# 7000 pt auction on eBay



## rgong (Feb 16, 2011)

Was just watching an auction on eBay for a 2BR platinum HGVC Las Vegas Strip unit. Winning bid was $4550, for 7000 annual pts. Is this likely to be ROFR'd by Hilton?  Wonder if a tugger won it.


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## siesta (Feb 16, 2011)

I dont think that vegas hgvc has ROFR


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## judgerey (Feb 16, 2011)

Flamingo doesn't have ROFR, but the other Vegas properties do.


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## yumdrey (Feb 16, 2011)

That week was not Flamingo, it was Las Vegas Strip. I believe Hilton will buy back unless seller/closing co. put a fake number on it.


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## jrc (Feb 16, 2011)

I won it. Was thinking it would go higher and at least compete against a Hilton ROFR. The auction company won't let you do a higher price on it, so I'm guessing I'll be doing a little paperwork with the end result being a Hilton buyback.


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## rgong (Feb 17, 2011)

jrc said:


> I won it. Was thinking it would go higher and at least compete against a Hilton ROFR. The auction company won't let you do a higher price on it, so I'm guessing I'll be doing a little paperwork with the end result being a Hilton buyback.



Congrats on winning. I was watching this auction as a learning experience since it was a high-points property with no reserve. The last minute or 2 was entertaining.

One interesting thing in the description is the "original" purchase price is listed at $11,535. That can't be the original developer price for a platinum 2BR unit - so I guess you're at least the 3rd owner (for now) of the property. Hope whoever from Hilton looks at it when it comes across their desk is highly distracted that day


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## jrc (Feb 17, 2011)

Hilton is getting it today to look over. The second buyer got a decent deal at $11,5. I had a $12k contract on Vegas Strip for 7k points ROFR'd a couple weeks ago.

That last minute was entertaining, but I really thought I'd have enough competition to get it closer to $11,500 so Hilton would have something to think about. This appears to be a learning experience of the paperwork variety.

I'll let you know when they take it. At least I'll get a good idea of how long their review process takes.


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## phil1ben (Feb 18, 2011)

On my last two ROFR exercises I received a response from Hilton/Blackstone in 8-10 business days. I have another one out to them and it has been 5 business days but no answer yet.


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## amisco (Feb 18, 2011)

*Hilton on a Buy Back Mission*

Just a bit of speculation and observation.....One major reason for the lack of Platinum 7000+ units for sale on eBay at the prices we've become used to (around $1 per point) last year it an apparent corporate strategy to buy back Platinum properties on the resale market.  The result is an increase in market value of these properties.  Reports of Hilton exercising their ROFR for any 7000+ point properties and even contacting owners of some sites (Flamingo, LV on the Strip) suggests that they are making the bet that now is a good time to build inventory for retail sales.   (It is cheaper to buy than build new product in some locations),  I have heard from credible  sources that Hilton had budgeted a significant amount of  money for this buy back program.  Resale prices are rising because lower priced units are snapped up by Hilton.  

Compare this with the approach by Marriott which has let the market collapse on their product through an ineffectual launch of their "points" system and the recent spin off of their timeshare business from the rest of the Marriott corporation.... you just have to look at the price points for the respective properties to see the results.  Hilton prices are significantly up while Marriott timeshares prices continue to weaken.

Congratulations to everyone who bought Hilton last year when they were not exercising their ROFR.


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## hockeybrain (Feb 19, 2011)

29 million supposedly targeted for buybacks, with 27 million of the dollars for Hawaii properties.


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## CBoy3 (Feb 19, 2011)

I am new to all of this, so please bear with me.  I have read in a few places that Hilton has allocated some amount for the year to be used for buy backs on ROFR.  The numbers that I have seen all are just under $30 million.  Do they ever exceed the amount that they have allocated?  Would you be more likely to get a deal through late in their fiscal year if they have been really active early in the year?  For example, if Hilton thinks that it's a good year for buy backs, and they are really active early on, is it possible that they will loosen up their buy back thresholds later in the year because they have spent so much on them earlier in the year?  Does anyone know when their fiscal year runs?

Thanks


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## jrc (Feb 19, 2011)

Good observation, C. That stands to reason that they would either run out by the end of the fiscal year, or they'd have a monthly budget and let several slip through at the end of each month. There's also the possibility that there aren't more than $29 million in resales on their ROFR properties each year.


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## kool_kat (Feb 19, 2011)

Does anyone know how the buybacks for other point sizes are going?  A lady I work with just told me that she won a 3,500 silver package at SeaWorld for $1.00.  Would Hilton snatch this up because it is basically free or do they only have interest in the platinum packages?


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## yumdrey (Feb 19, 2011)

Hilton started exercising ROFR later part of 2010, I would say October 2010. I bought one 7000 points package in vegas and they didn't exercise ROFR in September.
According to recent tuggers report, Hilton exercise ROFR for almost any size packages. But I would say they buy more for platinum points, of course.


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## chester1122 (Feb 19, 2011)

*HGVC by back*

I have one more week than I need. Would it be worth my while to call Hilton and ask them if they want to buy it back or do you need to have an offer from someone else?





yumdrey said:


> Hilton started exercising ROFR later part of 2010, I would say October 2010. I bought one 7000 points package in vegas and they didn't exercise ROFR in September.
> According to recent tuggers report, Hilton exercise ROFR for almost any size packages. But I would say they buy more for platinum points, of course.


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## yumdrey (Feb 19, 2011)

I believe it has to be your kingsland, not bay club if you want to sell it to Hilton. Bay clab has no ROFR.
You can contact ricoba who sold his week recently to Hilton with no hassle.


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## chester1122 (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks, yes, BC was purchased at a great price.  KL would be the one to go.


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## Tcherniaev (Feb 28, 2011)

*you may be OK*



jrc said:


> I won it. Was thinking it would go higher and at least compete against a Hilton ROFR. The auction company won't let you do a higher price on it, so I'm guessing I'll be doing a little paperwork with the end result being a Hilton buyback.


You may be OK. I passed ROFR for Orlando property 7,000 points for $5,000 couple of months back. And seller was paying all closing costs...


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## jrc (Feb 28, 2011)

No kidding? That's a great deal on a platinum. I'm still waiting to hear back. It's been 10 days since the paperwork was filed. I suspect I'll know by the end of the week. I'd love the points, but in the interim I bought a 4800 platinum at the Flamingo for $3k. I'm still working under the assumption that Hilton will buy it back.


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## jrc (Mar 3, 2011)

Experience with this purchase so far:

Auction won on Feb. 16
ROFR document received for signing on Feb. 18
ROFR document returned to bkassets.com signed: Feb. 18
ROFR document sent by bkassets.com to Hilton: Feb 25
ROFR document returned to bkassets.com due to error by bkassets.com
Corrected ROFR document sent by bkassets.com to Hilton: Mar. 1

Looks like my estimate of being done with the ROFR process this week was waaaay off.


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## yumdrey (Mar 3, 2011)

OH! That's not that bad at all.
I purchased an 7000 points package for las vegas strip on mid sep. 2010.
Got ROFR waiver within 3 weeks and a new deed was recorded on late Oct. Closing co. sent a new deed and transfer fee to Hilton and they had it for 4 weeks. When they finally looked into it, they found a mistake on the deed.
They sent it back to the closing co. on early Dec.
Closing co. had to correct a deed and sent it back to Hilton on mid Dec. 
Hilton got the deed on 12/28 (due to size of mails at that time).
I finally could get an online access to that account on early Feb.


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## Seth Nock (Mar 6, 2011)

bkassets.com is a bankruptcy company.  They don't guarantee clean title.  If it passes right of first refusal,m and it might, as the unit is in bankruptcy, make sure you do a complete title search, as they have not done 1 and will probably not do 1 for you. You can be left with back fees.


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## jrc (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks Seth, I do intend to do a title search as the unit has one year of back fees that have been disclosed.

This is my first and last encounter with a bankruptcy auction.


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## rgong (Mar 22, 2011)

jrc said:


> Thanks Seth, I do intend to do a title search as the unit has one year of back fees that have been disclosed.
> 
> This is my first and last encounter with a bankruptcy auction.



jrc, was curious as to how it's going. saw another HGVC on ebay listed by bkassets, and was staying away from it based on your experience (not to mention it had a lot of back fees already disclosed in the listing).

And speaking of 7000 pt acutions, I watched another one end last night at $5250 (HGVC LV Hilton). At that price I'm guessing Hilton will exercise ROFR?


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## ctyatty (Mar 23, 2011)

*2 camels and a lion*

what would Hilton do with a deal denominated in something other than dollars? Who says you can't trade a TS for some livestock?

Another way: have the current owner transfer to XYZ Trust, then have them sell you the trust and give hilton notice of a new trustee and new address.


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## Talent312 (Mar 24, 2011)

_Not to encourage this line of thought, but..._

1. HGVC would likely value the contract by the cost of replication of the consideration furnished; and
B. Is probably well-aware of the transfer to trust or corporation trick and would disallow it, absent a waiver of ROFR for that transfer.

Speculating on how to commit fraud in a real estate transaction is not helpful.


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## jrc (Mar 24, 2011)

I've contacted bkassets via email and eBay and haven't received a response. It's been several days. No news yet.


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## glypnirsgirl (Mar 24, 2011)

jrc said:


> I've contacted bkassets via email and eBay and haven't received a response. It's been several days. No news yet.



I have dealt with them a couple of times. I have never won an auction, but I have bid on several. They have always taken two or three days before answering.

elaine


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## jrc (Mar 25, 2011)

My experience has not been a short 3 day wait. 

One is free to deal with bankruptcy auctions / BKAssetts or not. I'm just updating on the process. 

In the interim between winning this auction and now, I've won another auction for a 4800 point Flamingo that is also going through the Hilton ROFR (yes, they still send the Flamingo paperwork through) process, and is taking longer than my first purchase did a couple months ago. I believe we're on 14 business days with the Flamingo purchase. My first one took 9 days.

Edit: less than a minute after posting this, I received an email notifying me that my Flamingo paperwork was returned as processed and ownership transfer is taking place. That purchase has now magically leapfrogged my BKAssetts auction purchase.


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## jrc (Mar 28, 2011)

Called BKAssetts today and got ahold of someone. Hilton did buy it back. A return of the deposit and fee is being sent via postal mail.


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## jsb15 (Mar 28, 2011)

It was an interesting thought to transfer it to a trust for ownership and then changing trustees but HGVC would not recognize trust ownership per se.  I tried to get them to allow that with my purchase partly to expand the number of family members that might use open season and to avoid probate issues.  Ultimately the ownership is listed as Mr. Jones, trustee and Mrs. Jones, trustee.  I have yet to try to avoid a guest fee or have another trustee use the timeshare open season but they did receive the trust documents for the transfer and the trust does allow appointment of new trustees.


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## jrc (Mar 29, 2011)

What's the incentive for the seller to go through all this trouble to avoid ROFR? They get paid regardless.


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## rgong (Mar 29, 2011)

jrc said:


> Called BKAssetts today and got ahold of someone. Hilton did buy it back. A return of the deposit and fee is being sent via postal mail.



Thanks for keeping us updated on this process, jrc. 

Saw another HGVC (Las Vegas Hilton, 5000 pts) listed on ebay by bkassets that ended up going for $520 ($2600 in back fees). With such a low winning bid I'm guessing Hilton will buy that one back too, unless they don't want to forfeit the $2600 in back fees the buyer would have to pay. Effectively a $3100 sale for a 2br gold, so Hilton will still probably exercise ROFR...


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## jrc (Apr 2, 2011)

An update on the process:

Auction won on Feb. 16
ROFR document received for signing on Feb. 18
ROFR document returned to bkassets.com signed: Feb. 18
ROFR document sent by bkassets.com to Hilton: Feb 25
ROFR document returned to bkassets.com due to error by bkassets.com
Corrected ROFR document sent by bkassets.com to Hilton: Mar. 1
Contacted bkassets.com regarding ROFR status: Mar. 14
Contacted bkassets.com regarding ROFR status: Mar. 27
Received reply that ROFR had been exercised: Mar. 28
Bkassets.com states that check refunding fees will be mailed: Mar. 28

At this time, nothing has been received. Will alert when the check arrives to give an idea of how long this process can take start to finish.


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## jrc (Apr 11, 2011)

Sent by BKAssetts.com on March 28:

"We will send check to you tomorrow for the full winning bid price, and the document prep fee."

11 postal days later there has been no sign of the check.


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