# Signed up Sunday, decided to rescind



## rudys119 (Nov 30, 2021)

So we were staying at Beach Club resort on Maui as guests of my wifes boss.  We got talked into the presentation and a few hours later we were Diamond Club owners.  The numbers seemed like a great deal during the presentation but afterwards as I started doing all the math in my head it didnt seem as good.  I promptly did some google searching, found this site and today decided to rescind the offer and look at buying from the marketplace here.  I have signed the cancellation paperwork that they included in the contract and intend on both faxing to the number provided as well as certified mail tomorrow.  I'm curious now as to how buying the points on the resale market works as opposed to buying at the resort.  We had purchased 7500 points in the Hawaiin collection and were told it was good throughout all diamond properties but we get the best value by staying in the collection.  I am currently looking at 15,000 points on the marketplace for the same resort we stayed at.  Would these resale points be good at all the Hawaiin collection properties?  Would they also transfer to other diamond properties outside the collection, if so I assume there would be a penalty.  Also can you still save the unused points and roll them over to the next year?  Thanks for all the help, finding that this forum is way more truthful and helpful than the sales people at the resort!


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## Passepartout (Nov 30, 2021)

Congrats for finding TUG in time to correct a costly mistake. I'm not a Diamond owner, but my understanding is that resale points act just like retail points, but just cost less. Others will chime in with details.

Jim


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## rudys119 (Nov 30, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> Congrats for finding TUG in time to correct a costly mistake. I'm not a Diamond owner, but my understanding is that resale points act just like retail points, but just cost less. Others will chime in with details.
> 
> Jim


Since I am not having the sales pressure, do you have another company that you would recommend?  We liked the idea of the points and being able to try different properties and different areas.  We live in northern Cali so obviously Hawaii is a good stop for us, but would love to ultimately have the ability to save up enough "points" to do a European trip or something along those lines.


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## Passepartout (Nov 30, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> Since I am not having the sales pressure, do you have another company that you would recommend?  We liked the idea of the points and being able to try different properties and different areas.  We live in northern Cali so obviously Hawaii is a good stop for us, but would love to ultimately have the ability to save up enough "points" to do a European trip or something along those lines.


Hi Rudy, While I like Hawaii, I wouldn't want to take on the commitment to HAVE to go there annually. There are great timeshare systems that are weighted in the West. I don't need hotel branded luxury, so well located 4* accommodations work for us. I like the WorldMark group of resorts. There are more luxurious digs, but these are where we want to go, and at a more reasonable cost. Their website is www.WMOwners.com Of course there is Marriott, Hilton (HGVC.com) and many others.

Look around TUG. There is a questionnaire to help you narrow your choices, "What to Buy" Questions for New Timeshare Owners | Timeshare Users Group Discussion Forums (tugbbs.com)  For now, enjoy the vacation you're on. When you get home, and are considering another vacation, consider renting from a TUGger. Try different systems. It might be that you can get all the timesharing you want without owning anything. You mention Europe, and I'll say that with a few exceptions, European timeshares are not like American/Mexican/Caribbean ones. But that's fodder for another discussion.

Enjoy Hawaii!

Jim


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## TUGBrian (Nov 30, 2021)

grats on rescinding and saving thousands!

check out the newbie forum, there is a sticky there for questions to determine what system works best for you!


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## geist1223 (Nov 30, 2021)

Resell DRI Points can only be used in the Collection that they belong and not any of the Affiliates. There are only 2 Resorts in the Hawaiian Collection that are actually in Hawaii.  These are KBC on Mau'i and Point at Poipu on Kaua'i. If you look at the DRI Web Page you can look up Resorts in different locations even without being a Member. If you look at Hawai'i there are lots of Resorts. Except for the 2 listed the rest are Affiliates. The other Hawaiian Collection Resorts are in Las Vegas, Arizona, Utah, and a couple others I do not remember. Even the Modern Honolulu is not part of the Hawaiian Collection.

In addition to our DRI Points we also own a fair number of Worldmark Credits/Points. Resell Worldmark Credits are useable at all 90+ Worldmark Resorts. On the resell market the Worldmark Credits are less than 10 cents on the dollar vice Developer bought Credits. You also have access to the WaitList, Bonus Time, Monday Madness, Inventory Specials, etc.


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## Grammarhero (Dec 1, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> So we were staying at Beach Club resort on Maui as guests of my wifes boss.  We got talked into the presentation and a few hours later we were Diamond Club owners.  The numbers seemed like a great deal during the presentation but afterwards as I started doing all the math in my head it didnt seem as good.  I promptly did some google searching, found this site and today decided to rescind the offer and look at buying from the marketplace here.  I have signed the cancellation paperwork that they included in the contract and intend on both faxing to the number provided as well as certified mail tomorrow.  I'm curious now as to how buying the points on the resale market works as opposed to buying at the resort.  We had purchased 7500 points in the Hawaiin collection and were told it was good throughout all diamond properties but we get the best value by staying in the collection.  I am currently looking at 15,000 points on the marketplace for the same resort we stayed at.  Would these resale points be good at all the Hawaiin collection properties?  Would they also transfer to other diamond properties outside the collection, if so I assume there would be a penalty.  Also can you still save the unused points and roll them over to the next year?  Thanks for all the help, finding that this forum is way more truthful and helpful than the sales people at the resort!


We hope your rescission and deposit refund were successful.  To track TUG rescission savings, mind sharing how much you saved with rescission?  As half of tuggers initially bought developer/retail TS, there is no shame.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 1, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> We had purchased 7500 points in the Hawaiin collection and were told it was good throughout all diamond properties but we get the best value by staying in the collection. I am currently looking at 15,000 points on the marketplace for the same resort we stayed at.


This is from a current Diamond gold level owner who was in almost the same situation as you more than 20 years ago, on Hawaii, having gone through a sales presentation we were talked into, signing up, finding TUG, and rescinding. The most important thing I can tell your right now is .....

*Slow down and take your time to do some research.*

Any deal  you see on the resale market now will still be there a year from now.  You don't need to rush into anything. 

What should you research:  Some thoughts:

How often do I want to visit this area?  Every year? Every other year? Every few years? How many people should I think about - the two of us, children, adult children, spouses of children, grandchildren?
What other resorts are in the area that might also fit our needs?
If we want to have the option of visiting other areas, what are those other areas?  Is there a resort collection (Diamond, Wyndham, HGVC, Marriott, etc.) that has resorts in those locations where I can book directly instead of doing exchanges?  If I want to do exchanges, what kind of trade power do I need and what is best option for getting that trade power?
If you buy into a resort collection, be it Diamond, Marriott, HGVC, Disney, Welk, or whatever, understand that the structure will be set up so that operator of the system will have almost total control of what happens at the resort, including deciding who manages the resort (usually a subsidiary of that entity) and what your annual fees will be. So when you purchase recognize that is a decision to get in bed with that entity.  You should decide if that entity is one that you want to get in bed with.
What does the pricing look like to just simply rent comparable accommodations versus buying a timeshare - recognizing that if you rent you are not obligated to pay annual fees, and can  put that money towards a rental anywhere  you want, whereas with a timeshare you are obligated to pay fees with your ownership regardless of whether you actually use the unit(s).
Consider doing rentals in an area you are interested in for one or more years to give yourself time to investigate and collect information.  It's unlikely that resale pricing in your area will change much during the time you spend collecting information.
Just take your time, do your homework, and only buy when you have done enough backgrounding so that you are comfortable that the deal you are accepting is one that you are happy.  Don't let  yourself fall into the trap of being sure that you get the best possible deal (unless that is  your thing).  When  you are ready, just make a deal that you know is a good deal. If you wind up spending a bit more than you might have needed to, so what?  It will still be far less than the developer deal.  

And for me, long ago I got tired of trying to squeeze out every dollar I could during negotiations.  It was a lot of work, the satisfaction was ephemeral, and when I took a step back I realized those mercenary behaviors were corrupting me and turning me into someone I didn't want to be.


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## rudys119 (Dec 1, 2021)

Grammarhero said:


> We hope your rescission and deposit refund were successful.  To track TUG rescission savings, mind sharing how much you saved with rescission?  As half of tuggers initially bought developer/retail TS, there is no shame.


We were staying as guests of a longtime owner, so supposedly we got their pricing, which I am sure is a lie.  Our contract was for 7500 points in the Hawaii collection, and included an extra week vacation including airfare, plus an extra week with a 2bdrm.  The total was 28k.  But we were going to do a 5K down payment with 23K financed.


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## rudys119 (Dec 1, 2021)

Just both faxed the cancellation letter that they supplied as well as mailed it 2day mail to the address provided.  Curious on the 7 day deadline to cancel.  Do they need to physically "receive" the letter within the 7 days, or does it simply need to be postmarked by the 7th days.  I did 2 day mail because the normal certified mail it was going to show up on Monday and Sunday was the day listed on the letter that it had to show up by.


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## Ty1on (Dec 1, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> We were staying as guests of a longtime owner, so supposedly we got their pricing, which I am sure is a lie.  Our contract was for 7500 points in the Hawaii collection, and included an extra week vacation including airfare, plus an extra week with a 2bdrm.  The total was 28k.  But we were going to do a 5K down payment with 23K financed.



Oh you got their pricing, to be sure.  It doesn't matter whether they were already owners, Sales is willing to fleece anyone at any time. So their pricing is the same as everyone else's:  "whatever we can get outta them"

If it is postmarked within the rescission period, you're gold.


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## rudys119 (Dec 1, 2021)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> This is from a current Diamond gold level owner who was in almost the same situation as you more than 20 years ago, on Hawaii, having gone through a sales presentation we were talked into, signing up, finding TUG, and rescinding. The most important thing I can tell your right now is .....
> 
> *Slow down and take your time to do some research.*
> 
> ...



Now that we got back yesterday and do not have anything planned yet I will definitely do my research and scour to resale marketplace.  Right now I think I am liking the Worldmark point system on the resale market.  Not that I plan on jumping on it now, but seeing 20,000 annual Worldmark Points for 4,700 with only 1884.24 maintenance fee's.  I would guess I spend about 3k a year right now on lodging on my trips so the maint fee's see pretty reasonable and 20k points seem like more than enough for 2 one week trips wherever we want to go.  I will have to do more research on the Worldmark forum, but need to figure out the significance of the home resort that is tied to the points, since they transfer to any property.


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## Ty1on (Dec 1, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> Now that we got back yesterday and do not have anything planned yet I will definitely do my research and scour to resale marketplace.  Right now I think I am liking the Worldmark point system on the resale market.  Not that I plan on jumping on it now, but seeing 20,000 annual Worldmark Points for 4,700 with only 1884.24 maintenance fee's.  I would guess I spend about 3k a year right now on lodging on my trips so the maint fee's see pretty reasonable and 20k points seem like more than enough for 2 one week trips wherever we want to go.  I will have to do more research on the Worldmark forum, but need to figure out the significance of the home resort that is tied to the points, since they transfer to any property.



Worldmark is a trust system.  You don't own a home resort.


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## rudys119 (Dec 1, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Worldmark is a trust system.  You don't own a home resort.


Thats what I thought, just threw me off when I saw that all of the postings in the marketplace had a location tagged to them as well as this one which showed the resort there.


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## Ty1on (Dec 1, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> Thats what I thought, just threw me off when I saw that all of the postings in the marketplace had a location tagged to them as well as this one which showed the resort there. View attachment 42971



Could he be referring to including the Eagle Crest photo with the listing?


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## geist1223 (Dec 1, 2021)

Many Online Selling sites require the listing of a Resort. Worldmark is a pure Credit/Point System and there is no Home Resort.


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## curly buffalo (Dec 4, 2021)

Full disclosure: a former DRI and ongoing Marriott owner is commenting.

About 15 years ago we, or I, as my wife reminds me occasionally (yes I should have had my ears open when she spoke) were shown beautiful units in Sedona. 
We (I) bought.
Bad decision. Difficult to schedule units, fee increases every year, the units we did utilize were sorely in need of updating and repair, by decades. We returned a few times and multiple attempts to upsell us and convert to points. A great example of bait/switch and over promise and game plan to under deliver to clients. 
Eventually, one cold and rainy/snowy day in March I stumbled on a thread on TUG that if we were paid off and up to date on maintenance fees, that DRI would allow us to gift our TS back for a $250 transfer fee. I did the paperwork that day and a few months later was free of it. 
Keep in mind, just because you paid for a week or points in Hawai'i, it does NOT guarantee that there will be a unit available at the location and on the dates that you need a unit. Remember that when owners are requesting unit time, they are competing with other owners, exchangers, and the visitors to whom they are trying to sell units, which compresses available inventory for you, since the destination is highly desirable.
Look online for condo rentals and there are many nice units, at reasonable prices, with no sales pitch.
We/I had also bought a Marriott week in Scottsdale, on the same trip during which we bought in Sedona. Totally different experience, always with topnotch, well maintained, updated units with excellent and responsive on site management. 
We have also stayed in Hilton, Hyatt, Sheraton, and Westin properties and would make similar comments on those.
We typically use Hampton, Courtyard, Hilton Garden Inn, Holiday Inn Express, so mid-level hotels and not hotel snobs.
Do yourself a favor, pay a few dollars, join TUG and follow this excellent website, and realize that for the minimal fee, you have 24/7/365 access to a diverse group of commentators, with many years of experience ,good, bad and in-between. The comments are crowd sourced and people are basically confessing some of their bad financial decisions, and offering their personal analyses, biases, and a bit of advice.
I am included, and glad to pay the fee for a constant source of relevant information.
Good luck.


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## trippka (Dec 5, 2021)

I am a DRI member at a high level (spent way too much) but also own at Marriott, Westin, several Mexico timeshares (great to visit but be extra extra careful if you buy resale here) and some in Breckenridge for skiing (highly recommended!). All of them have their advantages. I love the DRI resort in Mexico, and also enjoy their Hawaii options. I have spent as much as I have with DRI so that I can actually book pretty much when I want to at my favorite resorts. I get a 1 month lead over other members. Is it worth it? Probably not. Can you get what you want when you want otherwise? Probably not. If you want to go to Sedona December 10, (also in the Hawaii collection - don't ask!) you can probably get a room. It is wonderful there that time of year, but not everyone has that flexibility. You got great advice to take your time and decide what is right for you. One thing that no one has mentioned is the Hilton bought DRI. (DRI maintains an interest.) No one seems to know exactly how that will work out for the various levels of membership, but I am counting on improved maintenance, improved efficiency in maintenance fees. (DRI maintenance fees are WAY too high.) Just my thoughts as a decades long timeshare owner.


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## Luanne (Dec 5, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> Hi Rudy, While I like Hawaii, I wouldn't want to take on the commitment to HAVE to go there annually.
> 
> Jim


We bought on Maui precisely because we WANTED to go their annually.    Living on the west coast it was an easy flight. When our daughters were growing up it was nice to go someplace for a week or so and just kind of veg and relax. It was our home away from home.


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## Passepartout (Dec 5, 2021)

Luanne said:


> We bought on Maui precisely because we WANTED to go their annually.    Living on the west coast it was an easy flight. When our daughters were growing up it was nice to go someplace for a week or so and just kind of veg and relax. It was our home away from home.


And THIS, to my way of thinking, is the CORRECT reason to buy a Maui week. NOT to exchange it for a mainland week.


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## trippka (Dec 5, 2021)

Luanne said:


> We bought on Maui precisely because we WANTED to go their annually.    Living on the west coast it was an easy flight. When our daughters were growing up it was nice to go someplace for a week or so and just kind of veg and relax. It was our home away from home.


And we bought there when we lived in Alaska, and it was roughly the same cost and time to fly to Seattle or Hawaii in the Winter/early Spring. Yes we wanted to get away from Winter every year.


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## trippka (Dec 5, 2021)

Luanne said:


> We bought on Maui precisely because we WANTED to go their annually.    Living on the west coast it was an easy flight. When our daughters were growing up it was nice to go someplace for a week or so and just kind of veg and relax. It was our home away from home.





rudys119 said:


> We had purchased 7500 points in the Hawaiin collection and were told it was good throughout all diamond properties but we get the best value by staying in the collection.  I am currently looking at 15,000 points on the marketplace for the same resort we stayed at.  Would these resale points be good at all the Hawaiin collection properties?  Would they also transfer to other diamond properties outside the collection, if so I assume there would be a penalty.  Also can you still save the unused points and roll them over to the next year?  Thanks for all the help, finding that this forum is way more truthful and helpful than the sales people at the resort!


.

If you do end up getting 7500 points, make sure you understand what you can get for that # of points. Not sure you can get any room at all at Spring Break. Other times, it might be a 1BR parking lot ("garden") view. You can carry over some of your points, so realistically, this might be Sedona one year, Hawaii the next.  Also, if you buy resale, you can "clean up" your "dirty" points by buying more points directly from DRI. Again, if you decide this is right for you, there is a lot to learn.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 5, 2021)

We own 46,000 WorldMark points and they are okay, but they do not work well for Hawaii.  I would never buy WorldMark for Hawaii.  Estes Park, Yellowstone, California, Oregon, etc., but Maui is a tough get, and the views are not great from most units at the Kihei resort.  View doesn't matter to most people, but it does to me. I don't love Valley Isle, personally, but the views can be good.  It's also tough to get.  Nothing on Oahu, Kauai has an okay property, but if you want Hawaii, you should look at buying Hawaii.  

My advice to everyone, those who are dear and those whom I barely know is to talk to a salesperson at advantagevacation.com.  Their office is in the Cannery Mall by Safeway in Lahaina.  Buy something oceanfront with Mandatory Options, Westin, or buy Marriott oceanfront.  If you were willing to buy something from a salesperson at Ka'anapali Beach Club at the price they charge, you will save money on a resale and have something worth what you paid for it.


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## rudys119 (Dec 5, 2021)

We may do Hawaii a couple of times but we definitely don't require a Hawaii every year type of thing.  The view isn't huge for me either as we don't spend that much time in the room.  I know we would like to do Kuaui and Honolulu in the next 3-4 years but I really like to change it up a lot and check out new places.


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## Passepartout (Dec 6, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> We may do Hawaii a couple of times but we definitely don't require a Hawaii every year type of thing.  The view isn't huge for me either as we don't spend that much time in the room.  I know we would like to do Kuaui and Honolulu in the next 3-4 years but I really like to change it up a lot and check out new places.


I await flames, but I wouldn't buy a timeshare. Rent. These are often for less than MF cost. MFs are going up at 5+% annually which by now is on pace with hotel site rates. 

Keep an eye out for an outstanding deal, but don't hurry into a purchase.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 6, 2021)

rudys119 said:


> We may do Hawaii a couple of times but we definitely don't require a Hawaii every year type of thing.  The view isn't huge for me either as we don't spend that much time in the room.  I know we would like to do Kuaui and Honolulu in the next 3-4 years but I really like to change it up a lot and check out new places.


You should consider a Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 bedroom lockoff, deposit each side separately to II, then enter ongoing searches for trips.  If you don't care about view, it's easy to get something with island view on Kauai, Maui, the Westins are very easy to get.  There are other resorts on the various islands.  I have been very ecstatic with my trades.  Fees of less about $1,400, two deposits, great trading power.  

Views do matter to me.  We go during whale season and spend our mornings and afternoons on the balcony at our home resort.  Turtles are fun to watch as well as whale behaviors.  February cannot get here fast enough for me.


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## andtlie (Dec 6, 2021)

We are currently in Maui at the Kaapalani Beach Club. We attended a presentation today. They were very nice. We own two Kauai timeshares through RCI and did an exchange. I did ask for an updated unit when we checked in. She gave us a room we are satisfied with, and an ocean view. At the presentation I was told they gave us this unit in good faith that we would consider buying something. They took us to their show unit and it looked just like the unit we have, only an even better ocean view. It's dated, but we're comfortable. One thing that attracted me was belonging to Intervals International. He showed me the Marriott Ko'a'lina and the Westin and some resorts RCI doesn't have. Then I thought maybe I could switch from RCI to Intervals International and not buy in. I told him I could not make a decision today that I wanted to research what I have with what's being offered. They told me legally the offer is only good today and not any other day. I don't understand this. They kept asking my husband why we would pass the offer up. Our timeshares are long paid for. We love our home unit and Maui is nice but Kauai remains my favorite. I looked at Intervals International today, and that inventory he showed me may or may not be available depending what we would buy. I want to better understand how to maximize what we have with RCI.


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## SML123 (Dec 7, 2021)

My husband and I were in the timeshare sales side of the biz for over 40 years. We have also owned timeshare weeks for many years and use them intermittently when appropriate. We are heading to Garza Blanca in Puerto Vallarta in a week on an exchange. We returned from Paris a month ago, where we used Hyatt points (not timeshare points, but business points) to reduce the rate of the Hotel du Louvre. Sometimes we swap and sometimes we rent, it depends on the scenario.

Having read this entire thread something jumps out at me. POINTS. The points seem to always be the issue as you own NOTHING and must trust the club to not only simply exist but give you a vacation that you can use. Whereas years ago you bought week 14 at the Merriweather on Fort Lauderdale Beach and that is where you could show up and vacation every year if you wanted to. You actually owned something and thats where you began. I have two week 14's on Fort Laud Beach because they are either Easter week or in the zone and I get more from them if I wanted to trade them versus a week in September. However I could use them without having to ask someone for something. The resort is an old resort from the late 70's but its run as a well oiled machine, super clean and even remodeled - great management can be rare! My mf is $675 a week so when I trade for two weeks at Cliffs Club, I can easily justify the money. 

IF you like Hawaii, FIND A LOVELY OLDER RESORT THAT IS WELL MAINTAINED that is in RCI with WEEKS for sale and buy a resale week that works for you. DO NOT rely on trading to get what youd like. Not sure if this animal exists these days but on paper thats what I suggest. Are there fixed weeks in Hawaii? 

I used to live 20 minutes from my resort in Fort Laud so trading was my intention, BUT I also vacation via WILD CARD. Meaning that I dont care where I go as much as what the resort is like. Ill go anywhere that offers a nice resort and dont care that much about where it is. I never decide on a location and date, I type in a location and leave the dates blank, so I can see what comes up. Type in Hawaii and hit SEARCH, in RCI. I trade with maximum flexibility. OR if we want to go somewhere in May, I type in a date range and hit SEARCH to see what in the world is available in May. Broad based exchanges yield happy results.

In places like Florida, Hilton Head Island, California, HAWAII, there are such strict or even regulations for building and the insane price of land has limited new construction as there are height restrictions, that there are likely older resorts from the 80's that have been sold out for years and are run well by the management company. I would not hesitate to buy an old resort resale unit in a nice location if I wanted a place to return to. But to give people many tens of thousands of dollars of my money to hold UP FRONT and hope they give me what I want each year, is truly getting into bed with an unknown entity.

Back in the day, we begged people to buy a timeshare week for 7500 but they actually got to use a lovely resort for 20 or more years. These days with people giving Disney or Vidanta fifty thousand plus dollars for NOTHING seems insane to me. I was always a top salesperson back in the day but I dont know HOW anyone sells anything to people at todays prices or justifies a $1800 mf on top of the price. I can always find a $500 night hotel - pay my $3500, and walk away. I dont need a condo that badly that I would ever pony up fifty grand up front. I have friends who lost over 150k on the Solaz debacle with Marriott - I vacationed there three times on RCI exchange, which is three times more than they got to stay there. Please dont give these developers these big numbers - I cant see paying more than 20k for even a fixed week somewhere I liked for 10 years - even though that math isnt that bad.


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