# Maui TS w/Hyatt Kaanapali Beach RC (3 more days to rescind)



## whathowmuch

Hi, new here. Glad I found this place though!!  Also stumbled onto Kal's Information Center (http://www.bywindkal.com/HVC.htm), another great resource.

Wife and I fell in love with Maui on our "honeymoon" and promised each other to go back as often as possible with the kids, so I dived in and bought.

Since this TS is so new, there is no resale market as of yet.  Possibly in a few years I suspect.  I paid $43K for a 1 BR / 1 BA direct ocean view, $1680 annual MF, fixed week, diamond season (just wanted to throw everything out there, sorry if TMI).  Also got a week at any RC resort free (some limitations) and 75K of Hyatt Gold points.

From reviewing the Marketplace, I think I can rent something similar for ~$2500.  Not much savings there I guess.  My intent is to at least go back every other year, possibly every year if I can find cheap flights from LAX to OGG for a family of four.  My kids are still very young, so I would think they're willing to go with us till around high school age or older which isn't for another 10 years or so.

I don't see much fixed week TS on Maui Kaanapali Beach so I can't evaluate true value of something similar.  Anyone with any leads on how I can compare what I paid now and what value it may be in a few years when some of these units hit the resale market?

OR should I just RESCIND and save my money??

TIA


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## Passepartout

Nice place, but expensive. And soon you'll need more than a 1 br. If you don't plan to use each year, and can rent without tying up a big pile of cash, why not. If you rescind, and study the resale market some, it wouldn't hurt. If it turns out to be a great deal, it will be available next week, month, year. But I suspect you'll find a nice resale, or higher end mainland TS that can exchange you into Maui at lower cost.

Jim


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## theo

whathowmuch said:


> ...should I just RESCIND and save my money??



It's your money and decision, but I'll just point out that a "sunk" $43k right up front, followed by hefty annual maintenance fees forever thereafter, would certainly get you a whole lot of rentals for a whole lot of years, scheduled (...or not, as circumstances sometimes dictate) at your family's convenience  --- keeping those upfront funds in your pocket or bank account (instead of in the developer's). 

I would rescind this purchase *yesterday*, personally, but YMMV.


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## ondeadlin

Rescind and buy resale.  It's actually pretty easy to trade into a great resort in Kaanapali Beach and if you're absolutely set on Hyatt, you'll be able to get in with a resale week.


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## Rent_Share

I remember sitting at the pool at Westin Kanapali North listening to two couples comparing their second week purchase. I was there on 4000 Worldmark Points( MF ~ $240 )Purchase Value ~ 1500 - 2400 resale + exchange fee, not brave enough to talk rescission face to face


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## LannyPC

whathowmuch said:


> Since this TS is so new, there is no resale market as of yet.  Possibly in a few years I suspect.  I paid $43K for a 1 BR / 1 BA direct ocean view, $1680 annual MF,...
> From reviewing the Marketplace, I think I can rent something similar for ~$2500.  Not much savings there I guess.



So do the math.  It possibly rents for $2500 (that could be negotiable) whereas the MFs are $1680 (and almost guaranteed to escalate each year).  That's a savings of $820 per year.  If you shell out $43,000 now, it will take you 52 years to recover that at $820 per year.  As Theo said, you can get some nice rentals for that much.

When TS sales people try to get you to amortize purchase costs claiming that, over the long run, you will save, one of many factors they "forget" to include is that you likely do not know what your life will be like 5, 10, 20 years down the road.  A fatal tragedy could occur.  Due to health reasons, your traveling might be limited/restricted.  People's goals and philosophies in life change so traveling might no longer be a priority.  A financial reversal might make traveling unaffordable.  You might be bored of Maui after a number of trips there, etc.

And since you say that this place is new and there are few resale options right now, I would give that a few years to change.  The $1680 (and escalating) MF might be to steep for someone.  An owner, due to reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph, will want out, etc.


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## whathowmuch

Thanks for all the inputs. 

TS was signed on 10/15.  In Hawaii,  there's a 7 day cool off period.  I won't get the package with instructions to rescind till 10/21 via fedex.  I'm cutting it close, but hopefully it'll go through.


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## Passepartout

whathowmuch said:


> Thanks for all the inputs.
> 
> TS was signed on 10/15.  In Hawaii,  there's a 7 day cool off period.  I won't get the package with instructions to rescind till 10/21 via fedex.  I'm cutting it close, but hopefully it'll go through.



I think that if you have the contract number, date, any other pertinent and identifying data, that you can pen a rescission letter, "I/We wish to rescind and cancel our purchase of contract xxxxxx, dated 10/xxx/2014 according to Hawaii law. Promotional materials to be returned under separate cover." Send it to corporate, not to the resort, if you can get the address. Send it certified USPS w/return receipt. I don't remember seeing the address here on TUG.

If you can find those bare minimums, get it off tomorrow. Even if not perfect, the above will show clear intention on your part to rescind. Then if the stuff you get from Hyatt is substantially different, you can still correct it.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Jim


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## ondeadlin

Agreed.  You need to send a letter and email now regardless of whether you have the package.


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## whathowmuch

Passepartout said:


> I think that if you have the contract number, date, any other pertinent and identifying data, that you can pen a rescission letter, "I/We wish to rescind and cancel our purchase of contract xxxxxx, dated 10/xxx/2014 according to Hawaii law. Promotional materials to be returned under separate cover." Send it to corporate, not to the resort, if you can get the address. Send it certified USPS w/return receipt. I don't remember seeing the address here on TUG.
> 
> If you can find those bare minimums, get it off tomorrow. Even if not perfect, the above will show clear intention on your part to rescind. Then if the stuff you get from Hyatt is substantially different, you can still correct it.
> 
> That's what I'd do anyway.
> 
> Jim



Unfortunately, I didn't record any of that stuff down.  Anyone have information on Hyatt TS corporate number?


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## theo

whathowmuch said:


> TS was signed on 10/15.  In Hawaii,  there's a 7 day cool off period.  I won't get the package with instructions to rescind till 10/21 via fedex.  I'm cutting it close, but hopefully it'll go through.



Specific written instructions regarding your rescission rights under applicable state law, the procedure to follow to rescind and the correct address to utilize *should* have been provided to you right at the time of contract execution. Accordingly, I'm entirely unclear why you are now having to chase down or wait for that information after that contract execution. Personally, I would *not* wait around for "further instructions" to (...maybe) be "coming soon via FedEx". The clock keeps ticking while you "wait". If you end up producing redundant written and signed rescission communications, so what? No harm, no foul. After all, there is $43k+ at stake here.  

Frankly, I'd prepare and sign a letter of rescission *today* and get it postmarked and mailed off (certified mail, save the date stamped receipt) *pronto*! 
The clock is ticking here; I would *not* wait for something to (...maybe) arrive by FedEx. The fact that you were reportedly not provided with (legally required) rescission info at the time of purchase would already make me very dubious (...at best) about this developer's "sales team" personnel veracity and / or trustworthiness.

You have legal rights here, but they will expire very soon. I wouldn't be "hoping" and / or "waiting" --- I'd be taking *action*. If you don't meet the rescission deadline, you will be permanently out of luck (...and also out $43k+) and you will be a new owner,  like it or not. If you choose to snooze, you'll surely lose.
Your call...


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## whathowmuch

theo said:


> Specific written instructions regarding your rescission rights under applicable state law, the procedure to follow to rescind and the correct address to utilize *should* have been provided to you right at the time of contract execution. Accordingly, I'm entirely unclear why you are now having to chase down or wait for that information after that contract execution. Personally, I would *not* wait around for "further instructions" to (...maybe) be "coming soon via FedEx". The clock keeps ticking while you "wait". If you end up producing redundant written and signed rescission communications, so what? No harm, no foul. After all, there is $43k+ at stake here.
> 
> Frankly, I'd prepare and sign a letter of rescission *today* and get it postmarked and mailed off (certified mail, save the date stamped receipt) *pronto*!
> The clock is ticking here; I would *not* wait for something to (...maybe) arrive by FedEx. The fact that you were reportedly not provided with (legally required) rescission info at the time of purchase would already make me very dubious (...at best) about this developer's "sales team" personnel veracity and / or trustworthiness.
> 
> You have legal rights here, but they will expire very soon. I wouldn't be "hoping" and / or "waiting" --- I'd be taking *action*. If you don't meet the rescission deadline, you will be permanently out of luck (...and also out $43k+) and you will be a new owner,  like it or not. If you choose to snooze, you'll surely lose.
> Your call...



Understood.

I "received" the documentation and signed a stack of papers.  Issue is that all of the documentation was put in a "owner's binder" and mailed to my home address when I was in Maui as it was too big to bring along on the plane.  Without any of the documentation, I have nothing to work off of.  I'll hunt down Hyatt corporate and see if I can get anywhere with them.


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## theo

*Tick tock...*



whathowmuch said:


> I "received" the documentation and signed a stack of papers.  Issue is that all of the documentation was put in a "owner's binder" and mailed to my home address when I was in Maui as it was too big to bring along on the plane.  Without any of the documentation, I have nothing to work off of.  I'll hunt down Hyatt corporate and see if I can get anywhere with them.



Ahhh.....I had mistakenly interpreted that you were not provided with rescission information and instructions, as is required by law.  
It now seems that you were indeed provided with said rescission materials at the time of contract execution, but subsequently shipped them home.  

My apologies to the unknown Hyatt sales people whose integrity I may have questioned prematurely, erroneously assuming that they had shirked their legal responsibility to provide you with rescission rights notification and instructions, in writing, at the time of contract execution. 

In any case, the clock keeps ticking  --- with or without your "shipped" rescission materials.


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## TUGBrian

some great advice already given...dont feel like you are alone here...its such a common scenario we even wrote an advice article about it:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/did_i_get_a_good_deal_on_my_new_timeshare.htm


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## tschwa2

theo said:


> Ahh...I somehow mistakenly interpreted that you were not provided with rescission information and instructions, as is required by law.
> It now seems that you were indeed provided with said rescission materials at the time of contract execution, but subsequently chose to ship them home...
> 
> My apologies to the unknown Hyatt sales people whose integrity I may have prematurely questioned, erroneously assuming that they had somehow averted their legal responsibility to provide you written rescission rights notification and instructions, in writing, right at the time of contract execution.
> 
> In any case, your deadline clock keeps on a tickin'...



Even though its not an integrity issue or a failure to comply with the law issue, they know what they are doing.  It may seem like they are being extra helpful offering to mail the info to you at home but like the infamous cd in the pocket of the Westgate materials, Hyatt knows that without the materials readily available during the rescission period, it becomes a whole lot more difficult to exercise the right or even read the contract completely and more thoroughly than when signing.  And by the time the materials arrive at home it is too late and the one and only opportunity is gone.


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## theo

tschwa2 said:


> Even though its not an integrity issue or a failure to comply with the law issue, they know what they are doing.  It may seem like they are being extra helpful offering to mail the info to you at home but like the infamous cd in the pocket of the Westgate materials, Hyatt knows that without the materials readily available during the rescission period, it becomes a whole lot more difficult to exercise the right or even read the contract completely and more thoroughly than when signing.  And by the time the materials arrive at home it is too late and the one and only opportunity is gone.



You *may* be correct, but it is frankly not at all clear to me from the OP's own wording whether that decision and action to "ship" all of the "too big to bring on the plane" contract-related  materials home was the salespeople's doing at all; the "shipment" *may* well have been *initiated solely* *by the OP* and not by the sales people.


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## whathowmuch

Sorry that I wasn't clear.  My mind is racing with many thoughts right now....

The contract was signed on 10/15/14.  I requested that it be shipped to my house.  It wasn't shipped till 10/17/14.  Regardless, FedEx tracking shows delivery by 10/21/14 8PM.  Per the Hawaii law, I'm hoping I have till 10/22/14 to send the RESCIND letter.

I found a FAQ on Hawaii State's website which states that I have 7 days from signing OR from receipt of "disclosure statement".  Still, I will send out when I receive the information.  

Thank you to everyone that replied.

Reference:  http://hawaii.gov/dcca/pvl/faqs/timeshare_faq.pdf


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## theo

whathowmuch said:


> The contract was signed on 10/15/14.  I requested that it be shipped to my house.  It wasn't shipped till 10/17/14.  Regardless, FedEx tracking shows delivery by 10/21/14 8PM.  Per the Hawaii law, I'm hoping I have till 10/22/14 to send the RESCIND letter.
> 
> I found a FAQ on Hawaii State's website which states that I have 7 days from signing OR from receipt of "disclosure statement".  Still, I will send out when I receive the information.
> 
> Reference:  http://hawaii.gov/dcca/pvl/faqs/timeshare_faq.pdf



You are correct that if you signed the contract in HI on 10/15, then 10/22 is indeed the *latest* possible date for your letter of rescission to be *postmarked* by USPS in order to successfully meet the rescission time frame specified under Hawaii law. 

Btw, rescission times frames (and state AG's or other regulators) addresses, phone numbers and web sites for most of the 50 states in the U.S. (including Hawaii) can actually be found right here on TUG; there is a "sticky" specifically addressing and linking to an article with details on individual state rescissions / cancellations. 
The pertinent "sticky" is located among a half-dozen other "stickies" found (each one is highlighted in red) directly above the "Buying, Selling & Renting" forum.

Make very sure that you send your rescission letter by *certified mail* (_*not*_ by FedEx, UPS, fax or email) in order to obtain (and save) the USPS counter-issued (and hand-date-stamped) receipt for future reference. It does not really matter when they actually receive your letter, but it matters a whole lot when it gets *postmarked*.


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## whathowmuch

Just an update:

I went home to pick up the FedEX package earlier than expected.  I was constantly checking for an early arrival and noticed that it was left at my doorstep, per FedEX tracking information by 12 noon.

I then went ahead and scoured through all the documents.  I remember someone at TUG mention that they will "HIDE" it.  That person is absolutely correct.  I found two documents that discussed about how to rescind.  They were in separate places throughout the 100+ pages of paper.  One was a blank "template" to cancel the timeshare, but no data was entered such as Name, Address, etc.... The other document had that data but it was hidden as an "addendum" reference for CA residents.  There were no one single document that had all the pertinent data.  From the information on the cancellation contract, I indeed had till Oct 22 at midnight to send the cancellation request as the contract was signed on Oct 15.  I typed up a letter to this effect and noted that the cancellation package included the front page of the purchase contract, credit card payment slip as reference, CA resident addendum reference, and "Notice of Mutual Right of Cancellation."

Long story short, I was able to send everything out on 10/21 via CERTIFIED MAIL with DELIVERY CONFIRMATION.  I'll be contacting my credit card company to put a hold/dispute on the Hyatt timeshare down payment charge.

Hoping everything works out.  For future reference, the address I used is:

Maui Timeshare Ventures, LLC
200 Nohea Kai Drive
Lahaina, HI  96761

Disclaimer:  This may or may not be the same address for you, please verify yourself.


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## taffy19

If you have any doubt, you need to rescind because you only have one chance to do this but you did so you were very lucky to find TUG in time.

Do your research and ask questions here before you buy something else.


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## whathowmuch

Question:

I have 15 business days to return the sales/owners material.  Do I have to send back the copies of the contracts and paperwork with our signature?  They should have a copy also.  

The "Notice of Mutual Right of Cancellation" does state that I must return the sales contract along with all the material provided.  

Just wondering why they want the copies of the contract back?  I will have to photo copy each page just so that I retain a copy myself.


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## vacationhopeful

Considering how much MONEY you saved ... just copy the contract and say to yourself as you press the COPY button: $100 for the first page; $200 for the 2nd page, and so forth ... You saved a bunch of your hard earn dollars ... Be Happy. So Very Happy.


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## whathowmuch

Update:

Got a voice mail yesterday from the salesperson stating that they received the rescission letter and wanted to discuss the "steps involved to get it processed."

After reading through all the posts here, I know not to return the call and let my letter do the talking.

THANKS AGAIN!


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## whathowmuch

Update:

A credit posted on my credit card yesterday for the FULL down payment amount.  Kind of surprising as I have yet to send in all the SALES/MARKETING material yet.

THANKS AGAIN AND AGAIN!


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## theo

*Good job...*



whathowmuch said:


> Update:
> 
> A credit posted on my credit card yesterday for the FULL down payment amount.  Kind of surprising as I have yet to send in all the SALES/MARKETING material yet.
> 
> THANKS AGAIN AND AGAIN!



Well done and congratulations. 

Some developers don't seem to particulalry care whether or not their "new owner" / marketing razzamatazz materials ever actually get returned to them. 
Others (...Westgate comes immediately to mind with their $50 charge) use it as one last opportunity to squeeze *something* out of a disappearing buyer. 
One developer, whose identity I just can't recall in my current (...i.e., first cup of morning coffee) brain state, actually ups that ante to $$250.


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## Ron98GT

*Hawaii Revised Statute 514-E, Timeshares*

http://cca.hawaii.gov/pvl/files/2013/08/hrs_pvl_514e.pdf


Simple description of Cancellation (514E-8, Mutual Right to Cancel):

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/hawaii-timeshare-foreclosure-right-cancel-laws.html


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## whathowmuch

Update (you guys must be tired of these by now ):

Got a letter from the title company acknowledging the TS cancellation a few days ago.  Wasn't expecting it, but it came.

Think the thread can be closed now.


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## GregT

whathowmuch said:


> Update (you guys must be tired of these by now ):
> 
> Got a letter from the title company acknowledging the TS cancellation a few days ago.  Wasn't expecting it, but it came.
> 
> Think the thread can be closed now.



I think you should look hard at the Marriott next door -- another lovely property (as is the Hyatt).  The Hyatt has a terrific lanai, but the Marriott is widely available via resale.

Good luck and congrats on the rescind!

Best,

Greg


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