# Formal announcement on the Big Island in Hawaii [Waikoloa Ocean Club]



## bazzap (Sep 7, 2016)

Marriott Vacation Club Goes Big With Its First Location and Sales Gallery on the Big Island in Hawaii

http://www.marriottvacationclub.com...les-Gallery-on-the-Big-Island-in-Hawaii.shtml


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2016)

Does this mean they are converting part of the hotel?

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


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## JIMinNC (Sep 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Does this mean they are converting part of the hotel?
> 
> Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk



Yes. Marriott Vacations Worldwide is purchasing a wing of the Waikoloa Marriott hotel and converting 240 guest rooms into 112 one and two bedroom suites. 

The new development was announced to investors in February 2015 during a VAC earnings conference call. See this thread:

VAC 2/26/15 Earnings Call - Financial and Future Development Info 

The assumption is they are doing a conversion similar to Maui where two hotel rooms are combined to form a 1BR unit and 3 hotel rooms combine to create a 2BR unit. Based on that assumption, in post #31 of that thread is some math that would seem to conclude that the mix will be 96 1BR units and 16 2BR units.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 7, 2016)

_"... Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club is now available for reservations for arrivals beginning May 5, 2017, through the Marriott Vacation Club DestinationsTM Exchange Program as an anticipated exchange option. This affiliation and occupancy is subject to Marriott Vacation Club completing its purchase of Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club, which is anticipated to be completed in the spring 2017. ..."_

That's from the linked article in the OP and there's a similar blurb on the owners.marriottvacationclub.com home page.  The resort is searchable on the website; this is the 2017 DC Points Chart:  Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club.  Has anybody found the II code yet?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 7, 2016)

*Dengue Fever*

We were going to visit the big island this past January 2016 but cancelled due to the outbreak of Dengue Fever.

Does anyone know what the current status is of the outbreak?






.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2016)

How close to the water is the Marriott?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> How close to the water is the Marriott?



Link to the map on marriott.com; click on the "Map" box to switch to satellite view.  Not sure which wing is being converted?


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## JIMinNC (Sep 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> How close to the water is the Marriott?



It's located directly on Anaeho’omalu Bay. There is a lagoon/fishpond between the hotel grounds and the ocean/beach, so the grounds themselves are about 180 yards from the ocean.

Here are some A-Bay pics:


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## GregT (Sep 7, 2016)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> We were going to visit the big island this past January 2016 but cancelled due to the outbreak of Dengue Fever.
> 
> Does anyone know what the current status is of the outbreak?
> 
> .



It began slowing down in April and I believe is fully burned out now -- we were concerned about it, but still went in February 2016 and took lots of bug spray.  We avoided Kailua Kona where the the most infections where, and noted that Waikoloa was fine because it is a desert (and windy).

I'm very happy to see this announcement and curious to see how well done the hotel conversion is.

Best,

Greg


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## rickxylon (Sep 7, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> _"... Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club is now available for reservations for arrivals beginning May 5, 2017, through the Marriott Vacation Club DestinationsTM Exchange Program as an anticipated exchange option. This affiliation and occupancy is subject to Marriott Vacation Club completing its purchase of Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club, which is anticipated to be completed in the spring 2017. ..."_
> 
> That's from the linked article in the OP and there's a similar blurb on the owners.marriottvacationclub.com home page.  The resort is searchable on the website; this is the 2017 DC Points Chart:  Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club.  Has anybody found the II code yet?



MWO  but when I do an exchange search it says no such resort exists. Probably still getting it set up in II's system.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2016)

Very nice - I'd love to trade in there!  Tough without a Marriott trader, but maybe off-season.


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## mjm1 (Sep 7, 2016)

Thanks for sharing this information. We look forward to seeing how the units look. The resort itself is very nice and will make a nice addition to the portfolio.

Mike


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## SueDonJ (Sep 7, 2016)

rickxylon said:


> MWO  but when I do an exchange search it says no such resort exists. Probably still getting it set up in II's system.



The timeshare units aren't yet showing up on marriott.com for cash/MRPoints stays either.  The hotel is currently a CAT 7 property, wonder if that will hold or if the timeshares will be the same CAT 8 as the other HI timeshares.

If the announcements of other new MVW resorts (Miami, DC, etc.) are any indication, we can probably expect all these ancillary things to be up and running within the next few days.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 7, 2016)

Resort directory page is now up on Marriott Vacation Club Owners web site.

Units will feature in-unit washer/dryers and a mini-kitchen that features a refrigerator with ice maker, dishwasher, and microwave.

 Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club 

There is also a link to floorplans on the above-linked page.


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## DeniseM (Sep 7, 2016)

Beautiful and upscale, but small.


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## GregT (Sep 7, 2016)

All,

VOA told me 86 1Brs and 28 2Brs, and I thought she mentioned a 1Br suite but appears not from floor plans. [Edited:  per a later post, we don't think this is the right room count -- we think it is 96 and 16]

In a random mid-June week, points are as follows (numbers have been corrected):

1Br Suite (Garden View): 3,375
1Br Pool View: 3,725
1BR Ocean View: 4,250
2BR Suite (Garden View): 4,825
2BR Pool View: 5,350
2Br Ocean View: 6,025
2Br Ocean Front: 7,125

Points are a little pricey, but not shocking for new property.  Units do not have a stove/oven, just a microwave and 3/4 size refrigerator. 

I look forward to on-site reports.   Points chart is here.

Best,

Greg


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## taffy19 (Sep 7, 2016)

I am taking a complimentary tour today at Ko'olina and am curious if they will mention it today.  I wished they would add some units at the Marriott Hotel in Waikiki too as we prefer staying where the action is. They have very nice ocean views too but no beach front view because they are across the street.

Weather is beautiful!


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## JIMinNC (Sep 7, 2016)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> VOA told me 86 1Brs and 28 2Brs, and I thought she mentioned a 1Br suite but appears not from floor plans.



That adds up to 114 units, but today's news release and the original Feb 2015 announcement both said 112 units. The Feb 2015 release said they were using 240 hotel rooms to create the 112 timeshare units, so if they stuck to the 2 hotel rooms = 1BR and 3 hotel rooms = 2BR, then I believe it would be 96 1BR and 16 2BR. By the looks of the floor plans on the web site, it does look like 2BR= 3 hotel rooms and 1BR=2 hotel rooms, so I'm not sure how they could get 86 ones and 28 twos unless the original numbers from Marriott-corporate are wrong or there are some different floor plans not reflected on the web site.

Not a big deal either way, but thought I would mention the discrepancy.


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## GregT (Sep 7, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> That adds up to 114 units, but today's news release and the original Feb 2015 announcement both said 112 units. The Feb 2015 release said they were using 240 hotel rooms to create the 112 timeshare units, so if they stuck to the 2 hotel rooms = 1BR and 3 hotel rooms = 2BR, then I believe it would be 96 1BR and 16 2BR. By the looks of the floor plans on the web site, it does look like 2BR= 3 hotel rooms and 1BR=2 hotel rooms, so I'm not sure how they could get 86 ones and 28 twos unless the original numbers from Marriott-corporate are wrong or there are some different floor plans not reflected on the web site.
> 
> Not a big deal either way, but thought I would mention the discrepancy.



Good point -- perhaps she had the incorrect numbers, because I did think it was odd that it was different from the math you've shown.

Thanks very much,

Greg


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## Luanne (Sep 7, 2016)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> We were going to visit the big island this past January 2016 but cancelled due to the outbreak of Dengue Fever.
> 
> Does anyone know what the current status is of the outbreak?



We were on the Big Island in May.  Obviously didn't cancel the trip. Didn't see any mosquitoes.  We just made sure to put on bug stuff when we went to Kona (we were staying at Kohala Suites in Waikoloa).

As our dd said, "Heck, I lived in Thailand where dengue is a factor ALL of the time".  

We also went on a cruise in January that had several stops where Zika might be a problem.  Again, just doused with bug stuff.

I couldn't find anything current on dengue on the Big Island.  Maybe that means there haven't been any/many new outbreaks.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Sep 7, 2016)

Remember, those palm trees along the fish pond at A-Bay mostly aren't there any more. The Japanese tsunami took them out. (And dumped a lot of sand in the fish pond.)


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## JIMinNC (Sep 7, 2016)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Remember, those palm trees along the fish pond at A-Bay mostly aren't there any more. The Japanese tsunami took them out. (And dumped a lot of sand in the fish pond.)



The sunset photo in post #8 above was taken in June 2011, a few months after the tsunami, so many of them are still there. Looking at my photos now from 2005 and 2008 and comparing them to 2011, there was definitely some severe erosion in 2011 which was just a few months after the tsunami. Looking at Google Earth now, it appears the sand has since been dredged/replaced and the beach rebuilt. There is a treeless section now evident from the Google Earth view which must be the part that was rebuilt.


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## HudsHut (Sep 7, 2016)

Per a reply to a TripAdvisor post:

Debbie T, Executive Assistant at Waikoloa Beach Marriott Resort & Spa, responded to this review, May 25, 2016
Aloha and thank you for taking the time to share your experience. All feedback is an important element of our business and we value your opinion. 

The South Tower of our hotel was sold and has begun the process of converting into Marriott Vacation Club Timeshare units. The work is currently being done inside the building and guests staying at our hotel should experience minimal to no impact from this construction. Unfortunately it also required the closure of our laundry facilities and we apologize for the inconvenience. 
Our new owners also have room renovations planned for the North Tower later this year, but the exact timeline has not been finalized. Our Concierge Desk is handled by Expedia, they do a great job and we will share your comments with them. The Island of Hawaii has so many things to offer and a wide array of cultural activities and places to visit. It sure sounds like you experienced a few of them during your time on the island and they are all fantastic. We do share the positive and negative comments with our staff to improve customer service, so we thank you for the review. Again, please accept our apologies for the challenges you experienced during your stay and we hope you will visit the Big Island of Hawaii again in the future.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...oa_Kohala_Coast_Island_of_Hawaii_Hawaii.html#


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## californiagirl (Sep 8, 2016)

We may go back since the timeshare rooms will be in the South building.  We stayed there in an "ocean view" room in the North building in 2008.  The only way you had a very small glimpse of the ocean was if you walked out onto the balcony, leaned over the rail and craned your neck to the right.  We paid extra for the "upgrade".  We complained to the manager but clearly she heard it daily because she had a deaf ear and was quite rude.  The building we were in was part of a U shape with the other two buildings.  So we looked directly into another room, not even a view of gardens.  The room was small too, but with a one bedroom you would have more space.  The grounds were beautiful.  The lobby was old and worn and in need of an update, but that was 8 years ago and hopefully that has since occurred.  

The big island has so much to offer.  Best snorkeling we've ever done was at Captain Cook monument.  Stargazing on Mona Kea, amazing.  The volcano etc.  

I'll be really interested in the reviews of other travelers before we go back.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 8, 2016)

Based on the points chart, it does not appear that there will be lockoffs at this resort.  There is nothing smaller than a 1BR unit available with points.


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## RJW (Sep 8, 2016)

*Room Decor Not Impressive*

Looking at the limited number of villa photos ( probably conceptual images), I was underwhelmed by the color palate shown.  The gray walls give a dorm room appearance.  Not very Hawaiian looking.  Also, I agree that they also look small.
On a positive note, I was glad that MVC finally opened on the Big Island.
Always like the combo of the hotel/timeshare.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 8, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> Based on the points chart, it does not appear that there will be lockoffs at this resort.  There is nothing smaller than a 1BR unit available with points.



My thinking is that there may be no new lock-offs built in the MVC system. What would be the benefit in the Points world? In the old Weeks world, building lock-offs made sense as a way to sell larger units by selling the benefits of locking off one week into two. The Weeks owners bought the weeks and made the decision to lock-off or not.

Now, with everything new being Trust owned, if Marriott wanted studios at a resort, they would just build some that way. I guess building new lock-offs would, in theory, give Marriott some additional inventory flexibility by allowing them to dynamically alter the mix of 1BR, 2BR, studio units at a resort. But would the extra costs of having multiple entrances, secure doors between the sections of the lock-off, and extra kitchen facilities be warranted given the only benefit is added inventory management flexibility? In the past, it was a clear selling point  - "Buy one week; get two" - so the additional cost made sense. Not so much now.


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## GaryDouglas (Sep 8, 2016)

If you look at the room floor plans you see the angled rooms and the rectangular layout ones.  The latter would technically be ocean front.  We've had that location before and that building is set back a bit from the beach.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 9, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> My thinking is that there may be no new lock-offs built in the MVC system. What would be the benefit in the Points world? In the old Weeks world, building lock-offs made sense as a way to sell larger units by selling the benefits of locking off one week into two. The Weeks owners bought the weeks and made the decision to lock-off or not.
> 
> Now, with everything new being Trust owned, if Marriott wanted studios at a resort, they would just build some that way. I guess building new lock-offs would, in theory, give Marriott some additional inventory flexibility by allowing them to dynamically alter the mix of 1BR, 2BR, studio units at a resort. But would the extra costs of having multiple entrances, secure doors between the sections of the lock-off, and extra kitchen facilities be warranted given the only benefit is added inventory management flexibility? In the past, it was a clear selling point  - "Buy one week; get two" - so the additional cost made sense. Not so much now.



This is an excellent point, and one I had not focused on before.


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## cp73 (Sep 9, 2016)

JIMinNC said:


> My thinking is that there may be no new lock-offs built in the MVC system. What would be the benefit in the Points world?



A benefit I can see is that it requires less points to stay in. This is a selling point when attracting new buyers into the points program. They can buy less and still be part of the program and get into new resorts with less points. I think part of their reasoning of selling points to begin with was they can sell in smaller increments and not require a new owner to invest $40k to get a weeks stay.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 9, 2016)

cp73 said:


> A benefit I can see is that it requires less points to stay in. This is a selling point when attracting new buyers into the points program. They can buy less and still be part of the program and get into new resorts with less points. I think part of their reasoning of selling points to begin with was they can sell in smaller increments and not require a new owner to invest $40k to get a weeks stay.



In that case, I think they would just build studio units at a new resort. No need to build a lock-off 2BR if there is no owner to lock-off and deposit. Just build the smaller units if they feel there is demand. 

But with reports in another thread that Marriott has increased point requirements for 1BR units and reduced them for studio units (at least at one resort), that would seem to indicate that the demand for studios is much less than 1BR and larger at traditional resorts (not counting the urban Pulse locations).


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## slum808 (Sep 9, 2016)

DVC has been a point based system from day one and continues to build a mix of dedicated units and lockoffs. I believe the schedule flexibility outweighs the added cost of construction. The key is finding the right use mix.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 9, 2016)

slum808 said:


> DVC has been a point based system from day one and continues to build a mix of dedicated units and lockoffs. I believe the schedule flexibility outweighs the added cost of construction. The key is finding the right use mix.



Is DVC set up like Marriott where DVC controls basically all of the inventory - as Marriott does with the Real Estate Trust - or is it more like HGVC where owners actually own weeks at individual resorts that have assigned point values and make their own decisions to lock-off or not lock-off?


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## slum808 (Sep 9, 2016)

Each DVC resort stands alone, but you only own the use of your points


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## JIMinNC (Sep 9, 2016)

slum808 said:


> Each DVC resort stands alone, but you only own the use of your points



So does a DVC owner own, for example, rights to the points from a 2BR lock-off unit at their resort, and can that owner then make a decision to lock-off that unit for their reserved week and take two trips with the points from the two parts of the lock-off? Or is the decision to lock-off made by DVC? In other words, in the DVC system, who decides whether a lock-off unit is split into two or kept intact? Does the owner make that call or does DVC?


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## slum808 (Sep 10, 2016)

From a behind the scene deed standpoint points are tied to a deeded unit that DVC controls. They then sell points in any amount to owners who can reserve what ever type of unit for however many days they want. Individual owners don't decide to lock off or not, but rather book the type of room they want. If 50 2bed lock offs are available, the reservations them selves will determine the usage. For most DVC resorts you may select anything from a 3 bedroom to a studio, including your choice of 2 bed dedicated or 2 bed lock off. Of course the system is programmed with the correct number of units in appropriate size.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

slum808 said:


> From a behind the scene deed standpoint points are tied to a deeded unit that DVC controls. They then sell points in any amount to owners who can reserve what ever type of unit for however many days they want. Individual owners don't decide to lock off or not, but rather book the type of room they want. If 50 2bed lock offs are available, the reservations them selves will determine the usage. For most DVC resorts you may select anything from a 3 bedroom to a studio, including your choice of 2 bed dedicated or 2 bed lock off. Of course the system is programmed with the correct number of units in appropriate size.



So in the DVC system, if an owner wanted a 2BR, why would they choose to book a 2BR lock-off versus a 2BR dedicated unit? If they are just booking a 2BR, what is their advantage to booking lock-off vs. non lock-off?


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## slum808 (Sep 10, 2016)

Two bedroom dedicated has two Queens in the 2nd bedroom. Lock offs have a queen or king and pull out. Sometimes, like Aulani, the dedicated will have an extra half bath.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

slum808 said:


> Two bedroom dedicated has two Queens in the 2nd bedroom. Lock offs have a queen or king and pull out. Sometimes, like Aulani, the dedicated will have an extra half bath.



So just to clarify, when a DVC owner books a 2BR lock-off, they are totally committed to using it only as a unified 2BR unit? They can't opt to use one part and trade/deposit the other part, or something like that?


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## slum808 (Sep 10, 2016)

Once you reserve a unit it's for use by you, guest, or renter. You can only deposit points into RCI not a reservation.


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## slum808 (Sep 10, 2016)

I have seen questions on forums asking if the resorts can key the two half's separately so you could rent out half of it, but I've never seen clear guidance.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 10, 2016)

slum808 said:


> Once you reserve a unit it's for use by you, guest, or renter. You can only deposit points into RCI not a reservation.



Thanks for the explanations. It does sound like DVC sees enough value in being able to change/control the studio/1BR/2BR/3BR mix of enough value to go to the expense of building lock-off units that they control how they are booked/configured, even though their points owners don't have that control.

One difference with Marriott is nowhere in their current points charts - even at resorts that have a mix of lock-off and non lock-off units - do they distinguish between 2BR lock-offs and 2BR dedicated units as you say DVC does. In the Marriott points system, a 2BR is a 2BR, and I'm not aware of any way someone booking with points can specify/book either a lock-off or a dedicated unit. They just book a 2BR for X number of points and Marriott could assign them either a lock-off or a dedicated unit.

There are some Marriott resorts that were built with only 2BR or 3BR units, with some or all of those being lock-offs (the Lahaina and Napili Villas on Maui are the ones that come immediately to mind). At these resorts, the points reservation system still allows you to book either a studio, 1BR, 2BR, or 3BR. So that means someone - I assume Marriott - is making the decision to lock-off some of those 2BR and 3BR units into two pieces once they are in the Trust or deposited into the DC Exchange company by a weeks owner. But those resorts were designed and sold as weeks prior to the advent of the points system, so Marriott clearly had a reason back then to build and market lock-offs for reasons beyond just inventory management. What we don't know is whether Marriott sees enough value in building NEW lock-off units given that it is no longer a selling point to potential owners or a distinguishing factor in the points world. At least at the new Big Island resort, they seem to be opting that lock-offs aren't needed.


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