# Bluebeard's Castle-good deal?



## banzai (Jun 21, 2006)

I've just been contacted by a good friend who knows someone wanting to be rid of their Maint. Fees (~$940/yr) on a lockout unit that sleeps 8.  After talking with the owner it sounds like it is a nice resort that trades very well too.

Any insights or things to consider before purchasing?  Any suggestions on who to use to for closing the sale?

Thanks.


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## Blondie (Jun 21, 2006)

I may be wrong but I believe this resort had some financial problems not that long ago.  I am not sure if it was an assessment or mismanagement, etc. also, that maint fee is nearly $1,000.  For that amount plus a trade fee of nearly $200 you could probably rent where you want to go and save yourself some headaches. What is the purchase price anyway and when is that week? That will make a big difference in trade power. Also, this resort is not anywhere near the beach but some rooms have a nice view of the ocean.


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## gmarine (Jun 21, 2006)

Unless it is really cheap, like under $2000 I wouldnt touch it. It isnt a very high quality resort and likely wont trade all that great. Plus you have very high m-fees and I also remember some kind of financial trouble at the resort.

You also have the risk of a hurricane and a substantial special assessment should the resort be damaged.


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## timeos2 (Jun 21, 2006)

And ongoing disputes with the original developer as well as Fairfield who made at least an attempt to get things settled but has now gotten into a knock down fight with the individual owners over who pays what. This is a resort to avoid even if it was a top 10 ranked place, it is not, with far too many clouds over it. Hopefully all sides will someday realize they are only hurting each other, stop all the bickering and start to turn the resort around. Until then I wouldn't touch it at any price.


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## Carolinian (Jun 22, 2006)

What is going on at Bluebeard's castle is a court battle between the HOA's and Fairfield, partly over Fairfield's own screwups and partly over the screwups of the previous developer that Fairfield assumed when it bought the resort.  The HOA's support mediation, but Fairfield is extremely hard headed and refuses, preferring to battle it out in the courts hoping to wear down the HOA's.  This arrogance is one reason I would never touch a Fairfield t/s with a ten foot pole.




			
				timeos2 said:
			
		

> And ongoing disputes with the original developer as well as Fairfield who made at least an attempt to get things settled but has now gotten into a knock down fight with the individual owners over who pays what. This is a resort to avoid even if it was a top 10 ranked place, it is not, with far too many clouds over it. Hopefully all sides will someday realize they are only hurting each other, stop all the bickering and start to turn the resort around. Until then I wouldn't touch it at any price.


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## timeos2 (Jun 22, 2006)

Carolinian said:
			
		

> What is going on at Bluebeard's castle is a court battle between the HOA's and Fairfield, partly over Fairfield's own screwups and partly over the screwups of the previous developer that Fairfield assumed when it bought the resort.  The HOA's support mediation, but Fairfield is extremely hard headed and refuses, preferring to battle it out in the courts hoping to wear down the HOA's.  This arrogance is one reason I would never touch a Fairfield t/s with a ten foot pole.


Steve - You paint with far too broad a brush to say avoid FF because of this fiasco. FF, the owners and the original developer have made a total nightmare out of Bluebeards but that isn't what FF is all about overall.  They have proven to be a great system to own in for us and a really good deal for buyers who utilize the bargains available at resale pricing for the Fairshare Plus system. This resort is an exception to an otherwise great system.


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## somerville (Jun 22, 2006)

Fairfield may be good for many people, but Bluebeard's is not the exception.  Just ask those of us in the Equivest Vacation and Travel Club.


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## timeos2 (Jun 22, 2006)

It would appear that FF is better at building their own resorts than buying other groups.  That is a really small part of the FF operation but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem for those owners that find themselves unexpectedly in the FF operation. But Bluebeards stands alone as a resort that has been troubled almost from day 1. Why FF even tried to step in is beyond me but they did and it's still a mess. In response to the OP this is not a property that I would consider to be a deal at any price.


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## banzai (Jun 22, 2006)

Wow.  Thanks for all the input.  I've recently purchased two SA weeks and so far am happy with what we've been able to do with them in the short time we've owned them.  So I wasn't really in a possition to really purchase the Bluebeard's weeks.  I was mostly trying to find out if this was something that I should not pass up.  

Thanks.


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## kdrew (Jun 23, 2006)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> Steve - You paint with far too broad a brush to say avoid FF because of this fiasco. FF, the owners and the original developer have made a total nightmare out of Bluebeards but that isn't what FF is all about overall.  They have proven to be a great system to own in for us and a really good deal for buyers who utilize the bargains available at resale pricing for the Fairshare Plus system. This resort is an exception to an otherwise great system.




Here we go again. It appears as if John is a FF supporter and that they did nothing wrong with regards to Bluebeard's. Wave  bye-bye to that!

Pure a simple quick history lesson: FF bought Bluebeard's without doing their due diligence. FF owns the liability. FF actively campaigned against owner representation on the Boards (and still supports its own sympathetic owners by appointing them Board seats...illegally but that is for another post on another day), * REFUSES BINDING ARBITRATION!!*, offered less and 25% of what it would have cost to fix the resort (having reports in hand that were not shared with the owner Boards!), and the list goes on and on.

Meanwhile FF has done their best to stall the litgation and divide the 4 Associations as best they can. The ball continues to be in FF's court (no pun intended) but they still refuse to mediate or work towards any sort of settlement. The owners law firm continues to press forward with both an HOA case as well as a class action case.

How do I know all of this? I am a Board member for the past 4 years. I helped unite owners to get Board control away from the developer and look out for owner's interest. I am also involved in the class action suit to protect former owners who sold their units for pennies on the dollar.

*BOTTOM LINE:* it is just a matter of time before FF pays. Smart money would be to settle now because the cost of reconstruction is only going to go up with each passing day. Also, St. Thomas juries love to rule against big corporations for large dollars. If it goes to court, you are looking at a settlement package that will be over $100M. FF could have settled for $16-18M but chose not to. Such is life. 


Ken


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## kdrew (Jun 23, 2006)

banzai said:
			
		

> Wow.  Thanks for all the input.  I've recently purchased two SA weeks and so far am happy with what we've been able to do with them in the short time we've owned them.  So I wasn't really in a possition to really purchase the Bluebeard's weeks.  I was mostly trying to find out if this was something that I should not pass up.
> 
> Thanks.




After the settlement, the units are going to be worth something and the location is awesome. I have owned since 1991 and cannot wait for the updates that will happen when all the legal stuff clears. Could be soon or it could be a few more years. Regardless, it will be worth the wait.


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## lvhmbh (Jun 23, 2006)

We own at Bluebeards.  We support Ken Drew and our BOD's totally and feel as if we will prevail against unFF.   We bought in the 80's and really loved the place.  We are paying higher maintenance there for a 1 br and studio than we are paying for a 2 br in high season in Aruba!!!!!  DH and I have discussed dumping but feel as if that would be giving up on a great resort that, when we prevail (and we will!!!!), will be a wonderful place again.   I wouldn't touch an unFF property with a 10 foot pole and I won't even trade in to one.  Linda


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## timeos2 (Jun 23, 2006)

lvhmbh said:
			
		

> We own at Bluebeards.  We support Ken Drew and our BOD's totally and feel as if we will prevail against unFF.   We bought in the 80's and really loved the place.  We are paying higher maintenance there for a 1 br and studio than we are paying for a 2 br in high season in Aruba!!!!!  DH and I have discussed dumping but feel as if that would be giving up on a great resort that, when we prevail (and we will!!!!), will be a wonderful place again.   I wouldn't touch an unFF property with a 10 foot pole and I won't even trade in to one.  Linda



As well you should! Being a Board member at a resort in a legal battle is a thankless, but vital, job. I'm not saying FF is without fault in this case but I also cannot say the owners are 100% right either.  I do think that emotions sometimes overrule business sense and that isn't a good combination if you are in a legal battle. Nothing is ever completely black and white in law and courts usually understand very little about what went on before the current battle broke out.  Having been through a similar situation years ago I can speak from experience that the courts want the parties to come to agreement  and if they don't the process can drag out for many expensive years while the resort continues to decline.  

FF is under no obilgation to accept binding arbitration if they have a choice in the matter and feel it isn't in their best interest.  They aren't alone in trying to influence the makeup of the Boards - it has been done before. If they are open about it and don't break any rules they are within their rights.  The owners also have a responsibility in this whole thing and expecting FF or anyone else to pay anywhere near 100% to bring the resort back to standards may be asking too much. It deteriorated under their watch and they have to realize they will have to help pay to bring it back.

Again I am not for the FF side and I appreciate the efort of the owners Board. I really hope both sides find a workable compromise and get the turnaround started. The money wasted fighting each other doesn't help anyone but the lawyers. Neither side will get all they want but thats what a compromise is. It would be so much better to hear they have settled and things will finally improve for owners, FF and guests.  So far that doesn't seem to be happening and that is the real shame regardless of which side you fall on.


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## kdrew (Jun 23, 2006)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> Again I am not for the FF side and I appreciate the efort of the owners Board. I really hope both sides find a workable compromise and get the turnaround started. The money wasted fighting each other doesn't help anyone but the lawyers. Neither side will get all they want but thats what a compromise is. It would be so much better to hear they have settled and things will finally improve for owners, FF and guests.  So far that doesn't seem to be happening and that is the real shame regardless of which side you fall on.



It is very hard to reach a compromise when the other party refuses to talk, mediate, arbitrate, and stall any and all legal preoceedings. Let us look at it for what it is- a 900 lb. gorilla wanting it their way. FF wants it their way. They think owners won't compormise but are unwilling to sit and talk. Legal action is the only reourse. Sad but true.

ARDA doesn't care to help- why should they, FF pays their way. Thus owners can either sit and do nothing or push through the legal channels. I state it regularly- FF, we are ready to talk, mediate, etc. any time, any place. Trust me, some FF execs will lose their jobs when this settles or goes to court. They could have settled for $18M and not they will be lucky to settle for twice that.

:zzz: tis late for me......till next time! 
 

Ken


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## BC0796 (Aug 1, 2011)

*Bluebeards a good deal?*



banzai said:


> I've just been contacted by a good friend who knows someone wanting to be rid of their Maint. Fees (~$940/yr) on a lockout unit that sleeps 8.  After talking with the owner it sounds like it is a nice resort that trades very well too.
> 
> Any insights or things to consider before purchasing?  Any suggestions on who to use to for closing the sale?
> 
> Thanks.



You can see their resale value on ebay. Zero dollars is the average. They are a scam. Their goal is to sucker you in, and extort money from you by raising the maintenance fees and threatening your credit rating. They will send horrible criminal organizations to scare you into paying up the extortion fees.

RUN AWAY from Bluebeards as fast as you can!!!!!!


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## Numismatist (Aug 1, 2011)

Not to hijack, but if you want St. Thomas, try Marriott Frenchman's Cove, a little more for sure, but no real issues there to contend with.


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## Tia (Aug 1, 2011)

VERY OLD thread revived for who knows what reason.

 The Castle received over $24 Million in a settlement from Equivest STT (branch of Wyndham ) a couple years ago. Resort recently underwent a renovation/remodel. Trip Advisor has some positive reviews recently.

Owners here can join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bluebeards/


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## oper035 (Aug 2, 2011)

On my last visit this past July, we dined at "Room with a View".
I was VERY impressed with the renovations at the check in / registration building.  Also, the view from the pool area was exceptional.
Are there any plans for the individual units?


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## Tia (Aug 2, 2011)

Individual units were remodeled/renovated , new furniture  in all the bldgs. except Pirates Pension. Pirates Pension board at the time did not participate in the lawsuit against Equivest/Wyndham, so received something but not what the others received. Units I saw were Villas III and took a look at a couple units in Hilltop I when they were cleaning on checkout day.


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## Carolinian (Aug 2, 2011)

BC0796 said:


> You can see their resale value on ebay. Zero dollars is the average. They are a scam. Their goal is to sucker you in, and extort money from you by raising the maintenance fees and threatening your credit rating. They will send horrible criminal organizations to scare you into paying up the extortion fees.
> 
> RUN AWAY from Bluebeards as fast as you can!!!!!!



eBay is the bargain basement for ALL timeshares.  In most areas, selling through other venues bring higher prices than eBay.  eBay is a great place to buy timeshare but a horrible place to sell it.

Bluebeards is now run by its members, not by developers.


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## gkbiiii (Jul 17, 2015)

*Any recent news 2015?*

So what has happened since receiving the $25 Million settlement?


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## Tia (Jul 19, 2015)

See post #19, settlement was in 2008. Pirates Pension just recently got some new updating, there is a Facebook page you can maybe check out for pics. The lobby was totally rebuilt, added solar to save $ on expensive kilowatts. The list is long on what all has been done .

To date maint. fees have remained stable and no special assessments, while refurbishing the resort. The Castle tower was refurbished and has a interesting exhibit. They offer tours on certain days for a small fee. The tower had been let go under the past developers but is now in use and quite interesting. 



gkbiiii said:


> So what has happened since receiving the $25 Million settlement?


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## gkbiiii (Jul 19, 2015)

So the good news is that all this was paid for by the settlement and the owners did not have any large assessments!!


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