# Marriott v. HGVC



## izzykool (Apr 16, 2012)

How do you think Marriott's Vacation Ownership program stacks up v. HGVC?

I'm enjoying HGVC but Marriott seems to have more TS properties in more locations.  

They use Marriott rewards similar to how HGVC uses HH.  But the point system for Marriott doesn't seem to be as demanding as HH.  You earn pts. at close to the same rate, but you can stay at a Fairfield or Townplace Suites for as little as 10K rewards points, where as a stay at a comparable Hampton my cost 20k-25k pts. 

And they don't seem to nickel and dime you for every transaction requested. 

What are some pros and cons based on your experience if you are familiar with both programs?

Looking forward to your feedback.


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## yumdrey (Apr 16, 2012)

izzykool said:


> How do you think Marriott's Vacation Ownership program stacks up v. HGVC?
> 
> I'm enjoying HGVC but Marriott seems to have more TS properties in more locations.
> 
> ...



Marriott doesn't honor resale week owners like Hilton does.
Hilton lets resale week owners convert their weeks to HHonors, but Marriott doesn't.
Hilton is a pure point system with lots of flexibility, but Marriott is a traditional week system unless you buy points from Marriott (developer) since 6/20/10.
Marriott vacation club spun off from Marriott hotel brand last year and we don't know what the future will be at this moment. We need 3-5 more years to understand about exchange capability and resale market.
Resale market already fell next to nothing.
Hilton's resale market went up because developer exercised ROFR for low purchase prices. Hilton still holds the highest market value for resale market.
I own 7 Marriott weeks (all platinum weeks) and 4 Hilton (all platinum) weeks.
go figure.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 16, 2012)

Like the above poster, we own both HGVC and Marriott. 

Marriott treats resale purchasers like dirt
HGVC puts resale purchasers on more equal footing with retail purchasers

Neither HHonors or Marriott Rewards are worth the time of day as far as I'm concerned. Poor value in almost every case when MF to value of rewards or honors points is taken into consideration. 

Marriott has a larger portfolio of resorts and locations.

Marriott's MF's tend to be higher then HGVC

HGVC's point system is mature while Marriott's Destination Club is in it's infancy.

I find it easier to book with HGVC than with Marriott's point system.

Marriott is a more convoluted system with weeks owners who are not members of their Destinations Club (nickel and dimed for virtually every transaction), weeks owners who are members of the Destination Club (one fee for everything but, the fee is $169 or $199/year depending on level of membership), weeks owners who convert their weeks (may elect this option yearly) to Destination Club points and trust based owners who own points but do not own a deeded week. This convoluted system makes it both more difficult to understand and more difficult to use than HGVC's straight forward points overlay system.

Marriott no longer has seasons if reserving with Destination Club points. The points can vary from week to week rather than HGVC's method of season to season. 

Overall I much prefer HGVC's points reservation system but, Marriott has the locations and resorts. We own both becasue both have different advantages. We own HGVC to travel to Hawaii and Vegas for varying numbers of nights. We own Marriott for the variety of locations they offer. If Marriott's points system were identical to HGVC's system, we wouldn't own HGVC. If HGVC had the variety of resort locations offered by Marriott, we wouldn't own Marriott.

In the final annalysis, we travel more using our Marriott weeks than we do using our HGVC points. That's because Marriott has the greater variety of locations. We prefer variety to returning to the same resorts or same resort destinations every year.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 16, 2012)

*HGVC versus Marriott for Locations*



dougp26364 said:


> Like the above poster, we own both HGVC and Marriott.
> 
> Marriott treats resale purchasers like dirt
> HGVC puts resale purchasers on more equal footing with retail purchasers
> ...



I agree with you about the Marriott Timeshare system having in more different resort areas than the Hilton timeshare system.  However, as people in real estate say what is important is location, location, location, and Marriott's are not in the precise best location in the resort areas where Hilton's are .  The following are examples:  Marriott Ko'Olina is in the middle of no where where the Hilton Hawaiian Village is right in the nicest part of Waikiki.  Marriott Doval in Miami is in the middle of no where where the Hilton South Beach is on Ocean Drive.  The Marriott in Las Vegas is near but not on the strip while some of the Hilton Vegas timeshares are not right in the middle of the strip the Flamingo and Planet Hollywood are certainly in the middle of everything.  If you care about walkability, and we value it very highly, the Hilton's in these locations are priceless timeshares.  If you are getting a car which is expensive, a drunk driving trap and stressful, you can love the Marriott's and drive to the party.


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## brigechols (Apr 16, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with you about the Marriott Timeshare system having in more different resort areas than the Hilton timeshare system.  However, as people in real estate say what is important is location, location, location, and Marriott's are not in the precise best location in the resort areas where Hilton's are .  The following are examples:  Marriott Ko'Olina is in the middle of no where where the Hilton Hawaiian Village is right in the nicest part of Waikiki.  Marriott Doval in Miami is in the middle of no where where the Hilton South Beach is on Ocean Drive.  The Marriott in Las Vegas is near but not on the strip while some of the Hilton Vegas timeshares are not right in the middle of the strip the Flamingo and Planet Hollywood are certainly in the middle of everything.  If you care about walkability, and we value it very highly, the Hilton's in these locations are priceless timeshares.  If you are getting a car which is expensive, a drunk driving trap and stressful, you can love the Marriott's and drive to the party.



Yes, Marriott Ko'Olina is in the middle of nowhere near Disney's Aulani resort but the Marriott in Las Vegas is across the street from Elara (formerly known as Planet Hollywood). I purchased Marriott for the locations and quality associated with the brand. When making the decision to buy into a different system, I looked at HGVC and Worldmark. I preferred the Worldmark locations, low buy-in and maintenance fees, and point flexibility.


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## bastroum (Apr 16, 2012)

I own in both systems. They both have their strong points as stated previously. However, HGVC points are more flexible, since you cannot enroll Marriott weeks purchased after 6/20/10 in their point system. Also you can pick up Marriott weeks very cheaply (ie: White Season @ Desert Springs). HGVC points seem to be more expensive.


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

While we're on the subject, how does Hyatt stack up with these two?


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## Ron98GT (Apr 16, 2012)

yumdrey said:


> Marriott doesn't honor resale week owners like Hilton does.
> Hilton lets resale week owners convert their weeks to HHonors, but Marriott doesn't.
> Hilton is a pure point system with lots of flexibility, but Marriott is a traditional week system unless you buy points from Marriott (developer) since 6/20/10.
> Marriott vacation club spun off from Marriott hotel brand last year and we don't know what the future will be at this moment. We need 3-5 more years to understand about exchange capability and resale market.
> ...



Are you sure about this is one?


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## Ron98GT (Apr 16, 2012)

*Location - Location*



Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with you about the Marriott Timeshare system having in more different resort areas than the Hilton timeshare system.  However, as people in real estate say what is important is location, location, location, and Marriott's are not in the precise best location in the resort areas where Hilton's are .  The following are examples:  Marriott Ko'Olina is in the middle of no where where the Hilton Hawaiian Village is right in the nicest part of Waikiki.  Marriott Doval in Miami is in the middle of no where where the Hilton South Beach is on Ocean Drive.  The Marriott in Las Vegas is near but not on the strip while some of the Hilton Vegas timeshares are not right in the middle of the strip the Flamingo and Planet Hollywood are certainly in the middle of everything.  If you care about walkability, and we value it very highly, the Hilton's in these locations are priceless timeshares.  If you are getting a car which is expensive, a drunk driving trap and stressful, you can love the Marriott's and drive to the party.



Marriott non-mainland locations is one reason I picked MVC.    Although I like Hilton Hawaiian Village & HGVC a lot (see list of upcoming trips), at least Marriott Ko'Olina is on Oahu.  

Unlike HGVC (they are also on Hawaii & Scotland), MVC is on/in Maui and Kauai, along with St. Thomas, Aruba, Spain, Paris, Phuket, and St. Kitts.  If/when I buy another TS, it will be a HGVC, but for now Marriott won out.


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> Are you sure about this is one?



Yes. HGVC members may convert their HGVC points into HH points. Doesn't matter how it's bought.

If one were considering Marriott, what is the lowest MF location of the bunch?


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## Ron98GT (Apr 16, 2012)

Remy said:


> Yes. HGVC members may convert their HGVC points into HH points. Doesn't matter how it's bought.


Wish I could do the same with my Marriott, I'd luv to stay at the Marriott hotel in Rome.


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> Wish I could do the same with my Marriott, I'd luv to stay at the Marriott hotel in Rome.



Regardless of how it's bought, the conversion isn't very attractive or conducive to a full vacation stay at a Hilton hotel. Others have done it, but I've never found the math in my favor to convert HGVC points to HH points. I'd rather use them in HGVC or RCI.


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## pianodinosaur (Apr 16, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> Like the above poster, we own both HGVC and Marriott.
> 
> Marriott treats resale purchasers like dirt
> HGVC puts resale purchasers on more equal footing with retail purchasers
> ...



I agree with much of what you said.  I would also agree with others that converting HGVC points to HHonors points is usually not a very good idea unless you want to stay at a very posh hotel in Europe and you do not have enough HHonors points at the time.   However, I think HHonors and Marriott rewards are both good programs.  We have used our Marriott Rewards Visa and our Hilton AmEx to accumulate points.  We have had some excellent redemption vacations as a result.  I personally think HHonors is more user friendly and much more flexible.  HGVC is the tiger trader in RCI and we have had an excellent experience going around the world with HGVC as a result.  Cruising with HGVC is also very easy.  It may not be the best use of points but sometimes we would rather cruise than stay in a timeshare.  We went on a The Mariner of the Seas in January 2012 for a cruise out of Galveston using HGVC points  We will be going on The Coral Princess for a Panama Canal cruise in January 2013 using HGVC points.

There is no question that HGVC treats the resale owner much better than Marriott. We purchased MMVL resale in 2010.  That being said, DW and I had a wonderful vacation for our anniversary at MMVL in August 2011.  The staff was very helpful.  We will be going to the Royal Islander in June 2012 for an II exchange.  We anticipate going to Williamsburg about the time of our anniversary in 2013.


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## Talent312 (Apr 16, 2012)

"Hilton lets resale week owners convert their weeks to HHonors"

Not their "week" but rather, their points... next-year's points.
They post to their HH-account the first week in January.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 17, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with you about the Marriott Timeshare system having in more different resort areas than the Hilton timeshare system.  However, as people in real estate say what is important is location, location, location, and Marriott's are not in the precise best location in the resort areas where Hilton's are .  The following are examples:  Marriott Ko'Olina is in the middle of no where where the Hilton Hawaiian Village is right in the nicest part of Waikiki.  Marriott Doval in Miami is in the middle of no where where the Hilton South Beach is on Ocean Drive.  The Marriott in Las Vegas is near but not on the strip while some of the Hilton Vegas timeshares are not right in the middle of the strip the Flamingo and Planet Hollywood are certainly in the middle of everything.  If you care about walkability, and we value it very highly, the Hilton's in these locations are priceless timeshares.  If you are getting a car which is expensive, a drunk driving trap and stressful, you can love the Marriott's and drive to the party.




I don't think I'd toss Vegas out as HGVC having better locations. As mentioned, Elera is the same distance from the Strip as the Marriott. Ditto with the Flamingo property. HGVC LV Strip is a big swing and a miss as it stands now. HGVC on Karen might be lonely if the LVH, formerly the Las Vegas Hilton, goes under. 

Marriott is on Oahu, has 3 properties on Kaui including in Lihue and at Poipu Beach and has a prime location on Maui. HGVC keeps expanding an overcrowded HHV and has access to three properties on the big island. 

HGVC keeps building in the same three locations: Hawaii, Vegas and Orlando. The added NY but, that property seems to be somewhat exclusive. The recent addition of Myrtle Beach is nice but, it's a conversion and not a new build. Many of the HGVC properties are affiliates and not HGVC builds vs Marriott which are mostly purpose built.

HGVC has the better system IMO. Marriott has the better locations.


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## Remy (Apr 17, 2012)

With Marriott what's the calculation for owning in say, Branson, and using your ownership to go to Hawaii? Is that a straight across trade? Can you go for 10 nights using multiple years of usage in your home resort? Can I stay for 5 nights and have 2 left over for another stay? 

If only new retail owners can get into the new points program, how do they have enough inventory to satisfy their usage? Are resale owners banned for life from that program?


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 17, 2012)

*Location of the Marriott versus HGVC*



dougp26364 said:


> I don't think I'd toss Vegas out as HGVC having better locations. As mentioned, Elera is the same distance from the Strip as the Marriott. Ditto with the Flamingo property. HGVC LV Strip is a big swing and a miss as it stands now. HGVC on Karen might be lonely if the LVH, formerly the Las Vegas Hilton, goes under.
> 
> Marriott is on Oahu, has 3 properties on Kaui including in Lihue and at Poipu Beach and has a prime location on Maui. HGVC keeps expanding an overcrowded HHV and has access to three properties on the big island.
> 
> ...



It was my mistake that the Las Vegas Marriott is not on the strip.  However, the point I was trying to make was that the Hawaiian Village and South Beach Hilton Timeshares are in the precise location you want to be in without needing a car. They are very walkable.   The savings in rent a car, parking, gas, worry of damage not to mention drinking and driving stress makes these locations far superior to the Ko'Olina and Miami locations of the Marriotts.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 17, 2012)

Remy said:


> Yes. HGVC members may convert their HGVC points into HH points. Doesn't matter how it's bought.
> 
> If one were considering Marriott, what is the lowest MF location of the bunch?



Probably Branson, BUT ...

With HGVC, purchase location seems to be irrelevant: points are points.  The only concern is the season, which affects points purchased and points required for a reservation.

With Marriott (MVC), season & location is important.  I'm not interested in traveling during prime seasons, so I purchased a Gold TS, vs a Platinum (highest) or Silver (lowest and worthless).  I purchased my 2-Br Shadow Ridge (Palm Desert, CA) L/O for $26 + closing costs.  You'll have to a pay a premium for the Plat's, where-as you can get a silver for nothing & closing costs may be free.  I have no trouble exchanging my TS for St. Thomas, Aruba (2-resorts), Spain (3-resorts), Paris (Disney), & Phuket (2-resorts).  Hawaii (6-resorts) is a little harder.  I've yet to see St Kitts, but I'm not looking either (once was enough).  I have NO interest in exchanging my Marriott for Mainland locations, although I've seen the Hyatt Coconut Plantation near FT Myers Beach come-up occasionally (tempting).  I wouldn't ever trade-down below Marriott, Hyatt, or Westin (which I've seen available in Hawaii).

Marriott location is very important, so I wouldn't base your decision on only the MF's (Branson).  Look at the location and MF's.  I was originally only looking at the Grand Vista (Orlando) and the Grand Chateau (Las Vegas), because they are good traders with low MF's.  In the end, I didn't want to pay the premium for the Grand Chateau (Platinum) and felt that Palm Desert MIGHT be a tad better trader than Grand Vista, + I like having the real-estate taxes paid separately.  Unless you are purchasing a Branson TS to stay there 99% of the time, I'd steer clear and go for a better non-mainland trader.

If you don't mind paying a premium ($1500-$2500) for a platinum week, take a look at the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas.  With no earth quakes (CA & midwest), hurricanes (FL & east coast), tornadoes (Branson), or other major disasters here in Las Vegas, your MF's should be stable with no special assessments to pay for the disaster.  And I wouldn't worry about LV being over-built, people always find the way & money to come to Vegas, so it should remain a good trader.

Oh Yeah, only buy a 2-BR Lock-Off (L/O): 2 possible vacations for the price of one.

That's my windy 2-cents.
- Ron :zzz:


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## dougp26364 (Apr 17, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> It was my mistake that the Las Vegas Marriott is not on the strip.  However, the point I was trying to make was that the Hawaiian Village and South Beach Hilton Timeshares are in the precise location you want to be in without needing a car. They are very walkable.   The savings in rent a car, parking, gas, worry of damage not to mention drinking and driving stress makes these locations far superior to the Ko'Olina and Miami locations of the Marriotts.



Well, sort of. It just depends on what you want. It's a matter of opinion. Of course, we do share the same opinion and enjoy HHV a great deal. On the other hand, with the proposed two additional timeshare towers at HHV, it could get so crowded that we might not like it as much in years to come. 

Sometimes a person enjoys a little solitude and relaxation to the cosmopolitan atmosphere provided by HHV. We have friends to won't travel with us to HHV for that very reason, they hate the location, the crowds and the city. They prefer to be out away from it all to relax. 

So location is really a matter of opinion. The fact remains that Marriott does offer more locations and more resort options than does HGVC, what was the only point I was making.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 21, 2012)

*Marriott does offer more Locations but.....*



dougp26364 said:


> Well, sort of. It just depends on what you want. It's a matter of opinion. Of course, we do share the same opinion and enjoy HHV a great deal. On the other hand, with the proposed two additional timeshare towers at HHV, it could get so crowded that we might not like it as much in years to come.
> 
> Sometimes a person enjoys a little solitude and relaxation to the cosmopolitan atmosphere provided by HHV. We have friends to won't travel with us to HHV for that very reason, they hate the location, the crowds and the city. They prefer to be out away from it all to relax.
> 
> So location is really a matter of opinion. The fact remains that Marriott does offer more locations and more resort options than does HGVC, what was the only point I was making.



The fact that Marriott offers more locations is totally agreed.  However, the point that I was making with the precise locations is that there are so many resorts in Hilton, Marriott, and the RCI and II systems that give you a little solitude and relaxation without the cosmopolitan atmosphere.  The Hilton Hawaiian Village and Hilton Miami South Beach are the only two that I know of that give you warm winter weather in the middle of a city enabling you to  have a great time without a car.  We have stayed at both for a total of about 60 weeks without a car over the last 4 years and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.  That would add up to one high rent a car, parking, gas, and possible drunk driving bill in other locations.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 21, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> The fact that Marriott offers more locations is totally agreed.  However, the point that I was making with the precise locations is that there are so many resorts in Hilton, Marriott, and the RCI and II systems that give you a little solitude and relaxation without the cosmopolitan atmosphere.  The Hilton Hawaiian Village and Hilton Miami South Beach are the only two that I know of that give you warm winter weather in the middle of a city enabling you to  have a great time without a car.  We have stayed at both for a total of about 60 weeks without a car over the last 4 years and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.  That would add up to one high rent a car, parking, gas, and possible drunk driving bill in other locations.



I can't say I can argue with you on this point. HHV is, after all, the primary reason I hang onto our HGVC ownership. 

But, I also own Marriott for what HGVC can't, or doesn't, provide. That's more locations to more destinations that we want to see. 

So yes, HGVC has two very fine cosmopolitan locations. For us however, two locations isn't enough.

FWIW, Marriott does have one city location were a car isn't a necessity. That would be Boston. In fact, I'd go so far to say that a car in Boston can be more of a handicap.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 21, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> I can't say I can argue with you on this point. HHV is, after all, the primary reason I hang onto our HGVC ownership.
> 
> But, I also own Marriott for what HGVC can't, or doesn't, provide. That's more locations to more destinations that we want to see.
> 
> ...



Speaking of a car being a handicap this is a list where I have been, I would add to Boston: New York, San Francisco, San Diego Gas Lamp District, New Orleans French Quarter, Honolulu, Miami South Beach, and I sure there are others.  In addition to the added cost, when you have a car you miss the flavor of the city, the people contact and interaction, the people watching every minute.  The driver misses the most, unless he/she is not watching the road which is dangerous.


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## TheWizz (Apr 25, 2012)

*Another alternative to HGVC is DRI*

While I don't own any Marriott TS (mainly due to the resale issues listed on TUG), I do own a few HGVC affiliated resorts w/ full HGVC points access and also several units with Diamond Resorts (DRI).  One can purchase resale DRI units fairly cheap on EBay and via TUG2 and (unless the rules have changed lately) pay $3K to convert them into "The Club" points based system, which provides a good bit of flexibility and options, e.g. nightly or weekly+ stays at >150 Club and Affiliated resorts globally via DRI and hundreds more via Interval World (II), one can also convert points to pay for a cruise, airline tickets, car rentals, hotels, etc.  The key with DRI is to buy a deeded week somewhere with reasonable MFs (like Polo Towers) and convert them to points - don't buy DRI Points as the $ per point MF rates are going up much faster than those for deeded week resorts.

What I like about DRI is that it is a good contrast to HGVC (with the exception of the Vegas/Orlando overlaps) in many parts of the country/world.  Some examples:

HGVC Affiliation = RCI; DRI Affiliation = II
HGVC Hawaii locations = Oahu, Big Island; DRI Hawaii locations = Maui, Kauai

By owning HGVC and DRI, I get access to the full compliment of RCI and II resorts for nightly/weekly exchanges in both systems via my respective points and I also have access to nice resorts on all four major Hawaiian islands.  I have stayed at both DRI HI resorts and HGVC Oahu resorts many times and will be going to the Big Island this summer for a week staying at Kings' Land.


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