# Feeling a little educated, want more though...



## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

Happy Independence weekend TUG folks...

I have been watching the forums for a few weeks, trying to gain some education, while I have ben searching some of the marketplaces.  I'm starting to get the picture, but I think its time to ask a few questions to fill in the blanks and I am hoping some of you might have those answers.

Background --  Currently do not own any timeshares, looking for my first.  I own a technology consulting firm and am interested in the company purchasing the timeshare, but as an "executive perk" and potential perk for the staff.  Translation, I am looking to have multiple weeks worth of travel annually.

I am leaning towards points, both because of flexibility and because it just seems to be the general direction things have moved towards.

While I am leaning towards Wyndham, my heart is not set there, my heart is set on whatever is best for my goals, short and long term.  I also do not believe I ultimately will own a single TS, but multiple, as many of you do.

Question 1 - I have looked at RCI and Wyndham. Are they essentially the same?  I hear there is some form of co-mingling of the management or something.  Any preference of one over the other?

Question 2 - Wyndham concerns me.  I am reading a lot of the negative on the treatment of owners and dilution of the benefits.  Resales are to be had on eBay and the likes for nearly nothing.  I always practiced, if its too good to be true, it must be.  With all the negative information on Wyndham, can someone help me understand why it might still be a good idea?

Question 3 - Are the $1.00 auctions with eBay scam, too good to be true, a heck of a bargain?

Question 4 - Trading power vs points -- is there a difference?  I know the home resort affects the MF, but does it have any impact on trading within RCI or other exchanges?

Question 5 - I hear there is something special about the first TS purchase.  Does my first TS purchase of points lock me into a specific exchange (RCI, II, etc) - Does it establish my "home resort" permanently or does home resort simply tie to where you have points, even if you own multiple sets of points?

Question 6 - If my background and questions haven't led you to realize it, I am fairly focuses on exchanges and trading, for variety purposes.  I am looking at home resort from the perspective of whether I would want to vacation there or not (Hawaii, Bonnet Creek, etc.) but I am also very much about the variety of life and wanting to have that flexibility.  Am I going down a path that can make that happen or am I setting myself up for disappointment?

Question 7 - Large point purchase or lots of smaller points purchases?  It seems, as a corporate incentive program, we would ultimately be looking at 1M+ points to cover my own, as well as some incentive travel annually.  I have seen resell of 1M+ out there, reasonably priced.  What advantages or disadvantages do you see in large point purchases over multiple smaller (100-200K, etc) purchases?

Question 8 - MF - I know big topic -- Since exchange is important to me, MF is going to be equally important to keeping overall, annual cost under control.  I know there are thousands of resorts.  Is there any easy way to review the MF costs currently and historically?  While MF is not my sole deciding factor, I think it would be negligent not to factor the MF into the equation.

Question 9 - Developer perks - I understand the consensus is these are way over-hyped and definitely not worth the added cost of developer points.  Anyone have a compelling example where these perks (VIP status, guest passes, park passes etc.) have a real impact?  More importantly, how about in scheduling - Does it really make a difference in scheduling if you are planning 10-12 months out what trips you want to take?

FINAL Question 10 - Rentals - While the plan is to use the TS for myself and staff, if/when there are leftover points, how difficult, it at all, is it to rent those points out vs losing them?  Any more difficult resale vs developer?  More specifically, the lack of included guest passes.  As resale, I can still get these can't I, I just have to pay?

Thank you so much if you have managed to read all the way to the end of this lengthy post :zzz:  I know its long, I know it has a lot of questions, but I also know I need to have all my answers before I make a decision to invest in a TS, where the upfront cost my not be much, but there is a lifetime of MF after the close 

Thanks and have a wonderful holiday weekend, wherever you are!


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## Tia (Jul 2, 2011)

RCI and Wyndham are different, related however. RCI is strictly an exchange company. 

You can't rent your Wyndham points out to others Wyndham points owners anymore, only Wyndham can. 

Keep reading  as there is a learning curve that is important before taking on this commitment.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 2, 2011)

*Buy Timeshares Resale.  Save Thousands.*




raptor78 said:


> I am leaning towards points, both because of flexibility and because it just seems to be the general direction things have moved towards.


Yeh -- but within RCI, straight weeks are lots more like points ("Pointe Lite") now that the once-secret trading power numbers (TPUs) are no longer hidden.  Plus, you can get change back when you swap a big-TPU week for a smaller-TPU week, & for a fee you can combine TPUs.


raptor78 said:


> I have looked at RCI and Wyndham. Are they essentially the same?  I hear there is some form of co-mingling of the management or something.


Not the same.  Both owned by the same corporate parent, however.


raptor78 said:


> With all the negative information on Wyndham, can someone help me understand why it might still be a good idea?


The system is good & the value is in the basic points-based ownership.  VIP, etc., is just sales hype & ballyhoo.  What VIP perks there are cost 10+ more times than they're worth.  Even so, VIP perks are not guaranteed.  By contrast, resale Wyndham points available via eBay, etc., for somewhere between _el freebo_ & fractions of a cent each, get you all the same basic ownership rights & benefits that the full-freight buyers get.  

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money, & that specially goes for Wyndham points & even more for Wyndham VIP status. 


raptor78 said:


> Are the $1.00 auctions with eBay scam, too good to be true, a heck of a bargain?


Big bargain, if _-- IF --_ the timeshare offered at $1 is any good.  Some of the eBay $1 timeshare sellers also offer timeshares _el freebo_, whether you buy any of their $1 timeshares or not.  Even so, you've got to be choosy -- don't want to end up with dogs & cats of the timeshare world that end up costing more in mandatory annual maintenance fees than they're worth as actual vacation accommodations. 


raptor78 said:


> Trading power vs points -- is there a difference?  I know the home resort affects the MF, but does it have any impact on trading within RCI or other exchanges?


Points are points.  In RCI Points, however, watch out for regional blocks that prevent you from using your points for exchange if the points-timeshare you own is too close to the points-timeshare you want to exchange into.  DVC-Orlando is the most famous example of regional block.  There could be others, I don't know. 


raptor78 said:


> Am I going down a path that can make that happen or am I setting myself up for disappointment?


That depends on your expectations.  Getting timeshare exchange reservations is not like making hotel reservations, no matter how many points you own.  The time you want at the timeshare you want to go to has to be available within the exchange system or you can't exchange in no matter what.  (You might be able to rent directly from an owner, however.  Not all reservations come from the exchange companies & the proprietary points-based systems.) 


raptor78 said:


> Large point purchase or lots of smaller points purchases?


One size might not fit all.  It's not only a matter of how many points it takes to get the reservations you want, it's also a matter of maintenance fees governed by the actual resort(s) where the points originate.  Also, multiple ownerships might possibly cost more in fees, other things being equal, just because the administrative component of what you pay will be multiplied by how many separate ownerships you have.  By contrast, if all the points come from a single ownership, there's just 1 administrative component that goes into what you pay overall for operations & maintenance & real estate taxes & reserves.  (It's semi-complicated.)


raptor78 said:


> Is there any easy way to review the MF costs currently and historically?  While MF is not my sole deciding factor, I think it would be negligent not to factor the MF into the equation.


You typed a mouthful.  But the answer is no -- i.e., there's no easy way of doing that.  You've got to do the tedious, boring, painstaking research yourself of all the fees charged by all the thousands of timeshares out there.  Last year we deeded a dinky points timeshare back to the resort (with permission) because the annual fees that were high to begin with escalated way out of proportion.  We factor maintenance fees into the equation but we do not do the tedious & boring research.  That's because our holdings are so paltry that it's easier to make course corrections as we go than to dope it all out in detail ahead of time.


raptor78 said:


> Developer perks - I understand the consensus is these are way over-hyped and definitely not worth the added cost of developer points.


You got that right.  Most of the pro-perks & pro-VIP commentary I've seen looks mainly like retroactive attempts to justify unfortunate full-freight timeshare purchases.  Click here -- also here -- for TUG-BBS discussions from last year in which you may find some pretzel-shape contortions in the attempt to justify paying full freight.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## sue1947 (Jul 2, 2011)

*Where do you want to go?*

The big question you haven't mentioned is where you want to book.  Do you want drive to opportunities for your employees or fly to?  There are many different points based systems besides Wyndham.  However, which one works best for you really depends on where you want to book.   You can exchange, but that adds more time constraints into the situation.   I suspect you will need much more flexibility in cancellations than an exchange will allow.  
Other point based systems may allow more flexibility with less maintenance fees, but it all boils down to where you want to book. 

Sue


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

Sue:

I guess I didn't ask that one as it was a little of both -- I love road trips, I enjoy flying and the same for quick weekend getaways -- Living in Kansas, I have been looking at some of the Branson properties, for that very reason, since they were close -- I just wasn't real sure if choosing that first home resort would have any real impact -- I think this whole "TPU" concept might be something I need to look into even more...

While the eBay stuff looks appealing, is it just junk, in terms of TPU - low quality being offloaded, or something of real value...

On the bright side, not something I need to purchase today, so more time to research, learn and educate...

Thanks!

Mike


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Happy Independence weekend TUG folks...
> 
> I have been watching the forums for a few weeks, trying to gain some education, while I have ben searching some of the marketplaces.  I'm starting to get the picture, but I think its time to ask a few questions to fill in the blanks and I am hoping some of you might have those answers.
> 
> ...



1) related but different..A Wyndham points purchase gets you an included RCI membership

2) I think Wyndham offers a great product for the money. The people at the resorts and on the phone (reservations, financial services etc) are helpful, and respectful. The negative you read is directed mostly at the sales dept, which if you but resal, you will never have to meet

3) The dollar auctions on ebay are not scams..from the buyers perspective. be careful though..You wont get the best value at a dollar (mf will be high). You have to know how the big ebay sellers get their inventory (that may be a scam) read up on PCC's for an understanding. 

4) Trading power is the new RCI "points lite" system, not to be confused with RCI points or Wyndhams point system (or any other points system) There are discussions here on TUG to explain the differences

5) In my Wyndham account the points are rolled together. A new purchase just adds to the rest. Wyndham does include an exchange company membership as part of the program fees you pay. And I think you are right...the first purchase determines which one...I dont trade (except within Wyndham) so I cant discuss the merits of RCI or II. Either one is a waste for me..I find that there are enough resorts within the Wyndham system to do what I want to do

6) Wyndham satisfies those needs for me, I cant speak to the other systems (Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc)

7) Wyndham just raised their transfer fee to $299/contract, so 1mm points in 5 contracts will cost $1500 vs $300 for one big one at purchase. The larger low mf contracts seem to sell for a higher price (per point) however...I think its a wash

8) mf to me is the biggest factor to consider. the purchase is a one time cost you can amortize over years...mf is forever. The subject of mf in the Wyndham system is like the game of Chess..you can learn the rules in an hour, but to really understand whats going on may take longer.  The larger, newer, urban resorts tend to have the lower mf  Why? 1)costs are spread over a larger number of units, 2) the points per unit are more than at the older resorts 3) there are no grounds to maintain at urban locations 4) wyndham keeps costs down where they have an active sales force

Fixed weeks that have been converted to points can have either very high  or very low mf, depending on the size of the unit and season of the week

If I had it to do over Id buy at National Harbor, or San Francisco

9) Wyndhams VIP benefits have real value the free guest certificates and discounts for reservations made within 60 days of check in can save some real money, but not nearly enough to justify paying developer prices

10) Rentals work, You can either make a reservation first and rent it. or find your tenant first, and then make the reservation to order (some call this renting points)..Either way you will have to pay for guest certificates. You may have to pay for these anyway unless you structure this purchase correctly. If the person checking in is not an owner, you will have to have guest certificates

As you can see my answers have been Wyndham centric...thats all I know. The system is a good one and I think will work for your purposes. especially if there are Wyndham resorts within driving distance of your place of business.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm interested to learn about how your going to work it as an incentive package...are you going to reserve ahead of time...and offer that specific resort/time frame...or will it be more, employees get a choice of where/when they want to stay


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 2, 2011)

*To A Degree, Quality Is In The Eye Of The Beholder.*




raptor78 said:


> While the eBay stuff looks appealing, is it just junk, in terms of TPU - low quality being offloaded, or something of real value.


We recently bought two _-- 2 --_ dinky triennial points units at Vacation Village At Parkway via eBay.  They started out at $1, no reserve.  When the dust settled, we won both -- 1 for about $162, the other right about $200. 

Some TUG folks look down their noses at Vacation Village At Parkway, saying it's too big, has too many cookie-cutter high rises, offers too few activities on site, lacks resort "feel," & therefore it sux canal water & shux upon it.  The units are very nice, though, & The Chief Of Staff & I still like the place mainly because of that -- not that we'll be using our newish eBay points to go there.  We're more apt to keep using RCI _Last Call_ for Vacation Village At Parkway reservations, even though that timeshare is now our "home resort" in the points system.  

Both of our eBay wins for Vacation Village At Parkway came with free or cut-rate closing (1 at 1, 1 at the other) & with free resort transfer, plus 2 or 3 years of free banked points that other people paid for. (Two years at 1, 3 years at the other.)  One also came with free RCI Points transfer.  

By contrast, some of the other $1 eBay auctions for Vacation Village At Parkway are offered with no freebies at all, & some of'm are for straight-weeks units rather than points-converted units. 

Being selective about the timeshare & the deal is what I mean by being choosy.  What suits me might not suit you & vice versa. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm interested to learn about how your going to work it as an incentive package...are you going to reserve ahead of time...and offer that specific resort/time frame...or will it be more, employees get a choice of where/when they want to stay



We are a smaller company, so a little more "family oriented" in that there is not a lock of bureaucracy involved...

I envision sharing options with our team and gathering interest from them - from there looking at the availabilities and options and reserving stays that can be gifted to the employee -- they have other expenses, which may or may not be covered by the company -- honestly for me, while incentive was the word I chose, I actually look at it more as an employee retention tool...

Example -- John hits his 5 year mark with the company -- we might book him and his family a 2br in Orlando and cover airfare -- what he does in Orlando with the family is up to him...

That is the thinking at least 

Mike


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## Steve (Jul 2, 2011)

Hi Mike,

Like you, I own a small company.  I have given several timeshare vacations to my employees.  It's a great perk, and they really enjoy it when they get one.  (None of my timeshares are owned by the company, however.  I own them all myself...but that's a corporate decision that you can make as to how you want to handle that.) 

For ease of use, convenience, and the absolute maximum flexibility, I suggest you look at WorldMark.  It is part of the Wyndham family, but it is much simpler and easier to use than Wyndham Vacation Club.  WorldMark trades great in both II and RCI and you can use it to trade into the top resorts such as Marriotts, Hyatts, and Hiltons.  In addition, there are several midwest locations including Branson, Lake of the Ozarks, and Grand Lake.  

Steve


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Yeh -- but within RCI, straight weeks are lots more like points ("Pointe Lite") now that the once-secret trading power numbers (TPUs) are no longer hidden.  Plus, you can get change back when you swap a big-TPU week for a smaller-TPU week, & for a fee you can combine TPUs.



I may have misled a little bit.  While I emphasized trading/exchanging a lot, I should have prefaced with saying I suspect the majority of what I am seeking to accomplish could be accomplished within the Wyndham network.  Of course RCI, and external trading options are valuable and something I would want to have access to, I suspect more than 80% of my interests would be satisfied from within the Wyndham network.



AwayWeGo said:


> Big bargain, if _-- IF --_ the timeshare offered at $1 is any good.



I know everyone has their opinion on what makes a timeshare a "good" deal -- of course costs and MF likely play a large portion of that.  Is there anything else, specifically related to eBay, you would care to share in terms of what you look for or would consider a "good" deal?



AwayWeGo said:


> Points are points.  In RCI Points, however, watch out for regional blocks that prevent you from using your points for exchange if the points-timeshare you own is too close to the points-timeshare you want to exchange into.  DVC-Orlando is the most famous example of regional block.



Regional blocks?  That's a new term to me.  Could you elaborate a little more on this concept?  If I am trading within the Wyndham network, does this still remain an issue?  If its a considerable problem, would that be a reason to consider setting your home resort "in the middle of nowhere?



AwayWeGo said:


> That depends on your expectations.  Getting timeshare exchange reservations is not like making hotel reservations, no matter how many points you own.



I do understand the supply and demand concept, in terms of availability -- and I would counter that while there may be specific places I want to travel during certain years -- I think the most important thing, most of the time, is to get away from the day-to-day and enjoy something other than work/routine life, which in theory could be done just about anywhere, even if its not your #1 pick -- though I be honest, it might become more frustrating if year after year none of my #1 choices could be made available.  Patience is a virtue, one I have, but one that can run out over time 



AwayWeGo said:


> One size might not fit all.  It's not only a matter of how many points it takes to get the reservations you want, it's also a matter of maintenance fees governed by the actual resort(s) where the points originate.  Also, multiple ownerships might possibly cost more in fees, other things being equal, just because the administrative component of what you pay will be multiplied by how many separate ownerships you have.



Given I am primarily looking at points from an exchange perceptive, short of pure cost savings, if even possible, is there any advantage to multiple ownerships (within the same TS network)?  It sounds like unless I wanted to buy points at a specific resort because I know I want to frequently vacation there, there is no other major advantages to multiple ownerships, unless it just comes out cheaper for some reason.  Am I missing something there?



AwayWeGo said:


> You typed a mouthful.  But the answer is no -- i.e., there's no easy way of doing that.  You've got to do the tedious, boring, painstaking research yourself of all the fees charged by all the thousands of timeshares out there.



Thanks for the straight answer -- at least I know it requires work and there are no easy shortest -- That being said, it appears most of the research I might need is hidden behind usernames/passwords at the various sites -- Looks like I can find some of that info here as well -- I assume the resort sites will become available, as will RCI, once I might that first purchase, correct?  If so, would it be wise to consider a dinky initial purchase to open that research up to me or do you think I can find enough here on TUG to make informed decisions?



AwayWeGo said:


> You got that right.  Most of the pro-perks & pro-VIP commentary I've seen looks mainly like retroactive attempts to justify unfortunate full-freight timeshare purchases.



So with your experiences, and looking into a crystal ball…  do you think things will continue to degrade, in terms of benefits, or do you think they will eventually get better, in terms of Wyndham ownership?  And I know, that will be purely an opinion 

Thanks again for your time, as well as the others, who have so quickly and patiently responded -- I cannot tell you how informative this small exchange has been so far… Definitely makes me feel more comfortable having a community to get insights and opinions from --  so much research to do before we start having fun 

Mike


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

Steve said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> Like you, I own a small company.  I have given several timeshare vacations to my employees.  It's a great perk, and they really enjoy it when they get one.  (None of my timeshares are owned by the company, however.  I own them all myself...but that's a corporate decision that you can make as to how you want to handle that.)
> 
> ...



Steve:

Thanks for the insights -- I was also considering WorldMark or possibly a mix of the two networks --  Searching eBay, it looks like WM is selling for a little more than Wyndham.  Any particular reason?  Supply/Demand, quality?

I understand that my first purchase drives me to RCI or II -- Am I correct that you can only have your points associated with one exchange or another?  And subsequent purchases into the same TS program goes to the same exchange the original is associated with?

Would you care to share some additional benefits or potential problems, choosing WM over Wyndham?  As I said, I may look at both, hadn't decided, but certainly am considering all options...

Thanks!

Mike


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

ronparise said:


> 1) 8) mf to me is the biggest factor to consider. the purchase is a one time cost you can amortize over years...mf is forever. The subject of mf in the Wyndham system is like the game of Chess..you can learn the rules in an hour, but to really understand whats going on may take longer.  The larger, newer, urban resorts tend to have the lower mf  Why? 1)costs are spread over a larger number of units, 2) the points per unit are more than at the older resorts 3) there are no grounds to maintain at urban locations 4) wyndham keeps costs down where they have an active sales force



I know I asked this earlier, with regards to any historical data, and I know research is required -- However, you make an interesting point about urban properties.  However, if the urban properties are still in sales mode, the MF will be subsidized lower by Wyndham, yes?  If that is the case, I assume there is no way to know what it might rise to down the road.  That being said, as MF change, read that, go up -- is part of the TS ownership experience that fact you will need to buy/sell throughout your TS experiences to maintain the overall MF costs at a manageable level?  I'm the type that will look at my year over year costs and relative change in cost -- if I see them rising at a rate greater than standard cost of living, I tend to start asking questions.  Thoughts?



> Fixed weeks that have been converted to points can have either very high  or very low mf, depending on the size of the unit and season of the week



I have see some references to PIC -- Am I correct that is the system that allows you to use a fixed week as both a week or as points?  If I purchase a fixed week, red/high, is there significant cost to convert it to points?  Is that a potential avenue I should consider or is it more work than it is worth?



> If I had it to do over Id buy at National Harbor, or San Francisco



Based on personal preferences or financial (lower MF)?



> 9) Wyndhams VIP benefits have real value the free guest certificates and discounts for reservations made within 60 days of check in can save some real money, but not nearly enough to justify paying developer prices



What can I expect a guest certificate to cost?  I assume these are what I will need if I wanted to give one of my employees a nice trip.


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## Steve (Jul 2, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Steve:
> 
> Thanks for the insights -- I was also considering WorldMark or possibly a mix of the two networks --  Searching eBay, it looks like WM is selling for a little more than Wyndham.  Any particular reason?  Supply/Demand, quality?
> 
> ...



Hi Mike,

There are several reasons that WorldMark credits sell for more than Wyndham on the resale market.  Here are a few key points about WorldMark:

1)  With WorldMark, you don't own at a specific resort.  You own credits which can be booked into *ANY* WorldMark resort on a first come, first served basis.  There is no exchange necessary if you stay within the system.  It's like booking a hotel.  It's also very easy to cancel and rebook.  I can't tell you what a huge advantage this is over Wyndham and most other timeshare systems.

2)  WorldMark is set up as a Mutual Benefit Association with some helpful bylaws.  One of the key features of this is that maintenance fees are capped and can only rise a small percentage per year.  This has kept the fees much lower than most other timeshare systems, including Wyndham.

3)  WorldMark allows you to exchange with RCI, II, or both.  You're not locked into either exchange company.  This is another huge advantage over Wyndham.  Many of the best timeshares only exchange through II, yet others such as Disney and Hilton only exchange through RCI.  It's really nice to have access to both.

4)  WorldMark allows you to rent credits from other owners, deposit them into your account, and then reserve or trade them as if they were your own with no restrictions.  This is another HUGE benefit of WorldMark.  It's easy to rent credits for less than the maintenance fees.  This allows you to start with a very small purchase (such as 6000 credits) and potenitally book multiple weeks and exchanges without any addtional ownership risk or outlay.

5)  WorldMark resorts are not top quality.  They are clean and well kept, but they are very middle-of-the-road when it comes to decor, amenities, swimming pools, etc.  However, they are decent and much nicer than the hotels that most people stay at for their vacations.  Plus, WorldMark has surprisingly strong trade power.  As I stated previously, WorldMark will trade into much more luxurious places such as Marriotts, Hiltons, Hyatts, and even the Four Seasons.

Personally, I think that you can't go wrong with WorldMark given your situation.  It is so much easier to use and more flexible than almost any other point system.

Steve


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

Steve:

Thanks for the insights -- I can tell you are a big fan of WM and testimonial reviews are often some of the best.

Have you ever owner Wyndham or any other TS system, or have you always been WM?

Given all the great positives, would you mind sharing, even if trivial, maybe one or two of the negatives from your perspective, regarding WM?

Thanks again for all the great insights...

Mike


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## Steve (Jul 2, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Steve:
> 
> Thanks for the insights -- I can tell you are a big fan of WM and testimonial reviews are often some of the best.
> 
> ...



Hi Mike,

I kind of developed a hobby of buying and selling timeshares over the past 12 years.  As a result, I have owned 28 timeshares.  These have included numerous different developer systems, independents, etc.  It's been fun.  

At this point, I have settled on four timeshares that work really well for me.  These are:

Four Seasons Aviara
Four Seasons Scottsdale
Marriott
WorldMark

You asked about negatives, and you may be surprised to read this, but I'm not really a huge fan of the WorldMark resorts themselves.  They are fine, and there are several great locations particularly in the Pacific Northwest, but WorldMark resorts generally are not my favorites.  I like more luxurious resorts.  However, WorldMark cannot be beat from a cost/value perspective and also from a flexibility standpoint.  

For comparison, Wyndham resorts, while nicer than WorldMark, are also a step down from Marriott and a huge step down from Four Seasons.  So Wyndham is not top-of-the-line either, but you lose the flexibility of WorldMark and you pay far higher maintenance fees.

Steve


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 2, 2011)

*Luxury Vacation Accommodations At Motel 6 & Super 8 Rates.*




raptor78 said:


> So with your experiences, and looking into a crystal ball…  do you think things will continue to degrade, in terms of benefits, or do you think they will eventually get better, in terms of Wyndham ownership?  And I know, that will be purely an opinion


All I know or think I know about Wyndham timeshares I learned vicariously via TUG-BBS.  

Our only direct Wyndham experience came from getting the old hard-sell a couple of times (just for the freebies -- didn't buy) & from staying a week at Wyndham Cypress Palms 1 time on RCI exchange.  

We've also visited TUG friends a couple of times when they were staying at various Wyndham timeshares -- e.g., Bonnet Creek, Old Town Alexandria -- & thus we can testify that those resorts & their units look extremely nice. 

I have no crystal ball & no special insights into timeshares generally or Wyndham timeshares in particular.  Nevertheless, I stick by my advice to buy timeshares resale because nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight -- z_ero, zip, zilch, zorch, nil, null, nada, nothing, not anything_ -- nothing they sell at full freight is anywhere near worth the money.  

Our resale timeshares suit us just fine & we are happy with them.  Our outlay for them was so minimal that if they turned into a pumpkin overnight, we could simply shrug & move on. 

Our timeshare watchword is luxury vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.  So far, that's pretty much how it has worked out. 

Click here for the basics of our personal timeshare story (although the story has not been updated since before we deeded back our original dinky points timeshare & gave away another timeshare to a fellow TUG member).    

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

So with all the information that folks are sharing, here is what I am seeing so far...

I have an interest in looking into WM, but they hold their value a little better and as a result have a little more cost to jump in -- might not be a bad thing, just something I have to know.

That being said, I think I am going to continue to target Wyndham for the first purchase, just so I can get my feet wet and make sure I get a hang for this whole thing.

I am watching an auction on eBay, would love it if anyone would care to give me an assessment of their opinion, realizing some of the statements I have made above.  Realize, I am willing to make the purchase, but I also need the warm fuzzy that might come from either folks here saying - Stop Stupid - or - Not a bad one to look at...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wyndham-Glacier...Timeshares&hash=item19c6011ecf#ht_9233wt_1141

We vacation in the Dells once a year already - we were actually going to purchase a 4 night rental at this property from another individual for August 8-11 for $1000 -- looking at the auction, the rental is almost the cost of the purchase -- of course MF have to be factored in -- MF looked a little higher than other properties -- I have heard, buy where you want to stay -- but with points, I wonder if focusing on the lower MF of other properties is better, dunno...  What do you all think of this listing -- feedback will help me either make the leap, stop short, and if stopping short, help me reassess the factors I use to make a decision...

Thanks again for everyones help..  Hope you are enjoying the holiday in a nice TS somewhere 

Mike


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## Passepartout (Jul 2, 2011)

I was all wet about my thinking that this might be an affordable TS. I would advise this newbie to avoid this one and go for a smaller package of points. $7,000 a year is waaay too much to consider 'getting one's feet wet'.

To the subsequent posters who quoted me, I apologize for thinking this 1,173k was a typo. Please modify my quote.


Jim Ricks


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 2, 2011)

*http://tinyurl.com/3qvedsu*




Passepartout said:


> 173k seems like about an entry level for one week at a good- though not  'top' resort.


By me, 1*,*173*,*000 Points/Year = 1*,*173k.

Just saying. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ampaholic (Jul 2, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> I probably only know enough about Wyndham to spell it correctly, but from the little I know, you could pay less for MF, but not a huge amount less. This looks like just under $50/mo and would give you a nice resort within driving distance to call a home resort. 173k seems like about an entry level for one week at a good- though not  'top' resort.
> 
> You could do worse. imo.
> 
> ...



*Almost $7000 in MF's* :hysterical: 

I pay 1/3 that and I am getting 10 or 12 quality weeks per year (with some clever trading IIDSSMS) 

You should be able to vacation half the year on 1,173K Wyndham points.


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## Passepartout (Jul 2, 2011)

I stand corrected. Please see my post up thread a couple of posts.

Jim


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> *Almost $7000 in MF's* :hysterical:
> 
> I pay 1/3 that and I am getting 10 or 12 quality weeks per year (with some clever trading IIDSSMS)
> 
> You should be able to vacation half the year on 1,173K Wyndham points.



Certainly understand what you are saying, and that is why I asked --
Correct me if I'm wrong, it kinda hard to be scammed on MF, since they are charged by the resort, yes?
That being said, obviously, there is a range of MF prices out there...  Somewhere on this board I read that an average was about $5/1K - the listing I indicated comes out to $5.95/1K -- so higher than what has been reported to be as an average...

What I'd be interested in hearing from you or others -- if I am looking at a point allotment in this range, what level of MF should I market for -- Realizing if you look at my above comments, I am primarily interested in using different properties (not necessarily external exchanges, though a plus) so home resort isn't quite as important, though I know it has some advantages...

Thanks!

Mike


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## Rent_Share (Jul 2, 2011)

Originally Posted by *raptor78* 

 
_Are the $1.00 auctions with eBay scam, too good to be true, a heck of a bargain?_



The scam is the devveloper selling something worth a dollar the the moment you walk off the sales room for Tens of thousands of dollars

As to the scam on the MF - unchecked increaqsed passed on to the ownebers

Including the cost of non paid MF's  . . . by deadbeat owners


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2011)

look at these to compare mf

national harbor

San Francisco

Bonnet Creek


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## ampaholic (Jul 2, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Certainly understand what you are saying, and that is why I asked --
> Correct me if I'm wrong, it kinda hard to be scammed on MF, since they are charged by the resort, yes?
> That being said, obviously, there is a range of MF prices out there...  Somewhere on this board I read that an average was about $5/1K - the listing I indicated comes out to $5.95/1K -- so higher than what has been reported to be as an average...
> 
> ...



I haven't seen many Glacier Canyon on eBay - this _may_ be as well as you can do as far as MF per $ goes. Wyndham Resorts are all over the map on that and there seems to be no rhyme of reason.

Search the completed listings to see if there are many (or any) is about the only research you can do - have you been zeroed in the this resort for awhile on ebay?

Well, with a million plus points you could reserve the presidential sweet (pun intended) 2 times a year and a one bedroom for the kids.

Go to http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory0910/ page 187 to see how you could use the points - then flick the pages to see where else you could go.

Then go to http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128302 to learn about Club Wyndham.

If you can justify $500 plus a month in MF's and this gives you the vacation profile you want - go for it.

I have purchased 6 Tshares on eBay and am happy with all of them and with the process - and to answer one of your questions - the MF's go directly to the resort so no worry about being scammed there. I looked over your listing mentioned and I wouldn't be worried to bid --- if it fit my "desired vacation profile".


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## chriskre (Jul 2, 2011)

Mike,
Just want to throw another option out there you might not have looked into.  Bluegreen points may work for you better than Wyndham points.  Wyndham is a great system for your own personal use, but when you are talking about buying vacations for others they are going to hit you with Housekeeping fees and $99 guest certificate fees everytime you book something.  It's especially inefficient if you plan on doing short stays.  It's much better for week long vacations.  If money is no object, then by all means go with Wyndham as I'm sure your employees will really enjoy Wyndham stays.  

With Bluegreen you don't pay those guest fees or reservation fees.  I don't own Bluegreen but have stayed at many of their resorts.  Well I don't own a BG yet, but am in the process of buying one right now in Wisconsin Dells.  BG trades in both II, RCI, SFX, Platinum Interchange as well as internally.  You could also rent weeks if you for some reason needed to do that without paying any guest fees.    

I highly suggest that you read the Wyndham primer here but disregard any mention of 28K or 70K deposits as those are history, as Wyndham now uses a crossover grid.  You might also want to join the Wyndham owners forum for free and really study what you are getting yourself into.  www.wyndhamowners.org.


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

ronparise said:


> look at these to compare mf
> 
> national harbor
> 
> ...



I'm ahead of you already   I had already checked all three and of course BC is the the highest --  And as I understand it, in the points system, unless I have a strong preference to staying at BC every year, there is little difference whether I home resort there or at National, with a very low MF of only around $3.99/1K vs the $6.36/1K at BC


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## raptor78 (Jul 2, 2011)

chriskre said:


> Mike,
> Just want to throw another option out there you might not have looked into.  Bluegreen points may work for you better than Wyndham points.  Wyndham is a great system for your own personal use, but when you are talking about buying vacations for others they are going to hit you with Housekeeping fees and $99 guest certificate fees everytime you book something.  It's especially inefficient if you plan on doing short stays.  It's much better for week long vacations.  If money is no object, then by all means go with Wyndham as I'm sure your employees will really enjoy Wyndham stays.
> 
> With Bluegreen you don't pay those guest fees or reservation fees.  I don't own Bluegreen but have stayed at many of their resorts.  Well I don't own a BG yet, but am in the process of buying one right now in Wisconsin Dells.  BG trades in both II, RCI, SFX, Platinum Interchange as well as internally.  You could also rent weeks if you for some reason needed to do that without paying any guest fees.
> ...



While I have no problem staying within the "network" if you will -- if I choose to buy BG and use RCI for exchanges, when we reference this new elusive TPU, any idea where TPU properties stand or is it across the board?

Thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look into those as well...


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## ampaholic (Jul 2, 2011)

*a different take?*

An example using two different systems to get the same thing

Wyndham at Waikiki Beach Walk - week 8 - a two bedroom 2 bath:

*Club Wyndham points required* = 288,000 = over $1200 in MF no matter where you buy - some places $1500 to even $2000 (such as Bonnet creek)

*RCI Points required* = 77,000 = $700 to $850 in MF depending on your "get in" price for points.

To me saving $300 to $500 per week reserved is a no brainer.

But that's just me


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 3, 2011)

ronparise said:


> look at these to compare mf
> 
> national harbor
> 
> ...




National Harbor makes me nervous...i can only find 3yrs of previous MF's so, my uneducated guess is that they are still in developer sales...Wyndham has a history of holding MF's to an unnaturally low level during sales...then it jumps up...now i don't know if that will or will not happen with National Harbor...but it makes me nervous...I personally prefer more....aged....resorts...of course with those there is a higher probability of Special Assessements


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## ronparise (Jul 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> National Harbor makes me nervous...i can only find 3yrs of previous MF's so, my uneducated guess is that they are still in developer sales...Wyndham has a history of holding MF's to an unnaturally low level during sales...then it jumps up...now i don't know if that will or will not happen with National Harbor...but it makes me nervous...I personally prefer more....aged....resorts...of course with those there is a higher probability of Special Assessements



All three of these have active sales forces...Sure these numbers will probably go up, but Im guessing..lowest now..lowest in the future

There is another wrinkle to National Harbor that may serve to keep fees lower here and that is, National Harbor is not a Wyndham property 

 Wyndham has a building at National Harbor, but there are several hotels, several condominium communities, lots of shopping, a marina, shops and restaurants. I dont know how all this is organized, but I bet a lot of the maintenance fee from your Wyndham timeshare flows right through to a "master association" responsible for the grounds, roads, lighting, security and the other expenses common to the whole place

Now this extra level of management may serve to make fees higher, (certainly someone is making a profit running this place,)  but I dont think so. I think management of timeshare properties is a major profit center for Wyndham (also Marriott, Disney, BlueGreen and all the others) In fact , if we owners are getting screwed at resorts with developer controlled boards, this is why....Taking some of that control away from them can only be a good thing


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## Rent_Share (Jul 3, 2011)

As to an "Employee Benefit"

I suppose if these are held personally the value would be considered a "gift" from one individual to another, if held by the corporation it would be taxable and the "value of the free trip" would need to be added to their taxable income, a gift that keep on giving.


"Free Vacations" 

Over the years I racked up a boat load of of frequent flyer points and hotel points resulting in free vacations for the family to NYC, Orlando, Maui Cancun and Washington DC, Although in most cases the Transportation and Hotel were paid for, In many cases we ended up selecting destinations that the ancillary costs were beyond our budget.

I have two Southwest Ticket that are going to expire and I have already paid cash to extend them for a year, faced with the option of using or loosing, or investing additional cash I booked a trip for my wife and daughter to Orlando using the tickets and a 2 Bedroom flexchange through II.  That being the case I know the "current cost" of using my free airfare and deeply discounted lodging . . .

Using your Orlando "benefit"  Bought in advance you can expect to pay about $ 75 a head X 4 x 4 Days or $ 1,200 for Theme Park Tickets, just priced a rental car for Orlando and $275 -325 seems to be the market.  So the "free vacation" has just cost $ 1,500 and they haven't bought a T-Shirt or a Coke . . .  .


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## timeos2 (Jul 3, 2011)

ronparise said:


> look at these to compare mf
> 
> national harbor
> 
> ...



All of these are either still in or just recently left full blown sales mode. MF when they are in that status is heavily subsidized & thus cannot be dpended on after the subsidy ends. IMO you are better of with a decade old resort as the home as it will have a good history of costs & maintenance level (are they getting enough reserves to avoid a SA or have they already had one to get things right?).  If you ever plan on a DVC request via trade then BC is out due to the regional block nonsense.  

As for WM vs Wyndham as the OP is in the East Wyndham has far more locations there and it's inexpensive.  Seems like a near perfect fit for the stated use. I'd go 170-220K annual points on resale as a good number. With proper pooling, banking & borrowing that should et virtually anything you wanted.


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2011)

*a different take? part duex*

Another example:

Prime week 26 at Vintage Landing Condominiums (Lake of the Ozarks):

1 bedroom deluxe:

*Club Wyndham Points required* = 105,000 = *$700 - $1000* in MF's

*RCI Points required* = 46,000 = *$338* (Grandview LV) - *$488 *(Fox Hills WI)

*RCI Points are a less expensive way to vacation at Wyndham Resorts than Wyndham Points.*


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## Steve (Jul 3, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> As for WM vs Wyndham as the OP is in the East Wyndham has far more locations there and it's inexpensive.  Seems like a near perfect fit for the stated use.



I think the OP is going to choose Wyndham over WorldMark which is certainly cool, but *since when was Kansas*...Mike's location...*the East**?* 

In fact, WorldMark has more locations than Wyndham within an easy-to-moderate drive from Kansas.  Here is a list of them:

WorldMark at Branson (MO)
WorldMark at Lake of the Ozarks (MO)
WorldMark at Grand Lake (OK)
WorldMark at New Braunfels (TX)
WorldMark at Galena (IL)
WorldMark at Estes Park (CO)
WorldMark at Steamboat Springs (CO)
WorldMark at Red River (NM)
WorldMark at Santa Fe (NM)
WorldMark at Taos (NM)

Steve


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## raptor78 (Jul 3, 2011)

Steve said:


> I think the OP is going to choose Wyndham over WorldMark which is certainly cool, but *since when was Kansas*...Mike's location...*the East**?*
> 
> In fact, WorldMark has more locations than Wyndham within an easy-to-moderate drive from Kansas.  Here is a list of them:
> 
> ...



Actually, to be fair to all posts --  My leaning is towards a Wyndham first, just to get started -- I have a great interest in WM, but I think I need to shop a lot more to insure I can get the best purchase prices for these, since the pricing runs a wider range than Wyndham's do -- I am also looking at BG, though I am still learning a lot on this front, so I am unsure how soon I will aggressively make my first purchase there...

I work to travel -- everything I do focuses on my ability to enjoy my downtime with family, so while I am definitely a newbie in the TS front, I expect that learning curve to go away as TS, in one form or another, will likely remain part of both my and my families' lives.

Of course, being smart and not rushing is equally important -- but all the wonderful information on the multiple systems is quite valuable and will be utilized in due time.  Part of life is variety and I am quickly thinking variety within the TS systems, both in different resorts and different systems, makes for a more well-rounded and enjoyable experience.

And no -- Kansas is not East   We enjoy the best of all worlds, central, east and west 

Mike


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## raptor78 (Jul 3, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> Another example:
> 
> Prime week 26 at Vintage Landing Condominiums (Lake of the Ozarks):
> 
> ...



RCI Points are still tied to a home resort, yes?  I suspect the same policies would exist as any other of the systems -- staying within the RCI owned properties would not be difficult, but staying external of the RCI properties would incur exchange fees?  Correct?


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## timeos2 (Jul 3, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> RCI Points are still tied to a home resort, yes?  I suspect the same policies would exist as any other of the systems -- staying within the RCI owned properties would not be difficult, but staying external of the RCI properties would incur exchange fees?  Correct?



And unlike Wyndham (or WM) there are no free "internal" use/trades. Every use requires a trade fee. 

I like RCI Points but they are not the value that Wyndham offers with so many internal system resorts (and great ones - many in unique locations) to pick from at n/c.  Plus the free (included in the annual fees) RCI Weeks membership also saves you and gets you access to many more resorts.


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2011)

*beg to differ*



timeos2 said:


> And unlike Wyndham (or WM) there are no free "internal" use/trades. Every use requires a trade fee.
> 
> I like RCI Points but they are not the value that Wyndham offers with so many internal system resorts (and great ones - many in unique locations) to pick from at n/c.  Plus the free (included in the annual fees) RCI Weeks membership also saves you and gets you access to many more resorts.



I just confirmed two weeks at Fox Hills (WI) and since I am an owner there was zero (zilch, zip, nada) fee. I could reserve 20 weeks there over the year and none would cost a dime unless I included a guest fee ($59).

Most other "owned" resorts are $40 booking fee - so the booking/guest combo would be the same as Wyndham - $99. 

At all "points" resorts I don't own there is a $59 - $139 booking fee.

-----

Don't Wyndham points incur a booking fee booking into WM? 

---- bottom line ---- I think the only real advantage with Wyndham points is "non guest" booking within the home group (Wyndham/Fairfield) - otherwise the fees a fairly similar.


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2011)

Also three of the five RCI Points Tshares I have purchased included a year of RCI Points membership in the seller paid closing costs.

So I have three years of RCI Points (and an underlying weeks) account for free.

Can't beat free?


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## raptor78 (Jul 3, 2011)

Another question, as I am checking some of the ads out -- If a week has been converted to have the option of points, I understand there is a fee involved, $2500-$3000 range...  Is this a one-time cost?

In other words, if I am looking at resales where the seller has converted the week to include the point option, are there any additional annual expenses associated or was it a one-time expense that the seller incurred?

Mike


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2011)

The cost of the conversion varies from as low as $699 to several thousand.

*You want to buy a week already converted* to RCI Point as the one time conversion fee will have been paid by the previous owner  

This is the same with Wyndham Points as well. There are "Wyndham" weeks that are just that - fixed weeks. 

Many people are just fine with fixed weeks only in their portfolio.


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## ampaholic (Jul 3, 2011)

*Just checking*

Hey Mike 

Have you vacationed in timeshares very often? Conventional wisdom here on TUG is that a new Tsharer should rent a few vacations before plunging into the deep end of the pool. 

$7000 per year is the deep end.


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## yoohoo (Jul 3, 2011)

There is board for Wyndham owners that will give you a more in depth view of the Wyndham system.  You should be able to find them if you google Wyndham Resorts Forums.  There is a spreadsheet with historical MF going years so that you see how MF are trending.  It has not been updated for 2011 yet. You should be able to find it in the maintenance forum on that board.  I believe Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe, and Smoky Mountains are in the lower range of MF.  A note able this spreadsheet is that property taxes for resorts in Florida do have MF included in MF since they are paid separately by the owner.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 3, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Actually, to be fair to all posts -- My leaning is towards a Wyndham first, just to get started -- I have a great interest in WM, but I think I need to shop a lot more to insure I can get the best purchase prices for these, since the pricing runs a wider range than Wyndham's do --


 

With Worldmark you can start with 5 o r 6 thousand points and rent (currently at or below maintenance fees) as many points as you need without a concern for an exit strategy except the initial purchase.

With Wyndham you must either rent the reservation from another owner or purchase the contract, initiating an "endless obligation until transferred


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## raptor78 (Jul 3, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> Hey Mike
> 
> Have you vacationed in timeshares very often? Conventional wisdom here on TUG is that a new Tsharer should rent a few vacations before plunging into the deep end of the pool.
> 
> $7000 per year is the deep end.



I've stayed in several properties over the past couple years -- but to be honest, when I was staying I was renting, for vacation purposes.  I wasn't evaluating it from an investment perspective, mainly as I wanted to avoid the "sales pitch" form asking too many questions while staying at properties...

I let the Glacier Canyon property go, didn't pursue it further -- while GC would be a property I'd want to vacation frequently, the MF is higher than I want for the small APR advantage...  Evaluating other properties with lower MF, while monitoring WM...

In a realistic sense, I would like to feel comfortable enough to purchase by end of summer, early fall -- if a smoking hot deal comes along sooner, then possibly sooner, but I am in "lurker" mode at the moment, asking hundreds of questions and insuring I am getting the best information before "plunging"

Mike


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## sue1947 (Jul 3, 2011)

Another vote for Worldmark:
  I think you are fixated on the $1 ebay fee and aren't looking at the long term costs including guest fees etc.  The ability to rent credits from other owners makes Worldmark a cheaper option.
  Example:  If you buy a 6000 account (the lowest usually available), you will pay around $2400 up front, but then the maintenance fees are about $500 per year.  The increase is fixed at a maximum of 5%/year which keeps them from rising as much as other systems.  You can then rent (at 5-6 cents per credit) as many credits as you want from other owners.  It's a very easy process.  This allows you to get your feet wet with a low longterm cost.  In other words, that $2400 up front fee will probably be covered by the higher maintenance fees and guest certificates at Wyndham fairly quickly.
  The Worldmark resorts in the Midwest are under-utilized which means you will have a greater avaiability on short notice which translates to much more flexibility.  These resorts frequently show up on Inventory Specials which means you can book for cash rather than credits at 5 cents per credit.  So a 1 BR would be $400 for the week.  I checked availability at Galena, Lake of the Ozarks and Grand Lake and there's lots of units available now for August.  Which means you would also be able to use Bonus Time which is 5 cents per credit for whatever is available at 2 weeks out.   
 For your location and your situation (booking for others), I think Worldmark beats Wyndham hands down.  

For the best info on Worldmark, check out wmowners.com.


Sue


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## bjones9942 (Jul 4, 2011)

You should also be watchful for mandatory all-inclusive (AI) resorts.  These are the resorts that charge fees to eat/drink at that resort.  I would ask about possible upcoming special assessments as well, especially if you are looking at purchasing in an older resort.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 4, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> Actually, to be fair to all posts -- My leaning is towards a Wyndham first, just to get started -- I have a great interest in WM, but I think I need to shop a lot more to insure I can get the best purchase prices for these, since the pricing runs a wider range than Wyndham's do --


 


Rent_Share said:


> With Worldmark you can start with 5 o r 6 thousand points and rent (currently at or below maintenance fees) as many points as you need without a concern for an exit strategy except the initial purchase.
> 
> With Wyndham you must either rent the reservation from another owner or purchase the contract, initiating an "endless obligation until transferred


 
NEW Comment


Internal WM Booking - Using 10,000 - (Notwithstanding Anaheim, San Diego and New Mexico)


Rental cost $ 600 + HK Token $60 Points Must be in your account Prior to booking)Note: If you end up with too many points, you can always rent them back to another owner, there are no transaction costs, unless you use pay-pal.​ 
​Request First or Exchange outside of "Flexchange" (I belong to II, feel free to correct me if my RCI information is Incorrect)

10,000 Credits $ 769 - $ 799  + Guest Certificate Fee

Rented @ 6 cents $ 600 + Houskeeping $ 60 + Exchange Fee $139 II/$179 RCI [Can be rented after reservation is confirmed due to the lag time in deducting the credits from the WM account (at least with II)​Short Term Exchange (45 Days RCI - 59 Days II) 

4000 Credits $439 - $ 469 + Guest Certificate Fee

Rented @ 6 cents $ 240 + Houskeeping $ 60 + Exchange Fee $139 II/$179 RCI [Can be rented after reservation is confirmed due to the lag time in deducting the credits from the WM account (at least with II)​Ownership (any) and membership in either exchange company would allow company would also allow access to their rental pools with no on-going maintenance fees or concerns for an exit strategy with ongoing multiple maintenance fees. There would be a fee for a guest certificate

TWO FACTORS TO ALSO CONSIDER - As to Rentals and Flexchanges -  It may be difficult when there are other family members to consider to adjust their commitments to take advantage of the short term booking associated with the lower cost options  and CONVERSLY many people can't or won't plan vacation travel 12 + Months 

YMMV


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## hemrab1 (Jul 4, 2011)

*Nat'l Harbor review*

I stayed at Wyndham Nat'l Harbor for one night 15 months ago just after it opened.  Maintenance fee is low because of Prince George's County low real estate tax.  Resort is in the middle of nowhere, car is a necessity. Parking is $10/day, no street parking.   Nearest supermarket is miles away in Virginia!  Restaurants and tourist shops are very expensive.  There is a boat to Alexandria, VA and perhaps DC, but doesn't run in rough weather.  Last departure from VA is 10:00 p.m.  Don't miss the boat!

My two bedroom unit was gorgeous, but had a parking garage and Gaylord Hotel view.  An outlet mall is supposed to be built at Nat'l Harbor soon.


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## raptor78 (Jul 5, 2011)

My latest efforts to getting my feet wet 

I have been watching two listings all weekend on eBay -- one for Myrtle Beach, 512K points, annual -- about $4.74/1K on MF -- had a listing price of about $285 and I set my limit at $900 -- unfortunately, went for $1900 in last minute of auction...

Second listing was for 700K points, annual at National Harbor -- have been watching it sit at $1800 for nearly a day, was willing to go to about $2000 for it -- MF were about $3.99/1K -- last minutes of auction, went all the way to $6500

The good news, I know what my limits are are I am sticking to them (has to be a plus)

The bad news, didn't grab either, though I am sure they will come back up eventually...

Based on the closing prices and the MF/locations, what do you think of the prices -- did they go to high, did they go fair?  What about my relative target prices I set for maximum, out of line, in line, too high, too low?

Thanks -- hope everyone had a great fourth!

-Mike


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## timeos2 (Jul 5, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> My latest efforts to getting my feet wet
> 
> I have been watching two listings all weekend on eBay -- one for Myrtle Beach, 512K points, annual -- about $4.74/1K on MF -- had a listing price of about $285 and I set my limit at $900 -- unfortunately, went for $1900 in last minute of auction...
> 
> ...



Your prices are fine. Those sellers got very lucky that people were willing to bid them up that high - not very common right now but actually very good to see.  That doesn't mean there aren't/won't be more deals at your price points but you may have to find a 1/2 dozen offers to bid on to get it. Hang in there and keep trying. ($6500 is more than most Marriott's - except some of the top 10% - sell for.  That is very rare for any timeshare but especially Wyndham in the current market. Maybe its a sign of a small but much needed recovery.  We can hope)


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## ampaholic (Jul 5, 2011)

*keep at it*

I was bidding on a certain amp from a refurbish company - they were listing 3 or 4 of the same model (refurbished with 1 year warrantee) every week. They did so for several months and then moved to a different model.

I would bid the same amount (my fairly low limit) on each auction. I got outbid 20 or so times until I finally won - then I won three. 

I only needed one so I sold the other two at a profit.


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## mjhines (Jul 11, 2011)

raptor78 said:


> I know I asked this earlier, with regards to any historical data, and I know research is required -- However, you make an interesting point about urban properties.  However, if the urban properties are still in sales mode, the MF will be subsidized lower by Wyndham, yes?  If that is the case, I assume there is no way to know what it might rise to down the road.  That being said, as MF change, read that, go up -- is part of the TS ownership experience that fact you will need to buy/sell throughout your TS experiences to maintain the overall MF costs at a manageable level?  I'm the type that will look at my year over year costs and relative change in cost -- if I see them rising at a rate greater than standard cost of living, I tend to start asking questions.  Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> I have see some references to PIC -- Am I correct that is the system that allows you to use a fixed week as both a week or as points? If I purchase a fixed week, red/high, is there significant cost to convert it to points? Is that a potential avenue I should consider or is it more work than it is worth?


 
I have been with Wyndham for over a decade; it was Fairfield Resorts then. At that time, the PIC Plus program was a sort of gimmicky way to add points to your total by "committing" non-Wyndham resort weeks to Wyndham and getting points assigned to each. There was/is a process you must go through to do it and it must be done "ahead of time". We've never used the program but the potential points "counted" toward VIP status even so (not worth it as you've no doubt become aware). There have been a number of times when it was rumored that Wyndham was going to cancel the program anyway; so far hasn't happened, but PIC Plus seems attached and as useful as our appendix. BTW: there is an annual charge for "listing" the resort(s) in the program. Our opinion: not worth it.
Mike


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