# Portfolio Program: Am I Missing Something



## MICROZE (Nov 12, 2021)

Usually while searching HRC-Online I see availability for 2BR 7-Nights ranging from 1300 -> 2950 Points depending on Season and Resort.

However, I see as low as 200-Points for a 2BR/7-Nights at HRC, Grand Aspen.

Being a new Hyatt owner, I am still finding my way around the system.
What is the difference between *"Portfolio Program"* Points and *"HRC"* Points?


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## eddeeeee (Nov 12, 2021)

Probably not a points vs weeks issue.  Early May is 'mud season' in Aspen.  Ski area closed.  Much of the snow is still there on the hills and trails, but is mushy with rocks and mud in many spots.  Too soft and too many rocks for cross country skiing. Too deep and muddy for hiking or biking.  No leaves on the trees yet.  Still below freezing at night.  Many of the summer activities/festivals have not started up.  Basically a very nice place to stay with nothing to do.  There are some hard core adventure types out there, but they are often not looking for High end places to stay while adventuring. If you want to take your chances, it could be blue sky sunny and 65-70 degrees if we have a dry winter and an early spring.  Of course there could still be tons of snow and you could get socked in with a spring snow as well.  We stayed there once for 50 points/night and it is an amazing location and property around Memorial Day a couple years back.  We had two amazing days and one snowy day.  Totally worth it as we had 200 points we would have lost if we didn't burn them somewhere.  I am relatively new to the system too, so I could be off on this. Maybe it also has something to do with the struggles between the owners and Hyatt over the past few years that recently resulted in Hyatt getting kicked out of its management role there.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 12, 2021)

Since you own Vistana and Marriott, perhaps drawing a comparison will help. My understanding is the "Portfolio Program" is much like the Marriott DC Trust or Westin/Sheraton Flex. Pure point trusts where they sell points and the inventory is bookable by point owners only (with exceptions). HRC is the points overlay system that allows Hyatt week owners to trade their weeks inside an internal exchange system, like StarOptions or elected DC points.

The only difference that I have seen reported is that the inventory in the Portfolio Program is never shared out to owners using HRC points. This is different in Marriott and Vistana where that inventory becomes available to weeks owners at some point in time.


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## echino (Nov 12, 2021)

At Grand Aspen, weeks 18-20, 43-47 are "mountain season" weeks. 200 points for a week in 2br, regardless of Portfolio or HRC.


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## MICROZE (Nov 12, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Since you own Vistana and Marriott, perhaps drawing a comparison will help. My understanding is the "Portfolio Program" is much like the Marriott DC Trust or Westin/Sheraton Flex. Pure point trusts where they sell points and the inventory is bookable by point owners only (with exceptions). HRC is the points overlay system that allows Hyatt week owners to trade their weeks inside an internal exchange system, like StarOptions or elected DC points.
> 
> The only difference that I have seen reported is that the inventory in the Portfolio Program is never shared out to owners using HRC points. This is different in Marriott and Vistana where that inventory becomes available to weeks owners at some point in time.


Thank you for the comparison. 

That helps a little.


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## dsmrp (Nov 12, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The only difference that I have seen reported is that the inventory in the Portfolio Program is never shared out to owners using HRC points. This is different in Marriott and Vistana where that inventory becomes available to weeks owners at some point in time.



I hadn't noticed in the past, but just now doing a search for a resort in April, see both Portfolio Program and Residence Club units come up in my search. I have only HRC points.  I recall in other threads someone saying that Portfolio units will show up for HRC members within 6 months of check-in date.  This is another reason why there is little value to Portfolio program.  6 months prior to check-in is the deadline when all home resort points become club points.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 12, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> I hadn't noticed in the past, but just now doing a search for a resort in April, see both Portfolio Program and Residence Club units come up in my search. I have only HRC points.  I recall in other threads someone saying that Portfolio units will show up for HRC members within 6 months of check-in date.  This is another reason why there is little value to Portfolio program.  6 months prior to check-in is the deadline when all home resort points become club points.


Why would this be a bad thing? No different than a program like Vistana where all available units show up for booking 8 months ahead of checkin. Do we know for sure that the Portfolio Program units are bookable by HRC owners using their points at the eight month mark?


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## dsmrp (Nov 12, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Why would this be a bad thing? No different than a program like Vistana where all available units show up for booking 8 months ahead of checkin. Do we know for sure that the Portfolio Program units are bookable by HRC owners using their points at the eight month mark?


It's a good that HRC can book PP at 6 months.  It's just of little value IMO, to be in PP program, when you can access their available units at 6 months.

I just tried to test book a Portfolio unit, the reservation details window is the same as when I do a HRC reservation.  This was as far as I went; I didn't try to complete the ressies. The only difference I noticed was a small notice of an additional $60 housekeeping fee for Portfolio reservations, hmm... When I tried to book the same dates & size of an HRC unit, there was no housekeeping fee.  So I'll stick with the HRC units, unless only the Portfolio units are available for the dates & resort I want.  The reservation fee of $41, was the same for both types.


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## mjm1 (Nov 13, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> It's a good that HRC can book PP at 6 months.  It's just of little value IMO, to be in PP program, when you can access their available units at 6 months.
> 
> I just tried to test book a Portfolio unit, the reservation details window is the same as when I do a HRC reservation.  This was as far as I went; I didn't try to complete the ressies. The only difference I noticed was a small notice of an additional $60 housekeeping fee for Portfolio reservations, hmm... When I tried to book the same dates & size of an HRC unit, there was no housekeeping fee.  So I'll stick with the HRC units, unless only the Portfolio units are available for the dates & resort I want.  The reservation fee of $41, was the same for both types.



That was my experience as well. I recently reserved a PP reservation using HRC points. The reservation fee was normal and it noted that I will have to pay the housekeeping fee at the resort. I would have preferred a HRC reservation, but the PP was the only thing available.

Best regards.

Mike


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## mjm1 (Nov 16, 2021)

We attended a sales presentation today and they tried to get us to switch from our owned week to the portfolio program. Of course we didn’t bite, but I do have a question that I didn’t ask them.

The sales person made it sound like if we switched to PP we could still use our unit the same as we do now Or we could use the PP. I thought it was one way or the other (ie we give up our deeded week to be in the PP.) What is correct?

Best regards.

Mike


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## Sapper (Nov 20, 2021)

mjm1 said:


> We attended a sales presentation today and they tried to get us to switch from our owned week to the portfolio program. Of course we didn’t bite, but I do have a question that I didn’t ask them.
> 
> The sales person made it sound like if we switched to PP we could still use our unit the same as we do now Or we could use the PP. I thought it was one way or the other (ie we give up our deeded week to be in the PP.) What is correct?
> 
> ...


My understanding, and it may be incorrect, is that if you do not trade your deed in, then you can still use it like you have in the past. If you would like to exchange your deeded week in to PPP for that year, then it needs to be done very far in advance of the actual use week.  However, you do not HAVE to give up your deeded week if you don’t want to.


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## dsmrp (Nov 27, 2021)

mjm1 said:


> We attended a sales presentation today and they tried to get us to switch from our owned week to the portfolio program. Of course we didn’t bite, but I do have a question that I didn’t ask them.
> 
> The sales person made it sound like if we switched to PP we could still use our unit the same as we do now Or we could use the PP. I thought it was one way or the other (ie we give up our deeded week to be in the PP.) What is correct?
> 
> ...





Sapper said:


> My understanding, and it may be incorrect, is that if you do not trade your deed in, then you can still use it like you have in the past. If you would like to exchange your deeded week in to PPP for that year, then it needs to be done very far in advance of the actual use week.  However, you do not HAVE to give up your deeded week if you don’t want to.



As a sales manager explained to me,  a legacy HRC week would need to be optionally converted to Portfolio points by week 12 of each year. You do not trade in your deed.  However if you have say a 2 bdrm lockoff, you can't reserve the 1 bdrm part of it as we do now, and convert only the studio unit to portfolio points.  The whole lockoff would need to be converted to portfolio. And then you'd need to turn around and reserve your home week with portfolio points.  But there is no guarantee to get your home unit, unless you pay a 75 pt 'fee' to request-specify a unit number.


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## alameda94501 (Nov 28, 2021)

Yes, Portfolio is the equivalent of someone coming in and buying a ton of HRC legacy weeks, reselling these as "Portfolio Points" (which happen to be equivalent to our legacy HRC points at 1:1), and then creating their own internal rules and fees on how to divvy up the weeks or points.  That's how they can give their own members extended reservation leadtimes, loan points, and other benefits - but it doesn't affect the legacy HRC weeks / deeds. The Portfolio fees are generally higher as perhaps they have to cover the legacy HRC fees.  

Also, Portfolio members can reserve legacy HRC with the leadtimes just like ours because they have that ton of HRC legacy weeks to trade behind them.  

The one feature they have beyond this is that you as a hybrid HRC member can annually decide whether you want to swap your legacy HRC week into the Portfolio pool for that year *plus *pay an annual conversion fee, in exchange for some Portfolio points.  You can opt in or out each year, and each year they can collect that annual conversion fee.




dsmrp said:


> As a sales manager explained to me,  a legacy HRC week would need to be optionally converted to Portfolio points by week 12 of each year. You do not trade in your deed.  However if you have say a 2 bdrm lockoff, you can't reserve the 1 bdrm part of it as we do now, and convert only the studio unit to portfolio points.  The whole lockoff would need to be converted to portfolio. And then you'd need to turn around and reserve your home week with portfolio points.  But there is no guarantee to get your home unit, unless you pay a 75 pt 'fee' to request-specify a unit number.


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## Kal (Nov 28, 2021)

alameda94501 said:


> ...Also, Portfolio members can reserve legacy HRC with the leadtimes just like ours because they have that ton of HRC legacy weeks to trade behind them. ..


The term "ton of HRC legacy weeks"  sounds like something the Hyatt huckster claimed.  You would need to think thru the actual QUALITY of those weeks and the resorts where they are located.  Remember the Portfolio stocked their inventory with legacy weeks that could not be sold.  Also don't forget the $13K fee to join the HPP is dead money which can never be reclaimed.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 28, 2021)

alameda94501 said:


> Yes, Portfolio is the equivalent of someone coming in and buying a ton of HRC legacy weeks, reselling these as "Portfolio Points" (which happen to be equivalent to our legacy HRC points at 1:1), and then creating their own internal rules and fees on how to divvy up the weeks or points.  That's how they can give their own members extended reservation leadtimes, loan points, and other benefits - but it doesn't affect the legacy HRC weeks / deeds. The Portfolio fees are generally higher as perhaps they have to cover the legacy HRC fees.
> 
> Also, Portfolio members can reserve legacy HRC with the leadtimes just like ours because they have that ton of HRC legacy weeks to trade behind them.
> 
> The one feature they have beyond this is that you as a hybrid HRC member can annually decide whether you want to swap your legacy HRC week into the Portfolio pool for that year *plus *pay an annual conversion fee, in exchange for some Portfolio points.  You can opt in or out each year, and each year they can collect that annual conversion fee.


The program is really no different than the different trusts many timeshare companies have setup. Marriott Destinations, Sheraton Flex, Westin Flex, Club Wyndham Access; they all have these trusts. The problem with many is high fees. The high fees are mainly because of two factors. The first being that the loaded them up initially with low season weeks that have the same maintenance fees as high season weeks. Those low season weeks are allocated fewer weeks. The second one is that there are additional administrative costs on top of the trust. There is a board of directors, there is someone there to administer the trust. Deeds assigned to the trust need to be recorded and the trust has to pay those recording fees. I am also not sure if there is a separate 10% management fee on the fees paid by owners to those trusts.

HPP works much more like Sheraton and Westin Flex in that there is no way for legacy owners to "enroll". This is because there is no need to enroll. All these systems were already point based. Who is going to pony up $1000 to enroll in something they are already doing? This is different from Marriott in that they never had a point based system. So enrollment was a great option to allow owners to now book internally within Marriott and no need to go through II. They could, theoretically, book different size rooms and guaranty their view.

The only major timeshare company that is a trust hold out is Hilton Grand Vacations. They have the same issue as Hyatt. They already have a point overlay system that owners can use for no additional enrollment fee. I am still not sure why they haven't gone the trust based route. It simplifies the sales process as you are selling a whole system and not having to sell out at many different resorts. It also allows them to bundle a whole bunch of weeks that they may never be able to sell into the trust and then unload those as points that can be used "anywhere".


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## dayooper (Nov 28, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The only major timeshare company that is a trust hold out is Hilton Grand Vacations. They have the same issue as Hyatt. They already have a point overlay system that owners can use for no additional enrollment fee. I am still not sure why they haven't gone the trust based route. It simplifies the sales process as you are selling a whole system and not having to sell out at many different resorts. It also allows them to bundle a whole bunch of weeks that they may never be able to sell into the trust and then unload those as points that can be used "anywhere".



It all comes down to what they sell. When it first came out, they were selling The Quin or Central on 5th (I can’t remember witch one) platinum penthouse suites for $499,000. That’s $19,000,000 per room right there (38 weeks). They also have their properties in Hawaii that sell for a huge amount (over $200,000) for the 3 bedroom penthouse suites and their cliente is reportedly very suspicious of the trust product. While they push the ability to use their points at any resort, the hard to book deeds are sold as an easier way to book those rooms. NYC, Oahu, Hilton Head, ski weeks in Valdoro and resorts like The Crane are all high priced weeks that are bought to assure the best booking advantage. HGVC does sell those low quality weeks, most resorts only have 2 seasons and by selling those, they encourage the customer to keep coming back. The trade in method of selling the lousy weeks and encouraging upgrading keeps the constant roll of money coming through.

With the purchase of DRI, HGVC has 2 ways of selling. The existing trust program with the new membership that links the 2 is the best of both worlds. They can sell the HVC (what DRI will be called) trust and then potentially upgrade to the deeded HGVC product.


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