# Seville



## Zac495 (May 26, 2008)

I've focused most of my questions on Marbella because that's where we'll be most of our trip.

We leave Marbella Marriott on a Sunday. Our plan is to drive there and stop at Cadiz along the way. Map seems to indicate this makes sense. Thoughts?

We really only have one full day in Seville (staying 2 nights) as Sunday we travel there (we'll have dinner that night in Seville) and tuesday we have to leave for a 3 pm flight.

Questions:
1. What to do in Seville for a day?
2. Where to eat in Seville (we have 2 dinners)?
3. When should we leave in order to make our 3 pm international flight from Malaga?
4. Does the stop in Cadiz make sense?
5. Anything else you want to say. :whoopie: 

THANKS


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## Jimster (May 26, 2008)

My first comment would be why drive?  Although driving in Spain is easier than most European countries, I'd take a train or tour.  I am sure your resort has planned tours for this kind of thing. Depending on the circumstances it may well be cheaper too.  The fixation on driving from point to point is an American thing.  Maybe when gas  hits $10 a gallon we will change and do what the Europeans do-rely on easy, affordable mass transit.  The drive to Seville from Marbella is certainly doable.  I don't know that I'd go over to Cadiz on the way-what's the attraction?  In Seville, you can see a bull fight, visit the tomb of Christopher Columbus, see the royal palace and in general find alot to see.  It is a relatively easy city to navigate.  It is much easier on a bus.  As for traveling to Malaga, I would consider seeing some of the white villages along the way.  The airport there is rather compact (it is right next to the train station which makes train travel easy).  It is rather modern and I would keep with the general rule of 2 to 3 hours in advance for international travel.  Hopefully, you are not flying Iberia.  Others may disagree, but I put Iberia low on my list of international air carriers.


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## Blues (May 26, 2008)

I agree with Jimster about Cadiz.  We had more time, so spent a couple of nights in Sevilla, and later, a night in Cadiz.  Cadiz is a very interesting old city, with lots of waterfront, parks, and history.  We enjoyed staying there and touring the city.  But I'd still take the extra time in Sevilla any day.

In Sevilla, you'll definitely want to see La Giralda, one of the largest cathedrals in Europe.  It's fascinating, and can take a couple of hours to tour.  Also the Alcazar, a palace in the old moorish style.  They're right next to each other, and both in the historic Santa Cruz district of the city.  Mostly, you'll want to just wander through the old Santa Cruz district.  It's wonderful, with narrow cobblestone streets winding past historic places.  It's easy to get lost, but also fun to do so.  You'll find your way back to something familiar in 10 minutes or so, and in the mean time you'll have a great time.

As far as food, there are some great restaurants and some not so great ones.  We had a romantic dinner at La Giraldilla restaurant.  It's a tourist trap, in that they charge an extra 25% to eat outside.  Still, we gladly paid it.  You eat right on the square, right underneath the main tower of La Giralda cathedral.  When lit up at night, it's terribly romantic.  So you'll either love it, being romantics like DW & I; or you'll hate it due to being soaked for an extra 25%.  The food was very good.  Not the best gourmet I've ever had, but good.


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## Zac495 (May 26, 2008)

Jimster said:


> My first comment would be why drive?  Although driving in Spain is easier than most European countries, I'd take a train or tour.  I am sure your resort has planned tours for this kind of thing. Depending on the circumstances it may well be cheaper too.  The fixation on driving from point to point is an American thing.  Maybe when gas  hits $10 a gallon we will change and do what the Europeans do-rely on easy, affordable mass transit.  The drive to Seville from Marbella is certainly doable.  I don't know that I'd go over to Cadiz on the way-what's the attraction?  In Seville, you can see a bull fight, visit the tomb of Christopher Columbus, see the royal palace and in general find alot to see.  It is a relatively easy city to navigate.  It is much easier on a bus.  As for traveling to Malaga, I would consider seeing some of the white villages along the way.  The airport there is rather compact (it is right next to the train station which makes train travel easy).  It is rather modern and I would keep with the general rule of 2 to 3 hours in advance for international travel.  Hopefully, you are not flying Iberia.  Others may disagree, but I put Iberia low on my list of international air carriers.



We have a rental car from the day we land June 29 to the day we return (Lufthansa) July 8. We stay at the Marriott in Marbella June 29 to July 6th. - Should we consider leaving Marbella July 6 (the day we leave the timeshare) and driving the car back to Malega, and then taking a train from there to Seville? Then taking a train back to Seville?

We have a hotel for 2 nights in seville, so we wouldn't take a day trip from there. thank you for the idea!


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## Jimster (May 26, 2008)

*train*

You mean taking a train back to Malaga??  Frankly I would look into that.  In Europe it is generally possible to travel from point A to B without a problem if you just know the transit system.  There are also sites that will route you there.  I believe ricksteves.com offers info on train tickets although it concerns train passes it still gives you the info.  Others here can give you better advice too.  I believe there is a sight called www.bahn.de which will give you what you need.


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## Zac495 (May 26, 2008)

Jimster said:


> You mean taking a train back to Malaga??  Frankly I would look into that.  In Europe it is generally possible to travel from point A to B without a problem if you just know the transit system.  There are also sites that will route you there.  I believe ricksteves.com offers info on train tickets although it concerns train passes it still gives you the info.  Others here can give you better advice too.  I believe there is a sight called www.bahn.de which will give you what you need.



That site is in Spanish and I can't read it. I tried malega to seville but i had no idea what it was saying/asking.

the extra 2 days of the car rental might be easier.....


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## MULTIZ321 (May 26, 2008)

Ellen,

Go back to the link Jim provided.  In the lower left corner of the Bahn box are 
links for different languages - click on English.  You should then be able to read the website fine and obtain the info you need.


Richard


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## Jimster (May 26, 2008)

*sites*

Yes, I should have indicated you need to make a language choice.  I think the Rick Steves site is easier.  You just plug in the point of origin and destination.  Hope this helps.


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## Blues (May 27, 2008)

If you already have a car, I'd definitely take that.  There is no direct train from Malaga to Sevilla.  You have to go via Cordoba, and that's quite a bit out of the way.

I could have sworn that the Renfe (Spanish national rail) web site used to have an option for English.  But I just went there, and it was Spanish only.


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## nerodog (May 27, 2008)

*trians point to point*

Hi,  if you check out the eurail site or britrail it will bring you to another site where you can buy point to point tix... I have the name of the company at home ! There is also National rail but I found them to be higher in price. Let me recheck the name but if you can look at those sites, they will redirect you , in dollar amounts for your trip. Seville by the way is lovley !!!


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## MULTIZ321 (May 27, 2008)

Blues,

You were correct - Renfe does have a Website in English
http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/ingles.html


Richard


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## Zac495 (May 27, 2008)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Blues,
> 
> You were correct - Renfe does have a Website in English
> http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/ingles.html
> ...



Thanks! At the lowest rate, it would be 18 euro one way per person. Keeping the car evenwith the gas would be cheaper.


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## RIMike (May 27, 2008)

Zac495 said:


> I've focused most of my questions on Marbella because that's where we'll be most of our trip.
> 
> We leave Marbella Marriott on a Sunday. Our plan is to drive there and stop at Cadiz along the way. Map seems to indicate this makes sense. Thoughts?
> 
> ...



Love Seville, so much to see and do...two days are not enough, but we gave it only one day...and spent another day in Granada instead.  The Catherdal is amazing, La Giralda, Real Alcalzar are both MUST sees, all of this can take a full day alone.  One of the great surprises was Casa de la Condesa Lebrija, and enjoyable home turned into a museum with Roman artifacts from near by Italica, which if one had time,I would recommend visiting (Roman Ruins city near Seville)...and Parque Maria Luisa, is a city park on the old grounds of the Palace.  We chose not togo to Cadiz preferring instead to go to the White Hill towns north of Marbella like Ronda, which are amazing; Granada and The Alhambra, which for most in our party was the absolute highlight of the trip; and Gilbraltar which was shockingly different than Spain.  We debated but decided against Morocco and Cadiz.  We drove and all but in the city of Seville was fine. Seville has a very difficult traffic problem. Roads are good and not crazy drivers like in Italy.  We also enjoyed our time in and around the coast like Malaga, Nerja, and Puerto Banus.  My only regret on an otherwise wonderful trip was misisng Cordoba and the outstanding Mezquita.  But then, that is what is so wonderful about southern Spain, so much history, so much to see and do....you have to go back.


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## lynne1956 (May 27, 2008)

My favorite building in southern Spain was the Mezquita at Cordoba; 850 red & white marble arches within a beautiful Moorish building.  Then, after the area converted to Catholicism, they put a very ornate cathedral inside! We only stayed there a few hours on our way from Toledo to Seville, but it was fascinating.  We started in Madrid & visited Avila, Segovia & Toledo before this.  Seville, however,  was everyone's favorite city.  We took the green on/off bus, and this included 2 very informative walking tours and 2 separate bus routes; it took a whole day, but we saw a lot.  We stayed in the Santa Cruz Jewish quarter and it was incredible; I agree that you will happily be lost the whole time you are there.  After Seville, we traveled on to the Marriott Playa Andaluza.  From there we took day trips to Granada, Gibraltar, Tangier, Ronda & Mijas.  It was a wonderful jam-packed 2 weeks!
Lynne


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## nerodog (May 29, 2008)

*rail companies*

Its ACP rail international             also made an error not National Rail but Rail Europe !!!


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## nerodog (May 30, 2008)

*more rail sites to check out for Seville and elsewhere*

thry Railpass.com     for tix for point to point or passes... cheaper than ACR that I was looking at.


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## Zac495 (Jun 3, 2008)

RIMike said:


> Love Seville, so much to see and do...two days are not enough, but we gave it only one day...and spent another day in Granada instead.  The Catherdal is amazing, La Giralda, Real Alcalzar are both MUST sees, all of this can take a full day alone.  One of the great surprises was Casa de la Condesa Lebrija, and enjoyable home turned into a museum with Roman artifacts from near by Italica, which if one had time,I would recommend visiting (Roman Ruins city near Seville)...and Parque Maria Luisa, is a city park on the old grounds of the Palace.  We chose not togo to Cadiz preferring instead to go to the White Hill towns north of Marbella like Ronda, which are amazing; Granada and The Alhambra, which for most in our party was the absolute highlight of the trip; and Gilbraltar which was shockingly different than Spain.  We debated but decided against Morocco and Cadiz.  We drove and all but in the city of Seville was fine. Seville has a very difficult traffic problem. Roads are good and not crazy drivers like in Italy.  We also enjoyed our time in and around the coast like Malaga, Nerja, and Puerto Banus.  My only regret on an otherwise wonderful trip was misisng Cordoba and the outstanding Mezquita.  But then, that is what is so wonderful about southern Spain, so much history, so much to see and do....you have to go back.



Luckily we have a week in Marbella before our 2 days in Seville. We will definitely do Gibalter, Rhonda, Morocco, and Grenada from our t/s in Marbella - Marriott! SO excited! I wish we could stay 2 weeks, but hubby has to work. Everyone should be a teacher like me so they can have more than 3 weeks in the summer. Hee hee


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## Jimster (Jun 3, 2008)

*Gibraltar*

I found Gibraltar totally missable but some others seem to like it.  Certainly go into the caves if you feel compelled to go.  Heed the warnings of others who have posted about Gibraltar (do a search on  here) and time your visit correctly.  You can have huge lines to get in and out of Gibraltar.  BTW if you have a clear day going to Ronda and you look back from the mountains, you can see Gibraltar in the background.


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## Conan (Jun 3, 2008)

Seville:
In the day, visit the Cathedral (check the hours before you go)

At night, Flamenco!!
http://www.10best.com/Seville/Nightlife/Flamenco/index.html


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## Laurie (Jun 4, 2008)

Zac495 said:


> Luckily we have a week in Marbella before our 2 days in Seville. We will definitely do Gibalter, Rhonda, Morocco, and Grenada from our t/s in Marbella - Marriott! SO excited! I wish we could stay 2 weeks, but hubby has to work. Everyone should be a teacher like me so they can have more than 3 weeks in the summer. Hee hee


Although Ronda, Morocco and Grenada are all must-sees, in some ways my favorite day trip in the area was to the little white town of Casares:
http://www.andalucia.com/casares/home.htm

If you want to go somewhere without hordes of other tourists and tour buses, this can provide relief ... we walked from one end of the town to the other, then climbed up to the castle ruins and explored them for awhile, and never saw another tourist the entire day. A few days later we went to Mijas, which didn't compare. That was 10 years ago so I don't know whether or how it has changed.

We ended up skipping Gibraltar because we ran out of time.


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## Blues (Jun 4, 2008)

I liked Cesares too, Laurie.

But my favorite day trip destination was Setenil de las Bodegas.  It's just north of Ronda.  We spent a half day in Ronda, then went on to Acinipo and then Setenil de las Bodegas.  Don't get me wrong -- you can easily spend a day or more in Ronda.  But the other two places were fascinating (though a little hard to find).

Acinipo is an ancient Roman ruin site that has a colosseum.  Pretty interesting stuff, though you needn't spend more than an hour there.  It's only about 20 minutes north of Ronda.

From Acinipo, if you keep going north and then east (a total of about 10 miles), you get to Setenil.  *That's* a fascinating town.  It was built into limestone cliffs, and many of the houses and shops are built so that 3 walls and the ceiling are the cliffs, with just an exterior wall to enclose a small cave.  Truly fascinating to wander around in, and I do believe we were the only tourists in the whole town.

I wish I could figure out how to attach a .kmz (Google Earth) file to this.  I've seen it done on TUG.  But try opening Google Earth, center it at 36 48' 06" North, 5 12' 32" W, and at an eye altitude of about 10.6 mi.  At that point, you'll see Ronda in the lower right of the picture, Acinipo just above and to the left of the center, and Setenil in the upper right corner.


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## Laurie (Jun 4, 2008)

Setenil does look very unique- will make a note for a return trip someday.

Your mentioning Roman ruins reminded me of another place we happened upon: some pretty extensive Roman ruins called Baelo Claudio, in a gorgeous setting, along the drive from Costa del Sol to Cadiz. I think there were maybe 2 other people there, besides ourselves. Here's someone's SlowTravel trip report that describes it:

http://www.slowtrav.com/tr/tripreport.asp?tripid=856&index=2


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## Blues (Jun 6, 2008)

Laurie, Baelo Claudio looks wonderful!  Better than Acinipo, I think.  Acinipo has just one reasonable ruin.

OK, this thread caused me to try to figure out how to post pictures.  Got an account at photobucket, and here's my first try.

This picture was taken from the front seat of our rental car in Setenil.  Yes, we had to go past those cars and through that little opening.  No choice -- one way street!


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## Blues (Jun 6, 2008)

Great, that worked.  Sorry about the image size.  I had already reduced it by half.  But I'll keep going.

So then DW & I parked the car and walked back to get someone to take our picture in the same spot (actually the other side of where the street passes through.


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## Blues (Jun 6, 2008)

Here's a fairly typical view -- houses built both under and on top of the limestone cliffs.


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## Blues (Jun 6, 2008)

OK, last one.  Here's DW shopping in one of the shops.  Note that the walls and ceiling are just the limestone cliff.


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## jerseyfinn (Jun 7, 2008)

> Luckily we have a week in Marbella before our 2 days in Seville. We will definitely do Gibalter, Rhonda, Morocco, and Grenada from our t/s in Marbella - Marriott! SO excited! I wish we could stay 2 weeks, but hubby has to work.



Look, I don't want to rain on the parade, but you are talking about a *lot *of travel in *six *days during your stay at Marriott Marbella. I'm not gonna say that one can not do this sort of itinerary, but be aware that Morocco by itself is an arduous ALL DAY trip which will have you in motion from early morning until evening. Factor in the drive time to and from your resort as the tour company drops off and picks people up ( Marbella will be near the end of the Morrocco run, but there is still time involved ). Everyone I know has loved the Morroco trip, but all describe it as a very long & tiring day . . . the good news is that MMB is a great place to recharge one's battery the next day.

Likewise Granada is another all day journey if you're really gonna invest the time/effort to see the place at leisure ( over 2 hours drive from MMB ). Not impossible, but another full day of driving & time/energy invested. Ronda and environs would be another long day if you take the time to devise a nice circular route, but here you're talking less distance and a carefree day of stop and go as you please. Gibraltar also turns into a day-long deal if you drive and park on the Spanish side and take a tour with a taxi while trying to get a nice lunch in along the way ( it's best not to drive into Gibraltar since long lines often develop on the return queue ). Sevilla is itself some 2 3/4 hour drive from MMB. Add additional time to get to Malaga for your exit flight.

Once again, you can squeeze it all in if you've got the vim and vigor, but you're missing the leisure/cultural aspects which Marbella, Puerto Banus, Estepona, and other surrounding towns and white villages in the mountains offer. It's your choice of course, but Costa del Sol is best experienced as a combination of travel and whimsy. Then again, we own at Marriott Marbella and Marriott Playa Andaluza, so we return every year and find a new locale to add to our list of places visited while also spending some local time to ourselves.

Enjoy your trip, but look carefully at how many driving hours/kilometers are involved and what you will get out of each day.  You might have a good excuse to come back for more in the future. That's what influenced our decision to own in Costa del Sol.

Have a nice trip.

Barry

PS 

Given what petrol costs over there, I'd suggest the train as a way to efficiently move between the end of your (hectic) Marbella itinerary and your extra time in Sevilla. You could pack your bags and leave them at the station in Malaga and go out with a small overnight bag & relax on the train coming and going. Just a thought.


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## Zac495 (Jun 7, 2008)

jerseyfinn said:


> Look, I don't want to rain on the parade, but you are talking about a *lot *of travel in *six *days during your stay at Marriott Marbella. I'm not gonna say that one can not do this sort of itinerary, but be aware that Morocco by itself is an arduous ALL DAY trip which will have you in motion from early morning until evening. Factor in the drive time to and from your resort as the tour company drops off and picks people up ( Marbella will be near the end of the Morrocco run, but there is still time involved ). Everyone I know has loved the Morroco trip, but all describe it as a very long & tiring day . . . the good news is that MMB is a great place to recharge one's battery the next day.
> 
> Likewise Granada is another all day journey if you're really gonna invest the time/effort to see the place at leisure ( over 2 hours drive from MMB ). Not impossible, but another full day of driving & time/energy invested. Ronda and environs would be another long day if you take the time to devise a nice circular route, but here you're talking less distance and a carefree day of stop and go as you please. Gibraltar also turns into a day-long deal if you drive and park on the Spanish side and take a tour with a taxi while trying to get a nice lunch in along the way ( it's best not to drive into Gibraltar since long lines often develop on the return queue ). Sevilla is itself some 2 3/4 hour drive from MMB. Add additional time to get to Malaga for your exit flight.
> 
> ...




I was JUST saying this to hubby. I am worried that this trip is going to be more work than fun.

I'm worried that we'll be hot and bothered and not have fun.

But I hate to fly all the way to Spain and just lie on the beach . I can do that in Aruba - where I own.

Help, help.


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## Zac495 (Jun 7, 2008)

Blues said:


> Great, that worked.  Sorry about the image size.  I had already reduced it by half.  But I'll keep going.
> 
> So then DW & I parked the car and walked back to get someone to take our picture in the same spot (actually the other side of where the street passes through.




LOVE your pics.
Can you email more? zac495@gmail.com


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## Laurie (Jun 8, 2008)

jerseyfinn said:


> It's your choice of course, but Costa del Sol is best experienced as a combination of travel and whimsy.


This is great advice for all destinations! When we have too many - or all - days planned in advance, there is an element of "getting the job done" that can feel laborious and interferes with the magic of discovery. 

Instead we now go with a shorter list of must-sees, and a longer list of possibilities. We try to do the must-sees in order of importance, but stay open to deciding what to do each day based on what we're in the mood for,  considering our energy levels, weather, advice from other travelers or residents we meet, evening events advertised in local newspapers, etc.  

And we now go with the assumption we'll be back someday, rather than the assumption that we never will.


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## jerseyfinn (Jun 8, 2008)

> . . . we now go with a shorter list of must-sees, and a longer list of possibilities . . . we now go with the assumption we'll be back someday, rather than the assumption that we never will. . .



I know exactly what you mean Laurie. Timeshare sort of changes the way one views travel -- for the better.  

We've still got a long " to do " list for Costa del Sol, but we figure that we will get around to things little by little. In the mean time, we loll around the resort and work in some leisurely day drives into the mountains, finding a different squiggly line to follow each time.

We've applied this same outlook/attitude towards our non-timeshare travel as well. We try to work in 2 or 3 long weekend visits to London each year. Aside from purchasing our theater tickets in advance, we allow weather and events to dictate what we do when we get there. The only unfortuante thing is that our restaurant list now exceeds the number of days we have to visit and some difficult "eating" decisions must be made.

I doubt we'd be doing things as we are if not for the liberating effect of timeshare. 

Barry


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## hibbeln (Jun 15, 2008)

Don't sweat, Ellen.  You're fine.  
Your itinerary is very do-able.....we did almost the same thing.  
Yes, you will be on the go a lot, but I'm with you that if I want to lie on the beach somewhere, or by the pool, I'll do it in Florida or the Caribbean or Hawaii!

Remember that it's not all work.  A lot of the places (like Ronda and Gibraltar) you'll be wandering and enjoying the view and it's all rather leisurely.  Even with your day-tripping (Ronda, Gibraltar, etc etc) you'll be back at your resort in the evening AT THE LATEST and can sit and relax and ENJOY (and you simply must enjoy all the wonderful Spanish wines, especially those fab tempranillos!!!).  Heck, you might even be back in time to lie on the beach or frolic in the waves or nap by the pool.  With the hot summer days, early starts and relaxing afternoons might be just what the vacation doctor ordered.

Morocco will be an all day "exhaustion" day, no doubt.  Granada as a daytrip we didn't think was bad at all (but we're used to driving 1 hour to Grandma's for Sunday dinner every week, so a 2 hour drive was no big deal at all).  We got a late start in the morning, arrived by noon (but it was off season so no crowds, I wouldn't recommend that in the summer!), had a COMPLETELY leisurly day of touring (Al-Hambra and then the Capilla Real and then called it a day....we weren't out to kill ourselves and the kids to see EVERYTHING in Granada), and were out of there by 4:30 or so and back in the Marbella area for a relaxing dinner.

I would say to have all your ducks in a row for a full itinerary.  And if you end up hot, miserable and cranky.....well, take a day off and cross something off the list.  But certainly be ready to rock and roll if you're feeling up to it!  In the week we spent there, we covered a TON of ground, but also had 2 days that looking back were pretty much "blow off" days (like the day we wandered around the southern point, trying to get to Cadiz (never made it, too darn far) and got waylaid by the big sand dunes (had to play) and looking out at the Strait (couldn't get enough of that amazing view), and exploring some side roads, got drawn into Baelo Claudio (how can that be so close to the ocean and still look so great 2,000 years later??!) and wandering aimlessly around Tarifa).  That was a pure relaxation day of going wherever our noses led us.


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