# [ 2018 ] Is your dog really a service animal?



## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2018)

I've seen this topic discussed before and wanted to share how this resort is handling the issue. In this letter the resort references both Colorado law and also the ADA law several times.






Dear RCI Exchange Guest,

We look forward to hosting you for your upcoming vacation through RCI.

Recently, we have had several RCI guest families attempt to check in for vacation with emotional support animals under the misunderstanding that these animals qualify under federal ADA law.

Under ADA regulation, service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to a person's disability.

Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Please carefully read the policy below. If you have questions, please contact me before arrival. We will not check in guests arriving with non-ADA Service Dogs. Please avoid any inconvenience or disappointment by contacting me in advance.

Sincerely, xxxxx, Front Office Manager

Our Policy is as follows:

SERVICE ANIMALS ARE WELCOME

Service animals are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability. Colorado state regulations prohibit non-service animals from entering the premises. Pets whose function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify under the Americans with Disability Act. Under Colorado law, it is a criminal offense to misrepresent an animal as a service animal. C.R.S. §18-13-107.7.

All guests arriving at Rams Horn Village with a service dog are required to complete the following Record:

ADA Service Animal Record

Rams Horn Village Resort accommodates Service Animals as defined Title II and Title III of the ADA. A service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability.

Under the Act, Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. Under the ADA and Colorado law, owners of public accommodations are not required to allow emotional support animals, only service animals.
The handler is responsible for caring for and supervising the service animal, which includes toileting, feeding, and grooming and veterinary care. The Service Animal must be under the handler's control at all times. It may not be left unattended in a home or other location on the resort.
Under the ADA, the dog must already be trained before it can be taken into public places.
For our Association records, please answer the following two questions and sign below:
(1)  Is the service animal required because of a disability? ___Yes___No
(2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform? ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Guest Name: __________________________
Date: _______________________________
Rams Horn Village Resort Representative: ________________________


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## geist1223 (Jan 7, 2018)

Great idea. I wish more Resorts would do this. Wouldn't it be easier if State/Federal Law required that the Owner carry a License issued by the State or Federal Governent.


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## rapmarks (Jan 7, 2018)

When I was at Costco, a woman attempted to enter with her dog in a doggie stroller.  The card checker stopped her and asked for the papers.  I wish I knew how that turned out.


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## mentalbreak (Jan 7, 2018)

I love this. Protect the right for those that qualify and need it, and keep out  those that don’t have the right to be there.
I hope it is adopted as an industry standard.


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## lizap (Jan 7, 2018)

It has gotten really bad on airlines.


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## klpca (Jan 7, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I've seen this topic discussed before and wanted to share how this resort is handling the issue. In this letter the resort references both Colorado law and also the ADA law several times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's about time.


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## klpca (Jan 7, 2018)

lizap said:


> It has gotten really bad on airlines.


I was waiting in the Southwest gate area in Reno when the CSR came over to ask a woman about her dog (Chihuahua type). She was pretty livid to be asked for proof. She gave the guy a piece of paper and all was good. It was the first time that I thought maybe it really *was* an emotional support dog, and maybe that was a good thing. 

Personally dogs in a plane don't bother me, but I can see how it would be an issue for others.


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## ottawasquaw (Jan 7, 2018)

klpca said:


> I was waiting in the Southwest gate area in Reno when the CSR came over to ask a woman about her dog (Chihuahua type). She was pretty livid to be asked for proof. She gave the guy a piece of paper and all was good. It was the first time that I thought maybe it really *was* an emotional support dog, and maybe that was a good thing.
> 
> Personally dogs in a plane don't bother me, but I can see how it would be an issue for others.


Were the papers for its Service Designation or its ticket? I thought small animals are allowed to travel with passengers. I thought there was a fee for this.


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## klpca (Jan 7, 2018)

ottawasquaw said:


> Were the papers for its Service Designation or its ticket? I thought small animals are allowed to travel with passengers. I thought there was a fee for this.


No idea. I just know that he asked for the papers, she got quite mad and yelled at him, saying that no one else ever asked. But she handed something to him. Then he said thank you and left. She boarded with the dog.


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## clifffaith (Jan 8, 2018)

Wonder if this allows for young dogs in training vests?


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> Great idea. I wish more Resorts would do this. Wouldn't it be easier if State/Federal Law required that the Owner carry a License issued by the State or Federal Governent.


Trained service animals are so important.  Those who claim to have one that isn’t really one, is just wrong.  Everyone who has a service animal should have the appropriate papers to prove that the animal was trained for that purpose.


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## Jan M. (Jan 8, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> Wonder if this allows for young dogs in training vests?





Jan M. said:


> Under the ADA, the dog must already be trained before it can be taken into public places.


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## b2bailey (Jan 8, 2018)

I am in a situation where my friend, and frequent traveling companion has decided to designate her pet as an emotional support animal. She was able to persuade her doctor to write a letter she carries with her. Recently we had plans to spend some time together at Marriott Newport Coast, and she asked me if I would ask about their policy. I wasn't sure if our friendship was going to survive when I told her no. Oh, I forgot -she has not one, but two Yorkies that she takes along. She is going back soon to Newport Coast for a 3 night stay which requires a timeshare presentation. She is planning to take the two dogs.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 8, 2018)

To me all pets are emotional support animals- aren't they?

Sorry- I don't buy into this new trend of having a supposedly "emotional support" animal. I think it is just a fraudulent way people use to be able to take their dogs wherever they want and everyone else be damned.

PS All pets not kept in cages should be "trained".


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## pedro47 (Jan 8, 2018)

I liked that policy and I wish the cruise industry would adopt that policy ASAP!

Can I share this policy with others; without breaking any rules or laws?


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## Jan M. (Jan 8, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> I liked that policy and I wish the cruise industry would adopt that policy ASAP!
> 
> Can I share this policy with others; without breaking any rules or laws?



You are more than welcome to share it.


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## theo (Jan 8, 2018)

I don't know the Rams Horn Village Resort, but I commend and admire those folks for having the courage to confront the issue and cut to the chase.

Legitimate service dogs are wonderful and need no defending, but the whole "emotional support animal" gig is completely out of control and routinely abused (IMnsHO). The most absurd example I've seen to date (you can't make this stuff up) was an "emotional support" *duck* on a commercial flight  (in mid-October, 2016). It was wearing a diaper and it was often seen facing out the window (perhaps looking for unfortunate ducks that had to fly on their own?). I've subsequently seen some photos. If I can find a photo and figure out how to upload it here, I will do so if it's not copyrighted material.

Edited to add: I can't find any esd (emotional support duck) photos that I can upload here. If you doubt my veracity, a Google of "emotional support duck" will promptly reveal *numerous* photos taken by people on that flight. The duck apparently was named "Daniel" and he reportedly served to calm his person down from "the stress of airline travel".
As I said already, you can't make this stuff up!


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## ssreward (Jan 8, 2018)

Love & support the idea but I'm surprised at one of their examples of service animals: "Examples of such work or tasks include.....calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack" seems to be the exact definition of an emotional support animal. So I guess it's obvious why there's so much confusion & grey area, lol!


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## bbodb1 (Jan 8, 2018)

ottawasquaw said:


> Were the papers for its Service Designation or its ticket? I thought small animals are allowed to travel with passengers. I thought there was a fee for this.



Southwest is indeed allowing this - in their current magazine in the seats (the in flight magazine) SouthWest has a couple of articles promoting the airline as being furry friendly and they do mention a fee.  On our recent flight, we saw a couple bring a cute long earred dachshund on board but they did have a proper carrier that would fit under the seat.


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## PigsDad (Jan 8, 2018)

ssreward said:


> Love & support the idea but I'm surprised at one of their examples of service animals: "Examples of such work or tasks include.....calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack" seems to be the exact definition of an emotional support animal. So I guess it's obvious why there's so much confusion & grey area, lol!


The difference is that a service dog is TRAINED to do the specific task the owner needs for PTSD (in this example), instead of just being a pet that the owner likes having around.  I doubt the "emotional support animal" could detect when the owner was in trouble and then focus on the person and perform its task to help calm them down.  Big difference, IMO.

Kurt


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## tschwa2 (Jan 8, 2018)

This policy still allows pet owners to lie, it just spells out the requirement for the ADA provisions and requires the person to sign the acknowledgment.  I think it is a good idea and may discourage some and perhaps those that don't realize emotional support dogs do not qualify.  I see this is sent  this out to RCI guests before the guests/owners arrive but it should also be sent to owners and their guests.  The resort is still powerless to do anything if a guest signs the form stating the dog is service dog.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> The difference is that a service dog is TRAINED to do the specific task the owner needs for PTSD (in this example), instead of just being a pet that the owner likes having around.  I doubt the "emotional support animal" could detect when the owner was in trouble and then focus on the person and perform its task to help calm them down.  Big difference, IMO.
> 
> Kurt


Perfectly said


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## klpca (Jan 8, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Southwest is indeed allowing this - in their current magazine in the seats (the in flight magazine) SouthWest has a couple of articles promoting the airline as being furry friendly and they do mention a fee.  On our recent flight, we saw a couple bring a cute long earred dachshund on board but they did have a proper carrier that would fit under the seat.


I sat next to an adorable French Bulldog from Baltimore to San Diego. I forgot he was there until he snored. Apparently he had been given some drugs because his owner said that the flight from SD to Baltimore hadn't gone so well. He barked the whole time.

My daughter brought her cat on Southwest when she moved home. His carrier looks like a duffle bag with a porthole and no one noticed until she was getting off the plane. Everyone wanted a picture. It looked like this but was plain khaki: https://pin.it/gbqwennkyww3rz


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## ssreward (Jan 8, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> The difference is that a service dog is TRAINED to do the specific task the owner needs for PTSD (in this example), instead of just being a pet that the owner likes having around.  I doubt the "emotional support animal" could detect when the owner was in trouble and then focus on the person and perform its task to help calm them down.  Big difference, IMO.
> 
> Kurt


Exactly, a service dog is trained for a specific task. Dogs related to mental heath conditions are emotional support dogs by definition - there’s no specific training a dog can be given that gives it any more/better ability to calm over an untrained dog. Even the VA says PTSD dogs are emotional support not service & I’d think they know what they’re talking about.


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## cp73 (Jan 8, 2018)

I am so tired of seeing people take their dogs into stores. Yesterday in Macys a young couple had a big dog. No way was it any type of service dog. I then saw the dog rolling on the carpet like it was scratching itself. At Christmas time I was in Nordstrom and saw the same thing. I mentioned it to the clerk and she said yes dogs are allowed in Nordstrom and yes they have accidents all the time. Too many rich people bringing their dogs with them. She was sick of it also. Home depot it probably the worst. Dogs belong at home. All the more reason to buy online. If I ever see a UPS driver with a dog in his truck I will scream.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

ssreward said:


> Exactly, a service dog is trained for a specific task. Dogs related to mental heath conditions are emotional support dogs by definition - there’s no specific training a dog can be given that gives it any more/better ability to calm over an untrained dog. Even the VA says PTSD dogs are emotional support not service & I’d think they know what they’re talking about.


But a service dog that is trained is likely to know when the owner is in emotional distress and come over to give comfort.  Any other dog “might be” or might not be smart enough to realize it. Yes, that dog gives the owner comfort by just having the company but that is not a service dog.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

cp73 said:


> I am so tired of seeing people take their dogs into stores. Yesterday in Macys a young couple had a big dog. No way was it any type of service dog. I then saw the dog rolling on the carpet like it was scratching itself. At Christmas time I was in Nordstrom and saw the same thing. I mentioned it to the clerk and she said yes dogs are allowed in Nordstrom and yes they have accidents all the time. Too many rich people bringing their dogs with them. She was sick of it also. Home depot it probably the worst. Dogs belong at home. All the more reason to buy online. If I ever see a UPS driver with a dog in his truck I will scream.


I love dogs. Every dog that meets me loves me too.  I realize where I love dogs many do not and are afraid of them.  A service dog will not bother anyone for no reason, non service dogs will. Stores need to be aware they can lose customers because of this.


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## Retiresoon (Jan 8, 2018)

In Washington state I am told clerks in stores cannot by law ask a customer anything about their dog brought in the store. (That's Washington for you) I am one who believes a dog should be treated like a dog and not put above people.  My local newspaper even stated DOGS ARE PEOPLE TOO... whaaat?While shopping one day, a customer freaked out over a dog and became extremely upset to the point the whole store heard her. I heard her sister say she had PTSD from a bad dog attack. I felt bad for her.  I realize dogs are supportive to their owners, or owners just want them with them as a companion but these fake "service dogs" are out of control. I know someone who's doctor gave her a letter designating the dog as a support dog, who was simply a dog with no training whatsoever.


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## ssreward (Jan 8, 2018)

Panina said:


> But a service dog that is trained is likely to know when the owner is in emotional distress and come over to give comfort.  Any other dog “might be” or might not be smart enough to realize it. Yes, that dog gives the owner comfort by just having the company but that is not a service dog.


I’m confused as to how you think a dog is capable of “giving comfort” beyond just having the company. Last I checked, they’re not particularly well known for their skills in talk therapy or gin rummy  Basically, it’s a service dog vs a support dog if the owner says so which is why abuse is rampant. There’s no standards for training, agreement on legitimate tasks, or central licensing agency so there’s really no way to enforce anything.


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## bbodb1 (Jan 8, 2018)

cp73 said:


> I am so tired of seeing people take their dogs into stores. Yesterday in Macys a young couple had a big dog. No way was it any type of service dog. I then saw the dog rolling on the carpet like it was scratching itself. At Christmas time I was in Nordstrom and saw the same thing. I mentioned it to the clerk and she said yes dogs are allowed in Nordstrom and yes they have accidents all the time. Too many rich people bringing their dogs with them. She was sick of it also. Home depot it probably the worst. Dogs belong at home. All the more reason to buy online. If I ever see a UPS driver with a dog in his truck I will scream.



Now as someone who cannot imagine life without their pets, let me add that it is an entirely different thing to bring pets into public places.  I've seen a good number of dogs in stores as well recently and never gave the matter a second thought until I encountered a dog who was very skittish around people.  Why that dog owner took the risk of bringing such an animal into a store is beyond me because not only did it potentially endanger other customers, it also endangered the life of the dog had something unfortunate occurred.


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## bbodb1 (Jan 8, 2018)

Retiresoon said:


> In Washington state I am told clerks in stores cannot by law ask a customer anything about their dog brought in the store. (That's Washington for you) I am one who believes a dog should be treated like a dog and not put above people.  My local newspaper even stated DOGS ARE PEOPLE TOO... whaaat?*While shopping one day, a customer freaked out over a dog and became extremely upset to the point the whole store heard her. I heard her sister say she had PTSD from a bad dog attack. I felt bad for her*.  I realize dogs are supportive to their owners, or owners just want them with them as a companion but these fake "service dogs" are out of control. I know someone who's doctor gave her a letter designating the dog as a support dog, who was simply a dog with no training whatsoever.



I agree with you on the point about fake service dogs, but in the example you cited the freaking customer seems to be the party with an issue.  To be fair though, I would not think of bringing my dogs into any store other than a PetSmart (or something similar).


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## PigsDad (Jan 8, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> I agree with you on the point about fake service dogs, but in the example you cited the freaking customer seems to be the party with an issue.  To be fair though, I would not think of bringing my dogs into any store other than a PetSmart (or something similar).


So if I bring my pet lion into a store where you are and you get frightened by it, that's your problem, not mine?

Similar situation here.  You seem to think having a fear of dogs is not rational.  But dogs are animals, and can (and do!) cause injury to humans.  As a person who had previously been injured by a dog, I find it perfectly rational for that person to be scared and react to an untrained dog (i.e. non-service dog) running around in a store where one doesn't expect them to be.

But that's just me...

Kurt


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## clifffaith (Jan 8, 2018)

Re: dogs on airplanes. I imagine I'm the only Tugger who had the displeasure of smelling Daryl Hannah's dog's poop in First Class one time. To her credit she did get up and take the carrier & dog to the restroom.  I spent some time on explore.org's Great Dane service dog cam a couple years ago when there was a new batch of puppies. The first thing I asked was how GDs could be a service dog, aren't they too big for airplanes? The response was that I'd be surprised how small a space they could fold themselves in to. Seems to me that any large service animal would have to have their own seat. No way there's room for a large dog of any kind, particularly in coach, unless possibly in a bulkhead aisle.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2018)

So the policy is the same as it’s always been: my dog is a service dog if I say it is and have an answer to the question: what task is the dog trained to do?


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## isisdave (Jan 8, 2018)

And the TRAINING that service dogs get include things like "don't bark" and "don't pay any attention to other animals or people." I've seen "emotional support" dogs that yap anytime something interesting happens, and even a couple that wanted to attack other dogs, who happened to outweigh them about 4-to-1 and were looking on with puzzlement. Some support!


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## jme (Jan 8, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> To me all pets are emotional support animals- aren't they?
> 
> Sorry- I don't buy into this new trend of having a supposedly "emotional support" animal. I think it is just a fraudulent way people use to be able to take their dogs wherever they want and everyone else be damned.
> PS All pets not kept in cages should be "trained".



Animals should not be on a timeshare property, period, UNLESS it's a TRUE service dog, like for the blind, and that's the ONLY reason I personally accept as valid. It's for humans, their human guests, and children.  Use a kennel.

We had dogs but never took them on vacation. If someone wants to buy their own place, like a beach house, then fine, but subjecting others to what is left behind (and it is!), not to mention the cleaning fees like carpet cleaning (not inexpensive, and unfairly passed on to all other owners) HAS NO PLACE.

IMHO, it's the height of selfishness and non-concern.  It's TOTALLY been abused, and now it's out of hand----
just another politically-correct policy that has gone crazy.  I predict it'll be rejected soon----too many people DO NOT LIKE IT,
and they shouldn't be subjected.  Sorry pet-lovers, but leave them at home, or don't go.  I have no tolerance, and no sympathy.

When you're invited to a big party, do you take your pet?  I can only imagine the looks (and requests) you'd get....YET, you think it's OK to take a pet into a condominium-type resort where you're only one guest in a series of stays????


EDIT (addition): 
I live and work as a healthcare provider, and allergic reactions cannot only be serious, but deadly. Some people actually don't realize this. I know, I know, this would be rare in a timeshare setting, but it's NOT beyond happening. Can you imagine seeing your CHILD suddenly go into convulsions, stop breathing, and die? Any, and I repeat, ANY allergen can do that, IF that victim is allergic to it.  Peanuts, dog hair, whatever.

Anaphylactic shock from an allergen can cause throat swelling and sudden death, and we live with that possibility every day in my practice....BUT we do take precautions. And we DO NOT *CREATE* situations whereby it can happen---
we eliminate them.
That's exactly what people do when they take pets into "home" situations---they CREATE a scenario that may have grave potential, and a timeshare vacation is just the setting whereby you stay, but don't know who stayed there before you.

And on the other hand (not "medical emergency"), as for sheer cleanliness, shampooing a carpet is not enough. A dog sits all over sofas, chairs, beds, and NO ONE can tell me they don't, yet those surfaces are never cleaned....and if they ARE cleaned hypothetically, they aren't cleaned effectively....it's not possible to remove
"that stuff" 100%.  

Dogs lick themselves, then lick other things, including their owners--how cute(?)
And they *sit* such that they rub their rear ends directly on a sofa, chair, bed, etc., and what you get is not worth describing. Those areas are not seen afterward, but they're there.  (Next guests simply don't know!) And it's never cleaned!  It's disgusting, and reprehensible. So, eradicate the source. NO DOGS ALLOWED!  If and when I serve on a timeshare board, that single item will be my calling, and I will win.

Again I say, it should be avoided, prohibited, done deal!!!  AND, if a timeshare resort has to clean a unit, that expense should 100% be paid by the owner who took the animal.....right now it's a FREE privilege to take one----so, be fair and PAY for it! Who are you that you demand a privilege that costs others in cold cash from a maintenance fee add-on?????  (I'm not getting better, I'm getting madder.)

It's no problem loving your pet.  Just don't bring them and affront others with your selfish abuse. In the least, it's intellectually dishonest.

Owners, speak up, and don't relent. Demand YOUR rights, for many good reasons.
Someone's life might be one.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 8, 2018)

We were just at a Fairfiield Inn- Marriott in NH and it is Pet Friendly and allows pets- do not have to be service or emotional support pets. I was really surprised.

This is their policy:

*Pet Policy*

Pets Welcome
Maximum 2 pets per room
Non-refundable fee: 25
2 pets, 50 pounds max. USD 25 fee per night-cannot be left unattended in room
Contact hotel for details
Well, I love animals, especially dogs, but we were subjected to barking as a dog was in the room next door.

Next year we are staying at the Common Man Inn up there. They are Pet Friendly, but they just have one or two designated rooms and they are at the very far end of the Inn on the ground floor away from everything else. This I have no problem with.


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## clifffaith (Jan 8, 2018)

"Can't be left unattended in room." I can't imagine wanting to travel that way with a pet. MAYBE stopping one night on the way to somewhere, but otherwise, no. 

We actually had a real uncomfortable situation when we stayed at Worldmark Pismo and our friends were at the RV park next door. It was an uncharacteristic 90 degrees the weekend after Memorial Day and they didn't want to leave the dog in the RV with the A/C running and I refused it admittance to our room. When we went to lunch we'd have to find an outdoor spot which meant we were all out in the heat, or back in the corner in what little shade there was because Cliff can't sit in the sun. When we strolled Moro Bay or San Luis Obispo someone had to stay outside with the dog if others wanted to go into a shop. That was the last time we ever suggested traveling together.


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## wilma (Jan 8, 2018)

Retiresoon said:


> In Washington state I am told clerks in stores cannot by law ask a customer anything about their dog brought in the store. (That's Washington for you).



Don’t believe this info is true according to this—
http://www.wla.org/assets/WALE/2015...the Washington Law Against Discrimination.pdf


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## geist1223 (Jan 8, 2018)

As Patti reminded me a properly Trained Service Dog does not normally bark for a long period of time unless there is an Emergency. So the next time we hear a "Service" Dog Barking for a period of time we will call 911. Because obviously some one is in distress.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

ssreward said:


> I’m confused as to how you think a dog is capable of “giving comfort” beyond just having the company. Last I checked, they’re not particularly well known for their skills in talk therapy or gin rummy  Basically, it’s a service dog vs a support dog if the owner says so which is why abuse is rampant. There’s no standards for training, agreement on legitimate tasks, or central licensing agency so there’s really no way to enforce anything.


You made the point, there need  to be legal standards on which dogs are service dogs. 

A service dog with someone who has PTSD is more then company.  They sense when their owner is in distress, being there for the owner, coming over  to the owner can made all the difference.  An untrained dog might never notice.


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## hk4481 (Jan 8, 2018)

jme said:


> Animals should not be on a timeshare property, period, UNLESS it's a TRUE service dog, like for the blind, and that's the ONLY reason I personally accept as valid. It's for humans, their human guests, and children.  Use a kennel.
> 
> We had dogs but never took them on vacation. If someone wants to buy their own place, like a beach house, then fine, but subjecting others to what is left behind (and it is!), not to mention the cleaning fees like carpet cleaning (not inexpensive, and unfairly passed on to all other owners) HAS NO PLACE.
> 
> ...


I agree.  I am allergic to dogs (and cats) and if I'm in a room after a cat or dog has been in it, it could lead to a medical emergency for me.  I've seen people sneak their pets into 'no pets allowed' rooms and think it highly selfish of them because I purposely look for timeshares & hotels that do not allow pets so that I don't put myself in a 'medical emergency' situation.  I wish, too, that pet-friendly hotels would have designated rooms for pets; and also agree that only legit service dogs should be allowed in timeshare resorts. Don't get me wrong, I like dogs, but I don't want to end up in the hospital or emergency room while on vacation due to someone else's lack of concern for others.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

hk4481 said:


> I agree.  I am allergic to dogs (and cats) and if I'm in a room after a cat or dog has been in it, it could lead to a medical emergency for me.  I've seen people sneak their pets into 'no pets allowed' rooms and think it highly selfish of them because I purposely look for timeshares & hotels that do not allow pets so that I don't put myself in a 'medical emergency' situation.  I wish, too, that pet-friendly hotels would have designated rooms for pets; and also agree that only legit service dogs should be allowed in timeshare resorts. Don't get me wrong, I like dogs, but I don't want to end up in the hospital or emergency room while on vacation due to someone else's lack of concern for others.


You are showing how the rights of others can affect your rights.  Allergies are real and can be a danger to your life.  I didn’t think of it until your post, obviously the system didn’t either.


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## silentg (Jan 8, 2018)

Jet Blue charges $100.00 for a pet each way. We don’t have a pet ,but DD and SIL do. Their Pug prefers to stay home and be watched by me or in laws. The only place the dog travels now is to my house.
Silentg


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## jme (Jan 8, 2018)

hk4481 said: ↑
I agree. I am allergic to dogs (and cats) and if I'm in a room after a cat or dog has been in it, it could lead to a medical emergency for me. I've seen people sneak their pets into 'no pets allowed' rooms and think it highly selfish of them because I purposely look for timeshares & hotels that do not allow pets so that I don't put myself in a 'medical emergency' situation. I wish, too, that pet-friendly hotels would have designated rooms for pets; and also agree that only legit service dogs should be allowed in timeshare resorts. Don't get me wrong, I like dogs, but I don't want to end up in the hospital or emergency room while on vacation due to someone else's lack of concern for others.



Panina said:


> You are showing how the rights of others can affect your rights.  Allergies are real and can be a danger to your life.  I didn’t think of it until your post, obviously the system didn’t either.





EDIT (addition) to address above sentiments, plus a few:
I live and work as a healthcare provider, and allergic reactions cannot only be serious, but *deadly*. Some people actually don't realize this. I know, I know, this would be rare in a timeshare setting, but it's NOT beyond happening. Can you imagine seeing your CHILD suddenly go into convulsions, stop breathing, and die? Any, and I repeat, ANY allergen can do that, IF that victim is allergic to it. Peanuts, dog hair, latex, a drug, whatever........literally anything.

Anaphylactic shock from an allergen can cause throat swelling and sudden death, and we live with that possibility every day in my practice....BUT we do take precautions. And we DO NOT *CREATE* situations whereby it can happen---
we eliminate them.
That's exactly what people do when they take pets into "home" situations---they CREATE a scenario that may have grave potential, and a timeshare vacation is just the setting whereby you stay, but don't know who stayed there before you.

And on the other hand (not "medical emergency"), as for sheer cleanliness, shampooing a carpet is not enough. A dog sits all over sofas, chairs, beds, and NO ONE can tell me they don't, yet those surfaces are never cleaned....and if they ARE cleaned hypothetically, they aren't cleaned effectively....it's not possible to remove
"that stuff" 100%.

Dogs lick themselves, then lick other things, including their owners--how cute(?)
And they *sit* such that they rub their rear ends directly on a sofa, chair, bed, etc., and what you get is not worth describing. Those areas are not seen afterward, but they're there. (Next guests simply don't know!) And it's never cleaned! It's disgusting, and reprehensible. So, eradicate the source. NO DOGS ALLOWED! If and when I serve on a timeshare board, that single item will be my calling, and I will win.

Again I say, it should be avoided, prohibited, done deal!!! AND, if a timeshare resort has to clean a unit, that expense should 100% be paid by the owner who took the animal.....right now it's a FREE privilege to take one----so, be fair and PAY for it! Who are you that you demand a privilege that costs others in cold cash from a maintenance fee add-on????? (I'm not getting better, I'm getting madder.)

It's no problem loving your pet. Just don't bring them and affront others with your selfish abuse. In the least, it's intellectually dishonest.

Owners, speak up, and don't relent. Demand YOUR rights, for many good reasons.
Someone's life might be one.


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## ssreward (Jan 8, 2018)

Panina said:


> You made the point, there need  to be legal standards on which dogs are service dogs.
> 
> A service dog with someone who has PTSD is more then company.  They sense when their owner is in distress, being there for the owner, coming over  to the owner can made all the difference.  An untrained dog might never notice.


But you can’t train a dog to “sense”. You can screen ones who do vs those that don’t for a particular person but it’s not a trained behavior. And dogs in public (either trained or not) should never be far enough from their owner to have to “come over”. There’s no definition of “service animal” that allows for unrestrained pets of any form. PTSD is no different than social anxiety or agoraphobia or any of the many other mental heath conditions emotional support animals are prescribed for...it’s the Valium of the new millenium.


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## Panina (Jan 8, 2018)

-


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2018)

Deleted,   Second thoughts


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 8, 2018)

I had a pet therapy dog.  He was my dog, but he was NOT my service dog.  He was however, trained to the  some level service dog skills, and had to pass all kinds of temperament and behavioral tests in order to get into the pet therapy program. 

I could leave him in a down, off lease, at the outside patio of Starbucks.  I could go in and get my coffee etc. and come back and he would still be in a down position.  People would come over and pet his head, but he would not get up.   He also had to be able to take commands from other people of sit and stay etc.   He had to not be a barker, be a social dog and not be anxious or dominant or submission around other dogs. 

So while he was NOT my service dog, he behaved far better than a lot of so call fake service dogs I have seen in stores hotels, and traveling.  But because he was not my service dog, I could not travel with him. 

It makes me angry that so many people are claiming their family pet as a service animal now.  Any service dog would have basic obedience or they would flunk the dog out of training for a service dog.  Family friend had the drug sniffing dog at the border on the Canadian side.  Those dogs are $10,000 to train for that purpose.  Seizure dog is $17000, and a PTSD dog could cost $20,000.  Any dog that is a service dog will be well behaved, PERIOD.  Any dog that has that much specific training can sit and stay, and pay attention. 

Just saying....


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## geist1223 (Jan 9, 2018)

We are not against Pets. We currently have 1 cat and 1 dog. Last week we had to take our 17 year old cat for his last visit to the Vet. Patti had had him since he was a kitten just old enough to leave the Litter. Patti had a hard time for a couple of days. 13 months ago we had to do the same for our almost 16 year old Corgi.

Our DIL in Seattle has a very bad allergy to cats and dogs. We have to make sure we only take freshly washed clothes on visits to Seattle. Several years ago we had Reserved them a Condo at WM Seaside. They were not in the Room more than 5 minutes and they had to leave. She almost had to use her Epi Pen. Obviously some one had had an illegal pet in the Room. Management was able to get them another Room.

When we go Timesharing we hire a Pet/House Sitter that moves into our House.


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## Retiresoon (Jan 9, 2018)

wilma said:


> Don’t believe this info is true according to this—
> http://www.wla.org/assets/WALE/2015WALEConference/Service Animals and the Washington Law Against Discrimination.pdf


Interesting. I wonder why the store clerks tell me that. Possibly it is a store policy. They all specifically tell me they cannot ask questions when a dog is in the store.


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## Patri (Jan 9, 2018)

I saw a large dog in our hardware store. The clerk rolled her eyes. She didn't like it, but felt they had no power to tell the customer to get it out of there.


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## bbodb1 (Jan 9, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> So if I bring my pet lion into a store where you are and you get frightened by it, that's your problem, not mine?
> Kurt



Really?  I don't recall lions ever being domesticated but leaving that aside for now.....



PigsDad said:


> You seem to think having a fear of dogs is not rational.  But dogs are animals, and can (and do!) cause injury to humans.  As a person who had previously been injured by a dog, I find it perfectly rational for that person to be scared and react to an untrained dog (i.e. non-service dog) running around in a store where one doesn't expect them to be.
> 
> But that's just me...
> 
> Kurt



People can (and do) have fears with respect to many things but it is not reasonable for the world to kowtow to every person's fears now is it?  And, there is a quite a difference between a dog running around in a store (which sounds like the dog is loose) versus a dog on a leash.


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## wilma (Jan 9, 2018)

Retiresoon said:


> Interesting. I wonder why the store clerks tell me that. Possibly it is a store policy. They all specifically tell me they cannot ask questions when a dog is in the store.




Because we are now in a new era of people using "alternative facts" to bolster their anti-government rhetoric.....


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## tschwa2 (Jan 9, 2018)

Retiresoon said:


> Interesting. I wonder why the store clerks tell me that. Possibly it is a store policy. They all specifically tell me they cannot ask questions when a dog is in the store.


There are only two questions you can ask- (1) Is the service animal required because of a disability? ___Yes___No
(2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

If the sales person asked the wrong question or asks it incorrectly the store can be open to legal actions.  In the store where I work we are told to ignore the animals and report the customer to a manager if the animal is causing problems.  It is up to the manager to do something and generally won't unless there is some obvious problem and again his hands are tied to asking the two questions and only if number one is answered with a no or number two is not answered can he do anything in most cases unless the animal is attacking someone or making a mess.

In general a store clerk is also not to confront anyone they suspect of stealing- they should report it to a manager or asset protection employee.  The hassle of dealing with those situations beyond reporting them are above the pay grade of the normal store clerk.  Management on the other hand should but usually doesn't bother when it comes to non service animal pets in the store.


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## taterhed (Jan 9, 2018)

A few points:

II. Service Animal Defined by Title II and Title III of the ADA

*A service animal means any dog* *that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability.* Tasks performed can include, among other things, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items, alerting a person to a sound, reminding a person to take medication, or pressing an elevator button.

Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals either. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. It does not matter if a person has a note from a doctor that states that the person has a disability and needs to have the animal for emotional support. A doctor’s letter does not turn an animal into a service animal.

Ed:  I'll point out that the ADA definition specifically addresses PTSD, "...._calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack...."  _

ADA protections apply to SERVICE animals.    (see ADA citation below)
ACAA protections apply to service animals (with the ADA) but *also* apply to emotional support animals (ESA).
FHA and ADA rules apply to housing
EEOC enforces the ADA and applies to the workplace and accommodation. 
IDEA and the ADA apply to educational situations: schools, universities etc...


The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) requires airlines to allow service animals and emotional support animals to accompany their handlers in the cabin of the aircraft. 
The rules differ for SA's and ESA's and are expanded in the citation below. 

*An interesting discussion*:  Are timeshares residential housing occupied by 'owners' or are they public accommodation?  The application of the laws (ADA) applying to service animals in public facilities and accommodations  may be quite different from those laws that apply to housing and reasonable accommodations (FHA).   


If you're really interested and/or feel 'mad' or 'angry' or 'frightened'  or "curious" etc... perhaps you should read some of the material and gain a better understanding.
Point of fact:  the Federal Gov. has (and is) trying to revise the training/certification/documentation requirements for service animals, but has been unsuccessful to date.  Many states (20?) are attempting to crack-down on 'fake' service animals with legislation and enforcement, but the efforts are complicated and often blocked by the current vague and overriding Federal law

As I've said before:  Genuine service animals are not the problem.  It's the people on the "it's all about me" program with their 'eBay' jackets and internet letters that are causing the problems.  Further, I mean no insult to the folks who have a genuine necessity for an ESA, but I highlight the difficulty in drawing a definitive and legal line between "need vs want" and  "nice vs necessary."

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm 
https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet

All IMO, of course....


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## theo (Jan 9, 2018)

wilma said:


> Because we are now in a new era of people using "alternative facts" to bolster their anti-government rhetoric.....



I'm not going to take this conversation in a prohibited political direction and get my typing hand slapped.
I will merely state that this new era of "alternative facts" is certainly not confined to anti-government rhetoric.
Indeed, the notion of "alternative facts" can be found (and may even have its' origins) *within* "government". 

The first time *I* ever heard the phrase "alternative facts"was when it was publicly uttered by a woman by the name of Kellyanne Conway, while defending an absurdly exaggerated estimate of attendance at a public event in Washington D.C. in January, 2017. Make of that observation (and make of that particular person's affiliations) whatever you will.


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## mdurette (Jan 9, 2018)

clifffaith said:


> "Can't be left unattended in room." I can't imagine wanting to travel that way with a pet. MAYBE stopping one night on the way to somewhere, but otherwise, no.
> .



Yes...this!   I love my pets, but seriously....why the heck would I want to be with them 24/7 on vacation since they are not suppose to be left in the room on their own.    It would really prohibit what I would do.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 9, 2018)

taterhed said:


> A few points:
> 
> II. Service Animal Defined by Title II and Title III of the ADA
> 
> *A service animal means any dog* *that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability.* Tasks performed can include, among other things, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items, alerting a person to a sound, reminding a person to take medication, or pressing an elevator button.



Miniature Horses also qualify under ADA guidelines.


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## geekette (Jan 9, 2018)

Panina said:


> But a service dog that is trained is likely to know when the owner is in emotional distress and come over to give comfort.  Any other dog “might be” or might not be smart enough to realize it. Yes, that dog gives the owner comfort by just having the company but that is not a service dog.


Yeah, my dog is a therapy dog for me but is not a trained therapy dog.  I don't attempt to pass her off as anything but my pooch and we don't sneak in where we aren't wanted.


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## geekette (Jan 9, 2018)

> People can (and do) have fears with respect to many things but it is not reasonable for the world to kowtow to every person's fears now is it?  And, there is a quite a difference between a dog running around in a store (which sounds like the dog is loose) versus a dog on a leash.


Yes, there is not likely to be a pack of dogs hunting people in Home Depot.  I guess people that don't have dogs don't realize that they are not always running.  Fluffums has in fact not run today at all and is currently snoozing at my feet.   

I do demand that all stores prohibit spiders of all kinds, tho, because I am terrified of them.


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## easyrider (Jan 9, 2018)

My dog Rex is the offspring of service dogs. He is a hypoallergenic non-shedding Labradoodle. This dog has the instinct to be a great service dog. I thought about taking him to the PAWS training center but decided it was too far away. I really wasn't ever going to take him anywhere it would matter anyway. He can get the remote control, shoes and things I point at most of the time. He only eats out of his bowl. He walks on my right side, heels on command and heels when we get to a curb or obstacle. Rarely barks. Is tolerant of other animals and people. Watches TV. He likes the dog whisper but watches other shows. 

He will growl at cats but doesn't chase them unless he is in the back yard. When he finally cornered a cat he sat down and watched it walk away.

He actually woke me up twice because I wasn't breathing and was having a heart attack. Very often when I wake up he is staring at me. He isn't a service dog but it wouldn't be difficult for him to become one.

Anyway, my point is that you really never know about someones pet and should probably be tolerant. I haven't really noticed a big problem with the service dog scam and we travel quite a bit. I'm certain it happens but I haven't had to deal with a barking dog in any of my timeshares or at any of the hotels we visit. I just personally don't see a big problem.

Bill


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## taterhed (Jan 10, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Miniature Horses also qualify under ADA guidelines.



Yes, you're quite right.  That was the 2011 amended version, and it is cited in the attached ADA sheet.  I didn't bring it up because it detracts from the discussion and raises the inevitable questions about a vast zoological cornucopia of possible service-therapy-support-makesomethingup animals that people have read about/seen/heard or are urban legend. (the flying pig)

To answer the question that someone will ask soon, "why miniature horses," the answer is longevity, sturdiness and cases where canines are not appropriate.

*Miniature Horses*
*In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.* (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.


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## clifffaith (Jan 10, 2018)

geekette said:


> I do demand that all stores prohibit spiders of all kinds, tho, because I am terrified of them.



Local L.A. News had a snip a few minutes ago with a home that had partially  burned because the occupant tried to kill a spider with a blow torch. While we were thinking "good God man, your slipper would have sufficed!" they showed a picture of a wolf spider that looked at least as big as a large tarantula. Seems the spider then ran burning through the house. $10K in damages.


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## cgeidl (Jan 11, 2018)

In San Francisco I have seen several confrontations of service  dogs being on public transportation and having tags. And two instances passengers accused the person of getting them from the Internet and that the dogs were not service dogs. Hard to say one way or another but it seems to me that the emotional support dog issue is almost impossible to deal with as many service   Veterans need dogs to assist them with their emotional being. In  San Francisco there are more handicap tags then total public parking places. I see people jogging to and from their cars where will you live with handicapped tag is hanging in the window. I sometime asked him what their handicap is in generally they appear quite angry to be questioned.


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## chellej (Jan 13, 2018)

I was at Portland airport yesterday waiting for a flight and heard a dog barking nearby.  There was a lady at the restaurant that had high bar tables and she had her little dog in a carrier on the table.  I just kept thinking I wouldn't want to be seated at that table even after they wiped it down...I just don't understand what people think.


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## Nancy (Jan 13, 2018)

I was on a flight where a passenger had her dog eating off the uncovered tray table.


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## jme (Jan 13, 2018)

Nancy said: "I was on a flight where a passenger had her dog eating off the uncovered tray table".

and.....



chellej said:


> I was at Portland airport yesterday waiting for a flight and heard a dog barking nearby.  There was a lady at the restaurant that had high bar tables and she had her little dog in a carrier on the table.  I just kept thinking I wouldn't want to be seated at that table even after they wiped it down...I just don't understand what people think.



Again, there's a word for it........total unabated selfishness.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 14, 2018)

And then there are those people who sneak their little dogs into timeshare units where they are not allowed. (I have even witnessed one family that kept their dog in the car each night during their stay)

A Smuggs owner just posted last night on our Facebook page that she saw that some people snuck their dogs into the condos. She did not report it because she felt  on vacation she didn't want to have to deal with it. I assume this is the case for a lot of people at timeshares and I get it. You want to unwind and so forth.

However-Everyone thinks someone else will say something and it will be dealt with. We have to stand up when we see something going on that is against the rules at our resorts, Me- I would be taking pictures,getting license plate numbers, calling the front desk, posting on Facebook and emailing the HOA.

Believe me I have done this with other issues. In this day and age most people have cell phones in hand and it's very easy and takes no time at all.


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## Gaozhen (Jan 16, 2018)

While I agree that the system is abused, I'm kind of surprised at the level of anger / intolerance / understanding in here. I would never pretend my dogs are a service animals, but having family and friends whose children have autism and similar disabilities, there is definitely a need for real emotional service animals that DON'T have to do full-on service tasks. 

Have you had to stay home from work because your autistic child goes into a rage, gets terrified of the world, or shuts down? Or do you know anyone with PTSD has terrors and flashbacks? For many people, emotional service animals are the only way to function, and a lot of these comments seem to dismiss that. Just because someone or someone's family member suffers a disability doesn't mean they should go on vacation, or won't ever have to get on a plane. 

Yeah there are abuses, but some people really need them and a carte blanche prohibition will hurt people. Just a reminder to put yourselves in others' shoes.


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## clifffaith (Jan 16, 2018)

Our personal experience with an emotional support/companion animal took place in our own back yard. We had the tenant from hell in our guest house in 2012 and were basically prisoners in our own home for the last three months of her tenancy. Three weeks before she left, in spite of "relocation funds" to the tune of $18,650 already being in escrow waiting for her to get her ass off our property, she shows up with a pit bull, someone from some tenants' rights group and a dog handler.  We of course tell her to get that dog out of our backyard. Well it was her "companion animal". Called the police who of course put us way down on the issue of things needing handling that day, and then happened to call a friend of a friend who was a lawyer and luckily answered the phone that Sunday afternoon. She tells us go out there NOW and tell her she can have that dog. We did and dog was gone 10 minutes later never to be seen again. Just one more way that rhymes-with-witch was terrorizing us in our own home.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 16, 2018)

Gaozhen said:


> Yeah there are abuses, but some people really need them and a carte blanche prohibition will hurt people. Just a reminder to put yourselves in others' shoes.



Real PTSD service dogs are not just random pets.  They are trained animals. Any real service animal is trained, if they can't be trained to behave they flunk out as a service animal.  Many pets, were owners claim them to be service animals, are most often NOT real service animals.  Even my pet therapy dog, which was trained, certified, insured and most importantly behaved, was not even considered a service dog. 

Service animals are trained, that is the point.  It is the many so call service animals they have not one once of training and all kinds of bad behavior, and their owners don't give a damn.  That is MY issue with fake service animals.


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## Gaozhen (Jan 16, 2018)

Sandy VDH said:


> Real PTSD service dogs are not just random pets.  They are trained animals. Any real service animal is trained, if they can't be trained to behave they flunk out as a service animal.  Many pets, were owners claim them to be service animals, are most often NOT real service animals.  Even my pet therapy dog, which was trained, certified, insured and most importantly behaved, was not even considered a service dog.
> 
> Service animals are trained, that is the point.  It is the many so call service animals they have not one once of training and all kinds of bad behavior, and their owners don't give a damn.  That is MY issue with fake service animals.



The carte blanche prohibition in the original post (and many comments throughout here) stated that even trained THERAPY animals should be prohibited, and my point is that many people need such therapy animals that are NOT full service animals. Again, there are abuses yes, I've seen them and hate that they give legitimate circumstances a bad name. My point is simply that there are people that truly need them, usually they are trained but not full service, and not to group everyone together in the crappy faker club.


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## DebBrown (Jan 16, 2018)

I understand people will go to great lengths to take their pets places.  It's a tough call.  I saw this article earlier today:  http://wgntv.com/2017/10/09/blind-mans-service-dog-attacked-by-fake-service-dog/


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## heathpack (Jan 17, 2018)

DebBrown said:


> I understand people will go to great lengths to take their pets places.  It's a tough call.  I saw this article earlier today:  http://wgntv.com/2017/10/09/blind-mans-service-dog-attacked-by-fake-service-dog/



In that article, a guy had a pet pit bull on a train.  After it attacked the service dog, he claimed the pit bull was a service dog.  He did not go to “great lengths”.  He just made up a lie on the spot and was immediately called on the lie by the police.

The article then goes on to state that there’s “nothing” the police could do, as if this is the case because of the service dog claim.  Actually, the police can do nothing because it’s not a crime for one dog to bite another.

The blind man can attempt civil action against the pit bull’s owner for costs incurred in treating the real service dog’s injuries and will probably win that law suit.  But beyond that, there is not much to be done unless the law is changed.


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## Jan M. (Jan 17, 2018)

We have a great nephew with severe cerebral palsy who has a trained service dog who assists him in the simple things he is able to do and does some of the things he can't do for him. He is 16 now and this is his second dog. Both German shepherds. When the family vacations the dog stays with my husband's brother and SIL or with their other daughter and her family.

Last May I was at Disney World with my granddaughter and we were seated on the Kilimanjaro safari ride a row behind a younger couple, late 20's-early 30's, with a black lab service dog that could have and should have been left at home. The one whose dog it was could have functioned just as well with only the assistance of the spouse. Who btw was having to look after this person and the almost prostrate dog too. I chatted with them because we used to have a black lab who was an amazing dog and love the breed. The heat and humidity were awful that day and I live in Florida! That poor dog was seriously overheated and suffering even lying down on the safari ride out of the direct sun. You could see by the way it walked that its feet hurt from being burnt by the hot pavement. If you've never had the soles of your feet blister burnt by hot pavement or hot sand, consider yourself lucky and make sure you try to avoid it.  Even my granddaughter who is a real trooper at the Parks was staying her feet felt uncomfortably hot through her shoes. We wouldn't have even been at the Park until evening if we hadn't had a daytime time slot for the sneak preview of the not yet opened Pandora World at Animal Kingdom. We saw them several more times throughout the afternoon and I couldn't believe that they were still there and so callously subjecting not only a costly but a sweet and giving dog to such cruel treatment.

Just because you can legitimately have your trained service dog with you, it doesn't always mean you should and especially if you don't really need to.


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## ssreward (Jan 17, 2018)

Gaozhen said:


> The carte blanche prohibition in the original post (and many comments throughout here) stated that even trained THERAPY animals should be prohibited, and my point is that many people need such therapy animals that are NOT full service animals. Again, there are abuses yes, I've seen them and hate that they give legitimate circumstances a bad name. My point is simply that there are people that truly need them, usually they are trained but not full service, and not to group everyone together in the crappy faker club.


It’s a lot like medical marijuana. Not everybody is in agreement regarding the true “need” for therapy dogs because there’s little in the way of peer reviewed studies proving superiority over other methods such as medication. There’s plenty of other treatments for things like autism & ptsd that don’t require animals in public places. The entire goal of therapy is regaining normal function to the greatest degree possible & support animals may actually prevent that. How are you going to learn to function without the animal if you insist on bringing it everywhere? And before you flame me - I have an autistic child (and a second that probably is) myself so I certainly understand the challenges.


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## turkel (Jan 17, 2018)

I don't think a single person who posted in this thread has said a legitimate service animal should be denied entry anywhere.

The issue from the start has been fake service animal or companion animals passed off as legitimate service animal. The owners of these animals are just plan selfish and self centered. 

I have complained about this at my local Costco several times. Finally, they now have a poster sized sign at the entrance that companion animals and pets are not allowed but service dogs are welcome. This is common sense. I wish all stores would follow suit. 

Pets should be left at home. If you want to walk your pooch outside the law requires a leash. My personal pet peeve no pun intended, the world is not your dogs toilet. Be a responsible pet owner and train your dog to crap in your own backyard where you can clean it up!!!

The problem is not dogs it's dog owners.


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## taterhed (Jan 17, 2018)

Hmmm.

Let me make my words kind and open-minded.

I'm a huge fan of animals (Dogs obviously...) and firmly believe in the benefits and necessity of service dogs.
I also firmly believe in the therapeutic and enabling power of therapy dogs (and horses...maybe some other animals in some cases IMHO).
I'd like to point out:  there ARE psychiatric service dogs that are identified as such and recognized by the ADA.  These are NOT emotional support animals by definition, but service dogs.

I believe that the ADA is of great benefit and necessity to protect the rights of those who need service dogs and other accommodations to enhance their lives.
I believe that the ACAA is a well-intentioned law designed to protect and ease air transportation for travelers with Emotional Support Animals.
I believe that the less-than-honorable actions of the general public at-large mandate a change in the training, documentation, licensing and certification of service animals.
I believe that the ADA and ACAA should be revised to include clear instruction and better verification for service dogs and ESA's.
Merchants/vendors/customer service, business owners etc... should be given better guidance and opportunity to *insure that laws are being upheld---and not abused*.

To clarify, under current law, the *ADA* allows service dogs to travel and stay with their owners in public areas, shops, transportation, lodging etc.... with minimal restrictions and no documentation.
Additionally, the *ACAA* allows the specified transport of ESA dogs and their owners in the cabin; documentation required.
Further, the *FHa* allows both service dogs and ESA's to be accommodated in housing (documentation for the ESA's).

I fully support the _*use and accommodation*_ of service dogs for those who have a legitimate need and appropriately trained service dogs.
I fully support the _*transportation*_ of ESA DOGS and other small mammals via ACAA..... with legitimate need, full documentation and appropriately trained and restrained small ESA's.

I do not support the accommodation of ESA's in public lodging.  Obviously, those establishments which choose to be 'pet friendly' have that right.
I do not support the accommodation of PETS being accommodated under the guise of service animals, non-protected ESA's or "Mommy's little snuggum's."  You would not like my Rottie frightening your family and I would not like your poodle sleeping in my timeshare.  I will gladly make allowances for service animals--it's a law-given right.
I do not support the accommodation of ANY poorly trained, uncontrolled, aggressive or otherwise dangerous animal in public areas.

I hope these words do not offend or anger anyone.  I have seen children live very mainstream lives while attending school etc... only by the grace of an ESA dog  (which may have been a service dog...) and I recognize the incredible value of this.  But, I believe the sheer number of people with ESA's--real or conjured or ????--would quickly overwhelm and undermine the rights of business owners and the general public.

Again, all just my 2 cents

As another poster indicated:  There are lot's of folks with medical cannabis prescriptions.  My opinion on medical cannabis is not relevant here.  What is relevant is this:  I do NOT support the accommodation of 'medical cannabis patients' in non-smoking rooms/facilities simply because it provides valuable comfort or therapy to those patients.  Not sure if it's a good analogy, but it is one...


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## turkel (Jan 17, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> Let me make my words kind and open-minded.
> 
> ...



I like the analogy and your well said post!


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## klpca (Jan 19, 2018)

Delta is changing their policy. More documentation will now be required. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/delta-imposes-new-rules-for-service-dogs/

_Starting March 1, customers will have to show proof of health or vaccinations for their animals 48 hours in advance. In addition, owners of emotional-support animals will need to sign a statement confirming their animal can behave. However, the new requirements don't apply to pets that stay in kennels during flights._


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## theo (Jan 19, 2018)

klpca said:


> Delta is changing their policy. More documentation will now be required. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/delta-imposes-new-rules-for-service-dogs/
> 
> _owners of emotional-support animals will need to *sign a statement confirming their animal can behave*. _



*Can* behave?  --- or *will *behave? Seems to be not quite the same thing somehow.

Diapered Daniel, the emotional support *duck* I mentioned earlier in this thread, was well behaved by all accounts. Presumably, his quacking calmed his owner, alleviating the stress of airline travel (for her, if not for other passengers).

Where does the line get drawn? The link above includes a aircraft cabin photo of an uncaged snake (remember, emotional support animals need not be caged, according to the Delta info cited). This makes me wonder, could someone bring an emotional support boa constrictor on a flight, or perhaps an emotional support three toed sloth? "Diapered Duck Daniel" might enjoy some  interspecies interaction. After all, stressed out emotional support ducks might just need some emotional support themselves.


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## geist1223 (Jan 19, 2018)

Glad to see Delta Airlines is taking a firm stand.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 20, 2018)

Delta Airlines Just Announced It's Had Enough of Your Fake Emotional Support Animal
By Chris Matyszczyk/ Best-Kept Travel Secrets/ Inc./ inc.com

_"Absurdly Driven__ looks at the world of business with a skeptical eye and a firmly rooted tongue in cheek. _

Humans are difficult beasts. 

Their emotions drive them. 

Can we call selfishness an emotion? 

I only ask because one airline has finally decided to do something about all those alleged emotional support animals that people take on planes.

Animals that many would describe as mere household pets.

And other passengers would describe as nuisances. 

Delta has listened.

It's instituting new rules because, it says, there's "a lack of regulation that has led to serious safety risks involving untrained animals in flight."

Last year, indeed, a dog bit a man on a Delta flight. The man suffered serious facial injuries.

So Delta's new rules at least attempt to avoid another such situation...."





Some are genuine service animals. Some definitely aren't.
CREDIT: Getty Images


Richard


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## ecwinch (Jan 20, 2018)

All Delta is really doing is CYA for when a emotional support animal bites someone on a flight. Then they will whip out the "owner certification" and say "the owner certified the animal was trained to obey their commands".

Here is the documentation they now are requiring to travel with an emotional support animal.

https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/policy/EmotionalSupportAnimal-RequiredForms.pdf

It changes nothing in terms of people passing their pet off as a service animal. Then they are still hand-cuffed by the two questions allowable under the ADA.


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## "Roger" (Jan 22, 2018)

Another article on how what is meant to help those truly in need is being abused and Delta beginning to require more documentation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2018/01/22/fur-and-fury-at-40000-feet-as-more-people-bring-animals-on-planes/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_support-animals-145pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.bfb54a1c13ee


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## Jan M. (Jan 22, 2018)

Last September when Hurricane Irma was coming I was already in Cleveland, Ohio staying with our son and his family. When it looked like our area was in the direct path of the hurricane I booked a flight up for my husband and told him he was bringing our elderly cat who was in declining health. My husband wanted to stay home with the cat but I said absolutely not. There was no way the cat could be left behind as he required medications several times a day. Putting the cat in a kennel, if I could have even found one to take him at that point with the declining weather situation would have been cruel to the poor cat. He had lymphoma and passed shortly before Thanksgiving. RIP, Nicky. I called our Petsmart, told the clerk we needed a bag/tote for the cat and pet diapers and that my husband would be there shortly. She took care of helping him when he got there. I also called the vet and told them my husband would be in to pick up something to keep the cat calm on the flight. Too bad they couldn't give something for my husband too, lol, as he about drove me nuts clear up until the time he got in his seat. 

My husband had his hands full getting the house hurricane ready and everything brought in and secured before he left but never fussed about any of that, just flying with the cat. I told my husband once they got settled on the plane to periodically unzip the bag/tote enough for the cat to stick his head out and wet the cat's mouth with bottled water. Everything went beautifully on the flight and my husband was so proud of himself for surviving the ordeal and proud of the cat for being such a good passenger. It helped that this cat was very laid back, was completely comfortable in his bag/tote and so happy to be going along. My trip back home with the cat two weeks later went equally as well.

Our son, DIL and I were in tears picturing my husband diapering the cat for the flight. After they got there when my husband recounted his diapering efforts it set us off again. My husband was challenged trying to figure out how the diaper went on and how to fasten it but the cat was patient with him. When it was my turn to do it for the flight home it was a piece of cake after having spent several weeks diapering our very active then 16 month old granddaughter! The cat didn't have to make use of the diapers but we were prepared. We did everything we could think of not just for the safety and comfort of the cat but to also be considerate of our fellow passengers. It made me wonder why all animals, pets, emotional support and service dogs aren't required to wear a diaper for a flight. I've sat in the plane on the runway for over an hour, circled the airport, both of which made the flights much longer than anticipated, had rough flights, etc. Any of those things can present difficulties even for the best trained animal.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 23, 2018)

So, Jan M., your cat was not a service animal then. She flew with a service human! LOL!


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## taterhed (Jan 23, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> ............. We did everything we could think of not just for the safety and comfort of the cat but to also be considerate of our fellow passengers. It made me wonder why all animals, pets, emotional support and service dogs aren't required to wear a diaper for a flight. I've sat in the plane on the runway for over an hour, circled the airport, both of which made the flights much longer than anticipated, had rough flights, etc. Any of those things can present difficulties even for the best trained animal.



Sounds like you were a concerned, diligent and conscientious pet owner.  Kudos.

Too bad so many others are not.  This might also be said for 'parents' and 'kids' on airplanes, but I won't go there....


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## Jan M. (Jan 23, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Sounds like you were a concerned, diligent and conscientious pet owner.  Kudos.
> 
> Too bad so many others are not.  This might also be said for 'parents' and 'kids' on airplanes, but I won't go there....



I will for you because I fly a lot and have had my share of flights with children who were not well behaved to put it mildly.

I've been flying regularly 3-4 times a year with our now 6 year old granddaughter since she was 18 months old. Sadly she won't be able to come stay with Grandma and Papa as much now that she's in kindergarten. Our son, DIL, their 6 year old and their 19 month old flew down on New Year's Eve day to visit us for a week. This was the first time flying for the younger one, our DIL had only flown with their older one twice and not since she was two, and our son only three times and not since she four. The older granddaughter is a veteran flyer and I had no concerns about her. I've had people sitting in the rows around us say when they've exited or got up to use the restroom that she is so good they didn't even realize there was a child seated near them.

I gave our son and DIL a "Flying with Your Own Children 101" talk. Take food, water and snacks and plenty of them. Candy is fine but make sure you have decent food and snacks and that they eat those things first because no one wants to hear or watch a sugared up child on a plane. If the child is young make sure they have their blanket, stuffed animal, etc. and DO NOT lose it! It stays in a backpack, tote or purse or pinned to the child's clothes while you are checking your bags, going through security and walking through the airport. You can open the backpack or whatever to let the child see that their lovey is safe and assure them it will be in their arms as soon as you are seated on the plane. From the time our older granddaughter was about 2.5 she has had her own little roll on bag that goes under the seat and she pulls it herself. In it are a few snacks, a favorite book or two, a few toys, a tablet when she got old enough to use one, and her lovey. After her second trip with me I didn't even bother with a stroller anymore because we weren't using it to get through the airport and we have one at our house. I had to assist at times when she was younger and got the wheels of her bag hung up tying to get around those poles for the lines but that is all. Yes for the first couple of years when she was smaller I had to walk a little slower and make sure we stayed out of the way of the people walking faster but she loves pulling her own little bag and the exercise ensures she naps on the plane. Grandma gets a nap then too! When she's ready to nap I always have something, a neck pillow, small travel pillow, a rolled up jacket, that I put on my lap for her to lay her head on and she curls up the rest of her body in her seat. I use either her jacket or mine to cover her up.

One very important thing to do when traveling with children is prior to the day of travel and again before you get to the airport you talk to the child about how we behave on the plane. Absolutely no one wants to hear your child screaming and freaking out because they have to stay seated and keep their seatbelt on! You walk them through the order of things giving details about each step. As in we check our bag, go through security, explain the procedures. Our next stop is the bathroom and then we either buy our water or fill up our water bottles. Once we get to the gate we can investigate what we have for food and snacks and if we are really hungry (of course we always are) we can have a little something before we get on the plane or if there is a long wait we can eat our sandwiches. We check Grandma's phone and the child's tablet to make sure they are fully charged or sit where we can charge them if we have a long time to wait before we can board and want to use them while we are waiting. Children usually do just fine when they know what to expect and what is expected of them.

Our son was so excited to tell us how things went when they got here. As expected the younger one had her moments but there were only two of them, and only one on the plane when they were trying to get all four of them settled in their seats. But in her defense they had a very early morning flight so she was up hours before she would normally be. She doesn't do the "mama drama" for our son so he immediately took her when she started and she settled right down. She's a Daddy's girl since he works a mid evening shift and is home with her all day and there til her bedtime. He got some dirty looks and couldn't figure out why as her moment was literally just that not minutes long. It didn't take him long to figure out why however. Seated about 5-6 rows ahead of them on the plane was a family with two little boys. The family was well dressed and appeared to be at least upper middle class from what our son observed. They had nothing but a big bag of Skittles for the boys and whenever they tried to say the boys had enough candy a screaming fit ensued. They had nothing for the boys to do. The boys ran up and down the aisle when the seat belt sign was off. It finally got to the point that the flight attendant spoke to the parents. Fun times for the other passengers. Our son said the other passengers were smiling at him and his family, saying nice things about his kids by that time. What our son thought was amusing was that he, his wife and daughters were dressed for comfort and having rolled out of bed at 4am; so translated they looked like bums in comparison to the other family. Appearances can be deceiving!


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## Helaine (Jan 27, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I gave our son and DIL a "Flying with Your Own Children 101" talk.



Jan, this is amazingly detailed and helpful! I've passed it on to my niece and nephew for them and their children.
Thanks!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 27, 2018)

A tip that worked for us, when we were traveling with nursing infants, for flights lasting a couple of hours or more.  We would make the sure the child was a bit sleep-deprived and a bit hungry as we got on the plane.  As soon as we got settled and the plane started taxiing, DW would start nursing.  Suckling is also a good aid to deal with the effects of pressure changes in the ears. After suckling for a bit, the child would fall asleep.  When the child woke up, we would make a decision as to whether or not to put the child back on the breast.  If we were getting close to landing, we would hold off if we could (depending on fussiness), and start nursing again when we were about halfway descended.  If it was a longer flight, we would put the child back on the breast at the first sign of fussiness, but try to hold something "in reserve" in order to have the child nursing if necessary during descent.


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## Panina (Jan 27, 2018)

I was on an Amtrak train sleeper car and on comes a young lady with her dog.  Definitely not a service dog, pulling, nervous and she had to calm it down.


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## Jan M. (Jan 30, 2018)

*Woman denied emotional support peacock on United flight*
By Janine Puhak

Published January 30, 2018

FoxNews.com
Birds of a feather may flock together, but United Airlines recently shot down one traveler’s request to bring her emotional support peacock on a flight departing Newark Liberty International Airport.

Live and Let Fly reported earlier this week that even though the unidentified woman claimed that she had a second ticket for the peacock, the airline denied her request.





United's decision to deny the peacock comes on the heels of Delta's controversial crackdown of support animals.  (Thejetset.tv)

A spokesperson for United further tells Fox News that the traveler(s) with the peacock were told they would not be able to bring it on board.


"This animal did not meet guidelines for a number of reasons, including its weight and size. We explained this to the customers on three separate occasions before they arrived at the airport," said United in a statement.

Photos of the unusual scene were shared to Facebook by travel talk show The Jet Set, sparking online commenters to both condemn and champion United’s decision.

“Unbelievable, this has to stop now!!” one user wrote.

“I'll take the majestic peacock over the 5+ dogs that have attacked my coworkers just this past holiday season,” another supposed airline staffer fired back.

The news comes on heels of Delta’s controversial crackdown of emotional support and service animals. On Jan. 19, the airline announced forthcoming restrictions in hopes of curbing an abuse of policy and an 84 percent increase in ill animal behavior such as urinating, defecating, biting and attacks on flights.


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## linpat (Jan 30, 2018)

I cannot imagine being in a closed space like an airplane and have that peacock scream.


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## TUGBrian (Jan 30, 2018)

the peacock story actually made me laugh.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 31, 2018)

My sense is that if one were to create a Wikipedia entry for "Entitled", one could easily fill the page with real life examples of the abusive use of the emotional support animals concept.  (Or Costco returned items, but that's a totally different thread.)

The unfortunate situation is that when the notion becomes so blatantly abused, then the disparagement coming from the abuse captures those with a legitimate need. 

Personally, I think the policies being instituted by by at least Delta and United, requiring documentation of need and 48 hours advance notice, are entirely reasonable.  It seems to me that if someone's need is legitimate, it ought to be easy to comply. And if compliance creates a problem, then perhaps that calls into question the legitimacy of the claim. 

*******

And looking at the vidio, one could easily surmise that the peacock was much more accoutrement than aid.


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## RX8 (Jan 31, 2018)

I was in an outlet store and a lady brought in a large dog. She said it was a service animal as it proceeded to jump on people and knock a child down. 

I see a lot of similarities as the 18 year old with a medical marijuana card due to their ingrown toenail.


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## RX8 (Jan 31, 2018)

Nevermind


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## silentg (Jan 31, 2018)

Traveling is stressful for me, I am anxious going thru security. I know it’s for our safety, but I don’t feel comfortable until  I’m on the plane and it’s in the air. I had a panic attack, coming off a plane last year. I was able to leave the airport with my aunt and brother, after being checked out with a doctor and EMTs.
Saw my Primary doctor and Cardiologist  when I got home and all tests were normal. I love to travel, but get a bit overwhelmed at times.
This is why I never judge folks with dogs or upset children, traveling by plane is a unique experience for everyone.  Including me. And I don’t have a service or emotional dog, maybe I should get one?
Silentg


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## clifffaith (Jan 31, 2018)

I have to think the peacock was a publicity stunt -- no one could be that clueless!

My peacock story goes like this: We live in an area of coastal Southern California where there was a flock of peacocks on an estate in the early part of the 20th century. Now wild peacocks are all over the peninsula. Arrived at a customer's home, briefcase in hand (we sell draperies and blinds) and peahens were all around and the peacock was on the front steps with his tail blocking my path to the door. I got closer and closer until I was right next to him and he didn't move. OK, I'll step over you like I step over our sleeping dogs. But as soon as I lifted my foot to step over his tail he freaked out, then I freaked out, so both of us are flapping about the porch trying to get out of each other's way while his harem scattered around us. Luckily this was in the pre-Internet era or my dance with a peacock would have gone viral I'm sure!


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## WinniWoman (Feb 9, 2018)

How about this story? Come on! An emotional support hamster?

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...er-to-flush-her-hamster-pebbles-down-a-toilet


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 9, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> How about this story? Come on! An emotional support hamster?
> 
> https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...er-to-flush-her-hamster-pebbles-down-a-toilet


And yet it apparently took her only minutes to decide to flush down the toilet that little creature that was so essential for her emotional well-being. 

Right.....  If we take the story at face values, as presented, I would say that her emotional issues are much bigger than the need for an emotional support animal.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 9, 2018)

Okay, so my son-in-law's brother-in-law (confusing enough?) has hamsters that he dresses in clothes and takes pictures.  They are some kind of expensive little hamsters with more hair. They are pretty cute.  And as strange as that guy is, he would probably take them on a plane as service animals.  He is pretty attached to them, and he does have behaviors that are strange.  I cannot say anymore, but needless to say, he is very different from anyone I have ever met.  Nice guy, of course.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 9, 2018)

I spent time this last week at a TS where another guest had his emotional support ankle biter size DOG. He was drinking and talking to me *at the pool bar*. Seems his DOG emtional support dog was lousely tied to a pool chair 15+ feet away til he woke up from its nap and wandered under my chair to seek attention from its owner/patient .. dragging the lease on the ground .. it was NOT tied securely. Okay, I deal with FRUITLOOPS in my work ... and I rather be alone than attracted a stalker on a vacation stay. If that REALLY is an emotional support dog, the owner must have issues. If it is a FAKE SERVICE PET dog, the owner has issues. He got his pet bag ...  pull out his 'service dog vest' and went to find his pet's folding bowl. I HOPED for anyone else to sit at the TIki bar or I was leaving.

And every time I encountered him and his 'support critter' ... it reinforced that he MIGHT needed a support dog might be correct. But THAT dog did NOT have ANY training to NEAR the LEVEL for service dog. 

My pet doberman was better trained (she sat between me and ANYONE else in a room, slept on the floor between me & the door, allowed NO ONE to stick their face near mine in the car window (got rid of flirting cops VERY fast) and NEVER tried to eat off any table. My dog convinced one police officier who pulled over for spending to ask me as I sat in my car, "Is that your dog?". My response was "do I look dumb enough to have someone else's doberman in the rear seat in my car?" He told me to "GO" and wave me away ... I was speeding. I got no ticket. Cop was TRULY taken back ... he woke my puppy-dog up from her nap.

PS If you need an emotional support critter, might you not also need MEDICINE which usually does NOT MIX well with alcohol? And if no interference, would ALCOHOL be a good idea for just controlling your issues in life?


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## WinniWoman (Feb 10, 2018)

I confess! When he was little, our son took his goldfish with him once when we went to our Smuggs timeshare!


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## geist1223 (Feb 10, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> I spent time this last week at a TS where another guest had his emotional support ankle biter size DOG. He was drinking and talking to me *at the pool bar*. Seems his DOG emtional support dog was lousely tied to a pool chair 15+ feet away til he woke up from its nap and wandered under my chair to seek attention from its owner/patient .. dragging the lease on the ground .. it was NOT tied securely. Okay, I deal with FRUITLOOPS in my work ... and I rather be alone than attracted a stalker on a vacation stay. If that REALLY is an emotional support dog, the owner must have issues. If it is a FAKE SERVICE PET dog, the owner has issues. He got his pet bag ...  pull out his 'service dog vest' and went to find his pet's folding bowl. I HOPED for anyone else to sit at the TIki bar or I was leaving.
> 
> And every time I encountered him and his 'support critter' ... it reinforced that he MIGHT needed a support dog might be correct. But THAT dog did NOT have ANY training to NEAR the LEVEL for service dog.
> 
> ...



This brought back good memories about the female Red Doberman I had years ago. If we were out in the yard and someone came walking down the Street towards us She would stop what ever She was doing and track the person. Once I acknowledged the person as a friend or once the person was safely past my yard She would ignore them and go back to what She had been doing. She never growled and never snapped at a person but I had no doubts had she would react if someone tried to harm me or my wife.


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## beejaybeeohio (Feb 11, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> How about this story? Come on! An emotional support hamster?
> 
> https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...er-to-flush-her-hamster-pebbles-down-a-toilet





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> And yet it apparently took her only minutes to decide to flush down the toilet that little creature that was so essential for her emotional well-being.
> 
> Right.....  If we take the story at face values, as presented, I would say that her emotional issues are much bigger than the need for an emotional support animal.



I must confess that I nearly lost my coffee, I was laughing so hard when I read this story in our morning paper.  Not very empathetic of me, I know.  But in my defense, I did say a little prayer that somehow Pebbles was able to swim to safety and emerge in the toilet of someone who wouldn't mistake him for a rat but would recognize him as a hamster and give him a new, loving habitat.


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## Panina (Feb 11, 2018)

beejaybeeohio said:


> I must confess that I nearly lost my coffee, I was laughing so hard when I read this story in our morning paper.  Not very empathetic of me, I know.  But in my defense, I did say a little prayer that somehow Pebbles was able to swim to safety and emerge in the toilet of someone who wouldn't mistake him for a rat but would recognize him as a hamster and give him a new, loving habitat.


Anyone who would flush their loved animal down the toilet versus releasing it to the freedom of the world should not be traveling by themselves.


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## hvsteve1 (Feb 12, 2018)

I have a reverse emotional support story. I crossed the Atlantic on the Queen Mary 2 last summer. The QM2 is a very traditional ocean liner so has a kennel for those traveling with their pets. During dinner one night the captain got on the PA system. Everybody stopped what they were doing and came to attention as one of the only reasons the captain would interrupt dinner would be to tell us to abandon ship. What he really wanted to do was ask if there was a veterinarian on the ship as a dog in the kennel was in distress. We didn't hear more though people were asking after the dog all evening. Finally we got an update. The dog was freaking out from being separated from its owner. So, Cunard allowed the pooch to move in with the owner. Kind of an emotional support cruiser.


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## Tia (Feb 14, 2018)

hvsteve1 said:


> ...... Cunard allowed the pooch to move in with the owner. Kind of an emotional support cruiser.



Seems the people were the dogs support persons, kinda reverse of support animal


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## taterhed (Feb 23, 2018)

http://time.com/5172085/dog-bites-child-southwest-flight/

I'm not a litigious person.....  but I sincerely hope the parents of the child seek counsel and pursue both the airline and the owner of the dog for damages. 
This situation is out of control. IMHO I'm not sure what it will take to bring some order to the chaos that exists, but we need something.

I'm a pet lover as well the owner of two large and powerful dogs with less than perfect social manners.  Not to mention my JR terrorist. (the worst of the 3) My empathy level is as high as it could possibly go.

I do not blame the dog.....I blame the owner.  I'll just assume this was not a 'service dog' but was of another category (which could include certain working dogs--dogs that are not necessarily people friendly).
In any case, it's time for a change and some sanity. No insult to pet lovers and those with companion/service animals.  Just a wish for honesty and accountability.


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## Panina (Feb 24, 2018)

taterhed said:


> http://time.com/5172085/dog-bites-child-southwest-flight/
> 
> I'm not a litigious person.....  but I sincerely hope the parents of the child seek counsel and pursue both the airline and the owner of the dog for damages.
> This situation is out of control. IMHO I'm not sure what it will take to bring some order to the chaos that exists, but we need something.
> ...


I love   animals, they love me.  I also get very high anxiety when I fly.  I could get a letter that I need an  emotional support animal but I never would. 

I feel People that need a “trained”  service animal truly need it and I would not diminish that because of  my anxiety and panic attacks.  I have learned other ways to cope and different methods of travel.

  I feel the need of one should not put many in dangers and  if emotional support animals are allowed they should be “trained”.  Licensing should be required for all animals that are service animals or support animals. 

You cannot drive a car unless you have a license to prove you can drive safely.  A emotional support animal should be trained and licensed to prove they can service the owner without putting others safety in danger.


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## ottawasquaw (Mar 11, 2018)

oh dear! I just spent the last two days with friends and their friends with their "service" dogs. oy vey! I was taken aback when on a Facebook post, one guest asked if it would be ok if they brought their dog to the impromptu pitch-in dinner. Huh?
I didn't realize that they had traveled from out of town and their only other option would be to leave the dog in the hotel. The small dog was cute and seemed fine, but today I heard he nipped or attempted to bite a male guest and snagged his new trousers. OK, no service dog would behave this way.
Then, today, I saw the dog bite the male guest of honor at the reception. Utterly ridiculous that these people are trying to pull this stunt. Supposedly it is her service dog because she has trouble hearing. I didn't notice any hearing problem.
And, she was not the only guest with her dog. Another couple had their dog in a basket of the walker of the women. This dog minded his manners, but it does beg the question, you can't leave home without your dog? Apparently not. I guess if Paris Hilton travels with her dog, then Senior Citizens should also be entitled to this privilege.
I have a family member who is legally blind and has had a service dog for years. I've had friends who train them. I know how a service dog acts and how valuable they can be. I guess I'm not ready for the European attitude of brining your dog with you wherever you go.


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## dewdrops (Mar 24, 2018)

Anyone notice the baby-looking like strollers for pets now?  I saw two today with dogs in them and at first I thought it was baby inside and a converted baby stroller.  One was actually a made for Dog stroller.  Must say, very very cute indeed.

But its out of control really with the "ESA pets" everywhere -- see them in restaurants (ie at Chipotle, as takeout but still rather not so pleasant as someone eating in), at Costco and stores everywhere!  My kids think pets, especially dogs are so cute and wonderful and whats the problem.  I guess, sigh, just need to get used to the new wave.

I saw one at a college, I really don't think the dog was "trained" as a Service Animal, because clearly it was pulling its owner this and that and owner was in hallway with dog.  So guess dog got bored in the class.


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## Jan M. (Mar 27, 2018)

dewdrops said:


> Anyone notice the baby-looking like strollers for pets now?



When our older granddaughter who is now six was a baby I bought a pet stroller thinking it was a baby stroller at our annual development garage sale. Yes, I have my what was I thinking moments like everyone else. To make it even more of a total space cadet moment the neighbors I bought it from are in their late 40's and never had children so why would I even think they would have a baby stroller? Our neighbor's mother has trained companion dogs she takes to nursing homes and had gotten a newer, fancier stroller. I liked the idea that it zipped closed and paid no attention to the fact that there were no holes for a child's legs or that the pattern on the material was small dog bones until I got it home and looked at it for a while. 

At that time our dog Missy was 16 and still going strong but over the next year age started catching up to her. Having that stroller for her was wonderful. She loved our evening walks to watch the sunset over a nearby lake and rather than have to leave her home we could alternate letting her walk for a while and riding in the stroller. When Missy passed two years later I gave the stroller to another neighbor in the plan for her dog who was starting to age. Our Missy was an abandoned dog we got when she was about a year to a year and a half old and her dog was a about 8 or 9 when she adopted her from a rescue group. She wanted to pay me but I refused and told her when she was done with it to pass it on to someone else. For the next couple of years every time that neighbor would see me outside when they were walking she always stopped to thank me profusely.


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 27, 2018)

dewdrops said:


> But its out of control really with the "ESA pets" everywhere -- see them in restaurants (ie at Chipotle, as takeout but still rather not so pleasant as someone eating in), at Costco and stores everywhere!  My kids think pets, especially dogs are so cute and wonderful and whats the problem.  I guess, sigh, just need to get used to the new wave.



Not me! I will walk out if I see such a thing, after informing them of why I will not eat there of course (restaurant).


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## chapjim (Mar 27, 2018)

Last week, we were at Festival, the big flea market in Pompano Beach.  A woman was walking around with a little fluffy white dog.  The dog had a vest that had "service dog" written with what clearly was a magic marker or Sharpie.  She went back and forth several times while my wife was in the produce market.  The woman turned around and started walking away and the dog went up to one of the booths, lifted its leg and peed on the booth!  Some service dog!


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 5, 2018)

So You Want a Letter Saying You Need a Support Dog For Your Flight?  Here's Why a Therapist Might Balk
By Hugo Martin/ Business/ Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"A regal peacock was barred from accompanying its owner on a United Airlines flight departing from Newark, N.J., in January, but not, well, for being a regal peacock. It was simply too large.

Another flightless fowl, a turkey, got the go-ahead two years ago to fly with its owner on Delta Air Lines.

And then there was the mallard, wearing velcro red shoes, that became an internet celebrity when the duck was photographed in 2016 flying with its caretaker in North Carolina.

The animals that flew didn’t cost their owners a dime and didn’t spend their time locked up in a cage. Instead, the critters were deemed necessary by a medical professional to provide emotional support, which meant they could cuddle up in the laps of their presumably anxious owners — just inches from other fliers.

“This thing has gotten out of hand,” said Jeff Younggren, a psychologist and clinical professor at the University of New Mexico, who has conducted several studies on the subject of emotional support animals....."





The number of passengers flying with emotional support animals on the nation’s airlines has surged over the last year. United Airlines, one of the biggest carriers, has seen a 75% increase. (Michael Glenwood / For The Times)


Richard


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## geist1223 (Jun 5, 2018)

The airlines should stop allowing "emotional support" animals. Stick with Assistance animals as defined by Federal Law.


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## taterhed (Jun 5, 2018)

Actually, federal law is the reason the airlines are carrying emotional support animals

 https://www.transportation.gov/ind...e-animals-including-emotional-support-animals

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## VictorMackay (Jul 16, 2022)

Any form of aggression automatically disqualifies a dog from being a service dog.


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## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

taterhed said:


> Actually, federal law is the reason the airlines are carrying emotional support animals
> 
> https://www.transportation.gov/indi...e-animals-including-emotional-support-animals
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


This makes it confusing.


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## pedro47 (Jul 16, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> This makes it confusing.


There are going to be many pros an cons posts on this proposal. IMHO


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## Passepartout (Jul 16, 2022)

I'm NOT going to go back and read all this thread. At MY house, I'M the dog's 'service animal'. Let the dog out. Let the dog in. Clean up her poop. Fix 2 good meals and snacks all day. Full exercise program- with personal trainer- ME.


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## VictorMackay (Jul 20, 2022)

Haha, the truth is that mostly it's like this, we are serving dogs rather than they serve us.


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## VictorMackay (Jul 25, 2022)

Any form of aggression automatically disqualifies a dog from being a service dog.


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