# Sticky - Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation



## Karen G

"If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."

*Profeco brochure specific to timeshare purchase in Mexico:  https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/montreal/images/pdf/documentacion/consumer.pdf

Here's a link to an English version of the Profeco site for consumers in general, not specific to timeshare sales, but might prove useful.
https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/montre...s/services-foreigners/318-consumer-protection posted 10-8-19*

PROFECO INFORMATION:

The Profeco has a dedicated office to assist non-Mexicans who are already outside the country, the Conciliation a Extranjeros. You can reach them by email at extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx or by phone at one of the following numbers:
(0155) 52 11 17 23,
(0155) 56 25 67 00,
(01 800) 46 88 722





*SEE POST #262 IN THIS THREAD FOR UPDATED INFORMATION*

The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.

Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/ 
TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.


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## Clintshare

*Just say no!*

I've been to Mexico many times and have been solicited to attend a TS presentation. Many TS sales promos in Mexico offer all sorts of goodies to entice you to the presentation. My experience has been that the initial contact is on the up and up...there is no secret that you will be going to a timeshare sales presentation for a particular resort in exchange for free golf, a bottle of tequila, $100.00 cash US dollars, a nice breakfast ... either all of these or a combination. So go spend the two hours or so, say NO THANK YOU, get your gifts and leave ... The reputable TS outfit will come thru with the gifts as promised. If you are really interested in purchasing a Mex time share.. head to a reseller. See what owners are asking for a resale at the property you are considering. Go to EBAY and track a few sales and see what a resort ends up going for. Good RCI Gold Crown places show up at resellers and on EBAY on a regular basis. And sometimes for 10 to 30 percent of the "developer price" and less! Do a little comparison shopping. 

A nice advantage is that the Mexican resorts are "Right to Use". Your obligation will go away in a fixed amount of years and you won't be trying to dump the property when you tire of it and want to stop paying the annual maintenance fee. Be aware that the financial "hit" you take when buying from the developer may be far worse than the new car purchase, should you want to sell in a week or so.


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## Karen G

Clintshare said:


> I've been to Mexico many times and have been solicited to attend a TS presentation. Many TS sales promos in Mexico offer all sorts of goodies to entice you to the presentation. My experience has been that the initial contact is on the up and up...there is no secret that you will be going to a timeshare sales presentation for a particular resort in exchange for free golf, a bottle of tequila, $100.00 cash US dollars, a nice breakfast ... either all of these or a combination. So go spend the two hours or so, say NO THANK YOU, get your gifts and leave ... The reputable TS outfit will come thru with the gifts as promised. If you are really interested in purchasing a Mex time share.. head to a reseller. See what owners are asking for a resale at the property you are considering. Go to EBAY and track a few sales and see what a resort ends up going for. Good RCI Gold Crown places show up at resellers and on EBAY on a regular basis. And sometimes for 10 to 30 percent of the "developer price" and less! Do a little comparison shopping.
> 
> A nice advantage is that the Mexican resorts are "Right to Use". Your obligation will go away in a fixed amount of years and you won't be trying to dump the property when you tire of it and want to stop paying the annual maintenance fee. Be aware that the financial "hit" you take when buying from the developer may be far worse than the new car purchase, should you want to sell in a week or so.


What you say is absolutely true and it's great if people know all that before they go to a presentation.  However, many posters here have found TUG after they've bought a Mexican timeshare and they are asking what their rights might be.


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## wtmaxwell

*El Cid Vacation Club is a Ripoff*

These guys will say anything to get you to sign. I did and regret it. They told my wife and I a bunch of lies and we believed them. When I went to book my first vacation, I was told that it does not work the way they sold it to me. They then ignored my emails and phone calls for months. I filed with PROFECO and they no showed the first 2 hearings. 
I tried to be resonable thinking I could eventually contact an ethical person in the company. They refuse to give you any mangement names because they have so many irrate customers.
This company is a scam and they know it. Do not stay at their resorts or attend there seminars. They will lie and then try and tell you they're not like they gave done to me and others.


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## stopfraud

*El Cid could not be as bad as Grupo Mayan*



wtmaxwell said:


> These guys will say anything to get you to sign. I did and regret it. They told my wife and I a bunch of lies and we believed them. When I went to book my first vacation, I was told that it does not work the way they sold it to me. They then ignored my emails and phone calls for months. I filed with PROFECO and they no showed the first 2 hearings.
> I tried to be resonable thinking I could eventually contact an ethical person in the company. They refuse to give you any mangement names because they have so many irrate customers.
> This company is a scam and they know it. Do not stay at their resorts or attend there seminars. They will lie and then try and tell you they're not like they gave done to me and others.



I have no experience with El Cid, but you should be glad that you did not go to Grupo Mayan (any of their resorts: Grand Mayan, Mayan Palace, Sea Garden, and now coming the Grand Bliss). El Cid is rated "C" by BBB, Grupo Mayan is rated "F".

Grupo Mayan runs the most aggressive, deceitful and fraudulent sales operation imaginable. It seems that they train their sales people to deliberately mislead, lie, coerce, intimidate, pressure, and  wear out the customers until they sign a contract. And they are very careful not to leave any door open for legal action against them.

There are many other scam operations like these two and it is too bad the US Government is not doing anything to stop them. It could pressure the Mexican Government to do something, or at least prevent Bank of America and other US banks from so willingly (and profitably) co-operate in the fraud.  All we can do is to vent our anger on various forums with no avail, then swallow our pride, cough up the money, and (hopefully) learn from the experience.

Most of those Mexican resorts are nice. Enjoy your time there. But, if you are invited to a presentation and you are not interested in buying, either don't go (those freebees are really not worth your vacation time) or BEFORE GOING TAKE A BIBLE AND SWEAR ON IT THAT YOU WILL NOT SIGN ANYTHING NO MATTER WHAT THEY OFFER, WHAT THEY DO! You will not regret it.

If you go to a presentation because you are actually interested in buying there, you will know it is a scam, when you say you want to think it over or that you are not interested, the "presenter" will call another sales person who will come up with another offer and other incentives. IF THAT HAPPENS, TRY TO GET UP AND LEAVE IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT IS A SCAM! Because if you still balk, a third person will come with other offers, then a fourth one, and they will begin to intimidate you, ridicule you, etc. RUN AWAY FROM THERE AS SOON AS YOU CAN!

In a decent operation, no second salesman will be called. The first person will thank you for your interest, give you the freebees, and cheerfully let you go on your way. For example Pueblo Bonito in Emerald Bay, Mazatlan, we visited last December.  First class resort and honest, no-pressure presentation. We wish we went there first, instead of Grupo Mayan. We would be tens of thousands of dollars richer and not having to live with the grueling pain that we were so naive that we let them so blatantly defraud us. Final advice: NEVER, EVER, GO TO A GRUPO MAYAN PRESENTATION!!


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## Clintshare

Re: Mayan Palace pitches in Mazatlan. I have been to a MP presentation twice. They are high pressure indeed, but I have not wilted, just said no, .. and eventually left with my promised gifts. The gifts are significant enough to warrant the 2 to 3 hours.... at least so far. Gifts are realkly great if it rains during the MP pitch! (smile)


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## pammex

Karen G's info is good for all to know before a presentaion......BEFORE!

I own many timeshares in Mexico and yes some of the sales tactics are less than scrupulous, you need to know what you are doing and of course resale is much better LOL

I am also a member of Mayan and have had no issues with my contract etc....all facets have been honored as stated...There are many happy Mayan members along with many unhappy ones...some of it was misunderstanding at presentaion or outright lies, and some of it is in just learning how to utilize it to you rbest advantage, like any other timeshare.

I have also been to PB Emerald Bay presentation and it was very low key...actually almost too low key..I have no clue how they sell any.  It is a lovely resort though and we may have bought had a little more umph been put in.....maybe a fractional or even fT owership, either way worked out for best!

Be informed...before atending..and yes the waivin gof your recind rights is against the law.....you have 5 days not including sundays....regardless of what you sign....but you must follow the procedure to the letter, and have a lot of patience.


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## keday

*Help!*

I think it is too late, but we purchased a Royal Elite membership at Sandos Playacar. (Playa Del Carmen)  It has been 16 days so our right to rescind is gone but do we have any other options to get out of this?  We made a 10% deposit and agreed to send the rest when we got our own funding. Unfortunately I found this site AFTER our mistake.  Also, I was wondering why I could not find this resort anywhere on the website... more concerning information.


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## rbarre

*Mexican Timeshares*

I've never heard information so true. I bought and have given up $25000 in Mexican timeshares. These were misrepresented on sale and/or violated their own purchase contract. Villla Varadero in Nuevo Vallarta/ and Rancho Banderas in Punta de Mita. Now I have another Mexican resort which I own, Club Regina, currently owned by Raintree Resorts Int'l Inc. based in Houston, TX that apparently wants to ignore previous contracts and charge a "special assessment" to make up for their bad management. 
My advice do not ever buy a timeshare, or what they chose to call it now ( they do not like the tag timeshare), in Mexico. If you must buy, go to the secondary market and buy it second hand. Someone said 30% cheaper, I say 98% cheaper. Just shop. I would have given mine away if anyone was interested. All in all I suggest that anyone who wants a Mexican vacation just rent the same timeshare without the headache of increasing maintenance fees.


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## rbarre

*Mexican Timeshares*

Let me add one more thing, and I will be blunt. Mexican timeshares exist because of a world full of gullible and stupid people. I was gullible to believe the well contrived lies of the sales pitch for the purchase of my timeshares. I was a sucker to believe they were truthful. I hoped beyond reason that any complaints on their breaches would be heard, and with much effort realized it would not happen. As stated above I gave up $25000 in Mexican timeshares. Believe me, I did not do this willingly. 
The truly stupid are those who do not recognize, or do not want to recognize, an abuse and maybe a sham, and worse excuse and defend the actions of these resorts who ignore your contracts. There are many stupid people, they rationalize and make it seem that all is ducky if you bow to the wants of the resort operator.
I may be gullible, but I am not stupid.


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## rani

*Groupo Mayan - confused*

I, stupidly bought a timeshare with Groupo Mayan on the 23rd of august this year, i was pressured at the airport and i decided to go to the presentation, only after i got back did i realise that this whole thing is a scam. I have paid around $5000 as down payment and still owe them $9000. The deposit was payed by credit card, i'm just wondering if i can somehow not pay the balance and get out of the contract. I am a british citizen and i live in london and so i don'.t know how the law would apply to me.  If anyone has any advice i would welcome it. Rani


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## nhkrystalcancun-scam

*Thank you so much, but a little late , they got us for 38, 000.00*

    yes it is very upsetting  and not only that , but it took all our savings... bad people , those from Krystal Cancun Vacation Club   .it is a scam , do not do it , do not sign.. anything ... go to a lawyer...





Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> 
> 
> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.


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## Toughbeat

nhkrystalcancun-scam said:


> yes it is very upsetting  and not only that , but it took all our savings... bad people , those from Krystal Cancun Vacation Club   .it is a scam , do not do it , do not sign.. anything ... go to a lawyer...



Are you past the 5 day rescission period?


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## moneypit23

Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> Is there anything, anything at all, that someone like myself can do to get out of this AFTER the 5 day period has passed?  I was made to sign the waiver on a, now much regretted, purchase at Occidental Xcaret last month (on my honeymoon  ).  They made sure that they gave my wife a few drinks to soften her resistance then left us to argue it out.  Unfortunately she won. :annoyed:
> 
> God, I'd even pay up the full cost just to get the contract ripped up.


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## Karen G

moneypit23 said:


> Is there anything, anything at all, that someone like myself can do to get out of this AFTER the 5 day period has passed?


You can file a claim with Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. In the first post of this thread there's a link to Profeco.


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## moneypit23

Karen G said:


> You can file a claim with Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. In the first post of this thread there's a link to Profeco.



Thanks,  I have Emailed them.  Can anyone give me a "heads up" on what I can expect with regard to the process or timescale?  I'd happily cut my losses at 50% of the total cost now.  Lesson learned.  How do these people sleep at night...


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## Karen G

Spend some time reading through this long thread.  I believe there are some reports from people who used Profeco.  You might also want to start a new thread in the Mexico forum asking for people's experiences with Profeco.  Since this thread is a sticky at the top of the forum, it may not be seen by as many people who would see a new thread down in the forum postings.


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## TacoTerry

*G and G Timeshare Solutions*



Karen G said:


> You can file a claim with Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. In the first post of this thread there's a link to Profeco.



We are another scammed Krystal-Cancun owner, I have contacted G&G for their opinion on our situation. Have you or anyone else heard of this legal outfit? We got their name and site off of TUG's site thinking that it is on the up and up. Hope so, and if we get something in settlement we will certainly share the info.


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## Karen G

TacoTerry said:


> We are another scammed Krystal-Cancun owner, I have contacted G&G for their opinion on our situation. Have you or anyone else heard of this legal outfit? We got their name and site off of TUG's site thinking that it is on the up and up. Hope so, and if we get something in settlement we will certainly share the info.


Please keep us informed as to the outcome.  It will be interesting to learn what their fee is and how this all will play out.


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## suzanne17

I' m considering going with Gand G as well after being scammed by Grand Bliss salespeople March 1st.  I'm so angry right now at their continual belief that we're all stupid that I don't think I can travel there again.


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## TacoTerry

*follow up on G&G*



Karen G said:


> Please keep us informed as to the outcome.  It will be interesting to learn what their fee is and how this all will play out.



  WE had a phone conference with the folks at G&G timeshare solutions, they were very upfront with us and seemed to be genuine in helping us and not just trying to get more of our money.  After getting all the information from us during our call, Cindi, our attorney, gave us the news that we had less than a 50/50 chance of recovering any money from Krystal, but G&G can get our contract cancelled out. Guaranteed. We just loose all our money that we have paid to Krystal.  Not a great option but it is an option.  Our mf has already gone up before we paid our first one, what's next?   We have to decide to either cut and run or dig in and fight, we're leaning towards a good fight.

 They charge $1400 to cancel a contract and they guarantee that it will get cancelled, you pay them after the legal work is done, not before, like some of the other attorneys that we checked out.
  They get 25% of any recovered money if you go that route, and that is a separate matter from cancelling the contract. Again, paid after the recovery is made. The consultation/ phone conference is free, Penner wanted $500.
just to chat
  I had an e-mail forwarded to me by a tugger from a fellow who used G&G and he did recover his money, and it was paid out the same as we were quoted by G&G, and he would recommend using them to other folks, so they do seem to be honest and upfront. .  . . . Unlike the scumbag team of Steve Levy and Rafael Septien at the Krystal-Cancun,  Our attorney did say that those two slime-balls are really good at stealing peoples money, and Septien is one of the more clever closers in Mexico. Clever in that he rarely makes a mistake when he is stealing your money, and he smiles at you all the while that He's got his hand in your wallet. I hate that. 

  PS.  They have taken on Krystal, some wins and some losses, so far.  Anyone else wanna pick a fight?  

            TacoTerry


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## Nashville Contact

What is G & G email address, please?


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## TacoTerry

*G&G e-mail*



Nashville Contact said:


> What is G & G email address, please?



Hi 

  The E-mail for this law firm is info@timesharescam.com, 1-888-275-3595
   Good luck


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## waiver_scammed_Canada

*Premier by Original Timeshare Scam*

Premier by Original Resorts (formerly Blue Bay Club) is also in the habit of selling timeshares with the use of the illegal waivers that everyone is mentioning.  Our waiver stated that we waived our right to the five day rescission period AND would not be receiving a refund on our deposit if we cancelled our membership.  There was never anything stated about a 5 day recsindion period ever.  Only after we returned to Canada and started to do some research did I realize that we had been scammed.  Keep in mind they may offer you a cancellation of your membership, but what they are really after is your deposit.  DO NOT sign with Premier by Original Resorts (aka Original Resorts, Blue Bay Club)


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## suzanne17

suzanne17 said:


> I' m considering going with Gand G as well after being scammed by Grand Bliss salespeople March 1st.  I'm so angry right now at their continual belief that we're all stupid that I don't think I can travel there again.



I'm pleased to advise that I didn't need to go with G & G as the Grand Bliss Resort has resolved my complaint satisfactorily.


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## Karen G

Suzanne, that's great news. Congratulations.


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## TacoTerry

Karen G said:


> Suzanne, that's great news. Congratulations.



That is so cool that you got your money back!!  Have a shot to celebrate!!

    Karen, this is for you.  I'm new to this stuff and would like your opinion on an offer from another tugger.  We were both scammed by Krystal-Cancun and on my follow up post about G&G I put out an invite to join the fight against them(krystal) to get our money back, they asked about doing just that.  I'm of the opinion that strength in numbers is not just a saying, but a good plan. Has this been done before by tuggers? Did it get them anything other than heartache?  Let me know what you think, I'll check in tomorrow.

   TacoTerry


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## Karen G

TacoTerry said:


> I'm of the opinion that strength in numbers is not just a saying, but a good plan. Has this been done before by tuggers? Did it get them anything other than heartache?  Let me know what you think, I'll check in tomorrow.


 I'm not aware of any organized effort by Tuggers, but it certainly would be interesting to follow.


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## nigelbees

*Grand Bliss Grupo Mayan Scam*

I also was scammed,in purchasing a Grand Bliss in Cancun. Since the Grupo Mayan never even built one.Was interested in learning how you where able to get satisfied without using G & G services
Thanks
Anthony


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## DeniseM

Hi Anthony - This paragraph in the first post directs you to a Mexican Consumer Protection Agency that helps consumers:



> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.


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## J. Gonzalez

According to Mexican Consumer Protection Laws, consumers have a right to rescind their timeshare contract within 5 business days. Article 56 of the Federal Consumer Protection Law states.

According to Article 1 of the Federal Consumer Protection Law in Mexico the right to cancel within 5 working days cannot be waived. This sales practice is fraudulent and illegal.

Greetings,
Jose Gonzalez


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## Tropical lady

*a scam or lack of understanding?*

I've been enjoying TUG since I found the web site last Nov.  I don't post many replies, but feel strongly about some of the comments made in this thread.  Upfront, I am an owner with Grupo Mayan. 
Nigelbees claims a scam for Grupo Mayan's Grand Bliss since it was not built when he purchased the ts.  This was noted upfront during our presentations with a proposed completion date and the resorts' timeline. It IS available in Nuevo Vallarta this Nov for reservations.  Did you know that until it was available that you could stay at the Grand Mayan at any resort for a substantial discount?
Suzanne17, I am glad your problems were resolved.  You stated a scam, but did not give specifics.  I know several people who did rescind without any problem until they negotiated more addendums into the final contract.
I am fortunate to have had only positive experiences with this company as well as many others on the owners' web site.  Friends continue with good experiences with their companies.  Yes, occasionally there are issues, but they have always been resolved beyond my expectation.   
I am NOT inferring that some of you did not have a problem.  My first question at each presentation was  concerning the time frame to rescind.  Since we never bought into the ts concept we peppered sales with questions for the info we wanted.  We got the info we wanted, negotiated addendums, and have enjoyed 4 years of ownership at all levels.  This was all possible to the threads on TUG and the owners' web sites.  If the concept interests you, do homework before the presentation or walk away when the time is up.


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## DAKOTATEX

Agree with Tropical Lady; I would like to ask her or any other "Mayan" owners if they have canceled their contract within the 5yrs and received RCI wks to be used over 5yrs (one wk per $1000. pd on purchase price)???  We have an addenum to our contract that this is possible.  It would seem to be worth more $$ than selling for such a low price and paying the high transfer fee.
Dakota Tex


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## Tropical lady

Thanks Dakotatex for agreeing with me.  
After reviewing my posted comments, I did not state effectively what I wanted to say.  Keeping it brief, while I recognize there ARE true scammers out there AND it is very important to share that info with others, I feel we need to report the true picture.  If you yielded to high pressure, could not say no, or did not attempt to go back to the company for clarification of purchase/rescind, then it was not a scam.  
I hear (between the lines) through some of these posts....that the person had second thoughts.  Ok, then speak with the company...get clarification....ask questions.  I would not think that most ts companies want bad press and do rely on customer satisfaction for a good business reputation.  To jump to legal assistance as the first step is interesting.  We've already seen a posted complaint, then it was resolved before legal action was needed.  Scammed because new units were not built yet.....but they are as of Nov....AND the inconveience was offset by substantial discount at the next level.  Anyhow, enough of this....
I do not have this addenedum regarding RCI.  We have done the timeshare ladder through 4 levels with lots of negotiated addendums, but never heard of this one.  Have I been scammed? (just getting a dig in) Interesting concept but am confused.  If you have spent $20,000 and you get 1 week per thousand then are you talking 20 weeks for 5 years?


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## MachineGuy

*Nervous Mayan Buyer*

I recently visited the Mayan in Cancun and while I wasn't really looking to purchase a timeshare with them it was the 2nd time I visited, I really liked the property and I already owned a timeshare in St. Marrten that really wasn't working for me.  So long story short I traded in my St. Marrten time share for the Mayan....upgading from 1wk studio to 2wks/2bdrm.  My down payment was approx 6k with a total cash out of 18k.  After joining TUG and reading through this I feel pretty stupid for not being more prepared.  My biggest concern at this point is that I traded in my other timeshare for an agreed 19k...but it now seems to be in question as to whether this is even legit.  My 11k comes due July 26th...does anyone have any advice for this foolish traveller?  It's past the 5 day period so I can't cancel but I'd like to get some assurance that they will honor the 19k trade in price with tatw.


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## Tropical lady

*You should be ok....*

I certainly can't guarantee that everything will go through as you UNDERSTOOD what the terms of your sale are, but having gone through 3 upgrades/contracts after the initial purchase I can state that we have not had a problem.  If it is in writing in the contract, it will be honored.  You should review your contract in detail now that you are back home, especially concerning how it is written about your t/s trade in.  Address any questions to the member services person (legal person who put the paperwork together which you signed) for clarification or concerns.  They want to keep you happy and will negotiate an addendum or correct a misunderstanding.  You should have their card....if not and you need to reach them...call customer service and ask for member services to call you.
This last time we did have one concern which was taken care of beyond our expectations!
Make sure you have the "waiver for mandatory maintenance fee".  This is the reason we bought in the first place as we did not believe in the t/s concept.  You want to only pay the MF when you use the week/s, not a yearly bill.  If you don't have this ask for it.  2 weeks in a 2 bdrm for your $'s is a good deal.  If you split the 2 bdrms, you have 4 weeks!! And, you have the other resorts to visit without exchange.  Others on here will say run and buy retail, but be happy and get ready to enjoy a great timeshare.  To help....there is a Mayan Owner's Group on Yahoo which has a forum for the exchange of info.
Hope this helps.......


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## DAKOTATEX

Tropical lady said:


> Thanks Dakotatex for agreeing with me.
> After reviewing my posted comments, I did not state effectively what I wanted to say.  Keeping it brief, while I recognize there ARE true scammers out there AND it is very important to share that info with others, I feel we need to report the true picture.  If you yielded to high pressure, could not say no, or did not attempt to go back to the company for clarification of purchase/rescind, then it was not a scam.
> I hear (between the lines) through some of these posts....that the person had second thoughts.  Ok, then speak with the company...get clarification....ask questions.  I would not think that most ts companies want bad press and do rely on customer satisfaction for a good business reputation.  To jump to legal assistance as the first step is interesting.  We've already seen a posted complaint, then it was resolved before legal action was needed.  Scammed because new units were not built yet.....but they are as of Nov....AND the inconveience was offset by substantial discount at the next level.  Anyhow, enough of this....
> I do not have this addenedum regarding RCI.  We have done the timeshare ladder through 4 levels with lots of negotiated addendums, but never heard of this one.  Have I been scammed? (just getting a dig in) Interesting concept but am confused.  If you have spent $20,000 and you get 1 week per thousand then are you talking 20 weeks for 5 years?



That is my understanding. Haven't had time to verify and will be off line until mid Aug!  We purchased GM in N.Vallarta in Feb 2008.


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## haewon00001@aol.com

[Upon further reflection, I've removed my post]


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## Antunalu

TacoTerry said:


> That is so cool that you got your money back!!  Have a shot to celebrate!!
> 
> Karen, this is for you.  I'm new to this stuff and would like your opinion on an offer from another tugger.  We were both scammed by Krystal-Cancun and on my follow up post about G&G I put out an invite to join the fight against them(krystal) to get our money back, they asked about doing just that.  I'm of the opinion that strength in numbers is not just a saying, but a good plan. Has this been done before by tuggers? Did it get them anything other than heartache?  Let me know what you think, I'll check in tomorrow.
> 
> TacoTerry



I am new at this, but I am another one that did a dumb thing and bought into Krystal.  I have also talked to Sandra at G&G and received their contract.  I am still hesitant, because I'm not sure what route to go yet.  Steve Levy was a good actor along with his wife, Maria, in May 2010 and convinced us to purchase for investment purpose only since I already have timeshares that I use.  Yeah right, some investment?


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## TacoTerry

*Steve Levy @ Krystal with new side kick*



Antunalu said:


> I am new at this, but I am another one that did a dumb thing and bought into Krystal.  I have also talked to Sandra at G&G and received their contract.  I am still hesitant, because I'm not sure what route to go yet.  Steve Levy was a good actor along with his wife, Maria, in May 2010 and convinced us to purchase for investment purpose only since I already have timeshares that I use.  Yeah right, some investment?



Antunalu,  Sorry for  not seeing your post earlier,  Haven"t been back on this thread in a while.  How did you do? What did you do?  My wife and I are trying to rent out some of our weeks at Krystal and we are hoping for better times to get here soon, for sure!  We haven"t had much luck at all.  If you went with Regal Resales you"ll never hear from them. The whole world is coming to Cancun for a huge conference and not one rental call from them, they are just lame.

  I did a double take on Steve's new partner,  Maria, She was a dentist when we talked with the scammers.  Steve was going to set us up for new crowns on our next trip!!  We're heading down in April '11, maybe she can fix Steve's teeth after our visit.


----------



## ZetaZu

I feel the same way in regards to the Mayan Group. I was there in 2009 invited to a presentation and lure by the "gifts" short of the story I ended up buying the membership almost cash. I bought the Grand Bliss membership totally blind and pushed by the salesman. I thought I was the only one with the remorse, and fury with myself about making the decision based in the pressure they put on you, and the fact of being  deceived by the salesman. After hours and hours of talking and talking try to scape and not be able to, however at the end the result was I gave up. It was almost like I was and animal trapped in by a hungry predator. I feel very stupid and regret every day my decision. Now I have to learn to take advantage of my timeshare and how to use it, since I am new in the timeshare world. Thanks to TUG I been able to get over my rage, and frustration. Now I can see that I have options by exchanging my weeks and be informed. I will join in the effort of beware more people of this fraudulent company The Grand Mayan Group.


----------



## Tropical lady

ZetaZu,
I'm sure that you have seen the other posts in the Mexican forum about Grupo Mayan.  If not, there is a thread (Grupo Mayan=Rip off) started by Duane on 12/5 about the presentation issue and the high pressure.  A Grupo Mayan representative did post two responses.  She (Karen Rose) gave several ways (I think on pages 2&3) to communicate these issues back to her and the company. Even though time has gone by since your purchase in 2009, it would be constructive to at least let them know your experience.
While those of us who do own a Grupo Mayan t/s and really enjoy it, we don't condone the sales tactics. I just returned from Nuevo and did address this topic with sales and customer service.  But it would have more of an impact from someone who experienced the hard sell.
The Grand Bliss in Nuevo is gorgeous and would be worth a try!
Hope this helps......


----------



## scammedtoo

*Pueblo Bonito*

Does anyone have any experience in canceling a timeshare contract with Pueblo Bonito Resort in Mexico within the 5 day cancellation period?  

I bought a timeshare and regretted it immediately after I left their resort. They opened up a Bank of America RCI card and put almost $12,000 on it.  When I got to my hotel, i went through the contract and realized that the contract didn't make sense and I noticed some things were missing in the file of paperwork they gave me.  Then I googled them from my hotel lobby and read all the negative stuff which scared me even more.   I sent a cancellation email that night which the sales manager who sold it to me responded to a few days later, asking why I would want to cancel and how he can make it better for me, but I haven't responded.  I have cc'ed the email to PROFECO as well.  I heard that's all you need.  To be on the safe side, I mailed a cancellation letter via UPS which requires a signature confirmation and it should arrive to their resort today.

I hired G & G to work for me as well since I heard Pueblo Bonito are extremely hard to work with (they will dodge you as much as they can to discourage you from canceling) and they don't ask money up front which is great.  I haven't heard any negative things about G &G  online so I'm hoping that they are an honest company.  I will let everyone know what the outcome is. 

BUt in the meantime, if anyone has ANY information they can provide, I'd really appreciate it!


----------



## Karen G

scammedtoo said:


> Does anyone have any experience in canceling a timeshare contract with Pueblo Bonito Resort in Mexico within the 5 day cancellation period?


If you followed the rescission instructions exactly as given in your contract you shouldn't need any more help from an attorney. Hopefully the letter you sent was postmarked within the five-day period.

You should also notify the credit card company that you have rescinded the contract within the rescission period and challenge any charges made on it.


----------



## scammedtoo

Karen G said:


> If you followed the rescission instructions exactly as given in your contract you shouldn't need any more help from an attorney. Hopefully the letter you sent was postmarked within the five-day period.
> 
> You should also notify the credit card company that you have rescinded the contract within the rescission period and challenge any charges made on it.


Thanks for your response, Karen.  

Yes- the letter I sent was post-marked within the 2nd day after I signed the contract so that's good.  UPS notified us that it was delivered and signed by someone from the resort.  In addition, I have the sales manager's response to my original cancellation email I sent the day that I bought the timeshare, so he can't say he didn't receive my email. 

As far as the credit card company (BOA) goes, I have contacted them, but they told me that the resort has 15 days to respond to my request.  If they don't cooperate, then I can dispute the charges.  So we have until next week. 
I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## Grupo Mayan

Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


----------



## Grupo Mayan

nigelbees said:


> I also was scammed,in purchasing a Grand Bliss in Cancun. Since the Grupo Mayan never even built one.Was interested in learning how you where able to get satisfied without using G & G services
> Thanks
> Anthony



Dear Mr. Mattiacci:

We are pleased to inform you that The Grand Bliss just opened in Nuevo Vallarta this past November of 2010, and it is already under construction in Riviera Maya. Generally, a resort construction takes between two and three years from the start of construction date to be completed, this is the normal time span. As you may know there are several factors beyond our control (weather, floods, acts of god, etc) which may alter the delivery of the resort. It is in our best interest to open the resorts as fast as possible and we are one of the fastest builders in the industry. However, out of care for our clients, as stated in the contract, we do not make any representations on an expected opening dates.

Rest assured we are looking after our honoured Grand Bliss members' interests, and for that reason, Grand Bliss owners are welcome to use The Grand Mayan facilities until the construction is completed at Riviera Maya.

Hoping this information is useful, please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions regarding your membership with us through the proper channels at customerservice@thegrandbliss.com or by telephone at: 1-800-996-2926.

We are committed to helping you understand the great value of acquiring a membership with us, as well as the significant benefits we offer to our members. Our hard work is focused on developing a great product and surpassing your expectations.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


----------



## qkitty

scammedtoo said:


> Thanks for your response, Karen.
> 
> Yes- the letter I sent was post-marked within the 2nd day after I signed the contract so that's good.  UPS notified us that it was delivered and signed by someone from the resort.  In addition, I have the sales manager's response to my original cancellation email I sent the day that I bought the timeshare, so he can't say he didn't receive my email.
> 
> As far as the credit card company (BOA) goes, I have contacted them, but they told me that the resort has 15 days to respond to my request.  If they don't cooperate, then I can dispute the charges.  So we have until next week.
> I'll keep everyone posted.



Be aware you only have 60 days from the posted transaction date to start the dispute claim with Bank of America.

Since we did not rescind our contract within the 5 days they told us we could not open a dispute claim. 

Does anyone have any advice on what to do next? We will contact Prefeco too.


----------



## oldbuyer

*need Profeco contact information in Cabo san Lucas*

I searched inline but thought someone had just been to a local Cabo Profeco office.
I need to deliver my complaint to Profeco and Pueblo Bonito and can serve the resort and local Profeco office in person but need an address (or phone number) for the Cabo office. Any one have the numbers??
Email for Profeco Cabo would be nice too
Gracias


----------



## Karen G

I've never heard that there was a local branch of Profeco in Cabo, but it would be great if there is one. I found  this information about tourism boards for the Baja area and further down the page is contact info for Profeco.

Maybe contacting the tourism boards would be helpful, too, as it says they accept complaints.


----------



## am1

Not quite on topic but do you guys think that the recission period actually hurts prosective buyers more than it helps.  Salesmen says you have 5 days to cancel if your not interested.  That gets more people to purchase as they can "cancel" if they want.  Like rebates retails stores offer to get people to buy when they know only a low % will actually jump through the hoops.


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## Tropical lady

*Interesting thought....."impact of right to rescind"*

AM1, you brought up an interesting topic.  Perhaps this should be a new thread with a different title such as "the impact of right to rescind" since the topic covers all time shares.
My husband and I would not have even entertained the possibility of buying the first time if there was not a time period to rescind.  In fact, that was the first question we asked and wanted to see where it was written before we went through the presentation.  Up to that time, the t/s concept was not of interest to us plus we were very skeptical. Soooooo, we would not have bought initially or done subsequent upgrades without a way out.
I can see your point about having that ability to rescind and that maybe more people buy and don't exercise it.  If it was not there then many more would not even do the purchase.  Interesting!!


----------



## scammedtoo

*Pueblo Bonito*

I bought a Timeshare from Pueblo Bonito on 1/24/2011 for almost $12,000 and cancelled within the 5 days.  Initially it was hard to get them to respond, but it eventually worked out.  

Although I had to do a lot of writing email back forth and send the certified mail, I am happy to say that they honored my wishes and cancelled the contract and as of today, my balance is zero!!  I closed that credit card account asap.  It was the BOA RCI card that they opened up at the resort.  I am now waiting for the official cancellation letter which they say they've mailed out and can take up to 6 weeks (which I thought was ridiculous), but regardless, they've said it in an email so I'm not worried.  

My suggestion is to follow the advise that MESCAM gives www.mescam.com.  I used their sample letter and I actually think that helped out.  You can contact me if you have questions.


----------



## Karen G

scammedtoo said:


> My suggestion is to follow the advise that MESCAM gives www.mescam.com.  I used their sample letter and I actually think that helped out.


Thanks for that link. There is excellent advice at that website. I especially liked the suggestion to take your video camera with you when you go to the sales office to rescind your contract. Video tape the whole transaction for further proof that your rescinded within the five-day period. Of course, keeping a copy of your rescission letter and insisting that someone in the office sign it and date it before you leave is a must.

So glad to hear that you were able to rescind and get your deposit back.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*To Rescind A Contract With The Grupo Mayan Has Been A Nightmare, Should Not Attend*



There has been talk of rescinding a contract with the Grupo Mayan.  From my perspective when I went there in person they did not want to hear of it.  The fact that it is written on paper in your contract makes no difference to them!  They are not going to honour it either way.  The fact that they eventually cancelled the contract was due to pressure on them through the internet.  The theory and the practice are two separate issues concerning the Grupo Mayan.  The reception is totally unwelcoming and non supportive.   

I think that the legal muscle of the courts to enforce the law is very "flabby".  How else would you explain the complete indifference that you are met with when you wish to rescind within the given five day period?  Any one who says that it is easy is not telling the truth at all.  I have been there and seen how it is.....they are quick to take your money but not to act lawfully!

That has been my experience!


----------



## DeniseM

Vera V Christopher said:


> I think that the legal muscle of the courts to enforce the law is very "flabby".



You do realize that you are talking about "the law" in Mexico and not in the UK or the US?  Mexico is practically a 3rd world country and no, one cannot depend on the protection of the law there.  Maybe in the UK you don't hear much about Mexico, but they are in the middle of a drug war and they don't seem to be on the winning side.  

I have no doubt that you were ripped off, but expecting the protection of the law in Mexico is pretty naive.  Your best bet is to come to a private agreement with Grupo Mayan.


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## Tropical lady

*enough!!!*

Vera,
You have ranted about your experiences enough through several threads.  We get it!!  For those of us who have not experienced your presentation...we get it.  There are many of us who fortunatly, by luck, the stars, or whatever, enjoy this resort.  I am not discounting that you have had a negative experience....I GET IT and am trying to sympathize.  But if you have read some of the feedback you have got to realize that what you post goes beyond the realm of reasonable.  They do not hide in Mexico...they are there.  They do give you means to communicate.  They do not surround you and sing in a chorus.  They do not drug you....did your friend have a problem?  Friends have rescinded their contracts and renogiated without a problem, and my husband and myself too. A positive...you were impressed with the toilets.  We have tapdanced around your posts being nice, informative and offering support.  I ( not speaking for anyone else) think it is time to say enough.  I do wish you well and hope you come to a resolution.
Please be clear.....I am not inferring that you did not have a problem, misunderstood what you bought, or delibertly were mislead.  I DO know that your contract is honored and that they do work with you to make sure that what you thought you bought is in the contract.  Please be clear that I do know that there is a pressured sales presentation and do not condone this, but at some time we do have to take responsibility for our decisions and resulting actions.  Regards and hope this comes to a resolution.


----------



## Howardfox

Terry thanks for this.   Some of the "legal services" sound like real ambulance chasers, and I wonder about how much we can legally do for ourselves if we have the rights.  Can we go it alone, do you think?


----------



## Karen G

Howardfox said:


> Terry thanks for this.


Who is Terry? 

Note to Howard:  We don't appreciate scammers who pose as newcomers looking for information.  That wouldn't be you, would it?


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## Howardfox

Karen - From my experience of other forums, moderators like people to post and get involved.  If you don't like my posts, I guess I should just read and not speak!

I thought I was replying to a post by someone called Terry - maybe my incompetence there will demonstrate I am a learner, not some undercover professional.

I'm glad I didn't already pay the 15 Dollars.


----------



## Karen G

Howardfox said:


> Karen - From my experience of other forums, moderators like people to post and get involved.


We like that here, too, and everyone is welcome to post and get involved as long as they adhere to TUG posting rules.


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## Vera V Christopher

*Surrounded By Grupo Mayan Reps And "chanted At" As We Were One Of Last To Leave!*



Tropical lady said:


> Vera,
> You have ranted about your experiences enough through several threads.  We get it!!  For those of us who have not experienced your presentation...we get it.  There are many of us who fortunatly, by luck, the stars, or whatever, enjoy this resort.  I am not discounting that you have had a negative experience....I GET IT and am trying to sympathize.  But if you have read some of the feedback you have got to realize that what you post goes beyond the realm of reasonable.  They do not hide in Mexico...they are there.  They do give you means to communicate.  They do not surround you and sing in a chorus.  They do not drug you....did your friend have a problem?  Friends have rescinded their contracts and renogiated without a problem, and my husband and myself too. A positive...you were impressed with the toilets.  We have tapdanced around your posts being nice, informative and offering support.  I ( not speaking for anyone else) think it is time to say enough.  I do wish you well and hope you come to a resolution.
> Please be clear.....I am not inferring that you did not have a problem, misunderstood what you bought, or delibertly were mislead.  I DO know that your contract is honored and that they do work with you to make sure that what you thought you bought is in the contract.  Please be clear that I do know that there is a pressured sales presentation and do not condone this, but at some time we do have to take responsibility for our decisions and resulting actions.  Regards and hope this comes to a resolution.




Oh, yes, it did happen.  We were one of the last people to leave the glass auditorium and we were "chanted at" metaphorically speaking.  We were surrounded by about five reps all eager to "finish the deal of the century". They were practically chanting in unison, watching my eyelids shut!  This did actually happened!  That is "pressure" alright.   That is real pressure!!!! Why would that be so, so "impossible" bearing in mind that they are very "cheeky" to put it mildly, as they say here in the UK.   Perhaps I did expect a lot from Mexican law but being that they are a business there I expected them not to go against the laws in such a flagrant manner!  It was definitely a "culture shock".   A big one!    I realised that the law is very feeble there and that the larger companies are taking the stand that THEY ARE THE LAW.  This takes some getting used to coming from Western Europe or the States.  As I lived in North America also.  Well as you say across the pond "It just ain't right, man!"

Are you being absolutely reasonable about this?  I did not say that the Mayan Palace was not exotic in many ways, because it is....and the pools are fantastic, and the little buggies, and the clocks  at  every bus stop, and the buildings are impressive, it is a real ivory tower.  The beach was not the best, as you might be aware, there are rocks on it and it is not a normal kind of "exotic" beach scene.  But the rest of it reminded me a little of Disneyland, it has a holiday atmosphere and the gardens are extremely well kept!  I am not decrying that at all.  That is why the visitor cannot fail to be impressed, and if he should use their washroom he will be "flabergasted", as they say here, to see such "supersonic" toilets!!!  Very twenty first century in every way.  I don't recall if they are like that in the apartments but certainly in the main building you will be very surprised at the level of hygiene and advanced facilities!   No denying it.  However the sales pressure and what is more serious the lies are devastatingly manipulative to gain the interest of the potential buyer who will soon see that they are blatant lies and nothing more within hours or sooner of leaving the glass auditorium!  Lovely as the surroundings are and do not forget those exotic birds in the tall trees where the restaurant is, what a view!!!!  I shall always picture that view.  It was really something.  Mexico has a very beautiful natural beauty, no doubt about it.  And the wild turkey roaming around are just lovely to see!!  Those rather large, black, awkward birds are very charming.  But the downside is the dishonesty of the reps and the way that they are encouraged to say whatever it is that your ears like to hear!!!regardless of the accuracy of what they are saying.  

And as you know, there are many disgruntled, unhappy customers of the Mayan who fill the websites daily with similar complaints, related mostly to the presentations and negotiations during which they were told lies and later identified them as such, but the deal had been struck and there was no getting out.  I do see that some have been retracted, the statements, that is,  so I assume that some of these grievances are resolved in the end.  Perhaps this amalgamation with the Wyndham will make a difference.  Let us hope so!  It just needn't be that aggressively dishonest!  Honesty is by far the best policy in the end!  Wouldn't you agree?!


----------



## barbiebonita

*Howard was thanking Terry 'TacoTerry'  post #18 right?*

TacoTerry or Scammedtoo. 
Can you please tell me how did the Gonzales and Gonzales Law Firm work out?
I never saw what happened with TacoTerry but Scammedtoo cancelled; did Gonzales and Gonzales bill you - even though it seemed you got out of the deal on your own?  Please let me know.  I have friends in a jam and they need a good lawyer, I see todays report on the complaintsboard.com and it seems not too good, I have asked questions there too.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/ambulance-chasing-c428940.html

Please tell.

Barbara


----------



## DeniseM

Gonzales & Gonzales is a Mexican firm - if you have problems with them, you won't have the protection of American law.  They applied to advertise on TUG, and were turned down, because they charge an upfront fee.  Later, they claimed they changed their policy, but people who have been contacted by them said that isn't true - they still charge an upfront fee.


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## barbiebonita

*Does anyone know for sure?*

Thank you Denise,

Who said this about Gonzales and Gonzales........re. charging upfront fees ???
Because on their website it clearly says



"100% Cancellation rate for timeshare scam. Service guaranteed"

"100% Contingency basis guarantee." That means you DO NOT PAY unless you get results. 

Miguel Garcia from Spain says he has seen a copy of their contract, I have asked him if he has still got it.

Does anyone have a copy of their contract?  

Any info is welcome

Barbara


----------



## barbiebonita

*The Contract Gonzalez and Gonzalez*







Hi Everyone,  

I have been in contact with Miguel Garcia form the complaintsboard.com and his wife 'Jane' has expanded on his complaint and now uploaded the Gonzalez and Gonzalez contract which does seem to prove their point.  Jane says she is going to join TUG and tell all.  This whole thing seems to be a can of worms.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/mexican-timeshare-solutions--scammers-c429449.html     look at point #4

Barbara


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## DeniseM

Point #4 on the G& G Contract states that there is a retainer fee of $899.  Clearly- that's an upfront fee.


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## siesta

DeniseM said:


> Point #4 on the G& G Contract states that there is a retainer fee of $899.  Clearly- that's an upfront fee.


 there is nothing unusual about an attorney requesting a retainer, and usually that request will be accompanied by a retainer letter explaining the terms and conditions related to the retainer.  But this attorney specifically claims to work on a contingency basis, in which case he wouldn't be asking for a retainer.



> 100% Contingency basis guarantee


----------



## barbiebonita

*Denise is right  !!!!!*

Look at that contract....................... the *non refundable *retainer is to be paid thru Paypal !!!!!!!!!  and those offices don't look very legal.
Again anyone, especially TacoTerry or Scammedtoo do you have anything to update ????
Barbara


----------



## Karen G

barbiebonita said:


> L
> Again anyone, especially Terrytaco or Scammedtoo do you have anything to update ????


The quickest way to contact a poster is to click on their name and send an email or private message. If they aren't monitoring this thread, they may never see your post.


----------



## DeniseM

siesta said:


> there is nothing unusual about an attorney requesting a retainer, and usually that request will be accompanied by a retainer letter explaining the terms and conditions related to the retainer.  But this attorney specifically claims to work on a contingency basis, in which case he wouldn't be asking for a retainer.



Siesta - Did you look at the contract that was linked in the post above?

It states that there IS an $899 retainer - however, G & G has posted on TUG recently, stating that they don't charge an upfront fee of any kind.

I know you are an attorney - but G & G is located in Mexico - not the US - would YOU pay them and $899 upfront fee?


----------



## barbiebonita

*Siesta Do you use PAYPAL to get paid?*

I think Paypal is very suspect, and those offices, why would a retainer be non refundable if service is 100% guaranteed.  With all due respect as the moderator says you yourself are a lawyer, does this make any kind of sense ?

Barbara


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## DeniseM

Barbie - For some things, Paypal is fine, but it's an odd way to pay an attorney.


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## siesta

denise, if you re-read my post, you will realize that I agree with your hunch.


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## barbiebonita

*Denise you are right it is odd and PROHIBITED !!*

Denise, I just checked Paypal's prohibited use check point 4. *PROFECO IS A GOVERNMENT AGENCY*
You always say NEVER PAY UPFRONT and you are right !!!!!!

Denise for President !!!!!!!

Thx

Barbara

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> View all legal agreements 
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Last Update: Mar 10, 2010 Print You are independently responsible for complying with all applicable laws in all of your actions related to your use of PayPal's services, regardless of the purpose of the use. In addition, you must adhere to the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy.

Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1.violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation

2.relate to sales of (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (e) items that are considered obscene, (f) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (g) certain sexually oriented materials or services, or (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (i) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law

3.relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other “get rich quick” schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of real property, annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the following Money Service Business activities: the sale of traveler’s checks or money orders, currency exchanges or check cashing,or (g) provide certain credit repair or debt settlement services

4.involve the sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent
5.violate applicable laws or industry regulations regarding the sale of (a) tobacco products, or (b) prescription drugs and devices
6.involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.


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## DeniseM

siesta said:


> denise, if you re-read my post, you will realize that I agree with your hunch.



My apologies - I read it twice and it seemed like you were defending them.


----------



## DeniseM

barbiebonita said:


> Denise, I just checked Paypal's prohibited use check point 4. *PROFECO IS A GOVERNMENT AGENCY*
> You always say NEVER PAY UPFRONT and you are right !!!!!!



Profeco and G & G are entirely separate entities.  I have never heard of Profeco charging a fee.  They are a legitimate consumer agency in Mexico and they have helped some posters with Mexican timeshares.


----------



## siesta

I was merely addressing the notion "that all up front fees" are scams. while this is a good rule of thumb, it is not always entirely true.  The example I gave above is regarding attorneys and retainers.  Three main ways attorneys bill are by flat fee (or per hour), contingency (no payment until settlement or resolution), and retainers.  An attorney may requested a retainer to work on your case, when the funds are depleted and the case is still ongoing, an additonal retainer may be required.  Of course, a retainer should always be accompanied by a retainer letter outlining the terms and conditions.

I agree, an attorney practicing in Mexico,  claiming to work on a contingency basis, but then requiring a non-refundable retainer raises flags.  I would not send any money upfront.

To answer another question directed towards me, I don't accept paypal.


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## barbiebonita

*Profeco has no fee.*

Denise, what I meant was if you see the prohibited use, a Paypal account CANNOT use PAYPAL to accept payment for services like G & G, Profeco is an official Government Agency which is completely aware of fraudulent practices so I see a breach here.

Barbara


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## barbiebonita

*My Timeshare was a Scam*

Has anyone seen this regarding the TUG post, I see Gonzalez and Gonzalez pitching their gig !!!!!  Who is www.mytimesharewasasam.com ?????http://www.mytimesharewasascam.com/?s=gonzalez+and+gonzalez&paged=3 

This gets more and more strange.

Barbara

http://www.mytimesharewasascam.com/?s=gonzalez+and+gonzalez&paged=3


----------



## JaneinSpain

*confirmation of con artists Gonzalez and Gonzalez*

Hi B and moderators of this group,

I have just registered mainly because I was hoping to highlight my concern about this firm Gonzalez and Gonzalez on the Timeshare Users Group.  The rules appear to say that I am allowed to start a new thread, but I am not allowed to upload attachments.  Not being able to upload attachments is a pity, but maybe if one of your members/moderators is able to do that and can give me an email address, I can forward what I have to show everyone.   Unfortunately, I can´t see how to start a new thread on this, but it seems Gonzalez and Gonzalez are being discussed on this thread, so here goes.

My husband and I purchased at Krystal Cancun, Mexico, in December, because we have friends in the area and were sold on the idea of a timeshare.    We then got remorseful and thought we might be able to get our money back.  My husband found this firm on the internet who sounded like they could help -http://www.timesharescam.com, and they call themselves Mexican Timeshare Solutions.   We have wasted a lot of time, trouble and hope with these complete fraudsters, who nearly succeeded in getting us to pay an upfront fee of nine hundred dollars, quite apart from wanting the no win no fee percentage.

We realised just in time that these evil people are preying on tourists even more cruelly than the timeshare industry, and are complete rip-off hypocrites.

Our friends know people who were able to go to their stated office address and it is a totally seedy dive, completely at odds with their advertising.  I have also got the PDF they sent me showing me the contract they wanted us to sign for the $900.   I wanted to upload these to put them on show to the world.  I would complain somewhere official, but I am not sure whose jurisdiction applies.  I have put this on the complaints board website.

I thought your members would be interested, so please advise if you want the evidence I have in my possession.  It seems I can´t upload it here at present, but it is on the complaintsboard website.

From what I am reading, I don´t think there is any legal firm that would say we have a case for a refund from the resort, but thankfully, my husband and I are feeling generally more positive about the actual timeshare, which we will certainly use, and we aren´t thinking in terms of exchanges at this stage.  

I just want to get this off my chest, because I found myself angrier and more disguested with the so-called "legal saviors" than I was with the timeshare people.   It really is kicking people when they are down, and I hate the way their website pretends to care, when in fact they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Regards from Sunny Spain!


----------



## barbiebonita

*Welcome Jane*

I do not know how to upload on this site - I have seen pictures on other posts.

Thanks so much for the information, Denise is a doll, she can sense a trickster instantly.  She has every right to say 'I told you so' to anyone who pays upfront fees.

Barbara


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## Howardfox

*exactly!*

These are precisely the type of dodgy legal people I started to talk about when I first joined!

I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.


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## DeniseM

Howardfox said:


> These are precisely the type of dodgy legal people I started to talk about when I first joined!
> 
> I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.



Hi Howard - to start a new thread you just click on the forum you want to post on, and click the icon that says "new thread" above the first post.  However, if there is already an on-going thread on the same topic, we prefer that you add your post to it (as you did here) rather than starting a new thread, on the same topic.


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## DeniseM

barbiebonita said:


> I do not know how to upload on this site - I have seen pictures on other posts.



You can't upload pictures directly from your computer - they must already be hosted somewhere on the internet.  However, posting the link to the G&G contract like you did worked just fine.  Anyone can click on the link and view the G&G contract on the other website.


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## Passepartout

Howardfox said:


> I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.



You should be able to open any thread in the BBS by clicking on it's blue title, or on those with multiple pages (the small numbers below the title), the page number.


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## Howardfox

Siesta, I see you are a lawyer.  Can you advise please, are the timeshare contracts, in general, legally valid and binding?   My impression is that the only real issue with timeshare scams is that the contract wording doesn't back up what the salespeople say on the tours.  

Is that basically the basis of all the scams we hear about?   Is the bottom line that people just don't read what they are signing up to?

Curiously,

Howard


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## Passepartout

barbiebonita said:


> I have seen pictures on other posts.
> 
> Thanks so much for the information, Denise is a doll, she can sense a trickster instantly.  Barbara



There's a short tutorial about posting pictures in a 'sticky' above the Lounge area. it will work in any of the other forums too.

We think Denise is pretty special too. Doll? ? Well, maybe sometimes but others might disagree. 

Jim


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## Howardfox

thanks Denise and Passepartout - will give it a try when I have a subject which is not already being dealt with on a thread.
H


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## siesta

> are the timeshare contracts, in general, legally valid and binding?


  yes, and more often than not airtight.




> My impression is that the only real issue with timeshare scams is that the contract wording doesn't back up what the salespeople say on the tours.


 yes, but when you sign a contractual agreement you are agreeing to the terms and conditions specifically outlined in the written agreement.



> Is that basically the basis of all the scams we hear about?   Is the bottom line that people just don't read what they are signing up to?


bottom line, you hit the nail on the head. people don't read what they sign. they may of in fact been lied to or have intentionally been given misrepresentations about what they are actually agreeing to (you need to be able to _prove_ this), but the fact of the matter is in a court of law a signed legal contract will weigh more than hearsay (there are of course exceptions to the hearsay rule).  Additionally in timeshare contracts, you will see a clause specifically addressing the fact that by signing the document you are explicitly agreeing to the conditions contained within the document, and not any verbal promises or conditions that may have been presented.

*Disclaimer: The contents of this post are offered only as a public service to the web community and does not constitute solicitation or provision of legal advice.  This information should not be used as a substitute for obtaining legal advice from an attorney licensed or authorized to practice in your jurisdiction. You should always consult a suitably qualified attorney regarding any specific legal problem or matter. *


----------



## mikenk

Siesta, very well stated and to the point. Your post should be at the top of the boot camp thread. 

All contracts also state clearly that you have five days to read the contract and can back out for any reason. 

Mike


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## siesta

> All contracts also state clearly that you have five days to read the contract and can back out for any reason.


 rescission periods and conditions may vary depending on the state the purchase was made.


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## DeniseM

Mexican sales people are infamous for:

1)  Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
2)  Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
3)  Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.


----------



## mikenk

DeniseM said:


> Mexican sales people are infamous for:
> 
> 1)  Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
> 2)  Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
> 3)  Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.



Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. In my experiences, I haven't had any of those three things happen. The sales people certainly didn't tell me of my rights but none ever told me I couldn't.

Siesta, thanks for the clarification, I had assumed the five day period was Mexican law.  

Mike


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## siesta

mexico I believe is 5 days, for the U.S., it depends which state.   here are some FAQ regarding right of rescission, courtesy of DeniseM.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493


----------



## Howardfox

*thanks*

Thanks Siesta, et al, you seem to have confrimed what I kind of figured for a while about timeshare and about many tourist complaints.  After all, they are entering into a contract with the resort, not the sales person.  I think in general that we can expect a bit of b.s. from a salesperson whose livelihood is commission, no matter what they are selling - most responsible adults have to take basic precautions whenever they part with a lot of money.  

Advice on what we should have done before we bought is maybe not so helpful for us on this forum, as we've mostly already bought- right?   And it seems to me the resorts are at least offering good quality vacations and some return for our money.  That's why I'm more preoccupied with the parasite lawyers, like these Gonzalez ones the lady is Spain has mentioned. [Sorry Siesta, I know not all lawyers are bad, but it's a pet hate of mine!]

My daughter purchased about 3 years ago in Ixtapa - low season - not a lot of money - but she couldn't afford it and lost a lot on top to a dodgy lawyer who promised to get her a refund.  If we're not entitled to a refund, as Siesta says, why involved a lawyer at all?

Is there anything we can do as consumers, collectively, to combat these abuses?  Are we campaigning anywhere to get this side of the legal professional to clean up its act?


----------



## Idahoamy

*Purchase off Ebay!*

Wow... I'm so glad we bought our PB TS off of ebay!  We paid about $1500 all told for a Jr. suite at PB-Mazatlan, 11 years remaining in the TS.  We pay $450/year maintenance, and stay at PB-EB.  We ask if we can upgrade to a master, and have always been able to do so for free.  

We've decided not to attend these next time we go.  Not worth the $300.  Sad to say; it's not a small chunk of change, but we're just tired of the abuse.


----------



## pjrose

Idahoamy said:


> Wow... I'm so glad we bought our PB TS off of ebay!  We paid about $1500 all told for a Jr. suite at PB-Mazatlan, 11 years remaining in the TS.  We pay $450/year maintenance, and stay at PB-EB.  We ask if we can upgrade to a master, and have always been able to do so for free.
> 
> We've decided not to attend these next time we go.  Not worth the $300.  Sad to say; it's not a small chunk of change, but we're just tired of the abuse.



Congratulations for buying resale from ebay - sounds like you did well!


----------



## barbiebonita

*Howard give us some suggestions.*



Howardfox said:


> Advice on what we should have done before we bought is maybe not so helpful for us on this forum, as we've mostly already bought- right?   And it seems to me the resorts are at least offering good quality vacations and some return for our money.  That's why I'm more preoccupied with the parasite lawyers, like these Gonzalez ones the lady is Spain has mentioned.
> 
> Is there anything we can do as consumers, collectively, to combat these abuses?  Are we campaigning anywhere to get this side of the legal professional to clean up its act?



My my at last some activity.  Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ?  Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyones interest.  

Please give your views.

Barbara


----------



## Passepartout

barbiebonita said:


> My my at last some activity.  Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ?  Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyones interest.
> 
> Please give your views.
> 
> Barbara



It's not really clear what you want TUG to do. It can't stop you from signing a contract you don't read. There is no pro-bono lawyer who is versed in international business law who will take a case that there is a very low likelihood of success. Even if successful, there would be no punitive damages from which to take a percentage, just restitution to a buyer. Again, it's not going to happen.

In the TUG forum, Buying, Selling, Renting, there's a sticky entitled TUGBBB Ratings of Timeshare Related Businesses. G&G is one of the firms rated by TUG members. If potential buyers don't look, they won't see that TUG members are already looking out for their best interests.

Short of having a TUG representative standing in each developers' salesroom shouting "BUY RESALE!" what do you want? 

There have been threads about various TUGgers hanging out in the resort pools, bars and Jacuzzi's warning people about buying. Most have been ignored, and frankly, SOMEONE has to buy retail, full freight from developers or there wouldn't be high quality, newer, resort weeks for knowledgeable TUGgers to buy resale. 

Sorry you don't seem to be getting the answers you want. Maybe you need to examine the questions you ask.

Jim Ricks


----------



## TacoTerry

*What to do*



barbiebonita said:


> My my at last some activity.  Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ?  Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyone's interest.
> 
> Please give your views.
> 
> Barbara



Hi gang, sorry to come in on this discussion at such a late time.  I have been dealing with a life changing death in my family and now I am getting back into the swing of things. Thank you BarbieB for the private heads-up message about this thread and the information coming out on our favorite Mexican law firm.
 As far as what to do about the lies and deceit coming from salespeople at any timeshare presentation, I think the link that Scammedtoo put up for "mescam" is really a good place to get started. It's packed full of good info and covers a lot of different angles to attack the actual resort/timeshare group and kick them where it really hurts. Their bottom line.  Salespeople come and go, the resorts are the ones we need to go after for our money, they are the ones who have the power and the checkbook!

  A final note on G&G, I contacted their office and asked them for a response to the info being put out on this thread. I wanted to see what they had to say.  My e-mail back stated, "I can assure you that we do not charge any money upfront for our service."  Still singing that same song.  I asked them to come on this site and to honestly answer the questions being asked, They know this site and this thread because they have posted here before. I gave them the address anyway just to be sure. Sooo, they haven't posted any denials or any responses.  Silence speaks volumes!  
 I am happy the truth has come out about these vampires and sad to see my exit strategy disappear into the wind.  Time for my 3rd plan of attack.


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## DeniseM

Since G&G recently denied charging an upfront fee right here on TUG, I don't know what they could possibly post to defend their position now - since there is documentation (a contract showing that they do indeed charge an upfront fee) linked in this thread.


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## barbiebonita

*I like this image*

It didn't work.


----------



## Passepartout

barbiebonita said:


> It didn't work.



You have to first put the picture on a hosting service, like www.Photobucket.com The complete instructions are in a sticky at the top of the Lounge forum.  Jim


----------



## flexible

DeniseM said:


> Mexican sales people are infamous for:
> 
> 1)  Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
> 2)  Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
> 3)  Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.



and 4) Putting AI All Inclusive Bands on people within MINUTES of signing a new timeshare contract OR upgrading an existing timeshare contract WITHOUT telling them IF they rescind in 5 days they have to PAY for the AI and any other benefits.

We met some owners at Velas while we were there. They owned a STUDIO contract and upgraded to a one bedroom. When the realized people like us would be more than happy to sell our one bedroom units for next to nothing, they decided to rescind. Then they were upset to pay for the 5 days of AI from Velas.

They rescinded an upgrade to a one bedroom with less than 15 years remaining at a cost of OVER $10,000 or $15,000. I can't remember the exact cost. Then they came to us. We offered one of our one bedroom contracts for 2 weeks annually for about $200 plus the transfer fee of a about $100. It was late and even though I told them we are up early and in bed early they called us AFTER we were in bed and I gave in letting them waste our time.

They rescinded with Velas the next day. They never even telephoned us or left a message until we happen to see them in the swimming pool days later. I am happier that we didn't sell them our contract because I think they are rude. I am sure they do NOT think they are rude.

But it constantly amazes me that someone will pay 10-15K at a resort for an upgrade then tell someone they will buy their contract for $200 but not follow up.

That is why I gave three timeshare RTU back to resorts this season because it is easier to let a resort have a high demand fixed week or nice unit then to sell it to a stranger.


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## barbiebonita

*Easier links*






[/IMG][/IMG]

I hope this time it works.
The links are what Jane and Miguel Garcia sent.

Barbara


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## barbiebonita

*The G & G contract. Page 1*






Much easier to read.


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## barbiebonita

*G & G contract Page 2*






Thanks for all the help.

Barbara


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## DeniseM

Barbara - Do you know what date that contract was received?


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## barbiebonita

*The Contract*

The contract is unsigned and undated.
Sorry.  It must be recent.  Jane was very angry when she posted on the complaints board.

Barbara


----------



## barbiebonita

*The Offices*

Denise I just did the google map thing and it is dated 2010, I do not know how often google updates these pictures.

Barbara


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## Howardfox

*wait for it!*

I bet Gonzalez and Gonzalez will come back and try to make out it's an out of date contract...!   But I read the Garcia story too and it says they purchased only a couple of months ago, so that would mean the contract must be an up-to-date proposal.

Barbie & Jim,
Thanks for your response to my comment [also thanks B for that copy of the contract which is certainly a lot easier on the eye!].
I agree with Jim, the TUG already seems to be doing a whole lot and we can't ask for the moon.   But if the G & G website is saying something patently untrue and we can't tackle it ourselves as a consumer group, isn't it still a breach of law in any country, or some kind of fraud that the authorities would pursue?


----------



## hellolani

*my contract*

Hi peeps,

I went the route of contacting G&G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions and was in communication with them when my letter writing to Raintree worked out for me, so I didn't wind up going that route.  I did receive a contract from them which I didn't sign or return dated by my email on February 7, 2011.  _There is no request for a retainer on it._  It states that their fee to cancel my contract is $1500 USD and that any monies they are able to get returned to us, their portion would be 25%.  I've still got a pdf copy of it and I'm happy to email it to anyone who would like to see it but I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting it onto photobucket.

My impression was that they are able to help you cancel a relatively new contract (post rescission period but pre first use) so that you aren't on the hook for MFs for future, which for us would not have been a bad option in the end if our own efforts didn't work out.  We had high MFs and it would have been a lot of work to try to give our TS away per Denise's advice.  

I in the end have no dealings with them beyond a few conversations, so this is definitely not a defense, but I hope this additional info is useful.  I still haven't seen anyone post a review of their services here who has used them.


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## pjrose

flexible said:


> But it constantly amazes me that someone will pay 10-15K at a resort for an upgrade then tell someone they will buy their contract for $200 but not follow up.
> 
> That is why I gave three timeshare RTU back to resorts this season because it is easier to let a resort have a high demand fixed week or nice unit then to sell it to a stranger.



My guess is that $200 for something that is supposedly worth 10-15K sounds like a scam or at least not real: Why would an individual sell it for $200?  What is their recourse or guarantee with an individual they met at the pool?  Buying something that inexpensively seems like an example that "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't true".


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## Howardfox

Hellolani - They're not calling it a "retainer", but doesn't this $1500 amount to an upfront fee?   Are they honestly implying no refund no fee?   

All lawyers can do is quote the law and apply legal rights.  So what pressure could they bring to bear on resorts to achieve this, anyway, if the contracts are legally binding, as Siesta has said?  

Why would G&G set out on the work without having a strong legal basis on which they could be confident of winning the dispute?  I bet there's a catch!


----------



## hellolani

*G&G contract*

$1500 was to be paid upon my receiving confirmation that the contract was cancelled, and no other fee was requested up front.  I have no stake in this, I just like people to have accurate info and I have a contract which is recent and has terms different from the one posted.


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## TacoTerry

Howardfox said:


> Hellolani - They're not calling it a "retainer", but doesn't this $1500 amount to an upfront fee?   Are they honestly implying no refund no fee?
> 
> All lawyers can do is quote the law and apply legal rights.  So what pressure could they bring to bear on resorts to achieve this, anyway, if the contracts are legally binding, as Siesta has said?
> 
> Why would G&G set out on the work without having a strong legal basis on which they could be confident of winning the dispute?  I bet there's a catch!



 Could the different contract fees be because there are two different kinds of legal action going on here?  Our Spanish friends wanted their money back completely and Hellolani wanted to cancel the contract and walk away from the whole mess without getting their money back. So the retainer fee for a tough case and a flat fee for an easier cancellation case.  
  What happens to the week(s) of cancelled time sharing in the easier case?  Does G&G get a percentage of the resale from the Krystal or the Mayan or whoever? Could that be the catch we are looking for?   Siesta does this make any kind of sense to you?


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## Howardfox

*clause 6E*

Maybe they do have a range of contracts/fees according to the case but if Siesta is right and the resorts' legal standpoint is safe, what pressure can G&G or any lawyer bring to bear on them?    I am just curious at what stage engaging lawyers at hefty fees and percentages truly becomes necessary.  What legal arguments could they use which we can't use?   Once we know our rights, can't we go it alone in terms of negotiation?   I was annoyed my daughter didn't try that as a first step.  

Hellolani - did the contract you got include the "gagging order" clause, like at 6E on this one?  Maybe that's why we've not heard from anyone who has actually signed up with G&G.

Siesta - is a gagging order clause standard practice, please?


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## barbiebonita

*That must be it.*

Howard that makes complete sense, no wonder no one has responded who is a client of theirs .

Barbara


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## hellolani

*clause 6*

My contract's clause 6 only has 3 subpoints to it, matching letters B, C and D on the contract above.  The points corresponding to letters A and E are not on my copy.  No gag order.

Anyone who wants a copy for comparison, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you, or alternatively, anyone who is willing to get it uploaded to photobucket or some other image hosting site and link it in here, please let me know if you are able to help by PM and I'll send it to you.

My initial request to G&G was refund plus cancellation.  Their response was cancellation for sure, refund unlikely but we'll try.  No payment was requested nor required until evidence of resolution was produced for us.  This is actually also explicitly stated in the contract.

The only concern we had upon close reading of the contract was the last clause, indicating that the contract would be governed exclusively by the laws of Jalisco, Mexico, meaning that if we had a problem with them or them with us, we'd have to try the case in Mexico, which is clearly to their own advantage.  That said, we'd become attuned to look for that clause as it was highlighted to us as being a huge disadvantage from our original contract with Raintree.

I feel fairly certain that if our own letter writing to Raintree hadn't worked to get us cancelled, we would have proceeded with G&G to terminate our membership, and it would have been $1500USD to get cancelled with no further monetary obligation, rather than paying MFs, banking a week and then advertising and trying to give it away to someone, which would have cost at least the same but added more work and time to our plate.  Ours was a Gold membership with 50k annual points and an annual MF of $934.  Coincidentally, another TUG poster was trying to give away the exact same membership on the bargain board and wasn't having much luck from what I could tell.


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## FrankbynameFrankbynature

*Sorry to say Gonzalez and Gonzalez are CON ARTISTS*

They are nothing but FAKE layers with no license WHATSOEVER.

Look at this on the net, Please wake up everyone and smell the COFFEE !!!

The offices, the changing contracts, ALL the BAD PRESS !!!

I have been watching this go on and on and now have to demonstrate what is available for you all to see.

Sorry all you hopefulls 


Frankbyname  Frankbynature

Amber Taylor - 2 Apr 2009 
Just like you, my husband and I took a vacation to Mexico. what appeared to be a relaxing trip, turned in to a nightmare on the second day when we were  invited to a ¨Free Breakfast¨ for ninty minutes. We purchased $36.000 with the same rental pitch hoping to use our weeks to pay it off.When we got back and realized we couln´t afford this purchase, we tried to cancel, no one from Mayan Palace accepted our Cancelation petition. We contacted a Lawyer who specializes in timeshare fraud and within 15 days we were able to get our Dowm payment back.  _invalid link removed_
Ask for Cindy. She was very proffessional and empathetic. Hope they can help you with your issues.

Best Regards!!!!
Amber Taylor
 Reply  
Rating: +7 Alice - 16 Jul 2009
Amber,

I don't understand why you have literally hundred if not thousands of posts about being scammed here and there and everywhere.  You must be a millionaire to have purchased so many time shares, and if you were defrauded once or twice or three times why did you keep buying them?.  You are all over the internet.  Are you  a "for real" poster or a foil for Gonzalez and Gonzalez law firm.  We were considering hiring them, but now YOU show up all over the internet and I am wondering if you are just a profiteer drumming up business for Gonzalez & Gonzalez. 

But even Gonzalez & Gonzalez isn't this dumb to make 1,000 posts that are exactly the same. Or are they? Please let me know if you are a legit customer, really living  in Tustin.  I bet you have a 714 telephone prefix, don't you? Just like the professional and empathetic Cindy.  Gonzalez and Gonzales, if thisis you, disguised as Amber Taylor, shame on you.  shame shame shame on  you.   We'll see.
 Reply  
Rating: +6 Francisco - 7 Aug 2009
don't believe in these lawyers they are there to screw you not like the mayan they just took my money these a**holes f*** Gonzalez.
 Reply  
Rating: +2 A Really BUYER BEWARE!! - 13 Apr 2010
B E W A R E   O F   G O N Z A L E Z    &   G O N Z A L E Z 

Beware of these thieves and con artists, they call themselves "lawyers"!!!! R u kidding me??  The trouble with Gonzalez and Gonzalez jokes are: they don't think they are funny and... us... we don't think they are jokes!.

Apart from the fact that we are mainly dealing with fiction (though various kinds of stories are thought to be true by many), I must stress that Gonzalez and Gonzalez cannot be considered a mirror image of reality. Gonzalez and Gonzalez are bearers of mentalities. Gonzalez and Gonzalez always form a subjective representation of how ‘ordinary scammed people’ perceive reality. Gonzalez and Gonzalez are all about perception - not necessarily about how life actually goes, but about how people feel and believe it goes. Gonzalez and Gonzalez play to reflect the latent values, preoccupations, anxieties, taboos, prejudices and desires of narrators and through all the multiple stuff they found around the internet, it does not matter if it is about Mayan Palace, Regina, Velas, Pacifica, Royal Holiday, Royal Sunset, they don't really care about them... nor us... For this reason, all the posts can serve them as an instrument for "scam diagnosis" Popular narrative is a sensitive barometer for collective moods in society.

Consequently, Gonzalez and Gonzalez interpreted as the outsiders view on the practice of law in a given society at a certain time. The majority of Gonzalez and Gonzalez "legal" practices are not invented nor actively spread by the in-group (although eventually, the in-group may join in, as a kind of defense mechanism). Most of these tales are made up by anonymous of the out-group, in no way hampered by any solid legal knowledge. By means of storytelling, laymen and outsiders air their views and opinions of the administration of justice. Often these Gonzalez and Gonzalez sharks are told from an underdog perspective - they are told by ordinary people who stand on the ‘powerless side’ of the law (and I mean criminals).
 Reply  
Rating: +2 A really BUYER BEWARE!!!! - 13 Apr 2010
Reply  
Rating: +4 Cristina Scott - 30 Jun 2009
I tried contacting gonzalezgonzalez law firm as the above post mentioned and they turned out to be a bigger SCAM than the actual timeshare I got. Please do not contact them unless you want to waste your time and money. DO NOT trust them. They will only steal your money, they are based in Mexico which makes it impossible to track them or even sue them and they dont even seem to know anything about timeshare. It seems this Amber Taylor is not even a real person because the same post as above is posted all over the complaints boards and its too good to be true because when you actually contact the law firm they seem completely unprofessional. SCAMMERS trying to take advantage of people that have already been scammed once and are vulnerable. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. Hope this helps.
 Reply  
Rating: 0 CANCEL YOUR TIMESHARES - 31 Jan 2011
WE ARE TIMESHARE EXPERTS AND HAVE MANY YEARS EXPERIENCE WORKING FOR VARIOUS TIMESHARE COMPANIES IN MEXICO. 

CONCERNED ABOUT THE INTERNATIONAL TOURISM IN MEXICO WE ARE ASSOCIATED WITH ONE OF THE MOST EXPERIENCED LAW FIRMS IN MEXICO.
WE HAVE CREATEDTHE PERFECT LEGAL STRATEGIES TO GIVE ACCURATE SOLUTION'S TO ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF FRAUD IN PURCHASING TIMESHARES IN MEXICO.
WE OFFER OVER 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN LITIGATIONS AND DISPUTES ALL THROUGH OUT MEXICO, SPECIALIZING IN CIVIL MATTERS, TRADE, PROPERTY, AND ALL CRIMINAL AND TOURISM AS RELATED TO TIMESHARES. THE FIRM WAS FOUNDED IN MEXICO CITY IN 1970, IN SEPTEMBER OF 1983 WE EXPANDED TO GUADALAJARA JAL, AND IN THE YEAR 2003 TO PUERTO VALLARTA JAL.
We have assembled a team of EX-TIMESHARE employees that know the internal cancelation procedures for Mexican companies. We have found that almost all contracts can be cancelled with a refund of all monies paid. we can analyze your case and tell you what your chances are for a refund. _link removed_

HELP IS JUST A PHONE CALL AWAY!!
 Reply  
Rating: +7 Linda E. - 30 Jun 2009
Amber Taylor is FAKE and GONZALEZ AND GONZALEZ Lawfirm are a bunch of crooks, lying decieving, con artists!!! DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY! THEY WILL STEAL IT AND HUMILIATE YOU!! SHE BLOGS ON EVERY TIMESHARE COMPLAINT AND SAYS THE SAME STORY!!

How could I be so dumb and fall for this. All it takes is a little research to find out that Amber Taylor is the name the cowards at Gonzalez and Gonzalez have been using to make posts online. I found the exact same post over 200 times on different blogs!!!

I called gonzalez and gonzalez. Initially they were so nice and attentive and wanted to hear my case. Then I fell for the trap and gave them my money, paying them a portion of whatever they would collect in advance. They could not get me my refund back and still these people refused to give me my payment back. THEY DIDNT EVEN CALL EL CID. I had to negotiate with the resort directly and actually got my money back. They said they were never even contacted by GONZALEZ AND GONZALEZ. In other cases, according to the gentleman at the resort, they had complaints from members saying they never got their money back, when in fact Gonzalez and Gonzalez had already recieved the refund money. THEY ARE STEALING PEOPLES REFUND MONEY!

As it turns out checking several other blogs, it turns out they invented this character Amber Taylor to give themselves publicity. I had my mexican lawyer inquire about them, it turns out they are NOT EVEN REAL lawyers. They are profiteers, and try to take advatange of anyone that comes in contact with them. Now they won't even take my phone calls. Every time I call to ask for my $2, 000 dollars they owe me, they just hang up the phone on me. They even called me, and I quote "stupid b***h! stop calling, you are not getting your money back!!!" Do NOT fall for them. 

Here are just some of them, AGAIN there are hundreds of posts!! JUST CLICK ON AMBER TAYLOR AND SEE FOR YOURSELF!!! It seems as though this is the best way for them to make publicity from themselves...and have people fall in their trap! How could they make up a story like that:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/kvic-c171832/page/1.html#c284389

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/el-cid-c52238/page/1.html#c281873
 Reply  
Rating: 0 Interested - 22 Jul 2009
Hello Linda,

I was victimized by another Mexican Lawyer with a website offering help to Americans scammed by the Grand Mayan timeshares.  Terrible.  You mention you had success and you had another mexican lawyer, who I assume you feel is reputable.  I am looking for a Mexican lawyer to represent me.  Can you provide me with a name.  Thank you.


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## hellolani

*Inconsistencies*

Yeah, ok.  I'm in agreement that the inconsistencies in the contract as well as the tone of complaints is fairly convincing.  I can see how even if my contract didn't have any trick clauses in it, it would have been a good risk for them to take as if they failed to cancel for me but made up some way to convince me that they had, and I had then paid them, I would have not bother flying down to Mexico to sue for $1500, and if I wasn't truly cancelled I'd still be on the hook for my contract.

That said, I would only know if I had signed and then later had payment requested.  We were so wary after Raintree I would definitely have followed up directly with Raintree to get a written confirmation of cancellation directly from them before paying G&G, so I feel I would have been safe from losing $1500 to this potential scam as my contract clearly states no fee till contract confirmed cancelled.

Also, I was only 1 month out from purchasing and had made no use of the membership, so I don't know if that affects the contract details as well as other people may have come earlier or later in the process to seek help.

I fully agree that it is beyond despicable to take advantage of people who find themselves in a desperate situation as we did, and my only hope in posting here is to provide what info I have in terms of my own experience as I hate to see an option taken away from people just in case it turns out to be a viable one.

My advice would definitely be to get the contract for your own case and have it reviewed with a lawyer friend for any risk elements, and not proceed if it has risk.  Also I'd emphasize, send absolutely no money in advance of the services promised being delivered and double check that they have been delivered.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Thank you HelloLani*

Hi all, 
This is Dolly again on a thread I should have come to a long time ago.  If any of you know my situation or want to, you may see it on my original post about 'anyone having somthing nice to say about The Mayan Palace'.  It has become quite a saga to say the least.

I have had communication from Gonzalez and Gonzalez which makes me extremely cautious.

I do not want to make any more mistakes but need reliable legal counsel in Mexico.  Does anyone know who to use?

Has anyone had success?

Please tell.

Dolly


----------



## Howardfox

Hellolani - you sound very fair minded, and it's true, we can't assume all the lawyers are bad, just because there are some bad apples like Gonzalez and Gonzalez.   
A range of contracts from them is no different to the scammers in the wider business using a range of tactics to get us to buy.  I guess it just proves like anything that we should read any contract ourselves, thoroughly, before we sign and WHEN we sign.  

I heard once of a scam where people were shown one contract at the start to read and study, and were then presented sneakily with another version to sign later in the day, a version which was different in several respects but which appeared, to the cursory glance, identical... and you're scammed!   If caught out, the authors could always innocently claim "oh the other one must have been the older version".

As TacoTerry said, G & G can  [as he invited them to do] always post a response themselves, if our impressions are honestly wrong.


----------



## dollydaydream

*What to do.*

Hello again,

I am so confused, should I sign up with Gonzalez and Gonzalez.  I do not mind spending $1500 US more, because I feel a fool already..............[my letter of recission that I faxed was faxed by me the wrong way up !!!!!!!]


The info I have from G & G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions has this unusual demand/instruction..........what does this mean?  Please if anyone knows, I need to do something quickly.  The contract has no address on it which is strange.

Dolly



*"Thank you for your interest in working with us to cancel your timeshare contract. Please find attached a contract for the provision of our services. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you wish to proceed, please print out the contract, sign it and fax or email it back to our office.
Best wishes,


[contact info. deleted - we don't want to give them free advertising on TUG - DeniseM Moderator] 

P.S.We look forward to work with you to achieve the results you need. However, you are not our client until our firm gives you a written statement of acceptance and all documentation requested is provided and the contract is completed. Until and unless this occurs, you shall not give notice of our relationship to the Timeshare Developer or any of their subsidiaries or agents."*


----------



## DeniseM

No - Gonzalez and Gonzalez is a Mexican company and they charge an upfront fee.  We don't recommend anyone that charges an upfront fee, plus you will not have the protection of American law, if you have problems with them.  

I would call Profeco immediately - their phone number is in the brochure in the first post.


----------



## hellolani

*Clarifying*

Just to be absolutely clear, this is what I have deduced based on my own interactions, info on this site, and info on external sites:

G&G ie "Gonzalez and Gonzales" and "Mexican Time Share Solutions" and "timesharescam.com" are all one and the same.  My assumption is that G&G are the earlier iteration and they have rebranded.  It's the same people.  At one time when they were G&G, Denise has evidence that they charged an up front fee.  More recently with me they called themselves MTS and my copy of the contract explicitly does not charge an up front fee.

At this time, they have not come on this thread on Tug to respond to the confusion and allegations, though in the past they have posted here in other threads to say they do not charge an up front fee (though in my recollection they did not deny that they did so in the past.)

Also, no one has come on TUG to post any form of review, positive or negative, that I can find.  In the posted contract, there is a gag order (clause 6e) which does not appear on my contract.  My contract has no gag order.

These are all the facts that I was able to assemble.  If you are in a pickle, as I most certainly was, I see no harm in getting a hold of a contract yourself and reviewing it closely and with several lawyer friends if you've got them (I do and did.)  This is the reason why I highlighted the clause which indicates that your agreement is governed by Mexican law, which was a concern for us.

Ultimately we lucked out and found a better solution and we did not sign our contract and we indicated to MTS that we would not be proceeding with their services.

Here are some additional pieces which you may wish to consider.  I had two conversations with MTS - both times the connection was awful.  I experience this type of static as well when I try to use gmail talk with my dad's computer in Hong Kong, so I suspect based on this that they use an internet based phone rather than a land line.  

In our contract with Raintree, one portion stated that it was governed by the laws of Mexico, and another portion which had money owing on it (from us to Raintree) stated that it was governed by the laws of Texas.  MTS stated they could cancel our contract but advised us to cancel our credit card where these additional payments would have been taken.  I wrote back to clarify whether they had the ability to cancel that portion of the contract as I didn't want to get into a situation where I didn't pay and was later liable.  I highlighted for them that the promissory note was governed by Texas and asked them to clarify for me what steps they would be able to take to ensure that that was cancelled too.  They did not respond before I found a different solution.


----------



## Jo'Se

Hello all,

I fell victim to Krystal in Cancun last month.  [[[yup, I sure did!]]]  Should have known better.  

Anyhow, here's my 'twist & turn' with them:
After signing the contract with them, I came back to my hotel to did a quick search about Krystal online.  Long behold, I found complaints after complaints about them (specially in this forum).  Knowing I have the 5-day cancellation right, I went back to their office the next day to cancel.  Well, the sales person--Stepian (the former Texas football team kicker back in the 80's), totally changed his demeanor.  He said, oh no, you can't cancel.  Your membership is immediately activated, remember that seperate piece paper you signed yesterday?  I told him that I vaguely remember about signining something says about immediately activation of membership with RCI, etc. But nothing says I waived my 5-day cancellations.  His reply was basicly reaffirming that piece of paper I signed was waiving my 5-day cancellation, if I don't like it I can sue them.  At that moment I fell trapped, no other way out.  So I was able to re-negociate with them with a better finance term.

It was not until I returned home, did more readings and found this thread about the REAL law/regulations about the 5-day cancellation. I am dump founded!!

So, now what??  Can anyone give me any advise of how/where I should proceed?

I read the long back-and-forth about G&G, ANYONE ACTUALLY HAS ANY SUCCESS with them? That is the kind of re-assurance would be helpful.

Also, anyone has actually gotten help or reply from Profeco? (the Mexican Government agency overlooking the Timeshare pratice)  I saw one poster said she e-mail them following the instruction to file a complain, but never heard back from them.

I am looking forward to all of your replies & ideas.  

I CAN SEE THERE ARE MANY KRYSTAL VICTIMS OUT THERE, any attorny interested taking on a class-action suit against them??


----------



## Passepartout

If you have names, dates, etc. When you were refused rescission, Profeco may go to bat for you. Rescission is your right- even in Mexico, but you have to prove to Proseco that you signed a paper waiving this right (show them a copy of it) to have a chance to prove fraud. Also, going to the sales office to cancel a contract is never a good idea. The instructions on how to rescind and where to send the letter will be buried in the very small print in your bundle of papers.

In short, go to Profeco- there's a link above here. If you can convince them there was fraud, you may get their help. Otherwise, join the throng of TUGgers who have bought from a developer and stick around and learn to use your timeshare.

For a success story, here's a link to a recent rescission: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142977

And, welcome to TUG.

Jim Ricks


----------



## Vessie50

*Nena1234*



Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> 
> 
> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.
> 
> The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.



IN MARCH I PURCHASE 380 WEEKS ALL INCLUSIVE AT ROYAL CANCUN! SALESMAN ASHORE ME ONLY $79.00 PER DAY! TWO MONTHS LATER I GOT REVISED NEW RATES $269.00 PER DAY! LOL


----------



## Jose.GonzalezTS

dollydaydream said:


> Hello again,
> 
> I am so confused, should I sign up with Gonzalez and Gonzalez.  I do not mind spending $1500 US more, because I feel a fool already..............[my letter of recission that I faxed was faxed by me the wrong way up !!!!!!!]
> 
> 
> The info I have from G & G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions has this unusual demand/instruction..........what does this mean?  Please if anyone knows, I need to do something quickly.  The contract has no address on it which is strange.
> 
> Dolly
> 
> 
> 
> *"Thank you for your interest in working with us to cancel your timeshare contract. Please find attached a contract for the provision of our services. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you wish to proceed, please print out the contract, sign it and fax or email it back to our office.
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> [contact info. deleted - we don't want to give them free advertising on TUG - DeniseM Moderator]
> 
> P.S.We look forward to work with you to achieve the results you need. However, you are not our client until our firm gives you a written statement of acceptance and all documentation requested is provided and the contract is completed. Until and unless this occurs, you shall not give notice of our relationship to the Timeshare Developer or any of their subsidiaries or agents."*




Dolly dream,

The email Jennifer sent you is the one that has attached the contract for our services. I think the question you might be referring is the "P.S." part. Let me explain, some people, before hiring our services, contact the resort and make requests and treats and claim we are their lawyers with the hopes it will be easier for them to cancel. We believe this is not fair and this is the reason why we sent this note. 

I hope this clarifies your question.


----------



## Jose.GonzalezTS

DeniseM said:


> No - Gonzalez and Gonzalez is a Mexican company and they charge an upfront fee.  We don't recommend anyone that charges an upfront fee, plus you will not have the protection of American law, if you have problems with them.
> 
> I would call Profeco immediately - their phone number is in the brochure in the first post.



Hi Denisse,

Again, Gonzalez and Gonzalez does NOT charge any upfront fee or any fee during the process. If you wish, call and act a client anytime and request a consultation. You will see for yourself that what we claim as far as "Contingency basis" in our website is real.

Regards,
Joe.


----------



## Jose.GonzalezTS

*Contract*



DeniseM said:


> Barbara - Do you know what date that contract was received?




This contract is from may 2009.

I invite you to contact Gonzalez and Gonzalez and act as a client and you will see for yourself in the free consultation that NO upfront fees are requested.


Regards.


----------



## DeniseM

Jose:

1)  You are referencing a post I made *6 mos. ago*.

2)  Even if you no longer charge an upfront fee, I cannot in good conscience recommend a company located in Mexico - if things go wrong, an American consumer has NO recourse.

3)  Your advertising implies that your company is a law firm, and I noticed that in your FAQ, you try to minimize the value of Profeco, and suggest that people get legal advice, which is interesting, because no one listed on your staff page is an attorney - including yourself. Yet your webpage says:





> As such, we have a team of lawyers and former timeshare salespeople who are committed to changing and rectifying this fraudulent industry, one client at a time.



In fact, you posted this on TUG:  





> 3. In what jurisdiction(s) are you licensed to practice law?
> Our staff are professional negotiators and we try to settle cases outside of court as much as possible. If we need to go to court, we outsource to a set of lawyers that are licensed to practice law across Mexico.



Outsource means you have no lawyers "on your team."

4)  Your fees are very high - Profeco, a legitimate Mexican consumer agency is FREE. 

5)  Frankly, this point in your FAQ is not believable:


> 11. What is your success rate?
> 
> We have a *100% success* cancellation rate. We put all our efforts into representing you with the highest commitment level so that we can  achieve a positive outcome of your case.



TUG is an advocate for owners, and you cannot use it to promote your company.

_*When you use the search function, be sure you check the date of the thread/post you are replying to.  _


----------



## Jose.GonzalezTS

DeniseM, 

Thank you for your response, I appreciate giving me the opportunity to clarify some concerns. I will write in a different color to differentiate from your text.



DeniseM said:


> Jose:
> 
> 1)  You are referencing a post I made *6 mos. ago*.
> 
> 2)  Even if you no longer charge an upfront fee, I cannot in good conscience recommend a company located in Mexico - if things go wrong, an American consumer has NO recourse.
> 
> There are many companies in US who claim that can cancel timeshare contracts. Of all those companies, I have yet not came across of one that has the same payment structure as ours; all of them offer a money back guarantee. I think American consumers have the best guarantee when using a service, They do not pay unless we are able to truly help them.
> 
> 3)  Your advertising implies that your company is a law firm, and I noticed that in your FAQ, you try to minimize the value of Profeco, and suggest that people get legal advice, which is interesting, because no one listed on your staff page is an attorney - including yourself. Yet your webpage says:
> 
> In fact, you posted this on TUG:
> 
> Outsource means you have no lawyers "on your team."
> 
> We are a timeshare consultancy company, we do outsource the services of some lawyers and we hired one on staff recently to try and coordinate our other lawyers.
> Mexico is a country with 31 states and most of the timeshare scams are done in six states, Quintana Roo (Cancun), Jalisco (Vallarta), Nayarit (Nuevo Vallarta), Sinaloa (Mazatlan), Baja California Sur (Cabo and San Jose Del Cabo) and Sonora (Rocky Point). In Mexico, a lawyer needs to be an expert in the civil code for each state in order to file a law suit for timeshare fraud. This is why we need to have a lawyer in each state as an outside person otherwise we would not be able to afford all six of them or we would have to charge more for our services. FYI Our lawyers also work on a contingency payment, I think this is also a good way to ensure that our clients will have our staff truly working for them.
> 
> 4)  Your fees are very high - Profeco, a legitimate Mexican consumer agency is FREE.
> 
> Our fees are not high; our work requires a lot of man hours and paperwork. In fact, if you ask around you will see that other companies such as GIVE BACK TIMESHARE, TIMESHARESCAM.CO, PROFFESIONAL TIMESHARE SERIVICES, TIMESHARE PARTNERS.COM, TIMESHARECOMPLAINTS.COM charge more than
> $2,000 USD to cancel a timeshare and charge an upfront fee. Our service fee depends on various factors such as whether we have to help the client get out of collections or the purchase exceeds more than five years. our fee is as low as $800 USD but rarely would exceed $2,000 USD.
> 
> You might remember The Owners Advocate who were based in the USA and still lot of people lost their money even when they offered a money back guarantee. These people came to us and we were able to help them cancel their contracts, some of them did not charged any monies at the end because they couldn´t afford them and had paid other company previously. I do not think these people had any recourse either although had used the services of an American company.
> 
> As far as PROFECO, allow me to express a few points:
> 
> A  PROFECO holds an administrative nature, therefore PROFECO cannot dictate mandatory resolutions. In other words, PROFECO cannot seize property if a resort such as Grand Miramar does not reimburse the downpayment to a client who cancelled within five days. PROFECO will probably fine the resort with a fee that rarely exceeds 100 minimum wages (Mexican). That would be approximately $5,400 Pesos (around $400 USD). What many companies do is jus pay the fine rather than reimbursing the client a down payment of $XX,XXX.XX USD.
> 
> B PROFECO is a conciliator, therefore PROFECO is there to protect the rights of both the consumer and the company. but here comes the funny part. PROFECO does NOT accept verbal promises as evidence that a resort deceived a client. Usually lies from salespeople are told verbally. PROFECO only accepts a written agreeement; guess who wrote the purchase agreement?
> 
> C PROFECO is an Agency who has employees that get paid whether they resolve a case to the satisfaction of the client or not.
> 
> D Last but not least, In Mexico you can solve many things with a fifty dollar bill under a table. I do not think we need to get any deeper here.
> 
> For these and many more reasons, I truly believe it is best for people to hire the service of a professional, any professional willing to work on a contingency basis.
> 
> 5)  Frankly, this point in your FAQ is not believable:
> 
> 
> TUG is an advocate for owners, and you cannot use it to promote your company.
> 
> I am no using Tub for advertising, I am legitimately defending our company reputation from being unfairly damaged.
> 
> _*When you use the search function, be sure you check the date of the thread/post you are replying to.  _



DeniseM, We are on the same boat here. I an not asking anybody to talk great about our services but rather just ask for justness and avoid "barbaragirl" (I am sure she works for Krystal KIVC) from trying to damage the reputation of our company who only tries and do the same as TUG: Educate people on timeshare fraud and help them if we can.

PS. Dont you think it is funny that the people who posted that contract from Gonzalez and Gonzalez two years old did not complained about the resort who scammed them on the first place but just us? My common sense is telling me that it is from someone who is not happy with what we are achieving and that would be a timeshare developer.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify this.


----------



## oldbuyer

There is no legal system in Mexico. Even the US developers hide behind Mexican law. Whomever bribes the judge the most wins the case! 
From and past experience, only Profeco represents a challenge (but slow and bureaucratic) to the TS industry as they don't like the paperwork and black mark of a Profeco complaint filed against them.
Don't count on your credit card company either as they have little recourse on foreign transactions.


----------



## maui1010

*timeshare fraud*

I am new at this so excuse me please if I am not posting correctly. I am wondering if anyone has heard of getting out of a timeshare contract when you have passed the 5 day grace period in Mexico. We did not find out we were scammed until we made the final payment and tried to make a reservation. I just sent an email to Profecto so I am waiting to hear back.


----------



## navsails

*Cancel my Timeshare contract*

I am considering G&G and have contacted them, while there is no upfront fees there is a stipulation that "if" they need to go to court a $2,000 court cost "fee" is required. When I asked for an address they told me that they could not give it to me out of fear of retaliation from the "timeshares". very suspicious!

Has anyone used G&G and able to get out of their contract?

There is another company in Orlando Florida : TimeShare Answers. Does any one know or heard anything about them?

Then there is the Finn group a Michigan Law firm and a Timeshare Attorney.

Does anyone have a line on what to do to cancel a contract outside the 5 day rule?


----------



## Passepartout

navsails said:


> Does anyone have a line on what to do to cancel a contract outside the 5 day rule?



The only sure way out is to sell or give away the TS. After the rescission or 'cooling off' period it is very difficult to prove that a fraudulent sale was made. The buyer was given the time allowed by law in the country of origin of the contract to back out. After that, it is a legally binding contract, as if it concerned the purchase of a car, boat, real estate or anything else. I suppose the signer could bankrupt out, but if it is shown to the BK court that s/he can actually afford the purchase- whether or not it was a wise purchase, or has value, they still will be bound to pay the debt.

The outfit(s) you have mentioned in your post don't have a good track record around TUG and few if any have had success. Far more frequently, any time up-front money is asked for and paid, it has turned out to be a scam.

Sorry for the reality check, but there it is. You are probably better off to file a grievance with Profeco. DeniseM posted a link to them for you a few last week. I'd pursue it on the grounds of your dad being aged and perhaps not having a full grasp on this situation. My words, not yours.

All the best

Jim Ricks


----------



## miroxlava

*krystal cancun scam and G&G / MTS*

I just spoke to them(G&G) today, received the contract via email and it looks like its legit. No up front fee, they cancel your contract and stop the collection agency for $999.00  You pay nothing until you receive written proof of the succesful cancelation. I think I have no choice but to place my trust in these people and hopefully save some $$$$.... unless anyone has a better solution. So far this website has helped me with information, unfortunately it does a better job for people with timeshare knowledge and not so much for people like me, after the 5 day rescission period and now in a "life changing pickle"


----------



## miroxlava

*Krystal Cancun Scam*



miroxlava said:


> I just spoke to them(G&G) today, received the contract via email and it looks like its legit. No up front fee, they cancel your contract and stop the collection agency for $999.00  You pay nothing until you receive written proof of the succesful cancelation. I think I have no choice but to place my trust in these people and hopefully save some $$$$.... unless anyone has a better solution. So far this website has helped me with information, unfortunately it does a better job for people with timeshare knowledge and not so much for people like me, after the 5 day rescission period and now in a "life changing pickle"



partial response from Profeco: Nuestro procedimiento es conciliatorio y nos basamos en los términos del contrato.  Le informo que* las promesas verbales no serán válidas para el procedimiento. 
* "verbal promises are not valid for the procedure"   So basically they can only help if the TS provider defaults on a written contract clause or something like that, but for us scam victims of verbal misrepresentation we are SCREWED 

also, heads up  biennial means every other year, not twice a year like the salesperson lead us to beleive, so in fact I paid about $15,000 for 25 year membership, thats $1,250 a week plus $850 maintenance fee... do the math, this is a ripoff!!!!


----------



## Jo'Se

*Contact Profeco*

Contact Profeco... I am sure someone already has an extensive discussion/explaination of who they are.  It's a government agency--probably the most reliable resource for us--the foreigners.  They do not require any fee, and act as a mediator between parties.  You don't even have to make any trip back to Mexico.  They will appear in the meetings on your behalf.


----------



## Antunalu

*Profeco*

I have just received my third hearing results from Profeco and nothing much changed from the first two hearings except that Krystal is offering more weeks the first year visit and a further explanation of the membership and cancellation of the contract.  I don't care to go back for one week, so I sure don't want three weeks like the last hearing on Oct 20th offered.  They will have one more hearing on my behalf in January and then I can take it up with the Mexican Tribunal (whoever they are).  Each time I respond to Profeco to let them know I am not interested in any weeks, that I just would like a refund from Krystal, I get more weeks offered.  Not sure I am getting any where.  Hopefully the last hearing I don't get offered 4 weeks.  I got sucked into Krystal in May 2010, 1st hearing was March 2011 -krystal offering one more week, 2nd hearing was in June 2011 -Krystal offering two more weeks, 3rd hearing in Oct 2011 -Krystal offering three weeks - I haven't acceptted any of those offers.  Thats not want I originally asked for.  Now I just started getting the maintenance fee bills.... the one where I was told would not be any unless I would use the week.  Haha....  They got enough money from me....Guess i will be ruining my credit.


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## miroxlava

*Krystal Cancun Scam*

Just got off the phone with a rep from American Express, after disputing the down payments (almost $10,000) they have sided with the "merchant" claiming that they have to abide by the contract and it's verbage. All the verbal promises, misrepresentations and fraudulent claims made to us and past "victims" do not hold any weight for us cardholders. I used my American Express card thinking I had protections against this kind of stuff, I even called them within 10 days of signing the contract to dispute the charges, they sent me letters stating that the dispute had been resolved in our favor and weeks later they change their mind. I will have to just pay off this credit card and close the account. Also, I do not see any other way out of this so I will sign with G&G and hopefully save on the other half, cancel the contract and promissory note and stop the monthly billing and maintenance fees. I will keep you posted.

George (Miroxlava)


----------



## Antunalu

*Krystal Scamming*

This is one of the reasons they continue doing what they do.  They can get away with it and they know it, because they been doing it for years.  Credit card companies are supporting them.  They probably don't got a problem with just canceling the contract because at least they have the initial down payments, so they will always be ahead.  Seems like we just have to chalk it up to one hell of an expensive vacation to Mexico.


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## Jo'Se

*Class-Action*

OK, I have seen there are several of us fell victim to Krystal, and we all have the same story about their scam.  Is there anyone, or some advise, of how to get a class-action suite against Krystal?  Any of the moderators have give some input or referral would be great!


----------



## tdjo1978

*We dont know what to do*

We have attended sales presentations in the past with other companies & felt like we knew what to expect.  We were at hotel in Cancun and attended the sales presentation.  We were asked for our identification so that they could be copied and placed into a file to prevent us from returning to receive gifts if we declined the option to buy.  We declined their deals several times & asked for our IDs to be returned to us.  The salesman continued to try to sweeten the deals, and just ignored us when we asked for our IDs.  He would start asking questions or try to divert us in some way.  This happened several times.  We became very aggrivated and I was so upset that I started crying like a baby.  I felt trapped!  I did not know what to do or how to get our IDs back so we could get out of there!  A lady came & started going over the purchase agreement and she showed us the part where it stated we had 5 days to cancel.  After she was done, we again said it wasn't a deal for us & we wanted our IDs.  Again, we were ignored.  Finally, we asked for a few minutes alone & after a little more diversion, the salesman finally left us (all the while keeping a "hawk's eye" on us).  We agreed to sign the agreement, get our IDs, leave, and to cancel the contract as soon as we got home.  After the sales presentation, the salesman had us transferred from our hotel to the "member's only" resort for the duration of our stay (we were told this was in exchange for the free tour that we were unable to use as gift for attending the sales presentation).  The day we got home, I sent 2 certified cancellation letters via express mail.  Now the company says we can not cancel our contract because we were transferred to the "members only" resort, therefore, we took benefit of the membership & were "immediately activated".  Now we are searching for help & facts.  We don't know what rights we have.  We are extremely upset that we were kept there against our will until we gave in, this is where we dove into an unknown abiss & did not know how to get out!  Any advice or help of any kind would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## tdjo1978

*in addition*

I sent a message to Profeco a couple of weeks ago, but have not yet heard anything from them.  I am not sure how else to try to get them on board.  I can not navigae their website and forms easily because I do not speak or read Spanish.  My translator helps, but only to a certain degree.


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## aliikai2

*If you sent them the rescision*

within the correct time frame, you have cancelled.

Contact your credit card and dispute the charge. 

Continue to tell them in writing that you have cancelled and with not be continuing to pay them.
 The letter should be factual not emotional,  repeat that you have cancelled and that according to Mexican Law you can not waive your rescission period, so their claim that you were Immediately activated is not legal. Spell it all out step by step leaving out the emotions. 


The Mexican law is clear, you cancel, they have to honor it. 

Now, sometimes it takes a while for them to realize that you are serious.

Start posting how you were taken advantage of using the name of the timeshare anywhere you can find to post. Facebook, Redweeks, etc

Greg


----------



## tdjo1978

*Thank you*

aliikai2:  Thank you for your reply.  Any additional info is greatly appreciated!  
Facts: we signed contract on Nov 18, 2011.  We notified the company of our intent and desire to cancel on Nov 22, 2011 by phone & email.  Of the written notifications sent: the first cancellation letter was received to Miami address listed in contract on Nov 23,2011.  The 2nd cancellation letter was received to Cancun address in contract on Nov 29, 2011.  We received our first communication from a "legal representative" with the company on Nov 22, 2011.  There is no way that the company can truthfully state that they were unaware of our intent and desire to cancel within the 5 days.  Thier legal representative has not contacted us again, the only person within their company that is contacting us right now is a "financial advisor" that keeps trying to get us to agree to a 2 month extention on our payments.  We continue to tell her that we are not interested in any new agreements with thier company and that we stand firm on cancelling this contract with them.  She just continues to tell us that we waived our rights by transferring and that the only way to stop legal action is to agree to her new terms.    My first question is: if we do not have the right to cancel, then why are you trying so hard to get us to agree to something new?  
Thanks & again we do appreciate any more info provided!


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## tdjo1978

To be sure I am providing all the information we have, when they transferred us to the new resort, they had us sign a transfer form.  At least, we were told it was only a transfer form.  This form was entitled: Instant Service Activation Request.  We are being told that this form is what gave us "immediate activation" and the reason we can not cancel the contract.


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## aliikai2

*Again*

According to Mexican law, " You can not sign away your right to cancel" 
Keep making this statement. We are cancelling, we can not according to Mexican Law sign away our right to cancel.

 

Greg



tdjo1978 said:


> To be sure I am providing all the information we have, when they transferred us to the new resort, they had us sign a transfer form.  At least, we were told it was only a transfer form.  This form was entitled: Instant Service Activation Request.  We are being told that this form is what gave us "immediate activation" and the reason we can not cancel the contract.


----------



## Karen G

tdjo1978 said:


> We are being told that this form is what gave us "immediate activation" and the reason we can not cancel the contract.


That's just another lie trying to make you think you can't rescind. There is a toll free number for Profeco on their brochure:  call the
toll-free Consumer call center in Mexico: 1-800-468-8722.


----------



## tdjo1978

I just received another email from the financial advisor.  She sent me this from Mexican law:
ARTICLE 56.- The contract shall be perfected five business days from the delivery of the good sold or the signing of the contract, whichever comes later. During such term, the consumer shall be entitled to revoke his consent, without any liability whatsoever. The revocation shall be made by giving notice or by delivering the good sold in person, through registered mail or through other means to serve such notice in a legally unquestionable manner. The revocation made pursuant this article shall render the transaction null and void, and the supplier shall reimburse the price paid to the consumer. In this case, the freight and insurance costs shall be borne by the consumer. *With respect to services, the above shall not apply if the date when the service is rendered is within ten business days or less from the date of the purchase order*. 
She states that this last sentence refers to the form we signed while being transferred to the new resort.  She says that this DOES waive the right for us to cancel our contract because we received services of the club.  
I must admit (very sadly) that this sounds feasable....do we believe her and pay what we owe or do we keep fighting it?


----------



## Karen G

It doesn't sound feasible to me. It sounds like their attempt to get around the Mexican law that pertains specifically to the sale of a timeshare. They were selling you the right to use a timeshare property for a specific number of years--not a one-time stay at a hotel.  Stick to your guns here. You rescinded within the legally specified time period.  Keep reiterating this to them and don't let them wear you down.  Follow through with Profeco. Dispute the charge with your credit card.


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## tdjo1978

My credit card has issued a temporary charge back to our account.  Sunset now has 60 days to rebut against it & I am sure they will because they are adimant that we can not cancel the contract.  I have tried calling Profeco, but the 1-800-468-8722 is not in service and when I call the direct line 52 (55) 5568-8722, everything is only in Spanish, no option for English.  I emailed Profeco a couple of weeks ago but have not heard anything back from them.  I feel like we are against a brick wall!  We were held in the sales presentation against our will and now we are still being bullied by these people to give in & pay them our hard earned money.  I have NEVER felt so violated or robbed!


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## Karen G

Well then, just sit tight.  You've done all you can do. You did what was required to rescind. Don't pay them anything. Stand your ground.  Just be as adamant about your position as they are being.


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## Karen G

tdjo1978 said:


> *With respect to services, the above shall not apply if the date when the service is rendered is within ten business days or less from the date of the purchase order*.


Going back to this part of the law that the "financial advisor" quoted.  I assume your contract was for the right to use the timeshare for a given number of years.  You didn't receive that service, therefore this part of the law doesn't apply to you.


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## Passepartout

You might try this number: All complaints by Americans are handled by PROFECO's English-speaking office in Mexico City at 011-52-55-5211-1723. It's from a 2008 TUG post.

Good Luck!

Jim Ricks


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## tdjo1978

Our contract was supposed to be a "Lifetime" membership.  It started out being for 25 years, but somehow the salesman ended up having it altered to lifetime.

Thanks for the other number for Profeco, I will try it now.

Also, interestingly, I have just tried to reply to this financial advisor by email (as I have done many times over the past couple of weeks) and now I am getting a "Failure Notice" that my emails can not be delivered to her email address!  I have tried to reply to her 3 times now & each time I get the failure notice.  She just sent the email to me about 3 hours ago.  Like I said, I have been in communication with her through this one email address numerous times.  How wierd!


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## aliikai2

*You didn't buy a Service*

You bought a timeshare, and they are just trying to bluff you into accepting this deal, remember, *I have served you with the rescission of this transaction, I will not be bullied or bluffed, we are canceling. 
*

fwiw,

Greg


tdjo1978 said:


> I just received another email from the financial advisor.  She sent me this from Mexican law:
> ARTICLE 56.- The contract shall be perfected five business days from the delivery of the good sold or the signing of the contract, whichever comes later. During such term, the consumer shall be entitled to revoke his consent, without any liability whatsoever. The revocation shall be made by giving notice or by delivering the good sold in person, through registered mail or through other means to serve such notice in a legally unquestionable manner. The revocation made pursuant this article shall render the transaction null and void, and the supplier shall reimburse the price paid to the consumer. In this case, the freight and insurance costs shall be borne by the consumer. *With respect to services, the above shall not apply if the date when the service is rendered is within ten business days or less from the date of the purchase order*.
> She states that this last sentence refers to the form we signed while being transferred to the new resort.  She says that this DOES waive the right for us to cancel our contract because we received services of the club.
> I must admit (very sadly) that this sounds feasable....do we believe her and pay what we owe or do we keep fighting it?


----------



## tdjo1978

Well, the issue with the email must have been a fluke because she did receive my last email.  Guess I was hoping to be lucky enough that she would disappear.  Anyway, now she tells me we have the rest of this week to come to an agreement with them or they will send the case to collections.  Funny, not sure why it would be going to collections when we really don't owe them anything yet.  Our payments were not supposed to begin for 6 months after we signed the contract!  

And so far, no luck with the new number for Profeco either.  I will try to email them again.


----------



## Passepartout

Keep fighting the good fight, but if in the end your account gets sent to collection I wouldn't worry a helluva lot about it. In today's economy, with the millions of people who have genuine credit problems, appealing to the 3 credit agencies and showing them (a)the Sunset contract, and (2) your rescission letter within the legal time period, I think they will amend any damaged credit report for you. I know it shouldn't be necessary, but it's not the world's end.

You may have to cancel a credit card, but that's not a credit killer either. Thousands do it every day in conjunction with fraudulent card use. There's a current thread about this in the Lounge.

Tell the 'financial councilor' that you don't owe anything since you rescinded on(date). Dare their collection agency to take you to court. If they do, you automatically win. Then you go for damages.

Good Luck.

Sorry you are having to go through this.

Jim


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## tdjo1978

Thank you all for your advice and help.  One minute I am ok with the fact that the worst case scenario is that we have ruined credit and may have to appear in a Mexican court where we don't speak a lick of Spanish & don't have a clue what is going on.  Then the next minute, I feel as though I am going to have a panic attack my anxiety level gets so high.  I just have never had to deal with anything like this before & it is scary.  Thanks again for any help and advice provided.  I will update on our situation & I am following this thread if anyone can offer anymore assistance.  
I do have 1 question: if we were to end up having to appear before a court, I assume it would be in Mexico....how do we find a legitimate lawyer (who won't try to scam us out of more money) who can practice law in Mexico & speak English?


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## aliikai2

*I would never appear in a Mexican Court for*

a civil matter. I can't advise you to appear either. The Napoleonic Justice system is far different that we are used to, just ignore them if it gets to that point, let them get a Mexican judgement, they still need to collect from you where you live. Greg  



tdjo1978 said:


> Thank you all for your advice and help.  One minute I am ok with the fact that the worst case scenario is that we have ruined credit and may have to appear in a Mexican court where we don't speak a lick of Spanish & don't have a clue what is going on.  Then the next minute, I feel as though I am going to have a panic attack my anxiety level gets so high.  I just have never had to deal with anything like this before & it is scary.  Thanks again for any help and advice provided.  I will update on our situation & I am following this thread if anyone can offer anymore assistance.
> I do have 1 question: if we were to end up having to appear before a court, I assume it would be in Mexico....how do we find a legitimate lawyer (who won't try to scam us out of more money) who can practice law in Mexico & speak English?


----------



## Karen G

tdjo1978 said:


> Then the next minute, I feel as though I am going to have a panic attack my anxiety level gets so high.


I think if I were you I would have nothing more to do with that "financial advisor" or whatever she calls herself, and I would not respond to any more of her emails.  

Just make sure you have a copy of your contract, your rescission letter, your notification to your credit card co., and whatever other documentation you have. Continue to try to work through Profeco.

If you hear from a collections agency, submit to them your simple statement that you rescinded in the allotted time and provide copies of everything.  I seriously doubt that you would ever have to appear in a Mexican court. I've never heard of anyone from the U.S. having to do that because of a rescinded timeshare sale.

I think these people are just trying to scare you, and they are doing a good job of that. You don't owe them anything based on what you've said.

I'm so sorry that you've had to go through this. Maybe your experience will help someone who comes along later and reads this thread so that they can avoid getting into a situation like this.


----------



## tdjo1978

We were finally able to get in touch with Profeco, and Thank God we were able to.  After explaining our situation: they agree with us so far.  I am sending them a copy of all of our paperwork and they will look at the claim after the New Year.  Below is copied directly from an email from Profeco:

1. As informed your right can not be waived. (this is in response to my asking about the form we had to sign to be transferred to the new resort) 

2. The law just established send the letter not that they should receive it, so your receipt showing the date of sending would be enough. 

I know there is probably still a long fight ahead of us, but I feel a huge relief after finally getting a couple answers from someone who deals with this stuff all of the time.  At least it is a start of something hopeful.....


----------



## Karen G

tdjo1978 said:


> We were finally able to get in touch with Profeco, and Thank God we were able to. . . .
> I know there is probably still a long fight ahead of us, but I feel a huge relief after finally getting a couple answers from someone who deals with this stuff all of the time.  At least it is a start of something hopeful.....


Thanks so much for letting us know. I'm sure this is a big relief for you and I hope it will help you not to worry. I really don't think you have a big fight ahead of you at all.  You followed the legal procedure afforded you under Mexican law and you rescinded within the stated time. End of story.


----------



## Passepartout

*tjdo1978*, If you don't mind, would you please post how you were able to finally contact Profeco? It might help others who find themselves in your situation. Thanks.

Jim


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## tdjo1978

I emailed Profeco at *extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx* and waited for about 2 weeks.  I had not heard anything from them & I could not get through with the phone number we had (*011-52-55-5211-1723* for US & Canada).  I looked up the brochure again from the link in the 1st post of this thread & I called their direct line *+52 (55) 5568-8722*.  Please note this line is answered by an automated system and it is all Spanish.  I do not speak Spanish so I just continued pressing 2 after each prompt.  Finally I was transferred to a human & as soon as she spoke, I said “Hola, mi nombre es Tia.  Habla English?” And she told me to wait a minute and she found someone who could speak English.  I then explained to the 2nd lady that I was in the USA and had contacted them regarding a timeshare that we had recently purchased in Cancun and that I had not had a response.  She then transferred me to another lady.  This 3rd lady asked for my e-mail address and she told me that she had replied to my message, I had not received it so I gave her another e-mail address and she forwarded the reply to me which was requesting more information from us.  All 3 of the ladies I spoke with were very nice & did not seem to mind helping me get in touch with the right person.  She also gave me a number to reach them at, and it is the same number I tried the first few times without success (011-52-55-5211-1723).  I have not had to try to call them again as I have gathered up the info they need & have mailed it to them.  They even notified me that they will be on holiday until after the New Year and they will review my complaint then.  
At this point I have only received one more e-mail from the "financial adviser" in which she told me I have to accept their new deal within 48 hours to prevent legal and credit consequences.  I guess we will wait and see what happens...


----------



## tdjo1978

aliikai2 said:


> I would never appear in a Mexican court for a civil matter. I can't advise you to appear either. The Napoleonic Justice system is far different that we are used to, just ignore them if it gets to that point, let them get a Mexican judgement, they still need to collect from you where you live. Greg



Do you mean that Sunset would go to court in Mexico for a judgement & we would not have to appear?  Wouldn't that get us in trouble?  Trust me! I do not want to appear, but don't want to get in trouble either.  I don't know how any of this legal stuff works & I am not excited at the thought of finding out.  I obviously still worry about the worst case scenario.


----------



## aliikai2

*Pretty much yes.*

I don't want you to get the idea that I dislike either Mexico or the Mexican people because I really love both.:whoopie: 

But, since Mexico was  ruled by France during the Napoleonic era, they adopted that judicial system. 

There you are guilty until you can prove your innocence or in this case that you are in the right. 

Therefore I would never ever intentionally appear at any court action in Mexico.

Greg  



tdjo1978 said:


> Do you mean that Sunset would go to court in Mexico for a judgement & we would not have to appear?  Wouldn't that get us in trouble?  Trust me! I do not want to appear, but don't want to get in trouble either.  I don't know how any of this legal stuff works & I am not excited at the thought of finding out.  I obviously still worry about the worst case scenario.


----------



## tdjo1978

*I agree*

I agree with you, we loved Mexico and the people there (with the exception of the people working with Sunset).  But to be honest, even they were really nice & hard working...just the sales team had some unethical tactics to pressure people into buying.  Speaking of their judicial system, I never knew the history, but I did know that it was easier to be "guilty" than innocent, especially for non-mexicans.  That is the sole reason why we did not show our butts and cause a huge scene when the salesman would not return our IDs to us.  I was scared that if we caused a scene & they didn't give them back to us, then someone called the police, we would be in trouble because we don't speak Spanish & we would have been the ones causing "trouble".  I hope & pray it doesnt get to the point of court hearings, but I guess only time will tell.
Thanks again for your opinions & your help!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

[deleted long, off-topic ramble on the Napoleonic Code]


----------



## louiso

*outcome*



miroxlava said:


> I just spoke to them(G&G) today, received the contract via email and it looks like its legit. No up front fee, they cancel your contract and stop the collection agency for $999.00  You pay nothing until you receive written proof of the succesful cancelation. I think I have no choice but to place my trust in these people and hopefully save some $$$$.... unless anyone has a better solution. So far this website has helped me with information, unfortunately it does a better job for people with timeshare knowledge and not so much for people like me, after the 5 day rescission period and now in a "life changing pickle"


 

what was your outcome with g&g
louiso


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## DeniseM

Louiso - A gentle request, please don't keep posting the same questions over and over again.

1.  Read the extensive info. that is already in this thread.

2.  Most of the people who ask about G&G post once, and never come back again, so they will never see your post - to send them an email, click on their blue user name.  For instance, miroxlava hasn't been back to TUG since November.

3.  Per my response in your other thread, you will not get a recommendation for this company from any of the regulars here, because this is a "recovery" company located in Mexico with high fees - it is not a law firm, and it is not in the US.


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## Timk

*TimK*

My wife and I have multiple time shares in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.  We like all of our resorts.  Unfortunately, like all time share owners, we have some regrets.  Also like many owners, circumstances have changed.  We have not retired and we both have had shoulder surgery.  

Initially we tried to rent out some of our our time shares.  The company we chose was a scam.  A couple of years ago we decided to try to sell our time share that includes golf.  Again we got scammed.  Just today I got another call from that time share resale company.  The salesman used every point that DeniseM the moderator mentioned in her comments.

The bottom line is that if you can not sell the time share on E-bay for a small fraction of what you paid for it, you certainly will not sell it through a re-sale company for more than you paid initially.  If you are not going to use the time share, can't sell it, and do not want to pay maintenance fees and "bank it" fees, you may consider dumping it.  The old theory applies:  "Why throw good money after bad".  That is the decision we made for the golf time share.

This choice is not without its perils.  The timeshare may come after you for unpaid fees.  That is the risk.

Has anyone else taken this path?


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## beach_bumz

Have you tried to give it away? If there are golf benefits someone might want it. The Cabo trip advisor forum has a ton of caboholics --maybe someone there might be able to take it off your hands.


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## mgb33

I just realized today I was also scammed by KIVC!! I'm soooo upset I fell for all their lies. Looking now on how to get out of this contract. Please email me with suggestions.


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## Karen G

mgb33 said:


> I just realized today I was also scammed by KIVC!! I'm soooo upset I fell for all their lies. Looking now on how to get out of this contract. Please email me with suggestions.


Go to the first post in this long thread and click on the link for Profeco. You should contact them with all your details.


----------



## Antunalu

*krystal*

Hopefully you are not over the 5 day cancellation limit because if you are, I'm not too sure Profeco will be able to help out.  They are having the 4th hearing and last hearing on my behalf on Monday, January 23rd.  I havent had any luck with any of the other 3 hearings, so I'm sure this one won't be different.  It seems like they can get things resolved if you are within the 5 day cancellation time, but other then that, I haven't seen much good results.
They said I can take it up with the Mexican Tribunal if I don't agree with the results of this last hearing.  I'm ready to tell them to just cancel it and suck it up to an expensive vacation, because I don't want to deal with the yearly maintenance fees and bad credit because I don't plan on giving out any more money.


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## tdjo1978

*Update*

Hello all!  Not much to update as of yet.  I continue to get emails and phone calls from the "financial advisor".  She has told me the last several times that if we don't accept her proposals that she will turn our case over to the legal department and the collection agency.  In one email she mentioned turning us over the the "International Bureau".  I have no idea who this "international bureau" is referring to.  We responded ot her multiple times stating that we will not accept any new proposals from her, that we do not want to do anymore business with this company & that we cancelled within our 5 days and we stand firm in our choice to cancel.  She just ignores us basically & tells us we can't cancel because we waived that right by being moved to the other resort.  I have a friend who is an attorny (he is not able to practice international law) but he has told me that he would not talk with her anymore.  At this point, if our "case has become a legal matter and placed with collections" then we should hear from someone other than the financial advisor who first contacted us with alternate offers.  I am still praying that they do not appeal our dispute with out credit card company.  Everyday I go to the mailbox with the feeling of dread.  Our paperwork is still en route to Profeco.  I mailed our paperwork to them a month ago!  Talk about being slow.  I am also praying that Profeco will fight for us once they receive our stuff.  I will continue to keep you posted with any changes.  Thanks again to everyone for their support and advice.  This forum has helped me more than you can ever know.


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## tdjo1978

*update*

I received an email Friday from Profeco.  They have filed a complaint against Sunset & are scheduled to meet on our behalf as of April 24, 2012.  

I have blocked the financial advisor's email address from sending anymore emails to me.  I figured I would start being contacted by someone else by now, but it has been 3 quiet & peaceful weeks since I have heard anything from them.  I still figure that I will hear something from someone with Sunset soon, but I have been so thankful for this time they have left us alone!  Also, I just contacted our credit card company that issued us the chargeback for the amount Sunset charged us at the signing of the contract.  I am so excited because Sunset never appealed our dispute with the charges.  Sunset had 60 days to file an appeal with our credit card company and they didn't!  That means that our chargeback is final & Sunset can not get that money :whoopie:   I just had our card information changed so that they can't try to charge anything else to it in the future.  

This is all I have to update at this time.


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## Karen G

tdjo1978 said:


> I received an email Friday from Profeco.  They have filed a complaint against Sunset & are scheduled to meet on our behalf as of April 24, 2012.
> 
> . . . Also, I just contacted our credit card company that issued us the chargeback for the amount Sunset charged us at the signing of the contract.  I am so excited because Sunset never appealed our dispute with the charges.  Sunset had 60 days to file an appeal with our credit card company and they didn't!


Thanks so much for sharing your good news. Since Sunset didn't file an appeal with your credit card company, it sounds like you are off the hook with them.


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## taffy19

This is great news.  Please, people send a thread like this to your credit card company and they may read that you are not the only one lied to or scammed as many have been before.  It may help you getting your hard earned money back.

Most people have to sign a gag order and cannot post the outcome of the dispute but this person helped many by reporting back.


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## rrdrums

*me too!*

 

Just got back from Maya Riviera. Same situation as others and realize I am probably part of the Krystal Scam. Instead of clogging up Posts, could someone email how to fight this and get my money back?


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## Passepartout

rrdrums said:


> Just got back from Maya Riviera. Same situation as others and realize I am probably part of the Krystal Scam. Instead of clogging up Posts, could someone email how to fight this and get my money back?



You aren't clogging things up at all. If you are within the rescission period, just follow the instructions in your contract and it's a done deal. If you are beyond that, it's more trouble. Start reading post #1 in this thread and get with Profeco. If you have evidence of fraud, that may work well, too. 

Wishing you success.....

Jim


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## sunshine1151

*Profeco?  Not sure!*

My husband and I ended up having second thoughts about a timeshare purchase and did go to Profeco.  The lady at the reception was not English speaking, nor was anyone else at Profeco.  When I questioned why there were no English speaking people available, her answer was "lady this is Mexico." 
We were dropped off by a cab at the Profeco office.  Ended up coming out of there in tears.  Lo and behold, the cab driver waited for us.....I guess knowing we would be out soon.  
If anyone needs to go to Profeco, be prepared with a translator. 
Not much faith in Mexico.


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## Portmoody911

I just bought three days ago at the Grand Mayan in Los Cabos, and after going through this forum and reading every word doing my due diligence, I am going to rescind because what they promised me is not being delivered already only three days after!  

I'm going to do it in person!  

My contract says that I have the right within 5 days of signing to a) "returning all documentation to Member Service representative at the Resort and obtaining a signed receipt or b) sending written notice....

I'm still at the resort and don't see why I should not try to get it done in person! I will not be bullied! 

Danny


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## kenie

Just make sure all materials that they gave you are returned.

Good luck.


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## Portmoody911

I am happy to report that the Grand Mayan did rescind my contract without any problems.  I went directly to member services, they were pleasant, offered three additional pitches in total, very low key no pressure, and finally an exit interview!

I walked out with all the original paperwork I signed contracts etc, plus a copy of the rescission document.  I was impressed by their professionalism 

Thank you everyone for saving me a bundle!  

Danny


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## Passepartout

Cool! We usually don't recommend that the rescission be done in person because of (a) the pressure from the sales staff and (b) because often the office to do it is elsewhere. 

But you did good!

Now go enjoy your vacation and when you get back, come bake for a visit and someone(s) here will offer whatever guidance you want towards a life of ever better vacations and  travel.

Best!

And if no one said it before, Welcome to TUG!

Jim


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## Portmoody911

Thanks for the info, 

by the away spoke to visa this week, they told me according to Canadian law and the rules of VISA, i have 14 days to rescind, regardless of what the contract i signed says.  

Interesting, good info if anyone is stuck out there.


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## mommytolucan

I bought my Krystal Cancun timeshare last year so there is absolutely no hope of getting out of anything I suppose (even if I haven't used it yet).  I am sooooo angry at them for promising something that I can see will probably never happen, the renting of my weeks, which is the only reason that I ever bought it.


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## FamilyMan

*Sucessfully canceled: Westin Lagunamar Cancun Timeshare*

We successfully canceled our timeshare. Thank you.


First we would like to say thank you to *TUG* members for providing us with the information we needed.  We are much better informed now, and will be better prepared when we eventually purchase a timeshare.

I wanted to post this so that it will help others who have bought or trying to cancel their timeshare.

*Here is our story:*

We went on Vacation in Cancun Mexico and decided to attend a timeshare presentation at Westin Lagunamar Resort. This resort is owned by Starwood Vacation. We personally think Starwood has a great product and their timeshare pitch was very low pressure. We respected that. But we were not prepared in terms of doing our research about timeshares, prices etc. so we ended up purchasing a timeshare with Starwood. Only afterwards did we poke around on TUG to find the wealth of information about resale’s and other timeshare companies. We wanted more time to research first before buying a timeshare that best suits our needs.

We purchased timeshare on a Monday.  And decided we didn’t want it anymore by Wednesday. Reading through our contract, we found our that we had 5 days. Our hearts were racing and we started to freak out.

In our contract we had a line saying:

“YOU MAY CANCEL THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT ANY PENALTY OR OBLIGATION WITHIN 5 DAYS AFTER THE DATE YOU SIGN THIS AGREEMENT ("CANCELLATION PERIOD") OR THE DATE ON WHICH YOU RECEIVE THE LAST OF ALL DOCUMENTS REQUIRED TO BE GIVEN TO YOU PURSUANT TO APPLICABLE LAW, WHICHEVER IS LATER. IF YOU DECIDE TO CANCEL THIS AGREEMENT, YOU MUST NOTIFY THE SELLER IN WRITING OF YOUR INTENT TO CANCEL. YOUR NOTICE OF CANCELLATION SHALE BE EFFECTIVE ON THE DATE SENT AND SHALL BE SENT TO: WESTIN CANCUN SVO MEXICO, INC., AT 9002 SAN MARCO COURT, ORLANDO, FLORIDA 32819; ATTENTION: DOCUMENT ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT OR IN MEXICO AT BOULEVARD KUKULKAN KN. 12.5, LOTE 18, ZONA HOTELERA, 77500 CANCUN, QUINTANA ROO, ATTENTION: DOCUMENT ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT. ANY ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN A WAIVER OF YOUR CANCELLATION RIGHT IS VOID AND OF NO EFFECT. WHILE YOU MAY EXECUTE ALL CLOSING DOCUMENTS IN ADVANCE, CLOSING BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF YOUR 5-DAY CANCELLATION PERIOD IS PROHIBITED. THE REIMBURSEMENT OF ANY FUNDS RECEIVED BY SELLER WITH RESPECT TO THE INITIAL DEPOSIT MUST BE MADE WITHIN A MAXIMUM OF 15 BUSINESS DAYS FOLLOWING THE CANCELLATION DATE.”

We started to panic and wanted to go back to the sales office to cancel. But my suggestion is to remain calm. Re-read the cancellation instructions. We realized we didn’t need to go back to the sales office. So, took a leap a faith and followed instructions in our contract.

In the contract it says 5 days after the date of signing. Since we purchased on Monday, the 5th day AFTER the date of signing would be Saturday. 5 Days is 5 Business Days, which means we really have until Monday to cancel.

We had a flight back to Toronto on Friday. Wrote a letter and mailed it out Saturday. About 2 weeks later we got our refund. We didn’t mail back the materials and books they provided us (again read the contract, it doesn’t say anything about returning materials)

*So to help those in a situation similar to us, here’s what we did*


1.	Get home (if time permits) and write a cancellation letter
2.	We sent the letter via CanadaPost Registered Mail with Advice of Receipt. Costs less that $20. Registered mail a must. Advice of receipt (which is proof they received it is optional. But we like to had a proof just in case)
3.	CanadaPost will timestamp your envelope and mail it away. (Remember it is not about when Starwood receives the letter, it is more important that you send the letter within the 5 days.
4.	It took CanadaPost/USPS 6 business days to get the letter down to Orlando. The tracking number they provided us is not really accurate. Until today, it shows the mail has not yet been delivered. We freaked out a few times until we got the Advice of Receipt letter returned in the mail to us. Meaning they have received the letter.
5.	Within 3 days, Starwood vacation refunded our money. YEY!

*Our Advice*
Now that we have gone through canceling, our advice is to stay calm and follow the instructions on the contract. We resisted the temptation to spam them with emails, phone calls, going back to the purchasing office and freaking out. An advice I have is to have faith in the Law.

We mail our cancellation letter to the US address. As our contract says, we can mail our cancellation letter to Mexico or Orlando. We chose to mail to Orlando, because we felt the mail system was more reliable with the hard working folks in Canadapost and USPS. 

Another lesson learned was to do your research first. TUG forum has tons of information. Timeshares are not scams. They are timeshares. And really, you just have to find one that suits your needs and budget. It’s a commitment that needs time and thought before purchasing. I’m glad we were able to cancel. Thank you everyone.


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## FamilyMan

*What happens after sending the rescind letter...*

Just a little added information for those asking what happens after we sent our rescind letter.

Our letter was sent via Canada Post Registered Mail (only registered because it provided proof of when we sent it). Attached to it was something called "Advice of Receipt"(AOR) Card (to prove the they received the letter).

After we sent our registered mail/AOR to SVO to cancel our timeshare, we waited for CanadaPost/USPS to send our letter to Orlando. It took about 6 business days.

Once they received the letter, our money was refunded within 3 days. Although the company refunded the full amount charge on our credit card, we actually ended up losing about $200 because of the difference in exchange rates. The company refunded our money without any notice to the credit card on file.

10 days later we received our AOR in the mail confirming that they have recieved our mail. 

2 days days after that, we received a letter from Starwood Vacations lawyers confirming the cancellation. And requesting for any books and materials to be sent back to them.

Hope this all helps!


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## siesta

congrats on rescinding! Now after you do your research you can determine which resale timeshare, if any, is right for you with no pressure and deadlines.


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## Jo'Se

That's great... Since Westin/ Starwood is a larger well known comany, they are less likely to scam you out of the cancellation right like other local-Mexican resorts (aka: Krystal)


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## Jose.GonzalezTS

Jo'Se said:


> That's great... Since Westin/ Starwood is a larger well known comany, they are less likely to scam you out of the cancellation right like other local-Mexican resorts (aka: Krystal)



Unfortunately Resorts such as Krystal have a reputation for not honoring the FIVE DAY CANCELLATION RIGHT granted in Mexico.


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## SunsetBeach2002

*Great Information*

Wow such great information, glad to hear the folks at Emerald Bay were as Decent as those at Sunset Beach Pueblo Bonito,   while I am not always happy with them,  I at least know my property is very nice and only have it for 30 years... before it falls down  like many of friends with old crappy US timeshares - who wants a 25 year building on the Las Vegas strip  with 25 inch bulky TVs still in the rooms,  at least Marriotts have flat screens


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## Belle76

Thanks for all the good advice.  I found TUG just in time to rescind on a $20,000 timeshare at Pueblo Bonito Sunset, even though they had me sign a waiver to prevent the cancellation.  I contacted Profeco and they were very helpful.  My credit card company refunded the deposit.  It has been 40 days and so far they have not tried to resubmit the charges and have not contacted us.  Hopefully, this will be the end of it.  Wish I had the sense to research prior to attending the presentation, but never thought I would ever sign up for it.  Got caught up in the moment like so many others.  I will go back to PB as a renter of someone else's timeshare, as it is really a beautiful place.


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## Karen G

Belle76, congratulations! So glad you found TUG in time.


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## Jayco Solutions

*There is relief after 5 days*

Just so you know mostly all mexican timeshare contracts are voidable, even after 5 days because most of them are only in english and they are rarely ever translated into spanish.  [_Advertising is not permitted in this forum._


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## Jayco Solutions

wtmaxwell said:


> These guys will say anything to get you to sign. I did and regret it. They told my wife and I a bunch of lies and we believed them. When I went to book my first vacation, I was told that it does not work the way they sold it to me. They then ignored my emails and phone calls for months. I filed with PROFECO and they no showed the first 2 hearings.
> I tried to be resonable thinking I could eventually contact an ethical person in the company. They refuse to give you any mangement names because they have so many irrate customers.
> This company is a scam and they know it. Do not stay at their resorts or attend there seminars. They will lie and then try and tell you they're not like they gave done to me and others.



You can still fight back.  Most mexican timeshare contracts are done in english only wich makes the contract voidable under mexican law.  Whenever anyone wants to cxl a contract generally they run to profeco and are heart borken to find out they only had. 5 days to rescind the contract.  Profeco will not go through every aspect of your contract to find a way out for you.  [no advertising]


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## Passepartout

Jayco Solutions said:


> Just so you know mostly all mexican timeshare contracts are voidable, even after 5 days because most of them are only in english and they are rarely ever translated into spanish.  [_advertising deleted_.



Oh Please! Oh Please! Include details! Is there an upfront fee? What is your success ratio? Which resorts have you had success with? There are thousands of potential clients right here, but without some details you will be branded a scam like so many other upfront fee outfits. I don't think that the fact that the contract is in English has any bearing on whether or not it can be voided after the Federally allowable 5 days rescission period. A few TUGgers have had some success with Profeco in cancelling contracts when there was fraud on the part of the resorts. Some have come back and asked that all of their derogatory posts be removed as a condition of making amends with Grupo Vidanta.

I Googled your username and came up empty. Forgive us for being skeptical, but this isn't our first dance.

Jim


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## herindoors911

A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V.   Is this place on the up and up?  Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse.   Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.

They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.

Thanks...


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## DeniseM

herindoors911 said:


> A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V.   Is this place on the up and up?  Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse.   Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.
> 
> They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.
> 
> Thanks...



1.  Sometimes these "trade-ins" are never taken out of the owners name and they end up with 2 maintenance fees.

2.  You can acquire timeshares in Mexico for absolutely free.

3.  Does she have the "penthouse" thing in writing?  Timeshare sales people in Mexico are infamous for making false verbal promises which aren't in the contract and aren't enforceable.


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## herindoors911

Thanks Denise M....   I'm not sure what she has in writing.  I will ask.  I didn't like to tell her that I found the exact same timeshare on Ebay for $1.00.  

They enjoyed the location very much, so hopefully they will be able to go there when they want.   They traded in an Oregon timeshare and had to pay this year's MF's upfront.

Resort CLosings are handling all the paperwork.... are they OK too?
Thanks,


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## T_R_Oglodyte

herindoors911 said:


> A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V.   Is this place on the up and up?  Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse.   Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.
> 
> They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.
> 
> Thanks...





DeniseM said:


> 1.  Sometimes these "trade-ins" are never taken out of the owners name and they end up with 2 maintenance fees.
> 
> 2.  You can acquire timeshares in Mexico for absolutely free.
> 
> 3.  Does she have the "penthouse" thing in writing?  Timeshare sales people in Mexico are infamous for making false verbal promises which aren't in the contract and aren't enforceable.


The "trade in" program at Paradise Village in the past has been handled through Sumday.  One time I posted that I thought it was a scam because the contract they give you to sign does not say they are taking title to your timeshare.  Sumday himself contacted me later and assured me that they do take over title.  Take that with whatever assurance or skepticism you want.


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## MsAndi

*Getting out of Pueblo Bonito timeshare*

I wanted to say thank you to everyone on this board and share my story in the hopes that maybe it will help someone else. 

I purchased a Pueblo Bonito timeshare based on my interest in the 6 weeks enticement they (aka Dirk) gave me for Pueblo Bonito Premier. It was easy to envision quick getaways and long vacations all over the world for ridiculously low fixed weekly rates of $199-$399. First lesson: If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. 

I guess I never felt totally comfortable about the purchase, because my first day home (Day 5 after purchasing, but a Saturday) I started googling Pueblo Bonito scam. I found this and other websites and discovered that my deal probably was too good to be true. I called the number for Pueblo Bonito Premier and was informed that the rates are dependent on the property and the time of year and that the low rates I was quoted might be available on a last minute basis, although his "might" seemed rather skeptical.

I immediately called the credit card company where I charged the "non-refundable" deposit to alert them and started putting together all my documentation for them. 

I was kind of freaking out and kept googling till I found out about the 5 day rule (Thank you Jason!). After following more links, I learned that the 5 day rule refers to 5 business days (i.e. Monday to Friday) so that if I cancelled by Monday, I would be within the timeframe. This was a huge relief!

I emailed my cancellation notice, copied Prefeco, the US consulate in Mexico and a few other agencies and prepared my letter to send first thing Monday morning. 

In response to my email, I heard from Profeco first thing Monday morning telling me that email and fax were OK as a backup, but that I should definitely send a letter by some sort of mail service that has a return receipt service, e.g FedEx or UPS. 

Note: Due to customs, even the quickest and most expensive FedEx service wasn't going to get my letter to Mexico until Thursday (Day 8), but Profeco assured me that it was the date of sending, not that date of receipt that mattered...another big sigh of relief. They also told me that they cannot cancel the contract for me, but they would do everything to help me. 

I spent countless hours working on this and pretty much ruined my first weekend home and got to work late today but I am so grateful that I found out about in enough time to get my cancellation letter in on day 5. 

I haven't gotten a reply from them yet, but with all I have learned and with Profeco's support, it seems unlikely that they will not be forced to cancel my contract and refund my deposit. 

Thanks again!


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## Karen G

*Tugger successfully gets out of a fraudulent contract*

Here is information from a Tugger that might be useful to others who have been defrauded by buying a timeshare in Mexico:


I had never been to Mexico, knew nothing about timeshares or TUG until it was too late.  I will skip the details of how the grifters tricked me, you have heard that all before.  The names and dates have been omitted to protect the guilty.  What follows is a very condensed version of the whole story but I am reporting what is important to everyone who has been scammed by TS grifters.
I got a copy of the Mexican Consumer Federal Protection law, about 100 pages and studied it.  

All TS contracts are adhesion contracts and have to be registered with Profeco.  I got a copy of the registered Spanish contract from Profeco and compared it to the English contract.  The English contract was not the same and illegal because of Article 86.

ARTICLE 86 quater. Any difference between the text of the adhesion contract registered with the Federal Consumer Protection Agency and the adhesion contract used to the detriment of consumers shall be rendered null and void.

Profeco did not discover this when I first filed my complaint, I did.  I had to contact a different department in Profeco, the contract division.  They confirmed that my English contract was indeed a violation of 86 and illegal.  They suggested I make my Profeco representative aware of this.

It is my opinion that once Profeco declared the contract illegal it would be fraud for the resort to keep my money.  That is a criminal offense in Mexico and the US.  At any rate at this point I got almost all my money back. 

Legal proceedings in Mexico are different than in the US.  In the US if you are completely right you expect to win completely and win big.  In Mexico it very much about compromise even if you have the other guy dead to rights.  So I gave up a few hundred dollars to get back several thousand. 

Profeco actually has no authority to make the resort pay the money back (even after they said the contract was illegal).  You would have to sue in the courts and Mexican justice is an oxymoron (again my opinion).  Profeco can make their life miserable though because they approve the contracts and they can sanction them for violations.  That is the big stick they have.

Let’s see what else may be of interest.   I confronted the credit card company with this evidence...nothing.  I filed arbitration and they immediately gave me my money back (damages for breach of contract).  My take on credit card companies is that they are in it for the money and side with the merchant.  They know perfectly well you are being cheated but unless you have irrefutable proof they will keep the money.  I know some people feel otherwise, just my opinion from this one experience.

They said they could not charge the merchant back.  I don't believe that, they just did want to offend the money maker.  I however continued to pursue the Profeco case I had filed.  After many months the contract division of Profeco agreed the contract was illegal and said so in writing.  I negotiated a settlement with the grifters and got more money back (damages for the fraud).  So after two years and a lot of work (I have left out a lot of details) I got my money back.
The American Embassy said they have never heard of anyone doing what I have done.  So I wanted to tell my story so maybe it can help others.
------------------
I'll be making this a sticky later to keep it at the top of the Mexico forum.


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## buceo

Karen G said:


> ...Legal proceedings in Mexico are different than in the US.  In the US if you are completely right you expect to win completely and win big...



I've certainly read here about all the problems with ts in MX, I just haven't experienced them, though we own 7 weeks there.  One major reason we bought in MX is the above quote; really we see it just the opposite (likely we didn't buy from the same resort the OP did). Here in the US we continually sue each other for any reason, I'm not referring to the OP, it's us as a culture, but you just you can't have it both ways. It raises prices here enormously. The US, plain and simple is expensive, insurance and litigation is a big part of that.  The OP does point out that MX is "different" than the US, yes that is why we bought there and would do it again in a heart beat.  Where we bought IN MX is just not any different, in practice for us,  than the US, unless there is a slippery floor/ loose rug, we get hurt and sue and they say "hasta luego".
footnote: Probably the resort to which the OP refers is loved by traders and renters. A great vaca "just don't buy". You can't have said resort(s) without people buying from the developer...to point out the obvious.


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## Karen G

Glenn, I agree with you and we've enjoyed our Mexican timeshare immensely over the last 15 years. But, there have certainly been a lot of changes in how things are done in the timeshare world since we bought ours--not only in Mexico but around the world.

I'm very happy that the person was able to get his dispute resolved, and I hope his experience can be useful to others in his situation.


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## eakhat

When we were in Mexico in 2007, we ended up buying a small vacation package.  After the purchase I spent time researching what we purchased, and I found lots and lots of negative reviews.  My husband and I immediately went back to the sales area, and they told us it was too late to rescind.  After doing more research, we decided it wasn't too late.  We typed a formal letter and delivered to the sales office.hen we returned home,


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## eakhat

2nd half of message--the 1st half accidentally posted on me.

When we returned home, I contacted our credit card company, and they were wonderful.  I faxed all the negative information I found.  In about 2-3 months, the charge was taken off our account. 

On an interesting note, I keep getting e-mails regarding our use of the membership, Great Vacations Club, and early this morning, someone from GVC called to say our resort certificates are about to expire.   We are still listed as members.


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## buceo

Karen G said:


> Glenn, ...I'm very happy that the person was able to get his dispute resolved, and I hope his experience can be useful to others in his situation.



I agree.  What I don't agree with is the poster not making the issue about the resort, the OP says, "The names and dates have been omitted to protect the guilty."  What?  What's the real story?  It took a lot of work certainly as admitted to in part because no homework was done in advance, but it was all settled...eventually.  I'd like to see the resort and people at the resort called out, not the country.

Not: "...useful to others who have been defrauded by buying a timeshare in Mexico"
But instead, useful to others who have been defrauded by resort company X". Seems MX came through better than the US cc company.

If the OP signed something protecting the resort, I don't think the whole country should be the fall back, like I said, lots of personal experience, none like the OPs one time experience.


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## tonyg

Most people who post details on the internet get pressure to remove such posts in order to get a settlement. This has happened many times with several Mexican resorts.


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## Karen G

buceo said:


> I'd like to see the resort and people at the resort called out, not the country.


His experience was specific to Mexico because of their consumer protection rules.




He didn't have to agree to anything about disclosing the resort name, but I believe his main point was that the Spanish version of his contract, which was registered with Profeco, was different from the English version which he was presented with by the timeshare sales people. That was what constituted fraud based on the Mexican consumer protection rules.


----------



## buceo

Karen G said:


> ...I got a copy of the registered Spanish contract from Profeco and compared it to the English contract.  The English contract was not the same and illegal because of Article 86.
> 
> ARTICLE 86 quater. Any difference between the text of the adhesion contract registered with the Federal Consumer Protection Agency and the adhesion contract used to the detriment of consumers shall be rendered null and void...



Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>?  It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud?  I didn't read it that way.  I read it that the OP wanted out of the purchase (why was that, the scam part, "the usual" you can rent for a small fortune claims etc?) and because the contracts were different he could get out of it.  Did I get that wrong, wouldn't be the first time? I'm not seeing in his reported instance why fraud (defrauded) and Mexico are in the same sentence referring to the contracts.  "Illegal" yes because they were somehow different & that's protected against, but not fraudulent?  It's not real important that I understand this, I just don't. Thanks.


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## Karen G

buceo said:


> Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>?  It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud?



Here is some further information from the person who got out of the contract:

The message is to study the Mexican consumer protection laws and use then to your advantage.  In my case the main one (not the only one but the main one) was the violation of article 86. _ The English contract was different than the official Spanish contract and it was done so to deceive the consumer.  Clear violation of 86. _ At that point I had them dead to rights.  Even then Profeco cannot make them give the money back.  They said I would have to sue in a Mexican court.  That is very risky because US law is case law and Mexican law is based on  Napoleonic Law.  Here is quote from one of the many resources I used in my research.

NEGOTIATING A SETTLEMENT

Regardless of the type of legal documentation you have to support your claim, Mexican courts are unpredictable at best and justice is often illusory. Thus, if you are able to come to a “middle ground” with your Mexican debtor and recover at least part of the debt, you will be much better off than you would be with a judgment for the whole debt but payment of nothing. Therefore, the importance of reaching out to your adversary and coming to a reasonable settlement, if possible, cannot be overstated.

Mexican courts are VERY slow, the resorts have lawyers who know how to delay this until you die. 

Having said all this there is much to be admired about Mexican law vs. US law which can be very litigious.  Mexican law avoids a lot of that and forces the parties to come to a compromise.  So I agree with the responder that expressed a preference for Mexican law vs. US.
So to reiterate, my point is Mexican law is different (not worse or better but different) than what we are used to in the US.  You are playing on their ground by their rules so you have to understand them. 


Someone wanted to know the identity of the resort, “call them out”.  That is not necessary,  my method is applicable to any adhesion contract in Mexico.  That is my message.  


I am not picking on Mexico.  In fact it is ironic that most of the grifters are Americans (and a few Canadians) cheating mainly American and Canadian tourists.  The resort is owned by Americans and the sales staff are American.  The only people that really helped me were Mexicans.


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## buceo

Karen G said:


> ...The English contract was different than the official Spanish contract and it was done so to deceive the consumer...
> 
> ...Someone wanted to know the identity of the resort, “call them out”.  That is not necessary...



Very interesting what you went through, no doubt exhausting. Glad it turned out reasonably well.  However what I think are the two most valuable pieces of information to help others are left out?  What was in the contract that was fraudulent, people could easily watch for that and what resort is practicing fraud in their contracts?  For others to have to pursue what you did is extremely difficult, as you know. If they could just watch for these two items, who is defrauding and how, they could avoid completely what you went through.

It's also interesting why you wanted out in the first place, what started this over "several thousand dollars"?

And thanks for this summary, maybe it's just me, but I didn't get this from the earlier posts:
Having said all this there is much to be admired about Mexican law vs. US law which can be very litigious. Mexican law avoids a lot of that and forces the parties to come to a compromise. So I agree with the responder that expressed a preference for Mexican law vs. US.
So to reiterate, my point is Mexican law is different (not worse or better but different) than what we are used to in the US. You are playing on their ground by their rules so you have to understand them.


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## MuranoJo

Karen G said:


> I am not picking on Mexico.  In fact it is ironic that most of the grifters are Americans (and a few Canadians) cheating mainly American and Canadian tourists.  The resort is owned by Americans and the sales staff are American.  The only people that really helped me were Mexicans.



We met a couple of U.S. guys in PV a few years ago who were sly timeshare salesmen.  They worked the Malecon and would chat up the tourists, posing as fellow tourists who were living there for an extended vacation.  Very good at suggesting dining and touring suggestions, then gradually working in a suggestion to do a t/s presentation.

Karen, thanks for posting this on behalf of the other TUGger.  Interesting to hear of the MX vs. English versions of the contracts.  I doubt many know of this.


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## nazclk

*Mexican Resorts*

are notorius for being crooks. They will skin you alive while talking to you and you won't even know it.  Thousands have been scammed. :hysterical:


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## Passepartout

Hard enough to prove fraud, but when it involves one contract in Spanish, approved by Profeco and another- presumably just an English translation- that differs materially would be hard to chase down.

Great legwork on the part of the OP! Who'd'a thought.

Jim


----------



## rrsafety

buceo said:


> Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>?  It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud?  I didn't read it that way.  I read it that the OP wanted out of the purchase (why was that, the scam part, "the usual" you can rent for a small fortune claims etc?) and because the contracts were different he could get out of it.  Did I get that wrong, wouldn't be the first time? I'm not seeing in his reported instance why fraud (defrauded) and Mexico are in the same sentence referring to the contracts.  "Illegal" yes because they were somehow different & that's protected against, but not fraudulent?  It's not real important that I understand this, I just don't. Thanks.



Is it your contention that Mexico timeshare resorts don't lie to prospective buyers? Really? You are surprised that a TS might be engaging in fraud?

Heaven forbid!! :rofl:


----------



## buceo

rrsafety said:


> Is it your contention that Mexico timeshare resorts don't lie to prospective buyers? Really? You are surprised that a TS might be engaging in fraud?
> 
> Heaven forbid!! :rofl:



My contention was succinctly once put by another poster on a similar issue:
*"It's a resort not a country"*.  It's almost irrelevant to ask "what an entire country does"; unless maybe a government condones fraud then maybe lump the entire country together. In my case at my resorts in MX, no they didn't lie to sell units. Sales will put a positive outlook on most things, but not commit fraud in my experience.  

Things I still don't understand are:
1) What was/are the fraudulent statement(s) 
2) What resort was it, for all I know it's where I own, I'd like to know (I've never compared my English/Spanish contracts & don't plan to, but I'm not looking to get my money back)
3) Why doesn't the poster post?  Why the posting for them?
4) As described, my understanding would be the entire membership of unsaid resort could get their money back?  That'd shake things just a bit.


----------



## Karen G

Well, I can answer a few of your questions since I posted for the person:  



buceo said:


> Things I still don't understand are:
> 1) What was/are the fraudulent statement(s)
> I don't know.
> 
> 2) What resort was it, for all I know it's where I own, I'd like to know (I've never compared my English/Spanish contracts & don't plan to, but I'm not looking to get my money back)
> 
> It was not your resort--it was in Cabo.
> 
> 3) Why doesn't the poster post?
> I don't know.
> 
> Why the posting for them?
> 
> He sent me a private message and I felt his experience was worth sharing here to help others in similar situations.
> 
> 4) As described, my understanding would be the entire membership of unsaid resort could get their money back?  That'd shake things just a bit.
> Yes, it would seem that way.


----------



## buceo

Karen G said:


> Well, I can answer a few of your questions since I posted for the person:



An thanks so much for moderating, excellent job, very much appreciated!

per #4 above

4) As described, my understanding would be the entire membership of unsaid resort could get their money back? That'd shake things just a bit.
Yes, it would seem that way.

That would be excellent, get a few (or a lot) of owners to go at this together like the OP did, wow.


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## ajinscottsdale

*How to get out of a right to use contract in Mexico*

Here is a letter in Spanish which allows you to cancel a "right to use" membership in Mexico.  It also states that they resort can not share your information with anyone (like send you to collections) The letter references Mexican consumer protection laws - PROFECO  You must send it in Spanish to the resort address on your contract.  

(Your city and state, today's date)




Atención: (name of legal representative who signed the contract)
		Apoderado Legal 


Estimados señores: 


 		Referente al Contrato de Prestación de Servicios de fecha date of purchase, (“El Contrato”), celebrado por y entre  official name of company on the contract. (“El Prestador”), y your name  (“El Usuario”), mismo que se anexa a la presente formando parte integral de la misma. (Anexo 1)

		En relación con lo anterior y de conformidad con lo dispuesto en el artículo 71 de la Ley Federal de Protección al Consumidor y por medio de la presente, expresa y formalmente le notificamos que con efectos a partir de la recepción de la presente, se da por rescindido el Contrato de Prestación de Servicios de fecha date of your contract de forma inmediata y sin mediar responsabilidad legal y económica alguna para con “El usuario”.


		Aunado a lo anterior, con fundamento en lo dispuesto por la Ley Federal de Proteccion de Datos Personales en Posesion de Particulares y su Reglamento, por medio de la presente vengo a ejercer mi derecho ARCO de ACCESO, CANCELACION Y OPOSICION, de mis datos personales que ustedes tienen en resguardo.	 

		Sin otro particular por el momento, quedamos a sus órdenes para cualquier aclaración o duda en relación con lo anterior.


Atentamente,



_______________________
“El Usuario” (your signature)

Por: ___________________________
Nombre:  (full name typed)      

	_______________________
“El Usuario” (your signature)

Por: ___________________________
Nombre:  (full name typed)


----------



## Karen G

ajinscottsdale said:


> Here is a letter in Spanish which allows you to cancel a "right to use" membership in Mexico.  It also states that they resort can not share your information with anyone (like send you to collections) The letter references Mexican consumer protection laws - PROFECO  You must send it in Spanish to the resort address on your contract.



When you say this letter cancels a "right to use" membership, do you mean cancels it within the five days right of rescission? Or do you mean cancels the contract at any time the buyer wants to?


----------



## Karen G

This is how Google Translate translates this letter:


Attention: (name of legal representative who signed the contract)
Legal guardian


Dear Sirs:


Concerning the Servicing Agreement dated date of purchase, ("The Agreement"), entered into by and between official name of company on the contract. ("Lender"), and your name ("User"), the same is annexed hereto form an integral part thereof. (Annex 1)

In connection with the foregoing and in accordance with the provisions of Article 71 of the Federal Consumer Protection and hereby expressly and formally notified that with effect from receipt of this letter, is given by terminate the Servicing Agreement dated date of your contract immediately and without any economic and legal responsibility towards "User".


Added to this, based on the provisions of the Federal Law on Protection of Personal Data held by individuals and their Regulation by means of this come to exercise my right entrance arch, cancellation and opposition of my personal data you have to safeguard.

Without further for now, we remain at your disposal for any clarification or questions regarding the above.


Sincerely,



_______________________
"The User" (your signature)

By: ___________________________
Name: (full name typed)

_______________________
"The User" (your signature)

By: ___________________________
Name: (full name typed)


----------



## Bobby_regrets

I'm within the 5 day time period- Do I have a chance of getting my money back?

My wife and I went to Cancun Sunset World Lagoon resort. I didn't know it was a timeshare deal until too late, if I had known I wouldn't have gone.  Anyways on the second day (Tuesday) we had the 3 hr breakfast, tour and then the high pressure talk with all sorts of promises. We'll buy it back after 3 years with a handsome profit for you, we'll sell you three weeks for the price of one, take back two weeks a year for marketing and pay you $1500 each for three years, etc. With both the salesman, my wife and the boss guy hounding me, I finally gave in- heck it was going to be practically free. A $9,000 deposit later we walked out the door. 

I couldn't sleep for two nights but couldn't do anything about it because we were on tours. On the Thursday I decided to interview some members and see if the deal was true. Some were very happy with the resort but basically said don't count on any equity or other promises. Then my wife turned and asked what had I got us into? 

So on Friday I wrote out a rescinding/cancelling letter as in the contract and marched over to see the sales rep. He met us downstairs and said we had signed an immediate activation and waived the 5 day cancellation period in the contract. There was nothing we could do. I remember the immediate start they "allowed us" to have to the glorious opportunities of the membership, but I don't remember signing away any rights. Funny it's the only thing I might have signed for which I don't have a copy. 

That afternoon I found this and other sites and the PROFECO document, saying we can't sign our rights away. I then e-mailed the cancellation letter to the financial officer who signed the deal, noting PROFECO and how we should be able to cancel. I also e-mailed profeco using the e-mail on the brochure. 

When we got home today (Monday) I sent off by UPS a cancellation letter to the domicile address in Cancun (cost of $76.00!) and contacted AMEX about the charges.  According to my calculations I have until tomorrow before the five days are up. I have received no responses at all and either get left on hold at the resort end or get an error message when I try to leave a message.

Is there anything else I can do to try and get this money back? I contacted some lawyers today but they are asking up to $1500 US to help.

Any help or reassurances appreciated. This sure ruined the vacation and many more to come if we don't get back the money!


----------



## Karen G

Bobby_regrets said:


> Any help or reassurances appreciated. This sure ruined the vacation and many more to come if we don't get back the money!


 You've done everything you can. Notify your credit card company and certainly notify Profeco if you don't get a prompt refund. You are within your rights of rescission. Hopefully you have proof that you mailed the rescission letter within the five business day period. Now just sit back and wait for that refund.


----------



## Bobby_regrets

*I hope this works out*



Karen G said:


> You've done everything you can. Notify your credit card company and certainly notify Profeco if you don't get a prompt refund. You are within your rights of rescission. Hopefully you have proof that you mailed the rescission letter within the five business day period. Now just sit back and wait for that refund.



Thanks for the reassurance. I notified AMEX and I have the UPS tracking  number and receipt. There were about 4 addresses listed and I wasn't sure which one to use, so I used their Mexican "domicile" . I hope AMEX and Profeco support us on this. We have certainly learned our lesson and will be more careful in the future. I'll report back on any refund or progress. If they don't I will hit the review sites and post my experience.


----------



## Passepartout

The correct address has to be listed in your packet, but you can bet it isn't easy to find. Prolly down in that 2-point fine print.

Good Luck. We wish you well.


----------



## Bobby_regrets

Update:

After many e-mails to every address I could find, I received a call from the resort acknowledging receipt of the cancellation request.  They now want to charge us full rack rate for our room ($120/day each, not including the all-inclusive fee that we paid) for our stay. A bit of a rip-off but better than the timeshare/right-to-use contract. 

Light at the end of the tunnel and I'm starting to relax for the first time since the time share presentation. Now I feel like going on a holiday! (Especially since it's like -10F outside).


----------



## Passepartout

Bobby_regrets said:


> Update:
> 
> After many e-mails to every address I could find, I received a call from the resort acknowledging receipt of the cancellation request.  They now want to charge us full rack rate for our room ($120/day each, not including the all-inclusive fee that we paid) for our stay.



As you say, better a short term sting than a long term heart ache. Write 'em back and say that you are overjoyed to find out ahead of time how they REALLY operate and that you are sure you'll never darken their door again.

Glad you found TUG. Welcome.


----------



## Karen G

Bobby_regrets said:


> Update:
> 
> After many e-mails to every address I could find, I received a call from the resort acknowledging receipt of the cancellation request.  They now want to charge us full rack rate for our room ($120/day each, not including the all-inclusive fee that we paid) for our stay. A bit of a rip-off but better than the timeshare/right-to-use contract.
> 
> Light at the end of the tunnel and I'm starting to relax for the first time since the time share presentation. Now I feel like going on a holiday! (Especially since it's like -10F outside).


 Did you pay for the room on your credit card?  I think I'd dispute that added charge, maybe AFTER you get your money back on the timeshare presentation. There's no justification for changing the room rate now because I'll bet there's no written statement anywhere that says they'll charge more for the room if you don't buy the timeshare.  If going to the presentation was a requirement for a special room rate, you met that requirement by attending the presentation.


----------



## Bobby_regrets

Yes we did have the stipulation about going to their 90-120 min talk, and that we wouldn't get sidetracked and attend any other presentations. We certainly lived up to that one. I'll send them the info tomorrow and copy AMEX, with whom we opened a dispute. It seems we signed a doc when we did the tour that read 'this letter is to inform what we are providing you accommodation as you became a new member for 6 days at Sunset marina.'  I didn't think much about it as we had already paid for the darn accommodation. 

The TUG resource is great- unfortunately I was so busy before heading off on this vacation I didn't have time to do much research. Next vacation I'll search here first for rental accommodations and reviews.


----------



## FamilyMan

*It's almost over*

We were successful in rescinding our timeshare with Westin in Cancun (see page 8 of this thread for my story)... well, it's now been a year we are still monitoring our credit card and hoping nothing else will go wrong.

Here's my story... continued.

After getting our refund, we thought that was over and we were in the clear. But to our surprise, our credit card was being charged for unauthorized transactions coming from Mexico. We don't live there and haven't been back yet. Our credit card company notified us of the charges and luckily we were able to remove them. I'm disappointed by the whole situation and it is very likely that my card information (which i only used for the timeshare) was somehow shared or fallen into the wrong hands.

We have since signed up for credit monitoring services with Canadian credit bureaus to keep track of our credit profile. For Canadians, we used Credit Reports Canada to obtain our report. I'm not sure what it is for U.S. but I'm sure you can Google it. We have closed our credit card and got a new one and now can sleep much better knowing nothing new can be charged on our credit card.

Based on my experience, I would like to just let readers know that even though you may have been successful in getting your refund, keep an eye on your credit card and credit history. We had unauthorized charges and also someone was applying for new credit in Mexico using our information. This showed up on the credit report.

After receiving our refund, we should have called MasterCard and asked for a new card. That way, no one can process any charges under the old credit card number without our consent. Anyhow, best of luck to everyone who is trying to rescind a contract.


----------



## katev

*Fighting Back Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach*

I too was suckered/pressured into buying.  I put a deposit down of $5K and now I'm stuck.  Will try to cancel the contract but since I found all these information after my 5th day, then they get to keep the money as liquidated damages.

I have created a closed group in facebook:

Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach Timeshare Scams Facebook Group

If you are interested in joining and fighting back, look it up.

Facebook is powerful and hopefully this gets their attention.


----------



## Passepartout

katev said:


> I too was suckered/pressured into buying.  I put a deposit down of $5K and now I'm stuck.  Will try to cancel the contract but since I found all these information after my 5th day, then they get to keep the money as liquidated damages.
> 
> I have created a closed group in facebook:
> 
> Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach Timeshare Scams Facebook Group
> 
> If you are interested in joining and fighting back, look it up.
> 
> Facebook is powerful and hopefully this gets their attention.



Good luck. You might have more success, though, appealing your purchase to Profeco. Search or look above for their address. Others have had success rescinding late by getting them involved.

Pressure and intimidation is how Mexican timeshares are marketed. You are not the first, nor will you be the last person who saw value in owning the right to use one. Many TUG members made their first purchase from a developer before discovering TUG. If it turns out you are not able to rescind, come back and learn how to make the best use of what you bought.

Welcome to TUG.


----------



## Karen G

Passepartout said:


> Good luck. You might have more success, though, appealing your purchase to Profeco. Search or look above for their address.


You'll find a link to Profecto in the first post of this very long thread.


----------



## katev

Passepartout said:


> Good luck. You might have more success, though, appealing your purchase to Profeco. Search or look above for their address. Others have had success rescinding late by getting them involved.
> 
> Pressure and intimidation is how Mexican timeshares are marketed. You are not the first, nor will you be the last person who saw value in owning the right to use one. Many TUG members made their first purchase from a developer before discovering TUG. If it turns out you are not able to rescind, come back and learn how to make the best use of what you bought.
> 
> Welcome to TUG.


Thanks!  I did reach out to them and they promptly replied but told me that under Mexican law I can't do much after 5 days to get my deposit back, but they can help me get out of the contract.   It's too bad, I loved the resort, but it has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I may never go back.


----------



## Ontario

tdjo1978 said:


> I received an email Friday from Profeco.  They have filed a complaint against Sunset & are scheduled to meet on our behalf as of April 24, 2012.
> 
> I have blocked the financial advisor's email address from sending anymore emails to me.  I figured I would start being contacted by someone else by now, but it has been 3 quiet & peaceful weeks since I have heard anything from them.  I still figure that I will hear something from someone with Sunset soon, but I have been so thankful for this time they have left us alone!  Also, I just contacted our credit card company that issued us the chargeback for the amount Sunset charged us at the signing of the contract.  I am so excited because Sunset never appealed our dispute with the charges.  Sunset had 60 days to file an appeal with our credit card company and they didn't!  That means that our chargeback is final & Sunset can not get that money :whoopie:   I just had our card information changed so that they can't try to charge anything else to it in the future.
> 
> This is all I have to update at this time.



Hello, Could you please provide an update to your case? I have the similar situation like yours with the Sunset Group. Please advise as what your next step.....thanks in advance.....


----------



## Ontario

Hello Karen G would you kindly post the Article 86 in englisg as well as Article 86 in Spanish?  I could not find the article 86 in spanish to see what are the different? Thanks in advance...


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## Passepartout

Ontario said:


> *RE:  tdjo1978* Hello, Could you please provide an update to your case? I have the similar situation like yours with the Sunset Group. Please advise as what your next step.....thanks in advance.....



You are asking an answer to a thread over 1 1/2 yeas old, of a poster who hasn't been on TUG for 14 months. Perhaps if you click on their blue username and send them an email you'd have better results.

Best wishes on your 'similar situation'.

Jim


----------



## Karen G

Ontario said:


> Hello Karen G would you kindly post the Article 86 in englisg as well as Article 86 in Spanish?  I could not find the article 86 in spanish to see what are the different? Thanks in advance...



I'm not sure what you are referring to, but you can always copy and paste something into Google translate for a translation from one language to another.  Click  here  to try it.


----------



## Ontario

Thanks to both Passepartout and Karen G. I wish I have discovered this educated timeshare forum before I made the stupiest decision of buying into the tiemshare scam. I really feel so ashamed and embarrassed about what I did.


----------



## Passepartout

Ontario said:


> Thanks to both Passepartout and Karen G. I wish I have discovered this educated timeshare forum before I made the stupiest decision of buying into the tiemshare scam. I really feel so ashamed and embarrassed about what I did.



Don't beat yourself up too badly over this. I'd estimate that many, if not most TUGgers bought their first timeshare from a developer. Some have even bought subsequent ones that way.

Now that you've found us, you might as well stick around and learn how to use what you own, where to go, how to rent it if you want to. We're generally a pretty friendly bunch- except a few old grouches and leg-pullers. 

Don't be a stranger.

Jim


----------



## Ontario

Passepartout said:


> Don't beat yourself up too badly over this. I'd estimate that many, if not most TUGgers bought their first timeshare from a developer. Some have even bought subsequent ones that way.
> 
> Now that you've found us, you might as well stick around and learn how to use what you own, where to go, how to rent it if you want to. We're generally a pretty friendly bunch- except a few old grouches and leg-pullers.
> 
> Don't be a stranger.
> 
> Jim



We are filing a complaint with PROFECO, still awaiting for their response. I am not really sure how long this would take for PROFECO to resolve this problem. We sent our complaint on July 22/13.


----------



## Ontario

katev said:


> Thanks!  I did reach out to them and they promptly replied but told me that under Mexican law I can't do much after 5 days to get my deposit back, but they can help me get out of the contract.   It's too bad, I loved the resort, but it has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I may never go back.



Hello Katev, any updates on your case?


----------



## Ontario

Hello All, need some helps on the following: 

We received email from the membership services Department. They said that we have signed the " Instant Activation Request". 

She sent me this from Mexican law:
ARTICLE 56.- The contract shall be perfected five business days from the delivery of the good sold or the signing of the contract, whichever comes later. During such term, the consumer shall be entitled to revoke his consent, without any liability whatsoever. The revocation shall be made by giving notice or by delivering the good sold in person, through registered mail or through other means to serve such notice in a legally unquestionable manner. The revocation made pursuant this article shall render the transaction null and void, and the supplier shall reimburse the price paid to the consumer. In this case, the freight and insurance costs shall be borne by the consumer. *With respect to services, the above shall not apply if the date when the service is rendered is within ten business days or less from the date of the purchase order. *She states that this last sentence refers to the form we signed while being transferred to the new resort. She says that this DOES waive the right for us to cancel our contract because we received services of the club. 

We don't have a copy of this document in our package. And then when we requested for that document, they were able to produce that document and emailed us that signed document. 

Are we bound by this "Instant Activation Request"? We did rescind our contract within 5 business day according to PROFECO.


----------



## Passepartout

PROFECO will tell you that you CANNOT waive the right to rescind. Inform the weasels that you know that and to continue the rescission. Notify PROFECO of their tactic.

Good Luck!

ETA: What they gave you by upgrading your unit was a perk. A gift for attending their presentation. If they want to call it something else, it's a lie, just like the rest.


----------



## Bobby_regrets

Indeed they tried that with us as well, exactly the same form. You cannot waive your right to rescind. Just ignore it.  They will then say you need to pay the full rack rate of the hotel at an outrageous rate. Did you pay by credit card?  Get a dispute going, send the card company the information and then wait three months. We eventually got all the money credited back to the card. The card company puts the charges on hold until the dispute is settled.


----------



## Ontario

Bobby_regrets said:


> Indeed they tried that with us as well, exactly the same form. You cannot waive your right to rescind. Just ignore it.  They will then say you need to pay the full rack rate of the hotel at an outrageous rate. Did you pay by credit card?  Get a dispute going, send the card company the information and then wait three months. We eventually got all the money credited back to the card. The card company puts the charges on hold until the dispute is settled.




We filed a dispute with both VISA and MC and still awaiting for their response. That was in July 2013. How long did you wait to get your refund from your credit card company? How long did you wait to get your contract cancelled? did you get a signed copy of your cancellation?


----------



## Ontario

I remembered from *Karen G (Dec 13, 2011)* mentioned, and I quote "It sounds like their attempt to get around the Mexican law that pertains specifically to the sale of a timeshare. They were selling you the right to use a timeshare property for a specific number of years--not a one-time stay at a hotel. Stick to your guns here. You rescinded within the legally specified time period. Keep reiterating this to them and don't let them wear you down. Follow through with Profeco. Dispute the charge with your credit card". And I quote from *Karen G* "I assume your contract was for the right to use the timeshare for a given number of years. You didn't receive that service, therefore this part of the law doesn't apply to you".  Karen G, May I please have your permission to use these phrases to email the membership services Department?


----------



## Ontario

Passepartout said:


> PROFECO will tell you that you CANNOT waive the right to rescind. Inform the weasels that you know that and to continue the rescission. Notify PROFECO of their tactic.
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> ETA: What they gave you by upgrading your unit was a perk. A gift for attending their presentation. If they want to call it something else, it's a lie, just like the rest.



Thanks Passpartout...I'll keep you posted....


----------



## Terry Lee

*Why didn't I find this site before attending a Grand Mayan presentation??!!*

This is to advise that the complaint has been satisfactorily resolved.

Thank you!!


----------



## mikenk

I would like to simplify your recommendations a bit based on many timeshare experiences  in Mexico and elsewhere( including the dreaded Grand Mayan ones). 

First, recognize that all timeshare sales people have a fundamental problem; they are selling a product that has very little value for a big price. If you don't know that or know what you can buy the same unit on the resale market, then don't go to any timeshare presentation.

Second, your current timeshare has very little value - most likely none at all. If you are not aware of that fact, don't go to any timeshare sales presentation as they will prey on your ignorance.

Third, I agree with you here, don't go to any sales anywhere without your own mode of transportation. 

Fourth, The contract rules (not words) in any business transaction anywhere in the world. If you don't understand that, then don't go to any business transactional meeting. Believing a sales person that they will guarantee something that is not written in the contract is as much on you as on them. Shame on them for lying; shame on you for believing.

fifth, if you do go to the presentation, remember you are in complete control for five days. What they put in the contract is binding on them - not you. You are free to change, negotiate, and rescind during that time - BUT YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO READ THE CONTRACT AND ACT.

The bottom line: knowledge will always defeat timeshare sales people. If you are not willing to learn and use it, stay away.

Mike


----------



## Terry Lee

This is to advise that the complaint has been satisfactorily resolved.


----------



## rniver

My wife and I signed a contract with Grand Miramar in Puero Vallarta and subsequently decided to cancel it because we determined that the entire agreement was most likely a scam. 

In return for us purchasing five weeks from them, Grand Miramar promised to resell several timeshares we already owned at a significant profit to us. They also promised us a stream of guaranteed income for ten years by remarketing our Grand Miramar weeks. We later discovered that they had made similar promises to many other purchasers, but have never delivered. Once we learned about this history of unfulfilled guarantees, we decided to cancel the agreement as quickly as possible.

We acted within 5 business days and went through a cancellation process that involved Grand Miramar, Mexico’s Consumer Protection office (Profeco), and our credit card provider. We procured a legal order from the Profeco to rescind the contract and have received a full credit on our Visa card. 

While still in Puerto Vallarta, visit the Profeco office at Avenida Francisco Villa 900. Col. Las Gaviotas.  They have a dedicated lawyer on staff between 10:00am and 2:00pm weekdays to assist you.  The legal counsel we spoke with, Gabriella Gonzales, was extremely helpful.  Just be persistent.

The Profeco has a dedicated office to assist non-Mexicans who are already outside the country, the Conciliation a Extranjeros. You can reach them by email at extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx or by phone at one of the following numbers:
 (0155) 52 11 17 23,
 (0155) 56 25 67 00,
 (01 800) 46 88 722


----------



## Karen G

rniver said:


> We acted within 5 business days and went through a cancellation process that involved Grand Miramar, Mexico’s Consumer Protection office (Profeco), and our credit card provider. We procured a legal order from the Profeco to rescind the contract and have received a full credit on our Visa card.


Thanks so much for your post. Glad you were successful.


----------



## Passepartout

The above post- or at least the phone contacts to Profeco should be prominently posted. Many TUGgers and new visitors to the site could benefit.

Jim


----------



## Karen G

Passepartout said:


> The above post- or at least the phone contacts to Profeco should be prominently posted. Many TUGgers and new visitors to the site could benefit.
> 
> Jim


Good suggestion, Jim. I've put a note in the first post of this long thread directing people to the above post.


----------



## Ontario

Ontario said:


> Thanks Passpartout...I'll keep you posted....



Just want to let you know the updates for my case. We filed a dispute with credit card company and finally we were successfully have our money refunded. Going forward from here, just wonder if we should worry about this Timeshare company from Cancun is going to threathen us with anything.....Any suggestions....would be helpful...


----------



## Passepartout

Ontario said:


> Just want to let you know the updates for my case. We filed a dispute with credit card company and finally* we were successfully have our money refunded.* Going forward from here, just wonder if we should worry about this Timeshare company from Cancun is going to threathen us with anything.....Any suggestions....would be helpful...



This is a great update. We're glad you got your money refunded. As to any retribution against you, Don't worry about it. They have moved on to the next victim by now. On the other hand, next time you are in Cancun, don't go to a presentation at this TS. Or preferably at ANY TS. And get yourself a TUG T-shirt from http://www.cafepress.com/timeshare and wear it proudly. Take a Magic Marker and write "*TUG saved me $XX,XXX*" on the back in bold letters.

Thanks again for the update.

Jim


----------



## Tropical lady

*Profeco is at airport!*

I have not seen this mentioned before........
Upon leaving PVR Dec 20th, just across from the ticket counters, I noticed a Profeco office set up, a large sign, and they were taking pictures, as if it was opening.  I meant to go and check it out, but did not.
Does anyone kow for sure that you have access to them in person at the airport?


----------



## melliemel112

*Only regret in life*

Someone please help! This may be a day late and a dollar short but in 2011 I signed up for a timeshare with Occidental. By their wheeling and dealing I bought into the "if you forgo the timeframe of the X amount of days to decide not to stay with your contract, we'll include...blah, blah, blah". I've never used it, probably won't be able to and this is a HUGE regret of mine. I want to just stop paying. But I know that is not the answer. What kind of recourse do I even have?

Please help!


----------



## LannyPC

melliemel112 said:


> Someone please help!... I want to just stop paying. But I know that is not the answer. What kind of recourse do I even have?



First of all, there are many here on TUG who are in a situation like yours where we fell for the glitz and glamour of a sales presentation and believed everything the sales person(s) told us hook, line, and sinker.

Here is an article about defaulting on your maintenance fees:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/stop_paying_for_timeshare.html

You can also try contacting Profeco.

One thing to watch out for now is all the scams aimed at TS owners, especially ones of Mexican TSs.  They will probably phone you constantly with great-sounding offers (eg., sell your timeshare for megabucks; cancel your mortgage; cancel your TS contract, etc.) if you pay them an upfront fee.

Don't fall for these because they are almost always scams.

Another possibility is to contact they resort personally and see if you can work out an amicable solution to end your TS agreement.  There have been a number here on TUG who have reported success in doing that provided they remove any posts they may have made in public forums like this one.

The other piece of advice we give to people in situations like yours is to learn how to "make lemonade out of lemons".  When you were at the presentation, you probably saw something good out of your purchase such as the ability to exchange and lodge in TSs (as opposed to motel rooms or guest houses) in other parts of the world.  Keep looking and lurking here on TUG to find advice how to make best use of what you purchased.


----------



## lmbowling

pammex said:


> I have also been to PB Emerald Bay presentation and it was very low key...actually almost too low key..I have no clue how they sell any.  It is a lovely resort though and we may have bought had a little more umph been put in.....maybe a fractional or even fT owership, either way worked out for best!



We just got back from PB Emerald Bay and I emphatically agree - this was the softest sell of any timeshare presentation I have ever been to.  And we LOVED the resort.  Might easily have considered a fractional!


----------



## indyjuli

Terry,  Were you succesfully able to rescind your timeshare in Mexico?  I bought in May and made a terrible mistake.  Can you offer any help or refer me to someone?

Camelot


----------



## Passepartout

Looking at your other posts since you found TUG, it appears that you bought a Mexican timeshare, and that you've gone past the legally required rescission period. And now you want out. How am I doing so far? 

I really wish I had better news for you, but here it is. You probably are the proud new owner of the use of a week in a nice timeshare condo, and the obligation of the fees that go with it. It is very likely that it has little resale value, and that the resort won't let you just cancel without turning you over to collection and threatening to ruin your credit.

Many, if not most TUGgers found us the same way, and some even bought more weeks from developers. I think you saw value in what you saw at that presentation. So at this point, the thing to do is to learn how to use it for the great vacations and getaways that it can give you. Don't beat yourself up. 

Welcome to TUG.

Jim


----------



## indyjuli

Jim,
The sales pitch at the Mayan was deceitful and unfortunately I fell prey to their unethical sales practices. I was given a trade in value for my time share to use to offset the cost.  They pulled out the maintenance fee sheet to illustrate how much a person is paying for a life time of fees.  Yet, they don't discuss how the $570 fee is really a maintenance fee in disguise.  They told me that my Palm Springs TC time share was only rated a 2 on a scale of 5 for all time shares.  What did that really mean?  They kept bringing up the class action suit from RCI..... as a means for people to learn about it by attending their presentation.  So, how would this knowledge really help me?    Then they give me a year of RCI... huh?  I couldn't afford 2 units and the kitchen so they came back with the studio (no kitchen) and then began crunching numbers.  

So much information was being thrown at me and I was trying to understand and process it in a limited time.  Plus, I was tired of being there for over 4 hours.  When I was told them that I needed a day to think about it, they said, oh no we can't do this.  I was having a difficult time understanding the one week for 10 years, and then 2 more units for another 100 years?  Then add in the rental off $1,000 for my unit to help offset the balance of the purchase.  How do I know that this studio is guaranteed to rent?  I also was told that golfers want to pay big bucks to stay at this resort and that I could not stay there for a few years so that my unit could be rented to this big spenders? Plus add in VIDA and all their rules..  How could anyone possibly understand all this in such a short period and by myself??  

Granted, I feel scammed and taken advantage of like so many of you.  It is certainly not a good feeling.  I feel sick to my stomach as I keep researching all the scams here.  I found TUG after my 5 day rescindence  period.  I want out of my contract.  I left a message with the resort today and am waiting for a call back.  Do I have any recourse?  Can I get my deposit back?  I haven't started the monthly payments yet and don't want to pay them.  

Can anyone help me get out of a contract that went wrong?  I am using this forum for support and advice.  I left the sales people bully me and I have learned a life lesson.  

Why did I let the pressure get the best of me?  When something sounds too good to be true, this should have been a BIG red flag.  

If someone could please give me some sound advise on how to end this contract or fight it, I would greatly appreciate your help.   Sick to my stomach, in California....


----------



## Karen G

indyjuli, I feel your pain. So many people have posted on TUG with similar stories. Go back to the first post in this thread and click on the contact info for Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. You have nothing to lose by contacting them, especially if you feel there was fraud involved in your contract.  

Somewhere in this thread is a contact number for the Vida group customer service dept. and some have reported a resolution to their problems through that dept.

I hope you can find some relief.


----------



## Karen G

indyjuli, see post #12 in  this thread for
contact info for the Vida group customer service dept.


----------



## Passepartout

indyjuli said:


> Jim,
> *What did that really mean? * They kept bringing up the class action suit from RCI..... as a means for people to learn about it by attending their presentation.  So, how would this knowledge really help me?    Then they give me a year of RCI... huh?  I couldn't afford 2 units and the kitchen so they came back with the studio (no kitchen) and then began crunching numbers.
> 
> So much information was being thrown at me and I was trying to understand and process it in a limited time.  Plus, I was tired of being there for over 4 hours.  When I was told them that I needed a day to think about it, they said, oh no we can't do this.  I was having a difficult time understanding the one week for 10 years, and then 2 more units for another 100 years?  Then add in the rental off $1,000 for my unit to help offset the balance of the purchase.  *How do I know that this studio is guaranteed to rent?*  I also was told that golfers want to pay big bucks to stay at this resort and that I could not stay there for a few years so that my unit could be rented to this big spenders? Plus add in VIDA and all their rules.. * How could anyone possibly understand all this in such a short period and by myself?*?
> 
> Granted, I feel scammed and taken advantage of like so many of you.  It is certainly not a good feeling.  I feel sick to my stomach as I keep researching all the scams here.  I found TUG after my 5 day rescindence  period.  I want out of my contract.  I left a message with the resort today and am waiting for a call back. * Do I have any recourse?* *Can I get my deposit back?*  I haven't started the monthly payments yet and don't want to pay them.
> 
> Can anyone help me get out of a contract that went wrong?  I am using this forum for support and advice.  I left the sales people bully me and I have learned a life lesson.
> 
> Why did I let the pressure get the best of me? * When something sounds too good to be true, this should have been a BIG red flag.*



You've put so much in your stream-of-conscience post that we've seen so many times before. I'll try to address them, but sadly, I don't know that it will either give you any ammunition to cancel the contract, or make you feel better about your purchase. 

They kept you captive there and wore you down. They have answers for any reason why you should not buy. You are NOT alone.

First, they LIED. Over and over, they LIED. It was all smoke and mirrors. The RCI class action was B.S. It meant next to nothing to owners.

Can it be rented? No. Not for what your MF is. If there was a way to profitably rent to 'high rolling golfers', don't you think they'd be renting them instead of selling them to tourists?

You're wasting your time thinking that contacting the resort will result in being able to cancel after the rescission period has ended. It won't happen.

One thing we HAVE seen work is starting threads here on TUG, at TS4MS. Redweek, any other social networks you have access to. Post prominently. Big font. In color. Tell about the predatory sales practices. Email 'Karen Rose' with links to your rants. It won't happen quickly, but if you get some responses, they will cancel your contract under the condition that you post something like 'My complaint against VIDA was brought to a satisfactory conclusion.' or some such disclaimer. 

Obviously, open a case with PROFECO. Can't hurt. Might help.

Or, I don't know how important your credit rating/score is to you, but you could simply not pay, force them to turn you in to collection. You'd lose whatever you put down, but in time your credit would be repaired. It's hard to say how much of a hit defaulting on a Mexican timeshare would do to your credit, but you have the right to put an explanatory letter in your credit file explaining any derogatory reports.

Good luck. I really wish I had better news for you. There are a few bad actors in the ranks of timeshare developers. Vida is one. Remember, they are operating in a country with different laws than here. We wish that you'd found us before you went to the presentation. We wish you'd just kept telling them no. We wish you'd been sick enough to your stomach and unable to sleep that you'd found us within 5 days after signing that contract. 

Yes, it was a life lesson, but hopefully one you can get over and move on from.

We wish you well, and are on your side.

Jim


----------



## indyjuli

Passepartout said:


> You've put so much in your stream-of-conscience post that we've seen so many times before. I'll try to address them, but sadly, I don't know that it will either give you any ammunition to cancel the contract, or make you feel better about your purchase.
> 
> They kept you captive there and wore you down. They have answers for any reason why you should not buy. You are NOT alone.
> 
> First, they LIED. Over and over, they LIED. It was all smoke and mirrors. The RCI class action was B.S. It meant next to nothing to owners.
> 
> Can it be rented? No. Not for what your MF is. If there was a way to profitably rent to 'high rolling golfers', don't you think they'd be renting them instead of selling them to tourists?
> 
> You're wasting your time thinking that contacting the resort will result in being able to cancel after the rescission period has ended. It won't happen.
> 
> One thing we HAVE seen work is starting threads here on TUG, at TS4MS. Redweek, any other social networks you have access to. Post prominently. Big font. In color. Tell about the predatory sales practices. Email 'Karen Rose' with links to your rants. It won't happen quickly, but if you get some responses, they will cancel your contract under the condition that you post something like 'My complaint against VIDA was brought to a satisfactory conclusion.' or some such disclaimer.
> 
> Obviously, open a case with PROFECO. Can't hurt. Might help.
> 
> Or, I don't know how important your credit rating/score is to you, but you could simply not pay, force them to turn you in to collection. You'd lose whatever you put down, but in time your credit would be repaired. It's hard to say how much of a hit defaulting on a Mexican timeshare would do to your credit, but you have the right to put an explanatory letter in your credit file explaining any derogatory reports.
> 
> Good luck. I really wish I had better news for you. There are a few bad actors in the ranks of timeshare developers. Vida is one. Remember, they are operating in a country with different laws than here. We wish that you'd found us before you went to the presentation. We wish you'd just kept telling them no. We wish you'd been sick enough to your stomach and unable to sleep that you'd found us within 5 days after signing that contract.
> 
> Yes, it was a life lesson, but hopefully one you can get over and move on from.
> 
> We wish you well, and are on your side.
> 
> Jim




Jim, thank you for your support and words of advise.  I feel so violated and can't understand how people/companies can be so deceitful and liars.  My stay at the Mayan Palace was nice except for going to the TS Presentation.  I will try to contact the folks you stated.  I called my credit card company about the down payment but they won't dispute it since it is under a contract.  I have excellent credit and if it means I have to tarnish it by not paying the remaining money, so be it.  

The good thing is that I did NOT pay Equity Acquisition to buy back my time share.  When they came back with, "you have a first right of refusal" so you can buy it back from us for $1,800.  That didn't sound right at all and since I was in my home territory and not pressured into paying that fee, I ignored them completely.  I still own my timeshare (which is paid in full) and am responsible for maintenance fees of about $600 annually.  I belong to Tricom Platinum Club which has NO membership fees and I have been able to exchange for a minimal fee.  They are honest and have delivered my requests.  Granted, they don't have the inventory or all of the high end resorts that  RCI or SFX has, it works for me since I am single and on a limited budget (I am an educator),

With that being said, I will wait for the resort to contact me so I can attempt to cancel.  I won't pay Equity Acquisition to give me back the timeshare that I already own.  I have an email into Profeco but not sure I'll hear anything. 

Like most of the folks on here, we just want honest and truthful selling practices.  It isn't a difficult thing to do, but they saw another ignorant American who would get confused with all the information and lies they presented and then feel pressured to give them everything.  Yes, it sounded too good to be true and I fell for it.

Sorry for being so negative but I am feeling overwhelmed as I am trying to get out of the mess I am in.  Thank you for your support, kind words and I am so glad that there are GOOD and honest people like you and others here on TUG who are willing to help us.  That means a lot!!

To be continued......  Juli


----------



## indyjuli

*Mayan Palace Woes*



Karen G said:


> indyjuli, I feel your pain. So many people have posted on TUG with similar stories. Go back to the first post in this thread and click on the contact info for Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. You have nothing to lose by contacting them, especially if you feel there was fraud involved in your contract.
> 
> Somewhere in this thread is a contact number for the Vida group customer service dept. and some have reported a resolution to their problems through that dept.
> 
> I hope you can find some relief.



Thank you Karen.  I left a message with CS and have NOT heard back from them yet.  I was told so many lies up front and during the grueling presentation.  I will also contact PROFECO and post to other forums to have my complaint noticed. 

Thank you all for your support. I need it NOW!   Juli


----------



## indyjuli

*Issue Resolved*



indyjuli said:


> Jim,
> The sales pitch at the Mayan was deceitful and unfortunately I fell prey to their unethical sales practices. I was given a trade in value for my time share to use to offset the cost.  They pulled out the maintenance fee sheet to illustrate how much a person is paying for a life time of fees.  Yet, they don't discuss how the $570 fee is really a maintenance fee in disguise.  They told me that my Palm Springs TC time share was only rated a 2 on a scale of 5 for all time shares.  What did that really mean?  They kept bringing up the class action suit from RCI..... as a means for people to learn about it by attending their presentation.  So, how would this knowledge really help me?    Then they give me a year of RCI... huh?  I couldn't afford 2 units and the kitchen so they came back with the studio (no kitchen) and then began crunching numbers.
> 
> So much information was being thrown at me and I was trying to understand and process it in a limited time.  Plus, I was tired of being there for over 4 hours.  When I was told them that I needed a day to think about it, they said, oh no we can't do this.  I was having a difficult time understanding the one week for 10 years, and then 2 more units for another 100 years?  Then add in the rental off $1,000 for my unit to help offset the balance of the purchase.  How do I know that this studio is guaranteed to rent?  I also was told that golfers want to pay big bucks to stay at this resort and that I could not stay there for a few years so that my unit could be rented to this big spenders? Plus add in VIDA and all their rules..  How could anyone possibly understand all this in such a short period and by myself??
> 
> Granted, I feel scammed and taken advantage of like so many of you.  It is certainly not a good feeling.  I feel sick to my stomach as I keep researching all the scams here.  I found TUG after my 5 day rescindence  period.  I want out of my contract.  I left a message with the resort today and am waiting for a call back.  Do I have any recourse?  Can I get my deposit back?  I haven't started the monthly payments yet and don't want to pay them.
> 
> Can anyone help me get out of a contract that went wrong?  I am using this forum for support and advice.  I left the sales people bully me and I have learned a life lesson.
> 
> Why did I let the pressure get the best of me?  When something sounds too good to be true, this should have been a BIG red flag.
> 
> If someone could please give me some sound advise on how to end this contract or fight it, I would greatly appreciate your help.   Sick to my stomach, in California....



Thanks to all those who provided feedback and encouragement, my issue has been resolved.  You guys are awesome!!  I am in current negotiations with The Vida Vacation Club and Grand Mayan. I would like to thank Eridany James and Karen Rose for providing excellent customer service. They have worked with me in a professional and honest manner and I would like to retract my earlier post. Thank you.     

Julie M.


----------



## am1

Without reading everything.  You should leave what you wrote for others to see before they make the same mistake.  They may not have the same ending that you have.


----------



## Passepartout

am1 said:


> Without reading everything.  You should leave what you wrote for others to see before they make the same mistake.  They may not have the same ending that you have.



The retraction MAY be a condition of the amicable resolution.


----------



## red fuji

What I find more ironic is that some companies want to rob you first before helping you get your money back from dishonest Timeshare Resorts.
companies like timesharescam.com who want to charge you over 35% of amount you are getting back from Timeshare resorts-even during the 5 day rescind period.
they are bunch of smooth crooks.


----------



## Passepartout

red fuji, did you actually rescind from that 'vacation club' you were going to send the rescission fax to back in Sept of 2013? You haven't been back until today with a progress report.

Did you pay someone to 'get you out' of your timeshare? Or did you buy a 'real' timeshare after rescinding from the vacation club.

Jim


----------



## am1

Passepartout said:


> The retraction MAY be a condition of the amicable resolution.



Money talks I guess.  The resort will just move on to someone else.


----------



## jasm

Does it help at all to not take any credit cards with you when attending a presentation to prevent you from putting money down while under pressure?


----------



## DeniseM

jasm said:


> Does it help at all to not take any credit cards with you when attending a presentation to prevent you from putting money down while under pressure?



If you don't trust yourself, why go at all?  In fact, why waste your precious vacation time on this in the first place?


----------



## Passepartout

I don't think you can go to a presentation without a credit card. Or without your spouse, if married.


----------



## LannyPC

jasm said:


> Does it help at all to not take any credit cards with you when attending a presentation to prevent you from putting money down while under pressure?



I'll echo Denise's comments about why waste your vacations time being subjected to a 5-hour interrogation session.  But, if you must...  usually there is a requirement to put a deposit down on your valid credit card (around $30) to make sure you show up for the presentation.  That also gives the sales people the ammo that they need knowing that you do indeed have a valid credit card and they have the info (number and expiry date).  Then, you cannot use the excuse that you do not have a valid credit card.

The other sneaky thing that they might do is check what kind of card it is.  Some credit cards are only issued to people who earn above a certain income level.  If you have one of those high-end cards, they just might use that against you if you try the "We can't afford it" excuse (not that you need any excuse to say "No", that is your right).


----------



## Karen G

LannyPC said:


> usually there is a requirement to put a deposit down on your valid credit card (around $30) to make sure you show up for the presentation.


That's a new twist I haven't heard of before. We've always been asked to give the outside personal contact (OPC) $20 USD as a deposit to be sure we show up. It is refunded after the presentation.

I wouldn't feel comfortable at all giving the OPC my credit card number. They are usually a person who confronts you at the resort or on the street trying to get you to go to a presentation. It seems kind of crazy to give them a credit card number in that setting.


----------



## Passepartout

I wouldn't give the Body Snatcher ANYTHING. Occasionally I've had them offer a ride to a presentation, which I wouldn't accept either. I want to be able to leave on MY schedule, not theirs. 'Course it's been several years since I felt the goodies were worth my time.

Jim


----------



## LannyPC

Karen G said:


> That's a new twist I haven't heard of before. We've always been asked to give the outside personal contact (OPC) $20 USD as a deposit to be sure we show up. It is refunded after the presentation.



That actually happened to us at the last presentation we attended (although not in Mexico).  We were checking in and were asked if we would like [insert gift here].  Long story short, at the front desk, they charged us $30 on our credit card but was refunded to us in cash at the conclusion of the presentation.


----------



## Karen G

LannyPC said:


> That actually happened to us at the last presentation we attended (although not in Mexico).  We were checking in and were asked if we would like [insert gift here].  Long story short, at the front desk, they charged us $30 on our credit card but was refunded to us in cash at the conclusion of the presentation.


 Interesting--if the front desk did the charging on the card that wouldn't be as bad as if someone on the street was requesting it.


----------



## Passepartout

LannyPC said:


> Long story short, at the front desk, they charged us $30 on our credit card but was refunded to us in cash at the conclusion of the presentation.



I can see a resort doing this just to check that the card is active and valid. Especially if it's a different card than the one used for incidentals during the TS stay. it isn't going to make me go to a presentation any more than without checking.

Still, common sense would tell a reasonable person to NEVER give a credit card to a body snatcher at the airport or on the street.


----------



## Arob89

*help*

Hi ,

I'm a lucky fellow who recently married into a Club Sunset timeshare.

 My wife and her mother got sucked into the whole sales pitch and pressure meeting in Sept of 2013 while on a trip to Cancun. They unfortunately ended up signing the contract, obviously not really understanding what they were getting into. From what I've read from other posts it all sounds the same; hi pressure sales, making it seem like an investment, free gifts, and taking advantage of people with English as a second language.

Anyway I didn't really understand how serious these contracts were and how hard they are to get out of until after we got married in June 2014. Needless to say I'm scrambling to find a way to end it since it seems like nothing but a money pit. About $6000 has been paid to them already and there's still another $7000 to go, plus the MFs.

I've contacted the developer and asked to cancel the contract, and they want a letter sent stating exactly why we want to cancel. Does anyone have some suggestions as to what I should say in that letter? I feel like if I say the wrong thing they wont let me cancel.

At this point all I want is it to end, I don't even care about the money already wasted.

Thanks
-Alex


----------



## Passepartout

Hi Alex. 
Unfortunately today, timeshares- especially Mexican timeshares- are more liability than asset. You can't even give them away if they ARE paid for, and often have to sweeten the pot by paying transfers and all kinds of things. 

First, DO NOT fall for anyone's 'We can get you out of your timeshare' deal. NEVER send ANY money for ANY reason to ANYONE who says they can sell your timeshare.

OK, now the letter. Since there is no ownership, they can't foreclose. Mexican timeshares are 'Right to Use'. Not deeded. So you might consider just telling them you won't pay them another nickel. if they are automatically charging a credit card or bank account, change them. You will get calls from collectors, and possibly your (or wife/MIL)'s credit rating might take a hit. It's possible though that after they decide you won't pay any more they'll sell your contract to a collector, and you will have to negotiate with that outfit.

Frankly, I don't know what the technicalities are with a Mexican outfit trying to collect from a Canadian resident. It might be that just a hardship letter, (Mom's dying, the dog needs surgery, I lost my job at the buggy whip company and we are on welfare and will never take another vacation) will get the job done.

The alternative might be to pay it off and enjoy a lifetime of great vacations. In surveys we've done here in TUG, over half of TUGgers bought their first timeshare from the developer. And over 2/3 are happy with their first timeshare and in the end are happy they bought it. 

You'll note that the name of TUG is Timeshare *USER'S* group, not 'How to get out of your timeshare group.'

Good Luck, Best Wishes and Welcome to TUG. And Congratulations on the marriage. 

Jim


----------



## Boonie

Passepartout said:


> I don't think you can go to a presentation without a credit card. Or without your spouse, if married.



So if your are married both have to attend (I've read this before along with a minimum income requirement) but both MUST also agree and sign?   I told my husband yesterday he just needs to be the bad guy and say NO!


----------



## LannyPC

Boonie said:


> So if your are married both have to attend (I've read this before along with a minimum income requirement) but both MUST also agree and sign?   I told my husband yesterday he just needs to be the bad guy and say NO!


There are a couple of reasons why they require that you attend with your spouse or significant other.  One is that, if you are attending alone, you can use the excuse "I'll have to talk it over with my spouse/significant other."  If he or she attends with you, you won't have that excuse.

The other is that they like to play psychological games including turning one spouse/significant other against each other.  So when point out that your husband "just needs to be the bad guy and say NO", they will try to use that against you (or him) by making him look like the bad guy for denying you this "wonderful opportunity".


----------



## Tbone47

*Rescinded my Vidanta - Now What*

I have recently requested that my contract be rescinded about two days into the contract so I believe that I can get out of it. A couple of days later I received an email from a contract person who want to see how they can convince me to keep my contract.  Can anybody lend some advice on how I could possibly negotiate some addendums to the deal to make is really worth keeping?  

Last week I returned from a visit to Mayan Palace NV. Strangely I said that I would avoid the sales presentation but some how I got sweet talked into going and guess what? I purchased a 1BR studio. It was kind of affordable, but after thinking about the inconsistencies in the presentation and the comments. I'm still not sure about deal and if it has stuff that I really didn't consider as possible negative aspect of a contract.

One week is on a 10 year trust that is renewable 
One week is 100 year trust renewable with 3xMF
Another week (any non vida)
Membership in Ambassador program

I am new to the site, but have learned a lot in the last couple of days after rescinding my contract with Vidanta. I have had a timeshare in Cancun and have learned to live with the deal I made, but that's almost all done.  My sales experience with Vida was very easy and not really high pressure, but some how I do feel like I was buttered up a bit.  There were some inconsistencies, but I would not call the outright lies, but you have to really be sharp and careful.  

One of my concerns is how they offered to buy out my old timeshare contract for $17K and said I can keep my unused vacations. When I asked how they can do this they said that the writeoff helps them. But later I found that my contract at the old timeshare was actually expired. So why did they give me $17K off the purchase price? How could they buy out a contract that was expired?  I don't think they just said that they were going to buy out the contract, but just gave me false discount to give me the perception that my old time share contract was worth anything.

So I have read my  contract and have some questions that I will get answered from contract services, but if there is a reason to get out of my contract I will.  If there is a reason to keep it and negotiate some extras or changes to make the deal better. I'll keep it.

Does anybody have any suggestions or advice on what to do?


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## Passepartout

Just rescind. Don't try to figure out why any Mexican TS outfit does anything. Too many people have been promised that they would get $XXXX.XX only to find out long after the rescission period that they still owned it as well as the 'new' one. Those sales people will say absolutely anything to make the sale. Like your first sentence: "What can they promise that will make you change your mind."

Rescind. Buy resale, if you want a Mexican TS. Better still, rent. Mexican TSs rent for less than the underlying MF, so why not?

Send it Certified, w/return receipt. 

We wish you well.

Jim


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## Karen G

Tbone47 said:


> Does anybody have any suggestions or advice on what to do?


Rescind while you still have the opportunity. Once the rescission period has passed, you won't have this chance again.

If you have any questions at all on what you bought, rescind and do some more research. The deal will always be there no matter what the salesman wants you to believe.

They have already demonstrated they aren't playing straight with you with their offer to buy your old timeshare which was expired.  Of course they were inflating the price to make you think you were getting a bargain.  What else are they misleading you about?

Do yourself a big favor and get out while you can.


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## Tbone47

I haven't changed my mind. I rescinded well within the five day period, but I didn't get a response till it past. They want to talk to me on the phone and will, but i have made no mention of reason for rescinding or desire to negotiate.

I am just concerned they might look for a reason to stall refunding my money. I will be patient and courteous and hope they don't violate the contract.

From what I have read online, they havent reniged on a fair recscind within the five day period. 

Let't us see. I'll keep you posted.


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## Karen G

Tbone47 said:


> I haven't changed my mind. I rescinded well within the five day period, but I didn't get a response till it past. They want to talk to me on the phone and will, but i have made no mention of reason for rescinding or desire to negotiate.


Nothing good will come from any further conversations with the sales staff. They will try their hardest to get you to change your mind. Don't talk to them. The only date that matters is the date you sent your rescission, not when they got it. Save yourself more intimidation and hassle by waiting quietly for your refund.


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## behopeful

I need to rescind urgently ...who do I call ? There is too much info to read and I really need to get this done .


Thank you


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## Karen G

behopeful said:


> I need to rescind urgently ...who do I call ? There is too much info to read and I really need to get this done .
> 
> 
> Thank you


What did you buy?

Rescission is done in writing by mail usually. Calling doesn't get it done. Write a letter simply stating that you and whoever else  may have signed the purchase contract wish to exercise  your right of rescission. Send it by certified mail so that you have a receipt from the post office showing the date you mailed it. That is the critical part. You have five business days to rescind in Mexico.


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## Karen G

You were given excellent advice in  this thread in post #6 from passepartout. Follow it!


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## behopeful

Thank you ...for all the help . I have started the procedure. if there are people in this world who are there to rip off the hard earned money , there are people like you who save them from the bad too ...


keep up the good work !


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## Karen G

behopeful said:


> Thank you ...for all the help . I have started the procedure. if there are people in this world who are there to rip off the hard earned money , there are people like you who save them from the bad too ...
> 
> 
> keep up the good work !


thanks! Glad you found us in time. Let us know what happens.


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## Karen G

parkbr said:


> Just want to ask...
> Is there any form for cancellation?
> Or a letter will do?


Just a simple letter something like this:

We are rescinding our contract dated ___________.

Be sure everyone who signed the contract signs the rescission letter.  You could even include a copy of the page of the contract that you signed.

Just do it!


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## Passepartout

Never mind.


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## parkbr

*Regarding 14 day Credit Card Cancellation Policy*

Hello,

First of all, I thank everyone here who helped me throughout the process. 

I was able to rescind after 5 day cooling period with help of the resort and the credit card company. We sent rescission letter on the 7th business day and the resort tried to downgrade our membership twice (2nd time with a better offer) before they offered the cancellation with some fees for an upgrade, which we took.

The whole process took about a month, and I have learnt a lot and I would like to share that with others. 

Credit card (Mastercard and VISA) does have 14 day cancellation policy. 
This rule, I was told by CC company, is something that resorts agreed when they become a merchant of the credit card company and clearly states under their chargeback guide. There is very slim way out for the merchant if the cardholder cancels within 14 days (this is calendar days) and followed all the process and the merchant cannot provide otherwise. So most of the resorts are very well aware of this policy. One of the user told me that "based solely on your credit card agreement, you unilaterally decided to cancel", this is NOT the case. This is the agreement between the merchant and the credit card company and I, as a card holder, was exercising the options that I have. This rule is international rule that applies regardless of the location. From what we have researched, chargeback hurts merchants reputation and even if they win the chargeback, they have to pay certain amount. If they have too many chargebacks, they might lose a deal with creditcard company. However, keep in mind that chargeback does not 100% guarantee your money back and takes about 2-3 months and credit card chargeback dispute do not break the contract legally. So that is the tricky part. 

So in order to be out of the contract legally, you need to have a cancellation/settlement document signed by both parties. (I am not sure if you rescind within 5 days. I believe you're safe in that case.)

We have consulted the lawyer anyways and was told that it is very unlikely that they will chase after us and sue us so that we are tied to the contract even if we go through chargeback method. That is because it is not that much of money and hiring a lawyer would cost more money. He said, most likely, they'd rather spend time with a new couple who is willing to sign up for their membership, than deal with us. lol. 

However, we wanted to be legally out and be safe. So we chose to pay, even though we felt the upgrade was over-priced. We will consider that as a life-time lesson fee. 

I guess we were very lucky in a sense that the resort was helpful and willing to cancel. I am thinking it maybe because of the Credit Card policy that they are well aware of, or simply because they are nice. We'd like to believe that it is both. 

Anyways, thank you and good luck to everyone.


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## Karen G

parkbr said:


> Hello,
> 
> First of all, I thank everyone here who helped me throughout the process.
> 
> I was able to rescind after 5 day cooling period with help of the resort and the credit card company. We sent rescission letter on the 7th business day and the resort tried to downgrade our membership twice (2nd time with a better offer) before they offered the cancellation with some fees for an upgrade, which we took.
> 
> The whole process took about a month, and I have learnt a lot and I would like to share that with others.
> 
> Credit card (Mastercard and VISA) does have 14 day cancellation policy.
> This rule, I was told by CC company, is something that resorts agreed when they become a merchant of the credit card.


 Thanks so much for sharing your experience. So glad you were able to rescind your contract.


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## kottonmindless

Does the 5 days cancellation period also work for contract upgrade for additional points?


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## Passepartout

kottonmindless said:


> Does the 5 days cancellation period also work for contract upgrade for additional points?



Probably. It should apply to ALL timeshare purchase contracts. What does it say in your contract? Have you contacted Profeco? What resort? Does it include 'trading in' other timeshare ownership(s) you own?

You ask a question that is far too simple.

Jim


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## FloridaGuy

Hello,  I cancelled within 2 days, however they say I purchased 5000 bonus points and massages as "gifts" .  The 5000 points are listed in the cancelled contract, the massages are not.  They also did not include the this wavier in my paperwork, and have requested the document.  I think they purposely left it out of my paperwork.  A profeco complaint has been filed, and my credit card company has it in dispute. As far as I know Article 56 says cancel "with NO Liability, whatsover...Is this correct?


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## Karen G

FloridaGuy said:


> As far as I know Article 56 says cancel "with NO Liability, whatsover...Is this correct?


Rescission means that the contract is cancelled & both parties are put back in the same position as they were before the contract was made.  So you should get all your money back with no further liability. Were the massages a gift you were offered to entice you to attend the sales presentation? If so you shouldn't have to pay for them as you fulfilled your obligation by sitting through the presentation.


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## FloridaGuy

No, the massages were extra...the gift offered for the presentation was a dinner on the beach, which we received.  They say we signed a separate paper for the 5000 points and massages, if we cancelled, sorta like a penalty agreement.  It was the only paper they did NOT make a copy of for us..I can find the 5000 bonus points in the contract but not the massages.    I read on the board that the credit card company has a 14 day cancel period and this is international too?  The CC company is currently working on my dispute and has the same package I sent Profeco.  I cancelled in 2 days so does the CC policy apply too?  Thank you so much for your info!


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## Karen G

Let us know what happens. Hopefully between Profeco & your credit card you'll be fine & you'll get your money back. Did you already receive the massages? If they referred to them as being a gift what are they charging you for?


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## FloridaGuy

Excactly Karen,  They say they pay for these gifts and need to be reimbursed.  I have stopped talking to the resort salespeople, its a broken record..I just have to drive home the NO liability whatsoever phrase in article 56..this could be awhile...


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## tschwa2

Did you actually receive the messages or do you just have a voucher for them?  My understanding is any gift or upgrade that you receive in relation to the purchase that you can't (because you used it) or won't return- let's say you are in a 1 br but as soon as you purchase they upgrade you to the 3 br penthouse suite, they can ask for reimbursement for the days you actually stayed in the upgraded room.  Similarly if you are given an IPad as a gift with purchase (not gift for attending presentation) then they can charge you for it if you do not return it.  So if you received a $300 spa package and used it before you rescinded, I think you can be held responsible for that.


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## FloridaGuy

We used 2 massages and I understand and will be responsible, however they are trying to say I need to purchase the 5000 bonus points..The 5000 bonus points are listed in the contract too. No one has used 5000 points.


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## dioxide45

If the 5000 points are in the contract, they are subject to rescission. Ask them to provide this additional piece of paper they say they have regarding the 5000 points? I suspect they won't have it. What property was this?


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## FloridaGuy

I called their main office and requested the paper, the guy said 2 days for my email of all documents.  The vacation club was Fiesta American Vacation Club.  It was located at Live Aqua Cancun.  I love the resort, just sorry I got involved with this Club.


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## FloridaGuy

Well, just to follow on the board, did not send me this piece of paper we signed about the 5000 points...shocker...they only sent the first pages of the contract.  I asked again..will see what they do.  They call it a "activation" letter, I call it a penalty for cancelling waiver.  I had read that this is illegal? I remember this piece of paper but they intentionally left it out of my package?  Perhaps to use against me?


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## dioxide45

Tell them that you want to cancel that additional "contract" you signed. Same rules should apply.


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## FloridaGuy

I will remind them of that, Does anyone know how the credit card handles the dispute?  I sent them the entire Profeco package, but when I call their representative  they won't give me the direct contact to the dispute person(s) handling the claim.  They told me to wait until the 15 day refund period ( knowing nothing was gonna happen) expired before I disputed it and said the amount will be held in abeyance. They did say that timeshare is handled "differently" than a normal dispute.  It seems that, in general, they have no idea of the 5 day law in mexico or the way these are handled based on past disputes.


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## geist1223

Concerning cancelling within 5 Business days in Mexico. Saturday counts as a Business day. Sunday is not a business day. We found this out several years ago when we got help from some locals in Cabo in cancelling a timeshare purchase from Grand Mayan. They also helped us find a Notary to have our signatures Notarized. Notary not required but made it more business like and professional.


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## FloridaGuy

I just got the cancellation email and refund slip from FAVC yesterday.  Thank you for the advice posted on this board.  Profeco is a must!  They tried to use the "gift" form but you never get a copy of that in your package.  When I called the Orlando office I simply told him I thought this form was illegal and requested it to be presented to me.  One week later I get the cancellation confirmation and refund receipt.   I presented a cancellation letter in person with a Hotel Staff witness AND mailed a copy via signature receipt to the address listed in the contract.  I think doing both helped make it a good slam dunk.  Feb 14th was cancellation date, got the cancellation 4/10, waiting for the deposit.   Profeco has yet to give me a date, but I will contact them to drop complaint after I see deposit.  BTW...the club emailed Profeco the cancellation email and receipt!   Thank all of you


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## Karen G

FloridaGuy said:


> I just got the cancellation email and refund slip from FAVC yesterday.  Thank you for the advice posted on this board.  Profeco is a must!  They tried to use the "gift" form but you never get a copy of that in your package.  When I called the Orlando office I simply told him I thought this form was illegal and requested it to be presented to me.  One week later I get the cancellation confirmation and refund receipt.   I presented a cancellation letter in person with a Hotel Staff witness AND mailed a copy via signature receipt to the address listed in the contract.  I think doing both helped make it a good slam dunk.  Feb 14th was cancellation date, got the cancellation 4/10, waiting for the deposit.   Profeco has yet to give me a date, but I will contact them to drop complaint after I see deposit.  BTW...the club emailed Profeco the cancellation email and receipt!   Thank all of you


Thanks so much for letting us know! So happy for you!


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## Cbagmon

Hi all I need help with rescinding our Sirenis Premium Travellers membership. Me and my husband travelled to mexico for the first time for our anniversary just last week. Long story short we were sucked into buying into a Bronze Package travel membership (trial) on aug 18th,2017 and made a dp. I guess we were on a vacation high that day and forgot to THINK!!!  The next day we realized we made a mistake and attempted to cancel as we knew we had 5 business days under PROFECO. However when we met with Sirenis travellers personell she basically told us we signed a contract waiving our right to cancel. We asked for a copy of this waiver but she adamantly refused. She also told us their "director" isnt onsite and she couldnt do anything more. We were leaving that same day too and didnt have time to resolve the matter personally so we gave her a written rescission letter signed and dated. We also emailed our cancellation request to their member care executive over the weekend- thankfully, he emailed us back today Aug 21 and acknowledged receipt of the request and said he will let staff know of our request and update us via email. What more can we do at this point??? Do we have a chance at cancellation and/or refund of dp ($2450 CAD)...... thanks in advance!!


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## LannyPC

First of all (and this is just a nitpicking of terms), it's not PROFECO that gives you five days to rescind.  That is your right under Mexican Law.

As for your rescission request, they might honour it. It doesn't hurt to try.  Hopefully they will follow through and update you (even though they are not required to do so) and even more hopefully, they will rescind your purchase.

Whether they do or do not, don't go seeking out the "help" of these shady companies that promise to cancel your mortgage, end your timeshare agreement, sue the sales person, etc., because they will charge you a hefty fee and might not even accomplish what they promised.  Also, if they do not honour it, then you have a hefty decision to make.  Do you pay off the mortgage and use what you have?  Or do you default, cut your losses, and let them keep the $2450?  

I don't know how much you have left to pay after the $2450 but, whatever it is, that is probably way more than what this package you are buying is worth.  IOW, do you pay, say $5000, to keep a product that is worth about $1000?


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## Karen G

Cbagmon said:


> . . . she basically told us we signed a contract waiving our right to cancel. We asked for a copy of this waiver but she adamantly refused.



The lady was trying to mislead you as you have five days according to Mexican law in which to rescind your purchase, and you did so by notifying them by letter and email. You are entitled to a refund.  Notify your credit card provider of your rescission and dispute any charges.

Please look at the first post in this long, long thread about Profeco.  Here is a quote from their website:
"By law, you have five business days to cancel the contract after you have signed it. If you decide to cancel the purchase within this period, notify the developer by email and certified mail. Keep the receipt as evidence you cancelled on time.

You should receive a prompt refund of all the money you have paid, without any cancelling penalties, within fifteen business days."

*If the developer refuses to do so or agruments you resigned to this rigth when signing the contract, you may contact extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx. To submit a formal complaint, you must send the following paperwork: a brief description of the problem, copy of the contract and of your ID. (This is a direct copy of the Profeco statement complete with mispelled words, but the meaning is clear.)*


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## Paul E Morgan

Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> I always tell people to read their contract very carefully.  Look for "General Provisions" or "Notifications".  For all timeshare sales operations, the customer has the right to send a letter REGISTERED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED within 5 business days to the address specified in the contract OR to return to the timeshare sales office and request cancellation.  I always advise people to select the registered mail option, as the timeshare sales office have trained staff to salvage the sale (they will try to sell you a lesser product at a reduced price).  If you reside in the United States or Canada, you CAN send the letter registered mail.  It is the date the letter is sent, not the date the letter is delivered to the timeshare sales office that counts.  You can track your registered letter with the United States or Canadian postal service.  However, once the letter is transferred from the US to Mexican postal system, it is not currently traceable on-line.  It takes up to 5 weeks for the Mexican postal officials to deliver the letter to the recipient.  You will eventually receive your return receipt.  Your letter should: (1) be dated; (2) contain the name and address of the timeshare sales office; (3) contain the contract number; and (4) state that you are exercising your right to cancel the contract per PROFECO.  If you return to the sales office, they will request a reason for the cancellation -- do not provide a reason.  PROFECO does not require timeshare purchasers to provide a reason for cancellation.  If you provide a reason, the timeshare sales personnel already has a pre-prepared script to counter your statement(s).  Do not return home and email the timeshare sales office to cancel your contract, UNLESS that method of cancellation is specifically permitted per the contract.  NEVER telephone the timeshare sales office to cancel a contract.  You must have proof of delivery of your notification of cancellation.
> 
> 
> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.
> 
> *SEE POST #262 IN THIS THREAD FOR UPDATED INFORMATION*
> 
> The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.
> 
> Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
> http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/
> TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.





Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> 
> 
> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.
> 
> *SEE POST #262 IN THIS THREAD FOR UPDATED INFORMATION*
> 
> The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.
> 
> Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
> http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/
> TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.


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## collegeclassroom

hellolani said:


> *clause 6*
> 
> My contract's clause 6 only has 3 subpoints to it, matching letters B, C and D on the contract above.  The points corresponding to letters A and E are not on my copy.  No gag order.
> 
> Anyone who wants a copy for comparison, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you, or alternatively, anyone who is willing to get it uploaded to photobucket or some other image hosting site and link it in here, please let me know if you are able to help by PM and I'll send it to you.
> *****************************************************
> 
> Please send me a copy of letter.  Thank you
> collegeclassroom@yahoo.com


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## Hankmoon

Has anyone had trouble with Occidental Vacation Club (now owned by the Barcelo Group) not honoring the terms of their written contract? We recently bought a First Club 2 bedroom. I just booked our first owner's week with them for 2018 and they are not honoring the terms of my contract. I am having a terrible time with them now to get them to honor our contract terms. I am thinking maybe I should cancel my contract. I have since discovered the sales people broke many Mexican laws during the sales process too. I won't go into that here since my complaint is that I have an agreement IN WRITING and the company is not honoring it.


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## Karen G

Hankmoon said:


> Has anyone had trouble with Occidental Vacation Club (now owned by the Barcelo Group) not honoring the terms of their written contract? We recently bought a First Club 2 bedroom. I just booked our first owner's week with them for 2018 and they are not honoring the terms of my contract. I am having a terrible time with them now to get them to honor our contract terms. I am thinking maybe I should cancel my contract. I have since discovered the sales people broke many Mexican laws during the sales process too. I won't go into that here since my complaint is that I have an agreement IN WRITING and the company is not honoring it.


If they aren't honoring the terms of your contract, I think that would be a perfectly good reason to contact Profeco to see if they can do anything to help you.


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## rejea faille

i just trade 2 timeshares for one, one grupo vidanta (grand luxe loft) and one emerald bay pueblo bonito(one studio) for elite premier contract at the marina hotel in mazatlan for 35000$ full payable in one week
but for the time share i own, il will get 85000$  but only in 60 days, i have everything write  in the contract, they will honor their contract ?or it,s a scam,after they will get the  full 35000$,i will never get my 85000$ and i will not hear about them anymore ?


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## Karen G

rejea faille said:


> i just trade 2 timeshares for one, one grupo vidanta (grand luxe loft) and one emerald bay pueblo bonito(one studio) for elite premier contract at the marina hotel in mazatlan for 35000$ full payable in one week
> but for the time share i own, il will get 85000$  but only in 60 days, i have everything write  in the contract, they will honor their contract ?or it,s a scam,after they will get the  full 35000$,i will never get my 85000$ and i will not hear about them anymore ?


No, you won't get $85,000 for the timeshares you traded in. Most likely, according to reports of others who've traded in their timeshares in Mexico, they'll offer you the "opportunity" to take back your timeshares for even more money.

If you are within your five-day rescission period, you'd be wise to rescind your purchase and not waste $35,000.


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## rejea faille

thank's karen for  your information
i just send one email to them to concel, i will send them a registered letter on january 2 because it's Holiday dec 30 and 31st jan 1st
may be it's possible to you to tell me about the 5 business day
i sign the contract dec 24th, but some attendum dec 26, today it's the 30th, look like just 3 busibess day between, if it's possible i would like to get confirmation from you mrs karen
thank's a lot for your help  Rejean xx


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## Karen G

rejea faille said:


> thank's karen for  your information
> i just send one email to them to concel, i will send them a registered letter on january 2 because it's Holiday dec 30 and 31st jan 1st
> may be it's possible to you to tell me about the 5 business day
> i sign the contract dec 24th, but some attendum dec 26, today it's the 30th, look like just 3 busibess day between, if it's possible i would like to get confirmation from you mrs karen
> thank's a lot for your help  Rejean xx


I believe that Sundays, Christmas Day, and New Years Day wouldn't count against the five days. It looks to me like you satisfied the deadline for rescission when you sent your email. But, I'm not a lawyer and that's just my opinion. You can also mention in
your letter that you are also notifying the Mexican consumer protection agency, PROFECO, of your intent to rescind. Here is what their website says:

"By law, you have five business days to cancel the contract after you have signed it. If you decide to cancel the purchase within this period, notify the developer by email and certified mail. Keep the receipt as evidence you cancelled on time.

You should receive a prompt refund of all the money you have paid, without any cancelling penalties, within fifteen business days.

If the developer refuses to do so or agruments you resigned to this rigth when signing the contract, you may contact *extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx*. To submit a formal complaint, you must send the following paperwork: a brief description of the problem, copy of the contract and of your ID."

(Note: the misspellings in that last paragraph are exactly what appears on the Profeco website.)

Also, assuming you paid anything by credit card, you could notify your credit card company that you've rescinded your purchase. After you receive your refund, you could cancel the card to avoid any future charges to it.


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## rejea faille

thANK'S MRS KAREN


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## Jon duda

Karen G said:


> If they aren't honoring the terms of your contract, I think that would be a perfectly good reason to contact Profeco to see if they can do anything to help you.




I need help! Please. I signed up for this stupid thing almost two yeas ago. I don’t want my money back but I still owe over $4,000.00.... I tried to cancel and they said I need to pay the $4,000.00 in full or they will send collections after me and damage my credit... are these just threats? If I just cancel my card can they really come after me? Leans on my home... business... credit... I’m horrified....

PLEASE HELP


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## Karen G

Jon duda said:


> I need help! Please. I signed up for this stupid thing almost two yeas ago. I don’t want my money back but I still owe over $4,000.00.... I tried to cancel and they said I need to pay the $4,000.00 in full or they will send collections after me and damage my credit... are these just threats? If I just cancel my card can they really come after me? Leans on my home... business... credit... I’m horrified....
> 
> PLEASE HELP


See this thread discussing similar situations:  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...lting-on-a-mexican-timeshare-purchase.273714/


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## Passepartout

Jon duda said:


> I need help! Please. I signed up for this stupid thing almost two yeas ago. I don’t want my money back but I still owe over $4,000.00.... I tried to cancel and they said I need to pay the $4,000.00 in full or they will send collections after me and damage my credit... are these just threats? If I just cancel my card can they really come after me? Leans on my home... business... credit... I’m horrified....
> 
> PLEASE HELP


I don't know how much help we can be, because you didn't show up here 'almost two years ago', and back then we could have instructed you on how to rescind and this never would have gotten this far. But now. OK, we don't think that Mexican timeshare outfits will REALLY ding your credit, and honestly, if a bad report is filed at TransUnion or another reporting agency, you are allowed to write a rebuttal. I can't imagine an American creditor who would hold defaulting on a Mexican timeshare against you. In fact freeing up that much of your income may well improve your credit score.

I would default. Cancel whatever account they are debiting your payment from and don't look back. You won't get any of what you've paid back, and you obviously won't be welcome back at the same resort, but it won't stop you from travel to Mexico ant time you wish.

Good Luck. I wish we'd met 2 years ago.

Jim


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## Karen G

This article may be of interest if someone has paid the deposit or down payment for their timeshare with a Visa credit card:  https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTop...card-Cabo_San_Lucas_Los_Cabos_Baja_Calif.html


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## Rob Guty

keday said:


> *Help!*
> 
> I think it is too late, but we purchased a Royal Elite membership at Sandos Playacar. (Playa Del Carmen)  It has been 16 days so our right to rescind is gone but do we have any other options to get out of this?  We made a 10% deposit and agreed to send the rest when we got our own funding. Unfortunately I found this site AFTER our mistake.  Also, I was wondering why I could not find this resort anywhere on the website... more concerning information.



How did you make out ? we are very similar to you and are almost 20 days from the purchase date. We wont be paying the remainder but we are speaking with M/C regarding our deposit. Im not worried about threat and any actions. I just would like my deposit back.....


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## Karen G

Rob Guty said:


> How did you make out ? we are very similar to you and are almost 20 days from the purchase date. We wont be paying the remainder but we are speaking with M/C regarding our deposit. Im not worried about threat and any actions. I just would like my deposit back.....


The person whose post you quoted has not been back to TUG since May, 2009.


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## Dariah

So we signed up for an OCV timeshare when in Cozumel. They were actually pretty good, I didn't feel pressured, they weren't pushy, my husband just wasn't able to be the strong one and say no when I told him he had to be. We have always wanted a time share. Once I got back to the resort and went over numbers and the contract I realized financially it didn't make sense for us to be locked into this at that price for 25 years. We are also Canadian and while they sold it to us at "par"...the AI fees, maintenance fees are all in US so with my calculations I had to add 35% on top of those to get an average over 25 years.

So we signed up and bought it on a Wednesday...Friday I went to the post office in Cozumel and mailed my cancellation letter, got tracking info etc, it was hand written but should be fine right?

A friend called me chicken for not going right to the office, but I didn't want to face them or try to get them to talk me out of it, plus I felt a little guilty letting them down, and missing out of the commission.

Will I hear from them? Are there any other steps I should take? We returned home yesterday and now I am hoping to find a resale that is much more reasonable priced.


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## Karen G

Dariah said:


> Will I hear from them? Are there any other steps I should take? We returned home yesterday and now I am hoping to find a resale that is much more reasonable priced.


That's great that you exercised your right to rescind within the time limit.  You may or may not hear any more from them. Notify your credit card co. if that's how you paid that you've rescinded.  Now you just patiently wait.


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## Dariah

Karen G said:


> That's great that you exercised your right to rescind within the time limit.  You may or may not hear any more from them. Notify your credit card co. if that's how you paid that you've rescinded.  Now you just patiently wait.



I did call them, she told me that if they didn't follow their contract, which was to have the money returned in 15 working days I should call back.

You know I almost feel guilty, these people were really nice, friendly and I just ripped commissions out of their hands! We are still on the hook for $2900 for all the signing "bonuses" we got but I will take that over the potential $65000 over 25 years.


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## Karen G

Dariah said:


> We are still on the hook for $2900 for all the signing "bonuses" we got but I will take that over the potential $65000 over 25 years.


What does the $2900 include?


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## Dariah

Karen G said:


> What does the $2900 include?


-The 2.5 hour "yacht" ride..not really a yacht but a lovely boat none the less, with two crew, lunch, snorkeling
-First Club fee since they upgraded us from our studio to a 1 bdrm suite - which was a waste, I have 2 kids, we aren't spending time in the tiny members only pool or fancy lounge, we definitely did not fit the demographic in there.
-5 nights upgrade fee from the studio to the 1bdrm..which I feel bad also cause they downgraded ppl from this room checking in same day and put them in the studio room..a family  

I signed something saying I would pay it if we rescinded.

You know I would absolutely love this program just not at this cost. Having bonus weeks you can share was a nice bonus for us who like to travel with family.


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## Travellerneeding help

Karen G said:


> "If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."
> 
> 
> 
> Here is  a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.
> 
> PROFECO INFORMATION:
> 
> The Profeco has a dedicated office to assist non-Mexicans who are already outside the country, the Conciliation a Extranjeros. You can reach them by email at extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx or by phone at one of the following numbers:
> (0155) 52 11 17 23,
> (0155) 56 25 67 00,
> (01 800) 46 88 722
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEE POST #262 IN THIS THREAD FOR UPDATED INFORMATION*
> 
> The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.
> 
> Added 4-24-15:  Watch this tv report about a presentation in Puerto Vallarta:
> http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/11423455-call-kurtis-investigates-mexican-timeshare-nightmare/
> TUG owner Brian Rogers is in this report, too.


I tried calling all of the numbers you’ve written with and without the country code and none of them went through. I’ve also used that email and it’s just sent back, mailer daemon it says. I hope you can help me to contact profeco. I’m already back to the United States and I can’t go back there. Supposed to go to their office yesterday before my flight but it’s a holiday.


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## Karen G

Travellerneeding help said:


> I tried calling all of the numbers you’ve written with and without the country code and none of them went through. I’ve also used that email and it’s just sent back, mailer daemon it says. I hope you can help me to contact profeco. I’m already back to the United States and I can’t go back there. Supposed to go to their office yesterday before my flight but it’s a holiday.


 I just googled and got the following info:

At Profeco we are here to help: call us at 5568-8722 or 01-800-468-8722
PROFECO
From Mexico City: 5568-8722. From the rest of Mexico:
01-800-468-8722. www.profeco.gob.mx 
Site in English: http://www.profeco.gob.mx/english.htm

National Immigration Institute
From Mexico City: 5387-2400. www.inami.gob.mx

Ministry of Tourism
From Mexico City: 5250-0123 or 5250-0151. 
From the rest of Mexico: 01-800-903-9200. From the USA: 1-800-482-9832
www.mexico-travel.com

Let us know if any of those numbers help.


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## cheech

Dariah said:


> -The 2.5 hour "yacht" ride..not really a yacht but a lovely boat none the less, with two crew, lunch, snorkeling
> -First Club fee since they upgraded us from our studio to a 1 bdrm suite - which was a waste, I have 2 kids, we aren't spending time in the tiny members only pool or fancy lounge, we definitely did not fit the demographic in there.
> -5 nights upgrade fee from the studio to the 1bdrm..which I feel bad also cause they downgraded ppl from this room checking in same day and put them in the studio room..a family
> 
> I signed something saying I would pay it if we rescinded.
> 
> You know I would absolutely love this program just not at this cost. Having bonus weeks you can share was a nice bonus for us who like to travel with family.




Dariah, I own 2 agreements with OVC.  1 is a 2 BD/2 BA Grand Level Cozumel home resort, the other is a 1 BD Platinum First Club no blackouts.  Bought them both on ebay for $1 each.  You did the right thing....


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## Dariah

cheech said:


> Dariah, I own 2 agreements with OVC.  1 is a 2 BD/2 BA Grand Level Cozumel home resort, the other is a 1 BD Platinum First Club no blackouts.  Bought them both on ebay for $1 each.  You did the right thing....








Teach me how! I want one.


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## DarlingLove

May I please ask your inputs or knowledge...
We just signed in the Royal Solaris Club Membership last week and were able to email the of our Cancellation within the 5 Day policy.  The issue is that there is a 1-page document that we signed and part of it stating "No Cancellation - We Decline the right of rescission" (before signing the actual agreement/contract).  Do you think this is valid? Can my Visa Card help me & refund my money I deposited once I disputed it?
Is Anyone there has this same issue?


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## easyrider

DarlingLove said:


> May I please ask your inputs or knowledge...
> We just signed in the Royal Solaris Club Membership last week and were able to email the of our Cancellation within the 5 Day policy.  The issue is that there is a 1-page document that we signed and part of it stating "No Cancellation - We Decline the right of rescission" (before signing the actual agreement/contract).  Do you think this is valid? Can my Visa Card help me & refund my money I deposited once I disputed it?
> Is Anyone there has this same issue?



The " no cancellation" document or the "We decline the right of rescission" document is invalid and the resort will not even use these as anything other than an attempt to make you think you can't cancel within the 5 day rescission period. They can't use these documents because it is fraud on their part.

Bill


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## DarlingLove

Ontario said:


> Just want to let you know the updates for my case. We filed a dispute with credit card company and finally we were successfully have our money refunded. Going forward from here, just wonder if we should worry about this Timeshare company from Cancun is going to threathen us with anything.....Any suggestions....would be helpful...



Hello  As I understood, I have the same case as yours... my concern is that 1-page of paper that we signed & part of it is stating "NO Cancellation/We Decline any right of rescission offered on this membership" this is before signing the actual agreement/contract.
may I please ask what documents/paperwork you submitted to the credit card company & what information you provided?  How long does it take for the CC to refund you and are they helpful?


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## DarlingLove

easyrider said:


> The " no cancellation" document or the "We decline the right of rescission" document is invalid and the resort will not even use these as anything other than an attempt to make you think you can't cancel within the 5 day rescission period. They can't use these documents because it is fraud on their part.
> 
> Bill



Thanks so much BILL 
This is really helpful & made my day relax a bit on this matter!


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## Passepartout

DarlingLove said:


> Hello  As I understood, I have the same case as yours... my concern is that 1-page of paper that we signed & part of it is stating "NO Cancellation/We Decline any right of rescission offered on this membership" this is before signing the actual agreement/contract.
> may I please ask what documents/paperwork you submitted to the credit card company & what information you provided?  How long does it take for the CC to refund you and are they helpful?


That person was last on TUG over 5 yars ago. Not likely they'll see your post. Don't sweat the paper that says you are waiving the right of rescission. It's illegal here, as well as in Mexico. Consider copying PROFECO (The Mexican Consumer Affairs Bureau). KarenG's posted their contact info upthread in post #354. You'll probably get your credit card down payment refunded, but it doesn't hurt to challenge the charge and file a complaint with PROFECO.

Good Luck!

Jim


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## DarlingLove

Passepartout said:


> That person was last on TUG over 5 yars ago. Not likely they'll see your post. Don't sweat the paper that says you are waiving the right of rescission. It's illegal here, as well as in Mexico. Consider copying PROFECO (The Mexican Consumer Affairs Bureau). KarenG's posted their contact info upthread in post #354. You'll probably get your credit card down payment refunded, but it doesn't hurt to challenge the charge and file a complaint with PROFECO.
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> Jim



Thanks JIM & Everyone here  I'm super Greatful to find this very helpful forum...!
As of the moment I'm waiting for a response from Club Solaris Cancun as I have not getting any since yesterday... after declining to their offer of cheaper packages when they receive my cancellation email.
In short, no confirmation from them if the resort if they will refund my deposit or I will move forward to Dispute this to my CC as well as filing a complaint with Profeco.
I will make sure to give an update to help other people who will come by here in the future.
If in case you have any more inputs & suggestions, please feel free to let me know!


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## 300Coach

Thanks to TUG we took your advice and will be getting our deposit back and rescinded the contract!! After a few more sales pitches they finally gave up.


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## DarlingLove

Hello TUG & Everyone 
Same with 300Coach - I will finally getting back a Refund of my Deposit, after few more sales pitches that I all declined.
I already signed the cancellation letter they asked me to sign & now waiting the refund in my bank as they say within 15 business days.

I'm really hoping No more victims...!

Super Thanks TUG


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## Passepartout

DarlingLove said:


> Thanks JIM & Everyone here  I'm super Greatful to find this very helpful forum...!


Thanks. We try. You might explore resale- but NOT IN MEXICO! They're super easy to rent at low cost. Love your username too.

Jim


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## macmanrider

Clintshare said:


> *Just say no!*
> 
> I've been to Mexico many times and have been solicited to attend a TS presentation. Many TS sales promos in Mexico offer all sorts of goodies to entice you to the presentation. My experience has been that the initial contact is on the up and up...there is no secret that you will be going to a timeshare sales presentation for a particular resort in exchange for free golf, a bottle of tequila, $100.00 cash US dollars, a nice breakfast ... either all of these or a combination. So go spend the two hours or so, say NO THANK YOU, get your gifts and leave ... The reputable TS outfit will come thru with the gifts as promised. If you are really interested in purchasing a Mex time share.. head to a reseller. See what owners are asking for a resale at the property you are considering. Go to EBAY and track a few sales and see what a resort ends up going for. Good RCI Gold Crown places show up at resellers and on EBAY on a regular basis. And sometimes for 10 to 30 percent of the "developer price" and less! Do a little comparison shopping.
> 
> A nice advantage is that the Mexican resorts are "Right to Use". Your obligation will go away in a fixed amount of years and you won't be trying to dump the property when you tire of it and want to stop paying the annual maintenance fee. Be aware that the financial "hit" you take when buying from the developer may be far worse than the new car purchase, should you want to sell in a week or so.


Our timeshare at costa sur is up in 2030. We paid $500 for 2 weeks we love it. Its old school but has every we need. We bought in 2010.


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## bjones9942

Just another FYI, NOT ALL timeshares in México are right to use.  Lindo Mar in Puerto Vallarta is perpetual.  Always double check!  My two weeks at the Costa de Oro in Mazatlán are right to use, and both expire in 2022.  Like macmanrider, both of my purchases (resale) were worth it to me.  And since moving to Mazatlán, I trade my Costa de Oro through RCI for weeks in Acapulco.  Still happy!


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## GT75

bjones9942 said:


> Just another FYI, NOT ALL timeshares in México are right to use.  Lindo Mar in Puerto Vallarta is perpetual.


Isn’t it still RTU just in perpetual (forever)?


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## Ty1on

GT75 said:


> Isn’t it still RTU just in perpetual (forever)?



Yes.


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## bjones9942

GT75 said:


> Isn’t it still RTU just in perpetual (forever)?





Ty1on said:


> Yes.



Our setup is a little different.  The Lindo Mar is held by a Méxican corporation, which in turn is controlled by an Oregon corporation.  When you purchase a week at the Lindo Mar you become a 'member' of the Oregon entity.  It is correct to say that as a member, we do not own property outright; however the governing documents of the Oregon corporation require that if/when the property in Puerto Vallarta is closed, all assets will be sold and whatever monies remaining after satisfying debtors will be distributed to the members.  I'm pretty sure that would not be the case with a typical RTU setup - with either a fixed term, or perpetual.

My main point is that NOT ALL timeshares in México are the same, even though some long timers here still think they are.  In my case, were I to 'walk away' from my Méxican timeshare in Puerto Vallarta as MANY people advise when someone wants to stop paying their maintenance fees, I would in actuality be 'walking away' from an Oregon entity and would definitely suffer from dings to my credit because of it.


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## pedro47

Karen G, thanks for starting this thread and sharing your knowledge on rescission a Mexican timeshare. Outstanding


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## easyrider

Here is the Profeco claim form. There are two email addresses at the bottom of the form.

Bill



			Correo PROFECO


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