# [2008] Belaire Golf Resort and Spa



## PuertoVallartaGirl

If you have just found this thread and are searching for information about this resort, you may want to look at page 25 of this thread, post #606 for an up-to-date report on a timeshare presentation done August 24, 2009.



Info to Newbies. 

I am a guest here but I worked one week in November 2007 at the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa.  If you are offered a crazy deal at the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa. Don't believe it.

I was supposed to take the place of Dorota as a Legal Verification Officer. I was told they were going to fire her because she was scaring the customers.

My first day a bird pooped on my head and I knew it was a sign that something was wrong.

But the main thing I want to say is .. when I was working there I would see them proposing these 130k deals and then when it was rejected come back and sell 2 weeks a year for 10 years extendable for 100 years for only 100 dollars a year. These deals would be sold for like 6k or 10k.

 I made a big deal to say to Carlos, Guido (or what ever the brothers name is of the owner) and even Antonio (the owner) that this deal would lose them money. Finally after a lot of questions from me, they said to me very clearly, the people with those deals will never stay at the Belaire. "Basically they just bought themselves a vacation club membership and we will make sure that they NEVER get in to Belaire. " It is refered to as an Exit. And they call it "recovering their marketing money". And they do so quite openly.

I said I thought it was wrong, and I also said I would not be able to slide the truth as good as Dorota. I am an extremely honest person and just couldn't do it. So... I got fired. 

As for Profeco... one of the sales people also told me that now days you can get your money back AFTER the 5 day recision period. I had told him I bought Velas Vallarta.  He acknowledged it was basically a waste of money.  He also told me even though it had been 3 months since I bought, nowdays I could probably get my money back partially if not all. (though I did not do it) 

As far as construction. As in other posts here about Belaire, nothing has changed since November 2007, since I worked there. They moved some equipment around and fixed their fence up a bit because it really looked deserted when I worked there. Even if their website shows a full building it is just a computer composite, nextdoor to the the model's it is just a dirt lot. 

As far as the beach club, I was told they were negotiating a deal to use some beachfront property but the golf course actually is not part of Belaire at all. That is what I was told.  

I thought it was hilarious when one poster posted that the owner, claimed to be worth millions but was also the same person that sold them a unit at the Mayan several years ago.

When I worked there I knew deep down that if they hadn't fired me I would have had to quit, it really seemed like a scam even from a new person working there. 

Sincerely, PuertoVallartaGirl


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## aliikai2

*Thanks*

for being brave enough to post your first hand experiences .

 We may have seen each other as my wife and I toured in early November. 

Greg


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## brucecz

Was Marcos still working there when you were working there?
We toured last September and recinded for the various reasons outlined  in our posts in the first two strings. Your post starts the 4th Belaire string.

Your Qoute "As far as construction. As in other posts here about Belaire, nothing has changed since November 2007, since I worked there. They moved some equipment around and fixed their fence up a bit because it really looked deserted when I worked there. Even if their website shows a full building it is just a computer composite, nextdoor to the the model's it is just a dirt lot. " Unquote

I find it very interesting that it seems you are saying the pictures of the construction at the Belaire are seemingly not correct,  and you say it is a just a computor compositive?  If so then I am even more concerned for the people who did not recind in time.

Or are the pictures on the "Belaire Contrction" string http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68338 and put on postings 8 and 9 correct?


I wonder if any Tugger that a lot of us know and respect will be in PV very soon and be able to post pictures of the Belaire property when they get back. 


Bruce


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## pammex

I posted pics in Feb or March and will be back there in PV in July, that is the soonest I can do it................

Hopefully someone else can go sooner....the most recent photos are quite different from mine.


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## brucecz

pammex said:


> I posted pics in Feb or March and will be back there in PV in July, that is the soonest I can do it................
> 
> Hopefully someone else can go sooner....the most recent photos are quite different from mine.



I just checked back on the string and have noticed that one of the newer posters said they will be returning on April 20, 2008 and will try to post more pictures.

Bruce


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## pammex

No another one of the newbie posters who rave about how wonderful it is, and how much is being done etc.....they kind of make me leary!


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## judy23

there is a live utube video of the complete construction site. Looks real to me.It was on there web-cam site


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## Dutch43

*Belaire*

Go to www.belairevacationclub.com and hit Press and News and you can watch real time construction on the web cam all day if you want.

Ed


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## Archie583

*Belaire Construction*

April 17, 2008  I just got back from my last visit to Belaire.  Construction continues to go on at full speed and I took a few more pictures.  My wife and I will leave PV Sunday, April 20.  I will attempt to post pictures early next week.
I have the following questions to any TUG member who can help me.
1. How do I go about posting pictures on TUG?

2. Is their a limit on how many pictures I can post?

If any Belaire owner is in PV drop by and see the construction and keep us up to date.  The web cam does not really capture the scope of the construction.

Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.

I just visited the Belaire Vacation Club web site and they have great photos and videos of the construction.  I will continue to post my photos when I get home as they are the most recent available at this time.

Henry Piche
Flushing, Michigan


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## Dave M

The easiest way is to post your pictures in an online photo album on the Internet and simply provide a link to that album in a post here. 

If you wish to post the acutul photos here, see this How to post pictures thread and the link therein.

There is no limit to the number of pictures that you can post within a particular thread. However, please recognize that the more space you take up with pictures, the more difficult it becomes for people to wade through the pictures and read text.


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## PuertoVallartaGirl

*construction*

Well, regardless of the construction or not, There is a clear message in my note about the 10k and under deals.  They told me that that was for the pure pupose of recovering their marketing monies.  

In all serious I do hope that everything does work out on the up and up for the people that bought the big packages.  

I just wanted to share my experience because I´ve been worried about people who bought and I personally haven´t seen enouch construction activity to make it seem real to me. 

Best wishes.


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## Archie583

*Belaire Construction*

I upload 14 pictures on Belaire Construction on PhotoBucket.com under the name of Joyce583.  Can anybody help me regarding how I create a link from Tug2 to PhotoBucket?
Thank you for any help you may give.


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## steve_esko

*Belaire Construction*

I think all you need to do is go to your link  

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/joyce583/


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## Karen G

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Can anybody help me regarding how I create a link from Tug2 to PhotoBucket?


See post #19 in this thread.


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## Archie583

*Belaire Construction*

Thanks Steve for your help! Your link works fine as and folks can click on it to get to my pictures.

  As far as I can determine work seems to be on track and let us hope this continues until the project is finished.
If anbody is an owner and happen to be in PV please drop by the Belaire, see whats happening and keep us informed.

Henry and Joyce Piche
Flushing, Michigan


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## steve_esko

*Belaire Construction*

Henry/Joyce

Thank you for the pictures.
I am an owner at Belaire & I have to admit I feel a little better then I did a few months ago.

Steve


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## pammex

Well, I truly hope this is a good sign, but I must honestly IMHO, after looking at those pics and relloking at those pics, the only difference I see from two months ago when I was there is an extension of a retaining wall which does not take 2 months and lots and lots of Rebar and bags of well who knows cement, sand etc.  I also see a square foundation area, full of brown water or such, what is that?  Then I see a crew of much more when I was there but certainly not enough for a project this size, maybe the others were on comida, but each pictures shows them staring or touching the rebar but doing nothing with it.....Guess it looks better than 2 months ago, but I would feel I was in clear yet if I was an owner.  Let's see what the next poster shows for pics on their next visit.  Oh yeah there is also a permit sign on the fence that is new did they not have that before?  

I certainly am not trying to be negative but I have built a home of 5000 sq. feet in Mexico and well my crew did not stand around looking at rebar like they had no clue what it was etc. they got to it, used it put it up, laid it down.   

Oh I hope the next pictures are more promising.  There is also still the issue of the article, now I forget the number but the one that states the owners have nothing or such if such and such, I believe brucecz, stated it many times.  This could be built and sold in other words and no one owns anything.  This is just such a quandrum.  It is really too bad it is not a more positive experience as the nonfunctioning units were incredible.  

I would advise neutrality onthis until more is displayed.  Sorry, I really wanted to be thrilled with the pics but they were more than disappointing for over 2 months, especially since we had heard while we were in PV over 2 months ago that work was starting that week..hmm.


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## steve_esko

I’m not comparing these 2 projects as they are totally different and the weather in Minnesota adds an element that isn’t a factor in Mexico.  But the below article shows how long it takes when undertaking a large construction project.  Sometimes it seems like there is no progress taking place when the pile driving and concrete work is taking place as you don’t see any noticeable changes.  All of the forming of the rebar is done on site by hand.  There is a A LOT more rebar being used when forming the many massive pilings compared to a residential home.  

*Thursday, Aug. 30, 2007, will forever be remembered as the day outdoor Major League Baseball returned to Minnesota and Twins Territory, as the Twins officially broke ground at the new ballpark site in Minneapolis. 

It took over a decade for the Twins to get a new outdoor ballpark approved, but on Thursday night, the first round of shovels finally dug into the ground as part of the official groundbreaking ceremony at the site of the ballpark set to open in 2010. 

In addition to the ceremony, guests enjoyed a concert by Martin Zellar, autographs from Twins alumni, and one of the beautiful late-summer days that the new ballpark will allow Twins fans and players to experience just two seasons from now.  A March-April 2010 completion is scheduled.*

I agree that the timeframe promised was unrealistic (hindsight) and it would have been better had they been more upfront from the beginning.

I look forward to outdoor baseball returning to the Twins   
and hopefully a completed Belaire Resort


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## Dutch43

*Belaire Construction*

Thanks Henry/Joyce

Your pictures are appreciated. It has been great to watch the progress daily on the web cam. Talked to them in PV yesterday and they are on schedule with the footings so they can get them done before the rainy season starts.
Looking forward to meeting you someday in PV.

Ed and Phyllis Van Rossum


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## pammex

I am well aware of by hand work in Mexico and well aware of rebar etc.  I am also more than aware of weather conditons and such in Mexico, land and all.  My home was done by a crew of 12 cut down in the end, all hand labor, lots and lots of rebar, hand mixing of cement, the whole gamut.  

I am also well aware of how quickly usually a resort or mall etc are built in Mexico, and usually much less hand labor, they do have machines here.  

I just cannot see the delays, nor anything in the pics which showed a lot of work had been done...I would like to see when the supplies have actually been put to use.  They are on schedule with the footings the next poster says but yet I see nothing dug....that is strange.  Usually homes and projects are built to California code due to earthquake and natural disaster threats.  They better stop staring at the rebar and get moving or the foundation with the rebar in and welded together will not be done before rainy season.  

I sure hope they pull this off as I said before there are many excited buyers who have waited a long time and well the model units though non functioning are just incredible....unfortunately for me I think it is going to be a I'll believe it when I see it!  I do have my fingers crossed though.


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## pammex

Oh Steve I forgot to mention there is certainly not enough rebar in those photos for a project such as this, so hope that is just a beginning delivery.  More rebar was used in the back portion of my home and pool than there is there on site.  

I guess my problem is I do not see the supplies in use......and was told over two months ago the foundation and piling were to begin and the equipment /machine is there, so why aren't they done or started.  Or is there another delay.  Where are the people who were supposed to have units to use this year exchanging into, every exchange company I am familiar with has stated they do not do business with projects that do not have units  available.  

I'll keep watching as even though every poster is a guest  which is very odd...this must be for real and going to happen, what it pity if it did not cause the concept, building, units in model are wonderful.


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## Dutch43

There are 24 footings being poured and they currently are on #16. If you go to the website, you can see the progress in real time on the webcam. You'll see truckloads of rebar being brought in as well as trucks of all kinds being unloaded. Currently there are 3 rebar cages on site and it looks like one will dropped into a hole today. 

Ed


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## jschmidt

Mr. 43

Please advise current status of Belaire's famous empty water bottle.

Thanks.


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## Mule

[_Message deleted for failing to follow the "Be Courteous" posting rule. Please carefully read the rules before posting again in this thread. _ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## california-bighorn

[_Message deleted for failing to follow the "Be Courteous" posting rule. Please carefully read the rules before posting again in this thread. _ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## steve_esko

Hopefully Belaire's famous empty water bottle has been refilled


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## wind

*Keeping the faith*

We are still hoping for more results as we have to send in our balance
due this week. We are glad to see some progress since being in Puerto
Vallarta in March.
I am a realtor, so I have read our contract over for the 5th time and
have not found the article Bruce keeps referring to. Please watch the
spelling by the way...
I think the contracts have been changed. Mine reads ..." 5.2 EXTRAORDINARY FEES Any payment of money incurred for unforeseeable events during normal operation and maintenance of the properties or the establishment considerd as urgent, necessary or essential for total and partial upkeep thereof: and common areas, facilities, equipment and services, for the upkeep or replacement of furniture or equipment , or which if not applied the establishment or part of it are at risk of being lost, destroyed or damaged in such a way that the function they were created, constructed or intended for cannot be fulfilled."
Check your contracts. I assume they are tweaked now and then as we found several errors in spelling and typos which we brought to their attention.
Other owners, let me know, do you get your members number after you pay
the total amount due? I only have a contract number and a reference number.
Wind
Wilmington, NC
ps. I didn't join tugs because this is not my life.


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## california-bighorn

Wind
Since you are in the Real Estate business, I would think you would be a great source of information for other TUG members and observers of the TUG BBS. You might be able to decifer certain areas of the contract where other members are having the problem. Bruce probably appreciates your concern.
I think I would be concerned that you found so many typos and errors in spelling in their contract. Doesn't seem to professional.


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## pammex

wind, you have location Mass listed but then sign wind N.C.  

I am sure this site is not a lot of others people lives either but the money they invested could be a big part of their lives so of course they are concerned over the extremely long delays...

No typos are not very professional but I have to say that I do see them many times in Mexico on contracts in English, should not be so but have seen it...

The water bottle I hope has been refilled many times, like many times a day LOL

So sounds positive they are working on the rebar, and truckloads of supplies coming in...that si great .  Any projection for completion?  

Any answers where current owners are excahnging into this year?  

I have my fingers crossed.  Will try to check out that web cam...

Bueana Suerte to all!


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## TROOPER08

*Belaire Resort*



wind said:


> We are still hoping for more results as we have to send in our balance
> due this week. We are glad to see some progress since being in Puerto
> Vallarta in March.
> I am a realtor, so I have read our contract over for the 5th time and
> have not found the article Bruce keeps referring to. Please watch the
> spelling by the way...
> I think the contracts have been changed. Mine reads ..." 5.2 EXTRAORDINARY FEES Any payment of money incurred for unforeseeable events during normal operation and maintenance of the properties or the establishment considerd as urgent, necessary or essential for total and partial upkeep thereof: and common areas, facilities, equipment and services, for the upkeep or replacement of furniture or equipment , or which if not applied the establishment or part of it are at risk of being lost, destroyed or damaged in such a way that the function they were created, constructed or intended for cannot be fulfilled."
> Check your contracts. I assume they are tweaked now and then as we found several errors in spelling and typos which we brought to their attention.
> Other owners, let me know, do you get your members number after you pay
> the total amount due? I only have a contract number and a reference number.
> Wind
> Wilmington, NC
> ps. I didn't join tugs because this is not my life.



Would any Tugg member care to translate this latest 5.2 clause...I cannot make heads or tails of it.   I too am on the hook at this resort and hopefully will get all that they promised.  Thanks to all who took the pictures and the updates.  Any info we can get is usefull


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## wind

I'm back on this blog and just want to clarify that we own homes in NC and MA and PA. So we travel between states a lot. 
Right now in MA... we did receive a call from Tony last week to verify the
construction update "that all 26 pilings are in". He also gave us the new
contact for exchange and concierge services. He also said he purchased a boutique high quality resort in Los Cabos for owners to use next year.
I asked them to clarify sec. 5.2... which is basically saying that they will 
make repairs at their cost not passed down to the owners. Other places in the contract say that the users will be responsible for intentional damage.
We asked Tony to reiterate that this is not a time share but fractional ownership. Any thoughts on this? (owners perferably)
still hopeful Wind


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## Archie583

*Belaire Construction*

Thank you WIND for the update.  All the news I received in the past few weeks has been very positive.  Keep up the good work. 
We purchased our one bedroom unit under the assumption that it is fractional ownership;
Joyce & Henry


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## lrk

*belaire vacation club*

My husband and I were in PV in April and wound up buying into a timeshare at Belaire Vacation Club - we decided to rescind the next day and were bullied a bit but finally got a letter of rescission. We were to get the money refunded w/i 15 business days - it is now over a month - they do not respond to our emails or calls. Luckily the "deposit" was put on a credit card and the credit card company has filed a dispute and will take care of it for us. I think they are crooks. I met someone who knows Antonio (owner)'s
in laws in California and I understand he has had lots of legal problems here and is not likely to return to the states any time soon - what does that tell you. I feel sorry for those who are stuck.


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## JoeG9100

*Belaire Golf & Spa*

Hi,
We just returned from PV On Friday. We bought at Belaire on Wed. and were so happy, every one was so nice. It seemed much better than the The Regina presentation. I found the TUG site yesterday after we got home and now know it could be a scam. We did not see any real construction going on Wed or when we went back on Thursday. They told us that Idom was doing the construction but it looks like they are doing all the subcontracting them selfs. 
I am back in Texas and am wondering how hard this will be to rescind. We are within the 5 days still. Anybody has done this form the US ? I can e-Mail and will send a notarized  letter tomorrow.
Thanks for any advise.

JoeG9100


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## Karen G

JoeG9100 said:


> Hi,
> We are within the 5 days still. Anybody has done this form the US ? I can e-Mail and will send a notarized  letter tomorrow.
> Thanks for any advise.
> 
> JoeG9100


Welcome to TUG, Joe.  So glad you found us while you're still in your 5-day rescission period.  By all means, send a certified letter (so that you'll have a record of it being sent). I doubt it needs to be notarized unless your contract with Belaire mentions that step.  If you paid a down payment with a credit card, notify your credit card company and do whatever they require to dispute the charges.

Follow whatever instructions about rescission you can find in your contract.

Go back to the main page for this Mexico forum and look at the sticky post on the top that refers to knowing your rights at a Mexican timeshare presentation and read the posts there if you haven't already.  You might want to look up Profeco, a consumer help agency in Mexico. You would want to also contact them if Belaire gives you any problems with rescinding.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress with rescinding.  You've come to the right place to learn all about timeshares.


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## JoeG9100

Thank you KarenG I am Glad to be here. The only thing out of the ordinary in the contract about resignation is that they specify that we sing at their address. Of course that won't be possible but I am not sure that is enforceable since Proteco says all that is needed is a letter. Did anyone else get something like that in their contract?

Thanks JoeG9100


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## JoeG9100

*Belaire Email address*

HI again I can't seem to get an e_mail to Belaire so I can cancel my contract. Does anyone have an E-Mail address thet works?

memberservices@belairevacationclub.com  it bounces

is thier address real ??
Albatros 420 Marina Vallarta
Puerto Vallarta Jal, Mexico, 48354

I will send mail to this address.

Thanks,

JoeG9100


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## Karen G

JoeG9100 said:


> HI again I can't seem to get an e_mail to Belaire so I can cancel my contract.


I wouldn't be too concerned about canceling via email. Just send the certified letter and be sure to keep a copy along with the proof of mailing. Do it today so that you're within the specified time limit for rescission.

Did you pay anything by credit card?  If so, be sure to notify your credit card company and dispute the charge.


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## brucecz

JoeG9100 said:


> HI again I can't seem to get an e_mail to Belaire so I can cancel my contract. Does anyone have an E-Mail address thet works?
> 
> memberservices@belairevacationclub.com  it bounces
> 
> is thier address real ??
> Albatros 420 Marina Vallarta
> Puerto Vallarta Jal, Mexico, 48354
> 
> I will send mail to this address.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JoeG9100



Joe, a email will not do to protect your legal rights.

To legally recind send copies to both Profeco and the Bellaire by Certified mail that requires a signature and keep other copies for yourself and the tracking reciept for proof.  

Let  both Profeco and the Bellaire know you have sent copies to each. Make sure you recind in the proper legal on all of the paperwork as Karen G said.

If you put your down payment on your charge card start the dispute process and let them know that you are still in the legal recind process.

If you paid by check call your banker explain the problem and try and stop payment on the check.

Good luck

Bruce


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## brucecz

Karen G said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned about canceling via email. Just send the certified letter and be sure to keep a copy along with the proof of mailing. Do it today so that you're within the specified time limit for rescission.
> 
> Did you pay anything by credit card?  If so, be sure to notify your credit card company and dispute the charge.



I wonder how many seconds before I did that  you posted almost the same thing I did at 9:02 AM?  

I am sure that I am a slower typer than you.

Bruce


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## Karen G

brucecz said:


> I wonder how many seconds before I did that  you posted almost the same thing I did at 9:02 AM?
> 
> I am sure that I am a slower typer than you.
> 
> Bruce


Hi, Bruce. Great minds think alike!


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## brucecz

Karen G said:


> Hi, Bruce. Great minds think alike!



I was thinking of posting that, but I did not want to  offend you.

Bruce


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## Blondie

Wow, a Belaire email address that does not work-shocking


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## JoeG9100

*Belair cancellation*

Hi all,

Here is what we did today for our Belaire cancellation.
I did get the E-mail off finally. Then we took the letter had our bank notarize it then went to the post office and mailed it FED EX to member services at their address . We have a record of the letter and of our sending it. I did not think of sending one to Profeco. I can still do that if we need to. I have 2 days left
we only put a small amount on the CC  we did something more stupid, we let them open instant credit for about 8K the rest went on the card. I believe they opened a RCI CC for that.

They will call us tomorrow to see what is wrong My wife sent them a mail outlining why I guess they want to discuss it. She laid into them. TUG was mentioned too. One reason was we were told IDOM was doing the construction this is not true, it is not on their website and there is a reference on TUG somebody e-Mailed them and got a response. 
But the bottom line here is, they pored the piles over a month ago. They should have many workers doing the utility work and framing the foundation. Instead they went back to what you all have been discussing all along a few workers moving some dirt around. We saw it ourselves last week.  Thanks and I will keep you posted.

Joeg9100


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## brucecz

IMHO send copies to Profeco asap  so if needed they will have the information in a timely manner and have proof that you have recinded in a proper and timely manner.

Good Luck.


Bruce


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## JoeG9100

*Belaire*

OK, should I start the complaint process ? Is that how to do it? I can send it tomorrow.


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## brucecz

Just send them what you can document that you have recinded.

Bruce


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## JoeG9100

*Belaire*

We will scan docs. and E-mail to Profeco and then send docs by mail. They will have the case by today.

Joe


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## chacha

*Just Received an Invite In Mail for Belaire*

I just received an invite to the PV Belaire Golf Rersort and Spa.  The deal seemed unbelievable and needed to be completed by 10/31/2008.  Basically it was 6 nts oceanfront suite, ground transport, spa treatments for 2, 2 rounds of golf at PGA, cruise for 2, dinner for 2, and breakfast for 2 for $299.  We received 2 addtional coupons for this deal to share with friends.  

I decided to research the place and found all of these threads on TUG.  My boyfriend is in construction and saw the pics posted on their website from April.  We read the postings about 16 of the 24 footings being completed.  We were VERY skeptical regarding a date that would allow the resort to be open and travel completed by 10/31/2008.  In our estimation under perfect conditions, easily 12 months on an express schedule, and 2 years or more with complications.  So March of 2009 as some wrote were the dates given to them seems only very slightly feasible.

Back to the offer...after trying to figure out the travel completed by 10/31/2008 in the invite, we read the fine print on the offer after all of this and saw that they "reserve the right to accomodate you at another fine resort here in Puerto Vallarta".  There is a 72 hour pre-arrival cancellation w/full refund.  So....did anyone visit under this invite and what resort did they put you in?  Is $299 too good to be true or should we take advantage of this inexpensive vacation?


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## fidji

*the naked truth*



JoeG9100 said:


> OK, should I start the complaint process ? Is that how to do it? I can send it tomorrow.




hi i am a new user here i might get flamed but thats ok i was reading the posts about this belair scam and i am willing to give you guys a insight what really is going on

first i am a independent from belair or any asociation with thoose guys my purpose on writing this post is to keep bad sheeps out of the market

i am working and living in puerto vallarta in the timeshare industry and beacuse of resorts like belair the vacation ownership industry gets a bad name which i cannot stand beacuse they are good developments in mexico or vallarta who will respect your deal and what ever they promisse to you, BELIAR is not one of them and here are some tips how you can spot it

1 they contract is not registered with the profeco office which stand for protecion federal de consumidor is like the consumer protection here neither are they registered with any timeshare asociastion here in puerto vallarta that is the reason that you dont see any opcs promoters from them on the street, they modus of operandi is to pirate the customers from others resorts who are legal and have opcs on the street thoose opcs would sell they mother for 20bucks so if they see a good couple who plays golf ,in there 50s jewelery fancy clothes they aproche them and offer them a lot of money or gifts to come they are called in timeshare jargon a goldball, so belair only specializes in thoose kind of prospects they pay 3 times more for a qualified couple then any other timeshare resort in vallarta why? bc they dont have any marketing cost so they figure we get 5 prospects a day all qualified job,credit cards,age, and we lie the hell to them 20% of the peopel get gready and sign up for they awsome return on investment pitch let me get this straight to you guys from a professional in that industry if you buy a timeshare to rent it out and make huge amount of money you must be a 12 year old naive boy to beleive that kinda nonsens pitch so i hope you get the point here IF A DEAL IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE ITS PROBAPLY A SCAM 99% of the time

for all who have invested in that company i would suggest you that you go down there and ask for your money i dont know how much profeco could help you since they are not registered , the so called owners had never plans to build any hotel there this is called a hit and run operation guys they will try to lie and sell as many peopel they can with all they promisses and they fake contract who is not more worth then the paper what is it writien on until s...t hits the fan to many complains from members who dont get there weeks beacuse there is no inventory to sell yet nothing is builded and it wont i had an offer once to go and work there after being 18years in that industry i know what is right and what is wrong and after reading therre contract and all thoose unrealistic writen promises such as if you come back and we cant provide you with a room we will put you up in the marriott and so on ,and no maintnance fees pitch guys a timeshare resort cannot funcion without m.fees period so i decided not to work for thoose crooks and all those posts i read proved me right , i can tell you one thing only at the company i work customers get what they buy beacuse they buy fixed time which is asigned to each memeber for his week so there is no bs with red floating weeks which means that a resort can oversell any amount of weeks without having to controll a inventory per room or asign specifiec weeks to members so if you buy in a red floating week resort guess what ,when you call up to reserve and it is not september or may you might hear the words NOT AVALIBLE sounds familiar? so please dont blame it on the industrie of vacation ownership ,i suggest before you buy anything what is new for you make a research first and dont sign on the first day a good deal is still tomorrow a good deal ,

and for all belair owners belair is having a big personal turnover on a weekly base do you know why??? beacuse they treat the managers and sales rep or any employ as a memeber they dont get paid and have to fight for there money ,i know of one closer from here who beat mr antonio the selfnamed owner a black eye for not payng his comission and he was going with sunglases to close the tables with clients so you tell me if a serious company would do that 

STAY AWAY FROM BELAIR ITS A TOTAL SCAM 

i hope this clarifies everything to all memebers who still have a hope to be able to check in or ecxhange it with sfx or regsitry collection this is all bogus sorry to be so honest but i felt like its my obligation to share that piece of truth with all the concorned memebers here

please excuse my english it is not my first language

i am propably the only new user who dont write a fancy nice report about thosoe guys i noticed that too every new user trys to promote belair please dont fall for it 

the profeco office is located i block away from sams club and wall amrt across the meat market so good lcuk to all off you getting yoiur money back

fidji


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## fidji

the 5 days dont matter profeco has canceled contracts dating 1 year back
they rpotect the customer and no resort likes to be flaged by profeco
gl


JoeG9100 said:


> Hi,
> We just returned from PV On Friday. We bought at Belaire on Wed. and were so happy, every one was so nice. It seemed much better than the The Regina presentation. I found the TUG site yesterday after we got home and now know it could be a scam. We did not see any real construction going on Wed or when we went back on Thursday. They told us that Idom was doing the construction but it looks like they are doing all the subcontracting them selfs.
> I am back in Texas and am wondering how hard this will be to rescind. We are within the 5 days still. Anybody has done this form the US ? I can e-Mail and will send a notarized  letter tomorrow.
> Thanks for any advise.
> 
> JoeG9100


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## fidji

looks liek you talking about an exit programm
a exit programm does not have any inventory they are mostly travel clubs who offer weeks from 399 to 900 us if they are free and the location you want and yes its true a exit programm cost 200us and you can give as much weeks you like and the money goes into marketing but what marketing has belair??? lol. i am happy to see that others are also concerned about the customers keep it up pvgirl 




PuertoVallartaGirl said:


> Well, regardless of the construction or not, There is a clear message in my note about the 10k and under deals.  They told me that that was for the pure pupose of recovering their marketing monies.
> 
> In all serious I do hope that everything does work out on the up and up for the people that bought the big packages.
> 
> I just wanted to share my experience because I´ve been worried about people who bought and I personally haven´t seen enouch construction activity to make it seem real to me.
> 
> Best wishes.


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## fidji

did you get a property title issued with your fraction specified in it and registered with the bank and the mexican goverment? i doubt it its a scam guys please wake up its not even a timeshare 





jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Thank you WIND for the update.  All the news I received in the past few weeks has been very positive.  Keep up the good work.
> We purchased our one bedroom unit under the assumption that it is fractional ownership;
> Joyce & Henry


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## fidji

that is just a marketing trick called fly and buy programm to get cheaper prospect to the sales room because you have to attent a sales presentation and beleive me this will be a very high pressure sale if you are on there time
stay away buy a package deal with no presentation included youl enjoy it more
good luck




chacha said:


> I just received an invite to the PV Belaire Golf Rersort and Spa.  The deal seemed unbelievable and needed to be completed by 10/31/2008.  Basically it was 6 nts oceanfront suite, ground transport, spa treatments for 2, 2 rounds of golf at PGA, cruise for 2, dinner for 2, and breakfast for 2 for $299.  We received 2 addtional coupons for this deal to share with friends.
> 
> I decided to research the place and found all of these threads on TUG.  My boyfriend is in construction and saw the pics posted on their website from April.  We read the postings about 16 of the 24 footings being completed.  We were VERY skeptical regarding a date that would allow the resort to be open and travel completed by 10/31/2008.  In our estimation under perfect conditions, easily 12 months on an express schedule, and 2 years or more with complications.  So March of 2009 as some wrote were the dates given to them seems only very slightly feasible.
> 
> Back to the offer...after trying to figure out the travel completed by 10/31/2008 in the invite, we read the fine print on the offer after all of this and saw that they "reserve the right to accomodate you at another fine resort here in Puerto Vallarta".  There is a 72 hour pre-arrival cancellation w/full refund.  So....did anyone visit under this invite and what resort did they put you in?  Is $299 too good to be true or should we take advantage of this inexpensive vacation?


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## Dave M

I find it amusing that the video-cam linked here over two months ago (April 17) apparently no longer exists and the most recent photos on the "real time" construction site are dated back in early April. 

Whether it's a scam or not, I can't judge. But the purported ongoing construction, touted on this BBS for many months, doesn't seem to exist.


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## Mule

Please do not believe everything that people write, they seem to be mistaken.
First, Mr. Fidji is a competitor and not too informed or does'nt want to tell the whole truth.  There are dozens of resorts that are not members of the time share assoc. in PV.  The assoc. is like the mafia  its owned by the mega resorts and they make all the rules.  There is no reason for a small resort to be a member.  Second, the assoc. ownes the opc's.  So any resort that is not a member does not have opc's.  Third, Perfecto is federal gov. thus everyone is a member or you cannot sell anything in Mexico.  Fourth, there are approx. 48 commercial projects in th PV area and many have been on hold because material is hard to get.  Fifth, I have watch every pier set into the ground on the web cam on a daily basis.  It is current and working on Belaire's web site.  Im sure that the sales tactics at the Belaire and many of the time share resorts is far from honest.  However this does not mean that they do not intend to build.


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## PamF

If there is actual construction going on there, how come the same back hoe has been in the same spot for over a week now?  I feel for the people who have purchased as this sure is looking like a scam.

The "current" pictures are all from April.  That was months ago and they should actually have something to show for all this work.


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## Mule

There has been a lack of constrution for more than a week.  For more than three weeks several projects had to stop or slow in PV because there was no steel to be had. In fact there is another huge project in the Marina that has had no constrution now for a month.  On top of that it has rained almost every day in PV.  You can see this in the real time camera at Belaire.  Rain and lack of material can stall any construction project.  I know there is a lack of ethics and honesty and to much American greed from the owners at the Belaire, however the Mexican government is very pro investment and would not let any developer blatantly cheat people as some on this site have sugguested.


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## Mule

Buying pre-constuction can be gut churning.  Many people that purchased Belaire were not familiar with the ups and downs.  Just like a penny stock, the company has no earnings now or maybe ever, you can make a heap of money if they become profitable or loose if they do not.  Most people will not purchase pre-construction and only buy after they can see what they are buying.  Thats why people can buy for $150,000 and sell for $300,000 when the project is done without ever taking possession.  :whoopie:


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## Blondie

Buy for $150,000 and sell for $300,000.  Ya, right... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Mule

[_Message deleted. Please follow the BBS "Be Courteous" rule or don't post._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## zara

*Construction webcam*

I found out today how to view the new webcams. Go to the homepage, and pick the heading Press and News. Construction Phase 1 will come on. Then click and 2 cameras will come on . Then press the second line down for the pics. I have done it 5 times. Twice it worked, and the other three times I had trouble getting it. Don't give it. Keep giving it a try till it works. They certainly had a lot of rain based on today's pictures. However, there are people there working.


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## zara

*Belaire Web cam*

I just tried it again, and you need to double click where it says Press and News, not going down to construction part. It just worked again doing it that way.


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## Dave M

Well, zara, your difficulties in making the webcam link work properly, after it has been in place for three months and has never shown us much*, is more evidence to me that this is a project that I should avoid. 

Why would anyone want to sink money into a project that (1) is far from completion, (2) is being developed by an entity that seems to have no successful track record, (3) seems to have had no discernable construction activity for the past three months and (4) has numerous complaints from those who have already made a purchase? 

I don't have the answer. So I guess I'll wait for however long it takes for the project to be completed and then consider buying a week on the resale market for a fraction of what it would cost me today.  Meanwhile, I can invest the funds I would use for a purchase - probably for several years! 

* = The "Real time construction preview pictures" show exactly the same scenario - an almost empty lot with a few pieces of construction equipment - as what we saw in mid-April. In fact, those current photos show less in the way of progress than the purported construction photos on the site that are dated during the first week of April.


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## Blondie

And regardless of what Mule (nice name, that) has posted above, anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that the Mexican government doesn't give a rat's patootie about its building corporations cheating people. 
We read these horror stories on this board everyday. A fool and his money, and all that jazz.


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## Snappy Sam

Count us in as those who forgot that "if it is too good to be true..."
We bought a 1/12th (four week) package yesterday and found your website today...obviously a day too late. We plan to rescind tomorrow (Monday) first thing and skip our dinner with Marcos tomorrow night! No progress from what we saw yesterday on site compared to the April photos. And no workers, lthough you probably wouldn't expect many on a Saturday.
WE NEED ADVICE!!! What do we do first , second, third? Fortunately our deposit was by credit card so we will call them but our paperwork says we won't receive our $1700 "closing cost" back. Has anyone else had that happen?


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## Karen G

Snappy Sam said:


> What do we do first , second, third? Fortunately our deposit was by credit card so we will call them but our paperwork says we won't receive our $1700 "closing cost" back. Has anyone else had that happen?


Look carefully at your paperwork and if there are any instructions about how to rescind, follow them exactly. Given the nature of all the stuff we've heard about this outfit, you may not even have rescission instructions. At any rate, just write a simple letter saying you are rescinding your agreement dated _____ .  Take or send a copy to the Bellaire office. You might also send a copy to Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency. Notify your credit card that you are disputing the charge.

The wording in your contract about being liable for closing costs if you rescind is absurd!  If the contract is rescinded, there will be no closing and no closing costs. The deal doesn't exist anymore once you rescind it. Plus, under Mexican law you have the right to rescind within a specified time period.

I'm glad you found this thread in time and let us know how your rescission goes.


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## Snappy Sam

*Keep your fingers crossed for us!*

Thank you so much Karen for your words of advice. We realy appreciate it. I'll be writing our letter of rescission shortly and we'll make copies and deliver it ourselves this morning. We WILL let everyone know what happens. 
And for anyone who has heard the lack of steel for buildfing projects and the torrential rains excuses....we've witnessed three other building projects that aren't delayed by lack of materials or the rain so don't buy in to those excuses!


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## brucecz

Snappy Sam said:


> Thank you so much Karen for your words of advice. We realy appreciate it. I'll be writing our letter of rescission shortly and we'll make copies and deliver it ourselves this morning. We WILL let everyone know what happens.
> And for anyone who has heard the lack of steel for buildfing projects and the torrential rains excuses....we've witnessed three other building projects that aren't delayed by lack of materials or the rain so don't buy in to those excuses!



When we recinded we did the same plus we sent a copy by registered mail to the Belaire and also mailed a copy to Perfecto and kept several copies in case our charge company wanted proof. We also are keeping copies for our own records.

Bruce


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## Karen G

brucecz said:


> we sent a copy by registered mail to the Belaire and also mailed a copy to Perfecto and kept several copies in case our charge company wanted proof. We also are keeping copies for our own records.


Excellent advice. I forgot to mention that you must get some kind of record showing that you submitted your letter and they received it.  If you handcarry it to the office, have someone there sign a copy for you showing they received it. Also, it would be good to do as Bruce did above in sending it registered or certified mail to also have that record of receipt.


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## Archie583

Zara,
I have no problem watching the construction in real time. I do the following:
1. Go to the Belaire site
2. Click on Press & News
3. When the pictures come up double click on the one you want to look at;
4. Click on Video Active X Mode
5. If you are running windows a yellow band will appear. You must give permission to windows to install active X controls.  You have to click on it and install the active x controls.  You must do this every time you want to watch the construction.
6. You can see the people and machines actually move around
It looks very muddy there but you can see the big machines digging around.
I hope this helps you.
Henry


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## Blondie

Is there any way to discern if these are, indeed, new images and not just old footage being rerun?


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## PamF

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Zara,
> I have no problem watching the construction in real time. I do the following:




What exactly are you watching?  The 2 men (HUGE CREW) standing around the hole with water in it?  Seriously, what is going on there?


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## zara

Thanks. I think we have to keep the faith. What else can we do?? It is the rainy season, and they were overwhelmed with water. It is being drained out, and hopefully progress will be made unless there's  alot more water. We have to think positively. They are obviously employing more than 2 people, which everyone can see if you watch the videos enough.


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## SenorOjO

*My experience at Belaire*

Just got back from Puerto Vallarta and had the pleasure :hystericalf attending a presentation at the Belaire Golf resort. Was offered $400.00 incentive to attend. the deal was as outline previously. $125,000 for four weeks in a one bedroom. No maintenance fees if purchased the same day as presentation. Guarantee for a buy back at what you paid. Guarantee payment for each week you did not use of $2000 for a total of up $8000. Term set for 100 years (renewable every 25 at no cost). Thought it is represented as fractional of minimal of four weeks to full ownership. They never mentioned a title reflecting this. They made claims about having acess to a lear jet for traveling to and from the resort. Access to yaghts. Registry exchange. 

They then showed me and my wife the model units. Pure luxury and of a size that was beyond belief. I estimated that the studio unit measured more than 1200 square feet and the masters suite must of measured at about 1600 square feet. 

It was clearly an unbelievable proposal that by its very nature was to good to believe. I didn't fall for it and did not purchase.

I have extensive experience in the field of architecture, development (structuing development deals), and construction, having worked for the City of Los Angeles in overseeing economic development for the city and have a degree in Architecture from California Polythecnic University. 

The biggest giveaway that I should not trust what was presented to me was the quality and size of the model units. a developer builds the maximum amount of units he can sell to maximize his profit and taking into consideration the market values. The quality of materials should also be in line with the price. It is like a dealership selling you a car of the quality of a mercedez at the price of a honda. As much as we wish it, it does not happen. The units more realistically should have been half the size of what they where for the price they were seeking. Secondly the site is not the most ideal site for a creme de la creme development. The best quality units will be found in the best sites and with an appropriated sales tag. The site of the Belaire is not a quality site. Indeed the development faces and is next to the major PV airport and indeed when we were at the presentation we could hear quite well several planes taking off. Thought it overlooks a golf course, it does not have direct ocean acess or will even have ocean views (since existing nine story highrise resorts to the west will block views of the bay). 

They never gave me a feeling of confidence that they could or would be able to follow through in building what they said they were. This is not to say that they were able to sway a couple at another table to purchase (based on the poping of the sparkly and applause from staff on the couple becoming new owners).

As to the building site. I did not see any construction activity and basically the site is still in site prep at best. We stayed at the nearby Velas Vallarta and would take daily walks by the Belair and never saw more than a couple of workers basically doing very little. the presenter indicated to me that they were just going to start construction sometime in three weeks. they were awaiting the completion and acceptance of the environmental impact report by the government. Not a very good sign since this part of vallarta was wetlands and development would require dealing with natural habitats and a very high water table.


Upon our return to the States Friday July 11 a few days after the presentation at Belair, I mentioned to my wife that I was left with the impression that unlike other presentations I have attended were the thruth is streched a little to make a sale, the belair smelled to me like a real scam. That it was very unlikely that anything would be built there. That is when I decided to go to the internet and see what I could find out about the Belair and came upon the Tug Blog (thought I have been a member for two years).

I hope I am wrong on this gvien that people have plopped hard earned money on dreams. but based on what I saw I doubt that I am wrong.


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## Snappy Sam

*Visit to the Belaire today!*

Wow! Now that was an experience! We followed both Karen's and Bruce's advice (who have now become our new best friends  ) and delivered our letter to Jonathan and Marcos personally at the Belaire. Both Jonathan and Marcos were just fine to deal with but then we met  Antonio, who we were told is one of the partners of the project! Incredible!!!! He is actually Jonathan's father and is best described as the "godfather of the property ". We hadn't met him on Saturday. Antonio spent time insulting both of us, called us "stupid" on two occasions for not being visionary and not smart enough to know how to make big money. He mentioned all of his connections to important people and properties in Las Vegas, Mexico, Dubai and Sicily and that he is a multi-millionaire who retiried at age 37. He wasn't happy when I asked him if he was retired why he was there working which encouraged him to continue with his "lovely"comments. 
After he finally walked out after approximately 40 minutes, we met with Marcos, a new young salesperson Michael who also is a nice young man and Chris a gentleman who interviewed us again about why we rescinded. We finally recieved a letter from Carlos stating that our total payment would be refunded to our visa account within 15 days. I gave them copies of the rescission letter, copies of the instructions they provided in our contract for rescinding and copies of the other signed documents. We let them know that we've sent the same to PERFECO and also to our U.S. Consulate here in PV. We met with a representative from their accounting department who said that we had to give them back the original contract they issued to us so that the company wouldn't have to pay tax on the money from us. We did give them the originals but also let them see we had copies of everything. 
We also filed a "dispute" with our credit card company so they have a record as well. We will be sending the credit card company copies of our letter of rescission and all other documentation. We will keep you posted to let you know if our money is credited within the fifteen day period they've promised.
In terms of building...Antonio guaranteed us that Phase one, the first tower would be completed by February 09. His other employees said March 09. There were only three men on site "working." One was literally up to his armpits in water in a large hole where the first tower is to be built. We were told by Antonio that this project wasn't cheap work such as the construction at the Peninsula which he says sunk over 8 feet after the completion of their first tower. We can tell you that we saw numerous men working today at the Peninsula project, the ICON project and the new building at the NH Krystal which currently is over 5 floors high in less than a year's time. Not completed, but the majority of the framework is done and they are putting in the interior walls. 
I will be returning here on business at least two more times this fall and winter and will again let everyone know what I see at that time. Today, sadly was very discouraging. Again thank you to all for your advice and you will see as as members shortly! Just as soon as I can use my credit card again in the next 48 hours!:whoopie:


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## Karen G

Snappy Sam, thanks so much for posting again and sharing your experience.  I'm so glad you found TUG and rescinded in time.

Please keep us informed about getting the charge taken off your credit card, and welcome to TUG.


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## fidji

you sound like you work there one of the closers maybe? did antonio inspired you to come here and write a false review? or do you get a spiff= special performance incentive fund for that 
and for your info if you are not registerd with the asociation its fine but i bet you guys belair are not even registerd with profeco which makes all your contracts illegal as i said its a big scam ,and coming up here and sayng that you can make 300k form 150k original purchase price i am sure you work for belair ,and yes i am a competitor but one who is legal and one where the clients get what they buy we dont have any reason to mislead any customer our product works ,and also it sounds like you are planting a seed here for owners to be prepered to get brooke beacuse they bought preconstrucion 
have a nice day 






Mule said:


> Buying pre-constuction can be gut churning.  Many people that purchased Belaire were not familiar with the ups and downs.  Just like a penny stock, the company has no earnings now or maybe ever, you can make a heap of money if they become profitable or loose if they do not.  Most people will not purchase pre-construction and only buy after they can see what they are buying.  Thats why people can buy for $150,000 and sell for $300,000 when the project is done without ever taking possession.  :whoopie:


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## fidji

call credit card company cancle the paymant,go to profeco office behind sams club get them to write you a cancelation letter with your contract in hands and go back they refund your money no questions asked let aslo profeco call them
gl




Snappy Sam said:


> Count us in as those who forgot that "if it is too good to be true..."
> We bought a 1/12th (four week) package yesterday and found your website today...obviously a day too late. We plan to rescind tomorrow (Monday) first thing and skip our dinner with Marcos tomorrow night! No progress from what we saw yesterday on site compared to the April photos. And no workers, lthough you probably wouldn't expect many on a Saturday.
> WE NEED ADVICE!!! What do we do first , second, third? Fortunately our deposit was by credit card so we will call them but our paperwork says we won't receive our $1700 "closing cost" back. Has anyone else had that happen?


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Can we help while we are in PV?*

We are going to be in PV until Friday and wondered if anyone needed any help from us while we are here. We'd be happy to help if there is anything we could do for anyone.
We won't know if we actually will have our visa account reimbursed from Belaire for at least two weeks but fortunately we do have lots of people here in PV who can help us after we leave. 
Let me suggest to all of you who continue to have questions/concerns/dfficulties with Belaire to notify your country's consulate's office in PV as well as any federal officals in your home country. If you are a U.S. citizen, we do have a consulate office here in PV. 
Does anyone know the spelling of Antonio's last name? I've seen a couple of spellings now including Copela, Copola, Coppola and also his son's last name which is Tomasello. Who ARE these people? Anyone have actual names for these people?


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## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire PV Investigation*

I had purchased this timeshare 1.5 yrs ago and would like to investigate the authenticity of it's intent. The individuals who are guests I ask that you do not respond since your intent is in question. I would like to seek information on how we can investigate this issue and confront the result. 

In the 1.5 yrs. this project has been going on for, I would have expected to see a multiple operations to finish ASAP. I have been promised an II membership and they had said this has been changed to the Registry Collection. Aithough, I have no memership number. An Attorney has offered with a 2000.00 retainer to investigate this issue. As a user group are you willing to support this activity ? This I hope would put this issue to rest. We would send the funds directly to the attorney.


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## Karen G

TimeShare Junky said:


> The individuals who are guests I ask that you do not respond since your intent is in question.


You are listed as a guest yourself!


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## TimeShare Junky

Interesting that I have been paying the yearly and I am a guest...How does that happen


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## Karen G

TimeShare Junky said:


> Interesting that I have been paying the yearly and I am a guest...How does that happen



You can remedy that situation by following the instructions here.


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## TimeShare Junky

I would like the address to the PERFECO office.


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## Karen G

TimeShare Junky said:


> I would like the address to the PERFECO office.


The correct spelling of the office is PROFECO.   Maybe Snappy Sam can get the Puerto Vallarta Profeco office address and contact information for you before he leaves PV.

Here's a helpful brochure from Profeco that might have some information you can use.


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## fidji

here is the adress http://www.profeco.gob.mx/delegaciones/DelegaEdos.asp?edo=JAL
right on botton of page 3222250000

Av. Oceano Pacífico # 108-3, Local 106, Plaza Palma Col. Palmar de Aramara C.P. 48306 Pto. Vallarta, Jal.




TimeShare Junky said:


> I would like the address to the PERFECO office.


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## Snappy Sam

*Belaire PROFECO registration #*

Some of you might need the following info now and certainly there will be those in the future who unfortunately will probably need it:
World Resort Marketing Enterprises S. de R.L. de CV represented by Jonathan James Tomasello signs the contracts "on Behalf of Belaire Golf Resort & Spa" 
In cased you missed it previously, Jonathan is the son of ONE of the partners of Belaire, Antonio Copela (Sp?).
The good news is they are registered by PROFECO with the number 772-2008 dated 10/03/2007 according to the information they provided on their contract with us. I am not sure if that means they registered in October (10) or March (03) as I don't know if that date lists the month or day first. We will check that out today with PROFECO when we visit their office and verify that information. And of course will share what we learn with all of you.


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## zara

*To Timeshare Junky*

I do belong to TUG, and have the very same concerns. The question is-if nothing ever gets done, and we are way past the rights of recision, what recourse would we have? Did the attorney give you any info on that? They obviously are doing something at Belaire, which is evidenced by the video, so some people are on the payroll. I certainly hope we have not been ripped off. Thanks for your willingness to look into the issue and not just banter this back and forth.


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## TimeShare Junky

Please excuse the unwillingness to search threads. However, what will their registration with PROFECO buy us as far as them being reliable to their intent.


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## fidji

i really doubt that contracts such as thoose from belair would be aproved by profeco check it out but highly unlikely





Snappy Sam said:


> Some of you might need the following info now and certainly there will be those in the future who unfortunately will probably need it:
> World Resort Marketing Enterprises S. de R.L. de CV represented by Jonathan James Tomasello signs the contracts "on Behalf of Belaire Golf Resort & Spa"
> In cased you missed it previously, Jonathan is the son of ONE of the partners of Belaire, Antonio Copela (Sp?).
> The good news is they are registered by PROFECO with the number 772-2008 dated 10/03/2007 according to the information they provided on their contract with us. I am not sure if that means they registered in October (10) or March (03) as I don't know if that date lists the month or day first. We will check that out today with PROFECO when we visit their office and verify that information. And of course will share what we learn with all of you.


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## Snappy Sam

*PERFECO Experience re Belaire*

We went to the PERFECO office in PV yesterday morning and filed our complaint. Today we made a short stop back at their office to make sure we had an active file. We do. 
We did find out that PERFECO has had numerous complaints filed about Belaire. 
They kept copies of our Notice of Rescission, copies of our contract, visa receipt and a copy of the notice we received from the accounting dept. at the Belaire which states that our membership has been cancelled. Two different people from PERFECO have assured us that we will receive a full refund within 15 days. Probably one of the most important things to have is the notice from Belaire confirming cancellation.
I highly suggest to anyone still having difficulities with Belaire to report your situation to the Mexican embassy or consulate in your area. It really helps to have them on your side.
We looked at the Belaire construction site one more time this morning so we could report to all of you that VERY LITTLE is happening while other projects in the area are very busy. 
Again, we will keep you posted.


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## Blondie

Again that is "PROFECO" so be careful it is spelled right when doing any searches


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## Snappy Sam

*Thanks Blondie*

OOPS! Was hurrying out the door and I did mispell PROFECO again! Blondie is right!!!Thanks for helping out. 

If you go to their office it is on the second floor at the front of the building and the hours are 8:30AM- 3:30PM. 
I don't know if it helps or not that Belaire is registered but at least it's good to know that PROFECO knows there is definitely a problem.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Great News for us!*

We are on our way home from PV and the first thing we did back on U.S. soil was to join TUG (just 20 minutes ago). Then we looked on our credit card on line statement and lo and behold....Belaire credited our payment in full!  Now that was fast!! 
We made the purchase last Saturday , went to the Belaire with our rescission letter that Karen and Bruce our fellow TUG members helped us with on Monday, went to PROFECO (Blondie, I'm finally spelling it correctly  on Wednesday and Thursday and received the credit to our account today."Do you think it has something to do with TUG positive vibes? WE are convinced it does! And are so glad we have joined.
Again, a big thank you to all of you who took your time to help us. Count on us to do the same for any of you when ever possible.


----------



## Karen G

Snappy Sam said:


> We are on our way home from PV and the first thing we did back on U.S. soil was to join TUG (just 20 minutes ago).


Welcome to the TUG family!  So glad to have you join us and so very glad things worked out for you so well to rescind and get your money back. I love it what that happens! 

One more thing you need to do:  Change your profile status from "guest" to "member."  Here's  how to accomplish that.


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## fidji

i am happy for you you should send a big thank you email to profeco they dont mess around they get things done
have a nice day




Snappy Sam said:


> We are on our way home from PV and the first thing we did back on U.S. soil was to join TUG (just 20 minutes ago). Then we looked on our credit card on line statement and lo and behold....Belaire credited our payment in full!  Now that was fast!!
> We made the purchase last Saturday , went to the Belaire with our rescission letter that Karen and Bruce our fellow TUG members helped us with on Monday, went to PROFECO (Blondie, I'm finally spelling it correctly  on Wednesday and Thursday and received the credit to our account today."Do you think it has something to do with TUG positive vibes? WE are convinced it does! And are so glad we have joined.
> Again, a big thank you to all of you who took your time to help us. Count on us to do the same for any of you when ever possible.


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## JoeG9100

We have not heard anything from Belaire. It has been more than a month since we sent in the recension letter. so we are still disputing the charges on the credit card. When we sent them the email before they got the letter they tried to smooth things over by sending us copies of the deed and other papers. They even sent s build schedule. I can say this it looks like that they are already behind on that. From reading tings on TUG nothing has changed since we were there  in June.

Good luck to all  tying to get money back! thanks to TUG for alerting us.

Joe


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## Karen G

Joe, have you contacted Profeco yet?  If not, it might help to send them copies of your rescission information and see if they can do anything to help you get your deposit back.


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## Snappy Sam

*Rescission for Joe*

After our experience with the Belaire, we agree with Karen's advice wholeheartedly! When we went to the PROFECO office in PV the first question they asked us is when we purchased. They wanted to know if we were in the five day limit as required by Mexican law. 
However, there was information in their office that gave information about those who were beyond that period of time. So I am quite sure they will be able to advise you. 
Only one person in the office spoke English so you'll need to be patient when you write. Or better yet, find someone who speaks Spanish in your local community to help you. If you are near a university that might be a good place to check or even your local high schools for a Spanish teacher. 
But don't wait!!! Get busy ASAP!!! The complaints are  piling up about Belaire and you'll want to get any money back quickly. We could be wrong, but I wouldn't count on them being around forever!


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## Snappy Sam

Thanks...we did send a thank you to PROFECO too!


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## brucecz

Snappy Sam said:


> Thanks...we did send a thank you to PROFECO too!



Sam, I see you own a great timeshare. Others on Tug talk very highly of your crane.

Bruce


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## Snappy Sam

Thanks Bruce ...we DO own a great timeshare at The Crane. We'll post a new thread on the Caribbean site for more about that. And we plan to write a review this week on the member's site for the Residences at The Crane. Would do that today, but this day is reserved for laundry and paperwork! (Hey, the price you pay when you come home!) And Bruce, THANK YOU again for all of your help and support with the Belaire.  I really hope those who are still involved are able to get out and recoup their losses. We've noticed that their right side camera has been down for at least two days. Maybe they don't want anyone to see the large "nature made" swimming hole that is there. We saw a "worker" in that hole last week who was up to his shoulders in water. And we didn't see any evidence of draining it. :annoyed:


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## pammex

I am here in PV and I have pics will post them next week.........hate to say it but get the letters into Profeco and whomever else...rescind, etc.  Barely nothing done since Feb when we were last here...........so sorry for all who purchased but have heard Profeco is being helpful in getting refunds.....

This is the worst scenario for timeshares I have heard in Mexico and I own 10 timeshares all but one in Mexico........

Talk next week with more info and pics.....


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## pianodinosaur

*Three Cheers for PuertoVallartaGirl and Snappy Sam*

Thanks for one of the most interesting threads I have ever seen.  
I have been thinking about a resale at the Grand Mayan or Mayan Palace.  That would be my way of revenge for my experience with the Grand Mayan sales reps.  However, I have been very skeptical regarding the legal ramifications of purchasing in Mexico. This thread has been most informative.


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## Snappy Sam

*Listen to Pammex*



pammex said:


> I am here in PV and I have pics will post them next week.........hate to say it but get the letters into Profeco and whomever else...rescind, etc.  Barely nothing done since Feb when we were last here...........so sorry for all who purchased but have heard Profeco is being helpful in getting refunds.....
> 
> This is the worst scenario for timeshares I have heard in Mexico and I own 10 timeshares all but one in Mexico........
> 
> Talk next week with more info and pics.....



Anyone who has any doubts really needs to listen to Pammex! We too have a person on the ground there who has said that nothing is happening! It might be a good idea to send a letter to Profeco signed by ALL of you who still want to rescind. I don't know if tht's possible to do through TUG or not but I would think at the very least you could compose something together here.


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## taffy19

Karen G said:


> Snappy Sam, thanks so much for posting again and sharing your experience. I'm so glad you found TUG and rescinded in time.
> 
> Please keep us informed about getting the charge taken off your credit card, and welcome to TUG.


Congratulations with the great outcome of your story and you don't have to wait weeks, months or even more than a year to get your money back and worry about your purchase and if there will be a resort or not.

Why don't the authorities close down this company? You would think that Mexico doesn't want to ruin business for the good and honest condo or timeshare developers over there. All this bad publicity can only hurt everyone's sales.

I hope that other victims will find this forum here so they can have their nightmare resolved quickly too. Thank you TUG. You have helped so many people already.


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## zara

*Belaire pics*

If you go on the website, you will see that they are working and that some progress has been made. At least this is a step in the right direction, we hope.


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## Mule

Thanks to snappy sam, we now know all you tuggers were wrong.  Belaire is a member of profeco.  Also, for all you tuggers that can't see the ongoing construction, you might need some computer skills assistance. . . . .  Alert, beware: now over 2500 lawsuits against GRAND MAYAN in US.  Grand Mayan pulls operation out of US, sells to Hotel Chain and soon will be changing their name!  . . .  Dozens of resorts are disclosed in this special report that have had building delays and have structural problems from fast unchecked construction.   Don't be fooled by ney-sayers on this tug site.  

_I have deleted parts of this post that could be construed to be an advertisement. Karen G, Moderator_


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## Mule

Ok Karen, they were in made in jest.:rofl:


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## Karen G

Mule said:


> Ok Karen, they were in made in jest.:rofl:


From the many posts on this thread by people who have actually been to a Belaire presentation and have sunk their hard-earned money into the project, I doubt those folks would find much humor in your post.


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## pammex

sorry to all but I am continuing to have less than sporadic internet service, hopefully a new bridge has arrived to my provider today and tomorrow should be back up and running full speed at that time I'll get my pics on here for you.

Ah yes the Mayan does have many lawsuits Mule but they do have functioning units people use every day....


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## pammex

zara said:


> If you go on the website, you will see that they are working and that some progress has been made. At least this is a step in the right direction, we hope.



I have been following this project, shall we call it, some time  now.  The work is minimal, seems just enough to make it appear as though the project is legit. 

I cannot put up my pics right now as my internet connection is at best sporadic and having trouble all week, so as soon as it is functioning properly I will post them.  ( Believe me the lack of internet or sporadic internet is driving me bezerk).  

The pics we took were on a sunday as hate to say but we do not want to be anywhere near that site seen taking pics, take that how you will.  We did pass by many times throughout two weeks though and at best the most workers on site were 10.  On Sunday there were none of course except a sole man, maybe a guard, who got on cell phone as we took pics...hmmm..

The infamous ( I can't access all the threads at this moment so forget name) construction company has apparently been replaced by another name, which my husband noted.  The pile driver machine is gone and my husband said he saw no whatever they are called pile drivers ( as they should be sticking up out of ground) ( my husband is in construction).  The pile driver machine has been replaced by a dump truck and a back hoe ( think that is name) ( wish hubby were here to help me with these names of construction machines).  

There has been a big hole dug and it is filled with water of course....the fence now has some green barrier material threaded thru it possibly to obstruct view of site.  There is a small pile of rebar on the ground rusting, which my husband laughed at...said please there should be piles and piles of that at this point.  

We were there just last Feb., and in reality very little has been done, despite the fact that many other projects throughout PV have been moving right along.  

We questioned many locals, ex-pats and Mexicans regarding Belair and well responses were not good.  "  That project has many complaints, that project has been going on for over a year with very little being done,  There are problems there, stay away, etc., They somehow have evaded the timeshare loops to the hilt and are allowed to continue their shananigans", we could not get many people to express much further or elaborate.  I understand as things can be different here in Mexico and big money talks as well as bad news could be dangerous etc.  One person just said whatever you do, do not buy there....hmm..

I have no vested interest in this project other than to try to be a help in updates to  Tug members with news of their vested dollars into this project due to fact that I frequent PV a lot.  

I'll get those pics on here as soon as I have reliable internet, we took with two cameras via two people so different perspectives....

I'll also give another update in near future when I return to PV.  

I am wondering of those who have not rescinded are you being given accomodation use at other resorts etc?  Seems as though they have gone well past their date of completion and if so then buyers should have some sort of options for use.  Any input on this from any who have decided to keep their purchase.  

I am happy for those who were able to rescind and got refunds but sad for those who did not.  I did hear that Profeco was even doing some help in refunds or such well past the rescind law of 5 days, like many months.  

Something is just not right......I still have my fingers crossed for those who are holding out for their dream fractional ownership in PV, but my mind says other than my heart so heed caution....

In response to some posts regarding inability to obtain material and rain.  Well this is Mexico from June to Sept/Oct.  Rainy season and it rains almost every night. ( even some days)  Construction does not stop in Mexico due to rain....and why there would be an inability to get material is beyond me......PV is far from back woods, hills of Mexico.....we saw many other projects moving right along despite rain, water and supposed lack of supplies!


----------



## Snappy Sam

Again we encourage you to listen to Pammex and to our advice as well. We truly understand why you didn't want to be seen with a camera around the Belaire site. I'm sure photography wouldn't be appreciated.
Something about meeting one of the partners who insulted (called us "stupid") and intimidated us when we delivered our notice of rescission in a fashion reminiscent of a movie starring Marlon Brando made us definitely decide we made the right descision not to accept his "offer that we couldn't refuse".


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## pammex

Sorry but the pics will be delayed longer, still a problem with my internet, I have satellite and now the antenae/satellite has to be moved due to obstruction, as well as now my computer won't take the pics off the camera memory card for one of my cameras to even put into computer.....I am too frustrated to try the other camera now......hopefully all this internet trouble is resolved next week, then if computer won't take pics I can do it via laptop....

Snappy Sam I think you made right decision in not accepting the offer you could not refuse.....I hope more people find TUG and read all these updates, and for those already invested I do hope you pursue with profeco etc.  I can only imagine your frustration after laying out money in this project.  

I truly hope Snappy Sam and I are wrong for all who did invest sakes'.


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## Snappy Sam

I hope we are wrong too as it sounds like many people have put a lot of money in to this. And I agree with Karen, it's no joking matter.
There is a lot of negative information about Belaire on the TUG websites which saved us from being another one who had a lot invested. While other places get some negative press too, it pales in comparison to the Belaire. 
We found TUG the night we bought by going on line trying to find information on the place. Hopefully others will find the extremely informative threads on TUG as we did and save themselves a lot of sleepless nights. Once again, we couldn't be more greatful to everyone here who gave us concrete advice on what to do and how to do it.


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## PamF

Time Share Junky any news on investigating the Belaire???

I am a guest here but my parents bought into the whole thing.


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## Karen G

PamF said:


> I am a guest here but my parents bought into the whole thing.


Pam, have your parents contacted Profeco?  If you haven't already done so, read the other very long thread here about Belaire.


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## zara

*progress*

Check out the website-Construction is definately taking place in the webcam on the right. That is very encouraging!


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## makua

*Just returned from PV*

:annoyed: We just returned from PV. We did attend a presentation at the Belaire and had some interesting statements made. The latest line is that they are going to move the airport after the many improvements made in to it in the last year. After hearing this statement we made a point of talking to many locals who said that there is no way they are going to move it.  Last year they said at a presentation that they were going to change the runways to make the take-offs go over the Mayan Palace. They haven't done that either.
As far as construction goes they have done very very little since last year. The locals say they aren't really working at all!!!!  About all we saw in 2 weeks time were 3-4 men pumping water out of hole and moving very few materials around.
Jerry


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## Blondie

Wow- I would think that after a year and a half you could request your money back via Profeco and skip the attorney. Surely there must be language in your paperwork stating a reasonable completion/occupancy date. Move the airport? Geesh, what dodo would fall for that malarky?


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## judy23

I guess I am a little confused. If you look at the Web-Cam it looks like there is a bldg being constructed.Can someone clarify this for me. Thanks


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## Zib

Wow!  There is a huge, HUGE thread on this already with lots of info.  Near the last it tells you how to go through Profeco.  Can't believe you haven't read it.  LOTS of info.


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## Karen G

Zib said:


> There is a huge, HUGE thread on this already with lots of info.  Near the last it tells you how to go through Perfecto.



That thread has dropped off to the second page of Mexico threads and  here is  a link to it.  

The name of the Mexican consumer protection agency is PROFECO in case anyone is trying to find it online.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*More Belaire concern*

I decided to post on this lengthy thread so that we could merge all of our information from the new thread as well. I do have a question for those of you who have been members of TUG much longer than us. 
We recieved a "Private Message" last week from a "Guest" on TUG. Now we are wondering if it was actually from someone from the Belaire. 
The message really didn't need to be private and I will post it with our reply if that's an "ok" thing to do. We suggested they look at all of the information on this site and add any information they might have as well such as the full names of the peole at Belaire. Has this happend to anyone else? 

WE all seem to know first names (Antonio, Marcos, Jonathan) but not last names.


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## zara

*Web cam*

Obviously the airport is not going to be moved. HOWEVER, construction is taking place-maybe slowly, but we all can see progress being made. Can't we just be a little positive for a change? Especially for us who have paid a while ago. Hopefully construction will continue to move forward, and the place will be as good as promised. I am trying to be positive. I think those of us involved could use some good comments for a change.


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## pammex

zara said:


> Obviously the airport is not going to be moved. HOWEVER, construction is taking place-maybe slowly, but we all can see progress being made. Can't we just be a little positive for a change? Especially for us who have paid a while ago. Hopefully construction will continue to move forward, and the place will be as good as promised. I am trying to be positive. I think those of us involved could use some good comments for a change.



Belair has told many people that the airport will be moved when they gave the objection of may be noisy with airplanes taking off and landing so close.....they even told me and my husband that they were going to move existing airport and also add a second airport on the South Side...duh, it is a mountain!!!  They also told us they were going to put a road straight thru to NV.....( exactly where the military base is...come on....Maybe if Belair told the truth instead of fabrications people would not be so leary of the slow construction and such.  

I think lots of people are trying to be positive and trying to help....some of us have no vested interest and we feel for those of you who have laid out, I am sure a hefty sum of money.  I have always said I hope my suspicions are wrong and have my fingers crossed that it turns out as promised but sometimes reality and facts do not coincide with wishes.  

Yes, there is some construction but dare I say for the length of time it is minimal...sorry that is a reality....yes there are workers, but far too few for a project of its size, again sorry but reality.....

I have seen whole housing developments in Mexico, much larger than what is expected at Belair already constructed and finished, something wrong with that picture......

The positives if they build as promised it will be just wonderful....the units and such were incredible.  I do hope this does come to fruition as you want, but I also think all involved should be proactive, involve Profeco and also do whatever it is you need to do to protect your interests, already some of you must have lost time in use of unit NO?

I believe everyone is just trying to help...........that is positive!!


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## pammex

Yes snappy sam, I have received some unnecessary private message from a guest in regards to Belair that had no reason to be PM'd could have just been posted......I think your thoughts may be correct!!


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## Snappy Sam

*Private messages*



pammex said:


> Yes snappy sam, I have received some unnecessary private message from a guest in regards to Belair that had no reason to be PM'd could have just been posted......I think your thoughts may be correct!!



My guess is we aren't the only ones with Private Messages from a "Guest". So in the interest of everyone, here is what we received along with our reply for what it's worth:
QUOTE=maxwd]We bought at Belaire in the summer of 2007 and have had nothing but aggrevation.  We supposedly had a "money back guarantee" and when it became apparent the development was going nowhere, we wanted our money back.  Of course, it never happened though we have tried multiple times to speak with Carlos, Antonio, the builder, Jaime, and have since filed complaints with Profeco.  We are at a standstill.  Cannot get them to offer us alternate vacation time and while we have in writing the guarantee of withdrawing the contract, it is not happening.  We made a sizable investment and we are infuriated.  Profeco told us that there would be a hearing about one month ago, and then said it was postponed and is due to happen in Oct.  Any suggestions?  Do we have any hope of getting results?  WE WANT OUT!!!![/QUOTE]
Let us suggest that you go to the lengthy Belaire thread (the one with several pages of messages) and read through all of  the advice many, many folks have given there. We followed the direction given by Bruce and Karen G the Mexico Moderator and then got busy ourselves.
Do you know the full names of any of those people at Belaire? Antonio and Carlos are supposdly related and now Antonio's son Jonathan works there too. If you have any complete names please let us know.
Become a TUG member and add your questions, comments, etc. to the Board. You will find a whole lot of help there!!!
We wish you a good outcome and I suggest you organize with the other TUG members for help.


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## Snappy Sam

*Trying to help*

I agree that the positive is that everyone is trying to help. To that effect, we all have access to a very long thread of questions/concerns/complaints on the Belaire demonstrating lots of conflicting promises, commitments, etc. on their part which can serve as "evidence" for everyone. We suggest you copy the long thread as well as this one at some point to keep in case you need it at some point.
There truly is strength in numbers and many of us who are in the same boat so to speak along with many others like Pammex have pitched in with great advice for all. The ultimate positive is that sense of knowing that there really are some great people in this world and it seems many are TUG members!


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## judy23

I have their business cards. Carlos Gadea; Jaime Gomez; and if I can find Antonio's I will post it.


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## Snappy Sam

judy23 said:


> I have their business cards. Carlos Gadea; Jaime Gomez; and if I can find Antonio's I will post it.



Judy...Thank you for those names! That gives us real names to deal with instead of jusdt a company name. Of course that's if those are their real names! 

Antonio told us he didn't have a business card because they weren't allowed legally to use them in Mexico. Gee, that's a strange law. :annoyed:


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## KarenLK

Funny...a friend of a friend in PV is a realtor and I have HIS business card.


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## pammex

Snappy Sam said:


> Judy...Thank you for those names! That gives us real names to deal with instead of jusdt a company name. Of course that's if those are their real names!
> 
> Antonio told us he didn't have a business card because they weren't allowed legally to use them in Mexico. Gee, that's a strange law. :annoyed:



We do have some strange laws in Mexico or should I say different.....but that is a new one on me...:hysterical: 

My PM's were from guests with positive things to say about Belair, like construction progress etc....I just deleted them...


----------



## taffy19

Snappy Sam said:


> Judy...Thank you for those names! That gives us real names to deal with instead of jusdt a company name. Of course that's if those are their real names!
> 
> Antonio told us he didn't have a business card because they weren't allowed legally to use them in Mexico. Gee, that's a strange law. :annoyed:


That isn't true. I have many business card from RE brokers and timeshare salesmen too.

Snappy Sam, I have received many PMs from people who bought at another resort and must not have wanted to ask their questions in a forum. Some people like to stay private and rather ask questions privately. This is why they may have contacted some of you personally too. JMHO.

I would take positive PM's about this development with a grain of salt as they sound fishy. What a nightmare to go through if you "invested" your hard earned money in this resort. Next time we go to PV/NV I would like to see it in person and how they can fool so many people unless they shape up one day and get it built.

Have *Profeco* help you if you read this forum and see what they can do for you. They already helped others so they are aware of the problem.


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## Mule

[_Message deleted. You may post of your own experiences and of your own opinions, but you may not attack others in a manner that is less than courteous. (See the "Be Courteous" section of the Posting Rules located on the above blue bar)._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## PamF

So Mule spoke to several of the construction workers.  Well judging from the webcam, that's all that there are.....several.  Just checked the "LIVE" webcam and counted 4 workers.


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## Linda74

If it looks like a scam, smells like a scam, it probably is a scam.  As I posted months ago, we toured the property and came away struck by the impossibility of all the promises (moving the airport, etc).  Unfortunately, it seems they are using a portion of the money "robbed" from owners to lure more people for a tour, rather than building what they promised to build.
I sincerely hope that all of the victims get their money back.


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## Snappy Sam

*Let's be cautious...*

I'm afraid that a thread can be shut down if it goes to name calling. This is the second attempt by Mule to get us to do just that. Mule seems to start with attacking other Tuggers who are sharing information and I hope that isn't done in an attempt to get this thread shut down.
I understand why the Belaire wouldn't want anyone to find this thread as it is filled with up to date information, helpful ideas on what to do, and lots of care and concern. 
Let me suggest Mule that you take your Mayan comments and complaints to a new thread.


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## TROOPER08

judy23 said:


> I have their business cards. Carlos Gadea; Jaime Gomez; and if I can find Antonio's I will post it.



The man's name is Antonio Copela...or at least thats what his card says.  He made himself out to be the head of this operation but  Jonathan James Tomasellio signature is on all the paperwork  (rumored to be Antonio's son).


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## pammex

sorry I am trying to get my pics up....one camera card has worked and the pics are in my computer, for some strange reason I am having problem with the other camera card, one is Sony fine, the other Canon SD, keeps giving me some alert and will not put photos in computer, anyway will try over weekend to put in my laptop and see if that works, then I will get them on this site...so I foget how do I post pics to this site...I know I did it before and asked before but I am really frustrated with all the computer and internet problems have been having of late so just need a quick answer, no time to search back..please??  Thanks.


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## Blondie

"_Also, for all you tuggers that can't see the ongoing construction, you might need some computer skills assistance. . . . .  Dozens of resorts are disclosed in this special report that have had building delays and have structural problems from fast unchecked construction.   Don't be fooled by ney-sayers on this tug site.  _"  MULE

FYI, Mule (and I gotta say that name is a good fit) 
Decades ago the Empire State Building in New York city was built in under a year.  And that without the current, state of the art equipment and computer imaging, etc. Perhaps after a year and a half of nothing but moving dirt piles it is time for folks to face the music-- someone is walzing away with their money and this project is a front for robbery. Oh- by the way, last time I looked the Empire State Building was still standing and in good repair. So nay-sayers- stand up and be counted. You are the only ones with brains enough to see through this scam.


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## brucecz

Mule said:


> Thanks to snappy sam, we now know all you tuggers were wrong.  Belaire is a member of profeco.  Also, for all you tuggers that can't see the ongoing construction, you might need some computer skills assistance. . . . .  Alert, beware: now over 2500 lawsuits against GRAND MAYAN in US.  Grand Mayan pulls operation out of US, sells to Hotel Chain and soon will be changing their name!  . . .  Dozens of resorts are disclosed in this special report that have had building delays and have structural problems from fast unchecked construction.   Don't be fooled by ney-sayers on this tug site.
> 
> _I have deleted parts of this post that could be construed to be an advertisement. Karen G, Moderator_



Mule, please post a link to the special report you mentioned above stating that Quote"  Dozens of resorts are disclosed in this special report that have had building delays and have structural problems from fast unchecked construction." Unquote.

Thanks in advance to your positive response in posting that link.

Bruce


----------



## pammex

okay I have the pics in my computer, there was a problem with one of the memory cards but I finally got it to put pics in computer, so I can get them on here, but please remind me how to put pics on this site to save me time....

I'll get them on this site tomorow night or over weekend if someone tells me how...they are from July 2008....


----------



## pammex

This has taken me all night...must be an easier way..hope this is right..


----------



## pammex

I think you can click on the pics for bigger picture....


----------



## pammex

I have no clue what I am doing but think it is working...


----------



## pammex

must be an easier way...


----------



## pammex

more..


----------



## pammex




----------



## pammex

that is it for this time...lost quite a few with the camera card problems and during upload as well...as you can see for all this time, not too much done....sorry!


----------



## Karen G

Pam, thank you so much for taking the time to post your pictures. I know how frustrating it is to work with pictures on the computer, and I know everyone appreciates your effort.


----------



## pammex

Thanks Karen....I am sure I am doing it the hard way....but when I have some time, I'll try to learn more about all this...just wanted to get these pics to everyone, as I had promised and was afraid to try different ways for fear of losing all ths pics.....

I wish they showed a lot of construction for all those who have laid out money....but maybe those invested can check the webcam and see if it cioncides with my pics and then do whatever they must.  

Best wishes for all!!


----------



## zara

*Belaire pics*

thanks for all your hard work, but people just need to go on the website to see the progress. Would have saved you lots of frustration. Thanks though.


----------



## mterra

*Belaire*

OK, I am brand new to this site and am now very concerned/nervous.   

I just returned home from PV.  We went to the presentation and thought it was wonderful.  So, we signed/bought.  I looked over all the paperwork, made notes and we revisited the next day to ask questions.  

After finding this site and reading all the posts starting from Nov 2007 I reread all my paperwork, while having a large knot in my stomach.  I did not find any article 5.2.  Nothing that says anything like that at all.  

A couple of quotes in the contract.  Please help me, let me know if I am misunderstanding.

"Notice: Any bearer of this consumer's credit contract shall be subject to any claim or defense a debtor may have against the seller of the properties or services acquired hereunder or with the economical product hereof.  Recovery of any amount from debtor, hereunder, shall not exceed the amounts paid by debtor hereunder.  This contract has been recorded with the public registry of adherence contracts of the federal consumers attorney general's office, under number 3564/2007, entry granted to world resorts marketing enterprises, s der. l. de c.v."

"In accordance with the eleven clause in the purchase and pre-sale contract of a membership covering the rights of use of a vacational unit eneted i;nto by the buyer and the seller on this same dat ("the contract"), the buyer deposited the Membership in Belaire Golf Resort & Spa (PRC) in exchange for a membership issued by Belaire Golf Resort and Spa (PRC), allowing access to variable units d;uring any seasons at any of the Private Residence Clubs affiliated to the exchange companies."

They are with HSI, SFexchange, and RCI--what they told us anyway.

We took pics and there is some progress from the pics posted already.  We were told that the first 4 floors of both towers should be completed by "the first of the year."  Owners could start using at that time although construction would still be going on.  Said should be completed in 18 months.  

We talked with Marcos, so yes, he is still there.  Jonathan Tomasello signed most of the paper work with Carlos Gadea signing one of the papers.

So, if anyone has any words of wisdom, that has not been already said, please respond.  

Thank you

Mary


----------



## Blondie

Nice website, but I wish people would learn how to spell "accommodations" correctly. Attention to detail is important, even if it is only spelling. After all, how hard is it to use spellcheck?


----------



## Linda74

Thanks for the photos, Pam.  Blondie, I am with you.  Our DD is getting married in October.  They had  an insert printed about the hotel block for the wedding invitations (250 of them), and spelled accommodations wrong.  It was a $100 mistake.  They had to be reprinted but they could not send them out that way.  Accommodations is one word they will never spell wrong again!!!


----------



## Karen G

mterra said:


> So, if anyone has any words of wisdom, that has not been already said, please respond.



If you are still within your rescission time period, you might want to seriously considering rescinding your contract.  The deal will most certainly still be there if, after you've done plenty of research, you still think it's a good thing to purchase.  But, you have just this one opportunity to rescind. Don't miss it!


----------



## pammex

My only comment...listen closely to Karen's  post above.....rescind..


----------



## pammex

zara said:


> thanks for all your hard work, but people just need to go on the website to see the progress. Would have saved you lots of frustration. Thanks though.



You are welcome Zara but I think webcams can be altered, and there were many, some time back who were questioning its validity.  I had promised to take actual photos while there, so despite my frustration it was worth it to me to help out other Tuggers, who have in past helped me so much.  

My frustration was in my own lack of knowledge in posting the photos and in a corrupted or faulty SD card.  

I am sure I am far less frustrated than all of the Tuggers who have laid out good money and have been waiting so long for this dream to happen.  My frustration is nothing compared to what I am sure they are going through.  

To all the Tuggers who helped me in past...thank you...this is the best group f people I have encountered on a website and I am involved in many.  Thanks.

Best wishes on this incredible, unbelievable issue with Belair.


----------



## pammex

Blondie said:


> Nice website, but I wish people would learn how to spell "accommodations" correctly. Attention to detail is important, even if it is only spelling. After all, how hard is it to use spellcheck?



If per chance I have done this, gee I am sorry.  I am a very poor typist and usually trying to do so much at once...I have to say I am one of those who does not use a spellcheck ( by the way apparently I just noticed my machine does do spellcheck on its own, many times I ignore it as many times I am typing in two languages etc.  ) but just noted spell check is underlined, must be two words.......LOL 

Think it is a minor issue considering the seriousness of this whole Belair thing!


----------



## Karen G

pammex said:


> If per chance I have done this, gee I am sorry.


I think the poster who mentioned the spelling error was referring to the Belaire website where they do indeed misspell "accommodations."


----------



## Mule

Why  can't I post a reply to all the lies that your members post?:ignore:


----------



## Mule

Sorry Bruce but Tug will not let me post any negative report.  Im sure its because it will show all the deceit that some tug members have been posting about the Belaire.


----------



## Mule

Bruce, It seems that you are staring to have an open mind to some logic.  If you wish email me and I would be happy to inform you of as to the names and problems with several projects in PV.  Lots worse than the Belaire.  As for tug, they are bias and very scared of the truth.


----------



## Mule

Blondie, They call me Mule because I run in the no spin zone and when I find brain dead people I like to kick hard.  Congats, you know of one.


----------



## Mule

I attack people who do not know what they are writing about, yet twist and lie.


----------



## Karen G

Mule	"I attack people who do not know what they are writing about, yet twist and lie."

TUG does not allow personal attacks so don't post any.

Mule	   "As for tug, they are bias and very scared of the truth."

The people who have reported personal encounters with the sales people at Belaire or who have personally witnessed the construction or lack thereof have no reason to lie.


----------



## brucecz

Mule said:


> Bruce, It seems that you are staring to have an open mind to some logic.  If you wish email me and I would be happy to inform you of as to the names and problems with several projects in PV.  Lots worse than the Belaire.  As for tug, they are bias and very scared of the truth.



My logic is based on that I own  and have access over 100 timeshare weeks per year and the Belaire contrat is the only contract I have ever cancelled. 

I am so gald that I did cancel that Belaire contract for the reasons stated in the 2 earlier strings.

It seems that you the Mule is backing off on your claim and blaming Tug as the reason why you did not post proof of your claim in the form of a link.

I  strongly doubt that Tug would prevent you for posting a link that may  be of help to Tuggers. You come accross like a deveoper timeshare sales person.


Last year when we tourned in September they said the Belaire would be up and running on or before September of 2008.

It  seems like the SS Belaire is sinking.

Feel free to call me if you are not in Puerto Vallarta between 8 AM to 8 PM CST as I do not want to spend a lot of time emailing.

I belive Pammex and others like like her based on my dealings with the Belaire and my overall timeshare experiance over the past 9 years.

I to dislike the Mayan tactics but Marcos who worked for the Belaire  said to us that he worked as a trainer for the Mayan salesmen. Marcos said others at the Belaire also had worked at the Mayan. In have to belive that they did as they use similar tactics and and seemingly have a very similar MO.

I hope for the people who bought and are on the hook do get to see the Belaire built.

Hopefully  for their sake a lot of progress will occur.

Bruce


----------



## Mule

Bruce I was at the Belaire the day you cancelled.  Because they would not allow you to use your weeks for commercial sale as you do with all your other 100 weeks.  I clearly heard this being told to you and you having a spasm.   My comments are from personal experience.  As another example of Tug members twisting the truth.  Comparing the Empire State building to Belaire is ludicrous.  Empire had 3,400 workers and 5 died.  Constrution was a competition in NY for tallest building, financed by billionair John Raskob and chaired by the former gov.  Much of the office space went unrented and they dubed it the empty state building.  It was not even profitable until 1950 almost 20yrs later.  A handful of you Tug members have clearly twisted information to suit your own unknown agenda's.   Some of your members have posted when they clearly do not have the knowledge to do so.  One of your members even claims the real time camera's are fake and defends a resort (Grand Mayan)that has had to close their US offices because they cheat everyone.  When I point out all the misinformation posted about Belaire Tug deletes it.  Makes me believe Tug is owned by Grand Mayan!


----------



## Mule

Bruce, there is not a link to a report. From partnerships and working with developers in MX.,  I have actual first hand knowledge of projects in PV with severe problems.   Actual experience rings my bell, not the half truths posted from a few Tug members.


----------



## TUGBrian

if you cannot carry on a conversation without attacking people, your posts will most certainly be deleted.

You obviously already know this.  So it should be of no suprise to you when your comments are subject to deletion by moderators.

Complaining about the consequenses of your own actions when you know full well those consequences prior to posting is foolish.

You and everyone else who registered here agreed to the posting guidelines during your registration process.  If you chose to ignore them vs reading them completely, that is your own fault and certainly does not excuse you from breaking the rules here.

further warnings will not be given.


----------



## judy23

Thank you Mule for your candid observation. I have been following this thread since its inception.It is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses.


----------



## Blondie

Mule- Someone once said if you throw a stone into a pack of dogs the one who is hit will bark. I can hear you all the way up here in New England. 

Like many tuggers here, I have no axe to grind regarding Belaire but I do have a problem with chicanery. I love PV and own two weeks at the Club Regina and just assisted my brother with his first MP purchase which we got for $1 on ebay. What I and others here do find staggering is the vehemence with which you protest what is being posted. It seems certain that many promises made by Belaire have not come to fruition- regardless of the pitiful excuses you keep making for the company. Further, it seems you are connected to this real estate venture; therefore, your postings are suspect. The rest of us are just casual observers who have heard it all over the years and now recognize when we are stepping in it. :annoyed:


----------



## SenorOjO

I shared my experience at my presentation at the Belaire in this forum on July 14. Based on the pictures provided by pammex nothing has changed at the Belaire. Like Blondie, I to love PV and have enjoyed the benefits of timeshares. The one thing I do deplore is the  dispicable tactics that are sometimes used at timeshare presentations. The lies and half truths duped on unsuspecting people that are in a vulnerable state because they are on a vacation "high".  I have been to countless presentations and generally can seperate the hyoe from the product. But from what I saw at the Belaire left me with the impression of a true con job bordering on criminal robbery. No way can they offer the quality and size of what is represented in the model unit(which all that see it fall instantly in love with) for the price they are offering and with the terms and benefits they allude to.  I have a degree in architecture and 32 years in the development field. What I saw and was told at that presentation was to good to be true. And you know what they say, if it sounds that way it probably is too good to be true.


----------



## brucecz

Mule said:


> Bruce I was at the Belaire the day you cancelled.  Because they would not allow you to use your weeks for commercial sale as you do with all your other 100 weeks.  I clearly heard this being told to you and you having a spasm.   My comments are from personal experience.  As another example of Tug members twisting the truth.  Comparing the Empire State building to Belaire is ludicrous.  Empire had 3,400 workers and 5 died.  Constrution was a competition in NY for tallest building, financed by billionair John Raskob and chaired by the former gov.  Much of the office space went unrented and they dubed it the empty state building.  It was not even profitable until 1950 almost 20yrs later.  A handful of you Tug members have clearly twisted information to suit your own unknown agenda's.   Some of your members have posted when they clearly do not have the knowledge to do so.  One of your members even claims the real time camera's are fake and defends a resort (Grand Mayan)that has had to close their US offices because they cheat everyone.  When I point out all the misinformation posted about Belaire Tug deletes it.  Makes me believe Tug is owned by Grand Mayan!




:rofl: :rofl: 


All the above in your post is as true as the Belaire being completed this September:rofl: . In fact Marcos  pitched that the Belaire wanted us to do rentals so the Belaire could try to sell them.

The Belaire seems to only hire the Mayan ex employes like Marcos. 

Seeing you could not provide proof on your "claim of a special report" :hysterical: you may not acknowledge that a lot of the sales group at the Mayan like Marcos are ex Mayan employees.

You have IMHO through your posts have lost all of your  creditability.

Bruce :rofl:


----------



## brucecz

[_Message deleted. For the reason why, see the first and last sentences in TUGBrian's most recent post._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


----------



## pammex

Hi Bruce....Just want to keep everything on the up and up so no misunderstandings etc....the pics I posted yes were posted on Aug 15 but they are from July 2008, so about a month old...not that I am sure a month in the scope of this makes much difference...but just do not want to give an leeway for more discrepancy from some...LOL.....

Personally I think a lot of the "guest" posters here should lay out the money and become members, instaed of making inuendos (sp) about them ( the Tug Members)....hmm..


----------



## mterra

I was out of my 5 day window. I would think I could fight it.  I have been looking at the webcam every day.  There actually was visible progress when I looked earlier this morning.  I just looked again and more progress.  I am going to give it a little more time and gamble, even though I remain sick to my stomach.  Actually, this is all I think about. 
I am going to make some phone calls to different places based on info we got while we were there.  I will look into registry collection again, it may have been a while since that post.  They are also suppose to be with SFX.  I will post my findings once I have them.  

Mary


----------



## zara

*Belaire*

I'm with mterra. Progress is being made-slowly, but it is being made. Can someone else write in who is a little optomistic for a change? All this negativity is rather depressing. Thank you.


----------



## Blondie

Zara- Call it negativity, call it reality. Many people here have seen folks separated from their hard-earned money and their major interest is in protecting you and others from suffering that crushing blow. Tuggers are not happy with what they are reading/seeing from Belaire and they are speaking out. Of course we hope for the best for everyone, but the probability of this company following through on their promises is remote. Hopefully, others will be spared this nightmare if they educate themselves and understand how easily they can be duped. That is the purpose of what is being written here, and not to upset those who have bought. But, the good news is that you are not alone and many voices carry great weight, should you all decide enough is enough. That is the power of Tug.


----------



## mterra

In a post somewhere at sometime, the question was raised on if Belaire is in the registry collection.  I called the registry collection today.  Their admission to the Registry Collection is to be announced in March 2009.  Once they obtain owners and have an inspection they will complete the paper work and then they will be on board.
I also have a call in to Make a Wish Foundation.  Was told that if you sell them one of your timeshares they will take the money and donate it to Make a Wish.  There was a plack(?) on the wall from make a wish, I didn't read it specifically, just remember seeing it.  Also a stuffed toy with a Make a Wish t-shirt on, so whatever that all means.  I tried looking on the Make a Wish website to see if I could find donors.  Am also waiting for a call back from them.
Anyway, just my work for the day.  I am glad I found this site.  I do appreciate what everyone has to say, especially those skeptical and their reasons why.  I am taking a risk at this time, and am aware of the consequences on down the road if this is all a scam.  I will be ready to take them on at that time if need be.

Thank you for reading
Mary


----------



## Colorado Belle

Well I don' tknow anything about the Bellaire specifically,
but Mexico and PV in particular is rife with timeshare projects that never get finished and the developer either absconds with your full payment or
ends up changing the development, the units, the MF fees, the amenities and you are kinda stuck.

It's the same with full ownership condos..Aqua is a good example, tho people are finally getting closed, the price has about doubled.

I'm a risk taker, but the rewards aren't worth buying something in Mexico if it isn't already completely finished. Since they don't often do just earnest money until closing like in the states, (instead you are often required to pay in full some 3 years before the things is built)...the amount you might save is eaten up by the delays and the interest you could have earned on the money.

Again, I know nuttin about the Bellaire specifically.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I just received a email from a Belaire owner asking for $500.00 to pursue a class action suit against Belaire.  I was wondering if any other Tug memebers received this email and what do you think about this effort.  I purchased a one bedroom unit at Belaire in 2007.
Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Class Action?*

I see you are a Guest on this website and am curious how you received your email regarding a class action suit. Please accept my apologies if this sounds as if I am questioning you as that isn't my purpose. I would wonder who and how someone got your name? We have received nothing of the kind so would find this pretty suspect.:annoyed:


----------



## Blondie

It appears that the previous poster to you S Sam uses his email as his log in name and that anyone can email him via PM here at Tug or use the email displayed.   Bear in mind Belaire owners, with all the publicized info posted here it would be easy for someone to pose as a concerned owner who is "collecting" money, wouldn't it?? Just use caution folks...


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I totally agree with Blondie that we must be very careful regarding this class action suit.  We will not participate in such a suit at this time but we will keep our options open.  Thanks Blondie for the sound advise.


----------



## Aussiedog

*Step carefully.....*

My attorney-DH has been a one of the lead attorneys in several big national and regional class actions and in those cases no one was ever charged to participate.

Be careful......

Ann


----------



## zara

*belaire*

Does everyone notice that progress is certainly being made? Things are looking good. Have faith.


----------



## pianodinosaur

Mule said:


> Bruce I was at the Belaire the day you cancelled.  Because they would not allow you to use your weeks for commercial sale as you do with all your other 100 weeks.  I clearly heard this being told to you and you having a spasm.   My comments are from personal experience.  As another example of Tug members twisting the truth.  Comparing the Empire State building to Belaire is ludicrous.  Empire had 3,400 workers and 5 died.  Constrution was a competition in NY for tallest building, financed by billionair John Raskob and chaired by the former gov.  Much of the office space went unrented and they dubed it the empty state building.  It was not even profitable until 1950 almost 20yrs later.  A handful of you Tug members have clearly twisted information to suit your own unknown agenda's.   Some of your members have posted when they clearly do not have the knowledge to do so.  One of your members even claims the real time camera's are fake and defends a resort (Grand Mayan)that has had to close their US offices because they cheat everyone.  When I point out all the misinformation posted about Belaire Tug deletes it.  Makes me believe Tug is owned by Grand Mayan!



:rofl: We stayed at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya earlier this year.  I submitted a review.  We do not own at the Grand Mayan nor are we employed by the Grand Mayan.  My criticisms of the Grand Mayan high pressure sales tactics were hardly censored. However, the Grand Mayan is a beautiful resort that is very well maintained.  The Grand Mayan Riviera Maya is truly an excellent exchange. I am submitting a photo taken earlier this year.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Sorry Zara*



zara said:


> Does everyone notice that progress is certainly being made? Things are looking good. Have faith.



I know you would like to remain optomistic Zara but it's really time for you to get busy dealing with the possibility that what you are seeing is just enough for those of you who haven't rescinded to keep the faith. The amount of money this operation has collected should have produced so much more than what you see. What have they done with all of that money?


----------



## brucecz

judy23 said:


> Thank you Mule for your candid observation. I have been following this thread since its inception.It is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses.



So Judy are you saying that you completely agree 100% with the Mules posting posting above that Quote "When I point out all the misinformation posted about Belaire Tug deletes it. Makes me believe Tug is owned by Grand Mayan! Unquote. 

I would suggest you and others use the Tug search feature and type in the Mayan Group and note the many many  negative postings that are posted on Tug about the Mayan Group. 

Or use Goggles search feature today and if you type in "Grupo Mayan complains" you will see Tug postings listed on the first page complaining about the Mayan.

Please post and let us know in a reply post that yours somehow believe the Mules posting that "Tug is owned by the Grand Mayan" 


If you agree 100% with the Mule then I have to wonder and ask you about your agenda as that claim of Mule does not hold up under examination for the 2 above provable reasons.


I looked at your record of Tug postings and note that as many of them are asking for the same thing in regards in to the Belaire.


Then it is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses that would condone and support that type of misleading postings by the Mule. Many of those postings are easily disproved by people that do not have a agenda supporting the Belaire and the tactics used by posters like the Mule.


You and several others as Snappy Sam pointed out feel the Belaire should be given more time as a zara said they are making progress. Most of Zara's posts if reviewed over the past few months are similar to her last posting. 


Judy, please just also answer this other simple question, if after looking other the 3 different Belaire strings has Belaire completely fulfilled even 10% of their promises made over one years time. IMHO the simple is no the Belaire has not.

 But I hope that the  people who have bought ownerships at the Belaire that they end up getting what they were promised. But I am glad we cancelled almost a year ago when we had the chance and not have to deal over a years time of the uncertainly caused by the Belaire huge timetable delays.

I am very glad we are not in the position of worrying what the result of paying over $100,000 like some may have and not cancelled.

Better luck in the future compared to the last year or so to those that did not cancel in regards to the Bellaire. 


Bruce


----------



## zara

*belaire*

Bruce, you are right. I have continued to try to be positive. I purchased over a year or so, so I really don't have any other choice right now. Do I?


----------



## brucecz

zara said:


> Bruce, you are right. I have continued to try to be positive. I purchased over a year or so, so I really don't have any other choice right now. Do I?



I truely hope you and the others will get what you paid for from the Belaire.

But IMHO  some of the most negitive posts that are not dealing with the issues, concerns and questions raised are posted by some of the Belaire supporters.

Good luck to you  and others in your postion in your dealings with the Belaire and we hope you get everything you were promised and paid for. 

Bruce


----------



## Snappy Sam

*You DO have recourse!*

I don't believe it is ever too late to act. We followed the advice on the Belaire threads given to us from Bruce and Karen G, neither of whom had any real motivation other than to help. I believe Bruce truly does hope all who have invested will actually get the benefits someday.
My coneren for you is what you should do next. Don't wait...ACT! You could always push forward the agenda of trying to get out of what has apparently been a bad deal gone worse! Maybe it is late but if you don't act, you will have to live with the consequences of not trying. If that's ok with you then that's ok with those of us who are trying to encourage you to do something. 
I'd take the time this weekend to review all of the recommendations provided on the Belaire threads. You certainly have as great case of not getting what you were promised.


----------



## Colorado Belle

I'm spending a little over 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta in November. If someone tells me where the Belaire is located, I will go to the site and try to get as many pictures as possible to post here. I also tend to be good at 'picking up' information as to what is really going on. That said, it is well known that many developers in Mexico take money up front and then take a powder. And there aren't nearly the same laws in place to protect investors. 
On the other hand, some people would rather wait and see rather than spend more money on attorneys...and that is just a personal choice. Good luck to those of you who have already invested and to those of you who are thinking about investing in an unfinished Mexican project...BEWARE.


----------



## pammex

Colorado Belle said:


> I'm spending a little over 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta in November. If someone tells me where the Belaire is located, I will go to the site and try to get as many pictures as possible to post here. I also tend to be good at 'picking up' information as to what is really going on. That said, it is well known that many developers in Mexico take money up front and then take a powder. And there aren't nearly the same laws in place to protect investors.
> On the other hand, some people would rather wait and see rather than spend more money on attorneys...and that is just a personal choice. Good luck to those of you who have already invested and to those of you who are thinking about investing in an unfinished Mexican project...BEWARE.



The Belair is located in the Marina area...if you go from Bay View Grand I think it is called it is down the street.  I am sure someone can post the exact address.  People in Mexico tend to be very closed mouthed about what is really going on...that is the way things are in Mexico.  The laws are completely different, not even close. 

I am sure you can even find a timeshare street shark to take you to presentation for a few hundred dollars or more. You surely would get a better feel for what is occurring then..

I have not found any developers yet that have taken money and then a powder but I am sure it happens as it does everywhere, but the contract in and of itself is shaky....

This place is not in the unfinished state it is in the not started state!!!!

I guess I can understand those who want to wait and see, as they are hoping and I am hoping for them too....I also can see where they do not want to spend even more money on attorneys  or should I say Notarios in Mexico ( above an attorney), but I believe Profeco is helping people way beyond the resind period. So that is definately an option.  

Boy I tell you if this should actually come to fruition, the units are beautiful and I will wish I'd have bought, but .....my mind says otherwise...


----------



## pammex

zara said:


> Bruce, you are right. I have continued to try to be positive. I purchased over a year or so, so I really don't have any other choice right now. Do I?



Zara, yes you have tried to be positive...things can be slow in Mexico, that is true...but this is a tad much....

You purchased over a year ago well as Snappy Sam said never to late to act.  Contact profeco anyway......it is unusable to you, let Profeco know that, let them know of the promises made in writing etc....

Maybe those of us who do not have money invested at this point are able to see beyond the trees as they say....

I am usually very positive even in bad situations and just trying to help out others, as though it seems not to be so, who am I to know for sure...but many people have laid out a ton of money, and well you should get something for it or take action...believe me when I posted my last pics I certainly was hoping to post something more positive than what I saw..but my pics certainly did not show what some posters were saying had or was happening...so....what does that tell you....

I wish you only the best...I wish Belair would do the best for their investors and themselves by doing as promised....I wish for a lot of things...

I hate to see people lose hard earned money and such in timeshares anywhere as I love timesharing and I hate to see people losing money in Mexico also as I love Mexico for vacations and such, and well this does turn people away from Mexico and timesharing....

I believe someone, maybe you, posted about the web cam pics, do they match up to mine???  Also another person has offered to take pics and post....but how long are you wiling to be positive and look at that half full glass instead of the half empty one!!

Snappy Sam made a great post previous to mine!!!


----------



## hillclimber

*web cams*

I was watching the web cams on their site and the cam on the right refreshes but the guy in it never moves, the cam on the left appears to repeat after a period of time, it seems when the velas vallarta van is in the view of the cam the workers are always in the same place.


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## Snappy Sam

*See the cam repeats frequently*

Wow! At first we thought it was just us and then we realized we've seen repeat web cam shots too. It does seem to be more frequent on the left camera. 
And then some people wonder why we appreciate photos such as Pammex took the time to put up? 
Many thanks for those of you who continue to post photos.


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## Blondie

hillclimber said:


> I was watching the web cams on their site and the cam on the right refreshes but the guy in it never moves, the cam on the left appears to repeat after a period of time, it seems when the velas vallarta van is in the view of the cam the workers are always in the same place.



One of the oldest tricks in the book which, Mule, was why I posed the question several pages ago. I had wondered about this then and, well, here ya go.


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## Snappy Sam

*Fake web cam*

Once again, Belaire sinks to new lows. You are right Blondie...it's an old trick and one of many that Belaire uses to assure people so they won't try to rescind. Those of you who still have doubts better rethink what is best for you.


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## zara

*webcam*

I don't know what you are all seeing, but I am definately seeing progress. They are NOT the same pictures. Try looking again. I do not work for Belaire, and I don't think I am all that naive-so please look again at the camera on the left and you will see progress. Just try it. Thank you.


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## Snappy Sam

*Watch photos and weather*

 We have friends who live in PV who say the photos don't always match. Nor does the weather in the photo with the current weather ass reported by fridneds who are there! We have seen "live footage" with the sun shining when we know it is raining there and vice versa. Not all the time but we've seen that happen. As Blondie said, the oldest trick in the book" and apparently one that works sometimes. Just be careful and reconsider all the advice we've shared with you. It is NEVER to late!


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## Snappy Sam

Just a quick note for everyone.....check and see what your contract says about property development,availablity, and affiliations. Some contracts have that information and other don't have it. Currently Registry Collection does NOT have any updates from Belaire.


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## Jane Doe

*I live here, and work in Timeshare*

Belaire is a disgrace to all the honest companies, which there are a few. By the way, last I heard Nico was moving to Cancun. And for all of you in the forum who don't really know, they are brothers. I do know that they owed their sales people hundreds of thousands of dollars, not sure if all of that has been settled or not. But a little update for you, they are now members of the hotel association for all the timeshae hotels here, maybe when an owner is here they could find some answers there or at least get pointed in the right direction. Also, Profeco is closed here now, in Guadalajara. Any recent purchases contact the consulate, Kelly Trainor is the agent in charge and a big help for every major problem here. As with everything in life, "If it sounds too good to be true...".


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## pammex

I thought Profeco was country wide???  It is closed in Guadalajara..well Belair is in PV, and last I heard they were open in PV.....

Affiliated with HSI, SFX, and RCI.....I believe all of those only affiliate with companies that have available units to offer........so who knows maybe when they have some units to use but as of this moment....I would call RCI, SFX, and HSI  and ask if I were you.


----------



## mterra

In a post somewhere at sometime, the question was raised on if Belaire is in the registry collection. I called the registry collection today. Their admission to the Registry Collection is to be announced in March 2009. Once they obtain owners and have an inspection they will complete the paper work and then they will be on board.
I also have a call in to Make a Wish Foundation. Was told that if you sell them one of your timeshares they will take the money and donate it to Make a Wish. There was a plack(?) on the wall from make a wish, I didn't read it specifically, just remember seeing it. Also a stuffed toy with a Make a Wish t-shirt on, so whatever that all means. I tried looking on the Make a Wish website to see if I could find donors. Am also waiting for a call back from them.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Two Belaire Sites*



pammex said:


> I thought Profeco was country wide???  It is closed in Guadalajara..well Belair is in PV, and last I heard they were open in PV.....
> 
> Affiliated with HSI, SFX, and RCI.....I believe all of those only affiliate with companies that have available units to offer........so who knows maybe when they have some units to use but as of this moment....I would call RCI, SFX, and HSI  and ask if I were you.



Looks like Pammex and "Jane Doe" have information to share and I wonder if you both would mind posting on the other Belaire thread as well. I wish we could figure out a way to have only one. Anyone know how that might be done?


----------



## Karen G

Snappy Sam said:


> Anyone know how that might be done?


I have merged the two threads.
Karen G, Moderator


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## Snappy Sam

*Two threads now one!*

Karen,
You are just the best! We thank you so much as you always jump in and help.   This will save duplication and lots of time for all of us.


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## Jane Doe

Well it is a government agency, so the laws that they enforce and companies inspect are nation wide, but the office in Vallarta closed. Here is a something simple for everyone. I worked there for about 1 week, and the registry collection book that they had was a grand mayan registry collection book. Again if it sounds to good to be true...Plus, the contract was one page, who on earth could cover all the detail in 1 page? It seemed really odd. They were trying to sell it as "private residence club" but if you read your contract you are buying only 1 week and the other 3 are bonus weeks in other words on availablility.


----------



## Jane Doe

I will check tomorrow to see what it is and can take a snap with my phone for you all.


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## zara

*belaire*

Look at the webcam. Come on now, do you really think they are faking that? Lots of people are working right now. Take a look.


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## judy23

Jane,
We purchased 5 weeks not 4weeks and it is in our contract with no mention of bonus weeks. You were employed there one week??? That is certainly not long enough to even set up your desk. I have known for a while that Nico moved to Cancun and was also introduced as Antonio's brother to everyone when we were there. If you take a picture from your telephone make sure the date is on it.


----------



## needavacation

mterra said:


> In a post somewhere at sometime, the question was raised on if Belaire is in the registry collection. I called the registry collection today. Their admission to the Registry Collection is to be announced in March 2009. Once they obtain owners and have an inspection they will complete the paper work and then they will be on board...



I understand that all of us who invested money in Belaire want to have some hope, but I am just thinking logically now.  In 2007, they said that phase one would be finished by January 2008.  It's now September 2008 and there isn't one finished room.  There is no way that there will be a building for RC to inspect in March 2009.  Unless, God lays it on their hearts to stop robbing people and actually build something.


----------



## taffy19

Jane Doe said:


> Well it is a government agency, so the laws that they enforce and companies inspect are nation wide, but the office in Vallarta closed. Here is a something simple for everyone. I worked there for about 1 week, and the registry collection book that they had was a grand mayan registry collection book. Again if it sounds to good to be true...Plus, the contract was one page, who on earth could cover all the detail in 1 page? It seemed really odd. They were trying to sell it as "private residence club" but if you read your contract you are buying only 1 week and the other 3 are bonus weeks in other words on availablility.


I checked the Profeco web site and it is still there.  If you go down the page, you will find the text in English and instructions what you need to do if you want to send a formal complaint to Profeco.  You can still do this after your rescission period has ended if you were defrauded.

http://www.profeco.gob.mx/consumidor/denuncias1.asp#extranjeros
Attention to foreign residents

Profeco is part of the administrative branch of the federal government of Mexico. Seeks to strengthen the citizen's power and enforces the law to achieve equity on consumption relations.

The Department of Conciliation Services to Foreign Residents (Departamento de Conciliacion a Residentes en el Extranjero C.A.R.E.) provides assistance towards solving controversies arisen between foreign or Mexican citizens living abroad that acquire any product or service from a legally established Mexican supplier and are not satisfied with it.

C.A.R.E. assists the parties within free of charge mediation/conciliation procedures, based upon the terms of the contract that consumer supplies.

To start the conciliation/mediation procedure C.A.R.E. must analyze the documentation submitted by the consumer related to the following information: 

1. Complaint letter stating the following:

Consumer: name, mailing address, telephone number and e-mail.
Supplier: name and address as stated on the receipt or contract.
Brief description of the complaint, including the date of purchase, cost of the goods or service, and claimed amounts.
2. Completed complaint form
3. Copy of ID (Passport or Driver's License) 
4. Copy of contract, invoice payment, bills, credit slips or receipts, as evidence of payment.
5. Copy of additional documents available to support the complaint.

The above information must be e-mailed to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx
Or sent by regular mail to:

Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor,
Dirección General de Quejas y Conciliación,
Av. Jose Vasconcélos no. 208, 6º. Piso,
Col. Condesa. Del. Cuauhtémoc,
C.P. 06140, México, D.F.

It is important to stress that all personal and confidential information colleted by Profeco, C.A.R.E., will be considered as non disclosed and protected by our federal laws. 
For further information, do not hesitate to contact us at: (+52) 55 5211-1723 or (+52) 55 5625-6633, or write to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx

The following brochures are meant to be informative:

About Profeco
Take your time when buying a timeshare
Procedure (english version)
​


----------



## pammex

Karen G said:


> I have merged the two threads.
> Karen G, Moderator



Great thanks Karen, you are the best...I was just going to go duplicate my response on other thread but you saved me lots of time.... 



Jane Doe said:


> Well it is a government agency, so the laws that they enforce and companies inspect are nation wide, but the office in Vallarta closed. Here is a something simple for everyone. I worked there for about 1 week, and the registry collection book that they had was a grand mayan registry collection book. Again if it sounds to good to be true...Plus, the contract was one page, who on earth could cover all the detail in 1 page? It seemed really odd. They were trying to sell it as "private residence club" but if you read your contract you are buying only 1 week and the other 3 are bonus weeks in other words on availablility.



I find it hard to bleieve the office in PV is closed but I will check on that immediately but if it is they are located throughout Mexico, so no issue.  



iconnections said:


> I checked the Profeco web site and it is still there.  If you go down the page, you will find the text in English and instructions what you need to do if you want to send a formal complaint to Profeco.  You can still do this after your rescission period has ended if you were defrauded.
> 
> http://www.profeco.gob.mx/consumidor/denuncias1.asp#extranjeros
> Attention to foreign residents
> 
> Profeco is part of the administrative branch of the federal government of Mexico. Seeks to strengthen the citizen's power and enforces the law to achieve equity on consumption relations.
> 
> The Department of Conciliation Services to Foreign Residents (Departamento de Conciliacion a Residentes en el Extranjero C.A.R.E.) provides assistance towards solving controversies arisen between foreign or Mexican citizens living abroad that acquire any product or service from a legally established Mexican supplier and are not satisfied with it.
> 
> C.A.R.E. assists the parties within free of charge mediation/conciliation procedures, based upon the terms of the contract that consumer supplies.
> 
> To start the conciliation/mediation procedure C.A.R.E. must analyze the documentation submitted by the consumer related to the following information:
> 
> 1. Complaint letter stating the following:
> 
> Consumer: name, mailing address, telephone number and e-mail.
> Supplier: name and address as stated on the receipt or contract.
> Brief description of the complaint, including the date of purchase, cost of the goods or service, and claimed amounts.
> 2. Completed complaint form
> 3. Copy of ID (Passport or Driver's License)
> 4. Copy of contract, invoice payment, bills, credit slips or receipts, as evidence of payment.
> 5. Copy of additional documents available to support the complaint.
> 
> The above information must be e-mailed to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx
> Or sent by regular mail to:
> 
> Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor,
> Dirección General de Quejas y Conciliación,
> Av. Jose Vasconcélos no. 208, 6º. Piso,
> Col. Condesa. Del. Cuauhtémoc,
> C.P. 06140, México, D.F.
> 
> It is important to stress that all personal and confidential information colleted by Profeco, C.A.R.E., will be considered as non disclosed and protected by our federal laws.
> For further information, do not hesitate to contact us at: (+52) 55 5211-1723 or (+52) 55 5625-6633, or write to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx
> 
> The following brochures are meant to be informative:
> 
> About Profeco
> Take your time when buying a timeshare
> Procedure (english version)
> ​



Thanks iconnections...you provided great information and tel numbers and such....I'll also get in touch with my contacts in Pv and find out if the office there is open..hmm..


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## pammex

I have calls out to PV regarding Profeco will advise as soon as I know that is of course just in reference to the office in PV....we do have a huge holiday coming so they could be closed for a vacation....we'll see when I hear back..

On the Registry Collection, last I heard was The registry Collection only affiliated themselves with resorts that had units to offer for use....So unless Belair has units March 2009...then I would wonder....that is only 6 months away, we have already been hearing years of finishing dates.......

Be back soon....


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## pammex

Well bad news for PV...from a local "Yes, it did close about a month ago. There is talk about a sub-office possibly opening again in the municipal building in the future but as of now, it is just talk."

This came to me from a very reliable, informed person who lives in PV.

So the PV office of profeco is closed but there are of course others in various parts of Mexico but that probably does not help a traveler with limited time, so I would copy and follow to the letter the information that iconnections posted for now...

My next suggestion would be to avoid any tourist all this aggravation, make sure you research, read and reread any contracts and be sure you really want to buy before paying and signing on the dotted line.  

Go back to your hotel and think about it, the deal will be there no matter what they tell you about today and only today please....

If you are not informed on timeshares and their use and purpose and costs etc...then do not buy...wait ...do research and buy resale if possible....and if not possible then at least be informed first....

And if you made that mistake and things are not panning out as you were told and everything is not in writing you were told then follow iconnections post and rescind....

As for Belair well, what can I say....if you can get out, might be best option at this point, since you can't use and who really knows when you can....if you choose to hope and wait, well I do wish you the best of luck!!!

I have to say if it really comes to fruition the units ( display only, non-functioning) were really nice and I'll be back to check them out, but I am not forseeing that hapening!  Best Wishes.


----------



## missdaisy10

*Belaire Being Sold?*

I have heard from another (unhappy) Belaire member that she has been told that Belaire is in the process of being sold.  Has anyone else heard this?  

If Nico has moved to Cancun, he may be getting the next "project" ready to go.  I fully expect them to repeat elsewhere what they have done in PV.


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## missdaisy10

*My Belaire Experience--Part I*

Background:  We made a downpayment on a Belaire membership in June, 2007.  We waited until early February, 2008, to see if they would deliver on their promises that we would be able to start trading our weeks on The Registry Collection.  When that did not happen, we filed a dispute with our credit card company and tried to get the monthly payments (we did not pay in full but opted for a monthly credit card charge financing plan) stopped.  The credit card company required that we rescind the contract in order to get the monthly charges stopped.  

This letter and the Overview is the first of many sent to the credit card company over the next six months in an effort to get our money back.  I am posting this one (and intend to post subsequent ones) for two reasons:  1.  If you are a prospective Belaire buyer, you need to be aware of what you are getting yourself into before the 5 day Mexican right to rescind period runs out.  2.  If you are a credit card buyer at Belaire (or at any other timeshare property) you need to know what you will go through if you hope to get our credit card company to help you.

February 22, 2008

Chase Cardmember Services
PO Box 15299
Wilmington, DE 19850-5299

Re:  Case Identifiers  _________, _________, and _________

To Whom It May Concern:  

We have three different Chase credit cards.  Two of these were used over the past nine months in the purchase of a Diamond membership in Belaire Vacation Club in Puerto Vallarta, a Private Residence Club (PRC) property.

We have recently disputed a number of charges related to our purchasing a vacation club membership in Puerto Vallarta while on vacation there in June, 2007.  The disputed charges involved two Chase cards, one ending in ____ and the other in ____.  I have talked with your dispute department and am told that the disputes have been linked in your computers.  The enclosed documentation is intended to cover both cards and all of the multiple disputed charges since they all relate to the same purchase.    

At the time of the initial purchase, we knew we were purchasing a future service as we were told that the private residence building would not be completed until March, 2008, at the earliest and December 2008, at the latest.  The purchase involved the use of their Belaire PRC for up to 400 weeks of vacation or the trading of those weeks through The Registry Collection of private residence clubs.  Our reason for buying was to use the Puerto Vallarta Belaire property on occasion while trading most of the weeks on The Registry Collection for vacations across the U.S. and abroad.

Because we purchased at a time when Belaire was just beginning construction, we knew that we would have to wait until after January 1, 2008, to begin trading our weeks for other vacation destinations.  We were repeatedly assured (verbally and in writing) that shortly after January 1, 2008, we would be able to begin trading on The Registry Collection.  This has not occurred—and it does not appear that it will occur anytime soon and may not occur ever.

While nine months have passed since the initial down payment and closing costs were made on our Chase card ending in ____, we were unable to dispute these charges until we could ascertain that the contract and the other representations made to us at the time of sale, and since the time of sale, have, in fact, been breeched.  

We have requested via email that Belaire Vacation Club void our contract and return all monies tendered (all tendered via the two Chase credit cards).  Belaire, and its CEO Mr. Jonathan Tomasello, have not responded to this request.  Also, telephone calls to Mr. Tomasello have gone unreturned.  

I have enclosed a great deal of documentation that chronicles the purchase and the aftermath.  Enclosed are:
•	An Overview of the Purchase and what has led to the dispute.
•	A list of eight individuals either involved in the purchase or who can shed light on subsequent events.
•	A Detailed Time Line of Events
•	Fifteen Exhibits including the original contract, various credit card charge statements, and emails that have occurred between myself and various individuals at Belaire, and various individuals in some way related to Belaire over the past nine months.  

A prudent buyer asks careful questions and expects clear, concise answers to those questions.  This was done at the time of purchase. Significant representations were made to induce us to purchase, and were confirmed in subsequent communications, that are now proving to be false

It is our expectation and hope that the dispute process that we have initiated with Visa through Chase Card Services will make us whole in this matter.  A Visa member merchant is seriously misrepresenting their product and is using their good standing with Visa to collect down payments, closing costs, and ongoing monthly payments for this misrepresented product.  This reflects poorly on Visa and its member banks and the integrity of the whole system is violated if restitution is not made and the deceptive, fraudulent sales practices of the merchant stopped.

Thank you for your attention to these matters.

Sincerely,


----------



## missdaisy10

*My Belaire Experience--Part II.a Overview*

Overview

While vacationing in Puerto Vallarta the week of June 10, 2007, we were approached by a representative of Belaire Vacation Club about previewing their property under construction in the PV Marina area.  At the time, with retirement nearing, we were looking for ways to increase the number of vacations we would be able to take and this project sounded interesting as it was being marketed as a Private Residence Club rather than as a timeshare.    

At the time of our visit, the property was in pre-construction with the only finished building being a beautiful welcome and sales center that also contained two incredibly attractive model suites.  The sales staff was very persuasive and, via incentives, offered us an opportunity to become a Platinum member that we found difficult to refuse. For us, the major selling point was that we would be able to trade our weeks at Belaire (an ultimate total of 400 weeks) on The Registry Collection, a well known exchange service for private residence clubs. 

A contract/purchase agreement (EXHIBIT  I) was signed that, via amendment, allowed us to rescind within 10 days of signing.  We spent almost every remaining days of our vacation getting additional questions answered and were given numerous additional assurances and incentives to encourage us to remain in the contract.  

My major question was how I could be sure that the project would be built in a timely manner since I knew that our vacation trade weeks would be worthless unless/until Belaire had something to offer in exchange.  This was particularly important to us as I was 64  (will be 65 in a few days) at the time and my wife was also nearing retirement from her teaching position.  We knew that we would likely have limited years to enjoy anything that we purchased.  This question was answered by the Belaire representative (Israel Curi Ocampo) providing us with a “Certification of Completion Bond” (EXHIBIT II) which guaranteed the completion of the resort no later than December 31, 2008.  As a result, we ultimately decided to go through with the purchase.

The beginning purchase price was $98,300.00 which was significantly reduced to $46,300.00 via the trade in of two existing timeshares we already owned, plus their purchasing back four weeks of Belaire use for 2008.  (EXHIBIT III).  

The purchase required a 20% down payment which came to $9260.00.  This was charged to the Chase/Mileage Plus credit card ending in ____.  An additional charge of $1500.00 was made to the same card for “closing costs”.  (EXHIBIT IV). The remaining balance became due and payable within 60 days.  At that time, should we wish to finance the balance, we were guaranteed 7% per annum financing with a 5 year term.  

When we ultimately told the Belaire representative that we wished to avail ourselves of the 7% financing option, we were asked for a credit card number that they could charge monthly for the payment.  The first payment of $733.44 was taken from my Chase/Mileage Plus credit card ending in ____ on August 27, 2007.  (EXHIBIT V).  Five additional payments in the same amount ($733.44) have been charged to my other Chase/Mileage Plus credit card ending in ____ beginning on September 26, 2007 (EXHIBIT VI), and continuing monthly through the present. 

I have been uncomfortable with this purchase for some months for various reasons.  These reasons include:
•	I have been unable to get information regarding the trading of our weeks which we were supposed to be able to begin doing in early 2008.
•	I had some friends while vacationing in Puerto Vallarta in August, 07, visit the site to report on construction progress or lack thereof.  They observed very little going on.  
•	The apparent departure from the project of every employee that I had any significant contact with.
•	The discovery that the project has been significantly delayed (if not permanently delayed) by their inability to find sufficient bedrock under the parcel to anchor the piers supporting the towers.
•	The failure of project director/CEO Jonathan Tomasello to return my recent  telephone calls or respond to my recent emails.

As a result, we have put all Belaire Vacation Club related charges to date on the two Chase/Mileage Plus credit cards into dispute.  It may be that this entire project is an elaborate scheme to extract funds (via credit card charges) from trusting visitors to Puerto Vallarta.  Or, it may be that though they initially had good intentions to deliver a wonderful product to their members, those intentions have been (at least temporarily) thwarted by their failure to find stable bedrock to build on.  Either way, we feel that we were induced to contract for services that are not (and may not ever be) being delivered in the promised time frame, and that we should receive a full refund of our credit card charges.  

(The following is a more detailed explanation of the entire purchase process, both during our week in Puerto Vallarta and since we purchased.)

Individuals Involved in our Purchase at Bellaire Vacation Club

•	Adam Przyborowski.  Sales person who made the initial presentation.  I do not believe he is with the project any longer.  
•	Israel Curi Ocampo.  Title on card is Verification Loan Officer Manager. (see Exhibit VII).  He was involved in the initial purchase agreement document signing.  We spent several hours in his office over the next seven days getting additional answers to our questions and he arranged for several additional concessions to keep us from rescinding the contract.  He was also the person to whom I directed my initial email questions related to trading our weeks in 2008.  He seemed to mysteriously disappear from the radar in later 2007.  When I recently asked for him when calling the main Belaire telephone number, I was told by “Carla” that he was no longer with the project.  
•	Dorota Antoszkiewicz.  At the time of purchase, Dorota appeared to be Israel Curi Ocampo’s assistant.  When he needed something typed or changed, he would give it to her.  She was the person who contacted us when it became time to either pay for the purchase in full or avail ourselves of the 5 year-7% financing option.  In her email response to me on 8-26-07, she identified herself  as “Verification Loan Officer Manager”.  She apparently took Isreal Curi Ocampo’s position.  When I recently asked for her when calling the main Belaire telephone number, I was told by “Carla” that she was no longer with the project.  
•	 Antonio (Tony) Copella.  Title on card is International Relations.  (see EXHIBIT VII).  Mr. Copella claims to originally be from Las Vegas where he claims his family has long term involvement in the gaming industry including management contracts at the Rio and others.  On the day of the initial signing of the purchase agreement (6-12-07) we were told that Mr. Copella was in Las Vegas with his cousin playing in a golf tournament.  We met him the following day.  Visually, he was the person in charge at the sales center.  All the employees seemed to defer to him including Israel Curi Ocampo.  Mr. Copella was recently unavailable when I attempted to reach him.  “Carla” said he was “with a customer”.
•	Nico Bonanto.  Also has the title of International Relations on his card.  (EXHIBIT VII)  Also claimed to be from Las Vegas.  He was represented as Tony Copella’s cousin; seemed to be Mr. Copella’s right hand man.  I do not know if he is still at Bellaire.
•	Marcos Vazquez.  His card title was “Real Estate Broker”.  (see EXHIBIT VII).  He was presented to us as the one who would be our “personal concierge” at Belaire.  We were to contact him ahead of any visit and he would have everything that we needed arranged for.  We were also to contact him if we needed to do any trading of our weeks into other properties.  It is my belief that he is no longer with the Belaire project.
•	 Jonathan James Tomasello.  Mr. Tomasello’s signature shows up on some of the loan documents with title’s like “Project Director” and “Director”.  His title on one email (EXHIBIT VIII) is “CEO”.  I have never met or spoken with Mr. Tomasello.  He has not responded to my recent email requesting the termination of our contract and the refund of all monies tendered to date.  When I recently tried to reach him via telephone, I was told by “Carla” at Belaire that he was in Mexico City and would return my call.  I have yet to hear back from him.   
•	xxxxxxx.  Mr. xxxxxx is a fellow Belaire member from Atlanta, GA, who I met the week we were visiting the property.  He is a general contractor currently invested in Mexican real estate projects.  I have stayed in touch with Mr. xxxxxx since he often visits Puerto Vallarta and is in contact with others close to the Belaire project.  One of his emails is attached as an exhibit in which he estimates that Belaire will not be built, at best, before the end of 2009.
•	Elizabeth Hawrylkiewicz.  Ms. Hawrylkiewicz works for The Registry Collection, the best know trading company for Private Residence Clubs.  The Registry Collection toll free number is 800-548-2300.  She has confirmed that Belaire Golf Resort and Spa is not a member of TRC and that other Belaire members like myself have been calling them regarding the trading of their Belaire weeks.  She indicated that we would not be able to trade our Belaire weeks until Belaire becomes a member of TRC, supplies them with a list of Belaire members, and has an inventory to trade.


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## missdaisy10

*My Belaire Experience--Part II.b Overview (cont)*

Detailed Time Line of Events
June 11, 2007: We are approached by a representative of Belaire Golf Resort and Spa to attend a presentation of their property.  The initial contact is made  across from                                                                                                                                                                                  the Westin Regina Hotel in Marina Vallarta.  We are offered $400.00 USD to attend the presentation.  We are told this is a very high end project—a private residence club rather than a timeshare.  
June 12, 2007:  We are picked up by taxi and driven to the Belaire project location.  The sales building is still under final finishing construction but is beautiful.  We are introduced to the Private Residence Club concept, shown the newly completed models, and asked if we are interested.  Because we are looking for ways to have extended weeks of vacation in Mexico, the U.S., and other parts of the world, and because the Belaire plan offers up to 400 weeks of vacation at PRC’s, claims to have several other projects on the drawing board, and offers exchange privileges with other PRC’s, we express our interest.  We ultimately sign a contract to purchase a Diamond Membership Executive Suite  (see EXHIBIT I).  Please note the following:
•	The initial quoted price of $98,300 is reduced by credits for our two existing timeshare properties ($18,000 for _____________ and $26,000 for _________) and and the additional buyback of the four 2008 weeks at Belaire for $8,000.  This reduces the actual purchase price to $46,300.  
•	We put the 20% downpayment and the $1500 in closing costs and membership in the exchange program on one of our Chase/Mileage Plus credit cards.
•	We are given 60 days to either cash out the contract or roll it over to their 5 year, 7% financing program.
•	We are given 10 days in which we can rescind the contract.
•	 We are guaranteed the right to bring our pets with us for any stay at any of the Belaire properties.  

June 13-18, 2007:  Because we are unsure of our purchase, we return to the property almost daily for the rest of our vacation to get our questions answered and to attempt to reassure ourselves regarding the purchase.  Most of our time is spent with Isreal Curi Ocampo getting our questions answered.  These questions fell into two categories.  
•	How can we be sure that this project is legitimate, will be built, and will be built in a timely manner?  Answer:  We have finished Phase I, the sales center.  Phase II, the first tower, will be completed in 2008.  This is guaranteed by a $37 million Completion Bond (Exhibit II) that 106 units will be finished and ready for occupancy by January 1, 2009.
•	What do we do about vacationing in 2008?  We have traded in to you our two timeshares and our purchase from you includes you buying back the foru 2008 weeks.  What can be done here?  Answer:  First, we allow you to accelerate the use of your weeks off the back end of the contract.  You will be able to trade your yr. 2032 Belaire weeks for vacation weeks in 2008.  Also, we have decided (this one on June 15th) that we will return to you your Casa Dorada property without deducting the credit.  This was included in the actual contract on June 15th and designated as a special Diamond Member grant.  

  June 28, 2007: An email (EXHIBIT VIII) is sent to Israel Curi Ocampo delineating our 2008 vacation plans and requesting instructions as to how we might begin using some of our Belaire weeks to meet those needs.  His reply, received two days later, included the following:  
•	We will not be able to setup your next trip until January 1, 2008.
•	We will send you the Resort directory so that you can check destinations available and know how to trade into them.  (No resort directory has been received to date).
•	I will note the account so that you can in January get what you requested.  

July 22, 207:  An email (EXHIBIT IX) is sent to Israel Curi Ocamp asking how to implement the 7% financing option, who will actually carry the financing, and how construction is going.  His reply, received the same day, included the following:
•	Financing is actually carried by Monterey Financial Group in California.  (The financing is not ultimately through Monterey Financial Group but is done by Belaire calculating a monthly payment amortized over 60 months at 7% and charging it to our credit card.  Is this an acceptable Visa practice?)
•	Construction on the first tower will start in two weeks.  (It still hasn’t started).
•	The first tower will be completed by March, 2008.  (Obviously, it won’t be completed anywhere near that date).

  August 26, 2007:  An email (EXHIBIT X) is received from Dorota Antoszkiewicz at Belaire requesting credit card information to set up a monthly credit card charge to cover the 5%, 5 year (60 monthly payments) balance on the contract.  

October 25, 2007:  An email newsletter (EXHIBIT XI) is received from Dorota Antoszkiewicz/Jonathan Tomasello updating us on the Belaire project.  Of note in the newsletter are the following:
•	The onsite restaurant will soon be open.  (I don’t think it is open yet.)
•	They were able to start construction on the towers on October 10, 2007.  (They can’t really start construction unless/until they find enough bedrock under the site to anchor the towers and that has not yet been found.)
•	They have a new construction partner.  (What happened to the old one?)
•	We will be receiving our Exchange Partner guide in a few more weeks.  (It is now 15 weeks later and no guide has yet to be received)
•	Dorota Antoszkiewicz is no longer with Belaire.

December 7, 2007:  An email response is received from Dorota Antoszkiewicz in response to my email of December 6th (EXHIBIT XII).  Items of note in her response are:
Exchange reservations will be available in 2008 through The Registry Collection and suggests I go to The Registry Collection web site to look at their locations.  (Problems):  1. We cannot trade on The Registry Collection unless we are registered members.  
2.  Our resort is the only one that can register us.  
3.  You cannot trade on The Registry Collection unless you have inventory to trade at your home resort. 
4.  Belaire has no tradeable inventory at this time and is not likely to have any in the foreseeable future.  
5.  Several of the PRC resorts on The Registry Collection website are shown as still “under construction”.  Belaire does not show up in The Registry Collection as a member location, even one “under construction”.  
6.  Belaire does not appear to be a current member of The Registry Collection.
7.  In a telephone call with Elizabeth Hawrylkiewicz at The Registry Collection I have learned the following:
•	There have been conversations between TRC and representatives at Belaire.
•	Belaire is not currently a member of The Registry Collection.
•	Other Belaire members are calling The Registry Collection to inquire if they can begin trading their weeks (Ms. Hawrylkiewicz says she personally has talked to at least 10 Belaire members).

January 28, 2008:  I send an email to Dorota Antoszkiewicz asking for an update on construction progress and also inquiring as to when and how I can begin trading my weeks.  No response has ever been received to this email.  (EXHIBIT XIII)

February 8, 2008:  I learn through another Belaire member, Steven Dieter,  that construction has been halted because they cannot find enough bedrock below the parcel to anchor the piers  that they need to support the towers and that best, construction will not be completed until the end of 2009.  (EXHIBIT XIV)  

February 8, 2008:  I attempt to contact the people I know at Belaire by telephone to verify the information that I have received regarding the halt in construction.  I am told by someone identifying her self as “Carla” that Israel Curi Ocampo and Dorota Antoszkiewicz no longer work there, that Tony Capello is with a customer and not available, and that Jonathan Tomasello is in Mexico City on business and will not return for several days.  I give Carla my contract number (she seemed to have it) and my cell phone number and ask that Mr. Tomasello return my call.  To date, he has not responded to my request.

February 8, 2008:  I contact Chase Bankcard Services and start the dispute process on all Belaire charges to credit card ending in ____.  I also request that all future recurring Belaire charges be stopped.

February 11, 2008:  I email Mr. Tomasello (EXHIBIT XV) and request that they void my contract and credit all monies tendered to date back to my credit card.  I have yet to hear anything from Mr. Tomasello. 

February 18, 2008:  I contact Chase Bankcard Services and start the dispute process on all Belaire charges to credit card ending in 3888.  




•	

List of Attached Exhibits
EXHIBIT I:  The Purchase Agreement/Contract—The contract is somewhat confusing consisting of the agreement itself; annexes 1,2, and 3; annexes A, B, and C; additional Diamond Membership “grants” given to us specifically to induce us to sign and then to not rescind the contract; a copy of the promissory note; a picture of the first tower to be completed; floor plans for the units; a list of acknowledgements/understandings regarding the project.  Also included was information on three Cancun properties that Belaire supposedly had some kind of trading rights with though this was never made clear. 

EXHIBIT II: The Certificate of Completion Bond—Please note the following: 
•	This Certificate of Completion Bond was presented to me to alleviate my fears about the project not being completed in a timely manner. 
•	The completion bond guarantees the completion of the project by December 31, 2008.
•	Jonathan James Tomasello is the signatory for World Resort Marketing Enterprises, the company that is building the project. 
•	
EXHIBIT III:  The Initial Accounting Worksheet

EXHIBIT IV:  Credit Card Bill (for period 5/23/07-6/22/07) for Card Ending in ____

EXHIBIT V:  Credit Card Bill (for period 8/23/07-9/22/07) for Card Ending in ____

EXHIBIT VI:  Credit Card Bill (for period 9/07/07-10/06/07) for Card Ending in ____

EXHIBIT VII:  Business Cards of Various Belaire Individuals

EXHIBIT VIII:  Email from Belaire dated 6/30/07 promising that we will be able to begin trading our weeks in January, 08.

EXHIBIT IX:  Email from Belaire dated 7/22/07 indicating two things.
•	Financing will be done by Monterey Financial Group (It ended up being done on our credit cards).
•	The completion date of the first tower will be March, 2008.

EXHIBIT X:  Email of 8/26/07 from/to Belaire setting up the credit card financing arrangement.

EXHIBIT XI:  Email Newsletter from Belaire dated 10/25/07—Please note the following:
•	The email newsletter promises that we will be receiving our Exchange Partner guides within a few more weeks.  As of writing, these have not been received.  
•	The newsletter is from Jonathan James Tomasello, CEO.

EXHIBIT XII:  Email from Belaire dated 12/07/07 indicating our travel options will be with The Registry Collection and that they will be available in 2008.

EXHIBIT XIII:  Email to Belaire dated 1/28/07 asking for an update on construction and notifying that we want to start using our weeks to trade.  No reply has ever been received to this request.

EXHIBIT IV:  Email dated 2/07/08 from ________, an Atlanta builder and Belaire member who travels frequently to Puerto Vallarta on business, indicating that Belaire will be completed (at best and if at all) near the end of 2009 because of the setbacks related to finding bedrock below the property.

EXHIBIT XV:  Email dated 2/11/08 to Mr. Jonathan Tomasello at Belaire  requesting the voiding of our contract and the return of all monies tendered to date.  No response has been received to this email.


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## brucecz

Marcos Vazquezas of September 6, 2008  was still sellling at the Belaire.

When we had to unfortunately return one week early from PV on September 9, 2008 and  we talking to a couple  at the airport and they said they had bought a one week package from Marcos for $10,000.

I pointed out that on the Belaires web that ad was copyed righted back in  2005 and little  building progress has been made in those 3 years. 

I was very happy to direct them to this string on Tug and told them to do the same thing that Snappy Sam did and make at least 3 copies of their recission. They said they would and recind in the prompt legal manner needed.

So if Marcos or maybe the Mule have not received word of the recission send by Certified letter that requires a signature, they soon will. That couple was going to contest the credit card payment and mail  Profecto with their recisson.

We were  happy to save  that couple all of the problems of dealing with the Belaire and probable lost of $10,000.

Also in regards to the  Private Residence Club concept promises  that the  Belaire has not kept. Marcos made the same unfullfilled promises in regards that the Belaire was at that time affillated with Trading Places Internation for exchanges.

Here is a link to TPI's reply on the Tug Ask TPI were TPI refutes another one of Marcos flase claims.  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64978

I feel so very sorry for the people who have money in the Bellaire as the months have passed and have become  about 3 years  of selling as per copyright on the Belaire website, and none of the major contract promises have been kept up to this point.

If the Belaire is being sold the Vacation Club contracts wording on our Belaire Vacation Club contract make us so very, very gald that we recinded in time in September of 2007 while we were still in PV.

Those of you who "traded in some of your timeshares" to the Belaire may want to check and see if those ownerships are still in your name and that you are still liable for maintenance fees.

Good luck to all you have spent money with the Belaire and who did not recind.

Bruce


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## missdaisy10

*Marcos at Belaire*

Marcos was at Belaire, then gone from Belaire (fired is what I was told), and recently I have heard that he is back.  The day we bought he was playing the role of "personal concierge".  

The sales people seem to come and go and some come back again during the next prime sales season. 

When we purchased in June, 2007, Belaire was too new to show up on this site or anywhere else on the internet (other than their own web site which, of course, was a complete fabrication).  I know, because when I left Belaire on purchase day 1, I went immediately to an internet cafe in the Marina and tried to research the project and the principals.  Couldn't find anything.  The poor schmucks buying Belaire today at least can find all kinds of warning if they do a search.  If they choose to go ahead, they at least have been forewarned.  If they choose to get out, there is ample instruction as to how to rescind within the five day period.

I do think that Belaire PV's days are numbered now that their cover has been blown.  That's why I find the rumors that Nico has gone to Cancun and that Belaire is being sold to be so interesting.  Now that this cash cow is going dry, they are going to have to build another one.

I know some of the members are trying to organize and hire an PV attorney to go after Antonio, et al, to get their money back.  I have not participated in this as I have no hope that, even if they get a judgement in their favor, there is anything monetary remaining (that they will be able to find).  Antonio is too smart to leave anything of value that they can go after.  

I still get emails on occasion from other members.  One is trying to get everyone to "shut up" because the bad publicity lessens the chance that the project will ever be completed.  I am not going to keep my mouth shut because (1) I decided months ago to take my losses and move on, and (2) I don't want other unwary visitors to PV to get sucked into this thing and get fleeced like we were.


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## brucecz

missdaisy10 said:


> I know some of the members are trying to organize and hire an PV attorney to go after Antonio, et al, to get their money back.  I have not participated in this as I have no hope that, even if they get a judgement in their favor, there is anything monetary remaining (that they will be able to find).  Antonio is too smart to leave anything of value that they can go after.
> 
> I still get emails on occasion from other members.  One is trying to get everyone to "shut up" because the bad publicity lessens the chance that the project will ever be completed.  I am not going to keep my mouth shut because (1) I decided months ago to take my losses and move on, and (2) I don't want other unwary visitors to PV to get sucked into this thing and get fleeced like we were.



First, I agree that the way some of the contracts were written that with loopholes  that they we not be able to recover any money even if a suit was sucessfull.

Secondly, some of those  sending you emails as So called members may not be people who bought at the Belaire but  maybe work for the Belaire. 

In one of the first 2 Belaire strings one poster who claimed to have bought at the Belaire and said they were in the US email address was found to be from PV. 

Bruce


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## pammex

missdaisy10 said:


> I have heard from another (unhappy) Belaire member that she has been told that Belaire is in the process of being sold.  Has anyone else heard this?
> 
> If Nico has moved to Cancun, he may be getting the next "project" ready to go.  I fully expect them to repeat elsewhere what they have done in PV.



Oh my......I hate to hear this.....I do not have a contract as I did not buy but I believe one of my hubby's ?'s was regarding something either in contract or said in regards to if Belair was sold..and it did not sound good to him..his words were ( my hubby's), so "in essence if it was sold, we would own nothing".  I'll recheck with hubby and get back with more info if possible.  ( he is in states and well was/ is scheduled to fly thru Houston which is closed, so working on it).  

We were also told that the next development would be Cancun and then they would do another and another, so you should join the band wagon.....we did not...obviously!

Oh, for the buyers this is really bad news.....another bad news thing is you all really need profeco behind you. ( It is Nationwide, that includes Cancun).   Lawyers are one thing in Mexico, Notarios are above them and frankly the laws are different here, and I forsee a long, expensive battle from foreigners with possible no results. Who can you trust?  You do not live here?  Who does Belair have affiliation with?  Will you just be paying and paying and paying on top of your loss already?   I am sure any monies and such are well gone or hidden.  We were told of many things when there ie: offshore accounts..funding from unaffiliated sources, oh it was just all over the field with frankly bull...Mexico is a land of no time....do you realize the timeframe you could be looking at.....more than a few years, maybe more like decades of years.  I do not really know this for fact but I will tell you when you put a foreigner up with a national, who do you think will win and if you shoudl win, what will there be t win and will your costs be beyond what you even paid already...not trying to be negative....this is just the reality as I see it and my distress over this newest bit of news has really upset me for all who are involved.  

There are so many loopholes in the contracts from what we saw, and the one we saw was many, way too many pages, to the point of being ridiculous.

An owner should immediately contact Belair and see what they say?  Also contact Profeco regarding this new news, JMHO.

This is disturbing news to me, I was so hoping to be wrong about all this!!!


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## missdaisy10

*An Owner Should Immediately Contact Belaire?*

Panmex, you say "An owner should immediately contact Belaire and see what they say."  Since when has anything they say meant anything?  They lie...then lie...then lie some more.  As with all habitual liars, their lies have led to so many contradictions that no one really knows what the truth is.  Their stories and statements are all self serving to keep the myth alive just a little bit longer so that they can make one last sale.  How can you tell when they are lying?  "When their lips are moving..."


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## pammex

missdaisy10 said:


> Panmex, you say "An owner should immediately contact Belaire and see what they say."  Since when has anything they say meant anything?  They lie...then lie...then lie some more.  As with all habitual liars, their lies have led to so many contradictions that no one really knows what the truth is.  Their stories and statements are all self serving to keep the myth alive just a little bit longer so that they can make one last sale.  How can you tell when they are lying?  "When their lips are moving..."



Oh I totally agree with you but I just think anytime something comes up you or the buyers should confront it with Belair and then post the replies, you may find differing replies etc.. once again showing the discrepancies. A response one person may get and share, may help another who knows, even though we already know it will all be contradictions......

Plus the more posts and such the more aware people may become and less likely to get caught....as so many did...I am sorry if I upset you I am just trying to help in whatever way I can to prevent so much loss to others....


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## brucecz

mterra said:


> I was out of my 5 day window. I would think I could fight it.  I have been looking at the webcam every day.  There actually was visible progress when I looked earlier this morning.  I just looked again and more progress.  I am going to give it a little more time and gamble, even though I remain sick to my stomach.  Actually, this is all I think about.
> I am going to make some phone calls to different places based on info we got while we were there.  I will look into registry collection again, it may have been a while since that post.  They are also suppose to be with SFX.  I will post my findings once I have them.
> 
> Mary



Mary, you can ask sfx. Here is a link.  http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/

Note my post to TPI posted  on Tug ask TPI and TPI's reply stating that the Belaire was incorrect saying the Belaire was with TPI. Here is that link
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64978

IMHO you should try and recind by contacting Profeco as some had been able to get out of Mayan contracts well after the 5 day right of recission time period had passed.

Bruce


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## Jane Doe

For the people thinking of hiring a lawyer, I would not. I would follow the advice of pammex on the 14 sept. Not only will it cost you a fortune, but the guy will be paid by belaire, or in the end possibly the judge. Regardless of how wrong they are they will win, they have more power, and for sure more money and that, I am sorry to say is how things work here. You should contact Perfeco for sure regardless of how long it has been. And as far as nailing Antonio, if that is even his real name, because I had heard it had been changed at least once before, forget it. The company is not in his name, and he is not even listed anywhere in the papers as project manager, director or whatever. Someone named Jason is though. I saw his immigration file, about 3inches thick. Plus, I have heard that the money they have coming from off shore is orginated in Vegas. So it is a bigger can of worms than you think.


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## missdaisy10

Panmex:  When I re-read what I wrote, I can see why you might think I was upset with you.  I'm not.  The only people I am upset with are at Belaire.  I merely wanted to point out what they are...habitual liars.  Because they are, I am sure we can trap them into more contradictory statements if we try.  But why bother?  They are what they are and they don't really care what we think or what we demonstrate they are.  The depend on "There's one born every moment..." and when the last one in PV runs out they will either retire on the millions they have already foisted or come up with another, even better conceived scam somewhere else.  Besides, they won't talk to me since I am a "former" member who's contract was cancelled and funds forfeited when I dared to file a dispute with my credit card company.  Which is a story for another posting...


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## Snappy Sam

*Please share*



missdaisy10 said:


> Panmex:  When I re-read what I wrote, I can see why you might think I was upset with you.  I'm not.  The only people I am upset with are at Belaire.  I merely wanted to point out what they are...habitual liars.  Because they are, I am sure we can trap them into more contradictory statements if we try.  But why bother?  They are what they are and they don't really care what we think or what we demonstrate they are.  The depend on "There's one born every moment..." and when the last one in PV runs out they will either retire on the millions they have already foisted or come up with another, even better conceived scam somewhere else.  Besides, they won't talk to me since I am a "former" member who's contract was cancelled and funds forfeited when I dared to file a dispute with my credit card company.  Which is a story for another posting...



Missdaisy...Don't leave us hanging...please share the story!!!!


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## zara

*belaire*

The construction is progressing daily. They should be ready to pour the concrete soon, I think. Maybe all the negative people will be surprised come spring. Let's hope so. Many of us have large investments, and want to see the resort become a success. Have some faith.


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## mterra

I called Belaire this morning.   spoke with Paul Diaz.  He is the sales manager and I guess owner's representative, or something like that. He has taken over the role of dealing with members because people were not having questions answered, emails or phone calls returned. Anyway he explained why things have taken so long to get going:  They had to get a separate license because of an american company.  Also there were issues related to money, in that World Resorts Marketing is from the states, so the money coming in was american, not mexican.  The money situation has been taken care of and all licenses are in order.  Once all was finally in place the rainy season started.

He did say that those that have a contract can use their time that they have at another resort.  He also said that another resort of theirs Miramar, will be opening in December.  Miramar is in Concithinas(?spelling) Just south of Puerto Vallarta.  When I was down there in Aug, Marcos was also talking about Porto Fino right there in PV and Punta Mita, which I believe is north of PV.  It might be worth trying to call and see if you can set something up at any of those places.  Even if you don't really want it just to test it out. 

He said he expects this to be completed by summer 2009.  We should notice things going up faster once the foundation is set.  

He told me that information would be coming out in the next couple weeks.  Marcos also told me (last week) that an update would be coming out in Oct. If anyone else wants to call and see what kind of info they get, I would be interested in hearing what is said. 


Mary


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## Blondie

zara said:


> The construction is progressing daily. They should be ready to pour the concrete soon, I think. Maybe all the negative people will be surprised come spring. Let's hope so. Many of us have large investments, and want to see the resort become a success. Have some faith.



Zara- Many here are not negative--just realistic. Believe me when I say NOBODY wants you and the others to lose your large investment. Faith? I think there is a fine line between faith and foolhardiness. You have a right to demand answers and results from these people and they should be held accountable. Believe it or not alot of people here are on you side although you may not see it that way.


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## brucecz

mterra said:


> I called Belaire this morning.   spoke with Paul Diaz.  He is the sales manager and I guess owner's representative, or something like that. He has taken over the role of dealing with members because people were not having questions answered, emails or phone calls returned. Anyway he explained why things have taken so long to get going:  They had to get a separate license because of an american company.  Also there were issues related to money, in that World Resorts Marketing is from the states, so the money coming in was american, not mexican.  The money situation has been taken care of and all licenses are in order.  Once all was finally in place the rainy season started.
> 
> He did say that those that have a contract can use their time that they have at another resort.  He also said that another resort of theirs Miramar, will be opening in December.  Miramar is in Concithinas(?spelling) Just south of Puerto Vallarta.  When I was down there in Aug, Marcos was also talking about Porto Fino right there in PV and Punta Mita, which I believe is north of PV.  It might be worth trying to call and see if you can set something up at any of those places.  Even if you don't really want it just to test it out.
> 
> He said he expects this to be completed by summer 2009.  We should notice things going up faster once the foundation is set.
> 
> He told me that information would be coming out in the next couple weeks.  Marcos also told me (last week) that an update would be coming out in Oct. If anyone else wants to call and see what kind of info they get, I would be interested in hearing what is said.
> 
> 
> Mary



Mary, in my post # 231 yesterday I quoted your posting that you would let the readers on this string know asap if  the SFX exchange company  had any type of  working exchange relationship with the Belaire like the Belaire said they did. You said you would the answer asap, but you must have forgotten to post the results.

So here is the string http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/75854-bel-aire-puerto-vallarta.html you started and were  got your negitive answer from SFX this morning  that the Belaire does not have type of working exchange relationship with SFX.  

Marcos has been saying for well over a year that they had working relationships with the Registry Collection which has been proven to be false.

Marcos showed us a brochure and  also said  the Belaire can do exchanges through TPI but the link on Tug and the TPI  reps  reply on Tug said that was also false claim made by the Belaire.

The comment by one of the salesmen that they were going to move the airport to South PV was amazing. First even if the land was flat the cost would be 100 times the worth of the Belaire even if the Belaire got built.

That area south side of town is a  mountain that is very steep that  comes down to the water and would take Millions if not Billons of dollars to make  level to build on.

In fact that area includes the area is were their “Miramar”is to be built. So Marcos contradicts himself again unless they  are going to rip down "their Miramar" to build the airport.

Those are 4 lies told by the Belaire reps that were easily proved beyond a reasonable  doubt to be outright balant lies. 

I am very surprised that you in your post above said Quote  "He also said that another resort of theirs Miramar, will be opening in December.  Miramar is in Concithinas(?spelling) Just south of Puerto Vallarta.  When I was down there in Aug, Marcos was also talking about Porto Fino right there in PV and Punta Mita, which I believe is north of PV.  It might be worth trying to call and see if you can set something up at any of those places.  Even if you don't really want it just to test it out. " Unquote

Note they did not make the same mistake again  and say they were affiliated with any reputable exchange company, but promised some type of exchanges.  What they may have done was buy some or rent some weeks at a few resorts for inventory promotional reasons so they can say they do have inventory for the people who spent money with the Belaire. They could be worth next to nothing blue like  weeks.

They could promise to have something and then you could be canceled at the last mintue. Remember all of the many promises they have made and then broken or found out to be outright lies.

Go back to the first posting on this string and think about your chances of even staying at the Belaire are based on that ex Belaire employees posting. 

The problem they supposedly had bringing in US money into Mexico and not Pesos is IMHO is  not even close to being believable.  Almost every one who comes in from the US brings dollars and have many places to exchange money.      Mexico needs that investment  money and maybe that is the reason why they let the Timeshare developers do what a lot of them do to their buyers. 

In regards to the rainy season this is the second,  third or fourth year they have been advertising and selling.

Lets not forget the lies about no income  tax  on doubling your money that have been told on  some of the 3  Belaire strings. Those who bought because of those promises were victims of their own greed.


The untruths by the Belaire  being addressed in this posting of mine are just a  very small percentage of the provable Belaire lies in the 3 Belaire strings.


To the ones who are saying do not be negative if a muddy hole in September 2008 after advertising since 2005 is a sign of progress then I do hope it is built for their sake.

But if a person has noted all of the lies told by the Belaire noted in all three strings, IMHO a rational person after reading about all of the broken promises and lies would try to bail even if they would lose their deposit and a few payments..

I am glad after being awed  by the sample unit we  rescinded  our small $5,950. Belaire Club contract  for (supposedly) 10 weeks usage in any size Belaire unit.  We rescinded   last September  13, 2008 one day after our Wedding Anniversary,  and  not have that sick feeling that a lot of the Belaire buyers have posted about. The first post in this string tells me that we would not gotten access even through it was in our contract.

I feel so very fear full for those who bought over a year ago and only have a mud hole at this point to point at as a sign of building progress.

Bruce


----------



## pammex

missdaisy10 said:


> Panmex:  When I re-read what I wrote, I can see why you might think I was upset with you.  I'm not.  The only people I am upset with are at Belaire.  I merely wanted to point out what they are...habitual liars.  Because they are, I am sure we can trap them into more contradictory statements if we try.  But why bother?  They are what they are and they don't really care what we think or what we demonstrate they are.  The depend on "There's one born every moment..." and when the last one in PV runs out they will either retire on the millions they have already foisted or come up with another, even better conceived scam somewhere else.  Besides, they won't talk to me since I am a "former" member who's contract was cancelled and funds forfeited when I dared to file a dispute with my credit card company.  Which is a story for another posting...



missdaisy, yes I did kind of think you were upset with me and I am just trying to help and feel so bad for all of you.  I too am upset at Belair and all the people they have hurt financially and psychologically.
I suggest showing their discrepancies to maybe prevent others from falling into the same situation and also to maybe help in the dealings with profeco and also to keep enlightening those who are being so aptient and faithful which I truly pays off for them in the end...but I have my doubts..BIG ONES!  

You cancelled but forfeited your money??  Pls. share the story with us....I am sorry if you too lost money, but I am hoping it was not a hefty amount, though any amount is unsatisfactory I know.  



Snappy Sam said:


> Missdaisy...Don't leave us hanging...please share the story!!!!



Yes, let the truth be told....share the story....please..



mterra said:


> I called Belaire this morning.   spoke with Paul Diaz.  He is the sales manager and I guess owner's representative, or something like that. He has taken over the role of dealing with members because people were not having questions answered, emails or phone calls returned. Anyway he explained why things have taken so long to get going:  They had to get a separate license because of an american company.  Also there were issues related to money, in that World Resorts Marketing is from the states, so the money coming in was american, not mexican.  The money situation has been taken care of and all licenses are in order.  Once all was finally in place the rainy season started.
> 
> He did say that those that have a contract can use their time that they have at another resort.  He also said that another resort of theirs Miramar, will be opening in December.  Miramar is in Concithinas(?spelling) Just south of Puerto Vallarta.  When I was down there in Aug, Marcos was also talking about Porto Fino right there in PV and Punta Mita, which I believe is north of PV.  It might be worth trying to call and see if you can set something up at any of those places.  Even if you don't really want it just to test it out.
> 
> He said he expects this to be completed by summer 2009.  We should notice things going up faster once the foundation is set.
> 
> He told me that information would be coming out in the next couple weeks.  Marcos also told me (last week) that an update would be coming out in Oct. If anyone else wants to call and see what kind of info they get, I would be interested in hearing what is said.
> 
> 
> Mary



So you are telling me that after ALL this time they needed another license and did not know it nor with all their funds could not push it thru....

American money, Mexican money all the same...money in exchanged every day here...it is not a problem.....that is just totally ridiculous!!!!

The rains started, oh my how unexpected, the rains come every single year at the same time give r take a week....was this a surprise....does Mexico construction stop in rainy season...NO.....you do realize rainy season if from June to Sept. or oct and sometimes into Nov.  That is a minimum of 4-6 months, so everything gets put on hold for almost half a year every year in Mexico...I think not!!!

Maybe you mean Conchas Chinas area with Miramar...a resort that is not according to your post opening till Dec.  What good is that??  It is not open now then!  Porto Fino also can be used well how lovely.  Someone get on the phone and try to book into Porto Fino or even Miramar after Dec.  ( Make sure you are not one of those who is trying to get out via Profeco, as probably if you book or use anything then would null and void any ability to recind , no matter how long ago you bought I would try to recind)

Oh now the date for completion is summer of 2009!  When will the foundation be set?  Will they possibly be able to do that in the rainy season which has not ended yet?    Ah yes I am sure once the foundation in the big muddy hole, once set, then things will progress much faster, until the next problem with money, rain, r who knows what...probably Mexico will run out of cement.  ( I know I am being sarcastic but this really is getting to be a bit much!!!!!!)

Oh an update will be coming out, well that will calm the waters!  I say all members/owners call and see what they are told....this is just the worst scenario I have ever heard of.....I am continually amazed at it all...

Obiviously Mary this is not aimed at you...it is just mind boggling and we , wel I appreciate your posting your info...



brucecz said:


> Mary, in my post # 231 yesterday I quoted your posting that you would let the readers on this string know asap if  the SFX exchange company  had any type of  working exchange relationship with the Belaire like the Belaire said they did. You said you would the answer asap, but you must have forgotten to post the results.
> 
> So here is the string http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/75854-bel-aire-puerto-vallarta.html you started and were  got your negitive answer from SFX this morning  that the Belaire does not have type of working exchange relationship with SFX.
> 
> Marcos has been saying for well over a year that they had working relationships with the Registry Collection which has been proven to be false.
> 
> Marcos showed us a brochure and  also said  the Belaire can do exchanges through TPI but the link on Tug and the TPI  reps  reply on Tug said that was also false claim made by the Belaire.
> 
> The comment by one of the salesmen that they were going to move the airport to South PV was amazing. First even if the land was flat the cost would be 100 times the worth of the Belaire even if the Belaire got built.
> 
> That area south side of town is a  mountain that is very steep that  comes down to the water and would take Millions if not Billons of dollars to make  level to build on.
> 
> In fact that area includes the area is were their “Miramar”is to be built. So Marcos contradicts himself again unless they  are going to rip down "their Miramar" to build the airport.
> 
> Those are 4 lies told by the Belaire reps that were easily proved beyond a reasonable  doubt to be outright balant lies.
> 
> I am very surprised that you in your post above said Quote  "He also said that another resort of theirs Miramar, will be opening in December.  Miramar is in Concithinas(?spelling) Just south of Puerto Vallarta.  When I was down there in Aug, Marcos was also talking about Porto Fino right there in PV and Punta Mita, which I believe is north of PV.  It might be worth trying to call and see if you can set something up at any of those places.  Even if you don't really want it just to test it out. " Unquote
> 
> Note they did not make the same mistake again  and say they were affiliated with any reputable exchange company, but promised some type of exchanges.  What they may have done was buy some or rent some weeks at a few resorts for inventory promotional reasons so they can say they do have inventory for the people who spent money with the Belaire. They could be worth next to nothing blue like  weeks.
> 
> They could promise to have something and then you could be canceled at the last mintue. Remember all of the many promises they have made and then broken or found out to be outright lies.
> 
> Go back to the first posting on this string and think about your chances of even staying at the Belaire are based on that ex Belaire employees posting.
> 
> The problem they supposedly had bringing in US money into Mexico and not Pesos is IMHO is  not even close to being believable.  Almost every one who comes in from the US brings dollars and have many places to exchange money.      Mexico needs that investment  money and maybe that is the reason why they let the Timeshare developers do what a lot of them do to their buyers.
> 
> In regards to the rainy season this is the second,  third or fourth year they have been advertising and selling.
> 
> Lets not forget the lies about no income  tax  on doubling your money that have been told on  some of the 3  Belaire strings. Those who bought because of those promises were victims of their own greed.
> 
> 
> The untruths by the Belaire  being addressed in this posting of mine are just a  very small percentage of the provable Belaire lies in the 3 Belaire strings.
> 
> 
> To the ones who are saying do not be negative if a muddy hole in September 2008 after advertising since 2005 is a sign of progress then I do hope it is built for their sake.
> 
> But if a person has noted all of the lies told by the Belaire noted in all three strings, IMHO a rational person after reading about all of the broken promises and lies would try to bail even if they would lose their deposit and a few payments..
> 
> I am glad after being awed  by the sample unit we  rescinded  our small $5,950. Belaire Club contract  for (supposedly) 10 weeks usage in any size Belaire unit.  We rescinded   last September  13, 2008 one day after our Wedding Anniversary,  and  not have that sick feeling that a lot of the Belaire buyers have posted about. The first post in this string tells me that we would not gotten access even through it was in our contract.
> 
> I feel so very fear full for those who bought over a year ago and only have a mud hole at this point to point at as a sign of building progress.
> 
> Bruce



Bruce has spent a lot of time posting on this thread and shared some invaluable info....listen to him....no Belair is not affiliated with TPI, SFX or Registry Collection.  How could they be they have nothing but a big hole in ground to exchange....

The airport...I was one who was told that...absolutely incredible.....we just laughed...it is a mountain, like the Sierra Madre mountians set over the ocean...really come on.....listen to Bruce, the costs would be atronomical as well as fact that I highly doubt the government would undertake that and then think how long that would take.....we were also told there was going to be 2 airports,  okay that sounds feasible...we just laughed and no the salesman did not like it..but we are familiar with the area and this is all hogwash..the airport is staying, there is not going to be a road thru the military base...

Read and reread the posts...read and reread Bruce's posts from way back....

Oh I to  am so fearful for all of you who bought a long time ago and have only as Bruce says a mud hole for progress...

I have to go to bed now..this whole issue has exhausted me and I have not even invested,but my thoughts are with those who have....


----------



## brucecz

judy23 said:


> Thank you Mule for your candid observation. I have been following this thread since its inception.It is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses.




Judy23, I find your posting  I quoted above and your  complimenting and agreeing with the Mule about the Belaire very interesting and disturbing  in light of all of the proven lies told by the Belaire and their shills.   

When I asked the Mule to post a link to his claim, the Mule said he could not and offered such a transparently false excuse which IMHO is a Belaire MO. I on the other hand have provided links to validate my claims. Here is the Mules post # 164 in this string Quote "Sorry Bruce but Tug will not let me post any negative report. Im sure its because it will show all the deceit that some tug members have been posting about the Belaire." Unquote 

The Mule then does not IMHO respond to the issue raised but then makes another blatant false claim to divert attention that he could not offer proof of that "Special report" he alluded to. 

I do have to wonder about your motives and your agenda in your posting seemingly supporting the "Mules" posting and his support about the Belaires blatant lies that have been proven many times beyond a reasonable doubt to be nothing but lies.

You seemed to have supported his position in your posting I quoted. 

If you are truly a misguided buyer, then I truly feel sorry for you if you feel your support of the  Belaire and the Mules postings is somehow going to fix the problem of lack of progress on the Belaires lacl of real progress.

Were you maybe taken in by the False promise of doubling your money in 2 years that you put into the Belaire,  or having by not to pay US Taxes if you are a US Citizen? 

A IRS agent posted in one of the earlier Belaire strings that if someone tryed to do that the Belaire agents said in regards in not paying US taxes, they would end up having big legal problems with the IRS. What the Belaire said about paying no US taxes on any profit is so transparently illegal.

But do not worry as there will be no 200%  profits in 2 years for those who bought over a year or more ago to hide if you try to sell the contract assigned to you if you were a  buyer of a Belaire contract.

IMHO it is pretty hard  for any one to double their money in 2 years after buying into the Belaire as promised by Marcos  and other Belaire sales people after investing in a 1 year old mud hole.

When we were there a year ago last September there was some dirt moved. In just one years sort time they now have made great progress and now it is  a beautiful mud hole if you like mud holes instead of the promised accomations made by the Belaire.

Bruce


----------



## mterra

Bruce, you are right, I did not follow up on SFX.  I did just find that out yesterday, and that is a NO.  I did write in about the registry collection.  I am also looking into Make a Wish Foundation.  I was told that they support the Foundation and donate money to them. Being in Alaska sometimes it's difficult to get phone calls done and followed up on with time differences, working, etc.  I have other timeshares, so kinda thought I knew what I was doing, questions to ask etc. I guess I am a little more naive than I thought.  However all the ones I have are existing.  This is my first preconstruction, that I doubt I will ever do again.  I have read and re-read all the threads over the last few weeks.  Most of how we "paid" for this was with the idea that we were going to give them some of our timeshares.  So, that is all on hold.  We did give some money, but maybe not as much as others. I am not willing to lose any of my timeshares to them, but had considered an "exchange."  So, all is on hold and I will see what comes of this.

Pammex: When I said others should call, or see about making a reservation somewhere, it was just because someone else had mentioned different people calling and seeing if the same story was told to others.  So I told the story I was given.

Anyway,  I am driving my other half crazy with all of this.  He will probably take the computer away pretty soon.  

Off to work.  Mary


----------



## brucecz

Mary, IMHO if they did  support the Foundation and donate money to them  IMO it was only so they could use it as part of the Belaire presentation. I think the Belaire may have made a small donation  just for good PR.

Of course what they told you about their support of the  foundation may be just as not valid as the statements about the reputable exchange companies that they are doing exchanges with. 

But even if they did make a donation to the Foundation I doubt it was very  subtstanial. If it was supposely  a donation in the form of timeshares taken in on trade I would be very carefull.

Other Timeshare companies have supposely taken in timeshares on trade, and only when a maintenance invoice has come into the owner does the owner know that that timeshare was not transferred out of their names and they are liable for maintenance  and  late payment  fees. 

Good luck to you.

Bruce   

Bruce


----------



## judy23

bruce,
That posting was weeks ago, and right after that mule was removed fro posting on Tug. Just to set the record straight we were never promised to double our money in two years. We bought and traded in the GM because we no longer wanted it and we spent very little monies as compared to a lot of other members. They gave us $4000 credit right on our credit card for referring two members while we were still in PV.That led us to believe it was legit. As others have stated tug was not a vehicle for us because we purchased before all the negative posts started. I have been in contact with a large number of members and we are communicating all of our concerns. It's unfortunate that the construction has taken so long but if you look at the web cam (which by the way, I was able to verify is real from someone who lives there) you will see that they are getting ready to pour the foundation. I have been actively involved on a daily basis of gathering information as to what is going on and will continue to do so. I choose not to share my information on this forum. It's to the point where all of these postings are getting repetive by the same people. I am not defending the Belaire and their management I am just trying to protect myself and all of the other members who put out a lot of money for this resort. Please don't bother replying because I am finished with this post. Judy


----------



## brucecz

judy23 said:


> bruce,
> That posting was weeks ago, and right after that mule was removed fro posting on Tug. Just to set the record straight we were never promised to double our money in two years. We bought and traded in the GM because we no longer wanted it and we spent very little monies as compared to a lot of other members. They gave us $4000 credit right on our credit card for referring two members while we were still in PV.That led us to believe it was legit. As others have stated tug was not a vehicle for us because we purchased before all the negative posts started. I have been in contact with a large number of members and we are communicating all of our concerns. It's unfortunate that the construction has taken so long but if you look at the web cam (which by the way, I was able to verify is real from someone who lives there) you will see that they are getting ready to pour the foundation. I have been actively involved on a daily basis of gathering information as to what is going on and will continue to do so. I choose not to share my information on this forum. It's to the point where all of these postings are getting repetive by the same people. I am not defending the Belaire and their management I am just trying to protect myself and all of the other members who put out a lot of money for this resort. Please don't bother replying because I am finished with this post. Judy



Quote" have been actively involved on a daily basis of gathering information as to what is going on and will continue to do so. I choose not to share my information on this forum." Unquote

To set the record straight, many were promised to double their money with in 2 years after they bought. If you disagree with that a few have posted that fact on the 3 Belaire strings. Frankly I do not care what you were told  to get you to buy IF you bought.


Judy, you were not shy about "shared" info, your views and your opinions before in support,  but now you want to claim that what you posted is out date seeing you posted it less than a month ago in regards to the Mule and supposed agendas of others who dared to disagree with the Mules postings. 

Of course you do not want any replies that use FACTS to contradict your postings.  The truth is never out of date and the fact is you supported the Mule in your posting and slammed those who did not buy the Mules excuses and false claims  on behalf of the Belaire.

How do you know the Mule has be removed from Tug? I find that interesting that you supposely know that if it is indeed true.  Did the Mule tell you that?


You did thank the Mule on Tug as per quoted below.
 Quote:
Originally Posted by judy23  
Thank you Mule for your candid observation. I have been following this thread since its inception.It is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses." Unquote

So you just posted that you supposedly made $4,000 on 2 referrals for the Belaire. Do you think you have helped your creditability with your last posting admitting that fact?   And you questioned others creditability who disagreed with the Mule or posted about the many  problems with the Belaire?

Is that what mean that Quote "I am just trying to protect myself and all of the other members who put out a lot of money for this resort. "  Unquote ? Buy making more referral money off of others?

Did the Belaire tell you that you did not have to declare that as taxable income seeing you supplyed them a service and were paid for that service?

Quoting you "They gave us $4000 credit right on our credit card for referring two members while we were still in PV. " Unquote.

Thank you  for inadvertently letting on what some of  your agenda is in regards to your getting  several $2,000 referrals from the Belaire. Thank you for your post as it is very clear to me as well as to the motives of some of the responses like yours who defend the Belaires  and people like the Mule.

But what  those supposedly $2,000 referral credits may have been is very similar to a documented tactic that the Mayan Palace uses. They Claim because they are short of rental weeks they will give the buyer a $2,000 or $3,000 credit off of the price if the buyer will give them their first week.

They appealed to the greed and gullibility of the buyer so the buyer will not hopefully  any due diligence until it is to late.  At least anyone that bought from the Mayans in the past year and a half have a timeshare to use or exchange unlike the people who belived the Belaire promises and lies. 

Marcos told  us in September of 2007 that we would be able to use the Belaire to stay at this February 2008. 

In your post above you said you "We bought and traded in the GM" 
Did your referance to the GM mean the Grand Mayan by any chance?

Seeing you posted in another posting in this string that you had the bussiness cards of most sales people at the Belaire including  Marcos a of the Belaire crew had worked for the Mayan Group. 

Bruce


----------



## Great Dane

brucecz,

Why do you feel it is necessary to badger and try to suggest that every member of Belaire that posts on this forum has a motive and can't possibly believe that what they purchased is legitimate?

What exactly is your motive?

I have been reading these postings for about 8 months and finally decided it was time to join to respond to people like you and others that are great with lots of opinions (look at how many messages in this tread include IMHO) which are not backed with facts.

Just so that you don't question my motives.  I am a Belaire member and I did not receive anything when I made my purchase.


----------



## pammex

mterra said:


> Bruce, you are right, I did not follow up on SFX.  I did just find that out yesterday, and that is a NO.  I did write in about the registry collection.  I am also looking into Make a Wish Foundation.  I was told that they support the Foundation and donate money to them. Being in Alaska sometimes it's difficult to get phone calls done and followed up on with time differences, working, etc.  I have other timeshares, so kinda thought I knew what I was doing, questions to ask etc. I guess I am a little more naive than I thought.  However all the ones I have are existing.  This is my first preconstruction, that I doubt I will ever do again.  I have read and re-read all the threads over the last few weeks.  Most of how we "paid" for this was with the idea that we were going to give them some of our timeshares.  So, that is all on hold.  We did give some money, but maybe not as much as others. I am not willing to lose any of my timeshares to them, but had considered an "exchange."  So, all is on hold and I will see what comes of this.
> 
> Pammex: When I said others should call, or see about making a reservation somewhere, it was just because someone else had mentioned different people calling and seeing if the same story was told to others.  So I told the story I was given.
> 
> Anyway,  I am driving my other half crazy with all of this.  He will probably take the computer away pretty soon.
> 
> Off to work.  Mary



You may have misunderstood my post..I am with you I think everyone should call and see if indeed they can get accomadations/reservations.  And also call to see if stories match up....I am with you, and think people should share what they are told etc....just another way to expose the truth, if there indeed does lie any truth in all this!


----------



## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> brucecz,
> 
> Why do you feel it is necessary to badger and try to suggest that every member of Belaire that posts on this forum has a motive and can't possibly believe that what they purchased is legitimate?
> 
> What exactly is your motive?
> 
> I have been reading these postings for about 8 months and finally decided it was time to join to respond to people like you and others that are great with lots of opinions (look at how many messages in this tread include IMHO) which are not backed with facts.
> 
> Just so that you don't question my motives.  I am a Belaire member and I did not receive anything when I made my purchase.



Great Dane, feel free to express your opinions about me while and the issues raised about the  many documented Belaire lies, but please try be more accurate unlike some of the Belaire supporters. 

To answer the first of your questions, no, I never have suggested that every one who posted about their  buying at the Belaire was not legitimate.   Some buyers that were in their rescission period  took our advice and along with their previous misgivings and rescinded one they learned how they were lied to by the Belaire. 

Those who were not able to rescind have posted  the  many valid reasons why they wish they could have recinded.   Whats your opinon on those "Belaire Buyers" who have expressed their "buyers remorse".  Are all of those people wrong who rescinded and the others who expressed  "buyers remorse"? 


To answer your second and last question you asked me Quote" What exactly is your motive?" Unquote

If you have fully read the 3 Belaire strings, my motive and the motive of many others like me is very plain. It is to warn others about not getting suckered by all of the many broken promises, missed deadlines and PROVED outright lies made to the Belaire buyers and to people who did a Belaire presentation over the past several years. That is my simple agenda.


Feel free to dispute the facts contained of any link I have provided in a posting of yours if you can.    I have a feeling that you will not dispute any of the facts contained in those links. 

Now that I have answered all of your direct questions fair play by you would be to answer the direct questions I will ask you.    I did  not  or will claim that you bagdered me by asking me your questions.

What type of package and how long ago did you purchase? Do you claim that the Belaire has kept every verbal and written contract promise made to you?

You seemingly want to control the agenda on this string by saying I badgered Judy23.   Remember she bought up the suject of motives and so did you, but you then post Quote  "Just so that you don't question my motives." Unquote.
Interesting  tactic by both of you.

 I see you like Judy23 seemingly want to question other peoples motives, but you in your frist posting  do not want your motives questioned, correct? 

There is  proof of apparent shills posting as Belaire buyers in one of the earlier Belaire strings on Tug that you said you have followed for 8 months. 

Did you see that posting by the Tug  Administrator about that being a  Puerto Vallarta  IP address instead of a claimed California  home address? 

That  posting had to do with  the Belaire salespeople telling US Citizens that they would not having to pay IncomeTax on any profits made with the Belaire.

The proof is that the shill claimed to be a  Belaire owner living and posting from California when their IP address was identified as really coming from PV. Great Dane what do you have to say about that Belaire supporter  being caught in a blatant lie?


You like a lot of the Belaire supporters have not addressed or disputed one fact that I have backed up by with a posted link.  Your answer to this question is?

Until you address those link issues containing  proveable facts that are unfavorable to the Belaire,  then you might earn some creditability with the long time Tug members. 


In the first two Belaire strings it was noted that there were a lot Belaire supporters who were new posters who made a lot of claims for reasons to buy at the Belaire that turned out to be PROVEN to be false claims.

When the Mule posted something as fact and when I asked him to provide a link of proof of what he said was true, he could not and blamed Tug saying Tug would not let him. His stated reason why Tug would not was proved by simple logic and facts to be wrong.

Great Dane, do you care to comment on that posting were the Mule claimed that Tug would not let him post that link to support his claim?. Read that post of the Mule and if you do not post you disagree with the Mule, then maybe your motives just might become suspect by others.

Judy23 left information  in her post claiming  to have as I pointed out that she made $4,000 from the Belaire.  That was her choice.

Noting that I have a Great Dane I would  wonder about your choice of that  handle seeing I just posted in the past 2 weeks about our 10  year old Great Danes recent health problems causing us the cut short our Anniversary  Puerto Vallatra Trip by 7 days this September. 

Or do you have a Great Dane or are you a Dane? It makes me wonder why you picked that posting name.

Bruce


----------



## Snappy Sam

*To the point for us...*

If we hadn't read thr posts from Bruce and our Moderator Karen G, we would be out over $24,000 dollars! And would have thought we had given up our other timeshare in PV.

So anyone who wants to question Bruce's motivation to share information that is helpful should know that if it wasn't for his detailed messages and replies we would be in absolute turmoil. Instead, we followed all of the advice given to us by Bruce and Karen G. As a result of following their advice we have a letter from our credit card company stating that our money is fully refunded and the case is closed. 

THANKS to Bruce's motivation we sleep at night!!!!


----------



## brucecz

Thanks Sam.

If people go to post number  134 on the string link posted below by the Mule, they might note that they are very similar  in struture  and content to he the first posting of the Great Dane's posting.  The MO's are so very similar.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61301&page=6

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> brucecz,
> 
> Why do you feel it is necessary to badger and try to suggest that every member of Belaire that posts on this forum has a motive and can't possibly believe that what they purchased is legitimate?
> 
> What exactly is your motive?
> 
> I have been reading these postings for about 8 months and finally decided it was time to join to respond to people like you and others that are great with lots of opinions (look at how many messages in this tread include IMHO) which are not backed with facts.
> 
> Just so that you don't question my motives.  I am a Belaire member and I did not receive anything when I made my purchase.



Here for the Great Danes benifiet is a link and the post numbers if he or others want to comment on these issues of the many recurring lies and broken promises and illegal tax breaks promised  by the Belaire that have been reported by some owners  going  back as far as early 2007.

NOT just IMHO but  if you go to the first Belaire string (here is a link) http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52034&page=2 you will find some interesting postings on that string made mostly by others and not me about the many lies and broken promises made to many others by the Belaire.

Great Dane, Post number 43 by Dave M condradicts the posting number 41 on that string from the shill  who claimed to be from San Diego and was getting huge tax breaks, etc by buying at the  Belaire, who's IP address  was really from Puerto Vallatra and NOT San Diego as claimed by that shill.

 Post number 38 on that string is about  a reported  sales offer by the Belaire that sounded a lot better than what you might have bought seeing you said you were offered nothing extra in your post.

Post number 9 on that string  is about the construction as of Nov 10, 2007.

Note my posting number 35 on  that string made on Dec 6  over 9 months ago.  In it I said Marcos said that we were promised that the Belaire would be ready for use by the owners by  August or September of 2008. 

The Belaire is  really going to have to hustle to get it completed in the next 11  days to  fullfill the promises made by Marcos to us when he though he had us hooked to be used by the owners for their vacations.

But even if the Belaire is built the present owners may not get use of it because of the loopholes in varying contracts others on this string have posted their concerns about.

Some of the other posts by likely Belaire shills are so transparent they are almost funny, but do show what lenghts the Belaire will go to sell timeshares.

Bruce


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

You are trying to intimidate me as you did the others.  As always you want to claim I am someone else, I am an employee of the company, or I am not a real member.

This BBS was intended to have people provide their experiences so that others can make their own decision about whether to purchase a particular interest in a property, stay at a resort, to take a trip to certain destinations, etc.  It is not to become your personal mouthpiece for whatever axe you have to grind.  You have clearly shared your views now let others share theirs.   Each time you feel you must have the last word on someones post.  If they ask for feedback that is one thing but most do not.  They are telling their thoughts and whether you feel they are right or wrong that is their own belief just as you have yours.

It is one thing to let people know they can rescind their purchase if something doesn't feel right.  It is not right to tell them that they should go recind because you think what you do.  That comment goes to many others on this thread as well.

My motive is to post my experience so that others can have a different view other than yours and those that I feel you have unduly tainted.


----------



## Dave M

*With my moderator hat on*....

That's enough at taking shots at one another. For all who post here, please follow the posting rules or be prepared for the consequences. This part of the posting rules is particularly appropriate:





> Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behaviour lectures. *Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offences could get you banned from the bbs.* Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behaviour or bad manners.


Thus, you may post your own observations on this topic but you would be well advised to avoid attacking others.


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I purchased an Executive Suite at Belaire Golf Resort and Spa in March 2007.  I am also an owner of two timeshares.  I can honestly say that my Belaire Private Residence Club purchase and ownership has been an extremely positive experience and has definitely proven to me what I had already known, that my timeshare purchases were a waste of money.

I listened to the salesperson closely and saw a clear difference in what they were offering versus the timeshare pitches I had heard in the past.  I was not pressured and as many others have noted, the models are what a first class place looks like.  I have traveled to many places and have seen many alternatives but this is truly unique.

I have paid nothing but maintenance fees for the past 5 years on my timeshare units and each time I have tried to make reservations to go somewhere (even if I give them and entire country and entire month as an option) there is never any availability.  In contrast, I have already booked exchanges and completed travel through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center.

I have visited Belaire Golf Resort and Spa on three occassions this year, the last time being about 3 weeks ago (mid August) and have been treated wonderfully each visit.  I have seen many of the same faces with a few new ones, I have seen continuous work occuring on the construction site during each week I was there and have met many other happy owners (both existing and new).

I have since purchased an additional unit since I realize what Belaire has to offer.  My plan is to retain one unit and to rent the other and eventually probably sell it.

For those that have chosen to retain your membership in Belaire Golf Resort and Spa, I believe you will be very pleased with the final result.


----------



## zara

*Belaire*

Kudos to Great Dane for writing something positive for a change.


----------



## brucecz

Please address the issues as shown in the links provided about the Belairs unhonored and broken promises.


Bruce


----------



## aliikai2

*OK, so how did you*



Great Dane said:


> I listened to the salesperson closely and saw a clear difference in what they were offering versus the timeshare pitches I had heard in the past.  I was not pressured and as many others have noted, the models are what a first class place looks like.  I have traveled to many places and have seen many alternatives but this is truly unique.
> 
> I have paid nothing but maintenance fees for the past 5 years on my timeshare units and each time I have tried to make reservations to go somewhere (even if I give them and entire country and entire month as an option) there is never any availability. * In contrast, I have already booked exchanges and completed travel through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center.*
> 
> I have visited Belaire Golf Resort and Spa on three occassions this year, the last time being about 3 weeks ago (mid August) and have been treated wonderfully each visit.  I have seen many of the same faces with a few new ones, I have seen continuous work occuring on the construction site during each week I was there and have met many other happy owners (both existing and new).
> 
> I have since purchased an additional unit since I realize what Belaire has to offer.  My plan is to retain one unit and to rent the other and eventually probably sell it.
> 
> For those that have chosen to retain your membership in Belaire Golf Resort and Spa, I believe you will be very pleased with the final result.



Get an exchange using them when as of today they have no exchange company affiliations?  

I toured and ultimately rescinded our purchase last November, and almost nothing has been done onsite since I was there 10 months ago, how can you having bought in March of last year ( 8 months earlier) still have such rose colored glasses on to have bought another package???? 

  After following this project for the last year, hearing all the lies, seeing all the shill posters, I am sorry, but none of your post is believable.:annoyed: 

Greg


----------



## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> You are trying to intimidate me as you did the others. As always you want to claim I am someone else, I am an employee of the company, or I am not a real member.
> 
> This BBS was intended to have people provide their experiences so that others can make their own decision about whether to purchase a particular interest in a property, stay at a resort, to take a trip to certain destinations, etc. It is not to become your personal mouthpiece for whatever axe you have to grind. You have clearly shared your views now let others share theirs. Each time you feel you must have the last word on someones post. If they ask for feedback that is one thing but most do not. They are telling their thoughts and whether you feel they are right or wrong that is their own belief just as you have yours.
> 
> It is one thing to let people know they can rescind their purchase if something doesn't feel right. It is not right to tell them that they should go recind because you think what you do. That comment goes to many others on this thread as well.
> 
> My motive is to post my experience so that others can have a different view other than yours and those that I feel you have unduly tainted.



That is your opinon but please address the open issues I have raised by proving links to the proven deporable sales tactics of the Belaire. 

I see you choose not to debate any of the points I raised with the links I provided in some of my last posts.

 Lets deal with the proveable facts  contained in those links unless you feel that dealing with proven facts do not futher your motives and agenda.

I see you also  posted in another posting that you have visited the Bellaire 3 times and now bought another ownership and claim that you will make a profit on it.

WE are very interested in your claim " Quote In contrast, I have already booked exchanges and completed travel through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center." unquote.

Through what reputable exchange company did the Belaire make this exchange for you?

Now remember that some of the Belaire supporters had claimed in the past that they could exchange through 3 differant exchange companies using the Belaire and as of 2 days ago that was proved to be flase with links provided to show they were false claims.


Bruce


----------



## brucecz

zara said:


> Kudos to Great Dane for writing something positive for a change.



Zara, I do hope things work out for you but many who recinded are experianced timesharers for many valid reasons as stated in their postings.

His one posting  number 254 sure sounds like a sales pitch loaded  with sizzle but no provable facts.  My links on the other hand provide proveable facts.


Please note that the Great Dane  has not addressed  or disputed just even one single  issue as shown in the links I  provided about the Belairs unhonored and broken promises. 


 But the part about him being able to make reservations while other owners like you have posted that they can not even now after a years time use  the 3 exchanges companies as promised by Marcos. That claim as of 2 days ago has as I am sorry to say, been proven to be 100% false.

For the record those exchange Companies were TPI, SFX and the Registery.

Maybe the Belaire has rented some weeks from some vendors to use to use in their promotions which is then a bait and switch tactic. Promise one thing but not deliver the exchange companies as promised.


Bruce


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I am willing to address any issue you or any one else have raised or will raise.

Let's start with the exchange issue since that has been highlighted.  Maybe everyone needs a little education about exchanges and how they work.  When you purchase a right to use vacation property, you generally have some number of registered and unregistered weeks or whatever the resort decides to call them.  In Belaire's case they are mandatory and optional.  Your registered week or weeks are those that are your's at your home resort.  You have the option of using that week at your home resort or banking it and choosing to trade that time for time at another resort.  The unregistered week(s) are those that you can additionally use at your home resort or anywhere and do not require any kind of banking.  I am using the term exchange to include both these situations because in both cases you are utilizing inventory from an exchange company even though only in the first instance are you actually exchanging the time.

Belaire cannot participate with an exchange company for purposes of banking and trading your registered weeks until the building is complete and you actually have something to trade.  That should be fairly obvious and has been confirmed by the exchange companies that Belaire has said they have planned to operate with.  However, Belaire can and does have the ability to obtain special inventory from these exchange companies to provide to their users to stay at other locations.  Of course, they have to buy this inventory and it appears that is what they have done.

As an example, I was given an "exchange" at Velas in PV for one of my stays through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center which is a property in the Registry Collection.  On another occassion I wanted to go to Cancun and I had my choice of several RCI member properties.  These were properties I couldn't get through my normal RCI timeshare exchange because it turns out they sell the weeks that get banked out on the wholesale markets so that the timeshare owners can't get them but others can.

So, while you would like to say they have lied about being part of exchange companies they do have inventory available for their members from the exchange companies.  In fact, access to places that RCI could not get for me under my timeshare exchange rights.  And as has already confirmed in one of the earlier posts, Belaire have submitted their paperwork to be part of the Registry Collection when the building is ready.

Next topic please.


----------



## aliikai2

*Your so funny, you come to the education center for trading and using timeshare*

and want to explain to us about exchanges..:rofl: :hysterical: :rofl: 


How did you like the Velas Vallarta? Did you mind the AI, this resort is always available from RCI either as an exchange or a last minute escape, for under $250 per week.

*R*ental* C*ondominiums* I*ncorporated
always has multiple Mexican weeks for rent or exchange. As long as you are talking about understanding trading, most Prime resorts in Mexico are very easy to exchange into with average low cost traders, and the AI resorts are even easier.

If you would like to stick around here and learn how to maximize your existing timeshares, we will be happy to help you.:whoopie: 

Oh, I almost forgot, did you know that the *R*egistry *C*ollection is part of RCI??  

Greg



Great Dane said:


> I am willing to address any issue you or any one else have raised or will raise.
> 
> Let's start with the exchange issue since that has been highlighted. * Maybe everyone needs a little education about exchanges and how they work. * When you purchase a right to use vacation property, you generally have some number of registered and unregistered weeks or whatever the resort decides to call them.  In Belaire's case they are mandatory and optional.  Your registered week or weeks are those that are your's at your home resort.  You have the option of using that week at your home resort or banking it and choosing to trade that time for time at another resort.  The unregistered week(s) are those that you can additionally use at your home resort or anywhere and do not require any kind of banking.  I am using the term exchange to include both these situations because in both cases you are utilizing inventory from an exchange company even though only in the first instance are you actually exchanging the time.
> 
> Belaire cannot participate with an exchange company for purposes of banking and trading your registered weeks until the building is complete and you actually have something to trade.  That should be fairly obvious and has been confirmed by the exchange companies that Belaire has said they have planned to operate with.  However, Belaire can and does have the ability to obtain special inventory from these exchange companies to provide to their users to stay at other locations.  Of course, they have to buy this inventory and it appears that is what they have done.
> 
> As an example, I was given an "exchange" at Velas in PV for one of my stays through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center which is a property in the Registry Collection.  On another occassion I wanted to go to Cancun and I had my choice of several RCI member properties.  These were properties I couldn't get through my normal RCI timeshare exchange because it turns out they sell the weeks that get banked out on the wholesale markets so that the timeshare owners can't get them but others can.
> 
> So, while you would like to say they have lied about being part of exchange companies they do have inventory available for their members from the exchange companies.  *In fact, access to places that RCI could not get for me under my timeshare exchange rights*.  And as has already confirmed in one of the earlier posts, Belaire have submitted their paperwork to be part of the Registry Collection when the building is ready.
> 
> Next topic please.


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

Let's take a look at the construction topic that seems to be another issue of debate.

On this point, I agree that some of the dates that were provided for completion have not been met.  However, I am in high technology and projects often get behind schedule due to any number of unforseen circumstances.  You can call it a lie if you would like but at that point in time that may be what the project schedule indicated.  That fact that it did not happen, you can look at in hindsight as a lie or realize that they were conveying what current expectations were.  What you have to look at is whether there is a plan, what work is or has occurred and whether based on this what and when will something get done.

First, it has been confirmed in an earlier post, via a message and a response from IDOM that they were hired by Belaire and even had a feature on their main IDOM page for a while and then a newsletter article about Belaire earlier this year.  Why would Belaire hire one of the largest and best engineering and architecture firms in the world if they were not going to build a building and were only planning to take the money and run as so many of you suggest?  This type of architectural contract costs upwards of the $1 million range.

Unlike others who have freely admitted they know nothing or little about construction but have faithfully posted opinions about the status of the site, I do know something.  As I indicated in my earlier message, I have been in PV three times this year.  The first time I was there they were preparing the site.  This means doing a lot of surveying and leveling the site.  This is the proper first step.

On the second occassion, they were in the process of putting in the pylons.  Each day during the week I was there, they prepared and inserted one of the 120ft wound rebar meshes into a hole and filled it with cemet.  These are the pictures from the April timeframe shown on the Belaire site.  There were a total of 35 or some number of these, I do not remember exactly to be completed.  If anyone knows the price of steel rebar (this was 1 1/4") and cement you will know that the cost would put this stage at somewhere around $2M including the labor and hourly charge for equipment that was used.

After this they had to let things cure and then they dug the hole for the foundation which sits underground.  And when I was there in August they were working on the rebar to pour the actual foundation that sits on top of the pylons.  They poured the one section of cement you can see on the webcam during that week.

This sure indicates progress to me.  It says that the money people have invested is being spent on what they were told.  It also shoots a hole in all the theories that the web cam is somehow rigged and is not actual.  Construction of a large project does not typically show visual progress day by day.  Watch a house going up in your neighborhood and some days you will see a lot of change and sometimes weeks go by and it will look like nothing has changed but they have been there working everday.

So, to those that take pictures they say show nothing, taht say nothing is happening at the site but dirt being moved from one place to another, they are the ones who have lied to us as members not Belaire.


----------



## Great Dane

aliikai2 said:


> and want to explain to us about exchanges..:rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:
> 
> 
> How did you like the Velas Vallarta? Did you mind the AI, this resort is always available from RCI either as an exchange or a last minute escape, for under $250 per week.
> 
> *R*ental* C*ondominiums* I*ncorporated
> always has multiple Mexican weeks for rent or exchange. As long as you are talking about understanding trading, most Prime resorts in Mexico are very easy to exchange into with average low cost traders, and the AI resorts are even easier.
> 
> If you would like to stick around here and learn how to maximize your existing timeshares, we will be happy to help you.:whoopie:
> 
> Oh, I almost forgot, did you know that the *R*egistry *C*ollection is part of RCI??
> 
> Greg


 
The all inclusive did not bother me.  If you eat all your meals at the resort as I did is is not that bad of a deal.  I realize that for some it is not a viable option but then I was only using this as an example.

I was trying to help those that aren't in the business who don't have the knowledge that you do about how things work.  Yes, I was aware the Registry Collection is part of RCI and what they consider their high end set of properties (some of which are a joke).

You confirmed my point exactly, many companies can get access to the timeshare inventory.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Don't play in to their hands*

I think it is worth repeating that this thread was close to being shut down when Mule got everyone stirred up awhile back. I think it is a tactic once again so that either Bruce gets eliminated from the conversations or the thread gets shut down.
We don't feel intimidated by anyone who shares information willingly through this thread. However, we are glad we listened to those who helped us to get out of a several thousand dollar jam! 
We have fractional ownership at The Residences at the Crane in Barbados as well as timeshare in PV. It's hard to give much credibility to folks who claim to have timeshare and fractional ownership other places including the Belaire who continue to remain "Guests" rather than becoming TUG members. And for those of us who could have lost several thousands of dollars or potentially will lose money it's hard for us to always remember to remain calm. I truly don't want Zara to lose her money nor anyone else.
_I've edited out remarks that could be considered name-calling as I don't want anyone else to respond with personal attacks.  No one wants to shut down this long and informative thread so we all must restrain ourselves a bit and just stick with the facts without any personal remarks to or about other posters. Thanks, Karen G, Moderator. _


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Membership information for Great Dane*

Perhaps you've missed the information on how to become a TUG member. It's only $15 and you can include like most of us have, the list of other timeshare or fractional ownship we have under your name. I look forward to you becoming a member and seeing where you have other timeshare.


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

Let's talk about communications with the resort.  

Belaire has been sending out newletters ever since I became a member.  First, it was about once per quarter and then this year about once every other month.  They are sent via email so if they don't have your current email (and of course if you are not a member) you will not receive them.  Just make sure they have your current email address on file.

I have always received responses to any message I have sent whether it be to the memberservices@belairevacationclub.com or the customer.care@belairevacationclub.com email addresses.  Those of you that have indicated otherwise, likely made a typing mistake or their response went into your junk email folder because it was from an unrecognized source so probably considered spam.  You can not blame the resort for these issues.  Sometimes I have had difficulty contacting by phone but other times it has been fine.  No different than any other numbers I try to reach in Mexico which seem to be sporadic and even worse with cell phones.  Remember there is a time difference for many of us.  Just because you don't get someone on the phone doesn't mean the place is gone.  The phone does answer with a Belaire message.

I urge any member that has a question to send to the above address.  The Belaire travel center has its own toll free contact number and is located in the US.  If you want the number again send a message and request it because I do not want to post it here.


----------



## Great Dane

Snappy Sam said:


> I think it is worth repeating that this thread was close to being shut down when Mule got everyone stirred up awhile back. I think it is a tactic once again so that either Bruce gets eliminated from the conversations or the thread gets shut down.
> We don't feel intimidated by anyone who shares information willingly through this thread. However, we are glad we listened to those who helped us to get out of a several thousand dollar jam!
> We have fractional ownership at The Residences at the Crane in Barbados as well as timeshare in PV. It's hard to give much credibility to folks who claim to have timeshare and fractional ownership other places including the Belaire who continue to remain "Guests" rather than becoming TUG members. And for those of us who could have lost several thousands of dollars or potentially will lose money it's hard for us to always remember to remain calm. I truly don't want Zara to lose her money nor anyone else.
> _I've edited out remarks that could be considered name-calling as I don't want anyone else to respond with personal attacks. No one wants to shut down this long and informative thread so we all must restrain ourselves a bit and just stick with the facts without any personal remarks to or about other posters. Thanks, Karen G, Moderator. _


 
Whether I am "Guest" or a "member" does not make my information any less valuable than anyone else.  I am not trying to get the thread shut down.  I am trying to put factual information on the tread.

I also don't have to be a member to indicate where I own timeshares.  I own at Mayan Palace Riviera and Club Regina (Westin) Los Cabos.

I am not Mule and don't appreciate your suggesting I am someone else as you have done with other members on this thread that I have spoken with.


----------



## kholmes35

*Belaire Golf Resort & Spa (PRC)*

Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site.  We are in PV on vacation and were sold into Belaire 2 days ago.  It didn't feel right from the start and the more we discussed it after the transaction the worse we felt.  We were sold a Diamond Executive Suite with a trade of our current Wyndham Timeshare, several credit cards and a promissory note all totalling about $33K.  
When I googled Antonio Copela's name, I found this site.  Thankfully, we were still within our 5 Day recission period and were able to cancel and get everything refunded.  Not too say this was at all easy....
First of all, it is confirmed that Profeco is indeed closed in PV.  We took a cab and found this out personally.  But again,  thanks to this site, we had already written our letter of cancellation, made all the necessary copies and mailed certified copies.  According to the instructions in our contract, we went back to Belaire and delivered our letter of canellation personally and then were made to wait around for 4 hours while our salesperson and Antonio tried to pursuade us to change our minds.  Yes, another confirmation is that they will call you stupid, and try to make you feel like you are making the biggest mistake of your life.


----------



## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> I am willing to address any issue you or any one else have raised or will raise.
> 
> Let's start with the exchange issue since that has been highlighted.  Maybe everyone needs a little education about exchanges and how they work.  When you purchase a right to use vacation property, you generally have some number of registered and unregistered weeks or whatever the resort decides to call them.  In Belaire's case they are mandatory and optional.  Your registered week or weeks are those that are your's at your home resort.  You have the option of using that week at your home resort or banking it and choosing to trade that time for time at another resort.  The unregistered week(s) are those that you can additionally use at your home resort or anywhere and do not require any kind of banking.  I am using the term exchange to include both these situations because in both cases you are utilizing inventory from an exchange company even though only in the first instance are you actually exchanging the time.
> 
> Belaire cannot participate with an exchange company for purposes of banking and trading your registered weeks until the building is complete and you actually have something to trade.  That should be fairly obvious and has been confirmed by the exchange companies that Belaire has said they have planned to operate with.  However, Belaire can and does have the ability to obtain special inventory from these exchange companies to provide to their users to stay at other locations.  Of course, they have to buy this inventory and it appears that is what they have done.
> 
> As an example, I was given an "exchange" at Velas in PV for one of my stays through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center which is a property in the Registry Collection.  On another occassion I wanted to go to Cancun and I had my choice of several RCI member properties.  These were properties I couldn't get through my normal RCI timeshare exchange because it turns out they sell the weeks that get banked out on the wholesale markets so that the timeshare owners can't get them but others can.
> 
> So, while you would like to say they have lied about being part of exchange companies they do have inventory available for their members from the exchange companies.  In fact, access to places that RCI could not get for me under my timeshare exchange rights.  And as has already confirmed in one of the earlier posts, Belaire have submitted their paperwork to be part of the Registry Collection when the building is ready.
> 
> Next topic please.




Same, topic.  Quote" That should be fairly obvious and has been confirmed by the exchange companies that Belaire has said they have planned to operate with"  Unquote

Only one of the companies have has said that they may take on the Belaire. The other two stated nothing on their website answers that they have or would accept deposits from the Belaire. Check the links provided about the SFX and TPI web postings.

Your Quote " Belaire Concierge and Travel Center which is a property in the Registry Collection."Unquote  That was run by Marcos along with this pitching sales.

Your Quote "Maybe everyone needs a little education about exchanges and how they work" Unquote 

Seeing that you posted that for 5 years you could could not get the exchanges that you wanted, most people would say you have very limited  knowlegde on how to get exchanges.

In regards to knowing about exchanges I have sucessfully used 5 differant exchange companies and made over 25 exchanges so I will say your exchanging knowlegde is not great to say the least.

As a matter of record, some of loopholes I was credited  with on  some timeshare websites for finding  loopholes in the RCI Points exchange system, and that I was creative with and enjoyed for several years system have now been closed. 

So for you to say you can teach me about exchanging in light of you posting saying you could not make even one sucessfull exchange in 5 years is to a lot us interesting. You did post about your lack of sucess with RCI while I have done good. 

I have never heard of anyone not being able to make even one RCI Timeshare exchange after trying for 5 years as you claimed in a post.

In fact we have 3 reservations through both RCI and another exchange company at a Gold Crown resort in Puerto Vallarta for the 2008 New Years week and the week after. 


Also what date and unit number did you get to use at the Velas which is very close in location to the Belaire land and a very easy exchange as  it is all inclusive for exchangers  

In PV on some September weeks at the 2 Gold Crowns we  were told one had 8% of their units filled and one was at about 30% so PV is not a hard place to get all year round.

So that inventory may just be from the pool of weeks that are mostly developer weeks and burn weeks. The Velas is a very nice resort.

In case you did not know it ou can buy a Velas week  ownership off of ebay for $1. Go to the completed ebay auctions for proof. I would suggest if you condsitered the Velas a hard exchange, you are not well informed on exchanging.

You have not addressed the first posting on this string by a exemployee of the Belaire saying  in regards to owners that some who bought a Belaire package will not be able to stay at the Belaire.

The proven fact is the Belaire did lie about being to exchange with the 3 exchanges in 2008 when the building was to be completed.

Bruce


----------



## Karen G

kholmes35 said:


> Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site. . . .  thanks to this site, we had already written our letter of cancellation, made all the necessary copies and mailed certified copies.  According to the instructions in our contract, we went back to Belaire and delivered our letter of canellation personally and then were made to wait around for 4 hours while our salesperson and Antonio tried to pursuade us to change our minds.  Yes, another confirmation is that they will call you stupid, and try to make you feel like you are making the biggest mistake of your life.


kholmes35, welcome to TUG and thanks for letting us know that we helped another person through this thread.


----------



## brucecz

kholmes35 said:


> Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site.  We are in PV on vacation and were sold into Belaire 2 days ago.  It didn't feel right from the start and the more we discussed it after the transaction the worse we felt.  We were sold a Diamond Executive Suite with a trade of our current Wyndham Timeshare, several credit cards and a promissory note all totalling about $33K.
> When I googled Antonio Copela's name, I found this site.  Thankfully, we were still within our 5 Day recission period and were able to cancel and get everything refunded.  Not too say this was at all easy....
> First of all, it is confirmed that Profeco is indeed closed in PV.  We took a cab and found this out personally.  But again,  thanks to this site, we had already written our letter of cancellation, made all the necessary copies and mailed certified copies.  According to the instructions in our contract, we went back to Belaire and delivered our letter of canellation personally and then were made to wait around for 4 hours while our salesperson and Antonio tried to pursuade us to change our minds.  Yes, another confirmation is that they will call you stupid, and try to make you feel like you are making the biggest mistake of your life.



 Congrats, I am sure you can now sleep :zzz: better. Who was your  sales person?

Bruce


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## aliikai2

*This makes me so happy*

When we bought I tried to do a search from the Club Regina where we were staying in PV, _because it felt wrong_, and nothing came up.

 I had a terrible sleepless night trying to justify the purchase, and the more I went over the *no annual fees*, *the buy back for a huge profit*, the more I came to the exact conclusion, that this wasn't for us. 

So, I am so happy that our postings has saved another from the ultimate heartbreak that I think is going to occur at the Belaire.


jmho,  

Greg



kholmes35 said:


> Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site.  We are in PV on vacation and were sold into Belaire 2 days ago.  It didn't feel right from the start and the more we discussed it after the transaction the worse we felt.  We were sold a Diamond Executive Suite with a trade of our current Wyndham Timeshare, several credit cards and a promissory note all totalling about $33K.
> When I googled Antonio Copela's name, I found this site.  Thankfully, we were still within our 5 Day recission period and were able to cancel and get everything refunded.  Not too say this was at all easy....
> First of all, it is confirmed that Profeco is indeed closed in PV.  We took a cab and found this out personally.  But again,  thanks to this site, we had already written our letter of cancellation, made all the necessary copies and mailed certified copies.  According to the instructions in our contract, we went back to Belaire and delivered our letter of canellation personally and then were made to wait around for 4 hours while our salesperson and Antonio tried to pursuade us to change our minds.  Yes, another confirmation is that they will call you stupid, and try to make you feel like you are making the biggest mistake of your life.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Good for you!*



kholmes35 said:


> Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site.  We are in PV on vacation and were sold into Belaire 2 days ago.
> That's fantastic! It makes all of us feel better knowing that you've found TUG and a whole bunch of new friends who will help you any time, any where!
> I bet we are all amused that it was googling Antonio's name that brought you here. I don't think he is a big fan of many of us on TUG and doubt he would be pleased to know it was his name that brought you here!:rofl:
> Now don't stop reading all of the past advice to make sure you follow up when you return. We spent a lot of time when we came home contacting our credit card company, filing disputes, etc. Even though our money was refunded by our credit card company within 10 days, we just received offical notification that the original account we had with that credit card company was closed and the dispute closed and complete. Keep on top of things....we've been on it since July 18th!


----------



## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> Let's talk about communications with the resort.
> 
> Belaire has been sending out newletters ever since I became a member.  First, it was about once per quarter and then this year about once every other month.  They are sent via email so if they don't have your current email (and of course if you are not a member) you will not receive them.  Just make sure they have your current email address on file.
> 
> I have always received responses to any message I have sent whether it be to the memberservices@belairevacationclub.com or the customer.care@belairevacationclub.com email addresses.  Those of you that have indicated otherwise, likely made a typing mistake or their response went into your junk email folder because it was from an unrecognized source so probably considered spam.  You can not blame the resort for these issues.  Sometimes I have had difficulty contacting by phone but other times it has been fine.  No different than any other numbers I try to reach in Mexico which seem to be sporadic and even worse with cell phones.  Remember there is a time difference for many of us.  Just because you don't get someone on the phone doesn't mean the place is gone.  The phone does answer with a Belaire message.
> 
> I urge any member that has a question to send to the above address.  The Belaire travel center has its own toll free contact number and is located in the US.  If you want the number again send a message and request it because I do not want to post it here.



The Puerto Vallarta time zone is the same as the USA CST timezone. 

But Nueo Vallarta is 1 hour behind both of the time zones  mentioned in my first sentance.

If a person goes and spends a lot of money buying at the Belaire you would think they surely know what time zone the Belaire is in. I am not sure what the poster I quoted above is saying about the Belaire buyers.

In regards to many posts by buyers in the 3 Belaire  strings about the poor communcation in returning calls, the excuses above including the one about time zones are very weak.


Bruce


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## Great Dane

[_Edited to delete personal attack statement_ Dave M, BBS Moderator]

What I provided are means for contacting the resort should anybody want to get in touch with them and just making them aware of the time differences and other difficulties that people may have with email communications.  I did not make excuses for anyone.

Also, I indicated my experience with trying to make exchanges via RCI who is the company and method provided by my timeshare company to make exchanges.  I didn't say it was not possible, only that my experience was they never had availability when and where I wanted to go.  I have talked to many other people that have shared with me the exact same situation.  Are there other means, can you get things if you book plenty in advance? Presumably, but that is not what is advertised by the people selling timeshare properties.  You are supposed to be able to call RCI and get an exchange.  When I worked with the Belaire Travel group they got me something where I wanted.

What difference is it what room I stayed in at Velas?  Again, you are continuing to derail the real conversation and issue with things that don't provide value to anyone.  The point I made was that I was able to get a Registry Collection property as was promised to me by Belaire.

I was never told by Belaire I could exchange with TPI as I have never even heard of them.  I have heard of SFX but was not told I could use them either.

As I said and will say again, I am not trying to educate those that are familiar and have had plenty of experience with exchanges.  You are not the normal type of person.  Most that purchase will only call the number they have been provided and don't know exactly how it is all supposed to work.  Of course, I know how to use the internet and search for deals but again that has nothing to do with Belaire.

To answer the other question about them selling something where you don't have a unit at Belaire, for those of you who claim to know everything.  Anyone who has been to these type of presentations, knows that when you aren't interested in purchasing they offer you what is called a trial package.  You purchase some number of weeks for some number of years at a discounted price to allow you to use the exchanges services (excluding the banking for exchange privileges) to see how you like it.  You do not have a home week anywhere.  If you are satisfied with your experience they hope that you will come back and purchase a unit at the resort.  I have had this offered at several places and Belaire appears to offer a similar program.  In this case, you will not have a contract indicating you have a unit with a registered week.  Again, where is this a lie and any different than any other place that you seem to feel is a more legitimate offering?


----------



## brucecz

[_Personal attack deleted. You may post your own observations about Belaire, but you may not attack other posters. Please post in a respectful manner or do not post._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


----------



## Great Dane

[_Edited to delete response to personal attack._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


----------



## pammex

great dane..you have been reading these posts for 8 months and finally decided to join what Tug, or just to post, you are listed as a guest not a TUG member.  

Many of the posters are giving facts..the facts they were told while at a Belair sales presentation.....some have posted pictures....some have no motive other than to help others who may or may not be financially hurt in this venture.  

TUG is all about helping each other out in regards to timeshares and well forewarned is forearmed.  

You say you are a Belair member, so are you happy with your purchase?  Have the promises or things said and or written ( well better go just on the written) come to fruition.  If so, or if not so, I would like to hear your story.  

I have no motive other than to be a TUG member which means to me to help or be helped by other TUG members in all things involving timeshares, as well as other things at times.  We are a community per say....for information.  

I am not a member of Belair, nor did I buy for many reasons, I was told many untruths in presentation, the contract was full of loopholes, we were told we would make our money back in 2 years and no taxes etc..then we could join them in their next venture in the same way..( we were also told that immigration and the IRS were going to start questioning all who visited mexico if they made any gifts or money at a timeshare presentation and that they would have to pay taxes on that...now come on immigration does not even deal with taxes, hacienda does and like they have the man power to do this and an IRS agent at the aiport )..we were also told the airport would be moved to Southside and an additional one was going to be built and a road going right thru the military base to decrease time to NV...too good to be true...and also I had known valuable info from the TUG community previous to my going, and also had heard things that did not actually make me want to be involved in this throughout PV.  Yes, things being said by locals who actually live in PV.  

In light of all that has been said I have to say that I would never refer someone to purchase here as there is just too many problems and not access to use, with timeframes just being pushed further and further out....and I do own timeshares in Mexico and I enjoy them very much, some I may have got caught in some tactics and paid too much , others I fared well, but either way I have use to them and have had good vacations with them and most of the promises made were kept.  Every thing written in my contracts is true and I have had no issues with any of my timeshares in Mexico nor US.  

Personally I do not know brucecz, but have followed his posts and I feel he is just being an informed, helpful Tug member, I do not see him as having any motive other than to help others in seeing the reality of this Belair concept.  He does own another timeshare in Mx., and has not complained or posted negatives about that one.....It does appear to be funny that most of the very positive posters are guests....

You say you did not receive anything when you made your Belair purchase but have you received anything as yet, considering no one buys a timeshare to not get even a week of use.....So you paid money and got no compensation, okay that is fine, but are you getting the promised use of a timeshare or fractional ownership as promised.  

There are many who purchased who have taken a killing financially without even the hope of fruition.....some of these people are retirees who planned to spend their time vacationing and retiring with these units....others are people who bought with all good intentions of using this as their vacation escape....I would certainly be pretty upset if I had purchased and had nothing to use....

The only motive here by telling the stories of what is occurring and has happened and such is to make others aware of what is being told to prospective buyers, to help those who feel they have erred and want out, or to let those who may be thinking of purchasing what they are getting into.  

There are many timeshare or fractional ownerships throughout mexico and this happens to be the only one where I see so many problems , other than the usual possibly unscrupulous sales tactics, but those owners are at least getting to make use of what they bought!  

Personally I am finding each and every new post is bringing more and more info to the forefront, and frankly none of it sounds too good...

I continue to hope for the best for those who are in this...but I also at the same time, fear for whether it will actually come to fruition.


----------



## Dave M

pammex said:


> ...you are listed as a guest not a TUG member.
> 
> ....
> 
> It does appear to be funny that most of the very positive posters are guests....


In my role as moderator, all should be advised that there is no stigma associated with being a "Guest" rather than a "TUG Member". TUG's ownership has made it clear that the BBS is free to all and that TUG membership is not required to obtain and retain BBS posting privileges. There are numerous longtime Guests who post on the BBS. All Guests are welcome to post here.


----------



## pammex

Snappy Sam said:


> If we hadn't read thr posts from Bruce and our Moderator Karen G, we would be out over $24,000 dollars! And would have thought we had given up our other timeshare in PV.
> 
> So anyone who wants to question Bruce's motivation to share information that is helpful should know that if it wasn't for his detailed messages and replies we would be in absolute turmoil. Instead, we followed all of the advice given to us by Bruce and Karen G. As a result of following their advice we have a letter from our credit card company stating that our money is fully refunded and the case is closed.
> 
> THANKS to Bruce's motivation we sleep at night!!!!



I am so happy that Brucecz and Karen G. were able to help you and that your story has a happy ending!!!!!!

That is what this site is all about...helping each other in instances like this....thanks for sharing that story snappy sam.


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## Great Dane

Panamex,

I appreciate the more rational nature of your message.  I have found however, that the majority of information on this site is from a very select few who may have indeed had a very bad experience and have decided to make it well known to others.  I feel compelled to show that there are people who are just as happy with their Belaire purchase.  We have seen posts from them but they are always rail-roaded by the more vocal negative posters.

I indicated I own two other timeshares and I can honestly say that almost none of what was presented to me in either of those presentations has turned out to be true.  On the other hand, everything that Belaire has told me they have lived up to.  As I mentioned, I have gotten exchanges to go other places, I have seen the construction proceeding in person and I will address some of the other things that were in their presentation in a separate thread.

I doubt that very many people have purchased a preconstruction property and contract.  It is completely different.  If you expected to be able to use the property right away then of course you would be unhappy.  If it didn't get finished on the date they may have told you then again you may be disappointed but that doesn't mean it is all lies and you will lose all your money.

Indeed it may not be right for everyone but the people on this thread who it is not right for are indicating it is not a good purchase for anyone.  Tell them your experience and let them decide.  After someone tells a negative experience everyone pats them on the back and tells them how smart they are.  When someone tells a positive story there is nothing but ridicule and a continuous string of posts trying to tell them how their experience is a sham.  I do not find this in the spirit of why this BBS has been provided.  Let each tell their story and leave it at that.

Even though I have had a very negative experience with my timeshare ownership I don't think that those who own at those place would appreciate me going to their BBS thread and telling everyone to stay away.  They just lie, do not go there, do not buy from them, do not vacation there, you will lose all the money you spend.


----------



## pammex

I am sorry if I implied a stigma being associated with being a guest here, was not my intent to offend any guest, I realize there are many valuable long time guest posters here, so I am retracting, if that is possible my  statement.  I think it was in context of what poster had said, but that is neither here nor there, so any guest posters please accept my apologies if I offended or implied you were in any way not as important as any other poster here on TUG.


----------



## pammex

Great Dane said:


> Panamex,
> 
> I appreciate the more rational nature of your message.  I have found however, that the majority of information on this site is from a very select few who may have indeed had a very bad experience and have decided to make it well known to others.  I feel compelled to show that there are people who are just as happy with their Belaire purchase.  We have seen posts from them but they are always rail-roaded by the more vocal negative posters.
> 
> I indicated I own two other timeshares and I can honestly say that almost none of what was presented to me in either of those presentations has turned out to be true.  On the other hand, everything that Belaire has told me they have lived up to.  As I mentioned, I have gotten exchanges to go other places, I have seen the construction proceeding in person and I will address some of the other things that were in their presentation in a separate thread.
> 
> I doubt that very many people have purchased a preconstruction property and contract.  It is completely different.  If you expected to be able to use the property right away then of course you would be unhappy.  If it didn't get finished on the date they may have told you then again you may be disappointed but that doesn't mean it is all lies and you will lose all your money.
> 
> Indeed it may not be right for everyone but the people on this thread who it is not right for are indicating it is not a good purchase for anyone.  Tell them your experience and let them decide.  After someone tells a negative experience everyone pats them on the back and tells them how smart they are.  When someone tells a positive story there is nothing but ridicule and a continuous string of posts trying to tell them how their experience is a sham.  I do not find this in the spirit of why this BBS has been provided.  Let each tell their story and leave it at that.
> 
> Even though I have had a very negative experience with my timeshare ownership I don't think that those who own at those place would appreciate me going to their BBS thread and telling everyone to stay away.  They just lie, do not go there, do not buy from them, do not vacation there, you will lose all the money you spend.



Your post is the first I have read on this thread stating you actually got use of your membership, possibly there are others who have to but they have not shared that info.  

I must say I am curious to hear more of your stay at Velas though since I am familiar with that resort and what unit you stayed in as some are much better than others.  I would hope you got a good unit since the Belair show units are certainly top notch.  

Sorry your timeshares you own before belair have not worked for you, I personally have had wonderful luck with mine, despite a few potholes here and there.  Of course it was a learning curve.  

My observations of Belair have been based on my personal experience with them and my experience in buying pre-construction which was nothing like what is occurring at Belair.  Just a note aside my husband is a builder, so there is some knowledge of construction coming from this end.


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## pammex

Was out of internet connection last night and well frequently thru last few days so please forgive my so many posts in a row I had them pending....and since I am connected this moment, thought I would get them in quick...

Kholmes35....I am happy that it all worked out for you the way you wished....


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## Great Dane

pammex said:


> Your post is the first I have read on this thread stating you actually got use of your membership, possibly there are others who have to but they have not shared that info.


 
I have talked to several others who have made use of their Belaire memberships.  They would have no reason to be on the TUG BBS as they are again happy members so you will not likely hear from many of them.  That is also why I am only a Guest and not a Member of TUG because I have no reason to join and utilize this site for any other purpose other than to share this current information.


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## TimeShare Junky

Great Dane said:


> I have talked to several others who have made use of their Belaire memberships.  They would have no reason to be on the TUG BBS as they are again happy members so you will not likely hear from many of them.  That is also why I am only a Guest and not a Member of TUG because I have no reason to join and utilize this site for any other purpose other than to share this current information.



I personally will not be happy until I can use these units and perks. I would have pefered to use the unit there and did not want to use for trading purposes. I own 15 + week and can go anywhere, except the place defined as a golden oportunity. People who join Tug use it for the vast information and timeshare oportunities, not to complain about this specific issue. 

I would also like to mention that the online cameras show the same images
as a week ago or maybe longer.


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## Great Dane

TimeShare Junky said:


> I would also like to mention that the online cameras show the same images
> as a week ago or maybe longer.


 
I just checked the cameras and they do not show the same information as a week ago.  There is one additional layer of rebar wrapped around the first two rows that was not there last week. Once you bring up the page it will not change or refresh automatically.  You have to hold the control key and press F5. This will refresh them image.  If you do this three or four times, at say 1 or 2 second intervals, you will see people moving around the site working, cars going by on the street, etc.  Let me know if you have futher problems.


----------



## Blondie

Great Dane said:


> I just checked the cameras and they do not show the same information as a week ago.  There is one additional layer of rebar wrapped around the first two rows that was not there last week. Once you bring up the page it will not change or refresh automatically.  You have to hold the control key and press F5. This will refresh them image.  If you do this three or four times, at say 1 or 2 second intervals, you will see people moving around the site working, cars going by on the street, etc.  Let me know if you have futher problems.



Wow- an additional layer of rebar in one week.
That is impressive! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: How foolish we tuggers look. Because, after all, if things were going well at Belaire nobody on Tug would have a reason to exist, now would we? Surprising that so many "guests" here are  quite adamant about the wonderful goings on at Belaire, albeit two years late. I mean, really, what DO they have to gain? :hysterical:


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## california-bighorn

*Building Progress*



Great Dane said:


> I just checked the cameras and they do not show the same information as a week ago.  There is one additional layer of rebar wrapped around the first two rows that was not there last week. Once you bring up the page it will not change or refresh automatically.  You have to hold the control key and press F5. This will refresh them image.  If you do this three or four times, at say 1 or 2 second intervals, you will see people moving around the site working, cars going by on the street, etc.  Let me know if you have futher problems.



We will be at Velas Vallarta in February.  At that time I will walk over to the Belair site and I fully expect to see addition layers of rebar wrapped around another row or two (of pilings?).  I'll be sure to report back.
Where do I sign up to take the Belair tour?   :hysterical:


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## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I will also be in Purerto Vallarta(Mayan Palace and the Marina) between January 2, 2009 through April 24, 2009. At various times I will visit Belaire and attempt to keep memebers up to date.


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## retiring soon

*Appealing a credit card company charge*

MissDaisy10,
I am interested in finding out what information you supplied your credit card company to win.  I am in the process of appealing my charges to Belaire and I would appreciate any words of wisdom.  Thanks!!!!!


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## Snappy Sam

*New thread for Belaire Spa and Resort in PV*

As predicted, the last Belaire thread was closed down. I mentioned on two separate occasions that closing that thread would happen if we allowed ourselves to get caught up with those who have reason to want the thread to no longer be active. Perhaps baiting others was intentional rather than reactionary. So let's not be a part of that as the information shared is just so valuable for so many people who potentially could lose thousands of dollars. That certainly would have been us if we hadn't found the Belaire threads!!!
Most of us know the negatives about Belaire by now. And we all know if we respond with negative personal attacks we will be closed again. My guess is that feeds in to exactly what Belaire wants to have happen!  
So, let's not let this happen again. 
If you are new to this website we welcome you and invite you to read the previous Belaire Resort and Spa threads for lots of great information. And those of us who have had experience with Belaire are here to continue to help you.


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## Snappy Sam

*September letter from Belaire*

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned receiving an update letter from Belaire. We did by email (although I am sure he didn't realize that it went to us as it was an old email address that we had used temporarily while in PV) from Jonathan Tomasello, Antonio Copela's son who seems to be in charge. Here's what he had to say:
To all our members, 
Another month has gone by and summer is quickly drawing to an end. This is a time that generally means changing routines and schedules for the fall season. For those that have been checking the real-time video camera feeds frequently, you will understand why this is actually good news. Summer means lots of nightly rains in Puerto Vallarta making the construction efforts very difficult as we have to pump thousands of gallons of water each day from the site before work can begin. However we have been continuously working through this period and you should be able to clearly see the foundation taking shape. The cement has been poured for the elevator area and now work is progressing on the first tower foundation. 

Our attention remains focused on the building construction as we know this is just as important to our members. With the price of steel continuing to rise, we have finalized the purchase of the steel necessary to complete the building. Therefore, once we get through these particularly difficult and most time consuming foundational elements you will start to see floors going up quite rapidly. We expect this to be in the mid-October timeframe. 

At this point, we are still expecting to have the tower up in the first quarter of 2009. We appreciate your patience, as things take shape and we move closer to your dreams becoming reality. 

We have become aware that some of you are still asking about exchange capabilities. Our original arrangement with the Registry Collection did not work out as expected. We apologize that they did not honor the commitment they made with us for our members even though we paid our fees to them long ago. We then looked what our members really wanted and the issues that existed with the current external exchange companies. For example, having minimal inventory even when booking many months in advance, getting only basic timeshare units in many locations, and dealing with all the points versus weeks designations. Sometimes good things come out of such situations. 

As a result, Beláire members have their own dedicated Concierge and Travel Services Center, toll free from the U.S. and Canada (phone numbers removed per request of the resort...these are intended for members only not the general public) , which will happily to assist you with any exchange and travel needs. Remember your membership does not have any yearly registration dues or any weekly maintenance fees. We have made things very simple in that you only pay the relevant weekly exchange fees. Yet you will find that you truly have access to the finest hotels, resorts and travel services anywhere in the world including those offered through the other exchange companies. Many of your fellow members have already experienced the superb personal service and exceptional travel options available. 

We are always looking at new and exciting ways to enhance your member experience and will continue to communicate them to you in future newsletters. Again, I want to remind all our members that if you have any questions or concerns please email us at (emails removed per request of the resort as they are intended for members only, not the general public) as we want to hear from you. 

Sincerely, 

Jonathan Tomasello 

_I've removed an editorial comment that might provoke other comments that would lead to the thread being closed.  Please post just the facts and try not to "editorialize" even in jest. Thanks, Karen G, Moderator_


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## Karen G

Okay, here we go again with a Belaire thread.  For anyone who just now is finding TUG and this thread, this is the long thread  referenced in the first post. It contains a lot of information and first-hand experiences with the resort.  However, it was closed because some posters did not follow the "be courteous" rules.

In order for this current thread to remain open, please post only new information about Belaire that has not been covered in the thread above. And please adhere to all TUG posting rules.  This thread will be closely monitored and offending posts will be deleted or the thread itself will be closed, probably with no questions asked.

As the moderator of this Mexico forum, I want us to be able to help anyone who needs help with timesharing and I want us to be able to share our experiences and questions with each other. But, we must do so in a civil manner and we must abide by TUG rules.  TUG is owned by an individual--it is not a democracy--the owner/administrator is free to operate this site however he wishes and to establish whatever policies he deems necessary and satisfactory.  I'm happy to be a volunteer moderator, partake of all  TUG offers, and follow the rules for posting.  Please help me do so.


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## Archie583

*New Thread for Belaire Spa and Resort in PV*

Karen,
I know this is a long time in the future but my wife and I will be in Mexico from January 2, 2009 through April 24, 2009. We will be in the Marina area for this entire time period.  We will visit Belaire at various times and attempt to report to TUG members.  Since my wife and I are owners at Belaire we do not believe we will have any trouble accessing the site.
Maybe this problem will be resolved by the time we get to Mexico but I doubt this will happen.
Thank you for your help on this matter.


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## Karen G

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Karen,
> I know this is a long time in the future but my wife and I will be in Mexico from January 2, 2009 through April 24, 2009. We will be in the Marina area for this entire time period.  We will visit Belaire at various times and attempt to report to TUG members.  Since my wife and I are owners as Belaire we do not believe we will have any trouble accessing the site.
> Maybe this problem will be resolved by the time we get to Mexico but I doubt this will happen.
> Thank you for your help on this matter.


That's cool!  We'll look forward to your reports.


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## zara

*Belaire*

For those of you looking at the webcam, you can see that cement is being poured today and progress is being made. That's great!


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## TUGBrian

Since another topic was started ignoring the request of a previous admin, and since this topic has been wildly popular...this thread is open again (ill merge the other one here in a second)

To address some "rumors"  I can assure you that this thread was closed for NO other reason than people could not follow the be courteous rule, that is the #1 cause of threads being closed here...period.

Speaking your personal opinion is covered by free speech, completely and totally.  Those that think differently are welcome to argue it but will have zero success.

Our only stipulation to your free speech right, is that you must remain courteous while doing so.

From now on in this thread, anyone not following that rule will have their post 100% removed.  not just the violating line or comment.

Our moderators and admin staff are not babysitters, you are all adults and all agreed to the posting guidelines during registration here.

If you failed to read them, or chose to flat out ignore them, your posting priviledges will be suspended.


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## Snappy Sam

*Thank You Brian and info for Retiring Soon*

Thanks for linking the threads once more Brian. 

Information for "retiring Soon".....
We gave our credit card company the following:
Copy of our contract with Belaire
Copy of the Letter of Recission that we delivered to Belaire
Copy of our credit card receipt
Copy of letter from Belaire agreeing to refund our money signed and dated when we hand delivered the letter to Marcos, Antonio Copela and Jonathan Tomasello
Copy of letter to Profeco

Hope this helps.


----------



## esk444

I was looking at the Redweek.com forum regarding Belaire.  http://www.redweek.com/forums/messages?thread_id=14685

Some poster claims that they talked to Nico in Puerto Vallarta and he told them that TUG moderators closed its previous Belaire threads because they are full of lies and because TUG was threatened by the Belaire's attorneys.   

Can the Moderators confirm or refute this allegation?  (which sounds kind of ludicrous to me).


----------



## Karen G

esk444 said:


> Can the Moderators confirm or refute this allegation?  (which sounds kind of ludicrous to me).


Yes, that is ludicrous.  See the post from TUGBrian, owner of TUG, three posts above this one.


----------



## Dave M

I concur. I'm the moderator that initially closed this thread and did it only because of the constant violations of the TUG BBS "Be Courteous" Posting Rules. 

Brian has reopened it, explaining that the rumor you heard (and which he heard) is false and setting stringent behavior conditions.


----------



## TUGBrian

esk444 said:


> because TUG was threatened by the Belaire's attorneys.
> 
> Can the Moderators confirm or refute this allegation?  (which sounds kind of ludicrous to me).



Id be happy to, although I have already done so in my previous post

Its 100% false.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Thanks for the clarification again!*

THanks for repeating your clarification Brian. I just missed it before but am glad to see that TUG is supportive of everyone. I think it is easy to become "discourteous" and even aggressive in comments when a person feels deceived and taken for a lot of money. It's great to have a place to "vent" but I don't think that adds any new information and only feeds in to the possibilty of loosing a thread that provides a great deal of information for everyone. So many folks have benefited and need a place to find answers to their doubts. And this is the place!


----------



## Great Dane

*Stop telling lies about Belaire*



Blondie said:


> albeit two years late.


 
Well, since the post has been reopened I now have the opportunity to provide more facts.

First, I find it quite appauling that some of my earlier posts prior to the closing of this thread were completely removed.  That definitely shows that this thread is not an unbiased source of information to those who may think and use TUG as a means for obtaining truthful facts.

So, I will reiterate what I said before in response to the post about Belaire being two years late.  Belaire has not even been around for two years so it cannot be two years late.  Again, this is another complete lie posted on this thread to try to give Belaire an undeserving bad image.  As was discussed in an earlier post, the expectation was completion in September of 2008.  Therefore, it will probably be about 6 - 8 months behind the orginal schedule.


----------



## Karen G

Great Dane said:


> . . . I now have the opportunity to provide more facts.. . . the expectation was completion in September of 2008.  Therefore, it will probably be about 6 - 8 months behind the orginal schedule.


So are you saying that the project will be up and running and open for business in May, 2009?


----------



## TUGBrian

Great Dane said:


> Well, since the post has been reopened I now have the opportunity to provide more facts.
> 
> First, I find it quite appauling that some of my earlier posts prior to the closing of this thread were completely removed.  That definitely shows that this thread is not an unbiased source of information to those who may think and use TUG as a means for obtaining truthful facts.



and as stated in the private messages you are sending as well....I have explained the situation...its obvious you either did not read the rules you agreed to upon registering here, or did read them and choose to ignore them...even after repeated warnings from moderators and admin staff.

This results in your entire posts being removed.  I dont know how to make it any more clear than that.

There were also many other posts removed for similar violations, so playing the "you are singling me out" card is absurd.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Thank You Brian*

Thank you for eliminating the discoureous postings so that the thread stays up and isn't closed altogether. No one wants that to happen as this thread can save folks thousands of dollars (it did for us) and we are very, very greatful.


----------



## wediditinvallarta

*Belaire*

My wife and I have been owners with Belaire for over 4 months and we feel very comfortable with the progress there. We have already booked our our weeks for the Marriot there in Vallarta for our next vacation.
I suggest you see it yourself. If you dont trust it dont buy into it. Why risk trying to cancel later.

And it sounds like many of you have no idea about the 3 month rainy season there that can delay contruction. I know delay sucks but Belaire will be open in 2009


----------



## Blondie

Another guest posting.  I find it odd that only the "guests" here on Tug are happy with Bellaire. Hmmm.


----------



## Scuba2

I just returned from PV 9/30/2008.  I visited the Belaire several times while I was there to view the construction.  The construction being shown on their website is actually taking place.  I spoke with several people at the Belaire and was told that May 2009 is the new target date for completion.


----------



## mlsmn

Not only are these posters guests

they have few posts and don't join TUG 

real cute


----------



## Blondie

mlsmn said:


> Not only are these posters guests
> 
> they have few posts and don't join TUG
> 
> real cute



 Odd that for guests these folks sure know alot about the "Bellaire" goings on here at Tug. This must be some sort of record of new guest posters in one thread??


----------



## brucecz

Blondie said:


> Odd that for guests these folks sure know alot about the "Bellaire" goings on here at Tug. This must be some sort of record of new guest posters in one thread??



A quite a few others and I noted and posted about that same tend on the first 2 Belaire strings and about that same tend again on this thrid Belaire string.

Bruce


----------



## mterra

When I first found this site I logged in and posted as a guest.  I wanted to check it out and see what it was all about.  I have since become a member.  I became a member because of all the knowledge and info people have from their experiences, etc.  I am not as knowledgeable as others, so I may pipe in sometimes, but probably not have the number of posts as others.  I would also like to be able to ask questions, as I have, and get honest feedback.  I believe I have gotten honest feedback so far, even if there is disagreement of opinion.

I am an owner at Belaire and actually found this site after coming home, googling Belaire.  I was extremely concerned when I first found the site and started reading from the beginning.  I can understand those who purchased a year or so ago and saw nothing happen.  I would be irate and bad mouthing them to anyone and everyone every chance I had.  However, since the time that I bought (August) I have seen progress.  I am obsessed and look on the site a few times a day.  I do not know anything about the construction business and all of its problems and delays.  Maybe I am too naive and gullable/trusting because I beileve people.  I have also called and emailed them and have talked with someone at the time or gotten an email response back.  

So, here I am in Alaska, watching, waiting, calling and emailing as I can.  We even thought of going down in Nov, thanksgiving time--flights are kinda pricey.  Hanging in there...

Mary


----------



## Karen G

mterra said:


> When I first found this site I logged in and posted as a guest.  I wanted to check it out and see what it was all about.  I have since become a member. . . .I am an owner at Belaire and actually found this site after coming home, googling Belaire.
> Mary


Mary, we're happy to have you as a member of TUG. Hope things will eventually work out satisfactorily for you at Belaire.


----------



## Scuba2

Blondie said:


> Odd that for guests these folks sure know alot about the "Bellaire" goings on here at Tug. This must be some sort of record of new guest posters in one thread??



Sorry you question my motives.  I bought into the Belaire in Jan 2007.  I know a lot about the goings on because I  have read TUG for a long time but had no information  to post.  When I read so many quotes questioning the validity of the cameras I thought I'd verify that what the cameras show is accurate.  I keep reading where people visiting PV are asked to report on what they see.  I didn't say I was happy with the progress or praise the Belaire.  Just an objective view of what I saw on my vacation.  I guess if it doesn't rip into the Belaire you are not interested.


----------



## Blondie

Scuba2 said:


> Sorry you question my motives.  I bought into the Belaire in Jan 2007.  I know a lot about the goings on because I  have read TUG for a long time but had no information  to post.  When I read so many quotes questioning the validity of the cameras I thought I'd verify that what the cameras show is accurate.  I keep reading where people visiting PV are asked to report on what they see.  I didn't say I was happy with the progress or praise the Belaire.  Just an objective view of what I saw on my vacation.  I guess if it doesn't rip into the Belaire you are not interested.



Not at all. I am just suspicious by nature and some of these posts are clearly shills. Good luck...


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Registry Collection a real loss*

Unfortunately for anyone who hoped to have access to the Registry Collection as a Belaire owner, that is no longer a possibility. After speaking with their representatives we learned that they were not getting the information updates they requested from Belaire. 
Thast was confirmed by Jonathan Thomasello in his letter to the Belaire Owners which I previously posted.


----------



## pianodinosaur

*Guests and TUGBBS*

I was a guest on TUGBBS prior to joining TUG.  I am under the impression that guests and TUG members are treated equally in this forum.  The reason I joined TUG is that the information provided by other Tuggers has proven very valuable. This website is expensive to maintain and I wanted to contribute my fair share and have access to the reviews. 

The quality of this forum is largely due to the moderators.  I have had only one post censored because I posted a political joke.  I knew it was a political joke and the moderator felt it was too political for the standards set in the TUG lounge.  The moderator followed the rules and I learned the limits of this forum.

Just because someone is a guest does not mean that they will not join in the future. I am looking forward to meeting other TUGGERs in person and I will continue to encourage people to visit this website as a guest to see if they find it useful and to find out if they want to join as well.


----------



## Great Dane

*Registry Collection*



Snappy Sam said:


> Unfortunately for anyone who hoped to have access to the Registry Collection as a Belaire owner, that is no longer a possibility. After speaking with their representatives we learned that they were not getting the information updates they requested from Belaire.
> Thast was confirmed by Jonathan Thomasello in his letter to the Belaire Owners which I previously posted.


 
I would appreciate if you wouldn't twist the facts. To reiterate what Belaire has indicated "that they have applied and paid their dues to The Registry Collection and will still become and affiliate when it has the construction completed." So your statement above is not at all correct. In addition, Belaire has indicated that in the interim they have purchased inventory and weeks for members use. So, what you have posted is completely false.   If you are an active member you can confirm this with Belaire member services and the travel group.


----------



## marvic

*Closing Costs & $400 cash gift*



kholmes35 said:


> Hello, I am new to TUG and so glad that I found this site.  We are in PV on vacation and were sold into Belaire 2 days ago.  It didn't feel right from the start and the more we discussed it after the transaction the worse we felt.  We were sold a Diamond Executive Suite with a trade of our current Wyndham Timeshare, several credit cards and a promissory note all totalling about $33K.
> When I googled Antonio Copela's name, I found this site.  Thankfully, we were still within our 5 Day recission period and were able to cancel and get everything refunded.  Not too say this was at all easy....
> First of all, it is confirmed that Profeco is indeed closed in PV.  We took a cab and found this out personally.  But again,  thanks to this site, we had already written our letter of cancellation, made all the necessary copies and mailed certified copies.  According to the instructions in our contract, we went back to Belaire and delivered our letter of canellation personally and then were made to wait around for 4 hours while our salesperson and Antonio tried to pursuade us to change our minds.  Yes, another confirmation is that they will call you stupid, and try to make you feel like you are making the biggest mistake of your life.



I also bought at Belaire in June, 2008.  When I returned to the states, I did some research and decided to rescind my contract.  I was within the five business day window.  I sent a certified letter to Belaire and never heard from them.  I also talked to Marcos Vasquez and advised him that I was cancelling.  I advised the credit card company (Chase) of what I had done and that I was disputing the respective charge.  Now (in October, 2008) Chase is asking for additional information such as a copy of the contract.  My contract states that if I cancel the contract, I am still liable for the $1700 in closing costs and the return of the $400 cash gift I received.  Did your contract include those two conditions?  If it did, were you "forced" to forfeit that amount?  Meaning - were you still charged that amount by the credit card company?


----------



## Karen G

marvic said:


> My contract states that if I cancel the contract, I am still liable for the $1700 in closing costs and the return of the $400 cash gift I received.


The wording of Belaire's contract is absurd.  If the contract is rescinded within the timeframe stated, there are no "closing costs."  What on earth would they be "closing."  The contractual agreement doesn't exist any more once it has been rescinded.

 Also, asking for return of the $400 "gift" is also absurd.  By the very nature of the word "gift," ownership of that $400 was transferred to you when you received it in exchange for your valuable time that you gave them to sit and listen to their presentation.  I assume someone invited you to attend a "no obligation" presentation in exchange for the gift of $400.  That's yours. You upheld your end of the deal by showing up.  

Stand your ground with your credit card company and point out the absurdities of the wording in the contract. You've got proof that you sent a certified letter within the specified time frame.

Another tugger, Snappy Sam, was successful in rescinding his contract with Belaire by rescinding within the time period allowed by Mexican law.  I believe his contract had the same wording and, of course, that wording makes no sense.  Get Profeco involved if your credit card company gives you any trouble in cancelling the charges.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Karen is right*



Karen G said:


> Stand your ground with your credit card company and point out the absurdities of the wording in the contract. You've got proof that you sent a certified letter within the specified time frame.
> 
> Another tugger, Snappy Sam, was successful in rescinding his contract with Belaire by rescinding within the time period allowed by Mexican law.  I believe his contract had the same wording and, of course, that wording makes no sense.  Get Profeco involved if your credit card company gives you any trouble in cancelling the charges.



Karen is correct. We apparently had the same contract that you were given. Our credit card was Capital One and we received the full amount including the $1700 "closing charge". We were asked at the Belaire to return the $400 cash and gave them almost the same reasoning that Karen shared with you. We gave them NOTHING and  Antonio Copella finally said that unlike us who gave them a credit card payment that Belaire honors their commitments and their word and would not take our $400 back which of course he couldn't because we never agreed to return it! :hysterical: 
If you scroll though this thread you will find what we submitted to get a full refund.


----------



## Snappy Sam

Great Dane said:


> I would appreciate if you wouldn't twist the facts. To reiterate what Belaire has indicated "that they have applied and paid their dues to The Registry Collection and will still become and affiliate when it has the construction completed." So your statement above is not at all correct. In addition, Belaire has indicated that in the interim they have purchased inventory and weeks for members use. So, what you have posted is completely false.   If you are an active member you can confirm this with Belaire member services and the travel group.



Look at the section from the letter that was sent by Jonathan to the members concerning the Registry Collection. The complete letter is my post #292. I don't see where it says they will still become and affiliate when when it has the construction completed" as you've stated.


----------



## Enrico

Article from Street Talk re: PROFECO in Puerto Vallarta:  http://streettalkblog.com/?cat=28    2nd one down in the archive, date October 3rd


----------



## Jane Doe

wediditinvallarta said:


> My wife and I have been owners with Belaire for over 4 months and we feel very comfortable with the progress there. We have already booked our our weeks for the Marriot there in Vallarta for our next vacation.
> I suggest you see it yourself. If you dont trust it dont buy into it. Why risk trying to cancel later.
> 
> And it sounds like many of you have no idea about the 3 month rainy season there that can delay contruction. I know delay sucks but Belaire will be open in 2009



well, I worked there for one week in Feb. 2007 and not much has been done since then. This is the reason that if you tour the property once they don't allow you to tour again, it is the only resort I have heard of anywhere that doesn't permit you to ever come and see it again. So it was supposed to be up and running by Aug. 2007 and finished the spring of 2008. Well, obviously it is still not up and running. Just for comparison, the Riu Palace was started last November and is opening any day. So what is wrong with the time frame on a much much smaller resort?? Riu is about 1000 rooms, Belaire is only supposed to be what 150 or less? Besides read your contract belaire is not going to guarantee you can ever get in, it is on availability. Do you really believe they have not over sold it already. It is only one resort with thousands and thousands of owners now, just look at this bbs, and how many are not on here. Funny, though everything else gets built in the rainy season, as it only rains at night. Icon Vallarta is and was under construction all summer, same with Tres Mares, Penninsula, Aqua (which is also equally far behind), so many other condos like Nitta, Los Agaves, Villa Magna, and the list goes on. None stopped for the season. Can you imagine if everything here stopped just because of a little rain? LOL, 200,000 people out of work instantly just for the rain. Nothing changes here in the summer, it is just fewer tourists, and you drive slower in the construction areas because the roads get bad. So word to the wise, THEY'RE NOT BEHIND BECAUSE OF THE RAIN!!


----------



## Jane Doe

Great Dane said:


> Well, since the post has been reopened I now have the opportunity to provide more facts.
> 
> First, I find it quite appauling that some of my earlier posts prior to the closing of this thread were completely removed.  That definitely shows that this thread is not an unbiased source of information to those who may think and use TUG as a means for obtaining truthful facts.
> 
> So, I will reiterate what I said before in response to the post about Belaire being two years late.  Belaire has not even been around for two years so it cannot be two years late.  Again, this is another complete lie posted on this thread to try to give Belaire an undeserving bad image.  As was discussed in an earlier post, the expectation was completion in September of 2008.  Therefore, it will probably be about 6 - 8 months behind the orginal schedule.



Sounds like you work there or own it? Actually Belaire opened 2 years ago this month. Hmmmm, Since I worked there in Feb of 2007 that would make it at the very least, what 18moths??? and still not open?? Plus now, no helicopter pad and all the other pluses everyone was promised. All of your posts are very biased towards Belaire. One person in Vallarta commited suicide because his wife was going to leave him over them being broke, all because he had stayed working there believing in it. They owed him more than 200,000 dollars. Still think you didn't over pay? Plus the "manager" lady was owed 162,000 dollars when she quit. So I am sure they will for sure come through for their customers. I had one sale in the week I was there, funny it was never in the computer.


----------



## Jane Doe

Snappy Sam said:


> Unfortunately for anyone who hoped to have access to the Registry Collection as a Belaire owner, that is no longer a possibility. After speaking with their representatives we learned that they were not getting the information updates they requested from Belaire.
> Thast was confirmed by Jonathan Thomasello in his letter to the Belaire Owners which I previously posted.



As I posted before, they never had their own RC (Registry Collection) book, it was stolen by Nico from the Grand Mayan sales room. It even said GM in it on the outside and on the first page it said Grand Mayan. The week I worked there I saw so many things that were shady I left, one week was more than enough.


----------



## Jane Doe

P.S. Jonathan Thomasello (spelling is wrong I know) is Antonio's son. They have different names because Antonio has changed his several times.


----------



## Great Dane

Snappy Sam said:


> Look at the section from the letter that was sent by Jonathan to the members concerning the Registry Collection. The complete letter is my post #292. I don't see where it says they will still become and affiliate when when it has the construction completed" as you've stated.


 
You obviously don't get all the Belaire communications or if you do, you only want to post those that you actually think are bad news.  It was confirmed way down in this thread by another poster that checked with The Registry Collection and Belaire's status.  What was being referred to in the newsletter communications when they said "it didn't work out they way the hoped" is that Belaire expected that when it paid its developer dues and the member fees for each new member that the members would be able to use the services right away not when the building was completed.  Obviously, Belaire cares about their members and their ability to use their membership services so the did what it takes to put something in place.


----------



## Great Dane

Jane Doe said:


> Sounds like you work there or own it? Actually Belaire opened 2 years ago this month. Hmmmm, Since I worked there in Feb of 2007 that would make it at the very least, what 18moths??? and still not open?? Plus now, no helicopter pad and all the other pluses everyone was promised. All of your posts are very biased towards Belaire. One person in Vallarta commited suicide because his wife was going to leave him over them being broke, all because he had stayed working there believing in it. They owed him more than 200,000 dollars. Still think you didn't over pay? Plus the "manager" lady was owed 162,000 dollars when she quit. So I am sure they will for sure come through for their customers. I had one sale in the week I was there, funny it was never in the computer.


 
All of my posts are biased towards Belaire because I have proven all of the other information here biased against Belaire to be false.  I am a member and I purchased in early 2007.  I checked with the resort and they opened late in December 2006 so as I said they have not been around for 2 years yet.  I was never promised there would be a helicopter pad.  And if you only worked there for one week and haven't worked there for over a year and a half they I have a hard time believing any of what you say to be true.


----------



## Great Dane

Jane Doe said:


> This is the reason that if you tour the property once they don't allow you to tour again, it is the only resort I have heard of anywhere that doesn't permit you to ever come and see it again.  Just for comparison, the Riu Palace was started last November and is opening any day. So what is wrong with the time frame on a much much smaller resort?? Riu is about 1000 rooms, Belaire is only supposed to be what 150 or less? Besides read your contract belaire is not going to guarantee you can ever get in, it is on availability. Do you really believe they have not over sold it already. It is only one resort with thousands and thousands of owners now, just look at this bbs, and how many are not on here. Funny, though everything else gets built in the rainy season, as it only rains at night. Icon Vallarta is and was under construction all summer, same with Tres Mares, Penninsula, Aqua (which is also equally far behind), so many other condos like Nitta, Los Agaves, Villa Magna, and the list goes on. None stopped for the season. Can you imagine if everything here stopped just because of a little rain? LOL, 200,000 people out of work instantly just for the rain. Nothing changes here in the summer, it is just fewer tourists, and you drive slower in the construction areas because the roads get bad. So word to the wise, THEY'RE NOT BEHIND BECAUSE OF THE RAIN!!


 
Again, your so called knowledge is not based on fact.  None of the timeshare resorts allow people to take multiple tours.  They all have databases of previous tours so that they don't end up paying for people to come on tours that just want the money and gifts but have no intention of purchasing.

Belaire did not stop development during the raining season.  I chronicled my three visits to PV this year in an earlier post and the status of construction during each of my visits and it has not ever stopped.  Belaire has never made any excuses about being behind because of the rain.  Belaire has always kept its members updated on construction progess and other activities of the resort through its news letters.  They were forthright in acknowledging they were behind schedule due to having to put the building piers into the ground 120 feet rather then their original plans of 33 feet.

As a comparison, I happened to sit on the plane my last trip down, next to the person in charge of construction of the St. Regis being built in Punta Mita.  You will see that they broke ground over two years ago
http://www.puntamita.com.mx/resorts_st_regis.htm
on 120 rooms and the web site indicates they expected and early 2008 opening and as it turns out they will open on November 22, 2008.  So, it is behind schedule by roughly 6 months and will have taken longer than Belaire to complete.

First, your information is incorrect.  Second, the information proves nothing.  The RIU Palace is 484 (not 1000) much smaller rooms than Belaire and yes it was completed in 1 year from the time they broke ground.  It is 9 stories the same as Belaire and Belaire will complete in nearly one year from the time it broke ground (Feb 2008) as well.


----------



## pammex

Great Dane said:


> Again, your so called knowledge is not based on fact.  None of the timeshare resorts allow people to take multiple tours.  They all have databases of previous tours so that they don't end up paying for people to come on tours that just want the money and gifts but have no intention of purchasing.
> 
> Belaire did not stop development during the raining season.  I chronicled my three visits to PV this year in an earlier post and the status of construction during each of my visits and it has not ever stopped.  Belaire has never made any excuses about being behind because of the rain.  Belaire has always kept its members updated on construction progess and other activities of the resort through its news letters.  They were forthright in acknowledging they were behind schedule due to having to put the building piers into the ground 120 feet rather then their original plans of 33 feet.
> 
> As a comparison, I happened to sit on the plane my last trip down, next to the person in charge of construction of the St. Regis being built in Punta Mita.  You will see that they broke ground over two years ago
> http://www.puntamita.com.mx/resorts_st_regis.htm
> on 120 rooms and the web site indicates they expected and early 2008 opening and as it turns out they will open on November 22, 2008.  So, it is behind schedule by roughly 6 months and will have taken longer than Belaire to complete.
> 
> First, your information is incorrect.  Second, the information proves nothing.  The RIU Palace is 484 (not 1000) much smaller rooms than Belaire and yes it was completed in 1 year from the time they broke ground.  It is 9 stories the same as Belaire and Belaire will complete in nearly one year from the time it broke ground (Feb 2008) as well.




Just a few comments with all due respect......construction continues in Mexico all through rainy season....anywhere from June-Oct. give or take....day or night as well.

I beg to differ on the comment that all resorts disallow multiple tours.  That is absolutely false.  Many resorts have a 6 month or one year rule for return tours for free gifts and such, but they do allow multiple tours, after the 6 month or one year rule has lapsed!    I have yet to find a resort in Mexico that does not allow multiple tours.....I was not even aware that Belair did not allow multiple tours.  

Being behind schedule in Mexico is not uncommon..but usually within a short time frame ..say give or take a week, month, or maybe a few months.  This long drawn out delay does certainly seem overboard.  ( I am confused on the statement that Belair has not been around 2 years, yet many posters have stated they bought in 2007, well we are very close to 2009, so that would be 2 years.  yes?

To clarify my humble position I did not join TUG to post just negatives about different areas or resorts but to gain more knowledge positive and negative about all aspects of timeshareing.  I too. was a guest once, and as has been stated all guests are welcome.  I felt this was and is a great informative site with an immense amount of knowledge and wonderful, informative posters.  I believe this site has helped many and will continue to do so.  I know I have been helped more times than I can count, so for me a membership was a necessity and I feel honored to be a member, and was more than welcome as a guest as well.  

I am pleased that the thread in regards to Belair has been reopened and hope all will continue to abide by the rules so this thread can continue to help others.......obviously any positive results should be posted here as well...

As an afterthought, while on vacation I did post regarding the reopening of Profeco but in a different relocation in Puerto Vallarta for anyone in need of it.  I can not recall exactly but think I posted it as a seperate post.

Once again I wish to all involved good luck and to all not involved, ( but wanting to be in Belair) just do your due diligence, proceed with caution and then make your decision.


----------



## aliikai2

*Hi Anthony*

It is nice that you finally came here to play instead of sending your employees. I love your screen name,of course you are * The Big Dog*...






Great Dane said:


> All of my posts are biased towards Belaire because I have proven all of the other information here biased against Belaire to be false.



You haven't proven anything as false, you have as the rest of us have expressed your opinions, that isn't proof. 



> I am a member and I purchased in early 2007.  I checked with the resort and they opened late in December 2006 so as I said they have not been around for 2 years yet.



This is almost November 2008, when we toured last year on November 10, 2007 we were promised completion by early 2008, in fact we were told that the units would be ready to use by March or April 2008.


> I was never promised there would be a helicopter pad.



We were promised a yacht and in house chefs, how are those things coming ?? 


> And if you only worked there for one week and haven't worked there for over a year and a half they I have a hard time believing any of what you say to be true.


I also have a very hard time believing your postings as truth. We and others will be in PV in the next few months, we may stop by to see how well your doing. 

Greg


----------



## Blondie

*on topic posts only


----------



## Great Dane

[_Message deleted. If you wish to keep posting, please feel free to post your opinions or your view of the facts. But do not accuse others of lying again or you will likely be permanently banned from posting._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


----------



## Great Dane

*keep things on topic or they will be deleted


----------



## Great Dane

*keep things on topic or they will be deleted


----------



## Great Dane

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa facts*



aliikai2 said:


> You haven't proven anything as false, you have as the rest of us have expressed your opinions, that isn't proof.
> Greg


 
The people posting on this BBS claim to be here to help with valid information to allow informed decision making.  I have shown that the majority of information posted on this thread is simply unsubstantiated opinions, false accusations and complete lies about Belaire Golf Resort and Spa which are not supported by facts.  Let me summarize what the true facts are about what has been said.  These facts can all be verified by anyone who does a little homework and most of these have been verified by individuals other than myself in postings in this thread.  In spite of the evidence, they continue to make more false statements and make more negative comments for which they can offer no proof of their claims.

Tuggers said in Post #50 and 91 - “[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']their (Belaire’s) contract is not registered with the PROFECO office[/FONT].”  Calls to PROFECO have proven that the company that owns Belaire Golf Resort and Spa is a member of PROFECO and their contract has been registered and filed with PROFECO.  In addition, customers have gone to PROFECO and confirmed that is the case, see post #109.  Belaire adheres to the governing rules as has been shown by a few that have decided to rescind their purchase and properly received their money back.  Belaire Golf Resort and Spa is also a member of the American Resort Developers Association (ARDA) as can be seen at www.arda.org/apps/mbrshp/directory/index.cfm?dir=corporate&id=1354160.

Tuggers said in Post #50 “[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']the so called owners never had plans to build any hotel there, this is called a hit and run operation.[/FONT]”  Through email correspondence in one of the earlier posts it was shown that Belaire Golf Resort and Spa contracted with one of the largest Spanish engineering and architecture firms, IDOM, to design the building.  Idom’s own website (www.idom.com) showcased the Belaire project for a period of time and one of their 2008 newsletters has a significant story about the uniqueness of Belaire Golf Resort and Spa.  Construction has been underway for over 6 months and can be watched on the live webcam Belaire Golf Resort and Spa has set up on their website (http://www.belairevacationclub.com/belaire/press.html).

Tuggers said in Post 202 and 204 – “Fake web cam, Belaire has sunk to new lows.”  Several people that have gone to Puerto Vallarta recently have confirmed that the webcam is indeed showing exactly what is taking place on the site.  As an example, see post #310.

Tuggers said in Post 287– “abeit two years late.”  Again, not true and the facts support otherwise.  You can look at press release of when they first started (www.pvmirror.com/localnews/188-enero-2007.html).  It was December 11, 2006 when they first announced plans to begin.  This was actually when they began to put up the temporary facilities for the sales room and models.  The earliest they ever indicated the resort would be operational was in mid 2008.  Even in post 169 it is stated that members were told completion in September 2008.  Yes, they are behind this schedule but will only be about 8 months from their plan not two years.  That does not make them a bad resort or bad people.  All of us bought pre-construction as it states on the contract which comes with all the things that go along with it.  Potential benefits for getting in early in exchange for the possibilities of delays.

Tuggers said in Post #318 “access to the Registry collection as a Belaire owner is no longer a possibility.”  Belaire has stated it has full intentions to be an affiliate member of The Registry Collection.  A call to the Registry Collection confirms this, see post #182.

Tuggers said in Post #43“a Belaire email address that does not work-shocking.”  Belaire Golf Resort and Spa has had the same phone number, website and email addresses from the beginning.  I have had every email I ever sent responded to.  I am not saying their customer support is perfect but then I haven’t found any organization that is.  They have sent newsletters to their members on a regular basis.  In fact, one was even posted here in post x292 supporting that very point.  In addition, those people that indicated they had cancelled successfully via email also disprove your statements.

Let’s look at one additional fact.  Who are those making the postings on this thread?  To date there are 335 postings.  The breakdown is as follows:
Pammex (43 posts) – Claims to live in PV, has mostly negative things to say about resort but it isn’t clear why.
Sappy Sam (41 posts) – Not a Belaire member, cancelled his contract and has made it a point to put down the resort ever since.
KarenG/DaveM/TUG Brian (37 posts) – These are the TUG moderators who have never been to Belaire and know nothing about the resort but have a bias towards the negative viewpoints.
Brucecz (33 posts) – Not a member, didn’t like something in the contract and made it personal crusade to blast anyone who had anything positive to say about Belaire.
Blondie/Fidji (28 posts) – Appear to work for competitors and have no facts but all bad things to say.
Jane Doe/PuertoVallarta Girl (10 posts) – Disgruntled ex-employees who were both there for less than one month.
Others (28 posts) – These are generally 1 or 2 posts each of people who have decided to cancel because of the untruths and accusations those of you have made and so gleefully supported their decision.
mterra/zara/judy23/Mule/Great Dane (70 posts) – Just a few of the names that are actual Belaire members.  These may include both positive and negative statements, or in some instances just questions they would like answered.
Miscellaneous (45 posts) Neutral comments or unrelated content.
So, of the 335 postings, 192 represent the opinions of a mere 10 people who have negative things to say but generally have no firsthand about Belaire Golf Resort and Spa or two who cancelled for their own personal reasons and want to make that the same reason everyone else should do as well.  If you remove those posts that that are neutral or unrelated and those of the 28 that cancelled because of what they read here then 72% of the posts are from these ten individuals.  Again, to verify all you have to do is use the ”Who’s posted?” feature and you will see the proof.  So, if you think you are getting an unbiased set of information here please think again.


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## pammex

Great Dane......life is not fair....and I do not think any of us can demand the owner of the site to do anything.....

I have no clue who you are....but I must say when I toured Belair I was told many untruths which I posted many, many threads ago, so I do not think posters are lying but just sharing their personal experiences with Belair and what they were told.  

A proven fact is Belair is not open, not usable, and way behind schedule.  I do not see any way around that fact.


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## pammex

Apparently I have had 43 posts....just my experiences with this resort, be they negative or not.  I thought my posts were pretty clear on my views and impression.  

I believe most people buying timeshares or fractional or full time ownership units in Mexico are adults and savvy buyers research before purchases.  

I am not dissuading anyone from Belair, just sharing my experiences and observations and things I was told while at presentation.  

I have repeatedly stated the show room units were beautiful, but beyond that what positives can I share............

I guess in 8 months more time when project is completed, we will all know if we made right decisions in our own decisions to purchase, resind or not purchase.


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## Great Dane

pammex said:


> Great Dane......life is not fair....and I do not think any of us can demand the owner of the site to do anything.....
> 
> I have no clue who you are....but I must say when I toured Belair I was told many untruths which I posted many, many threads ago, so I do not think posters are lying but just sharing their personal experiences with Belair and what they were told.
> 
> A proven fact is Belair is not open, not usable, and way behind schedule. I do not see any way around that fact.


 
I have never said that each shouldn't make their own decision and I also indicated in an earlier post that it may not be for everyone.  I am just providing my inputs here like everyone else.

But there is also a difference in what is an opinion, an untrue accusation and a fact.  Facts can be verified.  Opinions are just that.  Untrue accusations are lies.


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## esk444

Great Dane said:


> If post 335 is not a personal attack towards me then what is????????????????
> 
> Again, you are biased in your adherance to the posting rules.
> 
> I demand that you be fair!!!!!



Before you demand anything from the moderators, you might want to thank them for the thousands of hours they've spent volunteering to help this site.


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## Great Dane

Pursuant to my earlier remarks.  For those like Dave M. and Aliikai2 who apparently don't know.

In law, *defamation* (also called *calumny*, *libel*, *slander*, and *vilification*) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience. 

Statements are being made on this public bulletin board which effect how the information I am posting is viewed and who I really am.  Equally those statements that are made against Belaire as a business are considered in the same light.


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## esk444

Great Dane said:


> Pursuant to my earlier remarks.  For those like Dave M. and Aliikai2 who apparently don't know.
> 
> In law, *defamation* (also called *calumny*, *libel*, *slander*, and *vilification*) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
> Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.
> 
> Statements are being made on this public bulletin board which effect how the information I am posting is viewed and who I really am.  Equally those statements that are made against Belaire as a business are considered in the same light.



Good luck with that lawsuit.  Let us know how your anonymous "Great Dane from California" persona's reputation has been harmed.


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## brucecz

Great Dane said:


> Pursuant to my earlier remarks.  For those like Dave M. and Aliikai2 who apparently don't know.
> 
> Statements are being made on this public bulletin board which effect how the information I am posting is viewed and who I really am.  Equally those statements that are made against Belaire as a business are considered in the same light.




If as in your post you seeming state do not want to be viewed who you are not, the best  way to cure that is  is so very simple.

To cure your perception problem you  posted about, you could post under your real name like some of us  do. 


Bruce


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## aliikai2

*Hi Big Dog*

Please feel  free to point out to me what I posted that rises to the level of *defamation* (also called *calumny*, *libel*, *slander*, and *vilification*) ?? 

You certainly appear to be more involved with the Belaire than a regular purchaser?? Are you sure you don't have more invested than your $150K purchase of of your Executive Suite?

Or was it the additional purchase ?



> I have visited Belaire Golf Resort and Spa on three occassions this year, the last time being about 3 weeks ago (mid August) and have been treated wonderfully each visit. I have seen many of the same faces with a few new ones, I have seen continuous work occuring on the construction site during each week I was there and have met many other happy owners (both existing and new).
> 
> *I have since purchased an additional unit since I realize what Belaire has to offer. My plan is to retain one unit and to rent the other and eventually probably sell it.*



We see quite a few owners post here regarding their resorts, and a certain amount of pride of ownership does filter through in their posts.

Your posts on the other hand appear to be much more intense, like you are taking our opinions about this resort very personally.

We aren't attacking you, we are merely expressing our opinions and I am sorry if you somehow feel offended.

I can see how if you have 300K invested that you would wish for the resort to be completed, but to come here and try to discredit those posters that have told their stories and shared their opinions, well that just isn't in the spirit of the BBS.

jmho,

Greg




Great Dane said:


> Pursuant to my earlier remarks.  For those like Dave M. and Aliikai2 who apparently don't know.
> 
> In law, *defamation* (also called *calumny*, *libel*, *slander*, and *vilification*) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
> Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.
> 
> Statements are being made on this public bulletin board which effect how the information I am posting is viewed and who I really am.  Equally those statements that are made against Belaire as a business are considered in the same light.


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## SteveHCMM

I used to think of TUG BBS as a great resource to get information about the resorts from both members and non-members. This thread it seems that (some of the) members imply that I am insignificant becase I am "only" a guest. Gee, thanks, that really makes me want to join.

I don't understand why someone would even post something like _"As Ann Landers used to say, "If you throw a stone into a pack of dogs the one who is hit will bark." I can hear yelping all the way up here in New England!"_ as their whole post. To me that is a waste of time and not beneficial to anyone... Can't we stick to relevant points instead of kindergarten name calling?

Ok, enough of that. Back to the real reason for my post, something relative to the topic...

Belaire now has a blog, hopefully, if everything is on the up and up we will see useful, factual information posted there on a regular basis.
http://belairevacation.blogspot.com/

Happy Friday!
Steve


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## Great Dane

*complaining about moderation is also against posting guidelines.


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## Great Dane

aliikai2 said:


> Your posts on the other hand appear to be much more intense, like you are taking our opinions about this resort very personally.
> 
> I can see how if you have 300K invested that you would wish for the resort to be completed, but to come here and try to discredit those posters that have told their stories and shared their opinions, well that just isn't in the spirit of the BBS.
> Greg


 
Yes I do consider it personal as I happen to have pride and interest in supporting my investment here.  I have never had a problem with anyone here expressing opinions.  I have not discredited anyone's opinions.  I have said more than once that if it is not right for someone to own that is their own decision.  I do have problems when people make claims that are not based in fact which can be proven to the contrary and make false accusations.  Statements that fit the definition I posted, and there are many in this thread, cannot be condoned.  In every one of my posts I have tried to point to facts that can be verified.


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## aliikai2

*Your rewritting of history is interesting,*

Your 1st post as Great Dane was posted Sept 18 at 8:59 PM board time, and you came out swinging at Bruce 




> brucecz,
> 
> Why do you feel it is necessary to badger and try to suggest that every member of Belaire that posts on this forum has a motive and can't possibly believe that what they purchased is legitimate?
> 
> What exactly is your motive?
> 
> I have been reading these postings for about 8 months and finally decided it was time to join to respond to people like you and others that are great with lots of opinions (look at how many messages in this tread include IMHO) which are not backed with facts.
> 
> Just so that you don't question my motives. I am a Belaire member and I did not receive anything when I made my purchase.




Then your spin continues,


> Belaire Golf Resort and Spa
> You are trying to intimidate me as you did the others. As always you want to claim I am someone else, I am an employee of the company, or I am not a real member.
> 
> This BBS was intended to have people provide their experiences so that others can make their own decision about whether to purchase a particular interest in a property, stay at a resort, to take a trip to certain destinations, etc. It is not to become your personal mouthpiece for whatever axe you have to grind. You have clearly shared your views now let others share theirs. Each time you feel you must have the last word on someones post. If they ask for feedback that is one thing but most do not. They are telling their thoughts and whether you feel they are right or wrong that is their own belief just as you have yours.
> 
> It is one thing to let people know they can rescind their purchase if something doesn't feel right. It is not right to tell them that they should go recind because you think what you do. That comment goes to many others on this thread as well.


*We as a general rule advise anyone that isn't 100% sure that making a retail purchase of a timeshare to rescind while they can, as the deal will always be available later, but if they don't rescind they owners for the length of the contract.*



> *My motive is to post my experience so that others can have a different view other than yours and those that I feel you have unduly tainted.*



and it goes on with



> Belaire Golf Resort and Spa
> *I am willing to address any issue you or any one else have raised or will raise.*
> 
> Let's start with the exchange issue since that has been highlighted. Maybe everyone needs a little education about exchanges and how they work. When you purchase a right to use vacation property, you generally have some number of registered and unregistered weeks or whatever the resort decides to call them. In Belaire's case they are mandatory and optional. Your registered week or weeks are those that are your's at your home resort. You have the option of using that week at your home resort or banking it and choosing to trade that time for time at another resort. The unregistered week(s) are those that you can additionally use at your home resort or anywhere and do not require any kind of banking. I am using the term exchange to include both these situations because in both cases you are utilizing inventory from an exchange company even though only in the first instance are you actually exchanging the time.
> 
> Belaire cannot participate with an exchange company for purposes of banking and trading your registered weeks until the building is complete and you actually have something to trade. That should be fairly obvious and has been confirmed by the exchange companies that Belaire has said they have planned to operate with. However, Belaire can and does have the ability to obtain special inventory from these exchange companies to provide to their users to stay at other locations. Of course, they have to buy this inventory and it appears that is what they have done.
> 
> As an example, I was given an "exchange" at Velas in PV for one of my stays through the Belaire Concierge and Travel Center which is a property in the Registry Collection. On another occassion I wanted to go to Cancun and I had my choice of several RCI member properties. These were properties I couldn't get through my normal RCI timeshare exchange because it turns out they sell the weeks that get banked out on the wholesale markets so that the timeshare owners can't get them but others can.
> 
> So, while you would like to say they have lied about being part of exchange companies they do have inventory available for their members from the exchange companies. In fact, access to places that RCI could not get for me under my timeshare exchange rights. And as has already confirmed in one of the earlier posts, Belaire have submitted their paperwork to be part of the Registry Collection when the building is ready.
> 
> Next topic please.



Do you see why we suspect that you are involved with the company?
 You come off as the know all to end all about everything related to Timeshares and the Belaire.



Great Dane said:


> *From the moment I logged *on to this supposedly open and free resource simply to express my own thoughts and opinions, which happened to be contrary to  the majority of people here, I have been badgered, told I am less than others because I am a guest, told I am a Mule, have been purported to be someone who I am not, and have seen the moderators act very inconsistently in the application of posting rules.  These things I do consider offensive.
> 
> Also, as the definition I posted directly from Wikipedia points out everyone can express opinions but *false *and damaging accusations are not considered opinions under the law.



The key word in this definition is False, and nothing that I have posted is false, I may be incorrect in my assumption that you are Anthony, but everything else I have posted is true or my opinion, both of which I am more than willing to defend. 


To come here and attempt to get some of us to back off our informational stance , your private messages to the boards owner and moderators, the posts on Redweek about how TUG closed this thread because of the threat of a lawsuit, all these things add up to a preponderance of evidence for all to see and evaluate for themselves, which is what we do here on the oldest, most respected timeshare user group bbs.

fwiw,

Greg


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## TUGBrian

and another reminder, off topic posts...or those violating posting guidelines are going to be removed.


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## brucecz

SteveHCMM said:


> ...
> 
> Belaire now has a blog, hopefully, if everything is on the up and up we will see useful, factual information posted there on a regular basis.
> http://belairevacation.blogspot.com/
> 
> Happy Friday!
> Steve



Thanks  Steve for the suggestion  to go to that sites blog to learn about the progress made that we may have been unaware of.  

I would suggest that others do the same to see what I saw before they  maybe “Update” and change the “Blog” ad text. The construction pictures on the Blog  seeming directly contradict the ads text posted by the Belaire on that Blog.

 I could not help notice the Blog ad's glowing terms  tend to portray them as already being built and being in use. Most  those things that are mentioned are not remotely close to being in use as they are not yet constructed or usable at the present time and the pictures on the blog are the proof.

Look and judge for your self at the blogs glowing description of the "Supreme location" that has no beach and has the noise from the airport near by.

There is no thruthfull information indicating that the units are not available for use or that they will not be available for use at the earliest until sometime next year.

Check for yourself he sites ad text  about the   “Belaires rich and Famous lifestyle”, etc at the resort. Some of you may find that description interesting in light of that seeing no buyers can or could have stayed at the resort in  non existent owners Towers per  the pictures on that Blog.

Judge for yourself if  Blog seems to be a nice PR piece that  except for the pictures contains little  correct  progress information.

Does any one feel that  appears upon inspection that the pictures attack the creditability of the blogs text?

Bruce


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## pianodinosaur

This thread has been very educational. We are planning a trip to Puerto Vallarta in the next 2-3 years and have not yet decided where to stay.  I will not put in a request for the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa nor will I go to their sales presentation. 

I have only had the pleasure of visiting Mexico on four occasions.  I would not have done so had it not been for timesharing.   Since joining tugbbs as both a guest and as a member I have learned a great deal from aliikai2, pammex, pittle, and brucecz regarding timesharing in Mexico.  These members have far more expertise in this field than I or just about anyone else who participates in this forum.  Most posts by these members are in other threads that I have enjoyed reading. 

This thread is unique in that some members seem to under attack.  I understand that tugbbs is not a democracy and that this thread has been closed before.  I would like to see this thread remain open because I have learned so much about the complexities associated with purchasing property in Mexico.


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## brucecz

pianodinosaur said:


> This thread has been very educational. We are planning a trip to Puerto Vallarta in the next 2-3 years and have not yet decided where to stay.  I will not put in a request for the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa nor will I go to their sales presentation.
> 
> I have only had the pleasure of visiting Mexico on four occasions.  I would not have done so had it not been for timesharing.   Since joining tugbbs as both a guest and as a member I have learned a great deal from aliikai2, pammex, pittle, and brucecz regarding timesharing in Mexico.  These members have far more expertise in this field than I or just about anyone else who participates in this forum.  Most posts by these members are in other threads that I have enjoyed reading.
> 
> This thread is unique in that some members seem to under attack.  I understand that tugbbs is not a democracy and that this thread has been closed before.  I would like to see this thread remain open because I have learned so much about the complexities associated with purchasing property in Mexico.



Thank you, but the other 3 and many other long time members on this site  are far more talented posters and more Knowlegdeable about Mexico than I am. 

But IMHO there are some great resorts in Puerto Vallarta  of differant styles that are honest and treat their timeshare owners with  respect and do honor their promises.

But thanks again for your kind posting but most Mexican resort ownerships usage and selling rules are not that complicated.

But you are correct that you do your due dilagence and get a copy of the resorts rules and condo documents if possible before signing.

Bruce


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## pammex

pianodinosaur said:


> This thread has been very educational. We are planning a trip to Puerto Vallarta in the next 2-3 years and have not yet decided where to stay.  I will not put in a request for the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa nor will I go to their sales presentation.
> 
> I have only had the pleasure of visiting Mexico on four occasions.  I would not have done so had it not been for timesharing.   Since joining tugbbs as both a guest and as a member I have learned a great deal from aliikai2, pammex, pittle, and brucecz regarding timesharing in Mexico.  These members have far more expertise in this field than I or just about anyone else who participates in this forum.  Most posts by these members are in other threads that I have enjoyed reading.
> 
> This thread is unique in that some members seem to under attack.  I understand that tugbbs is not a democracy and that this thread has been closed before.  I would like to see this thread remain open because I have learned so much about the complexities associated with purchasing property in Mexico.



Thank you for your kind words and appreciation of us posters.  I just love this site and timesharing.  I also love the timeshares I do own in Mexico.  And many times have even liked many of the timeshares I have exchanged into in Mexico but did not buy as well I think I might have too many timeshares already, although there are many who have far more than me.  I am still learning for sure.  I try to share my experiences regarding timeshares in mexico and travels and such for those who wish to purchase in mexico or just exchange or travel there.  

I have been advised by posters from various posters to avoid Mexico timeshares but I have still purchased and have done very well.  For that matter think timesharing has become a monster in my family.  My son ( just turned 18) and yes he went and bought a timeshare on Ebay ( dirt cheap), so he could have his own.  We were at the resort when he called us and asked us to do due diligence at the resort for this particular purchase, we own there as well.  He bought a studio in Mazatlan, but we had me put on contract as well just in case he has any issues with MF's or lifestyle changes etc.  So guess we can add another Tugger to the ropes a youngster but he has a jump on me as I had to learn so much after my first purchase he has learned much from traveling with us, hearing me talk of what I have learned on Tug etc.  

I too hope this thread stays open as it has proven to be very valuable to many.  Myself included.  

I have shared my experiences with Belair, my opinions, and things I have been told, nothing more, nothing less.  I have also shared pictures.  My opinions are of course, just that my opinions, the things I was told at Belairs presentation are also just that...things I was told, can I prove them as fact no, but I shared them just for enlightenment of others to what I personally had been told.  I have done the same for many other timeshares throughout Mexico and other places.  

I do not feel I have any expertise, and as I stated still learning.  I have learned so much from other posters.  I will continue to share my experiences and also to learn on this site.



brucecz said:


> Thank you, but the other 3 and many other long time members on this site  are far more talented posters and more Knowlegdeable about Mexico than I am.
> 
> But IMHO there are some great resorts in Puerto Vallarta  of differant styles that are honest and treat their timeshare owners with  respect and do honor their promises.
> 
> But thanks again for your kind posting but most Mexican resort ownerships usage and selling rules are not that complicated.
> 
> But you are correct that you do your due dilagence and get a copy of the resorts rules and condo documents if possible before signing.
> 
> Bruce



Bruce, I think your posts are great...and you are a talented poster and have shared much valuable info here on this thread as well as many other threads.  

I find you to be very well informed on Mexico timesharing and do not think I know any more than you regarding timeshares in Mexico.  It all boils down to as you say due diligence, and well reading on sites such as this sure gives you the upper hand.  

You are so right there are many wonderful resorts in Puerto Vallarta and all throughout Mexico that are very honorable, treat their members wonderfully and honor their contracts etc., some even go beyond for you.  We own a few in Mexico that they truly treat us like family when we return.

Keep up your fantastic, helpful posts, as shown by the previous poster you are an asset, as are the other posters on Tug!  

Next up for me...learning the rental process....have been slow to get on that band wagon....but am going to tackle it soon....so I can buy more timeshares LOL.  I am addicted to timeshares and vacations...oh dear!!!


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## TimeShare Junky

*Curious*

I have bee watching progess with the camera's and it seems to me that the cement that has been poured has not progressed for two weeks. Is there some Mexican law that allows a super slow progress and still is considered being built. This allows the Belair property owners to use it as a sales mechanism to get more cash flow by selling a dream.

At the end of that time when all sales have been squeezed out of the future owners, he files bankrupcy and keeps the property and land per the contract.

Is this an unrealistic vision ?

Other Concern:

Per my contract my deposit of my week goes into II, this was not negotialble and this is not so. Belair was suppose to buy back my weeks (4 or 5) each year and they have not done so. I bought two years ago, can I still go to Perfeco in December when I return to PV. 

Does anyone else feel the same way?


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## brucecz

TimeShare Junky said:


> I have bee watching progess with the camera's and it seems to me that the cement that has been poured has not progressed for two weeks. Is there some Mexican law that allows a super slow progress and still is considered being built. This allows the Belair property owners to use it as a sales mechanism to get more cash flow by selling a dream.
> 
> At the end of that time when all sales have been squeezed out of the future owners, he files bankrupcy and keeps the property and land per the contract.
> 
> Is this an unrealistic vision ?
> 
> Other Concern:
> 
> Per my contract my deposit of my week goes into II, this was not negotialble and this is not so. Belair was suppose to buy back my weeks (4 or 5) each year and they have not done so. I bought two years ago, can I still go to Perfeco in December when I return to PV.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the same way?




Sorry to hear of your plight.  Maybe The Great Dane can be of some help as he seems to know the ins and outs of Belaire ownership. He just recently posted (post # 253) that he bought another Belaire package. 

When you say buy back your weeks, did you mean rent them out for you or buy the whole ownership(s).  Did you mean weeks numbered 4 and 5 or 4 or 5 ownership weeks?

We were told  during our Belaire presentation and it has been posted on this string not long ago by one Belaire “owner” that they would buy back the ownership contracts  at the end of 2 years at double of the buyers paid for them.

We were also told by Marcos the Belaire  wanted renters because  then the Belaire would have the opportunity to try and get those  renters to buy. I forgot what Marcos said the Belaire units were going to rent out for? Do you remember if they quoted what they were supposed to rent out for, and what you were supposed net per rental?

Is that basically what you were told about the buy back and rentals?

You would not have anything to lose by going to Perfeco and showing them your contracts if you feel that the Belaire has not honored their contracts.

We wish you good luck and please keep all of us advised of your progress. 

On a positive note, you have some great ownerships listed.

 We had a chance to visit your Ocho about 6 or 7 years ago as a guest of a Tug member. We were so impressed we wrote a Tug review. Is the Ocho nearly at the end of their RTU? I have heard that they may or may not offer new RTU contracts.


We will be in PV from Dec 28 to Jan 10, 2008. When will you be there in December?

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Karen,
> I know this is a long time in the future but my wife and I will be in Mexico from January 2, 2009 through April 24, 2009. We will be in the Marina area for this entire time period.  We will visit Belaire at various times and attempt to report to TUG members.  Since my wife and I are owners at Belaire we do not believe we will have any trouble accessing the site.
> Maybe this problem will be resolved by the time we get to Mexico but I doubt this will happen.
> Thank you for your help on this matter.



We will be in PV from Dec 28 to Jan 10, 2009 and also will also try to find time to get pictures.



Bruce


----------



## pammex

TimeShare Junky said:


> I have bee watching progess with the camera's and it seems to me that the cement that has been poured has not progressed for two weeks. Is there some Mexican law that allows a super slow progress and still is considered being built. This allows the Belair property owners to use it as a sales mechanism to get more cash flow by selling a dream.
> 
> At the end of that time when all sales have been squeezed out of the future owners, he files bankrupcy and keeps the property and land per the contract.
> 
> Is this an unrealistic vision ?
> 
> Other Concern:
> 
> Per my contract my deposit of my week goes into II, this was not negotialble and this is not so. Belair was suppose to buy back my weeks (4 or 5) each year and they have not done so. I bought two years ago, can I still go to Perfeco in December when I return to PV.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the same way?



Sorry to hear of your situation....nothing ventured, nothing gained...I would go to profeco anyway with all your paperwork!!!  Best Wishes.  

My hubby & I basically got the same impression from contract...none of my other Mexico timeshares have such wording in them...


----------



## lovemylabradoodle

*Registry collection*

Belaire is now being listed as a coming soon resort for Registry Collection properties. I believe it says opening winter 2008.


----------



## aliikai2

*Shucks Ma'am, ya'll make me blush*

I just can't sit idly by and ignore the mis-truths and sales puffery that some have posted.

 I hope for all of you that actually made an investment in the Belaire, that it does get built, and that you are able to enjoy all the promised amenities.

My advice to all others is that *unless you have a lot of extra money that you don't need*, treat a purchase here like  gambling on a high risk stock,* If you win, you win big, if you lose, you lose it all. *

fwiw,

Greg



pianodinosaur said:


> This thread has been very educational. We are planning a trip to Puerto Vallarta in the next 2-3 years and have not yet decided where to stay.  I will not put in a request for the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa nor will I go to their sales presentation.
> 
> I have only had the pleasure of visiting Mexico on four occasions.  I would not have done so had it not been for timesharing.   Since joining tugbbs as both a guest and as a member I have learned a great deal from aliikai2, pammex, pittle, and brucecz regarding timesharing in Mexico.  These members have far more expertise in this field than I or just about anyone else who participates in this forum.  Most posts by these members are in other threads that I have enjoyed reading.
> 
> This thread is unique in that some members seem to under attack.  I understand that tugbbs is not a democracy and that this thread has been closed before.  I would like to see this thread remain open because I have learned so much about the complexities associated with purchasing property in Mexico.


----------



## pammex

aliikai2 said:


> I just can't sit idly by and ignore the mis-truths and sales puffery that some have posted.
> 
> I hope for all of you that actually made an investment in the Belaire, that it does get built, and that you are able to enjoy all the promised amenities.
> 
> My advice to all others is that *unless you have a lot of extra money that you don't need*, treat a purchase here like  gambling on a high risk stock,* If you win, you win big, if you lose, you lose it all. *
> 
> fwiw,
> 
> Greg



Very well said, my sentiments as well.  Your posts too, are great keep em coming!!!


----------



## SteveHCMM

lovemylabradoodle said:


> Belaire is now being listed as a coming soon resort for Registry Collection properties. I believe it says opening winter 2008.



I finally found what you are referring to here:
http://www.theregistrycollection.com/registry_portfolio/coming_soon/

It says:
Belaire Golf Resort & Spa, Puerto Vallarta	Opening Spring 2009

Shall we consider this good news, or do they have The Registry Collection snowed too?


----------



## mikenk

Since this seems to be a thread that never ends, I decided last night while fighting insomnia to read through it. it seems to be a fascinating soap opera with lots of twists, turns, and human emotion. While I think I got the jest of the story - when and if it will be completed. What I don't understand is the promise and allure that attracted buyers for what I deduct as a $150k pricetag.

I love going to PV having stayed at several resorts that I think were all great, but none had prices approaching that even at the inflated sales game. I assume that Bellaire has something really special that separates them dramatically from the rest; can someone enlighten me so I can better understand the story as it continues to unfold?

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

SteveHCMM said:


> I finally found what you are referring to here:
> http://www.theregistrycollection.com/registry_portfolio/coming_soon/
> 
> It says:
> Belaire Golf Resort & Spa, Puerto Vallarta	Opening Spring 2009
> 
> Shall we consider this good news, or do they have The Registry Collection snowed too?



RCI (which runs Registry Collection) has a history of signing up resorts that are never built.  The Basil Jones resort scam is one that comes to mind.  In that case buyers were actually given bonus RCI weeks to use pending buildout of the resort.  Another couple that come to mind are a timeshare resort in Homer, AK - construction started, the site was graded, then suddenly work stopped and never restarted.  There was also a Biltmore Resort in Bullhead City.

So I would say that being "affiliated" with an exchange program doesn't really establish anything.  There's really no liability to the exchange company to accept a planned resort into the book; as long as the exchange doesn't accept any weeks from the developer until the resort is actually ready to open the exchange company doesn't incur any liabilities or risks.

And since developers are the real customers for RCI (and II) RCI has lots of reasons to try to accommodate developer requests, especially when RCI doesn't acquire any liabilities.


----------



## brucecz

mikenk said:


> Since this seems to be a thread that never ends, I decided last night while fighting insomnia to read through it. it seems to be a fascinating soap opera with lots of twists, turns, and human emotion. While I think I got the jest of the story - when and if it will be completed. What I don't understand is the promise and allure that attracted buyers for what I deduct as a $150k pricetag.
> 
> I love going to PV having stayed at several resorts that I think were all great, but none had prices approaching that even at the inflated sales game. I assume that Bellaire has something really special that separates them dramatically from the rest; can someone enlighten me so I can better understand the story as it continues to unfold?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike



Mike, maybe if you check out the first 2 strings you will get some more background  of all of the promised Belaire deadlines that have been missed, the wild claims of profit to be made, the amount of amenities that will not happen, the weasel clauses in the contracts  that have been exposed.

The 3 exchanges companies that the Belaire said people could exchange with was proved a lie and  that proof was shown in the 2 links that I posted included TPI and another exchange company besides the Registry Collection. 

The simple  fact is as of today even if you  had spent $300,000 with the Belaire  2 years ago you  still can not make any trades or  any exchanges  today with those 3 exchange companies that the Belaire bragged about in their presentations using  the Belaire to exchange.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

Jane Doe said:


> As I posted before, they never had their own RC (Registry Collection) book, it was stolen by Nico from the Grand Mayan sales room. It even said GM in it on the outside and on the first page it said Grand Mayan. The week I worked there I saw so many things that were shady I left, one week was more than enough.



Steve HCMM, I respectfully submitt that according to the above this posting  number 328 on this string posted on October 9, 2008  made just only  12 days ago it said that the Belaire was using a stolen Registry Collection book.

Seeing that I was shown a Registry Collection (maybe the same book) book by Marcos over a year ago as was told that the Belaire was a  active exchanging member at that time with 3 exchanges companies including the Registry Collection. 

The 3 exchanges companies that the Belaire said people could exchange with at that time was proved  to be a lie and  that proof was shown in the 2 links that I posted included TPI and another exchange company besides the Registry Collection. 


The Registry Collection inventory  access we were told could be used be almost immediately as Marcos said the Belaire had some type of "credit" program with the  Registry Collection to allow for almost immediate exchanges with the Registry Collection. 

This  Registry Collection inventory could be accessed almost  immediately after the right of rescission had passed. (of course Marcos did not put that in writing). That was one of the reasons why we signed that day.

Does the Belaire have the Registry Collection snowed? 
No they do not because no confirmed exchanges with the Registry Collection can be made using the unbuilt Belaire units can not be made today. 

But as posted some where in this string by one of the Belaire  own supporters the Belaire had paid membership fees of some type to the Registry Collection. 

So even if the Belaire did not open,  the simple fact is the Registry Collection has made money off of the Bellaire. But during the mean time the Belaire can use that posting on the  Registry Collection website as part of their sales pitch.


But the more important question is IMHO , has the Belaire deliberately snowed, mislead and lied to many  of the buyers about the Belaire having access using the promise of almost immediate access  using unbuilt Belaire inventory? 


According to the many who indeed bought they feel that they were snowed into believing they would have almost immediate exchanges with the Registry Collection. 

That claim of access to was and still is as of today a out and out bold face lie made to snow people into buying thinking they have at this time today if signing direct and immediate  access to the  Registry Collection inventory using their Belaire ownership. 

Yes, the Belaire has  used that Registry Collection inventory False promise for over at least one year now  to IMHO snow many  into become    buyers with the Bellaire. Like I said above  we were promised access to the Registry Collection inventory after the right of rescission has passed using unbuilt Belaire inventory.

Fortunately we recinded and do not have the heartache, worry and the fear eating at our guts that we got ripped off and have to cling to the apparent flase promises posted on the 3 strings by some that may be shillls.

I do feel sorry for those who have been jerked around by a many false promises made by the Belaire over the last year or more.  

Even if the Belaire does in fact get built in 2009, 2010 or when ever,  the contract terms may leave the buyers in a very precarious situation in regards to future usage and ongoing costs despite the Belaire claims. 

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

SteveHCMM said:


> I used to think of TUG BBS as a great resource to get information about the resorts from both members and non-members. This thread it seems that (some of the) members imply that I am insignificant becase I am "only" a guest. Gee, thanks, that really makes me want to join.
> 
> I don't understand why someone would even post something like _"As Ann Landers used to say, "If you throw a stone into a pack of dogs the one who is hit will bark." I can hear yelping all the way up here in New England!"_ as their whole post. To me that is a waste of time and not beneficial to anyone... Can't we stick to relevant points instead of kindergarten name calling?
> 
> Ok, enough of that. Back to the real reason for my post, something relative to the topic...
> 
> Belaire now has a blog, hopefully, if everything is on the up and up we will see useful, factual information posted there on a regular basis.
> http://belairevacation.blogspot.com/
> 
> Happy Friday!
> Steve



Steve or any one else that is familiar with bigger building projects. I looked at the pictures on the Blog a few minutes ago?  

Are those called  footings or are called something else that is  a little further along in the building process?  Thanks in advance for the information.

Bruce


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Spring is 6 months away, what is the feasability of Belaire being ready to welcome guests at that time (Spring 2009). Current building speed, decorations and building approvals. I think it not be ready for close to a year.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Personally, I find it extremely interesting that all of the people who are posting so positively about Belaire:

1. only post about Bellaire

2. only post when they happen to be in Puerto Vallarta.

The second point is extremely interesting given the earlier shout-out by a mod about how some people claiming to not be in Mexico were posting from Mexican IP addresses.

¡Pues! That certainly provides a convenient explanation as to why posts lauding the Belaire might all originate from Mexican internet addresses.

++++

As I posted in another thread today, I readily concede there is a possibility that these posts that  have been questioned as shill posts are genuine.  Similarly, living in Seattle I will readily concede that there is a possibility that this winter we will have 30 consecutive days with no rain and cloudless skies.

If I were laying odds, I would give better odds of there being a cloudless month in Seattle than I would that most those laudatory posts about Belaire are genuine posts.


----------



## ValHam

Went to Belair Marina PV this week - October 20-27th ,and it really doesn't look like the completion date looks bright or even possible for December 31, 2008.  A matter of fact I never seen a bigger water hazard on a golf course in my life. The construction workers (who don't look like they are working) probably, in my guess getting 40 bucks a day to walk around with hardhats and look like some construction going on. 
Nice appliances in show suite, nice fixtures etc , etc..... At end of presentation my words to sales rep, I do not buy a pig in a poke.... unfortunatly he had no idea what I was talking about..... Good Thing I guess he didn't know.... Wise Up "investors", this is not an investment nor a timeshare..... Its a hole in the ground filled with water , where you can put your hard earned or retirement money.... Keep Your Timeshares...... and enjoy what you have, they are tangible. 
2 things to look for:
1: hows the coffee
2: on automatic paper towels, how much paper is dispensed? 3-4 Inches ,low budget place or financial unstable, more that 8 inches , promising !!


----------



## gr8grover

*Need some Belaire advice*

I have been checking into this thread for the past couple of weeks and reading the posts about the Belaire Resort.

I was in PV in July and attended the presentation at Belaire with Marcos.  Like many on here we were very impressed and bought a junior suite for 4 weeks a year.  We paid the deposit and agreed to sell them one of our other timeshares and pay the balance in 90 days.  

90 days has come and gone and after reading many of your posts and not getting any calls returned from the Belaire Resort they are calling for their money.  I have not yet signed over my other timeshare or paid the balance owed on my contract.  

Needless to say, I am very leary about going forward with them.  My other timeshares are at the Fiesta Americana and the Grand Mayan and we are very happy with them and have never had problems.  

What are the repercussions if I ignore their calls and don't send them the balance.


----------



## Karen G

gr8grover said:


> What are the repercussions if I ignore their calls and don't send them the balance.


Your credit rating might be adversely affected.  If you have any issues with the contract you signed, you should get in touch with Profeco as others have mentioned in this thread.


----------



## brucecz

Karen G said:


> Your credit rating might be adversely affected.  If you have any issues with the contract you signed, you should get in touch with Profeco as others have mentioned in this thread.



Karen, you raised a interesting point about credit ratings that might be adversely affected. Maybe the Belaires lack of construction progress might be do to their line of credit have been  adversely affected over the about past 2 years. I am not saying that it has been affected, I am just asking and looking for a answer.

Belaire April 24, 2008 Footings being poured. Now 6 months later I just looked at the Blog and that picture after I refreshed it, does not indicate much progress for a full 6 months.

If anyone refers back to post number 22  on this string by a Belaire supporter  posted on April 24, 2008, please note that  will mark that it was 6 months ago that the footings were being poured.

A lot of us have posted and wondered why even though there was a 3 month rainy season that may have  slowed down construction progress,   why during the 3 months of  excellent non rainy weather what other reasons  may be the cause why more construction  progress has apparently seeming not been made? 

Months before the construction delays were said to be caused that they were changing construction companies. 

Could it be that there is not enough money to pay for needed materials, labor, etc to make more easily visible progress ?

Now with the world wide credit crunch is the Belaires construction financing becoming a real ongoing  problem?  Maybe ongoing construction financing problems the  reason for the constant long delays for over the past year for very little construction progress being shown?

I remember Marcos alluded to some type of  performance bond during the presentation, but I have no idea if it was worth the paper it was printed on.
Maybe it was just a building permit of some kind, etc.

But I do not remember  if that paper mentioned any bank  being named guaranteeing a construction financing loan to complete this projected project. I wonder  as of today if any bank  is guaranteeing any loan if there were any possible loan payment defaults?  

Can one of the Belaires supporters or someone else verify which bank or group of  banks in what location or locations are at this present time maybe guaranteeing  a loan to completion of the whole projected Belaire project?

It would be nice if someone would supply of a verifiable letter showing that the financing is in place that would be a postive sign and help assure some of people who still have money sunk into the Belaire project.

If there is no postive response in a day or two that can be verified then some may assume that there is no loan in place guaranteeing the money to complete this project.

But we hope for those buyers who have money sunk into the Belaire that there will be a postive posting about the Belaire having the money to finish this building project.




Bruce


----------



## Dave M

brucecz said:


> It would be nice if someone would supply of a verifiable letter showing that the financing is in place that would be a postive sign and help assure some of people who still have money sunk into the Belaire project.
> 
> If there is no postive response in a day or two that can be verified then some may assume that there is no loan in place guaranteeing the money to complete this project.


I don't believe your premise is valid, Bruce. You're asking for something that isn't reralistic to obtain. Companies generally don't share such correspondence with individuals. Thus, if no one posts such a letter, that shouldn't suggest that financing isn't in place.


----------



## brucecz

Dave M said:


> I don't believe your premise is valid, Bruce. You're asking for something that isn't reralistic to obtain. Companies generally don't share such correspondence with individuals. Thus, if no one posts such a letter, that shouldn't suggest that financing isn't in place.




Dave,  I think that I would  have agree what you posted makes good common sense in most cases as I belive you have for more experiance in this area with you being a accountant. 

I did notice on our Belaire contract that we cancelled on September 13, 2007 states on the cover page provided by the Belaire proceeding the 8 page contract, the following bank information was supplied by the Belaire on their cover page.

Here is that Information word for word as best as I could copy it and to a degree what I based my question on.
_______________________________________________________________

International Bank Wire Information

Name: World Resorts Marketing Enterprises S de RL de CV

Account number *removed...dont post personal account numbers online*

Clabe Number :*removed*

Bank:HSBC 
Suc 940 Aeropuerto Puerto Vallarta

Bank  Address: AV. Franicisco M. Asencio s/n Loc.17 P.B. Edif.1 Col.Las Flores C.P. 48856 Purto Vallatra, Jal.

City: Puerto Vallarta

State:Jalisco

Country: Mexico

ABA Code *removed*

Swft: *removed*

_________________________________________________________________

I understand this cover page does not say anything about this bank supplying the Belaire with a bussiness loan. But it does show a working relationship at one time. I wonder if they are still the bank were the buyers payments are to be sent?

So, I wonder if this might be a  bank that might be the one bank (or part of a group of banks)that might have been originally behind the loan seeing Belaire buyers payments were to be sent to them as of  September 11, 2007 when we signed the contact on that date? We cancelled on September 13, 2007. 

I guess because I feel in our case it is to our advantage to post on our timeshare rentals than we volunteer that we are more than willing to share copies of our ownership and/or copies of our confirmed  reservations. 

 I feel  that gives us a edge seeing we have established our financial creditability when most others do not post that info in their ads.  We have had customers tell us that info offer of our was one of the desiding factors why they rented from us,

I learned from experience that to have more success in bigger ticket sales items when asking for the order (rental, sale, etc) you have to establish that you can in fact deliver beyond a doubt on all written and verbal promises. 

In fact besides displaying industry awards we also displayed a letter from our bank stating that we had paid off the mortgage on our 5,000 square foot office show room. That fact established our financial creditability. 

But again, I given to understand  that your professtional expertise in this area surpasses my  experiances with my small business that I once had.

Bruce


----------



## Jane Doe

TimeShare Junky said:


> I have bee watching progess with the camera's and it seems to me that the cement that has been poured has not progressed for two weeks. Is there some Mexican law that allows a super slow progress and still is considered being built. This allows the Belair property owners to use it as a sales mechanism to get more cash flow by selling a dream.
> 
> At the end of that time when all sales have been squeezed out of the future owners, he files bankrupcy and keeps the property and land per the contract.
> 
> Is this an unrealistic vision ?
> 
> Other Concern:
> 
> Per my contract my deposit of my week goes into II, this was not negotialble and this is not so. Belair was suppose to buy back my weeks (4 or 5) each year and they have not done so. I bought two years ago, can I still go to Perfeco in December when I return to PV.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the same way?



The good news is even the though the Profeco office is closed here, they are still here. Now they are mobile, and stationed in front of the Sheraton at the stadium. The other good news is here if you file bankruptcy you lose your property and all the owners still have their rights and the government runs it. Can someone tell me how to post a picture on here. I have pictures for you guys bu can't figure out how to put it up in my post.


----------



## mterra

This is the same information I have, as of Aug 2008
Mary


International Bank Wire Information

Name: World Resorts Marketing Enterprises S de RL de CV

Account number *removed - dont post personal account numbers online please*

Clabe Number :*removed*

Bank:HSBC
Suc 940 Aeropuerto Puerto Vallarta

Bank Address: AV. Franicisco M. Asencio s/n Loc.17 P.B. Edif.1 Col.Las Flores C.P. 48856 Purto Vallatra, Jal.

City: Puerto Vallarta

State:Jalisco

Country: Mexico

ABA Code *removed*

Swft: *removed*


----------



## Karen G

Jane Doe said:


> Can someone tell me how to post a picture on here. I have pictures for you guys bu can't figure out how to put it up in my post.



See post #19 in this thread.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

I took a look at the Cam's today looking at the Belaire work site. Does anyone question why they are not working weekends ? When they are so behind is schedule, you would think they would work outside bankers hours.


----------



## aliikai2

*That is great news!!*

Thanks for taking time to let us know the new location. 

Greg



Jane Doe said:


> The good news is even the though the Profeco office is closed here, they are still here. Now they are mobile, and stationed in front of the Sheraton at the stadium. The other good news is here if you file bankruptcy you lose your property and all the owners still have their rights and the government runs it. Can someone tell me how to post a picture on here. I have pictures for you guys bu can't figure out how to put it up in my post.


----------



## Great Dane

aliikai2 said:


> Do you see why we suspect that you are involved with the company?
> You come off as the know all to end all about everything related to Timeshares and the Belaire.
> -------------------------------------------------
> The key word in this definition is False, and nothing that I have posted is false, I may be incorrect in my assumption that you are Anthony, but everything else I have posted is true or my opinion, both of which I am more than willing to defend.
> 
> 
> To come here and attempt to get some of us to back off our informational stance , your private messages to the boards owner and moderators, the posts on Redweek about how TUG closed this thread because of the threat of a lawsuit, all these things add up to a preponderance of evidence for all to see and evaluate for themselves, which is what we do here on the oldest, most respected timeshare user group bbs.
> 
> fwiw,
> 
> Greg


 
I haven't been on in a while because I have better things to do than to waste my time here but I will respond to your posting.

To your first comment.  I have not tried to say I am all that knowledgeable about Timeshare or Belaire.  I am however, able to do my homework regarding subjects that people claim to know so much about but can be proven otherwise.  I also know much more about Belaire as a current member and what I have been able to utilize from my membership than those that are not members and therefore have no real clue, only speculation and assumptions. 

Yes, "false" is the key word.  And if something is not true, then it is false.  Again, people can state their opinion, but if it is an untrue statement and is harmful to someone or their business or reputation then it doesn't matter what you call it, it meets the definition.

Again, you said I was Anthony. That is false.

I have not come here to "back anyone off their informational stance".  I merely have provided my opinions which just happen to support a different side of the story and some facts that can be verified.  So, again your statement is false.

Your statement about my "posts on Redweek about how TUG closed this thread because of the threat of a lawsuit."  I have never been on that site which again is false.

Therefore, to your first point about why I logged onto this site to begin with and came out as you say "swinging" because just like in your post with at least three absolutely false statements there are dozens more exactly the same.  just a bunch of false statements.


----------



## aliikai2

*Thanks Big Dog*

For posting more of your opinion,  :whoopie:  

Greg


----------



## Great Dane

aliikai2 said:


> For posting more of your opinion,  :whoopie:
> 
> Greg


 
Again, I will have to provide the proper clarification for you.  There were no opinions in my post.  I posted a set of facts.


----------



## pianodinosaur

Great Dane said:


> I haven't been on in a while because I have better things to do than to waste my time here but I will respond to your posting.
> 
> Great Dane:
> 
> Glad to see you wasting your time again responding to a posting here on TUGbbs.  I guess that must be what we are all doing.  Welcome to the club.


----------



## PamF

Has anyone besides me noticed that the "live webcam" pictures have been exactly the same for quite some time?

If it took this long to build all structures in Mexico, nothing would have ever been built.

I hope all the folks who bought in are not taken to the cleaners on this but nothing seems to be getting done.


----------



## Blondie

PamF said:


> Has anyone besides me noticed that the "live webcam" pictures have been exactly the same for quite some time?
> 
> If it took this long to build all structures in Mexico, nothing would have ever been built.
> 
> I hope all the folks who bought in are not taken to the cleaners on this but nothing seems to be getting done.





Yes, others have noticed the webcam issues and it was mentioned awhile ago. It is neither an incredibly clever nor original scheme to show the same images, if, indeed, that is what is being shown. :hysterical: :hysterical:


----------



## taffy19

We just looked at camera #1 and saw two people working.  The link is here (both pictures) but you need to refresh camera 1 and 2 constantly on my old Mac.  They certainly haven't advanced much in all these months.  We may go and visit it next January to see what is going on and take some pictures too.  

PS.  I just looked at camera #2 too.  Same two people so not a big crew of workers.


----------



## Great Dane

I guess the roughly 15 tons of concrete, in my estimation, for the foundation that was not there 8 weeks ago doesn't constitute much for those who don't understand construction.

I watch the web cams everyday and while one or the other of them may have problems from time to time for an hour or two, they are most always working.  On Monday, I counted 9 workers on the site.


----------



## Jane Doe

iconnections said:


> We just looked at camera #1 and saw two people working.  The link is here (both pictures) but you need to refresh camera 1 and 2 constantly on my old Mac.  They certainly haven't advanced much in all these months.  We may go and visit it next January to see what is going on and take some pictures too.
> 
> PS.  I just looked at camera #2 too.  Same two people so not a big crew of workers.



ok, attempting pictures. THis is sunday. Today I went by and only 5 people were working.:zzz:


----------



## Jane Doe

Jane Doe said:


> ok, attempting pictures. THis is sunday. Today I went by and only 5 people were working.:zzz:



again


----------



## Jane Doe

Great Dane said:


> I guess the roughly 15 tons of concrete, in my estimation, for the foundation that was not there 8 weeks ago doesn't constitute much for those who don't understand construction.
> 
> I watch the web cams everyday and while one or the other of them may have problems from time to time for an hour or two, they are most always working.  On Monday, I counted 9 workers on the site.



and I guess the fact that the RIU Palace went up in less han a year and is 5 times the size of Belaire doesn't say anything to you, or the fact that Penninsula Plaza and Condo towers (3 of them) were up and 2 were finished in less than 2 years. How can a "multi-million" dollar company have only 5 workers working? or we can use your number of 9? it makes no sense, they should have at least 20 - 50, don't you think? That is how things actually get accomplished. You think 5 or 9 people can build a hotel of more than 20 rooms?


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Do you think they are going to pour the walls or will they be dropped in ?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

pianodinosaur said:


> Great Dane said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been on in a while because I have better things to do than to waste my time here but I will respond to your posting.
> 
> Great Dane:
> 
> Glad to see you wasting your time again responding to a posting here on TUGbbs.  I guess that must be what we are all doing.  Welcome to the club.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note the amount of time that Great Dane invests wasting his time respond to postings critical of Belaire.  In fact, GD invests so much effort in doing so and attempts to be so thorough that it's clear GD doesn't really regard those efforts as a waste of time.
> 
> It's much the response I would expect of someone who has a vested interest in the resort, and not at all the response that would be expected of someone with a casual, passing involvement.
Click to expand...


----------



## KarenLK

I remember watching the Royal Resorts building the Mayan, Caribbean, Islander, and then the Sands. There were always so many laborers that from a distance they looked like ants crawling over the place. 
At this rate, the Belaire won't be finished til about 2015.


----------



## Great Dane

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> pianodinosaur said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note the amount of time that Great Dane invests wasting his time respond to postings critical of Belaire. In fact, GD invests so much effort in doing so and attempts to be so thorough that it's clear GD doesn't really regard those efforts as a waste of time.
> 
> It's much the response I would expect of someone who has a vested interest in the resort, and not at all the response that would be expected of someone with a casual, passing involvement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just about as interesting as you spending time here making posts with no useful information whatsoever.
Click to expand...


----------



## pianodinosaur

Great Dane said:


> T_R_Oglodyte said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just about as interesting as you spending time here making posts with no useful information whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I am the one being responded to or if TROglodyte is the one being responded to.  However, I am certain that my current post offers no useful information whatsoever.  On the other hand, I have learned a great deal of information from the Cave Dweller on this thread and on many other threads as well.
> 
> Shakespeare's fictional Danish Prince Hamlet was a great procrastinator.  It would appear that there has been a great deal of procrastination when it comes to building the Bellaire resort.  I may be wrong but, Me thinks something is rotten in Denmark.
Click to expand...


----------



## Blondie

Well, time will tell. Really, what the Mexican shills say is not the issue. Their vehemence in protecting this project says it all. The work that has been completed and the work that has not- is what speaks volumes. Anybody who bought there should be concerned. If the resort manages other issues the way it manages its construction then there is serious cause for alarm. Excuses only go so far- where are the results?


----------



## timeshare junkie

I have watched this post for 7 months and feel sorry for the people who invested $ and I hope when the dust [mud] settles they win and own a resort they can enjoy for many years. We will be in Nuevo for 3 weeks in December and are looking for a presentation challenge. Happy to take their money if they pay the $.
Good Luck to the investors.
Bill & Linda


----------



## jrsdwilson

*Timeshare $$$$$*

Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
However, we try and do at least  3 Crimeshare  (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR)  should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and  Belaire.
I love the way  the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
If I am wrong great.
Cheers,
John


----------



## Jane Doe

jrsdwilson said:


> Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
> In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
> It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
> However, we try and do at least  3 Crimeshare  (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
> March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
> And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR)  should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
> I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and  Belaire.
> I love the way  the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
> I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
> Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
> I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
> If I am wrong great.
> Cheers,
> John



That is the problem with puerto vallarta, the opc's here are so stupid. The more the resorts pay the more they give. Does anyone besides you make enough to feed their family. I work in this because I live here, it pays the bills feeds my son, and we live ok. My husband works hard as well. We are honest and I always give to the couples what I promise. This is your vacation, but it is our job, did you ever stop to consider how much are you allowing the person to make that is inviting you? Do they deserve to make more than $200 PESOS? I think that I deserve to make more than a can of formula costs. When I go to work each day I have to pay for daycare, and transportation to work whether by car or bus. We don't go to your job and take all of your days pay...Someone should sometime and then tell you they are helping you out. You are not helping us out we don't need your kind of business. You are called a stroker, and here is a tip, even the opc's don't like strokers. I work hard I am honest and I work for a good company, I rarely have complaints about the presentation, and out of over 600 couples I have had one complaint personally (it was from a stroker). My husband sells timeshare, do you think you are being fair to his child when maybe you are taking his only chance for the day? He sells it honestly and so we make a living it is not the big bucks when you do it honestly. I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour. Yes, anything that is too good to be true, probably is, but not all companies or timeshare people are crooks, drugaddicts, or thieves.


----------



## Jane Doe

Jane Doe said:


> again



too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....


----------



## Karen G

Jane Doe said:


> too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....


I don't believe anyone on TUG deleted your pictures.  Maybe it was some glitch with Photobucket.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Jane Doe said:


> too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....



That graphic was served up by Photobucket because the photo is no longer stored in Photobucket at the place where you linked to it.  That almost always means that the person with the Photobucket account either deleted the photo from Photobucket or moved the photo to a different folder at Photobucket.  If it's your Photobucket account, the pictures aren't showing because *you *did something at Photobucket to break the links.

It wasn't anything that happened here.


----------



## Karen G

Jane Doe said:


> I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour.


I think your anger is misplaced a bit.  Why are you mad at the tourists who are hounded by the OPC's into signing up for a tour?  The developers came up with this marketing scheme and apparently it is working pretty well for them because they keep doing it.

When I take a timeshare tour in Mexico it is because I was invited to attend and promised gifts to give up some of my vacation time to listen to a sales pitch.  If that method of getting sales prospects is upsetting to the sales people then they should take up their complaints with management or find some other line of work.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Jane Doe said:


> I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour.



I don't understand.  I thought the OPC made money by getting people to sign up for tours.  So how would it hurt that person's income if I sign up for the tour?

Everytime we have contact with one of those people who books tours (whether it's someone at a booth or the concierge at the resort (whose primary job is to funnel people into the sales room) we make clear that we are just looking and have no intention of buying.  Nevertheless they are extremely eager to get us signed up.


----------



## pammex

The OPC's do make money for getting the tourists to go to the presentation..that is their job to convince people to go and that is what they are paid for......the less they give the touring person, the more they pocket....

The OPC's job is to funnel people in...the tourists job is to give up time of their precious vacation....maybe they will buy, maybe not.....

Seems like a lot of misplaced anger.  

Strokers are people who just go to timeshare presentations to get the gifts etc., in return for their time.  A stroker is one who does this frequently and has no intention of buying but let's face it, many as you say strokers do end up buying...there is no opportunity to sell, if no one attends the presentation....so it seems that your anger is misplaced.......

With the economy as it is in states you may want to be careful of anger at strokers or others, they are your prospects and without them you get nothing.  People will be traveling less and less as the economy dives, so preoceed with caution in being mad at tourists as they may been greatly decreased.  

Sorry you are having a hard time in your daily living now.....hope it improves.


----------



## Sponge

> PostEd buy Jane Doe:  That is the problem with puerto vallarta, the opc's here are so stupid. The more the resorts pay the more they give. Does anyone besides you make enough to feed their family. I work in this because I live here, it pays the bills feeds my son, and we live ok. My husband works hard as well. We are honest and I always give to the couples what I promise. This is your vacation, but it is our job, did you ever stop to consider how much are you allowing the person to make that is inviting you? Do they deserve to make more than $200 PESOS? I think that I deserve to make more than a can of formula costs. When I go to work each day I have to pay for daycare, and transportation to work whether by car or bus. We don't go to your job and take all of your days pay...Someone should sometime and then tell you they are helping you out. You are not helping us out we don't need your kind of business. You are called a stroker, and here is a tip, even the opc's don't like strokers. I work hard I am honest and I work for a good company, I rarely have complaints about the presentation, and out of over 600 couples I have had one complaint personally (it was from a stroker). My husband sells timeshare, do you think you are being fair to his child when maybe you are taking his only chance for the day? He sells it honestly and so we make a living it is not the big bucks when you do it honestly. I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour. Yes, anything that is too good to be true, probably is, but not all companies or timeshare people are crooks, drugaddicts, or thieves.


                                            So what are you called when you get a couple to sign up for a bottle of Tequila and a couple of Mexican Blanket's????


----------



## fidji

jrsdwilson said:


> Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
> In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
> It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
> However, we try and do at least  3 Crimeshare  (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
> March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
> And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR)  should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
> I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and  Belaire.
> I love the way  the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
> I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
> Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
> I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
> If I am wrong great.
> Cheers,
> John




thats kind of vacation income only a _[inappropriate language deleted]_ would agree to do that and mess with the work of a professional sales persont hey are a lot honest companies and sales persons who make theyr living in the vacation industry


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## brucecz

It seems the most of those claiming to be selling  Puerto Vallarta Timeshares for the developers posting here,  do not mention the resort that they are working for.

If you are really proud of your resort and your resorts sales ethics please share with us what resort developer you are selling for and what you think makes your resort and it's sales ethics outstanding.

Thank you for sharing your insights with us.

Bruce


----------



## pammex

Sponge said:


> So what are you called when you get a couple to sign up for a bottle of Tequila and a couple of Mexican Blanket's????



A vacationeer who lost a lot of time on vacation for very little money for their time.  LOL.  And the OPC who brought person is gets a hefty chunck, since lets face it what is a bottle of tequila worth and a Mexican blanket..tops $50., so the OPC, made a killing........and if you bought....even more money...

The people working these jobs do quite well sometimes,and they chose to do this job and the vacationeer chose to do the presentation, so both win.  

I have to confess we did a few years ago for blankets, T-Shirts, and cheap tequila....now we know out time is worth more than that.  

I was offered a great deal once at Palace resorts while on an exchange, as the salesman said, I did not have to pay an off the street guy to get you here, so that is worth a chunk of advertisement money etc......

It is amazing how much money is spent to get people into presentations, it is their form of advertisement.  

Also it takes two to tango and the off the street guy usually knows if you are a stroker, so the game goes...one hand washes the other, you go along with the game and I get my cut....hmm...

Many who are considered strokers, do end up buying.....so may have gone in as stroker but ended up buyer....win, win...well at least for the salesmen, and hopefully for the buyer....

Jane Doe:  This is how it is all over the world for salesmen...do you think all the people vacationing live this extraordinary rich life and have no children to feed.  They work hard for their money too.  It is all part of the job...on some you make 200pesos and lets say on others 1000, 2000 or maybe more pesos...hey...  It is your job to get them to go with the least amount of bennies and then it is their job to sit for who knows how many hours on vacation, listening to professional sales tactics, whether they be good or bad, with much high pressure.....be fair, it works both ways and how much more do you get if they buy??  Just because people have money for a vacation does not mean they are rich...and have money to throw away...

Do you feel bad for them when they maybe bought under pressure and are not happy and have put themselves in financial straits?  Or maybe ruined their credit, or lost their retirement funds.....be fair.....I have never seen a vacationeer beg to go on a presentation, it is the other way around...


----------



## Karen G

pammex said:


> Jane Doe:  This is how it is all over the world for salesmen...do you think all the people vacationing live this extraordinary rich life and have no children to feed.  They work hard for their money too. . . .  Just because people have money for a vacation does not mean they are rich...and have money to throw away...
> 
> Do you feel bad for them when they maybe bought under pressure and are not happy and have put themselves in financial straits?  Or maybe ruined their credit, or lost their retirement funds.....be fair.....I have never seen a vacationeer beg to go on a presentation, it is the other way around...


Pam, thanks for your great post.  You explained things so very well.  Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.

I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in.  I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there.  When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.


----------



## pianodinosaur

Karen G said:


> Pam, thanks for your great post.  You explained things so very well.  Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.
> 
> I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in.  I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there.  When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.



Timesharing is definitely not for everyone.  However, I have worked hard for many years and find that I really need to get away for my own sanity.  Timesharing has forced me to do that and I have no regrets.  However, I dealt with Hilton, not with Bellaire. The Grand Mayan may have a high pressure sales pitch but they also have a resort to be proud of.


----------



## pammex

Karen G said:


> Pam, thanks for your great post.  You explained things so very well.  Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.
> 
> I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in.  I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there.  When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.



 Thanks Karen I appreciate the compliment....

WE own many timeshares and have bought developer and resale and we are in that 99%, said we would never buy a timeshare....:hysterical: We love every one we own, and do not feel we were tricked into buying either, maybe a few little fibs on bennies like renting and such, but for us,  we are very happy with what we do own and we use them, and yup they did sell themselves.  

I also agree with the pianodinasaur The Mayans have high pressure but they certainly do have nice resorts, and I have always received good treatment from them.  

And yes I hope Jane Doe reads this along with the salespeople and OPC's.  Be fair, we all struggle to make a buck!!!


----------



## pammex

repeat post...no clue what is up but seems every post I am making is duplicating....weird!  Really sorry...


----------



## Jane Doe

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I don't understand.  I thought the OPC made money by getting people to sign up for tours.  So how would it hurt that person's income if I sign up for the tour?
> 
> Everytime we have contact with one of those people who books tours (whether it's someone at a booth or the concierge at the resort (whose primary job is to funnel people into the sales room) we make clear that we are just looking and have no intention of buying.  Nevertheless they are extremely eager to get us signed up.



Not mad at the tourists, but at the whole way it is now. The real problem is the opc's at certain resorts, the more the resorts pay the more they offer, which means in the end they still make next to nothing even if they are getting paid alot. But not all of the resorts pay alot. Some pay much less than others, and now you may say so why work there? The answer is because once you sign with one company, you cannot switch. It takes weeks to be able to switch and costs thousands of dollars (I mean usually about 6,000 or more and that is dollars and the opc has to pay that) so usually you are stuck where you are at, and if you do decide to switch then you are also without work for weeks on top of the thousands you have to pay. There are other aspects involved as well that make it more complicated being a foreigner. The problem is that the opc's that offer nearly everything they make, make it so nobody here makes very good money. To make the same as we used to we need to take 3 couples to make what we used to with one. I don't mind giving the tourist a good deal, but I think that if you are asking for more than 3000 pesos, you are not allowing the person here to make a good living. The problem stems from the fact that most of the opc's do drugs all the time, and most of the companies pay the same day, so if you agree to go for 500 dollars then maybe if he works for mayan or mammann he makes 40 dollars so he can go buy some coke to be able to work more to go buy more coke. The problem is that the people that have families and work hard now are also only making 40 dollars because they have to match what the crackhead down the street offered because obviously they want the best deal right? So how can you afford to feed a family when for each couple you only make 40 dollars. I believe that a good deal for the customers and a good deal for the opc is a fair arrangement. I do admit at the end of the month I give alot if I am almost to make a bonus and just need a few more couples. The bottom line is, it is a dirty business and just getting worse it seems.


----------



## pammex

Jane Doe..you wrote this..There are other aspects involved as well that make it more complicated being a foreigner. 

Are you a foreigner?  If so, then for you I guess the answer is pretty simple, move out, move on, and go back where you came from.  

Kind of a broad generalization to say "most" of the opc's do drugs all the time and to call them crackheads and such....hope they are not reading what you have written about them on here....

A fair arrangement is good for all involved obviously, so how much do you think a person's time is worth on "vacation"?  

Yes, it is I guess a dirty business but it is no one's fault on TUG or the tourists that you choose to work in this business.  

Do you suggest the tourists spend their hard earned vacation making you money?  Have you seen what is happening to the economy in the US?  Do you realize how much this will impact tourism all over the world?  Do you know how many people are now without jobs in the US?  Do you realize, they may not be coming at all to Mexico....maybe for some time to come, you ned to either work your job or move on as I fear times are only going to get tougher....the trickle down effect happens in Mexico from US, so maybe this year okay and maybe beginning of next year as vacations are already planned but what about after that???

You obviously are not happy in your job, so you should move on...this type of job is suited for certain people and not for others...I think maybe you are looking for sympathy from the tourists on here but yet...I ponder why you would put it on an already troubled thread such as Belair, where so many are unclear at this point what is or has happened to their retirement savings, college funds, saved money, etc. etc.  

Sorry but this thread is in regards to Belair.  Do you work for Belair?  My sympathies go to those dealing with their finances in Belair at this point....

Maybe you should go to Profeco and tell them of the situation with the opc's and your story, and maybe you can change the industry!!!

I wish you better luck and happiness....


----------



## jrsdwilson

*Presentation renumeration*

Jane D.
I want to make the point, that when I agree to a presentation I am doing this to help a very longtime friend who works very hard as a beach peddler.
My friend has many contacts in the business, and he seeks out the ones that can and do offer the largest return for my time which results in the largest return for my amigo.
We are both very happy with this arrangement.
It is so corrupt that many times we have to adhere to a "script" prepared by the entry level representative of the complex we are touring.
It is crooked from the moment contact is made, everyone is paid off, even the desk clerk at the "scripted time share that I am supposed own".
Sooooooo, do I feel any guilt about assisting a friend make ends meet by attending one of these corrupt presentations ? " NOT ONE BIT" 
And in April of 2009 I will again be in position to assist my friend, I hope that the presentation rates are still in the $400.00 to $500.00usd range.
Cheers


----------



## poocooms

December, 2008

Do you have any updated information on Belaire?  We are suppose to give them the second half of our payment on December 18.  Supposely, they are opening Mirmar in Mismoyala this month and people will be able to trade starting January.

Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated


----------



## DeniseM

poocooms said:


> December, 2008
> 
> Do you have any updated information on Belaire?  We are suppose to give them the second half of our payment on December 18.  Supposely, they are opening Mirmar in Mismoyala this month and people will be able to trade starting January.
> 
> Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated



Welcome to TUG - the most current info. is in this thread.  The last post was Nov. 29th.


----------



## missdaisy10

What can you tell us about "Mirmar in Mismoyala"?  Where and when did this come into play?  Is this an existing property that they have (supposedly) purchased, renamed, and are going to use to take some of the heat off or is there an existing property in Mismoyala already named Mirmar (I have stayed in that area and do not recall such a property) that they have puchased or leased? Could this be the old Casa Iguana property that I understand has been closed for about a year now?  If so, its a pretty basic property that would be many steps down from what we saw at Belaire's model. 

For background, I am an ex-Belaire owner (I rescinded my contract after eight months of lies and unfulfilled promises and representations) who lost a considerable sum of money to this project.  I am curious as to what they are currently up to and try to stay current via this website.  It seems like there is a dearth of recent reports on progress/lack of progress on the building.  My last report was from friends who went by the property in October while in PV and reported that nothing was going on with re. to construction.  Has this changed?


----------



## rockinghams

I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.


----------



## aliikai2

*Hi Rockinghams*

Welcome to TUG,

I have been watching this project since Nov 8,2007 when we toured, and they have poured some concrete, however in the last 2 months there has been almost no progress. 

I have saved the web cam shots every month for a couple of months, and there are normally 2 to 4 workers doing something, but very, very little is getting done. 

With labor costs of less than 67 pesos ( $6.20 usd) per 10 hour day per worker, this project should be making rapid progress, which it isn't.

I would recommend waiting before you make a purchase until there is something tangible and available for your use.

jmho,

Greg



rockinghams said:


> I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.


----------



## pammex

I have to agree with aliikai2.....I was recently at the Mayan Resorts and was there also in Jan of this year and they have a whole structure up in that time, yet Belair is pouring concrete and such since 2007.......proceed with caution...


----------



## brucecz

rockinghams said:


> I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.



Is it correct that after about 2 years of selling that not  the footings are still not fully completed at the Belaire?


When did they start the Miramar project? Was the Miramar project started before or after sales started up at the Belaire? 

Can we assume that seeing no one posted about the Miramar project during the first year or so of postings concerning  the Belaire that the Miramar project was started a fair amount of time after the sales effort started at the Belaire.  

Bruce


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

rockinghams said:


> I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.



And we have yet another first time visitor to TUG who just happens to appear on this thread.

It is utterly amazing to me how one particular thread about one particular resort in one particular resort attracts so much attention from people who have no connection to TUG show up on this thread and make complimentary posts about the progress of the report.

Why, if I didn't know better I might think that someone associated with the resort is salting the thread with posts by purported happy owners or interested buyers.  I could believe it if I didn't know that such tactics were below the Provence of timeshare sales professionals. [/sarcasm]


----------



## rockinghams

*No enemy, just curious*

I am new to posting on any thread so I don't know how to include a portrait of my mother with my moniker. If I want to use sarcasm, I hope I don't have to identify it. The reason I suddenly appeared on this venue, is because I recently was on a cruise with friends who have purchased at Belaire and wanted to check on the progress, or actually, lack of. I googled Belaire and TUG appeared. The deal looks to good to be true, but, just like a hot stock tip, you want to watch it and hope. They are probably over-selling Belaire and using the funds to bankroll the renovation of Miramar. It's is to bad people can't just comment on what they know instead of what they hear, assume or otherwise get all wrong and try to convince others. No, I am not a shill for any group. I just want it to be real and to cash in like everyone else. I might be naive, but I do not think Bellingham Wa. is the center of anything.


----------



## Enrico

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> And we have yet another first time visitor to TUG who just happens to appear on this thread.
> 
> It is utterly amazing to me how one particular thread about one particular resort in one particular resort attracts so much attention from people who have no connection to TUG show up on this thread and make complimentary posts about the progress of the report.
> 
> Why, if I didn't know better I might think that someone associated with the resort is salting the thread with posts by purported happy owners or interested buyers.  I could believe it if I didn't know that such tactics were below the Provence of timeshare sales professionals. [/sarcasm]



I have to agree with you Steve.  I've followed this thread for as a curious onlooker.  I haven't been to PV since 1985, but have been a to Mexico a dozen times since.  Let's face it, the only way something gets built in Mexico is with a great number of laborers.  On my trip to Cancun in October I witnessed the construction taking place at Royal Haciendas Phase 4....like a swarm of bees on those buildings; 100+ workders.  In downtown Cancun, workers were laying a new drainage line in the divided road area near FA Coral Beach....BY HAND!


----------



## Karen G

rockinghams said:


> I am new to posting on any thread so I don't know how to include a portrait of my mother with my moniker. . .  I might be naive, but I do not think Bellingham Wa. is the center of anything.


rockingham, if you have read all the posts on this very long thread, you might observe that posters are warned about attacking one another and about being courteous to each other.  I am relatively certain that the picture on Steve Nelson's post is not is mother--it's himself.  (Just kidding because I've seen him in person.)

Since you included the "northeast" as your location, your curious comment about Bellingham, WA, intrigues me.  My daughter lives there and I've been there many times. It's not exactly one of Washington state's better known towns, except to people who actually live in the northwest.


----------



## rockinghams

*Bellingham*

Karen,  I believe I mistakenly referred to Bellingham instead of Bellevue. Centuries ago, I lived in Everett. Wa. and did a lot of work in Bellingham. I now live in the northeast( Springfield-Hartford) area. Any place in Mex. looks good. This is a very informative thread. It is freezing rain as I write this.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

rockinghams said:


> Karen,  I believe I mistakenly referred to Bellingham instead of Bellevue. Centuries ago, I lived in Everett. Wa. and did a lot of work in Bellingham. I now live in the northeast( Springfield-Hartford) area. Any place in Mex. looks good. This is a very informative thread. It is freezing rain as I write this.


This thread stands unique among threads on TUG for the frequency with which people who have no previous involvement with TUG suddenly register and begin posting about this resort, with comments about Belaire ranging from faint praise to effusive praise. 

In our experience here (on this and other threads), a very high proportion of those posts are shill posts.  The Belaire thread not only has an extraordinarily high number of such posts (of which yours is simply the most recent), but  some of those posts have clearly been exposed as fraudulent shill posts (such as people claiming to be posting from various locales when the IP address from which the post showed the person making the post was in Puerto Vallarta at the time).

Maybe you are what you say you are.  Hard to say.  Everybody who is a shill poster makes similar statements and claims.

It makes no difference to me; I post this for the sake of people who do come into this thread looking for information on Belaire (in much the same manner as you claim you arrived) to be suspicious of posters who show up in this thread with no history of involvement at the site, making posts that are generally complimentary about a project that has a shady history and an established practice of either shill posting themselves or engaging others to shill post.

You do fit the pattern, so I issue the caution. Readers are free to make their own assessments.

+++++

I might also add that making _ad hominem_ attacks on others is not an effective tactic to remove suspicions that you might be a shill.


----------



## Karen G

Thanks for including the definition of _ad hominem_, Steve.  I had to look it up and now I see you've put in the link.  That a good term and certainly applies to the post about your post.

This concludes this brief intermission in this "mother of all threads." And now back to the main subject--Belaire Golf Resort & Spa.


----------



## rockinghams

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> This thread stands unique among threads on TUG for the frequency with which people who have no previous involvement with TUG suddenly register and begin posting about this resort, with comments about Belaire ranging from faint praise to effusive praise.
> 
> In our experience here (on this and other threads), a very high proportion of those posts are shill posts.  The Belaire thread not only has an extraordinarily high number of such posts (of which yours is simply the most recent), but  some of those posts have clearly been exposed as fraudulent shill posts (such as people claiming to be posting from various locales when the IP address from which the post showed the person making the post was in Puerto Vallarta at the time).
> 
> Maybe you are what you say you are.  Hard to say.  Everybody who is a shill poster makes similar statements and claims.
> 
> It makes no difference to me; I post this for the sake of people who do come into this thread looking for information on Belaire (in much the same manner as you claim you arrived) to be suspicious of posters who show up in this thread with no history of involvement at the site, making posts that are generally complimentary about a project that has a shady history and an established practice of either shill posting themselves or engaging others to shill post.
> 
> You do fit the pattern, so I issue the caution. Readers are free to make their own assessments.
> 
> +++++
> 
> I might also add that making _ad hominem_ attacks on others is not an effective tactic to remove suspicions that you might be a shill.


TOUCHE'   It is not my intent to do anything but learn. I apologize for the dig. Is it possible that a new observer and responder to this thread can say anything other than negative comments about a property? I have not lost money, been burnt, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people. I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. If a commendable comment makes me a shill, I wonder when I'll get my first check. Maybe some of the negative posts are from.........Again, I would like to learn.


----------



## brucecz

rockinghams said:


> TOUCHE'   It is not my intent to do anything but learn. I apologize for the dig. Is it possible that a new observer and responder to this thread can say anything other than negative comments about a property? I have not lost money, been burnt, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people. I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. If a commendable comment makes me a shill, I wonder when I'll get my first check. Maybe some of the negative posts are from.........Again, I would like to learn.



I tend to agree with what you said in your post #428 on this string and quoting you "I googled Belaire and TUG appeared. The deal looks to good to be true, but, just like a hot stock tip, you want to watch it and hope. They are probably over-selling Belaire and using the funds to bankroll the renovation of Miramar. Unquote.

 IMHO what  they are doing in my direct experiance and after reading their the contract we signed and then recinded after  having a chance to carefully read it the is basis for a lot of the "Thruthfull postings" that the Belaire supporters want to label as negative.  

To many times the same things the Belaires sales crew said to many about having to pay no taxes or doubling your money after 2 years of ownership have been proven not to be true beyond any reason doubt.

After 2 years of ownership people still can not use the Belaire to stay in.

If you do not have as you posted in your words "or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people" then  on the other hand how can you then say  without any direct first hand knowlegde I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. "  

Those two comments semingly controdict each other.  What am I missing?

Bruce


----------



## rockinghams

Bruce,  What I meant by knowing certain things to be untrue, is when people would say that the web-cam was not live, or that there was not any progress at all. After much soul-searching, I am of the belief that there is something afoul. Curiosity will keep me watching and still pollyannaishly hoping. If it walks like a duck.........


----------



## pammex

I just have to add many posters on here have posted first hand knowledge and true posts.....and many have no involvement at all other than to help...yes, there is something afoul, there is not doubt about that.


----------



## jrsdwilson

*The Display Unit At Belaire*

On my "Condo Grind of the Bel-AIR" in late April 2008 for which I and my spouse were paid $500.00usd plus a meal plus taxi to and from our unit.While studying the layout of the place, it was very obvious to me that to even get this project to the half-built stage the fancy display unit would have to be demolished to complete the unit.The total area of land in this project is only 2 1/2 hectares a little more than 5 acres . So my little brain tells me that if they have not demolished the display unit / cafe then they are not very close to being half built.
Just as a side bar, at the river Quale on the old "Molina de Aqua" property in old town adjacent to the new waterfront foot bridge of the Malecon, this development started after Bel-Air is by appearance twice the size was having the top floors almost done when I was there.
Does anyone know if in fact this project is open.Just for more information I spent about an hour with the site manager of this project, when doing the 65 foot footings they had on site 9 cranes / drill rigs and 250 iron workers doing the rebar. Once out of the ground the average workforce per day was around 300 tradesmen.
Just something to compare!!!
Cheers,
From very snowy Courtenay this night.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Warning for potential Employees*

While it probably seems odd to issue a warning to potential Belaire employees, I am hopeful to save these folks some real heartbreak. One of the most recent Belaire employes joined the staff coming from Branson, Mo. home of numerous time shares. He was told as a Belaire employee that his children were "guaranteed" enrollment at the presigious American School of PV just down the street from the Belaire. His children were coming from very good private schools in the States so this was extremely important to him and his wife.
Unfortunately this was just another "story" told by the Belaire owners/management. Not only was there no spaces available at the school, NONE of the schools in PV that had instruction in English would accept their children!  No one wants ANYTHING to do with Belaire employees. 
I hope this will be a warning to others. And for those of us who are only too well aware of the Belaire style of promising what can NOT be delivered, this adds to an already lengthy list of why no one should believe what these Belaire folks have to say.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Any updates?*



Snappy Sam said:


> While it probably seems odd to issue a warning to potential Belaire employees, I am hopeful to save these folks some real heartbreak. One of the most recent Belaire employes joined the staff coming from Branson, Mo. home of numerous time shares.



Has anyone met this new person? Any of you Belaire owners know why this happened?  
Anyone have a new opening date?


----------



## brucecz

Snappy Sam said:


> Has anyone met this new person? Any of you Belaire owners know why this happened?
> Anyone have a new opening date?



Happy Holidays to one and all and hopefully the the people who bought into the Belaire will be finally able to use it by next Christmas and New Years.

Bruce


----------



## rockinghams

brucecz said:


> Happy Holidays to one and all and hopefully the the people who bought into the Belaire will be finally able to use it by next Christmas and New Years.
> 
> Bruce



Thank you. Same to you and yours. I still have not bought in, but in response to your remark about next Christmas and New Years, I questioned Antonio personally via e-mail about the completion date about 3 weeks ago and he said 18 months would be a safe bet. But, supposedly, if I purchased now, I could stay at the Miramar until Belaire is completed. I remain wary and cautious but am enthused by the activity on the web-cam. Cold in Massachussetts with the possibility of 10-12 in. snow today and tonight.


----------



## TROOPER08

*Belaire*

Just wondering if anyone has reached the two year date so you can sell the timeshare back to Antonio and Co?   I'd be interested to find out what happens at the end of the "must hold" time and how much if anything they will buy it back for.


----------



## brucecz

rockinghams said:


> Thank you. Same to you and yours. I still have not bought in, but in response to your remark about next Christmas and New Years, I questioned Antonio personally via e-mail about the completion date about 3 weeks ago and he said 18 months would be a safe bet. But, supposedly, if I purchased now, I could stay at the Miramar until Belaire is completed. I remain wary and cautious but am enthused by the activity on the web-cam. Cold in Massachussetts with the possibility of 10-12 in. snow today and tonight.



We got about 12 inches of snow last night and this morning.  But I think our snow is not as deep as the stuff the Belaire has been spending for the  about last 2 years.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

TROOPER08 said:


> Just wondering if anyone has reached the two year date so you can sell the timeshare back to Antonio and Co?   I'd be interested to find out what happens at the end of the "must hold" time and how much if anything they will buy it back for.



As per many of posts on these 3 strings, many have posted that their contracts contain weasel clauses that get the Belaire legally off the hook in NOT having to reimburse the buyers who  bought the sizzle but do not have the steak as promised even after many broken completion deadlines.  

The  promise made to those who bought 2 years ago expecting to double their money in these past 2 years  has been to be another grandiose Belaire promise that has proven to be without one ounce  of merit.

Hopefully the Belaire is not grossly under capitalized as it gives definite signs of being and not a Ponizi ploy that it in some aspects has the earmarks of being.

A old Johnny Mathis  hit love song title hopefully may NOT point out the completion date of the Belaire. Does anyone remember the name of that song?

Bruce


----------



## Dave M

Bruce -

When is the 12th?


----------



## brucecz

Dave M said:


> Bruce -
> 
> When is the 12th?



Dave,  you are correct.

"The 12th of never" is what I was thinking.  That was either the name of the 
song or a line in the song that I think goes like this "the 12th of never and that's a long, long time."

If I recall one of the songs line correctly it was when his love would end.

Maybe that is when if ever this  Belaire group gets this done so the buyers can stay at the Belaire.

I remember that the Belaires background tour's  "light opera" music was very  pretty and pleasant much like that Johnny  Mathis song.

Bruce


----------



## timeshare junkie

*Belaire update & personal opinions.*

We just returned from 3 weeks in Nuevo Vallarta where we were fortunate to be invited to an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire during the week of Dec.13. Our first impression of the construction site-- non-professional,disorganized,old Mexico construction methods [compared to other construction sites in PV]. We enjoyed a great breakfast and toured the luxurious display suite.Our host reminded us this was not a timeshare, it was fractional ownership and this was an investment in Mexico's solid economy. Our questions were met with few answers. They offered to appraise 2 of our timeshares and if we were interested they would purchase them. The purchase price was 90%of original purchase price [ 2000 % of resale purchase price ] The first offer--4 annual weeks,one annual M/F [ A/I fee],guaranteed 200% return with 2 year buyback plan. Just then a manager announced the steel for the first tower would arrive Dec .20 2008, and they would make the Dec. 2009 completion date for tower 1. All investors check the webcam,the steel should be onsite now.  Then another manager offered us a 2 week annual package [1/24 fractional ??]he just received on an upgrade. This offer was 10% of the first offer and we could keep our timeshares. All of the investment councilors we spoke with previously worked in the timeshare industry and now found a new way to benefit their clients.After another"NO" we were on our way to the gifting area and were met by the Developers representative. After a few questions he presented the best offer of the morning--receive 1 free week in PV Dec. 2009 , all of todays offers frozen for 1 year at todays prices. Buy at preconstruction pricing when tower 1 is complete. Does this sound too good to be true? What do we have to loose? After a long discussion [maybe 60 seconds] the answer was " NO". When a deal sounds too good to be true,it usually is. Good luck to all who have purchased, and those who will purchase in the future. I hope you all benefit from your investments. 2 years from now we may look back and wish we had taken this investment offer.
We entered into this Investment Seminar [timeshare presentation] with  open minds and left with closed wallets. 
Our investment-0 Pesos & 3 hours time.
Our return- 4500 Pesos and our smiling faces.

Good Luck to all   Bill & Linda

Timesharing is a game, learn the rules, and play to win.


----------



## Karen G

timeshare junkie said:


> an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire


That's a new approach!

Thanks, Bill & Linda, for that report.  I'm so glad you weren't swayed to part with your money.  You did well.


----------



## rockinghams

timeshare junkie said:


> We just returned from 3 weeks in Nuevo Vallarta where we were fortunate to be invited to an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire during the week of Dec.13. Our first impression of the construction site-- non-professional,disorganized,old Mexico construction methods [compared to other construction sites in PV]. We enjoyed a great breakfast and toured the luxurious display suite.Our host reminded us this was not a timeshare, it was fractional ownership and this was an investment in Mexico's solid economy. Our questions were met with few answers. They offered to appraise 2 of our timeshares and if we were interested they would purchase them. The purchase price was 90%of original purchase price [ 2000 % of resale purchase price ] The first offer--4 annual weeks,one annual M/F [ A/I fee],guaranteed 200% return with 2 year buyback plan. Just then a manager announced the steel for the first tower would arrive Dec .20 2008, and they would make the Dec. 2009 completion date for tower 1. All investors check the webcam,the steel should be onsite now.  Then another manager offered us a 2 week annual package [1/24 fractional ??]he just received on an upgrade. This offer was 10% of the first offer and we could keep our timeshares. All of the investment councilors we spoke with previously worked in the timeshare industry and now found a new way to benefit their clients.After another"NO" we were on our way to the gifting area and were met by the Developers representative. After a few questions he presented the best offer of the morning--receive 1 free week in PV Dec. 2009 , all of todays offers frozen for 1 year at todays prices. Buy at preconstruction pricing when tower 1 is complete. Does this sound too good to be true? What do we have to loose? After a long discussion [maybe 60 seconds] the answer was " NO". When a deal sounds too good to be true,it usually is. Good luck to all who have purchased, and those who will purchase in the future. I hope you all benefit from your investments. 2 years from now we may look back and wish we had taken this investment offer.
> We entered into this Investment Seminar [timeshare presentation] with  open minds and left with closed wallets.
> Our investment-0 Pesos & 3 hours time.
> Our return- 4500 Pesos and our smiling faces.
> 
> Good Luck to all   Bill & Linda
> 
> Timesharing is a game, learn the rules, and play to win




_rockingham, when I fixed the quote of Bill & Linda's post, all that was left was the dancing banana.  Is that all you intended to post?_ Karen G, moderator


----------



## Archie583

Karen,
As I said in an earlier post I will be leaving for PV on Friday, January 2, 2009.
We will be in the Mayan Palace , Puerto Vallarta and or the Marina area until April 24. with the exception of two weeks in Nuevo.  Since it is a short walk from the Mayan to Belaire I will visit periodically and post a report.
It will sure be nice to get out of this cold weather in Michigan


----------



## Karen G

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> I will be leaving for PV on Friday, January 2, 2009.


Have a great trip and enjoy the sunshine and warmer temperatures. We'll be looking forward to your report!


----------



## brucecz

Karen G said:


> That's a new approach!
> 
> Thanks, Bill & Linda, for that report.  I'm so glad you weren't swayed to part with your money.  You did well.




Karen, they used that same approach back in 2007 when we tourned.

Others in the 3 strings have also mentioned that same tactic.  
A few of the newer posters also posted similar and said it was a "great Deal".

One if I remember correctly who said it was a great "deal"claimed to be in construction I think in Californa but who's IP address was  in Puerto Vallarta.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

jhpiche@comcast.net said:


> Karen,
> As I said in an earlier post I will be leaving for PV on Friday, January 2, 2009.
> We will be in the Mayan Palace , Puerto Vallarta and or the Marina area until April 24. with the exception of two weeks in Nuevo.  Since it is a short walk from the Mayan to Belaire I will visit periodically and post a report.
> It will sure be nice to get out of this cold weather in Michigan



We are and will be at the Lindo Mar in PV untill Jan 10. We will be moving to a differant unit on Jan 3.  If there are any other Tuggers in the area maybe we could get together for a bite to eat or?

Bruce


----------



## taffy19

What a pity Bruce as we arrive that day in Nuevo Vallarta when you leave.  We are two weeks here and two weeks in Puerto Vallarta.  

*Pammex*, are we still meeting each other?  I am meeting at least two other TUGgers while we are here and a few friends, typical snowbirds, who come here every year.  It has become a tradition to meet each other every year!


----------



## brucecz

iconnections said:


> What a pity Bruce as we arrive that day in Nuevo Vallarta when you leave.  We are two weeks here and two weeks in Puerto Vallarta.
> 
> *Pammex*, are we still meeting each other?  I am meeting at least two other TUGgers while we are here and a few friends, typical snowbirds, who come here every year.  It has become a tradition to meet each other every year!



It would have been nice to meet some of you. 

A Saturday or Sunday Brunch at the Lindo Mars Ocean front restrurant would have been good  place tp meet as it is a decent brunch for only 118 Pesos or less than $10 US. 

Maybe someone wiil post a bit ahead of time next year and we can get a group going in PV like several years ago.

Bruce


----------



## missdaisy10

*Belaire in Cabo San Lucas?*

For awhile, we thought so.  

We spent New Years week (week 52 for us timesharer users) in Cabo San Lucas.  While there my wife was approached to attend a private residence club presentation at a pre-construction property called The Enchantment Residence Club.  She was promised “a different kind of property”.  To her, the “come on” sounded eerily like the one we were given to attend the Belaire presentation 18 months ago in Puerto Vallarta.    

For the record, we lost about $13,000 on Belaire before we rescinded our contract.  Also, I have stated somewhere in one of these threads as predicting Antonio Capela will eventually show up again in another Mexico resort community with a similar scam property.  My wife agreed for us to attend the presentation since she really hoped we would find Antonio and be able to confront him.  We could hardly wait to see him peeking his head around the corner and recognizing us.  

As it turned out, The Enchantment was apparently NOT another Belaire scam--but there was a Belaire tie that I think you will find interesting.

The Enchantment property as proposed is a group of single family two and three bedroom homes with a central clubhouse and all the bells and whistles that Belaire offered.   Their website is: http://www.loscabosguide.com/theenchantment/.  If you bother to read it, you will see that it has many similarities to Belaire--but also what appears to be some important differences like deeds, a developer with an existing track record, etc. 

Now for the Belaire tie and information.  We declined their offer, explaining that we had been burned at Beliare and were not comfortable buying into another pre-construction property.  Our salesman apparently put the word out immediately because, as we were leaving, a young gentleman came up and introduced himself as Jaime Gomez.  His first statement was that he thought he might have met us at Belaire when he was there as the Edom(sp?) Construction Company representative and that he was now fulfilling the same role for Edom at The Enchantment.  I think he was there (he knew all the Belaire player’s names well)  though I am not certain of his role.

For you old Belaire hands, you may remember that Edom was the second construction company at Belaire.  They even had Belaire on their website for awhile and were touted by the Belaire sales staff as a guarantee that the project would eventually be built.  While I do not put full stock in Mr. Gomez’s representations, here is what he had to say about Belaire:
•	He thinks Belaire will eventually be built—maybe five years down the road.
•	Edom pulled out of the project because they could not work with Antonio.  Twice he said, “Antonio is a control freak.”  He said that was his biggest problem.
•	When they pulled out, Belaire owed Edom a lot of money.  Antonio refused to pay and so they sued to tie up Belaire’s money.  The lawsuit was recently settled for a couple of million dollars.  During this time, construction progress at Belaire was brought to a halt.
•	Israel Curi (who we had primary contact with for the first 6-8 months of our odyssey) is in jail for embezzlement from Belaire.

A couple of amusing asides to the presentation:
1.  When we visited the model (which was predictably beautiful), I watched my wife.  The first thing she did was walk into the kitchen and try to turn on the water.  No water.  You may remember that some on this thread in the past made a big deal out of the lack of water in the faucets at the Belaire models.
2.  Towards the end of the presentation the sales person left us alone for a minute before giving us pricing.  My wife asked me, "So what do you think?"  I said, "Well, its eerily like Belaire except for the yacht club".  Sure enough, when he came back to the table, he pulled out the brochure on The Enchantment yacht club program.  It was hard to restrain the laughter.    

Thought you all would appreciate how Belaire keeps rearing its ugly head up wherever we go in Mexican timeshare circles.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Karen G

missdaisy10 said:


> We spent New Years week (week 52 for us timesharer users) in Cabo San Lucas.  While there my wife was approached to attend a private residence club presentation at a pre-construction property called The Enchantment Residence Club.


Was Enchantment located on the hillside above the Costco store?  On our last day in Cabo in August a timeshare guy approached us about touring a new property called Enchantment and said it was near Costco. I was thinking maybe he was referring to Encantada, which is on the water side of the main highway.

I did see some kind of development in that area as we were leaving and going along the highway.


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## 3-wack

*Belaire All-Inclusive????*

My wife and I bought at Belaire 2 years ago (January '07). Needless to say we're unhappy and are becoming more so after reading some of the comments on this thread. We're from Toronto but are in PV now. Earlier this week we checked in on Belaire and had a gander at the model suites which are very impressive. The "present" manager informed us that completion is expected in December '09. We left the premises feeling marginally sanguine and hoping that perhaps things would work out. A few days later my wife was checking the website of the "luxury experience" and discovered that "all-inclusive was mentioned in the member description for Belaire. We e-mailed Karla at Belaire and she informed us that it is ONLY $100 per person per day. The idea of an all-inclusive was never mentioned at our presentation or any time since. If this is true we never would have bought in the first place. I might point out that my neither my wife or I are neophytes to this timeshare game and if all-inclusive had been mentioned we would have ran like hell.
Has anyone else been told it's all-inclusive or have any other knowledge to share?


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## rockinghams

From what we were told, the ALL-INCLUSIVE provision was that each owner would for one week of their stay, spend at least $60 USD per day at the restrauant. If you have guests, it would be wise to have them at a different time other than that particular week. I would certainly assume, if that information is not in your contract, you will not be forced to abide. Please do not sign anything that you do not understand. Has anyone any info on Miramar? It is supposed to be available at the end of Feb. for Belaire owners use.


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## jeanbean

*Miramar*

We have been promised a reservation for the middle of Feb at the Miramar, since Oct of 2008 and have not been able to obtain a written confirmation.
When our e-mails are responded to, which is not often, we get reasons for the resort not opening as yet. According to the newsletter, it was scheduled to open in Dec. Feb is not far off, and we're at a loss and can see no solution. When they have your money up front, you have no leverage. No one to blame but ourselves, for being taken.

jeanbean
























rockinghams said:


> From what we were told, the ALL-INCLUSIVE provision was that each owner would for one week of their stay, spend at least $60 USD per day at the restrauant. If you have guests, it would be wise to have them at a different time other than that particular week. I would certainly assume, if that information is not in your contract, you will not be forced to abide. Please do not sign anything that you do not understand. Has anyone any info on Miramar? It is supposed to be available at the end of Feb. for Belaire owners use.


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## missdaisy10

*Response to Karen G's Question Above*

Yes, Enchantment is north of the four lane behind Costco.  They have apparently bought some property up there that includes a bunch of apartments/townhomes which I think are rented.  Though the project does not have beach frontage or beach access, they are promising a "beach club".  Sounds like Belaire in that regard too.  So many similiarities...


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## judy23

*belaire Resort*

We signed a contract 2 years ago this Jan as well but was specific in our contract about the all inclusive. We insisted they write it in as optional and they did. We do not have to go all inclusive. 
 We also met with Jaimie Gomez at the Belaire and as far as we are concerned her is as sleazy as they come. I would not believe anything he says. He represented himself as the ODOM representative as well.We are on our way (driving) as we speak and will be in PV for 6 weeks so we will be there keeping tabs and will go there frequently.


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## jeanbean

*Driving to PV*

Due to past airline problems, we have also considered driving to PV - if we ever receive the reservation - would like to hear about your experience in doing so. Sounds practical, if you're staying for any length of time. Also, Belaire and Miramar news would be great. Our all-inclusive clause is $55/adult/day for the 1st week.


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## 3-wack

*Belaire*

Thanks to Rockinghams and Judy 23 for their responses re "all inclusive" at Belaire. It was prudent to have an exclusionary clause inserted. Why didn't we think of that? I guess "caveat emptor" has triple significance in Mexico.
As there's no mention of an all inclusive in our contract, one would think we're on firm legal ground but then again it is Mexico. My wife has purchased 2 properties in PV previously and, notwithstanding the usual stretching of the truth  that we all encounter with the timeshare rogues, has not felt "major" ripped off. The Belaire thing has taken on a different tone. With the pattern of misrepresentation, blatant falsehoods and conflicted reasons for construction delays, it's starting to look a lot like a scam. Another interesting promise we were made was that Belaire would take 4 of our weeks a year, market them and then send us a big fat check in March. Not only has there been no cheque but there isn't even a place to market. Upon reflection, this whole venture had the "too good to be true" label written all over it. I hope I'm merely having a paranoic episode regarding this whole mess but as the facts unfold it's starting to look ugly. 
In a  strange coincidence, while attending an update at Playa del Sol in Nuevo we spotted the timeshare guy (George Hanson) who suckered us at Belaire working at the next table.  Apparently he left after a month but we were able to get little information out of him. Funny---he was our best friend for about  5 hours when we bought at Belaire. When we confronted him he seemed to lose his affable nature and had absolutely no time for us. Just another dirt bag. His name's George Hanson so if any of you are visiting Playa del Sol for a presentation and you end up with this guy feel free to rub Belaire in his face and do anything else to his face for that matter. At least he didn't end up in jail like that other upstanding Belaire employee Israel.


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## missdaisy10

*What's the Story on Miramar?*

I asked this before but never received a clear answer.  When did Belaire supposedly buy this property for its members to use?  How do you know this legit?  In light of all their other lies, how do you know that this is not one more of their attempts to convince members and prospective purchasers that they really are a legitimate operation?  I seem to recall that Miramar is in Mismaloya.  Is this correct?  Is it a new property or a renovation of an existing property?  If a reno, is this old Casa Iguana property at the river on the off side of the highway away from the beach?  I don't have access to Belaire's communications to members any longer but would appreciate knowing what they are supposedly up to.


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## taffy19

3-wack said:


> In a strange coincidence, while attending an update at Playa del Sol in Nuevo we spotted the timeshare guy (George Hanson) who suckered us at Belaire working at the next table. Apparently he left after a month but we were able to get little information out of him. Funny---he was our best friend for about 5 hours when we bought at Belaire. When we confronted him he seemed to lose his affable nature and had absolutely no time for us. Just another dirt bag. His name's George Hanson so if any of you are visiting Playa del Sol for a presentation and *you end up with this guy feel free to rub Belaire in his face and do anything else to his face for that matter*. At least he didn't end up in jail like that other upstanding Belaire employee Israel.


How absolutely awful what you are going through.  We are in PV/NV right now and it was my plan to take a tour at this resort just to see what they had to offer and take some pictures too of the progress. However, since some of the other members here have volunteered to post some updated pictures of the progress,we don't need to bother now and the reason for this is that I received an email a few months ago from a lady who went on a presentation here but refused to buy but the BelAire resort had charged her credit card to the limit anyway. She tried to dispute it with her bank but didn't get it resolved so she warned me and wanted to know if I had a good experience with them or not.  We have never been there yet so have no good or bad experience. Did this lady contact anyone of you too?

All I can say is be careful if you want to tour this resort for a supposedly "free gift" because the "free gift" may not be so free and will cause you a lot of headaches afterwards.


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## pammex

I'll be in touch soon.....lots going on, but have lots of info for all as well...sorry I missed meeting many of you....


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## jeanbean

*Miramar*

Miramar is in Mismaloya and is a renovated resort. We have received pictures that appear comparable to the Belaire, not quite as well decorated, but, better than most. It was supposed to be ready for occupancy in Dec, but were told they were having maintenance problems. The photos and the reservation promise were rec'd in Oct 08, but, nothing in writing. If it  is not in writing, we have nothing. At the time of purchase, we were told they would put us in another resort until Belaire was ready. Now, they will not respond to e-mails, even with false promises. Our Belaire contract is in writing, and at this point and time is worth nothing either. Seems to be "all lies". We have been going to PV, buying at the different resorts for many years and have never encountered anything such as this.


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## SteveH

*Don´t say NO too soon*

We were offered a $400 tour on Jan 9th and bit.  When we arrived we saw the previously reported 5 guys in the hole dragging around shovels, etc.  When we said that we wouldn´t buy preconstruction, they booted us right away without gifting us!  This has never ahppened to us before but the chisel faced american who came over to give us the good news, said they weren´t an ATM.  I wasn´t feeling argumentative so wew just left.
BEWARE of this tour.
STeve


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## mplswjr

*Belaire and Profeco*

To anyone who signs up for a "presentation" at Belaire, I suggest you make a photocopy of your presentation certificate.  If they "boot" you off the premises, take your copy to Profeco in PV (recently moved) and tell your story.  I believe they will force Belaire to make good on their offer.  The "preconstruction" label is not valid as a viable exception to completing their part of the agreement.

My wife and I are in PV now and took a walk from the marina to Belaire and saw a hole with a few footings poured, and about 10 or 12 small steel girders set on them.  We saw four guys walking around the hole and two guys in the guard shack near the construction gate.  Little discernible activity.

We did the Belaire presentation three years ago, and that's the sum total of their progress.  We have watched on the other hand the one-year completion of the RIU Palace near Bucerias, a massive facility.

I fear that many people have been "taken" by Belaire......we weren"t.

Bill


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## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire Response to some of my complaints*

The construction has been going on for 3+ years. My contract states something to the effect "resonable timeline"

Dear Mr. Swartz,

I have read through your letter of complaint to PROFECO outlining your issues.  While I understand that you and some other members feel Belaire has not lived up to the contract that is not the case.  To cover just some of your key points outlined.

1) The contract does not indicate a completion date for the resort.  It states a first year of use for when you can begin use of you membership benefits.  All the member benefits were available to you and other members as outlined.
2) We have 3,624 properties available for exchanges, some from RCI, II, Dial-an-Exchange and several other independent companies where all you pay is the exchange fee and don't need your own membership to be paid each year.
3) Things like rental of weeks and stays at Belaire obviously can only be accommodated once the resort is built and it indicates this throughout the contract.
4) The Belaire Resort has always been all-inclusive for the registered week(s) which gives you food and beverages.  You do not have any maintenance fees or other fees while staying at Belaire.
5) The company does have Tennis, Golf and Yacht clubs for members with those indicated in their contracts.  We have members using those services every day.

PROFECO is indeed the proper place for you to take your issues and file any complaint you have.  We will respect whatever decision they make regarding your rights and the contract.


Sincerely,


John Anthony
Customer Care & Member Services
PV Belaire Golf Resort & Spa
The Luxury Experience Private Resort Collection
Phone:   866-438 1448
E-mail:   customer.care@belairevacationclub.com


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## flexible

pammex said:


> I'll be in touch soon.....lots going on, but have lots of info for all as well...sorry I missed meeting many of you....



Hi Pammex,

We are at Velas Vallarta 3 Jan - 14 Feb 2009. Were you here? We went the the BelAir presentation in November. We could see the BelAir's 'progress' from high up at Velas. It is amazing to see a few columns move around. Some Velas employees commented that BelAir is 'pretending' to build.

We didn't buy at the BelAir but my husband still talks about who much he'd like to 'invest' in the opportunity they presented. He has more confidence in the project that I do.

Hope to meet you next time we are in the same town. I use http://TripIt.com in case you also use it. It make it easy to track when were are in the same town as others.

Best regards,
Flexible


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Dave M said:


> I find it amusing that the video-cam linked here over two months ago (April 17) apparently no longer exists and the most recent photos on the "real time" construction site are dated back in early April.
> 
> Whether it's a scam or not, I can't judge. But the purported ongoing construction, touted on this BBS for many months, doesn't seem to exist.



According to those real time video cams, they're *still* placing concrete for the foundations!!!   

Is Belaire anywhere near the Marina?  We'll be in PV next month, and I might saunter over if it's not too far from us.


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## flexible

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> According to those real time video cams, they're *still* placing concrete for the foundations!!!
> 
> Is Belaire anywhere near the Marina?  We'll be in PV next month, and I might saunter over if it's not too far from us.



You will probably find it interesting to see 'the construction'.

Where will you be in PV. If you call the 'Marina' the area across from the Marriott then there is Marriott, Porto Fina, Velas Vallarta, Bay View Grand and BelAir. The Casa Velas are across from the golf course and also a block away. Mayan Palace in the Marina is on the other side of the Marriott between Melia and Westin. This Marina is the one with tons of shops & restaurants.

Some people refer to the area across from WalMart where the huge cruise ships dock as 'the marina.' We can see this area from the lighthouse or Westin but it is a long, long walk. On the other side of this Marina is Crown Paradise, Vallarta Torre, Krystal etc.


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## pammex

brucecz said:


> We are and will be at the Lindo Mar in PV untill Jan 10. We will be moving to a differant unit on Jan 3.  If there are any other Tuggers in the area maybe we could get together for a bite to eat or?
> 
> Bruce



Shoot....I really wanted to hook up with you.....things have been a bit crazy....we were in PV....met many friends American and Mexican, got call from son...going to be grandparents, got some info on Belair, and on way home in car found out my dad had been in terrible car accident in Mexico ( he is okay, but dealing with legalities in Mexico LOL).  Hopefully we can meet next time.....sorry....



iconnections said:


> What a pity Bruce as we arrive that day in Nuevo Vallarta when you leave.  We are two weeks here and two weeks in Puerto Vallarta.
> 
> *Pammex*, are we still meeting each other?  I am meeting at least two other TUGgers while we are here and a few friends, typical snowbirds, who come here every year.  It has become a tradition to meet each other every year!



Sorry iconnections had a crazy vacation and return and well just sort of lost track of dates, meeting people and months etc.....hopefully next time.....



flexible said:


> Hi Pammex,
> 
> We are at Velas Vallarta 3 Jan - 14 Feb 2009. Were you here? We went the the BelAir presentation in November. We could see the BelAir's 'progress' from high up at Velas. We didn't buy at the BelAir but it is amazing to see a few columns move around. Some Velas employees commented that BelAir is 'pretending' to build.
> 
> Hope to meet you next time we are in the same town. I use http://TripIt.com in case you also use it. It make it easy to track when were are in the same town as others.
> 
> Best regards,
> Flexible



Shoot we were in same place at same time....though we spent half at Velas and half at Casa Velas.....maybe next time....



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> According to those real time video cams, they're *still* placing concrete for the foundations!!!
> 
> Is Belaire anywhere near the Marina?  We'll be in PV next month, and I might saunter over if it's not too far from us.



Belaire is in the marina area, not where cruise ships come in but the marina area near airport.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

flexible said:


> Where will you be in PV. If you call the 'Marina' the area across from the Marriott then there is Marriott, Porto Fina, Velas Vallarta, Bay View Grand and BelAir. The Casa Velas are across from the golf course and also a block away. Mayan Palace in the Marina is on the other side of the Marriott between Melia and Westin. This Marina is the one with tons of shops & restaurants.





pammex said:


> Belaire is in the marina area, not where cruise ships come in but the marina area near airport.



We'll be at the Mayan Palace.  Looks as if I tracked it down on Google Maps.  If they got the location correct, it's at the north end of what I learned to call the Marina area (Marina Vallarta, not the cruise ship terminal), with the property abutting the south boundary of the airport airport and one or two lots landward of the shoreline.


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## pammex

Have had a crazy month, but here is a small bit of info till I get caught up....when we did Belair presentation they told us Ai for something like $60. US per day per person and could be used in all restaurants in Marina, which of course we felt was ludicrous!

We did pass by Belair and I have photos and will get them up as soon as feasible in light of all that is occurring with us at the moment.  There continues to be a very small crew of workers...5-6 with very few hours actually from our sitings.  There is machinery just sitting there on site, no clue the costs to rent such equipment to sit there, day after day.    

They have cleared out the swimming pool LOL ( big hole in ground of water), they have installed 9 big steel support columns, and 6 small ones.  Just a note, they are out of line and crooked.....and the smaller support columns are on outside....weird....

They continue to offer presentations as per the locals....the continue to have the 1-2 guards on site around the clock.  Many other resorts have come to completion in the time of Belair's construction.  Locals continue to say they do not think this will come to fruition.  

We did pass some lovely woman who had purchased some time ago.....they said they were pleased some construction was occurring.....hmm...they also said they were told the steel support beams weighed over 10,000 pounds each, so only 3 could be brought in per day via flatbed from Mexico City.....my husband asked them if Mexico only had one flat bed???  Interestingly after this comment they no longer wished to talk to us....

so in 2 or 3 years......support columns are up......this must definately be a Mexican time frame project, whilst the rest of PV is constructing like crazy.  

I'll follow with pics and such shortly...pressed for time now...

I continue to wish well to those who have purchased but my wishes may not be in line with reality.....


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## flexible

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> We''' be at the Mayan Palace.  Looks as if I tracked it down on Google Maps.  If they got the location correct, it's at the north end of what I learned to call the Marina area (Marina Vallarta, not the cruise ship terminal), with the property abutting the south boundary of the airport airport and one or two lots landward of the shoreline.



You will be in walking distance. Walk North past Velas Vallarta and you will see BelAir to your right but a bit further North. It in NOT Ocean Front.

Bay View Grand is just past Velas Vallarta but by the time you get that close you just cross the street to the BelAir.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

flexible said:


> You will be in walking distance. Walk North past Velas Vallarta and you will see BelAir to your right but a bit further North. It in NOT Ocean Front.



I know there are prohibitions and restrictions on non-Mexicans owning ocean front land. Nevertheless, for a resort that touts itself as being so upscale and exclusive, you would think they could find a way to secure an ocean front location.  So many other resorts have figured out a way to make it happen.

Seems a bit ludicrous to me to be what they espouse to be and not have an ocean front location and to share a fenceline with a major commercial airport.


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## taffy19

pammex said:


> Shoot....I really wanted to hook up with you.....things have been a bit crazy....we were in PV....met many friends American and Mexican, got call from son...going to be grandparents, got some info on Belair, *and on way home in car found out my dad had been in terrible car accident in Mexico* ( he is okay, but dealing with legalities in Mexico LOL). Hopefully we can meet next time.....sorry....
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry iconnections had a crazy vacation and return and well just sort of lost track of dates, meeting people and months etc.....hopefully next time.....
> 
> 
> 
> Shoot we were in same place at same time....though we spent half at Velas and half at Casa Velas.....maybe next time....
> 
> 
> 
> Belaire is in the marina area, not where cruise ships come in but the marina area near airport.


Pam, I am so sorry to read about your father's accident in Mexico but I am glad that he is OK. We may meet later. I met flexible and her husband today and will meet other TUGgers too!


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## pianodinosaur

Pammex:  Best wishes for your father.  I am glad he is OK.


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## pammex

Thanks to all...my dad is doing good....( minor injuries and healing cuts..very lucky!!!) 73 and kicking with nine lives, even joking about his ordeal, good attitude but I was a wreck and not finding it too funny....  Now we are just buried with paperwork dealing with this.....I tell you Mexico loves paperwork....LOL.  ( of course everything is in Spanish and though can speak am not bilingual so my son is getting tired of translating, though he is so sweet to his grandad).  My parents said he was a lifesaver, being bilingual and dealing with police and all......good thing he did not go away with us.

All of you in PV, please have a shot of Don Julio for me or a margarita!!!

I connections have fun meeting fellow tuggers......I received a PM from flexible today....

To all of you enjoy your vacations......and watch for my upcoming reviews and pics of last vacation.....I am ready for another vacation already though....


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## pammex

Some of the Belair construction as of Jan. 2009......to follow


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## pammex

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/pammex/Jan 2009 Belair Construction/DSC00553.jpg


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## pammex

That's 14 pics.  The guard shack remains, equipment is on site and some work has been done as you can see....more pics to follow.....go the TUG banner in there too...LOL....now that should win a prize...don't you think????


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## pammex




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## pammex

Just a few more to go.....guess you could say a lot has been done and a lot yet to do...


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## pammex

Well that is it for this time for updated construction site at Belair..........looks improved to me....but then again I have no investment.......

Now you can check if webcam and info being given you as owners matches up.....Hope this helps some...

Best Wishes to all........


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## T_R_Oglodyte

I see you took the pictures on a Tuesday, which would be an ordinary work day.

I guess it must have been siesta time when you took the pictures.


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## pammex

LOL....as I have stated in other posts I have never seen more than a handlful of workers on site...in many visits, many times taking photos and a daily walk by while in PV.....It is going to take a LONG time with a crew this size....LOL...

Oh one of the pics does show a garfon ( 5 gal. bottled water container), which actually looks full.....as oppossed to many months of being on its side LOL...


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## PamF

Your photos could all be entitled "Stilllife in Puerto Vallarta" as the site seems to be missing any workers.

My parents bought here over 2 years ago and I sure hope that it is built while they are still able to travel!   I sure wish they hadn't bought or at least bought at a place that actually exists.


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## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire Update: Customer Sevice response*

Customer Service has notified me that they have promised no completion date. Has anyone been promised a date in writing? and how was this stated ?

Thanks

Until this is completed everyone will need to pay a usage fee to the temp. resort.


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## pianodinosaur

pammex:

The photos are fantastic.  I hope you had a good time taking them while on your vacation.

It is clear that Bellaire is not yet a functional resort.  Thanks


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## steve_esko

*Belaire update*

We purchased 4 weeks Diamond Executive Suite (1 registered + 3 unregistered weeks) @ Belaire in April 2007.  Fully understanding this was a pre-construction price & that was a big part that made it desirable, anyone who thought they were purchasing an existing facility are trying to kid themselves and others. 

While in PV the week of Jan 11-18 2009 my wife and I took in a Time Share presentation at Velas Vallarta.  It is only a stone’s throw away from the Belaire so we figured we might as well make a few bucks & get a free ride from Nuevo Vallarta where we were staying.  The sales manager we spoke to wasn’t fond of Belaire but he did say it would eventually get built which was a shred of good news and this coming from a competitor with an actual facility to sell.  It was sad toward the end of the presentation to listen to this poor guy practically beg me to buy though.  We did stop by the Belaire but without a reservation we were not able to sit down with anyone that day but we did speak to another couple who were there for the very reason we were and they said they felt better after talking to someone, they were also being taken to the Miramar for a tour.  We made an appointment for the following day and a rep did spend quite a bit of time with us answering our questions and concerns.  I took a few pictures which I will attach at link to 

http://s596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/steve_esko/ 

There were more steel structures in place than what we saw on the web cams before we left.  It also appears to have more in place since we arrived home. It was also explained to us that they only receive 3 sections a day which the guard also told us when I stopped by the main gate entrance on our way back out to the main road.  He even let me take a picture of his materials log sheet in which he checks off each load of steel structures as they arrive, picture is in the above photobucket link.   

Later in the week we took in another Time Share presentation @ the Flamingos & they actually were willing to offer us an equity exchange of our Belaire membership toward a Timeshare unit at their resort. (at an inflated rate I’m sure)  None the less another ray of hope toward Belaire.  

As far as seeing a sales reps at another resort who previously worked at Belaire as I read in an earlier post - we saw two former Playa del Sol salesmen working at Belaire the first day we stopped in.  I think it is common for these guys to jump from resort to another, nature of the beast I guess.

I’m going to remain being optimistic, understanding there were some initial delays due to the footing issues and weather conditions and also some mismanagement which I hope has been resolved. It is my understanding there is no need for a huge crew until the steel is in place and which time things should speed up as the shell starts to go up, etc.


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## TimeShare Junky

*Building Size*

I would like everyone to be aware that there are over now 800 members and one building. One member is a 1,000,000 investor. This gives him, I think it was 6 months, Full Penthouse. Do the math.


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## jschmidt

steve_esko said:


> I took a few pictures which I will attach at link to
> 
> http://s596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/steve_esko/



Steve,

I looked at your pictures of “The Bellaire Columns”.  They kind of remind me of the Greek Columns.   

I hope they are painted with Home Depot’s best quality paint; they may be exposed to the weather for a while!


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## steve_esko

hey I'm happy to see that they are actually going up as we speak ... thanks for the encouraging words


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## rockinghams

:hysterical: 





TimeShare Junky said:


> I would like everyone to be aware that there are over now 800 members and one building. One member is a 1,000,000 investor. This gives him, I think it was 6 months, Full Penthouse. Do the math.


I wrote to Belaire's forum with that same question to no avail. How dependable is your info on the amount of owners and is there any maximum mentioned or is that a very naive question?


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## flexible

We've been across the street at Velas Vallarta since January 3, 2009. We noticed a considerable change at Bel Air a few days ago. Our best count is there were 18 columns up on Tuesday.


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## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire Condos*

Next door to the Belaire sales building, two years ago the owner of Belair lived with some condos. 

During my visit in December. I saw this property packed with more condos. I wondered if he owned those and if he has paid for them with his salary. If this is the case, at least he made a good investment.


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## california-bighorn

*Status week of February 13-20*

We walked by Belaire 3 times during our stay in PV last week.  Although we never saw any activity at the worksite, there was evidence that work had been performed since the above pictures were posted.  I don't know the technical names for construction, but I'll try to describe the status I saw on the 20th as we went to the airport.
It looked like all of the vertical beams were in place on each of the concrete piers.  There were what appeared to be the horizonal beams laying on the ground ready to be hoisted into position.
So some work has been completed in the last month.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

california-bighorn said:


> We walked by Belaire 3 times during our stay in PV last week.  Although we never saw any activity at the worksite, there was evidence that work had been performed since the above pictures were posted.



We also just returned. I can confirm that there has been progress since steve_esko posted: 


steve_esko said:


> I took a few pictures which I will attach at link to
> 
> http://s596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/steve_esko/
> 
> .



When I walked past the site this morning, there was a crane truck on site that wasn't there in steve_esko's photos.  We noted the same crane in the exact same location on site three days earlier as well. Other than that, it looked pretty much unchanged.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*The Usual Belaire Stuff*

Oh my! I know all of you on this thread will be so surprised to hear the latest Belaire excuse. We just had friends stop by and they were told the construction was set back a bit by the recent earthquake!  Now I know PV has frequent earthquakes but I believe the last one (within the last month) was a small one. 
HMMMM....:hysterical:


----------



## Karen G

Hi, Snappy Sam 

Thanks for the update. That's certainly a new excuse.


----------



## Snappy Sam

Hi Karen,
I thought everyone would enjoy a good chuckle for the day! Now this one beats all!:rofl:


----------



## taffy19

I feel for the people who have bought in this project.  It's far from a "chuckling" matter unless you were able to rescind and got your money back.

We were at the marina recently but didn't get near this place because my SO didn't want to take a chance getting involved in a timeshare tour.

Flexible, are you still at the Velas Vallarta so can you see the progress from upstairs?  Please, give us an update.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

iconnections said:


> Flexible, are you still at the Velas Vallarta so can you see the progress from upstairs?  Please, give us an update.



How do you update something that doesn't change?  Isn't asking for an update on Belaire a bit like asking for an update on whether the ocean is still salty?


----------



## taffy19

Steve, when we were there, a lot of change took place as several vertical beams were hoisted. Flexible told me this too and she even posted it here.



flexible said:


> We've been across the street at Velas Vallarta since January 3, 2009. We noticed a considerable change at Bel Air a few days ago. Our best count is there were 18 columns up on Tuesday.


 
I would have liked to have seen it myself but my SO said: "Over his dead body" in other words "no". I have no idea what they have done since February but she may be able to see it from upstairs, if she is still at the same resort. I know that she was staying until after Easter but I don't remember where and at which resort.

It must be a very small developer that is building this supposedly "luxury" resort. I hope it is earthquake proof!  We saw whole resorts or condo projects almost completely built between the two visits we were there (June 08 - January 09). There is still a lot of construction going on in the PV/NV area and all around there too.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

iconnections said:


> Steve, when we were there, a lot of change took place as several vertical beams were hoisted. Flexible told me this too and she even posted it here.



Emmy - you're probably right. I was a bit hyperbolic in comparing construction of the Belaire with changes in the salinity of the ocean.

A more apt comparison might be with the retreats and advances of glaciers.  At the pace that Belaire is progressing, we will likely pass through current cycle of glacial melting and be well into the next ice age by the time the drywall contractor shows up on site.


----------



## taffy19

I agree with you there.


----------



## Snappy Sam

And I agree that the Belaire situation for those who have not or were unable to rescind is no laughing matter. However, the excuse of the recent earthquake delaying the project I thought was quite funny. No other builders have been delayed as the recent earthquake was a very short, typical one with some shaking. But nothing of any impact. 
I do hope however, on a serious note that anyone who still wants to believe what Belaire tells you might want to consider their earthquake excuse.


----------



## KarenLK

What earthquake??? I was there, and the bed danced a nit. Most people did not know that there had been an earthquake.
At least 2 people in PV told me that the whole thing is a bug fraud and there is litigation against them, but I got no more details.


----------



## pammex

Ah yes the earthquake....sorry but I have to chuckle....

I just got back from the area and have more photos, as soon as I get caught up and find my camera I will post them.  

There is work going on...as vertical beams are also now in place....still only exists a few workers..and yes many other resorts have already been completed since belair started.  For that matter a mall, a walmart and a condo development in my area have been completed in that time....

It is a positive that some work is being done but I have no clue why so slow and why all the lame excuses....earthquake....you mean a slight tremor is anything....

Still have my fingers crossed for those with a vested interest.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Profeco Response*

Dear Mr. Swartz, 

From Profeco,

The Department of Conciliation Services for Foreign Residents from this Federal Agency for Consumer Protection (PROFECO) has received the paperwork regarding your complaint against Sunset Group.

I have analyzed your complaint again and according to Article 105 from the Federal Law of Consumer’s Protection there is a term of one year, after the purchase, to submit a complaint through this Office and in your case, this term has exceeded.

The above since 2007 was the first year of use and it is supposse that your complaint starts in 2007 (for the non fulfillment of the contract)

Therefore your inconformity has exceeded the term.


To Profeco,

Believe me, I will spead the word that when dealing with a timeshare. Your agency supports Mexican cons to extract US dollars as long as they can hold out for one year. Never again and I will also pass the word not to make any Mexican deals in this manner. You will not return money, but you can shut them dowm based on my evidence and the many other US citizens that have complained.

TO US consulate,

Please help, the Profeco agency is supporting a timeshare con in PV. I can support all the neccessary document to support the scrupulous activity of Belaire Golf Resort. I have lost 14,000, have a broken contract with a string of promising good will in e-mails preventing me from seeking reimbustment help. If you can not protect me as the US citizens, who can. Hundreds of other americans are suffering from my same positions and there are multiple blogs about Belaire in PV.


----------



## Snappy Sam

I am so sorry for all of you who are getting no help. I am afraid our U.S. Consulate will also have their hands tied because of the laws. But they certainly can investigate and make us aware of their investigation and the results. 
These Belaire folks are no dummys as is obvious from their continued 
success in duping so many people. What astounds me is that no one seems to be able to shut them down.
You have to wonder who and what all is involved with this operation. I think the one saving grace has been TUG. People like myself found TUG just in time for us to rescind. Hopefully by keeping an eye on this we can continue to help others before it is too late for others.


----------



## pammex

Snappy Sam said:


> I am so sorry for all of you who are getting no help. I am afraid our U.S. Consulate will also have their hands tied because of the laws. But they certainly can investigate and make us aware of their investigation and the results.
> These Belaire folks are no dummys as is obvious from their continued
> success in duping so many people. What astounds me is that no one seems to be able to shut them down.
> You have to wonder who and what all is involved with this operation. I think the one saving grace has been TUG. People like myself found TUG just in time for us to rescind. Hopefully by keeping an eye on this we can continue to help others before it is too late for others.



I too think the US Consulate will have hands tied due to laws of two countries.  Yes they can investigate but not to sure or positive they will.  

Yes you do have to wonder who and what is involved in this operation, things are quite different in Mexico than in the US and the laws are totally different.  

TUG has been invaluable in this regard for many people..

Please try to keep your common sense when on vacation in Mexico, the same applies in Mexico if sounds too good to be true it most likely is.  

I did note more work has been done on site as my pics will show but I fear this will be a long time if ever in completion and even then there are some sketchy areas of the contract......

My heart goes out to all invested in this...I own many timeshares in Mexico and am happy with each one, I was lucky I did not take the bait on this one....a lot could have to do with my involvement in TUG and the knowledge I have gAined from so many.


----------



## Snappy Sam

I am surprised we haven't heard from anyone lately who has been to a Belaire presentation recently. Anyone who has been there in the last couple of months we'd like to hear what you were told, if you purchased or not and if not, how were you treated, etc.


----------



## Sponge

We went to the Dog and Pony show on Feb.12th. Had to go through 4 different people just to get in the door!!! Had a green salesman and it was pretty low key. Until we went to collect the peso's. They tried to tell us that we had been there before. I took the sheet of paper they had and it had the same name as mine but a Califoirnia address. Thing's went down hill from there. They asked how many presentation we had been on that week. We told them this was the only one. HA-HA !!!!! After we received the cash they proceeded to call us stroker's. I said they had it wrong we were PROFESSIONAL stroker's !!! Total time 3 hours and $5,500.00 pesos.:rofl:


----------



## pammex

When we went they also asked us how many presentations we had been on and then told us that the US IRS was going to tax the presentation gifts received etc.  We laughed so hard and asked how would they know.....we were told oh you will have to fill out a form or they will just know....more laughs...

PROFESSIONAL STROKERS....I love it......You have no clue how hard I am laughing...good for you, what a great comeback!!!:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


----------



## Snappy Sam

Thanks for the latest and greatest Sponge! I had wondered why we hadn't heard anything recently but it sounds like the usual Belaire stuff.
Anyone else? Are the same people working at the Belaire? Updates are always appreciated.


----------



## Sponge

Steve and Kirby have moved to the Belaire from Playa Del Sol. They are manager's. They popped a bottle of champagne when we were there and the manager's were the only ones drinking it !!  Same s**t different location.


----------



## pammex

No clue on who is working at Belair now......in sales or such...but I can say with many passes over two weeks by Belair the construction crew remains very small....but yet work has been done as you will see from my following pics....

Still a long way from being a usable facility though but at least there is some progress...who knows how much will be accomplished before the rainy season hits and they use that as another reason for delays....maybe...


----------



## pammex




----------



## pammex




----------



## pammex




----------



## pammex




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## pammex




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## pammex




----------



## pammex

Well there you go 12 updated pics for March 2009.  I do have to say this is more progres than I have seen for much time......I hope for those invested it continues.  

Sorry no banner pics this time at Belair.....LOL.  Will continue to post more pics on my next return in a few months............

Oh though these were taken on a saturday I believe, it was still before close of day at 2pm......for construction crews....they probably should be working around the clock...


----------



## Karen G

Pam, thanks for posting all those pictures. It is interesting to see all that framework or whatever the correct term is for the white things. They almost look like they are made of plastic.  We appreciate your taking the time to take and post the pictures. Good work!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Karen G said:


> Pam, thanks for posting all those pictures. It is interesting to see all that framework or whatever the correct term is for the white things. They almost look like they are made of plastic.  We appreciate your taking the time to take and post the pictures. Good work!



Posts and beams, Karen.  And you are correct; together they make up the structural framework.


----------



## Karen G

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Posts and beams


Thanks, Steve.  I learn something every day on TUG!


----------



## pammex

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Posts and beams, Karen.  And you are correct; together they make up the structural framework.



Not of plastic though....steel and already some rust showing....so thus I assume :hysterical: they will have to repaint them before they proceed further.....

Hubby says he really can't figure out the configuration based on show units as yet, he is a builder...so we will see what happens next visit.....certainly an interesting project to follow.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Building Layout*

You must realize, they have told me on my last visit that the configuation is to change. However, they said it will be better. The sales building will eventually be torn down for the second tower. Maybe the 2nd tower will be built 7 years from now for they will milk it for every penny. :hysterical: 

They are under no obligation to sell you what you see.  That style is not in the contract and you had a year to dispute any item in the contract with Profeco or forget it.  According to Profeco. Any e-mails promises that are not in the contract do not need to be met. Sorry.


----------



## pammex

TimeShare Junky said:


> You must realize, they have told me on my last visit that the configuation is to change. However, they said it will be better. The sales building will eventually be torn down for the second tower. Maybe the 2nd tower will be built 7 years from now for they will milk it for every penny. :hysterical:
> 
> They are under no obligation to sell you what you see.  That style is not in the contract and you had a year to dispute any item in the contract with Profeco or forget it.  According to Profeco. Any e-mails promises that are not in the contract do not need to be met. Sorry.



Yes, we were told that the sales building would be torn down....for a second tower when we questioned where they would fit what they stated....

The contract was vague, long and well not very protective of investors.....this could become another issue down the road.  

Quite the deal you buy something they are under no contract that it is what you were shown......this really is scary!!!


----------



## TimeShare Junky

What percentage does it look like from your husbands point of view that it will really looks close to the same building as what we were presented in a display. : )


----------



## TimeShare Junky

pammex said:


> Yes, we were told that the sales building would be torn down....for a second tower when we questioned where they would fit what they stated....
> 
> The contract was vague, long and well not very protective of investors.....this could become another issue down the road.
> 
> Quite the deal you buy something they are under no contract that it is what you were shown......this really is scary!!!



They are not under obligation it is not in the contract. I wonder if I could fight it in Mexico court. However, my 14K is peanuts compaired to the money others have lost. I would lose to much money and then they would file Bankrupcy because 200 others have also sued them and under the contact they keep the property and building. I would like to know if it is true the builder sued Belaire and Belaire lost and what other litigations are going on.


----------



## pammex

Hate to say this but I do not think you want to fight it in Mexican Court......you will end up paying more than what you invested....the laws are quite different here and frankly I've never heard of a foreigner coming out ahead!  Sorry.

I thought there was something in their contract where if they went belly up or sold out that the buyer of the fractional actually owned nothing.....it was legalese of course and I know my DH questioned this, as usually contracts have some protection for buyers if building sold, of bancrucy etc.  

We felt the contract covered them very well, all the bases but absolutely nothing for the buyer.  

I do not know if the builder sued but seems to me the building company did change......so something up with that.   

My heart goe out to all who bought, I would be so mad if I could not use something I paid for....this is why we never go buy pre-construction....in Mexico.  Too many loopholes no tin favor of buyer etc.


----------



## jeanbean

*Belaire*

Does anyone have any new Belaire news to help ease the pain?


----------



## Karen G

I was glad to see the Belaire thread resurface.  It has been a long, long time since anyone has posted to it.  I wonder what's going on down there?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Karen G said:


> I was glad to see the Belaire thread resurface.  It has been a long, long time since anyone has posted to it.  I wonder what's going on down there?



Or what's not going on, hmmmmm???


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*My latest question for the scam man*

There was a question I asked as to why Belaire shows about 7-10 floors and I only see three. Their response.

*Dear Mr. Swartz,

Thank you for contacting us.

You are absolutely right! By the end of this year we hope to have ready those 3 floors in order for us to have inventory. We will keep working on the complete tower in order for us to have ready next year. *

With over 800 contracts and one spending 1,000,000 on a penthouse for six months and other spending big bucks, how many will fit on the three floors (6)?, then multiply by 52.....312 available weeks (One has it for six months, full penthouse). Have you ever seen any one build like that ???? Has any heard on the status for the other site in PV (Miramar) Is that right ? Profeco is no help, I did not even get a reply.


----------



## jeanbean

*Belaire*

Even in Mexico, we, who have invested in the Belaire should have some recourse. Contracts are supposedly valid everywhere. It has been 2 yrs. since our investment and we have nothing, is that true with others?


----------



## Scuba2

TimeShare Junky said:


> There was a question I asked as to why Belaire shows about 7-10 floors and I only see three. Their response.
> 
> *Dear Mr. Swartz,
> 
> Thank you for contacting us.
> 
> You are absolutely right! By the end of this year we hope to have ready those 3 floors in order for us to have inventory. We will keep working on the complete tower in order for us to have ready next year. *
> 
> With over 800 contracts and one spending 1,000,000 on a penthouse for six months and other spending big bucks, how many will fit on the three floors (6)?, then multiply by 52.....312 available weeks (One has it for six months, full penthouse). Have you ever seen any one build like that ???? Has any heard on the status for the other site in PV (Miramar) Is that right ? Profeco is no help, I did not even get a reply.



 To clarify: The three floors you see are: One floor of parking, One floor of lobby,etc. and one floor of rooms.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Scuba2 said:


> To clarify: The three floors you see are: One floor of parking, One floor of lobby,etc. and one floor of rooms.



The owners new crib.


----------



## Jane Doe

Well, good. At least you got some of the money they owe to thousands. But as far as the "timeshare game in Vallarta" it has drastically changed. Most of the resorts only pay 3000 pesos to the promoter, including Villa del Palmar, Playa del Sol, Velas Vallarta, and 90% of the tours for Mayan (unless you are at a Gold Crown resort - only 8 hotels qualify for slightly higher pay). But the upside is that the presentations are mostly lower key now (except Mayan of course, and Belaire), Belaire and M still pay 5000 to the promoter, but they are not in the hotel association, so the presentaions at those resorts are higher pressure like Mayan. There is NO FLU here though incase anyone is thinking about coming down. Will try to get new photos next week of belaire


----------



## missdaisy10

*Registry Collection Info on Belaire*

I should have posted this earlier.  I have pasted below some email communications that I have received from The Registry Collection back in March.  Bottom line:  Belaire is telling them that completion will be in September.  Anyone want to bet on that one? 

 From: Scharff, Maryann On Behalf Of registry-collection, InquirySent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:29 PMTo: 'dennis_painter@hotmail.com'Subject: The Registry Collection, Belaire inquiry Dear Mr. Painter, Per our original communication, I am following up with you about the Belaire affiliation with The Registry Collection. I emailed our operations team to advise the latest update from the property. I will let you know when I receive a response.  Kind regards

Subject: FW: The Registry Collection, Belaire inquiryDate: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:20:24 -0500From: Inquiry@registry-collection.comTo: dennis_painter@hotmail.com     Dear Mr. Painter, I have just learned from our operations liaison that The Belaire is currently about6 months behind schedule. We have updated our information accordingly. IhaveFlagged this for follow up with you again in September. Kind regards, Mary Ann  


 Thank you for keeping me posted. According to your records, the additional six months would make their completion date when? Dennis Painter   

Sent: Mon 3/23/09 10:27 AM 
To:  dennis painter (dennis_painter@hotmail.com) 

Dear Mr. Painter, Hopefully late August, I would say September may be more likely... Kind regards, Mary Ann


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*6 months behind*

They were 6 months behind one year ago and they have three floors. A garage,lobby and 1st floor. How are all of the member suppose to fit. Also,I heard that this was suppose to be done at end of year. What about the rainy season ?


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*More info from the Redweek site*

http://www.redweek.com/forums/messages?thread_id=13197


----------



## Jane Doe

TimeShare Junky said:


> They were 6 months behind one year ago and they have three floors. A garage,lobby and 1st floor. How are all of the member suppose to fit. Also,I heard that this was suppose to be done at end of year. What about the rainy season ?



Good news for you belairians, I saw Belaire today. They have three floors up in iron. As far as for the rainy season, the only hard part is when they are digging holes for concrete. It is really better not to pour concrete foundations in the rainy season. But since the one building they have is already up it is fine. I think that they will use part of the constructions site for parking and not a floor of the building. But at least there are going to be rooms.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Jane Doe said:


> Good news for you belairians, I saw Belaire today. They have three floors up in iron. As far as for the rainy season, the only hard part is when they are digging holes for concrete. It is really better not to pour concrete foundations in the rainy season. But since the one building they have is already up it is fine. I think that they will use part of the constructions site for parking and not a floor of the building. But at least there are going to be rooms.



Ummmmm - the best time to pour concrete is when the weather is wet.  Concrete cures better in wet weather.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Jane Doe said:


> Good news for you belairians, I saw Belaire today. They have three floors up in iron. As far as for the rainy season, the only hard part is when they are digging holes for concrete. It is really better not to pour concrete foundations in the rainy season. But since the one building they have is already up it is fine. I think that they will use part of the constructions site for parking and not a floor of the building. But at least there are going to be rooms.



I do not know where you got your information, but the June news letter states that the garage is on the bottom, the lobby and then one floor of rooms. Where does everyone else go. Miramar, was another lie (ready for January). Pile on the BS.


----------



## Scuba2

TimeShare Junky said:


> I do not know where you got your information, but the June news letter states that the garage is on the bottom, the lobby and then one floor of rooms. Where does everyone else go. Miramar, was another lie (ready for January). Pile on the BS.



Where did you get the June newsletter?  I haven't had a newsletter emailed to me in forever.  Thanks.


----------



## steve_esko

*June News Letter*

Scuba,
The June News Letter was sent out a few days ago via email

It was an Adobe Acrobat attachment and if I knew how to attach it to this post I would have. 

Steve


----------



## Scuba2

steve_esko said:


> Scuba,
> The June News Letter was sent out a few days ago via email
> 
> It was an Adobe Acrobat attachment and if I knew how to attach it to this post I would have.
> 
> Steve



Thanks.  I found it in my spam filter.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Newsletter*

Did anyone ever post the newsletter? We are on our way to PV(if the tropical storm/hurricane doesn't slow us down) and will give a report when we stop by the Belaire.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Snappy Sam said:


> Did anyone ever post the newsletter? We are on our way to PV(if the tropical storm/hurricane doesn't slow us down) and will give a report when we stop by the Belaire.



When the three floors are done. When do you think you will be able to get access to the single floor of rooms ? They are going to tear down the current building and you need a show room.

Whats the status on Maramar ?


----------



## Snappy Sam

*No Belaire Newsletter?*

So is no one is able to post the June Belaire Newsletter? 

Interestingly the cameras finally are doing some good for those who are traveling to PV now. You can see the current status of tropical storm Andres! 

Any doubt that the storm will set back Belaire progress once again?  

We will check on Miramar status when we are there shortly and will report.


----------



## footballmom

*Another American sucker?*

 We just visited the Belaire last week (June 26th) and yes, we were sucked into the deal.   I am so afraid now of losing my money, having read the posts on this site.  My head is spinning.  I really am unsure of what to do at this point.  We spent so much time talking to our sales person (Joe Pomares) and to Antonio Copela.  A total of the good part of 3 days.  Antonio actaully spent about 5 hours with us - which we couldn't believe because we were not investing big bucks, and had no intentions of investing more than the original amount.  The building is taking shape, structurally, but is not making great progress.  The storm last week barely touched PV, so that should not have made a big difference.

I'd love to hear what's been going on with people lately who have contacted Profeco for their money back.  Is it working?


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Profeco response; on year limit*



footballmom said:


> We just visited the Belaire last week (June 26th) and yes, we were sucked into the deal.   I am so afraid now of losing my money, having read the posts on this site.  My head is spinning.  I really am unsure of what to do at this point.  We spent so much time talking to our sales person (Joe Pomares) and to Antonio Copela.  A total of the good part of 3 days.  Antonio actaully spent about 5 hours with us - which we couldn't believe because we were not investing big bucks, and had no intentions of investing more than the original amount.  The building is taking shape, structurally, but is not making great progress.  The storm last week barely touched PV, so that should not have made a big difference.
> 
> I'd love to hear what's been going on with people lately who have contacted Profeco for their money back.  Is it working?



Dear Mr. Swartz, 

The Department of Conciliation Services for Foreign Residents from this Federal Agency for Consumer Protection (PROFECO) has received the paperwork regarding your complaint against Sunset Group.

After analyzing your complaint, we have to inform that your complaint cannot be processed for the following reason:

According to the Article 105 from the Federal Law of Consumer’s Protection there is a term of one year, after the purchase, to submit a complaint through this Office and in your case, this term has exceeded.

The above since you signed in 2006, the first year of use was 2007; therefore your inconformity has exceeded the term.

Signed 2006 and no building after 3 years. huh. there have been 2 years of delays and only one floor of units are being built .


----------



## Karen G

footballmom said:


> We just visited the Belaire last week (June 26th) and yes, we were sucked into the deal.


If you bought on June 26, you are still within the five-day right of rescission according to Mexican law.  But, you must act TODAY.  Rescind the contract immediately.  It's your only hope of ever seeing your money again.

Don't try to rescind through PROFECO. Send your letter of rescission directly to Belaire.  Send it be registered mail, return receipt, or whatever means you can that will give you a dated receipt showing that you sent it within the rescission period. Notify your credit card company and dispute the charge if you used a card for your payment.  You probably won't find any rescission instructions in your paperwork--if you do follow them exactly--but if you don't, just send a simple statement that you are rescinding your contract. Just give the date of the contract, a contract number if there is one, and your names and address. DO IT NOW.


----------



## missdaisy10

*Belaire Still At It*

Friends of ours (regular visitors to PV) just returned with a Belaire report.  We met them when we were in PV two years ago and made the mistake of believing what Antonio and his group of lying salespeople said to entice us to buy.  

Our friends know our story so when one of their friends agreed to go to a Belaire presentation, they amply warned them prior to their going.  Even told them our experience and how much we lost.  So, what happens even with all that forewarning?  The Belaire package and all the "sincere" promises persuade them to trade in one of their timeshares and put up some cash in order to have access to Belaire when it is finished.  

I guess we all want to believe there is something out there that is so good that we can't pass it up even if a little rational thought and research (which was not available two years ago when we got sucked in) warn otherwise.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

Has anbody visted the Mirmar Project or have any information regarding when and if it will open.  Any information you have will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.


----------



## taffy19

Karen G said:


> If you bought on June 26, you are still within the five-day right of rescission according to Mexican law. But, you must act TODAY. Rescind the contract immediately. It's your only hope of ever seeing your money again.
> 
> Don't try to rescind through PROFECO. Send your letter of rescission directly to Belaire. Send it be registered mail, return receipt, or whatever means you can that will give you a dated receipt showing that you sent it within the rescission period. Notify your credit card company and dispute the charge if you used a card for your payment. You probably won't find any rescission instructions in your paperwork--if you do follow them exactly--but if you don't, just send a simple statement that you are rescinding your contract. Just give the date of the contract, a contract number if there is one, and your names and address. DO IT NOW.


I wonder if footballmom read your post in time to send in their rescission notice to this resort?  I looked if she has been back and she was today.  It would be too late now.  How sad.   

How far is the project today?  I just looked here.  It is very slow next to other projects in the area but it may be completed one day.  I also found this web site here.  They say it is an excellent location.  It's not even on the ocean.    I believe that it is in the marina or next to a golf course.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*July 11th Update*

I wish there was positive news to report but unfortunately there is none. The Belaire continues to offer 5000 Pesos for a visit and still seems to be selling "AIR". There is no real work going on there and since last year when we visited at least three new high rise towers have been built in PV. Two Icon towers and one more Peninsula. So if you think the Belaire will EVER be a reality you are making a mistake. We need to keep this thread current to warn others. Antonio Copola seems to be there more than ever (although he says he just got back from Vegas the day before). Every other Time Share here knows what Belaire is doing and their reps say that Antonio once worked for the Grand Mayan and was fired. Why? Big surprise! For making promises that were impossible. WE were also told he was accused of taking money from the Mayan. No one believes he is using his real name. Of course this is only what we were told so make your own judgements. But whatever you do, PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THE BELAIRE!!!!!


----------



## taffy19

*Live camera no more!*

They used to have two live cameras on this site that showed you what was going on but this is the same picture I saw yesterday too. It is no longer live!

You better be very worried if you are involved with this project. You have one year only to contact Profeco, if you feel that you were told a bunch of lies or false promises.

I sincerely hope that people will find this thread in time so they can rescind their contract if they have any doubts. You can always buy it later again and re-sales will be plenty too.


----------



## footballmom

*Need some advice*

 Unfortunately, I was not able to rescind the contract within 5 days, as our contract was signed on June 23rd.  I have tried to contact PROFECO via email to see if I could get information regarding the number and type of complaints that they have recieved regarding the Beliare.  I received one response stating that there have been 6 complaints received in 2009.  I replied asking the nature of these complaints and never received an answer.

We have not actually paid anything yet.  The deposit was charged to a personal credit card which isn't due until mid-August.  The balance is due to the Belaire on July 23rd.  Once I contact PROFECO with a formal complaint, can I dispute the credit card charges and simply not pay the balance to Belaire?

Antonio also convinced us, against our better judgement, to register for the LLC.  What a huge mistake!  That cost us an additional $1,000.  Just for the record, beware when dealing with LegalZoom.com.  They also give promises and don't deliver.  We paid extra for the expedited paperwork and are still waiting for it.  We still can't figure out why Antonio was so adamant about this service.  I have contacted LegalZoom.com several times and have gotten jerked around by them also.

I also did some googling on the names of the people quoted in the newsletter we received when at the Belaire.  All 3 happen to be from Canada.  Coincidence?  I was able to locate one couple (the last one quoted in the newsletter - don't want to use anyone's name for fear of retaliation!).  They have a realty website which specifically lists the Belaire.  I sent them an email inquiring about what they know of the Belaire but have never received a response.  Curious?

I would appreciate any advice on how to contact PROFECO, what to say in a letter to them, etc.  Just help me get out of this contract!  Is it too late for me?

Thanks!!


----------



## Karen G

footballmom said:


> I would appreciate any advice on how to contact PROFECO, what to say in a letter to them, etc.  Just help me get out of this contract!  Is it too late for me?


I think I recall someone getting a response from PROFECO that you had to file your claim with them within a year of the contract date.  Read through this whole long thread and you should find more information. 

If it were me I think I would go ahead and send a rescission letter to Belaire anyway. I would dispute the credit card charges and cancel the card. I wouldn't pay anything to Belaire while I was working through everything with PROFECO.  Though you are past the five-day rescission period, given everything that has been said about this project and the
false claims and promises others have reported, it would seem very foolish to pay them anything.

This LegalZoom thing is very curious.  This is the first time I've heard of that tactic by Belaire.

Here's  a link to Profeco.


----------



## footballmom

*Miramar*

I called the Miramar 800-number today and they are still not open.  I was told to try to call back on Monday to see if they would be accepting reservations then.  Something about the kitchen not being complete . . .


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

If anybody is fortunate enought to obtain a reservation at Miramar would they please post it on TUG.

Thanks


----------



## TimeShare Junky

TimeShare Junky said:


> There was a question I asked as to why Belaire shows about 7-10 floors and I only see three. Their response.
> 
> *Dear Mr. Swartz,
> 
> Thank you for contacting us.
> 
> You are absolutely right! By the end of this year we hope to have ready those 3 floors in order for us to have inventory. We will keep working on the complete tower in order for us to have ready next year. *
> 
> With over 800 contracts and one spending 1,000,000 on a penthouse for six months and other spending big bucks, how many will fit on the three floors (6)?, then multiply by 52.....312 available weeks (One has it for six months, full penthouse). Have you ever seen any one build like that ???? Has any heard on the status for the other site in PV (Miramar) Is that right ? Profeco is no help, I did not even get a reply.



Here is some proof that there is not enough room at Belaire and that we are expected to use their other resorts. How can they get away with this ???? They are working on another resort in PV, why not finish Belaire ? I think this Building is for the owner and Mexican officials.

Dear Mr. Swartz,

Thank you for contacting us.

We do have a sister resort that is Miramar and that is what we are going to provide to our members with almost the same services as Belaire. 

So far what I know is that Belaire will have only room on those 3 first floor, still it would not be enough for all our members that´s why we have our sister resort and working on another resorts in Pto Vallarta. 

Well Mr. Swartz I hope my answer helps a little.

Kindly,


----------



## BART55

*Belaire Vacation Resort*

What's new at the Belaire Vacation Resort in Puerto Vallarta? How do current owners feel about their progress or lack therof?


----------



## brucecz

BART55 said:


> What's new at the Belaire Vacation Resort in Puerto Vallarta? How do current owners feel about their progress or lack therof?



I cancelled membership in time for valid several reasons but for some  "  Interesting progress reports" go back to postings 8 and 9 on this string" posted back in April of 2008.

They and all of the many "creative" broken promises make for several year would be almost funny if so many buyers had not paid so much for all of the broken promises up to this point. I feel very sorry for the amount of stress and grief  the buyers have been put through.

If you have seen all the the posts in all of the several Belaire threads on Tug you would hope that everone had a chance to read those strings before even thinking about touring the Belaire.

Bruce


----------



## BART55

*New to the site*

I just figured out how to read all of your useful comments......this is very worrisome.  What about the Luxury Experience?  Is that for real?


----------



## brucecz

BART55 said:


> I just figured out how to read all of your useful comments......this is very worrisome.  What about the Luxury Experience?  Is that for real?



If you or anyone else bought IMHO I suggest you read the postings that have helped people recind thier contracts in a lawfull legal manner.

I am sure the Belaire developer is having a :whoopie: " Luxury Experience" on all the Millions he has collected with very little apparently spent on labor to build and building materials.

I wonder what the ratio is that has been spent on sales commisons and ads compared to what has been spent on labor and building materials.

The normal rule of thumb we have been told is about 50% goes for developers and sales people commissions and for promotionial costs.  What do you others think is the ratio for the Belaire?  For  sales commissions and ads I will guess about 98% of the  Belaire income went to pay sales commisions.


Bruce


----------



## BART55

*What to do?*

Going forward, what to do? Am I able to rescind within a 12 month period?  Has anyone gone through that process who can advise me accordingly?


----------



## Karen G

BART55 said:


> Going forward, what to do? Am I able to rescind within a 12 month period?  Has anyone gone through that process who can advise me accordingly?


Scroll back up to post #582 and click on the link for PROFECO.  You can
contact them and see if they can help you.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Get busy and get out of Belaire!*

Please do not waste any time getting out of the Belaire! There is absolutely no one who lives in PV who doesn't say that this will never be built. The thoughts of what is really going on there vary but the bottom line is that everyone we spoke to about the Belaire who lives in PV says that legitimate is not in the vocabulary of Belaire people. THey have even made promises to their sales people and haven't lived up to what they promised them in writing. Antonio was fired from the Grand Mayan where he was a salesperson making promises that were impossible gor the Mayan to keep. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to rescind as soon as possible if you don't want to throw money away.


----------



## BART55

*How to rescind?*

I'll read my contract and contact PROFECO, but what typically happens? I traded 2 timeshares and am still making a monthly payment.  Any chance of getting something back?


----------



## Karen G

BART55 said:


> I'll read my contract and contact PROFECO, but what typically happens? I traded 2 timeshares and am still making a monthly payment.  Any chance of getting something back?


I don't know what, if anything, you'll get back.  But, you should check with the two timeshare companies that you think you traded in and see if the transfer ever actually happened.  You may still own them and may still be liable for the annual fees. Sometimes on trade-ins unscrupulous companies never actually take ownership.


----------



## brucecz

Karen gave you some great advice.

When did you sign?  If it was in the last month and your down payment was made by paying with a credit card, then contact you credit card company ASAP and try to stop  the down payment payment or any other  future payments and contest the charges.

I mailed in a copy of our recission to our credit card company  by registered mail and also sent proof that we had done the same type of registered mail to the Belaire and PROFECO to our credit card company. The $6,000  we paid in full for the 10 week package was refunded to our account back in 2007.

Refer your credit card company to this string so they understand why you want to stop payment. 

Good luck.

Bruce


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Make copies of EVERYTHING!*

And when you contact your credit card company, be sure to include copies of all of your actions such as emails, letters, copy of ther contact with highlighted sections, etc. Bruce's suggestion is an excellent idea to let your credit card company know about this website. You are more than welcome to copy any and all of the messages I have on here. 
If you wrote a check, then of course stop payment immediately if you haven't done so already. I know of four people who thought they had turned over their timeshare to the Belaire and as Karen said, it never happened! So contact your other timeshares also to make sure it hasn't taken place. Keep us posted and we ALL wish you sucess in getting out of this mess.


----------



## BART55

*Thanks*

Thanks to all of you.  I appreciate your suggestions.


----------



## Scuba2

Snappy Sam said:


> And when you contact your credit card company, be sure to include copies of all of your actions such as emails, letters, copy of ther contact with highlighted sections, etc. Bruce's suggestion is an excellent idea to let your credit card company know about this website. You are more than welcome to copy any and all of the messages I have on here.
> If you wrote a check, then of course stop payment immediately if you haven't done so already. I know of four people who thought they had turned over their timeshare to the Belaire and as Karen said, it never happened! So contact your other timeshares also to make sure it hasn't taken place. Keep us posted and we ALL wish you sucess in getting out of this mess.




We got in trouble with our timeshare because they wanted us to pay our maintenance fee.  We kept insisting that we had traded the timeshare and didn't owe a fee.  They kept insisting on payment and threatening to turn us over to collections.  After 8 months we got a phone call from a sales company saying they didn't want our timeshare and we could have it back at no cost.  It worked out in the end but caused a lot of frustration in the interim.


----------



## Snappy Sam

BART55 said:


> I'll read my contract and contact PROFECO, but what typically happens? I traded 2 timeshares and am still making a monthly payment.  Any chance of getting something back?



Any news Bart on your attempt to rescind?


----------



## kiwi4748

wind said:


> We are still hoping for more results as we have to send in our balance
> due this week. We are glad to see some progress since being in Puerto
> Vallarta in March.
> I am a realtor, so I have read our contract over for the 5th time and
> have not found the article Bruce keeps referring to. Please watch the
> spelling by the way...
> I think the contracts have been changed. Mine reads ..." 5.2 EXTRAORDINARY FEES Any payment of money incurred for unforeseeable events during normal operation and maintenance of the properties or the establishment considerd as urgent, necessary or essential for total and partial upkeep thereof: and common areas, facilities, equipment and services, for the upkeep or replacement of furniture or equipment , or which if not applied the establishment or part of it are at risk of being lost, destroyed or damaged in such a way that the function they were created, constructed or intended for cannot be fulfilled."
> Check your contracts. I assume they are tweaked now and then as we found several errors in spelling and typos which we brought to their attention.
> Other owners, let me know, do you get your members number after you pay
> the total amount due? I only have a contract number and a reference number.
> Wind
> Wilmington, NC
> ps. I didn't join tugs because this is not my life.


Email Belaire and ask them how you sign into the owners site  .... they will send you a number to sign in with.
I'm also one of the ever hopeful owners!!??
Joan.


----------



## kiwi4748

missdaisy10 said:


> I asked this before but never received a clear answer.  When did Belaire supposedly buy this property for its members to use?  How do you know this legit?  In light of all their other lies, how do you know that this is not one more of their attempts to convince members and prospective purchasers that they really are a legitimate operation?  I seem to recall that Miramar is in Mismaloya.  Is this correct?  Is it a new property or a renovation of an existing property?  If a reno, is this old Casa Iguana property at the river on the off side of the highway away from the beach?  I don't have access to Belaire's communications to members any longer but would appreciate knowing what they are supposedly up to.


WE also bought into the Belaire in May '09 before we read all the negative stuff. The salesperson did take us up to see the Miramar  .... it is a new building, but looks like some buildings on the property have been renovated. It is lovely and the views are gorgeous  .... supposed to be open as of July '09 and I must say the new building did look mostly finished. We are going to PVR for another look at the Belaire and to ask questions in September. We'll try to get them to confirm a stay for us at the Miramar early in 2010  ... it will be interesting to see if we get to stay there??
Joan.


----------



## cmdrbob

PuertoVallartaGirl said:


> Info to Newbies.
> 
> I am a guest here but I worked one week in November 2007 at the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa.  If you are offered a crazy deal at the Belaire Golf Resort and Spa. Don't believe it.
> 
> I was supposed to take the place of Dorota as a Legal Verification Officer. I was told they were going to fire her because she was scaring the customers.
> 
> My first day a bird pooped on my head and I knew it was a sign that something was wrong.
> 
> But the main thing I want to say is .. when I was working there I would see them proposing these 130k deals and then when it was rejected come back and sell 2 weeks a year for 10 years extendable for 100 years for only 100 dollars a year. These deals would be sold for like 6k or 10k.
> 
> I made a big deal to say to Carlos, Guido (or what ever the brothers name is of the owner) and even Antonio (the owner) that this deal would lose them money. Finally after a lot of questions from me, they said to me very clearly, the people with those deals will never stay at the Belaire. "Basically they just bought themselves a vacation club membership and we will make sure that they NEVER get in to Belaire. " It is refered to as an Exit. And they call it "recovering their marketing money". And they do so quite openly.
> 
> I said I thought it was wrong, and I also said I would not be able to slide the truth as good as Dorota. I am an extremely honest person and just couldn't do it. So... I got fired.
> 
> As for Profeco... one of the sales people also told me that now days you can get your money back AFTER the 5 day recision period. I had told him I bought Velas Vallarta.  He acknowledged it was basically a waste of money.  He also told me even though it had been 3 months since I bought, nowdays I could probably get my money back partially if not all. (though I did not do it)
> 
> As far as construction. As in other posts here about Belaire, nothing has changed since November 2007, since I worked there. They moved some equipment around and fixed their fence up a bit because it really looked deserted when I worked there. Even if their website shows a full building it is just a computer composite, nextdoor to the the model's it is just a dirt lot.
> 
> As far as the beach club, I was told they were negotiating a deal to use some beachfront property but the golf course actually is not part of Belaire at all. That is what I was told.
> 
> I thought it was hilarious when one poster posted that the owner, claimed to be worth millions but was also the same person that sold them a unit at the Mayan several years ago.
> 
> When I worked there I knew deep down that if they hadn't fired me I would have had to quit, it really seemed like a scam even from a new person working there.
> 
> Sincerely, PuertoVallartaGirl


Has any one ever got there money back?


----------



## cmdrbob

Has any one ever got there moniy back?


----------



## Karen G

If you read through this very long thread you'll find some people did get their money back when they cancelled within the rescission period.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Karen G said:


> If you read through this very long thread you'll find some people did get their money back when they cancelled within the rescission period.



A Perfeco complaint is also only good for one year.


----------



## Paleta

*8 guys putzing around the construction site today*

Hello everyone,

I am a guest.  I discovered your site when I did a search for the Belaire Resort in PV.  I am here on holiday and almost every promoter that talks to me is raving about a new place called the Belaire.  I have been here in PV about 5 times and had not heard of the Belaire.  They said it was not time share and it was by far the best place to stay in PV.  So, naturally, before signing up for a presentation, I did a quick internet search and found TUG.  

So, I read the whole thread and by that time, I HAD to attend the presentation.  In the taxi on the way to the Belaire, the promoter told me that there were 3 couples that had been disqualified before we arrived.  They told us they only take about 5 couples a day and 3 of them had been disqualified. They assured us we would be fine and there would be no problems.  We were coached by three different promoters/employees and screened by the salesman and by the manager to make sure that I didn't have any biases about preconstruction, that our income was above $100,000/yr, and that the falling economy wouldn't prevent us from making a purchasing decision.  We passed the initial screening.  

Our salesman took 50 minutes to get through the vacation survey before breakfast and then another 25 minutes waiting for our simple breakfast order.  The salesman mentioned several times that he was hungry, and when the food came, he ate very quickly.  He said, "Fair enough?" several times during breakfast.  

After breakfast, I used the restroom and I discovered that after having used the toilet on the right, it failed to flush.  I was a little embarrassed and quickly washed my hands and got back to the table.  I overheard another woman on the tour ask what was wrong with the bathrooms.  I chimed right in, saying that the toilet wouldn't flush.  The salesman said that the toilets were not automatic and that it was required to push the button to get the toilet to flush.  I also noticed that there was a housekeeping person that was carrying water in buckets into the restroom.  I went back in and successfully flushed the middle toilet.  Then I tried again, but it was out of water.  It seemed that the housekeeper was manually filling the toilets with water to make them flush!  I wonder if the sales team share their commissions with her, as she is helping them cover up there lack of plumbing.  

We went onto the tour of the model.  When I showed interest in the bidet and toilet in the model, he quickly told us that the whole building was a tear down and they didn't even hook up the water.  I asked him about the loud planes flying overhead and to my amazement, he did not say they were going to move the airport, but rather said they have special glass coming that will take care of all of the noise.  Then he told us other resorts were even closer to the airport and with more noise, so I shouldn't worry.  I also asked where was the parking.  He said that they were going to make underground parking and also storage units for ALL of the owners.  Also, there would be lots of golf carts around.  The funniest thing he said was that they were going to have a beach front restaurant, club house, jet skis and much, much more at the end of the golf course where there are very large red boulders near the bayview grand.  He asked if I played tennis and when I said I did, he said that we could play at the bayview grand.  He said, "nobody ever plays there anyway so our guests can use it."  He said all we had to do was cut through the golf course and take the 5 minute walk to the home of their future club house.

We sat down at a table facing the golf course and the swamp.  I watched the construction efforts.  There were 8 guys out there 'working'.  One was on the top level pacing.  Another was one level down, hammering one of the metal beams, one was pacing near the entrance, three were talking the rest were just moving things around.  I didn't see any building materials in use.  I told the salesman that my family was planning a reunion in April 2010 and wondering if my unit would be ready.  He said it was planned to be finished with the first building by April, so it would work out great.  I asked, "what if your construction crew doesn't finish the building by then.  He said we could stay at the Miramar and showed me a photo of it.  He said it was the Beverly Hills of PV.  Later when the salesman was out smoking cigarettes, I asked the closer the same question about the completion date of the first building.  He said the date was October 2010 (6 months later).  I asked, "how do I know you are not going to take my money and never finish this building?"  He said there was a multimillion dollar bond guaranteeing its completion.  I asked, "Where is the construction crew?"  They said they were there, they're just waiting for a shipment of iron beams and glass from Monterrey.  

The whole thing was marketed as an investment, rather than a vacation club membership.  They said that we would NEVER have to pay maintenance fees and when the resort was finished, the new members would have to pay $900 per week for the studio.  He said that in two years, they would buy our equity back at 1.75 times.  He explained it was a loan.  And that there was no way I could get that kind of return from a bank or other investment made in the US or Canada.  I asked what would I have for collateral if I "invested" $69,900 US into their tiny property. The closer couldn't give me any concrete answer.  He mentioned they were registered with ARDA then he spun out of control into a third party story about the day he solved all of his mothers financial problems by inviting her to invest and come out with 1.75 times her initial investment.

We had had enough.  By this time it was 5 hours.  I asked to look at the contract and the addendum, which was full of loop holes.  One thing I found disturbing was a clause that said if the management cited a member for breaking the rules twice, the member/investor would forfeit their membership.  When I asked the closer about this, he said it was just a way to control people because when you've made a big investment, you don't want to lose it.  At this point, we had had enough.  The price kept going down and the details were getting more and more vague.  We stood up and said, "No, thank you. This club is not for us."  They said it was OK and they would send someone to give us "whatever was promised to us."  We waited about 10 minutes and I could see several members of the sales team talking about us.  I had a bad feeling about it.  

Finally, some young guy told us he was there to take us to get our gifts.  He said he would have our gifts soon, but first he needed only 2 minutes of our time.  So, he offers us small package for $3999.  We quickly said no and he made no attempt to sell it anymore.  He told us we did not qualify for the presentation and that we could not receive our gifts.  We had been there for over 5 hours and we qualified at the beginning.  I asked to speak with a boss.  He said to stop raising my voice and to sit down.  I refused to do either and mentioned that the same guy that tried to sell us one more time, had said we did not qualify when we said NO for the last time.  There were one or two other couples that seemed to be buying in the sales room.  Nobody would talk to us, only workers stocking shampoo for the soon to open spa.  We went to the door of the sales room and three salesmen blocked us from entering.  They threatened to call security and did.  We didn't back down and demanded to speak with a supervisor and we were ignored.  So my husband went through the back way by the non-working restrooms and demanded to speak with a supervisor.  He was loud and had to be noticed by the other people that seemed interested in buying.  It wasn't even about the gift, it was about how big of a scam the Belaire is.  They eventually gave us our gift.  None of the management had the nerve to speak to us; the made the 20 year old helper boy handle it.  On the way back to our resort, the cab driver told us he knew someone that gave them $180,000 and can't get any of their money back.  I am really sorry to all of the people who were victims of this Ponzi scheme.  Something is clearly wrong with this "resort."


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Paleta said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am a guest.  I discovered your site when I did a search for the Belaire Resort in PV.  I am here on holiday and almost every promoter that talks to me is raving about a new place called the Belaire.  I have been here in PV about 5 times and had not heard of the Belaire.  They said it was not time share and it was by far the best place to stay in PV.  So, naturally, before signing up for a presentation, I did a quick internet search and found TUG.
> 
> So, I read the whole thread and by that time, I HAD to attend the presentation.  In the taxi on the way to the Belaire, the promoter told me that there were 3 couples that had been disqualified before we arrived.  They told us they only take about 5 couples a day and 3 of them had been disqualified. They assured us we would be fine and there would be no problems.  We were coached by three different promoters/employees and screened by the salesman and by the manager to make sure that I didn't have any biases about preconstruction, that our income was above $100,000/yr, and that the falling economy wouldn't prevent us from making a purchasing decision.  We passed the initial screening.
> 
> Our salesman took 50 minutes to get through the vacation survey before breakfast and then another 25 minutes waiting for our simple breakfast order.  The salesman mentioned several times that he was hungry, and when the food came, he ate very quickly.  He said, "Fair enough?" several times during breakfast.
> 
> After breakfast, I used the restroom and I discovered that after having used the toilet on the right, it failed to flush.  I was a little embarrassed and quickly washed my hands and got back to the table.  I overheard another woman on the tour ask what was wrong with the bathrooms.  I chimed right in, saying that the toilet wouldn't flush.  The salesman said that the toilets were not automatic and that it was required to push the button to get the toilet to flush.  I also noticed that there was a housekeeping person that was carrying water in buckets into the restroom.  I went back in and successfully flushed the middle toilet.  Then I tried again, but it was out of water.  It seemed that the housekeeper was manually filling the toilets with water to make them flush!  I wonder if the sales team share their commissions with her, as she is helping them cover up there lack of plumbing.
> 
> We went onto the tour of the model.  When I showed interest in the bidet and toilet in the model, he quickly told us that the whole building was a tear down and they didn't even hook up the water.  I asked him about the loud planes flying overhead and to my amazement, he did not say they were going to move the airport, but rather said they have special glass coming that will take care of all of the noise.  Then he told us other resorts were even closer to the airport and with more noise, so I shouldn't worry.  I also asked where was the parking.  He said that they were going to make underground parking and also storage units for ALL of the owners.  Also, there would be lots of golf carts around.  The funniest thing he said was that they were going to have a beach front restaurant, club house, jet skis and much, much more at the end of the golf course where there are very large red boulders near the bayview grand.  He asked if I played tennis and when I said I did, he said that we could play at the bayview grand.  He said, "nobody ever plays there anyway so our guests can use it."  He said all we had to do was cut through the golf course and take the 5 minute walk to the home of their future club house.
> 
> We sat down at a table facing the golf course and the swamp.  I watched the construction efforts.  There were 8 guys out there 'working'.  One was on the top level pacing.  Another was one level down, hammering one of the metal beams, one was pacing near the entrance, three were talking the rest were just moving things around.  I didn't see any building materials in use.  I told the salesman that my family was planning a reunion in April 2010 and wondering if my unit would be ready.  He said it was planned to be finished with the first building by April, so it would work out great.  I asked, "what if your construction crew doesn't finish the building by then.  He said we could stay at the Miramar and showed me a photo of it.  He said it was the Beverly Hills of PV.  Later when the salesman was out smoking cigarettes, I asked the closer the same question about the completion date of the first building.  He said the date was October 2010 (6 months later).  I asked, "how do I know you are not going to take my money and never finish this building?"  He said there was a multimillion dollar bond guaranteeing its completion.  I asked, "Where is the construction crew?"  They said they were there, they're just waiting for a shipment of iron beams and glass from Monterrey.
> 
> The whole thing was marketed as an investment, rather than a vacation club membership.  They said that we would NEVER have to pay maintenance fees and when the resort was finished, the new members would have to pay $900 per week for the studio.  He said that in two years, they would buy our equity back at 1.75 times.  He explained it was a loan.  And that there was no way I could get that kind of return from a bank or other investment made in the US or Canada.  I asked what would I have for collateral if I "invested" $69,900 US into their tiny property. The closer couldn't give me any concrete answer.  He mentioned they were registered with ARDA then he spun out of control into a third party story about the day he solved all of his mothers financial problems by inviting her to invest and come out with 1.75 times her initial investment.
> 
> We had had enough.  By this time it was 5 hours.  I asked to look at the contract and the addendum, which was full of loop holes.  One thing I found disturbing was a clause that said if the management cited a member for breaking the rules twice, the member/investor would forfeit their membership.  When I asked the closer about this, he said it was just a way to control people because when you've made a big investment, you don't want to lose it.  At this point, we had had enough.  The price kept going down and the details were getting more and more vague.  We stood up and said, "No, thank you. This club is not for us."  They said it was OK and they would send someone to give us "whatever was promised to us."  We waited about 10 minutes and I could see several members of the sales team talking about us.  I had a bad feeling about it.
> 
> Finally, some young guy told us he was there to take us to get our gifts.  He said he would have our gifts soon, but first he needed only 2 minutes of our time.  So, he offers us small package for $3999.  We quickly said no and he made no attempt to sell it anymore.  He told us we did not qualify for the presentation and that we could not receive our gifts.  We had been there for over 5 hours and we qualified at the beginning.  I asked to speak with a boss.  He said to stop raising my voice and to sit down.  I refused to do either and mentioned that the same guy that tried to sell us one more time, had said we did not qualify when we said NO for the last time.  There were one or two other couples that seemed to be buying in the sales room.  Nobody would talk to us, only workers stocking shampoo for the soon to open spa.  We went to the door of the sales room and three salesmen blocked us from entering.  They threatened to call security and did.  We didn't back down and demanded to speak with a supervisor and we were ignored.  So my husband went through the back way by the non-working restrooms and demanded to speak with a supervisor.  He was loud and had to be noticed by the other people that seemed interested in buying.  It wasn't even about the gift, it was about how big of a scam the Belaire is.  They eventually gave us our gift.  None of the management had the nerve to speak to us; the made the 20 year old helper boy handle it.  On the way back to our resort, the cab driver told us he knew someone that gave them $180,000 and can't get any of their money back.  I am really sorry to all of the people who were victims of this Ponzi scheme.  Something is clearly wrong with this "resort."



I asked Belaire (customer service) who was their biggest investor and they said 1,000,000 (an entire
penthouse for 6 months). Going back, there is only one floor of rooms (building being built), there others are a garage and reception area. There are over 850contracts, who is getting in................the owner. Why only three floors ?


----------



## Karen G

Paleta said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am a guest.  I discovered your site when I did a search for the Belaire Resort in PV.


Paleta, thanks so much for your report.  I do hope others will read it before Belaire gets hold of them.


----------



## humuhumu nukunukuapua'a

*Most helpful post about Belaire EVER*

Paleta deserves a huge thanks of Credit for posting about their timeshare presentation at the Belaire.  The accuracy of all facets of the presentation is uncanny, as compared to the same experienced we had when we visited one year ago...right down to the claim of other visitors supposedly having been turned away at the start.

This particular post (#606)  should somehow be bookmarked or highlighted at the very start of this discussion, so that every prospective visitor knows exactly how bad, dishonest, and worthless all their claims are.

If Paleta's post doesn't discourage readers from even taking the presentation tour, nothing will help those people!

Great Job Paleta!


----------



## pianodinosaur

Paleta said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am a guest.  I discovered your site when I did a search for the Belaire Resort in PV.  I am here on holiday and almost every promoter that talks to me is raving about a new place called the Belaire.  I have been here in PV about 5 times and had not heard of the Belaire.  They said it was not time share and it was by far the best place to stay in PV.  So, naturally, before signing up for a presentation, I did a quick internet search and found TUG.
> 
> So, I read the whole thread and by that time, I HAD to attend the presentation.  In the taxi on the way to the Belaire, the promoter told me that there were 3 couples that had been disqualified before we arrived.  They told us they only take about 5 couples a day and 3 of them had been disqualified. They assured us we would be fine and there would be no problems.  We were coached by three different promoters/employees and screened by the salesman and by the manager to make sure that I didn't have any biases about preconstruction, that our income was above $100,000/yr, and that the falling economy wouldn't prevent us from making a purchasing decision.  We passed the initial screening.
> 
> Our salesman took 50 minutes to get through the vacation survey before breakfast and then another 25 minutes waiting for our simple breakfast order.  The salesman mentioned several times that he was hungry, and when the food came, he ate very quickly.  He said, "Fair enough?" several times during breakfast.
> 
> After breakfast, I used the restroom and I discovered that after having used the toilet on the right, it failed to flush.  I was a little embarrassed and quickly washed my hands and got back to the table.  I overheard another woman on the tour ask what was wrong with the bathrooms.  I chimed right in, saying that the toilet wouldn't flush.  The salesman said that the toilets were not automatic and that it was required to push the button to get the toilet to flush.  I also noticed that there was a housekeeping person that was carrying water in buckets into the restroom.  I went back in and successfully flushed the middle toilet.  Then I tried again, but it was out of water.  It seemed that the housekeeper was manually filling the toilets with water to make them flush!  I wonder if the sales team share their commissions with her, as she is helping them cover up there lack of plumbing.
> 
> We went onto the tour of the model.  When I showed interest in the bidet and toilet in the model, he quickly told us that the whole building was a tear down and they didn't even hook up the water.  I asked him about the loud planes flying overhead and to my amazement, he did not say they were going to move the airport, but rather said they have special glass coming that will take care of all of the noise.  Then he told us other resorts were even closer to the airport and with more noise, so I shouldn't worry.  I also asked where was the parking.  He said that they were going to make underground parking and also storage units for ALL of the owners.  Also, there would be lots of golf carts around.  The funniest thing he said was that they were going to have a beach front restaurant, club house, jet skis and much, much more at the end of the golf course where there are very large red boulders near the bayview grand.  He asked if I played tennis and when I said I did, he said that we could play at the bayview grand.  He said, "nobody ever plays there anyway so our guests can use it."  He said all we had to do was cut through the golf course and take the 5 minute walk to the home of their future club house.
> 
> We sat down at a table facing the golf course and the swamp.  I watched the construction efforts.  There were 8 guys out there 'working'.  One was on the top level pacing.  Another was one level down, hammering one of the metal beams, one was pacing near the entrance, three were talking the rest were just moving things around.  I didn't see any building materials in use.  I told the salesman that my family was planning a reunion in April 2010 and wondering if my unit would be ready.  He said it was planned to be finished with the first building by April, so it would work out great.  I asked, "what if your construction crew doesn't finish the building by then.  He said we could stay at the Miramar and showed me a photo of it.  He said it was the Beverly Hills of PV.  Later when the salesman was out smoking cigarettes, I asked the closer the same question about the completion date of the first building.  He said the date was October 2010 (6 months later).  I asked, "how do I know you are not going to take my money and never finish this building?"  He said there was a multimillion dollar bond guaranteeing its completion.  I asked, "Where is the construction crew?"  They said they were there, they're just waiting for a shipment of iron beams and glass from Monterrey.
> 
> The whole thing was marketed as an investment, rather than a vacation club membership.  They said that we would NEVER have to pay maintenance fees and when the resort was finished, the new members would have to pay $900 per week for the studio.  He said that in two years, they would buy our equity back at 1.75 times.  He explained it was a loan.  And that there was no way I could get that kind of return from a bank or other investment made in the US or Canada.  I asked what would I have for collateral if I "invested" $69,900 US into their tiny property. The closer couldn't give me any concrete answer.  He mentioned they were registered with ARDA then he spun out of control into a third party story about the day he solved all of his mothers financial problems by inviting her to invest and come out with 1.75 times her initial investment.
> 
> We had had enough.  By this time it was 5 hours.  I asked to look at the contract and the addendum, which was full of loop holes.  One thing I found disturbing was a clause that said if the management cited a member for breaking the rules twice, the member/investor would forfeit their membership.  When I asked the closer about this, he said it was just a way to control people because when you've made a big investment, you don't want to lose it.  At this point, we had had enough.  The price kept going down and the details were getting more and more vague.  We stood up and said, "No, thank you. This club is not for us."  They said it was OK and they would send someone to give us "whatever was promised to us."  We waited about 10 minutes and I could see several members of the sales team talking about us.  I had a bad feeling about it.
> 
> Finally, some young guy told us he was there to take us to get our gifts.  He said he would have our gifts soon, but first he needed only 2 minutes of our time.  So, he offers us small package for $3999.  We quickly said no and he made no attempt to sell it anymore.  He told us we did not qualify for the presentation and that we could not receive our gifts.  We had been there for over 5 hours and we qualified at the beginning.  I asked to speak with a boss.  He said to stop raising my voice and to sit down.  I refused to do either and mentioned that the same guy that tried to sell us one more time, had said we did not qualify when we said NO for the last time.  There were one or two other couples that seemed to be buying in the sales room.  Nobody would talk to us, only workers stocking shampoo for the soon to open spa.  We went to the door of the sales room and three salesmen blocked us from entering.  They threatened to call security and did.  We didn't back down and demanded to speak with a supervisor and we were ignored.  So my husband went through the back way by the non-working restrooms and demanded to speak with a supervisor.  He was loud and had to be noticed by the other people that seemed interested in buying.  It wasn't even about the gift, it was about how big of a scam the Belaire is.  They eventually gave us our gift.  None of the management had the nerve to speak to us; the made the 20 year old helper boy handle it.  On the way back to our resort, the cab driver told us he knew someone that gave them $180,000 and can't get any of their money back.  I am really sorry to all of the people who were victims of this Ponzi scheme.  Something is clearly wrong with this "resort."



Paleta:

You are fantastic.  Welcome to TUGBBS.


----------



## brucecz

It is nice that the people who are now posting about the Belaire tactics are not being personally attached.

If you go back to the first of these 3 Belaire strings please note that the first of us long time Tuggers were personally attacked by people who were most likely Belaire minions and stooges for us trying to warn people of the Belaires apparent scam tactics. 

Note on these first strings the many first time posters who in some way supported the many bogus claims that the Belaire was making at that time.

Here is that first string started back on July29,2007.http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52034

This is a link to the second Belaire String started on Nov 17, 2007
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=465766#post465766

They got the first two strings shut down to try and stop the thruth being told about them by the moderators saw through their desperate tactics and let this thrid string be started. ( Moderators, is this the longest single string ever on Tug?) 

I am not in any way pointing a finger at those poor people that were hoodwinked into buying and wanted some positive posts for reassurance  and took issue with those of us that posted about the glaring lies that the Belaire had feed  them.
I feel sorry for the heart aches and monetary loss that they have suffered.

Of all of the many important building deadlines IMHO the Belaire supporters  had promised over nearly 3 years, none IMHO  have been meet. We were told by Marcos that it would be done for use in September for our Anniversery.

The Belaire has not had the airport moved to the south side of PV as one Belaire sales person claimed in regards to the airplane noise at the Belaire due to its closeness to the Belaire.

The buyers have not gotten that 175% return on their money with in 2 years of purchasing as promised by the Belaire. Of course the Belaire has been making that same promise for about 3 years.

After almost 3 years with little building progress at a building rate that would take at least 30 or more years to build even one of the promised units some of the things posted by other and me on these strings have been proven true.

I rescinded with in 5 days for three main  reasons. One was when I went back and got a addendum to the contract and saw how they could legally screw owners if the disbanded the Club.  The second thing was when I found out from a friend of Marco's that he had been a Sales trainer for the Mayan Group.  The third was the level of service promised.  

I do wonder how many millions of dollars have been lost by people who "invested in the Belaire" that was converted into only sales commissions, etc?

Bruce


----------



## Karen G

brucecz said:


> Moderators, is this the longest single string ever on Tug?


 No, this string is up to only 25 pages now with 612 posts. The Picture of the Day thread on the Lounge is up to 87 pages with 2151 posts!


----------



## Karen G

humuhumu nukunukuapua'a said:


> This particular post (#606)  should somehow be bookmarked or highlighted at the very start of this discussion, so that every prospective visitor knows exactly how bad, dishonest, and worthless all their claims are.


I think that's a worthy suggestion so I have added a note to the first post in this thread pointing people who have just found it to post #606.


----------



## brucecz

Karen G said:


> No, this string is up to only 25 pages now with 612 posts. The Picture of the Day thread on the Lounge is up to 87 pages with 2151 posts!



Thanks. Let me repraise my question.  
Is there any one string about any single resort that is longer than this one?

Bruce


----------



## Karen G

brucecz said:


> Is there any one string about any single resort that is longer than this one?


I can't recall any longer string than this one that pertained to a single resort.  But, if there is one, I'm sure someone will let us know!!


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

We all know what a mess the Belaire project is in but does anbody know what is the status of Miramar.  Is their any chance that they will be open in the next 60 days?  I have the feeling that this projcect is going the same way as Belaire.

Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.


----------



## missdaisy10

*Guaranteed Buy Back*

Now that more than two years have passed since our "purchase", has anyone tried to exercise the "guaranteed buyback at 75% of current offering price" clause in your contract?  I may be in PV in a couple of months and am considering trying this route to get some of my money back.  If anyone has tried this (either successfuly or unsuccessfully) I would appreciate hearing from you and what you did.


----------



## jeanbean

*Belaire 75% Guarantee*

If this approach works for you, please publicize it for the rest of us that have gotten scammed. They have lived high and "partied harty" on our money. The only people that will experience the yachts and all of the amenities we were shown and promised is Anthony and his group.


----------



## axiom8888

Hello everyone Brand new member to this forum.

My wife and I just purchased at bel-air PV last month august 2009, I sure wish we had seen this thread before we did. I anm now extremly nervous concerning this purchase. We only invested 5k so far, but we also traded in two of our time shares. 

I am not sure what to do at this point we are over our 5 day grace period, and we were promised much of the same stuff that everyone else was promised. Airport rides, no maintence fees, 1.75% buy back, we sold weeks and they are supposed to send us checks to cover some of our buy in price,,,etc....I wouldnt even know how to get our other time shares back....

They told us that belair would be up and running by 2012, we toured through miramar, and at least that resort seemed to be almost done and open.

We took pictures of the construction, and I will try to post them later today when I get home. But there seems to be a three level structure there but not enclosed. So from what I can see is that there is progression, but very slow progress.

oh well, so has any one been able to use the luxury resorts travel agency?

josh


----------



## aliikai2

*I hate to be the one ..*

to tell you,
But other than possibly their names ( even some of those are aliases) almost nothing they told you is true. 

If you read the 3 threads 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52034&highlight=belaire

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61301&highlight=belaire

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68338&highlight=belaire

That preceded this one , you will find that the basic lie remains the same, smoke and mirrors are used to convince you to give up cash and your existing weeks, they have never kept a single promise, they continue to find suckers (Clients) to buy this dream, they are great salespeople, they sell the concept and the sizzle, yet the steak never gets to the plate.

The structure that they have finally started has 3 floors, the plans are for the bottom floor to be parking, the 1st floor, to be retail shops, that leaves only 1 floor for units, with an estimated 800 +- owners, many who own more that 1 week per year, it unfortunately looks like there will not be adequate space for them.

I wish you the best of luck, I would suggest you file a claim with Profeco, which will be a slow and painful process, If you used a cc to pay the 5k, contact the cc company and dispute the charge, and contact your existing timeshare management companies, and let them know you have been a victim of Fraud, and not to allow any transfer of your week(s).

fwiw,
Greg





axiom8888 said:


> Hello everyone Brand new member to this forum.
> 
> My wife and I just purchased at bel-air PV last month august 2009, I sure wish we had seen this thread before we did. I anm now extremly nervous concerning this purchase. We only invested 5k so far, but we also traded in two of our time shares.
> 
> I am not sure what to do at this point we are over our 5 day grace period, and we were promised much of the same stuff that everyone else was promised. Airport rides, no maintence fees, 1.75% buy back, we sold weeks and they are supposed to send us checks to cover some of our buy in price,,,etc....I wouldnt even know how to get our other time shares back....
> 
> They told us that belair would be up and running by 2012, we toured through miramar, and at least that resort seemed to be almost done and open.
> 
> We took pictures of the construction, and I will try to post them later today when I get home. But there seems to be a three level structure there but not enclosed. So from what I can see is that there is progression, but very slow progress.
> 
> oh well, so has any one been able to use the luxury resorts travel agency?
> 
> josh


----------



## Karen G

axiom8888 said:


> I wouldnt even know how to get our other time shares back....


More than likely you still own them, and you're still responsible for the maintenance fees on them.


----------



## axiom8888

all right thanks for the advice, 

I will hit up the wife later today, and see what she wants to do, and as far as the other two time shares, we do own them as we havnt transfered them over yet, we just saw the mock checks that they applied to our purchase price. 

so more than likely we will contact profeco, and our cc company, and our current time shares.

Man what a shame, I know that 5k doesnt seem like much to some that have invested so much more but money is all relative, and that was 5k we didnt have.

damnit anyways!


----------



## aliikai2

*Don't beat yourselves up*

We bought in Nov 2007, and rescinded the next morning after a sleepless night. I just couldn't figure out how it could work, and I was proven right as here we are 22 months later, and still no units. 

5k is a fair amount of money to anyone I know. Greg




axiom8888 said:


> all right thanks for the advice,
> 
> I will hit up the wife later today, and see what she wants to do, and as far as the other two time shares, we do own them as we havnt transfered them over yet, we just saw the mock checks that they applied to our purchase price.
> 
> so more than likely we will contact profeco, and our cc company, and our current time shares.
> 
> Man what a shame, I know that 5k doesnt seem like much to some that have invested so much more but money is all relative, and that was 5k we didnt have.
> 
> damnit anyways!


----------



## missdaisy10

*Belaire No Longer Affiliated With The Registry Collection*

Since no one has stirred this pot for a couple of weeks, I thought I would put this out there for all you disgruntled, disappointed investor-owners. 

We purchased at Belaire in June, 2007, primarily because we were promised that we would be able to trade our weeks (starting in January, 2008) on The Registry Collection.  When we realized that was not going to occur in January, 08, I contacted TRC and found out that BVC was not even affiliated with TRC but was "in the process" of applying.  I also found out that TRC never allows an under-construction resort to trade any weeks until the project is finished and they actually have real weeks to deposit.  It was at that time that we rescinded and attempted (unsuccessfully) to get our money back. Belaire eventually did get accepted into TRC as a "resort under construction".  

Because I now had a contact at TRC, I requested that they keep me updated on the progress of the Belaire project from their end.  The last report I had received from TRC was that they were expecting a Belaire completion date in September, 2009.  Yesterday, I requested an update from TRC.  Their reply is posted below, along with my response back to them.  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 10:29:35 -0400
From: inquiry@registry-collection.com
Subject: The Registry Collection, affiliation inquiry (KMM5219942I15977L0KM)

Late last week we were notified that our affiliation agreement with this property was terminated.

 Please contact Belaire Vacation Club for further details.

 I apologize for the inconvenience, please stay tuned to our website. If there are further developments, they will be posted there first.

Kind regards, *[/B]


My reply::  inquiry@registry-collection.com; 

Thank you for letting me know.  The Registry Collection should be glad that this affiliation has ended since Belaire has proven to be a great disappointment (and that is putting it mildly) to many of us who were initial investors in the project.  Many of us doubt that the project will ever be finished or was even ever intended to be completed.  Unfortunately, a project like this one brings great disfavor on all the other wonderful timeshare/interval ownership properties that are out there.  Our initial investment in the property was based on the promise that we would be able to trade weeks within The Registry Collection.  You have some beautiful properties and we are disappointed that we will not be able to avail ourselves of them.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My take is that The Registry Collection preliminary affiliation was just one more "cover" they created in an attempt to make their project more attractive to us simpletons who failed to see through their deception.  We have all been used--us and TRC.


----------



## Karen G

missdaisy10 said:


> Since no one has stirred this pot for a couple of weeks, I thought I would put this out there for all you disgruntled, disappointed investor-owners.



Thanks for the update.


----------



## pianodinosaur

missdaisy10 said:


> Since no one has stirred this pot for a couple of weeks, I thought I would put this out there for all you disgruntled, disappointed investor-owners.
> 
> We purchased at Belaire in June, 2007, primarily because we were promised that we would be able to trade our weeks (starting in January, 2008) on The Registry Collection.  When we realized that was not going to occur in January, 08, I contacted TRC and found out that BVC was not even affiliated with TRC but was "in the process" of applying.  I also found out that TRC never allows an under-construction resort to trade any weeks until the project is finished and they actually have real weeks to deposit.  It was at that time that we rescinded and attempted (unsuccessfully) to get our money back. Belaire eventually did get accepted into TRC as a "resort under construction".
> 
> Because I now had a contact at TRC, I requested that they keep me updated on the progress of the Belaire project from their end.  The last report I had received from TRC was that they were expecting a Belaire completion date in September, 2009.  Yesterday, I requested an update from TRC.  Their reply is posted below, along with my response back to them.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 10:29:35 -0400
> From: inquiry@registry-collection.com
> Subject: The Registry Collection, affiliation inquiry (KMM5219942I15977L0KM)
> 
> Late last week we were notified that our affiliation agreement with this property was terminated.
> 
> Please contact Belaire Vacation Club for further details.
> 
> I apologize for the inconvenience, please stay tuned to our website. If there are further developments, they will be posted there first.
> 
> Kind regards, *[/B]
> 
> 
> My reply::  inquiry@registry-collection.com;
> 
> Thank you for letting me know.  The Registry Collection should be glad that this affiliation has ended since Belaire has proven to be a great disappointment (and that is putting it mildly) to many of us who were initial investors in the project.  Many of us doubt that the project will ever be finished or was even ever intended to be completed.  Unfortunately, a project like this one brings great disfavor on all the other wonderful timeshare/interval ownership properties that are out there.  Our initial investment in the property was based on the promise that we would be able to trade weeks within The Registry Collection.  You have some beautiful properties and we are disappointed that we will not be able to avail ourselves of them.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> My take is that The Registry Collection preliminary affiliation was just one more "cover" they created in an attempt to make their project more attractive to us simpletons who failed to see through their deception.  We have all been used--us and TRC.[/QUOTE]
> 
> I feel very sorry for you.  Many of us who did not invest at Belaire have made other investments that did not turn out well.  In know that is very little consolation but I really do feel very sorry for you.  The scam artists are everywhere and it is very easy to become victimized.  So, don't shoot yourself and try to move on.


----------



## Scuba2

missdaisy10 said:


> Now that more than two years have passed since our "purchase", has anyone tried to exercise the "guaranteed buyback at 75% of current offering price" clause in your contract?  I may be in PV in a couple of months and am considering trying this route to get some of my money back.  If anyone has tried this (either successfuly or unsuccessfully) I would appreciate hearing from you and what you did.



I just got back from PV on yesterday.  I went to the Belaire to inquire about the buyback program.  Antonio and Nick were both out of town.  I was told that the buyback program has been put "on hold" for now.  I explained that Antonio had put in writing when we would be able to sell and stipulated the price we would receive because we were dubious about verbal promises.  We should have questioned the written ones, too!


----------



## Scuba2

I just got back from a week in PV.  My objective observations:  Supports had been placed under the floor of the second level.  Cement was being poured on the floor.  I was told the cement would be about 2 inches thick.  Large rolls of meshed rebar were being hauled to the next level to prepare for a layer of cement there, also.  Today, I see on the cameras that the supports are being moved up a level to shore up the next floor while cement is poured.  I was told that each floor would have the layer of cement.  I was also told that the steel for the next 3 floors would be delivered next week.


----------



## JoeG9100

*Belaire rescinded, Finally*

I Just wanted to thank the members here for all the help they gave us last year. We purchased last June 2008 and had buyers remorse when we got home. I stumbled  on to TUG and found out it could be a scam. 
I want to thank KarenG and Brucecz for the instructions on how to rescind. I finally Got the Letter from Belaire after Proteco forced them to send it, they were also fined for not showing up to the court date. It was tricky because after the court date Profeco aksed us to contact them by May of this year if we did not case closed. Belaire would be off the hook.  We did not get a letter from belaire but I put the date on my calendar and sent an Email to Profeco within a few weeks we had the letter from Belaire.

I just had another close call. A marketing company called, and said they had a buyer for our Vegas timeshare 21,000 + 4000 for out 2 weeks of RCI. As you can imagine alarm bells were ringing in my head as he was talking said he was a finance manager. Well they wanted us to sing a contract for them to act as our agent in the sale. Then after the pitch,  came the catch they wanted $1850 as a deposit we would get it back in 30 days after the sale. I don't give money up front for timeshare sales been there before. Then at this point I ended the conversation. They were from Carefree Vacation Solutions definitely a scam.  

Good luck to all of you!

Joe


----------



## brucecz

Joe, thanks, gald I may have been of some slight help but Karen has done a great job on this string..  Your posting makes the abuse thrown at me by the many Belaire shills over a years time well worth it if I in some small way helped you from getting ripped off.

I feel sorry for those poor souls that had not cancelled and were mad at me for posting what I knew first hand about the Belaire.  I am gald that the Belaire  seemingly changed their contacts when I kept after them  on one sided that portion of the contract was.

I got flak after they cryed and said I was badgering them so obscure the  thruthfull fact how one sided that portion of the contract was to the buyers and basically took all legal protections away from the buyers.

If my posting about that fact just saved  just one party from  buying, again I feel it was worth the flak I got for posting that thruthfull fact. 

The Belaire shills and minions got the first couple of strings shut down which was part of their agenda but Karen did not allow that to happen on this string. Great job Karen.


Bruce


----------



## Karen G

Thanks, Bruce & Joe, for your kind comments.  Joe, I'm so glad you were able to get help from Profeco.  It's nice to know that they are getting results.

Also glad to hear that you didn't fall for another scam on your Las Vegas timeshare, Joe.  I love it when TUG helps someone else avoid being ripped off.


----------



## footballmom

*I need help quickly*

 I haven'y been following for a while . . .
I was trying to fight this scam through my credit card company.  I disputed the charges, but Belaire sent a rebuttal.
I need help trying to rescind this deal and prove to the credit card company that it is definitely a scam.
JoeG9100:  How did you get to Profeco?  I have tried, but get the run-around, or get a Spanish-speaking (or writing) person.  What do I need to do to file with Profeco?  I have a letter composed, but I don't know where to send it or who to adress it to.  Can someone help me out?
Thanks for all of the great information out here - I hope it saves others from some grief!


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

Does anbody have any information or visited the Miramar Projcet?  Are they open or will they ever open?  I think that this projcet may go the same way as Belaire.
Thanks in advance for your help in this matter.


----------



## acaseyc

*Belaire issues and warnings*

I am no novice to timeshare presentations. Not only have I been to a dozen or more presentations/member updates--some we bought into and some we didn't--I have 18 years in Title Insurance and Escrow, 8 years as CAlif Real Estate Broker, 6 years as Corporate Real Estate Rep, BSc in Accounting and Bsc in Real Estate, so I know pretty well when I hear a Half-truth, evasion or outright lie.  Last month in PV (October 09) a friend of ours explained how she had traded in 4 weeks of timeshares and $8,000 for a fabulous deal at Belaire, which she described as a Ultra-Luxurious Yacht and Gold Resort, that included a guaranteed $130,000 buy-out in 3 years without any maintenance fees.  I warned her that it sounded pretty fishy to me, but she was completely satisfied, explaining that she couldn't quite stay there yet 'cause they had to put 185' pilings down and it had delayed construction for a couple of years.
MORE TO FOLLOW--I have to pickup grandkids from school


----------



## Karen G

acaseyc said:


> MORE TO FOLLOW--I have to pickup grandkids from school


We look forward to the rest of your story.  I'm really hoping you didn't fall victim to Belaire, too.


----------



## jeanbean

*BelAire*

More victims, when will it ever end?


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Miramar*

Is there an update to this ?


----------



## acaseyc

*Belaire warnings*

I am no novice to timeshare presentations--we own at: Villa del Mar, Villa del Palmar, Mayan Sea Garden, Velas Vallarta, Kona Coast II, Cliffs Club and are members of Shell Vacation Club. Not only have I been to a dozen or more presentations/member updates--some we bought into and some we didn't.  I have 18 years in Title Insurance and Escrow, 8 years as CAlif Real Estate Broker, 6 years as Corporate Real Estate Rep, BSc in Accounting and Bsc in Real Estate, so I know pretty well when I hear a Half-truth, evasion or outright lie.  Last month in PV (October 09) a friend of ours explained how she had traded in 4 weeks of timeshares and $8,000 for a fabulous deal at Belaire, which she described as a Ultra-Luxurious Yacht and Golf Resort, that included a guaranteed $130,000 buy-out in 3 years without any maintenance fees.  I warned her that it sounded pretty fishy to me, but she was completely satisfied, explaining that she couldn't quite stay there yet 'cause they had to put 185' pilings down and it had delayed construction for a couple of years.  Sorry to repeat, but I couldn't figure out how to edit the original post.
-----------------------------------------------------
When we were approached by a street rep about attending a "90 minute" presentation I couldn't resist the opportunity to hear first hand what had convinced our friend to buy.  It was easy to understand how they get so many people to sign-on to this project: Extra large and luxurious units, tennis club, yacht club, beach club, and golf--all with out any maintenance fees, a guaranteed ROI, $4,000 per year of cash and credits for assigning 2 weeks to them for marketing.  WHAT A DEAL.., well, until you give it a little critical thinking.

*Construction:* Apparently construction finally got underway in June of '08 delayed 'cause they had tp put in pilings 185' deep(??), foundation and steel in Nov and Dec '08. We were told in October that Concrete had been poured just last week, but that was when Hurricane Ric had landed as a Tropical Storm with high winds and driving rain--when we viewed the structure it was still surrounded with a virtual moat.  I guess they could have needed 185' pilings, I'm no engineer, but I do know that the pilings for the Oakland San Francisco Bay Bridge are about 70 to 85 feet. We were told the reason there were no workmen on-site was that they were all over at a sister resort (Grand Marina Residence Club & Business Center) doing finish work and installing light fixtures, getting ready for opening November 15.  I guess they could use Steel Workers and Concrete Finishers to do finish carpentry and screw in light bulbs--or use carpenters and electricians to do Steel work and finish concrete. As of today, November 17, their on-site cameras don't show any further progress. We were also told that there was a Bond guaranteeing construction. I could be wrong, but I think it doubtful that any bonding company in their right mind would provide a Bond unless there was verifiable construction financing, and would normally require a substantial portion of purchase monies to be escrowed and not used for construction. I think it is worth noting that it would be a horrendous cost to keep a Construction Loan and Completion Bond in place year after year without major construction progress.


*Model Units*: I'm guessing these units have been there since '07. Two excuses were offered while we were viewing the Studio unit: First, the entry doors used clear glass and the adjacent unit used frosted glass 'cause they couldn't decide on which to use and the extra bathroom did not have a door because they hadn't yet decided what kind of door to use.  The roof of the sales office where we were taken to view the distant beach and the adjacent Tennis Club was shameful, for a luxury display, with peeling paint and corroded metal railings..I would guess the postponed maintenance and lack of final finishing details was from lack of budget resources. Seems to me that a model for a ultra-luxurious project should show a little more care about details--especially after 2 years.

*Amenities*:  Included without extra fees, was access to the adjacent tennis club, golf-cart access to a future beach club, access to a yachts at Marina Vallarta, and membership in the Puerto Vallarta Fluvial (services not yet defined). The only problem I see here, is that the Belaire Developer has no control over these off-site amenities which could fail and leave thir owners without those services. The Golf Course 50% discount is available to virtually all of the Nuevo Vallarta Resorts and probably would continue to available.

*Buisness Model*: The first Half of buyers pay no maintenance fees--ever. Second half is to pay roughly $450 per week for a studio.  Developer to pay owner $2000 for 1 week to use for Corporate Golf Junkets, which is a very successful program in their sister resort--Grand Marina Residence Club--wait a minute didn't they just tell us it was to open November 15?  The developer would also use a second week for this promotion in return for $2000 gift cards and credits to purchase airline tickets, rent cars, buy meals--virtual cash for anything.  The other two weeks we could use for ourselves or exchange in II, RCI, Trading Places, the Registry Collection or any of the 60 other Residence Clubs in PV. Now, say they get a 50% discount on the gift cards, they are to payout $3,000 per year to half of the owners who will never pay maintenance fees. Hope their Golf Junkets a wildly successful.

*The Deal*: A Studio Unit, four weeks per year, for 100 years.  I think it started at about $75,000--Less $28,000 for a time-share trade in which they would donate to Make-a-wish, so they could exchange for Disneyland area weeks to send kids to.  They also reduced the price by $8,000 cause we could not use the unit in 2010, since *it would not be completed until 2011*. Yeah, that's at least 4 years since sales started. They also offered a guaranteed ROI--Return of Investment.  When I asked how they could make this guarantee, it was explained that: first, the units will of course be worth more when built, than now--secondly, they have first right of refusal, so these units will never be on the after-market.  Yes, I agree the will be worth more (if ever built) but as to the first right of refusal, here's how that works: If you have a valid offer from someone to purchase your unit, the developer has the right to buy it for that amount.  How easy do you think it will be to get a valid offer when it would be common knowlege that the Developer would buy it instead...basically, the developer could end up setting his own price. Well, we turned down the final price of around $39,000 offering my opinion that the basic business plan was unrealistic and there seemed to be an unexplainably long delay in construction. We had to go through the normal routine of three more levels of sales pitches, ending with a final offer of $3,500 ( after trade-in) for 4 weeks a year for 25 years with around $1,600 per year maintenance fees. It seems to me they were desparate to make a sale--any sale.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS PROJECT IS BEING FUNDED SOLELY FROM SALES REVENUES, AND THE BASIC BUSINESS PLAN IS UNREALISTIC. I WILL BE AMAZED IF IT EVER GETS BUILT.  

gecase@earthlink.net


----------



## Karen G

acaseyc said:


> IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS PROJECT IS BEING FUNDED SOLELY FROM SALES REVENUES, AND THE BASIC BUSINESS PLAN IS UNREALISTIC. I WILL BE AMAZED IF IT EVER GETS BUILT.


I'm so happy that you did not succumb to their sales pressure. Thanks for reporting back.


----------



## wesleychicago

*new belaire owner*

hi everyone just joined Belaire and i have booked my next vacation 3 days after i bought i paid in full and they started my ownership the same week, the units are beautiful tower one will be done by may can not wait.
  When we got back to the states i did see all these complaints but i have no reason for worry i have a legal contract and like people have been saying in this chat room i was on there land and in there office,after all tourism is number 1 in mexico of this was not to be finished the mexicain government would not let that be see you all soon .


----------



## pianodinosaur

*Potential Shill Alert*



wesleychicago said:


> hi everyone just joined Belaire and i have booked my next vacation 3 days after i bought i paid in full and they started my ownership the same week, the units are beautiful tower one will be done by may can not wait.
> When we got back to the states i did see all these complaints but i have no reason for worry i have a legal contract and like people have been saying in this chat room i was on there land and in there office,after all tourism is number 1 in mexico of this was not to be finished the mexicain government would not let that be see you all soon .



Congratulations.  Yours is the first post I have seen with a positive experience at Belaire in quite a while.  There have been many other posts with recent photographs of the Belaire property that reveal very little if any progress.  Are you referring to the same property as everyone else on this thread or do you have some kind of special relationship with Belaire?


----------



## Blondie

Wesleychicago is a first time poster touting the wonderful resort that is Belaire.  Wow- we haven't seen that on this thread for a little while... It would appear he has misread the past two years of postings right here under his nose. Oh well, hundreds of people are wrong and he is right. And the Mexico government would never let this happen...got that everyone?


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

January 14, 2010. I have been watching the web cam on the Belaire web site and it looks like some serious iron is going up on the project.  Anybody have any idea on what is going on down there?


----------



## Scuba2

That represents the next 3 floors.


----------



## judy23

We are here in PV and went by the Belaire today. There is some serious building going on and more steel was being put up today as we went by. As the previous post said it is the next 3 floors. The structure is very large and the web cam doesnot do it justice. We will be here a total of 6 weeks and we will post any other signifacant progress.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

judy23 said:


> We are here in PV and went by the Belaire today. There is some serious building going on and more steel was being put up today as we went by. As the previous post said it is the next 3 floors. The structure is very large and the web cam doesnot do it justice. We will be here a total of 6 weeks and we will post any other signifacant progress.



Huh, were are the electrican pulling in power, water pipes or stairs (emgencies). How do they get to work on the upper levels ? Where is everyone. This will be another 2 years worth of work of getting nowwhere. Remember, rainy season is comming. 

Is this year 3 or 4. Where is lagunamar ?


----------



## Scuba2

Judy -

Since you are in PV I was wondering if you could describe the backside of the Belaire we can't see from the cameras.  Do the windows on the first floor go all the way around the backside?  How much of the parking level now has cement walls?  When I was there in Sept only about 1/2 the side next to the golf course was walled.  Thanks


----------



## judy23

scuba2,
All four walls are glassed in. We will take pictures when we go back and private message you with the pics.The web cam doesnot do the size justice as it is huge. The steel is being placed as we speak for the rest of the floors
(9). We did meet with Laura Pena the customer svc rep and she was very informative.There are many projects we have observed in the last week that are at a stand still. Ocean Terrace which is a private ownership in Nuervo has one completed bldg plus a second bldg 1/2 sold with no activity at all. Just a shell.The recession is very evident here and there are many started projects that are just sitting. Judy


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire Wesite Update*

The resort consists of two - nine story towers. We are currently targeting completion of the first tower to be in the mid-2010 timeframe. We plan to begin fully operating the resort at that time as our administrative offices, the restaurant and other key services will all be housed in that tower. Construction of the second tower will proceed immediately thereafter

Notice: Mid 2010 open as admin offices (questionable). What happened to we could use the resort ? I bought in Dec. 2006 and only see a steel frame of three floors, over 3 years have gone by.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort*

Went over to the Belaire today and talked to the man who handles the inventory.  You may take this information with a grain of salt.  He told my wife and I that on May 1 the Belaire is going to shift from a developer license to a commerical license.  This would mean that the buyback option in contracts would come into play.  He also indicated that their would be a small Casino on the second floor.  The area where the sales office is now would be torn down and the second tower built in that area.

Please dont get your hopes up because we have all been disappointed with Belaire promises in the past. I hope this is true and only time will tell.

Henry


----------



## kingdon

*update*

Just got back feb 24th went to Belaire twice no one was working, couldn't find anyone to talk to except the Guard at the gate.
the building has Glass all the way around the first floor,nothing being done.
have picture but unclear how to post.


----------



## Archie583

If anybody wants to talk to somebody at Belaire it is best to call and make an appointment. Not a lot of management people around during the day.

Henry


----------



## acaseyc

*Gone Fishing ???*

Well, the Belaire website showed a banner indicating the first tower was SOLD OUT.  Some fill around the base, glass, three more floors of steel frame. No elevator shaft, the rest of the 9 storey tower not done--then nothing for a couple of weeks.  The webcam now looks like a steady picture.  Maybe they just took a vacation.:zzz:


----------



## judy23

The customer service dept says they are working inside. Don't know what to believe.


----------



## Karen G

The Belaire has got to be one of the slowest construction projects on record. The Empire State Bldg. was built in 1930 in one year and 45 days.  How long have they been working on the Belaire??


----------



## taffy19

We drove by the resort and asked if we could see it and a person showed it to us.  He told us that he was the Concierge but I knew better.    I took this picture from upstairs.






It could have been better but the sun was so bright that I had a hard time seeing what I was taking but all the stories are there.      We also took pictures inside as we know someone who has bought here.  The model is very nice.  Antonio said that the tower will be open before the end of the year.  I believe that he said November.  I don't see that happen.

There was no crew working outside or we didn't see them while it was the middle of the day and the sales people were through already with touring too.  If you want to see it, you better make an appointment.

I wanted to see the Castle and Condos project too which has a new sign now.  It is called the Mondavi and we saw people there but could not see it.  That building looks very nice and the view from there is spectacular.  It is close to the Ocho Cascadas as we went by there too.  They have a for sale sign on their property.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire*

January 23, 2010.  The crane is working today and they are putting up more steel.  The work site has been idle for weeks but today they have begun putting up more steel. Check out the web site and use camera 2.


----------



## PamF

where are the elevator shafts for this building


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## T_R_Oglodyte

PamF said:


> where are the elevator shafts for this building


I suspect that the last thing many owners want from BelAir is more shafts. :ignore:


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## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire*

As you can see, not much has gone on for awhile. Where are the emerrgency exit steps ? What about Maramar  ?


----------



## hobyhaus

I have much to say about this place.  Rather than rewrite the message again I posted what I learned on Redweek.com and you can access it there.  We did meet one couple that Antonio put them up in the resort next door and gave them everything, they said, that he promised.  They stayed 13 weeks and she told me it was all covered.  They had not left so I am not sure if the whole thing she told me was true.  I see that construction started again and stopped again.  I wonder which November Antonio is referring to when he says that it will be finished in November.  I loved the newsletter.  It shows beautiful young dancing ladies doing their thing.  What does that have to do with the construction of Belaire.  They whole situation is sad.  We are sorry we ever got involved and hope others can get out without being hurt too much with their wallet.


----------



## Archie583

I have been in Puerto Vallarta since January 23 and I am going home on May 1 2010.  Progress has been very slow and many times no work is being done at all.
If tower 1 is to be done in November as they say I will be the most surprised person in the world.
The rainy season will be upon us in a few months and that can only slow work so I have little hope that the work will be completed.
This whole project is a very sad situation.


----------



## gbc1232001

*Belaire Vacation Club -- Transfer Fees*

I "traded in" Grupo Mayan and Diamond Resorts timeshares to purchase at Belaire and was originally told by the sales manager, Richard, that Belaire would pay for the transfer fees to change the ownership from my name to theirs.  Now, several months later, their Loan Verification Officer, Laura, has advised me that I need to pay the transfer fees of $1750 and $525.

Please advise whether Belaire or you paid for your transfer fees.

Thank you.


----------



## california-bighorn

*Don't pay*



gbc1232001 said:


> I "traded in" Grupo Mayan and Diamond Resorts timeshares to purchase at Belaire and was originally told by the sales manager, Richard, that Belaire would pay for the transfer fees to change the ownership from my name to theirs.  Now, several months later, their Loan Verification Officer, Laura, has advised me that I need to pay the transfer fees of $1750 and $525.
> 
> Please advise whether Belaire or you paid for your transfer fees.
> 
> Thank you.



What does the contract say in writing?   Anyway, from what I've read about this place and what I saw while in PV, if it were me, I'd not pay the transfer fees and keep my other two weeks.  Contact Mayan and Diamond to see if Belair even attempted to transfer the resorts out of your name. With everything going on at Belair, I don't think they would have much of a legal argument about anything.  Just my opinion....


----------



## pianodinosaur

gbc1232001 said:


> I "traded in" Grupo Mayan and Diamond Resorts timeshares to purchase at Belaire and was originally told by the sales manager, Richard, that Belaire would pay for the transfer fees to change the ownership from my name to theirs.  Now, several months later, their Loan Verification Officer, Laura, has advised me that I need to pay the transfer fees of $1750 and $525.
> 
> Please advise whether Belaire or you paid for your transfer fees.
> 
> Thank you.



  Grupo Mayan and Diamond Resorts are well established entities with numerous fine resorts.  I think you may have been swindled by Belaire.


----------



## flexible

hobyhaus said:


> I have much to say about this place.  Rather than rewrite the message again I posted what I learned on Redweek.com and you can access it there.



HI Hobyhaus, 
Can you please post the URL web link to the page on Redweek.com? I searched for your post there but could not find it.

Thanks


----------



## aliikai2

*I think it is this one*

http://www.redweek.com/forums/messages?thread_id=13197

Greg



flexible said:


> HI Hobyhaus,
> Can you please post the URL web link to the page on Redweek.com? I searched for your post there but could not find it.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Javier Ivan

*PICS*

HI EVERYONE, MY NAME IS JAVIER MACHAIN I AM A NEWS REPORTER, I WORK IN VALLARTAOPINA NEWSPAPER (www.vallartaopina.net) OR (www.vallartatoday.com).

I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM IN THE WEB, AND I HAVE REALIZED THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT THIS.

I WANT TO HELP YOU, SOMEBODY TOLD ME THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A MEETING IN A HOTEL CALLED "CASA CORAZON" ON MAY 20.

DOES SOMEONE HERE IS AWARE OF THAT MEETING? I WANNA KNOW MORE DETAILS. IF SOMEONE KNOW SOMETHING PLEASE TELL ME.

I WILL BE IN TOUCH IN A FEW DAYS AGAIN, IF ANYONE WANT TO MAIL ME SOMETHING, DO IT, I'LL BE AT YOUR SERVICE AT: javiermachain@gmail.com

I AM COLLECTING SOME TESTIMONIALS TO BE PUBLISHED. CONTACT ME FOR SOME QUESTIONS. 

AND FOR THOSE WHO HASN'T BEEN IN VALLARTA FOR A WHILE, YESTERDAY I TOOK SOME PICS OF THE BUILDING, , HERE I LEFT THIS. JUST GO IN THE LINK BELOW

pictures of the building taken on wednesday may 12 2010


----------



## taffy19

I was trying to link to your post and put it here but there was no way to link that post from RedWeek. I am glad you found us here and posted updated pictures.  

We do not own at this resort but went to see it a few months ago and I posted some pictures (post #656) too. It doesn't look like much has been done since then.

We did a tour at the Grand Mayan and I mentioned this resort. The salesman told us something that I didn't know so may be you can find this out at the meeting. If this is true then people don't need to worry so much about getting their money back.

I asked a real estate person recently if this is true and he told me that this is common practice in Mexico. Before a timeshare or any other developer can get any permits to build a resort or project, they have to place a bond for the amount to construct the whole project. In other words, the money is there right from the start. This is in case they do not finish the project or run away with the money. This should be good news for anyone who bought there unless the developer sold more contracts then there is time for but I doubt that.

If I were a buyer here, I would contact Profeco and ask for the money back because it isn't going to be ready this year either unless they have miracle workers starting to complete the project. The model unit looks nice but it so close to the airport and not even in close walking distance of the beach or the shops and restaurants in the marina. It doesn't have a resort feeling to me but it is far from finished yet.

I remember them showing us many extra perks that come with the purchase but will it always be free as long as the contract is good for? The other companies can go out of business and what will replace the same perks free of charge after that? A lot of timeshare resorts offer perks but not many are completely free unless you pay a lot of money for the contract. I really don't know much detail about the prices or what came with the contract because we didn't take a tour.

Can you find out if a bond was placed and that people are protected and will get their money back in case the project doesn't get completed or the developer runs away with the money. I hope that the buyers are protected but I would try to be one of the first ones on the list to get all the money back. You can always buy again when the resort is completed but there are so many other options too.

There is also the American Consulate in the Paradise Village Mall where you can ask what to do and their web page has some good referral links.  They have been helpful to us in the past but their hours are short.


----------



## brucecz

Gregs link worked for us.

Bruce 



iconnections said:


> I was trying to link to your post and put it here but there was no way to link that post from RedWeek. I am glad you found us here and posted updated pictures.
> 
> We do not own at this resort but went to see it a few months ago and I posted some pictures (post #656) too. It doesn't look like much has been done since then.
> 
> We did a tour at the Grand Mayan and I mentioned this resort. The salesman told us something that I didn't know so may be you can find this out at the meeting. If this is true then people don't need to worry so much about getting their money back.
> 
> I asked a real estate person recently if this is true and he told me that this is common practice in Mexico. Before a timeshare or any other developer can get any permits to build a resort or project, they have to place a bond for the amount to construct the whole project. In other words, the money is there right from the start. This is in case they do not finish the project or run away with the money. This should be good news for anyone who bought there unless the developer sold more contracts then there is time for but I doubt that.
> 
> If I were a buyer here, I would contact Profeco and ask for the money back because it isn't going to be ready this year either unless they have miracle workers starting to complete the project. The model unit looks nice but it so close to the airport and not even in close walking distance of the beach or the shops and restaurants in the marina. It doesn't have a resort feeling to me but it is far from finished yet.
> 
> I remember them showing us many extra perks that come with the purchase but will it always be free as long as the contract is good for? The other companies can go out of business and what will replace the same perks free of charge after that? A lot of timeshare resorts offer perks but not many are completely free unless you pay a lot of money for the contract. I really don't know much detail about the prices or what came with the contract because we didn't take a tour.
> 
> Can you find out if a bond was placed and that people are protected and will get their money back in case the project doesn't get completed or the developer runs away with the money. I hope that the buyers are protected but I would try to be one of the first ones on the list to get all the money back. You can always buy again when the resort is completed but there are so many other options too.
> 
> There is also the American Consulate in the Paradise Village Mall where you can ask what to do and their web page has some good referral links.  They have been helpful to us in the past but their hours are short.


----------



## taffy19

Bruce, I was trying to link to the message that hobihaus had posted but couldn't find it. I found Javier's post instead and wanted to bring it over here with a link but didn't know how to link a single post. I find their forum format very cumbersome to read so do not bother.

Javier came to this forum by himself and also showed new pictures. The more we can find out through each other the better it is for everyone, who bought there, and is wondering what is going on since we live so far away.

I hope that he will keep us up to date of the meeting he mentioned in his post that will take place on May 20.


----------



## Javier Ivan

I have asked for some inf. at the hotel, an employee told me that they still don't know about this meeting, they were going to investigate. So, I'll be waiting for some news in the next few days.


----------



## hobyhaus

*red week info*



flexible said:


> HI Hobyhaus,
> Can you please post the URL web link to the page on Redweek.com? I searched for your post there but could not find it.
> 
> Thanks


Sorry, but when it comes to computers I need serious help.  My notes are under wallace J.  March 14th. page 5.


----------



## Karen G

hobyhaus said:


> My notes are under wallace J.  March 14th. page 5.


His remarks are the seventh post down at this link. Posters are identified over to the right of the posts with a little symbol and their name.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

I think the statement of considerable work done is Bogus. I have been watching the camera's and there has been jack done for a while. Come on' where are the elevators in this design. Remember "do not buy" or you will get will learn on of life's lessons. 

Owner since 2006, four years and no usage. Miramar was also a scam so you would buy.

Sounds like he has a profitable new resturant and an internet cafe at the expense of the owners he took from.


----------



## Javier Ivan

*NEWS*

Hello Everyone, I Hope Everything Is Ok.

Well, In These Days As I Told You, I Have Been Researching About This Situation. After Posting Some Pictures Of The Bulding I Went To The   Agency That Gives The Permits (obras Públicas) And Everything Is Ok With The Paperwork Stuff They (belaire) Have All In Order, At The Moment.

Here Comes The Bad News. I Was Searching About Antonio Copela In The Web And I There Is An Antecedent From September 9 2009. This Note Was Published In Vallarta Opina (at This Moment I Still Was Studing My Carrer). I Will Resume You The Note

" There Were Two People Under Arrest, One Of Them Is Daniel Niño Chavarin (he Is Married With A Copela's Daughter) And He Participate In The Collection Of 120,000 Usd From A Extortion Made To José De Jesus Carranza (an Architec), It Is Supose That This Architec Failed On The Construction Of Two Condominiums That Was Planed To Be  Rised On Albatros Street In Marina Vallarta". The Note Doesn't Mention The Name Proyect, But I Think That They Was Refering To Belaire. The Question Here Is, This Action Was Planed By Copela? I Can't Ensure That, But By The Testimonials That Many Members Talk About The Way How Copela Treated Them, It Is Possible.

I Talked With A Construction Agent From The Company That Was Working On The Building, They Were Doing The Parking Basement. And They Stopped Working About A Year 1/2 Ago, By The Lack Of Payment. The Company Later Was Aware Of The Tricky Way To Work Of Antonio Copela And The Engineer Clavel (they Start With Payment On Time, But As The Work Continous They Get Delayed, Until They Stop Paying), This Has Happened Several Times During The Construction, The Agent Told Me That This Wasn't The First Time That They Do This. This Is Like The 2nd Or 3rd Construction Company That Have Problems With Belaire. 

At The Moment They Still Owe Money To The Construction Company And They Have A Lawsuit With Them. Demanding The Payment That Belaire Owes To Them.

Am Wating For A Phone Call Of The Person Who Is In Charge Of The Situation, Because This Company Have Their Headquarters In Mexico City. So Ill Be In Touch Soon.

I Haven't Published Anything Yet, Am Still Researching Trying To Get More Info.  I'll Let You Know When Is Coming Out.  

This Proyect Have Some Serius Problems, But I Belive That You Can Do Something To Get Back Your Money, Am Really Sorry About This, I Hope That Sooner This Ends With A Good Solution For All Of You. And I Am Really Impressed By The Lack Of Comunication Between The Company And Their Costumers, This Is Unacceptable.

Have A Good Day.

P.d. Sorry If I Miss Or Mix Some Words In My Writing.


----------



## Javier Ivan

*Belaire News*

Hi everyone, yesterday i received a phone call from Leonardo Menije, he is the legal representative of Belaire. We arrange an apointment for today at 10:00am in the Belaire Restaurant. i ask so many questions and he was kind and was willing to provide all the answers.

i spoke with him for an hour, i mentioned some of the cases that i have read. He explained some of the problems that they have gone during the construction, despite of the problems, he ensure me, that everything is gonna be alright. He told me that in three weeks there's going to be people working again ( they have had problems with some labor union) problems that they will let you know later.

You will have to be very patient, i saw the dates of construction and the end date for the construction of the first tower will be until 2012, they are in every order to offer you what you need while the construction is done.

i made emphasis on the lack of comunication with their costumers, and he really showed concerned about that. This area, comunication, is no the task of Leonardo Menije, but he told me that he is going to talk with the personal that is in charge of this.

trust me, he really was worried about everything that i mentioned. maybe this is a way to make them to put more attention on their business. from now on, they must be rearranging a lot of things. I'll be ware of what happens soon. and i will keep in touch.


Am sure that you still have doubts of this, but now it is turn of BELAIRE to give you an explanation.

Have a good day everyone. Till next time


----------



## california-bighorn

*Right*



Javier Ivan said:


> Hi everyone, yesterday i received a phone call from Leonardo Menije, he is the legal representative of Belaire. We arrange an apointment for today at 10:00am in the Belaire Restaurant. i ask so many questions and he was kind and was willing to provide all the answers.
> 
> i spoke with him for an hour, i mentioned some of the cases that i have read. He explained some of the problems that they have gone during the construction, despite of the problems, he ensure me, that everything is gonna be alright. He told me that in three weeks there's going to be people working again ( they have had problems with some labor union) problems that they will let you know later.
> 
> You will have to be very patient, i saw the dates of construction and the end date for the construction of the first tower will be until 2012, they are in every order to offer you what you need while the construction is done.
> 
> i made emphasis on the lack of comunication with their costumers, and he really showed concerned about that. This area, comunication, is no the task of Leonardo Menije, but he told me that he is going to talk with the personal that is in charge of this.
> 
> trust me, he really was worried about everything that i mentioned. maybe this is a way to make them to put more attention on their business. from now on, they must be rearranging a lot of things. I'll be ware of what happens soon. and i will keep in touch.
> 
> 
> Am sure that you still have doubts of this, but now it is turn of BELAIRE to give you an explanation.
> 
> Have a good day everyone. Till next time



I'll bet a lot of people are wondering the same thing so I'll ask the question, does anyone take this seriously?


----------



## TimeShare Junky

california-bighorn said:


> I'll bet a lot of people are wondering the same thing so I'll ask the question, does anyone take this seriously?



Good point, especially that Miramar was a big lie. How do construction delays affect that sell ? 

Here you have a con that has ripped off consumers and the construction companies, and the owner of Belaire would like to explain another lie so he can sqeeze every nickle out of his victims.


----------



## needavacation

*???*

Has anyone noticed how drastically different Javier's two messages are?  Notice the grammar and use of caps.  These messages are obviously written by different people.  I would guess that the Belaire employees take turns blogging.

I was taken in 2007 so I check into this mess every now and then.


----------



## scgmexico

*They Are Fake Starting From The Name!!*

HI EVERY ONE,

THIS CONSTRUCTION COMPANY IN NUEVO VALLARTA IS A COMPLETE FRAUD!! STARTING FROM THE NAME

THEY TOOK THE NAME OF "BELAIRE", AND THIS NAME THAT DOESN´T BELONG TO THEM, THEY DON´T HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THAT NAME.

THEY ARE TARNISHING THE NAME OF A REAL HOTEL CHAIN THAS IS NOT RALEATED IN ANY SENSE WITH THIS FRAUD, AND THIS IS NOT FAIR, THE REAL BELAIR IS A SMALL AND CUTE BOUTIQUE HOTEL IN CANCUN (www.belaircollection.com) AND I REPEAT THERE IS NOT RELATION WITH THIS FRAUDULENT AND DISHONEST COMPANY.

THE HOTEL IN CANCUN HAS PROPERLY REGISTERED, YEARS AGO, THE NAME IN THE "IMPI" (INSTITUTO MEXICANO DE LA PROPIEDAD INDUSTRIAL).  

IT IS A SHAME, BUT THIS CONSTRUCTION COMPANY IS GOING AGAINST THE LAW IN MANY WAYS.

I HOPE THE LAW CAN DO SOMETHING TO FINISH WITH THIS COMPLETE FRAUD.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I arrived home from Mexico May 1, 2010.  Since then I check the Belaire web site every day with the cameras they have installed and look for possible construction that is going on.  I haven't seen one single day of construction since May 1.  It looks like this project is dead in the water and the possabilty of completion may never occur.  I hope I am wrong in my observations and if anybody has any additional information please share it with me and other TUG members.
Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Same old, Same old Belaire*

Just returned from 3 weeks in PV with a stop by the Belaire. Apparently some things will never change. They continue to have plenty of guys on the street offering as much as 6500 Pesos for a visit. On the one day we stopped by just to see if anything was going on, there were two workers on site. We couldn't get in the front door without an invitation to even look around. 
We talked to a couple who did go to a breakfast while we were there and it sounds like the hard sell is not as bad as in previous months. Fortunately they didn't buy which was a relief to hear. 
For those of you like us who were told that they would be "moving the airport" so there would be no noise, its particularly amusing to fly almost directly over the Belaire on the wasy out of PV. 
Time for us to once again say thank you   for all who kept us out of deep financial trouble by sharing news on TUG!


----------



## hobyhaus

*Belaire newsletter*

As a purchaser,or patsy, as we later learned, of Belaire I want to add my comments.  Just this week we received a newsletter from the "Belaire Family".  In the letter some members are admonished for having unhealthy negative feelings and spreading lies and grief on the internet.  The developers blame the economy for all their problems, but "better days are coming."  They go on to say that there,"are reasons that the resort is not finished and that all will be explained in time."  The buyers are to, "stand strong in the faith."  Well, I do not know about others who purchased, but our faith is weakening every day.

We were saddened to learn that they are still selling units.  We, for all practical purposes feel only with a miracle, have lost out on this dream.  We hope others will read this and have second thoughts about purchasing.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

Have you ever built with no money, apparently they are a ton short. Secondly, would you ever sell a house with no money to build it. Belaire's response is a joke and the Mexican government should be stopping them.





hobyhaus said:


> As a purchaser,or patsy, as we later learned, of Belaire I want to add my comments.  Just this week we received a newsletter from the "Belaire Family".  In the letter some members are admonished for having unhealthy negative feelings and spreading lies and grief on the internet.  The developers blame the economy for all their problems, but "better days are coming."  They go on to say that there,"are reasons that the resort is not finished and that all will be explained in time."  The buyers are to, "stand strong in the faith."  Well, I do not know about others who purchased, but our faith is weakening every day.
> 
> We were saddened to learn that they are still selling units.  We, for all practical purposes feel only with a miracle, have lost out on this dream.  We hope others will read this and have second thoughts about purchasing.


----------



## hobyhaus

*Latest News on Belaire*

Check out the website for Belaire.  Gone are the camera sites.  Now, we are really do not know what the progress is and that is maybe how the "Belaire Family" wants us to be, in the dark.  Obviously, nothing is happening with the building.  Opening in November, they must really be kidding.


----------



## judy23

I called there and they answered with a different name. I asked the girl if they changed names and she said yes. Best I could understand it is now "U". That is what she said, and  Antonio is still there.


----------



## judy23

I received an email fro csr svc. The new official name is "U Vallarta"


----------



## TimeShare Junky

How about this, "U" rip me off.


----------



## PamF

*Belaire taken over?  Anyone receive a call from an attorney?*

Has anyone who is a fractional Belaire owner received a call from an attorney in Mexico who looking to buy back Belaire shares?


----------



## teesamarie

*Belaire Golf and Spa*

Today I receive at phone call from an attorney claiming to represent Belaire only the name has changed to Ur.  He is offering me $63,000.00 for my time share, but wants 2,300.00 first to do the paper work.  Has anyone else received anything like this.  Is this just another scam?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

teesamarie said:


> Today I receive at phone call from an attorney claiming to represent Belaire only the name has changed to Ur.  He is offering me $63,000.00 for my time share, but wants 2,300.00 first to do the paper work.  Has anyone else received anything like this.  Is this just another scam?


This is almost assuredly a scam. He will take the $2300 then all you will hear from him is a litany of excuses for why the deal hasn't yet closed. After a bit he will stop responding to you at all.

Here's an easy test - tell him that you will sell it to him for $50,000 if he pays for the paperwork cost himself.  He can then turn around and sell it to Belaire himself for $63,000, clearing  more than $12,000 in pure profit.  

Res assured that he will give you a bunch of reasons why that won't work. But take a step back and realize that there isn't a reason in the world why any legitimate business person would turn down that offer.  If he protests that it's a conflict, tell him that he can sell it to Belaire for $60,000 instead of $63,000, saving his client money and enabling himself to make money.  There's no conflict if he scores a better deal for his client than what his client would have paid anyway.

But you can be assured that as soon as he realizes that you are *not giving him money he can abscond with*, he will be gone.  And you will have saved yourself $2300.


----------



## jeanbean

*BelAire -U (New Name)*

Another "scam". How many of us will give them another bite of the apple?
Won't this ever end? We rec'd the same call - don't fall victim again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## steve-bushman

hi,
i am new to tug and joined just now. my husband and i purchased at belaire in january of 2007. we have been back there twice and checked out the lack of construction.  i have gotten the welcoming newsletter from "U". i received a call from an attorney from las vegas at vacation management co.  this company was hired by "U" to take care of the buy backs & rentals. this is no different than belaire promising us to rent our weeks back when we purchsed. i was thinking that this might be on the up and up as i know that there is between a 10%-20% fee to change all of the contracts to a new owner.(i have been through this before and had to use an agency and pay them about 10% of the purchase price to take care of all of this. i did not have to wire the money to an escrow account though) i am not sure if there are different ways to do this. does anyone know how to get in touch with the prefeco or whatever it is to see if this is true that they are making  "U" honor the buy back clause in our contract. the laywer told me that that was a condition of the takeover. if it is indeed true then i will take the chance, as right now, i have nothing! according to the attorney-i have talked with him several times-"U" owns the casino over at the liverpool mall as well as in monterey and mexico city. they are planning to put one under the first tower at belaire! according to him, 2 towers will be right wehere they were planned, but "U" is planning to put 3 more towers across the street-with much smaller rooms. he also told me there are 1200 contracts that he is dealing with and that belaire apparently oversold. i will be going to puerto vallarta in november and hopefully will see some construction. thanksd for reading


----------



## pianodinosaur

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> This is almost assuredly a scam. He will take the $2300 then all you will hear from him is a litany of excuses for why the deal hasn't yet closed. After a bit he will stop responding to you at all.
> 
> Here's an easy test - tell him that you will sell it to him for $50,000 if he pays for the paperwork cost himself.  He can then turn around and sell it to Belaire himself for $63,000, clearing  more than $12,000 in pure profit.
> 
> Res assured that he will give you a bunch of reasons why that won't work. But take a step back and realize that there isn't a reason in the world why any legitimate business person would turn down that offer.  If he protests that it's a conflict, tell him that he can sell it to Belaire for $60,000 instead of $63,000, saving his client money and enabling himself to make money.  There's no conflict if he scores a better deal for his client than what his client would have paid anyway.
> 
> But you can be assured that as soon as he realizes that you are *not giving him money he can abscond with*, he will be gone.  And you will have saved yourself $2300.



The CaveMan is absolutely correct.  TugBrian has posted several articles about timeshare resale scams that require money upfront. Check them out under Buying and Selling.  There are even links to videos featuring TugBrian.


----------



## Karen G

steve-bushman said:


> does anyone know how to get in touch with the prefeco or whatever it is to see if this is true that they are making  "U" honor the buy back clause in our contract.


 Here's info about Profeco. There is contact information on the page. As others have warned, this really sounds like another scam. Paying upfront money for anything that has do with Belaire seems like a very bad idea.


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## hobyhaus

*Belaire or U Hotel*

Everyone who owns at Belaire needs to check out Redweek.com.  This whole project is crazy from the start to finish whenever that will be.  We are sorry we ever got involved.


----------



## PamF

More information about what to search at redweek.com would be helpful.  

There is nothing listed for Belaire on that site.


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## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

Go to Redweek.com on the right side of the page click or search forums, when it comes up type iin Belaire Golf Resort and Spa and click on go.  You will find quite a bit of information on Belaire.
Henry


----------



## PamF

Ahhhh, didn't realize to search the 'forums'.  Thanks!


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## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

If any Tuggers are in the Puerto Vallarta area and see or hear anything about the Belaire project would you please post such information.

Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.


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## acaseyc

*Belaire This Month*

We will be in Puerto Vallarta for 2 weeks starting Wednesday.  I plan on visiting Belaire with camera and will post with my impression at first opportunity ( That means after Margarita Happy Hour)....


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

acaseyc said:


> We will be in Puerto Vallarta for 2 weeks starting Wednesday.  I plan on visiting Belaire with camera and will post with my impression at first opportunity ( That means after Margarita Happy Hour)....



We'll be staying in the Marina early next year.  I will also try to get some updated photos and status report on the never-ending building sometime when we go out for a walk.


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## acaseyc

*Musical Chairs? or "Who's on First?"*

*HOTEL U GOLF RESORT AND MARINA
From visits and meetings October 23, 2010​*​*1: Rumors from street timeshare touts: *  Hotel U is the same 'ol management with a new partner to build a Casino. The Belaire 2nd tower will not be built, but smaller units will be built on property across the street.  Belaire bought into the Playa del Sol Resort in Nuevo Vallarta. Same story, new name. _Take your pick or make your own dream. I have satisfied myself that the investment in Playa del Sol was the Bel Air Group from Cabo._

*2: Some announcements from recent newsletters from the “new” management.*
A:  Andy Stone, MBA is Director of International Relations
B:  Plan is to honor Buy-back agreements.
C:  Buy-back will not proceed unless owner ceases actions with banks, credit-cards and PROFECO.
D: Mexico requires 10% advance to change timeshare ownerships.
E: Plans to build Casino confirmed. Here's what they say on their website “_U Casino Grand Opening Over two years in the making, and millions of dollars spent the new Hotel U Golf Resort and Marina Casino will celebrate the grand opening with huge crowds and stunning displays.  Preparations are taking place at the casino and they span many different areas of the facility. There will be a ribbon cutting ceremony, and then customers will be allowed to enter the casino and begin to gamble. It is an occasion that all involved are looking forward to.  "We'll be giving opening gifts to the first several people to come in"

*3: Here's a couple of choice pieces of info given from on-site U mngmt to a disgruntled owner:*
A: New website Nov 1.
B: New Sales team mid-November
C: Construction start-up mid-November with web-cams.
D: Buy-backs to start late Nov or early Dec.

*4: Here's my estimated reality, with some additional commentary:*
A: Same player, same story, new name to change image
B: Probably new partner to build Casino
C: Building across street may not happen, that property still had For Sale Sign 10/23/10
D: If these guys are real, making offer to buy back would stop any actions pending and should not require ceasing before buy-back initiated.
E: I seriously doubt that Mexico has any law requiring 10% advance to change timehare ownship 
F: Buy-back agreements described to me (second hand) are not structured the way I understand the contracts contemplated, but are to be a re-sale to new owners. Sounds like that old game of payoff investors by raising money from new investors...........
G: If Andy Stone has MBA, he obviously is not supervising the website team:
	The old Belaire website still exists without cameras  http://www.belairevacationclub.com.
	The old “Parent Co.” website ( http://www.theluxuryexperienceprc.com  )has been changed with search and replace Belaire with Hotel U Golf Resort and Marina without care or concern that the link to the new website does not work and, among other deficiencies, it still refers to the non-existent Grand Marina Residence Club and Business Center and includes an 	offer for free visit that expires in 2008.
	The new website ( http://hotelugolfresortandmarina.com/  )  includes this laughable description from the Parent Co. site:  “Our International Company is a Mexico limited liability corporation that acquires, markets, develops, sells, manages and operates luxury properties in the hotel, hospitality, vacation, travel, r	ecreation, and private residence club segments.* The company has created what it believes is the newest and most 	innovative concept in vacation investment available.”

Picture attached shows missing steel beams, which indicate the sudden termination of work. I have no investment at risk in Belaire, but it saddens me to know what has happened to so many people.  If you are invested, my recommendation is to *HIRE AN ATTORNEY AND GET OUT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE*, if its not already too late._


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## KarenLK

I would be really surprised to find out that casinos were now allowed in Mexico...


----------



## timesharejunkie4

KarenLK said:


> I would be really surprised to find out that casinos were now allowed in Mexico...



There is a casino in Cabo. I have only walked thru it. Saw lots of slot machines.


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## judy23

*Bellaire*

there are 2 casinos' in PV I have been in one of them and Mr Graziano is putting one in Paradise Village new shopping center.


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## teesamarie

*Belaire Golf and Spa*

Is there anything at all going on there?


----------



## acaseyc

*No more www Belaire*



teesamarie said:


> Is there anything at all going on there?



Nothing as of Oct 23. Site was littered with cast-off steel beams and drain pipes.
Guard informed us office was open m-f from 10am to 4pm and appointment needed for entry.

Guess something might be happening, the old Belaire website is finally gone...

Maybe the new partner will get something done?  I can hardly wait for another onsite view by someone.


----------



## Bulldozer

*Belaire Resort and Spa*

I have read several of the posts on Belaire or should I say Hotel U. I understand that the name "Belaire" was stolen from a boutique hotel in the Cancun area? Well, guess what? Hotel U is a a small chain of high end boutique hotels in Asia.
I contacted the President of Hotel U in Asia (the real Hotel U) and asked if they were affiliated with this project in PV and I sent him a link to the website. I was advised by the President that this project was not at all affiliated with their chain of hotels and that he was going to be forwarding this information onto their legal department. These guys in PV even stole the insignia of the Asian hotel chain.
I was in PV over Christmas and New Year. The sales office was closed, however the salon was open for some of those days. Even the guy who runs the salon has no idea what is going on with this development.
I stopped by on Jan 03, 2011 just a few hours prior to leaving the country to see if there might be some sales people around. There was some Mexican guy walking around in a shirt and tie who presented himself as an Engineer for this project. Since I too am an Engineer I am quite confident that this fellow was no more an Engineer than he was Santa Clause. I took it upon my self to walk into the back room where I saw an older caucasian lady, a younger Mexican lady, what appeared to be an IT type guy and a 400lb Mexican guy who I guess was some sort of security guy since it was him who attempted to remove me from the back room. After some verbal altercations with these people and the 400 pounder calling someone on the phone I decided that it might be in my best interest to leave. These guys either could not or would not answer any of my questions about the project.
Upon my leaving the building, the so called Engineer followed me to my vehicle 
I guess to ensure that I left the premises. He told me that he too was leaving for the day. He followed me all the way to my vehicle which was the very last car parked on the street. I entered my vehicle and left, the so called Engineer kept walking. I guess he would be the only Engineer I know that does not have a vehicle since there were no other vehicles parked past where I was parked.
I can only conclude that these guys are nothing more than con artists who have ripped off what must be millions of dollars from trusting tourists. 
BTW, there was no construction taking place on the site, I was in PV last May as well, there has been no construction since that time either.
The so called Engineer advised me that there would be full construction on this building in one or two weeks and that it would be complete by Dec. of this year. Well its been 17 days and to the best of my knowledge there is still no construction taking place at this development and still no cameras up and running.
I printed this so those of you who have purchased from these criminals and have not been back to PV in some time would have an idea as to what is taking place at Belaire aka Hotel U. 

Bulldozer!


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort and Spa*

I am at the Mayan Palace Marina and have not been able to go down to the Belaire project because my wife has been quite ill. However I will share this with you. I meet a man at the Mayan who is an owner at Belaire, he scheduled a meeting with the resort and was told he had to pay an additional $7,000 dollars if he wanted any hope of keeping his contract valid. Unfortunatley this poor gentleman seems to have made this payment. This seems to be the latest scheme in this long running mess. I will be in the Puerto Vallarta area until April 30, and if I see or hear anything I will post it.


----------



## kingofthegeeks

Honestly, i gave up on this money a couple years ago, the only satisfaction i get is that i did not want to buy here and it was my wife who really pushed it.  So while i paid alot of money, its the only time i have ever been able to get my wife to admit that i was right..........

Its unfortunate but i really have just considered this a blown investment, and have learned that unless i can move into something immediately after the paperwork is complete, i will not be buying it.


----------



## PamF

What I will never understand is how the Mexican government and Profeco continue to allow the Belaire to keep stealing money from people.

My parents were hoodwinked by these cons years back and still think something might actually be built one day.

I just don't understand.


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## judy23

Pam,
We have no proof,but the word from the locals is that they paid off everyone they had to to turn the other way including profeco, who is useless.The resort has been nicknamed  "All Aire" on the street. The reason why the sales dept is not open is because no one will send people there.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

judy23 said:


> The resort has been nicknamed  "All Aire" on the street.


What's the nickname in Spanish - "todo aire"?  "sólo aire"? 

"Bellaco Aire" might fit. "Bello Aire" => "Bellaco Aire"


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## Archie583

February 24, 2011
No construction has started as of this date.  The Belaire now calls itself the Hotel U and claims the Belaire does not exist anymore, thus lawsuits against Belaire are not possible.  They claim construction will start soon and take 10 to 11 months to complete. They are asking former Belaire owners for an additional 7999.00 dollars and they say they have 200 members who have already signed up.  They said they will honor Belaire contracts of those who do not pay but they will go to the bottom of the list in terms of priority. I wil not even consider giving these peope one additional penny until I see a completed tower. I am moving downtown and if I see or hear anything else I will post it.


----------



## hobyhaus

*Latest news*

I also visited U Hotel after making an appointment.  I was met by a gentleman, whose name might be Carlos Camba.  He took me in and offered me something off an old menu.  He left to get a copy of my contract.  I noticed another couple and went overand asked them if they had also purchased.  They replied yes.  I them told them not to invest any more money into this operation.  The young man returned but he did not want me to speak to them.

Another gentleman came in whose name is Mario Llamas, head honcho.  He explained that nothing has started as they still had to get the permits and did not want to pay the Mexico government $250,000. last July as they were not ready to start construcion at that time.  I told them that the newsletter stated that the permits were in order.  They cannot even get their story straight.  I asked him about Mr. Hightower and Mr Williams but he said that he did not know anyone with those names. He told me the transfer fee would be $7999.00.

The other couple left and in just a minute we all ended up in the same room again.  Since my husband was not with me he wanted to leave ASAP.  The first gentleman took me out and while walking out I asked him why they had security 24/7.  He told me it was there to protect the construction equipment.  I told him I did not think any one would be stealing the steel  superstructure that was in place.  He offered to drive me back to my hotel and went to get a key but then returned to say that the cars were out of gas.

I left pronto.  Would I give them any more money NO.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

While riding the Marina Vallarta bus last Sunday headed towards downtown, we were talking with a couple who had boarded the bus with us at the Mayan Palace stop.  After the bus made the turnaround on the north side of the and stopped in front of Velas Vallarta, I pointed out the steel superstructure and mentioned that the Bel Aire was a notorious scam.

A couple sitting several rows away, who had just gotten on, commented that they were among those who had been stung, having bought a Bel Aire unit preconstruction in about 2006.  They mentioned that they had received the notice that the new owners were prepared to exercise the buyback that was included in the Bel Aire contract, but first they were required to pay in 10% more to get the buyback process started.

They said a meeting had been scheduled for the next day, Monday, to discuss the situation with the "new" owners.  They said they had no plans to pay any additional money for any purpose.  

If I saw them again on the bus I was going to ask them how the meeting went.  But I didn't see them again.


----------



## taffy19

Two more recent posts here. We were planning to go by this resort again to see if anything had happened since last year but the timeshare sharks told us that they are out of business.

I feel so sad for the people who have bought here in good faith and I was hoping that they would get their money back. We were told by a salesman at one of the resorts that the developer has to have a bond or something equivalent in place before he can start building just in case the project goes out of business so the buyers are protected. I wonder now if this isn't true? 

The laws are different here from us at home. What is so strange is that Profeco has helped some people (mentioned in the other thread too) but not everyone. Did they really get bought off? I do not want to believe that. Who knows what is going on here?


----------



## Zib

Just back from P.V.  We went by the property a number of times and saw no activity at all.  There is a Century 21 "for sale sign" on the porperty.


----------



## siesta

deleted...


----------



## hobyhaus

*Very latest information*

I drove by on March 9th and 10th.  On the 9th there was a guard in his house, but on the the 10th none.  In the drive were about 10 cars.  There is  no for sale sign out front. It is on the property that is across the street that they say they have purchased.  I forgot to say in my last report that the unit that I owned they are "selling for" $114,000.00 now.  I did notice that there is some black stuff on the bars where they have been welded together.  Rust perhaps?

Has anyone contacted the AZ Travel Service that we are to contact for exchange to go to Belaire or to go elsewhere?  I got this information from Profecto as I have a complaint with them about Belaire.

Still very disgusted.


----------



## judy23

We have friends who were able to get weeks at both the Mayan in the Marina and Nuervo,also the sea garden, the last 3 yrs through this co in Az. They pd $300 for each week for a 1 br unit . They only purchased an exit package from Belaire for very little money


----------



## brucecz

WARNING, BE VERY CAREFUL.  There is a preconstruction sales going on a little north  Buecerus and we did a presentation this January and to sounded to good and big and true.  They were going to supposedly build their own Malecon, their own airport and we could bring our own Great Danes.

We of course passed as the MO seems like the Belaire in that it is being pitched as a a investment in a fractional  and it is supposedly not a timeshare and you will make a lot of money on" your investment" They have their rental division that makes it sound like they  guarantee it will  rent but the agreement guarantees to only  list your rental, but does NOT  guarantees  your rental,  Sounds  a lot like the Belaire, the Mayan Palace, etc.

We feel very sorry for those Tuggers who got ripped off by the Belarire.  We almost got suckered into buying a exit package from Belaire, but recinded the next day as no one could deliver  any were the amount of services they promised for $600 per week for a 2 bedroom. Plus the agreement once we read we understood that it was a terrable deal with no protection against leggally being ripped off.

It was to bad that some on this board did not heed Greggs and my and other Tuggers early warnings over 3 years ago.  

Even some Tuggers sided with the shills and  questioned our motives and agendas. Some of us got hammered on Tug and in nasty private emails for telling the truth and trying to get the word out.

Go back to posts by Dutch 23, the Mule and other the shills personal attacks to understand. That string as I pointed out 3 years ago might have set a record for supporting a  resort in preconstruction sales. 

But it was well worth it as several  Tuggers after seeing our posts and following our instructions on how to legally cancel the Belaire contracts did so and thanked us on Tug and behind the sences.

Now finally 3 or so  years later all  people should  know beyond a doubt that we were just trying to help expose the Belaire and help them.

I think it helped a lot when one of the mods, I think I have to credit Dave  exposed a shill when the shill said he was posting from his home in the US and it was really from Puerto Vallarta.

Bruce


----------



## california-bighorn

*Remember it well*

Bruce,  I remember well your warnings about the Belair in PV and some of the criticism directed at you and others for "raining on their parade".  Their claims were so far fetched I didn't think anyone would believe them, but unfortunately some did and I feel for them bigtime.  Last time we were in PV about 2 years ago, we walked by the Belair just so I could see firsthand the lack of progress, even at that time.  After a year and a half it was just a few steel beams.  Even if it had been completed, the location off the beach didn't interest me.  There are probably several lessons to be learned from this, but not everyone knows of access to information like TUG and some will get burned on other projects that hit the pocketbook and run.  Reading the recent updates leaves no doubt in my mind (if there ever was any) that investors in Belair will never see any returns.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Reading back through some of the earlier portions of the thread, I figure that there are one of two outcomes for that frequent big dog of a poster:

1.  He's slinking around with his tail between his legs while all of the other dogs life their legs a higher.

2. He's laughing like a hyena as he and his pack count up again all the money they wrastled away from the little dogs.


----------



## Archie583

April 1,2011
No workers, no equipment on site as of this day. I will visit the site one more time before I leave on April 30.


----------



## pammex

No workers, no equipment in Jan for 2 weeks and also in Feb and beg. of march whilest I was there.  Very little has been done in such a long time....


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

pammex said:


> No workers, no equipment in Jan for 2 weeks and also in Feb and beg. of march whilest I was there.  Very little has been done in such a long time....


At least they're no longer even making a pretense that construction is underway.


----------



## Archie583

June 7, 2011

Is their any TUG member who has been to Puerto Vallarta recently that can tell me if their is any construction going on at Belaire?


----------



## Archie583

Archie583 said:


> June 7, 2011
> 
> Is their any TUG member who has been to Puerto Vallarta recently that can tell me if their is any construction going on at Belaire?



It is now September 15, 2011. I have all but given up on Belaire and accept the fact that it is and always was a total fraud. I was just wondering if any Tug member has been in PV recently and came up with any new information.
Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.


----------



## california-bighorn

Archie583 said:


> It is now September 15, 2011. I have all but given up on Belaire and accept the fact that it is and always was a total fraud. I was just wondering if any Tug member has been in PV recently and came up with any new information.
> Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.



I've seen a resort named Bel Air Cabos in San Jose Del Cabo. Is this a related resort?  I see exchange availability thru TPI.


----------



## siesta

california-bighorn said:


> I've seen a resort named Bel Air Cabos in San Jose Del Cabo. Is this a related resort?  I see exchange availability thru TPI.


 no, usually they try to use a hotel name to make it sound like they are affiliated with a different hotel. This is Belaire not Bel Air.


----------



## acaseyc

Archie583 said:


> It is now September 15, 2011. I have all but given up on Belaire and accept the fact that it is and always was a total fraud. I was just wondering if any Tug member has been in PV recently and came up with any new information.
> Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.



We will be there mid-October and plan to "check-it-out"...will post as soon as we can.


----------



## TimeShare Junky

*Belaire*

Any update associated to this ripoff ?


----------



## hobyhaus

*All City Group Offer to Resell*

I just heard from a group called All City group from Kansas City who has a "buyer" for our interest in Belair AKA U hotel.  The usual, an inflated price and no money up front.  Anyone else been approached?  Where are they getting our names and phone numbers?  I told the girl who called to get another job, that this one stinks.


----------



## judy23

What is there to resell?? It has to be another scam. We are owners and have not been called.


----------



## jeanbean

*Bel Aire - U Resorts*

Still a scam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't they ever quit? After investing and receiving nothing but Newsletters, who would possibly spend another dime? They think us, the original buyers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## JanetG

*Belaire vs Bel Air Playa Del Sol fraud/scam*

For clarification, yet another TS fraud--Playa Del Sol with locations in PV, Nuevo Vallarta and Cabos sold their properties out from under the owners.  The PV location (formerly called Costa Sur) was sold to Howard Johnson chain and the Nuevo Vallart location (formerly called "the Grand) and the Cabo location have been sold and renamed  "Bel Air Collection Resort & Spa Vallarta and Los Cabos"  if you google playa del sol this is the names that come up.  
So the names look very close but they are different, but the Bel Air Collection via the Playa Del sol Group is equally as much a scam and shouldd be avoided like the plague.

http://www.timesharescam.com/timeshare-scam-mexico/playa_del_sol_timeshare-4


----------



## PamF

My parents have received an offer to sell their 'piece' back as well.

They have received paperwork.  I am going to take it to an attorney that practices in Mexico to see what the heck it's about; I don't want my folks to get fleeced for yet more $$.  

Anyone else get contacted by U?


----------



## jeanbean

*Bel Aire (U Resort & Spa)*

I am also an owner and have not rec'd any offers. Can you elaborate on the wording or exactly what they're offering? I will be there in Jan and would like to investigate the possibility.


----------



## mplswjr

*Bel Aire vs. Belair*

I would like to correct and hopefully clarify a post above.  We have been members of the Playa del Sol Club for a number of years.  Until late 2010, and slightly into 2011, Playa del Sol Club was owned/managed by Ken Molinaro who allowed the resort to seriously degrade in quality, and successfully "ripped off" many members by an "extraordianry fee" that he assessed.  Mr. Molinaro sold his interest to a small chain of hotel resorts called the "Belair Collection....."  Please note that this Belair is completely unrelated to the Bel Aire resort located in the marina area of Puerto Vallarta, which was a very bad operation operated by a fellow named Antonio, which bilked many people out of millions of dollars.  That site and operation now appears to have morphed into "U Resorts", but appears to be virtually the same in operation to the previous Bel Aire.
My wife and I are currently staying at the Belair Collection Resort in Nuevo Vallarta, which is located between the new RIU Palace, and the Villa del Palmar Flamingos (not the one in Puerto Vallarta).  The Belair Collection has made som very nice updates to the property, its building infrastructure, and its service offerings.  They continue to honor the contracts of holders of the Playa del Sol memberships, but also have numerous guests that patronize the resort as a result of their own marketing.  Belair dismissed all the former timeshare sales people including the women who worked at the concierge desk.  That dismissal happened about a year ago, and they have had no sales operation on site since.  I'm told that Belair may initiate a sales operation in the coming year to be located in the former Italian restaurant on site.  The room where the old sales operation was located is now used as a conference room and for weddings.
In short, it is at least incorrect to call the current Belair Collection operation in Nuevo Vallarta a "rip off to be avoided like the plague".  The developments of the past year have demonstrated what I see as a significant enhancement to the value of our ownership (actually membership) at the facility.  Like almost all Mexsican timeshare operations, that may change for the worse, but as of now, I believe it is best to speak of them and treat them fairly and give them an opportunity to operate in such a way that benefits those of us who have retained and maintained our membership.
I invite Belair members to write me for furter information while I'm here through January 2012.  I'll attempt to clarify or correct other points of interest.
Respectful regards,
Bill Rademacher


----------



## brucecz

Bill we will be staying at the Lindo Mar in Puerto Vallarta from Jan 21 to Feb 4, 2012. Maybe there could be a group get together,

Bruce


----------



## KarenLK

Bruce, I have a photo of you and your wife from our last meeting at Joe Jack's. Let's try to meet again!


----------



## brucecz

Sounds  good.

Bruce


----------



## hobyhaus

*My visit to Belaire/U Hotel*

I just wrote a long message regarding my visit that I had a few days ago with the "legal counsel" of this operation.  I put it on Red Week under the Belaire Vacation Club/Puerto Vallarta section.


----------



## PamF

No new posts or news on this scam?

This jerks have conned more money out of my retired parents.    Makes me so angry. :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: 

Why can't the Mexican government step up and help?  This is just so bad.


----------



## Snappy Sam

*Who is Belaire today?*

Does anyone know the name of The latest scam properties owned by the Capolas? Haven't heard their name in a while.


----------



## mplswjr

*Belaire "Morphed"*

In January, we vacatoioned in PV/NV and were told that the former Belaire located in the PV Marina area (not the Belair Collection in NV) had "morphed" into "U Resorts" on the same old site.  Admittedly, this is hearsay, but the best info I can offer.
Bill


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

mplswjr said:


> In January, we vacatoioned in PV/NV and were told that the former Belaire located in the PV Marina area (not the Belair Collection in NV) had "morphed" into "U Resorts" on the same old site.  Admittedly, this is hearsay, but the best info I can offer.
> Bill



Yes it has, When you go by the building it now says "U".  There's discussion of this upthread, including how after the morph the "new owners" were hitting up the Bel Air purchasers for more money to be able to retain their rights under the new ownership.  A couple of years ago I was riding on the Marina bus with some folks who were Belaire victims and who were going to be attending a meeting with the "U" people the next day about converting their ownership.  They were not at all inclined to do so.

I also understand that even the use of "U" is a scam, and they have been trying to make people think that they are affiliated with the "U" luxury hotel chain that is based in SE Asia.


----------



## jeanbean

*Newsletter*

Every month, the people who have been scammed(owners) receive a newsletter  from "u" resorts relating their progress. That progress has never ocurred. It also speaks of "buy back offers", which I as a scammed owner have never received. They are signed by a "Mr. Andy Stone, MBA. They contain newsy info about what is taking place in Puerto Vallarta and more promises about what is taking place with our investment. I just can't understand, why, people that have stole that much money from me, and so many others, continue to try and lead me to believe they are nothing but "theives". I know, I am not the only victim of this scam, that receives this monthly newsletter. But, I have never read anything about it on the Tug website. We were there, the first 3 months of this year, and, the only thing we could get, was a card with a reference #. That ended up, with no information.

What's up with that?

Why are not more "victims" speaking out? Is it because we know we've been scammed (cheated)?


----------



## taffy19

mplswjr said:


> In January, we vacatoioned in PV/NV and were told that the former Belaire located in the PV Marina area (not the Belair Collection in NV) had "morphed" into "U Resorts" on the same old site. Admittedly, this is hearsay, but the best info I can offer.
> Bill


The Belair Collection looks like a very nice resort. We went by there several times on a bus to Buccerias. We never made it to the "U Resort" this year even though we went to the old marina several times. It was too hot to walk to there from the marina during the day. We took a cab once but decided not to do it this year as everything still looks the same according to some local people.

I feel very bad for the people who purchased here and didn't get their money back. i remember that someone started a separate forum for the people who had bought at the Belaire but I don't know if it is still active? Does anyone know?


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resortand Spa*

On March 1, 2012 Mexico passed a law that allows for class action lawsuits. To file al law suit there has to be at least 30 people being a party to the suit.The lawsuit against Belaire has been filed and  at this time there is 30 people, maybe more, who are part of this suit. The lawyers are asking for no money up front and if they win they would take 20 percent of the settlement. My wife and I are part of this suit and we gave  the power of attorney so that our name would be on this suit.
I do not know how this will all come out butI just hope for the best


----------



## Karen G

Archie583 said:


> My wife and I are part of this suit and we gave  the power of attorney so that our name would be on this suit.
> I do not know how this will all come out butI just hope for the best


Can people contact you if they wish to be a part of this? If Tuggers wanted to contact you, they can click on your name on the left and send you a private message. That would be better than posting your email or phone number on this public forum.

Best wishes for a successful outcome. Please let us know what happens.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

iconnections said:


> The Belair Collection looks like a very nice resort. We went by there several times on a bus to Buccerias.



I don't believe there is any connection between the Belair in Riviera Nayarit and the old Belaire (now "u") in the Marina.


----------



## taffy19

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I don't believe there is any connection between the Belair in Riviera Nayarit and the old Belaire (now "u") in the Marina.


They are not connected as that was mentioned in post #749 that I quoted in my post.  No comparison.  

I still feel very bad for the people who trusted the word of the developer of that skeleton building.  It may stand there forever just like another never finished structure in the marina area.


----------



## taffy19

Archie583 said:


> On March 1, 2012 Mexico passed a law that allows for class action lawsuits. To file al law suit there has to be at least 30 people being a party to the suit.The lawsuit against Belaire has been filed and  at this time there is 30 people, maybe more, who are part of this suit. The lawyers are asking for no money up front and if they win they would take 20 percent of the settlement. My wife and I are part of this suit and we gave  the power of attorney so that our name would be on this suit.
> I do not know how this will all come out butI just hope for the best


This is good to know for more victims who were not aware of the other private group (owners) and they may read it here.

What I don't understand is that the bond, that the developer had to put up, before starting the project, didn't cover the completion of the project.  When we mentioned this to a well known resort during a presentation, they told us that this is law in Mexico.

I hope for the best with the class action lawsuit but most seem to favor the class action lawyers and not the people in the class action lawsuit.  RCI is an example in the USA.  I hope that it will be different in Mexico.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

iconnections said:


> T_R_Oglodyte said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe there is any connection between the Belair in Riviera Nayarit and the old Belaire (now "u") in the Marina.
> 
> 
> 
> They are not connected as that was mentioned in post #749 that I quoted in my post.  No comparison.
> 
> I still feel very bad for the people who trusted the word of the developer of that skeleton building.  It may stand there forever just like another never finished structure in the marina area.
Click to expand...

But I think it can be quite confusing to many readers to suddenly start talking about the Belair resort in thread that has about 750 posts about issues involving the Belaire resort.  I think many readers will not catch the distinction, especially after they've waded through pages and pages of posts.


----------



## PamF

This thread has been very very quiet. 

Anyone been down in PV and seen or heard anything?

  or just more of the same


----------



## malmack

*Hotel U site visit*

Hi Pam, I visited the site on 08/07/12.  There was no visible change in construction of the tower since my previous site visit on 02/05/10.  Nor was there any visible change to the entrance since my previous site visit on 09/28/11.


----------



## Archie583

*Belaire Golf Resort & Spa*



PamF said:


> This thread has been very very quiet.
> 
> Anyone been down in PV and seen or heard anything?
> 
> or just more of the same



Just received a update from the lawyer who is handling the class action suit against Belaire/Hotel U. It seems all the preliminary work has been done and the courts have accepted the suit. The lawyer indicates that they are now in the "Discovery" process of the lawsuit. It seems quite a number of Belaire owners have signed up for the lawsuit.


----------



## malmack

*Site Visit*



PamF said:


> This thread has been very very quiet.
> 
> Anyone been down in PV and seen or heard anything?
> 
> or just more of the same



On September 21st I went to the site and met with Mario Zargatori, not sure of the spelling of the last name as he didn’t carry business cards.  He represented himself as the Hotel attorney and part owner.  He stated that my 1 bedroom time share was now worth 6 times what I paid 5 years ago however I would have to convert my time share to Hotel U for an additional fee of 80% of my original cost.  Hotel U members would have priority.  I declined and he said that he would have to report my denial as choosing to terminate my membership.
The restaurant has been closed to the public; there were 2 attendants at the hair salon but no customers.  They have removed most of the blue window glass from the 2nd floor.  Mario stated that they are going to change the shape of the exterior to a square design and enclose the 2nd floor with solid walls for the casino.  There was no construction activity.  He stated that the workers and furnishings were coming from Monterey in two weeks.  Note their July newsletter said they were coming in one week.
I also met with one of the attorneys from the law firm that is processing the class action lawsuit.  He has an office in Puerto Vallarta and speaks English.  The attorney also mentioned that it is not a Mexican law to pay a 10% upfront fee to sell your timeshare.  
You may contact me at malmack@pacbell.net and I will provide his contact information.


----------



## davgel1

*BelAire Resort and Spa Cabo San Lucas*

Ok,  I am hearing lots of negative info on the BelAire Collection does this apply to Cabo?  I will be staying there in a few weeks and I am concerned I will not enjoy my stay. What do you guys recommend? Should I cancel or have a back-up plan and book at another resort?


----------



## Karen G

davgel1 said:


> Ok,  I am hearing lots of negative info on the BelAire Collection does this apply to Cabo?  I will be staying there in a few weeks and I am concerned I will not enjoy my stay. What do you guys recommend? Should I cancel or have a back-up plan and book at another resort?


I don't believe the one in Cabo is the same company as the one in Puerto Vallarta.  Go and have fun! Don't buy from the developer while you're there.


----------



## acaseyc

Here's the lawyers posting with phone and email for anyone wanting action against Belaire/Hotel U"  http://belairepvclassaction.blogspot.mx/2011/10/call-for-class-action-vs-bel-aire.html


----------



## PamF

Weird that the blog was created in October 2011 and nothing more posted.

Similar to the whole Belaire scam.  Is this guy and the lawsuit legit or just another black hole.


----------



## brucecz

PamF said:


> Weird that the blog was created in October 2011 and nothing more posted.
> 
> Similar to the whole Belaire scam.  Is this guy and the lawsuit legit or just another black hole.



If I was betting IMHO I would guess it MIGHT BE a black hole.

Bruce


----------



## malmack

*Buyers be aware!!*

Buyers be aware, there are 2 firms from Guadalajara who have access to your contract info and claim to be able to provide you with restitution of your funds.  They are the "Mexico Advocate Team" and lately "Juridico Providencia - Fraud Investigation Unit of Mexico".  They both claim that they have access to the seized assests of the Belaraire/Hotel U developers.  They most likely are in cahoots with the people of Hotel U. They both emailed to me an info sheet, Confidentiality Agreement and Signature Form to be part of the restitution. The 3 forms are identical word for word, except for the address and signature.


----------



## acaseyc

*More of the same only new name*

See the latest website about Hotel U/Belaire at http://www.uvallarta.com/index.html

This would be funny if it were not for all the folks duped by this group.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

acaseyc said:


> See the latest website about Hotel U/Belaire at http://www.uvallarta.com/index.html
> 
> This would be funny if it were not for all the folks duped by this group.



I walked by the resort a month ago. Doesn't look at all like the picture, considering that it's just a steel frame from the second floor up.

Progress was being made, though, truth be told.  There were two guys working on site (trying to) install glass.  And what appeared to be escalators inside plastic wrap were laying on the ground in front of the building.


----------



## pammex

Last I was there in Feb of this year, the glass had actually been removed or was in process of such...so actually not building but unbuilding...aye aye


----------



## PamF

Well now more time has gone on.  My dear Father died in December; never able to go to or enjoy this supposed fractional ownership resort.  After bilking him and my Mother for thousands and thousand and thousands of dollars!

Now a "Latin America Strategic Law Firm" of Larken and Larken has contacted my Mother.  Now they claim they can help her recover some of the money.

I believe this is just another scam.  

Anyone else get contacted by this place.  The documents are signed by Danny Martinez/Attorney at Law.  I am telling Mom to ignore this and just write off all the money they lost.  It's a shame that the last 5 years they couldn't afford to go to Mexico because they sold one of their timeshares to these thieves to make the down payment on Belaire.  I pleaded with them not to but the salesmen were quite convincing.  I HATE IT!


----------



## lex2233

*More Belaire/HotelU scams-Mexico Advocate Group & Mexican Federal Fraud Investigation*

I've been contacted by Larken & Larken also.  I told them my attorney requested written documentation to be mailed to me and have not received anything.

I've also received 3 forms from both "Mexico Advocate Group" and "Mexican Federal Fraud Investigation Unit".  Except for a signatures and the names/logos/addresses - everything is the same. I asked Mexico Advocate to send hard-copy written forms through mail last November 2012 and have not received anything.  Looks like a scam to me.

All 3 said they have seized assets and can recover my money - I just need to sign and return the forms emailed to me.


----------



## cmdrbob

Has any one been contacted by the law firm Larken and Larken in Mexico City, or any other law firm, in regards to getting funds from the Mexican Fraud fund? And if so have they received any monies?


----------



## johnaureliocuda

Belaire- U Resort are the same, just as Antonio Copela (which I'm 100% sure is not his real name, he doesn't even have a legal US passport) and Allan Dale are the same person.

All they did was create a new corporation owned by "Antonio Copela's" wife and daughter (Linda Tomasello and Brianna Tomasello) and took advantage of this simulating a transaction, in reality this guy is still running the business backstage. 

They spend thousands of dollars of your money every month paying the rent of their luxurious condo's in the Icon Towers (tower one and two) in puerto vallarta,  they also drive these amazing cars(mecedes benz suv, lincoln navigator, hummer h2, honda Accord coupe among others) and live the great life in mexico, threatining evert person that works or has ever worked for them.

I will attempt to get more information for you, I know by posting this my life could be in danger, but I'm just sick of these people doing whatever they want either to nice honest american and mexican people.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Copela's real name is John Aurelio Cuda, therfore the username.


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## Daniela Compton

Hey Folks, I just got news that they finally caught Antonio Copela and Jonathan J. Tomasello, http://miradainformativa.com/2013/1...ses-detenidos-por-cometer-un-presunto-fraude/,  there is a lot of people that got  wrapped up in there scam, sadly just like I did, A bunch of people and  such as myself are organizing to take a collective action against them, we´re going to a law firm in Puerto Vallarta, called Connell & Associates http://www.mexicolaw.com.mx/es, they are all English spoken so there´s no problem in not knowing Spanish.  So the more people we have the better, if you want to join get in contact with them and they’ll put you in the group. We are finally going to get justice done.


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## acaseyc

*latest views*

Apparently, Antonio Copela is out on bail and is at Puta Vista Signature Residences.........meeting with Belaire Members to shift them to the Signature Timeshare...maybe in hopes of clearing rights to the Belaire poroperty so it could be sold????  http://puntavistasignature.com/


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## cmdrbob

Daniela Compton said:


> Hey Folks, I just got news that they finally caught Antonio Copela and Jonathan J. Tomasello, http://miradainformativa.com/2013/1...ses-detenidos-por-cometer-un-presunto-fraude/,  there is a lot of people that got  wrapped up in there scam, sadly just like I did, A bunch of people and  such as myself are organizing to take a collective action against them, we´re going to a law firm in Puerto Vallarta, called Connell & Associates http://www.mexicolaw.com.mx/es, they are all English spoken so there´s no problem in not knowing Spanish.  So the more people we have the better, if you want to join get in contact with them and they’ll put you in the group. We are finally going to get justice done.


Hi Daniela, We also were taken buy Belaire. Is it possible to still join your group at the law firm or have completed the action against the scammers? What were you quoted for fees from the law firm? Has anyone been contacted by Signature Club Premier with an offer to buy back Belaire membership?


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## Ty1on

Sorry to revive this ancient thread, but I couldn't find this news posted.  John Aurelio Cuda, AKA Antonio Copella, is serving in US federal prison to the completion of the sentence from which he escaped before heading to PV with his brother and launching this magnificent scam.  I would presume he will be remanded back to Mexican authorities when his sentence is completed in 2017.

http://insidethegate.com/gatehouse/2014/03/california-usa-timeshare-news-march-29-2014-2/

Sorry to all of you who got scammed for considerable money.


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## Karen G

Thanks for posting this information. It's good to know that the bad guys have been caught and punished. Hope they find the missing brother.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Karen G said:


> Thanks for posting this information. It's good to know that the bad guys have been caught and punished. Hope they find the missing brother.



In PV at the Marina a few weeks ago.  DW and I always make note of the steel frame skeleton that was supposed to be Bel-Air.  I always smile when I think of how much it must have pained them to actually lay out money to get carry the scam at least that far.  

Riding on the bus I remember commenting to some people who got on board near Velas Vallarta, near the Bel-Air.  I commented about the Bel-Air scam, and it turned they had been victimized for about $500k, and they had recently received the "Hotel U" conversion offer, which would have required them to pony up a significant amount of additional money.  And they were actually considering it.

I asked them how they knew that they weren't being scammed again, and they couldn't answer.  Playing on their anger, I posed to them the thought that didn't it make perfect sense for scammers like the Copellas to concoct another scheme such as the Hotel U story to hit up their victims again?  And it was like a light bulb went on in their heads.


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## Karen G

Thanks for your post, Steve. I surely hope those folks you talked with on the bus didn't fall victim again to the scam.


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## taffy19

Karen G said:


> Thanks for your post, Steve. I surely hope those folks you talked with on the bus didn't fall victim again to the scam.


I hope so too.  We met one couple a few years ago who were also scammed and doubt that they got any money back.  How awful!


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Karen G said:


> Thanks for your post, Steve. I surely hope those folks you talked with on the bus didn't fall victim again to the scam.



I don't think they did.  By the way, that conversation occurred about four or five years ago, not this last trip.


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## cmdrbob343

*Belaire PV scam*

Has anyone been contacted by Alberto  Garcia from the Division Federal EAVE about getting your money back from the assets seized from the crooks?


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## PamF

Yes, my mother was contacted. Believe he is just another scammer. Talks about having to pay taxes on this piece of nothing. There is discussion on this in the forum redweek


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## T_R_Oglodyte

cmdrbob343 said:


> Has anyone been contacted by Alberto  Garcia from the Division Federal EAVE about getting your money back from the assets seized from the crooks?





PamF said:


> Yes, my mother was contacted. Believe he is just another scammer. Talks about having to pay taxes on this piece of nothing. There is discussion on this in the forum redweek


With apologies to Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop:

This is the scam that doesn't end. It just goes on and on, my friend. Some people started the fraud, knowing that they could. And they'll continue scamming folks forever just because this is the scam that doesn't end.  It just goes on and on my friend .....  

Warning! If you click on the link you might not be able to get the tune out of your head.


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