# Ovation



## ronparise

Introducing Ovation by Wyndham

While we hope you and your family continue to experience years of travel memories with us, we understand that isn’t always possible. Shouldn’t those years of unforgettable experiences be applauded?

We’re proud to introduce Ovation by Wyndham — a new program offering credible options for owners who are ready to transition to the next phase of their travel needs.


**************************************************************************************************************************



just got this in an email from wyndham


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Admin edit: Adding the phone number mentioned in the thread to call to inquire if your week/ownership qualifies:  855-312-9040


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## scootr5

Marketing apparently can't settle on a name - pathways, limited edition, and now ovation.

At least it's something.


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## wilson14

ronparise said:


> Introducing Ovation by Wyndham
> 
> While we hope you and your family continue to experience years of travel memories with us, we understand that isn’t always possible. Shouldn’t those years of unforgettable experiences be applauded?
> 
> We’re proud to introduce Ovation by Wyndham — a new program offering credible options for owners who are ready to transition to the next phase of their travel needs.
> 
> 
> **************************************************************************************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> just got this in an email from wyndham




What does this exactly mean for owners?


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## alexadeparis

On the owner's website after you click thru the email:

Ovation by Wyndham
Ovation by Wyndham banner

Ovation by Wyndham is a program that applauds owners who've had years of unforgettable travel memories but whose needs and conditions are no longer the same. These moments have served as the vacation screenplay to your life.

Act I: It was the squeals from your child during that sleigh ride through the snow-capped mountains.
Act II: The family excursion in Hawaii that took “fish out of water” and made all of you ocean explorers.
Act III: Rhythms of jazz still echo in memory as you remember that Mardi Gras trip for two in the Bayou.

We were there with you through all those moments.

Now, Ovation by Wyndham is that final act – allowing us to still be there for you as the first choice in taking that final bow from vacation ownership. This program provides assistance to owners whose lifestyle or vacation preferences have changed and are seeking safe and viable options to transition out of their ownership. Offers available are relative to unique owner needs and qualifications, and may also vary based upon specific program objectives.

Don’t be overwhelmed and frustrated by fraudulent companies and individuals who claim to understand that change. You deserve the same level of credibility in closing this chapter of your life as when you opened it. Navigating through the numerous channels out there to find the best solution to help you exit your ownership can be a daunting task.With Ovation by Wyndham, we’re here to help you gracefully transition to the next phase of your life — wherever that may take you.
Learn about the options available to you by selecting the button below. Please choose “Ovation by Wyndham” as your reason for contact.
Access Ovation Request Form
Thank you and you’re always welcome.



It then takes you to a form with your info prefilled and then I guess they call you. I didn't click it since I want to keep my unit. Who wants to be the first to try it.


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## alexadeparis

Sounds like they may possibly negotiate a deed back. Probably in response to the Viking Ships, PCCs, etc. if that is the intent, then I really think that's great. They get free inventory for the CWA program, which means more resorts can be added to CWA with no buildout. Could be a win-win for consumers and Wyndham. It's a good product, but the way they currently sell it is despicable sometimes. They would probably sell MORE product if they actually taught people how to use it and were lower pressure, instead of pricks.


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## wilson14

alexadeparis said:


> On the owner's website after you click thru the email:
> 
> Ovation by Wyndham
> Ovation by Wyndham banner
> 
> Ovation by Wyndham is a program that applauds owners who've had years of unforgettable travel memories but whose needs and conditions are no longer the same. These moments have served as the vacation screenplay to your life.
> 
> Act I: It was the squeals from your child during that sleigh ride through the snow-capped mountains.
> Act II: The family excursion in Hawaii that took “fish out of water” and made all of you ocean explorers.
> Act III: Rhythms of jazz still echo in memory as you remember that Mardi Gras trip for two in the Bayou.
> 
> We were there with you through all those moments.
> 
> Now, Ovation by Wyndham is that final act – allowing us to still be there for you as the first choice in taking that final bow from vacation ownership. This program provides assistance to owners whose lifestyle or vacation preferences have changed and are seeking safe and viable options to transition out of their ownership. Offers available are relative to unique owner needs and qualifications, and may also vary based upon specific program objectives.
> 
> Don’t be overwhelmed and frustrated by fraudulent companies and individuals who claim to understand that change. You deserve the same level of credibility in closing this chapter of your life as when you opened it. Navigating through the numerous channels out there to find the best solution to help you exit your ownership can be a daunting task.With Ovation by Wyndham, we’re here to help you gracefully transition to the next phase of your life — wherever that may take you.
> Learn about the options available to you by selecting the button below. Please choose “Ovation by Wyndham” as your reason for contact.
> Access Ovation Request Form
> Thank you and you’re always welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> It then takes you to a form with your info prefilled and then I guess they call you. I didn't click it since I want to keep my unit. Who wants to be the first to try it.



Hmm...I'm curious about this. I have thought about getting out of my timeshare before but never took any action, as I know I will loose too much money by selling on eBay, etc.


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## bigeyes1

*I Took The Bait*

I sent off an email asking for more information.  Not that I want to sell (yet) but I'm curious.


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## dcdowden

I sent in a request for info on Ovation as well. Sounds like the offer must depend on what you own, so they can't explain it simply to all owners at the same time. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## comicbookman

bigeyes1 said:


> I sent off an email asking for more information.  Not that I want to sell (yet) but I'm curious.



I did the same.


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## Rent_Share

alexadeparis said:


> They get free inventory for the CWA program, which means more resorts can be added to CWA with no buildout. Could be a win-win for consumers and Wyndham. It's a good product, but the way they currently sell it is despicable sometimes. They would probably sell MORE product if they actually taught people how to use it and were lower pressure, instead of P's.



The  P's sent it to me and I don't own anything that fits into CWA


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## JimMIA

scootr5 said:


> Marketing apparently can't settle on a name - pathways, limited edition, and now ovation.
> 
> At least it's something.


Next is Standing O...and then Encore!  

And then...?


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## Bigrob

alexadeparis said:


> You deserve the same level of credibility in closing this chapter of your life as when you opened it. .



Am I the only one who finds this statement utterly ludicrous?


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## alexadeparis

Bigrob said:


> Am I the only one who finds this statement utterly ludicrous?



Yes. Considering that someone who bought from the developer was probably lied to. Some young person with a marketing degree wordsmithed that one.


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## alexadeparis

Rent_Share said:


> The  P's sent it to me and I don't own anything that fits into CWA



I was just thinking that this may be a way for them to get inventory to expand CWA to resorts that it doesn't currently have. If they are pushing this towards people at "the end of life" that would presume that those deeds would be older CWP resorts or maybe even fixed weeks at Heritage resorts (or whatever they call them) I.e. Some of the oldest resorts in the system.


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## LLW

wilson14 said:


> Hmm...I'm curious about this. I have thought about getting out of my timeshare before but never took any action, as *I know I will loose too much money by selling on eBay, etc.*



Worldmark owners have reported on wmowners.com that Wyndham was offering them less than the current resale market rate.


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## JudyS

_"You deserve the same level of credibility in closing this chapter of your life as when you opened it."_



Bigrob said:


> Am I the only one who finds this statement utterly ludicrous?



Maybe Wyndham means, "We gave you a low level of credibility when you bought, and we're going to give you a low level of credibility now." After all, the same level of credibility doesn't necessarily mean a high level of credibility.


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## LLW

alexadeparis said:


> I was just thinking that this may be a way for them to get inventory to expand CWA to resorts that it doesn't currently have. If they are pushing this towards people at "the end of life" that would presume that those deeds would be older CWP resorts or maybe even fixed weeks at Heritage resorts (or whatever they call them) I.e. Some of the oldest resorts in the system.



They are pushing this to Worldmark owners also, where there is no home resort. But it sounds like they are also starting with the owners who have owned for the longest time. Probably because those people bought at lower prices than the newer owners, and might not find their offering price as ludicrous, or so they think.


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## vacationhopeful

IMHO --- this is another form of a "scam" on our elderly. Only the elderly are a "protected class".

I hope some aggressive state protection agency figures this out. Even if an elderly owner only paid $45,000 for their VIP membership, Wyndham is now selling that for $150,000+. And what is a famous TUG line, all timeshares are USED.

And no, Wyndham is just using this to get CHEAP (like almost free) inventory to re-sell; much cheaper than building. And Wyndham is NOT HOLDING this, it will be re-acquired on day 1 and sold on day 2 ... just like the Fixed Week deeds are taken from their managed HOAs for $1. 

Wyndham will do everything to DEPRESS the resale "product" - it keeps their cost low. 

What their last program was, buying back only the developer brought points - but the owner had to surrender ALL their deeds. 

Ethical company; next phrase of our owners life cycle; doing the right thing; final bow.... catch phrases.

Sorry, I am not good on the computer editing or cut in paste --- I am sure it would make a great post, to use their own words from ads and press releases to highlight the "sales" tag lines.


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## comicbookman

vacationhopeful said:


> IMHO --- this is another form of a "scam" on our elderly. Only the elderly are a "protected class".
> 
> I hope some aggressive state protection agency figures this out. Even if an elderly owner only paid $45,000 for their VIP membership, Wyndham is now selling that for $150,000+. And what is a famous TUG line, all timeshares are USED.
> 
> And no, Wyndham is just using this to get CHEAP (like almost free) inventory to re-sell; much cheaper than building. And Wyndham is NOT HOLDING this, it will be re-acquired on day 1 and sold on day 2 ... just like the Fixed Week deeds are taken from their managed HOAs for $1.
> 
> Wyndham will do everything to DEPRESS the resale "product" - it keeps their cost low.
> 
> What their last program was, buying back only the developer brought points - but the owner had to surrender ALL their deeds.
> 
> Ethical company; next phrase of our owners life cycle; doing the right thing; final bow.... catch phrases.
> 
> Sorry, I am not good on the computer editing or cut in paste --- I am sure it would make a great post, to use their own words from ads and press releases to highlight the "sales" tag lines.



Linda,

Not sure why you are so fired up.  Many on Tug have requested that Wyndham and the other big players institute some type of take back program for deeds that are no longer wanted.  Most have proposed taking the deed back without Wyndham paying anything.  Since the resale price on most Wyndham deeds is pretty much $0, I would think anything that costs the current owner no more than the closing cost would be a deal.  It would also be good for the remaining owners, since Wyndham would then be on the hook for MF.  Even if it costs 1 years maintenance, it would not be a terrible deal for most folks.  Yes it would be an incredible deal for Wyndham, but I see it as a win all the way around.  The big variables will be whether you have to surrender all of your deeds and if resale deeds can be surrendered as well.


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## vacationhopeful

Sorry if I seem "fired up" ... but there are other timeshare companies which have "Waitlists" and fixed commission schedules to re-sale the TS products of owners who want OUT. 

Wyndham is very much the "GIVE IT to us" player in the pack. It is the ONE SIDED deal. 

Yes, there are fixed weeks or seasons which have low to negative value ... but Wyndham points are not color coded to seasons. And yes, converted fixed weeks SHOULD be priced more according to the limiting underlying deed than a UDI deed. And higher demand resorts verses lower demand (whether it is the location, the resort's desirability, or cost of MFs) .. could reflect Wyndham's offer.

The people posting Wyndham points on the Bargain Deal section KNOW those points will be gone out of their name to another family  ... those owners are "playing it forward" to other families. 

But you can also argue, Wyndham has to balance the good (UDI Points with lower MFs) to the ALL (low & poor ratio of Pts to MFs) ... Wyndham is NOT as concerned with educating the buyer - they just ONLY OFFER one deal to buyers.


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## comicbookman

vacationhopeful said:


> Sorry if I seem "fired up" ... but there are other timeshare companies which have "Waitlists" and fixed commission schedules to re-sale the TS products of owners who want OUT.
> 
> Wyndham is very much the "GIVE IT to us" player in the pack. It is the ONE SIDED deal.
> 
> Yes, there are fixed weeks or seasons which have low to negative value ... but Wyndham points are not color coded to seasons. And yes, converted fixed weeks SHOULD be priced more according to the limiting underlying deed than a UDI deed. And higher demand resorts verses lower demand (whether it is the location, the resort's desirability, or cost of MFs) .. could reflect Wyndham's offer.
> 
> The people posting Wyndham points on the Bargain Deal section KNOW those points will be gone out of their name to another family  ... those owners are "playing it forward" to other families.
> 
> But you can also argue, Wyndham has to balance the good (UDI Points with lower MFs) to the ALL (low & poor ratio of Pts to MFs) ... Wyndham is NOT as concerned with educating the buyer - they just ONLY OFFER one deal to buyers.



Of course it is a one sided deal.  I would expect nothing more from Wyndham.  I also agree that the deeds should be "played forward" whenever possible.  The reality is that only works sometimes.  (I have 2 contracts on bargain deals right now, and only one is getting any interest)  The reality is there are plenty of Wyndham contracts that are not easily or cheaply disposed of.  That is why Viking ship operators are so successful.  Wyndham appears to be doing exactly what a for profit company should be doing, and what Tuggers have loudly complained they should be doing with regards to unwanted deeds.

Also, I don't see that it matters whether they hold the deeds, or turn them over (other than the whole slimy salesperson thing).  As long as they go to someone who pays the MF, the community gains.

This should not be construed as a general pro-Wyndham attitude on my part.  I got duped into a large dev purchase years ago and have no love for Wyndham sales.  (or the online system) I do however enjoy the resorts, and with the help of Tug and some resale purchases have used the heck out of the system since then.


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## wilson14

I have been on the phone for 10 minutes getting transferred around. It seems like nobody at Wyndham even knows about this program.


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## ronparise

Until I know differently Im going to look at it this way:   Wyndham is the buyer of last resort.   

Keep your ownership or sell it on the secondary market, or arrange a private sale. but if you dont want that hassle, Wyndham will take it back

A program like this can offer several good things

1)  support of the secondary market (better prices)
2) no more PCCs taking advantage of Wyndham owners 
3) no more Wyndham deeds stuck on Viking ships, 
4) no more defaults, or "walkaways"
5) HOAs aways get paid  (no more bad debt line in the budget)
6) put the mega renters out of business

The only people hurt by this will be people like me that buy this stuff  cheap to fuel a rental  business or a resale business.  If prices go up it will no longer make sense to do what I do. 


At the last meeting of the Fairshare Trust Geoff Richards speaking from the podium telegraphed this new program whan he said  " we know we have to do something with the secondary market"

Roughly half of Wyndham Worldwide's  business is timeshares.  and most of that business is sales. Management income is incidental.  So Wyndham always needs to be developing new product to sell.  And as we know they have an "asset light" approach to growth. Their cost of goods sold has been about 16%, and they are no longer tying up company money in long term development projects.   Buying back their own inventory  fits nicely into a strategy like that

If they sell for 20 cents a point  they can pay as much as 3 cents a point without violating their business plan.  making for another nice income stream

You can argue all day that folks that paid full developer prices are getting screwed, but a program like this can be  a whole lot better for them than where they are today. where their only choices, if they want out are default,  pccs or give it away to someone like me.


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## comicbookman

What Ron said.


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## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> Until I know differently Im going to look at it this way:   Wyndham is the buyer of last resort.
> 
> Keep your ownership or sell it on the secondary market, or arrange a private sale. but if you dont want that hassle, Wyndham will take it back
> 
> A program like this can offer several good things
> 
> 1)  support of the secondary market (better prices)
> 2) no more PCCs taking advantage of Wyndham owners
> 3) no more Wyndham deeds stuck on Viking ships,
> 4) no more defaults, or "walkaways"
> 5) HOAs aways get paid  (no more bad debt line in the budget)
> 6) put the mega renters out of business
> 
> The only people hurt by this will be people like me that buy this stuff  cheap to fuel a rental  business or a resale business.  If prices go up it will no longer make sense to do what I do.
> 
> 
> At the last meeting of the Fairshare Trust Geoff Richards speaking from the podium telegraphed this new program whan he said  " we know we have to do something with the secondary market"
> 
> Roughly half of Wyndham Worldwide's  business is timeshares.  and most of that business is sales. Management income is incidental.  So Wyndham always needs to be developing new product to sell.  And as we know they have an "asset light" approach to growth. Their cost of goods sold has been about 16%, and they are no longer tying up company money in long term development projects.   Buying back their own inventory  fits nicely into a strategy like that
> 
> If they sell for 20 cents a point  they can pay as much as 3 cents a point without violating their business plan.  making for another nice income stream
> 
> You can argue all day that folks that paid full developer prices are getting screwed, but a program like this can be  a whole lot better for them than where they are today. where their only choices, if they want out are default,  pccs or give it away to someone like me.



I spoke to someone today who did reach someone in regards to the current program and was told only some of what he has was eligible. And for the rest he would not be paid, but he could give it back to Wyndham and they wouldn't charge him anything. So, not as good as the Limited Edition offer we heard of before, which may now be off the table?

Until we hear that they are actually making offers up to 3 cents a point, I agree with your initial statement - that Wyndham is the buyer of last "resort" (pun intended Ron?) And until they become the first place to turn, rather than the last, I don't think they will materially address the "secondary market" problem Geoff alluded to.

Ahhh, the never-ending balancing act... am I a buyer or seller... will they implement Voyager making me want to sell, or implement a real buy-back program, eliminating supply and driving up resale values? Guess wrong and you're either on the outside looking in (bad) or stuck with a bunch of high MF timeshares you can't get rid of (worse).


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## Rent_Share

By setting a "strike resale price" of 3 cents a point aren't they establishing a prima facie case, that what they selling in the showroom, is worthless ?

 Currently they can argue the resale market is inefficient, but once the developer starts playing, they set the bottom/


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## JudyS

LLW said:


> They are pushing this to Worldmark owners also, where there is no home resort. But it sounds like they are also starting with the owners who have owned for the longest time. Probably because those people bought at lower prices than the newer owners, and might not find their offering price as ludicrous, or so they think.


I received this Ovation email, and I have only been a Worldmark owner for a year. I purchase resale. No idea why they think I might want out (although I haven't actually booked anything yet with my Worldmark credits -- maybe that's the reason.)


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## comicbookman

Rent_Share said:


> By setting a "strike resale price" of 3 cents a point aren't they establishing a prima facie case, that what they selling in the showroom, is worthless ?
> 
> Currently they can argue the resale market is inefficient, but once the developer starts playing, they set the bottom/



Not really.  A used car lot buys the cars at less than they sell them.  All they are setting is a wholesale rate.  They just have to make it easier to sell to them at 3 cents than to me or you at 3 cents.


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## ronparise

Rent_Share said:


> By setting a "strike resale price" of 3 cents a point aren't they establishing a prima facie case, that what they selling in the showroom, is worthless ?
> 
> Currently they can argue the resale market is inefficient, but once the developer starts playing, they set the bottom/



I don't know that wyndham sees 3 cents as the right price.  That number was pulled out of my backside, but it makes sense to me and it is certainly not the bottom of anything.  I own a lot of wyndham points that I bought at the bottom and my average price was less than 1/4 penny a point.  Three cents would be shooting the moon from where I sit. 

The fact is 3 cents is  16% of 20 and that's what they sell for at the resorts and 16% is what wyndham tells Wall Street is their cost of goods sold ie their development cost, is. 

Take 16% to worldmark and you get a 48 cent per credit resale target which is about what brokers sell this suff for today

Back to Wyndham.   3 cents is my dream... You may see this as a bottom . As a seller I see it as so high as to be almost unbelievable.  And high enough that it will put me out of business......that's a good thing. No?


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## jebloomquist

I would not consider selling my points, at this time, but at 3 cents per point, I would get back about $75,000 more than what I spent on them originally. And, this includes spending $40,000 on my first of three developer purchase. Ouch.

I can't match Ron's 1/4 cent per point, but outside of developer purchases, my average cost per point has been about 3/4 of a cent.

Jim


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## LLW

JudyS said:


> I received this Ovation email, and I have only been a Worldmark owner for a year. I purchase resale. No idea why they think I might want out (although I haven't actually booked anything yet with my Worldmark credits -- maybe that's the reason.)



The Ovation email is in the monthly electronic newsletter ("Pulse" or "Insider") that all owners on record receive (although their mailing list is inaccurate - many owners don't receive it, after multiple attempts to correct WM's records). I don't know if you are the targeted audience if you haven't received any phone calls. Many WMO members have reported getting phone calls (offers to buy their accounts) in the last few months, although the "Ovation" name is so new that even many WM insiders had not heard of it (Owner Care sounded quite non-plussed about it when I called them about something else).

I have an account that has an old account number (targeted). I don't think they know that I bought it resale. The phone calls from the one person "from Worldmark regarding your Vacation Ownership" are relentless. I must have received about eight messages in the last few days, and that has been when we haven't returned their messages. The usual sales calls stop after 1 or 2 messages.


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## craigrdavis

Interested if anyone has heard back from Wyndham regarding this program and gotten any "official info" on their buy back program.

Craig
Wyndham Resale Owner since 2007


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## Conan

I started with Limited Edition (now called Ovation) in December. For me it's a two-step process:

Step 1, deeding my resale points back to Wyndham for no consideration, under what they call the Cap Program. Title Services took 2 months to accomplish that and I'm now rid of those points.

Step 2, deeding my non-resale points back to Wyndham in exchange for use of that number of points, per year, for three years, maintenance-free and dues-free.  Strictly speaking Step 2 is the Limited Edition Program, and Cap Program + Limited Edition Program = Ovation. 

That's the only offer I'm aware of - - I haven't heard anything about surrendering points for cash. Maybe points for cash is something that's been invented in this thread purely as a hypothetical? 

I've now begun the step 2 process and I've been issued a case number. I'm supposed to be getting a letter from the fellow in charge of the program in a week or so.  I have his name and direct dial number (he confirmed to me that Limited Edition is part of Ovation) but I won't post it here, since new cases must be started with Owner Assistance anyway before he can take it up.

As far as timing goes, I continue to pay my maintenance fees monthly. (These have been adjusted downward since I no longer own my resale points.)  When the Limited Edition/Ovation process finishes (meaning that title services issues the deed, I sign and send back, and title services accepts it), I'll be done paying maintenance and the three-year clock will start for the Limited Edition/Ovation program.

Meanwhile I can book a reservation with my remaining points in the usual manner, but it needs to be for a vacation within the next month or so, since the day they receive my Limited Edition deed all pending bookings will vanish. But if I can fit that final points vacation in, I can use all of my remaining 2015 points for it even though I'm only a couple of months into paying my calendar year 2015 maintenance fees.


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## Conan

wilson14 said:


> I have been on the phone for 10 minutes getting transferred around. It seems like nobody at Wyndham even knows about this program.



Call Owner Services and tell them you're interested in the Limited Edition program.  They've recently been trained in that program, but nobody's told them it's now called Ovation.


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## Conan

Update on terminology:

Wyndham may be willing to accept a deedback of your _resale points_ but they won't give you anything for them.  They call that the _CAP Program_.

Wyndham is also willing to accept a deedback of _points bought from them_ but only from 100 or so selected locations, in exchange for three years' free use. They call that the _Limited Edition Program_.

If you own some points bought resale and other points bought from Wyndham in those 100 or so locations, they require you to get rid of all your resale points via CAP before they will do the Limited Edition acquisition of your remaining points.

_Ovation_ is the name Wyndham gives to the combined CAP and Limited Edition programs, but most people at Owner Services don't know that. So if you're calling you should tell them you're interested in the CAP and/or Limited Edition program.


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## ausman

Conan said:


> Wyndham is also willing to accept a deedback of _points bought from them_ but only from 100 or so selected locations, in exchange for three years' free use.



Anyone have a list of the 100 or so locations they can post or email me.?


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## Conan

basham said:


> Anyone have a list of the 100 or so locations they can post or email me.?



They're listed on the back page of the Limited Edition brochure, which I have.

If you would like to name the properties you're curious about I can look them up. Either here, publicly, or by private message if you prefer.


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## MULTIZ321

Conan said:


> They're listed on the back page of the Limited Edition brochure, which I have.
> 
> If you would like to name the properties you're curious about I can look them up. Either here, publicly, or by private message if you prefer.



Hi Conan,

That's a generous offer. If you have the ability to post them publicly on Tug, I'm sure many would appreciate seeing that list.


Best regards,

Richard


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## Rent_Share

MULTIZ321 said:


> Hi Conan,
> 
> That's a generous offer. If you have the ability to post them publicly on Tug, I'm sure many would appreciate seeing that list.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Richard


 
Scan and file attachment would be the easiest for you


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## Conan

Rent_Share said:


> Scan and file attachment would be the easiest for you



OK, here's the same document scanned .jpg and .pdf

http://1drv.ms/1ALYpkH

http://1drv.ms/1vPHqhd


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## wilson14

Are Club Wyndham Access owners eligible for the Limited Edition program?


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## Hobo1

*There is/was Cash for Points*



Conan said:


> I started with Limited Edition (now called Ovation) in December. For me it's a two-step process:
> 
> Step 1, deeding my resale points back to Wyndham for no consideration, under what they call the Cap Program. Title Services took 2 months to accomplish that and I'm now rid of those points.
> 
> Step 2, deeding my non-resale points back to Wyndham in exchange for use of that number of points, per year, for three years, maintenance-free and dues-free.  Strictly speaking Step 2 is the Limited Edition Program, and Cap Program + Limited Edition Program = Ovation.
> 
> That's the only offer I'm aware of - - I haven't heard anything about surrendering points for cash. Maybe points for cash is something that's been invented in this thread purely as a hypothetical?
> 
> I've now begun the step 2 process and I've been issued a case number. I'm supposed to be getting a letter from the fellow in charge of the program in a week or so.  I have his name and direct dial number (he confirmed to me that Limited Edition is part of Ovation) but I won't post it here, since new cases must be started with Owner Assistance anyway before he can take it up.
> 
> As far as timing goes, I continue to pay my maintenance fees monthly. (These have been adjusted downward since I no longer own my resale points.)  When the Limited Edition/Ovation process finishes (meaning that title services issues the deed, I sign and send back, and title services accepts it), I'll be done paying maintenance and the three-year clock will start for the Limited Edition/Ovation program.
> 
> Meanwhile I can book a reservation with my remaining points in the usual manner, but it needs to be for a vacation within the next month or so, since the day they receive my Limited Edition deed all pending bookings will vanish. But if I can fit that final points vacation in, I can use all of my remaining 2015 points for it even though I'm only a couple of months into paying my calendar year 2015 maintenance fees.



Several Wyndham owners, I was one and elected to cash out, received letters last year offering a deed sell back. The offer was a little under 2.5 per point but it made sense for us to get out of Wyndham. Some on this site were critical of our decision because we took a loss but it would have cost us much more not to take the offer. Wyndham is a good product but we learned, the hard way, we would rather rent from a Wyndham owner then be one.


----------



## roseamb60

*Gadf I Sucessfully am out Used Wyn Limited Edition*

Hello Wilson Call and ask them I got rid of my four VIP contracts just the other day I have the Wyn Limited Book   Iam glad that I am out  for good  My points at an older Legacy resort  had more then doubled i the last few years 
 My maintenance fees were as high as my property taxes t Iam glad that Wyn    decided to offer this program 
 As Ron mentioned perhaps the default will stop or decline significantly  Defaults  hurt  everyone cept Wyn Other companies have offered buybacks for years
 BTW  mentioned seniors being affected Er good and bad Iam not  offended at l some might be S ome seniors are passive most nto  Iam not I  am consumer advocate I fight for seniors but please do check on you friends loved ones if need be  very good point this person mde  Ihave been thourghly disgusted by Wydham's tactic at times high pressure etc but I did enjoy my 26 years of ownership JHMO Rose


----------



## roseamb60

*Lol my Bad*

Hi Meant to say in my last post that my maintenances fees at a Tennessee Legacy resort had doubled in the last four years Probably due to lots of deaults Rose


----------



## POHRN46

Unfortunately, so true!


----------



## TravLer21

*Ovations*

I just called the Wyndham number that was given to my wife (888-884-4321). After a wait of 15 minutes, I asked them for information on Ovations. I was told to call another number (855-312-9040) and spoke to a woman whom I asked for information regarding the program. She told me that you have to own at certain resorts (mine is one of them-National Harbor) and that the contract must be paid in full. Furthermore, they are offering nothing but release from paying maintenance fees. Nothing more according to this person. I told her that I had heard about points and monies being offered, but she plead ignorance. I'd like to hear from anyone who has accepted the terms of Ovations and what the terms were. Thanks.:annoyed:


----------



## TravLer21

*Limited edition*

I just re-called the 855-312-9040 and, instead of asking about Ovations, I asked about the "limited edition program". I spoke with a different person than previously who told me that the program was active. She is to email me a brochure (not yet received) about the program. There is NO CASH offer other than the three years of travel (don't have the details on that yet). Legal papers will not be sent unless there is verbal over-the-phone commitment.


----------



## Conan

TravLer21 said:


> I just re-called the 855-312-9040 and, instead of asking about Ovations, I asked about the "limited edition program". I spoke with a different person than previously who told me that the program was active. She is to email me a brochure (not yet received) about the program. There is NO CASH offer other than the three years of travel (don't have the details on that yet). Legal papers will not be sent unless there is verbal over-the-phone commitment.



See these threads for details about Limited Edition.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223967
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223660&page=2


----------



## TravLer21

*Deed back*

Only a few people have mentioned cash deals (cents per points), but has anyone actually gotten paid plus received the three years of points in exchange for the "deed"? I don't recall ever getting a letter about a buy back. Certainly the sales folks don't mention this at the "update" meetings.


----------



## comicbookman

TravLer21 said:


> Only a few people have mentioned cash deals (cents per points), but has anyone actually gotten paid plus received the three years of points in exchange for the "deed"? I don't recall ever getting a letter about a buy back. Certainly the sales folks don't mention this at the "update" meetings.



I think all the "cash" talk has been speculation.  I do not recall anyone actively checking on the program mentioning cash.


----------



## VivZ

I spoke with an Ovations rep yesterday. Wanting to get out of three resale contracts due to life changes and keep my developer point. I was told they will do a title search on the three contracts and if they come up clean, they will send me paperwork to have notarized and return to them at which time the deed back will be complete and I'm out. Given what I paid which was closing costs only on these contracts and the raising MFs, this will be a win for me if it actually works!!


----------



## ronparise

VivZ said:


> I spoke with an Ovations rep yesterday. Wanting to get out of three resale contracts due to life changes and keep my developer point. I was told they will do a title search on the three contracts and if they come up clean, they will send me paperwork to have notarized and return to them at which time the deed back will be complete and I'm out. Given what I paid which was closing costs only on these contracts and the raising MFs, this will be a win for me if it actually works!!



Pretty sure it will work. They have been pretty aggressive in buying or taking stuff back. Even to the point of advertising the program in the members magazine that we all get


----------



## theo

As an irrelevant and anecdotal aside from a guitar player, I find myself wondering if the manufacturers of *Ovation* acoustic guitars might take  offense at seeing their company brand name being "adopted" by the likes of Wyndham. It's surely safe to say that the name commonality won't *help* guitar sales, that much is for certain. :ignore:


----------



## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> Pretty sure it will work. They have been pretty aggressive in buying or taking stuff back. Even to the point of advertising the program in the members magazine that we all get



Way cheaper than building or foreclosing on unit/point/deeds ... increasing the stake CWA has in all the resorts - esp the CWP "desirable' resorts.

And glad they are NOW allowing owners to pick which deeds to give up .... verses the ALL or NOTHING stance.


----------



## puppymommo

VivZ said:


> I spoke with an Ovations rep yesterday. Wanting to get out of three resale contracts due to life changes and keep my developer point. I was told they will do a title search on the three contracts and if they come up clean, they will send me paperwork to have notarized and return to them at which time the deed back will be complete and I'm out. Given what I paid which was closing costs only on these contracts and the raising MFs, this will be a win for me if it actually works!!



I thought Ovation was only available for developer purchases. It's good to know it is available for resale purchases also.

I apologize if this has been noted earlier in this thread, I didn't read all of it.


----------



## Tye8len9

I contacted Wyndham on this wanted to get rid of some of my resale contracts, they told me that resale contracts can not be used for Ovation program. Has this changed?


----------



## VivZ

Tye8len9 said:


> I contacted Wyndham on this wanted to get rid of some of my resale contracts, they told me that resale contracts can not be used for Ovation program. Has this changed?



I received the paperwork via email today. Have to have the signatures notarized and then send back to Wyndham. They took all three which I bought resale. Might make a difference based on the locations???


----------



## vacationhopeful

VivZ said:


> I received the paperwork via email today. Have to have the signatures notarized and then send back to Wyndham. They took all three which I bought resale. Might make a difference based on the locations???



Programs evolve ... corporate might have looked at a point is a point to be resold and/or put into CWA access. Remember, the OLDER resorts were fixed weeks (not getting any program fees on those units and usage/occupancy might be way lower, too) ... taking the resale weeks might be a better WEEK than those gotten via foreclosure.

And absorbing closing costs by Wyndham? ... it is all mostly smoke & mirrors with in house transfers. Plus CWA is a certificate program - no recorded anything.


----------



## massvacationer

*Is ovation driving down the number of contracts available on the re-sale market ??*

Are the experts here on TUG noticing a decrease in the number of contracts available on the resale  market?  Higher prices?

I would imagine that Ovation will drive down the supply of resale contracts available though ebay and resale brokers....I would also guess it will push-up resale prices.

Are we noticing this yet?

I know the improved economy may also be driving prices higher, as well.  So, it may be hard to attribute anything to Ovation yet.


----------



## scootr5

massvacationer said:


> Are the experts here on TUG noticing a decrease in the number of contracts available on the resale  market?  Higher prices?
> 
> I would imagine that Ovation will drive down the supply of resale contracts available though ebay and resale brokers....I would also guess it will push-up resale prices.
> 
> Are we noticing this yet?
> 
> I know the improved economy may also be driving prices higher, as well.  So, it may be hard to attribute anything to Ovation yet.



I'm no expert, but supply of resale Wyndham contracts (at least the "better" ones anyway) certainly seem down and prices up to me. 

I looked at ebay for the last three months; Smoky Mountains had 9 listings, Grand Desert had 8 (including a 126,000 point contract that sold for $3800), and Canterbury had 4 listings (a couple of 300K contracts that went for around $4500 each).


----------



## ronparise

massvacationer said:


> Are the experts here on TUG noticing a decrease in the number of contracts available on the resale  market?  Higher prices?
> 
> I would imagine that Ovation will drive down the supply of resale contracts available though ebay and resale brokers....I would also guess it will push-up resale prices.
> 
> Are we noticing this yet?
> 
> I know the improved economy may also be driving prices higher, as well.  So, it may be hard to attribute anything to Ovation yet.



Absolutely The mid to larger contracts are almost impossible to find.  I sold into these rising prices (at a profit, thank you very much) and now Im trying to build back up and do it again.  What I was able to do at less that $2/1000 points in the past, now takes $10-$20 /1000 

Remember where the supply used to come from... The PCCs that folks would pay to get rid of their contracts.  Wyndham sellers dont need them any more, so the ebay sellers that used to get a steady supply of PCC product  dont get it any more.

And $20 is not out of line.  Buy a million point contract with 2015 points in it and what you are getting is 2105, 2016 and 2017 points you can use immediately. Pay the few months mf between now and the end of the year and in January you get your 2018 points. Thats the use of 4 million points worth roughly $6/1000 or $24000   So if I pay $20000 for the contract, and pay 4 months mf at $500 a month  I have $22000 invested in something that will get me back $24000 right away. ie I got all my money back in just 4 months. and $2000 positive cash flow. My job from then on is to rent a million points for more than mf. Using my Platinum discount and the cancel- rebook game;
 that hasnt been too hard.

So its no wonder folks like me have been grabbing every contract of any size directly from the ebay sellers, and looking for more sources  to buy from..  We are bidding  prices up. and leaving nothing to be posted on ebay or redweek.com for the rest of you


----------



## Tye8len9

VivZ, may I ask which locations your resale contracts were for, because according to the Ovations rep I spoke with it didn't matter what locations or how many points resale points could not be accepted in the program???


----------



## Bigrob

Tye8len9 said:


> VivZ, may I ask which locations your resale contracts were for, because according to the Ovations rep I spoke with it didn't matter what locations or how many points resale points could not be accepted in the program???



You may need to try for a different rep.


----------



## Bigrob

massvacationer said:


> Are the experts here on TUG noticing a decrease in the number of contracts available on the resale  market?  Higher prices?
> 
> I would imagine that Ovation will drive down the supply of resale contracts available though ebay and resale brokers....I would also guess it will push-up resale prices.
> 
> Are we noticing this yet?
> 
> I know the improved economy may also be driving prices higher, as well.  So, it may be hard to attribute anything to Ovation yet.



I'd agree with Ron, but the uptick in price started long before Ovation. Prices have been climbing steadily for the past 18 months. Early last year there were several 600K+ contracts at $1500 or less. I see the same contracts selling for $8000. I'm also seeing some sellers trying to "bundle" unwanted small contracts with larger ones and listing it at the total point value... you have to read the fine print to see it's actually multiple contracts. Market has definitely changed.


----------



## drknight

*Fixed weeks too?*



vacationhopeful said:


> Programs evolve ... corporate might have looked at a point is a point to be resold and/or put into CWA access. Remember, the OLDER resorts were fixed weeks (not getting any program fees on those units and usage/occupancy might be way lower, too) ... taking the resale weeks might be a better WEEK than those gotten via foreclosure.
> 
> And absorbing closing costs by Wyndham? ... it is all mostly smoke & mirrors with in house transfers. Plus CWA is a certificate program - no recorded anything.



So are you saying that fixed weeks are included in this "buyback" program?  I have been scouring these threads, but can't tell.  That would be the best news EVER!


----------



## Bigrob

drknight said:


> So are you saying that fixed weeks are included in this "buyback" program?  I have been scouring these threads, but can't tell.  That would be the best news EVER!



I doubt fixed weeks at the Glade would be eligible, especially those undergoing a Special Assessment such as Kensington, but it couldn't hurt to make a call and ask.


----------



## VivZ

Tye8len9 said:


> VivZ, may I ask which locations your resale contracts were for, because according to the Ovations rep I spoke with it didn't matter what locations or how many points resale points could not be accepted in the program???




Branson, Nashville and Sedona. No one ever called back when I responded to their email so I called the number I found in the thread They said the title search would take 2-3 weeks then they would send paperwork. I received it via email 3 days later for all three deeds. Went back to them in the mail yesterday. So far, so good.


----------



## VivianLynne

This is great ... for the older owners. 

I was thinking of buying a points contract --- like a 308K. I guess I will have to pay MORE now than 2 years ago. 

Now I might look into another fixed week at Shawnee and convert my 2 fixed weeks to points with a small purchase. Only would need to buy 66,000 points to get Silver VIP.


----------



## Bigrob

VivianLynne said:


> This is great ... for the older owners.
> 
> I was thinking of buying a points contract --- like a 308K. I guess I will have to pay MORE now than 2 years ago.
> 
> Now I might look into another fixed week at Shawnee and convert my 2 fixed weeks to points with a small purchase. Only would need to buy 66,000 points to get Silver VIP.



While you will have to pay more than you would have 2 years ago, you will still definitely pay less on resale market than buying from developer. You may want to think carefully about it before doing this. Have you already bought 334K in developer-purchased points? Converting the weeks to points will not get those points as "developer purchased". It used to work that way many years ago, but it hasn't happened that way since at least 2009 (with a few exceptions, but not at Shawnee). 

However; if your weeks were purchased directly from the developer, it may be that converting them would give you "developer-purchased" points. 

You'll want to run the numbers because even the small developer purchase you propose will cost more than a large resale contract (over 500K). The savings will pay for a lot of HKs and RTs should you run out, and the points would be more than you could save using VIP discounts.


----------



## roseamb60

*Glad to See So Man Having Luck*

Hi I was one of the early one (early January) who got rid of my 517,00 points  deeded at the Glade and two other places  thanks to Buckspas early posting about Limited Edition in late Dec 
Iwas happy to get rid of my points and am glad that other have also been sucessful under the followup Ovation 
 If you have been lucky enough to see your points at a profit good for you to but Limited Edition worked for meat the time an Iam very happy to be out from inder Rose


----------



## Tye8len9

VivZ ,Bigrob
 Thanks, just got through to someone who know the program and they are now working on sending me the turn back documents for 5 of my contracts should be done in about 3 weeks... We shall see,,,, awesome.


----------



## needhelp

*Can't find deals on 300K contacts*



Bigrob said:


> I'd agree with Ron, but the uptick in price started long before Ovation. Prices have been climbing steadily for the past 18 months. Early last year there were several 600K+ contracts at $1500 or less. I see the same contracts selling for $8000. I'm also seeing some sellers trying to "bundle" unwanted small contracts with larger ones and listing it at the total point value... you have to read the fine print to see it's actually multiple contracts. Market has definitely changed.



I recently joined TUG BBS because I wanted to learn about buying resale. I briefly looked last year, but quickly relieved that I need more education.
It looks like I waited a year to long.


----------



## needhelp

*Buying "bundle" small contracts*



Bigrob said:


> I'd agree with Ron, but the uptick in price started long before Ovation. Prices have been climbing steadily for the past 18 months. Early last year there were several 600K+ contracts at $1500 or less. I see the same contracts selling for $8000. I'm also seeing some sellers trying to "bundle" unwanted small contracts with larger ones and listing it at the total point value... you have to read the fine print to see it's actually multiple contracts. Market has definitely changed.



Is there anyway to reduce the closing cost for multi-contract deals from a single seller?


----------



## vacationhopeful

needhelp said:


> Is there anyway to reduce the closing cost for multi-contract deals from a single seller?



The closing paperwork and county filing of deeds are not real expensive .. it is the $299 per deed that Wyndham charges to transfer ownership records on their computer ... and before you ask, *"It is because they can (charge that much)!"*


----------



## needhelp

vacationhopeful said:


> The closing paperwork and county filing of deeds are not real expensive .. it is the $299 per deed that Wyndham charges to transfer ownership records on their computer ... and before you ask, *"It is because they can (charge that much)!"*



A seller told me "The closing costs are $300 per contract plus a Wyndham transfer fee of $299 per contract.".
Is this about average?


----------



## Bigrob

needhelp said:


> A seller told me "The closing costs are $300 per contract plus a Wyndham transfer fee of $299 per contract.".
> Is this about average?



Several of the big resellers charge more than that for closing, and insist upon using their in-house/captive closing company. $300 is probably at or below the average for closing cost from a big reseller. It is about double the typical closing with LT Transfer, however.


----------



## needhelp

Bigrob said:


> Several of the big resellers charge more than that for closing, and insist upon using their in-house/captive closing company. $300 is probably at or below the average for closing cost from a big reseller. It is about double the typical closing with LT Transfer, however.



Thanks for all the help!


----------



## mwsmithmn

I just got rid of my two Wyndham properties. There was no hassle or any fees. It may be that they want more inventory, but that is fine with me. I had offers from TUG buyers and Redweek buyers, but they wanted me to pay the closing and transfer fees. Wyndham did not. I am now $1000 a year better off. I think it was a win/win for both of us.


----------



## Ty1on

mwsmithmn said:


> I just got rid of my two Wyndham properties. There was no hassle or any fees. It may be that they want more inventory, but that is fine with me. I had offers from TUG buyers and Redweek buyers, but they wanted me to pay the closing and transfer fees. Wyndham did not. I am now $1000 a year better off. I think it was a win/win for both of us.



It wasn't a win for those of us who wanted you to pay the fees :hysterical:


----------



## Conan

The Wyndham points I gave up had a 2015 calendar year - - I paid a few months fees and dues in 2015 before giving them back via Ovation/Limited Edition. The Limited Edition three-year points I received for them are for use years ending 6/2016, 6/2017 and 6/2018.

I called today to make my first Limited Edition reservation.  The agent told me I also had cancellation points in my account--unused points from my 2015 year in the property I turned back to Wyndham that are good to 12/31/15. 

So I'm having my cake and eating it too!


----------



## shagnut

Do they use this option for resales  too??  shaggy


----------



## Conan

shagnut said:


> Do they use this option for resales  too??  shaggy



They take back resales under what they call the CAP program. You don't get anything for them, but there's no closing cost and your responsibility for dues and maintenance ends.

I don't know if CAP gives you cancellation credit for your unused points.


----------



## needhelp

shagnut said:


> Do they use this option for resales  too??  shaggy



What are you trying to get rid of?


----------



## shagnut

205 K eoy points.  I won't be doing it this year but just was thinking, esp if my health gets worse.  I would be more inclined to get rid of my MROP.  

shaggy


----------



## VivZ

VivZ said:


> Branson, Nashville and Sedona. No one ever called back when I responded to their email so I called the number I found in the thread They said the title search would take 2-3 weeks then they would send paperwork. I received it via email 3 days later for all three deeds. Went back to them in the mail yesterday. So far, so good.



Never heard back after returning the paperwork but just checked my contract status on the Wyndham site and they are gone!! It was almost too easy. And they left all my 2015 points intact.


----------



## kev5982

I called today about giving back my Tamarack (even year) and Williamsburg (odd year) and they said Tamarack doesn't participate in the program.

Thanks,

Kevin


----------



## JudyWI

I just called.  I have 2 resale contracts at Glacier canyon, WI that they will take back.  No money for them but mine are resale that I only paid $1500 for (including all closing fees) So we have used and really got our use out of them.  We are getting older and harder to travel.  

Feel for everyone who paid full price and need to get out.


----------



## spackler

With some of the next-to-zero prices I see for completed auctions on eBay, it seems as though not everyone is aware about Ovation yet.


----------



## Bigrob

spackler said:


> With some of the next-to-zero prices I see for completed auctions on eBay, it seems as though not everyone is aware about Ovation yet.



What are you seeing "near to zero" pricing on? I unfortunately must have missed something.


----------



## Ty1on

Bigrob said:


> What are you seeing "near to zero" pricing on? I unfortunately must have missed something.



There are quite a few fixed weeks that aren't getting any attention.  And the usual overpriced Buy Me Nows that will never see the light of day.

2 BR WYNDHAM Pocono Mountains SHAWNEE VILLAGE Delaware River TIMESHARE Deed
Visa/AMEX/MC/Discover - NO RESERVE!
$1.00
0 bids
5h left (Today 7:20PM)

WYNDHAM RESORT @ FAIRFIELD HARBOUR 77,000 ANNUAL POINTS TIMESHARE FOR SALE
FREE CLOSING! RCI- DEED-ANNUAL-NO RESERVE!
$4.25
5 bids
6h left (Today 8:00PM)

84,000 WYNDHAM PLUS POINTS FREE CLOSE!!
$199.00
1 bid
17h left (Wednesday, 7AM)

Wyndham Pagosa (#0948)
$35.00
0 bids
18h left (Wednesday, 7AM)


WYNDHAM SHAWNEE RIDGE TOP VILLAGE TIMESHARE 2BD FIXED WEEK 28 STROUDSBURG PA
$0.99
6 bids
1d 2h left (Wednesday, 4PM)

Many many more.


----------



## am1

Ty1on said:


> It wasn't a win for those of us who wanted you to pay the fees :hysterical:



Or for those people who will pay retail for the points that Wyndham takes back.


----------



## spackler

Bigrob said:


> What are you seeing "near to zero" pricing on? I unfortunately must have missed something.



Just search for completed auctions for "wyndham points"; there's gotta be about a dozen points-related deeds just in July that ended under $200.  There's a bunch of others that had no bids.  Many of these are going thru PCC's, so the net proceeds to the underlying seller is probably negative.

If these people knew about Ovation, why on earth would they put up with that?


----------



## Ty1on

spackler said:


> Just search for completed auctions for "wyndham points"; there's gotta be about a dozen points-related deeds just in July that ended under $200.  There's a bunch of others that had no bids.  Many of these are going thru PCC's, so the net proceeds to the underlying seller is probably negative.
> 
> If these people knew about Ovation, why on earth would they put up with that?



Those listings all had one thing in common...the Maintenance fees are out of this world, ranging from high $7s to over $10 per thousand points.

It isn't attractive to pay the closing and transfer and even the low bid amount they received given the annual expense.


----------



## spackler

Ty1on said:


> Those listings all had one thing in common...the Maintenance fees are out of this world, ranging from high $7s to over $10 per thousand points.
> 
> It isn't attractive to pay the closing and transfer and even the low bid amount they received given the annual expense.



That's not the point.  The question is, why would people still pay PCC's hundreds/thousands of dollars to get rid of their deeds for pennies on eBay?  Just sign them over to Wyndham & be done with it.


----------



## Ty1on

spackler said:


> That's not the point.  The question is, why would people still pay PCC's hundreds/thousands of dollars to get rid of their deeds for pennies on eBay?  Just sign them over to Wyndham & be done with it.



Wyndham doesn't accept every deed that is offered to the Ovation program.  I don't know if they will accept every fixed week points conversion.  The connection may be that they don't want high MF conversions because them would creep up their CWA MF when they deed them into that trust.


----------



## Bigrob

spackler said:


> That's not the point.  The question is, why would people still pay PCC's hundreds/thousands of dollars to get rid of their deeds for pennies on eBay?  Just sign them over to Wyndham & be done with it.



I don't believe Ovation is an option for the ones you're seeing, and that's also the reason they aren't getting bids, or are going for next to nothing. Did we ever hear for sure whether fixed weeks were being accepted?

Fixed weeks are generally not going to fetch anything unless they are "special" (i.e., consistently rent for more than their maintenance fees) and even then they are not of interest to most of us.

And no doubt, people are operating on imperfect information. For every person who knows about Ovation, I'm sure there are 10-20 that don't. So there are probably a few that might get through. For sure the best thing to do if you have a "dog" property is to check first with Wyndham to see if it is eligible, but to the other poster's point - not all properties are.


----------



## jmurp62

I just got off the phone with Ovation counselor. I am giving back 3 contracts at Fairfield Glade and 1 at Fairfield Bay. These are all over $7 per thousand and push my average per 1000 to high for me. I was also told once the contracts are approved, meaning all paperwork filled out precisely correct, I am out of the responsibility of the special assessment at F Glade. Hopefully true
Murf


----------



## spackler

jmurp62 said:


> I just got off the phone with Ovation counselor. I am giving back 3 contracts at Fairfield Glade and 1 at Fairfield Bay. These are all over $7 per thousand and push my average per 1000 to high for me. I was also told once the contracts are approved, meaning all paperwork filled out precisely correct, I am out of the responsibility of the special assessment at F Glade. Hopefully true
> Murf



Yeah, this is a great example of what I was referring to.  These two properties are near worthless (according to completed eBay listings) but people are still paying the PCCs to get rid of them; makes no sense if they were aware of Ovation.


----------



## ronparise

spackler said:


> Just search for completed auctions for "wyndham points"; there's gotta be about a dozen points-related deeds just in July that ended under $200.  There's a bunch of others that had no bids.  Many of these are going thru PCC's, so the net proceeds to the underlying seller is probably negative.
> 
> If these people knew about Ovation, why on earth would they put up with that?



That may be true, but when you add a $299 transfer fee and the sometimes up to $500 closing fees, thats over $1000 for a less than 100000 point contract or better than a penny a point.

I dont know why folks are still dealing with the post card companies, except that they dont know or dont care about the money. Which of course is the same reason they bought from Wyndhan in the first place.  Its the same question and the same answer when I see someone driving a new Lexus. And  perfectly good Toyotas are on the used car lot next door.


----------



## Ty1on

spackler said:


> Yeah, this is a great example of what I was referring to.  These two properties are near worthless (according to completed eBay listings) but people are still paying the PCCs to get rid of them; makes no sense if they were aware of Ovation.



Some folks don't know.  I would imagine that over time, those contracts that are accepted under Ovation will dry up on ebay, which may be part of Wyndham ' s strategy for Ovation.


----------



## am1

When is the SA due at Sapphire Valley?

Is Fairfield Glade having a SA this year?


----------



## Bigrob

am1 said:


> When is the SA due at Sapphire Valley?
> 
> Is Fairfield Glade having a SA this year?



Fairfield Glade has a lot of different HOAs. There was a HOA that had one last year and Kensington just announced one that is about equal to an extra annual maintenance fee. So yes, a portion of Fairfield Glade is having an SA.


----------



## am1

I just started dumping some.  We will see how it goes?

Is 1 105 000 points at a Myrtle beach resort with high mfs worth dumping or trying to sell?

This will lead to CWA fees going up?


----------



## Ty1on

am1 said:


> I just started dumping some.  We will see how it goes?
> 
> Is 1 105 000 points at a Myrtle beach resort with high mfs worth dumping or trying to sell?
> 
> This will lead to CWA fees going up?



CWA is a volume game.  If course one anything won't leave a mark on CWA fees.  But assuming that Wyndham is for the most part deeding Ovation takebacks into CWA, a large volume of high MF deeds CAN skew CWA fees upward.  This may be a factor that determines whether they take it back.

By all means, if they will take back your high MF MB, by all means do it.

I could also visualize an endgame where Wyndham has learned from Marriott and wants to launch its own resale arm for mature resorts.

PS regarding your actual question, what is the resort?  Are their any sold comps you could look up on EBay to get an idea of the salability of those points?

Most anything but the most expense points MF-wise are going for "something" on ebay.


----------



## am1

Ocean Blvd


----------



## Ty1on

am1 said:


> Ocean Blvd



I show Ocean Blvd in the $5-$6/K range depending on the building.  That isn't high MF.....


----------



## uscav8r

am1 said:


> I just started dumping some.  We will see how it goes?
> 
> Is 1 105 000 points at a Myrtle beach resort with high mfs worth dumping or trying to sell?
> 
> This will lead to CWA fees going up?


If you have OB, the MF are actually just below CWA if I recall. If not, they are not much higher. In any case, OB has the cheapest MF rate of any Wyndham MB property.

This location has quite a bit of value due to the regional ARP and the demand for that ARP in summer. If you aren't using it for MB rentals, you will find plenty of potential buyers if you decide to sell it, and therefore you can command a decent price. Try that before Ovation...


----------



## paxsarah

uscav8r said:


> If you have OB, the MF are actually just below CWA if I recall. If not, they are not much higher. In any case, OB has the cheapest MF rate of any Wyndham MB property.
> 
> This location has quite a bit of value due to the regional ARP and the demand for that ARP in summer. If you aren't using it for MB rentals, you will find plenty of potential buyers if you decide to sell it, and therefore you can command a decent price. Try that before Ovation...



I agree. I'm not in the market now, but we added a fairly modest MB contract at one point to increase the number of points we have available for ARP. Even if your contract is not that useful on its own in terms of ARP, it might be attractive for existing MB owners who want a few more points.


----------



## am1

5.86/ thousand plus the program fee.  Not as bad as some of my others.


----------



## ronparise

"six is the new five"


When I started doing this thing with Wyndham the advice I got was to keep mf under $5/1000 points.  And there were lots of the resorts where that was possible. 

 Now, not so much. 

 It is still possible. National Harbor, South Shore, Bali Hai, Kingsgate, Panama City Beach and Canterbury are the ones that come to mind, but factor in the cost of acquisition, and even they arent that great (at least not as good as they once were. 

And if I understand Ovation correctly Wyndham doesnt distinguish between resorts, They either take it back, or they dont, Thet dont offer more for the better (low mf) contacts, and on the secondary market the difference between these low mf contracts and the average to high mf contracts is shrinking


----------



## jmurp62

OK, so I just got off the phone with the Ovation folks at Wyndham again. 

Today's assistor tells me after confirming with her coworkers that no matter when the deal is done with them, I will *STILL* be responsible for the special assessment at Fairfield Glade because I was billed for it before I started the give back process. 

I was also concerned about a guest vacation in the Smokies in early September. I asked if they would take away the reservation due to me giving some of my contracts back. She assured me 3 times they would *NOT * CANCEL THIS RESERVATION.

We then talked about what happens to the points for the giveback contracts. Will there be an adjustment? SHe told me yes. I asked would it be done proportionally and she couldn't tell me. Again I asked if I did not have the full amount of points available in my account for the giveback (392K) would they cancel any reservations. She again told me they would not take any reservations away and if the points were not available they would make an adjustment to next year's points. 

I then asked about the difference between developer contracts and resales. Told her I have heard some folks with developer points were allowed to use their points for the next few years and resales were not allowed anything. She told me this was incorrect, that was an older program they ran (forget the name, sorry) and that it was an all or nothing program. In other words you gave Wyndham all your points back. 

Some questions for folks who have been through this process: Were developer givebacks allowed future use of points? Has anyone had points taken back when the process was complete and if so how many? Was it the full contract amount of points or were they pro rated? Did anyone have any reservations cancelled?

Thanks for any assistance
Murf


----------



## VivZ

I gave back 3 resale contracts. They changed my points to cancelled points but didn't take any away. Hope that helps.


----------



## Ty1on

jmurp62 said:


> She told me this was incorrect, that was an older program they ran (forget the name, sorry)



Limited Edition


----------



## Bigrob

am1 said:


> I just started dumping some.  We will see how it goes?
> 
> Is 1 105 000 points at a Myrtle beach resort with high mfs worth dumping or trying to sell?
> 
> This will lead to CWA fees going up?



Are you saying 105,000, or 1,105,000?

If the latter please pm me.


----------



## Lerose

*Ovation/Limited Edition*

I just got a call from the Ovation department. I was told my contracts qualified for the program. (My ownership is paid in full and my maintenance fee is $5.35/1000 includes everything). I could either participate in Limited Edition where they will let me use the points for 3 years with no fees involved or I could transfer the ownership with no additional years of usage. I asked when does the 3 year period begin? She didn't know and is going to have someone call me back next week. 

My last straw of frustration with Wyndham is that I tried to book a vacation for later this year. I needed 2 units for 3-4 nights. I was able to get 1 unit for the dates I wanted but couldn't get a 2nd unit for the whole time so now I had to book a hotel for the other dates. Sooooo booking the hotel through a standard online hotel site, what do you know, lots of Wyndham units at a reasonable price. Plenty of Wyndham units were also available in RCI. But going through Wyndham using your points, nothing available.


----------



## Bigrob

Lerose said:


> I just got a call from the Ovation department. I was told my contracts qualified for the program. (My ownership is paid in full and my maintenance fee is $5.35/1000 includes everything). I could either participate in Limited Edition where they will let me use the points for 3 years with no fees involved or I could transfer the ownership with no additional years of usage. I asked when does the 3 year period begin? She didn't know and is going to have someone call me back next week.
> 
> My last straw of frustration with Wyndham is that I tried to book a vacation for later this year. I needed 2 units for 3-4 nights. I was able to get 1 unit for the dates I wanted but couldn't get a 2nd unit for the whole time so now I had to book a hotel for the other dates. Sooooo booking the hotel through a standard online hotel site, what do you know, lots of Wyndham units at a reasonable price. Plenty of Wyndham units were also available in RCI. But going through Wyndham using your points, nothing available.



It is exactly this that the new Nightly Unit Limit, applicable to reservations after October, is designed to reduce. There are differing viewpoints as to how effective it will be. 

The main problem is that the NUL doesn't apply to Wyndham itself (Extra Holidays with Wyndham as by far the largest depositor of intervals) nor does it eliminate Wyndham depositing weeks into RCI. Some have said that it is unlikely to curtail much of the activity that limits availability because it will just "spread it out" over a larger number of users. I think it will help some but not be a panacea that suddenly makes NOLA available for Mardi Gras or Myrtle Beach available in mid-summer.

Ovation is a decent program, makes sense to take the free points if offered.


----------



## Lerose

jmurp62 said:


> OK, so I just got off the phone with the Ovation folks at Wyndham again.
> 
> Today's assistor tells me after confirming with her coworkers that no matter when the deal is done with them, I will *STILL* be responsible for the special assessment at Fairfield Glade because I was billed for it before I started the give back process.
> 
> I was also concerned about a guest vacation in the Smokies in early September. I asked if they would take away the reservation due to me giving some of my contracts back. She assured me 3 times they would *NOT * CANCEL THIS RESERVATION.
> 
> We then talked about what happens to the points for the giveback contracts. Will there be an adjustment? SHe told me yes. I asked would it be done proportionally and she couldn't tell me. Again I asked if I did not have the full amount of points available in my account for the giveback (392K) would they cancel any reservations. She again told me they would not take any reservations away and if the points were not available they would make an adjustment to next year's points.
> 
> I then asked about the difference between developer contracts and resales. Told her I have heard some folks with developer points were allowed to use their points for the next few years and resales were not allowed anything. She told me this was incorrect, that was an older program they ran (forget the name, sorry) and that it was an all or nothing program. In other words you gave Wyndham all your points back.
> 
> Some questions for folks who have been through this process: Were developer givebacks allowed future use of points? Has anyone had points taken back when the process was complete and if so how many? Was
> it the full contract amount of points or were they pro rated? Did anyone have any reservations cancelled?
> 
> Thanks for any assistance
> Murf



Today, I spoke with Kevin from Wyndham's Ovations dept and he said that all of my existing reservations with Wyndham would be canceled if I participated in the Ovations/Limited Editions program. Of course the person I spoke with last Friday said the reservations would not be canceled. I guess they changed the rules over the weekend to make it worse for owners. Kevin said that I would get "Limited Edition" points and I could rebook the reservations with those. I have Thanksgiving booked and there are currently no units available. There is no chance that I'll get my units back if Wyndham cancels my reservations and I try to rebook once I'm enrolled in the Limited Editions program. 

Does anyone have a different contact person that they've worked with? Maybe if I talk to someone else, they'll tell me something else. 

Kevin sent 2 documents: "Program outline for owners" and "Limited Edition Guidelines". The second document among other things lists the resorts that can be booked with Limited Edition points.


----------



## Ty1on

Lerose said:


> Today, I spoke with Kevin from Wyndham's Ovations dept and he said that all of my existing reservations with Wyndham would be canceled if I participated in the Ovations/Limited Editions program. Of course the person I spoke with last Friday said the reservations would not be canceled. I guess they changed the rules over the weekend to make it worse for owners. Kevin said that I would get "Limited Edition" points and I could rebook the reservations with those. I have Thanksgiving booked and there are currently no units available. There is no chance that I'll get my units back if Wyndham cancels my reservations and I try to rebook once I'm enrolled in the Limited Editions program.
> 
> Does anyone have a different contact person that they've worked with? Maybe if I talk to someone else, they'll tell me something else.
> 
> Kevin sent 2 documents: "Program outline for owners" and "Limited Edition Guidelines". The second document among other things lists the resorts that can be booked with Limited Edition points.



From what I've heard, the first person was mistaken.  Ovation is all or none, and existing reservations will be lost in the transfer.  Have you considered using your reservations and then deeding back you contracts?  Of course, the risk there is that they no longer take your deedbacks by then.  I have a feeling, however, that Ovation is going to be around for awhile, considering that Wyndham doesn't appear to be going on a building spree.


----------



## Lerose

I just found out about the Ovations program. I don't generally read Faces and Places or all the emails they send but I was cleaning out my email folder and stumbled on one talking about Ovations. End of last year, I went to a Wyndham resort and did the owners update. They talked about "Pathways" (first time I ever heard about that). I would have to buy more points to participate in Pathways and only those points would qualify.......and of course I had to buy today because the program would expire tomorrow - yada yada

So they'll probably put some kind of new twist to it and call it something else next week, year, whatever.


----------



## Ty1on

Lerose said:


> I just found out about the Ovations program. I don't generally read Faces and Places or all the emails they send but I was cleaning out my email folder and stumbled on one talking about Ovations. End of last year, I went to a Wyndham resort and did the owners update. They talked about "Pathways" (first time I ever heard about that). I would have to buy more points to participate in Pathways and only those points would qualify.......and of course I had to buy today because the program would expire tomorrow - yada yada
> 
> So they'll probably put some kind of new twist to it and call it something else next week, year, whatever.



Never depend on sales weasels to honestly educate you on opt-out opportunities.  Their mission in life is to convince you to buy more so they get their commission.


----------



## Conan

Ty1on said:


> Ovation is all or none, and existing reservations will be lost in the transfer.  Have you considered using your reservations and then deeding back you contracts?



I did the Ovation process in March 2015. It was all-or-none, and I deeded back my resale points at the same time under what they call the Cap program. I got three years' credit for the developer points and nothing for the resale points.

I was instructed to cancel my existing 2015 reservation, which I did. But after completing the Ovation process, when I called them to get started on the three-year booking process, to my surprise they told me I could make a 2015 booking out of the developer portion of my former account's unused 2015 points. [Once you're in Ovation there's no online access, so I wouldn't have known this except for having called in.]

So I still have my three year credits intact. The first year in Ovation is use-it-or-lose-it (no banking and no borrowing). But even though my ownership year was on a calendar basis, the first use year for my Ovation credits runs to June 2016.


----------



## dominidude

This program, and how RELATIVELY easy Wyndham seems to be making it for owners to get rid of their unwanted contracts, tells me one thing: the economy must be doing so well that plenty of suckers must be buying retail.


----------



## spackler

dominidude said:


> This program, and how RELATIVELY easy Wyndham seems to be making it for owners to get rid of their unwanted contracts, tells me one thing: the economy must be doing so well that plenty of suckers must be buying retail.



It's a great business model, isn't it?  Aquire deeds for basically $0, sell them for an average of ~$20,000 with talk (not guarantees) of some future, mediocre benefits.


----------



## needhelp

*Ovation will drive up re-sell prices*



spackler said:


> It's a great business model, isn't it?  Aquire deeds for basically $0, sell them for an average of ~$20,000 with talk (not guarantees) of some future, mediocre benefits.



Also, it will drive up resell prices. If someone can give away their burden to Wyndham, there is no need to post an ad to give it away to another person.


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## raygo123

Until all those poor soles can only go to their home resort who were dumb enough to think Wyndham would allow u to survive

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## raygo123

What's that song enjoy yourself it's later than u think

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## jrv331

Ovation and VIP?
I purchased 4 resale contracts totaling over 500k points in 2001 when it was still Fairfield and under old VIP rules so I have been VIP Gold for 14 yrs. Im turning 2 of the contracts back in under CAP but will still have over 300K points. Any one know if I'll lose VIP totally or be bumped down to Silver? I know the new Siver level is 400k, but just curious if I still fall under the old rules. No one at Wyndham seems to know, its basically wait and see what happens.

On a side note, Ovation (CAP) was the only option for me. I havent been able to even give the 2 contracts away with out being asked to split costs. They both became very high per point maint fee.


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## vacationhopeful

You will lose all VIP standing ... your new ownership level is under 400K but the "powers to be" took the points under CAP verses Ovations with the 3 years of "MF points".

They aren't saying as they want the FREE points and KNOW you won't be a Happy Camper if you lose VIP level.

If you want to get rid of the 308K contract, try giving it away on TUG under "Bargain Deals" ... in the new world order of Wyndham points, 308K is a bigger FREE number than 2 154K contracts each with the $299 resort transfer fee.


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## Ty1on

vacationhopeful said:


> You will lose all VIP standing ... your new ownership level is under 400K but the "powers to be" took the points under CAP verses Ovations with the 3 years of "MF points".
> 
> They aren't saying as they want the FREE points and KNOW you won't be a Happy Camper if you lose VIP level.
> 
> If you want to get rid of the 308K contract, try giving it away on TUG under "Bargain Deals" ... in the new world order of Wyndham points, 308K is a bigger FREE number than 2 154K contracts each with the $299 resort transfer fee.



Flagstaff is REALLY hard to give away.  It's one of the most expensive MF CWS contracts I have seen.


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## jrv331

Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured Id lose VIP all together but its not a big deal, the only thing I ever really got was the free paper. I have rarely been able to get an upgrade on my unit and I dont rent so the guest confirmations didnt matter. 

My flagstaff contracts are my low maint ones, its 5.7 per 1k and Im ok with those. The ones I got rid of were Bay and Glade and both were high 7's, Im ok giving them back and no longer being on the hook for the maint fees.

Thanks


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## urple2

The Flagstaff resort will take back your deed with no compensation. Contact the Flagstaff resort.


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## roseamb60

*Got  rid of my points Iam a Happy Camper*

Hi Folks Back in January I  got rid  of my four contracts at Glade, Sedona and Nashville totaling 517,00 points  through the  Limited Edition programs My maintenance fees were over $3,600 dollars a yea due to the high maintenance at he Glade
 I had tried to sell for several years on Tug, Red Week and E- Bay with no luck T The limited Edition program worked for me
 I think we owe I think we owe someone called Buckspa  who i think first posted about this program in late Dec 14 a big thank you and to Big Rob for his on going help in   answering your questions As he has mentioned its a decent program   Al so o all those who have posted about their experiences thank you too' 
 No Ovation isnt perfect neither was the  Limited Edition ,but it got me ou tof a mostly good 26 year ownership plus  steep maintenance  fees that  as a disabled senior I could no longer use,I got three years worth of points which my daughter will enjoy I hope. 
 Yes it is a win- win for Wyndham Yo u have to decide if it is a good program for you after examining  papers that they  send you  or reading about it here  or in other places 
If you have retained some past bnefits or points good for you Each case may be different  
p Know though that like in the past tha Wyndham could abruptly end these programs so one need to think about one wants to do going forward Good luck to all of you Rose


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## jrv331

I just wanted to post an update on the process and vip. To recap I had 4 resale contracts totaling 567k points I purchased back in 2001. I was vip gold. Less than 2 weeks ago I started the ovation process (pac) to turn back 2 contracts leaving me with 308k points.

Today the 2 turned back contracts are gone and my home page shows me as vip silver. The process was extremely quick for me, thankfully before my maint fees came out. In looking on the Wyndham site under the grand fathered vip info it says as long as I still have enough points for the vip level I was grandfathered to, I retain that level. In my case back when I bought silver was 300k which I still have.

I consider it a win win as I could not even give the 2 contracts away.


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## raygo123

Question to jrv331. Are u saying u had VIP gold with resale points?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> Question to jrv331. Are u saying u had VIP gold with resale points?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



That's exactly what he said in an earlier post. Bought in 2001 under the old rules

Before my time so I can't comment but stranger things have happened. in 2010 I became VIP silver with an eBay purchase of 3 converted fixed weeks. Some years later I made that account platinum by converting 3 pahio fixed weeks to points. It took a purchase of a 126k eoy  contract and a good salesman and $12000 (6000 down and 150 a month for the rest of my life) to make it happen


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## raygo123

That statement alone says much about where things are headed. Curious!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> That statement alone says much about where things are headed. Curious!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



Which statement??


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## raygo123

It's just you are told that resale can never count for anything.  Many shades of. . . truth

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> It's just you are told that resale can never count for anything.  Many shades of. . . truth
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



I dont know anyone that would ever say that resale contracts count for nothing except perhaps some of the not too well informed Wyndham sales people

no shading there


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## raygo123

That who said that. That it will never count towards any of their programs

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> That who said that. That it will never count towards any of their programs
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



exactly right


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## raygo123

For a minute there thought I was going crazy. Do u have any idea when it, resale counting for cop

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## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> For a minute there thought I was going crazy. Do u have any idea when it, resale counting for cop
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



Sorry I dont understand the question


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## Ty1on

ronparise said:


> Sorry I dont understand the question



"Do you know when resales stopped counting toward VIP?"


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## raygo123

Sorry for VIP when did it stop vounting

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## scootr5

raygo123 said:


> Sorry for VIP when did it stop vounting
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



It was around 2004.


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## ronparise

Ty1on said:


> "Do you know when resales stopped counting toward VIP?"



It was before my first purchase which was late 2010


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## Ty1on

ronparise said:


> It was before my first purchase which was late 2010



I meant that's what he was asking.  I've read enough of the posts to be a UN translator now.


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## jrv331

Let me start off by saying when I purchased it was still Fairfield and contracts were desirable, there was no one giving anything away.  "Back then" the way to buy was to find the cheapest fixed red week and convert it to points. As long as you reached the point level you got the vip level.

I purchased 4 fixed weeks then PAID Fairfield/Wyndham sales dept 2500 (ea week) to convert to points. Since they did the conversion the contracts lost the resale flag. I had to call a few times to find the right sales agent but it worked. You could never do this today.

Shoot today I could get millions of points for less than one conversion fee. Im not sure when the rules changed but it has been all down hill from there for me with them. I see these high point contracts going for peanuts on Ebay and it drives me nuts to think what I paid. Although I dont ever even remember being on Ebay in 2001.


----------



## ronparise

jrv331 said:


> Let me start off by saying when I purchased it was still Fairfield and contracts were desirable, there was no one giving anything away.  "Back then" the way to buy was to find the cheapest fixed red week and convert it to points. As long as you reached the point level you got the vip level.
> 
> I purchased 4 fixed weeks then PAID Fairfield/Wyndham sales dept 2500 (ea week) to convert to points. Since they did the conversion the contracts lost the resale flag. I had to call a few times to find the right sales agent but it worked. You could never do this today.
> 
> Shoot today I could get millions of points for less than one conversion fee. Im not sure when the rules changed but it has been all down hill from there for me with them. I see these high point contracts going for peanuts on Ebay and it drives me nuts to think what I paid. Although I dont ever even remember being on Ebay in 2001.



What you say about pricing was true when I first started buying, but no more
Points are selling for one to two cents a point. Even the high mf contracts are finding a home and bringing in real money
Recent examples are the two that I wanted and didnt get:  the 6503000 CWA contract that went for $9350, and the 851000 Seawatch for $10000

What you own has value again


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## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> What you say about pricing was true when I first started buying, but no more
> Points are selling for one to two cents a point. Even the high mf contracts are finding a home and bringing in real money
> Recent examples are the two that I wanted and didnt get:  the 650300
> 
> CWA contract that went for $9350, and the 851000 Seawatch for $10000
> 
> What you own has value again



Listen to what Ron has explained above. Wyndham contracts are SELLING for prices WAY HIGH than in the last 5 or 6 YEARS.... 

The CWA contract went for over $14 per thousand points ... and the Myrtle Beach contract went for almost $12 per thousand points. That is GREAT compared to 2+ years ago ... then the MB contract might have SOLD for under $100. with seller paying all closing and transfer costs.


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## jrv331

I hope values continue to climb, all I know is before I started the Ovation process I listed 105k points at Fairfield Glade (maint fee of 800.00) on ebay and couldnt even give it away. Buyer was to pay  all fees.  Most of the stuff I see seling now is with the seller paying all fees. 

I really think this Ovation program is driving resale prices  up on the good contracts. Just wish I had one of those to sell.


----------



## bnoble

jrv331 said:


> I really think this Ovation program is driving resale prices  up on the good contracts.


Ovation is the tail to the economy's dog.  General economic trends are much more powerful in terms of price movements than a program almost no Wyndham owners know the name of.

As resale prices are moving up and have value, it's to Wyndham's advantage to take them for free.


----------



## ronparise

bnoble said:


> Ovation is the tail to the economy's dog.  General economic trends are much more powerful in terms of price movements than a program almost no Wyndham owners know the name of.
> 
> As resale prices are moving up and have value, it's to Wyndham's advantage to take them for free.


The people that dont know Ovation exists are the same people that dont know ebay exists.   In the recent past they were the "customers" for the PCCs. Paying thousands of dollars to get rid of their timeshare. These timeshares became ebay inventory, that you and I bought for next to nothing

Now Ovation exists and rumor has it that Wyndham is paying to buy back points too. Secondary market supply is shrinking and prices are going up. 

I think the two are connected. Ovation is driving up prices by reducing supply. The state of the economy is a factor too. I dont know how much weight to give to one or the other but certainly both are important


Of course its to Wyndhams advantage to buy back or take back points. anytime you can get something for next to nothing and sell it for 20 cents it makes sense to do it. But Wyndham cant depend on churning points for all their income.  Selling points they take back is a great profit center, but it provides no growth, All it does is to substitute one owner for another. Wyndham is a growth company. And to grow the ownership base, and grow their management fees they need new resorts. And its the economy that allows them to charge what they do in the sales room


----------



## comicbookman

I have over the last 6 months unloaded 3 contracts (all resale).  2 with so-so MF,s ($6 - $6.5)and one with high MF's ($10).  The first 2 I sold on tug, with buyer paying all fees, less $100.  The last I sent back using Ovation.  While LTT made the first 2 relatively easy, they did take a couple of months to complete plus a couple of months advertising, the ovation process was a breeze and very quick. (start to finish under 3 weeks)  It is easier and you don't need to find your deed. (we moved 2 years ago and a box with important paperwork vanished)  Not as keen on "enriching" Wyndham, but it is a decent option to quickly unload a paid off contract.

On a side note, during the excruciating Wyndham sales pitch this past weekend.  (yes I know stupid move, but I was curious)  They pitched heavily that CWA contracts can be broken up into smaller contracts and those can be turned in via Ovation or passed on to others.  This was their idea of family planning.:hysterical:


----------



## Jennie

Just curious--With the CAP program, if a person owns 4 fixed/deeded weeks at one Wyndham resort, all during a very prime month, and all were purchased gradually over several years via Ebay auctions, can they now surrender two or three of the these weeks to Wyndham and continue to own one or two of the others?


----------



## Ty1on

Jennie said:


> Just curious--With the CAP program, if a person owns 4 fixed/deeded weeks at one Wyndham resort, all during a very prime month, and all were purchased gradually over several years via Ebay auctions, can they now surrender two or three of the these weeks to Wyndham and continue to own one or two of the others?



I've heard it's all or none.  I would love to hear someone who has heard or experienced differently.

If you have fixed weeks during a very prime month, you may have options other than deeding back to Wyndham.  They likely have enough value that you can sell them, or at a minimum find an eager taker who will pay closing and transfer to take them off your hands.


----------



## comicbookman

Jennie said:


> Just curious--With the CAP program, if a person owns 4 fixed/deeded weeks at one Wyndham resort, all during a very prime month, and all were purchased gradually over several years via Ebay auctions, can they now surrender two or three of the these weeks to Wyndham and continue to own one or two of the others?



Using ovation, I turned in one of the 8 contracts I had and kept the rest.  It was a converted fixed week.


----------



## Ty1on

comicbookman said:


> Using ovation, I turned in one of the 8 contracts I had and kept the rest.  It was a converted fixed week.



Are the rest all UDIs, or are there FW conversions in there, too?


----------



## comicbookman

Ty1on said:


> Are the rest all UDIs, or are there FW conversions in there, too?



I still have a mix of FW conversions and UDI's.


----------



## Ty1on

comicbookman said:


> I still have a mix of FW conversions and UDI's.



Interesting!  And they were all under the same account number, I assume...


----------



## comicbookman

Ty1on said:


> Interesting!  And they were all under the same account number, I assume...



Yes.  Since it was a resale contract I got nothing for turning it in, but it's MF's were by far the highest (almost twice my average) in my account and it was a small 77k contract.  That made it unattractive to buyers.


----------



## jrv331

Jennie said:


> Just curious--With the CAP program, if a person owns 4 fixed/deeded weeks at one Wyndham resort, all during a very prime month, and all were purchased gradually over several years via Ebay auctions, can they now surrender two or three of the these weeks to Wyndham and continue to own one or two of the others?



With the CAP program you can turn in only what you want. I had 4 weeks and turned 2 back in.  That is as long as your resort is one of the one in the program.

John


----------



## Ty1on

comicbookman said:


> Yes.  Since it was a resale contract I got nothing for turning it in, but it's MF's were by far the highest (almost twice my average) in my account and it was a small 77k contract.  That made it unattractive to buyers.



Maybe the rule is that the "Limited Edition" aspect of Ovation (three years' use beyond turn-in) is all or none.


----------



## jrv331

Thats what I was told. I asked about my 3 yrs worth of points when turning my 2 contracts back and was told under cap you turn in just what you want but lose all points now. With the limited option you surrender all contracts but keep the point use for 3 years. 

Different agent might have given different answers but I did the cap option and lost the points right away.


----------



## Ty1on

jrv331 said:


> Thats what I was told. I asked about my 3 yrs worth of points when turning my 2 contracts back and was told under cap you turn in just what you want but lose all points now. With the limited option you surrender all contracts but keep the point use for 3 years.
> 
> Different agent might have given different answers but I did the cap option and lost the points right away.



Thank you, that definitely clarifies it for me.


----------



## Jennie

I called Wyndham yesterday re: the 4 fixed/deeded weeks I own at one resort in Florida. 

All were purchased gradually through the years via Ebay auctions.

The friendly agent told me without hesitation that I can submit all or a few of the weeks I want to give back. There will be no cost to me for doing so.


----------



## ronparise

jrv331 said:


> Thats what I was told. I asked about my 3 yrs worth of points when turning my 2 contracts back and was told under cap you turn in just what you want but lose all points now. With the limited option you surrender all contracts but keep the point use for 3 years.
> 
> Different agent might have given different answers but I did the cap option and lost the points right away.



lets assume 4 contracts

could you credit pool all the points?  You could do 2016 and 2017 now and 2018 in January. Make reservations with all the points 

Then give back 3 of your 4 contracts

I think the reservations would stay in the account, Cancel them and have 3 years of points to use over the next 3 years


----------



## bnoble

Now that cancel points no longer exist, and they go back to their original "source", I think you'd lose them.


----------



## jrv331

I was told you would lose any ponts associated with the contract. Any reservation would be cancelled. I had 218 points in the credit pool and I lost those , wasnt really concerned as they were expiring anyway. Again this was under cap, limited use might be different.


----------



## scootr5

bnoble said:


> Now that cancel points no longer exist, and they go back to their original "source", I think you'd lose them.



That could present an interesting scenario for someone that pools all of their future points and then sells the contract. If you make a reservation with those pooled points and then cancel it, where will the points go? Back to your member number in the pool, or to the new owner in the pool?


----------



## ronparise

scootr5 said:


> That could present an interesting scenario for someone that pools all of their future points and then sells the contract. If you make a reservation with those pooled points and then cancel it, where will the points go? Back to your member number in the pool, or to the new owner in the pool?



 Points, whether in the credit pool or not, go with the sale. 

Ive sold a number of stripped contracts where the points are in reservations and  the reservations stay with the account. Once the contract is gone I can cancel the reservation and I have the points back

Im suggesting it might work the same way with CAP  Try it what do you have to lose


----------



## scootr5

ronparise said:


> Points, whether in the credit pool or not, go with the sale.
> 
> Ive sold a number of stripped contracts where the points are in reservations and  the reservations stay with the account. Once the contract is gone I can cancel the reservation and I have the points back
> 
> Im suggesting it might work the same way with CAP  Try it what do you have to lose



It was you I was thinking of when I typed that, but in rereading notes on this I see we've been told they go back to the member but not associated to a contract (which prevents the multiple ARP usage as well).


----------



## ronparise

It will be interesting in January to see what happens, I have 40 contracts that when the 2018 points are available Ill pool and then hide in reservations, And then Ill  try to get Wyndham to take back the contracts

Its like 4 million points that ought to bring me about $25000 when I flip them to a points manager, with no maintenance fees


----------



## Ty1on

ronparise said:


> It will be interesting in January to see what happens, I have 40 contracts that when the 2018 points are available Ill pool and then hide in reservations, And then Ill  try to get Wyndham to take back the contracts
> 
> Its like 4 million points that ought to bring me about $25000 when I flip them to a points manager, with no maintenance fees



We should have a pool.  I vote they will clear the reservations and take the points.


----------



## donnaval

I'm deeding back five contracts, but keeping a couple of El Cid contracts that age out their RTU over the next few years.  BUT...

1.  Submitted inquiry through the website last Thursday.

2.  Received a call from the Ovation Dept. on Tuesday, very nice person, seemed very knowledgeable.  Said I could keep what I wanted and deed back only what I wanted.  I was not given the option of turning all back and keeping three years of usage. My contracts were all Ebay purchases, a mix of points and converted fixed weeks.   My concern was retaining my RCI account, which has a boatload of points I had to dump last year and this.  She said by keeping the contracts I'm keeping, I'd retain my RCI account.

3.  Today received several emails with the required documents - however, one email said it was attaching the deeds for two contracts, but only one was attached.

4.  I just checked my Wyndham account to make sure the contract numbers were correct, and found that the El Cid contracts are no longer showing in my ownership summary, only the five contracts I am returning!  So, once I deed these back - what happens to my account?

This makes me wonder if they are creating a "new" account for me with the El Cid points only, and that I'll lose my RCI account after all when these five are canceled out??? I will call tomorrow to find out what's going on. 

I would be curious to hear from those who have retained some contracts whether their online information has been changed like this, or if you're farther along in the process if you retained the very same account online or were issued a new one????


----------



## traveldaddy

Ty1on said:


> We should have a pool.  I vote they will clear the reservations and take the points.



But what would they do if the points were pooled and used for a reservation, and the reservation was already used?

Could be interesting....


----------



## raygo123

Probably just charge  mf till end of the year.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise

donnaval said:


> I'm deeding back five contracts, but keeping a couple of El Cid contracts that age out their RTU over the next few years.  BUT...
> 
> 1.  Submitted inquiry through the website last Thursday.
> 
> 2.  Received a call from the Ovation Dept. on Tuesday, very nice person, seemed very knowledgeable.  Said I could keep what I wanted and deed back only what I wanted.  I was not given the option of turning all back and keeping three years of usage. My contracts were all Ebay purchases, a mix of points and converted fixed weeks.   My concern was retaining my RCI account, which has a boatload of points I had to dump last year and this.  She said by keeping the contracts I'm keeping, I'd retain my RCI account.
> 
> 3.  Today received several emails with the required documents - however, one email said it was attaching the deeds for two contracts, but only one was attached.
> 
> 4.  I just checked my Wyndham account to make sure the contract numbers were correct, and found that the El Cid contracts are no longer showing in my ownership summary, only the five contracts I am returning!  So, once I deed these back - what happens to my account?
> 
> This makes me wonder if they are creating a "new" account for me with the El Cid points only, and that I'll lose my RCI account after all when these five are canceled out??? I will call tomorrow to find out what's going on.
> 
> I would be curious to hear from those who have retained some contracts whether their online information has been changed like this, or if you're farther along in the process if you retained the very same account online or were issued a new one????



My el-cyd contract does not show in my ownership summary either.Neither do my Royal Vacation Suites or a few of the Bali-Hai contracts.  Check the financial services/online assessments page I bet you will see it there

This seems to be a thing with affiliate resorts


----------



## ronparise

Ty1on said:


> We should have a pool.  I vote they will clear the reservations and take the points.



Im taking the other side, If they take the deeds, Ill keep the reservations (and the points... Well see

for me the big question is will they take 40 contracts in one big bite... If they do Im happy with or without the points


----------



## donnaval

Thanks for that info, Ron - they do show under the assessments.  I would've sworn they showed up with the ownership summary before, but I guess I had been looking at this page instead!  Feeling better about my RCI account now, whew.


----------



## Bigrob

has anyone turned in a straight fixed week successfully?


----------



## donnaval

We're in the process of doing one, BigRob - it takes a little longer, I guess since Wyndham doesn't control the ownership info to the same degree they do with the points contracts.  We are turning in a Pagosa lock-off.  They said it will take up to two months to get the documents (versus just a couple of days for the points), and then another couple of weeks to close out when the docs are returned.  Tugger shawnhayes provided more detailed info on his process in this thread:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231211


----------



## raygo123

I turned in a week that the hoa broke off of Wyndham and we decided to stay with Wyndham so bought into points.
!ailed last Wednesday gone put of !y account today

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## raygo123

Out of my account as of toast

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## raygo123

Dang its is out of my account as of today

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## raygo123

It was rrsale

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## mistalong

Bigrob said:


> has anyone turned in a straight fixed week successfully?



Rob I did last year right before they announced the program.  I posted then.  No problems whatsoever.  Labor Day weekend studio at Santa Barbara.


----------



## Conan

Conan said:


> OK, here's the same document scanned .jpg and .pdf
> 
> http://1drv.ms/1ALYpkH
> 
> http://1drv.ms/1vPHqhd



Since those links seem to have expired, here's a new link to the list of Limited Edition-eligible properties (as of 12/2014):

http://bit.ly/1PiyW6K


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## roseamb60

spackler said:


> Just search for completed auctions for "wyndham points"; there's gotta be about a dozen points-related deeds just in July that ended under $200.  There's a bunch of others that had no bids.  Many of these are going thru PCC's, so the net proceeds to the underlying seller is probably negative.
> 
> If these people knew about Ovation, why on earth would they put up with that?



Hi Pleading ignorance here Wha tis a PCC ?  Thanks Rose


----------



## pedro47

Every five (5) years Wyndham will introduce a  new and better mouse trap.Now it is Ovation. When will it end.


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## ronparise

roseamb60 said:


> Hi Pleading ignorance here Wha tis a PCC ?  Thanks Rose


PCCs are named for their favorite marketing method Post Cards although I think most are now using email

These are the timeshare liquidation companies that will agree to take your timeshare, and end your maintenance fee obligation for a fee ; usually several thousands of dollars


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## comicbookman

pedro47 said:


> Every five (5) years Wyndham will introduce a  new and better mouse trap.Now it is Ovation. When will it end.



I turned in a small contract using Ovation.  It cost me less than the 2 I sold, just before Ovation started. (I had to kick in money on the sales, but not with Ovation)  It does not seem to be a mouse trap.  Completely voluntary, owner initiated transaction that is actually free (unless you are in situation where you must pay to get documents notarized, but most can get that free)  Exactly what tuggers have been clamoring for, a dev that will take back unwanted paid off contracts.  Of course it just gives them more inventory to sell at ridiculous prices, but it is ideal for owners who have TS with zero resale value.

For once a developer is doing something useful to owners who are looking to get out.


----------



## donnaval

> It does not seem to be a mouse trap. Completely voluntary, owner initiated transaction that is actually free (unless you are in situation where you must pay to get documents notarized, but most can get that free)



I'm very pleased with the way Ovation has worked for us.  We turned back six small contracts with no resale value, and kept four RTU contracts that age out in a few years.  We did have to pay about $50 in notary fees because of all the documents involved, but it was $50 VERY well spent.  Wyndham left all of our unused 2015 points in our account - we weren't sure if they'd be removed since we had used a good chunk of points (more than we turned back) so I think they were more than fair with us.  Our only snafu was when they removed the contracts from our account they coded something incorrectly and we had no online access to the account for several weeks until they figured out what they'd done.   We also turned back an unconverted fixed week with no value.  We paid only pennies for these contracts and had good use of them over the years but with age and health issues rearing their nasty heads, we were thrilled to be given this option to clean up our timeshare situation with Wyndham.

If anyone is considering this option, I'd urge you to look into it now while it's still being offered.


----------



## am1

comicbookman said:


> I turned in a small contract using Ovation.  It cost me less than the 2 I sold, just before Ovation started. (I had to kick in money on the sales, but not with Ovation)  It does not seem to be a mouse trap.  Completely voluntary, owner initiated transaction that is actually free (unless you are in situation where you must pay to get documents notarized, but most can get that free)  Exactly what tuggers have been clamoring for, a dev that will take back unwanted paid off contracts.  Of course it just gives them more inventory to sell at ridiculous prices, but it is ideal for owners who have TS with zero resale value.
> 
> For once a developer is doing something useful to owners who are looking to get out.



The mousetrap  is that Wyndham will re sell these contracts to other owners at retail.  

I like it but it sets a bad precedent in that Wyndham acknowledges that what they are selling is worthless when it comes to an investment.  We already all know that.  

Because of this less new resorts will be built.


----------



## linsj

Anybody know if this program includes floating Pahio weeks that were not converted to Wyndham points? A friend with a nonoceanfront view wants to get rid of her unit. The property is on the accepted list. It's not worth much on the market, and she doesn't want to spend time trying to sell it. This would be a good option for her if it works.


----------



## donnaval

Tell your friend to call and ask - try this number to start:  (877) 234-3435.  If that's not the right number they will point her in the right direction.

Everyone I spoke with at every step of the process was friendly and helpful and seemed very knowledgeable about the program.

One of the units we turned back in was an unconverted fixed week.  It took a little longer than the points contracts, not exactly sure why.  But with the fixed week, I called in, they then put me on hold to verify whether they would take back the week, and then said they would but that it would take up to two months to get the paperwork.  And, since both my and my husband's names are on the deed, my husband had to get on the phone and verify that he, too, wanted to turn back the week.   It took a little less than two months, and when it came the deed was incorrect (had a previous owner listed as a current owner along with us), so that took a few phone calls to straighten out, but then they emailed new paperwork and everything went smoothly after that.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> The mousetrap  is that Wyndham will re sell these contracts to other owners at retail.
> 
> I like it but it sets a bad precedent in that Wyndham acknowledges that what they are selling is worthless when it comes to an investment.  We already all know that.
> 
> Because of this less new resorts will be built.



I dont think it means less new resorts will be built. (or bought) Wyndham is a developer and developers develop. Their goal is to keep their cost of goods sold at about 16% of what they sell it for.  These takebacks help them hit that number, and make for a nice profit center, but Wyndham is still developing new product

Remember Wyndham sees themselves as a growth company and so does wallstreet. Flipping points is, as I said , a nice profit center but its not growth.. They need new resorts and new owners for that


----------



## ronparise

pedro47 said:


> Every five (5) years Wyndham will introduce a  new and better mouse trap.Now it is Ovation. When will it end.



I dont think so, What I think is all those other programs (remember pathways) were tests or trial balloons all part of the development of Ovation. I think they are committed now. Wyndham will be the buyer of last resort for their own product


----------



## am1

ronparise said:


> I dont think it means less new resorts will be built. (or bought) Wyndham is a developer and developers develop. Their goal is to keep their cost of goods sold at about 16% of what they sell it for.  These takebacks help them hit that number, and make for a nice profit center, but Wyndham is still developing new product
> 
> Remember Wyndham sees themselves as a growth company and so does wallstreet. Flipping points is, as I said , a nice profit center but its not growth.. They need new resorts and new owners for that



Yes less new resorts will be built because of ovation.


----------



## linsj

donnaval said:


> Tell your friend to call and ask - try this number to start:  (877) 234-3435.  If that's not the right number they will point her in the right direction.



Will do. Thanks.


----------



## scootr5

ronparise said:


> It will be interesting in January to see what happens, I have 40 contracts that when the 2018 points are available Ill pool and then hide in reservations, And then Ill  try to get Wyndham to take back the contracts



Ron, I was curious what happened with this situation.


----------



## JustAllie

I guess this is as good a thread as any to post about my recent phone call with Ovation.  

I have two Wyndham timeshares in Williamsburg, both deeded fixed week springtime units, one at Patriots' Place and one at Kingsgate.  I haven't stayed in the actual units in years, and since my uncle (who lived in Williamsburg) has passed away, there's little reason to go back there anymore.  For the past few years most of my weeks have ended up deposited, and I haven't found many good trades through RCI available to me as a fixed week owner. 

I tried offering one of my weeks here on TUG for free in the Bargain Deals area, and someone pointed me to the Ovation program.  I finally got around to calling them today.  

For my two fixed weeks in Williamsburg, Wyndham gave me three options:

 - Give the timeshare(s) back to Wyndham at no cost to me
 - Contact one of two recommended timeshare resellers to see if the units could be sold
 - Transfer the unit(s) for no cost to an immediate family member

I had no idea that this program existed, and I'm feeling very pleased that my two timeshare properties are eligible for this program.  They didn't make any mention of the "Limited Edition" option I've seen discussed on this forum, so I'm not sure if this means that the units aren't eligible for that program.  Maybe that's only for Points owners or for people at certain resorts. 

I'm trying to decide what to do.  One issue is that I have deposits with RCI that add up to 97 TPUs.  If I don't come up with a good idea for using them for a reservation, they would disappear when I transfer the units to Wyndham.  From what the Wyndham person told me, reservations with Wyndham would go away, banked weeks with RCI would go away, but existing reservations with RCI would stay.  They would send back any overpayments I had made on the unit (e.g. next year's prepaid maintenance fees).


----------



## spackler

JustAllie said:


> For my two fixed weeks in Williamsburg, Wyndham gave me three options:
> 
> - Give the timeshare(s) back to Wyndham at no cost to me
> - Contact one of two recommended timeshare resellers to see if the units could be sold
> - Transfer the unit(s) for no cost to an immediate family member



Who are the recommended timeshare resellers?


----------



## Roger830

JustAllie said:


> I guess this is as good a thread as any to post about my recent phone call with Ovation.
> 
> I have two Wyndham timeshares in Williamsburg, both deeded fixed week springtime units, one at Patriots' Place and one at Kingsgate.  I haven't stayed in the actual units in years, and since my uncle (who lived in Williamsburg) has passed away, there's little reason to go back there anymore.  For the past few years most of my weeks have ended up deposited, and I haven't found many good trades through RCI available to me as a fixed week owner.
> 
> I tried offering one of my weeks here on TUG for free in the Bargain Deals area, and someone pointed me to the Ovation program.  I finally got around to calling them today.
> 
> For my two fixed weeks in Williamsburg, Wyndham gave me three options:
> 
> - Give the timeshare(s) back to Wyndham at no cost to me
> - Contact one of two recommended timeshare resellers to see if the units could be sold
> - Transfer the unit(s) for no cost to an immediate family member
> 
> I had no idea that this program existed, and I'm feeling very pleased that my two timeshare properties are eligible for this program.  They didn't make any mention of the "Limited Edition" option I've seen discussed on this forum, so I'm not sure if this means that the units aren't eligible for that program.  Maybe that's only for Points owners or for people at certain resorts.
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to do.  One issue is that I have deposits with RCI that add up to 97 TPUs.  If I don't come up with a good idea for using them for a reservation, they would disappear when I transfer the units to Wyndham.  From what the Wyndham person told me, reservations with Wyndham would go away, banked weeks with RCI would go away, but existing reservations with RCI would stay.  They would send back any overpayments I had made on the unit (e.g. next year's prepaid maintenance fees).



What is there to think about?

People spend thousands of dollars to get rid of timeshares.

I'd let it go before they change their mind.


----------



## JustAllie

spackler said:


> Who are the recommended timeshare resellers?



Timeshare Brokers and Resort Property Marketing.


----------



## tschwa2

JustAllie said:


> I'm trying to decide what to do.  One issue is that I have deposits with RCI that add up to 97 TPUs.  If I don't come up with a good idea for using them for a reservation, they would disappear when I transfer the units to Wyndham.  From what the Wyndham person told me, reservations with Wyndham would go away, banked weeks with RCI would go away, but existing reservations with RCI would stay.  They would send back any overpayments I had made on the unit (e.g. next year's prepaid maintenance fees).



JustAllie,
If you have deeded weeks and are paying for your own RCI membership, then you would not lose your 97 tpu deposit credit.  The info you were given would be applicable if you had Wyndham points deposited with RCI.  If you had prepaid 2017 MF and already deposited the unit, and were reimbursing the 2017 MF then they *might* be able to take back the 2017 deposit associated tpu's.  If they can't then likely they would just not reimburse you and let you keep the credits.  In a Wyndham points account they pay for and control your RCI account and when they cancel the account the points go poof.  If you own weeks, they don't and can't cancel your rci account, so you keep them.

My understanding is Ovations takes longer when dealing with weeks rather than points but for a mid season week like your it would probably be the fastest and easiest way to get rid of the week.


----------



## sb2313

Your banked weeks with rci shouldn't go away as long as you pay your annual rci fee. I think that is more for Wyndham points. They can't take away already banked points. Either way, the refund on your 2017 prepaid fees will put you well ahead of where you thought you would be at the beginning of this process.


----------



## JustAllie

Wow, great info, thanks.  That's reassuring -- I was hating the idea of having to scramble to make reservations for several future vacations to use up those TPUs.  

I had prepaid the 2017 maintenance fees on both units but only deposited the Kingsgate unit, since my Patriots' Place unit falls the week after Easter next year and thus has a chance of being "rentable."  Or, as I later thought, it might be a good year to give it away, since the use of next year's week is more attractive than it would be most years.  And then you told me about Ovation.   

It probably makes more sense to ask for the 2017 maintenance fees back on that unit.  I may even try to get back the fees on the Kingsgate unit and let them take back those points.  

How long can someone remain an RCI member after they've sold off all their timeshares?  For as long as I keep paying dues, or is there a time limit?


----------



## tschwa2

As long as you pay the dues you can keep the RCI account.  If you don't have any tpu's coming in to combine with though your credits will eventually expire but you can still keep rci if you wanted to for the extra vacations and last calls.


----------



## JustAllie

Great, thanks!


----------



## JustAllie

I called the Ovation people again, and the 2nd customer service rep, just like the first, is convinced that my RCI account and all my unreserved deposits will go *poof* as soon as I turn over the timeshares to them.  She also did not believe there is any way to get a refund of maintenance fees.  I guess she must not have dealt with a Weeks member before?  

She recommended that I call RCI to confirm that my account will stay open, and I guess I would be calling the resort to see if it's possible to get those 2017 maintenance fees back, since that's where I sent the payment.  (She was going to give me the phone number for Wyndham Financial Services to ask them about a refund, but I never deal with Wyndham when it comes to MF payments.  I send my money to the two resorts' Property Owners Associations.)  

Anyway, it sounds like this is going to take some more footwork on my part.  But the phone rep did seem convinced that the Ovation program and this offer would be around for a long time, so maybe it's not too urgent.


----------



## scootr5

JustAllie said:


> I called the Ovation people again, and the 2nd customer service rep, just like the first, is convinced that my RCI account and all my unreserved deposits will go *poof* as soon as I turn over the timeshares to them.  She also did not believe there is any way to get a refund of maintenance fees.  I guess she must not have dealt with a Weeks member before?



The folks at the call center really don't have much of any experience with weeks owners. Since Wyndham does not pay for your RCI account, it will stay intact (same as if you had deposited your units to Interval International, or SFX or one of the other exchange companies).

If you own points, the RCI account is paid for by Wyndham as part of your club fee. When your points ownership goes away, your RCI account goes with it.


----------



## 1songbird

I gave my fixed week Wyndham back through Ovations last year. I had TPUs banked in RCI and still do. As mentioned above, you own that account and pay for it yourself. Wyndham has no access to it so your Banked time will still be available. The prepaid maintenance is another story but you should receive it back if they get the closing done before it is owed. It took ours about 6 weeks from start to completion. Part of the slow down was on our end because our daughter was on the deed with us and lives in another state.


----------



## tschwa2

If you can not get your pre-paid MF back- which I haven't heard that being offered for weeks then at least make sure you deposit the week into RCI.  Even if they can refund the pre-paid amount, I doubt it will be possible for the week you already deposited, unless no one exchanged into the week.


----------



## kentmccain

anybody know who the officers of the Fairshare Vacation Owners Association is in  2016?
IN 2015 it was Geoff Richards , Hebeler and Henandez
thanks for the help !!


----------



## Sandi Bo

kentmccain said:


> anybody know who the officers of the Fairshare Vacation Owners Association is in  2016?
> IN 2015 it was Geoff Richards , Hebeler and Henandez
> thanks for the help !!



I suggest starting a new thread on this.  You are burying your question in threads of a different topic (IMO).


----------



## ronparise

kentmccain said:


> anybody know who the officers of the Fairshare Vacation Owners Association is in  2016?
> IN 2015 it was Geoff Richards , Hebeler and Henandez
> thanks for the help !!



sounds like a law firm

Its still Richards for sure, and Im almost positive Hernandez.. I just dont know about Hebeler


----------



## Sandi Bo

*Ovations - Legacy - Family Transfer*

Has anyone done a family transfer using Ovations?

I requested to transfer from my Dad to his 5 children (keeping in one account to maintain VIP platinum status).  I was told by one person that all existing reservations would be cancelled (that we would get a new member number and the reservations would not transfer).  I was told by a 2nd person that we could keep the same member number and our reservations would be okay.   

Both suggested contacting a VC to find out for sure (which is very concerning, if the Ovations department doesn't know, I don't expect a VC to).  The Ovations person also suggested a VC could tell me what contract the points for a reservation came from (I've not been successful in that area in the past, either).


----------



## raygo123

Sandi Bo said:


> Has anyone done a family transfer using Ovations?
> 
> I requested to transfer from my Dad to his 5 children (keeping in one account to maintain VIP platinum status).  I was told by one person that all existing reservations would be cancelled (that we would get a new member number and the reservations would not transfer).  I was told by a 2nd person that we could keep the same member number and our reservations would be okay.
> 
> Both suggested contacting a VC to find out for sure (which is very concerning, if the Ovations department doesn't know, I don't expect a VC to).  The Ovations person also suggested a VC could tell me what contract the points for a reservation came from (I've not been successful in that area in the past, either).


Tribute, is part of ovation, and it is so new i doubt any by tuggers have been done.  I would imagine that the only difference is the $299 fee is waived from the standard transfer procedure.  Ask for title services.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## JustAllie

I wanted to come back and post in this thread about my successful transaction with Wyndham using the Ovation program.  Just this week I got confirmation from Wyndham that they have accepted my two timeshare weeks, and I am now relieved of any future obligations to Wyndham.  

I managed to get back the pre-paid maintenance fees on the week I had not yet banked with RCI, and I have a bunch of banked TPUs with RCI for weeks that I had already deposited.  Overall this seems like an excellent program.  I only wish it had been available years ago when I first started struggling with paying the maintenance fees on my timeshares!


----------



## WinniWoman

Our resort- Smugglers Notch (which is now a Wyndham Resort, though Wyndham is in charge of sales and management is still private)- sent out a survey about 2 months ago asking various questions about owners' interest in a buy/take back program. Termed it a "farewell" program. We still have not heard anything back about it. They sent out the survey to owners in waves.

I imagine they are getting a lot of input from Wyndham. First they came up with a new rental policy and then they came up with new benefits plans for owners who might want to renew, and now this. I guess they are revamping everything to meet the conditions of the marketplace.

I am curious to see what they come up with as we are getting near that point where we would probably consider it. We are fixed week owners (one week with an attached, pre assigned  float week also)


----------



## bellesgirl

I contacted Wyndham today about deeding back one of my weeks.  I have not paid the 2017 maintenance fees yet, but I have received the bill which is due 1/1/2017.  It's doubtful this will get completed before then, so should I pay my fees and deposit my week now?  Since I have the bill already am I obligated to pay the fee regardless?  What happens if I don't pay the fees and just incur the late penalty?  The week itself is not until July 2017.


----------



## Culli

I successfully did one resale contract and is updated...not exactly sure how my 2016 ressies will turn out.  Just sent in 3 more contracts today and I'm keeping my 300K Glacier Canyon contract.  All of them I got resale and used them very successfully in Wyn internal system and for Disney RCI trades and  when you could get just about any resort up to 2 BRs so I feel I made out like a bandit and to give 650K pts back at no cost to me seems like icing on the cake.  No fuss no muss so far - I'm sure I just jinxed myself but do it before they change their minds.

My concern is how my 2017 Ressies will be impacted but if they canceled them all no big deal I could deal with it for dumping the contracts at no cost.  I will deposit my remaining 2016 pts into RCI as all my are calendar year UYs.  I was very happy to see this program but if something happens I don't mind keeping the pts we will use them.  But I see us renting as a more economical long term hedge.  We use to use them at Glacier Canyon all the time for last minute but that has turned into such a renting racket it is impossible to get in there for any weekends period much less any desirable dates and summer.  I understand why but just makes the pts not as useful to one of the original reasons we got them, and why we are keeping the 300k contract for the booking period to get those desirable dates.

...on a side note I went to check my RCI account and what a hot mess since whatever changes they just did YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kev5982

So I am going through a divorce and have 6 deeds to give back.
They told me some of the deeds can't be given back because the points are current.
I have credit pooled points and used them, so they wont be current until the end of next year.
Has any one else ran into this problem?


----------



## bnoble

It's well documented that they will not take back stripped contracts (at least, not anymore.) So, you will have to wait until then to give those two back, and pay the MFs on them in the meantime.


----------



## pianoetudes

Is it true that the Ovation program will take back your developer-purchased contract, and not resale contract? Or it is case by case.


----------



## TUGBrian

case by case, costs nothing to ask.


----------



## Ty1on

pianoetudes said:


> Is it true that the Ovation program will take back your developer-purchased contract, and not resale contract? Or it is case by case.



It is case by case, and they have taken back many resales according to posters here.  Depends on the resort.


----------



## raygo123

Wyndham took back a resale deed to points contract at foxrun and it is not managed by Wyndham.  So it is a case by case basis

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2

At first it seemed Wyndham was more selective when they introduced Ovations.  Not long into it they seemed to open the flood gates and were accepting all points contracts and a fair amount of non converted deeds.  About 3 months ago, it seems like they started to back off and get more selective with resale points contracts.  I have not heard any retail contracts that have not qualified for at least the take back with no payment Ovation option.


----------



## comicbookman

tschwa2 said:


> At first it seemed Wyndham was more selective when they introduced Ovations.  Not long into it they seemed to open the flood gates and were accepting all points contracts and a fair amount of non converted deeds.  About 3 months ago, it seems like they started to back off and get more selective with resale points contracts.  I have not heard any retail contracts that have not qualified for at least the take back with no payment Ovation option.



Since the program started I have turned in 4 contracts.  All were resale.  I don't think resale vs developer purchase matters.  From what I have seen the location of the contract is the overriding factor.


----------



## pianoetudes

So I called the ovation hotline. Fortunately my contract is eligible. I was told that I can start the process over the phone and will be assigned a case number. However, as soon as the process starts, I will lose all Wyndham points - and if I have any reservations at Wyndham properties, they will be cancelled. Any RCI reservations are okay. I will have no access to Club Wyndham and RCI web sites. But I still have to pay monthly MF until the process is completed.

Wow, it looks like I have to transfer my points to RCI and make several RCI reservations until my RCI balance is close to zero before I start the process. Any thoughts?


----------



## tschwa2

In all likelihood the transfer will take less than 2 months payments.  If you have a Jan 1 use year and have it transferred by March 25 you would have only paid for 25% of the MF for your points.  You really don't have to get your points balance down to 0.


----------



## Culli

Just an update I had 5 contracts just under 1mil points.  They have taken all 4 I wanted to get rid for a total of just under 700k points.  Was easy and I got them all secondary market for very little cost - I got great use and value out of the pts and probably got rid of a tad earlier than I wanted but it didn't cost me anything and was extremely easy.  

I kept my Glacier Canyon contract for 300k pts as we live 40 mins away and need the 13 month booking window.  So if you have any thoughts you might want to do this, I suggest doing it sooner than waiting until they change their mind.


----------



## ride2slide

I offered Ovation my 189K points. They turned me down since it was resell. I put it on TUG and it was snapped up the same day.


----------



## lcml11

ride2slide said:


> I offered Ovation my 189K points. They turned me down since it was resell. I put it on TUG and it was snapped up the same day.



The difference between the two posts on how re-sale properties were handled was probably just that they only want certain ones back depending on Resort, Time of Year, etc.

The following release from Wyndham does not appear to make a reference to the source of ownership, i.e. Direct Purchase, re-sale, etc.

https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/discover/ovationbywyndham.page


----------



## Culli

lcml11 said:


> The difference between the two posts on how re-sale properties were handled was probably just that they only want certain ones back depending on Resort, Time of Year, etc.
> 
> The following release from Wyndham does not appear to make a reference to the source of ownership, i.e. Direct Purchase, re-sale, etc.
> 
> https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/discover/ovationbywyndham.page



I had Pagosa and Kingsgate for proporties.  Kingsgate did have favorable MFs while Pagosa was pretty high if that helps anyone.  I sure am paying a premium for Glacier Canyon ARP as it 6.81 per pt in MFs but impossible to get prime time and even weekends without it, it is all taken by people renting.


----------



## snickers104

Does anyone know if they will take a Nashville resale contract?


----------



## Culli

I would call the Ovation number and have your contract#s in hand and tell them what you want to do, they will stop the process and give you a "case#" for reference.  Keep that number and ping them via the website every few weeks, everytime I did that magically one of my contracts go approved.


----------



## ltb616@comcast.net

scootr5 said:


> Marketing apparently can't settle on a name - pathways, limited edition, and now ovation.
> 
> At least it's something.


Is there an email for this ovation from Wyndham


----------



## scootr5

ltb616@comcast.net said:


> Is there an email for this ovation from Wyndham



I don't know of a specific email address, but there is a link to send in a form email if you don't want to call. If you click on "Manage My Account" on the home page, you will then see a box below it for Ovation. Clicking on that takes you to the Ovation page, which includes the following:

"Call an Ovation by Wyndham representative today at 855-312-9040 to learn more about the options* available to you.

You may also select the button below to request more information about Ovation. Please choose “Ovation Inquiry” as your reason for contact."​


----------



## dmurray007

Just started Ovation process for SVC, (Shell Vacations Club)  same phone # as above. I agree it is a case by case deal, my contact was with the Legacy in AZ. but phone person assumed that it was with Carriage Hills in ON Canada, as I am a Canadian and Carriage Hills is only 1 hr. away. Carriage Hills is not in the Ovation program, but the Legacy is. so I am good & by doing it on line will not require a US Noteriy, so no trip to US Consulate in TO.


----------



## pianoetudes

They took my contract at Fairfield Glade. It was a resale contract.


----------



## GT1

I am considering getting rid of a contract at Glade, 105KPts. Does anyone have a thought as to whether they might be interested in a contract that small? I guess I am curious if there is any criteria that can be analyzed to see what they take into Ovation and what they don't.


----------



## itsjai

I gave away quite a few resale contracts through Ovation they took most but for one they said they wont accept. The transactions have been smooth and in some cases they refunded the fees (not sure how they decide) but I am happy some money came back


----------



## pianoetudes

GT1 said:


> Does anyone have a thought as to whether they might be interested in a contract that small?



I think you over-analyze.

It is much easier to pick up the phone, dial the number, speak with Ovation department and ask the employee if they take your contract.


----------



## THope

I have a Worldmark by Wyndham points. Have you heard of them taking that back?


----------



## TUGBrian

worldmark points generally have some residual resale value (and could certainly be given away relatively quickly on the resale market) I believe.

have you attempted to offer them for free in the bargain deals section?


----------



## THope

Not yet....Need to get rid of Massanutten week first


----------



## TUGBrian

is there something that prevents you from getting rid of the worldmark week before the massanutten week?


----------



## THope

It is easier to use and may keep if I can get rid of Massanutten week


----------



## rhonda

THope said:


> I have a Worldmark by Wyndham points. Have you heard of them taking that back?


Worldmark points continue to maintain brisk resale interest. Assuming the Worldmark contract is paid off, you could either give it away or even recoup some monies if listed on TUG's bargain board.  The buyer will pay all fees on completing the transfer.


----------



## frog4ever

I called the Ovations for a Shell West home club contract and they said it would take 6 to 8 weeks for them to email me the paper work.  Anybody else heard that?   

Thanks
Kristy


----------



## Skipper Scooby

I’ve got over 600,000 points at Wyndham Smoky Mountains. I’ve decided it’s time to get rid of them due to the over $300 monthly maintenance fees. I’m trying to decide if I want to sell them or take an Ovation offer. I have a few questions about Ovation.

Can you call the Ovation number and just inquire about what they will give you or once you call they have to make you an offer?

Has anyone been able to negotiate with Wyndham a selling price or bonus points, or do they just tell you what they will give you?

What happens if they make you an offer, but you decide against it after the 21 day period? Can you call them back later to see what they will give you?

Thanks for your help!!


----------



## ronparise

Skipper Scooby said:


> I’ve got over 600,000 points at Wyndham Smoky Mountains. I’ve decided it’s time to get rid of them due to the over $300 monthly maintenance fees. I’m trying to decide if I want to sell them or take an Ovation offer. I have a few questions about Ovation.
> 
> Can you call the Ovation number and just inquire about what they will give you or once you call they have to make you an offer?
> 
> Has anyone been able to negotiate with Wyndham a selling price or bonus points, or do they just tell you what they will give you?
> 
> What happens if they make you an offer, but you decide against it after the 21 day period? Can you call them back later to see what they will give you?
> 
> Thanks for your help!!



They will offer zero. But if you negotiate really well..... it will still be zero unless you purchased from Wyndham. If that's the case they will give you 3 years of points and no fees

You could probably sell on eBay or on the tuv marketplace and get more


----------



## tschwa2

Skipper Scooby said:


> I’ve got over 600,000 points at Wyndham Smoky Mountains. I’ve decided it’s time to get rid of them due to the over $300 monthly maintenance fees. I’m trying to decide if I want to sell them or take an Ovation offer. I have a few questions about Ovation.
> 
> Can you call the Ovation number and just inquire about what they will give you or once you call they have to make you an offer?
> 
> Has anyone been able to negotiate with Wyndham a selling price or bonus points, or do they just tell you what they will give you?
> 
> What happens if they make you an offer, but you decide against it after the 21 day period? Can you call them back later to see what they will give you?
> 
> Thanks for your help!!


As far as I know there is no payment and no negotiation.  Your offer will be that they will take you points and you get nothing and pay nothing.  Or if you bought your points retail you may be offered the nothing option or you might be offered 3 years worth of points  to use over the next 3 yeas (600,000 per year).  You would lose online access and you would be able to use only at a select subset of Wyndham resorts.  I am not sure but it might be similar to Discovery inventory.  If you bought your points resale you will not get the points without MF offer only the take back for no money.  
You are not obligated if you get an offer but there is a time limit and if you do not accept you would need to call and go through the offer process again.

Wyndham has been more selective for both programs in 2017 vs late 2015 early 2016 when they seemed to at least accept back just about everything from everyone.  They can stop the program completely at any time.


----------



## needhelp

I have an Tamarack EOY odd contract that I bought resale, but the points were stripped. The seller paid the MF on the contract until this year because at the time, we thought I could credit pool the 2019 points. Unfortunately, I did not credit pool before the new system cut-off.  I am going to see if I can give the contract back through Ovation. 
Does anyone have any other suggestions, if Wyndham does not take back the contract?


----------



## tschwa2

Wyndham may make you pay the 2018 MF or they may make you wait until 2019 to use ovations.


----------



## needhelp

needhelp said:


> I have an Tamarack EOY odd contract that I bought resale, but the points were stripped. The seller paid the MF on the contract until this year because at the time, we thought I could credit pool the 2019 points. Unfortunately, I did not credit pool before the new system cut-off.  I am going to see if I can give the contract back through Ovation.
> Does anyone have any other suggestions, if Wyndham does not take back the contract?


It was eligible for take back. So the questions becomes can I replace this contract for cheaper than 1.5 yrs MF?


----------



## ronparise

actually not a bad thing  Tamarack has a very high mf rate

A Club wyndham access contract recently sold for about $5/1000 points.  Thats less than one year of maintenance fees


----------



## needhelp

ronparise said:


> actually not a bad thing  Tamarack has a very high mf rate
> 
> A Club wyndham access contract recently sold for about $5/1000 points.  Thats less than one year of maintenance fees


Thanks. Now I know that "free" is not always best.


----------



## needhelp

Can someone tell me what email address the paperwork come from? I want to make sure it's not going to "junk"


----------



## pianoetudes

It is from CIS Cisco system and email is svc-ciscoemail@wyn.com

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


----------



## needhelp

pianoetudes said:


> It is from CIS Cisco system and email is svc-ciscoemail@wyn.com
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


thank you


----------



## frog4ever

frog4ever said:


> I called the Ovations for a Shell West home club contract and they said it would take 6 to 8 weeks for them to email me the paper work.  Anybody else heard that?
> 
> Thanks
> Kristy



I got an email from Ovations to sign paperwork through a web site and received a letter about a week ago that it had gone through and they have stopped taking out the HOA fees from my bank.   I'm FREE!


----------



## dandjane1

scootr5 said:


> Marketing apparently can't settle on a name - pathways, limited edition, and now ovation.
> 
> At least it's something.


Pathway is completely different from Ovation. You get ZERO back when deeding back thru Ovation - with Pathway, you SHOULD get 20% of what you paid at purchases(at least that's what my contract says) thru DEVELOPER ONLY. Pathway was only available briefly in 2013 as I recall. Resale points/weeks are not eligible for Pathway. Don't know about Ovation re resales.


----------



## scootr5

dandjane1 said:


> Pathway is completely different from Ovation. You get ZERO back when deeding back thru Ovation - with Pathway, you SHOULD get 20% of what you paid at purchases(at least that's what my contract says) thru DEVELOPER ONLY. Pathway was only available briefly in 2013 as I recall. Resale points/weeks are not eligible for Pathway. Don't know about Ovation re resales.



If you bought from the developer, reports are 3 years of use with no fees for ovations (no free use for resale). Does your contract with Pathways actually specify 20%, or _up to 20%_?


----------



## Skipper Scooby

Limited Edition is the program where Wyndham gives you 3 years of points if Wyndham takes back your eligible (in their mind) deed back through Ovation. You will keep your same VIP status as when you were an owner.


----------



## PeterS

scootr5 said:


> If you bought from the developer, reports are 3 years of use with no fees for ovations (no free use for resale). <SNIP>



Just a note.... Who gets the 3 year limited edition is not so hard and fast and also very very subject to change. Don't assume that if you have a resale that you can't get it... but if you call and ask, be ready to accept if it is offered as it may be a one time only offer. While working with Ovation reps when we talked about this and they said the offer is a very unique offer as some resale buyers who bought many years ago and have always paid their fees promptly, may get offered the 3yr Limited Edition.

The best direction they gave me is if you have been a good long term customer of Wyndham who they made money from for years and at the moment, they want contracts at your resort (which can change), they may offer it (as a courtesy) and if it is not accepted, they note it on your account and you may not get the offer again.

So it harder and far less likely to get the 3yr Limited Edition if you have a resale but it is possible. 
But decide before you call if that is acceptable to you because if you do get it offered... grab it.

PeterS


----------



## Avislo

If that is the case, it might be wise to call every few months to see if it would be offered.


----------



## dmurray007

dmurray007 said:


> Just started Ovation process for SVC, (Shell Vacations Club)  same phone # as above. I agree it is a case by case deal, my contact was with the Legacy in AZ. but phone person assumed that it was with Carriage Hills in ON Canada, as I am a Canadian and Carriage Hills is only 1 hr. away. Carriage Hills is not in the Ovation program, but the Legacy is. so I am good & by doing it on line will not require a US Noteriy, so no trip to US Consulate in TO.


Update, On line requires an app for signing, didn't have so ended up having to go to US Consulate to get  US Noterized. Paperwork  sent, checked and received  and being processed waiting for final paperwork.


----------



## tfalk

We initiated Ovation in September to try to get rid of 2 weeks at KaEoKai on Kauai.  Finally got the confirmation
that they took one week back.  They will not take the other week back because they claim there is a 'cloud' on
the title.  We bought that week as a resale FROM KaEoKai in 1992.  Wyndham is claiming that the mortgage 
release filed for the previous owners is not correct and 'we' need to fix it before they will take it back, suggested
we hire an attorney to resolve it.  FML...


----------



## Dis.Dad

Has anyone tried to return anything in the last few months?  I called Ovation about my Palm Aire week.  I was told they would take it back but there were no points or anything. 
Thanks!


----------



## comicbookman

Dis.Dad said:


> Has anyone tried to return anything in the last few months?  I called Ovation about my Palm Aire week.  I was told they would take it back but there were no points or anything.
> Thanks!



They only offer points for the weeks they consider most desirable and that are developer purchases.  Otherwise they just relive you of them.  I have returned 3 and have not received points for any of them


----------



## Railman83

comicbookman said:


> They only offer points for the weeks they consider most desirable and that are developer purchases.  Otherwise they just relive you of them.  I have returned 3 and have not received points for any of them


What was the highest maintenance fee contract that they accepted?


----------



## comicbookman

$10.25  It was a small contract, 69,000 points (I don't remember where) That I had purchased to add my kids to the account without doing the math.


----------



## 9969hi

bnoble said:


> It's well documented that they will not take back stripped contracts (at least, not anymore.) So, you will have to wait until then to give those two back, and pay the MFs on them in the meantime.



I owned 21500 Shell Hawaii and traded them to Diamond when I purchased some points from Diamond. Diamond gave me $5000 as a trade in value. They where supposed to handle the transfer from Shell. After a year of dealing with Diamond transfer dept and their lawyer, they suggested that I try to use Ovation. About a third of the points where points I purchased from Shell, another third where points I purchased on the resale market and the other points where trade ins I purchased on the resale market from the Lawaii  Beach Club and Kona Coast. 
So I approached Ovation and they said they would take the points but I would not receive anything. I thought I had 7 contracts but I actually had 11 contracts. I did pay one fourth of 2018 maintenance fees since the take back would take 8 weeks. I recently received 11 letters Wyndham Ovation saying all contracts where cancelled and the transfer was complete.. I didn't have time to use the Hawaiian weeks but did use Shell quite a bit in California and was able to rent out Villa Bello weekends with a lot of work. 

I am relieved not to  have the $6000 maintenance fee and sleep better .


----------



## jediinprescott

Has anybody who has used Ovation been able to make reservations on line as you did before turning over to Ovation ( assuming you received the 3 year usage option) or were you told you have to call a number to make your reservations?
Mike


----------



## JohnPaul

9969hi said:


> I owned 21500 Shell Hawaii....
> So I approached Ovation and they said they would take the points but I would not receive anything. I thought I had 7 contracts but I actually had 11 contracts. I did pay one fourth of 2018 maintenance fees since the take back would take 8 weeks. I recently received 11 letters Wyndham Ovation saying all contracts where cancelled and the transfer was complete..
> 
> I am relieved not to  have the $6000 maintenance fee and sleep better .



I have Shell West purchases from multiple sources.  Online it looks like they are all dumped into one account (keeping developer count separate).  It sounds like my ownership is still made up of all the individual purchases??


----------



## Fredflintstone

comicbookman said:


> Linda,
> 
> Not sure why you are so fired up.  Many on Tug have requested that Wyndham and the other big players institute some type of take back program for deeds that are no longer wanted.  Most have proposed taking the deed back without Wyndham paying anything.  Since the resale price on most Wyndham deeds is pretty much $0, I would think anything that costs the current owner no more than the closing cost would be a deal.  It would also be good for the remaining owners, since Wyndham would then be on the hook for MF.  Even if it costs 1 years maintenance, it would not be a terrible deal for most folks.  Yes it would be an incredible deal for Wyndham, but I see it as a win all the way around.  The big variables will be whether you have to surrender all of your deeds and if resale deeds can be surrendered as well.



I think they instituted that as many states have non judicial anti deficiency laws. This means they can only foreclose on non paying owners and pay for the legal costs to get the property back. If they can get a non paying owner to deed back and pay some fees, they are much better off.

And yes, I think the exit schemes helped them to go this route as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Skipper Scooby

jediinprescott said:


> Has anybody who has used Ovation been able to make reservations on line as you did before turning over to Ovation ( assuming you received the 3 year usage option) or were you told you have to call a number to make your reservations?
> Mike


As a Limited Edition member, I am able to make online reservations as before. I don't have a home resort and I can start making a reservation at the 10 month mark.


----------



## jediinprescott

Thanks Skipper. Have you encountered any restrictions such as a limited number of resorts or any other anomalies to normal booking procedures? 
Mike


----------



## Skipper Scooby

jediinprescott said:


> Thanks Skipper. Have you encountered any restrictions such as a limited number of resorts or any other anomalies to normal booking procedures?
> Mike


You can book at any regular Wyndham resort. You cannot book any RCI, Asssociate, or Club Pass resorts.

I have added  a list that I made a last year. There might be just a few more resorts added to it since then.


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## WyndhamBarter

Don't forget my favorite new WYND resort, Wyndham Austin!

And hopefully you will also have access to the new Portland, OR location when it comes online next year.


----------



## bendadin

How does it work if the points are gone? I had a July use year with 400k points but they realigned it to January so I lost those points. I want yo give back my 400k CWA.


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## Skipper Scooby

Before you give your deed by to Wyndham, these things have to happen. You cannot owe Wyndham any money on the deed, your maintenance fees have to be paid in full,  and they are willing to take the deed back. Once they take it back, all existing upcoming reservations are canceled, including RCI and Club Pass. They might have a different start point for your use year, depending on when all of the process is finalized. Be sure to ask for the Limited Edition program so they can consider giving you the 3 years use of points. If you qualify for Limited Edition, your current VIP status will granted to you and you will have 3 years use of the points that you gave back. The points cannot be carried over from year to year.


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## jediinprescott

Thanks for all that valuable information. reply again if you think of anything else.
Mike


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## bendadin

Skipper Scooby said:


> Before you give your deed by to Wyndham, these things have to happen. You cannot owe Wyndham any money on the deed, your maintenance fees have to be paid in full,  and they are willing to take the deed back. Once they take it back, all existing upcoming reservations are canceled, including RCI and Club Pass. They might have a different start point for your use year, depending on when all of the process is finalized. Be sure to ask for the Limited Edition program so they can consider giving you the 3 years use of points. If you qualify for Limited Edition, your current VIP status will granted to you and you will have 3 years use of the points that you gave back. The points cannot be carried over from year to year.



The thing is that my points WERE there in full before they realigned the contract. I don't want anything canceled but since they realigned me and took back the points, I don't want the contract any longer.


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## bendadin

So I called in and spoke to Ovations. They said that when they take it back, they take back a full point allotment from the next use year. So since I don't have that many 2019 points (not in reservations) I would have to wait until the first of the year, when they would grab from 2020. 

I still don't know that it is particularly feasible to get rid of it. Big contract with higher MF, BUT without it my MF average is $4.86, and with it $5.05. I totally use my discounts and upgrades.


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## Richelle

Skipper Scooby said:


> Before you give your deed by to Wyndham, these things have to happen. You cannot owe Wyndham any money on the deed, your maintenance fees have to be paid in full,  and they are willing to take the deed back. Once they take it back, all existing upcoming reservations are canceled, including RCI and Club Pass. They might have a different start point for your use year, depending on when all of the process is finalized. Be sure to ask for the Limited Edition program so they can consider giving you the 3 years use of points. If you qualify for Limited Edition, your current VIP status will granted to you and you will have 3 years use of the points that you gave back. The points cannot be carried over from year to year.



All reservations are not canceled. If you have other contracts, and have enough points to cover that contract, they will not cancel reservations first. Since they do not track which points come from which contract(with the exception of bonus points and credit pool points) they have no way of knowing which points were used to make those reservations. So they do not cancel all reservations. If you credit pooled any of points from the contract you are giving back, the points from the credit pool are grabbed first, then they cancel any current reservations made with the credit pool points. If they still need more, they will grab from use year points.  If they still need more, then they cancel The other reservations made with use year points. If there are still not enough left, then they may not accept it. With the exception of credit pool reservations, canceling reservations is usually the last resort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jediinprescott

Does anybody know why they cancel reservations  in the case where they are offering up to three years of use back to the owner?
Mike


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## Skipper Scooby

If you accept their 3 years of points offer, then the points the points that you had before you accepted are taken out of the system. You will have a new type of membership that will start a new 3 year use period once the change has gone through the system.


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## jediinprescott

Skipper Scooby said:


> If you accept their 3 years of points offer, then the points the points that you had before you accepted are taken out of the system. You will have a new type of membership that will start a new 3 year use period once the change has gone through the system.


I think I understand...they take all your current points and then issue an equivalent "new type of points" that can be used with no restrictions other than those previously mentioned. Also you can make reservations as before on line. Does your account number/password remain the same? Sorry for all the questions but I wanted to make sure I understand the possible unintended consequences before I call.
Mike


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## Skipper Scooby

Yes you can make reservations online. Your account # remains the same and I think your user name and password remains the same. I did my change when there were major issues with the website and had to change my user name and password. Just be sure to ask about all your questions when you call. I made a list before I called.


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## PJE

Thanks to the people here on TUG2 my wife I and decided to give Wyndham's exit program a try. On December 27 I called the Ovation number. The agent explained how the program works. We had already sent in our maintenance fees for December. The points we had we turned over for cash to pay two months' worth of MF. By the end of these two months, we were free! Thank you.


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## PJE

PJE said:


> Thanks to the people here on TUG2 my wife I and decided to give Wyndham's exit program a try. On December 27 I called the Ovation number. The agent explained how the program works. We had already sent in our maintenance fees for December. The points we had we turned over for cash to pay two months' worth of MF. By the end of these two months, we were free! Thank you.


I would strongly suggest that if your are looking to get out of your time share with Wyndham call about the Ovation Exit program. They won't pay you anything for your timeshare, but you won't have to spend any money either.


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## jediinprescott

My Ovation experience so far... After much deliberation and research I have decided to use the Ovation program to shed my 3.7 million mostly developer purchased points over 5 contracts and 15 years of ownership. The 3.1 million contract is CWA. Much to my surprise when I finally pulled the trigger, I was told I didn't qualify for the Ovation Limited Edition program because my account was "flagged". After calls to Ovation hoping to get a different agent and calls to owner care I still could not get an explanation on who or why I was flagged. The best multiple Ovation agents could guess is because I had rented so many ( most) points out over the past 4 years. Frustrated but at least I will be out of the program. Any thoughts? BTW everything is paid off.


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## Richelle

jediinprescott said:


> My Ovation experience so far... After much deliberation and research I have decided to use the Ovation program to shed my 3.7 million mostly developer purchased points over 5 contracts and 15 years of ownership. The 3.1 million contract is CWA. Much to my surprise when I finally pulled the trigger, I was told I didn't qualify for the Ovation Limited Edition program because my account was "flagged". After calls to Ovation hoping to get a different agent and calls to owner care I still could not get an explanation on who or why I was flagged. The best multiple Ovation agents could guess is because I had rented so many ( most) points out over the past 4 years. Frustrated but at least I will be out of the program. Any thoughts? BTW everything is paid off.



The only time I’ve heard of an account getting flagged is if they used to many guest certificates because it makes then look like a renter. What’s weird is I know of someone who got flagged, but they used their allotted free ones. They didn’t buy extra. They were Platinum so they had 15 free ones. So the number must be less then 15 which doesn’t make sense. Why give them 15 if you’re going to flag them for using them? No one could tell them how long they would be flagged for. They are a TUG user. Hopefully they will speak up if they see this thread. They might have more insight on this.


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## raygo123

Richelle said:


> The only time I’ve heard of an account getting flagged is if they used to many guest certificates because it makes then look like a renter. What’s weird is I know of someone who got flagged, but they used their allotted free ones. They didn’t buy extra. They were Platinum so they had 15 free ones. So the number must be less then 15 which doesn’t make sense. Why give them 15 if you’re going to flag them for using them? No one could tell them how long they would be flagged for. They are a TUG user. Hopefully they will speak up if they see this thread. They might have more insight on this.


If you have one million and one points you receive 30.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## Jan M.

Richelle said:


> The only time I’ve heard of an account getting flagged is if they used to many guest certificates because it makes then look like a renter. What’s weird is I know of someone who got flagged, but they used their allotted free ones. They didn’t buy extra. They were Platinum so they had 15 free ones. So the number must be less then 15 which doesn’t make sense. Why give them 15 if you’re going to flag them for using them? No one could tell them how long they would be flagged for. They are a TUG user. Hopefully they will speak up if they see this thread. They might have more insight on this.



From what people I know were told it isn't necessarily the number of guest certificates you use rather the percentage of your points you put guest certificates on. So you could only be using a few of your free guest certificates but if they were high point reservations that would put over the percentage that gets your account flagged.


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## Richelle

raygo123 said:


> If you have one million and one points you receive 30.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk



I’m aware if that, thanks.


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## freeatlastfreeatlast

Hey, just wanted to post and say thank you for all the help from this forum and this thread in my research. Getting out of a timeshare is definitely stressful and at times, feels impossible and forever stuck in a purgatory of increasing maintenance fees, but y'all had information here that I couldn't find anywhere else (and wasn't bombarded with ads charging fees to exit) ... That said! I thought I'd pay it forward with some updates of current situation.

Ovation has been renamed to Certified Exit. They have a webpage with some information (link active as of 1/1/2021): https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/help/certified-exit

In our situation, we were part of Fairfield from many years ago and got "grandfathered" into what is now Club Wyndham Access (CWA), so we're not considered resale, had paid off everything and was just paying maintenance fees. The "Limited Edition" option was available to us (where you have 3 more years of points without paying fees), but this may depend on your "paid off" status. For the 3 years, your points are at your rate (any "rollover" points are also forfeited because they essentially give you a new 3 year contract). You can book 10 months in advance with this program. And the 3 years start date is based on quarters so if you cancelled in March, your first year would "start" on April (2020) and the 1st year would "end" March (2021).  

Also, you lose any associated points with RCI. The exit process is estimated to take about 4 months maximum, and during that time you still have to pay for maintenance fees for those 4 months. But that's it. No more fees afterwards. Alas, you no longer have a timeshare and gain nothing back .. except your financial freedom  

Like everyone else has said before, I'm just really grateful to be out of this. Thank you all for your help


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## Jan M.

freeatlastfreeatlast said:


> In our situation, we were part of Fairfield from many years ago and got "grandfathered" into what is now Club Wyndham Access (CWA)



Just to make sure other people reading this aren't confused. There are several types of CWP (Club Wyndham Plus) points:  CWS (Club Wyndham Select), CWA (Club Wyndham Access), PR (Presidential Reserve), Margaritaville.  If you own a specific type of points it doesn't grandfather you into the other type of points no matter how long you've owned. However at different timeframes you can book the inventory from the other types of points not just the inventory available to you through what you own.


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## TheHolleys87

Duplicating my own post, so no matter which thread people find, they’ll see this:
We are in process of giving back our Shell points to Wyndham, and when the process is complete I’ll post a summary of the process and timeline (it’s not quick!). But we learned there are separate phone numbers for the Wyndham, Worldmark and Shell Certified Exit programs, so here they are:

Wyndham 1-855-312-9040
Worldmark 1-855-312-9041
Shell 1-866-313-8547


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## liongate88

Does Ovation program for Wyndham only for developer purchase? Or they accept resale as well? Thanks


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## tschwa2

liongate88 said:


> Does Ovation program for Wyndham only for developer purchase? Or they accept resale as well? Thanks


In general they accept all contracts.  It is now called certified exit.  Only developer points are given the option of 3 years use with no MF.  The give back and get nothing is available to resale owners.  There are a few resorts that are not accepted.  That list can change.  You have to call and they have to look at your account to make that determination but I think there is only about 5-6 not accepted.


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## liongate88

tschwa2 said:


> In general they accept all contracts.  It is now called certified exit.  Only developer points are given the option of 3 years use with no MF.  The give back and get nothing is available to resale owners.  There are a few resorts that are not accepted.  That list can change.  You have to call and they have to look at your account to make that determination but I think there is only about 5-6 not accepted.


Thanks


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## Jan M.

Is it true that if you've used Ovations or Certified Exit as it's called now that you can never make a developer purchase after that?


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## theo

Jan M. said:


> Is it true that if you've used Ovations or Certified Exit as it's called now that you can never make a developer purchase after that?



I have no idea, but I'm prompted to wonder why anyone who likely paid multiple thousands of dollars for something (that they later ending up giving back for free) would somehow *want* to later voluntarily step up and repeat that same experience all over again.


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## paxsarah

theo said:


> I have no idea, but I'm prompted to wonder why anyone who likely paid multiple thousands of dollars for something (that they later ending up giving back for free) would somehow *want* to later voluntarily step up and repeat that same experience all over again.


I've given back contracts but kept others (all resale). I could imagine a situation in which someone like me might want to purchase developer with PIC to get to a VIP level and lower MFs (or at least would have under the previous levels with unlimited housekeeping; not so sure about the current ones).


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## SmithOp

Jan M. said:


> Is it true that if you've used Ovations or Certified Exit as it's called now that you can never make a developer purchase after that?



Be interesting if they put you on the do not gift list for developer presentations.


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## paxsarah

SmithOp said:


> Be interesting if they put you on the do not gift list for developer presentations.


I have not been asked to do an update since I returned two contracts in 2019, though I've only had three Wyndham stays in that time (along with two RCI exchanges elsewhere). My next is coming up in June so we'll have to see.


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## raygo123

paxsarah said:


> I've given back contracts but kept others (all resale). I could imagine a situation in which someone like me might want to purchase developer with PIC to get to a VIP level and lower MFs (or at least would have under the previous levels with unlimited housekeeping; not so sure about the current ones).


I did the same thing in 2009. A Vida.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2

Jan M. said:


> Is it true that if you've used Ovations or Certified Exit as it's called now that you can never make a developer purchase after that?


I believe if you turn in all of your contracts and get the 3 year usage then there is a clause about getting out completely and not becoming an owner again.  I don't believe it applies if you are giving back one or more but keeping others.


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## schoolmarm

Jan M. said:


> Is it true that if you've used Ovations or Certified Exit as it's called now that you can never make a developer purchase after that?



In November of 2020, I made a developer purchase through telesales to enroll a PIC property. Earlier that year I used Ovations to give back a Sedona contract (bought resale for a couple hundred dollars). I needed to reduce my MFs, and had an abundance of points during COVID. When it came time to do the PIC they had to do something special to allow me to make the telesales purchase, but it was done. In retrospect I should have done this all at once, but I didn't. IF you give back ALL your contracts, you couldn't use Ovations. I still had two contracts (Bali Hai resale and National Harbor retail). 

Things might be different with Certified Exit.


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## J Man

comicbookman said:


> Linda,
> 
> Not sure why you are so fired up.  Many on Tug have requested that Wyndham and the other big players institute some type of take back program for deeds that are no longer wanted.  Most have proposed taking the deed back without Wyndham paying anything.  Since the resale price on most Wyndham deeds is pretty much $0, I would think anything that costs the current owner no more than the closing cost would be a deal.  It would also be good for the remaining owners, since Wyndham would then be on the hook for MF.  Even if it costs 1 years maintenance, it would not be a terrible deal for most folks.  Yes it would be an incredible deal for Wyndham, but I see it as a win all the way around.  The big variables will be whether you have to surrender all of your deeds and if resale deeds can be surrendered as well.


===============

CBMan,
I'm just jumping in on this thread because I recently paid my MF on my Pahio Bali Hai 2BR unit in Kauai.  It just so happens that I asked the Wyndham folks if they had a buy-back program and they told me they did.  Well . . . more like "take back."  But to your point, if the owner really wants out due to any reason and Wyndham pays all closing costs, seems a good deal.  And I agree, EVERYONE gets something they want.  In our case, we've owned this unit since 2000 (EOY) and always transfer the points to RCI.  We find that we can use the large number of points to take multiple vacations every year.  It's especially helpful that we are now retired and are unrestricted by work schedules.  This allows us to get last minute deals (low points exchanges) from RCI.  BUT . . . between the $1,300+ MF and the ever-climbing FEES by RCI, we've decided we can do better on our own.  Honestly, RCI FEES are ridiculous: Annual membership, Platinum add-on, exchange fees, etc.  The next time my Pahio MF comes up, (after I've burned all my current RCI points) I think the "give back" program will be my path.
J Man
North Carolina


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