# Anyone else have their deed around for Patriots place?



## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

So my deed was recorded with Williamsburg today...Recieved it back and while reading over it.....It says i own at Kingsgate????

Anyone else own at Patriots place, but has it identified as...



> In Fairfield Williamsburg at Kingsgate Time-Share Project - Phase Five (5)



here's the section of the deed i'm talking about(I don't think any of this section holds any confidential information)

Hell, it wouldn't be a bad thing if i ended up owning there, their Building 25, unit 202 is a 3br lock-off and i believe the MF's are lower


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 20, 2011)

Ride,
Call up the front desk at Kingsgate and see IF they have a unit and building with those numbers FIRST.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ride,
> Call up the front desk at Kingsgate and see IF they have a unit and building with those numbers FIRST.



Just called kingsgate and patriots place...they both have a building 25, unit 202...and the main offices are closed for the day...looks like my lunch break tommorrow will be used to figure this out...


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 20, 2011)

I keep the Kingsgate unit. Has indoor pool and game room. 

Now ask your seller for a guest letter to the resort so you can checkin.  

Ride, you could have so much FUN with this. You, daughter and EX, all homeless over a holiday week.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

Random Guess post:

The deed mentions 1985 and 1987...while looking at the Club Wyndham handbook thingy...Kingsgate mentions its room were built in 1991-2000 Patriots place mentions it rooms were built in 1985


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## rrlongwell (Jun 20, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Random Guess post:
> 
> The deed mentions 1985 and 1987...while looking at the Club Wyndham handbook thingy...Kingsgate mentions its room were built in 1991-2000 Patriots place mentions it rooms were built in 1985



The deed is public record.  If you want some better ideas looking at it you might want to post it.  The deed is typically what controls.  The earlier posts have some nasty implications.  You might also want to call the title department at Wyndham to see what they have to say.


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## Steve (Jun 20, 2011)

*Make sure they fix this correctly.*

It is probably a typo when they refer to "Kingsgate".  However, it is something that will have to be fixed.  As it is now, you probably don't legally own anything.  If the grantor was not vested, then the title did not convey.

You don't have the option of keeping the Kingsgate week, nor do you have title to it regardless of what was recorded unless the same person or entity that owned the Patriot's Place week also happened to own the exact corresponding week at Kingsgate...which is not likely at sold out resorts.  So, if the seller owned Patriot's Place, but the closing company accidently deeded Kingsgate, then you don't own anything.  The seller still owns the Patriot's Place week, and the owner of the corresponding unit and week number at Kingsgate still owns that week.  (Of course, the fact that the year of original recording of 1985 doesn't match Kingsgate might render the deed invalid even if the same owner had owned both weeks.)

The closing company will probably need to record a corrective Warranty Deed to correct the legal description.  A Scrivener's Affidavit will not work to correct this type of error in most states.  

Steve


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> The deed is public record.  If you want some better ideas looking at it you might want to post it.  The deed is typically what controls.  The earlier posts have some nasty implications.  You might also want to call the title department at Wyndham to see what they have to say.



I'm a little nervous about posting my whole deed...its lists my full name and address and while i understand that it is a public record....i don't know if i want everyone that knows me under this screen name(i've made some enemies under this name) to know where i live or it become part of the google public records :ignore:


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

Steve said:


> It is probably a typo when they refer to "Kingsgate".  However, it is something that will have to be fixed.  As it is now, you probably don't legally own anything.  If the grantor was not vested, then the title did not convey.
> Steve



See thats the thing that confuses me the most...as soon as i got the Deed in my email...i read it and noticed that it said kingsgate...i called Resortclosings, inc. and talked to Carlina and she told me the deed was copied directly from the old deed, but i have called Patriots place in the past and they SEEM to have confirmed that the these guys ARE owners at Patriots place...

Just a mess....its much more likey that there was a mistake by the closing company then the owners had been able to stay at patriots place every year on week 27 when they actually owned at Kingsgate


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## ausman (Jun 20, 2011)

Steve said:


> It is probably a typo when they refer to "Kingsgate".    As it is now, you probably don't legally own anything.



But a deed has been recorded. Someone owns something.

He probably owns a Kingsgate unit now and would have to have the seller correct if wanted.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 20, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm a little nervous about posting my whole deed...its lists my full name and address and while i understand that it is a public record....i don't know if i want everyone that knows me under this screen name(i've made some enemies under this name) to know where i live or it become part of the google public records :ignore:



Understand completly.  You might want to call Title at Wyndham then and see what they say.  I have been searching the internet with not much luck.  But I did find a re-seller site or two.  Apparently Fairfield Williamsburg was the name for the facility at one point.  It then mading reference to a Wyndham Williamsburg at Kingsgate and seperatly a Wyndham Williamsburg at Patriot's Place.  Both make reference to being formally Fairfield.  I do not know if this helps or just confuses things more.  You may want to try and find out if the deeds are on line.  A quick look showed me that Williamsburg is an indpendent city.  I do not know where the deeds for Kingsgate and Patriot's place are recorded.  I would guess in York County or if not York County then James City County.  The resorts may or may not be recorded in the same location.  Maybe someone could post where Kingsgate deeds are recorded and where Patriot's Place deeds are recorded.  Then we could determine if there records are on line.  You would need to load in the seller as the grantee for the search once you find out where the deeds are recorded.  If you locate the deed to the seller than this is the starting point to see what, if anything, you have legally bought.  If there is a legal error in your deed than it would be the starting point to get deed corrected.  The early poster is correct.  If your deed is wrong, a corrected deed from the seller will be required.  If you have a copy of your deed it should show a deed book and page that the transfer to the seller is recorded at.  If so, if it is on-line, then you should be able to search by that info also.

Update of Interest:  

About Wyndham-Patriot's Place This Profile Wyndham-Patriot's Place in Williamsburg, VA is a private company categorized under Clubs. Our records show it was established in 1985 and incorporated in Virginia ... Wyndham-Patriot's Place also does business as The Fairfield Williamsburg Property Owners Association Inc .

Wyndham-Kingsgate Business Information ... Years in Business 5

Wyndham-Governor's Green Business Information Wyndham-Governor's Green also does business as Wyndham Governors Green Resort, Governors Green Vacation ... Brands Wyndham


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## Steve (Jun 20, 2011)

basham said:


> But a deed has been recorded. Someone owns something.
> 
> He probably owns a Kingsgate unit now and would have to have the seller correct if wanted.



Recording a deed means nothing if the person who signed as the grantor doesn't actually own the property.   An invalid legal description can also render a deed invalid.  

Steve


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## LLW (Jun 20, 2011)

Steve said:


> *Recording a deed means nothing if the person who signed as the grantor doesn't actually own the property.*   An invalid legal description can also render a deed invalid.
> 
> Steve



Exactly right. Anybody can offer to deed you Bill Gates' mansion, but it wouldn't transfer title.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

Ok, so who's ready for an dumb question...that i shouldn't ask and is kinda grey area that even considering is dumb?

Ok, say Wyndham doesn't look that deeply at the Deed and accepts the transfer...say ten years down the line...i lose my job, the US falls into a new depression, all of the farm land in the US is infertile, crime and evil have taken over the country and people are attacking each other for the very few Twinkies left, roaches have evolved and created an army to take over the surface land and inflation has hit hard and now the MF is $100,000 a year(i have to justify asking the question) ONLY IF ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED AT ONCE, because otherwise it unethical

Assuming i can confirm that the deed is incorrect, Since the deed isn't really valid because the information on it talks about a resort that the original owner didn't have any ownership too so couldn't transfer it to me....Can i just point that out to wyndham and walk away?


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

Full Deed: I just took out my name and address:
















Should there be more then 3 pages?


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## ronparise (Jun 20, 2011)

Ride, 

I think you have two issues here

1) You bought something, but we really dont know what it is.  There was no title search done with your transfer. There may be a mistake on the deed,(happens all the time) especially when the closing company only copies what they saw on the existing deed. A typo 20 years ago is transferred down the line to you. This is why with "real" real estate most folks have a title search done and get a title insurance policy. Of course with what you paid for this thing that would be overkill, ie paying $400 dollars or so for a $1 insurance policy. But with it someone would have done a title search and either discovered the mistake, or found the explanation for what seems to be a mistake. In any case you have a year to sort this out...(your next scheduled usage)

I would call Wyndhams transfer dept (Im practically on a first name basis there with7 deals in the last 6 months. I have two deeds with them now) Ask them if they have received the recorded deed from your closing company. They may have trouble finding it because the guy you bought it from is probably not the owner of record at Wyndham. Tell them that you see what looks like a mistake on the deed..and let them sort it out

 The two deals I have in transfer at Wyndham now are both Resort Closings deals. I dont have a lot of confidence with them, (several mistakes and unnecessary requests), but their website lets you look up the name of the previous owner. if you dont know it already.  


2) Your immediate problem is: where is your daughter going to sleep on July 1?   Call the folks at Wyndhams weeks reservation line  800-251-8736 option 2....they should be able to confirm just where it is that you have a reservation for July 1....you will probably need the previous owners name to look it up..You should be listed there as a his guest. Then call the resort, they should be able to confirm that you are expected

Regarding your last question...if the deed is wrong, can you walk away?...Of course you can. but if you are the one on record as the owner with Wyndham, you will be the one to be hounded by collections, and probably suffer a hit to your credit before thay let you go.  Dont worry about this hypothetical crap...just get your reservation straight and then get your ownership straight.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 20, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Ride,
> 
> I  Dont worry about this hypothetical crap...just get your reservation straight and then get your ownership straight.



Good point...i'm going to call the reservation department tomorrow and get my stay as close to written in stone as i can....another good point you made...take care of the reservation first...because i have a year to take care of the deed!  The closing company just mailed the documents to wyndham today...so they most likely won't even look at them till after my vacation is over

Thank you Ron!


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## rrlongwell (Jun 21, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Good point...i'm going to call the reservation department tomorrow and get my stay as close to written in stone as i can....another good point you made...take care of the reservation first...because i have a year to take care of the deed!  The closing company just mailed the documents to wyndham today...so they most likely won't even look at them till after my vacation is over
> 
> Thank you Ron!



I tried to open your attachments and just got blank pages.


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## puppymommo (Jun 21, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I tried to open your attachments and just got blank pages.



This happened to me, too.


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## mrpickle (Jun 21, 2011)

*Pictures Too Small!*



rrlongwell said:


> I tried to open your attachments and just got blank pages.



I only get a 1x1 pixel size picture!


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 21, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I tried to open your attachments and just got blank pages.





puppymommo said:


> This happened to me, too.





mrpickle said:


> I only get a 1x1 pixel size picture!



should be fixed now


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## rrlongwell (Jun 21, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> should be fixed now



The deed history appears to be on line for your timeshare.  This county charges for the access.  You may want to sign up for 1 month, assuming they let you do just one month.  Then look up each preceeding owner one deed at a time until you get back to the original owner's purchase from Fairfield.  The owner has warranted the deed but only to the extent that it covers their actions is how I read the deed.  If Wyndham does not reconize the transfer of title if there is a problem, then you may be out just the $500 dollars.  If they do reconize the title, my guess is that you may be all right.  Fairfield et. al. may have used the term Kingsgate in the orginal development and possably at the 2nd resort in Williamsburg.

YORK COUNTY - POQUOSON CIRCUIT COURT

York County – Poquoson Circuit Court's land records listed below are available by subscription seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day, including all holidays.

                  Records Available                                                        Indices Available   Images Available 

     Deeds beginning 6/20/1968                                                                   Yes                       Yes 
     Deeds - Browse Old Books from 1633 thru 1912                       Book & Page Only            Yes
     Financing Statements beginning 1/1/1995                                             Yes                       No   
     Financing Statements beginning 9/2/2008                                             Yes                      Yes
     Judgments 1/1/1985 thru 6/30/96                                                         Yes                       No   
     Judgments beginning 7/1/96                                                                  Yes                      Yes
     State Highway Plats - Books 1 thru 11                                        Book & Page Only          Yes
     Wills beginning 1/3/69                                                                             Yes                     Yes 

                                                         SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION

The subscriber fee is $50.00 per month, pre-paid quarterly, non-refundable.  Payments are due on December 15, March 15, June 15, and September 15, for quarters beginning January 1, April 1, July 1, and October 1.

Modifications to the Subscriber's hardware and/or software may be necessary for access to the database.

An Application and Subscriber Agreement must be submitted by Individual Subscribers.  If a business or nonprofit entity, organization or association wishes to become a Corporate Subscriber, a Corporate Subscriber Application and Corporate Subscriber Agreement for each employee/user must be submitted, and each employee must have a separate User ID and Password.  The appropriate Application and Subscriber Agreement must be printed, signed, and forwarded with the Subscriber Fee to the Clerk at P.O. Box 371, Yorktown, Virginia 23690.

The information or data accessed by the Subscriber may or may not be the official government record required by law.  In order to assure the accuracy of the data or information, the Subscriber should consult the official governmental record.


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## ronparise (Jun 21, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm a little nervous about posting my whole deed...its lists my full name and address and while i understand that it is a public record....i don't know if i want everyone that knows me under this screen name(i've made some enemies under this name) to know where i live or it become part of the google public records :ignore:



Ride

Dont be so sure you can hide behind a screen name...sent you a pm


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## Free2Roam (Jun 21, 2011)

If you're so inclined you should also be able to visit the land records office while you're down there... don't know if I would do that on vacation, but it's an option that won't cost $50/month for 3 months minimum.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok i checked with Patriots place, confirmed that i have been put down as a guest and everything seems set for July 3rd! So i got the most important issue solved

I'm now 99% sure that it is just a mistake by the Closing Company and that my actual ownership will be with patriots place....luckily, as Ron pointed out, i have a year to get that figured out, although hopeful i can get it figured out in less then a year, so i can deposit the small side of my lock-off in RCI and not lose any points for late deposit


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 21, 2011)

*enter annoyed obscene language here*

So called the title department...they seemed to have only confused the issue more for me....I gave them the previous owners name, but all they could tell me was that 'according to the name you gave us, that owner does own at kingsgate' But they were unable to give me any more information on if he also owns at Patriots place and/or what weeks or buildings or units he could own at either location

Meh, it may have been a mistake by me though...I don't know if the previous owner is the one listed on the resort closings, inc. website, or Project Philanthropy, inc., if its Project Philanthropy, i'm sure they have hundreds of deeds in their possession, so calling Wyndham wouldn't help...i'm considering googling the names of the people who setup my reservation at Patriots Place (Leo & Patti *********) and calling them directly and asking what they gave to the PCC to sell

They told me once they have received the paperwork, everything should be transferred within 8-10weeks...I'm now marking on my calender the next phone call Sept. 1st


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## rrlongwell (Jun 21, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> *enter annoyed obscene language here*
> 
> So called the title department...they seemed to have only confused the issue more for me....I gave them the previous owners name, but all they could tell me was that 'according to the name you gave us, that owner does own at kingsgate' But they were unable to give me any more information on if he also owns at Patriots place and/or what weeks or buildings or units he could own at either location
> 
> ...



Ask to talk to a supervisor in the Title Department and fax the deed to them.  The supervisor should be able to help.

Found the below on E-Bay.  Please note, the management company is being listed as Fairfield Resorts, Inc. and the seller or agent is not readily apparent on the Ad. 

Of interest?  I was not aware that Patriots Place was still in an active sales mode.  

"Come to the heart of Colonial America, where Fairfield Williamsburg at Patriot's Place invites you to discover the culture of the past amid the luxuries of modern resort living ... This ownership is for 154,000 Annual Club Wyndham Plus Points allocated every January, and offers a greater flexibility in planning and using your timeshare. These points can be used in an infinite number of ways.  You can either use all of them at once for one long vacation or you can decide to break up your points into smaller vacations of just a few days at a time and get several mini vacations out of it.  Please note that this level of points has been known to get one or more weeks of vacation depending on how you use them. This ownership is permanently deeded and this level of points ownerships are still being sold for $14,000 or more at Wyndham/Fairfield, so this truly is a steal!!"

Update:  Just called Wyndham, They advise that Wyndham is not selling deeded properties at Patriots Place.  They indicated the Resort may be selling some off but you would contact the Resort Directly (presumally repros).  They also advise that Fairfield Resorts Inc. is not the management company.  Wyndham took it over awhile ago and the Active Management Company is a Wynham Company.  Given the main point of this thread, it appears that buying resale at Patriots Place could be an interesting process.

RE:  The comment to add appropriate Obscene language:  Maybe "Unethical Resellers" on E-Bay.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 21, 2011)

Ridewithme38;1128530 [/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Found this on the Internet regarding the closing company and the charity involved.
> 
> 
> Resort Closings Inc. is a for-profit company that performs real estate closings when properties are donated. Their clients include a 501(c)3 charity called Project Philanthrophy dba Donate For a Cause.
> ...


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 23, 2011)

All the answers i've been getting over the last couple days have seemed to indicate that i did buy a week 27 lock-off at Kingsgate...i called up Wyndham title again today(i think they intentional make you wait 30minutes on hold before answering), with a random number i got from resort closings, hoping it was a contract number...and they said, 'i am confirming that the contract does match the deed' 

But what confuses me....When i call Patriots place about my July 4th reservation, they confirm it and confirm that the person i bought off of was an owner...also every piece of paper that I and the previous seller signed (Except the deed) stated patriots place

I mean i don't want to rock the boat too much, because i'd be super happy if i did end up owning at Kingsgate(Thats a preferable resort to me over Patriots place, but i could never find the week i wanted)...But if the original seller thought they sold me Patriots place and they realize they gave the wrong contract number or something later on....Couldn't they just take it back from me since all the paper work says Patriots place?


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 23, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> I keep the Kingsgate unit. Has indoor pool and game room.
> 
> Now ask your seller for a guest letter to the resort so you can checkin.
> 
> Ride, you could have so much FUN with this. You, daughter and EX, all homeless over a holiday week.



Ride, 
See this is how it will go down. Seller owned both and turn them over to PCC. PCC auction one off to you as PP and deeded you the Kingsgate. Wyndham likes you as the Kingsgate owner; you are happiest as Kingsgate owner.

If PPC lists and sell the Kingsgate to someone, Wyndham will not recognize the transfer to the new eBAY buyer ... not in correct name of prior owner on deed. Come MFs time in a couple of months, invoice should be in YOUR name for Kingsgate.

PCC wrote you a guest letter for the other unit at PP. Resort has you as the inbound. Have a nice weekend. 

Looks like 2012 WK 27 will have you in Kingsgate.

And you are unhappy WHY? If PCC figures out the goof, you can tell them you are keeping Kingsgate. Remember, PCC just sent $299 to Wyndham-land to put the deed in your name. I can't see where they would WANT to spend $299 to put it out of your name and $299 to put PP in your name and then $299 to put another person into ownership of Kingsgate, when they find an owner. Right now, they are clearly $598 ahead and down one deed.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 23, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ride,
> See this is how it will go down. Seller owned both and turn them over to PCC. PCC auction one off to you as PP and deeded you the Kingsgate. Wyndham likes you as the Kingsgate owner; you are happiest as Kingsgate owner.
> 
> If PPC lists and sell the Kingsgate to someone, Wyndham will not recognize the transfer to the new eBAY buyer ... not in correct name of prior owner on deed. Come MFs time in a couple of months, invoice should be in YOUR name for Kingsgate.
> ...



Linda, have i told you lately how awesome you are??


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## am1 (Jun 23, 2011)

Just use this years week and walk away if what you are being given is not what you purchased.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 23, 2011)

am1 said:


> Just use this years week and walk away if what you are being given is not what you purchased.



The thing is...I kinda want what i've been given more then what i purchased...i'm just hoping it ends up working out that way...i mean i'd be happy either way...but a 3br lock-off on week 27 is better then a 2br lock-off on week 27 :ignore: 

I'm thinking i'll just shut up for the next 4-6 weeks it takes Wyndham to record me as a member...and see how everything works out


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 23, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm thinking i'll just shut up for the next 4-6 weeks ...



DeniseM --- a promise by our wayward newbie --- he is giving up the shovel.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 23, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> DeniseM --- a promise by our wayward newbie --- he is giving up the shovel.



Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. I agree with the earlier post.  If Wyndham indicated the contract matched the deed just do an occassional update or so with Wyndham to get the transaction through.  Then make sure you can see it on line in your Wyndam account.  I would not do anything else at this point until Title processes the paperwork.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 23, 2011)

Big surprise to me . . . that Donate for a Cause was involved in this mess.  I'm sorry that you have to deal with the frustration in getting resolution.  Between DFAC and Wyndham you've got your hands full.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 24, 2011)

Ok, Carlina got in touch with me today...Said the closing was concluded and it will be followed up with by the admin staff...Sent me a copy of the Original Deed and the ARF(Whats an ARF?)

I don't know where she got the part about Kingsgate to add to the deed


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## slip (Jun 24, 2011)

Ride

So what does this mean? What do you own? Are they still working on it?


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 24, 2011)

slip said:


> Ride
> 
> So what does this mean? What do you own? Are they still working on it?



I'm about 99% sure i bought at Patriots place...Because the ARF specificly mentioned Patriots place...But i think its all going to depend on how Wyndham reads the deed and since the deed transfered from the original owners name to the PCC's name before me...No one knows which one of the thousands of accounts the PCC's own Wyndham will think i now own


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## slip (Jun 24, 2011)

That's what I was thinking also. I don't think there were any issues, just confusion
on the way the deed reads. Enjoys your first stay.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 24, 2011)

slip said:


> That's what I was thinking also. I don't think there were any issues, just confusion
> on the way the deed reads. Enjoys your first stay.



Yah it was just odd...It seems like they basicly copied the deed exactly...except decided to add the word 'Kingsgate' I have no idea why they would do that


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## ronparise (Jun 24, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm thinking i'll just shut up for the next 4-6 weeks it takes Wyndham to record me as a member...and see how everything works out



Yea; right


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 24, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Yea; right



haha, you guys are starting to know me too well around here! 

I'm starting to get a Cliff Clavin from Cheers feeling!


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 24, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> haha, you guys are starting to know me too well around here!
> 
> I'm starting to get a Cliff Clavin from Cheers feeling!



Cliffy --- that types well. I hereby dub you "Cliffy" via your TUG-Linda-Mom.
Please update you signature line on your profile to reflect your proper name.


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