the pop quiz days on TUG.


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## uscav8r

DeniseM said:


> Exactly - If I can't add it up on my fingers, it ain't happenin'!



So $1000 for a week makes sense! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45

uscav8r said:


> So $1000 for a week makes sense!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



No, because that would be $142.8571429 per night. What would happen if someone is just offering a three or four night rental? Not all are seven nights.


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## chriskre

I posted some DVC points in the LM forum and got a ton of responses albeit unreasonable requests.
I posted the same ad in the Marketplace and got no responses.

Is there anyway to link from the LM forum to the Marketplace?
I'm not sure if it gets the same traffic that we get here on the forum.
With an ongoing link to ads in the marketplace maybe those ads would see more traffic.


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## RonB

Well I just checked the last minute rentals. I am now retired and can go any time this summer while my wife is out of school. Most are listed above $700, and many are well above that figure ~ Ron


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## csxjohn

RonB said:


> Well I just checked the last minute rentals. I am now retired and can go any time this summer while my wife is out of school. Most are listed above $700, and many are well above that figure ~ Ron



Are you sure you're looking in the Last Minute Rentals forum?  When someone posts a rental for more than $100 a night someone will report it and it gets deleted.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45


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## geekette

dioxide45 said:


> The issue I see is that the forum seems to be overrun with a lot of *people trying to rent last minute reservations for what appears to be for profit.* Those that can cancel reservations up to almost last minute and make reservations late in for bargain level points requirements seem to be able to make some money in the LMR forum. Why else would they post the amount of inventory that they do?
> 
> I do agree that the LMR wanted forum is a joke. I don't understand the purpose. Most are asking for weeks that simply they simply won't be able to get for $700. July in Myrtle Beach? Sure....



Isn't that why people are asking for the limit to be raised?  So they can profit?

the point of the forum is Last Minute.  It doesn't really matter to me if owner makes a profit if I get a good deal.  Each place has different MF.  Mods can't do anything about that.  If your MF is higher or lower than $100/night makes no difference.  Rule is 100/night max.  You can't rent 2 nights for 700.  You can't rent for 25/night at 6 months out.  

If someone is making a profit, so what?  Everyone is free to purchase the ownership they desire, or none at all, and feast on distressed rentals.  That's what this is, Distressed Inventory.  If everything I own costs me less than 700/week, what is it to you if I post all of my rentals there, so long as they are within ressie window?   Why would you be concerned that I can cancel last minute with no penalty?  You can have the same ownership.

Select the correct venue for your audience and situation.  If Grampa is sick and you can't go, is your goal maximum profit or "anything other than total loss"?

Bears repeating:  this is not the only game in town, rental outlets abound.


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## Sandy VDH

I don't list much on the LMR page, because what I have to offer the $700 limit covers less than 50% of the cost.  There is NO profit in $700.  Hell for a bunch of stuff that I would rent, there is no profit in $1400. 

I usually would have a LMR for either Hawaii or a Wyndham 3 or 4 BR Presidential.  But I just cancel them instead of offering them even on LMR.  

I am not in the habit of paying for someone else to take a vacation.

So LMR never works for me, and I don't offer what I have to other TUGgers as a result.


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## DeniseM

RonB said:


> Well I just checked the last minute rentals. I am now retired and can go any time this summer while my wife is out of school. Most are listed above $700, and many are well above that figure ~ Ron



I think you were looking in the wrong place - try this:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45 - nothing over $700.


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## csxjohn

Sandy VDH said:


> I don't list much on the LMR page, because what I have to offer the $700 limit covers less than 50% of the cost.  There is NO profit in $700.  Hell for a bunch of stuff that I would rent, there is no profit in $1400.
> 
> I usually would have a LMR for either Hawaii or a Wyndham 3 or 4 BR Presidential.  But I just cancel them instead of offering them even on LMR.
> 
> I am not in the habit of paying for someone else to take a vacation.
> 
> So LMR never works for me, and I don't offer what I have to other TUGgers as a result.



 Not everyone has the option to cancel their ressie and I believe that is why this forum exists, at least that's what I'm getting out of the answers by Denise and Brian.

You could still offer what you have to TUGgers by posting a classified ad.  That's why the classifieds exist.

I think the rentals wanted forum is a different animal.  People can ask for what ever they want no matter how outrageous it may be.  Someone with the unit they need can PM or email them and offer the unit at a higher price but cannot not do so publicly in the forum itself.

So if I say I want to go to Tropic Shores in Daytona for week 26 this year, the person with the ad in the classifieds for that week could write to me offering the week for the $800 they are looking for.

BTW this is within the posting rules for that forum.


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## thheath

*$700 or $0

Hmm?*


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## Sandy VDH

I use ads, but sometimes it just misses things that are of a timely nature.  For stuff I have a long lead time on I use ads.

I have had a few 4 BR Penthouse units that I would willing to rent but NOT for $100 a night, because that is below my cost.  

I think people wanting a 3 BR or larger unit or a NYC unit, for example, and listing their request in LMR means that you could offer them what they are looking for BUT not at the price point.  I have offered it to people, and then they have got really nasty when they claim I can only ask $100 for the unit.  So what happens I have stopped helping people who are looking.  

In either case it is not having the intended results because NOT posting is NOT either someone helping you out or you helping someone else out.  The $100 day limit is just too low to be practical and I am one that thinks an increase to $150 or $200 would be fine.  No one has to take any unit at that  price, but it allows positing of higher cost units to be offered to others at still a reasonable price.  How many years not has it been at the $100 limit?

I guess I agree $700 or $0 if those are your only options, but all we have done is trained people to expect more for less.


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## geekette

Sandy VDH said:


> ... but all we have done is trained people to expect more for less.



I disagree with that.  people set their own expectations.  Maybe people have trained themselves to never shop LMR because they won't find the ones that cost the owner more than 100/day?

what I expect is affordable last minute trip from LMR.  everyone has their own idea of what "affordable" is, so a number was chosen.  

If what you have to offer crosses the 4 digit mark, regardless of the jam you are in, that is not distressed inventory to me and doesn't belong in the distressed inventory section.  

If Brian wanted to add a High End Last Minute board, ok by me.  Everything at least 100/night, w/in 45 days of checkin.   

But I think Denise is right.  Once you open the floodgates, few tuggers will move their units.


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## chapjim

dioxide45 said:


> Look, at $100 a night the math is easy, $100 a night for however many nights. If the cost per night is changed to some uneven number, it makes the math harder. The mods can't do anything but simple math...:ignore:



Can we use scratch paper?


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## chapjim

thheath said:


> *$700 or $0
> 
> Hmm?*



False choices.  It rarely comes down to that.


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## RonB

csxjohn said:


> Are you sure you're looking in the Last Minute Rentals forum?  When someone posts a rental for more than $100 a night someone will report it and it gets deleted.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45



Yes I was in the "bargain basement". I never found a link to LMR ~ Ron


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## DeniseM

Ron - it's a TUG discussion forum - it's not in the market place.  Click on the link in John's post.


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## RonB

DeniseM said:


> Ron - it's a TUG discussion forum - it's not in the market place.  Click on the link in John's post.



Yes- I did that and bookmarked it. 

Ron


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## Sandy VDH

geekette said:


> I disagree with that.  people set their own expectations.
> 
> what I expect is affordable last minute trip from LMR.  everyone has their own idea of what "affordable" is, so a number was chosen.



Those expectations of "affordable" were set at least in 2001, when the $100 night rate was set.  So NO inflation in that 13 years.  That is not realistic.  Boy I wish I had not inflation on my MFs in that same time frame.  



geekette said:


> few tuggers will move their units.



...and few tuggers every get to see the light of day of what I can offer.  Because I never post it, and I never respond to Wanted LMR that I have access to, because I can't pay for someone else to go on vacation.

No skin off my nose, I just can't help any wanted LMR and I can't post any LMR that someone will think is a bargain at twice the $100 day price.


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## Sandy VDH

csxjohn said:


> I think the rentals wanted forum is a different animal.  People can ask for what ever they want no matter how outrageous it may be.  Someone with the unit they need can PM or email them and offer the unit at a higher price but cannot not do so publicly in the forum itself.



Oh I have done that, offered them a very high demand week in a prime location and was told in a rather nasty manner than I could not ask more than $100 per night as it was against the rules even when I only asked via private PM.  When I withdrew the offer, as I couldn't possible dispose of it at that price, that is when the language really became colorful. 

Basically they want NYC week and would only ever offer to pay the $100 night.  I said good luck then. That was not the answer they wanted.  

I not saying that everything I could offer would have to be in that range, but it might give me an opportunity to offer something to someone who was looking without getting my head bit off.

So all the current limits have done for me is not help those who are looking.  Never taken anyone up on a LMR offered.

I just stay out of it.


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## PamMo

I really like the $100/night limit, but understand the desire for a place to post more expensive LMR's. It seems like more people are placing "distressed" units in the Sightings forum. They don't ask for money in their posts, but they want some sort of "payment" for their weeks when you contact them.

It is easy to search for Last Minute rentals in the TUG marketplace when you limit your search by dates.


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## DeniseM

PamMo said:


> It seems like more people are placing "distressed" units in the Sightings forum.



Distressed posts are ONLY for *exchanges* that people can't use.  When regular rentals are posted as "distressed posts" they are deleted.

The Last Minute Rental Forum is ONLY for *rentals* (that are not exchanges) that people can't use.


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## dioxide45

I can understand the desire to increase the limit. Someone can post a studio for $100 a night, but that person with the 2BR or 3BR is also bound by the $100 limit. I suppose a tiered structure could be in place where a studio has one limit, a 1BR another, a 2BR a higher amount, etc. That though it too hard to moderate.

The whole LMR Wanted shouldn't have a limit in IMO and reading the rules there isn't such a restriction as long as any negotiation is completed via PM.

If $100/night was the limit back in 2001, I do agree with others that $100 today is unreasonable.


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## siesta

dioxide45 said:


> If $100/night was the limit back in 2001, I do agree with others that $100 today is unreasonable.


 yes, I think thats all anyone is really saying here.  Tiered makes it complicated, but bumping it up to $125 or $150 a night max seems like it is in line with the purpose it was set at $100 ~14 years ago. It really doesn't make sense for it to be the same, not in the slightest, unless it really is for mere convenience rather than anying that has to do with the slightest bit of logic (which your tounge in cheek comment that they can only do simple math may suggest).


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## SnowDogDad

As a potential rentee, I have mixed feelings about the max $100/night rate.  I agree that if it goes much higher, you'd start to see brokers and agents trying to use it.  

I have a 3-bedroom/4-bath fractional condo in Marriott Grand Residence Lake Tahoe that at $100, I'd be practically giving it away even during the off season.  Though $100/night is better than sitting empty. 

I did just purchase a 1-bedroom fractional condo at the same that I might advertise in last minute rentals. 

As a potential renter, though, I scan the last minute deals looking for a bargain often to see if there is someplace great deal I could take advantage of.  So, the $100/night limit is good for the consumer.


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## uscav8r

SnowDogDad said:


> .. at $100, I'd be practically giving it away even during the off season.  Though $100/night is better than sitting empty.
> 
> So, the $100/night limit is good for the consumer.


Both of these are not absolute truths. There is a cost to renting a unit out and I don't mean maintenance fees. I am referring to the _risk _you take on my renting out a unit in terms of damages. Not every security deposit can cover a worst-case scenario, and as non-commercial renters, we don't have much recourse to go after a renter.

So I could see many cases in which an owner won't even take $100/night and just let the place lie fallow or cancel the reservation altogether to avoid the hassle of renting at all.

As for the second thought, "floors" and "ceilings" are often economically detrimental to the consumer (I'm speaking on a very broad level) due to reduced offerings if owners take the stance I laid out for thought #1. LMR is a fairly small market anyway, so it may not suffer from this that much, but it is something to consider.


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## Beefnot

geekette said:


> If Brian wanted to add a High End Last Minute board, ok by me. Everything at least 100/night, w/in 45 days of checkin.



So I guess that 13 years ago it was the High End Last Minute Board and due to inflation, gradually became the Bargain Last Minute Board? So Denise and Brian, what is the go-forward strategy here? What will be the catalysts or indices for upping the limit? Or just let it ride another 13 years as it becomes the Full Week For The Price of a Nice Dinner Last Minute Board?



dioxide45 said:


> I can understand the desire to increase the limit. Someone can post a studio for $100 a night, but that person with the 2BR or 3BR is also bound by the $100 limit. I suppose a tiered structure could be in place where a studio has one limit, a 1BR another, a 2BR a higher amount, etc. That though it too hard to moderate.
> 
> The whole LMR Wanted shouldn't have a limit in IMO and reading the rules there isn't such a restriction as long as any negotiation is completed via PM.
> 
> If $100/night was the limit back in 2001, I do agree with others that $100 today is unreasonable.



Tiering is a good idea too. There could be clear guidelines on how a post must be structured that could make it quite easy to moderate.


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## csxjohn

Sandy VDH said:


> Oh I have done that, offered them a very high demand week in a prime location and was told in a rather nasty manner than I could not ask more than $100 per night as it was against the rules even when I only asked via private PM.  ....



I understand your frustration.  I would not have a problem telling such a person that they don't know the rules for the forum and if they were nasty I would be sure to be firm in my reply.

The rules in that situation are very clear but I would not deal with that particular person.

I also would not stop offering to people in that forum but might quote the rule in a response.  Something like " in accordance with the rules of this forum I will offer to you this unit for this much" and quote the rule in your response.



> REPLIES WITH OFFERS:
> Replies in public posts must comply with the $700/week or $100/day forum offering price limit. Replies made by direct contact are not bound by this limit.



I know that if I asked for a large unit or a prime area/time I would expect offers that were more than $700.


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## csxjohn

Beefnot said:


> ..
> 
> Tiering is a good idea too. There could be clear guidelines on how a post must be structured that could make it quite easy to moderate.



It isn't going to happen.  

Many posters either don't read the guidelines, don't understant them or don't care.  Monitoring will become burdensom.

Just look at the Rentals Offered forum.  the rules for posting are very clear.  



> REQUIRED SUBJECT LINE FORMAT:
> To facilitate forum maintenance, subject lines must include the following information:
> Resort Name, Resort Location, Date
> Example:
> 
> Westgate Villas, Orlando, Florida, 1/10/06 - 1/17/06



I look at the ads everyday and get very frustrated that the required info is not in the subject line of many ads.  I started a thread about it and it was made a sticky.

It's gotten to the point that if the info is not there I don't open the ads to look for it.  How hard is it to put the city, resort, and dates in the title line?

I spend too much time here now so when looking at that forum you may lose me as a renter if the info is not there.


I see  similar things happening if it's made more complicated.

I have no opinion on the $700 limit.  Brian has his reasons and it is his baby.


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## Rent_Share

I participated in the discussion in 2010

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95027&highlight=minute

 I recall a more "spirited one, more recently but perhaps it got locked


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## dioxide45

geekette said:


> Isn't that why people are asking for the limit to be raised?  So they can profit?
> 
> the point of the forum is Last Minute.  It doesn't really matter to me if owner makes a profit if I get a good deal.  Each place has different MF.  Mods can't do anything about that.  If your MF is higher or lower than $100/night makes no difference.  Rule is 100/night max.  You can't rent 2 nights for 700.  You can't rent for 25/night at 6 months out.
> 
> If someone is making a profit, so what?  Everyone is free to purchase the ownership they desire, or none at all, and feast on distressed rentals.  That's what this is, Distressed Inventory.  If everything I own costs me less than 700/week, what is it to you if I post all of my rentals there, so long as they are within ressie window?   Why would you be concerned that I can cancel last minute with no penalty?  You can have the same ownership.



The point I was trying to make is based on moderator comments, that the forum is "_not designed for regular for-profit rentals. It's for owners to recoup some of their funds when they find themselves with reservations that they can't use at 45 days or less before check-in_."

If one can cancel up to almost last minute, that isn't a unit that they can't use themselves and would otherwise lose and end up with nothing. They opt to rent on the forum, they aren't really using the forum as it was designed. The LMR forum doesn't seem to be working as it seems that it was designed.

People are using it to rent for profit rentals. I don't fault people for that and I agree that others can do the same. However, is the forum designed for people to get some money from their owned reservation that they can't otherwise use, or is it setup for people with specific ownerships to rent for profit? Most of the rentals I see on the LMR forum are the latter, not the former for which it seems the forum was designed.


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## Sandy VDH

My point was that I would be more willing to help others by responding to LMR Wanted ads if the limit was not $100.  It was not about profit, it was about not losing money.

So my choice given the current limit is to NOT help people who have put in requests.  

I currently don't advertise anything on the LMR Offered.  I might if I had a better chance of covering more of my cost.

So at the currently level, I do not participate.


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## dioxide45

Sandy VDH said:


> My point was that I would be more willing to help others by responding to LMR Wanted ads if the limit was not $100.  It was not about profit, it was about not losing money.
> 
> So my choice given the current limit is to NOT help people who have put in requests.
> 
> I currently don't advertise anything on the LMR Offered.  I might if I had a better chance of covering more of my cost.
> 
> So at the currently level, I do not participate.



I think the forum rules for the LMR Wanted forum should be removed to take out the following. 



> REPLIES WITH OFFERS:
> Replies in public posts must comply with the $700/week or $100/day forum offering price limit. Replies made by direct contact are not bound by this limit.



IMO, there should be no restriction. Any negotiations should take place via PM or email, not in the open forum. If someone is wanting a rental, they need to expect that there may only be one or two people that have the rental they want. They can then take the best offer, or not.

The only restriction should be the 45 day limit.


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## csxjohn

dioxide45 said:


> IMO, there should be no restriction. Any negotiations should take place via PM or email, not in the open forum. If someone is wanting a rental, they need to expect that there may only be one or two people that have the rental they want. They can then take the best offer, or not.
> 
> The only restriction should be the 45 day limit.



In effect there is no real limit as long as everything is done by PM or email.  I never could understand people making offers on the public forum anyhow.

Really no rule changes are needed for that forum. IMO.


One good thing that came out of this discussion is that Brian added some stickies referring people to the classified ads.  It appears that people aren't doing that now according to some of the post here.


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## dioxide45

csxjohn said:


> In effect there is no real limit as long as everything is done by PM or email.  I never could understand people making offers on the public forum anyhow.



I think the problem is that the current verbiage gives people a false expectation that all rentals in the LMR Wanted forum are limited to $100 a night. Removing or updating my quoted verbiage will remove the expectation.


----------



## csxjohn

dioxide45 said:


> I think the problem is that the current verbiage gives people a false expectation that all rentals in the LMR Wanted forum are limited to $100 a night. Removing or updating my quoted verbiage will remove the expectation.



You are absolutely right.

If people took the time to read the rules though, your fix would not be needed.

It takes some time to get used to all the rules here and in the beginning I was having a lot of problems and thought I might get sent to band camp.

Discussions like this one probably help those who aren't aware of some of the rules.


----------



## chriskre

Is there any harm in testing the market?
If it doesn't work out and is over run with commercial renters then we could go back to business as usual.  

There are commercial renters flooding the last minute boards anyway.
Although I understand the intention of the board, I know others (including myself) would be willing to pay a little more for the name brands, mainly DVC, Hyatt, Wyndham Presidential units, Marriotts, HGVC's etc.  

There is no incentive currently for those who own those units to currently offer those units to TUGgers.  Right now our members miss out on what could be a great vacation at a price they'd be willing to pay even if it were $1000 a week.  But no one will see it because for some reason the traffic just doesn't seem to be forwarding to the marketplace.  

I am on an active DVC owners forum and they have a very active rental board.  They don't set $ limits but do set limits on weekly rentals to discourage what they feel is illegal renting of DVC/RCI exchanges.  

They have found a way to separate out the tons of rental ads when you log in as a member so you can read just what you are there to read and not have to weed thru tons of ads.  They use V-bulletin too, so there is some sort of way to do it.  Here is the forum in case you want to see how they do it.  
www.mouseowners.com


----------



## Rent_Share

dioxide45 said:


> I think the problem is that the current verbiage gives people a false expectation that all rentals in the LMR Wanted forum are limited to $100 a night. Removing or updating my quoted verbiage will remove the expectation.



On another brand specific users message board, the for rent and want to rent reservation threads are restricted to not allow on line responses - only PM's, they also maintain a cost limit of actual credits, housekeeping and tax costs ,

 Credit Point rentals have no price limits, but the threads are similarly limited to one post, all responses via PM

 On the Official Brand Sponsored Message board, discussion of any price will get you banned


----------



## Sandy VDH

That would be fine as long as the expectation is that the rate is Max $100 a night.  

As I said I PM'd someone who was looking for NYC be were irate when I off board I wanted more than what they deemed the max allows.  Since we could not agree on a rate I withdrew my offer, as I couldn't possibly rent it as that rate and then they were more livid that I was not going to let them have it. 

As I said that is why I do not bother with the boards.  If it was clear that ANY rate could be offered and you either decide that you want it or you don't.


----------



## TUGBrian

you can offer any rate you want, through PM.


----------



## presley

Brian, DeniseM, et al, for those of us who need to charge more to recover most of our MFs, could we post it in the Marketplace and then put a link to the ad in our signature?  That way, we can get a little more exposure without changing anything in the forums.


----------



## DeniseM

presley said:


> Brian, DeniseM, et al, for those of us who need to charge more to recover most of our MFs, could we post it in the Marketplace and then put a link to the ad in our signature?  That way, we can get a little more exposure without changing anything in the forums.



*TUG Forum Rules:*


> The advertising ban includes information in your bbs signature. You may link to a commercial website in your signature, but the link itself may not indicate the nature of the site. If your URL or domain name indicates the nature of the site, it should not be visually displayed. A visual link saying only "My website" or other similar innocuous wording is acceptable.



Many creative suggestions have been posted here, but what most of you are not considering is how these suggestions will open the door to *purely commercial activities* on TUG.  Do you really want the discussion forums to be awash in commercial activity?  

It's simply not necessary - that's why we have the Market Place, Bargain Deals Forum, and Last Minute Rentals forums.  We already HAVE lots of places for sales and rentals - let's keep the discussion forums commercial free.


----------



## dioxide45

DeniseM said:


> *TUG Forum Rules:*
> 
> Many creative suggestions have been posted here, but what most of you are not considering is how these suggestions will open the door to *purely commercial activities* on TUG.  Do you really want the discussion forums to be awash in commercial activity?
> 
> It's simply not necessary - that's why we have the Market Place, Bargain Deals Forum, and Last Minute Rentals forums.  We already HAVE lots of places for sales and rentals - let's keep the discussion forums commercial free.



The forum currently has a lot of commercial activity. If the forum is meant to be a place for someone to unload an owned week when they are not able to use it, there simply shouldn't the level of activity that exists in the forum. I would expect it to be equivalent to the Distress availability that gets posted in Sightings/Distressed. Which is maybe 5 a month?

We need to face facts that there is currently already a lot of commercial activity happening in LMR, why not just eliminate the forum all together and just push everyone to the Marketplace? I really see no other way to prevent commercial activity. Commercial activity is banned in the forums, but it seems to be happening under the veil of LMR by people that have ownerships that it works well for.


----------



## tschwa2

There was recently a posting for a 3 night weekend at a popular location for $300 in LMR.  The poster said is was gone in hours and it was posted fairly late at night.  The following weekend is sitting in the marketplace at $399 and has been there for several weeks.  Is it the extra $33 per night that keeps it from being rented or is it that the average TUG user doesn't go the the marketplace regularly to browse (and it isn't set up for impulse buys like the LMR section)?


----------



## vacationhopeful

tschwa2 said:


> There was recently a posting for a 3 night weekend at a popular location for $300 in LMR.  The poster said is was gone in hours and it was posted fairly late at night.  The following weekend is sitting in the marketplace at $399 and has been there for several weeks.  Is it the extra $33 per night that keeps it from being rented or is it that the average TUG user doesn't go the the marketplace regularly to browse (and it isn't set up for impulse buys like the LMR section)?



The average Joe is not looking at the market place, IMHO. Believe me, it may be posted at $100 per night - but the rental price I get offered on PMs is lower. 

If I remember correctly, at one time, the powers to be here at TUG had group websites with links ONLY to the LMR thread. These non-timeshare sources - this was their only HUNTING ground - working like a neighborhood yard store, with offers ALWAYS less than the asking price. And the closer to day of check in, the lower the price.


----------



## csxjohn

tschwa2 said:


> There was recently a posting for a 3 night weekend at a popular location for $300 in LMR.  The poster said is was gone in hours and it was posted fairly late at night.  The following weekend is sitting in the marketplace at $399 and has been there for several weeks.  Is it the extra $33 per night that keeps it from being rented or is it that the average TUG user doesn't go the the marketplace regularly to browse (and it isn't set up for impulse buys like the LMR section)?



A couple things come to mind when I looked for the ad you're talking about.

It could very well be the extra $95.  To many, I'm sure, $300 is way more attractive than $395.

It could also be that the weekend rental is gone and the ad is still there for the full week advertised.

Or, it could be that the poster never bothered to cancel the ad if the unit was rented.

One thing about the classifieds is that you can't bump your ad to the top and if you edit your ad it could be incognito for up to a day.  I'm not sure if your old ad stays until the changes are made of if the whole thing goes dark until the changes are approved?


----------



## cissy

I prefer keeping the limit as it is.  There are other options for making a profit.


----------



## VegasBella

Personally, I'd like to see the forums and the marketplace more fully integrated so that you could easily browse the marketplace ads while on the forums.

And I think it would make sense to simply charge a flat fee for all ads regardless of content. What I'm saying is that I'd be OK with just eliminating the Bargain Deals section of the forums in exchange for better integration between the two separate databases of TUG. 

I've rented from Bargain Deals a number of times so I use them and like them. But I really think overall that TUG would be a healthier, more productive community if the marketplace were integrated with the forums. The reason the forums would be overrun by commercial ads if the limit were higher isn't because there is a fee to place an ad at the marketplace, it's because no one looks at the marketplace. If the marketplace were integrated with the forums then it would get a lot more traffic.


----------



## TUGBrian

its really quite ridiculous to claim that noone looks at the marketplace.

the traffic it gets (and completed ads there) are an order of magnitude larger than the LMR section on the forums.


----------



## tschwa2

TUGBrian said:


> its really quite ridiculous to claim that noone looks at the marketplace.
> 
> the traffic it gets (and completed ads there) are an order of magnitude larger than the LMR section on the forums.



But I don't think that people look at the marketplace for last minute ads.  

The completed ads don't really mean much because when you mark something as rented it doesn't mean it was rented off TUG nor does it mean that it was rented for the rate listed on TUG.  I would be willing to indicate where and possibly for how much but I don't think most people are going to bother as many don't even bother to remove them when they are no longer available.  

Personally I like the idea of getting 5 or 10 annual LMR credits along with membership (and regular ad credits for marketplace only) that would allow you to link your regular Marketplace ad to the LMR at 45 day or less if you want to at a rate of $150 a day or $1000 for the week or less for the week.  

I do less than 10 rentals a year and most are for less than $700 for the week.  The $100 per day is harder to match because extra housekeeping costs that I would have to pay direct make it not worth advertising a partial week even if it available because I would have to put money upfront.


----------



## TUGBrian

tschwa2 said:


> The completed ads don't really mean much because when you mark something as rented it doesn't mean it was rented off TUG nor does it mean that it was rented for the rate listed on TUG..



that same argument applies to the LMR forum as well.


I count nearly 150 posts for last month alone in the LMR section...clearly its still a workable limit for many folks.

I do see the argument of MF always going up...but thats also a complaint from owners as well...noone wants to pay more..and as MF's rise...even owners consider that purchase 20 years ago as less of a "bargain" now.

As this thread comes up every year or so, we still have two completely opposite viewpoints...with large numbers of folks on either side....either decision is going to upset one or the other.


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> its really quite ridiculous to claim that noone looks at the marketplace.
> 
> the traffic it gets (and completed ads there) are an order of magnitude larger than the LMR section on the forums.




Is it possible to have email notifications for marketplace listings of all new or on a search preference? As it is, I receive a daily email with listings in the LMR but it's been many months since I looked at the marketplace. Perhaps providing it with greater exposure would increase the number of transactions and confidence in it as a great way to list available, even last minute, weeks which wouldn't fit under the financial limits of the LMR forum.

Also, is the current traffic of the marketplace based on unique visitors? Since every visit to the marketplace would involve multiple pages (search, individual ad listings, etc) a single visitor would make up much greater web traffic than similar visits to the LMR.

Sent from my iPad


----------



## TUGBrian

You can add resorts to your resort watch list and it will indeed send you an email notification when new ads or reviews are submitted for the resort..yes.

This is available when you log into http://tug2.com  and click the "watch list" link after logging in.


----------



## ondeadlin

Perhaps a potential compromise would be to (1) limit last-minute rental posts to TUG members; (2) limit members to two posts per year; and (3) lift the rental max to $200 per night.

Just a thought ...

This would be an added benefit for members and the limit would discourage commercial renters.


----------



## dioxide45

ondeadlin said:


> Perhaps a potential compromise would be to (1) limit last-minute rental posts to TUG members; (2) limit members to two posts per year; and (3) lift the rental max to $200 per night.
> 
> Just a thought ...
> 
> This would be an added benefit for members and the limit would discourage commercial renters.



The only problem with that is, who tracks the number of posts someone places in LMR. I don't think there is a way to limit the number of posts. Someone could also sign up for multiple BBS accounts and skirt said rules.


----------



## Beefnot

dioxide45 said:


> The only problem with that is, who tracks the number of posts someone places in LMR. I don't think there is a way to limit the number of posts. Someone could also sign up for multiple BBS accounts and skirt said rules.


 
But it is an interesting notion that if there were a way to establish auto-rules that could limit the number of threads a user can create, and require those threads to be created only by TUG members (maybe even add a minimum post count to create a thread in the forum), that might make the forum more useful while deterring some abuse.  Commercial renters will always find a way, so that is what it is. 

I know on that other timeshare site, they have forums (like Politics forum)which have minimum post counts to participate on.


----------



## Rent_Share

My recollection is the last this came up before, it came down to.

1. Brian owns TUG
2. Brian wants to leave it at $ 700

Any questions or different opinions see rule 1


----------



## dioxide45

Rent_Share said:


> My recollection is the last this came up before, it came down to.
> 
> 1. Brian owns TUG
> 2. Brian wants to leave it at $ 700
> 
> Any questions or different opinions see rule 1



That is how it works. People can take their posts and rentals (business) elsewhere if they so desire. When the posts start to go down, perhaps it will change some minds. Though wait, perhaps that is happening?


----------



## x3 skier

Rent_Share said:


> My recollection is the last this came up before, it came down to.
> 
> 1. Brian owns TUG
> 2. Brian wants to leave it at $ 700
> 
> Any questions or different opinions see rule 1



+1 

Cheers


----------



## TUGBrian

you are welcome to simpify it like that all you want...but as explained before...it actually comes down to 

1. a small group of people want a change
2. another group of people want it to stay the same

so no matter which decision is made, some of you are going to be unhappy...feel free to blame that catch-22 on me if it makes you feel better =)


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> You can add resorts to your resort watch list and it will indeed send you an email notification when new ads or reviews are submitted for the resort..yes.
> 
> This is available when you log into http://tug2.com  and click the "watch list" link after logging in.




Thanks, Brian. I'll check that out.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Sattva

I agree that it cuts down on larger sized units that we TUGGERs might want last minute!
We just had this come up with a 2BR Club Intrawest in Sandestin for Easter week that we could not use.

Would have LOVED for a TUGGER to get it. Would have been OK with the idea of losing some on MFs, but over 50%? 

No hits from TUG Marketplace.
Hubby couldn't imagine, given maintenance fees, to list it in LMR for $700 (I am the timesharer in the fam, he is happy to go on the trips and pay the MFs but figuring it all out is up to me LOL).

People are free to own whatever they choose.
But as a TUGGER I would love to get some of Sandy's Hawaii or Wyndham Presidential availabilities! Less exchange fees for the companies and more $$ for Sandy (in this case). Better vacations for TUGGERs.

I also see the point that commercial renters would be attracted if the limits were raised too high, but a happy medium with raised tiered rates and a calculator might be something to consider. 

Change is just keeping up after all


----------



## Beefnot

3carolyn said:


> I agree that it cuts down on larger sized units that we TUGGERs might want last minute!
> We just had this come up with a 2BR Club Intrawest in Sandestin for Easter week that we could not use.
> 
> Would have LOVED for a TUGGER to get it. Would have been OK with the idea of losing some on MFs, but over 50%?
> 
> No hits from TUG Marketplace.
> Hubby couldn't imagine, given maintenance fees, to list it in LMR for $700 (I am the timesharer in the fam, he is happy to go on the trips and pay the MFs but figuring it all out is up to me LOL).
> 
> People are free to own whatever they choose.
> But as a TUGGER I would love to get some of Sandy's Hawaii or Wyndham Presidential availabilities! Less exchange fees for the companies and more $$ for Sandy (in this case). Better vacations for TUGGERs.
> 
> I also see the point that commercial renters would be attracted if the limits were raised too high, but a happy medium with raised tiered rates and a calculator might be something to consider.
> 
> Change is just keeping up after all



But we are just a small group of whiners. Not that if we were a large group of whiners it would change anything.


----------



## tschwa2

We could poll it.  I think members votes should count double.  But in the end it is Brian's call.  At least we would know how big the group of whiners are.  And we would also know who to blame if the change happens and the floods open as Denise predicts.




:zzz:


:annoyed:


----------



## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> We could poll it.  I think members votes should count double.  But in the end it is Brian's call.  At least we would know how big the group of whiners are.  And we would also know who to blame if the change happens and the floods open as Denise predicts.



We really don't even know if there will be WAY more commercial activity if it is raised to say $900. Denise GUARANTEES it, but do we know really? I say, PROVE US WRONG...

In the end, it doesn't really matter. The powers that be don't really like change around here, except for some unbeknownst reason to remove the Points System Discussion forum. Change occurs when it isn't requested, and when something is requested it never happens. You are probably better to never ever talk about it, and you might just get your wish.

_ETA: Also, polls are meaninless, it is already noted that moderators can manipulate the votes. I wouldn't trust a poll on the subject._


----------



## Rent_Share

TUGBrian said:


> you are welcome to simpify it like that all you want...but as explained before...it actually comes down to
> 
> 1. a small group of people want a change
> 2. another group of people want it to stay the same
> 
> so no matter which decision is made, some of you are going to be unhappy...feel free to blame that catch-22 on me if it makes you feel better =)



I recall the previous discussion (deleted ?) more contentious, so it was shut down more abruptly


----------



## Sandy VDH

So be it.  I guess I just keep the status quo and cancel whatever deals I can instead of offering them to TUGger on LMR.  

It does not make a difference to me, let no good deed go unpunished.


----------



## TUGBrian

as has been stated at least 3 or 4 times now, if you want to offer "Deals" to tuggers, you can post them in the marketplace with no limits at all.

far more people browse the marketplace than the LMR section, I can assure you.


Im personally not opposed to raising the limit, however as ive also said at least 3 or 4 times now, there are plenty of folks who are against the change...so implementing it just because you guys keep posting snide comments about me or the site isnt really a valid reason...once done I'd just hear the same comments from the other side.


----------



## csxjohn

TUGBrian said:


> ...far more people browse the marketplace than the LMR section, I can assure you.
> 
> 
> ....



I think this explains everything.  Brian knows how many people browse where.  It looks like it boils down to most browsers are looking for super deals.  If not, why no hits on ads for the more expensive units?

I'm not so sure there would be too much resistance to a minor increase in the price in the LMR.  As I stated earlier I have no opinion on the matter of an increase.

Some have suggested a slight increase, how in the world is that going to help those with units where they pay $1,500 in MFs?  They are in the same boat, they can't let it go for say, $125 per night, so why bother with a change like that?

I think TUG is a great place to give away a TS but not so good to try to get $500 for a non branded TS.  Right away the people here want you to add perks to the give-away offers.  This is another example of there being bargain basement hunters here.  Nothing wrong with looking for bargains but if it's not a super deal I don't think this is the place to try to move something.


----------



## VegasBella

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say no one visits the marketplace. I meant to say more people visit the forums and they visit more frequently.

LMR posts show up under the "new posts" view of the forums. New marketplace ads don't. Since the deal is usually the title of the thread, one need not visit the LMR forums or open the thread to have effectively seen the ad.

Also, People who visit the marketplace are looking to buy/rent or sell. People who visit the forums may buy/rent but aren't actively looking. Posting ads on the forums is thus likely to reach a larger number of potential renters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TUGBrian

I think the crux here is that the forums are not the intended place for folks to list their timeshares for rent.  (you are absolutely correct that the forums as a whole, get far more traffic than the marketplace...in fact its easily 2x as much)

the LMR section is designed as such to provide a last ditch effort to get something for your timeshare interval that is about to expire soon.

I dont see folks claiming the LMR section is not successful in its goal, the complaint I see is from folks who want to charge more than $700/week for their timeshare rentals within the next 45 days.

While again I am not opposed to having the limit raised, there is clearly a debate as to what an acceptable limit would be for a "last minute rental"

folks with high MF's will of course argue it should be much higher, those who have been successful in renting LMR weeks will argue it should stay where it is.  Perhaps there is a happy medium somewhere, but what that medium is...is certainly not clear (and hasnt been in any of the yearly discussions of this thread)


----------



## tschwa2

From what I have seen there have been a few posts about really high end stuff which might be nice to see but most have mentioned a fairly small bump. 

I liked the suggestion of keeping it at $700 or less for studios and 1 br's and bumping it up to $900 or less for 2 br's or larger.


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> You can add resorts to your resort watch list and it will indeed send you an email notification when new ads or reviews are submitted for the resort..yes.
> 
> This is available when you log into http://tug2.com  and click the "watch list" link after logging in.




I see this setting. However, it seems to require I specify exactly which resort I am interested in watching, or a group of specific resorts. I prefer the daily email (and quick view via Tapa) of the LMR forum since it includes all listings, including those I might not have thought of and yet could be interested in. I've rented from this list before and wouldn't have ever found them on the marketplace if I had to search by resort. Food for thought.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## csxjohn

Ken555 said:


> I see this setting. However, it seems to require I specify exactly which resort I am interested in watching, or a group of specific resorts. I prefer the daily email (and quick view via Tapa) of the LMR forum since it includes all listings, including those I might not have thought of and yet could be interested in. I've rented from this list before and wouldn't have ever found them on the marketplace if I had to search by resort. Food for thought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



If you go to the classifieds on a daily basis and look in the areas you are interested in, it will become very easy to see the new ads.  It's troublesome at first to go through all the ads in an area you want to vist but I don't look at all the ads.  Because the price is there, it's easy to scan the list and even easier after a couple days of looking.

I know it's not as easy as what you'd like but I think it is pretty simple.


----------



## ace2000

I enjoy the Last Minute Rentals forum, and I've been both a rentee and a renter in the past.  I personally would like to see the limit and the rules remain the same.

However, if we decide to up the limit, can we please make a compromise and require a price per night in the subject line?  Seems like that would help the moderators also.


----------



## thinze3

I could care less about the limit of $700, BUT ...

If you are worried about commercialization of rentals by raising the limits to $1000, then you must have been really worried about it in 2001. Because, back then you could have bought twice as much with that $700.  Just saying.


2001 . . . . 2014
2.85 . . . . 3.69  milk
1.56 . . . . 3.66  gas
2.91 . . . . 5.20  coffee
900 . . . . 1800  Waiohai MF's

:hysterical:


----------



## geekette

ondeadlin said:


> Perhaps a potential compromise would be to (1) limit last-minute rental posts to TUG members; (2) limit members to two posts per year; and (3) lift the rental max to $200 per night.
> 
> Just a thought ...
> 
> This would be an added benefit for members and the limit would discourage commercial renters.



There is usually a post voting to ban guests, so I just want to point out that we would not be able to rent from you, either.


----------



## csxjohn

geekette said:


> There is usually a post voting to ban guests, so I just want to point out that we would not be able to rent from you, either.



I agree, a very bad idea to make this members only.  

I responded to an ad in the classifieds, secured a unit from a "seller" then became a member.  After that I found the forums so I think I did it a little bass ackwards but if I had to be a member to respond to ads like they do over at RedWeek, that seller may still be looking for a buyer.


----------



## geekette

tschwa2 said:


> We could poll it.  I think members votes should count double.  But in the end it is Brian's call.  At least we would know how big the group of whiners are.  And we would also know who to blame if the change happens and the floods open as Denise predicts.



and we'd know who to blame doubly.


----------



## geekette

dioxide45 said:


> We really don't even know if there will be WAY more commercial activity if it is raised to say $900. Denise GUARANTEES it, but do we know really? I say, PROVE US WRONG...
> 
> In the end, it doesn't really matter. The powers that be don't really like change around here, except for some unbeknownst reason to remove the Points System Discussion forum. Change occurs when it isn't requested, and when something is requested it never happens. You are probably better to never ever talk about it, and you might just get your wish.
> 
> _ETA: Also, polls are meaninless, it is already noted that moderators can manipulate the votes. I wouldn't trust a poll on the subject._



Wow, you've been around long enough that I really am surprised by this post.


----------



## Weimaraner

Rent_Share said:


> My recollection is the last this came up before, it came down to.
> 
> 1. Brian owns TUG
> 2. Brian wants to leave it at $ 700
> 
> Any questions or different opinions see rule 1



3. I pay TUG membership fees so am entitled to offer suggestions.

Not sure how high Brian's maintenace fees are but mine keep escalating and I increase rental fee based on it. I just wanted to point out that fees have been escalating in recent years nd someone who pays $1200-$2800 for international maintenance fees would be discouraged from LMR and last minute Marketplace ad. And yes I do use the Marketplace and get alerts. I'm an occasional renter and rentee. I have alerts set up for Surf Club, Harborside and St. John.

I just don't buy that argument about being overrun by commercial brokers. Who can make a lot of profit for a $900-$1000 rental? Someone said they don't post sightings because people will rent them. So we're all so fearful that someone might make a buck off TUG that we shoot ourselves in the foot by avoiding sightings and high end LMRs?


----------



## SueDonJ

From the perspective of someone who doesn't use timeshares or TUG as a quasi-rental business, I like that rental activity is somewhat limited in the forums and that admins encourage the TUG Marketplace as the correct place for it.  I also like that Sightings/Distressed-like posts are moved or edited when they migrate to the public forums.  Why have a S/D board if posts that include what's supposed to be Members-Only information are allowed elsewhere?

As a moderator, if the LMR amounts are increased to offset inflation then I like the suggestion that would require the per/night cost to be included in that forum's Post Titles.

As a TUG participant, I'm always against calls for more items to be restricted to Members-Only - it just doesn't fit with the overall inclusionary and welcoming nature of the TUG I know and love.  The new-to-me call in this thread for Members to have double the polling power of Guests doesn't sit right at all.


----------



## tschwa2

I don't think the polls really have any real meaning but it may counter the argument that just as many people feel x as y.  My question is how would you know that without some kind of a hand count.  

The only reason that I mentioned that member votes might count more is 1- they do support the site financially in a small way and 2- if I really cared I could go to work or to the library and register as 20 different guests and vote but I am not going to pay for 20 memberships to vote, so members are more likely to be just one person whereas I suspect of all the guests that have registered at one point or another there are more than a couple duplicates.  And honestly I think those with the commercial agenda would be more likely to vote multiple times for the higher level so by  counting members votes more I think (but certainly will not guarantee) that the level would remain lower, which isn't necessarily what I want.

I just don't see the harm in giving it a 60 day trial run that could be ended sooner if things got out of hand.


----------



## geekette

tschwa2 said:


> The only reason that I mentioned that member votes might count more is 1- they do support the site financially in a small way and 2- if I really cared I could go to work or to the library and register as 20 different guests and vote but I am not going to pay for 20 memberships to vote, so members are more likely to be just one person whereas *I suspect of all the guests that have registered at one point or another there are more than a couple duplicates*.  And honestly I think those with the commercial agenda would be more likely to vote multiple times for the higher level so by  counting members votes more I think (but certainly will not guarantee) that the level would remain lower, which isn't necessarily what I want....


Very interesting point of view, I appreciate your explanation.

it had not occurred to me to become a multiple personality guest for the sole purpose of rigging votes.  Or because I forgot who I was originally (I could see this happening:  someone that found us when buying and left for a few years and wasn't sure if they ever registered).  

Might be easier to throw out votes of those who are commercial renters and contribute nothing else to the site or people that just showed up since this thread began.   

Whatever Brian decides, I'm on board.


----------



## Ken555

csxjohn said:


> If you go to the classifieds on a daily basis and look in the areas you are interested in, it will become very easy to see the new ads.  It's troublesome at first to go through all the ads in an area you want to vist but I don't look at all the ads.  Because the price is there, it's easy to scan the list and even easier after a couple days of looking.
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's not as easy as what you'd like but I think it is pretty simple.




You don't get it. The entire point of my posts have been that I prefer an email summarizing all the new or modified listings, similar to the feature offered by the forum. I don't want to look at the marketplace, and especially have no interest in looking daily. I think it's quite cumbersome to have to specify exactly which resort(s) I am interested in renting in order to receive notification of a new or modified listing. 

FWIW, I visited TUG via a web browser yesterday to look at the marketplace, and that was the first time I've visited using a web browser in many months since I just use TapaTalk now. And I intermittently review the daily emails I receive for the forums I subscribe to, especially on those days I don't visit via Tapa (since it's very simple to see all new or modified threads on Tapa). 

Since the marketplace is the place to see all other weeks for rent that don't fit under the LMR guidelines, I think it would be nice to see what's available on a regular basis. But I have absolutely no interest in spending time daily to login and check out the site via web browser. I wonder how many unique visitors review rentals on the marketplace on a daily basis.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Elan

3carolyn said:


> I agree that it cuts down on larger sized units that we TUGGERs might want last minute!
> We just had this come up with a 2BR Club Intrawest in Sandestin for Easter week that we could not use.
> 
> Would have LOVED for a TUGGER to get it. Would have been OK with the idea of losing some on MFs, but over 50%?
> 
> No hits from TUG Marketplace.
> Hubby couldn't imagine, given maintenance fees, to list it in LMR for $700 (I am the timesharer in the fam, he is happy to go on the trips and pay the MFs but figuring it all out is up to me LOL).



  So what did you do with your Easter week?


----------



## csxjohn

Weimaraner said:


> ...someone who pays $1200-$2800 for international maintenance fees would be discouraged from LMR and last minute Marketplace ad...



How is anyone discouraged from placing a last minute rental ad in the market place?  There is no restriction on the amount you ask for or the dates you are trying to rent out.  LMR yes, marketplace no.


----------



## Beefnot

csxjohn said:


> I agree, a very bad idea to make this members only.
> 
> I responded to an ad in the classifieds, secured a unit from a "seller" then became a member. After that I found the forums so I think I did it a little bass ackwards but if I had to be a member to respond to ads like they do over at RedWeek, that seller may still be looking for a buyer.


 
Perhaps I misread the comment about members-only, but I understood the gist to mean that the forum would be open to all to view and reply, but that only members would be allowed to start threads.  If that was not what was being suggested, that's what I was suggesting.


----------



## Beefnot

thinze3 said:


> I could care less about the limit of $700, BUT ...
> 
> If you are worried about commercialization of rentals by raising the limits to $1000, then *you must have been really worried about it in 2001*. Because, back then you could have bought twice as much with that $700. Just saying.


 


Weimaraner said:


> I just don't buy that argument about being overrun by commercial brokers. Who can make a lot of profit for a $900-$1000 rental? Someone said they don't post sightings because people will rent them. So we're all so fearful that someone might make a buck off TUG that we shoot ourselves in the foot by avoiding sightings and high end LMRs?


 

I don't buy it either, but Denise guarantees that it will happen. And the Power That Be has run an unpublicized poll that clearly demonstrates most people prefer it the way it is. He might actually be right, I have no idea, but of course that is kind of moot since he also participated in that unpublished poll using his exclusive 1 Million Vote voucher.


----------



## csxjohn

Ken555 said:


> You don't get it. The entire point of my posts have been that I prefer an email summarizing all the new or modified listings, similar to the feature offered by the forum. I don't want to look at the marketplace, and especially have no interest in looking daily. I think it's quite cumbersome to have to specify exactly which resort(s) I am interested in renting in order to receive notification of a new or modified listing.
> 
> FWIW, I visited TUG via a web browser yesterday to look at the marketplace, and that was the first time I've visited using a web browser in many months since I just use TapaTalk now. And I intermittently review the daily emails I receive for the forums I subscribe to, especially on those days I don't visit via Tapa (since it's very simple to see all new or modified threads on Tapa).
> 
> Since the marketplace is the place to see all other weeks for rent that don't fit under the LMR guidelines, I think it would be nice to see what's available on a regular basis. But I have absolutely no interest in spending time daily to login and check out the site via web browser. I wonder how many unique visitors review rentals on the marketplace on a daily basis.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



You're right, I don't get it.  I don't know much about computers and fumble along every day on mine and I don't know anything about TapaTalk.  

I do know that you don't have to log in to view the ads in the market place.

I also know that I don't need daily emails to alert me when there are new ads in the market place.  If I'm interested in a particular area I don't want to search through the emails then the ads to see what might be a good fit.

But as I said, I don't really know how it all works. 

 I'm in favor of anything that will make it easier for anyone to have better and easier access to what they are looking for here on TUG.


----------



## TUGBrian

Ken555 said:


> I see this setting. However, it seems to require I specify exactly which resort I am interested in watching, or a group of specific resorts. I prefer the daily email (and quick view via Tapa) of the LMR forum since it includes all listings, including those I might not have thought of and yet could be interested in. I've rented from this list before and wouldn't have ever found them on the marketplace if I had to search by resort. Food for thought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



well I suppose you could add every resort if thats your goal!

that would result in a good number of emails though =)


----------



## TUGBrian

I do have a plan in place to establish a "rental homepage" that will be much more visually friendly than the existing marketplace.

what it sounds like you are looking for is a "daily digest" of new ads posted that day?

note that you can click "all for sale" and "all for rent" ads to view every one of them...and you can sort your view by any column in the marketplace results view.

if you want to see the most recent ones at the top, click the column that contains the expiration date...and you will see the most recent ads sorted for you from top to bottom.

for example, here is a query of all the bargain basement ads listed in the marketplace (under $500 bucks)

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=

you can sort the view by any column you like to achieve the results you are looking for...all marketplace results pages are essentially like excel spreadsheets in this functionality.

hopefully that helps!


----------



## DeniseM

I'm going to post one more time, and then I give up.

My main concern is that your average Tugger's posts will be lost in a sea of commercial Ads.  There are already a lot of commercial Ads at $700, but not so many that it overwhelms the forum - it's manageable.  (By the way, contrary to what some have posted, it's NOT against forum rules for commercial entities to post Ads on the LMR forum, as long as they comply with forum rules.)

Common sense tell us that if there are a lot of commercial Ads at $700, then at $1,000 or more, we will see MANY more commercial Ads, because yes,* a commercial renter absolutely CAN make money at that rate.*  Perhaps the average Tugger, with little rental experience can't, but a commercial business with lots of inventory, and access to discounted inventory at the last minute, absolutely can. 

Therefore, raising the rate will make the forum MUCH more attractive to commercial entities, and we will see MANY more commercial renters with a large number of Ads.
*
Do I care if people make money on the LMR Forum? - of course not - that's not what this is about - more power to them.

Do I care if they overwhelm the forum, and it's no longer an effective outlet for your average Tugger? - I certainly do.

Also - with many more commercial Ads, it will require a lot more moderating.*


----------



## Elan

DeniseM said:


> I'm going to post one my time, and then I give up.
> 
> My main concern is that your average Tugger's posts will be lost in a sea of commercial Ads.  There are already a lot of commercial Ads at $700, but not so many that it overwhelms the forum - it's manageable.  (By the way, contrary to what some have posted, it's NOT against forum rules for commercial entities to post Ads on the LMR forum, as long as they comply with forum rules.)
> 
> Common sense tell us that if there are a lot of commercial Ads at $700, then at $1,000 or more, we will see MANY more commercial Ads, because yes,* a commercial renter absolutely CAN make money at that rate.*  Perhaps the average Tugger, with little rental experience can't, but a commercial business with lots of inventory, and access to discounted inventory at the last minute absolutely can.
> 
> Therefore, raising the rate will make the forum MUCH more attractive to commercial entities, and we will see MANY more commercial renters with a large number of Ads.
> *
> Do I care if people make money on the LMR Forum? - of course not - that's not what this is about - more power to them.
> 
> Do I care if they overwhelm the forum, and it's no longer an effective outlet for your average Tugger? - I certainly do.
> 
> Also - with many more commercial Ads, it will require a lot more moderating.*



  FWIW, I agree completely.  

  Regardless, it all boils down to whether one views LMR as a "rent it or get nothing" venue, or something else.  I'm pretty sure, and Brian/Denise can clarify if I'm wrong, the original intent was to help members of the TUG community (i.e not commercial entities) hopefully recoup something for weeks that will otherwise go unused.  If one sees the forum in that context, it's fine the way it is.  I can say without hesitation that if I owned a Marriott week with $2K MF's that I suddenly couldn't use, $700 in rent would sound infinitely more appealing than $0 in rent.  Maybe that's just me...........


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> what it sounds like you are looking for is a "daily digest" of new ads posted that day?




Yes. Individual emails for each resort would not be welcome and I won't bother subscribing if that's the way it is currently.

Perhaps you might write some code to automatically create a thread here for each marketplace ad with the basic info (resort, unit size, date, amount) in a read-only "Marketplace" forum, with a link to the marketplace ad in the post. This would permit us to leverage the forum software for viewing, searching and email notifications (and for those of us using Tapa) to see what is listed. I can't image this to be too difficult and would likely expand the audience of marketplace listings.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## ace2000

DeniseM said:


> I'm going to post one more time, and then I give up.



Denise, to me, you're just preaching to the choir.  And I would guess to most of the others that are not renters.  I totally agree with everything you've stated.


----------



## TUGBrian

Ken555 said:


> Yes. Individual emails for each resort would not be welcome and I won't bother subscribing if that's the way it is currently.
> 
> Perhaps you might write some code to automatically create a thread here for each marketplace ad with the basic info (resort, unit size, date, amount) in a read-only "Marketplace" forum, with a link to the marketplace ad in the post. This would permit us to leverage the forum software for viewing, searching and email notifications (and for those of us using Tapa) to see what is listed. I can't image this to be too difficult and would likely expand the audience of marketplace listings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



eh, the forums are not intended to be a place to list regular timeshare ads.

Im not opposed to creating a link on the marketplace that would provide a "daily digest" of new ads though.


----------



## dioxide45

DeniseM said:


> I'm going to post one more time, and then I give up.
> 
> My main concern is that your average Tugger's posts will be lost in a sea of commercial Ads.  There are already a lot of commercial Ads at $700, but not so many that it overwhelms the forum - it's manageable.  (By the way, contrary to what some have posted, it's NOT against forum rules for commercial entities to post Ads on the LMR forum, as long as they comply with forum rules.)
> 
> Common sense tell us that if there are a lot of commercial Ads at $700, then at $1,000 or more, we will see MANY more commercial Ads, because yes,* a commercial renter absolutely CAN make money at that rate.*  Perhaps the average Tugger, with little rental experience can't, but a commercial business with lots of inventory, and access to discounted inventory at the last minute, absolutely can.
> 
> Therefore, raising the rate will make the forum MUCH more attractive to commercial entities, and we will see MANY more commercial renters with a large number of Ads.
> *
> Do I care if people make money on the LMR Forum? - of course not - that's not what this is about - more power to them.
> 
> Do I care if they overwhelm the forum, and it's no longer an effective outlet for your average Tugger? - I certainly do.
> 
> Also - with many more commercial Ads, it will require a lot more moderating.*



IMO this is still speculation until it can be proven. Perhaps the rule that is limiting commerical activity isn't the price at all. Perhaps the 45 day cap is what is limiting commercial activity at its current level. Effectivly you could raise the price limit to $1000 a night and see no more commercial activity than you do at $100. Though increasing the 45 days to 60 may see a huge jump.

Unless the powers that be are willing to try to pilot any change for a period of time, we really don't know if there will be any change in commercial activity.

Even if there is more commercial activity, don't you have much more time now to moderate it now that you are retired?


----------



## TUGBrian

given that we already have had to do massive policing of the LMR section from a handful of commercial entities that just flooded it with individual posts...I dont think its speculation at all.


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> eh, the forums are not intended to be a place to list regular timeshare ads.



I'm just trying to think outside the box yet within the parameters that you've listed.



> Im not opposed to creating a link on the marketplace that would provide a "daily digest" of new ads though.




That would be welcome.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## dioxide45

TUGBrian said:


> given that we already have had to do massive policing of the LMR section from a handful of commercial entities that just flooded it with individual posts...I dont think its speculation at all.



Am I missing something? I don't see a bunch of deleted/locked threads in the LMR section.

There will always be people that don't read the rules or intentionally violate the rules by posting LMRs that are over the set limits.

However, shouldn't we see less and less commercial activity each year as the limits haven't changed since inception in 2001? Have we see a decrease in commercial activity since then?

If the goal is to limit commercial activity, the rules should be set that something can't be listed unless the only outlet is a use it or lose it scenario. That doesn't seem to be the case in many of the postings. Though I would agree that is harder to police.


----------



## TUGBrian

dioxide45 said:


> Am I missing something? I don't see a bunch of deleted/locked threads in the LMR section.
> 
> There will always be people that don't read the rules or intentionally violate the rules by posting LMRs that are over the set limits.
> 
> However, shouldn't we see less and less commercial activity each year as the limits haven't changed since inception in 2001? Have we see a decrease in commercial activity since then?
> 
> If the goal is to limit commercial activity, the rules should be set that something can't be listed unless the only outlet is a use it or lose it scenario. That doesn't seem to be the case in many of the postings. Though I would agree that is harder to police.



you wont see deleted posts anywhere on the forums...needless to say if all deleted posts were visible...the clutter would be enormous on all forums.

We had conversations privately with a number of commercial entities (And individuals) who were basically filling up entire pages of the LMR section with rentals.


----------



## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> This forum is not designed for regular for-profit rentals. It's for owners to recoup some of their funds when they find themselves with reservations that they can't use at 45 days or less before check-in.


 
What is the bright line distinction between LMR and Distressed?  One is owned reservations and the other is exchanges?  It is probably explained somewhere but I'm admittedly lazy today.

If the objective is simply for recoupment, then a <insert number here> limit to number of LMR threads that one can create over some period of time (i.e., per year) is really the key constraint.  Combine that with a membership requirement to create a thread in the LMR forum and I would imagine that fewer commercially-oriented individuals or outfits would find abuse of LMR to be as enterprising an undertaking.



TUGBrian said:


> you wont see deleted posts anywhere on the forums...needless to say if all deleted posts were visible...the clutter would be enormous on all forums.
> 
> We had conversations privately with a number of commercial entities (And individuals) who were basically filling up entire pages of the LMR section with rentals.


 
If folks are continually abusing rules, wouldn't they be banned?


----------



## LAX Mom

I've been following this thread, but haven't posted yet. 

I agree with Denise that the commercial activity would be a negative result of increasing the $$ limit on the LMR boards. 

I don't rent out my weeks, so I've never used the forums for this purpose. Obviously the MF's have increased in the past years, but I view the LMR threads as a way for owners to get something for a week that might otherwise remain empty. $700 is reasonable considering it's last minute availability. I've seen some prime resorts go unrented in the LMR. Some places (Hawaii & others) are expensive to get to at the last minute. Once I had an extra studio at Westin Kaanapali Villas that I offered for free in LMR and no one was able to use it. 

I'd like to see the LMR stay at $700 per week, $100 per night.


----------



## tschwa2

I think that those that really want to use it for commercial activity will just find the inventory that will still be profitable to offer.  All within the current rules.  They are in a better position to work with it and make it work.  Most of the high end stuff doesn't get taken because people don't want to post here until really last minute when it doesn't really help most of us out.


----------



## TUGBrian

Beefnot said:


> If folks are continually abusing rules, wouldn't they be banned?



wasnt a violation of the rules at the time.


----------



## dioxide45

So is there going to be any change to the current guidelines/rules? It seems no, but why have us continue to argue our points if they are fruitless. Unless it is just for the entertainment value?

Just make a statement one way or the other if thing will change or not, then lock the thread. Put us out of our misery!

No reason it shouldn't end like this and this thread on the same subject.


----------



## Beefnot

I've been surprised that the debate has been allowed to go on so long. Locking threads is the way TB rolls.

But before that happens, one last, albeit pointless, re-tread comment: $100 per night regardless of size makes no logical sense.


----------



## Passepartout

If the LMR forum were simply closed, TUGgers would have to recoup a few shekels from unused- or unrented, distressed weeks from Craigs List, or a local classified or 'Thrifty Nickel'. THEN $100/night for posting on TUG would seem like a windfall.

Be careful what you wish for.

Jim


----------



## dioxide45

Passepartout said:


> If the LMR forum were simply closed, TUGgers would have to recoup a few shekels from unused- or unrented, distressed weeks from Craigs List, or a local classified or 'Thrifty Nickel'. THEN $100/night for posting on TUG would seem like a windfall.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for.
> 
> Jim



We really don't know how many units rent for $100 a night on the LMR forum anyway. There is no data to support it. We also don't know how many weeks go rented or unrented. A poll may help, but there is no way to control who votes and who doesn't. So without data, people may be doing just as well or perhaps not as well as CL or other venues.


----------



## Elan

I'd like to propose a max of 50% of maintenance fees.  Gives the renter a break to secure expensive last minute airfare, scales with unit value, and is easy to calculate.  And it's still infinitely more than $0. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## dioxide45

Elan said:


> I'd like to propose a max of 50% of maintenance fees.  Gives the renter a break to secure expensive last minute airfare, scales with unit value, and is easy to calculate.  And it's still infinitely more than $0.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



The problem with that is that in most cases we (nor the mods) have any idea what the persons MFs are. Then if you get someone with a points ressie involved, it gets even messier.

There is no ideal solution. Now I say leave it as it is and we end the misery.


----------



## Bigrob

Elan said:


> I'd like to propose a max of 50% of maintenance fees.  Gives the renter a break to secure expensive last minute airfare, scales with unit value, and is easy to calculate.  And it's still infinitely more than $0.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



It might be easy for the owner to calculate, but not for the mods, who would not necessarily know every possible MF for every timeshare offered on LMR. I've been following the thread for awhile with interest. On the one hand, I do see the merits of an increase in keeping with the inflationary aspects of both maintenance fees and the cost of alternative arrangements (I remember when Motel 6 was so named because they had $6/night rates). Many hotel rooms exceed $100/night now even in secondary markets. And I think we have to balance the value of a "simple" rule against the obvious disparity associated with a studio or 1BR versus a 3+BR unit. Limiting the rent amount by definition limits the selection available in LMR, and that is not necessarily to the benefit of either the renter or owner. The renter gets less inventory, the owner has less opportunity to find a renter.

But the other side is equally true; there are other venues for higher-priced rentals, and the forums are not intended to be a marketplace or advertising venue. I actually think it might make sense to remove the limits altogether and to move LMR and LMW out of the forums and have them in the marketplace instead - a separate section that would allow for people to search for LMR's; a place where owners could list their LMRs regardless of price, based on the fact that they are Last Minute (45 days) rather than an arbitrary price point. 

Just a thought. 

Carrying it through further, you would need to be a member to list a LMR, but not to make an offer on it. Probably you would count anything above a certain number of LMR's - maybe 5 - against the 25 total listings. This would mitigate against the concern of the LMR's being overrun by commercial entities.


----------



## Elan

dioxide45 said:


> The problem with that is that in most cases we (nor the mods) have any idea what the persons MFs are. Then if you get someone with a points ressie involved, it gets even messier.
> 
> There is no ideal solution. Now I say leave it as it is and we end the misery.



Simple.  Make the owner include a screen shot of their MF bill in their post. 

My post was made almost entirely tongue-in-cheek.  But I WAS trying to show that there's more than one perspective to the issue. 

Whatever best keeps those trying to turn a profit from ruining the LMR forum works for me. The current rules seem to largely accomplish that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## TUGBrian

perfect example of my argument above...since ive let the topic carry on to answer legitimate questions...I now see complaints that the thread should have been closed long ago.

had I closed it long ago...id get complaints that I am just ignoring everyone.

cant help but laugh =)


----------



## dioxide45

TUGBrian said:


> perfect example of my argument above...since ive let the topic carry on to answer legitimate questions...I now see complaints that the thread should have been closed long ago.
> 
> had I closed it long ago...id get complaints that I am just ignoring everyone.
> 
> cant help but laugh =)



Long ago? That statement was made at 8:24pm. About an hour and forty five minutes ago.


----------



## TUGBrian

I personally could care less that someones MF is in terms of the LMR section, the purpose of that forum is not for someone to make a profit...its to offer last minute deals to recoup some money for an otherwise unused interval.

If it were to be raised, it would certainly only be a trivial amount, I believe the average maint fee these days is 800ish dollars...and as a reasonable person I can see a valid argument in having the limit of the LMR section to at least be on par with the average timeshare maint fee.

however that only raises the per night limit to what, 115 a night?  I fear that will not silence the mob to have the put down their torches and pitchforks.


----------



## TUGBrian

dioxide45 said:


> Long ago? That statement was made at 8:24pm. About an hour and forty five minutes ago.



"long ago" includes the number of deleted posts from far more than an hour ago saying the same thing.

fact is, it just reinforces the point that no matter what decision is made..if its not the one you want...you are going to complain.  and if it is the one you want, the people who disagree with you are going to complain.


----------



## tschwa2

Why not go down to $600 for studios, $700 for one bedroom and $800 for 2 br or larger?


----------



## dioxide45

TUGBrian said:


> "long ago" includes the number of deleted posts from far more than an hour ago saying the same thing.
> 
> fact is, it just reinforces the point that no matter what decision is made..if its not the one you want...you are going to complain.  and if it is the one you want, the people who disagree with you are going to complain.



We won't be able to complain if you follow other said advice and lock the thread


----------



## TUGBrian

I know you wont...others will =)

but id personally like to hear legitimate comments before any decision is made..so if im going to hear one side complain...I might as well get something out of it!


----------



## dioxide45

TUGBrian said:


> I know you wont...others will =)



Of course it would take a couple years for the subject to come back up. So you would have some reprieve.



> but id personally like to hear legitimate comments before any decision is made..so if im going to hear one side complain...I might as well get something out of it!



I do appreciate hearing us out. It just doesn't seem like it is helping. In one post you indicate you are not against a change, but then in another you seem to adamantly defend the current policy. It is just hard to tell where any of our comments/suggestion are going.


----------



## Beefnot

TUGBrian said:


> "long ago" includes the number of deleted posts from far more than an hour ago saying the same thing.
> 
> fact is, it just reinforces the point that no matter what decision is made..if its not the one you want...you are going to complain. and if it is the one you want, the people who disagree with you are going to complain.


 
If the decision was going to be based on who complains the most, I am doubtful that a proposal such as $700 for studios, $800 for 1BR, and $900 for 2BRs would generate more complaints from those wanting to cap everything at $700 than those who would prefer a tiered cap.


----------



## NTHC

Let me state only that it matters not to me what the rule is.  Only that whatever it is that everyone follows it.  I have rented to and from hundreds of TUG members over the years.  

I will share only an experience.  I saw a stay advertised on the LMR board today.  I felt it was an exceptional deal.  I found a potential renter.  I was told the stay was available.  I added $150 to the LMR offer and told the owner I would remove myself from the equation and send my renter direct.  I was told by the owner that TUGBrian suggested she advertise on the LMR board at the $100 per night and then upsell.  Which became $500 for two nights. 

Please clarify.  

Cindy


----------



## LAX Mom

NTHC said:


> Let me state only that it matters not to me what the rule is.  Only that whatever it is that everyone follows it.  I have rented to and from hundreds of TUG members over the years.
> 
> I will share only an experience.  I saw a stay advertised on the LMR board today.  I felt it was an exceptional deal.  I found a potential renter.  I was told the stay was available.  I added $150 to the LMR offer and told the owner I would remove myself from the equation and send my renter direct.  I was told by the owner that TUGBrian suggested she advertise on the LMR board at the $100 per night and then upsell.  Which became $500 for two nights.
> 
> Please clarify.
> 
> Cindy



You were offered a better deal than I was. She responded by PM that the two nights were $7500!! When I questioned the price, she responded that it was a typo. The correct price is $750 for 2 nights, more than 3 times the amount allowed on the Last Minute Rentals. I think she misunderstood TUGBrian's advice to her.
I agree with your statement that everyone should follow the rules of the Last Minute Rental board. What is the point of having this section if people can post for $100 per night and then privately ask more than 3 times that amount?


----------



## TUGBrian

this is the second report of this that I have heard today...I can assure you that I have never EVER suggested anything of the sort.

It is utterly absurd to claim that a bait and switch tactic was something suggested by me, or anyone on TUG.

I have also deleted those ads, as if the individual has no desire to uphold the price offered in the ad, the ad does not belong in the marketplace.


----------



## LAX Mom

TUGBrian said:


> this is the second report of this that I have heard today...I can assure you that I have never EVER suggested anything of the sort.
> 
> It is utterly absurd to claim that a bait and switch tactic was something suggested by me, or anyone on TUG.
> 
> I have also deleted those ads, as if the individual has no desire to uphold the price offered in the ad, the ad does not belong in the marketplace.



Thank you Brian!
So glad to know that you weren't suggesting a bait & switch tactic on TUG! I really didn't think you would promote such a policy.


----------



## siesta

Beefnot said:


> I've been surprised that the debate has been allowed to go on so long. Locking threads is the way TB rolls.
> 
> But before that happens, one last, albeit pointless, re-tread comment: $100 per night regardless of size makes no logical sense.


also, having it stay the same rate for 14 years doesn't either.

I think we're done here.


----------



## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> Why not go down to $600 for studios, $700 for one bedroom and $800 for 2 br or larger?



I really think this tiered approach makes the most sense. Perhaps even a Studio, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR levels. Could start at whatever determined price and go up by $100 for each unit size. I think including the price per night in the subject is very helpful also.


----------



## ronparise

I remember when I was a kid delivering the Washington Post door to door. I hated Thursdays. Thats when the food section ran. The numerous ads, and coupons etc made the paper really heavy on Thursdays. And for a skinny little kid like me it was a lot of work to get it done before school.  It didnt matter that I didnt like it, It made a ton of money for the paper, The advertisers loved it and my customers loved it.  I had customers that subscribed just for that Thursday paper. They would be up early to find the best deals, and plan their weekly shopping trip accordingly. My point is that it wasnt designed for me. Nor was it designed just for the advertisers. It was also designed for the consumer, and to sell more papers. 

I dont understand the fear of commercial renters overwhelming the regular guy on the last minute forum..The cream always rises to the top.  By that I mean the guy looking for a deal will find it whether its offered by a commercial renter or an individual. .and the ad that offers over priced accommodations will be overlooked, whether commercial or not. My feeling is that more choices would be better for the consumer. and any advertiser (whether commercial or individua)l will craft his offer to be one of the best offers there. I know when I advertise what I have for rent,  I make sure my offer is one of the cheapest.  Thats good for me, and the guy looking for vacation accommodations

So for what its worth, heres what I think:  Any advertising venue should take the needs of the advertiser and the consumer into account. TUGs last minute forum is designed for  one class of advertiser, ie regular owners that are in a use it or lose it situation.   Thats a good thing, ....for them. Not so much for the consumer. But if you wanted to make the last minute forum better and add some features to make it good for the consumer as well ie the guy looking for a last minute deal for his family, you would make some changes to bring in more advertisers, not less, 

My suggestion would be to make the forum true to its name. Make it a last minute forum, and forget price altogether.  Will it bring in more ads from commercial interests...probably. but wont that be a good thing for the consumer? and the more consumers looking the better for all advertisers, including the "regular guy"

One last note..Price has nothing to do with value.  $200 a night for a 3 bedroom on the beach on the 4th of July has a lot more value than a studio in the winter on Cape Cod.


----------



## tschwa2

dioxide45 said:


> I really think this tiered approach makes the most sense. Perhaps even a Studio, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR levels. Could start at whatever determined price and go up by $100 for each unit size. I think including the price per night in the subject is very helpful also.



The only problem I have with including the per night rate is that it brings an expectation that any number of nights up to the full date range are available at the per night range.  For many weeks owners that isn't the case. Even for many points owners the cost for the added hk may make the price go up.  If I advertise a week on the LMF and someone askes me about 3 days, they can offer whatever they think is appropriate but if I pm or email a rate for a a partial week (that I did not advertise for) that is above the original per night rate quoted then that should be allowed or even a statement to the effect of pm me for the rate of a partial week in the original post.


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> So for what its worth, heres what I think:  Any advertising venue should take the needs of the advertiser and the consumer into account. TUGs last minute forum is designed for  one class of advertiser, ie regular owners that are in a use it or lose it situation.   Thats a good thing, ....for them. Not so much for the consumer. But if you wanted to make the last minute forum better and add some features to make it good for the consumer as well ie the guy looking for a last minute deal for his family, you would make some changes to bring in more advertisers, not less,



From my perspective, I wouldn't even care about doing it that way.  However, include the price per night in the subject line.  Then I can easily skim over each post.  I really don't want to have to click through hundreds of posts to find a good deal.

However, if the forum gets bombarded with commercial ads, then I get to change my mind.


----------



## SueDonJ

TUGBrian said:


> this is the second report of this that I have heard today...I can assure you that I have never EVER suggested anything of the sort.
> 
> It is utterly absurd to claim that a bait and switch tactic was something suggested by me, or anyone on TUG.
> 
> I have also deleted those ads, as if the individual has no desire to uphold the price offered in the ad, the ad does not belong in the marketplace.



From the LMR forum rules:
_"FEE LIMIT:
Asking price for rentals offered (or "best offer") must be stated in the post. The maximum rental fee allowed here is $700/week or $100/day. This includes any fees paid to the owner (Paypal Fees, reservation fee, etc). Any fees collected from the user by the resort (taxes, parking, WiFi, etc) are not included in this limit."_

Is it possible that including "or best offer" in the forum Rules makes them ambiguous?  It also says that the maximum fee is $700/week so combining the two should mean that the "best offer" advantage is to the person renting the interval and not the person offering it, I think, but maybe not everyone interprets the rules that way?

This isn't the first I've heard of LMR posters increasing the price behind the scenes - I actually thought it was a common practice.    But if it's not supposed to happen what can be done about it?


----------



## DeniseM

SueDonJ said:


> This isn't the first I've heard of LMR posters increasing the price behind the scenes - I actually thought it was a common practice.    But if it's not supposed to happen what can be done about it?



When a Tugger reports it, we take down the Ad.


----------



## SueDonJ

DeniseM said:


> When a Tugger reports it, we take down the Ad.



Does a repeat offender suffer any consequences?


----------



## DeniseM

SueDonJ said:


> Does a repeat offender suffer any consequences?



Like any repeat violation of the TUG rules, they can be suspended or banned.


----------



## SueDonJ

Thanks, Denise - good to know.


----------



## ronparise

ace2000 said:


> From my perspective, I wouldn't even care about doing it that way.  However, include the price per night in the subject line.  Then I can easily skim over each post.  I really don't want to have to click through hundreds of posts to find a good deal.
> 
> However, if the forum gets bombarded with commercial ads, then I get to change my mind.



Why the objection to the commercial ads?  If its last minute, and offers a good deal for the consumer, I dont understand why you dont want these offers made available. .

But thats me. 

Because TUG Brian wants to keep this a place for owners that are in a use it or lose it situation, and because for many tuggers (at least a lot that have responded to my ads) a good deal is never good enough; You can find my good deals on Craigs List


----------



## ronparise

Regarding the Bait and switch. My experience is that the folks responding to my ads want the switch. Two examples. 

1) I advertised a 9 day reservation recently, for $900.  Not one caller wanted the 9 day reservation, they all wanted, 3, 4, or 5 days for $100 a day.....Sorry no deal. I had some shorter term reservations available to suit their needs, but they were $200 a night. 

2) Not the lmf, but I offered to give away some RCI points. several callers offered me money so they could get them. No deal I gave them to the first guy that called.


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> Why the objection to the commercial ads?  If its last minute, and offers a good deal for the consumer, I dont understand why you dont want these offers made available. .



Last minute means nothing to a commercial renter (in this case last minute is within 3 months).  If they can't get their price they can just cancel in time to save their points... or in some cases they won't even have their advertised week booked at all yet.   And if there is no limit, which you propose, I'm in agreement with Denise.  There would probably be too many ads to search through.

I'm really in favor of no change at all.  I think it currently serves it's purpose.


----------



## ronparise

ace2000 said:


> Last minute means nothing to a commercial renter (in this case last minute is within 3 months).  If they can't get their price they can just cancel in time to save their points... or in some cases they won't even have their advertised week booked at all yet.   And if there is no limit, which you propose, I'm in agreement with Denise.  There would probably be too many ads to search through.
> 
> I'm really in favor of no change at all.  I think it currently serves it's purpose.



I dont care what Tug Brian does with his forum... and I agree for its single purpose, (helping owners in a use it or lose it situation) it works. What Im suggesting is to expand things a bit. Make this a place where anyone can come to find a good last minute rental deal.  (sometimes $200 a night is a good deal) 


And you really dont know what last minute means. I dont even get going with my rentals until Im within 60 days of check in, and I routinely take reservations inside 15 days. If I have a good reservation I can actually raise my price as I get closer. Ive rented to folks standing in the resort lobby on the day of check in....now thats last minute..and there's not a lot of dickering. 

What I dont understand is why you think more good deals available would be a bad thing


----------



## Bigrob

ace2000 said:


> I think it currently serves it's purpose.



As has been said, it depends on what you think its purpose is. The current limits, which are the same as they were in 2001, serve a select few owners best (those with reasonably low MF's and/or smaller properties). It does not serve owners who have more valuable properties, nor does it serve potential renters who will never see most of the potentially valuable inventory to select from.

I actually think a "last minute forum" should be about the timeliness, not about the price. If there is a concern of the forum being overrun by commercial interests (to Ron's point, not sure why that is "bad" and to be prevented, but for the sake of argument, let's take that as an assumption) - then issue a limit or make it a section of the marketplace.


----------



## Passepartout

ace2000 said:


> I'm really in favor of no change at all.  I think it currently serves it's purpose.



Me too. Actually, I'm surprised that this thread has been allowed to go on as long as it has, with the TUG 'rule' about the common rabble not questioning the moderators decisions under penalty of expulsion.

I guess this is different than mentioning Fox. 

Jim


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> And you really dont know what last minute means.



It doesn't matter how you or I define "last minute".  In this case, the rules of the forum state 3 months prior. 



ronparise said:


> What I dont understand is why you think more good deals available would be a bad thing



Who's to say they'll be offering good deals if there is no limit, as you propose?  Perhaps I'm missing your logic.  And once again, the current classifieds offer exactly what you are proposing, why is that not good enough for you?  It seems to have exactly what you're proposing.  If I want to search for the type of "deals" you're talking about, why wouldn't I just search there?


----------



## ace2000

Bigrob said:


> As has been said, it depends on what you think its purpose is.



The rentees have one purpose and the renters have another purpose.  As a rentee, my purpose is to find a last minute bargain.  I'm not interested in clicking through hundreds of ads to find a deal.  The renter is looking at the forum as one more advertising path to rent their units.  We have two different goals and thus two different opinions on the issues here.


----------



## SueDonJ

Passepartout said:


> Me too. Actually, I'm surprised that this thread has been allowed to go on as long as it has, with the TUG 'rule' about the common rabble not questioning the moderators decisions under penalty of expulsion.
> 
> I guess this is different than mentioning Fox.
> 
> Jim



I've always interpreted that TUG rule to mean that if a post/thread has been moderated due to a violation, we shouldn't question/comment about the moderation within that thread because it morphs the topic of the thread from the original topic to a debate about moderation.  And starting new threads about moderation in one thread only serves to move whatever rules violations were involved in the original thread to a new thread, because doing so usually requires a recap.  But anyone should feel free to send a PM/email to a moderator if there's any doubt about the reasons for moderation - I always did whenever a mod got on me and I didn't understand why.    Now as a mod I'm happy to explain whatever I do if a TUGger feels a need to ask.

What's happening in this thread is different, isn't it?  I see the purpose of this thread, at least when it was begun, as a discussion about a TUG rule and not a response to a rule being violated.  Some similar threads in the past were locked but not all of them, only the ones that ended up contentious in the end.



ace2000 said:


> It doesn't matter how you or I define "last minute".  In this case, the rules of the forum state 3 months prior. ...



45 days in advance of check-in, actually.



ace2000 said:


> Who's to say they'll be offering good deals if there is no limit, as you propose?  Perhaps I'm missing your logic.  And once again, the current classifieds offer exactly what you are proposing, why is that not good enough for you?  It seems to have exactly what you're proposing.  If I want to search for the type of "deals" you're talking about, why wouldn't I just search there?



I agree with you and others, here.


----------



## PamMo

Ace2000 sums it up pretty well. From my experience, Tuggers are notoriously "thrifty" (to put it nicely) when looking for bargains. Just take a look at many of the posts in the Last Minute Rentals Wanted forum - or even the Rentals Wanted section of the TUG Marketplace. People are always requesting prime Maui oceanfront, Boston, NYC, California, Paris, etc., weeks for $700! 

Added: And sometimes they get their requests filled!


----------



## Bigrob

ace2000 said:


> The rentees have one purpose and the renters have another purpose.  As a rentee, my purpose is to find a last minute bargain.  I'm not interested in clicking through hundreds of ads to find a deal.  The renter is looking at the forum as one more advertising path to rent their units.  We have two different goals and thus two different opinions on the issues here.



I think there are sub-classifications of these broad groups whose goals are not aligned. A renter who is looking for something prime at the last minute has a different set of objectives than a renter who is looking for a cheap, last minute trip. And a "rentee" (owner) who has a valuable, prime offering has a different objective than the owner who has a shoulder season studio.

I think it is wrong to assume that all renters are looking only for last minute bargains. 

I'm not necessarily overly concerned one way or the other; most of what I would want to put on the LMR as an owner would fit within the guideline anyway, and it is really more a last resort (pun fully intended) for me as an owner. What I am concerned about is that the restriction is the same as it has been for 14 years and that offerings such as those SandyVDH refers to will never make it there for renters to consider. As a renter, I would want to see what's available last minute and have the freedom to make my own deal. As it is, I don't even bother looking because I know what I want wouldn't be listed there because of the restrictions.


----------



## TUGBrian

SueDonJ said:


> From the LMR forum rules:
> _"FEE LIMIT:
> Asking price for rentals offered (or "best offer") must be stated in the post. The maximum rental fee allowed here is $700/week or $100/day. This includes any fees paid to the owner (Paypal Fees, reservation fee, etc). Any fees collected from the user by the resort (taxes, parking, WiFi, etc) are not included in this limit."_
> 
> Is it possible that including "or best offer" in the forum Rules makes them ambiguous?  It also says that the maximum fee is $700/week so combining the two should mean that the "best offer" advantage is to the person renting the interval and not the person offering it, I think, but maybe not everyone interprets the rules that way?
> 
> This isn't the first I've heard of LMR posters increasing the price behind the scenes - I actually thought it was a common practice.    But if it's not supposed to happen what can be done about it?



while I dont disagree, in this case the individual put a very low price...and then flat out told people she wasnt going to rent it for that price and for them to "make her an offer"

that is complete abuse of the forum rules.


----------



## TUGBrian

ronparise said:


> Why the objection to the commercial ads?  If its last minute, and offers a good deal for the consumer, I dont understand why you dont want these offers made available. .
> 
> But thats me.
> 
> Because TUG Brian wants to keep this a place for owners that are in a use it or lose it situation, and because for many tuggers (at least a lot that have responded to my ads) a good deal is never good enough; You can find my good deals on Craigs List




I dont think anyone is against commercial entities renting on the LMR section, its happened since its been in existence.

What I think folks are afraid of (and its a valid concern, as its happened in the past)...is 2 or 3 straight pages of ads by a single commercial entitiy.


----------



## ronparise

ace2000 said:


> It doesn't matter how you or I define "last minute".  In this case, the rules of the forum state 3 months prior.
> 
> 
> 
> Who's to say they'll be offering good deals if there is no limit, as you propose?  Perhaps I'm missing your logic.  And once again, the current classifieds offer exactly what you are proposing, why is that not good enough for you?  It seems to have exactly what you're proposing.  If I want to search for the type of "deals" you're talking about, why wouldn't I just search there?



The current set up is just fine with me, It serves the intended purpose well.ie it gives the owner who is in a use it or lose it position another outlet for renting.

My point is that the person who is looking for a last minute deal would be better served with more choices, including the offerings from the various commercial interests. and my additional point is that price doesnt equal value.

I use the tug market place,too, my suggestions are to make the last minute forum better. Better for the owner, and better for the renter. (in my opinion)


----------



## taffy19

TUGBrian said:


> I dont think anyone is against commercial entities renting on the LMR section, its happened since its been in existence.
> 
> What I think folks are afraid of (and its a valid concern, as its happened in the past)...is 2 or 3 straight pages of ads by a single commercial entitiy.


Could these people post one ad with multiple rentals under a different section or is that too hard to do?

I am not going to argue about what price should be the limit here but I know for myself that I would never advertise a condo that is over 2,000 in maintenance fees for only $700. There are many other places where you can advertise or in the market place here.

I like the personal ads under the signature line. I am glad that they are allowed as I feel that I know and trust these people rather than a wild stranger.


----------



## TUGBrian

ads are not allowed in sig lines.

and per the other issue, if someone is able to rent their $2000 week on another location successfully, the LMR section doesnt apply to them anyway. =)

The LMR section is helpful however to rent that $2000 unit if its going to expire the first of july and you have no takers at $2000...someone might give you $700 for it though.


----------



## DeniseM

Brian - I believe she is referring to the "my website" links that we permit in signature lines.


----------



## TUGBrian

ah ok.

if you see someone with a link to a commercial or ad site in their sig, and or they are somehow promoting folks to click on the "my website" link in their sig...please report it.

nothing annoys me more than folks who try to abuse this rule, its one of the things right on the verge of being banned TBH.


----------



## LAX Mom

TUGBrian said:


> What I think folks are afraid of (and its a valid concern, as its happened in the past)...is 2 or 3 straight pages of ads by a single commercial entitiy.



This is exactly why I support leaving the Last Minute Rentals at the current amounts. If there are floods of commercial postings many of us would just ignore most of it and miss a TUGger's post because it's been moved to the 2nd or 3rd page. It would totally change the offerings & my interest in what is there.


----------



## taffy19

TUGBrian said:


> ah ok.
> 
> if you see someone with a link to a commercial or ad site in their sig, and or they are somehow promoting folks to click on the "my website" link in their sig...please report it.
> 
> nothing annoys me more than folks who try to abuse this rule, its one of the things right on the verge of being banned TBH.


I thought that was the whole idea and they had to advertise your website (link) on their website to reciprocate the favor? I liked the idea but you are the owner so you are the boss. 

Coming back to offering a resort for $700 when it would cost a person so much more, I would rather offer it privately to a friend then to a complete stranger on a BBS.

PS. What about my other question: "Could these people post one ad with multiple rentals under a different section or is that too hard to do?"


----------



## DeniseM

iconnections said:


> PS. What about my other question: "Could these people post one ad with multiple rentals under a different section or is that too hard to do?"



They can (and do) do that now - but they have to follow the LMR forum rules.


----------



## Passepartout

TUGBrian said:


> What I think folks are afraid of (and its a valid concern, as its happened in the past)...is 2 or 3 straight pages of ads by a single commercial entitiy.



Heck, if it came down to this, I'd give away the TSs I own and just vacation in $100/night LMR rentals. Give me one good reason to own a timeshare.

Jim


----------



## csxjohn

Passepartout said:


> Heck, if it came down to this, I'd give away the TSs I own and just vacation in $100/night LMR rentals. Give me one good reason to own a timeshare.
> 
> Jim



Ah, but you're forgetting that those 2 or 3 pages would appear when the price limit goes above $700/week.  Back to owning our timeshares.


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> well I suppose you could add every resort if thats your goal!
> 
> 
> 
> that would result in a good number of emails though =)




Fwiw, I had created one watch in the marketplace and there was a hit yesterday. 

Please take this constructively. There are many effective ways to notify members of listings that match their criteria. My earlier suggestion of leveraging the forum was to reduce potential programming time, use existing notification systems (email and Tapatalk) and perhaps provide a more engaging user experience.

This was the entire email (less a TUG logo) that I received last night regarding a match. Needless to say, the lack of details is unfortunate. I know it can be better. Please include the details of the match so we can decide if it's worth checking the site or not.



> DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL
> 
> Hello from TUG,
> This is an automatic email notifying you that one of the Timeshare Resorts you have configured in the TUG Resort Watch List has been updated! To view your watch list simply log in to:
> 
> http://tug2.com and click on the Resort Watch List link in the My TUG section.
> 
> Thank you
> Timeshare Users Group
> The first and largest Timeshare community site dedicated to timeshare owners providing the Truth about Timeshares for over 20 years!
> http://tug2.net
> 
> DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL




Sent from my iPad


----------



## VegasBella

*As a renter, I'd love to see all the ads in one place* that's easily searchable by location and/or price and/or date. If it's easy to filter the ads so only the ones that are $100/night or $700/week and within the next 45 days or whatever show then I don't see why it would matter if there were other ads that might come up with a different search function. As a renter it simply does not matter to me if it's "commercial" or not. And actually, I prefer the more commercial types since they usually know what they're doing.

As an owner, I don't really care. If I'm in the situation where I need to rent out my unit then I'll post ads everywhere I can.


----------



## TUGBrian

Ken555 said:


> Fwiw, I had created one watch in the marketplace and there was a hit yesterday.
> 
> Please take this constructively. There are many effective ways to notify members of listings that match their criteria. My earlier suggestion of leveraging the forum was to reduce potential programming time, use existing notification systems (email and Tapatalk) and perhaps provide a more engaging user experience.
> 
> This was the entire email (less a TUG logo) that I received last night regarding a match. Needless to say, the lack of details is unfortunate. I know it can be better. Please include the details of the match so we can decide if it's worth checking the site or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad


\

when you look at the watch list section it displays which resort has the new ad/review/etc...there is no need to look at each one to determine where the new alert has come from.


----------



## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> \
> 
> 
> 
> when you look at the watch list section it displays which resort has the new ad/review/etc...there is no need to look at each one to determine where the new alert has come from.




The pertinent info belongs in the email itself, just like the new/modified posts summary email for the forum. The easier it is to disseminate info, the greater the likelihood a buyer will be found. There should be no need to login to the site in order to see the new listing(s).


Sent from my iPad


----------



## TUGBrian

would require much more work than it seems...as there are hundreds of emails sent out each day to folks with watch lists setup.  right now they are all just the same email, it would be significantly more code to have individually tailored emails going for every watch list configuration.


----------



## csxjohn

LAX Mom said:


> This is exactly why I support leaving the Last Minute Rentals at the current amounts. If there are floods of commercial postings many of us would just ignore most of it and miss a TUGger's post because it's been moved to the 2nd or 3rd page. It would totally change the offerings & my interest in what is there.



I'm still not clear on why more ads is a bad thing as long as they are within the limits of time and dollars.

If the limit here were $400 there would be very few ads, so let's say the limit was $400 and is now raised to $700.  Presto, many more ads.

As the years go by the $700 becomes a better and better deal for renters and worse for landlords.

At some time the limit will have to be raised.  When avg MFs become $1,200, and they will, the $700 will be as laughable as my $400 example.

And if the limit were raised to say $800, that is a maximum.  There still will be cheaper deals, as there are now, the closer the check in date gets and how much pressure the landlord is under.

Ressies that can't be canceled will have lower prices.  If a ressie can be canceled, well, that's not what this forum is intended for.

I wouldn't care how many ads were listed as long as each followed the title line requirements.  I can zip through a few pages easily by seeing the location, resort name, and dates at a glance.  

I think I have formed an opinion on the rate at last.  I think a higher limit would be better for both landlords and renters.

It will give the landlord the ability to recoup a little more and it will give renters more units to look at.  Just because the limit is say $900 doesn't mean you have to pay $900.  Write to the landlord and offer $700 if that's all you can afford.  Or offer less.  If a landlord is under duress, anything is better than nothing.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

csxjohn said:


> And if the limit were raise to say $800, that is a maximum.  There still will be cheaper deals, as there are now, the closer the check in date gets and how much pressure the landlord is under.
> 
> I think a higher limit would be better for both landlords and renters.



I think that an unintended consequence of raising the limit to $800 would be that 90 plus % of the postings would be at the $800 limit.  Right now there are occasional posts at less than the $100 per night rate, but it isn't all that frequent.


----------



## VegasBella

TUGBrian said:


> would require much more work than it seems...as there are hundreds of emails sent out each day to folks with watch lists setup.  right now they are all just the same email, it would be significantly more code to have individually tailored emails going for every watch list configuration.




That's why folding the marketplace into the forum makes sense, less additional code to write/modify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> would require much more work than it seems...as there are hundreds of emails sent out each day to folks with watch lists setup.  right now they are all just the same email, it would be significantly more code to have individually tailored emails going for every watch list configuration.




I haven't worked on a vBulletin project, but I glanced at their API and it appears they support a significant number of their features via the API. Without examining thoroughly, it does appear possible to build a simple script to create a new thread in the forum automatically whenever a new marketplace ad is created. Obviously, you would have complete control over the contents of the posting, so you could automatically format the subject of each thread as you wish (ie. <resort name> <rental dates> <cost>) and include a link to the marketplace ad itself in the body of the post.

Likewise, I don't know anything about how you created your site or the marketplace system. But, since you have the automated email functionality already, it shouldn't be too difficult to add content to the email being sent...though I imagine by your statement that you are simply calling to a default email whenever the conditions warrant notification. If I was designing this from scratch I would have a script built which automatically scanned all new or modified marketplace postings and summarize them into a single email to whomever subscribed. I've had similar systems built before and this type of functionality is about a days worth of work including testing, give or take, depending on a lot of variables. I understand the desire to limit labor (much of what I do is explain to clients how to save costs with development projects by finding alternatives), which is why I am still suggesting leveraging the forum software wherever you can. 

Anyway, hope this helps. I enjoy the forum very much and continue to appreciate the info everyone posts here. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## TUGBrian

sorry, but there are no plans or intentions to implement the marketplace on the forums.

if anything, it would go the other direction.


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## Ken555

TUGBrian said:


> sorry, but there are no plans or intentions to implement the marketplace on the forums.
> 
> if anything, it would go the other direction.




It seems to me that they definitely do belong together. For myself, I value the push notification feature of TapaTalk for threads which contain a response to my comments (which I have not received here since you didn't quote my comments) or when other conditions are met. I find push notifications for items regarding time critical topics to be of more value these days since email is no longer always as timely and my inbox is quite crowded. That said, I still believe a daily summary email of all new marketplace matches, be it a particular resort or twenty or a Last Minute category, would be welcome and such email should contain enough details to determine if checking the website for a full description of a particular listing is worthwhile. 


Sent from my iPad


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## ace2000

TUGBrian said:


> sorry, but there are no plans or intentions to implement the marketplace on the forums.
> 
> if anything, it would go the other direction.



Thank you.  I can't even imagine what the forums would look like if that was the case.  

What did you mean by going the "other direction"?


----------



## SueDonJ

ace2000 said:


> Thank you.  I can't even imagine what the forums would look like if that was the case.
> 
> What did you mean by going the "other direction"?



I would assume "the other direction" would mean that if any changes were going to be made, the result would be fewer (or no?) ads allowed in the forums, that most (all?) would be in the Marketplace.  I'm also assuming that "if anything" means that there are no plans to make changes now.

Thanks from me, too, Brian, if what I'm assuming is what you mean.  But of course we all know what they say about assuming things ...


----------



## TUGBrian

Ken555 said:


> It seems to me that they definitely do belong together. For myself, I value the push notification feature of TapaTalk for threads which contain a response to my comments (which I have not received here since you didn't quote my comments) or when other conditions are met. I find push notifications for items regarding time critical topics to be of more value these days since email is no longer always as timely and my inbox is quite crowded. That said, I still believe a daily summary email of all new marketplace matches, be it a particular resort or twenty or a Last Minute category, would be welcome and such email should contain enough details to determine if checking the website for a full description of a particular listing is worthwhile.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



tis not out of the question (daily digest)...Ill see what we can do.


----------



## TUGBrian

tis indeed what I meant.


=)


----------



## DeniseM

I don't know how difficult it would be to set up, but a "daily digest" for new rental listings, and another one for new "for sale" listings would be awesome!


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## TUGBrian

as of now my "plan in my head" is to have a completely separate "homepage" for rentals, resales and exchanges.

We should at the very least be able to provide these options (recent ads, sorting features, search filters, total ad counts, etc) in a much more pleasing format.


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## VegasBella

It's smart to to merge the marketplace into the forums. Merging the two would probably double the number of resort reviews, too. It would be more helpful for everyone to make all the info more easily searchable and usable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian

there is no evidence to support that....and there is absolutely no link between classified ads and reviews.

also, the forums are simply not going to turn into a commercial marketplace


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## LAX Mom

TUGBrian said:


> also, the forums are simply not going to turn into a commercial marketplace



Thank you!!!!


----------



## uscav8r

csxjohn said:


> ...
> As the years go by the $700 becomes a better and better deal for renters and worse for landlords.
> 
> At some time the limit will have to be raised.  When avg MFs become $1,200, and they will, the $700 will be as laughable as my $400 example.



John, we are already there ($1200 average mf), especially when you consider larger units and combined lockoffs.


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## TUGBrian

uscav8r said:


> John, we are already there ($1200 average mf), especially when you consider larger units and combined lockoffs.



the average mf is not $1200...its in the $800 range.


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## uscav8r

TUGBrian said:


> the average mf is not $1200...its in the $800 range.


I'll defer to your industry-wide data/exposure, but doesn't it depend the system and specific resort as well on unit size? Guess I tend to be look at TS in the upper half of the spectrum. I realize there are a bunch of Massanuttens and the like out there that are low-fee, but a quick perusal of the HGVC and Marriott forums start in the $1000 range and quickly go up from there for 2BRs. Wyndham seems to be a bit cheaper in general, and even there it is around $900 for an older resort, and surpasses $1200 and beyond for the newer ones in prime season.


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## TUGBrian

well thats not exactly an average =)


----------



## uscav8r

TUGBrian said:


> well thats not exactly an average =)


"an" average, or "average"?


----------



## geekette

Still, we're talking about Last Minute.  If you own a high end resort with very large maintenance fees and want to rent it last minute, this may not be the venue for you until you exhaust other means.  Hopefully your plan to rent is well before Last Minute and you get cost + out of it.

We all have costs, we all make compromises when the chips are down.  If you don't want to offer your 2000 mf unit for 700, I understand that, but it does not mean that the LMR here is defective.

I am glad Brian does not want this to become Rental Site Central.  I'm very much in agreement to shove off the other listings to Marketplace.  I feel that the last minute boards are more of a courtesy than a MUST HAVE in the forums.

and please do continue to report abusers of it.  I am 0 tolerance for bait and switch.


----------



## LLW

geekette said:


> Still, we're talking about Last Minute.  If you own a high end resort with very large maintenance fees and want to rent it last minute, this may not be the venue for you until you exhaust other means.  Hopefully your plan to rent is well before Last Minute and you get cost + out of it.
> 
> We all have costs, we all make compromises when the chips are down.  If you don't want to offer your 2000 mf unit for 700, I understand that, but it does not mean that the LMR here is defective.
> 
> I am glad Brian does not want this to become Rental Site Central.  I'm very much in agreement to shove off the other listings to Marketplace.  I feel that the last minute boards are more of a courtesy than a MUST HAVE in the forums.
> 
> and please do continue to report abusers of it.  I am 0 tolerance for bait and switch.


I agree with every point.

The appeal of LMR to the buyer is that it's a potential rental that might happen because of the price + what the week is. I would be adding this to my pre-set plans that I have had for a long time. The $700 is about the highest I would do for impulsive renting.

The appeal of LMR to the seller should be it's money that might not be recaptured if not for that additional exposure in the forums. Regular renting should happen in the Marketplace, not in the forums.

I would look less in LMR if the allowed price is much higher than $700. $725 is OK, but what difference does the $25 make to high-end MFs, while making it more complicated?

I would not want to see more commercial renting than what is already there. Again, if there were more commercial renting in LMR, I would probably stop looking.


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## tschwa2

For me if upping the limit a hundred dollars meant that certain inventory would appear in the LMR forum 3 or 4 weeks in advance as opposed to 0-10 days in advance I would welcome seeing the additional inventory.  I agree $700 is a lot to pay for something that you have almost no lead time to plan. 

I also don't think everything would be listed at the highest level.  There is a market level even for LMR and a lot of people who list here realize that.  With more lead time the value would be higher but 4-7 days before check in it often becomes "make an offer".


----------



## Beefnot

tschwa2 said:


> I also don't think everything would be listed at the highest level. There is a market level even for LMR and a lot of people who list here realize that. With more lead time the value would be higher but 4-7 days before check in it often becomes "make an offer".


 
Precisely.


----------



## twinmommy19

What I find kind of unfair about the last minute forum is that it severely favors lock out units because there is a "loophole" which allows those units to potentially be posted for double the $700 minimum by listing each lock out piece for $700.  I've seen people do this often with Massanutten and Williamsburg properties (actually the Kings Creek Estates locks out 3 ways so you someone could technically even post there for $2,100 I suppose).  I think it's unfair to (for example) a South Carolina Marriott owner whose unit has a higher overall maintenance fee and is higher demand but doesn't lock out so all they can do is ask for $700 for their whole 2BR.  I'm not sure there is a way to fully resolve this though.  I guess no system is perfect.


----------



## geekette

bonk2boy said:


> What I find kind of unfair about the last minute forum is that it severely favors lock out units because there is a "loophole" which allows those units to potentially be posted for double the $700 minimum by listing each lock out piece for $700.  I've seen people do this often with Massanutten and Williamsburg properties (actually the Kings Creek Estates locks out 3 ways so you someone could technically even post there for $2,100 I suppose).  I think it's unfair to (for example) a South Carolina Marriott owner whose unit has a higher overall maintenance fee and is higher demand but doesn't lock out so all they can do is ask for $700 for their whole 2BR.  I'm not sure there is a way to fully resolve this though.  I guess no system is perfect.



All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.


----------



## Beefnot

geekette said:


> All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.


 
Streeeeeeeeeeetch.  The LMR forum is a listing forum, not an ownership forum.


----------



## twinmommy19

> All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.



Beefnot is right.  It's one thing when you make a decision to buy and forego the trading / owning privileges that having a lock out offer.  But this is listing site that is supposed to offer the same last minute financial recoupment opportunity for all (at least in theory).  Lock off units are not even available in all locations.  I gave South Carolina as the example because none of the nice beach front properties there lock off (even non-Marriott).  I'm not saying that there is a good solution here, or that I wouldn't take advantage with my own 4BR lock out unit if I ever had to rent it last minute myself.  I was just commenting that the loophole does exist...


----------



## geekette

bonk2boy said:


> Beefnot is right.  It's one thing when you make a decision to buy and forego the trading / owning privileges that having a lock out offer.  *But this is listing site that is supposed to offer the same last minute financial recoupment opportunity for all* (at least in theory).  Lock off units are not even available in all locations.  I gave South Carolina as the example because none of the nice beach front properties there lock off (even non-Marriott).  I'm not saying that there is a good solution here, or that I wouldn't take advantage with my own 4BR lock out unit if I ever had to rent it last minute myself.  I was just commenting that the loophole does exist...



I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site".  Last Minute Rentals are *a courtesy* extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment.  if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.

I don't think " a loophole exists " but if one wanted to try to make profit renting Loophole Eligible Timeshares, they sure can.  For everyone else, use Marketplace, eBay, Craig's List, Red Week, VRBO...  where there are no limits.


----------



## Beefnot

geekette said:


> I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site". Last Minute Rentals are *a courtesy* extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment. if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.
> 
> I don't think " a loophole exists " but if one wanted to try to make profit renting Loophole Eligible Timeshares, they sure can. For everyone else, use Marketplace, eBay, Craig's List, Red Week, VRBO... where there are no limits.




I assume bonk2boy misspoke. LMR is not a listing "site", it is a listing "forum". And I presume you misspoke as well when you said "there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment."



TUGBrian said:


> the LMR section is designed as such to provide a last ditch effort to *get something for your timeshare interval that is about to expire soon*.


 
In other words, "recoupment".  Not necessarily full recoupment, but recoupment nonetheless.


----------



## geekette

Beefnot said:


> I assume bonk2boy misspoke. LMR is not a listing "site", it is a listing "forum". And I presume you misspoke as well when you said "there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment."
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, "recoupment".  Not necessarily full recoupment, but recoupment nonetheless.



Yes, semantics and misspokenness, thank you.

I tend to consider Recoup to mean Get Back, like made whole.  I won't bother looking up its dictionary definition as that's what I meant, so I got that wrong.

I am certain that Brian is not going to go around trying to find out who made 100% of costs, who made 5%, etc., my premise is that he's not offering/guaranteeing/implying that anyone can make their costs and he in fact is not concerned what anyone's costs actually are (I believe there is  Brian quote in this thread that bears this out), this is simply last ditch effort to get Something.


----------



## Beefnot

geekette said:


> Yes, semantics and misspokenness, thank you.
> 
> I tend to consider Recoup to mean Get Back, like made whole. I won't bother looking up its dictionary definition as that's what I meant, so I got that wrong.
> 
> I am certain that Brian is not going to go around trying to find out who made 100% of costs, who made 5%, etc., my premise is that he's not offering/guaranteeing/implying that anyone can make their costs and he in fact is not concerned what anyone's costs actually are (I believe there is Brian quote in this thread that bears this out), this is simply last ditch effort to get Something.


 
It is not technically wrong, but practically speaking recoupment can be partial or full.  However in the context of what bonk2boy wrote, I didn't read his point being that owners should have the opportunity to be made whole, but that the $700 limit creates inequity in ability to recoup a greater portion of their underlying cost simply based on unit size.


----------



## sue1947

Nine pages on this thread and multiple previous posts on a non-issue.  I really don't get it.  If you want to rent out your unit, utilize the tug marketplace, redweek, ebay, craigslist etc.  All have the option to post at any time.  All have a larger audience for potential renters.  Every thread/forum/listing site can't be all things to all people.  Trying to make everything conform to what YOU want is not realistic, especially if you aren't the one doing the programming.   Perhaps it's time to focus all this energy on something more productive.

I appreciate the LMR as a spot for non-renters to get something out of a week they can't use and can't cancel.   That's a pretty small audience.  If the $700 limit is too small, then use the tug marketplace, redweek, ebay, craigslist etc to recoup those costs.   If none of those work, then your alternative is likely to recoup zero of your costs.  

Personally, it seems to me that lots of you would prefer Brian eliminate the LMR completely to focus all attention on the tug marketplace.   Creating duplicate sites on both tug2 and tugbbs is a waste of time.  The person spending that time might just decide to consolidate.  That would be a shame.

Sue


----------



## tschwa2

But it is not a spot for non renters.  If it were it would have a 1, 5, or even 10 unit maximum per year.  

It has become a spot for those that either can cancel reservations without any (or very little penalty) and/ or for those with units that have MF of less than $700.

I looked back at the last month of LMR.
There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days.  I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up.  They are brokers for others.
There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each.  Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties.  Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.

So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.


----------



## twinmommy19

> I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site". Last Minute Rentals are a courtesy extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment. if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.



Beefnot hit it on the head - A listing site for rentals by definition is any place where you are able to advertise a week you are trying to rent.  So for all intent and purpose, the LMF is a special restricted "listing" forum designed to help owners "get back" (recoupment being the synonym) a portion of their cost when plans fall through at the last minute.  My point was that this concept doesn't always offer the same opportunity for everyone - that was all.   

BTW - I was certainly not complaining for myself.  I own a 4BR 4th of July week at The Colonies in Williamsburg.  My maintenance fee on that is $744 and the LMF would allow me to lock out this unit into two 2BR units and post each side for an ask price of $700 ($1400 total).  That would be a profit of 88% if I successfully rented both parts...


----------



## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> But it is not a spot for non renters.  If it were it would have a 1, 5, or even 10 unit maximum per year.
> 
> It has become a spot for those that either can cancel reservations without any (or very little penalty) and/ or for those with units that have MF of less than $700.
> 
> I looked back at the last month of LMR.
> There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days.  I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up.  They are brokers for others.
> There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each.  Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties.  Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.
> 
> So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.



I agree. The LMR forum doesn't seem to be getting used for it's intended purpose. As you said, If it were only being used by those with a week that will otherwise be lost there would be far fewer ads. I would expect to see the same number of LMRs as Distressed weeks in the Sightings/Distressed forum. That is clearly not the case.


----------



## twinmommy19

> I looked back at the last month of LMR.
> There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days. I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up. They are brokers for others.
> There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each. Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties. Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.
> 
> So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.



Yes - a lot of Wyndham postings...  Probably bulk points ownerships that also offer profit on average if reserved creatively enough at the $100 rate.  This goes back to my whole point.  I'm not looking to rent my Colonies unit, I like trading in II and wanted to own a big unit for family trips.  But in a perfect system I wouldn't be able to post my unit for 88% profit above annual fees while other owners of top resorts in high demand locations are barely covering half their fees.


----------



## geekette

So do owners with high value units never want to take advantage of a cheap last minute trip to a resort whose maint fees are 700 or less?


----------



## twinmommy19

> So do owners with high value units never want to take advantage of a cheap last minute trip to a resort whose maint fees are 700 or less?



I'm sure some might.  There are other variables besides the maintenance fees that play into the desirability of a rental.  The maintenance fees aren't even relevant to that at all because some of the nicer resorts have high purchase prices and low annual fees.  I don't think anyone is really saying that the LMF isn't a helpful resource, it's just that by default it clearly offers a better opportunity to certain owners than others.  That's all.  

Look - I also don't think it's fair that II allows an owner of a 3BR offseason week that's going to sit in inventory to place a pending request for a high demand 3BR week while the owner of a peak high demand 1BR holiday ski or beach week at a deluxe resort can only put in a request for a 1BR even if the trade isn't during for the "platinum plus" season that they own.  RCI does a better job of controlling this with the TPU system (but on the other hand gives studio owners way too much credit in terms of desirability relative to bigger units). 

Bottom line - There's no way to design a perfect system when it comes to timeshares.   However - the current rules of the LMF generally discourage owners of non-lock out units at nice places during prime season to post unless it is literally days before check in.


----------



## mblosser

*I vote for higher price points.  It's time.*

A vote for raising the limits and my suggestion on what might work.

I'd like to suggest that it is time to change the pricing limits for last minute postings. If you want to serve members better, you need more and better offerings in the Last Minute area. 

I have never seen any traffic or sales from ads I have placed in the marketplace. I no longer even try listing there.  Craigslist is still the king, even with all of its really vexing traits.

Based on my outcomes, which may be "just me", I feel, at least on TUG, Last Minute is where folks will congregate and find the best deals.

Proposed new price points:

Hotel/Studio $700
1BR $800
2BR $900
3BR $1000

Or

Sleeps 2 $700
Sleeps 4 $800
Sleeps 6 $900
Sleeps 8 or more $1000

When was the last time (if ever) the $700 limit was raised? Someone posted 2001.  So, with inflation of maintenance fees for 13 years, say at 4%, that is a 70% increase.  So, isn't it time to allow some sort of a COLA on this board, as well?

Practically speaking, I won't ever offer my best units (2BR summer coastal weeks), even last minute, for $700. Most of them are well-priced at $1100-$1400 weekly rates. If I could get $900 or $1000, I might be willing to take less on short notice.


----------



## csxjohn

mblosser said:


> A vote for raising the limits and my suggestion on what might work.
> 
> I'd like to suggest that it is time to change the pricing limits for last minute postings. If you want to serve members better, you need more and better offerings in the Last Minute area.
> 
> I have never seen any traffic or sales from ads I have placed in the marketplace. I no longer even try listing there.  Craigslist is still the king, even with all of its really vexing traits.
> 
> Based on my outcomes, which may be "just me", I feel, at least on TUG, Last Minute is where folks will congregate and find the best deals.
> 
> Proposed new price points:
> 
> Hotel/Studio $700
> 1BR $800
> 2BR $900
> 3BR $1000
> 
> Or
> 
> Sleeps 2 $700
> Sleeps 4 $800
> Sleeps 6 $900
> Sleeps 8 or more $1000
> 
> When was the last time (if ever) the $700 limit was raised? Someone posted 2001.  So, with inflation of maintenance fees for 13 years, say at 4%, that is a 70% increase.  So, isn't it time to allow some sort of a COLA on this board, as well?
> 
> Practically speaking, I won't ever offer my best units (2BR summer coastal weeks), even last minute, for $700. Most of them are well-priced at $1100-$1400 weekly rates. If I could get $900 or $1000, I might be willing to take less on short notice.



It has been stated here by Brian and other Mods that the original purpose of this forum is to give an outlet to people who would otherwise be stuck with their week.

You have just given ammunition to those who claim the forum will be over run with rental company ads if the limits are raised.

Your ads sometimes state that if you don't hurry the ressie will be canceled.  You are not the target poster for this forum.

All that being said I see no problem with people trying to make a buck off rentals in this forum and elsewhere and I think it's time for the limit to be raised a little but from the sound of those in power, you probably won't be getting a sympathetic ear.

I, for one check the forum daily but not the classifieds.  I'm not sure why I don't check the classifieds more often but I don't. I think it may be the ease of breezing through the forum when the subject lines are filled out according to the posting rules.  It seems the classifieds are a little harder to navigate.


----------



## vacationhopeful

csxjohn said:


> ...I, for one check the forum daily but not the classifieds.  I'm not sure why I don't check the classifieds more often but I don't. I think it may be the ease of breezing through the forum when the subject lines are filled out according to the posting rules.  It seems the classifieds are a little harder to navigate.



Same here. Marketplace - you have to know the resort names and look and look. 

But there are fewer offerings on the LMR thread than in the classified ads. The Classified Ads cover 12+ months of possible rentals. The LMR thread is limited to 45 days. Hence. else offerings.

There has been 1 or 2 posters in the past 3 years, who seem to post 20+ ads at a time. Then, that poster had 15-45 intervals available inside each thread. And then that poster would BUMP those great offerings. Mind you they had all low prices (way under the $700 limit at resort I mostly never heard of) ... but the swarming of their posts and the offerings at $35-60 per night, just made the $100 per night resort stays appear to be overpriced.

I was happy when those posts seem to go away. It was a royal PIA to paw my way thru them - esp when I was doing the NEW POSTS review.


----------



## Bigrob

Another thought...

I wanted to provide a real world example of why the current limits hurt everyone involved - both people who want to recoup something within 45 days of check-in, and people who would be interested in utilizing it...

I recently had a posting for a great unit (3BR Presidential Deluxe at Wyndham Panama City Beach) for the end of August. I was reluctant to post it in LMR at the max of $700 because I knew it was worth much more. It was also a split reservation, meaning I had to come out of pocket for $200 worth of guest confirmations. In the end, I felt like it was better to have a TUGGER get a great deal than to cancel the ressie. I had 3 people within 2 hours ping me for it and had to sort through which had the first real offer/commitment to rent.

The reality is, I could have canceled the reservation and made much more with the points in another reservation, but didn't. But I'm faced with the same situation again and am likely to pull the plug this time, and it is very likely someone would really enjoy the reservation even at a more reasonable rate of $1000 for the week. But because of the limit, they won't have the chance.

For me, the determining factor for Last Minute Rentals is LAST MINUTE. The rentals have a short "shelf life" here. If you price them too high, no one is going to be interested. But establishing an artificially low limit that hasn't changed in 12 years reduces the selection of what will be posted. If I'm trying to find a rental at the last minute - maybe my schedule suddenly changed and now I can take a week when I hadn't planned to - I don't want my selection to be artificially limited to low-end properties.


----------



## TUGBrian

vacationhopeful said:


> Same here. Marketplace - you have to know the resort names and look and look.



not really true, here is a link to all last minute rentals on the marketplace you can easily scroll through just like the forums:

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ClassifiedSearchResultsGrid.aspx?LastMinuteRentals=true

this link is also a sticky on the LMR forum


----------



## TUGBrian

Bigrob said:


> Another thought...
> 
> I wanted to provide a real world example of why the current limits hurt everyone involved - both people who want to recoup something within 45 days of check-in, and people who would be interested in utilizing it...
> 
> I recently had a posting for a great unit (3BR Presidential Deluxe at Wyndham Panama City Beach) for the end of August. I was reluctant to post it in LMR at the max of $700 because I knew it was worth much more. It was also a split reservation, meaning I had to come out of pocket for $200 worth of guest confirmations. In the end, I felt like it was better to have a TUGGER get a great deal than to cancel the ressie. I had 3 people within 2 hours ping me for it and had to sort through which had the first real offer/commitment to rent.
> 
> The reality is, I could have canceled the reservation and made much more with the points in another reservation, but didn't. But I'm faced with the same situation again and am likely to pull the plug this time, and it is very likely someone would really enjoy the reservation even at a more reasonable rate of $1000 for the week. But because of the limit, they won't have the chance.
> 
> For me, the determining factor for Last Minute Rentals is LAST MINUTE. The rentals have a short "shelf life" here. If you price them too high, no one is going to be interested. But establishing an artificially low limit that hasn't changed in 12 years reduces the selection of what will be posted. If I'm trying to find a rental at the last minute - maybe my schedule suddenly changed and now I can take a week when I hadn't planned to - I don't want my selection to be artificially limited to low-end properties.



if it was worth so much more, why didnt it rent in the marketplace or other rental site that doesnt have the 700 limit?  I dont see this ad posted in the regular marketplace at all?

Im not sure how this hurt the renter or the rentee?  you got some money for it vs nothing, and the renter got a great discounted vacation?


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## tschwa2

TUGBrian said:


> not really true, here is a link to all last minute rentals on the marketplace you can easily scroll through just like the forums:
> 
> http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ClassifiedSearchResultsGrid.aspx?LastMinuteRentals=true
> 
> this link is also a sticky on the LMR forum



but 9 of the top 20 (so almost half) are either listing the weeks for 2015 only or are showing a range of availability from now until this time next year.  Not really LMR when you do that search.


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## TUGBrian

hmm, might have to look into that query then...it shouldnt display those.


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## ace2000

Make the listings in the marketplace be required to have specific dates on the rentals and then everyone can sort by that column to see what really are Last Minute Rentals.   Allowing someone to list a range of multiple weeks is actually killing that process.


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## Bigrob

TUGBrian said:


> if it was worth so much more, why didnt it rent in the marketplace or other rental site that doesnt have the 700 limit?  I dont see this ad posted in the regular marketplace at all?
> 
> Im not sure how this hurt the renter or the rentee?  you got some money for it vs nothing, and the renter got a great discounted vacation?



It is posted in the regular marketplace. That you didn't find it might indicate part of the problem. I didn't want to specify in the forum because I didn't want to advertise in the forum.

Also, after I rented to a TUGGER, I had requests for a portion of the week on another site for $1895. But since it was already rented to a TUGGER, I had to tell them no.

I am not saying the renter was hurt on this transaction, because I did end up listing in the LMR. I am saying they will be hurt on the next one, because I WON'T list because of the limit, and they won't get a chance at it. That was my point. Sorry if it wasn't clear.


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## TUGBrian

I found only one ad by you posted for a specific resort (you used a different email vs your membership one)...it was only posted two weeks ago.


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## TUGBrian

ace2000 said:


> Make the listings in the marketplace be required to have specific dates on the rentals and then everyone can sort by that column to see what really are Last Minute Rentals.   Allowing someone to list a range of multiple weeks is actually killing that process.



that would destroy the search feature for folks looking for specific weeks.

those posting floating weeks can meet those criteria for folks searching...so making them post just a fixed week is not a solution.

we should be able to limit the query to "ending week" being 45 days out.


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## Bigrob

TUGBrian said:


> I found only one ad by you posted for a specific resort (you used a different email vs your membership one)...it was only posted two weeks ago.



That's the one. As I said, I didn't want to mention it because I didn't want to advertise it. I didn't list the first interval in the marketplace, only in LMR. My point is, this one won't ever make it to LMR  because of the limit. So for folks only looking at LMR, they'll never find it. If the limit were $1000 for a 3BR Presidential, they might.

FYI, I joined TUG awhile ago... I now use gmail accounts with no size limits but when I joined, I think I used my Verizon email... which has a tiny little size restriction that results in mail getting bounced a lot. So there is nothing nefarious about my use of a different email.

I'm only trying to point out the impact on both sides of the current restriction, and the fact is, the longer the restriction remains the same, the more it will skew to only being the very low end properties that make it onto the LMR. I agree with other posters who essentially said in 10 years it will be "the Last Minute rental for the price of a gallon of milk" and it will have one listing from Bayse VA in it.


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## ace2000

TUGBrian said:


> we should be able to limit the query to "ending week" being 45 days out.



Then it would be nice to split that "ending week" into a separate column so we could sort on that column (by clicking the heading).  If we had that capability then I would definitely be checking it out more often.


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## TUGBrian

not a terrible idea, ill see what we can do.


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## csxjohn

Bigrob said:


> Another thought...
> 
> I wanted to provide a real world example of why the current limits hurt everyone involved - both people who want to recoup something within 45 days of check-in, and people who would be interested in utilizing it...
> 
> I recently had a posting for a great unit (3BR Presidential Deluxe at Wyndham Panama City Beach) for the end of August. I was reluctant to post it in LMR at the max of $700 because I knew it was worth much more. It was also a split reservation, meaning I had to come out of pocket for $200 worth of guest confirmations. In the end, I felt like it was better to have a TUGGER get a great deal than to cancel the ressie. I had 3 people within 2 hours ping me for it and had to sort through which had the first real offer/commitment to rent.
> 
> The reality is, I could have canceled the reservation and made much more with the points in another reservation, but didn't. But I'm faced with the same situation again and am likely to pull the plug this time, and it is very likely someone would really enjoy the reservation even at a more reasonable rate of $1000 for the week. But because of the limit, they won't have the chance.
> 
> For me, the determining factor for Last Minute Rentals is LAST MINUTE. The rentals have a short "shelf life" here. If you price them too high, no one is going to be interested. But establishing an artificially low limit that hasn't changed in 12 years reduces the selection of what will be posted. If I'm trying to find a rental at the last minute - maybe my schedule suddenly changed and now I can take a week when I hadn't planned to - I don't want my selection to be artificially limited to low-end properties.



You still have the option of posting the rental in the Marketplace at what ever price you want.

As has been pointed out, if you can cancel the ressie and recoup your points you are not in a use it or lose it situation and that's what this forum is for.


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## ace2000

csxjohn said:


> You still have the option of posting the rental in the Marketplace at what ever price you want.
> 
> As has been pointed out, if you can cancel the ressie and recoup your points you are not in a use it or lose it situation and that's what this forum is for.



If Brian could split out that ending week column then TUG could provide two links - Last Minute Rentals (any price) and Last Minute Bargains (less than $700).  

Seems to be a good compromise.  If I was looking for something, I'd definitely check both of them.


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## geekette

csxjohn said:


> You still have the option of posting the rental in the Marketplace at what ever price you want.
> 
> As has been pointed out, if you can cancel the ressie and recoup your points you are not in a use it or lose it situation and that's what this forum is for.



Further, a reservation cancelled is an open unit another owner can pick up, whether a tugger or not.


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## csxjohn

ace2000 said:


> If Brian could split out that ending week column then TUG could provide two links - Last Minute Rentals (any price) and Last Minute Bargains (less than $700).
> 
> Seems to be a good compromise.  If I was looking for something, I'd definitely check both of them.



You have to remember that needing to use the marketplace forces you to join TUG.  Although membership is dirt cheap and renewable for free it still helps Brian pay some bills.

When I need a unit for myself or a friend I look in both every day.  I browse the forum almost everyday just to see what's there.


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## Egret1986

*I second that!*



TUGBrian said:


> there is no evidence to support that....and there is absolutely no link between classified ads and reviews.
> 
> also, the forums are simply not going to turn into a commercial marketplace





LAX Mom said:


> Thank you!!!!



There will always be two sides to this thing.  Those that "get it" and those that "don't."


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## presley

csxjohn said:


> You have to remember that needing to use the marketplace forces you to join TUG.  Although membership is dirt cheap and renewable for free it still helps Brian pay some bills.



I think it is only reviews that need a membership to browse.  I'm pretty sure anyone can view/message for sale, for rent and exchange ads.


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## DeniseM

presley said:


> I think it is only reviews that need a membership to browse.  I'm pretty sure anyone can view/message for sale, for rent and exchange ads.



Non-members can browse Ads, but only members can post Ads.


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## csxjohn

presley said:


> I think it is only reviews that need a membership to browse.  I'm pretty sure anyone can view/message for sale, for rent and exchange ads.





DeniseM said:


> Non-members can browse Ads, but only members can post Ads.



Yes, that is what I was saying, if you want to post an ad in the marketplace you must join TUG.  So if you have a LMR and want more than $700, join and place an ad.


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## Bigrob

csxjohn said:


> You still have the option of posting the rental in the Marketplace at what ever price you want.
> 
> As has been pointed out, if you can cancel the ressie and recoup your points you are not in a use it or lose it situation and that's what this forum is for.



Yes, I do have that option and do have the ad posted in the marketplace. And you are correct, I can cancel the ressie and get cancelled points that expire at the end of the year. I was more lamenting the fact that someone who might want the reservation won't get it, because they may only be looking at LMR and not marketplace, and it won't be listed in LMR with the restrictions there. Even TUGBrian didn't see the ad at first even though I'd mentioned it. 

I guess it really just depends on what you think the purpose of the LMR is. I thought the intent was to allow people who might be interested in taking a last minute trip, to look at available options from people who had units available within the next 45 days. Others obviously prefer that renters have a much more restricted view of available options and prefer they be forced to search the marketplace to find what they're looking for, and view that the purpose of the LMR is for owners to "salvage" something. If the intent is really that only people in a "use it or lose it" situation should post there - and I do understand that thinking, cut down on all the listings that are not at risk so only the ones that must be used are listed - then it probably needs to be restricted in other ways besides 45 days and $100/night.


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## TUGBrian

Bigrob said:


> Yes, I do have that option and do have the ad posted in the marketplace. And you are correct, I can cancel the ressie and get cancelled points that expire at the end of the year. I was more lamenting the fact that someone who might want the reservation won't get it, because they may only be looking at LMR and not marketplace, and it won't be listed in LMR with the restrictions there. Even TUGBrian didn't see the ad at first even though I'd mentioned it.



had nothing to do with your argument...I merely searched for ads posted using your email address, since you posted that ad with a completely different email than your other ads...it didnt show up.

as also stated, there is a link in the LMR section to the LMR ads in the marketplace as well...its not like we hide it =)


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## geekette

Bigrob said:


> Yes, I do have that option and do have the ad posted in the marketplace. And you are correct, I can cancel the ressie and get cancelled points that expire at the end of the year. I was more lamenting the fact that someone who might want the reservation won't get it, because they may only be looking at LMR and not marketplace, and it won't be listed in LMR with the restrictions there. Even TUGBrian didn't see the ad at first even though I'd mentioned it.
> 
> I guess it really just depends on what you think the purpose of the LMR is. I thought the intent was to allow people who might be interested in taking a last minute trip, to look at available options from people who had units available within the next 45 days. Others obviously prefer that renters have a much more restricted view of available options and prefer they be forced to search the marketplace to find what they're looking for, and view that the purpose of the LMR is for owners to "salvage" something. If the intent is really that only people in a "use it or lose it" situation should post there - and I do understand that thinking, cut down on all the listings that are not at risk so only the ones that must be used are listed - then it probably needs to be restricted in other ways besides 45 days and $100/night.


I'm not sure what the big deal is about someone 'being forced' to go to Marketplace if they can't find a deep discount deal.  

If I were adamant about going to Place X in Week Y then I'll uncover as many stones as I need to.  Being a tugger, Marketplace is a natural place to look if LMR doesn't have something for me. 

The internet is a large place, it's rare I can go to One Place to find everything I need but in this case, I have a couple choices under the same Tug umbrella.  People really wanting to rent something have a lot of advertising options.


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## ace2000

Bigrob said:


> I guess it really just depends on what you think the purpose of the LMR is. I thought the intent was to allow people who might be interested in taking a last minute trip, to look at available options from people who had units available within the next 45 days. Others obviously prefer that renters have a much more restricted view of available options and prefer they be forced to search the marketplace to find what they're looking for, and view that the purpose of the LMR is for owners to "salvage" something. If the intent is really that only people in a "use it or lose it" situation should post there - and I do understand that thinking, cut down on all the listings that are not at risk so only the ones that must be used are listed - then it probably needs to be restricted in other ways besides 45 days and $100/night.



In my mind, the LMR is a place for last minute bargains.  I choose to wait till the "last minute" because I'm flexible and I'm looking for a good deal.  If I wanted something that resembled your week, then I'll check out the Marketplace.  However, I do think the Marketplace has a ton of overpriced rentals that just clutter the search process.  

There is no need to complicate the LMR process further with the changes you've suggested - right now, it's very simple, I'm in favor of keeping it as is.


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## DeniseM

A gentle suggestion - ALL of these points have already been debated, and asked and answered, in this thread.  If anyone is really interested, you can go back and read the thread.


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## Beefnot

geekette said:


> If I were adamant about going to Place X in Week Y then I'll uncover as many stones as I need to. Being a tugger, Marketplace is a natural place to look if LMR doesn't have something for me.


 
Although LMR is also an opportunistic thing.  It's like casually window shopping and then you stumble across a Coach on sale for 80% off.  Cha ching!  Or you poke around in the Sightings/Distressed board and, voila, some posts about a summer Newport Coast Villas unit just sitting out on II.  Honey, we're going on vacation in 3 weeks!


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## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> A gentle suggestion - ALL of these points have already been debated, and asked and answered, in this thread. If anyone is really interested, you can go back and read the thread.


 
But then there would also be zero new TUG threads.  Why go back and read or research when one can simply post anew?


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## DeniseM

Beefnot said:


> But then there would also be zero new TUG threads.  Why go back and read or research when one can simply post anew?



Ya know, you have an excellent point there!


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## csxjohn

Beefnot said:


> Although LMR is also an opportunistic thing.  It's like casually window shopping and then you stumble across a Coach on sale for 80% off.  Cha ching!  Or you poke around in the Sightings/Distressed board and, voila, some posts about a summer Newport Coast Villas unit just sitting out on II.  Honey, we're going on vacation in 3 weeks!



That's exactly how I used the LMR recently.  A friend wanted a vaca on cape cod the second week of August and gave me a week and a half notice.

Of course there was nothing anywhere at a reaonable price then I saw a 4Br unit at Ocean Ridge in Edisto Island and I had just gone there in July.  It was on the LMR for $599, a steal.

I convinced him that he'd love it and he and his family did.  The renter got rid of the week and my freind got a beautiful vaca on the cheap.


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## TUGBrian

I personally have no problem with folks voicing their opinions on how to make the site better.


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## Sugarcubesea

geekette said:


> I'm not sure what the big deal is about someone 'being forced' to go to Marketplace if they can't find a deep discount deal.
> 
> If I were adamant about going to Place X in Week Y then I'll uncover as many stones as I need to.  Being a tugger, Marketplace is a natural place to look if LMR doesn't have something for me.
> 
> The internet is a large place, it's rare I can go to One Place to find everything I need but in this case, I have a couple choices under the same Tug umbrella.  People really wanting to rent something have a lot of advertising options.



I so agree with this statement.  Since I'm still working, when my schedule suddenly clears up and I can suddenly get some vacation time in, its usually in the 45 day window, at that point I look in the LMR to find a deal because I will be paying big bucks at that short notice for airfare.  I love that LMR is available because if I need to use it, I will at least get something vs nothing for my ressie.


----------

