# Credit card use in Europe



## Bill4728 (Jul 13, 2011)

I will be going back to Europe this winter and have been told by several different sources that almost all the kiosks  (for train tickets and the like) now reqire a "smart" card. BUT I can't seem to find any US credit card companies which issue this kind of card.  Anyone?

PS it seems that my Chase debit card may be one of this smart cards.


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## Carolinian (Jul 13, 2011)

This is the chip and pin system, and yes many automated machines in western Europe will not work without them.  These things are not yet prevalent in eastern Europe, although I have a card issued in Romania that has the chip and pin system, so I am okay in western Europe.

Last I heard, the UN credit union was the only place in the US which issues regular credit cards with the European chip and pin system, although there may be someone who issues prepaid cards with it.

You can usually go to a manned counter and use your US credit card without any problem, but not generally in automated machines.

The other thing to be aware of is that credit cards in both eastern and western Europe have a PIN number, which US credit cards normally do not.  You can call your bank and set one up, and that is a wise thing to do.  In most instances, if you tell them it is a US credit card and to run it without a PIN, it goes through fine.  I recently had an experience however in a railway station where I have bought a number of tickets in the past with my US based Cap One Visa without a PIN where on this occaision I could not use the card without a PIN.  The credit card terminal was out of service in the ticket office I usually used and they sent me around the corner to another ticket office within the same station, and the machine there, which they said was old, would not take my card without a PIN number.  Fortunately, I had sufficient cash on me to buy the ticket.

Also, be aware that most US banks charge a 3% junk fee when you use your card outside the US.  Cap One and some credit unions do NOT charge this fee.  If you are travelling abroad and plan to use your credit card (same with debit), get a Cap One card.  Chase will definitely pop you for the 3%.


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## Jimster (Jul 14, 2011)

*chase*

Actually, Chase has dropped the 3% foreign transaction fee on the Marriott Card and I believe one other as well.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 25, 2011)

It appears that my Chase Debit card has the smart card feature but I'm not sure if it will work in the machines in France. Does anyone know if they will work?

Here is a bankrate article on the problem  http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-your-credit-card-may-not-work-overseas-1.aspx


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## Carolinian (Sep 25, 2011)

Bill4728 said:


> It appears that my Chase Debit card has the smart card feature but I'm not sure if it will work in the machines in France. Does anyone know if they will work?
> 
> Here is a bankrate article on the problem  http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-your-credit-card-may-not-work-overseas-1.aspx



My chip and pin card from the Romanian Commercial Bank has a gold colored square on the left side of the front of the card that has some lines with a square in the middle, three lines coming directly out from the square on each side, and other lines sort of angling up at each corner.  This is where the chip is located.  If your card does not have something resembling that, then your card is probably not chip and pin.  The gold square is about opposite the silver hologram on the right side and somewhat smaller.


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## x3 skier (Sep 25, 2011)

Bill4728 said:


> It appears that my Chase Debit card has the smart card feature but I'm not sure if it will work in the machines in France. Does anyone know if they will work?
> 
> Here is a bankrate article on the problem  http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-your-credit-card-may-not-work-overseas-1.aspx



The Euro "required" chip is actually a microchip as in a computer and looks like a gold square as noted by Carolinian. A smart card has a RFID chip in it which is a completely different type of chip. The RFID chip allows "tap and pay" or "wave and pay" like at some Mobil gas stations usually has a symbol on it like a series of arcs.

Unless you get the computer style chip, you are SOL.

Cheers


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## MULTIZ321 (Sep 25, 2011)

Chip-and-Pin Credit Card Coming to America - by 
Arthur Frommer/The Palm Beach Post


Richard


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## bellesgirl (Sep 25, 2011)

Jimster said:


> Actually, Chase has dropped the 3% foreign transaction fee on the Marriott Card and I believe one other as well.



Chase's British Airways credit card also does not charge a foreign transaction fee.


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## KevJan (Sep 26, 2011)

We just returned from France. At the terminal in Paris, we tried using our cards (we had 3 different ones) to purchase the RER ticket into Paris at the machines. All of our cards were rejected. We went to the window and talked to a real person and had no trouble. We were actually using our American Express credit card which I had forgotten to notify we would be in Europe, more than the debit card I had gotten especially for this trip. No problems anywhere except with the _machines for RER tickets._


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## Talent312 (Sep 26, 2011)

VISA is nudging the U.S. toward a chip+pin system.
It plans to require its vendors to accept such cards by April 2013.
http://news.yahoo.com/visa-goodbye-mag-stripe-credit-cards-hello-chip-154717916.html


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## stmartinfan (Sep 26, 2011)

We've been notified by our bank, Well Fargo, that we have been selected to receive one of the chip cards from them - probably because we use our credit card regularly overseas, including for a college student's semester abroad.  They had originally sent us a letter with this info several months ago, but no cards ever arrived.  Then they recently sent us another letter saying there has been a delay in issuing the cards but that they will still be sending them to us "soon." I haven't seen anything publicly about Wells Fargo starting this program, but at least it sounds like they are beginning to roll the chip cards out.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 26, 2011)

x3 skier said:


> The Euro "required" chip is actually a microchip as in a computer and looks like a gold square as noted by Carolinian. A smart card has a RFID chip in it which is a completely different type of chip. The RFID chip allows "tap and pay" or "wave and pay" like at some Mobil gas stations usually has a symbol on it like a series of arcs.
> 
> Unless you get the computer style chip, you are SOL.
> 
> Cheers


My Chase debit card doesn't have the gold square so it looks like I'm out of luck.


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## carruthers209 (Oct 7, 2011)

We just returned from a trip to Europe where we spent about 30 days.  Prior to leaving I purchased a *prepaid* "chip and pin" card from Travelex as well as exchanged dollars for euros.  I googled Travelex and found one in Sacramento operating in a very secure bank (there was a huge vault door and guard at the bank).  Travelex is very prevalent in airports but I read somewhere that the European Travelex's are under a different set up.  I think the rate was expensive for the euros purchase-I estimate I paid about 7%.  I asked the clerk about the "fees" and she said they're weren't any.  It looks like they make their money on the exchange rate.  I put $500 on the "chip and pin" and received about 330 euros on the card.  I think we ended up using only about half of it but the peace of mind was good.  When you're traveling it's not much fun trying to buy a train ticket or anything else that gets rejected because it's an American style credit card.  The "chip and pin" worked perfectly.  The clerk gave us two different pin numbers-one each for my husband and myself and there's a website where you can sign in and check your balance.  I'm guessing you will end up using the ATM machines for the most part. They're everywhere and very cheap.  I checked my bank statement when I got home and it was really cheap-about $4 for a $200 to $300 withdrawal. 

Chip and pin cards are what we need in this country.  It will eliminate a huge amount of credit card fraud which is why Europe uses the system.  There is an actual microchip on the card that you can feel.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 8, 2011)

We are planning on ordering a Travelex card on the internet, as well as bringing some exchanged currency BEFORE we go to Scotland next year. I guess we just go to any bank for that? This is our first time overseas in a foreign country. We have also applied for a Capital One MasterCard for it's no exchange fee policy. (we have a Discover Card, but were told it is not accepted in Scotland). We will also call and ask for a PIN # before we go from the credit card co. so we can hopefully use it at restaurants, etc., if the businesses will enter it manually. We will notify them that we are traveling to Scotland before we leave. We had also read here that the Travelex card would be needed for gas stations. Any suggestions as to how much to put on that card? We will be 3 adults. We plan on eating in a lot - especially breakfast, but will obviously have to food shop. We will eat some dinners and lunches out. We are not big spenders or shoppers. Just going to sight see, etc. Renting a car. :rofl: I hate the idea of using ATM machines with my bank account debit card. (I don't even use them here! Never carry it with me. Only use the bank's own ATM machine if necessary). Should we just bring more cash and exchange the money there? What a pain this all is! In the states, we always use credit cards period. Never cash! I want the least hassle. We have all we can handle with trying to UNDERSTAND the currency! Ha!


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## Talent312 (Oct 8, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> We are planning on ordering a Travelex card on the internet, as well as bringing some exchanged currency BEFORE we go to Scotland next year. I guess we just go to any bank for that?...



Sure, you can order Euros from a bank, but you'll pay thru the nose with a poor exchange rate.
IMHO, the best source for Euros _in the U.S._ is Wells Fargo Foreign Exchange... https://www.foreignexchangeservices.com/

There are other online services, such as Oanda ... http://www.oanda.com/products/fxdelivery/ ...
But I've found that Wells Fargo has a better rate.

The conventional wisdom is to get your Euros after you arrive at an ATM with a debit card (not a CC). But I think it smart to have some mad-money in your pocket, so you can concentrate on finding your luggage and hotel.


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## x3 skier (Oct 8, 2011)

Currently in London after a couple of days in Amsterdam. The national rail system will not accept credit cards without a Chip. You MUST have a chip and PIN card or use cash. You also have the privilege of paying an extra .50 Euro when you use a person and cash instead of a machine which of course our archaic banking system causes you to do because they refuse to give you a card that works except in limited cases

So in order to get from Schipohl to Amsterdam, I paid an extra .50 euro each way, took a hit for the bank fees for the ATM draw and probably a hit on the exchange rate all because I can't get a Chip and PIN.

Fortunately, London still accepts my Chipless cards. 

Cheers


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## Passepartout (Oct 8, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> We are planning on ordering a Travelex card on the internet, as well as bringing some exchanged currency BEFORE we go to Scotland next year. I guess we just go to any bank for that? This is our first time overseas in a foreign country. We have also applied for a Capital One MasterCard for it's no exchange fee policy. (we have a Discover Card, but were told it is not accepted in Scotland). We will also call and ask for a PIN # before we go from the credit card co. so we can hopefully use it at restaurants, etc., if the businesses will enter it manually. We will notify them that we are traveling to Scotland before we leave. We had also read here that the Travelex card would be needed for gas stations. Any suggestions as to how much to put on that card? We will be 3 adults. We plan on eating in a lot - especially breakfast, but will obviously have to food shop. We will eat some dinners and lunches out. We are not big spenders or shoppers. Just going to sight see, etc. Renting a car. :rofl: I hate the idea of using ATM machines with my bank account debit card. (I don't even use them here! Never carry it with me. Only use the bank's own ATM machine if necessary). Should we just bring more cash and exchange the money there? What a pain this all is! In the states, we always use credit cards period. Never cash! I want the least hassle. We have all we can handle with trying to UNDERSTAND the currency! Ha!



You will be needing a bit different mindset on using local currency than you do at home. At least you are going to a country where English (sort of) is the local language.

I wouldn't obsess about this. Don't sweat having any Pounds before you land. Go to a BANK ATM at the airport as soon as you get through Customs and Immigration and have your bags. ATMs are plentiful. You DON'T need a chip and pin card at ATMs. Just make sure that your pin code has 4 numbers. European ATMs seldom accept more. Get enough cash to cover you for a couple of days. You won't want to be constantly searching for an ATM. Start with about GBP200 ( about $300) per day for 3 adults and see how that goes. Don't keep it ALL in one stash. Here's my converter of choice: http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/ And here's one you can print and trim to fit in your pocket: http://www.gocurrency.com/travelers-pocket.htm

Plan on using cash for most meals/small purchases and use CC for car rental/lodging and larger purchases. Prices will be higher than at home, so plan your purchases accordingly.

Mostly, HAVE FUN! Scotland is peopled with some of the friendliest folks you will ever meet!

Jim Ricks


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## WinniWoman (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks for the advice! 

But if you use a credit card at an ATM to get cash, you incur finance charges from the get go. I don't like that!

My CITIBANK ATM bank debit card has a 6 digit pin#, so I can't use it at the ATM's there? Or do you just mean 4 digits only for Credit Card pins? (As I mentioned, I really hate even to take my bank ATM debit card - I don't like debit cards - they seem more vulnerable to having your bank account wiped out if they are stolen, etc.)
What about taking American dollars and converting them there? How does that work. As x3 skier said, it seems that they penalize you overseas for using cash! What the?

I think I am starting to like the Travelex card more and more, despite it's fees...I assume you can use it for pretty much everything? 

Seems like this is one of the situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't...Not to mention the outrageous airfare! We just had a wonderful vacation out West for the 3 of us - under $4000.00 total with everything. The airfare *alone* to Scotland (direct) is $4000.00 for the 3 of us! I think we'll be eating one meal a day!:hysterical:


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## Passepartout (Oct 9, 2011)

Do not use a credit card as an ATM card for cash. You will incur charges, it will be treated as a cash advance and will accrue interest from day one instead of the grace period allowed with purchases.

Your bank can change your ATM card PIN to 4 digits. Do that and use it. If you are concerned about your debit card's exposure, you can control the amount of liability you are open to by just keeping slightly more than you are planning to withdraw in the account and adding to it (via computer) as needed. We keep enough there for an amount we feel we will need for the trip. We just don't have it linked to overdraft protection for the duration of a trip. 

Before you go out of the country, call your card carriers and tell them your itinerary. That will keep them from shutting down your account(s) when they all of a sudden get charges from abroad.

You CAN exchange cash, but you (a) expose yourself to theft, and (b) will have to find banks whenever you want to exchange some, and (c) you will be paying commission on every transaction. Believe me, using ATMs in Europe is the way to go. Convenient. Cheap. Best bank rate. You get a receipt for every transaction and one in your statement when you get home so that you can keep track.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks, Jim. Good idea. Will change our ATM card password to 4 digits and just use the debit card and the Travelex and some currency. Will take the Capital One credit card to use if possibly can. 

How are the ATM machines set up? You put in a withdrawal amount in B P Sterlings? Later, it just shows up on your bank statement in US dollars? (You can see we are newbies with all this!)


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## Passepartout (Oct 9, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> How are the ATM machines set up? You put in a withdrawal amount in B P Sterlings? Later, it just shows up on your bank statement in US dollars? (You can see we are newbies with all this!)



Yes. They work just like at home except the amounts are in GBP. If you are as unfamiliar as you say, you may want to make a transaction or 2 at your local bank before you go.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Oct 9, 2011)

Oh, I know how to use the ATM machines here in the he states! I am not that bad! I was just wondering how they worked overseas, since the bank account is in the US. Thanks!


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## Carolinian (Oct 12, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> Oh, I know how to use the ATM machines here in the he states! I am not that bad! I was just wondering how they worked overseas, since the bank account is in the US. Thanks!



They are little different.  In some countries like the UK, they will tell you if there is any local charge on using the machine.  For those attached to banks, there usually is not.  For free standing ones, there may well be a charge.


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## Carolinian (Oct 12, 2011)

For eastern Europe, there is another issue with credit cards, and that is PIN numbers.  All European cards I have ever been aware of, whether credit or debit, have PINs, unlike the US where typically only debit cards have PINs.  In eastern Europe, there is no chip and PIN system, but the credit card machines used by merchants, restaurants, etc. always seem to ask them for a PIN so they ask you.  If you tell them that it is an American card that does not have a PIN, most of them can then process it without a PIN but I have run into rare exceptions.  American banks can assign a PIN to a credit card, and that is the best thing to do if you are travelling in eastern Europe.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 12, 2011)

*New Capital One Credit Card*

I just got my new Capital One credit card. I called to get a 4 digit pin# as some here suggested for use overseas. They said the only pin #'s they have are for ATM machines - cash advances. I tried to explain that a merchant might ask for one, and they said they do not have that kind of pin # to give me. I do not want to use a credit card for cash: just for purchases and restaurants, etc. Did I misunderstand the tuggers here?


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## Passepartout (Oct 12, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> Did I misunderstand the tuggers here?



Possibly. Use a credit card for purchases only, not for cash. No PIN needed. Use a debit card for cash withdrawals from an ATM. The DEBIT card needs a 4 digit PIN. 

You CAN get a PIN for your CC, but using it to get cash will result in the highest interest allowed from the first day. I didn't mention it at first so you wouldn't be tempted to use CC for cash.

Using the debit card, you will pay a service fee ($2-3 each time) both to your bank and to the bank where you make a withdrawal. You might ask at your bank if they have an association with any British banks to reduce this, but don't bet on it. Limit your cash withdrawals to enough to last you a couple of days. If you do it more frequently, the fees will eat your lunch.

Clearer?

Jim


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## Talent312 (Oct 12, 2011)

Many banks (+ credit unions) do not charge a fee for using debit cards outside its system, even if at foreign ATM's. Fees will be charged by the foreign bank or network... Although, strangely, we found that British banks did not charge ours. Not sure why.

As for using a PIN with a CC:
Many U.S. banks are clueless, since the chip+PIN system, like the metric system, has not been adopted in the U.S. You may as well ask them how many kilometers is their nearest branch.

But my credit union issues PIN's for CC's, primarily to facilitate cash advances:
"You will be asked for your credit card PIN... Call us if you don’t have your credit card PIN."

My credit union's CC has no foreign transation fee and no cash-advance fee.
-- But interest accrues for cash advances from date of use. --


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## Carolinian (Oct 13, 2011)

You will find that in many places in eastern Europe, credit cards, too, routinely require PIN's.

Usually, when you tell them it is an American credit card, they can process it without a PIN.  That works so well normally that I had not bothered to get the PIN for any of my US credit cards, but occaisionally it doesn't.  Like a few months ago at the railway station in Iasi, Romania when I was buying tickets to Cluj.  The credit card machine at the main ticket office was down, so they sent me to a sattelite ticket office which had a credit card machine but apparently an old one. (These were not automated machines, but ones behind the counter operated by railway staff)  They knew an American credit card should not require a PIN, but they could not get the machine to process it, in spite of calling several people to ask suggestions.  They finally handed me a refusal slip which had printed on it ''PIN required''.  Since I had two cards on me issued by two banks in two eastern European countries, I handed them one of those and bought my tickets with no problem.




Passepartout said:


> Possibly. *Use a credit card for purchases **only, not for cash. No PIN needed*. Use a debit card for cash withdrawals from an ATM. The DEBIT card needs a 4 digit PIN.
> 
> You CAN get a PIN for your CC, but using it to get cash will result in the highest interest allowed from the first day. I didn't mention it at first so you wouldn't be tempted to use CC for cash.
> 
> ...


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## Carolinian (Oct 13, 2011)

Many British banks do not charge fees for use of their ATM's.  Many of them have signs up at the ATM or a screen on the ATM that tells you that.

As to ATM usage fees charged by foreign banks, a few debit card issuers like Cap One will refund these to you.



Talent312 said:


> Many banks (+ credit unions) do not charge a fee for using debit cards outside its system, even if at foreign ATM's. Fees will be charged by the foreign bank or network... Although, strangely, we found that British banks did not charge ours. Not sure why.
> 
> As for using a PIN with a CC:
> Many U.S. banks are clueless, since the chip+PIN system, like the metric system, has not been adopted in the U.S. You may as well ask them how many kilometers is their nearest branch.
> ...


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## Carolinian (Oct 13, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> I just got my new Capital One credit card. I called to get a 4 digit pin# as some here suggested for use overseas. They said the only pin #'s they have are for ATM machines - cash advances. I tried to explain that a merchant might ask for one, and they said they do not have that kind of pin # to give me. I do not want to use a credit card for cash: just for purchases and restaurants, etc. Did I misunderstand the tuggers here?



If they give you a four digit PIN it should work for any purpose.  Most places, from my experience, are able to process US credit cards without having a PIN if you tell them it is an American credit card and does not have a PIN.  There are the rare exceptions, and having the PIN may be useful for those.  If it was not for the fact that I carry two eastern European cards issued by banks in two different countries that provide backup, I would certainly ask for a PIN for my own Cap One.  With that backup, however, I have not bothered.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 13, 2011)

Phew! So if I ask for an ATM Pin # for my Capital One Credit Card (which I wouldn't use for cash advances because of the interest charges), I would use that same Pin # when using it as a straight out credit card if the merchant requires it?


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## x3 skier (Oct 13, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> Phew! So if I ask for an ATM Pin # for my Capital One Credit Card (which I wouldn't use for cash advances because of the interest charges), I would use that same Pin # when using it as a straight out credit card if the merchant requires it?



Seldom been asked for a PIN in the UK when using Cap One as a Credit Card but usually aked in the Netherlands this trip. France stores also did not ask for a PIN when making charges. You get one PIN per card for whatever use.  

Everyone did ask for a signature and did a good job of comparing it to the card (if you had signed the card). If you had not, they accepted some other ID with your signature like a drivers licence. 

Cheers


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## Passepartout (Oct 13, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> Phew! So if I ask for an ATM Pin # for my Capital One Credit Card (which I wouldn't use for cash advances because of the interest charges), I would use that same Pin # when using it as a straight out credit card if the merchant requires it?



Yes.  Doubtful they will ask, but yes.


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## Carolinian (Oct 14, 2011)

The credit card PIN issue is something you are much more likely to run into in eastern Europe than western Europe.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2012)

Can some one help me with the above question I posted in October? Should I just get the 4 -digit pin for my Capital One credit card  for the ATM machines (even though I will not be using the card for cash advances) and then use that same pin if a retailer asks for it when I am using my credit card? I am very confused!


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## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry everyone. I didn't realize this question was already previously answered. Thanks for all you help. (I there a way to delete your own post when you go to edit it?)


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