# [5/2009] Raintree vacation club



## itgrafix

Does membership to Raintree Vacation Club (all their resorts) seem like a good deal or not?

I'm contemplating upgrading and was told that I would have to get a whole new membership, and I'm not very clear as to if that means purchasing it for a lot of money. 

If anyone knows about this ownership please get back to me.


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## rlblack

We have membership in the Raintree Vacation Club. A good deal?  Maybe, maybe not- depending on amount a person normally spends- 

Well, we enjoy the Mexican resorts, we can get flexible size units depending on  when we travel and our needs- we normally plan ahead and have not had too much trouble getting in, where and when we want to go.  

I have found the management in Texas, responsive to any complaints the few we have had.  And changed some things to accomodate their members.

They continue to associate with other resorts- but have found that the key to it all is either planning far in advance-  or short notice.  The only real complaint I have is that we do not have  the ability to reserve on line- have to call in- and it is not a full RCI membership - so we have to call in for trades.  It does not appear that we have any ability to have a on going search- but that could be the representatives I have talked with.

Bottom line-  we enjoy the Mexican Resorts- so if you enjoy where you go- guess it is a good deal for us.


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## sjuhawk_jd

I also own two contracts with Raintree. Lack of being able to book online is a major issue. Lot of reps are "Snappy" on the phone. you can book 1 year in advance, but you have to call 365 days before exactly. So, if you want to reserve a saturday check in resort, 365 days in advance, you have to be available near a phone on a Saturday morning to get your desirable week (such as prime summer in Mountain areas or prime ski weeks).


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## itgrafix

*RVC*

I only have Cancun and a couple of other resorts to trade to without exchange but I see they have 21 resorts and when I went to Cancun last year - concierge set up a breakfast, but it was too early and I declined and then she said at noon.. but when I asked for what I finally found out it's to upgrade my account. I finally just said no, since the first week I was sick. 

I'm not clear how much it will be to upgrade and from the sounds of it seems like should just leave it the way it is... Are the other resorts good?

Can they really be exchanged into RCI points? Do you know and can you trade to Europe?

Thanks for replies, look forward to more info.


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## Bill4728

Please be aware that there are several different kinds of ownerships within the "raintree system. 

There are fixed week owners at a single resort, floating weeks and then point-based ("gem based" weeks). This makes Raintree pretty confusing to most people here on TUG. 

Good luck getting the info you need.


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## boatnut

Hi  TGRAFIX, I now have four units within the Raintree Club. Been studying Raintree for last 6 months. As Bill said, there are numerous ways to "own" within the system. Bottom line is it all comes down to how many points you have. I bought my first deeded unit that came with a  "platinum" level membership (80,000 points)for $2,500. Everybody here said: Good deal.  I was _*given*_ my next deeded unit at no charge. It was a 130,000 point membership. Better deal. I just bought a 160,000 point, week 13 (holiday week) at Whistler,deeded, for $3,000. They were asking $12,000!! 
 My point is that you can "upgrade" for ridiculously low dollars so long as you are ok with the maintenance fees. What do you want? Where do you want to go? How many people? This will determine how many points you need. As an aside, the maintenance fees for any of the Mexico locations and or pure RVC points are WAY higher than owning elsewhere within their system.


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## Corman

I too have experienced the snotty attitude from the representatives on the phone. How dare we trouble them  
 As far as the club is concerned, we purchased after market and we haven't regretted it . I wish we had the ability to book online instead of having to phone in.


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## karma23

*Raintree good deal?  NOT! New Assessment*

Following the thread asking whether membership in Raintree is a good deal.  Absolutely not in my opinion.  We've been members (originally with Westin Regina) for over 10 years.  We orginally purchased one "Gold" week and one "Silver" week.  At that time, the Gold week was good for all Westin/Regina resorts anytime except during Christmas week.  Our buy-in was over $21K and annual maintenance was $700.

Since then, Regina merged with (or was acquired by) Raintree Vacation Club. Our maintenance has increased to $1170 and our weeks devalued.  We had one assessment and just received another assessment (received today).  Raintree is requesting (demanding) an additional $1170 along with a legal document that the ADDITIONAL $1170 MUST BE PAID BEFORE making any reservations to use our paid weeks.  Our maintenance is current through 2009.  

We now have one week deposited with RCI, one week from last year that we didn't use, and two weeks that we paid for this year.  Conveniently, this note came out in June before people could use their weeks set aside for summer vacation.

This is Extortion!   I can't believe this is legal.

_Statement deleted--ads not permitted on this forum._


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## geoand

Have been an owner since 2000 or 2001.  My experiences with the RVC counselors have always been positive.  They have been polite, courteous, and helpful.

In addition, my week has been upgraded both in gem level and in points value since I have owned it.

I use my week within Raintree and always receive a minimum of 2 weeks of 2br unit for my 1 week of 2br unit.  I travel to the sun during the winter.

I couldn't be happier with my ownership.

Maintenance fees?  Yes, they have gone up.


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## MrD1

*Geo*

So Geo,
How happy are you now that Raintree has just emailed their new Special Assessment charge to members? Read what they are doing with the money- the same s**t they are supposed to be doing with the hefty annual maintenance fees they charge us. The truth is Raintree is utterly and completely mismanaged and now they want good paying members to pay for their incompetence.
TO ANYONE THINKING OF BUYING A RAINTREE VACATION CLUB MEMBERSHIP: RUN LIKE HELL AWAY OR YOU ARE SCREWED FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!


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## itgrafix

*wow I guess I will not upgrade at all*

I already own in Cancun, but I guess I will avoid their presentation on upgrading my membership for all their 22 resorts.

Seems many of you are not happy with it and I just unloaded my Wyndham rather impulsively now I have got better offers on it from others, ugh  now I will resort to trying to rid myself of this one as well after I go to Cabo and then hopefully just rent or go anywhere I please.

I like the idea of timeshare but it seems so complicated and now I have weeks deposited with RCI that I can't understand how to use well to get to Austraila or New Zealand.. now I'd be happy to sell my weeks to someone since I'm not interested to go anywhere but NZ or Austraila at this point.

I've spent well over $4000 for these, so if anyone wants a couple weeks let me know.

As for Raintree I will just let it be, I haven't heard about SA but I don't have any other resort so I'm sure they would've let me know by now.

Thanks all for your help.


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## thegortons

*SA for all Raintree owners?*

So does anyone know whether this new special assessment is only for certain resorts (like the old Club Regina ownerships) or is it being assessed on all Raintree Vacation Club owners?

Thanks


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## geoand

MrD said:


> So Geo,
> How happy are you now that Raintree has just emailed their new Special Assessment charge to members? Read what they are doing with the money- the same s**t they are supposed to be doing with the hefty annual maintenance fees they charge us. The truth is Raintree is utterly and completely mismanaged and now they want good paying members to pay for their incompetence.
> TO ANYONE THINKING OF BUYING A RAINTREE VACATION CLUB MEMBERSHIP: RUN LIKE HELL AWAY OR YOU ARE SCREWED FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!



Sorry,

Haven't received any email or any other correspondence concerning a special assessment.  Can you post a copy of the email for all of us to see?

Is the special assessment for all members of RVC?  Is the special assessment for Club Regina members?

I checked the website and there is nothing on the website that discusses any special assessments.


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## PamMo

*SOME of us still like Raintree!*

I have a Raintree Platinum membership and am quite happy with it! We've always gotten the weeks we wanted and have thoroughly enjoyed our vacations at their resorts. I guess we've been lucky with them on the phone, because they've always been great to deal with. 

Unfortunately, their different memberships can be horrendously difficult to figure out. A lot of people don't know what they are selling (or what they own). We think Raintree is pretty flexible and have been able to make it work for us. It's great to have a nice "family" of resorts to go to without paying RCI exchange fees. We just have to plan ahead and we take advantage of their special offers.

We got our notice of the special assessment in the mail today - so it's on it's way if you don't have it already! I'm not thrilled about paying it, but I'll be happy to see the upgrades. I've been hit with special assessments from some of my other resorts in the last couple of years, some were much worse than Raintree's one year's MF amount. I'm wondering if more resorts won't need a special assessment in this economy? If a lot of owners default on their payments, and people cut back on their vacation time, lost revenue has got to be made up somewhere just to keep a resort running...


***The assessment came by snail mail and it looks like it's for all RVC. The upgrades are for 12 resorts (no Whistler resorts on the list, though). Mostly Mexico, but Birch Bay, Palm Springs, and Miner's Club are getting upgrades. The letter stated that you can go on their website to pay it, but there's nothing mentioned there yet.


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## geoand

I called Raintree and they told me that Whiskijack owners will not be getting the special assessment notice.

I have truly enjoyed my time within Raintree.  So far, I have not had the temptation to go outside of the RVC system.


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## CbearBBS

*Raintree "Special Assessment"*

I just received my $820.00 special assessment and agree with many of the perspectives expressed above. While the Raintree facilities have been pleasant to stay at in the past, the economics of the RVC/Club Regina relationship are making it less and less attractive. 
In my mind, there are three options on the table that can be taken to respond to the special assessment:
1. Consider your investment in the Club Regina/RVC a sunk cost and walk away. They can take your "asset" back and cancel your membership. It is hard to imagine they would have any recourse to one's credit rating given that the time share has been fully paid for.
2. We should encourage every Club Regina/RVC member to register their thoughts and feelings about the special assessment on this website and www.complaintsboard.com, and invite RVC/Regina "leadership" to review the comments and reconsider their decision and seek other sources of funding.
3. Pursue the class action lawsuit avenue...long and arduous, but perhaps the best way to recoup some of our investment.
One gets the sense that this organization is going down...and in my mind it would be foolish to, in all probability, throw good money after bad


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## itgrafix

*agree to do something about it*

I agree for complaints and would go in to do a class action lawsuit, I barely just got this and have only been once and it was not anything special and then got sick from their a/c system and couldn't go anywhere so... contact me through here or email.

I also have a reservation, does that mean I won't be able to go now?


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## bettelou

I received my assessment and will refuse to pay it.  I am not the government and am not bailing them out!  They do not have the right to make me cover their management errors!  I'm willing to do whatever it takes to refute this charge!


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## bettelou

Why don't Whiskijack owners have to pay the assessment???!!!


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## cdn_traveler

I'm sorry, can someone please clarify if the assessment is for members who own resorts in Club Regina or Raintree.    When is this assessment due?

I just checked my online account and other than an increase to $883 from last year's maintenance fee of $775 for year 2009/2010, I don't see anything about a special assessment for $820.

Sorry, I went back and re-read the thread.   Thank you PamMo for the clarification.   Guess I will be looking forward to this letter from Raintree.


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## PamMo

1. Consider your investment in the Club Regina/RVC a sunk cost and walk away. They can take your "asset" back and cancel your membership. It is hard to imagine they would have any recourse to one's credit rating given that the time share has been fully paid for.

_Read your contract. You agreed to pay maintenance fees. If you don't pay, they can (and will) report your nonpayment to a credit agency. What you paid for the 30-year (or remainder, if you bought resale) RTU contract is only part of the contract.  MF's are essential to running the property. That's true with ANY timeshare._

3. Pursue the class action lawsuit avenue...long and arduous, but perhaps the best way to recoup some of our investment.

_Realistically, no one would take this case, unless you want to pay a lawyer money up front. But what is the complaint? That you don't want to pay a special assessment for improvements - that RVC has the right to issue? Regardless, you will not recoup your initial "investment" for your timeshare purchase - especially if you bought from the developer. Hasn't TUG taught us all that "Timeshares are not financial investments!" _

One gets the sense that this organization is going down...and in my mind it would be foolish to, in all probability, throw good money after bad[/QUOTE]

_Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respectfully disagree._


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## jazzboat

*Raintree Special assement fee*

I agree with Karma23. This special assesment fee is outrageous. I have one week and they are charging me a $883 special assesment fee, therfore the cost of special asseement for 1 unit is $45,916 ($883 x 52 weeks). I could own a condo in Mexico for $45,916. Why aren't these items covered in the maintenence fee?


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## CbearBBS

*Other sources of information on special assessment*

I encourage all who are interested to go to: http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/raintree-c210535.html
There are a number of informative posts at that website relative to opposition of the Raintree "special assessment."


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## itgrafix

*what about if have a paid reservation?*

Can anyone tell me what may happen if I have a paid reservation for late August plus plane tickets that are not refundable.. what may happen if SA can't be paid? I definitely want to fight this because I got ill from their air conditioner on my stay last summer and had to take antibotics and vacation was cut short... this is just horrible

I am in no position to pay this at this time but have already paid them for the reservation and paid plane tickets earlier this year.


This is crazy and no warning at all!


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## sjuhawk_jd

*Raintree*



tgrafix said:


> Can anyone tell me what may happen if I have a paid reservation for late August plus plane tickets that are not refundable.. what may happen if SA can't be paid? I definitely want to fight this because I got ill from their air conditioner on my stay last summer and had to take antibotics and vacation was cut short... this is just horrible
> 
> I am in no position to pay this at this time but have already paid them for the reservation and paid plane tickets earlier this year.
> 
> 
> This is crazy and no warning at all!



You have nothing to worry about. They are not going to do anything to your vacation at this time. They are offering a 6 installment plan, with first installment starting in July. Even if you do not pay in July, it will not affect you August vacation.


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## StanCA

I have reposted some of these on 
http://www.raintreevacationclubsucks.com/

If anyone wants theirs removed please let me know.

The abuse Raintree - ClubRegina does needs to cease.


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## rsonc

*Raintree special assessment charge*

FYI 

Just got a notice from Raintree that they are charging a special assessment this year equal to your m/f. My sapphire account is $1106 and my gold is $820.00 ouch!! that is almost $2000 that I will need to pay out for this. 

They are offering a payment plan over 3 or 6 months and if you book anything in RCI Points they will match up to 100000 points until June 2011. They also said they will not allow it to be used for airline tickets via rci only resorts. 

I wish they would point match for something booked within club regina/raintree since I will have to pay RCI a fee to use any of their resorts or just give us the 50k points to use how we want. It is a nice offer and I know they don't have to do anything but it is also a lot of money for many people right now. 


Just wanted to give any owners a heads up that they are just now sending out the invoices. 

Susan 
Susan


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## Wonka

I'm "livid" about this assessment, didn't realize a string had already begun.

"Surprise" assessments happen as a result of poor planning.  With regular reserve studies and competent management, they shouldn't happen (other than a natural catastrophe).  This is the 3rd special assessment I've paid in the 10+ years I've owned a "Select" week (which is basically worthless for trading).


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## sjuhawk_jd

rsonc said:


> FYI
> 
> Just got a notice from Raintree that they are charging a special assessment this year equal to your m/f. My sapphire account is $1106 and my gold is $820.00 ouch!! ...
> 
> If I have every other year gold membership, then should my assessment be half of $820.


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## my7tvette

I pulled out my contract of purchase, we bought in Jan. 2000 and was reading the second paragraph of declaration 7. On my contract it states:

Non payment of the maintenance fees during 2 (two) consecutive years shall imply the cancellation of the MEMBERSHIP....

As was stated previously by other posters, their contracts have probably morphed significantly over the years, but this language doesn't seem to imply anything about a collections process.

Bottom line, I have been considering selling this thing for several years, but this "special" assessment is the final straw.

Wait, I was just reading earlier in the same declaration it states: "The buyer is obligated to cover the annual maintenance fees during the month of January each year. This fee can be increased or decreased in the same proportion as the items to which this fee are destined, and this information shall be furnished and justified to the buyer for his knowledge. In the event of default on punctual payment, a 5% charge will be made as well as moratorium interests at the rate of 2% per month, plus collection expenses, under the terms of Exhibit "B""

Conveniently, I can't locate any Exhibit "B" in the paperwork.


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## itgrafix

I don't even have a copy of my contract, it was never supplied to me by closing company or by resort so I have nothing to look over.

Isn't a RTU timeshare a membership which one can cancel anytime? I thought that is what was told to me so I have a dilemma in that I can't find a way to get my contract though I have contacted the guest relations and they said that the Mexico office is innudated with something.. she didn't elaborate what their office is going through and that a time frame of when I would get it is unknown.

So my next question is if the ownership is in Mexico and one is in the USA how does it work? I don't know anything about Mexico law but how can something from Mexico appear on US Credit Report? To my knowledge it can't... am very upset and willing to go in on class action lawsuit... follow the thread to complain and collectively maybe can get somewhere.

If anyone has some info for me please email me through here or send a message, thanks!


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## my7tvette

Seriously, anyone with practical advice on dumping this thing, please respond. Obviously, if I could recoup some of the $$ I've dumped into this thing, that would be great, but at this point I would practically pay someone to take it. I have come to dread making our vacation plans. We always seem to be forced into a compromise between timing of the vacation and/or quality of the resorts. The fact that I am forced to make my reservations through Raintree, and unable to fully utilize RCI's website to search for resort availability, exacerbates that problem. Frankly, we bought the membership to "see the world", and it was foolish to buy a location that we were not willing to utilize on a regular basis. Again, any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening


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## CbearBBS

*Sources of advice relative to responding to the Raintree's "Special Assessment"*

There is much useful and authoritative information and advice on how members may deal with the "Special Assessment" fee being charged to Raintree vacation club members. It is important to read and take action in order to have any hope of generating sufficient groundswell to to cause RVC to reconsider their drastic and untimely measure. GO TO: http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/raintree-c210535.html
Please pass this on to as many members as you think might be interested.
Time is of the essence.


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## SUAVEJ

*Raintree*

RVC is having a problem with a group of people they took money from for villas they were to built in Cabo but not only did they not build them the money was used to pay off debt. The s/a might be a way to raise money for it's current legal problem.


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## TimeShare Junky

SUAVEJ said:


> RVC is having a problem with a group of people they took money from for villas they were to built in Cabo but not only did they not build them the money was used to pay off debt. The s/a might be a way to raise money for it's current legal problem.



The whole Mexican timeshare experience is turning into a nightmare
I bought Belaire Golf Resort PV., and 3 years have passed, no building and the one that was started has one floor for Parking, Lobby and rooms with over 800 contracts.


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## itgrafix

*any info or phone*

If anyone can tell me how to find out the laws and what my rights are in terms of terminating the contract that I do not have in my possession because I am not the original purchaser, it would mean a lot to me.

Also who does one contact about finding out if the reservation is gauranteed valid if made a year ago? I have reservations late August and would like to know that once off the plane I have a place to stay at but where can I verify this?


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## itgrafix

*Got short reply from Bech*

I got a reply from Bech  "Thank you for your response and I understand you being upset. Additional information will be provided. Thank you" 

So who knows what the additional information is ....


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## elaine67

*Raintree Vacation Club Specisl Assesment*

Two days ago I received a $1, 350 assessment fee for 2009. Needless to say I was outraged. Obviously, Mr. Bech must live in his own little world as he seems to be oblivious to the economic disaster that this nation is in and most of us are experiencing.

I have been a RVC(Club Regina) member since 1995. I too was promised the vacation experience of a lifetime with very little increase in Maintenance Fees. 
Boy was a taken in. I used to exchange resorts thru RCI. Now, you have to go thru RVC and is difficult to make exchanges to my liking.

I have all my paperwork from the start and nowhere does it say anything about any assessment. They said all maintenance work was taken care of from our yearly MF.

I am now very suspicious as to the amount of money from MF that actually went to repairing the resorts. I would like to know how we as members can get
accounting records and make Mr. Bech and his company accountable for every penny of our money. It seems to me this is turning into a big scam and I would also like to get involved in a class -action suit.

I do not have any intention to pay this fraudulent assessment fee.

Please keep me posted and hope we can all work together to make RVC accountable for their actions.


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## Corman

I suspect most of you are going to think that I am nuts, but here it goes.

 I am not thrilled with idea of having to pay a special assessment, but if it is going to make a noticable difference in the look and feel for me as an owner and increase the trade value then I guess I can live with it. All I can say is look at marriots maintenance fees, they are huge and you can see the quality in thier units. You get what you pay for. I just want to see a difference if I have to pay this.


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## MrD1

*Raintree Special Assessment*

Corman
The real issue as far as I can tell with my own view, as well as dozens of other members that I have heard their point of view, is that the money is only part of the issue. The other, bigger issue is what gives the leadership of Raintree the right to do this? Since they do not disclose any financials about where the regular maintenance fees go, we have a situation of zero accountability in tems of management behavior and spending. Did they misspend this years maintenance fees and are short of money? Did the executives of RVC grant themselves huge pay raises or bonuses? Did they over-extend themselves by buying those additional -2nd rate- resorts earlier this year? Did they make some bad deals or get ripped off doing any of their stated "remodels" going on? Are there some offshore accounts being funded illegally? The answer to ALL of those questions and many more is a big: WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE RAINTREE DISCLOSES NOTHING TO IT'S MEMBERS. And they have purposely set it up that way by the way. In so many ways they are not subject to the usual laws that U.S. companies have to follow. 

Additionally, since none of our contracts apparently have any clause about Special Assessments nor any other right for RVC to charge anything above the basic maintenance fee, Raintree has no right or legal standing to charge this fee. Threatening to suspend one's membership for non payment of this Special Assessment is literally nothing but pure casebook extortion. There is no other way to color this. 

In the end, my prediction is the short-sightedness of Raintree's leadership is going to bring this company to its end. Instead of working WITH its members about what the real issues are, they take a dictatorial stand and DEMAND money from members without any legal right to do so. Unless Raintree backs down from this issue, the longterm effect of this will likely be an almost complete inability to sell more memberships. Which means they will have to raise their maintenance fees even more and do more of these Special Assessments. Are you ready for that? 
For me, this is the line in the sand that we must draw now.


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## CbearBBS

*Action against the Raintree Special Assessment*

There are a lot of action ideas being suggested, and taken, at http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/210535/page/1
So far there are over 5 pages of considered opinion on this topic at that site. I urge everyone to review the ideas and take their own steps to fight this fee. There have been over 1300 viewings of this TUG site. That is a step toward building critical mass. Addresses and verbiage for filing complaints against Raintree with the Texas Attorney General's office, the FTC, and the Better Business Bureau are contained at the complaintsboard site listed above.


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## rbarre

*Raintree "Special Assessment"*

The Bylaws and Regulations that I have from my purchase at Club Regina in Los Cabos do not mention even the possibility of a "special assessment" fee. The only fee mentioned is the annual "service fee", which most call an annual maintenance fee.  I paid my annual service fee for this year, and by my contract with Club Regina I will demand my "right to use" this year. When I pay next year, and any year to the end of my contract, I will expect all the benefits I paid for. RVC seems to think otherwise. By instituting a "special assessment" at mid-year this year they imply that if I do not pay this "special assessment" I will not be able to use the resort, now or ever again. They are treating this "special assessment" as an annual service fee, but there is no contractual agreement for such. How does this come about? 
Really, RVC needs $$$. Their past funding practices in this economy no longer work, and their delays of needed maintenance and capital improvements has caught up with them. Guaranteed, that member maintenance fees have been misappropriated. Why would any good company wait till now when the economy is racked to demand a hurried mid-year "special assessment"? Or, look at it this way. The extra payment of $820/week by any member is $42,640 per year per unit. Has anyone stayed in a RVC resort that needs this extra amount of upkeep help? Keep in mind the increasing annual maintenance fee is still extant. 
I am now very uncomfortable with this timeshare. I see what has become commonplace in corporate America--serious financial problems without honest disclosure.
To date I have lost $22,322 to timeshares in Mexico. I certainly do not want to add to this total. Fortunately RVC has a presence in the good old USA. My advice is to protest this fee in everyway you can. There are addresses for the Atty General of TX, and the BBB in Houston in this web, use them to complain. 
If this company was honest enough to disclose the truth I might be considerate, but under these circumstances I will resist.
Finally, let me emphasize that all my stays at the Club Regina Resorts in Mexico have been wonderful. These are really fine upscale resorts. My complaint is with the arrogance of a management that seems to think they can on a whim demand $$$ from the membership yet ignore existing obligations.


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## itgrafix

*I've sent emails...*

I spoke to Kristen at Member Services and brought up the complaint about not getting these surveys but she kept saying how members want these upgrades and I expressed that I really don't care for marble in the bathtub, I don't even have it at home. In any case, she told me that if it wasn't paid I wouldn't be able to use membership, which for me, at this point is fine, I didn't have a great time in Mexico and the unit wasn't that great to begin with. They should of thought to update the jacuzzi tub on the balcony because that needed an update for sure, in any case, what I want to know is will not paying the SA and the MF following mean what? I own VOC in Mexico only so what happens next? Is membership canceled and it goes back to them?


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## aleksir

Corman said:


> I suspect most of you are going to think that I am nuts, but here it goes.
> 
> I am not thrilled with idea of having to pay a special assessment, but if it is going to make a noticable difference in the look and feel for me as an owner and increase the trade value then I guess I can live with it. All I can say is look at marriots maintenance fees, they are huge and you can see the quality in thier units. You get what you pay for. I just want to see a difference if I have to pay this.



I just found out about the special assessment yesterday when I wanted to reserve for 2010.  Of course I had not received any notice about it yet, but I was emailed the letter.  I'm Club Regina, bought 2nd hand, and of course have never received the contract I've requested from Mexico.

On the other hand, I've heard of special assessments on TUG from other owners/groups.  It was not a total surprise but I agree with many that I was not surveyed (maybe reasons people give to not buy?) and have no insight into where the money goes.  I will pay it, but will count it as an unexpected expense.  One of the reasons I bought this unit was it was a RTU 2026 and I figured I invested into a 21 year experience, unless I sell on ebay first.  

Our experience with Club Regina has been good.  We've enjoyed all of the times we've visited, but Puerto Vallarta is our favorite.  I saw the 'upgraded' suite they are planning to go to, and I thought it takes away a lot of the Mexican ambiance.  The wireless in the room is something I will appreciate.



Here is the text of what I received via email.

June 2009
Dear Member,
You purchased your Membership to enjoy memorable vacations in high demand locations. At Raintree, our commitment is to deliver upscale resort properties to our Members. You have come to expect a certain standard from Raintree and we know that meeting that standard will help you enjoy your vacations more for years to come.

Over the years we have actively sought to keep your Annual Maintenance Fees as low as possible. Your maintenance fees cover the annual operating costs of the resorts and provide for emergency maintenance and other necessary capital projects. Unfortunately, continuously rising operating and energy costs have resulted in the deferral of various maintenance and upgrade matters that no longer can be nor should be deferred. Many of these deferred matters have been minor, but when viewed collectively, have not kept the resort properties at the standard that our Members desire.
These deferred matters include normal maintenance items, adding features that Members clearly desire, such as ‘in‐room’ wireless internet capability, and updating furnishings, bedding and kitchenware. Despite the fact that we have spent approximately $6 million on improvements during 2007 and 2008, the rooms and units require additional work to bring them to the standard that you expect from Raintree.

You have expressed your concerns and requests for improvement and we have taken your feedback seriously. Raintree has spent a considerable amount of time analyzing the specific items that need to be addressed immediately so that the resort properties and amenities will be at the standard that you expect and demand. We have derived a plan to address these matters but it has required a very difficult decision on our part on how to fund these needed improvements.

The decision we faced included either materially increasing your Maintenance Fees over the next few years, or a onetime assessment to our Members to fund and implement the needed improvements as soon as possible. The feedback we have received is that many of you want these improvements sooner rather than later so we have elected to have a Special Assessment.
We know the timing of this assessment is not optimal, but it never will be. Our Members overwhelmingly desire these improvements to our resorts now, so this Special Assessment is necessary for implementation.

Some of the improvements we plan to undertake are:
RAINTREE'S CLUB REGINA CANCUN
RAINTREE'S CLUB REGINA PUERTO VALLARTA
install wireless internet in units
install wireless internet in units
replace bedding in all bedrooms
replace bedding in all bedrooms
complete kitchen renovation
complete kitchen renovation
replace tile in shower areas with marble
insulate cold water pipes
replace all ceiling fans
beach security system (Buoy)
replace lounge chairs and cushions
swimming pool filter equipment
renovate Pool Bar and add improvements to Inizio Restaurant
new umbrellas for pool area
replace all pool area lounge chair cushions

RAINTREE'S VILLA VERA ACAPULCO
install wireless internet in units

RAINTREE'S CLUB REGINA LOS CABOS
replace bedding in all bedrooms
install wireless internet in units
replace ice machines
replace bedding as needed
paint building exterior
complete kitchen renovation
replace A/C thermostats in all rooms
refinish nightstands, coffee table and end tables
replace boiler and hot water tank
paint building exterior
purchase flat panel TVs for each unit
add marble top to all nightstands
reupholster furniture (all rooms)
in room safe for each unit
replace curtains (all rooms)
replace night stand lamp (all rooms)
replace lounge chairs as needed
replace all lounge chair cushions

In addition to the above, other items within this project include significant improvements to infrastructure at most resorts for preventative maintenance purposes as well as to continue to meet safety standards.
Included with this letter is your special assessment notice. Please read it carefully as you have choices on how to remit payment.
Sincerely
Douglas Bech
CEO, Raintree Resorts International, LLC
To contact a Raintree Vacation Guide, please call: 1.800.424.6532 / 317.805.9167


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## TimeShare Junky

So to complete each unit at an average of 900 would be 48,800 for
each unit. I do not see how that can be for the items on that list. 

You have the low labor costs in Mexico.


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## itgrafix

*Join our list*

Timeshare Junky,

join our list to make a formal complaint to RVC go to 

 

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/raintree-c210535.html?sort=dated&page=1


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## rlblack

My opinion is, Raintree did not anticipate the extreme negative response from their members- since when the first "special assessment" happened- it was for an "act of nature"- a hurricane. I think most of us felt that was a justifiable assessment, and did not complain. This assessment, with the lists   "improvements"   appear to be on-going maintenance items.

If members that are opposed to the special assessment have not written, my suggestion would be to register your complaint- directly to Doug Bech dybech@raintreeresorts.com.   - explaining how you feel the assessment is unjustified. 

I believe that due to the member response- and the email I received  from Mr. Bech also-  they are re-evaluating and will be issuing some change of policy.   

Although I believe the "special assessment" was not reasonable-   I think if members act reasonably- management will also. No one wins except lawyers when a lawsuit is flied.

Rlblack


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## POPESAYS

*RVC sham- how to get out?*



my7tvette said:


> Seriously, anyone with practical advice on dumping this thing, please respond. Obviously, if I could recoup some of the $$ I've dumped into this thing, that would be great, but at this point I would practically pay someone to take it. I have come to dread making our vacation plans. We always seem to be forced into a compromise between timing of the vacation and/or quality of the resorts. The fact that I am forced to make my reservations through Raintree, and unable to fully utilize RCI's website to search for resort availability, exacerbates that problem. Frankly, we bought the membership to "see the world", and it was foolish to buy a location that we were not willing to utilize on a regular basis. Again, any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for listening



You have expressed my sentiments exactly!  If you get ANY realistic advice on how to exit this timeshare at RVC, please forward to Buddy@Popesays.com


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## Blondie

I sent an email to Doug Bech and with two hours received a very nice and very quick reponse. I was annoyed that my assessment for and EOY unit was the same as for an annual unit. He replied to me and forwarded my message to Mr. John Berger and he responded too. They said they made a mistake in billing (yeh, right) and the EOY weeks should be billed half of the assessment. Further they vow (unless for a natural disaster) not to have another assessment for at least 10 years and to cap maint fees. I imagine we all be getting the newest letter at some point. They were very courteous and apologetic so I think they are listening to their angry public. I thought I'd never hear anything back from them since I'd emailed cust relations and have been ignored for a week. Keep your emails coming to Mr Bech...someone just may be listening


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## DanielKeeney

Hello folks. I am helping Raintree Vacation Club improve its communication with its Members. As others have posted, Raintree's leadership acknowledges that they really messed up by not providing more notice and giving Members greater insight into the financial challenges the Club is facing. We understand and appreciate the concerns expressed here and elsewhere. In response, flexible payment plans are offered for those who request them. I am not here to spam, defend or argue -- just to let you know Raintree has a new Web site, www.raintreelistens.com to provide answers and enable better connections between the Club and Members.


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## Corman

WOW, I wonder what got thier attention, the phone calls, emails or the threat of a class action lawsuit.


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## sjuhawk_jd

*Welcome to TUG*



DanielKeeney said:


> Hello folks. I am helping Raintree Vacation Club improve its communication with its Members. As others have posted, Raintree's leadership acknowledges that they really messed up by not providing more notice and giving Members greater insight into the financial challenges the Club is facing. We understand and appreciate the concerns expressed here and elsewhere. In response, flexible payment plans are offered for those who request them. I am not here to spam, defend or argue -- just to let you know Raintree has a new Web site, www.raintreelistens.com to provide answers and enable better connections between the Club and Members.



Welcome Daniel to the TUG. I am glad raintree is doing the right thing by understanding the power of the "Groundswell" and paying attention to the concerns, aspirations, and advise of its members.


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## cdn_traveler

*SA being withdrawn?*

Congratulations everybody!    Raintree has withdrawn the Special assessment!  

RVC owners that sent complaints and e-mails should give themselves a huge pat on the back.  :whoopie:


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## Blondie

That is not the message I received in my latest email from them. They are offering a more flexible payment plan as well as info regarding capping maint fees and the like. To what do you refer cdn-traveler?


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## quiltergal

You'd all better go read the message.  It says it will be revisited, with proof of how our MF dollars were spent and that that money is not enough to cover operating costs.  They're just delaying the inevitable.  Either we pay a SA or our annual MFs go up.  Don't think this is just going to go away.

From raintreelistens.com

Please note: In response to Member feedback, Raintree has withdrawn the Special Assessment. There were mistakes in the way it was communicated and Raintree apologizes for taking Members by surprise. The intention is to revisit the issue later this year after compiling information that will demonstrate clearly and unequivocally that Raintree has used the maintenance fee monies properly but they are insufficient to cover operating costs. We appreciate the excellent suggestions the Club has received from many of its Members and will incorporate these as we move forward.


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## Blondie

Now I am totally confused... I just received an email a few days ago that had another explanation regarding a flex payment plan and said new bills will be coming out. I guess that is good for now, but it concerns me that the leadership is so quick to  change financial strategies and that their knee jerk reactions to sending out the bills, then revamping them and then rescinding them signal a lack of direction. Who is in charge here...??


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## PamMo

I just spoke with member services at Raintree and they have definitely withdrawn the special assessment *completely *for right now. They have listened to owners' concerns and put it on hold indefinitely. It sounds like we will be getting more detailed information on exactly what they were trying to do and why, before they ask for a SA again. An email/snail mail regarding the cancellation of the SA is on the way.


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## Corman

what a GONG show!


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## sjuhawk_jd

*Assessment withdrawn*

Hats off to RVC and its members. First of all, I just came back from a stay at Raintree's flagship resort (Miner's club at the Canyons, Park City, Utah). What a resort! Top notch all the way, daily maid service, plush cotton gowns in two bedrooms, etc. More like Ritz Carlton/Four Seasons Fractional residences than a timeshare. Second, they repeal the special assessment and admit the mistakes made by the management in communicating the assessment with its members. 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Received this email today:

Dear Member,

Raintree has determined it is in the best interests of the Club and Members to withdraw the Special Assessment at this time. There were serious mistakes in the way it was communicated and we want to address the excellent suggestions the Club has received from many of its Members. Raintree's intention is to revisit the issue later this year, after compiling information that will demonstrate clearly and unequivocally that Raintree has used the maintenance fee monies properly but they are insufficient to cover operating costs.

We will issue refunds to Members who have already paid their Special Assessment.

We want and encourage Member input and are committed to doing a better job of keeping lines of communication open in the future.  Please visit our new site - www.RaintreeListens.com - for updates.


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## Zelda

PamMo said:


> 1. Consider your investment in the Club Regina/RVC a sunk cost and walk away. They can take your "asset" back and cancel your membership. It is hard to imagine they would have any recourse to one's credit rating given that the time share has been fully paid for.
> 
> _Read your contract. You agreed to pay maintenance fees. If you don't pay, they can (and will) report your nonpayment to a credit agency. What you paid for the 30-year (or remainder, if you bought resale) RTU contract is only part of the contract.  MF's are essential to running the property. That's true with ANY timeshare._
> 
> 3. Pursue the class action lawsuit avenue...long and arduous, but perhaps the best way to recoup some of our investment.
> 
> _Realistically, no one would take this case, unless you want to pay a lawyer money up front. But what is the complaint? That you don't want to pay a special assessment for improvements - that RVC has the right to issue? Regardless, you will not recoup your initial "investment" for your timeshare purchase - especially if you bought from the developer. Hasn't TUG taught us all that "Timeshares are not financial investments!" _
> 
> One gets the sense that this organization is going down...and in my mind it would be foolish to, in all probability, throw good money after bad



_Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respectfully disagree._[/QUOTE]

Most of the posts on here are a bit old.........
As of today Sept. 24, Raintree will be sending the Special Assessment out again before the end of the year......
We as a group have posted on the Complaints Board many , many pages of fact in the overleaveraging of Raintree and also the $26 million against Raintree and Starwood for the FRAUD leveled on the Villa owners.  They purchased their upgrade to the Villas that were to be built and the monies put into a escrow fund for construction.....and out of Doug Bech's (CEO of Raintree) own mouth...."they spent the monies on Sales Commissions and to pay down their enormous debt to Starwood.  They are very over leaveraged to several companies.
ANYONE THINKING OF BUYING INTO OR UPGRADING WITH RAINTREE OR WHATEVER THEY CHANGE THEIR NAME TO .....NEED TO RECONSIDER..........THEY ARE OVERLEAVERAGED AND HAVE MISAPPROPRIATED ALL THE MONIES THAT THEY HAVE COLLECTED OVER THE YEARS FOR MAINTENENCE ON THE PROPERTIES AND HAVE NO MONIES TO DO IT.  DO NOT FALL FOR THEIR...BS.....THAT THEY WILL FIX THESE PLACES UP...A FEW BANDAGES HERE AND THERE JUST AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH.   THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY HAVE COLLECTED FROM US OVER THE YEARS THESE PLACES SHOUD BE ONE OF THE BEST AROUND....

Speaking just for the Cabo property.....we have been members for 12 years....NOTHING has been upgraded for all those years....although each year at our "update" breakfast we have been "lied" to and told they are working on it this year.

Do not get involved with this management company....until there is complete transparency and honesty.   
(it could be a cold day in hell................)


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## Bodie

*Raintree Vacation Club*

As original owners of Club Regina, before RVC came in, I found it to be really quite nice.  In Cancun, the staff is friendly, environs clean, restaurant good and the bus system is great.  However, I would not buy now, nor would I upgrade.  Original owners did not pay a lot of money,  and are probably staying, but caveat emptor to those considering such a purchase. RVC is not a well run company, more like a Ponzi scheme. The RVC staff, by and large, do their best.   If you're considering a timeshare, stick with those that are operated by large hotel chains such as Marriott, Starwood, etc.  Yes, they are more expensive, but they are much better managed.  I really do love my Marriott timeshare.  As to whether or not to buy on the secondary market, it may or may not be worth it, depending on what is important to you.


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## CbearBBS

Beware...Raintree is now rated F by the Houston Better Business Bureau. Huge outcry over mismanagement, escalating maintenance fees, and an outrageous "special assessment"


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## PamMo

CbearBBS said:


> Beware...Raintree is now rated F by the Houston Better Business Bureau. Huge outcry over mismanagement, escalating maintenance fees, and an outrageous "special assessment"



A total of 50 complaints were made against Raintree in the last 3 years. 43 of those were in the last 12 months - when the special assessment (equal to one year MF's) came out. Almost all the complaints were over billing/contract disputes - not too surprisingly.


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## Spindoctor

*Raintree Drops WESTIN Facilities*

This is absolutely outrageous.  As if charging the special assessment was not eough, now Raintree has dropped members rights to use Westin facilities - ON PURPOSE.  You now have to pay for the gym, tennis court and must pay full price - cash only - at most of the restaurants and bars.  It has apparently gotten so bad at Puerto Vallarta that Westin has put up a fence to keep Club members out.

http://www.raintreelistens.com/en/art/67/

The same restrictions apply at Cancun and Cabo

http://www.raintreelistens.com/en/art/69/

http://www.raintreelistens.com/en/art/70/

And did "RAINTREE LISTENS" ask members for a response BEFORE dropping this?  NO.  They hid the fact that they were dropping this from members, did not solicit member comment and did not seek member approval.

The reason given for dropping Westin facilities? That "members" complained that it was too expensive.  Clearly, the "new" Raintree management is seeking to pad their own pockets at owners' expense.

If anyone has any address for listing complaints against Raintree, please post them.  Perhaps only if we convince no one to go to their facilities will this "management" team be fired and replaced with a team who has a member centric priority rather than a profit driven priority.


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## DanielKeeney

SpinDoctor: I help the team at Raintree communicate with Members and wanted to clarify a couple points. 

There are some misunderstandings and inaccurate information circulating regarding Raintree Vacation Club’s relationship with Starwood (owners of Westin). Until January, Raintree Vacation Club contracted with Starwood to provide property management services at the three Club Regina resort properties. That was the full extent of Raintree’s relationship with Starwood. Raintree did not own or otherwise control Starwood facilities or amenities -- so we did not take this access away from Members as you describe.

In 2009, after reporting to Members that expenses continued to exceed revenues for a third consecutive year, Raintree Members were united in encouraging dramatic cuts in expenses. And as you note, Members in large numbers did post on and through the Raintree Listens website encouraging the organization to do more to cut expenses to bring them in line with revenues. The single largest expense of Raintree Vacation Club was its contract with Starwood. In January, Raintree let its contract with Starwood expire and took over property management of the three Club Regina resort properties.

Raintree Vacation Club now manages and operates those properties as it does the majority of other resort properties that fly the Raintree banner. We believe that this move will provide savings and improve the level of service enjoyed by Members. Starwood responded by discontinuing some of the perks for Members -- but Members continue to have access to Starwood facilities at the same costs that hotel guests pay.

We really appreciate your input. Any Member can access www.raintreelistens.com for more information or to submit comments or questions to the organization.


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## Spindoctor

DanielKeeney said:


> Raintree Vacation Club now manages and operates those properties as it does the majority of other resort properties that fly the Raintree banner. We believe that this move will provide savings and improve the level of service enjoyed by Members. Starwood responded by discontinuing some of the perks for Members -- but Members continue to have access to Starwood facilities at the same costs that hotel guests pay.



REALLY?  Requiring members to now pay for perks that were part of the membership we paid for every year?  You call that a "benefit?"  Get real Keeney.  What you fail to state is that while members encourage cost savings, they never suggested, agreed to nor asked to have benefits cut for which they contracted when purchasing their time shares.  RVC has breached the original sales agreements with members- without consent or agreement.

What I can now expect from Raintree management of Cancun, PV and Cabo is the low-end managment I've found at Villa Vera resorts and the reason I will never return to a Villa Vera resort - They are 3rd class properties managed by buffoons who do not understand either quality or service.  Now we will get the same at the formerly Westin associated properties.  Why don't you just do the correct thing and offer the properties to Westin so that members can have a quality operation in place?

So again - Raintree members have gotten is the shaft.  Pay more-get less.


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## Zelda

*Lawsuit filed and final*

For ALL members of Raintree go to Girard Gibbs website, girardgibbs.com  and scan down to Raintree litigation...

As of April 13, 2012 the lawsuit regarding the unlawful Special Assessment was final.

The $1.7 million  was won by the eleven Plaintiffs and it included ALL U. S. MEMBERS.

United States District Court, Northern District of California.. Case # CV 10-03125 CW

Any further information contact Girard Gibbs in San Francisco @ 415.981.4800.


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## hellolani

*Additional info for new owners of resale*

Just wanted to add to the pool of info - I purchased a RVC membership on ebay from a couple who paid their asssessments and qualify for the extra points being US residents.  I'm a Canadian resident, but I purchased a US account.  I called into Member Services just now and was informed by the rep that RVC has not yet made a decision on whether to allow those extra points granted to be transferred to new owners.  I was told to call back in two weeks.  FYI.


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## Zelda

hellolani,
that is absurd that they will not let you transfer go through.
that is what you paid for.
the Canadian members need to follow along with our law suit see my previous input and file a class action in Canada to the same effect for the Special Assessment as we did.
they can not charge some members something and not the others.  the assessment was illegal and they have to return the weeks to the members for each week that they paid a SA for.
the Special Assessment was non- contractual and the with holding of useage for not paying is considered Breach of Contract.  They can not do that.
Contact a law firm that will take it on a contingency basis as our did and then log into ot case documents from our lawsuit.
It doesn't take many members to sue and set a presidence for all Canadians.   Our lawsuit only had 11 Plaintiffs that fought for us.


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## hellolani

*Update: no extra points*

Just spoke with another rep, and they've unilaterally determined that members who purchased accounts from members who paid the assessment are not eligible for the settlement points.  

I'm sure they're betting that we're few enough that it would be too hard to organize, and I'm guessing they're right.  I have no idea how to find other members in the same shoes.  Plus we're Canadian.


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## scobrn

*RVC Settlement*

I read the settlement agreement that was approved by the courts.   If you paid the assesment and then sold the membership, you still have the use of the points from the settlement.  It specifically doesn't transfer to the transferee.


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