# Hilton Grand Vac. web says FULL but they're selling to Public on Hotels.com



## Ticked (Jun 24, 2010)

Recently my sister tried to book into the HGVC at the Flamingo in Vegas using the Hilton's on-line booking system.  The website said that there was no room during that period of time.  Then she looked on Hotels.com and found that she could have booked a studio for that same period of time if she wanted to PAY retail.  She has tons of platinum time and can't use it?  This is wrong on so many levels.  Hilton's response was: 

"In response to your inquiry, inventory belonging to the developer, Hilton Grand Vacations Company, may be rented or used to reduce the Home Owners Associations costs.  Once a property is sold out, you might notice a reduction on rental inventory segment and Club inventory necessarily increased - by the number of new Club members.  

Hilton Grand Vacations Club Suites may also be rented as owners choose to exchange their ClubPoints for a Club Partner Perk, HHonors Points, and other HGVClub options.  Revenue generated from rentals is used to suffice the exchange costs."  

I understand the logic in renting out empty rooms to the public - but NOT to the exclusion of HGVC members who want to rent rooms using their points.    I am not done with this yet and will be seeing a counsellor this summer to discuss.


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## toontoy (Jun 24, 2010)

With timesharing advanced planning is almost required. 

One thing you have to remember is that Hilton does still own some of the time at the resorts and can rent the rooms. Basically you would have to divide it and when the club weeks are full Hilton may be renting some weeks as well. I have sometimes found availability within the club when hilton.com says they are sold out. 

There are 2 other resorts and I have always been able to get into one of the resorts within 30 days, except for new years. I really don't think hilton holds inventory back.


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## ricoba (Jun 24, 2010)

Sadly, this is not an uncommon occurrence.

As suggested, booking early is the best option.

Speaking to the counselor this summer will not help you out too much.  They really are just salespeople, so sometimes (not always) they will say what is in their best interest and not necessarily your best interest.  

Good luck and enjoy, while I know you are frustrated, HGVC is really a great program once you learn the ins and outs of it.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 24, 2010)

Basically there are two pools of rooms available at most HGVC resorts. 

1. The units which have been sold to the owners at the TS.  These rooms are available for owners to reserve with their points.

2. Unsold units *&* units turned over to the hotel system in exchange for hotel points. These rooms are generally not available for owner's use but are sold for as much as possible to the general public.


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## jestme (Jun 24, 2010)

Bill4728 said:


> Basically there are two pools of rooms available at most HGVC resorts.
> 
> 1. The units which have been sold to the owners at the TS.  These rooms are available for owners to reserve with their points.
> 
> 2. Unsold units *&* units turned over to the hotel system in exchange for hotel points. These rooms are generally not available for owner's use but are sold for as much as possible to the general public.



Bill is bang on. The units you are seeing online are either owned by Hilton, or they have been exchanged back to HGVC for something else. More than likely, they own them. Think about it, if they didn't still own inventory, they wouldn't need to have any sales people. They can sell the nights they still own for whatever they want on the open market, and as luck would have it, the have a hotel division that does just that.
On the good side, sometimes, if they have too much inventory for a particular time frame, they can trade some back to HGVC in exchange for inventory for a later date, and those units will show up in HGVC, typically in "open season", so keep watching.


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## Janann (Jun 24, 2010)

*Same gripe here*

I've often wondered about the same thing.  I can appreciate the fact that HGVC stands to profit from selling unreserved 2 br units when the use date is six months out (as an example).  But I also feel that if an owner wants a 2 br unit for that date and it has not already been reserved by another owner, then an owner should be able to reserve it.  This would apply even if it means pulling the unit back from a travel agent like hotels.com.

It would be great to see a system that is similar to the frequent flyer program on Southwest Airlines.  Southwest promises that if there is an unsold seat available then someone with enough frequent flyer points can have the seat.  Frequent flyer seats on Southwest can never sell out.  Its an interesting comparison to think about. 

This is a very simplified comparison and I realize there are many reasons why the program will probably never change, but its an interesting concept.


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## Talent312 (Jun 25, 2010)

Another thing to think about is this: Every time a HGV'er uses their points to make a direct hotel reservation or converts points to HHonor points, those are points which won't be used in the HGVC system, and HGVC compensates HHotels for those points  with thequivilent access to its inventory.


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## wmmmmm (Jun 25, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Another thing to think about is this: Every time a HGV'er uses their points to make a direct hotel reservation or converts points to HHonor points, those are points which won't be used in the HGVC system, and HGVC compensates HHotels for those points  with thequivilent access to its inventory.


Actually, instead of "won't be used in the HGVC system", the better term is "can't be used in the HGVC system".  Once an owner trades his/her HGVC points for HH points for a hotel stay, those HGVC points belongs to Hilton and HGVC owners no longer have access to them.  Of course, what is the formula for points and when do Hilton takes them are good questions.  In another word, once an owner converts some points to HH, when does Hilton take them?  1 month, 6 months?  Also, if someone have points in Orlando, LV and Hawaii converts some points, which property does the points come out of?  The current system doesn't care nor does it track which points are from which resort.  Why does Hilton take Flamingo points vs HHV points?  I would like to know this "formula"


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## DEROS (Jun 25, 2010)

You can't be mad at Hilton for doing what some owners are doing.  Would it make you mad if I had reserve the dates you wanted, but I am willing to rent it to you for more than what my maintenance fee are?  If you answer is yes, well that is Capitalism for you.

One thing I learned about TS, if you want to get the date and room type, you need to plan 9 mths out.

Deros


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## SmithOp (Jun 25, 2010)

Ticked said:


> She has tons of platinum time and can't use it?



If she has "tons" of platinum time that she can't use, convert to HH points and then book the room with those points.

It sounds like she just needs help managing her TS points if she is making last minute bookings and has excess points unused.


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## kschauberger (Jun 25, 2010)

I have a ton of points and wanted to stay at the flamingo on two different occasions in the next year.  One time in October and the other in January.  Both times everyday is available except the firday in the reservation.  I have called the elite desk and they said that, the friday on both occasions are sold out by hilton and we can not make this reservation at the flamingo.  Instead I am going to be staying at the strip location instead.  I feel that there is something else going on here and it ticked me off a little.  I love staying at the Flamingo for its location and have stayed there the last 3 years about 5 times.  I don't like the Karen and the strip locations because I feel more isolated from the activity on the strip and to get anywhre takes much more effort.  Now I tried to make the January reservation in March which was the soonest I could make it.  I find it hard to believe that all the days around these two dates are not taken.  And No it is the second week of January.


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## Seth Nock (Jun 26, 2010)

Hilton allows owners to exchange for HHonors points, even when bought on resale.  Once exchanging for those points, they need to get revenue for those points that were used. They take a mix of weeks to rent out in exchange for those HHonors points.  They are not going to just take the least demanded weeks.  I think it is reasonable and am glad they allow resale buyers to exchange for points.


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## Seth Nock (Jun 26, 2010)

kschauberger said:


> I have a ton of points and wanted to stay at the flamingo on two different occasions in the next year.  One time in October and the other in January.  Both times everyday is available except the firday in the reservation.  I have called the elite desk and they said that, the friday on both occasions are sold out by hilton and we can not make this reservation at the flamingo.  Instead I am going to be staying at the strip location instead.  I feel that there is something else going on here and it ticked me off a little.  I love staying at the Flamingo for its location and have stayed there the last 3 years about 5 times.  I don't like the Karen and the strip locations because I feel more isolated from the activity on the strip and to get anywhre takes much more effort.  Now I tried to make the January reservation in March which was the soonest I could make it.  I find it hard to believe that all the days around these two dates are not taken.  And No it is the second week of January.



January is Silver season.  I have many buyers who purchased a 7000 point Platinum 2 bedroom and instead book the first 39 days of the year.  They do this to get away from the cold winters.  There are also people who will book 3 day weekends.  It makes sense that some of the January dates are unavailable.


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## travelguy (Jun 26, 2010)

Also remember that early January is CES in Las Vegas.  I have known many people that use their timeshares specifically to avoid the higher cost of hotels during that week.  The HGVC Hilton Hotel location is especially valuable for exhibitors since it's located at the convention center and you can avoid the horrendous transportation gridlock getting to/from CES.


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## Talent312 (Jun 26, 2010)

Its fairly simple:  If...
Dates are fixed, you'll need to be more flexible about where you go.
Dead-set on where, you need to be more flexible about when you go.

-- IOW, it helps to have a second+third choice for where or for when.
-- Even if you end up there, keep checking back, 'cuz you may find a
cancellation or add'l inventory is released, and thereby, luck out.

That is what happened with us one year with Cancun.
We couldn't get any dates that worked, so we looked elsewhere.
After ~ 3 mnths, exactly what we wanted suddenly appeared.  :whoopie:


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## rconner (Jun 28, 2010)

*HGVC not full*

We are currently in Las Vegas.   We also had difficulty reserving a room via the online reservation system - showed no availability at the HGVC Flamingo.  We lucked into a 5-day opening & grabbed it.   Once at the resort we were shocked to find that it was only about 60-70% full.    we have been going to HGVC Flamingo every year for over 15 years and this is the first time we have had no difficulty getting chairs at the pool - even cabanas were open.   Good indication that they have openings even though reservation system says they do not.   Food/Beverage mgr advised us to call in to reservations line rather than going by what is showing on the on-line system, however he also acknowledged that he thinks they are renting rooms at Flamingo and directing owners to the Strip property.    We spent 5 nights at Flamingo (LOVE IT) and 3 nights at Strip (wanted to try out the newest location).   Location for Strip property is lousy - not a good neighborhood for walking anywhere so plan on taking cabs.   Rooms much smaller than Flamingo (absolutely no closet space either), but pool and pool bar/restaurant are fantastic.   Our choice - Flamingo hands down.


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## MadDawg (Jul 5, 2010)

Does Hilton 'reserve' the room with their points just like a normal owner then release them within the same window to recover the points if someone doesn't get them via Hotels.com?

If they don't release the room within the normal cancellation window, they should forfeit those points just like a normal user.

I've often wondered who actually tracks and audit's Hilton's use of their 'points'.


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## night0wl (Jul 6, 2010)

So, if I'm an owner at one of these locations with a large # of rooms that are going out for nightly rental in a hotel program...do my maintenance fees cover the extra wear and tear nightly usage does on the interior finishing?

What about special assessments?  It seems inherently unfair for Hilton to pocket the revenue from nightly rental program but make the owners pay for special assessments when the furnishings and interior wear out and need upgrades prematurely.  

Any comments on whether this is the situation?


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## DEROS (Jul 7, 2010)

MadDawg said:


> Does Hilton 'reserve' the room with their points just like a normal owner then release them within the same window to recover the points if someone doesn't get them via Hotels.com?
> 
> If they don't release the room within the normal cancellation window, they should forfeit those points just like a normal user.
> 
> I've often wondered who actually tracks and audit's Hilton's use of their 'points'.



You have excellent questions.  As an additional question: does points expire at the end of the year?  How far out, mths, can they reserve?  I say 9mths. 

I would be very interested in the arrangement HGVC has with Hilton Hotels and the HHonors Program.

Deros


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## timeos2 (Jul 7, 2010)

Janann said:


> I've often wondered about the same thing.  I can appreciate the fact that HGVC stands to profit from selling unreserved 2 br units when the use date is six months out (as an example).  But I also feel that if an owner wants a 2 br unit for that date and it has not already been reserved by another owner, then an owner should be able to reserve it.  This would apply even if it means pulling the unit back from a travel agent like hotels.com.
> 
> It would be great to see a system that is similar to the frequent flyer program on Southwest Airlines.  Southwest promises that if there is an unsold seat available then someone with enough frequent flyer points can have the seat.  Frequent flyer seats on Southwest can never sell out.  Its an interesting comparison to think about.
> 
> This is a very simplified comparison and I realize there are many reasons why the program will probably never change, but its an interesting concept.



HGVC IS the owner of those weeks and they can and do choose to rent them rather than include them in the general use pool. That is their absolute right. The only use time you as an HGVC owner have a shot at is the time that has been sold into the club & not reserved by other owners.  There is nothing wrong or underhanded with what you are seeing. Once that inventory is sold to a new, individual owner it will be part of the general pool but that pool will also have an additional owner to compete for reservations along with you and all the others. There is nothing for free unless the developer decides to seed the pool with additional time (and at their expense) as a sales tool. They haven't done that and choose instead to rent it for what they can get & generate leads in that way.  The advice to plan earlier or to take advantage of what is usually a discounted rate for the time at this late date.


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## MadDawg (Jul 9, 2010)

That makes sense for units Hilton owns before entering the timeshare pool.  Once a unit has been sold and becomes part of the pool, even if Hilton buys it back on ROFR it should be considered a resale just as if any other unit was sold on the resale market.  

The question is how many of the Flamingo units are still unsold development property?  I believe that the Flamingo doesn't have any original unsold units left.  That means Hilton should have to use it's pool points to rent units there, and should be bound by the same restrictions on those points as other owners.


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