# How much do you value each point?



## Jason245 (Jul 16, 2015)

I went through some rough math of the value of stays if I booked for cash via alternative sources to try and assess "how much" I am saving via TS vs no TS ownership. 

My math comes in at each point being worth around $0.54 cents based on where I stayed/plan to stay this year. 

That being said, I did target my stays during Gold/Silver Season in order to try and get Maximum value. 

I am wondering what others value their annual point allotment at and how they come up with their value estimate (I understand that the value of vacations are priceless to some, but I have that flaw of wanting to put hard numbers to things).


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## presley (Jul 16, 2015)

I just divide my MFs by the # of annual points. 

How did you get .54? Were you factoring in other costs such as purchase, reservation fee, etc?


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## Jason245 (Jul 16, 2015)

presley said:


> I just divide my MFs by the # of annual points.
> 
> How did you get .54? Were you factoring in other costs such as purchase, reservation fee, etc?



That math gives me the Cost per point (more accuratly, [MF + HGVC membership + Any reservation fees]/number of annual points). 

I am more looking at trying to figure out a good "Value/Point" Number. 

For example, 1 Night in Miami in a similar accomidation (1 BR) would cost in  rent  ~$400/Night + Tax (based on my research through numerous alternative sources). The points cost is 680 for a gold Friday night. 

$430 (The Est cost of the room after tax)/680 = a value per point of ~$0.63. 

Obviously the Value received per point in a place like Miami and Hawaii (where similar accomodations are significantly more expensive) is greater than say Orlando or Vegas (where comparable rentals are more reasonably priced). 

While this is very subjective, it helps me to assess the "total savings" that being an owner provides. 

For example, If you were getting $0.60 cents/point in value and each point was costing you ~$0.30 after fees, you could say that you are "saving" 50% by owning vs renting and quantify your annual savings. 

I came up with my 54 cents a point valuation based on  3 reserved stays for this year in Miami, Marco and Orlando. While Miami and Marco have higher pricing/point valuations, Orlando scews much lower given the over abundance of rental options. 

I doubt anyone gets/or has gotten as anal as me, but at the same time, I was wondering if anyone has determined their own "value/point".


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jul 16, 2015)

There are a number of ways to calculate this, and i have never really decided which is best.    I created a spreadsheet and tried to account for the purchase price of the week, years of usage, and and any estimated resale of the week at the end.   That gave me a number but i am not too sure how accurate it is, as its hard to predict what timeshare week will be worth in say 10 years or whatever time you assume you will use it..

Presley's approach is nice and simple.. 

For tracking, i try to check Hilton.com and see what they charge for the same room when i book a timeshare...  That gives some idea of what the room would rent for with similar advance notice..


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## hurnik (Jul 16, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I went through some rough math of the value of stays if I booked for cash via alternative sources to try and assess "how much" I am saving via TS vs no TS ownership.
> 
> My math comes in at each point being worth around $0.54 cents based on where I stayed/plan to stay this year.
> 
> ...



I use the points/annual MF (and I mean the entire MF, not just the taxes).  I believe mine comes out to about $0.165/point.

If I want to stay in Orlando, 3400 is a 1 BR.  Plus the $59 or whatever reservation fee.  I figure a week in a nice "resort" with kitchen/etc. is well worth the $621 I'm paying for it.  

If I can get into the Hilton W57, I usually get 2 nights in the "studio".  I believe points for me would be 1100 or thereabouts, plus the $75 cleaning fee and the reservation.  (depends on the 2 nights).  $316.50 for 2 nights in a nice hotel like that is well worth it (I've stayed in more expensive places that weren't as nice in NYC).

When I exchange, I can book a 2400 point Vegas 1 BR, deposit with SFX, and upgrade to a 2 BR at the Grand Luxxe Riviera Maya for about $850 total.  Given that those rooms usually go for about $1600-2300 on redweek, I'm getting a heck of a steal.

I figure a "decent" hotel (Homewood Suites) with kitchen/living room is going to cost more than $100/night, which is about what I would "average" my HGVC 1 BR week (Hawaii and other places are different).


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## Ty1on (Jul 16, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> That math gives me the Cost per point (more accuratly, [MF + HGVC membership + Any reservation fees]/number of annual points).
> 
> I am more looking at trying to figure out a good "Value/Point" Number.
> 
> ...



I don't think it's subjective at all.  I think you are comparing your out of pocket costs to use the points vs alternative rent cost.


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## itradehilton (Jul 16, 2015)

For me I look at how much money I paid for the timeshare plus all fees each year. I keep a notebook with a running list of costs. Then I write down all of my stays and how much it would cost to rent the same accomodations. After ten years I broke even. Now I look at it as if the reservations I have cost less then then what it would cost to rent then I am happy. I figure my timeshare will have no vaule at the end, even though it will have some. My goal was not to make money but to enjoy travel.


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## onenotesamba (Jul 16, 2015)

We haven't yet bought HGVC, but we're making a similar calculation when we try to figure out how many points we'd get/use, and what the savings would be compared to staying in the same room, if we were to book it as a hotel room through Hilton.com.

One of the things that makes it difficult for us, since we're not already owners, is trying to get an accurate read on what we could expect for our annual "all-in" cost.  Putting aside the resale purchase price (which I could pro-rate, I suppose, but over what period of time?), from the listings I've seen, and even from the MF thread sticky at the top of this page, it's hard to tell which resale listings include taxes in their figures, and which include club dues, and... well, I just feel like when I'm trying to figure out how much I'd be out of pocket each year for, oh, say, 7000 points at a particular resort, I wonder if I'm actually taking into account all of the expenses of ownership, or whether I'm leaving something significant out of the equation.  

Plus that, I'm not really a "mathlete."


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 16, 2015)

*Points are Valued at the Vacation Value they Buy*



Jason245 said:


> I went through some rough math of the value of stays if I booked for cash via alternative sources to try and assess "how much" I am saving via TS vs no TS ownership.
> 
> My math comes in at each point being worth around $0.54 cents based on where I stayed/plan to stay this year.
> 
> ...



I value points by the Vacation Value they buy.  If a one bedroom costs 4800 points for a week and the local room cost is $200/night which is $1400/week then the points are worth $1400/4800 or $.29 each.  The maintenance fees that you pay is the cost of the points, not what they are worth.


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## vacationbear (Jul 17, 2015)

Just like presley I also use the MF/point formula.
And I couldn't agree more with every word from itradehilton!

For me if means (using round numbers and intentionally ignoring club- and reservation fees, nightly hotel tax, etc):
Kings Land: $1600/12600 pts: 0.13s/pt
Lagoon Tower: $1500/8400 pts: 0.17$/pt

What does it mean: nothing!
Both TS are 2bd. We prefer two bd but could possibly get by with a 1bd.

I also compare the MF (say for the intergalactic standard TS week) with what I would have to pay via Travelocity or Hilton.com.

Now here comes the clincher: if we take the 2bd week I would have to book 2 rooms via Hilton.com- and I would still not get the full kitchen and dining room! For a lesser accommodation I would have to pay twice as much.
What does this mean: a lot! There has been a previous discussion in which it was argued- and I subscribe to that math!- that a TS can safe you three to five times the annual MF!
I works for LT and KL in our situation.

Calculated in reverse: every one week in our home resort will save us between $4000 and $6000, depending on what you plan for a nice LT room.

Case in point: a $400 per night LT room x 2 x 7 nights = $5600 - $1500 (MF) = $4100 savings (almost 3x of MF).

Booking costs and nightly taxes are mere noise in this rudimentary calculation. 

Last step: $21000 purchase cost / $4100 savings p.a. results in a break even at (about) year 5.


Again, the above only applies if you prefer and book a 2bd apartment in a high priced area. 

For KL it could be: $600/ night for 2bd x 7 = $4200 -$1600 = $ 2600 savings; $17000/$2600 =  6.5 years

Our 2013/2014 HHV vacations were the best we ever had! What is that worth?
I see a TS as a catalyst for nice travels and superior accommodations. Once we are old, cant move, cant hear, cant...    we will "sell" it to the lowest bidder and buy a comfy coffin instead. 
This is not a traditional real estate transaction with long term price appreciation...


I rest my case  

Aloha


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## Ty1on (Jul 17, 2015)

vacationbear said:


> Just like presley I also use the MF/point formula.
> And I couldn't agree more with every word from itradehilton!
> 
> For me if means (using round numbers and intentionally ignoring club- and reservation fees, nightly hotel tax, etc):
> ...



You should also factor in the cost difference of renting a 2BR from an owner instead of just replacing the 2BR with 2 hotel rooms.  "What is the least I would have to pay to rent similar accommodations if I didn't own"


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## mrsmusic (Jul 17, 2015)

Add all that up - whichever numbers you prefer - and then tell yourself "I wouldn't go near as often if I didn't prepay the stays with my timeshare"  and therein lies the best part of owning timeshares. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JIMinNC (Jul 17, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> You should also factor in the cost difference of renting a 2BR from an owner instead of just replacing the 2BR with 2 hotel rooms.  "What is the least I would have to pay to rent similar accommodations if I didn't own"



You should only do this IF you are someone who would ever consider renting direct from an owner. We have never been particularly comfortable doing direct rentals, so we always use the prevailing rate for an online booking of similar accommodations. Since HGVC, Marriott, and others often allow cash rentals at their timeshare properties through their online hotel booking sites, those comparisons become easy to make. Renting from an owner is a meaningless comparison _for us_. That's not how we book travel.

We don't currently own HGVC, but have stayed at several HGVC properties on RCI exchanges using a timeshare we sold last fall. I used Hilton.com to "value" what it would have cost us to book those accommodations - Sea World, I-Drive, and Waikoloa Kohala Suites. We'll be back at Waikoloa for a week next summer.


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## vacationbear (Jul 17, 2015)

mrsmusic said:


> Add all that up - whichever numbers you prefer - and then tell yourself "I wouldn't go near as often if I didn't prepay the stays with my timeshare"  and therein lies the best part of owning timeshares.



Very true!
And we would be perfectly satisfied if, after converting unused HGVC points to HH points, we get the MF back in equivalent hotel stays (Hilton Kaui comes to mind...).


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## alexadeparis (Jul 17, 2015)

With any of the points systems I own, or even doing exchanges for that matter, I usually will assign a value per bedroom of $125 / night. So if I have a 2 bedroom unit for five nights, as an example (($125x2) x 5) = $1,250.  I therefore expect the points currency equivalent to cost me LESS THAN $1,250, no matter which of my points systems I use.

For points systems, I add up ALL fees, MF, property tax, exchange fee, etc and divide it by the points allocation for the year, then multiply by points used. So if my costs were $3,000 and total points were 6,000, we have 50 cents a point. If I used 2,400 points, I used $1200 for that stay, so I am under my preferred limit. If I used 2,500 points I break even, and if it costs more points than that, it's not the best use for me. 

Now there are exceptions to my rule. I would go over that amount IF it was a dream destination. But $125 a bedroom is my usual threshold. It used to be $100 per, but rising MF have taken their toll over the years.


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## MattnTricia (Jul 18, 2015)

Nothing complicated on my end. 

When I don't use my points I typically rent them out. 

I average about .30 per point that I rent vs the ~.11 I pay in maintenance fees per point every year. 

THus I value my points at .30.


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 19, 2015)

*I agree with this reasoning and example*



mattnday said:


> Nothing complicated on my end.
> 
> When I don't use my points I typically rent them out.
> 
> ...



I agree with your reasoning and example of how you value your HGVClub timeshare points.  The example I used came out to $0.29 per point.  That is pretty close with the same reasoning.


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## hurnik (Jul 20, 2015)

mattnday said:


> Nothing complicated on my end.
> 
> When I don't use my points I typically rent them out.
> 
> ...



Is that with HGVC?  If so, which package/location do you own at that only has $0.11/point with MF fees?


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## chrono88 (Jul 21, 2015)

Kingsland phase 1 third floor 2 bedroom units are worth 14000 points for MF of $1660. One of the Scotland affiliates worth 7000 points has MF of £464, which may be an even better MF/points ratio, if the exchange rate is favorable.


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## hurnik (Jul 21, 2015)

chrono88 said:


> Kingsland phase 1 third floor 2 bedroom units are worth 14000 points for MF of $1660. One of the Scotland affiliates worth 7000 points has MF of £464, which may be an even better MF/points ratio, if the exchange rate is favorable.



Thank you very much!!


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## MattnTricia (Jul 29, 2015)

Coylumbridge is still coming in at about $700-800 per unit depending on the lodge. That is where a majority of our points are owned.


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## fernow (Jul 31, 2015)

*Lots of ways to value*

Interesting thread.  I am new to TUG and joined because I am considering adding HGVC "points" on the resale market.

Valuing the points seems to depend on your intent.  How much value do I get each time I use points I already own vs what should I pay for each point?

Yearly fee per point is also critical for the purchase decision.

For purchasing,  am looking at it this way...

I can rent a comp 2 bdr for $250 + cleaning fee from VRBO.  I want a good deal so I set my goal as nightly cost of $200.  I am older.  I hope for 30 good but plan on 10 good so use 10 years as the amortization.    Where we like to stay, the points per night vary from 1000 to 1100.  I use 1100 for my calculations.  Some units are more pts/nt but then VRBO comps would be higher too.  Spreadsheet helps me vary the parameters.

So, IF my yearly fee is $0.12/pt and I pay $0.63/pt, my average nightly cost will be $200 over 10 years. 

Every $0.01/pt change in the yearly changes the amount you can pay per point by $0.12

Will I be able to find a resale deal that meets my goals?  We shall see.


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