# Rental Cars in Nevada



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 1, 2018)

Recently we rented a car from Alamo in Vegas.  The salesman at the counter gave me a really hard sell that any damages would be billed directly to the credit card and not handled by insurance because "this is Nevada.' When I said that we have primary coverage through our credit card, he said, "we don't take insurance anymore."

I ignored him and declined their extortion price of  $26/day insurance, but he had me wondering if I had gotten in an accident, would we be covered by the primary insurance on our chase reserve credit card (which would be the same card they would bill.)

Any thoughts on this? or is this just the latest sales gimmick to convince us to buy insurance we don't need?


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## Luanne (Apr 1, 2018)

I responded to this on your other post.  You really need to check the benefits with your credit card company.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks.  I moved it to this thread because the other one was Hawaii and I did not want to go off-topic.


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## VacationForever (Apr 2, 2018)

We rented cars 2 to 3 times in Nevada and each time the rental car counter person said Nevada was one of the few states where if there was a collision or damage to the car (at fault), the rental car company could claim for loss of use while the car was under repair.  The counter person said that while our personal auto insurance would pay for repair, it would not pay for "loss of use".  We paid for the rental car insurance because of that.  I did look it up back then and there was indeed something to that effect.


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## taterhed (Apr 2, 2018)

This is not an easy issue, but...

The charges for 'loss of use' 'diminished value' and 'administrative fees' are not unique to Nevada.  In fact, unless specifically limited by state law, they are pretty much universal.

I'm not even going to attempt to delve into all 50 states for reference, but Nevada is not special in being able to charge these fees.  In fact, California and Nevada both have state assigned LIMITS to the amount of fees that can be charged for certain types of damage.

I've included some links below to anecdotal articles about car rental accidents.  Good information, but just that, nothing more.

If you rent a car....you CAN and probably WILL be held responsible for damages, loss of use, loss of value and administrative fees....if the car you rent is in an accident, damaged or vandalized.  Period.  State law, contracts and litigation or threat thereof will probably determine who pays and how much.

Here is something to think about:

Nevada will check your DL (by law) and make sure you sign the contract.  Period.
Nevada has 15/30/10 laws:  Nevada drivers are required to have protection levels of at least $15,000 per person for bodily injury, $30,000 per accident for bodily injury, and $10,000 per accident for property damage.
If you do not personally have an automobile insurance policy that covers 15/30/10, then Nevada rent a car (RAC) companies MUST cover the 15/30/10 damages for the car they own by law (depends on ownership, location of accident etc..)  So, it is in the interest of RAC companies to insure that you have adequate coverage.
Personal auto policies (yours--or the person driving the car) are usually primary for accidents and damages to a rental car if supplementary coverage does not exist.  You risk having an 'accident' on your insurance record, higher premiums etc... if you file (or the RAC files) against your policy.
Credit card coverage for rental cars may or may not be primary in the event of an accident. Check your coverage.
Many 'acts' specified in the RAC contract may void your supplemental coverage purchased from the RAC (breaking the law such as DUI or reckless, unauthorized renters, driving on unpaved roads etc..)  Reckless driving may not only be 'easy' to get in some states, but might be quite common when writing citations and accident reports.  Potentially, a very costly factor.
Many credit cards (or other private supplementary insurance providers) may have significant limits/restrictions for the 'free' or paid coverage you have when renting a car:  Value limit of $50,000 for the car, 30 or 15 day rental term max, driving off-road, driving intoxicated, charged with a crime while operating (reckless) etc..., you must decline ALL offered supplementary policies at the time of rental and pay for the rental--fully--on the specific credit card
Many states and many contracts allow and specify that you are responsible for many fees other than damage--including acts of god--plus administrative, loss of use, loss of value AND LEGAL FEES.  Legal fees alone can easily total more than the actual damages.
So, here is the deal:

If you don't have automobile insurance (or any driver doesn't) you need some type of coverage
You must have at or above the state minimums for coverage on your primary/secondary coverage (where rented and operated) or you are at risk
If billed for an accident, damages, vandalism or loss of use, you should vigorously review and challenge any fees that are not supported by documentation in conjunction with your insurer(s). 
You should be fully aware of your primary and secondary policies (auto, credit card or supplemental) and any stipulations or limits before blindly using them as your only coverage
You should be fully aware of the costs, limits and exclusions of any RAC supplemental policies before purchasing them.

It's all about cost vs risk.   Don't wait until you're standing in Las Vegas in the airport RAC line to think about the issues above....


https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/car-rental-insurance-coverage-1273.php
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/is-...ntal-car-companies-when-vehicles-are-damaged/
https://www.denverpost.com/2008/03/19/rental-car-advice-read-before-you-rent-a-car/


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## dougp26364 (Apr 2, 2018)

In 20 some odd years of renting cars 4 to 6 weeks/year, we’ve had multiple rock chips to windshields that we’ve never heard a word about.
We’ve also been involved in one accident in Florida and one animal collision in Kansas. Both times we filled out the rental company paperwork and then the paperwork for the credit card company, who was considered primary in our case. In both instances the bill for damages was paid and that was that. However it is important to point out that we were not at fault in Florida. The young woman was texting and rear ended us.
I never allow the counter weasels to scare me. I always figure they’ll need to prove a financial loss and, unless they’re sold out of cars, that might be difficult to prove loss of use. At any rate $26/day times 28 days per year times 20 years is a significant savings ($14,560 to be exact). Even if I did have to pay for an extra week for loss of use I’m still way ahead of the game. 

Now, having said all of that, when we’re in a foreign country I buy every bit of coverage or waivers they offer. To me the piece of mind is worth it. In Ireland I flattened 2 tires on road hazards. The bill at the tire store was 500 euros each. In Scotland I was a little hard on the hub caps plus the front number was held on with wire ties. I only noticed it when I knocked it loose one morning and discovered the wires that where holding it in place. Neither time did we have to fill out any forms or make my claims. So there is something for piece of mind if you only need the coverage or waivers on rare occasion


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks for your responses. We have Chase Sapphire Reserve which offers primary coverage - we always use this to save money on rentals ($14,000 is a lot of money!)  The difference here is that the sales counter guy said that insurance (whether it was my own or the credit cards) would not apply if there was an accident and I was signing a document to acknowledge this.

Is this like a timeshare salesman skirting the truth to get the sale?
Or is this a new twist by the auto rental companies to cite a specific Nevada law to extract more money?

At a minimum, I figured that if it were billed to the same credit card (Chase Sapphire Reserve) that offers the insurance protection, then the credit card company would be empowered to back out the charge and apply insurance if needed.


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## taterhed (Apr 2, 2018)

He was lying.

Read the top three bullets in my post.

They can ONLY ask for your DL and signature.
If you wreck the car, you owe money.
How that money gets paid to the RAC is not their business...it's yours.

Pay for the insurance waivers...that's possibly how they'll get paid (if you don't violate the terms of the contract)
Don't pay for the waivers....your insurance and/or credit card insurance may pay--assuming you don't violate the terms of your contract/agreement.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks for clarifying @taterhed. I was a bit worried during vacation that perhaps we weren't covered. It is disgusting that sales counter personnel can put a cloud over a vacation by using fear to extract more money.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 2, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for your responses. We have Chase Sapphire Reserve which offers primary coverage - we always use this to save money on rentals ($14,000 is a lot of money!)  The difference here is that the sales counter guy said that insurance (whether it was my own or the credit cards) would not apply if there was an accident and I was signing a document to acknowledge this.
> 
> Is this like a timeshare salesman skirting the truth to get the sale?
> Or is this a new twist by the auto rental companies to cite a specific Nevada law to extract more money?
> ...


 
Call the benefits dept of your credit card and call your insurance company. Having you sign a form amounts to a form of coercion IMHO.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 2, 2018)

@dougp26364 I agree. None of this information was disclosed in advance. Asking someone at the counter to make a snap decision on this matter or lose the car reserved for the week given that reserving another car at the last minute would be much more expensive is coercive.


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## tompalm (Apr 3, 2018)

I used to have USAA Insurance and they have an agreement with Avis, Budget, and another company to pay for all damages when you rent with one of those companies. Plus they give you a nice discount on the listed price. Costco was the only company that would come close to their price. I needed to change insurance companies because USAA would not insure my house because of living to close to the ocean and hurricane problems. So I am now with State Farm’s and they have the same deal with Enterprise. I back that up by using my American Express card when I rent. I have never had a hard sale on insurance from one of the companies listed above. Alamo and some of the other cheaper rental companies are famous for pushing Insurance.  I quit using them and don’t mind paying a few dollars more to deal with a better company.


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## ottawasquaw (Apr 4, 2018)

tompalm said:


> I used to have USAA Insurance and they have an agreement with Avis, Budget, and another company to pay for all damages when you rent with one of those companies. Plus they give you a nice discount on the listed price. Costco was the only company that would come close to their price. I needed to change insurance companies because USAA would not insure my house because of living to close to the ocean and hurricane problems. So I am now with State Farm’s and they have the same deal with Enterprise. I back that up by using my American Express card when I rent. I have never had a hard sale on insurance from one of the companies listed above. Alamo and some of the other cheaper rental companies are famous for pushing Insurance.  I quit using them and don’t mind paying a few dollars more to deal with a better company.


ok, so the common factor might be Alamo. I rented vehicles in Indiana last July and this past Jan. At least one of them was Alamo; both thru Costco. 

One of those times, I got the same warning at the OP. Something Indiana recently passing a State Law...yadda yada..eh, *eye roll* I was skeptical and not deterred. Signed the waiver and enjoyed my visit. Honestly, does this sound made up or what? Special legislation which protects RAC? Super doubtful. It doesn't even make sense.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 4, 2018)

Alamo has an online pre-register page where you fill out all your information and then completely skip the counter and go straight to your car. It’s avaialbe regardless of what site you’ve used to book your car. We’ve used it a few times recently, including just a few weeks ago in Orange County, CA. It takes the hassle out of picking up your car.


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## taterhed (Apr 4, 2018)

ottawasquaw said:


> ok, so the common factor might be Alamo. I rented vehicles in Indiana last July and this past Jan. At least one of them was Alamo; both thru Costco.
> 
> One of those times, I got the same warning at the OP. Something Indiana recently passing a State Law...yadda yada..eh, *eye roll* I was skeptical and not deterred. Signed the waiver and enjoyed my visit. Honestly, does this sound made up or what? Special legislation which protects RAC? Super doubtful. It doesn't even make sense.



Indiana has 20/50/10 insurance rules....higher than some states.  Indiana also requires that all cars (including rentals) have full insurance coverage. So, the RAC must supply insurance coverage for it's fleet.

If you do not have a valid, active auto insurance policy that covers rental cars and  meets the Indiana legal requirements and covers the value of the rental car.....then you must have alternate insurance; credit card, supplemental rental policy or purchase coverage from the RAC.

So, no different, but there is motivation for the RAC to insure that you have adequate coverage for the rental.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 4, 2018)

I view Alamo as at a mid-provider; and we like them better than the rent-a-wrecks because their cars are not so banged up, and they offer free spousal driver, similar to the big brands. 

Perhaps this interaction with them stood out because this is the first time I have gone to an Alamo counter in a long time. We typically used the kiosks and go straight to th ecare.  Will do that in the future and ignore the high pressure TS-like salesman at the counter.

Thanks all for your info. I feel better now.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 4, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Indiana has 20/50/10 insurance rules....higher than some states.  Indiana also requires that all cars (including rentals) have full insurance coverage. So, the RAC must supply insurance coverage for it's fleet.
> 
> If you do not have a valid, active auto insurance policy that covers rental cars and  meets the Indiana legal requirements and covers the value of the rental car.....then you must have alternate insurance; credit card, supplemental rental policy or purchase coverage from the RAC.
> 
> So, no different, but there is motivation for the RAC to insure that you have adequate coverage for the rental.



With all the cars we’ve ever rented, I believe it’s only be once that I was required to show proof of insurance.


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## taterhed (Apr 4, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> With all the cars we’ve ever rented, I believe it’s only be once that I was required to show proof of insurance.



Exactly.

It's been widely circulated on several web forums that RAC's are increasingly challenging certain rental clients based on age/appearance/citizenship etc... in an attempt to up-sell or demand proof of insurance. 

I do, in fact, carry a copy of my credit-card 'auto rental insurance coverage policy' as suggested by the credit card.  It details the type of coverage (primary), contact numbers and general policy considerations, such as value of covered loss (auto price not to exceed $50,000), duration (max rental 15 days I think on one contract) and other pertinent coverages and exclusions.

It's good to read and serves as 'proof of coverage.'   I've only been asked to see it once and the agent promptly dropped the issue without even looking at the document.

I think it's  more 'sales' than service.  That's why I use Hertz gold with no counter interaction required!


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## Luanne (Apr 4, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> With all the cars we’ve ever rented, I believe it’s only be once that I was required to show proof of insurance.


I had some friends run into this when visiting San Francisco. They were renting from some "other than major" rental company.  For some reason they did not have any proof of insurance with them.  They were able to get ahold of their agent and he faxed a copy of their insurance.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 4, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Exactly.
> 
> It's been widely circulated on several web forums that RAC's are increasingly challenging certain rental clients based on age/appearance/citizenship etc... in an attempt to up-sell or demand proof of insurance.
> 
> ...



This is good advice. I would hate to be hung up at the counter trying to contact the credit card insurance company. Where does one find this policy for Chase Sapphire Reserve? Is this custom or just a general notice?


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## taterhed (Apr 6, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This is good advice. I would hate to be hung up at the counter trying to contact the credit card insurance company. Where does one find this policy for Chase Sapphire Reserve? Is this custom or just a general notice?



ASK and you shall receive.....

https://www.chasebenefits.com/sapphirereserve


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Thank you @taterhed.  I am going to load this onto my phone so I will always have it with me.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 7, 2018)

In New York the law is that ANY correspondence has to go to the insurance company and NOT the insured- period- no matter what it is- and that is when the rental car company drops the charge. Yeah- they will hassle you for the money but you should not pay it.

The admin fee is considered part of doing business and the insurance company will not pay it nor should the insured. And- as far as diminished value-in order for the rental card company to get that money from the insurance company they have to prove that they had no other car available for a rental during that whole period of time of the repair, which they can't do, so then, again. it is dropped.

If the insurance company denies diminished value, the credit card will also deny it. If for some reason the insurance company does pay something towards diminished value, then the credit car MIGHT pay something also- but that you have to look into whether or not diminished value is even covered under the credit card policy.


This is how it is handled in NY. So - if you are from NY visiting Nevada- it is YOUR policy that applies. My husband works in the auto insurance industry and works with this on a daily basis.

Going to a foreign country- we would definitely take out the rental car insurance, however.

PS- Always take a copy of your credit card insurance and travelers insurance AND even your automobile insurance ID card with you when you travel and are renting a car.


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## taterhed (Apr 7, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> The admin fee is considered part of doing business and the insurance company will not pay it nor should the insured.
> 
> And- as far as diminished value-in order for the rental car company to get that money from the insurance company they have to prove that they had no other car available for a rental during that whole period of time of the repair, which they can't do, so then, again. it is dropped. If the insurance company denies diminished value, the credit card will also deny it. If for some reason the insurance company does pay something towards diminished value, then the credit car MIGHT pay something also- but that you have to look into whether or not diminished value is even covered under the credit card policy.
> 
> ...



A good post, thank you.

I am not an insurance professional.  I certainly would not attempt to correct a professional either.  A few comments though:

Administrative fees charged during the course of accidental damage billing, are both addressed and sometimes covered by  insurance policies--personal auto, credit card or other supplemental.  As you say, I'm sure most insurance companies deny or reduce these charges, but I'm sure the RAC will attempt to bill the renter. 

In your discussion of _'diminished value_,' I sense that you were referring to *'loss of use'* charges. 
Loss of use charges are indeed a hotly contested charge on any damaged rental property.  I should point out that both Colorado and Texas have precedent on loss-of-use charges and courts have upheld the right to such charges (Koenig v. PurCo the most famous).  These charges can be made with limited documentation vs 'actual loss' documentation.  Many credit card policies specifically address loss of use.  Yes, I'm quite sure that most insurance companies will only consider loss-of-use charges with a adequate documentation, to include a utilization log and evidence that the vehicle was returned to service in a timely manner--if not impounded/stored for evidentiary reasons. Again, as  you say, I'm sure these charges are frequently dismissed or reduced based on negotiation or lack of evidence.

To address 'diminished value,' (DV) there is broad evidence that many RAC's are pursuing DV charges against renters.  Since most personal insurance and credit card policies will not pay DV charges to RAC's, the renter should expect attempts to extort such charges.  Anecdotal evidence shows these are often inflated and lack any evidence of calculation.  But, you could expect to see bills for such.  Again, as you say, I'm sure that most of these charges are denied and only a fraction are actually paid by the renter.  Of course, I'm sure quite a few people loose sleep and/or attorney fees in these cases.

While state law may affect the processing of claims against your auto insurance policy, other state laws may take precedence in determining liability and ability to recover damages etc...depending on where the car is owned, rented, operated, damaged etc...  I'm sure it's very complex.

Why did I go to the trouble to write all this? 
To prove that it's very litigious, complicated, inflated, worrisome and potentially costly.
I strongly agree with mpumilia, carry copies of your insurance/coverage that you are using when renting cars, know your policy rights and limitations and do not set yourself up by intentionally/willfully violating the rental contract or terms of your insurance.  I would also never rent a car internationally without full coverage and knowledge of the limitations and liabilities even with the coverage.
Too much heartache


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## GeorgeJ. (May 7, 2018)

A couple years ago my wife & I rented two cars from Budget in Las Vegas. I used my Diners Club card to pay for mine (which has primary rental car insurance). She didn't.

On the way back to the airport at 4AM she was following me down I-15 from Sahara to the airport & she got creamed by an 18-wheeler between Sahara & Flamingo. Someone at Budget made a settlement with our insurance company. Then six months later sent her a letter saying we owed them an additional $6000 over what they settled for. I drafted a letter for her telling them to go to hell. Sue us if they wanted. And that by my calculations they had been overpaid by about $1000; I suggested they return that to our insurance company. Never heard from them again.

We were not told of it, but our insurance company got reimbursed by the commercial insurance company that had the insurance on the 18 wheeler...I found out about it a year later when I called them about a hurricane claim..


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## Timeshare Von (May 13, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Recently we rented a car from Alamo in Vegas.  The salesman at the counter gave me a really hard sell that any damages would be billed directly to the credit card and not handled by insurance because "this is Nevada.' When I said that we have primary coverage through our credit card, he said, "we don't take insurance anymore."
> 
> I ignored him and declined their extortion price of  $26/day insurance, but he had me wondering if I had gotten in an accident, would we be covered by the primary insurance on our chase reserve credit card (which would be the same card they would bill.)
> 
> Any thoughts on this? or is this just the latest sales gimmick to convince us to buy insurance we don't need?



Not a gimmick . . . not just Vegas . . . and NOT FUN!

We had a very minor bump with our rental car in Scotland back in March.  We waived the rental company's coverage because we do have excellent coverage with our credit card AND we had coverage via our travel insurance policy as well.  We immediately reported our bump on the back end and they told us to continue on with our rental (we had about 10 more days).

When we returned it, they deducted the full amount of the estimated damages (just under $700) . . . and we were left to handle it with VISA's carrier.  They were very helpful on the front end . . . but!

They would not pay based on what we were charged when we returned the car on 3/30/18 . . . they are requiring the completed repair services invoice.  So now we've been chasing Avis/Budget for about 6 weeks and to no avail regarding getting the actual repair bill for the damages incurred.  Given it is in the UK that adds to the challenges . . . they told us we'd have the receipt as required, within 15 business days.  Still nothing.  So we've tried through the USA contact for Avis/Budget.  They said they would get it resolved immediately . . . and here we are two more weeks later.

I am fearful we'll be SOL on this $700!


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## CalGalTraveler (May 13, 2018)

What bank is the credit card issued? Do you have any recourse through that? It appears they are advertising a product that did not work.


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## BJRSanDiego (May 14, 2018)

Last year when we were on Maui, someone wacked my rental car.  It apparently happened in a parking lot.  No witnesses.   I turned it in to my insurance company plus also worked with my VISA card company.  My insurance deductible was $500.  My insurance company paid for the amount above my deductible minus the "loss of use" and the "administrative fee".  They said that they never cover those two items.  So, they paid $14.  Almost a joke.  But, luckily, the VISA company (after numerous requests for an endless stream of documentation that I had to provide - - 32 pages in total) eventually coughed up the remainder, apparently including the loss of use and admin fee.  So, I had no out-of-pocket.  It sure took a lot of effort to get to that point though.


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## Krteczech (May 21, 2018)

We just rented car from Thrifty on Las Vegas airport and declined insurance with no problem.


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