# Fairfield...Just Joined Today



## catchdawn (Feb 11, 2007)

We are trying out the Fairfield member benefits out for two years.. It is where you get 300,000 points and you have  two years to use it and you have the leisure plan included .. This give you a chance to use it and try it and the same offer you were offered  today is the same in two years. YOu are not  a owner it is kind like just testing the waters..
Has anyonne started at this point? 

I am hoping we like Fairfield and hope this works out for us . We don't have much money to vacation and thought this may be a good way to vacation since we ware going to be saving yearly to go somewhere.. Please let me know if it is easy to sell in case you need to ?? With this option you can get whatever size Bedroom you need on that vacation..


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 11, 2007)

*Welcome -- You Came To The Right Place.*

I don't know much about FairField timeshares, except that they are well regarded. 

We took a FairField timeshare sales tour in Las Vegas once -- didn't buy (too expensive).  Before they turned us loose, they offered us 1 of their _Try Before You Buy_ deals -- not sure how many FairField points that included, but we turned it down anyhow because the temporary trial deal seemed pricey & also because by then we were firmly into "used" (resale) timeshares instead of "new," after coming to realize that "new" & "used" are meaningless when it comes to timeshares. 

I have read repeatedly right here on TUG that 1 big advantage of FairField timeshare points is their availability on the resale market for considerably less than it costs to buy them directly from FairField. 

FairField's parent company underwent a big corporate reorganization not long ago that involved spinning off & renaming the timeshare & hotel & "hospitality" components.  What formerly was known as Cendant is now known as Wyndham.  I don't know whether that means the FairField timeshare resorts & FairField timeshare points are also renamed Wyndham.  Somebody else on TUG is bound to know, however, & no doubt will set us all straight on that. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## grest (Feb 12, 2007)

I really don't know a thing about Fairfield...just wanted to welcome you to TUG!
Connie


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## catchdawn (Feb 12, 2007)

*Please help??*

Thanks for the welcome..

What we were offered was for 27,500 + 8% interest 154,000 points that double for two years after Purchasing . Of coarse after our two years trial. 

We get leisuere , Unlimted RCI bonus weeks RCI enrollment ambassador rewards and point rental for $27,349 . The double bonus points is only for two years of the membership. I am trying to understand if this is a good deal it looks good on paper and of coarse the sales guy is going to agree. But as OWNERS Now can you help me understand what is a good deal in timesharing?

Is it better to purchase used?  

It just seems so expensive to pay 100 a month then to pay for flights and activities I added it up we will have to put asde another 100.00 for vacation to afford these getaways verses just talking the Wyndam deals 3/2 for 79-100 a weekend I found after I signed . Now I am thinking was this right and did we get a good deal? We have 7 days to cancel so please as owners Help me understand if what I am getting is a good deal .. 
Thanks for all your time


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## timeos2 (Feb 12, 2007)

*The idea is great - but buy resale!*



catchdawn said:


> Thanks for the welcome..
> 
> What we were offered was for 27,500 + 8% interest 154,000 points that double for two years after Purchasing . Of coarse after our two years trial.
> 
> ...



First off if you can cancel the current deal - even if it's just the "trial" - do it!  FF (now called Wyndham) is a great system and one that can be easily adjusted to fit how you want to vacation. But the price from the Developer is way too high.  The 154,000 points you speak of that they offered at $27,349 (that number would drop if you kept at them but never below $.11 - .13/point - your at a whopping $.17/point at that rate!) could be yours forever at $4620 - which is the HIGH end for resale points. So yes, buy resale. 

I love the Wyndham system and I'm sure you'd be very happy in it. But that upfront money only gets you one thing. The ownership of XXXX points, the annual fees they cost and the right to use them in the Wyndham system. There is no difference between the "used" and "new" except over $23,000. at the current quote. But even if the difference was "only" $10,000 don't you have better uses for that money and still enjoy the FF system?  FF is one of the great values in multiresort based timesharing. But only at resale price. At retail you are guaranteed to have lost at least 70% of the purchase price the moment your 7 day rescind period ends. With resale you already have purchased at the resale price so you have very little exposure. Rescind now, go shopping for a nice big package of FF Points resale and enjoy the great FF/Wyndham system on the cheap. If you still plan to buy resale (in other words you listen to the sales weasels) then my advice is forget it. Don't buy at all. You are far better off renting or using weekend getaways than buying at retail.  That goes for non-Fairfield as well.


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 12, 2007)

Catchdawn . . .

I would high recommend that you join the Fairfield/Wyndham specific YahooGroup.  You can subscribe by writing them at:  Fairfield_timeshare-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .  While there are a lot of knowledgable people in the FF system here on TUG who also participate at that YahooGroup, you will find the internal resources available to you to be invaluable as you try to learn the FF system and how to use it to your best advantage.

Timeos2 gives you great advice to cancel what you have bought, if you can.  The prices paid to developers, especially for the "sampling" program are outrageously high.  On paper they can of course make the "deal" look good.  Start with the average vacation expense for lodging at $100/day times 7 days for $700 per week.  Multiply that by 25 years and your at $17,500 PLUS the cost of inflation over time, and that's just for a basic cheap hotel.  Double that if you like to vacation in one or two bedroom suites . . . maybe even triple it.  They will get the "math" to work out to the point where they can imply one would be foolish NOT to buy if they plan on vacationing for the rest of their lives.  BUT . . .

There are better deals out there, through the resale market ("used" as you referred to it).  You can get a lot of great advice from the YahooGroup on this too . . . there are FF resorts to consider and others to avoid.

No you won't be able to get whatever size unit you want with your package.  Your points have a value and the size and location of the resort will determine how many points it will require to get the unit of your choice.  You may or may not have enough points to get to where you have your dream vacation heart set on.  They will actually use that to their advantage when it's time to sell you on MORE POINTS.  (Yes, that is inevitable!  They will never stop trying to sell you more every time you go and stay at a FF/Wyndham resort.)

If you buy from the developer and it gets past the 7 day rescind period, you will be stuck paying not only the bank note, but also the maintenance fees on what you have bought.  If you decide to try to sell it, you will not get anywhere near what you paid for it. These things bought from the developers depreciate and drop in value faster than an automobile.

Bottom line, get out of it while you can.  There are always "deals" out there via the developer if after doing your homework, you really feel that buying directly from FF/Wyndham is in your best interest and will meet your future vacationing plans and needs.   There are some programs that do make paying the outrageous prices somewhat worth it . . . that is always debated on the YahooGroup.  Joining and reading the posts there will help you to understand the pros and cons . . . and hopefully force you to seriously evaluate why you would buy a timeshare, and how you would use it.  After that happens, you will be in a better place to know what you should do in terms of buying (or not).

Best wishes in your evaluation and decision making process.  Obviously, with thousands of happy timeshare owners here on TUG and over on the YahooGroup for FF/Wyndham, people like the vacationing opportunities it brings to us.  The trick is to get as much as possible out of the money you spend on it for how you will use it in the future.

Yvonne


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## catchdawn (Feb 12, 2007)

WOW what great information.

I will put in a cancellation since this does not seem to be a good deal . I think it will be best to understand it better . Resale might be our option due to money being tight but of coarse needing a break in life.. It is just the three of us.. Right now we are under a trial two year deal but just signed up yesterday and it says we have a 7 day cancelation period. That price of 27,000  was what I will pay after my two year trial period . Which we pay 95.00 a month and get 300,000 points for the whole two years contract. total for two years $2,300.00 @ 8% interest

After that is when we purchase the 27,000 8% interest to get the deed and the double points buying in. 
who knows what monthly fee that will be ...
which I have learned is crazy and I do think it is a lot of money .. 
I want to learn more about the resale end before jumping in again.. Thanks so much for all your help and I
 will check out that yahoo group...  

Thanks


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## acesneights (Feb 12, 2007)

For $2300 you can easily buy 154,000 resale points and owe ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at the end of two years!!!!!!

Save your $27,000 @ 8% interest and buy another 154K each year with the 8% interest.

In 15 years you will have 2.5 million points and still have $27,000 in the bank!

How's that for a better deal!

Stan


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## EAM (Feb 13, 2007)

*The one known disadvantage of resale points*

Fairfield no longer counts resale points towards the levels (300K VIP, 500K Gold VIP, 1M platinum VIP) needed for VIP benefits.  VIP benefits are subject to change at Fairfield's discretion.  Although those who have the benefits do enjoy them, it is questionable whether or not they are worth the significant difference in price between purchasing resale and purchasing from Fairfield, particularly since Fairfield can arbitrarily eliminate or modify any or all VIP benefits.  Many of the benefits are fairly minimal (early checkin, free newspaper M-F while staying at a Fairfield resort, free towel exchange and trash removal once per week) or not really that helpful to those with limited vacation time who must plan their vacations far in advance (e.g. points discounts at 60 days before checkin, unit size upgrade close to checkin).  

Fairfield salesmen have made other allegations about the disadvantages of resale points; but, as far as I know, the truth of these allegations has not been confirmed.


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## acesneights (Feb 13, 2007)

No resale toward VIP dates back to 2003.

The alleged resale restrictions have been around forever and have gotten more fanciful as the gap between retail and resale continues to widen.

The Diamond level VIP has been around for more than 10 years.

The proposed single purchase to get VIP makes resale even more attractive, who is going to buy $200,000 of retail at a single purchase that will be worth $10,000 as soon as you close?

Restricting resale to the home resort essentially withdraws resale from the VOA trust as you would no longer be able to make reservations at any other FF resort. If anything it makes current resale more desireable before supposed restrictions kick in.

Also who would buy into a point system that goes from 100 resorts to 1 on resale?

Stan


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## sally (Feb 15, 2007)

*retail advantages......*

hello,....tell me where I am wrong.But,some here continue to inform people that if you do not buy resale you are a fool!
Our purchases have all been from the developers for specific reasons....#1) our summer week in wisconsins door county, is a fixed week at the same resort, same unit # every year.(try getting that resale,at that resort..not likely)  #2 Our Grand Mayan Riviera Maya week guarentee's us a grand mayan unit if ordered 6 months in advance.(many exchangers try to get into the Grand units only to be bumped down to the regular palace units on check- in.This will NEVER happen to us.)Plus we have the option of the additional week per year if needed for the price of an extra m-fee.this is a NICE option for family. (not being offered soon on resales.) #3..We have our week at Glacier Canyon WIS. Dells ...this includes waterpark priveledges year round for up to 10 in our group (NICE)!! Also and most importantly we get a 3 month booking preference ahead of anyone because we have glacier canyon as our home resort! Lets not underestimate how important that feature is!!Have you ever tried to get a summer week in wisconsin??
So...Yes, there are some advantages from paying a little extra from the developer.    
We payed $6000. for a blue-green red week back in 1985....That was the best $$$$ we have ever spent,as we used it for many super trades...although, it seems increasingly harder as time moves forward to get the weeks and resorts you want through R.C.I. This is why we are now positioned like we are. We found awesome resorts in great spots,that we look forward to going to each year!!
sally


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## mshatty (Feb 15, 2007)

Sally,

You have made all good points.  I think that most of the advice on buying FF through a resale is primarily because of the huge disparity between developer prices and resale prices.  It is so big, that you can pay the extra transaction fees and get less point discounts and unit upgrades and still come out way ahead financially.

The advice is given to make sure the buyer's eyes are open to all possibilities.  For most, the amount of money saved will be a major factor in their decision.


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## sally (Feb 15, 2007)

*Yes....but...*

Most will realize that what they did not know..or really were not told as they flipped through that exciting R.C.I./interval book ,is that getting to stay in those fabulous resorts is much harder then they claim.(unless...you are extremely flexible with resorts and time to go.And that just s#cks!!)Trying to make it all work with a family is very tough.
sally


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## randyz (Feb 15, 2007)

sally said:


> Most will realize that what they did not know..or really were not told as they flipped through that exciting R.C.I./interval book ,is that getting to stay in those fabulous resorts is much harder then they claim.(unless...you are extremely flexible with resorts and time to go.And that just s#cks!!)Trying to make it all work with a family is very tough.
> sally



I hear you Sally, trying to do exchanges through II with a family has been terrible for me. Joined FSP for points just because of that and have been extremely satisfied. Like you, since joining I have discovered the advantages of a home resort at certain times, just for the certainty. That was magnified in the last year when I blended families, with 4 teens, I need to be assured that there will be the right kind of accomodation. 

I am sure that 5 years from now, I will be able to identify more with the points are points philosophy and I can preferably travel at less busy times.

Randy


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## wise41hr (Feb 15, 2007)

Catchdawn,
Sounds like you did the same thing my wife and I did 2-3 weeks ago.  I think Sally raised some valid points... but it sounds like she bought specific weeks, whereas you (and I) bought points.  Sounds like she vacations differently than I do, and what she did makes a lot of sense for her circumstances.  But back to your situation... I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will tell you that after my wife and I got home and the old synapses started firing again, I decided that this was an awful lot of money for something I could take my time and buy resale at a fraction of the cost.  So we made the decision to cancel the contract.  I would suggest that you read the small book you should have gotten (about the size of a paperback novel).  According to the book, the cancellation grace period is 10 days, not 7.  Some States (Texas, where I live, is one of them) have a requirement that transactions like this have a 7 day grace period, but that's a minimum.  Fairfield's materials indicate that their 10-day grace period takes precedence (which is fine since it's longer than the State mandated period).  Just be sure you send your letter by certified mail.


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## sally (Feb 16, 2007)

*sage advice...*

If home resort has no advantage...by all means buy resale.But if it does hold any,a few extra bucks now, is well worth the trouble.
sally


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## catchdawn (Feb 16, 2007)

I guess for us we just could not afford it .. When you tell them that they bring out all the things like peple having heart attacks from stress from NOT having a timeshare or vacation time. Oh and it is just 3.00 a  day to get this package. We fell for it all but went home and looked at our bills and said
 no way can we do it .. This is just a dream world we fell into and brought it home with us then came to reality .. So We did cancel ..I sent out the cancelation papers and they recieved it today certified mail... So We will get our downpayment back that we put on a credit card  which was a bad choice in itself we had just come out of Bankruptcy and try not to do all the stuff that got us there to begin with.. We even told the sales guy we really do not make any descions without waiting 24-48hrs on it but some how we signed up thinking we can do this .. I am glad we were able to cancel .. They say everybody vacations but I think everybody wants to vacation but   with jobs today it is hard to both get off at the same time then to have extra money to spend while on vacation.. Plus paying 100.00 a month to have a nice resort to relax in .. I guess you just have to be in a better place then where we are . I a surprised that a salesman took advantage of our situation making it so easy to buy but I guess that is what they do .. I don't blame them I just have to learn to be stronger and when we are ina  better place buy Resale... Thanks so much for all your great information. I just needed a confirmation of what I was really doing with this timeshare deal... But it is just not for us right now.. Never know what may be in the future... Thanks again...


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## ricoba (Feb 17, 2007)

It looks like you made a great decision to come here and ask questions and then cancel.  

Having just come out of bankruptcy, it's a great idea to avoid making the same mistakes that put you there in the first place.  Congratulate yourself for asking questions here and getting out of the contract while you still could.   

While timesharing may not be for you now, stick around here, and ask questions and read and learn and maybe someday in the future you can find a way to get a great deal on a *resale*.

Enjoy,

Rick


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 17, 2007)

You want definitely want VIP status (really cheaply) do this:

1) Buy a resale deeded fixed or floating week at the FF resort you want to have as your "home" resort. 

2) Upgrade to points, standard fee is $2,500. Some resorts have $995 promotions.

3) You are now a VIP points owner for about 1/5 of the price you were quoted.

You then also have a two month revservation window in front of all other points owners (whose "home" is a different resort) for your  resort.

I still think buying the points resale is a better value, the VIP status is relatively worthless.

John Faeth

PS. If a timeshare salesman's lips are moving he is either telling a lie or about to tell one.....


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## EAM (Feb 17, 2007)

*This approach does not work any more*



johnmfaeth said:


> You want definitely want VIP status (really cheaply) do this:
> 
> 1) Buy a resale deeded fixed or floating week at the FF resort you want to have as your "home" resort.
> 
> ...


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## johnmfaeth (Feb 17, 2007)

Hi EAM,

Thanks for correcting my error. 

The VIP is almost worthless in my opinion. In fact, I got my first points just a month ago as part of a resale purchase. But I have been a fixed and floating week owner of many (too many?) FF units since 2001. 

Since the only Wyndham V.O. resorts I use are the two St. Thomas properties, I greatly prefer the floating weeks to points. Wyndham has largely given up on selling floating weeks because they are truly the right product for many folks who end up getting sold points. Others really want the resort flexibility, for them points may be good.

I find the higher MF's (for the same units) to be a ripoff and the difficulty in getting what you want to be the biggest arguments against them. I'm not the type who can plan a year in advance.

John


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## acesneights (Feb 18, 2007)

sally said:


> hello,....tell me where I am wrong.But,some here continue to inform people that if you do not buy resale you are a fool!
> Our purchases have all been from the developers for specific reasons....#1) our summer week in wisconsins door county, is a fixed week at the same resort, same unit # every year.(try getting that resale,at that resort..not likely)  #2 Our Grand Mayan Riviera Maya week guarentee's us a grand mayan unit if ordered 6 months in advance.(many exchangers try to get into the Grand units only to be bumped down to the regular palace units on check- in.This will NEVER happen to us.)Plus we have the option of the additional week per year if needed for the price of an extra m-fee.this is a NICE option for family. (not being offered soon on resales.) #3..We have our week at Glacier Canyon WIS. Dells ...this includes waterpark priveledges year round for up to 10 in our group (NICE)!! Also and most importantly we get a 3 month booking preference ahead of anyone because we have glacier canyon as our home resort! Lets not underestimate how important that feature is!!Have you ever tried to get a summer week in wisconsin??
> So...Yes, there are some advantages from paying a little extra from the developer.
> We payed $6000. for a blue-green red week back in 1985....That was the best $$$$ we have ever spent,as we used it for many super trades...although, it seems increasingly harder as time moves forward to get the weeks and resorts you want through R.C.I. This is why we are now positioned like we are. We found awesome resorts in great spots,that we look forward to going to each year!!
> sally



This is a FF thread, "points are points".

Stan


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## sally (Feb 19, 2007)

*Stan.....*

We own 154000 ff points ,purchased from the developer at Glacier Canyon Wisconsin Dells Wilderness resort.
Purchasing from the resort gives us a 3 month jump on anyone in the ff system on reserving the units at Glacier Canyon.
This is the brand new part of the Wilderness.
Good luck getting into these prime units in a prime resort.We will get in before you ,every time.Hence the reason for paying extra to the developer.Point is.... What good is a timeshare ,if you can not get into the unit you want,when you want?? 
sally    

points may be points but....my points hold more value for my vacationing needs.


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## acesneights (Feb 19, 2007)

sally said:


> We own 154000 ff points ,purchased from the developer at Glacier Canyon Wisconsin Dells Wilderness resort.
> Purchasing from the resort gives us a 3 month jump on anyone in the ff system on reserving the units at Glacier Canyon.
> This is the brand new part of the Wilderness.
> Good luck getting into these prime units in a prime resort.We will get in before you ,every time.Hence the reason for paying extra to the developer.Point is.... What good is a timeshare ,if you can not get into the unit you want,when you want??
> ...



Good luck getting at 13 months if you can't grab it at 8 am on the 13 month day. If it's as hot as you say, the units will be gone in minutes.

But you paid 20 times as much as resale for the privilege of trying to get Wisconsin in the summer with no guarantee you can get it before all the other UDI owners.

Good luck.

And any resale owners at WD will have exactly the same chance as you to get a prime summer week, even if they paid 10 or 20 times less for their points. There may not be much resale now, but a few years down the road, there will be.

And at that point you will be cursing about why I paid top dollar to the resort only to have to compete with 51 resale owners all trying to get that same prime week.



Stan


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## bnoble (Feb 19, 2007)

There are a few places where ARP seems to matter: peak summer at Myrtle Beach, Christmas weeks at Bonnet Creek, and a few others.  It remains to be seen whether the new Dells property will be one of them.


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## sally (Feb 19, 2007)

*hello Stan....*

You are correct,calling for that summer week or specific date in the first hour is critical.
What I see and you might not is that I would rather compete with say 120 potential vacationers for say july 22,then 1500 potential vacationers.Do you see that it IS possible, I might miss my first week choice ,but it is highly unlikely that I will keep being pushed out of my reservations,because of the odds involved.We purchased from the developer at about 10 cents a point,with several bonus weeks that have no expiration on them.The wilderness is a premier resort with limited timeshare units.The week includes unlimited access to quite possibly the largest indoor/outdoor waterpark system in the world.With a large family, admission alone could be worth $400.a day.
You see ,to me, a hope of getting into a resort,is not the same as actually getting in.We have been doing the timeshare thing for about 20 years,and have had many, many frustrations with #1 rci,#2 I.I., and #3 resorts that bribe thier way into ratings and awards.The resale thing is awesome if you can get a specific week or some other edge or perk above the average points owner,that is competing against you.They are just not adding enough quality resorts, at the same rate they are selling timeshares.We saw that this would be the future,by crunching numbers of sales vs. exsisting and planned resorts. 
I hope I do not seem upity ,this is just the way we thought was the best way to use the system,with the least hassle.
sally


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## sally (Feb 19, 2007)

*oh and Stan....*

Good luck getting a week at the wilderness for you and your family,for the rest of your lives,for resale $770.........($15,400. divided by 20 times less price of developer=$770.)
A week you can ACTUALLY get when you want!!
 when you find the above deal,you say I will be cursing ,I believe hell will be freezing over.
sally


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## acesneights (Feb 19, 2007)

You may believe that there will never be any resale points available at WD, and that full retail is the only way to get in there for summer, but I am certain there will be resale points available within the next three years, maybe not for a penny a point but close.

10 cents a point is not the current retail, I'm sure.

Stan


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## sally (Feb 20, 2007)

*hmmmm....*

and the years tick by...as Stan waits for a resale to open up in the Dells..Meanwhile a nasty surge in the inflation index makes that timeshare cost double what he wished he bought it for.His kids are now too old to fully enjoy the attractions the dells offer...and the cruel hands of time have lept forward.
Life is short,waiting for some things,in the big picture, just do not make all that much sense.
IMHO
sally

would you like a sales ticket for
my developer purchase at 10 cents a point?


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 20, 2007)

sally said:


> and the years tick by...as Stan waits for a resale to open up in the Dells..Meanwhile a nasty surge in the inflation index makes that timeshare cost double what he wished he bought it for.His kids are now too old to fully enjoy the attractions the dells offer...and the cruel hands of time have lept forward.
> Life is short,waiting for some things,in the big picture, just do not make all that much sense.
> IMHO
> sally
> ...



Sally,
10 cents a point is really low in developer's purchase for a small size purchase.  Is it the true cost, or the cost you deduct all the possible benefits gives to you?  Can you confirm it?

By the way, I doubt Stan's kids will miss these opportunity, and Stan will miss these since it is a long way drive to him.

Since you live around that area, it is time vs money decision.  And even if it get to resell market, it probably will not hit to the bottom in the first few years.  If the current trend continue, it probably will take 5 to 6 year to see 1/10 or less of these in resell market.  So it all depends on in the 1st couple year, if FF developer will actually deposit something into RCI or not.  

Since you already make decision to choice time, enjoy the purchase.  I believe 154k will allow you to reserve 1 week in prime time.  If 1Br not enough, you can only get 3 or 4 days in ARP period.  But I don't think you will really fighting with 120 owners.  If owner does not have enough points for 3 days stay, they can not use ARP period.  If it take a long drive, it probably will not make sense for owner with less than 1 wk point to make ARP reservation.  And each unit has less than 48 full weeks that can really be selling, you probably will fight less than 30 owners the most for a week.

Jya-Ning


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## sally (Feb 20, 2007)

*oh !! no,no,no...*

30 people competing for a summer week in Glacier Canyon?? Are you goofing??
If you are a parent with a timeshare and kids,on summer vacation, where do you think your kids want to go??I really think having free admittance to the worlds largest water park is going to hold some sway.
IT remains to be seen??? This resort 
 will be very, very,hard to book on a summer week.
sally


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## acesneights (Feb 20, 2007)

1/3 of the total points are prime summer weeks, so there would never be more than 3 owners competing for totality of the summer weeks, and the non-prime owners don't have enough points to ARP a summer week, so there is no competition for the totality of prime weeks, unless they get carved up into 3 or 4 days tranches in which case there would be on average 3 owners for each tranche. 

It's not like Mardi Gras where there is only one week each year.

I bet I could get a summer week at WD using the RPL, or a VIP RARP, don't need to spend the current 16.5 cents a point to get there.

You may think WD is the only place to vacation in the summer but MB gets over 4 million visitors a year, more people than live in the state of Wisconsin.

And Jya-Ning is right, I wouldn't drive 20 hours to visit WD, when I'm 3 hours from the Atlantic Ocean. If you're 1500 miles from a coast, then the largest water park in the world is a big deal.

Stan


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 20, 2007)

The novelty of water parks in the midwest (the claim to fame of the Dells) is losing its luster too.  In Milwaukee alone, there are at least two, maybe even three . . . with another two being considered as hotels look to compete for off-peak winter business for families.


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## bnoble (Feb 20, 2007)

Sandusky, OH (home of the Roller Coaster Capital of the World) now has three indoor parks to augment the outdoor one Cedar Fair owns.  One of those indoor parks is rather small, another is also owned by Cedar Fair (for synergy with Cedar Point).  The third, however, is Kalahari.  As in the Wisconsin Kalahari.  And, last I read, they are nearly doubling the waterpark space and adding more convention facilities.  As it's located smack in the middle of Cleveland and Detroit, less than five hours drive from Cincinatti, and less than three from Columbus, they've got a much bigger population base to draw from than the Dells, too.

Oh, and Cincinatti is getting an indoor park just outside of Kings Island, which recently doubled its outdoor waterpark.  Six Flags just built a huge waterpark from scratch in Chicago a year or two ago.  Geauga Lake (just outside of Cleveland) has doubled the size of its waterpark in the last few years.

The Dells are great, but it's no longer the case that they've got the corner on the waterpark market.  And, the folks in New Braunfels, TX might have argued that they never had that market cornered in the first place.  

What's more, if I ask folks around here in SE Michigan your question:


> If you are a parent with a timeshare and kids,on summer vacation, where do you think your kids want to go??


then I'm afraid the two answers I hear most often are the scourges of the timeshare universe: Orlando and Williamsburg.

No fooling!


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 20, 2007)

Sally:

Clam down.  You wrote



sally said:


> What I see and you might not is that I would rather compete with say 120 potential vacationers for say july 22,then 1500 potential vacationers.




And I am pretty sure you are talking about ARP period.  So I just point to you, that if there is only one week in the whole year that people want to get in, as home resort owner, you should have at least 1/30 chance instead of 1/120 chance to get a unit if you make call at ARP period.  So, if there is about 8 prime week, you have 1/4 chances to get in.

Stan use total point value in prime time / total point in whole year, and get an estimate 1/3.  So to get a week in prime time, you will compete with no more than 3 person.

But that resort is UDI resort, so it means you don't have 3 month, you have only 1 1/2 month.  At 11 1/2 month, RARP can get in with all their points.  At 11 month VIP can get in with all their points.  Also, IMHO, 1/3 is just an estimate, you should have people with enough points want to exchange to other places, people that have no idea they need to call in at 13 month sharp, people that believe they can only travel in one week of these prime time, but you would also have home owners with more points that can reserve like 3 or 4 BD only get 1 BD, since your point range can only hold 1 BD, that means you will more likely compete with more owners that trade down.  However, no matter how you look at it, you can not have too many people compete with you at ARP period.  Although even with 1/3 you could still loss all the competion in the prime week.  And if you accidentally wait till 11 1/2 or 11 month, your chance will be much smaller

These calculation has nothing to do with how many people will want to get into that resort at that time, it merely reflects what FF ARP actually means, since non owner will not involve in these period.  Unless FF mess with the inventory, otherwise, even the whole world want to get in, your chance to get one week 1 BD in prime week with you have enough points to do that should be in 1/4 to 1/3 range.

Jya-Ning


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## acesneights (Feb 20, 2007)

What's more, if I ask folks around here in SE Michigan your question:

then I'm afraid the two answers I hear most often are the scourges of the timeshare universe: Orlando and Williamsburg.

No fooling![/QUOTE]

In NC, SC, GA it's Myrtle Beach.

I bet you can get a week at the Dells a helluva lot easier than MB in the summer.

Stan


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 21, 2007)

acesneights said:


> What's more, if I ask folks around here in SE Michigan your question:
> 
> then I'm afraid the two answers I hear most often are the scourges of the timeshare universe: Orlando and Williamsburg.
> 
> ...



I'd go as far as to say that even as far north as Virginia, you have a lot of people who say Myrtle Beach.  When I lived there, we always tried to go at least once a year because we could drive there comfortably in a day, and we were far enough south that we avoided the yucky water and jelly fish of VA Beach.

Yvonne

p.s.  Maybe this dead horse has been beat to death and can be let go.


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*all I am saying...*

is Hey,living in the midwest,and trying to book just about ANY timeshare in the summer  up here,is almost impossible!!There is not an abundance of ts resorts.Also, people who own those weeks do not trade out.Sooo...We (not wanting to fly the family) found a great (drivable) resort with a few advantages over a similar deal bought on E-bay.Whether anyone views the waterpark at Glacier Canyon as passe...This waterpark is not your garden variety 10,000 sq.ft. hotel park.It is MAMMOTH,HUGE,quite possibly the largest single connected water park system in the world.With all of the surrounding waterparks and special dells attractions,and natural beauty,the NEW dells is unlike any other vacation place.We have been to Gatlinberg.Branson,Ozarks,Six flags,Pigeon forge,ext.nothing really compares.Soon this area will be touted as the Orlando of the midwest.  
And Jyna...I know we should have the booking competition beat...That is why we paid the extra and purchased from the developer,to get the 3-month advantage.Otherwise,getting into these limited, sweet,units at this resort,during the summer is just a hope.
sally


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## acesneights (Feb 21, 2007)

If you bought retail for the ARP privilege only, you got taken, any WD deeded resale purchase from eBay or whatever, has EXACTLY the same rights as you do to reserve at 13 months.

Even if one had to pay 5 cents a point to get WD resale at the current time, they would have exactly the same chance to call at 8am on the 13 month day and beat you out for your July 22nd week for example by calling at 8 am on the previous year June 22nd.

The only privilege you have that a resale buyer doesn't is the possibility of adding 146K+ and getting VIP, but if you only want one summer week a year at WD, then VIP matters not one whit.

Clearly, the $2800 you save on admission fees for your week made it worthwhile for you to pay the then current developer price. But that is such a special case that no more than one in a thousand retail buyers would duplicate that reasoning.

Is there any spectacular reason to stay at GC over Tamarack? Are there resale points available, do they get free admission to the water park also?

Won't WYN be dumping the unsold inventory into RCI to get traffic to sell more points? Once the resort sells out, you will be competing with every other owner to get those summer weeks, and once the resort sells out and 2/3 or 3/4 of the owners find they can't get those summer weeks, because they can't figure out that they have to call at 8am on the 13 month day, won't they be dumping those "useless" UDI WD points on eBay for the current resale of 1 or 2 cents a point and when those points wind up in the hands of savvy owners who figure they can rent out those precious summer weeks for way more than the MF, you will be engaged in a speed dialing contest with people who make a business of renting out FF resorts. Good luck getting your precious summer weeks when that happens. If it really is that popular you will be in the same boat as MB owners in the summer.

Stan


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 21, 2007)

sally said:


> Soon this area will be touted as the Orlando of the midwest.



Lord I hope not.  As someone who enjoys Wisconsin and all its beauty, it would be a shame for it to become another "Orlando" or more likely, another Branson.

I don't think that Wisconsin enjoys the feeling that they are the "playground" of the "FIBS"  (their term, not mine) . . . and I don't think they want to be overdeveloped to the point of being another timeshare alley with tourists overrunning the communities that make Wisconsin so unique and peaceful.

Yvonne


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## timeos2 (Feb 21, 2007)

*The story is always the same*

Every Wyndham (FF) resort tries to sell itself as being "impossible" to obtain unless you buy there. (You wouldn't believe some of the resorts we've heard that at). The reality is very few are even hard to get with Points and none impossible in our 10 years of FF points use. With just a minimum of planning we've been able to get every FF resort we've ever requested in the time frame and unit size we wanted.  As stated Points are Points. About the only area we've ever heard of that is nearly impossible in the Wyndham system is specific  Myrtle Beach in July/August. But we know an owner there and its STILL an issue. Not worth paying extra for only to get closed out anyway. In many cases by owers who figured out to buy resale at 30% or less of retail prices. 

There has never been a case made that fits my definition of reasonable to pay thousands or worse tens of thousands for the exact same ownership rights in the Wyndham Points system.  VIP, home resort advantage, etc don't make the case. Not by a long shot.


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*Yvonne...*

It is already well on its way..Lots of big $$$ are in the dells right now,and more are coming.(good for the economy.. I think).
John..you will never see my side of it ,because you live where you do,and have not expierienced midwest/frustration.(Too few resorts with owners that never give up thier weeks.)
Sally


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*Stan..*

How much time you got left??
How much time feeling good..left??
Kids??There going,going,gone.
I myself Do not have 6 years of life to waste,hanging out on Ebay,waiting for that glacier canyon resale to pop up.There are a small # of units there anyway.The paint is still drying on the first set of these upscale units.(marble floors ,counters, hdtv,top line everything...Now if you like vacationing in a standard run down 2 bed apartment from the `70's(alla- Tammarack)or going to the pool in the clubhouse/pole barn,by all means do not bother with Glacier Canyon.A sale on Ebay will be rare for quite a while.If you find one ,let me know,or snap it up before I do!! Oh, and sorry no free waterpark admission at Tammarack.I have stayed there twice.(YOU get to use the great pool in the polebarn!
sally


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## bnoble (Feb 21, 2007)

> The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


_Hamlet_ (III, ii, 239)


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*me thinks...*

Some know the price of EVERYTHING,yet the value of nothing. 


also...The dells draw from Chicago,Milwaukee,Minneapolis,and Madison...HELLO!! population wise ,quite a large group of waterparkers.
sally


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## bnoble (Feb 21, 2007)

Well, cynicism is my reaction to your "arguments", that's for sure.

(And, the proper attribution is _Lady Windermere's Fan_ (1892) act 3)


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## jesuis1837 (Feb 21, 2007)

Amen to all this...  Now...can we move on? :ignore:


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*Many....*

here are made to feel foolish,mainly from self appointed (RESALE GURU"S).My (point)is there ARE`reasons why one would pay retail.All deals are unique,considering the people involved. 
sally


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## acesneights (Feb 21, 2007)

Sally,

We are not trying to run down your decision to purchase retail at the very beginning of the construction of a new resort with apparently unique features ($3000 a week savings on waterpark admissions) (Disney doesn't give free theme park admissions with DVC stays)

(ARE THE FREE WATERPARK ADMISSIONS IN THE DEED???)

(Why would the waterpark owners give away $603,000 a week in free waterpark admissions (201 Units @ $3000 a week?) This sounds too good to be true. That's $10 million in a 16 weeks long season.

How long will the free admissions last?

Why would anyone buy retail anywhere else, a week should rent out for $4000+ given the popularity of GC and the $3000 water park perk?

There's some thing rotten in the state of Wisconsin.

Stan


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## sally (Feb 21, 2007)

*Stan....*

As in all the unit types that comprise the wilderness resort,of witch there are at least 5 seperate divisions,waterpark admittance is included in room rate.Its pretty much like that with all the parks up there.
sally 
hence the special perks!


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 21, 2007)

Sally:

If you want to get in this year summer, make sure you start checking the availability.  Last I heard they are suppose to open at April, but does not know if they are open for reservation or not.  If they have not, then when it open, it will be less than 10 month period.

Good luck.

Jya-Ning


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## acesneights (Feb 21, 2007)

Sorry, I don't believe that the daily individual rate for these waterparks is over $100/day/person.

One BR sleeps 4 is worth over $400 a day in admissions. That's about twice what a 7 day park hopper at Disney costs. You could fly to Orlando and go to Disney for 7 days for the supposed cost of these waterparks.

And you could easily get an exchange into Orlando in the summer as well.

Stan


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 21, 2007)

Even for MB, for recent 2 summers (2006, 2007) at 10 month, there is inventories for OB.  The only impossible place is SW, even in ARP period, it probably has sucees rate 1/7.  Will see if next year the situation changed.  However, unless you want to be there year in year out, if you just want to be there once or twice, it is fair enough.  If really want to be there every year, maybe a fix week will be the only guarantee.  

Also, not all summer week are equal.  The one with holiday probably be the only one the rental will try to get.  And the thing about ARP is they have to use the point in that resort given on that year, so once they used, they will not get any more units.  And they have to get it one unit at a time.  So at the exact time, everyone is in the fair chance, they could loss also.

If 1BD can only fetch $1000, after deduct the ad, and some possible unrent cost, it is close to $6 per 1k, doubt any rental really want to do that.  And if what Sally say is true that there will be a lot of TS, doubt if you will get more than that.

Jya-Ning


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 21, 2007)

sally said:


> As in all the unit types that comprise the wilderness resort, of witch there are at least 5 seperate divisions,waterpark admittance is included in room rate.  Its pretty much like that with all the parks up there.
> sally
> 
> hence the special perks!



Not so.  I've stayed at the Great Wolf Lodge and the water park was a separate admission fee on top of a rather steep room rate.  I have also stayed at Kalahari and water park admission wasn't included there either.

I think many of those places price depending on your lodging purpose.  For me, as a business traveler w/o kids, there was no need for the water park admission and thankfully I didn't get gouged to pay for someone else's fun.


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## acesneights (Feb 21, 2007)

Isn't GC a fair ride from the rest of the Wilderness?

Apparently, GC doesn't have access to all of the other water areas either..

And apparently, Wilderness is now open to the public resulting in severe crowding, and costs less than $100/day.

And closes starting at 7pm with a 4pm check-in.

Or are the reviews that state this incorrect?

Stan


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## sally (Feb 22, 2007)

*Stan...*

Glacier Canyon is now recieving furniture...I don't know where you get $100 per day per person?YOU came up with that.I said waterpark admission could save a family(group of 8),as much as $400.per day.(based on the $40-$50.per day ,per person, public charge.Depending on high season...witch the public is not allowed in if resort occupancy is close to full.)Iknow this ,because we have tried in the summer at both the Khalahari and the Wilderness.I do not know what planet some are on but...When you book a room,suite,  condo,or cabin at the Wilderness,Full waterpark passes ,full access,to all water areas is included! (CALL THE RESORT PLEASE).Glacier Canyon is within a few yards of the main resort...It is connected by a tempory walkway,and will be fully connected soon.Also...we get FREE year round admittance to all water areas (EVEN WHEN WE ARE NOT STAYING AT THE RESORT!!!)This includes all family-extended family up to 10 people!This is great as we are up there in our summer place most of the summer any how...PERKS....REASONS TO BUY RETAIL!!
sally


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## sally (Feb 22, 2007)

*Jya....*

We have reservations for the middle of April 2007.


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## sally (Feb 22, 2007)

*yvonne...*

A small hotel room at any of the parks up there averages about $200.to $350. and includes 4 waterpark passes.That is the standard deal.More for holidays.I guess you could get a room w/out passes but there would not be much of a discount.


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 22, 2007)

sally said:


> A small hotel room at any of the parks up there averages about $200.to $350. and includes 4 waterpark passes.That is the standard deal.More for holidays.I guess you could get a room w/out passes but there would not be much of a discount.




I'm really tired of arguing with you and defending my personal experiences so this will be the last time I write in this thread . . .

I have pulled out my receipts and both times I stayed at these water park resorts (Great Wolf Lodge and Kalahari) the room rate (in fall/winter - their primetime) was right at $100 for a standard room (king size bed, no suite - which is steep for "just a room" in that area).  So according to your numbers, those four water passes cost somewhere between $100 and $250.  Maybe that is a deal, I don't know . . . and as I said, I don't have kids so it doesn't really matter.

What does matter is that you bought retail and you feel the perks are worth it.  That is good for you and those who want and are willing to pay for them.  I have never been critical of you on that issue.  In fact, my general position on resale vs retail is that in general, resale is the best way to go but that each individual/family needs to do what makes the most sense for their personal situation.  Sometimes buying retail does make sense.

I do take exception when folks blow out of proportion the "value" because they are using bogus numbers, assumptions and other things that may lead the uninformed to thinking they too should jump on the retail purchase band wagon at XYZ Resort.  Some of the statements and numbers you have used to defend, frankly come across like the kind of hard sell we'd see at the sales presentation for some resort in that area.  I especially found your comment about Wisconsin Dells becoming the "next Orlando" to be absurd and laughable.  That sounds like something right from some slick sales & marketing department.

Trust me, I know how much Wisconsin Gov. Doyle wants to increase the coffers of the state on the backs of tourists and his citizens.  The taxes in that state are some of the highest in the nation and the primary reason why we will probably never live there again.  With that being said, I do not believe the residents of that area of the state wants to see their area become the tourist mecca of the Midwest, much less the USA.

Enjoy your timeshare ownership experience . . . I'm glad it is of great value to you and your family . . . but please spare us with the continued hard sell of why the rest of us are foolish for not agreeing with you.

Best wishes,
Yvonne

p.s.  Here's a timely article on the water parks of Wisconsin from Milwaukee's paper The Milwaukee Journal . . . http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=566626


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## acesneights (Feb 22, 2007)

Perks are available to all owners, not a reason to buy from developer.

You gave the $400/day. But the 1BR you bought only sleeps 4 so to save $400/ day for 8 you 'd have to buy two 1 Br units at current developer prices of over $20,000 per unit. 

So now it's only $200 a day, you're saving. 

Also, apparently ALL the resorts have waterpark admission included. Aren't some available at resale or as exchanges?

I understand you will defend your purchase to the death, but that's not a reason anyone else should buy from the developer.

In any case, every resale buyer with FSP has the right to use the RPL to get in at least every other year with their penny a point resale purchase and get the same savings you got with your retail.

Stan


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## timeos2 (Feb 22, 2007)

*More Problems*

When I am able to get into the Wyndham Owners website (not very often - the fired web design wizards from AOL that RCI/Wyndham apparently employs aren't able to keep it up and running more than a few minutes per day) I see that the Wilderness Resort is an Associate resort. That adds even more reason to be very careful about buying there as FF has been known, like Marriott, to walk away from those resorts they don't actually own.  (Marriott is worse - they abandon resorts they BUILT!) Plus I did a search for availability and the one time I actually got a return (between the many "too busy please call" messages) there were at least six 7 day use periods available for 7/8/07. I couldn't get many details as I'm not going to spend hours waiting out the error messages. That compares to ZERO returns on that date for Myrtle Beach Seawatch and Alexandria - the two resorts that really do sell out in the ultra prime demand times. And we've obtained Alexandria on three different occasions without a problem (not this late in the use year however). It looks like  the Dells are in the same class as the majority of Fairshare resorts. Plan and you can get it with your points.  

The waterpark pass situation is also murky. At the most they would supply a pass for the rated occupancy of the unit - certainly not more. And you cannot assume that the passes would be included with a trade or for how long they might be part of any deal unless, as mentioned above, it is written into the sales documents. Since Wyndham doesn't own or control the water park it is very doubtful they can/would commit to any type of permanent inclusion of passes. We went through this type of thing with the Disney Vacation Club years ago and they quickly did away with the passes and never allowed them to transfer to guests even when they were offered. Buying based on that feature seems like it could be a big mistake. 

I am not saying that buying retail is a mistake IF you feel the unique perks are worth the huge difference in cost. I just have never found a case where that is actually true. Again this one doesn't seem to alter that finding. I can safely say that buying Wyndham Fairshare Points at retail is not a smart financial move 99% of the time. Maybe Sally falls into the 1% when it makes sense and if so I'm happy she got a good deal.  For the rest of those reading all this think very carefully before plopping down thousands of extra dollars for retail points.


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 22, 2007)

GC is FSP resort.  Somehow they really have problem in their system.  It does not add to the system for a while although it was supposed to open on this Spring.  And with the on-line system work the way it is during the whole Jan.  That maybe attribute to the available of that resort at July week (experience people will not wait until it get added to the system, and most owner have no idea it is in the system).  It is too early to tell.  If they only have one building next year will be a better indication.  If they have serveral, during these building years, with careful planning, you should be able to get it.

Jya-Ning


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## sally (Feb 22, 2007)

*o.k....sorry...*

I have just tried to be informative,sharing our story obviously angers some.I wish not to do this.I thought we were having a discussion??I will not be picked apart and accused of being dishonest.We have all our perks in writing.We come here to learn from each other,I would never think about falsifing anything.I am not trying to SELL anyone.(I thought I was the one that was being called foolish?)I am sorry for being brash...I can not help it.sorry again.
Stan...my whole point mainly is that the limited # of units,will make this hard to book for weekends and summer weeks.The 3 month home resort booking preference was the MAIN reason we purchased.The waterpark stuff is just extra.
sally


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## sally (Feb 22, 2007)

*one last thing...*

Yvonne...When I mentioned Orlando..I SHOULD have said Branson with attractions rather then (singing shows),sorry.
Yet, the more I think about it...I would never have guessed the dells would have increased ,in the way it has in 5 short years.


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## acesneights (Feb 22, 2007)

Since the Wilderness is an Associate resort, any VIP could use their Associate 13 month ARPs to get in there at 13 months.

Now admittedly, resale will no longer get you VIP, so there are only about 300,000 owners who can do this if they were so inclined.

It looks like the rental value of these resorts is predicated on the waterpark passes.

Looks like there are dozens of waterparks in this area, so buying retail GC is not your only option.

Stan


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## acesneights (Feb 22, 2007)

sally said:


> I have just tried to be informative,sharing our story obviously angers some.I wish not to do this.I thought we were having a discussion??I will not be picked apart and accused of being dishonest.We have all our perks in writing.We come here to learn from each other,I would never think about falsifing anything.I am not trying to SELL anyone.(I thought I was the one that was being called foolish?)I am sorry for being brash...I can not help it.sorry again.
> Stan...my whole point mainly is that the limited # of units,will make this hard to book for weekends and summer weeks.The 3 month home resort booking preference was the MAIN reason we purchased.The waterpark stuff is just extra.
> sally



BUT the 3 month home resort preference is available to ALL owners, not just developer owners. That's a reason to purchase at GC, not a reason to purchase FROM THE DEVELOPER at GC.

Stan


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## sally (Feb 23, 2007)

*Stan...*

Frankly, I just don't see any other way to purchase this resort.Just not a lot of Glacier Canyon resales on Ebay...zero,as its a new resort.Now, we just have to figure out,how long it will take for the resales to appear.I really can't afford to wait 3-6 years.Seeing how the massive waterpark is part of this resort...(It is sort of like having a timeshare at blizzard beach in Orlando.)I bet any that pop up will be scarfed pronto!You know..when the fairfied owners get familar with Glacier Canyon,It will be VERY hard to get those weeks.Just to early now, as its bearly discovered,by most in the group.Not even thinking of all the other new groups joining the fray.(worldmark,trendwest ,ect.) What will the impact on vacancy be when this resort starts appearing in all those books?Do you see where I am coming from?
sally


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## acesneights (Feb 23, 2007)

I see where you are coming from, but once the resort is actually completed and there is huge developer inventory, it will available as RCI exchange, EH, EV etc as FF/WYN generates traffic to sell the 2 billion or more points they will have in inventory.

Once the resort sells out and the competition for prime summer weeks starts, there will be 100's of disappointed owners who won't know  to call in at 8am on the 13 month day who will be giving up on using their GC UDI points and they will be dumping those on the resale market.

SO, it should be an easy exchange, EH, EV whatever in the near future and a much cheaper resale in the sold out future.

AS moire and more people crowd into the existing waterpark due to extra 1000;s of people staying at the various Wilderness Resorts including GC, plus the opening of the resort to the public, you will see more and more of the Disney type gridlock with long waits for each ride. Ultimately a victim of its own success demand for high priced timeshares at WD drops and resales appear.

Obviously you value the preconstruction discount you got and the opportunity to get in on the GC experience before it sells out and you felt it was worth paying retail, but that does not vitiate the fact that resale is the best way to go over the long and medium term.  

Stan


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## sally (Feb 23, 2007)

*Stan...*

Thats  a lot of ...when this happens..when that happens.I think I will  get ready to speed dial when the time comes....but for now,I think the advantage is well worth the bucks..at least for us.
thanks for discussing these things with me!
It has been informative.
sally


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## sycamore (Feb 26, 2007)

Haven't been able to verify that Glacier Canyon is the resort that you saw online with availability but if you did that's great.  It must have just been added to the reservation part of the website.  I have been watching for it to appear for months.  That would explain the availability.  No one has been able to reserve this online.  The only was previously to reserve the unit was to call a vacation counselor.

For what it's worth.  I have called Glacier Canyon and talked to the Fairfield people there.  The water parks are included.  

Sally,  you sound like you are a veteran to timeshare and you definitely know what you want and can afford to get it.  For you it sounds like purchasing from the developer was the right thing.  You definitely have strong feelings about it and you know you want to go now, and many times repeatedly in future years.  You have made it clear that having this as a home resort is very important to you for ARP reasons.  Obviously it is impossible to buy Wyndham resale Glacier Canyon at this date so your purchase sounds right for you.  I think others were trying to mention that you perhaps could have bought into the Wilderness Resort which is an associate resort resale and gotten the same privileges. (waterparks)  I don't know much about that resort so I can't comment.  Perhaps it is the Wyndham units as much as the location that prompted you to see the value.  Everyone has different needs.  I for one am a Wyndham points owner but not deeded at Glacier Canyon.  We are going during Christmas.  No problem getting the reservation.  We vacation very differently from you.  ARP is not that important to us.  We like the variety.  We have stayed at Tamarack in the Wyndham section which backs up to the  pond and loved it there.  Can't beat having a child catch a fish every 2 - 3 minutes.  What a thrill.  We have also stayed in older resorts and enjoyed them just as much. One day it was pouring and the indoor pool worked just fine for us.  We also liked the indoor tennis courts.  Now that's something that we don't see everyday.  Variety allows us to have something to talk about when recounting our trips.  Sure, the new resorts are beautiful but then again, a older unit is still a thousand times better than any hotel we would ever stay in.  My purchases were also all from the developer but I have to admit that if I had the knowledge I have now about my purchases I would have bought resale in a heartbeat.  There hasn't been one place I haven't been able to get into when I wanted in the last 8 years.  We travel an average of 3 or 4 vacations a year.  Only one time did we have to be flexible on our checkin date and that was when reserving in Myrtle Beach.  

The Dells are popular since they are so close to others in the midwest.  We live in St. Louis, MO and the Dells is an easy short drive as opposed to many of the Wyndham timeshares.  The waterparks do have their appeal.  We understand in the winter there is an ice skating rink and a snow tube area also available to the guest free of charge.  I think this resort will be popular because it is so different than the other Wyndham resorts.  Only time will tell how popular it really will be.  There are more and more waterpark type places popping up but they are not timeshares which we own or places we would visit because they are not available to me via RCI or directly through Wyndham.  

  Earlier I read a thread where a person who just got out of bankruptcy had bought into a timeshare and was now rescinding.  So glad they found TUG!  This kind of irresponsible selling creates all kinds of problems.  All at the expense of a sales commission.  For newbies, it is easy to get caught up at the moment.  

For you, I congratulate you on your purchase.  It sounds perfect for you and your lifestyle.  It sounds like you have some very solid reasons for seeing the value of your retail purchase.  You are not new to timeshares so your decision to buy retail was not swayed by the salesmen taking advantage of you like they do so many others.  You sound like you have insured years and years of great memories for you and your extended family in many many ways.  Enjoy.


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## mshatty (Feb 26, 2007)

As of yesterday, 2/25/07, Glacier Canyon is not available for booking online with FF, only through a VC.


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## sally (Feb 26, 2007)

*sycamore.....*

You are very precise,may of your statements are right on.Although the part about midwest availability in the summer is wrong...we have been on waiting list for months.All in all, you sumed it up nicely!If airfare was cheap..we all, would not have any problems...
sally


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## vincenton (Feb 26, 2007)

I just check the Fairfield Online Directory. This is a Fairshare Plus Resort, 'not' an Associate Resort. 

Vincent.


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## dvcbwv (Feb 27, 2007)

sally said:


> and the years tick by...as Stan waits for a resale to open up in the Dells..Meanwhile a nasty surge in the inflation index makes that timeshare cost double what he wished he bought it for.His kids are now too old to fully enjoy the attractions the dells offer...and the cruel hands of time have lept forward.
> Life is short,waiting for some things,in the big picture, just do not make all that much sense.
> IMHO
> sally
> ...



Sally,

Not to burst your bubble, but "hot" resorts DO come on the resale market.  You just have to have patience.  For example,  We just bought Bonnet Creek at 2.5 cents a point.  Personally, with our family, we would never want to go to Wisconsin, but to each their own.  Even the price we paid for BC is over the dirt-cheap price it may come down to someday (and the dirt-cheap price you can get many FF point packages for), but we didn't want to wait any longer and we wanted our ARP to be at BC.

10 cents a point is not FULL retail price, which was perhaps Stan's point?  I'm not sure.  I just know that one person's dream resort might be another person's nightmare, lol.


Tracy


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2007)

*You pay to be first*



dvcbwv said:


> Sally,
> 
> Not to burst your bubble, but "hot" resorts DO come on the resale market.  You just have to have patience.  For example,  We just bought Bonnet Creek at 2.5 cents a point.  Personally, with our family, we would never want to go to Wisconsin, but to each their own.  Even the price we paid for BC is over the dirt-cheap price it may come down to someday (and the dirt-cheap price you can get many FF point packages for), but we didn't want to wait any longer and we wanted our ARP to be at BC.
> 
> ...



Someone has to be the first in at any new resort. As unbelievable as it may sound within 12 months there are usually resales on the market no matter what resort you are talking about.  This may be even more true at a points based resort as all Wyndham Fairshare are. There really is no difference in the use value of a point from the lowest annual fee resort to the highest - but the cost to the owner can be quite different. So newer resorts cost far more in up front (lost) cost to buy the points but may, for awhile, have lower annual fees as everything is new and the developer pushes to keep annual costs low as they are selling. The more mature resorts still have an artificially inflated retail price per point - well over $.10 and still basically a lost cost - but the option of resale points at $.03 or less. The annual fees will more closely reflect the true cost of operating the resort and may or may not be higher than the newer resorts. But those costs are there as long as you wnat to be in the Fairshare system. So reducing the up front expense and trying to minimize the ongoing fees while still having your home base at a resort you like is one way to get value out of the system. 

Being first on the block to have the rights to reserve, and pay all future fees, at any new resort is a costly approach. No Wyndham resort has a significantly higher resale price than any other as, again, points are points and resale cost is not the biggest expense an owner faces. BC isn't going to change that. In a year or two there will be resales available, the resort will be in the pool of available resorts just like all the others and the "advantage" of early ownership will be a lost cost.  But I do understand that for some it is important to have use from the start and they are willing to pay for that. If it's a value to your family certainly theres nothing wrong with it. Just don't kid yourself that you are buying the first Wyndham that will hold it's resale value close to retail as that isn't at all likely to occur. View it as money spent to get the new car you want and enjoy.


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## sally (Feb 27, 2007)

*John....*

the kidding yourself part..... comes in when you THINK that you can stay at a resort, during the summer,in the upper midwest,(or even lake of the ozarks)when the kids are out of school.(or spring break)or other.
It IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!Now down south ,out west,there are a multitude of resorts,and many more people trade in and out.Up north ,no way!It is essential to have an edge,(3 month booking Jump),in getting your week.The posters that have childeren, in the midwest,know of what I am saying.
thats all..
sally


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## wackymother (Feb 27, 2007)

I used my Williamsburg timeshare to exchange into a nice 2br townhouse at Christmas Mountain Village in the Dells last July.


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Still not a strong case*



sally said:


> the kidding yourself part..... comes in when you THINK that you can stay at a resort, during the summer,in the upper midwest,(or even lake of the ozarks)when the kids are out of school.(or spring break)or other.
> It IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!Now down south ,out west,there are a multitude of resorts,and many more people trade in and out.Up north ,no way!It is essential to have an edge,(3 month booking Jump),in getting your week.The posters that have childeren, in the midwest,know of what I am saying.
> thats all..
> sally



Sally - I believe you that it's a tough reservation to get in the summer. So is every other location in timesharing as those 6-8 summer weeks are the highest demand of the whole year. Virtually everyone has school breaks, the weather is as good (as in warm as it's going to get) and people plan travel for that period every year. BC is no harder than any other area during that time. Heck, even an area that has tons of resorts like Orlando is a tough summer trade if you want only resort X in unit size Y.  Now I have zero desire to visit the midwest for a week but you most likely feel the same about the Adirondacks in NY/MA. Those are impossible to get as well during that time frame as the locals want them just as the locals desire the area you're in. Yet after a few years Bentley Brook, another classy Wyndham resort, is available if you plan ahead at 8-10 months out.  There is nothing totally unique about demand at BC or anywhere else.  

But we are also talking about two different things. If you want to buy at the resort because you get the priority thats a very legitimate reason. The best way to assure access to own there with enough points to get the time/unit you want at the 13 month mark. But it still isn't a guarantee.  You have to be willing to act quickly if thats the only time you will accept. That doesn't close out the other members of the Fairshare system from also reserving even though they have to wait until the 10 month mark. Why? Because the Developer will hold much of the inventory for a few years while they sell. That unsold inventory usually gets placed into the general pool - not the owners pool - as they use it to bring in potential buyers by exposing them to the resort. The owners have no rights to the unsold time at the resort unless Wyndham chooses to make it available to them. They usually do not. But all of that is reservation/use issues. It won't matter in two or three years if you paid retail or waited a year or two and bought resale  - the owners will have the exact same priority from either purchase type. 

The second part is the potential resale value. You haven't stated directly that you think it will be high but your posts hint at that. I can state with 99% certainty that the resale value of points based at GC will be within $.01 of any other Wyndham resale.  The home base just doesn't impact resale value of Fairshare points. If it did the value of Alexandria, Grande Vista  or Myrtle Beach Seawatch among others would be much higher than at other resorts. Guess what, they aren't.  Thats because points are points and they all reserve the same.  Its the best feature of a well run points system and Fairshare is one of the best.  So buying retail to get a year or two extra priority before much time is available resale, if the value is there for you, is certainly reasonable. After that you still will enjoy the priority of ownership you feel you need and the money will be forgotten. You won't have obtained any savings on future fees or have a higher resale value for that extra upfront cost. I can't make a case for that myself but you obviously can so again, enjoy your time there as it sounds like you really like the area and the resort. Trying to tell the general Wyndham points buyer that this makes the case for retail purchase simply doesn't fly. At best its an isolated case where a buyer feels the early use rights outweigh the extra costs. That isn't going to happen often.


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## sally (Feb 27, 2007)

*sorry John....*

I don't agree..Seems in your calculations,you forgot about the fact that, entrance to what might be the best indoor /outdoor waterpark system,is included in your stay.Thats a whole lot of savings $$$ and time keeping your kids occupied,time that the parents can have to themselves! Hey, John put a price on THAT! 
All in all,the folks won't be hearing  'I'm bored",they won't be forking out extra bucks for OTHER activities.They will simply say 'Lets go to the waterpark ,thats what were here for."Ah bliss....  
Not a strong case over any other resort? oh, please ...I am laughing!What other resort includes this? ..
NONE.Thats like staying at a Disney resort, having your admission included in your timeshare,and then saying it will bring the same demand as say a regular 'no frills' place.WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SEE THIS??? 
sally


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 27, 2007)

sally said:


> WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SEE THIS???
> sally



Maybe you're the only one who values it???


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Frills don't raise the resale value.*



sally said:


> Not a strong case over any other resort? oh, please ...I am laughing!What other resort includes this? ..
> NONE.Thats like staying at a Disney resort, having your admission included in your timeshare,and then saying it will bring the same demand as say a regular 'no frills' place.WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SEE THIS???
> sally



Disney did once include passes with DVC purchase. But that ended long ago. And they limited it to the actual buyers - it did not transfer on resale OR to an exchange so there was no value to it on trade or resale. I think it was asked before but I don't see an answer. Are the water park pass(es) listed in the sales documents as a feature? How many per unit? For how long?   There certainly is a value to them but only if you want them and they are fully transferable. If your written documents don't say they are then they aren't. If it isn't written in the hard copies in detail then they are simply bonuses they can withdraw at any time. I'd read the sales agreement very carefully if I was basing any extra value on those passes.


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## sally (Feb 27, 2007)

*limited to....*

10 passes,family and extended family only (in the contract)
oh, and Evonne.... IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT I WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE, WHO VALUES THE WATERPARK!!


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Eventually the owners pay if included*



sally said:


> 10 passes,family and extended family only (in the contract)
> oh, and Evonne.... IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT I WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE, WHO VALUES THE WATERPARK!!



Which means you cannot give the passes to incoming exchange guests (just like Disney used to do). The value as a trade is no different than any other Wyndham resort. How many years? Wyndham does not own that waterpark - what if it closes? (There have been cases of that in other areas already).  Are the passes transferred on resale (Disney didn't allow that either)? If it doesn't spell it out they aren't as they are not part of any deeded real estate.  They are a nice bonus, 10 certainly have a value to you if you have a large extended family to use them. They sound like they were used as a "pre-construction" type offer to make a deal. I'd still have to weigh the value vs the cost difference in retail points. I don't think it can actually tip the scale even if we wanted all 10 passes (I think you said they are worth about $100 so $1000/year. To make up the difference in retail vs resale would take about 12 years assuming they lasted that long and all 10 would be used - only by family remember - all years)  Plus I'd be worried if they really are included in the ownership as once the full operational costs of the resort are turned over to the owners that cost has be paid for by them in the annual fees. Nothing at a timeshare gets paid for by "them" - the "them" is the total of owners. Thats the type of thing that owners with no kids or who are too old to enjoy the water park would balk (correctly) at funding every year.  I just can't find the value. I'd rather pay only for the time I actually use when I use it.  Far cheaper in the long run.


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 28, 2007)

sally said:


> 10 passes,family and extended family only (in the contract)
> oh, and Evonne.... IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT I WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE, WHO VALUES THE WATERPARK!!



Sally:

I believe everyone that lives in the day driving distance (less than 1 1/2 hr drive) may value this package.  If it is like most of other resort's day usage deal.   If it needs more drive time, it probably means it will not get used unless owner comes to that area, and probably the owner will not come to that area to use it unless they made reservation on their TS week there in the time water park is open.  So, if 1 unit sleeps 4, unless you can get RCI exchange, it means distance owner should only count 4 tickets and probably 5 days usage the most.  

But I pretty much can see the value it means to you.  You probably is within the day drive range, so if you drive there every weekends during summer, it could mean a great saving.  And assume developer cover the first 3 years, I will say $1000 a year is probably an underestimate even if you only have family of 4.

And thanks for the warning, it probably means the deal is not transfered on resell but the MF will have to cover it.

Jya-Ning


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 28, 2007)

Timeshare Von said:


> I'm really tired of arguing with you and defending my personal experiences so this will be the last time I write in this thread . . .



Note to self . . . stop reading this thread!!!!


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## sycamore (Feb 28, 2007)

Sally,  This is your first Fairfield purchase.  There is no doubt that you are passionate about your purchase.  Value is in the eye of the beholder.  Yes the waterpark passes are nice but remember......I am not deeded at GC and I receive free passes as well.  That's the value of owning Fairfield points in general.  I would say that Seawatch Towers is definitely an entertainment mecca for the kids.  7 pools, 2 being underneath the towers, 2 lazy rivers and beach front.  Our family never felt the need to leave that resort.  And Bonnet Creek has great pools, a wonderful lazy river, sand volleyball, putt putt, etc in addiiton to being close to all the Florida opportunities.  My kids actually requested to leave Universal Studios to enjoy the resort more!  And I don't think any resort rivals the activities department that Branson has. I could go on and on.   Each resort has it's own flavor and selling points.  That's what helps the salespeople do their jobs.  You mentioned that you bought because it was new, at a place you definitely loved and there were no resales available.  It was worth it at any cost to you so you bought it with no buyers remorse whatever.  Leave it at that.  The waterpark is great but we don't see the need to return year after year to the place.  We think the kids would love it for the first couple of vacations and then want to go on another type of vacation.  No need to defend your purchase to anyone.  It's what you want.  However,  I do think it would be good for you to join the Fairfield Yahoo Group.  Here's the link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fairfield_timeshare/

This is a group comprised of owners, and potential owners and there is a lot of knowlege on the site.  You will learn more truths from this site than you would ever hear from Owner Services or the Sales Representatives.  You will learn how to maximize your purchase to it's fullest and it may help you understand where all of the other posters in this thread are coming from.  The truth is that the other posters are very knowledgeable about the resale value.  (Comes from experience and life lessons).  Don't be offended.  Part of the learning process is investigating and learning more about what you have.  It may not be what you want to hear but it's pretty accurate.  I am from the midwest.  I trade into the Ozarks because it is close.  It took me two years before I finally figured out how to make timesharing work for me but now that I understand how to play the game I am never disappointed with vacationing from June - August.  Everyone has a different idea  and level of the energy they want to put forth to secure their timeshare vacation.  It takes work sometimes to get the trades you want but it's not impossible.  Your purchase guarantees you ARP priveledges at 13 months out at GC.  Other than this, your purchase is equivalent to my purchase where I can reserve it at 10 months out.  Gold and Platinum members can ARP into wilderness at 13 months and at GC at 11 months out.  The owners at Seawatch Towers at Myrtle Beach have ARP at 13 months out but it doesn't mean much unless they are on the phone at 8:00 in the morning 13 months out to make their reservations.  Some owners who have used their ARP privileges for years are claiming that they are no longer able to reserve the amount of units they want at 13 months out because there are so many owners competing at 8:00 for them that they are taken before others can get a chance to get their reservations completed. The tides have changed there a bit.  Does this mean they can't get a reservation all summer?  No...It just may mean that the 3 bedroom units or the 2 bedroom units are snatched up quicker or perhaps the ones with the views they prefer.  So for your sake, I pray that GC does not have this problem.  The sales people tend to "omit" this scenario in any of their sales speeches.  After all, it isn't good for the business!  

I think everyone has been trying to educate you.  They are not trying to put you down because you bought retail.  After all, that's what helps build beautiful resorts.  You come across very defensive about your decision.  There is no need for that.  Fairfield is a new purchase for you.  Now it's time to educate yourself in general about your purchase.  After all, if you love GC as much as I think you will, you may want to buy additional points someday.  At that point you may want to revaluate how you want to accomplish those additional points.  Only you know what is right for you.


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## acesneights (Feb 28, 2007)

10 passes for 1 day each? So if you take 4 people, even 2 kids can't go every day.

You certainly wouldn't get 10 weekly passes for a sleeps 4 1 BR unit.

Certainly better than no passes but maybe not really worth $20,000 or more.

All of your protestations still don't change the fact that ALL owners at GC, regardless of whether they paid 10 cents a point, 15 cents a point or 1 cent a point all get the 13 month ARP and the free passes.

You obviously thought that it was worth an extra $12,000 to get the guaranteed right to call at 13 months for a reservation immediately, before the resort even opens and before resale becomes available.

But apparently NO ONE ELSE agrees with you. Everyone else would be willing to wait a year to buy for 2.5 cents a point.

If YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES the value in spending $15,400 for a week at GC, it might be because you are wrong about the value.

It's a done deal so enjoy your summers at GC and hope that you don;t get too much competition for the 1BR from people who would rather ARP two weeks in a 1BR than 1 week in a larger unit.

Stan


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## sally (Feb 28, 2007)

*we get ....*

10 passes per day ..any day of the year,wether we are staying at the resort or not.
we have four timeshares.have been doing this for about 20 years.we only buy quality,thats all.
sally


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## dvcbwv (Feb 28, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Someone has to be the first in at any new resort. As unbelievable as it may sound within 12 months there are usually resales on the market no matter what resort you are talking about.  This may be even more true at a points based resort as all Wyndham Fairshare are. There really is no difference in the use value of a point from the lowest annual fee resort to the highest - but the cost to the owner can be quite different. So newer resorts cost far more in up front (lost) cost to buy the points but may, for awhile, have lower annual fees as everything is new and the developer pushes to keep annual costs low as they are selling. The more mature resorts still have an artificially inflated retail price per point - well over $.10 and still basically a lost cost - but the option of resale points at $.03 or less. The annual fees will more closely reflect the true cost of operating the resort and may or may not be higher than the newer resorts. But those costs are there as long as you wnat to be in the Fairshare system. So reducing the up front expense and trying to minimize the ongoing fees while still having your home base at a resort you like is one way to get value out of the system.
> 
> Being first on the block to have the rights to reserve, and pay all future fees, at any new resort is a costly approach. No Wyndham resort has a significantly higher resale price than any other as, again, points are points and resale cost is not the biggest expense an owner faces. BC isn't going to change that. In a year or two there will be resales available, the resort will be in the pool of available resorts just like all the others and the "advantage" of early ownership will be a lost cost.  But I do understand that for some it is important to have use from the start and they are willing to pay for that. If it's a value to your family certainly theres nothing wrong with it. Just don't kid yourself that you are buying the first Wyndham that will hold it's resale value close to retail as that isn't at all likely to occur. View it as money spent to get the new car you want and enjoy.




John,

Not sure why you chose to quote me in this reply (post #75) to Sally as my point was markedly the same as yours.
Probably just an "oops", lol, but I am flattered!  : )
I agree with your assessment.



sally said:


> 10 passes,family and extended family only (in the contract)
> oh, and Evonne.... IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT I WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE, WHO VALUES THE WATERPARK!!



And again, Sally, to me Waterpark = Nightmare, lol!

Tracy


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## mshatty (Feb 28, 2007)

Timeshare Von said:


> Note to self . . . stop reading this thread!!!!


:rofl:
:hysterical::rofl:


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## acesneights (Feb 28, 2007)

So for mere $15,400 purchase you can get 3650 passes a year worth $50 each.
forever.

$182,500 worth of passes each year for $600 a year in MF. 

With over 200 units, and 52 weeks thats 38 million passes a year worth 1.9 billion dollars.

That's also 104,000 passes a day just from GC (200 units * 10 passes per unit * 52 weeks per year. What's the total capacity of the waterpark?

Am I the only one who finds this unbelievable?

Stan


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## timeos2 (Feb 28, 2007)

acesneights said:


> So for mere $15,400 purchase you can get 3650 passes a year worth $50 each.
> forever.
> 
> $182,500 worth of passes each year for $600 a year in MF.
> ...



No. All credibility was lost I'm afraid. It's simply not possible.


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## Jya-Ning (Mar 1, 2007)

acesneights said:


> So for mere $15,400 purchase you can get 3650 passes a year worth $50 each.
> forever.
> 
> $182,500 worth of passes each year for $600 a year in MF.
> ...



Day use and season use is very different.

Six flags is closed amusement park to me, their season ticket is 69 before tax, but around 40 before tax per day

Williamsburg's Bush Garden is 159.95 per year one person, and 116.21 per person one year if you buy 4 together, and 284.95 for 2 year per person that good for all their parks.  And they have TS parkage where you get a week pass.  VA resident is 54.95 per year

Disney Orlando gives FL resident like $395 per year hopper ticket pass.

Know nothing about that water park.  But if someone say it is 100 per person one season with 10 ticket purchased, and they live there, I will take their word for it.  I will not based on my purchase decision based on there word though, and will not use 10 person since the max I will willing to pay is 6 person including myself, but each peron is different. 

Jya-Ning


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## sally (Mar 1, 2007)

*John,Stan,Tracy...*

I have come here, simply to share the workings,and why,of my situation. For sharing,I have now, openly been called a fraud....I think I am done with you guys now. as stated (not possible--all credibility is gone).How dare you??
I`do not know why I am taking the time for this,but... .
.
contract number....... 
Individuals who puchase a vacation ownership interest at the Inn at Glacier Canyon ,A condominium, from Wyndham vacation resorts inc.,and thier immediate family members, who accompany the (voi) owners,are eligible to have year round daily access, as descibed here in  to the hotel recreational facilities (Hotel).,and the (lodge) facilities,located in Wisonsin dells............................................................................................................Only VOI owners who purchase on-site at Glacier Canyon sales office are eligible for this benefit.
The following Recreational Facilities
indoor/outdoor swimming pools
water games
water slides
locker rooms
public bathrooms


.....year round daily access

now... thanks for being so friendly! you guys are something else.

sally


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## dvcbwv (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow Sally.  Just wow.  I said nothing of the sort about you or to you and I quite frankly resent being called out by you.  I simply said that one person's percived value might be another person's "I couldn't care less" value.  That is the beauty of choice and the wonderful thing about America.

Now that you have publicly reprimanded me ("How dare you?") I suppose I should respond.

In the future, please actually READ what people write to you.  Your viewpoint is certainly not the only viewpoint in the world.  It would serve you well to learn this lesson.  I can only hope you might have learned something valuable here in between all of your fighting for your own way.  You will rarely, (if not NEVER) hear anyone here say that it is better to purchase retail.

Can I say again that I would NEVER in a million billion years buy a resort because of free water park passes.  For our family a water park is just NO FUN.  We prefer Disney.

Have a good one!


Tracy


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2007)

*Sally - Sorry*



sally said:


> I have come here, simply to share the workings,and why,of my situation. For sharing,I have now, openly been called a fraud....I think I am done with you guys now. as stated (not possible--all credibility is gone).How dare you??
> I`do not know why I am taking the time for this,but... .
> .
> contract number.......
> ...



Nice post Sally. That does sound like it means everyday. But it could also be interpreted as "year round" when checked in at the resort or some other hair brained interpretation. I've been down this road with Disney in the past so believe me they can read things far differently than you or I.  So place that document in a VERY safe place and hope they honor it forever. I do apologize for saying it isn't possible as I also would read that statement as you do. I hope we're right for your sake if the water park is critical item to you. As noted it will not add to the value for resale of the points as it specifically says the bonus is lost except for direct buyers. So if in fact that is something buyers want it will further DEPRESS resale value as it is excluded at resale. For me another reason to avoid paying big dollars up front to get something that will be lost should  I ever sell.


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## acesneights (Mar 1, 2007)

So it's not passes that you get. You get access. What's the contractual definition of immediate family? Spouse? Domestic partners? Significant others? Dependent children? Parents? Grandparents? SIL? DIL?

Is it realistic to go to GC without staying over? Would one make a day trip out of it? If one had to get accommodations elsewhere at WD, wouldn't the waterpark access be included?

If one just wanted the park access, why not buy 77K and get the access and ARP 3 days at high season?

This is the kind of benefit that is common in the TS world. Buying at a nearby resort to get year round use of the facilities as an owner.

You win, if one lives close enough to WD to drive there any day you want to attend the waterpark and not stay over and only want to take immediate family, and would use this ability many times a year, then buying retail directly from the GC sales office makes perfect sense.

And buying resale at GC wouldn't make sense for you.

But as your immediate family ages and your kids want to bring friends, or you want to go there with family who don't meet the immediate family definition or perhaps you become widowed or divorced and want to go for free without getting remarried or your kids become too old to meet the immediate family definition, the free access becomes not quite as valuable.

And it sounds like this benefit is not transferable, so if you ever move farther away from WD, you will be selling regular old penny a point FSP points.

Stan


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## acesneights (Mar 1, 2007)

Another possible bone of contention is whether the daily access is to the entire complex that GC is part of, or only those facilities that are directly part of GC.

An Disney analogy might be if you could stay at Cinderella's castle you might have use only of the castle, you might not have access to the entire Magic Kingdom.

Stan


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## sally (Mar 2, 2007)

*I apologize....*

sorry Tracy. I did not mean for you to feel like I was reprimanding you,just John ,as he has since apologized,apology accepted John.Afterall Tracy,I do not view our debate as ME trying to (get my way),but as me sharing my reasoning for buying retail.Its sort of like, riding first class in an airplane.I Just view all the bells and whistles WORTH IT! for me at least.The only lesson, I believe I need, is one in sugercoating my views.I am a very frank person.I can see why you might find me abrasive,sorry.


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## sally (Mar 2, 2007)

*Stan...*

Yes, water park is critical ,for at least the next 15 years,then grand chideren,so who knows.As far as the facility??All water areas,of the Wilderness properties.Family and extended family include.....spouses,childeren,step childeren,grandchilderen,parents,step parents,grandparents,and step gandparents.

friends are not included.
friends can pay thier OWN way.
We have a large family and only live 1 hour 30 min. out....so Yes, this makes perfect sense,we will enjoy this as we LOVE indoor water parks, even when it is 30 degrees below zero.We were just in this park on such a day!  oh, and access = passes..
sally 



Stan... I am not concerned about resale,we buy these things to USE,when I have my $$$$ out of it, is dependant on how many great (first class units) we have stayed in.Add what these similar first class units would cost coming off the street and how many nights you have stayed and that is the true cost over RETAIL.In my book at least......See it is ALL about the UNIT!! A run down 2-bedroom apartment just will NOT do...we have exchanged into several of these types of units through rci,talk about your vacation wreckers! twice we had to check into a better quality hotel unit.Where is the savings$$$$ there???


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## acesneights (Mar 2, 2007)

That's fine for you. But what happens when a sizable fraction of the 104,000 eligible people from GC alone decide to show up on the same day?

When the resort is sold out more than 104,000 people will have this year round daily access for their extended families.

If it's free the only constraint on usage will be the amount of crowding that occurs on those hot summer weekends.

If the resort has a capacity of 5,000 people and 5% of those eligible show up and there are another 5000 people staying at the other hotels and resorts in the Wilderness complex, you could be standing in line for hours.

And that's a conservative estimate. The only reason to buy retail at GC would be to get the water park use. 

There's no such thing as a free lunch, you better eat your fill before GC sells out more than 20% or so.

Do they sell season passes for this water park complex? If so, that is the true value of the perk.

If one enjoys this park, you could buy 77K for $7700 and maybe $300 in MF and bring ten family members every day you could want.

This is a bonanza for WD water park fans who live close enough for a day trip. 

It's not an investment, it's not really even a timeshare purchase, it's a waterpark pass bulk purchase which comes with a bonus timeshare reservation.

You could rent out the week and use the waterpark.

Stan


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## Dave M (Mar 2, 2007)

I'll take a different approach. 

I'm as principled as anyone in the TUG "buy resale" mantra. However, there are several valid reasons for buying from a developer.  One valid reason might well be, "because I can, because I want to, because I want it now and because I get a benefit that I can't be sure I'll get if I don't buy from the developer." 

Also, numerous TUGgers spend more than necessary for a timeshare to get an advantage in making reservations. Many Marriott owners, for example, buy an extra unwanted Marriott timeshare solely to have access to making reservations 13 months in advance instead of 12 months. Whether what Sally spent for the privilege was worthwhile can only truly be valued by her. 

In a sense, buying a timeshare from a developer is not much different than buying a BMW or Lexus instead of a Ford or Chevrolet. Those who do so perceive that they will get personal value not available from buying a Ford or Chevy. I don't see the value in buying a BMW. But I don't tell those who bought one and tout the benefits that they made a mistake. 

I believe Sally has made a good case for her purchase. Merely because we might not have made the same choice doesn't make her decision "wrong" for her.

Sally, I wish you much enjoyment with your purchase!


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2007)

*Location can be trumped by quality*



sally said:


> Stan... I am not concerned about resale,we buy these things to USE,when I have my $$$$ out of it, is dependant on how many great (first class units) we have stayed in.Add what these similar first class units would cost coming off the street and how many nights you have stayed and that is the true cost over RETAIL.In my book at least......See it is ALL about the UNIT!! A run down 2-bedroom apartment just will NOT do...we have exchanged into several of these types of units through rci,talk about your vacation wreckers! twice we had to check into a better quality hotel unit.Where is the savings$$$$ there???



Sally - Now you sound like a family after ours. We like to find the top quality, newest resorts and best areas. We aren't as happy simply to get into an area but want one of the best resorts/units. We enjoy a week at a beach as much as the next family but have found we'd rather have a nicer, bigger unit at a resort with more features than the location on the beach. So we have to walk a ways or even drive 10 minutes to the beach - its worth it for the better accommodations.  Wyndham points have allowed us to cherry pick resorts, unit sizes and dates. It's one of the reasons we like them so much.  Do enjoy your ownership and the features - it sounds great.


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## lprstn (Mar 5, 2008)

*Sally you are not the only one that purchased from the developer...*

Sally, I purchased 2 (Wyndam) resale contracts first, then purchased (Wyndam) through the developer   for "VIP Gold" priveledges and to own at Bonnet Creek.  However, I do enjoy my "VIP" benefits that others say are worthless, and I do book @ BC (every year - sometimes 2 times a year as I am a Disney Addict), using my "VIP" priveledges to upgrade from a 3br to 4br presidential (and getting a 35% points discount to boot).  Would I have done it again...maybe not, however now that I did, I love and use the benefits gained.  I have a friend that purchased resale (wyndam) than paid $25,000 for a 2-bd Marriott in Aruba through the developer.  She liked the perks that the developer was offering and felt it was worth it to her.  So, its a matter of choice, and if you need or want more points, buy them resale at another resort.  As most people purchase their first TS through the developer, and many other owners do to, for various reasons which are important to them.   In the end you do what you think is best, and enjoy your TS purchase, and the vacations and perks that come with it.


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## bnoble (Mar 5, 2008)

What time of year has both 3BR and 4BR still available in BC at the 45-day mark?


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## lprstn (Mar 5, 2008)

bnoble said:


> What time of year has both 3BR and 4BR still available in BC at the 45-day mark?


I am in a 4br (March 13-16) I upgraded from a 3br (with a reservation I booked in my 60 day window - had to call early in the morn to get that one) next week for 3 days, then upgraded from 2br (4 days) to a 3 br for the remainder of the week.   I usually book it, when the 60 day discount window comes I snag a like unit, cancelling my previous reservation, then call exactly 45days out to snag my upgrade.  I also did it @ Kingsgate (This Apr) and Skyline in Atlantic City (This May - can't seem to get a 3br there, but I usually upgrade from 1br to 2br).


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