# Summer Bay Las Vegas HOA Election



## ry"c (Apr 25, 2008)

Attention Summer Bay Las Vegas Owners: Your ballots have been mailed for the 2008 HOA (Las Vegas Resort Owners' Association) election. The mail-in period will be from now until our Saturday June 21st , 2008 Annual Meeting for Owners that is being held at the current resort. Even if you are attending the Annual Meeting, you should vote by mail rather than wait to vote in person.

We have the largest ballot ever this year: 26 candidates, all owners, running for four positions. Ballot and biography placement are random rather than alphabetical.

Owners will receive one ballot for each interval they own. Owners may vote for up to  up to four candidates on each ballot. Owners may vote for less than four.

I have worked hard on our board on behalf of our owners over the past four years. This has included our board's collective effort that resulted in our historic exchange for our 25,000 deeded owners to a better-quality, larger, and completely renovated resort,  Summer Bay Resorts Las Vegas Desert Club, at no cost to our owners that will be rated by RCI as Gold Crown. I have also attempted to keep communications open between our owners and me regarding resort-related concerns, advocated a 100 percent non-smoking resort, promoted flexible and fee-free split weeks and several other issues to enhance the vacation experiences of our owners.

Please vote for me, James Reach.

Also cast  one of your votes for Jerry Perman. He is a retired administrative law judge and practicing attorney. He would make a good addtion to our board.

Last year we hit a record with 6,500 total ballots cast. This still means in 2007 owners collectively holding  more than 15,000 weeks did not participate.  Let us see if we can better that record this year!


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## JoeMO (Apr 25, 2008)

*Got my Vote*

I can say that James Reach has helped me and I think he would make a great Board Member.  I am a newer owner and have had a lot of questions, especially with all the changes.  James has gone out of his way to help me and I know he has the best interest of the owners in mind.  I also think he has the right ideas for the resort.

Thanks, 
Joe


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## eschjw (Apr 25, 2008)

jamesreach said:


> Please vote for me, James Reach.
> 
> Also cast  one of your votes for Jerry Perman. He is a retired administrative law judge and practicing attorney. He would make a good addtion to our board.




Hello James,

I did vote for you last year and I am excited about visiting our new Gold Crown resort for New Years. I know that a lot of hard work and lot of Harrah's money have gone into making this possible. I hope that the HOA Board continues to make wise choices in the future.

When I read Mimi's other thread about the points program, I get concerned about the resorts possible future direction. So I have a question for you, Jerry and all the other candidates: *Will you support free internet access for all Summer Bay owners at our new resort?* 

Thanks,
Joe Esch


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## anne1125 (Apr 26, 2008)

I would also like to know more about this benefit program that is on the table.  I would like to see all owners treated equally.  I have owned here for years and don't like the idea of being treated like a second class citizen.

James, you have always been on our side and we appreciate that.  I hope that hasn't changed with the new property.

Please let me know your thoughts on this benefits program.

Anne


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## Mimi (Apr 27, 2008)

James,
I will vote for you and Jerry. I appreciate your support for all owners, your stand on non-smoking, and I thank you for your communication on TUG.  I am also excited about staying in our new resort next year.


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## roadtriper (May 1, 2008)

*Re-Elect James*



jamesreach said:


> Attention Summer Bay Las Vegas Owners: Your ballots have been mailed for the 2008 HOA (Las Vegas Resort Owners' Association) election. The mail-in period will be from now until our Saturday June 21st , 2008 Annual Meeting for Owners that is being held at the current resort. Even if you are attending the Annual Meeting, you should vote by mail rather than wait to vote in person.
> 
> We have the largest ballot ever this year: 26 candidates, all owners, running for four positions. Ballot and biography placement are random rather than alphabetical.
> 
> ...



I strongly support James Reach for Re-Election. He has been a great Owner Advocate durring his past terms on the Board. and has been a big help to most if not all of us owners here on TUG.  

James, this Owner rewards Issue has me concerned!  I think the Sales folks are getting a little too creative trying to add Value to their "Points Conversion"    I feel all OWNERS at the resort should have an equal Vacation Experience.   the Idea of different levels of "Status" based on wether you are a RCI Points owner or just a Weeks owner, or have different point levels or own more weeks intervals, just stands to divide the ownership. and I can't imagine that the elected Board members (fellow owners)  would have ever thought this something we need?  I bet it's 100% Sales driven to try to entice folks to buy into RCI Points!  I have nothing against RCI Points, But... let it stand on it's own merits! if it aint selling then maybe it's priced too high?  or it's not all things to all folks.  

I'll be sending an email to the Board voicing my concerns, I suggest others do as well  lasvegasowners@summerbay.com   I am also not going to cast a ballot until I hear more on this issue from the incumbent board members and any candidates that wish to be heard. will Judge Jerry Perman provide an email contact so folks can contact him?  a couple of the candidates provided email address' and the incumbents are avail in the newsletter we just got. 
Thanks for all you do!  Hope the folks here on tug can help get you re-elected to another term !
   Bob


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## 4summerbay (May 3, 2008)

Dear Summer Bay Las Vegas Owners:

Please vote for me in our ongoing HOA election. Our move to the Las Vegas
Desert Club is critical because of the increase in values of our timeshare.
It should be done carefully with supervision from our board.

I support providing free wireless internet access throughout our new resort.
Other Gold Crown properties in Las Vegas, such as the Hilton Grand Vacations
Club, provide free wi-fi and our resort should do the same.

Before the new owners benefits program is implemented, our board should do a thorough review. Therefore I would advocate a potential freeze on
implementaiton until the the board completes its review.

Feel free to contact me at any time at jerryper@gmail.com with your comments or concerns.

Regards,

Judge Jerry Perman (retired)


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## eschjw (May 3, 2008)

4summerbay said:


> Dear Summer Bay Las Vegas Owners:
> 
> I support providing free wireless internet access throughout our new resort.
> Other Gold Crown properties in Las Vegas, such as the Hilton Grand Vacations
> ...



Welcome to the forum Judge Perman. I was impressed with your bio on the ballot and I like what you are saying. Ok, I now think that have found 2 of my 4 choices. Hopefully other board of director contenders will drop in and add to the discussion on this and other topics of interest. JE


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## roadtriper (May 3, 2008)

4summerbay said:


> Dear Summer Bay Las Vegas Owners:
> 
> Please vote for me in our ongoing HOA election. Our move to the Las Vegas
> Desert Club is critical because of the increase in values of our timeshare.
> ...



Welcome Judge Jerry!  I'm in full agreement on the free wifi!  it sounds like the Owner Rewards program is already in place!?  if Mimi's post is any indication, sounds like owners are currently getting Security Cards/badges with their "Status" level on them  i.e.  "Gold" "Silver" "Bronze" etc.  if that's True, How do we Un-Ring that Bell???     RT


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## brucecz (May 3, 2008)

James, thank you for all of the work you did and being open on Tug as much as possible on what was going on.

But because of your efforts and postings we bought a SummerBay ownership.

You certainly have  my vote. 

Bruce


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## Mimi (May 3, 2008)

eschjw said:


> Ok, I now think that have found 2 of my 4 choices. Hopefully other board of director contenders will drop in and add to the discussion on this and other topics of interest. JE



You can vote for *up to 4 canditates*.  We limited our voting choices to James Reach and Jerry Perman in order to improve their chances on all three of our ballots. :whoopie:


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## anne1125 (May 4, 2008)

Those two have our vote, too.

Thanks guys.

Anne


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## JoeMO (May 4, 2008)

Mimi, 

I am glad you mentioned that.  I didn't think of that last year and put four names down instead of the two (same two as you) I wanted.  By putting four names down we dilute the total count.  I guess we can't put the two names down twice?  

Thanks, 
Joe


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## Chula Slim (May 5, 2008)

*I am glad to see some action*

I wish to add some comments to this thread as I just recently returned from a Summer Bay revisit and my experience was unpleasant.

As we all know, the sales force will resort to high pressure to convince a deed owning member to buy points from the company, but I feel that ALL deed owning members should refrain from doing so.  Here is my reasoning.

First, the sales person informed me that the internet in my new two bed room would be free, and then when I mentioned this to the closer, after he brought up this idea of levels of membership, he informed me that the sales person was incorrect. That since I was a Silver level member, I would have to pay for the service. Now, don’t get me wrong, I have no objection to paying for the internet, but I feel that all members should pay, if anyone pays. Remember, this would be an expense for the HOA, which we would eventually have to pay for anyway. Second he tried to intimidate me saying that of the 25000 (approximately) deed owners, at least 10000 had already converted to points, and I could wind up not being able to reserve my week when I wanted it. I that point I got angry. He also said, during the sales pitch that I would not have to give up my deed. Now, I know how most point time shares work, and my research revealed that a point time share owner does NOT own the deed to the property in question, but a deed to and interest in the overall COMPANY. It is known as a warranty deed in some cases, and by other names in other companies. It can in no case be compared to an real estate deed. And sure enough, behind the closer's head, was a sign that said, "you will be given a Warranty Deed"!

I have owned in Summer Bay, when it was Ramada Vacation Suites, and like many of you, went through the turmoil of the change of owners and bankruptcy . While I was at the sales pitch, I mentioned that I had been given a copy of the CC&Rs for the HOA when I bought the timeshare, but that so many changes had crept in to the rules that I felt that I deserved a new updated copy to read and keep. You should have heard the fit that he threw. He told me that it would have to come out of Summer Bay’s budget, that the CC&Rs was a big book, and all he could do was to provide me with some excerpts. Now all of us know that that is a lie. He has to give each person he sells, a copy of a contact with summer bay, and a copy of the CC&Rs! Unless HIS CC&Rs are different that OURS?!!

I need to cut this shorter, I have a lot more to say on the subject, but I will close by saying DO NOT CONVERT!


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## janapur (May 5, 2008)

Hooray!! Another Summer Bay TUGger! Welcome Chula Slim. Can we expect to see you at the annual meeting on June 21st?

As an owner of 11 SB weeks, we DID convert to points at last years meeting. However, we thankfully rescinded. I will add that it took many threatening phone calls to get my refund. I had rescinded in person before leaving Las Vegas and even obtained a signed receipt. I am a big fan of RCI points, but prefer to buy them resale.

Anyway, I'm so glad you found your friends at TUG.

Jana


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## timeos2 (May 5, 2008)

*The usual bull about points. You are right to disbelieve*



Chula Slim said:


> Second he tried to intimidate me saying that of the 25000 (approximately) deed owners, at least 10000 had already converted to points, and I could wind up not being able to reserve my week when I wanted it. I that point I got angry. He also said, during the sales pitch that I would not have to give up my deed. Now, I know how most point time shares work, and my research revealed that a point time share owner does NOT own the deed to the property in question, but a deed to and interest in the overall COMPANY. It is known as a warranty deed in some cases, and by other names in other companies. It can in no case be compared to an real estate deed. And sure enough, behind the closer's head, was a sign that said, "you will be given a Warranty Deed"!



If this is in RCI Points, which I believe it is, you do *not* give up your deed. You are absolutely correct that if any owners get "free" internet service, all should. The "pool" of use time for points owners is from those who also buy into points and is separate from the "pool" for weeks owners so neither can steal from the other. It is not a valid argument to say if you don't buy you will lose reservation rights or chances. 



Chula Slim said:


> I have owned in Summer Bay, when it was Ramada Vacation Suites, and like many of you, went through the turmoil of the change of owners and bankruptcy . While I was at the sales pitch, I mentioned that I had been given a copy of the CC&Rs for the HOA when I bought the timeshare, but that so many changes had crept in to the rules that I felt that I deserved a new updated copy to read and keep. You should have heard the fit that he threw. He told me that it would have to come out of Summer Bay’s budget, that the CC&Rs was a big book, and all he could do was to provide me with some excerpts. Now all of us know that that is a lie. He has to give each person he sells, a copy of a contact with summer bay, and a copy of the CC&Rs! Unless HIS CC&Rs are different that OURS?!!



Actually there most likely is a new Disclosure for new purchases but you (and the resort) are bound by your original, not any updates.  Usually that works to your advantage as changes tend to be owner negative.  As that is registered with the State for sales purposes and creates your ownership rights it cannot be altered after your purchase (and applies to any subsequent resale to another owner).   

The Rules and Regs can be altered at anytime by the Board. Those are usually only 10-30 pages.  It's best if they post those on the web for owners as they are fluid.


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## roadtriper (May 6, 2008)

*Welcome!*

Welcome Chula Slim!  and thanks for the input.  we're starting to get a pretty good group of Summer Bay owners here on TUG.  as an original owner of Ramada   what is your impression of the new Property?    I've never seen a copy of the CC&R's, but I'm assuming, and yes it's only an assumotion because I have no clue exactly what's in a timeshares CC&R's.  given the fact we are moving to a completely new complex and all the deeds are being exchanged. won't there be a totaly new set of CC&R's ???  or at least severly modified to reflect the new location?  and if that's the case they may not be 100% finalized yet given the fact that the exchange is in process and wont be complete till sometime later this year?  might be a good question to bring up at the annual meeting  or maybe someone here has the answer. RT


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## janapur (May 6, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> If this is in RCI Points, which I believe it is, you do *not* give up your deed. You are absolutely correct that if any owners get "free" internet service, all should. The "pool" of use time for points owners is from those who also buy into points and is separate from the "pool" for weeks owners so neither can steal from the other. It is not a valid argument to say if you don't buy you will lose reservation rights or chances.



Exactly correct. My two RCI points weeks do indeed have deeds. I am able to use my week by notifying the resort prior to the points being deposited into my points account. I can reserve any of my floating (all SB weeks are floating within four seasons) non-point weeks at two years out, which is why we decided to rescind. I like being able to secure my units for week 52 two years in advance.

Jana


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## Chula Slim (May 6, 2008)

*Contracts? we don't need no stinking Contracts!*



> Actually there most likely is a new Disclosure for new purchases but you (and the resort) are bound by your original, not any updates. Usually that works to your advantage as changes tend to be owner negative. As that is registered with the State for sales purposes and creates your ownership rights it cannot be altered after your purchase (and applies to any subsequent resale to another owner).



I am glad to see that people want to take action on these issues. I would like to clarify some of my rants in the previous post and raise some other issues.

When I bought my 2BR at our resort (notice I say OUR resort), I did so for several very important reasons. I will list them.

1. I got at least two square feet of Las Vegas-Baby!
2. I was, by contract, entitled to use other properties across the U.S. without going through RCI.
3. The purchase entitled me to discounts at Ramada hotels. ( I used this)
4. I bought the most up-scale portion of the resort-the Plaza Suites, the unit that was always used to encourage prospective buyers.
5. The location, location, location, was within walking distance to Party Ville USA! (I was young then).

I also purchased the right to use the split week and the right to a week during the holidays, without an extra charge. (It was in writing as a separate set of documents.) Hey! I was young and foolish! Heh! Heh!

Now, the reason I am saying  this, is because it pertains to my next set of points. Things went pretty well until Leisure Industries promoted their plan to rebuild the resort. A time share company makes money by 
SELLING time shares. They do not make significant profits by MANAGING time shares. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that if you sell a square foot or two to each buyer, soon, you run out of square feet! So, Leisure Industries dreamed up a method by which they could sell air time. Since they were footing the bill for the rebuild, it was logical that they should be able to sell this air time. The only problem was, that Leisure was in bad financial condition. I know, because, at the time, I looked them up on the stock exchange, and their stock was selling for about $2.00 per share, and they were the subject of many negative reports. I almost went to THAT HOA meeting, but decided that HOB would do what was best for the owners. The net result, was a combining of all of the HOAs  into one entity. Now, Summer Bay wants to sell air time to - you guessed it! - US!

Ok, backtrack. When I bought my 2BR, my contract said that I would be able to use MY unit, in MY complex, during my season. I have since, insisted that Summer Bay honor that provision of the contract, and they have. I have been able to use my unit during the holidays (I’ve had to press this one). I haven’t used the split week at all, but I’m sure its still in force, only at a higher cost. However, I have, somehow, lost my privilege of vacationing at other resorts owned by Summer Bay, unless I fork over excessive cash . It seems that some provisions of my contract are honored, and some provisions are not! Did the bankruptcy court change it? If so, how was it changed? I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed BULLSH__ ! I suspect that Summer Bay caves in to my demands because they fear a lawsuit. But if as this post says, my contract is still valid, why do I have to pay Summer Bay to use their resorts? 

In reality, I have no illusions about this. Summer Bay would not have bought the timeshare if they had had to honor all of the provisions of our original contracts.

I feel that we need full disclosure. What the hell happened, and what are our rights under our contracts! Also, how have the CC&Rs changed and why? The CLOSER (not the sales person) ranted at length about the way that Leisure Industries allowed the resort owners to run wild! As though we were granted too many privileges! He also said that my original resort, Plaza Suites, was almost broke, and that Summer Bay fixed that, and I should be grateful. A lot of c__p ! I do not trust Summer bay! If they simply came out honestly, and said we want to sell you the privilege of vacationing at our other resorts, then we would be simply talking about the cost, and trying to arrange the best deal.  

I will make every effort to attend the HOA meeting!


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## janapur (May 6, 2008)

Excellent point, Slim, regarding the use of other SB resorts. It would make sense to offer an internal exchange service. I thought I had heard that this would happen. Anyone else?


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## Mimi (May 6, 2008)

I was led to believe by the closer that points owners had access to the other SB resorts, but NOT owners of WEEKS. Does anyone else know if this is true?


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## Fern Modena (May 7, 2008)

Chula Slim (and others),
It would be great if Summer Bay allowed internal exchanges to its other properties (without use of RCI).  That said, however, Summer Bay doesn't owe you, Chula.  You had a deal with Ramada Suites, whereby you could exchange into other Ramada Suites resorts.  I know.  I used to be a Towers owner, and often went to Reno on $25. a night "bonus time."  Your deal to do this was with Ramada Suites, for the group of timeshares they owned.  That group no longer exists.  After the bankruptcy the various resorts were sold to several different companies.  Summer Bay and its resorts were not part of the original deal you contracted.  It would be great if they did such a thing, but they are under no obligation to do so.

Fern Modena.


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## Chula Slim (May 7, 2008)

I think that I may have made my point less clear than I intended. I was responding to the previous post that discussed the contract that was on file with the State of Nevada. This contract was with a non-existent or defunct corporation. As such, provisions of the contract may NOT be enforceable with Summer Bay. However, Summer Bay IS adhering to SOME provisions of that contract. This makes me wonder. Is there some arrangement with the bankruptcy court that forces Summer bay to obey parts of the contract, or is Summer Bay following the previous contracts in fear of a lawsuit? Or, is Summer bay simply being a good neighbor? This uncertainty could be easily solved  by disclosing to the time share owners, in writing, what our  rights are and what was abrogated. I really do not expect Summer Bay to cave in to demands that we should be able to use their properties. Summer bay is a company and is obligated to its investors to provide a profit. I expect Summer Bay to act in their corporation’s best interest. However it would be nice if Summer Bay were HONEST. If they simply came out and stated their ultimate intentions (in writing), I could make my decisions on that information.  

I have no quarrel with the HOA. I believe that they performed well. But, Summer bay has made me angry! If we give Summer bay undue influence upon the HOA, they could make the lives of the property owners miserable! I believe that the more timeshare owners (property) who convert to points, the more Summer bay will be able to set the rules. If anyone has documents (in writing, from Summer Bay) that refute this, I would be pleased to read them. I would be keenly interested in deeds for point owners. 

At the previous resort, I could point to a particular building, and say, “I own a piece of this property!“. If I am a point owner, can I say the same? I believe not! Be careful if you decide to convert! Read the documents carefully! If anything sounds strange, do not do it!
:annoyed:


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## roadtriper (May 7, 2008)

Chula Slim said:


> I think that I may have made my point less clear than I intended. I was responding to the previous post that discussed the contract that was on file with the State of Nevada. This contract was with a non-existent or defunct corporation. As such, provisions of the contract may NOT be enforceable with Summer Bay. However, Summer Bay IS adhering to SOME provisions of that contract. This makes me wonder. Is there some arrangement with the bankruptcy court that forces Summer bay to obey parts of the contract, or is Summer Bay following the previous contracts in fear of a lawsuit? Or, is Summer bay simply being a good neighbor? This uncertainty could be easily solved  by disclosing to the time share owners, in writing, what our  rights are and what was abrogated. I really do not expect Summer Bay to cave in to demands that we should be able to use their properties. Summer bay is a company and is obligated to its investors to provide a profit. I expect Summer Bay to act in their corporation’s best interest. However it would be nice if Summer Bay were HONEST. If they simply came out and stated their ultimate intentions (in writing), I could make my decisions on that information.
> 
> I have no quarrel with the HOA. I believe that they performed well. But, Summer bay has made me angry! If we give Summer bay undue influence upon the HOA, they could make the lives of the property owners miserable! I believe that the more timeshare owners (property) who convert to points, the more Summer bay will be able to set the rules. If anyone has documents (in writing, from Summer Bay) that refute this, I would be pleased to read them. I would be keenly interested in deeds for point owners.
> 
> ...



Slim,  I'm no expert, but I do think even the folks who convert to points will have a deed for the Summer bay Desert Club property.  all RCI points have to be tied to a certian properties interval.  a person could have 5 different timeshare intervals around the world   each worth say 20k points.  that person would have 5 deeds and 5 maint fees to pay. but would have one RCI points account with 100K points to use as they wish.  holding a deed for the Desert Club means you are an owner, pay maint fees to the home resort and are represented by the HOA.  
One of your other posts you were suspicious of Warranty Deeds.  I think we are ALL going to get a "Warranty Deed"  whether a points or weeks owner. 
a "Warranty Deed" or "Guarantee Deed" is a pretty common Real Estate Deed.  RT


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## janapur (May 7, 2008)

roadtriper said:


> Slim,  I'm no expert, but I do think even the folks who convert to points will have a deed for the Summer bay Desert Club property.  all RCI points have to be tied to a certian properties interval.  a person could have 5 different timeshare intervals around the world   each worth say 20k points.  that person would have 5 deeds and 5 maint fees to pay. but would have one RCI points account with 100K points to use as they wish.  holding a deed for the Desert Club means you are an owner, pay maint fees to the home resort and are represented by the HOA.
> One of your other posts you were suspicious of Warranty Deeds.  I think we are ALL going to get a "Warranty Deed"  whether a points or weeks owner.
> a "Warranty Deed" or "Guarantee Deed" is a pretty common Real Estate Deed.  RT



You're too modest, RT.  

Chula will be able to say that he "owns a piece" of a much better resort. Indeed, we are ALL going to get a warranty deed, _THE_ most common form of deed transfer, and safest for the owners compared to a quit claim deed.

The underlying deeds themselves will not differ. Remember that if one discontinues their RCI membership, by default they will own what they always owned- secured by their original deed.


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## timeos2 (May 7, 2008)

Mimi said:


> I was led to believe by the closer that points owners had access to the other SB resorts, but NOT owners of WEEKS. Does anyone else know if this is true?



If the other resorts are also RCI Points resorts than that would be true.


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## Mimi (May 9, 2008)

janapur said:


> The underlying deeds themselves will not differ. Remember that if one discontinues their RCI membership, by default they will own what they always owned- secured by their original deed.



I'm so glad we decided NOT to convert to points. The less I deal with RCI, the better I feel!


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