# World's worst renter



## OutSkiing (Jan 7, 2018)

I must be the world's worst renter .. have never had luck with renting out timeshare weeks.

I've very successfully rented physical property in the Midwestern town where I live for years but never have luck with timeshare weeks.  Recently, we thought we stumbled on a good thing worth renting .. a 3 bedroom presidential at Bonnet Creek the week of January 28th popped up 2 months ago so we snagged it.  But alas I just had to cancel my ads and cancel the reservation because we're coming up on the 15 day cancelation period without it rented.  Perhaps a 3 BR presidential does not fetch any more interest than the 3 BR deluxe.

I know it's a little harder not being able to slash the price with cancel/rebook anymore but thought we might be able to still just beat break even.  I started at about 24% over MF cost and then kept slashing price down to 10% over cost .. only had 2 nibbles and no actual renter.

Advertised on Tug2 and on Craigslist for Orlando area. Craigslist ad was comparable to the dozen or so others with slightly nicer pictures and better descriptions I thought. Mine was the only 3 BR presidential in the mix.  The Tug2 ad was quite standard I thought.

Any suggestions for future tries would be very welcome either answering this thread or pm me.  Not trying to make a living but thought a little offsetting income would help balance our points ownership level. Otherwise I might consider shedding about 210k points.

Bob


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## am1 (Jan 7, 2018)

What price were you asking?   In past years I would rent that between $1099 - $1249.  I would have 10-20 3 and 4 bedroom presidentials.  Most likely not all would rent.  

It is a slow time of year.  I have no idea what the current market is now.


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## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> I must be the world's worst renter .. have never had luck with renting out timeshare weeks.
> 
> I've very successfully rented physical property in the Midwestern town where I live for years but never have luck with timeshare weeks.  Recently, we thought we stumbled on a good thing worth renting .. a 3 bedroom presidential at Bonnet Creek the week of January 28th popped up 2 months ago so we snagged it.  But alas I just had to cancel my ads and cancel the reservation because we're coming up on the 15 day cancelation period without it rented.  Perhaps a 3 BR presidential does not fetch any more interest than the 3 BR deluxe.
> 
> ...



You might have tried listing it on eBay too. You would have to increase the price by 10% to cover the eBay final value fee.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 7, 2018)

I know nothing about Bonnet Creek rentals but logic tells me that a 3 bedroom during a non-school vacation week would not have great appeal. Most people traveling during such times are retirees and people without kids who don't need a 3 bdrm unit.


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## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2018)

There are also a lot of people who home school, have kids who aren't in school yet or don't have a problem with their kids missing a week of school so the family can visit Disney World without the crowds they would encounter during any school break vacation. Tickets for a whole family to go to Disney isn't cheap so going when they can do the most at the Parks makes good sense for many families.

The larger presidential units are great for several retired couples to share and many want to get away from the colder temperatures in other parts of the Country.


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## OutSkiing (Jan 7, 2018)

am1 said:


> What price were you asking?   In past years I would rent that between $1099 - $1249.  I would have 10-20 3 and 4 bedroom presidentials.  Most likely not all would rent.



I got down to $1600 for a unit that cost 289k points and no discounts.  I would have reduced further but the 15 day mark crept up on me quickly. 

Bob


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## spackler (Jan 8, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> Advertised on Tug2 and on Craigslist for Orlando area. Craigslist ad was comparable to the dozen or so others with slightly nicer pictures and better descriptions I thought. Mine was the only 3 BR presidential in the mix.  The Tug2 ad was quite standard I thought.



Many prospective renters are leery of sending money to a stranger on Craigslist and 99% of the public doesn't know that TUG even exists.

Unfortunately, the higher-fee sites (like eBay and Redweek) will net you more inquiries/renters.


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## Weimaraner (Jan 8, 2018)

I rented a Bonnet Creek renter on Ebay. Would have loved to have in a presidential unit. Prices were pretty competitive which was great for me. The advantage of Ebay is that I felt pretty confident with the rental since the seller had an excellent rating. As an owner, Redweek has worked great for me and coincidentally my last renter happens to live about 15 minutes from me.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> I got down to $1600 for a unit that cost 289k points and no discounts.  I would have reduced further but the 15 day mark crept up on me quickly.
> 
> Bob


 
So you got down to $1600.  See the  post above from am1. He could rent these for just over $1000 and still, presumably, make a profit

I suspect your prospective renters have been spoiled by am1’s pricing.  And are settling for 2 bedrooms or finding bargains elsewhere


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## DeniseM (Jan 8, 2018)

I don't think regular owners can compete with the professional Wyndham owners on price.  Also, I would add Redweek.com to your advertising sites.


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## am1 (Jan 8, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> I don't think regular owners can compete with the professional Wyndham owners on price.  Also, I would add Redweek.com to your advertising sites.



Price at least before but also repeat business and referrals.  No doubt someone would have and probably many did pay the asking price for what was being rented at Bonnet Creek or a similar room elsewhere but they had no idea this room was for rent or were not confident in the renter.  Listing rentals on ebay as an auction never works as there is not enough people wanting the same think and people want to lock in their rental and not have to wait for an auction to close.  

Timeshare rentals is a very inefficient market.  I had an idea to make it more efficient at least for some properties but never acted on it.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2018)

T


DeniseM said:


> I don't think regular owners can compete with the professional Wyndham owners on price.  Also, I would add Redweek.com to your advertising sites.


what you say was the case before the new rules and website. Wyndham has done a pretty good job putting most of the pros out of business


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## Sandi Bo (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm late to the game, but wanted to add a few comments.

I've had the same thoughts as OP (I could be world's worst #2).  It's so frustrating when you have something really good and can't get it rented.  You know someone is out there, but just don't done how to connect.

I remember when I very first started this, 5-6 years ago. I was on the Disney Board and someone posted their rental had fallen through. They were desperately, so they said, looking for a large rental unit. I was thrilled with excitement when I saw a 4BR Presidential at Bonnet Creek and offered it to them.  I don't remember what for, but at that time I bet it was my cost (50% off, doubtful I understood upgrades yet).  We were right at the 15 day mark (I didn't realize how the cancellations came back at that time)   They weren't interested (didn't even respond) and I got flagged on the board for soliciting. Lesson one, lol, not to advertise on the Disney board (I was clueless).

Fast forward, just this Christmas, I had a 3 BR Presidential Reserve over New Year's Ever at Bonnet Creek.  I picked it up a while back so it was full price.  I knew it wouldn't come back if I cancelled as WYN held pretty much all of BC for Christmas week.  I offered it to several people at my cost (because I'd rather give it to someone else (anyone else) than Wyndham).  No takers.  I cancelled it and it never came back. I don't think it gets much better than a presidential unit at BC over NYE - but (most) people don't want to pay full price for things. 

Different resorts market differently  Craigslist seems better in the Northeast, ebay in Florida.  People want cheap, they don't care what your cost is, they don't care if it prime or value season.  I have places I know well, and I (hope I) know how the market works for those particular resorts.  At those resorts, I can do okay.  If I rent other places, it's because a repeat customer or relative has specifically requested it.  Otherwise I stick to what I know and do my best to follow closely what goes on there (marketing as well as issues with inventory, etc).  And even so, will end up with a hot ticket (presidential over new year's) that I relinquish back to Wyndham cause I can't get it rented.


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## chapjim (Jan 19, 2018)

Sandi Bo said:


> <snip>
> 
> I have places I know well, and I (hope I) know how the market works for those particular resorts.  At those resorts, I can do okay.  If I rent other places, it's because a repeat customer or relative has specifically requested it.  Otherwise I stick to what I know and do my best to follow closely what goes on there (marketing as well as issues with inventory, etc).  And even so, will end up with a hot ticket (presidential over new year's) that I relinquish back to Wyndham cause I can't get it rented.



I operate pretty much the same.  I have a relative handful of resorts that I keep coming back to -- different resorts at different times of year.  Some (Emerald Grande and Panama City Beach come to mind) are so expensive during prime time that I don't even mess with them but I will and do off-season.  I rarely make a reservation at a resort I've never seen.

I'm facing the same dilemma -- I have Bike Week reservations at Ocean Walk and Spring Break 4BR units at Bonnet Creek made a year ago.  Can't sell them at full price, but if I cancel them, I'll never see them again.  I already lost one Bike Week reservation playing around (detailed in an earlier post).  Over a million and a half points tied up in those reservations. 

Wyndham's changes were very effective at doing what they wanted to do.  And, they are able to spin it as "enhancements."


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## Roger830 (Jan 19, 2018)

Perhaps the problem is the product, Wyndham. 

When looking for rentals, I now avoid Wyndham. Who wants to pay top dollar, then risk having the reservation cancelled or be harassed by sales weasels.

A Wyndham January week in Pompano was ok at $629-699 on ebay, but no way would I pay $1099, then be treated like a schmuck at checkin.


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## Sandi Bo (Jan 19, 2018)

True that!   I just had someone who wanted Grand Desert and told him I was not comfortable renting there right now due to the lockout/overbooking issue.   I avoid resorts once I hear there are issues.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 19, 2018)

I am sure Wyndham has more daggers up their pants' legs to effect Wyndham product owners large and small. I am not posting any 'could be future targets' ... 

But I will be happy to point out to Wyndham... smaller families are the normal (studios and 1bdrs travellers), grandparents have no pensions or nestegg of cash to spend on the (grand)kiddies, Wyndham ain't DVC, waterfront property suffers SALT WATER damage & seasonal BIG storms, and your little resorts require TOO much onsite labor and staff (24hr desk for a 90 unit building  ... 18 units of 2/2; 36 units of 1/2, 36 studios) for with stays of 1 night to 7 nights.

And your OLDER resort buildings are just that .. OLD. And require more maintence where wood is used as the outside finished siding. And do some tree trimming and removal ... wait til a GOOD STORM takes out buildings, cars and injuries a few guests.


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## cayman01 (Jan 19, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> I must be the world's worst renter .. have never had luck with renting out timeshare weeks.
> 
> I've very successfully rented physical property in the Midwestern town where I live for years but never have luck with timeshare weeks.  Recently, we thought we stumbled on a good thing worth renting .. a 3 bedroom presidential at Bonnet Creek the week of January 28th popped up 2 months ago so we snagged it.  But alas I just had to cancel my ads and cancel the reservation because we're coming up on the 15 day cancelation period without it rented.  Perhaps a 3 BR presidential does not fetch any more interest than the 3 BR deluxe.
> 
> ...



No, I am th worst as I have two Mardi Gras reservations I failed to rent. I guess there’s a learning curve to it. I have no problem renting to friends and relatives who see the value in what they get. But the Marketplace and Craigslist have been a mystery to me.

 I will try again but I think eBay May be the way to go for me. Reach more people. I also wonder if we had a rental board in this same format ( like the last minute board) if we would have more luck with rentals. Just seems so much easier to go they that the Marketplace.


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## DeniseM (Jan 19, 2018)

Just a note on terminology:

As the owner, you are the rent*o*r, and the person who is renting from you is the renter, or rentee.


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## OutSkiing (Jan 19, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> Just a note on terminology:
> 
> As the owner, you are the rent*o*r, and the person who is renting from you is the renter, or rentee.



Rentor is not officialy in the dictionary but there is a note on it’s origin here: 
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/renter-rentor.1325769/

It seems lessor / lessee are both in the dictionary.

Rentor and lessor do seem more powerful like director or aviator .. maybe thats my problem .. I haven’t properly identified myself as head honcho.  

Then again janitor ends in ‘tor’ so that’s probably a more appropriate comparison.  

Bob


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## chapjim (Jan 20, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> Rentor is not officialy in the dictionary but there is a note on it’s origin here:
> https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/renter-rentor.1325769/
> 
> It seems lessor / lessee are both in the dictionary.
> ...



Does that mean there is a janitee?


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## Wolf&Sprite (Jan 20, 2018)

chapjim said:


> Does that mean there is a janitee?



Yes, that's the person or thing that gets janited.


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## chapjim (Jan 21, 2018)

Wolf&Sprite said:


> Yes, that's the person or thing that gets janited.



Ew!  Sounds awful!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 21, 2018)

I have just recently rented some weeks that are float weeks I reserved a year out, and it was tough to get those rented.  I also own oceanfront Maui, not fancy at all, and we own 3 weeks but only use two.  Renting it for just maintenance fees and taxes has been ridiculously difficult, even when I book whale season.  

I find it ironic that people who live in ordinary houses, not fancy (just ordinary like my own house) will only stay in Westin or Marriott accommodations when vacationing, no matter what the cost or view.  I don't need fancy, I just want clean and comfortable and oceanfront, when I can get it.


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## OutSkiing (Jan 21, 2018)

Roger830 said:


> Perhaps the problem is the product, Wyndham.
> 
> When looking for rentals, I now avoid Wyndham. Who wants to pay top dollar, then risk having the reservation cancelled or be harassed by sales weasels.
> 
> A Wyndham January week in Pompano was ok at $629-699 on ebay, but no way would I pay $1099, then be treated like a schmuck at checkin.



Yes .. prior to the 'upgrade' and new rules, there was a 'circle of life' symbiotic relationship between 1) VIP owners,  2) rentors, 3) renters and 4) Wyndham sales. This was because VIP owners could get more value for their points than non-VIP owners,  rentors could make a buck, renters could get something affordable and Wyndham Sales would get a fresh supply of wide-eyed prospects to visit their sales office.  Now I know as a fact that groups 1 and 2 are not getting their value and are extremely upset, I'm pretty sure group 3 gets less satisfaction and I'll just bet group 4 is thwarted,frustrated and less successful as well. I truly hope this does not spell the "beginning of the end" of Wyndham as a growing / thriving vacation ownership company. It seems they are throwing away the 'secret sauce' that made this formula work so well in the past.

Bob


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## bizaro86 (Jan 21, 2018)

I think (4) wants rental prices to rise. Pretty hard to sell someone who rented a 3 bedroom presidential for $1299/week on making a $40k purchase to get a regular 2 bedroom for $1299/week...


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## Nomad34 (Jan 22, 2018)

Thank you for all of this thread and hopefully your rentals will return. I have only rented a few times but only to friends who value my timeshares and want to help me pay MF. I never purchased for renting and worried about IRS audits if I did. I still have availability of upgrades and discounts and my MF are low so at least I can continue using my timeshares to pay them.  I tell each person to tell the personnel they are very busy and can't take time to have a meal and listen to any sales. So far no one has bothered them until they return home and get calls for future vacations that are headaches since they have to listen and don't have the luxury of a condo in most cases. I look forward to having my website not shared with Voyager and maybe get back on the vacation times versus business of rentals.


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## md8287 (Jan 24, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> Yes .. prior to the 'upgrade' and new rules, there was a 'circle of life' symbiotic relationship between 1) VIP owners,  2) rentors, 3) renters and 4) Wyndham sales. This was because VIP owners could get more value for their points than non-VIP owners,  rentors could make a buck, renters could get something affordable and Wyndham Sales would get a fresh supply of wide-eyed prospects to visit their sales office.  Now I know as a fact that groups 1 and 2 are not getting their value and are extremely upset


As part of group 1, I totally agree and have given up any thoughts of renting Wyndham.  Fortunately I found someone that wanted my points.


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## Nomad34 (Jan 24, 2018)

md8287 said:


> As part of group 1, I totally agree and have given up any thoughts of renting Wyndham.  Fortunately I found someone that wanted my points.


Group 1 too and still love my resorts and go a few days during value time, use smallest unit and discount then upgrade. Hopefully my charity will get some donations to have my deeds


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## Baby Jane (Jan 25, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> Yes .. prior to the 'upgrade' and new rules, there was a 'circle of life' symbiotic relationship between 1) VIP owners,  2) rentors, 3) renters and 4) Wyndham sales. This was because VIP owners could get more value for their points than non-VIP owners,  rentors could make a buck, renters could get something affordable and Wyndham Sales would get a fresh supply of wide-eyed prospects to visit their sales office.  Now I know as a fact that groups 1 and 2 are not getting their value and are extremely upset, I'm pretty sure group 3 gets less satisfaction and I'll just bet group 4 is thwarted,frustrated and less successful as well. I truly hope this does not spell the "beginning of the end" of Wyndham as a growing / thriving vacation ownership company. It seems they are throwing away the 'secret sauce' that made this formula work so well in the past.
> 
> Bob


I am not sure how well renting  will go for me but I do know when your booking peak summer spring or fall break what you can rent most weeks for is way cheaper than the open market. I was surrprised to find at least 2 of my friends so far this year have been willing to pay the extra cost.If you try to find even beachfont hotels they are over 200 a night. I am not doing it for profit though I just want to recoupe cost of points we can't use.


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## Tank (Jan 25, 2018)

IMHO

I think group 3 are going to be traveling off prime time for the $100 a night or save the money and stay home. Many expect to travel for $100 a night, prime time, (we all see it) and until now have been able to do it on a regular bases. This is drying up.  

Group 2  is going to be on a more even playing field without the discounts. Driving prices up to at least an actual cost rental. (no cancel -rebook, only reserve so many touching reservation, etc) 

Group 2  will not have to pay for half of group 3s vacation just to get a little help on the MF's ,  with the new playing field. 

Group 3  will find out primetime costs 3 to 4 times (sometimes more) that $100 a night  (check what your resort rents that week for directly, I think many would be surprised) 

This will actually help resales because being a owner could save you some money when this happens, I predict pretty soon. 

 Tug's 24 year $100 a night price freeze for last minute vacation request / or plan changing give aways,  has enabled this expectation to happen today. I bet 20 years ago Group 3 had to pay a more "at cost" price and I'm sure were offered below the $100 a night price to get them rented out when plans changed. 
As I'm sure $100 last minute would still be available today, when asking to go somewhere at prime time the true cost of ownership will appear opening up the eyes of many who think this is a dirt cheap way to travel.

As owners we are not cheap. We work hard to save ourselves a few dollars. 

What I have learned here is that I can travel anywhere in the world as a renter without being a owner. More than not save money doing so. With very little hassle.
My highest expectation would be to get to travel, at owners cost. 
If I were able to do this I would feel I got a good deal. Is this not why we bought, we feel our cost is a good deal.  

All Group1, group2, and the *new Group3* could be happy.  
*
Old $100 night Group3 prime time would be unhappy.  This group does not shop Redweek*


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## CO skier (Jan 26, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> Yes .. prior to the 'upgrade' and new rules, there was a 'circle of life' symbiotic relationship between 1) VIP owners,  2) rentors, 3) renters and 4) Wyndham sales. This was because VIP owners could get more value for their points than non-VIP owners,  rentors could make a buck, renters could get something affordable and Wyndham Sales would get a fresh supply of wide-eyed prospects to visit their sales office.  Now I know as a fact that groups 1 and 2 are not getting their value and are extremely upset, I'm pretty sure group 3 gets less satisfaction and I'll just bet group 4 is thwarted,frustrated and less successful as well. I truly hope this does not spell the "beginning of the end" of Wyndham as a growing / thriving vacation ownership company. It seems they are throwing away the 'secret sauce' that made this formula work so well in the past.
> 
> Bob


This was not a "circle of life" it was a half-circle of profitability for VIP renters who could book-cancel-rebook-upgrade the same reservation to the detriment of owners willing to book that same reservation at the same booking window for full points.

Voyager does not mean the "beginning of the end" for this secret sauce scam; it means the end of this scam.

It won't make one difference to the sales department.  They can still sell the concept of "50% VIP discounts mean twice as many reservations" (and that is what was presented at my last "update".  It just won't be 13-month reservations rebooked 11 months later).


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## Baby Jane (Jan 26, 2018)

CO skier said:


> This was not a "circle of life" it was a half-circle of profitability for VIP renters who could book-cancel-rebook-upgrade the same reservation to the detriment of owners willing to book that same reservation at the same booking window for full points.
> 
> Voyager does not mean the "beginning of the end" for this secret sauce scam; it means the end of this scam.
> 
> ...


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## Nomad34 (Jan 27, 2018)

CO skier said:


> This was not a "circle of life" it was a half-circle of profitability for VIP renters who could book-cancel-rebook-upgrade the same reservation to the detriment of owners willing to book that same reservation at the same booking window for full points.
> 
> Voyager does not mean the "beginning of the end" for this secret sauce scam; it means the end of this scam.
> 
> It won't make one difference to the sales department.  They can still sell the concept of "50% VIP discounts mean twice as many reservations" (and that is what was presented at my last "update".  It just won't be 13-month reservations rebooked 11 months later).


Interesting sales pitch. Where was this?


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## OutSkiing (Jan 27, 2018)

Baby Jane said:


> .  As stated before we never have done it for profit just trying to recoupe maintenance on what we do not currently use. When we retire we hope to use all those weeks ourselves but were hoping it would stretch to truly get that 50% discount. Not sure if it will work or not.


We are in the same place. No big deal if we can’t rent out at a profit. Right now it appears we only get the 50% discount on ‘leftovers’.  That makes the sales pitch technically true but actually baseless.

The pendulum may swing .. they used to tout that most of their sales were to repeat customers. I agree they should have rules that prevent ‘mass profiting’  through renting  but they should re-arrange things to restore more VIP value.  The restrictions on guest certificates would have been enough to curtail the large scale renting.

Bob


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## Baby Jane (Jan 28, 2018)

OutSkiing said:


> We are in the same place. No big deal if we can’t rent out at a profit. Right now it appears we only get the 50% discount on ‘leftovers’.  That makes the sales pitch technically true but actually baseless.
> 
> The pendulum may swing .. they used to tout that most of their sales were to repeat customers. I agree they should have rules that prevent ‘mass profiting’  through renting  but they should re-arrange things to restore more VIP value.  The restrictions on guest certificates would have been enough to curtail the large scale renting.
> 
> Bob


Due to the location we used to live most of my friends like smokey mountains and for that I dont book if its not discounted.


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