# Inherited Smuggs... Now what?



## FormerSmuggsChild (Aug 14, 2012)

Hi everyone... My mother passed away a few months ago and left my brother and I the timeshare at Smuggs in VT we visited every August when we were children. Unfortunately, we are both clueless where we go from here and the estate attorney is no help - he recommended we just forget the property ever existed. However, our mother would be horrified at the idea and we want to bring our children there someday. So, I am hoping you can give us some guidance. 

First, I am wondering if one of the other Smuggs owners might know if the deed is recorded on Vermont land records or not. Since my mother died in Florida, supposedly this will determine if I need to have probate proceedings started in Vermont as well or if it is a simple contract transfer. Please forgive me if this makes no sense, I am the sibling without the law degree   . 

Also, in my mother's e-mail, I have found several communications from RCI about exchange weeks, trading power, etc. I remember my mother talking about banking weeks and then about trading them for our trips to Disney or somewhere else but I am clueless to the process and RCI says we will lose a week at the end of the month. Can you please tell me where to look for information about this, as I bet it isn't a new question? 

Next, a big concern is that we already had to pay one $780 maintenance fee and neither one of us is going to be able to afford a vacation when our week comes up but we think we might be able to rent it - will the resort let someone else check into our week/unit? Or is that like the no subletting my apartment thing?  

This is all I've got for now but please let me know what else I don't know and should!

Thank you for the help.
SmuggsChild


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## nightnurse613 (Aug 14, 2012)

First off, sorry for your loss. Your mom sounded like the kind of woman who enjoyed sharing and caring for her children.  Secondly, I know NOTHING about Smuggs except that it's in Vermont (and you are in Florida) - although I hear good things about it in the forum and, it seems, you have fond memories. The first question is what are the maintenance fees, what kind of unit is it and is it a fixed or floating week. Apparently your mom had an RCI account - it is only one of several exchange oriented companies, you may or may not want to continue your relationship with them. If you know those answers you are on your way however, you can't be forced to accept this inheritance so, make sure you are ready to take on YEARLY maintenance fees (special assessments, etc) versus just renting a unit here (or somewhere else) without the commitment.  If you do a search in the Eastern forum you should find some discussions about this resort. Welcome to TUG and Good Reading!


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## Passepartout (Aug 14, 2012)

The deed should be recorded in the county where the resort is. It's public record and you can look it up. There will be a charge to transfer title to you and/or your bro.

The estate attorney is not too far off the mark in suggesting you just decline the inheritance. It has little monetary value and if it causes you hardship after paying the (ever increasing) Maintenance fees, let it go. If you insist on keeping it and using it, you can rent your week. You will need to notify the resort of the name of the renter. If you want to exchange your Smuggs week, you will have to belong to an exchange company. RCI is one of several, but can cost as much as $150 a year, plus the $140 to actually do an exchange.

Please accept our sympathy for your loss. We are happy you found your way to TUG. There is much knowledge here- if you can find it. If not, ask.

We wish you well.

Jim


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## janej (Aug 14, 2012)

I am really sorry about your loss.    I am a Smuggs owner but I am pretty new myself.   If you receive a bill in July in the amount of $780.   You probably own a 2 bedroom unit twice a year (one August week and one floating week).   You maintenance fee is $780 x 2 per year.   

First you need to figure out if your week comes with a benefit package, if so, how many people does the package cover and how many years you have left.   The benefit package allows owners to get free lift tickets and camps for kids in the summer.   I believe the package were sold in 20 year interval.   

The benefit package is not transferable if you decide to sell your timeshare.   You also can't give it to the renters.   Therefore, I think the value of Smuggs is mostly for the owners to enjoy.

If you and your brother can't use the timeshare for now, you might want to rent it out to cover some cost.   You can easily rent the summer week for its maintenance fee, but it is not going to cover both weeks' fee.   The floating week is pretty useless except to deposit to RCI.   Then you will also have to pay RCI membership.   Smuggs is going through lots of changes since Wyndham took over the management.   

If you decide to sell, you should be able to get something but not really significant amount of money in this market.   Laura Fagan specializes in the Smuggs.    Check out her website http://www.vermonttimesharebrokerage.com/ for more information.   You might want to talk to her about rental also.

Best luck,

Jane


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## Beefnot (Aug 15, 2012)

FormerSmuggsChild said:


> Also, in my mother's e-mail, I have found several communications from RCI about exchange weeks, trading power, etc. I remember my mother talking about banking weeks and then about trading them for our trips to Disney or somewhere else but I am clueless to the process and RCI says we will lose a week at the end of the month. Can you please tell me where to look for information about this, as I bet it isn't a new question?



I presume you would want to contact RCI and explain your situation, and get detail about your mother's account, what exchanges have been banked wi RCI, what expires when, what options you have available, etc.  After you get more details, then post specific questions here.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Another option is to deposit the floating week with an independent exchange company like Dial an Exchange, Trading Places International or SFX.   These companies offer free membership and slightly lower exchange fees.  They have less inventory than RCI but most exchange companies get weeks in Florida year round that might be easier for your family to use.

If you are going to decide you don't want it, then now would be the best time to do so.  You don't have to accept it but if you do and later decide you don't want it, there will be more hoops to dispose of it.


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## FormerSmuggsChild (Aug 15, 2012)

nightnurse613 said:


> First off, sorry for your loss. Your mom sounded like the kind of woman who enjoyed sharing and caring for her children.  Secondly, I know NOTHING about Smuggs except that it's in Vermont (and you are in Florida) - although I hear good things about it in the forum and, it seems, you have fond memories. The first question is what are the maintenance fees, what kind of unit is it and is it a fixed or floating week. Apparently your mom had an RCI account - it is only one of several exchange oriented companies, you may or may not want to continue your relationship with them. If you know those answers you are on your way however, you can't be forced to accept this inheritance so, make sure you are ready to take on YEARLY maintenance fees (special assessments, etc) versus just renting a unit here (or somewhere else) without the commitment.  If you do a search in the Eastern forum you should find some discussions about this resort. Welcome to TUG and Good Reading!


Thank you, nightnurse. How special you are the first to reply as my mom was a nurse! I hope it is a sign I am on the right track by coming here! My mom was a wonderful woman who bought the timeshare for our family after the death of her own mother with her inheritance to ensure that we would take a FAMILY vacation every year. And we did until we made the mistake of growing up...

The additional info I found: we own a fixed and a floating week in Oaks which is a 2 bd/2 ba that sleeps 8. Our fixed week is 34. RCI is paid through 2013 but from what I can tell the Smuggs fees are about $780 twice a year. (I now know I need to research what a floating week is - thank you!)

As you pointed out, I am in no geographic position to vacation in Vermont currently. However, my brother lives in CT so the decision about the timeshare's fate is really his. My goal is to gather as much information as possible so that we make an educated decision. 

Thanks for helping us get started.


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## FormerSmuggsChild (Aug 15, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> The deed should be recorded in the county where the resort is. It's public record and you can look it up. There will be a charge to transfer title to you and/or your bro.
> 
> The estate attorney is not too far off the mark in suggesting you just decline the inheritance. It has little monetary value and if it causes you hardship after paying the (ever increasing) Maintenance fees, let it go. If you insist on keeping it and using it, you can rent your week. You will need to notify the resort of the name of the renter. If you want to exchange your Smuggs week, you will have to belong to an exchange company. RCI is one of several, but can cost as much as $150 a year, plus the $140 to actually do an exchange.
> 
> ...


Jim, 

Thank you for the information. It certainly seems like this is quite a financial obligation for us two 20-somethings with student loans... But that is why I am gathering the information. My bro is sure he can rent it and recoup our expenses but I worry about that "ever increasing" maintenance fee part! 

I was about to say expect me back with questions when I had one (ok, two): is the only option for a floating week to exchange it? If so, can you rent an exchanged week?

Thanks again,
SmuggsChild


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2012)

FormerSmuggsChild said:


> If so, can you rent an exchanged week?
> 
> Thanks again,
> SmuggsChild



No. You can't rent an exchange, but you can reserve a week at Smuggs and rent that. 

We know you are an newbie, but many of your questions are going to be best answered by Wyndham owners (Wyndham recently took over management of Smuggs). This may be a good thing for you and da Bro. There are lots and lots of Wyndham resorts in the SE USA, and an active group of owners here. I understand that you Smuggs owners won't have access to all the Wyndham resorts, but some if I recall correctly. Those would be treated as an internal exchange, and I think they can be rented.

Keep an eye on, or ask this type question in the Wyndham forum.

Best.

Jim


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## FormerSmuggsChild (Aug 15, 2012)

janej said:


> First you need to figure out if your week comes with a benefit package, if so, how many people does the package cover and how many years you have left.   The benefit package allows owners to get free lift tickets and camps for kids in the summer.   I believe the package were sold in 20 year interval.
> 
> The benefit package is not transferable if you decide to sell your timeshare.   You also can't give it to the renters.   Therefore, I think the value of Smuggs is mostly for the owners to enjoy.
> 
> If you and your brother can't use the timeshare for now, you might want to rent it out to cover some cost.   You can easily rent the summer week for its maintenance fee, but it is not going to cover both weeks' fee.   The floating week is pretty useless except to deposit to RCI.   Then you will also have to pay RCI membership.   Smuggs is going through lots of changes since Wyndham took over the management.



Jane -

Thank you for your sympathies and your help. You gave me several great questions to ask. I had no idea about the benefits packages though we did go to camp many years. Also, you know almost as much about our situation as I do lol. Unfortunately, we haven't been to Smuggs in 9 years since I graduated high school and moved myself to Florida for college so I have a feeling things have changed quite a bit. Since then Mom used trades to visit us at our schools and to visit other family. I just found some scribbles that suggest she may have rented our August week a few times but I'm just not sure. I think my brother's goal is to rent the weeks to cover the fees until we are stable enough financially to be able to afford vacations but I appreciate your realistic assessment that that probably isn't possible. Finding an extra $400 each (assuming we are lucky enough to rent and fees don't go up) is something we have to discuss. 

I am going to try calling Smuggs tomorrow for information. When Mom bought Smuggs she never planned on our inheriting this soon and then when we found out she was dying, I think we just forgot all about it... So when my brother called, they wouldn't answer his questions because his name isn't on the account. I am hoping Mom had the foresight to add mine (she always liked me better   anyways).  Just kidding...

SmuggsChild


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## WinniWoman (Aug 15, 2012)

FormerSmuggsChild said:


> Jane -
> 
> Thank you for your sympathies and your help. You gave me several great questions to ask. I had no idea about the benefits packages though we did go to camp many years. Also, you know almost as much about our situation as I do lol. Unfortunately, we haven't been to Smuggs in 9 years since I graduated high school and moved myself to Florida for college so I have a feeling things have changed quite a bit. Since then Mom used trades to visit us at our schools and to visit other family. I just found some scribbles that suggest she may have rented our August week a few times but I'm just not sure. I think my brother's goal is to rent the weeks to cover the fees until we are stable enough financially to be able to afford vacations but I appreciate your realistic assessment that that probably isn't possible. Finding an extra $400 each (assuming we are lucky enough to rent and fees don't go up) is something we have to discuss.
> 
> ...



I have responded to your post on the Wyndham thread.


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## theo (Aug 15, 2012)

*A few thoughts...*



Passepartout said:


> The deed should be recorded in the county where the resort is. It's public record and you can look it up. <snip>
> The estate attorney is not too far off the mark in suggesting you just decline the inheritance. It has little monetary value and if it causes you hardship after paying the (ever increasing) Maintenance fees, let it go. <snip>




I too think this is good advice. You have *no* legal obligation to actually "accept" the inheritance of the timeshare ownership and, despite any emotional attachment of past memories or future intentions, remember that it will be an annual expense --- forever --- if you take over the ownership. You can always just rent a week there without those annual fee obligations, but that is of course your choice and decision to make.

One note about deeds in Vermont, based upon my own experience with a timeshare ownership I had at Killington and sold just a few years back. Unlike in many states, the deed was actually recorded in *town* (i.e., not County) records; you may want to inquire directly of the resort whether that is also the case at Smuggler's Notch (...likely yes). Also, be aware that there is a Vermont state tax imposed and collected whenever a deed / ownership change is made. I believe it is called a "real estate transfer tax", or something like that. Even if acquired at no cost, a minimum tax applies. I don't recall that it was a patricularly big expense, but the fee must nonetheless still be paid right along with the deed fees in order to complete the ownership change and new deed recording. 

Hope this helps a bit. Sorry for your loss and best wishes.


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## massvacationer (Aug 15, 2012)

I think that you may want to consult with the lawyer regarding not accepting the inheritance of this timeshare due to: the maintenance fee expenses (nearly $1600 per year); your location in Florida; the complexity of dividing the ownership between two people; your young ages; and the time and effort involved to successfully rent the unit. 

I think, down the road,  when you and/or your brother get to to the point where a timeshare might make sense  (kids, comfortable finances, etc.),  you can each explore buying a resale timeshare that is a good fit for your particular needs.


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2012)

After sleeping on this and considering your (OP's) situation, my opinion remains unchanged. Don't accept the inheritance. This is your only chance to do this. I know you and the brother want to honor your Mom's wishes, but she couldn't have known about the hardship coming up with a permanently ongoing and increasing obligation would put on your young lives. If at some time in the future, you want to take your family(s) to Smuggs for memory's sake, you can always rent. Mom won't be there and the family's memory will be unchanged. You just won't have the monthly or biennial 'reminder' via a MF bill of Mom's soon-to-be unwanted 'gift.' 

If you accept this inheritance, and initiate the transfer process into your name(s), you will be on the hook for (if my math is correct) $1500 or so a year for an obligation that will cost you more thousands to use, or will take many hours of your time to recoup just a portion of your losses.

We love our timeshares and can't wait to take our vacations, but we realize that they are more suitable for certain times of our lives, and for you, twentysomethings, with student loans and the obligations of young families, this is not the time. 

When it IS time, timeshares will be available for a very small price and you can introduce your families to great vacations.

Continued good luck, and we wish you well.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm with Jim!


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## kwilson (Aug 15, 2012)

My advice is simple. Give it to your brother if he wants it. If not just refuse the inheritance. You are not in a good position to take this on. If you decide in the future you want a timeshare you can pick the location and resort you want. It appears resales will continue to be very cheap.
And refer your brother to TUG!


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## FormerSmuggsChild (Aug 15, 2012)

*Thank You*

Thank you all for the information and advice! While my decision makes me quite sad, it is now pretty clear to me that timeshare ownership is not presently for me. I have shared all of your answers with my brother and I know he feels he has a lot to think about. He promised he would log on here later today and read everything when he is done with court and his client meetings. (He is an elder law attorney in CT - ironic, huh? He was only in year one of law school when Mom wrote her final will or, believe me, we would have been more prepared.) 

I suppose the question now is: is it worth the estate trying to sell the property since our maintenance is paid til February? Or do we just wait and let them foreclose? Do we have a shot at selling? I know I would be happy if we could recoup at least one year's worth of maintenance fees. My brother would probably be happier with more  

Anyone want Smuggs lol? 

Thanks again,
SmuggsChild


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## tschwa2 (Aug 15, 2012)

If neither of you want it, you may want to call Smugglers Notch and tell them your mother has died and there is no one willing to take the TS in your family and ask if they would take a deed back.  I think developers like Wyndham are less likely to do this but you never know.  Here is a recently closed similar auction on ebay.  Also contact the broker on Janej's post.  I definitely think there are people will to take the timeshare and you shouldn't have to pay to dispose of it but you and your brother have to decide if it is worth the time and effort to sell it for a few hundred dollars.  As recently as 2-3 years ago, these were going for a couple thousand but it has really declined recently.  The ebay auction included the closing costs and transfer fee but the buyer had to pay for half the MF's for 2012 without getting any use of 2012 weeks.  So basically I think the buyer had to pay around $1500 for usage starting in 2013.


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## bogey21 (Aug 15, 2012)

massvacationer said:


> I think that you may want to consult with the lawyer regarding not accepting the inheritance of this timeshare due to: the maintenance fee expenses (nearly $1600 per year); your location in Florida; the complexity of dividing the ownership between two people; your young ages; and the time and effort involved to successfully rent the unit.



Personally I would decline the inheritance for the reasons listed above.  Your Brother can then make his own decision to also decline the inheritance or accept 100% ownership.

George


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## kristapb (Aug 21, 2012)

*How do you decline?*

I have read this discussion with interest, because my husband and I have two timeshares that I do not want to burden my children with, when we pass on.  How, exactly, does one "decline" an inheritance?  Do you need a lawyer for that?


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## carl2591 (Aug 21, 2012)

kristapb said:


> I have read this discussion with interest, because my husband and I have two timeshares that I do not want to burden my children with, when we pass on.  How, exactly, does one "decline" an inheritance?  Do you need a lawyer for that?




my guess would be you, or they,  tell the executor of the estate they do not want to accept ownership of the timeshare. The executor would contact the resort to let them know the survivors have not accepted the unit and it will be given back to resort through quit claim deed procedure. 

I am not an attorney but that would seem to be the way this would play out.


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## rrlongwell (Aug 21, 2012)

kristapb said:


> I have read this discussion with interest, because my husband and I have two timeshares that I do not want to burden my children with, when we pass on.  How, exactly, does one "decline" an inheritance?  Do you need a lawyer for that?



Pre-empt the problems, discuss it with a Estate Planning attorny is what I suggested.


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## Passepartout (Aug 21, 2012)

kristapb said:


> How, exactly, does one "decline" an inheritance?  Do you need a lawyer for that?



Your kids will probably have an attorney to do your probate anyway, and of course you should have at least a will. In the will, you can leave instructions to the executor to send the deed(s) back to the resort along with a copy of whichever of you is the last to go's Death Certificate telling them that the property's owner has died and the estate will no longer pay any MF. Authorize the resort to place it in the name of the HOA (or whomever). You won't be in a position to care about a bad credit report if it comes to foreclosure- which is unlikely. They might try to get the estate to pay for the title transfer, and if the executor is feeling flush, s/he might, but eventually they will quit asking.

Jim


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## rrlongwell (Aug 22, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Your kids will probably have an attorney to do your probate anyway, and of course you should have at least a will. In the will, you can leave instructions to the executor to send the deed(s) back to the resort along with a copy of whichever of you is the last to go's Death Certificate telling them that the property's owner has died and the estate will no longer pay any MF. Authorize the resort to place it in the name of the HOA (or whomever). You won't be in a position to care about a bad credit report if it comes to foreclosure- which is unlikely. They might try to get the estate to pay for the title transfer, and if the executor is feeling flush, s/he might, but eventually they will quit asking.
> 
> Jim



I know of some one who tried a give back of timeshares to the HOAs who was executor of a Estate.  It is my understanding the Estate ended up paying one heck of a lot of maintance fees while that problem was being resolved.


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## Passepartout (Aug 22, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I know of some one who tried a give back of timeshares to the HOAs who was executor of a Estate.  It is my understanding the Estate ended up paying one heck of a lot of maintance fees while that problem was being resolved.



No doubt that if the executor sends them a check, they will cash it- and that would acknowledge the debt. But if told there would be no money coming and to feel free to take back the deed or foreclose, what leverage do they have? Ruin a dead person's credit?

As has been said by me and many others. Every person should get competent legal advice when considering any relatively complex estate planning. State laws differ and so do family situations and dynamics.


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## GHT (Aug 22, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> If neither of you want it... tell them your mother has died and there is no one willing to take the TS in your family and ask if they would take a deed back.  I think developers like Wyndham are less likely to do this but you never know.


Wyndham has no interest in deed backs from deceased owners. They will send bills for maintenance fees to the survivors of a deceased timeshare owner and keep a running tally of the unpaid maintenance fees to claim as theirs from an estate. I had my lawyer send Wyndham a cease and desist letter for their monthly bills against my fathers timeshare points after my father passed away, and Wyndham is still sending monthly bills.  They are interfering with my ability as executor to settle my deceased fathers estate.  Wyndham wants the estate to NEVER be settled so they can have the monthly revenue FOREVER from the Wyndham points that non of the heirs even want.


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## garyk01 (Oct 16, 2012)

Pass on the timeshare. you can always rent somewhere, call RCI and request a refund of her remaing time with them if any , if she has any banked weeks use them and then it over with them as well.


Passepartout said:


> After sleeping on this and considering your (OP's) situation, my opinion remains unchanged. Don't accept the inheritance. This is your only chance to do this. I know you and the brother want to honor your Mom's wishes, but she couldn't have known about the hardship coming up with a permanently ongoing and increasing obligation would put on your young lives. If at some time in the future, you want to take your family(s) to Smuggs for memory's sake, you can always rent. Mom won't be there and the family's memory will be unchanged. You just won't have the monthly or biennial 'reminder' via a MF bill of Mom's soon-to-be unwanted 'gift.'
> 
> If you accept this inheritance, and initiate the transfer process into your name(s), you will be on the hook for (if my math is correct) $1500 or so a year for an obligation that will cost you more thousands to use, or will take many hours of your time to recoup just a portion of your losses.
> 
> ...


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## persia (Oct 17, 2012)

I have an interview with the state government on Thursday, if I end up living in Montpelier I might be interested in it....


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