# Innseason Points owners wanted



## mdurette (Mar 25, 2011)

I am on the verge of buying a 200,000 point contract resale.  (coworker - who just wants to get rid of it).  Cost me nothing for the points - $400 for resort transfer and she is looking to split closing costs with me. Not a bad deal.

But, I have questions.
1.  We do head up to Innseasons South Mountain a couple times a year.  So we will use a week up there and then can see a couple long weekends spent at different places.  With South Mountain a part of BG now - will that resort eventually break away from the Innseason system.  This is my favorite resort and where I want to use most of the points.

2.  Maintenance fee's seem high - over $1,000.  But, she mentioned it would include RCI membership.  Ok -that helps a bit.  True even for resale?

3A.  I use II now - can someone explain how Innseasons and RCI works?  Would I have a points account with RCI since I own innseason points?  Or do I book an innseason week and then deposit with RCI and have a weeks membership?

3B.  If weeks membership - have any of you deposited your weeks with RCI?  What did you deposit and what is the "point value" of your week with RCI?

I appreciate anyone with answers - really trying to do my research.  Don't think I will get straight answers from InnSeasons if I tell them I'm going in resale.


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## e.bram (Mar 26, 2011)

Even though they are both called points, RCI and Innseason points are different animals. With RCI points you actually own(deeded) your TS and lease it to RCI for a fixed period which can be terminated. With Innseason all you own is an interest in a trust that owns all the deeded TSes. You are married to the trust and the MF you pay is some type of average on all their owned units.
If Innseason trust has a problem the whole thing could collapse.


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## clewis628 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello,

I work for InnSeason Resorts and would like to help answer some of your questions, which are very common questions by the way.

1.  The InnSeason Vacation Club will continue to own inventory at South Mountain despite it being owned and operated by Blue Green.  The majority of the Vacation Club owned inventory will be at Pollard Brook (just up the road from South Mountain), however, vacations at South Mountain will still be very possible.

2.  Yes, that’s true.  Your annual Club Fees do include your annual membership with RCI.  The Club Fees are calculated based on the number of points you own.  

3A.  InnSeason and RCI work very similarly to how you are used to working with II.  You have the option to use your Vacation Club Points through the InnSeason Vacation Club or you can opt to make exchanges through the RCI Network.  When you choose to go through RCI, you will have direct access to RCI’s website which will show you, in Vacation Club Points, how much each trip will cost.  You also have the option to book either a full week or nightly stays based on your vacation needs.  There are exchange fees which are based on the type of exchange you are doing.  Rather than own an RCI Weeks membership, you are considered an RCI Subscribing member and you use your InnSeason Vacation Club Points as currency for exchanges.  If you would like more information on this topic while you consider purchasing a Vacation Club Membership, please feel free to contact Owner Services at 866-873-2766 to speak with an Owner Service representative.

3B. As stated above, you do not receive an RCI Weeks membership – simply use your points to book the stays you desire!


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## mdurette (Mar 28, 2011)

I thank you very much for responding.
Still a bit confused on how the RCI trades will work out - would I be trading within the RCI weeks or points system????

Either way - thanks for the number - I will give them a call in the morning.


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## mdurette (Mar 29, 2011)

I called -but can't get any great information about the use of RCI.

Anyone able to assist:
Here is the example I gave them.

I have 90,000 Innseason points that I know I won't use for a particular year and I want to find an exchange for something in RCI.  How does that work?

1.  Do I have to Innseason exactly when and where I want to go and then wait for them to confirm?   Like DVC does?

2.  Do I reserve a week with my left over points and then deposit that week into RCI then I have the freedom to search with that week for the next year or two?

3.  Do I take the 90,000 points and deposit into RCI points and then have the same freedom to search for what I want.  I think this is the case - but I assume there must be some sort of conversion from Innseasons points to RCI points. Correct????


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## massvacationer (Apr 28, 2011)

*Innseason points charts ?*

Hi

Is there some place where I can look at the points charts for the various Innseasons resorts ?

I want to try to understand how many points a reservation would cost at the various resorts

And are there any other Innseason resources or specific web-sites out there?

Thanks


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## Bwolf (Apr 28, 2011)

The website is located here:

http://www.innseason.com/isr/

If you are an owner, you may login and get more information.

HTH





massvacationer said:


> Hi
> 
> Is there some place where I can look at the points charts for the various Innseasons resorts ?
> 
> ...


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## massvacationer (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks

I went onto the InnSeasons web-site and was able to find the points grids for the various resorts

It looks like a Prime week reservation costs around 150,000 points (plus or minus depending on unit size and resort)

My next question is what kind of availability is there at the various resorts for someone who owns "Trust" points.  In other word, is it possible to book prime beach and skiing time, if one is a points owners?  Or, are the good weeks all owned by fixed weeks owners?

Also, what are the maint fees on a contract of about 150k points?

We live in New England, so the InnSeasons resorts are attractive to us.  But, I really like the flexibility of points systems - so fixed weeks (which dominate the timeshare scene here) don't appeal to much to me.  I like the Wyndham Points that we own - and we do use them in the Berkshires and Newport RI.

Dave


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## Bwolf (Apr 29, 2011)

Dave:  Pollard Brook isn't sold out.  The developer keeps building.  He also owns many unsold units.  So, my hunch is you will be able to get what you want until he sells most of what he owns and Points owners are competing against each other for the "Prime"  weeks you speak about AT THAT LOCATION.  Of course, if he keeps building, that will never happen.  

So far as the other InnSeason Resorts, getting what you want may be very difficult, as you are competing against other points owners for whatever limited availability there is.

HTH


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## massvacationer (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks, BWolf

It seems like if the developer is selling all the new weeks at Pollard Brook as "Trust Points" than there may continue to be reasonable availability for trust points owners going forward, as there will be a big enough pool of units that are owned by the trust.

Anyway, I found an auction on ebay that had 40,000 points with maintenance of $539 per year.  This seems quite expensive as a prime week costs about 150,000 points to reserve which translates to about $2,000 in maint fees to reserve a week.

I am thinking that either: maintenance fees on larger points contracts must be significantly less per point, or InnSeason Points are not a real good value. (I guess one other possibility is the ebay seller has the wrong maintenance fees listed, but it is one of the better ebay sellers, so I think they are probably correct.)

At this point, I don't know enough about InnSeason points to consider purchasing them.

I wish there were more knowledge-threads about this product on Tug.  I think the product may not be widely sold, so there is not a large enough number of experienced owners to really form an on-line presence.

Dave


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## e.bram (Apr 30, 2011)

I would also question the solvency of the Innseason Trust.


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## timeos2 (Apr 30, 2011)

massvacationer said:


> I wish there were more knowledge-threads about this product on Tug.  I think the product may not be widely sold, so there is not a large enough number of experienced owners to really form an on-line presence.
> 
> Dave



That does seem to be the case. Remember too that a small, limited access system can be / is often worse than no system at all as you end up paying a hefty system overhead that yields little or nothing back in added value. Tread very carefully when considering any system especially a small one.


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## massvacationer (Apr 30, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> That does seem to be the case. Remember too that a small, limited access system can be / is often worse than no system at all as you end up paying a hefty system overhead that yields little or nothing back in added value. Tread very carefully when considering any system especially a small one.



John, I agree 100%.  There's not enough info for me to consider buying into this system.  I would need to see evidence of good availability and the cost per night in terms of maintenance fees would have to be reasonable.  

I bet that a trust points owner has to pay a certain amount of fees to cover the trust operations and the rest is a variable amount that depends on the number of points owned.  And, I bet that the trust operations amount is quite high.  Just a guess though.


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## Bwolf (May 1, 2011)

you and e.bram and timeos2 seem to be right on target.

We bought a nice fixed week unit when that was the sales model.  No regrets really, despite paying "developer" price.  We negotiated a fairly nice price and have gotten our money's worth between exchanges and use of the unit.

The first "points" model offered to us just made me laugh.  When they offered the deal, I suggested they pay me to take the lessor value.  They didn't like that suggestion.  They wanted my extra $5,000.

As best I can tell, anything InnSeason points, especially when offered to an existing fixed-week owner as a conversion, is just a way to get more money while offering lessor value.


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## mdurette (May 1, 2011)

massvacationer said:


> Also, what are the maint fees on a contract of about 150k points?



There was a recent ebay listing I was watching and didn't buy - sort of kick myself now for it.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...XXLQIlU%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

200,000 points.  Went for $1.00.  Only cost was $400 resort transfer.
MF were $1,180.  It is my understanding that part of the MF is your membership into RCI.


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## mdurette (May 1, 2011)

I should also add in my research I did speak to an Innseason rep who was very helpful about availability.

She agreed that it would be VERY hard to obtain prime weeks at the resorts that were all sold out as weeks.  Example:  cape in the summer is not something you should count on.

I told her we would mainly be using in New Hampshire and she said that would be much better.  PB has a lot of availablity and SM would be ok with advanced planning.

I never purchased the 200,000 point contract because I simply couldn't get any info from anyone (even the innseason people) about how the points trade with RCI.  (Not how good they trade - by how TO trade).  Do you reserve a week and go into RCI weeks.  Do you give them points and go into their points system.  If so, then I assume there is some sort of InnSeason to RCI conversion?????

Anyone?

Anyone have that info???


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## e.bram (May 1, 2011)

at that price put the points in a trust, and if don't like it just let them go(Stop paying). Since the dues are paid for 2011, you will do even better than breaking even.


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## davidz.isr (May 5, 2011)

e.bram said:


> I would also question the solvency of the Innseason Trust.



As a Member of the InnSeason Vacation Club (1,200,000 points) and as an employee of InnSeason Resorts, I've been asked to help clarify misperceptions that may be out there related to the Vacation Club. 

If someone has no knowledge of how the InnSeason Vacation Club Trust works, then it's a stretch to question the solvency of the program, so I'll attempt to shed some light.

The InnSeason Vacation Club Trust holds "clear" title without any encumbrances (loans) on thousands of timeshare intervals at various InnSeason Resorts.  The Trust inventory is managed by a third party Escrow Company to oversee that all the intervals are properly recorded, are free and clear and that the points available to the developer are in balance with the inventory.  This would prevent overselling points compared to what is owned by the Trust.

Therefore, since there is no debt on the assets of the Trust and the annual fees assessed and collected cover the annual operations of the Club, then there is no questioning the solvency of the Trust.


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## davidz.isr (May 5, 2011)

mdurette said:


> I should also add in my research I did speak to an Innseason rep who was very helpful about availability.
> 
> She agreed that it would be VERY hard to obtain prime weeks at the resorts that were all sold out as weeks.  Example:  cape in the summer is not something you should count on.
> 
> ...



InnSeason Vacation Club (ISVC) members can book up to 12 months in advance for the 7 InnSeason Resort locations as long as they book for a 7 night reservation and they own enough points in a Use Year to book the stay.  So, if you want to stay at Falls at Ogunquit Resort in summer peak season, then you need to have 110,000 points available in that Use Year to book it 12 months in advance.  I personally booked 5 summer weeks at The Falls at Ogunquit Resort for July and August last fall with no problems.

If a Club Member wants to book a stay for less than 7 nights, then they can call to make those reservations 4 months or less from the arrival date.

So, if you had 200,000 points, then you can book anything in the InnSeason system that is owned by the Trust up to 12 months in advance, as long as your fees are paid for the points you are attempting to book the reservation.

In regards to Cape Cod in the summer, ISVC has a resort that is entirely owned by the Club at Harborwalk, so as long as a Club Member plans a little ahead, they can get to Cape Cod anytime in the summer.  There is availability at Surfside and Captains Quarters as well, but not as much as Harborwalk.

When exchanging with RCI or Interval International, Club Members are not depositing weeks into the exchange system.  Club Members search for availability in RCI or II, then make the reservation.  There are point values for exchanges that are used to determine how many points particular trades will cost in terms of InnSeason Vacation Club points.  The payback to the exchange companies is handled by the club administration and is never a concern to the Club Member.

I've owned many weeks of traditional timeshare over the last 22 years all over New England and now own a boatload of points with the ISVC, and I find that booking exchanges with either II or RCI is very simple, especially if done online.


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## e.bram (May 5, 2011)

My concern for the solvency of Innseason is the lack of Prime weeks in mostly seasonal resorts and high Dues(MFs). This could cause some club members to bail and result in a death spiral for the Trust. Also bailing out by deeded owners if these seasonal(8 weeks max) would also impact the trust causing an increase in member dues.


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## davidz.isr (May 6, 2011)

e.bram said:


> My concern for the solvency of Innseason is the lack of Prime weeks in mostly seasonal resorts and high Dues(MFs). This could cause some club members to bail and result in a death spiral for the Trust. Also bailing out by deeded owners if these seasonal(8 weeks max) would also impact the trust causing an increase in member dues.



I guess you have a perception that the only inventory in the Trust is off season inventory and that a high default rate of either traditional owners or Club Members will affect the solvency of the ISVC.

There is a lot of prime weeks in the Club at all of the locations from developer inventory conveyed into the Trust or weeks converted by owners.  The prime weeks have a higher point value so if a Club Member has sufficient points to book a full week, then they can book up to 12 months in advance with ease.  
The next time you visit Surfside Resort, you can PM me and we'll set up a time to sit down and I'll go over the ISVC (not a sales pitch), but to clear up any misperceptions that exist.  I'm not in sales, I'm the Purchase Relations Manager for InnSeason Resorts and assist owners with how to use our program and how to use exchange systems, RCI and II.

As far as traditional week owners defaulting or Club members defaulting causing an issue with Club solvency, you may not be aware that since all inventory is held in Trust by the Trust, if a Club Member defaults, then it's much easier to recover their Points Membership cmpared to a foreclosure proceeding that may have been required over the years for deeded timeshare owners.  So, this helps prevent the challenges that other timeshare resorts face when higher defaults put pressure on the owners who are current.  The Club can recover defaulting Points quicker to resell to a new dues paying Member to cover those Points to prevent a drop in revenues from Club Fees.

Also, you may not be aware that Gov. Patrick signed a bill that allows timeshare resort HOA's in Massachusetts an expedited process to recover timeshare property easier and cheaper than traditional foreclosures to get rid of dead beat owners who refuse to pay and refuse to sign off on a deed in lieu.


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## Bwolf (May 6, 2011)

davidz.isr said:


> The InnSeason Vacation Club Trust holds "clear" title without any encumbrances (loans) on thousands of timeshare intervals at various InnSeason Resorts.




David:  Were the intervals at Pollard Brook taken from Dennis's unsold inventory?


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## davidz.isr (May 6, 2011)

Bwolf,

I sent you a PM to answer the question in more depth, but the inventory comes from various sources, and there is a wide range of weeks (including lots of prime weeks) conveyed to the ISVC.  

David Z


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## e.bram (May 6, 2011)

davidz.isr:
Instead of using "lots" specifically tell exactly what inventory Innseson actually has, for instance weeks 26-34 2Br at Surfside in Falmouth. 

Also are the dues per point, or related to the unit converted to points?

Since you are a points owner and employee, do you or any other employees, their relatives and friends(maybe with a generous tip) have first dibs on the prime inventory? Where does that leave the average non connected member?

ps. (1)Getting the points back from a defaulting member doesn't pay dues. Who make up the loss?
(2)I have seen zillions on Innseason points for $0.01  total and not sell!


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## davidz.isr (May 6, 2011)

e.bram said:


> davidz.isr:
> Instead of using "lots" specifically tell exactly what inventory Innseson actually has, for instance weeks 26-34 2Br at Surfside in Falmouth.
> 
> Also are the dues per point, or related to the unit converted to points?
> ...




e.bram

All Club owned inventory is only booked by Club Members.  None of the inventory is available to employees, friends of employees, relatives, friends (even with a big tip).

The developer owned inventory (not club owned inventory) along with delinquent inventory and owner rentals can be made available for employees, friends of owners, relatives of employees for rentals.  

To get first dibs on the Club inventory, just purchase enough points to be VIP Diamond or Platinum to get a jump on the Gold card Club members, but to be VIP Diamond, someone has to own 400,000 points or 225,000 to be a VIP Platinum.  In order to qualify for those VIP levels, you need to buy from the Developer, resales transfers do not qualify for VIP.

The good news is that all Club Members can book 12 months in advance of their desired arrival date as long as they own enough points to book the 7 night stay. 

Your p.s.(1) was already answered in my previous post. Please re-read. (2) I think that if everyone knew how to use these points, that they'd pick up those zillions (seriously?) of points for $0.01 that you think are out there to take some great vacations for years to come.  I own 1,200,000 points in the ISVC so I think there is value in the program. 

Lastly,  I think InnSeason has wasted a lot of marketing dollars on you since you don't know how to calculate the Club Fee after doing many owner updates the last few years.  But, I'd be happy to sit with you the next time you come to Surfside and go over the Club Documents.


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## e.bram (May 7, 2011)

David may not work in the marketing dept. but he(she) is just as evasive. 
Does he get his reservations for his points from Club or developer inventory? He is an employee and says he owns points(insider connection?).
"Where's the beef"?  Instead of using "lots" specifically tell exactly what inventory Innseson actually has, for instance weeks 26-34 2Br at Surfside in Falmouth. 
Who pays the dues for defaulting members since the units don't sell or even taken for free. (except for the exorbitant $400.00 transfer fee, which makes them even harder to dispose)

ps. Even the owner updaters(salesman) admitted that not many(if any) week 26-34 had converted to points. "Where's the beef?"

In summary:If you like Dog off season weeks you will love Innseason points"


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## e.bram (May 10, 2011)

Just as I thought. At this point, if this were an owner update I would be given my freebies  ushered toward the door. Gosh I miss those freebies.


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## davidz.isr (May 12, 2011)

ebram,

I could show you the sky is blue and you would still say that it's green, but I have offered to meet and go over the Club in person and show you real time use of the exchange system using club points with RCI or II.
So, when you visit in August at Surfside, contact the front desk and ask for David Z at corporate and they will provide my toll free number or PM me anytime.

If you prefer to remain skeptical without accepting my offer, that's fine, it just reinforces that you prefer to stay uninformed.  That's okay, it's your choice.

David Z


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