# ALL INVENTORY GONE!!!



## msyvonne85 (Nov 10, 2017)

Has anyone else noticed this, lots of availability yesterday, even lots of single nights that were not bookable yet, but Grand Desert, Smoky lodge, Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Daytona Beach and I am sure there is more resorts emptied out, but not a night to be found.. looks a bit suspicious...It was good until they had the website go down again having  a update.


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## Avislo (Nov 10, 2017)

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ntory-no-rooms-available.264917/#post-2070190

The above is a similar thread.

The resorts that are effected that have been posted appears to have grown with your addition.


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## ronandjoan (Nov 10, 2017)

msyvonne85 said:


> Has anyone else noticed this, lots of availability yesterday, even lots of single nights that were not bookable yet, but Grand Desert, Smoky lodge, Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Daytona Beach and I am sure there is more resorts emptied out, but not a night to be found.. looks a bit suspicious...It was good until they had the website go down again having  a update.



Of course it looks suspicious... check Wyndham's rental sites... bet there is inventory !


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## chapjim (Nov 10, 2017)

ronandjoan said:


> Of course it looks suspicious... check Wyndham's rental sites... bet there is inventory !



A quick look at Ocean Walk confirms this.  I checked a weekend in November -- nothing on the web site, scattered availability on Extra Holidays.  December 9-16:  nothing on the website; Only four 2BR Deluxe units and Only four 3BR Deluxe units.  If a particular type unit has no availability, it says so on Extra Holidays.  Many unit types have no annotation at all.  Presumably, there are more than four of those available.

Of course, all of November and December are within the 60 day window inside of which Wyndham can take units for its own use.   Looks like they did it!


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## breezez (Nov 10, 2017)

Man I’m glad I’m did not fork over a fortune for VIP.   This would seem to hurt your discount.

Maybe you will get lucky and the ones they can’t rent they will put back in pool


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## CO skier (Nov 10, 2017)

chapjim said:


> Of course, all of November and December are within the 60 day window inside of which Wyndham can take units for its own use.   Looks like they did it!


This is entirely within the rules, if this is what happened.

Wyndham paid the maintenance fees on unreserved units.  If the units do not rent, Wyndham eats the loss just like any other owner, who may have reserved the same units before 60 days and not cancelled within 15 days.


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## Avislo (Nov 10, 2017)

I do not think Wyndham pays any maintenance fees for units they may take at 60 days or less.  If they do not show units as available and have them in some form of hold status and they go into the 60 day window they I think they can take their percentages of the available units.  To the extent that Wyndham owns units that are caught up in this weather mess, they may be taking losses on those units.


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## jumoe (Nov 11, 2017)

I just had an instant upgrade not be honored.   
It is 10:00pm in Las Vegas.   My guest just checked in and said he didn't think he was in the proper unit, so I call the resort.   
They say that the upgrade could not be honored because they didn't have the upgraded unit.  I got NO email notification.  I got NO notification what-so-ever until the guest called and said "I don't think we are in the unit we are supposed to be in".  The manager at Grand Desert said "we gave them the original unit because we don't have the upgrade", and that I have to call Owner Care about why I wasn't notified.   That helps a whole lot when Owner Care closed over 4 hours ago, and my guest just checked in......


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## lost patience (Nov 11, 2017)

I noticed 100% of Nov was missing at Grand Desert and called the resort yesterday to see if they could share the cause and expected "reopen" date.    They told me they had "no idea" and were "not aware" of any issues with inventory.  Hm - looks like the system created phantom inventory that it allowed people to be book again!  The staff is aware is the issues tonight!  Is it possible that they did not know yesterday?


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## wjappraise (Nov 11, 2017)

CO skier said:


> This is entirely within the rules, if this is what happened.
> 
> Wyndham paid the maintenance fees on unreserved units.  If the units do not rent, Wyndham eats the loss just like any other owner, who may have reserved the same units before 60 days and not cancelled within 15 days.



Says the Wyndham employee.  Shill.  


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## Avislo (Nov 14, 2017)

Wyndham Grand Pittsburgh Downtown is showing no availability for me at least through November 2018.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 14, 2017)

The hotels, that have one or two token rooms so that WYN can advertise that we have access don't concern me (albeit would be nice if we really could book there).  I learned my lesson with the Mills House in Charleston  (also showing no availability whatsoever).    I think at some point they'll dump one token room for the year.    Those rooms are better found elsewhere - I used my Wyndham rewards for the Mills House - was actually cheaper than using my WYN points.

Now these other places with now availability - like Bonnet Creek, Las Vegas, Nashville, the timeshare resorts that people are reporting on.  That's concerning, IMO.


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## DRIless (Nov 14, 2017)

CO skier said:


> This is entirely within the rules, if this is what happened.
> Wyndham paid the maintenance fees on unreserved units.  If the units do not rent, Wyndham eats the loss just like any other owner, who may have reserved the same units before 60 days and not cancelled within 15 days.



No way does Wyndham pay the MF on _unreserved_ units!  Hopefully they pay the MF on developer inventory, but it's not necessarily developer inventory until they claim it for use.  Units not used/burning just make more competition for remaining units among owners and the developer.  When they take it to rent they should be paying the MF but then they dump it back into TSowner inventory and absolve themselves of it the way I see it.


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## comicbookman (Nov 14, 2017)

DRIless said:


> No way does Wyndham pay the MF on _unreserved_ units!  Hopefully they pay the MF on developer inventory, but it's not necessarily developer inventory until they claim it for use.  Units not used/burning just make more competition for remaining units among owners and the developer.  When they take it to rent they should be paying the MF but then they dump it back into TSowner inventory and absolve themselves of it the way I see it.



Any units Wyndham has for sale are developer inventory and Wyndham does pay MF on them whether they reserve them or not, just like everyone else.  Units they grab at 60 days are deducted from the total points wyndham owns.  The assumption is that Wyndham will always own far more points than they use for rentals, but I do not think the rules require that.


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## johnstonga (Nov 15, 2017)

At Patriot's Place in Williamsburg, ALL future inventory disappeared a few days ago and has not yet come back.

There's still inventory available at the other two Williamsburg resorts, but Patriot's Place is a total Void.     Odd.


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## Avislo (Nov 15, 2017)

Talked with the resort.  Someone identifying themself as a manager advises they are a fixed week property and recommends through Extra Holidays or RCI.


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## Avislo (Nov 15, 2017)

Just talked with a Wyndham Representative, she advised that they are having problems with inventory and inventory is on hold.


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## cyseitz (Nov 15, 2017)

Avislo said:


> Just talked with a Wyndham Representative, she advised that they are having problems with inventory and inventory is on hold.


At a resort?


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## Avislo (Nov 15, 2017)

Yes, Patriot's Place.  It is interesting that RCI and Extra Holidays appear to be the name of the game at this resort.


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## Lisa P (Nov 17, 2017)

This happened to us, years ago, for two different resorts.  Resort staff had pointed to computer issues at the root of both problems back then.  ???


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## richardm (Nov 17, 2017)

DRIless said:


> No way does Wyndham pay the MF on _unreserved_ units!  Hopefully they pay the MF on developer inventory, but it's not necessarily developer inventory until they claim it for use.  Units not used/burning just make more competition for remaining units among owners and the developer.  When they take it to rent they should be paying the MF but then they dump it back into TSowner inventory and absolve themselves of it the way I see it.



Always seemed like a strange coincidence how there may suddenly be availability showing the night before check in that wasn't there before. I always have found it unlikely that a large number of Club Owners have the courtesy to cancel a day prior when they can't make their trip. Seems like most would have cancelled at the earlier deadline to recover their points. Perhaps it is inventory taken via the breakage policy rules that is later released back to the Club Owner pool to avoid the financial responsibility.  Sad to think that may be the case- but it wouldn't surprise me at this point....


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## Avislo (Nov 17, 2017)

Checked Star Island and Wyndham Great Smokey Lodge neither were showing available through November 2018 for me.


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## Avislo (Nov 18, 2017)

Wyndham Great Smokey Lodge is now show as available for me.


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## Avislo (Nov 20, 2017)

Just checked Wyndham Patriots Place.  No inventory is showing as available showing through November 2018.  Called Wyndham, the representative indicated that yesterday and today they are having problems pulling up inventory at a number of resorts.  Some fixes are affecting availability at other resorts.


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## wjappraise (Nov 20, 2017)

Inexcusable.  Fire them all!  Start over with new IT department and corporate heads.  These folks are incompetent.  


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## Avislo (Nov 20, 2017)

Do not temp Mr. Brown, he just might take you up on your suggestion.


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## spackler (Nov 20, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> Inexcusable.  Fire them all!  Start over with new IT department and corporate heads.  These folks are incompetent.



WYN's stock is up over 40% this year; stockholders are clearly happy with how things are being run.


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## wjappraise (Nov 20, 2017)

spackler said:


> WYN's stock is up over 40% this year; stockholders are clearly happy with how things are being run.



It's a house of cards.  Prepare for the crash (correction) coming.


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## Jan M. (Nov 20, 2017)

Has anyone else ever wondered if the lack of availability at so many resorts is because Wyndham resort management is cutting back on staffing, housekeeping and maintenance workers to keep expenses down at certain times of year to get bigger bonuses for themselves. There have been so many times that we've been told that a resort is completely full and seen plenty of empty parking spaces, hardly anyone else in the halls or elevators and few people at the pool. If you'd never stayed at a particular resort before you might not recognize the difference between a "full resort" according to Wyndham and that resort when it is truly full.


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## 55plus (Nov 20, 2017)

Wyndham doesn't pay anything, we do, the owners. They collect our money, and pays out of the money they collect from us, and also keeps their piece of the pie. Keeping inventory offline benefits Extra Holidays, which in turn benefits Wyndham in around about way.


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## wjappraise (Nov 20, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Has anyone else ever wondered if the lack of availability at so many resorts is because Wyndham resort management is cutting back on staffing, housekeeping and maintenance workers to keep expenses down at certain times of year to get bigger bonuses for themselves. There have been so many times that we've been told that a resort is completely full and seen plenty of empty parking spaces, hardly anyone else in the halls or elevators and few people at the pool. If you'd never stayed at a particular resort before you might not recognize the difference between a "full resort" according to Wyndham and that resort when it is truly full.



I have seen that numerous times since May 20.   Horrible website.  But empty rooms still pay the Wyndham corporate folks as we pay our MF whether or not we can get a room.  


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## Avislo (Nov 20, 2017)

Wyndham Bonnet Creek inventory Appears to be back starting in January.  a 1 bedroom Upgraded to a 2 bedroom. 



January 2018 etc is showing availability including a instant upgrade.  
CHECK-IN Jan 14, 2018 4pm
CHECK OUT Jan 17, 2018 10am
PRICE
_More Information_
45,000 22,500 Points
Congrats! An Upgrade Is Currently Available.

Take advantage of your VIP unit upgrade benefit! Please choose one of the upgrade options below for this reservation and complete your booking — it's that easy.

Please request a VIP upgrade opt-in (choose one):  UPGRADE NOW


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## Jan M. (Nov 21, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> I have seen that numerous times since May 20.   Horrible website.  But empty rooms still pay the Wyndham corporate folks as we pay our MF whether or not we can get a room.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



We've seen supposedly full resorts with maybe only 50-65% of the units actually occupied numerous times well before the new website too.

We, like many other owners, are sick of hearing the VC's and resort's front desk people repeat the b.s. they've been told by Wyndham to tell us. I know that they are just the employees who have to say what they are told to say but I find it highly offensive that Wyndham thinks we are stupid enough to actually believe that b.s. I know that we live in a very litigious society so Wyndham can't really come right out and say they made a mistake or made a poor decision. I just wish they put as much money and effort into actually doing something that would be of benefit as they do into spinning situations, circumventing responsibility, looking for more ways to get into our pockets, etc.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 21, 2017)

Avislo said:


> Wyndham Bonnet Creek inventory Appears to be back starting in January.  a 1 bedroom Upgraded to a 2 bedroom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 21, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> We've seen supposedly full resorts with maybe only 50-65% of the units actually occupied numerous times well before the new website too.
> 
> We, like many other owners, are sick of hearing the VC's and resort's front desk people repeat the b.s. they've been told by Wyndham to tell us. I know that they are just the employees who have to say what they are told to say but I find it highly offensive that Wyndham thinks we are stupid enough to actually believe that b.s. I know that we live in a very litigious society so Wyndham can't really come right out and say they made a mistake or made a poor decision. I just wish they put as much money and effort into actually doing something that would be of benefit as they do into spinning situations, circumventing responsibility, looking for more ways to get into our pockets, etc.


I wonder if the Florida DBPR (if they are the 'governing' entity) would be of any assistance?  In the interest of overseeing and governing this dirty timeshare industry, I would think someone could require some type of report such as 'rooms available to book' versus actual capacity.  I suppose hurricanes and maintenance issues offer them sympathetic reasons to explain why rooms aren't available, and it would get complicated.  But it sure is frustrating as an owner to feel at WYN's mercy to be fair and it sure doesn't feel like they are.


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## Avislo (Nov 21, 2017)

The closest thing I am aware of is what is called a occupancy rate that is often used.  Whether this is public information or not I do not know.


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## am1 (Nov 21, 2017)

spackler said:


> WYN's stock is up over 40% this year; stockholders are clearly happy with how things are being run.



I though that 6 years ago after the big run up.  I lost that battle.


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## 55plus (Nov 21, 2017)

spackler said:


> WYN's stock is up over 40% this year; stockholders are clearly happy with how things are being run.


A lot of the increase is on the backs of owners. Wyndham snatches up high demand locations and high demand time frames to rent through Wyndham Extra Holidays leaving us the leftovers. I have mixed emotions. I benefited from the stock increases, but many locations I want to stay at I have to rent through Extra Holidays which makes my points useless at times while maintenance fees continue to be paid.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 21, 2017)

And now... all kinds of rooms at Bonnet Creek Nov 21-Dec 21.   Where did those come from?


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## Avislo (Nov 21, 2017)

No doubt from all the posts on this and other threads on TUG.  Maybe they are not liking what they read.


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## wjappraise (Nov 21, 2017)

Avislo said:


> No doubt from all the posts on this and other threads on TUG.  Maybe they are not liking what they read.



I doubt they are that worried about our grumblings. . . if they were, things on the piece of crap website would have been repaired months ago.  More likely, it is simply that the inventory they have been holding for the rooms in South Florida being cancelled (to move owners to other resorts) is no longer needed.  At least for the next couple of weeks.


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## Avislo (Nov 21, 2017)

I hope I am right and you are wrong.  However, if I were a betting person, I would bet you are right and against me.


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## bendadin (Nov 21, 2017)

Sandi Bo said:


> And now... all kinds of rooms at Bonnet Creek Nov 21-Dec 21.   Where did those come from?



Gone already.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 22, 2017)

bendadin said:


> Gone already.


So, I have a theory... I can't speak to all resorts, but we've seen this at Bonnet Creek before.  Absolutely nothing available, then for a short window it's like Christmas in July and all kinds of rooms are available, and in a matter of minutes, we're back to nothing available.  Do they need to open the inventory up so someone (extra holidays or another rental arm) can book what they need, and then shut the dates down again?


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## Avislo (Nov 22, 2017)

The thought occurred to me.  It could be a version of what one real estate agent referred as a one day wonder.  That is where a agent has a buyer before the multi-list listing but they have to list it before they sell it.  So they list it on day 1 and sell it to the pre-arranged buyer the next day.


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## am1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Sandi Bo said:


> So, I have a theory... I can't speak to all resorts, but we've seen this at Bonnet Creek before.  Absolutely nothing available, then for a short window it's like Christmas in July and all kinds of rooms are available, and in a matter of minutes, we're back to nothing available.  Do they need to open the inventory up so someone (extra holidays or another rental arm) can book what they need, and then shut the dates down again?



no


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## Avislo (Nov 22, 2017)

Why not?


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## wjappraise (Nov 22, 2017)

Sandi Bo said:


> So, I have a theory... I can't speak to all resorts, but we've seen this at Bonnet Creek before.  Absolutely nothing available, then for a short window it's like Christmas in July and all kinds of rooms are available, and in a matter of minutes, we're back to nothing available.  Do they need to open the inventory up so someone (extra holidays or another rental arm) can book what they need, and then shut the dates down again?



It is plausible, but I do not believe that the inventory needs to be opened up for Wyndham to seize whatever they want, whenever they want it.  The episode we have all just experienced illustrates that.  In this case, other resorts could not accommodate all travelers due to storm damage, so Wyndham seized all available inventory at Bonnet Creek and others to use this to offer to impacted owners.  Once the owners had their accommodations secured, Wyndham released the inventory and our feeding frenzy began.  

I have been told by numerous resort managers that Wyndham routinely does this to facilitate renovation delays, etc. and to use for their own purposes.  So, in essence, we are competing with Big Brother to get our rooms and guess what, we lose.  They have the back end access and can freeze us out whenever it suits their purpose.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 22, 2017)

But there is nothing in December.  Not one single orphan.   They left the available rooms for the remainder of November.  I suspect they opened tower 3 (that was behind in renovations), that would explain why rooms opened up for Thanksgiving week.  But it does not explain opening up December and then closing it up again (unless it was an error on their part)?


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 22, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> It is plausible, but I do not believe that the inventory needs to be opened up for Wyndham to seize whatever they want, whenever they want it.  The episode we have all just experienced illustrates that.  In this case, other resorts could not accommodate all travelers due to storm damage, so Wyndham seized all available inventory at Bonnet Creek and others to use this to offer to impacted owners.  Once the owners had their accommodations secured, Wyndham released the inventory and our feeding frenzy began.
> 
> I have been told by numerous resort managers that Wyndham routinely does this to facilitate renovation delays, etc. and to use for their own purposes.  So, in essence, we are competing with Big Brother to get our rooms and guess what, we lose.  They have the back end access and can freeze us out whenever it suits their purpose.


Yeah, maybe they accidentally opened up December when they opened Tower 3.  It was a quick 30 minutes


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## Lisa P (Nov 22, 2017)

Right now, I see *points* reservation availability in *both 1BR Deluxe and 2 BR Deluxe units for 5 nights, the last week of November*, with Sunday, Nov. 26 check-in and Friday, Dec. 1 check-out:




...and *NOTHING* available for points reservations on December nights (even midweek) in any unit size in early or mid-December?  

BUT... look here at the *rental* option, for *both (four!) 1BR Deluxe and (four!) 2 BR Deluxe units for 5 nights, the week before Christmas*, with Sunday, Dec. 17 check-in and Friday, Dec. 22 check-out:





How FRUSTRATING!    That is so wrong!


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## wjappraise (Nov 22, 2017)

Sandi Bo said:


> Yeah, maybe they accidentally opened up December when they opened Tower 3.  It was a quick 30 minutes



That seems likely.


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## wjappraise (Nov 22, 2017)

Lisa P said:


> Right now, I see availability in *both 1BR Deluxe and 2 BR Deluxe units for 5 nights, the last week of November*., with Sunday, Nov. 26 check-in and Friday, Dec. 1 check-out:
> View attachment 5133
> 
> ...and NOTHING for December nights (even midweek) on points in any unit size in early or mid-December?
> ...



And that is the problem.  As owners we are not, and have not ever, been locked out of inventory by "mega renters" and other owners.  We are locked out by Wyndham's enterprise of Extra Holidays which loves to rent rooms for profit, especially during peak times when inventory is gone at ten months.


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## Avislo (Nov 22, 2017)

Wyndham advises there is nothing being held due to weather at Bonnet Creek, including December 2017.


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## 55plus (Nov 22, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> And that is the problem.  As owners we are not, and have not ever, been locked out of inventory by "mega renters" and other owners.  We are locked out by Wyndham's enterprise of Extra Holidays which loves to rent rooms for profit, especially during peak times when inventory is gone at ten months.


Totally agree! Your statement leads me to this question. If Wyndham Extra Holidays fails to rent a reservation they secured, what happens to the points associated with it? Meaning, if Wyndham dumps it back onto the website a day or two prior to the check-in date do they get the points back to use again, unlike the owners? I see inventory appear a day or two prior a check-in date. Where does this inventory come from? An owner? Probably not. Wyndham Extra Holidays? Probably, but I don't know for sure. I guess my question is, does Wyndham Extra Holidays play by the same rules, policies, etc., we have to play by?


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## Jan M. (Nov 22, 2017)

55plus said:


> does Wyndham Extra Holidays play by the same rules, policies, etc., we have to play by?





wjappraise said:


> And that is the problem



And the comment of the day awards go to 55plus and wjappraise! 

The question is does anyone not think any rules Wyndham arbitrarily makes apply solely to us and that they do as they please then attempt find a way to try to spin it to make it seem like they are acting for our benefit.


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## bendadin (Nov 22, 2017)

I looked about 90 minutes after you posted. Nothing. Although, I did see the second half of December available today. I should get my eyes checked.


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## Don40 (Nov 24, 2017)

Wyndham takes the inventory at 30 days for free, and if they cannot rent they may graciously put back in for us owners or let the units sit empty.  Extra Holuday is and continues to be the biggest maga renter and now has zero competition that was the plan.  This is wyndham slush fund a way to beat the quarterly estimates.  This is the reason points were manufactured by them, as no one including wyndham can truly account for the number of points outstanding.  
Ask anyone who's account was frozen, wyndham could not explain where the points came from.  Total lack of internal controls, perfect opportunity to rob us owners blind.  No inventory will be common place now at the 60 day mark.


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## johnstonga (Nov 25, 2017)

*I heard from a Wyn staffer that Voyager was allowing Lock-outs to be "double booked" ... eg a Three BR lock-out could be booked as a Three BRLO, AND a Two BR AND a One BR.   

Obviously, that would create an "Oversold" situation going into the Holidays at a LOT of resorts, especially if they have lots of Lock-out units.
So Wyn. just blacked out all the dates until the end of the year to be on safe side --- and I suppose they'll open up inventory once they can figure it out ... or the end of the year, which ever comes first.
*


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## Avislo (Nov 25, 2017)

Do you know of the resort(s) involved?


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## cyseitz (Nov 25, 2017)

How in the world can Wyndham be so irresponsible about this whole debacle?  It's like they don't even care what's going on because it seems like there is no urgency at all to fix it for us.


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## Lisa P (Nov 25, 2017)

Double-booking lock-outs would not account for the blacked out months at Wyndham Bonnet Creek.  There are no lock-outs there.


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## johnstonga (Nov 25, 2017)

Avislo said:


> Do you know of the resort(s) involved?



*I inferred that it was systems wide,  not resort specific.

Some resorts are mostly lockouts, usually the older "Fairfield" resorts ... other's have few if any lock-outs.

Bonnet Creek has no lock-outs ... but it is a Very High Demand resort, so it's gonna be first to go in Orlando .... and a target for renters, including Extra Holidays to scoop up inventory.

Still Weeknites in Early to Mid December should have significant availability even at Bonnet Creek.*


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## Avislo (Nov 26, 2017)

Thanks for the information.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 26, 2017)

Yes, thanks for posting.   

I'm pretty much at a loss for words at this point.  WYN has no accountability. There are so many different things we hear, scheduled maintenance, hurricane damage (or not), system issues, overbooking, holding for others, inventory not loaded, it just goes on and on. And just gotta love that we can still be told it's a busy time year, thus no availability.

Not much good in the way of results (we are in dire need of a working, dependable system).  Just trying to keep my head above water and hope I don't end up without a room when I'm thinking I have one. That's my goal for the remainder of 2017.


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## DeeDibble (Nov 26, 2017)

Isn’t it obvious that Wyndham is grabbing everything everywhere for Extra Holidays - do they have no conscience? As far as the Florida Resorts go they are blaming the hurricanes- how convenient for them.  This is an obvious hostile position they are taking against the owners.


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## north (Nov 27, 2017)

Bonnet Creek is showing availability for the first half of December.  Nothing at the other Orlando resorts.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 27, 2017)

north said:


> Bonnet Creek is showing availability for the first half of December.  Nothing at the other Orlando resorts.


Thanks for posting.  Crazy, for sure.  Sure wish WYN were somehow held accountable for inventory available and held; when they offer it to owners and when they are allowed to hoard it.


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## johnstonga (Dec 3, 2017)

*Patriots Place Update ... 
On Nov 29 Lots and Lots of Availability Reappeared for all of December including Christmas week.  It had been showing Nothing for about Two weeks.

GAJ
*



johnstonga said:


> *I inferred that it was systems wide,  not resort specific.
> 
> Some resorts are mostly lockouts, usually the older "Fairfield" resorts ... other's have few if any lock-outs.
> 
> ...


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## Jmama9643 (Apr 26, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> We've seen supposedly full resorts with maybe only 50-65% of the units actually occupied numerous times well before the new website too.
> 
> We, like many other owners, are sick of hearing the VC's and resort's front desk people repeat the b.s. they've been told by Wyndham to tell us. I know that they are just the employees who have to say what they are told to say but I find it highly offensive that Wyndham thinks we are stupid enough to actually believe that b.s. I know that we live in a very litigious society so Wyndham can't really come right out and say they made a mistake or made a poor decision. I just wish they put as much money and effort into actually doing something that would be of benefit as they do into spinning situations, circumventing responsibility, looking for more ways to get into our pockets, etc.




I agree Jan.  We used to see a LOT of vacant parking spaces when 'the resort is full', and like you, we have seen the resort when it was ACTUALLY full and had NO Spaces left in the parking spaces near the units, and we had to park in the Overflow area.  That being said, although I didn't initially like the 15 day cancellation period change of losing all points if we cancel less than 15 days, I DO like the fact that more of the units are actually being utilized now because with the 15 day cancellation it actually gives owners time to use or rent this inventory instead of it just being 'wasted' (not used) by owners that used to cancel the day before check-in if they couldn't use or rent the unit, (I was guilty of that sometimes also).  I am guessing the vacant units now are caused by Wyndham grabbing the inventory to rent themselves thru Extra Vacations, and then either dumping them back on the system a day or 2 before check-in and then no one has time to use it.  I have no problem with Wyndham renting out the 'corporate owned' units, or units/points for other Owners that do not wish to bother with renting out units themselves, but I just wish they had to play by THE SAME RULES that WE have to play by.  Such as, when you cancel a unit it should come back on the system instead of being automatically snagged by Wyndham's corporate system to rent out via Extra Vacations.  AND They should LOSE their Points if they do not cancel prior to 15 Days of check-in, JUST LIKE US!!!


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## paxsarah (Apr 26, 2019)

Jmama9643 said:


> I didn't initially like the 15 day cancellation period change of losing all points if we cancel less than 15 days



The 15-day cancellation period for losing points hasn’t changed since I’ve been an owner (nearly 9 years). In fact, the only change on that front has been the addition of points protection in the last year or so where owners can cancel all the way up to check-in (if they buy the protection in advance, of course).


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## Jmama9643 (Apr 27, 2019)

This happened at Pagosa also last year, and it was MORE than 60 days prior to check-in.  I was looking for availability in the summer of 2018, and there was not ONE SINGLE NIGHT in ANY SIZE unit available for June, July Or Aug.!!  Anyone that has been an owner for ANY time knows that is IMPOSSIBLE for Pagosa because of the number of units available.  I kept calling and kept getting the run around for several attempts, and then FINALLY someone admitted that they had a problem with their reservation system, like double bookings, or ??  she wouldn't say, BUT she admitted that because of the issue they froze ALL Inventory for ALL 3 MONTHS of the summer.  This continued most, if not all of the summer and I was unable to book anything there for SEVERAL MONTHS in the summer because of this issue.


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## Jmama9643 (Apr 27, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> The 15-day cancellation period for losing points hasn’t changed since I’ve been an owner (nearly 9 years). In fact, the only change on that front has been the addition of points protection in the last year or so where owners can cancel all the way up to check-in (if they buy the protection in advance, of course).



Yes, probably happened around the time you became a member.  Doesn't seem that long ago, but I have been a member for 20 years, and it was DEFINETELY an option to cancel up to the day of, or day before without penalty.  Funny that Wyndham now allows it again, but now they are just making $$ on it...


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## Jmama9643 (Apr 27, 2019)

Since Wyndham purchased Fairfield they give us one carrot, and 3 Whacks on the head to go along with it!!!


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## paxsarah (Apr 27, 2019)

Jmama9643 said:


> Yes, probably happened around the time you became a member.  Doesn't seem that long ago, but I have been a member for 20 years, and it was DEFINETELY an option to cancel up to the day of, or day before without penalty.  Funny that Wyndham now allows it again, but now they are just making $$ on it...



Based on past posts here, it appears it was 2008. Your initial post made it sound like it was some sort of recent change.


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## 55plus (Apr 27, 2019)

Jmama9643 said:


> Since Wyndham purchased Fairfield they give us one carrot, and 3 Whacks on the head to go along with it!!!


Our experience from Wyndham acquiring Fairfield is, all the additional resorts becoming available to us. Yes, it did create some problems and some policies suck, but overall adding all the additional resorts benefits us. Points were much cheaper back then, so overall it's a win win for original Fairfield owners.


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## ausman (Apr 27, 2019)

55plus said:


> Our experience from Wyndham acquiring Fairfield is, all the additional resorts becoming available to us. Yes, it did create some problems and some policies suck, but overall adding all the additional resorts benefits us. Points were much cheaper back then, so overall it's a win win for original Fairfield owners.



When misinformation is posted I'm reluctant to jump in and say what a load of BS but in this case what you posted is just plain wrong.

1) Wyndham did NOT purchase Fairfield. Fairfield thought their name was tainted and underwent a name change only. Same players, same rules, same everything except the name was changed. 

2) There were no additional resorts added at that time, it was a name change only.

3) There have been changes subsequently but you can not attribute those to Fairfield deciding to operate under the Wyndham name.

The best way sometimes to stop such misinformation is to call attention to it and dispute its veracity.


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## dgalati (Apr 27, 2019)

basham said:


> When misinformation is posted I'm reluctant to jump in and say what a load of BS but in this case what you posted is just plain wrong.
> 
> 1) Wyndham did NOT purchase Fairfield. Fairfield thought their name was tainted and underwent a name change only. Same players, same rules, same everything except the name was changed.
> 
> ...



There was a little more to it then just changing a tainted name. Full history see below.

*History of Wyndham Vacation Ownership*
The story of the development of Wyndham Vacation Ownership, the timeshare division of what is now Wyndham Worldwide, is a winding road of various entities which have, collectively, become the largest vacation ownership company in the world.

Headquartered in Orlando, Florida and centered on a points-based system of vacation ownership products, Wyndham Vacation Ownership has developed or obtained over 185 timeshare resorts throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and the South Pacific which include over 23,000 individual units.

To chart the sometimes confusing course of the Wyndham Vacation Ownership history, we first look at the hotel side. The Wyndham Hotel Corporation was founded by Trammel Crow in Dallas, Texas in 1981, with the company reportedly named after Wyndham Robertson, who was a writer for Forbes Magazine and wrote a profile on Crow. The company grew over the years through a combination of acquisitions and corporate restructures, with the company renamed Wyndham International in 1999.

​
Now, to the timeshare side. A company called Fairfield Resorts had been operating since 1966 as one of the nation's first timeshare operators. In the 1980's the company decided to diversify from its core timeshare product into such areas as real estate, housing developments, commercial sites and golf courses. Financial struggles set in and the company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1990, emerging in 1992 with a new model as the first timeshare operator to transition from the original, fixed-week ownership structure to the points-based system which is widely used in the industry today.

Fairfield grew throughout the remainder of the 1990s, with the corporate headquarters moving from Little Rock, Arkansas to Orlando, Florida in 1999. In 2000, the company was one of the first to allow owners to make online reservations through a dedicated website.

In 2001, Fairfield was bought by real estate and hospitality company Cendant for a reported $690 million, naming Franz Hanning as CEO. The next year, Cendant also bought Trendwest Resorts and Equivest Finance, creating the Cendant Timeshare Resort Group which was, at the time, the largest vacation ownership company in the industry.

​
Meanwhile in 2004, Wyndham International , in conjunction with timeshare operator Tempus Resorts International, announced the launch of the brand Wyndham Vacation Ownership, which was originally created to attract independent timeshare and hotel developers to participate in a franchise and affiliation arrangement under the Wyndham brand.

Wyndham International was then sold to affiliates of the Blackstone Group in June, 2005, who then sold the Wyndham brands to Cendant.

Enter 2006. Cendant now owns all of the above entities and spins off the resort operations under the newly created moniker Wyndham Worldwide. This would include Cendant Timeshare Resort Group Inc. changing its name to Wyndham Vacation Ownership Inc. , Fairfield Resorts renamed as Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Trendwest North America's WorldMark by Trendwest changed to WorldMark by Wyndham, and Trendwest South Pacific called Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific. Wyndham International would also be absorbed under the new Wyndham Worldwide.

Now operating as a subsidiary under the Wyndham Worldwide structure, Wyndham Vacation Ownership would become the umbrella brand for three primary groups (Wyndham Vacation Resorts, WorldMark by Wyndham, and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific). Wyndham Vacation Resorts would later be re-branded as Club Wyndham.

*But the Wyndham would continue to grow.*
In 2012, Wyndham Vacation Ownership acquired one of North America's most respected independent timeshare operations, Shell Vacations Club. With over 40 years of serving guests in Canada and the U.S., Wyndham would welcome Shell's 19 managed resorts and over 115,000 members into the fold, but continue to manage Shell Vacations Club as a separate consumer brand. This acquisition would open the Wyndham program to additional Shell resort destinations in locales such as the Canadian ski wonderland of Whistler, the tropical paradise of Hawaii and the Las Vegas strip.

The Wyndham Vacation Ownership timeshare powerhouse now has over 900,000 owner families and continues to be run by CEO Franz Hanning. The company has also pioneered a new business model, prompted by the lean years of the recession, which has ensured even more growth for the company. Called the Wyndham Asset Affiliation Model (WAAM), the plan allows for Wyndham to bring additional timeshare resorts into an affiliation agreement with the company, with Wyndham taking over sales and marketing for the resort with an option to refurbish and re-brand the resort under the Wyndham name. This allows Wyndham to continue to add resorts to the portfolio, creating new vacation destinations for its membership without the heavy capital outlay needed for new resort development.

*So, if you're keeping score at home, Wyndham Vacation Ownership now includes:*


Club Wyndham - the former Wyndham Vacation Resorts group which boasts a portfolio of more than 70 resorts. This points-based option can be used for resort accommodation or travel options such as cruises, guided trips and hotel stays.
*WorldMark By Wyndham* - claiming more than 270,000 owners, this international brand boasts some of the most majestic vacation destinations in the world, from Canada, the U.S. West Coast, Hawaii and Florida to Mexico and Fiji.
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific - founded in November 1999, the top vacation ownership operator in the South Pacific region hosts a network of 24 vacation ownership resorts in the Asia Pacific region, serving owners in Australia, New Zealand and Fiji in its WorldMark South Pacific Club by Wyndham. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific has its corporate office on the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia and employs more than 1,500 staff throughout the South Pacific.
Shell Vacations Club - a winner of more than 100 industry awards for excellence, the Club has expanded to 24 Club and affiliated resorts in the U.S., Canada and Mexico. The points-based program not only opens numerous vacation accommodation options to its membership, but members can use their points on leisure activities, travel, shopping, dining, culture and entertainment.
Looking ahead, Wyndham Vacation Ownership continues to think outside the box with unique partnerships such as the latest agreement with Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville Hospitality Group to redevelop the former Grand Beach Palace Resort, located on the Caribbean island of St. Thomas in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The newly named Wyndham St. Thomas, a Margaritaville Vacation Club resort, is due to open in late 2014 with 262 timeshare units and will be the first timeshare resort for the new Margaritaville Vacation Club by Wyndham vacation ownership brand.


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## WyndhamBarter (Apr 28, 2019)

There is more history since this article of course.  Notably Franz Hanning stepping aside two
years ago as CEO and being replaced by Michael D. Brown, former COO of Hilton Grand Vacations.

https://www.latimes.com/os-bz-wyndham-brown-20170418-story.html


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