# I found an LLC with 42 RCI Saratoga Springs listings



## cbyrne1174 (Sep 23, 2019)

So I figured out why even SSR has been harder to find on RCI. This LLC manages people's Wyndham accounts, books SSR and sells them on Ebay. VacationstrategyLLC. I filed a complaint with the BBB and looked at their feedback history. They have positive feedback from 42 SSR listings on their feedback page. I complained to both RCI and Ebay, so hopefully the availability should be a little better for owners. What's really messed up is that the owners that are using this LLC are probably unaware this company is using their account to violate RCI's terms of service. The owner will have their RCI account revoked while the LLC has no repercussion. 






Here is the verbage in their listing that made me realize it was RCI.









https://www.vacationstrategy.com/


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## paxsarah (Sep 23, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> What's really messed up is that the owners that are using this LLC are probably unaware this company is using their account to violate RCI's terms of service. The owner will have their RCI account revoked while the LLC has no repercussion.



That is super cruddy. I think in the past some people speculated that it may be PCCs putting some of these exchanges on eBay, in which case even though it's against RCI's terms, presumably they're not operating on behalf of a active and engaged owner. But here, many of these owners may still be using Wyndham and RCI for their own vacations as well as renting some of their points out through this LLC.


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## paxsarah (Sep 23, 2019)

Found in their agreement here: "IN NO CASE WILL WE EVER PUT AN OWNER AT RISK OF LOSING POINTS." Pretty sure they're violating their own agreement if they're doing RCI rentals.


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## Princ3ssgldy (Sep 23, 2019)

This is a very important find on your part-- the eBay seller is causing his clients to violate the terms of their agreement with RCI (and possible their timeshare company as well), and jeopardizing the clients' accounts. 

The problem is that eBay probably won't close their account because they make money from every sale and they're don't care much about the terms and conditions of RCI. RCI would be the ones that have an interest to act, but they have no way of identifying the offending accounts (provided that more than one account has the same week reserved at SSR). The only way for them to do this would be to purchase the reservation on eBay, give them a name, and see which account makes a reservation under that name, but that seems like too much work.

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with this seller?


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## montygz (Sep 23, 2019)

This was posted a year ago and the seller continues to do business, which means that eBay doesn't care, RCI doesn't care and DVC doesn't care.


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## DannyTS (Sep 23, 2019)

Princ3ssgldy said:


> RCI would be the ones that have an interest to act, but they have no way of identifying the offending accounts (provided that more than one account has the same week reserved at SSR). The only way for them to do this would be to purchase the reservation on eBay, give them a name, and see which account makes a reservation under that name, but that seems like too much work.



My suspicion is that this company also owns quite a bit of cheap RCI points and it should be easy for RCI and for DVC to smoke them out, freeze their account and leave them without a business since their business model is virtually a fraud. 

It is rather obtuse on the part of RCI to turn a blind eye on this with the idea that they are making money with the exchange fees paid by this company. Not only that is not a reason to ignore your own rules but also the Disney resorts disappear like hotcakes from RCI so they would make the same amount of money from the legit exchangers.


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## DannyTS (Sep 23, 2019)

if I were a DVC owner I would complain about this at every owner update and tell them I would no longer buy from them until the $1000 rentals on Ebay disappear.


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## bendadin (Sep 24, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> if I were a DVC owner I would complain about this at every owner update and tell them I would no longer buy from them until the $1000 rentals on Ebay disappear.



There is no such thing as an owner update. They just say "Welcome Home" and set you on your way. We've never been approached in the parks EVER. We do get DVC magnets on our stateroom doors when we cruise with them. We get invited to a member mixer and they have optional sit-downs but they don't initiate it. They do, however, have the best purchase incentives on the ships. 

The closest I have ever seen an RCI representative is in the owner's lounge in Epcot. And that person always looks bored to death because no one, NO ONE ever talks to them.


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## DannyTS (Sep 24, 2019)

there should be a way to complain to the DVC management.


If I were RCI I would be very upset about this. If many DVC weeks are taken by bottom feeders like this that exchange say Grandview in Las Vegas and rent out SSR, they will end up with more Grandview deposits that they can match and potentially lose other interesting deposits AND exchange fees. Why would an HGVC Hawaii owner deposit in RCI for example if he was only interested in a DVC exchange? It is stupid in my opinion for RCI to think that there is no impact to their business so they should not bother to do anything about it.

Less valuable non-DVC deposits in RCI also mean that the DVC owners have less choice when they search in RCI so they will deposit less.


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## Lisa P (Sep 24, 2019)

With the TPU/RCI Points exchange systems, RCI can readily address the imbalance internally. They may simply readjust (downward) the amount of TPUs given to the over-deposited cheap weeks. This may be why they don't appear to care. It's easier to manipulate their own points charts than to chase after problem LLC exchange renters who ghost through other owners' accounts.


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## sjsharkie (Sep 24, 2019)

The problem is this is not illegal.  You might get eBay to act with a complaint, but I'm not sure they are going to take action on the basis of one complaint from a 3rd party that has no standing in the transaction. (Keep in mind, they need to weed out false reports from competitors trying to take down legit ads -- this happens as well.)

This is a breach of the agreement between the owner and RCI.  AFAIK, RCI doesn't enforce their "no rental of exchanges" rule; certainly, not as forcefully as Interval.  I've seen posts in the past where people have complained directly to RCI and no action was taken.

As others have pointed out, eBay is getting their money and RCI is getting their money -- trying to prove which accounts are renting is time consuming and I sincerely doubt you will have success here.  It does suck and I applaud your efforts, but I think it will amount to nothing unless the LLC starts ripping off their customers.

-ryan


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## DannyTS (Sep 24, 2019)

Lisa P said:


> With the TPU/RCI Points exchange systems, RCI can readily address the imbalance internally. They may simply readjust (downward) the amount of TPUs given to the over-deposited cheap weeks. This may be why they don't appear to care. It's easier to manipulate their own points charts than to chase after problem LLC exchange renters who ghost through other owners' accounts.


Yes and no. If this company uses RCI points contracts for example, it will get a set number of points and that cannot be changed. If someone has a Grandview contract worth 98,000 RCI points he will get the same number of points every year regardless of the number of Grandview weeks deposited on any given year.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 24, 2019)

I have been complaining about this for years.  RCI doesn't care and Disney doesn't care.  

Interval International took care of things.  They still watch over Redweek, My Resort Network, and any other listings they can figure out.


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## alwysonvac (Sep 24, 2019)

Yup folks have been complaining for years.

Here’s a thread from ten years ago. Posted March 2009 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...than-7-a-point-why-did-i-buy-dvc-again.93703/

     FLDVCFamily wrote the following in that 2009 thread (post#35 & 36)
_
*I emailed DVC member satisfaction and talked to them on the phone about this several times.  They sounded concerned, but yet the exchanges for rent are still coming up in droves.  *Honestly, short of assigning someone to chase this full-time, I don't think that there is much that they can do.  *I even asked an RCI rep. about it, and she said that technically it's not allowed, but they won't stop people unless they're doing it repeatedly as a business* We're also going to sell most of our DVC points.  We're keeping the small contract for the AP discount.  We can trade in much more cheaply via RCI now, so there is no point in owning DVC anymore for us.  The units available through RCI are a lot better than the units that I saw coming up on II.  My resorts are dual-affiliated, so either exchange company is fine with me trade-wise.  I hope that the great deposits into RCI continue!  If not, then it's going to be Bonnet Creek for us 

Well, unless DVC really presses RCI, I don't think that they will be doing their own policing.  *The RCI rep. that I spoke to when depositing a week recently told me that they just don't stop people from renting their exchanges unless it's being done frequently as a "business".  Her exact words were "do it once, we won't stop you.  Do it twice, we still won't stop you.  Do it as a business and we'll restrict online access to your RCI account."* Yeaaaah.  I don't think that they'll be policing much_​


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## DannyTS (Sep 24, 2019)

the company currently has 180 listings on Ebay and it claims to have had 30,000 clients. Does this not meet the "business" standard?


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## alwysonvac (Sep 24, 2019)

Yup and there are TUG posts about this specific Wyndham point manager.

From an old 2014 thread


Vacationfuntips said:


> I have never used them and have not had a reason to.  This is what I do know about them  - Vacation Strategy LLC rents out many Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort reservations.  They are very popular on www.disboards.com a site that is devoted to Disney World (Florida) vacation planning.
> 
> However, many people on www.disboards.com say they give great pricing for Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort bookings.  From my understanding they also rent out vacations for other destinations as well.
> 
> I do not know the other end  - how they deal with owners to get their points for their rentals and reservations.  There are many businesses like Vacation Strategy LLC out there that use and pay for owners points. Some pay owners a higher dollar for their points





ronparise said:


> I have visited them in their Orlando offices and met with the owner and sales staff, I have also toured their operation. I saw both ends of the operation in action, folks that dealt with owners like me, and the reservations staff.
> 
> The owner is a former Wyndham salesman and is an owner himself. He started by renting his own points and grew into one of the largest operations of its kind.
> 
> ...


From a recent 2019 thread


Lisa P said:


> Vacation Strategy has been around for a few years, yes. They're regularly mentioned on the DisBoards' Orlando Hotels and Attractions forum as a source of Wyndham Bonnet Creek direct bookings and vacation rentals. As a points manager, they are given access to owner accounts to make reservations for rental customers. Many of their client timeshare points owners have Wyndham Platinum VIP privileges which may include unlimited guest certificates and discounts for reservations made within 60 days of check-in. Vacation Strategy's website does indicate that they favor making reservations within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> I'm not sure if they have client timeshare points owners from other systems besides Wyndham but it would not be surprising. Some of their client owners may have platinum exchange company memberships as well, which would provide for unlimited or discounted guest certs. Vacation Strategy may also hold multiple exchange company memberships. Who knows?
> 
> Here's my thought (or question)... if they were to use client owners' accounts to access RCI and make exchanges, those various owners' RCI accounts would have the individual guest certificates associated with each of them, wouldn't they? If that occurred (a big IF, admittedly), one RCI account would not accumulate tons of guest certs and raise red flags


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## Dean (Sep 25, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> there should be a way to complain to the DVC management.
> 
> 
> If I were RCI I would be very upset about this. If many DVC weeks are taken by bottom feeders like this that exchange say Grandview in Las Vegas and rent out SSR, they will end up with more Grandview deposits that they can match and potentially lose other interesting deposits AND exchange fees. Why would an HGVC Hawaii owner deposit in RCI for example if he was only interested in a DVC exchange? It is stupid in my opinion for RCI to think that there is no impact to their business so they should not bother to do anything about it.
> ...


This isn't really a problem to DVC, any week that is given and used at DVC from RCI makes DVC & Disney whole.  They only limited issue from their standpoint is that it may hurt sales slightly though it likely makes no difference.  This does not affect the value of DVC deposits from a DVC member standpoint.  It does have some affect on RCI members who want to exchange there but in reality exchanges have never been a truly fair and equal system and likely never will be from a member standpoint.  Of course what each one things is fair is different which is partly the reason why there will never be a perfect system.  RCI tries to balance making everyone happy and making the most money they can but they are competing goals.  It could hurt members trying to rent out but it doesn't seem to have other than maybe on Ebay itself which is a poor method anyway.  



sjsharkie said:


> The problem is this is not illegal.  You might get eBay to act with a complaint, but I'm not sure they are going to take action on the basis of one complaint from a 3rd party that has no standing in the transaction. (Keep in mind, they need to weed out false reports from competitors trying to take down legit ads -- this happens as well.)
> 
> This is a breach of the agreement between the owner and RCI.  AFAIK, RCI doesn't enforce their "no rental of exchanges" rule; certainly, not as forcefully as Interval.  I've seen posts in the past where people have complained directly to RCI and no action was taken.
> 
> ...


Correct, not illegal but against RCI's own rules which they have chosen not to enforce.  And given the history and track record, it's a conscious choice I believe. 



DannyTS said:


> Yes and no. If this company uses RCI points contracts for example, it will get a set number of points and that cannot be changed. If someone has a Grandview contract worth 98,000 RCI points he will get the same number of points every year regardless of the number of Grandview weeks deposited on any given year.


Yes but the cost of exchanges can vary so the value of each of those points can change.


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## DannyTS (Sep 25, 2019)

Dean said:


> This isn't really a problem to DVC, any week that is given and used at DVC from RCI makes DVC & Disney whole.  They only limited issue from their standpoint is that it may hurt sales slightly though it likely makes no difference.  This does not affect the value of DVC deposits from a DVC member standpoint.  It does have some affect on RCI members who want to exchange there but in reality exchanges have never been a truly fair and equal system and likely never will be from a member standpoint.  Of course what each one things is fair is different which is partly the reason why there will never be a perfect system.  RCI tries to balance making everyone happy and making the most money they can but they are competing goals.  It could hurt members trying to rent out but it doesn't seem to have other than maybe on Ebay itself which is a poor method anyway.
> 
> Correct, not illegal but against RCI's own rules which they have chosen not to enforce.  And given the history and track record, it's a conscious choice I believe.
> 
> Yes but the cost of exchanges can vary so the value of each of those points can change.



It is a problem to the DVC owners if they want to trade more but there are very few quality deposits. RCI inventory is flooded with second tier resorts. If you owned an HGVC Hawaii and a Grandview Las Vegas enrolled in RCI points, which one would you deposit?


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## paxsarah (Sep 25, 2019)

It seems like the problem is it's RCI's rule, but the best place to catch these particular exchange rentals is on the eBay side. On the RCI side, because it's a points manager it's likely many different accounts and very difficult to track. On the eBay side, they're all listed by the same seller, and they're all identifiable as exchanges by the disclosed $190 fee. But eBay doesn't have any incentive to enforce RCI's terms of service, possibly even if RCI contacted them directly to request it, but definitely when seemingly random individuals contact them.

The only thing I could find that might help RCI track down these accounts, if they even were interested in doing some work to do so (which I'm not sure we know they do), is on the LLC's Wyndham owner agreement is this language: "VSLLC will have to put our email address on the Owner’s Wyndham Account to keep our company computer system in sync with Wyndham. Here is an example of the new email that will be on your Wyndham account: (Owner_Name@speedy-email.com)." If VSLLC is indeed using that domain (speedy-email.com) in the email address for each of their managed accounts, RCI could presumably find those accounts on their end and flag them/cancel the exchanges, etc.

The only other avenue I see would start at the individual owners whose points are managed by this company. If they became aware that their RCI accounts were being used against the terms of service, and cared enough to take it up with VSLLC, it might make some difference.


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## Dean (Sep 25, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> It is a problem to the DVC owners if they want to trade more but there are very few quality deposits. RCI inventory is flooded with second tier resorts. If you owned an HGVC Hawaii and a Grandview Las Vegas enrolled in RCI points, which one would you deposit?


But the point was it doesn't have any significant affect what RCI gets.  On the RCI points side they get the underlying week and it drains the points.  It's simply accounting on total points in and out, the weeks they get are already determined by the underlying week of the points or based on the agreement with the entity for those where the points go first and the deposit second.  In your example RCI gets the points for each if you're enrolled and the only way they don't is if you use the option to reserve your week up front which would not affect this issue either way.  On the weeks side, the deposits are what they are, they get the same deposits regardless.  It might make a difference in what other owners will see for DVC and other high end resorts so it might affect the next few in line with exchange requests but not RCI directly.  While one might argue that some of those might give up on RCI and vote with their wallets, I think the volume in question compared to the overall is that this is a non consideration.  

And while I don't necessarily agree with the insider access of some systems, it likely does mean that RCI gets more and overall better deposits than without that system in place.  RCI is flooded with second tier resorts anyway, as is II.  That's why depositing low or high end options is often not a good choice.  If one deposits something they could have rented for a lot more and doesn't get good value in return, that's a choice they made.  If one deposits low demand options on the weeks side many of those will go unmatched or will match to other low end options (or short notice options) and on the points side they'd have to deposit a number of weeks to get sufficient points to reserve something high end.


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## DannyTS (Sep 25, 2019)

Dean said:


> But the point was it doesn't have any significant affect what RCI gets.  On the RCI points side they get the underlying week and it drains the points.  It's simply accounting on total points in and out, the weeks they get are already determined by the underlying week of the points or based on the agreement with the entity for those where the points go first and the deposit second.  In your example RCI gets the points for each if you're enrolled and the only way they don't is if you use the option to reserve your week up front which would not affect this issue either way.  On the weeks side, the deposits are what they are, they get the same deposits regardless.  It might make a difference in what other owners will see for DVC and other high end resorts so it might affect the next few in line with exchange requests but not RCI directly.  While one might argue that some of those might give up on RCI and vote with their wallets, I think the volume in question compared to the overall is that this is a non consideration.
> 
> And while I don't necessarily agree with the insider access of some systems, it likely does mean that RCI gets more and overall better deposits than without that system in place.  RCI is flooded with second tier resorts anyway, as is II.  That's why depositing low or high end options is often not a good choice.  If one deposits something they could have rented for a lot more and doesn't get good value in return, that's a choice they made.  If one deposits low demand options on the weeks side many of those will go unmatched or will match to other low end options (or short notice options) and on the points side they'd have to deposit a number of weeks to get sufficient points to reserve something high end.


I think you see it purely as an accounting matter. As long as they match all the DVC deposits, they are fine. I am telling you, part of the reason why people do not deposit MORE in RCI is the lack of good deposits for other resorts. I understand they do not know what they are losing in potential deposits (and exchange fees of course) but it is probably significant


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## paxsarah (Sep 25, 2019)

I don't understand the supposed connection between these rented DVC exchanges and the lack of good deposits in RCI. I'm going to guess that most of them were done with Wyndham points, so it just means more Wyndham deposits (determined by the corporate side, not individual owners) in RCI - so it's neither high-end nor low-end. And honestly, in the overall scheme of things, a small handful of Wyndham deposits. Although it's super annoying to us because we watch these things so closely, it's all still a pretty small drop in the RCI sea.


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## DannyTS (Sep 25, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> I don't understand the supposed connection between these rented DVC exchanges and the lack of good deposits in RCI. I'm going to guess that most of them were done with Wyndham points, so it just means more Wyndham deposits (determined by the corporate side, not individual owners) in RCI - so it's neither high-end nor low-end. And honestly, in the overall scheme of things, a small handful of Wyndham deposits. Although it's super annoying to us because we watch these things so closely, it's all still a pretty small drop in the RCI sea.


Owners want to ideally trade like for like or better. The less the DVC owners see in RCI, the less they deposit.
There is also a multiplier factor that cannot be ignored even if you think the numbers are small. Someone who never had success trading would probably abandon looking for a trade for many years. 

In any case, from all my interactions with them, RCI it is a terrible company and I am not totally sure why DVC is doing business with RCI. As far as I am concerned they can designate VacationStrategy their favorite platinum, diamond, super distributor and build a monument for them,  I do not really care. I am still shocked that this company was able to book Aulani despite the fact that no TUGger has spotted them in RCI in years. Luck or there is something else going on?


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## DannyTS (Sep 25, 2019)

this is my conversation today with them on EBAY. Slippery like a fish, they would not state that the reservation can  be confirmed by DVC. Of course not since it is most likely an RCI exchange. Note: you have to read from the bottom to the top


*New message from: vacationstrategyllc 


(257
	

)*

*We will provide you with the phone number to confirm. It will be under my name and we can request them to forward the reservation to DVC on the same call.*

Reply
Your previous message

Right, but I need a confirmation from DVC or RCI or Interval, Expedia etc. I cannot pay thousands of dollars for the plane tickets in addition to the 6000 dollars for the condo without a confirmation from a known travel agency.
vacationstrategyllc:

We have a confirmed reservation. We will send you the guest certificate within few days of the purchase. Interval International booking system is different then what we have. We have booked Aulani reservation through our points.
Thanks


ME:

It sounds good, similar to another vacation we bought last year. With the other owner though we received a confirmation from Interval International and then we booked the plane tickets. Can we do that?

vacationstrategyllc:

We secure the unit under your name in our company system. We forward your info into the reservation system which we work with. They then create a guest certificate 15 days prior to arrival and send it into the DVC system.
Your previous message

ME:

thank you, we are interested at this price. Once we confirm, what's next? Can you please walk me through the process?

vacationstrategyllc:

Thank you for your interest in our property.

The best rate we are able to offer is $5985

If you have any additional question please let us know and we will be happy to assist you.
Your previous message

ME:
HI, I am interested but we have to talk about the price. Let me know if you would accept $5800. Thanks

*Disney Vacation Club Resort AULANI, Oahu, HAWAII Feb 9th (7 NIGHTS) 2 BR/2 Bath*


*

*
*Price: US $6,300.00*
*Buy it now*
*Watchers: 8*
*Quantity Remaining: 1*
*Buy it now*
*Get to know the seller vacationstrategyllc*
*• Located: Celebration, FL, United States*
*• Member since: Jun 24, 2016*
*• Positive Feedback: 100%*


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## frank808 (Sep 25, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Owners want to ideally trade like for like or better. The less the DVC owners see in RCI, the less they deposit.
> There is also a multiplier factor that cannot be ignored even if you think the numbers are small. Someone who never had success trading would probably abandon looking for a trade for many years.
> 
> In any case, from all my interactions with them, RCI it is a terrible company and I am not totally sure why DVC is doing business with RCI. As far as I am concerned they can designate VacationStrategy their favorite platinum, diamond, super distributor and build a monument for them,  I do not really care. I am still shocked that this company was able to book Aulani despite the fact that no TUGger has spotted them in RCI in years. Luck or there is something else going on?



Wyndham has "special" deal with DVC (with Aulani deposits at least).  Wyndham point owners are given a separate pool of Aulani deposits, than everyone else in RCI, to exchange.  This agreement happened years ago when all the Aulani deposits dried up for RCI exchanges. My argument is now there aren't ANY Aulani deposits for the rest of the RCI membership.  Coincidence that Wyndham owns RCI?  Wyndham owners benefit and the rest of the RCI membership gets nothing. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## paxsarah (Sep 26, 2019)

That special agreement with regard to Aulani is overstated at best, if it currently exists at all. I’ve had old OGSs running for Aulani for a couple of years, and the only match I’ve made was a phantom over a year ago. I’m sure other Wyndham owners have the same experience. The only system that has recently been seen to have a special agreement with DVC/RCI is Welk.


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## Dean (Sep 26, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I think you see it purely as an accounting matter. As long as they match all the DVC deposits, they are fine. I am telling you, part of the reason why people do not deposit MORE in RCI is the lack of good deposits for other resorts. I understand they do not know what they are losing in potential deposits (and exchange fees of course) but it is probably significant


But that's a big picture issue with many other (and more applicable) factors and the situation being discussed has little to do with that big picture.  Whether it's II or RCI it's foolish to deposit high end options routinely including DVC.  As I've said for 25 years, there are limited resorts where it makes sense exchanging DVC in (then II) or now RCI.  At least DVC has the option of doing request first.  With II, which tends to have better resorts overall, I'd never deposit my highest end options unless I had a special situation like short notice change of plans. The reality is that even if they put a complete end to this it would make no difference other than on the emotional side.


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## DannyTS (Sep 26, 2019)

Dean said:


> But that's a big picture issue with many other (and more applicable) factors and the situation being discussed has little to do with that big picture.  Whether it's II or RCI it's foolish to deposit high end options routinely including DVC.  As I've said for 25 years, there are limited resorts where it makes sense exchanging DVC in (then II) or now RCI.  At least DVC has the option of doing request first.  With II, which tends to have better resorts overall, I'd never deposit my highest end options unless I had a special situation like short notice change of plans. The reality is that even if they put a complete end to this it would make no difference other than on the emotional side.



RCI lacks good inventory in part because the top resort developers like DVC,  HGVC, Wyndham etc have internal exchange systems both for retail and resale owners. Interval on the other hand has Marriott and Vistana that have a large number of owners that are not enrolled in their points systems so a much larger number of owners have to exchange through Interval. That attracts additional deposits from other top resorts.

I still believe though that the bottom feeders that rent out RCI exchanges do not help the inventory and they reinforce the idea that there is not much to be found in RCI so most owners do not even bother to check any longer. The RCI rental business is also more spread out  than one may think. The Ebay listings are those that stand out but  there are other channels as well. A friend of mine has been using a travel agency from Canada for years and he told me that the confirmations are from RCI. He was very surprised when I told him that it is against the RCI rules and the agency may have problems one day. That travel agency does not advertise these deals, it just offers them to their regular customers as a cheaper alternative to the traditional channels. They have returning customers that go back to them year after year because they are cheaper than the alternative.


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## Dean (Sep 26, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> RCI lacks good inventory in part because the top resort developers like DVC,  HGVC, Wyndham etc have internal exchange systems both for retail and resale owners. Interval on the other hand has Marriott and Vistana that have a large number of owners that are not enrolled in their points systems so a much larger number of owners have to exchange through Interval. That attracts additional deposits from other top resorts.
> 
> I still believe though that the bottom feeders that rent out RCI exchanges do not help the inventory and they reinforce the idea that there is not much to be found in RCI so most owners do not even bother to check any longer. The RCI rental business is also more spread out  than one may think. The Ebay listings are those that stand out but  there are other channels as well. A friend of mine has been using a travel agency from Canada for years and he told me that the confirmations are from RCI. He was very surprised when I told him that it is against the RCI rules and the agency may have problems one day. That travel agency does not advertise these deals, it just offers them to their regular customers as a cheaper alternative to the traditional channels. They have returning customers that go back to them year after year because they are cheaper than the alternative.


Certainly there are many factors for the availability of exchanges.  Internal exchange and exchange company internal priorities are likely the 2 largest factors out side of the inherent value of the underlying week which is (or should be) the largest deterrent to routine deposit IMO.  IMO Ebay and rentals of exchanges is not enough of an issue to have any effect on availability but even if someone believes it should make the list, clearly it's a small fish in a large pond.  Personally it doesn't matter to me because I believe we should follow the rules though I also believe that companies have the right to waive those rules if they so chose.  For example let's say your CC payment got to the company on the day after it was due.  They way their internal systems work, you'd almost certainly have a late payment and/or interest due. They will often waive those charges if you question it and sometimes, even if you don't.  To hold that companies don't have the right to selectively waive such rules would mean you could never accept any such grace.  Tying this in to DVC it would mean that DVC could never waive rules for personal emergencies which they do all the time.  If you read the legal documentation for RCI and II, rentals would never be allowed as I interpret those.  RCI semi official violates that all the time because they will routinely and formally allow rentals where you only get the exchange fee and any other direct costs like Guest Cert fee.  Thus they are violating their own rules routinely as I interpret the information.  

So personally I think they should close this down but it is their rule and I don't think it has any real affect on the system as a whole. It does have an affect on RCI members trying to exchange into DVC but even that's likely minor as there are other factors that determine who would get X exchange.  And it likely has a minor affect on rental prices for DVC owners.  It would not have any affect at all on availability for DVC owners even with your argument that this is a major reason people don't deposit with RCI.  I'm sure you can find someone who said it was but realistically that would be a drop in the bucket.


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## Princ3ssgldy (Sep 26, 2019)

Maybe the best move here is, as they say, if you can't beat them, join them. If this seller is making money off of his RCI rentals, then why can't we. Either way, with more competition, he loses. And if enough people do it, then perhaps RCI will start paying closer attention.


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## Dean (Sep 26, 2019)

Princ3ssgldy said:


> Maybe the best move here is, as they say, if you can't beat them, join them. If this seller is making money off of his RCI rentals, then why can't we. Either way, with more competition, he loses. And if enough people do it, then perhaps RCI will start paying closer attention.


2 reasons I can think of.  First, honesty/integrity, second it puts your RCI account at risk.  I don't believe in situational ethics.


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

If the rental is legit (reservation made by a DVC owner in their system), can the guest receive a confirmation from Disney right away or only prior to check in?


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> That special agreement with regard to Aulani is overstated at best, if it currently exists at all. I’ve had old OGSs running for Aulani for a couple of years, and the only match I’ve made was a phantom over a year ago. I’m sure other Wyndham owners have the same experience. The only system that has recently been seen to have a special agreement with DVC/RCI is Welk.



So this question remains unanswered: how is this company able to book Aulani in RCI? Do they have help from an RCI empoyee? They had other Aulani listings in the past so I doubt that it is pure luck.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> If the rental is legit (reservation made by a DVC owner in their system), can the guest receive a confirmation from Disney right away or only prior to check in?


No, DVC will not talk to a third party even if it's in their name.  This is their formal policy which creates issues for third party exchange companies like SFX.  They will talk to the person who's name is on an RCI exchange even if on a guest certificate.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2019)

Question to ask on the Aulani, "What is the vacation plan #?"  What view is it.  If this is a legitimate DVC booking, you should know the view.


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## Lisa P (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> The less the DVC owners see in RCI, the less they deposit.... Someone who never had success trading would probably abandon looking for a trade for many years.


Consider that DVC members may "Request First" and have access to The Registry Collection of RCI resorts. This may mitigate such concern.



DannyTS said:


> RCI lacks good inventory in part because the top resort developers like DVC, HGVC, Wyndham etc have internal exchange systems both for retail and resale owners. Interval on the other hand has Marriott and Vistana that have a large number of owners that are not enrolled in their points systems so a much larger number of owners have to exchange through Interval.


Owners with companies like Marriott, Hyatt, and Sheraton are offered internal preference when exchanging into their home system via II. So prime deposited inventory from those companies is less readily available to II members with top tier independent resorts. Both II and RCI have special programs to boost exchanging satisfaction for some brand depositors above the experience of the general member body.



DannyTS said:


> The RCI rental business is also more spread out  than one may think. ... there are other channels as well.


Absolutely agree. Besides individuals on a tiny scale and points manager businesses on a moderate scale, the largest timeshare rental businesses of all are offered by the exchange companies themselves. While RCI and II (and other smaller competitors) offer rentals, getaways, bonus weeks, etc. to their exchange members, they also have authorized online outlets for the general public, such as CondoDirect and SkyAuction. There is no way for any of us to know _with certainty_ that prime rental weeks don't ever come from exchange inventory. We also cannot know _with certainty_ whether either of the two major exchange companies have negotiated any kind of business deal with any smaller rental businesses. The travel industry is complex.

I suspect that these small LLCs are simply not making a noticeable dent in RCI's business or significantly impacting RCI's member satisfaction. If they do, RCI would (or will) get involved. Meanwhile, nothing has changed in terms of sightings that cannot be explained by a change in deposit patterns by the resort systems. Prime deposits continue to match to waiting OGS requests before appearing to sit available online, for the most part. Some people are happy with trades, others are not. Not much new, really, IMO.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2019)

If this company is using multiple owner accounts to book these (maybe using the idea of helping others as a facade?), they are getting them cheaply through Wyndham points.  105K points + exchange and guest fees is a pretty minimum cost to rent for $1,300.  

The Aulani is a conundrum.

I would bet the owner of this ebay name is watching this thread.  I think some of the worst offenders at renting are probably frequent visitors of TUG, but are probably infrequent posters.


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

Just a note, if you are an honest person following all the rules, you should not rent out anything, even your own deeded week. Not just the exchanges. All timeshares I have seen have clauses against use for commercial purposes. Personal use only.


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## cbyrne1174 (Sep 27, 2019)

If you own a house, but don't want to lose the real estate while you aren't occupying it, renting it out is the obvious decision. Same with time sharing. You own what you intend to use and rent out what you cant occupy. You're just not allowed to have rentals on a commercial level where you make a living off of it.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> Just a note, if you are an honest person following all the rules, you should not rent out anything, even your own deeded week. Not just the exchanges. All timeshares I have seen have clauses against use for commercial purposes. Personal use only.


This is not accurate.  In this context commercial doesn't mean limited rentals.  DVC specifically and contractually allows rentals as does Marriott.


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

Dean said:


> This is not accurate.  In this context commercial doesn't mean limited rentals.  DVC specifically and contractually allows rentals as does Marriott.



Look at this, from one of my owned resorts:



 

A similar language exists in most timeshares. Any rental activity done for profit may be considered commercial purpose at resort's discretion. It says "*any purposes other than the personal use is expressly prohibited*".


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> Look at this, from one of my owned resorts:
> 
> View attachment 14307
> 
> A similar language exists in most timeshares. Any rental activity done for profit may be considered commercial purpose at resort's discretion. It says "*any purposes other than the personal use is expressly prohibited*".


what timeshare is this?


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## TheHolleys87 (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> If the rental is legit (reservation made by a DVC owner in their system), can the guest receive a confirmation from Disney right away or only prior to check in?





Dean said:


> No, DVC will not talk to a third party even if it's in their name.  This is their formal policy which creates issues for third party exchange companies like SFX.  They will talk to the person who's name is on an RCI exchange even if on a guest certificate.



OTOH if the rental is made directly with the DVC owner, the renter can get an email confirmation showing the renter’s name from the DVC owner as soon as the reservation is placed in the renter’s name. Normally that’s after payment is made, either partial or full payment depending on the owner’s policy. As Dean said, DVC will not talk to the renter.


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

Vistana makes it clear that the home resort reservations can be rented:

8.2 Network Member Rentals. A Network Member may reserve a Vacation Period at the Network Member’s
*Home Resort* and *rent it* on the Network Member's own account. All renters must comply with the rules and
regulations of the Resort Documents affecting occupancy, and the renting Network Member will be responsible for
the acts or omissions of the Network Member's renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Network
Member to use the Unit. Rental by a Network Member of Units reserved through the Network (other than a Vacation
Period reserved at the Network Member’s *Home Resort*) is prohibited.


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Vistana makes it clear that the home resort reservations can be rented:
> 
> 8.2 Network Member Rentals. A Network Member may reserve a Vacation Period at the Network Member’s
> *Home Resort* and *rent it* on the Network Member's own account. All renters must comply with the rules and
> ...



These are VSN rules. Look at the actual condo rules on the resort level. Most, if not all of these, contain personal use only provisions. Therefore, strictly speaking, you should not rent out your owned weeks for profit.

There is no material difference whether you rent out for profit an II or RCI exchange or your deeded week, from the "rules" point of view. The only practical difference if whether it's enforced in real life.


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> what timeshare is this?



This is Hyatt. I don't own Disney, but I own quite a few timeshares, and there is a personal use restriction in every one of them. Here are a couple of examples:

Harborside:




WKORV:


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> Look at this, from one of my owned resorts:
> 
> View attachment 14307
> 
> A similar language exists in most timeshares. Any rental activity done for profit may be considered commercial purpose at resort's discretion. It says "*any purposes other than the personal use is expressly prohibited*".


This is not related to renting but running a business venture out of the location.  The POS talks a lot about renting including that one is competing with Disney.  Here's one such passage from the POS 7d.


> DVD's approval of a rental by an owner is not required after a reservation is made in the renters own name.


Under XII 12.1 it says 





> Use of the accommodation and recreation Facilities of the Condominium is limited solely to the person use of Owners, their Lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees ...


It sets forth that rental agreements shall be in writing and that one notifies DVCMC of rentals. 

Under Exhibit G/V. Rentals


> A club member may make a reservation to use the Vacation Homes for the club members own use, make their use available to family or friends or guests, or rent then solely through the club members own efforts


  They do talk about limiting commercial renting definition to be determined later.

Here's a link to the DVC news article on the updated definition of commercial renting.  https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...commercial-renting-limitations-amended-to-pos

I say again that renting is expressly allowed and I would add that commercial is not defined by profit margin.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

TheHolleys87 said:


> OTOH if the rental is made directly with the DVC owner, the renter can get an email confirmation showing the renter’s name from the DVC owner as soon as the reservation is placed in the renter’s name. Normally that’s after payment is made, either partial or full payment depending on the owner’s policy. As Dean said, DVC will not talk to the renter.


Correct though it can be changed or canceled later and this has been an issue where there were rental problems.  They can also cross check on the MDE app or website.  In many ways the exchange is actually more comforting to the person renting as they will have a reservation in their own name and DVCMC will actually talk to them as an exchanger.  At least as long as they don't know that there was a violation along the way and their reservation could be at risk for that very reason.


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> This is Hyatt. I don't own Disney, but I own quite a few timeshares, and there is a personal use restriction in every one of them. Here are a couple of examples:
> 
> Harborside:
> View attachment 14309
> ...


you are not allowed to set up a shop and sell ice-cream at their resorts, this is the meaning. As a matter of fact they specifically mention that the resorts are for the personal use of  the owners and their "lessees"


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

Yes, they talk about commercial activities at the resort, but they also talk about rentals. The resort may at any moment say that a "pattern of rental activity" constitutes use for commercial purposes and not "personal use" if an owner rents out a week for profit more than once, or just at any time at resort's discretion.

While it's vague what may be considered using for "commercial purpose", and they say it's at their discretion, at the same time they are very clear that any use other than personal use, is expressly prohibited. Renting for profit is not personal use.

Of course in practice they allow renting. But the rules say no. They can crack down at any moment. I don't see any difference between renting an owner's deeded week for profit and renting an II or RCI exchange, from the "rules" point of view. The only difference is how it works in real life and whether it's enforced.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2019)

So echino just listed another reason why people hate timeshares and want to dump them.  If you own real estate (deeded), and you cannot use that timeshare (real estate), then you should be able to rent your timeshare.  If not, how are you going to recover your MF's.  You would just lose MF's.  I have seen such language in timeshare contracts, and no one is enforcing it.  

Think of the outrage you would see on TUG, if owners couldn't rent what they cannot use next year.  And we love timeshare and dislike exit companies.  So it's true that the language is there.  It was even reinforced with my resale Shell points, which I got for free with free use.  I got a separate letter telling me I could not rent my ownership. 

I still have to say that developers get new blood (victims) all of the time from my renters, but I warn them that I got my points free and could tell them how to do what I did.  NOT ONE person has taken me up on it.  I have rented to at least 50 people over the last 8-10 years.  Most are repeat customers.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> Yes, they talk about commercial activities at the resort, but they also talk about rentals. The resort may at any moment say that a "pattern of rental activity" constitutes use for commercial purposes and not "personal use" if an owner rents out a week for profit more than once, or just at any time at resort's discretion.
> 
> While it's vague what may be considered using for "commercial purpose", and they say it's at their discretion, at the same time they are very clear that any use other than personal use, is expressly prohibited. Renting for profit is not personal use.
> 
> Of course in practice they allow renting. But the rules say no. They can crack down at any moment. I don't see any difference between renting an owner's deeded week for profit and renting an II or RCI exchange, from the "rules" point of view. The only difference is how it works in real life and whether it's enforced.


The difference is simply that renting is expressly allowed for owners with the commercial limitations.  Personal use definition includes renting.  So no they couldn't just say arbitrarily that renting isn't allowed.  The problem is that since renting is expressly allowed, if they limit too stringently and are challenged legally, they'd lose.  For RCI or II exchanges, renting is expressly prohibited even though RCI (not II) does give some flexibility to recoup direct costs. So legal, honest and ethical to rent DVC that you own, not for an exchange.


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## echino (Sep 27, 2019)

Oh yes they can, at any time, restrict renting. The language allowing they to do so is already there. It says it's at their discretion.

When you buy a full time condo to live in, it's your property, but many condos restrict renting. Same with timeshares.


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## DannyTS (Sep 27, 2019)

Dean said:


> The difference is simply that renting is expressly allowed for owners with the commercial limitations.  Personal use definition includes renting.  So no they couldn't just say arbitrarily that renting isn't allowed.  The problem is that since renting is expressly allowed, if they limit too stringently and are challenged legally, they'd lose.  For RCI or II exchanges, renting is expressly prohibited even though RCI (not II) does give some flexibility to recoup direct costs. So legal, honest and ethical to rent DVC that you own, not for an exchange.


The developers want to have it both ways: to say it is allowed because it helps their "real estate" and "investment" narrative but they also do not want competition from larger players that can buy tens and hundreds of units at their resorts and undercut their rental margins.
I  do not think anyone that rents occasionally or even regularly few units a year has anything to fear since the rentals are specifically permitted by the rules. Their language like "pattern of rental activity" is so vague that it is completely unenforceable in the case of a regular owner.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> The developers want to have it both ways: to say it is allowed because it helps their "real estate" and "investment" narrative but they also do not want competition from larger players that can buy tens and hundreds of units at their resorts and undercut their rental margins.
> I  do not think anyone that rents occasionally or even regularly few units a year has anything to fear since the rentals are specifically permitted by the rules. Their language like "pattern of rental activity" is so vague that it is completely unenforceable in the case of a regular owner.


Exactly though it's not uncommon for condo's or HOA's to limit renting as well.


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## Dean (Sep 27, 2019)

echino said:


> Oh yes they can, at any time, restrict renting. The language allowing they to do so is already there. It says it's at their discretion.
> 
> When you buy a full time condo to live in, it's your property, but many condos restrict renting. Same with timeshares.


Restrict within reason but not eliminate.


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## rickk (Sep 28, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> So I figured out why even SSR has been harder to find on RCI. This LLC manages people's Wyndham accounts, books SSR and sells them on Ebay. VacationstrategyLLC. I filed a complaint with the BBB and looked at their feedback history. They have positive feedback from 42 SSR listings on their feedback page. I complained to both RCI and Ebay, so hopefully the availability should be a little better for owners. What's really messed up is that the owners that are using this LLC are probably unaware this company is using their account to violate RCI's terms of service. The owner will have their RCI account revoked while the LLC has no repercussion.
> 
> 
> View attachment 14233
> ...


Help me to understand. Everyone here speaks in a code that I don't understand. SSR, DVC, I know what an LLC is and I know who RCI is. Where can I go to learn about what is being talked about here? I really need some help to understand. Thank You Rick Krieger


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## DeniseM (Sep 28, 2019)

SSR and DVC are the abbreviations for popular resorts.  Some forums have definitions in their stickies, but for the most part, you learn them through usage.  However, you don't really need to learn them all, unless you are interested in all resorts - I don't know them all.


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## montygz (Sep 28, 2019)

rickk said:


> Help me to understand. Everyone here speaks in a code that I don't understand. SSR, DVC, I know what an LLC is and I know who RCI is. Where can I go to learn about what is being talked about here? I really need some help to understand. Thank You Rick Krieger



SSR = Saratoga Springs resort at Disneyworld
DVC = Disney Vacation Club, the Disney timeshare system

DVC is part of the RCI network, so you can exchange into some of their units when they show up on RCI. 99% of units Disney puts into RCI are 1BR Saratoga Springs units, and they charge a $190 resort fee at check-in, so exchanges are easy to spot when listed on ebay.


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## DannyTS (Oct 8, 2019)

only 3 listing left on Ebay. I am wondering if RCI is actually starting to crack down on this ads, I doubt they were able to rent the rest so fast.


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## chemteach (Oct 8, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I would bet the owner of this ebay name is watching this thread.  I think some of the worst offenders at renting are probably frequent visitors of TUG, but are probably infrequent posters.



Agree wholeheartedly!


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## DannyTS (Feb 1, 2020)

this company is still getting the best RCI exchanges, they must have a connection there, how could they possibly be the only ones that advertise Aulani exchanges?


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## DannyTS (Feb 1, 2020)

and another one week 51!


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## CPNY (Feb 1, 2020)

This reminds me of red timeshares on redweek listing around. 20 summer weeks with harborside on one day. Makes me think that HRA and in this case RCI is probably taking the DVC inventory and passing it off to this LLC to rent the units for them. It’s a lot more beneficial to rent the units themselves and make 1000 per week than the couple of hundred buck exchange fee.


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## paxsarah (Feb 2, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> this company is still getting the best RCI exchanges, they must have a connection there, how could they possibly be the only ones that advertise Aulani exchanges?


Is there a reason you think this is an exchange rather than booked with points? I’ve never heard of DVC exchanges in RCI at 11 months out, not even with Welk.


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## DannyTS (Feb 2, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Is there a reason you think this is an exchange rather than booked with points? I’ve never heard of DVC exchanges in RCI at 11 months out, not even with Welk.


this is in the ad:
"I will need ONE full guest name (as it appears on a government issued photo ID) to put on the reservation immediately or soon after the purchase is made.  That will be the main name on the reservation.  Eventually, we will also need the names of other family members occupying the Villa as Disney requires that to be listed on the reservation 48 hours prior to check-in.  Once the ONE name has been assigned to the reservation, any changes thereafter, will require a change fee of $100.  Guests are only able to call the resort and or DVC and verify their name on reservations, 7-10 days prior to the check in date.  Rest assured, we have this particular reservation held in the Owner's name till it's time to assign the guest name to it. The guest must be over 21 years of age to check in at this Resort.  The Resort requires a credit card to place a hold for incidentals.  *There is a mandatory non-refundable $200 Resort fee that will be charged by the Resort 4-6 weeks prior to the check-in date. * Certain activities offered at the resort are available at an additional cost. "


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## paxsarah (Feb 2, 2020)

It seems just as likely to me that they copy/pasted their boilerplate language from their other DVC rentals (which certainly were exchanges, based on the undercutting prices) even if this one was not an exchange. I just don’t see how DVC deposits a 2BR Aulani 11 months in advance for Christmas. I’m not up on DVC rentals, but the price listed here seems more in line with a points rental than the bargain basement prices they list the exchanges for.


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## DannyTS (Feb 2, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> It seems just as likely to me that they copy/pasted their boilerplate language from their other DVC rentals (which certainly were exchanges, based on the undercutting prices) even if this one was not an exchange. I just don’t see how DVC deposits a 2BR Aulani 11 months in advance for Christmas. I’m not up on DVC rentals, but the price listed here seems more in line with a points rental than the bargain basement prices they list the exchanges for.


I thought about that but not a likely scenario precisely given this is a 8000 dollars listing so they must have paid attention to all the details. 
Concerning RCI deposits, I have seen other astonishing surprises in both II and RCI so I would not judge based on that solely


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## CPNY (Feb 2, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> I thought about that but not a likely scenario precisely given this is a 8000 dollars listing so they must have paid attention to all the details.
> Concerning RCI deposits, I have seen other astonishing surprises in both II and RCI so I would not judge based on that solely


Sounds like RCI is behind this and are making money on the rentals rather than a small exchange fee paid by owners.


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## Dean (Feb 2, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Sounds like RCI is behind this and are making money on the rentals rather than a small exchange fee paid by owners.


Doubtful but RCI does have rental options that DVC has agreed to.


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## CPNY (Feb 2, 2020)

Dean said:


> Doubtful but RCI does have rental options that DVC has agreed to.


So you can rent from RCI instead of using exchange? That’s great but that’s just for RCI owners. eBay opens it up to people outside of the RCI System. Someone on the inside is filtering the weeks out for rentals. I’ve seen it with harborside at Atlantis. One agent posting 40 in demand weeks that owners of the resort can’t even get at 8 months out. It seems suspect to me


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 2, 2020)

I want a week at Aulani through exchange, but I never get those, even though we are Club Wyndham.  I should enter an ongoing search for Aulani.  My kids and grandkids would love to stay there sometime.  If I could get a 2 bedroom, that would be very worthy of the airfare.  Then I could add Marriott to the trip.  Such luck!  I am totally jealous of this person. 

This Vacation Strategy is apparently working.


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## Dean (Feb 2, 2020)

CPNY said:


> So you can rent from RCI instead of using exchange? That’s great but that’s just for RCI owners. eBay opens it up to people outside of the RCI System. Someone on the inside is filtering the weeks out for rentals. I’ve seen it with harborside at Atlantis. One agent posting 40 in demand weeks that owners of the resort can’t even get at 8 months out. It seems suspect to me


We're talking about the options and none of us have an idea whether it applies in this case.  I personal doubt this is the case here.  But RCI can rent weeks they get in some cases, rumor is that's a large part of the reason that DVC moved from II to RCI, so DVD/DVCMC could dispose of some of their yearly inventory.  None of us are privy to the contract itself as RCI and DVD consider that proprietary information.  So can RCI rent, absolutely, I don't know if they do so outside of RCI membership but I've been told in the past that they do but again, I truly don't know that info.  As for whether DVC members can get those reservations, that's irrelevant as RCI could only get time that DVD, DVCMC or DVC members have put with them either as a week or by points.  They could potentially use the home resort of the points and get time back to 11 months out and in the past they have done so.  Now whether RCI is renting weeks they shouldn't, weeks that should go to the RCI membership (but not DVC members) is a question and in the past, some have been convinced they have done so.


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## littlestar (Feb 2, 2020)

I think that Aulani rental might be a DVC member renting out their Aulani points. That language about the fee is probably just copied from something old.  Maybe this company pays DVC members for high value 11 month reservations.


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## ilenekm (Feb 8, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> this is in the ad:
> "....The Resort requires a credit card to place a hold for incidentals. *There is a mandatory non-refundable $200 Resort fee that will be charged by the Resort 4-6 weeks prior to the check-in date. * Certain activities offered at the resort are available at an additional cost. "
> 
> View attachment 16989



I have used RCI with my Wyndham points to get DVC. The "resort fee" which I believe was $195 last time is charged by Disney when you are there. This is in addition to the RCI exchange fee you pay when you get the reservation. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## chriskre (Feb 11, 2020)

Disney could go thru the Vero System on Ebay but apparently they don't use it.
Not sure why but to use Vero they don't even have to prove anything, just send
the cease and desist letters and ebay will shut down the account.
I've gotten Veros from sellers (not timeshare related, I sell jewelry) but
DVC could make their life difficult if they wanted to.
Here's the Vero process:




__





						Verified Rights Owner Program | Seller Center
					

Protect your intellectual property and ensure your listings are compliant with eBay's Verified Rights Owner Program.




					pages.ebay.com


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