# Interval international unit size upgrade fee??



## sb2313

I am searching II using a 2 bedroom deposit, and all 3 bedrooms now list a $59 unit size upgrade fee?! When searching with a 1 bedroom, it is $59 more for a 2 bedroom and $118 more for a 3 bedroom. Best of all, a studio is a $177 extra fee to confirm a 3 bedroom for a total of $356?! Of course, the studios do not list any kind of unit size fee refund for a downgrade in unit size when searching with a 1 or 2 bedroom deposit. No warning was given of this "enhancement" and not cool at all interval.


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## Chrispee

Ugh, it's a dark day for II exchangers.


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## sb2313

Chrispee said:


> Ugh, it's a dark day for II exchangers.



Yep. Those last minute 2 or 3 bedrooms we've confirmed using studios just got a whole lot more expensive!


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## mdurette

Wow - I must have missed this change.  When did this start?    

At first I thought not too bad, assuming this fee is for size upgrades that my original unit didn't have the power to pull.   But, I just looked at Orlando low demand periods that I could pull 3 BR options with my 1BR.    Now, looks like I need to pay for it.

Yep, sad day, especially knowing that I would probably take advantage of it!   But, what this may do is stop the purchase of buying E-Trade and obsessively looking for a larger unit daily!    That would be ok.


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## Tradetimes

Same story for me..new fee this morning...not there yesterday...
More money for II...less for traders!



We should buy stock from II today...the profit will going UP!!! i will not lose everything


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## Tradetimes

From my one bedroom

+118  for three bedrooms..
+ $177 for 4 bedrooms..

next step..pay xtra or better quality...premier to elite +59$..+118+177..oups should dont want to give bad idea to II


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## Tradetimes

Message from II:

The cost to upgrade your unit size is $99 per upgrade step. Interval Platinum members will pay a reduced rate of $59 per upgrade step, and Interval Gold members will pay a reduced rate of $79 per upgrade step. The Unit-Size Upgrade fee is in addition to your exchange fee.

There is no upgrade fee for instant exchange confirmations made within the Flexchange window


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## Sugarcubesea

Chrispee said:


> Ugh, it's a dark day for II exchangers.



I agree, this company is already making a ton of money and it's indeed a very sad day.

I wonder if they will still charge this fee, for those resorts that only have 2 bedroom units?


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## dougp26364

A couple of months ago I upgraded a higher value, in week and unit quality, Marriott 1 bedroom week for a lower quality 2 bedroom Westgate week without a fee.

This is still better IMHO than the higher membership fee's and exchange fee's charged by RCI. It amounts to a usage fee for those who upgrade in size. It's also less expensive than paying MF's on the appropriate size unit to exchange 1:1


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## Sugarcubesea

Tradetimes said:


> Message from II:
> 
> The cost to upgrade your unit size is $99 per upgrade step. Interval Platinum members will pay a reduced rate of $59 per upgrade step, and Interval Gold members will pay a reduced rate of $79 per upgrade step. The Unit-Size Upgrade fee is in addition to your exchange fee.
> 
> There is no upgrade fee for instant exchange confirmations made within the Flexchange window



So, what would be the flexchange window? Is it 60 days prior to departure?


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## Great3

*Wow, worse than I thought!!!!*

Per II FAQ:

Q. What is the cost to upgrade my unit size?

The cost to upgrade your unit size is $99 per upgrade step. Interval Platinum members will pay a reduced rate of $59 per upgrade step, and Interval Gold members will pay a reduced rate of $79 per upgrade step. The Unit-Size Upgrade fee is in addition to your exchange fee.

There is no upgrade fee for instant exchange confirmations made within the Flexchange window.

So, it's really $99 if you don't have gold/platinum membership, which is more than 50% of the exchange fee of $179.  This will start to make exchanges a bad value in many cases, when you add in yearly II membership fee, exchange fee, unit upgrade fee, MFs, taxes, etc... to get the true cost of exchanging...

Great3


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## presley

This puts them more in line with the small independent exchange companies, which is a step down for II. The thing that irritates me the most about these type of upgrade fees is that they charge you more to get a larger room, but when you trade down from a 2 bedroom to a one bedroom, they don't give you any type of credit.


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## Great3

*Upgrade fees or EPlus as well!!!!*

Again, from II FAQ:

Q. Do I have to pay for a unit-size upgrade on an E-Plus retrade?

If your E-Plus retrade is being confirmed into a larger unit than your existing confirmation, then the E-Plus retrade is subject to the Unit-Size Upgrade fee.

There is no upgrade fee for E-Plus retrades made within the Flexchange window.

So, it's now $54 + $99 at least if you are hoping to upgrade to a larger unit using eplus retrade.

Great3


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## turkel

Tradetimes said:


> Message from II:
> 
> The cost to upgrade your unit size is $99 per upgrade step. Interval Platinum members will pay a reduced rate of $59 per upgrade step, and Interval Gold members will pay a reduced rate of $79 per upgrade step. The Unit-Size Upgrade fee is in addition to your exchange fee.
> 
> There is no upgrade fee for instant exchange confirmations made within the Flexchange window



Oh yes there is! Just looked this morning and my Marriott studio for Aruba July 9th check in was a $99 unit upgrade fee for a 1 bedroom.

WTFnot happy with this change as I have ALWAYS upgraded my studio for FREE and just bought another 2 bed lock out. And double whammy just upgraded SO interval account to Platinum when he owns an every other year unit and I own 2 lock offs and will trade more grrr. ( upgraded his account to get 2 free guest Certificates in my name for the Marriott credit on 14 day stay since I am the rewards member ) 

Can't put into words how unhappy I am right now


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## klpca

presley said:


> This puts them more in line with the small independent exchange companies, which is a step down for II. The thing that irritates me the most about these type of upgrade fees is that they charge you more to get a larger room, but when you trade down from a 2 bedroom to a one bedroom, they don't give you any type of credit.



This. There should be a unit size exchange credit on your account when you downtrade.


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## tschwa2

There is a 2 br at Marriott's Canyon Villas at Desert Ridge for July and I don't see an upgrade fee when using a 1 br unit to search.  

Check again to see if the upgrade fees apply during flexchange.


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## Panina

I am ok paying the extra fee if the weeks were comparable time and place as then a unit upgrade is occurring. 

Unfortunately now downgrading time and place can cost more money.  I think  this fee will probably make owners of  high demand studios, one bedroom weeks use Rci instead of II unless they are trading for a comparable time and place.


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## dioxide45

Remember this thread about the survey?

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242441&highlight=survey


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## dioxide45

Panina said:


> I am ok paying the extra fee if the weeks were comparable time and place as then a unit upgrade is occurring.
> 
> Unfortunately now downgrading time and place can cost more money.  I think  this fee will probably make owners of  high demand studios, one bedroom weeks use Rci instead of II unless they are trading for a comparable time and place.



That will only work if their resort is affiliated with II. For most Marriott and Vistana properties, RCI isn't an option.


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## sb2313

dioxide45 said:


> Remember this thread about the survey?
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242441&highlight=survey



I missed that one! So this actually is no surprise then. I'm just glad I secured my 3 bedroom at surfwatch for next spring as there's no way I'm paying almost $400 to exchange into silver season since I used a 1 bedroom non-Marriot.


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## dioxide45

Here is the full breakout from the FAQ regarding upgrade fees. Sneaky of them to just add this in to the regular "Interval International" FAQ. No separate section.



> *Q. How can I upgrade to a larger unit?*
> 
> Unit-size upgrades are offered when making an instant exchange confirmation. Upgrade opportunities are based on availability and are not available for every exchange confirmation.
> 
> *Q. What is an upgrade step?*
> 
> Upgrade fees will be charged for each step, or unit size confirmed that is larger than the unit size deposited. For example, if you upgrade a one-bedroom unit to a two-bedroom unit, you will be charged for one upgrade step. If you upgrade a studio unit to a two-bedroom unit, you will be charged for two upgrade steps.
> 
> *Q. What is the cost to upgrade my unit size?*
> 
> The cost to upgrade your unit size is $99 per upgrade step. Interval Platinum members will pay a reduced rate of $59 per upgrade step, and Interval Gold members will pay a reduced rate of $79 per upgrade step. The Unit-Size Upgrade fee is in addition to your exchange fee.
> 
> There is no upgrade fee for instant exchange confirmations made within the Flexchange window.
> 
> *Q. How many steps can I upgrade my unit?*
> 
> The number of steps you can upgrade your unit is based on the unit size of the week you deposited and exchange availability.
> 
> *Q. Why can’t I see any larger units when I shop for my exchange?*
> 
> The exchange program is based on the comparable value of the week you are depositing to the week you are looking to confirm. For example, if you deposit a unit that sleeps four, your trading power allows you to confirm a unit that sleeps four, regardless of the unit size. The opportunity to upgrade to a larger unit will appear from time to time, as it is based on availability. Additionally, only weeks owners are eligible for unit-size upgrades. Points owners will not be affected since the number of points they relinquish determines the unit size confirmed.
> 
> *Q. I cancelled my exchange. Do I receive a refund for my Unit-Size Upgrade fee?*
> 
> The refund of Unit-Size Upgrade Fees operates the same way as the refund of exchange fees does. If your cancellation is within 24 hours of your exchange confirmation, your Unit-Size Upgrade fee will be refunded. If a cancellation is made after 24 hours, no fees will be refunded.
> 
> *Q. Can I upgrade a Getaway?*
> 
> No, unit-size upgrades are not available for Getaways.
> 
> *Q. Can I upgrade a ShortStay Exchange or Interval Options?*
> 
> No, unit-size upgrades are not available for ShortStay Exchanges or Interval Options.
> 
> *Q. Will I get a chance to upgrade my unit size if I placed a pending request?*
> 
> At this time, unit-size upgrades are only available with an instant exchange confirmation. If you placed a pending request and a larger unit becomes available, you may be contacted by an advisor from our Vacation Assistance Department, who will offer you the unit and collect the Unit-Size Upgrade fee.
> 
> *Q. Do I have to pay for a unit-size upgrade on an E-Plus retrade?*
> 
> If your E-Plus retrade is being confirmed into a larger unit than your existing confirmation, then the E-Plus retrade is subject to the Unit-Size Upgrade fee.
> 
> There is no upgrade fee for E-Plus retrades made within the Flexchange window.


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## turkel

dioxide45 said:


> Here is the full breakout from the FAQ regarding upgrade fees. Sneaky of them to just add this in to the regular "Interval International" FAQ. No separate section.



Well that answers the OGS question. Thx


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## tschwa2

sb2313 said:


> I missed that one! So this actually is no surprise then. I'm just glad I secured my 3 bedroom at surfwatch for next spring as there's no way I'm paying almost $400 to exchange into silver season since I used a 1 bedroom non-Marriot.



More off season large units will sit.  I wonder if this will lead to a decrease in the trading power for 3 br off season weeks.  I am sure II will have no problem selling them as getaways.


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## sb2313

tschwa2 said:


> More off season large units will sit.  I wonder if this will lead to a decrease in the trading power for 3 br off season weeks.  I am sure II will have no problem selling them as getaways.



Definitely. I used the small side of a Sheraton Broadway plantation lockoff to grab a late March 3 bedroom at surfwatch. But at $400 exchange fee, I'd likely just have waited until 59 days or less out to see what's left. And it'll be very interesting to see what happens to Orlando and Branson, ect offseason larger unit inventory that can already be had for $400-500 as getaways!


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## tschwa2

Next thing you know II will start charging for each step you go up in terms of a resorts rating.  So one extra strep from Premier to Elite, two extra steps from Select to Elite, and three extra steps from non rated to Elite.  

These are the picky kind of fees I dislike with the independents.  Some charge for size including total occupancy (so a 2 br sleeps 6 going to a 2 br sleeps 8 would be charged an extra fee) and season.


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## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> Next thing you know II will start charging for each step you go up in terms of a resorts rating.  So one extra strep from Premier to Elite, two extra steps from Select to Elite, and three extra steps from non rated to Elite.
> 
> These are the picky kind of fees I dislike with the independents.  Some charge for size including total occupancy (so a 2 br sleeps 6 going to a 2 br sleeps 8 would be charged an extra fee) and season.



It is only a matter of time. They didn't create the new Elite resort designation for nothing...


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## dioxide45

I think this change will make some people rethink the value of adding EPlus. $54+99 doesn't make those upgrades as attractive. If you get your initial trade for a studio, you may just be happy with it and not bother with the $54 fee in hope of getting an upgrade for $99 or more.


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## CCR

Oh I'm so sad.  I was looking at exchanges yesterday and this fee wasn't there.  I'm very sad to see the fee for instant exchanges to larger rooms.

I also want to know like another Tugger asked what exactly is the "Flexchange" time period?


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## klpca

dioxide45 said:


> I think this change will make some people rethink the value of adding EPlus. $54+99 doesn't make those upgrades as attractive. If you get your initial trade for a studio, you may just be happy with it and not bother with the $54 fee in hope of getting an upgrade for $99 or more.


Totally agree with this. I was adding it to all trades but I think that's over for now.


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## turkel

klpca said:


> Totally agree with this. I was adding it to all trades but I think that's over for now.



I would not e plus again. It took up too much time and was aggravating. I would not have had to pay the $99 since I only got to upgrade in flexchange ( which is the 59 day window prior to check in ). 

This will alter my strategy but the cheap in me will find a way to limit paying these fees.


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## dioxide45

CCR said:


> Oh I'm so sad.  I was looking at exchanges yesterday and this fee wasn't there.  I'm very sad to see the fee for instant exchanges to larger rooms.
> 
> I also want to know like another Tugger asked what exactly is the "Flexchange" time period?



Flescahnge is the period of 59 days from checkin. No fee applies during that time. That will be the time when getting those upgrades will be harder. Those adding EPlus will be waiting till then to snag the upgrade instead of further out.


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## dioxide45

Perhaps this is just a side effect of EPlus? With people being able to retrade for a $54 fee, it has put pressure on the number of larger units available in the inventory. THis might loosen that inventory a little.

I don't know if I would have rather seen this type of fee or a TPU type of system like RCI has. This new fee has just catapulted II above RCI in how expensive each are to trade in their network.


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## tschwa2

It depends on the where and the when.  Marriott seems to fairly regularly dump units in close to check in date.  With others not so much.  Even so If I wanted a 2 br vs the studio  I was currently confirmed in (let's say at Surf Club) and one became available 6 months in advance, I might just pay the $198 to confirm the larger unit especially if that meant another person could come on the trip now that there is room.  If there is just two of us I would definitely pass up the 2 br upgrade and would wait until flexchange for a 1 or 2 br unit.


One thing those using eplus will need to be careful about is sizing up and down during the 3 retrades.  Lets say I use a 1 br and confirm into a studio.  I see an retrade into a 2 br.  I would hope I would only have to pay the difference between the 1 br that I relinquished and not the studio I accepted.  Later I realize that those dates don't work for me at all so I do a place holder eplus into a 1 br (this is a mistake because I think if I use my last retrade for a 2 br, I would have to pay the upgrade fee again).  Finally I make my last exchange.


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## dioxide45

tschwa2 said:


> It depends on the where and the when.  Marriott seems to fairly regularly dump units in close to check in date.  With others not so much.  Even so If I wanted a 2 br vs the studio  I was currently confirmed in (let's say at Surf Club) and one became available 6 months in advance, I might just pay the $198 to confirm the larger unit especially if that meant another person could come on the trip now that there is room.  If there is just two of us I would definitely pass up the 2 br upgrade and would wait until flexchange for a 1 or 2 br unit.
> 
> 
> One thing those using eplus will need to be careful about is sizing up and down during the 3 retrades.  Lets say I use a 1 br and confirm into a studio.  I see an retrade into a 2 br.  I would hope I would only have to pay the difference between the 1 br that I relinquished and not the studio I accepted.  Later I realize that those dates don't work for me at all so I do a place holder eplus into a 1 br (this is a mistake because I think if I use my last retrade for a 2 br, I would have to pay the upgrade fee again).  Finally I make my last exchange.



Another question, do they credit the fee already paid with one retrade upgrade to the next retrade. Say I trade a studio in to a 1BR and pay the $99 fee. What happens when I go and retrade in to a 2BR. Do I pay the $198 fee now? Or do they give me credit for the $99 fee I already paid?


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## dioxide45

I also think that the fee structure is flawed. It is the same fee to upgrade from a studio to a 1BR as it is to go from a 1BR to a 2BR. There is a big difference in the two types of exchanges. First, the total occupancy in many cases is the same for a studio and a 1BR. The same isn't true for a 1BR and a 2BR. You can often get double the number of people in most 2BR units as you can in a 1BR. The fee from a studio to a 1BR should be a lot less than from a 1BR to a 2BR. I also think the last tier to a 3BR should be lower. $100 more for an extra room that can often only sleep two more people.


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## tschwa2

The funny thing is when DAE first started to charge an upgrade fee, they only charged it on studios.  Originally there was no fee to upgrade from a 1 br to a 2br.  The reasoning behind the fee was they had a glut of studio deposits that no one wanted. The have since implemented the upgrade fee to all size units including double upgrade fees to go from studio to 2 br.


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## VacationForever

Does this now mean that in a search result, a studio will return larger units even when it does not have the trade power (as in the past) to trade up?  Does it also mean that in OGS, we can pay extra for the option to trade to larger units?


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## dioxide45

sptung said:


> Does this now mean that in a search result, a studio will return larger units even when it does not have the trade power (as in the past) to trade up?  Does it also mean that in OGS, we can pay extra for the option to trade to larger units?



No, the system will still only return "comparable" exchanges, if one of those "comparable" exchanges happens to be larger than the unit you deposited, you will pay the fee. You still won't be able to see anything and everything available in inventory.


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## pchung6

I'm super disappointed with the fee.  Yesterday, I was thinking to take the 2 br St Thomas, but I waited.  This morning, we decided it will be great if we take an extra vacation to St Thomas, and the next thing was the $117 upgrade fee for my studio exchange which wasn't there yesterday.  So we scraped the plan to St Thomas. Very disappointed and this is not cool, Interval.


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## youppi

dioxide45 said:


> I also think that the fee structure is flawed. It is the same fee to upgrade from a studio to a 1BR as it is to go from a 1BR to a 2BR. There is a big difference in the two types of exchanges. First, the total occupancy in many cases is the same for a studio and a 1BR. The same isn't true for a 1BR and a 2BR. You can often get double the number of people in most 2BR units as you can in a 1BR. The fee from a studio to a 1BR should be a lot less than from a 1BR to a 2BR. I also think the last tier to a 3BR should be lower. $100 more for an extra room that can often only sleep two more people.



The step between a studio and a 1  bedroom is bigger than 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom. Most studio don't have kitchen, a lot sleep only 2 and those that sleep 4, all people sleep in the same room (not practical with young children that go to bed earlier). If you look at most 2 bedroom lock-off, you will see that the studio represent 1/3 and the 1 bedroom, 2/3 of the area. So, if they implement different fee than the studio to the 1 bedroom should have the highest fee. Also, studio are the least popular size.


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## dioxide45

More and more fees for that II gets for free. This is getting to the point of absurd. We all pay a membership fee in one way or another to literally give our weeks to II for FREE. We hope for something in return. The return is now greatly diminished. We would often deposit a 1BR or studio 125 TDI week and trade it for something well under that TDI while bumping up the unit size. What you see online when doing an instant exchange search was supposed to already be comparable inventory to what you are giving up. That apparently isn't the case any longer with these new fees.


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## VacationForever

Another question that comes to mind is what if I have paid an upgrade fee, say from a studio to a 2BR, it costs me $118, I buy ePlus, then I do another retrade to a 1BR at another resort, will it know that I had already paid for a size upgrade once?  Then if I retrade again from a 1BR back to a 2BR, will it charge me another size upgrade fee?  It is making my head spin....


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## VacationForever

dioxide45 said:


> No, the system will still only return "comparable" exchanges, if one of those "comparable" exchanges happens to be larger than the unit you deposited, you will pay the fee. You still won't be able to see anything and everything available in inventory.



Ding! Ding! Ding! Ha! I just did a trade test.  In the past my studio was not able to see NCV and now it returns NCV results, for a $118 exchange fee, I can have a NCV instant exchange!!!  I had been able to trade in a studio to NCV through OGS in the past, just not through instant exchange.  

I think it makes a studio a little better with this new upsize fee!


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## dioxide45

sptung said:


> Ding! Ding! Ding! Ha! I just did a trade test.  In the past my studio was not able to see NCV and now it returns NCV results, for a $118 exchange fee, I can have a NCV instant exchange!!!  I had been able to trade in a studio to NCV through OGS in the past, just not through instant exchange.
> 
> I think it makes a studio a little better with this new upsize fee!



I just did a search for NCV using a studio unit and a 3BR. The 3BR sees four units available where the studio can only see three. The one that is missing is an April 2017 week that the 3BR can see that the studio can't. So inventory is not completely open for the pickings.


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## VacationForever

dioxide45 said:


> I just did a search for NCV using a studio unit and a 3BR. The 3BR sees four units available where the studio can only see three. The one that is missing is an April 2017 week that the 3BR can see that the studio can't. So inventory is not completely open for the pickings.



OK... maybe it gives 1 bump and not 2 bump in trade strengths.


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## dougp26364

We've owned and exchanged since 1998. There have always been changes that required we modify our exchange behavior and, at times, even what/where we owned. This is no different. It will change how members exchange. It will make some things more easily available, some less so.

This past year I've been fortunate enough to rid ourselves of three timeshare ownerships. I had the foresight to join internal exchange programs when I could. I am down to one unit that we might lock-off for a studio unit to exchange into a larger unit and, even that particular unit we don't like to lock off, even though we don't need the space. 

Adaptation is what you have to be good at with timeshare ownership as the playing field continues to change. For some it means getting out, others will adapt. I see an end to the value of timeshare exchange for us in the future but, for now, there remains some value. We are down from 4 or 5 I.I. exchanges to 1 or 2 per year. It's very likely we'll be down to zero exchanges in the near future. 

I've preached own where you're happiest going and/or in a system your happiest remaining in. As the exchange companies find new ways to bill owners, I feel that's becoming more important as time goes by.


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## youppi

Getaways started increasing after ILG bought Hyatt and now those fees happen after ILG bought Starwood. It looks like in place of increasing MF of those owners like DRI do when they buy other TS brands, ILG asked II to pump more money to mommy.


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## Lydlady

I might have to rethink Eagle Crest or some of the Marriotts where they only have 2-bedroom units that I can usually see with a studio.  It's not like there's an option to take a smaller unit.


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## mdurette

Panina said:


> I think  this fee will probably make owners of  high demand studios, one bedroom weeks use Rci instead of II unless they are trading for a comparable time and place.




Just what I am thinking about doing myself.  I'm sitting on 2 July 2017 units to deposit into II (waiting for AC offer).   I'm not thinking about just sending them the 2 BR and give RCI the 1BR.  

But, in the end, I still do like II resorts better.   


For those that trade a 2BR into a 1BR.....can you still XYZ in that scenario?


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## Ricci

To give everyone another point of view..... and don't kill the messenger.

For the owners of 2 and 3 bedroom non lockoff units, this makes us feel like the playing field has leveled out somewhat.  When I would hear and read of all the fantastic uptrades using a studio, and I traded my two bedroom for the same size unit.....  it seemed unfair.  Imho......


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## krj9999

Thoughts:

- To have a change of this magnitude without advanced notice; unacceptable in my view.  This is not a benefit to members, and is not a modest $10 or $20 change in fees.
- Some loosening of trading power requirements may soften the impact, for those with smaller or lock-off units.
- As others indicated, this was not well thought through IMHO.  Those off-season weeks will not turn into exchanges as often.  How multiple EPlus exchanges will be handled is unclear.  Some compensation should be provided for trading down on size.
- It looks like previously purchased EPlus for confirmed exchanges might be grandfathered into the old rules.
- Value proposition for adding Gold or Platinum improves.
- I wonder if Vistana/Starwood and/or Marriott pushed this change onto II management, in order to improve the value proposition of their respective "points" programs where unit size matters.


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## dioxide45

Ricci said:


> To give everyone another point of view..... and don't kill the messenger.
> 
> For the owners of 2 and 3 bedroom non lockoff units, this makes us feel like the playing field has leveled out somewhat.  When I would hear and read of all the fantastic uptrades using a studio, and I traded my two bedroom for the same size unit.....  it seemed unfair.  Imho......



Not sure why you would say to not kill the messenger. You are posting your opinion, not the message.

I do understand how it could be frustrating as an owner of a larger unit. The thing is, II didn't do this for your benefit. They didn't do it to make it more fair. They did it to increase their profit. Charge more for the same thing they did before for weeks that people give them for free.

You always had the option to do what others on here have done for years. Lock off units have been cheap and plentiful on the resale market. While I am bummed about the new fee, we will figure out the new normal and how to maximize the value all over again.


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## CCR

krj9999 said:


> Thoughts:
> 
> - To have a change of this magnitude without advanced notice; unacceptable in my view.  This is not a benefit to members, and is not a modest $10 or $20 change in fees.



I 100% agree.  I just deposited my 2017, 4th of July weeks for a studio and 1 bedroom at Mountainside.  I probably wouldn't have deposited these if I knew this change was coming. I also read on another post that I could have held out on depositing these longer to get an AC offer.  Oh well those are often useless now.  

I will now have to watch for Flexchange exchanges and have a back up reservation at Worldmark that I can cancel.  I'm thinking these units in flexchange are going to become very difficult to get.  Maybe people will buy the eplus just for the security of having a reservation such as a studio in place, buy airfare, and then still have the ability to reserve a larger unit in flexchange if it comes open.   (My Worldmark just became more valuable to me for that backup plan).

My second strategy will probably include changing my exchanging pattern to look for really high valuable weeks that are now visible (that used to not be visible with a studio unit) and pay significant fee to get it.  A 2 bedroom at KoOlina will probably be worth that extra $198.00

I'm really glad I reserved my Grand Luxxe exchange on Friday, but mad I didn't pull the trigger yesterday on my Spring break plans for Vegas.


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## Sugarcubesea

dioxide45 said:


> Charge more for the same thing they did before for weeks that people give them for free.



I guess this is the part that really frosts me, they are using something that I am giving them for free and I'm the one having to pay to join and nickel and dime'd for every use.

I think if its in the area where its up for grabs, you should be able to exchange your unit if you can see it.

I will now be using my SDO unit vs depositing for 2017 and only using the QH I deposited.


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## dougp26364

Let's get one thing straight, the inventory might not be costing them anything but, providing the service is NOT free. There's website development, employee's to man the phone's, office expenses, benefits to be paid et......Anytime that website isn't working exactly right someone will post on here about how the exchange company can't get their act together. Just keeping their website running without to many glitches takes more effort than most of us will ever know.....and it's not FREE. Sometime I think we take other efforts for granted. 

So while you might be "giving" them your week, they're are not providing the exchange service for free. Without their service you'd have to barter with indivicual's yourself to see if you could locate the exchange you wanted or, use what you own and forget exchanging all together.

As to the part about no warning I agree. With timeshare you have to plan in advance and that planning involves strategy of what to lock off and what you expect in return when you want to exchange. I'm fortunate that we completed our exchange of a 1 bedroom elite resort week during a high demand time for a 2 bedroom non-elite resort shoulder season week before these new fee's went into place. As it was I felt it was a fair exchange. Add in the extra $99 upgrade fee and it's no longer a fair trade IMHO. It's also a trade I probably won't make again. I sure as heck won't be trading a 2 bedroom elite resort week for the equivalent size unit at this particular resort. That would be a HUGE step down in quality and value. So even though I might like the location of a particular resort that provides far fewer amenities and comforts than my home resort week, I'm not about to pay for the high dollar resort to trade down into the moderate value resort.

I said earlier that over the years ownership and exchanging has evolved and that's what we're doing again. Yes it irritates me to some degree that I have to keep changing how I look at timeshare in order to get the value out of it I want but, that's how it's always been and that's how it will be in the future. It will be interesting in the next few years to see what's available and what disappears from Interval's Inventory.

What I'd like to see is a credit for the quality rating of my resort when I'm trading down to a resort rated lower. Like I said, going from the 1 bedroom unit at an elite rated resort giving Interval the high demand week in exchange for a larger unit at a lower value resort during shoulder season is, IMHO, an even or fair exchange. Charging me another $99 to do the same thing......not so much. If they're going to charge an "upgrade" fee then I'd like to see a credit when I "downgrade".


----------



## mdurette

On the flip side.....for those of you that NEED a large unit, my guess is you will find more of them.  Personally, we only NEED a 1BR unit when we travel.  But, I will always take a larger one if available simply for the extra bathroom and towels.    I will probably rethink that now and that will leave the larger units out there for people that do need them.


----------



## dougp26364

mdurette said:


> On the flip side.....for those of you that NEED a large unit, my guess is you will find more of them.  Personally, we only NEED a 1BR unit when we travel.  But, I will always take a larger one if available simply for the extra bathroom and towels.    I will probably rethink that now and that will leave the larger units out there for people that do need them.



We've done this in the past but, in large part because we've had some very noisy neighbors in the past. Once I took the 1 bedroom instead of the 2 bedroom that was available and regretted it the entire week. I've never heard a couple make so much noise during the week coming out of a studio unit.


----------



## LMD

*Fee*

I was going to quit RCI now I may think about quitting II.


----------



## CCR

Can anyone tell if there is a still an internal Marriott preference time period or are all units visible to everyone?  It was mentioned that all inventory is now open and visible just with upgrade fees.

If there is still internal Marriott preference/priority for a certain amount of time, where only Marriott owners can see Marriott properties, then my studio may still have some value to snag some great properties. I couldn't see very many Marriott large 2 bedrooms units with my studio until they were 3-4 months out before.


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## icydog

dioxide45 said:


> Not sure why you would say to not kill the messenger. You are posting your opinion, not the message.
> 
> I do understand how it could be frustrating as an owner of a larger unit. The thing is, II didn't do this for your benefit. They didn't do it to make it more fair. They did it to increase their profit. Charge more for the same thing they did before for weeks that people give them for free.
> 
> You always had the option to do what others on here have done for years. Lock off units have been cheap and plentiful on the resale market. While I am bummed about the new fee, we will figure out the new normal and how to maximize the value all over again.



Even though the resort for which I was searching only has two bedroom units, I'm being charged an upgrade fee using my one bedroom villa.  Right now, II is charging minimal fees to upgrade, but once we get accustomed to paying these upgrade fees watch out! The price will go up and up to whatever number they feel like collecting.  
I'm really bummed out by this. II must want to be the new RCI! I pay to join, to upgrade to platinum, to make an exchange, to add EPlus to add insurance Etc, ad infinitum and ad nauseum.


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## Saintsfanfl

I haven't read through the posts but I think this new upgrade fee is ok. One of the reasons why I like it is instead of studios being completely blocked from seeing some of these units you now have the ability to see them and exchange. The only exception is an OGS may previously have pulled some of them anyway but not all units have the fee tacked on.

Another reason I like it is it will increase the availability of larger units. Good inventory disappears too quickly to smaller units. This is a way to balance things out.


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## Saintsfanfl

Size just became way more valuable. Cheap lock-offs that do not contain a studio are huge.


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## Saintsfanfl

E-Plus appears to be locked in, so no upgrade fees with a retrade on any existing E-Plus.


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## icydog

*More and more $*



Saintsfanfl said:


> Size just became way more valuable. Cheap lock-offs that do not contain a studio are huge.



If II had warned me this was going to happen I wouldn't have lockoffed my two 
WillowRidge weeks.  But for an additional $78 it probably makes more sense to pay the fees. 

I had to pay Marriott to lockoff the weeks and then II charges me for each trade.  The cost of exchanging is becoming astronomical.


----------



## SmithOp

Ricci said:


> To give everyone another point of view..... and don't kill the messenger.
> 
> 
> 
> For the owners of 2 and 3 bedroom non lockoff units, this makes us feel like the playing field has leveled out somewhat.  When I would hear and read of all the fantastic uptrades using a studio, and I traded my two bedroom for the same size unit.....  it seemed unfair.  Imho......





I was thinking the same thing when I first read this since I deposit a 2 br.  If it frees up more inventory all the better.  I just traded into a 3br developer deposit without a fee, guess I just got in under the wire.  I will pay the fee, along with platinum membership because I'm still getting good value.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


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## K2Quick

The unit size upgrade fee is really a non-event for me since I belong to a system that charges points for exchanged unit size anyway.  However, I've been using II a lot less recently.  In the five years 2010 to 2014, I booked 13 exchanges with II (of which 5 were XYZ specials so I really deposited the equivalent of 8 weeks with II).  I didn't exchange anything in 2015 with II (booked one week with RCI) and nothing in 2016 (with still a possibility for a last-minute getaway but definitely won't be exchanging).

From my perspective with how I had been using II for exchanging , the trading landscape changed for the worse.  The best weeks (Marriott/Westin/Four Seasons) are tied up in preference and even the internal preference inventory seems to have dried up compared to what it was a few years back.  I've found myself using my internal system more often than not or using RCI (which despite higher fees seems to have more availability during school calendar times).


----------



## VacationForever

CCR said:


> Can anyone tell if there is a still an internal Marriott preference time period or are all units visible to everyone?  It was mentioned that all inventory is now open and visible just with upgrade fees.
> 
> If there is still internal Marriott preference/priority for a certain amount of time, where only Marriott owners can see Marriott properties, then my studio may still have some value to snag some great properties. I couldn't see very many Marriott large 2 bedrooms units with my studio until they were 3-4 months out before.



There is no change to the internal Marriott period.


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## Saintsfanfl

icydog said:


> If II had warned me this was going to happen I wouldn't have lockoffed my two
> WillowRidge weeks.  But for an additional $78 it probably makes more sense to pay the fees.
> 
> I had to pay Marriott to lockoff the weeks and then II charges me for each trade.  The cost of exchanging is becoming astronomical.



Agreed.I just bought a bunch of Marriott units and now I'm not sure what I am going to do. Owner use and renting out has increased in value vs exchanging. It now cost $400 to lock-off and trade a studio for a 2BR.

I think marriott to marriott studio exchanges during preference still have a place because the price of the alternative is likely still more expensive. If you take a lock-off with a $1,250 fee the additional fees would be $600 to trade for two 2BR units. The $1,850 total cost is still lower than any Marriott two 2BR units.

Non-Marriott studios go way down in value. The exchange fees can easily exceed the maintenance fee.

All of this might be a good thing if inventory was going to increase but I suspect other systems like Marriott DC is going to continue to dry up premium inventory.

I can see some positives and some negatives. I love my cheap non-Marriott units even more. Non priority studios are just plain cost prohibitive. I am not sure what to make of Marriott studios. Obviously very expensive but a Willow Ridge lock-off is still cheaper than two 2BR units.


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## tschwa2

> Non-Marriott studios go way down in value. The exchange fees can easily exceed the maintenance fee.



If you have low cost studio's (under $400) that you stopped using with II because you couldn't get anything you wanted, you may want to take another look especially if you have platinum (2 for 1 from recent deal). If they can see more now even with an extra $118-$199 for a 2 br it might be worth it.  As an owner of larger units, I don't like it that I am now competing against studio owners who could never see the units I wanted in the past.


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## tahoeJoe

youppi said:


> The step between a studio and a 1  bedroom is bigger than 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom. Most studio don't have kitchen, a lot sleep only 2 and those that sleep 4, all people sleep in the same room (not practical with young children that go to bed earlier). If you look at most 2 bedroom lock-off, you will see that the studio represent 1/3 and the 1 bedroom, 2/3 of the area. So, if they implement different fee than the studio to the 1 bedroom should have the highest fee. Also, studio are the least popular size.



Oh great... you now gave the greedy jerks at II a reason to charge more for upgrades from studio. I can hear it now, announcing a new *enhancement *from II "_...Coming soon, upgrade from a studio to a 1 bedroom for only $149...._"


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## dominidude

Hey guys, TUG already has a section where TUGers can exchange with each other. There's not even an ad fee or exchange fee for this.

Let's put the screws to exchange companies, and let's exchange with each other instead.

I want some of Admins to contact me, I think we can improve the exchange section of the website to enable us TUGgers to make deposits, make exchange requests, and even have an assigned trade power for each timeshare in order to more or less equitably exchanges with one another.

The only reason II and RCI increase their fees is because they have no competition. Let's give them some :whoopie:


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## Saintsfanfl

Here is a crazy one. The platinum getaway price for a 2BR for mid December at Marriott's Grande Vista is only $247!!!  The exchange fee alone using a Marriott studio for the exchange is $322.  This is even higher than the Basic membership getaway price. You still have to pay another $80 to lock-off but I exclude this so we can compare apples to apples for II's revenue. Does this make any sense at all? 

It makes sense when you figure II would rather have the cash for the getaway then the studio deposit but still seems way unbalanced.


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## dominidude

tschwa2 said:


> If you have low cost studio's (under $400) that you stopped using with II because you couldn't get anything you wanted, you may want to take another look especially if you have platinum (2 for 1 from recent deal). If they can see more now even with an extra $118-$199 for a 2 br it might be worth it.  As an owner of larger units, I don't like it that I am now competing against studio owners who could never see the units I wanted in the past.



Just what I was thinking. In addition to everything said before, it seems to me that II is making it harder for higher occupancy units owners to exchange. I was the owner of a studio which seldomly saw any 2 bedrooms outside flexchange. 

Now that studio (which is still in my account) sees quite a few 2 bedrooms outside flexchange, but I would need to pay the increased exchange fee. And it stills sees quite a few 2 bedroom units in the flexchange period, like before.

It seems that going forward 2bdr unit owners will need to seriously consider A) using their units, not exchanging them B) downsizing when exchanging.

It's a bad deal all around really, as smaller unit owners that have valuable weeks now are not having the value of their time interval recognized. 

In case anybody is wondering, I dont think TUG would be anymore at risk than it is currently if we started our own deposit/request/trade power scheme. 

And there wouldnt be paperwork either, it should be all automated. However, there would be server processing power and space issues that would need to be addressed.

In case it's not already obvious, I could take the lead on this if nobody with more experience does.


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## klpca

Saintsfanfl said:


> Agreed.I just bought a bunch of Marriott units and now I'm not sure what I am going to do. Owner use and renting out has increased in value vs exchanging. It now cost $400 to lock-off and trade a studio for a 2BR.
> 
> I think marriott to marriott studio exchanges during preference still have a place because the price of the alternative is likely still more expensive. If you take a lock-off with a $1,250 fee the additional fees would be $600 to trade for two 2BR units. The $1,850 total cost is still lower than any Marriott two 2BR units.
> 
> Non-Marriott studios go way down in value. The exchange fees can easily exceed the maintenance fee.
> 
> All of this might be a good thing if inventory was going to increase but I suspect other systems like Marriott DC is going to continue to dry up premium inventory.
> 
> I can see some positives and some negatives. I love my cheap non-Marriott units even more. Non priority studios are just plain cost prohibitive. I am not sure what to make of Marriott studios. Obviously very expensive but a Willow Ridge lock-off is still cheaper than two 2BR units.



Not sure where you own, but my San Francisco studio unit trades much, much better anywhere else but Interval. I get over 40tpu's from RCI, and SFX treats it as a 1 bedroom for trading purposes. I haven't deposited my Donatello unit in years even though they constantly offer me an AC (just what I need - an AC with an underlying studio unit. Nearly impossible to use!)


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## dougp26364

Having thought about this for a few days I'll toss out one more opinion/observation.

II could have just as easily gone to a points based exchange system like RCI's and then allowed developers to sell it as an upgrade for thousands of dollars. With points you pay for what you want. The upgrade fee is built in by the points value. DISCLAIMER: I don't understand RCI's points system that well. I became disillusioned with RCI years ago, dropped our individual membership (we still have the HGVC corporate membership) and haven't looked back. 

Interval is instead keeping their weeks based exchange system but charging the upgrade fee in the form of a fixed dollar amount, regardless of the quality of the week or season. It's a flat fee vs a moving target such as RCI's points program. I think I'm happier I.I. stuck with their base program and added the fee vs changing to a points based system that requires members to join and pay a large enrolment fee. 

In the end some things will change but, I bet there's not as much change as TUGGER's believe. The only real change I see for us is I won't take a 2 bedroom unit if I have to pay a fee to do it. I would if someone where to travel with us and, if they paid the fee. We also won't be locking off our 3 bedroom ocean front unit unless I absolutely need that extra week. Since we don't typically need that extra week for an exchange, it's one more studio unit I.I. won't get for an exchange. Somehow I don't see them missing it very much.


----------



## silentg

dougp26364 said:


> Having thought about this for a few days I'll toss out one more opinion/observation.
> 
> II could have just as easily gone to a points based exchange system like RCI's and then allowed developers to sell it as an upgrade for thousands of dollars. With points you pay for what you want. The upgrade fee is built in by the points value. DISCLAIMER: I don't understand RCI's points system that well. I became disillusioned with RCI years ago, dropped our individual membership (we still have the HGVC corporate membership) and haven't looked back.
> 
> Interval is instead keeping their weeks based exchange system but charging the upgrade fee in the form of a fixed dollar amount, regardless of the quality of the week or season. It's a flat fee vs a moving target such as RCI's points program. I think I'm happier I.I. stuck with their base program and added the fee vs changing to a points based system that requires members to join and pay a large enrolment fee.
> 
> In the end some things will change but, I bet there's not as much change as TUGGER's believe. The only real change I see for us is I won't take a 2 bedroom unit if I have to pay a fee to do it. I would if someone where to travel with us and, if they paid the fee. We also won't be locking off our 3 bedroom ocean front unit unless I absolutely need that extra week. Since we don't typically need that extra week for an exchange, it's one more studio unit I.I. won't get for an exchange. Somehow I don't see them missing it very much.


VRI has been charging an upgrade fee for a long time. I bought a studio on Cape Cod, mostly for our use but have traded for other places. II has taken over VRI and I am going to try them for 2017". Going to try for even size trade, I don't like all this extra fees, for size. And this Platinium ,Elite, etc. stuff, I remember the early days of timeshare trades very low fees. Like another thread I Too resent them offering alternatives to where I want to go. Just to make a sale. This is supposed to be fun, not stressful. I may just stay at my home resorts next year since I own where I like to go. 
Silentg


----------



## youppi

dougp26364 said:


> Having thought about this for a few days I'll toss out one more opinion/observation.
> 
> II could have just as easily gone to a points based exchange system like RCI's and then allowed developers to sell it as an upgrade for thousands of dollars. With points you pay for what you want. The upgrade fee is built in by the points value. DISCLAIMER: I don't understand RCI's points system that well. I became disillusioned with RCI years ago, dropped our individual membership (we still have the HGVC corporate membership) and haven't looked back.
> 
> Interval is instead keeping their weeks based exchange system but charging the upgrade fee in the form of a fixed dollar amount, regardless of the quality of the week or season. It's a flat fee vs a moving target such as RCI's points program. I think I'm happier I.I. stuck with their base program and added the fee vs changing to a points based system that requires members to join and pay a large enrolment fee.
> 
> In the end some things will change but, I bet there's not as much change as TUGGER's believe. The only real change I see for us is I won't take a 2 bedroom unit if I have to pay a fee to do it. I would if someone where to travel with us and, if they paid the fee. We also won't be locking off our 3 bedroom ocean front unit unless I absolutely need that extra week. Since we don't typically need that extra week for an exchange, it's one more studio unit I.I. won't get for an exchange. Somehow I don't see them missing it very much.



II have already this. It calls Club Interval Gold. RCI have both system, week and point.


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## Saintsfanfl

youppi said:


> II have already this. It calls Club Interval Gold. RCI have both system, week and point.



This is correct. II has had a points system for years. They are just horrible at promoting it properly.


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## tahoeJoe

Saintsfanfl said:


> Size just became way more valuable. Cheap lock-offs that do not contain a studio are huge.



Agreed, SDO and other Vistana Signature Experience (AKA Starwood) resorts with two connected "one" bedrooms units are worth a lot more than the Marriott lock-offs. Maybe it is time to pick up a SDO 2 bedroom.


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## VacationForever

tahoeJoe said:


> Agreed, SDO and other Vistana Signature Experience (AKA Starwood) resorts with two connected "one" bedrooms units are worth a lot more than the Marriott lock-offs. Maybe it is time to pick up a SDO 2 bedroom.



The other nice thing about VSE is that there is no lock off fee.  I fell off my chair when Marriott told me that there was a lock off fee.  At this point, I am "thinking" of getting rid of all my timeshares except for a couple where they make use of internal trading systems.  If I want to go somewhere, I can use hotel points which I am still sitting on a boatload of, or rent from Tuggers.


----------



## presley

sptung said:


> At this point, I am "thinking" of getting rid of all my timeshares except for a couple where they make use of internal trading systems.  If I want to go somewhere, I can use hotel points which I am still sitting on a boatload of, or rent from Tuggers.



I've slowly been going that route for the reasons above, plus I have found that I'd rather stay in a fancy schmancy hotel than a timeshare in most cases.


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## dougp26364

youppi said:


> II have already this. It calls Club Interval Gold. RCI have both system, week and point.





Saintsfanfl said:


> This is correct. II has had a points system for years. They are just horrible at promoting it properly.



I did know that but, it's a relatively small fraction of I.I. exchanges/reservations when compared to RCI's program.


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## bobpark56

*Hmmmmm....*

Hmmmmm.....Am I correct in thinking that our 2BR off-season week has increased in value when trading for an in-season week...as more of those will be available. But it will have decreased in value when trading for a 1BR unit, as fewer of those will be available...due to owners not willing to pay an upgrade fee?


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## dougp26364

bobpark56 said:


> Hmmmmm.....Am I correct in thinking that our 2BR off-season week has increased in value when trading for an in-season week...as more of those will be available. But it will have decreased in value when trading for a 1BR unit, as fewer of those will be available...due to owners not willing to pay an upgrade fee?



Keep in mind that TUGGER's are probably a little more savvy than your typical timeshare user. We tend to examine and debate things to death until a new strategy is formulated to get the most out of our ownerships.

At this point, everything is pure speculation. Perhaps nothing will really change. Perhaps fewer owners will lock out their unit but will either use the entire unit or exchange the entire unit. Only time will tell.

One observation on the Marriott forums, where the same topic exists, has been that studio units are seeing exchange opportunities they couldn't see before the change. If I.I. is after $$, it would make sense for studio units to see more upgrade opportunities since that would generate additional fee's. and profits. If enough owners take advantage of this new opportunity to upgrade, even for an extra fee, it could actually result if fewer large units remaining available for long. Of course, to upgrade, one has to see it online as an instant exchange unless I.I. loosens the rules for ongoing searches. 

The only thing I can say with reasonable certainty is that we'll be less willing to lock off and trade studio units. Fortunately, we're down to only one unit where that would even be a possibility in I.I. So from my standpoint, I.I. will lose a studio unit and the exchange fee that went with it. Saves me $$ and costs I.I. $$. But I'm betting we'll be the exception and not the rule.


----------



## HighAltitudeDude

dougp26364 said:


> One observation on the Marriott forums, where the same topic exists, has been that studio units are seeing exchange opportunities they couldn't see before the change.



would you please share a link to the above discussion?


----------



## SueDonJ

thelight said:


> would you please share a link to the above discussion?



Here you go:  II unit size upgrade fees


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## downtownrb

dougp26364 said:


> One observation on the Marriott forums, where the same topic exists, has been that studio units are seeing exchange opportunities they couldn't see before the change. If I.I. is after $$, it would make sense for studio units to see more upgrade opportunities since that would generate additional fee's. and profits.



This applied to me as well - I have a cheap studio trader and was happy to pay the extra $59 to confirm the Renaissance in Aruba for October today, rather than waiting for the 59 day mark as would normally be required for my trader.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

This makes going platinum even more automatic now. It used to be if you needed more than 2 getaways or guest certificates a year but now it is more than 2 of those two groups as well as upgrades. Doesn't take much at all to exceed the break even.


----------



## VacationForever

Saintsfanfl said:


> This makes going platinum even more automatic now. It used to be if you needed more than 2 getaways or guest certificates a year but now it is more than 2 of those two groups as well as upgrades. Doesn't take much at all to exceed the break even.



I missed that part.  Why does platinum membership make upgrade cheaper?


----------



## sb2313

sptung said:


> I missed that part.  Why does platinum membership make upgrade cheaper?



$59 per step upgrade fee vs $99 On a standard membership.


----------



## tschwa2

The upgrade fee is $99 per step with a standard membership,
$79 per step with a gold membership, and
$59 per step with a platinum membership.


----------



## VacationForever

...ah thanks. I only see the $59 per step up, so I thought that was standard.


----------



## Sugarcubesea

I'm now going to seriously use this great feature that TUG provides.   I agree if we can expand this and make it great, it will allow many of us to realize a cost save. 




dominidude said:


> Hey guys, TUG already has a section where TUGers can exchange with each other. There's not even an ad fee or exchange fee for this.
> 
> Let's put the screws to exchange companies, and let's exchange with each other instead.
> 
> I want some of Admins to contact me, I think we can improve the exchange section of the website to enable us TUGgers to make deposits, make exchange requests, and even have an assigned trade power for each timeshare in order to more or less equitably exchanges with one another.
> 
> The only reason II and RCI increase their fees is because they have no competition. Let's give them some :whoopie:


----------



## dioxide45

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm now going to seriously use this great feature that TUG provides.   I agree if we can expand this and make it great, it will allow many of us to realize a cost save.



Just don't expect any uptrades using this method like you might have experienced in II. No one wants to downtrade, in order to uptrade a private exchange, someone has to downgrade.


----------



## icydog

dioxide45 said:


> Just don't expect any uptrades using this method like you might have experienced in II. No one wants to downtrade, in order to uptrade a private exchange, someone has to downgrade.



I traded a Five weeknight, September studio at Disney's Beach Club Villas Resort for a Sanibel Cottages Spring Break week plus $300 I threw in.  

So if someone wants what you have-- they will trade down. I admit this is an extreme example though and has never happened again :whoopie:


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## tschwa2

dioxide45 said:


> Just don't expect any uptrades using this method like you might have experienced in II. No one wants to downtrade, in order to uptrade a private exchange, someone has to downgrade.




I don't mind like for like if there isn't another $175-$300 fee thrown in.  You do still face the problem of owners overvaluing what they have to exchange.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> We are principally 'uptraders' with II. So, this was a slap in the face to us. I already pay an annual membership fee, and a transaction fee every time I exercise that membership. Now, they want me to pay a 3rd fee that for a Studio to 3BR uptrade will drive my exchange fee from $129 to over $300 ... That is offensive.
> 
> I get that I can still make like for like exchanges at current rates. I get that I can make a flexchange uptrade at current rates, (assuming that time frame works for us in the future). I get that II may just be doing/charging what others (RCI) already are. Etc., Etc., Etc.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no 'spin' that is going to change the reality that II is trying to collect more than twice as much from me to make the same exchanges that I have been making for the past 6 years of my membership. And since they are not making this change due to some increase in 'business costs', it smacks of the worst form of motive ... Greed.
> 
> I hope owners will refuse to pay this new 'profit' fee. I certainly will be, assuming we choose to renew our membership and not just exchange internally through Marriott via the DC points system or Florida Club.
> 
> If II had a room, I would send them to it so they can think about what they have done.



Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic in the Marriott forum. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.

If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.

$129 + $297 = $426 to make an exchange (not counting your annual membership fee)? 

Stop the insanity...!!!


----------



## VacationForever

kds4 said:


> Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic in the Marriott forum. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.
> 
> If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.
> 
> $129 + $297 = $426 to make an exchange (not counting your annual membership fee)?
> 
> Stop the insanity...!!!



Don't forget that 3BR owner pays way more MF than a studio owner, probably in the region of about 1.5K to 2K more.  $426 is still a steal to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR.


----------



## kds4

sptung said:


> Don't forget that 3BR owner pays way more MF than a studio owner, probably in the region of about 1.5K to 2K more.  $426 is still a steal to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR.



Couldn't I just buy a Getaway with that money? I can keep my week and not have to deposit it with II. I get 2 trips for the $426 spent instead of just the one exchange and II loses out on another 2BR/3BR deposit from me (making one less in inventory for anyone else to get access to).

Sounds like the 'uptrade' fee could work against II in that scenario. They may sell more Getaways but could also see a potential drop in deposited weeks.


----------



## kds4

sptung said:


> Don't forget that 3BR owner pays way more MF than a studio owner, probably in the region of about 1.5K to 2K more.  $426 is still a steal to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR.



I get that as my deposits to II have been from locking off my 3BR units, and I'm paying those higher maintenance fees.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

kds4 said:


> Couldn't I just buy a Getaway with that money?



It depends on what you are after. If it is bare bones leftovers then getaways are the way to go for sure. On the flip side decent weeks are not cheap as getaways and high demand weeks will likely never be available.


----------



## tashamen

dioxide45 said:


> Just don't expect any uptrades using this method like you might have experienced in II. No one wants to downtrade, in order to uptrade a private exchange, someone has to downgrade.



I don't think everyone out there wants/expects upgrades.  I looked through my 26 II exchanges, and only 5 of them were upgrades in size, 5 were downgrades in size, and the remaining 16 were to equal size units.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

tashamen said:


> I don't think everyone out there wants/expects upgrades.  I looked through my 26 II exchanges, and only 5 of them were upgrades in size, 5 were downgrades in size, and the remaining 16 were to equal size units.



There is a lot more than just size. I have many exchanges where I traded down in size but what I used cost half the fee of the smaller size unit. That may be an downgrade in size but in reality it is an upgrade. If I was exchanging with another owner they would not really view it as an equal trade even though they would be getting a larger unit.

Then there is the season like Gold trading for platinum where it might be the same size and the same maintenance fee but not an equal trade.

This whole upgrade fee program causes a shift in value of various units. You are going to see people targeting larger units with lower fees more aggressively than they were before.


----------



## Quadmaniac

Saintsfanfl said:


> This whole upgrade fee program causes a shift in value of various units. You are going to see people targeting larger units with lower fees more aggressively than they were before.



You think people will do that to save $59-297 ? Won't that in turn increase the demand for these units and bring their resulting resale price up as well ? 

Stepping back, I think this is a bit overblown. Yes I don't like idea of paying more either but I still think overall it is still a pretty good deal and much better than trying to trade directly with another owner as I don't think you would get away with giving them a studio and $297 + $184 for their 3 br unit.


----------



## rickandcindy23

No wonder my studios at Marriott's Willow Ridge Lodge have had such good trading power.  It's much better for II and its bottom-line to give me great trading power.  

I honestly don't care as much as others do......but I have always thought II was a bit of a crapshoot for exchanges anyway, and now the retrade fee and the many people competing for great last-minute stuff.  All of it is good for II and makes us log into II more often to see what we can get.


----------



## Sugarcubesea

dioxide45 said:


> Just don't expect any uptrades using this method like you might have experienced in II. No one wants to downtrade, in order to uptrade a private exchange, someone has to downgrade.



I'm thinking if I trade my 2 bedroom to a Tugger, I would expect a 2 bedroom for myself in exchange vs a 1 bedroom or studio.  In this way both of us would get a two bedroom, even steven


----------



## rickandcindy23

tashamen said:


> I don't think everyone out there wants/expects upgrades.  I looked through my 26 II exchanges, and only 5 of them were upgrades in size, 5 were downgrades in size, and the remaining 16 were to equal size units.



That is what I see in my account too.  I don't think this is a make or break deal for most people.  I did get a 3 bedroom for Grande Vista in summer for a 1 bed Willow Ridge once.  That would have been worth the upgrade fee, if I had to pay it.  All of us staying in one unit, the two of us in our own private lockoff unit and not paying two exchange fees and two deposits for two units--totally worth it.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Quadmaniac said:


> You think people will do that to save $59-297 ? Won't that in turn increase the demand for these units and bring their resulting resale price up as well ?
> 
> Stepping back, I think this is a bit overblown. Yes I don't like idea of paying more either but I still think overall it is still a pretty good deal and much better than trying to trade directly with another owner as I don't think you would get away with giving them a studio and $297 + $184 for their 3 br unit.



Look. All I am saying is I like my fixed week 2BR non-Marriott that has an annual fee of only $395 and the same trading power as the best 2BR Platinum Marriott Willow Ridge even more than I did before. The good value in a low fee high trading power 2BR unit has increased even further. That is a fact.

Is it still worth it to pay the upgrade fees? Absolutely, but there are there 2BR units out there where the cost might be far less. 

I own Willow Ridge too and lots of other Marriott's so I have a very unbiased perspective on the value I am describing.
I like to keep Marriott's for those tougher trades where preference might be needed, but to be honest the vast majority of my Marriott exchanges were done with non-Marriotts. The way preference is programmed it has flaws.


----------



## Mr. Vker

I did learn from an II Marriott rep today that all e-trade plus requests/exchanges in place before this fee do NOT have to pay upgrade costs on retrades even after the fees went into place. Call II to get them waived. Future exchanges will incur the cost.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Mr. Vker said:


> I did learn from an II Marriott rep today that all e-trade plus requests/exchanges in place before this fee do NOT have to pay upgrade costs on retrades even after the fees went into place. Call II to get them waived. Future exchanges will incur the cost.



There shouldn't be any need to call. The system is automatic and does not charge anything for existing E-plus.


----------



## Mr. Vker

Saintsfanfl said:


> There shouldn't be any need to call. The system is automatic and does not charge anything for existing E-plus.



Even better. This person said to call. Looks like they have all of the info together.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Mr. Vker said:


> Even better. This person said to call. Looks like they have all of the info together.



Well maybe if you like to call to exchange the rep may accidentally charge. Doing it online it doesn't charge. I avoid calling II like the plague.


----------



## alexadeparis

I understand why people are so upset, but let me tell you what will be next. Most likely there will be an up charge for elite resorts. Or worse, perhaps one for going to a higher rating than your own even if only premier. 

The reason I know is because that is exactly what happened to me yesterday with Shell. While they have always charged more points for either larger units or the higher TDI ratings (which imho seems fair), effective yesterday, it is more points for elite than premier, premier than select, and select than no rating. So while my Shell points still cost the same (very high) MF, they have been significantly demoted as a trader, because more points are now required to effectuate an exchange (that exchange cost 60% less last year).


----------



## youppi

alexadeparis said:


> I understand why people are so upset, but let me tell you what will be next. Most likely there will be an up charge for elite resorts. Or worse, perhaps one for going to a higher rating than your own even if only premier.
> 
> The reason I know is because that is exactly what happened to me yesterday with Shell. While they have always charged more points for either larger units or the higher TDI ratings (which imho seems fair), effective yesterday, it is more points for elite than premier, premier than select, and select than no rating. So while my Shell points still cost the same (very high) MF, they have been significantly demoted as a trader, because more points are now required to effectuate an exchange (that exchange cost 60% less last year).



DRI is like that since the beginning (Sunterra have that when DRI bought them in 2007). DRI have 3 grids based on the resort quality (Premium, Moderate and low value). Those grids are not directly aligned with the II rating (elite, premier, select, unrated). I never understand why other brands had only one grid and also splitted differently (TDI range). Only DRI and Marriott's grids have the same TDI range (50-85, 90-110, 115-135, 140-150).
Could you post your new grids please, thanks ? I will add them to my grids collections. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1858526&postcount=6


----------



## icydog

rickandcindy23 said:


> No wonder my studios at Marriott's Willow Ridge Lodge have had such good trading power.  It's much better for II and its bottom-line to give me great trading power.
> 
> I honestly don't care as much as others do......but I have always thought II was a bit of a crapshoot for exchanges anyway, and now the retrade fee and the many people competing for great last-minute stuff.  All of it is good for II and makes us log into II more often to see what we can get.



I routinely traded my two (2) Marriott's Willow Ridge Plat units for two bedroom units in other Marriott's-- Especially during FlexChange time.  I traded the studio or one bedroom for Marriott two bedrooms in Aruba, Cypress Harbour, Lakeshore Reserve, Ocean Pointe, Desert Springs, Fairway Villas (a trade I do, did, all the time) and several resorts on Hilton Head Island.  

Now I won't be able to do this since I think Flextime is a thing of the past.


----------



## alexadeparis

youppi said:


> DRI is like that since the beginning (Sunterra have that when DRI bought them in 2007). DRI have 3 grids based on the resort quality (Premium, Moderate and low value). Those grids are not directly aligned with the II rating (elite, premier, select, unrated). I never understand why other brands had only one grid and also splitted differently (TDI range). Only DRI and Marriott's grids have the same TDI range (50-85, 90-110, 115-135, 140-150).
> Could you post your new grids please, thanks ? I will add them to my grids collections. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1858526&postcount=6



Not sure I know what I am doing, but here it is.


----------



## youppi

alexadeparis said:


> Not sure I know what I am doing, but here it is.



Thanks. 
Wow. They got you good. Now, you pay more for Select, Premier and Elite than in the past but a little less than in the past for unrated resorts.
You are still lucky that they have kept the 3 seasons range (low 50-85, mid 90-115, high/peak 120-150) because if they had changed it to a 4 seasons grid like DRI and Marriott's (low 50-85, mid 90-110, high 115-135, peak 140-150) then they would have added another 1000 pts for the peak season 140-150 tdi for each size.
This remind me when II past from the green, yellow, red seasons grid to the 4 seasons TDI grid. They increased the number of point big time for us, Sunterra members. At the same time DRI bought us and they increased big time our MF per points. So, we have been hit twice.


----------



## Quadmaniac

Saintsfanfl said:


> Look. All I am saying is I like my fixed week 2BR non-Marriott that has an annual fee of only $395 and the same trading power as the best 2BR Platinum Marriott Willow Ridge even more than I did before. The good value in a low fee high trading power 2BR unit has increased even further. That is a fact.
> 
> Is it still worth it to pay the upgrade fees? Absolutely, but there are there 2BR units out there where the cost might be far less.
> 
> I own Willow Ridge too and lots of other Marriott's so I have a very unbiased perspective on the value I am describing.
> I like to keep Marriott's for those tougher trades where preference might be needed, but to be honest the vast majority of my Marriott exchanges were done with non-Marriotts. The way preference is programmed it has flaws.



Good point. If it pulls the same units as those with Marriott priority, why not ? I get what you are saying.


----------



## dougp26364

A couple of things I'm seeing:

1. There was a time when it was more advantagous to own the very cheapest MF resorts because they exchanged very well into the very expensive MF resorts. At the time South African resorts were the way to go. Many also owned in Sunterra, which became DRI, because Sunterra kept MF's low at the cost of proper maintenance at their resorts. 

That switched a few years back and you really didn't see a lot about buying cheap MF weeks as exchangers for high MF weeks. It seems as if the worm has turned and the advantage is back to the low MF weeks used to "upgrade" to the higher fee resort weeks. The difference is I.I. has figured out how to turn a profit from the exchange.

2. I had up traded from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom week prior to the new fee's. We thought about changing that vacation in both date and location. When I went to see about a re-trade, the upgrade fee was present on all 2 bedroom units. It appears the fee is attached to the original unit used for exchange, not the unit exchanged into. Which begs the question, if I use a smaller unit to trade into a larger unit, then have to change my reservation, will I be subjected to the upgrade fee on the re-trade? If so, does this also hold true for E-plus retrades?

For us the one consitant for exchanging through either RCI or I.I. is that the rules are going to change as time goes on. What was a good strategy for exchange 10 years ago doesn't work as well today. I hold true to the idea of own at the resort or in the resort system you'll be happy with if you could never make another exchange again. If not, a good buy/sell strategy should be in place and, I've seen TUGGERS who have managed to do just that beautifully over the years.


----------



## tashamen

Saintsfanfl said:


> There is a lot more than just size. I have many exchanges where I traded down in size but what I used cost half the fee of the smaller size unit. That may be an downgrade in size but in reality it is an upgrade. If I was exchanging with another owner they would not really view it as an equal trade even though they would be getting a larger unit.
> 
> Then there is the season like Gold trading for platinum where it might be the same size and the same maintenance fee but not an equal trade.



I don't disagree in the least - I was just simplifying based on size.  When I look at my II exchanges in this light, I'd say that 8 were upgrades, 7 were downgrades and 11 about equal exchanges.


----------



## glmyers

*Things change*



dougp26364 said:


> A couple of things I'm seeing:
> 
> 1. There was a time when it was more advantagous to own the very cheapest MF resorts because they exchanged very well into the very expensive MF resorts. At the time South African resorts were the way to go. Many also owned in Sunterra, which became DRI, because Sunterra kept MF's low at the cost of proper maintenance at their resorts.
> 
> That switched a few years back and you really didn't see a lot about buying cheap MF weeks as exchangers for high MF weeks. It seems as if the worm has turned and the advantage is back to the low MF weeks used to "upgrade" to the higher fee resort weeks. The difference is I.I. has figured out how to turn a profit from the exchange.
> 
> 2. I had up traded from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom week prior to the new fee's. We thought about changing that vacation in both date and location. When I went to see about a re-trade, the upgrade fee was present on all 2 bedroom units. It appears the fee is attached to the original unit used for exchange, not the unit exchanged into. Which begs the question, if I use a smaller unit to trade into a larger unit, then have to change my reservation, will I be subjected to the upgrade fee on the re-trade? If so, does this also hold true for E-plus retrades?
> 
> For us *the one constant for exchanging through either RCI or I.I. is that the rules are going to change as time goes on*. What was a good strategy for exchange 10 years ago doesn't work as well today. I hold true to the idea of own at the resort or in the resort system you'll be happy with if you could never make another exchange again. If not, a good buy/sell strategy should be in place and, I've seen TUGGERS who have managed to do just that beautifully over the years.


Change is indeed "the one constant" and the next change for me is letting my Internal International membership expire in February after twenty-five years of using it.


----------



## hjtug

*No longer seeing the upgrade fees on instant searches*

I started seeing the upgrade fees on the day this thread started.  Yesterday I noticed that the upgrade fees were no longer showing up.  Same today.  I just completed an instant exchange using a studio to get a two-bedroom and no upgrade fee was charged.

Anyone else having the same experience?


----------



## Quadmaniac

hjtug said:


> I started seeing the upgrade fees on the day this thread started.  Yesterday I noticed that the upgrade fees were no longer showing up.  Same today.  I just completed an instant exchange using a studio to get a two-bedroom and no upgrade fee was charged.
> 
> Anyone else having the same experience?



Was it within 59 days ? Flex exchanges do not incur upgrade fees.


----------



## donnaval

Flex change seems to be changing.  I have two weeks with e-plus on them.  One is a 2-br unit in a mediocre resort that I deposited late.  The other is a week 52 studio unit in a ski resort that has always been an awesome trader.  Since it always traded so well, I always deposited it.  But here's what I see with this former tiger trader within flex change (USA only up to 8/28 only):

Arizona, Phoenix Area
Arizona, Tucson Area
California and Nevada, Lake Tahoe
California, Palm Springs & Palm Desert
California, San Diego Area
Colorado, Vail, Avon & Beaver Creek
Florida, Fort Lauderdale, Western
Florida, Orlando
Idaho
Missouri, Branson
Missouri, Lake Ozark
Nevada, Las Vegas
Nevada, Mesquite
New Jersey, Atlantic City
Utah, Park City and Snowbird
Virginia, Williamsburg

With the mediocre 2-br that was deposited late, I see all these:

Arizona, Phoenix Area
Arizona, Tucson Area
California and Nevada, Lake Tahoe
California, Big Bear Lake
California, Palm Springs & Palm Desert
California, San Diego Area
Colorado, Breckenridge
Colorado, Vail, Avon & Beaver Creek
Florida, Cocoa Beach
Florida, Daytona Beach Area
Florida, Fort Lauderdale, Western
Florida, Fort Myers
Florida, Miami Beach
Florida, Orlando
Hawaii, Maui
Hawaii, Oahu
Idaho
Minnesota
Missouri, Branson
Missouri, Lake Ozark
Nevada, Las Vegas
Nevada, Mesquite
Nevada, Reno
New Jersey, Atlantic City
North Carolina, Banner Elk & Boone
Pennsylvania, Poconos
Texas, Central
Utah, Park City and Snowbird
Virginia, Shenandoah
Virginia, Williamsburg
West Virginia

There are almost twice as many options offered for the larger, mediocre unit.  I never noticed this huge of a discrepancy before when searching in flex change, regardless of the weeks I used.  This is troubling.


----------



## Beefnot

It pays to log into TUG regularly and keep up with the latest developments. I wish I would have seen this thread before I locked off and deposited one of my cheap traders this past Saturday. I would have deposited the 2BR intact, seeing as I kinda own more weeks than I can personally use really. Dammit.


----------



## hjtug

Quadmaniac said:


> Was it within 59 days ? Flex exchanges do not incur upgrade fees.



Check-in date is Oct. 23 for the studio/two bedroom exchange I completed today with no upgrade charge in an instant search.  I searched for the next year and saw no upgrade fees.  Is everyone else still seeing upgrade fees?


----------



## Quadmaniac

hjtug said:


> Check-in date is Oct. 23 for the studio/two bedroom exchange I completed today with no upgrade charge in an instant search.  I searched for the next year and saw no upgrade fees.  Is everyone else still seeing upgrade fees?



I am still seeing the upgrade fees.


----------



## dougp26364

glmyers said:


> Change is indeed "the one constant" and the next change for me is letting my Internal International membership expire in February after twenty-five years of using it.



We have a personal account and 2 corporate accounts. I'm seriously thinking the personal account will become history. We dropped our RCI account several years ago, although we still have a corporate account through HGVC.


----------



## hjtug

Quadmaniac said:


> I am still seeing the upgrade fees.



Strange.  I am trading with Wyndham units.  Could this be a factor?  I have sent a private message to another one of the few Wyndham/II traders that I know of


----------



## sue1947

Checking with a Worldmark 2 BR deposit, I also see the upgrade fees.  

Sue


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I see upgrade fees with all my deposit types except no fees within 60 days out. Is it possible a unit already deposited doesn't have upgrade fees? Or maybe kjtug caught a glitch.


----------



## smtundra

They agent at II said the upgrade fee was about the number of people it slept.  Not necessarily the size of the unit.  Hmmm?

Also, I believe that this was done strictly as a way to earn more fees.  I don't think it will show you more or less of what is out in the system.

If I have a high demand 1 bedroom July beach week in Virginia Beach, I should be able to have an even trade for a 2 bedroom off season week in Orlando.  That is why I own high demand weeks.

I told the agent, that I will likely rent / keep my units and deposit less high demand weeks.  They always send me incentives to deposit, but I usually don't need to.  I think high demand inventory will decrease.


----------



## Weimaraner

smtundra said:


> If I have a high demand 1 bedroom July beach week in Virginia Beach, I should be able to have an even trade for a 2 bedroom off season week in Orlando.  That is why I own high demand weeks.



That's exactly how I feel. I own prime season winter months in Aruba and summer at Atlantis. I did test searches with the new II and they want me to believe it's fair to give up my summer Harborside 1 bed for an off-season January Orlando 2 bedroom AND pay extra. I don't think so.


----------



## youppi

II posted this today on the II community :
Hello Interval members,

We have heard your concerns and apologize for not providing advance notice about the new unit-size upgrade fee. We assure you that we will improve our communications in the future.



Prior to launching this fee, we reviewed data and conducted member research to better understand member behavior and inventory utilization. We learned that members often confirm larger units than are necessary to accommodate their travel party. This finding, along with the fact that points-based members already relinquish more points when receiving a larger unit, the trend toward shorter booking windows, and other factors, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee. As always, if a unit-size upgrade is offered during Flexchange, there is no additional fee.



The unit-size upgrade fee supports Interval’s commitment to providing comparable exchanges to members around the world. Our inventory control and optimization processes are designed to create the greatest number of exchange opportunities possible for members, while maintaining fairness across the system.



For more information, please see “Inventory Control and Optimization – Comparable Exchange for Weeks Ownership” in the Document Library.
View attachment Comparable_Exchange_Overview.pdf


Thank you for your input, participation in Community, and membership in Interval International.


----------



## Ken555

I think that's an amusing response by II. I don't recall ever searching for units based on the accurate number of people in my party, since I want to see all available units and not just those that II thinks are eligible for my party size. If that's the extent of their research....well, of course it is. Sad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## youppi

Ken555 said:


> I think that's an amusing response by II. I don't recall ever searching for units based on the accurate number of people in my party, since I want to see all available units and not just those that II thinks are eligible for my party size. If that's the extent of their research....well, of course it is. Sad.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I imagine when they said that, they got the stats (the number of people checked-in) from resorts and they saw that a lot of couple checked-in in a 2 or 3 bdrm where they should have taken only a 1 bdrm.


----------



## Ken555

youppi said:


> I imagine when they said that, they got the stats (the number of people checked-in) from resorts and they saw that a lot of couple checked-in in a 2 or 3 bdrm where they should have taken only a 1 bdrm.





I highly doubt II actually receives accurate or any feedback from the resorts on how many people check in to a unit. You are giving them wayyyyyy too much credit.


----------



## dougp26364

youppi said:


> II posted this today on the II community :
> Hello Interval members,
> 
> We have heard your concerns and apologize for not providing advance notice about the new unit-size upgrade fee. We assure you that we will improve our communications in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to launching this fee, we reviewed data and conducted member research to better understand member behavior and inventory utilization. We learned that members often confirm larger units than are necessary to accommodate their travel party. This finding, along with the fact that points-based members already relinquish more points when receiving a larger unit, the trend toward shorter booking windows, and other factors, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee. As always, if a unit-size upgrade is offered during Flexchange, there is no additional fee.
> 
> 
> 
> The unit-size upgrade fee supports Interval’s commitment to providing comparable exchanges to members around the world. Our inventory control and optimization processes are designed to create the greatest number of exchange opportunities possible for members, while maintaining fairness across the system.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information, please see “Inventory Control and Optimization – Comparable Exchange for Weeks Ownership” in the Document Library.
> View attachment 2724
> 
> 
> Thank you for your input, participation in Community, and membership in Interval International.



Whomever wrote that probably should be running for office somewhere. So much BS and so little fact. 

The long and short of it is, I.I. saw a way to make a buck and they took it. No warning, no real good reason. Just taking a page from the airline industry playbook in finding "upgrade" fee's for the same product that was free yesterday.


----------



## BJRSanDiego

I learned a new word today that applies to ii's response:  pecksniffian.


----------



## Beefnot

Weimaraner said:


> That's exactly how I feel. I own prime season winter months in Aruba and summer at Atlantis. I did test searches with the new II and they want me to believe it's fair to give up my summer Harborside 1 bed for an off-season January Orlando 2 bedroom AND pay extra. I don't think so.



Perhaps they should do an trading power overlay that dynamically determines whether a unit upgrade fee should be assessed based on the relationship between what one is depositing vs. what they are exchanging into.


----------



## Beefnot

I am really ticked off about this II change, particularly given that I have been toying with booking a 3BR Grand Luxxe unit next year for around $70 per night including MFs and exchange fees.  Paying $28 per night extra in upgrade fees sucks.  Still a good deal, but sucks nonetheless.


----------



## davidvel

youppi said:


> II posted this today on the II community :
> Hello Interval members,
> . . .
> Prior to launching this fee, *we reviewed data* and conducted member research to better understand member behavior and inventory utilization. *We learned* that* members often confirm larger units than are necessary to accommodate their travel party*. This finding


I have no problem stating that this is the biggest load of horse $h!t that has ever been laid. Or in other words, a bald faced lie. What data does II get about how many people *actually occupy* a traded unit? (Hint: none, zero). I've never been asked in any timeshare check in how many people I have. And if anyone has, it undoubtedly wasn't relayed back to II. 

Has it ever happened that people have less than occupancy? Of course. Probably not as often as those people that cram 5-8 people in a unit that has a 4 person limit. 

They probably base this "reviewed data" on the fact that most people don't populate the form fields that state how many "Adults" and "Children (Age 0-16)" beyond 1 adult that is the default when you search.


----------



## kds4

davidvel said:


> I have no problem stating that this is the biggest load of horse $h!t that has ever been laid. Or in other words, a bald faced lie. What data does II get about how many people *actually occupy* a traded unit? (Hint: none, zero). I've never been asked in any timeshare check in how many people I have. And if anyone has, it undoubtedly wasn't relayed back to II.
> 
> Has it ever happened that people have less than occupancy? Of course. Probably not as often as those people that cram 5-8 people in a unit that has a 4 person limit.
> 
> They probably base this "reviewed data" on the fact that most people don't populate the form fields that state how many "Adults" and "Children (Age 0-16)" beyond 1 adult that is the default when you search.



True for me as well. I've never been asked at check-in and I do not bother to change my search criterion from the default '1 Occupant' when I search. The closest I think anyone gets is "How many keys would you like?".


----------



## donnaval

Agree - I just use the default 1 person when searching so II has no idea how many people I'm looking to accommodate.  Sometimes I am asked at resorts to list all occupants.  Sometimes not.  I can't imagine that info goes back to II.   Besides, what business is it of II's whether I take a larger unit than I "need" or not?  It's not their unit.  If I'm traveling with DH and mom, I want a 2-br, 2 bath but I should only "need" a 1-br 1 bath that sleeps 4 and put my 84-year-old mom on the sofa bed?  

I just checked and my ski studio week 52 gets huge TPUs from RCI.  I may toy around with renting it next year.  If not, it'll go into RCI.


----------



## tschwa2

As per the comments on II and some here, there are those who will no longer automatically go for the 2 br unit when there is only 2 travelling just in case others may join.  They will check if others are joining and then ask them to pay the upgrade charge.  If that is the case it will free up some 2 br so the family of 4 won't to take the 1 br because it is the only thing left. There have been comments from others that they won't lock off and will deposit the whole 2 br because they don't need a studio deposit that would require extra fees.  If that is the case then again the fee did its job.


PI, DAE, basic SFX and others all charge the size upgrade fee and they don't have any inventory I really want.  So depositing a 1 br would require me to pay the exchange and upgrade fee for inventory that I am only taking to keep from losing my deposit from expiring- Williamsburg was my only East Coast choice.  *If* the change really increases inventory for larger units that I want then it may be worth depositing a 2 br unit or paying then upgrade fee when I deposit something smaller and want a 2 or 3 br.

Yes it would be stupid to exchange a 1 br oceanfront Hawaii for a September Orlando 3 br paying an extra $198 upgrade fee.  Maybe there will be sales to get rid of excess off season units- we'll see.  Otherwise I will just use II less and maybe even drop my basic and platinum membership completely for my voluntary units.


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## klpca

FYI - On the Marriott forum, Dioxide pointed out this thread http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242441&highlight=survey regarding a survery about exchanging into larger units. I guess those who responded felt differently about the fees? Interval rolled this out so poorly. What a mess.

My Donatello studio is a sucky trader in Interval (because it is a studio) and an amazing trader in RCI or SFX (because they value the location). So if you have a dual affiliated resort, definitely vote with your feet. The funny thing is that I get regular AC offers for the Donatello unit from Interval (an AC with an underlying studio deposit - pretty useless honestly), and they call me to ask me to deposit it, but then treat it like an ugly stepchild for trading purposes. We just stayed there this weekend. The location is the best in SF - next door to the Westin St. Francis and across the street from the JW Marriott, offers daily maid service and nightly turndown service, and provides the San Francisco Chronicle at the door each morning, among other things. Yet for Interval's purpose, it's no better than an offseason Marriott studio (I own one of those so I should know  ). Nope - I'll never deposit my Donatello week unit to Interval. Especially now with the new upgrade charges.

I personally don't plan to pay any of those charges. I have been keeping a list of nicer studios for a while since my studios have always been a difficult trade, and I will be using my one bedrooms to trade into other one bedroom units, since we are ok with those most of the time. I also have a new cheap two bedroom trader that I will try out to see what it will pull. If I would like a 2 bedroom, I will try waiting for flex. If I absolutely _need_ a 2 bedroom, I would probably save the lockoff fee from my Marriott and just deposit the full two bedroom, primarily to improve my chance of a match. I'm not sure if I will keep adding eplus or not. I haven't made up my mind.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

smtundra said:


> They agent at II said the upgrade fee was about the number of people it slept.  Not necessarily the size of the unit.  Hmmm.



That is probably not true. II really only uses private sleeping capacity for requests and such and not the total capacity. When I go to exchange a 1BR with a private capacity of 4 and find a 2BR also with a private capacity of 4 it prompts for the upgrade fee. The same thing happens using a 2BR with a 6 and exchanging for a 3BR also with a 6.

There are 1BR units with a total capacity of 6 but I do not have one in my account to use for a test. I am betting that it will still prompt for an upgrade fee if exchanging for a 2BR with a total of 6.


----------



## youppi

Saintsfanfl said:


> That is probably not true. II really only uses private sleeping capacity for requests and such and not the total capacity. When I go to exchange a 1BR with a private capacity of 4 and find a 2BR also with a private capacity of 4 it prompts for the upgrade fee. The same thing happens using a 2BR with a 6 and exchanging for a 3BR also with a 6.
> 
> There are 1BR units with a total capacity of 6 but I do not have one in my account to use for a test. I am betting that it will still prompt for an upgrade fee if exchanging for a 2BR with a total of 6.



Try a search for ASU with your 1 bdrm 124 and 144. There is a 244 for September 24-October 1 (out of Flex change). I'm points owner so I can't say if there is a fee upgrade or not.


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## Saintsfanfl

youppi said:


> Try a search for ASU with your 1 bdrm 124 and 144. There is a 244 for September 24-October 1 (out of Flex change). I'm points owner so I can't say if there is a fee upgrade or not.



I do not have any 124's to try but there is still an upgrade fee for my 144 for the 244 so there you have it. Capacity has zero to do with it. It is the bedroom size only.

Thanks a bunch for a resort with a 244 to use for a test. Have to love random reps completely making things up.


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## dougp26364

Saintsfanfl said:


> I see upgrade fees with all my deposit types except no fees within 60 days out. Is it possible a unit already deposited doesn't have upgrade fees? Or maybe kjtug caught a glitch.



I had a 1 bedroom unit deposited and already exchanged into a 2 bedroom unit prior to the initiation of the fee's. I thought about re-trading to another location but, when I went to re-trade, they wanted me to pay the $99 upgrade fee to re-exchange into another 2 bedroom unit in a different location. 

So I'd say that having a unit on deposit prior to the initiation of the fee's isn't accurate. At least in my case it doesn't appear to be.


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## pchung6

I just tried to retrade my confirmed exchange before the fee, it seems I have to pay $99 upgrade fee too.


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## Saintsfanfl

pchung6 said:


> I just tried to retrade my confirmed exchange before the fee, it seems I have to pay $99 upgrade fee too.



No upgrade fees on existing E-Plus but apparently there is for regular retrades.


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## dioxide45

youppi said:


> II posted this today on the II community :
> Hello Interval members,
> 
> We have heard your concerns and apologize for not providing advance notice about the new unit-size upgrade fee. We assure you that we will improve our communications in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to launching this fee, we reviewed data and conducted member research to better understand member behavior and inventory utilization. We learned that members often confirm larger units than are necessary to accommodate their travel party. This finding, along with the fact that points-based members already relinquish more points when receiving a larger unit, the trend toward shorter booking windows, and other factors, influenced the introduction of the unit-size upgrade fee. As always, if a unit-size upgrade is offered during Flexchange, there is no additional fee.
> 
> 
> 
> The unit-size upgrade fee supports Interval’s commitment to providing comparable exchanges to members around the world. Our inventory control and optimization processes are designed to create the greatest number of exchange opportunities possible for members, while maintaining fairness across the system.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information, please see “Inventory Control and Optimization – Comparable Exchange for Weeks Ownership” in the Document Library.
> View attachment 2724
> 
> 
> Thank you for your input, participation in Community, and membership in Interval International.



If you fill out the resort evaluation form after a stay, there is a place to indicate the unit type you had and if it was comfortable for the size of your party. They do have a place in the evaluation to input the size of the traveling party.


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## sail27bill

I have to agree that internal not notifying members ahead of time was not cool to say the least.

However, I am in the minority as I don't mind paying for an upgrade if I need it.  I have traded my 2 bedroom SVV unit for 2 units under the old xyz program to get a 1 bedroom and studio multiple times when there hasn't been 2 bedroom availability when I wanted to go.  These were in high demand areas for an exact week I wanted.  I was able to do this way in advance to book airfare so I saved money on tickets.  Also, as an example our Aruba trip was the best ever as we stayed at the Aruba Ocean Club during the Aruba Film festival one year (and my husband's birthday) and got to walk the red carpet with other celebrities.  To me, it was worth every penny I spent extra to get the room I wanted and time frame for those memories.

That said, I believe that Interval should compensate its members who have to trade down.  It is kind of unfair really.  I believe they should have to either:
1. Give them some credit on the exchange fee,
2. Give them an AC, or
3. Offer them a 1 bedroom for the cost of an exchange fee somewhere else. 

However, I am glad that during flexchange, the fee disappears.  I think interval is attempting to force people to deposit their full unit without locking off in an attempt to allow for larger units for exchanging purposes, and stop people from getting great upgrades.  I think people forget that Interval is a business and it will do what it feels is best to increase its bottom line.  In the past, the old xyz and 2 for 1 xyzs benefited me...and lots others I am sure.  Life is what it is.  Personally I was more upset with II's last price increase to make an exchange than I am about this. If people feel differently, vote with your wallet.  But I have to hand it to interval...I think in the long run it will work allowing for larger units in their inventory and help to quiet their clientele who have been unhappy and are not as savy as people on Tug. Just my 2 cents.

Anita


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## jhoug

*Wasn't seeing what I used to before this upgrade fee.*

Live in Salt Lake City.  I have a timeshare in PV, Mexico that is points based and floating weeks. 
And sometimes I would deposit a studio, sometimes a 1 BR and sometimes a 2 BR.  But to maximize my points or use up left over points was not always the best season or unit. 

In the last year or so,  noticed that the studio and sometimes even the 1 or 2 BR were not pulling/showing nearly the number or type of units that we had been able to see and book before.  Such as off season 2 BR Park City Marriotts.
Although we got a 2 B Park City Marriott (last minute) once during ski season the last 2 nights of the 2002 Olympics with an off season studio, I didn't always expect these kind of finds. 

Last 2 years almost have had studio deposists go unused because I couldn't find anything to exchange to because could only see studio units. 

Now this even things out again, so I don't think I really mind the fee.  Gives options of seeing what is available and picking the unit you want. 

I don't always want to give up my Worldmark points even though they have better trading power because I can use more of those locally.


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## silentg

jhoug said:


> Live in Salt Lake City.  I have a timeshare in PV, Mexico that is points based and floating weeks.
> And sometimes I would deposit a studio, sometimes a 1 BR and sometimes a 2 BR.  But to maximize my points or use up left over points was not always the best season or unit.
> 
> In the last year or so,  noticed that the studio and sometimes even the 1 or 2 BR were not pulling/showing nearly the number or type of units that we had been able to see and book before.  Such as off season 2 BR Park City Marriotts.
> Although we got a 2 B Park City Marriott (last minute) once during ski season the last 2 nights of the 2002 Olympics with an off season studio, I didn't always expect these kind of finds.
> 
> Last 2 years almost have had studio deposists go unused because I couldn't find anything to exchange to because could only see studio units.
> 
> Now this even things out again, so I don't think I really mind the fee.  Gives options of seeing what is available and picking the unit you want.
> 
> I don't always want to give up my Worldmark points even though they have better trading power because I can use more of those locally.



When II merged with VRI they took on this upgrade thing. More fees make for less exchanges for me thru II.


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## bnoble

davidvel said:


> Has it ever happened that people have less than occupancy? Of course.



We almost always are. For the four of us, we consider a 2BR to be the smallest acceptable unit---and nearly all of those sleep at least six.


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## tashamen

dioxide45 said:


> If you fill out the resort evaluation form after a stay, there is a place to indicate the unit type you had and if it was comfortable for the size of your party. They do have a place in the evaluation to input the size of the traveling party.



I thought of this too as the possible source of II's supposed data, but wonder how many people fill these out and if they do, how honest they are.  Personally I have fibbed on that form on occasion, when I've traveled on my own and don't want II to know that (not really sure why).  I once had a 4BR unit at Little Gull Cottages in FL all to myself when I attended a conference in nearby Sarasota.


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## Saintsfanfl

bnoble said:


> We almost always are. For the four of us, we consider a 2BR to be the smallest acceptable unit---and nearly all of those sleep at least six.



Exactly. Who wants to use the sofa beds if they don't have to? Private sleeping capacity I agree with but that does happen too. Who would take a 1BR if they can have a 2BR for the same price? Others may or may not join but at least there is the option.


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## IngridN

I just uptraded my studio for a 2 bedroom and paid the fee. I'm not happy about the fee but feel it is well worth it. This way I don't have the nail bitting I had in the past waiting for flex and getting up at 3am until I snagged it. As I'm curious, I will continue to see what's available during flex each morning, but will not set the alarm!

Now I'll need to decide whether it is worth paying the fee or depositing both my 2 bedroom Shadow Ridge units instead of splitting one and exchanging the other for the 75K Marriott Reward Points. I'm leaning towards depositing both 2 bedrooms in the future. I'll have to check with DH to see how the $ work under each scenario. $300 upgrade fee (for studio and 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom units) or 75K MAR points.

Ingrid


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## dukebigtom

This simply stinks.  I thought RCI was getting ridiculous with their exchange fees and loved II because it provides top notch resorts at reasonable exchange fees.  Last year I deposited 3 weeks to II, all 2 bedroom units.  Looks like I will not be depositing any this year.   Adding extra fees like this diminishes the value of my membership.   It is like the checked baggage fees and other hidden costs that the airline industry charges.  I will go out of my way to use Southwest Airlines whenever possible because when I look at the price, I don't have to do a lot of calculations and messing around to compare with others.   The price is the price.   

A sad day indeed.  

BigTom


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## tschwa2

dukebigtom said:


> This simply stinks.  I thought RCI was getting ridiculous with their exchange fees and loved II because it provides top notch resorts at reasonable exchange fees.  Last year I deposited 3 weeks to II, all 2 bedroom units.  Looks like I will not be depositing any this year.   Adding extra fees like this diminishes the value of my membership.   It is like the checked baggage fees and other hidden costs that the airline industry charges.  I will go out of my way to use Southwest Airlines whenever possible because when I look at the price, I don't have to do a lot of calculations and messing around to compare with others.   The price is the price.
> 
> A sad day indeed.
> 
> BigTom



If you deposited 3 two bedroom units and exchanged into 3 two bedroom units then this new fee would not effect you.  Were you locking off and making more than 3 exchanges or exchanging into three bedroom units?


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## gatorray

Sugarcubesea said:


> I agree, this company is already making a ton of money and it's indeed a very sad day.
> 
> I wonder if they will still charge this fee, for those resorts that only have 2 bedroom units?



 They most certainly do. Even when you submit a lock off from a platinum season in Florida in the dead of winter and seek an exchange in South Carolina in the late spring, you will pay a serious fee for the "privilege" of exchanging  The lock off for the minimum accommodation in South Carolina, namely a two bedroom villa. This new fee policy was instituted June 26, 2016 without any notification to its members and certainly without notifying us when we submitted the exchange  after paying Marriott to split the unit and then again paid Interval to get the villa in Myrtle Beach in March of this year. Unethical? Sounds like it to me. Do they care about their customers/members? Certainly not!  Renting ones lockout and purchasing a rental week from a third-party is the way to go imho. Bypass Interval. Apparently they can add fees for any reason at any time even after an exchange is submitted. I call that fraudulent. Its implied contract is, in fact,  breeched. Why do business with an unethical company?  If you have a few weeks, let me tell you what I really think!


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## skimeup

*Dropped II*

Once II started charging the fee upfront for an exchange, I stopped depositing with them.  I kept the membership and still use them now for getaways, but since those have been getting more expensive I will quit doing that and drop II altogether.  There are plenty of great rentals here on tug and exchanges as well, so I will forego all these ridiculous fees.   Yes, they are running a business - but shop around folks, and you'll see you can get great deals on 4 star hotels almost  anywhere you want to go and unless you are at your home resort, you'll pay more than you'll pay with your MFs and all those fees!

Instead, I have sold off units and dropped down only to those I want to use personally.  I love my Inn at the Opera in SF (although I always have to explain how it is used to the Shell Vacation people) and my Royal Holiday.  I know RH has a bad rep, but it has more cities than anyone but Wyndham (maybe even more than Wyndham) and costs a WHOLE lot less to buy if you pick it up resale on ebay and I think the MFs are less as well.


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## DanH

*Yeah, II is a disapointment*

Yeah, II keeps making changes that don't help its members - I'm planning not to renew my II membership next time it is up.  There are so many other exchange options.


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## Sugarcubesea

DanH said:


> Yeah, II keeps making changes that don't help its members - I'm planning not to renew my II membership next time it is up.  There are so many other exchange options.



Companies will continue to charge the fees and continue to get as much money out of the consumer as they can until the consumer votes with their wallet and moves on to other options or exchange companies.

I will going forward be using my units, renting them out, or exchanging with other exchanges.


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## vikingsholm

This change is awful for us, and we will be depositing much less often to II going forward.

The RCI system accounts for quality somewhat and especially season of units when assigning TPUs, which is a good and fair system for an exchange company that charges an annual fee. With some units we have that are accepted by RCI, that allows us to deposit studios and 1 bedrooms from high season, high quality areas and resorts, and use the fairly assigned TPUs to trade up to 2 and 3 bedrooms, in off seasons and sometimes at resorts that are not as high quality. These are often in areas that II does not have units, and those tradeoffs are worth it to us.

II used to somewhat simulate this trading power effect by enabling studios and 1 bedrooms from high quality resorts and areas in good seasons to trade for 2 and sometimes 3 bedrooms without upgrade fees, often in off seasons or at lesser resorts. Now they're taking this away, charging upgrade fees for any room size regardless of quality or season, on top of their annual fee?  We're hugely reducing our heavy II use because of this going forward. 

Unfortunately, you cannot just always vote with your feet. I'd love to have the choice to deposit Marriotts and others to RCI as an alternative to II and the DC program for many of our trades, but the exclusive agreements prevent that. We will use DC more now, but often we're looking to trade into places that do not have Marriott timeshares.

We also use smaller trading companies, but they have no required annual fee, which makes it easier to accept uptrade fees, and lesser resorts generally. If they charge too much for room size upgrades, forget it.

I would prefer that II adapt a TPU-like system, as well as show all inventory like RCI does instead of relying on blind requests that leave a lot of uncertainty when planning multiple trades. This would fairly account for trading power and remove room upgrade fees, but acknowledge those factors through TPU assignments that account for the quality of what you deposit, and what you can trade into and can receive for your deposit.

This is a really bad move by II that has soured me on them big time.


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## icydog

tschwa2 said:


> More off season large units will sit.  I wonder if this will lead to a decrease in the trading power for 3 br off season weeks.  I am sure II will have no problem selling them as getaways.



When you say sit what do you mean? On Interval? Or as resales?  I understand Interval because it will cost more $$ to trade up.  But have trouble understanding the resale part.  My thinking is a three bedroom off Season like my Surfwatch Silver can now trade for other three bedroom villas Without any additional fee.


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## BLKBRD370

mdurette said:


> Wow - I must have missed this change.  When did this start?
> 
> At first I thought not too bad, assuming this fee is for size upgrades that my original unit didn't have the power to pull.   But, I just looked at Orlando low demand periods that I could pull 3 BR options with my 1BR.    Now, looks like I need to pay for it.
> 
> Yep, sad day, especially knowing that I would probably take advantage of it!   But, what this may do is stop the purchase of buying E-Trade and obsessively looking for a larger unit daily!    That would be ok.


If you are looking for a 3BR unit which has a Lock-Off to the Studio please contact me. My home Unit is at Ocean Gate Resort, St. Augustine, FL but can be exchanged for a Resort of your choice.


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## tschwa2

icydog said:


> When you say sit what do you mean? On Interval? Or as resales?  I understand Interval because it will cost more $$ to trade up.  But have trouble understanding the resale part.  My thinking is a three bedroom off Season like my Surfwatch Silver can now trade for other three bedroom villas Without any additional fee.



I mean sit online in II inventory.   Snapping up a 2 or even 3 bedroom Marriott Hilton Head of fseason was always easy enough (and cost effective enough) using a studio but now I think members will think twice before paying $200+ on upgrades using a studio or by exchanging with a larger unit.  Same with off season Orlando, Williamsburg or similar.


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## Lydlady

tschwa2 said:


> I mean sit online in II inventory.   Snapping up a 2 or even 3 bedroom Marriott Hilton Head of fseason was always easy enough (and cost effective enough) using a studio but now I think members will think twice before paying $200+ on upgrades using a studio or by exchanging with a larger unit.  Same with off season Orlando, Williamsburg or similar.



I know what you mean. We go to Williamsburg every 2 or 3 years, specifically for an event that's off season. I know we need a 2-bedroom for our next trip, hoping to do that with an E-Plus exchange. 

I wish they would make an exception when you can't exchange like for like in these instances.


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## Ken555

After some thought on this issue, I actually think it's a reasonable change. While many of us were able to get larger units in exchange for smaller for many years, it was always perceived as a significant benefit to II membership. The new fees are not extreme, and an extra ~$9/night to upgrade to the next larger unit size doesn't seem out of line to me. If II convinced itself that it needs to make more money then this is a fair way of doing it...those who don't need larger units won't pay any extra, and only those who benefit will pay for it. I like this better than just another across the board exchange fee increase.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2

It's $14 per night if you don't have an upgraded II membership.  Personally I think it would be more reasonable to get one size upgrade with no charge and then start charging when going up two or more and there should be sales of off season inventory (which may rarely include Marriotts and VSE) at resorts and locations with a lot of excess units that allows for double upgrades without fees.  It shouldn't cost less for a getaway with exchange inventory than using even a studio plus exchange feel.  If it costs $467 plus any kind of exchange be it points or a studio and the same 3 br unit is available as a getaway for $397 or so there is something wrong.  An exchange should always get you at least $100 off the standard Getaway rental fee for exchange inventory.


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## klpca

Ken555 said:


> After some thought on this issue, I actually think it's a reasonable change. While many of us were able to get larger units in exchange for smaller for many years, it was always perceived as a significant benefit to II membership. The new fees are not extreme, and an extra ~$9/night to upgrade to the next larger unit size doesn't seem out of line to me. If II convinced itself that it needs to make more money then this is a fair way of doing it...those who don't need larger units won't pay any extra, and only those who benefit will pay for it. I like this better than just another across the board exchange fee increase.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I completely agree with you. We control our own costs with this change. Most of the time I do not anticipate paying the extra charge. If I really need it, I will pay it.

I don't understand why there isn't a credit for downsizing though.


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## MissRumphius

klpca said:


> FYI - . I have been keeping a list of nicer studios for a while since my studios have always been a difficult trade, and I will be using my one bedrooms to trade into other one bedroom units, since we are ok with those most of the time. .



I think this a great idea from kipca - I started a thread "Where are the good studios and one bedrooms" over in "EXCHANGING" that discusses studios and one bedrooms specifically.  I think that would be helpful to those of us who actually are ok with the smaller units but sometimes have difficulty knowing where to find the good ones.


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## dioxide45

In most cases a company will add new fees for some type of new benefit or value add service. II added the EPlus, which provided something that the customer could use. The problem is that the new fees didn't provide any new benefit or service. It took something that was free before to something that now has a charge. No new benefit and no value add. A rather big cut in to the cost of timeshare for those that lock off and exchange in to larger units.

That isn't to say that the benefit of doing so isn't still there. I don't see how I can do as well with DC points as I can in II, even with the new fees. We will probably just end up paying the fees. Though I do think they have an imbalance problem that will cause them to get fewer premium location deposits. Who wants to deposit their Hawaii studio or 1BR to have to pay a fee to go to a 2BR unit in Orlando in the off season?


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## youppi

dioxide45 said:


> Who wants to deposit their Hawaii studio or 1BR to have to pay a fee to go to a 2BR unit in Orlando in the off season?



This is not a good example because without the fee, it was already a bad exchange.


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## MissRumphius

What am I missing - here's what is posted on the II site

_One significant advantage of Flexchange, however, is that exchange access is enhanced, allowing members to confirm any available unit size and season. It is important to note that comparability of quality matching is still maintained for members who are relinquishing highquality resort accommodations. During this period, the unit-size upgrade fee does not apply._

But when I look at the Marriott Miami in the flexchange window (Sept 10-17) there is still an upgrade fee.  Are they saying unit-size upgrade fee does not apply except when they want it to?  This is a Marriott to Marriott exchange so comparability of quality shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Seaport104

MissRumphius said:


> What am I missing - here's what is posted on the II site
> 
> _One significant advantage of Flexchange, however, is that exchange access is enhanced, allowing members to confirm any available unit size and season. It is important to note that comparability of quality matching is still maintained for members who are relinquishing highquality resort accommodations. During this period, the unit-size upgrade fee does not apply._
> 
> But when I look at the Marriott Miami in the flexchange window (Sept 10-17) there is still an upgrade fee.  Are they saying unit-size upgrade fee does not apply except when they want it to?  This is a Marriott to Marriott exchange so comparability of quality shouldn't be an issue.



Flex change is through sept 9 today. Tomorrow sept 10 will be within flex change (59 days)


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## MissRumphius

Seaport104 said:


> Flex change is through sept 9 today. Tomorrow sept 10 will be within flex change (59 days)



Oops, so much for my arithmetic -  thanks for straightening me out!


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## krj9999

Neither the RCI TPU system or the new II pay to upgrade system are perfect.

Both have their positives and negatives.  It all comes down to how you can maximize value out of either (or both) with what you own and use.


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## dominidude

This thought just came to me:

This might be just one step in II's renewed effort to push its members to upgrade to II CIG points.

CIG points members do not have to pay extra to trade a studio for a 2bdr.

If that is the case, I actually have some renewed respect for II.

However, the problem still is those pesky II points conversion fees.

Let's see what II does next. II being what it is, they'll probably jack up the costs to convert to points, instead of lowering them.


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## tschwa2

Like RCI points conversion, I don't think II keeps the majority of the fee that is collected.  I doubt they charge more than $500 and the remaining amount is usually split between the HOA of the resort and the sales force budget that actually does the hard sell, some of it going toward commission, some going toward salary, incentive gifts, and other sales force overhead.

While a CIG member may not pay more in II fees to exchange into a studio vs a 2 br, the points requirement (and therefore cost to the member to go from a mid season studio to a mid season 2 br may be more than twice as high effectively doubling the cost to obtain the 2br vs the studio.


Developers selling points, be they Marriott or CIG will be pleased at the fees as it does help their sales efforts.  Developers selling weeks probably won't mention the extra fees or will try to way down play the fees.  They may even be more likely to throw in the year or two of platinum to help mitigate the fees at first.


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## vikingsholm

I disagree with you youppi about saying "This is not a good example because without the fee, it was already a bad exchange."

We often lock off and deposit a studio in a prime area, prime season unit and still use the full 1 bedroom size for that week. Previously, that studio would bring us decent 2 bdr trades in off seasons at other locations that could be quite nice, and where off season weather is pretty nice too, without an extra fee. Now that this fee is added, I doubt we'll do this nearly as much. Lost trading fees for II as a result.  Off season Marriott DC points look like a much better bargain now as an alternative.

The winners here seem to be those who deposit crummy studio or 1 bdr weeks but now will be able to compete for 1 and 2 bedroom units that they previously had no access to. Since these types of deposits may be less desirable, II seems to be trying to make up for the lack of people trading into those by giving them access to 1 and 2 bedrooms with extra fees.

But they'll be losing the higher quality units and seasons of studio and 1 bedroom deposits that owners like me have made in the past. Now, they'll only get off season, less desirable deposits from me, and fewer of them at that. So as a previously high volume trader, they'll lose a lot of fees that we previously provided, and higher quality unit deposits.

It just depends on how different people use the system, and until II brings back more recognition of seasonality and quality of resorts in the trading power matrix, our II usage will drop significantly.


----------



## IngridN

IngridN said:


> I just uptraded my studio for a 2 bedroom and paid the fee. I'm not happy about the fee but feel it is well worth it. This way I don't have the nail bitting I had in the past waiting for flex and getting up at 3am until I snagged it. As I'm curious, I will continue to see what's available during flex each morning, but will not set the alarm!
> 
> Now I'll need to decide whether it is worth paying the fee or depositing both my 2 bedroom Shadow Ridge units instead of splitting one and exchanging the other for the 75K Marriott Reward Points. I'm leaning towards depositing both 2 bedrooms in the future. I'll have to check with DH to see how the $ work under each scenario. $300 upgrade fee (for studio and 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom units) or 75K MAR points.
> 
> Ingrid



Another option DH and I need to consider...dump one of our traders. DH retires Friday (yeah!) and if anything, we'll be doing less timesharing for a few years as we ramp up our independent traveling to non-timeshare areas. This makes much more sense than depositing both 2 bedroom Shadow Ridge properties. Instead, dump one, saving maint fees, split and pay for the upgrades...we'll still be way ahead.

I think others will also find a way to make this change work for them based on their needs.

Ingrid


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## dominidude

tschwa2 said:


> Like RCI points conversion, I don't think II keeps the majority of the fee that is collected.  I doubt they charge more than $500 and the remaining amount is usually split between the HOA of the resort and the sales force budget that actually does the hard sell, some of it going toward commission, some going toward salary, incentive gifts, and other sales force overhead.
> 
> While a CIG member may not pay more in II fees to exchange into a studio vs a 2 br, the points requirement (and therefore cost to the member to go from a mid season studio to a mid season 2 br may be more than twice as high effectively doubling the cost to obtain the 2br vs the studio.
> 
> 
> Developers selling points, be they Marriott or CIG will be pleased at the fees as it does help their sales efforts.  Developers selling weeks probably won't mention the extra fees or will try to way down play the fees.  They may even be more likely to throw in the year or two of platinum to help mitigate the fees at first.



WOW, you're spot on! 

Didnt think about all, thanks as usual tschwa2!


----------



## youppi

vikingsholm said:


> I disagree with you youppi about saying "This is not a good example because without the fee, it was already a bad exchange."
> 
> We often lock off and deposit a studio in a prime area, prime season unit and still use the full 1 bedroom size for that week. Previously, that studio would bring us decent 2 bdr trades in off seasons at other locations that could be quite nice, and where off season weather is pretty nice too, without an extra fee. Now that this fee is added, I doubt we'll do this nearly as much. Lost trading fees for II as a result.  Off season Marriott DC points look like a much better bargain now as an alternative.
> 
> The winners here seem to be those who deposit crummy studio or 1 bdr weeks but now will be able to compete for 1 and 2 bedroom units that they previously had no access to. Since these types of deposits may be less desirable, II seems to be trying to make up for the lack of people trading into those by giving them access to 1 and 2 bedrooms with extra fees.
> 
> But they'll be losing the higher quality units and seasons of studio and 1 bedroom deposits that owners like me have made in the past. Now, they'll only get off season, less desirable deposits from me, and fewer of them at that. So as a previously high volume trader, they'll lose a lot of fees that we previously provided, and higher quality unit deposits.
> 
> It just depends on how different people use the system, and until II brings back more recognition of seasonality and quality of resorts in the trading power matrix, our II usage will drop significantly.



The example was not any prime area/prime season to any low season area. The example was exchanging a studio in Hawaii for a 2 bdrm in Orlando low season. At this moment you can get a 2 bdrm Getaways September 9 to 16 at any Marriott's in Orlando for $277 to $327 depending of your II membership. Do you thing that The MF+optionally your initial purchase spread over x years at any studio in Hawaii is lower than $277 to $327 ? The answer is no. So, this is not a good example to show that the new upgrade fee cause a problem because it was already a problem before.


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## MissRumphius

*Pending requests*

So I was planning on placing a request into a 2 bdrm only resort using my one bedroom.  I'm fine with the fee in this case.

Am I reading this right - if a 2 bdrm becomes available they call to see if you want it?   How are you supposed to sort that call out from the tsunami of worthless calls from them.  (which I typically screen).   Not to mention they never leave a message.  If you're at work or in the dentist's chair - are you out of luck?

Any suggestions - or am I missing something?


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## dioxide45

youppi said:


> The example was not any prime area/prime season to any low season area. The example was exchanging a studio in Hawaii for a 2 bdrm in Orlando low season. At this moment you can get a 2 bdrm Getaways September 9 to 16 at any Marriott's in Orlando for $277 to $327 depending of your II membership. Do you thing that The MF+optionally your initial purchase spread over x years at any studio in Hawaii is lower than $277 to $327 ? The answer is no. So, this is not a good example to show that the new upgrade fee cause a problem because it was already a problem before.



The thing is, not everyone looks at it that way. Not everyone runs the numbers and people on TUG are more astute to getting the most bang for the buck. It may have been a bad trade before, but it is even worse today. It just goes to show the imbalance in the new system.


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## vikingsholm

youppi, ok if those are the details of that particular getaway.

I have rarely found getaways that meet our needs, at those prices, and you're right, I was talking in more general terms, where I stand by my point. We don't generally travel to Orlando or the east coast.

Lockoff studios from good seasons often have brought us nice 2 bdrs at various desirable locations in off seasons, and even in good seasons, without these new extra fees, that I'd never find available as a getaway at those kind of prices.


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## Saintsfanfl

MissRumphius said:


> So I was planning on placing a request into a 2 bdrm only resort using my one bedroom.  I'm fine with the fee in this case.
> 
> Am I reading this right - if a 2 bdrm becomes available they call to see if you want it?   How are you supposed to sort that call out from the tsunami of worthless calls from them.  (which I typically screen).   Not to mention they never leave a message.  If you're at work or in the dentist's chair - are you out of luck?
> 
> Any suggestions - or am I missing something?



It depends on if the 2BR is flagged as a legitimate alternative match. It should be in this case because a direct match is impossible. These confirmation needed type matches go on hold for a period of time. Less than 24 hours. This gives you a chance to call back and confirm.


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## GetawaysRus

So I'm Johnny-come-late to this thread.  I just deposited two 2017 weeks to I.I. and started looking at possible trades.  Lo and behold, new fees.  So I signed on to TUG and found this thread.

It looks to me that I.I. is following the lead of the airlines:  increase profits by adding new and creative "fees," such as baggage handling fees, change ticket fees, etc.  After all, the customer is a piñata.  You keep hitting the piñata over and over until all the goodies have fallen out.

The weeks I just deposited were prime Sedona Summit weeks (with maximum value in Interval's Travel Demand Index).  One week was a studio and the other a 1BR Master unit.

There is a discussion upthread about the trading value of studio deposits under the new fee system.  I'll copy those posts here:

_Originally Posted by sptung   (post 37)
Does this now mean that in a search result, a studio will return larger units even when it does not have the trade power (as in the past) to trade up? Does it also mean that in OGS, we can pay extra for the option to trade to larger units?

Posted by dioxide45  (post 38)
No, the system will still only return "comparable" exchanges, if one of those "comparable" exchanges happens to be larger than the unit you deposited, you will pay the fee. You still won't be able to see anything and everything available in inventory.

sptung replies (post 43):
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ha! I just did a trade test. In the past my studio was not able to see NCV and now it returns NCV results, for a $118 exchange fee, I can have a NCV instant exchange!!! I had been able to trade in a studio to NCV through OGS in the past, just not through instant exchange. 

I think it makes a studio a little better with this new upsize fee!

Dougp26364 (post 84):
One observation on the Marriott forums, where the same topic exists, has been that studio units are seeing exchange opportunities they couldn't see before the change. If I.I. is after $$, it would make sense for studio units to see more upgrade opportunities since that would generate additional fee's. and profits. If enough owners take advantage of this new opportunity to upgrade, even for an extra fee, it could actually result if fewer large units remaining available for long. Of course, to upgrade, one has to see it online as an instant exchange unless I.I. loosens the rules for ongoing searches. 

vikingsholm (post 184):
The winners here seem to be those who deposit crummy studio or 1 bdr weeks but now will be able to compete for 1 and 2 bedroom units that they previously had no access to.
_

I have to agree with those who said that the new fee structure dramatically increases the trading power of a studio.  In the past, the Sedona Summit 1BR was always a pretty decent trader, and I could often snag a 2BR in trade (with no upgrade fee, of course).  But my Sedona Summit studio was relatively weak, and I could not see trades anywhere near as good as the 1BR.  It has always been much harder for me to get decent trading value out of a Sedona studio deposit.  (Because of my work schedule, I can't trade within the Flexchange period.)

*Now, however, my Sedona efficiency is seeing nearly everything (nearly, but not 100%) that the 1BR sees, including trades to a 2BR or 3BR.*  Of course, these potential trades with the studio will now cost me more (in upgrade fees) than if I trade with the 1BR.  But Interval stands to make more money if I trade with the efficiency, so that's why I think they are allowing me to see more potential trades when I search with the efficiency.

So overall, I think this is a very mixed bag.  It's going to be far easier for me to trade the efficiency unit (but for a fee).  But I've clearly lost some value on trading the 1BR unit, and I'll be paying fees when I do trade the 1BR to a larger unit.

I'm a "regular" I.I. member.  I have to agree with those posters who said that now I'll have to look more carefully about the value of switching to Gold or Plat Interval membership.

Here's a suggestion for Interval (and I'm now going to put my tongue in my cheek because I would be quite surprised if this happens).  For the airlines (let's say American Airlines), remember that the checked bag fee is waived if you have a co-branded credit card (such as a Citibank American Airlines credit card).  Also, you get group 1 boarding if you have the credit card.  If Interval wants to fee-us-to-death, I might just sign up for an I.I. credit card if that would help me waive these new trading fees.


----------



## lizap

Ken,  I agree.  Nobody likes paying more, myself included, but, IMO, it makes sense that if you want to upgrade to a larger unit, you should have to pay something.. The real problem here is now we're being asked to pay for something we used to get for free.  Certainly II handled this poorly by not giving advanced notice of the change.




Ken555 said:


> After some thought on this issue, I actually think it's a reasonable change. While many of us were able to get larger units in exchange for smaller for many years, it was always perceived as a significant benefit to II membership. The new fees are not extreme, and an extra ~$9/night to upgrade to the next larger unit size doesn't seem out of line to me. If II convinced itself that it needs to make more money then this is a fair way of doing it...those who don't need larger units won't pay any extra, and only those who benefit will pay for it. I like this better than just another across the board exchange fee increase.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lizap

You're assuming that Getaway rates are not going to go up.





tschwa2 said:


> It's $14 per night if you don't have an upgraded II membership.  Personally I think it would be more reasonable to get one size upgrade with no charge and then start charging when going up two or more and there should be sales of off season inventory (which may rarely include Marriotts and VSE) at resorts and locations with a lot of excess units that allows for double upgrades without fees.  It shouldn't cost less for a getaway with exchange inventory than using even a studio plus exchange feel.  If it costs $467 plus any kind of exchange be it points or a studio and the same 3 br unit is available as a getaway for $397 or so there is something wrong.  An exchange should always get you at least $100 off the standard Getaway rental fee for exchange inventory.


----------



## Panina

I own winter time southwest Florida studios.  I will have no problem paying the new fees if I get a trade in the same time period in south Florida.   

But I will now only deposit these weeks with a request first to make sure I retain my weeks value.

If I plan on trading these prime weeks for non prime weeks elsewhere, I will from now on deposit in RCI. Whereas II previously gave me the best value for these trades now Rci does.

Just recently in Rci I deposited my winter southwest Florida studio,  for the TPUs I received, I got a winter week 2 bedroom prime resort in Orlando and had 1/3 of my TPUs left over to use.  In II I would have paid a 2 bedroom upgrade fee.  

I always preferred II.    I am so disappointed in II.  They just missed it and did not consider the members who have prime time great area studios that are also desired by other members.


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## tschwa2

lizap said:


> You're assuming that Getaway rates are not going to go up.



I actually think there will be more off season larger getaways available and although the price will eventually go up if their is a glut that are not being taken as exchanges they will be priced low and maybe even offered as platinum escapes, like the glut of AI weeks offered cheaply.


----------



## Correcaminos

I have opened up a new thread to focus on the telephone call process -- Miss Rumphius, I believe you have pointed out an issue that deserves special attention.


----------



## klpca

Panina said:


> I own winter time southwest Florida studios.  I will have no problem paying the new fees if I get a trade in the same time period in south Florida.
> 
> But I will now only deposit these weeks with a request first to make sure I retain my weeks value.
> 
> If I plan on trading these prime weeks for non prime weeks elsewhere, I will from now on deposit in RCI. Whereas II previously gave me the best value for these trades now Rci does.
> 
> Just recently in Rci I deposited my winter southwest Florida studio,  for the TPUs I received, I got a winter week 2 bedroom prime resort in Orlando and had 1/3 of my TPUs left over to use.  In II I would have paid a 2 bedroom upgrade fee.
> 
> I always preferred II.    I am so disappointed in II.  They just missed it and did not consider the members who have prime time great area studios that are also desired by other members.



I hear you on using RCI with a quality studio. I can easily get 2 - 3 trades out of my Donatello unit (but at a cost of $400 - $600 in exchange fees!!), but I like the inventory in II so much better. I like your idea of doing a request first with II.


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## dioxide45

No mention of this new benefit in the latest issue of Interval World Magazine that arrived today. It must have been announced to late to make the issue...


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## tashamen

dioxide45 said:


> No mention of this new benefit in the latest issue of Interval World Magazine that arrived today. It must have been announced to late to make the issue...



Actually it is there, but not exactly featured.  On Page 13 there's a short item called A Step (or Two) Up:  "From time to time, you may be able to upgrade to a larger unit when you exchange your week on Intervalworld.com (*a fee applies*).  If the opportunity exists, you could have the choice of stepping up to a one-, two-, three-, or four-bedroom unit...")

I added the bolding.


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## alexadeparis

tashamen said:


> Actually it is there, but not exactly featured.  On Page 13 there's a short item called A Step (or Two) Up:  "From time to time, you may be able to upgrade to a larger unit when you exchange your week on Intervalworld.com (*a fee applies*).  If the opportunity exists, you could have the choice of stepping up to a one-, two-, three-, or four-bedroom unit...")
> 
> I added the bolding.



Wow, gotta love marketing people! :rofl: What a way to bury the lede.


----------



## dioxide45

tashamen said:


> Actually it is there, but not exactly featured.  On Page 13 there's a short item called A Step (or Two) Up:  "From time to time, you may be able to upgrade to a larger unit when you exchange your week on Intervalworld.com (*a fee applies*).  If the opportunity exists, you could have the choice of stepping up to a one-, two-, three-, or four-bedroom unit...")
> 
> I added the bolding.



Interesting. What version of the magazine do you have? We received the Marriott Vacation Club version and there is no mention of a Step (or Two) Up in ours. Page 13 is a push for Gold and Platinum membership. No mention about the upgrade fee discount though. Page 12 talks about 'BENEFITS ETC." but only refers to travel insurance, the credit card and Choose 2.


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## presley

dioxide45 said:


> Interesting. What version of the magazine do you have? We received the Marriott Vacation Club version and there is no mention of a Step (or Two) Up in ours. Page 13 is a push for Gold and Platinum membership. No mention about the upgrade fee discount though. Page 12 talks about 'BENEFITS ETC." but only refers to travel insurance, the credit card and Choose 2.



My Shell version is the same as yours.


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## dioxide45

The link below is to the digital version of the magazine on IIs website. It is very different from our version.

http://www.intervalworld.com/iimedia/magazine/ii/iwna2016summer-online2/index.html#12


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## tashamen

dioxide45 said:


> Interesting. What version of the magazine do you have? We received the Marriott Vacation Club version and there is no mention of a Step (or Two) Up in ours. Page 13 is a push for Gold and Platinum membership. No mention about the upgrade fee discount though. Page 12 talks about 'BENEFITS ETC." but only refers to travel insurance, the credit card and Choose 2.



Sorry, I should have been more specific.  In my printed copy of the magazine, this was on page 11.  But in the digital version, it's on page 13 (because the cover and inside cover are pages 1 and 2).


----------



## MsCoach

Weimaraner said:


> That's exactly how I feel. I own prime season winter months in Aruba and summer at Atlantis. I did test searches with the new II and they want me to believe it's fair to give up my summer Harborside 1 bed for an off-season January Orlando 2 bedroom AND pay extra. I don't think so.



I agree!
We have a 1 bed Premium Harborside Summer week and we will no longer deposit with II due to these fees.
This is ridiculous!  That's a 2K week in maintenance fees alone!! Now they want the 2K week, the exchange fee, the Premium membership fee, and an upgrade fee?
I can book a Marriott timeshare for cash on Marriott.com for less than $2600 per week.  I will rent my Atlantis week and pay cash from now on.


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## tschwa2

Wow, were you depositing a summer harborside before?  In a way interval isn't going to care because they never received a harborside summer deposit.  The probably got an off season 2 br myrtle beach week because SVN (now VSE) controls all VSE deposits.  As said before even before the upgrade fee exchanging into a 2 br off season Orlando week would have been a terrible use of your week.  II also knows that even if you never deposit again you are still on the hook for whatever portion your annual fee goes toward your mandatory II membership.

SFX and most of the other independent exchange companies would also charge you an upgrade charge to get that off season Orlando week unless you upgraded to a higher membership level that included free upgrades.


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## dominidude

*Is Interval exiting the traditional timeshare exchange business?*

It seems to me II is signaling they are not that interested in the traditional exchange business anymore. For example, II seems to be trying to rely for more of their income time from timeshare rentals. 

I'm basing this on 
1) their lack of inventory to exchange (per my experience) 
2) II's lack of efforts and/or unsuccessful effort to get more inventory (for at least 1 year) 
3) their steep fee increases, and 
4) latest rules changes (tightening up rules for short stays, what ACs can see, replacing XYZ with Choose2).
5) the addition of a bunch of resorts in the DC metro area which are strictly for rental purposes (at 2k+ per week for up to 4 people)
6) their latest magazine touting how you can rent a studio in Paris or London for 2ppl for 650+ (used to be 399+)

Can anyone confirm?


----------



## vacatiionking

*II Upgrade Fee Changes Have Reduced Eligible Trades*

I believe Interval is limiting inventory for certain studio exchanges. Since they began charging for upgrades, I noticed that searches with my Marriott Timberlodge (MTL) summer studio is bringing fewer 1 or 2 bedroom summer 2017 trades than it used to.

For example, prior to the charges, I could often find summer Grand Luxxe (GL) and Royal Haciendas (RH) in the Mexican Riviera Maya in 1 or 2 bedroom units.  Although I see some 1 bedroom Marriotts, I don't see near what I used to.  Just to test, I used a 1 bedroom Sheraton Desert Oasis (SDO) to search next summer and found 1 bedrooms at each of the resorts above.

Why won't II offer the upgrade for a fee?  Especially with the overbuilt Mexican timeshares which can stay in inventory for months.


----------



## klpca

vacatiionking said:


> I believe Interval is limiting inventory for certain studio exchanges. Since they began charging for upgrades, I noticed that searches with my Marriott Timberlodge (MTL) summer studio is bringing fewer 1 or 2 bedroom summer 2017 trades than it used to.
> 
> For example, prior to the charges, I could often find summer Grand Luxxe (GL) and Royal Haciendas (RH) in the Mexican Riviera Maya in 1 or 2 bedroom units.  Although I see some 1 bedroom Marriotts, I don't see near what I used to.  Just to test, I used a 1 bedroom Sheraton Desert Oasis (SDO) to search next summer and found 1 bedrooms at each of the resorts above.
> 
> Why won't II offer the upgrade for a fee?  Especially with the overbuilt Mexican timeshares which can stay in inventory for months.



I agree that studio trades (always a crapshoot with II) are worse than ever. There are Custom House weeks that my SDO sees that my Marriott studio can't. That said, with enough effort, I usually find something useful. It just seems harder than it should be. You think that they would be happy to take out $$


----------



## vacatiionking

klpca said:


> I agree that studio trades (always a crapshoot with II) are worse than ever. There are Custom House weeks that my SDO sees that my Marriott studio can't. That said, with enough effort, I usually find something useful. It just seems harder than it should be. You think that they would be happy to take out $$


Exactly!  If you are going to charge for the upgrade, then show me what's available.  Don't limit my exchange options, which is what is happening.

Also, I just tried to do a deposit first search using the MTL studio.  Since they now charge for upgrades, I asked for a 1 bedroom Marriott Aruba.  I was told, the only way that could happen is if there is first a studio to exchange into, then there must be a 1 bedroom available (not sure if the dates have to match exactly) to upgrade to.  

I don't want to book a studio, but since I can already see one is available, that is exactly what I will get.  Since there are no 1 bedrooms available, I can't see how I can ever upgrade to it.

Does anyone have experience with this?  I won't do the search unless there is a reasonable way to book a 1 bedroom.


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## Serina

*Confused...*

I've been reading through this thread but I'm still confused - hoping for some clarification...

If I deposit my One Bedroom Marriott Canyon Villas (March week/platinum) and place an OGS for a September week at Marriott Newport Coast Villas (they only have 2 bedroom units), will I still be charged an upgrade fee?


----------



## tschwa2

Yes it will require a fee and you will not automatically confirm even if you are the only request.  If you match it will be put on a hold and II will try to contact you by phone (one call) to let you know so you can pay the upgrade fee.  If you do not get the message and/or call back during business hours within the time limit the unit will be released from the hold.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

vacatiionking said:


> Also, I just tried to do a deposit first search using the MTL studio.  Since they now charge for upgrades, I asked for a 1 bedroom Marriott Aruba.  I was told, the only way that could happen is if there is first a studio to exchange into, then there must be a 1 bedroom available (not sure if the dates have to match exactly) to upgrade to.
> 
> I don't want to book a studio, but since I can already see one is available, that is exactly what I will get.  *Since there are no 1 bedrooms available, I can't see how I can ever upgrade to it.*
> 
> Does anyone have experience with this?  I won't do the search unless there is a reasonable way to book a 1 bedroom.



This issue already existed and doesn't really have anything to do with the upgrade fees. You could and can still only place a request for the same size and since the desired resort has studios that is what you are going to get. The only exception on the info you received is that I think it is possible to get a match to the 1BR if that is the only thing available. Your only realistic option is to take the studio and use e-plus and keep searching.


----------



## Serina

tschwa2 said:


> Yes it will require a fee and you will not automatically confirm even if you are the only request.  If you match it will be put on a hold and II will try to contact you by phone (one call) to let you know so you can pay the upgrade fee.  If you do not get the message and/or call back during business hours within the time limit the unit will be released from the hold.



By any chance, does anyone know what name or number might show up on ones caller ID if II is trying to get in touch with you to confirm a hold? (hoping it's not one of the many 'toll free' numbers we always seem to get):annoyed:


----------



## kds4

Serina said:


> By any chance, does anyone know what name or number might show up on ones caller ID if II is trying to get in touch with you to confirm a hold? (hoping it's not one of the many 'toll free' numbers we always seem to get):annoyed:



Whenever they call me it is from a toll-free number.


----------



## presley

Serina said:


> By any chance, does anyone know what name or number might show up on ones caller ID if II is trying to get in touch with you to confirm a hold? (hoping it's not one of the many 'toll free' numbers we always seem to get):annoyed:


They leave detailed messages. I never answer 800 calls and when I get a detailed message about an exchange from them, I just call them back. I think they give you 24 hours to return the call to accept the exchange. Since they only call if it is a similar exchange to what I want and not an exact exchange, I usually don't want what they are offering anyway.


----------



## taterhed

My calls from II routinely show up as an Orlando number: [FONT=&quot](407) 903-6100   although I have gotten 800 numbers as well.[/FONT]


----------



## vacatiionking

Serina said:


> If I deposit my One Bedroom Marriott Canyon Villas (March week/platinum) and place an OGS for a September week at Marriott Newport Coast Villas (they only have 2 bedroom units), will I still be charged an upgrade fee?


You definitely will be charged for an upgrade, but what is concerning to me is you may not be able to be matched in the first place because of an "unlike exchange" (a studio for a 1 bedroom).  My premium week studio is not drawing 1 bedroom exchanges in a lower season in resorts where it used to.  I suggest a test search online first using your studio.  It can be done even if not deposited.


----------



## Serina

vacatiionking said:


> You definitely will be charged for an upgrade, but what is concerning to me is you may not be able to be matched in the first place because of an "unlike exchange" (a studio for a 1 bedroom).  My premium week studio is not drawing 1 bedroom exchanges in a lower season in resorts where it used to.  I suggest a test search online first using your studio.  It can be done even if not deposited.



That's what I'm concerned about too. I'm trying to exchange my 1 bedroom platinum MCV for September NCV in 2017 (2 bedrooms only) and the system allowed the OGS. Now, I'm wondering if it stands a chance to match. I'll try the test search as you suggested. I don't recall seeing Marriott NCV during searches. I've only exchanged using an OGS. Sigh...

The way II handled this change is very frustrating and confusing.  
Thank goodness for Tuggers!


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## PassionForTravel

One bedrooms are much stronger in II than studio's are, that change was documented here about 1-2 years ago. You will rarely see NCV sitting in inventory in II (except sometimes for dead of winter weeks or very last minute). You aren't trying for a summer week which is very good, however Sept is still Platinum at NCV, but the Platinum season there is really to long. So an owner who couldn't get peak summer might put it in II. If it's going to hit, the strongest chance is within the next month. I'd say you have a reasonable chance.

Ian


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## Serina

PassionForTravel said:


> One bedrooms are much stronger in II than studio's are, that change was documented here about 1-2 years ago. You will rarely see NCV sitting in inventory in II (except sometimes for dead of winter weeks or very last minute). You aren't trying for a summer week which is very good, however Sept is still Platinum at NCV, but the Platinum season there is really to long. So an owner who couldn't get peak summer might put it in II. If it's going to hit, the strongest chance is within the next month. I'd say you have a reasonable chance.
> 
> Ian



Thanks! Good to know. I have no true reference for what will match and what won't - especially with the changes. Appreciate the insight and feedback.


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## lindner

*some will benefit*

Not trying to start a flame war as I have also taken advantage of the no fee upgrades, but this thread could benefit by considering all sides of this issue.  Many II traders should stand to benefit from this change and will view it as a good thing.  There have been many negative complaints in this thread but almost universally those have been from owners of studios and one bedroom units.  Many II traders deposit two bedroom units.  Not only will they not pay any upgrade fees for another two bed, but they may now get more inventory to pick through.  All the studio and one bedroom owners who say they will no longer deposit in II because of this rule change will no longer be fighting the two bed owners for two bed inventory.  This could result in a decrease in studio and one bed inventory but could also result in an increase in two bed inventory as more two bed owners will deposit if there is more inventory for them to choose from.  

RCI already indirectly charges a unit upgrade fee.  Anyone who deposits a studio or one bedroom will get a lower TPU than someone who deposits a two bedroom unit.  Thus, you need to deposit more weeks to reach the same level (I'd guess something like 4 or 5 weeks in a studio gives about the same TPU as 3 weeks in a two bedroom).  That means you are paying more in annual dues to get the same TPU, which is the same as an upgrade fee.  It's just more subtle.


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## Panina

lindner said:


> Not trying to start a flame war as I have also taken advantage of the no fee upgrades, but this thread could benefit by considering all sides of this issue.  Many II traders should stand to benefit from this change and will view it as a good thing.  There have been many negative complaints in this thread but almost universally those have been from owners of studios and one bedroom units.  Many II traders deposit two bedroom units.  Not only will they not pay any upgrade fees for another two bed, but they may now get more inventory to pick through.  All the studio and one bedroom owners who say they will no longer deposit in II because of this rule change will no longer be fighting the two bed owners for two bed inventory.  This could result in a decrease in studio and one bed inventory but could also result in an increase in two bed inventory as more two bed owners will deposit if there is more inventory for them to choose from.
> 
> RCI already indirectly charges a unit upgrade fee.  Anyone who deposits a studio or one bedroom will get a lower TPU than someone who deposits a two bedroom unit.  Thus, you need to deposit more weeks to reach the same level (I'd guess something like 4 or 5 weeks in a studio gives about the same TPU as 3 weeks in a two bedroom).  That means you are paying more in annual dues to get the same TPU, which is the same as an upgrade fee.  It's just more subtle.



I agree with you that more two bedrooms will be available as traders will think do I really need the larger unit. 

Just this week there were high demand winter 2 br key west weeks sitting in inventory which surprised me.  This can be a result of the new policy.   

I did trade my 1 bedroom Christmas week Marco island and paid the upgrade fee.  In this instance I felt it was very fair, both prime weeks, in prime locations but going to a larger unit.  

None of my winter week southwest Florida high demand studios could see the 2 bedroom key west weeks, which also surprised me.  

I disagree that Rci is just more subtle, in this instance.   Rci gives me high TPUs for my southwest Florida winter studios.   They do not diminish their value. With the TPUs Rci gives me I get a two bedroom Orlando high end resort during a winter week and have leftover TPUs to use.  II would charge me a double upgrade fee. 

 Rci is more transparent and fair today.  With their new combining Tpu policy of 12 months coming, I'll have to evaluate.  Rci  new combining Tpu policy is much more subtle and I believe won't cause as much as uproar but still has a Hugh negative impact on customer.


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## klpca

Panina said:


> I agree with you that more two bedrooms will be available as traders will think do I really need the larger unit.
> 
> Just this week there were high demand winter 2 br key west weeks sitting in inventory which surprised me.  This can be a result of the new policy.
> 
> I did trade my 1 bedroom Christmas week Marco island and paid the upgrade fee.  In this instance I felt it was very fair, both prime weeks, in prime locations but going to a larger unit.
> 
> None of my winter week southwest Florida high demand studios could see the 2 bedroom key west weeks, which also surprised me.
> 
> I disagree that Rci is just more subtle, in this instance.   Rci gives me high TPUs for my southwest Florida winter studios.   They do not diminish their value. With the TPUs Rci gives me I get a two bedroom Orlando high end resort during a winter week and have leftover TPUs to use.  II would charge me a double upgrade fee.
> 
> Rci is more transparent and fair today.  With their new combining Tpu policy of 12 months coming, I'll have to evaluate.  Rci  new combining Tpu policy is much more subtle and I believe won't cause as much as uproar but still has a Hugh negative impact on customer.



I agree with this post.

I am also seeing some high value two bedroom weeks popping up - Hyatt High Sierra in February anyone? But my Interval studios really aren't seeing more inventory - even one bedrooms during high season. As usual, Interval treats them poorly relative to the one bedroom units. I understand why they do this with my Marriott studios, but not my Donatello unit. Even SFX treats that as a one bedroom for trading purposes.

And RCI gives my units a lot of TPU's for locking off and depositing two separate units so you have the opportunity to make multiple trades. But with the new restriction on combining, I am not going to use them any more. They are just too expensive between the annual fee - $80 (if you pay upfront for 5 years), the exchange fee - $219, and the fee to combine - $119. The RCI fees make Interval look like a relative bargain.


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## vikingsholm

lindner, while it's true that RCI gives fewer TPU for smaller units and charges more to trade into larger ones, I think their setup allows you to maximize your value better than II.  With our RCI units being all year reservations, we can reserve high season 1 bdr weeks for deposit and get more TPUs. Then, I've noticed that in many off season weeks that we trade into (but still during good weather for traveling), the TPU difference between trading into 1 and 2 bedroom units is often only 1-2 TPUs. So this is a reasonable way to trade up in bedrooms without a stiff cost like II's new upgrade fee.  

We try to limit our RCI tpu combining to once a year at most, or as needed if less than that.  While it would be nice not to have that fee, it happens less often than an upgrade fee would for us in II.  I think II instituted their fee to try to limit studio deposits, which I'm guessing they weren't getting as many trades into as they wanted.  We also see less available for trading into with our studio deposits now than we used to in instant online exchange. 

So, too bad II, you will lose most of our future fees that would have come from studio deposits, and even some 1 bedroom units. Those will go into Platinum, Trading Places, and DAE now (because those units of ours are not affiliated with RCI). Even though those other trading exchange systems have upgrade fees too, because they have no annual fee or quality filters, they are a better deal IMO, providing you can find desirable units to trade into.

I like RCI's system better than II's, especially being able to see all deposits available to trade, and not having to request them, plus the TPU system. Just wish they had more of the quality units like II, or especially that we could deposit any of our units into any trading system of our choice. We'll have to continue to use II, RCI, and other exchange systems strategically to make the trades work best for us. However, II will definitely get fewer deposits and trades from us now due to their upgrade fees, and our Marriott internal trades and DC points use will increase.


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## thickey

*What if a larger unit exchanges to a smaller unit?  Refund?*

If I.I. charges an "upgrade" fee, then to be fair, they should offer a refund of part of the exchange fee, or charge a smaller exchange fee, when people "downgrade" to a smaller unit.


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## mav

WOW! I just saw this! Not happy. .  I have all 2 bedroom units, but many times got 3 and  4 bedroom units in Williamsburg. Vacationing with family is often better in large units


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## Pmuppet

dougp26364 said:


> Let's get one thing straight, the inventory might not be costing them anything but, providing the service is NOT free. There's website development, employee's to man the phone's, office expenses, benefits to be paid et......Anytime that website isn't working exactly right someone will post on here about how the exchange company can't get their act together. Just keeping their website running without to many glitches takes more effort than most of us will ever know.....and it's not FREE. Sometime I think we take other efforts for granted.



Okay Interval employee 

An easy fix for Interval to do to reduce call center volume is to allow folks to cancel OGS matches online (like RCI does) WITHOUT calling into the call center and holding for 20 minutes to talk to their "highly compensated" employees.


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## dioxide45

I saw something interesting. It looks like the discounted upgrade fees are based on if you are gold or platinum at the time you make the exchange. This is unlike guest certificate fees where you have to be gold or platinum through the date of your confirmed week to get the free guest certificate.


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## Saintsfanfl

dioxide45 said:


> I saw something interesting. It looks like the discounted upgrade fees are based on if you are gold or platinum at the time you make the exchange. This is unlike guest certificate fees where you have to be gold or platinum through the date of your confirmed week to get the free guest certificate.



I noticed that yesterday but it looks like they intended to force a renewal. It took me to the screen with a message that I would have to upgrade for the discounted fee but declining it still kept the discount. It's likely a programming error.


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## dioxide45

Saintsfanfl said:


> I noticed that yesterday but it looks like they intended to force a renewal. It took me to the screen with a message that I would have to upgrade for the discounted fee but declining it still kept the discount. It's likely a programming error.


I noticed this the other day too. Best to take advantage of it before they plug the hole.


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