# Marriott vs. Hyatt and others



## wolverines (Jan 16, 2009)

Guys, I'm hoping those of you that have done all the research that I'm now embarking upon can give me your opinions (and I realize they are just that) between Marriott, Hyatt, Starwood, etc. For those that chose Marriott over any of the others, why did you? For those that own both or have stayed in both, what comments can you add? I'm looking for opinions on the Marriott timeshares and the system, especially relative to the others.

For some background. I have a family of 5, 3 young kids. My inlaws have some crappy old timeshare in Cancun and that's pretty much what I thought of timeshares. Then we went to Atlantis a few years ago and the kids loved it but man was that room cramped (only had 2 kids then). I listened to the Starwood pitch for Harborside, but didn't bite knowing there had to be a resale market, and that's how I found this forum. Then last year I used some of my uncle's points to stay at the Hyatt Cocunut Plantation. Wow were those rooms nice and now that I've stayed in a 2BR I don't want to go back. That was a very nice resort, but it felt a bit isolated so we didn't buy. I can't picture my family going back to the same place every year let alone every few years (except maybe for skiing). I'd go back to Atlantis at some point and definitely to Disney a few more times until the kids are too old for that.

So I've seen one Starwood and one Hyatt, but I've never seen a Marriott TS. I'm just beginning to read through the FAQ on Marriott so while I do that I'm hoping that some of you can share your experiences and perhaps pass along some advice.

Thanks!


----------



## vacationtime1 (Jan 16, 2009)

Timeshares are a great way to take beach vacations with young kids, for the reasons you describe.  You are fortunate to have figured that our while your kids are young, and you are even more fortunate to have discovered the resale market before purchasing.

Choosing between Marriott, Starwood, and Hyatt is like choosing between Mercedes, BMW, and Cadillac.  There are no wrong choices, only personal preferences (you could add Hilton to that list).

The most important factor is where you want to vacation on an ongoing basis.  Most people on this board will suggest buying only where you want to go at least every second year.  I recommend on site research.  Take your time; it is much easier to buy than to sell.


----------



## WalnutBaron (Jan 16, 2009)

About a year ago, my wife and I were wrestling with the same questions.  By way of background, I will say that--prior to our first timeshare purchase--I was (and remain) a Marriott Gold Card member and have nearly 800,000 points in my account, thanks to many years of business travel with Marriott.

Here are the considerations we had on this topic, and our conclusion:

* Of the major hotel chains which also operate timeshares (Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, and Hilton), Marriott has by far the largest network of TS properties.  The properties are well-managed, clean, and offer plenty of luxury for a quality family vacation.  Resale value is among the best in the industry, though I will also say that--if this is a primary consideration for you in choosing the right timeshare purchase, then consider not purchasing timeshares, as this is NOT an investment for which you can expect to achieve a positive return.  Maintenance fees are, for the most part, pretty reasonable--and are lower than those for Hyatt and Starwood.  Marriott trades internally on a weeks basis, so that you must trade your week for a week at another Marriott property if you want to trade internally.  Overall, Marriott is a solid choice. 

* Hilton is the second-largest hotel-based TS system.  It operates on a points basis only.  In fact, when you buy into the Hilton Grand Vacations Club, you're buying points--not a particular location.  These points are fully transferable within the HGVC system for any of their locations.  Hilton's quality is also very good.  While this is strictly my own opinion, I would rank the quality of the properties among the four hotel-based chains as follows: 1) Starwood; 2) Hyatt; 3) Marriott; 4) Hilton.  That said, the fall-off from 1-4 is not significant.  I would be quite happy with any of these four chains.  Hilton's MF's are comparable to Marriott.  Hilton also has good comparative resale value.

* Starwood has the third-largest number of properties within their timeshare portfolio.  Of all the hotel-based timeshare networks, Starwood's properties offer the most consistently high level of luxury and appointments IMHO.  This is not to demean the other chains at all.  Almost by definition, when you purchase in any of these networks you are buying a vacation experience which is among the finest available anywhere.  But for overall luxury, I put Starwood at the top of the heap.  One other advantage that Starwood has its uniquely flexible points or weeks program.  In the Starwood system, you purchase a home resort week which equates to a certain number of StarOptions.  These StarOptions are available for internal exchange--either on a week or daily basis.  This means you aren't restricted to exchange for one full week at one resort.  For example, you could conceivably trade your week at Westin Kierland Villas for three days at Westin Kaanapali and four days at Westin Princeville, for example.  One big negative of Starwood is that the MF's tend to be among the highest in the industry.  While that is true, I can also say that the high MF's do buy you a truly high-end location that is exceptionally well-maintained with highly-trained personnel and luxury service.  

*Hyatt is the smallest of the four major chains.  That said, the properties are of exceptional quality in very desirable locations.  One interesting thing about Hyatt is that they have properties with little direct competition, including Carmel, CA; Lake Tahoe, CA; Sedona, AZ; and Key West, FL.  Hyatt's structure is similar to Starwood in that you purchase a home resort, but your week carries with a prescribed number of points which are tradeable within the Hyatt system.  It is very flexible.  Hyatt's MF's are higher than Marriott or Hilton, and roughly equivalent to Starwood.

So, with all of this information, where did we choose to purchase?  We went with Starwood.  While we recognized that the MF's were high, we also decided to purchase at a place we love and visit often--Kauai.  The only other major chain with properties on Kauai is Marriott, but we particularly love Princeville and the North Shore.  So location was a key consideration.  A second consideration was that we wanted to pamper ourselves when we go on vacation, and Starwood--to us at least--offers the ultimate pampering experience.  Finally, we really liked the flexibility.  The other properties within the Starwood network are in desirable locations for us, including properties in California where we live so that we can take some vacations at Starwood resorts within driving distance of our home.

I hope this helps.  Please recognize that much of what I've offered here is strictly my own opinion and I am sure many other TUGgers would disagree with some of what I've said.  I wish you the best in making the right choice for you and your family.


----------



## sdtugger (Jan 16, 2009)

WalnutBaron said:


> About a year ago, my wife and I were wrestling with the same questions.  By way of background, I will say that--prior to our first timeshare purchase--I was (and remain) a Marriott Gold Card member and have nearly 800,000 points in my account, thanks to many years of business travel with Marriott.
> 
> Here are the considerations we had on this topic, and our conclusion:
> 
> ...



I think it comes down to location.  I have almost the exact opposite profile compared to you.  I am a starwood hotel person with hundreds of thousands of starwood points and a history of platinum or gold SPG status for years.  But, when it came down to choosing a timeshare we went with Marriott because we preferred their location on Maui and we slightly preferred the property and details (such as 3 bathrooms) over the Starwood options on Maui.  We ended up with more Marriott timeshares as we figured out 13 month reservations and trading options.  We are very happy.  But, I really think this comes down to where you want to stay more than the program.


----------



## alwysonvac (Jan 16, 2009)

You might find this old thread helpful - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34031


----------



## m61376 (Jan 16, 2009)

As posted above, determining where you'd like to visit should be a major factor in choosing which system would work best for you and your family. Personally, the fact that Marriott has the largest network of any of the hotel chain affiliated systems was a big factor in our decision. Besides the current resorts, there are several others in the planning stages, although future construction has been put on hold until the economy turns around (except for Cancun, which will begin selling later this year).

Keep in mind that, although you can trade outside your system in II or RCI, if you are an owner you get preference. For example, if you are a Marriott owner and are trading your Marriott for another Marriott in II, there is a 24 day window during which only Marriott owners can make the exchange (this preference is shortened to as little as 3 days during Flexchange). Starwood similarly has a 3 day window in II.

Another factor is the trading company used. While others will disagree, I think II consistently has more high end resorts than RCI, so I preferred something in the II system. Marriott and Starwood both trade through II.

Not to plug Tug, but I would recommend you join for $15, which will enable you to access the resort reviews to start to get a feel of the different places in each system. Where you live and how/where you like to vacation are all considerations. 

BTW- my opinion of timesharing was similar to yours, although I had never experienced it until a few years ago when we happened to win a week at a fundraising auction at our daughter's law school. It happened to be at Ko'Olina, so needless to say it left a very positive impression. I only wish we had bought when our kids were young like yours. Take your time to figure out what will work best for you and your family. 

If you can afford it, given the current state of the economy it is surely a buyer's market. I know at least Marriott has barely been exercising ROFR, so that when savvy buyers find a very anxious seller and can negotiate a great price, they have been able to close on the deal without Marriott buying it out from under them. Although others here will disagree, I think buying resale and foregoing the ability to trade for points is well worth the thousands of dollars you'll be saving.


----------



## ecwinch (Jan 16, 2009)

There are two basics approaches to owning a timeshare - owning to trade, or owning to use. I own timeshares to trade, as I want to go somewhere different each vacation.

From that perspective Hyatt is more difficult to exchange into. This is of course a direct impact of the size of their network.

Respectively you see a lot more inventory for exchange with Marriott and Starwood (excluding the Westin locations).

So if you really have your heart set on going to the Hyatt properties regularly, then you really want to give them a good look. 

The safer choice is Marriott. I have stayed at about 15 of the Marriott properties and all have been great. I have never had a bad Marriott exchange.


----------



## bdh (Jan 17, 2009)

WalnutBaron did a great job of capturing the overall perspective of Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, and Hilton. There is no doubt in my mind that these brands are at the upper level of the TS food chain. Since we are talking about the top tier of the TS world, it would be hard to say that buying brand "X" is a mistake.  They all have their pros and cons and its impossible to say that one brand is superior to another in all aspects. So it would be interesting to see what the owners of the different brands view as the "best" and "worst" aspects of their brand. 

As a Hyatt owner I'll say:

Best features: 

The guaranteed home resort week and specific unit every year. An owner has this guarantee up until 6 months prior to the deeded week. If an owner has not confirmed the reservation by the 6 month expiration date, the week opens up to other HVC members. (Disclaimer: we have "Keys Disease" and must return to Key West every year - so having the guaranteed week/unit feature is the reason why we purchased a specific week and unit in KW). 

The reservation system for internal exchanges is simple.  Its points based and is first come, first serve and allows split week reservations. If you have the points, your request gets filled when a unit becomes available. (Disclaimer: we have multiple HVC weeks that allow us to co-mingle points and are able to exchange into any HVC property since we plan ahead).​
Worst feature:

Number of locations, with 15 properties in 12 locations the selection is not as varied as some of the other brands. The addition of 3 new locations in the next year or two will improve this, but it doesn't compare with the 50 plus that Marriott has.​We have considered adding another brand to broaden our horizon from time to time, but haven't since using the HCV product has kept us occupied for the past 8 or 9 years and having a few questions about the other brands.

For the SVO owners: Am I correct in thinking that to have access to all of the Starwood TS properties that my resale purchase would have to be at one of the "mandatory" properties? Does Starwood allow co-mingling of points?

For the MVC owners: I see frequent posts about owner irritation with the reservation system. IE: having to call at 8:00 am (which is 5:00 am in CA) on a specific day and the topic of different resorts having different trading power. How big an issue is the reservation system? Since Marriott is not a point based system, is there any way to combine two undesirable weeks to trade for one prime week?


----------



## m61376 (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> For the MVC owners: I see frequent posts about owner irritation with the reservation system. IE: having to call at 8:00 am (which is 5:00 am in CA) on a specific day and the topic of different resorts having different trading power. How big an issue is the reservation system? Since Marriott is not a point based system, is there any way to combine two undesirable weeks to trade for one prime week?


I think it depends largely on the resort. There are owners who have been very frustrated trying week after week at 9AM EST the first day reservations open and have failed to get what they want. There are a few resorts where Platinum season esp. is too long, with most Plat. owners wanting 6-8 weeks in July/Aug., which does create a problem. 

However, I think for the most part it works well. I know I own Aruba Plat. and today I can still book any of the arrival dates for weeks 1-3, which are the only 2010 weeks available to date. When I needed to change a reservation a few months before arrival there was still a selection of good dates left and was able to get my first choice. So it is not universally a big problem.

On the flip side, I like the flexibility and not having to go the same week every year and still be able to make my plans in advance. Life needs change as families grow and other things come up (weddings and other events). Hey, we almost needed to change our upcoming week at the 2 month mark because of a possible conflict (which luckily turned out to be the next week) and Marriott would have accommodated us with another week in our season. For us, flexibility is far better than owning a fixed week.

Presently, the only way to trade a really low trader for a prime week is in II during Flexchange (although sometimes people luck out further out as well). You can't combine 2 lousy weeks to get one great week. Marriott is a week for week system, which frankly I like. Interestingly, it is likely that Marriott will go to a points based system when they develop their own internal trading system, at least from what Tuggers here have surmised by the survey that several received a few months back. One of the things that many didn't like about the possible new system is just what you are asking- the ability to combine 2 lousy weeks to get a prime week. The flip side to that situation is that as more resorts get added on and the system grows, what was once bought as a prime week can no longer trade for a newer prime week, since the newer (and more expensive) resorts over time tend to get allocated more points and have higher values. I have noted some complaints from Starwood owners over time about this very issue.

I like the fact that a Platinum week stands a good chance of trading into another prime week, not suddenly being worth 4 or 5 days elsewhere or requiring 2 weeks for a single week elsewhere. But that's me- others feel differently.

I also really like the fact that if I decide to trade my Platinum week for another location outside of my system's internal trading (although Marriott doesn't specifically have an internal trading just a preference period in II), I can reserve and deposit the high value week I paid for in order to maximize my trade power when searching for another location. In contrast, for example, Starwood can select some lowly week and that becomes your trader in II, so that you may be searching with an off season week at a less desirable location when you own a prime holiday or peak season week at a prime resort. Although I like being able to retain my trade power, admittedly the flip side to that is that owners hog prime weeks for trading (although all owners have an equal chance and right to reserve them, which is fair since we paid for them regardless of how we are going to use them), so actually booking a holiday week may be difficult because other owners are booking them to trade or to rent.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jan 17, 2009)

How about this one
A combo deal:
Hyatt and HGVC or Hyatt and Marriott
Ultimate flexibility and great vacationing experience
The Charm and Class of Hyatt (hyatt is a must)
New HGVC state of the art system and new resorts
or Marriott -lots of quality resorts- in lots of places.
unfortunately, I did have issues with their dated reservation system.
with starwood you will run into the mandatory resort issue.


----------



## Troopers (Jan 17, 2009)

wolverines said:


> I can't picture my family going back to the same place every year let alone every few years (except maybe for skiing).



Based on the above statement, I suggest you do NOT buy a timeshare.  You'll be better off renting from owners.


----------



## bdh (Jan 17, 2009)

m61376 said:


> I own Aruba Plat. and today I can still book any of the arrival dates for weeks 1-3, which are the only 2010 weeks available to date.



When you say you can book weeks 1-3, do you mean at Aruba or MVC in general? If you own at Aruba, does that provide you reservation priority at Aruba over non-Aruba MVC owners?  Do you own more than one week and have the 1 month reservation advantage over single week owners?



m61376 said:


> I like the flexibility and not having to go the same week every year and still be able to make my plans in advance. For us, flexibility is far better than owning a fixed week.



No doubt that one of the basic TS concepts is flexibility.  Because of that, our yearly visit to KW seems to go in the opposite direction of the TS concept, however our trip is for a specific event and having the accommodations secured is a plus.  Note that while our week and specific unit is deeded, we are not fixed or committed to it, we just say we're not using our deeded week and the week gets converted to points and do an exchange within HVC or go externally to II. 




m61376 said:


> Presently, the only way to trade a really low trader for a prime week is in II during Flexchange (although sometimes people luck out further out as well). You can't combine 2 lousy weeks to get one great week. Marriott is a week for week system, which frankly I like. Interestingly, it is likely that Marriott will go to a points based system when they develop their own internal trading system, at least from what Tuggers here have surmised by the survey that several received a few months back. One of the things that many didn't like about the possible new system is just what you are asking- the ability to combine 2 lousy weeks to get a prime week. The flip side to that situation is that as more resorts get added on and the system grows, what was once bought as a prime week can no longer trade for a newer prime week, since the newer (and more expensive) resorts over time tend to get allocated more points and have higher values. I have noted some complaints from Starwood owners over time about this very issue.
> I like the fact that a Platinum week stands a good chance of trading into another prime week, not suddenly being worth 4 or 5 days elsewhere or requiring 2 weeks for a single week elsewhere. But that's me- others feel differently.



I've read a few of the posts on the possible MVC conversion to points.  Obviously a lot of speculation as no solid plan or facts have come out - depending on how the point program is structured, it could be really good or really bad.  I also seen some of the Starwood comments on the point values and can understand their frustration with an old prime week/property not equaling a newer prime week.  That situation does not exist in the HVC system as the point value of a 2 bedroom prime week is the same amount at all properties regardless of age or amenities.  Since the point values for like units and like seasons is the same, its extremely fair as you receive exactly what you put in.  The ability to co-mingle points ("combine 2 lousy weeks to get one great week") is a positive as it provides an owner more flexibility since they have the option on how to use their points.  If a person wants to combine their two so so weeks (and two main. fees) to get one fantastic week, that's their choice as its their points.  Note that the converse is true - if a prime week owner wants to exchange to a non-prime time, they receive more than one week as the point value on the week they turned in is higher than on the week they are using (giving them two weeks of time for one main. fee).  This is where the saying "points are points" in the Hyatt world comes from - it doesn't matter what week or property they come from, the points all spend the same.           




m61376 said:


> I also really like the fact that if I decide to trade my Platinum week for another location outside of my system's internal trading, I can reserve and deposit the high value week I paid for in order to maximize my trade power when searching for another location. In contrast, for example, Starwood can select some lowly week and that becomes your trader in II, so that you may be searching with an off season week at a less desirable location when you own a prime holiday or peak season week at a prime resort. Although I like being able to retain my trade power, admittedly the flip side to that is that owners hog prime weeks for trading (although all owners have an equal chance and right to reserve them, which is fair since we paid for them regardless of how we are going to use them), so actually booking a holiday week may be difficult because other owners are booking them to trade or to rent.



Hyatt is somewhat like Starwood in the sense that Hyatt decides what week/property gets deposited to II.  But the Hyatt week does not get deposited to II until the Hyatt owner receives confirmation of their requested exchange - by that point in time, it makes no difference to the Hyatt owner what gets sent to II.


----------



## Troopers (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> For the SVO owners: Am I correct in thinking that to have access to all of the Starwood TS properties that my resale purchase would have to be at one of the "mandatory" properties? Does Starwood allow co-mingling of points?



Just to clarify for the OP, Starwood has an internal trading program (SVN).  In order to participate, one must purchase from Starwood or one of five mandatory resale properties.  If one purchases a non-mandatory (aka voluntary) resale resort, one can still trade into all the Starwood properties but through II or another exchange company.

Starwood does not allow combining of StarOptions, which is the currency used for the internal trading system (not to be confused with StarPoints which is the currency for the hotel program).  However, one can combine StarOptions by retro'ing or requal'ing a resale week.  Check out the stickies on the Starwood forum...it's the best on TUG IMHO.



benjaminb13 said:


> with starwood you will run into the mandatory resort issue.



This only applies to the internal trading system.  If and when Marriott have an internal trading program, I'm sure it will have its problems too.


----------



## bdh (Jan 17, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Just to clarify for the OP, Starwood has an internal trading program (SVN).  In order to participate, one must purchase from Starwood or one of five mandatory resale properties.  If one purchases a non-mandatory (aka voluntary) resale resort, one can still trade into all the Starwood properties but through II or another exchange company.



I take it that getting from a voluntary Starwood back to all the Starwood's thru II is not very likely?  



Troopers said:


> Starwood does not allow combining of StarOptions, which is the currency used for the internal trading system (not to be confused with StarPoints which is the currency for the hotel program).  However, one can combine StarOptions by retro'ing or requal'ing a resale week.  Check out the stickies on the Starwood forum...it's the best on TUG IMHO.



You lost me on that - the 1st part said you cant combine StarOptions but then the 2nd part says you can combine - can you explain that one more for me?  I did read thru some of the Starwood stickies - I think you're right, they are the best.


----------



## vacationtime1 (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> I take it that getting from a voluntary Starwood back to all the Starwood's thru II is not very likely?
> 
> You lost me on that - the 1st part said you cant combine StarOptions but then the 2nd part says you can combine - can you explain that one more for me?  I did read thru some of the Starwood stickies - I think you're right, they are the best.



Actually, it's fairly easy to trade one Starwood property into other Starwood properties, except for the most popular resorts during prime seasons (WSJ, Harborside, Hawaii).  There is a three day preference period during which time only Starwood deposits "see" Starwood inventory in II.  It does require practice and patience; using II is both more complicated and random than using StarOptions.

Starwood seems to have recently changed its rules about combining StarOptions; some new posts suggest that the long-standing rule against it has been relaxed.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> I take it that getting from a voluntary Starwood back to all the Starwood's thru II is not very likely?



Actually, it is likely and happens all the time, except for Westin St. John and Harborside.  We see lots of availability for the Hawaii resorts - a huge deposit was sighted just today.  (The Sightings board is just below the Lounge board - you must be a TUG member to access it.)  

The reason why exchanging through II works so well is that Starwood owners have a 3 day priority for all other Starwood resorts.  So you can use a very inexpensive voluntary resale week and exchange into a much more expensive resort.  Most of the deposits are off-season, however.  For all the details, see the Starwood and II Article, in Owner Resources, at the top of the Starwood Board on TUG.



> You lost me on that - the 1st part said you cant combine StarOptions but then the 2nd part says you can combine - can you explain that one more for me?  I did read thru some of the Starwood stickies - I think you're right, they are the best.



That used to be true, but for the last few months (with no announcement) Starwood has been allowing it.  One of the irritating things about Starwood is that much of their program is not guaranteed by your deed, and they make a  lot of changes without notice.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> When you say you can book weeks 1-3, do you mean at Aruba or MVC in general? If you own at Aruba, does that provide you reservation priority at Aruba over non-Aruba MVC owners?  Do you own more than one week and have the 1 month reservation advantage over single week owners?



In Aruba- with Marriott you can only directly book your home resort. Trades to all other resorts are handled through II. Currently, the only "internal" trading program is handled through II and is really only the 24 day Marriott preference.

And, no, I am a single week Platinum owner (although I'm closing on a Gold week, but since they are different seasons won't be able to take advantage of the 13 month rule).


----------



## FlyerBobcat (Jan 17, 2009)

m61376 said:


> And, no, I am a single week Platinum owner (although I'm closing on a Gold week, but since they are different seasons won't be able to take advantage of the 13 month rule).



_QUESTION: If you select your Gold week and your Platinum such that these weeks are back to back weeks, then you could take advantage of the 13 month rule.  CORRECT?_


----------



## Troopers (Jan 17, 2009)

bdh said:


> You lost me on that - the 1st part said you cant combine StarOptions but then the 2nd part says you can combine - can you explain that one more for me?  I did read thru some of the Starwood stickies - I think you're right, they are the best.



Let me clarify.  For example, let's say you purchase Property #1 directly from Starwood.  Property #1 (regardless if it's mandatory or not) is entitled to StarPoint conversion (hotel) and StarOptions (internal trading).  Than you purchase property #2 resale.  Since it's a resale purchase, it does not entitle you to StarPoint conversion (similar to Marriott) and may entitle you to StarOptions depending on if it's mandatory or not.  If it's mandatory, you are entitled to StarOptions but you can not combine it with StarOptions from Property #1.  If it's voluntary (non-mandatory), no StarOptions.  Than, you purchase Property #3 directly from Starwood.  As part of this purchase, you "requalify" (term used by Starwood TUGgers) Property #2 to have the same entitlements as if was purchased directly from Starwood.  So, at the end of all this, all three properties will be able to convert and combine StarPoints and StarOptions.  There is a dollar requirement to "requalify" a resale week.  Got it?  See the Starwood forum for details, specifically here.  There's a whole strategy to this.

Also, not to confuse you more, Starwood also has a process ("retro'd" term used by Starwood TUGgers) which allows you to upgrade a resale week.  Basically, Starwood gives you credit in the amount of the original purchase price of your unit (paid by the original buyer) towards a purchase directly from Starwood.  There are some rules.  The link above spells it all out.

I believe the opportunity to "requalify" and "retro'd" are unique to Starwood.


----------



## bdh (Jan 18, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Let me clarify.  For example, let's say you purchase Property #1 directly from Starwood.  Property #1 (regardless if it's mandatory or not) is entitled to StarPoint conversion (hotel) and StarOptions (internal trading).  Than you purchase property #2 resale.  Since it's a resale purchase, it does not entitle you to StarPoint conversion (similar to Marriott) and may entitle you to StarOptions depending on if it's mandatory or not.  If it's mandatory, you are entitled to StarOptions but you can not combine it with StarOptions from Property #1.  If it's voluntary (non-mandatory), no StarOptions.  Than, you purchase Property #3 directly from Starwood.  As part of this purchase, you "requalify" (term used by Starwood TUGgers) Property #2 to have the same entitlements as if was purchased directly from Starwood.  So, at the end of all this, all three properties will be able to convert and combine StarPoints and StarOptions.  There is a dollar requirement to "requalify" a resale week.  Got it?  See the Starwood forum for details, specifically here.  There's a whole strategy to this.
> 
> Also, not to confuse you more, Starwood also has a process ("retro'd" term used by Starwood TUGgers) which allows you to upgrade a resale week.  Basically, Starwood gives you credit in the amount of the original purchase price of your unit (paid by the original buyer) towards a purchase directly from Starwood.  There are some rules.  The link above spells it all out.
> 
> I believe the opportunity to "requalify" and "retro'd" are unique to Starwood.



Thanks - now I get it.  The "requalify" and "retro'd" scenarios do not exist in the HVC world and are new to me - but I got it now.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 18, 2009)

flyerbobcat said:


> _QUESTION: If you select your Gold week and your Platinum such that these weeks are back to back weeks, then you could take advantage of the 13 month rule.  CORRECT?_



Yes, but only if I wanted to go the end of April/beginning of May for 2 weeks, using the last week of my Plat. season and the first of my Gold. Since weeks 51 and 52 are Plat. Plus weeks there, it can't be done at the end of Gold/beg. of Plat., although it works that way at other resorts. 

Sorry for any confusion. Since I like to escape the below 20 degree weather we are having now  I like to go in Jan. or Feb. for a week and don't intend to use the weeks consecutively. Booking weeks in Aruba has not been an issue at all; I think Marriott delineated Plat./Gold season well here so there isn't the fierce competition for weeks as the clock strikes 9.


----------



## FlyerBobcat (Jan 18, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Yes, but only if I wanted to go the end of April/beginning of May for 2 weeks....
> Sorry for any confusion.....



Thanks.  No need for a sorry, as I was just asking a question to try to learn more....   Thanks again.


----------



## wolverines (Jan 20, 2009)

Troopers said:


> Based on the above statement, I suggest you do NOT buy a timeshare.  You'll be better off renting from owners.



Troopers, would you mind expanding on this? It seems like a lot of people are constantly trading their TS to go somewhere else.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 21, 2009)

wolverines said:


> Troopers, would you mind expanding on this? It seems like a lot of people are constantly trading their TS to go somewhere else.



Generally people recommend to buy in a place you'll be happy to frequently visit, because then you can be assured of being happy with your purchase. As you've noted, many people regularly trade their timeshares and are very happy with doing so. However, keep in mind that trading is never guaranteed; it is not as easy as making a reservation for your owned week. Flexibility is the key- if you are willing to accept a range of resorts and/or weeks, you'll be more likely to get what you want. Also- being realistic is important; yes, many people luck out and trade up, but if you have an off season week and expect to routinely trade into peak weeks, unless you are making last minute Flexchange trades, you will likely be disappointed.

Renting allows you to have more control over where and when. Given today's economic climate, rentals are much less than they were previously and will likely stay depressed for the next few years, depending on how the economy does. So, Troopers is right in that it is something to be considered. Renting also has the benefit of having no initial outlay and no annual MF obligation.

On the flip side (not to sound discouraging), if you are looking to travel during peak season or to premium properties, unless you catch a last minute rental, advance rentals at premium resorts, while less than renting directly from Marriott, for example, are still considerably higher than your cost if you were an owner. Also, there is the convenience of being able to reserve your week to use rather than looking for a rental and the security of knowing that a trade through II is legitimate and not having to worry about checking things out as you do on private rentals. There is also the intangible factor that if you own it you will use it; once the purchase is made, you don't enter the annual debate of whether or not you want to spend the money on a trip or on something else. Since you've in essence paid for it already, human nature is such that you'll make more of an effort to take the time off from work or simply just not put off making travel plans. So much everyday stuff frequently intervenes that many of us freely admit that ownership gets us to take vacations, plain and simple.

Finally, another consideration on whether to buy or rent- today rentals reflect the economy in general, so they are depressed and there are great buys out there. On the same token, timeshare prices are reflecting economic desperation, so it is a buyer's market. If you can afford to buy, when things turn around in a few years you may be very glad you did (although there is a whole other thread discussing this issue; to summarize- some here believe this is a great time to buy prime Marriott weeks, while others believe the worst is yet to come and prices will continue to plummet. In case you can't tell, I happen to believe now is a great time to buy , but of course that's just my opinion).

Good luck in whatever you decide on. You can't make a bad choice from what you are considering.


----------



## Troopers (Jan 21, 2009)

wolverines said:


> Troopers, would you mind expanding on this? It seems like a lot of people are constantly trading their TS to go somewhere else.



Sure...since you can see yourself going back to the same place every few years, if you were to buy a TS, you'll be either trading it or renting more times than actually staying there.  The primary use of TS ownership is using it (i.e. staying in your resort in your season in your room category).  I believe this is Timesharing 101.  The rules are tailored for this.  Any other use of it (trading, renting, exchanging, etc) is "work" (some call it a hobby).

Re trading, take a look at this forum and the others, and you'll see that there are consistently questions/issues/frustration about how to trade.  Trading does work for some.  Trading certainly provides flexibility but I think people generally have too high expectations.  I find it amusing when a person buys a cheap summer weak in the desert and expects it into trade a prime Hawaii week.  It may happen (especially in this economy) but that's not the norm.  I think people who want to trade should expect something equivalent to what he/she owns.

Why spend the money and have to figure this out every year?  Non-ownership provides the greatest flexibility.

IMHO.


----------



## kjd (Jan 21, 2009)

*Trading can improve your options at lockoff resorts*

I agree with all of the above.  For the newbies, one additional advantage to trading is that it's possible to improve your reservation at your home resort by making a few moves and being flexible. It works at lockoff resorts.

Some Marriott resorts have a lot of availability.  If you are an owner at one of those resorts it's often possible to trade back into your home resort for a larger unit through II.  It is especially true during flextime.  

You have to deposit first with II.   It will cost more because of the II deposit fees but the additional cost might be worth it. Very often you can trade a lockoff studio for a one or two bedroom at your home resort if your vacation time if flexible.  That will leave you with a one bedroom to trade for an additional week somewhere else or to extend your vacation another week at your home resort.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jan 23, 2009)

wolverines said:


> Troopers, would you mind expanding on this? It seems like a lot of people are constantly trading their TS to go somewhere else.


I used to own at Marriott but currently own at HGVC and Hyatt- intra-trading with both HGVC and Hyatt is a breeze and a pleasure because of their flexibility. for example:
I own Hyatt in the Florida Keys, I only travel to florida once in 3 or 4 years- HGVC 1 week, Hyatt the next. Now, since I live in california- I take two 4 day trips to Tahoe and Carmel every year -I can also do 2,3 or 7 days.  No hassle always available. Now, In the past Marriott used to be a little less flexible,  this may have changed,  With Marriott, it important to buy where you vac- 
So my take on it is this:  owning and trading sure beats renting........if you own Hyatt and/or HGVC.
probably not with Marriott.


----------

