# freaking Wyndham ran my credit -- unauthorized!



## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

My husband and I exchanged into a Wyndham in Hawaii for the first week of April (via RCI) and declined the timeshare presentation, so imagine my surprise when opening the mail today to discover I'd been pre-authorized for a considerable amount of credit to buy a Wyndham timeshare! I am on the pre-screen opt-out list, so I'm livid. One of the reasons we didn't want to do the presentation is because we knew they'd check our credit. Even though it doesn't go on our credit report because we didn't authorize it, we expressed ZERO interest in buying a Wyndham timeshare.

They've been in hot water over this before and they're going to get a reaming from me when I get them on the phone. I feel like I want to file a complaint. They clearly aren't learning their lesson. Where should I do so?

SO pissed right now.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 21, 2016)

Should be worth some money ...

Inquiry all 3 credit bureaus ... ask for the SIGN authorizations they should have had. 

Did they use your checkin credit card to access your personal info?

Where would they have gotten your SS numbers from? Was it on your driver's license?

I would call your credit card company about possible their "inquiry".

And this is another "POSITIVE" actions by the NEW FORMED UNIVERSAL FRONT DESK AGENT? (since last Decemeber, 2015).


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## ronparise (Apr 21, 2016)

The only way they can check your credit is with your social security number so if they don't have it they don't

If you got one of those pre approval letters that's something different. I don't know how it works but I don't think it involves a "real" check of your credit It at least doesn't ring your credit score

Here what I think. I think those pre approval letters involve a service that the credit bureaus offer their customers (like Wyndham and the credit card customers) I think Wyndham pays the credit bureaus for a list of folks that meet certain criteria. Like a minimum score and a certain age and income 

So I think your anger is better directed at the credit bureaus for providing your contact info to Wyndham in spite of your "opt out" request, not Wyndham

Of course I may be wrong I often am. In that case my comment would be: no harm no foul. Just get used to the world we now live in. Privacy in these matters is long gone


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

We did not give Wyndham our soc #s and definitely don't have those on our licenses. (I don't even give those to doc offices when they ask for it on the form; they don't need it.) They had to have run the check from the credit card I used to check out with. There's probably some BS fine print that says they can do so, but they simply give you the check-in printout and tell you to sign the typical stuff. 

I have never had ANY other business send me a pre-approval for a loan (esp for $50k!) since permanently opting out over 10 years ago. I checked all three credit companies and none show a request, but it could take time for it to show up. The credit bureaus don't mess around with that. The only companies who are authorized to check without my signature are creditors I already do business with (many credit card companies check your credit quarterly and adjust your rates based on your credit score, which I find annoying, but it doesn't show up to anyone but you).

The letter I received also specifically mentions that if I don't want to receive pre-screened offers in the future, to call, email, go online, etc. to the official opt-out list. So they absolutely checked my credit. I've read complaints about them doing this to people who attend their presentations, but never to someone who'd simply stayed there. 

I've called their toll-free number repeatedly, so at least I'm racking up some bucks for them on that side...small victory. LOL. Seriously, though, not cool.


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## presley (Apr 21, 2016)

They used to send me offers for credit every few months. They never ran my credit report, though. I think it was just random.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

I'd be surprised if they're sending pre-approved offers for $50k loans without it actually being approved!


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## tschwa2 (Apr 21, 2016)

I've been mailed those from Wyndham and I don't think they ever ran my credit.  If I recall the last one (I don't usually look at them too carefully before tossing it recycle) the fine print says that it is based on preliminary eligibility info and I may not actually qualify for the full amount.


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## clifffaith (Apr 21, 2016)

We have received pre-approval letters from Wyndham.  We own Worldmark by Wyndham so I just assumed it was a solicitation that came from being part of their system.


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## Iggyearl (Apr 21, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> I've been mailed those from Wyndham and I don't think they ever ran my credit.  If I recall the last one (I don't usually look at them too carefully before tossing it recycle) the fine print says that it is based on preliminary eligibility info and I may not actually qualify for the full amount.



Nail on the head.  The "hard" credit inquiries require your permission and personal identification.  Such as car loans, mortgages, personal loans.  These are the ones that identify you and have to be authorized by you.  My wife had to agree to such an inquiry in order to cosign for our daughter and SIL's mortgage.  Such an inquiry affects your credit score negatively.

The car insurance quotes, credit card offers, etc. require your name and address, and can be gotten for a fee.  If you read the fine print, your offer is subject to underwriting.  Just like your last American Express offer or Capital One offer.  Just marketing.  You are being asked to apply.  You should have instructions on how to opt out of future offers (again?)  Good luck.


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## ronparise (Apr 21, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> I've been mailed those from Wyndham and I don't think they ever ran my credit.  If I recall the last one (I don't usually look at them too carefully before tossing it recycle) the fine print says that it is based on preliminary eligibility info and I may not actually qualify for the full amount.



My experience also I also get them from credit card companies and other lending companies even some Indian tribe offering pay day loans at a rate of 10% a month most recently a joint letter from capital one and a local car dealer offering a car loan for something at that dealership

I walk from my mailbox directly to the trash can and dispose of the stuff I don't want immediately as I said above. No harm no foul


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## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2016)

ronparise said:


> I walk from my mailbox directly to the trash can and dispose of the stuff I don't want immediately as I said above.



Not me - I walk directly to the *shredder* - throwing credit offers in the trash can lead to your ID being stolen.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

There is a difference between pre-authorized and pre-approved. My guess is that they did not run your credit at all. They simply sent you a mailer based on the fact that they had your name and address from a prior visit. Companies do this all the time.

Also, I believe the opt-out with the credit bureaus is only good for I think five years. You have to continue to renew it. This opt-out just stops the credit bureaus from selling a name and address of potential credit worthy people. I suspect Wyndham didn't buy it, they already had it. We opted out years ago but then never bothered again. Stuff like this just goes through the shredder.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

It says, "This 'pre-screened' offer of credit is based on information in your credit report indicating that you meet certain criteria." It then directs me on how to opt out of such offers through the credit reporting bureaus. 

If you submit a permanent request on paper to the credit bureaus, it is for life. If you do it online or by phone, it's for five years. 

So yes, they ran my credit, without my permission. They either misrepresented the standard "sign this guarantee you'll pay your bill when you check out" document and hid a permission to check my credit somewhere on that paper, or they lied to the credit bureaus and said I signed. Either way, it's unethical if not illegal.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

Do you have any other credit cards from Barclay's? That is who issues the Wyndham credit card. If you do, I believe they can use internal metrics to determine credit worthiness? If no, aren't they the ones that broke the law? Not Wyndham?


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

I do not have a Wyndham credit card as I'm not a Wyndham owner. I used my Barclay World Arrival card but have NEVER had this happen anywhere else in the two years I've had it. They must have explicit approval to run your credit if you have opted out of pre-screen checks. I never gave it. We had briefly considered going to the "update" presentation, but when I saw that they required we bring a credit card "to confirm your identification" I immediately told my husband no way were we giving the sales office any chance to run our credit.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

Oh, and I do not allow any company I have credit with to share my information with any business partners, ever. Since it's not a co-branded card, they would not be allowed to share my info with Wyndham.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

This is from the ftc.gov website:



> *Will calling 1-888-5-OPTOUT or visiting www.optoutprescreen.com stop all unsolicited offers of credit and insurance?*
> Calling the opt-out line or visiting the website will stop the prescreened solicitations that are based on lists from the major consumer reporting companies. You may continue to get solicitations for credit and insurance based on lists from other sources. For example, opting out won't end solicitations from local merchants, religious and charitable associations, professional and alumni associations, and companies with which you already conduct business. To stop mail from groups like these — as well as mail addressed to "occupant" or "resident" — you must contact each source directly.



It seems that because you did business with Wyndham and perhaps that you already have a Barclay card, they solicited you based on that. Barclay is probably doing a soft pull on your credit every year. That opt-out language is standard on all mail offers.


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## Passepartout (Apr 21, 2016)

I suspect it's a 'soft approval'. They can do this internally since there is close to a bazillion% markup on what they are attempting to sell. They can finance it in house, backed with the 'fluff' that is their product. If you pay it off, they make a bundle. If you default, they keep whatever you've paid. Either way, they risk darn near nothing.

Jim


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

I just checked the privacy policy on my Barclay account. They do NOT share my creditworthiness with partners without my express approval, and I opted out of that the second I received my card in the mail. They are allowed to periodically check my credit for their own purposes, but they are not allowed to sell it to others unless I tell them they can.  

I travel several times a year and have exchanged at over a dozen timeshare brands. I use my Barclay card everywhere. Wyndham is the only one to have done this. I have not gotten a pre-screened offer in over 10 years. My spending a week at a Wyndham property does not give them the right to check my credit. Barclay offers a co-branded Wyndham card but they are separate companies. 

When I get them on the phone and get an explanation, I will post an update.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

Similar scenario, only this person did attend the presentation. I have found several of these stories online.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/comp...hecked-credit-without-permission-c622349.html


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## uscav8r (Apr 21, 2016)

flybefree said:


> So yes, they ran my credit, without my permission.



This is pure speculation on your part until you get your credit reports and verify it was a hard pull. 

Regardless of the info-sharing, which is your real beef, "pre-screened" almost always means a soft pull. I am pretty hard core about my credit as well, and I've never seen one of these types of offers show up as a hard pull. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## falmouth3 (Apr 21, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Not me - I walk directly to the *shredder* - throwing credit offers in the trash can lead to your ID being stolen.



Exactly what I was going to say.  My shredder is only a few steps from where I open my mail.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

There may not have been a pull at all. The offers they are sent out are basically form letter offers. The same verbiage for everyone. They got your name and address from your stay and sent you an offer. Credit was not likely pulled at all. The only way to verify would be to contact each of the bureaus. They don't have to actually pull your credit to send you the offer.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

Since the corporate sales office isn't answering the phone, I called the sales office at the property we stayed at. The woman I spoke to got the details and is speaking to the sales manager, who is supposed to call me back. We shall see what their story is!


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

Complaining to Wyndham really won't do much and I doubt the sales staff at a property really know anything about these mailers that go out. They are likely not involved in them in any way. If you want action, your only real option is to complain to the government powers that be or sue them if such is allowable under the opt-out laws. I suspect it won't do much and any fines or judgements they would pay would just be a cost of doing business. Much easier to just follow the advice of other and toss (or shred) it.


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## bnoble (Apr 21, 2016)

> We shall see what their story is!


Take a deep breath. This is just a solicitaiton, and a credit check almost certainly wasn't done, because they didn't have the info to actually run it. Pre-authorized means "I'm sure we can find an interest rate that will match your credit score, once we know what that is."

As to why they might send you one: Well, they know you've stayed in timeshares; you stayed in theirs. They know your home address thanks to RCI. Wyndham almost certainly subscribes to Mosaic or something similar so they also have a rough idea of your discretionary capacity---if only by zip code/etc.

As an aside: Delta once mis-configured their CRM database that made it possible to query your own record via the web. Delta also subscribes to Mosaic, and I was surprised at how accurate my classification was.  About 85% of it was spot on.


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## bogey21 (Apr 21, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> There is a difference between pre-authorized and pre-approved. My guess is that they did not run your credit at all. They simply sent you a mailer based on the fact that they had your name and address from a prior visit. Companies do this all the time.



My guess is that this is what happened.  As an aside access to my Credit is frozen at all 3 Credit Bureaus.  To see what would happen  I responded to an unsolicited Credit Card Offer from American Express.  They responded that I was denied because they couldn't access my Credit.  Thus it looks like my freeze works.

George


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

Once I hear what Wyndham has to say, I'll decide how to proceed. The language of the letter clearly references my credit history, so there is definitely something not kosher.


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## VacationForever (Apr 21, 2016)

Have you checked your credit history with the credit reporting bureaus?  There is a good chance you won't find anything, which means they did not check your credit history.  I get the pre-approved letters from Worldmark/Wyndham regularly and there is no record in my credit history that they ever ran a check.  They also have never had my SS number.  When I bought resale, I was asked to disclose my SS number and I refused to, challenging them that they had no reason to need it. They said they would use my SS number as my worldmark number if I did and I declined.


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## bnoble (Apr 21, 2016)

> Once I hear what Wyndham has to say, I'll decide how to proceed. The language of the letter clearly references my credit history, so there is definitely something not kosher.


It's your time.  Spend it how you like.


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## lily28 (Apr 21, 2016)

Barclay bank issue both Barclay arrival credit card and Wyndham credit card. Since you already have the Barclay arrival cc, Barclay might offering a preapproval or prescreen wyndham credit card


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

I was not pre-approved for a Wyndham Barclay card...I was pre-approved for up to $50k to buy a Wyndham timeshare. The letter came from Club Wyndham and makes no reference whatsoever to Barclay.


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## ronparise (Apr 21, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Not me - I walk directly to the *shredder* - throwing credit offers in the trash can lead to your ID being stolen.


In my opinion 
Not only does that show excessive fear and paronoa I think it underestimates the intelligence of the bad guys

I mean why would they walk around my home to find the trash can and search through the coffee grounds and egg shells for that piece of junk mail when it would be so much easier to just follow the mail man and take it out of the box before I get home in the evening


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## VacationForever (Apr 21, 2016)

flybefree said:


> I was not pre-approved for a Wyndham Barclay card...I was pre-approved for up to $50k to buy a Wyndham timeshare. The letter came from Club Wyndham and makes no reference whatsoever to Barclay.



Yes. It is just their ploy to try to get you to buy a timeshare from them.  They don't run against your credit history.  I get it from them each time I get home from a stay at Worldmark.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

ronparise -- I had my Discover card number stolen out of my trash back in '98 when I lived in the city and hadn't noticed that my card number was on the marketing inserts stuffed into the bill's envelope. I'd just tossed them, and someone across the street went through my trash, got the number and went shopping (he was dumb enough to order Directv to be installed at his apartment!!). So yes, that really does happen. You should actually even shred your boarding passes when you travel because the code that's scanned contains info about you.

sptung, that's good to know. I'll confirm once I hear back if that's the case here. But they should NOT be sending letters that clearly imply they've run your credit if they hadn't. As a former marketing consultant, I can tell you that's a really bad way to piss off potential customers. Upsetting them should never be part of the strategy, and they should think through their approach! It's pretty idiotic. Perhaps they think the recipient would be excited to know they qualify for that much, but they'd also be preying on people too stupid to know better than to waste that kind of money buying a timeshare!!


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## Vacationfuntips (Apr 21, 2016)

I have received those Wyndham credit offers for 50K.  My husband has also received the very same letter in his name.  IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL!  It means absolutely nothing to me.  I always get a BIG chuckle from those letters.  I think I have received at least 3 of those in the last 4 years.  

I always tear them up.  I am not a fool, and I would NEVER, EVER entertain such an offer and I don't take Wyndham's offer seriously at all. Why would anyone?  

Receiving such a letter does nothing to your credit.  It does nothing to your credit or score. It is not a hard pull. I check my credit and monitor my credit score weekly.  No damage from Wyndham.

Don't worry yourself, forget about it. It is just a sales and marketing thing that Wyndham is hoping you would want to take advantage of.  I just laugh, tear up the offer and try to enjoy my day in between planning my next vacation.

Cynthia T.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

Thanks, Cynthia. Glad to know it's complete B.S. Since I've had my credit card number stolen once, and two other accounts compromised (plus my husband's Barclay card number was stolen, and the replacement card number was stolen before he even got it in the mail!), I am always leery of anything that makes it look like someone checked my credit without my authorization. Our health insurance company's databases were breached, and so were government records. You just don't know what companies are up to when they send things like this and you know you didn't authorize it. So yeah, it was alarming. No other TS company has had the cojones to send a letter written like this. It says very specifically to contact the credit unions if I don't want to receive similar offers in the future. So they WANTED me to believe they checked my credit. 

I know it won't go on my credit report unless I authorized it, but since I don't allow pre-screened offers, it made it look like it was somehow authorized. My goal was to make sure that didn't happen, that Wyndham didn't fraudulently check my credit since I never gave them permission. I am still going to speak to them about this. As a former marketing pro, I know this approach is unethical, frowned upon, and could get them nailed for deceptive advertising. They're treading a very fine line and they've alarmed a number of other consumers, given the complaints I've found online.


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## ronparise (Apr 21, 2016)

flybefree said:


> ronparise -- I had my Discover card number stolen out of my trash back in '98 when I lived in the city and hadn't noticed that my card number was on the marketing inserts stuffed into the bill's envelope. I'd just tossed them, and someone across the street went through my trash, got the number and went shopping (he was dumb enough to order Directv to be installed at his apartment!!). So yes, that really does happen. You should actually even shred your boarding passes when you travel because the code that's scanned contains info about you.
> 
> sptung, that's good to know. I'll confirm once I hear back if that's the case here. But they should NOT be sending letters that clearly imply they've run your credit if they hadn't. As a former marketing consultant, I can tell you that's a really bad way to piss off potential customers. Upsetting them should never be part of the strategy, and they should think through their approach! It's pretty idiotic. Perhaps they think the recipient would be excited to know they qualify for that much, but they'd also be preying on people too stupid to know better than to waste that kind of money buying a timeshare!!



Of course it can happen. The world is a dangerous place and you take a risk every time you cross the street. So I take reasonable precautions, looking both way before stepping off the curb for example. And choosing to live in a neighborhood where my neighbors can afford their own cable. but I don't believe that monsters are hiding under my bed

I worry more about the desk clerk at the Daytona Wyndham selling my credit card number to the bad guys ( which has happened to me twice) than I worry about my neighbor's dumpster diving


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

ronparise said:


> And choosing to live in a neighborhood where my neighbors can afford their own cable.



haha, that's funny! Spoken like someone who's never lived in a city where a 2-bedroom apartment is $2200 a month (back in 2000), plus parking. ;-) Hey, maybe that's why he needed to steal TV service! Broke from the rent...


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## dioxide45 (Apr 21, 2016)

flybefree said:


> ronparise -- I had my Discover card number stolen out of my trash back in '98 when I lived in the city and hadn't noticed that my card number was on the marketing inserts stuffed into the bill's envelope. I'd just tossed them, and someone across the street went through my trash, got the number and went shopping (he was dumb enough to order Directv to be installed at his apartment!!). So yes, that really does happen. You should actually even shred your boarding passes when you travel because the code that's scanned contains info about you.
> 
> sptung, that's good to know. I'll confirm once I hear back if that's the case here. But they should NOT be sending letters that clearly imply they've run your credit if they hadn't. As a former marketing consultant, I can tell you that's a really bad way to piss off potential customers. Upsetting them should never be part of the strategy, and they should think through their approach! It's pretty idiotic. Perhaps they think the recipient would be excited to know they qualify for that much, but they'd also be preying on people too stupid to know better than to waste that kind of money buying a timeshare!!



My guess is that most of that verbiage and small print on the solicitation is based on government regulation. Wyndham couldn't take it off if they wanted to.


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## flybefree (Apr 21, 2016)

The only disclaimer on it was who the lender might be. The text to remove yourself from future pre-screened offers is the text that is required when you actually HAVE checked someone's credit. That's what raised the alarm.


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## CO skier (Apr 21, 2016)

bnoble said:


> Take a deep breath. This is just a solicitaiton, and a credit check almost certainly wasn't done,



That pretty much sums up this thread, or as Shakespeare would write, "Much Ado About Nothing."


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## ronparise (Apr 22, 2016)

flybefree said:


> haha, that's funny! Spoken like someone who's never lived in a city where a 2-bedroom apartment is $2200 a month (back in 2000), plus parking. ;-) Hey, maybe that's why he needed to steal TV service! Broke from the rent...



 Im the guy my neighbor worries about stealing his cable. not the other way around

And I have lived in a city, You may have seen the neighborhood on the news not long ago.  I used to shop at  the corner of  Pennsylvania  and North Avenues in Baltimore,  Where my neighbors burned the CVS after the Freddie Greys death


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## flybefree (Apr 22, 2016)

Ooh, not good. 

I lived in Hoboken, which was pretty solidly run by the mafia 20 years ago and likely still is to some extent. I had the full name, address and phone of the guy who grabbed my credit card number (the Directv rep was new and actually gave it to me), and took that to the police. Nothing happened. When I called to follow up, the detective said, "We called the guy. Said it wasn't him." "Of course he said that. But I have proof it was and want to press charges." "Leave it alone, Miss." [Pause.] "OH."

There was one restaurant space where a new restaurant opened and closed every 6-12 months. We all figured it was either a money laundering operation or that whoever was trying to run the place wouldn't pay the protection fee and got run out before there was trouble. Good times!!


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## markb53 (Apr 22, 2016)

flybefree said:


> Similar scenario, only this person did attend the presentation. I have found several of these stories online.
> 
> http://www.complaintsboard.com/comp...hecked-credit-without-permission-c622349.html



I have received several of those pre-approval letters. Wyndham has never pulled my credit. If I actually wanted to use the $50,000 they offered they could check my credit then and change their mind at that point. Or not, I don't know why they need to check credit anyway. It's not like you are buying a car and driving off with it. It's not like if you stop making payments they have to hunt you down to get it back. Wyndham never looses possession of your timeshare. It is a pretty save bet on there part. And they are charging almost 15% interest. They are making Bank. They have nothing to loose. If you stop making payments. They foreclose and sell it again. EZPZ


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## ronparise (Apr 22, 2016)

markb53 said:


> I have received several of those pre-approval letters. Wyndham has never pulled my credit. If I actually wanted to use the $50,000 they offered they could check my credit then and change their mind at that point. Or not, I don't know why they need to check credit anyway. It's not like you are buying a car and driving off with it. It's not like if you stop making payments they have to hunt you down to get it back. Wyndham never looses possession of your timeshare. It is a pretty save bet on there part. And they are charging almost 15% interest. They are making Bank. They have nothing to loose. If you stop making payments. They foreclose and sell it again. EZPZ
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD




When Wyndham does run credit at one of their sales centers (with permission, I think) they come back with one of 3 or 4 possible scores. A, B, C or D. D is a denial and C is to require a 50% down payment,  So it is logical to accept what you say as true... Wyndham could care less about credit scores, With 50% down they are well protected. but its not the way they operate.  To understand why they have underwriting standards, you have to understand what they do with their debt

They hold the paper, they dont sell it out right to investors. but they do create CMO's backed by the loans they make.  So wyndham sells bonds at under 2% backed by loans where they collect 15%  The better the quality of the paper in the loan portfolios, the more they get for the CMOs

Wyndham does make a big deal of tightening up their lending criteria to wall street> Heres what Steve Holmes said in the 4th quarter earnings call"

"With a focus on the next generation of timeshare owners, we improved our sales process to enhance customer engagement and drive future growth. We opened six new sales centers to expand our reach for new owners and changes to our underwriting standards continued to benefit EBITDA through lower loan losses, while innovative methods for sourcing inventory reduced our cost of goods sold".

and in answer to this question 

"Okay. Thank you. Two more questions here. You talked in the prepared remarks about increasing financing to new owners. Does that mean lowering credit standards for these potential new buyers?"

The answer was 

"No", 


and in answer to another question

"But as Steve said earlier in an answer to an earlier question, we have no intention to deviate from the credit worthy standard that we've established over the past few years".


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## Knightmare (Apr 22, 2016)

Some people choose to over complicate their life... This is a prime example.


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## Karen G (Apr 22, 2016)

flybefree said:


> Perhaps they think the recipient would be excited to know they qualify for that much, but they'd also be preying on people too stupid to know better than to waste that kind of money buying a timeshare!!


That is their target audience for timeshare sales!


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## cerralee (Apr 22, 2016)

*Wyndham sent me an actual credit card after a presentation, many years ago.*

I am just reading the OP's original post.  Back in 2008, I went to a presentation and after all the clap trap got out, came home only to be sent an actual credit card in the mail that they submitted by fraud in my name.  The following is a link to my old thread when this happened to me. 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87614&highlight=CERRALEE+WYNDHAM

They are scum!!!!


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## Joe33426 (Apr 22, 2016)

CO skier said:


> That pretty much sums up this thread, or as Shakespeare would write, "Much Ado About Nothing."



Exactly!  All the OP has to do is go on Credit Karma (free) and get the immediate results and see that no credit pull was made or the annual free credit reports as others have mentioned. 

I like Credit Karma because you can see the credit pulls from both TransUnion and Equifax.    And once you sign up, you can see this all the time.  

I can understand where the OP is coming from; however, because I'm pretty sensitive about credit pulls.   It seems like I always want a new credit card for some reason and the pulls add up quickly...


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## MaryBella7 (Apr 22, 2016)

flybefree said:


> The only disclaimer on it was who the lender might be. The text to remove yourself from future pre-screened offers is the text that is required when you actually HAVE checked someone's credit. That's what raised the alarm.



I am guessing that this is the process you followed, and the link also includes another place for opting out of offers in case you haven't done that one, too. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0148-prescreened-credit-and-insurance-offers

What is NOT covered by opting out are offers where you actually have not been screened through the credit bureau.  I would bet that no type of screening at all took place other than "what addresses are in our database"? 

I get these letters from time to time myself and figured that it was just because I pay my bills to Wyndham, so I am not a deadbeat.  Much like trying to reel me in to a sales presentation, I figured the letters are trying to reel me in, too.  And actually, if I recall correctly, someone on TUG going through the process of debt collection with Wyndham actually received one of these letters.  They probably just send them to every address they have.


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## DeniseM (Apr 22, 2016)

ronparise said:


> In my opinion
> Not only does that show excessive fear and paronoa I think it underestimates the intelligence of the bad guys
> 
> I mean why would they walk around my home to find the trash can and search through the coffee grounds and egg shells for that piece of junk mail when it would be so much easier to just follow the mail man and take it out of the box before I get home in the evening



#1 - In my neighborhood the mail boxes are locked so the bad guys cannot just walk up and steal the mail.  However, last weekend - two of our neighborhood collector boxes (40+ mail boxes) had the whole front ripped off with a winch or pickup and the mail was stolen.  So, YES, the bad guys are looking for mail in my neighborhood.

#2 - We had our ID stolen last year, and a fraudulent tax return filed using our social security numbers, and the Perps stole $7,000.  So, YES, I will continue to err on the side of caution.

But, as always, your sage advice is much appreciated!


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## ronparise (Apr 22, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> #1 - In my neighborhood the mail boxes are locked so the bad guys cannot just walk up and steal the mail.  However, last weekend - two of our neighborhood collector boxes (40+ mail boxes) had the whole front ripped off with a winch or pickup and the mail was stolen.  So, YES, the bad guys are looking for mail in my neighborhood.
> 
> #2 - We had our ID stolen last year, and a fraudulent tax return filed using our social security numbers, and the Perps stole $7,000.  So, YES, I will continue to err on the side of caution.
> 
> But, as always, your sage advice is much appreciated!



so in spite of doing everything right, someone got your social security number and filed that tax return and collected your refund

which makes my point   >    in todays world there is no privacy... conduct yourself accordingly

I assume if they got $7000 that was the tax refund you expected.  I think I would amend my w9 so that not so much is withheld


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## DeeDibble (Apr 23, 2016)

flybefree said:


> I just checked the privacy policy on my Barclay account. They do NOT share my creditworthiness with partners without my express approval, and I opted out of that the second I received my card in the mail. They are allowed to periodically check my credit for their own purposes, but they are not allowed to sell it to others unless I tell them they can.
> 
> I travel several times a year and have exchanged at over a dozen timeshare brands. I use my Barclay card everywhere. Wyndham is the only one to have done this. I have not gotten a pre-screened offer in over 10 years. My spending a week at a Wyndham property does not give them the right to check my credit. Barclay offers a co-branded Wyndham card but they are separate companies.
> 
> When I get them on the phone and get an explanation, I will post an update.


If you have a heartbeat, own your home you are on a list and from that list thousands of financial businesses send out thousands of solicitations a year.  We receive those so called pre approvals from Wyndham all the time.   It does not mean they actually pulled your credit " soft" or "hard".  Every kind of preapproval/pre authorization has it's " subject to clause".  You just ended up on the list like the rest of us.  I really wouldn't sweat it.  Wyndham Corporate/sales does much sleazier things to its owners then "baiting" us to by with preapproval letters to purchase more points.  And those other things are what we need to be keeping our eyes on.


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## DeniseM (Apr 23, 2016)

ronparise said:


> so in spite of doing everything right, someone got your social security number and filed that tax return and collected your refund
> 
> which makes my point   >    in todays world there is no privacy... conduct yourself accordingly
> 
> I assume if they got $7000 that was the tax refund you expected.  I think I would amend my w9 so that not so much is withheld



Nope - we never get money back - we pay every year.  So they stole the IRS's money, and we had to prove it wasn't us.  

Our ID was stolen in the Anthem mess, and of course, that was completely out of our control, but that is no reason for us to be careless with the things we can control.

We will definitely continue to shred credit card applications and other sensitive mail.  We have excellent credit ratings and it's well worth a few minutes a week to protect it.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 23, 2016)

*They did it too me too!*

A few weeks ago, we sat down for our 2nd presentation, this time as owners. Minutes after we sat down and talked about the pros and cons we had experienced with owning a Wyndham TS, we were asked if we may be interested in buying more points. After we expressed curiosity in what they considered a great deal and high points would be, and after I expressed that it wasn't worth it the first time and that we were fed a lot of exaggeration and BS, they returned with a few offers and my current credit score. I did not authorize them or agree to purchase anything at that point. Lesson learned! Avoid it at all cost unless I really want to buy sometime.


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## flybefree (Apr 24, 2016)

DeeDibble said:


> If you have a heartbeat, own your home you are on a list and from that list thousands of financial businesses send out thousands of solicitations a year.  We receive those so called pre approvals from Wyndham all the time.   It does not mean they actually pulled your credit " soft" or "hard".  Every kind of preapproval/pre authorization has it's " subject to clause".  You just ended up on the list like the rest of us.  I really wouldn't sweat it.  Wyndham Corporate/sales does much sleazier things to its owners then "baiting" us to by with preapproval letters to purchase more points.  And those other things are what we need to be keeping our eyes on.



I'm on the "do not mail" lists and get almost no junk mail whatsoever. We get occasional offers, very rarely, about mortgage stuff (we own our home outright) and other silly crap because we own a home. But those who think I'm making "much ado about nothing," if you'd gotten this letter, you'd believe they'd checked your credit too. It is written as if they had. I am a professional writer and was a marketing professional for over 20 years. I had to write direct mail pieces on occasion and know how they're done. I'm no dummy and am not gullible. It's written in deceptive language, sufficient to warrant my concern. I came on here to ask for input and have been assured they haven't checked my credit, but it's worth noting that no one at Wyndham called me back. They know damn well this practice is unethical -- and it actually could get them into trouble with the FTC. There are numerous complaints about Wyndham for their sales tactics. This is yet another example of their sleaziness. I don't own with Wyndham and don't plan to.


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## carl2591 (Jun 3, 2016)

I have our, mine wife daughters age 22-18, credits files frozen as well.. 

IF YOU are reading this and have NOT gotten a credit freeze on your files, it only time till you credit WILL get hacked and you will spend way to much time, effort and MONEY to clear you name. 

Just search credit ID theft and read what other have gone through. 

FORGET the "LifeLock" service crap.. that is a rip off in the biggest way. they get slapped with big fines all the time for bad business practices. just google lifelock fines..

find out more at http://www.clarkhoward.com/credit-freeze-and-thaw-guide

http://www.clarkhoward.com/credit-freezes-frequently-aske2

take action now to prevent action in the future. the choice is yours. 





bogey21 said:


> My guess is that this is what happened.  As an aside access to my Credit is frozen at all 3 Credit Bureaus.  To see what would happen  I responded to an unsolicited Credit Card Offer from American Express.  They responded that I was denied because they couldn't access my Credit.  Thus it looks like my freeze works.
> 
> George


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## needhelp (Jun 6, 2016)

*pre-approved and pre-selected is not the same thing*

pre-approved and pre-selected is not the same thing. Each one has different criteria for how many people have to be "approved".
Did you have a block at all three credit bureaus? As someone else point out that the fine print on the back has what information was used to make the offer. 
Also, if it didn't have an APR listed then it's very unlikely they used your actual credit score.


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