# Rental Car Damage



## chellej (Jan 27, 2011)

We were in Spokane earlier this month and a week after we returned we got a letter from Purco Fleet Management services stating there was damage to the bumper.  They have since sent an email with pictures with the damage they claim we did, a repair invoice and a letter that is like one from a debt collector... states we have 30 days to dispute or they will assume it is valid.

There was no damage when we turned it in and we turned it in to an attendent... we did not just drop the keys.

So I am wondering if this is normal procedure?  Will they wait to see if we respond and then charge our credit card?

I am planning to send a certified letter stating that it was not damaged when we turned it in and that an attendent accepted the car.

Anyone have any idea what I should expect?  Total bill was $750.

 We unfortunatly bought it and paid through priceline using our debit card... so no Visa protection and my auto insurance has a $500 deductable


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## LisaRex (Jan 27, 2011)

Ugh. This problem is very, very common.  I'm afraid that they will try to collect the $750, even if you are positive you didn't cause the damage.  That is why it's important to have the attendant sign the paper that the car was returned undamaged -- and then you have to keep that paper on the chance that they try to pull this on you. I'd contact my agent and see what he says. 

David Horowitz did a column in Costco re this a few months ago.  You might try going to Costco.com and searching past issues of their monthly magazine.  But his advice, which is too late for you, is to always put car rentals on credit cards with the best auto renter protection.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 27, 2011)

The only advice I can give you is to check with your insurance agent. After that, challenge the claim and refuse to pay it. They may attempt to put it on your credit report as an uncollectable debt. In that case, your allowed to file an amendment giving your side of the story.

We had a similar situation many years ago when we moved out of an apartment. The management tried to claim we damaged the carpet and the walls required repainting. This despite a contract that stated they'd repaint every 5 years and carpeting that was stained before my wife moved in (I met her after she rented this apartement). We refused, they threatened legal action which never happened and then they put it on my wifes credit report as an uncolleced debt. We contested the information and had our side of the story filed with the bad debt information. I kept a watch on her credit record looking for damage as I wanted to go after the apartment management for falsely damaging my wifes credit. In the end, it didn't damage her credit. They couldn't prove their claim and they never pursued it.


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## chellej (Jan 27, 2011)

My insurance has a $500 deductable and I read somewhere that insurance doesn't always pay the loss of use which is $200.  I don't want my rates to go up because of this


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## AnnaS (Jan 27, 2011)

Sorry to hear you have to go through this and I hope you do not get stuck with the bill.

Would pictures or a video of before and after help?  (The way Autotrain does it).  Just curious.

Our last rental - after we drove off with our car, we noticed a nice, decent scratch/scrape on the car and regretted not seeing it earlier to make a note of it and mention it to the attendant.  Thank God we had no problems because I was afraid they could come after us for it.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Talent312 (Jan 27, 2011)

It is all too common for unscrupulous car-rental companies to cover repairs to their cars by attempting to fleece unwary renters who will simply use their insurance coverages to avoid a messy situation.

A Thrifty agency in Vegas tried to do this to me once. I should have suspected these people when they sent me to a car in the darkest part of the lot. Fortunately, I kept a check-out sheet showing the same damage they claimed. The result was an apology from corporate with some coupons I never used.

Contacting your insurance agent is appropriate, but so is a certified letter stating that: 
-- You not responsible for the damage;
-- You do not appreciate their attempt to defraud you with a 'bogus' claim;
-- Any attempt to collect this claim will be met with legal action to protect your interests.
If would also be great if you could hire a lawyer to put this on his letterhead.


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## davhu1 (Jan 27, 2011)

Agree with talent312.

How did you return the car?  The last few times I returned the car, someone check and gave the receipt.  If that is the case, say that in the letter too.  Tell them the car was inspected by their attendant before giving you the receipt and he did not point out the damage.  That you are not responsible to what happen to the car after they already took possession.

I have learned to do a walk around and inspect for damages before taking the car out.  Got a car with dings and scratches from Alamo in Hawaii.  I insisted that they noted and signed the damage.   Upon return the attendant insisted I damaged the car.  Lucky I  had proof.  

One time the attendant would not sign off damages.  I went back to the counter insist that someone sign off or give me another car.   They are always looking for suckers.


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## Ken555 (Jan 27, 2011)

davhu1 said:


> I have learned to do a walk around and inspect for damages before taking the car out.  Got a car with dings and scratches from Alamo in Hawaii.  I insisted that they noted and signed the damage.   Upon return the attendant insisted I damaged the car.  Lucky I  had proof.



When I rent in Hawaii, in particular, I always mark the form showing damage on all sides of the car picture. On the rare occasion when I'm asked about that upon leaving with the car, I say that I noticed scratches on all sides. FWIW, that's absolutely true on every car I've rented in Hawaii. They don't question me, and I leave. Upon return, there has only been one time when I was questioned about a scratch, and I pull out the form and show it to the attendant... then they smile, apologize, and I leave. 

I figure that since almost all the cars (especially in Kauai) in Hawaii aren't really that clean at pickup (even though they may still be wet from a washing), it's hard to distinguish if a car is not damaged upon pickup. Likewise, it's hard to determine if it's not damaged upon return.


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## sfwilshire (Jan 28, 2011)

I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS check for damage before driving away a rental car, but for a recent business trip, I had been forced to drive to the airport at midnight to beat an incoming snow storm. My 6AM flight didn't go until 7:30A, so I was late for an important meeting and rushing. It just never crossed my mind.

I never noticed the scratches on the right rear bumper during the week, but they called it out to me when I returned the car two weeks ago. I told them I didn't do it and that it looked like it had been there a while. The woman had the person checking me in give her a copy of the bill, so I dread getting something from them on it.   Keeping my fingers crossed.

Sheila


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## lobsterlover (Jan 28, 2011)

I read a brilliant idea here on TUG about just pulling out the digital camera with the date stamp on the photo. Take before and after shots. Only takes a few seconds.


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## LisaRex (Jan 28, 2011)

lobsterlover said:


> I read a brilliant idea here on TUG about just pulling out the digital camera with the date stamp on the photo. Take before and after shots. Only takes a few seconds.



Yes, but I can put any date stamp on my camera.  A newspaper, on the other hand, would prove that you didn't take the "after" pictures until the date of the newspaper, or later.


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## AnnaS (Jan 28, 2011)

If someone is prepared - can we video tape some sign/bulletin at the airport with the date?  The Autotrain does it to cover themselves - a newspaper might help also.  I guess there is always a way of tricking the system.


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## davhu1 (Jan 28, 2011)

Problem with digital picture is that the date can be manipulated and picture can altered with photoshop or any other photo software.  Piece of paper signed by their employee would be  harder to argue.


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## derb (Jan 28, 2011)

I have had several instances as the OP.  AMEX, who handled the claims thru their credit card always asked for:

Previous renter documents to see if damage occurred before my rental and if that renter actually paid for the damage.

Inventory lists to prove the car would have been rented during days of repair.

Statements from the receiving rep who took the car back as to why he didnt report the damage when the car was returned..


The rental companies always dropped the claims.


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## derb (Jan 28, 2011)

I have had several instances as the OP.  AMEX, who handled the claims thru their credit card always asked for:

Previous renter documents to see if damage occurred before my rental and if that renter actually paid for the damage.

Inventory lists to prove the car would have been rented during days of repair.

Statements from the receiving rep who took the car back as to why he didnt report the damage when the car was returned..


The rental companies always dropped the claims.

Maybe you could use the same tactics.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 28, 2011)

If you get a car through Hotwire or Priceline, and you have the $24.95 coverage through AMEX, just call AMEX and tell them to add it.  I did this for our current trip.


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## cmh (Jan 28, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> If you get a car through Hotwire or Priceline, and you have the $24.95 coverage through AMEX, just call AMEX and tell them to add it.  I did this for our current trip.



I can confirm the AMEX coverage is great, especially their claims service.  Unfortunately, I learned how good their claim service is after my sister-in-law attempted to drive on the left hand side of the road in South Africa.


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## Ken555 (Jan 28, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> If you get a car through Hotwire or Priceline, and you have the $24.95 coverage through AMEX, just call AMEX and tell them to add it.  I did this for our current trip.



Fantastic idea. I've been meaning to sign up, and I think I will this weekend (and its only $17.95 per rental for California residents).


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## RALnGA (Jan 31, 2011)

*Amex Card*

If you pay your car rental with an American Express credit card you may already have theft and damage protection up to you primary insurance deductable .
I am going to Vegas this friday and called AMEX to see if both myself and my wife would be covered with the car rental protection plan that AMEX offers . I was told that just paying for the rental I am already covered .But they do offer a "better" protection if one desires.
If the car rental  say the car was damaged call AMEX to make a claim and they will take it from there .


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## cmh (Jan 31, 2011)

RALnGA said:


> If you pay your car rental with an American Express credit card you may already have theft and damage protection up to you primary insurance deductable .
> I am going to Vegas this friday and called AMEX to see if both myself and my wife would be covered with the car rental protection plan that AMEX offers . I was told that just paying for the rental I am already covered .But they do offer a "better" protection if one desires.
> If the car rental  say the car was damaged call AMEX to make a claim and they will take it from there .



True for the US, not for other countries.


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## chellej (Jan 31, 2011)

derb said:


> I have had several instances as the OP.  AMEX, who handled the claims thru their credit card always asked for:
> 
> Previous renter documents to see if damage occurred before my rental and if that renter actually paid for the damage.
> 
> ...



Thanks

I am going to send a certified letter and will include these items.

Hopefully they will drop it


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## sfwilshire (Jan 31, 2011)

cmh said:


> True for the US, not for other countries.




The inexpensive automatic add-on insurance you can sign up for with American Express is good in SOME other countries. We used it for England, Scotland, Wales and Canada. 

I recall that Ireland was specifically excluded from coverage.

Sheila


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## bobcat (Jan 31, 2011)

chellej said:


> My insurance has a $500 deductable and I read somewhere that insurance doesn't always pay the loss of use which is $200.  I don't want my rates to go up because of this



Did the clerk sign off on the car ?. You can send them a copy.


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## Gracey (Jan 31, 2011)

cmh said:


> True for the US, not for other countries.



from american express website:
Coverage is worldwide, except for vehicles rented in Australia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, and New Zealand.


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## Bell30655 (Jan 31, 2011)

Any time I rent a vehicle, I shoot photos when I pick it up and when I return it.  I use my iPhone which date/time stamps and geo codes it.  Four times, I've received one of those letters.  All four times I sent pics and got apologies.  (I rent a lot of cars.)


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## chellej (Jun 21, 2011)

*Update*

So I have gone back and forth with several letters with this company.  They continue to say they will pursue it.  Said that they can not send me statements from the attendent that checked it in or the one that noted the damage... or any of the other information I requested for that matter.  

I am wondering though, why they have not just charged the credit card that is left as a security deposit?  Is it because they know they cannot prove it (and I would dispute it)


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## Talent312 (Jun 21, 2011)

Who cares why?  My attitude would be that they can spout and bluster all they want, but it will be a cold day in hell before I pay them a dime.

More rationally, I'd say: "Your refusal to produce relevant documents is a sign that this may be a fraudulent claim. At best, it shows bad faith. You may be assured that, in the event of litigation, a subpoena duces tecum will be issued to compel their production, and possibly, all your records for similar claims at that facility."


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