# Opinion wanted from Starwood Owners who also own Marriott or Hyatt



## marmite (Jan 3, 2013)

Last year I bought a 2bd SDO Gold Plus unit, and have already had 4 fantastic trades thanks to the great advice received here by you all!  Thanks again.

I need/want more timeshare weeks and have a few goals:

- access to more destinations within a timeshare trading system (not only II) or ability to convert timeshare weeks to hotel stays 

- want to trade into (or own in places) that are excellent quality and attractive (Hyatt, Four Seasons and some Marriotts and Westin's come to mind).  

-  More stays in units that are new and as beautiful as possible (details matter to me -- ie. the quality of the sheets).

- Own a unit in the "West" (likely California Coast or Palm Desert), so we could quickly fly there if we wanted to stay in our home resort

- An exit plan (such as making sure I buy a Platinum so someone would want to buy it at some point).

Some options I considered but do not think will work for me:

- Try to get to 5* elite in Starwood
- Buy into Four Seasons Aviara

Some options I am considering and want your thoughts on:

- Buying a cheap Platinum resale unit and then requalify it with a developer purchase from Starwood.  This scenario would be the cost of the resale unit, plus about $21K to buy a unit from Starwood.  However, I could use my points to trade directly within the Starwood system and have the option to convert to Starpoints.  Given that I would not be trying to get to 5* elite, do the benefits balance the cost of a developer purchase?  I like the idea of WDW as the resale unit, to keep the taxes low.  I don't know that Starwood is actively selling any other properties I would be interested in.

- Buying a Hyatt unit resale. Carmel is the closest location to us. This would not be to trade in II, I would be hoping to use Hyatt internal system.

- Buying a Marriott unit resale and trading through II with the Marriott priority. I would likely want an annual 2bdr lock-off in Palm Desert.  I was intrigued by some discussions on Shadow Ridge Enclaves having some 'Deluxe' units (which lock off in to two 1 bedroom units), but can't seem to find them.  I looked at Willow Ridge as well, purely for trading -- but I'm not sure it meets my needs for an exit strategy.

So -- Would you recommend to diversify into a Marriott or Hyatt -- or does Starwood give you plenty of reasons to want another?  Would you stay away from Marriott or Hyatt, and if so why?  If you bought Starwood would you only do a resale, or look at retro-ing a unit with a developer purchase?

Thank you all!


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## VacationForever (Jan 3, 2013)

marmite said:


> Last year I bought a 2bd SDO Gold Plus unit, and have already had 4 fantastic trades thanks to the great advice received here by you all!  Thanks again.
> 
> I need/want more timeshare weeks and have a few goals:
> 
> ...



Having owned Starwood, my next purchase will be a Marriott resale.  I have seriously looked at Hyatt and Marriott and Marriott is slightly more attractive because of the number of locations.  I have identified a couple of Marriott resorts that I could own as a home resort and go back to frequently.  Marriott to Marriott priority in II makes me envious of Marriott owners.   I wrote off Hyatt after one stay at Carmel as I was planning to buy a week from the developer before I got there, with the plan of staying there every other year and trading the other year.  After I got there I decided the location was too cold and dreary.  Four Seasons only has the resorts in Carlsbad and Scottsdale that I am aware of.  The rest of the Four Seasons are residence/fractional ownership that Four Seasons timeshare owners really have no or limited access to.

Starwood has far fewer locations and since you already own SDO you will continue to get Starwood to Starwood priority in II.  Unless you have clear plans on what you will do if and when you get to an Elite level and got the ROI figured out that says it makes sense to do so, do not buy spend the money on a new developer purchase.


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## PamMo (Jan 3, 2013)

We own several timeshares in different systems (Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, and others) but our home resorts are places where we want to vacation. It sounds like you've had excellent trades with your SDO timeshare, which is great, but counting on trading inexpensive weeks for prime units/weeks is something I'm not willing to bet on. 

If you like Four Seasons, you can pick up a week fairly inexpensively on eBay or RedWeek, because MF's are high (although not as high as Starwood's Hawaiian or Caribbean properties), and it has good trading power in II. Of course, almost all trades would be downgrades. Hyatt has some beautiful properties, and with the addition of their new timeshare in Maui, it sounds like it might work for you - but I wouldn't buy anything less than 2,000 points (preferably 2,200). If you like perfection, Carmel may be somewhat disappointing to you. The Marriott preference still works well in II, but the spinoff DC points program may limit availability of Interval trading in the future - the verdict is still out. Hilton is probably the most flexible for resale owners. Resale owners can convert their points to use in Hilton branded properties worldwide.

We are fortunate to be able to do a lot of traveling with our family. Owning in the different systems gives us great flexibility.


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## PatDexter (Jan 3, 2013)

Try Carmel in Sept/October if you haven't already. My opinion, best time of year to visit. Same with San Francisco. It's generally warm and sunny.

Curious about the Marriott resorts you're considering. Where are Marriotts better Starwood, where they both have locations? The only I can compare from experience are the Maui properties. I prefer Westin.


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## marmite (Jan 3, 2013)

sptung said:


> I wrote off Hyatt after one stay at Carmel as I was planning to buy a week from the developer before I got there, with the plan of staying there every other year and trading the other year.  After I got there I decided the location was too cold and dreary.  Four Seasons only has the resorts in Carlsbad and Scottsdale that I am aware of.  The rest of the Four Seasons are residence/fractional ownership that Four Seasons timeshare owners really have no or limited access to.



That's good feedback on Carmel, that is the most convenient location for me (despite my living in Canada), but I've only been there in the Summer -- when it wasn't so dreary.   It was the Four Seasons in Carlsbad I was looking at, but that would be for stays only in that location. And since the only time I would want to stay is the prime Summer months I seem to recall that I would have to buy Platinum to get that stay as it is very popular with the LA crowd.  Not much flexibility, so it would probably be better for me to rent there when I get the urge, or take an II trade for the off-season when they appear.

Would you share with me what Marriott's you were interested in, or found appealing?  I am trying to weigh the buy-where-you-want-to-stay strategy, vs. just buying a good trader (like I did with SDO). 

Many thanks for your comments, I always enjoy reading your posts.

Cheers.


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## marmite (Jan 3, 2013)

PamMo said:


> We own several timeshares in different systems (Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, and others) but our home resorts are places where we want to vacation. It sounds like you've had excellent trades with your SDO timeshare, which is great, but counting on trading inexpensive weeks for prime units/weeks is something I'm not willing to bet on.
> 
> If you like Four Seasons, you can pick up a week fairly inexpensively on eBay or RedWeek, because MF's are high (although not as high as Starwood's Hawaiian or Caribbean properties), and it has good trading power in II. Of course, almost all trades would be downgrades. Hyatt has some beautiful properties, and with the addition of their new timeshare in Maui, it sounds like it might work for you - but I wouldn't buy anything less than 2,000 points (preferably 2,200). If you like perfection, Carmel may be somewhat disappointing to you. The Marriott preference still works well in II, but the spinoff DC points program may limit availability of Interval trading in the future - the verdict is still out. Hilton is probably the most flexible for resale owners. Resale owners can convert their points to use in Hilton branded properties worldwide.
> 
> We are fortunate to be able to do a lot of traveling with our family. Owning in the different systems gives us great flexibility.



I can see how owning in the different systems gives a lot of flexibility and choices, which is why I am looking at Hyatt and Marriott, despite being very happy with my various trades through Starwood.  The Westins I stayed in were great, but the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve in Orlando was excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to go back there.

It did seem like 2200 points gave the most flexibility in Hyatt, but it does seem to me that other than Carmel and Sedona, the other properties closer to me were ski destinations (which if I want to ski, I can get to the mountain in 30 minutes... so I don't really need a vacation to go do that). Were there any Hyatt's that you would want to go to year after year?  I think I will need to read more reviews to get a feel for the locations.

Thanks for your post.


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## marmite (Jan 4, 2013)

PatDexter said:


> Try Carmel in Sept/October if you haven't already. My opinion, best time of year to visit. Same with San Francisco. It's generally warm and sunny.
> 
> Curious about the Marriott resorts you're considering. Where are Marriotts better Starwood, where they both have locations? The only I can compare from experience are the Maui properties. I prefer Westin.



At this point in my life, we don't vacation in the Fall very often (sticking to the kids school schedules mostly).  But I do agree Northern California is very nice then, and I would gladly go to San Fran anytime of the year!

I'm not sure where the Marriotts are better than Starwood, but I can only say that the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve in Orlando had fantastic units, a really nice pool and access to the hotel Pool and facilities next door as well.  Usually when we're in Orlando we only stay at Disney properties, and the Marriott was of superior quality in every way (sorry DVC lovers, but it is true!).   The Marriott unit also had a really good layout with a well designed kitchen (better than the WKV or WPV), that I would really enjoy being in for a long stay.  Except it was in Orlando... so if I could find that quality somewhere else, I would be quite happy.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 4, 2013)

marmite said:


> And since the only time I would want to stay is the prime Summer months I seem to recall that I would have to buy Platinum to get that stay as it is very popular with the LA crowd.



Remember that in coastal California (i.e. Carlsbad, Carmel, and San Francisco), the "prime summer months" are either May or August through mid-October.  We have seasonal fog that makes vacationing at any of these places predictably unpredictable in June and early July.

That makes the "lesser" gold season very useful at places like FSA and NCV if you are well organized and reserve May weeks.


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## marmite (Jan 4, 2013)

vacationtime1 said:


> Remember that in coastal California (i.e. Carlsbad, Carmel, and San Francisco), the "prime summer months" are either May or August through mid-October.  We have seasonal fog that makes vacationing at any of these places predictably unpredictable in June and early July.
> 
> That makes the "lesser" gold season very useful at places like FSA and NCV if you are well organized and reserve May weeks.



Sorry, my 'prime' was referring to all of July & August when the kids are out of school.  I assumed that those months would be high occupancy and fall in the Platinum range (I didn't check the charts). Is July in gold season or plat?


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 4, 2013)

marmite said:


> Sorry, my 'prime' was referring to all of July & August when the kids are out of school.  I assumed that those months would be high occupancy and fall in the Platinum range (I didn't check the charts). Is July in gold season or plat?



July is platinum at FSA and NCV; I don't know about the others.  It is prime tourist season in California, even if it is not the best time to visit IMO.  August is also platinum, and preferable for visiting.


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## jarta (Jan 4, 2013)

marmite,   ...   I own a 1-br and a 2-br at FSA, both in Gold season.  FSA's prime Platinum season runs from about June 15-October 15.  The rest of the year is Gold season.  Platinum and Gold have the same MFs.  1-br (2 ba., 2 balconies, 1,330 sq. ft.) is slightly less than $2,000. 2-br lockoff (3 ba., 3 balconies, 1,670 sq. ft.) is around $2,200.  I have never heard of a fixed week at FSA.  I believe all weeks are float weeks.  

Reservations are possible at 12 months from arrival.  If you own more than 1 week (most Platinum season owners own 2 or more weeks), you may reserve at 13 months from arrival.

http://residences.fourseasons.com/residence_clubs/aviara/your_new_home/

FSA is not on the ocean and is not really a beach resort.  FSA is a 5 minute drive from the ocean.  There are 2 sections at FSA.  One on the Aviara golf course; the other at the top of a hill and overlooking Batiquitos Lagoon.  

Aviara is an affluent, planned community about 30 miles north of San Diego.  Winter finds snowbirds at FSA.  In Platinum season, many people from Palm Springs. LA and Phoenix arrive for the temperate South Coast climate.

Subject to availability, a Gold week owner can reserve a Platinum week at 6 months from arrival for $150.  If there is no availability, FSA runs a wait list which does not require giving up the Gold season reservation.

Last June, I was on the wait list at 3 months prior to arrival for less than a week before having my request filled for something in September (after Labor Day).  It was my first experience being on the wait list.  I have been told by other Aviara owners that I was lucky.  (Platinum season at Aviara is like WSJ or HRA.)  But it worked for me.

Be careful.  Don't overbuy timeshares.     Salty


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## marmite (Jan 4, 2013)

jarta said:


> marmite,   ...   I own a 1-br and a 2-br at FSA, both in Gold season.  FSA's prime Platinum season runs from about June 15-October 15.  The rest of the year is Gold season.  Platinum and Gold have the same MFs.  1-br (2 ba., 2 balconies, 1,330 sq. ft.) is slightly less than $2,000. 2-br lockoff (3 ba., 3 balconies, 1,670 sq. ft.) is around $2,200.  I have never heard of a fixed week at FSA.  I believe all weeks are float weeks.
> 
> Reservations are possible at 12 months from arrival.  If you own more than 1 week (most Platinum season owners own 2 or more weeks), you may reserve at 13 months from arrival.
> 
> ...



I had not read about Gold week owners being able to book Platinum weeks, however there has been a lot of discussion on the difficulty of booking Summer weeks unless you own two units.  I got the impression, that if I wanted to consistently get Summer weeks (for my family that is July/Aug) in Aviara, I would have to buy two units to get that priority of the 13 month booking.  I really don't want to do that to get to Aviara (I'd rather rent when the mood hits).  I also don't want to really need to be lucky to get into my own resort and seson. 

You always have great advice. Thanks for your post.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 4, 2013)

Personally I would say buy Willow Ridge for a few reasons :

1. Has the lowest MF in the Marriott system
2. Trades really well, better than Shadow Ridge
3. Getting into Palm Springs, Carlsbad, Palm Desert is not that difficult of a trade
4. Cheaper to buy than SR, DS I/II (4500-6000) vs <500-1000 WR

At the current time, exiting WR is not that difficult, but even if I had to pay 1 yr MF to give it away, I think I've gotten my value out of it after only having it for 3 months! Some amazing trades of it and I lucked into a steal of a deal at $80 net on eBay.

I quite frequently see FSA available and would not consider buying it with MF in the $2K+ range. It is a GORGEOUS resort and I loved it there as well but not enough to pay that type of MF.

You live fairly close. I am in Calgary and probably have the same type of flight choices.


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## marmite (Jan 4, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Personally I would say buy Willow Ridge for a few reasons :
> 
> 1. Has the lowest MF in the Marriott system
> 2. Trades really well, better than Shadow Ridge
> ...



I had a question about your point '2.' -- Why would this trade better than Shadow Ridge?  Especially if I were able to find a deluxe Shadow Ridge that locks off into two one bedroom units (if that is possible to find resale).  If the Season I buy is equal in both properties, do they seem to trade differently (I assume we are talking trades through II)?

Aside from the exit strategy, would I not be better off buying a Palm Desert unit that I would like to stay at, instead of paying the II trade fee to trade into Shadow Ridge Enclaves?  I know I will never go to Branson (unless some strange twist of fate puts me there, it is not in my travel plans).  If I was thinking exit plan, I would probably want a Plat. unit... and I'm not sure how readily available that will be -- what do you think?

Cheers.


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## steve1000 (Jan 5, 2013)

My timeshare strategy has been to own high-end timeshares that I want to return to regularly. I view my timeshares as a "virtual second home". Whereas many of my friends own actual second homes (frequently more expensive than their first homes) - that they may use 3 months a year - and are preoccupied with year-round maintenance, the timeshares are luxurious, worry-free, and afford much greater flexibility and opportunities to travel to so many different locations. While my up-front and annual maintenance costs are pretty steep (for timeshares) they are much less than the costs of purchasing and maintaining a luxurious second home (yes, the timeshares are more like a condo than an entire house but condo living suits our needs well and we actually prefer staying at a hotel-type resort vs a private house). Personally, I like owning where I want to go to regularly (and being able to make early plane reservations) compared to the uncertainty of exchanging through II  - although we have gotten several great trades through II.

I own with Starwood, Hyatt, Marriott, Four Seasons, Royal Resorts and Grand Pacific. I wanted to own with different companies to be able to experience the best of what each has to offer - and the variety of resorts/locations. We love each of our resorts and are always happy to return to them. 

As far as the programs go - my favorite is Hyatt. I think it is the most flexible (can easily book short 2 or 3 day stays, can book online, flexible points system) and I love their locations although there are not nearly as many as Marriott. I think the quality levels of Hyatt and Westin are very comparable - and just a tad nicer than Marriott (which are also very nice). I too recommend getting a higher point week (1800, 2000, or 2200). We are in Florida and they have several wonderful locations within easy driving distance for me. We have also enjoyed our stays at the Hyatt resorts in Carmel, Lake Tahoe, Sedona and San Antonio. They have terrific ski resorts and while we are not skiers my family has enjoyed some ski reservations we have given them. Hyatt trades well in II although by the nature of their points system with II you can't use a low number of points to "trade up" to a 2 BR unit. Hyatt is easy to buy resale and IMO there's no real detriment to owning resale compared to buying directly from Hyatt. If their locations work for you - go for it - but if not then look elsewhere.

Our least flexible ownership is Four Seasons Aviara. It is really a niche purchase. FSA is magnificent and we love staying there. We own a single platinum week - getting a July or August reservation is almost impossible. I own a fixed early August week at Villa L'Auberge in Del Mar and have tried to get a consecutive reservation at Aviara but have not been able to do so. I may sell our week and just rent there but have not decided. We have traded into the Four Seasons Troon resort which is equally magnificent. 

We are 3* elite with Starwood - and have no interest in getting to 5* given our other ownerships. While the elite status is nice it is not that beneficial and would not be something I would recommend as an objective to attain (unless going for 5*). We recently did an internal upgrade and bought a platinum plus WSJ week in exchange for a gold WMH week and mucho dinero. I think there resorts are great although limited in number. I think they are doing a better job - than in the past - of controlling maintenance fees - although they are high.

Marriott has the most locations. I only have a single week that I did not enroll in their new points plan. We generally use our week at our home resort but have traded it with good results in II. The new points system appears to be much more expensive than their previous weeks system and I am not interested in buying new points - but buying Marriott resale where you want to regularly go seems to make good sense.

Good luck and enjoy your luxury travels!


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## marmite (Jan 5, 2013)

steve1000 said:


> My timeshare strategy has been to own high-end timeshares that I want to return to regularly. I view my timeshares as a "virtual second home". Whereas many of my friends own actual second homes (frequently more expensive than their first homes) - that they may use 3 months a year - and are preoccupied with year-round maintenance, the timeshares are luxurious, worry-free, and afford much greater flexibility and opportunities to travel to so many different locations.



That's an interesting thought -- I like that!  We were looking at buying a vacation home not too far from us (but in the US) so we could use it regularly, but were wondering how often we would really be able to use it, since it wouldn't really 'replace' our need to travel to other destinations (with better weather!), or to enjoy nice properties with all the services our home doesn't have (like a spa, chef and masseuse!).



steve1000 said:


> Personally, I like owning where I want to go to regularly (and being able to make early plane reservations) compared to the uncertainty of exchanging through II  - although we have gotten several great trades through II.



True, I'm a planner -- knowing when your booking window is and calling exactly 'x' months out at 9am EST has always worked well for me.



steve1000 said:


> As far as the programs go - my favorite is Hyatt. I think it is the most flexible (can easily book short 2 or 3 day stays, can book online, flexible points system) and I love their locations although there are not nearly as many as Marriott. I think the quality levels of Hyatt and Westin are very comparable - and just a tad nicer than Marriott (which are also very nice). I too recommend getting a higher point week (1800, 2000, or 2200).



Within the Hyatt system, do you feel it is very important to buy where you want to stay, or have you been pleased with the ease of trading into other Hyatt locations (outside of say the Stat Holiday weeks)?



steve1000 said:


> Hyatt trades well in II although by the nature of their points system with II you can't use a low number of points to "trade up" to a 2 BR unit. Hyatt is easy to buy resale and IMO there's no real detriment to owning resale compared to buying directly from Hyatt. If their locations work for you - go for it - but if not then look elsewhere.


That's a good thing to keep in mind, but for Hyatt I wasn't looking at it as being an II trader -- I liked that the internal trading system is available to resale owners.



steve1000 said:


> Our least flexible ownership is Four Seasons Aviara. It is really a niche purchase. FSA is magnificent and we love staying there. We own a single platinum week - getting a July or August reservation is almost impossible.



Thank you for this confirmation, I know I would be very disappointed if I purchased a Plat. week and still was not able to book those months.



steve1000 said:


> I own a fixed early August week at Villa L'Auberge in Del Mar and have tried to get a consecutive reservation at Aviara but have not been able to do so. I may sell our week and just rent there but have not decided. We have traded into the Four Seasons Troon resort which is equally magnificent.



Was the FS Troon traded directly through Four Seasons, or was that through another company (like II?).



steve1000 said:


> We are 3* elite with Starwood - and have no interest in getting to 5* given our other ownerships. While the elite status is nice it is not that beneficial and would not be something I would recommend as an objective to attain (unless going for 5*).



Good to know. Curious though, have you ever exchanged your week for Starpoints, or do you consider it a poor use of your week?



steve1000 said:


> Marriott has the most locations. I only have a single week that I did not enroll in their new points plan. We generally use our week at our home resort but have traded it with good results in II. The new points system appears to be much more expensive than their previous weeks system and I am not interested in buying new points - but buying Marriott resale where you want to regularly go seems to make good sense.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy your luxury travels!



Thank you so much for your post. You've given me a lot to think about.

Cheers.


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## steve1000 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hello Marmite - 

The Hyatt internal trading system is excellent. I'd say buy a high point value week at a low maintenance fee Hyatt resort e.g. Hyatt Beach House and use the points for trading internally. We own a 2200 point Beach House week and have never stayed there - using the points to go to Coconut Plantation in Bonita Springs, or to the Hyatts in Carmel, Tahoe, Sedona and San Antonio. With advance planning internal trading is easy with the exception of holiday weeks, trading into the ultra high-end resorts (e.g. Aspen, Siesta Key), and probably ski weeks (we're not skiers so haven't aggressively pursued ski weeks). You should note that if planning to buy Hyatt there is a strategy for the week number that you buy since the points are credited to your account annually on the anniversary of your week and the timing of when the points are credited to the account may make it easier/more difficult to trade into particular seasons. Check out the Hyatt posts elsewhere on TUG for more information on the strategies.

As for our FSA trade into Four Seasons Troon that was an internal trade through Four Seasons and was pretty easy (it was gold season at Troon).

We have not converted our Starwood weeks into Starpoints because I don't think it is the best value. We have the Starwood Amex card and get lots of points through that. We generally rent out the weeks we can't use - but I do like having the alternative to convert to Starpoints if needed at some point.

Good luck.


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## Ken555 (Jan 5, 2013)

marmite said:


> Curious though, have you ever exchanged your week for Starpoints, or do you consider it a poor use of your week?



In my opinion, if you can't use your week and don't have the desire to rent, it's now a better strategy to bank your StarOptions for the next year rather than receiving relatively poor results with StarPoints (compared to your MF), assuming the intention is to redeem at Starwood hotels (especially in North America).


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## trader14 (Jan 5, 2013)

i own at marriott and starwood and marriott owners may correct me because i don't know their system well but from the little i do know I prefer starwood especially units with staroptions as they offer the most flexibility and ease of changing resorts.  if you don't have staroptions you will be limited with your ability to change resorts


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## PamMo (Jan 5, 2013)

I like owning in both systems. I love our Starwood resorts (Maui and Harborside), but haven't traded for other weeks with StarOptions because most of the other Starwood resorts I can get into with a cheap generic trader (with the exception of WSJ). I love the Marriott priority in II, and have had some wonderful Marriott-to-Marriott uptrades with our lockoffs. Marriott resorts have a much broader range of locations than Starwood. I don't have enough experience with the Marriott DC program yet, but others really like the flexibility of points. Unfortunately, membership in the DC points program doesn't transfer with resale weeks. I still think the key is to really examine where/how you want to vacation.


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## marmite (Jan 5, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> In my opinion, if you can't use your week and don't have the desire to rent, it's now a better strategy to bank your StarOptions for the next year rather than receiving relatively poor results with StarPoints (compared to your MF), assuming the intention is to redeem at Starwood hotels (especially in North America).



For my purposes, Starpoints was of interest to me for European destinations, where the room rates are considerably higher than the US (for equivalent quality of hotels).  To get those Starpoints, I would be buying from the developer instead of resale, so you could argue that I would just be better off throwing my money away on the rack-rate at hotels when I need a room.  Buying a Starwood resale unit (which I have already done), I can just continue trading through II and leaving my weeks there, since you have quite a long window before you need to make a trade.  

I think I've pretty much decided against buying another Starwood week with the intent of re-qualifying it with a developer purchase.  There aren't any Starwood properties that I feel I 'must' own at, and the ones I want to go to are fairly easy trades (presently at least).  I liked the 'idea' of converting to Starpoints, but on closer inspection it doesn't seem like much of a deal when all costs are factored in. 

Thanks for your post.


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## marmite (Jan 5, 2013)

PamMo said:


> I like owning in both systems. I love our Starwood resorts (Maui and Harborside), but haven't traded for other weeks with StarOptions because most of the other Starwood resorts I can get into with a cheap generic trader (with the exception of WSJ). I love the Marriott priority in II, and have had some wonderful Marriott-to-Marriott uptrades with our lockoffs. Marriott resorts have a much broader range of locations than Starwood. I don't have enough experience with the Marriott DC program yet, but others really like the flexibility of points. Unfortunately, membership in the DC points program doesn't transfer with resale weeks. I still think the key is to really examine where/how you want to vacation.



The Marriott priority in II really appeals to me, as I can see how well the Starwood priority has been working for me so far -- and the uptrades are great too (I love my lock-off!).  From what I'm reading about the Marriott DC program, I don't think I'd be interested in buying from the developer -- I would be content to stay at my home resort and/or trade through II if I were to purchase Marriott.  I will have to go look at this again, but I believe with Marriott I would have to pay a service fee to lock off my unit before depositing with II -- does that sound right?  If so, I would have to consider if I am using the unit to trade mostly (then focus on low MFs), or to stay in my home resort most years (then focus on buying where I love).

Thanks for your comments.


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## marmite (Jan 5, 2013)

trader14 said:


> i own at marriott and starwood and marriott owners may correct me because i don't know their system well but from the little i do know I prefer starwood especially units with staroptions as they offer the most flexibility and ease of changing resorts.  if you don't have staroptions you will be limited with your ability to change resorts



If I were really keen on staying at WSJ, I would probably be more interested in a developer purchase or mandatory resort to use those StarOptions.  I am finding that not having access to StarOptions has not been a problem so far with my SDO unit.  It trades very well, and I have enjoyed up-trades through II.  

Providing that I buy a good Marriott trader, I would expect some similar results within II and not worry too much about access to their DC points system.

Cheers.


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## ThreeLittleBirds (Jan 5, 2013)

After spending a week at the Marriott Waiohai, I'm also toying w/ the idea of a Marriott for the preference period. We did a retrade to get in there, and it happened literally the day before we left. I know the same week was available via Marriott preference w/ II at least a month before.

However, as of now, I own more weeks than I can use. I'm sure that doesn't rule out anything, especially if I rent some of my weeks out. 

In 4-5 years, my vacation time will be much more abundant, and I feel like it is a good time economically to acquire another week or two. Not sure I could do Branson, MO, but the MF are tempting. I use all but one of my weeks as a trader, but in the worst case scenario, I wouldn't mind staying at any resort I own. I'll probably start looking at CA properties.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 5, 2013)

marmite said:


> The Marriott priority in II really appeals to me, as I can see how well the Starwood priority has been working for me so far -- and the uptrades are great too (I love my lock-off!).  From what I'm reading about the Marriott DC program, I don't think I'd be interested in buying from the developer -- I would be content to stay at my home resort and/or trade through II if I were to purchase Marriott.  I will have to go look at this again, but I believe with Marriott I would have to pay a service fee to lock off my unit before depositing with II -- does that sound right?  If so, I would have to consider if I am using the unit to trade mostly (then focus on low MFs), or to stay in my home resort most years (then focus on buying where I love).
> 
> Thanks for your comments.



With Marriott a 1BR trades almost identical to a 2BR on instant trading so if you look at the $80 lock off fee as a fee to buy an extra week it is quite reasonable. Marriott's actual expense increases by locking off so the $80 fee makes sense. If they didn't charge it then the maintenance fee would just be higher but that would not be fair to owners who never lock off.


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## VacationForever (Jan 5, 2013)

marmite said:


> That's good feedback on Carmel, that is the most convenient location for me (despite my living in Canada), but I've only been there in the Summer -- when it wasn't so dreary.
> Would you share with me what Marriott's you were interested in, or found appealing?  I am trying to weigh the buy-where-you-want-to-stay strategy, vs. just buying a good trader (like I did with SDO).



Hi Marmite,
I spent several years tolerating getting on the plane for work and I now avoid flying as much as I can.  My ideal getaway is somewhere that I can drive to within a day.  Carmel was perfect on paper and while I had spent time at Carmel in the past, staying at Hyatt Highlands Inn in May was an awakening that it was a bit too cold and remote.   

I have not bought a Marriott yet because all resorts with 2br lockoffs except Shadow Ridge Enclaves Deluxe, as you have pointed out, are made up of 1br and a studio.  While my husband and I travel without other folks most of the time, we are used to having lots of space and a studio size room for a week is quite unattractive - we live in a huge house and there are only 3 of us and sometimes we have difficulty locating each other.   Further more, there are several posts about difficulty in trading up from a studio in II. 

The Marriott that I have short listed are the ones in Palm Springs area, Newport Coast and Canyon Villas.  Each has its pros and cons.  Not speaking with data, I believe Canyon Villas has higher trading power than Palm Springs resorts.  Palm Springs is overbuilt.  As you have experienced strong trading power with SDO, Canyon Villas is in the same area.  Newport Coast should really be used for my personal consumption since it does not lock off.  Trading it is going to be such waste since we do not really need 2br most of the time, and you only get one trade out of Newport Coast.  If you are serious about buying Marriott and believe that Shadow Ridge Enclaves Deluxe makes the most sense, I suggest that you contact Fred to shop for availability. He specializes in Marriott Palm Springs resorts, plus folks at the forum like him. I am sure the unit will fetch a premium.

Good luck.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 5, 2013)

marmite said:


> I had a question about your point '2.' -- Why would this trade better than Shadow Ridge?  Especially if I were able to find a deluxe Shadow Ridge that locks off into two one bedroom units (if that is possible to find resale).  If the Season I buy is equal in both properties, do they seem to trade differently (I assume we are talking trades through II)?
> 
> Aside from the exit strategy, would I not be better off buying a Palm Desert unit that I would like to stay at, instead of paying the II trade fee to trade into Shadow Ridge Enclaves?  I know I will never go to Branson (unless some strange twist of fate puts me there, it is not in my travel plans).  If I was thinking exit plan, I would probably want a Plat. unit... and I'm not sure how readily available that will be -- what do you think?
> 
> Cheers.



I own both Shadow Ridge and Willow Ridge. When I do a search I will select a unit and see what comes up, then I redo the search using the other resort to see if there is a difference. In three exchanges I have made, the WR resort selection gave me a couple of more dates that my SR did not. I do not know why one property pulls up more options than the other, but I can say that I have seen more using WR in searches.

In terms of the difference here is what you would be looking at :

2br SR Enclaves MF about $1150 per year for 1 week stay

2 br WR MF $933. L/O $80 plus two $124 M-M trades = approx $1260 for two weeks or $630 per week for where you are staying.

By using your SR, you are paying $1150 to stay in that unit vs trading into it for $630 per week. Currently my studio pulls up 2br SR/DS I/II for most of the year.

Or you can lock off your SR MF $1150. L/O $80 plus two $124 M-M trades = approx $1480 for two weeks or $740 per week for where you are staying, which you can trade back in SR possibly getting 2 x 2br. ​I think the WR sells better than you would expect. It sells from less than 1/10 the price of SR/DS I/II and $200 less in MF, trades better. I never intend on going to Branson either, I use it as a pure trader. Many keep advising buy where you want to go, but if where you want to go is easily traded for, why would you be worried where you own ? Trading into that the Palm Desert area is VERY VERY easy.

I personally love Hawaii and would love to go back all the time, but that doesn't mean I am prepared to pay the higher cost to buy a Hawaii resort and its MF to "guarantee usage" as I can, with some patience, generally go there most of the times that I want through exchanges. It sounds like you are experiencing that with your SDO for exchanges.

WR Platinum's are alot easier to find than SR/DS I/II. I am not too concerned about an exit plan for WR. I put way less money into it initially, every year about $200 lower MF, and get better trades. 

SR : $5K Purchase plus $1150/yr assume 10 yr no incr MF - total $16,500 Invest w/ $1150 liability yrly
WR : $80 Purchase plus $933/yr assume 10 yr no incr MF - total $9410 Invest w/ $933 liability​Am I worried about something I invested next to nothing into and gotten great vacation deals out of that I would not have been able to get otherwise ? NOPE NOPE NOPE.

If you feel more comfortable owning in Palm Desert, then by all means, it is what you want to own at the end of the day. There are alternatives and only you can decide if it can work for you. After going through the experience of owning both, I am in the process of selling my SR as I find WR a better value for me all round.


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## Ken555 (Jan 6, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Marriott's actual expense increases by locking off so the $80 fee makes sense. If they didn't charge it then the maintenance fee would just be higher but that would not be fair to owners who never lock off.



Really? This was one of those issues which caused me to lean toward Starwood back when I first considered timeshares. I don't understand what expense Marriott is incurring when you lock off a unit. Starwood doesn't charge anything for it.


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## Beefnot (Jan 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Really? This was one of those issues which caused me to lean toward Starwood back when I first considered timeshares. I don't understand what expense Marriott is incurring when you lock off a unit. Starwood doesn't charge anything for it.



The salaried maintenance main needs to go the unit to lock the door between units. No extra expense there.


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## Ken555 (Jan 6, 2013)

Beefnot said:


> The salaried maintenance main needs to go the unit to lock the door between units. No extra expense there.



Riiight. Whereas Starwood uses their well designed and current tech systems to lock the door between units remotely with a simple push of a button. I'm sure they internally call it the StarLOCK app... Seriously though, this junk fee is great for Marriott's bottom line yet makes absolutely no sense, but I shouldn't be surprised some obviously believe Marriott that there are costs involved with locking off a unit (and I suspect this justification was made by a Marriott sales rep, but that's another story).


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## LisaRex (Jan 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> I don't understand what expense Marriott is incurring when you lock off a unit. Starwood doesn't charge anything for it.



When you use the entire 2 bedroom unit yourself, there is only one party to deal with.  When you lock off, they have to write, count 'em, TWO greeting letters.  Plus the beleaguered concierge has to track down TWO parties to browbe--, er, INVITE them to attend a TS presentation.  Surely you can see how that is worth $80.


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## heathpack (Jan 6, 2013)

Consider Hyatt High Sierra (Tahoe) if you are looking for the closest Hyatt with lower MF (around $1000 for a 2BR).  Try to buy a summer week.  All Hyatt weeks are fixed weeks/units with a points overlay.

We spent a July weekend at the Hyatt in Carmel and it was 50 degrees and foggy.  Tahoe is probably better weather during summer vacation, unless you are looking for coast.

Hyatt internal trading is very easy with good availability if you are reasonable in your requests.  I know you said you are not interested in trading Hyatt in II, but it is a blazingly good economical II trader. You get an automatic discount in points when trading in II.  For example, if you own a diamond week (2200 points), a 2BR red week in II only costs you 1300 points, leaving you with 900.  That is enough to book a 1BR red week.  Plus 2 XYZ exchanges if you can use them.

H


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## grgs (Jan 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Really? This was one of those issues which caused me to lean toward Starwood back when I first considered timeshares. I don't understand what expense Marriott is incurring when you lock off a unit. Starwood doesn't charge anything for it.



This was also one reason I chose Starwood (back in 2004--has it really been that long ago?!). I know Starwood mf are higher but that lockoff fee irks me.  The main reasons I chose Starwood were the internal trade system and the WKV unit locking off into two 1 bedroom units.

Glorian


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## Beefnot (Jan 6, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> When you use the entire 2 bedroom unit yourself, there is only one party to deal with.  When you lock off, they have to write, count 'em, TWO greeting letters.  Plus the beleaguered concierge has to track down TWO parties to browbe--, er, INVITE them to attend a TS presentation.  Surely you can see how that is worth $80.



Well there you go. The cost of ink and paper these days is nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, and somebody's got to compensate Marriott for the privilege of increasing their chances of closing a timeshare sale. Thanks for the education


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## VacationForever (Jan 6, 2013)

grgs said:


> This was also one reason I chose Starwood (back in 2004--has it really been that long ago?!). I know Starwood mf are higher but that lockoff fee irks me.  The main reasons I chose Starwood were the internal trade system and the WKV unit locking off into two 1 bedroom units.
> 
> Glorian



Same here, when I was shopping for my second resale week, I consulted with Denise and she gave a very good advice to look at Marriott for diversity and choices of location.  However when I learned that there was a lockoff fee, I was really put off and went ahead to buy another Starwood.  I have since gotten over their lockoff fee and just add it to the gross maintenance fee.


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## marmite (Jan 6, 2013)

You all are way too funny. Yes, I was put off by the lock-off fee too.  Because I am so spoiled by trading a one bedroom unit in II for a two bedroom, I don't think I would actually use any timeshare to use the 2 bedroom in a year.  Why do that when I can turn it into 2 trades and 2 xyz weeks?

However, paying the lock-off fee (which I would probably have to do each and every year) makes me wonder why not just buy two 1 bedroom units, possibly one of them in a place I would want to go almost every year, and 1 to trade?  I will have to look at the difference in MF between two 1 bedroom units, but that would give the ultimate flexibility for resorts.  I could even just buy a 1 bed Marriott trader (to use in II) AND a Hyatt 1 bedroom.  (I can just imagine me selling that idea to my husband right now).

Bad idea, right?


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 6, 2013)

marmite said:


> You all are way too funny. Yes, I was put off by the lock-off fee too.  Because I am so spoiled by trading a one bedroom unit in II for a two bedroom, I don't think I would actually use any timeshare to use the 2 bedroom in a year.  Why do that when I can turn it into 2 trades and 2 xyz weeks?
> 
> However, paying the lock-off fee (which I would probably have to do each and every year) makes me wonder why not just buy two 1 bedroom units, possibly one of them in a place I would want to go almost every year, and 1 to trade?  I will have to look at the difference in MF between two 1 bedroom units, but that would give the ultimate flexibility for resorts.  I could even just buy a 1 bed Marriott trader (to use in II) AND a Hyatt 1 bedroom.  (I can just imagine me selling that idea to my husband right now).
> 
> Bad idea, right?



Many of the Marriotts are 2 br units and I don't think that there are very many 1 br for sale. The price would probably be more than 1/2 of the 2 br and the MF will most certainly be more than 1/2 just as it is in SDO. The better value is the 2 br.

I find it quite humorous people being put off by the $80 L/O fee as I consider it part of the MF and take it into my overall consideration and calculation of costs. People are going to Starwood just because they don't have this fee but willing to pay a higher MF ? Doesn't it work out to be the same in the wash ? Whether they charge it together or separately so you can see it, it is all the same, it comes out of your pocket. I would think the bigger deciding factor would be if the resort has the quality and locations you desire. $80 is not going to break anyone's bank account. I am not suggesting that I agree or like this BS fee, but it is what it is much like some of the fees charged by hotels like convenience fees, resort usage fees or airlines and all their misc fees added the ticket price. I just say tell me what my bottom line is with however you are justifying it and I will decide if I am willing to sign on for it or not. Plain and simple. No point in getting upset over how they are splitting it, it still comes from my wallet.

If it makes any of you feel better, my other timeshare Sunchaser Fairmont Hotsprings, charges $160 to lock off the unit, so $80 is a bargain, lol.


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## marmite (Jan 6, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Consider Hyatt High Sierra (Tahoe) if you are looking for the closest Hyatt with lower MF (around $1000 for a 2BR).  Try to buy a summer week.  All Hyatt weeks are fixed weeks/units with a points overlay.
> 
> We spent a July weekend at the Hyatt in Carmel and it was 50 degrees and foggy.  Tahoe is probably better weather during summer vacation, unless you are looking for coast.
> 
> ...



So the Summer week at High Sierra, it appears to be Platinum (week 26-34) which would be 2000 pts (sorry if I am getting this wrong, I am still trying to figure out the Hyatt system), is that correct?   For the ultimate trading in II with Hyatt, it looks like I need 2170 pts. per year to turn that into a Red week 2 bedroom AND 1 week 1 bedroom trade. That would mean I'd buy a Diamond unit there, but then not be able to book a Summer week during my home resort preference period?

With High Sierra and the Hyatt system is it correct that I could (during my home resort preference period), reserve the 1 bedroom side and deposit the remaining points in II?  Then I would just do one trade in II (likely for a 1 bedroom, because Hyatt not give you up-trades in II)?  Is there better value to you when you deposit your whole unit?

I am reading Kal's site right now and trying to wade through the information. It is hard for me to figure out the strategy in owning a specific week in relation to the booking windows for my home resort, and the deposits to II.  For instance, if was looking for a Summer week to buy, would I be better off trying to find something near week 26, or near week 34, depending on my travel patterns?  Or do you find that when you own doesn't really factor in once you deposit it into II?

Thanks for your help, I wasn't really thinking of the external trading possibilities when considering a Hyatt purchase.


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## marmite (Jan 6, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Many of the Marriotts are 2 br units and I don't think that there are very many 1 br for sale. The price would probably be more than 1/2 of the 2 br and the MF will most certainly be more than 1/2 just as it is in SDO. The better value is the 2 br.
> 
> I find it quite humorous people being put off by the $80 L/O fee as I consider it part of the MF and take it into my overall consideration and calculation of costs. People are going to Starwood just because they don't have this fee but willing to pay a higher MF ? Doesn't it work out to be the same in the wash ? Whether they charge it together or separately so you can see it, it is all the same, it comes out of your pocket. I would think the bigger deciding factor would be if the resort has the quality and locations you desire. $80 is not going to break anyone's bank account. I am not suggesting that I agree or like this BS fee, but it is what it is much like some of the fees charged by hotels like convenience fees, resort usage fees or airlines and all their misc fees added the ticket price. I just say tell me what my bottom line is with however you are justifying it and I will decide if I am willing to sign on for it or not. Plain and simple. No point in getting upset over how they are splitting it, it still comes from my wallet.
> 
> If it makes any of you feel better, my other timeshare Sunchaser Fairmont Hotsprings, charges $160 to lock off the unit, so $80 is a bargain, lol.



I think it's the fact that they HAVE the separate fee, that I also have to consider that Marriott will raise that (maybe it will go up to $160!), so will have to factor in an increase over time (just like I do for the MF).  But you're right, $80 isn't the deciding factor on the purchase, and that amount won't break the bank. Truly, there's likely nothing (legally) preventing Starwood from doing this in the future -- I doubt there is anything we would be able to do about it if they did.


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 6, 2013)

marmite said:


> I think it's the fact that they HAVE the separate fee, that I also have to consider that Marriott will raise that (maybe it will go up to $160!), so will have to factor in an increase over time (just like I do for the MF).  But you're right, $80 isn't the deciding factor on the purchase, and that amount won't break the bank. Truly, there's likely nothing (legally) preventing Starwood from doing this in the future -- I doubt there is anything we would be able to do about it if they did.



Yes you are absolutely right there isn't anything we can do even if they do raise that fee. Even if it does go to $160 up $80, divided by two, it adds another $40 per week. I think the bigger concern would be the increase in MF over time vs the small fees (which of course add up over time). 

Currently Starwood does not have it, but if numerous resorts have it, what are the chances that Starwood are not going to start putting that in sometime in the future ? Probably pretty good. 

Let's just count our blessings and say overall we are getting some kick ass deals for some wonderful vacation memories


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## grgs (Jan 6, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> I find it quite humorous people being put off by the $80 L/O fee as I consider it part of the MF and take it into my overall consideration and calculation of costs. People are going to Starwood just because they don't have this fee but willing to pay a higher MF ? Doesn't it work out to be the same in the wash ? Whether they charge it together or separately so you can see it, it is all the same, it comes out of your pocket. I would think the bigger deciding factor would be if the resort has the quality and locations you desire. $80 is not going to break anyone's bank account. I am not suggesting that I agree or like this BS fee, but it is what it is much like some of the fees charged by hotels like convenience fees, resort usage fees or airlines and all their misc fees added the ticket price. I just say tell me what my bottom line is with however you are justifying it and I will decide if I am willing to sign on for it or not. Plain and simple. No point in getting upset over how they are splitting it, it still comes from my wallet.



What can I say?  We're not always rational creatures.  However, when I was comparing Starwood & Marriott, the lockoff fee was just one minor, if annoying, issue.  As I said earlier, my bigger considerations were the internal trading ability (with no additional fees for internal exchanges) & the WKV locking off into two 1 bedroom units.  I like Starwood resorts a bit more than Marriott (although, I like Marriott, too).  If I had liked Marriott better, the lockoff fee wouldn't have been a deal breaker.

But you're right, of course, we all pay one way or another.

Glorian


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## Quadmaniac (Jan 6, 2013)

grgs said:


> What can I say?  We're not always rational creatures.  However, when I was comparing Starwood & Marriott, the lockoff fee was just one minor, if annoying, issue.  As I said earlier, my bigger considerations were the internal trading ability (with no additional fees for internal exchanges) & the WKV locking off into two 1 bedroom units.  I like Starwood resorts a bit more than Marriott (although, I like Marriott, too).  If I had like Marriott better, the lockoff fee wouldn't have been a deal breaker.
> 
> But you're right, of course, we all pay one way or another.
> 
> Glorian



Haha, yeah, lol. Internal trading ability with no additional fees is one of those things that is a consideration, but again what is your overall cost for your exchange when everything is said and done ? Nothing is ever really "free" as we pay for it one way or another. Maybe we are more comfortable when everything is wrapped up in a simple one fee package instead of separate fees, but on the other hand it is nice to have thing separate just in case you don't need it, why have it bundled in ? The reverse argument can be made, why am I paying a higher fee for things I might not use like locking off ?

There have been some discussions in some of the other threads about the lock off studios and their trading power. I still seem to find a locked off studio can still get you a 2 or 3 br sometimes. If that is a huge concern, Marriott Grand Chateau 3br locks off into a 2br and a full 1 br and much cheaper than WKV - probably 1/2 to purchase resale with similar MF as WKV.


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## grgs (Jan 6, 2013)

Quadmaniac said:


> Haha, yeah, lol. Internal trading ability with no additional fees is one of those things that is a consideration, but again what is your overall cost for your exchange when everything is said and done? Nothing is ever really "free" as we pay for it one way or another.


 
I agree that we do pay one way or another.  However, the internal trading ability is very important to me.  I don't think Interval would have gotten me into Harborside in June, and I know it wouldn't have gotten me there for 13 days, but I was able to do this with SVN.  I admit I paid a premium to have the internal trade option, but it was worth it to me. 



Quadmaniac said:


> The reverse argument can be made, why am I paying a higher fee for things I might not use like locking off ?



Good point--I can certainly see that someone who never or rarely locks off would agree with this.



Quadmaniac said:


> There have been some discussions in some of the other threads about the lock off studios and their trading power. I still seem to find a locked off studio can still get you a 2 or 3 br sometimes. If that is a huge concern, Marriott Grand Chateau 3br locks off into a 2br and a full 1 br and much cheaper than WKV - probably 1/2 to purchase resale with similar MF as WKV.



I love my WKV units--not interested in Vegas. : )

In any case, the issue of the lock off splitting into two 1 bedroom units has less to do with II trading (although that's a concern), but more to do with use.  I'd much rather stay in the small one bedroom half than in a studio (whether at WKV or SDO or WMH or WDW).

Just to be clear, I don't think your strategy is wrong--it's just not the route I would choose.

Glorian


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## heathpack (Jan 7, 2013)

marmite said:


> So the Summer week at High Sierra, it appears to be Platinum (week 26-34) which would be 2000 pts (sorry if I am getting this wrong, I am still trying to figure out the Hyatt system), is that correct?   For the ultimate trading in II with Hyatt, it looks like I need 2170 pts. per year to turn that into a Red week 2 bedroom AND 1 week 1 bedroom trade. That would mean I'd buy a Diamond unit there, but then not be able to book a Summer week during my home resort preference period?
> 
> With High Sierra and the Hyatt system is it correct that I could (during my home resort preference period), reserve the 1 bedroom side and deposit the remaining points in II?  Then I would just do one trade in II (likely for a 1 bedroom, because Hyatt not give you up-trades in II)?  Is there better value to you when you deposit your whole unit?
> 
> ...



There are no lock off units in High Sierra, so you either use an entire 2BR unit or you take the points and stay elsewhere.

There is no home resort preference.  You either stay in your owned unit or you enter an equal pool with all other Hyatt owners to reserve any available unit in club use.

You are right about there being no diamond (2200 point) weeks at High Sierra in summer- sorry I was not thinking of that when I wrote.

As far as Hyatt week strategy goes, it depends on many things.  If you think you will stay at the resort you own, I would put the highest priority on buying the week you want to stay.  If you want to use the Hyatt system, figure out when you will most likely want to be traveling and aim to have a week with fresh points in it six months before you want to stay.  For example, we own a May/June week and that is great for late Nov-Jan stays.  Unused points must be deposited in II by Feb.  For summer stays, owning a Nov or Dec week would work better- perhaps Christmas week if you are wanting a diamond week. If you want to trade in Interal, then the timing doesn't matter, just get the most points for the least MF.

H


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## marmite (Jan 8, 2013)

heathpack said:


> There are no lock off units in High Sierra, so you either use an entire 2BR unit or you take the points and stay elsewhere.
> 
> There is no home resort preference.  You either stay in your owned unit or you enter an equal pool with all other Hyatt owners to reserve any available unit in club use.
> 
> ...



The points would be really important to me if I trade inside the Hyatt system.  I hate studio/efficiency units.  Yup. Hate. That said, I would need the full 2200 points, to be able to get a 2 bedroom and 1 bedroom trade out of it.

What I'm not sure about though, is if I relinquish my week to II, what would my trade options be?  Does my 2 bedroom only get me a 2 bedroom in II, or can it get me more than one week?  Selfish, I know... but I love the uptrades!

I also realized that with Hyatt I would need to have a separate II account for that... it cannot piggy-back on my existing II account (so that is sadly another fee to consider).  Is an II account OPTIONAL for Hyatt owners, so if I don't plan on using II can I avoid the membership fee?

Thanks again.


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## heathpack (Jan 11, 2013)

marmite said:


> The points would be really important to me if I trade inside the Hyatt system.  I hate studio/efficiency units.  Yup. Hate. That said, I would need the full 2200 points, to be able to get a 2 bedroom and 1 bedroom trade out of it.
> 
> What I'm not sure about though, is if I relinquish my week to II, what would my trade options be?  Does my 2 bedroom only get me a 2 bedroom in II, or can it get me more than one week?  Selfish, I know... but I love the uptrades!
> 
> ...



II membership is included in Hyatt MF, so there is no additional fee.

You seem to fundamentally be mis-understanding how Hyatt trades in II.  It does not trade week-for-week, so no a 2BR deposit does not get you a 2BR exchange.  A 2BR diamond Hyatt week is worth 2200 points.  A 2BR red week in II "costs" 1300 points.  So you have 900 points left.  A 1BR red week in II "costs" 870 points.  So a 2BR diamond Hyatt week would yield a 2BR interval red week plus a 1BR interval red week.  It will yield more weeks in lesser season or smaller units.  The definition of season color is based in IIs TDI- ie a certain range of TDI equals red season.  These are published numbers.

If you want to use your points in the Hyatt system, there is an entirely different points chart.  You will NOT trade a 2BR diamond Hyatt for a 1BR plus a 2BR unless you travel extremely off season and even then in most locales you can not do it.

The advantage in II is that your points go far (especially if studios work for you, as they do for us).  The advantage in Hyatt club use is that you can access weeks that folks outside the Hyatt system cannot but your points DO NOT go far.  Basically if you own a 2BR week and want to use it in club use, you get a 2BR week or a 1BR plus a studio unless you travel in an undesirable season.

A resale Hyatt diamond week is $12,000 and up, I believe.  I think you might be mixed up as to how Hyatt works.  $12k is a lot to spend unless you understand the system and know it will work for you. 

H


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## MaryH (Jan 11, 2013)

Hyatt points cost for stays are different depending on the resort, season/week and unit size.  There is a very good chart on Kal's website.  II trade rans off the season color charts and different than the Hyatt internal charts.

Unless you can always use the week/unit you bought, you have no advantage over any other Hyatt owner to book any other week at your home resort.  If you plan earlier, you are higher on the waitlist than someone that booked later.  

You need to understand how the system works and have enough points.  Try not to let your points go into LCUP since that is very hard to use.  I lost some points due to that.

Once I understand the hyatt system, I love how it works, especially when you have some flexibility.  But it is not always easy to understand it...


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## MaryH (Jan 11, 2013)

Which system have TS stays count towards the hotel programs ELITE qualification?  Is it Marriott or SVO?


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## Ken555 (Jan 11, 2013)

MaryH said:


> Which system have TS stays count towards the hotel programs ELITE qualification?  Is it Marriott or SVO?



Marriott...


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## marmite (Jan 12, 2013)

heathpack said:


> II membership is included in Hyatt MF, so there is no additional fee.
> 
> You seem to fundamentally be mis-understanding how Hyatt trades in II.  It does not trade week-for-week, so no a 2BR deposit does not get you a 2BR exchange.  A 2BR diamond Hyatt week is worth 2200 points.  A 2BR red week in II "costs" 1300 points.  So you have 900 points left.  A 1BR red week in II "costs" 870 points.  So a 2BR diamond Hyatt week would yield a 2BR interval red week plus a 1BR interval red week.  It will yield more weeks in lesser season or smaller units.  The definition of season color is based in IIs TDI- ie a certain range of TDI equals red season.  These are published numbers.



You're right (I was not understanding how it trades in II at all). I could find the points chart for Hyatt, but hadn't found the chart for how it trades in II until the other night. When you have an II account for a Hyatt unit, does it somehow look different when you search for units and make a trade for your points than an account for another brand of timeshare? When I search in II with my Starwood, I can't see anything that indicates red time or tdi, etc. I am assuming that only the Hyatt II account will show you point values for each resort, possibly filtering out resorts that take more points than you have available?

Thanks for your help.


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## sgilbert (Jan 14, 2013)

*which trades have you made?*

I am a Marriott owner who just bought Starwood so I am very interested in what trades you made.  I think buying a Marriott resale for platinum season is worthwhile, I own 2 weeks with Desert Springs 2 and they trade pretty well into other Marriotts and I also have had luck outside of Marriott, but like everything else you need to be patient.

Where do you own and what trades have you made?


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## D2-S3 (Jan 15, 2013)

*hyatt or marriott*

I am a Hyatt owner who purchased SDO after several years of timeshare ownership.

I liked Hyatt resorts a bit more than the Marriott or Starwood resorts where I have stayed.  The internal trading system is easy, and the resorts are beautiful.  However, there is more value with my Starwood property when considering the acquisition costs.  I own at Pinon point, where the MF's are low, but you just can't buy Hyatt resale as cheaply.  You definately want 2200 points with Hyatt because some of the nicer resorts require that amount to trade into...


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## marmite (Jan 16, 2013)

gil34 said:


> I am a Marriott owner who just bought Starwood so I am very interested in what trades you made.  I think buying a Marriott resale for platinum season is worthwhile, I own 2 weeks with Desert Springs 2 and they trade pretty well into other Marriotts and I also have had luck outside of Marriott, but like everything else you need to be patient.
> 
> Where do you own and what trades have you made?



Hi gil34,  I'm not sure if you're addressing me, the OP or not, but I have a 2 bedroom SDO Gold Plus lock-off and have only made trades through II:

For my 1 Bedroom Side A (the larger unit):
- 1 BDR Marriott Lakeshore Reserve Orlando for Summer
- 1 BDR Westin Kierland Villas for Christmas Week (ongoing request)

For my 1 Bedroom Side B (smaller unit):
- 2 BDR Westin Princeville Ocean for Summer
- 3 BDR Manteo Beach Club for Fall

Happy trading!


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