# DRI Hawaii points discussion



## T_R_Oglodyte

We had our "Owners Update" in Poipu this week.  According to the sales rep, the minimum block of points they sell in the Hawaii Collection is 11,500 points, at more than $100,000.

At that price point I can't imagine that they wouldn't continue to take deedbacks for weeks and trust memberships at Poipu and Kaanapali.


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## pedro47

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> We had our "Owners Update" in Poipu this week.  According to the sales rep, the minimum block of points they sell in the Hawaii Collection is 11,500 points, at more than $100,000.
> 
> At that price point I can't imagine that they wouldn't continue to take deedbacks for weeks and trust memberships at Poipu and Kaanapali.



Repeat deedbacks by DRI is a WIN WIN for DRI.


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## geist1223

*DRI*



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> We had our "Owners Update" in Poipu this week.  According to the sales rep, the minimum block of points they sell in the Hawaii Collection is 11,500 points, at more than $100,000.
> 
> At that price point I can't imagine that they wouldn't continue to take deedbacks for weeks and trust memberships at Poipu and Kaanapali.



In February we bought 7500 points and paid less than $30,000.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

geist1223 said:


> In February we bought 7500 points and paid less than $30,000.


Was that Hawaii Collection?  Hawaii Collection supposedly sells for more $/point than US Collection.

Every time we say "No, thank you" when they throw out the initial price, soon thereafter the presenter goes to review our account info, and finds some previous offer which we declined and for some reason is still valid even though we were very explicitly told that the offer would never be available to us.  This time they found an offer for us at about $3.30/point that we first turned down about eight years ago.  Last year they dredged up that offer again, and tried to get us to buy 10,000 points to get to Gold, which still would have been more than $30k. We said no, as the sales person professed astonishment that we would turn down such an outrageous deal when the retail price for those same points was nearly $100k.

This year they "discovered" that that offer hadn't been properly closed out in their system, and could possibly be reactivated.  They said that we could have purchased 3500 points under that offer, and if we had also enrolled one of our other timeshare ownerships in the Club Combinations program we could have gotten 6500 points toward membership level, giving the 10,000 additional we needed for Gold membership.  Since that wasn't explained to us last year, they would be willing to petition the main office to reopen the offer if we submitted such a request.  

It was worth it to us to get to a Gold at that price point so we did it.  So effectively the price to get into Gold dropped from $105K to $12K.


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## johnrsrq

This year they "discovered" that that offer hadn't been properly closed out in their system, and could possibly be reactivated.  They said that we could have purchased 3500 points under that offer, and if we had also enrolled one of our other timeshare ownerships in the Club Combinations program we could have gotten 6500 points toward membership level, giving the 10,000 additional we needed for Gold membership.  Since that wasn't explained to us last year, they would be willing to petition the main office to reopen the offer if we submitted such a request.  

It was worth it to us to get to a Gold at that price point so we did it.  So effectively the price to get into Gold dropped from $105K to $12K.[/QUOTE]

I would suppose that "gold" was  worthwhile addition to your dri CLUB account. Given the knowledge you have shared over time, it gives some credence to my eventual plan to go up a level, should I care to. 

Seems to me, too many bashers of dri (although they deserve much) and do not understand how the model is opening hotel, higher end properties and on average less costly for those in *legacy* entrants into the CLUB not direct *no-combo* retail.  There seems to be an insistance on this as a fact but when I look at lower entry Marriott (entry and mf's) vrs combo entrants, I probably would choose DRI's. However, I'd probably have neither if I wasn't already engaged.


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## geist1223

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Was that Hawaii Collection?  Hawaii Collection supposedly sells for more $/point than US .



Yes Hawaiian Collection. We bought Point at Poipu. This was our first and so far only DRI Purchase. Also we are temporarily Gold for 2 years and permanently Silver. We also have Club Select/Combination with our Worldmark. I can make 2 Worldmark Reservations in DRI's name using 14000 Worldmark Points and get 15000 DRI Points into my DRI Account.


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## pedro47

What is the average cost per point  to belong to DRI "The Club?"


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## artringwald

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Was that Hawaii Collection?  Hawaii Collection supposedly sells for more $/point than US Collection.
> 
> Every time we say "No, thank you" when they throw out the initial price, soon thereafter the presenter goes to review our account info, and finds some previous offer which we declined and for some reason is still valid even though we were very explicitly told that the offer would never be available to us.  This time they found an offer for us at about $3.30/point that we first turned down about eight years ago.  Last year they dredged up that offer again, and tried to get us to buy 10,000 points to get to Gold, which still would have been more than $30k. We said no, as the sales person professed astonishment that we would turn down such an outrageous deal when the retail price for those same points was nearly $100k.
> 
> This year they "discovered" that that offer hadn't been properly closed out in their system, and could possibly be reactivated.  They said that we could have purchased 3500 points under that offer, and if we had also enrolled one of our other timeshare ownerships in the Club Combinations program we could have gotten 6500 points toward membership level, giving the 10,000 additional we needed for Gold membership.  Since that wasn't explained to us last year, they would be willing to petition the main office to reopen the offer if we submitted such a request.
> 
> It was worth it to us to get to a Gold at that price point so we did it.  So effectively the price to get into Gold dropped from $105K to $12K.



Now that you're Gold, let us know if the Preferred Unit Reservation works at P@P to get the exact unit you like. Do you have points in the Hawaii Collection or just deeded weeks in the Club?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

artringwald said:


> Now that you're Gold, let us know if the Preferred Unit Reservation works at P@P to get the exact unit you like. Do you have points in the Hawaii Collection or just deeded weeks in the Club?



I'll find out shortly how it works, as that was a key factor for us to move to Gold. 

As of now we have both a deeded week in the Club and Hawaii Collection points in the Club.  Three of our now adult children are now vacationing with us regularly in Hawaii, and they like the Point. So we have expanded our ownership to be able to reserve at least two units at a time, for up to ten days.  With our new Gold membership upgrades we can get everyone into ocean view or ocean front units. And by being able to select units we hope to get everyone in close proximity so we can move from unit to unit. 

The proof will be in the pudding, as we try this out.  I  made the first reservation for next year today at the Club, and they told me I needed to contact the resort regarding room reservations. I called the resort but couldn't get through today.  Will try again tomorrow, but at this particular juncture I'm mostly just trying to understand how the process works.


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## artringwald

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> As of now we have both a deeded week in the Club and Hawaii Collection points in the Club.



Are the deeded week points limited to booking 12 months out and the collection points limited to 13 months out? Can you see a difference in how many points of each are available when you book online? Just wondering in case I ever want to try and get my resale weeks into the Club so I could get to Gold.


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## winger

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ...
> 
> The proof will be in the pudding, as we try this out.  I  made the first reservation for next year today at the Club, and *they told me I needed to contact the resort regarding room reservations.* I called the resort but couldn't get through today.  Will try again tomorrow, but at this particular juncture I'm mostly just trying to understand how the process works.


They are full of it.  I was told by two resorts to call the Club to open the reservation to place the unit request that way.

After all these years, you'd figure they would figure out how to effectively train their reps correctly. 

I would be interested in what you find out.


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## winger

artringwald said:


> ...Just wondering in case I ever want to try and get my resale weeks into the Club so I could get to Gold.


Art - DRI has demonstrated time and time again they erode elite benefits whenever they feel like it. I would recommend you seriously consider whether to put more money into this to get to Gold, if 'promised' benefits is the driving factor for you.


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## gjw007

artringwald said:


> Now that you're Gold, let us know if the Preferred Unit Reservation works at P@P to get the exact unit you like. Do you have points in the Hawaii Collection or just deeded weeks in the Club?



I have used the Preferred Unit reservation when i went to Maui.  I made the the reservation online.  There will be a question if you want to use your preferred unit.  If you select yes, you will see a selection of units available and select the one you like.  Not all units were available as they may have been fixed weeks or others may have chosen them before i did


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## artringwald

gjw007 said:


> I have used the Preferred Unit reservation when i went to Maui.  I made the the reservation online.  There will be a question if you want to use your preferred unit.  If you select yes, you will see a selection of units available and select the one you like.  Not all units were available as they may have been fixed weeks or others may have chosen them before i did



That's exactly how I'd like it to work at P@P.


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## winger

gjw007 said:


> I have used the Preferred Unit reservation when i went to Maui.  I made the the reservation online.  There will be a question if you want to use your preferred unit.  If you select yes, you will see a selection of units available and select the one you like.  Not all units were available as they may have been fixed weeks or others may have chosen them before i did


Are you able to see any availability for the deluxe ocean front units fire the Maui property? I cannot.


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## gjw007

winger said:


> Are you able to see any availability for the deluxe ocean front units fire the Maui property? I cannot.



I had made reservations for the deluxe ocean front unit at kbc and selected a full ocean view (1010 i believe was the unit but i would have to check to be sure, attached panoramic view from my unit).  None of the corner front units were available.   I had stayed previously in a a deluxe ocean front (1214) but i considered it to be a partial ocean front as i had an ocean view but i also had a mointain view as the unit was not directly facing the ocean but was on the side of the building.

I can check dates if you like


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## Poobah

*P@P Inventories*

As a P@P deeded owner (four weeks) I can make my reservation 12 months in advance or, more accurately, 360 days advance. I do not participate in the DRI Club, Trust, or whatever, but as the previous post said they can reserve 13 months out. It is my understanding, unless things have changed the 13 months out provides no advantage over the deeded owner's 12 months, because the rooms come out of different inventories.

The only advantage is whose inventory has the most primo units. Deed owners are essentially all "equal". DRI created a "caste system" based on your (spend)  level like a Frequent Flyer Program. I can only assume there is a "bumping process" in the DRI inventories when it comes to reserving the primo units.

Cheers,

Paul


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## kalima

*Deeded week & points contracts....13 mth booking*

fyi.....if you are a multiple contract owner (I have a deeded week and also some points at my home resort) you can book 13 months in advance for your week as well of course as your points.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Poobah said:


> As a P@P deeded owner (four weeks) I can make my reservation 12 months in advance or, more accurately, 360 days advance. I do not participate in the DRI Club, Trust, or whatever, but as the previous post said they can reserve 13 months out. It is my understanding, unless things have changed the 13 months out provides no advantage over the deeded owner's 12 months, because the rooms come out of different inventories.
> 
> The only advantage is whose inventory has the most primo units. Deed owners are essentially all "equal". DRI created a "caste system" based on your (spend)  level like a Frequent Flyer Program. I can only assume there is a "bumping process" in the DRI inventories when it comes to reserving the primo units.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Paul


I've done a bit of checking of the ability to reserve specific units at Poipu.  So far, every time I have tried to see what units are available, the selection option has never been offered for OF; only for GV, POV, and OV.


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## singlemalt_18

*New Booking Rights for HI Collection owners*

Haven't been around here for some time... but just returned from week at KBC and a week at the Point. Upon Friday check-in at KBC, the push for an update started with a $100 dining bribe, but we remained indifferent. Over the next day and a half they continued to get us to bite, by upping the dining card amount to $150; finally we were offered $200, so we agreed IF we could get it done that day (Sunday) since it was a rain-out. So for $200 in dining cash, we were bought.

Naturally the "no more than 55 minutes" turned out to be about 2 hours, but for $200 in the rain it was worth signing away our rights to yet ANOTHER previous rate offer that was mysteriously "not properly closed out" in their system.

We did however learn something that we were unaware of, and very pleased to hear. Apparently for Hawaii Collection owners, the 13 month booking window has been expanded to include properties in the CA Collection. This adds about a dozen or so properties including Tahoe from the list we were shown. (It was also made clear that CA owners DO NOT have reciprocal rights for Hawaii.)

I couldn't quickly find anything on this previously discussed here... Has anyone else come across any info on this change?

Joe


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## Michael1991

I would say that this is only partly true. The two collections, Hawaii and California, own intervals at the same resorts. Hawaii owners have home collection advantage (13 month window) to the intervals that Hawaii owns, but not to intervals that California owns. Since all the California locations are also in Hawaii, it is true to say "the 13 month booking window ... include properties in the CA Collection."  But to say that the booking window "has been expanded to include [California] properties" is not true.   


Calif. Collection resorts are:
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort
San Luis Bay Inn
Tahoe Beach and Ski Club
Polo Towers Suites
Sedona Summit


Hawaii Collection resorts are: 
Sedona Summit Resort 
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort 
Tahoe Beach and Ski Club 
San Luis Bay Inn 
Palm Canyon Resort and Spa 
Ka’anapali Beach Club 
The Point at Poipu 
Cancun Resort Las Vegas
Polo Towers Villas
Polo Towers Suite
Cedar Breaks Lodge


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## donnsuz

We went on a "one hour" (which took three hours) update in Kona a couple of weeks ago. After holding out we also were offered $200 in resort credit. We had racked up quite a tab at the resort restaurant so this worked out for us. We were offered 1000 points and the "right" to move our 50,000 US Collection points over to the Hawaii Collection for the bargain basement price of $30,000. Their argument was that US Collection owners would soon not be able to trade into Hawaii Collection properties. We turned this down and still ended up getting talked into buying a Sampler for $3000. I'm pretty sure we got ripped off royally with this one. We really want to take extended family to Hawaii next year and after their scare tactics I wasn't sure we'd be able to get in, thus the Sampler purchase. We KNOW BETTER than to suck into their ploys but we seem to keep doing it - and then often regret it later.


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## post-it

donnsuz said:


> We went on a "one hour" (which took three hours) update in Kona a couple of weeks ago. After holding out we also were offered $200 in resort credit. We had racked up quite a tab at the resort restaurant so this worked out for us. We were offered 1000 points and the "right" to move our 50,000 US Collection points over to the Hawaii Collection for the bargain basement price of $30,000. Their argument was that US Collection owners would soon not be able to trade into Hawaii Collection properties. We turned this down and still ended up getting talked into buying a Sampler for $3000. I'm pretty sure we got ripped off royally with this one. We really want to take extended family to Hawaii next year and after their scare tactics I wasn't sure we'd be able to get in, thus the Sampler purchase. We KNOW BETTER than to suck into their ploys but we seem to keep doing it - and then often regret it later.



Been there done that!  We also purchased a small amount of points (not sampler) since we're short enough points to be able to stay in a 2 bedroom if necessary.  Went home and rescinded the contract.

We did come across many couples that also purchased the Sampler though, 15,000 pts. for around $3000.00.  Did they tell you which resorts you can book with the sampler?


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## RLS50

donnsuz said:


> We went on a "one hour" (which took three hours) update in Kona a couple of weeks ago. After holding out we also were offered $200 in resort credit. We had racked up quite a tab at the resort restaurant so this worked out for us. We were offered 1000 points and the "right" to move our 50,000 US Collection points over to the Hawaii Collection for the bargain basement price of $30,000. Their argument was that US Collection owners would soon not be able to trade into Hawaii Collection properties. We turned this down and still ended up getting talked into buying a Sampler for $3000. I'm pretty sure we got ripped off royally with this one. We really want to take extended family to Hawaii next year and after their scare tactics I wasn't sure we'd be able to get in, thus the Sampler purchase. We KNOW BETTER than to suck into their ploys but we seem to keep doing it - and then often regret it later.


Could I ask a question here?

Why would DRI expect anybody to spend another $30K for the right to use 50K points they already own?   How could they just arbitrarily switch up what collections you can trade in to?   It is one thing to charge more points for a stay, or up MF's related to points, but to entirely cut off a selection of Diamond resorts unless you pay to convert your existing points so that you can now use them for those specific resorts?   So now the Diamond plan is that you have to pay additional money to even use points you already own within their network for the "better" resorts?  

I know I don't understand the DRI system like everybody else, but I am trying to figure it out since they bought Gold Key.  

Honestly, that deal you outlined above (on the surface) offends me.   That seems like blackmail to me.   Then again that could be because I know nothing about DRI and don't understand all the Pros and Cons.

But if I already owned 50K DRI points and they told me that I was going to have to give them another $30K or else my access to Hawaii was eventually going to get cut off if I didn't pay them more money, I would walk out and just go buy a Gold oceanfront Marriott week in Hawaii (or two).

JMO, and apologies in advance for my ignorance about the DRI system.


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## Michael1991

When Diamond sells points, those points are deposited into a trust fund. Diamond calls these trust funds "collections". There are eight trust fund collections and currently points are actively sold in four of them. Owners in a trust fund have an advanced booking window of 13 months on intervals owned by that trust fund and a 10 month window for intervals owned by the other seven trusts. 

One of the trust funds is "Hawaii". It holds deeds in two Hawaii resorts and nine other mainland resorts. Owners in, for example, the "US Collection" (the large mainland trust fund) have a 10 month advance booking to the two Hawaii resorts while owners in the "Hawaii Collection" have a 13 month window. 

Sales reps in Hawaii try to convince US owners to convert to Hawaii ownership in order to get the 13 month booking window. I can't tell you why, but there are owners willing to pay for this.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

I'll weigh in with some comments on how this all works.  I would not say that DRI sales personnel lie; I would say that they don't always provide the full perspective.  Or, they say the truth, but it's not the whole truth.

******

The first point to understand is that each individual resort has a timeshare program that defines the usage rights for the owners of units at the resort.  This program governs whether a unit is owned by one of the collections or by an individual owner.

A second key point to remember is that ownership in a Collection and membership in the Club are not the same thing.  A person can be an owner  in a trust without being a member of the Club.  Many people conflate these two, often aided and abetted by obfuscating sales staff. 

A "collection" is a trust that owns a certain number of units at a resort.  The trust has the usage rights associated with the units that it owns - no more and no less. The trust then makes those usage rights available to owners who are members of that trust. But the usage right is limited to what the trust owns.  For example, if the "Regency Collection" owns a total of 200 weeks at Villas Extraordinaire, then that is the number of usage weeks at the that can be booked through Regency Collection holdings. 

At the resort, inventory is allocated to Regency Collection in proportion to its holdings.  To keep it simple let's assume there is one check-in day and all stays are 7-days.  200 units then represents four units each check-in day.  So for each check-in day, four units would be assigned to Regency Collection; the remainder would remain for use by the owners who are not part of Regency Collection. 

Now let's bring the Club into the picture.  When an owner in a trust is part of the Club the owner surrenders the usage right associated with their ownership to the Club.  So if you are a Regency Collection owner who is a member of the Club you can no longer make reservations with a Regency Collection resort as a Regency Collection owner; you can only reserve at a Regency Collection resort as a Club member.  This might seem subtle, but it's a significant difference. 

Since not all Regency Collection owners are part of the Club, that portion of inventory assigned to the Regency Collection gets split again, with a portion of the Regency Collection assigned to the Club that is proportional to the fraction of Regency Collection owners that are members in the Club. For discussion purposes lets assume that 75% of Regency Collection owners are members of the Club.  So the Club then has rights to 150 weeks per year at Villas Extraordinaire, representing three check-in days each week.

Regency Collection owners who are members of the Club can then use their Home Resort Advantage to access those weeks at Villas Extraordinaire that have been assigned to the Club starting 13 months before check-in.  Any of those 150 weeks that have not been booked 10 months in advance are then available to all Club members.  But note that the other 50 weeks per year that have been assigned to Regency Collection members who are not part of the Club never appear in Club inventory, because the Club has no right to access those weeks.

Then, if the resort has inventory that is held by different collections, each of those collections will have its set of reservation rights, which again will be further parsed based on what fraction of the Collection is owned by Club members.

So, at a specific resort you can wind up with an inventory control system that looks like the following:

weeks that are owned fee simple by owners who are not members of the Club
weeks that are owned by owners in Collection A who are not members of the Club
weeks that are owned by Collection B  who are not members of the Club (iterate as needed for all Collections that include holdings at the resort)
Deeded weeks for owners who are part of the Club
Collection ownerships that for owners who are part of the Club
And if there are specific view categories or usage seasons, then the additional allocations of inventory need to be made on that basis. 

******

So in the sales pitch buyers are told that as Club members they have reservation rights to all of the resorts that are in the Regency Collection 13 months before check-in.  That's technically true, but what the prospects are not told is that their access to the resorts is limited to the amount of inventory at the resort that has actually been assigned to the Club.  The sales pitch is designed to make prospects believe that all of the inventory at the resort is available to Club members, when that is hardly the case.  

The whole system is designed solely for marketing purposes, and to make buyers think they are getting more than they really are. A similar thing happens with all of the properties that are "affiliate" options.  In many cases there is only a minuscule amount of inventory available - and the associated point values don't represent any bargain over generally available rates.  But the relationships do let sales staff talk about all of the wonderful things you can do with your points.


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## RLS50

Just wanted to say thanks to those 2 replies.  That is very helpful in better understanding the system.

I still don't understand why any DRI owner with existing points would pay DRI an additional $20K-$30K (or higher) just to secure the right to be able to use their already existing points to go to Hawaii (if not already part of the Hawaii Collection).   It sounds like DRI sales reps told the poster who brought this up that soon they wouldn't be able to use to their 50K points for Hawaii at all...that access to Hawaii was going to be taken away from US Collection owners entirely at some point in the near future...not just the early reservation part.  That was what I objected to.

If Hawaii is hard to get in the DRI system, why not just buy a unit you own in Hawaii as a separate plan of action?  I see Marriott Gold and Platinum weeks in Hawaii at minimum ocean view and some oceanfront for $15K-$30K.  One could buy a unit (or two) exactly where they want and have to keep or trade any year they want...and have access to all the Marriott resorts in the world via trade.   That would give an owner access to both DRI and Marriott resorts.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

RLS50 said:


> If Hawaii is hard to get in the DRI system, why not just buy a unit you own in Hawaii as a separate plan of action?



Yep.  You should be able to acquire deeded weeks at Ka'anapali or Po'ipu or a 15,000 point Hawaii Collection ownership for transfer costs only.  People are giving them back to DRI in the deedback program.

Note that if you own a deeded week instead of a trust interest, you avoid paying the trust management fee, but you can only reserve at that specific resort.  Also if there is a special assessment at the resort you own, you will pay a full share; if your resort is among the higher maintenance fee resorts, then your annual cost might be higher than if you had an equivalent ownership in the trust.


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## johnrsrq

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I'll weigh in with some comments on how this all works.  I would not say that DRI sales personnel lie; I would say that they don't always provide the full perspective.  Or, they say the truth, but it's not the whole truth.
> 
> ******
> 
> The first point to understand is that each individual resort has a timeshare program that defines the usage rights for the owners of units at the resort.  This program governs whether a unit is owned by one of the collections or by an individual owner.
> 
> A second key point to remember is that ownership in a Collection and membership in the Club are not the same thing.  A person can be an owner  in a trust without being a member of the Club.  Many people conflate these two, often aided and abetted by obfuscating sales staff.
> 
> A "collection" is a trust that owns a certain number of units at a resort.  The trust has the usage rights associated with the units that it owns - no more and no less. The trust then makes those usage rights available to owners who are members of that trust. But the usage right is limited to what the trust owns.  For example, if the "Regency Collection" owns a total of 200 weeks at Villas Extraordinaire, then that is the number of usage weeks at the that can be booked through Regency Collection holdings.
> 
> At the resort, inventory is allocated to Regency Collection in proportion to its holdings.  To keep it simple let's assume there is one check-in day and all stays are 7-days.  200 units then represents four units each check-in day.  So for each check-in day, four units would be assigned to Regency Collection; the remainder would remain for use by the owners who are not part of Regency Collection.
> 
> Now let's bring the Club into the picture.  When an owner in a trust is part of the Club the owner surrenders the usage right associated with their ownership to the Club.  So if you are a Regency Collection owner who is a member of the Club you can no longer make reservations with a Regency Collection resort as a Regency Collection owner; you can only reserve at a Regency Collection resort as a Club member.  This might seem subtle, but it's a significant difference.
> 
> Since not all Regency Collection owners are part of the Club, that portion of inventory assigned to the Regency Collection gets split again, with a portion of the Regency Collection assigned to the Club that is proportional to the fraction of Regency Collection owners that are members in the Club. For discussion purposes lets assume that 75% of Regency Collection owners are members of the Club.  So the Club then has rights to 150 weeks per year at Villas Extraordinaire, representing three check-in days each week.
> 
> Regency Collection owners who are members of the Club can then use their Home Resort Advantage to access those weeks at Villas Extraordinaire that have been assigned to the Club starting 13 months before check-in.  Any of those 150 weeks that have not been booked 10 months in advance are then available to all Club members.  But note that the other 50 weeks per year that have been assigned to Regency Collection members who are not part of the Club never appear in Club inventory, because the Club has no right to access those weeks.
> 
> Then, if the resort has inventory that is held by different collections, each of those collections will have its set of reservation rights, which again will be further parsed based on what fraction of the Collection is owned by Club members.
> 
> So, at a specific resort you can wind up with an inventory control system that looks like the following:
> 
> weeks that are owned fee simple by owners who are not members of the Club
> weeks that are owned by owners in Collection A who are not members of the Club
> weeks that are owned by Collection B  who are not members of the Club (iterate as needed for all Collections that include holdings at the resort)
> Deeded weeks for owners who are part of the Club
> Collection ownerships that for owners who are part of the Club
> And if there are specific view categories or usage seasons, then the additional allocations of inventory need to be made on that basis.
> 
> ******
> 
> So in the sales pitch buyers are told that as Club members they have reservation rights to all of the resorts that are in the Regency Collection 13 months before check-in.  That's technically true, but what the prospects are not told is that their access to the resorts is limited to the amount of inventory at the resort that has actually been assigned to the Club.  The sales pitch is designed to make prospects believe that all of the inventory at the resort is available to Club members, when that is hardly the case.
> 
> The whole system is designed solely for marketing purposes, and to make buyers think they are getting more than they really are. A similar thing happens with all of the properties that are "affiliate" options.  In many cases there is only a minuscule amount of inventory available - and the associated point values don't represent any bargain over generally available rates.  But the relationships do let sales staff talk about all of the wonderful things you can do with your points.



excellent post. thanks for the refresher. 

13 month windows trading among TUG FB members when the two parties are looking at other collections. Sometimes affiliates have availability 13 months out.  Such as Summer East Coast Prime Oceanfront for a prime Hawaiian res,. guests.


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## donnsuz

*Feel stupid!*

The wheeling and dealing of it all is definitely enough to make you feel stupid. I wish that I had the full understanding that Troglodyte has of this information. We started our timeshare adventure about 20 years ago with one small deeded property. Over the many years of "updates" we now have 50,000 points with DRI. Every time we update (aka spend big bucks) it makes perfectly good sense. I don't feel that we are normally stupid or financially inept people, but now I feel that we have been duped. The bottom line now is that I have become a TUG (and other boards) stalker  I'm learning more and more. I'm very happy we didn't bite on the $30,000 to convert to Hawaii collection. It did feel like blackmail. 

My next adventure is trying to decide if we should divest ourselves of some of these points (we have 5 different contracts) to lessen our MF and then go in search of a couple of inexpensive deeded weeks at our favorite areas to purchase instead. We really do enjoy timeshares, but I want to get the biggest bang for my buck and quit lining DRI's pockets.


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## RLS50

donnsuz said:


> The wheeling and dealing of it all is definitely enough to make you feel stupid. I wish that I had the full understanding that Troglodyte has of this information. We started our timeshare adventure about 20 years ago with one small deeded property. Over the many years of "updates" we now have 50,000 points with DRI. Every time we update (aka spend big bucks) it makes perfectly good sense. I don't feel that we are normally stupid or financially inept people, but now I feel that we have been duped. The bottom line now is that I have become a TUG (and other boards) stalker  I'm learning more and more. I'm very happy we didn't bite on the $30,000 to convert to Hawaii collection. It did feel like blackmail.
> 
> My next adventure is trying to decide if we should divest ourselves of some of these points (we have 5 different contracts) to lessen our MF and then go in search of a couple of inexpensive deeded weeks at our favorite areas to purchase instead. We really do enjoy timeshares, but I want to get the biggest bang for my buck and quit lining DRI's pockets.


You are definitely not stupid.

I can speak for us and say that when we finally bought from a Developer, I knew we were overpaying but I did not fully appreciate how much.  Although we had turned down other timeshare offers in previous years, we finally bought because I mistakenly believed that somehow making sure we bought oceanfront units were going to make the upfront expense more worth it.

And some of the perks they threw into our deal were not as valuable as they made them sound.  They never actually "lied" to us, but in my ignorance I did not know the right questions to ask to fully understand the details of what they were throwing in the deal.

I knew about the resale market in general, but I had no idea there were resources like TUG to get educated on so many different timeshare systems and how so many companies work their own systems (both retail and resale).

So at this point we are just trying to make up the lost ground and make sure our investment works for us to the fullest possible extent it can.   And I say that knowing that since we bought from a developer originally, our timeshare vacations will never provide the financial ROI that owners will get who bought 100% resale.

But to your specific example, if the DRI reps really told you what you outlined, I personally would not be motivated to spend another dollar with DRI.  It makes me very wary of any system where one can already own so many points and still be told they need to spend significantly more money to fully benefit from the system.   Where does it end?


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## Michael1991

RLS50 said:


> if the DRI reps really told you what you outlined, I personally would not be motivated to spend another dollar with DRI.  It makes me very wary of any system where one can already own so many points and still be told they need to spend significantly more money to fully benefit from the system.   Where does it end?



This kind of story is not uncommon in the two Facebook groups for Diamond owners. Moreover, if a Hawaii owner is in Florida, or other locations where US Collection points are sold, they are often told their points will not have full benefits at mainland resorts. The common theme from the sale reps is: whatever you currently own is a mistake and you should spend more money to fix it.


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## Michael1991

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Since not all Regency Collection owners are part of the Club, that portion of inventory assigned to the Regency Collection gets split again, with a portion of the Regency Collection assigned to the Club that is proportional to the fraction of Regency Collection owners that are members in the Club. ...



How is the split of intervals between those belonging exclusively to the Collection and those given to the Club made? Does DRI take all the plum weeks for the Club and leave the lemons for the resale owners? Or are there some rules governing this split (rules other than Diamond has full discretion)?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Michael1991 said:


> How is the split of intervals between those belonging exclusively to the Collection and those given to the Club made? Does DRI take all the plum weeks for the Club and leave the lemons for the resale owners? Or are there some rules governing this split (rules other than Diamond has full discretion)?



In my experience (at Point at Poipu) the divisions are made on a uniform basis throughout the year, in proportion to the fraction of ownership of each group.  So if 40% of the ocean view deeds are owned in the Hawaii Collection, then 40% of ocean view inventory gets assigned to the trust throughout the year.  Then, if we assume that 75% of trust ownership is also in the Club, then the Club winds up with 75% of that 40% inventory of the inventory, again on a uniform basis.

If you listen to the sales people, they will try to persuade you that ultimately 99+% of the inventory will wind up in the Club, so of necessity if you don't join the Club you will find yourself left with only a shriveling fraction of inventory available for check-in. First off, I don't think it will ever reach that point.  There will always be a significant fraction of owners who will choose to not be part of the club.


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## artringwald

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In my experience (at Point at Poipu) the divisions are made on a uniform basis throughout the year, in proportion to the fraction of ownership of each group.  So if 40% of the ocean view deeds are owned in the Hawaii Collection, then 40% of ocean view inventory gets assigned to the trust throughout the year.  Then, if we assume that 75% of trust ownership is also in the Club, then the Club winds up with 75% of that 40% inventory of the inventory, again on a uniform basis.
> 
> If you listen to the sales people, they will try to persuade you that ultimately 99+% of the inventory will wind up in the Club, so of necessity if you don't join the Club you will find yourself left with only a shriveling fraction of inventory available for check-in. First off, I don't think it will ever reach that point.  There will always be a significant fraction of owners who will choose to not be part of the club.



As of 2011, the distribution at Point at Poipu was:

deeded owners  63%
trust 35%
DRI  2%

I'll be attending the annual owner's meeting in February, so I'll ask for updated data.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

artringwald said:


> As of 2011, the distribution at Point at Poipu was:
> 
> deeded owners  63%
> trust 35%
> DRI  2%
> 
> I'll be attending the annual owner's meeting in February, so I'll ask for updated data.



Trust ownership is trending up.  As I recall at the time the water intrusion assessment was made trust was about 45%.


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## gmidkiff

*[Advertising Deleted]*

[Advertising deleted - please review the forum rules before posting again.]


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## bobpark56

*Wow!*



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> We had our "Owners Update" in Poipu this week.  According to the sales rep, the minimum block of points they sell in the Hawaii Collection is 11,500 points, at more than $100,000. <snip>.



Wow! We paid $15,424 for 10,000 Hawaii Collection points back in May, 2014. seemed a bit high, but we splurged.


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## tshanks1981

*Feel like I was taken for a fool...*

So in 2013 my family and I were on vacation in Florida (Mickey Mouse House) and got rained out so we decided to take up the free timeshare viewing at the resort we were staying in. It is a DRI owned resort, and they offered us free "whatever" to come listen in. Long story short, we bought the sampler package. In 2014 we went to Hawaii on the sampler package and had to yet again listen to the 55 minute ordeal. They threw out the whole pitch and I was not interested at all. They wanted us to get the Silver package at $9.30 per point, for a grand total of about $140k. When I finished choking on the soda I was drinking, I politely declined. He went to process our paperwork to leave when someone came from the back and asked how we managed to make it to Hawaii on a Sampler package from the US collection. I didn't know why he was asking, and I just told them I booked it and we came, that simple...he acted in disbelief and explained to me that since we were on a Sampler, we were to be treated as owners and we were allowed to purchase our points at the point value at which we originally were given in Florida, about $2.95 per point. We did the math, and decided to proceed. We bought the minimum, 7500 points and went on about our day. Oh lucky us, we got to choose a dream vacation package for free! All we had to do was listen to a 55 minute owners update when we arrived...we booked our dream vacation back to Hawaii for the 5 days...while doing the owner's update, she tried to get us to buy the minimum 11,500 points for over $9.00 per point (again) and we declined once again. Same scenario, guy came from the back and asked us to sign some paperwork to waive the price freeze from the previous year. evidently, we were there a week before the price freeze expired, which made us eligible to purchase the remaining 7500 points needed to get to silver status rather than the minimum 11,500...again, at the $2.95 per point. 

Now. I felt like we got the deal of a lifetime....twice!! After finding this website, I feel like I have been shafted---so much negativity from people about DRI and their sales tactics. Does anyone really pay $9.00+ for each point??? 

I just want to go on vacation and not feel like I'm being violated...


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## T-Dot-Traveller

*Enjoy the vacations & skip "updates"*

Dear tshanks 1981: as the saying goes ( from a poll done here ) - half of all TUG members bought at least one TS from the developer As you can see from earlier in the thread Steve Nelson/ T_R_O. bought additional points from DRI to get gold status and he seems to know more about the DRI system than they do  .Learn to use what you own to the max  so you enjoy all your future vacations .

Your " feelings " about the sell process will diminish if you have great vacations
and keep reading TUG .


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## T_R_Oglodyte

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Dear tshanks 1981: as the saying goes ( from a poll done here ) - half of all TUG members bought at least one TS from the developer As you can see from earlier in the thread Steve Nelson/ T_R_O. bought additional points from DRI to get gold status and he seems to know more about the DRI system than they do  .Learn to use what you own to the max  so you enjoy all your future vacations .
> 
> Your " feelings " about the sell process will diminish if you have great vacations
> and keep reading TUG .


I probably wouldn't have made the purchases myself, but DW likes the system. My reticence has enabled us to at least drive the prices down to more tolerable levels. 

We have gotten a lot of benefit out of it. Most of our children like the Point at Poipu, and with the birth of our granddaughter we are now having three generation family vacations together.  Being in the club has given us flexibility to accommodate their schedules.  In addition, when our daughter got married on St. Martin, we used the Club to secure rooms for many of the people traveling to the wedding. 

As long as it works, we will use it, especially if our kids keep coming back year with us.  That's really what we were buying with our purchase and the annual fees.


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## ccwu

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I probably wouldn't have made the purchases myself, but DW likes the system. My reticence has enabled us to at least drive the prices down to more tolerable levels.
> 
> We have gotten a lot of benefit out of it. Most of our children like the Point at Poipu, and with the birth of our granddaughter we are now having three generation family vacations together.  Being in the club has given us flexibility to accommodate their schedules.  In addition, when our daughter got married on St. Martin, we used the Club to secure rooms for many of the people traveling to the wedding.
> 
> As long as it works, we will use it, especially if our kids keep coming back year with us.  That's really what we were buying with our purchase and the annual fees.



I am DRI platinum elite member.  I have to say that I enjoyed every trip to DRI resorts by myself or with friends and family.  Since I own and upgrade in Kaanapali Beach resort,  I travel most to KBC.  But recently, I am annoyed.  I tried to check 2017 out.  I always reserve 13 months in advance.  I found very few inventories for 13 months in advance at KBC.  I wonder what happened.   I have always reserve an ocean view to upgrade to deluxe ocean view. In the past the upgrades were free.  Starting two years ago, I had to pay upgrade fees.  Now the only availability is garden view.   :annoyed:


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## winger

ccwu said:


> I am DRI platinum elite member.  I have to say that I enjoyed every trip to DRI resorts by myself or with friends and family.  Since I own and upgrade in Kaanapali Beach resort,  I travel most to KBC.  But recently, I am annoyed.  I tried to check 2017 out.  I always reserve 13 months in advance.  I found very few inventories for 13 months in advance at KBC.  I wonder what happened.   I have always reserve an ocean view to upgrade to deluxe ocean view. In the past the upgrades were free.  Starting two years ago, I had to pay upgrade fees.  Now the only availability is garden view.   :annoyed:


 Have you seen other platinum benefits 'degraded'? My guess is there are more downgrades coming...


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## Emi

It seems like Diamond has an ever moving target to suck owners into upgrading. We bought an every other year at Poipu in 1999, then a DOV week on resale at KBC. Six years ago we joined the Club by transferring our Eoy poipu and purchasing 4000 points in the Hawaii Trust collection. We are now Silver elite status. Last November we attended a presentation at Poipu and the salesman pulled the same story how the refusal we signed somehow got lost in the system and we can still get the $3.35 per point price if we purchase 10000 points to gain gold status.  Silver is now "worthless".. After refusing offer a few times, we only have to purchase 4500 points and we can do Combination of one of our other resorts to get to the 30000 points gold status requirement. The Club Select benefit has worked for us since we deposit 2 to 3 of our other resorts to get the Diamond points needed for extended stays in Hawaii. Question is, if we upgrade to Gold and use Combination of one of our resorts, do we lose the Club Select benefit which they claim no longer exists?

We purchased the Sampler package to "hold" the price. It is not available to reserve at KBC and limited at Poipu which is not even on the allowed list. We did get a November reservation this year for Poipu with the Sampler by calling the reservation representative.

We were told 2 benefits to upgrade to Gold which appear to be "bull" after further independent research
1) 30/30 program 1/3 of points can get 30 cents per point for Travel value. Since maintenance fee is less than 30 cents per point, it's a slight discount to convert points to travel dollars. Seems to work only for high end, high cost travel such as African safari.

2)"  can get upgrade free on unit and a rebate check for dfference in points" in other words, use garden view unit for 8500 points, can upgrade to ocean view 11500 and get 3000 points credit to use for travel. NO SUCH THING There is a benefit call Points Redemption which you can redeem your unused points for 8 cents per point for Silver status. Think it's more for Gold status. What the salesman's twisted words mean is that Instead of spending 11500 for that oceanview unit, you can reserve a gardenview unit, save 3000 points and turn that in for cash. no such thing as free points for travel.

Attended another sales presentation last week at KBC with no intention to buy because it would forfeit our Sampler package we will be using in November. Another hard sell even though we told them up front we have the Sampler package and only there to get info. Was told benefits changing, no more 30/30 limitation. Can get unlimited points redemption. Gold status changing to 50000 points requirement shortly. Diamond very good with confusing owners by constantly changing phantom benefits.

Perhaps you knowledgable tuggers can help me understand some of these Gold benefits mentioned above. What is the real benefit to upgrading to Gold? Will I lose my Club Select if I upgrade?

Thank you very much


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## artringwald

Emi said:


> It seems like Diamond has an ever moving target to suck owners into upgrading. We bought an every other year at Poipu in 1999, then a DOV week on resale at KBC. Six years ago we joined the Club by transferring our Eoy poipu and purchasing 4000 points in the Hawaii Trust collection. We are now Silver elite status. Last November we attended a presentation at Poipu and the salesman pulled the same story how the refusal we signed somehow got lost in the system and we can still get the $3.35 per point price if we purchase 10000 points to gain gold status.  Silver is now "worthless".. After refusing offer a few times, we only have to purchase 4500 points and we can do Combination of one of our other resorts to get to the 30000 points gold status requirement. The Club Select benefit has worked for us since we deposit 2 to 3 of our other resorts to get the Diamond points needed for extended stays in Hawaii. Question is, if we upgrade to Gold and use Combination of one of our resorts, do we lose the Club Select benefit which they claim no longer exists?
> 
> We purchased the Sampler package to "hold" the price. It is not available to reserve at KBC and limited at Poipu which is not even on the allowed list. We did get a November reservation this year for Poipu with the Sampler by calling the reservation representative.
> 
> We were told 2 benefits to upgrade to Gold which appear to be "bull" after further independent research
> 1) 30/30 program 1/3 of points can get 30 cents per point for Travel value. Since maintenance fee is less than 30 cents per point, it's a slight discount to convert points to travel dollars. Seems to work only for high end, high cost travel such as African safari.
> 
> 2)"  can get upgrade free on unit and a rebate check for dfference in points" in other words, use garden view unit for 8500 points, can upgrade to ocean view 11500 and get 3000 points credit to use for travel. NO SUCH THING There is a benefit call Points Redemption which you can redeem your unused points for 8 cents per point for Silver status. Think it's more for Gold status. What the salesman's twisted words mean is that Instead of spending 11500 for that oceanview unit, you can reserve a gardenview unit, save 3000 points and turn that in for cash. no such thing as free points for travel.
> 
> Attended another sales presentation last week at KBC with no intention to buy because it would forfeit our Sampler package we will be using in November. Another hard sell even though we told them up front we have the Sampler package and only there to get info. Was told benefits changing, no more 30/30 limitation. Can get unlimited points redemption. Gold status changing to 50000 points requirement shortly. Diamond very good with confusing owners by constantly changing phantom benefits.
> 
> Perhaps you knowledgable tuggers can help me understand some of these Gold benefits mentioned above. What is the real benefit to upgrading to Gold? Will I lose my Club Select if I upgrade?
> 
> Thank you very much



There's not much sense in going to "owner's updates" if you're not planning on upgrading, because it's hard to trust anything they say. Here's a link to the loyalty benefits that are available for 2016:

https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/US_Benefits-for-All-Members-Revised.pdf

You can also view the document by logging into your account and clicking on "Diamond Loyalty" in the "My Benefits" menu. The benefits certainly seem to change from year to year.

Besides TUG, a very good place to ask questions is the moderated Diamond Resorts Forum. Questions will usually get answered by a DRI employee that knows what they're talking about.


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## nuwermj

Emi said:


> Question is, if we upgrade to Gold and use Combination of one of our resorts, do we lose the Club Select benefit which they claim no longer exists?




"Club Combinations" has replaced "Club Select". The two programs are in most ways the same. The deposit fees for the newer Club Combinations are lower than the Club Select fees. The point values may also be different, but I don't know for sure. If you want to be sure that all of your non-DRI resorts can be deposited, renegotiate so that your existing Club Select units are included in the new Club Combination deal. 

I don't blame your for being skeptical. I've read a lot of stories about salesmen explaining how an upgrade should work but it didn't work that way at all.    

As for the Gold tier, I personally have no interest in the benefits. Resale only for me. But here is the benefit directory. You can look it over and do your own evaluation to see whether the benefits are worth the cost.

https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/US-Member-Benefits-Directory_16.pdf


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## kalima

*Don't do it for the perks*

No way should you buy more points for their silly perks that they offer....they can take them away at any time. Only take more points if you need them for travelling. The sales peoples are lying weasels mostly and quite often don't know what they hell they are talking about. Consider joining our FB page: Diamond Resorts Friends Worldwide


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