# New Key West Hyatt Resort



## Kal (Feb 10, 2018)

I attended the "Owners Update" a few days ago and will post that info on a separate thread.   In short RUN, don't walk away from even thinking about buying into the HPP.

But more importantly, what I learned during that sporting event and from other owners on their debriefing, a new Key West addition is in the works.  It will take a year to renovate and will go into the Portfolio Program.  With a 90% confidence, it's "The Marker" immediately behind Schooner Wharf Bar.  I've got images of the property but will update them in the next few days.  In the meantime Google it to check it out


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## bdh (Feb 10, 2018)

With so few HPP weeks at Sunset Harbor, I think that is wonderful that they are providing HPP buyers an Old Town location to stay at - because I see very few of the HPP buyers getting into Sunset Harbor.


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## Kal (Feb 10, 2018)

bdh said:


> With so few HPP weeks at Sunset Harbor, I think that is wonderful that they are providing HPP buyers an Old Town location to stay at - because I see very few of the HPP buyers getting into Sunset Harbor.


Right now there are 20 Sunset Harbor unit weeks in the Portfolio pool.  Out of about 2000 total unit weeks, that's in the noise range. And of the 20, one is in April, one in May and the rest are in July.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Feb 10, 2018)

Kal said:


> I attended the "Owners Update" a few days ago and will post that info on a separate thread.   In short RUN, don't walk away from even thinking about buying into the HPP.
> 
> But more importantly, what I learned during that sporting event and from other owners on their debriefing, a new Key West addition is in the works.  It will take a year to renovate and will go into the Portfolio Program.  With a 90% confidence, it's "The Marker" immediately behind Schooner Wharf Bar.  I've got images of the property but will update them in the next few days.  In the meantime Google it to check it out


Did they say how many units there would be in the new resort? Was that the BIG announcement they kept alluding to last month or is that still pending?


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## Sapper (Feb 10, 2018)

Kal, looking forward to your "sporting event" thread.

As for the possible new resort, this is good news.  If the HRC owners can continue to get into HPP units as we have been since the new website went online, its a win win.  If not, then I'm glad we have three other resorts to choose from on Key West!


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## WalnutBaron (Feb 10, 2018)

For those interested, here is a link to The Marker at Key West. Nice-looking resort!


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## Sapper (Feb 10, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> For those interested, here is a link to The Marker at Key West. Nice-looking resort!



It looks nice.  I wonder if Hyatt would keep it as is (a hotel), or if they would redevelop it into condo style units with separate living room, kitchen, and bed rooms.  Seems like an awful waste to redevelop it, and may add an interesting product (straight hotel rooms at lower point per night) to the Key West Timeshare market.

Yes, I know the lower point thing above is wishful thinking.


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## Kal (Feb 10, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Did they say how many units there would be in the new resort? Was that the BIG announcement they kept alluding to last month or is that still pending?


The resort currently has 95 hotel rooms @ 450 sq ft with one @ 750 sf.  Hyatt will have to renovate the rooms to get 2 BR?, 1 BR and studio configurations.  If the configuration is like Marriott's hotel config, that might yield maybe 50 units???

There was NO announcement but rather information accumulated from HSH owners who went to the Portfolio pitch. So right now the specific Key West location is still not confirmed by Hyatt.  Some info is from "loose lips".  The postponed Jan 29th announcement is clearly a new property.


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## Kal (Feb 10, 2018)

Sapper said:


> It looks nice.  I wonder if Hyatt would keep it as is (a hotel), or if they would redevelop it into condo style units with separate living room, kitchen, and bed rooms.  Seems like an awful waste to redevelop it, and may add an interesting product (straight hotel rooms at lower point per night) to the Key West Timeshare market.
> 
> Yes, I know the lower point thing above is wishful thinking.


Very wishful thinking!  This is a BIG dollar purchase.  I believe it shows a bit of desperation to get the HPP thing moving.  Hyatt's target is existing HRC owners as they would bring units into the Portfolio and help the supply/demand curve.  ILG dropped a boatload of money into this pitch and needs to see some ROI.


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## Sapper (Feb 10, 2018)

Kal said:


> Very wishful thinking!  This is a BIG dollar purchase.  I believe it shows a bit of desperation to get the HPP thing moving.  Hyatt's target is existing HRC owners as they would bring units into the Portfolio and help the supply/demand curve.  ILG dropped a boatload of money into this pitch and needs to see some ROI.



It might be a way they can show product differentiation.  IE, buy HPP because that is the only way you can book the new Key West property.  HRC will not be able to book it.

I am curious though, why another resort in Key West?  Supposedly they had a number of other projects on the books (Orlando, San Francisco, Park City, Blue in Miami, something in New York?).  I am sure they did some kind of market analysis, but seems odd to make another in KW.

It could be desperation, or it could be management believes HPP is going to work, and is sinking more money into it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 10, 2018)

You are at Pinon Pointe?  That was a tough presentation for us to sit through, and so was the one in San Antonio.  Pinon Pointe was our first attempt at a Hyatt presentation.  Then we the second, and not even a year later.  We must be crazy.  

Cannot think of the name of that resort.  Wild Oak Ranch?  I wouldn't do that again if they gave me twice that much dough.


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## Kal (Feb 10, 2018)

Sapper said:


> It might be a way they can show product differentiation.  IE, buy HPP because that is the only way you can book the new Key West property.  HRC will not be able to book it.
> 
> I am curious though, why another resort in Key West?  Supposedly they had a number of other projects on the books (Orlando, San Francisco, Park City, Blue in Miami, something in New York?).  I am sure they did some kind of market analysis, but seems odd to make another in KW.
> 
> It could be desperation, or it could be management believes HPP is going to work, and is sinking more money into it.


It's most likely the fastest path to rolling out a new resort.  New construction is a lengthy process.  Key West presented a situation where Hurricane damage gave a buying opportunity in the high demand Old Town.  The property is relatively new with limited permitting delays.  The HPP Trust has the cash and Old Town has the instant demand to pitch HRC units being moved to the Portfolio.


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## bdh (Feb 10, 2018)

Sapper said:


> It might be a way they can show product differentiation.  IE, buy HPP because that is the only way you can book the new Key West property.  HRC will not be able to book it.
> 
> I am curious though, why another resort in Key West?  Supposedly they had a number of other projects on the books (Orlando, San Francisco, Park City, Blue in Miami, something in New York?).  I am sure they did some kind of market analysis, but seems odd to make another in KW.
> 
> It could be desperation, or it could be management believes HPP is going to work, and is sinking more money into it.



While Hyatt has 3 TS properties in KW, only Sunset Harbor has the great Old Town location that everyone wants to stay at - so converting The Marker to TS provides the HPP crowd an Old Town location.  The down side is that if ILG acquires/converts The Marker, who would use the 2,000 week/units HPP had at Windward Pointe?

The other projects in Orlando, San Francisco, Park City, Blue in Miami, New York were Hyatt in lieu of ILG.


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## Kal (Feb 11, 2018)

I don't know how ILG determines ROI but my guess is they would want a higher value return from The Hyatt Marker.  A high equivalent MF would provide some return to the system, but a high point value would be a good way.  Since Marker hotel room rates are in the $600/night range, that could demand a 2,500 point price tag.


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## Sapper (Feb 11, 2018)

Kal,  All good points.  Thank you.  With regard to the higher points cost, they could just keep it as hotel rooms, and charge what on the face of it would be lower points, however, in reality would be higher points per square foot (vs what they would receive if there were fewer, larger units).  Then they could spin it as a "better points alternative" while at the same time raising the points cost per square foot vs re-building it with fewer larger units.

bdh, Not everyone is interested in being in old town.  Families with kids may enjoy the other two properties... like the zero entry pool at HBH.  As for the 2000 unit weeks HPP has at Windward Pointe, not my problem.  HAHA

I had figured ILG would have picked up the other properties that were in some state of progress when they picked up the HRC.  Then, what happened to all of the planned / proposed developments?  Did Hyatt keep them to make hotels, or did ILG actually pick a few up to eventually develop into HPP only properties, or are they just dead?


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## AJCts411 (Feb 13, 2018)

What's the consensus...does the value of a deeded Sunset week increase then? Trade and reselling? (Assuming a new property and the HPP "slow start").  I'm a "recently acquired week owner", I've never bothered to go to a Monday morning meeting...any reason to actually go to these things?


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## Cropman (Feb 13, 2018)

Does the value increase?  I think it depends on the week. High demand weeks will remain where they are to slightly increase. Until extreme global warming hits the northern states, there will be a tremendous appeal of having a guaranteed week in Old Town. It’s hard finding a fixed week to own at Sunset weeks 4 through 8.  However, summer months, or lesser demand weeks may see their value drop some. The ability to book shorter stays in those weeks would possibly be more appealing. 

Also, don’t forget, the ability to rent your OWNED week is possible. Renting your week in the prime season is very easy. I don’t think you can rent your reserved week in the points program. Just my opinion.


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## WalnutBaron (Feb 13, 2018)

AJCts411 said:


> What's the consensus...does the value of a deeded Sunset week increase then? Trade and reselling? (Assuming a new property and the HPP "slow start").  I'm a "recently acquired week owner", I've never bothered to go to a Monday morning meeting...any reason to actually go to these things?


It sounds like you're looking at your recent purchase as an "investment". It isn't. It never will be--at least in the financial sense. If you're thinking that you'll be able to arbitrage a timeshare purchase into a large financial gain, just blot that from your consciousness. As Cropman pointed out, you may see a slight appreciation for a winter week during peak demand bought resale for Key West. But whatever return you might realize will be small, if you achieve it.

The reason to buy a timeshare is for the experience, so it IS an investment in your peace of mind, relaxation, experiences with loved ones, and making memories.

Regarding your question about attending an "Owner's Update", avoid it at all costs. It's not an update, you won't learn anything worthwhile, and you'll be giving up 2-4 hours of precious vacation time to the sales weasels.


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## bdh (Feb 14, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Regarding your question about attending an "Owner's Update", avoid it at all costs. It's not an update, you won't learn anything worthwhile, and you'll be giving up 2-4 hours of precious vacation time to the sales weasels.



I'm thinking AJCts411 was referring to the resort manager's on site "owners meeting" that provides information on previous and pending resort projects in lieu of a TS sales presentation that the industry has renamed "owners update".

My answer to attending the "owner's meeting" - they are typically only 30 minutes or so and can (but not always) provide good insight on the specific property.


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## Kal (Feb 14, 2018)

ANNOTHER NEW RESORT - The Marriott Beachside Resort is now in play too.  This is located adjacent to the Hyatt Beach House.  It very well might be the first announcement in the HPP's desperation to buy something.


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## WalnutBaron (Feb 14, 2018)

Kal said:


> ANNOTHER NEW RESORT - The Marriott Beachside Resort is now in play too.  This is located adjacent to the Hyatt Beach House.  It very well might be the first announcement in the HPP's desperation to buy something.


Kal, you're right: Hyatt/ILG is "desperate". Their sales goals are so far from being met that they must buy an attractive and well-known property in order to legitimize HPP. They sure are pouring a lot of resources into this thing. They have a major problem, though: *the economics of HPP simply do not make sense for HRC owners*, no matter how many attractive properties they buy!


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## AJCts411 (Feb 14, 2018)

bdh...yes I was referring to the owners meeting.  Never went because of the idea of the "sales weasels" I learned about on tug and the value of my time.  Also, I bought to use the week, as the rental costs have risen so steeply over the last several years. So buying actually allows me to afford to go to KW in one of my favorite weeks.  After 5 years..I could walk away for zero, by using the calculator I found on Tug, comparing rental to the maintenance/purchase costs.  So the speculation of increase in value was just merely for a "what if" senario. Many thanks to those experts and experienced Tuggers found here who share their knowledge and opinions.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Feb 14, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Kal, you're right: Hyatt/ILG is "desperate". Their sales goals are so far from being met that they must buy an attractive and well-known property in order to legitimize HPP. They sure are pouring a lot of resources into this thing. They have a major problem, though: *the economics of HPP simply do not make sense for HRC owners*, no matter how many attractive properties they buy!


Not sure why Hyatt is continuing to cluster their resorts in the same areas. There are so many Florida and Colorado resorts. It seems that it would make more sense to diversify to attract more folks


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## ivywag (Feb 14, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Not sure why Hyatt is continuing to cluster their resorts in the same areas. There are so many Florida and Colorado resorts. It seems that it would make more sense to diversify to attract more folks


One word--SNOWBIRDS!


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## Tucsonadventurer (Feb 14, 2018)

ivywag said:


> One word--SNOWBIRDS!


True but wish they would include southern CA and more Hawaii. Most likely they can pick up cheaper properties elsewhere.


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## Cropman (Feb 16, 2018)

Kal said:


> ANNOTHER NEW RESORT - The Marriott Beachside Resort is now in play too.  This is located adjacent to the Hyatt Beach House.  It very well might be the first announcement in the HPP's desperation to buy something.



Kal, you are certainly more in the know than me, but how does that even make sense?  Not in Old Town, Beach House right there, and all the unsold inventory at what is a really nice resort at Windward. If they are going to add something, it has to be in Old Town.  They can’t build from the ground up, not with all the Conchs upset about lack of affordable housing.

So, ILG could convert something or buy another timeshare.  The Galleon has unsold units, but probably not enough during prime winter season.  Although, it’s a slim possibility. The Banyon is sold out so, again no available units for prime season. And neither one would return the ROI.

So what to convert?  The Marker?  Ocean Key?  Hyatt Centic (no chance)?  Not a lot of choices down there.  To buy something they will spend big bucks and have to sell a lot to make their ROI.  They have backed themselves into a corner.  Hawaii, which isn’t in the new program yet, isn’t available.  Old Town Key West isn’t available because no one wants to give up their week at their ridiculous pricing.  These two properties drive the program.  (Some will say there are some ski weeks also.). They are starting to panic because the new program isn’t working and they are running out of options.  Build or buy or do nothing?

I’m beginning to wonder if the rumors aren’t floated just to generate buzz.  Anyone remember Aruba?  The only way things will change is when the goofballs who thought up this program get “reassigned” and a new team comes in and lowers the barriers to entry for the HRC owners.


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## Sapper (Feb 17, 2018)

Why they are even bothering with Key West?  Yes, I get the snow birds from the NE like FL.  However, would it not make more sense to buy out the remainder of the Hawaii property in order to give access to HPP?  There is no Hyatt property in Vegas, I'm sure Blackstone would be thrilled to offload a few floors at the Cosmo.  This would give HPP a center strip location in a nice tower with a low barrier to entry.  I still like the idea of taking a floor from a couple of the Hyatt properties in cities, such as NY, SFO, ORD, MIA, etc.... (they could even expand this to the international hotels Hyatt has and make the HPP an international product as opposed to the HRC which would be stuck as domestic only). This could be a win / win.  Hyatt would probably be ok with it as they would have guaranteed income, and ILG would be able to offer a product otherwise unavailable to HPP members while at the same time broadening their property scope they can dangle to prospective owners.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Feb 17, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Why they are even bothering with Key West?  Yes, I get the snow birds from the NE like FL.  However, would it not make more sense to buy out the remainder of the Hawaii property in order to give access to HPP?  There is no Hyatt property in Vegas, I'm sure Blackstone would be thrilled to offload a few floors at the Cosmo.  This would give HPP a center strip location in a nice tower with a low barrier to entry.  I still like the idea of taking a floor from a couple of the Hyatt properties in cities, such as NY, SFO, ORD, MIA, etc.... (they could even expand this to the international hotels Hyatt has and make the HPP an international product as opposed to the HRC which would be stuck as domestic only). This could be a win / win.  Hyatt would probably be ok with it as they would have guaranteed income, and ILG would be able to offer a product otherwise unavailable to HPP members while at the same time broadening their property scope they can dangle to prospective owners.


I agree 5 resorts in Florida seems like it should meet the snowbird need.


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## IslandTime (Mar 7, 2018)

Any news on this yet? I would love to see another Hyatt in old town.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 5, 2019)

I wonder with Marriott purchasing IIG and consequently Hyatt that this new resort will simply never happen.


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## bogey21 (Jan 5, 2019)

So sad.  I spent a great 3 months in Key West after my Freshman Year of College  in 1954.  This was before the cruise ships, Key West being "discovered" and the demolition of Boat House Row.  The more development  the less I liked it.  Eventually I just stopped going...

George


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## Sapper (Jan 5, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I wonder with Marriott purchasing IIG and consequently Hyatt that this new resort will simply never happen.



Unfortunately, at this point, I doubt that II/Mariott will build any new Hyatt branded properties. I think they will finish up construction on current projects (Wild Oak) and that's it. I hope I am wrong, I would love to have more properties in the system, I just don't see it right now.


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## pedro47 (Jan 6, 2019)

Nice looking Resorts of things to come.  Are there that many Snowbirds in Key West from April to November???

I can understand from December to the end of March.  it is cold up north.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 7, 2019)

Sapper said:


> Unfortunately, at this point, I doubt that II/Mariott will build any new Hyatt branded properties. I think they will finish up construction on current projects (Wild Oak) and that's it. I hope I am wrong, I would love to have more properties in the system, I just don't see it right now.


Sapper, you're a wealth of good information on these boards (and the Hyatt board, in particular), but I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. Marriott knew what they were buying when they acquired ILG--and it included the smaller collection of uniformly high-end Hyatt properties that populate the HRC portfolio. Would it make strategic sense for Marriott to put all of its new development capital into Marriott resorts and leave the Hyatt owners twisting in the wind? I don't think so. In a separate thread, many of us weighed in on the implications of Marriott's ILG acquisition and concluded that Marriott would be wise to carve out different brand identities for the Marriott, Vistana, and Hyatt systems. I still think this makes the most sense--and Marriott has famously done so with its vast collection of hotel brands. Once those brand personalities are developed and articulated, I can definitely see Marriott investing in new properties. I don't think this will happen anytime soon--and probably not for another 2-4 years--but I am guessing there will be more growth and development.

That said, I also think there's a very high probability that Marriott re-names the Hyatt system. It makes no sense for Marriott to invest in and promote the Hyatt name when--on the hotel side of things--Hyatt is a strong competitor to Marriott and its family of hotel brands.


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## Kal (Jan 7, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I wonder with Marriott purchasing IIG and consequently Hyatt that this new resort will simply never happen.


Last winter there was speculation that Hyatt would purchase the Marriott property adjacent to the Hyatt Beach House.  (That property was originally a time share unit at the get go.)  Then the conversation shifted to another existing quality hotel property.  Now it would deserve consideration that the Marriott owned Hyatt time share system might lean toward rolling in that Marriott Hotel IF they indeed think another property in Key West makes sense.  My guess is there will be no new Key West properties to add to the system.


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## Sapper (Jan 8, 2019)

WalnutBaron said:


> Sapper, you're a wealth of good information on these boards (and the Hyatt board, in particular), but I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. Marriott knew what they were buying when they acquired ILG--and it included the smaller collection of uniformly high-end Hyatt properties that feel within the HRC portfolio. Would it make strategic sense for Marriott to put all of its new development capital into Marriott resorts and leave the Hyatt owners twisting in the wind? I don't think so. In a separate thread, many of us weighed in on the implications of Marriott's ILG acquisition and concluded that Marriott would be wise to carve out different brand identities for the Marriott, Vistana, and Hyatt systems. I still think this makes the most sense--and Marriott has famously done so with its vast collection of hotel brands. Once those brand personalities are developed and articulated, I can definitely see Marriott investing in new properties. I don't think this will happen anytime soon--and probably not for another 2-4 years--but I am guessing there will be more growth and development.
> 
> That said, I also think there's a very high probability that Marriott re-names the Hyatt system. It makes no sense for Marriott to invest in and promote the Hyatt name when--on the hotel side of things--Hyatt is a strong competitor to Marriott and its family of hotel brands.



Thank you for the polite discourse, you are agreeable even while in disagreement. Haha. I agree with much of what you have said, as it falls inline with my comment. I stated no new Hyatt branded properties. You state that Marriott will probably end the branding agreement with Hyatt, which I also agree with. I believe the change in branding will occurr prior to Marriott creating any new projects, hence no new Hyatt branded properties.  That being said, I also think that it is plausible that what ever system the existing Hyatt properties become, we legacy HRC owners may not have access to new properties. I say this because I believe that Marriott will restrict new development to a points based system (rebranded HPP?) in order to sell over priced points packages.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 8, 2019)

Sapper said:


> Thank you for the polite discourse, you are agreeable even while in disagreement. Haha. I agree with much of what you have said, as it falls inline with my comment. I stated no new Hyatt branded properties. You state that Marriott will probably end the branding agreement with Hyatt, which I also agree with. I believe the change in branding will occurr prior to Marriott creating any new projects, hence no new Hyatt branded properties.  That being said, I also think that it is plausible that what ever system the existing Hyatt properties become, we legacy HRC owners may not have access to new properties. I say this because I believe that Marriott will restrict new development to a points based system (rebranded HPP?) in order to sell over priced points packages.


You're probably right, Sapper. And that would be a terrible shame. On the other hand, it makes us weeks owners within the legacy HRC the holders of an increasingly valuable asset: direct access to the properties presently comprising HRC. I'm guessing Marriott has conducted a pretty thorough review of the dismal failure of the HPP program and are trying to figure out how to provide more value in order to lure weeks owners to convert to points. For me, longer reservation windows and options to convert to Marriott Rewards Points (or the rather ridiculous "Marriott Bonvoy" program, as it's rumored to be called in the very near future) are not nearly reason enough to cough up five figures in order to "enhance" my ownership. Unfortunately, Marriott will probably snag a lot of unsuspecting newbies. The HRC program is a great value, but getting access to new resorts through anything but a points program may very well be an accurate analysis.


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