# Young couple (34) stuck with Kingsland 2BR and now hating HGVC



## JMN Worldwide (Dec 30, 2017)

So my wife and I purchased Kingsland 2BR (rather upgraded after owning another in Hawaii) in 2010 and were taking advantage of the travel opportunities at explorean kohunlich, Vegas, and an Alaska cruise (terrible use of points) at the time. However, our job situation now has us living in the Middle East where we have minimal desire to make a long flight back to the states for an HGVC resort. As it appears, we won't be making it out to Hawaii anytime soon (29 hour flight at $2,000 a ticket) and we've now realized how cheap it is to stay at other resorts if we just wait for the deals to pop up. Additionally, we've tried to book vacations with HGVC only to find out that there is no availability during the weeks we want. Basically, we're not making use of our property and we're just sucking up maintenance fees. My parents own an excessive amount of RCI points that we have free use of but we're also severely disappointed at those properties (I suppose this is the case when comparing anything to Kingsland), so I have no desire to convert HGVC points to RCI. 

Are there any recommendations on what path to take? We've had many failed discussions with Club Counselors trying to switch properties in order to avoid the high maintenance fees, but the switch only comes with a huge price tag. 

Help.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 30, 2017)

List out your options ... just like which job to take or which house to buy.

The Club Counselors is just a another name for SALESPERSON ... who get NO MONEY from you unless YOUR BUY MORE of product from them. STOP listening, talking and wasting your value vacation time in HOPING for help or good information.

Decide on HOW many weeks of vacation you can afford, where and how long for these timeshare vacations. Then downsize if you have TOO MANY .. but just don't buy ANY MORE. Rent from other TUG members, rent from RCI or try something different, like B&B's or Homeway or visiting relatives by staying with them. IF you want to go repeatly to a NEW timeshare location ... get rid of a week or set of points FIRST, then acquire YOUR new resort via resale transfer. 

Maintenance fees go up yearly ,,, your kids will eat MORE each year, you NEED to save MORE $$$ every year for retirement, then kids start driving cars and needing to go to college. Timeshare vacations are a luxury ... and other owners get TIRED of the same old, same old timeshare vacations... selling or giving YOU their old vacationing options. BUT diverise the old timeshare before getting another... no matter how good of a deal or how free it is .... that all changes when the NEW MAINTENANCE INVOICES come in the mail.


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## JMN Worldwide (Dec 30, 2017)

Thanks for all the Linda. When you say "downsize," I'm ignorant to what that practically means. Since selling a timeshare is like selling a car you bought brand new 15 years later, are you talking "exchanging" or trading?


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## mjm1 (Dec 30, 2017)

If your jobs in the Middle East are only for a few years (not clear from your original post) you should consider renting out your Kingsland unit. Hopefully that would at least cover your maintenance fees or perhaps provide a profit. Then when you return to the US you still have your ownership to use. You can rent your unit on the TUG Marketplace, redweek.com and other sites.

Unfortunately, selling your ownership will result in a loss since you bought directly from the developer. However, if you aren’t interested in keeping it, selling and getting what the market bears may be your best option.

Best regards.

Mike


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## JMN Worldwide (Dec 30, 2017)

Thanks Mike. I'll look into the TUG Marketplace. I like that option (although I did just start digging through the international destinations and was very intrigued by Thailand perhaps in September! That would take care of 6-7000 points anyways)


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## GT75 (Dec 30, 2017)

JMN Worldwide said:


> my wife and I purchased Kingsland 2BR



How many points do you own and which season?       You may already know this but KL has 3 phases.   Phase 1 has the higher point rooms, Phase 2 has the lower point rooms and Phase 3 has a combination of Phase 1 & 2.    In addition, there are 3 different 2 Bds, Regular, Plus & Premier.   The difference in MFs is only about $100 between higher Phase I and lower Phase II 2 Bds.


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## DazedandConfused (Dec 30, 2017)

you can convert to HHonors, use for other HGVC, rent your Hawaii week, or sell the contract


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## JMN Worldwide (Dec 31, 2017)

GT75, I'm honestly not sure which Phase we purchased but we have 10,500 point premium EOY. At the time of upgrade, we were enjoying a "relaxation trip" every year and an "adventure trip" EOY so this plan worked out. 

D&C, we can convert to HH points (only if you book a room immediately it looks like per the new rules despite what all the salespeople say) but that's such a terrible deal although I understand it's better than letting point disappear. I really need to look at the options of renting and how to do it.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 31, 2017)

Downsizing means "reduce" your ownership thru any means possible regarding your yearly ongoing costs. There is very FEW (if any) timeshares brought from the developer where you can in the shortrun get back most or ALL your costs to buy in.

Your direct purchase cost from the developer is an almost always a SUNK cost. 

Even many resale purchases 5-10 years ago is also a SUNK cost now.


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## GT75 (Dec 31, 2017)

JMN Worldwide said:


> not sure which Phase we purchased but we have 10,500 point premium EOY



So you are paying MFs at ~$0.155/point.    This is about average for HGVC.    Basically, my recommendations is like the others, you really should figure out how to utilize these points since these MFs are too bad.   You will not be able to get back much of what you have paid for the initial purchase cost.     Secondly, in order to utilize booking, you will need to start planning and reserving once the booking window opens (for club season this is normally at the 9-month mark for must resorts).  Thirdly, have you consider booking either Italy or Scotland (or Portugal but this is very limited).  You could invite some friend(s) or family to meet you there.


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## knagel (Dec 31, 2017)

JMN Worldwide said:


> GT75, I'm honestly not sure which Phase we purchased but we have 10,500 point premium EOY. At the time of upgrade, we were enjoying a "relaxation trip" every year and an "adventure trip" EOY so this plan worked out.
> 
> D&C, we can convert to HH points (only if you book a room immediately it looks like per the new rules despite what all the salespeople say) but that's such a terrible deal although I understand it's better than letting point disappear. I really need to look at the options of renting and how to do it.



Mine shows that if you convert current years points to HH for the following year that a hotel booking does noted to happen.  It is only if you are converting current years club points to HH points for the current year.  So if you convert remaining club points by 12/31 this year for next years use you not need to make booking.

Not sayin this is a wise option, but it is still an option.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 31, 2017)

JMN Worldwide said:


> So my wife and I purchased Kingsland 2BR (rather upgraded after owning another in Hawaii) in 2010 and were taking advantage of the travel opportunities at explorean kohunlich, Vegas, and an Alaska cruise (terrible use of points) at the time. However, our job situation now has us living in the Middle East where we have minimal desire to make a long flight back to the states for an HGVC resort. As it appears, we won't be making it out to Hawaii anytime soon (29 hour flight at $2,000 a ticket) and we've now realized how cheap it is to stay at other resorts if we just wait for the deals to pop up. Additionally, we've tried to book vacations with HGVC only to find out that there is no availability during the weeks we want. Basically, we're not making use of our property and we're just sucking up maintenance fees. My parents own an excessive amount of RCI points that we have free use of but we're also severely disappointed at those properties (I suppose this is the case when comparing anything to Kingsland), so I have no desire to convert HGVC points to RCI.
> 
> Are there any recommendations on what path to take? We've had many failed discussions with Club Counselors trying to switch properties in order to avoid the high maintenance fees, but the switch only comes with a huge price tag.
> 
> Help.


Others have made some good suggestions, so I will only make one which is the advice that I would give to anyone who wants to get the maximum use and benefit from timeshares at hard to get into resorts.  When the booking window for the resort you want opens up you need to BOOK IT IMMEDIATELY.  Usually that is 9 months to the day before check in.  It seems like Italy is not too far from where you are and Portugal and Scotland are reasonably close.


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## JMN Worldwide (Jan 1, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Others have made some good suggestions, so I will only make one which is the advice that I would give to anyone who wants to get the maximum use and benefit from timeshares at hard to get into resorts.  When the booking window for the resort you want opens up you need to BOOK IT IMMEDIATELY.  Usually that is 9 months to the day before check in.  It seems like Italy is not too far from where you are and Portugal and Scotland are reasonably close.


Thanks everyone for your insight. I'll keep this on the mind. I'm currently looking at Koh Samui or Tuscany for September. Any experience with either of these? (I'll do my own forum search too but figured I'd open the discussion window if someone is excited to share here)

Again, thanks for everyone's input. 

Jason


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## Mosescan (Jan 22, 2018)

Having been to Thailand and seeing how inexpensive everything is there I would say that it is a bad use of points when you could probably book an equivalent resort for less than your annual maintenance fees. That being said, if you have points that will otherwise go to waste then it's probably a better option than converting them to HH points. I think it's the same for the Mexican properties. The point values are relatively cheap but I would rather stay at an all inclusive in Mexico for 1 or 2 weeks. 

That opinion will change dramatically in about 10 years when I retire and can use my points to stay in a 1 BR for 5 or 6 weeks in the winter! LOL! In that case either option will be great.

Enjoy Thailand and if you get a chance, go up to Chang Mai. We took the night train and it was an awesome trip. We did an overnight trek up into the hill tribe villages.

Great people and fantastic food. don't be afraid to eat local, just make sure it's properly cooked.


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## Cyberc (Jan 22, 2018)

JMN Worldwide said:


> I'm currently looking at Koh Samui or Tuscany for September. Any experience with either of these?
> Jason



I haven't been to Thailand yet, but I have been to Tuscany, Italy. The HGVC hotel there is very nice, it has a beautiful scenery and its location is IMHO very local. You do need a car to get around. The hotel should be used as a base when visiting the sites in Tuscany. If I had enough points I would go there every year but as with everything else in life I need to prioritize my use of points. 

One thing to keep in mind, the hotel does not have any restaurants onsite nor is it family oriented as there are zero activities for families. As most who visit tuscany are there for the tourist sites then that might not be that big of a deal.


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## brp (Jan 28, 2018)

Cyberc said:


> I haven't been to Thailand yet, but I have been to Tuscany, Italy. The HGVC hotel there is very nice, it has a beautiful scenery and its location is IMHO very local. You do need a car to get around. The hotel should be used as a base when visiting the sites in Tuscany. If I had enough points I would go there every year but as with everything else in life I need to prioritize my use of points.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, the hotel does not have any restaurants onsite nor is it family oriented as there are zero activities for families. As most who visit tuscany are there for the tourist sites then that might not be that big of a deal.



We've looked at Scotland, but this also requires a (wrong side of the road ) car. Very good location as a base for Whisky tasting. But then there's that wrong side of the road driving thing 

Cheers.


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## Mosescan (Jan 28, 2018)

brp said:


> We've looked at Scotland, but this also requires a (wrong side of the road ) car. Very good location as a base for Whisky tasting. But then there's that wrong side of the road driving thing
> 
> Cheers.


LOL! It gets even more complicated than that. Most of the cars over there are standard, so not only are you driving on the wrong side of the road, but shifting with the wrong hand! I constantly put my windshield wipers on when trying to signal! It's not bad once you get used to it. The roads in the UK are ridiculously narrow compared to our roads here in North America.


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## brp (Jan 28, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> LOL! It gets even more complicated than that. Most of the cars over there are standard, so not only are you driving on the wrong side of the road, but shifting with the wrong hand! I constantly put my windshield wipers on when trying to signal! It's not bad once you get used to it. The roads in the UK are ridiculously narrow compared to our roads here in North America.



I've driven over there and, fortunately, the pedal arrangement and the stick positions are the same, even if the other hand. Upper left was still first. I drive only stick here (except for rental cars, of course), and that part was pretty easy to get used to. The road position takes concentration, and roundabouts are a challenge...and then there's the distilleries...

Cheers.


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## CanuckTravlr (Jan 28, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> LOL! It gets even more complicated than that. Most of the cars over there are standard, so not only are you driving on the wrong side of the road, but shifting with the wrong hand! I constantly put my windshield wipers on when trying to signal! It's not bad once you get used to it. The roads in the UK are ridiculously narrow compared to our roads here in North America.



I am quite used to driving on the "wrong" side of the road and using roundabouts in the UK and Caribbean.  Must chuckle and admit that I, too, find the biggest problem is learning to use the right stalk for the turn signals and the left stalk for the washers.  It usually takes a day or two to become a habit again.  Then I have the same problem for a couple of days unlearning it when I get back home!!

I always rent from Hertz.  While most cars are standard, you can certainly upgrade to a category where you are guaranteed an automatic.  It does cost more, but I think it is well worth it.  It is one less thing to have to deal with and you can just focus on keeping to the left.  Plus the car is usually a little larger, so more room to stow luggage out-of-sight.  Used to love having a standard in my cars when I was younger, but all my cars in the last 30 years have been automatics.  I got tired of how sore my left leg got having to constantly use the clutch in heavy Toronto rush-hour traffic!!


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## WinniWoman (Jan 28, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> LOL! It gets even more complicated than that. Most of the cars over there are standard, so not only are you driving on the wrong side of the road, but shifting with the wrong hand! I constantly put my windshield wipers on when trying to signal! It's not bad once you get used to it. The roads in the UK are ridiculously narrow compared to our roads here in North America.




And those hedgerows!


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## Blues (Jan 29, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> Must chuckle and admit that I, too, find the biggest problem is learning to use the right stalk for the turn signals and the left stalk for the washers.  It usually takes a day or two to become a habit again.  Then I have the same problem for a couple of days unlearning it when I get back home!!



My biggest hangup surprised me.  I'm used to looking in the rear-view mirror by looking up and to the right.  By the time I remember to look up and to the *left,* it is sometimes too late to make the maneuver I was planning.  Gets me every time.



> The roads in the UK are ridiculously narrow compared to our roads here in North America.



Amen to that.  Which is how I always concluded my silent prayer whenever I saw a lorry headed my direction on a road that *clearly* was too narrow for both of us.


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## SmithOp (Jan 29, 2018)

My biggest problem driving in UK was worrying about hitting parked cars on the left side.  My peripheral vision was just not accustomed to watching the left side of the car.  I hit a few curbs but never any cars thankfully.

I did get used to the backward shift pattern, ended up shifting 1-2-5 and skipping 3-4 all together.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Arimaas (Jan 29, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I got tired of how sore my left leg got having to constantly use the clutch in heavy Toronto rush-hour traffic!!



Rookie!! I drive a six speed manual in New York City


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## Mosescan (Jan 29, 2018)

Ironically in Canada I consistently drive 20 km/h over the speed limit. That's pretty standard on our highways and usually the police won't bother you at that speed. It drives my wife crazy. In the UK I ALWAYS drive the speed limit. They have so many speed cameras over there and they have average speed cameras as well so I was pretty good at staying within the limits, plus they have reasonable speed limits so not as much of an issue.

But to get back to the original topic, if you are going to return to North America someday and use it for what you originally purchased it for then it may be worth keeping, otherwise you could sell it now at a massive loss compared to retail and buy another resale unit in the future. You'll have to do the math and see if that is worth it to you or whether it's worth "sucking up" maint fees as you say until you can take better advantage of it. 

As others have suggested you could also try RCI for exchanges.

Good luck


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## Mosescan (Jan 29, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> Rookie!! I drive a six speed manual in New York City


You sir are either young or a glutton for punishment. I switched to a tiptronic paddle shifting auto years ago! LOL!


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## CanuckTravlr (Jan 30, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You sir are either young or a glutton for punishment. I switched to a tiptronic paddle shifting auto years ago! LOL!



Amen!!  Couldn't have said it better.  Mine has the tiptronic paddle shifter, too!  Still rarely use it in rush hour.  Hardly a rookie...have had my driver's licence for over half a century and well over 1.5M kilometres under my belt.  And I've driven in NYC traffic in rush hour, too, with both manual and automatic!  And in central LA, Chicago, London, Paris and Rome.  I loved driving on twisty New England roads with a manual and the top down, but not anymore in rush hour in a major city.


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## Arimaas (Jan 30, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> Amen!!  Couldn't have said it better.  Mine has the tiptronic paddle shifter, too!  Still rarely use it in rush hour.  Hardly a rookie...have had my driver's licence for over half a century and well over 1.5M kilometres under my belt.  And I've driven in NYC traffic in rush hour, too, with both manual and automatic!  And in central LA, Chicago, London, Paris and Rome.  I loved driving on twisty New England roads with a manual and the top down, but not anymore in rush hour in a major city.



Lol. I'm neither. Just driving a 15 year old car that still runs pretty good and refuse to spend money when I don't have to. Rather use that money to buy more timeshares 

With the snow here, the manual and FWD does come in handy


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## Mosescan (Jan 30, 2018)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I loved driving on twisty New England roads with a manual and the top down, but not anymore in rush hour in a major city.


Agreed. Driving through the Scottish highlands this summer was amazing and would have been more so in a little manual sports car in the summer time. I managed to make myself motion sick and I was driving, although in my defence it was at night. That was in a van so I can imagine what I would have been driving like with a sports car. The daytime driving was fantastic.

After 3 years living and driving in Toronto I don't know that I will own a manual car again, at least until the kids are grown and I'm spending their inheritance!


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## thare (Jan 30, 2018)

If you are in ME for a few years, with EOY it is probably just worth holding on to it.  Use your points for Europe, or swap for a mediocre RCI resort. There are a bunch in Europe, while not fantastic, at least you can get a little use out of it.  I think the SE asia spots are a rip off, considering hotel prices, but worst case that is an easy option to burn points.   Remember you can easily splurge and pull/push points for the year and get something like 2 x 2BR at the same resort and just burn points.  Given the average contract in the ME is 3 years, should be doable to hold on to it.

If the move to ME is permanent, just dump it if you aren't using it. Take the loss and if you decide to move back to the US and want to buy HGVC, buy resale (probably at nearly the same price you sold at).


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