# The use of Maint. fees to hold T.S. Owners Hostage



## acgonzalez (May 24, 2012)

I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.  

Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

When you signed the contract you agreed to pay the maintenance fees as long as you owned the resort, however there is nothing that requires your heirs to do so.  That is a common lie that that timeshare scammers tell owners to get them to fork over big bucks to get rid of their timeshares.  There is a legal process through which your heirs can refuse any property which they don't wish to inherit.  No one has to inherit property that they don't want.

My recommendation is that you give your timeshare away before it gets to that point.  More info.:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509


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## ronparise (May 24, 2012)

acgonzalez said:


> I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.
> 
> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



I would bet that your deed says something like this:

An undivided 1.923% interest in unit # xxx of Your resort located at 123 Resort Ave. Ocean Town Your State USA. Together with the right to use and occupy a unit during  week # yyy................all as provided in the Condominium Declaration and Timeshare Plan creating and establishing Your Resort.....

That Condo Declaration and Timeshare Plan is where its written that all owners have to pay to maintain the property


Your point however is well taken and has been the subject of long and tortured discussions here on TUG

Life happens: we get old, our finances change, our travel habits change and we should be able to sell this stuff...or at least give it away, but there is no organized, efficient or effective resale marketplace for "used" timeshares

You are on your own...just watch out for the sharks feeding in these waters...taking advantage of desperate folks


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## theo (May 24, 2012)

*My $0.02 worth...*



acgonzalez said:


> I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.
> 
> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



With all due respect, your energies would be more productively directed in actively trying to get rid of your unwanted timeshare ownership. Bemoaning the undeniable legal obligation of the annual maintenance fees which are associated with any timeshare ownership won't make your legal obligations magically disappear. You certainly are not "being held hostage"; this is a legal obligation into which you once entered voluntarily.

You can offer to give away the unwanted ownership(s) for free right here on TUG in the "Bargain Deals" section. If you first have to become a member to do so, it would be $15 well spent. In any case, good luck.


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## csxjohn (May 24, 2012)

*Also*



acgonzalez said:


> I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.
> 
> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



In addition to the above advise, see what others are selling similar units to yours for.  You may have something someone will be willing to buy.  Look around before you panic.

Also, check out these two articles, talk with a lawyer in your state and make your heirs aware of this.  At least it can stop with you.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Time-Shares-1843/2011/2/Timeshare-deed-perpetuity.htm

http://www.timesharetrap.com/how-to-refuse-a-timeshare-inheritance.html

On the bright side, I put two of my units on the bargain deal forum, one a desirable unit and the other not so much so, and had a request for one the next day.  That deed transfered in less than a month using Legal Timeshare Transfers.

The other is still listed on the same forum and in the classified section of TUG.

I'm batting 500 right now which is wonderful.


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## AwayWeGo (May 24, 2012)

*Professional Timeshare Sellers Don't Always Fully Explain How It Works.*




acgonzalez said:


> Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?


It's happening because that's how condominium ownership works, including timeshare condominiums.  It's spelled out in the condo documents in exquisite detail. 

To stop it, you sell or give away or deed back your ownership. 

None of those are automatic or quick & easy.  

Deedbacks require permission & cooperation in advance.

Selling means finding a willing buyer.  

Giveaway means finding a willing recipient. 

It would be nice if the fast-talking timeshare sellers made it all clear before the full-freight buyers pass the point of no return.  

As it is, disclosure of the pertinent details is done by printing everything in there with all the rest of the tedious fine print -- the kind of boring reading material that's easily overlooked amid all the razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2012)

Are you telling me your kids never travel?  They don't go anywhere?  Not Orlando, or Williamsburg, or Branson, or New Orleans, or anywhere other than where they live?  Your kids and grandkids can use that timeshare to go to Hawaii.  

All three of our kids travel quite a bit, and they will be happy to have all of our timeshares, when Rick and I are gone.  We have owned at one of our resorts for 31 years and still own and use the week.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 24, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> All three of our kids travel quite a bit, and they will be happy to have all of our timeshares, when Rick and I are gone.  We have owned at one of our resorts for 31 years and still own and use the week.



Cindy, let me ask you because you are fairly young...Right now the MF's at SBP are around $1133, which while on the high side, is still the high side of reasonable...assuming a 3% raise in MF's a year(close to the inflation rate, not counting Owners walking away) in 30 years when you pass these on to your kids, the MF will be $2,750.09 and no longer a reasonable rate...And i'm sure most Timeshare will raise an equal percentage

Would you still want to pass on your (Thirteen? Wow!) ownership's to your kids when the MF's Could be over $30,000(average $2,307 an ownership) a year total?


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## presley (May 24, 2012)

acgonzalez said:


> I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.
> 
> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



It helps to think of your TS as a vacation home.  If you purchased a vacation home, you would have a lot of extra expenses to keep the home up, whether you used it or not.  Timeshares are the same.  If you are no longer using it, you can offer to give it away right here on TUG.  If you do still use it, you are just paying to keep the place up, which you'd have to with any type of major purchase.


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

If the increase in maintenance fees goes no higher than the inflation rate, then everything will have risen 3% a year, and in adjusted dollars, it will cost no  more to own a TS in 30 years than it does now.  

Unfortunately, Starwood does NOT have a history of 3% increases.  It's when the maintenance fee increase is 2-6 times the inflation rate that you get into trouble, and only time will tell.  If Starwood continues at the rates they have for the last 10 years - it won't be long before no one wants a Starwood timeshare.

I don't think Cindy's situation is typical, because her children are very knowledgeable and they own a rental business, so they very well could use 16 more weeks of timeshare. 

An attorney on TUG posted that she is going to leave her unwanted timeshares to their respective resorts - that's what I am going to do too.  It's clean, legal, inexpensive for the resort, and it doesn't involve any middle men who are just trying to take advantage of everyone.

If I have extra timeshares that I don't need while I'm still around to do something about it, I will give them away.


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## ronparise (May 24, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> If the increase in maintenance fees goes no higher than the inflation rate, then everything will have risen 3% a year, and in adjusted dollars, it will cost no  more to own a TS in 30 years than it does now.
> 
> Unfortunately, Starwood does NOT have a history of 3% increases.  It's when the maintenance fee increase is 2-6 times the inflation rate that you get into trouble, and only time will tell.  If Starwood continues at the rates they have for the last 10 years - it won't be long before no one wants a Starwood timeshare.
> 
> ...



_An attorney on TUG posted that she is going to leave her unwanted timeshares to their respective resorts - that's what I am going to do too.  It's clean, legal, inexpensive for the resort, and it doesn't involve any middle men who are just trying to take advantage of everyone._

This strategy goes against almost everything Ive read here on TUG. I  thought the problem was the resorts and their hoas, didnt want these things back.. If they refuse to take a deed back when you are alive, why would they change their mind when you are dead.  

or put another way

If they will take it when you are dead, why not when you are alive "clean, legal, inexpensive for the resort, and it doesn't involve any middle men who are just trying to take advantage of everyone"


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## ronparise (May 24, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Are you telling me your kids never travel?  They don't go anywhere?  Not Orlando, or Williamsburg, or Branson, or New Orleans, or anywhere other than where they live?  Your kids and grandkids can use that timeshare to go to Hawaii.
> 
> All three of our kids travel quite a bit, and they will be happy to have all of our timeshares, when Rick and I are gone.  We have owned at one of our resorts for 31 years and still own and use the week.



[Unnecessary remark deleted] The op clearly stated that they are older and cant travel anymore. They feel that they were had and now they are trapped

Why would they do the same thing to their children?

You can not take your experience and success and make the leap that all of us are having the same experience and success


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

ronparise said:


> _An attorney on TUG posted that she is going to leave her unwanted timeshares to their respective resorts - that's what I am going to do too.  It's clean, legal, inexpensive for the resort, and it doesn't involve any middle men who are just trying to take advantage of everyone._
> 
> This strategy goes against almost everything Ive read here on TUG. I  thought the problem was the resorts and their hoas, didnt want these things back.. If they refuse to take a deed back when you are alive, why would they change their mind when you are dead.
> 
> ...



Ron - Let's say the BOD legally refuses the nice clean inheritance - what's their next step?  Are they then going to turn around and pay money to claim it as abandoned property so they can get the deed back, get an owner in it, and collect the maintenance fees?  It's possible, but that would be more costly than just accepting it.  Did you read the 2 articles posted above about refusing an inheritance?  Does it make sense that the resort will refuse it, when they will just have to turn around and take it back?


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2012)

[Response to unnecessary remark deleted.]



> They feel that they were had and now they are trapped


I hate this attitude.  How long have they been "had?"  Let's not go back 30 years ago and blame the developers for taking advantage of this poor couple, who are now stuck with MF's.  Please. 

Here is what I know about some of our family members:

BIL and SIL bought a timeshare at the same time we bought, around fall of 1981.  They pay the fees every year and rarely go up and use the darned thing.  They own an early summer week that gets about 22 TPU's.  Their daughter, SIL, and their kids, plus their best friends and their kids, wanted to go to Orlando, so SIL booked them two hotel rooms for a week, $69 per night each room + taxes.  She called me to tell me of the bargain she got on the hotel room.  It was a Howard Johnson's.  (She doesn't even use Hotwire?).  

I check for the same week and tell her if she wouldn't have let her II membership expire the first year they owned, she could have gotten the kids a Marriott or Vistana Villages for that week.  Her fees are $470.  I also told her Platinum Interchange had a 3 bedroom at Cypress Pointe for that week. 

Another BIL bought a timeshare at a resort in Breckenridge, and it's in the season where they get usage in prime season some years, some years it's lower season. (Rockridge.)  They don't use it at all in the off years, yet they pay the fees.  I showed them that instead of paying for a hotel in San Francisco, they could use their off--season week to get Canterbury in SF for  September.  So they joined RCI and now have a week coming up this September.  

The thing is people travel.  They just do.  And for someone to assume their kids cannot make use of a timeshare, well that is likely a wrong assumption.  TUG is all about timeshare.  It's not about telling people how to get out.  I am sick of the threads that go on and on about how to get out.  USE IT.  You liked it once, so find the value in it and use it however you can.  There are free exchange companies, including TPMaui, who can get you to Maui in the off-season very easily.


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## csxjohn (May 24, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Ron - Let's say the BOD legally refuses the nice clean inheritance - what's their next step?  Are they then going to turn around and pay money to claim it as abandoned property so they can get the deed back, get an owner in it, and collect the maintenance fees?  It's possible, but that would be more costly than just accepting it.



And the other alternative of just having your heirs refuse to accept the TS would cause the same trouble and expenses for the HOA.

I mentioned it in another post and I believe that willing it to the HOA would be best for everyone involved.  Assuming the kids don't want it.

If your HOA won't take it back when you're alive, it's an attempt to force you to keep paying MF with the threat of foreclosure and the bad credit rating that may cause you.

Once you die, you're the one in control, not them.


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## Timeshare Von (May 24, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> <<snipped>> An attorney on TUG posted that she is going to leave her unwanted timeshares to their respective resorts - that's what I am going to do too.  It's clean, legal, inexpensive for the resort, and it doesn't involve any middle men who are just trying to take advantage of everyone.



After reading the more recent posts in this thread, I think we'll leave our timeshares to Ron in our will.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2012)

> I mentioned it in another post and I believe that willing it to the HOA would be best for everyone involved.



Maybe this is a good way out, except Denise has already said the resort may refuse it.  

We don't own any timeshares the kids haven't seen (except Sheraton Desert Oasis).  They think of them as an asset, even though they very much know how little I paid for each and every one.  

Ride, we own a lot more than 13 weeks.  You might be shocked, but maybe not.  :rofl:


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Maybe this is a good way out, except Denise has already said the resort may refuse it.
> 
> We don't own any timeshares the kids haven't seen (except Sheraton Desert Oasis).  They think of them as an asset, even though they very much know how little I paid for each and every one.
> 
> Ride, we own a lot more than 13 weeks.  You might be shocked, but maybe not.  :rofl:



Cindy - It is not the same as a deedback from a living person.  IF the BOD refuses the inheritance, and so do the other heirs, then that puts the BOD in the position of having to pay money to turn around and reclaim it, which doesn't make any sense.  An effective BOD will realize it is cheaper and cleaner to accept the inheritance, than to let it go back to the heirs who will refuse it, and then it will be more expensive for them to take it back so it can be resold.

Of course I consider this a last resort.  The ideal solution is for the owner to dispose of unwanted timeshares legally and ethically, before they die...


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## csxjohn (May 24, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The thing is people travel.  They just do.  And for someone to assume their kids cannot make use of a timeshare, well that is likely a wrong assumption.  TUG is all about timeshare.  It's not about telling people how to get out.  I am sick of the threads that go on and on about how to get out.  USE IT.  You liked it once, so find the value in it and use it however you can.  There are free exchange companies, including TPMaui, who can get you to Maui in the off-season very easily.



There you go with the unfounded generalizations again.  

Not all people travel, they just don't!  I'd guess most people on this forum travel. I don't know the situations that the OPs children are in and neither do you.  They may very well be in the group that can't or don't travel.  

Not all people that travel use timeshares either, so you are way off by assuming that their children travel and could make use of the time shares.

You say in one breath that TUG is all about timeshares and the next you say it's not for people trying to get out of time shares.  If that's the case why do we have all the classified ads trying to sell timeshares?

If you're so sick of reading the threads about people trying to get out, why do you read them?

You go on to assume that everything in all the TS owners lives are the same as when the TSs were purchased.  You tell us to use it anyway we can.

Not everyone can do this,  things change, stuff happens.


[unnecessary comment deleted]


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## Passepartout (May 24, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> The ideal solution is for the owner to dispose of unwanted timeshares legally and ethically, before they die...



Ideal, yes, but most of us want to use our TSs as long as we can, and then have them magically disappear when we are no longer able to. Unfortunately most of us don't get the luxury of knowing when we are going to die. If we did, it would sure make retirement and vacation and timeshare ownership and long term care planning a helluva lot easier.

Jim


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2012)

I was trying to make suggestions to help them use their timeshare, however they need to do it. (Removed my rude comment.) 

Sorry, John.  I appreciate a good debate and welcome it, but I still will bow out of this thread.


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Ideal, yes, but most of us want to use our TSs as long as we can, and then have them magically disappear when we are no longer able to. Unfortunately most of us don't get the luxury of knowing when we are going to die. If we did, it would sure make retirement and vacation and timeshare ownership and long term care planning a helluva lot easier.
> 
> Jim



I agree - and that is exactly why timeshare owners need to have a back up plan.


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## csxjohn (May 24, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I was trying to make suggestions to help them use their timeshare, however they need to do it.  What have you said that is positive and helpful?  Nothing, John, nothing.



So you don't think post #5 and post #15 were helpful in anyway to the OP?

That's OK if you don't think so, but I think they were helpful, that's why I posted them.


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

Let's get back on track here - the OP is new to TUG and obviously doesn't have the experience or knowledge to know what their options are.  Let's focus on that please...


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## ronparise (May 24, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> After reading the more recent posts in this thread, I think we'll leave our timeshares to Ron in our will.



Include cash enough for three years mf 3 years and i  will take it. But only if you are dying to do it


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## ronparise (May 24, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Cindy - It is not the same as a deedback from a living person.  IF the BOD refuses the inheritance, and so do the other heirs, then that puts the BOD in the position of having to pay money to turn around and reclaim it, which doesn't make any sense.  An effective BOD will realize it is cheaper and cleaner to accept the inheritance, than to let it go back to the heirs who will refuse it, and then it will be more expensive for them to take it back so it can be resold.
> 
> Of course I consider this a last resort.  The ideal solution is for the owner to dispose of unwanted timeshares legally and ethically, before they die...



It is exactly the same as a deedback from a living person...If  a poa refuses it either before or after I die, they will have  expenses, ...And I come to the same conclusion as you...it dosent make sense


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

Back on topic, please folks...


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2012)

ronparise said:


> It is exactly the same as a deedback from a living person...If  a poa refuses it either before or after I die, they will have  expenses, ...And I come to the same conclusion as you...it dosent make sense



No it isn't the same - If a living person does a deedback and the resort refuses it, the deed comes back to the owner and the living owner continues to be 100% responsible for it.

If a dead owner leaves it to the resort, the deed comes back to the estate, where the other heirs can refuse it, and then the deed is in limbo.


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## csxjohn (May 24, 2012)

acgonzalez said:


> I guess all of you who are Timeshare Owners know about Maintenance Fees.  What I'm trying to find out is if there is anyone out there who can tell me where is it written in the Contract that we can be held Liable to pay for the Maint. Fees for the rest of our lifes including our Chilren's lives and etc.  All I remember hearing when we bought it was what a great investment we were making buying this Timeshare.
> 
> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



Please tell us what and where you own and we might be able to be more specific in the ways we might be able to help you. 

Send me a private message if you'd like and we can talk about what you might want to talk about.


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## MommaBear (May 24, 2012)

acgonzalez said:


> Now that I'm much older and we no longer can travel and our children are all gone it appears to me a lot of us have been had and we are trapped in this Annual Fee scheme. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and what can be done to stop it?



If you feel trapped by your TS, maybe it is time to divest yourself of it. There are many threads on this board on how to do exactly that. See the  post  by AwayWeGo. 

There are many costs in my life over which I have no control: income taxes, real estate taxes, gas, oil, food, healthcare. The difference between these and my timeshare costs is that I have to have these things to live and TSs are a luxury. 

If you are looking for concrete ways to get rid of this burden, ask for help. If you are just looking to vent, vent away!


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Please tell us what and where you own and we might be able to be more specific in the ways we might be able to help you.
> 
> Send me a private message if you'd like and we can talk about what you might want to talk about.



That would be good info to know.


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