# [2009] The Dawn Beach Resort and Spa [moved]



## josh2268

I saw this resort in II getways for St. Maarten.   Is this just a desperate attempt to fill vacancies in starwood hotels? or a place that could have timeshare units at some point?


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## DeniseM

It looks like it's a hotel - http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1770 but it does look nice!

It definitely is not part of the Starwood Vacation Network (timeshares.)


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## jarta

josh,   ...   Looks like a pretty nice place in a pretty nice location.  Why do you say that running an II getaway is a "desperate attempt?"  Couldn't it just be a way to advertise to get more people to come to and tell their friends about a rather new Starwood resort that opened in 2007?  Had you even heard of it before you saw the ad for the getaway?  I didn't know it existed until I read your post.

As for timeshares, that decision would probably be greatly influenced by how much undeveloped land is still available on site.  Even more determinative is how the economy performs.  Right now, due to the economy, Starwood is not starting anything new concerning timeshares.  Everything new has been put on hold.

I was told at my owners update last month at WKV that Starwood has identified 25 sites for new timeshare resorts once the economy turns around.  But right now I'd consider anything on the list (assuming it really exists) to be a pipe dream.   ...   eom


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## califgal

I've heard the resort is nice and the beach looks beautiful.  I'd like to go there one of these days.  You can find reviews on flyertalk in the Starwood section.


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## josh2268

jarta said:


> I was told at my owners update last month at WKV that Starwood has identified 25 sites for new timeshare resorts once the economy turns around.  But right now I'd consider anything on the list (assuming it really exists) to be a pipe dream.   ...   eom



Did they mention where any of those 25 are ?


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## jarta

josh,   ...   Only one place was mentioned by name.  Turtle Bay on the North Coast of Oahu.  It is an old resort with 880 acres and 5 miles of beach.  I was told Turtle Bay was considered desirable because the "excess" vacant land offered the opportunity for expansion of the facilities, including possible timeshares.

I was also told that Starwood was evaluating all the present SVO resorts to see if there were any that should be dropped.  (Other TUG members have confirmed to me in PMs that they, too, were told the same thing.)  There is no guarantee that any resort will forever be in the SVO network.  IMO, there is also no guarantee that there will forever be an SVO network.  As far as I know, no final decisions have been made or are close to being made.

None of this brain-storming about the future of Starwood should be thought of as engraved in stone.  It's just a routine (and probably ongoing) re-evaluation of where Starwood can best expand its efforts.  As I said, in this economy, any future expansion should still be considered a pipe dream.   ...   eom


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## bizaro86

This development was built with an adjacent building of condominiums, which they were generally unsuccessful in selling. (It turns out recessions are a negative for million $+ discretionary purchases)

Anyway, it sounds like they've decided to convert the condos into a residence club. Their website is here: http://www.stmaartenresidences.com/

Currently it has zero information, but the old website for the condo sales centre redirects there. 

Sounds like it'll be an II resort.

Michael


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## josh2268

bizaro86 said:


> This development was built with an adjacent building of condominiums, which they were generally unsuccessful in selling. (It turns out recessions are a negative for million $+ discretionary purchases)
> 
> Anyway, it sounds like they've decided to convert the condos into a residence club. Their website is here: http://www.stmaartenresidences.com/
> 
> Currently it has zero information, but the old website for the condo sales centre redirects there.
> 
> Sounds like it'll be an II resort.
> 
> Michael




Michael, thank you for the follow up.  Ill be interested to see what happens.   Only thing I found online was a mention of a company to provide what they are calling timeshare software. 

http://www.thetimeshareblog.com/tag/dawn-beach-club/


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## jarta

josh,   ...   It appears that a company called Babitbay Development is the developer of Dawn Beach Club.  

I can find no links to Starwood at all.  In fact when it was operating under another name, The Westin St. Maarten Dawn Beach Residences, the development information said it had a license to use the Westin trademarks and tradenames, but the residences "are not owned, developed or sold by" Starwood or Westin.  By now this license may have expired or not been renewed.

http://www.stmaartenresidences.com/popup/terms.html

It seems this development went dormant for a while and I don't think this place will be part of SVO if it ever gets up and running.   ...   eom


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## skidoc

Yes, I remember walking by this building when we walked Dawn Beach when we stayed at OBBR last year; it's adjacent to the Westin.  We just received an advertising flyer to visit (4 nights at the Westin for $399); we loved St. Maarten and maybe we can swing a getaway without the kids......  

Anyway, the flyer describes that the Dawn Beach Club will have use of the Westin facilities, etc.  And, yes, it is an II property.

www.dawnbeachclub.com


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## mindy35

*We've been there*

We visited the Westin Dawn Beach shortly after it opened (I think it opened in Nov. and we visited in Feb.). I believe we even used our bonus SPG points from our SVO purchase for our stay as they were having an opening special. They were even still laying out the grass and adding finishing touches while we were there.

It is a beautiful resort on one of the best swimable beaches of the Island. The locals and regulars were pretty annoyed during construction as their private hideaway was being desecrated by a big chain hotel. 

If I remember right WDB is a Starwood managed but not Starwood owned resort. They were still working out the kinks in terms of service and the resort was not full when we were there. The restaurant was overpriced  but there are so many wonderful eateries on the island that it would be a shame to stay on property anyway. The rooms were spacious and similar in design to the SVO decor we are all familiar with.

They were still in the midst on construction on the adjacent 99 condos. Even then, we were told they were to be privately owned, "lavishly decorated" residences which would have their own facilities not tied to the resort. There was no sales facility on the Resort property and they were not trying to market it in any way while we were there.

Due to the narrow and winding road to access and the fact that the resort itself is squeezed and tucked into a rocky cliff, I can't imagine there would be 1. space for an SVO property anywhere nearby and 2. The accepting climate of the local neighborhood to a project of that scale. The surrounding businesses were also just in the beginning stages of development. I would venture to guess that in the immediate area of the resort there are still many empty condo's and storefronts. I would also predict that they might be quite sour to more development as they were not very happy at all about this project. 

Maybe SVO was considering  another location on the Island? I know of one great, abandoned,  parcel that was once a Radisson but we had heard back then it was already in the early stages of re-development. It was on the French side of the Island on a fantastic beach.

If they haven't already sold the units, I would not be surprised if Starwood spun off the residence project all together due to the current RE market. I could very well be run by a company independent of the Westin Resort. Kind of what Westin did with the Regina properties in Cabo. The Resort is still Westin, there are the Grand Residences and then Raintree took over their adjacent timeshare property. The SVO piece just never materialized. 

I would also check out the reviews pf the resort on tripadvisor if you are researching. I don't know why they would post what is obviously a hotel/resort property on RW????? Something sound fishy to me.


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## James1975NY

mindy35 said:


> They were still in the midst on construction on the adjacent 99 condos. Even then, we were told they were to be privately owned, "lavishly decorated" residences which would have their own facilities not tied to the resort. There was no sales facility on the Resort property and they were not trying to market it in any way while we were there.



These "condos" could be timeshares, fractional ownership, whole ownership, condo/hotel or all of the above.


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## mindy35

James1975NY said:


> These "condos" could be timeshares, fractional ownership, whole ownership, condo/hotel or all of the above.



The original plan was whole ownership residences. A new owner could consider TS's but they almost certainly would not be SVO.


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## jarta

Looks like Dawn Beach is going to be run by Cincinnati-based Columbia Sussex (Bill Yung).  Yung is a little-known and very private billionaire who owns Columbia Sussex outright.  It manages a lot of Marriott hotels and he has previous ties to Starwood.

However, Yung is a notorious cost-cutter.  About 4 years ago Yung bought the Tropicana gambling operation to get a foothold in both LV and Atlantic City for his mostly riverboat gaming wing of Columbia Sussex.  Yung went into LV and Atlantic City and wielded such a hatchet that he was accused of jeopardizing health standards (probably an exaggeration), the NJ gaming commission yanked the Tropicana's license because of a lack of internal independent financial oversight at Tropicana Enterprises (Yung said it had been set up; the commission said it never was independent of Yung) and he lost the Tropicana operations.

Yung is still obscenely rich.  But, beware.  He started out as an efficiency expert at Proctor and Gamble and had a spectacular rise and, lately, quite a fall.  If he is taking over Dawn Beach, he will have the money to finish it.  But, even more than most timeshare developers, he is known for being tight-fisted to a fault.  His management company will surely keep MF low, but look out for the quality of the final finishes.

More on Yung and Columbia Sussex:

II says: "Dawn Beach Club marked the entrance of Columbia Sussex Corporation, one of North America’s leading independent owners and operators of resorts and hotels, into the shared ownership industry."

http://www.hotelinteractive.com/article.aspx?articleid=15885

http://www.lvrj.com/business/12456031.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/....-1-Columbia-Sussex-tops-list-3-years-running

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/06/09/daily1.html


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## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach is a time share*

We bought 2 weeks ago. A 3 bedroom Beach front time share. Gorgeous. Maintenance fee is $1050. Great price we thought


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## DeniseM

jft310 said:


> We bought 2 weeks ago. A 3 bedroom Beach front time share. Gorgeous. Maintenance fee is $1050. Great price we thought



But, you know it's not part of the Starwood Vacation Network, right?


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## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach St Martin*

They state they have 65 timeshares within Westin now and it comes with an Interval Int 3 year paid Gold membership. A 3 bedroom in St Martin in any time share swap Beachfront will get ya anywhere ya want to go. Its a week buy not points. I own an RCI and an Interval membership and they work for me. The Hotel points thing I use infrequently.


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## DavidnRobin

jft310 said:


> They state they have 65 timeshares within Westin now and it comes with an Interval Int 3 year paid Gold membership. A 3 bedroom in St Martin in any time share swap Beachfront will get ya anywhere ya want to go. Its a week buy not points. I own an RCI and an Interval membership and they work for me. The Hotel points thing I use infrequently.



Regardless - it is not an SVO (or SVN) resort.  I hope you understand (on paper - and not verbally) exactly what you bought (vs what they told you...)
Westin (SVO/SVN) does not have 65 timeshares...  It sounds as if you can use II to get into Westin/SVN timeshares (plus others as normal), but that is not the same thing.

Most Timeshares (if not all?) have access to II and/or RCI.

How can you tell if a TS salesperson is lying?
{their lips are moving...}


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## DeniseM

As David said, Westin may be the Mgmt. company, but the timeshare isn't in the Starwood Vacation Network, so you will not have Staroptions, or be able to trade in the SVN.


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## SMHarman

DeniseM said:


> But, you know it's not part of the Starwood Vacation Network, right?


How does that work that there are Westin TS that are not part of SVN.  What is the back story there?  If you know!


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## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach*

I have owned time shares since 82. Know the system well. Yes the Westin has 65 Westin's with time shares now. If you have not checked recently then how would you know???? I bought use for 99 years at this resort.One can switch within the the Westin network see their website for time share Westin owners.
I am not familiar with what you own.
Bought my Mayan Palace Puerta Vallarta for $7,000 for a two bedroom on the beach from them in 93 . Two weeks use for that price. I only buy deals.


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## DavidnRobin

jft310 said:


> I have owned time shares since 82. Know the system well. Yes the Westin has 65 Westin's with time shares now. If you have not checked recently then how would you know???? I bought use for 99 years at this resort.One can switch within the the Westin network see their website for time share Westin owners.
> I am not familiar with what you own.
> Bought my Mayan Palace Puerta Vallarta for $7,000 for a two bedroom on the beach from them in 93 . Two weeks use for that price. I only buy deals.



I was going to be sarcastic, but thought better...

Again, SVO/SVN does not have 65 TSs - I cannot speak to what you brought, but it is not within the SVN system.  Did you notice that this is a SVO forum?
We own 4 Westin/SVO resorts (as it states to the left)

Westin Dawn Beach is part of Starwood Hotels (SPG) - of which there are many (many) branded Starwood hotels (Westin, W, Aloft, Sheraton, FourPoints, etc.) - HOWEVER, as you may see from the top of this forum - this is a SVO (Starwood Vacation Ownership) forum.  Perhaps, you should go to the Flyertalk/SPG forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest-429/) and brag about your great deal there BECAUSE your Westin Dawn Beach is not part of the SVO system, but is part of SPG.

best of luck.
(ps - this is also an old thread - 2009 with the last post before yours in 2010)

*From MyStarCentral (today) - the SVO Resorts are:* 
  Sheraton Broadway Plantation, Myrtle Beach, SC 
  Sheraton Desert Oasis, Scottsdale, AZ 
  Sheraton Mountain Vista, Avon, CO 
  Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort, Port St. Lucie, FL 
  Sheraton Steamboat Resort Villas, Steamboat Springs, CO 
  Sheraton Vistana Resort, Orlando, FL 
  Sheraton Vistana Villages, Orlando, FL 
  The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert, CA 
  The Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort Villas, Maui, HI 
  The Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort Villas North, Maui, HI 
  The Westin Kierland Villas, Scottsdale, AZ 
  The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort, Cancun, Mexico 
  The Westin Mission Hills Resort & Villas, Rancho Mirage, CA 
  The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas, Kaua‘i, HI 
  The Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas, Avon, CO 
  The Westin St. John Resort & Villas, U.S. Virgin Islands 
  Harborside Resort at Atlantis, Paradise Island, Bahamas 
  Lakeside Terrace, Avon, CO 
  Vistana's Beach Club, Jensen Beach, FL


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## DeniseM

> If you have not checked recently then how would you know????



1)  Here is the sniff test - How many Staroptions is your timeshare worth?

2)  Here is Starwood's website with all SVN resorts - please tell me what number your timeshare is on the list?

http://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/villa-collection/?IM=SVOREDIRECT_201302_SVN_RESORTS

3)  What is the url of the website you are looking at for internal Starwood exchanges?


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## DeniseM

Oops...I think this guy got duped!


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Oops...I think this guy got duped!



I think they are just confused about what they own, but for some reason thinks that we do not know...
(another 32,813 posts by them and they will have caught up to you... )

this is what they probably own - and they have not noticed (yet) that it is not actually part of SVO/SVN/or SPG...
{other than what a TS salesperson just lied to them about...}

http://www.dawnbeachclub.com/
Notice that no where on this site is the word 'Westin' used - it is adjacent to the Westin Dawn Beach hotel.
SPG points cannot be used to stay at the Dawn Beach Club - only the hotel.


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## DeniseM

But what do you think he meant by this?



> One can switch within the the Westin network see their website for time share Westin owners.



Someone had to have told him that...


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> But what do you think he meant by this?
> 
> 
> 
> Someone had to have told him that...



TS sales lips moving = lies, lies, lies

I think he is now in the denial phase - soon to enter the acceptance phase.

notice how quiet it has become on this topic
notice MFs mentioned, but zero talk about how much spent to acquire this fantastic TS?


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## DeniseM

I think that first, he frantically searched through his purchase papers for evidence to prove that he is a member of the SVN, and when he couldn't find it, he called his sales person, who is now telling him how he can trade through II, and what a great trader it will be, and how he can just trade for anything and everything....

My second prediction is that with a 3 bdm., Ocean Front, and a MF of $1,050 - he bought every-other-year, so it's $2,100 per use year.


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## DavidnRobin

SMHarman said:


> How does that work that there are Westin TS that are not part of SVN.  What is the back story there?  If you know!



It is not a Westin TS...
it is most likely www.dawnbeachclub.com


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## DeniseM

Starwood is a Mgmt. company - they manage other resorts that aren't in the SVN as well.


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> My second prediction is that with a 3 bdm., Ocean Front, and a MF of $1,050 - he bought every-other-year, so it's $2,100 per use year.



I agree - given that there are two rentals on eBay (Buy it now) for $2500, but no resales - and the description of the VOIs on the web site.

I have a feeling we will not hear back from jft...


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## gravitar

The Dawn Beach Club is the timeshare that is on the same grounds as The Westin Dawn Beach Resort and Spa

You check in for both resorts at the front desk of the Westin Hotel.

In 2011 I traded into The Dawn Beach Club using a studio lock off from one of my Starwood Vacation Network weeks. I traded via II

I was chased (literally) around the resort for 6 days by the sales staff. They would not take no for an answer. They told outright lies as they followed me around trying to get me into the sales office.

Just because you check in at the Westin front desk does not make it a Westin timeshare, let alone a part of SVO. The timeshare website does not even mention Westin. The PDF brochure that you can download from their site does not mention Westin.

The moving lips do though

I hope you do enjoy the resort and the trades via II. SXM is a great place to vacation!  I do think it is a really nice property.

TW


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## DavidnRobin

from TripAdvisor for the Westin Dawn Beach (next to Dawn Beach Club Timeshare)

“Scam”
Reviewed October 10, 2012
Beware of time share scams at this hotel. We didn't stay here but were flagged down as we drove by. They gave us a lottery style ticket to scratch off and then told us we had won the grand prize and got very excited for us. We just needed to go inside the office to claim it. They gave us a few drinks, walked us around and gave us a time share hard sell that was a huge waste of our day - all of course before they'd give us our grand prize worth at least "$1,000". Surprise! We won 3 nights at some piece of crap hotel in Cancun not even a Westin or Starwood resort. We were so angry that we had actually fallen for this. Shame on you Westin. If this is how you try to win customers, it definately does not work! As far as what I could tell from our forced tour of the hotel, it was not worth the exhorbitant costs. Our privately owned and rented condo on the other side of the bay was 1/4 the price of a room at the Westin and just as nice. Oh, also the Westin built on and thus destroyed what used to be one of the best beaches on St. Martin - now a lot of the corral that used to attract snorkelers is damaged and you are forced to listen to club beats next to the resort bar all day if you want to visit their beach (all beaches on St. Martin / St. Maartan are public, even this one). So, basically if you feel like selling your soul to the devil - go ahead and stay there and support hell on earth. 

then...

MODSXM, Manager at The Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa, St. Maarten, responded to this review 
October 18, 2012
Dear JanvierPapillon,

I sincerely hope that you enjoyed your visit to St. Maarten and the Oyster Bay area. I am sorry that you did not enjoy your tour of the Dawn Beach Club. While the *Dawn Beach Club is separate from the Westin Dawn Beach Resort *and Spa one of the best perks of ownership is that you are able to enjoy all of the amenities that the Westin has to offer. This includes, the pool and beach facilities, the Westin Workout room, restaurants, the Hibiscus Spa, casino and even in-room dining. Besides the use of the Westin facilities *Dawn Beach Club is not affiliated with Westin Hotels or Starwood*. 

While we appreciate that our resort might be the right feel for everyone. We are proud that we have many guests that return year after year because they love the ambiance at the Westin, Dawn Beach and the Oyster Bay area of St. Maarten. Many of whom enjoy snorkeling right off shore. 

I hope that you continue to enjoy all that beautiful St. Maarten/St. Martin has to offer in your upcoming visits. 

Sincerely,
Daniel Beddor
Director of Rooms
Westin Dawn Beach Resort and Spa


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## Ken555

jft310 said:


> I only buy deals.



I am truly sympathetic to anyone who thinks this can even be a possibility when buying retail.


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## Pedro

jft310 said:


> I have owned time shares since 82. Know the system well. Yes the Westin has 65 Westin's with time shares now. If you have not checked recently then how would you know???? I bought use for 99 years at this resort.One can switch within the the Westin network see their website for time share Westin owners.
> I am not familiar with what you own.
> Bought my Mayan Palace Puerta Vallarta for $7,000 for a two bedroom on the beach from them in 93 . Two weeks use for that price. I only buy deals.


 
Since you know so much, maybe you can enlighten us.  What exactly is "the Westin network"?  Also, please share the link to the website you referred to.


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## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach*

This is website for Westin Dawn Beach. One has to ask why others are bashing on this site. Why??
Who do you work for???Why are you here???What motivates you??
In the IL system a 3 bedroom Penthouse Beachfront adjacent to the Westin with 1850 square feet is off the wall in swapping power in the IL system. This property was not mentioned as SVO. The salesman may have taken some liberties but they all do. I was told I could swap into other Westin timeshares and I can I just must use IL.
I prefer to not be limited with where there is a Westin but to thousands of additional swaps.To those that are love in SVO well have at it. If want to travel to a destinations other than where there is a Westin and affiliate what do you do??
I use RCI with the Mayan Palace swap and plan on using The Dawn Beach St Martin ownership to swap within IL. That gives me 5,000 places to stay in total. Between the two swaps I can go where I want when I want And I didn't pay a large fee to buy into either.
Please reframe from bashing something you don't know the details about!Thanks in Advance.


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## gravitar

jft310 said:


> In the IL system a 3 bedroom Penthouse Beachfront adjacent to the Westin with 1850 square feet is off the wall in swapping power in the IL system. ... plan on using The Dawn Beach St Martin ownership to swap within IL. Please reframe from bashing something you don't know the details about!Thanks in Advance.



Would love to know what the *IL* system is.  Can you provide a link please?

Oh, and if it actually is the II...... :ignore:


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## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach*

Lots of Westin Dawn Beach bashers. Again I ask why??
What do you have to gain from these bashes.?
Facts its a beautiful property, Part of Interval International as everyone knows is a 3 bedroom Penthouse Beachfront. Fixed week.
All the 3 bedroom units face the Beach some closer than others.Hard to argue with those facts. 1850 sqaure feet with granite and stainless appliances, etc.
Island of St Martin.
Really mean persons here who have an axe to grind. One has to ask why?
Please reframe from posting about a place you have never been and don't understand.
Who pays you to post on these pages bashing this resort.??
I wasn't chased by anyone ever.


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## DeniseM

jft310 - No one has said one negative word about the property - it is your understanding of what you bought that is the issue here.

Starwood owners can trade in II AND trade in the SVN.  In fact, we have first priority in II for all Starwood exchanges.  

You came here posting about how you can trade it in the "Westin Network", and you were wrong.  We explained the facts to you - but you don't like the facts.  So be it.

Since you didn't buy a Starwood property, there is no reason for you to post in this forum an more.  I suggest that you try the Caribbean forum, and I suggest that you learn some manners.


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## SMHarman

jft310 said:


> Lots of Westin Dawn Beach bashers. Again I ask why??
> What do you have to gain from these bashes.?
> Facts its a beautiful property, Part of Interval International as everyone knows is a 3 bedroom Penthouse Beachfront. Fixed week.
> All the 3 bedroom units face the Beach some closer than others.Hard to argue with those facts. 1850 sqaure feet with granite and stainless appliances, etc.
> Island of St Martin.
> Really mean persons here who have an axe to grind. One has to ask why?
> Please reframe from posting about a place you have never been and don't understand.
> Who pays you to post on these pages bashing this resort.??
> I wasn't chased by anyone ever.


Not much bashing of the Westin Dawn Beach here, merely pointing out that the timeshare next door that uses the Westin Dawn Beach facilities is not affiliated with Westin, just has a use agreement with the nearby hotel.
Then everyone has asked you to show us this website detailing 65 different Westin exchange opportunities.  As far as this group of Westin bashers knows we only have about 20 resorts in the Starwood / Westin Vacation Network and the Dawn Beach is not one of them.
You then talk about exchanging with II or RCI.  Well you can do that with any Timeshare, like the Dawn Beach Club, not just a Westin one.
With the Dawn Beach Club you will not have the Westin / Starwood > Starwood advantage of trading in II but yes you can trade.
Enjoy your deal, you are getting told here that your salesperson lied to you about the Westin affiliation, benefits, exchange process, nothing more.
While you say it is a great property, remember 50% of what you paid for it is to cover the marketing expenses and commission of that sales person.


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## LisaRex

Some comments:

1) Coincidentally, we just rented a house on St. Maarten (http://www.vrbo.com/214580) for Jan '14 that overlooks Westin Dawn Beach resort! (Doesn't it look awesome?) I'll be a Tugger on a mission and check out the Westin Dawn Beach as thoroughly as I can while being staving off TS salesman! (Seriously, Westin Dawn Beach.  That's tacky and sooo 1980s!)

2) Jarta, it's Procter, not Proctor.   Thanks for the info on this Yung fellow.  Never heard of him, which means that he truly must be private.  I'll check him out.  

3) There is current a bill being introduced in St. Maarten to protect TS owners. From what, I'm unsure of.   There was a recent kerfuffle with Pelican Bay owners that involved shutting out owners for a few weeks. http://www.todaysxm.com/2013/02/25/...-36000-timeshare-owners-have-left-the-island/

4) Westin Dawn Beach Resort is definitely not be a part of SVO, which is Starwood's official timeshare branch.  However, if it's comparable to other official Westin timeshare resorts (quality wise), enjoys great II trading power, and bears the Westin brand...then the only thing truly distinguishing it from any Starwood resort deposited into II, is the Starwood priority in II, no?  (And wouldn't it be interesting it if DID have a Starwood priority?  Maybe jft10 could use his new purchase as a test...?)  

So I think we should all relax a little.  It's probably true that it will trade for other Westins, just via II.  Or, if it's as nice as it appears, he should be able to negotiate direct exchanges, especially since it's a 3 bdrm.  Plus, if they get rid of the obnoxious TS salesmen, it may be an awesome place for SVO owners to exchange to via II!

5)  Good information, mindy35.  Thanks for sharing.  Hopefully I can pick your brain for things to do on St. Maarten, since this will be a new place for me.

6) Welcome to Tug, jft10!  Dawn Beach sounds incredibly nice.  Hope you enjoy lots of great vacations in years to come.  That's why we're all here, even if we're a bit cantankerous at times.


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## DeniseM

LisaRex said:


> However, if it's comparable to other official Westin timeshare resorts (quality wise), enjoys great II trading power, bears the Westin brand..



Lisa - look at the link to the website - it doesn't have the Westin brand, and it's not in the SVN, so it will not have the II preference.


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## LisaRex

DeniseM said:


> Lisa - look at the link to the website - it doesn't have the Westin brand, and it's not in the SVN, so it will not have the II preference.



I'm looking at the II resort directory and there is, indeed, a Westin Dawn Beach Resort listed.  It definitely has the Westin Brand, but you're right that it probably doesn't enjoy Starwood priority in II.  

Whatever it is, is looks very nice and I WISH it was in SVN. 

http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1503&resortCode=DB2&parentResortCode=DB2

http://timeshareadvisor.com/resort/...sort-and-Spa_4803_Netherlands-Antilles_photos


----------



## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach*

Lets see some DD from the nonowners, non visitors who have opinions without facts.
How hard would it be to go to the Interval International website and see the Westin Dawn Beach and the other Westin timeshares.. Geez that would take some DD huh.Are they there well of course they are!!
Before you respond go to the website!!
Actually we bought two weeks for the price of one. We have 99 years to use. And the maintenance fee is $1050 per weeks use each year. But why deal in facts.
Why read your contract we have persons posting here who have never visited never seen a contract with opinions.WHY????
If you have not visited why do you share you opinion here!! 
Please explain who you are helping with your distortions!
Just curious!
Whats your motivation to fly by the seat of your pants!


----------



## SMHarman

LisaRex said:


> I'm looking at the II resort directory and there is, indeed, a Westin Dawn Beach Resort listed.  It definitely has the Westin Brand, but you're right that it probably doesn't enjoy Starwood priority in II.
> 
> Whatever it is, is looks very nice and I WISH it was in SVN.
> 
> http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1503&resortCode=DB2&parentResortCode=DB2
> 
> http://timeshareadvisor.com/resort/...sort-and-Spa_4803_Netherlands-Antilles_photos


But I think jft310 is talking about
http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1503&resortCode=DBS&parentResortCode=DBS the unit capacity is more aligned with his purchase.

Here is the website http://www.dawnbeachclub.com/resort_overview.php

The DB2 is I think hotel rooms that Westin Dawn Beach are putting into II to help capacity utilization on a new hotel in a down economy.
See the comment at the bottom of that II property
_NOTE: The accommodations listed under this resort code are available for purchase through the Getaway program and generally will not be available for exchange._

jft310, this was under consideration as a destination for our winter break this year.  Ultimately rejected as access from the West Coast for the friends joining us was a PITA but FYI I have done research on the destination and am not hating, just highlighting that your TS ajoins a Westin and is not a Westin.


----------



## jft310

*Westin Dawn Beach*

My purchase does not show at Interval yet. Glad to be a test.
Any 3 bedroom Beachfront Penthouse in Saint Marten will have some type priority over other swaps. It is not a lockout.Is it in the Starwood priority at II I can't say.
Who started this string under Starwood for the Dawn Beach . Ah not me. 
Glad to share the results when my unit shows up at II.
The salesman did state 65 Westin timeshares I thought I heard but I just didn't care about that and had no bearing on my buy.
Two weeks for the price of one Penthouse Beachfront 3 bedroom 1850 sq ft fixed week member of II Gold got me.The place is drop dead gorgeous and compares to my Westin suite stay at Kanapoli in 2000.
I traded in an Hilton Vacation Club at Seawatch on the Beach at Ft Myers for an extravagant trade in value . How much I paid is hard to figure cause what they said they gave me as trade in value had no relation to what the wholesale price was direct from the Seawatch.Or the games they play.


----------



## LisaRex

jft310 said:


> Lets see some DD from the nonowners, non visitors who have opinions without facts.
> How hard would it be to go to the Interval International website and see the Westin Dawn Beach and the other Westin timeshares.. Geez that would take some DD huh.Are they there well of course they are!!
> Before you respond go to the website!!
> Actually we bought two weeks for the price of one. We have 99 years to use. And the maintenance fee is $1050 per weeks use each year. But why deal in facts.
> Why read your contract we have persons posting here who have never visited never seen a contract with opinions.WHY????
> If you have not visited why do you share you opinion here!!
> Please explain who you are helping with your distortions!
> Just curious!
> Whats your motivation to fly by the seat of your pants!



jft310, I get that you felt a bit attacked when you arrived, but it would be nice if you wouldn't respond so beligerently.  Civil discourse is a two-sided street. 

I think there's confusion here, in part because when we're all Starwood timeshare owners and what you bought is apparently a Westin-branded timeshare that isn't a part of the "official" Starwood timeshare network, SVN.  It's also odd that when I search "Westin Dawn Beach timeshare" I don't get a sales site.  That is odd for a timeshare.  They're usually all over the place trying to get new owners!

The salesmen mentioning 65 other resorts is also a bit odd because by my count, there are only 19 other Starwood (Sheraton and Westin) resorts in the official network.  So you either misheard or the salesman misled you.  The former is forgivable, the latter rankles us because we pride ourselves here on speaking the truth.  Sadly, timeshare salesman often deliberately mislead people in order to close a deal. 

http://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/?IM=SVOREDIRECT_201302_SVN

So, first of all congratulations on a purchase that you seem very excited about.  Secondly, thank you for offering to be a guinea pig in II to see if your new purchase has Starwood priority in it.  Finally, dare I ask what you paid for your purchase? I'm traveling to St. Maarten in January and hope that I don't fall in love with it.  But if I do...?


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> I think there's confusion here, in part because when we're all Starwood timeshare owners and what you bought is apparently a Westin-branded timeshare that isn't a part of the "official" Starwood timeshare network, SVN.



LisaR - per multiple responses (and one copied directly from Westin Dawn Beach representative in the TripAdvisor response) - Dawn Beach Club is not a Westin-branded timeshare, and not (even unofficially) part of SVN.  This was my/our point, that jft refuses to hear, and it seems is more willing to believe a TS salesperson.

It is part of II (no one stated otherwise), but unlikely to have Starwood priority as it is not part of SVO, or SPG (Westin Dawn Beach is in SPG, but not DBC).

We/I were merely trying to help out, and inform them that they were misinformed by the TS sales at DBC, but didn't accept our 'uninformed' position as we know nothing about it...

added - your response to jarta was a post made in 2010.


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> I'm looking at the II resort directory and there is, indeed, a Westin Dawn Beach Resort listed.  It definitely has the Westin Brand, but you're right that it probably doesn't enjoy Starwood priority in II.
> 
> Whatever it is, is looks very nice and I WISH it was in SVN.
> 
> http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1503&resortCode=DB2&parentResortCode=DB2
> 
> http://timeshareadvisor.com/resort/...sort-and-Spa_4803_Netherlands-Antilles_photos



Westin Dawn Beach (WDB) and DBC are two separate entities.  DBC is in II. WDB is part of SPG.  DBC is not part of SPG, SVO, or SVN. DBC is not Westin branded - WDB is a Westin brand.

The OP calls it WDB, but it is DBC - these two are not the same and calling one by the other is only leading to confusion - of which it seems the TS salesperson is using this tactic to sell DBC.

WDB = SPG Hotel
DBC = TS (not Westin, not SVO/SVN)

This is clear - and all I was trying to tell the OP.  Whether they want to accept or not - is on them.  Nobody was saying they didn't get a 'deal' or DBC wasn't a great TS.


----------



## DeniseM

jft310 - I will be moving all your future posts to the Caribbean forum, because you don't own a Starwood timeshare and your posts don't belong on the Starwood forum.

As to who I am, I am the moderator of this forum.  The people you are arguing with are trying to help you, and have years of experience with Starwood.  Your arguments are nonsensical, because you don't have the facts to back them up.  You are simply responding emotionally, because you have been sold a bill of goods. 

[I also suspect that you financed and are paying interest on your purchase.  The 2nd issue is that the timeshare that you "traded in" may never be taken out of your name - this is a common scam in the retail industry - especially outside the country.) 


Lisa - I know you are trying to be nice, but you are just enabling the OP - this is not a Starwood resort.


----------



## Fredm

jft310 said:


> Lets see some DD from the nonowners, non visitors who have opinions without facts.
> How hard would it be to go to the Interval International website and see the Westin Dawn Beach and the other Westin timeshares.. Geez that would take some DD huh.Are they there well of course they are!!
> Before you respond go to the website!!
> Actually we bought two weeks for the price of one. We have 99 years to use. And the maintenance fee is $1050 per weeks use each year. But why deal in facts.
> Why read your contract we have persons posting here who have never visited never seen a contract with opinions.WHY????
> If you have not visited why do you share you opinion here!!
> Please explain who you are helping with your distortions!
> Just curious!
> Whats your motivation to fly by the seat of your pants!



Your confusion is understandable.

Westin hotels/resorts in Mexico have shared resort grounds with Regina  timeshare developments for years.  
So, you will see timeshare resort names like Westin Regina Cabo, Westin Regina PV, Westin Regina Cancun.
Some owners actually believed they were purchasing the timeshare from Starawood. But, they were not.  A shared facilities agreement between the Westin hotel and the timeshare property did exist.
None of them were included in the Starwood Vacation Network. 

Seems to me Dawn Beach Club is following the same template. Although it is clear that the Westin name is not used by the Dawn Beach Club.

As others have already said, you will not be able to exchange within the Starwood Vacation Nework. Nor will you receive Starwood priority for exchange to other Starwood ownership resorts via I.I.
You can exchange via I.I. on the same basis as any other I.I. member to anywhere in the I.I. network of affiliated resorts.

Hope you have many years of enjoyable vacations.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> jft310 - I will be moving all your future posts to the Caribbean forum, because you don't own a Starwood timeshare and your posts don't belong on the Starwood forum.
> 
> As to who I am, I am the moderator of this forum.
> 
> Lisa - I know you are trying to be nice, but you are just enabling the OP - this is not a Starwood resort.



Or perhaps better suited for All Other TS Resort forum..
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30


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## Captron

The resort and the location are what they are, I haven't seen anyone bashing the property here. The ownership interest does not have Westin in it's name. According to David's post above. "Besides the use of the Westin facilities Dawn Beach Club is not affiliated with Westin Hotels or Starwood." My conclusion is that the resort is paying Westin for the use of the facilities.

It is well documented that there are not 65 Westin Ownership resorts. We are all quite clear that Dawn Beach Club is NOT a Starwood Vacation Ownership resort. This would mean no options, no affiliated internal exchange structure, no exchange priority in II, etc. Let me clarify that "exchange priority" includes a period when only other SVO owners can obtain exchanges into SVO properties deposited with II, before other owners. (Owners of Marriott, Starwood and other systems enjoy this benefit for their own resorts only) The 3BR certainly WILL carry significant trading power, unfortunately without a lockoff, much of that power will be wasted exchanging onto smaller/"lesser" properties if he does choose to exchange.

Another thought/concern would be with the neighboring Westin resort affiliation. These affiliation contracts come up for periodic renewal and may be withdrawn, which would leave his resort without facilities. That would be a BAD thing. My last issue would be the MF. I hope for his sake the MF does not skyrocket, which it likely will, sooner or later (like when the developer stops subsidizing it to make sales).

I wish this person luck and years of enjoyment. I hope he got what he wanted.


----------



## DeniseM

David posted this above, but I think some posters missed it:



> MODSXM, *Manager at The Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa [HOTEL]*, St. Maarten, responded to this review
> 
> October 18, 2012
> Dear JanvierPapillon,
> 
> I sincerely hope that you enjoyed your visit to St. Maarten and the Oyster Bay area. I am sorry that you did not enjoy your tour of the Dawn Beach Club. While *the Dawn Beach Club [TIMESHARE] is separate from the Westin Dawn Beach Resort and Spa [HOTEL]* one of the best perks of ownership is that you are able to enjoy all of the amenities that the Westin has to offer. This includes, the pool and beach facilities, the Westin Workout room, restaurants, the Hibiscus Spa, casino and even in-room dining. *Besides the use of the Westin facilities Dawn Beach Club is NOT affiliated with Westin Hotels or Starwood.
> *
> While we appreciate that our resort might be the right feel for everyone. We are proud that we have many guests that return year after year because they love the ambiance at the Westin, Dawn Beach and the Oyster Bay area of St. Maarten. Many of whom enjoy snorkeling right off shore.
> 
> I hope that you continue to enjoy all that beautiful St. Maarten/St. Martin has to offer in your upcoming visits.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Daniel Beddor
> Director of Rooms
> Westin Dawn Beach Resort and Spa* [HOTEL] *



*[Thread has been moved to Caribbean Forum]*


----------



## LisaRex

http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1502&areaCode=960&areaName=St. Maarten & St. Martin

I got the concept that "Dawn Beach Club" timeshare is adjacent to the "Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa" but not officially a Westin timeshare (similar to Club Regina at Puerto Vallarta).  What had me confused me is that there is a _separate_ listing for "Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa" in II.  I assumed that if an entity was listed in II, it was by definition, an actual timeshare. I was mistaken.  After looking at its occupancy ("2" - thanks SMHarman), it does appear that the Westin HOTEL is using II.  Which I find rather misleading, though not objectionable. (If Days Inn Dubuque starts showing up, I'll object.)   

Now, had WDBR&S listed a 3 bdrm in II, I would have still insisted that it was some weird hotel/timeshare hybrid, and jft10 must have bought THERE. However, since they don't even have 3 bdrm units, per II, he couldn't have bought there.  And since "Dawn Beach Club" ONLY sells 3 bdrms... well, even I can connect those dots.    

The good news for everyone is that BOTH entities are designated gold.  And I'd still gladly consider exchanging to either of them, though honestly, all things being equal, I'd rather stay in a timeshare with kitchen and laundry.  It's odd to feel "spoiled" by the fact that you'd prefer to cook your own meals and do your own laundry, but there you have it.


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1502&areaCode=960&areaName=St. Maarten & St. Martin
> 
> I got the concept that "Dawn Beach Club" timeshare is adjacent to the "Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa" but not officially a Westin timeshare (similar to Club Regina at Puerto Vallarta).  What had me confused me is that there is a _separate_ listing for "Westin Dawn Beach Resort & Spa" in II.  I assumed that if an entity was listed in II, it was by definition, an actual timeshare. I was mistaken.  After looking at its occupancy ("2" - thanks SMHarman), it does appear that the Westin HOTEL is using II.  Which I find rather misleading, though not objectionable. (If Days Inn Dubuque starts showing up, I'll object.)
> 
> Now, had WDBR&S listed a 3 bdrm in II, I would have still insisted that it was some weird hotel/timeshare hybrid, and jft10 must have bought THERE. However, since they don't even have 3 bdrm units, per II, he couldn't have bought there.  And since "Dawn Beach Club" ONLY sells 3 bdrms... well, even I can connect those dots.
> 
> The good news for everyone is that BOTH entities are designated gold.  And I'd still gladly consider exchanging to either of them, though honestly, all things being equal, I'd rather stay in a timeshare with kitchen and laundry.  It's odd to feel "spoiled" by the fact that you'd prefer to cook your own meals and do your own laundry, but there you have it.



I do not disagree - if we were to go to Dawn Beach in St Maarten - I would prefer staying at the DBC over WDB (like you, we prefer staying in a TS over hotel room) - especially after reading the reviews for WDB.  Have you seen the aerial shots of WDB (and DBC)?  Not very enticing, but it sounds as if Dawn Beach area is nice.

I found my info by simply searching for DBC and WDB - not hard to find. It is clear both are in II.  FlyerTalk also has a WDB thread.

However, this thread (since yesterday) is about the assertion by jtf that DBC is a Westin-branded TS, and part of some weird Westin TS club (that does not exist). This is simply incorrect information (typical TS sales BS), and all I/we were trying to do was to inform and help (like we always do).  If it perceived by jtf that we are attacking by giving them 'correct' info and a severe 'watchout!', then that is on them. He is the one that told us that we were full of sh*t, and not the other way around.

Notice that jtf still has not told us what his 'deal' was - like what he actually paid to be a Owner of a 3Bd at DBC - other than some BS about 99 weeks of ownership, and low MFs, etc.

One thing we have all learned (some the hard way) is that this 'deal' from the Developer is almost assuredly not as great as jtf thinks it is - unless it is some 0.0001% anomally - but apparently jtf will not be convinced as he is in the justifying (denial) mode.  I believe that he will someday be in the acceptance mode, but unlikely we will never hear about it since we are the 'bad' guys here.

We have all seen this before (and some are even guilty) of trying to justify a purchase from a Developer.  Some listen and rescind if lucky, and some do not.

I was trying to find out costs for DBC and (weirdly) none were to be found in my searches - now I am curious.


----------



## LisaRex

I just did a search on  "Dawn Beach Club Timeshare" on Yahoo, and guess what came up first?  WestinVacationOwnership.com

(But, no, WDBR&S is NOT listed.)

Acc to this ad, DBC is selling for $55k per year by the developer.  This guy is selling his for $25k.  Others are selling for $7-8k.  None of the ad mentions a season.


----------



## Pmuppet

DavidnRobin said:


> Notice that jtf still has not told us what his 'deal' was - like what he actually paid to be a Owner of a 3Bd at DBC - other than some BS about 99 weeks of ownership, and low MFs, etc.



This is purely hypothetical and I have no inside information, but does anyone get the feeling that JTF is a timeshare salesman just razzing us tuggers?

Cause, he is clearly offended when folks are just trying to help out.  He seems to think all of his purchases are great but doesn't offer any details as to why.

Sounds like a straw house (salesman) to me.

But I could be wrong.


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> I just did a search on  "Dawn Beach Club Timeshare" on Yahoo, and guess what came up first?  WestinVacationOwnership.com
> 
> (But, no, WDBR&S is NOT listed.)
> 
> Acc to this ad, DBC is selling for $55k per year by the developer.  This guy is selling his for $25k.  Others are selling for $7-8k.  None of the ad mentions a season.




This is probably why Yahoo is failing.  Same search on Google has DBC 1st, Timeshare Trap from TripAdvisor 2nd, and this thread on TUG 3rd.

$55K - ouch.
I did not see the resales that you did - at least that I believed...
I saw the $20K for DBC on RW - which has been changed since yesterday (iirc)
There seems to be a surprising lack of info on DBC.

2010 thread for DBC - has people who own there and claim that it is managed by Westin (it does share amenities with WDB) - but based on further investigation - it appears that this is not correct.

btw - your VRBO rental at Dawn Beach looks nice


----------



## DavidnRobin

Pmuppet said:


> This is purely hypothetical and I have no inside information, but does anyone get the feeling that JTF is a timeshare salesman just razzing us tuggers?
> 
> Cause, he is clearly offended when folks are just trying to help out.  He seems to think all of his purchases are great but doesn't offer any details as to why.
> 
> Sounds like a straw house (salesman) to me.
> 
> But I could be wrong.



I thought the same thing, but after reading his very bizaare post (his 1st TUG post) about scamming Mayan TS salespeople - I wasn't as sure.  However, you are possibly correct because he posted 2x on what a great 'deal' he got for DBC.

If he is a sales flunky for DBC - he is probably hating these responses and regrets that this thread is 3rd on Google when searching DBC.


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> $55K - ouch.



1.  Probably financed.
2.  The "trade-in" of his Mexican resort may be bogus as well, because it's hard to even give those things away these day, much less to actually get trade in value out of them.

So now he owns 2 developer purchases, and has payments, and high interest.


----------



## DeniseM

Pmuppet said:


> This is purely hypothetical and I have no inside information, but does anyone get the feeling that JTF is a timeshare salesman just razzing us tuggers?



I don't think so - he is posting from his work IP in VA.


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## SMHarman

DeniseM said:


> I don't think so - he is posting from his work IP in VA.


jft310
Guest
BBS Reg. Date: Mar 25, 13
Location: *Moneta Virginia
*Posts: 8
Resorts: Mayan Palace Marina Puerta Vallarta Westin Dawn Beach Club ST Martin

Gotta love what the admins see!


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## LisaRex

Sorry, I should have posted the link to the ad that I saw where the owner said that the developer is selling these units for $55k.

http://www.myresortnetwork.com/Timeshares-For-Sale/Sint-Maarten/Caribbean/Dawn-Beach-Club/


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## pharmgirl

We rented a 3 bedroom at dawn beach club last year, the units are gorgeous, even nicer than Maui

We weren't enthusiastic about st Martin but the Westin hotel, the timeshare dawn beach club were very nice


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## DeniseM

SMHarman said:


> jft310
> Guest
> BBS Reg. Date: Mar 25, 13
> Location: *Moneta Virginia
> *Posts: 8
> Resorts: Mayan Palace Marina Puerta Vallarta Westin Dawn Beach Club ST Martin
> 
> Gotta love what the admins see!



Sorry if I was unclear - I was saying that his IP address, and he stated location, are one and the same, in response to someone asking if he could be a Sales Rep.


----------



## jft310

*[Dawn Beach Club]*

Paid $7,000 for two weeks in 1993 from the Vidafel which became a Mayan Palace Puerta Vallarta.Thats $7,000 for both weeks.Retail today is $50,000 per week. Not sure who pays that rate???
The St Martin property trade in was with a Hilton Vacation Club in Ft Myers FL.
Paid lower than other prices here posted. Paid cash for the balance. They quoted $50K for a summer week and $70K for a winter week.I negotiated 2 weeks for a fraction of the one week summer week rate.CASH.
My 3 bedroon has laundry facilities a full washer and dryer and a grand kitchen. Remember 1850 sq feet.Granite, brand new .My unit finished in 30 days or so. All 3 bedrooms are Beachfront.
So divide whatever low fee I paid by TWO.

[Inappropriate comments deleted - DeniseM Moderator]


----------



## DeniseM

jft310 said:


> Paid $7,000 for two weeks in 1993 from the Vidafel which became a Mayan Palace Puerta Vallarta.Thats $7,000 for both weeks.Retail today is $50,000 per week. Not sure who pays that rate???
> The St Martin property trade in was with a Hilton Vacation Club in Ft Myers FL.
> Paid lower than other prices here posted. Paid cash for the balance. They quoted $50K for a summer week and $70K for a winter week.I negotiated 2 weeks for a fraction of the one week summer week rate.CASH.
> My 3 bedroon has laundry facilities a full washer and dryer and a grand kitchen. Remember 1850 sq feet.Granite, brand new .My unit finished in 30 days or so. All 3 bedrooms are Beachfront.
> So divide whatever low fee I paid by TWO.



Sounds lovely - truly.  But it's still not in the SVN, so I moved the whole thread to the Caribbean forum.

You will want to bird dog the transfer of your "trade-in" - this is a common scam.


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## DavidnRobin

jtf  keeps referring to this Timeshare as Westin Dawn Beach - this is blantantly incorrect.  What is owned as a Timeshare is the Dawn Beach Club (DBC, as stated on their very fancy brochure, and their website - www.dawnbeachclub.com). The association between the two is the use of the facilities of the adjacent Westin hotel at Dawn Beach - which is nice to have.  WSJ (Westin St John) has a similar arrangement, except WSJ is actually part of SVO/SVN - unlike DBC which is not part of SVO/SVN (or some nonexistant Westin TS club as repeatedly mentioned).

Please see post #49 for the differences (based on facts) between the Westin Hotel at Dawn Beach and the Dawn Beach Club timeshare in regards to SVO/SVN, SPG and II.  Understanding these differences will go a very long way to credibility on multiple levels.


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> jtf  keeps referring to this Timeshare as Westin Dawn Beach - this is blantantly incorrect.



I fixed it for him.


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## siesta

Jft310 is hopelessly confused, thanks to the timeshare salesmen no doubt. Go easy on him guys.

Jft, I do not think you own a Starwood property. You likely own at Dawn Beach Club, which is a very nice resort in its own right, and it may share amenities with the Westin hotel next door.  But the Westin next door is a hotel, you likely own at the timeshare next door. 

 Additionally, the Starwood Vacation Network is made up of Westin and Sheraton Timeshares that form a network.  Owners at these resorts (see www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com) can trade internally among these resorts, as well as via II.  Your timeshare trades in II, and has no internal network.  Its a 3 br at a very nice resort so you should get very nice trades, but you dont get the preference among other Westin and Sheraton timeshares in II, in fact you get no preference at all, because preference is given by II because of the developer.  Another thing, any timehare owner that belongs to II can upgrade to gold, in fact they can also upgrade to platinum, it doesnt matter what/where you own or even the quality of the resort.  The "worst"timeshare in II can still have an II gold or Ii platinum account should they want. II memberships start at $89 annually, you can visit the site to learn more about the tiers and the pricing.  It does not result on your timeshare getting better trades or preference or anything like that. Just gives you extra benefit like getaway discounts, etc., again you can read the site for the info.

Additionslly, there are not 65 westin timeshares, that was a big sales gimmick, in fact do yourself a favor, everything you heard from the salesman consider a lie.  Everything you hear from people on this forum consider the truth, because guess what, the salesman had a vested interest in making a sale and blowing smoke up your youknowwhat, and we have no vested interest.  We would like you to maxmize your purchase and have many wonderful vacations, with no commission going to us.  But first, we need to remove the wool thats been pulled over your eyes, and when you are being combative when you hear the truth some posters get agitated as you can tell.

Last point, dont ever buy from the developer again.  You apparently like a good deal, and let me tell you no good deal ever came from the developer, ever....ever ever ever. (ok there are a few instances like that recent SMV owner resale, but thats a different story!)

Good luck, and welcome to the forum.  With a slight attitude change, and acceptance that you really dont know what your talking about, I think youll make some friends here and more importantly learn to maximize what you own and learn how to be a true timeshare bargain finder and user for the future. see you around the boards.


----------



## LisaRex

siesta said:


> Another thing, any timehare owner that belongs to II can upgrade to gold, in fact they can also upgrade to platinum, it doesnt matter what/where you own or even the quality of the resort.  The "worst"timeshare in II can still have an II gold or Ii platinum account should they want. II memberships start at $89 annually, you can visit the site to learn more about the tiers and the pricing.  It does not result on your timeshare getting better trades or preference or anything like that. Just gives you extra benefit like getaway discounts, etc., again you can read the site for the info.



I don't know about jft10, but I know that when I talked about "gold" in II, I was referring to the resort designation.  Both WDBR&S and DBC have a gold leaf next to their name, which means that they are considered a top tier resort, on par with Starwood, Marriotts, and Hiltons.  

I just looked and the "gold" properties are called "Premier" properties on II, and these are the highest designation.


----------



## siesta

LisaRex said:


> I don't know about jft10, but I know that when I talked about "gold" in II, I was referring to the resort designation.  Both WDBR&S and DBC have a gold leaf next to their name, which means that they are considered a top tier resort, on par with Starwood, Marriotts, and Hiltons.
> 
> I just looked and the "gold" properties are called "Premier" properties on II, and these are the highest designation.


 i actually never saw your reference to "gold" properties, but yes the properties with the gold leaflet next to them are called premier properties.

What I was referring to (which I think you caught too) was this by jft:



> Two weeks for the price of one Penthouse Beachfront 3 bedroom 1850 sq ft fixed week *member of II Gold* got me.



I guess that could be deciphered either way as you just pointed out, now I'm not so sure what he meant. I still have a feeling he meant II gold membership though.


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## LisaRex

siesta said:


> I guess that could be deciphered either way as you just pointed out, now I'm not so sure what he meant. I still have a feeling he meant II gold membership though.



Normally I'd be sarcastic about how punctuation would have perhaps made his post clearer, but now that I have an iPad I'm more lenient.


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## DavidnRobin

siesta - nice post to jtf.  As you saw from the 1st post in this thread by jtf which apparently was just a brag on what a great deal he got at DBC (and looked like some strawman sales ploy...).

We were direct and honest, and told him his info was incorrect - that it was not in SVN, not part of SVO, and there was no other Westin TS club.  We were not rude, and merely trying to set him straight.  I even attempted to clarify to jtf what he owned (after a few minutes of research).  All he did was deny that we knew anything about what he bought (and was quite rude about it), and that he only gets bargain deals as he is a TS expert (since 1993 - wow! impressive).

If getting real information in a direct manner, and going against his pre-conceived notions is attacking - then we are guilty.  But clearly, if you read his very 1st TUG post where he bragged about how he manage to scam $$ from Mayan Palace TS fronts while on vacation in Mexico (who in their right mind spends their vacation - trying to dink money from these TS fronts?) - essentially showing the content of his true character.

Then when asked directly about what he paid for the great deal he got for DBC - he somehow managed to work in his property at Mayan Palace where he paid $7000 for a TS that is essentially worthless eventhough the current  'retail' price is $50000 (right... some incredible bargain hunter he is...) - and nothing about Mayan Palace had anything to do with the DBC purchase.  When he really (supposedly) traded in was a HVC (of unknown value) to help pay for his 'bargain' at DBC and still never came close to revealing what he actually paid - other than some fuzzy description - and then had to add details about the DBC villa which has nothing to do with the question on what he paid (which was apparently some fraction of the cost of a summer week).

then... silence (big surprise).

So... I am calling BS on his whole story.  He is either delusional, a troll, a remote straw salesman, or seriously misguided individual.  But, bottom-line, we tried to help (as always) and were not rude - just honest and forth-coming.  The agitation meter turned-up when his BS began as apparently something underneath the surface was going on with his 'story'.
IMO


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## dice934

DavidnRobin said:


> siesta - nice post to jtf.  As you saw from the 1st post in this thread by jtf which apparently was just a brag on what a great deal he got at DBC (and looked like some strawman sales ploy...).
> 
> We were direct and honest, and told him his info was incorrect - that it was not in SVN, not part of SVO, and there was no other Westin TS club.  We were not rude, and merely trying to set him straight.  I even attempted to clarify to jtf what he owned (after a few minutes of research).  All he did was deny that we knew anything about what he bought (and was quite rude about it), and that he only gets bargain deals as he is a TS expert (since 1993 - wow! impressive).
> 
> If getting real information in a direct manner, and going against his pre-conceived notions is attacking - then we are guilty.  But clearly, if you read his very 1st TUG post where he bragged about how he manage to scam $$ from Mayan Palace TS fronts while on vacation in Mexico (who in their right mind spends their vacation - trying to dink money from these TS fronts?) - essentially showing the content of his true character.
> 
> Then when asked directly about what he paid for the great deal he got for DBC - he somehow managed to work in his property at Mayan Palace where he paid $7000 for a TS that is essentially worthless eventhough the current  'retail' price is $50000 (right... some incredible bargain hunter he is...) - and nothing about Mayan Palace had anything to do with the DBC purchase.  When he really (supposedly) traded in was a HVC (of unknown value) to help pay for his 'bargain' at DBC and still never came close to revealing what he actually paid - other than some fuzzy description - and then had to add details about the DBC villa which has nothing to do with the question on what he paid (which was apparently some fraction of the cost of a summer week).
> 
> then... silence (big surprise).
> 
> So... I am calling BS on his whole story.  He is either delusional, a troll, a remote straw salesman, or seriously misguided individual.  But, bottom-line, we tried to help (as always) and were not rude - just honest and forth-coming.  The agitation meter turned-up when his BS began as apparently something underneath the surface was going on with his 'story'.
> IMO



I Purchased a unit at the DBC this Feb and in no way did the sales rep ever try to mislead me into believing that it was part of the  Starwood Vacation Network, if fact they told me that if it was it would have to sell for a lot more.

I purchased one week every second year for $11000 cash. I also got a free week in the timeshare this year and a free week stay in the Hotel that I can use anytime in the next 3 years. I also had a resort credit of $200. The fees that the poster mention for maintenance is correct, as mine is $510 a year. I have the option of bring one year forward every year from the end of the 99 year timeshare. As long as I pay the maintenance fee. This is the best deal if you think about it....on the year that I have a week I bring one forward and for two week, i have paid only $1020.   On the year that I do not have a week I can bring a week forward and it costs me $1020 for that year for one week. 

If I had bought one week every year it would cost me $1020 a year for maintenance and I did not have the same option of bring a year forward.  So over a 3 year period I pay $2040 for 3 weeks. Were as if I had purchased one week each year I would have paid $2040.  The year you bring forward is from the back end. The contract also has a maximum amount that the fees can increase in a year to 7% as well as only 15% over the next 10 years that I had written in. So this will protect me as to costs. 

The units are fantastic as they sit now....3 bedrooms each with King Beds and large LCD TV in each room,and marble floors. 2 baths, laundry in suite. The Westin provides room cleaning and linens etc daily as well as room service..etc.

They give you a 3 year free membership into II as well. 

I just thought that an honest response would be appreciated. I know that I bought at the DBC and not at WBC.


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## LisaRex

> I have the option of bring one year forward every year from the end of the 99 year timeshare. As long as I pay the maintenance fee. This is the best deal if you think about it....on the year that I have a week I bring one forward and for two week, i have paid only $1020.   On the year that I do not have a week I can bring a week forward and it costs me $1020 for that year for one week.
> 
> If I had bought one week every year it would cost me $1020 a year for maintenance and I did not have the same option of bring a year forward.  So over a 3 year period I pay $2040 for 3 weeks. Were as if I had purchased one week each year I would have paid $2040.  The year you bring forward is from the back end.



I think you are misunderstanding what the "bring it forward" option is. 

First of all, this perk HAS to subject to availability because otherwise an EOY  owner would squeeze an annual owner out of his rightful week.  There are only x number of units, after all.  Now there may be plenty of excess inventory to exercise such a perk when the resort is in the early sales phase, but the more owners there are, the less likely that there will be inventory available for an EOY owner to pull 2 weeks off, especially consecutive weeks during prime season. 



> I have the option of bring one year forward every year from the end of the 99 year timeshare. As long as I pay the maintenance fee. This is the best deal if you think about it....on the year that I have a week I bring one forward and for two week, i have paid only $1020.



No, you will be paying the same right as an annual owner.  Let me put it in a real-life example in order to illustrate. 

Let's say you're an odd year owner, and your first official use year is 2015. In 2013 and 2014, you will be billed $510/year.  So by the time you use your week in 2015, you'll have paid $1020.  That's the same rate an annual owner pays for his week. 

Now, if you want to bring a week forward, you'll need to pay the MFs on that week.  The MFs are $1020.  So for two weeks in 2015, you'll have paid $510 + $510 + $1020 = $2040. 

If you want to "bring forward a week" in 2016, you'll pay $1020 for that week... plus you'll owe $510 toward your 2017 week.   And, of course, your bonus week is subject to availability.  

So EOY owners aren't coming out ahead.  They are paying the same rate as an annual owner.  And they may only be able to secure a "bring it forward" week during low season, where $1020/week may not be the bargain that it is during prime season.  (I also suspect that annual week owners are given the option to buy a "bonus week" for the cost of MFs.  Why not?  It's a great way to get rid of excess inventory.)

Besides, think about it. Why would they model a program to discourage people from buying every year?


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## dice934

LisaRex said:


> I think you are misunderstanding what the "bring it forward" option is.
> 
> First of all, this perk HAS to subject to availability because otherwise an EOY  owner would squeeze an annual owner out of his rightful week.  There are only x number of units, after all.  Now there may be plenty of excess inventory to exercise such a perk when the resort is in the early sales phase, but the more owners there are, the less likely that there will be inventory available for an EOY owner to pull 2 weeks off, especially consecutive weeks during prime season.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you will be paying the same right as an annual owner.  Let me put it in a real-life example in order to illustrate.
> 
> Let's say you're an odd year owner, and your first official use year is 2015. In 2013 and 2014, you will be billed $510/year.  So by the time you use your week in 2015, you'll have paid $1020.  That's the same rate an annual owner pays for his week.
> 
> Now, if you want to bring a week forward, you'll need to pay the MFs on that week.  The MFs are $1020.  So for two weeks in 2015, you'll have paid $510 + $510 + $1020 = $2040.
> 
> If you want to "bring forward a week" in 2016, you'll pay $1020 for that week... plus you'll owe $510 toward your 2017 week.   And, of course, your bonus week is subject to availability.
> 
> So EOY owners aren't coming out ahead.  They are paying the same rate as an annual owner.  And they may only be able to secure a "bring it forward" week during low season, where $1020/week may not be the bargain that it is during prime season.  (I also suspect that annual week owners are given the option to buy a "bonus week" for the cost of MFs.  Why not?  It's a great way to get rid of excess inventory.)
> 
> Besides, think about it. Why would they model a program to discourage people from buying every year?



I will use my real example. I start on 2014 as my first year....I pay $510 this year 2013 and $510 next year 2014 for a total of $1020 and I bring a year forward for $510, for a total of $1530 .....we already have a confirmed booking for two weeks in April 2014. This how it was explain to me. As my contract states that the Bring it forward year is off the back end and it would be year 99 that I have used for next year as my bring it forward. This effectively means that I have a 49 year contract when I do this, which is fine as it will not be a valuable resort at this point. 

Even if it was the example you used, I can come every year for $1020 in a 3 bedroom condo that goes for over $2500 a week in off season and $3500 a week in prime season. 

I have rented at other Island Timeshares for this amount for a 2 bedroom unit. I went around last year and talked to 5 different time share resorts and looked at all the units. I called the DBC resort in Dec and booked a week in Feb on the understanding that I would purchase a unit, I had done all the negotiations prior to me arriving there. I used one unit this year without the MF and no charge and my year starts next year. I am ahead of the game and happy. The way I look at this is that I save at least $1500 a year and have already saved $3510 (rent and $1020 Maintenance fee) and have a free week still in the hotel which I can use anytime for the next 3 years at a value of $1500-$2000 and the resort credit of $200 I received as well. This means that the net price I paid is $5300-$5800 for this unit.  Which means that this unit will pay for it self in 4 uses. That is value in my eyes.


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## LisaRex

dice934 said:


> I will use my real example. I start on 2014 as my first year....I pay $510 this year 2013 and $510 next year 2014 for a total of $1020 and *I bring a year forward for $510*, for a total of $1530 .....we already have a confirmed booking for two weeks in April 2014.



(Bolding mine)

By your own words: 

1) MFs for ONE USE WEEK are $1020.  

2) EOY owners pay one half of their MFs two years in a row.  $510 x 2 = $1020.  One week's use; one week's MFs.  Makes sense.

3) EOY owners are allowed to book a 2nd week, using a "bring a year forward" program.  The condition is that you have to pay the MFs. 

4) See #1.  The MFs are $1020, NOT $510. 

So to correct your real life example.  You will pay $510 x 2 for a total of $1020 for your use week of 2014. When you bring a year foward, you will be charged for its MFs, which are $1020, NOT $510.  Otherwise, the program would be called "bring a HALF year foward." 

But, please, don't take my word on it.  Call and inquire.


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## DavidnRobin

Dice - since you originally quoted my post - to fully understand the context of what was being stated here in response to jft - read from post #15 forward.

I hope you had time to look thru resale DBC weeks before you bought from the Developer.
(iirc - an every week resale is being sold for $5K) Often, when sales are new - there will not be a lot of resale and therefore resale prices tend to be higher (supply/demand).  However, after Developer sales have gone on for a while - the resales start showing up.  This will then become the Market price.  In most cases these resale prices tend to be <90% of Developer pricing (common).  Also, after sales have progressed for a while and resort gets close to being sold out - the MFs tend to increase rapidly (robbing Peter to pay Paul for those years of low MFs and sales incentives).  I hope this is not the case with DBC, but history is against it.  Just ask the 1000s here on TUG.

And (once again) - there is no such thing as Westin Dawn Beach TimeShares - so by logic one cannot buy from them since they do not exist (the point of our posts to jft who has convieniently disappeared). Apparently this was not jtf's experience when he came here to brag about his deal.

Enjoy your DBC week that you bought - but one thing is pretty much guaranteed based on years of TUG experience - you are not getting a bargain when buying from the Developer no matter how it is spun or justified.  But one thing is true - once bought - try and make the best out of your TS.


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## dice934

DavidnRobin said:


> Dice - since you originally quoted my post - to fully understand the context of what was being stated here in response to jft - read from post #15 forward.
> 
> I hope you had time to look thru resale DBC weeks before you bought from the Developer.
> (iirc - an every week resale is being sold for $5K) Often, when sales are new - there will not be a lot of resale and therefore resale prices tend to be higher (supply/demand).  However, after Developer sales have gone on for a while - the resales start showing up.  This will then become the Market price.  In most cases these resale prices tend to be <90% of Developer pricing (common).  Also, after sales have progressed for a while and resort gets close to being sold out - the MFs tend to increase rapidly (robbing Peter to pay Paul for those years of low MFs and sales incentives).  I hope this is not the case with DBC, but history is against it.  Just ask the 1000s here on TUG.
> 
> And (once again) - there is no such thing as Westin Dawn Beach TimeShares - so by logic one cannot buy from them since they do not exist (the point of our posts to jft who has convieniently disappeared). Apparently this was not jtf's experience when he came here to brag about his deal.
> 
> Enjoy your DBC week that you bought - but one thing is pretty much guaranteed based on years of TUG experience - you are not getting a bargain when buying from the Developer no matter how it is spun or justified.  But one thing is true - once bought - try and make the best out of your TS.



Thanks for your reply. 

I read all the posts that is why I quoted yours, just to give you the real goods from someone who bought from there. 

I have looked on line for a resale unit and I saw an ad for a one week each year unit for $5000, but when I tried to purchase it, it was really an ad for a rental.....or so that was what I was told? I'm happy with the TS I bought as I go there yearly and the value to me is the cost savings. I plan on buying another TS when they start to sell out from the resell market so that I can ensure that I can get two weeks at a time. 

Here is one for sale  $25000 http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshare/Westin+Dawn+Beach+Resort+and+Spa/resort/ 

The rest are rental ads from $2500 to $3000 a week.  

I'm sure that all units placed for sale are currently being bought by the DBC so as to protect their value....that will change I'm sure. I went into this with eyes wide open and I'm happy with what I purchased at the price that I did. 

This is a 3 bedroom unit we are talking about and that needs to be remembered, as that is what I need for my family. If I was looking for just my wife and I, it would not be at DBC as it would be too large and not required. The location of the resort was a major consideration as the beach is blocked on both sides by rocks and land and that suits me well. It is not a crowded beach front. The only real issue here is the lack of shade, they do not provide umbrellas for free but that was easily over come as I rented chairs and umbrellas from the Car rental place for $15 for the week.


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## DavidnRobin

dice934 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I read all the posts that is why I quoted yours, just to give you the real goods from someone who bought from there.
> 
> I have looked on line for a resale unit and I saw an ad for a one week each year unit for $5000, but when I tried to purchase it, it was really an ad for a rental.....or so that was what I was told? I'm happy with the TS I bought as I go there yearly and the value to me is the cost savings. I plan on buying another TS when they start to sell out from the resell market so that I can ensure that I can get two weeks at a time.
> 
> Here is one for sale  $25000 http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshare/Westin+Dawn+Beach+Resort+and+Spa/resort/
> 
> The rest are rental ads from $2500 to $3000 a week.
> 
> I'm sure that all units placed for sale are currently being bought by the DBC so as to protect their value....that will change I'm sure. I went into this with eyes wide open and I'm happy with what I purchased at the price that I did.
> 
> This is a 3 bedroom unit we are talking about and that needs to be remembered, as that is what I need for my family. If I was looking for just my wife and I, it would not be at DBC as it would be too large and not required. The location of the resort was a major consideration as the beach is blocked on both sides by rocks and land and that suits me well. It is not a crowded beach front. The only real issue here is the lack of shade, they do not provide umbrellas for free but that was easily over come as I rented chairs and umbrellas from the Car rental place for $15 for the week.



Thanks for the real info on buying from DBC (vs. the convoluted one from jtw), and good that you are aware of the pitfalls.

I thought all DBCs were 3 Bds.

The auction I was referring to was from CJ (common eBay seller) on eBay for $4.95K with annual fees of $992 (auction is over - zero bids) - so it sounds as if the MFs are close to what you stated for EOY (as there is usually a slight fee for EOY)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-BEDRO...Timeshares&hash=item5653c8d18e#ht_4177wt_1026

This appears to be an annual 3Bd at DBC (even though CJ claims Westin Dawn Beach and a Westin ROFR {arg} - it is not atypical for TS Brokers to have wrong info in their auction - probably came from Owners who thinks it is WDB) - regardless, zero bids at $5K for an EY DBC is a watch-out for an EOY being sold at $11K from DBC.

Good luck.


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## dice934

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for the real info on buying from DBC (vs. the convoluted one from jtw), and good that you are aware of the pitfalls.
> 
> I thought all DBCs were 3 Bds.
> 
> The auction I was referring to was from CJ (common eBay seller) on eBay for $4.95K with annual fees of $992 (auction is over - zero bids) - so it sounds as if the MFs are close to what you stated for EOY (as there is usually a slight fee for EOY)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-BEDRO...Timeshares&hash=item5653c8d18e#ht_4177wt_1026
> 
> This appears to be an annual 3Bd at DBC (even though CJ claims Westin Dawn Beach and a Westin ROFR {arg} - it is not atypical for TS Brokers to have wrong info in their auction - probably came from Owners who thinks it is WDB) - regardless, zero bids at $5K for an EY DBC is a watch-out for an EOY being sold at $11K from DBC.
> 
> Good luck.



David, 

like I stated above DBC buys up these as it affects sale prices, I tried to buy one this way.  *This auction is subject to Westin's Right of First Refusal.  If Westin exercises this right the buyer will receive a full refund.  *

They are currently exercising the option that the contract gives them.  

Like I stated I stayed at the unit this year which would have cost me $2500-$3000 as it was in Feb which is prime time, as well as I got a Westin hotel room for a week that can be used anytime which is a $2000 value if used in high season. Add that up along with the $200 dollar resort credit and this totals $4700 - $5200 so the net amount that I paid is $5700 -$6200 and when you consider I saved MF of $1020 if I had own the unit....it brings this down to $4700- $5200 for this purchase. 

You are correct that all units are 3 bedroom units and all with ocean front views. 

I do understand your view and rightfully so, but for me this was a no brainier as we were paying $2000 for a week the last 5 years for a place that could accommodate our family....without the services that this offers. 

I will be looking for a resale TS from this resort in the future when it is close to being sold out...and I would expect to pay as little as possible.


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## DavidnRobin

dice934 said:


> David,
> 
> like I stated above DBC buys up these as it affects sale prices, I tried to buy one this way.  *This auction is subject to Westin's Right of First Refusal.  If Westin exercises this right the buyer will receive a full refund.  *
> 
> They are currently exercising the option that the contract gives them.



You realize that this has nothing to do with Westin's ROFR - as it is not a Westin resort.

I (We) will have to take your word on DBC exercising their ROFR.  However, for other resorts (e.g. SVO/Westin) the ROFR is not usually performed while sales are active prior to the resort selling out.  It makes no sense to do so since DBC's object is to sale VOIs (TS weeks) and not to buy back just to have to sell them again.  The resale market is so sparse for DBC, and other unsuspecting dupes are not even aware of the resale market (something that SVO takes advantage of and they are huge compared to DBC) for it to even matter to them to keep the price high.  It just does not work that way unless there is no more inventory.

Also, no need to continue the justification of your great deal.  tbh, I highly doubt any Tugger will agree no matter how many numbers are put forth (except those who may have bought from DBC). No one is saying that it isn't a great resort - it sounds great.


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## SMHarman

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for the real info on buying from DBC (vs. the convoluted one from jtw), and good that you are aware of the pitfalls.
> 
> I thought all DBCs were 3 Bds.
> 
> The auction I was referring to was from CJ (common eBay seller) on eBay for $4.95K with annual fees of $992 (auction is over - zero bids) - so it sounds as if the MFs are close to what you stated for EOY (as there is usually a slight fee for EOY)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-BEDRO...Timeshares&hash=item5653c8d18e#ht_4177wt_1026
> 
> This appears to be an annual 3Bd at DBC (even though CJ claims Westin Dawn Beach and a Westin ROFR {arg} - it is not atypical for TS Brokers to have wrong info in their auction - probably came from Owners who thinks it is WDB) - regardless, zero bids at $5K for an EY DBC is a watch-out for an EOY being sold at $11K from DBC.
> 
> Good luck.


Relisted at 3k with a 6k BIN price.


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