# ATA is out of business too!/ATA Refunds [merged]



## glenn1000 (Apr 3, 2008)

What a week for travel to and from Hawaii.  

http://www.ata.com/


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## Icarus (Apr 3, 2008)

Wow .. not much info out there about it yet. There's an article under breaking news on honoluluadvertiser.com. Nothing on iflyswa.com yet.

Here's a bit more info (about all I could find so far)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=808528

-David


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## sml2181 (Apr 3, 2008)

Indeed Wow...

I hope not too many people bought ATA tickets, after Aloha went out of business. (Just reread the Aloha post - at least 1 Tugger did!)

How sad.


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## sandesurf (Apr 3, 2008)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080403/ap_on_bi_ge/ata_bankruptcy

From Yahoo News this morning...


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## tmartin1 (Apr 3, 2008)

OMG!! I just fixed my return flights (which were on Aloha).

But my flights to Hawaii were on ATA.

This is a flippin nightmare!!!


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## Stefa (Apr 3, 2008)

What a mess!  My heart goes out to all of you who have to deal with this.  

We almost bought tickets on ATA for this Christmas.  Great price, but we didn't like the flight times getting into HI too late for our kids.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 3, 2008)

*Airplanes.*

I knew a guy who had been involved in establishing a small- to mid-size USA airline, got bought out, & completed his professional career as an airline industry consultant.  

The guy said he discovered that people know how to make money by designing airplanes, building airplanes, selling airplanes, leasing airplanes, fixing airplanes, etc. 

Hardly anybody yet, the guy said, has figured out how to make any money by flying airplanes. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tmartin1 (Apr 3, 2008)

My heart rate is almost back to normal....

I went ahead and booked on Hawaiian. The flight was at the same time as ATA. There were only about 30 seats left on the flight. Once the word gets out, those seats will be gone - I predict by this morning. Thank goodness that I watched the news this morning, otherwise I think I would have found out too late.

It cost me an extra $1200 - but at this point, I don't care. Now I get to call my CC company AGAIN.

Interesting thing - I received an automated e-mail from ATA, timed at 3:00 am informing me of the shutdown. Never received anything like that from Aloha.

Theresa


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## nygiants11991 (Apr 3, 2008)

So what airlines are left that fly from the west coast (Sacramento/San Francisco) to Hawaii???


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## MissTins (Apr 3, 2008)

Wow - I'm shocked.  We typically fly the majors to build up our frequent flyer accounts but ATA had a good price and cost was a big concern for our friends traveling with us.  

We just returned home Sunday from Hawaii on an ATA flight.  The husband wasn't quite ready to come home and wanted me to check on the cost of staying a few days longer.  I called ATA and it would have been over $500 each (and there are 6 in our family) for the "exchange" for a flight coming home today (4/3) so we stayed with our original plans - THANK GOODNESS we did.  Our interisland flights from Lihue-Honolulu (Aloha Airlines) ceased operations on Monday and now ATA has ceased operations as of today.  

This past trip just feels like it was "meant to be".  Good luck to all who have to deal with re-arranging travel.

MissTins


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## Denise L (Apr 3, 2008)

My sisters and their families are on booked on ATA in June to HNL for a big graduation celebration...11 people.  All flights on their dates are looking like $615-1000 per person on Hawaiian, American or United, and it is soooooooo hard to coordinate 11 people to book.

What a nightmare. Not to mention I booked one of their accommodations via a TUGer and I have to try to work on that airfare first so we don't mess that up. What a disaster for everyone  !


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 3, 2008)

I have a flight on ATA for this coming Sunday.  I feel lucky that I saw this message on TUG.  I immediately rebooked on another carrier and got one of the last seats left to and from that destination.  It was about the same price as ATA, but with a connection instead of non-stop.  In a few hours when people wake up in Hawaii, there will be a mad dash to rebook flights home.  I'd say that there will be either no seats left or the rates will double.

I called Amex and the process they have implemented is to dispute the charge and we will find out the result after about 6-8 weeks.  My guess is that the $$$ are gone.


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## Luanne (Apr 3, 2008)

nygiants11991 said:


> So what airlines are left that fly from the west coast (Sacramento/San Francisco) to Hawaii???



United, and maybe American?


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## jlee2070 (Apr 3, 2008)

Hawaiian Air still flies out of SFO.  How about US Air???


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## Stefa (Apr 3, 2008)

Luanne said:


> United, and maybe American?



I know Northwest flies SFO/HNL and I think Hawaiian does also.


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## camachinist (Apr 3, 2008)

US flies out of PHX (Phoenix)

If one of the legacy airlines goes, watch out. 

We always fly UA to HI. Upgrades 

As a matter of fact, I can still buy a fare for May out of our local to LIH/HNL for about 400 bucks as of this morning (on UA). 

The trick is in how to make the legacy airlines (which have complex interline agreements to deal with issues like the AQ/TZ problems of late) sit up and bark, fare-wise. It's a fun challenge


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## Denise L (Apr 3, 2008)

camachinist said:


> The trick is in how to make the legacy airlines (which have complex interline agreements to deal with issues like the AQ/TZ problems of late) sit up and bark, fare-wise. It's a fun challenge



What can you see June 21-28, Bay Area to HNL, RT? I was seeing much higher than $400 fares.

Also looking at June 21-July 5, Bay Area to HNL, RT.  Sister has an island hop on Hawaiian to LIH already in the middle of that somewhere.


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## Steamboat Bill (Apr 3, 2008)

Wow...Aloha, now ATA....when it rains, it pours.


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## Icarus (Apr 3, 2008)

Denise L said:


> What can you see June 21-28, Bay Area to HNL, RT? I was seeing much higher than $400 fares.
> 
> Also looking at June 21-July 5, Bay Area to HNL, RT.  Sister has an island hop on Hawaiian to LIH already in the middle of that somewhere.



In May, most kids are still in school. So June and July typically have higher loads to Hawaii, and consequently, higher pricing unless you can find a very good sale.

-David


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## Icarus (Apr 3, 2008)

nygiants11991 said:


> So what airlines are left that fly from the west coast (Sacramento/San Francisco) to Hawaii???



Frankly, Aloha and ATA were minor players in the mainland to Hawaii market. All the majors and several charter companies still fly from the mainland, including the West Coast to Hawaii. UA still has the most seats to/from the islands.

-David


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## Southdown13 (Apr 3, 2008)

What a hassle!  We had flights to Oahu for New Years week out of Oakland.  So I just booked a direct flight on American for $100 more per person out of SFO.  We are lucky we have a good amount of time and I sympathize with the people who have flights soon.  I called Amex and filed a dispute charge claim.  We are keeping our fingers crossed....!!!


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## chellej (Apr 3, 2008)

We're booked on American (DFW-LAX-HNL( (HNL -SFO-DFW) in May and the fares have gone up about $80 in the last few days.

I almost booked on ATA but found the AA fares nand am so glad.  I feel so bad for the folks who get stuck.  Not everyone has the ability to add some of these big fare increases to their vacation costs.


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## Phill12 (Apr 3, 2008)

chellej said:


> We're booked on American (DFW-LAX-HNL( (HNL -SFO-DFW) in May and the fares have gone up about $80 in the last few days.
> 
> I almost booked on ATA but found the AA fares nand am so glad.  I feel so bad for the folks who get stuck.  Not everyone has the ability to add some of these big fare increases to their vacation costs.




 This trip is so important to our daughter for her 21th birthday and graduation present that after Aloha we did get booked on ATA .

 I'm out about $3500 and no trip. Visa wrote this up for me today and also has my Aloha write-up. Really wonder if we will see any of this money!

 We have to cancel our trip now for sure because we used all our travel funds on these air tickets to no-where!

 What really gets me is the charge for the ATA went through last night.

 It is a shame that I hear all this on Tug and travel agency's say nothing.:annoyed:


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## tmartin1 (Apr 3, 2008)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> This trip is so important to our daughter for her 21th birthday and graduation present that after Aloha we did get booked on ATA .
> 
> I'm out about $3500 and no trip. Visa wrote this up for me today and also has my Aloha write-up. Really wonder if we will see any of this money!
> 
> ...




I am so sorry. 

This has been a nightmare for us too, but we did rebook. I can't imagine cancelling - I'm so sorry that you had to. We look forward to our annual trip to Hawaii every year, it sounds like this was going to be a really special trip for you and your daughter.

I hope that something comes through for you and you find the means to rebook. As upset as I was about all this, once I pulled out the credit card and just booked it (at a substantially higher cost  ), I felt better. The memories will last a lifetime. I'm very tight with my money and usually have a hard time with the attitude 'it's just money', but I have to admit, it feels good right now to know that we're still getting to Hawaii (unless Hawaiian goes bankrupt). 

Theresa


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## ricoba (Apr 3, 2008)

Man this is crazy....

I guess the days of airlines going bankrupt and staying open and still flying are over.

Hopefully all of you who have ATA travel arrangements won't get too screwed around by the airlines that are left.


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## UWSurfer (Apr 3, 2008)

And I thought the 9 hour diversion to Oakland last week was bad.  

The four of us are at HHV with "tickets" to return Saturday via ATA...NOT.

My sis-in-law text message me this morning with the news about ATA, and after reading about the Aloha folks plus speaking with some here this week, I figured I'm not going to fool around.

Went on Kayak, found the cheapest direct flight is $630/pp on Continental NS to LAX.  Went to book the Saturday flight and the seats were taken before I could get my CC info keyed in.

Booked 4 of 7 remaining seats for a Friday flight (8:45p departure) for $2520. (eeessshhhh).    We did get vacation guard insurance & ATA sent us an e-mail informing us our tickets are no good, so I at least have a claim for the return flights.   I'm not sure what that will cover, but at least we have flights out with minimal impact on the remainder of the trip.  We're going to keep our unit for a Saturday checkout and use it to make lunch, dinner, shower and leave for the airport late in the afternoon.   Fyi, says their policy is to fly stranded passangers for $100 standby, but with the four of us and the 1000's of people now here, we could be standing by for a long time.

Who know what an adventure Hawaii travel could be?  

ps:  My wife just reminded me we have $800 in tickets already booked with ATA for November to Maui.


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## zinger (Apr 3, 2008)

*How to make sure you don't lose your money...*

Anyone that purchased tickets on either Aloha or ATA and are still within their 60 days of the date their cc statement was sent, should immediately send a certified letter with return receipt requested disputing the full amount.  The law by which the cc companies must abide by states that they are liable for the charges even if the company declares bankruptcy (see Regulation Z of the Fair Credit Billing Act).  Thus, if the cc tells you that you have to pursue your case with ATA or you travel agency, they are lying to you.  I had a similar experience years ago (not an airline, but a merchant), and was told that I had to stand in line to get my money from bankruptcy court.  I wrote them a letter detailing the law and within a few weeks miraculously my cc credited my account for the full amount.

My final piece of advice... be persistent and don't take no for an answer.  In case you need further information, I strongly recommend checking out 'What Every Credit Card User Needs to Know' by Howard Strong.  Great book that will pay off for those in this situation.

Good luck to all...


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## tmartin1 (Apr 3, 2008)

I have Capital One MC and have already had my charges for Aloha credited to my account (I called them on Monday). I called again this morning to dispute the ATA charges and those should post within 2 days.

The person I spoke to on the phone Monday told me that MC allows you to call in the dispute, while VISA makes you fill out a form and will not credit your account until the day of the flight. I don't know how true this all is, but right now, I LOVE my Capital One MC card.

Theresa


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## zinger (Apr 3, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> I have Capital One MC and have already had my charges for Aloha credited to my account (I called them on Monday). I called again this morning to dispute the ATA charges and those should post within 2 days.
> 
> The person I spoke to on the phone Monday told me that MC allows you to call in the dispute, while VISA makes you fill out a form and will not credit your account until the day of the flight. I don't know how true this all is, but right now, I LOVE my Capital One MC card.
> 
> Theresa



Theresa,

It does sound like Capital One is working with you.. I would however send a letter disputing these charges as well.  There's an old saying "If it's not in writing, it didn't happen".  A stamp and a few minutes is all it takes..


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## davhu1 (Apr 3, 2008)

Wow!!!  I am sorry for those who booked and now have to fight to get you money back.  I almost books 2 weeks back on ata and aloha from bwi.  It would have saved me ~$400 for the trip but decided to pay little more to fly out from dc, closer to home.


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## Phill12 (Apr 3, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> I am so sorry.
> 
> This has been a nightmare for us too, but we did rebook. I can't imagine cancelling - I'm so sorry that you had to. We look forward to our annual trip to Hawaii every year, it sounds like this was going to be a really special trip for you and your daughter.
> 
> ...




 Thanks for the nice words! I just canceled the car and the dinner cruise and the Old L. Luau. The lady that took care of this said she was set to fly out on ATA in one week for Las Vagas Vacation. Sounds strange that people in Hawaai come here for vacation.

 I will get my money back on the Laua and need to enjoy because that might be all the money I get back.  

 The one bright spot was calling II and canceling our condo at Sands of Kahana. She gave us a credit that we can pick another resort up tell April 2009. 


 We love our Ridge Tahoe resort and this was first year in long time to make a exchange and what a waste of time and money. Good thing we haven't rented our Naegle unit for July 4th week because we can pull it off Redweek and use it.

II worked with us and gave us a two bedroom back at our home resort for the May 24th week so we will just drive four hours and enjoy Lake Tahoe. This way we can still try and rent out our Naegle unit for July 4th week on RW.


 Your statement about not canceling was exactly why we did re-book but can not afford to book a third flight.

 If two go under how long before some of the larger airlines close? 

 Good luck to the rest of the Tuggers with reservations!



 UPDATE:  Our Visa with Wells Fargo did get our $1650.00 dollars back for us and as of this morning one of the tickets for $594.00 from Aloha Air has been credited back to us. I called and Wells Fargo and they said they are still working on other two tickets so now instead of losing $3500 we are down to $1000.

 After hearing Tuggers talking about their credit card companies doing nothing because tickets were bought more than 30 days and we bought ours Nov 29,2007 for a May 2008 trip.

 PHIL


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## Denise L (Apr 3, 2008)

Icarus said:


> In May, most kids are still in school. So June and July typically have higher loads to Hawaii, and consequently, higher pricing unless you can find a very good sale.
> 
> -David



Yes, I guess that they will have to pay more (soon) or even more (later), or cancel the whole thing. That could be interesting. My sister owns at HGVC so she can get her points back, I think.  Though some were 07 pts banked into 08, and the rest were 08 pts. Not sure how that works with HGVC. Oh well. They are going to figure it out somehow!


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## wmmmmm (Apr 3, 2008)

Denise L said:


> My sisters and their families are on booked on ATA in June to HNL for a big graduation celebration...11 people.  All flights on their dates are looking like $615-1000 per person on Hawaiian, American or United, and it is soooooooo hard to coordinate 11 people to book.
> 
> What a nightmare. Not to mention I booked one of their accommodations via a TUGer and I have to try to work on that airfare first so we don't mess that up. What a disaster for everyone  !


Wow.  Our situation is almost the same.  We're going in June for a big extended family vacation.  Our party is 20 and 3 were on Aloha and 15 on ATA.  We scrambled last week to re-book the Aloha tickets on ATA and this morning, well, it wasn't pretty.  In addition, instead of everyone flying out of the same airport, Oakland, half of the party is now leaving from San Jose and the other half from San Francisco.  I just hope Hawaiian Air won't "join the party"!


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## Stefa (Apr 3, 2008)

Icarus said:


> Frankly, Aloha and ATA were minor players in the mainland to Hawaii market. All the majors and several charter companies still fly from the mainland, including the West Coast to Hawaii. UA still has the most seats to/from the islands.




According to this story, only three domestic airlines flew more passangers than ATA between the mainland and the Islands.   (It sounds like that sale we've been waiting for isn't going to happen any time soon.)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/04/03/hawaii.travel.ap/index.html


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## Denise L (Apr 3, 2008)

wmmmmm said:


> Wow.  Our situation is almost the same.  We're going in June for a big extended family vacation.  Our party is 20 and 3 were on Aloha and 15 on ATA.  We scrambled last week to re-book the Aloha tickets on ATA and this morning, well, it wasn't pretty.  In addition, instead of everyone flying out of the same airport, Oakland, half of the party is now leaving from San Jose and the other half from San Francisco.  I just hope Hawaiian Air won't "join the party"!



Well, congrats on getting it all figured out for 20 people!  At least you all know to book quickly and to be decisive.  Both sisters are busy working and can't take the morning off to get their heads together on this trip, plus they have four other high school students/four other parents to deal with, too.  So I'm afraid that the "lower" fares in the $600s will be gone and then they won't be able to afford the $1000 fares  .  So they'll do a driving trip instead.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't understand how this is right.  For those that just rebooked their airfare from Aloha to ATA should be given a refund ASAP.  You can't tell me that ATA did not know it was going to go under today.  They could have easily said that those flight were full.  I just don't understand...  This is AWFUL...


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## Denise L (Apr 3, 2008)

glenn1000 said:


> What a week for travel to and from Hawaii.



Oh no, you just spent all that time and $$ on ATA full-fare tickets! Well, at least it won't be hard to get _that_ money back if it was just charged yesterday, but how are you getting home now? I can't believe ATA just sold all those tickets and then stopped flying! I'm not sure whether to post here or on the Aloha thread.... ...if anyone else declares bankruptcy and stops flying this week, how will anyone get anywhere  ?


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## wmmmmm (Apr 3, 2008)

Denise L said:


> Well, congrats on getting it all figured out for 20 people!  At least you all know to book quickly and to be decisive.  Both sisters are busy working and can't take the morning off to get their heads together on this trip, plus they have four other high school students/four other parents to deal with, too.  So I'm afraid that the "lower" fares in the $600s will be gone and then they won't be able to afford the $1000 fares  .  So they'll do a driving trip instead.


Hawaiian Air was $800+ but United with a red-eye was in the mid $500 range.  But I'm betting the prices are going up.  American had prices in the $1400!


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## glenn1000 (Apr 3, 2008)

Denise L said:


> Oh no, you just spent all that time and $$ on ATA full-fare tickets! Well, at least it won't be hard to get _that_ money back if it was just charged yesterday, but how are you getting home now? I can't believe ATA just sold all those tickets and then stopped flying! I'm not sure whether to post here or on the Aloha thread.... ...if anyone else declares bankruptcy and stops flying this week, how will anyone get anywhere  ?



It's funny that after all that's gone on this week I ended up rebooking through ATA (i.e. paying ATA the big bucks for these return tickets hours before they went under). Since ATA had no flight availability they ticketed us on Delta. This is what I had been told would happen except that ATA had said they would cover the expense, which did not happen. The good news is that the reservations appear to be valid.

I was on the phone with ATA because a better flight and lower fare on United had come up and I wanted to see if we were permitted to switch. While on the call the agent learned that ATA was out of business.


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## Cathyb (Apr 3, 2008)

bocabum--DaveM also recommends sending Amex a Certified Letter stating a request for refund and the reason -- in addition to the phone call.  We have done both for Aloha refund.


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## bevans (Apr 3, 2008)

My wife and I were originally booked in May for Oakland to Kona and Kona to Maui on Aloha. Our return flight was ata from Maui to Oakland. Well we first made the Aloha change to Hawaiian and now ata to US Airways. We are paying double the price and instead of two direct flights we now have to switch planes. I think if I knew that ata was also going down I would have just cancelled the whole trip and let the turmoil settle out. One thing is certain, and that is getting to Hawaii from the west coast is certainly going up in the future. This will affect tourism to Hawaii, if you spend all your money to get there many people will just opt out. Speaking for myself if I had not already scheduled everything I would! Curt


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## Phill12 (Apr 3, 2008)

bevans said:


> My wife and I were originally booked in May for Oakland to Kona and Kona to Maui on Aloha. Our return flight was ata from Maui to Oakland. Well we first made the Aloha change to Hawaiian and now ata to US Airways. We are paying double the price and instead of two direct flights we now have to switch planes. I think if I knew that ata was also going down I would have just cancelled the whole trip and let the turmoil settle out. One thing is certain, and that is getting to Hawaii from the west coast is certainly going up in the future. This will affect tourism to Hawaii, if you spend all your money to get there many people will just opt out. Speaking for myself if I had not already scheduled everything I would! Curt




 After all our plans having to be canceled today and out two different bookings,both by travel agancy's that state "I KNOW NOTHINGGG") this may be our last trip to Hawaii.

 One thing that will change now for many travelers will be booking early for good pricing. If we lose both payments for total of $3500 it will be long time before we fly again. 

 I'm mad that a week before Aloha closed I was on the Phone with them and nothing said about problems but to have ATA run our visa through last night and close and announce their closing this morning is a total scam on the ticket holders!:annoyed:


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 3, 2008)

I was extremely lucky.  I got roundtrip tickets between Honolulu and Las Vegas on US Airways for $420 really early this morning for travel starting on April 6.  I booked at about 4:30 am in this morning.

I just checked the fares for the same flight.  The rate is now $1251 for the cheapest flight.

If I don't get a refund on my original flight, I still made out like a bandit.  Obviously, what happened is that all ATA customers who were flying home this weekend needed a flight and they didn't learn of the bankrupcy until they woke up between 6-8 am.   The early bird definitely catches the worm.


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## california-bighorn (Apr 3, 2008)

*Alaska Air another option?*

I know Alaska started flights from Seattle to Hawaii late last year and I think they have flights from LAX to Hawaii. I'm hoping they pick up addition routes from the West Coast.


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## chellej (Apr 3, 2008)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> This trip is so important to our daughter for her 21th birthday and graduation present that after Aloha we did get booked on ATA .
> 
> I'm out about $3500 and no trip. Visa wrote this up for me today and also has my Aloha write-up. Really wonder if we will see any of this money!
> 
> ...



That is really awful!!! I took my DD for her 18th birthday and it is such a special memory.

That is the one really good thing about American Express - they credit your account right away.

I am really sorry you have to cancel.


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## bogey21 (Apr 3, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> It cost me an extra $1200 - but at this point, I don't care.



All I can say is WOW!

GEORGE


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## camachinist (Apr 3, 2008)

california-bighorn said:


> I know Alaska started flights from Seattle to Hawaii late last year and I think they have flights from LAX to Hawaii. I'm hoping they pick up addition routes from the West Coast.



Only am seeing codeshares on AA right now...


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 3, 2008)

zinger said:


> Anyone that purchased tickets on either Aloha or ATA and are still within their 60 days of the date their cc statement was sent, should immediately send a certified letter with return receipt requested disputing the full amount.


 
When I was talking to Marriott Rewards Visa (Chase) they said that it had to be within 90 days of the purchase date. Does that make sense?


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## camachinist (Apr 3, 2008)

Policies depend on the card issuer and be sure to ask about any special policies regarding the purchase of future services. 

Most typically allow 60 days from when the consumer would receive their written/electronic statement.


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## Denise L (Apr 4, 2008)

*It's actually working out better!*

Well, we found my sisters flights on UA for June  , and they were able to use some FF miles (3 out of 4 tix, and 2 out of 3 tix), so saved lots of money too! Amazing to see any award availability at all! They had to add a day here or shave a day off there, but they are good to go, and saving at least $1600 per family.  Not a bad deal, just very stressful to get it all figured out. Whew!  Also, my sister said that her Southwest cc said that she would be credited for the ATA flights next week, and she purchased over 6 months ago!


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## debraxh (Apr 4, 2008)

Denise L said:


> ...Also, my sister said that her Southwest cc said that she would be credited for the ATA flights next week, and she purchased over 6 months ago!



Their website said that if the ATA tickets were purchased via Southwest, that refunds would be made immediately.


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## Icarus (Apr 4, 2008)

Stefa said:


> According to this story, only three domestic airlines flew more passangers than ATA between the mainland and the Islands.   (It sounds like that sale we've been waiting for isn't going to happen any time soon.)
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/04/03/hawaii.travel.ap/index.html



Apparently ATA had about 10% of the mainland - Hawaii market. (more than I thought). The other 3 carry a lot of passengers. Many of the majors only have a couple of flights a day. Some don't serve all the islands directly.

I'm sure United is #1 in terms of capacity. AA is probably #2. Not sure who #3 is, but I'll guess that it might be Hawaiian Airlines. I'm pretty sure that CO, DL and NW only serve Honolulu. US Air also serves the market, and I noticed a US Air ticket counter in Maui list week when I went through the ticket lobby for the first time in a long time.

-David


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## SherryS (Apr 4, 2008)

NW serves Maui and the Big Island.  They have flight 804 that leaves Maui with stops in Kona and Seattle continuing to Minneapolis.  Just was on that flight in mid-March!


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## mepiccolo (Apr 4, 2008)

It's hard not to picture the ATA employees cleaning out their desks while those last tickets were sold hours before they went bankrupt.  Isn't that fraud?


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## daventrina (Apr 4, 2008)

*Resources for CA*

Check this thread for recovery resources in CA


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## geoffb (Apr 4, 2008)

mepiccolo said:


> It's hard not to picture the ATA employees cleaning out their desks while those last tickets were sold hours before they went bankrupt.  Isn't that fraud?



The front line employees would have been the last to know.


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## Barbeque (Apr 5, 2008)

california-bighorn said:


> I know Alaska started flights from Seattle to Hawaii late last year and I think they have flights from LAX to Hawaii. I'm hoping they pick up addition routes from the West Coast.




I booked LAX to OGG for August through Alaska Air a few weeks ago for abut $620 per ticket. The same flight today is $967  Yesterday it was about $ 1070.   The flight is actually on American Airlines but ticketed through Alaska.  I would like to see Alaska add flights out of Los Angeles or a nearby airport to Hawaii.  We have their mileage plan and it would be nice to be able to use companion tickets and miles for Hawaii.  They said there were no mileage seats left when we booked.


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## Cathyb (Apr 5, 2008)

Ohh my Gosh!  When is this going to end?


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## UWSurfer (Apr 5, 2008)

We made it home, arriving at 5 this morning Los Angeles time on the Continental redeye we caught last night.

The local newspapers in Honolulu belive this will hit tourism very hard this season.  Not only the hotels and resturants, but tours, rentals, activities and instruction...a huge segment of that economy.  

The paper had stories of youth groups, wrestling teams and bands all abandoned by ATA after taking 5,000, 10,000 and in one case $30,000 in reservations only to be left stranded.  In one case, an Island high school wrestling team was somewhere on the mainland and flying home when an ATA flight had a problem with the plane and landed in Las Vegas for the night.   The next morning ATA was out of business and the family of approximately 20 players had to come up with an addtional $300 a piece to get them home.    

All of this aside, we enjoyed our 12 or so days in Hawaii and all agree this is one trip we'll all remember for the rest of our lives!

Aloha....


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## Barbeque (Apr 5, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> Ohh my Gosh!  When is this going to end?


To quote my deceased father "High Profits breed ruinous competition" 
I don't know where he heard it but he said it enough I remembered it. 
If it wasnt for the fuel costs I would think it would end very soon.   Also like in my previous post they took the cost up and it has come down $ 100 already.  I believe other airlines will pick up the slack but tickets will continue to be higher until fuel goes down if it ever does.


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## Icarus (Apr 6, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> We made it home, arriving at 5 this morning Los Angeles time on the Continental redeye we caught last night.



Glad to hear you made it home. I was scheduled to fly out last Saturday night on UA on the late red-eye to SFO. They needed my seat and I collected $600 in travel vouchers and got re-booked onto the early afternoon flight to LAX on Sunday. They needed my seat on that flight, and I collected another $600 in travel vouchers and got re-booked onto the Sunday night redeye to SFO. They needed my seat on that flight, but I really had to be in the Bay Area Monday morning, so I took that flight.

I was supposed to fly home to Maui last night (Saturday) at 6:30PM on UA. They even replaced the scheduled 757 with a larger 767 to accommodate everybody, but the flight was still oversold with a long standby list. You guessed it, they needed my seat and I got another $600 in travel vouchers and now I'm scheduled on the oversold Sunday morning flight back home to Maui.

I think some of the slack will be picked up by UA, Hawaiian (if Hawaiian has or can get the equipment they need to fly more mainland routes) and the other airlines if they think they can make a profit on those flights. Fares will go up, Aloha and ATA were keeping them lower than they should have been. At least for the near future, the days of $300 airfares to Hawaii are probably over.

-David


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## Icarus (Apr 6, 2008)

I was just checking the schedule for Monday, and it looks like Hawaiian has added an extra late night flight from SFO - HNL. Leaves after 11PM. They must be flying extra sections using their existing equipment I guess. If they can do that, and they have the flight crews and can make money at it, I suppose they can continue to provide additional service, but not many people are going to like getting into Honolulu at 1:45AM and laying over until the morning if they have to connect to another island.

-David


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## Jaybee (Apr 6, 2008)

It is so sad to read all these horror stories.  I guess we should all start thinking about buying travel insurance....if we find one that covers an event such as this. Who will be able to pick up the slack?   Jean


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## UWSurfer (Apr 6, 2008)

Icarus said:


> Glad to hear you made it home. I was scheduled to fly out last Saturday night on UA on the late red-eye to SFO. They needed my seat and I collected $600 in travel vouchers and got re-booked onto the early afternoon flight to LAX on Sunday. They needed my seat on that flight, and I collected another $600 in travel vouchers and got re-booked onto the Sunday night redeye to SFO. They needed my seat on that flight, but I really had to be in the Bay Area Monday morning, so I took that flight.
> 
> I was supposed to fly home to Maui last night (Saturday) at 6:30PM on UA. They even replaced the scheduled 757 with a larger 767 to accommodate everybody, but the flight was still oversold with a long standby list. You guessed it, they needed my seat and I got another $600 in travel vouchers and now I'm scheduled on the oversold Sunday morning flight back home to Maui.
> 
> -David



WOW David, have "I" a deal for you...how'd you like to make a four for one swap?  I'll trade you my 4 round trip travel vouchers for any ATA flight for just one of your UA vouchers. :hysterical: 

I only offer as I know you fly back and forth more often than I do & ....:rofl:


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## Icarus (Apr 6, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> WOW David, have "I" a deal for you...how'd you like to make a four for one swap?  I'll trade you my 4 round trip travel vouchers for any ATA flight for just one of your UA vouchers. :hysterical:
> 
> I only offer as I know you fly back and forth more often than I do & ....:rofl:



Let me think about that one. 

This mornings flight is delayed. It was supposed to leave at 8:55AM, but when I got to the airport the board said delayed until 11AM. It's a mechanical delay. Of course I didn't get any easy updates about the delay.

-David


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## tiger1210 (Apr 6, 2008)

*ATA refunds*

I have reservations for July on ATA, but I booked with a credit card. Is the company going to let me dispute the charges? Also, should I try to rebook on another major airline first and see what they will give me? I cannot afford to book new flights without knowing if I will get back a refund or not. Advice? This is a really a bummer. If I can't go I will have to give up my Maui Ocean Club for a prime week. I wonder what will happen to that?


_
[*Since there is an on-going thread on this topic, I merged the 2 threads, to keep all the info. in one place. - DeniseM]_


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## UWSurfer (Apr 6, 2008)

American Express opened up a dispute for us on our ATA tickets.  It was just initiated a couple days ago so I don't have an outcome for you yet.  I read another tugger was given a credit for what he purchased on ATA with his Wells Fargo credit card.

That said, at this point you might want to plan as if you are not going to get that money back and book or cancel accordingly if you truely can't afford the expense of second tickets without the refund.   Remember too you may have an economic stimulus package check coming in the next several weeks which could offset this.  The stimulus is effectively taken against next year's tax refund, so if you use your refund each year for your vacation, you effectively will be using next years money.

It cost us an additional $2520 to fly the four of us home from HNL after being stranded by ATA shutting down.


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## Phill12 (Apr 6, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> American Express opened up a dispute for us on our ATA tickets.  It was just initiated a couple days ago so I don't have an outcome for you yet.  I read another tugger was given a credit for what he purchased on ATA with his Wells Fargo credit card.
> 
> That said, at this point you might want to plan as if you are not going to get that money back and book or cancel accordingly if you truely can't afford the expense of second tickets without the refund.   Remember too you may have an economic stimulus package check coming in the next several weeks which could offset this.  The stimulus is effectively taken against next year's tax refund, so if you use your refund each year for your vacation, you effectively will be using next years money.
> 
> It cost us an additional $2520 to fly the four of us home from HNL after being stranded by ATA shutting down.




 Yes we did a credit of $1650 in three days of Wells Fargo filing the report on ATA tickets to Maui,also received one of the three tickets on Aloha refund on
 4/4.  

 Our losses drop from $3500 loss to $1000 at this point.

 Get your credit card company involved today.

 We gave up because same as you we couldn't take chance because all our vacation funds were spent on Aloha and ATA Air and booking a third airline and not knowing if we would get any money back. wasn't something we could do.  

 We did cancel our Maui vacation for this year. I'm not that trusting of the airlines right now the way their falling apart. How long before one of the large ones go under?

 Get your money back and worry about vacation later. 




PHIL


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## Kona Lovers (Apr 6, 2008)

Phil,

I've been following your story closely these past few days and sympathizing all the way.

I'm so glad to see that you're making substantial progress getting your money back.  We were scheduled to go to Hawaii this summer, and I came a couple of minutes away from booking ATA flights in October, but waited, which was good, because we ended up having to cancel our vacation. There's a good possibility I would have booked Aloha for inter-island as well. 

Here's hoping the best for your last 1K.

Marty


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## Phill12 (Apr 6, 2008)

Kona Lovers said:


> Phil,
> 
> I've been following your story closely these past few days and sympathizing all the way.
> 
> ...




 Thanks Marty!   PHIL


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## taffy19 (Apr 6, 2008)

I hope so too that you'll get the rest of your money back. Our friends are also stranded with ATA and had to buy much more expensive tickets to go back home on Tuesday instead of today. Our timeshare has room for them so that is one problem less to deal with. They are flying back with Alaska Air.  

I am really sorry for you that you had to cancel your trip altogether.


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## Cathyb (Apr 7, 2008)

Phil:  Aloha refund? How did you get an Aloha refund so quick?  We have to wait 4-6 weeks with American Express to 'review' our claim and then see if we get it.  We did buy the tickets 6 months ago, maybe that is the deciding factor in the delay.


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## Phill12 (Apr 7, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> Phil:  Aloha refund? How did you get an Aloha refund so quick?  We have to wait 4-6 weeks with American Express to 'review' our claim and then see if we get it.  We did buy the tickets 6 months ago, maybe that is the deciding factor in the delay.




 I have no Idea because we bought our three Aloha tickets on Nov 29,2007 through II travel.

 I called the number on back of my credit card on 3/31/08 and they filed a report.

 I called back on 4/1/08 and told the lady "your not going to believe this but I lost money on another airlines" after making a joke of my luck she filed another report.

 On 4/3/08 I found the credit for the whole $1650 for the ATA tickets in my visa acct.

 On 4/4/08 I checked and had the cost of one ticket $596.00 in my acct.

 I know its a small amount but wish they would get my fee's back from these two travel agency's because they did nothing to help me.

 Funny part is both have sent me new vacation offers all over the world like nothing happened!  

 PHIL


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## mepiccolo (Apr 7, 2008)

Kona Lovers said:


> Phil,
> 
> I've been following your story closely these past few days and sympathizing all the way.
> 
> ...



Ditto!  My husband and I felt so bad for you.  Now we're in the same boat because we're out $1,000 (and thousands of ff miles) from Aloha's demise.  

Marty, you're a West Coast Flyer's Fan!  Husband is a fanatical Philadelphia sports fan, more often times known as an angry Philadelphia sports fan


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## zinger (Apr 7, 2008)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> I have no Idea because we bought our three Aloha tickets on Nov 29,2007 through II travel.
> 
> I called the number on back of my credit card on 3/31/08 and they filed a report.
> 
> ...



To all of you out there (me included), please note that getting the money you paid for the tickets credited to your cc can be and sometimes is only temporary.  By law, once you file a dispute with your cc, they must credit your account for the disputed amount; however, once their investigation is complete, if they find it in their favor, they can debit your account for the original amount.  If they find it in your favor, then the credit (along with any fees, penalties, finance charges) is maintained.

As I mentioned in a previous post, don't simply call and make a claim.  Write a letter disputing the charges to maintain your full rights.  Send the letter certified with return receipt requested.

The cc's are not out there to hand out money and some will refuse your dispute and argue that you have to go after the airlines in bankruptcy court.  DO NOT stand down.  If you are within the time period perscribed by the Fair Credit Billing Act, bankruptcy does not desolve the cc's from having to give you your money back for failure by the merchant to furnish you with the services promised.  Regulation Z of the Fair Credit Billing Act provides a mechanism by which the card issuer becomes subject to all claims and defenses that the consumer could assert against the merchant. This regulation goes even further and states that “if the merchant has filed for bankruptcy, the consumer need not file a claim.”

From experience I can tell you that some cc's will try and fight you (get rid of those) and some will be very cooperative (stick with them after this), but you must protect yourself by being vigilant.


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## tiger1210 (Apr 7, 2008)

I just called my Capital One - Chase Marriott Rewards card company and they were terrific. They gave me no hassle, just credited my account with the airfare I had paid with ATA for July travel. They said, "When you don't receive service for which you paid, you don't have to pay for them." I thought this was comforting to know.


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 7, 2008)

tiger1210 said:


> I just called my Capital One - Chase Marriott Rewards card company and they were terrific. They gave me no hassle, just credited my account with the airfare I had paid with ATA for July travel. They said, "When you don't receive service for which you paid, you don't have to pay for them." I thought this was comforting to know.


 
And yet when I called Chase (Marriott Rewards Visa) they said that I had to file a dispute. I have already sent them back their paperwork, via certified mail.

If this is the same cc company, why is it being handled differently?


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## Dave M (Apr 7, 2008)

Capital One and Chase are not the same company. The Marriott card is administered by Chase, not by Capital One.


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 7, 2008)

Okay, since we both have a Marriott Rewards cards and they both have the same rules by Chase, why was his immediately credited and I'm having to file a dispute?  Maybe Tiger1210 initiated their request within 30 days, whereas I did mine less than 90 days.  I guess I'll have to call Chase and find out what's going on...


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## Dave M (Apr 7, 2008)

It's not clear whether Tiger1210 has two separate cards and, if so, which one he called about. That, as well as the timing, could easily explain the different treatment.

In either case, you should both receive a temporary credit almost immediately, to be followed with that credit becoming permanent if the bank approves your dispute claim.


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## tiger1210 (Apr 7, 2008)

Hey guys, now I don't know. I have a Marriott Rewards card through Chase and I called this morning - 4/7. They knew exactly what was happening. I had e-tickets. They just asked for the date I was booked - July6, saw the charges on the card and offered the credit, effective midnight tonight.   Oh, you have to talk with the dispute department, not regular customer service.


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 7, 2008)

I just talked to the dispute department and they confirmed the charges have been credited as of last night. On Thursday I had filled out their dispute forms and appended it with my e-ticket info from Aloha and set it to them via fax (I also set it by certified mail). Apparently that was sufficient information for them to go ahead with the credit. They still have to present this to Aloha's bank, but it's my understanding that even if they refuse, I am not at risk. The key thing here to talk to the *Dispute Department*.


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## Phill12 (Apr 10, 2008)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> I have no Idea because we bought our three Aloha tickets on Nov 29,2007 through II travel.
> 
> I called the number on back of my credit card on 3/31/08 and they filed a report.
> 
> ...




  After reading another Tugger saying the bank could just take the money back I was getting a little concern so I called Wells Fargo and asked!  

 I was told no, that once then gave it back it was off my acct. 

 I then asked about the last two Aloha tickets which total a little more than the $1000 I posted,it was $596.30 a ticket so I was still out $1192.60 but happy with getting back most of our loss.

 I was told the reveiw dept was going over my acct to make a decision.

 I just went on line to my bank acct and found that both ticket cost have now been return to me so sadly only loss is our Maui trip this year.  


 I hope every Tugger gets their money back from their credit card company!


 UPDATE: Now that I have all our money back I get a letter from the Wells Fargo Dispute Resolution/card services saying this is a provisional credit.

 They state that they are still investigating to see if this is valid.

  If found valid they will rebill our acct.

 I have no idea how long this will take. Just glad now we did cancel our trip in May to Maui. 
 All we needed to do was pay some other airline when we might be paying ATA and Aloha even though we get no trip with them.


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## Kona Lovers (Apr 13, 2008)

Great news about the last 1K, Phil. It should turn out in your favor. 

Now we can commiserate on just being out our Maui vacations this year. 

Marty


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## Phill12 (Apr 13, 2008)

Kona Lovers said:


> Great news about the last 1K, Phil. It should turn out in your favor.
> 
> Now we can commiserate on just being out our Maui vacations this year.
> 
> Marty




 Good Morning Marty!

 What scares me is the fact the agent I,m talking with tells me once its in my acct that is it and next day I get letter telling me this is only a provisional refund.

 You never no who to listen to anymore.

 I 'm still not sure what Wells Fargo Dispute Dept means if chargers are valid or not. 


 Seems like away for them to get out of losing money and if so they should just do it and not string us along. I have no idea how long this will take. 

 PHIL


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## Kona Lovers (Apr 13, 2008)

Phil, 

I understand that exactly.  We had to dispute a couple of items from one of our vacations in Hawaii, and received the conditional credits, then got a split decision on them.  On one, they took the merchant's word over ours, and we ended up eating that.   Fortunately on the other, we got a permanent credit.   Knowing it can so easily go both ways is surely unsettling.  

Still hoping for the best for you.

Marty


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## GaryDouglas (Apr 18, 2008)

*Not out of the woods yet...*

Yesterday, I recieved a letter from Chase Cardmember Service saying "We resolved this dispute and issued a credit to your account for the amount of each charge... If the merchant's bank sends us evidence that the charges are valid, we may rebill your account and notifiy you our our resolution."

I would think it would be hard to give evidence that the charges are valid.

I take solice in Westin5Star's comments on this subject...


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## UWSurfer (May 28, 2008)

*UPDATE: ATA tick's refunded by AMEX*



UWSurfer said:


> American Express opened up a dispute for us on our ATA tickets.  It was just initiated a couple days ago so I don't have an outcome for you yet.  I read another tugger was given a credit for what he purchased on ATA with his Wells Fargo credit card.
> 
> It cost us an additional $2520 to fly the four of us home from HNL after being stranded by ATA shutting down.



I just was on-line checking my AMEX account and in the recent activity section, they refunded the monies we paid to ATA for our spring break trip and what we paid for our upcoming trip to Maui in November via ATA.

Combined this came to a little more than we paid for the one-way flight home after the shut down.  So at the end of the day the spring break trip cost us an additional $171 per person, and the Maui trip will cost us about $200 more per ticket. 

That sure beats the heck out of paying for everything twice!!!   I'm relieved!


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## tmartin1 (May 28, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> I just was on-line checking my AMEX account and in the recent activity section, they refunded the monies we paid to ATA for our spring break trip and what we paid for our upcoming trip to Maui in November via ATA.
> 
> Combined this came to a little more than we paid for the one-way flight home after the shut down.  So at the end of the day the spring break trip cost us an additional $171 per person, and the Maui trip will cost us about $200 more per ticket.
> 
> That sure beats the heck out of paying for everything twice!!!   I'm relieved!



That's great to hear! We got our refunds right away and I hated reading all these threads with people having problems with their credit card companies.
I have to admit, I'm still nervous about our summer Hawaii trip. I keep waiting for something to happen. The whole Aloha/ATA fiasco really ruined my pre-trip planning fun.

I won't fullly relax until Sunday, June 15, when I'm sitting on the beach with a mai tai in my hand.

Theresa


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## wmmmmm (May 28, 2008)

American Express must have made a batch decision because they just credited my account also.  I still think I over-paid my Hawaiian Air tickets (>$800 for SJC-HNL) but at least we have tickets and it's now T minus 19 days and counting!


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## glenn1000 (May 29, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> I just was on-line checking my AMEX account and in the recent activity section, they refunded the monies we paid to ATA for our spring break trip and what we paid for our upcoming trip to Maui in November via ATA.
> 
> That sure beats the heck out of paying for everything twice!!!   I'm relieved!



We just got an Am Ex credit as well for our ATA spring break nightmare. Seemed to take awhile but glad the refund came through!


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## UWSurfer (May 29, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> I just was on-line checking my AMEX account and in the recent activity section, they refunded the monies we paid to ATA for our spring break trip and what we paid for our upcoming trip to Maui in November via ATA.
> 
> Combined this came to a little more than we paid for the one-way flight home after the shut down.  So at the end of the day the spring break trip cost us an additional $171 per person, and the Maui trip will cost us about $200 more per ticket.
> 
> That sure beats the heck out of paying for everything twice!!!   I'm relieved!



I just looked at my snail mail statement for this past month and they note the amount credited at the top of the statement as "under investigation", meaning they could take it back.  The ATA website says they are closing down the business, so effectively there won't be anyone to talk to other than the lawyers...but concievably I could see AMEX taking back the spring break airfare as we flew 3 of the 4 legs on it before ATA shut down.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and thinking good thoughts.


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## mrmarty91 (May 29, 2008)

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but after reading these posts I checked my Amex statement online and my credit came through for my Aloha Airlines tickets this past week also.


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## reddiablosv (May 29, 2008)

*Amex refunds.*

Good for you guys.  I just received notice that Amex has not credited me my money back on my ATA tickets to Hilo.   I purchased the tickets thru Orbitz.  I have had to call Amex to reopen the dispute.  Amex says they will be sending me an avidavit to sign.  They claim they sent me one earlier... If they did I never saw it!!  Ben


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## UWSurfer (Jun 1, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> I just looked at my snail mail statement for this past month and they note the amount credited at the top of the statement as "under investigation", meaning they could take it back.  The ATA website says they are closing down the business, so effectively there won't be anyone to talk to other than the lawyers...but concievably I could see AMEX taking back the spring break airfare as we flew 3 of the 4 legs on it before ATA shut down.
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed and thinking good thoughts.



Following up here...AMEX sent me letters today saying the disputes I filed were all decided in my favor and my account credited.   So it would appear to be the end of it. 

I did have to sign affidavits earlier which AMEX did send about a month or so earlier, which someone in another post mentioned.


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## UWSurfer (Jul 24, 2008)

I promised I would report back if/when the VacationGuard claim on this trip was resolved.    It was settled last week and unfortunately many of the things I had initially thought were covered, were not.

I read from the front page of the Vacation Guard coverage that points used for a stay (HGVC) would be returned due to trip delay.   Well, it turns out if you read very closely, the benefit for trip delay ONLY covers out of pocket expenditures toward food and lodging, up to $200 due to an airline delay of 6 hours or more.  (That has since been changed to 12 hours or more).  As the airline provided some food vouchers and put us up in an airport hotel in Honolulu, our out of pocket expenses at the airport totaled about $50.

Other parts of the coverage deals with lost points, but not due to airline delays.  As such, we were only able to provide credit card recepits for $41 of out of pocket and after attempting to locate and get duplicate cash register receipts for these, the claims people for Vacation Guard accepted the credit card billing summary with much explanation and settled for the $41.

We are disappointed...but can't fault the insurance as it is very clearly stated what is and isn't covered and under what circumstances.  It's very restrictive and you have to follow their rules to the letter.   Still, for the catestrophic things that they do cover, we still feel it's worth having the coverage.  

So this is now over.  We ended up loosing a night at each end of our two week trip and spent approximately $900 additional in airfare once the math is complete, factoring out the refunds by the credit card company for the ATA tickets.   I'm certain this wasn't worth the hassle for $41, but it was made more complicated because we couldn't get documentation from the airline which is out of business and I didn't have the original cash register receipts.

That hassle aside, it was a good trip and certainly one we'll remember for the rest of our lives.  

Next trip, Maui in November flying n/s on American.


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