# Destination Clubs



## Troopers (Jul 23, 2008)

What are the practical differences between Destination Clubs (such as HCC) and Timeshares?

Thanks.


----------



## Bourne (Jul 23, 2008)

For someone who used timeshares from 2000 onwards and owned 14K HGVC and 2 FS Aviara Platinum over the years, following are the practical differences between DCs and timeshares. Please note that some comparisons will include HCC but not all. HCC is at the bottom of the DC food chain.

1. Size - IMHO, the biggest difference. DCs are designed for families and people who travel with friends. An average HCC home is 3 bedroom whereas the industry average is closer to 4. For me personally, this was the biggest selling point. 

2. Consistent Quality - If you vacation more than 3 weeks a year, it is a given fact that you are not going to stay at the location you own(assuming you bought one of the best) more than 30% of the time over the years. Quality differs vastly even within the best of clubs( Vistana vs Westin, Hilton NY vs Sanibel properties.). And we all know exchanging opens up the door to more disparity. Simple things like stocked spices and laundry detergent, snorkel equipment and beach toys(Beach locations), XBOX with games, DVD with movies, humidifiers during winters(Ski Locations), high chair, pack n play in *all* homes makes a big difference.  

3. Availability - Ownership can guarantee me availability for a specific location during the time I want. However, this benefit is tied to one and one property only. With a DC, I am "competing" with a limited number of members playing by the same rules. In addition, my money counts when I want to bend rules in my favor i.e. Long Term Holiday Reservation capability further limiting the pool of competing members hence improving my chances.  

4. Service - IMHO, there is no comparison. Period. In my experience, only FS Aviara came close to what I wanted. Some things like pre-stocking of groceries could not be handled by all timeshares. Some had cookie-cutter basket options that I did not want. Examples of service that DCs can provide are pre-stocking of groceries, daily maid service, private chef, in home spa services, baby sitting and dining and entertainment reservations.

5. Responsiveness - Again there is no comparison. We all know how timeshare CSR's and sales people handle owners/members. 

6. Price - Last but not the least. I lock down the price with a contracted rate of increase. We may be informed Tuggers here but 95% of the timeshare market sales are still handled by the developer. Residual value of a unit purchased from a developer and skyrocketing annual dues are the exact opposite of what you will find in DC world.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 24, 2008)

I'll address the timeshare side of the debate here - I own 6 Marriott and belong to 2 DC's and also have seen both sides:

1. Size - I'm an empty nester and seldom need 2 bdrm suites -- a 5 bdrm house would be totally wasted for me. This is a real DC negative for me but it might not be for you depending on your family needs.

2. Consistent Quality - I have not idea where Bourne got those crazy stats on timeshare use if you own more than 3 weeks a year. I own 10 weeks if you count the split lockoffs and every year take 4 weeks in a row in Fort Lauderdale from Presidents week well into March breaks because it's a snowbird thing for me, getting away from winter. I've done it for 20 years or more...like a second home. The most consistent quality is Marriott IMO ... I've seen the others and know what Bourne means. However the 2 DC's I stayed at so far this year were no better than any timeshare I've stayed in (other than wasted space) -- they had broken furniture and appliances that didn't work and one took 3 days to fix as they didn't have any on-site maintenance. And I still had to make my own beds and clean up, just like in a timeshare, unless I paid extra.

3. Availability - Try to book President's week every year in any DC and you'll see you can't ... not allowed! And that's considered a 'holiday' week, as is all of March, so once you've got that 'holiday' time it's not available to you for a few years...but you only have a shot at it if you pay more for a higher level tier. Ouch. Yet, I can book President's week to mid March in Fort Lauderdale 13 months ahead and NEVER ever missed getting them...same with a couple of July 4th weeks in Williamsburg. It also means, I've got plenty of time to arrange to book and use frequent flyer miles and get the flights I want 330 days ahead. My experience is that getting a DC in prime time is more difficult than getting a Marriott TS as the DC may only have ONE property in the area you want and there's a mad midnight scramble to be the only one to get that one before all the other members ... and if you lose the race it's too late for the next location. So the mad booking scramble isn't any better with DC's -- IMO it's actually easier with Marriott booking 13 months ahead where they've got some 300 availabilities instead of just one.

4. Service - You get daily maid service, private chef, baby sitting, etc. at any timeshare if you are prepared to pay for them ... and you have to pay for them with most DC's too -- unless it's already included in the annual fees. The timeshare concierge will arrange them for you...but there's no free lunch for such services at DC's either.

5. Responsiveness - My experience is Marriott and I've never had a problem with them ... but I have had problems at one of my timeshares with the Home Owners Assoc who are owners making decisions for other ownes and constantly fighting with Marriott over keeping their standards.

6. Price - You can buy two 2-bdrm lockoff suites that can split into two full 1 bdrm suites at Grande Lakes Orlando Marriott for about $63,000 and get a residual value and 2 million Marriott points that would be $58,000 of that total ... but have a look at the trips you could take with 2 million MR points and your timeshare was free. See this post for more into:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=561412&postcount=33

My dues for 10 weeks of Marriott timesharing was $5450 last year - I don't know what the dues would be for 70 nights of DC dues! Plus, even with HCC you'll pay more than the cost of buying and owning the suites mentioned in the link above just for the membership fee and own nothing. There's nothing wrong in buying from the developer IF you plan on using the Marriott Reward points program to maximize your purchases by choosing from 2500 Marriotts around the world and flying there business class on those 2 million points! On the other hand, it seems DC's like members who do not use all the allotted time they've paid for as it makes it easier for other members to book their time...but with timeshares you can trade them for points, trade them, rent them, give them to friends when you're not there, or sell them. Very different beasts.

There are many ways to have enjoyable vacations, and you need to assess your past present and future holiday needs before you do anything. DC's are great for some but so are Timeshares. Marriott sold 300 of those above mentioned timeshares in one week! HCC took 5 years to sell that many memberships...and there are plenty who have sold many many less than that. 

Brian


----------



## Bourne (Jul 24, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> 1.  I own 6 Marriott and belong to 2 DC's and also have seen both sides:
> 
> 2. The timeshare concierge will arrange them for you...but there's no free lunch for such services at DC's either.



After TTT, I have new found respect for everyone and don't want to get into another barf-fest. 

1. All of us are still waiting for six months plus to know which 2 DCs you *belong to*. 

2. The two words "Timeshare" and "conciegre" do not exist together. I am willing to pay for service. Just do it was my motto. Only Four Seasons delivered in California.  Even HGVC(multiple locations) and Westin(Keirland, Cabo) fell short. The others did not know what I was talking about. Their definition of "spa" was the jacuzzi by the pool.


----------



## vivalour (Jul 24, 2008)

_PWRSHIFT_ wrote: 
"HCC took 5 years to sell that many memberships...and there are plenty who have sold many many less than that." 

Brian, as far as I can recall, HCC has been in business for about 2 1/2 years, not five.  And I think they have in the range of 360 members at this point. So let's stick to the facts.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 25, 2008)

vivalour - My point was, if it wasn't clear, that Marriott sold 300 people a Grande Lakes TS in one week and DC's can only dream of such success.   ER probably didn't sell 300 memberships last week either, and they're the biggest!

Bourne - I've got a trial stay very soon at a 3rd DC.  These test runs are fun.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 25, 2008)

Bourne said:


> After TTT, I have new found respect for everyone .


 
What's a TTT?


----------



## Bourne (Jul 25, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> What's a TTT?




Tootsie a.k.a. TradeToTravel


----------



## vivalour (Jul 25, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> vivalour - My point was, if it wasn't clear, that Marriott sold 300 people a Grande Lakes TS in one week and DC's can only dream of such success.   ER probably didn't sell 300 memberships last week either, and they're the biggest!
> 
> Bourne - I've got a trial stay very soon at a 3rd DC.  These test runs are fun.



Ok -- I see your point. But numbers tell only part of the story. Timeshares have been marketed for over 25 years, and those sold by developers generally involve a face-to-face transaction. The big, well known and trusted brands -- like Marriott & Disney -- are involved. DCs, on the other hand, are a new product, unknown to many people, commonly sold over the phone or the 'net by companies with an unknown track record.  

As well, I would guess that the sales cycles for each -- not to mention sales strategies -- are very different.  I've read that the typical lead time to closing a DC sale (for either PE or HCC, I don't recall now) is 90 days. I don't know about timeshares. 

Maybe I'm reinforcing YOUR point here, but since you're even considering joining a DC (or are have you actually joined???) you must find some advantages in DCs beyond the six Marriotts you own!


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jul 25, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> My dues for 10 weeks of Marriott timesharing was $2900 last year



How do you do that.....$290 per week?

I assume you are talking about 5 weeks and locking off, but that is still $580 per week and cheap. I think you still need to account for all II fees and lock off fees for the grand total.

But either way, your method is still much cheaper than any DC.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 25, 2008)

Oops.  Sorry about that ... $5450 a year for 6 weeks (2 Ft Laud, 3 Williamsburg, 1 Phoenix).  (will correct my post above) The split lockoff fee is $75 and only applies to 4 of the 6 weeks, if used to net out at 10 weeks a year.  Trading your week for points costs $104 plus MF.

Brian


----------



## vivalour (Jul 25, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> Oops.  Sorry about that ... $5450 a year for 6 weeks (2 Ft Laud, 3 Williamsburg, 1 Phoenix).  (will correct my post above) The split lockoff fee is $75 and only applies to 4 of the 6 weeks, if used to net out at 10 weeks a year.  Trading your week for points costs $104 plus MF.
> 
> Brian



BTW, another difference about most DC members is that we'd rather not put all this mental energy into vacation logistics. If HCC ever introduces a points/trading system anything like a timeshare, I'm cashing out.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 25, 2008)

vivalour said:


> .... If HCC ever introduces a points/trading system anything like a timeshare, I'm cashing out.


 
Marriott is a week based timeshare not points based like some timeshares. Non-Marriott owners sometimes get confused over all that they hear about Marriott Rewards Points and assume the timeshare division is points based, but it is not. 

www.marriottrewards.com

MR points are earned by staying in Marriott hotels or buying from Marriott partners such as FTD, Hertz, VISA, etc. Marriott owners who purchase directly from Marriott can turn their timeshares in for a fixed amount of points, usually every other year...110,000 pts is the norm but you still have to pay your week's maintenance and give up use of your week. 

You usually get a pile of MR points as an incentive to pay the higher price of buying direct instead of resale ... one TS they are selling right now comes with 2 million MR points (Grande Lakes Orlando) if you buy two weeks for $66,000 total. 

These MR trips can be fabulous for anywhere in the world to stay at some 2500 Marriotts. When you have enough points you can trade them in for travel ... such as two 270,000 air+hotel package (540,000 MR points total) to get *two* *business class flights to Europe with two weeks in the top Category 7 hotels*...ie London and Paris. They are very nice holidays, great hotels, and probably worth $12,000 or more is paying cash. Buying 2 of the above mentioned weeks would get you enough points for 4 two-week trips like this, probably worth $48,000 if you do it right ... making the purchase price of the timeshares very little.

I can't imagine how HCC could ever go points based, but they certainly couldn't go with Marriott Rewards as that is a totally different system to reward their best customers.

Brian


----------

