# Orlando vs. Las Vegas maintenance fees and other



## jekgirl (Dec 13, 2010)

Newbie looking into a possible HGVC resale purchase (have also been looking into starwood, worldmark, wyndham, and bluegreen).  

Which Orlando/Las Vegas resorts do you think will have higher than normal maintenance fee increases and/or special assessments in the future?  Obviously, I know that we can't predict the future, but best guesses using reasonable assumptions might be helpful.  Are any of the owners of Orlando/Las Vegas properties currently paying special assessments?

Also, which area/resort would have the best trade power in RCI?


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## Blues (Dec 13, 2010)

HGVC Flamingo just went through a refurb for which we owners paid a SA.  It should be good to go for quite a few years now.  Also, it's one of the few (only?) locations for which HGVC doesn't have ROFR; so if you negotiate a good deal, it's yours.  I'd recommend looking for a Flamingo.

Trade power doesn't depend on which location you own.  HGVC has a corporate account with RCI.  When you trade any HGVC, you get the trade power of the entire organization.

HTH,
Bob


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

As Blues mentioned above, Flamingo has updated recently. Karen Ave. is going to be updated too (or already started?), but there's no special assessment charged to owners. Strip location is the newest one among those 3 vegas resorts and has lowest MF.
Usually vegas locations have lower MF than Orlando or Hawaii.
HGVC is one of the strongest trader in RCI regardless where you own. You don't deposit your week, Hilton does.
Starwood has one of the highest MF. Worldmark has the best value as a trader in RCI and II.



jekgirl said:


> Newbie looking into a possible HGVC resale purchase (have also been looking into starwood, worldmark, wyndham, and bluegreen).
> 
> Which Orlando/Las Vegas resorts do you think will have higher than normal maintenance fee increases and/or special assessments in the future?  Obviously, I know that we can't predict the future, but best guesses using reasonable assumptions might be helpful.  Are any of the owners of Orlando/Las Vegas properties currently paying special assessments?
> 
> Also, which area/resort would have the best trade power in RCI?


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## linsj (Dec 13, 2010)

To add to yumdrey's Las Vegas info, when the Strip property sells out, the MF will increase, guaranteed. Hilton is keeping it low to sell units.


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## jekgirl (Dec 13, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> As Blues mentioned above, Flamingo has updated recently. Karen Ave. is going to be updated too (or already started?), but there's no special assessment charged to owners. Strip location is the newest one among those 3 vegas resorts and has lowest MF.
> Usually vegas locations have lower MF than Orlando or Hawaii.
> HGVC is one of the strongest trader in RCI regardless where you own. You don't deposit your week, Hilton does.
> Starwood has one of the highest MF. Worldmark has the best value as a trader in RCI and II.




@yumdrey--i see that you own with several companies. do you find that worldmark is a better trader compared to hilton? i think trade power is important to me because we like to travel to different destinations. i was interested in worldmark because they seem to be owner friendly and you can rent points, but i live on the east coast and the quality of their internal resorts seems average. how do you think the quality of the hilton properties compare to worldmark? so many factors to consider!


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

WM can be traded in both II and RCI. I use my WM points for II exchanges, II treats WM very well, I always get 2 years for 1 renewal for II membership (pay 1 year's membership fee and get 2 years). RCI offered 1 free year of RCI membership to WM owners too.
WM has strong trading power on II and RCI, if you go to wmowners.com, there are WM sightings, so you can check what WM can see in II and RCI.
Considering MF and exchange fees, WM is a little better than HGVC (money wise) for normal (regular) exchanges. HGVC is a top trader in RCI and can see "everything". However, HGVC has no benefit for last minute exchanges in RCI, no discounted points. 
I have traded my 20,000 WM credits for 3-5 weeks in II each year, WM owners use only 4000 credits (regardless the room size you get) during flexchange (59 days from check-in on II, 49 days from check-in on RCI). Recently I traded 4000 WM credits with Four Seasons Aviara 2BR. If I convert this exchange to money I spent, 4000 credit is about $200 in MF and I paid $139 exchange fee, so total $339 is what I spent for this exchange.
II also offers XYZ promotion, and I made another exchange (2BR Marriott in NJ during easter break) by paying only $159 (exchange fee).
If you plan to use HGVC points *only* for trading, I would find other systems and locations. You can find better trader than Hilton, low initial cost and low MF. I am happy for my HGVC/RCI exchanges I made so far, they are all Disney resorts during peak holidays. But I don't use my HGVC points for trading purpose, I use most of my points in NYC.

I have never been to any WM resort so far, but I have heard that older resorts are average quality and newer ones are better. I believe Hilton resorts are higher-end than WM.
Even though I haven't stayed at WM resort, all the traded resorts by using WM were - Marriotts, Royal Sands in cancun, Hyatt, Four Seasons, Disney (when they were with II) and Westins (including Harborside resort Atlantis). These resorts were equally nice or better than Hilton resorts.
Both WM and HGVC are flexible point system, but HGVC needs some cost to use that flexibility - pay booking fee for each reservation (other than home resort), pay fee to deposit/rescue leftover points, pay fee for guest certificate, pay special assessment for every 10-15 years.
WM has no special assessment, they cannot increase MF each year more than 5%, can buy extra points for almost same price as MF from other members and transfer those points are for free, no booking fee, no guest certificate fee, you can use the points for 2 years + 1 month without doing anything, you can easily sell unused points to other members to help paying MF.
TUG mantra is "buy resale, buy where you will use yourself (not for exchange)" 



jekgirl said:


> @yumdrey--i see that you own with several companies. do you find that worldmark is a better trader compared to hilton? i think trade power is important to me because we like to travel to different destinations. i was interested in worldmark because they seem to be owner friendly and you can rent points, but i live on the east coast and the quality of their internal resorts seems average. how do you think the quality of the hilton properties compare to worldmark? so many factors to consider!


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## GregT (Dec 13, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> WM can be traded in both II and RCI. I use my WM points for II exchanges, II treats WM very well, I always get 2 years for 1 renewal for II membership (pay 1 year's membership fee and get 2 years). RCI offered 1 free year of RCI membership to WM owners too.
> WM has strong trading power on II and RCI, if you go to wmowners.com, there are WM sightings, so you can check what WM can see in II and RCI.
> Considering MF and exchange fees, WM is a little better than HGVC (money wise) for normal (regular) exchanges. HGVC is a top trader in RCI and can see "everything". However, HGVC has no benefit for last minute exchanges in RCI, no discounted points.
> I have traded my 20,000 WM credits for 3-5 weeks in II each year, WM owners use only 4000 credits (regardless the room size you get) during flexchange (59 days from check-in on II, 49 days from check-in on RCI). Recently I traded 4000 WM credits with Four Seasons Aviara 2BR. If I convert this exchange to money I spent, 4000 credit is about $200 in MF and I paid $139 exchange fee, so total $339 is what I spent for this exchange.
> ...



This is an excellent summary by Yumdrey -- nicely done.

I would add that I've stayed at about 10 WM resorts and they are good to very good quality -- but definitely a step down from Hilton/Marriott/Starwood.    I keep Worldmark primarily as a trader, but also for "short stays", ie my Marriott (fixed) weeks start on Saturday and I'll arrive in Maui on Thursday or Friday and stay at the Worldmark in Kihei for a couple of days.  

There may also be an RCI quirk between Worldmark and Hilton -- Hilton owners can't trade into HGVC resorts via RCI until they are within 9 months of check-in (unless its their home resort, I believe).

However, Worldmark -- a very stronger trader in RCI -- can see that HGVC unit outside of the 9 months.  Accordingly, it's theoretically possible for WM to get a trade (into HHV Lagoon as an example) at 11 months than an HGVC owner couldn't get.   

I've not tested this theory, but I believe it to be true.   I think WM is a great addition to most people's timeshare collection, whether its to use for stays, or for a trading property.

Good luck!

Greg


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## jestme (Dec 13, 2010)

With all this discussion of trading HGVC, etc. I have a question. What exactly does Hilton do with a Marriot or WM trade INTO HGVC? For example, an HGVC owner goes through RCI and gets a Marriot, through the HGVC corporate account. Surely, they don't always balance out.


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## GregT (Dec 13, 2010)

jestme said:


> With all this discussion of trading HGVC, etc. I have a question. What exactly does Hilton do with a Marriot or WM trade INTO HGVC? For example, an HGVC owner goes through RCI and gets a Marriot, through the HGVC corporate account. Surely, they don't always balance out.




RCI is acting as the "clearinghouse" and HGVC will have deposited weeks into RCI's inventory -- perhaps the HGVC points owner has requested a trade into Disney, or some other RCI affiliated resort, and RCI will give up the Disney week from its inventory and take the HGVC week in exchange.

Then I come along with my Worldmark account and I see that there is an HGVC that is in the RCI inventory and available for trade.  I offer to trade Worldmark (points) for the HGVC week, and bingo, I now have a reservation at the HGVC property (and 10,000 less Worldmark points that I gave up).

RCI will then get some desirable 2BR property from Worldmark (using my 10,000 points) and add it to its inventory.  Someone else comes along and exchanges their timeshare for that Worldmark week.

RCI makes an exchange fee on each exchange ($189) and therefore they are incentivized to facilitate as many exchanges as possible.  They do not care about the relative "quality" of each resort, only that they have a willing exchanger that will pay them $189.

I hope that makes sense!

All the best,

Greg


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## jestme (Dec 13, 2010)

I understand RCI's role that exercise, but what does HGVC get in exchange for it's deposits, and what does it do with them? Effectively, RCI acts as an exchange company, so when HGVC deposits, what does it get in return?


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

jestme said:


> With all this discussion of trading HGVC, etc. I have a question. What exactly does Hilton do with a Marriot or WM trade INTO HGVC? For example, an HGVC owner goes through RCI and gets a Marriot, through the HGVC corporate account. Surely, they don't always balance out.



Only older and handful of Marriott resorts are traded in RCI.
Most Marriott resorts are traded through II.
Starwood (Westin and Sheraton), Four Seasons and Hyatts are traded through II too.

Both HGVC and WM are one of the best traders in RCI. The only differences are :
1) WM owners can see HGVC bulk weeks as soon as they are depositted into RCI (no restriction like HGVC accounts)
2) WM owners use significantly less credits for the last minute exchanges (4,000 credits regardless a unit size you get)
3) WM trades in both RCI and II

As a trader, WM is better value than HGVC.


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## jekgirl (Dec 13, 2010)

Thank you for all your responses!  I recently rescinded @ Westin Lagunamar...beautiful resort

As I mentioned before, we are on the east coast.  It would be ideal to have some locations within driving distance, if at all possible.  That doesn't seem possible with Hilton/Worldmark/Hyatt.  A few of my friends own Wyndham. I haven't looked into Wyndham too closely because they don't seem as owner friendly as Hilton and Worldmark.  I know that anything can change as far as timeshare company rules (ie Marriott and Starwood), but as far as I can see, owners at Worldmark and Hilton seem to be relatively happy.  I really like that Worldmark has the 5% MF cap.  That seems pretty amazing that they don't participate in special assessments.  On the other hand, there is that special relationship that they have with Wyndham.   

For now, it's only my hubby and I...but we are looking to start a family.  We also have parents, in-laws, siblings, and friends whom we could travel with and/or gift stays to.  We generally travel about 2-3 weeks annually.  Our travels have mostly been international in the past few years, but we will probably stay closer to home once we have a family.  Both sets of parents are pretty much retired, so they have the opportunity to take advantage of any last minute deals that come their way.  Since we enjoy visiting new places, we need a really strong trader.  Right now we have the flexibility to travel at anytime, but that will change once we have kids.    

The quality of the resorts is very important to me.  I am a big fan of tripadvisor.  I don't want to get stuck paying a lifetime of maintenance fees only to be disappointed in the room/resort quality (I looked into Bluegreen and while I liked the variety of destinations for internal exchange, the quality doesn't seem to be consistently great).  Here are some examples of timeshares where I've stayed/seen that I consider acceptable to nice: Paradise Village Nuevo Vallarta, Kaanapali Beach Club Maui (formerly Embassy Suites), Park Royal Cancun, Cancun Caribe Park Royal Grand, Westin Lagunamar, El Cid Riviera Maya, and Bluegreen Club 36 Vegas.  

We don't want to pay exorbitantly high maintenance fees (no Hawaii timeshares for us).  Also, I would rather not be nickel and dimed for this fee and that fee.  I would rather pay 1 set amount in the MFs plus any applicable exchange fees.  Although not the best value for MF, the ability to trade points for Hilton HHonors would be nice once in awhile as we occasional travel to Thailand and it would be nice to accumulate points for stays there.        

Given your extensive knowledge and experience of the various programs...if you were in my place considering the above desires and wanted to purchase your first timeshare resale, how would you rank these choices?

1) Hilton 2 bedroom platinum Flamingo or Orlando
2) Worldmark 7000-10000 points (maybe start off with 7K since points can be rented)
3) Starwood (voluntary SBP/SDO)
4) Starwood (mandatory WKV/SVV)
5) Hyatt - I haven't researched enough to know the options
6) Other (?)

Also, with your previous HGVC/Worldmark trades in RCI and II, what was the typical timeframe for searching for and booking a trip...12 months or less than that?

Thanks again   I really appreciate everyone's help!


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

jestme said:


> I understand RCI's role that exercise, but what does HGVC get in exchange for it's deposits, and what does it do with them? Effectively, RCI acts as an exchange company, so when HGVC deposits, what does it get in return?



In RCI's old week exchange system, HGVC owners can see "everything" as a tiger trader. less valuable week owners couldn't see highly valuable weeks.
Now RCI changed it's weeks system to point based and as long as you have enough points (from one week or from combined weeks), you can get what you want.
However, HGVC accounts are the same, there's no change for point use.
I don't know how it will affect HGVC owners. It's too soon to know.
We used to get top tier trading power in return, but trading power is no matter now. HGVC owners still can have access for both point system and week system.
Maybe we will get priority for the ongoing request than other week owners?


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

If you are new to TS and doesn't know how to maximize exchanges, buy somewhere you can use regularly. If you buy a Hilton, they have a resort in NYC and several in Orlando, and HGVC has affiliation with Club Intrawest and CI has nice resorts. Marriott has the largest number of resorts (also in Thailand), and Marriott owners get internal exchange priority. I love visiting Marriott's Fairway Villas in Atlantic City for short weekend getaway and Barony Beach and Grande Ocean in Hilton Head Island and Ocean watch in myrtle beach. All these Marriotts (except fairway villas) are right on the beach with direct access to the beach.
I don't recommend starwood (either mandatory or voluntary) because they have limited number of resorts on eastcoast. Only SBP in myrtle beach, SVV and SVR in Orlando and Harborside in Atlantis. If you want Harborside, you need to buy a harborside week. You can find more information about it on starwood forum.
If you like skiing and key west, you will enjoy Hyatt. Hyatt also has great value as II trader, but I am not a Hyatt owner and I am not a big fan of skiing anymore since my oldest son fell from a ski lift when he was 11 years old and broke 2 rib bones.
Why don't you try out renting some weeks and decide which resort you like the most? You can rent a week for almost the same price as MF in this economy, you can try out different weeks/systems and decide.
You don't have to hurry, you can find the best (lowest) prices on ebay or elsewhere these days.



jekgirl said:


> Thank you for all your responses!  I recently rescinded @ Westin Lagunamar...beautiful resort
> 
> As I mentioned before, we are on the east coast.  It would be ideal to have some locations within driving distance, if at all possible.  That doesn't seem possible with Hilton/Worldmark/Hyatt.  A few of my friends own Wyndham. I haven't looked into Wyndham too closely because they don't seem as owner friendly as Hilton and Worldmark.  I know that anything can change as far as timeshare company rules (ie Marriott and Starwood), but as far as I can see, owners at Worldmark and Hilton seem to be relatively happy.  I really like that Worldmark has the 5% MF cap.  That seems pretty amazing that they don't participate in special assessments.  On the other hand, there is that special relationship that they have with Wyndham.
> 
> ...


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## yumdrey (Dec 13, 2010)

I forgot to mention one more thing.
If you have kid(s) in the future, maybe exchange will not work, because getting summer vacation or winter holiday weeks are very hard for desirable locations. That's why I bought Harborside, I have to go there during summer and it is very hard to get any week through SVN (using staroptions). St.John is next to impossible too.


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## jekgirl (Dec 13, 2010)

I would definitely consider Marriott, but it doesn't sound like it's a great time now because of all their points program changes...there seem to be a lot of owners who are unhappy with Marriott.  Do you think it's a good idea for a newbie to join Marriott amidst all the change?  Maybe that will become a better option in a few years (?).  I would love to have access to Atlantic City, Newport, Williamsburg, Thailand, and the other international resorts.

I guess it's down to Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham, or Worldmark.  I live in NY, so I don't have any use for Hilton NY.  The Club Intrawest properties sound nice, but they're not likely places we would travel to more than once, especially given the distance.  

With regards to school vacations, do you think it would be possible to exchange if we are flexible and plan things in advance?  Would Orlando always be an option since there is a lot of supply there?  School vacations probably won't become an issue for another 5-7 years.  Maybe we should try Worldmark since it is the least expensive trader option and see how we fair with exchanges in the next few years and re-evaluate.  What do you think?


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## alwysonvac (Dec 15, 2010)

*One size doesn't fit all*

Whatever you do....don't rush into a decision.
Read as much as you can before you make a final decision. There is plenty of information on TUG. I suggest using the search function to find previous discussions. 

Each system has it's PROs and CONs. You'll really need to determine what will fit your personal vacation needs based on what is most important to you.

I live on the East Coast and own WorldMark, Hilton, Four Seasons, Disney and I'm in the process of buying Starwood.

I bought WorldMark (WM) mainly for access to the other hotel based systems that trade with II (not RCI).
I bought Hilton mainly for access to Hilton Hawaiian Village and to take advantage of hotel stays at hotels with high nightly rates (however buying purely for hotel exchanges is not a good long term plan)
I'm currently in the process of buying Starwood for direct booking access (via StarOptions) and II priority preference window. LOL, I decided to bite the bullet eventhought I'm still leery about MF long term 

NOTE: I can travel anytime during the year and prefer to travel off season 

Instead of repeating myself, here are links to the threads that I shared my opinions.....
Things to keep in mind with HGVC - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121130 (see posts #6, 7 & 8) 
Why I chose WM - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45261 (see posts #5)
WM vs Marriott vs Starwood - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98574 (see posts # 10 & 25) [Note: this was before the Marriott points program was introduced]
HGVC vs WM - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131710 & http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133912
Renting - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101727
Renting vs Owning - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1002953&postcount=5


Good Luck


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## jekgirl (Dec 15, 2010)

alwysonvac said:


> Whatever you do....don't rush into a decision.
> Read as much as you can before you make a final decision. There is plenty of information on TUG. I suggest using the search function to find previous discussions.
> 
> Each system has it's PROs and CONs. You'll really need to determine what will fit your personal vacation needs based on what is most important to you.
> ...



alwaysonvac--

have you ever considered marriott?
have you been happy with worldmark?


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## GregT (Dec 15, 2010)

Jekgirl,

I would not buy a Marriott right now unless you found a specific property you were going to actually use consistently.  There is a great deal of uncertainty on what the Marriott availability (trading via II) is going to be in the future because of the new points program.   I think it will continue to be good, except for most desirable weeks/reservations.

Also, buying a Worldmark will give you surprisingly good trading access into Marriott -- I routinely get Studio's even in prime weeks, and have had good success getting larger units in shoulder seasons.

I love my Worldmark membership, but like AlwaysonVac, I use it primarily for trading.  I bought Hilton for access to Hawaii, and I bought Wyndham for access to St. Thomas.  Wyndham has a very nice network of properties on the east coast, and the up-front cost is negligible, but the MFs can be higher, so you have to shop carefully.

Good luck, and take your time -- please study your options!

Best,

Greg


(Phyllis, let me know your Starwood purchase works out -- that's very interesting!)


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## alwysonvac (Dec 15, 2010)

jekgirl said:


> alwaysonvac--
> 
> have you ever considered marriott?
> have you been happy with worldmark?




YES, I've considered Marriott but I'm very happy getting Marriott via WorldMark and/ or II getaways. 
I didn't like the priority booking rule for multiweek owners vs single week owners and the fact that they had no internal exchange system (all Marriott to Marriott trades were handled by Interval International). I dont' know much about the new point system. 
For more details see the link I previously provided regarding Marriott

YES, I'm very happy with WorldMark. It has satisfied my primary purpose.
Over the years, I've post over 2,000 exchange sightings on the wmowners forum (although I've haven't posted anything recently).
For more details see the link I previously provided regarding WorldMark (WM)


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## yumdrey (Dec 15, 2010)

Most of HGVC owners are happy (compared to Marriott and *wood).
All WM owners are happy 
WM owners are actively involved for the membership, benefits, rules changes, etc... I often get surprised how they (owners) are well informed and knowledgeable for system. Owners try to protect the ownership for better way and do whatever they can do for it (law suits, etc...).
I am happy with my Marriott week, it is uncertain how new system would change weeks owners in II exchanges, however, I believe there will be no significant changes in exchanges.
I just purchased another Marriott platinum week for a cheap price on ebay. I have a shadow ridge platinum week, which I depositted into II as "1BR + studio" and traded 1BR side to summer week of Marriott Fairway Villas 2BR and traded studio side to Marriott Cypress Harbour 2BR Christmas week of 2011. Through II, upgrade (getting larger unit than you deposit) is still possible and with II's XYZ promotion, I could get 2 more marriott weeks by paying only exchange fees.
Marriott week can get the best value if you do "ongoing search", because Marriott owners get the priority for other Marriott weeks before those weeks are released on online inventory. 
If you call Marriott/II rep, you will be surprised how many weeks they are hiding on their backs.
I don't think one system will satisfy you 100%, so do not expect too much from one system.


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## jekgirl (Dec 17, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> Most of HGVC owners are happy (compared to Marriott and *wood).
> All WM owners are happy
> WM owners are actively involved for the membership, benefits, rules changes, etc... I often get surprised how they (owners) are well informed and knowledgeable for system. Owners try to protect the ownership for better way and do whatever they can do for it (law suits, etc...).
> I am happy with my Marriott week, it is uncertain how new system would change weeks owners in II exchanges, however, I believe there will be no significant changes in exchanges.
> ...



yumdrey--i'm not sure i understand what this means "If you call Marriott/II rep, you will be surprised how many weeks they are hiding on their backs."

are you planning on keeping your weeks as weeks or converting to points?  i wonder what these changes will mean for the Marriott inventory in II?  so even with the Marriott changes, you think that a Marriott is better for getting into Marriott versus Worldmark because of the 24 day priority?  Is that only 12-13 months out or with any ongoing search?  Marriott seems to be taking a tougher stance with resale owners with the points changes if I'm reading into the situation correctly.  
how are the marriott maintenance fees compared to starwood in terms of stability?   Thanks!


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## jekgirl (Dec 17, 2010)

GregT said:


> Jekgirl,
> 
> I would not buy a Marriott right now unless you found a specific property you were going to actually use consistently.  There is a great deal of uncertainty on what the Marriott availability (trading via II) is going to be in the future because of the new points program.   I think it will continue to be good, except for most desirable weeks/reservations.
> 
> ...



GregT--do you only use Wyndham for their properties or do you use it to trade in RCI?  How's the trade power versus Worldmark?  I think they also changed their policy with the visible exchanges...right?


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## GregT (Dec 17, 2010)

jekgirl said:


> GregT--do you only use Wyndham for their properties or do you use it to trade in RCI?  How's the trade power versus Worldmark?  I think they also changed their policy with the visible exchanges...right?



I only use Wyndham for its internal system -- more specifically St. Thomas.  I understand from the Wyndham board that its a pretty weak trading property, very different from Worldmark.   Personally, I've never tried to trade it through RCI, so I can't speak from experience.

All the best,

Greg


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## yumdrey (Dec 17, 2010)

jekgirl said:


> yumdrey--i'm not sure i understand what this means "If you call Marriott/II rep, you will be surprised how many weeks they are hiding on their backs."
> 
> are you planning on keeping your weeks as weeks or converting to points?  i wonder what these changes will mean for the Marriott inventory in II?  so even with the Marriott changes, you think that a Marriott is better for getting into Marriott versus Worldmark because of the 24 day priority?  Is that only 12-13 months out or with any ongoing search?  Marriott seems to be taking a tougher stance with resale owners with the points changes if I'm reading into the situation correctly.
> how are the marriott maintenance fees compared to starwood in terms of stability?   Thanks!



No, I am not converting my weeks to point. I like the way of exchanging through II, I got what I wanted. If any II inventory will change due to new DC (I highly doubt it), I can rent the week or use myself. I always buy only lock-off 2BR platinum season to maximize trading power and separate the room for 2 exchanges.
Many Marriott weeks are not showing online and when you call Marriott/II rep, they can tell you which weeks they have. You SHOULD call them to check the extra inventory.
Most of the complains are from the owners who placed exchange requests for high season Hawaii and HHI. I have no plan to visit Hawaii in near future and I can use my starwood or Hilton instead of Marriott if I need to visit Hawaii. I also have 2 summer weeks in HHI, they are not Marriotts but similar quality resorts. I have never had any problem to get spring break week at Marriott in HHI during the last 2 years with my WM. 
Marriott's MF is much more stable and low compared to starwood. For example, I paid over $1,500 for westin mission hills in palm desert and paid $1,000 for marriott shadow ridge. Both are 2BR lock-off. If you check Hawaiian properties, marriott ocean club has about $1,000 less MF compared to westin kaanapali.
Marriott still has its value for marriott priority, like I mentioned above, it can be maximized when you put an ongoing search.
I had put ongoing search for marriott cypress harbour 2011 christmas week (2BR) by using both 10,000 WM credits (2BR) and studio side of shadow ridge platinum week. I got a match & confirmation with studio shadow ridge at the end of November. I called II and got a refund for WM ongoing search fee. According to that, marriott still has priority even though it is a studio side.
Marriott owners get the first pick for marriott deposits not just 12-13 months out, it's for year-round even during flexchange period (within 59 days from check-in). During flexchange period, priority is 3 days.


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