# Wyndham Destination - Look Out Owners, Here Comes The Pressure!



## Bob & Mary (May 13, 2020)

Timeshares will be a problem- Will they depend on existing owners buying more points?

During the earnings call, Michael Brown pointed out that, “_As we ramp back, expect tour volumes to be lower year-over-year, even in the fourth quarter. Our plan is to raise FICO levels and exhibit caution in re-opening marketing programs with traditionally low margins. Additionally, our focus on getting owners on vacation will place a greater weighting on owner sales in the near term. Combined, these actions will result in higher margins and a lower loan loss provision going forward._”

Full Article: https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...tm_source=news.google.com&utm_medium=referral


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## chapjim (May 13, 2020)

Great article!!  I follow some other stocks on Seeking Alpha -- good website.


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## cbyrne1174 (May 13, 2020)

How do they know the average FICO score and income of owners? I've never given them either one. Are they only counting retail purchasers?

Also, if I were to default on my ownership through loss of job, how will they know how to report me to the credit bureau? I never understood that. Back in the day when you had to sign a contract for a cell phone, I defaulted on a plan that was supposed to be 2 years, but never gave them my SSN because I didn't finance a phone and it never went to my credit .


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## HitchHiker71 (May 14, 2020)

Anything is possible.  I was posting into a thread here on TUG with some specific details via some "back of the napkin" financial predictions in a manner similar to this article - so I'm not surprised to read the same predictions backed by better research.  If we don't see a quick V type recession/depression - which I think is unlikely for a variety of legitimate reasons due to structural inequities in our economy - then Wyndham Destinations as we know it today could look very very different a year out.  PE taking over is certainly a possibility - much like what happened with Diamond via Apollo - though the amount of change would certainly be more significant than that example.


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## HitchHiker71 (May 14, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> How do they know the average FICO score and income of owners? I've never given them either one. Are they only counting retail purchasers?
> 
> Also, if I were to default on my ownership through loss of job, how will they know how to report me to the credit bureau? I never understood that. Back in the day when you had to sign a contract for a cell phone, I defaulted on a plan that was supposed to be 2 years, but never gave them my SSN because I didn't finance a phone and it never went to my credit .



It's probably limited to retail purchasers - though this data is readily accessible either via soft credit pulls - or via various third party list services that gather and sell this type of data to companies like Wyndham.  You can always check your FICO soft credit pulls IIRC.


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## pedro47 (May 14, 2020)

Nice article but not for stock holders or investors.  That was a very, very heavy loss IMHO.


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## TUGBrian (May 14, 2020)

brutal for sure....but folks said the industry wouldnt recover after the crash/recession in the late 2000s....it appears to be incredibly resilient!


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## Steve Fatula (May 14, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> brutal for sure....but folks said the industry wouldnt recover after the crash/recession in the late 2000s....it appears to be incredibly resilient!



Then there is the ultimate, I have heard since the 80's that Apple would be out of business any minute now, lol. And I even saw another one of those last week, incredible. I think Wyndham will survive and adapt.


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## TheHolleys87 (May 15, 2020)

?
What article? I don't see a link.


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## TUGBrian (May 15, 2020)

interesting, where did the link go?


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## TravelTime (May 15, 2020)

Where is the link?


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## MrockStar (May 15, 2020)

Wheres the Beef ?


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## chuckie50 (May 15, 2020)

I'm interested as well


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## TUGBrian (May 16, 2020)

found another thread on it and merged them...sorry for the confusion!


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## overthehill (May 16, 2020)

*cbyrne1174  asks how the timeshare companies know the FICO scores. Credit repositories (credit bureaus) sell information about you to any company for a fee. How does that work? Let's say I own a retail company and want to solicit my product to those people having a FICO score of 700 or higher. I contact the credit bureau and make the request, setting parameters (FICO score, number of credit cards outstanding, use of credit and so on), agreeing to a fee, etc. and the credit bureau will provide me all the people who meet my criteria. 
You may have received over the years, solicitations from credit card companies who have contracted with the credit bureau to obtain your information.
That said, you can "OPT OUT" of such credit searches by writing to each credit bureau and making such a request. Some may offer that option on-line. I Opted Out years ago so do not receive such solicitations. Opting out works.*


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## Explorer7 (May 16, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> How do they know the average FICO score and income of owners? I've never given them either one. Are they only counting retail purchasers?
> 
> Also, if I were to default on my ownership through loss of job, how will they know how to report me to the credit bureau? I never understood that. Back in the day when you had to sign a contract for a cell phone, I defaulted on a plan that was supposed to be 2 years, but never gave them my SSN because I didn't finance a phone and it never went to my credit .





A linked Wyndham credit card is probably a very simple resource for them to use to obtain a credit score


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joestein (May 16, 2020)

Just a thought......

How about if Wyndham or any timeshare company would change it's model to eliminate sales people and the free stay/gifts.   

They could probably cut the price in half and still make as much if not more on the sales.   They can promote it through email or other advertising.   Get some PR out there.   This is the time to try it, call it a the new reality of timeshares.   Maybe guaranty no maintenance fees until the COVID scare is over.


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## stumahlin (May 16, 2020)

RE:  During the earnings call, Michael Brown pointed out that, “...[O]_ur focus on getting owners on vacation will place a greater weighting on owner sales in the near term."

Sounds like another great reason to avoid "owner updates." _

Full Article: https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...tm_source=news.google.com&utm_medium=referral


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## pedro47 (May 16, 2020)

stumahlin said:


> RE:  During the earnings call, Michael Brown pointed out that, “...[O]_ur focus on getting owners on vacation will place a greater weighting on owner sales in the near term."
> 
> Sounds like another great reason to avoid "owner updates." _
> 
> Full Article: https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...tm_source=news.google.com&utm_medium=referral


Their will be more pressure at check in to attend an owner update and to hear the new topics called "What is happening after Covid-19 by the truthful TS sale team ." LOL


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## traumaguy (May 16, 2020)

TUGBrian said:


> brutal for sure....but folks said the industry wouldnt recover after the crash/recession in the late 2000s....it appears to be incredibly resilient!


this is America people here have a 6 sec memory, and they are all about me, we in the middle of a health crisis and people worried about going to disney world, they will buy and pay even higher prices in the future mark my word


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## pauljeffrey10 (May 16, 2020)

Thanks for reposting for others to read!
There is a telltale sign hidden in the link that tells me this is my original post on the Wyndham Timeshare Owners FB page.
Your welcome.


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## Richelle (May 16, 2020)

joestein said:


> Just a thought......
> 
> How about if Wyndham or any timeshare company would change it's model to eliminate sales people and the free stay/gifts.
> 
> They could probably cut the price in half and still make as much if not more on the sales. They can promote it through email or other advertising. Get some PR out there. This is the time to try it, call it a the new reality of timeshares. Maybe guaranty no maintenance fees until the COVID scare is over.



I’m not saying that’s impossible but changing their entire way of selling won’t happen over the course of a few months. That might even take years. If I see a flyer in the mail, it goes directly into the shredder or recycle bin. Many marketing emails end up in junk folders. For some reason my reservation confirmation emails get sent to junk even though I marked the sender as safe. Some of their marketing emails find their way there too. Selling something to people don’t understand, cannot hold in their hand, or use right away is incredibly difficult. Especially with new people. That’s why many sales people resort to lying. It’s the easy route and when they are looking to pay the bills, they are ok with lying. I think Wyndham can change how they sell. They have to if they want to stay alive. Part of them adapting was telesales which has been a around for a few years at least. Not sure exactly when they started. I’m not sure how many of the other developers have direct sales by phone but I would imagine Wyndham isn’t the only one. The ones that do have a better chance of surviving. Right now they are leaning on them more heavily then They have in the past. If they do well, it’s possible you may see fewer sales people at the resorts. The telesales reps still run into the same issue with trying to sell people something they don’t know, cannot use right away, and cannot hold in their hand. Existing owners are probably their safest bet right now. They are easier to sell because you have less to explain. I hope they change sooner rather then later. I think they are heading that way. Fingers crossed!


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## dgalati (May 17, 2020)

Most good products sell themselves.  The only products that need to be sold with high pressure sales tactics, half truths and lies are usually  very over priced or just not a very good value.


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