# MVC not taking Hyatt/Welk under its umbrella



## Tenga

CEO Stephen Weisz of MVC announced on conference call last week in July under the merger he's not going to integrate Hyatt into MVC! No surprise there! What is new news, is the long term licensing agreement he got bent over the barrel with and now he has to choke on it by bringing the Welk properties up to Hyatt standards in order to brand former Welk resorts and place a Hyatt reregistered name on it! If Hyatt says xzy resort does not meet its standards then MVC is going to open its wallet and spend the money to bring it up to Hyatts requirement's!

This is not only going to be painful for MVC, but its not going to happen over night either.  FYI was able to ascertain that the platform is complete. It has been developed that will allow club use between Hyatt and New Hyatt "Welk" resorts those that "meet" Hyatt standards.  Their keeping it tight lipped on which resort's made the cut and which did not!  Only thing left to assign is point value for nightly stay. Set to begin reservations come Jan 1, 2022 all according to MVC owner services.

Best,
Tenga


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## dioxide45

Tenga said:


> CEO Stephen Weisz of MVC announced on conference call last week in July under the merger he's not going to integrate Hyatt into MVC! No surprise there! What is of news is the long term licensing agreement he got bent over the barrel and now has to choke on it by bringing the Welk properties up to Hyatt standards in order to brand former Welk resorts and place a Hyatt reregistered name on it! If Hyatt says xzy resort does not meet its standards then MVC is going to open its wallet at spend the money to bring it up to Hyatts requirement's!
> 
> This is not only going to be painful for MVC, but its not going got happen over night either.  FYI was able to ascertain that the platform is complete. It has been developed that will allow club use between Hyatt and New Hyatt "Welk" resorts those that "meet" Hyatt standards.  Their keeping it tight lipped on which resort's made the cut and which did not!  Only thing left to assign is point value for nightly stay. Set to begin reservations come Jan 1, 2022 all according to MVC owner services.
> 
> Best,
> Tenga


I suspect it will mostly be the owners paying to bring certain resorts up to standards. They will pressure the boards to spend the money or they will drop them from Welk resorts and they will simply become independants. Marriott has done this in the past with several of their resorts. The boards and owners didn't want to pay to bring them up to standard, so they were dropped. It is possible that VAC does work out some kind of cost sharing arrangement with the individual properties, but most of the costs will be paid for by the owners in higher reserve funding.


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## bizaro86

Tenga said:


> CEO Stephen Weisz of MVC announced on conference call last week in July under the merger he's not going to integrate Hyatt into MVC! No surprise there! What is of news is the long term licensing agreement he got bent over the barrel and now has to choke on it by bringing the Welk properties up to Hyatt standards in order to brand former Welk resorts and place a Hyatt reregistered name on it! If Hyatt says xzy resort does not meet its standards then MVC is going to open its wallet at spend the money to bring it up to Hyatts requirement's!
> 
> This is not only going to be painful for MVC, but its not going got happen over night either.  FYI was able to ascertain that the platform is complete. It has been developed that will allow club use between Hyatt and New Hyatt "Welk" resorts those that "meet" Hyatt standards.  Their keeping it tight lipped on which resort's made the cut and which did not!  Only thing left to assign is point value for nightly stay. Set to begin reservations come Jan 1, 2022 all according to MVC owner services.
> 
> Best,
> Tenga



They'll open owner's wallets to pay for it. With them voting the trust points it won't be hard to get the HOAs to go along.


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## dsmrp

Hyatt will let the Portfolio owners intermingle with Welk. Interesting to see 
when they'll let Welk owners reserve non portfolio HRC units.


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## CPNY

@travelhacker would love to hear your thoughts on this.


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## TravelTime

I am so bummed that MVC is not integrating Hyatt/Welk into the combined new program. I still can‘t believe MVC can’t find a way to re-brand Hyatt and bring all the properties into MVC. If MVC is focusing on selling points, they will be much more successful with one mega program than with two or three separate programs.


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## dioxide45

TravelTime said:


> I am so bummed that MVC is not integrating Hyatt/Welk into the combined new program. I still can‘t believe MVC can’t find a way to re-brand Hyatt and bring all the properties into MVC. If MVC is focusing on selling points, they will be much more successful with one mega program than with two or three separate programs.


From what I understand the licence agreement that ILG made with Hyatt is pretty long term. I suspect backing out could cost a bundle. Hyatt also makes money from the affiliation in both licencing fees and selling points out of its World of Hyatt program to VAC to offer to owners in the way of tour incentives. I am not sure if Hyatt owners can convert weeks to WOrld of Hyatt points, but that would be another source of revenue for Hyatt.


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## sjsharkie

TravelTime said:


> I am so bummed that MVC is not integrating Hyatt/Welk into the combined new program. I still can‘t believe MVC can’t find a way to re-brand Hyatt and bring all the properties into MVC. If MVC is focusing on selling points, they will be much more successful with one mega program than with two or three separate programs.


I love it.  I'm not interested in Hyatt being folded into Marriott's program as a Hyatt owner.  As an HRC owner, the program works well for me, and I don't need any changes that would introduce more demand from other programs.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how Welk is integrated.  I'm not really interested in their properties, except for Northstar -- but the maintenance fees for that property are crazy high so not sure if this will have an impact on the point structure in the future.


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## TravelTime

Does anyone know why Hyatt bought Welk if Welk is not up to standards?


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## dioxide45

TravelTime said:


> Does anyone know why Hyatt bought Welk if Welk is not up to standards?


I think some of the properties are up to standard. Some may just need a little work. Others may need more. I think they deemed it a decent fit to integrate.


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## Mongoose

dioxide45 said:


> I suspect it will mostly be the owners paying to bring certain resorts up to standards. They will pressure the boards to spend the money or they will drop them from Welk resorts and they will simply become independants. Marriott has done this in the past with several of their resorts. The boards and owners didn't want to pay to bring them up to standard, so they were dropped. It is possible that VAC does work out some kind of cost sharing arrangement with the individual properties, but most of the costs will be paid for by the owners in higher reserve funding.


It would be the Welk owners that would have to pay the price to join Hyatt.  I have heard that there are some nice Welk locations out there.


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## Mongoose

TravelTime said:


> Does anyone know why Hyatt bought Welk if Welk is not up to standards?


Hyatt didn't buy them MVC did.  They probably got it at a fire sale price.  I hope they are picky.  I don't want to see happen to Hyatt what happened to HICV when they bought Silverleaf.


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## Mongoose

TravelTime said:


> I am so bummed that MVC is not integrating Hyatt/Welk into the combined new program. I still can‘t believe MVC can’t find a way to re-brand Hyatt and bring all the properties into MVC. If MVC is focusing on selling points, they will be much more successful with one mega program than with two or three separate programs.


I'm thrilled.  I would hate to have Hyatt be gobbled up by MVC.  Its still possible that at some point it may be spun off.  I have no knowledge of it, but it might be easier for MVC to get rid of Hyatt than deal with all the potential turf wars.


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## Mongoose

Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corp (VAC) Q2 2021 Earnings Call Transcript (msn.com)


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## sjsharkie

TravelTime said:


> Does anyone know why Hyatt bought Welk if Welk is not up to standards?


Northstar is definitely up to standards as of the last time I visited -- 2 years ago.  Rooms are huge and upscale -- nicer than High Sierra as a property in a similar location (they are ~20 mins apart).

But that was originally a Hyatt developed property.  So, not sure about other locations.

-ryan


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## dioxide45

It wouldn't be hard to get many of the properties up to the standard of the lowest level Hyatt Residence Club resorts. We went to Windward Pointe and it was no better than a Marriott. I would even say a notch below.


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## travelhacker

CPNY said:


> @travelhacker would love to hear your thoughts on this.


I was disappointed by this. There isn't a whole lot of overlap between Marriott locations and Hyatt and I think all of the Hyatt locations would be of interest to Marriott so they would have complemented the MVC portfolio pretty well.

However, it wasn't unexpected. As others have pointed out, it's a tricky situation given that Hyatt Hotels and Marriott Hotels are competitors. Now that Marriott Hotels owns Starwood, it was a no brainer for MVC to purchase Interval and get their own exchange company and integrate Starwood / Vistana. Hyatt had to have been an afterthought, and since the Timeshare industry's lifeblood is new sales, I think it made sense to purchase Welk to expand the footprint and increase their sales capacity for it as a standalone product.


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## Mongoose

So I just checked the resorts out on Tripadvisor.  The guest pics often create a more accurate representation of the resorts. Very unscientific....  I see 4 that could easily be Hyatt RC's, 1 very close to a Hyatt and 3 that will need a lot of work. Overall I'm impressed.  I might see if I can pick up a deal somewhere.  Below are my estimates and links to Tripadvisor for reference.

Looks like a 1 week 2 BR will be about 240,000 points (Platinum Weeks) and MFs of $1600.  Probably on par with many Hyatt Gold or Platinum  weeks.  So maybe an exchange rate of 120-133 Welk to 1 HRC. Some of the resorts appear to be Platinum weeks only. Northstar can go up to 900,000 points for week for a 5 BR about 7500 HRC points (WOW!).

Branson Hotel - Midscale Property - Think Wyndham/WM
WELK RESORTS BRANSON HOTEL $62 ($̶9̶6̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - MO - Tripadvisor

Branson Lodges - Upper Midscale - Think HICV
LODGES AT TIMBER RIDGE BY WELK RESORTS $90 ($̶9̶6̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Lodge Reviews - Branson, MO - Tripadvisor

San Diego - Upper Midscale - Maybe Hyatt RC
WELK RESORTS SAN DIEGO $99 ($̶2̶4̶2̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Escondido, CA - Tripadvisor

Northstar - Upsacle - Think... Hyatt RC
NORTHSTAR LODGE BY WELK RESORTS $155 ($̶1̶9̶4̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Hotel Reviews - Truckee, CA - Tripadvisor

Palm Springs - Midscale - Think older Sheraton
WELK RESORTS PALM SPRINGS $104 ($̶1̶3̶4̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Cathedral City, California Desert, CA - Tripadvisor

Cabo - Upper Upscale - Think JW or Ritz
WELK RESORTS SIRENA DEL MAR $129 ($̶1̶6̶1̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Cabo San Lucas, Los Cabos - Tripadvisor

Tahoe - Upper Upsacle - Think.... Hyatt RC
ONE VILLAGE PLACE BY WELK RESORTS - Prices & Hotel Reviews (Truckee, CA) - Tripadvisor

Breckinridge - Upper Upscale - Hyatt RC
WELK RESORTS THE RANAHAN, BRECKENRIDGE $109 ($̶2̶6̶7̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Hotel Reviews - CO - Tripadvisor


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## mjm1

We used to own at Welk in Escondido, converted to their points program, and eventually sold them when we decided to focus on MVC, Vistana and most recently HGVC and Hyatt.

My experience with Welk is dated, but the resorts that could fit well are Welk in Escondido (especially the Mountain Villas section), Sirena Del Mar in Cabo (on the corridor), Northstar (the original units built by Hyatt are outstanding and Welk built additional units/buildings), and Branson. I don’t see how the Palm Springs (actually in Cathedral City) could be brought up to Hyatt standards. I am not sure of any other resorts in their system. Their sales team would also need retraining as they are terrible (even compared to other systems.)

That said, we bought into Hyatt (Sedona) to use it and trade within the Hyatt system. I don’t see us leveraging the Welk resorts even if available to us.

Best regards.

Mike


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## cfabar1

Glad to hear Hyatt will not be integrated into MVC.  That would be the end of the program in my opinion.


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## Sugarcubesea

cfabar1 said:


> Glad to hear Hyatt will not be integrated into MVC.  That would be the end of the program in my opinion.



I'm also glad Hyatt will not be integrated into MVC.  I have really enjoyed my ownership of this brand and have used it to internally exchange to other Hyatt's.


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## bogey21

My guess is that the good stuff will be folded into MVC somewhere down the line.  It may be years from now but I can see it happening...

George


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## GetawaysRus

So will the Marriott timeshare salespeople stop talking about a Hyatt integration into MVC now? And that MVC, through its purchase of Interval International, is simply going to take over the timeshare world?

That's been one of the top whoppers I have heard for the past few years when I have agreed to attend a Marriott presentation. And now it turns out that I didn't need to buy more Marriott DC points so that I could more easily trade into Hyatt resorts! What a surprise!


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## remowidget

TravelTime said:


> I am so bummed that MVC is not integrating Hyatt/Welk into the combined new program. I still can‘t believe MVC can’t find a way to re-brand Hyatt and bring all the properties into MVC. If MVC is focusing on selling points, they will be much more successful with one mega program than with two or three separate programs.


IMHO I think it is doable with Vistana and MVC because each already has reciprocal agreements with Marriott Hotels. Hyatt is a separate system. The combination could happen if Marriott Hotels purchases Hyatt.


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## CPNY

Lucky for the Hyatt owners. Those of us on the Vistana side are not that lucky.


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## Mongoose

CPNY said:


> Lucky for the Hyatt owners. Those of us on the Vistana side are not that lucky.


What do you mean?  You don’t like MVC taking over vistana?


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## vacationtime1

CPNY said:


> Lucky for the Hyatt owners. Those of us on the Vistana side are not that lucky.


The "winners" here may be Welk owners who may get access to Hyatt inventory.

Unless MVC sells Hyatt to Diamond/Apollo.


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## CPNY

Mongoose said:


> What do you mean?  You don’t like MVC taking over vistana?


Access to Marriott resorts isn’t appealing to everyone. Some like the VSN as it is and do not need anymore competition getting into resorts we enjoy. Take a look at the Marriott surf or ocean club in Aruba. It’s hard enough to get in for Marriott owners now, I can’t see vistana owners having easy access. Of course, unless we spend $50,000 for Marriott points, even then it’s not easy lol.


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## CPNY

vacationtime1 said:


> The "winners" here may be Welk owners who may get access to Hyatt inventory.
> 
> Unless MVC sells Hyatt to Diamond/Apollo.


Didn’t HGVC buy diamond?


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## Tucsonadventurer

CPNY said:


> Lucky for the Hyatt owners. Those of us on the Vistana side are not that lucky.


I agree. I love that Hyatt properties are in general smaller and staff are more personable


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## Mongoose

CPNY said:


> Didn’t HGVC buy diamond?


Yes.  The deal just closed last week.


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## CPNY

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I agree. I love that Hyatt properties are in general smaller and staff are more personable


it’s like Hyatt is an IPA from a micro brewery and Marriott is Bud light.


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## dannybaker

We own a total of three weeks at Welk all are two bedroom lock off units that I believe equal 300k Welk points. We use to own one week on Christmas in the old two bedroom units, favorite vacation spot every year with the family. We honestly have no clue what will happen with our weeks going forward. We rarely stay at Welk anymore unless we get an extra vacation and currently exchange into RCI always. The Welk resort use to have a great exchange rate with RCI but to be honest it sucks. Maintenance fees have gone from $800 to $1380 in five years. Exchange value has also dropped from 54 tpu to 29 tpu. Welk also pays our RCI fees every year. Welk has traded with both II and RCI for as long as I can remember. In fact that was a deciding factor when we originally bought 12 years ago. Should we off load now or wait and see?


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## Mongoose

dannybaker said:


> We own a total of three weeks at Welk all are two bedroom lock off units that I believe equal 300k Welk points. We use to own one week on Christmas in the old two bedroom units, favorite vacation spot every year with the family. We honestly have no clue what will happen with our weeks going forward. We rarely stay at Welk anymore unless we get an extra vacation and currently exchange into RCI always. The Welk resort use to have a great exchange rate with RCI but to be honest it sucks. Maintenance fees have gone from $800 to $1380 in five years. Exchange value has also dropped from 54 tpu to 29 tpu. Welk also pays our RCI fees every year. Welk has traded with both II and RCI for as long as I can remember. In fact that was a deciding factor when we originally bought 12 years ago. Should we off load now or wait and see?


Do you ever use their affiliate suites?  Seems like a neat option.


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## CPNY

dannybaker said:


> We own a total of three weeks at Welk all are two bedroom lock off units that I believe equal 300k Welk points. We use to own one week on Christmas in the old two bedroom units, favorite vacation spot every year with the family. We honestly have no clue what will happen with our weeks going forward. We rarely stay at Welk anymore unless we get an extra vacation and currently exchange into RCI always. The Welk resort use to have a great exchange rate with RCI but to be honest it sucks. Maintenance fees have gone from $800 to $1380 in five years. Exchange value has also dropped from 54 tpu to 29 tpu. Welk also pays our RCI fees every year. Welk has traded with both II and RCI for as long as I can remember. In fact that was a deciding factor when we originally bought 12 years ago. Should we off load now or wait and see?


Wait and see. If the resort you own is deemed to meet Hyatt standards then you may be enjoying nicer Hyatt resorts soon. If not, you’re no worse off than you are today.


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## Tenga

dannybaker said:


> We own a total of three weeks at Welk all are two bedroom lock off units that I believe equal 300k Welk points. We use to own one week on Christmas in the old two bedroom units, favorite vacation spot every year with the family. We honestly have no clue what will happen with our weeks going forward. We rarely stay at Welk anymore unless we get an extra vacation and currently exchange into RCI always. The Welk resort use to have a great exchange rate with RCI but to be honest it sucks. Maintenance fees have gone from $800 to $1380 in five years. Exchange value has also dropped from 54 tpu to 29 tpu. Welk also pays our RCI fees every year. Welk has traded with both II and RCI for as long as I can remember. In fact that was a deciding factor when we originally bought 12 years ago. Should we off load now or wait and see?


I think you answered your own question! Pretty much guaranteed your MF's with this merger and not going to decrease!  Re-sales are the strongest in years and at the present time not much inventory on the market compared pre-Covid for all TS across the board.  

Hyatt trade's in II.  My understanding Welk has 3 years left on contract with RCI?  

Who know's what the clown driving the MVC ship next steeps is.  Honestly believe he and the board spent $$$ 485 million of Marriott "money"  for Welk to hang a Hyatt sign on and not integrate into the Marriott family lead's me to believe  that MVC is looking for a buyer and not a stand alone club.  No way to upsell to MVC members now that the cat is out of the bag.  Sorry Marriott folks, your going to get behind Welk members if you want to enjoy a Hyatt stay and only whats available to every other  member of the Interval International family for your Hyatt stay.


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## Mongoose

Tenga said:


> I think you answered your own question! Pretty much guaranteed your MF's with this merger and not going to decrease!  Re-sales are the strongest in years and at the present time not much inventory on the market compared pre-Covid for all TS across the board.
> 
> Hyatt trade's in II.  My understanding Welk has 3 years left on contract with RCI?
> 
> Who know's what the clown driving the MVC ship next steeps is.  Honestly believe he and the board spent $$$ 485 million of Marriott "money"  for Welk to hang a Hyatt sign on and not integrate into the Marriott family lead's me to believe  that MVC is looking for a buyer and not a stand alone club.  No way to upsell to MVC members now that the cat is out of the bag.  Sorry Marriott folks, your going to get behind Welk members if you want to enjoy a Hyatt stay and only whats available to every other  member of the Interval International family for your Hyatt stay.


HICV and WM exchange in both II and RCI.  Welk/Hyatt can do the same.


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## Mongoose

Interesting that Hyatt Northstar and Welk Northstar are similar construction and right next to each other. Someone said the Welk was built as a Hyatt.  The street numbers are 970 and 1000.  I imagine they will join them into a single resort with different phases.


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## ivywag

Mongoose said:


> Interesting that Hyatt Northstar and Welk Northstar are similar construction and right next to each other. Someone said the Welk was built as a Hyatt.  The street numbers are 970 and 1000.  I imagine they will join them into a single resort with different phases.


Hyatt Northstar was built first and sold some units.  The entire remaining property was then sold to Welk and Welk finished out the resort.  To this day, those first Hyatt-sold units are part of HRC.  The remainder are Welk.  Hyatt trades through II.  Welk, as I understand it, through RCI although they can choose to trade individually through II.


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## AJCts411

I'm curious as to what would prevent Marriot from not rebranding Welk properties to Hyatt. Could Marriott just create a platform to trade HRC and Welk, using points conversions and II?  Where HRC and Welk are "members" of this platform?


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## dioxide45

AJCts411 said:


> I'm curious as to what would prevent Marriot from not rebranding Welk properties to Hyatt. Could Marriott just create a platform to trade HRC and Welk, using points conversions and II?  Where HRC and Welk are "members" of this platform?


They could do that. But I think there are better synergies with having a single brand. It is cleaner and more professional and one can tout more locations. The only thing preventing rebranding is Hyatt Hotels and their approval of rebranding the resorts.


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## Mongoose

dioxide45 said:


> They could do that. But I think there are better synergies with having a single brand. It is cleaner and more professional and one can tout more locations. The only thing preventing rebranding is Hyatt Hotels and their approval of rebranding the resorts.


Agree.  The issue will be if  one or more of the locations are simply unable to meet Hyatt brand standards.  Palm Springs comes to mind.  There will be some natural, competitive animosity between Hyatt and MVC.  They are going to hold them to their standards.


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## VacationForever

Are Welk owners on the hook to pay for resorts updating to bring up to Hyatt level?  The Palm Spring buildings are very sad.  The original Escondido section is filthy and falling apart.


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## Mongoose

VacationForever said:


> Are Welk owners on the hook to pay for resorts updating to bring up to Hyatt level?  The Palm Spring buildings are very sad.  The original Escondido section is filthy and falling apart.


That would be difficult and probably bring about a lawsuit. Especially if they came out with a "Special Assessment".   I would think that rebranding costs would need to be covered by the developer. Of course it gets messy trying to determine what are routine updates vs rebranding costs.  Welk already pays what I consider a premium for MFs.


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## dioxide45

Mongoose said:


> That would be difficult and probably bring about a lawsuit. Especially if they came out with a "Special Assessment".   I would think that rebranding costs would need to be covered by the developer. Of course it gets messy trying to determine what are routine updates vs rebranding costs.  Welk already pays what I consider a premium for MFs.


When Diamond (DRI) started buying up small resorts and independants, they started increasing MFs to bring resorts up to better standards. I suspect some level of improvements will be born by the owners (because they will benefit from the better accommodations) and also by the developer. For sold out resorts, I suspect most if not all costs will be covered by owners. If owners don't like it, they can go independant. They don't need to stay with Welk/Hyatt. The decision is up to the BOD.


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## Mongoose

dioxide45 said:


> When Diamond (DRI) started buying up small resorts and independants, they started increasing MFs to bring resorts up to better standards. I suspect some level of improvements will be born by the owners (because they will benefit from the better accommodations) and also by the developer. For sold out resorts, I suspect most if not all costs will be covered by owners. If owners don't like it, they can go independant. They don't need to stay with Welk/Hyatt. The decision is up to the BOD.


Oh, I know.  I used to have a Mystic Dunes which I loved.  Ended up selling it.  DRI has questionable tactics (at best).  The difference here is the contract issues between MVC and Hyatt.  Hyatt may not allow that if they feel it could hurt their "brand reputation".


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## bizaro86

Mongoose said:


> What do you mean?  You don’t like MVC taking over vistana?



The Marriott hotel company absolutely wrecked the SPG program when they took over Starwood (imo).

While MVC hasn't done that to Vistana yet, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't. I could absolutely see them wrecking VSN somehow, even if they leave it existing, to try and push people to upgrade to DC points (or a new combined currency).


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## dioxide45

Mongoose said:


> Oh, I know.  I used to have a Mystic Dunes which I loved.  Ended up selling it.  DRI has questionable tactics (at best).  The difference here is the contract issues between MVC and Hyatt.  Hyatt may not allow that if they feel it could hurt their "brand reputation".


Not sure what exactly is in that agreement that was ultimately made between ILG and Hyatt, but I suspect that for the most part Hyatt just wants to make sure that the rooms and resorts meet their standards. I am not sure they care who pays for the upgrades. It will come down to how much, if anything, Marriott Vacations Worldwide is willing to pay and how much they can force the owners to pay.


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## Tenga

AJCts411 said:


> I'm curious as to what would prevent Marriot from not rebranding Welk properties to Hyatt. Could Marriott just create a platform to trade HRC and Welk, using points conversions and II?  Where HRC and Welk are "members" of this platform?


Welk is gone! It doesn't exist any longer. 

Any resorts that didn't meet the requirements are the problem of MVC not HRC.  Its there $$$ and there business to run as they see fit!

MVC created one platform that allows a former Welk owner to either trade into the HRC  resort's post-merger or stay in the now re-branded resort's that fall  in the Hyatt family and the same for Hyatt members they can trade into the new branded resorts that make the cut.

The point value for nightly stays has not been announced. It is a club use platform totally dependent on how many club points you have and here is the key word   "availability"


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## Mongoose

Tenga said:


> Welk is gone! It doesn't exist any longer.
> 
> Any resorts that didn't meet the requirements are the problem of MVC not HRC.  Its there $$$ and there business to run as they see fit!
> 
> MVC created one platform that allows a former Welk owner to either trade into the HRC  resort's post-merger or stay in the now re-branded resort's that fall  in the Hyatt family and the same for Hyatt members they can trade into the new branded resorts that make the cut.
> 
> The point value for nightly stays has not been announced. It is a club use platform totally dependent on how many club points you have and here is the key word   "availability"


You sure speak with a lot of authority.  Welk is still selling Welk points.  In fact they exceeded their target numbers last quarter by $14M.   BTW, they won't be HRC, they will be HPP.  MVC has not done "weeks" for some time.  HRC will remain as is, and Welk will probably be used to bolster HPP which was only able to expand on unsold and repurchased/returned HRC units.  Most the resorts will probably have an easy rebranding.  Palm Springs and Branson will be more difficult.


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## Tenga

Mongoose said:


> You sure speak with a lot of authority.  Welk is still selling Welk points.  In fact they exceeded their target numbers last quarter by $14M.   BTW, they won't be HRC, they will be HPP.  MVC has not done "weeks" for some time.  HRC will remain as is, and Welk will probably be used to bolster HPP which was only able to expand on unsold and repurchased/returned HRC units.  Most the resorts will probably have an easy rebranding.  Palm Springs and Branson will be more difficult.




Goose you seem like a bright individual, please call owners services  3 times on 3 dates as I did and ask the same question "What is new with the Welk merger" That my friend is limit of my authority. I got the same response all three times so MS has been given the green light to read the cue card verbatim as no deviation was said and I recieved  same response all three time's.

That and a published announcement from a MVC conference call. The one and only thing I have ever speculated on has been what is Stephen Weisz end game with the merger of two clubs into one?  I have zero knowledge of what is to become of the new merger other then what was reported in the call.  A stand alone with no integration into the Marriott system.  It might not be enough for you but to me that = sale!

I'll let owners services crap in your corn flakes regarding you assertion of the new owners from Welk not being able to access HRC vs. HPP.  You'll enjoy that conversation with them and that ought to serve as a wake up call to ya.  It was too me!

I'll give you a "hint". Ready " if the resort shows available and a member has the points they can book it "period" after the 6mo home reservation period ends for home resort and not taken. Any owner Welk/HRC there now one in the same stating Jan 1 2022 can use their points just like you can in CUP and thats the whole new platform use your week or compete with the merged club for CUP points booking. I didn't even bother or care to ask about current HPP that was enough for me that Welk will access and compete with CUP weeks in the platform.  Sorry for the bad news!  I think it suck's! Maybe thats my discontent for Weisz destroying a good working TS system. 
Best,
Tenga


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## Mongoose

Tenga said:


> Goose you see like a bright individual, please call owners services  3 times on 3 dates as I did and ask the same question "What is new with the Welk merger" That my friend is limit of my authority. I got the same response all three times so MS has been given the green light to read the cue card verbatim as no deviation was said and I recieved  same response all three time's.
> 
> That and a published announcement from a MVC conference call. The one and only thing I have ever speculated on has been what is Stephen Weisz end game with the merger of two clubs into one?  I have zero knowledge of what is to become of the new merger other then what was reported in the call.  A stand alone with no integration into the Marriott system.  It might not be enough for you but to me that = sale!
> 
> I'll let owners services crap in your corn flakes regarding you assertion of the new owners from Welk not being able to access HRC vs. HPP.  You'll enjoy that conversation with them and that ought to serve as a wake up call to ya.  It was too me!
> 
> I'll give you a "hint". Ready " if the resort shows available and a member has the points they can book it "period" after the 6mo home reservation period ends for home resort and not taken. Any owner Welk/HRC there now one in the same stating Jan 1 2022 can use their points just like you can in CUP and thats the whole new platform use your week or compete with the merged club for CUP points booking. I didn't even bother or care to ask about what about current HPP that was enough for me that Welk will access and compete with CUP weeks in the platform.  Sorry for the bad news!  I think it suck's! Maybe thats my discontent for Weisz destroying a good working TS system.
> Best,
> Tenga


I’m going to be optimistic.  Hell the world could end before they integrate.


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## Tenga

Considering that Marriott Vac Club has owned HRC since April 2018 and its now Aug 2021   Welk got fast tracked for a reason! MVC did in less then a year.


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## tahoeJoe

Has anyone stayed at Welk Palm Springs? Does that resort meet Hyatt's standards?


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## VacationForever

tahoeJoe said:


> Has anyone stayed at Welk Palm Springs? Does that resort meet Hyatt's standards?


Awful place.  Leaky roof and ceiling, carpet mildewy.  Nasty water dripped onto our heads when we walked into the room after we checked in.  They relocated us to another room.  No drippy ceiling but room was still old and mildewy.


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## Mongoose

tahoeJoe said:


> Has anyone stayed at Welk Palm Springs? Does that resort meet Hyatt's standards?


See post 18 for a link and my opinion.  Not up to standards.  Probably the lowest quality in the system.


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## Sapper

Mongoose said:


> So I just checked the resorts out on Tripadvisor.  The guest pics often create a more accurate representation of the resorts. Very unscientific....  I see 4 that could easily be Hyatt RC's, 1 very close to a Hyatt and 3 that will need a lot of work. Overall I'm impressed.  I might see if I can pick up a deal somewhere.  Below are my estimates and links to Tripadvisor for reference.
> 
> Looks like a 1 week 2 BR will be about 240,000 points (Platinum Weeks) and MFs of $1600.  Probably on par with many Hyatt Gold or Platinum  weeks.  So maybe an exchange rate of 120-133 Welk to 1 HRC. Some of the resorts appear to be Platinum weeks only. Northstar can go up to 900,000 points for week for a 5 BR about 7500 HRC points (WOW!).
> 
> Branson Hotel - Midscale Property - Think Wyndham/WM
> WELK RESORTS BRANSON HOTEL $62 ($̶9̶6̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - MO - Tripadvisor
> 
> Branson Lodges - Upper Midscale - Think HICV
> LODGES AT TIMBER RIDGE BY WELK RESORTS $90 ($̶9̶6̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Lodge Reviews - Branson, MO - Tripadvisor
> 
> San Diego - Upper Midscale - Maybe Hyatt RC
> WELK RESORTS SAN DIEGO $99 ($̶2̶4̶2̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Escondido, CA - Tripadvisor
> 
> Northstar - Upsacle - Think... Hyatt RC
> NORTHSTAR LODGE BY WELK RESORTS $155 ($̶1̶9̶4̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Hotel Reviews - Truckee, CA - Tripadvisor
> 
> Palm Springs - Midscale - Think older Sheraton
> WELK RESORTS PALM SPRINGS $104 ($̶1̶3̶4̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Cathedral City, California Desert, CA - Tripadvisor
> 
> Cabo - Upper Upscale - Think JW or Ritz
> WELK RESORTS SIRENA DEL MAR $129 ($̶1̶6̶1̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Resort Reviews - Cabo San Lucas, Los Cabos - Tripadvisor
> 
> Tahoe - Upper Upsacle - Think.... Hyatt RC
> ONE VILLAGE PLACE BY WELK RESORTS - Prices & Hotel Reviews (Truckee, CA) - Tripadvisor
> 
> Breckinridge - Upper Upscale - Hyatt RC
> WELK RESORTS THE RANAHAN, BRECKENRIDGE $109 ($̶2̶6̶7̶) - Updated 2021 Prices & Hotel Reviews - CO - Tripadvisor



These are the fully owned Welk properties. No one seems to be discussing all of the different shared properties (ex, Four Seasons Aviara) that are in their point program.  What ends up happening with them?  They are specifically listed in the Welk offer documentation (https://welkresorts-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/2020-02/public-report.pdf), so not easily removed. What if a shared property does not meet Hyatt standards?  For example, Poste Montane, they have one presidential unit/week. If that one unit were to fail to meet standards, who pays to bring it up to standards?  What about common areas, the main area reeks of mold because skiers have been dragging their wet skis in and dripping on the carpet. Who is paying to maintain standards at a shared resort?  Maybe Hyatt only cares about the standards of properties their name is attached to, so what I’m discussing is a non issue. Or, maybe Hyatt cares about any unit held in the system as a whole (their name is attached to the whole system), in which case, I think things will be more complex.


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## VacationForever

Sapper said:


> These are the fully owned Welk properties. No one seems to be discussing all of the different shared properties (ex, Four Seasons Aviara) that are in their point program.  What ends up happening with them?  They are specifically listed in the Welk offer documentation (https://welkresorts-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/2020-02/public-report.pdf), so not easily removed. What if a shared property does not meet Hyatt standards?  For example, Poste Montane, they have one presidential unit/week. If that one unit were to fail to meet standards, who pays to bring it up to standards?  What about common areas, the main area reeks of mold because skiers have been dragging their wet skis in and dripping on the carpet. Who is paying to maintain standards at a shared resort?  Maybe Hyatt only cares about the standards of properties their name is attached to, so what I’m discussing is a non issue. Or, maybe Hyatt cares about any unit held in the system as a whole (their name is attached to the whole system), in which case, I think things will be more complex.


From my understanding, "shared property" is just several desirable "other brands" timeshare properties where Welk bought a few weeks and then make them bookable using Welk points.  There is no real affiliation whatsoever.

MVC will just sell off those timeshare weeks and be done.


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## Sapper

VacationForever said:


> From my understanding, "shared property" is just several desirable "other brands" timeshare properties where Welk bought a few weeks and then make them bookable using Welk points.  There is no real affiliation whatsoever.
> 
> MVC will just sell off those timeshare weeks and be done.



MVC can’t just sell them off, they comprise the underlying units of their points program.


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## vacationtime1

Sapper said:


> MVC can’t just sell them off, they comprise the underlying units of their points program.


I believe the MVC trust documents permit the trustees to substitute other comparable properties, in which case the trust could sell those and add other units.  Same result if the units are in the system by a contractual booking arrangement.

But that assumes those units are held by a trust rather than as deeded weeks.  If the latter, it would be a potentially insurmountable problem.


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## VacationForever

Sapper said:


> MVC can’t just sell them off, they comprise the underlying units of their points program.


These non-Welk timeshares are owned by Welk, the developer/company.  They can be gotten rid.  The points program will change with the Hyatt merger.


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## Mongoose

VacationForever said:


> These non-Welk timeshares are owned by Welk, the developer/company.  They can be gotten rid.  The points program will change with the Hyatt merger.


They will probably sell them as a whole to a third party to dispense of as they see fit.  A shame, because it was kind of a neat little option at some great locations.


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## VacationForever

Mongoose said:


> They will probably sell them as a whole to a third party to dispense of as they see fit.  A shame, because it was kind of a neat little option at some great locations.


They require humongous amount of Welk points to book at these resorts.  IMHO, it is not worth it.


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## vacationtime1

VacationForever said:


> They require humongous amount of Welk points to book at these resorts.  IMHO, it is not worth it.


It will probably take a humongous number of Welk points to book at Hyatt's best resorts.

Although someone who owns both Hyatt and Welk can use their shared Northstar resort to do a currency conversion.


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## Mongoose

vacationtime1 said:


> It will probably take a humongous number of Welk points to book at Hyatt's best resorts.
> 
> Although someone who owns both Hyatt and Welk can use their shared Northstar resort to do a currency conversion.


The point ratio is like 130 to 1.  When you compare like for like, they are very similar once you apply the ratio.  The MF’s appear to be 10% higher.


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## Sapper

vacationtime1 said:


> I believe the MVC trust documents permit the trustees to substitute other comparable properties, in which case the trust could sell those and add other units.  Same result if the units are in the system by a contractual booking arrangement.
> 
> But that assumes those units are held by a trust rather than as deeded weeks.  If the latter, it would be a potentially insurmountable problem.



ok, so the unit weeks can be exchanged for unit weeks in Welk owned properties and maintain the total number of points in their trust. I wonder if they have enough inventory to cover all of the unit weeks they will need to sell off.


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## JEileen

GetawaysRus said:


> So will the Marriott timeshare salespeople stop talking about a Hyatt integration into MVC now? And that MVC, through its purchase of Interval International, is simply going to take over the timeshare world?
> 
> That's been one of the top whoppers I have heard for the past few years when I have agreed to attend a Marriott presentation. And now it turns out that I didn't need to buy more Marriott DC points so that I could more easily trade into Hyatt resorts! What a surprise!


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## JEileen

Right?  We have attended TWO sales presentations in in the last 2 years in which we were told that we would be missing out on using Hyatt properties if we didn't quickly purchase additional MVC points.     So happy we walked away.


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## skimeup

Welk lists a property in Santa Fe but not as part of what they own.  Has anyone stayed there?

If Hyatt ever merges with Diamond, I suspect their heads will whirl and so many owners go out the door.  Worst ownership I've ever had.  I tried to sell it through a reseller and they wouldn't touch it.


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## dioxide45

skimeup said:


> Welk lists a property in Santa Fe but not as part of what they own.  Has anyone stayed there?
> 
> If Hyatt ever merges with Diamond, I suspect their heads will whirl and so many owners go out the door.  Worst ownership I've ever had.  I tried to sell it through a reseller and they wouldn't touch it.


Doubt that Diamond would ever merge with Hyatt since Diamond just merged with Hilton Grand Vacations.


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## JohnPaul

I’ve stayed at Welk Northstar, Welk Villas on the Green in Escondido and viewed Welk Mountain Villas in Escondido.  I found all to be very nice and upscale.

To be fair, my only Hyatt stay was years ago in Key West and was pleasant but not over the top in any way.

As such, I’m having trouble with understanding why many of the Hyatt people are trashing Welk, quality wise.


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## VacationForever

JohnPaul said:


> I’ve stayed at Welk Northstar, Welk Villas on the Green in Escondido and viewed Welk Mountain Villas in Escondido.  I found all to be very nice and upscale.
> 
> To be fair, my only Hyatt stay was years ago in Key West and was pleasant but not over the top in any way.
> 
> As such, I’m having trouble with understanding why many of the Hyatt people are trashing Welk, quality wise.


I have only stayed at the Welk resort in Palm Springs and rate it awful and the 2 older sections in Escondido about 6 times.  The units in the first phase got from bad to worse over a period of 8 years - old, cobwebs and mold running through the units.  The section (on the Green) was much better than the units in the first phase.  They were clean and satisfactory.  The mountain section is nice but very far away from the marketplace and theatre.


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## mjm1

VacationForever said:


> I have only stayed at the Welk resort in Palm Springs and rate it awful and the 2 older sections in Escondido about 6 times.  The units in the first phase got from bad to worse over a period of 8 years - old, cobwebs and mold running through the units.  The section (on the Green) was much better than the units in the first phase.  They were clean and satisfactory.  The mountain section is nice but very far away from the marketplace and theatre.



I am sorry to hear that the units in the original section of the Escondido resort have not been kept up. We owned one of those units toward the back side of the section overlooking the golf course and up to the mountain and really enjoyed it. The units are large and were well maintained. We sold it back to them in 2016, so haven’t been back since.

Best regards.

Mike


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## nuwermj

mjm1 said:


> I am sorry to hear that the units in the original section of the Escondido resort have not been kept up.



It might be an issue with the cycle for remodeling. I've been there three times in the last six years and the units were in excellent condition. Each visit we stayed in was on Melody Hill (the oldest of the three original hills). There are 286 units in the Villas and I think the HOA's upgrade cycle might be a bit too slow.


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## VacationForever

nuwermj said:


> It might be an issue with the cycle for remodeling. I've been there three times in the last six years and the units were in excellent condition. Each visit we stayed in was on Melody Hill (the oldest of the three original hills). There are 286 units in the Villas and I think the HOA's upgrade cycle might be a bit too slow.


BTW, in our last stay, there was barely a trickle of water coming out of the 2nd bathroom shower head.  Our friends had to use the shower in the master bathroom.  Upgrade cycle was slow and I would agree, but maintenance was the other issue.  Cobwebs were in the corners of the bathrooms and living room, at the floor and ceiling levels.  Internet wasn't working and we were told to keep rebooting the router within the unit and it still did not work.  We were fighting with them over the internet issue and ran out of gas. We were still working and that would have been at least 6 years ago.  A manager showed up and my husband was so upset that he said to the manager that it would be the last time we stay at that place.  You could just see on the manager's face that he was trying to hide his delight when my husband said that.  We never went back.


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## nuwermj

VacationForever said:


> ..., but maintenance was the other issue.  Cobwebs were in the corners of the bathrooms and living room, at the floor and ceiling levels.  Internet wasn't working and we were told to keep rebooting the router within the unit and it still did not work.  We were fighting with them over the internet issue and ran out of gas. We were still working and that would have been at least 6 years ago.  ...



We've been owners since the 1980s and maintenance has been getting worse and worse over the last 10 to 15 years. I think the new owners have better maintenance practices and I'm hoping they will improve what Welk was doing.


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## dioxide45

Ultimately it is the HOA and BOD that makes the decisions about renovations. Are they willing to spend what is needed to get things up to par or just let themselves get cut loose?


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## nuwermj

dioxide45 said:


> Ultimately it is the HOA and BOD that makes the decisions about renovations. Are they willing to spend what is needed to get things up to par or just let themselves get cut loose?



Welk controlled who was elected to the HOA and the Association does what the developer wants. There is no independence.


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## dioxide45

nuwermj said:


> Welk controlled who was elected to the HOA and the Association does what the developer wants. There is no independence.


Even at an old resort like Palm Desert? If so, why hasn't Welk already worked to improve this property?


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## nuwermj

dioxide45 said:


> Even at an old resort like Palm Desert? If so, why hasn't Welk already worked to improve this property?



I've never been to Welk's Desert Oasis in Cathedral City. There are 162 units and the points trust owns two-thirds of the intervals. Welk clearly controls the HOA. 

Many members of the points club say the units they stayed in are as nice as the San Diego units. I also know there are many reviewers who didn't like their stay at the resort. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy of opinion. The resort property has its limits. There are only one-bedroom units and the complex was built as an apartment building that Welk converted to timeshare.


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## PerryKing

*I think It would be nice for us if the Hyatt Hotels Corporation would just buy back the Hyatt Residence Club also !

Don't you think so also ?? *


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## RunCat

dioxide45 said:


> When Diamond (DRI) started buying up small resorts and independants, they started increasing MFs to bring resorts up to better standards. I suspect some level of improvements will be born by the owners (because they will benefit from the better accommodations) and also by the developer. For sold out resorts, I suspect most if not all costs will be covered by owners. If owners don't like it, they can go independant. They don't need to stay with Welk/Hyatt. The decision is up to the BOD.



Going to address a lot of points that were made:
a) For the vast majority of the properties there is one BOD since the properties are owned by a Trust.  I am not sure how easy it would be to have a resort go independent since all of them are collectively owned.  I've heard that 75% of all ownership in with points in the Trust.
Welk Villas, Palm Desert and VOG do have a smaller BOD for those units that are still in the weeks program.  Note: weeks owners do not have the ability to "exchange" within the Welk system.  The weeks owners can only book at their own resort; either fixed or flex. 

b) Agree with the assessment made earlier about the quality of the resorts. Palm Springs is the ugly duckling.  But lots of people still like it and use it.  But I am not a fan.    When I was in Escondido in March, many of the "older" units were undergoing interior upgrades.  The VOG units the same.  And I agree with one of the other Welk owners that noted that maintenance in Escondido has not been very good for awhile.  Chipped paint and rust can be seen on some of the exterior area.  Some of the interiors were quite dated.  Welk over the past 2-3 years seems to have put more effort keeping things better. 

c)  About Hyatt  Northstar vs Welk Northstar.  A handful of the Hyatt Northstar units were sold prior to Welk's purchase.  An offer was made to buy them out which some owners did; others stayed within the Hyatt system.  As part of the purchase, there were two parcels that were already zoned for the expansion.  There are a total of three buildings.  Only the "older" bldg has Hyatt owners. 

d) re: The Experience Resorts:  those are listed in the Platinum program documentation and are in the Trust. 

e) Welk is still selling points.  Prices are down slightly from what they were pre-Covid.

f) It will be quite interesting to see how the ownership perks are merged.  Members with "higher" point values have the opportunity to book as many as 22 months in advance. (Granted, only a limited inventory is made available or else, I suspect, all of the prime times will be filled).  General reservations can be made at 15 months.

g) Agree that Welk will be HPP.  Northstar, Cabo, Breckenridge, Branson, Mountain Villas in Escondido can only be accessed, within the Welk system, via points.  As I alluded to above, weeks owners do not have access to these resorts nor the "Experience Collection" within the Welk system.

h) from my understanding, Welk had a very large number of points that were unsold.  Not sure if swapping could take place to remove a resort or remove the Experience Resorts.  (https://thecollection.welkresorts.com)

Been an owner with Welk for 20+ years.  And have been,  in general, quite happy with them.


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## RunCat

nuwermj said:


> We've been owners since the 1980s and maintenance has been getting worse and worse over the last 10 to 15 years. I think the new owners have better maintenance practices and I'm hoping they will improve what Welk was doing.



I have seen improvements since 2018.  I was last at Escondido in March and will be back again in November.  The past few times I have been there I have seen major upgrade work being performed in all of the units.  When I was there in July '20,  we had an issue with the shower because a contractor left a towel in the shower drain.   It was an issue that I did not mind, since upgrades were obviously taking place.


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## RunCat

nuwermj said:


> I've never been to Welk's Desert Oasis in Cathedral City. There are 162 units and the points trust owns two-thirds of the intervals. Welk clearly controls the HOA.
> 
> Many members of the points club say the units they stayed in are as nice as the San Diego units. I also know there are many reviewers who didn't like their stay at the resort. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy of opinion. The resort property has its limits. There are only one-bedroom units and the complex was built as an apartment building that Welk converted to timeshare.



I was in Desert Oasis in Dec 2019.  At the time, they looked quite dated.  Also there is not a washer/dryer in the room.  It is also not as "high-end" as the newer resorts; which may be part of the problem.  Cabo, Northstar and Breckenridge are, IMO,  much better.  But, nothing that $$ can't fix.


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## dioxide45

RunCat said:


> a) For the vast majority of the properties there is one BOD since the properties are owned by a Trust. I am not sure how easy it would be to have a resort go independent since all of them are collectively owned. I've heard that 75% of all ownership in with points in the Trust.
> Welk Villas, Palm Desert and VOG do have a smaller BOD for those units that are still in the weeks program. Note: weeks owners do not have the ability to "exchange" within the Welk system. The weeks owners can only book at their own resort; either fixed or flex.


While they are collectively owned, each resort is still an independant HOA. You can't have an HOA span multiple resorts in multiple states. So there would be an HOA at each resort with a BOD. Then there is a trust that either owns individual weeks at the resorts or whole units. Then that trust likely has a BOD that does get a vote in each of the "independent" HOAs for each resort. Unless there is some type of corporation ownership over all the resorts and they offer shares instead of deeds to the timeshare buyer, each resort is indeed separate and can be dropped off as independants.


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## RunCat

dioxide45 said:


> While they are collectively owned, each resort is still an independant HOA. You can't have an HOA span multiple resorts in multiple states. So there would be an HOA at each resort with a BOD. Then there is a trust that either owns individual weeks at the resorts or whole units. Then that trust likely has a BOD that does get a vote in each of the "independent" HOAs for each resort. Unless there is some type of corporation ownership over all the resorts and they offer shares instead of deeds to the timeshare buyer, each resort is indeed separate and can be dropped off as independants.



Per the DRE for CA, the Welk Resorts Platinum Program is a multi-location, points-based, time-share use plan with a nonspecific time-share interest.  There are a total of 4 Owner's Associations: Platinum Owners, Resort Villas, Villas at the Welk Resort, and Desert Oasis.  Thus as you described, the Platinum owners are share owners in the Trust.  The other owners are deeded at the individual resort.


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## nuwermj

RunCat said:


> h) from my understanding, Welk had a very large number of points that were unsold.  Not sure if swapping could take place to remove a resort or remove the Experience Resorts.  (https://thecollection.welkresorts.com)



Yes, resorts or parts of resorts can be withdrawn from the trust and the Platinum Program. Here are some of the statements from the governing documents.

From the Public Offering:
"The Association has the power to deannex (remove) Resort Accommodations from the timeshare plan and to thereafter sell the deannexed Resort Accommodations, or to substitute Resort Accommodations. Deannexation may occur if the Association determines the Resort Accommodations to be substandard, or damaged beyond reasonable repair, or if the holder of a blanket encumbrance forecloses on some of the inventory, and determines that the foreclosed inventory is not needed to support the number of outstanding points. No deannexation or substitution may occur which would cause the number of Points outstanding to exceed the maximum permissible number of Points allowed under the time-share plan unless and until The Program has acquired or created such additional Points or canceled a sufficient number of Points to bring the inventory of authorized Points into balance with the number of Points outstanding."

For example, in the case of Desert Oasis the Public Offering acknowledges:
"In the event that the sublease for these intervals is not extended when the current term expires on September 13, 2061, the Association would be obligated to maintain its one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, pursuant to Section 4.2(c) of the Declaration, by either substituting new inventory for the removed inventory, or terminating a sufficient number of non-issued Points to make up for the loss of the Desert Oasis by Welk Resorts inventory, to bring the inventory back into balance with the outstanding number of Points."

And, Section 4.2(c) from the Master Declaration:
"Substitution of Ownerships. To substitute Ownerships, through the annexation of newly dedicated Resort Accommodations, and either (i) the deannexation of previously dedicated Resort Accommodations, or (ii) the expiration of the use terms of Resort Accommodations whose terms are for less than perpetuity, ass the Board may determine to be in the best interest of the Association, so long as the balance of Ownership and Points outstanding is maintained before and after such substitution. The Association shall not be obligated to dedicate substitute Resort Accommodation to the extent it holds sufficient nonissued Points which it then cancels to make up for the loss of any Resort Accommodations which are either deannexed or for which the applicable use terms, if less than perpetuity, have expired."


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## RunCat

nuwermj said:


> Yes, resorts or parts of resorts can be withdrawn from the trust and the Platinum Program. Here are some of the statements from the governing documents.
> 
> From the Public Offering:
> "The Association has the power to deannex (remove) Resort Accommodations from the timeshare plan and to thereafter sell the deannexed Resort Accommodations, or to substitute Resort Accommodations. Deannexation may occur if the Association determines the Resort Accommodations to be substandard, or damaged beyond reasonable repair, or if the holder of a blanket encumbrance forecloses on some of the inventory, and determines that the foreclosed inventory is not needed to support the number of outstanding points. No deannexation or substitution may occur which would cause the number of Points outstanding to exceed the maximum permissible number of Points allowed under the time-share plan unless and until The Program has acquired or created such additional Points or canceled a sufficient number of Points to bring the inventory of authorized Points into balance with the number of Points outstanding."
> 
> For example, in the case of Desert Oasis the Public Offering acknowledges:
> "In the event that the sublease for these intervals is not extended when the current term expires on September 13, 2061, the Association would be obligated to maintain its one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, pursuant to Section 4.2(c) of the Declaration, by either substituting new inventory for the removed inventory, or terminating a sufficient number of non-issued Points to make up for the loss of the Desert Oasis by Welk Resorts inventory, to bring the inventory back into balance with the outstanding number of Points."
> 
> And, Section 4.2(c) from the Master Declaration:
> "Substitution of Ownerships. To substitute Ownerships, through the annexation of newly dedicated Resort Accommodations, and either (i) the deannexation of previously dedicated Resort Accommodations, or (ii) the expiration of the use terms of Resort Accommodations whose terms are for less than perpetuity, ass the Board may determine to be in the best interest of the Association, so long as the balance of Ownership and Points outstanding is maintained before and after such substitution. The Association shall not be obligated to dedicate substitute Resort Accommodation to the extent it holds sufficient nonissued Points which it then cancels to make up for the loss of any Resort Accommodations which are either deannexed or for which the applicable use terms, if less than perpetuity, have expired."



Yep. . . . read the same thing.


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## dannybaker

We own three weeks two bedroom lock off units at Villas on the green in Escondido. We currently deposit them in RCI or II. I would imagine not much would change. RCI has really turned our weeks into crap and we’re paying about $32 dollars per tpu. Maintenance fees are higher than my Marriott units and an additional state tax is assessed annually. Based on what I’m reading we Probably will sell all three weeks.


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