# High Country Club Amenities



## jscboston (Sep 28, 2007)

I am considering a membership in High Country Club.  We have owned Marriott timeshares for several years, and one of our concerns with HCC is that we may be giving up amenities that we have enjoyed at Marriott.  Examples include swimming pools, fitness centers, kids activities, internet access, DVD players, and cable TV with HBO.  Of course it goes without saying that the HCC units are bigger, nicer, etc than the Marriotts so that's not the issue, and I understand that life is full of trade-offs.  

I would appreciate any comments on which of these amenities are available at HCC properties.  I know kids activities will not be available, but our kids are getting old enough (8 and 6 years old) that they are about to outgrow them so that's not a big deal.  But most of the other things (especially swimming pools and cable TV) will remain important for the forseeable future.  Are many of the properties a part of condo communities or planned developments that provide access to pools or fitness centers?  And do they have cable and/or internet access available within the units?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.


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## Tedpilot (Sep 28, 2007)

JSC - Each unit that I have stayed at has had all of the goodies.  Cable or satellite, wireless internet, DVD players w/ surround, flatscreens, XBOXs, unlimited long distance (Vonage from outside CONUS), and so on.  Most units are either a part of or attached to a complex that have a reciprocal that allows pool usage - most have their own pool in the complex.  Unfortunately the public side of the website does not show the details associated with these.  The only unit that I have stayed at without a pool or pool rights was the lodge at Breckenridge but it has a hot tub.  Fitnes centers are hit and miss.  Then again, many towns have great facilities that can be used to keep the heart rate up if the associated complex does not have one for a nominal cost.  If you had a particular question regarding one of the units the staff at HCC would be more than happy to get you whatever info you need.

Ted


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## LTTravel (Sep 28, 2007)

jscboston said:


> I am considering a membership in High Country Club.  We have owned Marriott timeshares for several years, and one of our concerns with HCC is that we may be giving up amenities that we have enjoyed at Marriott.  Examples include swimming pools, fitness centers, kids activities, internet access, DVD players, and cable TV with HBO.  Of course it goes without saying that the HCC units are bigger, nicer, etc than the Marriotts so that's not the issue, and I understand that life is full of trade-offs.
> 
> I would appreciate any comments on which of these amenities are available at HCC properties.  I know kids activities will not be available, but our kids are getting old enough (8 and 6 years old) that they are about to outgrow them so that's not a big deal.  But most of the other things (especially swimming pools and cable TV) will remain important for the forseeable future.  Are many of the properties a part of condo communities or planned developments that provide access to pools or fitness centers?  And do they have cable and/or internet access available within the units?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the feedback.



HCC properties vary. Some are independant homes, some are condos in resorts. If you look at their properties on their web site, you may get a fairly good idea of the variety. In general, most if not all the properties have internet access, DVD players, cable TV with HBO and even XBox 360's. The individual homes may have a pool, and they try to get a membership in a nearby health club and give you access. The ones in a condo complex have a pool, usually have a fitness center and may have kids programs. 
For example, the Hilton Head property has all the internal things that you require plus a private pool and access to a health club. The Villa la Estancia properties in Cabo and Puerto Vallarta are part of a condo/resort and have all the features you mention. The Beaver Creek condo is not only ski in ski out, but has access to the Hyatt next door with its pool (though I think that there is a fee), Several of the other ski areas are part of a condo which have access to a pool and hot tub or may have a private hot tub. 
I think you will be happy with what they provide. The only thing is that most of the properties are much quieter that what you are used to at timeshare. that may be good or bad depending on what you prefer.


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## travelguy (Sep 30, 2007)

*Marriott vs. High Country Club*

Twice I've had the experience of a two week stay with the first week at a High Country Club property and then moving to a Marriott (MVC) timeshare the following week.  The locations were Breckenridge and Hilton Head Island.

It was actually depressing to stay at the Marriotts the second week.  We've become so spoiled by the HCC residences that even quality timeshares like Marriott and Hilton are not cutting it anymore.  In fairness I should point out that both HCC properties were stand alone homes with great amenities.  The Marriotts actually had better location but the space, furnishing, amenities and general vibe of the HCC properties was a world better.  I don't mean to disparage the Marriott timeshares because they are truly top quality timeshare properties.  It's just that the quality of the HCC properties crush them.

These experiences have me convinced that my long term plan is to sell-off my remaining timeshares and get another DC membership.  I'm still waiting for a DC to offer a timeshare trade-in program for membership!


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 30, 2007)

travelguy said:


> These experiences have me convinced that my long term plan is to sell-off my remaining timeshares and get another DC membership.



Where have I heard that before?

What other DC do you like?


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 30, 2007)

travelguy said:


> These experiences have me convinced that my long term plan is to sell-off my remaining timeshares and get another DC membership.



Out of curiosity, what do you estimate the week in Breck and HHI cost you for the timeshare vs. HCC?


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 30, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Where have I heard that before?
> 
> What other DC do you like?



Steamboat, I'd also like to know what other DCs you like as well?  I know you love your HCC membership.


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## Bourne (Sep 30, 2007)

I know that they are extremes but if I were to buy another DC membership, I would buy ER. 

At this point I am happy with my membership and would upgrade to Private level in the next couple of years.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 30, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> Steamboat, I'd also like to know what other DCs you like as well?  I know you love your HCC membership.



I like the following DCs (in order):

1. High Country Club (I am already a happy member)
2. Exclusive Resorts (this is really getting too expensive now)
3. Private Escapes (growing rapidly and "may" be merged with UR)
4. Ultimate Resorts (see PE above)
5. BelleHavens (I like the equity model, just want more locations)
6. Quintess/LRW (expensive and great collection of homes)
7. Distinctive Holiday Homes (seems to be the greatest deal now...especially the yachts, I wish they were all USA properties)

I also like Yellowstone Club World and Ciel, but these are unrealistic for me.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 30, 2007)

i believe ciel's new executive plan is priced more like solstice's entry level plan.

im amazed at how many of YCW's properties are condo/resort style.


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## jscboston (Sep 30, 2007)

*Thanks, and another question*

Thanks for the responses to my original post about HCC's amenities.

I have another question about HCC.  Have members had good experiences with availability of desirable properties during high demand times without making a long-term reservation?  In other words, is it possible to get anything good within the short-term 90-day booking window, or does it end up that  those 90-day reservations end up being for the off-season?


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## Tedpilot (Sep 30, 2007)

JSC - I think that is a pretty subjective question depending on your tastes and definitions.  The 90 day reservation availability is sporatic from what I have seen.  I would not expect to get Beaver Creek for Xmas, but you might get Steamboat for Thanksgiving like I did at 90 days.  I've not personally been presented a situation yet at the 90 day point yet that I have not been able to book a property that I knew I would enjoy.  I personally pick my travel window (+/- 1 wk) very carefully based upon varying factors and then target a type of property that I would like for that particular vacation.  From there I decide if I need to burn a long term reservation or can wait until 90 days.  So far so good.  As a rule of thumb, major holidays at the most popular locations are reserved one year out.

If you like to/can go off peak the 90 day res works great.  You'll be able to snag virtually anything you like less La Costa which has very limited availability.

Ted


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## vineyarder (Oct 1, 2007)

> You'll be able to snag virtually anything you like less La Costa which has very limited availability.



Why does the HCC property at La Costa have limited usage restrictions?  Plenty of other DCs (including PE) have properties in La Costa without any limitation of their usage...  Anyone know the history behind this?


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## NAL (Oct 1, 2007)

La Costa is a condo-tel and has a requirement that only a certain number of days can be in residence by the owner and the rest have to be made available as a rental. Has something to do with the land use and local government requirements in the area. From what I understand, this would be the same for anyone who owned a unit at La Costa, be it a private individual or a DC but maybe I am wrong here. I can't remember the numbers but it seems like they have only about 20 weeks available or so. 

Availability is also difficult as this is one of the best HCC bargains since it is one of the most spacious 2 bedrooms in the complex and rents for something like $1500 night which when compared to the nightly cost of HCC really is a bargain. This was the first HCC property I stayed at and was totally impressed. The PE unit is only one bedroom and would rent for much less.


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## vineyarder (Oct 1, 2007)

> The PE unit is only one bedroom and would rent for much less.



The PE unit I saw was 2530 sq ft., 3 bedrooms/4 baths...

http://www.private-escapes.com/clubs/Floorplan.aspx?prop=La_Costa,_CA.prop&club=plat


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## vineyarder (Oct 1, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> The PE unit I saw was 2530 sq ft., 3 bedrooms/4 baths...
> 
> http://www.private-escapes.com/clubs/Floorplan.aspx?prop=La_Costa,_CA.prop&club=plat



Never mind - just realized that was the Platinum club unit at La Costa...


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## travelguy (Oct 1, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Where have I heard that before?



I keep mentioning my idea of timeshare trade-in for a DC membership but no one ever even comments on it.  I was hoping the idea would catch fire and thousands of Tuggers would rise up with me and demand that one of the DCs take our tired, our poor, our down-trodden timeshares as trade for shiny new DC memberships!  Am I hearing a ground swell of support?  Anyone?



> What other DC do you like?



Here's the Travelguy LIST:
1. High Country Club - Private Member and loving it.  Would get another membership if they had a deal for multiples (hmm...)
2. Exclusive Resorts - I supposedly fit their "target demo" but can't personally justify the cost.  Do I really NEED a $3Mil property instead of a $1-2Mil property?  Plus I hear that their parties are very elitist.
3. Private Escapes - Wait and see although they seem to be pricing themselves out of the $1Mil market!
4. Ultimate Resorts - Not a good value even if they merge with all the remaining DCs!
5. BelleHavens - If I wanted a vacation home with a poor R.O.I., I'd buy one myself!
6. Quintess/LRW - If I can't justify $3Mil homes, how do I justify $4Mil homes?  Will I feel better about myself if the faucet where I brush my teeth is gold plated?
7. Distinctive Holiday Homes - Luv the yachts but somethings not right here!  'Nuf said.
8. Yellowstone Club World and Ciel - No, for the same reason I don't own a Bentley.


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## travelguy (Oct 1, 2007)

jscboston said:


> Thanks for the responses to my original post about HCC's amenities.
> 
> I have another question about HCC.  Have members had good experiences with availability of desirable properties during high demand times without making a long-term reservation?  In other words, is it possible to get anything good within the short-term 90-day booking window, or does it end up that  those 90-day reservations end up being for the off-season?



Ted gave you a very accurate answer to this question.  I'll give you my personal experience which is that at 90 days there is still a good availability in high season but NOT for high demand HOLIDAYS like Christmas and New Years.  You can book the $2Mil ski property during Spring Break (did it last year @ 60 days out) and a beach property during the summer (did it this year @ 90 days out).  As in all travel, planning is key!

Another way to view HCC availability is that it's unbelievably open when compared to timeshare exchange availability!


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## vineyarder (Oct 1, 2007)

> I keep mentioning my idea of timeshare trade-in for a DC membership but no one ever even comments on it. I was hoping the idea would catch fire and thousands of Tuggers would rise up with me and demand that one of the DCs take our tired, our poor, our down-trodden timeshares as trade for shiny new DC memberships! Am I hearing a ground swell of support? Anyone?



I suggested this to PE 8 months ago, but just got a chuckle... I suggested this to HCC before I joined a few months ago, and got the same response...  But maybe ER would be open to the idea, since they are so open-minded and interested in appealling to TUGgers?


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## Steamboat Bill (Oct 1, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Another way to view HCC availability is that it's unbelievably open when compared to timeshare exchange availability!



This is a significant statement that needs repeating. I agree, not only for HCC, but for all DCs.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Oct 1, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> I suggested this to PE 8 months ago, but just got a chuckle... I suggested this to HCC before I joined a few months ago, and got the same response...  But maybe ER would be open to the idea, since they are so open-minded and interested in appealling to TUGgers?




I assumed he was kidding.  Are you?  

If a DC took a timshare as a trade-in they would only offer you a fraction of what they could quicky dump it for.  You would be much better off selling it yourself.


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## travelguy (Oct 2, 2007)

*Time-Share Trade-In!*



GOLFNBEACH said:


> I assumed he was kidding.  Are you?




Au contraire my friend, if you mean me by "he was kidding".  I'm deadly serious about this trade-in thing.  I've sold timeshares in the past and it's truly a pain even if it goes as planned.  Ebay is the quickest and that takes lots of effort and time.



> If a DC took a timeshare as a trade-in they would only offer you a fraction of what they could quickly dump it for.  You would be much better off selling it yourself.



I believe that a DC would be able to offer me slightly MORE than the actual market value (i.e. Ebay value) if they had an established trade-in program.  For the same way a car dealer can give you more for your car's trade-in value than a straight purchase.  Some of the gross profit of the DC membership could be added to the timeshare trade-in value and marketing costs would cover the cost of the resale of the traded timeshare on the market.

The perfect scenario is that a DC makes me an offer for my timeshare(s) based on the average of Ebay sales over the last six months for the same property and comparable size & season.  I then apply that to the purchase price of the DC membership.  AND I don't have to wait for the timeshares to sell, pay any of the costs of sale/transfer or waste any time in the process!

In this scenario, is it worth two Marriott weeks and one Hilton week for SIX and a half weeks of HCC Private membership?


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## vineyarder (Oct 2, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Au contraire my friend, if you mean me by "he was kidding".  I'm deadly serious about this trade-in thing.  I've sold timeshares in the past and it's truly a pain even if it goes as planned.  Ebay is the quickest and that takes lots of effort and time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't kidding either, for the same reasons as stated above... although I didn't have high expectations that they would agree...  I also proposed the following:

_*a wild idea…*

Four Seasons Aviara is a gorgeous resort, always ranked as one of the top resorts in the country by Conde Nast, Travel & Leisure, Zagats, etc.  They have 2 bedroom 3 bath condos that are absolutely spectacular, and come with Four Seasons amenities (complimentary shoeshine, room service, concierge service, etc.).  These units sell as timeshares/fractionals, previously as high as $40K per week, but there are tons of resale weeks for sale at about $13K - $15K.  The reason that there are so many resale weeks on the market is that Four Seasons failed to make good on their promise regarding trading opportunities; they only have 2 other timeshare developments, and trading between them is nearly impossible, and while the weeks trade very well through Interval International, no other timeshare development out there meets the quality of the Four Seasons timeshares.  Virtually everyone that has been there is extremely impressed, but the trading opportunities just don’t exist (without trading to a lower quality product).


Now let’s say a DC were to buy up 52 weeks; you would add a very desirable year-round property with the Four Seasons name to the portfolio.  Even if you paid $13,000 per week (X 52 weeks), you’d only pay $676,000, well below the $850,000 average.  But, the people who bought these weeks are by and large a group of wealthy people interested in luxury travel, and they are selling because they want variety.  So, you could contact people who have their week on the market, and offer to let them trade-in their Four Seasons Aviara week as a $15,000 credit toward the membership deposit.  This turns the acquisition into a sales tool, and could also turn the acquisition into a cash-in event instead of a cash-out event.  But it gets better – since all the weeks are floating weeks, you could book 8 units at Xmas, 8 units at New Years, 4 units at Presidents Week, 4 units at Easter, and the rest spread throughout higher demand periods.  So one acquisition gets you 16 more Xmas/New Years weeks, helping availability in peak/holiday periods tremendously!!!  So the net result is that you gain members, get a debt-free, gorgeous Four Seasons property in the portfolio without any upfront cost, and get 16 extra weeks of availability at Christmas & New Years!  The downside is that the annual maintenance dues would be $1800 X 52 = $93,600 per year, which is probably much higher than average, but it includes your concierge/local host services, as well as maintenance, repairs, etc., and since you are saving on the acquisition costs, maybe the numbers would work…  I suggest this with only a smidgen of self-interest, as I’d be happy to trade in my Aviara week for a credit against annual dues!_


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## GOLFNBEACH (Oct 2, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> I wasn't kidding either, for the same reasons as stated above... although I didn't have high expectations that they would agree...  I also proposed the following:
> 
> _*a wild idea…*
> 
> …  I suggest this with only a smidgen of self-interest, as I’d be happy to trade in my Aviara week for a credit against annual dues!_



Good wild idea, but I'm surprised that you (or others) that recently paid up to $40K for a week would be willing to sell for as low as $13K because it is difficult to trade.

EDIT: Does the Four Seasons operating agreement allow DCs to own/rent the units?


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## GOLFNBEACH (Oct 2, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Au contraire my friend,
> 
> I believe that a DC would be able to offer me slightly MORE than the actual market value (i.e. Ebay value) if they had an established trade-in program.  For the same way a car dealer can give you more for your car's trade-in value than a straight purchase.



I don't follow this logic at all.  A new car dealership does NOT offer more for a trade in than selling on your own.  You may think the dealer is offering a high trade, however, they are simply providing a lower discount on the new car. 

Having said that, many people like the simplicity of working through the dealer and not having to hassle with selling a used car.  I bet there are many people that would trade in a timeshare to the DC if that option was available.  Just don't expect that you will be getting any great deal on it.


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## Steamboat Bill (Oct 2, 2007)

I think some DC (HCC) should contact Four Seasons and BUY 52 contracts at the abvoe stated prices....then offer is as a membership club. However, most DCs only put down 20-30% and finance the rest.


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## travelguy (Oct 2, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I don't follow this logic at all.  A new car dealership does NOT offer more for a trade in than selling on your own.  You may think the dealer is offering a high trade, however, they are simply providing a lower discount on the new car.
> 
> Having said that, many people like the simplicity of working through the dealer and not having to hassle with selling a used car. I bet there are many people that would trade in a timeshare to the DC if that option was available. Just don't expect that you will be getting any great deal on it.



GnB,

You DO follow the logic!  Here's your quote with the appropriate changes for a DC:

"A *DC* does not offer more for a trade in than selling on your own.  You may think the *DC* is offering a high trade, however, they are simply providing a lower discount on the new *MEMBERSHIP*."

Having said that, many people like the simplicity of working through the *DC* and not having to hassle with selling a *TIMESHARE*.  I bet there are many people that would trade in a timeshare to the DC if that option was available.  Just don't expect that you will be getting any great deal on it."

To summarize:
1. I'll take market value (or above) for my timeshare trade-in.  I don't care how the DC does the math, just the net result.
2. I Don't want the hassle of selling my timeshares.
3. I'd rather deal direct with the DC and start booking my reservations now instead of waiting for my timeshare to sell/escrow/close/etc.
4. I also believe that many people would jump at this option, including those who have not yet become DC members!


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## GOLFNBEACH (Oct 2, 2007)

travelguy said:


> GnB,
> 
> You DO follow the logic!  Here's your quote with the appropriate changes for a DC:
> 
> ...



Travelguy, that is some fuzzy math. 

Surely you understand...

A DC has a list of membership prices.  Do you want them to tell you that the membership price is $15K higher than it is so you feel good about providing you with a $15K trade on your timeshare?


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## travelguy (Oct 2, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> Travelguy, that is some fuzzy math.
> 
> Surely you understand...
> 
> A DC has a list of membership prices.  Do you want them to tell you that the membership price is $15K higher than it is so you feel good about providing you with a $15K trade on your timeshare?



Not sure why you consider it "fuzzy".  Surely you understand that DCs, like most businesses, have inherent profit margins, marketing funds and incentive funds built into their pricing.  Being that a timeshare trade-in program is a GREAT marketing program, why not assign those built-in funds to help support the trade-in costs of the timeshare taken in trade?  This is a concept similar to that used in marketing and co-op advertising funding in the hard goods business.

Here's an example (valuations are made up for example only):
1. I have a Hilton Grandiose Vacation Camp (HGVC) North Beach week worth 70,000 PP (Paris Points) 
2. The average of the most recent completed sales of comparable HGVC NoBe 70K PP timeshares on eBay over the last 6 months is $46,000.
3. I sign over the timeshare to destination club Exclusive Attitudes (EA) and receive a $46,000 credit toward EA membership at "Snob" level or above.
4. I buy a "Elitist" membership from EA for twelve BILLION dollars  $200,000 and my $46,000 credit is deducted for a net cost of $154,000.  (Note that I still have to queue-up on the waiting list for 37 months until I can actually reserve a property in EA!)
5. EA still provides financing for my purchase and provides referral payments to my uppity friend who referred me, I just don't get invited to the swanky EA parties.

Hope this puts the TravelGuy timeshare trade-in program in focus!


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## GOLFNBEACH (Oct 2, 2007)

travelguy said:


> .
> 
> Hope this puts the TravelGuy timeshare trade-in program in focus!



Please send me a note when HCC adopts this plan.


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