# Just purchase HGVC Paradise



## lake123 (Sep 22, 2014)

Hello all, 

I am new to the TS and this board.  Forgive me if I seems to be ask annoying questions. 

I just won the 3500 points for HGVC @Paradise (Las Vegas).  The unit is 
Use week: Floating Silver (annual -Weeks 1-4 & 49-50)
size: 2 bd
points: 3500

I am planning to use it on the Hilton Hawaii Village for my family during summer (Week#32).  Per the sale agent, it is 3500 points and can be used at any HGVC resource at any time, it maybe smaller unit depending on the season of used.   

Do you know if she is correct?  If so, why does it has to be listed as week1-4 & 49 -50?  Is there any things i should be concern? 

Thank you all so much, 

LN


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## HatTrick (Sep 22, 2014)

Weeks 1-4 and 49-50 are the silver "home weeks" in Las Vegas. Home week reservations are 7-night stays at the resort you bought into (Paradise) in the season (silver) and unit type (2 bedroom) you purchased that can be made a year in advance at no cost other than clubpoints.

Your 3500 points can be used at HHV (or at any other HGVC property) during club season, which begins 9 months prior to your requested check-out date. A reservation fee will apply in addition to the points you use.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 22, 2014)

Did you win this on eBay?


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## PigsDad (Sep 22, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Did you win this on eBay?



The OP mentioned their "sales agent", so it sounds like they purchased from the developer.  So I will be the first to say:

OP:  Rescind if you can!  Check your contract and see how long you have to rescind, and if you are still in that window, do it immediately.  A Silver season week is a horrible purchase.

Kurt


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## SmithOp (Sep 22, 2014)

*HGVC Information*

Here is a link to the online documentation for the HGVC system.

http://www.hgvclubprogram.com/

If you look into the Resort Collection, and pick US-Hawaii-Oahu you will see the HHV properties.  In each property, near the bottom right is a list of the point values to determine what you can book with 3500 points.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 22, 2014)

I asked eBay because he said he WON ... but I was figuring he might have brought it from the developer who "convinced him" he was in a bidding war for the Silver week ... :rofl: Funny to us TUG members what a sale's weasel will do and say to sell a person so they get a lousy couple of hundreds of dollars on their split of the real estate commission.

As I told an very causal friend years ago, "I now know how little your word is worth." And then I walked away ... in current terms, I 'unfriended' them.

Go look at eBay auctions and completed auctions for Hilton Grand Vacations Club and/or HGVC under "real estate".


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## got4boys (Sep 22, 2014)

If you are just looking for points, go with the smallest size unit in highest season.

You are buying a 2 bedroom in Silver Season for 3500 points. The maintenance fees is the same for a 2 bedroom in Gold Season which gets you 5000 points and Platinum which gets you 7000 points.

Yes, initial cost may be low...but the maintenance fees (if you want to add on later) is high for cost per point.

If you are looking for points - I would suggest buying a 1 bedroom - Platinum (4800 points) or 1 bedroom gold (3400 points). They are the lowest maintenance fees.


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## presley (Sep 22, 2014)

lake123 said:


> I am planning to use it on the Hilton Hawaii Village for my family during summer (Week#32).  Per the sale agent, it is 3500 points and can be used at any HGVC resource at any time, it maybe smaller unit depending on the season of used.



You can use it for HHV, but that is a very high demand week.  You will need to book it exactly at the 9 month mark.  If you miss booking by a couple days, you'll probably miss out.

The lagoon Tower and Kalia tower requires 2200 points for a studio for week 32.
A one bedroom requires 4800 points.

The Grand Waikikian tower requires 7200 points for the cheapest room.


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## lake123 (Sep 22, 2014)

Hello all and thank you so much for all your warm welcome and helpful replies.  I won it on eBay for !$100.  Sorry, if i don't use all the terms correctly.  You are right!  The MF is $1K / year.  The $7k points is going for $7K.    I don't own any timeshare so this will be my first one if it goes thru.  A friend recommends owning HGVC and i am thinking of starting off low and add points later.   Seems  like this approach is not a good idea.  Should i just start with $7K platinum? 

Thank you so much for your kindness and helpful replies. 

LN


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## lake123 (Sep 22, 2014)

got4boys said:


> If you are just looking for points, go with the smallest size unit in highest season.
> 
> *You are buying a 2 bedroom in Silver Season for 3500 points. The maintenance fees is the same for a 2 bedroom in Gold Season which gets you 5000 points and Platinum which gets you 7000 points.*
> 
> ...



*You are buying a 2 bedroom in Silver Season for 3500 points. The maintenance fees is the same for a 2 bedroom in Gold Season which gets you 5000 points and Platinum which gets you 7000 points.*

Excellent point!!! I didn't realize that.  The only thing is that 7000 points / Platinum is going for $7K.  Wooch!  i got this one for $100, but i will be paying a hefty MF over time.  This is a difficult decision!  Thank you!


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## HatTrick (Sep 22, 2014)

If you can visit Hawaii in weeks 19-22 (May) or 36-41 September, your points will go a lot farther. These are the gold weeks (Hawaii has only platinum and gold) and you save around 30%.

The Lagoon/Kalia studio drops from 2200 points to 1600; the 1-bedroom is 3400 points (from 4800). And that 7200-point GW 1-bedroom drops to 5100.


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## SmithOp (Sep 22, 2014)

lake123 said:


> *You are buying a 2 bedroom in Silver Season for 3500 points. The maintenance fees is the same for a 2 bedroom in Gold Season which gets you 5000 points and Platinum which gets you 7000 points.*
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point!!! I didn't realize that.  The only thing is that 7000 points / Platinum is going for $7K.  Wooch!  i got this one for $100, but i will be paying a hefty MF over time.  This is a difficult decision!  Thank you!




There is a reason you "won" it for $100, it's not a good HGVC buy.  $1 a platinum point is the going rate.

Are you sure you understand you will be on the hook for life paying hefty MF, unless you can unload it for $100 to the next buyer.


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## lake123 (Sep 22, 2014)

SmithOp said:


> There is a reason you "won" it for $100, it's not a good HGVC buy.  $1 a platinum point is the going rate.
> 
> Are you sure you understand you will be on the hook for life paying hefty MF, unless you can unload it for $100 to the next buyer.



@SmithOp (Dave), Thank you for your inputs.  The way i see it, I have to pay for the hefty MF anyway, does not matter what i get.  The difference is the same MF should get me  2BD/2BR, rather than a studio for every years, for life.   And also, off-loading it would be a nightmare. YIKE!  Thank you!


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## SmithOp (Sep 22, 2014)

lake123 said:


> @SmithOp, Thank you for your thought.  The way i see it, I have to pay for the hefty MF anyway, does not matter what i get.  The difference is the same MF should get me  2BD/2BR, rather than a studio for every years, for life.   And also, off-loading it would be a nightmare. YIKE!  Thank you!




That's good, you seem like a quick study, stick around and read the forum and the "stickies" up top, you can make a much better purchase once you learn the ropes.


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## lake123 (Sep 24, 2014)

*Hilton Grand Pacific Palisades*

May i ask a few more question?  

Why some of the Grand Pacific Palisades properties listed with Hilton (HGVC) points and some are not?  

This resource seems to have the right entry price point and low MF fee for 7000 points.  It is just hard to find one with 7000 HGVC platinum points.  There are many 2bd/2br on the resale at the low cost, but they are not HGVC points.


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## SmithOp (Sep 24, 2014)

Palisades has some units that have been enrolled in HGVC for a fee, some still retain the Grand Pacific Resorts brand and trade in GPX and RCI.  When you buy a unit with enrolled HGVC points there will be an additional $995 fee.  Marbrisa has early phase units built by GPR, the new phase have HGVC design and points sold by HGVC, they manage it now.  
The 7000 point units are summer weeks, hard to find because people either rent or stay there, it's a competitive market for the summer beach weeks.


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## presley (Sep 24, 2014)

lake123 said:


> May i ask a few more question?
> 
> Why some of the Grand Pacific Palisades properties listed with Hilton (HGVC) points and some are not?



Grand Pacific Palisades and Carlsbad Seapointe are affiliates with HGVC.  That means that the resorts are not HGVC, but they trade/have some HGVC benefits.  Owners were able to upgrade for a short time to include HGVC with their weeks. You can buy a resale week for one of those at the GPR resale department and have it converted to HGVC during the closing.  The resales there are very expensive compared to what you can find anywhere else.  

Marbrisa is now a HGVC that is managed by GPR.  There are some very old contracts that were before HGVC, but most will already be HGVC.


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## Ron98GT (Sep 24, 2014)

lake123 said:


> Hello all and thank you so much for all your warm welcome and helpful replies.  I won it on eBay for !$100.  Sorry, if i don't use all the terms correctly.  You are right!  The MF is $1K / year.  The $7k points is going for $7K.    I don't own any timeshare so this will be my first one if it goes thru.  A friend recommends owning HGVC and i am thinking of starting off low and add points later.   Seems  like this approach is not a good idea.  Should i just start with $7K platinum?
> 
> Thank you so much for your kindness and helpful replies.
> 
> LN


Since you only paid $100 for a Vegas TS, maybe you'll get lucky and Hilton will ROFR it, maybe. From what I'm reading, I didn't check the member guide, it sounds like you need at least 4800 points to get a 1-Bdrm for a summer Lagoon Tower week at HHV?  You might be able to pick up a 4800 point TS for about $2000, or just under 50-cents/points. For 7K points, a HGVC TS will run you about $1/point.  You could look at some of the HGVC affiliates, like the Bay Club in Hawaii or some of the affiliates on Marco Island in Florida, which sell for significantly less money.  i.e., 7K, annual, Bay Club, would be about $1000.  If you look at the MI prop's, only look at fixed weeks, no floaters, so that you get your 7K points.


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## lake123 (Sep 30, 2014)

ok.. Another question, plz.   How about owning 7000 platinum points, annual of HGVC at International Drive? I will mainly used it in exchange for HHV (Hawaii).  $4K with $1300 MF.  Is it worth the deal? 

Also, i have a similar offer at HGVC @Bay Club as well, but I have to pay $500 to convert to 7000 points.  I cannot decide which one is a better buy. 

Thank you so much!


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## 1Kflyerguy (Sep 30, 2014)

lake123 said:


> ok.. Another question, plz.   How about owning 7000 platinum points, annual of HGVC at International Drive? I will mainly used it in exchange for HHV (Hawaii).  $4K with $1300 MF.  Is it worth the deal?
> 
> Also, i have a similar offer at HGVC @Bay Club as well, but I have to pay $500 to convert to 7000 points.  I cannot decide which one is a better buy.
> 
> Thank you so much!



At least to me, that seems like a reasonable deal.  You need to key an eye on the maintenance fees, some resorts like the LV Boulevard, aka LV Strip  location are closer to 1K per year.  But they may sell for a bit more up front, plus I believe HGVC is more aggressive with the ROFL at the Strip location for some reason.

You may find the Bay Club for bit less if you keep looking..   Do you think you might actually stay on big island, and Bay Club in particular vs HHV?  If so, that would tip the scales for me.  Everything being equal, its better to own where you stay.


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## Ron98GT (Sep 30, 2014)

lake123 said:


> ok.. Another question, plz.   How about owning 7000 platinum points, annual of HGVC at International Drive? I will mainly used it in exchange for HHV (Hawaii).  $4K with $1300 MF.  Is it worth the deal?
> 
> Also, i have a similar offer at HGVC @Bay Club as well, but I have to pay $500 to convert to 7000 points.  I cannot decide which one is a better buy.
> 
> Thank you so much!


But what's the price for the Bay Club, $1,000?  I assume it's an annual?  Your MF's for the Bay Club are only slightly higher than I-Drive, wow.

I say, go with the Bay Club, definitely a better buy if the BC is $1000 or less.  Since the Bay Club is an affiliate, there is no ROFR, at least not for now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-at-the-...31347167853?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35dd5da26d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-BAY-CLU...31263793773?pt=Timeshares&hash=item1e8fee8a6d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-BAY-CLU...31263784979?pt=Timeshares&hash=item1e8fee6813


Seriously doubt that you can purchase the I-Drive for $4K.  Since it's below $1/point or 7K points, way below, it won't pass ROFR.


Any word on the Paradise TS that you won for $100? I still don't think that it will pass ROFR.


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## icydog (Sep 30, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> But what's the price for the Bay Club, $1,000?  I assume it's an annual?  Your MF's for the Bay Club are only slightly higher than I-Drive, wow.
> 
> I say, go with the Bay Club, definitely a better buy if the BC is $1000 or less.  Since the Bay Club is an affiliate, there is no ROFR, at least not for now.
> 
> ...



Sometimes the PC companies add money to the paperwork from the original owner. That can raise the deal to an acceptable level for Hilton.


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## lake123 (Oct 1, 2014)

@Ron, 

Yes, the BC's MF is ~$1500 (more than I-Drive) and he is asking $4K.  Per your links on eBay, $4K is way too much.  But how often did the deal like these come around on eBay?  Can BC really be trade with HHV? 

I was bad with the Paradise.  It was a mistake on my part.  I didn't see and understand the MF.  I didn't sign the contract yet so i have to cancel the deal.  It went back on ebay for $1, but no one is bidding.

So, for I-Drive, you think $4K will get ROFR, uh? 

I bought the Marriott Ko'Olina for similar unit for $8K and they ROFR-ed it. 

Thank you so much,


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 1, 2014)

BC points are like any other HGVC points.  Yes it an affiliate, but it is a strange affiliate, as they struck a deal with HGVC and sold them the rest of the land that the other 2 HGVC properties were built on.  So I don't see any change of status for any time to come.  Some other affiliates are on less stable arrangements.  Hilton has not every to my knowledge dumped an affiliate.  There might be concerns not because what Hilton has done, but only because what Marriott has done.  Marriott dumped affiliation will several properties, thus devaluing their value on the resale market.  Hilton affiliates are cast in a negative light only for that reason.  I know of no other reason. 

But look at the math...

BC MF are not that high.  I own a 2BR.  It is just over $1300.  I took the cost of membership fees out of the math, as you would have to pay them where you own.  If you own multiple you only pay the fee once, so I am trying to compare apples to apples..

If you can purchase for 1.5K BC vs 7 - 8K SW for a 7000 point unit, what is the break even point for ownership?   So rounding to $900 MF for SeaWorld that $400 difference annually, It will take over 15 years of ownership to make up the difference in purchase price. 

Just something else to consider.


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## Ron98GT (Oct 1, 2014)

lake123 said:


> @Ron,
> 
> Yes, the BC's MF is ~$1500 (more than I-Drive) and he is asking $4K.  Per your links on eBay, $4K is way too much.  But how often did the deal like these come around on eBay?  Can BC really be trade with HHV?
> 
> ...


I own a 7K TS at the BC and my MF's are not ~$1500, they are closer to I-Drives: see Sandy's post regarding her MF's.

$4,000 for a standard 2-BDRM at the BC is way, way, to high.  Take a look in the TUG Marketplace and you'll find 2-BDRM's there for under $4,000, but those are priced to high also.  Somewhere around $1,000 is the going price.  If you can get it for less, which you can see happens on eBay so much the better.  But I wouldn't go much over $1,000 if you find one.

The real catch is the the 2-BDRM Villa's at the BC, which have 8400 HGVC points.  But those even sell for less than $4,000. 

Don't look, don't walk, but run away from that $4,000 BC.

By the way, if you do bid on a TS on eBay, or bid on anything, make sure you use eSnipe and set the bid time for 4 or 5 seconds:

http://www.esnipe.com/


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## Ron98GT (Oct 1, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> BC points are like any other HGVC points.  Yes it an affiliate, but it is a strange affiliate, as they struck a deal with HGVC and sold them the rest of the land that the other 2 HGVC properties were built on.  So I don't see any change of status for any time to come.
> 
> But look at the math...
> 
> BC MF are not that high.  I own a 2BR.  It is just over $1300.  I took the cost of membership fees out of the math, as you would have to pay them where you own.



FYI, the Bay Club used to be condo's before most of the units were subdivided and resold as TS's, along with the excess land sold to Hilton/HGVC to build TS's (Waikoloa Beach Resort (WBR) next door and King's Land (KL)).  Not all the the condo's were originally converted to Bay Club TS's and some units remained as privately owned Condo's.  Over the years, Hilton/HGVC as been buying up those condo's and has been subdividing them and reselling themselves.  BC is a convoluted/commingled mess, which is good for a BC owner. The chances of BC no longer being a part of HGVC is probably slim to none.


I agree with Sandy. Although the MF's are slightly higher than I-Drive, but with the buy-in cost so significantly lower ($1,000 vs $7,000), the BC is a great way to get into the HGVC system with little up front cost.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 1, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> FYI, the Bay Club used to be condo's before most of the units were subdivided and resold as TS's, along with the excess land sold to Hilton/HGVC to build TS's (Waikoloa Beach Resort (WBR) next door and King's Land (KL)).



You got that mostly right.  The units were originally sold as wholly owned condos, targeting the Asian market, until it fell.  Then they converted the purpose to timeshares, Then the land owned by BC and all sold to HGVC.  I understand there are a few remaining wholly owned condos, but not many.  

What you got wrong.  The units were never subdivided.  They are in their original footprints.  They have recently been updated, But they were never divided up.  

I owned there before HGVC came along.


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## Ron98GT (Oct 1, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> You got that mostly right.  The units were originally sold as wholly owned condos, targeting the Asian market, until it fell.  Then they converted the purpose to timeshares, Then the land owned by BC and all sold to HGVC.  I understand there are a few remaining wholly owned condos, but not many.
> 
> What you got wrong.  The units were never subdivided.  They are in their original footprints.  They have recently been updated, But they were never divided up.
> 
> I owned there before HGVC came along.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subdivide

Each condo (at the Bay Club) had an individual legal description.  Before "a" condo unit can become a "weekly" timeshare, it must be subdivided into 52 individual units/weeks. with some sort of legal identity associated with it.  In the state of Nevada, they assign a new parcel number to each unit.  In Hawaii, they seem to keep the parcel numbers the same, but assign weeks numbers to each week (1 thru 52).  But, each individual condo unit must be subdivided down into 52 distinct weeks/units that can then be sold of.

The subdivision has nothing to do with changing the physical foot print, it's for the purpose of legal identification and ownership.

But, yes, the original condo units were "legally", not physically, subdivided, before they became Bay Club Timeshares.  Any condo units that are purchased by Hilton/HGVC, are subdivided into 52 weeks and then are sold of as timeshare units/weeks.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 1, 2014)

I don't need a dictionary lesson. I do know what subdivide means.   
I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night. 
I am not a lawyer or real estate specialist, as the vast majority on this website are not as well.   

But you were talking units, can you see why I went to physical changes to the units.  That is what I was referring to.  

But even the definition had to include states the following.... Examples of SUBDIVIDE The house is being subdivided into several apartments.

You could have mentioned LEGAL changes to identification and ownership.  That I would not have misconstrued for physical.


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## JIMinNC (Oct 1, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> $4,000 for a standard 2-BDRM at the BC is way, way, to high.  Take a look in the TUG Marketplace and you'll find 2-BDRM's there for under $4,000, but those are priced to high also.  Somewhere around $1,000 is the going price.  If you can get it for less, which you can see happens on eBay so much the better.  But I wouldn't go much over $1,000 if you find one.
> 
> The real catch is the the 2-BDRM Villa's at the BC, which have 8400 HGVC points.  But those even sell for less than $4,000.



Interesting discussion. Why do the Bay Club units sell for so much less than the other Hilton timeshares in Waikoloa?


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 1, 2014)

A few  things....

Constant innuendo that because it is an affiliate it is going to leave or get kicked out of HGVC, 

Either ROFR is not in the wording or not being utilized. (Not sure which is correct).

The pool, the darn pool.  It is always the pool access to Hilton Waikoloa. 

I happen to think that it is an overlooked gem of a way to get points for cheap. Provided you know you are paying Hawaii level MFs and you can get a unit at a steal.


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## lake123 (Oct 15, 2014)

Thank you so much to both of you (Sandy and Ron).  I really appreciated your knowledge and for educating me.  Please don't debate any more about the meaning of subdivide, my head hurts.    

Someone just posted a new list for BC at the cheap price (now don't anyone bid me up yet), it is for the odd year unit, which is the same as the pass 3 links that RON posted in this thread a few weeks ago.   I think it may have gotten re-listed because the previous buyer back-out.   Do you both think it is still a good buy for below $1000 ?  and Perhaps, buy another EVEN year unit separately.   I have been searching, the Annual 2/2 =~7000HGVC  are about $4K to $5K. 

Thank you so much! 

*Ownership Information*
  2015 FREE Usage to New Owner
*Number of Bedrooms* 2
*Number of Bathrooms* 2
*Sleeps* 6
*Lock Out* No
*Unit Number* 424
*Week Number* 1-52
*Fixed or Floating* Float 
*Check In Day (s) *Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
*Usage Type* Odd
*1st Year of Usage* 2015
*Right to Use Expires* N/A
*Maintenance Fee Amount* 1390.00
*Maintenance Fees Due * January 1 2017
*Maintenance Fee Schedule*  Odd Years 
*Total Closing / Transfer Fees* 298.00


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## Jason245 (Oct 16, 2014)

lake123 said:


> Thank you so much to both of you (Sandy and Ron).  I really appreciated your knowledge and for educating me.  Please don't debate any more about the meaning of subdivide, my head hurts.
> 
> Someone just posted a new list for BC at the cheap price (now don't anyone bid me up yet), it is for the odd year unit, which is the same as the pass 3 links that RON posted in this thread a few weeks ago.   I think it may have gotten re-listed because the previous buyer back-out.   Do you both think it is still a good buy for below $1000 ?  and Perhaps, buy another EVEN year unit separately.   I have been searching, the Annual 2/2 =~7000HGVC  are about $4K to $5K.
> 
> ...





I sniped a EOY 1br for $.01, all closing and transfer costs included. I am waiting for it to get recorded. All in all, I think I am going to be getting a lot of bang for the buck on that one.


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