# DVC or Wyndham?



## jjhiscutt1979 (Jun 20, 2013)

We are looking both at DVC or Wyndham, but we are leaning towards Wyndham based on costs.  We would like to go down to the Disney resorts once every three or four years.  Do Wyndham points transfer easily to the Disney resorts?  Does anyone have any experience in trading Wyndham points for a Disney resort?  How many points did you have to use?  Thanks!


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## lisa1001 (Jun 20, 2013)

Why not both.

We typically go every 2 to 3 years.  Now that DVC trades in RCI I can't trade in, but I own 25 DVC points and bank and borrow my points to get in the DVC resorts when I want.  I usually need additional points, so  I rent from the folks on the disboards and they transfer points to my account and this way I have control and can book, cancel rebook within the DVC parameters.  If I can't use the points I rent them to others.

I don't have the upfront costs of owning a full DVC membership, but I get all the discounts extended to DVC members (there aren't many).

This year we will be going to Aulani.  We are also going to the Big Island and will be staying at a Wyndham resort there


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## pnkrockprincess (Jun 20, 2013)

I just made this same comparison, except I already own DVC

I would say if your heart is set on staying at a DVC resort, you need to buy at least a small DVC contract.  From what I've gathered, it's pretty hard to trade into DVC using Wyndham points, via RCI.  Not impossible, but tough.  

But many, many people are very happy at Wyndham Bonnet Creek which is ON Disney property.  And I just recently bought a Wyndham resale to do just this.  

This was my math:  A one bedroom in mid May (when we usually travel) at Bay Lake Towers (where we own, also lowest MF in the system)  is 275 DVC points.

275 points X $4.50 MF = $1237.50  

A one bedroom presidential at Wyndham Bonnet Creek for the same time frame is 112,000 Wyndham points.

112 X $5.50 (per thousand) MF = $616.00 

So the week costs half as much in just MF.  (Someone correct me if I've figured my MF for Wyndham incorrectly, I'm new at this!)

Now, that doesn't factor in purchase price.  

I paid $100 a point for my DVC points, so if you factor that over 10 years, It's $10/point per year, which brings the real cost up to $3737.00 

I paid $1700 (total) for my 746,000 Wyndham contract.  So the buy in per point is almost incalculably small over ten years, so let's just make it one year.  One spread over one year, the cost per point is $2.30 per thousand.  So the real cost the first year is $873.60.  

$3,737 vs $873.60

Huge difference.  And the only things you're really giving up are Disney Transportation, key to the world card for room charging and Disney theming at the resort.  If you can live without them, you can have lovely disney vacations for many many years fairly cheaply.


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## timeos2 (Jun 20, 2013)

As you can see from the well done calculations above there is no question Wyndham is the far better value. And yes, you can trade into DVC occasionally.


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## paxsarah (Jun 20, 2013)

I found it fairly easy to trade into DVC with Wyndham points, and hope to do so again next year, but I liken it to using Hotwire or Priceline for hotel stays - you may get a good deal, but you have to be flexible and able to let go of the specifics. I think an ongoing search is probably pretty essential and I suspect that an exchange during popular holiday periods or other in-demand DVC times would be difficult or impossible. I'm sure things get more difficult if you need one particular resort or one particular week. But for our exchange last year, we put in for a range of about 3-4 weeks in late May-early June, specifying a 2BR and excluding OKW and SSR. We matched to BCV and it was a lovely stay. We've also stayed at BC and it is extremely convenient and very nice.


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## ScubaKat (Jun 20, 2013)

We have traded into DVC three years in a row now with our Wyndham points.. The points we got for free from Tuggers in the bargain deals were less than $5/point for MF...  

We traded in twice for 1BR AKV Savannah view for 77k which costs us $385 + $199 exchange fee = $584 for the week.  We also traded into a 2BR BCV last year.  Our schedule is wide open and I like going in March or November/December so that may make a difference since we are not competing for summer or higher demand weeks.  This year we were matched with a 2BR BLT in October!  I can't wait!


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## JimMIA (Jun 20, 2013)

I did a similar analysis to Pnkrockprincess a couple of years ago.  We had just purchased Wyndham and already owned DVC.  

And to make matters even easier, I had booked a split stay -- a couple of weekdays (Sun-Mon) at DVC's Old Key West (our home and favorite resort) followed by three weekdays (Tues, Wed, Thurs) at WBC.  Perfect comparison -- same week, same size unit.

For the uninitiated, understand that OKW has the lowest points cost of any DVC resort -- 40% or more lower than most DVC resorts -- so this is a low-end DVC example.

Counting my acquisition costs for my OKW points (purchased resale) plus MFs, the OKW per-point cost was about $7 per point.  My Wyndham cost (Smoky Mountains, also purchased resale), including both acquisition cost and MFs, was about $4.48 per 1,000 points.

The OKW one-bedroom was 27 points per night. 27 X $7 = *$189 per night*.

The WBC one-bedroom was 15,000 points.  15 X $4.48 = *$67.20 per night. * 

_(Note:  for this time period, 15K points per night was the normal rate.  We caught a fluky break and actually only paid 9K ($40.32 per night), but this comparison uses the normal price)_


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 20, 2013)

And I just got my final check (for my first rental) for renting my DVC points thru David's - my guests check in today. $5.50 for each point used today - about what my MFs were for those banked points. Had gotten the first half of the payment a couple of months ago.

And I really like staying onsite at DVC - I admit; I am just too cheap to do it.


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## Lisa P (Jun 20, 2013)

jjhiscutt1979, *if* you had said you were looking at visiting DVC resorts at least _every other year_ (rarely going 3 years between trips)... if you're limited to school break schedules... if you'll usually need a 2BR over a prime holiday week... if you strongly prefer particular resorts (smaller ones)... if you doubt you'd use the points for full week stays... if you really want the onsite perks (DME airport transfers, extra hours at the parks, resort package delivery)..., *then* I'd say you might want to buy DVC (resale?), if you can afford it, at your preferred home resort, banking and borrowing for those DVC stays - even for the higher cost.  However, if you are able to be a little more flexible than all that, you'd probably do just fine with the Wyndham points.

There are no assurances that Wyndham will always be able to trade into DVC.  Timeshares do switch exchange companies and exchange policies.  Prime holiday weeks in 2BRs are hard to come by at any DVC resort.  Banking and borrowing is not adequate for traveling every 3*-4* years so you could have to rent some out or waste/lose them.  We like to visit Florida a couple times each year - it's only a 10-14 hr drive for us, to most of the state.  :whoopie:  With only college schedules (and not elementary schools) to work around, it's been pretty simple to exchange our timeshares into DVC, including using our Wyndham points in RCI to do it.  We like to add a couple days at Wyndham Bonnet Creek either before or after, to extend our vacation.  We've also done this with a few days in Daytona at the end of a trip, or a few days on a SC beach before coming home, if it's not prime summertime (all booked up).

The number of points you'd need will depend on which resorts you'll want, for how long and in what unit sizes.  Our next (non-prime time) DVC exchange cost us 126K Wyndham points per 2BR week, plus RCI fee and DVC resort fee.  A 1BR exchange would have been 77K Wyn pts, same fees.  More desirable weeks have been seen for 165K pts/2BR and 105K pts/1BR - again, same fees.  a 2BR 7-night reservation at Wyndham Bonnet Creek is 112K-224K/2BR Deluxe and 84K-166K/1BR Deluxe.  I think the Deluxe rooms are very nice and the Presidential are even nicer but cost more points.  You may want to look at the DVC points charts to see how many points you'd need for member stays.  HTH!


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## webkrawlerr (Jun 20, 2013)

Technically, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is NOT on Disney property.

The person that bought that particular piece of land did so a few years
before Disney bought what they did.

It dumps out onto Disney property and one could say it's
nearly surrounded by Disney property, but, its not on
Disney property.


http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html


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## TeleiosMan (Jun 21, 2013)

Lisa P wrote
jjhiscutt1979, if you had said you were looking at visiting DVC resorts at least every other year (rarely going 3 years between trips)... 

i might go once every 3 or 4 years


if you're limited to school break schedules... 

I would go in spring break or in summer


if you'll usually need a 2BR over a prime holiday week...

I will need a 2br probably


 if you strongly prefer particular resorts (smaller ones)... 

I don't know what this means


if you doubt you'd use the points for full week stays...

I would do a few days not full week


 if you really want the onsite perks (DME airport transfers, extra hours at the parks, resort package delivery)...

i don't care about this

Ok so if you were in my situation, would you buy? And i can rent the points like someone wrote some David site. I can make more than my fees which is good. Maybe I should get 150 points.


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2013)

TeleiosMan said:


> Lisa P wrote
> jjhiscutt1979, if you had said you were looking at visiting DVC resorts at least every other year (rarely going 3 years between trips)...
> 
> i might go once every 3 or 4 years
> ...



150 points is a good starting point.  Maybe you could get away with 100 points and bank & borrow for an every 3 year trip.  

As a DVC owner you always have the option of renting 25 points a year directly from DVC for $15 a point to make up for any shortage you have.  I like this perk cause a few times I've been a point or two short and nobody wants to do a small points transfer because DVC restricts you to once a year.


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2013)

webkrawlerr said:


> Technically, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is NOT on Disney property.
> 
> The person that bought that particular piece of land did so a few years
> before Disney bought what they did.
> ...



Details, details.  
The experience is almost the same though, especially if you are driving.
Actually since they have a lazy river and none of the Disney resorts do, pool days can be better at BC.


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> And I just got my final check (for my first rental) for renting my DVC points thru David's - my guests check in today. $5.50 for each point used today - about what my MFs were for those banked points. Had gotten the first half of the payment a couple of months ago.
> 
> And I really like staying onsite at DVC - I admit; I am just too cheap to do it.



$5.50 a point?  Huh?  
Did you do a last minute rental?  
Daddio was offering $11 a point to owners.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 21, 2013)

chriskre said:


> $5.50 a point?  Huh?
> Did you do a last minute rental?
> Daddio was offering $11 a point to owners.



I got the first half several months ago ... the first $5.50 per point. This was the money payable to me on the checkin date (the 2nd half).

Always nice to see that email from the electronic payment people saying "MONEY RECEIVED".....


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I got the first half several months ago ... the first $5.50 per point. This was the money payable to me on the checkin date (the 2nd half).
> 
> Always nice to see that email from the electronic payment people saying "MONEY RECEIVED".....



Oh okay.  That's better.


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## JimMIA (Jun 21, 2013)

TeleiosMan said:


> i might go once every 3 or 4 years
> 
> I would do a few days not full week


With these assumptions, I would not even consider purchasing DVC.  Why pay a large buy-in and obligate yourself to MFs for 30-50 years for something you are going to only use for a few days every 3-4 years?  Makes no sense to me.

You would be way ahead of the game either exchanging into DVC via Wyndham/RCI or renting from a DVC owner for $11-12 per point.

The option to rent out unneeded DVC points, IMHO, is vastly overrated.  First of all, Disney could either eliminate that option or make it much more difficult at some point in the future.  Secondly, it's a hassle!  And all of that to make literally dozens of dollars a year? 

No thanks.  Seems like a fool's bet to me.


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## lizap (Jun 21, 2013)

I have to agree with this.  Relative to some of the other top TSs, DVC is hard to justify.  The upfront cost is very high, and DVC properties are primarily in Orlando, plus some of the leaseholds expire not too far in the future.  I seriously looked at DVC, but decided it wasn't worth it for now (maybe in the future).




JimMIA said:


> With these assumptions, I would not even consider purchasing DVC.  Why pay a large buy-in and obligate yourself to MFs for 30-50 years for something you are going to only use for a few days every 3-4 years?  Makes no sense to me.
> 
> You would be way ahead of the game either exchanging into DVC via Wyndham/RCI or renting from a DVC owner for $11-12 per point.
> 
> ...


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## GeraldineT (Jun 21, 2013)

chriskre said:


> Details, details.
> The experience is almost the same though, especially if you are driving.
> Actually since they have a lazy river and none of the Disney resorts do, pool days can be better at BC.



Pool days are definately better at BC.   Also in my experiences the activities are better (and more) the fact that BC has some nightlife that is not mickey centered is great.   After spending time at those parks I want to escape the kool aid drinking cult of mickey.


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## timeos2 (Jun 21, 2013)

webkrawlerr said:


> Technically, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is NOT on Disney property.
> 
> The person that bought that particular piece of land did so a few years
> before Disney bought what they did.
> ...



And what difference does any of that make? The dirt on both sides of the invisible line is the same as far as I know. Heck, some pixie dust may even blow over for all we know. 

Why some seem to feel it is so important to defend Disney property from interlopers makes no sense to me.  I know that Bonnet Creek is closer to many of the Disney property features than Disney resorts are. Who owns the land doesn't make a bit of difference to any stay if it's "on", "in" or "next to" Disney.


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## GeraldineT (Jun 21, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> And what difference does any of that make? The dirt on both sides of the invisible line is the same as far as I know. Heck, some pixie dust may even blow over for all we know.
> 
> Why some seem to feel it is so important to defend Disney property from interlopers makes no sense to me.  I know that Bonnet Creek is closer to many of the Disney property features than Disney resorts are. Who owns the land doesn't make a bit of difference to any stay if it's "on", "in" or "next to" Disney.



I guess some feel the need to justify their purchases.   We have friends that will only stay "*on disney*"  Last vacation they shoved 5 people into a value resort room and spent crazy amounts of money on food but they stayed "*on disney*" so that makes it better.  

I have found that you cannot argue with those that have drank the kool-aid


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## JimMIA (Jun 21, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> And what difference does any of that make?


Well, that cuts both ways.  Some make a big point about WBC being "inside the gates,"  or that it is closer to the theme parks than any Disney Value and most mods...both of which are true.

To me, the difference is the benefits you get staying _in a Disney resort_ -- DME for those flying in, Extra Mickey Hours, Disney transportation from your resort, etc.  Those are tangible benefits which do add value for some families.

To be perfectly honest, though, none of those things matter a bit to our family because we don't use them, even when we stay at DVC resorts.

I DO slightly prefer Disney's Old Key West to WBC because I like the much more spacious one-bedrooms and I like the overall ambiance of OKW better.  

But not enough to spend 3X!  And certainly not enough to give up 80-90 Wyndham resort options plus full RCI membership.  

Anyone purchasing DVC should understand just how limited it really is.


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## jjmanthei05 (Jun 21, 2013)

GeraldineT said:


> I guess some feel the need to justify their purchases.   We have friends that will only stay "*on disney*"  Last vacation they shoved 5 people into a value resort room and spent crazy amounts of money on food but they stayed "*on disney*" so that makes it better.
> 
> I have found that you cannot argue with those that have drank the kool-aid



When we went down the end of March to BC, I looked at disney's value resorts just for fun. We would have paid about $500 more for a 7 night stay in the 2 cheapest disney rooms than for the 4 bedroom presidential we had even if we wouldn't have gotten any discounts/upgrade on the room for the 7 of us. I don't drink the Disney kool-aid so i don't get it but for some people I guess it's the way to go. 

Jason


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## chriskre (Jun 21, 2013)

GeraldineT said:


> Pool days are definately better at BC.   Also in my experiences the activities are better (and more) the fact that BC has some nightlife that is not mickey centered is great.   After spending time at those parks I want to escape the kool aid drinking cult of mickey.





I drink Kool aid lite.  
And the drinks at BC pool bars are definitely stronger.  

As much as I love my mouse's house I can't argue with a Presidential suite for a Kissimmee price.  
I love both my DVC & Wyndham points.  Best of both worlds and I usually do it on the same trip.  

Because I bought my DVC points before I knew about Wyndham I don't regret my purchase.  
When I'm not in a kool aid mode I have the option to let others get a mouse fix at half the Mickey inflated prices.  
DVC is actually the one timeshare that I do not regret having purchased.  
Well it's one of the many ones I don't regret purchasing.  I do have the TS bug ya know.  :rofl:


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## timeos2 (Jun 21, 2013)

JimMIA said:


> I DO slightly prefer Disney's Old Key West to WBC because I like the much more spacious one-bedrooms and I like the overall ambiance of OKW better.
> 
> But not enough to spend 3X!  And certainly not enough to give up 80-90 Wyndham resort options plus full RCI membership.
> 
> Anyone purchasing DVC should understand just how limited it really is.



As former DVC owners I agree that Old Key West is a step up from Bonnet Creek - but it is the only DVC that was built "normal" (in the same type of dimensions and features as  most timeshares have).  Since then they have downsized rooms, used apartment sized appliances and made other compromises that make the units more like upscale hotel rooms and less like what most people see as full condo type timeshares. 

And it is extremely limited. Once you tire of the mouse grind you discover there is nothing else.  The locations are limited, the features limited (they depend on the surrounding parks in most cases to supply the flash) even the TV channels are limited. Plus the days of free park passes are long gone so the owners of DVC still have to pay to get use of the nearby things to do. Many timeshares - especially in resort areas - have their own features incorporated in the development and no additional charge. 

DVC is an extremely costly and limited way to travel. It really only fits with those who are mouse extremely centric. It's great for them.


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## presley (Jun 21, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> even the TV channels are limited.



We love going to Disney stuff, but on our off time when we want to veg out on TV, there is no escaping the dang Disney channels and their advertising channels.  It is unbelievable to me.  I don't understand why they can't just spring for some non-disney channels.


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## Lisa P (Jun 21, 2013)

presley said:


> We love going to Disney stuff, but on our off time when we want to veg out on TV, there is no escaping the dang Disney channels and their advertising channels.


We watch very little TV, either at home or on vacation.  I enjoy seeing the theme of a Disney resort in all the details and we like to ride the boats on their waterways - pretty landscaping, romantic night lighting.  It adds to the experience for me.  My DH, OTOH, feels that a stay onsite is overshadowed with _TOO MUCH_ Disney-this and Mickey-that... and the heavy commercial marketing starts to feel money-grubbing to him.  The limited TV channels are part of this, IMO.


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## JimMIA (Jun 21, 2013)

presley said:


> We love going to Disney stuff, but on our off time when we want to veg out on TV, there is no escaping the dang Disney channels and their advertising channels.  It is unbelievable to me.  I don't understand why they can't just spring for some non-disney channels.


Simple -- their primary marketing strategy is once they get you onsite, they want to keep you onsite for EVERYTHING.  That's why they have Disney's Magical Express -- FREE from the airport -- to keep you from renting a car and therefore having options.  That's why they created the Disney Dining Plan -- to keep you from going offsite to eat.  That's why they have Disney transportation that only takes you to Disney venues.  In fact, that is also why the core of WDW is surrounded by hundreds of square miles of Disney property -- to keep you away from all outside influences.  The strategy is to keep you "inside the bubble" so you will never realize there is anything in Orlando but Disney.  And it's worked quite well for them.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 24, 2013)

If you're content staying off-site if things don't work out, it's tough to beat EXCHANGING to get into DVC, especially if you like the larger units.  The smaller units (Studios and to an extent the 1BR units) can be a fair value with DVC points, but there's a significant difference between the costs of staying off-site and using DVC points for a 2BR.


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## bnoble (Jun 25, 2013)

> there is no escaping the dang Disney channels and their advertising channels.


IIRC, the WDW cable system expanded significantly in the past year or two.  This is the current lineup, and it includes some channels that people used to complain about not having.  For example, not being able to watch baseball playoffs on TBS.

http://allears.net/acc/resort_tv.htm

OP, in your situation (wanting to go to WDW only every 3-4 years) I'd just rent my DVC stays from an owner.  With such infrequent visits, your payoff horizon as an owner is too long for my liking.  You *could* buy some other resort system and hope to trade in---many of us do---but I would not do that unless you *also* want to stay in some of the resorts in that system in the "off years".


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## MichaelColey (Jun 26, 2013)

You have to give Disney credit for cross-promotion!

On our last DVC stay (at BLT), we went down to the Community Hall to borrow some DVDs, and they had probably 200 to choose from.  ALL of them were Disney DVDs.

Compare that to our stay at Marriott's Newport Coast Villa, where their DVD loaner selection was pitiful.  No recent Disney movies.  Very few recent movies at all.  Most were movies that were 20-60 years old, many I didn't even recognize, and most weren't kid-appropriate.

We actually enjoyed the Disney-only selection at BLT, and borrowed several classics that the kids hadn't seen yet, and even a couple grown-up movies.


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## webkrawlerr (Jun 28, 2013)

I definitely apologize if I ruffled any feathers about mentioning that
Bonnet Creek was not on Disney property.

I own at Bonnet Creek and when I bought it the sale was advertised
being on Disney property. But, I noticed the lack of Disney themes
on that part of their "property" and decided to dig and see exactly
how Wyndham found a way to build on Disney property.

Then I found out if wasn't really on Disney property.

People expect certain "things" and "behaviors" when on Disney
property.  My wife stayed at Disney every summer growing up
and she is the one that started asking why the experience at
WBC didn't seem like Disney compare to other parts of Disney.

Just wanted to clarify for those that might be curious how Wyndham
got to build on Disney property. They didn't


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## MichaelColey (Jun 28, 2013)

Location-wise, WBC could be considered "on site".  It's closer than many Disney hotels and is right next to one (CBR).  It's couple miles closer than any other timeshare, I believe.

But it's not owned by Disney, so when it comes to Disney perks (and even theming) it's definitely NOT on site.

The same could be said for Swan and Dolphin.  They're Starwood hotels right in the Epcot resort area and they have a very close relationship with Disney, but they don't have all of the same perks (although they do get SOME).


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 28, 2013)

*History of Bonnet Creek*

http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html


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## ioiosotwig (Jun 29, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html



Thanks... interesting!


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