# MVCI points purchase via the secondary market



## sandcfort (Jan 5, 2018)

Hello,  
I am currently an "owner" level of MVCI and looking at purchasing points to move to the next level "select".   How does the secondary market work?  If I purchase on the secondary market will the points be added to my existing point total to achieve the next level and receive the perks of that level (13 month reservation window).   Will the points anniversary date convert to my anniversary date or remain with the original purchasers anniversary date?   Will the MVCI website/customer service recognize the additional points under my account?  

Thanks


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## gblotter (Jan 5, 2018)

While attending a sales presentation this week, I was told that points purchased on the secondary market do not apply to status level. This was a salesman speaking, so of course you should check such facts independently.


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## arizzuto (Jan 5, 2018)

Generally all developers only recognize points bought directly from sales personnel in their organization. I am a owner in club Wyndham and bought points through TUG. Those points are usable within Wyndham but do not count toward status.


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## Fasttr (Jan 5, 2018)

There have been several TUGgers who have purchased MVC DC points via the secondary market and all of them have reported that the resale purchased points DO INDEED  count toward ownership status, as long as you pay MVC the junk fees (see Points FAQ sticky for details, but they basically equate to $2 a point) to open the points up for full access in the system. 

As for your Use Year question, it is my understanding the Use Year of the resale purchased points would remain as they were based on prior owners Use Year.


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## GregT (Jan 5, 2018)

I believe Steven Ting just purchased points resale to achieve the next level of status.  You want to PM him to confirm no surprises.  

Good luck!

Best,

Greg


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## JIMinNC (Jan 5, 2018)

I would question whether it is worth it to buy points just to move up from "Owner" to "Select". The only significant difference that I am aware of between "Owner" and "Select" is that Select level can make 7-night reservations 13-months out without paying the 20% point premium. So you can already make a reservation 13-months out now as an "Owner", you just have to use 20% more points. When I've looked at the numbers, it makes more financial sense just to rent enough points to cover the 20% upcharge and save the upfront cost of more points. Let's say you have a reservation that normally requires 3500 points, but as an "Owner" it would cost you 4200 points to book prior to 12-months out. Those extra 700 points could be rented for $0.55 to $.60 per point, so the cost to cover the premium would be $385 to $420 each time you had to do that. And you would have to pay about the same amount in maintenance fees on your added resale points, so it really makes more sense just to rent the points you need to cover the 20% premium instead of forking out thousands of dollars for resale points.

Unlike when you move up to Executive level and get some real, improved booking rights such as shorter stays, luxury properties, etc, moving up to Select has very little tangible benefit.


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## StevenTing (Jan 5, 2018)

My points have closed but they haven’t shown up in my account yet.  It might be another couple weeks before I can provide confirmation.


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## rthib (Jan 6, 2018)

If you already have enrolled weeks (but no points otherwise) which of the "junk" fees do you have to pay? 
I am 6000+ with weeks, and have some spare $ so was thinking of maybe buy 1000 to get to Executive.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 6, 2018)

rthib said:


> If you already have enrolled weeks (but no points otherwise) which of the "junk" fees do you have to pay?
> I am 6000+ with weeks, and have some spare $ so was thinking of maybe buy 1000 to get to Executive.



You will have to pay the $2 per point fees to fully activate any resale points. So, whatever resale price you can get that will pass ROFR plus $2 per point. That will probably mean 1000 Points would cost $6000 to $7000 plus closing costs. In my opinion, the benefits of Executive would be well worth such a small upgrade cost.


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## rthib (Jan 6, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> You will have to pay the $2 per point fees to fully activate any resale points. So, whatever resale price you can get that will pass ROFR plus $2 per point. That will probably mean 1000 Points would cost $6000 to $7000 plus closing costs. In my opinion, the benefits of Executive would be well worth such a small upgrade cost.


Other question is where best source to find resale points?


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## JIMinNC (Jan 6, 2018)

rthib said:


> Other question is where best source to find resale points?



I've yet to buy resale points myself, but most every broker that sells resale weeks also sells resale points. Here are just a few:

https://advantagevacation.com
http://judikoz.com/
http://www.sellingtimeshares.net
https://www.timesharebrokersales.com
https://magicalrealty.com
https://www.redweek.com


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## taterhed (Jan 6, 2018)

I would definitely PM @StevenTing to discuss it if you're really interested.  I think he may have a few 'tips' to assist you.


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## GregT (Jan 7, 2018)

rthib said:


> If you already have enrolled weeks (but no points otherwise) which of the "junk" fees do you have to pay?
> I am 6000+ with weeks, and have some spare $ so was thinking of maybe buy 1000 to get to Executive.



Jim is correct about the $2/point junk fee, however there is a minimum fee of $3,000 so factor that into the number of points you buy - 1,500 may be the right level depending on price.    Good luck!

Best,

Greg


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## JIMinNC (Jan 7, 2018)

GregT said:


> Jim is correct about the $2/point junk fee, however there is a minimum fee of $3,000 so factor that into the number of points you buy - 1,500 may be the right level depending on price.    Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, thanks for bringing up the $3000 minimum. I always seem to forget to factor that in for some reason. I guess it’s because any points buy we would ever decide to do would have to be well over the minimum to be useful, so whenever I’m running our numbers, the minimum is irrelevant. Then when a question about a sub-1500 point purchase comes up, I forget to factor in the $3000 minimum. 

Based on that, my $6000 to $7000 cost I quoted above for a 1000 point purchase is probably low. Probably would cost $7000 to $8000 unless the OP was able to slip something by ROFR at a very low price like you and Steven were able to do. IMHO that’s still an attractive cost for moving up to Executive. Wish we could do it that cheaply...


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## taxare (Jan 7, 2018)

sandcfort said:


> Hello,
> I am currently an "owner" level of MVCI and looking at purchasing points to move to the next level "select".   How does the secondary market work?  If I purchase on the secondary market will the points be added to my existing point total to achieve the next level and receive the perks of that level (13 month reservation window).   Will the points anniversary date convert to my anniversary date or remain with the original purchasers anniversary date?   Will the MVCI website/customer service recognize the additional points under my account?
> 
> Thanks


Its been a couple of years for me, so Steven would have the most current information. My secondary point purchase has been treated in all aspects as being purchased directly from Marriott. I obtained the higher status and they show up in my account like the others. As indicated above, they retained their original use year, so it makes for a little more work. I did pay the junk fees but not the "education fee". I used David Cortese at Magical Realty and he was professional, informative, and got the job done.


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## VacationForever (Jan 7, 2018)

taxare said:


> Its been a couple of years for me, so Steven would have the most current information. My secondary point purchase has been treated in all aspects as being purchased directly from Marriott. I obtained the higher status and they show up in my account like the others. As indicated above, they retained their original use year, so it makes for a little more work. I did pay the junk fees but not the "education fee". I used David Cortese at Magical Realty and he was professional, informative, and got the job done.


Was the "Education Fee" waived because you already owned DC points or did you only have enrolled weeks and that counted too?


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## GregT (Jan 7, 2018)

My "Education Fee" was not waived even though I was already enrolled.

Best,

Greg


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## taxare (Jan 8, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Was the "Education Fee" waived because you already owned DC points or did you only have enrolled weeks and that counted too?


I had already owned DC points.


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> There have been several TUGgers who have purchased MVC DC points via the secondary market and all of them have reported that the resale purchased points DO INDEED  count toward ownership status, as long as you pay MVC the junk fees (see Points FAQ sticky for details, but they basically equate to $2 a point) to open the points up for full access in the system.
> 
> As for your Use Year question, it is my understanding the Use Year of the resale purchased points would remain as they were based on prior owners Use Year.



Our resale points counted toward our ownership level. Use year remains the use year of the previous owner. This is something to check on when considering buying a particular batch of points. I would ask the seller/broker, "What is the use year of the points", to ensure you are getting the window/anniversary dates you want.


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

taxare said:


> Its been a couple of years for me, so Steven would have the most current information. My secondary point purchase has been treated in all aspects as being purchased directly from Marriott. I obtained the higher status and they show up in my account like the others. As indicated above, they retained their original use year, so it makes for a little more work. I did pay the junk fees but not the "education fee". I used David Cortese at Magical Realty and he was professional, informative, and got the job done.



Agreed. We worked with David Cortese at Magical Realty as well. Highly recommend.


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Was the "Education Fee" waived because you already owned DC points or did you only have enrolled weeks and that counted too?


The education fee is only waived if you already own 'pure points' (meaning not an enrolled week, but points you actually purchased).


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

rthib said:


> If you already have enrolled weeks (but no points otherwise) which of the "junk" fees do you have to pay?
> I am 6000+ with weeks, and have some spare $ so was thinking of maybe buy 1000 to get to Executive.



If you buy from Marriott direct, you will pay full retail price for 1,000 points. If you buy resale points, you will have to pay all of the junk fees if this is your first purchase of pure points.


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

GregT said:


> Jim is correct about the $2/point junk fee, however there is a minimum fee of $3,000 so factor that into the number of points you buy - 1,500 may be the right level depending on price.    Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Agreed. 1,500 points is the minimum to 'break even' on the $3,000 minimum junk fee.


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## kds4 (Jan 8, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> Greg, thanks for bringing up the $3000 minimum. I always seem to forget to factor that in for some reason. I guess it’s because any points buy we would ever decide to do would have to be well over the minimum to be useful, so whenever I’m running our numbers, the minimum is irrelevant. Then when a question about a sub-1500 point purchase comes up, I forget to factor in the $3000 minimum.
> 
> Based on that, my $6000 to $7000 cost I quoted above for a 1000 point purchase is probably low. Probably would cost $7000 to $8000 unless the OP was able to slip something by ROFR at a very low price like you and Steven were able to do. IMHO that’s still an attractive cost for moving up to Executive. Wish we could do it that cheaply...



To buy just 1,000 points resale, I would say $8k 'all-in' is a reasonable estimate.


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## Shelley (Jan 11, 2018)

MVC points bought directly from an owner, secondary market, ie. resale, will count toward the next level - they are identical to the points bought from Marriott. $8k 'all in' is on the high side for 1000 MVC points.


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## kds4 (Jan 13, 2018)

Shelley said:


> MVC points bought directly from an owner, secondary market, ie. resale, will count toward the next level - they are identical to the points bought from Marriott. $8k 'all in' is on the high side for 1000 MVC points.



Perhaps things have changed, but from my prior purchases the $8k estimate was based on:

$4 per point (to pass ROFR) - $4x1000 = $4,000
Minimum base junk fee is $500 per 250 points purchased (but there is a minimum fee of $3,000, so to buy 1,000 points the minimum fee applies) = $3,000
There are a couple of other 'minor' junk fees like the 'education' fee (if it's the buyer's first points purchase), as well as the closing costs charged to complete the purchase of approximately $1,000

If someone can buy points below $4 per point and clear ROFR, they could eek that $8k down a little bit.


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## StevenTing (Jan 14, 2018)

I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.  

My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point.  Originally my offer was $3.00 per point.  The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer.  They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.  

Seller still decided to go with me so I upped the offer an additional $300 as “goodwill” to the seller for going with me.  This final amount passed ROFR and saved me from having to look for another contract.  

I think a reasonable all in cost would be between $6500-$7500, including closing costs and all fees. I did not opt in for title insurance.  That would have been an additional $200. 

I’ll keep you updat d once my points finally post. I’m excited to start booking 2019.


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## kds4 (Jan 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.
> 
> My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point.  Originally my offer was $3.00 per point.  The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer.  They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.
> 
> ...



Congratulations. That means resale point prices have dipped further since our last resale points purchase. Interesting that your broker volleyed between you and Marriott before locking in a sales price with you. This is the first instance I have seen that approach reported here.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.
> 
> My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point.  Originally my offer was $3.00 per point.  The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer.  They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.
> 
> ...



The way you describe this transaction, it sounds like this may have been a direct purchase from a seller rather than a transaction through a broker who might play games with folding upfront fees or closing costs into the price submitted to ROFR. Is that true? If so, then the $3.30 would appear to be an all-in, "real" price that passed ROFR rather than one of the ones where Marriott saw a different price than what the buyer is actually paying out. Or was this through a broker that may have been putting together a creative transaction structure in order to pass?

Also, I think you said your purchase was for 1000 points, so I'm wondering if MVC is more likely to pass at a lower price on these smaller lots, since the cost to close the transaction is the same as a larger batch?


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## StevenTing (Jan 16, 2018)

kds4 said:


> Congratulations. That means resale point prices have dipped further since our last resale points purchase. Interesting that your broker volleyed between you and Marriott before locking in a sales price with you. This is the first instance I have seen that approach reported here.



The broker did not volley between Marriott.  It was the actual Seller.  Originally the broker said she had a seller and that she would get me a contract.  However after 2 days the contract did not come.  I asked her where it was and she said the Seller contacted Marriott and received a price where net proceeds were higher.  I asked what the Marriott offer was and it was the same price as what I offered.  A few days later, she told me the Seller wanted to move forward with me.  Maybe the seller wanted to spite Marriott since they were taking a loss on the sale.  We will never know.



JIMinNC said:


> The way you describe this transaction, it sounds like this may have been a direct purchase from a seller rather than a transaction through a broker who might play games with folding upfront fees or closing costs into the price submitted to ROFR. Is that true? If so, then the $3.30 would appear to be an all-in, "real" price that passed ROFR rather than one of the ones where Marriott saw a different price than what the buyer is actually paying out. Or was this through a broker that may have been putting together a creative transaction structure in order to pass?
> 
> Also, I think you said your purchase was for 1000 points, so I'm wondering if MVC is more likely to pass at a lower price on these smaller lots, since the cost to close the transaction is the same as a larger batch?


The transaction was through a broker.  We folded the fees all-in and the contracted purchase price was $6800 with the Seller paying all transfer fees and closing costs.  The way I had the contract worded, if Marriott exercised their right, they would have to pay the purchase price of $6800.  Not $6800 less transfer fees.

I went through this process 2 other times where Marriott exercised.  However the way I had the contact worded, on instance they would have to pay the full purchase price.  The other instance, they would only have to pay the net price.  I still need to follow up with the broker when Marriott Exercised even though they would have to pay the full purchase price to see if the Seller actually received the full purchase price.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> The broker did not volley between Marriott.  It was the actual Seller.  Originally the broker said she had a seller and that she would get me a contract.  However after 2 days the contract did not come.  I asked her where it was and she said the Seller contacted Marriott and received a price where net proceeds were higher.  I asked what the Marriott offer was and it was the same price as what I offered.  A few days later, she told me the Seller wanted to move forward with me.  Maybe the seller wanted to spite Marriott since they were taking a loss on the sale.  We will never know.
> 
> 
> The transaction was through a broker.  We folded the fees all-in and the contracted purchase price was $6800 with the Seller paying all transfer fees and closing costs.  The way I had the contract worded, if Marriott exercised their right, they would have to pay the purchase price of $6800.  Not $6800 less transfer fees.
> ...



So then, the question becomes, how should this be construed as to the ROFR price for Marriott? It sounds like, Marriott was passing on ROFR on a contract that would have cost them $6.80 per point, not $3.30/pp. For you, they were essentially passing on a net $3.30/pp cost the way most contracts are worded, but the real question is should this be considered at ROFR pass at $3.30/pp or $6.80/pp?


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## StevenTing (Jan 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> So then, the question becomes, how should this be construed as to the ROFR price for Marriott? It sounds like, Marriott was passing on ROFR on a contract that would have cost them $6.80 per point, not $3.30/pp. For you, they were essentially passing on a net $3.30/pp cost the way most contracts are worded, but the real question is should this be considered at ROFR pass at $3.30/pp or $6.80/pp?



I think this is a matter of personal opinion.  We all know that the Marriott fees are baked in.  We know that everyone has to pay them in a resale.  But when using a contract, the words DO matter and the title company follows the rules on the contract exactly with out deviation.

In the future, all of my contracts will define the purchase price and there will be a stipulation that the seller will pay any and all fees and closing costs associated with the transaction, if applicable.  In the instance that Marriott exercises, there is no transfer fee, so in theory, the seller would get to keep those proceeds that would normally need to be paid.  That was the legal framework that I was operating on.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I think this is a matter of personal opinion.  We all know that the Marriott fees are baked in.  We know that everyone has to pay them in a resale.  But when using a contract, the words DO matter and the title company follows the rules on the contract exactly with out deviation.
> 
> In the future, all of my contracts will define the purchase price and there will be a stipulation that the seller will pay any and all fees and closing costs associated with the transaction, if applicable.  In the instance that Marriott exercises, there is no transfer fee, so in theory, the seller would get to keep those proceeds that would normally need to be paid.  That was the legal framework that I was operating on.



In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".

So from *your *perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the more typical model. But from *Marriott's* perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.

Any other thoughts from anyone else?


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## Fasttr (Jan 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".
> 
> So from *your *perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the moe typical model. But from *Marriott's* perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.
> 
> Any other thoughts from anyone else?


I agree with you...should be based on what MVC was making the decision on....and they passed on paying $6.80


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## SueDonJ (Jan 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".
> 
> So from *your *perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the moe typical model. But from *Marriott's* perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.
> 
> Any other thoughts from anyone else?



I have never understood why this is a question.  The ROFR price reported to ROFR.net (or anywhere else) should be the price on which Marriott bases its decision.  Whether closing or other real costs are built in or whether a price is picked out of thin air in order to fraudulently circumvent ROFR rules, if Marriott isn't working with the actual price paid by the buyer then including the lower amount on a report is useless for the purpose of trying to gauge ROFR thresholds.


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## VacationForever (Jan 16, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> I have never understood why this is a question.  The ROFR price reported to ROFR.net (or anywhere else) should be the price on which Marriott bases its decision.  Whether closing or other real costs are built in or whether a price is picked out of thin air in order to fraudulently circumvent ROFR rules, if Marriott isn't working with the actual price paid by the buyer then including the lower amount on a report is useless for the purpose of trying to gauge ROFR thresholds.


... so the long and short of this, the ROFR for this particular transaction should be based on $6.80.   I agree with JIMinNC that not all ROFR numbers are comparable in the database because of how the purchases can be packaged.


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## StevenTing (Jan 17, 2018)

sandcfort said:


> Hello,
> I am currently an "owner" level of MVCI and looking at purchasing points to move to the next level "select".   How does the secondary market work?  If I purchase on the secondary market will the points be added to my existing point total to achieve the next level and receive the perks of that level (13 month reservation window).   Will the points anniversary date convert to my anniversary date or remain with the original purchasers anniversary date?   Will the MVCI website/customer service recognize the additional points under my account?
> 
> Thanks





gblotter said:


> While attending a sales presentation this week, I was told that points purchased on the secondary market do not apply to status level. This was a salesman speaking, so of course you should check such facts independently.



Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.  

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.


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## Shelley (Jan 17, 2018)

When you report others...say a HGVC ROFR price to ROFR.net, is the amount reported as the purchase price plus all the mandatory fees, ie. transfer fee, activation fee, estoppel fee, Club fee, etc?


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## VacationForever (Jan 17, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.


Congratulations!


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## GregT (Jan 17, 2018)

Great news Steven!  Congratulations!!!


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## hangloose (Jan 17, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.



MVCI Presidential is a great status level to have. It also gets you Marriott Platinum Elite status, if you aren’t already.

I wonder, how quickly will Marriott reflect the Platinum status update?  Does it happen automatically?  And will a linked SPG account also automatically update?

When MVCI DC status changes mid year, I assume you just pay any difference the following year when DC dues payment is due (ie. moving from Select to Presidential increases dues)?


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## bazzap (Jan 18, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.


Making sure that the points you purchased matched your existing anniversary was a very smart move.
I would take a bet that every purchaser might wish they had done the same on reflection.
A great result.


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## TXTortoise (Jan 18, 2018)

I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment,  but worth a search.


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## bazzap (Jan 18, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment,  but worth a search.


Very interesting. I can’t readily think why so I will certainly search for it.


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## Fasttr (Jan 18, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment,  but worth a search.





bazzap said:


> Very interesting. I can’t readily think why so I will certainly search for it.


I believe his comments were related to reservations closer to the end of your Use Year.  If you are booking a November stay and only have calendar Use Year points, and later have to cancel after the banking deadline has passed, you are very limited in the length of time to use those refunded points.  If however in addition to the calendar use year, you also have points that run July-June and had instead, wisely used those points for the November booking, even after cancelling that Nov booking, you still have a lot of time to either use the refunded points OR you still have time to bank them forward (as long as you had cancelled outside of 60 days from check in).  I think GregT was commenting that if you have differing Use Year points, you can decide which points to use for different reservations at different times in the year, in order to maximize your usage, should you later have to cancel a ressie.

This same strategy can be used when determining which Use Year points to rent, assuming there are folks renting Trust points with non calendar Use Years at the time you are renting the points.  You don't get the benefit of banking those forward, but it would be nicer to book a ressie earlier in any given Use Year of rented points than later in any given Use Year for flexibility reasons.


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## GregT (Jan 18, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> I believe his comments were related to reservations closer to the end of your Use Year.  If you are booking a November stay and only have calendar Use Year points, and later have to cancel after the banking deadline has passed, you are very limited in the length of time to use those refunded points.  If however in addition to the calendar use year, you also have points that run July-June and had instead, wisely used those points for the November booking, even after cancelling that Nov booking, you still have a lot of time to either use the refunded points OR you still have time to bank them forward (as long as you had cancelled outside of 60 days from check in).  I think GregT was commenting that if you have differing Use Year points, you can decide which points to use for different reservations at different times in the year, in order to maximize your usage, should you later have to cancel a ressie.
> 
> This same strategy can be used when determining which Use Year points to rent, assuming there are folks renting Trust points with non calendar Use Years at the time you are renting the points.  You don't get the benefit of banking those forward, but it would be nicer to book a ressie earlier in any given Use Year of rented points than later in any given Use Year for flexibility reasons.



Good work Fasttr.


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## frank808 (Jan 18, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.


How do you ensure the points you are buying match your enrolled weeks points?  Are there many different trust point months?  Just curious as i am a legacy owner with no points.  I did not know mvc has points with different use months like Disney vacation club points.


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## Fasttr (Jan 19, 2018)

frank808 said:


> How do you ensure the points you are buying match your enrolled weeks points?  Are there many different trust point months?  Just curious as i am a legacy owner with no points.  I did not know mvc has points with different use months like Disney vacation club points.


If you purchase Trust points and are not a Legacy owner with enrolled weeks, your Use Year for your points will generally start on the first of the month to occur after 30 days from date of purchase.  So as an example, you sign for your purchase on August 20th, generally speaking, your Use Year would run from October 1 - Sept 30 annually.  That gives them time to close the deal, get you loaded into the system and feed you your first set of points.

If you are a Legacy owner with enrolled points and purchase Trust points, they will generally align your Trust points Use Year on a calendar year to align with your Legacy points....which are always on a calendar year.

When buying resale points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is, so that you can take that into consideration.

Also when renting points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is to make sure that it will work for the reservation you have in mind.


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## StevenTing (Jan 19, 2018)

I just found out that my Marriott account has been upgraded to Platinum Elite.  However, I didn't find out from Marriott.  I found out from SPG through an email that said "You're Platinum with SPG."  That prompted me to login to Marriott and there it was.  So it looks like 2 days from when Marriott recorded and transferred the points to my account to when it was also reflected on Marriott.com for status.


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## frank808 (Jan 19, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> If you purchase Trust points and are not a Legacy owner with enrolled weeks, your Use Year for your points will generally start on the first of the month to occur after 30 days from date of purchase.  So as an example, you sign for your purchase on August 20th, generally speaking, your Use Year would run from October 1 - Sept 30 annually.  That gives them time to close the deal, get you loaded into the system and feed you your first set of points.
> 
> If you are a Legacy owner with enrolled points and purchase Trust points, they will generally align your Trust points Use Year on a calendar year to align with your Legacy points....which are always on a calendar year.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation!  I thought all mvc points were calendar year starting january.


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> The way you describe this transaction, it sounds like this may have been a direct purchase from a seller rather than a transaction through a broker who might play games with folding upfront fees or closing costs into the price submitted to ROFR. Is that true? If so, then the $3.30 would appear to be an all-in, "real" price that passed ROFR rather than one of the ones where Marriott saw a different price than what the buyer is actually paying out. Or was this through a broker that may have been putting together a creative transaction structure in order to pass?
> 
> Also, I think you said your purchase was for 1000 points, so I'm wondering if MVC is more likely to pass at a lower price on these smaller lots, since the cost to close the transaction is the same as a larger batch?



Interesting point about Marriott possibly passing on smaller points purchases based on the closing costs. On the other side of that coin, Marriott is also getting a larger proportion of 'junk' fee income off of a small points purchase they allow to pass ROFR since they get at least the minimum of $3,000 in fees (regardless of the amount of points purchased). That, in combination with the closing costs they would have to pay, may be enough incentive to let smaller points purchases pass at a lower price per point.


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> The broker did not volley between Marriott.  It was the actual Seller.  Originally the broker said she had a seller and that she would get me a contract.  However after 2 days the contract did not come.  I asked her where it was and she said the Seller contacted Marriott and received a price where net proceeds were higher.  I asked what the Marriott offer was and it was the same price as what I offered.  A few days later, she told me the Seller wanted to move forward with me.  Maybe the seller wanted to spite Marriott since they were taking a loss on the sale.  We will never know.
> 
> 
> The transaction was through a broker.  We folded the fees all-in and the contracted purchase price was $6800 with the Seller paying all transfer fees and closing costs.  The way I had the contract worded, if Marriott exercised their right, they would have to pay the purchase price of $6800.  Not $6800 less transfer fees.
> ...



Very interesting in that the seller was able to 'fish' an offer out of MVCI based on your interest. Also, very impressive in structuring the contract in a way that (short of a poison pill) would make an exercise of ROFR less appealing to MVCI. Please let us know your findings on whether the seller did ever receive the full purchase price where your contract was still ROFR'd.


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".
> 
> So from *your *perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the more typical model. But from *Marriott's* perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.
> 
> Any other thoughts from anyone else?



I agree. My initial response regarding ROFR prices dropping was using the $3.30 perspective. However, as you point out, the real 'valuation' may be entirely different depending on which side of the transaction you are looking at this from - thanks to what appears to be some well constructed contractual language (whch Steven may someday be persuaded to share with other interested potential resale points buyers ...?)


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.



Well done and welcome to the club within the club ...


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

hangloose said:


> MVCI Presidential is a great status level to have. It also gets you Marriott Platinum Elite status, if you aren’t already.
> 
> I wonder, how quickly will Marriott reflect the Platinum status update?  Does it happen automatically?  And will a linked SPG account also automatically update?
> 
> When MVCI DC status changes mid year, I assume you just pay any difference the following year when DC dues payment is due (ie. moving from Select to Presidential increases dues)?



As far as status updates, it should happen automatically. However, experiences have varied as to how quickly it posts. Marriott and SPG accounts should be linked, so upon posting the status change to Marriott it should post to your SPG account as well. Don't forget to link your SPG account to Delta Crossover Rewards (similar to how Marriott and United share some reciprocal benefits). SPG Platinum does get some consideration with Delta if you link those accounts. There have been previous posts on TUG regarding the various account linking opportunities as a result of MVC ownership status providing Marriott Rewards Elite status. You should be able to find them with a search.


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I just found out that my Marriott account has been upgraded to Platinum Elite.  However, I didn't find out from Marriott.  I found out from SPG through an email that said "You're Platinum with SPG."  That prompted me to login to Marriott and there it was.  So it looks like 2 days from when Marriott recorded and transferred the points to my account to when it was also reflected on Marriott.com for status.



Excellent. Next stop, Delta Crossover Rewards (via the SPG website).


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## JIMinNC (Jan 20, 2018)

kds4 said:


> Very interesting in that the seller was able to 'fish' an offer out of MVCI based on your interest. Also, very impressive in structuring the contract in a way that (short of a poison pill) would make an exercise of ROFR less appealing to MVCI. Please let us know your findings on whether the seller did ever receive the full purchase price where your contract was still ROFR'd.



Steven answered that question in the ROFR sticky thread https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/rofr-metric-ongoing-rofr-activity.226718/page-22

See posts #544 through #551


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## kds4 (Jan 20, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> Steven answered that question in the ROFR sticky thread https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/rofr-metric-ongoing-rofr-activity.226718/page-22
> 
> See posts #544 through #551



Found it. Thanks for the reference. Very interesting reading.


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## MadMike3 (May 1, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status.  My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential.  Previously I was Executive.  I was 775 points short.  Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold.  I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.
> 
> The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary.  I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.


Thanks Steve. Were the 1000 points you owned originally purchased from Marriott or on the secondary market?


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## Steve Arnold (Jul 28, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> I just found out that my Marriott account has been upgraded to Platinum Elite.  However, I didn't find out from Marriott.  I found out from SPG through an email that said "You're Platinum with SPG."  That prompted me to login to Marriott and there it was.  So it looks like 2 days from when Marriott recorded and transferred the points to my account to when it was also reflected on Marriott.com for status.



Hi Steven,

My ownership I believe is similar to what you had and just wanted to verity your experience since it has been about 6 months since you purchased points via resale market.
I own 3 time share weeks from Marriott in Hawaii and as a legacy owner am also enrolled in the MVCD program so I can exchange them for points - their point exchange comes out to 8125 per use year.

My plan/goal is to purchase 2000 pts in the resale market at about $4 per point and pay the transfer "junk" fee which is now $3 per point so the purchase rate is about $7 per point  verses direct from Marriott which is currently $13.96 per point.

We attended a Marriott roadshow today to get their pricing and incentives for comparison.
The sales manager insisted that if I purchase MVCD points from resale market they cannot be used to increase my MVC level from Executive to Presidential.

Your postings and experience goes counter to the salesman statement. 
1 - If I understand your experience, your resale purchase of points where added to your MVC account - not kept separate?

2 - The resale points you purchased are classified as direct ownership points and can be combined with your legacy exchange points in any given use year?

3 - The resale points you now own have been combined with your legacy points to determine your MVC status/level?

6 - You have the same use/exchange/banking priviledges for your level as anyone else - no restrictions due to some points being acquired from the resale market?

5 - The MVC benefit for Marriott rewards Elite upgrade was applied promoting you in your case to Marriott Rewards Platinum Elite

6 - Given the legacy ownership and the MVCD point direct ownership via your purchase of points, your points use year is based on an annual basis to coincide with your legacy point conversion usage

     or do you need to consider the point usage anniversary of the points that you purchased?

7 -  You may not be able to answer this question yet, Since you are now MR Platinum Elite by August 18 - you will be grandfathered as Platinum Premier Elite in the new program?


Anything else I need to be aware of if I am going to purchase resale points as noted here?


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 28, 2018)

Steve Arnold said:


> Hi Steven,
> 
> My ownership I believe is similar to what you had and just wanted to verity your experience since it has been about 6 months since you purchased points via resale market.
> I own 3 time share weeks from Marriott in Hawaii and as a legacy owner am also enrolled in the MVCD program so I can exchange them for points - their point exchange comes out to 8125 per use year.
> ...



I did the same thing right before Steven. I can answer:

1. Resale points added to the same MVC account, *as long as* the use periods are the same between your points in the MVC account and the resale points. Some points have different use periods. Marriots policy is to make a new account if use periods are different on resale points. 

2. The points function identically as other points you may own.

3. It does impact ownership level / status

4. You do have the same privileges

5. The elite upgrade applied including the resale points

6. I answered this in #1

7. No one knows for sure as it has not been announced.


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## Steve Arnold (Jul 29, 2018)

Hi Steve F,

Thanks for answering my questions.  
To guarantee that my purchase of resale points are the same use period between existing properties I own and the points that I plan to purchase;

If I understand use period for my existing week ownership Marriott Properties (legacy owner) belonging to MVCD program it is Jan 1 to December 31 for each each of my properties per statement below.
_As an Enrolled Owner, your Use Year begins on January 1 and ends December 31 each year. This is the period of time when you may use your Vacation Club Points for vacations. For example, you may use your 2017 Vacation Club Points for Vacations which occur between January 1 and December 31, 2017._​
For the points I plan to purchase how do I verify what their use period would be?

Thanks for helping with my lack of knowledge on this subject, but want to make sure I shop and purchase the right thing.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 29, 2018)

Steve Arnold said:


> Hi Steve F,
> 
> Thanks for answering my questions.
> To guarantee that my purchase of resale points are the same use period between existing properties I own and the points that I plan to purchase;
> ...



When you close on the purchase, after ROFR, you will be putting your MVCI account # on the paperwork so it goes into your existing account. It appears you have no existing points? If not, then the use period caveat should not matter as far as matching the points. Just purchase resale points with Jan 1 use period start date. 

I actually called MVCI for assistance to verify what the agent told me was true, they can verify your information for you to make sure your resale purchase will go into the existing account, in case anything has changed since 2 years ago when I did it. At the time I did it, it was only that the account # was correct, and, the names matched what was on file, and the use period matched.


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## Fasttr (Jul 29, 2018)

Steve Arnold said:


> For the points I plan to purchase how do I verify what their use period would be?


The Use Year is spelled out in the deed of the Trust points.  The owner should know what their Use Year is, but taking a look at the deed will tell you for sure.


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## taterhed (Jul 31, 2018)

Isn't it funny that you can get such clear answers and guidance on buying---here on TUG?

Too bad the information isn't as 'fair and balanced' when you go to a sales presentation....


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## Jeffrey (Sep 16, 2018)

Just to confirm, the latest formal information is that the Marriott junk fee for resale points is $3/point ?


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## Fasttr (Sep 16, 2018)

Jeffrey said:


> Just to confirm, the latest formal information is that the Marriott junk fee for resale points is $3/point ?


Correct.


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## StevenTing (Sep 18, 2018)

Jeffrey said:


> Just to confirm, the latest formal information is that the Marriott junk fee for resale points is $3/point ?



The junk fees and the reference can be found in my resale calculator that I created.  It is link #2 in my signature.  At the bottom I have notes referencing the specific section in the exchange procedures document and will also provide you with estimated closing costs.  I will have to update the exchange dues and MF beginning 1/1/2019 to reflect the updated amounts.


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