# Got deeded the wrong HGVC



## Cyberc (Jan 9, 2015)

Hi tuggers

I'm writing in hope of finding whatever solution its possible to find.

Late last year I bought a HGVC at the strip unit, from Sumday. I got the confirmation, and contract which states its a strip unit. 

After the sale has been finalised and everything is ok, i have been starting using my HGVC access and everything seemed fine. 

Today I clicked "pay fees and taxes" and now I had a bill due. This seemed ok, since I haven't pay mf for 2015 yet. The amount due did however not seem ok. The amount due was for a HGVC at paradise. 

At first I didn't know what HGVC at paradise was, so I googled it and found it to be HGVC at Karen Ave. 

After searching here for the MF for 2015 I can see that my bill for 2015 is for HGVC Karen Ave.

I have been searching the documents I got and purchase confirmation and contract says the Strip. The Estopple says Paradise.

I have already written sumday and the closing company and asked that they find a solution.

What are my options? I would say that they should take the property back and makesure that I get the correct one.

regards


----------



## GregT (Jan 9, 2015)

That is certainly odd, but not without precedent.  I encountered a similar situation when I put in an offer on an HGVC - Sea World, and the paperwork came back for HGVC I-Drive.   I debated canceling but proceeded anyway figuring it was close enough to what I wanted.

I guess the question is if there is a significant difference in owning those two properties.  If your heart was set on visiting the other one as your home resort, then I would make a stink.    If you are buying for a points generator, the MFs may be very similar (you may even have the lower MF property now) in which case it may be worth keeping.

Others will comment too, I'm sure, but it may still be worth keeping if it's the points and the MF that you were expecting.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 9, 2015)

Hi GregT

Thanks for your thoughts.

The points are the same but the MF are not the same. The MF at Karen Ave is 635$ and the MF at the strip is: 570$

I bought the strip because of the lower MF so getting a property with a more expensive MF was not part of my plan.

On the other hand the Karen Ave might not have the same resale value as the strip, should I choose to sell it.

Could I just ask sumday to re-deed the property?

regards


----------



## GregT (Jan 9, 2015)

How many points is this for?

I think you have an excellent case to get Sumday to take the week back, but it's not clear that they will have exactly the replacement week that you are looking for -- and you may just be getting your money back.

It certainly doesn't hurt to push them for the swap, and you always have the option to keep your existing week.   You are correct that people will pay (modestly) more for the lower-MF week so there is a (modest) value difference in what you have versus what you thought you were getting.

Please let us know how it gets resolved.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 9, 2015)

its for 3400 annual points.

I think you are correct in assuming that they might just give me my money back.

I almost made a reservation at RCI today, i cant stop thinking what If i had. then the points would have been used, and i might be stuck with the property.

regards


----------



## Talent312 (Jan 9, 2015)

Did you get a copy of the deed before it was recorded?
If so, the burden is on you to make sure that it conforms.
Acceptance of the deed infers that you accepted the change.
IOW, the deed is the final word on whatever you agreed.

If you were not shown a copy of the deed, they are at fault.

Either way, you can raise a stink about it, if you want. But...
IMHO, the small difference is not worth the trouble of undoing it.
.
.


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 9, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> The points are the same but the MF are not the same. The MF at Karen Ave is 635$ and the MF at the strip is: 570$
> 
> I bought the strip because of the lower MF so getting a property with a more expensive MF was not part of my plan.
> 
> On the other hand the Karen Ave might not have the same resale value as the strip, should I choose to sell it.



I have two thoughts here.  First, if you bought based on the numbers rather than a desire to stay at the Strip, since the Points are the same I'd just eat the extra $65 a year rather than get involved in a pissing contest.  Second, I know nothing about the relative resale values but what I do know is I prefer staying at the Karan Avenue property over the Strip.

George


----------



## SMHarman (Jan 9, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> I have two thoughts here.  First, if you bought based on the numbers rather than a desire to stay at the Strip, since the Points are the same I'd just eat the extra $65 a year rather than get involved in a pissing contest.  Second, I know nothing about the relative resale values but what I do know is I prefer staying at the Karan Avenue property over the Strip.
> 
> George


^ this. I concur.


----------



## aamista (Jan 10, 2015)

how much did you pay?
Thanks


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 10, 2015)

I think would definitely question the seller/broker on this.  Clearly you didn't end up with what was advertised.  But i do agree with the others for such a small difference in MF, not sure i would attempt to unwind the whole transaction..

Not sure why, i have noticed a lot of confusing / conflicting listing for Vegas.  People specify one resort, but post pictures of a different one, or get the name wrong compared with the address..

It does not help that a few of the HGVC resorts seem to have multiple names, HGVC on the Strip, changed to HGVC Boulevard.  Karan and Paradise are both used to describe the location at the old LV Hilton..


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks for your replies everyone.



Talent312 said:


> Did you get a copy of the deed before it was recorded?
> If so, the burden is on you to make sure that it conforms.
> Acceptance of the deed infers that you accepted the change.
> IOW, the deed is the final word on whatever you agreed.
> ...



I did not see a copy of the deed before it was recorded, I know that the difference in MF is not a big one, but who knows what will happen in the years to come. Maybe the HGVC at paradise will increase more than others, maybe its the other way around.

I just want what I bought.



> I have two thoughts here. First, if you bought based on the numbers rather than a desire to stay at the Strip, since the Points are the same I'd just eat the extra $65 a year rather than get involved in a pissing contest. Second, I know nothing about the relative resale values but what I do know is I prefer staying at the Karan Avenue property over the Strip.
> 
> George


My purchase was based on points and the lowest MF not location. I know that the difference in MF is not that great (for now). But maybe in the future Paradise will see even greater MF than the Strip, and then I will regret having the property. 



> how much did you pay?
> Thanks



I paid 1000$, but the cost is not the point. The point is that I got the wrong property and paid good money for it.



> I think would definitely question the seller/broker on this. Clearly you didn't end up with what was advertised. But i do agree with the others for such a small difference in MF, not sure i would attempt to unwind the whole transaction..
> 
> Not sure why, i have noticed a lot of confusing / conflicting listing for Vegas. People specify one resort, but post pictures of a different one, or get the name wrong compared with the address..
> 
> It does not help that a few of the HGVC resorts seem to have multiple names, HGVC on the Strip, changed to HGVC Boulevard. Karan and Paradise are both used to describe the location at the old LV Hilton..



I have already contacted both the broker and closing agent, and are awaiting their answer. I know that I will regret accepting a property if the MF increases big time and I had an option earlier to say "no thanks"  On the other hand if it was the property on the strip that saw a major increase in MF, i'd be more ok since I bought the property and it was my choice.

Had i been gifted the property and not paid for it, I could always gift it away at no expense if I felt the mf was too high.

I agree I have see some listings where one location i listed and the pictures shows another.

regards


----------



## brp (Jan 10, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> I just want what I bought.
> 
> 
> I paid 1000$, but the cost is not the point. The point is that I got the wrong property and paid good money for it.



I fully agree with wanting what you bought. However, if all you get is your money back, I think you might have a hard time finding that same deal and getting it through ROFR based on current listings I'm seeing. It already happened, so it could certainly happen again. But it could be some work.

So, you may want to weigh getting what you want versus getting something that's still a good deal.

Cheers.


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 10, 2015)

My guess is that the MFs at the Strip are still being subsidized by HGVC to encourage sales while the MFs at Karan Ave are mature.  What I am saying is I think there is a far better chance that the MFs on the Strip will be larger than those on Karan Ave in a couple of years.

George


----------



## LisaH (Jan 11, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> My guess is that the MFs at the Strip are still being subsidized by HGVC to encourage sales while the MFs at Karan Ave are mature.  What I am saying is I think there is a far better chance that the MFs on the Strip will be larger than those on Karan Ave in a couple of years.
> 
> George



Don't know for sure but this is certainly a possibility. 
Also, did you see the estoppel letter before you proceed to purchasing? If so, you should also take some responsibility. After all, the main purpose of getting the estoppel letter is to verify the details and make sure you are getting what was advertised.


----------



## Great3 (Jan 11, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> My guess is that the MFs at the Strip are still being subsidized by HGVC to encourage sales while the MFs at Karan Ave are mature.  What I am saying is I think there is a far better chance that the MFs on the Strip will be larger than those on Karan Ave in a couple of years.
> 
> George



This is agree with.  Judi has mentioned this to me many times about the strip location.  It's low now, but will go up to be in line with the rest of Vegas.  My question is when?  If 10+ years, than I would want to own the strip location.

Of course I would want what I paid for and what I should be getting, if this happened to me.  But had it been $1000 for the strip location and not Karen, I wonder if the contract would have been taken by ROFR, so you end up with nothing.  If that's okay with you, I would keep on pushing until I get a full refund, but I wouldn't expected a replacement to happen.  Realistically, if I got a refund and an apologize in this case, I wouldn't be surprised.  But if you already have points booked and planned for already, losing the points will disrupt your vacation big time.  It's a big decision that ultimately you will need to make.

Good Luck,
Great3


----------



## Great3 (Jan 11, 2015)

LisaH said:


> Don't know for sure but this is certainly a possibility.
> Also, did you see the estoppel letter before you proceed to purchasing? If so, you should also take some responsibility. After all, the main purpose of getting the estoppel letter is to verify the details and make sure you are getting what was advertised.



Quoting OP:  
I have been searching the documents I got and purchase confirmation and contract says the Strip. The Estopple says Paradise.

Sorry OP, I am going to have to agree with Lisa on this, ultimately, it's your responsibility to make sure you understand the Estoppel to make sure nothing was amissed, and your Estoppel did refer to another location besides the Strip location.  But yeah, I would still push to get a refund and deed reversal if that's what you want, I do believe you are entitled to that.  Whether or not you get that is another story.

Again, Good Luck, and keep us posted on the end result...  I had considering purchasing from SUMDAY many times, and it's times like this that defines to me what integrity means to a company.

Great3


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 11, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> My guess is that the MFs at the Strip are still being subsidized by HGVC to encourage sales while the MFs at Karan Ave are mature.  What I am saying is I think there is a far better chance that the MFs on the Strip will be larger than those on Karan Ave in a couple of years.
> 
> George



Hi

From what I heard/ read the mf at the strip is not being subsidized anymore. Also there should not be an active ongoing sale at the strip. 

Regards.


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 11, 2015)

LisaH said:


> Don't know for sure but this is certainly a possibility.
> Also, did you see the estoppel letter before you proceed to purchasing? If so, you should also take some responsibility. After all, the main purpose of getting the estoppel letter is to verify the details and make sure you are getting what was advertised.



I had asked for the estoppel prior to closing but it wasn't provided to me until after the deed was recorded. 

Regards


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 11, 2015)

Great3 said:


> Quoting OP:
> I have been searching the documents I got and purchase confirmation and contract says the Strip. The Estopple says Paradise.
> 
> Sorry OP, I am going to have to agree with Lisa on this, ultimately, it's your responsibility to make sure you understand the Estoppel to make sure nothing was amissed, and your Estoppel did refer to another location besides the Strip location.  But yeah, I would still push to get a refund and deed reversal if that's what you want, I do believe you are entitled to that.  Whether or not you get that is another story.
> ...



Hi

The estoppel wasn't provided to me until after the deed was recorded. I had asked for it prior though. 

I'll keep you guys updated, I'll expect an answer from the closing/broker tomorrow so then I'll know some more. 

Regards.


----------



## LisaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> I had asked for the estoppel prior to closing but it wasn't provided to me until after the deed was recorded.
> 
> Regards



I see. Good luck. I think you do have a strong case.


----------



## Great3 (Jan 11, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Hi
> 
> The estoppel wasn't provided to me until after the deed was recorded. I had asked for it prior though.
> 
> ...



I C, yeah, that's unfortunate about the estoppel.  Although I know you said you just want to be deeded the correct property at the strip, if SUMDAY doesn't have a 3400 pts package at the Strip location, they don't have something they could sell to you.  So, I am hoping they get you what you want, but be prepared that after a pissing match, there might not be much they can do other than a deed reversal and cancellation of the contract.

Great3


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 12, 2015)

Just hear from Sumday.

They are laying flat down on the floor admitting that they have made an error.

They are offering me one of two options.

1. I keep the property, and get 500$ back. They also pay the difference in this years MF at 65$.

2. They cancel the purchase and reverse the transfer, and I get all my money back when the property has been deeded back. They suggest that I pay this years MF (they reimburse the difference at 65$) and I use this years points.

Which offer do you guys think is the better one?

I honestly don't know what I want. I think option 2 would be better, since the MF means something to me, and this way I get to search for a new unit at the strip with higher points. 

What I don't get is that, if I get to use this years points, then I should use them before the reverse transfer is done (correct?) If I dont use them, they are lost?

Could I instead have HGVC move the points to my Vilamoura account, I know they offered to do so for my vilamoura account so I could combine the points.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts.

regards


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jan 12, 2015)

I can't speak on your options since I am not familiar with the properties or HGVC but I can speak about Sumday. If they make an error or have any part in an oversight, they are always going to make it right. They are one of the best, if not the best, mass seller out there.


----------



## aamista (Jan 12, 2015)

I think $500 will cover around 6-7 years of mf difference between strip and karen, and thats mean too that u got the whole deal of $500 also which is not bad
Unless u hate to buy something u didnt want from the begining
Also i dont know which one is better when u try to resell in the futur ; is it karn or the strip?
Last thing u need to know that strip mf increase percentage is more than karen increase
I didnt like second option i think u should take it all or leave it all with a promise of a discount of u next purchase
Thays my opinion cause i was in the same situation last year


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 13, 2015)

thanks for your thoughts, but if I can transfer the points from the Las vegas unit to my Vilamours unit I think i'll do that.

HGVC offered to do that just the other way around so the Vilamoura points was transfered to the Vegas account.

Does anyone know if that is possible and what happends to the LV points when the property transfers away?

Regards


----------



## Great3 (Jan 13, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> thanks for your thoughts, but if I can transfer the points from the Las vegas unit to my Vilamours unit I think i'll do that.
> 
> HGVC offered to do that just the other way around so the Vilamoura points was transfered to the Vegas account.
> 
> ...



I don't know the answer to your question above, but my thoughts are if you take option # 2, than you probably won't be able to get a Strip location as a replacement unit for $1,000 or less, I would think ROFR will kick in.  But I ain't an expert, it is just a guess of mine.  Maybe Seth or Judi can chime in with their experiences.

But if you are looking for > 3,400 points for the next purchase, this is an easy out for you to start over.

Thanks for sharing, I can see now that SUMDAY is a definite reputable seller.

Great3


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 13, 2015)

I'd take the $500 in a heart beat.  I like Karan Ave better and believe the MFs at the Strip will be more than Karan Ave in a couple of years.

George


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 13, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> I'd take the $500 in a heart beat.  I like Karan Ave better and believe the MFs at the Strip will be more than Karan Ave in a couple of years.
> 
> George




Hi

Why do you think that? From what I read the mf at the strip is not subsidized anymore. 

Regards.


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 13, 2015)

Great3 said:


> I don't know the answer to your question above, but my thoughts are if you take option # 2, than you probably won't be able to get a Strip location as a replacement unit for $1,000 or less, I would think ROFR will kick in.  But I ain't an expert, it is just a guess of mine.  Maybe Seth or Judi can chime in with their experiences.
> 
> But if you are looking for > 3,400 points for the next purchase, this is an easy out for you to start over.
> 
> ...



Hi
As you wrote, it's an easy way out and then I could start to look for more than 3.400 pts. I know that my next purchase will cost more than 1000$ but then I will also get more than 3.400 pts. 

I will properly look for 4.800 or 6.200, the latter will be to expensive so it will most likely be eoy. 


Regards


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 13, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Why do you think that? From what I read the mf at the strip is not subsidized anymore.



Just guessing based on the Strip being a newer property and my stays at both properties.  Obviously I could be wrong.

George


----------



## piyooshj (Jan 13, 2015)

I'd keep it just for 50-70 a year difference. You dont control which one will have higher MFs in future and it can go either way. Both are good deal and one may be slightly better. If you were to rank them they would be #1 and #2 or #1 and #3. Cancelling and redoing it all over again is a risk and you will also lose some vacation time otherwise, how much is that worth to you? So decide.


----------



## Cyberc (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi everyone. 

Thanks for all your comments. I have decided to let this one go.

I have "kept" this years points by moving them to my other hgvc account. According to hgvc they will stay there even if I don't have the paradise unit anymore. 

Once the deed have been recorded I will receive a refund. 

Regards.


----------



## brp (Jan 14, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Thanks for all your comments. I have decided to let this one go.



I'm glad you did what was right for you in the end.

Amusing, though, that you came asking for suggestions and, while *every* person suggested the other course of action, you chose this one. Clearly you had already made up your mind before you even asked and weren't going to be swayed by any argument 

In the end these decisions are both emotional and financial (sometimes more financial, sometimes, as here, more based on emotion). Always best to do what "feels" right.

Cheers.


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 14, 2015)

brp said:


> Amusing, though, that you came asking for suggestions and, while *every* person suggested the other course of action, you chose this one.



I think a number of responders suggested the course of action chosen (or something very close to it).  

George


----------



## piyooshj (Jan 14, 2015)

I think the primary reason people suggested to cancel was it was a lower pt/season deed 3400 pts which I missed. A good reason to get out while he can and look for something better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aamista (Jan 14, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> I think the primary reason people suggested to cancel was it was a lower pt/season deed 3400 pts which I missed. A good reason to get out while he can and look for something better.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think the main reason he get out that fast , that he wasnt convinced of the 3,400 from the begining and he founds a good way out


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Jan 15, 2015)

Glad you were able to get this resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

Guess the moral of the story is to always check your paperwork promptly.  This might have had a different outcome if you had not checked over the paperwork and didn't notice till much later.


----------

