# ARDA fee in our renewal and online - no opt out



## JHTUG (Nov 3, 2013)

Hi,
I'm in the process of paying for our annual HGVC maintenance fee.  I noticed the ARDA is automatically calculate into the total.  While attempting to pay online, I see they don't even have an option to opt out.  Is this an income generating maneuver hoping people don't pay attention?  In the past there was a way to uncheck that "voluntary fee"?  Did others have success not paying this fee?

Thanks


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## timeos2 (Nov 3, 2013)

At our resorts if the "opt out" checkbox isn't available we just reduce the payment by the "voluntary" amount. Never had a problem after that. It does seem that ARDA encourages resorts to make the fee seem standard.


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## JHTUG (Nov 3, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> At our resorts if the "opt out" checkbox isn't available we just reduce the payment by the "voluntary" amount. Never had a problem after that. It does seem that ARDA encourages resorts to make the fee seem standard.




Thanks for confirming.  Do you by chance make payment through the mail and take out the fee if paying by check or do you pay online?  I tried to do it online as I have been for several years but even the online is now missing the opt out box they used to have.


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## DeniseM (Nov 3, 2013)

Either way, simply deduct the fee before paying.  They want you to pay it, so they don't want to make it obvious.


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## buzglyd (Nov 3, 2013)

I pay it.

ARDA-ROC is active on behalf of owners.

These funds don't go directly to ARDA. 

This is for ARDA-ROC.


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## linsj (Nov 3, 2013)

There's no way to deduct this fee if you pay online. You have to call in or pay by mail. I emailed customer service about this and got this reply, which I posted in the MF thread:

"Thank you for contacting the Hilton Grand Vacations Club. We are currently aware of the error on the website that doesn't allow for members to opt out of paying the $5.00 voluntary ARDA fee. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and are diligently working to rectify this error. In the meantime, if you would like to make a payment without the Voluntary ARDA fee, please contact us by phone at 1-888-875-4479, and a representative will be more than happy to assist you."

I don't expect it to be fixed before MFs are due.


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## Fern Modena (Nov 3, 2013)

I don't think it is an error, and I don't think they will fix it until hell freezes over.  Most people will figure it is too much trouble to opt out, and will pay it. NOT ME.

Fern



linsj said:


> There's no way to deduct this fee if you pay online. You have to call in or pay by mail. I emailed customer service about this and got this reply, which I posted in the MF thread:
> 
> "Thank you for contacting the Hilton Grand Vacations Club. We are currently aware of the error on the website that doesn't allow for members to opt out of paying the $5.00 voluntary ARDA fee. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and are diligently working to rectify this error. In the meantime, if you would like to make a payment without the Voluntary ARDA fee, please contact us by phone at 1-888-875-4479, and a representative will be more than happy to assist you."
> 
> I don't expect it to be fixed before MFs are due.


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## Fern Modena (Nov 3, 2013)

*Do I Pay ARDA Fee?*

I've never paid the (escalating) ARDA Fee, even when it was only a dollar or two.

Why?  ARDA, The American Resort Development Association, is mainly a trade organization, representing Developers and related vendors, etc. Yes, they also have created ARDA-ROC, the "Resort Owners Coalition." But of ARDA-ROC dues payers have no representation in ARDA, and cannot become members of ARDA. Doesn't seem very fair, does it?

Sure, ARDA has backed legislation which has stopped jurisdictions of forcing hotel taxes on timeshares, and other taxes. But let me tell you, any time ARDA decides to back an issue, it helps its developer members more than it helps you. Because of this, I choose not to pay the "voluntary" ARDA-ROC Contribution.

Fern


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 3, 2013)

The unscrupulous advertising sites with high upfront fees are part of ARDA.  I will name one: Sell My Timeshare Now.  Despicable company, charges a lot of money for advertising on their site, and they don't care whether the person who advertises and pays the fees get any action on their ads at all.  

So ARDA may have some good companies, but there are a lot of really horrible companies who claim to be members of ARDA.  Big turnoff.


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## Bwolf (Nov 4, 2013)

Anyone who thinks paying the ARDA-ROC fee is in any way helpful to owners ought to consider paying that fee instead to TUG, which is helpful to owners.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 4, 2013)

HGVC site used to have an opt out check mark.  That would have to mean that the took away that functionality that was there.  So NOT an error, but perhaps an oversight.


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## Passepartout (Nov 4, 2013)

My resorts 'voluntarily' separate out the ARDA 'contribution', so I 'voluntarily' subtract the line item from the MF payment and send the check.


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## JHTUG (Nov 4, 2013)

linsj said:


> There's no way to deduct this fee if you pay online. You have to call in or pay by mail. I emailed customer service about this and got this reply, which I posted in the MF thread:
> 
> "Thank you for contacting the Hilton Grand Vacations Club. We are currently aware of the error on the website that doesn't allow for members to opt out of paying the $5.00 voluntary ARDA fee. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and are diligently working to rectify this error. In the meantime, if you would like to make a payment without the Voluntary ARDA fee, please contact us by phone at 1-888-875-4479, and a representative will be more than happy to assist you."
> 
> I don't expect it to be fixed before MFs are due.



Thanks for clarifying.  I agree, these coalitions are focused on generating the industry more money, not fighting for the benefits of owners.  Not very different than tobacco company lobbyists.  

Also agree that they are not likely to "Fix" the online issue of not being able to elect out.  If the $10 fee went to TUG then I'd happily pay it but not to ARDA.

Thanks Everyone!


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## buzglyd (Nov 4, 2013)

You can see how it's helping owners here:

http://www.ardaroc.org/roc/home.aspx

The tax man is always after the HOAs.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 4, 2013)

heck yea, how do we get them to add a line for a $5 donation to TUG to help owners =)

id actually prefer just a line telling folks to go to the forums, vs a momentary donation...as that would be far more beneficial to all those who saw it!

Its sad that they can so easily insert this line so that it reaches 100% of timeshare owners every year, but they cant include a warning to avoid upfront fees and other common scams in the industry that give it such a bad name.


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## Islander7 (Nov 4, 2013)

"Its sad that they can so easily insert this line so that it reaches 100% of timeshare owners every year, but they cant include a warning to avoid upfront fees and other common scams in the industry that give it such a bad name."

At least one has. The following is right off the HGVC landing page:

"What should you do if you are contacted with an offer to rent or sell your timeshare? 
Be Cautious. Legitimate resale and listing companies do not collect an up-front fee.

Gather Information. Gather specific information about the company calling you, including the name of the company, the full name of the individual, the number they are calling you from and the day and time of the call(s).

Know your rights. Often these companies are calling you in violation of do-not-call laws. If your number is on the do not call list and you have not done business with the calling company, you may have reason to file a complaint against the company with your state do-not-call regulatory agency and/or the FTC.

Check the Validity of the Offer. Also, you may call Hilton Grand Vacations at 1-800-932-4482 to confirm whether the offer is from Hilton Grand Vacations.

Report the Incident. If you have been contacted by a third party falsely claiming a relationship with Hilton or falsely claiming to have received information about you from Hilton, we want to know. You can report the incident by calling 1-800-932-4482."


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## Passepartout (Nov 4, 2013)

JHTUG said:


> Thanks for clarifying.  I agree, these coalitions are focused on generating the industry more money, not fighting for the benefits of owners.  Not very different than tobacco company lobbyists.
> 
> Also agree that they are not likely to "Fix" the online issue of not being able to elect out.  *If the $10 fee went to TUG then I'd happily pay* it but not to ARDA.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!



I see that you are a Guest here. You are certainly welcome to stay and your input is appreciated, but to MANY of us, the $15 to join TUG and have access to all the reviews, the Distressed and Sightings of hard-to-find TSs ake membership a true bargain.

At no extra cost, you get the warm, fuzzy feeling of helping TUG get out the word about not paying exorbitant upfront fees and all the other things TUG does.

Just think about it. Thanks.

Jim

P.S. members also have the prestigious Member under their username identifying them as true experts in all things timeshare and drinkers of the Kool-Aid.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 4, 2013)

Islander7 said:


> "Its sad that they can so easily insert this line so that it reaches 100% of timeshare owners every year, but they cant include a warning to avoid upfront fees and other common scams in the industry that give it such a bad name."
> 
> At least one has. The following is right off the HGVC landing page:
> 
> ...



that on the website, or included in the annual maintenance fee bill?


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## dvc_john (Nov 4, 2013)

It must be fixed now, because I see an opt-out check box by each of my contracts.


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## linsj (Nov 4, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> that on the website, or included in the annual maintenance fee bill?



On the website.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 4, 2013)

ah, yea...I believe many resorts have included (at least somewhere) a blurb about upfront fee scams.

I just wish they all took a stance against them, its not like it would be that difficult if they truly wanted to make an effort to educate owners.


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## csxjohn (Nov 4, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> ah, yea...I believe many resorts have included (at least somewhere) a blurb about upfront fee scams.
> 
> I just wish they all took a stance against them, its not like it would be that difficult if they truly wanted to make an effort to educate owners.



I thought this one had a warning about the upfront fee companies but I don't see it now.  They do have two links to TUG on the lower right under "Popular timesharing links."

http://daytonaresort.net/

I've traded into this resort a few times and alway check for the coupons link when I'm going to be in the area.  They maintain a website that IMO is useful to visitors of the resort.


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## HatTrick (Nov 5, 2013)

dvc_john said:


> It must be fixed now, because I see an opt-out check box by each of my contracts.



Same here.


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## pedro47 (Nov 6, 2013)

I would write ARDA and asked them is this a mandatory fee or a voluntary fee for a resort to charge;  just to play devil advocate ?


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## PigsDad (Nov 6, 2013)

pedro47 said:


> I would write ARDA and asked them is this a mandatory fee or a voluntary fee for a resort to charge;  just to play devil advocate ?


What authority would ARDA have to make it a mandatory fee?  

Kurt


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## pedro47 (Nov 6, 2013)

PigsDad said:


> What authority would ARDA have to make it a mandatory fee?
> 
> Kurt



The question is...  should a resort list this as a mandatory fee as a part of the maint fee that was the first question on this thread.


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## buzglyd (Nov 6, 2013)

It's not a mandatory fee.

It has always been a voluntary fee.

HGVC corrected the issue.

We're talking about five bucks here.


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## PigsDad (Nov 6, 2013)

pedro47 said:


> The question is...  should a resort list this as a mandatory fee as a part of the maint fee that was the first question on this thread.


Ok, I misread your previous post.  I thought it was well established that HGVC admitted that there was an error on the website.  After all, the MF bill I received in the mail indicated the fee was voluntary.

Kurt


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## BocaBoy (Nov 7, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> I pay it.
> 
> ARDA-ROC is active on behalf of owners.
> 
> ...



Thank you for posting this.  I have been vilified here on TUG for making similar statements in the past.  Unfortunately, many who slam it truly have no idea what ARDA-ROC does.


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## Resort Guy (Nov 7, 2013)

*Arda-roc*

While I believe that it should be optional (or at least voted upon by your membership) ARDA-ROC is a great organization that exists to benefit timeshare OWNERS.  I just spent time with these folks at the Timeshare Board Members Assn (TBMA) meeting and they truly are on your side to stop unfair taxes, scammers, and to promote the positives of timeshare.

If you're part of a board run resort, please get to Orlando in May and learn what these guys do.    Check out the TBMA at www.tbmassoc.com


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## channimal (Nov 7, 2013)

by the way... I have a check box for Arda in my online MF bill.


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## bauerej (Nov 7, 2013)

*Initiate Electronic Payment from your bank*

I am a HGVC owner, and always pay my MFs electronically.  However, I initiate the payment from my bank via the electronic bill pay option. So I can make the payment any amount I want, and exclude this "voluntary" contribution.  That also prevents HGVC from having electronic access to my account information.

This is generally a good policy for any electronic payments - initiate them from your bank rather than the payee whenever possible.


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## buzglyd (Nov 7, 2013)

Resort Guy said:


> While I believe that it should be optional (or at least voted upon by your membership) ARDA-ROC is a great organization that exists to benefit timeshare OWNERS.  I just spent time with these folks at the Timeshare Board Members Assn (TBMA) meeting and they truly are on your side to stop unfair taxes, scammers, and to promote the positives of timeshare.
> 
> If you're part of a board run resort, please get to Orlando in May and learn what these guys do.    Check out the TBMA at www.tbmassoc.com



I was at TBMA as well. Alas, I had such a brutal cold, I had to bug out early.


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## buzglyd (Nov 7, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> Thank you for posting this.  I have been vilified here on TUG for making similar statements in the past.  Unfortunately, many who slam it truly have no idea what ARDA-ROC does.



I've spent countless hours volunteering my time on several owner's committees. 

I will be in DC next week for the same purpose.


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## Talent312 (Nov 7, 2013)

bauerej said:


> This is generally a good policy for any electronic payments -
> initiate them from your bank rather than the payee whenever possible.



Certainly better than giving the payee authority and data to make draws.
But I'm not sure the payee cannot get access to your account anyway.
They may have access to enuff data (routing+account) to initiate a transfer.

Just like a waitress who takes your CC to the back room, someone at the
payee's office could likely find a way to make use of your account info.

That's why I have nearly all of my bills, including MF's, charged to a CC...
Any fraud there affects only the CC balance, not my bank account.

.


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## bankr63 (Nov 11, 2013)

*Foreigners must opt out*

Another wrinkle to ARDA-ROC is that AFAIK they are a registered PAC.  At least I read that several years ago; I think here on TUG.  I have always refused to pay because it is illegal for foreign nationals to support a US PAC.  Can't have us Canajuns messing around with 'Mercun politiks... 

Now it might actually be easier to avoid the hoops I need to go through to refuse the charge and just pay. I wouldn't mind if I thought they were doing some good, and I wasn't breaking the law by supporting them.


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## Ken555 (Nov 11, 2013)

For those who support ARDA please tell them to encourage their member resorts to advocate contributions by the resort owners in a way that makes it more transparent. As it is, any organization that includes a contribution to a third party immediately attracts my attention, since if the organization is truly beneficial to us, then they should be able to gather support through other means. Having our resorts collect a fee with MF does make sense, lowers their administrative costs, and increases predictable revenue. But, the manner in which this is done is not good. If my other HOAs (non-timeshare) did similarly with other organizations which support their/our interests, there would be a large outcry of disbelief. How is it that these types of revenue generating policies have been accepted by the timeshare community for so long? I don't get it. I suspect most just ignore the $5 on their bill, and pay it.


Sent from my iPad


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## TUGBrian (Nov 11, 2013)

> I suspect most just ignore the $5 on their bill, and pay it.



I would imagine this is the case also.

id certainly feel alot better about it if the box were UNCHECKED by default, and you had to check it to submit the money...not opt out.

I have no problem with folks donating to ARDA-ROC...as long as they are aware they are doing so.


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