# In maui and went to a lying Diamonds Int Sales Presentation...blargg



## trader14 (Mar 9, 2019)

So my wife and I are staying at the westin villas on kaanapali and went for a walk down the boardwalk and was approached re free gifts from diamond if we went to their sales presentation.  We don't mind these and actually enjoy looking at the other properties.  Diamond gave us many options and we chose a molokini snorkel trip for 2 and $50 of certificates to be used locally...$330 value

We went to the kaanapali beach hotel, sat through an amazingly boring presentation, visited a 1 bedroom oceanfront which looked wonderful...i commented about how there was no stove and was curtly replied our owners prefer to eat out and we were lol lol lol.  

Two different sales people lied to us - 
first lie was that if we bought from them and wanted to resell and go through the resell process through them the next owner would get all the benefits we received...when i asked what that process looked like she brought the sales manager over who said only next of kin get benefits received from developer.
second lie came from a different sales guy who said that if we bought resale a property in the hawaii collection we could only use it at the property it was deeded from...same sales manager told us that was not true.

we are used to going to these are have no issue always saying no for valid reasons that can't be overcome but never have we ever been so consistently lied to.  I read this forum and i get rinse repeat that timeshare salespeople lie but it makes me sad that people will wither away sometimes $100k on such feeble information.  sure i blame the timeshare salespeople but equally the buyers as well for not doing due diligence

rant over - carry on


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 9, 2019)

trader14 said:


> first lie was that if we bought from them and wanted to resell and go through the resell process through them the next owner would get all the benefits we received...when i asked what that process looked like she brought the sales manager over who said only next of kin get benefits received from developer.
> second lie came from a different sales guy who said that if we bought resale a property in the hawaii collection we could only use it at the property it was deeded from...same sales manager told us that was not true.



On the first one, the sales manager is correct.  On the second the sales guy is correct - but with a caveat. 

If you buy a property in the Hawaii Collection, presumably you are buying a deed at that property.  If that is the case, you only have a usage right at that specific resort; you have no usage right at any other resort in the collection.  So sales guy is correct at that level.

The caveat is that you can also buy on resale an interest in the Hawaii Collection trust. But in that case you are not buying a specific property, but certain number of points in the Hawaii Collection trust.  As a trust owner, your usage includes all resorts in the Hawaii Collection.  So in that situation, the Sales Manager would be correct.


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## zentraveler (Mar 9, 2019)

trader14 said:


> So my wife and I are staying at the westin villas on kaanapali and went for a walk down the boardwalk and was approached re free gifts from diamond if we went to their sales presentation.  We don't mind these and actually enjoy looking at the other properties.  Diamond gave us many options and we chose a molokini snorkel trip for 2 and $50 of certificates to be used locally...$330 value
> 
> We went to the kaanapali beach hotel, sat through an amazingly boring presentation, visited a 1 bedroom oceanfront which looked wonderful...i commented about how there was no stove and was curtly replied our owners prefer to eat out and we were lol lol lol.
> 
> ...



Always good to remind new readers and first time presentation-goers about the lack of reliability of information in presentations and about the need to do due diligence (which in my mind would never agreeing to _anything_ that expensive on the basis a few hour talk, and would include reading the actual contract. Forewarned is forearmed etc....


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## Tamaradarann (Mar 11, 2019)

zentraveler said:


> Always good to remind new readers and first time presentation-goers about the lack of reliability of information in presentations and about the need to do due diligence (which in my mind would never agreeing to _anything_ that expensive on the basis a few hour talk, and would include reading the actual contract. Forewarned is forearmed etc....



I can't begin to comprehend what is being said here about if you buy or don't buy from a developer or resale you can exchange or not exchange into the Kaanapali Beach Resort or another Resort in Hawaii.  We are booked at the Kaanapali Beach Resort for 2 weeks next month.  We used our points from a 2 BR at Misner Place in Southern Florida 25 miles from the Ocean to exchange with RCI to get these weeks.  We will be flying there on April 19th from Honolulu where we have been staying using HGVC points from HGVC resorts that we own in Florida and Las Vegas.  As long as the exchange systems work;  the timeshare systems work.


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## artringwald (Mar 11, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> I can't begin to comprehend what is being said here about if you buy or don't buy from a developer or resale you can exchange or not exchange into the Kaanapali Beach Resort or another Resort in Hawaii.  We are booked at the Kaanapali Beach Resort for 2 weeks next month.  We used our points from a 2 BR at Misner Place in Southern Florida 25 miles from the Ocean to exchange with RCI to get these weeks.  We will be flying there on April 19th from Honolulu where we have been staying using HGVC points from HGVC resorts that we own in Florida and Las Vegas.  As long as the exchange systems work;  the timeshare systems work.


The discussion has to do with Diamond's points system. If you buy points in a Collection, you can use them to book any resort that's part of the Collection without any exchange fees. If you buy the points through resale, you can't book outside the Collection. If you buy the points from the developer, you get membership in The Club. Club membership allows you to book any Diamond owned or affiliated property worldwide without any exchange fees. If you buy from the developer and then sell it to someone else, the Club membership is not transferable, so you will only be able to book within the Collection. Years ago, Diamond (then called Sunterra) sold deeded weeks that came with Club membership. If those deeds are sold, the Club membership is not transferable either. 

Kaanapali Beach Club (not Kaanapali Beach Resort or Hotel) is a Diamond property that is affiliated with RCI and Interval International, so it can be booked through an exchange.


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## Tamaradarann (Mar 11, 2019)

artringwald said:


> The discussion has to do with Diamond's points system. If you buy points in a Collection, you can use them to book any resort that's part of the Collection without any exchange fees. If you buy the points through resale, you can't book outside the Collection. If you buy the points from the developer, you get membership in The Club. Club membership allows you to book any Diamond owned or affiliated property worldwide without any exchange fees. If you buy from the developer and then sell it to someone else, the Club membership is not transferable, so you will only be able to book within the Collection. Years ago, Diamond (then called Sunterra) sold deeded weeks that came with Club membership. If those deeds are sold, the Club membership is not transferable either.
> 
> Kaanapali Beach Club (not Kaanapali Beach Resort or Hotel) is a Diamond property that is affiliated with RCI and Interval International, so it can be booked through an exchange.



OK that is somewhat more understandable.  So if you buy points in a "Collection", what are the resorts in the "Collection"?  What are the resorts in the "Club" that Diamond owns or are affiliated with that are NOT in the "Collection"?  Is the Kaanapali Beach Club in a "Collection"?  What "Collection" is the Kaanapali Beach Resort in if there are more than one?   This sounds somewhat like the HGVC where you can book any resort in the Hilton Grand Vacation Club without going to RCI.  There is a small reservation fee but you can stay for unto 28 days with one reservation not only 7 days.  Resale owners get the same exchange privileges as owners who bought from HGVC.


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## artringwald (Mar 11, 2019)

With points, you can book any number of days with no reservation fee. You can also cancel at any time more than 90 days out, and not lose the points. You can bank points into the next year. It's very convenient, but the maintenance fees are high.

Diamond has many collections, some made up of timeshare properties they acquired. You can find out more about them at: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-faq-of-the-diamond-resorts.64609/

Kaanapali Beach Club is managed by Diamond and is in the Hawaiian Collection. It is often confused with Kaanapali Beach Hotel, which is not a timeshare property. They are only 6 miles apart.


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## zentraveler (Mar 11, 2019)

artringwald, if _98% of timeshare sales people give the rest a bad name_ is your experience that is really fabulous for you. In 20 years of going to them (although admittedly not all that many times, but always with a genuine interest in the property or company, and always with a clear communication of that interest but also stating that we are not going to buy anything on the spot) our odds are WAY lower than yours. 

Also really appreciate the explanation of the DRI system!


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## Swans5 (Mar 18, 2019)

What are your fave "irrefutable no" statements?


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## artringwald (Mar 19, 2019)

Swans5 said:


> What are your fave "irrefutable no" statements?


I could come up with plenty of lies to help make a quick exit, but I wouldn't want to stoop down to their level.

Whatever perks they offer just don't make it worth wasting our valuable vacation time, so we don't attend any presentations/updates/information sessions.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Mar 22, 2019)

We were told that if we bought from them we could get into Hyatt Kaanapali from their interval list. I called them on it as a Hyatt owner, such a false claim. We are at Hyatt Kaanapali now and someone in the hot tub was told the same thing. You will not find that in interval


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## artringwald (Mar 22, 2019)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We were told that if we bought from them we could get into Hyatt Kaanapali from their interval list. I called them on it as a Hyatt owner, such a false claim. We are at Hyatt Kaanapali now and someone in the hot tub was told the same thing. You will not find that in interval


I rarely come to the defense of Diamond sales people, but the Hyatt Residence Club Maui in Ka'anapali Beach is part of the Interval International exchange program. If an owner at HKB deposited their week in Interval International, a Diamond owner with The Club membership could theoretically use their points to book HKB through Interval International. I say theoretically because availability may be a big issue as it is with many of the resorts the sales people say you can book.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Mar 22, 2019)

artringwald said:


> I rarely come to the defense of Diamond sales people, but the Hyatt Residence Club Maui in Ka'anapali Beach is part of the Interval International exchange program. If an owner at HKB deposited their week in Interval International, a Diamond owner with The Club membership could theoretically use their points to book HKB through Interval International. I say theoretically because availability may be a big issue as it is with many of the resorts the sales people say you can book.


It is true that you CAN win the lottery but I would not wish for unsuspecting visitors to buy Diamond with those odds. Otherwise our presentation was fine no disrespect intended. I am a believer that you portray the facts accurately and a good product will sell. The guest we met was excited about buying Diamond to get into Hyatt Kaanapali.  That is misleading


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 2, 2019)

artringwald said:


> With points, you can book any number of days with no reservation fee. You can also cancel at any time more than 90 days out, and not lose the points. You can bank points into the next year. It's very convenient, but the maintenance fees are high.
> 
> Diamond has many collections, some made up of timeshare properties they acquired. You can find out more about them at: https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-faq-of-the-diamond-resorts.64609/
> 
> ...


We just went to a Diamond Presentation at the Modern in Honolulu which Diamond is converting to a timeshare.  I agree that the maintenance was too high for the number of points you get and I told them that as our reason for not buying.  However, some of their benefits were very attractive.  

One particular benefit is that you can give them an RCI resort week and $99 and convert that to 7500 Diamond Points.  Therefore, if you bought their smallest package of 4000 points(which is not enough to get you a week in Hawaii) it would give you 11500 diamond points(which is enough to give you 2 weeks in Hawaii).  Is that true?  Are there restrictions?  Can you give them 4 weeks and pay $396.  That would give you 34000 Diamond Points!!  If you bought resale would you still be able to convert an RCI timeshare into 7500 Diamond Points?

The Hawaii Collection is very limited at this time but adding the Modern gives them 3 Hawaii Resort.  One each on Maui, Kauai and Oahu.  Is there goo availability in Hawaii since the Hawaii Collection also include Las Vegas and California resorts which are usually less sought after?


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## OldGuy (Apr 2, 2019)

The perpetual lying at timeshare presentations, well, from just about everyone in the timeshare industry, certainly is frustrating.

You would think that after almost 50 years they would find a better, more forthright, way to conduct business, or that some authorities, somewhere, would have intervened on behalf of the consumer.

Not gonna happen, though.


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## geist1223 (Apr 2, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> We just went to a Diamond Presentation at the Modern in Honolulu which Diamond is converting to a timeshare.  I agree that the maintenance was too high for the number of points you get and I told them that as our reason for not buying.  However, some of their benefits were very attractive.
> 
> One particular benefit is that you can give them an RCI resort week and $99 and convert that to 7500 Diamond Points.  Therefore, if you bought their smallest package of 4000 points(which is not enough to get you a week in Hawaii) it would give you 11500 diamond points(which is enough to give you 2 weeks in Hawaii).  Is that true?  Are there restrictions?  Can you give them 4 weeks and pay $396.  That would give you 34000 Diamond Points!!  If you bought resale would you still be able to convert an RCI timeshare into 7500 Diamond Points?
> 
> The Hawaii Collection is very limited at this time but adding the Modern gives them 3 Hawaii Resort.  One each on Maui, Kauai and Oahu.  Is there goo availability in Hawaii since the Hawaii Collection also include Las Vegas and California resorts which are usually less sought after?



The sales person is talking about Club Select/Club Combination. Yes there are other restrictions on this program. This has to be written into the Purchase Contract. Normally if you purchase 4,000 DRI Points from the Developer you can have the possibility of an additional 8,000 Points through Club Select/Club Combination. It is not unlimited. These possible Points count toward your DRI Loyalty level even though you do not pay DRI MF on them and even if you do not do the trade in any particular year. The Units you can trade and their value in DRI Points is set out in the Purchase Contract. So when we purchased 7,500 DRI Points the Contract specified we could trade a week in a Worldmark two bedroom unit reserved in Red Season for 8,500 DRI Points and a Worldmark one bedroom unit reserved in Red Seasoon for 6,500 Points. So a possible 15,000 DRI Points. Then when we purchased an additional 8,500 DRI Points last year our Purchase Contract allows us to trade up to two 2 Bedroom Worldmark Units in Red Season for 8,500 Points each or 17,000 DRI Points. So with our Hawaiian Club DRI Points (18500 [We bought 2,500 on the secondary market and these became part of our regular Hawaiian Club when we bought the additional 8,500 Points last August]) and the Club Select/Club Combination we are Platinum.

The other big restriction is that while your regular Hawaiian Club Points purchased from DRI have a 13 month Booking Window in Hawaii the Points you gain through Club Select/Club Combination only have a 10 month Booking Window.

As for availability that varies. But last June we were able to Book a week in August at KBC under the reduced (1/2) Points Program. We have also seen Point of Poipu Units available under this program.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 3, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> The sales person is talking about Club Select/Club Combination. Yes there are other restrictions on this program. This has to be written into the Purchase Contract. Normally if you purchase 4,000 DRI Points from the Developer you can have the possibility of an additional 8,000 Points through Club Select/Club Combination. It is not unlimited. These possible Points count toward your DRI Loyalty level even though you do not pay DRI MF on them and even if you do not do the trade in any particular year. The Units you can trade and their value in DRI Points is set out in the Purchase Contract. So when we purchased 7,500 DRI Points the Contract specified we could trade a week in a Worldmark two bedroom unit reserved in Red Season for 8,500 DRI Points and a Worldmark one bedroom unit reserved in Red Seasoon for 6,500 Points. So a possible 15,000 DRI Points. Then when we purchased an additional 8,500 DRI Points last year our Purchase Contract allows us to trade up to two 2 Bedroom Worldmark Units in Red Season for 8,500 Points each or 17,000 DRI Points. So with our Hawaiian Club DRI Points (18500 [We bought 2,500 on the secondary market and these became part of our regular Hawaiian Club when we bought the additional 8,500 Points last August]) and the Club Select/Club Combination we are Platinum.
> 
> The other big restriction is that while your regular Hawaiian Club Points purchased from DRI have a 13 month Booking Window in Hawaii the Points you gain through Club Select/Club Combination only have a 10 month Booking Window.
> 
> As for availability that varies. But last June we were able to Book a week in August at KBC under the reduced (1/2) Points Program. We have also seen Point of Poipu Units available under this program.



Is there any reduction from the 13 month booking window for resale purchases?

You mention a week in August at KBC.  We are only interested in Hawaii for the December-April Period. What is the availability during that time?


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## geist1223 (Apr 3, 2019)

I do not remember if there is a change in the Booking Window for resell DRI Points but I do not believe there is such a reduction. The big restriction is that resell DRI Points can only be used to Book directly in their Home Collection.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 3, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> I do not remember if there is a change in the Booking Window for resell DRI Points but I do not believe there is such a reduction. The big restriction is that resell DRI Points can only be used to Book directly in their Home Collection.



The Hawaii Home Collection is our main objective.  That is why I asked:
We are only interested in Hawaii for the December-April Period. What is the availability during that time?  Since Las Vegas and California Properties are also in this "Home Collection", the amount of points sold in this collection is much greater than the availability in Hawaii.  ALL OWNERS in this collection get the 13 month priority booking so theoretically if many of those owners want to book Hawaii the demand could overwhelm the supply with no availability as the result.


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## geist1223 (Apr 3, 2019)

We have never had a problem making a Reservation in Hawaii. This includes Point of Poipu and KBC. The times we have reserved are August and September. We were at the Modern Honolulu this January. I looked at Point Saver (half the number of normal Points) Reservations for the next 60 days. There were several units available at KBC and numerous units available at the Point at Poipu to include an Oceanfront.


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