# Sunterra Help- What do I own?



## Maz (Apr 18, 2007)

Hi All,

Maybe you can help me figure this out. 

I had someone offer me an ownership at Sedona Summit. I wasnt in the market but they were willing to sell it to me for $100 so I took it. 

They said it was 18,000 pts. I knew it would no longer be points when it ended up in my name but thats okay with me.

Now that it is officially transferred into my name I have tried calling Sunterra several times to get some idea what it has become now that the points aspect has been stripped away. One guy said it was "around" a 2br. Isnt there some way I can get an exact definition of what I own? My maint fee is approx. $1150 per year.

What do I own? Thanks-Maz


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## nightnurse613 (Apr 18, 2007)

Youch.  At $1150 in m/f it should be a REAL NICE 3 bedroom. $100 is a good starting price, though.  Heh, it's Sedona (more or less).  It must have been Sunterra Points.  Is there a reference to Sunterra Points in the sticky (above)? Sorry, no help.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 18, 2007)

Isn't there a deed? I would think there would have to be a property description on the deed.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

Maz said:


> Hi All,  Maybe you can help me figure this out.
> I had someone offer me an ownership at Sedona Summit. I wasnt in the market but they were willing to sell it to me for $100 so I took it.
> They said it was 18,000 pts. I knew it would no longer be points when it ended up in my name but thats okay with me.
> Now that it is officially transferred into my name I have tried calling Sunterra several times to get some idea what it has become now that the points aspect has been stripped away. One guy said it was "around" a 2br. Isnt there some way I can get an exact definition of what I own? My maint fee is approx. $1150 per year.  What do I own? Thanks-Maz


Without seeing your deed, I say you own an UnDivided interest-UDI worth 18,000 points.  It's easy to see what you can book at the resort by looking at Pg17 of the SunOptions Directory.  Your MF is 15% below what they sell as 18,000 SunOptions in the Trust.  Go here for more Sunterra info.


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## Maz (Apr 19, 2007)

Yes, it was originally points. 18,000 pts. But..Those were stripped away once I bought it  as a resale.

My maint fee bill says this:

2007 maint fee: $904.68
2007 replacement reserve: $215.10
2007 Sedona City Tax: $63

Total: $1182.78

The legal description on the deed refers to it as "an undivided interest at Sedona Summit"....

If I was to actually use my ownership at my home resort would this only get me a 2br or maybe a 2br plus a 1br? Does the original 18,000 pts still apply but ONLY at my home resort? The resort is red time year round so there are not different seasons (unless there are different seasons internally with Sunterra).

Thanks all! Maz


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## Maz (Apr 19, 2007)

Hi Spence,

I just reviewed the sunterra points chart you linked. So I would still have my 18,000 points to spend every year but they can only be use at my home resort? Then, one I have reserved time using my points, I either use those reservations or....Bank them with RCI? Sound correct? Thanks-Maz


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## PeelBoy (Apr 19, 2007)

I am confused. If my memory serves me well, a 2 bedroom at summt has 10,500 points.

It look like you have a deed 2 bedroom float at Summit.  I don't think you are in the club or the trust, unless you join.

If you have the deed, you can bank it with RCI.

If you have points, you have II via Sunterra.


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## PeelBoy (Apr 19, 2007)

$100 for either a 2 bedroom deed or 18,000 UDI trust points is a steal.

2 weeks ago, the final bid at ebay for 18000 points was over $3,000.

If you are not happy, lots of tuggers are willing to pay you a hundred dollars.

I am a happy Sunterra club member, since 1997.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

Maz said:


> Hi Spence,
> I just reviewed the sunterra points chart you linked. So I would still have my 18,000 points to spend every year but they can only be use at my home resort? Then, one I have reserved time using my points, I either use those reservations or....Bank them with RCI? Sound correct? Thanks-Maz


Exactly.  The only thing I don't know and maybe you'll tell us when you find out from the resort... I expect that in this set up there is no facility to save or borrow points from year to year.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I am confused. If my memory serves me well, a 2 bedroom at summt has 10,500 points.
> It look like you have a deed 2 bedroom float at Summit.  I don't think you are in the club or the trust, unless you join.
> If you have the deed, you can bank it with RCI.
> If you have points, you have II via Sunterra.


You are drastically wrong, Deeds can be weeks or UDI/points, having a UDI/points deed doesn't mean you're necessarily in the Club.  You don't need memory, just the SunOptions Directory to tell you what a 2BR 'costs' in each season.  I'm sure there are many TUGgers who would like a sweetheart deal like that.


PeelBoy said:


> $100 for either a 2 bedroom deed or 18,000 UDI trust points is a steal.
> 2 weeks ago, the final bid at ebay for 18000 points was over $3,000.
> If you are not happy, lots of tuggers are willing to pay you a hundred dollars.
> I am a happy Sunterra club member, since 1997.


Actually, the last eBay auction for 18,000 points was a Trust membership Item number: 300099911414 that went for $4558.99 incl CC w/MF-Club Dues of $1584.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> If you have points, you have II via Sunterra.



He doesn't have Club Sunterra, so I don't think he has II via Sunterra.  IIUC, he works directly with an exchange company, just like most non-club affiliated timeshare owners do.  If he has UDI/points, he reserves a trust week then deposits that week with an exchange company.  If he has a deeded float week, he reserves a week at his resort, then deposits that with an exchange company.

Access to II via Club Sunterra is only available for Club members.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> He doesn't have Club Sunterra, so I don't think he has II via Sunterra.  IIUC, he works directly with an exchange company, just like most non-club affiliated timeshare owners do.  *If he has UDI/points, he reserves a trust week then deposits that week with an exchange company*.  If he has a deeded float week, he reserves a week at his resort, then deposits that with an exchange company.
> 
> Access to II via Club Sunterra is only available for Club members.



If he has UDI/points at Sedona Summit he has a deeded week and no sort of Sunterra 'Trust' is involved.  This is like having a floating week at Sedona Summit only and you can  resrerve whatever your points may allow (ex:size, season).  Whether you can book partial weeks or what happens to orphaned points, we need OP to give us feedback.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2007)

Spence said:


> If he has UDI/points at Sedona Summit he has a deeded week and no sort of Sunterra 'Trust' is involved.  This is like having a floating week at Sedona Summit only and you can  resrerve whatever your points may allow (ex:size, season).  Whether you can book partial weeks or what happens to orphaned points, we need OP to give us feedback.



Tx, Spence.  I keep on learning more of the little wrinkles of Sunterra.  Sunterra still has a ways to go before it attains the complexity of Raintree, though.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Tx, Spence.  I keep on learning more of the little wrinkles of Sunterra.  Sunterra still has a ways to go before it attains the complexity of Raintree, though.


I own quite a few UDIs like he has described at a few Sunterra resorts (CPGV, GB, VdeSF, SBS) but I've quickly put them back into the Club so I never had to use them in that orphaned status.


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## timeos2 (Apr 19, 2007)

Sound like Sedona was originally set up as Cypress Pointe Grande Villas was at one time. You bought "points" (UDI) that were resort specific - they had nothing to do with Club Sunterra which didn't even exist yet. In the original CPGV documentation, which is on line at their web site, you can find the point values for the different configurations at the resort.  They didn't use that system for very long as the Club started up and replaced it. At CPGV there were also "regular" deeded weeks sold in one, two or three bedroom unit styles. So if you buy into CPGV you might be buying deeded week units, UDI internal point units or Club Sunterra original deeded or Club Sunterra Trust in one, two or three bedroom styles. Whew!  If that isn't confusing enough tell me how they managed to split the annual fees over the 1-2-3 BR owners with the one bedroom - $535.58; two bedroom - $671.43; and three bedroom - $788.74. for 2007. Anyone with a 1 bedroom is paying a totally disproportionate share of the annual fees.  What a mess to bill and to handle reservations for.  I was once offered a free ownership at CPGV and after I researched what it was I was being offered and what the ongoing costs would be I had to say "no thanks".  Too many questions and too much potential exposure to rising costs for my taste.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2007)

Let me be sure I've got it down, then, when the resort is set up with UDI.

At the time that's done, an inventory of points is established, established from a matrix of unit type and season.  Carry the calculation out for each unit and you have a total points inventory for the resort.

When the resort is sold, each UDI is for a specific number of those points, and the points for that UDI are attached to the deed.

If the UDI is added to Club Sunterra, then those points become SunOptions.  Otherwise, they are points usable only at the resort.

****

The follow-up question is whether that same concept also occurs in the trust - i.e., are there Trust UDIs with associated points usable in the Trust?  I suppose that's the case, because that's what an owner of the Hawai'i trust would have if they bought a trust interest on the resale market.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Sound like Sedona was originally set up as Cypress Pointe Grande Villas was at one time. You bought "points" (UDI) that were resort specific - they had nothing to do with Club Sunterra which didn't even exist yet. In the original CPGV documentation, which is on line at their web site, you can find the point values for the different configurations at the resort.  They didn't use that system for very long as the Club started up and replaced it. At CPGV there were also "regular" deeded weeks sold in one, two or three bedroom unit styles. So if you buy into CPGV you might be buying deeded week units, UDI internal point units or Club Sunterra original deeded or Club Sunterra Trust in one, two or three bedroom styles. Whew!  If that isn't confusing enough tell me how they managed to split the annual fees over the 1-2-3 BR owners with the one bedroom - $535.58; two bedroom - $671.43; and three bedroom - $788.74. for 2007. Anyone with a 1 bedroom is paying a totally disproportionate share of the annual fees.  What a mess to bill and to handle reservations for.  I was once offered a free ownership at CPGV and after I researched what it was I was being offered and what the ongoing costs would be I had to say "no thanks".  Too many questions and too much potential exposure to rising costs for my taste.



OK - I amend my previous post.  Sunterra and Raintree are neck-and-neck for the award of most confusing and complicated mini-system.


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## Maz (Apr 19, 2007)

Well, it looks like this is an ownership which gives me 18,000 pts a year but these points can only be used as points at my home resort of Sedona Summit....If I want to use this ownership at any other Sunterra or NON-Sunterra resort, I would need to reserve time at my home resort and then deposit that time with RCI and then make exchanges. Sound about right? 

Based on the points chart Spence linked me to, 18,000 pts would allow me to reserve a lot of time at Sedone Summit...This would explain the $1185 per year maint. fees. Maz


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Let me be sure I've got it down, then, when the resort is set up with UDI.
> At the time that's done, an inventory of points is established, established from a matrix of unit type and season.  Carry the calculation out for each unit and you have a total points inventory for the resort.
> When the resort is sold, each UDI is for a specific number of those points, and the points for that UDI are attached to the deed.
> If the UDI is added to Club Sunterra, then those points become SunOptions.  Otherwise, they are points usable only at the resort.
> ...


That's about it.  My UDI deeds at resorts say I own thus and such pecentage of a block of units and the units are stated.  the percentage is given as my number of points divided by the total number of points allotted for the units.  That should match a week by point breakdown for those units out of the SunOptions Directory.  The 'Trust' (either) is done the same way but you never see the deed.


T_R_Oglodyte said:


> OK - I amend my previous post.  Sunterra and Raintree are neck-and-neck for the award of most confusing and complicated mini-system.


You're on your own.  I don't know anything about any rainforests.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

Maz said:


> Well, it looks like this is an ownership which gives me 18,000 pts a year but these points can only be used as points at my home resort of Sedona Summit....If I want to use this ownership at any other Sunterra or NON-Sunterra resort, I would need to reserve time at my home resort and then deposit that time with RCI and then make exchanges. Sound about right?
> 
> Based on the points chart Spence linked me to, 18,000 pts would allow me to reserve a lot of time at Sedone Summit...This would explain the $1185 per year maint. fees. Maz


In post#4 I told you that the MF was reasonable.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 19, 2007)

*No Thanks For Sure.*




timeos2 said:


> I was once offered a free ownership at CPGV and after I researched what it was I was being offered and what the ongoing costs would be I had to say "no thanks".  Too many questions and too much potential exposure to rising costs for my taste.


Elevators in the condo building & maxi-size mini-kitchens in the 1BR "B" unit lock-offs can't even make up for something like that.  So it goes. 

I once won an eBay auction for an alternate-year CPGV 1BR unit that, when the dust settled, turned out to be every-year -- or maybe it was advertised as every-year & turned out to be alternate-year, I don't remember exactly after all the time that's gone by.  In any case, whichever the eBay reading material said it was, it turned out instead to be the other.  The eBay seller, a timeshare resale broker, acknowledged the mistake & gave me my choice of going through with the sale at my winning bid price, or dropping it.  I asked for 24 hours to research the maintenance-fee situation, expecting that a 1BR unit would be way cheaper per year than the Floating Diamond 3BR units I was familiar with.  When the result of my research showed the the 1BR annual fee was disproportionately high in comparison with 3BR fees, I thanked the eBay seller for his forthrightness & told him no thanks on going through with the sale -- no harm & no foul.  

I suspect the annual fees for those oddball UDIs at that timeshare are also seriously out of whack.  When those turn up on eBay now & then, I don't even think about bidding. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## PeelBoy (Apr 19, 2007)

Sunterra is difficult to understand, though after 10 years.

With 18000 points, an owner can book about 12 days 2 bedroom at Summit, not bad for an MF of about $1000.

With club membership, my 10000 sunoptions go an extra mile.  I can book a 1 bedroom for 2 weeks at Marriotts and Royals via II, or 4 weeks if using the 59 day window, or even more during off season.

If I have 18000 points sweet deal, I don't mind converting it to club membership, for 6 to 7 weeks of vacation in a top end resort, if such a conversion still exists.

Can a trust owner exchange a Royal 2 bedroom with 6500 points?  Do trust owners exchange via II in the same manner like club members?

I have been biding every UDI trust at ebay for 6 months, of course unsuccessfully.  Despite most tuggers perceive Sunterra news bad news, I find resale sunterra trust points are more expensive than RCI and FF points, perhaps not as expensive as Shell and Intrawest.

I wish my sweet deal would come soon.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> Do trust owners exchange via II in the same manner like club members?



Only if the trust ownership has been converted to or affiliated with Club Sunterra.  That, of course, excludes resales unless and until the buyer ponies up to join Club Sunterra.

If the trust ownership has not been joined to Club Sunterra, the owner does not have access to Club Sunterra, and by extension, does not have access to II via Club Sunterra.  At that point, the trust owner is like any other II  member.


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## PeelBoy (Apr 21, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Only if the trust ownership has been converted to or affiliated with Club Sunterra.  That, of course, excludes resales unless and until the buyer ponies up to join Club Sunterra.
> 
> If the trust ownership has not been joined to Club Sunterra, the owner does not have access to Club Sunterra, and by extension, does not have access to II via Club Sunterra.  At that point, the trust owner is like any other II  member.




Do trust owners have access to II, RCI or an exchange company?  I believe they exchange via II.  If so, how?  I guess they don't have 50% discount if exchanged within 59 days.

I have been bidding for trust points for a few months, but still don't have clear answers.

You can tell my motive is to buy trust points to exchange.


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## Spence (Apr 21, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Only if the trust ownership has been converted to or affiliated with Club Sunterra.  That, of course, excludes resales unless and until the buyer ponies up to join Club Sunterra.
> 
> If the trust ownership has not been joined to Club Sunterra, the owner does not have access to Club Sunterra, and by extension, does not have access to II via Club Sunterra.  At that point, the trust owner is like any other II  member.


I thought TROg was fairly clear.


PeelBoy said:


> Do trust owners have access to II, RCI or an exchange company?  I believe they exchange via II.  If so, how?  I guess they don't have 50% discount if exchanged within 59 days.
> I have been bidding for trust points for a few months, but still don't have clear answers. You can tell my motive is to buy trust points to exchange.


What are you waiting for?  I've bought Trust off eBay recently for 22¢/pt and I'm sure there've been better deals I've not noticed.


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## pedro47 (Apr 21, 2007)

Can you used the 59 days window to trade outside of Sunterra for half points to a non Sunterra resort?


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