# Introducing WYNDHAM Club Pass



## NHTraveler

from https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/href.do?id=NEWS-0000796

Introducing WYNDHAM Club Pass

WYNDHAM Club Pass banner

Over the years, we’ve asked what we could do to make your vacation experience even better. You told us you wanted access to more resorts and the ability to vacation across multiple Wyndham brands. Well today we’re pleased to introduce WYNDHAM Club PassSM — a new program that will soon be available to CLUB WYNDHAM® owners.

WYNDHAM Club Pass, which we anticipate to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership’s very own internal exchange program.

Essentially, it will give CLUB WYNDHAM owners seamless access to more than 55 Wyndham resorts, expanding your ability to travel to unique destinations across the country.

This new benefit will be available to CLUB WYNDHAM owners next year. We hope WYNDHAM Club Pass will bring our vacation ownership brands together with one simple idea in mind: “Yours. Mine. Ours.”

For more information read our Frequently Asked Questions, and stay tuned in the coming months for additional details!


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## blr666

All Worldmark Members will be part of this club but if you want to exchange, you have to use developers credits.   Why would this be a good thing for a resale member.   We are going to lose units. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## NHTraveler

Here are the FAQs...

Frequently Asked Questions

1.  What is WYNDHAM Club Pass?

WYNDHAM Club Pass is Wyndham Vacation Ownership’s new internal exchange program. This program is a simple way to give our CLUB WYNDHAM® and WorldMark® by Wyndham owners the freedom to move outside of their individual home Clubs, expanding their access to unique destinations found across the country. The tagline, Yours. Mine. Ours. reinforces that Wyndham is truly one company with one set of values.

2.  When will WYNDHAM Club Pass be available?

It is anticipated that WYNDHAM Club Pass will be available to CLUB WYNDHAM and WorldMark by Wyndham owners in June 2014.

3.  Who is eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass?

All CLUB WYNDHAM and WorldMark by Wyndham owners will be automatically enrolled as a member of the new WYNDHAM Club Pass program. 

4.  What is the benefit of WYNDHAM Club Pass?

With WYNDHAM Club Pass, CLUB WYNDHAM and WorldMark by Wyndham owners will be able to use their points/credits to seamlessly access more than 55 additional Wyndham timeshare resorts outside of their individual home Club. 

5.  Why was WYNDHAM Club Pass created?

WYNDHAM Club Pass was created because we have listened and are responding to owner feedback. Over the years we’ve asked what we could do to make an owner’s vacation ownership experience even better. Our owners have told is they’d like access to more resorts and the ability to vacation across multiple Wyndham Vacation Ownership brands.  WYNDHAM Club Pass will allow members to do just that — use more than 55 additional Wyndham resorts using their points or vacation credits. 

6.  Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program?

Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by using their developer purchased credits/points.

7.  Will there be a transaction fee?

Although your membership in WYNDHAM Club Pass is free, if you elect to exchange there will be a minimal transaction fee of $99 per reservation.

8.  Will Shell Vacations Club members be able to use WYNDHAM Club Pass as well?

No, at this time WYNDHAM Club Pass will only be available to CLUB WYNDHAM and WorldMark owners.

9. Will housekeeping credits or tokens be needed when using the WYNDHAM Club Pass exchange benefit?

Similar to when booking with an external exchange program, housekeeping credits or tokens needed are determined by your individual home Club rules. 

10. What will be the booking window for WYNDHAM Club Pass?

There is a nine-month booking window for resort inventory in WYNDHAM Club Pass.

11.  When will I be able to make reservations for resorts in WYNDHAM Club Pass?

We anticipate that exchanges will begin in June 2014 for arrivals at the end of August.

12.  May I rent inventory that I booked through WYNDHAM Club Pass?

No. Inventory booked via WYNDHAM Club Pass cannot be rented.

13.  Does this change my membership options or benefits with my home Club (WorldMark, The Club or CLUB WYNDHAM Plus?)

No. All membership benefits associated with your existing home Club remain unchanged as a result of the new WYNDHAM Club Pass internal exchange program. 

14.  Can I have a membership to more than one Club in the Wyndham Vacation Ownership portfolio of brands?

Yes. Membership into several of these respective Clubs is permitted. There are exclusive benefits of each respective Club separate and apart from WYNDHAM Club Pass.

15.  I have an existing reservation at an affiliate/associate resort. Does this reservation remain intact once WYNDHAM Club Pass has been implemented?

Yes, reservations made at affiliate and/or associate resorts will be honored even after WYNDHAM Club Pass has been implemented. 

16.  How will my points/credits convert in the new WYNDHAM Club Pass program?

There is no conversion required. All of the credits/points will be represented in your home Club currency. When the program launches credit/point values will be provided on the website and in the directory.

17.  What does this new exchange program mean for inventory availability in my individual home Club?

Inventory availability in WYNDHAM Club Pass will be continually regulated according to usage ratios across both participating Clubs. In simple terms, any inventory that is used within one Club through WYNDHAM Club Pass will be offset through availability of equivalent inventory in the other participating Club. Similar to existing affiliations with exchange programs, WYNDHAM Club Pass will remain at all times in full compliance within established Club bylaws as articulated in each respective Club’s governing documents for the management of the inventory that is exchanged 
between individual home Clubs by owners; and, will be operated in compliance with all applicable laws in any jurisdictions in which WYNDHAM Club Pass operates. 

from https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffrweb/pdfs/wyn_club_pass_faqs.pdf


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## vacationhopeful

Developer credits and points only ... nice touch. 

And another $99 fee .... so, it is under $100 in costs - free membership for the people who already spent $15,000-150,000 for their point or credit ownership. At least Wyndham KNOWS they have the money (or did have the money. :ignore.

Shell owners - not yet. But are the Shell units in the pot?

Can my PIC points be used - as developer counted points? 

Can't rent these new reservations --- I like going to new places --- why would I rent them?


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## rhonda

I'm guessing this means, "Goodbye!" to internal reservations across the two systems that I'm currently doing with NO exchange fee?  Will my Wyndham reservations through WCP require certain check-in nights or length of stay?   Will this mean I will no longer see the occasional Wyndham property offered to me via WM Monday Madness?

Hmmm ...


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## vacationhopeful

I guess they are trying to segregate the Resale owners to using their points only at their HOME RESORT --- good thing I like my Home Resorts and book at the 13 month ARP window. And if they wait too long, the under utilized resorts and lowest occupancy seasons will be the leftover available.

I guess I will be camping out in the winter at Kingsgate and Seawatch using my Resort Specials discounts ... they have indoor pools and I will just add a plastic palm tree.


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## ronparise

Dont FAQ's 3 and 6 contradict each other

I think this is a non issue for us Wyndham resale owners. We still have all the same resorts open to us. And since there are more Wyndham owners than Worldmark I would expect more Wyndham owners using their points in Worldmark than the other way around..leaving less points in the wyndham system competing for Wyndham resorts, ie more availability, not less.

And if you feel left out, because you own resale points or credits... You Wyndham owners can always buy Worldmark credits (resale) and vice versa


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## cotraveller

There is a similar notice on the WorldMark web site and I received an email announcement of the new program also.   I will assume that email went out to all WorldMark owners.  Based on a quick skim of the FAQ's, those posted on the WorldMark web site are identical to the ones posted above.

Will this new program replace the current WorldMark/Wyndham cross booking that has been in place since WorldMark TravelShare was announced in 2006? (The Exchange Network, or TEN)  That is an unknown at the moment but I would suspect that is the case.


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## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> Dont FAQ's 3 and 6 contradict each other



Sort of, but not quite. There are a number of owners who have both resale and developer points. Presumably only the developer points would be eligible to be traded outside of their home system. But you would still be enrolled in the system automatically, even if none of your points were actually eligible to book a Worldmark resort (if you're a resale Wyndham owner). 

This is another way to attempt to differentiate resale from developer purchased points... I can hear the sales weasels spinning this already... 

Ron's right that it wouldn't have much impact for someone who was willing to invest in ownership in both systems. It clearly may impact those who only have resale Wyndham points who have traded in to Worldmark previously and may no longer be able to do so without making an investment in Worldmark credits.

I do read this as home SYSTEM and not home resort. I wonder if this is the "grain of truth" that some sales weasels were getting people spun up on a week or so ago about, "resale owners will only be able to use their home resort".


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## bsrmotor

So what resorts would be available through Club wyndham pass.


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## Bigrob

bsrmotor said:


> So what resorts would be available through Club wyndham pass.



Presumably, Wyndham owners could book at any of the Worldmark resorts and vice versa, rather than a select subset that are currently set up for it. I don't know what other resorts might be included (so not sure where the "55 additional resorts" are specified).


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## CO skier

vacationhopeful said:


> I guess they are trying to segregate the Resale owners to using their points only at their HOME RESORT --- good thing I like my Home Resorts and book at the 13 month ARP window.


The Wyndham Club Pass is only for exchanges up to 9 months in advance.  Why would this limit "Resale owners to using their points only at their HOME RESORT"?  Any owner (resale or developer) can make reservations anywhere in the Club Wyndham system 10 months in advance.

It is certain, though, that WorldMark owners will not be exchanging into Myrtle Beach in the summer and neither will Club Wyndham owners be exchanging into West Yellowstone or the Pacific coast resorts during the summer.  It will be exchanging 9-month leftovers for 9-month leftovers, and anyone who does not have developer points to participate, will not be missing much.


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## cotraveller

Bigrob said:


> Presumably, Wyndham owners could book at any of the Worldmark resorts and vice versa, rather than a select subset that are currently set up for it. I don't know what other resorts might be included (so not sure where the "55 additional resorts" are specified).



WorldMark currently has 75+ resorts.  Several of those resorts have been shared with Wyndham owners for quite a while. The Wixon lawsuit settlement resulted in some units from 13 WorldMark resorts being moved over to Wyndham adding to the list of joint resorts.  I didn't do a complete count, but if you remove the joint access resorts from the WorldMark list you would probably come up with 55 WorldMark resorts which I would speculate were the 55 additional resorts mentioned in the announcement.

Of more interest to WorldMark owners would be which Wyndham resorts will be available to WorldMark owners under this new setup.  Under the current TEN agreement we have access to a very limited number of units at 18 Wyndham resorts.  What Wyndham resorts will be added to bring that number up to 55 and how much access will we have?


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## slabeaume

*waitlisting?*

I wonder if we'll be able to waitlist with Worldmark, then book with Wyndham points?


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## rleigh

cotraveller said:


> ......Of more interest to WorldMark owners would be which Wyndham resorts will be available to WorldMark owners under this new setup.  Under the current TEN agreement we have access to a very limited number of units at 18 Wyndham resorts.....




Yes, I wonder how this will affect booking of those. WM owners can book at a few Wyndham resorts (Nashville and Bentley Brook for example) just as they would WM. Now, will that mean there will be an extra $99 fee?


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## Bourne

IMHO, 

I do not think the cross "pollination" already built into the systems will change. Else the number quoted "55" would be higher. 

This step basically opens up new inventory at 9 month+ mark. Resorts in Worldmark/Shell that we not previously available for reservation. To throw a carrot to VIPs/developer sales, it is being opened up to the aforementioned owners only. 

To look at it differently, they are creating a wrapper rez system to encapsulate all three existing ones(Wyn/WM/Shell) and allowing cross reservations for a fee. 

For the resale buyer, nothing changes. But I can see how it can be used for driving sales. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.


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## ronparise

cotraveller said:


> WorldMark currently has 75+ resorts.  Several of those resorts have been shared with Wyndham owners for quite a while. The Wixon lawsuit settlement resulted in some units from 13 WorldMark resorts being moved over to Wyndham adding to the list of joint resorts.  I didn't do a complete count, but if you remove the joint access resorts from the WorldMark list you would probably come up with 55 WorldMark resorts which I would speculate were the 55 additional resorts mentioned in the announcement.
> 
> Of more interest to WorldMark owners would be which Wyndham resorts will be available to WorldMark owners under this new setup.  Under the current TEN agreement we have access to a very limited number of units at 18 Wyndham resorts.  What Wyndham resorts will be added to bring that number up to 55 and how much access will we have?



I did the same thing with Club Wyndham access. And the numbers work out pretty much the same. Which leads me to believe all of Worldmark will be open to Wyndham owners and all of theCWA resorts open to worldmark


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## comicbookman

So basically worldmark and club wyndham are affiliating in an RCI/II manner, right down to the reservation fee.  As long as there is no upfront cost I think this is a good thing.


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## Deb from NC

So as a resale Wyndham owner, basically nothing changes for me...is that correct? This is a little confusing to me.....


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## massvacationer

I'm just wondering how the Wyndham computer systems are going to be able to distinguish resale versus retail points.  Especially when one is using pooled and cancelled points and one has mixed contracts (both resale and retail).  

 Is using this new "club pass" exchange system going to necessitate calling into talk to a live person?

I own resale points, and I live on the east coast, so the worldmark resorts are not a big draw for me. So, if i can't use this new exchange system. I won't be real upset.


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## Rent_Share

Deb from NC said:


> So as a resale Wyndham owner, basically nothing changes for me...is that correct? This is a little confusing to me.....


 
More demand on your units


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## Rent_Share

massvacationer said:


> I'm just wondering how the Wyndham computer systems are going to be able to distinguish resale versus retail points. Especially when one is using pooled and cancelled points and one has mixed contracts (both resale and retail).
> 
> Is using this new "club pass" exchange system going to necessitate calling into talk to a live person?
> 
> I own resale points, and I live on the east coast, so the worldmark resorts are not a big draw for me. So, if i can't use this new exchange system. I won't be real upset.


 
They already do, with a distinction for resale points bought before a certain date which are eligible for affiliate booking


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## ronparise

Rent_Share said:


> More demand on your units



There won't be more demand on either system. 
It will be demand neutral
For every Worldmark  owner that wants a Wyndham unit there has to be a Wyndham owner that wants a Worldmark unit. This is at its heart an exchange program.


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## ronparise

Rent_Share said:


> They already do, with a distinction for resale points bought before a certain date which are eligible for affiliate booking



David 

I think you have confused the two systems. With Wyndham there is no date  that separates two class's of points, The only distinction is resale vs retail and the question is. How will they know  in the case of cancelled point and points in the points credit pool?

And the answer is: they already know.
If you call in the vc can see where every point comes from. Perhaps this signals the unveiling of Voyager


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## PeterS

Bourne said:


> IMHO,
> 
> I do not think the cross "pollination" already built into the systems will change. Else the number quoted "55" would be higher.
> 
> This step basically opens up new inventory at 9 month+ mark. Resorts in Worldmark/Shell that we not previously available for reservation. To throw a carrot to VIPs/developer sales, it is being opened up to the aforementioned owners only.
> 
> To look at it differently, they are creating a wrapper rez system to encapsulate all three existing ones(Wyn/WM/Shell) and allowing cross reservations for a fee.
> 
> For the resale buyer, nothing changes. But I can see how it can be used for driving sales. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.



After reading and rereading the announcement and FAQ, I see this entirely different...

I don't see this effecting any of the Wyndham/Worldmark interexchange at all... and also explains why Shell is not included as it is today...

I think this is just a way of letting Wyndham Club member use their points to exchange directly into 55 resorts in the *Wyndham Hotel chain* and/or their rental group that manage units at various locations. 
It is new because presently you would have to convert your Wyndham Club points to Wyndham Rewards points to exchange into the Wyndham hotel chain.

No changes to what we have now... just a new feature to open up some of the Wyndham Hotel chain and previous "rental only" units, to the vacation group in a seamless way...

Just my read.... let me know what you think...

Pete


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## ronparise

PeterS said:


> After reading and rereading the announcement and FAQ, I see this entirely different...
> 
> I don't see this effecting any of the Wyndham/Worldmark interexchange at all... and also explains why Shell is not included as it is today...
> 
> I think this is just a way of letting Wyndham Club member use their points to exchange directly into 55 resorts in the *Wyndham Hotel chain* and/or their rental group that manage units at various locations.
> It is new because presently you would have to convert your Wyndham Club points to Wyndham Rewards points to exchange into the Wyndham hotel chain.
> 
> No changes to what we have now... just a new feature to open up some of the Wyndham Hotel chain and previous "rental only" units, to the vacation group in a seamless way...
> 
> Just my read.... let me know what you think...
> 
> Pete



Sorry I don't see that the hotels were mentioned at all. This seems to me to be all timeshare. Wyndham and Worldmark for now but I bet Shell will come in later


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## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Sorry I don't see that the hotels were mentioned at all. This seems to me to be all timeshare. Wyndham and Worldmark for now but I bet Shell will come in later



Per Wyndham Owner Care, the pass program is just a discount program for services at the resorts.  Smuglers Notch is the only one in the program at this time, however there are plans to expand this program system wide.  She confirmed it will be made available to Wyndham club plus members.

Reservations did not know this program but thought it might be a program coming up for Club Wyndham Access Members.

Still checking.

Tried the VIP line, was advised it is no longer seperate,  it is just the regular reservation people.  No help here.


WYNDHAM CLUB PASS
By: Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC

Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC
22 Sylvan Way , Parsippany, NJ, 07054 

Driving directions to Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC and product information about WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is provided. WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is a service created by Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC in  22 Sylvan Way , Parsippany, NJ, 07054. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS  is a service related to Vacation real estate time share exchange services; Vacation real estate timeshare services. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS service has not yet been made publicly available yet in the United States. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is in the category of  Insurance & Financial Services . 

Get in contact with the owner, Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC of this WYNDHAM CLUB PASS, or visit them at their place of business in the map. Write a review about the service with this WYNDHAM CLUB PASS. 

Or, contact the owner Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC of the  WYNDHAM CLUB PASS trademark by filing a request to communicate with the Legal Correspondent   for licensing, use, and/or questions related to WYNDHAM CLUB PASS. The correspondent of the WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is  SUSAN L. CRANE of WYNDHAM WORLDWIDE CORPORATION, 22 SYLVAN WAY, PARSIPPANY, NJ 07054-3801 .

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...w=text&ei=zuRGUrnpM7LG4AOio4HIDg&ved=0CEUQtQM

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...w=text&ei=zuRGUrnpM7LG4AOio4HIDg&ved=0CEUQtQM

Just found someone in Wyndham Corporate that has heard of the program.  It is being set up as a seperate group and is under the Wyndham Hotel empire.


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## timeos2

vacationhopeful said:


> Developer credits and points only ... nice touch.
> 
> And another $99 fee .... so, it is under $100 in costs - free membership for the people who already spent $15,000-150,000 for their point or credit ownership. At least Wyndham KNOWS they have the money (or did have the money. :ignore.
> 
> Shell owners - not yet. But are the Shell units in the pot?
> 
> Can my PIC points be used - as developer counted points?
> 
> Can't rent these new reservations --- I like going to new places --- why would I rent them?



The FAQ state that all OWNERS of Club / Club Points will be automatically in. That doesn't differentiate on how you became an owner. Am I reading it wrong?

In any case it certainly doesn't impact the ability of Wyndham Points owners - resale or retail - to use their points at any Wyndham Points resort. At worst it means they don't get the ADDITIONAL access to the Worldmark resorts that a retail buyer would (but, like VIP, the cost difference in retail vs resale doesn't make those additional few resorts / trades a good value - you are better off buying some Worldmark also resale). Saying this s limiting resale buyers to their HOME RESORT as has been reported about some sales weasels is a twisting of the facts. In fact they may be limited to their home SYSTEM - a completely different, and unchanged, thing. As usual it appears to be largely smoke and mirrors to confuse buyers / owners and make it seem that somehow overpriced retail points are somehow a better value than resale when in fact that is never likely to happen. Certainly not from this announcement or the existing VIP perk nonsense. 

It also reenforces the fact that unless you are really gung ho on Wyndham and or Worldmark it makes more and more sense to rent them rather than own them for the truly best return on the dollar spent in those systems. Let the owners of the system do the work & figure it all out. As a renter you don't care if an out of system reservation can be rented or not (the FAQ's say no) you can just rent, usually at a significant discount, from whichever side has the resort you want. Easy. Meanwhile ownership just gets more convoluted and costly. Renting may be the best route for most now.


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## siesta

timeos2 said:


> The FAQ state that all OWNERS of Club / Club Points will be automatically in. That doesn't differentiate on how you became an owner. Am I reading it wrong?


From the FAQ:

6. Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program?

Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by using their *developer purchased credits/points.*


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## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Per Wyndham Owner Care, the pass program is just a discount program for services at the resorts.  Smuglers Notch is the only one in the program at this time, however there are plans to expand this program system wide.  She confirmed it will be made available to Wyndham club plus members.
> 
> Reservations did not know this program but thought it might be a program coming up for Club Wyndham Access Members.
> 
> Still checking.
> 
> Tried the VIP line, was advised it is no longer seperate,  it is just the regular reservation people.  No help here.
> 
> 
> WYNDHAM CLUB PASS
> By: Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC
> 
> Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC
> 22 Sylvan Way , Parsippany, NJ, 07054
> 
> Driving directions to Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC and product information about WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is provided. WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is a service created by Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC in  22 Sylvan Way , Parsippany, NJ, 07054. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS  is a service related to Vacation real estate time share exchange services; Vacation real estate timeshare services. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS service has not yet been made publicly available yet in the United States. The WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is in the category of  Insurance & Financial Services .
> 
> Get in contact with the owner, Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC of this WYNDHAM CLUB PASS, or visit them at their place of business in the map. Write a review about the service with this WYNDHAM CLUB PASS.
> 
> Or, contact the owner Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, LLC of the  WYNDHAM CLUB PASS trademark by filing a request to communicate with the Legal Correspondent   for licensing, use, and/or questions related to WYNDHAM CLUB PASS. The correspondent of the WYNDHAM CLUB PASS is  SUSAN L. CRANE of WYNDHAM WORLDWIDE CORPORATION, 22 SYLVAN WAY, PARSIPPANY, NJ 07054-3801 .
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...w=text&ei=zuRGUrnpM7LG4AOio4HIDg&ved=0CEUQtQM
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...w=text&ei=zuRGUrnpM7LG4AOio4HIDg&ved=0CEUQtQM
> 
> Just found someone in Wyndham Corporate that has heard of the program.  It is being set up as a seperate group and is under the Wyndham Hotel empire.



The may be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. In this case if the poster is correct Wyndham hotels doesn't know that Wyndham timeshares is using the same name for their program

What we are talking about is a simple in house exchange program for Wordmark and  Club Wyndham owners From the announcements on the two websites (Wyndham and Worldmark) there is nothing that involves the hotels


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## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> Per Wyndham Owner Care, the pass program is just a discount program for services at the resorts.  Smuglers Notch is the only one in the program at this time, ...



That would be the SmuggsPass, not the Wyndham Club Pass:

"SmuggsPass

As a CLUB WYNDHAM owner reserving your Smugglers' home through the Wyndham reservation system using your own points, you will receive a complimentary, non-transferable SmuggsPass gaining you access to Smugglers’ programs and facilities as well as a number of discounts. See below for more details. Guests using your CLUB WYNDHAM points may access Smugglers' programs and facilities under the same terms and conditions as the general public."


http://www.smuggs.com/pages/universal/wyndham/


Wyndham HQ appears to be suffering from mass "Pass" confusion.


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## snickers104

It would seem to me if Wyndham limits points resale owners to their home resorts that the whole system and the trust would come crashing down. Just my opinion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carl2591

*Wyndham Resort Maintenance Fees*



timeos2 said:


> The FAQ state that all OWNERS of Club / Club Points will be automatically in. That doesn't differentiate on how you became an owner. Am I reading it wrong?
> 
> In any case it certainly doesn't impact the ability of Wyndham Points owners - resale or retail - to use their points at any Wyndham Points resort. At worst it means they don't get the ADDITIONAL access to the Worldmark resorts that a retail buyer would (but, like VIP, the cost difference in retail vs resale doesn't make those additional few resorts / trades a good value - you are better off buying some Worldmark also resale). Saying this s limiting resale buyers to their HOME RESORT as has been reported about some sales weasels is a twisting of the facts. In fact they may be limited to their home SYSTEM - a completely different, and unchanged, thing. As usual it appears to be largely smoke and mirrors to confuse buyers / owners and make it seem that somehow overpriced retail points are somehow a better value than resale when in fact that is never likely to happen. Certainly not from this announcement or the existing VIP perk nonsense.
> 
> It also reenforces the fact that unless you are really gung ho on Wyndham and or Worldmark it makes more and more sense to rent them rather than own them for the truly best return on the dollar spent in those systems. Let the owners of the system do the work & figure it all out. As a renter you don't care if an out of system reservation can be rented or not (the FAQ's say no) you can just rent, usually at a significant discount, from whichever side has the resort you want. Easy. Meanwhile ownership just gets more convoluted and costly. Renting may be the best route for most now.




just another reason to avoid Wyndham in my book.. The more they try to weasel out of allowing owners to use points, no matter where they come from, the more is see them as the enemy. Too bad the higher up's are so self centered and morally corrupt. This could truly be a must have timeshare unit no matter how you got them.. Every day some poor fool signs up for a 25K unit that they have to give away some 5 or so years later for pennies on the dollar.  

All wyndham should be worried about is the paying of MF's by owners, not how to screw the owner every day.. dam shame


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## siesta

The sky is not falling, the point system will work as before.  Now, if you want to use your points across system, it will be a developer perk, and you pay an exchange fee too.  Considering wyndham owners far outnumber worldmark owners, and the fact that this window is 9 months as opposed to 10 month window within your system, I doubt we will see any difference in prime inventory. the fact is, as a wyndham owner, if I want a prime week, lets say holiday week, I would book 10 months anyways to ensure availability from whatever is left after ARP, a worldmark owner cant take that away from me.


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## vacationhopeful

vacationhopeful said:


> I guess they are trying to segregate the Resale owners to using their points only at their HOME RESORT --- good thing I like my Home Resorts and book at the 13 month ARP window. And if they wait too long, the under utilized resorts and lowest occupancy seasons will be the leftover available.
> 
> I guess I will be camping out in the winter at Kingsgate and Seawatch using my Resort Specials discounts ... they have indoor pools and I will just add a plastic palm tree.



Okay, been reading all the other opinions as to people's interpretations of this informative Wyndham "Press Release" (not!).

I don't know if they are going to be able to obtain an ABSOLUTE swap of Worldmark points and Wyndham points - after all these are separate and distinct points systems with no currency exchange factor. Then, later add in the Shell points system. 

Are they _trying to create _a benefit for the Developer purchase points? Definitely. 
Are they trying to get more money out of people for this exchange? Yes.
Can the Affiliated Resorts and their LIMITED inventory survive? Mostly not.
Will you have to do this with a phone call? In the old computer system -yes. Also, WHERE is this inventory going to be retrieved from: a joint phone call to Worldmark phone system or eventually, the Shell desk? Or is Inventory going to be added under the "new" 55 resorts catagories? 

*OR:* Will the affiliated resorts simply become the category with MORE resorts and more inventory that is LOADED up during an overnight SWAP (between the 2 or 3 systems) and those RESORTs will always require a "inter system" booking fee of the suggested (to start) price of $99. 

As the window is at the 9 month out mark, this eliminates the biggest distinction between CWP and CWA.

Now the NEXT (technical) ISSUE: Developer brought points and resale acquired points for accounting and usage. And then the cancelled point categories. I am NOT going to even suggest (nor would I recommend any knowledge persons get into) doing Corporate Wyndham's system analyst issue.


----------



## timeos2

snickers104 said:


> It would seem to me if Wyndham limits points resale owners to their home resorts that the whole system and the trust would come crashing down. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Despite the great desires of the drooling Weasels Wyndham can never change the rights of Wyndham Points owners to use the points system - they cannot force them to use of only their home base resort. They can use intimidation and misrepresentation to try to talk people into expensive and unnecessary purchases of retail points but as an informed buyer you can easily avoid that trap. 

The very basis of the Trust and membership in it is the right to use multiple resorts. They can never undo that.


----------



## timeos2

carl2591 said:


> just another reason to avoid Wyndham in my book.. The more they try to weasel out of allowing owners to use points, no matter where they come from, the more is see them as the enemy. Too bad the higher up's are so self centered and morally corrupt. This could truly be a must have timeshare unit no matter how you got them.. Every day some poor fool signs up for a 25K unit that they have to give away some 5 or so years later for pennies on the dollar.
> 
> All wyndham should be worried about is the paying of MF's by owners, not how to screw the owner every day.. dam shame



Sadly it does appear that it makes more and more sense to avoid the very good value of resale Wyndham - much like avoiding even the nice looking Wastegate resorts - as they continue to do everything they can to degrade the very product they sell at outrageous prices. How much better it would be if they would take steps to INCREASE resale values so they are much closer to retail THEN add a few perks to make even the incremental cost of retail have a true value and then everyone would win! 

But the short sighted, make mine now and scorched earth policies of Wyndham higher ups seems unable to do anything to benefit owners while continually lining their pockets based on lies, misrepresentations and valueless perks they dream up to attempt to give retail purchase a value they don't have and will be worthless on resale due to the very policies they tout as a reason to buy! 

Except for our friends that are mega-renters buying or owning Wyndham today is no longer the great value it has been. Now it is far easier and much less expensive to get the Wyndham / Worldmark's you want using readily available rentals. Look elsewhere for any ownerships you care to commit to.


----------



## Joe33426

timeos2 said:


> Despite the great desires of the drooling Weasels Wyndham can never change the rights of Wyndham Points owners to use the points system - they cannot force them to use of only their home base resort. They can use intimidation and misrepresentation to try to talk people into expensive and unnecessary purchases of retail points but as an informed buyer you can easily avoid that trap.
> 
> The very basis of the Trust and membership in it is the right to use multiple resorts. They can never undo that.



I so hope that this is correct, otherwise, I just bought a whole lot a crap.  

I've read and re-read the plan documents and I just don't know.  I'm not an attorney, but it seems like WYN has a lot of power to change just about anything from what I read.  Probably the thing holding them back is a class action lawsuit from resale point owners.  It would interesting to know the allocation of resale points versus developer points in the system.


----------



## learnalot

Joe33426 said:


> I so hope that this is correct, otherwise, I just bought a whole lot a crap.
> 
> I've read and re-read the plan documents and I just don't know.  I'm not an attorney, but it seems like WYN has a lot of power to change just about anything from what I read.  Probably the thing holding them back is a class action lawsuit from resale point owners.  It would interesting to know the allocation of resale points versus developer points in the system.



I disagree that they are holding back for fear of a lawsuit from resale owners. I think, as others have stated, that the thing that is holding them back is that the ability to use points for internal bookings is the essence of the system and to pull those points out of the trust would be to derail it.  But they CAN add *additional* perks to developer only points to try and encourage developer purchases without destabilizing the whole system.  I think that is all (if anything) that is happening here.


----------



## Joe33426

learnalot said:


> I disagree that they are holding back for fear of a lawsuit from resale owners. I think, as others have stated, that the thing that is holding them back is that the ability to use points for internal bookings is the essence of the system and to pull those points out of the trust would be to derail it.  But they CAN add *additional* perks to developer only points to try and encourage developer purchases without destabilizing the whole system.  I think that is all (if anything) that is happening here.



I'm not too worried about this Club Pass really changing anything for me.  My vacation time is determined years in advance and I can definitely book at 10 months out.

It's just that I'm curious about statements that the trust plan wouldn't allow Wyndham the right to restrict resale points to just home resorts.  Because everything I read suggests that Wyndham could do whatever the heck they want.  They control the trust, they control the HOAs, so if there something they don't like, just amend the documents.  They really don't even need to do that, because the current plan says that the directory is more important than the plan.  So all they have to do is change the directory.

Just because the decision would "derail" or mess up the system doesn't mean that they couldn't or won't.  Other major companies make stupid decisions too...


----------



## timeos2

Joe33426 said:


> I'm not too worried about this Club Pass really changing anything for me.  My vacation time is determined years in advance and I can definitely book at 10 months out.
> 
> It's just that I'm curious about statements that the trust plan wouldn't allow Wyndham the right to restrict resale points to just home resorts.  Because everything I read suggests that Wyndham could do whatever the heck they want.  They control the trust, they control the HOAs, so if there something they don't like, just amend the documents.  They really don't even need to do that, because the current plan says that the directory is more important than the plan.  So all they have to do is change the directory.
> 
> Just because the decision would "derail" or mess up the system doesn't mean that they couldn't or won't.  Other major companies make stupid decisions too...



It's not a matter of stupid decisions or intent. It cannot be done as the very basis of the sales and the trust IS the use of points.  Those that bought in under the sales disclosures filed by Wyndham (that's every retail sale ever made and by extension every resale as the base rights are exactly what is transferred in a resale) can never be told "you can only use your points for your home resort" (or any other change that impacts the base rights of ownership as in the disclosure). If there's one ting you can depend on as an owner of UDI Wyndham Points it is that you will always have the right to use your points for any Wyndham Points based resort. That cannot go away and any hint that it can be done is a blatant lie by your friendly Wyndham Weasel. Certainly not unheard of but never factual. Rest easy regarding the ability to always having the right to use your points to reserve Wyndham resorts.


----------



## learnalot

Joe33426 said:


> I'm not too worried about this Club Pass really changing anything for me.  My vacation time is determined years in advance and I can definitely book at 10 months out.
> 
> It's just that I'm curious about statements that the trust plan wouldn't allow Wyndham the right to restrict resale points to just home resorts.  Because everything I read suggests that Wyndham could do whatever the heck they want.  They control the trust, they control the HOAs, so if there something they don't like, just amend the documents.  They really don't even need to do that, because the current plan says that the directory is more important than the plan.  So all they have to do is change the directory.
> 
> Just because the decision would "derail" or mess up the system doesn't mean that they couldn't or won't.  Other major companies make stupid decisions too...



Fair enough, but I don't see them destabilizing their points based system for a number of reasons.  The points based flexibility is the essence of their system.  It runs because everyone's points are enrolled into the club system (trust).  There are fees involved which are rolled into the maintenance fees, but which represent significant revenue for Wyndham.  I was looking for the figures from last year.  I didn't find them, although I know I have seen them, but I did find this from their 2012 annual report to the shareholders (VOI stands for Vacation Ownership Interests):

_Our brands operate vacation ownership programs through which VOIs can be redeemed for vacations through points- or credits-based internal reservation systems that provide owners with flexibility as to resort location, length of stay, unit type and time of year. The reservation systems offer owners redemption opportunities for other travel and leisure products that may be offered from time to time, and the opportunity for owners to use our products for one or more vacations per year. Our programs allow us to market and sell our vacation ownership products in variable quantities and to offer to existing owners "upgrade" sales to supplement such owners' existing VOIs. This contrasts with the fixed quantity of the traditional fixed-week vacation ownership, which is primarily sold on a weekly interval basis._ p. 20 (p. 21 in the PDF)

Later on the same page:

_Club Wyndham uses a points-based internal reservation system called Club Wyndham Plus to provide owners with flexibility as to resort location, length of stay, unit type and time of year. With the launch of the Club Wyndham Plus trust in 1991, Wyndham Vacation Ownership became one of the first U.S. developers of vacation ownership properties to move from traditional, fixed-week vacation ownership to a points-based program. Both Club Wyndham Select and Club Wyndham Access utilize Club Wyndham Plus as the internal exchange program to expand owners' vacation options. Owners who participate in Club Wyndham Plus assign their use rights to a trust in exchange for the right to reserve in the internal reservation system. The number of points that an owner receives as a result of the assignment to the trust of the owner's use rights, and the number of points required to take a particular vacation, is set forth
on a published schedule and varies depending on the resort location, length of stay, unit type and time of year associated with the interests assigned to the trust or requested by the owner, as applicable. Participants in Club Wyndham Plus may choose the Club Wyndham resort properties, length of stay, unit types and times of year, depending on the number of points to which they are entitled and the number of points required to take the vacations of their preference. Participants may redeem their points not only for resort stays, but also for other travel and leisure products that may be offered from time to time. Owners of vacation points are able to borrow vacation points from the next year._ 

As I said, the points based trust IS the very essence of their system.  They will not jeopardize the functionality of that basic structure by attempting to segregate the points.  But the Wyndham Pass stuff, including restricting access to the Wyndham Pass inventory to developer purchased points, is consistent with their move toward increased use of a fee for service model.  From page 3 of the annual report (bolding added):

_Our mission is to increase shareholder value by being the leader in travel accommodations and welcoming our guests to iconic brands and vacation destinations through our signature “Count On Me!” service. Our strategies to achieve these objectives are to:
• Increase market share by delivering exceptional customer service;
• Grow cash flow and operating margins through superior execution in all of our businesses;
• *Rebalance the Wyndham Worldwide portfolio to emphasize our fee-for-service business models;*
• Attract, retain and develop human capital across our organization; and
• Support and promote Wyndham Green and Wyndham Diversity initiatives._


----------



## massvacationer

IMHO

This is a just an additional exchange feature - much like the ability to use RCI, that we all now have.  

It will not affect owners current use rights and ability to reserve within their own systems (Club Wyndham or Worldmark)

I think we are making bid deal out of nothing. 

So what if it is only to be used by retail buyers ? - it sounds like a marginal benefit anyway.


----------



## ronparise

massvacationer said:


> IMHO
> 
> This is a just an additional exchange feature - much like the ability to use RCI, that we all now have.
> 
> It will not affect owners current use rights and ability to reserve within their own systems (Club Wyndham or Worldmark)
> 
> I think we are making bid deal out of nothing.
> 
> So what if it is only to be used by retail buyers ? - it sounds like a marginal benefit anyway.



Exactly right


----------



## learnalot

massvacationer said:


> IMHO
> 
> This is a just an additional exchange feature - much like the ability to use RCI, that we all now have.
> 
> It will not affect owners current use rights and ability to reserve within their own systems (Club Wyndham or Worldmark)
> 
> I think we are making bid deal out of nothing.
> 
> So what if it is only to be used by retail buyers ? - it sounds like a marginal benefit anyway.



I agree that it is essentially a non-event, as I wrote in post #39:

_...they CAN add additional perks to developer only points to try and encourage developer purchases without destabilizing the whole system. I think that is all (if anything) that is happening here._

The post I wrote after that (42) quoting the annual report was just to back that up with something more than my opinion - for those who still seemed to believe that the sky might be falling.


----------



## PeterS

ronparise said:


> Sorry I don't see that the hotels were mentioned at all. This seems to me to be all timeshare. Wyndham and Worldmark for now but I bet Shell will come in later



I keep getting caught up on the line...

"Essentially, it will give CLUB WYNDHAM owners seamless access to more than 55 Wyndham resorts, expanding your ability to travel to unique destinations across the country."

What are the 55 Wyndham Resorts? If they are not Club Wyndham or Worldmark (they got a similiar notice)?

I did a search on  the Wyndham Resorts and got a hit on Wyndham hotels... they have a series of resorts that neither Club Wyndham or Worldmark can get access to directly with their points...

I agree this is probably a big non event as I don't think it will change what we have already but it would be great for their sales arm to be able to include some of the resorts in the Wyndham hotel chain...

My main idea is to figure out the 55 resorts... 

If Club Wyndham and Worldmark owners (who presently can interchange) are both being promised 55 new resorts to exchange into, and Shell isn't included... where do the 55 resorts come from if not from the Wyndham hotel group?

Pete


----------



## vacationhopeful

PeterS said:


> ...If Club Wyndham and Worldmark owners (who presently can interchange) are both being promised 55 new resorts to exchange into, and Shell isn't included... where do the 55 resorts come from if not from the Wyndham hotel group?
> 
> Pete



Not all Worldmark resorts are "affiliated resorts" with CWP/CWA booking access. And vice versa. That is where the magically 55 resort number comes from.


----------



## kwindham

vacationhopeful said:


> I guess they are trying to segregate the Resale owners to using their points only at their HOME RESORT --- good thing I like my Home Resorts and book at the 13 month ARP window. And if they wait too long, the under utilized resorts and lowest occupancy seasons will be the leftover available.
> 
> I guess I will be camping out in the winter at Kingsgate and Seawatch using my Resort Specials discounts ... they have indoor pools and I will just add a plastic palm tree.



The visual that pops into my head is to funny!!!

:rofl::hysterical::rofl::hysterical::rofl:


----------



## vacationhopeful

kwindham said:


> The visual that pops into my head is to funny!!!
> 
> :rofl::hysterical::rofl::hysterical::rofl:



A blow up plastic palm tree!


----------



## rhonda

massvacationer said:


> I think we are making bid deal out of nothing.


Except, perhaps, for worry over losing features I already have? 

As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event.  My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI.  I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.  

It sounds like the new Pass might (just might) replace my affiliated booking process with a more expensive, possibly less flexible, exchange process.  Oh well, timeshare giveth and timeshare taketh away, I suppose.


----------



## CO skier

PeterS said:


> My main idea is to figure out the 55 resorts...



It's not "55 resorts," it's "more than 55 resorts."

Wyndham could open up 57 resorts in each system, or they could open 60 resorts in WorldMark and 100 resorts in Club Wyndham, or they could open up both systems in their entirety.

In the Club Wyndham system, Wyndham has the most control over the Club Wyndham Access inventory, so I agree with the idea that WorldMark owners will gain access to all the CWA resorts, and Wyndham owners will gain access to the WorldMark resorts that are not already shared resorts.  Wyndham Club Pass is a Club-to-Club exchange.  Wyndham hotels will have no part in this new program.

No one has speculated on the points/credits required for these exchanges.  The current, limited exchanges between the systems come at a significant points/credits premium versus what owners in the respective systems can reserve the various resorts.  The $99 exchange fee is just the beginning for Wyndham's profits.  The points/credits premium is where more significant profits will be.


----------



## CO skier

rhonda said:


> Except, perhaps, for worry over losing features I already have?
> 
> As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event.  My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI.  I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.
> 
> It sounds like the new Pass might (just might) replace my affiliated booking process with a more expensive, possibly less flexible, exchange process.  Oh well, timeshare giveth and timeshare taketh away, I suppose.



You could now just rent your Wyndham Pagosa reservation from an owner, and possibly pay less than what you were paying through Monday Madness.


----------



## ronparise

PeterS said:


> I keep getting caught up on the line...
> 
> "Essentially, it will give CLUB WYNDHAM owners seamless access to more than 55 Wyndham resorts, expanding your ability to travel to unique destinations across the country."
> 
> What are the 55 Wyndham Resorts? If they are not Club Wyndham or Worldmark (they got a similiar notice)?
> 
> I did a search on  the Wyndham Resorts and got a hit on Wyndham hotels... they have a series of resorts that neither Club Wyndham or Worldmark can get access to directly with their points...
> 
> I agree this is probably a big non event as I don't think it will change what we have already but it would be great for their sales arm to be able to include some of the resorts in the Wyndham hotel chain...
> 
> My main idea is to figure out the 55 resorts...
> 
> If Club Wyndham and Worldmark owners (who presently can interchange) are both being promised 55 new resorts to exchange into, and Shell isn't included... where do the 55 resorts come from if not from the Wyndham hotel group?
> 
> Pete



I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa


_

"WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."
_

The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners

What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club  Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.


----------



## PeterS

ronparise said:


> I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa
> 
> 
> _
> 
> "WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."
> _
> 
> The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners
> 
> What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club  Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.



Thanks for posting the info from the Worldmark site.

This is more clear than the Wyndham notice.
Also I thought there was a much higher overlap in the two systems in the present inter-exchange. If there is truly 55 or more resorts in each system that are presently not shared, then this explains it.

Thanks,
Pete


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa
> 
> 
> _
> 
> "WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."
> _
> 
> The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners
> 
> What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club  Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.



After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points.  I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points.  I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.



Unless of course they want to use those points for ARP. It should have little to no effect on availability.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points.  I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.



What do you see that I don't to cause that reaction, and why do you think your points will be any safer than not?


----------



## alwysonvac

I apologize if this was already stated....I'm still catching up on this news  

Maybe I'm missing something but this doesn't seem fair...* 

Why is this active at the 9 month mark?* That's the first time WorldMark owners can book less than a full week during red season. It's my understanding that Wyndam owners are able to reserve 3 and 4 night stays  before the 9 month mark.

*Shouldn't WorldMark owners have 1st priority to book WorldMark resorts for less than a full week in red season before the flood gates are opened up to Wyndham owners *


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> What do you see that I don't to cause that reaction, and why do you think your points will be any safer than not?


..

For my particular case, I primarily use points at Old Town Alexandria, National Harbor, Atlantic City, and Shawnee Village.  My stays are typically Friday and Saturday nights.  Availabilty for weekends that I might use took a nose dive this year and the unit upgrade to more bedrooms also took a dive.  I believe this was do to the flooding of points into the system that resulted in the year usage changes.  If this change is between Wyndham Club plus and Worldmark or both clubs and the hotel group, or between other Wyndham resorts that are not part of the two primary clubs identified and the two that are being discussed, then the net loser will be the VIP members with short term discounts as their primary usage.

Since things have changed for me, it is not really important that I use Wyndham next year.  Maybe I am just a little over concerned that I had to pay full rate for the first time in many years for what used to be an easy resort to get in off season.

I could be very wrong about this and Worldmark may be the big loser.

PS  do not go to Windows 8 unless you need to.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> ..
> 
> For my particular case, I primarily use points at Old Town Alexandria, National Harbor, Atlantic City, and Shawnee Village.  My stays are typically Friday and Saturday nights.  Availabilty for weekends that I might use took a nose dive this year and the unit upgrade to more bedrooms also took a dive.  I believe this was do to the flooding of points into the system that resulted in the year usage changes.  If this change is between Wyndham Club plus and Worldmark or both clubs and the hotel group, or between other Wyndham resorts that are not part of the two primary clubs identified and the two that are being discussed, then the net loser will be the VIP members with short term discounts as their primary usage.
> 
> Since things have changed for me, it is not really important that I use Wyndham next year.  Maybe I am just a little over concerned that I had to pay full rate for the first time in many years for what used to be an easy resort to get in off season.
> 
> I could be very wrong about this and Worldmark may be the big loser.
> 
> PS  do not go to Windows 8 unless you need to.



If I understand the problem you see, its that availability will dry up because of the increased demand placed on the system by Worldmark owners,  before you can get your 50% discount and upgrades.  

It seems to me  putting your points into the points credit pool wont solve the problem. It just gives you an opportunity to sit it out for a year or so until the novelty fades and things get back to normal

Read the post above.. A Worldmark owner  is afraid availability in their system will dry up before they can make red season short stay reservations, because of the demand placed on the system by Wyndham owners. 

I think you are both afraid for nothing. In your case the only availability at 60 days now is stuff most other Wyndham owners dont want anyway. The good stuff is sucked up early as it is. My feeling is that if Wyndham owners dont want it Worldmark owners wont either.. And when you consider most Worldmark owners live on the West coast.  I just dont see much demand from them. None of the resorts you mentioned are within driving distance from the homes of most of the Worldmark owners.

And I dont think the Worldmark people have anything to fear either. Worst case they might have to get up early right at 9 months to make their short stay reservations and compete with the Wyndham folks. But the fact is that the good stuff will already be reserved as week long stays. before 9 months

I think we have to remember the conventional advice that If you cant plan ahead for your vacations, Timeshares may not be right for you. The more things change the more that advice stays the same. 


And by the way...If I was writing this 6 months ago, Id agree with you re Windows 8. My old xp machine blew up and I bought a new lap...Its taking some getting used to but I hardly miss xp anymore....I felt the same way when I went from Windows 98 to XP too.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points.  I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.





alwysonvac said:


> *Shouldn't WorldMark owners have 1st priority to book WorldMark resorts for less than a full week in red season before the flood gates are opened up to Wyndham owners *



It seems there is an unreasonable fear of "outside" owners "flooding" the other's system.  Think about it.  WorldMark is a West Coast system; Wyndham is primarily an East Coast system.  There are significant costs for a family just to travel between systems.  Then there is the $99 exchange fee.  Then there is the premium credits/points cost associated with the exchange.  Where and when will this "flood" of exchanges be occurring?

Perhaps a very few WorldMark owners may want to exchange into Bonnett Creek in October, and some Wyndham owners want to exchange into West Yellowstone in October.  Neither resort is particularly busy at this time.  Using Las Vegas or Branson as additional examples, it will be considerably cheaper for any owners to stay within their system for these destinations than exchanging through Wyndham Club Pass.  This will be the story throughout either system for this program.

With the facts that 1) the popular reservations in either system are booked up long before 9 months, 2) travel costs between the two systems add to the exchange, 3) costs for the internal exchange both in the $99 fee and credits/points, 4) exchanges are limited to developer only credits/points, so resale buyer cannot participate, it should be obvious that the participation rate from developer owners will be minimal -- not a "flood," not even a trickle, probably only a tinkle. 

Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points.  Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent.  Why is this so hard to comprehend?


----------



## CO skier

rhonda said:


> As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event.  My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI.  I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.



Wouldn't it be interesting for WorldMark owners if Wyndham has so many developer credits that they need to cover, that all the new and current Wydham resorts appear at some point on Monday Madness?

There is nothing in the news release that indicates it can't happen.

Why is there always so much automatic negativity when it comes to Wyndham and WorldMark?


----------



## benyu2010

CO skier said:


> Why is there always so much automatic negativity when it comes to Wyndham and WorldMark?



Don't know...

I agreed with Ron's opinions on this whole upcoming inter-club exchange program for non-prime inventory. It's mostly a non-event and marginal benefits for developer-purchased credits/points ONLY. It is no different than RCI, II or other exchange programs owners currently utilizing. The best part is it is a free add-on perk for developer benefits without significant impact to the availability of the system. Remember, it is an exchange program, so it gotta be demand neutral. The overall pool of eligible owner is only a portion of overall ownership and possibility of utilizing such program is even much smaller. 

The only big questions remain to be seen is its impact of availability for Wyndham VIP owners. This exchange program completely overlaps TEN, currently available to Worldmark owner. So, it won't be surprised to see change of availability of TEN and itself.



> If you elect to exchange, there will be a *minimal transaction fee* of $99 per reservation.



In the Worldmark letter, it states MINIMAL is $99 per reservation...It will probably generate some nice fee-for-service revenue from developer purchased owners, with little impact to either program at all. Remember, only developer purchased pt/credit may participate, so most of us HERE shall neither see any benefit, nor any impact at all...Back to the quoted question, don't know...


----------



## pacodemountainside

WWW was  "involved" with some  197 resorts at 12/31/2012

WVO ..................  79

WorldMart ............ 98 

Shell.....................20

Total....................197


6 are  shared with WorldMart.

New York, Chicago and Margaretville  are coming on line in 2013 making big 200.

Desert Blue is scheduled for 2014.


Avon???


After that it pretty much looks like WAAMing

This appears to me  like smoke  and mirrors to increase Wyndham  profits and discourage resales, not enhance one's ownership!

It is also interesting to note total WVO ownership  remained about 523K from 2011  to 2012 indicating foreclosures, deed backs,   etc ., about equaled  additional sales.


 Not a good sign when  no net gain in customers/owners.  Have to "milk" the olde ones.

WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP

Wyndham Vacation Ownership markets and sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its Club Wyndham brand. Club Wyndham markets and sells VOIs that entitle an owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year. 

As of December 31, 2012, over 523,000 owners held interests in Club Wyndham resort properties which are located primarily in the U.S. and ****consisted of 79 resorts (six of which are shared with WorldMark by Wyndham) that represented approximately 13,500 units. ***********


WORLDMARK BY WYNDHAM


Wyndham Vacation Ownership also markets and sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific brands. WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific sell VOIs that entitle an owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year.

After Wyndham Vacation Ownership develops or acquires resorts, it conveys the resorts to WorldMark, The Club or WorldMark South Pacific Club, which we refer to collectively as the Clubs. In exchange for the conveyances, the WorldMark by Wyndham or Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific brands receive the exclusive rights to sell the vacation credits associated with the conveyed resorts and to receive the proceeds from the sales of the vacation credits. VOIs sold by WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific represent credits in the Clubs which entitles the owner of the credits to reserve units at the resorts that are owned and operated by the Clubs. Although vacation credits do not constitute deeded interests in real estate, vacation credits are regulated in most jurisdictions by the same agency that regulates VOIs evidenced by deeded interests in real estate. As of December 31, 2012, approximately 286,000 owners held vacation credits in the Clubs.



*********WorldMark by Wyndham had 98 resorts (six of which are shared with Club Wyndham Resorts) ********representing 7,600 units as of December 31, 2012 which are located primarily in the Western U.S., Canada, Mexico and the South Pacific. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific accounted for 24 resorts and approximately 1,000 units of WorldMark by Wyndham's resort total.

Owners of vacation credits can make reservations through the Clubs, or may elect to join and exchange their VOIs through Wyndham's vacation exchange business, RCI, or other third-party international exchange companies.

The resorts in which WorldMark by Wyndham markets and sells vacation credits are primarily drive-to resorts. The majority of WorldMark by Wyndham resorts are affiliated with Wyndham Worldwide's vacation exchange subsidiary, RCI. Of WorldMark by Wyndham's 98 resorts, 71% have been awarded designations of an RCI Gold Crown Resort winner or an RCI Silver Crown Resort winner.

SHELL VACATIONS CLUB

Wyndham Vacation Ownership has expanded its fee-for-service property management business with its acquisition of Shell Vacations Club during 2012. Wyndham Vacation Ownership has assumed the property management operations at ******20 Shell Vacations Club resorts***** representing 2,300 units as of December 31, 2012, which are primarily located in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Texas, Nevada, Oregon, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Canada.

Additionally, Shell Vacations Club sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its Shell Vacations Club brand. Shell Vacations Club sells VOIs that entitle and owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year. After Wyndham Vacation Ownership finishes development of a Shell resort, it conveys the resort to Shell Vacations Club. In exchange for the conveyances, the Shell Vacations Club brand receives the exclusive rights to sell the vacation points associated with the conveyed resort and to receive the proceeds from the sale of the vacation points. VOIs sold by Shell Vacations Club entitle the owner of the points the rights in various timeshare resorts developed by Shell Vacations through an internal exchange reservation system or, alternatively, exchange its points through external exchange programs or for other products and services offered by Shell Vacations Club. As of December 31, 2012, approximately 105,000 owners held vacation points in the Shell Vacations Club.


----------



## timeos2

CO skier said:


> Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points.  Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent.  Why is this so hard to comprehend?




Because Wyndham knows there is no real value to retail and they are doing all they can to simply confuse and depress the resale market so the uninformed think that somehow it makes sense to overpay for retail. In reality Wyndham retail is one of the worst values in timeshare while Wyndham resale Points are still one of the best values in timeshare ownership. 

Don't be fooled. (and yes, avoid Windows 8)


----------



## ronparise

timeos2 said:


> Because Wyndham knows there is no real value to retail and they are doing all they can to simply confuse and depress the resale market so the uninformed think that somehow it makes sense to overpay for retail. In reality Wyndham retail is one of the worst values in timeshare while Wyndham resale Points are still one of the best values in timeshare ownership.
> 
> Don't be fooled. (and yes, avoid Windows 8)



John

not that it makes any difference to you, since you dont own Wyndham any more and you have no plans to buy in. But for what its worth I dont see what Wyndham has done to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, nor can I think of anything that they can do to increase the value. short of becoming a buyer themselves.

I see their relationship with the secondary market as one of "benign neglect"  They are not doing anything to increase the value and they are not doing anything to decrease the value. The secondary market is what it is without regard for what Wyndham does on the retail side. If anything, the higher they raise their prices, the better the resale stuff ought to look to a prospective buyer

I would compare it to the used car market. It doesnt matter what Ford is charging for a new SUV or what extras they are including with a purchase or what the financing terms are to me. My nearly 20 year old  Ford Explorer is still worth nearly nothing on the secondary market. It doesnt matter that it provides excellent trouble free transportation for me.

I think what gives a timeshare value on the secondary market are the rents at comparable rental properties. If my mf is less than whats being charged for comparable rentals, then my timeshare has value. How much value depends on the spread. And Wyndham  controls only one side of that equation

By the way, If Wyndham is doing everything to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, how do you explain the recent uptick in prices. Did Wyndham cause that to happen?  I dont think so, and I dont think they do anything to bring priced down either. 

Now if Wyndham would get proactive and start buying back and reselling their points they could set the price...but they arent doing that..... yet...


----------



## timeos2

ronparise said:


> John
> 
> not that it makes any difference to you, since you dont own Wyndham any more and you have no plans to buy in. But for what its worth I dont see what Wyndham has done to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, nor can I think of anything that they can do to increase the value. short of becoming a buyer themselves.
> 
> I see their relationship with the secondary market as one of "benign neglect"  They are not doing anything to increase the value and they are not doing anything to decrease the value. The secondary market is what it is without regard for what Wyndham does on the retail side. If anything, the higher they raise their prices, the better the resale stuff ought to look to a prospective buyer



The damage they did, and I'm still amazed they were able to do it, was the years of pounding into buyers heads that somehow resale points weren't "as good" as retail ones. The plan fact that they had to be exactly the same and the only differences could be things sales funded and operated separate from the actual intrinsic points themselves, and which therefore could be dropped at any time and/or prohibited from transferring upon resale, also meant that the "value" you paid tens of thousands of dollars to obtain at retail was lost as soon as you had to sell. Your retail points were going to  be worth the exact same <.01 point as any other resale point wold be. But you (the retail buyer not you Ron) paid $.10-.15 per point retail. The value of the subsidized perks is not likely to ever approach the cost paid. 

They torpedoed the resale value even as they sold overpriced retail points - quite a feat!  Of course they could at any time help the resale value by instituting buy backs at even greatly reduced value like $.03 per point - that would be a godsend to most owners - and they won't even do that. They purposely denigrate resale to hold value down and that is reason enough to never by a point at retail from that group. 

What they did do is create one of the great values in all of timeshare if you stick strictly with resale points. The actual system they created is a very good one, they have some unique and extremely desirable locations and the annual fees while not the lowest are not bad among the "names" - it is only retail sales and overall customer service where they fall woefully short. You can more or less avoid those areas as an owner and have a great vacation system in the Wyndham Points system.    

They have also flooded the market with so much inventory that combined  with the  retail perks (or even better grandfathered resale perks) high point owners such as you can actually afford to offer extremely  good deals on rentals and still make money over the annual fees. Users can decide to own resale or just rent and either way get great value from Wyndham and enjoy some great resorts / locations on the cheap. It remains one of the great overall values in all of timeshare if you own resale or rent your use.  We enjoyed our 20+ years as owners and are enjoying the new rental bonanza even more as ex-owners!

For all owners sake I actually hope that Wyndham wises up and decides to become active in resales. An increase in floor price supported by Wyndham could be a really great thing long term. I just got tired of waiting for them to act. I still think they will jump in at some point.


----------



## Bigrob

timeos2 said:


> For all owners sake I actually hope that Wyndham wises up and decides to become active in resales. An increase in floor price supported by Wyndham could be a really great thing long term. I just got tired of waiting for them to act. I still think they will jump in at some point.



And if they DO... those who acted in advance will be sitting pretty. I suppose one could argue that their current offer of 20 cents on the dollar for all retail points they sell now that have "Pathways" attached could in future years make for a tighter resale market, if the floor of value is 20 percent. I guess it remains to be seen if Pathways ends up being more like useless or even damaging ROFR versus providing a true floor for current retail buyers.

I don't think you'll see anything more aggressive than what they've already done... offering OTPs and some converted fixed weeks via corporate direct. But I do think there is an opportunity to capture value through buyback programs and reselling (at a premium to resale)... I just think they view it as too cannibalistic. But who knows...


----------



## rleigh

rhonda said:


> Except, perhaps, for worry over losing features I already have?
> 
> As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event.  My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI.  I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.
> 
> It sounds like the new Pass might (just might) replace my affiliated booking process with a more expensive, possibly less flexible, exchange process.  Oh well, timeshare giveth and timeshare taketh away, I suppose.




Are you talking about the Wydham resorts WM owners currently can access just as they would WM? Yes, that was my concern too.

But someone over at WMO said these were part of the TEN agreement and as long as you bought before 11/05/2006 or retail after that date, those are grandfathered in.

I would hate to have to pay an extra 99, might as well go through RCI or II. I know the specific TEN agreemnt resorts come and go but it's so nice having that option. I used the Arkansas one a few years ago and it's not available now, but it was so nice and helpful having that option!

It doesn't sound like very many WM owners have this same concern, but it's a pretty big deal to me! But as you said, they give, they take.


----------



## rhonda

CO skier said:


> Wouldn't it be interesting for WorldMark owners if Wyndham has so many developer credits that they need to cover, that all the new and current Wydham resorts appear at some point on Monday Madness?
> 
> There is nothing in the news release that indicates it can't happen.


Two particular aspects of the FAQs on the WM side give me reason to think that inventory offered through the new relationship won't appear as Monday Madness:



> 6. Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program? Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by *using their developer purchased credits/points.*





> 12. May I rent inventory that I booked through WYNDHAM Club Pass?
> No. *Inventory booked via WYNDHAM Club Pass cannot be rented.*





rleigh said:


> Are you talking about the Wydham resorts WM owners currently can access just as they would WM? Yes, that was my concern too.


Yes, exactly.


----------



## CO skier

rhonda said:


> Two particular aspects of the FAQs on the WM side give me reason to think that inventory offered through the new relationship won't appear as Monday Madness:





> 6.  Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program?
> 
> Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by *using their developer purchased credits/points*.


Isn't "using their developer purchased credits/points" the way the Affiliates work in WorldMark now; i.e., only TravelShare and WM+A credits (but not resale credits) can be used to reserve at Affiliates locations?

It is not clear why you think using developer credits would necessarily eliminate Pagosa Springs from any future Monday Madness.  What is different in the new program versus the way things work today?  





> 12.  May I rent inventory that I booked through WYNDHAM Club Pass?
> 
> No. *Inventory booked via WYNDHAM Club Pass cannot be rented*.


Just as with II and RCI exchanges, exchanges in the Wyndham Club Pass cannot be rented to others.  It is not clear why you think this would eliminate Pagosa Springs from any future Monday Madness.

WorldMark may continue the Affiliated Rental program at $0.15/credit with 18 resorts, or they may discontinue it, or it may be expanded to include the current 18 resorts plus the new Wyndham resorts in the program.  Whatever occurs, it will have nothing to do with guideline #12.


----------



## alwysonvac

CO skier said:


> It seems there is an unreasonable fear of "outside" owners "flooding" the other's system.  Think about it.  WorldMark is a West Coast system; Wyndham is primarily an East Coast system.  There are significant costs for a family just to travel between systems.  Then there is the $99 exchange fee.  Then there is the premium credits/points cost associated with the exchange.  Where and when will this "flood" of exchanges be occurring?



I shouldn’t have used the word “flood”.
*I simply believe owners should have priority access before non-owners.*

Think about this… If WorldMark and Wyndham owners were only interested in traveling exclusively in the East or West there would be no need for these systems to offer other options such as RCI, Cruise Exchanges, and other travel options.

Yes, I agree that some families probably bought because they wanted something they can drive to (vs fly to). However I won’t assume all families are vacationing this way. I'm a WorldMark owner who lives on the East Coast and own a timeshare in California and Hawaii and I visit both.  And the $99 exchange is still lower than RCI exchange fee that folks are paying today. Yes, there will be a premium credits/point cost associated with the exchange but we don’t see that stopping WM folks from booking the higher point WorldMark resorts like Anaheim.   



> Perhaps a very few WorldMark owners may want to exchange into Bonnett Creek in October, and some Wyndham owners want to exchange into West Yellowstone in October.  Neither resort is particularly busy at this time.  Using Las Vegas or Branson as additional examples, it will be considerably cheaper for any owners to stay within their system for these destinations than exchanging through Wyndham Club Pass.  This will be the story throughout either system for this program.


My comment was specifically concerning red season. I agree with you that for overlapping destinations most folks will probably book within their system unless there are unique or better resort features/amenties with the other system.  



> With the facts that 1) the popular reservations in either system are booked up long before 9 months, 2) travel costs between the two systems add to the exchange, 3) costs for the internal exchange both in the $99 fee and credits/points, 4) exchanges are limited to developer only credits/points, so resale buyer cannot participate, it should be obvious that the participation rate from developer owners will be minimal -- not a "flood," not even a trickle, probably only a tinkle.
> 
> Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points.  Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent.  Why is this so hard to comprehend?



Yes, place like West Yellowstone will be booked up long before but not all popular reservations fall into this category. Anaheim is an example where I won’t mind adding a couple of nights at the end or beginning of my week stay somewhere else in CA. I just don’t want more competition.

And some folks actually like trying something new/different. Every resale started off as a developer purchase. Is there some type of statistics  indcating over 75% of the current owners at Wyndham and WorldMark are resale owners which would suggest a "tinkle"?


----------



## ronparise

alwysonvac said:


> I just don’t want more competition.......
> 
> Every resale started off as a developer purchase. Is there some type of statistics  indcating over 75% of the current owners at Wyndham and WorldMark are resale owners which would suggest a "tinkle"?



I think what you are missing is that there cannot be any Wyndham owners competing with you for a Worldmark reservation, unless there is a Worldmark owner competing with me for a Wyndham reservation...its an exchange program, remember?     There may be a different group of people that you have to compete with, but there will be the same number of people competing.

What difference does it make if Joe Worldmark wants the same reservation as you do, or Jane Wyndham.? .either way you have competition

Regarding the ratio of resale to retail owners, I agree that every resale point was originally purchased directly from Wyndham, but its also important to understand every retail point will ultimately be sold to a resale buyer. I dont know the numbers, but Id be willing to bet that there are more sales made on ebay every day than in the Wyndham sales rooms. 25/75 seems about right to me...but its just a guess


----------



## cotraveller

At this point it is all speculation.  Until the details of the program are announced everything is just a guess at how it will work.  From my view onthe WorldMark side some questions that will be of interest are:


Will this new program replace the current Exchange Network (TEN) which allows cross booking between the two systems?
Will WorldMark owners who purchased before November, 2006 be grandfathered in as they are now, or will it be available only to owners who purchased from the developer no matter when they purchased?
Will partial week bookings be allowed as they are now or will it be full weeks only?
Will Bonus Time be available under the new program as it is now under the current Exchange Network?
Will Wyndham resorts appear on the WorldMark Monday Madness Specials?
Where will the initial inventory come from before any exchanges are made?
More I'm sure but that's enough for now

We will know by next June when the program goes live.  Until then we can only guess.


----------



## sparty

cotraveller said:


> At this point it is all speculation.  Until the details of the program are announced everything is just a guess at how it will work.  From my view onthe WorldMark side some questions that will be of interest are:
> 
> 
> Will this new program replace the current Exchange Network (TEN) which allows cross booking between the two systems?
> Will WorldMark owners who purchased before November, 2006 be grandfathered in as they are now, or will it be available only to owners who purchased from the developer no matter when they purchased?
> Will partial week bookings be allowed as they are now or will it be full weeks only?
> Will Bonus Time be available under the new program as it is now under the current Exchange Network?
> Will Wyndham resorts appear on the WorldMark Monday Madness Specials?
> Where will the initial inventory come from before any exchanges are made?
> More I'm sure but that's enough for now
> 
> We will know by next June when the program goes live.  Until then we can only guess.



To me it seems it's going full circle. Marriott copied the TRUST concept from Wyndham/Worldmark and now Wyndham/Worldmark is copying Marriott's legacy DC exhange program.

Based on this I would expect a grandfather clause similar to Marriott's June 2010 clause. Wyndham/Worldmark can make a lot of money off grandfather enrollment fees just like Marriott.

If Marriott and Wyndham get too much closer maybe they will merge


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## Xcalibur

sparty said:


> To me it seems it's going full circle. Marriott copied the TRUST concept from Wyndham/Worldmark and now Wyndham/Worldmark is copying Marriott's legacy DC exhange program.
> 
> Based on this I would expect a grandfather clause similar to Marriott's June 2010 clause. Wyndham/Worldmark can make a lot of money off grandfather enrollment fees just like Marriott.
> 
> If Marriott and Wyndham get too much closer maybe they will merge



not sure what the legacy DC exchange program is.  Based on what I can tell, I'm thinking it will be Wyndham timeshare owners getting access to worldmark, and vice versa.  the 9 month window would seem to appease the 10 month reservation window 'owners' would get, so owners of their respective timeshare systems would still get 'first dibs'.  

For the retail purchaser, this is obviously a bonus, albeit, a small one.  however, for the sales team, just one more reason to buy retail.  given the massive price differential between retail and resale, I think it is a good thing.  It's good and reasonable for the retail purchaser to get more perks, since they paid a heck of a lot more for it.  those who paid a buck (or whatever) for their timeshare and complain about access... I just don't get it. It couldn't cost that little to build the actual condo, so it is obvious that the resale buyer got a screaming bargain.  In an ideal world, the retail market and the resale market would not be that far apart, cost wise. 

And , IMHO, more retail purchases are what increase availability in various timeshares, and increase the potential # of new timeshares available.  So, it's an overall win for everyone (even Wyndham).  That is, if you can see the big picture.


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## vacationhopeful

Xcalibur said:


> .... It couldn't cost that little to build the actual condo, so it is obvious that the resale buyer got a screaming bargain.  In an ideal world, the retail market and the resale market would not be that far apart, cost wise.
> 
> And , IMHO, more retail purchases are what increase availability in various timeshares, and increase the potential # of new timeshares available.  So, it's an overall win for everyone (even Wyndham).  That is, if you can see the big picture.



*It is not the cost of the condo - the retail buyer PAID for that *(but less than 50% of their purchase price was the cost of the actual building) ... the *RESALE buyer is paying an OPTION to pay the MFs to support the operation *of the resort. The retail buyer SOLD his ownership at the BIG DISCOUNT to get rid of the ongoing MFs.

As for Club "PASS" - seems that a poster presented that the Affiliated Resorts in Club Wyndham Plus are being moved into Club Pass (only direct points can be used) with the $99 exchange fee? Who loses on this --- the retail buyer gets to contribute MORE MONEY to WVO bottom line. There has always been comments that their were too few units in the cross-over pool --- I know I never booked an "Affiliated Resort" unit. 

And I now have a decent collection of Shell Points --- in addition to my Developer Purchased Wyndham points ... will be interesting as to HOW they can count which pot the points come from?


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## pacodemountainside

Xcalibur said:


> ... I just don't get it. It couldn't cost that little to build the actual condo, so it is obvious that the resale buyer got a screaming bargain.  In an ideal world, the retail market and the resale market would not be that far apart, cost wise.
> 
> .



See below:


Wyndham's costs and profits circa 2012



Description..................................New Buyer.....Current Owner



Selling price in thousands....................$17K...............$22K

Brick, Stick and Mortar.........................20% .................20%

Selling................................................58......................32


Bad debts...........................................16......................12

Profit..................................... ..............6 .....................36


Source: Main Man at security analysts presentations and SEC 10K


The 58%  selling expense vs  around 5-6% on  a codo  adds no value what-so-ever and market reflects this plus glut since "developers" jumped on  TS  gravy train!.

Like that $1,500 vacuum  door to door  guy sells.  Gives you  what you paid  originally for trade-in. Yet Consumer Reports   found $400 units  were comparable.

It well established  hard sell tactics  can move   about anything  at outrageous  prices  like  Canadian gold  and uranium mines, oil wells, clunkers,  etc.


----------



## ronparise

Xcalibur said:


> not sure what the legacy DC exchange program is.  Based on what I can tell, I'm thinking it will be Wyndham timeshare owners getting access to worldmark, and vice versa.  the 9 month window would seem to appease the 10 month reservation window 'owners' would get, so owners of their respective timeshare systems would still get 'first dibs'.
> 
> For the retail purchaser, this is obviously a bonus, albeit, a small one.  however, for the sales team, just one more reason to buy retail.  given the massive price differential between retail and resale, I think it is a good thing.  It's good and reasonable for the retail purchaser to get more perks, since they paid a heck of a lot more for it.  those who paid a buck (or whatever) for their timeshare and complain about access... I just don't get it. It couldn't cost that little to build the actual condo, so it is obvious that the resale buyer got a screaming bargain.  In an ideal world, the retail market and the resale market would not be that far apart, cost wise.
> 
> And , IMHO, more retail purchases are what increase availability in various timeshares, and increase the potential # of new timeshares available.  So, it's an overall win for everyone (even Wyndham).  That is, if you can see the big picture.



I didnt see this post in Oct so in the spirit of better late than never

I agree in an ideal world, resale timeshares  and retail timeshares would be closer in price but its the retail stuff that needs to come down , not the otherway around.. Resale  is much closer to "real value" than retail


And I agree that we need the new buyers to keep our club growing but the club needs us resale buyers too. and the reason Wyndhan has a VIP program, and now Club Pass is to give their salesman something to make that inflated retail purchase price look like its worth it.


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## Cdn Gal

Thank you Tuggers for all of the information!  It really has been helpful in my understanding of this topic!  I like to have an insight as to various topics before we attend our owners update.  You guys are the best!!


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## lcml11

*HI apparently joins Club Wyndham Pass*

The point was made in post number 4 below.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204605

Wyndham Reservations is confirming that three of the HI resorts are joining Club Wyndham Pass.

I guess the moral of the story is you want HI through Wyndham get it when it becomes available or it might not be there.


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## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> The point was made in post number 4 below.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204605
> 
> Wyndham Reservations is confirming that three of the HI resorts are joining Club Wyndham Pass.
> 
> I guess the moral of the story is you want HI through Wyndham get it when it becomes available or it might not be there.



Again -- that poster was offering a POSSIBLE reason along with 3 or 4 other possible reasons which had NOTHING to do with Wyndham Vacations Resort in any format.

Your using a POSSIBLE cause to imply at REALITY in some undefined Wyndham possibility that is affecting ALL the Hawaii II and RCI exchange inventory is lunacy and irresponsible ... 

Quoting another THREAD incorrectly does not PROVE your HOPEFUL point - to slam resale owners who PAY THE EXACT SAME MAINTENANCE FEES as you do - and should not participate in the Wyndham Vacation properties the same as you. 

Resale Owners are NOT second class citizens. If they were, you should be DEMANDING that you sleep in units which had not ever been slept in by a resale family, not owned by any FIXED WEEK resale owner, resale guests have no pools or other resort amenities, and the resale scum have their own check in desk in the basement. 

And remember, YOUR special VIP Platinum level can go away at any time, too. Only the original purchaser (you inherited your status) has VIP status --- also, those VIP benefits can and have changed at the WHIM of WVO. *And that is FACT and not a rumor -- VIP benefits have decreased and been routinely lessened..... *


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Again -- that poster was offering a POSSIBLE reason along with 3 or 4 other possible reasons which had NOTHING to do with Wyndham Vacations Resort in any format.
> 
> Your using a POSSIBLE cause to imply at REALITY in some undefined Wyndham possibility that is affecting ALL the Hawaii II and RCI exchange inventory is lunacy and irresponsible ...
> 
> Quoting another THREAD incorrectly does not PROVE your HOPEFUL point - to slam resale owners who PAY THE EXACT SAME MAINTENANCE FEES as you do - and should not participate in the Wyndham Vacation properties the same as you.
> 
> Resale Owners are NOT second class citizens. If they were, you should be DEMANDING that you sleep in units which had not ever been slept in by a resale family, not owned by any FIXED WEEK resale owner, resale guests have no pools or other resort amenities, and the resale scum have their own check in desk in the basement.
> 
> And remember, YOUR special VIP Platinum level can go away at any time, too. Only the original purchaser (you inherited your status) has VIP status --- also, those VIP benefits can and have changed at the WHIM of WVO. *And the is FACT and not a rumor -- VIP benefits have decreased and been routinely lessened..... *



In your haste to keep attacking me, you do not apparently see that I did not confirm poster number 4 in the cited link.  What I did was pass on in the context of that post that the reservation people for Wyndham Club Plus/Access and presumably the Wyndham Club pass reservation people confirmed that three HI resorts are joining the Wyndham Club Pass system.  I did not write down their names because I was on the Turnpike at the time.   If you are interested in the names of the resorts, just give them a call.  They have a list of resorts that are joining the Wyndham Club Pass system.  I have checked the resorts with them that I go to and at this time, they are not slated for the Wyndham Club Pass program.  

I did not check all of the Resorts.  I do not actively follow the HI resorts, however, I am not sure where RCI got in the conversation.  I do not believe it was referenced on the quoted thread or in my post.  I will check again though.  I am not sure, but I think poster 4 may have identified the exchange company Wyndham uses in HI.

As for you bald face lie that my post did not have anything to do with Wyndham Vacation Resorts, I would again point out that it was their call center that is confirming three HI Resorts were joining the Wyndham Club Pass program.

For those who do not feel any need to check their facts before attacking people, A simple phone call to reservations would have disclosed that Club Wyndham Pass is a Wyndham Vacation Ownership exchange program and not the Wyndham Vacation Rentals and Exchange Group.  

Press on with false accusations and false facts in order to accomplish what ever your agenda might be.  If one were cynical, one might believe you are acting as you do in a false belief that you are protecting your rental business.

By the way, as a friendly word to the wise, if your rental operation includes rentals in HI, you might was to use your Shell and Club Wyndham Access/Plus points to scarf up HI rental over the summer before they are gone.  You might just make a mint.

I just checked  the whole thread, the only reference to RCI was in post 10 (not the first or fourth poster), it indicted that RCI availability was there.  I still am confused as to where RCI got in the conversation on my post.  I quoted poster number 4 and, by implication, the 1st poster since it was a response to that post.

Regarding your comments pertaining to my VIP status (by the way as you already know, I have also purchased directly from Wyndham.  My best price was $700 dollars plus closing costs at Westwinds).  I was not aware until now that you connections with Wyndham Sales was that strong.  Yes, I have felt what apparently is the heat from your wrath on this point at Shawnee Village, among others.  Nice thought but it has been tried by sales a number of times.

A elitist Wynham VIP Platinum Owner that apparently supports the concept of VIP rights only for VIP Original Owners, a former Wyndham Sales Rep, perhaps?

Again, maybe you would want to check your facts, the Members Directory provides for ways to get and retain VIP Status other than through direct purchase.


----------



## lcml11

Just noticed, this thread went over 6,000 views.  Impressive.  Wyndham Club Pass must be drawing a lot of interest.


----------



## bnoble

lcml11 said:


> Just noticed, this thread went over 6,000 views.  Impressive.  Wyndham Club Pass must be drawing a lot of interest.


More accurately, this thread is drawing a lot of interest...much as a train wreck does.


----------



## lcml11

bnoble said:


> More accurately, this thread is drawing a lot of interest...much as a train wreck does.



I think you are right.


----------



## DeeDibble

Bigrob said:


> Sort of, but not quite. There are a number of owners who have both resale and developer points. Presumably only the developer points would be eligible to be traded outside of their home system. But you would still be enrolled in the system automatically, even if none of your points were actually eligible to book a Worldmark resort (if you're a resale Wyndham owner).
> 
> This is another way to attempt to differentiate resale from developer purchased points... I can hear the sales weasels spinning this already...
> 
> Ron's right that it wouldn't have much impact for someone who was willing to invest in ownership in both systems. It clearly may impact those who only have resale Wyndham points who have traded in to Worldmark previously and may no longer be able to do so without making an investment in Worldmark credits.
> 
> I do read this as home SYSTEM and not home resort. I wonder if this is the "grain of truth" that some sales weasels were getting people spun up on a week or so ago about, "resale owners will only be able to use their home resort".



Most definately can here the Weasels squealing!  I'm guessing that we are going to have to be even a little more "strategic" while booking    In my case, I use the resorts I have deeds in and have Wyndham Access.  Soooo, to insure that I will be able to get into the Worldmark I gotta make sure that I save the developer purchased points for those trades.


----------



## lcml11

DeeDibble said:


> Most definately can here the Weasels squealing!  I'm guessing that we are going to have to be even a little more "strategic" while booking    In my case, I use the resorts I have deeds in and have Wyndham Access.  Soooo, to insure that I will be able to get into the Worldmark I gotta make sure that I save the developer purchased points for those trades.



Any Worldmark owners out their know or can speculate which Resorts that are part of the Club Wyndham Plus/Access system that will become available to them under the Club Wyndham Pass system?  Or, any of the posters that own in both systems might be able to share that information.

Also, for the posters that own in Club Wyndham Plus/Access and Shell, has Shell released any info on upcoming availability in the Club Wyndam Plus/Access Resorts that would result from the reported short term arrangement of 8 Shell Affiliates hooking up with Club Wyndham Access?


----------



## lcml11

*Partial Listing of Club Wyndham Plus/Access Resorts joing Club Wyndham Pass*

Just got off the phone with Owner Care.  They checked the list of Resorts joining the Club Wyndham Pass program.  Here is a partial list:

-  3 HI resorts
-  Skyline Tower
-  Kingsgate
-  Nashville
-  A few Fl resorts
-  Smokey Mountain
-  Fairfield Glade
-  St. Thomas
-  Ocean Blvd

There apparently is a expanded list not released yet that may include most if not all of the Club Wyndham Plus resorts.


----------



## ronparise

if you are interested

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hqdjxe3uyyovixx/y0PAXUKyhd


This is a list of the Club Wyndham resorts and what a Worldmark owner will pay (in Credits) to reserve at one of them

I dont have the list of Worldmark resorts that will be open to Wyndham owners.


----------



## ronparise

It might also interest you to know that Worldmark owners are really concerned that this program will suck up all their short stay availability at 9 months


----------



## GregT

ronparise said:


> if you are interested
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hqdjxe3uyyovixx/y0PAXUKyhd
> 
> 
> This is a list of the Club Wyndham resorts and what a Worldmark owner will pay (in Credits) to reserve at one of them
> 
> I dont have the list of Worldmark resorts that will be open to Wyndham owners.



Ron, that's really interesting -- I've not been tracking this change closely -- thanks for the materials.

Best,

Greg


----------



## bnoble

> Worldmark owners are really concerned that this program will suck up all their short stay availability at 9 months


This particular group of owners can out-paranoid anyone---though it is perhaps with good reason.


----------



## NHTraveler

bnoble said:


> This particular group of owners can out-paranoid anyone---though it is perhaps with good reason.



If they plan ahead and book accordingly, this would not be an issue.


----------



## Rent_Share

bnoble said:


> This particular group of owners can out-paranoid anyone---though it is perhaps with good reason.



The Short stay availability at 9 months has only been in effect for a year, prior to that it was limited to booking 90 days before check in. 

 We are not paranoid, just protective


----------



## ronparise

Rent_Share said:


> The Short stay availability at 9 months has only been in effect for a year, prior to that it was limited to booking 90 days before check in.
> 
> We are not paranoid, just protective



My point is that Wyndham owners feel the same way


----------



## GregT

All,

Page 12 of first attachment in Ron's dropbox indicates 3 types of Worldmark credits: Class A, B and C.   Class C appears to be excluded from this exchange. 

Any idea what the difference in Classes means?

Thx!


----------



## GregT

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Page 12 of first attachment in Ron's dropbox indicates 3 types of Worldmark credits: Class A, B and C.   Class C appears to be excluded from this exchange.
> 
> Any idea what the difference in Classes means?
> 
> Thx!



Found it in in the TEN Summary

Class A -- TravelShare Qualified
Class B -- Prior to Nov 5, 2006
Class C -- Post Nov 5, 2006, not TS qual'd

Interesting.


----------



## benyu2010

Class A- WTS
Class B- WM+A
Class C- WM


----------



## benyu2010

ronparise said:


> It might also interest you to know that Worldmark owners are really concerned that this program will suck up all their short stay availability at 9 months



Don't you consider yourself Worldmark owner, Ron? I've not seen you show much of the concern, or it would not have much heated debate in Club Wyndham Pass at all

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38789

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326896#p326896

Johnvancouver is Worldmark BoD director John Henley. He stated point conversion ratio is WM 1:16.4 WVO in next post.

It is definitely a curious topic...


----------



## GregT

I agree with others that fundamentally, this is making the leftovers in each system available to owners of the other system, in trade for a $99 fee.

As a Worldmark owner (who likes some of the Wyndham properties), this new feature is interesting to me.  The Worldmark owner  still gets 4 month of unfettered access to the home properties, but as Phyllis has pointed out, has to compete with Wyndham owners 9 months for shorter stays -- but the best properties are going to be fully booked.  I think throwaway days can still present an (expensive) solution if the Worldmark owner is willing to tolerate the extra HK token and wasted credits but it's better than nothing if a short stay is required.

The reality though is that the best properties in Worldmark are long gone by the time 9 months rolls around, and therefore they won't be available for that Wyndham trader or the Worldmark short stay.

It's been awhile since I had the Wyndham account, but I would suspect the same situation will exist for the properties that I am interested in (Waikiki Beach Walk, Bluebeard's Beach Club, Shearwater).  I would think that those are also mostly gone between months 9-10 when all Club Wyndham owners have 1 month of unfettered access before the properties are opened up to Worldmark exchangers.

It's a very interesting strategy and creative of Wyndham to find a way to cross-pollinate the systems.   It competes with Wyndham's own RCI exchange, so somehow they must feel it doesn't cannibalize a traditional RCI trade, and I suppose that it doesn't.  It's also an effective marketing tool.

We will see what the final impact is, and I will watch to see if those properties I noted have any type of reasonable availability via exchange.

Best,

Greg


----------



## ronparise

benyu2010 said:


> Don't you consider yourself Worldmark owner, Ron? I've not seen you show much of the concern, or it would not have much heated debate in Club Wyndham Pass at all
> 
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38789
> 
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326896#p326896
> 
> Johnvancouver is Worldmark BoD director John Henley. He stated point conversion ratio is WM 1:16.4 WVO in next post.
> 
> It is definitely a curious topic...



Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com"

I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)


----------



## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com
> 
> I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)



And that is WHY I added Shell Vacation Club to my collection.


----------



## benyu2010

ronparise said:


> Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com
> 
> I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)





Agree..it is largely non issue. Exchange at full credit with less flexibility and add-on fee is NOT permanent solution for regular visits. Buy what you use is the best... 

Have you done the cost analysis between guest rental and Club Wyndham Pass based on 1:16.4?


----------



## GregT

benyu2010 said:


> Have you done the cost analysis between guest rental and Club Wyndham Pass based on 1:16.4?



The cost analysis will be interesting, but I like holding the reservation in my account because of the cancelation benefits.   Per the documents in Ron's dropbox, it appears that an exchange can be canceled within 15 days of check-in at no penalty -- returning both the credits and the exchange fee.   I will be surprised if that lasts (I would think the exchange fee would be lost) but still pretty generous.

It would be interesting to compare the cost versus a rental though.     

Ron, if I wanted to rent something from you (Waikiki Beach Club) and it was a 231,000 point reservation, what would you charge?   (Mods, this is a hypothetical, not an offer to rent)

For a Worldmark owner, it probably costs me 14,100 credits for that trade ($~$900 in MFs) plus a HK token (~$75) and the $99 exchange fee.   So I am out $1,075 for the exchange.

Would be interesting to compare the pure costs -- the advantage to Club Wyndham Pass exchange program is the control/cancelation protection over the reservation.   The advantage to renting from Ron is that I get the reservation 10 months out when availability is much stronger/more likely.

Best,

Greg


----------



## ronparise

GregT said:


> The cost analysis will be interesting, but I like holding the reservation in my account because of the cancelation benefits.   Per the documents in Ron's dropbox, it appears that an exchange can be canceled within 15 days of check-in at no penalty -- returning both the credits and the exchange fee.   I will be surprised if that lasts (I would think the exchange fee would be lost) but still pretty generous.
> 
> It would be interesting to compare the cost versus a rental though.
> 
> Ron, if I wanted to rent something from you (Waikiki Beach Club) and it was a 231,000 point reservation, what would you charge?   (Mods, this is a hypothetical, not an offer to rent)
> 
> For a Worldmark owner, it probably costs me 14,100 credits for that trade ($~$900 in MFs) plus a HK token (~$75) and the $99 exchange fee.   So I am out $1,075 for the exchange.
> 
> Would be interesting to compare the pure costs -- the advantage to Club Wyndham Pass exchange program is the control/cancelation protection over the reservation.   The advantage to renting from Ron is that I get the reservation 10 months out when availability is much stronger/more likely.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



The way I do this thing is that  I make a lot on some rentals, a little on others. I lose money on some and break even on the rest. What I charge for a rental  depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on the market (and the state of my bank account.)

So I dont have a cast in concrete formula for my rentals.  But here are my costs.

my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99. 
So to your example   231 x 5 =  1155 +99 = $1254

but I have ways to save a little.  as a platinum owner when we get within 60 days of check in I can get a 50% discount. I dont get it on everything I do, but I get  it enough to lower my overall costs somewhat

Most folks I know that rent their Wyndham points will tell you that there is no profit for most reservations unless you are a Platinum owner.

So if you came to me and said  "I can get this for  $1075...can you beat it?"  Id probably  say yes.   and Id consider using my Platinum benefits to lower my cost to something closer to $600


----------



## benyu2010

In another word, Club Wyndham Pass offers strong competition to owners direct rentals? Specifically between 9 months and 60 days. It probably beats everyone with lower cost, liberal cancellation policy and flexibility of short stay, plus benefited of official brand name. At least, that's my thought as a WM owner...

GregT's Worldmark cost is based on higher end of credit rental, it would be much lower if based on lower end of the range or MF excluding club fee.

BTW, WM credit would be worth much more than CWA based on 1:16.4 rate, in addition to its flexibilities.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The way I do this thing is that  I make a lot on some rentals, a little on others. I lose money on some and break even on the rest. What I charge for a rental  depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on the market (and the state of my bank account.
> 
> So I dont have a cast in concrete formula for my rentals.  But here are my costs.
> 
> my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99.
> So to your example   231 x 5 =  1155 +99 = $1254
> 
> but I have ways to save a little.  as a platinum owner when we get within 60 days of check in I can get a 50% discount. I dont get it on everything I do, but I get  it enough to lower my overall costs somewhat
> 
> Most folks I know that rent their Wyndham points will tell you that there is no profit for most reservations unless you are a Platinum owner.
> 
> So if you came to me and said  "I can get this for  $1075...can you beat it?"  Id probably  say yes.   and Id consider using my Platinum benefits to lower my cost to something closer to $600



All this proves is that for the next year or so, if you are a Worldmark Owner, renting the Wyndham Club Plus/Access resorts from a Platinum owner is a viable option over purchase into a different club until things settle out.

By the way, do not forget to ask the Platinum Owner about the free upgrade if the reservation is under 60 days.

Catch Ron on a bad day and maybe you could get the reservation for $600.05 cents. After all, you do need to leave something for profit.


----------



## GregT

ronparise said:


> But here are my costs.
> 
> my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99.
> So to your example   231 x 5 =  1155 +99 = $1254



Ron, that's very interesting and thank you for posting.  The actual costs aren't that different between systems and perhaps that is how the 16.4 conversion ratio was derived.  Benyu is correct in that I may be using WM mf costs that are higher than others because I only have a 10K package.

I will be curious to see how availability between the two systems is impacted and if there is any desirable properties with availability.   The more I think about it, the more impressed I am with Wyndham's creativity here -- and don't view this as a competitor to RCI, but instead a way to monetize available inventory between the two systems.

I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user.  I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.

Best,

Greg


----------



## ronparise

GregT said:


> I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user.  I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



And thats the way its always been

The guy that knows how to use what he owns always does better than the guy that doesnt.  .  Club Pass may widen the satisfaction gap between the smart knowledgeable owners and the ones that dont take the time to learn the system but Wyndham is not responsible for their owners that remain uneducated.


----------



## vacationhopeful

It is also was way to EARN (GET) $99 as the exchange fee from the "FULL FRIEGHT" buyers. And by clearly stating "NO RENTALS" and no resale points, starts to put some meat into the Resale Owners are 2nd class.

Personally, it is no big deal for me ... I own where I go.


----------



## markb53

vacationhopeful said:


> It is also was way to EARN (GET) $99 as the exchange fee from the "FULL FRIEGHT" buyers. And by clearly stating "NO RENTALS" and no resale points, starts to put some meat into the Resale Owners are 2nd class.
> 
> Personally, it is no big deal for me ... I own where I go.



I have both developer purchased and resale points in my account. It will be interesting to see how the Club Wyndham Pass deals with that. Will I be only able to use my developer purchased points to make a reservation?


----------



## ronparise

markb53 said:


> I have both developer purchased and resale points in my account. It will be interesting to see how the Club Wyndham Pass deals with that. Will I be only able to use my developer purchased points to make a reservation?



The disclosure document

Likewise, I own a very few developer purchased points in my Wyndham account; enough to make the account I think the disclosure document I posted  spells things out clearly

WorldMark, The Club Credits: Class A and Class B Credits and roll-over Class A and B Credits, as defined in the TEN Program Summary, are eligible for all WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Class C Credits are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits. Class D Credits are eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits Credits if they are held by a Member who also holds eligible Class A or Class B Credits. Class E Credits are not eligible for either WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits or WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Please see the TEN Disclosure Summary for a full description of all Credit classifications.
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points: Points associated with a vacation ownership interest purchased directly from Wyndham or its affiliates, acquired from an Immediate Relative, or acquired from an authorized selling agent or reseller are eligible for both WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Points acquired from a third party not considered an Immediate Relative or not authorized by Wyndham are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits.


----------



## CO skier

... here come the "Universal Points" at Bonnett Creek (or wherever it was) posts, again.


----------



## benyu2010

GregT said:


> I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user.  I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Unfortunately, same theory applies to every concern of one's life...Actually, I believe Wyndham would push this program hard and educate every owner to monetize the program which is win-win...In the end, it's not rocket science, you open the chart with live inventory and click and book, just have to plan as early as possible...


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> ... here come the "Universal Points" at Bonnett Creek (or wherever it was) posts, again.



I wondered where he got that...thanks


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The disclosure document
> 
> Likewise, I own a very few developer purchased points in my Wyndham account; enough to make the account I think the disclosure document I posted  spells things out clearly
> 
> WorldMark, The Club Credits: Class A and Class B Credits and roll-over Class A and B Credits, as defined in the TEN Program Summary, are eligible for all WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Class C Credits are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits. Class D Credits are eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits Credits if they are held by a Member who also holds eligible Class A or Class B Credits. Class E Credits are not eligible for either WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits or WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Please see the TEN Disclosure Summary for a full description of all Credit classifications.
> CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points: Points associated with a vacation ownership interest purchased directly from Wyndham or its affiliates, acquired from an Immediate Relative, or acquired from an authorized selling agent or reseller are eligible for both WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Points acquired from a third party not considered an Immediate Relative or not authorized by Wyndham are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits.



Interesting, what happened to the inherited by will?


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Interesting, what happened to the inherited by will?



Another VIP benefit that went away?

Doesn't matter to me ... I got my status with the good old green back.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Another VIP benefit that went away?



Apparently so, and a major one at that.  I checked the current Members Directory, on paper at least, the current on-line version still includes by will.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Apparently so, and a major one at that.  I checked the current Members Directory, on paper at least, the current on-line version still includes by will.



You are comparing apples to oranges


Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit.  The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program

VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy

The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
 VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass,  only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important

So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die  with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass


----------



## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges
> 
> 
> Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit.  The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program
> 
> VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy
> 
> The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
> VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass,  only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important
> 
> So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die  with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass



One of the members of the 100K Wyndham owner's list you bought, Ron? :hysterical:


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges
> 
> 
> Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit.  The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program
> 
> VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy
> 
> The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
> VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass,  only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important
> 
> So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die  with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass



I hope you are right, it is going to be just differences in the program or just a oversite for the Club Wyndham Pass program.

Use of the VIP Benifit discounts in the VIP Pass program is still a open question.  Last I heard from Wyndham was yes they are usable but that was subject to change.

Not that sales would be right, but maybe some who is going to a presentation that is pitching Club Wyndham Pass can ask the question and post the response.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> One of the members of the 100K Wyndham owner's list you bought, Ron? :hysterical:



No. I havent figured out how, or even if Im going to use it


----------



## DeeDibble

*Wyndham Fast Pass*

I looked at the Worldmark page earlier and found a fewI would like to go to.  If I want to pay an exchange fee to go to one of the Worldmark Resorts I would really like to know how many points it will cost me.  Has anyone heard?


----------



## Bigrob

DeeDibble said:


> I looked at the Worldmark page earlier and found a fewI would like to go to.  If I want to pay an exchange fee to go to one of the Worldmark Resorts I would really like to know how many points it will cost me.  Has anyone heard?



I'd wager you'd find it would be more than it would be to rent from a Worldmark owner by the time you calculate the cost of the maintenance fees from the Wyndham points you'd use, plus the exchange fee. As has been said, it's not clear whether VIP discounts would apply (I would guess not since it's not Wyndham inventory). Some have suggested a ratio of 1:16.4 (a 10,000 Worldmark reservation would cost 164,000 Wyndham points) but I don't know if that's the final word. Ron included some documents that show it in the other direction, it's not too far an extrapolation to think the conversion would be similar going the other way.

If there are Worldmark locations that interest you, you might want to check out a Worldmark ownership. There seem to be a lot of happy Worldmark owners and the MF's are among the lowest of the points systems.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> I'd wager you'd find it would be more than it would be to rent from a Worldmark owner by the time you calculate the cost of the maintenance fees from the Wyndham points you'd use, plus the exchange fee. As has been said, it's not clear whether VIP discounts would apply (I would guess not since it's not Wyndham inventory). Some have suggested a ratio of 1:16.4 (a 10,000 Worldmark reservation would cost 164,000 Wyndham points) but I don't know if that's the final word. Ron included some documents that show it in the other direction, it's not too far an extrapolation to think the conversion would be similar going the other way.
> 
> If there are Worldmark locations that interest you, you might want to check out a Worldmark ownership. There seem to be a lot of happy Worldmark owners and the MF's are among the lowest of the points systems.



That ration 1:16.4 was info provided by a member of th Worldmark Board of Directors.  He is in a position to know. A typical 2 bedroom in one of the older  Worldmark resorts  is 10000 credits in red season , but the newer resorts are often more. You can see the credits requirements for each resort by going to www.worldmarktheclub.com and clicking on the "resort gallery" link. That will bring up a map. drill down to an individual resort and the seasons and credits requirements are posted there...  apply the 1:16.4 ratio and there you are.


----------



## markb53

ronparise said:


> That ration 1:16.4 was info provided by a member of th Worldmark Board of Directors.  He is in a position to know. A typical 2 bedroom in one of the older  Worldmark resorts  is 10000 credits in red season , but the newer resorts are often more. You can see the credits requirements for each resort by going to www.worldmarktheclub.com and clicking on the "resort gallery" link. That will bring up a map. drill down to an individual resort and the seasons and credits requirements are posted there...  apply the 1:16.4 ratio and there you are.



I just applied the 1:16.4 ratio to Wyndham/WorldMark Angels Camp, where I'll be in a couple of weeks, and it works out perfectly for the 1,2, and 3 BR.


----------



## lcml11

Had better luck to day at the resort for information.  Voyager, the portion that is going forward is going to focus on a tighter connection between the Corporate reservation system, the Property Management Groupm, and the Resorts.

Voyager is not the scheduled down time that was mentioned in a thread.

Old Town Alexandria and National Harbor are expected to be part of Club Wyndham Pass.

No particularly new information here.

If anyone else is out in Resorts this weekend, maybe you can ask Resort Management about Voyager and that Resorts involvement in Club Wyndham Pass and post their responses.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Had better luck to day at the resort for information.  Voyager, the portion that is going forward is going to focus on a tighter connection between the Corporate reservation system, the Property Management Groupm, and the Resorts.
> 
> Voyager is not the scheduled down time that was mentioned in a thread.
> 
> Old Town Alexandria and National Harbor are expected to be part of Club Wyndham Pass.
> 
> No particularly new information here.
> 
> If anyone else is out in Resorts this weekend, maybe you can ask Resort Management about Voyager and that Resorts involvement in Club Wyndham Pass and post their responses.



The folks at the resort should have no more information about Voyager and Club Wyndham Pass than we do. Their job is to manage the property, keep the rooms clean and grass mowed and bushes trimmed. They dont have anything to do with reservations or exchange clubs or companies. Why ask them about those things.


----------



## persia

That's never stopped them from answering though....



ronparise said:


> The folks at the resort should have no more information about Voyager and Club Wyndham Pass than we do. Their job is to manage the property, keep the rooms clean and grass mowed and bushes trimmed. They dont have anything to do with reservations or exchange clubs or companies. Why ask them about those things.


----------



## lcml11

persia said:


> That's never stopped them from answering though....



Kept seeking infomation.  A couple of points emerged.

Unrelated point, Sales staff at Old Town Alexandria came up with a new sales pitch.  It pitches purchase in a company for professionals (an Attorney in this case) and use their client base as the actual users of the reservations.

More on point, Membership Services was very helpful and informative.  Regarding Shell and Club Wyndham Pass, he indicated that the Shell resorts coming under the scope of Club Wyndham Pass were the resorts with dots on the Shell site. It appears to be all of them.  http://www.shellvacationsclub.com/club/svcresorts.jsp

For people out their that think they get good info from resorts because they are nice, posting the location of the resort, who the info was received from, and what the information is would add to the collective knowledge.  

If Wyndham Old Town Alexandria is right, I welcome the upcoming access to Wyndham availability from the Shell system, even if a fee is involved. 

He also gave me a list of the current Club Wyndham Access Resorts point out that Wyndham Old Town Alexandria is now on it, he indicated it was updated last week.  He printed it from the Wyndham site.  It came from the on-line learning part of the site.  I counted 69 resorts listed.  As far as I can tell, the 8 Affiliate Shell resorts have not shown up yet.

Again maybe the nice people can weasel information coming down the Shell and Worldmark lines.  From one weasel to another, the sales weasels would not be a bad starting point.

I do not know for sure whether the 8 Shell Affiliates are going to show up under the Club Wyndham Plus/Access program or Wyndham Club Pass or both.  However, here are their names.  If they go to Club Wyndham Access the number of resorts would go 77.

 8 New Associate Locations in 2014
Announcement posted on Wyndham Vacation Resorts website:



Club Wyndham will be adding eight new Shell Vacations Club locations to the program in 2014 including:

Americana Home Group:  Orange Tree Golf Resort – Scottsdale, Arizona

    The Legacy Golf Resort – Phoenix, Arizona
    Crotched Mountain Resort – Francestown, New Hampshire
    Vino Bello Resort – Napa, California
    Carriage Ridge Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
    Carriage Hills Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
    Peacock Suites – Anaheim, California
    Starr Pass Golf Suites – Tucson, Arizona

The Shell Vacation Club site is showing the following as part of their availability:

Wyndham Grande Chicago
Wyndham Midtown 45
Wyndham San Diego Bayside


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The folks at the resort should have no more information about Voyager and Club Wyndham Pass than we do. Their job is to manage the property, keep the rooms clean and grass mowed and bushes trimmed. They dont have anything to do with reservations or exchange clubs or companies. Why ask them about those things.



Au contraire my friend, the heart of the Voyager system is the attempted hook-up of the resorts, property management, and reservations.  Some tend to have tunnel vision when looking at Wyndham Club Plus and miss how this relatively small cog in the bigger Wyndham World fits in.  

Same for the comment on Wyndham the Wyndham Club Pass system, this attempted integration of various Wyndham Vacation Ownership systems has a number of the small cogs in play.

I will work with you on this Ron.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The folks at the resort should have no more information about Voyager and Club Wyndham Pass than we do. Their job is to manage the property, keep the rooms clean and grass mowed and bushes trimmed. They dont have anything to do with reservations or exchange clubs or companies. Why ask them about those things.



Au contraire my friend, the heart of the Voyager system is the attempted hook-up of the resorts, property management, and reservations.  Some tend to have tunnel vision when looking at Wyndham Club Plus and miss how this relatively small cog in the bigger Wyndham World fits in.  

Same for the comment on Wyndham the Wyndham Club Pass system, this attempted integration of various Wyndham Vacation Ownership systems has a number of the small cogs in play.

I will work with you on this Ron.

Tschuss


----------



## lcml11

GregT said:


> ... and don't view this as a competitor to RCI, but instead a way to monetize available inventory between the two systems. ...



Not sure about this.  Per Old Town Alexandria Member Services, Club Wyndham Pass has been set up and is becoming another RCI.  

Remember, Wyndham got tagged by the RCI Weeks and RCI Points lawsuit.  This may be as simple as a re-action to those lawsuits.

Doing a good job at it to I might add.  Their being fee for service is $99 vs. the RCI fee which is significantly higher.  This would not be the first time Wyndham had more than one system in the same industry.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Not sure about this.  Per Old Town Alexandria Member Services, Club Wyndham Pass has been set up and is becoming another RCI.
> 
> Remember, Wyndham got tagged by the RCI Weeks and RCI Points lawsuit.  This may be as simple as a re-action to those lawsuits.



*GregT*, I fully agree with you that this "PASS" system is just another way to get more CASH from the Wyndham owners. Taking something that was FREE and now charging $99 to exchange into.

Additionally, by adding the conditions that this inventory can NOT be rented nor can points brought off the RESALE market places be use to make reservations, it is an attempt to "subclass" Wyndham points ownership into an "Elite" and bargain basement.

It is also a way to introduce the limited Shell Vacation Club inventory to both Worldmark and the various Wyndham points clubs (Plus and CWA) while Shell continues with its contractual II relationship for awhile. It could be considered a cash generator OR sales leads for more Developer sales.  There are some large Shell club points members --- there being a very limited number of Shell resorts. To offer Shell locations as a PASS to CWA or CWP owners could be attractive. Shell owners could trade within the total WVO group. Just a swapping of inventory -- all generating the $99 exchange fee (an increasing exchange fee).

ADDED: Would Wyndham continue to SELL Shell as a separate system? I would ALWAYS suspect Wyndham to keep a SALES PRESENCE at all their resorts - but selling Shell at the Shell locations? Might be more of selling CWA - a generic CLUB property verses a deeded property.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> *GregT*, I fully agree with you that this "PASS" system is just another way to get more CASH from the Wyndham owners. Taking something that was FREE and now charging $99 to exchange into.
> 
> Additionally, by adding the conditions that this inventory can NOT be rented nor can points brought off the RESALE market places be use to make reservations, it is an attempt to "subclass" Wyndham points ownership into an "Elite" and bargain basement.
> 
> It is also a way to introduce the limited Shell Vacation Club inventory to both Worldmark and the various Wyndham points clubs (Plus and CWA) while Shell continues with its contractual II relationship for awhile. It could be considered a cash generator OR sales leads for more Developer sales.  There are some large Shell points club members --- but there is limited number of resorts. To sell a LARGE number of resorts in CWA or CWP could be attractive IF they upgrade or trade in points within the total WVO group.



Especially if WVO stops bulk deposits into RCI and shifts them over to Club Wyndham Pass.  If this were done, then it should be a wash for rentors since technically renting from either availability pool would not be permitted.

I have heard of the selling of unsold Shell Inventory into the Club Wyndham Access program from a couple of resorts over the years, but it does not appear to be coming soon based on the Sales Presentation I was at at Shawnee Village recently.  I am seriously considering buying one when this happens (Oh my, I might even do it from the developer).


----------



## vacationhopeful

Oh, Robert, just cross over to the dark side.... buy a Shell resale membership. Get 6,000-9,000 Shell points --- many are free with closing costs included. Some even have a year's worth of FREE points and banked points from last year.

Of course, almost all their locations are a FLY to for you -- but they are nice with many city locals.


----------



## learnalot

lcml11 said:


> Especially if WVO stops bulk deposits into RCI and shifts them over to Club Wyndham Pass.  If this were done, then it should be a wash for rentors since technically renting from either availability pool would not be permitted.



You are speculating wildly about things you appear not to even understand.  Wyndham makes deposits to RCI because Wyndham owners have elected to deposit points with RCI. To suggest that these would be "shifted over" to Wyndham Pass is to fail to grasp the basic nature of the transaction.  Speculating MILDLY myself, I don't think there will be a question of any inventory being "shifted" to Wyndham Pass, which would pull it out of the parent system.  Rather I suspect that it will simply become "visible" to all applicable ownerships at the 9 month mark- just as Wyndham inventory not booked during ARP becomes visible to all Wyndham points owners at 10 months.


----------



## lcml11

learnalot said:


> You are speculating wildly about things you appear not to even understand.  Wyndham makes deposits to RCI because Wyndham owners have elected to deposit points with RCI. To suggest that these would be "shifted over" to Wyndham Pass is to fail to grasp the basic nature of the transaction.  Speculating MILDLY myself, I don't think there will be a question of any inventory being "shifted" to Wyndham Pass, which would pull it out of the parent system.  Rather I suspect that it will simply become "visible" to all applicable ownerships at the 9 month mark- just as Wyndham inventory not booked during ARP becomes visible to all Wyndham points owners at 10 months.



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205135

You are right, I do not know much about the Wyndham bulk deposit program(s) other than I have seen it mentioned a few times with some limited chatter about it.  

It would be interesting to know which resorts are being bulk deposited and where that inventory is coming from.


----------



## ronparise

learnalot said:


> You are speculating wildly about things you appear not to even understand.  Wyndham makes deposits to RCI because Wyndham owners have elected to deposit points with RCI. To suggest that these would be "shifted over" to Wyndham Pass is to fail to grasp the basic nature of the transaction.  Speculating MILDLY myself, I don't think there will be a question of any inventory being "shifted" to Wyndham Pass, which would pull it out of the parent system.  Rather I suspect that it will simply become "visible" to all applicable ownerships at the 9 month mark- just as Wyndham inventory not booked during ARP becomes visible to all Wyndham points owners at 10 months.



Oh no! 

not the voice of reason

How will robert deal with that


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Oh no!
> 
> not the voice of reason
> 
> How will robert deal with that



See my post at 139 for the answer to the million dollar question.

For a very interesting response to the OP in the linked thread, look at post number 2.

Could you expand on the comments expressed in that thread?


----------



## vacationhopeful

His fingers work just fine --- it is the processor controlling those fingers that is way off.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> His fingers work just fine --- it is the processor controlling those fingers that is way off.



The processor works just fine on my Windows 7 and 8 systems now that I have made some changes.  At least the malware that keeps flooding me with re-sale timeshare adds when I use TUG have disappeared.

Try deleting Norton, Norton according to my teckie that broke the code was keeping Wyndows defender in  the off position that permitted it to be turned by on.  

On the Windows 8 system, I was able to download an upgrade.  

I took your comments literally, I did not care for the other implication.

Maybe you could shed some additional light on the Wyndham Bulk deposit system.

Always a pleasant surprise to stop the adds from the dark side.


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> I took your comments literally, I did not care for the other implication.
> 
> Always a pleasant surprise to stop the adds from the dark side.



Not so sure it was an implication. Unless you are referring to the term as in "he was implicated in XYZ". 

While ads are annoying, it would annoy me more still to have paid retail for my points. Although most of the ads I see tend to be related to the assumption that I am desperate to relieve myself of my timeshares.

:hysterical:


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> Not so sure it was an implication. Unless you are referring to the term as in "he was implicated in XYZ".
> 
> While ads are annoying, it would annoy me more still to have paid retail for my points. Although most of the ads I see tend to be related to the assumption that I am desperate to relieve myself of my timeshares.
> 
> :hysterical:



That is them.


----------



## learnalot

lcml11 said:


> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205135
> 
> You are right, I do not know much about the Wyndham bulk deposit program(s) other than I have seen it mentioned a few times with some limited chatter about it.
> 
> It would be interesting to know which resorts are being bulk deposited and where that inventory is coming from.



Deposits to RCI come from unbooked inventory - not usually before about the 8 month mark.  It is "paid for" using the points Wyndham owners have chosen to deposit to RCI.


----------



## lcml11

learnalot said:


> Deposits to RCI come from unbooked inventory - not usually before about the 8 month mark.  It is "paid for" using the points Wyndham owners have chosen to deposit to RCI.



Thanks, always wondered what happened to those points.  Learn something new everyday.

Now I understand.  Bulk deposits come from the points owners put into RCI for other accommodations.  To the extent that a Wyndham/RCI user puts points they formerly used in RCI in Club Wyndham Pass, a corresponding shift of actual timeshare weeks would pass from RCI to Club Wyndham Pass and the owner pockets a significant reservation fee savings by shifting the use from RCI to Wyndham Club Pass.


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> Thanks, always wondered what happened to those points.  Learn something new everyday.
> 
> Now I understand.  Bulk deposits come from the points owners put into RCI for other accommodations.  To the extent that a Wyndham/RCI user puts points they formerly used in RCI in Club Wyndham Pass, a corresponding shift of actual timeshare weeks would pass from RCI to Club Wyndham Pass and the owner pockets a significant reservation fee savings by shifting the use from RCI to Wyndham Club Pass.



Well... that might be true if all the RCI resorts were available through WCP. But as I understand it, there are only the Worldmark and 6 Shell Vacation Club locations available through WCP right now. Considerably more limited than the 4000+ locations in RCI.


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> Well... that might be true if all the RCI resorts were available through WCP. But as I understand it, there are only the Worldmark and 6 Shell Vacation Club locations available through WCP right now. Considerably more limited than the 4000+ locations in RCI.



Agreed.  It is unlikely that the three Wyndham Clubs appear to be involved are going to spread to non-Wyndham facilities anytime soon.

What are the six Shell Vacation Club facilities that you believe are now part of Club Wyndham Pass?  Also, the identity of their Shell Home Club, if you know it?


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> Agreed.  It is unlikely that the three Wyndham Clubs appear to be involved are going to spread to non-Wyndham facilities anytime soon.
> 
> What are the six Shell Vacation Club facilities that you believe are now part of Club Wyndham Pass?  Also, the identity of their Shell Home Club, if you know it?



"Now" is probably a misnomer... destined to be part of WCP when it rolls out in June would be more accurate. I don't know which resorts but I'll ask my contact tomorrow.


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> "Now" is probably a misnomer... destined to be part of WCP when it rolls out in June would be more accurate. I don't know which resorts but I'll ask my contact tomorrow.



Thanks-you.  That would be good to know.


----------



## rrlongwell

Bigrob said:


> "Now" is probably a misnomer... destined to be part of WCP when it rolls out in June would be more accurate. I don't know which resorts but I'll ask my contact tomorrow.



Just got off the phone with Shell Vacation Club.

Their Home Resorts currently are:

1.  Shell Direct
2.  Midwest
3.  HI
4.  West 
5.  Pacific
6.  California
7.  Americana

Do not know which 6r Shell Resorts are joining up with Club Wyndham Pass.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Robert - there are 4 Shell Owners Clubs. If you just brought a 6,000-12,000 point Shell membership, it would become all so clear in the morning.

The question is, which CLUB --
Americana (which also is comprised of Club Southwest & East)
Hawaii
Pacific
West (also referred to a California).


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Robert - there are 4 Shell Owners Clubs. If you just brought a 6,000-12,000 point Shell membership, it would become all so clear in the morning.
> 
> The question is, which CLUB --
> Americana (which also is comprised of Club Southwest & East)
> Hawaii
> Pacific
> West (also referred to a California).



Shell vs. what you say, will go with Shell with the exception that logically Pacific and California could go together.  Shell indicated that the Midwest Club was the new kid on the block.

Sorry to disappoint but the Direct Membership Club is made reference to on post 162 in the below link.  I will let others finish finding out about the Shell past and current structure if they are interested.  I am more interested in the future structure.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44941&page=7


----------



## vacationhopeful

Robert,
I have my info on a written brochure from Shell, not "whisper down the lane" telephone via a customer service/call center employee or WHAT their water cooler chatter is.


----------



## markb53

rrlongwell said:


> Just got off the phone with Shell Vacation Club.
> 
> Their Home Resorts currently are:
> 
> 1.  Shell Direct
> 2.  Midwest
> 3.  HI
> 4.  West
> 5.  Pacific
> 6.  California
> 7.  Americana
> 
> Do not know which 6r Shell Resorts are joining up with Club Wyndham Pass.



At this point, I believe, Wyndham has not mentioned when or if Shell will become part of Club Wyndham Pass. Club Wyndham Pass is supposed to be an internal exchange between Wyndham and Worldmark.

Wyndham has said that 8 Shell resorts will become Associate Resorts sometime during 2014. Those resorts are:

Orange Tree Golf Resort – Scottsdale, Arizona
The Legacy Golf Resort – Phoenix, Arizona
Crotched Mountain Resort – Francestown, New Hampshire
Vino Bello Resort – Napa, California
Carriage Ridge Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
Carriage Hills Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
Peacock Suites – Anaheim, California
Starr Pass Golf Suites – Tucson, Arizona

I think the associate resorts will be the first step. Then down the road they may become part of Club Wyndham Pass if that system works out for Wyndham.

Just my opinion, of course


----------



## Bigrob

markb53 said:


> At this point, I believe, Wyndham has not mentioned when or if Shell will become part of Club Wyndham Pass. Club Wyndham Pass is supposed to be an internal exchange between Wyndham and Worldmark.
> 
> Wyndham has said that 8 Shell resorts will become Associate Resorts sometime during 2014. Those resorts are:
> 
> Orange Tree Golf Resort – Scottsdale, Arizona
> The Legacy Golf Resort – Phoenix, Arizona
> Crotched Mountain Resort – Francestown, New Hampshire
> Vino Bello Resort – Napa, California
> Carriage Ridge Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
> Carriage Hills Resort – Shanty Bay, Ontario
> Peacock Suites – Anaheim, California
> Starr Pass Golf Suites – Tucson, Arizona
> 
> I think the associate resorts will be the first step. Then down the road they may become part of Club Wyndham Pass if that system works out for Wyndham.
> 
> Just my opinion, of course



I believe this is correct. According to my contact, folks who have just recently purchased Club Pass eligible contracts can see the inventory that is being added to Club Pass and are able to start making reservations. He indicated it would be March before others would see it. 

I was going to see what else I could get from him but he had to finish cutting the grass.


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> I believe this is correct. According to my contact, folks who have just recently purchased Club Pass eligible contracts can see the inventory that is being added to Club Pass and are able to start making reservations. He indicated it would be March before others would see it.
> 
> I was going to see what else I could get from him but he had to finish cutting the grass.



Thanks for the info that Wyndham Club Pass is up and running and people who bought developer points recently can now see the inventory and make reservations.

A interesting variation of the ARP concept.

I guess the water cooler chatter let us down, but, the guy cutting the grass came through.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Thanks for the info that Wyndham Club Pass is up and running and people who bought developer points recently can now see the inventory and make reservations.
> 
> A interesting variation of the ARP concept.
> 
> I guess the water cooler chatter let us down, but, the guy cutting the grass came through.



so your contact is one of the landscaping staff at one of the resorts?? Oh yea..that makes me confident


----------



## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> so your contact is one of the landscaping staff at one of the resorts?? Oh yea..that makes me confident



Think he was referring to me... who was being a little facetious.

Guy I'm talking to is pretty green and I wouldn't put too much stock in it frankly. It may be more like "here's what you'll be able to book when the system is open" rather than "here's something only you have access to that you can book before everyone else".


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> so your contact is one of the landscaping staff at one of the resorts?? Oh yea..that makes me confident



Glad you are confident.  Any interesting info coming from your sales contact at Corporate Sales?  Maybe input from their perspective would be interesting.

I do not disagree, verification would be appropriate.  If true, the new Wyndham World Order may be trail marketing a window where new developer purchases get some lead time over other owners for the better reservations.

To the degree that different Wyndham sources are saying different things about the Club Wyndham Pass System and the Shell purchase, that is nothing particularly new.


----------



## Sandi Bo

*Not Happy at all with this new "benefit"*

Yikes, I wasn't paying much attentions to the Club Pass thing - figured I'd figure it out when I needed to.  Since it's now affecting ME, I'm paying attention and trying to catch up real quick.

YUCK! Trying to book some rooms for a family wedding in San Diego in September.  Last time I checked, I was able to view inventory at the 2 WorldMarks in San Diego.  Not anymore -- now I get a 'Club Pass - Coming to a theater near you' message. 

Called Wyndham and was transferred to a special 'Club Pass' group (sorry if I am repeating what's been said above - tried to skim quickly).

* There are no plans for online viewing of WM inventory by Wyndham owners (necessary so they can control the inventory they will make available).
* Today, if you call in, you can reserve through Aug 15.
* Today, they cannot even check inventory in September for me.
* After June 1 (if the program goes live as scheduled), I can call in to check availability for September
* Random people were selected for a VIPeek program (all my Wyndham emails get automatically directed to a folder that I rarely even look at, so if I was invited, I did not notice). VIPeekers can reserve now using the new Club Pass program (just one more disadvantage for me if I call after June 1).
* Club Pass VC forgot to mention anything about developer only or $99 transfer fee

Unless I am totally off base - I don't expect this is a "perk" I'll ever use.  Great job Wyndham - it's 2014 and you took away my ability to do something online, added fees, and made it impossible for me to book rooms past August 15 while I wait for the program to go live.  

The funniest part is them painting this as a benefit.  Thanks but no thanks, I'll be sticking to Wyndham properties.


----------



## jebloomquist

*Looking in June 2014, no luck*

I just called Wyndham to see if any WorldMark resorts might be available now for a June reservation. I was told that since I was not one of the "select", I would have to wait until June 1st to reserve anything in June.

I just love this program.

Jim


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> Yikes, I wasn't paying much attentions to the Club Pass thing - figured I'd figure it out when I needed to.  Since it's now affecting ME, I'm paying attention and trying to catch up real quick.
> 
> YUCK! Trying to book some rooms for a family wedding in San Diego in September.  Last time I checked, I was able to view inventory at the 2 WorldMarks in San Diego.  Not anymore -- now I get a 'Club Pass - Coming to a theater near you' message.
> 
> Called Wyndham and was transferred to a special 'Club Pass' group (sorry if I am repeating what's been said above - tried to skim quickly).
> 
> * There are no plans for online viewing of WM inventory by Wyndham owners (necessary so they can control the inventory they will make available).
> * Today, if you call in, you can reserve through Aug 15.
> * Today, they cannot even check inventory in September for me.
> * After June 1 (if the program goes live as scheduled), I can call in to check availability for September
> * Random people were selected for a VIPeek program (all my Wyndham emails get automatically directed to a folder that I rarely even look at, so if I was invited, I did not notice). VIPeekers can reserve now using the new Club Pass program (just one more disadvantage for me if I call after June 1).
> * Club Pass VC forgot to mention anything about developer only or $99 transfer fee
> 
> Unless I am totally off base - I don't expect this is a "perk" I'll ever use.  Great job Wyndham - it's 2014 and you took away my ability to do something online, added fees, and made it impossible for me to book rooms past August 15 while I wait for the program to go live.
> 
> The funniest part is them painting this as a benefit.  Thanks but no thanks, I'll be sticking to Wyndham properties.



Answering both this post and the post that followed it, sorry about the observation in this post, this is just confirming what I had been told earlier about some inventory just going away to Club Wyndham Pass that could be formally booked.  They did tell me there was the transfer fees to get the units that go there.  The Worldmark inventory was specifically identified as the first inventory that was shifting.

To the second poster, do not feel bad, two or three reservations people told  me about the June 1st trick.  The fact that I am VIP Platinum made no difference.  

It does not surprise me that a select relatively few are getting the 1st dibs on  the better inventory.

Take it for what it is worth, Wyndham Sales indicated to me recently that on the Wyndham Club Plus side, all Wyndham Club Access resorts are joining the Wyndham Club Pass program.  

I would not be at all surprised that some or all of us will be paying a transfer fee for reservations  that were formally available through Wyndham Club Plus, even for Wyndham Club Access resorts.

I have been labeled a Fairfield owner by Wyndham Sales.  I fully expect that I will also not be taking advantage of what apparently is developing as my right to pay Wyndham more money to get was what formally available to me.

I like the former Fairfield resorts.  Can live without the rest.

Will be interesting to see if the New Orleans Club Wyndham Access inventory joins the Wyndham Club Pass program in whole or in part.

It is interesting that at least initially, a special group is/has been established to handle Wyndham Club Pass.

To track this mess now that the Beta Version of Wyndham Club Pass appears to be operational, that suggests the key components of what is left of Voyager are also now operating.

If anyone has been selected as part of favored few that can availability under Wyndham Club Pass, can you post wish Wyndham Club Plus/Access Resorts are currently showing up in inventory.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Answering both this post and the post that followed it, sorry about the observation in this post, this is just confirming what I had been told earlier about some inventory just going away to Club Wyndham Pass that could be formally booked.  They did tell me there was the transfer fees to get the units that go there.  The Worldmark inventory was specifically identified as the first inventory that was shifting.
> 
> To the second poster, do not feel bad, two or three reservations people told  me about the June 1st trick.  The fact that I am VIP Platinum made no difference.
> 
> It does not surprise me that a select relatively few are getting the 1st dibs on  the better inventory.
> 
> Take it for what it is worth, Wyndham Sales indicated to me recently that on the Wyndham Club Plus side, all Wyndham Club Access resorts are joining the Wyndham Club Pass program.
> 
> I would not be at all surprised that some or all of us will be paying a transfer fee for reservations  that were formally available through Wyndham Club Plus, even for Wyndham Club Access resorts.
> 
> I have been labeled a Fairfield owner by Wyndham Sales.  I fully expect that I will also not be taking advantage of what apparently is developing as my right to pay Wyndham more money to get was what formally available to me.
> 
> I like the former Fairfield resorts.  Can live without the rest.
> 
> Will be interesting to see if the New Orleans Club Wyndham Access inventory joins the Wyndham Club Pass program in whole or in part.
> 
> It is interesting that at least initially, a special group is/has been established to handle Wyndham Club Pass.
> 
> To track this mess now that the Beta Version of Wyndham Club Pass appears to be operational, that suggests the key components of what is left of Voyager are also now operating.
> 
> If anyone has been selected as part of favored few that can availability under Wyndham Club Pass, can you post wish Wyndham Club Plus/Access Resorts are currently showing up in inventory.



Regardig the New Orleans properties...Didnt you already answer your question when you said all the CWA properties would be available to Worldmark owners at 9 months

By the way Worldmark already owns 63 units(3276 weeks) at the Avenue Plaza resort\

And how do you figure "better inventory"


----------



## snickers104

I have been reading and watching posts in this thread for awhile now.....still don't see how it will cause any problems for a Wyndham owner that bought resale.  I bought Wyndham for the Wyndham properties...and will still be able to book those.  Just my 2 pennies worth.


----------



## ronparise

snickers104 said:


> I have been reading and watching posts in this thread for awhile now.....still don't see how it will cause any problems for a Wyndham owner that bought resale.  I bought Wyndham for the Wyndham properties...and will still be able to book those.  Just my 2 pennies worth.



The fear is that 250000 Worldmark owners will jump all over the wyndham inventory at 9 months.... Of course Worldmark owners are afraid that we Wyndham folk will be all over their inventory.

And the complaint is that this new opportunity to exchange what you own, reserved for developer purchases only, will be so special that it will render our resale points worthless in comparison. 

You are right..Much ado about nothing


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The fear is that 250000 Worldmark owners will jump all over the wyndham inventory at 9 months.... Of course Worldmark owners are afraid that we Wyndham folk will be all over their inventory.
> 
> And the complaint is that this new opportunity to exchange what you own, reserved for developer purchases only, will be so special that it will render our resale points worthless in comparison.
> 
> You are right..Much ado about nothing



Or, in the alternative, the old Fairfield owners and the successor owners will be the big winners.

Interesting thread.  Related or not?  I do not know.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205647


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> Or, in the alternative, the old Fairfield owners and the successor owners will be the big winners.
> 
> Interesting thread.  Related or not?  I do not know.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205647



Not really. I don't see any winners out of this. Other than Wyndham Corporate.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Or, in the alternative, the old Fairfield owners and the successor owners will be the big winners.
> 
> Interesting thread.  Related or not?  I do not know.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205647



Your going to have to explain that one to me

We are all old Fairfield owners or successor owners, I think

All our deeds are pledged to the Fairshare Trust, just like in the Fairfield days


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Your going to have to explain that one to me
> 
> We are all old Fairfield owners of successor owners, I think
> 
> All our deeds are pledged to the Fairshare Trust, just like in the Fairfield days



Easy explaination.  Simply put, I think the re-sale owners of the old Fairfield deeds, points or otherwise, may very well be the big winners when the day is done.  The availability for the traditional UDI weeks under Wyndham Club plus that were sold not through Club Wyndham Access I think may have more availability in Resort Specials and the VIP Windows.

Even if availability for Wyndham Resorts goes to the Wyndham Club Pass system through the new exchange system, a bunch of points go with it for the more desirable in demand resorts hopefully leaving the orphaned time frames (off-season and the units that do not fall into the hands of Club Wyndham Access) open for the people that are not necessarily chasing the more desirable time frames in the newer higher priced resorts.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Easy explaination.  Simply put, I think the re-sale owners of the old Fairfield deeds, points or otherwise, may very well be the big winners when the day is done.  The availability for the traditional UDI weeks under Wyndham Club plus that were sold not through Club Wyndham Access I think may have more availability in Resort Specials and the VIP Windows.
> 
> Even if availability for Wyndham Resorts goes to the Wyndham Club Pass system through the new exchange system, a bunch of points go with it for the more desirable in demand resorts hopefully leaving the orphaned time frames (off-season and the units that do not fall into the hands of Club Wyndham Access) open for the people that are not necessarily chasing the more desirable time frames in the newer higher priced resorts.



WHAT IS THIS DRIBBLE? Are you drooling also?


----------



## vacationhopeful

Corporate Wyndham has just found another way to fleece it's captive market of owners. They added a (current, but sure to rise) $99 fee to its "special" developer only buyers (smucks) to use something that was FREE.

The rational the Customer Service Agents have been grilled to say, "this is going to make MORE inventory available to CWP or CWA owners" could be labeled as "retarded'. (The owners are the members of Worldmark - it is an inventory trade. Plus, the percentage of RESALE owners in Worldmark can't be that far off from CWP or CWA population). 

The ONLY thing that has changed is the ADDED $99 fee and the perceived  "value" of booking vacation time in Worldmark. 

So, to "help" with this problem, Brian should "tweek" his internal exchange function here on TUG ...


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> WHAT IS THIS DRIBBLE? Are you drooling also?



Points go to RCI for a exchange, now that Wyndham Club Pass appears to be operational for the select few based on points being given for what appears to be designated units that formally used to be available to Wyndham Club Plus members, those points, more than likely, will be used to scarf up the better timeframes and resorts from Club Wyndham Access et. al.  This would then presumably leave more off season resorts go to the discount windows.

The mega rentor group would be the ones that could afford to take the $99 fee and pass it on to their customers for the high demand resorts.  I am sure a lot of mega rentors would just use the Pass system and forget to mention they are renting to Wyndham and just call  the person a friend or guest.

This, by the way, is not inaccurate.  If I were a mega rentor, all of my customers would be my friends.  Hey, they are my customers after all.

Maybe Club Wyndham Pass should be re-named Club Wyndham Preferred for the select few.  The subscript could then read, by invitation only.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Easy explaination.  Simply put, I think the re-sale owners of the old Fairfield deeds, points or otherwise, may very well be the big winners when the day is done.  The availability for the traditional UDI weeks under Wyndham Club plus that were sold not through Club Wyndham Access I think may have more availability in Resort Specials and the VIP Windows.
> 
> Even if availability for Wyndham Resorts goes to the Wyndham Club Pass system through the new exchange system, a bunch of points go with it for the more desirable in demand resorts hopefully leaving the orphaned time frames (off-season and the units that do not fall into the hands of Club Wyndham Access) open for the people that are not necessarily chasing the more desirable time frames in the newer higher priced resorts.



Im not saying you are wrong, I just dont understand what you are saying,

You seem to be making a distinction between the old Fairfield resorts and the new UDI resorts, But both are part of club pass. and both are and have been available to all Wyndham points owners. Remember "points are points"

You talk about availability going to Club Pass. as if it leaves Club Wyndham when it does... I dont think thats true. The available Wyndham inventory will still be available to us Wyndham owners,  but at 9 months will be available to a select number of Worldmark owners too

And why do you call out Club Wyndham access?  This inventory is available to all Wyndham points owners at 10 months and whats available at 9 months will become available to Worldmark owners too.  Thats no different than inventory that is not part of CWA


No doubt Wyndham is trying to make points bought from them seem much more valuable than points bought on the secondary market. And to give their salesmen another benefit to talk about (more dots on the map (more vacation choices) is a favorite topic.  But we dont need you trying to add to the confusion with what Linda called "Dribble"  But as we know, "Points are Points" and that wont change with Club Pass

Dont try to draw a line between old Fairfield owners, CWA members, UDI owners etc etc... we all own points and again as you know, but refuse to acknowledge, Points are Points.... If a resale owner wants those Worldmark resorts available to them, all they have to do is buy a few Worldmark Credits.(on the secondary market).


----------



## vacationhopeful

Let me TRY to point out the HOLES in your discourse of words:



lcml11 said:


> Points go to RCI for a exchange (NOWHERES IS RCI mentioned in the Wyndham Club PASS info that the platform used would be RCI), now that Wyndham Club Pass appears to be operational for the select few based on points WHOSE POINTS? Are you saying topics of discussion here on TUG threads?, conversation with CSAs? In your dream state? being given for what appears to be designated units that formally used to be available to Wyndham Club Plus members , those points, more than likely, will be used to scarf up the better timeframes and resorts from Club Wyndham Access et. al. SINCE no CWP or CWA members can book those units til the 9 month mark, how good will the demand be -- if NOT taken by the DEEDED owners of those resorts or by the points deeded into CWA  This would then presumably leave more off season resorts go to the discount windows. OFF season units are usually available after the ARP booking window FOR all CWA/CWP owners to book.
> 
> The mega rentor group The current info I have is, rentals would NOT be allowed would be the ones that could afford to take the $99 fee and pass it on to their customers for the high demand resorts Again, YOU are assuming HIGH DEMAND times less than 10 months out WOULD NOT have been booked during the ARP process..



Robert,
It is HARD to understand your logic. You believe "the mega renter group" is a group - almost all of them are individuals or families who brought points to use for retirement stays, the extended family vacations events --- just like YOUR mother. You are managing HER original Platinum ownership - it is fortunate YOU have the MONEY to pay for the MFs and the time to USE the vacation stays personally. And whether you ask for $$$ from your siblings, kids, or cousins, is NONE of my business. And I don't CARE, if some of YOUR GUESTS are your newly discussed by YOU, are _"FRIENDS with green backs_".

Your distain for other owners use of their vacation points MATCHES the sales staff unhappiness SALES STAFF feels towards MANY owners who did not enrich the sales department by spending 100 fold MORE for their Wyndham vacation points. These are the same OWNERS who pay the exact SAME MFs are YOU and YOUR family - but get less and less access and usage each year. REMEMBER, VIP status DOES NOT TRANSFER to resale owners -- so the sales department is NOT continuing to FUND/PAY for those benefits/discounts/upgrades. And don't even TRY to imply that Wyndham FUNDED those benefits at the initial time of purchase. Perhaps, Wyndham ISSUE is, SALES are harder at those inflated developer prices due to the INTERNET, the ECOMONY, fewer GOLDEN FLEECEable retirees. resort market is saturated and "difficult to get" funding to build those shiney NEW resorts. 

WHY should there be a continual destruction of benefits to "RESALE" owners?  If Wyndham was REALLY interested in keeping the value in their developer points, Wyndham SHOULD buy the cheap Wyndham points off eBAY. A dollar per 1k of points -- all they could possible need ... just with the click of a mouse.


----------



## comicbookman

ronparise said:


> Im not saying you are wrong, I just dont understand what you are saying,
> 
> You seem to be making a distinction between the old Fairfield resorts and the new UDI resorts, But both are part of club pass. and both are and have been available to all Wyndham points owners. Remember "points are points"
> 
> You talk about availability going to Club Pass. as if it leaves Club Wyndham when it does... I dont think thats true. The available Wyndham inventory will still be available to us Wyndham owners,  but at 9 months will be available to a select number of Worldmark owners too
> 
> And why do you call out Club Wyndham access?  This inventory is available to all Wyndham points owners at 10 months and whats available at 9 months will become available to Worldmark owners too.  Thats no different than inventory that is not part of CWA
> 
> 
> No doubt Wyndham is trying to make points bought from them seem much more valuable than points bought on the secondary market. And to give their salesmen another benefit to talk about (more dots on the map (more vacation choices) is a favorite topic.  But we dont need you trying to add to the confusion with what Linda called "Dribble"  But as we know, "Points are Points" and that wont change with Club Pass
> 
> Dont try to draw a line between old Fairfield owners, CWA members, UDI owners etc etc... we all own points and again as you know, but refuse to acknowledge, Points are Points.... If a resale owner wants those Worldmark resorts available to them, all they have to do is buy a few Worldmark Credits.(on the secondary market).



Thanks Ron and Linda for calling them as you see them.  This time he makes even less sense than usual.  I have to say his posts are definitely a barrier to new members as well as members like me who are trying to absorb as much useful information as possible. At least, since I read everything, I usually learn from the explanations as to why he is in his own little world.


----------



## scootr5

comicbookman said:


> Thanks Ron and Linda for calling them as you see them.  This time he makes even less sense than usual.  I have to say his posts are definitely a barrier to new members as well as members like me who are trying to absorb as much useful information as possible. At least, since I read everything, I usually learn from the explanations as to why he is in his own little world.



It gets even more difficult to follow since he uses two different user names.


----------



## vacationhopeful

scootr5 said:


> It gets even more difficult to follow since he uses two different user names.



Esp when he quotes his "other" self ...:hysterical::ignore:

And that is WHY I use the "Robert" title to address whichever alter-ego or personality is posting ... be it either rrlongwell or lcml11.


----------



## Deb from NC

I'm a little confused ...as a lowly Wyndham resale owner,  I did notice that I can no longer see some of the Worldmark resorts (eg-Estes Park, West Yellowstone) that I used to be able to see when I was looking on line for a reservation.  Do I understand correctly that now I could only reserve those at 9 months out and by paying a $ 99 fee ?  (I normally use almost all my points at my home resort OTA anyway, so this won't matter much, but I do want to understand....). Or can I not get anything in Worldmark at all ?
thanks, Deb


----------



## vacationhopeful

Deb,
There is little known (as in print to us owners) at this time.

Yes, that is WHY the Worldmark resorts are NOT showing up. 

Yes, the Wyndham Pass program has a $99 "exchange fee" (as we believe from other documents).

No, VIP discounts and upgrades will NOT be happening.

As a resale owner with only resale points, it is a crap shoot. One gleeful poster is more than happy to dance on the heads of owners of resale points.

I, myself, personally, talked to a member of Owner Care this AM (snow storm and other issue) who with a question or two, told me there had been NO TRAINING on RESALE Points as unusable with the PASS system. And as far as the $99 fee, each member number (according to her) gets 1 FREE yearly "booking" fee of $99 per year.

I believe other links provided earlier, do have the "NO CAN USE in PASS" for resale points. Of course, knowing the "GREAT and WONDERFUL OZ "computer system, Wyndham may not have that ownership issue available on their reservation system to enable the distinction or accounting process.


----------



## Deb from NC

Hi Linda,
Thanks for your help !  I will be interested to see how all of this shakes out....
It would have been nice if Wyndham had let us know what they were doing before taking resorts away, but that seems to be fairly typical operating procedure for them


----------



## comicbookman

As someone who owns both resale and developer (moron me) points the only world marks visible to me are the 2 in Australia.  This confirms what others have said that pre rollout for the pass program pretty much all the worldmarks are off the table.  fortunately for me, I have never looked to the worldmark locations as a places I wanted to go, so nothing lost.


----------



## ronparise

Deb from NC said:


> Hi Linda,
> Thanks for your help !  I will be interested to see how all of this shakes out....
> It would have been nice if Wyndham had let us know what they were doing before taking resorts away, but that seems to be fairly typical operating procedure for them



nothing was taken away. All the Club Wyndham resorts are still there for you to enjoy

The various associates and affiliates can come and go


----------



## Deb from NC

ronparise said:


> nothing was taken away. All the Club Wyndham resorts are still there for you to enjoy
> 
> The various associates and affiliates can come and go



Thank goodness!  So I guess the Worldmarks I used to see were considered affiliates ?  (I honestly don't know..just asking)   As long as I still have access
to my "usual" Wyndham resorts, I'll be content....


----------



## ronparise

Deb from NC said:


> Thank goodness!  So I guess the Worldmarks I used to see were considered affiliates ?  (I honestly don't know..just asking)   As long as I still have access
> to my "usual" Wyndham resorts, I'll be content....



You used to "see" them, but did you ever try to reserve one?  Worldmark owners used to "see" Wyndham resorts too

As I understood it there were only 2 units made available. This was done (in my opinion) so wyndham could put more dots on the map...Important to the salesman, but in practice, pretty meaningless.

Club pass promises to be better, for folks that bought directly from the developer


----------



## presley

Deb from NC said:


> Thank goodness!  So I guess the Worldmarks I used to see were considered affiliates ?  (I honestly don't know..just asking)   As long as I still have access
> to my "usual" Wyndham resorts, I'll be content....



Yes.  If you own Wyndham, anything that isn't Wydham that you use your points for is an affiliate.  Affiliations can come and go.


----------



## Deb from NC

ronparise said:


> You used to "see" them, but did you ever try to reserve one?  Worldmark owners used to "see" Wyndham resorts too
> 
> Actually I never did try to reserve one!  So maybe I couldn't have anyway ?
> I guess I really won't miss them too much since I never even tried to reserve a night at one.... LOL !


----------



## comicbookman

I looked for availability a couple of times, but never found any.  Wyndham has enough resorts for my needs.


----------



## TUGBrian

not sure if this is covered or not, but someone mailed me a letter that was taped to their door at governors green recently that invited them to come sit in a presentation to hear about CLUB PASS and they were providing a free open enrollment to existing owners.

(forgive me if this is not new info, was a long thread, and I just felt obligated to mention this letter since the person took the time to mail it to me)


----------



## ronparise

TUGBrian said:


> not sure if this is covered or not, but someone mailed me a letter that was taped to their door at governors green recently that invited them to come sit in a presentation to hear about CLUB PASS and they were providing a free open enrollment to existing owners.
> 
> (forgive me if this is not new info, was a long thread, and I just felt obligated to mention this letter since the person took the time to mail it to me)



Thanks Bryan

 heres what the Club Pass disclosure says

All members of current Affiliated Programs are automatically enrolled in WYNDHAM Club Pass

so its free whether you go to a presentation or not


----------



## Sandi Bo

*"free" to look*

But $99 to book  (does that really count as free)?

I just don't see any winners here but Wyndham.  

I'm not sure I've ever booked a WorldMark.  Actually, yes I have, but then cancelled it (Anaheim). Now I can't see the inventory let alone book something, to me that means I've lost something.

Probably not that big a deal for me, as others have said, there are plenty of Wyndham to go around for me, I can live without WorldMark.  I imagine if I ever do want to book a WorldMark I'll be looking for someone to rent it from (vs. use Club Pass).

My bigger concern is 'what next Wynhdam'.


----------



## uscav8r

Deb from NC said:


> I'm a little confused ...as a lowly Wyndham resale owner,  I did notice that I can no longer see some of the Worldmark resorts (eg-Estes Park, West Yellowstone) that I used to be able to see when I was looking on line for a reservation.  Do I understand correctly that now I could only reserve those at 9 months out and by paying a $ 99 fee ?  (I normally use almost all my points at my home resort OTA anyway, so this won't matter much, but I do want to understand....). Or can I not get anything in Worldmark at all ?
> 
> thanks, Deb




As far as i have read on TUG, the Pass program is for retail/developer points. Resale supposedly won't have access to it. Of course, if you want to get to a Worldmark, you could ask an owner for a rental or exchange. I wonder who might be one... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lcml11

Interesting thread.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195580&page=2


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195580&page=2



What makes that particular thread regarding sales lies and speculation on the Pass program more interesting than any of the myriad others?


----------



## vacationhopeful

scootr5 said:


> What makes that particular thread regarding sales lies and speculation on the Pass program more interesting than any of the myriad others?



Robert posted on it - again and again, just pointing to other threads he has posted on. If you go to that post, he refers to this thread via his last post on that thread.

Original thought on his part???? Perhaps his true talent is as a typist or parrot or as a talking head for the mystic or psychic universe? 

Robert, do you live in Cassadaga, FL?

Added: Clean and happy thoughts, please. Cluttering up the universe with negativity is NOT good! You know who I am channeling this to.


----------



## comicbookman

vacationhopeful said:


> Robert posted on it - again and again, just pointing to other threads he has posted on. If you go to that post, he refers to this thread via his last post on that thread.



So now he is talking to himself across threads?  Why can't we just give him some threads of his own and he can talk to himself across those and stop misinforming the newbies?


----------



## rleigh

In my view, they are taking something away from me. As a WM owner, I used to be able to book some affiliates the same as any other WM resort, without any $99 fee.

The inventory and resorts were not guaranteed year to year. Some were added, some taken away.

But I still had the choice to use what was available, and I did.


----------



## vacationhopeful

rleigh said:


> In my view, they are taking something away from me. As a WM owner, I used to be able to book some affiliates the same as any other WM resort, *without any $99 fee.*
> 
> The inventory and resorts were not guaranteed year to year. Some were added, some taken away.
> 
> But I still had the choice to use what was available, and I did.



You are missing the point -- you were NOT paying no $99 fee to corporate Wyndham. Now you are. 

As a sales driven corporate entity, Wyndham also wants its market for developer purchases to be _special_, and _different_ than the points or credits from that used YARD SALE website with yard sale prices, like eBAY. Hence, you can only book across the various "selective resorts" with the "special and higher price points". You can only become VIP it you have enough developer paid for points. Corporate branding - no different than real Gucci and fake Gucci in a marketing person's eyes. Besides, who would buy a used, but real Gucci?

Except the marketing people forget, all timeshare units are USED. Someone else sat on that sofa before me and slept in that bed before me. And mainly my USED (brought off eBAY) points work just like the full price (developer) except achieving the VIP status and now, no access with those point with the not-yet-turned-on-PASS option. They did succeed in turning off access to the affiliate resorts - but as any systems' person will tell you --- off is simple; getting the ON functions right, much harder.


----------



## rleigh

vacationhopeful said:


> You are missing the point -- you were NOT paying no $99 fee to corporate Wyndham. Now you are.
> 
> As a sales driven corporate entity, Wyndham also wants its market for developer purchases to be _special_, and _different_ than the points or credits from that used YARD SALE website with yard sale prices, like eBAY. Hence, you can only book across the various "selective resorts" with the "special and higher price points". You can only become VIP it you have enough developer paid for points. Corporate branding - no different than real Gucci and fake Gucci in a marketing person's eyes. Besides, who would buy a used, but real Gucci?
> 
> Except the marketing people forget, all timeshare units are USED. Someone else sat on that sofa before me and slept in that bed before me. And mainly my USED (brought off eBAY) points work just like the full price (developer) except achieving the VIP status and now, no access with those point with the not-yet-turned-on-PASS option. They did succeed in turning off access to the affiliate resorts - but as any systems' person will tell you --- off is simple; getting the ON functions right, much harder.



True, I am totally missing your point. You are talking over and above my head. I'm not getting into any of that. I think you're missing _my_ point. I am simply saying that from my POV, how it affects me and only me (and my family) is that I have to shell out $99 where I didn't before.  And I probably won't do it.

It cost $0 before. No fee, just credits or cents per credit, just as if I was booking WM.


----------



## lcml11

rleigh said:


> In my view, they are taking something away from me. As a WM owner, I used to be able to book some affiliates the same as any other WM resort, without any $99 fee.
> 
> The inventory and resorts were not guaranteed year to year. Some were added, some taken away.
> 
> But I still had the choice to use what was available, and I did.



Simply put, I agree.  So goes it the Wyndham Club Plus owners for access to some Worldmark units.


----------



## vacationhopeful

rleigh said:


> ...
> It cost $0 before. No fee, just credits or cents per credit, just as if I was booking WM.



That is my point (and yours) -- NO $99 before for either YOU in Worldmark or ME in Club Wyndham Plus.

NOW, the "corporate wyndham" entity gets $99 from you and $99 from me ===> YES, we can still use free will and NOT book at the formally Affiliated Resorts. Then we lose not money, but the option of other vacation resorts which were available.

Also, the SALES HYPE of only Developer purchase points (at this point, I can only talk about Wyndham points and not Worldmark credits), will be available to be used in booking the thru the portal of Club Wyndam Pass.


----------



## rleigh

vacationhopeful said:


> That is my point (and yours) -- NO $99 before for either YOU in Worldmark or ME in Club Wyndham Plus.
> 
> NOW, the "corporate wyndham" entity gets $99 from you and $99 from me ===> YES, we can still use free will and NOT book at the formally Affiliated Resorts. Then we lose not money, but the option of other vacation resorts which were available.
> 
> Also, the SALES HYPE of only Developer purchase points (at this point, I can only talk about Wyndham points and not Worldmark credits), will be available to be used in booking the thru the portal of Club Wyndam Pass.



I used to get pretty annoyed about that stuff but as someone here or at WMOwners once said, sometimes ya gotta clear your mind, take a look at the locations you have access to, and realize how lucky you are. Sometimes I try to look through the eyes of a brand new owner, marveling and full of hope lol. You know, the honeymoon phase!

In the big picture it isn't a big deal but when I actually go to do the booking, the $99 may not be possible, so I would choose a WM vacay instead. Maybe that is their intent. 

People who think the $99 doesn't affect anyone haven't seen how I budget money.  I NEVER save for vacations. Horrible at it. But I pay bills. That is why I bought a timeshare. The "prepaid vacation" works well for me.


----------



## massvacationer

vacationhopeful said:


> That is my point (and yours) -- NO $99 before for either YOU in Worldmark or ME in Club Wyndham Plus.
> 
> NOW, the "corporate wyndham" entity gets $99 from you and $99 from me ===> YES, we can still use free will and NOT book at the formally Affiliated Resorts. Then we lose not money, but the option of other vacation resorts which were available.
> 
> Also, the SALES HYPE of only Developer purchase points (at this point, I can only talk about Wyndham points and not Worldmark credits), will be available to be used in booking the thru the portal of Club Wyndam Pass.



FYI.    The latest issue of F&P (Faces and Places Magazine)  has an article on Club Wyndham Pass and it says it will be available to "all owners" starting this summer.  It goes on to say that no new purchases are rquired.  It does not say anything about it being open only to retail purchasers.


----------



## vacationhopeful

massvacationer said:


> FYI.    The latest issue of F&P (Faces and Places Magazine)  has an article on Club Wyndham Pass and it says it will be available to "all owners" starting this summer.  It goes on to say that no new purchases are rquired.  It does not say anything about it being open only to retail purchasers.



I read that this AM also --- and my first thought was, "the salesmen are creating the HYPE to sell more points".

And as I have a just a little computer experience, I figure it would take WYNDHAM another decade before they could update their current reservation system to figure out "resale vs retail" contracts.


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> That is my point (and yours) -- NO $99 before for either YOU in Worldmark or ME in Club Wyndham Plus.
> 
> NOW, the "corporate wyndham" entity gets $99 from you and $99 from me ===> YES, we can still use free will and NOT book at the formally Affiliated Resorts. Then we lose not money, but the option of other vacation resorts which were available.
> 
> Also, the SALES HYPE of only Developer purchase points (at this point, I can only talk about Wyndham points and not Worldmark credits), will be available to be used in booking the thru the portal of Club Wyndam Pass.



As someone who pays a ton of fees to Wyndham, I can tell you wyndhams fee schedule is a sensitive subject to me.   I dont like paying those fees, but because I want the service provided, I do.

A  little inventory made available in one system to the other, was an extra and  not something we were  specifically entitled to by virtue of our owning in one system or the other and paying our maintenance fees.   It was an extra provided by the manager.  It seems to me that Wyndham could have ended the affiliate relationship between Club Wyndham  and World mark at any time. And although some might have been affected,  there would really be nothing to complain about... Kind of like when the gas stations stopped washing your windshield when you bought a few gallons of gas... The price of gas didnt go down, and a gallon didnt get you any more miles, it was just a little extra that was no longer included in the price you paid

So Wyndham ended the affiliate relationship.. Thats done 

And now they have created a new way for you to visit those resorts (or not if all you own is resale)..and this new way will cost you a hundred bucks


----------



## ronparise

massvacationer said:


> FYI.    The latest issue of F&P (Faces and Places Magazine)  has an article on Club Wyndham Pass and it says it will be available to "all owners" starting this summer.  It goes on to say that no new purchases are rquired.  It does not say anything about it being open only to retail purchasers.



Doesnt matter what the Magazine says...resale buyers are not allowed in


----------



## CO skier

massvacationer said:


> FYI.    The latest issue of F&P (Faces and Places Magazine)  has an article on Club Wyndham Pass and it says it will be available to "all owners" starting this summer.  It goes on to say that no new purchases are rquired.  It does not say anything about it being open only to retail purchasers.



The following quote is from the Wyndham Club Pass FAQ:



> 3. Who is eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass?
> All CLUB WYNDHAM and WorldMark by Wyndham owners will be automatically enrolled as a member of the new
> WYNDHAM Club Pass program and may use developer purchased credits for Club Pass reservations.



The magazine article is correct in that Wyndham Club Pass is available to all WorldMark and Wyndham owners.

Did the magazine article make any mention of the second part of the FAQ?  Since only developer purchased points or credits may be used for exchanges, owners with only resale purchases will not derive any benefit from their automatic enrollment in Wyndham Club Pass.


----------



## lcml11

CO skier said:


> The following quote is from the Wyndham Club Pass FAQ:
> 
> 
> 
> The magazine article is correct in that Wyndham Club Pass is available to all WorldMark and Wyndham owners.
> 
> Did the magazine article make any mention of the second part of the FAQ?  Since only developer purchased points or credits may be used for exchanges, owners with only resale purchases will not derive any benefit from their automatic enrollment in Wyndham Club Pass.



I called Wyndham Reservations and specifically asked about re-sale and the Faces and Places comments that appear in this thread.  

At this point in time, they are standing by developer points as the usable points in the program.


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> I called Wyndham Reservations and specifically asked about re-sale and the Faces and Places comments that appear in this thread.
> 
> At this point in time, they are standing by developer points as the usable points in the program.



Is a reservations agent really going to have the info about a program that hasn't even started yet?  Sales would probably have better info at an "update"....


----------



## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> Is a reservations agent really going to have the info about a program that hasn't even started yet?  Sales would probably have better info at an "update"....



Please see post 207 above.

Your plug for the sales staff updates is correct.  If people would post recent sales pitches at the updates, it would be interesting to see what is being said.  The loss of availability etc. for people who do not have recent sales seems to be a theme that  comes up from people that are posting.  Other posts might also give some insights to what is going to the new retail sales buyers and what may or is being lost to the existing owners.

The loss of the Associate availability without a fee seems to be well established at this point.  More info pertaining to Club Wyndham Pass both the positive and negative aspects would be of use.

Please keep posting great ideas on possible sources of information.


----------



## easyrider

ronparise said:


> Thanks Bryan
> 
> heres what the Club Pass disclosure says
> 
> All members of current Affiliated Programs are automatically enrolled in WYNDHAM Club Pass
> 
> so its free whether you go to a presentation or not



Ok, so today I was looking at my WM account for bonus time and noticed all of the Wyndham properties gone from the reservation listings and all of the wm  and wm south pacific on the resort gallery mixed in with the wyndham affiliates.

I read that I can't book wyndham until June. I assume that this is when the wyndham inventory shows up on the wm website ??

Bill


----------



## lcml11

easyrider said:


> Ok, so today I was looking at my WM account for bonus time and noticed all of the Wyndham properties gone from the reservation listings and all of the wm  and wm south pacific on the resort gallery mixed in with the wyndham affiliates.
> 
> I read that I can't book wyndham until June. I assume that this is when the wyndham inventory shows up on the wm website ??
> 
> Bill



That is when you can do an Exchange through Wyndham Club Pass for $199 dollars.  When you say Wyndham Affiliates does that term include the Wyndham Vacation Plus/Access affiliate resorts?  If so, does it give the June message on them?

Destin, Ocean City Md, Lake of the Ozarks, Angle Fire, etc.


----------



## ronparise

The resort map on the Worldmark website now includes Wyndham affiliates, and Vacation International and more

see for your self...click here


The Wyndham affiliates and the Wyndham hotels are not available to me to book (I am not a Travelshare owner which may be the reason) but I can book Vacation Internationale (whatever that is) Click on a Wyndham affiliate and you get the "Club Pass coming message"


By the way the map on the Wyndham side shows the World mark stuff too, and the hotels, but no Club International


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> The resort map on the Worldmark website now includes Wyndham affiliates, and Vacation International and more
> 
> see for your self...click here
> 
> 
> The Wyndham affiliates and the Wyndham hotels are not available to me to book (I am not a Travelshare owner which may be the reason) but I can book Vacation Internationale (whatever that is) Click on a Wyndham affiliate and you get the "Club Pass coming message"
> 
> 
> By the way the map on the Wyndham side shows the World mark stuff too, and the hotels, but no Club International



I had looked at the map on the Wyndham Club Plus/Access side and was totally confused.  Thanks for answering.  

Here are the words of wisdom from Reservations:

Not  sure when they are going to booking for Margaritaville Smokey Mountain.
Separate program from Club Wyndham would have to be a part of the Margaritaville, it will be offered at a sales presentation.

Vacation Internationale  it is unknown if it is going to become part of Club Wyndham Plus/Access at this time.

Thanks for the link. Clicked on one of the Vacation Internationale sites in HI and got this message:

"Resort Overview
O‘ahu is the perfect destination, mixing the heat of the tropics with the hip of urban metropolis. The beauty of O‘ahu glows in its eclectic array of historical sites, attractions and cultures rich in heritage and exotic cuisine. Couple this with hiking, biking, snorkeling and catamaran tours, or just relax on Waikiki Beach and shop at the unique International Marketplace, all within a few minutes’ walk of your home base at Fairway Villa. Discover high-rise luxury on the Ali Wai Canal, with a rooftop recreation deck, including swimming pool, spa, sauna and an amazing panoramic view of Waikiki. With your accommodation needs settled, set out and explore the wonders of Hawai‘i’s ultimate experience, discover your O‘ahu!

Please note: This is not a WorldMark Resort. This property is made available to WorldMark owners through a direct exchange arrangement with Vacation Internationale. A Direct Exchange Fee applies."


----------



## easyrider

lcml11 said:


> That is when you can do an Exchange through Wyndham Club Pass for $199 dollars.  When you say Wyndham Affiliates does that term include the Wyndham Vacation Plus/Access affiliate resorts?  If so, does it give the June message on them?
> 
> Destin, Ocean City Md, Lake of the Ozarks, Angle Fire, etc.




On the WM website the cost is $99 + usual points and housekeeping token to use the wyndham club pass. It looks like a better deal for wyndham owners because the bulk of the resorts offered to WM owners are in areas like Florida, Branson and South Carolina. I don't see any Europe offered to WM but think that WM South Pacific may be offered to Wyndham. 

Then again, I could be wrong. All in all I might like this.

Bill


----------



## lcml11

easyrider said:


> On the WM website the cost is $99 + usual points and housekeeping token to use the wyndham club pass. It looks like a better deal for wyndham owners because the bulk of the resorts offered to WM owners are in areas like Florida, Branson and South Carolina. I don't see any Europe offered to WM but think that WM South Pacific may be offered to Wyndham.
> 
> Then again, I could be wrong. All in all I might like this.
> 
> Bill



Good catch, I meant $99.


----------



## lcml11

*Guest Passes permitted - Worldmark Resorts Available - Program Rules*

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffrweb/pdfs/cw_wyndham_club_pass_supplement.pdf

Price:  Points plus $99 dollars plus a housekeeping credit. Remember, VIP Gold and up do not pay for the HK credit.

If someone would post the corresponding link for WorldMark that shows the program rules etc.  It would be helpful.  Thanks.


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffrweb/pdfs/cw_wyndham_club_pass_supplement.pdf
> 
> Price:  Points plus $99 dollars plus a housekeeping credit. Remember, VIP Gold and up do not pay for the HK credit.
> 
> If someone would post the corresponding link for WorldMark that shows the program rules etc.  It would be helpful.  Thanks.



Thanks for posting... 2 interesting things I noticed... the guest pass is listed at $49, and the cancellation window is listed at 15 days rather than Worldmark's 30.


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> Thanks for posting... 2 interesting things I noticed... the guest pass is listed at $49, and the cancellation window is listed at 15 days rather than Worldmark's 30.



Great catch.  Missed the $49 dollar fee, beats the guest pass fee for the normal non-VIP Wyndham Club/Access owner of $99.  I get 29 free guest passes.  The numbers would be much higher for the mega rentor group that are Platinum.  I am sure they have a lot of friends.  Maybe, to get a feel for the real mega rentor group, they would share how many free ones they get with the mega accounts.

That is two of four big boys for the Club Wyndham Platinum Group.  Guest Passes and Housekeeping credits appear to be in play.  Now I am waiting to see of the 50 percent discount and free upgrades within 60 days make it.

If so, then a Wyndham Club Pass or three might be in play for me.

A dedicated Wyndham Club Pass phone number showed up.  Called it a few minutes age.  Got a recording since it was before 9:00 a.m. eastern time.

"... reservations, call 1-800-797-3112 ... Vacation Planning Center hours of operation are Mon. – Fri., 9 a.m.-10 p.m., and Sat.-Sun., 9 a.m.-8 p.m. ET (subject to change) ..."

Got off the phone with the regular Club Wyndham Plus reservations.  They confirmed that the existing Housekeeping and Guest Certificates can be used other questions are being referred to the dedicated Club Wyndham Pass department.

It is interesting that this is not being run through the clubs regular reservations lines.

Maybe it is time to check with the guy who cuts grass again to see what is really happening.

UPDATE:

Got off the phone a few minutes ago.  Wyndham Club Pass is indeed a seperate operation.  They are not honoring what Wyndham Club Plus Reservations said pertaining to guest passes.  They are going to charge Wyndham Club Plus VIP owners $49 dollars for a guest pass.  VIP discounts will not apply to the Wyndham Club Pass inventory.

They very much have a arrogant attitude on who sets the rules now and who does not regarding Wyndham Club Plus inventory.


----------



## CO skier

For those who can exchange using the Club Pass, there may be some real finds in the Wyndham Club Pass.  Just one example, if I am reading the Club Pass chart correctly:


Steamboat Springs 3 Bedroom, weeks 1-14:

Club Wyndham points, Wyndham unit = 262,400 or about $1575

Wyndham Club Pass, WorldMark unit = 199,000 or about $1200

(A WorldMark owners pays about $815)



Week 15 (ski area is usually closed) using the Club Pass is an even better deal

Wyndham Club Pass, WorldMark unit =133,000 or about $800

(A WorldMark owners pays about $545)


The Wyndham units are somewhat more upscale (drapes instead of blinds), but including the $99 exchange fee, there is still an attractive price difference.

Happy hunting at your favorite, shared resort.


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> For those who can exchange using the Club Pass, there may be some real finds in the Wyndham Club Pass.  Just one example, if I am reading the Club Pass chart correctly:
> 
> 
> Steamboat Springs 3 Bedroom, weeks 1-14:
> 
> Club Wyndham points, Wyndham unit = 262,400 or about $1575
> 
> Wyndham Club Pass, WorldMark unit = 199,000 or about $1200
> 
> (A WorldMark owners pays about $815)
> 
> 
> 
> Week 15 (ski area is usually closed) using the Club Pass is an even better deal
> 
> Wyndham Club Pass, WorldMark unit =133,000 or about $800
> 
> (A WorldMark owners pays about $545)
> 
> 
> The Wyndham units are somewhat more upscale (drapes instead of blinds), but including the $99 exchange fee, there is still an attractive price difference.
> 
> Happy hunting at your favorite, shared resort.



That was my feeling from he beginning...Worldmark owners would get the better deal...This confirms it


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> That was my feeling from he beginning...Worldmark owners would get the better deal...This confirms it



No doubt in my mind.


----------



## GregT

lcml11 said:


> If someone would post the corresponding link for WorldMark that shows the program rules etc.  It would be helpful.  Thanks.



I can't find it -- please let me know if you come across it.  Thanks!


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> That was my feeling from he beginning...Worldmark owners would get the better deal...This confirms it



Steamboat Springs and some other resorts have always been a better deal for WorldMark owners.

What is interesting is that a Club Wyndham owner can get a better deal (including the exchange fee) exchanging into a WorldMark unit at Steamboat through the Club Pass than they can get booking directly using their points.


----------



## lcml11

GregT said:


> I can't find it -- please let me know if you come across it.  Thanks!



Sure will  Thanks for checking.


----------



## am1

Remember the cost to buy into the two systems when deciding who gets the better deal.


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> Remember the cost to buy into the two systems when deciding who gets the better deal.



Or,maybe if someone in not already committed  to this type of MO maybe just look at non-Wyndham Systems.  If this is what it appears to be shaping up to then maybe ... 

If Club Wyndham Pass is now the new Top Dog when it comes to rule making the rules on what was former availability to both clubs ...  

Maybe the sales staff that push variations of theme that Club Wyndham Plus is being broken up for availability purposes are right, then there maybe is no percentage to joining Wyndham if contracts owned are less than one or two.


----------



## CO skier

am1 said:


> Remember the cost to buy into the two systems when deciding who gets the better deal.



Consider, too, that the WorldMark owner can make their reservation at 13 months; the Club Pass exchanger only has access at 9-months when there may only be less than a week, or nothing, available.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Or,maybe if someone in not already committed  to this type of MO maybe just look at non-Wyndham Systems.  If this is what it appears to be shaping up to then maybe ...
> 
> If Club Wyndham Pass is now the new Top Dog when it comes to rule making the rules on what was former availability to both clubs ...
> 
> Maybe the sales staff that push variations of theme that Club Wyndham Plus is being broken up for availability purposes are right, then there maybe is no percentage to joining Wyndham if contracts owned are less than one or two.



Duh? What are you saying -- 3 paragraphs and nothing that I understand or can even figure out what you are talking about...

Wait, I know what is wrong -- you forgot to quote another of your earlier posts.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Or,maybe if someone in not already committed  to this type of MO maybe just look at non-Wyndham Systems.  If this is what it appears to be shaping up to then maybe ...
> 
> If Club Wyndham Pass is now the new Top Dog when it comes to rule making the rules on what was former availability to both clubs ...
> 
> Maybe the sales staff that push variations of theme that Club Wyndham Plus is being broken up for availability purposes are right, then there maybe is no percentage to joining Wyndham if contracts owned are less than one or two.



Is there someone that can translate this for me?


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Duh? What are you saying -- 3 paragraphs and nothing that I understand or can even figure out what you are talking about...
> 
> Wait, I know what is wrong -- you forgot to quote another of your earlier posts.



or one of your's


----------



## rhonda

ronparise said:


> Is there someone that can translate this for me?


I _think_ the post boils down to: Wyndham Club Pass' might _drive away_ developer sales.

I'm getting this from the fragments:
"... maybe just look at non-Wyndham Systems"
"... maybe is no percentage (advantage?) to joining Wyndham"


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> or one of your's



Some posters have suggested Shell Vacation Club and WorldMark as alternatives to Club Wyndham Plus/Access.  However, the problem with these systems as alternatives is that WorldMark is already involved with the Club Pass System and Shell Vacation Club may soon be also.


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> Or,maybe if someone in not already committed  to this type of MO maybe just look at non-Wyndham Systems.  If this is what it appears to be shaping up to then maybe ...
> 
> If Club Wyndham Pass is now the new Top Dog when it comes to rule making the rules on what was former availability to both clubs ...
> 
> Maybe the sales staff that push variations of theme that Club Wyndham Plus is being broken up for availability purposes are right, then there maybe is no percentage to joining Wyndham if contracts owned are less than one or two.



We need Mr. Longwell to translate for Mr. Longwell.  Maybe if we double the nonsense some sense will emerge.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffrweb/pdfs/cw_wyndham_club_pass_supplement.pdf
> 
> Price:  Points plus $99 dollars plus a housekeeping credit. Remember, VIP Gold and up do not pay for the HK credit.
> 
> If someone would post the corresponding link for WorldMark that shows the program rules etc.  It would be helpful.  Thanks.






GregT said:


> I can't find it -- please let me know if you come across it.  Thanks!



Here you go

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/wbwwyndhamclubpasssupplement.pdf


----------



## uscav8r

lcml11 said:


> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffrweb/pdfs/cw_wyndham_club_pass_supplement.pdf
> 
> Price:  Points plus $99 dollars plus a housekeeping credit. Remember, VIP Gold and up do not pay for the HK credit.
> 
> If someone would post the corresponding link for WorldMark that shows the program rules etc.  It would be helpful.  Thanks.



Don't forget about us lowly VIP Silver owners who have unlimited housekeeping as well. Perhaps you really meant to say that a Reservation Transaction is used with the exception of VIP Gold and up, for whom RTs are unlimited.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Here you go
> 
> https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/wbwwyndhamclubpasssupplement.pdf



Thanks for the information.


----------



## lcml11

uscav8r said:


> Don't forget about us lowly VIP Silver owners who have unlimited housekeeping as well. Perhaps you really meant to say that a Reservation Transaction is used with the exception of VIP Gold and up, for whom RTs are unlimited.



Did not mean to leave Silver out.  Just do not know much about that one.


----------



## rhonda

ronparise said:


> Here you go
> 
> https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/wbwwyndhamclubpasssupplement.pdf


Thanks for this! I'm guessing typo on page 50 for Ocean Boulevard, Tower 1.  Shouldn't the highlight be on weeks 26-31 rather than as shown?


----------



## GregT

ronparise said:


> Here you go
> 
> https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/wbwwyndhamclubpasssupplement.pdf



Ron, thank you -- happy to have this.

Best,

Greg


----------



## lcml11

I know this is unlikely, but has anyone bought from Wyndham lately and tried to schedule under Club Wyndham Pass under the early booking window for this group?


----------



## ronparise

GregT said:


> Ron, thank you -- happy to have this.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



You are welcome...but all I did is lift the link from the WMowners.com forum

I still havent found it on the website


----------



## VivianLynne

lcml11 said:


> I know this is unlikely, but has anyone bought from Wyndham lately and tried to schedule under Club Wyndham Pass under the early booking window for this group?



Not me - but I could do an Owner's Update at Shawnee tomorrow -- pay for my gas. Hope they have food - their coffee since they got rid of the fancy single pack machine (not the k-cup stuff) could be called swill. And I bring my own bagel from the Shawnee General Store - toasted warm onion with cream cheese -always got me out of there in under 15 minutes if I got the 9AM appointment.


----------



## lcml11

VivianLynne said:


> Not me - but I could do an Owner's Update at Shawnee tomorrow -- pay for my gas. Hope they have food - their coffee since they got rid of the fancy single pack machine (not the k-cup stuff) could be called swill. And I bring my own bagel from the Shawnee General Store - toasted warm onion with cream cheese -always got me out of there in under 15 minutes if I got the 9AM appointment.



You are missing out at the general store, get the full breakfast.


----------



## ahenry1957

Can ANYBODY put into simple laymans terms what the He#$% Club Pass is all about and how will it effect us resale points people?
I aint dumb, hard headed at times, but just need to know, Thanks


----------



## ronparise

ahenry1957 said:


> Can ANYBODY put into simple laymans terms what the He#$% Club Pass is all about and how will it effect us resale points people?
> I aint dumb, hard headed at times, but just need to know, Thanks



Last part of your question first

how will it effect us resale points people?

It wont affect resale owners at all

Club Pass will allow the Worldmark members to book Club Wyndham  resorts with their credits at 9 months....and Club Wyndham owners to book Worldmark resorts with their points at 9 months.   Restricted to developer purchased points and credits only

Some owners from both clubs are concerned that the other club owners/members will take more than their fair share of the "best" resorts and times from "our" club.  I dont see it.  There are meant to be audits to keep a balance, and I said this before..."what difference does it make if a Wyndham owner makes a Wyndham reservation, at 9 months, of if they exchange with a Worldmark owner who makes the same reservation"


----------



## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> You are welcome...but all I did is lift the link from the WMowners.com forum
> 
> I still havent found it on the website



On the WorldMark site, in the resort gallery main page, select any Club pass resort from the map and you will find the Club Pass document link on the page for that resort.  (Two clicks from the resort gallery map page)


----------



## bnoble

> what the He#$% Club Pass is all about and how will it effect us resale points people?


The short version: Club Pass allows Wyndham owners to book WorldMark inventory and vice versa with their developer-purchased points. There is conversion rate between Club Wyndham points and WorldMark credits to manage the process, and a $99 fee for doing so.  You cannot use resale points to make such reservations.

The only impact on resale-only owners is that WorldMark resorts that used to be Affiliate/Associate-only are no longer available.  However, such Affiliate/Associate resorts had so little inventory cross between the two systems that for all practical purposes there is no change.


----------



## am1

bnoble said:


> The only impact on resale-only owners is that WorldMark resorts that used to be Affiliate/Associate-only are no longer available.  However, such Affiliate/Associate resorts had so little inventory cross between the two systems that for all practical purposes there is no change.



And more people are chasing high demand weeks at Wyndham/worldmark resorts.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> And more people are chasing high demand weeks at Wyndham/worldmark resorts.



Thats not true...

what difference does it make if a Wyndham owner is trying to reserve a high demand week at a Wyndham resort, or if he exchanges, and its a Worldmark owner trying to reserve that week

either way the availability at 9 months is the same, and the number of people chasing those reservations is the same.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Thats not true...
> 
> what difference does it make if a Wyndham owner is trying to reserve a high demand week at a Wyndham resort, or if he exchanges, and its a Worldmark owner trying to reserve that week
> 
> either way the availability at 9 months is the same, and the number of people chasing those reservations is the same.



Other than pulling high demand weeks from both Clubs at the 9 month minus a few seconds point, that would be a maybe.

My guess is that the primary competition for the high demand weeks that make it to the 9 month point will be snapped up by high point account holders within a few minutes of the opening bell for anything worth having.

This, if it occurs, probably would affect both re-sale buyers and all others.


----------



## ronparise

The high demand weeks in both clubs are gone well before the 9 month mark. so opening up whats left to both memberships will not be a big deal


----------



## cotraveller

lcml11 said:


> My guess is that the primary competition for the high demand weeks that make it to the 9 month point will be snapped up by high point account holders within a few minutes of the opening bell for anything worth having.



Good luck with that if you are looking to pick up a high demand WorldMark week.  Any high demand WorldMark weeks will be gone long before 9 months. And any subsequent WorldMark cancellations of those high demand weeks will go to the WorldMark wait list, Wyndham owners will never see them.

Maybe it will work the other way though since Wyndham does not have a wait list.  Maybe I can score some of those high demand Wyndham weeks.


----------



## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> Good luck with that if you are looking to pick up a high demand WorldMark week.  Any high demand WorldMark weeks will be gone long before 9 months. And any subsequent WorldMark cancellations of those high demand weeks will go to the WorldMark wait list, Wyndham owners will never see them.
> 
> Maybe it will work the other way though since Wyndham does not have a wait list.  Maybe I can score some of those high demand Wyndham weeks.



If you are quicker than Ron, maybe you can get a bunch of them.  Remember, at the opening bell, he is pre-occupied with Marti-Grass.


----------



## am1

High demand Wyndham weeks are available inside 9 months to check in.  

I have no interest in booking Worldmark with Wyndam points and no interest in booking Wyndham with Worldmark points.  

As a Wyndham owner I want the less people possible trying to book the weeks I want.  



ronparise said:


> The high demand weeks in both clubs are gone well before the 9 month mark. so opening up whats left to both memberships will not be a big deal


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> High demand Wyndham weeks are available inside 9 months to check in.
> 
> I have no interest in booking Worldmark with Wyndam points and no interest in booking Wyndham with Worldmark points.
> 
> As a Wyndham owner I want the less people possible trying to book the weeks I want.



There will be no more or no less people trying to book the weeks you want.. except that this program may make it easier for the salesmen to sell (and bring more owners into the systems


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> High demand Wyndham weeks are available inside 9 months to check in.
> 
> I have no interest in booking Worldmark with Wyndam points and no interest in booking Wyndham with Worldmark points.
> 
> As a Wyndham owner I want the less people possible trying to book the weeks I want.



True statement, have done it a number of times.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> There will be no more or no less people trying to book the weeks you want.. except that this program may make it easier for the salesmen to sell (and bring more owners into the systems



Selling availability to the Wyndham Club Pass system does seem be coming into vogue with Sales Staff.


----------



## am1

ronparise said:


> There will be no more or no less people trying to book the weeks you want.. except that this program may make it easier for the salesmen to sell (and bring more owners into the systems



If all Wyndham and Worldmark owners able to search then I think that there will.  Worldmark owners are not going to be searching and booking dog weeks.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> If you are quicker than Ron, maybe you can get a bunch of them.  Remember, at the opening bell, he is pre-occupied with Marti-Grass.



perfect example.

There will not be any Worldmark or Wyndham inventory at nine months before check in for Mardi Gras.  Ita all gone 10 minutes inside 13 months (Worldmarks was gone this year 13 months and 1 day before check in,


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> If all Wyndham and Worldmark owners able to search then I think that there will.  Worldmark owners are not going to be searching and booking dog weeks.



and neither will Wyndham owners be searching for worldmark be searching for dog weeks


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Selling availability to the Wyndham Club Pass system does seem be coming into vogue with Sales Staff.



There is a card on the sales desk at Reunion pimping Club Pass


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> True statement, have done it a number of times.



sure there are high demand times available at 9 months and they will still be there until someone reserves them...it could be a system owner, or someone standing in their place, having done an exchange


----------



## bnoble

> And more people are chasing high demand weeks at Wyndham/worldmark resorts.


This cuts both ways---there are more people, but also more high demand weeks, because those people have access to both systems.  It should average out over time, IMO.


----------



## uscav8r

am1 said:


> High demand Wyndham weeks are available inside 9 months to check in.
> 
> I have no interest in booking Worldmark with Wyndam points and no interest in booking Wyndham with Worldmark points.
> 
> As a Wyndham owner I want the less people possible trying to book the weeks I want.



High demand might be open at 9 months, but certainly not the highest demand. 

The name of the game is to book as early as possible in both systems. Myrtle Beach in summer and Steamboat Springs for Christmas/New Years will not see any different booking patterns. Just about everything will be booked by the first week (if not first day) of SRP anyway. 

Arguably, this could open up some Prime availability in Wyndham for the SRP 10 month booking window as some Wyndham owners may hold out in hopes of getting a Worldmark at the 9-month window. Then inside of 9 months perhaps there may be slightly less Prime in Wyndham. 

I don't know that there will be huge amounts of cross-pollination. WM owners tend to like their drive-to style of vacationing and most Wyndham is in the Midwest and East Coast. If I were to venture a guess, the biggest impact of WM Pass users on Wyndham would be on the Mountain and Southwest (and perhaps Hawaii for other reasons) resort locations. 

I tend to agree with those who have said that most Pass activity will occur at the 2nd or 3rd tier resort/season combos. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lcml11

uscav8r said:


> High demand might be open at 9 months, but certainly not the highest demand.
> 
> The name of the game is to book as early as possible in both systems. Myrtle Beach in summer and Steamboat Springs for Christmas/New Years will not see any different booking patterns. Just about everything will be booked by the first week (if not first day) of SRP anyway.
> 
> Arguably, this could open up some Prime availability in Wyndham for the SRP 10 month booking window as some Wyndham owners may hold out in hopes of getting a Worldmark at the 9-month window. Then inside of 9 months perhaps there may be slightly less Prime in Wyndham.
> 
> I don't know that there will be huge amounts of cross-pollination. WM owners tend to like their drive-to style of vacationing and most Wyndham is in the Midwest and East Coast. If I were to venture a guess, the biggest impact of WM Pass users on Wyndham would be on the Mountain and Southwest (and perhaps Hawaii for other reasons) resort locations.
> 
> I tend to agree with those who have said that most Pass activity will occur at the 2nd or 3rd tier resort/season combos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Hopefully, the older Wyndham Vacation Resorts that were part of the legacy Fairfield will be the big loser in this game.  That is where I like to go and maybe, just maybe, more and more availability will show up in the 60 day window.  Anyone hear anything lately about Wyndham Club Access getting some availability for Shell Affiliates?


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Hopefully, the older Wyndham Vacation Resorts that were part of the legacy Fairfield will be the big loser in this game.  That is where I like to go and maybe, just maybe, more and more availability will show up in the 60 day window.



Let me understand your math skills --- you own Platinum Wyndham UDI points. WHY in the world would YOU THINK your older Wyndham resorts would HAVE ANY MORE availability at the 60 day window than they NOW DO? DUH???

If people are going to wait to book using their Worldmark credits, pay the exchange fee ($99), get NO discount or unit upgrade using the PASS option .... WOULD they NOT be SMARTER than a 3rd grader to RENT that reservation from a Platinum owner (like yourself) and get some discount off the Platinum owner's booking discount?

That is called SAME OLD, SAME OLD ... You might use your Wyndham Points to book exciting NEW and far off places, but those long plane flights and strange food on the West Coast, will most likely be happening just like they have done for you in the past 5 years --- did you ever book a West Coast affiliated? Every year or JUST once every 5 years?


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Hopefully, the older Wyndham Vacation Resorts that were part of the legacy Fairfield will be the big loser in this game.  That is where I like to go and maybe, just maybe, more and more availability will show up in the 60 day window.



i dont understand your obsession with winners and losers...and to suggest a resort will lose is really over the top
No one wins, and no one loses. all thats happening is that some owners will have additional opportunity

You want gossip?  go to WMowners.com, register, and then read to your hearts content


----------



## lcml11

If Wyndham Club Pass becomes successful, then existing developer points move to Club Pass for use by Worldmark owners.  These points can no longer be used in the discount periods, VIP or Resort Specials.  Less points points available to use in the discount window from others, hopefully, the more availability for the hold outs in the Old Fairfield resorts.

Also, if, in fact, a crack down on the book, cancel, rebook is in progress or about to start, this would also reduce the competition for the 60 day and under discount groups  

If memory serves, one mega rentor has already indicated something to the effect they book high demand weeks then cancel and re-book in the discount window leaving a bunch of points to do with what he wants.  Presumably, to rent out getting more of the 60 day and under discounts.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> If Wyndham Club Pass becomes successful, then existing developer points move to Club Pass for use by Worldmark owners.  These points can no longer be used in the discount periods, VIP or Resort Specials.  Less points points available to use in the discount window from others, hopefully, the more availability for the hold outs in the Old Fairfield resorts.
> 
> Also, if, in fact, a crack down on the book, cancel, rebook is in progress or about to start, this would also reduce the competition for the 60 day and under discount groups
> 
> If memory serves, one mega rentor has already indicated something to the effect they book high demand weeks then cancel and re-book in the discount window leaving a bunch of points to do with what he wants.  Presumably, to rent out getting more of the 60 day and under discounts.



I may be wrong about how this Club Pass thing will work but Im really sure about this:  

Wyndham points will not move to Club Pass for use by Worldmark owners any more than Worldmark Credits will move to Club Pass for use by Wyndham  owners


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I may be wrong about how this Club Pass thing will work but Im really sure about this:
> 
> Wyndham points will not move to Club Pass for use by Worldmark owners any more than Worldmark Credits will move to Club Pass for use by Wyndham  owners



Please consult the points charts through the links that have been posted to the Wyndham Vacation Resorts and Worldmark sites that show how many points are needed as the respective club currency.  

The exchange rates have been set.

Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club. 

I will leave the difference between your position on this and that of Wyndham (as released on behalf of the clubs) for you and Wyndham to work out.  

In the mean time, the points that go to Wyndham Club Pass cannot be brought back to Wyndham Club Plus reservations by the normal owner of Wyndham Club Plus/Access units.  Just say good-bye to them and to the reservations that they may have otherwise received within the Wyndham Club Plus/Access discount system.

While you are saying good byes, you may also want to say good bye to the high demand reservations that used to be available through the Wyndham Club Plus/Access program that will probably be scarfed up by WorldMark owners.  I believe another poster who indicated that WorldMark high demand inventory is already going to be gone by the nine month point.  So it does not appear there is going to be an equal exchange system for high demand weeks.

By the way, can you provide any sources from Wyndham that back up your position?

One last point on this post.  If memory serves, one poster made reference to a card(s) being put out at a resort hyping Wyndham Club Pass.  Maybe the people that do not believe what Wyndham is saying in their written releases should go to one of the sales presentations hyping this program and the availabilities that will become available through it (the one I went to also addressed the issues raised by other people present on the availability limitations coming to pass on people who do not buy into the new program).  The one I went to stressed that I was being labeled a Fairfield Owner and was stressing that I was going to be losing my rights to use my UDI deed at Towers on the Grove and my rights to use my Club Wyndham Access points as a result of the designation.  I did go through Wyndham Corporate on this issue and was assured that this was not going to happen to me.  I wish others caught in the same boat the best of luck.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Please consult the points charts through the links that have been posted to the Wyndham Vacation Resorts and Worldmark sites that show how many points are needed as the respective club currency.
> 
> The exchange rates have been set.
> 
> Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club.
> 
> I will leave the difference between your position on this and that of Wyndham (as released on behalf of the clubs) for you and Wyndham to work out.
> 
> In the mean time, the points that go to Wyndham Club Pass cannot be brought back to Wyndham Club Plus reservations by the normal owner of Wyndham Club Plus/Access units.  Just say good-bye to them and to the reservations that they may have otherwise received within the Wyndham Club Plus/Access discount system.
> 
> While you are saying good byes, you may also want to say good bye to the high demand reservations that used to be available through the Wyndham Club Plus/Access program that will probably be scarfed up by WorldMark owners.  I believe another poster who indicated that WorldMark high demand inventory is already going to be gone by the nine month point.  So it does not appear there is going to be an equal exchange system for high demand weeks.
> 
> By the way, can you provide any sources from Wyndham that back up your position?



My point is that I wont exchange my wyndham points points for worldmark  credits. .. Rather I will exchange my Wyndham points for a Worldmark reservation, or vice -versa

Points and reservations wont go to Club Pass, points and reservations will go through club pass.  The difference my be too subtle for you to grasp, but there is a difference

and this paragraph of yours; makes no sense to me at all.

_ Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club._

  You seem to be saying that there will be some inventory in both systems that is removed and made available only for the other club. I just dont think thats true

As to some Wyndham document to support my position...I could ask you the same question.  The fact is we are both speculating. The difference is that You have offered a WAG  (wild ass guess) and I think I am firmly based on the facts (faq)


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club.
> 
> blah, blah, blah ...



The fantasies you invent for Wyndham Club Pass are truly astounding and would shame the best of the sales liars.

It appears you have rejected this simple and direct FAQ answer in favor of the complex and untrue:

13. Does this [Wyndham Club Pass] change my membership options or benefits within CLUB WYNDHAM Plus?
No. All membership benefits associated with CLUB WYNDHAM Plus remain unchanged as a result of the new
WYNDHAM Club Pass internal exchange program.


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> Please consult the points charts through the links that have been posted to the Wyndham Vacation Resorts and Worldmark sites that show how many points are needed as the respective club currency.
> 
> The exchange rates have been set.
> 
> Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club.
> 
> I will leave the difference between your position on this and that of Wyndham (as released on behalf of the clubs) for you and Wyndham to work out.
> 
> In the mean time, the points that go to Wyndham Club Pass cannot be brought back to Wyndham Club Plus reservations by the normal owner of Wyndham Club Plus/Access units.  Just say good-bye to them and to the reservations that they may have otherwise received within the Wyndham Club Plus/Access discount system.



Now you have strayed from wild speculation off into simple untruth.  Since no points "go" to Wyndham club pass, they do not get trapped.  You statement that owners will loose their right to trade into the existing Wyndham properties (not the affiliates, which can and have come and gone) is ridiculous and sounds suspiciously like what a sales weasel would say.  You do a serious disservice to newer readers of these forums with your absurd statements, self referential, dual personality postings and outright lies.  Also, your inability to do simple math is frightening.  I would suggest you find a liars anonymous forum and hang out there instead.


----------



## uscav8r

lcml11 said:


> ...
> 
> I believe another poster who indicated that WorldMark high demand inventory is already going to be gone by the nine month point.  So it does not appear there is going to be an equal exchange system for high demand weeks.
> 
> ...



I normally try to stay above the fray, but in this case, my point is taken completely out of context and I have to call you on it.

I said that Worldmark inventory for the premium resorts/times is gone by the time they would be available in Pass. I also said that I thought the impact on Wyndham owners would be minimal, if anything.

Furthermore, if a Wyn owner can't find a suitable reservation in WM, then that owner will be right back where he/she started: looking for reservations within the Wyn system, the only difference being that one more month of SRP has passed. And if that Wyn owner stays within Wyn, then there is less avaialbility for the WM owner looking to use Pass.

If it ends up that Wyn owners can't find what they want in WM (or vice versa), then long-term, the behavior will be to simply make Wyn reservations at 13 or 10 months (just like most do now), and avoid "holding out" for Club Pass at 9 months.

If owners can find something they are happy with in the other system (2nd/3rd tier choices), then long term behavior may lead to some added availability to both systems prior to the 9-month period.

BOTTOM LINE: Club Pass is no big deal for anyone, resale or retail.


----------



## uscav8r

lcml11 said:


> ...
> 
> Members of the clubs cannot use their points to get a reservation in their own club.  They can only draw on inventory available in the Wyndham Club Pass system from the other club.
> ...
> By the way, can you provide any sources from Wyndham that back up your position?



To your point: simply WRONG.

Members in either club are still able to make ARP/SRP reservations, unless they want to wait until 9 months to use those points for a Pass reservation.

If you mean that once you make a Pass reservation, your Wyndham points disappear into some black hole, never to return, then again: WRONG. You can always cancel a Pass reservation until the 15-day mark. FROM THE WYNDHAM CLUB PASS SUPPLEMENT (and I quote):

"We realize that sometimes your plans change and you may need to cancel your vacation. Please call the WYNDHAM Club Pass Vacation Planning Center to cancel a reservation.



If your reservation is cancelled 15 days or more prior to the check-in date, the points and housekeeping credits used for the reservation will be returned to your account and reservation and guest confirmation (if applicable) fees will be refunded.
Should you cancel less than 15 days prior to the check- in date, the points and housekeeping credits used for your reservation, reservation, and guest confirmation (if applicable) fees will be forfeited.
Taxes collected at time of reservation will be refunded regardless of your cancellation date."
These policies are completely in line with how current Wyndham use year and cancelled points work.


----------



## lcml11

comicbookman said:


> Now you have strayed from wild speculation off into simple untruth.  Since no points "go" to Wyndham club pass, they do not get trapped.  You statement that owners will loose their right to trade into the existing Wyndham properties (not the affiliates, which can and have come and gone) is ridiculous and sounds suspiciously like what a sales weasel would say.  You do a serious disservice to newer readers of these forums with your absurd statements, self referential, dual personality postings and outright lies.  Also, your inability to do simple math is frightening.  I would suggest you find a liars anonymous forum and hang out there instead.



The on going personal attacks are noted from what appear to be the re-sellors/rentors.  The documents speak for themselves.


----------



## cotraveller

lcml11 said:


> The on going personal attacks are noted from what appear to be the re-sellors/rentors.  The documents speak for themselves.



As a non-reseller and non-renter I must say that I agree that the documents speak for themselves.  And what they say bears no resemblance to the nonsense you have been posting.  Perhaps you should take a remedial reading class and then go over them again.


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> The documents speak for themselves.



Yes, they do. It's just a case of not everyone listening carefully......


----------



## lcml11

It would be nice if the non-stop personal attacks would stop, but I guess that is to much to expect from this board.

It appears the Wyndham Club Pass issue generates a bunch of attention.  Between the two threads that are currently active, the hits are just under 20,000.  I would think it would be in everyone's interest to keep posting information from any source that pertains to this subject.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> It would be nice if the non-stop personal attacks would stop, but I guess that is to much to expect from this board.
> 
> It appears the Wyndham Club Pass issue generates a bunch of attention.  Between the two threads that are currently active, the hits are just under 20,000.  I would think it would be in everyone's interest to keep posting information from any source that pertains to this subject.



There is no personal attack here. Whats being attacked is your message, not the messenger. And the only reason we keep on you is to protect new readers from the mis-information you pass off as fact.

What may seem like an attack is the attempt to figure out why you say what you do.. there are lots of possibilities, some of which make you look pretty bad.  As for me I think you are smarter than you seem,.and like a pool hustler, hiding his true skills,you are waiting to move in for the kill.   Its clear to me that have an agenda, I just havent figured out what it is.

There is a ot less interest than you think,,,sure 12 pages on this thread alone,but half of the posts are your posts and our rebuttals


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> The on going personal attacks are noted from what appear to be the re-sellors/rentors.  The documents speak for themselves.



yes, the documents speak for themselves and of course so do you. Its just that one has nothing to do with the other.  

And yes, I rent, and that also  has nothing to do with what you or the documents say


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> The on going personal attacks are noted from what appear to be the re-sellors/rentors.  The documents speak for themselves.



Since I am not a reseller, and only occasionally rent when I have extra points, you have once again tried to make a point by fabricating facts.  I have never posted anything about my reselling (which I have never done) or renting, so your "appears" comment is clearly a misdirection.  As others have pointed out, the documents do in fact speak for themselves.  So why do you keep pretending to speak for them?  I have no interest in you personally, but I do feel a duty to protect people who know less than I do (as it seems do the people who know more than I do) from blatant misinformation.


----------



## lcml11

Just a update from Wyndham Sales at Indio (remember, recently Wyndham Corporate did not confirm any of the Shell resorts joining up with Wyndham Club Plus/Access or Wyndham Club Pass.

The the name Club Esprit is being bounced around.  It apparently was a predecessor group to WorldMark, the Club.

The are saying that Shell resorts are becoming part of the program.  However, they did not know how many of them.  The joining up date is June.  They also did not know if they were joining Wyndham Club Pass or not.

http://wmowner.wordpress.com/worldmark-the-club/


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Just a update from Wyndham Sales at Indio (remember, recently Wyndham Corporate did not confirm any of the Shell resorts joining up with Wyndham Club Plus/Access or Wyndham Club Pass.
> 
> The the name Club Esprit is being bounced around.  It apparently was a predecessor group to WorldMark, the Club.
> 
> The are saying that Shell resorts are becoming part of the program.  However, they did not know how many of them.  The joining up date is June.  They also did not know if they were joining Wyndham Club Pass or not.



Do I understand your last paragraph correctly?

Sales said Shell resorts are becoming part of the program, but they dont know if they were joining Wyndham Club Pass or not

So they are and they arent.  That sure clears things up for me


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Do I understand your last paragraph correctly?
> 
> Sales said Shell resorts are becoming part of the program, but they dont know if they were joining Wyndham Club Pass or not
> 
> So they are and they arent.  That sure clears things up for me



Me to.  I think we might agree mud is clearer than this.  If Shawnee Mountain sales is to be believed that it will be 8 Affiliate Shell Resorts to Wyndham Club Access.  The phantom 55 plus 8 Community.  

At this point in time, I have seen no document from Wyndham where any resort can just join up with Club Wyndham Pass.  Unless Shell Vacation Club itself joins the Pass program, then it would have to be some resorts coming under Wyndham Club Plus/Access.


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> If Shawnee Mountain sales is to be believed



No sales person is to be believed, unless it's given to you in writing.


----------



## lcml11

http://www.shellhospitality.com/pdf/0436-13SVCBenefitsBook 2013_v7FINAL.PDF

Just found the above link to the Shell Directory.


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> http://www.shellhospitality.com/pdf/0436-13SVCBenefitsBook 2013_v7FINAL.PDF
> 
> Just found the above link to the Shell Directory.



While this is a great link for a Shell thread, It does not mention Wyndham Club Pass at all (not surprising as it is a 2013 benefits guide).  That make sit completely off topic (as are most of your links).


----------



## ogie

I'm a World Mark owner and while browsing our site I noticed this ClubPass. Looks good 55 more resorts. Ok but I checked South Carolina and all of them are all Club Pass( I know we have a Worldmark there, even in Texas only one left as Worldmark). I called them and the guy was really avoiding the discussion regarding the $99 per use. I emailed the site as follows. I'm sorry I cannot read the whole pages. I remembered this before longtime ago one guy from Worldmark called me regarding additional resort obtained by Worldmark he told me in order to use it I need to upgrade my status means more payment etc. I told him I don't even have time to do vacation and he got mad at me and I need to make my own time for vacation and it's not his problem and I need to upgrade my account. I called the corporate office about this. Maybe this another way to charge us more.   



> I was browsing the website for some places to stay this coming June during summer vacation and I noticed this new Club Pass which will only be activated by June. Now let's be honest...is there any Worldmark resort in South Carolina before because as of now of all them are all Club pass means if I'm gonna use 3 resort there I have to pay $99x 3. I noticed that some WorldMark properties are converted to clubpass means we have to pay an exchange fee of $99 every time I intended to use it. I might just sell my credit if things like this will continue. Thank you.


----------



## ogie

Deb from NC said:


> I'm a little confused ...as a lowly Wyndham resale owner,  I did notice that I can no longer see some of the Worldmark resorts (eg-Estes Park, West Yellowstone) that I used to be able to see when I was looking on line for a reservation.  Do I understand correctly that now I could only reserve those at 9 months out and by paying a $ 99 fee ?  (I normally use almost all my points at my home resort OTA anyway, so this won't matter much, but I do want to understand....). Or can I not get anything in Worldmark at all ?
> thanks, Deb



Check my post when I check South Carolina and in Texas there was 2 before now it's only one. Now we have to pay $99 in South Carolina every time, I'm not sure if there with the Wyndham owner. As an owner I think they should consulted us first.


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## comicbookman

My guess would be that they were affiliate resorts (that is what they are called on the Wyndham side).  We (Wyndham owners) now need to pay the $99 fee to use resorts that used to be free as affiliates, so it stands to reason they would do the same thing to worldmark owners.


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## ogie

Still I think some Worldmark was coverted to W Club Pass.


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## comicbookman

My guess would be that they were affiliate resorts (that is what they are called on the Wyndham side).  We (Wyndham owners) now need to pay the $99 fee to use resorts that used to be free as affiliates, so it stands to reason they would do the same thing to worldmark owners.


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## vacationhopeful

ogie said:


> Still I think some Worldmark was coverted to W Club Pass.



And that might have been a prior lawsuit to balance out inventory between the 2 systems -- the inventory was to have gone to CWP or CWA.

PASS is a swapping of inventory via this "exchanging" like for like.


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## ogie

comicbookman said:


> My guess would be that they were affiliate resorts (that is what they are called on the Wyndham side).  We (Wyndham owners) now need to pay the $99 fee to use resorts that used to be free as affiliates, so it stands to reason they would do the same thing to worldmark owners.



I never used Wyndham before. If it was free before, why not free from both sides? Anyway there is nothing we can do about it. The only this is I did not really pay attention how many Worldmark we have in S Carolina etc etc. as of now they are all Club Pass. https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/


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## rickandcindy23

I have been on a few Shell sales pitches, and not one person has said anything about Shell Elite getting any special access to WorldMark or Wyndham systems.  I was told very recently that the systems will remain completely separate by Court at the sales pitch in Anaheim early this month.  I cannot imagine him lying about it.  But he did know we are Platinum with Wyndham, so maybe he thinks we will already access with one system, so why have access through Shell.  

If someone knows something concrete, specifically that WorldMark and Wyndham owners will be stealing Shell inventory, then please post the specific info.  I don't have the patience to read an entire directory.


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## markb53

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have been on a few Shell sales pitches, and not one person has said anything about Shell Elite getting any special access to WorldMark or Wyndham systems.  I was told very recently that the systems will remain completely separate by Court at the sales pitch in Anaheim early this month.  I cannot imagine him lying about it.  But he did know we are Platinum with Wyndham, so maybe he thinks we will already access with one system, so why have access through Shell.
> 
> If someone knows something concrete, specifically that WorldMark and Wyndham owners will be stealing Shell inventory, then please post the specific info.  I don't have the patience to read an entire directory.



The only thing that has been officially announced by Wyndham, as far as I know, is that 8 Shell properties will become Associate resorts for Club Wyndham Plus owners. I assume that this will be similar to the way the WorldMark resorts were Associates before they got pulled to be in Club Wyndham Pass. If it is similar, there will be nearly no availability anyway.


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## ronparise

ogie said:


> I never used Wyndham before. If it was free before, why not free from both sides? Anyway there is nothing we can do about it. The only this is I did not really pay attention how many Worldmark we have in S Carolina etc etc. as of now they are all Club Pass. https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/



There never were any South Carolina resorts owned by  Worldmark the Club. What you saw was the result of an agreement between the two clubs to make a little of the Club Wyndham inventory available to Worldmark and vice versa

That agreement is dead. Replaced by an inter club exchange program called Club Wyndham Pass


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## ogie

ronparise said:


> There never were any South Carolina resorts owned by  Worldmark the Club. What you saw was the result of an agreement between the two clubs to make a little of the Club Wyndham inventory available to Worldmark and vice versa
> 
> That agreement is dead. Replaced by an inter club exchange program called Club Wyndham Pass



As I said I'm not really paying attention whenever I looked on-line. Those must be an agreement before between two clubs. Hard to tell. Will see by June if it is really beneficial to all of us.


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## lcml11

*Wyndham Indio Sales floppy for attandence at update*

The teaser at Indio by sales staff staff was get a USB drive on the updates.  Just generic stuff.  Only a few lines on Club Wyndham Pass that it was coming in June.  No information of value other than it consisted of two files, one for Club Wyndham Plus and one for WorldMark.  The WorldMark one was basically the same thing but at least it did feature a couple of Wyndham Club Plus resorts.
  Panama City Beach and National Harbor were the featured resorts.


For both clubs, it is marked as their quarterly update.


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## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> The teaser at Indio by sales staff staff was get a floppy on the updates.


 
A floppy? As in floppy disc?


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## ronparise

sorry, dup post


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## ronparise

..I think he means floppy as in a little usb flash drive. dont criticise us old farts for not keeping up with the latest jargon.  Even floppys werent floppy when they were used.

 Ive been given these at several resorts in the last couple of years

About as outdated as a floppy though. I used to keep a lot of files on these things, but google drive and dropbox etc makes them obsolete now. 

I guess Sales depends on us not keeping up with technology.. I have never been able to figure out how they sell anything, when tug and ebay are right there on the internet for everyone to see


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## scootr5

ronparise said:


> ..I think he means floppy as in a little usb flash drive. dont criticise us old farts for not keeping up with the latest jargon.  Even floppys werent floppy when they were used.
> 
> Ive been given these at several resorts in the last couple of years
> 
> About as outdated as a floppy though. I used to keep a lot of files on these things, but google drive and dropbox etc makes them obsolete now.
> 
> I guess Sales depends on us not keeping up with technology.. I have never been able to figure out how they sell anything, when tug and ebay are right there on the internet for everyone to see



That makes sense now. Glacier Canyon has tried to "tempt" me with those the last couple of times. I still find them useful for easily moving files between computers in the office though.


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## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> A floppy? As in floppy disc?



Sorry meant USB drive.


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## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> .. Even floppys werent floppy when they were used.



The original 5 1/4" floppies were, in fact, "Floppy". It wasn't until they went to the smaller 3 1/2" format that they were "hardened".


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## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> The original 5 1/4" floppies were, in fact, "Floppy". It wasn't until they went to the smaller 3 1/2" format that they were "hardened".



Is everyone giving away there age around here?


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## comicbookman

Bigrob said:


> The original 5 1/4" floppies were, in fact, "Floppy". It wasn't until they went to the smaller 3 1/2" format that they were "hardened".



Actually, the original floppies were 9".  The 5 1/4" were the first size reduction.  (yes I am that old)


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## lcml11

comicbookman said:


> Actually, the original floppies were 9".  The 5 1/4" were the first size reduction.  (yes I am that old)



You win.  Do not remember those ones.


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## cotraveller

comicbookman said:


> Actually, the original floppies were 9".  The 5 1/4" were the first size reduction.  (yes I am that old)



Make that 8 inch, not 9.  I think I still have a few of those old floppy disks laying around although I have nothing to read them with.

We're completely off topic now, time to start a new club pass thread when any new news (not new rumors) comes out.


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## comicbookman

cotraveller said:


> Make that 8 inch, not 9.  I think I still have a few of those old floppy disks laying around although I have nothing to read them with.
> 
> We're completely off topic now, time to start a new club pass thread when any new news (not new rumors) comes out.



your correct.  I did not proof read my comment. :annoyed:


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## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> The original 5 1/4" floppies were, in fact, "Floppy". It wasn't until they went to the smaller 3 1/2" format that they were "hardened".



I know but I didnt think anyone here was old enough to remember the 5 1/4" format

and completely off topic, and giving away my age...
 my original 5 1/4" was hardened. my current 3 1/2" is floppy


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## vacationhopeful

Oh, you old guys can only talk about "floppy" things and "stift" things?


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## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> I know but I didnt think anyone here was old enough to remember the 5 1/4" format
> 
> and completely off topic, and giving away my age...
> my original 5 1/4" was hardened. my current 3 1/2" is floppy



I'm glad I was alone when I read this because I snorted soda out of my nose I laughed so hard!


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## lcml11

Anyone out there talk to sales recently or have more rumors or speculation on Club Wyndham Pass?


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## Uppie_

ronparise said:


> I know but I didnt think anyone here was old enough to remember the 5 1/4" format
> 
> and completely off topic, and giving away my age...
> my original 5 1/4" was hardened. my current 3 1/2" is floppy



The disk was always floppy the case was not however.


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## vv813

*Wyndham Club PaSS*

I went onto wyndham res. site and clicked on one of the worldmark resorts that I will now have access to (my account is wyndham) and was able to see the point chart that is available for these.  

Ex: Looking at Reunion in florida a wyndham week stay had various point amounts due to the value time that it respresents ranging from 165,000 to high of 285,000 in prime time.  

     The reunion as a worldmark used 279,500 plus the $99 fee.   

      You can also do the shorter stays but I did not compare those.

To find the best cost value you will need to break down the point cost and then do the difference.

So possibly if someone is interested in saving some of the points and low exchange fee vs rci  this may be the better value.  In this situation I think that the rooms at reunion are the same no matter what club you belong to.  But I have heard that some of the other worldmark have a little less decor than the wyndham (blinds etc.) 


None of the shell properties were present.


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## Vacationfuntips

Link for Wyndham Club Pass Directory:

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.c...supplement.pdf

Happy Reading!

Cynthia T.


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## lilpooh108

Vacationfuntips said:


> Link for Wyndham Club Pass Directory:
> 
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.c...supplement.pdf
> 
> Happy Reading!
> 
> Cynthia T.



Wow, this is great thanks!  Is booking Worldmark w/the $99 fee open to us "lowly" resale owners?  I haven't admittedly read through this thread


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## uscav8r

lilpooh108 said:


> Wow, this is great thanks!  Is booking Worldmark w/the $99 fee open to us "lowly" resale owners?  I haven't admittedly read through this thread



No, but I don't think you are missing much. You can always contact those of use who own in both systems if you want to get into a Worldmark resort without an added fee.


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## lilpooh108

uscav8r said:


> No, but I don't think you are missing much. You can always contact those of use who own in both systems if you want to get into a Worldmark resort without an added fee.



Thanks for the response!


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## uscav8r

lilpooh108 said:


> Thanks for the response!



By the, I did not want to give the impression you weren't missing out on WM resorts because of their location or amenities, but simply to say you have options other than Pass!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tamouat

Don't bother wasting your time building up your credits if you're a WorldMark owner.  They only allow you to book using your original credits that you purchased each year.  This is a ridiculous 'policy'.  You have 18000 credits available to you....oh, but you can only use 6000 of those to book a Wyndham Club Pass resort. 
This is a terrible program.


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## Smiles

Can anyone please tell me if pooled points are eligible for Club pass or is it limited to use year points?  Thanks!


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## Ty1on

Smiles said:


> Can anyone please tell me if pooled points are eligible for Club pass or is it limited to use year points?  Thanks!



From the MyClubWyndham Credit Pool page:

Pool Credits are not eligible for the following:
PlusPartners®
Worldwide External Exchange Deposits
Adventures by Wyndham
Cruising with CLUB WYNDHAM Plus
Converting Points to Maintenance Dollars
Wyndham Rewards® Conversion Program

It appears by omission that your (developer bought) Credit Pool points can be used for Club Pass reservations.  I would check with a VC before I booked a non-refundable flight, though.


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## Smiles

Thanks!  That's what I thought too but at Wyndham rep at our time share "update" intimated that they could not be used.  They will say and do anything to make a sale and I never trust them.


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## uscav8r

Smiles said:


> Can anyone please tell me if pooled points are  eligible for Club pass or is it limited to use year points?   Thanks!



I will reiterate that it usually much more cost beneficial for a Club Wyndham owner to rent from a WorldMark owner (such as myself) than to use Club Pass. That caveat aside... until someone gets confirmation of the ability to use pooled credits for Club Pass, here is a tidbit of info from the WorldMark half of the Pass system:

WM credits (what we call points) are usually good for 2 years, so an owner who hasn't traveled can have last year's credits, this year's credits, and can make WM reservations with next year's (borrowed) credits (up to 3 years of credits available).

The policy for WorldMark owners is that only the current year's credits can be used for CP. Now whether this philosophy is carried through to the Club Wyndham credit pool (i.e., only regular use year points can be used and pooled credits cannot) remains to be seen.

Remember that this is a way for Wyndham to entice people to buy more developer credits. Resale points are not eligible for CP bookings; this leads me to believe that pooled credits (which can mingle developer and resale points) are not eligible as well. But this should not matter... which brings me back to the first sentence of my post!


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## ronparise

uscav8r said:


> I will reiterate that it usually much more cost beneficial for a Club Wyndham owner to rent from a WorldMark owner (such as myself) than to use Club Pass.




or a worldmark owner to rent from a Wyndham owner.  Some that own in both systems  will accept Worldmark Credits as payment


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## Smiles

How does a Club Wyndham owner rent from a Worldmark owner?  Do they swap their weeks use points or cash?


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## vacationhopeful

Cash or Trade ....


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## Roadtripguy

Smiles said:


> Can anyone please tell me if pooled points are eligible for Club pass or is it limited to use year points?  Thanks!



No.  Only current use year points may be used.


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