# Exterminate  Andriod Phone Machines



## pacodemountainside (May 4, 2012)

One of the deep mysteries of modern life is why, in a nation with some 14 million unemployed people, it has become nearly impossible to call a store, a business or a government agency and speak to a live human being. I'm not a Luddite; I don't rage against the machine; and I've always argued that the digital age is making life better in almost every way. But there are some things even in the 21st century that humans still do better than robots. One of them is providing customer service on the telephone. 

Telephone answering services—or what the industry calls "Interactive Voice Response"—gets my vote for the runaway worst invention of the last half-century. They should call them anti-customer retention devices. 

Airlines (with the exception of Southwest, which almost always picks up within a minute) are among the worst offenders. I recently called United Airlines in a futile attempt to spend dollars to buy their product. Mind you, this is an industry that has lost billions of dollars and much of which has sought federal bankruptcy protection. You'd think they'd be rolling out the red carpet in gratitude. 

Instead, I'm greeted with that familiar, annoying voice instructing me that before I will get any help, I need to first answer "a few simple questions." I keep repeating one word over and over: "agent." The android says, "Sorry I couldn't hear you, can you repeat that?" And I practically swallow the mouthpiece as I yell "AGENT," and then the droid intones, "I think I heard you said you'd like to speak to an agent, is that right?"

Then I was transferred to what they now call the "agent queue." Excuse me, this is the United States of America, not Russia. We don't queue up to buy things unless it's the new iPad or a new line of Air Jordan sneakers. In this particular venture into agent-queue purgatory I'm put on hold for 41 minutes. 

This becomes an endurance test. If you rush to the bathroom, that is surely when the agent is going to come on and you're going to have to start all over. 

What's especially maddening about this whole ritual is that the airlines got the clever idea a few months back that with hundreds of thousands of captive customers stuck in answering service purgatory, they can make money by running radio ads for Home Depot and the like while you wait. Great, the longer I'm on hold, the more money the company makes. I'd say our incentives are misaligned here. 

I've been doing some research on this issue, and I've discovered that customer backlash against automated phone answering services is surging. Websites are proliferating with tips and tricks about how to navigate through these systems, head-fake the robotic gatekeepers, and minimize waiting times. 

The first obvious pointer is to say "agent," "operator," or "complaint," over and over, no matter what the question. Another pointer is to never be cooperative or play by their rules; they want you to be as docile as a lamb. 

Some experts advise that cursing gets you through the queue faster (but cussing out a real person is rarely advisable), because some of the newer "smart" services have emotion-detection technology, which red flags the operators that there's a ticked-off person at the other end of the line. It doesn't hurt to make the robot think you have a rotary phone and you would gladly follow its litany of inane commands but don't have buttons to push. 

A friend of mine is a senior vice president at one of the major airlines, and I recently cross-examined him about why his company subjects its prized customers to these horrible machines. He told me, "They save us a bundle of money. Millions of dollars, actually." The automated answering systems "don't get paid, they don't take sick days, they're not unionized, and they never have bad attitudes," he explained. 

I'm not so sure these companies are right that these phone systems are truly money savers. Truly successful companies like Apple invest a lot of dollars building up their brand and amassing a loyal customer base that will buy the product again and again. 

Putting people on hold for five or 10 or 30 minutes is the antithesis of the philosophy that the customer is king. It's the height of rudeness. It is telling your customers: Our time is more valuable than yours, so we are going to make you wait and wait and converse with a computer. 

And by the way, stop rubbing salt in the wounds with the intermittent "your call is important to us," or "you're a valued customer," and "we apologize for the inconvenience." All lies. 

So I'm going on a one-man customer strike and I hope others join me. If I don't get a live person within two minutes on the phone, I now hang up and take my business elsewhere. I'll gladly pay more for real customer service.


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## Patri (May 4, 2012)

You go Paco! It also bugs me when you type your account number in, so the android knows who you are. When you get the live person, you have to give the number again. Hello? It should be on your screen, along with all my personal information in our business relationship.


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## timeos2 (May 4, 2012)

The worst I ever came across was AT&T - the PHONE company for heaven's sake! They had a voice response system set up that repeatedly told you to go to the web site (where they asked for a password that of course you never had! So that was a dead end as well) and no amount of "0" or other operator keys or commands would ever yield an actual persons voice. if you did manage to reach the end of the trail it would say "No one available" and hang up.

I had an unauthorized third party charge appearing on my billing and try as I might couldn't reach the so called provider so I was trying to get AT&T handle the removal. Could never talk to them (or email them as the mysterious lack of the unknown password prevented any use of email) so I just wrote on a bill that I refused to pay - call me. They never did so it went unpaid & the account closed.  They lost a 30+ year customer and I don't miss them.


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## PigsDad (May 4, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> So I'm going on a one-man customer strike and I hope others join me. If I don't get a live person within two minutes on the phone, I now hang up and take my business elsewhere. I'll gladly pay more for real customer service.


If everyone did this, companies would certainly change their ways.  But unfortunately the vast majority of customers, when given the choice between two products, will choose the cheaper one.  That is most likely the one made by the company that has a lower level of customer service because their costs are lower.

Customer service is very labor-intensive, and therefore very costly.  If they can replace a call center of 1000 people with an automated system and call center of 10 people, that is a huge savings.  They know they will lose some fringe customers that get upset with their service, but overall they will make more profit in the end; AND their customers will pay less for their product.

Kurt


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## Karen G (May 4, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> So I'm going on a one-man customer strike and I hope others join me. If I don't get a live person within two minutes on the phone, I now hang up and take my business elsewhere. I'll gladly pay more for real customer service.


It's too bad that Zappos.com doesn't sell airline tickets. If you just want to talk to a live person, call Zappos.


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## pacodemountainside (May 4, 2012)

Karen G said:


> It's too bad that Zappos.com doesn't sell airline tickets. If you just want to talk to a live person, call Zappos.



I will pass. I am  an olde  Western horse trader that likes to  kick tires  and check out  the merchandise, especially teeth in horse's mouth.:whoopie:  

Love my local WalMart! 

Use the Internet whenever possible to book time shares  and planes, but sometimes one is  forced  to deal with  telephone mayhem! 

While I don't dispute it lowers costs and increases profits, I  have found my plane fares steadily increasing and about everything  now a la carte including a fat lady  sitting with/on  you!!

Interesting article in Denver Post today that Spirit  Air has returned to Denver with fares as low at $9.00 but $100.00 for a medium size carry on!!! The olde give them a  razor and  sell the  blades or  printer for $25 and four  cartridges  for $65. My Brother  LC-51  cartridges.


Actual article. Cute   bag sizer did not copy!


Spirit Airlines Begins Denver Service As Customers Grouse About Fees

Flight No. 562 taxied to gate A31 Thursday morning, marking Spirit Airlines' return to Denver International Airport. 

The new daily nonstop service to Chicago O'Hare; Dallas/Fort Worth; Fort Lauderdale, Fla.; and Las Vegas came a day after Spirit announced it will increase the fee paid at the gate for a carry-on bag placed in an overhead bin from $45 to $100. 

A carry-on bag paid for at a kiosk in the airport will rise to $50 from $40. The new fees are effective Nov. 6. 



Several passengers on Spirit's inaugural flight to Las Vegas were surprised and angered by the current carry-on bag fees. 

"My wife and I had to pay $180 for our bags just one way to Las Vegas," said Brian Quintana of Commerce City. "That's more than we paid for our roundtrip tickets." 

Quintana said he gave one large bag to friends who were also flying to Las Vegas so they could check it for free on their Southwest Airlines flight. 

"After paying all of (Spirit's) fees, we're right back where we would have been on Frontier or Southwest," Quintana said. His wife, Susanna, was not happy, saying, "I will never fly this airline again. They even wanted $18 each to sit next to each other." 

Quintana said he booked the flight on Orbitz and didn't know about the extra fees. "I'm in trouble for choosing this airline," he said. "I'm going to Las Vegas, and I might be going to get divorced." 

Other passengers expressed unhappiness as they checked to see whether their bags were under-the-seat small or overhead-bin big. "This is crazy," said Brian McClain of Denver, whose bag was deemed too bulky. 

Most of Spirit's reservations are made on its website, but bookings also are made on sites such as Orbitz and Travelocity. 

"We are very clear and transparent on our website and want to ensure that customers know all of their options before they make their purchase," said Spirit spokeswoman Misty Pinson. 

That's not always the case on third-party sites, she said. "While we give them all of the information on our various options and fees, they do not all present this information to customers." 

Spirit, which is based in Miramar, Fla., has built its reputation as an ultra-low cost airline with fares as low as $9 and a host of optional fees, such as $5 for a gate agent to print a boarding pass and $17 to book a flight online.


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## pjrose (May 4, 2012)

I'm with you.

I press 0 a lot and say "representative" a few times.  It usually gets me through.  Another frustration is when the machine wants me to punch in my account number and zip code and so forth, and then the representative wants all that again.  Why bother to tell the machine in the first place?

I have had excellent real-person customer service from Canon and Moen.


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## pedro47 (May 4, 2012)

pjrose said:


> I'm with you.
> 
> I press 0 a lot and say "representative" a few times.  It usually gets me through.  Another frustration is when the machine wants me to punch in my account number and zip code and so forth, and then the representative wants all that again.  Why bother to tell the machine in the first place?
> 
> I have had excellent real-person customer service from Canon and Moen.



Please call Dell if you want excellent customer-sevice. Right !!!


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## amycurl (May 4, 2012)

This is the most AWESOME POST/RANT EVER.  

I run an office, and I have one inviolate rule: if there is a person in the office, a real live human will answer the phone if at all possible.

I especially hate it when I come up against uneasily navigable phone trees within relatively small, nonprofit organizations. It just seems like that industry, at least, should be the last to abandon humans-who-answer-the-phone.

Oh, and I've found this site rarely steers me wrong: www.gethuman.com. Based on John's post above, I'm not surprised that the top search on this site is for AT&T.


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## tschwa2 (May 4, 2012)

I'm surprised it took so long to get through to an airline when you were trying to buy.  Indicating that you were looking to purchase generally gets you through in less than half the time it would take if you indicated that you need to "service" an existing reservation.  The only problem with specifying sales for all your needs is you get sent to agents who are quick and efficient at getting you to give them a credit card and get off the phone so they can get to the next sales call.  To get to the few agents that don't mind actually listening and helping you resolve a problem which take time you are put on hold hell, unless of course a sales agent has an empty line and then you are put through to the sales person who wants to turn your service call into a sale or get you off the phone as quickly as possible.


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## MichaelColey (May 4, 2012)

The ONLY company I've seen that does a good job with automated telephone handling is American Airlines.  If I call from my home or cell phone, it recognizes my number, calls me by name, and asks if I'm calling about [my next flight].  It does an excellent job of recognizing anything I say, it handles a lot of basic stuff, it's easy to get to a live agent, and my information is passed on to them.

With many companies' outsourced customer service, I'd rather speak to a computer than to someone who calls me "Meester Michael", can't properly pronounce most proper names, has to have just about every word spelled out for them multiple times, and isn't empowered to do anything.


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## artringwald (May 4, 2012)

I've found that if I answer every question by mumbling, the android thinks I have a very heavy accent and connects me to a human who speaks very clear English.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2012)

Big businesses want to make money - not provide customer service.  Most businesses these days are monopolies - especially the airlines.  Where else are you going to go to get a plane?  There is very little competition in the airline industry.  The same goes for many other industries.  I am convinced that the automated system is designed to keep you unhappy and stop you from calling. Every large company has crappy phone service whether it is clothing, airlines, insurance, cable, online or offline buying etc.   They all want you to do your business with them on the web and not to ask for service from a costly human.

I agree this is extremely frustrating but believe it is frustrating by design.


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## pjrose (May 5, 2012)

artringwald said:


> I've found that if I answer every question by mumbling, the android thinks I have a very heavy accent and connects me to a human who speaks very clear English.



Too funny, but a great idea!


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## JoeWilly (May 5, 2012)

Paco,

I enjoyed your post and agree with most of it but -- "I'll gladly pay more for real customer service. I love my local Walmart."  

I've never experienced good customer service (usually no customer service--can't find a live clerk in the store except at huge checkout lines).  IMHO, Walmart is one of the worst for customer service.  I'd rather pay more and shop somewhere else.


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## Beefnot (May 5, 2012)

Apple has top flight customer service. Of course that is also reflected in their pricing.


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## pacodemountainside (May 5, 2012)

*WalMart*



JoeWilly said:


> Paco,
> 
> I enjoyed your post and agree with most of it but -- "I'll gladly pay more for real customer service. I love my local Walmart."
> 
> I've never experienced good customer service (usually no customer service--can't find a live clerk in the store except at huge checkout lines).  IMHO, Walmart is one of the worst for customer service.  I'd rather pay more and shop somewhere else.





Maybe should start a thread on why I love/hate WalMart! 


I moved about a year ago and went to closest WalMart and knew I was in deep shit when there were no handicapped spaces open and half the cars in them did not have permits/plates. Went in store and two out of order "golf carts". Then went by check out and noted NO self service but about 10 unmanned registers. Beat a hasty retreat for olde WalMart even though a couple miles further  away. Definately a  difference in  store management!

Had previously bought heavy big room AC. Stock guy put on cart and hauled to my SUV. Bought a 40 inch TV and check out gal in electronics hauled to my SUV! Bought a patio table and guy hauled to my SUV and moved stuff around so it would fit! Buy cat litter in 35-38 pound buckets and they haul out and load in  SUV!

Returns are never a problem although there is always a line! 

Cashiers ready accept Wednesday newspaper ads from other stores for price match eliminating need to shop around. 

Never a problem with valid manufacturers coupons!

Denver Post Newspaper does a survey about once  a year and compares grocery  prices. WalMart comes out on top even if  a couple   of selected basket of 20-25 items  are  on sale  at other stores!

Obviously , if one has large family that eats like wild  lions then Costco or if  military 
 the  BX/Commissary is the way to go! 

I do prefer to go to local  Sprouts Market  for fresh fruit and veggies!


Disclaimer: I do not directly own any WalMart stock. Sold  my 1,000 shares a couple years ago and bought PetsMart.  People  tend to spend more lavishly on pets than themselves  and   stocks have responded  accordingly. 

Me culpa!



10/4 outta de back door on all four:deadhorse:


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## Tia (May 5, 2012)

Patri said:


> ... It also bugs me when *you type your account number* in, so the android knows who you are. *When you get the live person, you have to give the number again. Hello?* It should be on your screen, along with all my personal information in our business relationship.



I TOTALLY agree and it's just stupid they don't have it.


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## Tia (May 5, 2012)

artringwald said:


> I've found that if I answer every question by mumbling, the android thinks I have a very heavy accent and connects me to a human who speaks very clear English.



Going to try it next time! :hysterical:


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## pjrose (May 5, 2012)

JoeWilly said:


> Paco,
> 
> I enjoyed your post and agree with most of it but -- *"I'll gladly pay more for real customer service. I love my local Walmart." *
> 
> I've never experienced good customer service (usually no customer service--can't find a live clerk in the store except at huge checkout lines).  IMHO, Walmart is one of the worst for customer service.  I'd rather pay more and shop somewhere else.



Occasionally it's good, but I have to seek it out.  Once I encountered someone who was very helpful, really went beyond the call of duty.  I went up to the customer service desk to ask for a little form to describe my positive experience and list her name, and the customer service person stared at me blankly....no such form.  I finally wrote the info on a piece of register tape, and the customer service person promised to give it to the manager.


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## pagosajim (May 5, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> One of the deep mysteries of modern life is why, in a nation with some 14 million unemployed ...



Nicely written essay, and clearly strikes a chord with many reading here (including myself!).

I take exception to posting as if authored by OP without credit to the real author or reference to the original article.  We all learned about plagiarism in high school English class.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...77380411557989158.html?KEYWORDS=stephen+moore


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## PigsDad (May 5, 2012)

pagosajim said:


> Nicely written essay, and clearly strikes a chord with many reading here (including myself!).
> 
> I take exception to posting as if authored by OP without credit to the real author or reference to the original article.  We all learned about plagiarism in high school English class.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...77380411557989158.html?KEYWORDS=stephen+moore



*Oh-oh...*
*BUSTED!!!*

Nice detective work, PagosaJim! 

Kurt


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## pjrose (May 5, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> One of the deep mysteries of modern life . . .





pagosajim said:


> Nicely written essay, and clearly strikes a chord with many reading here (including myself!).
> 
> I take exception to posting as if authored by OP without credit to the real author or reference to the original article.  We all learned about plagiarism in high school English class.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...77380411557989158.html?KEYWORDS=stephen+moore





PigsDad said:


> *Oh-oh...*
> *BUSTED!!!*
> 
> Nice detective work, PagosaJim!
> ...



With Kurt - good job PagosaJim!  What tipped you off?

Paco, if you were in my class, you'd be looking at a big Zero and wondering if you were going to pass the class and graduate.


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## Beefnot (May 6, 2012)

Paco, is "Paco" just your handle and your real name is Stephen?


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## bogey21 (May 6, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> The worst I ever came across was AT&T - the PHONE company for heaven's sake! They had a voice response system set up that repeatedly told you to go to the web site (where they asked for a password that of course you never had!



I'm surprised.  I'm no apologist for AT&T but have to say I have had no problem getting through to a live person at AT&T with little delay. 

George


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## Passepartout (May 6, 2012)

I dislike the 'phonebots' as much as anyone, but again like everyone, go with the low-priced provider 9-times-out-of 10. Whether it's phone service, a drug store, airline, car rental outfit or whatever. Often, and with good reason the low cost provider does so because their costs are lower, and that means having phonebots instead of humans.

Paco's dredging up of a well written article on the subject doesn't make it any less relevant. But to do so without attribution is thievery. 

Jim


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## pagosajim (May 6, 2012)

pjrose said:


> With Kurt - good job PagosaJim!  What tipped you off?



Paco (aka Morey) posts frequently on the "new" Wyndham Owners forum - the one that's now been down for about 2 months.  He's got an interesting writing style - abrupt, to the point, full of euphemisms, and never more than a sentence fragment or two per paragraph.  Somewhat entertaining, although an English prof (I think that's you, PJ ) might take issue with the style, but hey, this is a BBS and not a creative writing site.

That regular style, in contrast to the opinion article presented in this thread, is what tipped me off.  A quick Google search of the first sentence provided the necessary hit to confirm my suspicions.

As you may guess, I'm a bit sensitive to this type of activity.


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