# Forget about Wyndham VIP Upgrades



## regatta333 (Jul 18, 2008)

Because VIP upgrades can only be accomplished through a vacation counselor, it has made it effectively impossible to get one.  Anyone reserving online will always have the advantage because of the wait times for the call center at 8am.

I've been looking every day to upgrade a 3 night reservation 1BD I have on 7/31.  This was the only size unit available when I made my reservation.  Online this morning, I saw a 2BD.  I was previously told to tag this reservation (the system allows you to hold onto it for 15 minutes without completing the transaction) so I did this.   When I got a VC on the line, she said I would have to release the unit and she would not be able to see it for another 15-20 minutes.  She said I would need to do that and call back.  Of course, when I called back, I was waiting for 25 minutes, during which time I saw the reservation come back into the system.  I tried to tag it again, but got a message saying the online system was down.  Kept trying to do this numerous times with the same result, until finally I no longer saw the 2BD--someone else snagged it.

Anyone contemplating spending any money to become a VIP owner should beware.  VIP benefits have been seriously devalued.  Practically speaking, unless you can get a VC on the phone within a couple minutes of the time the phone lines open, you can forget about it.


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 18, 2008)

I just did an upgrade without much trouble - maybe I got lucky.
I booked a 1 bedroom within 60 days for 35% off then got it upgraded to a 2 bedroom within 45 days.  I called around 12:30 PM EST was on hold for 5 minutes or less and everything went smooth.  I ended up with a 30K plus 2 bedroom for 10,400 points.

There have been other times that I have seen it online and it was gone by time my hold was over but oh well.

I will say if I call at exactly 8:00 AM my hold time is extremely minimal - just a couple of minutes.


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## timeos2 (Jul 18, 2008)

*VIP is a crock at the price you have to pay (its almost a crock for free!)*

While you can make a case that a few of the extremely limited perks offered by the sales driven "VIP" can have a value (the points discounts for example) the cost to get to VIP is so outrageous and the perks have no guarantee - here today gone or raised to a new "VIP" designation, thus requiring MORE expensive points purchases to maintain - gone tomorrow to be basically worthless. Certainly not worth the tens (!!) of thousands of dollars you have to pay to get "VIP" over just buying standard, base value FSP Points resale.   

While the "standard" owner can, as you point out, get the unit first they will pay the cost in points while, if you can as a VIP, get it you pay a little less in points the upfront costs are so out of whack that it would take decades to even get close to breakeven in value for the purchase $$. Remember all other fees, assessments, etc are exactly the same for both owners. The only difference is the upfront cost and paying too much with the hope of an eventual return IF the perks hold up over 10+ years and you can actually get them simply isn't a good plan.  Made less so by the ever changing nature of VIP and the history of requiring more purchases of overpriced developer points to maintain the limited perks available.  Best ignored and maximize your value by buying low and getting enough points to do what you want.


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## regatta333 (Jul 18, 2008)

*Why would anyone even contemplate Presidential Reserve?*

Given how little regard Wyndham has for its "so-called" VIP owners, why would anyone even contemplate Presidential Reserve?  On the surface, you'd expect the VIP owners to be a great target market for this new type of Wyndham ownership.  I'd have to stay that from the standpoint of the type of service and perks I'd expect from buying into this type of program, Wyndham has a long way to go.

When you see how poorly they treat their owners and how they are constantly devaluing the benefits, how can they expect to sell anyone on the perks of Presidential Reserve?

My husband and I have been to several Wyndham properties in the past several months and have experienced a real push to get us to attend the "Owner's Update", but have refused.  I know they will be pushing this new program.  Wonder if they are getting many takers from existing owners who have seen progressive devaluations in their ownerships?


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## Robnsunny (Jul 18, 2008)

Upgrades in Prime time have always been chancy at most resorts although there are exceptions. The online booking may help some but Wyndham also has a lot more owners than several years ago and they are all trying to go to the same high demand places at the same high demand time.

My policy has always been to reserve what I want for our primary vacations as early as possible. If a discount or upgrade becomes available, I'll jump on it, but I don't count on it. I almost always use discounts and upgrades for off season travel and it's a wonderful point saver.


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 18, 2008)

I find it highly irresponsible of you to state that VIP is almost a crock for free.

In no way shape or form am I suggesting that someone buy retail, but if you have there is benefit to being a VIP owner and I am sorry that you are unable to see that.

We have gotten free upgrades at least 5 times in the less than 2 years we have owned.  Therefore based on that alone it is absolutely not a crock for free.

Additionally on at least that many occasions we have gotten the 35% off the points and when you combine the 2 we have gotten things like 2 weeknights in a 2 bedroom for 10,400 points something like 1/3 of what they normally go for.

Absolutely you can buy more than 3 times the points resale for less than retail, but your argument is just plain wrong and misleading.  VIP BENEFITS ARE NOT ALMOST A CROCK FOR FREE!

I am sorry you are too closed minded to see that and it's obviously your way or the highway, but you are wrong.

If one car is better than the other does that mean the other is worthless?  No, it's just not as good of a value.

Obviously a lot of people make the mistake of buying retail, but once you do it may make sense to buy a little more to maintain VIP and certainly if you are VIP already one should not be swayed into thinking VIP benefits are worthless and a crock and stop using them.

There are also benefits that you can't put a tangible value on.  Our vacation time is very important and it's really nice to know that when we go to Bonnet Creak next year we will be staying in the new tower.  Additionally there are resorts like the one in Rhode Island where not all the 2 bedrooms have a washer and dryer.  We can specify the new building and be sure to have one equiped with such as long as we called in the request early enough.

No that's not worth 10X the price or whatever number you are going to qoute me but is it a crock, is it worthless?  I think not!

It's fine to have your opinion, but even if you are an expert it is too closed minded to state something so obviously flawed as "Even for free VIP is almost a crock".  yet in so many threads you repeat that over and over like it is a fact.

So how can you argue that these benefits are a crock for free?
25-50% off points booked within 60 days depending on VIP level
Free upgrades within 30-60 days depending on VIP level
ability to specify unit.

Again I am going to repeat myself so there is no confusion.  I am not stating that it is worth buying retail versus resale unless you have a ton of money and need something like the benefit of Presidential Reserve, but if you are a VIP owner or considering an additional retail purchase to get to VIP status these benefits are real and do have value.


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## regatta333 (Jul 18, 2008)

Robnsunny said:


> My policy has always been to reserve what I want for our primary vacations as early as possible. If a discount or upgrade becomes available, I'll jump on it, but I don't count on it. I almost always use discounts and upgrades for off season travel and it's a wonderful point saver.



Generally speaking, I do this as well.  I had booked the desired units for 2 nights, but then some of the people in my family wanted to stay 3 nights.  The only unit available was a 1BD, which is not ideal for 4 people, but still doable.  Ever since, I have been getting online and phoning in every morning at 8am, trying to get something larger.  If I had seen this 2BD outside the 15 day window, I would have grabbed it and cancelled my other reservation, but I would now be in a position of forfeiting the points for my original reservation.

It's just very frustrating, because you are really at a disadvantage by having to wait for a VC to complete the transaction.  Every single day that I've called, always exactly at 8, I have had a wait of at least 5 minutes and usually more than 10.


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 18, 2008)

Robnsunny said:


> Upgrades in Prime time have always been chancy at most resorts although there are exceptions. The online booking may help some but Wyndham also has a lot more owners than several years ago and they are all trying to go to the same high demand places at the same high demand time.
> 
> My policy has always been to reserve what I want for our primary vacations as early as possible. If a discount or upgrade becomes available, I'll jump on it, but I don't count on it. I almost always use discounts and upgrades for off season travel and it's a wonderful point saver.



100% agreed and sorry if anyone thought I was saying otherwise.  I have gotten lucky and got some upgrades during prime time but not always.  In fact i just missed out on upgrading a Kingsgate reservation with the same problem as the original poster.  I was so psyched because I saw there was a single 1 bedroom and a 2 bedroom available for the same period as our reservation for a friend and was going to rebook the 1 now at 35% off and get the free upgrade to the 2 bedroom but by time we were off hold it was gone.  As luck would have it I am usually walking from the bus to my office (20 minute walk) at 8:00 and have plenty of cell phone minutes so I don't mind calling each day at 8 to check for upgrades.


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## timeos2 (Jul 18, 2008)

*I can see the sales weasels laughing about VIP*



NJCOBRA10tha said:


> I find it highly irresponsible of you to state that VIP is almost a crock for free.
> 
> In no way shape or form am I suggesting that someone buy retail, but if you have there is benefit to being a VIP owner and I am sorry that you are unable to see that.
> 
> We have gotten free upgrades at least 5 times in the less than 2 years we have owned.  Therefore based on that alone it is absolutely not a crock for free..



Well, its never free so that eliminates that possibility. While I feel sorry for those that bought in to developer pricing I really have to cringe when I hear of the so called benefits of VIP as a reason for doing so. The cost/benefit just isn't there no matter how you twist the math.  

If you have VIP by all means use it in any possible way to increase the value of your FSP ownership. I hate to tell you that if you add up what you "saved" with every possible benefit vs what you paid upfront for things they can (and have) changed or taken away you have a very, very long payback period to ever come close to breaking even. But for anyone considering buying into the great Wyndham system it is, sorry, a crock to pay the extra - remember we're not talking a few hundred dollars but literally tens of thousands over resale - to obtain the VIP "status". Far better to simply buy points at the best price and use them.  The VIP was, is and will always be hype for overpriced developer based sales with very little to no meat on its bones.


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 18, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Well, its never free so that eliminates that possibility. While I feel sorry for those that bought in to developer pricing I really have to cringe when I hear of the so called benefits of VIP as a reason for doing so. The cost/benefit just isn't there no matter how you twist the math.
> 
> If you have VIP by all means use it in any possible way to increase the value of your FSP ownership. I hate to tell you that if you add up what you "saved" with every possible benefit vs what you paid upfront for things they can (and have) changed or taken away you have a very, very long payback period to ever come close to breaking even. But for anyone considering buying into the great Wyndham system it is, sorry, a crock to pay the extra - remember we're not talking a few hundred dollars but literally tens of thousands over resale - to obtain the VIP "status". Far better to simply buy points at the best price and use them.  The VIP was, is and will always be hype for overpriced developer based sales with very little to no meat on its bones.



Nothing different than what I said.  I said it could be 10x more to buy retail.  I do appreciate how you state it as opposed to "even for free it is practically a crock".


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## regatta333 (Jul 18, 2008)

*Mostly satisfied with Wyndham, but could be much better*

This is somewhat off the topic of the original post, but wanted to elaborate on some of the other Wyndham issues that have made the ownership experience more frustrating.  While overall, I am still glad we are in the Wyndham system, which has great flexibility and great resort locations, I feel like they make sudden rule changes that put some/most owners at a real disadvantage.

The changes to the VIP program are only a minor part of it.  We used to be able to deposit weeks from our home resorts into RCI during the ARP period.  This is no longer allowed and no real explanation has been provided for why this was changed. I see many postings on the sightings board for trade opportunities that pop up after midnight, but since I no longer have the ability to search or book through RCI, these are effectively out of reach for me.  I can only pick from what is available during the RCI hours of operation, when I can be assisted by a VC.  

The trading power of the Wyndham generic deposits used to be pretty good; now it is in the tank.  I think the highest trading power is assigned when deposits are made at least 12 months out.  I think Wyndham seldom deposits that far in advance.  Most deposits are now made inside of 10 months and many at 3-6 months.  Although many owners have complained, Wyndham emphatically denies that there has been any degradation in trading power.

When the ability to ARP our home resorts was first rescinded, I sent several emails to Wyndham and even got a call from someone in their Owner Relations on this topic.  They claimes that this was done in a effort to prevent owner from cherry-picking the best weeks and thereby making them unavailable for use by other owners.  When I pointed out that even when this was allowed, it was always at the discretion of the resort manager, so they always had the ability to prevent the deposit of a 4th of July week, for example, she had no response to this.  She even admitted that very few owners actually took advantage of this, so why prevent them from doing it?

Now, the people who were taking advantage of this are still making these reservations, but exchanging through the independents.  So what did they gain by doing this--less revenue for their affiliated exchange company.

Net result in my own situation:
We are taking more vacations by using points instead of exchanging;
We are doing much more exchanging through the independents and very
little through RCI;
With the points we will not use, we are making prime week reservations and renting them.


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## lprstn (Jul 19, 2008)

Ok, maybe I am on the wrong post but...

I had 6 reservations this year alone in which I got VIP "free" upgrades... so I don't think I am lucky, just persistent.

Also, I love Wyndam, and own other TS but I must say I use it more than I do the others and rave about it as it fits my family's travel needs. 

Is it perfect? NO..and neither am I...
Do I get the vacations I want every year? YES...I do...
Would I purchase it at retail again? YES, if I didn't know about resale, I definately would..

So I disagree with the post about not getting your upgrades, I and my other "VIP" friends don't have problems getting their upgrades when they are available....sorry you have not had any luck.

- However when you search frequently, see a larger unit, call Customer Service and request it...sometimes it takes a little time, but they  can get it for you.


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## Charlie D. (Jul 20, 2008)

Excuse me but I am a proud VIP owner!!  I didn’t “need it” but I “wanted it” so the money was put out to get it. There are no doubt many Wyndham/Fairfield VIP owners as well as other vacation plan premium owners who check out this forum.  I will not be put on some guilt trip for, heaven forbid, buying retail and getting VIP status.  I saved my entire working career to have a nice retirement.  I like getting the VIP treatment when checking in.  I like the discounts.  

Let’s see now – if I hadn’t spent the extra $18K to get VIP status I could have bought a Lexus instead of a Chrysler – I could have bought a larger home than my wife and I need/wanted – I could have saved it, but you see, I had been saving for years and I was ready to “blow” some money.  I have read the anti-VIP comments for weeks now and have held back on a reply but I couldn’t this time.  I don’t want to get cross-ways with any of the moderators because they do an important job but if my wife and I thought VIP was worth the extra money – so be it. Most of the anti-retail/VIP posters will say that generally resale is a better way to go than retail.  But to talk down to VIP owners or even potential VIP owners is not cool.  To say VIP is a crock and that everyone in Wyndham sales are weasels is crock in and of itself.  Maybe an underlying bitterness or agenda the rest of us don’t know about?


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## jercal10 (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm on a couple of TS boards, and there seems to be several "FLAMERS" who seem to hate TS  companies. Let them blow off steam, it must be a good outlet for them.


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## Caius (Jul 20, 2008)

Charlie D. said:


> Excuse me but I am a proud VIP owner!!  I didn’t “need it” but I “wanted it” so the money was put out to get it.



Charlie,
There are many happy VIP owners throughout all of the Wyndham discussion boards, and it's good to have you put in your experiences.  I also agree some of the anti-resale posts are harsher than they need to be, so when I leave such posts I try to keep to the facts and let the person posing the question make up their own mind.

But the fact is, 99% of the people posting this question are potential buyers, or people who made an impulse buy at a presentation in the last couple of days then started doing their research afterwards.  I think many of these people will do better to save their $18k or whatever to get into the system, use it for a while, then decide if, like you, they want the VIP status and want to put out the money to get it.  Informing new/potential owners of the cost savings of resale and Wyndham's history of decreasing/eliminating VIP benefits is an important service of these forums.


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## timeos2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Caius said:


> Charlie,
> There are many happy VIP owners throughout all of the Wyndham discussion boards, and it's good to have you put in your experiences.  I also agree some of the anti-resale posts are harsher than they need to be, so when I leave such posts I try to keep to the facts and let the person posing the question make up their own mind.
> 
> But the fact is, 99% of the people posting this question are potential buyers, or people who made an impulse buy at a presentation in the last couple of days then started doing their research afterwards.  I think many of these people will do better to save their $18k or whatever to get into the system, use it for a while, then decide if, like you, they want the VIP status and want to put out the money to get it.  Informing new/potential owners of the cost savings of resale and Wyndham's history of decreasing/eliminating VIP benefits is an important service of these forums.



Exactly. If the limited benefits are worth $18,000 (or whatever) to the buyer so what? Enjoy. 

But if a new buyer or an existing owner wants to know how to get the best value from a FSP purchase then resale, non-VIP is the answer. Simply based on cost/benefit. Sure, its the Buick/Mercury choice but if there were an $18,000 difference from them to the Cadillac/Lincoln how many Caddies or Towncars would be sold? For a thousand or two more they sell. The spread is simply too much with Wyndham for most people.   With Wyndham retail vs resale is more the difference between a Focus and a Lamborghini in price - while the benefits are with either one or without a moon roof. You're getting 99% of the value with non-VIP and the differential is completely out of line. Until Wyndham does something to correct that spread, rather than foster it as they have been, resale remains the only sound financial choice. VIP will remain a costly luxury.


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## regatta333 (Jul 20, 2008)

My point in making the original post remains.  Now that Wyndham has a ususable online system for making reservations, it puts VIP owners at a disadvantage in terms of being able to get a free upgrade since it cannot be accomplished without contacting a VC.

Are Wyndham owners not at a disadvantage when having to deal with generic deposits to RCI?  Of course they are, because they cannot search and complete transactions online.

As it stands now, VIP owners wanting to get upgrades have to stand in line behind anyone who can grab an available unit online before they can reach a VC on the phone and provide their account number and verify their zip code and email address and explain what they want accomplished.  

I realize that upgrades are not guaranteed, but I feel that owners should have equal access to what IS available on a first-come first-served basis. This was not the case here. Although the upgrade was available and I got to it first, I was not able to book it because of the Wyndham procedure for how the upgrades must be done (over the phone).  A more equitable solution would be to allow the person who sees the upgrade online to book it, then call in and have the VC cancel the original reservation and restore the difference in points for your having booked the upgrade as a new reservation. This is essentially what they do when they complete an upgrade over the phone anyway.


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## Robnsunny (Jul 20, 2008)

That's a good suggestion and perhaps you should address it to member services.

We've seen the website come a long way in the last 2 years. These improvements and the ease of making regular reservations are the reason that a problem is perceived. I think programming the VIP perks is on the list for future improvements although it could be a long time if ever before we see it.


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## Jya-Ning (Jul 20, 2008)

regatta333 said:


> A more equitable solution would be to allow the person who sees the upgrade online to book it, then call in and have the VC cancel the original reservation and restore the difference in points for your having booked the upgrade as a new reservation. This is essentially what they do when they complete an upgrade over the phone anyway.



Is that what VC doing today?  Or they need a smaller size available also?  I thought they need smaller size there also.  And I believe your originally reservation will be first put into the return pool for everyone to grab first.

Jya-Ning


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## regatta333 (Jul 20, 2008)

Jya-Ning said:


> Is that what VC doing today?  Or they need a smaller size available also?  I thought they need smaller size there also.  And I believe your originally reservation will be first put into the return pool for everyone to grab first.
> 
> Jya-Ning



I am referring to doing an upgrade once you have already booked a smaller room.  What the VC does today is to book the larger unit first, then releases the original unit, then contacts member services to have the difference in points restored to the account.  That is why owners who upgrade always end up having cancelled points in their account.


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## regatta333 (Jul 20, 2008)

Robnsunny said:


> That's a good suggestion and perhaps you should address it to member services.
> 
> We've seen the website come a long way in the last 2 years. These improvements and the ease of making regular reservations are the reason that a problem is perceived. I think programming the VIP perks is on the list for future improvements although it could be a long time if ever before we see it.



I did suggest this to member services, but they maintain that this is not the procedure for doing upgrades, that they must be accomplished over the phone with a VC.


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 20, 2008)

I am really happy to see other VIP owners join in and speak up and squash this "VIP benefits are practically a crock even for free".

Here here!


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 21, 2008)

regatta333 said:


> I was previously told to tag this reservation (the system allows you to hold onto it for 15 minutes without completing the transaction) so I did this.   When I got a VC on the line, she said I would have to release the unit and she would not be able to see it for another 15-20 minutes.



That is the worst thing to do, as then you have to wait until the inventory shows back up in the system.  That takes way too long to get the inventory back.  I would only suggest tagging and booking the inventory IF the counselor says they CAN'T see the inventory (I have had this situation happen).  Tagging is to be avoided as it removes the unit from inventory period.  So now no one, including the VC, is able to obtain the booking for you.  There is situations where tagging could be used, but obtaining an upgrade is not one of them.  Sorry you were misinformed.

VIP upgrades are a pain.  But still available to obtain in some situations.  I hope that Wyndham will deliver an online way to upgrade instead of having to call the VC.


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## Divot (Jul 21, 2008)

*Pres Reserve Angle*



regatta333 said:


> Given how little regard Wyndham has for its "so-called" VIP owners, why would anyone even contemplate Presidential Reserve?  On the surface, you'd expect the VIP owners to be a great target market for this new type of Wyndham ownership.  I'd have to stay that from the standpoint of the type of service and perks I'd expect from buying into this type of program, Wyndham has a long way to go.
> 
> When you see how poorly they treat their owners and how they are constantly devaluing the benefits, how can they expect to sell anyone on the perks of Presidential Reserve?
> 
> My husband and I have been to several Wyndham properties in the past several months and have experienced a real push to get us to attend the "Owner's Update", but have refused.  I know they will be pushing this new program.  Wonder if they are getting many takers from existing owners who have seen progressive devaluations in their ownerships?



I agree that the pres reserve looks like some sales hype -  but having just completed an owners update I see an attractive angle. First and foremost, I also own 3 fractional properties (Hyatt Aspen, Ritz Carlton Club Aspen and Marriott Grand Residence London). Why??? Location, location, location and the cost to own a vacation home in these locations is out of my league. I also travel and entertain my clients at these premier resorts.  If I were to buy at the Ritz or Four Seasons in San Francisco, it becomes a very expensive proposition. HUGE maintenance fees as well! The ONLY reason I'm considering pres reserve in San Francisco is the location and the exchange possibilities through the Registry Collection. For a minimal investment (compared to my other fractionals) I can continue to stay in high-end digs and use my other fractionals (resales) for rental. My parents left me their Fairfield timeshare and while initially I was a big sceptic of timeshare, Wyndham offers a decent product, decent service and low maintenance fees (compared to fractionals). When you get your hands on the  Registry exchange points chart (and $250 fee) it beats what I now own....for exchange purposes. IF it works...a big if so I'll see what other fractional owners have to say about the proposition and my angle.

Divot


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 22, 2008)

FYI Just booked 2 more reservations for August 08 and was able to do both an instant upgrade and get 35% off the points so these reservations were about 50% of the points they list for.


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## timeos2 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Holy cow. I saved almost $285 dollars for only $18,000 upfront! Where do I sign?*



NJCOBRA10tha said:


> FYI Just booked 2 more reservations for August 08 and was able to do both an instant upgrade and get 35% off the points so these reservations were about 50% of the points they list for.



Thats great. A last minute reservation and upgrade at 50% off. So let me do the math. If that saved you 75,000 points then at the $.003 cost per point for my maintenance fees in 2008 I would have saved $283.  How long would it take - if I got those savings every single time (can't do that in reality as usually it's tough to wait until only a few weeks before the trip to lock up the unit/resort) to get back the $18,000 in upfront money to be VIP? Only 64 very last minute reservations!  And I'm at break even! But even that is being generous as at 60 days or less non-VIP can get points discounts too as that is really distressed inventory by then. So really the break even number may be in the hundreds. Assuming the rules/"benefits" don't change (as they can and do). Hmmm, only 100+ reservations. Let me see, in 15 years we've made maybe 30. So in other 40 years or so I'd be golden!

VIP, at the cost differential Wyndham has created, simply doesn't make financial sense compared to the unbelievable value of simple resale FSP Points. If you must have it to realize it is a luxury purchase.  Not that luxury is a bad thing but it usually comes at a steep price.  Wyndham VIP is no exception to that rule.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 22, 2008)

I just booked a unit this morning, got my 50% VIP discount and the free upgrade from a 1 BR unit to the 3 BR Presidential Unit.

So about instead of 60,000 points I only used 11,750, so about 80% discount over the non-discounted point requirement.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 22, 2008)

OK OK Guys, for all you posters that are saying that VIP is not worth the price.  Fine we agree. But if you already have VIP and want to use it, I think that was the focus on this thread.  Can you obtain VIP perks given that you must call a VC to gain it.

This thread was NOT whether VIP was worth it.  All of us probably agree that obtaining VIP at developer prices is not worth it.  Can we get back to the discussion at hand, and that was if people who already have VIP are able to obtain upgrades.


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## timeos2 (Jul 22, 2008)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I just booked a unit this morning, got my 50% VIP discount and the free upgrade from a 1 BR unit to the 3 BR Presidential Unit.
> 
> So about instead of 60,000 points I only used 11,750, so about 80% discount over the non-discounted point requirement.



One last time (promise!) that is $144.75 in savings over using my non-VIP points for the 60,000 full shot. I do agree if you have VIP use it for everything you can get. But if you aren't VIP look very carefully before paying retail to become one. That's all that this thread seems to have become about. New buyers should look for the best value. And current owners really need to see what the benefits are compared to the cost.  Don't fall for the Weasel blather.


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## photosmike (Jul 22, 2008)

NJCOBRA10tha said:


> FYI Just booked 2 more reservations for August 08 and was able to do both an instant upgrade and get 35% off the points so these reservations were about 50% of the points they list for.



If you don't mind, which resort?


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 22, 2008)

Bonnet Creek and La Maison Belle (did I get that right?  The one in New Orleans).


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## NJCOBRA10tha (Jul 22, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Thats great. A last minute reservation and upgrade at 50% off. So let me do the math. If that saved you 75,000 points then at the $.003 cost per point for my maintenance fees in 2008 I would have saved $283.  How long would it take - if I got those savings every single time (can't do that in reality as usually it's tough to wait until only a few weeks before the trip to lock up the unit/resort) to get back the $18,000 in upfront money to be VIP? Only 64 very last minute reservations!  And I'm at break even! But even that is being generous as at 60 days or less non-VIP can get points discounts too as that is really distressed inventory by then. So really the break even number may be in the hundreds. Assuming the rules/"benefits" don't change (as they can and do). Hmmm, only 100+ reservations. Let me see, in 15 years we've made maybe 30. So in other 40 years or so I'd be golden!
> 
> VIP, at the cost differential Wyndham has created, simply doesn't make financial sense compared to the unbelievable value of simple resale FSP Points. If you must have it to realize it is a luxury purchase.  Not that luxury is a bad thing but it usually comes at a steep price.  Wyndham VIP is no exception to that rule.



I have no problem with anything you said.  These are tangible ones.  I do however put $5/1000 points as the value since if you run out that's what it costs to rent from Wyndham within 60 days and is the going rate here from other members.  You can't just buy a resale and expect to get to use the points immediately.

There are also intangible benefits that I stated before like specifying I want the new tower at Bonnet Creek or that I need a unit with a Washer and Dryer at Long Wharf.

Luxury item - definitely.
"Practically a crock even for free" definitely not!

I am happy that the haters reeled it in a little to accept the fact it is not a crock.  I was getting ready to leave the board forever because I couldn't stand that comment in practically every single thread. 

VIP is still generally not worth paying extra retail vs resale but a valuable item if you have it you should make use of it.

Thanks


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## joestein (Jul 22, 2008)

I would certainly accept VIP benefits for free, but I think anyone who would pay $18,000 extra for VIP benefits, when they know about resale,  has poor decision making skills.  Most people who are savers, don't just blow money for the hell of it, that is what makes them savers in the first place.

I would also like to challange that amount, as VIP is a minimum of 300,000 points (I think), and at 10 cents a point (retail varies, but I am using a number below retail to prove the point) 300,000 would cost $30,000.   Resale which is less than 1 cent a point would cost no more than $3,000.  A savings of $27,000, probably more as my retail price per point is low.  I guess it is possible that this a purchase from a long time ago, when retail was cheaper,  but from the description of the poster (they saw all the negative postings about VIP before we decided to buy), it seems more recent.

The only real benefit in my opinion is the ability to pick a unit.  Otherwise, everything is just a point savings, which can be offset by buying twice as many points on a resale basis, still much, much less than the original points at retail.


Plus, the way the stock price is ( I am sadly the owner of a few hundred shares), I wouldn't be suprised if VIP benfits are reduced as a cost cutting method. (Wyndham has to pay the trust for the benefits).

Joe


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 22, 2008)

*When The Moon Is In The 7th House .  .  .*




NJCOBRA10tha said:


> Luxury item - definitely.
> "Practically a crock even for free" definitely not!
> 
> I am happy that the haters reeled it in a little to accept the fact it is not a crock.  I was getting ready to leave the board forever because I couldn't stand that comment in practically every single thread.
> ...


I just love it when fellow TUG-BBS members bury the hatchet & live together in peace & harmony & understanding. 

Kumbaya. 

Shalom. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## joestein (Jul 22, 2008)

Just trying to spice up the boards a little!  I know my post is flaming, but so are the posts of the VIP proponets.   I just love that "Holy cow. I saved almost $285 dollars for only $18,000 upfront! Where do I sign? " message title.

Nothing like a VIP vs Resale thread to liven up the board (Except for the Like vs. Hate Disney threads of course).

Joe


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## jdb0822 (Jul 22, 2008)

Look, whats all the arguing about?

Its as simple as this:

VIP is worth the price cause the salesman said so.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

I also hear that VIP's get special seating at all owners updates, and if you're a VIP you get a 3-hour update rather than the measely 90-minute one the non-VIP's get.  

Here's my question, in the real world, VIP stands for Very Important Person, but in the World of Wyndham, the "I" stands for something else, but what?  :rofl:


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## lprstn (Jul 22, 2008)

Also, because I am a Very Important Person.(VIP)..I am special


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 22, 2008)

My upgrade was at LaCascada in San Antonio.

I did not pay retail pricing for my VIP, I received it before they changed all the rules, and I am grandfathered in. 4 Resales converted to points, 2 PICs and an small enough equity trade did the trick for me.

So I am happy enough with my Wyndham.


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## Jya-Ning (Jul 22, 2008)

Actually, a lot VIP that was constant on the internet has their purchase price / point no more than 30% of the retail price.  Some have it cheaper than my resale price.

To say it does not worth or not worth, I don't see any reason to argue.  It is a program intend to allow member to take advantage of flexibility.  So, if they have VIP, I don't see any reason why they need to argue if it is worth or not.

It may not worth the whole purchase from retail.  And most Wyndham salesman will find a way to close the gap of resale.  Since they are the only one that can give you VIP status.

Each one of us has to determine if based on our own travel pattern, does VIP mean anything, and if you want to pay the MF year in year out, and how much you want to pay to get this club.

If you can not find reason to join, don't joint.  But I don't believe once if you have that benefit, you will want to yield it without fight.

Jya-Ning


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