# Temecula Wineries



## timesharejunkie4 (Mar 30, 2013)

I will be attending a meeting in Palm Springs mid April. I have been to Palm Springs several times but this time Dh and I will be flying in to San Diego and driving to Palm Springs. We thought it would be nice to check out some of the Temecula wineries anlong the way. Anyone have a favorite? We prefer reds if it makes a differences.


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## Rent_Share (Mar 30, 2013)

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Our favorite
 
http://www.temeculawines.org/wineries-vineyards/wineries/leonesse-cellars.php
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Based on Steve's posting I do not feel qualified to particulate in this thread


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## buzglyd (Mar 30, 2013)

Ponté is pretty nice in Temecula. 

There are so gorgeous San Diego wineries right off the 15 as you're driving North. 

Cordiano winery and Orfila vineyards are two of our favorites.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> Ponté is pretty nice in Temecula.
> 
> There are so gorgeous San Diego wineries right off the 15 as you're driving North.
> 
> Cordiano winery and Orfila vineyards are two of our favorites.



To each his own.  I thought Orfila was at best mediocre - what I would expect to pay more than $5/bottle for at Trader Joe's or in a supermarket.  Every one of the reds I tasted except the port was highly tannic, to a degree I would expect of a wine built to age. But the fruit had been allowed to reach the high degree of ripeness typical for the bold, drink now wines.  The results was something that to my palette didn't drink well now and had almost no potential to drink better in the future.  I gave the wines a decent chance.  I gave them ample time to air in the glass, with plenty of gentle swirling.  I made sure to take in enough air with sampling and let the wine round out in my mouth.  To no avail.  To my tastes it was all pretty jumbled and unintegrated.   I will grant that Orfila was the best of the Escondido area wineries I sampled during that trip.  

The port was decent.

The following weekend I visited a couple of wineries back in Washington that are reliable producers of the same varietals. I was curious to compare, just to ground check my impression of Orfila while my impressions were still fresh.  And my impressions of the Orfila experience were confirmed.   It was a pleasure to enjoy the same varietals but where all of the components were balanced and integrated.

****

For various reasons that arent' relevant to this thread, before the trip I spoke with an Orfila rep who mentioned that they had been trying to get their wines into several specific restaurants in the area.  I had the opportunity to speak with the sommelier  at one of the facilities in Escondido, and asked him about Orfila.  He said they were aware of Orfila and had been contacted by Orfila, but didn't say anything more and changed the subject.  Which I thought was telling.  That was before my visit to Orfila.  After my trip to Orfila I was pretty sure I understood.


I do have Temecula and Julian on the radar for future visits to San Diego County.  I like Escondido for a lot of reasons, but wine ain't one of them.


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## csalter2 (Mar 30, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> To each his own.  I thought Orfila was at best mediocre - what I would expect to pay more than $5/bottle for at Trader Joe's or in a supermarket.  Every one of the reds I tasted except the port was highly tannic, to a degree I would expect of a wine built to age. But the fruit had been allowed to reach the high degree of ripeness typical for the bold, drink now wines.  The results was something that to my palette didn't drink well now and had almost no potential to drink better in the future.  I gave the wines a decent chance.  I gave them ample time to air in the glass, with plenty of gentle swirling.  I made sure to take in enough air with sampling and let the wine round out in my mouth.  To no avail.  To my tastes it was all pretty jumbled and unintegrated.   I will grant that Orfila was the best of the Escondido area wineries I sampled during that trip.
> 
> The port was decent.
> 
> ...



A wine connoisseur, are you?


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## Passepartout (Mar 30, 2013)

Remind me not to open a bottle of 3-buck Chuck anywhere around Steve!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> Remind me not to open a bottle of 3-buck Chuck anywhere around Steve!



Depends on which Chuck you're pouring!


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## Passepartout (Mar 30, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Depends on which Chuck you're pouring!



Got a hint? News Flash! Trader Joe's to open a store in Boise! (2014) Whee!


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## eal (Mar 31, 2013)

Check out
 temeculawines.org
 for discount coupons at numerous local wineries. Our favourites are Cougar, Ponte and Renzoni. If you can't print off the couoons because you are travelling you can pick them up at their office at  Keyways winery.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 31, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> Got a hint? News Flash! Trader Joe's to open a store in Boise! (2014) Whee!



Actually all of the Chucks are fine for what they are.  They are to wine what a plain McDonald's burger is to hamburger. If  you've never had a burger before, there's a good chance you'll find it wonderful.  As a basic burger, it's cheap, consistent, and well-done for the price.  But after you've had enough of them you might start thinking of branching out a bit.  Each of the different types also provides an inexpensive way to get introduced to different varietals and find out which of those you enjoy most. That can provide a foundation for making some other selections when you want to try something different.

Among the Chucks, the Grigio and the Merlot are the ones that I occasionally drink.  Most often I open a bottle when we are cooking with some wine, and there's some left over.  For me the cabernet has too much residual sugar and is too "soft" - it coats my mouth and with the sweetness it's almost like having a spoonful of honey mixed with grape juice.  The sauvignon blanc is too flabby for my tastes; it doesn't have the sharpness and bite that I llok for.  The chardonnay is too oakey and buttery for me - but I know that oakey and buttery has become so common in chardonnay that when a bottle doesn't have those elements many people think there's something wrong with it.


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## GregGH (Mar 31, 2013)

timesharejunkie4 said:


> I will be attending a meeting in Palm Springs mid April. I have been to Palm Springs several times but this time Dh and I will be flying in to San Diego and driving to Palm Springs. We thought it would be nice to check out some of the Temecula wineries anlong the way. Anyone have a favorite? We prefer reds if it makes a differences.



Hi

maybe next time on the trip ... fly to LA and do the wineries just north of LA ... some very nice Pinot and a bit further north is Rhone style in Paso Robles ... time to watch the movie 'Sideways' again ...  ( ps...his line ...'don't give me no stinkin Merlot'.... is lost on many as this one treasured wine from Bordeaux was mainly a Merlot blend ... )   anyways these wineries have had more time to develop ... Temecula will evolve and get better ... also saw a storey when we were in Carlsbad this winter on Avocado growers ripping out trees and replacing them with grape vines ... grapes take less water ...but vines produce better wine as they  get older .... time ... give it time

Greg


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## timesharejunkie4 (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks to all for your replies. Steve, I wish I knew as much as you do. I would love to learn.


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## PassionForTravel (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm with Steve & Greg, even through I live about 45min from Temecula we just don't go there anymore. We either do the central coast (Santa Barbara wine country, or Paso Robles) or go further north to Somona County (Napa tasting rooms are a little to crowed ,stuffy,and expensive for my tastes).

Ian


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## buzglyd (Mar 31, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> I'm with Steve & Greg, even through I live about 45min from Temecula we just don't go there anymore. We either do the central coast (Santa Barbara wine country, or Paso Robles) or go further north to Somona County (Napa tasting rooms are a little to crowed ,stuffy,and expensive for my tastes).
> 
> Ian



I enjoy the local wines for what they are. I wasn't suggesting we had Napa quality stuff down here. 

Orfila has gotten a lot better recently. They have a new winemaker now who is head and shoulders above the previous one.

Cordiano is a great place to sit and have delicious pizza and look out over the hills of Ramona and Poway.

Hawk's Watch and Shadow Mountain are two, funky places in the hills of Warner Springs we also enjoy.


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## Passepartout (Mar 31, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Actually all of the Chucks are fine for what they are.  They are to wine what a plain McDonald's burger is to hamburger.
> 
> Among the Chucks, the Grigio and the Merlot are the ones that I occasionally drink.



Good analogy Steve. Thanks, and you've reinforced what I feel. Of the Chucks that find their way to my cellar, these are the varietals I choose. Whew! I was sweating that.

I can hardly wait for my palate to become sufficiently sophisticated and my wine lingo to become able to describe what my tongue sends to my hand.... Thumbs up or thumbs down.  

OK, you folks checking out Temecula can have your thread back now. Sorry for the detour.

Jim


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## buzglyd (Mar 31, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> To each his own.  I thought Orfila was at best mediocre - what I would expect to pay more than $5/bottle for at Trader Joe's or in a supermarket.  Every one of the reds I tasted except the port was highly tannic, to a degree I would expect of a wine built to age. But the fruit had been allowed to reach the high degree of ripeness typical for the bold, drink now wines.  The results was something that to my palette didn't drink well now and had almost no potential to drink better in the future.  I gave the wines a decent chance.  I gave them ample time to air in the glass, with plenty of gentle swirling.  I made sure to take in enough air with sampling and let the wine round out in my mouth.  To no avail.  To my tastes it was all pretty jumbled and unintegrated.   I will grant that Orfila was the best of the Escondido area wineries I sampled during that trip.
> 
> The port was decent.
> 
> ...



I have to agree with you however, I do find Orfila's wines much better now that they have a new winemaker.

All the local wineries will be a bit "overpriced." They don't make any money other than visitor purchases. We always take that into consideration.

It's still a gorgeous place to sit and pass an hour or two.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 31, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> Good analogy Steve. Thanks, and you've reinforced what I feel. Of the Chucks that find their way to my cellar, these are the varietals I choose. Whew! I was sweating that.
> 
> I can hardly wait for my palate to become sufficiently sophisticated and my wine lingo to become able to describe what my tongue sends to my hand.... Thumbs up or thumbs down.
> 
> ...



I'm not ready to detour back yet, because I feel a need to express my thoughts a bit more.

To connect in a sense with other TUG threads on burgers, I'm a wine connoisseur to the extent that people who post on In-N-Out or Five Guys are burger connoisseurs.  I know some folks who I would consider to be wine connoisseurs, and they are a whole different realm from me.

****

For the most part, I live in a world of $10 - $12/bottle maximum.  As I began to tire of cheap bulk wines and began trying different things I found myself tasting a lot of $20/bottle or more wines that I could tell were different from, and of detectably higher quality than, the bulk wines. But they really weren't significantly more personally enjoyable - at least not $15 or more per bottle enjoyable.  Meanwhile, I was finding bottles in the $5 to $10 range that were significantly more enjoyable that the bulk wines I had been drinking, and that to my taste also ran circles around many of those $20 and more bottles I had been tasting.  So, in the interest of finding things I could enjoy in my price range, I started to learn a bit more about what it was about those bottles that I liked that made them enjoyable. I figured that if I understood that, I could do a better job  of buying wine that I liked.

What soon became apparent is that much of the wine business for the smaller operations is much more about marketing that it is about wine-making.  If you have the right marketing, you can get people to buy crappy wine for $20 or more per bottle as long as they perceive that they are buying quality juice.  Sell the sizzle and not the steak.  At the same time, of course, there are producers who are selling wine quality wine for $20/bottle.  Then there are those enjoyable $10 bottles I was stumbling across were well-made wines from producers who didn't have a marketing machine to drive their product.  

Orfila to me was smack dab in the middle of the category of wineries that sell crap wine for $20 or more per bottle because they've done a good job or marketing themselves.

----

With all of that beng said, I do look forward sometime to visiting Temecula area wineries.  I do enjoy going into a tasting room and finding a producer who has a winemaking style that I enjoy and that does a good job.  That becomes a name to look for in the future, whether I am in a restaurant or I see a special on the product at a flash site.


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## GregT (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm not the biggest Temecula fan, and agree with the recommendation to drive up to the Central Coast.  However, for the person passing through who wants to try the local juice, I think Monte de Oro is the best winery in Temecula.

Their juice is pretty decent, but I agree with others that we're not talking about Napa here -- it's just what's the top dog for the area.  I think the climate and conditions favor varietals other than Cab and Chardonnay, so look for Syrah, Zinfandel, etc, in this area.

Best,

Greg


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## MuranoJo (Apr 1, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I know some folks who I would consider to be wine connoisseurs, and they are a whole different realm from me.



I've learned a lot by just lurking on Wine Woot (Steve, I think you may have mentioned this once.)  Also, for Christmas DH gave me two wine club gifts for a few months.  One was so-so; the other, Plonk Wine Club, is excellent IMO and I just renewed it.  They tend to feature ~$15-20/bottle wines from boutique wineries, and I've really enjoyed every selection they've sent. But what's also really great about them is they do a good job describing the wines, food pairings, and even send 5-minute videos for each selection of the month. (Also a good way to learn to pronounce some of the varieties, ha.) 

Overall, however, I prefer to keep the costs down to the $5-10 range, which is why I like to try some of the Grocery Outlet wines.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 1, 2013)

GregT said:


> I'm not the biggest Temecula fan, and agree with the recommendation to drive up to the Central Coast.  However, for the person passing through who wants to try the local juice, I think Monte de Oro is the best winery in Temecula.
> 
> Their juice is pretty decent, but I agree with others that we're not talking about Napa here -- it's just what's the top dog for the area.  I think the climate and conditions favor varietals other than Cab and Chardonnay, so look for Syrah, Zinfandel, etc, in this area.
> 
> ...


It's also not uncommon for a winery to bring the juice in from afar. I've seen wines produced from central and northern California coast vineyards in wineries throughout California (including San Diego), Arizona, Minnesota, and Hawai'i.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 1, 2013)

muranojo said:


> I've learned a lot by just lurking on Wine Woot (Steve, I think you may have mentioned this once.)  Also, for Christmas DH gave me two wine club gifts for a few months.  One was so-so; the other, Plonk Wine Club, is excellent IMO and I just renewed it.  They tend to feature ~$15-20/bottle wines from boutique wineries, and I've really enjoyed every selection they've sent. But what's also really great about them is they do a good job describing the wines, food pairings, and even send 5-minute videos for each selection of the month. (Also a good way to learn to pronounce some of the varieties, ha.)
> 
> Overall, however, I prefer to keep the costs down to the $5-10 range, which is why I like to try some of the Grocery Outlet wines.



Wine woot has been very educational for me, as well.

I moved up a bit from the $5/bottle range because it was too hit and miss for me.  I remember several bottles I brought back from TJs, that left me saying "I can't believe I only paid $5 for that!"  But there were too many others where I said "Why did I pay $5 for that?" I found that by increasing my upper range a bit and using the flash sites judiciously, I could score something worthwhile almost all of the time.


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## presley (Apr 1, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> Cordiano is a great place to sit and have delicious pizza and look out over the hills of Ramona and Poway.



I've never been there.  Looking at the map, is it the West Bernardo exit off of the 15, heading east?


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## golf4hrs (Apr 1, 2013)

I would like to comment on red wines in Temecula Wine Country.  The best for reds is Hart Winery.  It was recommended to me by a local Temecula resident and I will do the same.  Hart has won many gold awards and therefore recognized by their peers.  It is the first winery (few miles on the left) off the I-15 freeway via Rancho California Rd going east.  They base their business on a small family concept.  Quality first and less than 5000 cases annually.  

The 2010 Sangiovese for $28/btl is my personal recommendation if there is any left in mid-April (only 120 cases made).  I met the owner, Joe Hart and his son, Jim Hart.  Nowhere else can you meet the actual owners of a winery.  Jim teaches a class at Mira Costa College in Oceanside, CA on wine production.  I plan to enroll this fall based on their sincere interaction.  I have several degrees in chemistry and could always learn more about the art of making wines, especially if you are a serious wine drinker.


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## buzglyd (Apr 2, 2013)

presley said:


> I've never been there.  Looking at the map, is it the West Bernardo exit off of the 15, heading east?



Yes, drive up Highland Valley Rd.

The food is excellent and the view sublime. 

It used to be a secret spot but is very popular now. Weekends can be crowded if there is a wedding. 

Today is my birthday. I may have to pop up there for lunch. ;-)


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## pipet (Apr 4, 2013)

golf4hrs said:


> The best for reds is Hart Winery.



I'll 2nd this recommendation. Most of the Temecula reds are mediocre at best and some are downright terrible. However, a couple of the Hart red varietals are worth getting (I still find some hit & miss with me but that's what the tasting is for). Years ago I picked up a Hart Cabernet Franc, which I guessed might be nice after aging. Sure enough, once I finally opened it, it was really good.  South Coast Winery has a GSM that is decent right now, and they have a pretty sitting area.  Trader Joe's is selling it for cheaper than at the winery; I am a big GSM fan so had to try it.  

While most of the Temecula wines offer very poor bang for the buck, you can occasionally find some exceptions, and I still have fun going on tastings even if I don't find my wine nirvana as some of the wineries are picturesque.


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## timesharejunkie4 (Apr 14, 2013)

Thank you all for your comments, information and recommendations. We will definitely make Hart Wineries one of our stops. Our flight lands in San Diego at 10:15. We will pick up our rental car and head to Temecula. We will be on east coast time so we will probably want our first stop in or close to Temecula to be for lunch. Any recommendations?


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## eal (Apr 14, 2013)

Ponte, South Coast and Falkner winerys all have nice restaurants for lunch.


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