# Wyndham Grand Chicago



## dgalati (Aug 20, 2019)

Great time in Chicago this weekend. I would highly recommend the Wyndham Grand Chicago.  No pressure to attend the sales pitch. Stayed in a 1 bedroom suite end unit. Very nice view of river and a city view.


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## spackler (Oct 1, 2019)

Unfortunately there is ZERO availability after Nov. 1 for some reason.


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## 55plus (Oct 1, 2019)

Other than the cost to park it's worth the points. If you have to drive to Chicago, to save money on parking, park in long term airport parking for about $10 and take the CTA into the city. Otherwise take the Amtrak or bus to Chicago, or fly. Flights to Chicago are cheap.


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## schoolmarm (Oct 1, 2019)

This property is mostly hotel (and it is a converted hotel...I stayed there years ago when it was a hotel). There are not that many units available for timeshare booking. I think just 3 or 4 floors. There are a LOT of conventions in Chicago and sports events and it is hard to get lodging downtown anyway. 

I snagged a single Tuesday night when I was returning from downstate to see Hamilton. I also was lucky enough to book 3 days starting on a Thursday for a conference in February. Small units both times. 

I think I posted a review here that listed how many timeshare units there are.

This property is on a long-term lease (20-30 years) so no deeds will be sold for it.


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## davejulien (Oct 1, 2019)

We were just at Chicago Grand and I was told they only have 42 rooms for timeshare.


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## schoolmarm (Oct 1, 2019)

davejulien said:


> We were just at Chicago Grand and I was told they only have 42 rooms for timeshare.



This is correct!  42 for timeshare and the rest are hotel.


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## jwalk03 (Oct 1, 2019)

Even though it is a limited number of units, there is still something wrong with the availability.  I find it hard to believe there is not even one single orphaned night in any month for over a year.


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## schoolmarm (Oct 2, 2019)

Believe it.  I used to live in downstate Illinois and had a horrible time getting ANY kind of downtown hotel for several state conferences that I needed to attend. 

It's only 42 units.


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## GRapuser (Oct 3, 2019)

Historically there have always been a few orphaned nights at least. It is nearly impossible, given the way that the Club Wyndham system booking requirements work, to not have ANY single nights available for the foreseeable future. These are normally only taken up within the two week window that allows booking single nights. You can look to the month of October as an example. This is either an error in the booking system, or there is some renovation or other room hold going on beginning Nov. 1 that they have not made public.


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## cbyrne1174 (Oct 3, 2019)

When rooms are close to capacity, they can be removed from inventory completely even if they aren't 100% occupied. I have seen that before at other resorts and when I called they confirmed that it was removed from the inventory.


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## jwalk03 (Oct 3, 2019)

Just look at October 2019 and see all the available inventory and then starting November 1st every single day of every single month is not available.  There is no way that is not some type of hold being placed on the inventory.  How could there possibly be 15 days in October 2019 with availability and zero days in October of 2020, when most people can't even book for October 2020 yet??


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## wilson14 (Oct 4, 2019)

jwalk03 said:


> Just look at October 2019 and see all the available inventory and then starting November 1st every single day of every single month is not available.  There is no way that is not some type of hold being placed on the inventory.  How could there possibly be 15 days in October 2019 with availability and zero days in October of 2020, when most people can't even book for October 2020 yet??



Just received this email:


Good day,

As you are a valued Wyndham Hotels & Resorts guest we would like to advise you of some news relating to the Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront. It is anticipated that Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront will become part of the Sonesta brand as the Royal Sonesta Chicago Riverfront on or about November 1, 2019. The transition is the result of a strategic business decision and is not a reflection of the performance of the hotel or our teams.

Although Wyndham Hotels & Resorts will not manage or be affiliated with the hotel, we expect Sonesta to honor commitments to our guests. You will also be eligible to receive Sonesta Travel Pass reward points for your stay, however, you will not be eligible to receive Wyndham Rewards points. We are fully committed to a smooth transition of management over to Sonesta until the transition date, at which point Wyndham will exit the property.

We thank you for your continued support of the hotel through this transition, and we look forward to servicing you soon!

Warm Regards,
Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront


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## spackler (Oct 4, 2019)

Well, crap. Really liked that location.


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## dgalati (Oct 4, 2019)

Really nice location and the views from room were great


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## erniecrews (Oct 4, 2019)

Do you think that also applies to the timeshare?


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## JohnPaul (Oct 4, 2019)

erniecrews said:


> Do you think that also applies to the timeshare?



I wouldn't think so.  Interesting parallel to a number of HGVC properties that are in Hilton Hotels.


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## Richelle (Oct 4, 2019)

erniecrews said:


> Do you think that also applies to the timeshare?



Does anyone actually own any interest in Chicago?  I have not heard of any. If no owner owns them, that means Wyndham paid for them, and they can sell their ownership to the new system. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgalati (Oct 4, 2019)

Richelle said:


> Does anyone actually own any interest in Chicago?  I have not heard of any. If no owner owns them, that means Wyndham paid for them, and they can sell their ownership to the new system.
> 
> Its all about the money!
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GRapuser (Oct 4, 2019)

The building was on a long-term lease to Wyndham, so they could not sell any ownership there. Every time I attended an owner update there (3 times I believe) they were only pushing CWA. The fact that no timeshare reservations are available after Nov. 1 implies that there will be no more opportunities to use Club Wyndham points for a stay there either. I am disappointed, especially since there are now even few Club Wyndham locations in the Midwest!


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## Jan M. (Oct 5, 2019)

The email posted isn't really clear. It mentions not being able to get Wyndham reward points so that leads me to hope it is just the hotel not the Wyndham units there. The lack of availability past the take over date could mean that Wyndham didn't keep the units they had or it could mean that during the transition they are taking everything out of availability at this time. Even though it is a lot of points to book and the parking is outrageous the resort is very popular with owners making it hard to get into. There will be a lot of disappointed owners if we are losing this resort.

In the directory it says at the bottom of the page "Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront is available under a long-term lease through 2037." It sounds like Royal Sonesta made Wyndham an offer they couldn't pass up to surrender their lease early. We were hearing some bad reports about problems at this resort within the last few months. Things like elevators not working for hours. I wonder if what we were reading wasn't done to pressure Wyndham into agreeing to give up their lease if in fact they did.

This is another presidential reserve resort so if like Glacier Canyon Wyndham is pulling another resort out of PR that should make every PR owner very alarmed. PR inventory wouldn't be part of access inventory so would have to be deeded or part of an association. Schoolmarm posted that Wyndham only has 42 units at this resort. In the directory it shows studios, one bedroom deluxe and one and two bedroom presidentials. Only a percentage of those one and two bedroom presidential units would have been PR. Wyndham could have easily bought those few owners out or offered them PR at a different resort. Just like they did with the Glacier Canyon PR owners.

If the regular inventory was all in CWA, Wyndham can easily pull that inventory out of CWA. As I posted in the thread "What Would You Pay For VIP Silver" in response to cbyrne1174's ideas about the future of timeshares.

I don't know about anyone else but if this resort is lost which would also make two resorts lost from the PR program just months before Privileges comes out, that raises a whole lot of questions with no answers.


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## Richelle (Oct 5, 2019)

It usually is, with for-profit companies. At least for the ones that want to stay in business. 


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## Richelle (Oct 5, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> I don't know about anyone else but if this resort is lost which would also make two resorts lost from the PR program just months before Privileges comes out, that raises a whole lot of questions with no answers.



I’m hoping they replace them with something else, but it is disturbing they can remove a resort from the portfolio like that. If they keep removing resorts, I suspect someone will file a lawsuit. Even if it is Wyndham owned (or leased) inventory, if they drastically change the portfolio, it won’t be close to what people paid for.  I would imagine more then a few PR owners would take issue if they removed more then a few resorts.  I know I would be mad.  It makes me second guess potentially going PR later. 



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## OutSkiing (Oct 6, 2019)

Grand Chicago is one of our favorite weekend getaways.  In fact we have a reservation in Club Wyndham Grand Chicago this coming February 2020. From the wording in the letter, it would seem they will honor this stay for us. 

Makes you wonder if they always had something like this in mind ..  not selling the property to owners gave them this flexibility.

Bob


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## dgalati (Oct 6, 2019)

Richelle said:


> I’m hoping they replace them with something else, but it is disturbing they can remove a resort from the portfolio like that. If they keep removing resorts, I suspect someone will file a lawsuit. Even if it is Wyndham owned (or leased) inventory, if they drastically change the portfolio, it won’t be close to what people paid for.  I would imagine more then a few PR owners would take issue if they removed more then a few resorts.  I know I would be mad.  It makes me second guess potentially going PR later.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


At least Midtown 45 Has been sold and deeded to owners.


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## HitchHiker71 (Oct 7, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> The email posted isn't really clear. It mentions not being able to get Wyndham reward points so that leads me to hope it is just the hotel not the Wyndham units there. The lack of availability past the take over date could mean that Wyndham didn't keep the units they had or it could mean that during the transition they are taking everything out of availability at this time. Even though it is a lot of points to book and the parking is outrageous the resort is very popular with owners making it hard to get into. There will be a lot of disappointed owners if we are losing this resort.
> 
> In the directory it says at the bottom of the page "Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront is available under a long-term lease through 2037." It sounds like Royal Sonesta made Wyndham an offer they couldn't pass up to surrender their lease early. We were hearing some bad reports about problems at this resort within the last few months. Things like elevators not working for hours. I wonder if what we were reading wasn't done to pressure Wyndham into agreeing to give up their lease if in fact they did.
> 
> ...



It doesn't really have anything to do with Royal Sonesta per se - it has to do with the REIT that actually owned the building that Wyndham Grand Chicago occupied - and the fact that this REIT is severing it's relationship with Wyndham brands.  Expect more of this moving forward, as HPT owns some 22 Wyndham branded hotels.  This was announced in August 2019, here's an article about it:

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/297544/HPT-to-sell-up-to-50-hotels-end-Wyndham-agreement

Note this article specifically mentions the Chicago location as a problem child - so not surprised to see it go first.  Sonesta has a cozy relationship with HPT - so I would expect that a chunk of the 22 remaining locations to also go to Sonesta in the coming months as HPT exits Wyndham from their locations.  I don't believe timeshares will be an exception here either, since it's about the underlying real estate.  I don't believe Wyndham sold _any _deeded inventory to any of these locations either, since they never really owned them I don't see how it would have been possible to sell a perpetual deed to something that Wyndham never developed or owned.  I will try to dig up a specific list of the 22 properties in scope here - it's somewhere out there - I just have to find it.


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## DRIless (Oct 7, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> It doesn't really have anything to do with Royal Sonesta per se -


  Nice info.


This sort of thing happens all the time in Royal Holiday Club.  THey contract on an annual basis with many timeshares and apartment hotels beyond their  Park Royal base.  That's how they have London, Paris, Rome, NYC, San Francisco, etc.  The locations in these cities changes sometimes when a contract ends for whatever reason, maybe because the location rises their price or doesn't want RHC there anymore?


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## HitchHiker71 (Oct 7, 2019)

DRIless said:


> Nice info.
> 
> 
> This sort of thing happens all the time in Royal Holiday Club.  THey contract on an annual basis with many timeshares and apartment hotels beyond their  Park Royal base.  That's how they have London, Paris, Rome, NYC, San Francisco, etc.  The locations in these cities changes sometimes when a contract ends for whatever reason, maybe because the location rises their price or doesn't want RHC there anymore?



I'd surmise it's about the bottom line profits - whatever is going to net the REIT the best deal/dollar - that's what the REIT is going to look to do.  If another bidder comes along, and the net cost of breaking even a long term lease, as was the case for the Wyndham Grand Chicago, is less than the potential profits for the new deal - the lease is going to be broken.  It's also noteworthy to point out from this article that other REITs are also looking to break their leases with Wyndham:



> Just a day earlier, RLJ Lodging Trust officials announced they are considering rebranding their portfolio of eight Wyndham properties, with RLJ President and CEO Leslie Hale saying changing flags for those properties will “unlock substantial value embedded in these hotels.”


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## HitchHiker71 (Oct 7, 2019)

I found the sites owned by HPT, here goes:









Fortunately HPT only owns a single Wyndham Grand hotel, the one in Chicago.  The other hotels in this list will inevitably also be rebranded over time, but in so far as timesharing goes, it appears the Chicago Wyndham Grand will be the only property that will negatively impact Wyndham timeshare owners.

If you would like to peruse what HPT owns, click here:  https://www.svcreit.com/portfolio/properties/default.aspx

You can click on the Brand option and easily view the properties they own by brand.


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## GRapuser (Oct 7, 2019)

From Businesswire.com

*Wyndham Agreement:* As of June 30, 2019, 22 of HPT’s hotels were operated under a management agreement with subsidiaries of Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc. (NYSE: WH), or Wyndham, requiring annual minimum returns of $28.0 million as of June 30, 2019 (approximately $7.0 million per quarter). The guaranty provided by Wyndham with respect to the management agreement was limited to $35.7 million and has been depleted since 2017. HPT's agreement with the Wyndham subsidiary provides that if the hotels' cash flows available after payment of hotel operating expenses are less than the minimum returns due to HPT and if the guaranty is depleted, to avoid default Wyndham is required to pay HPT the greater of the available hotel cash flows after payment of hotel operating expenses and 85% of the contractual minimum amount due. During the three months ended June 30, 2019, HPT realized returns under its Wyndham agreement of $6.0 million, which represents 85% of the minimum returns due for the period.
       HPT currently expects to exit its relationship with Wyndham and to rebrand or sell its 22 hotels currently managed by Wyndham.

        HPT leases 48 vacation units in one of the hotels to a subsidiary of Wyndham Destinations, Inc. (NYSE: WYND), or Destinations, which requires annual     minimum rent of $1.5 million (approximately $0.4 million per quarter). The guaranty provided by Destinations with respect to the lease is unlimited. The contractual rent due to HPT under the lease for Destinations' 48 vacation units during the three months ended June 30, 2019 was paid to HPT.

It sounds like the timeshare units are a separate lease, but based upon what we've seen, I am assuming this will be terminated as well. Wyndham is clearly under-performing in their hotel agreement.


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## OutSkiing (Oct 7, 2019)

HitchHiker and GRapuser have found a lot of good information.

It's a shame as Wyndham Chicago was such a beautiful place in such a great location.

But you have to wonder if Royal Sonesta would be able to market those 48 larger 1 bedroom / 2 bedroom presidential type units (and studios).  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that maybe they'll renew the lease with Wyndham Destinations.

Bob


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## HDiaz1 (Oct 9, 2019)

I reached out to Wyndham about this property and this is what they said:

Thank you for reaching out to Club Wyndham. We are aware that the Chicago property will no longer have a Wyndham flag, effective November 1. We are working closely with the property owner to evaluate options for a continued presence for Club Wyndham at the property. While we evaluate these options, all existing reservations will be honored, and we will continue to deliver great vacation experiences for our owners and guests. 

We understand you want more definitive answers about the future of our relationship with the property, and we are working to gain that clarity. You will be updated as soon as we know more.


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## HitchHiker71 (Oct 9, 2019)

HDiaz1 said:


> I reached out to Wyndham about this property and this is what they said:
> 
> Thank you for reaching out to Club Wyndham. We are aware that the Chicago property will no longer have a Wyndham flag, effective November 1. We are working closely with the property owner to evaluate options for a continued presence for Club Wyndham at the property. While we evaluate these options, all existing reservations will be honored, and we will continue to deliver great vacation experiences for our owners and guests.
> 
> We understand you want more definitive answers about the future of our relationship with the property, and we are working to gain that clarity. You will be updated as soon as we know more.



Typical elevator speech response.  Since the lease is being terminated effective 10/31/2019, and the building itself is not in fact owned by Wyndham, stating that all existing reservations will be honored is quite a statement to make, as ultimately the building owner and Sonesta - who is taking over the building management, makes that decision, not Wyndham.  It will be interesting to see if the elevator speech statement holds over time.


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## 55plus (Oct 9, 2019)

I'll miss it if the units go away. If you're flexible cancellation and half points reservations make for a cheap getaway. It's a nice place to go in the summer with Navy Pier, the museums, etc., all within walking distance.


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## jebloomquist (Oct 9, 2019)

55plus said:


> Other than the cost to park it's worth the points. If you have to drive to Chicago, to save money on parking, park in long term airport parking for about $10 and take the CTA into the city. Otherwise take the Amtrak or bus to Chicago, or fly. Flights to Chicago are cheap.



I usually stay at the Wyndham Grand Chicago a few times per year. I use Parkwhiz to book parking at 60 E Lake St at $26 per day. It is about 2 blocks from the Wyndham. I am disappointed to see that it might be going away.


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## erniecrews (Oct 9, 2019)

55plus said:


> I'll miss it if the units go away. If you're flexible cancellation and half points reservations make for a cheap getaway. It's a nice place to go in the summer with Navy Pier, the museums, etc., all within walking distance.




I will miss it also, I normally stay 3 to 4 times a year there for 3 days each trip


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