# Just attended Ko Olina presentation regarding points ("Encore Membership Agreement")



## brianfox (Jul 27, 2010)

We are on day 2 of our Ko Olina trip and just finished our owners presentation.

Before I get to it, we own a Platinum DSV II week and a Silver Willow Ridge week (Branson).  On the points system, these would net 2300 and 850, respectively.

Our first presenter had read our profile ahead of time.  He saw that we had resale weeks (he referred to them as "non Marriott", if you can believe that).  His "presentation" consisted of asking us if we had questions about the new system. In my very first question, I mentioned TUG, and his face went pretty much flat.  He became disinterested immediately, and went so far as to tell us that we would probably not benefit from the point system.  He then went to get a supervisor that would be able to answer all of our questions (seriously - this was 5 minutes into the meeting).

The supervisor tried moderately to push points.  I was adamant that 3150 points would get us nowhere in the Marriott system.  We had split and traded our two weeks for three adjacent Hawaii weeks and our trades would have cost over 15,000 points under the system.  She agreed, but still said that it would be the "best of both worlds" if we just purchased 3,000 points.  We suggested there was no way we were about to drop $28000 after we spent only $7000 between our two resales that together are worth more than 3000 points.

Here were my questions (and Marriott's answers).  My comments in brackets:

*What happens with week resales going forward?  Will they be required to be enrolled in the point program?*
Yes.  All future week resales will be required to be enrolled in the point system.  If a seller sells a week that is already enrolled, the week will be continued to be enrolled at zero cost to the new owner.  [enrollment is therefore attached to the WEEK, not to the OWNER.] If a seller sells a "legacy" week, the new owner will be required to enroll the week in the point program at whatever the enrollment fee is.

*I currently have an un-enrolled week.  If I purchase an unenrolled resale week this year, can I enroll BOTH under the $1999 cost for multiple weeks?*
Yes.  She said we could enroll our current week(s) along with any weeks we purchase for the combined price.  [I have no idea as to the mechanics of this, as I have yet to see any Ebay listing mention any point system enrollment fee].  

*There is great speculation and concern on the TUG boards that we will not be able to perform searches (or even Flexchange searches) from our "new II" account that we will have for Marriott weeks enrolled under the Point program.*
We were told that the II account we will be given will allow us to do exactly the same things our old II account does.  We only need to contact our advisor once a year to decide whether to take points for the year or not.  If we choose to keep weeks, then the II interface will be identical to the one we currently use.

*We have a DSV II week that will nab a reasonable number of points, but also have a worthless Willow Ridge week.  If we choose to NOT enroll Willow Ridge, will we then have two II accounts?*
NO.  The Willow Ridge would be seen in your new II account, but you would not have the option to take points for it. 

*But I can still keep the Willow Ridge week in a separate II account if I want to, right?*
"No.....there is no real reason I see to do that".  Why do you want to pay for 2 accounts?

*Because I am afraid Marriott will take my ability to do my own searches away from me.  The Willow Ridge is great for splitting and doing Flexchanges*
"Marriott has no intention of limiting your searches."

*Purchasing points means you are "owning" interest in a group of resorts, and not just one.  What happens when there is a Special Assessment?*
"Points owners only see the benefits of the resort collection - not any liabilities.  Therefore, Point owners will never be subject to a Special Assessment.".

*But the Weeks owners will be subject to SA now and then.  Going forward, what happens when Marriott excercises their ROFR, slowly removing weeks owners from the system?  Taking an extreme example, what if a resort eventually only had one Weeks owner, all the rest being Points owners?  Along comes a $1M SA.  That one owner is on the hook?*
"I understand where you are going, and nothing like that would happen at Marriott.  That's why there is a reserve that your MF goes toward." [Clearly, she was not following me, or had no good answer.  If the reserves covered everything, there would never be an SA.]

We left the discussion with no intention to buy anything.

That is when she pulled out an interesting offer....

They called it an "Encore Membership Agreement", and it works as follows:
* Purchase a 7-night stay at Ko Olina (1BR or 2BR), good for the next 2 years.
* You will get whatever week you want, as long as you book at least 2 months in advance.
* Purchasing the stay will lock in the Points cost for the next 2 years at the current offer value [no value to me, since I am not interested in buying points]
* Purchasing the stay will lock in the Enrollment cost of my resale weeks for the next two years at the current price [potentially no value to me, since I believe they are not going to raise the enrollment price anytime soon].
* When you arrive for your stay, you will receive a $200 AMEX gift card.
** Once you take the trip your are purchasing, your full purchase price will apply toward any Point purchase OR resale week enrollment*

That last one makes it really interesting....Here are the week prices (before any AMEX gift card offset):

1 BR (Mountain View) - $1999
1 BR (Ocean View) - $2299
2 BR (Ocean View) - $2999

Payment options:
* Pay full price now and immediately get a $100 AMEX gift card (you still get $200 when you take your trip)
* Pay $495 now and pay the rest over 10 monthly payments (0% interest) - no $100 AMEX bonus

So let's break this down:
Assuming you are NOT interested in buying points, but ARE interested in enrolling your week(s)...

Cost of trip $2000
AMEX gift card $100 - for buying today
AMEX gidt card $200 - when you take your stay
Enrollment fee $1500 - that you were going to pay anyhow for enrolling your week.
Real cost of trip - $200 for a 1BR Ko Olina Mountain View.

This is not bad, in my opinion.  Of course, it assumes we will enroll our week when we return.  For those who want to buy points, this is basically a fully free week.  Of course, they only tell you about this when you are ready to walk out the door of the presentation, not intending to buy. 

A couple of extra things - 
* They will "reasonably" extend the 2 year deadline for free if you let them know ahead of time (2 months). 
* There is NO refund if you change your mind
* The week is transferrable to a family member if you cannot use it
* You must attend another 90 minute presentation when you return
* You can buy the 1BR now and upgrade with 2 months notice - they actually push this option.  Upgrade to an OV for $300, or a 2BR OV for $1000.
* There is NO option for a 2BR Mountain View.  They only offer the three choices.
* You will NOT need to pay for parking when you come - you will be considered to be a Marriott Owner.

We took the bait and purchased the $1999 week.  I wonder what they would have offered if we turned it down...  Be aware that you will be signing a purchase agreement contract (for the week stay - not to purchase any points).  So we walked away with a $100 AMEX and a guaranted 1BR in the next 2 years.

We still have no intention of buying points at this time.  I am crossing my fingers that Marriott will allow us to keep doing all the things we currently do with our II accounts - in fact, I am now officially betting on it.

We may very well purchase a second resale week in the next two years and enroll our current DSV II week along with the one we purchase - after all, they are claiming we can do both for $2000 and have 2 years to keep that offer.  I don't see any reason to ever enroll our Branson week.

If the II situation turns sour before we return, then we purchased a week for essentially $1700 - about what a private rental would cost.

I did not ask how the current offer of 800 bonus points works with the Encore Membership Agreement.  My guess is you'd get it if you wavered enough when the time came to enroll...

Any thoughts on this offer?  If you think it is a bad deal, please try to make me not feel like too much of a moron.


----------



## DanCali (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks for all this info.  A couple of things are unclear to me.



brianfox said:


> We are on day 2 of our Ko Olina trip and just finished our owners presentation.
> 
> 
> Here were my questions (and Marriott's answers).  My comments in brackets:
> ...



Were you talking about Marriott resales here? Otherwise it doesn't make sense... Marriott has made it crystal clear that resale weeks purchased after June 20 cannot enroll in points. Enrolled weeks will be unenrolled...  what was she talking about here?



brianfox said:


> That is when she pulled out an interesting offer....
> 
> They called it an "Encore Membership Agreement", and it works as follows:
> * Purchase a 7-night stay at Ko Olina (1BR or 2BR), good for the next 2 years.
> ...



I am not sure I follow why this is a good deal. You were going to pay $1500 to enroll and you still plan to do that - so no gain there. Now you pay $2000 for 7 days in a 1BR MV (and get $300 worth in Amex cards). So I see the net cost as $1700. Not sure why you'd deduct the $1500 enrollment as you would pay this whether you took the deal or not. Thay are not paying for your enrollment - just guaranteeing the $1500 cost to enroll one week, right? If so, then it only matters if they raised the price of enrollment. In fact, you yourself said:



> Purchasing the stay will lock in the Enrollment cost of my resale weeks for the next two years at the current price [*potentially no value to me, since I believe they are not going to raise the enrollment price anytime soon*].



I am also surprised at the NO refund clause. You should read the fine print. I know Starwood has a similar post-presentation package (pay $X, get a week accommodation, get  Y hotel points, and sit through another presentation with today's price guaranteed) and they give 3 days to rescind. I assume it's probably required by law (maybe only in certain states) rather than due to their kindness...


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

Brian,

Interesting update, thanks for the report.

I don't think your purchase is a bad deal, especially if you plan to enroll your resale weeks. Pretty reasonable return vacation at Ko'Olina (one of my favorite resorts!!) and you'll be enrolled in the new points system. What happens if you decide to enroll prior to your return to Ko'Olina?

There are a couple of points you listed that don't agree with other information from Marriott reps:



> All future week resales will be required to be enrolled in the point system. If a seller sells a week that is already enrolled, the week will be continued to be enrolled at zero cost to the new owner


 I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is that is will cost $2,000 to enroll resale points and that resale weeks can't be enrolled.



> She said we could enroll our current week(s) along with any weeks we purchase for the combined price.


 Again, Marriott reps are telling people that only resale weeks that closed prior to June 21 can be enrolled. A Marriott rep actually told you that they'll allow you to enroll resale weeks you purchase in the future? Unbelievable how poorly they have trained their reps!

I think the answer to your question about special assessments is that they will just raise the MF (of points owners) if a trust property has need for $$. They won't call it an assessment and it will be spread amongst all points owners, but my guess is that they will pay in increased MF. 

I also question whether you would have just one Marriott II account for both your Marriott weeks when one has been enrolled and the other not enrolled. I have considered enrolling one week but not both of mine. I assumed I would keep the resale week in my current II account and Marriott wouldn't have any control over that week.

One last thing, the 800 bonus point offer is only good until Dec. 31. So if you return to Ko'Olina after that and enroll at that time the 800 bonus points may not be offered.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

> I am not sure I follow why this is a good deal. You were going to pay $1500 to enroll and you still plan to do that - so no gain there. Now you pay $2000 for 7 days in a 1BR MV (and get $300 worth in Amex cards). So I see the net cost as $1700. Not sure why you'd deduct the $1500 enrollment as you would pay this whether you took the deal or not. It only matters if they raised the price of enrollment In fact, you yourself said:



Dan,
I think Brian was told that the price of the package ($1,999) would go towards the enrollment or the purchase of points. In other words, spend $1,999 for a return trip to Ko'Olina and if you purchase points or enroll your resale week when you come back then the $1,999 can be applied to your purchase price or the enrollment fee. If that's the case and he was going to enroll anyway, he gets a Ko'Olina week for $300. 



> * Once you take the trip your are purchasing, your full purchase price will apply toward any Point purchase OR resale week enrollment





> Cost of trip $2000
> AMEX gift card $100 - for buying today
> AMEX gidt card $200 - when you take your stay
> Enrollment fee $1500 - that you were going to pay anyhow for enrolling your week.
> Real cost of trip - $200 for a 1BR Ko Olina Mountain View.


----------



## dbbk94404 (Jul 27, 2010)

> I currently have an un-enrolled week. If I purchase an unenrolled resale week this year, can I enroll BOTH under the $1999 cost for multiple weeks?
> Yes. She said we could enroll our current week(s) along with any weeks we purchase for the combined price. [I have no idea as to the mechanics of this, as I have yet to see any Ebay listing mention any point system enrollment fee].





> We may very well purchase a second resale week in the next two years and enroll our current DSV II week along with the one we purchase - after all, they are claiming we can do both for $2000 and have 2 years to keep that offer. I don't see any reason to ever enroll our Branson week.


I was a moron too! Hate to tell you but they lied to you. You can't enroll any resale weeks if it was purchased after June 20. If what they said was true, why would anybody pay $9.20 per point when they can just buy a resale week for pennies on the dollar and convert it to points? I went through a presentaion at Ko Olina too and I actually bought additional points but I rescinded. I'm so glad I did because of what we know now are facts, there were so many outright lies by the sales reps that I will never trust what Marriott "says" again unless it's written and legally binding. I believe they have become "used car salesmen" - at least at Ko Olina.


----------



## pipet (Jul 27, 2010)

Yeah, I am boggled too about the resale comments (resales "required" to be enrolled? allowing future resales in at all???), and also the statement that enrollment is attached to the week, and that they would let you see an unenrolled week in the Marriott corp account...

Sounds like they were just full of random stuff that is contrary to Marriott's docs!

As for your deal, you've got an excuse to go back to HI


----------



## brianfox (Jul 27, 2010)

Pardon the spelling, but I am now on my phone. 

Regarding resales, my question to the rep was specific, and as I posed it. She specifically told me that going forward all week resales MUST be enrolled in the point system - there was no option. You are telling me that they are to be excluded...

regarding the stay offer, the deal is that the $2000 is applied toward the enrollment cost. I am not saying the enrollment cost is on top of the stay. I   think my post was pretty clear. I itemized it. 

If you can please post the exact wording from Marriott that says resales are excluded from points going forward, I will ask her directly tomorrow.


----------



## 5infam (Jul 27, 2010)

Interesting post Brian, thank you. Seems like the sales person should read TUG more to get the Marriott program down, instead of frowning about TUG and not being able to answer any questions!!:hysterical: 

I love it when the sales guy gets upset when I mention TUG. Makes my time spent with them that much more enjoyable. Usually though, it is not the sales person, but it is their supervisor (the turn over guy/apparent closer) that gets really pissed when I call them on their B.S. and tell them I got the info from TUG. Ahhh, I can't wait for my next trip to take more of their $$$ and educate one of their sales people on how their system really works.:rofl:


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

It really bothers me that over a month from the official release of this new points program Marriott has reps that giving false information. This claim that resale weeks purchased in the future can be enrolled is not correct! Also enrolled weeks do not transfer to a new buyer as an enrolled week. 

I can't believe that the Marriott reps are making these claims. They have not been trained to sale or explain this new points system. Marriott should shut down everything for a week and get all their people up to speed on all these issues.


----------



## DanCali (Jul 27, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> Dan,
> I think Brian was told that the price of the package ($1,999) would go towards the enrollment or the purchase of points. In other words, spend $1,999 for a return trip to Ko'Olina and if you purchase points or enroll your resale week when you come back then the $1,999 can be applied to your purchase price or the enrollment fee. If that's the case and he was going to enroll anyway, he gets a Ko'Olina week for $300.







brianfox said:


> regarding the stay offer, the deal is that the $2000 is applied toward the enrollment cost. I am not saying the enrollment cost is on top of the stay. I   think my post was pretty clear. I itemized it.



Yes, you were clear - I missed that part... my bad.

Now it makes sense. I agree it appears to be a very good deal if you were thinking of enrolling anyway. Just check the fine print that you get a credit for $1500. For example, when you buy points and enroll your weeks, they only give credit for the $595 they charge retail week buyers.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Pardon the spelling, but I am now on my phone.
> 
> Regarding resales, my question to the rep was specific, and as I posed it. She specifically told me that going forward all week resales MUST be enrolled in the point system - there was no option. You are telling me that they are to be excluded...
> 
> ...


Brian,

I'm not sure where the link is, but I'm sure the official info from Marriott states that only resale weeks which closed prior to June 21 can be enrolled. Anything after that is barred from the new points program. Enrolled weeks do not pass as an enrolled week to a new (resale) buyer. 

Ask to speak to a supervisor and let us know what they tell you.


----------



## 5infam (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> If you can please post the exact wording from Marriott that says resales are excluded from points going forward, I will ask her directly tomorrow.



I do not have the exact wording handy, but just ask them to show you the contract. It is very clear - weeks purchased outside of Marriott after June 20th, 2010 are not eligible to enroll in the points program. Check DaveM's sticky post at the top of the Marriott section and it outlines what we know for sure to date - and that has been clear since day 1. 

What is not 100% clear is if resale owners, who have a closed deed prior to June 20, will be able to enroll after December 31st. Some reps say yes, some say no - looks like yours said yes - but can you trust him/her after all the other misinformation they gave you?


----------



## DanCali (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Pardon the spelling, but I am now on my phone.
> 
> Regarding resales, my question to the rep was specific, and as I posed it. She specifically told me that going forward all week resales MUST be enrolled in the point system - there was no option. You are telling me that they are to be excluded...
> 
> ...



See this link (login required) 3rd Paragraph of the Enrollment Notice



> *Weeks purchased externally before June 20, 2010 may be enrolled for $1,495 for the first week or $1,995 for one and a half or more weeks. Weeks purchased externally, with a deed recording date after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for the program. *


----------



## 5infam (Jul 27, 2010)

Also, the whole thing about being able to see non-enrolled weeks in II - I believe that is false as well. All the posts I have seen on this state that you will need your own II account for weeks that are not enrolled in the points exchange program. Double check that with a supervisor as well.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

Brian,

This language is on the enrollment section of the vacation club site:


> Weeks purchased externally before June 20, 2010 may be enrolled for $1,495 for the first week or $1,995 for one and a half or more weeks. Weeks purchased externally, with a deed recording date after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for the program.



Your sales rep was clearly wrong about the enrollment of resale weeks in the future.


----------



## DanCali (Jul 27, 2010)

5infam said:


> IWhat is not 100% clear is if resale owners, who have a closed deed prior to June 20, will be able to enroll after December 31st. Some reps say yes, some say no - looks like yours said yes - but can you trust him/her after all the other misinformation they gave you?



This is not clear because the working is ambiguous (on purpose?)

This is from the FAQs:



> Q:I originally purchased my Marriott Vacation Club week(s) as an external sale through the secondary market. Would the benefits of enrolling be different for me?
> 
> A: If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. The enrollment fee for one externally purchased week will initially be $1,495, and enrolling multiple externally purchased weeks will initially total $1,995.* This offer is expected to be available only through December 31, 2010.* Once you enroll your week(s), you will gain the annual option to elect Vacation Club Points, and you may also add the option of trading your week(s) for Marriott Rewards points if the week(s) you purchased externally are eligible for Marriott Rewards trade. You also will gain the benefit and convenience of the annual single-use fee (Club Dues).




It is not clear if "This Offer" in the highlighted statement refers to the "offer to enroll" in general or "offer to enroll" at the stated prices...

Based on Brian's rep, it is the latter. But based on what she said I'd also be rushing to buy resale weks and enroll them in points...


----------



## scrapngen (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Pardon the spelling, but I am now on my phone.
> 
> Regarding resales, my question to the rep was specific, and as I posed it. She specifically told me that going forward all week resales MUST be enrolled in the point system - there was no option. You are telling me that they are to be excluded...
> 
> ...



Hi Brian, 

Thanks for your post! I've highlighted something that just makes no sense to me regarding what the rep. told you. IMHO, How can she/anyone say that going forward all week resales MUST be enrolled in a "voluntary" (my word) system??? How would they enforce this, where is this in any documents?? Obviously, if one buys points, which is all Marriott is now selling, you join the DC.  

A big part of this program (and decision) for weeks owners is that it is an optional "enhancement." Noone is being forced to join the Destination Club. The only thing I can think the rep MIGHT have been talking about was buying a resale through an "authorized" Marriott reseller. I suppose that could then be "forced" into points somehow, although that is a new twist that noone else has mentioned. But at this time, no TUGGER has been able to find out much of ANY information regarding who is authorized to sell or how to go about buying an approved resale week through Marriott. That seems to be one of those fuzzy areas that gets mentioned briefly in the documents, but that Marriott doesn't have available at the current time. They are only actively selling points. 

My only other thought for you is that it seems that the largest number of lies/misrepresentations/etc. often seem to come from salesreps at Ko'Olina. This is just something I've noticed from the TUG posts I've read (and I've pretty much read everything that has to do with this subject since before the actual roll-out ). That is my observation only,  but I'd personally be very wary about anything said at that particular resort, and would doublecheck the written agreements!!  As pointed out by several other posters above me, there seem to be a number of statements and claims made by your rep that are in direct conflict with information gathered over the last couple months by multiple TUG members. 

I hope that she has given you the correct facts re: the exporer package and enrollment, because based on what you've told us it is reasonable (actually it is a bargain!!), but I have my doubts as to whether you'll get the full $1500 enrollment fee refunded. I don't doubt you that you are sure that is what you were told, but it doesn't make sense. (to me) Otherwise, I'd say that everyone with resale weeks should go out and get the Explorer package and wait to enroll!! 
I do know that people who buy points are getting the $595 fee waived as DanCali said, but they are paying a large amount of $$ for those additional points compared to the waived fee!! 

Good luck, and I'm glad you can go and address these issues before you leave the resort! Let us know how it goes, (because I'd bet a lot of people who are thinking of enrolling their resale weeks would like a week at Ko'Olina for $300 as an additional incentive!   )


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> regarding the stay offer, the deal is that the $2000 is applied toward the enrollment cost. I am not saying the enrollment cost is on top of the stay. I   think my post was pretty clear. I itemized it.





brianfox said:


> ** Once you take the trip your are purchasing, your full purchase price will apply toward any Point purchase OR resale week enrollment*



I think this needs to be verified in the documents that Brian signed for the encore package. The documents will specify what the $1999 purchase price can be applied to. It is possible that they lied about it being able to be applied to the enrollment fee, imagine that...

It is also possible that it would only apply up to $595 or $695 of the enrollment fee. This is what Marriott has been waiving for resale owners with relation to the enrollment fee when they buy more points. I haven't seen yet where Marriott offered to waive the entire $1495/$1995 fee for resale owners on new point purchases.


----------



## m61376 (Jul 27, 2010)

Just remember- if it isn't in writing, consider it as not being so. Don't "trust them" as to the implied meaning of anything. If what they tell you isn't explicitly written, then insist that they add it into the contract or you'd be wise to rescind.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 27, 2010)

Boy, what is it with the Ko 'Olina sales staff?  They were the most consistently wrong with all the speculation prior to the rollout and it looks like they're continuing.  What a mess!  I'm with Lisa - there's no reason for a sales meeting at this late date to contain all these errors.


----------



## TrapperDog (Jul 27, 2010)

*Another Ko Olina story*

We just finished a presentation at Ko Olina, too..

Our sales rep and the "exit interview" rep both incorrectly told us that buying new points put us in a pool of being able to access both exchange and trust buckets. When I pushed a little on this, he exit guy insisted, nicely, I was wrong, stating this issue had come up before, but we could check with the manager. We did, and the manager told me the correct info -- that using any legacy points we could NOT access trust bucket, as has been confirmed on other posts here. Exit guy apologized.

We also got offered an "encore" package. $2295 for a 1 bedroom, $2695 for a 2 bedroom at Ko Olina, plus $200 in Marriott money, ocean view, use within 24 months, total cost could be applied to a points purchase when we attended the required sales presentation on return. Also, points cost was "capped" for twelve months at $9.65 a point. If points were lower cost, we could purchase at the lower cost. 

I'm tempted to purchase the week. If I do, I'm sure I'll be strongly tempted to purchase the points at that later time -- I'm sure the sales pitch will be the low cost of the points since $2300 will have been paid for. 

I'm torn. I'm angry at how my two purchased weeks has, in my opinion, been significantly devalued, how the sales reps tried to gloss it over in a used car like way ("but you could use your points for 6 weeks in Palm Desert in the summer!), and the misinformation about test vs. Exchange time. The presentation opened with "this is an enhancement option, nothing is being taken from you" and later being told they expect high end owners such as Ko Olina to convert to points if they are not using their weeks, drying up weeks to trade in the old way. When I pointed out that was something being taken away from me, the rep told me "I see your point."

On the other hand, the reality is that to get into high end properties, the system is changed and the best way to now do this is to become part of the new system. 

Resist on principle or reluctantly accept this new higher cost reality? I wish I could just think about the beach.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jul 27, 2010)

> Weeks purchased externally before June 20, 2010 may be enrolled for $1,495 for the first week or $1,995 for one and a half or more weeks. Weeks purchased externally, with a deed recording date after June 20, 2010 are not eligible for the program.



Has anyone yet answered the question if a resale week purchased through Marriott or an authorized broker is considered purchased internally or externally?


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

TrapperDog said:


> We also got offered an "encore" package. $2295 for a 1 bedroom, $2695 for a 2 bedroom at Ko Olina, plus $200 in Marriott money, ocean view, use within 24 months, total cost could be applied to a points purchase when we attended the required sales presentation on return. Also, points cost was "capped" for twelve months at $9.65 a point. If points were lower cost, we could purchase at the lower cost.


No mention of the enrollment fee being waived at the time you return to Ko'Olina? They only offered to apply the encore package price to the purchase of points?



> On the other hand, the reality is that to get into high end properties, the system is changed and the best way to now do this is to become part of the new system.



or try another system (Disney, Starwood, Hyatt, Hilton, Four Seasons, Fairmont.....) and start vacationing at some of these other properties. Marriott isn't the only game in town. I've stayed at some very nice high end  properties (II exchanges) that weren't Marriotts. There are other options!


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jul 27, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> It really bothers me that over a month from the official release of this new points program Marriott has reps that giving false information. This claim that resale weeks purchased in the future can be enrolled is not correct! Also enrolled weeks do not transfer to a new buyer as an enrolled week.
> 
> I can't believe that the Marriott reps are making these claims. They have not been trained to sale or explain this new points system. Marriott should shut down everything for a week and get all their people up to speed on all these issues.



does it surprise you that timeshare salesmen lie or promulgate misinformation?  Isn't that standard operating procedure?

Now, they have plausible deniability for lying because Marriott just launched a new program that is very confusing.  It gives sales guys perfect air cover for their misrepresentations.   Not sure anyone in Marriott really cares except those who are shopped by the real estate commission.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 27, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> does it surprise you that timeshare salesmen lie or promulgate misinformation?  Isn't that standard operating procedure?
> 
> Now, they have plausible deniability for lying because Marriott just launched a new program that is very confusing.  It gives sales guys perfect air cover for their misrepresentations.   Not sure anyone in Marriott really cares except those who are shopped by the real estate commission.



No it's not surprising. Unfortunately the lies and misinformation are standard for the timeshare industry. In the past Marriott took pride in having an honest sales presentation, a product that could sell itself without the lies. 

I am just amazed at the numerous ways that Marriott has bungled this new points rollout. I think they've lost a lot of respect within the community of timeshare owners who have some knowledge about the different options for owners. Maybe it's a small percentage but TUG members who are Marriott owners know that Marriott has dropped the ball in a huge way.


----------



## dbbk94404 (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree that timeshare sales reps tend to stretch the truth but to me, there is a huge difference in "grey areas" and what is in black and white. IMO, in the past, Marriott did not cross the line. The lies that were told to me and to others are not grey issues. Welcome to the dark side


----------



## DanCali (Jul 27, 2010)

TrapperDog said:


> Our sales rep and the "exit interview" rep both incorrectly told us that buying new points put us in a pool of being able to access both exchange and trust buckets. When I pushed a little on this, he exit guy insisted, nicely, I was wrong, stating this issue had come up before, but we could check with the manager. We did, and the manager told me the correct info -- that using any legacy points we could NOT access trust bucket, as has been confirmed on other posts here. Exit guy apologized.



You have to wonder how many non-Tuggers who don't know the truth are getting conned by Marriott in this manner. These are highly deceptive sales practices and the fact the the written docs may nullify stuff said orally doesn't make it any better...



TrapperDog said:


> The presentation opened with "this is an enhancement option, nothing is being taken from you" and later being told they expect high end owners such as Ko Olina to convert to points if they are not using their weeks, drying up weeks to trade in the old way. When I pointed out that was something being taken away from me, the rep told me "I see your point."



More scare tactics (just in case I'm ever accused again of making "wild baseless accusations" against Marriott)


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 27, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Has anyone yet answered the question if a resale week purchased through Marriott or an authorized broker is considered purchased internally or externally?



Here's a recent thread with the new website for Resale Operations.  BocaBoy has been told, "... buyers of resale weeks through Marriott's resale group ARE able to enroll in the new program with all the rights, even including the right to exchange for MR points," but I don't know if that website contains that official statement.  They always have considered weeks re-sold through Marriott the same as any other direct purchases, for whatever that's worth.


----------



## foreverloves (Jul 27, 2010)

My thought and worry has always been that Marriott is lying about "external" resale week purchases.  They're saying that - NOW - so that people don't snap up cheap Ebay deals and then try to convert to points.  So they put an artificial "end" date where no future external resales are permitted.  

But is Marriott going to REALLY operate two pools forever?  Once the points system is up and running (maybe 6 months? A year? 2 years?) why wouldn't Marriott approach the "external" purchasers again and offer them a "second chance" to get into points (perhaps with a higher buy-in?).  If all they really want is points, they are either going to start snapping up external resale purchases with ROFR or make another offer.  I would think the latter, because there are far too many points available and unsold weeks, for that matter.  Maybe in a while, they will just start taking weeks on ROFR.  I need to check the ROFR thread to see if Marriott has exercised it recently.

Marriott wants points.  They don't want weeks.  I don't think they want weeks owners, frankly.  I'm wanting to take my MIL's Barony Silver week because we love Barony and the MFs are cheaper in most cases than the nightly rental.  We want to buy where we like.  But I'm envisioning a time in the not-too-distant future where we are trying to book and they tell us, "No availability, but there's a special deal for you to convert to points..."


----------



## pipet (Jul 27, 2010)

TrapperDog said:


> they expect high end owners such as Ko Olina to convert to points if they are not using their weeks, drying up weeks to trade in the old way. When I pointed out that was something being taken away from me, the rep told me "I see your point."
> 
> On the other hand, the reality is that to get into high end properties, the system is changed and the best way to now do this is to become part of the new system. .



Like others have said, look at who told you this.   A salesperson.  From a place with a great reputation for honesty and pure motives and never an ounce of misinformation: Not!

While Ko Olina owners may get more points than many other weeks in the system & can spend several weeks in Hilton Head in January or Palm Desert in summer, if they want equitable trades, points aren't going to make them happy, so I doubt all these high conversion numbers.

Also going to agree with other posters that Marriott reps have always stretched the truth on the "value" of your timeshare, but at least when I bought, they were a slight step above the used-car salesman.  Now I think they are a step below...


----------



## Quilter (Jul 27, 2010)

brianfox said:


> We are on day 2 of our Ko Olina trip and just finished our owners presentation.
> 
> Before I get to it, we own a Platinum DSV II week and a Silver Willow Ridge week (Branson).  On the points system, these would net 2300 and 850, respectively.
> 
> ...



Brian,

would you please look at the paperwork you got with the week and see if it says your full purchase price will apply towards a purchase of points AND enrollment?   This would be a big difference because it would be contingent on the purchase of the new points.

Thank you,
Suzzanne


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2010)

We will be in Ko'Olina in October, still weighing if we should attend a presentation. The offer of 20K in points sounds great, but it means giving up 2+ hours of our first vacation to HI in 10 years. Add on top of that the aggravation of dealing with the sales people.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 27, 2010)

We usually meet with our sales rep for info sessions when we go to SW (although we learned the last time that it's better to schedule directly with her than to rely on the "concierge" to let her know that we only want info.) The presentation at Waiohai was painless, and at Marco Island no one ever asked.  Depending on what else we have scheduled I'd consider a presentation anywhere BUT Ko 'Olina - that sales office has a terrible reputation based on TUG posts over the last 6 months or so.  That's a whole lot of aggravation waiting to happen.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Depending on what else we have scheduled I'd consider a presentation anywhere BUT Ko 'Olina - that sales office has a terrible reputation based on TUG posts over the last 6 months or so.  That's a whole lot of aggravation waiting to happen.



Thanks for that info. We may wait till our second week in Maui


----------



## brianfox (Jul 27, 2010)

*Follow up from OP*

Another 30 minutes of my life and vacation wasted, but I have rescinded the Encore agreement.

After having read through my Encore contract, I could find nowhere where any mention of the purchase price going toward Enrollment.  The contract only mentioned the purchase price being usable toward the purchase of at least six (6) Benificial Interests in the DC.  A Benificial Unit is 250 points.  Clearly, this was completely different from what the sales lady told me a day earlier.

Rather than calling, I showed up at the Sales Gallery at 9:30 AM.  I had my laptop in-hand and my contract.  My sales-person from the previous day showed up to help me.  Her title was "Encore Executive", so one would think she knew what she was selling...

I put the contract before her and politely asked her to show me where it said my purchase of the Encore stay could be used for enrolling a week.  She pointed to a line on the summary page...where it stated specifically that the purchase price was only usable toward point purchase.

She seemed surprised!  I suggested we bring her supervisor into the room, and she said she would see what she could do.  After about 10 minutes with her supervisor, she came back to me and said that her understanding of the system was not correct.

Here is the way the program actually works:
You pay for the week ($1999-$2999, depending on room type/size).
You get the $200 in AMEX during your stay ($100 more if you pay in full now).
Your purchase price will ONLY be applied toward the purchase of at least 2500 points (6 beneficial interests).  The price will be about $23,500, less your purchase price of the Encore week.
She told me that because of the misunderstanding, they were willing to "do me a special favor".  If I kept the Encore week, they were "willing" to let me apply $695 toward the enrollment of the Legacy weeks I own.  So, rather than me paying $1995 to enroll my two weeks, I could instead only pay $1300 (on top of my $1999 for my Encore week).

Such a deal!  NOT!

I politely asked to rescind my Encore week purchase, and they complied.

I then once again politely brought up the question of how future resales will be treated.  Having lost her commission on the Encore week, she was less enthusiastic to answer me.  In fact, she directed me to the Owner Services number, saying they know much more than the people in the trenches.

Of course, from what I have read here, they all know pretty much zilch.

Thanks to everyone who jumped on this thread with the advice.  As much as I have read on TUG, you'd think I would have known better than to sign the Encore agreement -- or to believe a salesperson.  My wife and I love the Ko Olina property more than any other.  We WANT to believe that the people here are good people.  Three weeks in Hawaii will make you believe the world outside the islands is where all the bad people live.  

We have our money back, and are even less trusting of Marriott than we were.  If a product is truly good and worth the money, then sales people should not have to lie to sell it.  This experience speaks volumes about Marriott.

Anyhow, we still have 4 more days left to put this behind us.  Aloha.


----------



## scrapngen (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi Brian, 

Thanks for taking the time to report back after what must have been a disappointing visit to the sales office.  

Glad you are not out the money. 
As you say, you are in beautiful Hawaii. :whoopie: Take a deep breath and forget about all this as you enjoy the rest of your stay.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> She seemed surprised!  I suggested we bring her supervisor into the room, and she said she would see what she could do.  After about 10 minutes with her supervisor, *she came back to me and said that her understanding of the system was not correct.*
> 
> I then once again politely brought up the question of how future resales will be treated.  Having lost her commission on the Encore week, she was less enthusiastic to answer me.  *In fact, she directed me to the Owner Services number, saying they know much more than the people in the trenches.*
> 
> We have our money back, and are even less trusting of Marriott than we were.  If a product is truly good and worth the money, then sales people should not have to lie to sell it.  *This experience speaks volumes about Marriott.*



Brian,

Thanks for the update and I'm glad you were able to cancel. The way you explained it in your first post was a tempting offer, almost too good to be true. Unfortunately, it wasn't accurate and you were given bad information by an inadequately trained sales rep.

I continue to be amazed at the lack of training the Marriott reps have received for this new points program. They are selling points worth a lot of $$$$, and yet they don't know the terms and conditions. Her explanation about the enrolled resale weeks staying in the points program when sold is wrong. I would be furious if I purchased points based on the things she represented about the program and later found out they weren't true. Imagine how many have done exactly that!!

I can understand a lack of training at other retail establishments. If I stop for a yogurt and the clerk can't give me the nutritional info I can deal with that. But if I'm making a purchase of points costing $10,000 (or more) and expecting those points to provide family vacations for many years to come, I want the seller to fully explain what I'm buying. Sadly the Marriott reps can't do that.

Brian, enjoy the rest of your week! Aloha!


----------



## brianfox (Jul 28, 2010)

Oh, I forgot to add that when I asked about future resale enrollments, she stood firm in the belief that future resales would be REQUIRED to enroll in the points system (I guess she felt the enrollment fee would scare people away from buying a resale).

I then used my laptop to POINT to the line in the Marriott documents that states that resales that close after June XX are not eligible to be enrolled.  She claimed they WERE eligible - but not necessarily at the price of $1495/$1995.  She said they WOULD be eligible - but at a higher enrollment cost.  I recall there being an ongoing TUG battle over the meaning of ineligible in the Marriott wording...

Still believing she didn't get it, I brought up the great example in this thread - why would anyone buy 3,000 points for $28000 when they could buy a resale Palm Desert week for $6000, enroll it for $2000 and then get the same 3000 points?

Her answer was interesting - she said that "external points" were not the same as "internal points", and the points you buy would "get you farther" than the points you get from enrolled weeks.  She started talking about only internal points being able to access ALL of the Marriott properties, then she kind of talked herself into a corner, and promptly froze up.

Now, on the surface, it sounds like she was simply making everything up.  But what I believe is that her training session covered that sort of question briefly, but she didn't fully understand the answer.  In other words, I have a feeling there was some degree of truth in her answer and a whole lot of fluff.  The question is - which part of it is sort of true?

When I pressed her for an example of how the points were different, she referred me to Owner Services.  I even asked if a supervisor would know the answer and she did not want to take it any further.

I have a feeling that future sales presentation questionaires will include the question "Are you now or have you ever been a member of TUG?"


----------



## 5infam (Jul 28, 2010)

Brian - Sorry you had to go through all of that on your vacation; but at least you can sleep peacefully at night now with that worry off your back.

Enjoy the rest of your stay!!!


----------



## 5infam (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Oh, I forgot to add that when I asked about future resale enrollments, she stood firm in the belief that future resales would be REQUIRED to enroll in the points system (I guess she felt the enrollment fe would scare people away from buying a resale).
> 
> I then used my laptop to POINT to the line in the Marriott documents that states that resales that close after June XX are not eligible to be enrolled.  She claimed they WERE eligible - but not necessarily at the price of $1495/$1995.  She said they WOULD be eligible - but at a higher enrollment cost.
> 
> ...



The part that seems to be true is that if you buy Trust Points directly from Marriott, and only use those points to make a reservation (not combining them with a week you traded for points), then you have full reservation access to all of the Trust Inventory. Otherwise, if you use the points you traded in for, you just have access to the Trust Inventory if a Trust owner makes an exchange in the exchange company.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Her answer was interesting - she said that "external points" were not the same as "internal points", and the points you buy would "get you farther" than the points you get from enrolled weeks.



She might be referring to the buckets of inventory we've discussed at length on TUG. Perhaps she was trying to say that if you purchase points from Marriott "internal points" you have access to the trust inventory and the exchange inventory. But instead if you purchase a resale week and enroll it then you have "external points" or legacy week points and can only access the exchange inventory, not the trust inventory.

It still doesn't answer your question of why someone would spend $28,000 on points when they could just buy the Palm Desert week for $6,000 and enroll it for $2,000. Either way they have your example of 3,000 points. 

Obviously this rep doesn't understand the difference in the inventory buckets.


----------



## dbbk94404 (Jul 28, 2010)

> Thanks to everyone who jumped on this thread with the advice. As much as I have read on TUG, you'd think I would have known better than to sign the Encore agreement -- or to believe a salesperson. My wife and I love the Ko Olina property more than any other. We WANT to believe that the people here are good people. Three weeks in Hawaii will make you believe the world outside the islands is where all the bad people live.
> 
> We have our money back, and are even less trusting of Marriott than we were. If a product is truly good and worth the money, then sales people should not have to lie to sell it. This experience speaks volumes about Marriott.



Brian,

That is *exactly* how we feel. Glad you were able to rescind. We were lucky the incompetent staff forgot to include a doc we needed to sign which gave us another 10 days to rescind since we were past the recision date by the time I found TUG and all its helpful members. We also like Ko Olina best (even better than our Maui Ocean Club) just stay away from the 14th floor  Aloha


----------



## BocaBoy (Jul 28, 2010)

Weeks purchased through Marriott Resales or an approved broker (if any exist, which I do not think they do) count as Internal purchases and are eligible for everything, including points and MR points.  I have two weeks listed with Marriott Resales and know this to be true.  Also, the Marriott resales website states at least some of this.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Weeks purchased through Marriott Resales or an approved broker (if any exist, which I do not think they do) count as Internal purchases and are eligible for everything, including points and MR points.  I have two weeks listed with Marriott Resales and know this to be true.  Also, the Marriott resales website states at least some of this.



That is the accurate for weeks purchased through Marriott resales or an approved official broker (I've been told by a couple of reps there will be approved official brokers in the future). 

However Brian was told;



> All future week resales will be required to be enrolled in the point system. If a seller sells a week that is already enrolled, the week will be continued to be enrolled at zero cost to the new owner. [enrollment is therefore attached to the WEEK, not to the OWNER.] If a seller sells a "legacy" week, the new owner will be required to enroll the week in the point program at whatever the enrollment fee is



This information is not accurate.


----------



## DanCali (Jul 28, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> I continue to be amazed at the lack of training the Marriott reps have received for this new points program. They are selling points worth a lot of $$$$, and yet they don't know the terms and conditions. Her explanation about the enrolled resale weeks staying in the points program when sold is wrong. I would be furious if I purchased points based on the things she represented about the program and later found out they weren't true. Imagine how many have done exactly that!!



Lisa, this cannot be lack of training. Do you really believe that?

It is simply blatant lies. In particular the lie about the package covering the enrollment fee is appaling. And this particular sales office keeps coming up on TUG with these types of issues over and over.

If they resort to these types of methods to sell their product, this just strengthens my belief that buying anything from Marriott is a ripoff. This includes enrolling in the points "enhancment"...

I was a happy owner mostly praising Marriott on the TUG boards prior to June 20... What happened to this company?


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

> Lisa, this cannot be lack of training. Do you really believe that?
> 
> It is simply blatant lies.


Dan,
I honestly think it's a combination of factors. I think these Marriott reps are very poorly trained and confused by this new points program. Maybe they are lying intentionally but I prefer to think they do not have an in-depth understanding of how this new program works. I would guess that most reps never get the questions we've been discussing here on TUG since June 20. Many prospective buyers don't have enough knowledge to adequately ask intelligent questions. Some of the provisions in the terms and conditions are very vague and it's difficult to understand exactly how they will be applied. At this point I'll give the Marriott reps the benefit of the doubt. I think it's lack of knowledge, training and understanding of the new points program. Maybe they're just lazy and haven't taken the time to read the information they've been given.

If (or when) they keep making these gross misrepresentations several months from now, then I'll concede they are either not very smart, lazy or lying.


----------



## gblotter (Jul 28, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> I think it's lack of knowledge, training and understanding of the new points program. Maybe they're just lazy and haven't taken the time to read the information they've been given.


Likely true.  Many of these folks are coin-operated and only care about their next commission.  I am always amazed that some salespeople (regardless of what they are selling) do not make the effort to become experts in their product.  They hurt so much their own chances for success by bumbling around like clueless idiots spouting buzzwords.  On the other hand, it is energizing to talk with a salesperson who is knowledgeable and passionate about his product and knows it inside and out.


----------



## DanCali (Jul 28, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> Maybe they are lying intentionally but I prefer to think they do not have an in-depth understanding of how this new program works.



That's very chivalrous of you.

With these stories coming up over and over again I've lost faith in their salespeople and it's starting to reflect poorly on the entire organization. I completely agree that 2-3 days of training were insufficient but we are now over 5 weeks after the launch. These people live and breath MVCI all day - it's their full time job and their livelihood depends on knowing how to respond to every possible objection from a prospective customer. If someone can know this program quite well in 5 weeks by spending an hour on TUG each day I believe that the salespeople know the program much better than we do by now... they would sell it on its merits if they could. Otherwise, they will sell it any way that gets the customer to sign the dotted line. 

I actually wish I was wrong on his one and we stop seeing these stories. I feel terrible for the uninformed who are misled by these salespeople.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

DanCali said:


> I was a happy owner mostly praising Marriott on the TUG boards prior to June 20... What happened to this company?



Dan,
 I definitely agree with your comment. I've been a happy Marriott owner since 2003 and have stayed at many of the MVCI properties. Marriott was very proud of the idea that they brought respectability to the timeshare industry. Well, that has changed and their sales reps are just like all the others now. I am very disappointed in the way they have handled this new points program.


----------



## brianfox (Jul 28, 2010)

I, like Lisa, want to give the sales reps the benefit of the doubt, but these are the same people who routinely gave false information long before points became a reality. It will be very interesting to see if anyone else reports what I went through in the next few weeks. 

By the way, another poster in this thread went to the Ko Olina presentation a day before me, and did not follow up. I left him a PM and we spoke on the phone.

His situation is a little different than mine. He owns a couple of Marriott purchased Shadow Ridge weeks. The rep offered him a slightly different Encore package. They did not offer to have his Encore purchase go toward enrollment. They told him he could use the purchase price toward points. 

So, in his case, the sales rep was either knowledgeable, honest, or too lazy to lie.


----------



## brianfox (Jul 28, 2010)

Hey all, completely off the subject (but it is my thread after all). Is it worth it for me to go to the Disney KO Olina presentation? They have a little storefront in a mini-mall right outside the Marriott property. From what I hear, they show you a model room. Anyone hear anything else?  I don't think they offer any freebies for attending.


----------



## LAX Mom (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Hey all, completely off the subject (but it is my thread after all). Is it worth it for me to go to the Disney KO Olina presentation? They have a little storefront in a mini-mall right outside the Marriott property. From what I hear, they show you a model room. Anyone hear anything else?  I don't think they offer any freebies for attending.


Brian,
I think it would be very interesting to hear what Disney is offering in comparison to the Marriott presentation. However, you need to enjoy your vacation and Ko'Olina. Go to the beach!


----------



## windje2000 (Jul 28, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Lisa, this cannot be lack of training. Do you really believe that?
> 
> It is simply blatant lies. In particular the lie about the package covering the enrollment fee is appaling. And this particular sales office keeps coming up on TUG with these types of issues over and over.
> 
> ...



What happened? A $700 MM write down (on the timeshare business) in 2009.  Can't believe Billy M was happy about that.


----------



## 5infam (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Hey all, completely off the subject (but it is my thread after all). Is it worth it for me to go to the Disney KO Olina presentation? They have a little storefront in a mini-mall right outside the Marriott property. From what I hear, they show you a model room. Anyone hear anything else?  I don't think they offer any freebies for attending.



I own DVC, and can tell you that resort is expensive to purchase into. DVC has a great ROFR program that ensures resale values stay high, so you won't be picking up any cheap DVC Hawaii points on the resale market. However, if you want to learn about DVC, then they will be glad to show you. Hawaii is expensive to buy into. If you have kids and want to own DVC in Orlando, there are great resorts you can get for a lot cheaper on the resale market than buying Hawaii directly. You can use those points in Hawaii too, but you can only book at 7 months out, giving Hawaii owners a 4 month window to book first. So, you will probably get something in Hawaii, but not super prime time at 7 months out.

My opinion, it is a far superior points system to Marriott, but the resort locations themselves are a lot more limited than Marriott, so as the saying goes - buy where you want to stay. If it interests you, go check it out, I have never met a high pressure sales person at DVC, and every guide I have spoken to is very knowledgeable about the program. Good luck - and if you decide to go, let us know how you think they compare.


----------



## gblotter (Jul 28, 2010)

brianfox said:


> Hey all, completely off the subject (but it is my thread after all). Is it worth it for me to go to the Disney KO Olina presentation? They have a little storefront in a mini-mall right outside the Marriott property. From what I hear, they show you a model room. Anyone hear anything else?  I don't think they offer any freebies for attending.


I'm seriously interested in purchasing at the Disney Ko Olina (Aulani).  I've already had several phone conversations with a DVC salesperson and received a big packet of information.  My concerns are the smaller room size and also wondering if the heavy theme aspect of the resort might be a little "kitschy".  No doubt it will be great for kids, but after the kids are raised, is the Aulani a place that adults will want for a vacation?

If you attend their presentation, please let us know what you think.


----------



## pharmgirl (Jul 28, 2010)

5infam said:


> I own DVC, and can tell you that resort is expensive to purchase into. DVC has a great ROFR program that ensures resale values stay high, so you won't be picking up any cheap DVC Hawaii points on the resale market. However, if you want to learn about DVC, then they will be glad to show you. Hawaii is expensive to buy into. If you have kids and want to own DVC in Orlando, there are great resorts you can get for a lot cheaper on the resale market than buying Hawaii directly. You can use those points in Hawaii too, but you can only book at 7 months out, giving Hawaii owners a 4 month window to book first. So, you will probably get something in Hawaii, but not super prime time at 7 months out.
> 
> Does DVC give anything for attending a preview?  we would be interested wehn we visit Marriott KoOlina


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 28, 2010)

Here's a great thread about DVC's Aulani from Werner Weiss.  (He's another of the DVC experts on TUG.)


----------



## ldanna (Jul 28, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> Dan,
> I honestly think it's a combination of factors. I think these Marriott reps are very poorly trained and confused by this new points program. Maybe they are lying intentionally but I prefer to think they do not have an in-depth understanding of how this new program works. I would guess that most reps never get the questions we've been discussing here on TUG since June 20. Many prospective buyers don't have enough knowledge to adequately ask intelligent questions. Some of the provisions in the terms and conditions are very vague and it's difficult to understand exactly how they will be applied. At this point I'll give the Marriott reps the benefit of the doubt. I think it's lack of knowledge, training and understanding of the new points program. Maybe they're just lazy and haven't taken the time to read the information they've been given.



No combination of factors, just lies. Lisa, been a good person as I think you are, it's dificult to understand this, and we all try to think that the sales rep is just poorly trained. After this:

_... She told me that because of the misunderstanding, they were willing to "do me a special favor". If I kept the Encore week, they were "willing" to let me apply $695 toward the enrollment of the Legacy weeks I own. So, rather than me paying $1995 to enroll my two weeks, I could instead only pay $1300 (on top of my $1999 for my Encore week). ... _

... they even have a plan B if you catch them lying. It's amazing!

Lisa, as a father I can tell you something that a mother as you are can understand: my 5yo boy will listen only what will be best for him when I try to "train" him; he will even say something like "... you told me I could watch TV", forgeting only to say "... after brushing my teeth" (just a small detail he doesn't need to pay any attention).


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 28, 2010)

You know what I can't figure out?  Why Ko 'Olina?  Why is it that the sales staff THERE is so consistently wrong and overly-aggressive and difficult to work with, etc?  From all reports a sales presentation there is pretty much guaranteed to be a miserable experience.

We've been hearing bad things from that sales office for ages now, long before this points rollout.  I don't think they're the most expensive property, are they?  When Marco Island's sales office was up and running we didn't hear horror stories from there, and those weeks were priced off-the-chart compared to the other resorts.  Does Marriott have more invested in Ko 'Olina than any of the other resorts?  It sounds ridiculous but is the future of Marriott's timeshare business resting on Ko 'Olina's success?  I just can't imagine why one sales office is allowed to operate in such a sketchy way.

We know Marriott is reading TUG these days because several people have taken their concerns about the points system to higher-ups who have admitted at least a familiarity with TUG, and in some cases have been shown actual TUG posts.  Maybe one good side effect of this will be that the Ko 'Olina sales office practices will be reviewed and changed.  Hopefully.


----------



## foreverloves (Jul 28, 2010)

I happen to believe a little more of this.  As I posted earlier, I don't believe Marriott is going to work with weeks owners and points owners forever.  When this program gets off the ground, Marriott may exercise ROFR more often (when there are more points sold and more reason to do so) to "get rid" of weeks owners.  I also truly do believe that there will be another push to resale owners - with a higher buy in, as suggested by this salesperson in KoOlina - because Marriott wants points, not weeks.

I have a friend who is a manager at a MCVI in Florida.  He doesn't work in sales, but I wonder if it's time for me to shoot him an email and see what he thinks.


----------



## hotcoffee (Jul 28, 2010)

foreverloves said:


> I happen to believe a little more of this.  As I posted earlier, I don't believe Marriott is going to work with weeks owners and points owners forever.  When this program gets off the ground, Marriott may exercise ROFR more often (when there are more points sold and more reason to do so) to "get rid" of weeks owners.  I also truly do believe that there will be another push to resale owners - with a higher buy in, as suggested by this salesperson in KoOlina - because Marriott wants points, not weeks.
> 
> I have a friend who is a manager at a MCVI in Florida.  He doesn't work in sales, but I wonder if it's time for me to shoot him an email and see what he thinks.



I believe you have hit upon a huge reality.  Marriott has bet their whole future on points.  They have an awful lot to lose if the points program goes down in flames.  In spite of what at least one TUG poster has suggested, Marriott is not going to allow a "new coke" scenerio happen to them.  If they have to make adjustments along the way, they will make them.  But, I cannot see them doing a 180 and going back to weeks.  I agree with the peope who have suggested that their real goal is to aim much higher than the publicized 20% participation.  It will take a long time, but I cannot imagine it being otherwise than their goal being to reduce the ratio of weeks owners to points owners (either through enrollments or direct points sales).


----------



## 5infam (Jul 29, 2010)

pharmgirl said:


> Does DVC give anything for attending a preview?  we would be interested wehn we visit Marriott KoOlina



I have never received anything for attending a DVC presentation. I have no idea if they offer anything - my guess would be no - but if anyone knows different, then let us know.


----------



## Fairwinds (Jul 30, 2010)

Why not enrole the Branson week with the others? The enrolement fee will stay the same with multiple resale week established rate and you retain all the original usage options. I do think additional study is required concerning the enrolement of weeks purchased after the reported June cut off  .


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 31, 2010)

pharmgirl said:


> Does DVC give anything for attending a preview?  we would be interested wehn we visit Marriott KoOlina





5infam said:


> I have never received anything for attending a DVC presentation. I have no idea if they offer anything - my guess would be no - but if anyone knows different, then let us know.



DVC does not offer any cash type incentives to attend a presentation. They have in the past and likely still offer a ultimate fast pass at their Orlando properties. Essentially giving back your time that you spent at the presentation.

Disney believes their product sells itself. They have been challenged to make this happen at their non WDW locations. I don't know if they have ever offered incentives at HHI or Vero Beach. It is possible that they may at HI, but I wouldn't count on it.


----------

