# Diamond Resorts-to-Sunterra conversion



## winger

I just found out our Polo Towers fixed summer week is eligible for conversion to Sunterra points.  Is there more info here on TUG on the pros-and-cons of this conversion  ...   and how Suntera pts work


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## timeos2

*Depends on which Club Sunterra*

I have been in the Club Sunterra system since 1999 - the one where you keep your deed (very important IMHO) and simply give them your annual usage in return for an allotment of annual "options" (points).  At that time the cost was $1300 to join and the annual fee is now $149 - it has worked very well for us and the cost has been well worth it. 

Now what they seem to be pushing is the Club Sunterra Trust where you give up your deed and get a UDI or something in the US Resort Trust. It is more expensive (minimum of $2900 and I've heard numbers higher) I think and, although it has some nice features, I still prefer holding on to a deed and therefore having my home resort to pay the annual fee for and I still get to participate in voting, etc.  If you join the Trust the Trustee holds the deed and the votes while your fee is a "blend" of all the trust resorts, plus an administrative overhead, divided by the number of members. In theory you could save money doing that as an increase is spread over more buyers but in reality I think all the resorts are going to have higher fees and even special assessments (when was the last time costs/fees went down?) and with the admin fees you end up likely to pay more. 

The Trust does not appeal to me but, as I said, the deeded Club Sunterra has  been a good buy for us. The Club membership does NOT transfer on any sale so what I'd have to sell is my base week. I'm not at all clear what you get and or can sell if you buy into the trust.


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## pedro47

I think I asked this question a couple days ago would Polo Towers become a part of Club Sunterra?

The answer was no !


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## winger

pedro47 said:


> I think asked this question a couple days ago would Polo Towers become a part of Club Sunterra?
> 
> The answer was no !


I will be talking to a Polo rep next week or two about the 'conversion' and what it means to me, but I figured TUGGer's know more than they about Sunterra.  I was told however, I do get to keep my deed at Polo and pay it's annual membership but get an annual allotment of sunterra pts.  No more specifics than that, unfortunately.

How about sunterra pts and II, how does that work? Can I trade in my annual pts and get a Marriott exchange thru II (for example) ?  I know this is how it can work with Worldmark (sounds similar to sunterra)


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## Spence

winger said:


> I will be talking to a Polo rep next week or two about the 'conversion' and what it means to me, but I figured TUGGer's know more than they about Sunterra.  I was told however, I do get to keep my deed at Polo and pay it's annual membership but get an annual allotment of sunterra pts.  No more specifics than that, unfortunately.
> 
> How about sunterra pts and II, how does that work? Can I trade in my annual pts and get a Marriott exchange thru II (for example) ?  I know this is how it can work with Worldmark (sounds similar to sunterra)


Why don't you take a few minutes and read the SunOptions Directory and SunGlances Guide.  Links to them are in the 'sticky' in the top of this forum.  After you read them, then go to the Sunterra Forum linked below and read all those posts.  Then ask questions here or there.... and yes Sunterra points into II works almost exactly like WM, the required points are listed in the SunOptions Directory.


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## ouaifer

winger said:


> I just found out our Polo Towers fixed summer week is eligible for conversion to Sunterra points.  Is there more info here on TUG on the pros-and-cons of this conversion  ...   and how Suntera pts work



There's a ton of information about this, most recently, here.  Do a _Search_ from the banner above, and you will find many discussions on the subject.


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## Spence

winger said:


> I just found out our Polo Towers fixed summer week is eligible for conversion to Sunterra points.  Is there more info here on TUG on the pros-and-cons of this conversion  ...   and how Suntera pts work





ouaifer said:


> There's a ton of information about this, most recently, here.  Do a _Search_ from the banner above, and you will find many discussions on the subject.


Contrary to the poster above, there is not a ton of information on Polo Towers conversion, my memory often fails me, but you are the first to report definitively that you are being offered entry into Club Sunterra as a PT owner.


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## winger

Spence said:


> Contrary to the poster above, there is not a ton of information on Polo Towers conversion, my memory often fails me, but you are the first to report definitively that you are being offered entry into Club Sunterra as a PT owner.


I will report back Wed or Thurs night after I get the 'scoop'.

What's the difference between sunoption and sunglance? I did see the sticky but was didn't want to look when I was not ever sure what they are

I was not offered but was told I am eligible when the topic of the diamond resorts-sunterra buyout was discussed.


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## PeelBoy

winger said:


> I will be talking to a Polo rep next week or two about the 'conversion' and what it means to me, but I figured TUGGer's know more than they about Sunterra.  I was told however, I do get to keep my deed at Polo and pay it's annual membership but get an annual allotment of sunterra pts.  No more specifics than that, unfortunately.
> 
> How about sunterra pts and II, how does that work? Can I trade in my annual pts and get a Marriott exchange thru II (for example) ?  I know this is how it can work with Worldmark (sounds similar to sunterra)





I have gone to Marriott via II more often than to Sunterra resort.  It is easy. You have an II account, search Marriott online and book it or place an ongoing search.

The points required are 6500 for 2 bedrooms, 5000 for 1, and 3500 for a studio.  Cheaper for off season. 50% discount within 59 days window.

Some Marriotts are difficult to find in peak peak peak season, e.g. Newport in July.  Ongoing search is the way to go.  If you can go when kids are at school, you won't have any problem.


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## winger

PeelBoy said:


> I have gone to Marriott via II more often than to Sunterra resort.  It is easy. You have an II account, search Marriott online and book it or place an ongoing search.
> 
> The points required are 6500 for 2 bedrooms, 5000 for 1, and 3500 for a studio.  Cheaper for off season. 50% discount within 59 days window.
> 
> Some Marriotts are difficult to find in peak peak peak season, e.g. Newport in July.  Ongoing search is the way to go.  If you can go when kids are at school, you won't have any problem.


thanks for the info.

Is the point requirement written somewhere on the II booklet/catalog?

Is the only cost of joining Sunterra the $151/yr?

One issue I see in my case if we were officially given the choice to convert is we have prepaid our II dues until 2016.  Since the $151/yr S fee includes II fee, we are effectively double paying II annual dues, at least until 2016, unless II refunds us or Sunterra gives a partial membership discount thru 2016.


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## timeos2

*A corporate II account is gold*



winger said:


> thanks for the info.
> 
> Is the point requirement written somewhere on the II booklet/catalog?
> 
> Is the only cost of joining Sunterra the $151/yr?
> 
> One issue I see in my case if we were officially given the choice to convert is we have prepaid our II dues until 2016.  Since the $151/yr S fee includes II fee, we are effectively double paying II annual dues, at least until 2016, unless II refunds us or Sunterra gives a partial membership discount thru 2016.



The II account through club is a "corporate" account - you cannot use it with other resorts. At first I thought it was a problem but, like the others above, I now realize the heavy priority that these corporate memberships get vs the standard week owner makes II a different system. It's unbelievable.  I'd never use II as a mere member again.  It was an unexpected but very pleasant bonus to the Club Sunterra membership.

The cost per year is the annual fee ($150) but getting your time into Club will cost some $$$.


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## Spence

winger said:


> Is the point requirement written somewhere on the II booklet/catalog?


Hint:  Read the SunOptions Directory and SunGlances Guide.


winger said:


> Is the only cost of joining Sunterra the $151/yr?


That's the annual cost not the cost to join.  You're going to have to tell us what their offer is to  you.  If you read the forum I pointed you to you'd know what the cost to join has recently been.


winger said:


> One issue I see in my case if we were officially given the choice to convert is we have prepaid our II dues until 2016.  Since the $151/yr S fee includes II fee, we are effectively double paying II annual dues, at least until 2016, unless II refunds us or Sunterra gives a partial membership discount thru 2016.


If PT is/was your only TS then you can close you personal II account when you use up any deposits and get them to refund the fees for that account.  BUT it looks like you have Marriott also so you'll have to keep both accounts as you can't deposit Marriott into your ClubSunterra II acct.


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## Spence

winger said:


> I will report back Wed or Thurs night after I get the 'scoop'.


We look forward to it.


winger said:


> What's the difference between sunoption and sunglance? I did see the sticky but was didn't want to look when I was not ever sure what they are


You've been provided the links.


winger said:


> I was not offered but was told I am eligible when the topic of the diamond resorts-sunterra buyout was discussed.


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## winger

LOL guess I'll have some reading to do on the plane Saturday !


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## winger

timeos2 said:


> I have been in the Club Sunterra system since 1999 - the one where you keep your deed (very important IMHO) and simply give them your annual usage in return for an allotment of annual "options" (points).  At that time the cost was $1300 to join and the annual fee is now $149 - it has worked very well for us and the cost has been well worth it.
> 
> Now what they seem to be pushing is the Club Sunterra Trust where you give up your deed and get a UDI or something in the US Resort Trust....



From what I gathered from a 10 min convo w/ the rep I am meeting soon, I keep my deed and keep paying my annual MF to Polo as I have been doing for the past 10 yrs... Again, I will report back next week once I find out what the offer is.


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## fnewman

winger said:


> Can I trade in my annual pts and get a Marriott exchange thru II (for example) ?  I know this is how it can work with Worldmark (sounds similar to sunterra)


As mentioned elsewhere, we probably trade for Mariott as often as Sunterra in any given year.  Unless at peak season, the availability is very good and the number of SunOptions required is very reasonable - sometimes unbelievably low.


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## fnewman

I will be very surprised is they let Polo owners join Club Sunterra without any fee whatsoever, but I suppose it could happen.  That would be quite a nice benefit.  Can't wait to hear the offer !!


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## winger

timeos2 said:


> The II account through club is a "corporate" account - you cannot use it with other resorts. At first I thought it was a problem but, like the others above, I now realize the heavy priority that these corporate memberships get vs the standard week owner makes II a different system. It's unbelievable.  I'd never use II as a mere member again.  It was an unexpected but very pleasant bonus to the Club Sunterra membership.
> 
> The cost per year is the annual fee ($150) but getting your time into Club will cost some $$$.


I spoke to the rep on site this morning, we are still shooting on meeting Wed ... he mentions having a Sunterra person sit w/ us since he is not too familiar w Sunterra.  He did allude to 'taking the money I put into Polo Towers for a minimal upgrade fee to Sunterra...'  I responded by saying I was really looking for a free conversion.  I said this to set his expectations !

Anyway, so if they offer me conversion where I keep the deed, is this still a "corporate Sunterra membership" ?  Are there different types of Sunterra memberships, is my question I guess. I would love to have increased trading power, given we now have a fixed summer week at Polo !


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## winger

fnewman said:


> As mentioned elsewhere, we probably trade for Mariott as often as Sunterra in any given year.  Unless at peak season, the availability is very good and the number of SunOptions required is very reasonable - sometimes unbelievably low.


If peelboy's #'s above are correct:

The points required are 6500 for 2 bedrooms, 5000 for 1, and 3500 for a studio. Cheaper for off season. 50% discount within 59 days window.

I guess this is good, depending on how many points I will get for 'converting' my 1BD week 31 PLT.

BTW, the rep did tell me initial estimates that out of the 14k PLT owners, they are only allowing about 500 Sunterra conversions.  Depending on what the deal/package is (I'll find out Wed or maybe thurs?), if anyone is interested, I guess shoot me a PM and I'll give your name to the guy.  According to this thread and what the rep told me, I maybe among the first to get the low-down on this one!   Who knows, it could also be a weasel's sales pitch LOL which would not surprise me either.


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## Bill4728

winger said:


> BTW, the rep did tell me initial estimates that out of the 14k PLT owners, they are only allowing about 500 Sunterra conversions.
> 
> ....  Who knows, it could also be a weasel's sales pitch LOL which would not surprise me either.



I'd put my money on this is the weasel's sales pitch.

" we'll only allow 500 PLT owners convert."  Yeah right!! :hysterical:


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## Spence

Pg10 of the SunOPtions Guide.[QUOTE=winger;347266]If peelboy's #'s above are correct:

The points required are 6500 for 2 bedrooms, 5000 for 1, and 3500 for a studio. Cheaper for off season. 50% discount within 59 days window.

I guess this is good, depending on how many points I will get for 'converting' my 1BD week 31 PLT.

BTW, the rep did tell me initial estimates that out of the 14k PLT owners, they are only allowing about 500 Sunterra conversions. Depending on what the deal/package is (I'll find out Wed or maybe thurs?), if anyone is interested, I guess shoot me a PM and I'll give your name to the guy. According to this thread and what the rep told me, I maybe among the first to get the low-down on this one! Who knows, it could also be a weasel's sales pitch LOL which would not surprise me either.[/QUOTE]What a bunch of malarkey  :hysterical:


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## winger

Spence said:


> Pg10 of the SunOPtions Guide.QUOTE=winger;347266]If peelboy's #'s above are correct:
> 
> The points required are 6500 for 2 bedrooms, 5000 for 1, and 3500 for a studio. Cheaper for off season. 50% discount within 59 days window.



I see the points required for sunterra to sunterra reseservations, but where can I tell what what an II resort is rated at (e.g. Select, Moderate, Premium, and  Low, Med, High) ?  For example, Marriott's Timberlodge, weeks 24-33


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## PeelBoy

Winger, Spence will give you an answer.  I never read fine prints.

My knowledge of point requirement is from browsing availability online as a hobby.  

Usually, brand names are premium.  No names (very few) are select.  Majority are moderate.

For season, temperate dictates everything.  For a ski resort, winter is prime, summer is high and the shoulders are shoulders. For a beach resort, summer is high and winter is low.  Of course, the islands are different.

You can go through the II book to identify their season.  I don't have no time for that.


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## dougp26364

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. I've exchanged E-mails with Troy Magdos about this and he's always stated that there would be "no merger." Of course, the information coming out on TUG indicates he either didn't know or he's not necessarily the most honest person in the world. 

On the other hand, PT's hasn't had it's own sales force for sometime. They became employee's of Marriott with the partnership (Hard Copy I think it's called). I'm sure they may have kept one or two on the payroll but I'm pretty certain they won't have a full sales staff unless they're rehiring them and, that'a always a possiblity. 

On the other hand, when we were at a Sunterra resort we were offered a  package of points that would give us the right to convert other resorts we owned into Sunterra points. There was no changing of title and no upgrade to a different title, just purchasing a points package from Sunterra to become a Sunterra owner. Sunterra would then give me the option to pay a fee to convert my other resorts into Sunterra's points on an "as needed" basis.

Sounds like DRI is going to start using Polo Towers owners as a list of people to trick into a Sunterra sales presentation without having to involve the gifting department to me. I'm anxious to see if they're just trying to sell you a Sunterra ownership to go with your exisiting PT's ownership (sell you an additional week) rather than convert your PT's week and leave you owning just one week, the original PT's week converted into the Sunterra system for a fee.


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## winger

Here are the offer the way I understand it (#'s rounded off) :

First, background info - I own a one bdrm, fixed red season week Polo Tower Suites. Annual MF = $480

option 1) convert my one week to 9000 annual Sun Options (points). Cost = $3000. Keep my existing Suites deed.  Basically, giving Sunterra right-to-use of my Suites.  What happens here is a one bdrm Suites week converts to 9000 annual Sun Options. If I ever wanted to reserve a one bdrm Polo Suites, it costs me 9000 Sun Options.

option 2) upgrade my onr bdrm Suites week  to  a one bdrm Villas week.  Convert the new one bdrm Villas week to 10,500 annual Sun Options (points). Cost = $4000. Keep my new Suites deed. Annual MF increases to = $560 (Villas' MF cost more than Suites').  Basically, giving Sunterra right-to-use of my new Villa.  What happens here is a one bdrm Villa week converts to 10500 annual Sun Options.  If I ever wanted to reserve a one bdrm Polo Villa, it costs me 10500 Sun Options.

There are increasing Sun Options (pts) packages, but of course with increased cost.

Rescind period is one yr, to get out of the Sun Options and get my fixed week back.

The 'membership' is perpetual in the sense I can hand down to heirs (like in my family Trust), but cannot be sold by me to anyone else.

They are supposedly starting to call polo owners from now through Sept 1 (estimate) to give them this offer.  It is open for 24 hrs after the offer is made.  This point I do not understand, after the 24 hr, if anyone wants to buy the 10500 membership, it costs $3000 + $4000 = $7000 upfront.

So, how does this sound ?  The question is it worth to purchase a 9000 annual Sun Options membership for $3000  or  10500 annual Sun Options membership for $4000.

We like the flexibility of points  and  getting the II Corporate Suntera membership if it means higher trading power.


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## dougp26364

Interesting. Just a month or two ago I was told that this was not going to happen and looky what's happening. Always good to know that PT's BOD/HOA has it all together isn't it. Welcome to our world Sunterra owners. DRI and they're great communication is now your management company as well. 

Somehow I just knew the DRI was going to try to bleed PT's owners for more money out of this. IMO, it's not worth it. I've never had an issue exchaning my PT's units for Sunterra units going through I.I.

The one thing to keep in mind is that it can take a fixed week unit in the Suites and essentially turn it into a floating week. You should be able to book back into PT's using your Sunterra points for any week that's availalbe. 

For us that's not such a good deal. I bought a unit that was location specific in the Suites. That being an 18th floor Skyview unit facing the strip. I don't think I want to give up that specific location now that something has finally been done with the HI Boardwalk and something far more interesting is being built on that lot. 

Man I really wish I had saved that E-mail from Troy. I'd enjoy asking him that same question again but I bet I wouldn't get any sort of responce this time around.


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## winger

dougp26364 said:


> Interesting. Just a month or two ago I was told that this was not going to happen and looky what's happening. Always good to know that PT's BOD/HOA has it all together isn't it. Welcome to our world Sunterra owners. DRI and they're great communication is now your management company as well.


 Yep, all these yrs I've own (maybe 10?), PLT has not been too steller with communications. 



> Somehow I just knew the DRI was going to try to bleed PT's owners for more money out of this. IMO, it's not worth it. I've never had an issue exchaning my PT's units for Sunterra units going through I.I.


My intent if to convert is not to necessarily get into Sunterra units, but the fact II Sunterra membership seems to have greater trading power over basic II membership (see posts on page one).



> The one thing to keep in mind is that it can take a fixed week unit in the Suites and essentially turn it into a floating week. You should be able to book back into PT's using your Sunterra points for any week that's availalbe.


 Yes, to get back into our 'home' resort Polo, we have the 12 mo Sunterra advantage. The one thing we like is the point system. We have even been contemplating selling our Polo and eventually possibly picking up a Worldmark membership...



> For us that's not such a good deal. I bought a unit that was location specific in the Suites. That being an 18th floor Skyview unit facing the strip. I don't think I want to give up that specific location now that something has finally been done with the HI Boardwalk and something far more interesting is being built on that lot.


 yep, that would DEFINTELY be on consideration - in your case, the City Center project will be an awesome sight when done in 2009(?). On our side, we don't really like coming to Vegas, not much to do for the kids and we don't gamble and summers (our week) is little too hot hot hot for us. Our tower 2 has a decent view, but not like if you are facing the actual strip. We have been exchanging for about 10 yrs now w/ our Polo and will continue to do so if we keep it.  Thus, if converting into a floating week resulting in losing our fixed week and unit is immaterial.

I am going to have to dig around a little more to see how much Sunterra memberships really cost on the resale market :rofl:


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## dougp26364

OK, maybe I shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. In reading the Sun Options book there are some possibilities here. Of course there are questions that go along with the possibilities.

I'll have to look the Sun Options book over very carefully and then listen to what DRI is offering and what their taking before coming to a final conclusion as to whether it's better to stand pat or make a change. I've not been pleased with DRI in the past and I question if I would just be throwing good money after bad by giving them even more money for something I already own. 

Winger, 

What specific week do you own? There are different point requirements for different weeks. I wonder if all 1 bedroom suites weeks will be offered only 9,000 points or will owners that own weeks in different demand periods (according to the Sun Options chart) be offered more or less depending on if they own a mid season, high season or peak season.

The old Epic Desert Paradise takes 8,500 points for a one bedroom week in high season. Desert Paradise is not a five star resort and is not on the strip. It would be disappointing if a PT's peak season week only received 500 more points than Desert Paradise.


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## winger

dougp26364 said:


> ...
> 
> Winger,
> 
> What specific week do you own? There are different point requirements for different weeks. I wonder if all 1 bedroom suites weeks will be offered only 9,000 points or will owners that own weeks in different demand periods (according to the Sun Options chart) be offered more or less depending on if they own a mid season, high season or peak season.
> 
> The old Epic Desert Paradise takes 8,500 points for a one bedroom week in high season. Desert Paradise is not a five star resort and is not on the strip. It would be disappointing if a PT's peak season week only received 500 more points than Desert Paradise.


I could be wrong but I think all Polo Suites 1 BD peak are 9000. 1BD Villas Peaks are 10500.  I believe Peak-Peak (like new yrs) are a little more for both.  I wished I made a xerox copy of that points/sun options page


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## PeelBoy

There are advantages of joining Sunterra:

1. Access to their European resorts without exchange fees, if Europe is on your radar.

2. Less SunOptions to trade via II.  Your PT week trades for a week via II, but you can stretch your SunOptions to one and a half to three or four weeks, depending on your skills manipulating these points.

3. No fee to book into any Sunterra resorts.

4. Corporate accounts have heavy priority, so you will see more availability with II.

The key is the conversion fee.  If it costs you $2995 or $5000 for 2000 points plus conversion, forget it.  With that kind of money, I can keep shopping at ebay to enrich my portfolio.


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## dougp26364

PeelBoy said:


> The key is the conversion fee.  If it costs you $2995 or $5000 for 2000 points plus conversion, forget it.  With that kind of money, I can keep shopping at ebay to enrich my portfolio.



Can you buy Sun Options resale on E-bay if you don't already have a Sun Options account? I thought Sunterra had put a stop to that, allowing the resale buyer to buy the week but not the Sun Options points package forcing them to either buy more points from the developer or pay a conversion fee.


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## winger

PeelBoy said:


> There are advantages of joining Sunterra:
> 
> 1. Access to their European resorts without exchange fees, if Europe is on your radar.
> 
> ...
> 
> The key is the conversion fee.  If it costs you $2995 or $5000 for 2000 points plus conversion, forget it.  With that kind of money, I can keep shopping at ebay to enrich my portfolio.


Good four pts, peelboy, which is my interest in the conversion.

In your last point "_The key is the conversion fee.  If it costs you $2995 or $5000 for 2000 points plus conversion, forget it.  With that kind of money, I can keep shopping at ebay to enrich my portfolio_" please clarify what I can that maybe better off economically - remember that I am NOT currently part of Sunterra, which is the reason I am contemplating converting.  I rarely come to Vegas and same for the future. Purchased mainly to exchange.

I tried looking on eBay but am getting confused w/ the seemly large variety of choices out there. Some are deeded, some not, some included just a few resorts, some not, etc... 


To clarify the offer I was given...the entire out of pocket costs are:
- to convert to 9000 sun optionsis *$3000 *(yes, it is $2995, but I am rounding the $ up)
- to convert to 10500 sun optionsis *$4000 *(this $ is also rounded up, and includes a Suites-to-Villa upgrade, which really does not matter to me since it turns into a floating week...but when I pass the deed onto my heirs, they get a different unit than what I already own)


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## PeelBoy

Go to Timeshareforum - Sunterra page.  Spence has provided excellent explanation of all Sunterra products and their pros and cons.

You will get advantages (2), (3) and (4), buying resale trust sunoptions.  You can exchange to Sunterra's European resorts only if you are a full member, so you have to spend $2995.

In my humble opinion, if you are not a Sunterra member, the best bet is to purchase resale sunoptions to trade within the 19 resorts or via II, and forget their European affilitation.

For $3000, you can buy from ebay 6500 to 10000 points.  A few others and myself are bidding on ebay regularly, so there is competition.  I always bid $1000 for 6500 points. If I get it, great.  If I don't, I would wait for another bus to come.


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## dougp26364

I've thought about this a good portion of the last night and this morning. For us, I think we'll just sit tight with what we have. I've been reasonably successful with our exchanges, I'm not overly thrilled with the quality of the Sunterra resorts we've seen and prefer to trade into different systems and the domestic exchange fee for I.I. is less than the $151/year club fee's Sunterra charges. 

At the present time I've pretty much recieved what I require in exchanges using my PT's weeks and then some on occasion. A few years ago I would spilt my 2 bedroom unit and almost always could get a one 1 bedroom for the studio (2 bedroom units in overbuilt areas sometimes, esp. in shoulder season when we like to travel) and a 2 bedroom unit for our 1 bedroom deposit. Throw in the AC's that I have to let co-workers use because I own more than enough and I think I have all I really need without spending another $2,995. Maybe if the fee was considerably less (<$1,000) I might give it more consideration but to toss another 3G into something I already own and do well with seems foolish to me.

If I were more impressed with the Sunterra resorts I've seen or stayed at I might be more inclined to lean towards the conversion. However, I'd rather attempt to trade into resorts we like better. I can do that as I stand now without having to pay an additional $151 to Sunterra.

The final straw for me is my lack of faith in DRI. Sure they say they're going to upgrade some of the Sunterra resorts and it's been reported that they've already stopped taking reservations at one resort that does not meet their "high" stanadards but, I've seen DRI make promises before and have difficulty delivering on them.

When we purchased our Skyview unit, we were promised I.I. certificates that would act as an exchange unit until the Skyview units were complete. It took two years longer to actually complete those units and we only recieved that promised certificate for the one year. After complaints they gave owners an unused week from their inventory (probably developer weeks) to use in exchange but it took complaining to get it done. 

The last SA to convert the tennis courts to the childrens water park took longer than what they promised (they were asking for the renovation SA before work started on the fist SA). The current construction from this last SA for unit renovations was supposed to start last March and be completed in 18 months. It hasn't started yet and now they're telling people that it won't be various owners.

Distrust and not enough value for our needs is what will keep me from converting my weeks. That doesn't mean that it's not right for everyone, just that it doesn't appear to fit our plans at the moment.


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## winger

*couple of updates*

With the conversion membership:

Both for the sunterra options and membership (the $2995 or whatever the conversion fee is) 'entrance fee' is transferable at no cost - meaning heirs do NOT have to re-pay to continue enjoying sunterra.   In the CC&Rs for Sunterra, Page 20, Article 9.1 it mentions a person may transfer to his heirs at no charge.  The only charge maybe cost in transferring the deed.

The deed can be decoupled from Sunterra at anytime - but you'll lose the upfront conversion fee.  No cost to decouple.

The points listed in the current SunOptions Booklet to exchange into II resorts are fixed; BUT if II decides to increase SunOption requirements to exchange at their resorts, then Sunterra will 'credit' your annual SunOption allotment for II-requested exchanges to make up in full for the increase.   - I am trying to get this in writing...

You lose your current 60 up-to-days upon check-in guarantee of getting our week at Polo if we convert to Sunterra?   But the advantage is you will now be able to make reservations at Polo 12 months in advance thru Sunterra with the Home Resort Advantage (instead of pre-conversion 60 days).

For internal (Sunterra, Polo) exchanges, there are NO nominal fee in addition to the $151 annual sunterra membership.

We can purchase sunoptions from private individuals or Sunterra for one time use (meaning NOT to add to your annual sunoption pts) if we are short of points for a trip.  But details are scratchy as Sunterra are working out the rules now - est time is less than one month before rules (including cost if purchased from Sunterra) on this are set.  I got this from a sunterra rep on site helping w/ the merger process.


----------



## winger

We have given this some thought and may acutally end up converting our Polo week to 9000 annual Sunterra pts/sunoptions. for $3000 b/c of our currrent travel needs (we are keeping our deed, of course).  

Two questi0ns:

1) The rep now says we canNOT add annual sunoptions to the acct unless it is directly from Sunterra, both for one-time purchases (if I am short some pts for a trip) AND for increasing my annual allotment (I think this is considered buying another member's contract???). 

Anyways, is there something specific in the contract/purchase agreement I need to look for that states this?

2) Is it legally binding for an officer of Sunterra/Diamond resorts to add an addendum letter to the contract for items specific to our purhase?  For example, right for us to use our specific polo suites or villa week if we give Sunterra 12 month notice (basically, not giving Sunterra our rights to use for that one year) ?

Thanks.


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## Suzy

How much is the conversion fee to convert 2 Polo Towers two-bedroom units, a 1-br ocean view at Kaanapali Beach Club, and a 2-bedroom unit at the Plantation Resort in Branson?  Is it cheaper to have a couple of units converted all at the same time?  

Suzy


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## winger

Suzy said:


> How much is the conversion fee to convert 2 Polo Towers two-bedroom units, a 1-br ocean view at Kaanapali Beach Club, and a 2-bedroom unit at the Plantation Resort in Branson?  Is it cheaper to have a couple of units converted all at the same time?
> 
> Suzy


Not sure... but to upgrade-then-convert my 1bd to 2bd suite then to Sunterra costs $7100 for 12000 sunoptions. If you want the rep's name and #, pm me and you can call for info this yourself.

Suzy, maybe she was incorrect, but my friend owned embassy/Kaanapali Beach Club before the sunterra takeover recently, and they offered her a $0/free conversion from float week (EOY) to sunterra pts.  Can you check if this is still the case w/ your Kaanapali BC resort?


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## Paul.In.Alaska

winger said:
			
		

> .
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1) The rep now says we canNOT add annual sunoptions to the acct unless it is directly from Sunterra, both for one-time purchases (if I am short some pts for a trip) AND for increasing my annual allotment (I think this is considered buying another member's contract???).
> 
> Anyways, is there something specific in the contract/purchase agreement I need to look for that states this?


 A bit of information I have worked with as a Sunterra member with SunOptions (points)... You can borrow up to the yearly amount of Sunoptions you have purchased from Sunterra or thfough a conversion such as you have done. I am sure you can always increase your points - they always want the money - by puchasing more time (points/ SunOptions) at a Sunterra Resort.

A side point... I have purchased "SunOptions" for Sunterra Resorts both as a deed and as a part of the Florida Trust (UDI). I could only use the points at the resort they were assigned to even as a member of the Club Sunterra. The Club is a part of Sunterra that allows the use of the points at the 100 or so resorts they own or have a part ownership in. To get these new eBay purchases into the Club to allow use of the points in all the Sunterra inventory requires some talking and paying the $2995. I did get around it a bit, however. I used some of my SunOptions I had as a Club member to schedule a stay at Lake Tahoe and attended one of there sales pitches. I stated I would purchase 5,000 more SunOptions at Lake Tahoe if and only if they would add all the additional points I had purchased on eBay to the Club membership. They did and I was happy with the transaction.



			
				winger said:
			
		

> 2) Is it legally binding for an officer of Sunterra/Diamond resorts to add an addendum letter to the contract for items specific to our purhase?  For example, right for us to use our specific polo suites or villa week if we give Sunterra 12 month notice (basically, not giving Sunterra our rights to use for that one year) ?


 The legal part I am not to sure of. What I can tell you is by converting the specific unit, you loss the ability to get back into that unit unless it is vacant when you check in, not when you make the reservation even if it is a year out. You probably will have priority over others in the Club and other users. Generally owners are given 13 months rather than 12 months to make the reservations.

So far I have been pleased with Sunterra. However, I have read on this forum that Sunterra/Diamond is selling or trying to divest themselves of Europe and some other resorts outside the USA. Too bad as I was planning on a trip to St. Martin

Good Luck


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## winger

PeelBoy said:


> ...
> 
> For $3000, you can buy from ebay 6500 to 10000 points.  A few others and myself are bidding on ebay regularly, so there is competition.  I always bid $1000 for 6500 points. If I get it, great.  If I don't, I would wait for another bus to come.


 What type of pts/sunoptions are you bidding on for say $1000 for 6500 pts?  And do you plan on folding these into your club membership by paying ClubSunterra some money (like $5000 for 2000 Trust pts) at a future date?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Paul.In.Alaska said:


> …What I can tell you is by converting the specific unit, you loss the ability to get back into that unit unless it is vacant when you check in, not when you make the reservation even if it is a year out. You probably will have priority over others in the Club and other users. Generally owners are given 13 months rather than 12 months to make the reservations.
> 
> …



This depends on the means by which the connection to Club Sunterra is accomplished.  A deeded property can get connected to the Club in one of two ways:

The deed is assigned to the appropriate Sunterra trust.  In this case, the owner transfer full ownership of the deed to the trust in exchange for an undivided interest in that trust.  

The deed is affiliated with Club Sunterra.  In this case the owner retains the deed, but relinquishes their usage rights under the deed to Club Sunterra for as long as the affiliation agreement remains in effect.

Some of the differences among these:

Trust owners are allowed to make reservations at all resorts that are part of that trust 13 months in advance. That is their Home Resort Advantage, and since they are owners in the trust, their Home Resort becomes all resorts in that Trust.  That 13-month window is available only to Trust owners, so Club affiliated owners only have their ordinary 12-month reservation window.
Conversion to the trust is permanent.  Once converted, the owner cannot get the deed back. Affiliation with the Club, in contrast, can be terminated anytime.  Since the owner never gave up the deed, the owner still has the deed and everything returns to the same situation that things were before the affiliation deal.  The affiliation fee, of course, is non-refundable.

For both types of ownerships, access to the larger Club Sunterra occurs by affiliating the ownership with Club Sunterra.  It is this affiliation which can only be transferred to family owners, regardless of whether the underlying ownership is deeded or a trust UDI.  When the affiliation is terminated, what remains is the underlying ownership - a deed if the property is still deeded or a trust UDI if the property was convereted (or the original purchase was a trust UDI).

HTH!


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## winger

*UDI?*

thanks for the clear explanation.  what is a UDI?  it sounds it is really more like a deed and affiliation relationship than a straight trust membership, correct?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

winger said:


> thanks for the clear explanation.  what is a UDI?  it sounds it is really more like a deed and affiliation relationship than a straight trust membership, correct?


UDI = *u*n*d*ivided *i*nterest. It means that the interest you own in the trust cannot be divided from the interest of other owners.  

The fact that the interest is undivided means that if the trust were to dissolve for any reason, you have no claim to get back the deed that you contributed - if you could get your deed back your interest in the trust would be a divided interest.

An analogy is with a marriage in which all property owned by the partners before the marriage becomes common property after the marriage.  After the marriage each partner has an undivided interest - if one of the parties they can't simply reclaim the property they contributed before the marriage - it can only be separated via a separate legal agreement.

Some other things to be aware of with a UDI:

You no longer pay annual fees based on the fees of the resort at which you held your deed.  Since the trust now holds a portfolio of deeds, the trust is responsible for those annual fees, and each owner then pays a fraction of those fees based on the size of their UDI, plus a contribution to the operating expenses of the trust.  E.g, if your UDI constitutes a 0.01% interest in the trust, you would be responsible for 0.01% of the total resort fees paid by the trust plus 0.01% of the trust operating expense.
If your resort has high annual fees, your annual fees after conversion could go down.  Conversely, if your resort has low annual fees, your annual fees could go up after conversion.
The trust could actually sell the deed you converted and your ownership with the trust would be unaffected.  The trust could even sell all of the deeds associated with a resort - thus effectively severing the ties with the resort - and all trust members who joined through that resort would still stay with the trust.  The only effect on trust members would be the ability to reserve at the resort.  Note, though, that the trust by-laws would likely limit or prohibit the ability of the trust to sell deeds in the trust.
You no longer have voting rights for the Directors for your resort. Since the Trust now holds the deeds, the Trust has the voting power.
Many of us believe that the last item in the list - the transfer of voting power from owners to the Trust - is one of Sunterra's prime reasons for pushing the trust.  Although for fiduciary reasons the Trustee is not part of Sunterra, Sunterra is certainly going to make certain that whomever is named as the Trustee is going to be friendly to Sunterra, and the Trust by-laws and governing documents will limit the ability of Trust owners to select a new Trustee.  Further, since the Trustee collects a fee reflecting the size of the assets under management, the Trustee has an interest in making the Trust friendly for Sunterra to continue to sell.

Put that together and it's easy to see that the Trust is a way for Sunterra to ensure continuing control of the Boards of Directors at resorts long after all of the inventory at the resort may have been sold.  The Trustee is almost certainly going to vote the Trust shares as a bloc in accordance with whatever Sunterra recommends.  Given how few owners actually return proxies, a voting bloc that represents as little as 10% of owners is probably sufficient to guarantee full control of a resort.


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## bruwery

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the Sunterra system basically works like this:

Sunterra:  Hi, we'll give you show tickets to sit through a 90 minute presentation.

Buyer: Okay.

Sunterra:  Blah, blah, blah, give us $15,000, and you'll own a vacation property that you can exchange into any of several thousand resorts and travel all over the world.  If you don't give us $15,000, your kids will hate you and probably try to kill you in your sleep.

Buyer:  Okay.  Sounds good.  (Forks over $15k.)

_Two years later_:

Sunterra: You timeshare isn't very flexible.  Give us another $3,000, AND the deed to your property, and you'll be able to reserve a week at any of the several dozen resorts within our system.

Buyer: Umm, I already paid $15k to allow me access to thousands of resorts.  Why pay another $3k to give you back my deed, and allow me access to several dozen resorts?

Sunterra: Well, we've made our system intentionally confusing, unnecessarily complicated, and created very little helpful documentation so that you'll be too busy trying to understand the system to worry about whether or not the investment actually makes any sense.

Buyer: Oh, okay.  Sounds good. (Forks over $3k.)

So, the developer is essentially selling people the same timeshare twice?  Not only that, but with the second "purchase", you lose the deed to your initial purchase, and you can't transfer your "second purchase" to a new owner.  Your nominal resale value has now become exactly zero.

Ye Gods.  Sunterra apparently has some VERY GOOD sales weasels.


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## Bill4728

bruwery said:
			
		

> So, the developer is essentially selling people the same timeshare twice? Not only that, but with the second "purchase", you lose the deed to your initial purchase, and you can't transfer your "second purchase" to a new owner. Your nominal resale value has now become exactly zero.


NO this isn't happening. Look I personally don't like Sunterra but they aren't quite that bad. 

If you buy from Sunterra. You get either a deed property or points in a trusts. AND with any purchase direct from Sunterra, you also get membership into Club Sunterra. This membership means that both you and your TS is associated with the club and can use points at any of the ~100 sunterra resorts. SO you don't ever have to buy more from sunterra unless you want more points.

IF on the other hand, you buy from me. You get a deeded TS (managed by sunterra) but no membership in Club Sunterra. So you can't use points to go to the other club locations because you and your TS are not associated with the club. If you want to join and have your resale TS associated with the club, you must buy another TS or more points from Sunterra. And have a clause in the purchase agreement which says that the resale TS will also be allowed to associate with the club. 


The kicker is that when you sell you can only sell the TS (or TS points) but can't sell the membership in the club. So your buyer will own just the TS and will not be a member of the club. This may not decrease the resale value if the TS is Poipu Point in Hawaii but may greatly decrease the value of a TS in a less desirable location. 

Hope that helps


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## dougp26364

Like Bill said, the $2,995 is simply a joiner fee to have access to SunOptions points, not an attempt to resell you your own timeshare.

At this point, I can continue on as I have always done with my Suites at Polo Towers and my Villa's at Polo Towers units or, I can elect to join Club Sunterra, receive SunOptions points for my unit and enjoy all the benefits of internal exchanging through Sunterra, bypassing I.I. all together. As a side benefit it is believed by those who have joined Club Sunterra that their corporate account association with I.I. through Sunterra gives them stronger exchanging power within the I.I. system then they had prior to becoming members of Club Sunterra. 

Essentially, you own a timeshare and now you are being offered the opportunity to use your timeshare ownership to join a club that will give you additional benefits that may or may not be worth the price of admission, depending on your own personal circumstances. The price is high enough that one must really look closely at their situation to determine if it's a worthy investment or not.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

As others have pointed out, they are not reselling you your timeshare.  If you decline, you still own the timeshare you purchased.  You can use it, exchange it, rent it, sell it - everything that every other timeshare owner can do.

Club Sunterra has additional advantages - specifically direct access to all of the resorts in Club Sunterra without going through an exchange company and some pretty sweet preferential access for exchanges through II (and II membership is part of your Club Sunterra membership - no additional fee to belong to II).

Example: we own a week at Po'ipu.  Last year we bought a minimum increment of Trust points and affiliated our Po'ipu with Club Sunterra.  Then our daughter announced her engagement and their desire to get married in the Caribbean.  We quickly settled on Sint Maarten as a good location for a variety of reasons, one of which was the fact that I could easily switch our one week at Po'ipu for one 2-bdrm unit and one 1-bdrm unit at Sunterra resorts in Sint Maarten - i.e., a 2-for-1 swap.  

And I could make that swap instantly by directly reserving at the resort.  That is, I didn't have to go through an exchange company, where I would have to wait and hope that a couple of deposits were made for the right resorts with compatible check-in dates.  I went on-line, canceled out Hawai'i reservation to get the points back, and reserved the time we needed on Sint Maarten.

Had we not joined Club Sunterra we wouldn't have been able to pull it off.  Our best chance would have been to try to rent our Po'ipu week and do rentals on Sint Maarten - and it wouldn't have been nearly as advantageous for us.

*****

I'm not saying that Club Sunterra is for everyone.  I am saying that Club Sunterra is a value added feature.  Individual owners can decide whether or not that value add is worth the price.  YMMV.


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## bruwery

But aren't you signing away your deed to join this club?

Here's where I'm coming from.  In 1995, I went to a timeshare presentation at Polo Towers.  They wanted $10,000, or $15,000, or whatever - I forget the figure - to buy a timeshare.  The whole exchangability thing was a big push point for them - as it still is.

I didn't buy for various reasons.

If I had, I feel like they'd now be telling me "Hey, we lied.  That whole 'exchange to wherever you want to go' thing isn't as easy as we made it seem, and by the way, fixed weeks stink.  Points are the way to go, so if you'll pony up another $3,000 - and give us your deed - we'll give you some points and let you exchange within our system."

Am I wrong?  To join the club, you have to relinquish your deed, right?
This brings me to another question.  How do you get out of the club if timesharing is no longer feasible for you?  You can't sell it, because the club's rights don't transfer, and you relinquished your deed.  Are you stuck with MF's until the end of time?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

bruwery said:


> But aren't you signing away your deed to join this club?



Umm ......no. Reread post #41, paying close attention to point #2 and the second bullet point.


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## bruwery

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Umm ......no. Reread post #41, paying close attention to point #2 and the second bullet point.



Okay, so why would a person convert to the trust?  Why not simply go the affiliation route and keep the deed?  What am I missing here?


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## timeos2

*Trusts have been known to fail*



bruwery said:


> Am I wrong?  To join the club, you have to relinquish your deed, right?
> This brings me to another question.  How do you get out of the club if timesharing is no longer feasible for you?  You can't sell it, because the club's rights don't transfer, and you relinquished your deed.  Are you stuck with MF's until the end of time?



Those are the two big show stoppers for me as well.  Maybe it really doesn't mean all that much in the big scheme of things - and boy, does scheme ever seem to fit the timeshare game - but I want a deed for a week at resort "X" no matter what points system I'm in.  I paid little enough and have received enough value back that the non-transferability of my Club Sunterra (non-trust) to a new buyer doesn't bother me. I don't like that it can't transfer, and certainly the buyer, if they want to be in Club Sunterra, may feel the value of my week is diminished if they have to pay $2900 or more (almost 3 times what Club membership cost us) to rejoin.  But I simply wouldn't market my week to that buyer but rather one that values the use at a top resort, 100% float time with split week privileges on its own without the need for Club Sunterra.  I don't think it's hurting my resale value as much as it is likely to cost Club Sunterra a member through this short sighted policy. 

But now we have the "new" Club Sunterra - trust based.  Sorry, but I am not going to give up my deed to pay more to buy into a multi-resort trust that makes any future resale possibilities very murky. Plus I'm now just one annual payment missed away from losing my whole purchase. No foreclosure process as there would be with a deed to protect me anymore.  You wonder why developers love trust based systems?  And there is that loss of voting rights already mentioned as well as the Club overhead on top of the "blended" fees that make it very hard to believe fees can stay low for very long. Every resort I know of has rising budgets so how can the blended rate plus management overhead be lower?  Finally there is no guarantee that the trust will be properly operated and survive forever - poor management can do in any system.  

Regardless if it's Sunterra, Fairfield, RCI Points or any other points system we have a deed to the underlying property that generates the point value.  It may be a small amount of control but it is a comfort that we won't relinquish to any points system.


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## fnewman

While you may have to give up your deed to purchase into the 'trust' you certainly don't to join Club Sunterra outside the trust - at least I never have had to give mine up.  So, if and when I wanted to leave the 'club' I should be able to to do so for any or all of my weeks just by notifying them of that decision.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

bruwery said:


> Okay, so why would a person convert to the trust?  Why not simply go the affiliation route and keep the deed?  What am I missing here?



In most cases going the affiliation route is best - that's what we did.

Most people will buy the Trust because that is what Sunterra mostly sells. If a person doesn't raise an objection to giving up their deed during the sales presentation, Sunterra doesn't let them know that retaining the deed is an option.

Also, a person who owns at resort that has high maintenance fees will pay less annual fee after conversion - that's because there annual fee becomes a blend of all of the units owned by the trust.

But for us keeping our week out of the Trust was a no-brainer.  If the trust went sour we wanted to be able to terminate and revert to a deeded ownership.


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## barndweller

We are new members of Club Sunterra. We had no intention of joining the points bandwagon before attending the "owner's update" during a stay at Sedona Summit on an II exchange. We own 5 weeks of timeshare that are located at Sunterra resorts that we purchased resale for cheap.  Two of those weeks are in studios & we have to work at getting a larger unit on an II exchange or pay an upgrade fee at the independents. Another 2 are 2 bedroom lock-offs that are  every other year ownerships. We can get 2 weeks out of each of those but again we end up with studios to try to exchange into larger if possible and of course they are staggered usage.  We were able to affiliate all 5 of those weeks into a Club Sunterra membership by purchasing a 3000 point Trust ownership, the $2900 each fee was waived & we retained our deeds. Now we have 30,500 points every year to use for any size units anywhere within Sunterra for no exchange fee & larger units with  II exchanges. If we find it doesn't work well for us, we can pull any of our deeded units out of the system.  If the whole shabang goes belly up, all we are stuck holding is the 3000 Trust points we purchased  so it was a good way for us to go the points route & still have deeds to resorts we love.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

barndweller said:


> … Two of those weeks are in studios & we have to work at getting a larger unit on an II exchange or pay an upgrade fee at the independents. Another 2 are 2 bedroom lock-offs that are  every other year ownerships. We can get 2 weeks out of each of those but again we end up with studios to try to exchange into larger if possible and of course they are staggered usage.  …



Julie - 

As I've looked at things, it seems to me that you likely get enough SunOptions from those studios to use them to exchange for a peak season 2-bdrm unit through II.  Further, Sunterra gets preferential treatment from II in making exchanges - supposedly Sunterra should be able to pull any available 2-bedroom unit in the II system.

I haven't tried that, but I believe other TUGgers have.  That makes those Sunterra studios with Club affiliation some of the most cost effective traders/raiders around.


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## barndweller

Steve
That is really what sold us on the Club. We found our studio units were restricted with II trades to other studios. That's okay for us most of the time but it seems to restrict what we can see even during flex time. Being able to combine the point value & opt for larger units was a big selling point for us. The other great thing is being able to book 2+ days and not be restricted to a 7 day reservation. We have already booked 2 seperate 2 day stays to link with other trips this year. I'll have a better feel for the system when I get all my points next year, but from what I see available on-line, it will be much more flexable for us than using our individual studio weeks for exchanges.

In addition, we have the Sunterra Select option on 2 of our other resorts for an additional 1600 points if we choose. I love the member pricing on those!


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## pedro47

Barndweller,  I think you will also like exchanging with II & Club Sunterra now because it will opening more resorts to exhange into.


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## timeos2

*It makes the case for points - again*



barndweller said:


> Steve
> That is really what sold us on the Club. We found our studio units were restricted with II trades to other studios. That's okay for us most of the time but it seems to restrict what we can see even during flex time. Being able to combine the point value & opt for larger units was a big selling point for us. The other great thing is being able to book 2+ days and not be restricted to a 7 day reservation. We have already booked 2 seperate 2 day stays to link with other trips this year. I'll have a better feel for the system when I get all my points next year, but from what I see available on-line, it will be much more flexable for us than using our individual studio weeks for exchanges.
> 
> In addition, we have the Sunterra Select option on 2 of our other resorts for an additional 1600 points if we choose. I love the member pricing on those!



You are describing the superior method of trade that almost every points system offers over the week for week model. The ability to split up, combine and every other combination you can dream up  for your points used to get more time, bigger units, off season or smaller units to stretch time - all under your control is why people who have actually tried points usually prefer points. 

Club Sunterra effectively makes II a point system - and a pretty good one at that. On top of some excellent resorts that Sunterra offers for internal use.   If the price is right to get in it is one way to make your weeks ownership much more user friendly.


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## barndweller

Well, I probably paid too much for those 3000 points but it sounded good at the time.  I just hope I don't regret it down the road. The new ownership weighs on my mind a bit. Only time will tell.


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## AwayWeGo

*What Oft Was Thought But Ne'er So Well Expressed.*




timeos2 said:


> Those are the two big show stoppers for me as well.  Maybe it really doesn't mean all that much in the big scheme of things - and boy, does scheme ever seem to fit the timeshare game - but I want a deed for a week at resort "X" no matter what points system I'm in.  I paid little enough and have received enough value back that the non-transferability of my Club Sunterra (non-trust) to a new buyer doesn't bother me. I don't like that it can't transfer, and certainly the buyer, if they want to be in Club Sunterra, may feel the value of my week is diminished if they have to pay $2900 or more (almost 3 times what Club membership cost us) to rejoin.  But I simply wouldn't market my week to that buyer but rather one that values the use at a top resort, 100% float time with split week privileges on its own without the need for Club Sunterra.  I don't think it's hurting my resale value as much as it is likely to cost Club Sunterra a member through this short sighted policy.
> 
> But now we have the "new" Club Sunterra - trust based.  Sorry, but I am not going to give up my deed to pay more to buy into a multi-resort trust that makes any future resale possibilities very murky. Plus I'm now just one annual payment missed away from losing my whole purchase. No foreclosure process as there would be with a deed to protect me anymore.  You wonder why developers love trust based systems?  And there is that loss of voting rights already mentioned as well as the Club overhead on top of the "blended" fees that make it very hard to believe fees can stay low for very long. Every resort I know of has rising budgets so how can the blended rate plus management overhead be lower?  Finally there is no guarantee that the trust will be properly operated and survive forever - poor management can do in any system.
> 
> Regardless if it's Sunterra, Fairfield, RCI Points or any other points system we have a deed to the underlying property that generates the point value.  It may be a small amount of control but it is a comfort that we won't relinquish to any points system.


That pretty much sums up why I have a generally sour outlook toward SunTerra.  Sure, it's a nifty business plan -- so shrewd it might even make me want to buy stock in the company.  But no way I'd want to buy any timeshare that cannot be resold, not from SunTerra, not from any timeshare company. 

Hats off to all those folks, way smarter than me, who figured out ways they can work the SunTerra system.  I just don't want to buy whatever it is that SunTerra is selling.

I mean, shucks, with all I'm asked to pay, exactly what do I own if -- after the dust settles -- I'm left with nothing I can sell? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:


> I mean, shucks, with all I'm asked to pay, exactly what do I own if -- after the dust settles -- I'm left with nothing I can sell?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I guess that you didn't read all of the thread then Alan. I know that after the dust settles, the minimum I have to sell is the same deeded 2-bedroom unit I bought resale back in 1999.

***********

_*shucks, with all I'm asked to pay, exactly what do I own if -- after the dust settles -- I'm left with nothing I can sell? *_​
If that's truly your attitude, Alan, why do you buy cars?  Somehow, despite how much I pay for a car initially and after paying regularly for gas, insurance, upkeep, etc., the car always loses a lot more value than a good resale timeshare.  I don't think your experience is different?


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## AwayWeGo

*Something Beats Nothing.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I know that after the dust settles, the minimum I have to sell is the same deeded 2-bedroom unit I bought resale back in 1999.


Even if you hand over your 1999 2BR deed, plus a bunch of money to join the club, then when the dust settles & you quit the club, SunTerra gives you back your timeshare deed that you turned over?  That was not the understanding I got from the most recent SunTerra "owner update" stealth sales pitches I've been on (not that there's anything wrong with those -- shrewd biz plan & all that).  Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, because the only plan I heard them mention involved paying them a bunch of money _plus_ handing over the deed to the SunTerra timeshare we already owned -- a nonstarter for The Chief Of Staff & me any way they shake it.





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Alan, why do you buy cars?


Actually, that _is_ why I buy cars (used, naturally -- near new, but used all the same) instead of _leasing_ cars.  When the dust settles & I've piled on the miles & grown tired of the old heap, I still have title to the old clunker -- meaning I can sell it for whatever it will bring, even if that's not much. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:


> Even if you hand over your 1999 2BR deed, plus a bunch of money to join the club, then when the dust settles & you quit the club, SunTerra gives you back your timeshare deed that you turned over?
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Alan - go back to my post #49 in this thread.  

This issue gets discussed frequently - probably twice a month here or at TS4Ms,whenever someone posts asking for advice about buying into Sunterra or  converting.


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## AwayWeGo

*I'm All Tuned In But Still Not Getting Any Clearer Picture.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Alan - go back to my post #49 in this thread.


Going back to #49 doesn't do it, but in #41 it's right there in black & white... 



> When the affiliation is terminated, what remains is the underlying ownership - a deed if the property is still deeded or a trust UDI if the property was convereted (or the original purchase was a trust UDI).



If the original purchase was trust UDI, it is completely unclear -- here & at those "owner update" stealth timeshare sales pitches -- how the no-longer-affiliated owner has any means to use that trust UDI, no longer being in the club (because the affiliation is terminated, putting it their way).  Plus, I still saw nothing about getting back my handed-over deed(s) when the affiliation is terminated.  Also, as mentioned in #62, those "owner update" sales reps have never mentioned to us any option other than (a) handing over our deed(s) _and_ (b) paying SunTerra a bunch of money -- a double deal breaker for us.  We'll listen harder & pay closer attention next time -- if there is a next time. 

Based on what I have been able to comprehend here at TUG-BBS, some timeshare mini-systems (e.g., FairField) hard-sell their sizzle (VIP status, etc.) while still allowing resales of the actual steak (deeded ownership that works with their internal FairField timeshare points system).  Apparently the shrewdness of SunTerra boils down to their business plan of _No Steak Without Buying The Sizzle_.  I guess it works for SunTerra, so more power to them. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dougp26364

AwayWeGo said:


> Going back to #49 doesn't do it, but in #41 it's right there in black & white...
> 
> 
> 
> If the original purchase was trust UDI, it is completely unclear -- here & at those "owner update" stealth timeshare sales pitches -- how the no-longer-affiliated owner has any means to use that trust UDI, no longer being in the club (because the affiliation is terminated, putting it their way).  Plus, I still saw nothing about getting back my handed-over deed(s) when the affiliation is terminated.  Also, as mentioned in #62, those "owner update" sales reps have never mentioned to us any option other than (a) handing over our deed(s) _and_ (b) paying SunTerra a bunch of money -- a double deal breaker for us.  We'll listen harder & pay closer attention next time -- if there is a next time.
> 
> Based on what I have been able to comprehend here at TUG-BBS, some timeshare mini-systems (e.g., FairField) hard-sell their sizzle (VIP status, etc.) while still allowing resales of the actual steak (deeded ownership that works with their internal FairField timeshare points system).  Apparently the shrewdness of SunTerra boils down to their business plan of _No Steak Without Buying The Sizzle_.  I guess it works for SunTerra, so more power to them.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​




But this discussion has been about converting to SunOptions (points program but keep the deed) and not the trust. I think this thread has leaned in favor of joining the points program but not the trust. The only angel that's been discussed as a reason for joining the trust would be if you were in a high MF resort and wanted to lower your MF's by joining the trust and, with the cumulitive MF's of all resorts in the trust thus lower your yearly MF. Otherwise everyone seems to prefer to join SunOptions (points program, not the trust) and keep their deed.


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## dougp26364

*another question*

Steve, 

You're situation with the marriage of a child gave me thought of a similar situation I face, the marriage of our daughter and giving them their honeymoon as a wedding gift. In discussing this yesterday she and her intended have desires to go where exchanges might be difficult. 

I was contimplating paying my 2008 MF's with Villa's Polo Towers in order to reserve and start searching for possible exchanges. I can't do much with my Suites at Polo Towers because it's a week 36 and PT's won't allow me to reserve that week until 12 months out. Therefore I can't reserve it now, deposit it into I.I. and begin my search until the first week of Sept. 

So my question is, with Club Sunterra, in order to make reservations through the club or exchange through I.I. for 2008, would 2008 MF's have to be paid ahead of time or are they like HGVC where I can make my 2008 reservation now and pay my MF's and club membership fee's when they're due at the end of the year?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:


> If the original purchase was trust UDI, it is completely unclear -- here & at those "owner update" stealth timeshare sales pitches -- how the no-longer-affiliated owner has any means to use that trust UDI, no longer being in the club (because the affiliation is terminated, putting it their way).  Plus, I still saw nothing about getting back my handed-over deed(s) when the affiliation is terminated.  Also, as mentioned in #62, those "owner update" sales reps have never mentioned to us any option other than (a) handing over our deed(s) _and_ (b) paying SunTerra a bunch of money -- a double deal breaker for us.  We'll listen harder & pay closer attention next time -- if there is a next time.
> [/FONT]



I think that you are thinking _Club Sunterra = Sunterra Trust_.  That's not correct.  Stop thinking that - it's not true and it only confuses things.

Club Sunterra is an added benefit provided to owners of Sunterra resorts who elect to join (paying the gatekeeper fee to do so, of course).  You can't get into Club Sunterra unless you have an ownership interest in a resort. When you give up your Sunterra ownership interest, you give up your Club membership at the same time.

Trust is simply another form of Sunterra ownership. Instead of having a deed, you have an ownership interest in a trust that holds deeds to multiple resorts.  

Note that there is no overarching Sunterra trust that holds deeds to *all* Sunterra resorts.  The only way to get direct access to all Sunterra resorts is through Club Sunterra.  

As I mention above, Club Sunterra is an added benefit for Sunterra owners.  Joining the Club does not involve giving up ownership to anything (but the gatekeeper requires that you purchase additional ownership of something from Sunterra as part of the price of admission).

But anything that you own remains in your ownership, totally independent of Club Sunterra.  If you converted anything to a trust UDI (or bought a UDI) as a part of the process of joining, you continue to own that UDI.  If you have a deed that you didn't convert, you continue to own that deed.

****

Note that affiliation versus conversion applies only to deeded ownerships.  Conversion means putting your deed into a trust - if your ownership is already in a trust all you can do is affiliate that trust ownership.

******

Since no one gave up ownership of anything to join Club Sunterra, if Club goes kaflooey each members underlying ownership remains intact.

If a trust goes kaflooey, only those people who own that trust are affected.  Deeded owners at other resort and owners in other trusts are not affected.

****

In my experience, during the sales pitch conversion is the only process they describe for joining the club.  "Interested in joining? Give us your deed and convert it points and combine it with the added points you are buying. Now you'll be a member of Club Sunterra with that number of SunOptions."  

They don't tell you what is going on beneath that simplistic explanation unless the prospect starts asking questions.  No need to make things more confusing than necessary.

But it's actually a two-step process.  What's actually going on is two distinct steps.  The first step involves establishing and redefining what the members ownership interest is.  Then once that ownership interest is defined, that interest is then *affiliated* with Club Sunterra.

***

As mentioned, Sunterra wants owners in the Trust, so that is what they are most interested in selling.  They don't tell you about other options unless you scratch beneath the service.

In fact, it's not necessary to put anything in a trust as part of the gatekeeper price.  If the resort is deeded and Sunterra is selling deeds, the added purchase you make as part of the price of admission can be another deeded week.  That was an option for us when we joined the Club, but we weren't interested in adding that many SunOPtions.


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## barndweller

Doug
We just sat through the *Owner Update Stealth Sales Pitch* in May & tried to ask every possible question like the good TUGGERs that we are. Here's the deal as best we could understand: You can book within the internal Sunterra system using Sunoptions (another word for points) up to 13 month in advance for home resorts only. That would be any resorts for which you have a deed or other form of ownership (such as the Florida or Hawaiian Trust.) At other resorts within the Sunterra system you can book at 10 months. I'm not sure about II exchanges since my account is not set up yet. You are allowed to borrow Sunoptions from next year to book something. Yes, fees for your Club Sunterra account must be paid for next year IF you will be using Sunoptions from that year. I assume you would need to pay your MFs on any deeded/affiliated resorts in order to use those points as well. I'm not even sure that you can borrow any of those affiliated resort points.  Maybe Steve or Spence know the answer. Sunoptions are credited to your account every year on Jan 1st. You can bank them into the next year to save them for use later but you must do that by a specific set of deadlines or you will loose them. You can only bank forward for 1 year to save each years points.

The system can be complicated to use to full advantage. I still have a lot to learn about the nuances.

For honeymoon plans the Sunterra Select options might serve your needs. https://www.sunterraselect.com/index. Click on search & check out what sort of stuff is available. Those are non-Sunterra resorts that some members are allowed to convert to points each year if they choose to do so to gain additional points. They are available for booking with Sunoptions or for really bargain rental rates to Club Sunterra members. The list is available to the general public but the rental rates are much higher.


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## bruwery

Steve,

Thanks for your patience and diligence in explaining all of this.

So, IF I understand this (a stretch),
AND IF 
I actually agree to sit through an "owner's update" (a bigger stretch),
AND IF 
I actually want to buy into Sunterra (a REALLY BIG stretch),
my offer would essentially boil down to "Points sounds great, but you can't have my deed.  Figure out how to complete the sale, Mr. Top Salesman".


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## AwayWeGo

*Ditto.*




bruwery said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for your patience and diligence in explaining all of this.


Amen to that. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte

bruwery said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for your patience and diligence in explaining all of this.
> 
> So, IF I understand this (a stretch),
> AND IF
> I actually agree to sit through an "owner's update" (a bigger stretch),
> AND IF
> I actually want to buy into Sunterra (a REALLY BIG stretch),
> my offer would essentially boil down to "Points sounds great, but you can't have my deed.  Figure out how to complete the sale, Mr. Top Salesman".



And he should say, _"No problem.  Keep your deed and we'll just affiliate your deed with Club Sunterra.  You'll get the same number of points, and you'll keep your same home resort advantage (but you won't be able to reserve at your resort 13 months ahead of check-in as you could if you converted your deed to the trust).

But you still have to buy something from us to go with your deeded ownership for you to be able to join Club Sunterra.  So what will it be?  We have this nice selection of deeded weeks which we can sell you, or if you would rather purchase a specific number of SunOptions we can put you into a trust UDI that provides that number of points.

BTW - you can still use your trust based SunOptions for that 13-month reservation window if that's important to you."​_And your reply, if you're interested, should be something such as,_Ok - but tell you what. Since we're rolling all of these properties into the Club, why don't you also give me a one-year window in which any additional Sunterra units I purchase can be added to Club Sunterra without paying any additional fee?  Do that and you've got yourself a deal._​Call that the *"Spence Gambit"* if you like.

If they accept, you go on a Sunterra buying spree, scooping up 10k SunOption studios and 1-bdrms at low annual fee Sunterra sites and stuffing them into your portfolio.  Pretty soon you reach elite status and you've got a bunch of SunOptions acquired for cheap.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

bruwery said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for your patience and diligence in explaining all of this..



Believe me - it took me awhile to get this straightened out in my head - and I didn't really learn it until we actually went through a sale and I dissected exactly what was being offered and what my options were. 

There isn't anything there that Spence hadn't already posted and I read.  But I couldn't really wrap my arms around it until I actually pieced it together with a concrete example.

The keys for me were grasping that:

Club Sunterra is not the same as the Trust,
it doesn't make any difference to the Club whether the member owns a deed or a UDI. All the Club cares about is the member's reservation rights within Sunterra.
the Club never takes possession of anything a member owns so when you go to sell all that happens is that the affiliation between the Club and the member is dissolved.  Everything else the owner has the owner retains.

****

Be aware that purchasing small UDI units can make the UDI hard to sell. We bought 2500 SunOptions in the Sunterra Hawai'i trust.  That has little value outside Club Sunterra, since 2500 SunOptions won't really allow you to reserve anything at either of the Hawai'i properties. Hence that piddly UDI is pretty much worthless as a resale to anyone other than another Sunterra Hawai'i trust owner.


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## dougp26364

timeos2 said:


> The II account through club is a "corporate" account - you cannot use it with other resorts. At first I thought it was a problem but, like the others above, I now realize the heavy priority that these corporate memberships get vs the standard week owner makes II a different system. It's unbelievable.  I'd never use II as a mere member again.  It was an unexpected but very pleasant bonus to the Club Sunterra membership.
> 
> The cost per year is the annual fee ($150) but getting your time into Club will cost some $$$.



I finally have my DRI/Sunterra corporate account set up and can search I.I. using both my corporate account AND the two bedroom Villa's at Polo Towers unit I have on deposit.

I wanted to see first hand the value of the corporate account vs my Villa's at Polo Towers value in my personal account. I have to report that the results of corporate vs personal are, at best, mixed.

In that the corporate account using the Sun Options points given me for my Villa's and/or Suites at Polo Towers will actually pull more and/or better resorts, that is not a true statement. My Villa's at Polo Towers deposit in my personal account see's the same resorts as my corporate DRI/Sunterra points account. I find no upgrades or better resorts with my corporate account vs my personal account. This finding has been dissapointing to me.

On the other hand, the spending of my Sun Options points is a considerably more efficient usage of my Polo Towers units. Since I am only charged a point value, 6,500 points for most 2 bedroom exchanges, I can get more out of my weeks. As an example Westin Kierland rarely shows a 2 bedroom unit available (I've yet to see one doing an online search) so I exchanged my 2 bedroom Suites week (12,000 points) for a 1 bedroom Westing Kierland. If I had used my points account I could have received the same week for 6,500 Sun Options and had 5,500 points left over.

Now, I probably could have locked off my Suites week and used the 1 bedroom to pull the Westin unit. That would have left me a studio unit to exchange through I.I. While I could exchange a studio unit for a 1 bedroom unit (have done it before), it's easier to spend points to find a 1 bedroom unit.

One other major advantage, at least for us, is the discounted points required for Flexchange exchanges. We travel to Branson, MO in the spring and fall. There's generally availability somewhere if we're not to picky and there are very few Branson resorts that aren't very nice or not five star rated. So rather than use a full value exchange, I can most likely request time off at work and wait for the Flexchange period. Then All I have to do is match up my time off with whatever resort is available. For over/well developed area's this doesn't appear to be a problem.

Likewise with Las Vegas. I see a lot of availabilty on Flexchange if I'm not particular. We have a charter airline, Allegiant Airlines, that often has inexpensive flights to Vegas. Left over points from other exchanges can be used to easily flexchange for an extra vacation or long weekend trip to Vegas. For us this works as we're familiar with most of the Vegas resorts and I find acceptable resorts pretty easily right now. October/November is one of our favorite times in Vegas as the weather is reasonably mild. 

I'm assuming other such desinations will be available from time to time. Since we enjoy traveling in off season, I'm certain we'll find others that fit our needs. There are some Colorado resorts that might work for a long weekend trip and maybe even down to Texas and New Mexico. 

I'll enjoy the flexibility offered by the corporate Sunterra account. That is a big plus and you could classify that as amazing. However, the thought that the corporate account would see more and/or better resorts online seems to be an illusion. At least for Polo Towers owners. Perhaps if we had owned a lessor resort in an less desirable location or, perhaps if Vegas continues to add timeshare rooms until it exceedes a saturation point to were Vegas resorts just can't pull quality resorts things would be different. But for now, I'd say the results for me have been mixed.


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## winger

Doug. I wonder how a head-to-head comparison would end up if you were to place ongoing requests with both...


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## dougp26364

winger said:


> Doug. I wonder how a head-to-head comparison would end up if you were to place ongoing requests with both...



Which is a good question. What's seen online is mostly left overs not already taken by ongoing searches. Unfortunately, I don't want to do a head to head comparison with my current ongoing request for my Villa's unit. I'm pretty much convinced I can obtain the Key West week I've asked for as it's about the lowest weeks on the demand index. For 2007 I could have grabbed the weeks I'm asking for in 2008 online without difficulty.

While I'm not seeing anything with the Sunterra points that I don't see with my Villa's at Polo Towers week, I still like the flexibility of the points and how I can fractionalize my Polo Towers units to get a larger number of exchanges out of them. Depending on how I manage my points it's easy to see how I can get between 4 and 8 two bedroom units with the same units I was getting between 2 and 4 weeks exchange but having to settle for smaller units or not be as particular. 

In the end it will be a more efficient usage of my ownership at Polo Towers than what I've had before. This is something I had sort of calculated when I looked at the usage/exchanges I've made since originally purchasing the units. I calculated that since 1998 I had left somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 points on the table. If nothing else that would have paid one years MF's on both units or purchased 4 round trip tickets on AA's. Not that those are efficient uses for the points but, I didn't even get the inefficient usage out of the points if they had been available to me since my original purchase.


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## winger

doug in your analysis of how many units you could have pulled annually with you plain-joe polo units, did yu consider the exchages/flexchanges you could have gotten with II Accomodation Certificates ?   it sounds like with your flexibility in last-min travels and travels during off-peak times, you could definitively make use of AC's (of course there is a dollar cost with using AC's).


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## borntotravel

winger said:


> I see the points required for sunterra to sunterra reseservations, but where can I tell what what an II resort is rated at (e.g. Select, Moderate, Premium, and  Low, Med, High) ?  For example, Marriott's Timberlodge, weeks 24-33



There is no way you can personally pull up that information until you are an owner/member.  If you want to check any specific resorts/weeks private message me and I will look them up for you.


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## dougp26364

winger said:


> doug in your analysis of how many units you could have pulled annually with you plain-joe polo units, did yu consider the exchages/flexchanges you could have gotten with II Accomodation Certificates ?   it sounds like with your flexibility in last-min travels and travels during off-peak times, you could definitively make use of AC's (of course there is a dollar cost with using AC's).



Yes I considered the AC's. We rarely used the AC's for personal usage secondary to the cost (around $300 to $400) for a long weekend trip. I could generally pull acceptable hotel accomadations (3 or 4 star) from Hotwire or Priceline for those needs. If we wanted to go to Branson we could use our French Quarter ownership and rent time for $55/night rather than use an AC.

On the other hand, I would give the AC's to co-workers and would spend some time looking through the available resorts. Most of the time my co-workers are late planners and the flexchange period works very well for them. The Sun Options points pull up a lot more availability than the AC's ever did, even during the Flexchange period. 



borntotravel said:


> There is no way you can personally pull up that information until you are an owner/member.  If you want to check any specific resorts/weeks private message me and I will look them up for you.



Both Winger and I are owners. I just recieved my I.I. corporate account information a couple of days ago and I still have a two bedroom unit on deposit from this year. I can search my personal account with that deposited unit and then I can search with the DRI/Sunterra corporate account using the 2008 points from that same unit. It is as close as I'll ever get to a head to head comparison. 

To date the DRI/Sunterra corporate account does not really pull any better resorts or even a wider selection of resorts. My personal account and my home unit will still see the same things my DRI/Sunterra corporate account will see. The major difference is in how flexible the points are. There is no waste when exchanging using the Sunterra points. 

By waste I mean situations where I would trade down. An example would be trading our two bedroom Suite's week to get a 1 bedroom Westin Kierland week because that's all that shows available for the week we wanted. If I had used Sun Options the exchange would have cost me 5,500 points and left me with 6,500 points (12,000 Sun Options for our 2 bedroom Suites week). I could have pulled another 2 bedroom deposit had I been able to use Sun Options for that exchange. 

So, in one respect Sun Options is a more powerful usage of my ownership. But, if one is looking to get into more difficult resorts and trade in easier in high demand, top resort location then it's about the same.


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## winger

dougp26364 said:


> ...But, if one is looking to get into more difficult resorts and trade in easier in high demand, top resort location then it's about the same.


Doug - I disagree you have enough data to say this until you have a few actual trades where you place both units (your individual II acct  and  your CS II acct) into an ongoing request for the exact same resort/time/unit size. Say, you were to do this five times and each time the request was filled with the CS II acct, then I would say the CS II account is a stronger trader. If you get mixed results, then your statement maybe more likely true.  The way you are doing now with online searches, it is very possible absolutely no unit is available at the resorts where you are searching, so even if you had the most powerful trader in the world, you still may see the same results as anyone else searching online as you; but with an ongoing search as I suggest, it would be more obvious if one or the other II account type had higher trading power.


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## winger

borntotravel said:


> There is no way you can personally pull up that information until you are an owner/member.  If you want to check any specific resorts/weeks private message me and I will look them up for you.


I am now a new CS member, however my II acct is inactive until I pay my 2008 home resort MF.  Are you saying if my II acct were active, there is a way to tell what an II resort (non CS resort) is rated as?


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## dougp26364

That may be true. I am only looking at the surface but I did expect to see better online availability with the corporate account. Even if it was only a few resorts here and there. 

I don't do a lot of ongoing requests since I can almost always pick and choose what I want online. Key West has been the one exception in the past several years. I know that if I waited I could get two of my four choices online. At least I saw them two of them available for our dates if we wanted them in 2007. In order to have a better chance at the other two, we put in for an ongoing search. At any rate that's why I still have the Villa's unit on deposit. 

At this point though, the evidence that I do have suggests that the corporate DRI/Sunterra account isn't going to pull anything that our personal account can pull. It will just be a more efficeint usage of my ownership and that is a better, more powerful usage.


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