# What's the most user friendly FFmiles airline?



## kamumma1 (Jan 31, 2008)

Anyone have any opinions as to what airlines have the best FF miles programs?  I.e. which airlines are most apt to grant your FF miles request.


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## borntotravel (Jan 31, 2008)

Over the years, I have found that US Airways has always been best for us.  Up until the last year, I would have said they were the absolute best - most flights with seats avail, lowest mileage redeption - but now (although I still think they are the best deal), they have fallen in with the others.  It used to be that 20,000 or 25,000 miles was the redemption for a round trip US coach ticket.  Now, if you are lucky, you can get a 25,000 mile seat, but most of them are 35,000 to 50,000.  

I think Northwest is horrible.  My husband is platinum elite and has over 500,000 miles.  To date, we have not used them, because everytime I check for tickets (regardless how far out the travel date is), it's usually 80,000 or more miles for a round trip US coach ticket.  If we were to go to Italy, a business class ticket would cost us around 185,000 miles each (what a rip).

Oh well, I knew the pleasure of "free travel" would end sometime!


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## silvib (Jan 31, 2008)

We have FFmiles with American Airlines and find they have been accommodating so far.  Have some miles with British Airways, but in years past, they weren't so good at crediting them, and used to have some with Iberia, the Spanish airline and they were about the same as BA.  For me, based only on our experience, AA is by far the best.


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## Jimster (Jan 31, 2008)

*miles*

You might as well list all of the airlines here because that's what is going to be here before this thread is over.  The reason for this is the answer is: "It depends".  What does it depend on?  It depends where you fly out of consistently.  If you live in Nome, Alaska I'm sure its not Delta.  If you live in LA, it is not Air Tran.  If you consistently fly out of a hub for one of the airlines, it may well be the airline with the hub in that city.  It also depends on where you want to go.  Don't look for tickets to Singapore on Southwest.  You need to familarize yourself on who flies where.  It may also depend on which airlines are partners with you primary airline.  It may also depend on the class of service you want to redeem your miles for.  In short, it is not a simple question with a cookie cutter answer.  You need to be more specific and you need to invest some serioius research in the issue yourself if you want a satisfactory answer.  You will probably find more agreement over which airlines have the most unfriendly ff programs.  BTW my favorite is United (followed by American) but then I live in Chicago.  When I fly to Europe it is generally AA because AA allows an open jaw and a stop over.  United allows an open jaw or a stop over.  That makes all the difference in the world.


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## falmouth3 (Jan 31, 2008)

I've had good luck with US Airways and United.  However with Northwest, I *never* see trips available for 25000 miles for a domestic ticket.  Maybe I'm not looking for the right trips at the right times.  :annoyed:   I don't know if I'll ever be able to use the miles in that account.

Sue


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## Pat H (Jan 31, 2008)

American & United have been the best for me followed by US & CO. Delta stinks.


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## bigeyes1 (Feb 1, 2008)

Another vote for American Airlines.   It has always been easy to obtain FF seats,  even to Hawaii.  

It's A LOT better than Delta, that's for sure.  Can't comment on the other airlines.


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## Carolinian (Feb 1, 2008)

I have been extremely happy with NW since I comped my status over from DL.  My free upgrades as an elite have cleared on all but one flight, compared to only about 30% of the time at DL.  At least with the elite line, I have done well with award tickets, too.  Just got a trans-Atlantic flight for next summer a couple of days ago at 50K miles.

When Rob Borden's idiot policies at DL (since reversed, see www.saveskymiles.com ) ran me away from DL, I looked at AA, but the problems for someone who travels a lot between Europe and the US are:
1) AA is 60K miles to Europe in high season compared to 50K for everyone else
2) AA's main European partner, BA, is in reality only a ''limited partner'' when it comes to the ff program.  You cannot either earn or burn AA miles on TATL flights on BA


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## Carolinian (Feb 1, 2008)

You can now exclude ALL of the European carriers, as all of them now shortchange flyers on miles on lower prices tickets.  There was a time that Air France's Frequence Plus was a GREAT program for Americans.  Not anymore!


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## MikeM132 (Feb 1, 2008)

I have used AA, and was told they have the most FF availability. I have done well so far with them. I like their website the best, as you can actually pick the flight you want and the number of FF miles it uses. They will also hold your tickets for 14 days on just a reservation---no points required. You don't need the miles in your account to reserve at first---you just need the account. You get 2 weeks to book your return flight and deposit your miles. I have not heard of another airline this liberal.


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## Jimster (Feb 1, 2008)

*airlines*

I agree with almost everything that has been said.  I would add in fairness to AA, however, while they require 60 k to Europe in high season (May 15-Sept 15) they require only 40 K in low season and that's less than any other carrier.  I try to avoid high season if I can so this is a plus not a minus for me.  I realize some people can't do this.   _BUT_ I'll still stand by what I said earlier.  It's not that simple.  If you live in Bloomington, IL or Bozeman, MT or a host of other places, then AA does not fly there.  For that matter, you can't fly into Bozeman on United either.  Delta (which I generally don't like) will get you there.  *It doesn't do you any good if you can't get to the airport to use them.*  You have to consider all the factors.  I'd ask those who fly by you locally to have them give you their opinion.


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 1, 2008)

I have to say Continental. Have had about 20 free flights in the last 20 years, including several to Europe. Many of these miles were generated by use of AMex's membership miles program. 

That said, I always depart from Newark which is dominated by Continental's massive East Coast hub with about 50+ gates.

They have less availability the last decade since being in bankrupcy the last time. Back then you could book regularly two weeks in advance without issue. But I still can book a month ahead in most cases (to the caribbean where they have lots of service).

I will occasionally take AA but find they are like taking a crowded school bus with older planes, packed in seats, etc.


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## x3 skier (Feb 1, 2008)

Since I have lots of miles on Delta, AA and USAir, I shop around. I do find that if I don't find want I want on the web site, Delta's phone reps have been the most helpful, followed by AA and then USAir.

Calling and asking for help is a very good way to get where you want to go, when you want to go for the miles you want to use. With all the partners, you can usually get what you want, eventually.

Cheers


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## Carolinian (Feb 1, 2008)

x3 skier said:


> Since I have lots of miles on Delta, AA and USAir, I shop around. I do find that if I don't find want I want on the web site, Delta's phone reps have been the most helpful, followed by AA and then USAir.
> 
> Calling and asking for help is a very good way to get where you want to go, when you want to go for the miles you want to use. With all the partners, you can usually get what you want, eventually.
> 
> Cheers



I have found the phone reps very helpful, at least on the elite lines, at both NW and DL.  Occaisionally you get one that blows you off quickly, a sign they really haven't looked at all options, and then you just call back and get another one.

It amazes me sometimes at the creative routings that some come up with in order to make things happen, although the rules have tightened up on what they can do in the last few years.  I remember 7 or 8 years ago when I needed to change a summer trip to Bulgaria late in the game when there were slim pickin's across the water.  The elite line rep found nothing after over 30 minutes of trying, and then went to options like flying to Mexico City and connecting to Air France there to get me over the water, and when that didn't work, he was able to lock in a connection with DL to Miami, then picking up the Air France Caribbean service to Guadeloupe, and connecting in Guadeloupe to a flight to Paris on AF.  That was really creative, but required an overnight in Miami and I think one in Guadeloupe as well.  Fortunately, before he booked it, he double checked and a more direct flight over the water had opened up.


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## Carolinian (Feb 1, 2008)

Jimster said:


> I agree with almost everything that has been said.  I would add in fairness to AA, however, while they require 60 k to Europe in high season (May 15-Sept 15) they require only 40 K in low season and that's less than any other carrier.  I try to avoid high season if I can so this is a plus not a minus for me.  I realize some people can't do this.   _BUT_ I'll still stand by what I said earlier.  It's not that simple.  If you live in Bloomington, IL or Bozeman, MT or a host of other places, then AA does not fly there.  For that matter, you can't fly into Bozeman on United either.  Delta (which I generally don't like) will get you there.  *It doesn't do you any good if you can't get to the airport to use them.*  You have to consider all the factors.  I'd ask those who fly by you locally to have them give you their opinion.



 When I was living in the states, my strategy was earn in the off season and burn in the high season.  AA's plan doesn't work as well.  On NW I would earn 20K each (elite double miles) on 5 flghts in off season for 100K miles, then burn on up to two high season flights which cost 50K each or 100K total.  That same pattern on AA would leave me 20K short for the second summer flight.  

But again, that depends on one's travel pattern.  If the Caribbean is the main place one burns miles, some airlines charge 30K and some charge 35K, so one would want to go with an airline that requires fewer miles.


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## Fletcher921 (Feb 1, 2008)

United seems to be most available for me - we just booked business class to europe over spring break a month ago.  Delta's have been the most difficfult to use to use - must get on phone 330 days out to get europe availability...


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## camachinist (Feb 1, 2008)

Not indicative of value, but the sheer size and activity of the UA forum on Flyertalk indicates (and my experience has borne out) that its FF system has a lot of fliers hooked, not only by the perks but by the ability and opportunity to game the system. Complex and convoluted but wow, when it goes "woof" 

I remember one recent glitch where one could fly to Hawaii via Japan for 25K miles  (and a number of folks did exactly that, with a stopover). IIRC, F (first class) was 50K.

Seriously though, I would likely pick AA as the most "user friendly" (the OP here). UA is decidedly very user unfriendly, which is why we love it so much 

Pat


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## Carolinian (Feb 1, 2008)

There is something else on the horizon at Delta that means it will be even less user friendly.  They have already started loading ff seats at different times, not all at 331 days as in the past, which makes it a real crap shoot to use. You often have to keep calling back. They have also started adding extra fees to use partners.

Now DL has in the last few weeks, added a new ''Delta surcharge'' on award tickets (and revenue tickets) from certain markets in Europe, including any flights to or though France which will add an extra $200 to the cost of an award ticket if it originates in Europe and goes through one of those markets. I asked some questions tonight and got to someone at DL's revenue desk who informed me that the ''Delta surcharge'' would soon be expanded to all of Europe and would be covering tickets that originated in the US.  Eventually, she said it would cover ''all travel areas''.  When I asked what it was for, she said ''I don't have a reasonable explanation''.

The reason I single out France as one of the markets involved is that it is DL's main gateway for connections into Europe, so this impacts people flying not only to France itself, but to anywhere that they fly to that they have to connect in Paris.

If you have DL Skymiles (or as some would say, SkyPiles), my suggestion is ''burn, baby, burn''

My concern is not only the SkyMiles I have left over from my years as a DL gold medallion, but also the fact that they are in merger talks with NW where I now have my elite status and my biggest milage account.  I don't want my Worldperks miles turning into SkyPiles.


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## roadsister (Feb 1, 2008)

I thought there was talk of a merger with United?


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## Dave M (Feb 1, 2008)

There is "talk". That's about it. The betting by analysts is that if there is a merger soon, it will be with NW.


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## x3 skier (Feb 1, 2008)

All of this devaluation of various FF programs makes me sad but I have had a good run since they started many moons ago. One thing I am glad of is not transferring all my AMEX rewards points into a FF program. At least I can still get some value there.

Cheers


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## John Cummings (Feb 2, 2008)

Southwest has been the best by far for us.


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## Carolinian (Feb 2, 2008)

John Cummings said:


> Southwest has been the best by far for us.



Sorta useless for going to Europe and the Caribbean, however.  I keep waiting for them to start an LCC partners program with someone like Icelandair, Zoom, LTU, Globespan, or Condor, and then with Ryanair, EasyJet, Air Berlin Sky Europe, Wizz, or Germanwings, and Air Asia.

SWA also has one of the tightest expiration policies if I remember correctly, which can be a big downside.


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## andrea t (Feb 2, 2008)

I may in the the minority here, but I have had great success with Delta.  I only use  Delta ff miles for business class tickets to Europe.  It is not as easy as it once was, but I have always made it work.  I plan 330 days out, at midnight.  Last year, the tickets I needed were not yet loaded and I called every night for days!  Every phone rep is different and if you are lucky to connect with one willing to take the time to help, they are PRICELESS!  Often I've called back several times to find one that is more accomodating.  The direct routes are never available anymore, but I now build stop overs into my itineraries and that has worked well.  It has become a real "job" to make it work but in my opinion, well worth it.  I would never pay cash for 3 business class tickets to Europe but I sure love flying that way!  So it seems, nothing in life is free, but this system is as good as it gets for me!


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## Carolinian (Feb 2, 2008)

andrea t said:


> I may in the the minority here, but I have had great success with Delta.  I only use  Delta ff miles for business class tickets to Europe.  It is not as easy as it once was, but I have always made it work.  I plan 330 days out, at midnight.  Last year, the tickets I needed were not yet loaded and I called every night for days!  Every phone rep is different and if you are lucky to connect with one willing to take the time to help, they are PRICELESS!  Often I've called back several times to find one that is more accomodating.  The direct routes are never available anymore, but I now build stop overs into my itineraries and that has worked well.  It has become a real "job" to make it work but in my opinion, well worth it.  I would never pay cash for 3 business class tickets to Europe but I sure love flying that way!  So it seems, nothing in life is free, but this system is as good as it gets for me!



Just remember once they extend their implementation of the new ''Delta Supplement'' those award tickets to Europe on Delta are going to cost you $200 more than you now pay on ''taxes and fees'' each, and who knows, maybe even more than that for business class.

I still have 130K Skymiles left from my days as a DL gold medallion that I am trying to find a way to burn without incurred such fees.

DL has usually been okay for me in finding tickets.  It is just these new fees that are a killer.  And as RealDLInsider explained on Flyertalk, they are now loading those ff seats at unpredicatable intervals, which means you have to keep calling back and makes the system a real crap shoot to use, instead of the call at 331 days like it used to be.


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## Paxdiver (Feb 2, 2008)

*FF Airmiles*



kamumma1 said:


> Anyone have any opinions as to what airlines have the best FF miles programs?  I.e. which airlines are most apt to grant your FF miles request.



I have not seen anyone talk about one of my favorites- Alaska. Although it does have some limitations on locations you can get a anywhere domestic for 20,000 am and each year you get a companion ticket for $50.00. No problems getting seats as well....


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## Carolinian (Feb 2, 2008)

Paxdiver said:


> I have not seen anyone talk about one of my favorites- Alaska. Although it does have some limitations on locations you can get a anywhere domestic for 20,000 am and each year you get a companion ticket for $50.00. No problems getting seats as well....



Some of their partner deals are not very good, such as 40K miles on many of them to get to the Caribbean when other programs are 30K or 35K, and 65K to get to Europe on some partners, compared to the usual 50K.  Also, they don't give miles on consolidator tickets, when most airlines do.


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## Jimster (Feb 2, 2008)

*The answer*

WELL!  THAT SETTLES IT THEN! 

The answer is Northwest united american southwest delta alaska continental frontier US air Airlines!


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## John Cummings (Feb 3, 2008)

Carolinian said:


> Sorta useless for going to Europe and the Caribbean, however.  I keep waiting for them to start an LCC partners program with someone like Icelandair, Zoom, LTU, Globespan, or Condor, and then with Ryanair, EasyJet, Air Berlin Sky Europe, Wizz, or Germanwings, and Air Asia.
> 
> SWA also has one of the tightest expiration policies if I remember correctly, which can be a big downside.



The OP never mentioned Europe in their post. We have absolutely no interest in going to Europe so Southwest is still the best for us. However, I don't choose which airline to fly based on rewards. We belong to several different airline rewards programs. I choose the airline based more on scheduling than anything else. Alaska Airline is my favorite carrier but they don't go everywhere that we fly to. If they are a choice then I definitely will choose Alaska assuming their schedule suits us.


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## John Cummings (Feb 3, 2008)

Paxdiver said:


> I have not seen anyone talk about one of my favorites- Alaska. Although it does have some limitations on locations you can get a anywhere domestic for 20,000 am and each year you get a companion ticket for $50.00. No problems getting seats as well....



Alaska is our favorite airline also. Alaska has the best option for upgrading to first class. We have used the first class upgrade several times. I purchased our tickets from Alaska for our trip to Cancun in April. Fortunately, I purchased the tickets a few months ago as the fares have since risen. I purchased first class tickets from LAX to Cancun.


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## jrdc (Feb 3, 2008)

Carolinian said:


> SWA also has one of the tightest expiration policies if I remember correctly, which can be a big downside.



I'd say their expiration policies fall somewhere in the middle these days.  IIRC, it used to be 12 months some time ago, but is now 24 months before credits begin expiring although there is no way of extending those credits before they expire.  If that's your definition of a tight expiration policy, that may be fair, but in terms of actual time to expiration before extension possibilities, it's between UA, AA & US Air at 18 mos., DL at 24 mos. and NW at 36 mos.

Keep in mind that Southwest FF is geared more towards short hops & the frequent business traveler, though, & while their credits may expire quickly with no opportunity of extension, you can't get a free roundtrip (transcontinental US or shorter) on any other airline for 8 roundtrips to a destination that earns you the minimum 500 miles each way (8,000 miles).  Bump that up to 1000 miles each way & that's still only 16,000 miles for an award.

I agree completely with Jimster...without more details & considering each individual's situation, this is a tough question to answer.


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## Carolinian (Feb 3, 2008)

jrdc said:


> I'd say their expiration policies fall somewhere in the middle these days.  IIRC, it used to be 12 months some time ago, but is now 24 months before credits begin expiring although there is no way of extending those credits before they expire.  If that's your definition of a tight expiration policy, that may be fair, but in terms of actual time to expiration before extension possibilities, it's between UA, AA & US Air at 18 mos., DL at 24 mos. and NW at 36 mos.



The expiration with no way to extend is the main factor that makes them tighter than anyone else.  With AA, do a survey on Opinion Place, which doesn't cost anything, once every 18 months and your miles can last forever.


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## John Cummings (Feb 3, 2008)

jrdc said:


> I'd say their expiration policies fall somewhere in the middle these days.  IIRC, it used to be 12 months some time ago, but is now 24 months before credits begin expiring although there is no way of extending those credits before they expire.  If that's your definition of a tight expiration policy, that may be fair, but in terms of actual time to expiration before extension possibilities, it's between UA, AA & US Air at 18 mos., DL at 24 mos. and NW at 36 mos.
> 
> Keep in mind that Southwest FF is geared more towards short hops & the frequent business traveler, though, & while their credits may expire quickly with no opportunity of extension, you can't get a free roundtrip (transcontinental US or shorter) on any other airline for 8 roundtrips to a destination that earns you the minimum 500 miles each way (8,000 miles).  Bump that up to 1000 miles each way & that's still only 16,000 miles for an award.
> 
> I agree completely with Jimster...without more details & considering each individual's situation, this is a tough question to answer.



Southwest changed their expiration from 12 months to 24 months now. They did that some time ago.


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## Carolinian (Feb 3, 2008)

John Cummings said:


> Southwest changed their expiration from 12 months to 24 months now. They did that some time ago.



But they are the ONLY US airline that does not allow you to extend the expiration with some later activity.  That they haven't changed.  When it expires, it expires.


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