# Just saw exit company commercial



## Panina (Jun 22, 2019)

I am in NYC now and I just saw a commericial on tv by a timeshare exit company called Timeshare Compliance.  No wonder people pay companies like this.  I am seasoned and I can understand how people call.  The commercial was so good plus they featured A+ BBB.  Their website was good and reviews were seemingly good. 

The problem isn’t only the developers.  The media that allows these commercial and BBB make people feel companies like these will do them right.  Really know nothing about this company but as tuggers we know better then paying high fees.


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## PigsDad (Jun 23, 2019)

Heck, even Dave Ramsey shills for a timeshare exit company on his radio show.  They must sucker many people, because they obviously have money to spend on some pretty high-profile advertising.

Kurt


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 23, 2019)

Wouldn’t you think that these ads are hurting any new sales for the developer?

There has to be people hearing these and canceling their presentation just because of the negative ads and those who have heard. Bought anyway but then quickly recinded

Maybe pressure from the media such as this will cause developers to come up with a more user friendly sales approach with a good product at a fair price that could actually hold value


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## Grammarhero (Jun 23, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Heck, even Dave Ramsey shills for a timeshare exit company on his radio show.  They must sucker many people, because they obviously have money to spend on some pretty high-profile advertising.
> 
> Kurt



Notwithstanding his shilling for a TS exit company, Dave Ramsey seems popular on this show.  He stays mostly (but now always) to his roots.  Maybe he should have a segment on resale TS and maybe even TUG instead.


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## maddog497 (Jun 23, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Heck, even Dave Ramsey shills for a timeshare exit company on his radio show.  They must sucker many people, because they obviously have money to spend on some pretty high-profile advertising.
> 
> Kurt


I was quite surprised when I heard that on his show also. I know he has a dislike for TS's, so maybe his thought was this was just a natural thing for him to go with. To bad really. 

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## Gypsy65 (Jun 23, 2019)

I personally don’t follow Dave Ramsey and from what I have heard it seems for the most part that he gives good advice

But..... at the end of the day he as well as many others in the advice segment are looking to add to their own bank accounts.
It’s a business and they’re busy selling tickets, books, and whatever else they can to grow that bottom line

This is maybe just a little evidence that those in that arena don’t always thoroughly check into what they’re backing

How many hosts are pumping this or that bed? Alarm systems? Etc.
if you trust Dave or Rush or any other  then you’ll probably buy what they’re selling just like the TS salesperson


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

& why do _exit companies_ exist?


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 23, 2019)

I’m a huge Dave Ramsey follower but I don’t agree with his thoughts on TS’s. I only bought resale and it allows me to vacation cheaply and forces me to vacation to rid myself of the major stress of my job

I hate that these exit companies exist and prey on people and give them false hope.  So very sad


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## WVBaker (Jun 23, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> & why do _exit companies_ exist?


To take your money?


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> To take your money?



Yup, cuz those who already took your money don't want to stop taking your money.


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## bogey21 (Jun 23, 2019)

Panina said:


> I am in NYC now and I just saw a commericial on tv by a timeshare exit company called Timeshare Compliance.  No wonder people pay companies like this.  I am seasoned and I can understand how people call.



Agree.  5 or 6 years ago I attended a couple of meetings put on by Post Card Companies just to see what lies they were spouting and what deals they were pitching.  What surprised me was the receptivity of those attending.  It looked to me like over 75% of those there were buying into the lies and proceeding to engage (and pay) the presenters...

George


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## WVBaker (Jun 23, 2019)

Panina said:


> I am in NYC now and I just saw a commericial on tv by a timeshare exit company called Timeshare Compliance.  No wonder people pay companies like this.  I am seasoned and I can understand how people call.  The commercial was so good plus they featured A+ BBB.  Their website was good and reviews were seemingly good.
> 
> The problem isn’t only the developers.  The media that allows these commercial and BBB make people feel companies like these will do them right.  Really know nothing about this company but as tuggers we know better then paying high fees.



"BBB ratings are not a guarantee of a business's reliability or performance. BBB recommends that consumers consider a business's BBB rating in addition to all other available information about the business."

BBB ratings are based on information in BBB files with respect to certain factors.
https://www.bbb.org/overview-of-bbb-ratings

BBB ratings don't mean that much to me.

These corporations, like most, have big budgets for advertising. In and of itself, that's where they locate their "clients" and not word of mouth. They need to continually look for new victims.

As for the media. The media cares very little about whether a product is legitimate or not. Look at any commercial for supplements that claim miracle results. All the media does is air a commercial. The media makes no guarantee that the product or it's corporate seller is legitimate. The seller may inform the viewers that results may vary. Just look for that tiny 6 pt. type that zips by at the bottom of the screen.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2019)

Some of these companies call management companies of independent resorts and beg, plead and threaten the management company to take back the timeshares.  It's a general misunderstanding of timeshare, really.  So if you have an independent timeshare with a management company the board hires to be fiscally responsible, the board and the HOA don't want the timeshares back with no ability to sell to new people.

So these companies hurt the HOA as well as take money from the owner.  I have no answers, but we started giving people a way out of their weeks for a price to cover a few years of MF's.  Fees on a ski week are now about $980 and were literally $560 only about five years ago.  This is what happens at older resorts.  Just FYI.  We do have a sunset clause, which is great, but it's over a decade away.  I don't know how long owners are going to put up with higher fees.  We do have some big expenses coming up, like new roofs, and the hot tubs on the decks need replacing, and our concrete pads outside for the hot tubs are looking sad.  So much to do.  We haven't even updated the kitchens.  That is something we should consider doing, but we cannot afford to do it now.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> independent resorts . . . don't want the timeshares back



Some do, and some that don't will, with enough prodding, and become more successful once they do.

Perhaps the owners at those that don't, need to rethink how their resorts are being managed.

Ignoring or refusing to do something about problems does not resolve them, it escalates them.

As you point out in the rest of your post, and not only at your resort, there are a lot of factors that suggest that a critical mass situation is in the future.
- - - - - -
But, if you are saying that a resort takes backs weeks when not being prepared or willing to do something with them, rent or sell, and that causes fees to go up, well, that's just a dumb plan.

But, I totally understand how HOA members can feel that that is not their responsibility, that their job essentially is to meet a couple times a year, and no one ever said they should roll of their sleeves and do anything else.

But, OTOH, if a resort takes back non-performing weeks, their income should not change, non-performing meaning what it does.


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 23, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> "BBB ratings are not a guarantee of a business's reliability or performance. BBB recommends that consumers consider a business's BBB rating in addition to all other available information about the business."
> 
> BBB ratings are based on information in BBB files with respect to certain factors.
> https://www.bbb.org/overview-of-bbb-ratings
> ...




Same with the JD Power award


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## Brett (Jun 23, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> "BBB ratings are not a guarantee of a business's reliability or performance. BBB recommends that consumers consider a business's BBB rating in addition to all other available information about the business."
> 
> BBB ratings are based on information in BBB files with respect to certain factors.
> https://www.bbb.org/overview-of-bbb-ratings
> ...



absolutely true

somewhat related, TUG got a mention in this article on Timeshares
unfortunately the article didn't say you should be a TUG member before you buy the timeshare
*https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-money-talk-timeshare-scams-20190623-story.html*


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## Janann (Jun 23, 2019)

There is an exit company that advertises on the radio in my city, usually on weekend afternoons.  Despite the shadiness of what they might be selling, part of the ad tells the absolute truth:

_Did y'all's maintenance fee go up this year?
Of course it did.
And it will next year too.

_


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

The sadness is that the victim is the victim again.

I hate to see them getting villianized.

Then, people like Pam Bondi, from atop her high horse, gets all preachy about how she's protecting folks from these predatory scammers, while new victims are being churned out by the _legitimate_ industry in her State every day.

You can't rely on a politician to protect you from scams, since the two are so closely related.


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## JohnPaul (Jun 23, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> "BBB ratings are not a guarantee of a business's reliability or performance. BBB recommends that consumers consider a business's BBB rating in addition to all other available information about the business."
> 
> BBB ratings are based on information in BBB files with respect to certain factors.
> https://www.bbb.org/overview-of-bbb-ratings
> ...



I wouldn't put too much stake in a good BBB rating but a bad one would sure raise red flags.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 23, 2019)

the main problem most folks have with these outfits is that their main target is owners of resorts that can easily be given back (or given away).

check out any facebook page/post/etc of any of the larger players...youll find countless owners asking for help to dump their long since paid off bluegreen/wyndham/diamond/holiday inn club/worldmark/etc...heck even marriotts and hiltons...

so to pretend that these companies exist purely to "help" owners out of a bad situation is laughable...they take advantage of those who unfortunately dont know any better just as bad as the salesperson did that sold them in the first place.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> check out any facebook page/post/etc of any of the larger players...youll find countless owners asking for help to dump their long since paid off bluegreen/wyndham/diamond/holiday inn club/worldmark/etc...heck even marriotts and hiltons...



So, to tie into another discussion, aren't these the corporate-controlled operations with ROFR, and why is that not working/protecting those owners, if that's the case?


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## JohnPaul (Jun 23, 2019)

Because you have to have an actual sales transaction to get ROFR.  Most of these folks don't have a clue how to do that.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 23, 2019)

based on the numbers reported from these official programs, seems many are working very well.

however the amount of money spent on advertising by these "firms" far exceeds that of which is being spent by developers to advertise their exit programs, likely by an order of magnitude!  (look at the title of this post as an example)

unfortunately when so many folks research ends at the 2nd or 3rd google search result, there is literally zero chance they will be linked to anything other than an upfront fee company.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> unfortunately when so many folks research ends at the 2nd or 3rd google search result, there is literally zero chance they will be linked to anything other than an upfront fee company.



or a TUG post


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> Most of these folks don't have a clue how to do that.



That reminds me of my now-deceased neighbor, who sold timeshares, and with whom I sometimes had heated debates, who, ultimately, asked me to get rid of his timeshares for him.


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## Grammarhero (Jun 23, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> That reminds me of my now-deceased neighbor, who sold timeshares, and with whom I sometimes had heated debates, who, ultimately, asked me to get rid of his timeshares for him.



That is funny.  How was he in real life?  Was it just a job for him?  Was he in denial about financial stress he was helping to put people in?  Did he drink the resort kool-aid in thinking he was helping people to great family memories?


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> That is funny.  How was he in real life?  Was it just a job for him?  Was he in denial about financial stress he was helping to put people in?  Did he drink the resort kool-aid in thinking he was helping people to great family memories?



I only knew him in real life.

Well, yes, he drank.

&, he was from SOCAL, a special person from a special place, tossed in with us heathens.

I did not know he sold timeshares (which he did at a place we now own at, for year-round golf rights).  One day we took his SO out on the boat with us, and afterwards she invited us over for cocktails, which, it seems, is what that generation did/does to socialize, drink at make pretentious small talk.

She and we were talking about our timeshares, and she had said they had gotten theirs other than retail, so I figured they were educated like folks on TUG.  I made some comment like folks here would make, and he literally blew up and started yelling at me, with no forewarning.

But, they knew I knew how to get things done, so, later on, they asked me to get rid of their Mexican timeshares.  I found someone to take them, but, then they backed out because they wanted something for weeks they had Spacebanked.

So, I just contacted their resort and got the SO taken off the account, and his ultimate exit strategy resolved things.

Afterwards, with her new boyfriend, she had me arrange RCI vacations with him (new boyfriend), which I did online.


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## Grammarhero (Jun 23, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> I only knew him in real life.
> 
> Well, yes, he drank.
> 
> ...



I’m from SoCal, not that special of a place.  
Opps.  I misread.  What was his exit strategy?  Hopefully it wasn’t morbid.

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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I’m from SoCal, not that special of a place.
> Opps.  I misread.  What was his exit strategy?  Hopefully it wasn’t morbid.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Well, when I said special person from a special place, I was just trying to make a comment about the attitude of people from there when they move here.

& when I said _ultimate _exit strategy, to me it's morbid, but probably not to everyone.

Sorry I opened this can . . . there's a lot of worms in it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Some do, and some that don't will, with enough prodding, and become more successful once they do.
> 
> Perhaps the owners at those that don't, need to rethink how their resorts are being managed.
> 
> ...


The HOA takes back weeks from people who want to deed them back.  This is the least offensive way to get the weeks back for the owner. 

Our management company is HIRED by the HOA BOD, and they are doing their best to rent the HOA weeks when they can.  They can rent winter ski, but they don't rent much else.  Its been a problem for about ten years now, so really since the postcard companies started hawking the service to "rid" owners of their timeshare responsibility.  Sometimes, it is just about the HOA saying, "Okay, we will take it back."  We would rather eliminate the middle man who gets $3-5,000 for doing the same thing. 

We have judgments against people who have not paid in years, and we will never see a dime.  People do not realize the obligation or don't want to face it in their retirement, when going to the mountains is no longer their idea of a good vacation.  I totally get that, but we own 7 weeks, and I rent out 4 and deposit 3 into HTSE.net.  I send a letter to owners once in a while to let them know about alternative exchange companies, and I need to do that again for our annual meeting in November.  RCI doesn't give our silver crown resort enough trading power for most people to pay the membership, the exchange fees and the maintenance fees on their weeks.  They would have to travel last-minute to get anything. 

Timeshares built in the early 80's do not have much value.  You see them on eBay for $1 with no bids.  Don't tell me our plan is dumb.  That is rude.  You are clueless about this process with older timeshares.  You are damned if you take them back and damned if you don't, and that is the real truth.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

That's a pretty accurate summary of the situation, which many here do not seem to appreciate.

As for the portions of your post targeting me personally . . . to be fair to me, which I always like to be, my entire statement was:

_*But, if you are saying that a resort takes backs weeks when not being prepared or willing to do something with them, rent or sell, and that causes fees to go up, well, that's just a dumb plan.
*_
as you can see, I said *a* resort, not *your* resort

Having said that, and I had to go back and read your original post to see why I said what I did, I see that the way I read it, and the way I re-read it, it makes like your resort management does not try to rent or resell the weeks they take back.  You make it clear that they do only in your follow-up post. 

&

*You are clueless about this process with older timeshares. *

is also not accurate.  Been dealing with them for 30 years, and have seen and dealt with the good and the bad.  I've seen them fold.  I've seen them flourish.  I've seen them deal with Sunset clauses.  I've seen them deal with hurricanes.  I've seen them deal with resale companies.  I've seen them deal with developers.  I've seen them deal with recessions.  I've seen them deal with foreclosures (regular and non-judicial).  I've seen them litigate, get judgments and put liens on owners' other properties. I've seen them deal with rental programs.  I've seen them deal with on-site and local resale agents.  I've seen them deal with auctions.  I've even dealt with Wastegate, OLCC, II, RCI, and . . . . . . .

as for

*That is rude.*

dunno, but it was not intended to be

And why does a person feel a need to defend themselves to an almost-complete-stranger on the Internet?

dunno that either, but folks do it a lot. 

just did

But, then, maybe I did not read your second post right, either.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2019)

> dunno, but it was not intended to be
> 
> And why does a person feel a need to defend themselves to an almost-complete-stranger on the Internet?
> 
> ...


I am not really offended at all, and I needn't be so brash and apologize for being rude myself. So sorry.  

I feel that people here on TUG do not know the problems we face at an older timeshare like Val Chatelle.  They are quick to say timeshare resorts need to institute a takeback policy, so we did it, the entire board, but it's been way too successful.  We took back more weeks than we thought, and of course a lot are just not paying, so a lot of weeks just sitting idle with no possible way to sell them.

Foxrun Townhouses just faced a sunset clause and I wanted to see the timeshare just end.  We own two weeks there.  A board member for FRT saw my post on TUG and was insanely insulted.  It seemed the right thing to do.  Similar situation to our Val Chatelle.  The Val Chatelle units themselves are in Summit County, CO, so the real estate is extremely valuable, unlike Foxrun, where closing the resort might net per unit maybe $200K, and VC is worth more like $600K.  We talked of combining remaining owners into some of the units and sell a few to help pay for roofs, hot tubs and other needed items.  We are a very involved BOD and the management would rather we weren't, I think.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I feel that people here on TUG do not know the problems we face at an older timeshare like Val Chatelle.  They are quick to say timeshare resorts need to institute a takeback policy, so we did it, the entire board, but it's been way too successful.  We took back more weeks than we thought, and of course a lot are just not paying, so a lot of weeks just sitting idle with no possible way to sell them.



Absolutely, and they cannot connect the dots, that's what's bad for the industry is bad for all the industry.

*It's hard to get people to admit it, but one reason I sense people don't want deedbacks at their resorts, and maybe the main reason, is that they don't want to find out what they might find out.  That is the realization that a particular resort no longer has the appeal it once did, and that it may be time to consider more drastic options.*

I often say that if there is not a rental demand for the bulk of a resort's weeks for more than the maintenance fee, then the canary in the coal mine is at least gasping.  Same goes if you can't find new owners at any price.  Same goes if the real estate itself does not have sufficient value to be re-purposed.

*What would be more helpful than Internet angst, largely people who don't care, don't think it will ever happen to them like we thought 20 years ago, and simply don't want to be annoyed with someone talking about it, is taking a look at what the failed resorts did or didn't do.*

Take two, Apple Valley and Inn@SilverCreek.  Both have/had historically struggled.

There is no reason in the world why Apple Valley should not have been successful . . . only resort in Ohio, nice/spacious duplex units, great golf course and rural lake development adjacent, large metro areas a couple hour's drive away.  I don't know what they did in recent years, but when things started to go awry, exactly 20 years ago, they instituted what would be considered the traditional industry approach.  They opened up a duplex that had been used for storage, which gave them 100 weeks to sell, brought in a traditional marketing team like a corporate-controlled resort still in marketing phase, instituted a 1-in-4 program, and all that traditional crap that was supposed to make people want to buy a week.

It did not.

I don't know if they had an owner's rental program, assisted in owner resales, anything _radical_ like those, but I do know that at the end, after all the litigation and title work and the largest lawsuit in the State of Ohio in number of parties, only 105 owners rode it out to the end . . . so the number of lifeboats was ample.

OTOH, at ISC, after utilizing traditional tactics for many years, including litigation and judgments on owners' other properties, they finally relented, started taking weeks back, charging an extra year's fees, transfer fee, and recording fee, combined reacquired weeks into full ownership condos, which had a strong market in the area, and started selling them, and have an ORP, pocketing 65%.

Well, now it's a _diamond in the rough, _I've heard.

I could talk about similar things for the many, many legacy resorts of SW FL, sorta ground zero for 30 and 40-year-old resorts, and it would be similar.  A desirable tourist destination, real market rental value, real market sale value (albeit lower than retail corporate selling prices), real value in the real estate itself, owner rental programs, owner resale programs or agents, non-judicial foreclosure (or deedbacks), offering owners extra weeks at discounted rental rates, and so forth.


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

The country club-style exclusivity that appealed to timeshare owners a generation ago, got corrupted long ago when non-owners were allowed into the same facilities, to fill vacant units, to subsidize revenues.  Perhaps that was the first inkling that things were going awry, and now the younger market is not impressed by country club-style exclusivity, even at country clubs.

So, no doubt, it's tough nowadays for timeshares.


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## bogey21 (Jun 23, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> VC [Val Chatelle] is worth more like $600K.  We talked of combining remaining owners into some of the units and sell a few to help pay for roofs, hot tubs and other needed items.



This seems like a rational way to keep MFs reasonable and slowly wind down the operation.  I hope you can pull it off...

George


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## OldGuy (Jun 23, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We talked of combining remaining owners into some of the units and sell a few to help pay for roofs, hot tubs and other needed items.



See, that's what I'm saying when I said it would be nice to look at what others have done, maybe have a database or clearing house.  In this case there's a resort right there in CO that is already doing that.

And, what Apple Valley had to do every distressed resort needs to know.  There's a lot involved in doing the title work for 1250 owners, and what it takes, legally, to partition, and what all that costs.  Go look at the financials that Brian posted in the Apple Valley thread.

Volunteer boards need more info and help dealing with things they never thought they'd have to deal with.

IMO, the bottom line is that there has to be a real value in the property for there to be any hope.  Take a legacy resort like Bonita Resort and Club, representative of other legacy resorts in SW FL.  Old, spartan, but well maintained, and, as they say Location, Location, Location.






 24 1-bedroom condos, and two 2-bedroom penthouse condos. BBQ grills, pool, boat ramp, and pontoon boats.

Forget about it being timeshare.  What's it worth, as is?

Check Zillow.  Nearby condos start at $500,000.  In the day, teardown houses went for $1.5M, and that's coming back.

That sure is a pretty old building, and setting, isn't it?

What do you think about the paint color . . I remember when they were trying to decide on it?


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 23, 2019)

This might be off base??
A few cocktails and nothing to do

Timeshares my dad bought decades ago allowed us a better “hotel” than what Tom offered over at the 6 or 8??

Anyway
I’m 53. We own at Orange Lake etc.
 20 years ago you couldn’t  have given me the week at that place to watch grandpa play golf.
OL has seen the change. Made changes and today the place is geared  towards that family that wants the experiences. Not so much the golfer
I may be wrong but I expect one day that the courses they have  there will be more buildings and pools in place of the golf
All those acres of grass generate next to zero revenue.
Not knocking golf. But my kids as well as many others have no interest in that

Timeshare clubs who are progressing with the times will fair better than those who don’t

These older timeshares served a purpose and many benefited from them ( for the times )

I have a 15 YO son. Will be starting his 2nd year of college and is taking 3 separate computer courses. This. That. And cyber security
All the kids ( 7 ) between my wife and I are gone but the 15 YO is ours. He has said many times that he wants the TS when we die or are done

This. A 15yo. That shows what the resorts have changed into and what experiences he has been given via the TS

Need another cocktail


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## LannyPC (Jun 23, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Some of these companies call management companies of independent resorts and beg, plead and threaten the management company to take back the timeshares.



Which is one reason why when people come on here asking about such-and-such exit/cancel/relief companies, we tell them that these companies are going to charge the owners thousands of dollars to do something the owners can do themselves.  Even if the owner agrees to pay the HOA closing costs and the next MF, (s)he will still come out ahead rather than paying an exit company thousands of dollars.


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## isisdave (Jun 24, 2019)

There have been a couple of articles in the LA Times recently

https://www.latimes.com/sns-tns-bc-pfp-tompor-column-20190610-story.html

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-money-talk-timeshare-scams-20190623-story.html

Actually if you search for "timeshare" there, a large percentage of the articles are about getting out.

Also, there is an ad in the current issue of AARP magazine, page 51,  for Wesley Financial Group -- "we cancel timeshares for you." That really surprised me


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## OldGuy (Jun 24, 2019)

isisdave said:


> Also, there is an ad in the current issue of AARP magazine, page 51,  for Wesley Financial Group -- "we cancel timeshares for you." That really surprised me



& when I searched them, they have a good record

Several years ago, when I was in the midst of trying to unload, I talked to a legitimate person who helps people get out of their timeshares.  he was very old school, stuff like chumming around with the Kennedys, and what he did was use his power of persuasion, and persistence.  That was about it.  If he succeeded, you paid him a fair fee.  If he didn't, you didn't.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jun 24, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> the main problem most folks have with these outfits is that their main target is owners of resorts that can easily be given back (or given away).
> 
> check out any facebook page/post/etc of any of the larger players...youll find countless owners asking for help to dump their long since paid off bluegreen/wyndham/diamond/holiday inn club/worldmark/etc...heck even marriotts and hiltons...
> 
> so to pretend that these companies exist purely to "help" owners out of a bad situation is laughable...they take advantage of those who unfortunately dont know any better just as bad as the salesperson did that sold them in the first place.



I hate to sound cold-blooded, (Nadreck is only a distant cousin. . . ), there sounds like a business opportunity here. . . Get a free Marriott, and then sell it with the purpose of getting it taken by ROFR. . .


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## WVBaker (Jun 24, 2019)

Seems to me that's quite wishful thinking. You do understand that any developer exercising their ROFR is not guaranteed.


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## Panina (Jun 24, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> Seems to me that's quite wishful thinking. You do understand that any developer exercising their ROFR is not guaranteed.


Exactly, the resale market will reflect what resale owners are willing to pay and the owner will accept.  The developer then decides if they will take it for that price.  The seller gets resale market value either way.  The resale buyer is the one that loses out.


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## Fredflintstone (Jun 24, 2019)

Panina said:


> I am in NYC now and I just saw a commericial on tv by a timeshare exit company called Timeshare Compliance.  No wonder people pay companies like this.  I am seasoned and I can understand how people call.  The commercial was so good plus they featured A+ BBB.  Their website was good and reviews were seemingly good.
> 
> The problem isn’t only the developers.  The media that allows these commercial and BBB make people feel companies like these will do them right.  Really know nothing about this company but as tuggers we know better then paying high fees.



I agree. One thing to add is whether timeshare exit is a slick commercial or endorsed by Dave Ramsay, the other message is clear:

1. Timeshares are garbage and need expert help to rid the problem.
2. Timeshares are a mistake.

These messages lead to many others not even stepping foot on resales at giveaway prices. Yes, it hurts the developers but also hurts those trying to get out as these commercials make timeshares look like a big problem in the first place. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bluehende (Jun 24, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> I hate to sound cold-blooded, (Nadreck is only a distant cousin. . . ), there sounds like a business opportunity here. . . Get a free Marriott, and then sell it with the purpose of getting it taken by ROFR. . .



If the free transfer passed ROFR why would they use that same right costing them cash.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jun 24, 2019)

Depends on the system. Are there ROFR on gifted weeks? If not. . . .


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## Panina (Jun 24, 2019)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Depends on the system. Are there ROFR on gifted weeks? If not. . . .


I gifted a HGVC week, no ROFR occured.  I had to sign an affidavit.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Jun 24, 2019)

Once gifted to you, then resale, then ROFR . . .


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## WVBaker (Jun 24, 2019)

Albeit an interesting theory, it seems to have a few variables that the seller has little to no control over. You may simply end up with a stockpile of timeshares, which of course brings maintenance fees and other costs, until a transaction takes place. Given the value of any timeshare in this market could take many months, if not years.


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## rapmarks (Jun 24, 2019)

I just saw the commercial, 1-800-breakup.    Clever


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## Panina (Jun 24, 2019)

There are more and more commercials from these exit companies and it does make many think timeshares are no good as a whole.  These exit companies are way worse then the developers as most just pay lots and get nothing in return.


----------



## WVBaker (Jun 24, 2019)

rapmarks said:


> I just saw the commercial, 1-800-breakup.    Clever



Good number for a divorce lawyer.


----------



## OldGuy (Jun 24, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I feel that people here on TUG do not know the problems we face at an older timeshare.



For the resorts that were around and for those who owned timeshares when TUG started, the topics, issues, and concerns are different than for those resorts and owners that have started more recently.

It's like there's two different forums here, and sometimes they clash.


----------



## TUGBrian (Jun 25, 2019)

another example of how far ahead of the curve these folks are in engaging owners...check out this recent facebook post and not only the number of "likes"...but the number of comments...and the number of shares.






also note they have blocked the TUG account from commenting/posting on any of their ads...we used to reply to owners of the systems that had deedback programs with the information to use those programs...all those posts got deleted of course.

it was frustrating to find ads like these FILLED with wyndham/diamond/westgate/holiday inn club/worldmark/etc owners who had no idea those systems offered exit programs.


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## Panina (Jun 25, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> another example of how far ahead of the curve these folks are in engaging owners...check out this recent facebook post and not only the number of "likes"...but the number of comments...and the number of shares.
> 
> View attachment 12597
> 
> ...


Simply sad they can get away with this.


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## OldGuy (Jun 26, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> . . . it was frustrating to find ads like these FILLED with wyndham/diamond/westgate/holiday inn club/worldmark/etc owners who had no idea those systems offered exit programs.



So, do you feel TUG is a place to talk (more) about exit programs, and how to encourage more of them?


----------



## Grammarhero (Jun 26, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> So, do you feel TUG is a place to talk (more) about exit programs, and how to encourage more of them?



I guess so.  It’s sort of pick your poison, or between a rock and a hard place.  It’s just picking the more desirable of two bad options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## silentg (Jun 26, 2019)

I take exception to the comment about golf courses. One reason we own at Orange Lake is for the Golf Courses.To each his own, but We live nearby and can have day use of the facility.
We also love River Island and go over quite often.
Always lots of golfers in the winter months.
Silentg


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## TUGBrian (Jun 26, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> So, do you feel TUG is a place to talk (more) about exit programs, and how to encourage more of them?



exit programs are discussed here all the time, you can find dozens of posts about them in multiple forums here on the site.  we even have advice articles that discuss them specifically.

no idea why anyone without a specific agenda would think any differently.  Although if I had to guess, you likely meant 3rd party exit COMPANIES that all charge staggeringly high upfront fees for their "services", but these are also discussed very frequently...though not supported here in any way shape or form given their common practices that are as bad if not worse than the ones used by developers to lure folks into ownership in the first place.


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 26, 2019)

silentg said:


> I take exception to the comment about golf courses. One reason we own at Orange Lake is for the Golf Courses.To each his own, but We live nearby and can have day use of the facility.
> We also love River Island and go over quite often.
> Always lots of golfers in the winter months.
> Silentg



I’m not knocking the courses. That’s what OL originally built around
Back then had they mentioned there were going to be pools and more pools and river island and kids and families everywhere then the person wanting it for golf maybe would have second guessed buying??

I’m just saying. Having seen it happen many times, that one day I would imagine the revenue from 10 more buildings would outway that of the courses
They still have a lot of land so you’re probably fine
But golf as with most all sports are dying. Either due to the injuries that come from them. The fact that most families no longer go to a baseball, football, hockey game etc. due to its costs therefore the kids develop no interest. Or just because we have moved to a tech society 

Recently my wife and I took our 3 kids to a hockey game. By the time the night was over I think i spent close to $2000

Baseball is also getting ridiculous, not that long ago we could go for about a $1-150 day


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## silentg (Jun 26, 2019)

Sports are encouraged in my family, my kids were more musical. DD is still in music business. Son not but he is in travel business so both are ok. 
We used to play sports when younger now we golf but not in extreme heat .
Soccer seems to be what young kids are playing these days. 
Orange Lake is the nicest resort for family, it’s close to Disney but you can go there and have a fun day at the resort. The Units are well kept up. It’s so much better than some of the other timeshares around there, although we haven’t been to Margarettaville yet.
Silentg


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## OldGuy (Jun 27, 2019)

silentg said:


> I take exception to the comment about golf courses. One reason we own at Orange Lake is for the Golf Courses.To each his own, but We live nearby and can have day use of the facility.
> We also love River Island and go over quite often.
> Always lots of golfers in the winter months.
> Silentg



The two weeks we still own are for year-round amenities rights, one for golf and one for beach.

Did someone say something about golf courses?

Oh, and I have golfed at OLCC, but more at Remiongton, especially when it was All You Can Hit, Golf and Eat.


----------



## OldGuy (Jun 28, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I feel that people here on TUG do not know the problems we face at an older timeshare . . .



History shows us that you cannot rely on the expert advice on the Internet to find perfect solutions.

It's curious that those who followed the how-to-buy, where-to-buy, when-to-buy advice here on TUG 20 years ago are now wondering how to deal with the issues that advice created.  You can only do as good as the best you can do at any time, but the advice given from some here today is that people who are encountering problems with their timeshares are just not as smart as the people giving the advice now are, m/l.  There's not many real answers being provided, and the attempts at that are being criticized.

It would have been hard to do something 20 years ago that did not exist 20 years ago, and it makes me wonder what the smart people in 20 years will be saying.

_Maybe if I owned some crap weeks I would like this idea, but I purchased good weeks that have preserved their value, while buying them for a big discount from developer prices. I don't see any issue with selling my weeks when the time comes.
- - - - - -
There is already a FAIR strategy in place -----if you want out, sell it for what you can.
There are many examples of choices we make in life that demand ongoing responsibilities, and buying a timeshare is one of them.
- - - - - -
Guess I chose wisely. No luck, just basic research..... homework. 
- - - - - -
Another way that makes exiting easy is to buy right.
- - - - - -
I also have had involuntary thoughts. If I expressed mine out loud, I'd get my face slapped (or worse).
- - - - - -
. . . Owners who are nimble survive to live and play another day.
- - - - - -
It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any).
I DID learn, however...perhaps new to many,
that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities.
- - - - - -
My answer was to sell, period, THAT is the only "exit strategy" that is doable and right. 
- - - - - -
It's not "their" responsibility to figure out how to handle you getting out of a contract that you signed and you used. It is YOUR responsibility. If YOU don't have a plan, then don't buy it.
_


----------



## WVBaker (Jun 28, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> History shows us that you cannot rely on the expert advice on the Internet to find perfect solutions.
> 
> It's curious that those who followed the how-to-buy, where-to-buy, when-to-buy advice here on TUG 20 years ago are now wondering how to deal with the issues that advice created.  You can only do as good as the best you can do at any time, but the advice given from some here today is that people who are encountering problems with their timeshares are just not as smart as the people giving the advice now are, m/l.  There's not many real answers being provided, and the attempts at that are being criticized.
> 
> It would have been hard to do something 20 years ago that did not exist 20 years ago, and it makes me wonder what the smart people in 20 years will be saying.



You need to understand that there is no "perfect solution" to any problem. No solution should be rejected simply because some part of the problem would still remain after it were tried. Often, the choice is made between one realistic achievable possibility and another unrealistic solution that could in some way perhaps be better.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 28, 2019)

as has been stated in the past...an exit strategy exists for 100% of owners.  what folks are desperately seeking is a way to default on a contract without any sort of penalty (financial or credit/otherwise).  that is a completely different ask.  

certainly a fascinating strategy to somehow try to blame TUG and its members for this though.


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## rapmarks (Jun 28, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> as has been stated in the past...an exit strategy exists for 100% of owners.  what folks are desperately seeking is a way to default on a contract without any sort of penalty (financial or credit/otherwise).  that is a completely different ask.
> 
> certainly a fascinating strategy to somehow try to blame TUG and its members for this though.


Yes and while we are at it, at what point do we start the exit strategy. Is it twenty years? Ten?  The fellow that posts eleven days after he signed the contract and owes lots of money, do we need to come up with an exit strategy for him too?


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## OldGuy (Jun 28, 2019)

Brian:

Two mischaracterizations (is that a word).

1.  I do not support "getting out of" a timeshare "contract" without "penalty."

My words: 

_I am not opposed to a refundable termination fee, the amount of the termination fee being fair, and the amount of refund based on the Association's ability to *replace that terminating owner's annual fee*.

I'm not saying that 10 years of future annual fee payments is a fair amount to make this idea productive, but that can be compromised and worked out. Whatever it takes to take the angst out of timeshare ownership, resort-by-resort, is a good thing.
- - - - -
The deedback program they finally approved requires one year's maintenance fee and a $150 transfer fee. I countered with "I'll just Quit Claim it to you like I have Quit Claimed our other two weeks to new owners," and they said No. Then I countered with, I'll pay if you'll refund the extra fee if you sell or rent it for enough to pay it, and they said No.

So I said, what the Hey, we've talked this out for all these years, and I've already managed to transfer 6 weeks without any fees, so I'll just let the rental income we would receive in 2020 to offset that fee go, and we will finally be down to the two weeks that actually fit our needs now, 30 years after we started timesharing.
_
(That, really is the type of Exit Strategy I would support . . . a long-time, loyal owner working with a somewhat-open-minded resort to achieve a mutually satisfactory outcome, although some legacy resorts have made mutually-acceptable termination programs standard (and there has not been a mass Exodus).

There is nothing about anything I favor that would allow deadbeats to walk away from their obligations.

2.  I am not blaming TUG for anything.  I'm just saying those who followed the best advice 20 years ago now have problems that were not anticipated 20 years ago.  So, what will 20 years from now be like for those who follow the best advice of today?


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## bogey21 (Jun 28, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> It's curious that those who followed the how-to-buy, where-to-buy, when-to-buy advice here on TUG 20 years ago are now wondering how to deal with the issues that advice created.  You can only do as good as the best you can do at any time...



What got me through my 15 years or so TimeSharing without losing a lot of money was being nimble.  It was akin to  Day Trading stocks vs following a Buy to Hold strategy...

George


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## OldGuy (Jun 28, 2019)

Bogey:

That's "past tense".  Are you not timesharing any more?


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 28, 2019)

I’m not sure I follow the refund theory
 What you’re asking is. If the company sells the TS before the end of the date that the dues were covered then you want money back?

So what you are asking for is a refund if it sells. In that scenario are you also offering to pay all the fees if it doesn’t?  Pay ( any incurred office fees? )and continue to do so until it does sell?

Sorta like selling a car to someone and saying. If you profit any when you sell it then I want that amount sent back to me

I don’t see how the resort owes you , I , or anyone else an exit plan 
And now that they do, you don’t like the fees and terms that they’ve set forth 

I’m sure one day I may feel the same but I still wouldn’t expect anyone to come to my rescue 

Those comments sound more like what the millennials are expecting. And that’s for someone to coddle them throughout life
 It costs money to run a business. 
Are they making too much?  Who gets to determine what “ too much “ is?

We all have the opportunity to go out and develop our own TS units and make those same margins don’t we ?

I owned a business where I had 20 - 30 crews working for me. All of them were in the same field I was and I started out as a laborer and worked my way up

One day we bought a 280 Sundancer boat and one of the guys said “ looks like I bought you a new boat “
He was let go the very minute
Reason was he bought me nothing. I took the risks and put the funds up to start this business 
He had the exact same qualifications as I but no business sense

I’ve always said. 10% of the people run 90% of the world


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## PigsDad (Jun 28, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> as has been stated in the past...an exit strategy exists for 100% of owners.  what folks are desperately seeking is a way to default on a contract without any sort of penalty (financial or credit/otherwise).  that is a completely different ask.
> 
> certainly a fascinating strategy to somehow try to blame TUG and its members for this though.


Well stated, Brian.  I'm really baffled by the constant belittling of those think when someone wants out of their timeshare, it is up to them to find someone to sell to / take over their ownership, vs. being owed some sort of program by the HOA (who are the other owners) to dispose of it for them.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.  Yes, most will lose money on the sale, and the sale price may even be negative.  That's life.  Sometimes I make good investments, sometimes not, but I own my decisions and don't look for someone else to bail me out.  I agree with @Gypsy65  when they stated that maybe some people just need to be coddled through life.  Who knows?

This may all sound harsh, and maybe I'm just being cranky on a Friday afternoon, but at this point I really don't care.  I'm getting tired of being badgered by the same comments on multiple threads in multiple forums.  It might be time to look into the "ignore" feature of this forum.  It would be nice if this site got back to being the Timeshare *Users *Forum.

Kurt


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 28, 2019)

I agree @PigsDad 

We all make good and not so good decisions 
We win and lose. At the end of the day we just need to win more than we lose

Who wins at everything?

No one 

Enjoy life. 

I know for us and what we own it has been great for the most part and I don’t keep count of the costs
If I did that for this. Then I have to for that steak dinner we went out and had. That new car we bought etc

Ridiculous 

Who wants to live like that?


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## bluehende (Jun 28, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> One day we bought a 280 Sundancer boat and one of the guys said “ looks like I bought you a new boat “
> He was let go the very minute
> Reason was he bought me nothing. I took the risks and put the funds up to start this business
> He had the exact same qualifications as I but no business sense
> ...



Did you pay him every dollar you collected for his labor?  Or did you add a bit?


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## OldGuy (Jun 28, 2019)

Thanks.

I've found out what I need to know.


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## Panina (Jun 28, 2019)

Bottom line in almost everything one buys, do your research, understand if what you are buying will work for you and if you can afford it, if you don’t you only have yourself to blame.  Most things we buy have a return policy some a few days, others longer.  There are rescinding periods for the timeshares return. 

As far as older Associations and resorts having problems, as an owner you can get involved and volunteer, complaining doesn’t fix anything.  Letting everyone out of their obligations just hurts the timeshares further.​
Timeshares have been a wonderful part of my life and that is with me buying my first timeshare from a developer. 

When I am done with my timeshares, I can always give them away.  Yes it can take some time, but doable if you are persistant with your ads.

I understand that everyone can’t feel as good about timesharing as me but as I can’t change your mind, you will not change mine. 

I look at Tug as a place I can share my successes and bumps.  Today the advice is good, tomorrow yes it can be different but that is with any issue.


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## Gypsy65 (Jun 28, 2019)

bluehende said:


> Did you pay him every dollar you collected for his labor?  Or did you add a bit?



I had a somewhat different approach
I never told any of my guys what I was going to pay them. I let them tell me what they needed to make for the type of work we offered

We were in the contracting business doing for the most part multi million dollar homes, not all but many and that was the clientele I chased since they were the ones who could afford and pay for the upper end services we offered

We received a price list from each crew and then I marked up our % on top of that
They made what they wanted and so did we

We as a people need to throw $$ into the “ system “. If not the world would collapse 
If everyone bought $1 timeshares then there would not be these nice resorts we all go to. Rather they would be distressed properties like a closed amusement park 

We need billionaires to buy yachts so the builders have jobs and just that one segment of revenue trickles down from the top all the way to the server at your favorite eating establishment   

The economy only works when people spend


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## DrQ (Jun 29, 2019)

Just attended a free dinner at Red Lobster with an exit group.

*The presentation: *I was served with a default judgment. *Me:* Why didn't you respond to the original summons?
*The presentation:* I was "forced" to accept my deceased parent Timeshare. *Me:* Really ... who was the Executor? Did they hold a gun to your head?

I pointed out that a Timeshare could not sue for anticipatory damages, only for the current year MF, not in perpetuity.

We got out quickly.


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## Grammarhero (Jun 30, 2019)

If you are not a lawyer, I am impressed with your legal knowledge.

I intentionally didn’t put my wife’s name on the TS, nor will I put my children’s name.  I don’t care what benefits they get as an owner, vice a guest certificate.  My TS will die with me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## simpsontruckdriver (Jul 14, 2019)

I found this online about Wesley Financial. Guess what? SCAM! Their former name (look up here on TUG) is VO Group. All the managers and owners were thrown in prison, except the spokesman. Other sites say they "cleaned up their act", but "once a turd, always a turd". It sounds like (even from 2015) they say no deal means no fees, but they will take the case, then say they need $xxx.xx for something.

TS


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## taffy19 (Jul 14, 2019)

DrQ said:


> Just attended a free dinner at Red Lobster with an exit group.
> 
> *The presentation: *I was served with a default judgment. *Me:* Why didn't you respond to the original summons?
> *The presentation:* I was "forced" to accept my deceased parent Timeshare. *Me:* Really ... who was the Executor? Did they hold a gun to your head?
> ...


We received a very slick, glossy invitation in the mail to have lunch somewhere on July 16th, 17th or 18th in Southern California in a local restaurant with photos of a meal that could be at the Claim Jumper or a similar type restaurant in Los Angeles or Orange County.  We live on the border of both.

It sounds like an exit company too by Square One Development Group in St. Louis, MO.  Is that the same group as yours?

I decided not to call because we went to one many years ago and it was awful the lies they were telling people but many stayed to have a one to one meeting afterwards.  They were mostly senior people like us.

Here is part of the text:

_“Let’s be honest...

You have Three Choices with your Current Timeshare.

1. Do nothing and keep paying for something you’re not using or not utilizing.

2. Optimize your timeshare ownership and maximize your investment.

3. Exit gracefully and painlessly from your contract regardless of your situation._

_RECEIVE A $50 GIFT CARD - just for coming to see us in your area!”

It gives a phone number to call by July 15th.

Then it states that:

“We do not buy, sell, rent or list timeshares.  It’s first come, first serve, and these event reservations fill up very quickly.  Bring your spouse or deed co-owner.
_
Underneath reads that it is_ “Subject to terms and conditions.”_

Are they all out in force because they know that their fraudulent exit scheme is coming to an end soon because the major timeshare developers are working on their own exit plan?

I wished I knew what restaurant it was so we could go there and have lunch while listening to their spiel but it will most likely be in a separate room.  I don’t want to call and be on a sucker’s list to receive more mailings or calls.


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## OldGuy (Jul 14, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> the major timeshare developers are working on their own exit plan?



Serious?


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## OldGuy (Jul 14, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> Square One Development Group



14 years in business and only two, resolved, BBB complaints.

Not many timeshare developers/sellers can say that.


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## WVBaker (Jul 14, 2019)

https://www.arda.org/advisories/

The American Resort Development Association (ARDA) and the Resort Owner’s Coalition (ARDAROC) have been made aware of fraudulent activity by a group called Square One Group claiming to be an ARDA member.


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## DrQ (Jul 20, 2019)

taffy19 said:


> We received a very slick, glossy invitation in the mail to have lunch somewhere on July 16th, 17th or 18th in Southern California in a local restaurant with photos of a meal that could be at the Claim Jumper or a similar type restaurant in Los Angeles or Orange County.  We live on the border of both.
> 
> It sounds like an exit company too by Square One Development Group in St. Louis, MO.  Is that the same group as yours?
> ...
> ...


No, the outfit with which we were dealing was out of Branson.

During the meeting they asked: "Do you know why we are located in Branson?" I had to stifle my response: Because the Missouri legislature turns a blind eye to your activities?


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## taffy19 (Jul 20, 2019)

DrQ said:


> No, the outfit with which we were dealing was out of Branson.
> 
> During the meeting they asked: "Do you know why we are located in Branson?" I had to stifle my response: Because the Missouri legislature turns a blind eye to your activities?


I wonder how they answered that?  At our meeting, many years ago, I challenged them too but they had a reply for everything and most people stayed afterwards.

We were told to bring our deeds or paperwork with us.  i believe that they wanted us to sign a power of attorney.  They may have been the same terms here?

People will come for a free meal and a gift card to be scammed again.


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## OldGuy (Jul 20, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> https://www.arda.org/advisories/
> 
> The American Resort Development Association (ARDA) and the Resort Owner’s Coalition (ARDAROC) have been made aware of fraudulent activity by a group called Square One Group claiming to be an ARDA member.



It's interesting that Square One Group, Inc.'s facebook page contains several warnings about timeshare resale scams, including one from ARDA.

https://www.facebook.com/squareonehelp/

I confuse easy and the fact that there is a Square One Group, Inc. and a Square One Development Group, Inc. has me confused.

I checked with the Missouri SOS, and there is no Square One Group, Inc. registered in Missouri, yet here is their address on that facebook page:
1610 Des Peres Rd.
63131 St. Louis

There is a Square One Development Group, Inc. registered in Missouri, and here's the address on that registration:
1610 Des Peres Road
Suite 150
Saint Louis, MO 63131

Hmmm!


----------



## WVBaker (Jul 20, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> It's interesting that Square One Group, Inc.'s facebook page contains several warnings about timeshare resale scams, including one from ARDA.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/squareonehelp/
> 
> ...



Tis seem a bit perplexing Captain.


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## bogey21 (Jul 20, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> I had a somewhat different approach
> I never told any of my guys what I was going to pay them. I let them tell me what they needed to make for the type of work we offered
> 
> We were in the contracting business doing for the most part multi million dollar homes, not all but many and that was the clientele I chased since they were the ones who could afford and pay for the upper end services we offered
> ...



Ingenious.  I love innovative ways of doing things...

George


----------



## MissyBank (Aug 10, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> 14 years in business and only two, resolved, BBB complaints.
> 
> Not many timeshare developers/sellers can say that.




from other posts here. 
Square one group website online only since 2018.
very little online presence, facebook, etc.
No about us listing principles on their website.
No info on ownership anywhere online.
Domains, corp registration, everything, a secret.
Being investigated in multiple states.
I wouldn't say this is great.


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## MissyBank (Aug 10, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> Tis seem a bit perplexing Captain.


Nor perplexing at all.
100% scam.
They are like vermin going from city to city robbing senior citizens.
And they finance this scam by ushering seniors into a back room and filling out multiple credit card applications.
AVOID


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## OldGuy (Aug 10, 2019)

MissyBank said:


> Nor perplexing at all.
> 100% scam.
> They are like vermin going from city to city robbing senior citizens.
> And they finance this scam by ushering seniors into a back room and filling out multiple credit card applications.
> AVOID



Doing an investigation?  Got a personal involvement?

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?members/missybank.118314/


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## MissyBank (Aug 10, 2019)

Yes sir. 
Started as an investigation into credit card fraud.


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## OldGuy (Aug 10, 2019)

MissyBank said:


> Yes sir.
> Started as an investigation into credit card fraud.



Personal or law enforcement?


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## OldGuy (Aug 10, 2019)

*Alert

In May 2019, Better Business Bureau (BBB) was informed that Square One Development Group, Inc. was displaying BBB's seal and inaccurate A+ BBB Rating in its marketing materials.   The business is not a BBB Accredited Business and does not maintain an A+ Rating.  Consequently, BBB requested that Square One Development Group, Inc. cease and desist. This request also was made previously in December 2018 at which time the company indicated it would cease misrepresenting its association with BBB.


Square One Development Group, Inc. has again assured BBB it will no longer use BBB's seal or post an inaccurate rating.

https://www.bbb.org/us/mo/des-peres...are-one-development-group-inc-0734-1000010028*


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## ecwinch (Aug 10, 2019)

The answer is an obvious one - even for Captain's. 

Dust-off an old corporate shell you created years and years ago to suggest longevity and to promote legitimacy. 18+ years in operation and no BBB complaints is easy to do if you are not doing anything.

 I mean, come one - what in the name Square One Development Group suggests they were originally formed to provide timeshare exit/relief options.

When that one starts accumulating a bad reputation, then you shut it down, and dust off another one. We can see from the lawsuits the developers have filed against these companies that they are just boiler-room operations, and the principles either spun off from one where they worked or just spin up a new entity.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 10, 2019)

I hear these commercials on the radio. They often incorrectly state that your heirs will be stuck with your timeshare after you are gone. They claim a 100% money back guarantee, but we know that isn't worth the paper it is written on.


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## OldGuy (Aug 10, 2019)

Well, dangit, find a nice tree and I'll go round up LouAnn.



*I can't blame anyone but the developers when some one walks away from their timeshare obligation.*

Bill


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## OldGuy (Aug 11, 2019)

& why do people _resort _to exit companies, you ask?  From one of the three complaints against Square One at the BBB:

*" . . .  A very stupid mistake on my part. Being 85 years old may have something to do with it . . . .  the Resort's management company would absolutely not negotiate or talk to a lawyer about getting me out of my obligations . .  . . Since my resort has told me that they will absolutely not negotiate, there will  be a foreclosure, and I will be obligated to continue paying the monthly $485 a month, or face a law suit if I don't pay.  And my credit score would go down the drain."*


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## greenmonster (Aug 11, 2019)

who knows what if TS companies also own exit companies.... they keep trying to take all our hard earned monies. Thank God for this site....


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## TUGBrian (Oct 25, 2019)

pretty huge news to see the BBB has suspended Wesley Financial:



> "On 10/01/2019 this company's BBB Accreditation was suspended due to engaging in activities reflecting poorly on the BBB or its members."




https://www.bbb.org/us/tn/franklin/...ates/wesley-financial-group-llc-0573-37070239


certainly hope to see more of this as so many of these outfits advertise/promote they are "A+ rated with the BBB" etc.


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## Grammarhero (Oct 26, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> pretty huge news to see the BBB has suspended Wesley Financial:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wouldn’t be surprised if those customer reviews are fake.  I was able to take a screenshot giving more info.


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## bogey21 (Oct 26, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I intentionally didn’t put my wife’s name on the TS, nor will I put my children’s name.  I don’t care what benefits they get as an owner, vice a guest certificate.  My TS will die with me.



Makes sense to me...

George


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## bogey21 (Oct 26, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> *" . . .  A very stupid mistake on my part. Being 85 years old may have something to do with it . . . .  the Resort's management company would absolutely not negotiate or talk to a lawyer about getting me out of my obligations . .  . . Since my resort has told me that they will absolutely not negotiate, there will  be a foreclosure, and I will be obligated to continue paying the monthly $485 a month, or face a law suit if I don't pay.  And my credit score would go down the drain."*



Why anyone 85 (I'm 84½) gives a damn is beyond me...

George


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