# RIPPED OFF BY HGVC? HELP!



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

In October of 2022 we signed for a HGVC in Las Vegas for Elara. The total cost was about $15,000 and we get 2560 points a year. Everything sounded good until we logged in and realized that 2560 points doesn't get you much of anything! Definitely not the "about 10 days" we were sold. Do I not know how to use the website or did we get completely ripped off? Either way we tried to get out of it and no one will return my phone call. The one woman I spoke to only tried to sell me more points. We need to get out of this! PLEASE HELP US!


----------



## HuskerATL (Dec 20, 2022)

Unfortunately, you are past the time frame to rescind and you are correct, 2,560 points won't get you much. There is a points guide on the HGV site to see how you can use them. I suspect studios during gold season or a few days during the week. Weekends and platinum season use more points. What type of unit is your deed for? I assume a studio in gold season. If that is the case, then you can get a week in it. You are guaranteed that.


----------



## chapjim (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> In October of 2022 we signed for a HGVC in Las Vegas for Elara. The total cost was about $15,000 and we get 2560 points a year. Everything sounded good until we logged in and realized that 2560 points doesn't get you much of anything! Definitely not the "about 10 days" we were sold. Do I not know how to use the website or did we get completely ripped off? Either way we tried to get out of it and no one will return my phone call. The one woman I spoke to only tried to sell me more points. We need to get out of this! PLEASE HELP US!



Hate to say it but your best shot is to double down, but not by buying from Hilton.  Check eBay for HGVC listings -- there are usually quite a few.  Then, read the listings carefully, compare maintenance fees ($/1,000 points), etc.  For a fraction of what you paid, you should be able to get a multiple of what you have.

Make sure you're looking at HGVC and not [resort name] by Hilton.  The latter would be a re-branded Diamond resort, not a bad resort but a different system.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Unfortunately, you are past the time frame to rescind and you are correct, 2,560 points won't get you much. There is a points guide on the HGV site to see how you can use them. I suspect studios during gold season or a few days during the week. Weekends and platinum season use more points. What type of unit is your deed for? I assume a studio in gold season. If that is the case, then you can get a week in it. You are guaranteed that.


All I know that it is at elara. How can I get rid of this?


----------



## bnoble (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> How can I get rid of this?


There are two answers to this.

One: If you still have a loan on the timeshare, you can't get rid of it until the loan is paid. You signed a legally binding contract, and the period during which you could have cancelled it has passed.

Two: If the purchase price of the timeshare is fully paid off, you can sell it. However, you will not get anything near what you paid for it.

That's why @chapjim gave you the advice he gave you: your best bet is to acquire more (resale!) points, so that you can use them for vacations. The value in timeshares is in their use. Don't feel too bad about this: Many of us were in a similar situation, and discovered that despite paying a little more than we could have, we really enjoy owning timeshares.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

chapjim said:


> Hate to say it but your best shot is to double down, but not by buying from Hilton.  Check eBay for HGVC listings -- there are usually quite a few.  Then, read the listings carefully, compare maintenance fees ($/1,000 points), etc.  For a fraction of what you paid, you should be able to get a multiple of what you have.
> 
> Make sure you're looking at HGVC and not [resort name] by Hilton.  The latter would be a re-branded Diamond resort, not a bad resort but a different system.


I don’t know what you mean by double down? Buy more? Absolutely not. I’m just trying to get out of it. How do you get ahold of the resale department?


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

bnoble said:


> There are two answers to this.
> 
> One: If you still have a loan on the timeshare, you can't get rid of it until the loan is paid. You signed a legally binding contract, and the period during which you could have cancelled it has passed.
> 
> ...


How much do you think during the buy back they would give me for it? At this point im so upset we might just take the loss and have learned our lesson.


----------



## yodaDaenerys (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> All I know that it is at elara. How can I get rid of this?


You can try to sell on eBay, but if you check there you will see it won't be worth much. If you want to take advantage of HGVC, maybe buy something additional on eBay as suggested already. You should find listings for much less than you paid, sadly. I'm also just finding out about TUG - wish I had known before I upgraded directly with HGVC earlier this year.


----------



## HuskerATL (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> All I know that it is at elara. How can I get rid of this?


You don't have a lot of options to get rid of it. You could try calling HGV but they probably won't do much, there are companies that may help you but most of them seem like scams, sell it but it has to be paid off and you won't get much for it and, more than likely, nobody will want it since the points are low, just stop paying for it, if you took out a loan but you may get a credit hit, or just make the best of it and use it.


----------



## alwysonvac (Dec 20, 2022)

Sorry you didn’t find us earlier.  

You can book 10 weekdays in a studio during Gold Season if that’s what the sales person was trying to spin.
Weekends (Fri, Sat and Sun) cost twice as many points as Weekdays (Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs).
Gold Season is week numbers 1-6, 23-34 and 46-50.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> You don't have a lot of options to get rid of it. You could try calling HGV but they probably won't do much, there are companies that may help you but most of them seem like scams, sell it but it has to be paid off and you won't get much for it and, more than likely, nobody will want it since the points are low, just stop paying for it, if you took out a loan but you may get a credit hit, or just make the best of it and use it.


Even after it’s paid off it’s about 1000 a year so it’s really not worth it!


----------



## zentraveler (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> I don’t know what you mean by double down? Buy more? Absolutely not. I’m just trying to get out of it. How do you get ahold of the resale department?


If I can make a suggestion PGRIF, you are past your rescind period so you do have some time to think about this. Take a deep breath or several  hundred, read through the suggestions again, and spend some time on TUG. You have time to get educated about your options. I know this feels awful, but don't make it worse by being in too much of a hurry. You may find something that can work for you if you slow down and try to get out of panic mode. We all get it; it feels terrible and you want it to go away.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

zentraveler said:


> If I can make a suggestion PGRIF, you are past your rescind period so you do have some time to think about this. Take a deep breath or several  hundred, read through the suggestions again, and spend some time on TUG. You have time to get educated about your options. I know this feels awful, but don't make it worse by being in too much of a hurry. You may find something that can work for you if you slow down and try to get out of panic mode. We all get it; it feels terrible and you want it to go away.


 exactly. It’s too much stress definitely with all the holidays and realizing how screwed and foolish you are! I know that the best bet would be to try to pay it off asap because of interest. That’s as far as I’ve gotten thus far.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

zentraveler said:


> If I can make a suggestion PGRIF, you are past your rescind period so you do have some time to think about this. Take a deep breath or several  hundred, read through the suggestions again, and spend some time on TUG. You have time to get educated about your options. I know this feels awful, but don't make it worse by being in too much of a hurry. You may find something that can work for you if you slow down and try to get out of panic mode. We all get it; it feels terrible and you want it to go away.


Thank you!


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Dec 20, 2022)

.

As you are quickly finding out, most timeshares are worth little or nothing and can be purchased on the resale market for a fraction of the cost of a retail purchase.

That said, you are an owner now and the best thing to do is to make the best with what you have.  One option may be to consider reserving "juicy dates" and renting those out to offset your expenses.

As long as you have a loan outstanding then you are stuck with it.  Unless you plan to walk away then your best bet is to get the loan paid off so you can then unload your points.

Best of luck!




.


----------



## yodaDaenerys (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> How much do you think during the buy back they would give me for it? At this point im so upset we might just take the loss and have learned our lesson.


When you say 'they', if you mean HGVC, I don't think they are in the business of buying back, unless you want to upgrade with them. It may also be difficult to just walk away - you are obligated to pay the annual maintenance fees.

With those points you could get a studio for a week in Myrtle beach during late March. I don't see you getting 2 weeks anywhere, sadly. Mon-Thur nights are less points. Hopefully they gave you a bunch of bonus points too.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

yodaDaenerys said:


> You can try to sell on eBay, but if you check there you will see it won't be worth much. If you want to take advantage of HGVC, maybe buy something additional on eBay as suggested already. You should find listings for much less than you paid, sadly. I'm also just finding out about TUG - wish I had known before I upgraded directly with HGVC earlier this year.


How much do points typically go for on eBay?


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

yodaDaenerys said:


> When you say 'they', if you mean HGVC, I don't think they are in the business of buying back, unless you want to upgrade with them. It may also be difficult to just walk away - you are obligated to pay the annual maintenance fees.


Yes I mean hgvc. I think they have a resale option. I’m not sure though that’s why I’m here!


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 20, 2022)

resale points sell for pennies on the dollar....so considering "selling them back" is still going to result in a staggering loss to you...and thats even if HGVC offered you a dime (which i doubt they would given the small number of points you bought).  an option with an equally limited chance of success would be to explore rescinding even though you are out of your legal period.  squeaky wheel gets the grease and it costs you nothing to try!

However basically at this point you have a nice timeshare (albeit a limited one, given you bought a tiny number of points)...that you paid far too much for.

you can either look to the resale market to INCREASE the number of points you have (note, buying resale is far cheaper than what you paid already) and likely accomplish your goal of actually owning a usable HGVC points package.

or you can default on the loan and the fees and suffer the consequences.

folks here are trying to help you, and despite it sounding all negative...the truth often hurts.  Id also bet you wish youd have gotten some of this hard hitting advice before you bought in October!


----------



## dayooper (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> Even after it’s paid off it’s about 1000 a year so it’s really not worth it!


Unfortunately, you will not be able to sell it (it will be very hard to get any money). You can try to give it away, but that small amount points associated with that deed will be pretty difficult. You don't have a bunch of options here. If you paid cash (or are able to pay off the load), you can not pay the MF's and let the HOA take back the deed. This way, there's a decent chance (not guaranteed) that they won't report this on your credit. If you just default on the loan, you probably will take a hit in your credit and any other consequences that may arise.


PGRIF said:


> Yes I mean hgvc. I think they have a resale option. I’m not sure though that’s why I’m here!


Their resale option is an outside broker and they take a good chunk of the proceeds. If they like the deed, they may take it back. That being said, they also have a Right of First Refusal option (HGVC can buy a deed at the price an owner is selling the deed to another person for). Except for the South Carolina properties, they have bought back very little in the past 3 years. This includes very good prices on great deeds.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> Sorry you didn’t find us earlier.
> 
> You can book 10 weekdays in a studio during Gold Season if that’s what the sales person was trying to spin.
> Weekends (Fri, Sat and Sun) cost twice as many points as Weekdays (Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs).
> ...


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

TUGBrian said:


> resale points sell for pennies on the dollar....so considering "selling them back" is still going to result in a staggering loss to you...and thats even if HGVC offered you a dime (which i doubt they would given the small number of points you bought).  an option with an equally limited chance of success would be to explore rescinding even though you are out of your legal period.  squeaky wheel gets the grease and it costs you nothing to try!
> 
> However basically at this point you have a nice timeshare (albeit a limited one, given you bought a tiny number of points)...that you paid far too much for.
> 
> ...



At this point I’ll take the loss to not hit our credit score because we are hoping to buy a house. Is there any kind of attorney we can contact?


----------



## alwysonvac (Dec 20, 2022)

Here’s a strategy a TUG member used to make 2560 work for his Hawaii trips using HGVC.   

From https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/longtime-reader-new-member.344045/



FilthyForever said:


> Hello Fellow HGVC Tuggers!
> 
> My name is Rich, and I've been following this forum for a long time. Given I've owned in the Hilton system for 10 years now and just completed my first successful resale purchase, I figured it was time to join the conversation.
> 
> ...


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Unfortunately, you will not be able to sell it (it will be very hard to get any money). You can try to give it away, but that small amount points associated with that deed will be pretty difficult. You don't have a bunch of options here. If you paid cash (or are able to pay off the load), you can not pay the MF's and let the HOA take back the deed. This way, there's a decent chance (not guaranteed) that they won't report this on your credit. If you just default on the loan, you probably will take a hit in your credit and any other consequences that may arise.
> 
> Their resale option is an outside broker and they take a good chunk of the proceeds. If they like the deed, they may take it back. That being said, they also have a Right of First Refusal option (HGVC can buy a deed at the price an owner is selling the deed to another person for). Except for the South Carolina properties, they have bought back very little in the past 3 years. This includes very good prices on great deeds.


I wish I could understand this better! I contacted them about a resale and they got back to me within 12 hrs but unfortunately they called my husband who never picks up at work. So I’m waiting for their call back again. From what I’m hearing… pay it off and if they offer to buy it back no matter what the offer is… do it to get out of the obligation and credit hit. It will just be a 15k loss… :,(


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Dec 20, 2022)

You'll likely be wasting your hard earned money with an Attorney so do explore any other option.  You'll only be spending more money in trying to break an iron clad contract that you willingly agreed to.

HGVC has been around a long time and they have firm footing in their documentation so you won't be able to break that no matter how much you spend to try to do so.




.



.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> Here’s a strategy a TUG member used to make 2560 work for his Hawaii trips using HGVC.
> 
> From https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/longtime-reader-new-member.344045/


I’m not f ing kidding you I think this is the sales man!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bnoble (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> Is there any kind of attorney we can contact?


To accomplish what?


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> You'll likely be wasting your hard earned money with an Attorney so do explore any other option.  You'll only be spending more money in trying to break an iron clad contract that you willingly agreed to.
> 
> HGVC has been around a long time and they have firm footing in their documentation so you won't be able to break that no matter how much you spend to try to do so.
> 
> ...


Could I gift it to someone who already owns one? So essentially they get my points and deed without having to pay the 15k and it gets me out of the yearly obligation?


----------



## Venter (Dec 20, 2022)

On Ebay a gold studio at Elara sold for $320.  That is probably what you will get.  Maybe a little more, maybe a little less.
Maybe, while you take those deep breaths have look at points charts of places you would like to go and see if it makes sence to pay $1000(that is you maintenance fees) somewhere for a weekend or a week.  Remember you can use those points to book into something larger or go at a more peak season time.  You must have seen some value in staying in something bigger than a hotel room.  The $15 000 are sunk but you gould still leverage the $1000 a year to you advantage.  I do not own Hilton but I understand that being part of the club could snag some pretty cheap and great last minute deals.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

bnoble said:


> To accomplish what?


To get rid of it…


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Dec 20, 2022)

You can't gift it if you owe money on it......



.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> You can't gift it if you owe money on it......
> 
> 
> 
> .


If it’s paid off


----------



## dayooper (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> If it’s paid off


Yes, that’s an option, but you will have to find someone to give it to. You may have to pay part of the fees and closing costs to make it more appealing.


----------



## bnoble (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> To get rid of it…


Here's the situation you find yourself in.

You signed a contract. That contract provided a period during which you could back out of it (rescind), but that period is over. At this point, you legally own (and owe payments on) a piece of real property.

Many people in your position want some way to undo this, but in general, no such way exists. Timeshare developers have many talented in-house lawyers who spent a lot of time drafting that contract you signed. It is crafted in a way that makes it very hard to undo after the rescission period has ended. The most a lawyer can do is write a strongly worded letter asking Hilton to take it back, maybe with a veiled threat of further action if they don't. But, Hilton has received thousands of such letters. Hilton knows they have a good contract, and that the chances that any lawyer will actually prevail in court are basically zero. So they will respond to your lawyer (if they respond at all) with a letter that effectively tells you to pound sand.

Hilton being Hilton, they will probably say it very nicely. But they will say it.

There is no legal principle that will magically get you out of this. Any lawyer who tells you otherwise is just looking for a fee. If you pay them that fee, you are only throwing good money after bad.

The only way to get rid of it is to get someone to agree to take it from you in exchange for some consideration. Hilton _might_ be that somebody, but they probably are not.

I wish this were not the case. But it is.


----------



## RX8 (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> If it’s paid off



Sorry about your predicament. HGVC gives you a period of time to review all that you signed up for with an opportunity to cancel everything. Unfortunately, as you are finding out, you are way past the period to cancel. 

Your choices, as others have stated, are to keep it and learn to maximize the usage, which may include buying more points on the resale market to supplement what you own, OR pay it off and then give it away, which may even result in you paying closing OR stop paying and let it foreclose. 

As @dayooper says, it can be given away or gifted, if it is paid off. There is very little chance that HGVC would exercise ROFR even at a $0 sale price. Unfortunately, your specific deed has zero resale value so you might even have to pay closing to entice someone to take it off your hands, even if free. 

A suggestion. When you finally get ahold of HGVC fully explain your situation. If they refuse to let you out of your obligation, which I doubt they will let you cancel, then try to negotiate out. If the loan is in-house, tell them you will pay it off only if they take back the deed as a non-foreclosure otherwise they can proceed to foreclose with you paying nothing more. Only you can decide if this is the best route for you.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Yes, that’s an option, but you will have to find someone to give it to. You may have to pay part of the fees and closing costs to make it more appealing.


Yes…


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 20, 2022)

@PGRIF, You weren't ripped off. Yes, you overpaid, but at least half of us did exactly the same thing. Bought at retail, and missed the one-time opportunity to rescind and dodge the bullet entirely. 

You saw value in what you bought back in October. Try to concentrate on that value for you and your family. There are no 'easy outs' at this time. DO NOT call any of those 'get you out of your timeshare' outfits. They are ALL the real rip offs. They will take more of your money and do nothing more except ask for more to extend their worthless, obscure ad to sell it at some extravagant price. When this results in a foreclosure and credit hit for you, they say, 'We got you out of the TS like we promised.'

My advice: Pay it off as quickly as possible. USE IT for weekday getaways. HGVC is a good system and while you bought the 'low priced- entry' model, and expected the full featured luxury result, you are getting what you bought. If you want all the bells and whistles, you can add more points via resale at much lower cost. OR alternately, after it's paid off and current, you can sell what you have, and chalk this up to experience.

We wish you well!

Jim


----------



## Hobokie (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> If it’s paid off


If it's paid off, you can gift it yes.  

Like others have said, take a breath (or 100!) and start to look at this in detail so you can make the best of it  

Your annual HOA/Maintenance Fee is not quite $1k, I own an Elara Studio Plus unit which gives me 5,600 points and costs $901.24 including the $199 club dues... I just looked at the points (2,560) and it looks like you own a Studio Gold (but not plus) so you are prob paying at least $100-$200 less than me?  Let me tell you what this gives you so that you don't feel so terrible... 

First things first, you can book a full week at Elara in a studio during the Gold season (this is the Home Week concept you will read about if you hang around here)
You can use RCI and exchange for something really cool like a catamaran weeklong experience in St Martin (while on the HGV site, click on "Club" and then "RCI and Resort Exchange" and then "Access your RCI Account".  So yes, your HGV includes an RCI membership
You can use "Open Season" (book with cash vs points) to book HGVC when you don't have enough points or when it makes sense... For example, if you want to show off and invite friends to the pimp 4 bedroom with the red at the top of Elara, you can use cash and book this for 2 nights (Fri + Sat) for $1,064 all in... You can also book a studio at Ocean Tower (Big Island) for $1,122 all in for a week... so yes, Open Season could work out really nicely for you!    
You can use Bonus Points (I'm guessing you got at least 7k) -- @PGRIF how many did you get??
Did you get enrolled into the Max program with your purchase @PGRIF ?  I ask because you paid $15k and this feels a bit higher than usual for the number of pts (sorry, not trying to make you feel worse, trying to help you dig into the details!) 

In summary... yes, when you pay this off you can gift it, but in the meantime, might as well use it!  We are here to help if you have questions


----------



## magmue (Dec 20, 2022)

And to reinforce what Passepartout said: 

You have probably been searching the internet for help, and have probably seen dozens of companies offering some version of help-you-get-out-of-your-timeshare. They are the biggest rip off of all. *Do not sign on with anyone who asks for $ up front* no matter how much you want to believe their can'promises. They prey on folks like you who signed up for a timeshare product they didn't fully understand. They will make promises they can't know they can't keep in order to part you from more of your money. Timeshare exit companies truly are a rip off.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Dec 20, 2022)

Do you or hubby like Formula 1 racing?  Book home week ASAP for next November races. You can use it or rent it out for several thousand to cover the cost of Maint Fees ++++. This is a gold week so high value.


----------



## chapjim (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> How much do points typically go for on eBay?



You can do research on eBay as well as anyone else.

You are looking for someone to sprinkle pixie dust on your purchase and make it all better.  Ain't gonna happen.

You didn't like what I told you, which I still think is your best way forward.  HGVC has some fabulous resorts that will result in great vacations, which no doubt was what you had in mind when you signed the purchase agreement.  Don't give up on HGVC so quickly.  Here are five reputable internet timeshare sales sites, recommended time and again by TUGGERs:

Seth Nock's team - www.sellingtimeshares.net
Diane and Don Nadeau - https://www.timesharebrokersales.com/
Judi Kozlowski's team - www.timeshareprofessionals.com
Syed Sarmad - https://advantagevacation.com/
Carl Thomas - http://timeshare-resale.com 

If the loan is paid off, you can stop paying maintenance fees right now and not send another penny to HGVC.  HGVC will call, write, cajole, wheedle, and harrass you for payment but eventually, it will go to foreclosure.  A credit hit is possible but will be much less painful than having wages garnished if you defaulted on the loan agreement.  I don't advise this but it is an option.

Where (in what state) did you sign the purchase agreement?  It might make a difference when it comes to foreclosure.

I am a licensed attorney (Virginia) in retired status so this is not and never would have been legal advice.


----------



## tschwa2 (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> At this point I’ll take the loss to not hit our credit score because we are hoping to buy a house. Is there any kind of attorney we can contact?


An attorney would be useful if you have evidence/proof that there was fraud committed and/or that HGVC is not honoring the provisions of the contract.  There really isn't any magic way a lawyer can get you out of a legal contract.  They may help you negotiate with HGVC but that help probably won't be cheap and they may not have any better luck than you would have advocating for yourself.


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 20, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> At this point I’ll take the loss to not hit our credit score because we are hoping to buy a house. Is there any kind of attorney we can contact?


a bankruptcy attorney would likely be your best bet...

there is no specialized attorney that can magically make your legitimate loan balance disappear.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

Hobokie said:


> If it's paid off, you can gift it yes.
> 
> Like others have said, take a breath (or 100!) and start to look at this in detail so you can make the best of it
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this response! I think it’s 950 or something like that a year. I do believe it’s max but I didn’t know what the difference is. It sounds like what we have is very similar! If not the same pitch haha. I need to know what all I can do with this thing because from the sound of it we’re stuck with it.


----------



## Talent312 (Dec 20, 2022)

I recently gave away 5,600 annual-point TS that I'd owned for 22 years.
HGVC's resale peep said to list it for $1,500, but I knew that'd be wasted time.
So I listed it in TUG's "Buying, Selling... >Bargains" forum and found a taker.

How to make a unit with so few points work?
You can use club bookings for smaller sizes & weekdays only (M-F).
You can also borrow and bank points to aggregate the points.

But I agree with others who say to cut your losses and give it away.
.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 20, 2022)

TUGBrian said:


> a bankruptcy attorney would likely be your best bet...
> 
> there is no specialized attorney that can magically make your legitimate loan balance disappear.
> 
> ...


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 20, 2022)

Quote @PGRIF: if you default on payments can they take your assets.

Only if they get a judgement. You are a LONG way from being sued for whatever it may take to get a judgement. In the vast majority of cases, if you default (stop paying) you will have many opportunities to pay up, get current, and then unload the timeshare. Yes, you took on debt. Voluntarily. Nobody MADE you buy this. You are not alone in buying a timeshare on impulse from an aggressive sales team. Get over it. You saw value. Pay it off Use it. Then decide if you want to walk away.

Welcome to TUG. Stick around here. We have heard it ALL. There are NO Surprises. 

You have been given good advice. You (as adults) made the decision to make a purchase. You in initialed on the contract that you understood the right to rescind. Either honor your commitment or prepare to deal with the consequences.

I'm done here. Good Night.


----------



## chapjim (Dec 20, 2022)

TUGBrian said:


> a bankruptcy attorney would likely be your best bet...
> 
> there is no specialized attorney that can magically make your legitimate loan balance disappear.



If you stop making payments on the purchase loan, definitely yes,

If you stop paying maintenance  fees, it is unlikely that HGVC would do much more than make noise for a while, after which they would start  foreclosure proceedings.


----------



## rrsafety (Dec 21, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> How much do you think during the buy back they would give me for it? At this point im so upset we might just take the loss and have learned our lesson.


Ebay shows one at Elara that sold for only $1 but the buyer paid upwards of $2,000 in fees, but that money didn't go to the seller. Also, looking here https://www.go-koala.com/resort/ela...=0&mfBd=0&flexibility=&dateOption=exact_dates it seems you can get a week in a studio for about $840 including booking fees which is less than the "about $1000" in MF you mentioned. If Elara is your resort of choice, it is likely that doubling down on points even at $1 (plus the $2000 in fees) is still unlikely to work out for you. I might be cheaper to just make a reservation directly each time you want to use it.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Dec 21, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> Even after it’s paid off it’s about 1000 a year so it’s really not worth it!



If you bought a new car for $ 15K - would you give it away for nothing ?

- because the dealer told you it got better gas mileage than it actually does / and you have to pay $ 1000 in gas each year........
***********

@PGRIF    -  Unless you have no plans to ever vacation again in your lifetime ; I would suggest you use the collective wisdom of TUG / Timeshare Users Group
to maximize your vacation and travel usage of what you bought.

@chapjim ,@bnoble , [USER=25028]@TheTimeTraveler[/USER] and others are giving you good advice.


----------



## GTLINZ (Dec 21, 2022)

It is certainly possible, as others have suggested, to draw more than $950 worth of vacations every year using your points. At least that would be some consolation. 

Hence, you would be making lemonaide out of a lemon.


----------



## bnoble (Dec 21, 2022)

rrsafety said:


> it is likely that doubling down on points even at $1 (plus the $2000 in fees) is still unlikely to work out for you.


This is why e.g. @chapjim suggested looking to blend this with a (resale) ownership that has a better point/$ ratio. A second Gold Studio week at Elara is probably not going to be that thing.


----------



## Talent312 (Dec 21, 2022)

I doubt HGVC would be quick to start foreclosure.
This is a dog of a unit they don't want on their books.

After a bunch of late notices, a negative credit note,
and then a lock-out, they'll wait for 2-3 years more.
They'll wait to see if someone eventually covers it.
.


----------



## letsgobobby (Dec 21, 2022)

i would use it as intended for a year or two - a week in gold season at your home resort. see if you like it. if not, lesson learned, dump it. if you enjoy, you could them decide whether to keep/blend or sell and buy a different unit. 

Right now we're staying in a beautiful one bedroom in Charleston SC and you could do that for ~ 4-5 nights on your points. that is absolutely worth your $900 or whatever MF.


----------



## FilthyForever (Dec 21, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> Here’s a strategy a TUG member used to make 2560 work for his Hawaii trips using HGVC.
> 
> From https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/longtime-reader-new-member.344045/


I'm the 2,560 Hawaii guy, and I'll add that a spreadsheet will help you optimize and stretch your points...


----------



## yodaDaenerys (Dec 21, 2022)

for reference, if you try to sell it on eBay, this listing appears to be the same as yours, but points/maintenance fees are given/due EVERY OTHER year. It's listed (not sold) for $200, plus a bunch of closing costs. i agree with the post above - try the program out a year or two to see how you like it. unfortunately, i've paid retail price on 4 separate HGVC purchases now (don't i feel dumb), but i've enjoyed the vacations. the program and deed will be my kids when i can no longer use it.

sorry about the double post - it seemed to have disappeared. if a moderator can delete my post #56, that would be cool.


----------



## dougp26364 (Dec 25, 2022)

Just looking at the cheapest room at Planet Hollywood for a January week, which is equivalent to a gold HGVC week, you’d be paying a little more than the annual fees on your Hilton purchase. With Hilton you can book different locations within their system. With MAX you have a greater selection of resorts from which to book.

You made a mistake of buying the least expensive package while looking at the most expensive rooms. Sort of like buying a Kia Rio but you were testing driving a Lamborghini. It happens. Their sales staff is slick.

So, now you have a few choices.

1. Learn how to use and maximize what you purchased.

2. Using the resale market, buy a second contract that  has enough points to accomplish what you originally set out to do for your vacations.

3. Default on your loan and take the hit to your credit rating.

4. Pay it off and hope to find someone to take it off your hands and suffer the loss of $15,000 plus whatever transfer fees you may end up paying.

Your already locked in. Take a few months and figure out how to use what you own. Book a couple of nights or a week. Visit the HGVC owners web site frequently and see what and where you could book a few nights or a week. IOW, figure out how you can best make use of what you own instead of jumping of the financial bridge you seem bound and determined to leap from.

BTW, if you think you’ve been scammed by a HGVC salesman, you ain’t seen nothing yet. You’ll begin to get calls every day from people telling you they can get you out of your timeshare. If they ask for money upfront, you can be 100% certain of two things.
1. You’ll never see that money again despite their “guarantee’s”
2. You’ll still be holding the deed to your timeshare at the end of the day.

Please don’t fall for one of these timeshare exit company scams.


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 26, 2022)

Well, I wonder what (if anything) @PGRIF chooses to do. They haven't been on TUG since Wednesday. I hope they choose to use what they bought.


----------



## dougp26364 (Dec 26, 2022)

Passepartout said:


> Well, I wonder what (if anything) @PGRIF chooses to do. They haven't been on TUG since Wednesday. I hope they choose to use what they bought.



Odds are they’ll get hooked by an upfront fee company telling them they can get them out of this deal. They’ll lose more money believing more lies. It’s unfortunate but we see it all the time. Despite the fact there is a ton of practical experience in these forums, it’s easier to believe the lies than the truth.


----------



## dayooper (Dec 26, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Odds are they’ll get hooked by an upfront fee company telling them they can get them out of this deal. They’ll lose more money believing more lies. It’s unfortunate but we see it all the time. Despite the fact there is a ton of practical experience in these forums, it’s easier to believe the lies than the truth.



It’s easier to believe what you want to believe. It’s the hallmark of misinformation and scams.


----------



## GTLINZ (Dec 30, 2022)

dayooper said:


> It’s easier to believe what you want to believe. It’s the hallmark of misinformation and scams.



Unfortunately, it is human nature to try and find a way to erase a mistake - which oftens leads to making further mistakes. 

As posted earlier, there was some desire by the OP to use the ownership or it would not have been bought.  The initial investment is long gone, but the opportunity to take trips worth more than the yearly MF is still there. In as way it helps recoup some of the lost investment.  HGVC is a great system.


----------



## dayooper (Dec 30, 2022)

GTLINZ said:


> Unfortunately, it is human nature to try and find a way to erase a mistake - which oftens leads to making further mistakes.
> 
> As posted earlier, there was some desire by the OP to use the ownership or it would not have been bought.  The initial investment is long gone, but the opportunity to take trips worth more than the yearly MF is still there. In as way it helps recoup some of the lost investment.  *HGVC is a great system.*


While I don’t trust anything sales says and am unhappy with what sales has been allowed to do over the past year, HGVC is a great product! We have never been disappointed at any resort or property. They are great and the service has been exceptional. They have gone out of their way to accommodate almost everything we wanted (within reason, of course).

We will be trying out one of the older properties this summer (Tuscany in Orlando), but have heard nothing but good things.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Dec 30, 2022)

You bought a lemon, learn how to make lemonaid.  

Trust me LOTS of people purchased from the developer and then learned more info after it was too late to rescind. There would never be a resale market if units were not sold in the first place.  

Stop, breath, relax, get more info, then make a smart decision, not a hasty one. 

I think buying additional points, on the cheap, via a resale, will allow you to double or triple your points without much more $$ out of pocket.  Then you will be able to travel when and where you like. 

Getting sucessful use of what you have is the best revenge against buying from the developer.


----------



## GTLINZ (Dec 30, 2022)

dayooper said:


> We will be trying out one of the older properties this summer (Tuscany in Orlando), but have heard nothing but good things.



We love Tuscany village on I Drive. I think we have stayed there 30+ times and it used to be our home away from home.  We really used open season a lot years ago when it was cheaper and would get 2brs and travel with friends or family. Our kids loved it too but have outgrown Orlando. It is certainly our favorite Orlando HGVC property.

They used to have the most amazing water feature (half a huge bird bath) but they chose not to replace it. You will see it in some old pictures. They had an amazing mural at the bar/restaurant that is also gone. 

Unlike the Seaworld property, all of the bldgs are close together so no really long walks. Try and get a unit facing the lake - the fountains usually run at night and are lighted.  Building 6 and 7 were our favorites (newer).


----------



## dayooper (Dec 30, 2022)

GTLINZ said:


> We love Tuscany village on I Drive. I think we have stayed there 30+ times and it used to be our home away from home.  We really used open season a lot years ago when it was cheaper and would get 2brs and travel with friends or family. Our kids loved it too but have outgrown Orlando. It is certainly our favorite Orlando HGVC property.
> 
> They used to have the most amazing water feature (half a huge bird bath) but they chose not to replace it. You will see it in some old pictures. They had an amazing mural at the bar/restaurant that is also gone.
> 
> Unlike the Seaworld property, all of the bldgs are close together so no really long walks. Try and get a unit facing the lake - the fountains usually run at night and are lighted.  Building 6 and 7 were our favorites (newer).


We were thinking of requesting either building 1,2,6 or 7 so your recommendation matches what we were thinking. We’re not huge on Orlando, but we thought we would give it a shot this year. Going to Universal, Epcot and Hollywood Studios. Does HGVC offer any discounts on park tickets without a sales meeting? Are all the buildings set up the same? We have a 3 bedroom reserved as we are potentially bringing 7 people (6 for sure).


----------



## GTLINZ (Dec 30, 2022)

dayooper said:


> We were thinking either 1,2,6 or 7 so your recommendation matches what we were thinking. We’re not huge on Orlando, but we thought we would give it a shot this year. Going to Universal, Epcot and Hollywood Studios. Does HGVC offer any discounts on park tickets without a sales meeting? Are all the buildings set up the same? We have a 3 bedroom reserved as we are potentially bringing 7 people (6 for sure).


UPDATED:

The buildings are basically the same with the exception of number of floors.   I think the first 2 buildings are 5 floors, the last is 7 floors, and the rest are 6 floors. The bldg numbers are sequential and were built in order (1-7) so bldg 1 is the oldest. Building 1 starts by the main pool, buildings 4 and 5 face each other on the opposite end where the adult pool is and buildings 5-7 are across the lake but you can use the bridge.   We stayed in building 1 once and it was nice to be by the main pool but understandably noisy.

Some buildings have 3brs (studio lockoff with a true 2br) at the back on each side, the others instead have 2 1brs on each side in the back - so since you have a 3br you will not have much of a lake view and you have a true 2br and a studio lockoff. We really liked the 3br setup -the master has a nice large shower and the second br has twin beds - then the normal lockoff studio. It seems i remember there is an extra bathroom too since the master bath is not really accessible except to the master br.  The twin beds helped with more people too.  I am pretty sure that the 3brs are in buildings 1. 2 and 7.  We did 3brs often with family and usually requested building 7 - the back of that building is not exactly next to another building so it has more open space so a bit more light.

I am not a fan of the 1st floor rooms, they are a bit musty like most other places with a ground floor.

We never did a sales tour without getting our rooms included - but I suspect they will do credits.  The last few "owners updates" were so brutal we will not do that again.


----------



## Nowaker (Dec 30, 2022)

FilthyForever said:


> I'm the 2,560 Hawaii guy, and I'll add that a spreadsheet will help you optimize and stretch your points...
> 
> View attachment 70517



Could you share it in a separate thread with others, as a "View by everyone with a link" on Google Docs, so others could make their copy and run their numbers? It's very useful for basically everyone - not just one guy who got "ripped off" and doesn't really intend to educate themselves in the system


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> Sorry you didn’t find us earlier.
> 
> You can book 10 weekdays in a studio during Gold Season if that’s what the sales person was trying to spin.
> Weekends (Fri, Sat and Sun) cost twice as many points as Weekdays (Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs).
> ...



This is exactly it. I feel foolish to say the least. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

RX8 said:


> Sorry about your predicament. HGVC gives you a period of time to review all that you signed up for with an opportunity to cancel everything. Unfortunately, as you are finding out, you are way past the period to cancel.
> 
> Your choices, as others have stated, are to keep it and learn to maximize the usage, which may include buying more points on the resale market to supplement what you own, OR pay it off and then give it away, which may even result in you paying closing OR stop paying and let it foreclose.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate your input! Thank you for your response! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

Passepartout said:


> @PGRIF, You weren't ripped off. Yes, you overpaid, but at least half of us did exactly the same thing. Bought at retail, and missed the one-time opportunity to rescind and dodge the bullet entirely.
> 
> You saw value in what you bought back in October. Try to concentrate on that value for you and your family. There are no 'easy outs' at this time. DO NOT call any of those 'get you out of your timeshare' outfits. They are ALL the real rip offs. They will take more of your money and do nothing more except ask for more to extend their worthless, obscure ad to sell it at some extravagant price. When this results in a foreclosure and credit hit for you, they say, 'We got you out of the TS like we promised.'
> 
> ...



This hit home. I feel like an idiot. I really appreciate your response! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

Hello all! I planned on responding on each and every one of these personally until I lost track. I can’t believe the comradely here! I don’t feel so helpless. Y’all are amazing! I appreciate each and every person who took the time to read this thread. Being a 28 yr old newlywed, my husband and I saw the stars… this was an extremely emotional (and intoxicated) decision we made. As of now HGV has been trying to contact me (phone tag because of holidays) I hope to talk to them next week. What we will discuss… I’m still unsure. I know the facts of the matter but still see I was deceived and we shouldn’t have been drinking. Either way I appreciate all the great advice! I will take all into account! After I speak to them I will let you know the positive negative or other response! Much love! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

Passepartout said:


> Well, I wonder what (if anything) @PGRIF chooses to do. They haven't been on TUG since Wednesday. I hope they choose to use what they bought.



She chose to breathe for a moment 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

GTLINZ said:


> Unfortunately, it is human nature to try and find a way to erase a mistake - which oftens leads to making further mistakes.
> 
> As posted earlier, there was some desire by the OP to use the ownership or it would not have been bought. The initial investment is long gone, but the opportunity to take trips worth more than the yearly MF is still there. In as way it helps recoup some of the lost investment. HGVC is a great system.



Is it really a great system though? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GT75 (Dec 31, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> As of now HGV has been trying to contact me (phone tag because of holidays) I hope to talk to them next week. What we will discuss… I’m still unsure.


Be careful, because I suspect that HGVC will only try to sell you more.  They do this EVERY owners update.


----------



## dougp26364 (Dec 31, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> Hello all! I planned on responding on each and every one of these personally until I lost track. I can’t believe the comradely here! I don’t feel so helpless. Y’all are amazing! I appreciate each and every person who took the time to read this thread. Being a 28 yr old newlywed, my husband and I saw the stars… this was an extremely emotional (and intoxicated) decision we made. As of now HGV has been trying to contact me (phone tag because of holidays) I hope to talk to them next week. What we will discuss… I’m still unsure. I know the facts of the matter but still see I was deceived and we shouldn’t have been drinking. Either way I appreciate all the great advice! I will take all into account! After I speak to them I will let you know the positive negative or other response! Much love!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It’s for situations such as yours that states require a cooling off period built into every contract. Each state varies, but in general you have up to a week to rescind any timeshare contract without consequence. After that period has expired, your sunk. 

Any company that tells you they can get you out of this and requires an upfront payment is just out to take your money. Don’t fall for this additional scam.

We bought our first timeshare in our early 30’s. Our original reason for purchasing was we never took vacation. I wasn’t about to spend that sort of money and not waste my money. That first one cost me $19,800 and was a 2 bedroom unit at Polo Towers. We enjoyed it so much that after the first stay we doubled down and bought a second week, then the next year we upgraded our original unit in the Suites Tower to a Villas unit in the third tower. We started in 1998 and by the time we were done we were $43,000 in before really beginning to learn what we had and how to use it efficiently.

Over time we’ve bought and sold several timeshares. Selling has always been a losing proposition, but they were timeshares we had “outgrown”. We consolidated most of our ownership in the Marriott system (fits our needs best) but also own a deed with Hilton, Breckenridge Grand Vacations and Spinnaker. Spinnaker has become an albatross for us and the one week I haven’t been able to even give away. Fortunately it’s an every other year week, has low fees and is one we can still use and enjoy.

You bought the smallest contract Hilton owns, so unlike many here, you got off cheap. Hilton is o e of the better systems, so you’re in a good position. Hilton also doesn’t severely curtail the ability of resale buyers to use their system, so your in a great position to actually get what you originally thought you were buying without spending nearly $100,000 in retail costs. IOW, you haven’t done bad, even though it could have been better. 

Before jumping in deeper, learn to use what you own. Maybe save one years point, borrow the next years points and combined e all of them with the current years points and take a really nice vacation to get a good feel of how a timeshare vacation works. We never want to go back to staying in a hotel room again. We love the 1 bedroom units and resorts that we book. Staying in a condo, usually in the middle of the action and at a resort with lots of amenties beats staying at a hotel or VRBO for us. 

Timeshare takes some work and planning. It’s not for everyone. Most people I know plan and travel last minute, have very ridged schedules or work for an employer who feels it’s appropriate to cancel employees vacations last minute. Timeshare may not work well for you and it may be a mistake to double down. I do think, with the flexibility of the Hilton system, that you’ll be able to find enough value in the system that you won’t feel as bad about your purchase and will be able to make use of what you own, but it will take some work to learn and understand the system.

Just don’t go throwing good money after bad. There are a LOT of rip off artist out there who will tell you they can get you out of the co tract guaranteed or you get your money back. They’re liters and usually end up before a stress AG, get shut down, then pop up u see a different name somewhere else.


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Be careful, because I suspect that HGVC will only try to sell you more. They do this EVERY owners update.



I only assume as much. They already tried that with me. I’ll be cut and dry with them. I am going to frankly tell them we can’t afford it and will they buy it back per the “by back” as they have stated. Wish me luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PGRIF (Dec 31, 2022)

This may be a long shot but I am willing to give some of my points if not all for guidance in this matter for a phone call… 
Not whatsoever saying the written responses are not adequate! I am just at my wits end… 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alwysonvac (Dec 31, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> Hello all! I planned on responding on each and every one of these personally until I lost track. I can’t believe the comradely here! I don’t feel so helpless. Y’all are amazing! I appreciate each and every person who took the time to read this thread. Being a 28 yr old newlywed, my husband and I saw the stars… this was an extremely emotional (and intoxicated) decision we made. As of now HGV has been trying to contact me (phone tag because of holidays) I hope to talk to them next week. What we will discuss… I’m still unsure. I know the facts of the matter but still see I was deceived and we shouldn’t have been drinking. Either way I appreciate all the great advice! I will take all into account! After I speak to them I will let you know the positive negative or other response! Much love!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Happy you came back  

*IMPORTANT
2022 points will expire at December 31, 2022, at 11:59 p.m. ET unless you pay ($189) to bank them for another year!*
NOTE: Bonus points are typically good for two years. 









Step by step tutorial





						Hilton Grand Vacations - Manage My Points
					

Hilton Grand Vacations is committed to the idea that life is incomplete without vacations. Our distinctive resort collection features luxurious accommodations in renowned destinations with the quality service that is synonymous with the Hilton name.




					club.hiltongrandvacations.com


----------



## GT75 (Dec 31, 2022)

I was going to add to my post, but noticed that @dougp26364 said what I was going to say (but much than I would have said).    I will add that you also have bonus points from your purchase.     Let starts planning vacations with those.     We can help with that too.    But the way timeshares work is you must planning ahead and book to get the best availability.   In general, the club window opens 9-months (276-days), before check-out, so this is when you are going to find the best availability. 

I just saw that @alwysonvac posted about saving your 2022 points into 2023.    Since you haven’t used them, you must save them or you will loose them *TODAY*.

Edited to add:   You have 2560 pts (2022) to save into 2023.    But these points must be used in 2023.   What I would suggest is plan a big trip in 2023 to use all of your 2022 and 2023 pts (so at least 5120 pts or even more).    The reason is that it cost to save points but free to borrow points.    Then you also have those bonus points to use before they expire.


----------



## alwysonvac (Dec 31, 2022)

@GT75 I was thinking the same thing. They need to start working on their 2023 trip.
Maybe a one year anniversary trip to Hawaii or take advantage of the latest resort specials (depending on availability).  



_The 25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation is only valid for any new reservations booked from the time of receiving this offer through February 12th, 2023._
​_The discounts by resort are as follows:_
​_LAS VEGAS_​_Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_The Boulevard, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_HAWAII_​_Hokulani Waikiki, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_The Grand Islander, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_Grand Waikikian, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_The Bay Club, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_Kohala Suites, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_Kings' Land, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_Ocean Tower, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_SOUTH CAROLINA_​_Anderson Ocean Club, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_Ocean Enclave, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._
_NEW YORK_​_West 57th Street, a Hilton Club_​
_25% off HGV ClubPoints required to make a reservation from January 7, 2023, through May 12, 2023._


----------



## dayooper (Dec 31, 2022)

GTLINZ said:


> UPDATED:
> 
> The buildings are basically the same with the exception of number of floors.   I think the first 2 buildings are 5 floors, the last is 7 floors, and the rest are 6 floors. The bldg numbers are sequential and were built in order (1-7) so bldg 1 is the oldest. Building 1 starts by the main pool, buildings 4 and 5 face each other on the opposite end where the adult pool is and buildings 5-7 are across the lake but you can use the bridge.   We stayed in building 1 once and it was nice to be by the main pool but understandably noisy.
> 
> ...



Sounds like we might be requesting building 7. We don’t do sales tours and usually aren’t asked. Then again we have mainly gone to South Carolina resorts and they usually don’t ask resale only to go.


----------



## alwysonvac (Dec 31, 2022)

HGVC studios are like hotel rooms. They work well for singles and/or couples who don’t plan to spend much time in their room and/or don’t need the extra space.

Definitely take a look at the resort point charts and decide where you would like to go.
You can bank and borrow and stretch your points by planning your stay during lower demand weeks (Gold and Silver seasons). You can use open season rates for last minute travel when it’s cheaper than Hilton.com rates.
_NOTE: New point charts will come out on 1/1/2023. Open Season rates can change each year._

*FOR EXAMPLE *


----------



## andre10056 (Dec 31, 2022)

PGRIF said:


> In October of 2022 we signed for a HGVC in Las Vegas for Elara. The total cost was about $15,000 and we get 2560 points a year. Everything sounded good until we logged in and realized that 2560 points doesn't get you much of anything! Definitely not the "about 10 days" we were sold. Do I not know how to use the website or did we get completely ripped off? Either way we tried to get out of it and no one will return my phone call. The one woman I spoke to only tried to sell me more points. We need to get out of this! PLEASE HELP US!


The only thing I disagreed with (or the thing I most disagreed with) was the advice given to you to "forget an attorney, you're only going to throw good money after bad".

Ordinarily, I'd agree.  But let's face it.  You (and I believe 99% of all non-resale purchasers) have been defrauded.  What was alleged that you would be getting was a lie/were lies.  They likely glossed over that part about an annual maintenance fee as well.  When you've been defrauded, that's PRECISELY the domain of attorneys.  Moreover, everyone (certainly the average judge) knows full well about timeshare fraud.

However, if they ask for $2000, $3000 upfront to represent you, I'd agree that it's money that will LIKELY not be well spent.

But what if you don't spend a dime upfront?

So I did a search for "Nevada timeshare attorneys".  And came up with multiple "hits", including this one:






						Nevada Timeshare Lawyers - No Upfront Fees - A+ BBB Rating | The Law Offices of Kenneth H. Dramer, P.C.
					

Experienced Timeshare Lawyers. NO UPFRONT FEES. Cancel Your Timeshare or Don't Pay a Fee. You Have Nothing To Lose Except Your Timeshare. FREE CONSULTATIONS.



					dramerlaw.com
				




Only $1950 _if we succeed_?  _No upfront fees_?  I'd say it's worth a call.  If nothing else, your initial phone call will make you far more knowledgeable about what might possibly be done.

And that Dramer debt and collection specialist firm is only one of many.  I know nothing about them and am certainly not recommending anyone.  I leave it to you to do your due diligence and find one that might best work for you.


----------



## pedro47 (Dec 31, 2022)

New Years Resolution. Hilton please clean up this mess.


----------



## Talent312 (Dec 31, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Hilton please clean up this mess.


If HGVC had any interest in reigning in the deceptive practices of TS sales-weasels, they would have done so long before now.
-----------------------
Sorry, but HGVC can rely on a well-written contract, point to that, and say, "All representations to which we (and you) are bound is contained with the four corners of this document." The "parol evidence rule" excludes the use of prior  or contemporaneous inconsistent statements in disputes over contracts.






"Information leading up to or during a contract that is not included in writing is considered inadmissible evidence and is excluded from the jury. The jury will therefore only look at the writing within the document itself to decide a contract dispute." -- Source: Cornell Law School.
-------------------
Otherwise, nearly everyone would sue every merchant claiming they were told something.


----------



## heitmullerj02 (Dec 31, 2022)

_although the points are small, you could pull next years in ( 2024 into 2023) and combine the total to get a better stay which included a weekend. There is no fee with HGVC to pull the points forward just your trade fee, use it like an every other year property._


----------



## andre10056 (Dec 31, 2022)

Talent312 said:


> If HGVC had any interest in reigning in the deceptive practices of TS sales-weasels, they would have done so long before now.
> 
> -----------------------
> Sorry, but HGVC can rely on it's well-written contract, point to that, and say, all representations to which we (and you) are bound is contained with the four corners of this document. The "parol evidence rule" excludes the use of prior  or contemporaneous inconsistent statements.
> ...


----------



## andre10056 (Dec 31, 2022)

Let's not give out legal advice, shall we?  Especially since I assume few of us have taken even a single law school class.

The law is not the application of simplistic rules for robots.  There are apparently MANY exceptions to the parol evidence rule, the most notable of which apparently are:

From the cited website:

".......here is the list of the important exceptions under which evidence normally excluded by the parol evidence rule can be admitted:


To resolve ambiguities in the contract or to otherwise assist in interpreting a term of the contract
To show that a term in the contract is a mistake
To show that fraud, duress, unconscionable behavior, or tortious interference with contract occurred
To show that consideration was never paid
To identify the parties or subject matter of the contract
To modify the contract after its has been signed by all parties, if the contract explicitly allows for that"









						Exceptions to the parol evidence rule in contracts | Legal Blog
					

The parol evidence rule does exclude much evidence from contract disputes in court, but there are a large number of exceptions to the rule.




					legal.thomsonreuters.com
				




I suggest all timeshare owners take a look at #3.  I would assume that many (all?) judges would indeed admit (and would do so all day long) any evidence pertaining to "fraud, duress, unconscionable behavior", especially since "everybody" knows that fraud, duress, and unconscionable behavior are ALWAYS characteristics of developer/resort salesman timeshare sales.


----------



## andre10056 (Dec 31, 2022)

And yes, the parol evidence rule may often be applied.  The judge may say, "I see no reason to make any inquiry or do any other fact finding than what's in the "four corners of the contract"".

But let's take an extreme scenario.

Ten Catholic priests, ten Baptist ministers, ten Episcopalian ministers, ten Jewish rabbis, ten Muslim clerics, etc., etc. are all in the same room (perhaps a convention hall) and witness your being forced to sign a horrendously unfair contract at gunpoint.

Do you REALLY envision the judge, confronted with all these credible witnesses who are champing at the bit to testify, saying "the parol evidence rule always (100% of the time) applies and all I can do is look at the four corners of the contract"???!!!

Maybe, but there's a better than even chance that the "duress" part of Exception #3 may possibly perhaps maybe apply.


----------



## BingoBangoBongo (Dec 31, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> HGVC studios are like hotel rooms. They work well for singles and/or couples who don’t plan to spend much time in their room and/or don’t need the extra space.
> 
> Definitely take a look at the resort point charts and decide where you would like to go.
> You can bank and borrow and stretch your points by planning your stay during lower demand weeks (Gold and Silver seasons). You can use open season rates for last minute travel when it’s cheaper than Hilton.com rates.
> ...



I've got one 3BR and three studios booked at SeaWorld towards the end of January.  Some of the nights fall under the last promo and I am using 694 points for a 4 night booking (Mon-Thurs), 914 points for a 3 night booking (Weds-Fri) and 1280 points for another 3 night booking (Thurs -Sun).  That last booking includes a weekend night I don't need, but with the 3 night minimum it is the only way I could book rooms for my group.  All told I have 7 nights in a 3BR and 10 nights in Studios and using a total of 9688 points.  Using my MF rate of $.10/point that works out to be about $57/night.  I also pay for AI, so no reservation fees charged on these. YMMV.


----------



## GTLINZ (Jan 1, 2023)

PGRIF said:


> Is it really a great system though?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have always been treated well by the HGVC reps and also at the resorts.  You get used to the quality and to being treated like an owner (and yes, I bought resale).  I have planned and taken trips I likely would not have otherwise and believe it was cheaper in the long run than rack rates (and much better to have a kitchen, a lanai, etc). It was fun to plan trying out different HGVC locations. 

Most folks here would agree with HGVC being a good system.  Most would also agree that it is hard to understand how most on the sales staff can sleep at night selling you something of almost no resale value at a very inflated price (which is what they did to you).

So to your point, when you look at it as a whole, it is for sure not all great.


----------



## chapjim (Jan 1, 2023)

andre10056 said:


> And yes, the parol evidence rule may often be applied.  The judge may say, "I see no reason to make any inquiry or do any other fact finding than what's in the "four corners of the contract"".
> 
> But let's take an extreme scenario.
> 
> ...


Who will be OP's witnesses?  Your hypothetical is absurd.


----------



## andre10056 (Jan 1, 2023)

chapjim said:


> Who will be OP's witnesses?  Your hypothetical is absurd.



Obviously, I (in my yesterday 5:15 post) was responding to the post immediately before mine (the yesterday 5:05 post) in which the poster implied that, in all circumstances, the parol evidence rule applies.  All judges are allegedly bound by this rule, according to such poster, and can NEVER consider anything but the "four corners of the contract".

Hence, to illustrate that the poster might be incorrect about that, and that there are MANY exceptions to the parol evdidence rule, I came up with the admittedly extreme, comical, and unrealistic hypothetical.  Clearly, all judges can decide for themselves if "all" they're going to consider are the "four corners of the contract" under all of the circumstances....or perhaps consider things outside of those four corners.

The OP should know (as I pointed out in that same yesterday 5:15 post), that FRAUD, DURESS, OR UNCONSCIONABLE BEHAVIOR (which we all know are hallmarks of resort salesman timeshare sales) CAN indeed be considered by a judge, and likely WILL be.

Please refrain from confronting anyone for allegedly posting "absurdity" unless you understand the obvious context.  Maybe read the prior post(s) to be able to recognize such context.


----------



## chapjim (Jan 1, 2023)

andre10056 said:


> Obviously, I (in my yesterday 5:15 post) was responding to the post immediately before mine (the yesterday 5:05 post) in which the poster implied that, in all circumstances, the parol evidence rule applies.  All judges are allegedly bound by this rule, according to such poster, and can NEVER consider anything but the "four corners of the contract".
> 
> Hence, to illustrate that the poster might be incorrect about that, and that there are MANY exceptions to the parol evdidence rule, I came up with the admittedly extreme, comical, and unrealistic hypothetical.  Clearly, all judges can decide for themselves if "all" they're going to consider are the "four corners of the contract" under all of the circumstances....or perhaps consider things outside of those four corners.
> 
> ...


. . . can be considered if there is evidence of it.

I was never taught that the parol evidence rule was anything but a good starting point in the analysis. Very often the ending as well.

I doubt that in the history of contract litigation against timeshare companies, there has ever been a judgment for the plaintiff when the plaintiff had nothing more than a bare allegation of fraud, duress, or unconscionable conduct.  The judge will look at the terms of the contract that the plaintiff signed agreeing that no promises were made other than those in the contract.  Unless the plaintiff recorded the session or has a witness, not party to the contract, who was present, it will be judgment for the defense.  Plaintiff to pay costs and defendant's legal fees.


----------



## andre10056 (Jan 1, 2023)

chapjim said:


> . . . can be considered if there is evidence of it.
> 
> I was never taught that the parol evidence rule was anything but a good starting point in the analysis. Very often the ending as well.
> 
> I doubt that in the history of contract litigation against timeshare companies, there has ever been a judgment for the plaintiff when the plaintiff had nothing more than a bare allegation of fraud, duress, or unconscionable conduct.  The judge will look at the terms of the contract that the plaintiff signed agreeing that no promises were made other than those in the contract.  Unless the plaintiff recorded the session or has a witness, not party to the contract, who was present, it will be judgment for the defense.  Plaintiff to pay costs and defendant's legal fees.


You're already presupposing that a defrauded timeshare purchaser "had nothing more than a bare allegation of fraud, duress, or unconscionable conduct".

What if he and his wife and two of his friends were watching/listening to the presentation?

What if he sent an email to his adult son reviewing all the "wonderful" characteristics of what he was told moments after the presentation/purchase?

What if he had in his possession the written notes the timeshare salesperson (i.e., the crook) wrote during the presentation as the crook tried to convince the prospective purchaser to buy?

What if he brought in as a witness another timeshare sales presentee (maybe even a person who just wanted discount coupons but did not buy...maybe someone the defrauded party met and befriended while at the resort) who testified that the salesperson had told him exactly those same untrue things?

What if the judge applies the principal of "res ipsa loquitur" ("the thing speaks for itself") when he sees how little the timeshare purchaser got for an enormous amount of money?

And what if the judge, already well aware of how evil timeshare sales people might be, simply believes the defrauded timeshare purchaser?  Isn't that what a trial is all about?  A fact finder being able to listen to and see whomever testifies and come to his/her own conclusions about whom to believe?

Why are you so intent in telling the OP,  "Too bad.  You're f'ed.  Forget about even talking to an attorney who may offer (1) a free consultation and (2) offer no upfront fees and (3) a $1950 fee only if they're successful because you've got absolutely no chance"?

Perhaps you were defrauded and misery loves company.  Hence, your advising others there's nothing you can do.


----------



## GT75 (Jan 1, 2023)

Thread locked.


----------

