# how can travel share end bonus time ?



## easyrider (Sep 12, 2007)

Is travel share a WM or WN thing and can it affect bonus time ?
Thanks


----------



## PA- (Sep 13, 2007)

I think it could, and will have a huge impact.  Here's why:

Remember that ALL new owners are offered TravelShare at no cost up front.  Since the salespeople make a huge deal of TravelShare, it's extremely likely that the vast majority of new Worldmark owners will be TS members.  Since Wyndham is greatly stepping up their sales effort compared to Trendwest, I could envision a day in 5 years when 50% of owners will be Travelshare members.  Don't forget, at the same time, they're aggressively pushing TS on existing owners, so I don't think that 50% number is a stretch.

So let's say within the 28 - 42 day window for FunTime (a TravelShare perk), there's a weekend, or a few weekdays available at a given resort.  Do you think 150,000 owners who are Travelshare members are going to let it go, or is at least one of them going to pick it up on FunTime?  There will always be the possibility of a last minute cancellation inside the 14 day Bonus Time window, but since you take a chance on losing your credits if you cancel inside 30 days, I see that as rare.

With the 30 day cancellation window, there have alway been a lot of cancellations between 30 - 45 days out.  But in the past, those still cost full credits, until it got inside the 14 day Bonus Time window, so there was at least some of them that went untaken until Bonus Time.  Now, there will be few, I fear.  

That's why I feel that Bonus time is being affected by Travelshare.

Another point; Wyndham has now begun introducing new resorts where 51 weeks are sold, rather than the traditional 48 weeks worth of credits.  That could also have a devastating effect on bonues time, with an additional 6% of credits sold per unit.

Now, combine that with the fact that Wyndham is generating as much as 80%more credits per resort by raising the number of credits, and you have the perfect storm.  Yes, the new resorts take more credits, so if every unit was booked, it would not affect bonus time.  But the point is, an unused room/night at  resort that costs 15,000 credits per week can potentially affect bonus time availability by 50% more than a vacant room/night at a 10,000 credit per week resort.

Philip Abdouch


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 13, 2007)

There are always a lot of cancellations inside the 14 day bonus time booking window.  That is not likely to change.  For reservations made within the 90 day window the cancellation date is at 10 days before checkin, so there is no risk of losing your credits by cancelling anywhere up to that point.

I consistently get bonus time by checking frequently inside the 14 day bonus time window and anyone else can too. I posted about that this week.   It's just a matter of owner ed.  Teach the owners how to do it and they can get bonus time too.  Check often, using the WorldMark online reservation site, and book one day at a time when it shows up.  You can patch together bonus time days that way.


----------



## PA- (Sep 13, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> There are always a lot of cancellations inside the 14 day bonus time booking window.  That is not likely to change.  For reservations made within the 90 day window the cancellation date is at 10 days before checkin, so there is no risk of losing your credits by cancelling anywhere up to that point.
> 
> I consistently get bonus time by checking frequently inside the 14 day bonus time window and anyone else can too. I posted about that this week.   It's just a matter of owner ed.  Teach the owners how to do it and they can get bonus time too.  Check often, using the WorldMark online reservation site, and book one day at a time when it shows up.  You can patch together bonus time days that way.




So, going back to the original poster's question, which was "can TravelShare affect bonus time"?

Is your answer, no it can't?  Or, no, you don't think it will?  Bonus time is much less available now than it was a year ago.  I suppose there could be other explanations.  Got any?

I've gotten a couple of thousands emails in the last few weeks, since the ballots came out, from long time owners who think they have less bonus time availability than they use to have.  Maybe I should tell them the only problem is owner's ed?


----------



## PA- (Sep 13, 2007)

Perhaps you should also offer the disclaimer that you live in Colorado, along with 1 or 2 percent of owners, and not California, Oregon or Washington, along with the other 98%.


----------



## LisaH (Sep 13, 2007)

I definitely see a drop in bonus time for CA resorts. One example: WM had offered inventory special at Windsor in the months of Oct and Nov for several years and I had no problem getting units there in the past three years. This year, it's no longer on the inventory specials list any more. This is just one example and I have quite a few others since I track the bonus time availability for some of these Nor Cal resorts.


----------



## PA- (Sep 13, 2007)

LisaH said:


> I definitely see a drop in bonus time for CA resorts. One example: WM had offered inventory special at Windsor in the months of Oct and Nov for several years and I had no problem getting units there in the past three years. This year, it's no longer on the inventory specials list any more. This is just one example and I have quite a few others since I track the bonus time availability for some of these Nor Cal resorts.




Bonus time is less available across the board.  I tried to get Oklahoma this year for a family reunion, not on bonus time, but inside 90 days for less than a week, and it was unavailable.

It could be because Wyndham is blocking out time for Travelshare.  Or it could be because they are renting out to the general public.  Or it could be because Wyndham is blocking out time for "Party Weekends".  Or it could possibly be because they are generating so many more credits per unit.  But whatever the reason, owners are not being benefitted.  I'm happy that Fred is able to get the bonus time he wants.  But I'm unhappy about reduced availability.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 14, 2007)

No disclaimer from me, I am closer to WorldMark resorts than Texas owners.  

I think that it is better to teach the owners how to make the best use of their ownership rather than constantly emphasing the negative.  That's what I do on my site, and that's what I encourage others to do.  A few don't like the positive approach, but based on the email I get a lot of owners do.


----------



## PA- (Sep 14, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> No disclaimer from me, I am closer to WorldMark resorts than Texas owners.
> 
> I think that it is better to teach the owners how to make the best use of their ownership rather than constantly emphasing the negative.  That's what I do on my site, and that's what I encourage others to do.  A few don't like the positive approach, but based on the email I get a lot of owners do.



There's nothing at all wrong with taking the positive approach, and teaching owners how to best utilize their ownership.  I'm all for that, and I don't think any site has come close to www.wmowners.com in educating owners.  But I don't think publicising one's Website answers the original poster's question.  His original question was "how can travelshare end bonus time".  Do you have anything at all to say regarding that question?  How do you think TravelShare can affect or end bonus time?


----------



## PA- (Sep 14, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> No disclaimer from me, I am closer to WorldMark resorts than Texas owners.  ...



My point is, you might find bonus time a little harder to get if you lived where most of the owners live, on the west coast.

I'm making every attempt to keep this on the topic that the original poster asked about.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 14, 2007)

PA- said:


> My point is, you might find bonus time a little harder to get if you lived where most of the owners live, on the west coast.
> 
> I'm making every attempt to keep this on the topic that the original poster asked about.



Can TS affect bonus time?  Anything can affect bonus time.  More and more owners using intense and/or spohisticated means to book bonus time will have a bigger impact than TS.  

The data shows that more bonus time is being booked every year, which means some owners are successful at booking it.  Teaching everyone how to be more successful at getting bonus time will do more good than stressing opinions as to why you can't get bonus time.  That is true no matter where you are located.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Sep 14, 2007)

Fred,

You sound like an apologist for the developer.  Do I have that wrong?

Why can't you just answer the question instead of entangling it with other stuff?

It's one thing to be positive.  It's another thing to ignore or fail to provide good information for potential negatives.  That is just as bad as being too negative.  People just need the truth.  That helps them the most.

It my view, Travelshare probably will have a negative impact on the availability of bonus time.  However, every fun time bonus time reservation should make for one extra prime time reservation during the standard reservation period since fun time reservations are really standard credits just being used for reservations less than 3 months in advance of checkin.  They could have been used for reservations 13 months out.  (well, whatever the equivalent credits should be that is.  It's not technically one for one reservations.   But it is one for one credit).

It seems to me that fun time actually helps owners who book ahead.

Bonus time is just that.  It's bonus time.  It is supposedly the leftovers that nobody wanted.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 14, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Fred,
> 
> You sound like an apologist for the developer.  Do I have that wrong?



An apologist for the developer.  LOL.  I've been called a lot of things but that's a new one. 

I can provide information about how to do something that I know about, in this case book bonus time, or I can provide opinions and speculation on things that may or may not come to pass. In this case I felt that it was better to provide information than opinions.

I know that it is still possible to book bonus time and I am trying to help other owners understand how to do that. I also know you can book extra days far in advance of the fun time booking window at less total cost than TS/fun time by using rented credits.  I see both of those items as things that will help owners much more than any opinions I may have concerning Travelshare and fun time  and neither are things I see requiring or being associated with apololgizes.


----------



## easyrider (Sep 15, 2007)

I am having trouble finding bonus time on weekends in Washington and Oregon. It seems that I cant even use points to get a room and have to be on a waiting list for the weekend I want, where I was able to use bonus time in the past.
So if I end up using points because Im on the waiting list does that make bonus time not an option.


----------



## PA- (Sep 15, 2007)

easysider said:


> I am having trouble finding bonus time on weekends in Washington and Oregon. It seems that I cant even use points to get a room and have to be on a waiting list for the weekend I want, where I was able to use bonus time in the past.
> So if I end up using points because Im on the waiting list does that make bonus time not an option.



If you cancel a reservation you made using credits, you have to wait 48 hours to book on bonus time.  That would make it difficult to do what you propose.

There's no question that the availability of inventory specials and bonus time is way down.


----------



## mtribe (Sep 15, 2007)

Bocabum Thank you very much for the optimistic side effect of fun time.  That is the kind of reminder that we negative nellies :rofl:  really need. Acknowledging that there is a potential problem and proposing an alternative viewpoint goes a long way in opening the door to positive dialog.   I really do try to look for the bright side but sometimes I miss it because there is so much I see that I dislike staring me in the face.  This is definitely a silver lining.


----------



## melschey (Sep 15, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> An apologist for the developer.  LOL.  I've been called a lot of things but that's a new one.
> 
> I.



I have had you in that category for some time. I for the most part just read the forum, but I can usually predict what you will say when there is any criticism of Cendant/TrendWest/ Wyndam or what ever name they are currently going by. 

I doubt if there is anything they could ever do that you would not defend.


----------



## PA- (Sep 16, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> An apologist for the developer.  LOL.  I've been called a lot of things but that's a new one.
> 
> ......



That's hardly a "new one".  In fact, that's the "only" thing I've ever seen you accused of on this forum or on the Worldmark forum at wmowners.com or the one on the wyndham website (when it existed).  In fact, there were many who questioned whether you were a regular owner, or simply a front for a Trendwest employee.  

Not that it's much of an indictment, you have a right to be an "apologist" for the developer, or not, as you see fit.  But I'm curious why you're pretending this is the first time you've been accused of it.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 16, 2007)

PA- said:


> That's hardly a "new one".  In fact, that's the "only" thing I've ever seen you accused of on this forum or on the Worldmark forum at wmowners.com or the one on the wyndham website (when it existed).  In fact, there were many who questioned whether you were a regular owner, or simply a front for a Trendwest employee.
> 
> Not that it's much of an indictment, you have a right to be an "apologist" for the developer, or not, as you see fit.  But I'm curious why you're pretending this is the first time you've been accused of it.



Hmmm, upbeat, positive, supportive of WorldMark, yup, I’ve always been all those things.  I still can’t say that I’ve ever heard the term “apologist” used before but if you want to “accuse” me of that, so be it.   Although accuse is such a harsh term, it makes it sound like being upbeat and positive is a bad thing.

I also want to thank you for supporting my right to be that way, although that wasn’t really necessary.  I’ll assert the right of everyone else to remain negative and downbeat and to continue to expound on their theories of how the developers are ruining everything and how they know better ways to do things.  I would also point out that to the best of my knowledge, no one here, myself included, has ever developed anything.  All those nice resorts we like to visit and all those nice units we all like to stay in were all built and made available by the developers.  That is true whether you are talking about Wyndham or any of the other developers.  While others are talking about it they are out there doing it.  They put up the money, they take the risks, and I intend to enjoy the fruits of their labor.  

So I’ll continue to book all those nice vacations I shouldn’t be able to get because there is no availability and I’ll continue to book all those nice bonus time getaways that I shouldn’t be able to find because bonus time has disappeared.  And when someone makes a comment that they can’t book anything any more I’ll let others tell them it is because the developers have ruined things while I explain ways that may help them to be more successful in obtaining reservations.  And who knows, somewhere along the way I just might show a few of those people that the sky is not falling and they don’t have to listen to all the naysayers.

If you will excuse me now, I just returned from one of those nice WorldMark vacations and have to start getting ready for the next one.


----------



## PA- (Sep 16, 2007)

Perhaps you haven't been listening.  The term apologist has been applied many times.  Whether it's appropriate or not isn't for me to decide, but I assure you this isn't the first time it's been suggested.


----------



## PA- (Sep 17, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> Hmmm, upbeat, positive, supportive of WorldMark, yup, I’ve always been all those things.  I still can’t say that I’ve ever heard the term “apologist” used before but if you want to “accuse” me of that, so be it.   Although accuse is such a harsh term, it makes it sound like being upbeat and positive is a bad thing.
> 
> I also want to thank you for supporting my right to be that way, although that wasn’t really necessary.  I’ll assert the right of everyone else to remain negative and downbeat and to continue to expound on their theories of how the developers are ruining everything and how they know better ways to do things.  I would also point out that to the best of my knowledge, no one here, myself included, has ever developed anything.  All those nice resorts we like to visit and all those nice units we all like to stay in were all built and made available by the developers.  That is true whether you are talking about Wyndham or any of the other developers.  While others are talking about it they are out there doing it.  They put up the money, they take the risks, and I intend to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
> 
> ...



Upbeat and Positive isn't a term I'd ever associate with you.  You are one of the few people who've ever called my integrity or charactor into question, and you don't even know one thing about me.  To me, that's not a sign of an "upbeat" person.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Sep 17, 2007)

mtribe said:


> Bocabum Thank you very much for the optimistic side effect of fun time.  That is the kind of reminder that we negative nellies :rofl:  really need. Acknowledging that there is a potential problem and proposing an alternative viewpoint goes a long way in opening the door to positive dialog.   I really do try to look for the bright side but sometimes I miss it because there is so much I see that I dislike staring me in the face.  This is definitely a silver lining.



I try to be a pragmatic, realist.  I do name call at times, but more than anything else, I just seek the truth.   Every idea has a pro and a con.  Most of us just speak the pro OR the con.

Balanced discussions leads to more truth finding.


----------



## cruisin (Sep 18, 2007)

Did this cotraveller person ever answer the question? I tried to read the thread carefully, did I miss the answer?


----------



## melschey (Sep 18, 2007)

cruisin said:


> Did this cotraveller person ever answer the question? I tried to read the thread carefully, did I miss the answer?




I don't think cotraveler will ever admit that the developer would ever do anything detrimental to WM owners. In my opinion he seems to always defend the developers position. The way I read his replies are that WM owners have nothing to worry about that that bonus time will not be effected. Many of us do not agree with him, but he is entitled to his opinion.


----------



## spatenfloot (Sep 18, 2007)

Bonus time will still be available, but probably not as much as in the past and maybe not where you want to use it.


----------



## drguy (Sep 19, 2007)

An easy way to beat FT is to rent credits and book at the 90 day booking window.  Same cost as FT, or less, booked earlier and lots of weekends are available too.
If you don't want to join TS, get better results by being proactive.
Guy


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 19, 2007)

And if you are still looking for bonus time in Oregon, September 24 through September 30 at Running Y in a 2 bedroom is available right now.  That's next Monday through next Sunday, your pick of any 4 days including the weekend. Act fast, I'll bet it doesn't last long.


----------



## melschey (Sep 19, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> And if you are still looking for bonus time in Oregon, September 24 through September 30 at Running Y in a 2 bedroom is available right now.  That's next Monday through next Sunday, your pick of any 4 days including the weekend. Act fast, I'll bet it doesn't last long.



BT is often availabe at Running Y. I want the coast resorts. I used to find them but the last few years it has become very hard to even get a reservation on coast during peak season let alone get it on BT. I guess this does prove that it isn't Fun Time that is the big problem.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 19, 2007)

melschey said:


> BT is often availabe at Running Y. I want the coast resorts. I used to find them but the last few years it has become very hard to even get a reservation on coast during peak season let alone get it on BT. I guess this does prove that it isn't Fun Time that is the big problem.



Last February Seaside had units open even though it was on Inventory Special.  That isn't peak season though. 

The 4th of July week in 2008 is peak season.  The 4th is on a Friday and a lot of people will also get the 3rd off of work, which means you could have a weeks vacation with only 3 days off work.  I tracked the booking for the west coast resorts for that week.  The 13 month booking window for reservations starting on the Friday before that weekend opened on May 27, 2007.  And don't forget, you could book Friday night, 6/27/08 through Sunday night 7/6/2008for a 9 day trip.  I posted the following on May 30.

_"The 13 month booking window for that week is open and I've been looking at availability. On the Oregon coast, which is often used as an example of a hard to book area, Seaside, Gleneden Beach, Depoe Bay, and Schooner Landing all have tons of availability as of late evening, May 29, 2007. In Washington, Discovery Bay is wide open. In Northern California Marina Dunes has availability for all days except June 29, 2008. At Oceanside only the 3 bedroom units are booked, all other sizes are available, and even Pismo Beach, a relatively small resort, has availability on both the ground floor and upper floor. " _

Those prime west coast weekends are available if you plan early.  I don't buy the stories about reduced availability and I think you are doing owners a disservice when they say they can't get reservations and you do nothing more than go on about how bad things are.  Tell them how to get those reservations instead and you will be helping.  I'll repeat what drguy said, get better results by being proactive.


----------



## melschey (Sep 20, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> Last February Seaside had units open even though it was on Inventory Special.  That isn't peak season though.
> 
> The 4th of July week in 2008 is peak season.  The 4th is on a Friday and a lot of people will also get the 3rd off of work, which means you could have a weeks vacation with only 3 days off work.  I tracked the booking for the west coast resorts for that week.  The 13 month booking window for reservations starting on the Friday before that weekend opened on May 27, 2007.  And don't forget, you could book Friday night, 6/27/08 through Sunday night 7/6/2008for a 9 day trip.  I posted the following on May 30.
> 
> ...



Just the answer I expecterd. The developer will never do anything to harm WM owners in your opinion. You have your right to your opinion but a l lot of us don't aqrgee with you. I have been a WM owner since 1993 and was very happy with my membersip untill the last few years. I don't like the changes since Cendant purchased Trendwest.


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 20, 2007)

melschey said:


> Just the answer I expecterd. The developer will never do anything to harm WM owners in your opinion. You have your right to your opinion but a l lot of us don't aqrgee with you. I have been a WM owner since 1993 and was very happy with my membersip untill the last few years. I don't like the changes since Cendant purchased Trendwest.



My bad, I didn't realize I had mentioned the developer in the response you quoted.  I do notice that I said weekends in my post and what I meant was weeks.  You don't agree that you can get west coast reservations, even for the prime weeks?  I guess I looked at the wrong data. Or do you not agree about helping others learn how to get those reservations?


----------



## PA- (Sep 20, 2007)

Fred, I've directed many hundreds, if not thousands of people to wmowners.com, where they get these tips for maximizing usage, plus many more.  So as far as I'm concerned, I'm doing my share to help owners learn how to get Bonus Time.  You're either missing, or ignoring, the point.

DR. GUY, Credits usually rent for 6 - 7cents per credit.  Bonus Time costs 4.4 cents, plus includes housekeeping, and isn't subject to 1 "weekend only" per quarter.  So while it may help you beat FT, that's not the point.

The point is, why should owners be in the position of coming up with counter-measures for overcoming these programs?  If our board enforced the declarations, there would be no Fun Time to have to overcome and there would be no class action lawsuit to eliminate Fun Time.  If our board enforced the declarations, Wyndham would not now be selling 51 weeks of each condo, rather than the 48 dictated by the declarations.  There are many issues in the declaration that could be argued 2 different ways.  We have a board that ALWAYS seems to accept the way that's most harmful to owners, and beneficial to Wyndham.  The Board is responsible for interpreting the bylaws and declarations themselves, not just accepting Wyndham's interpretation.


----------



## easyrider (Sep 20, 2007)

*Phil, what do you know about employee reservations*

Hi Phil
I am wondering how many non-member WM employess can make reservations at WM Resorts and what the usage policy is. Also can Wyndam non-member employees make resevations at WM resorts and what the usage policy for these employees is now.
Thanks
Bill


----------



## melschey (Sep 20, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> My bad, I didn't realize I had mentioned the developer in the response you quoted.  I do notice that I said weekends in my post and what I meant was weeks.  You don't agree that you can get west coast reservations, even for the prime weeks?  I guess I looked at the wrong data. Or do you not agree about helping others learn how to get those reservations?




The question is about BT not reservations. Sure you can get prime reservations in peak time if you plan ahead, but it take a lot more planning now than it used to. 

 My point that I meant to make was That coast resorts during peak time are now booked up months ahead of time, So they are not available for BT. I am not to worried about FT because I don't see much there at 42 days out so they shouldn't be much there for FT either. Anything that comes up between 42 days and 14 should go to those on the wait list. 

My worry is that Wyndham will come up with some way to reserve blocks ahead of time for FT reservation.


----------



## PA- (Sep 20, 2007)

melschey said:


> The question is about BT not reservations. Sure you can get prime reservations in peak time if you plan ahead, but it take a lot more planning now than it used to.
> 
> My point that I meant to make was That coast resorts during peak time are now booked up months ahead of time, So they are not available for BT. I am not to worried about FT because I don't see much there at 42 days out so they shouldn't be much there for FT either. Anything that comes up between 42 days and 14 should go to those on the wait list.
> 
> My worry is that Wyndham will come up with some way to reserve blocks ahead of time for FT reservation.



The board, in answer to my questions, said that Wyndham could reserve rooms up to 13 months in advance with their credits that they get in exchange for services, such as FAX time, cruise for credits, etc, and that Wyndham could then do what they wish with these acquired credits.  They can rent blocks of rooms, if they wish, and use them for Fun Time, rentals, party weekends or anything else.  This despite the fact that owners do not have the same ability to "monetize" their acquired credits.  I asked why the Board's change in guidelines, forbidding commercial use of acquired credits didn't apply to Wyndham.  Their answer was that the restriction is only on worldmark members, and that Wyndham is not a worldmark member.  Sounds like our board is looking out for us owners.


----------



## PA- (Sep 20, 2007)

easysider said:


> Hi Phil
> I am wondering how many non-member WM employess can make reservations at WM Resorts and what the usage policy is. Also can Wyndam non-member employees make resevations at WM resorts and what the usage policy for these employees is now.
> Thanks
> Bill



According to the bylaws, Wyndham can ONLY reserve rooms 45 days or less from checkin.  According to the bylaws, Wyndham can ONLY reserve rooms for sales, construction or development.  So according to the bylaws, Wyndham cannot reserve rooms for employees.  Worldmark has no employees, so that question doesn't apply.

Now, according to Dave Herrick in an email to me, Wyndham can reserve any room at any time for any reason.  This was in response to Wyndham taking the 2bedroom penthouse at the Camlin in exchange for a room at Seaside.

According to the Board, Wyndham can book a room up to 13 months in advance for any reason, using credits acquired from owners.  

So if the question is, what is Wyndham permitted to do as far as reserving rooms, see my first paragraph.  But if your question is, what ARE they being permitted to do, see my 2nd and 3rd paragraph.


----------



## easyrider (Sep 20, 2007)

*I was asking more about non-member empoyee usage.*

So if an employee of Worldmark that hasnt bought a Worldmark membership can reserve rooms at a Worldmark Resort would a Wyndam employee that hasnt bought a Worldmark membership be able to do the same. 

I dont think its right for any non Worldmark member to be able to use up inventory that a paid Worldmark member may want.

How many of these non-member employees get to reserve at the Worldmark resorts. Is it more now that Wyndham is involved.


----------



## cruisin (Sep 21, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> Last February Seaside had units open even though it was on Inventory Special.  That isn't peak season though.
> 
> The 4th of July week in 2008 is peak season.  The 4th is on a Friday and a lot of people will also get the 3rd off of work, which means you could have a weeks vacation with only 3 days off work.  I tracked the booking for the west coast resorts for that week.  The 13 month booking window for reservations starting on the Friday before that weekend opened on May 27, 2007.  And don't forget, you could book Friday night, 6/27/08 through Sunday night 7/6/2008for a 9 day trip.  I posted the following on May 30.
> 
> ...



I had seen this on your site, It was very clear that June even up to the 4th was not the prime summer season on the Oregon coast, I had to book throw away days at depoe bay for my reservations after the 4th, also throw away days for any weekend starts at depoe bay/gleneden/Seaside/schooner landing  in anything bigger than a 1 bedroom until the end of August from the middle of July. We should post here next summer from July 15th until the end of august and see what can be booked fri/sat/ during prime Oregon coast season 13 months out  in anything bigger than a 1 bedroom without throwaway days? 

Please do not post what can't be booked, the list will be too long


----------



## cotraveller (Sep 21, 2007)

cruisin said:


> I had seen this on your site, It was very clear that June even up to the 4th was not the prime summer season on the Oregon coast, I had to book throw away days at depoe bay for my reservations after the 4th, also throw away days for any weekend starts at depoe bay/gleneden/Seaside/schooner landing  in anything bigger than a 1 bedroom until the end of August from the middle of July. We should post here next summer from July 15th until the end of august and see what can be booked fri/sat/ during prime Oregon coast season 13 months out  in anything bigger than a 1 bedroom without throwaway days?
> 
> Please do not post what can't be booked, the list will be too long



If you are referring to the 4th of July for 2008, with the Friday before being June 26, the only units at Seaside that it was necessary to use throwaway days for that I am aware of were the 3-br penthouses, assuming you booked when the 13 month booking window opened.  Everything else was still open at the end of May a few days after the booking window had opened.  I didn't follow the booking pattern at the other Oregon coast resorts and I didn't follow Seaside after that to see when the other units filled.

Looking at Seaside right now, with the exception of the studios, next summer is pretty well booked from mid June through the end of August with only a few scattered days here and there. If I understand your post correctly, that is what you are saying also.  If you wanted those later summer units and didn't book them as soon as the booking window opened you had to use throw away days, especially for the 2 br and larger units.

Maybe next year I will do what you suggest and track the units as the booking window proceeds into sumer and see when the various size units fill up.   If I do, I'll post some updates on the status as the booking window progresses through the summer.


----------



## melschey (Sep 21, 2007)

PA- said:


> The board, in answer to my questions, said that Wyndham could reserve rooms up to 13 months in advance with their credits that they get in exchange for services, such as FAX time, cruise for credits, etc, and that Wyndham could then do what they wish with these acquired credits.  They can rent blocks of rooms, if they wish, and use them for Fun Time, rentals, party weekends or anything else.  This despite the fact that owners do not have the same ability to "monetize" their acquired credits.  I asked why the Board's change in guidelines, forbidding commercial use of acquired credits didn't apply to Wyndham.  Their answer was that the restriction is only on worldmark members, and that Wyndham is not a worldmark member.  Sounds like our board is looking out for us owners.



Is that how they could offer me free days at Leavenworth all summer if I would take a couple with me for a Times Share presentation. I wondered how they could offer this when there ware no openings for WM members to book using credits let alone use  BT. 

I am sure there were a lot of WM members that would have liked to have stayed at Leavenworth using their credits to do so. 

Who was Our BOD looking out for when they allowed this to happen?

I think they had their Wydham Hats on when the made this decision. Or maybe the president of the WM BOD just remembered who signs his paycheck.

So are you saying that if they can do this, then they could set up a FT wait list for TS share members that would put them ahead of the rest of us? That is the sort of thing that worries me.


----------



## drguy (Sep 21, 2007)

easysider said:


> So if an employee of Worldmark that hasnt bought a Worldmark membership can reserve rooms at a Worldmark Resort would a Wyndam employee that hasnt bought a Worldmark membership be able to do the same.
> 
> I dont think its right for any non Worldmark member to be able to use up inventory that a paid Worldmark member may want.
> 
> How many of these non-member employees get to reserve at the Worldmark resorts. Is it more now that Wyndham is involved.



WorldMark, The Club has no employees.  Zero, nada, none.
The BOD has delegated the management of the Club to Wyndham Vacation Ownership.  It was not sent out for a competitive bid nor were any bids sought according to my discussions with the BOD.
Guy


----------



## cruisin (Sep 21, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> If you are referring to the 4th of July for 2008, with the Friday before being June 26, the only units at Seaside that it was necessary to use throwaway days for that I am aware of were the 3-br penthouses, assuming you booked when the 13 month booking window opened.  Everything else was still open at the end of May a few days after the booking window had opened.  I didn't follow the booking pattern at the other Oregon coast resorts and I didn't follow Seaside after that to see when the other units filled.
> 
> Looking at Seaside right now, with the exception of the studios, next summer is pretty well booked from mid June through the end of August with only a few scattered days here and there. If I understand your post correctly, that is what you are saying also.  If you wanted those later summer units and didn't book them as soon as the booking window opened you had to use throw away days, especially for the 2 br and larger units.
> 
> Maybe next year I will do what you suggest and track the units as the booking window proceeds into sumer and see when the various size units fill up.   If I do, I'll post some updates on the status as the booking window progresses through the summer.



I think that would be fun, if we are not enjoying our Wm vacations at the time   I will also try to post some updadtes..


----------



## easyrider (Sep 22, 2007)

Worldmark may not have employees but there are many people that work for Worldmarks intrests (it seems its Wyndham). Im not sure who they work for but if you call vacation planning or a resort that would be a person working for Worldmark or Worldmarks intrest. Im sure there are many people working in this type of situation.

I have been told by a person working with or for Worldmark (an accountant)that she can make reservations at Worldmark resorts and she is not a member. Was she working for Trendwest and now for Wyndham ? 

The reservations she made were not even for her use. Why is this allowed ? Maybe if there is only a few people doing this no problem, but I think there are quit a few.


----------



## melschey (Sep 22, 2007)

easysider said:


> Worldmark may not have employees but there are many people that work for Worldmarks intrests (it seems its Wyndham). Im not sure who they work for but if you call vacation planning or a resort that would be a person working for Worldmark or Worldmarks intrest. Im sure there are many people working in this type of situation.
> 
> I have been told by a person working with or for Worldmark (an accountant)that she can make reservations at Worldmark resorts and she is not a member. Was she working for Trendwest and now for Wyndham ?
> 
> The reservations she made were not even for her use. Why is this allowed ? Maybe if there is only a few people doing this no problem, but I think there are quit a few.



Just remember The president of our WM BOD gets his pay check from Wyndham and so does Peggy Fry, two other BOD members used to work for the developer. 

Who do think they are looking out for WM members or Wyndham?


----------



## drguy (Sep 22, 2007)

PA- said:


> ...
> DR. GUY, Credits usually rent for 6 - 7cents per credit.  Bonus Time costs 4.4 cents, plus includes housekeeping, and isn't subject to 1 "weekend only" per quarter.  So while it may help you beat FT, that's not the point.
> 
> ...  If our board enforced the declarations, Wyndham would not now be selling 51 weeks of each condo, rather than the 48 dictated by the declarations.
> ...


Philip-
The credits I've rented were 5 cents/ credit.  Granted, I've only rented 20,000 credits in the past few weeks and some do ask more.  I simply choose not to pay more.  FT is 6.2 cents/credit or thereabouts.  Roughly the cost of credit rental plus a HK fee.
I've never been introduced to the concept that rental credits are limited to 1 weekend use per quarter, although that does apply to BT and to a lesser extent FT, depending upon the elite status, if any, one has in TS.
The Declarations read that the Developer may sell 48 or 50 or 51 weeks.  Perhaps you've got an outdated copy.  Exhibit "A"  to Declaration of Vacation Owner Program spells this out very clearly.  I'd prefer that BT be included in the new resorts and would fight for it, but one cannot fault the Developer for following the rules as much as one might disagree with the rules.
Guy


----------



## larry_WM (Oct 29, 2007)

melschey said:


> BT is often availabe at Running Y. I want the coast resorts. I used to find them but the last few years it has become very hard to even get a reservation on coast during peak season let alone get it on BT. I guess this does prove that it isn't Fun Time that is the big problem.



Every want the coast resorts. Remember there are more and more savvy owner like you and they are outfoxing you. I bought more credits and now i can book whereever I want. Bonus time no longer can  book( even Funtime too ) for popular resorts
The time is changed.


----------



## cruisin (Oct 29, 2007)

easysider said:


> Worldmark may not have employees but there are many people that work for Worldmarks intrests (it seems its Wyndham). Im not sure who they work for but if you call vacation planning or a resort that would be a person working for Worldmark or Worldmarks intrest. Im sure there are many people working in this type of situation.
> 
> I have been told by a person working with or for Worldmark (an accountant)that she can make reservations at Worldmark resorts and she is not a member. Was she working for Trendwest and now for Wyndham ?
> 
> The reservations she made were not even for her use. Why is this allowed ? Maybe if there is only a few people doing this no problem, but I think there are quit a few.



Wyndham employees can book time, I think it is 45 days out, which if Wyndham is booking as the developer for them, that timeframe would make sense.


----------



## larry_WM (Oct 30, 2007)

Bonus is bonus, it's not guarantee. The owner know more and more how to use their account, that makes bonustime dwindle.  More and more people know how to use and active vacation, even booking with credit is not easy, but it's fair. You are using bonus time on the disadvantage of other owner
The bottomline is when you buy in 8000 credit for WM you only expect to have 1 week usage guarantee if you book far in advance, it's not guarantee in any resort either and bonus is just bonus, not a guarantee. The savvy fold in Wmowners.com very greedy , read what they boast in the posting, with a tiny account they have visited a lot of resorts and they still complain. There are a lot of unfortunate folk out there bought in WM but never have a chance to use it. Time is changing, more owners know how to use it, more owners know how to exploit the system, then it's not a surprise to see bonus time dwindle, not a surprise to find it harder to book a coast resort in summer even by credit. Thanks to yourself, the folks at Wmowners.com, have trained 5000 owners how to fully utilize their account. These 5000 owners are a big competition for a few summer weeks period, small number of units at coast resort. Blame on yourself,don't blame on Wyndham, don't blame on Travelshares. I don't think the new Travelshare folks can use the funtime to grasp your summer weekend at coast resort, you fellow savvy owners do. AskJimP ar PerryP, I don't think they have any problem book in any resort any week they want. Learn how to outfox your friend, don't complain


----------



## larry_WM (Oct 30, 2007)

cruisin said:


> Wyndham employees can book time, I think it is 45 days out, which if Wyndham is booking as the developer for them, that timeframe would make sense.



I don't know it's truth or not, but I doubt about it. Do you have any solid evident or just chant the slogan?


----------



## cruisin (Oct 30, 2007)

I know people who work at wyndham, the time they can book as non owners is the same time wyndham can book, at 45 days out, I am not  accusing anyone of wrong doing, I think the developer can book at 45 days, and does so for its employees. I will be the first to admit I am wrong if this is not so. Once I received a 3 day stay certificate from wyndham , and I could not book until 45 days out. Again, I am assuming since Wyndham was booking the 3 night stay for me, it had to be in the 45 day window. I am not the expert on this, but I think it is within Wyndham's right to book at 45 days?
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, and I may be.


----------



## larry_WM (Oct 31, 2007)

cruisin said:


> I know people who work at wyndham, the time they can book as non owners is the same time wyndham can book, at 45 days out, I am not  accusing anyone of wrong doing, I think the developer can book at 45 days, and does so for its employees. I will be the first to admit I am wrong if this is not so. Once I received a 3 day stay certificate from wyndham , and I could not book until 45 days out. Again, I am assuming since Wyndham was booking the 3 night stay for me, it had to be in the 45 day window. I am not the expert on this, but I think it is within Wyndham's right to book at 45 days?
> I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, and I may be.


I don't know because i don't work for wyndham. I think it may happen under some program, such as a big corporate account member or something, Abuse is happen everywhere at lower level: discrimination, corruption, embezzlement at any organization even US government. I know for sure they are not tolerated by any law, any policy, And these things will be punished if uncovered. There is nothing we can do about it. If you want to be a Timeshare policeman go for it, but if you tell something untrue, unprovable you may received an unpleasant consequence. They are all hearsays, even they are true and we don't have any proofs, it's hard to pursue further, and it only happen at lower level. To contribute for your story, I myself experienced a similiar occurrence. On one of my vacation at WM resort, I was in the hottub  with several occupants of a penthouse of the resort. I ask how long had they been  owners and I was answered that they are not owner, they're just renters. On the way checking out, I met them checking out too and overheard the frontdesk guy atalk to them "if you want to come and stay, give me a call". I was very angry at the time but what can I do. As I said above abuse always happen and life is not alway fair.
I don't know if you have ever read this thread yet, I see that it's a form of abuse in line with the law. Can you, will you do anything about it. By the way it is a very old news, and most of the evidents have been cleaned, but you can tel who was the culprit
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7923&highlight=


----------



## cruisin (Oct 31, 2007)

I do not see this as abuse, I am just saying that  Wyndham has the ability to book at 45 days, I am sure that is why fun time goes up to 42 days, since fun time is a wyndham perk, it can only be booked inside 45 days by Wyndham.


----------



## PA- (Oct 31, 2007)

cruisin said:


> I do not see this as abuse, I am just saying that  Wyndham has the ability to book at 45 days, I am sure that is why fun time goes up to 42 days, since fun time is a wyndham perk, it can only be booked inside 45 days by Wyndham.



Wyndham is booking units well outside the 45 day window.  They don't even bother to deny it.  Peggy has admitted it.  

Furthermore, the declaration restricts the reasons for which wyndham can reserve units, and rental income is NOT one of them.


----------



## SleepinIn (Nov 1, 2007)

From the "Declaration of Vacation Owner Program:

2.5 Declarant . Notwithstanding any provision herein,_Declarant shall have the right to perform such acts as are necessarily incident to construction and development of the Property and sales of the Memberships_ without Board approval, *provided such rights shall not unreasonably interfere with the use
and enjoyment of the Property by Members*. _*Declarant shall not reserve any occupancy period earlier than 45 days before the first day of that period*_, and all such reservations must be in accordance with Vacation Credits attributable to Declarant, whether unsold or reacquired by Club or Declarant.​_
Emphasis added by me._

It seems to me that booking Oceanside or Las Vegas almost any time, and many of the other resorts during summer certainly "unreasonably interfere with the use and enjoyment of the Property by Members."


----------



## cruisin (Jun 8, 2008)

cruisin said:


> I think that would be fun, if we are not enjoying our Wm vacations at the time   I will also try to post some updadtes..



4th of july, 2009 Oregon coast

Depoe Bay no availability
Schooner landing no availability
Gleneden only 1 bed less desirable and 1 bed back building
Seaside only studio, and 1 bedroom less deisirable


It was possible to book the 4th 13 months out if you booked weeks starting Sunday june 28th, Also a few for Friday July 3rd, but gone early in the morning.

There is usuall a lull the week or 2 after the 4th, so book quickly if you want a week on the Oregon coast.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 6, 2008)

Availability this evening when I checked, 2 bedroom or larger  units oregon coast 13 months out availability to book Aug 5th,2009

Depoe Bay= 0 available most need 2 throwaway
Gleneden=0 availabler most need 2 throwaway
Schooner Landing 2 2 bed units available 
Seaside 2 2 bed less desirable units available

So 4 units total out of a couple hundred.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 6, 2008)

This morning, 

1 unit 2 bed or larger on the Oregon Coast 13 months out

Seaside 2 bedroom less desirable Aug 6th

Thats it.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 7, 2008)

No 2 bedrooms or larger  on the Oregon coast can be booked 13 months out at this moment.. If you get up tomorrow, at 6 AM, there are 2 bedroom units available for Saturday Aug 8,2009 start dates. At seaside, the penthouses require 7 throwaway days, the 2 and 3 bed ocean fronts are farther than 14 days out, so at the moment they can't be booked with even 13 throwaway days.


----------



## FLYNZ4 (Jul 8, 2008)

cruisin said:


> No 2 bedrooms or larger  on the Oregon coast can be booked 13 months out at this moment.. If you get up tomorrow, at 6 AM, there are 2 bedroom units available for Saturday Aug 8,2009 start dates. At seaside, the penthouses require 7 throwaway days, the 2 and 3 bed ocean fronts are farther than 14 days out, so at the moment they can't be booked with even 13 throwaway days.



This was 100% predictable.   People said we were smoking dope when we predicted this several years ago.   It is so disgusting... I can't even stand to look at the inventory pages anymore.   Something has to happen... WM is being distroyed.

/Jim


----------



## cruisin (Jul 8, 2008)

This morning at 10am Pacific there were some back building 2 bedrooms at Gleneden, a few front 2 beds at depoe bay, and a few 2 bedrooms at seaside, now there is only 1 unit available, a 2 bedroom less desirable at seaside. This was for a saturday start next August 8, so still possible to get a nice week long booking if you hit it early AM exactly 13 months out for saturday stays, fridays are harder, and 3 bedrooms are getting really tough.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 8, 2008)

all 3 bedrooms Oregon coast

Depoe Bay
3 bed phase 1- 4 throw away days too book
3 bed special needs 7 throwaway days to book

Gleneden
3 bed front building- 8 throwaway days
3 bed less desirable -6 throwaway days
3 bed special needs- 7 throwaway days

Seaside

3 bed penthouse - 7 throwaway days
Almost all other 3 bedroom types 1 throwaway day


----------



## easyrider (Jul 8, 2008)

I was informed that RCI employees can book WM without a membership. The information came from a TS presentation where there was an article the presenter shared about RCI and WM. Is this true ?


----------



## Shon_t (Jul 10, 2008)

cruisin said:


> This morning at 10am Pacific there were some back building 2 bedrooms at Gleneden, a few front 2 beds at depoe bay, and a few 2 bedrooms at seaside, now there is only 1 unit available, a 2 bedroom less desirable at seaside. This was for a saturday start next August 8, so still possible to get a nice week long booking if you hit it early AM exactly 13 months out for saturday stays, fridays are harder, and 3 bedrooms are getting really tough.



Instead of looking 1 x per day...you may want to look several times...several hundred times...preferably in the AM.  

*WHAM* they'll be there when you least expect it!


----------



## LLW (Jul 10, 2008)

Shon_t said:


> Instead of looking 1 x per day...you may want to look several times...several hundred times...preferably in the AM.
> 
> *WHAM* they'll be there when you least expect it!



Shon:

Were you thinking of 2008? I think cruisin was talking about 2009. Different years, different behaviors.


----------



## Shon_t (Jul 10, 2008)

The same method applies whether you are looking for Bonus time, or looking 13 months out. Looking around specific cancellation deadlines seems to also be a good strategy.


----------



## ocdb8r (Jul 10, 2008)

What are "throw away" days?


----------



## LLW (Jul 10, 2008)

Shon_t said:


> Instead of looking 1 x per day...you may want to look several times...several hundred times...preferably in the AM.
> 
> *WHAM* they'll be there when you least expect it!





Shon_t said:


> The same method applies whether you are looking for Bonus time, or looking 13 months out. Looking around specific cancellation deadlines seems to also be a good strategy.




Looking several hundred times a day for 14 days or 13 months? Or around specific cancellation deadlines when you most expect it?  

I have looked 10 times a day for 6 months and nothing moved (note: non-bonus time). You could get on the waitlist (harder when you need less than 7 days more than 90 days out in red). However, sometimes people see days on line that they should have been called for a match but were not.

Of course, there is always the lower-rated or higher-credit resorts and unit types that you can get, and they are still better than motels.


----------



## LLW (Jul 10, 2008)

ocdb8r said:


> What are "throw away" days?



See this WMO Knowledgebase article:

http://www.wmowners.com/WMOwners/web/knowledgebase/jump_on_reservation.php

Some call the leading days "throw away" days.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 10, 2008)

LLW said:


> Shon:
> 
> Were you thinking of 2008? I think cruisin was talking about 2009. Different years, different behaviors.




Yes, these are all 13 months out, last year we had the conversation about availability, I just thought I would update it once in a while this summer. It is still possible to book a few 2 bedrooms on the Oregon coast 13 months out for next summer, but almost has to be done at 6am exactly 13 months out, or they are gone, .

Right now, even if you get up at 6am tomorrow, you cannot book any 3 bedroom on the Oregon coast, they are all 2-14 days out past 13 months.

Same thing for 2 bedrooms, at all 4 Oregon coast resorts.

1 2 bedroom special needs at Gleneden is available now

Tomorrow this same unit, 1 2 bedroom twin at seaside, and 1 2 bedroom twin less desirable at seaside are  available if you are first at 6am.

1 2 bedroom available now
3 2 bedrooms available to the lucky 3 people up at 6AM
0 3 bedrooms for at least 2 days 

Thats the whole Oregon Coast!! 

3 2 bedroom units  out of over 350 2 and 3 bedroom units available on the oregon coast tomorrow at 6AM  WOW....


----------



## cotraveller (Jul 11, 2008)

I’ve been tracking the bookings for next summer and have seen the same thing.  It looks like owner education is working.  A common theme here on TUG is “_You’ve bought this timeshare thing now learn how to use it and then go out and enjoy it_”.  That's not just about WorldMark, it’s about timeshares in general.  

At least some WorldMark owners have done that.  They have learned what it takes to get the reservations they want.  Owners of larger accounts with many credits and owners of smaller accounts with the knowledge and means to rent extra credits are willing to use their credits to book throw away days to get the reservation they want.  Is that bad?  If it is we better shut down all the owner education that get pushed here and at other places.

Btw, it’s not just on the Oregon coast that this is happening.  At West Yellowstone, one of those new higher credit WorldMark resorts, you can’t even book a studio for next summer without using throw away days.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 11, 2008)

cotraveller said:


> I’ve been tracking the bookings for next summer and have seen the same thing.  It looks like owner education is working.  A common theme here on TUG is “_You’ve bought this timeshare thing now learn how to use it and then go out and enjoy it_”.  That's not just about WorldMark, it’s about timeshares in general.
> 
> At least some WorldMark owners have done that.  They have learned what it takes to get the reservations they want.  Owners of larger accounts with many credits and owners of smaller accounts with the knowledge and means to rent extra credits are willing to use their credits to book throw away days to get the reservation they want.  Is that bad?  If it is we better shut down all the owner education that get pushed here and at other places.
> 
> Btw, it’s not just on the Oregon coast that this is happening.  At West Yellowstone, one of those new higher credit WorldMark resorts, you can’t even book a studio for next summer without using throw away days.



Interesting take on why there is less availability, I never would have thought to blame it on the owners. Clever


----------



## cotraveller (Jul 11, 2008)

cruisin said:


> Interesting take on why there is less availability, I never would have thought to blame it on the owners. Clever



Blame it on the owners??  Interesting phrasing.  Clever.


----------



## Shon_t (Jul 11, 2008)

Well..there is also factors other than timeshare that can negatively impact availability.

1. More people using high speed internet-makes booking faster and more convenient. 

2. High fuel prices/economic concerns---5 resorts in Hawaii and one in Cabo are relatively empty...people are just choosing to stay closer to home..and as a result...Availability is really impacted in the North West.

3. Owner Education in higher.

As to how much these factors negatively contribute to availability, that subject is up to debate.

I'm not a Travelshare fan myself... I believe it creates multiple classes of users, which is in direct violation of the governing documents of the club. I also don't believe the benefits are anywhere near offsetting the cost of purchasing such credits from the developer. It's also a program that the developer could decide, at any time, to cancel...leaving people that paid for extra credits, just to have the service, holding an empty bag.


----------



## LLW (Jul 11, 2008)

cotraveller said:


> At West Yellowstone, one of those new higher credit WorldMark resorts, you can’t even book a studio for next summer without using throw away days.



Fred, there is a studio sitting on line for 7-31-09 to 8-9-09! Go get it!  

Thanks for reminding us if we want West Yellowstone for September (when the credits are lower) we'd better get ready to get it.  The white season is the new red.   Owner updates should educate owners on that.


----------



## cotraveller (Jul 11, 2008)

LLW said:


> Fred, there is a studio sitting on line for 7-31-09 to 8-9-09! Go get it!



Ah if only I could.  It's been 30+ years since I've been to Yellowstone.  But other plans are already in the works for 2009.  Maybe in 2010.



LLW said:


> Thanks for reminding us if we want West Yellowstone for September (when the credits are lower) we'd better get ready to get it.



Glad to help.  Just doing my part to promote owner education.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 17, 2008)

same pattern for the last 6 days, usually 4 or 5   2 bedroom units available if you call the next morning or book online right at 8. Seaside usually has 1 3 bedroom available next morning at 6 AM also.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 21, 2008)

No 3 bedrooms available to book 13 months out even tomorrow, a few 2 bedrooms if you call at 6am tomorrow..


----------



## cruisin (Jul 31, 2008)

back from enjoying a Worldmark vacation  Looks like the weekend before Labor Day weekend in 2009, inventory is available at Most resorts. The Ocean fronts, penthouse, front buildings are still out past 13 months, but quite a few 2 bedrooms available and a few 3 bedrooms. What will next year bring?


----------



## cruisin (May 24, 2009)

Just about time to check availability for oregon coast starting July 4, 2010. The nicer units at depoe bay, seaside, are already  into throwaway days, and every ocean front unit at seaside, 2bed,3bed,penthouse is booked past the 4th of july.


----------



## mtribe (May 27, 2009)

cotraveller said:


> I’ve been tracking the bookings for next summer and have seen the same thing.  It looks like owner education is working.  A common theme here on TUG is “_You’ve bought this timeshare thing now learn how to use it and then go out and enjoy it_”.  That's not just about WorldMark, it’s about timeshares in general.
> 
> At least some WorldMark owners have done that.  They have learned what it takes to get the reservations they want.  Owners of larger accounts with many credits and owners of smaller accounts with the knowledge and means to rent extra credits are willing to use their credits to book throw away days to get the reservation they want.  Is that bad?  If it is we better shut down all the owner education that get pushed here and at other places.
> 
> Btw, it’s not just on the Oregon coast that this is happening.  At West Yellowstone, one of those new higher credit WorldMark resorts, you can’t even book a studio for next summer without using throw away days.



Well, the Wyndham "apologist" returns to this thread.  Owner Education has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the fact that units are being fully booked in the summer.  That is a natural consequence of over selling in the northeast.  Those units are quickly gobbled up by the small fraction with enough credits and who are willing to book lead days and are right on top of things while the rest of the owners are hosed.  

Using Yellowstone as a positive example is hilarious.  OF COURSE it is difficult to book Yellowstone in the summer.  That is the only time Yellowstone is booked.  Next  you will say  if you want bonus time it is available at Yellowstone in the winter.  Yellowstone and similar new single season resorts are one key contributing factor as to why it is getting more and more difficult to book summer months on the Paciffic coast.  

Wyndham is creating too many red weeks and too many credits overall for each new resort created.  Blue and White seasons are shrinking while red weeks are expanding.  Blue weeks need to be low enough to entice people to book them.  If they are not then the resorts sit vacant or on IS or BT and the credits generated by those weeks continue to accumulate and and put pressure on those few presious summer weeks.  Instead september is being set as red in direct competition with the 4th of july.  Are those two weeks really comparable in demand?  Not in my eyes.  

Mike


----------



## ladycody (May 28, 2009)

Gotta agree with Marci.  I'm not particularly surprised that Yellowstone is booked solid for the summer.  Heck...some owners have _no choice _but to spend WAY more credits than they ever expected or _go without a vacation entirely_!  Talk to me when Yellowstone is booked during the rest of the year.  Until that happens...all those high level (meaning there's more of them than normal ) "west yellowstone" off season credits are fighting for the more desirable resorts.  (and dont bother explaining that the off-season weeks are part of the inventory...I get that...I just resent that at the newer resorts I need to pay full red season credits for a cr@p week!  (and am betting most owners would agree with me...hence the shortage of bookings in off season!)  I mean heck...our resort at Anaheim (home to the happiest place on earth)...with it's credit values... is WIDE open all year when kids are in school....but try booking Dolphin's cove.  I know Anaheim is a big resort...but we have_ over 280,000 owners _and it _still_ has to beg to be booked!  That's gotta tell you something about it's in-house value...that owners think their being hosed and only book there if they_ have _to.


Ps...can I say cr@p? Well...apparently I can and I did...but _really_...red season values (or _dang_ close!) for the worst time of year at west yellowstone?!?!?   Puh lease......


----------



## cruisin (Jun 2, 2009)

Most availability 13 months out on the Oregon coast for 2 bedrooms and larger is in throwaway territory if you want to book a week starting on the 4th of july weekend (July 2,3,4) exceptions are depoe bay and gleneden phase 2 or back building. Most inventory could have been booked a week earlier, if you wanted to book say June 28th-5th of July.


----------



## melschey (Jun 2, 2009)

cruisin said:


> Most availability 13 months out on the Oregon coast for 2 bedrooms and larger is in throwaway territory if you want to book a week starting on the 4th of july weekend (July 2,3,4) exceptions are depoe bay and gleneden phase 2 or back building. Most inventory could have been booked a week earlier, if you wanted to book say June 28th-5th of July.



If you get on the wait list at the 13 month mark you will eventually get a reservation as there are many cancellations in the WM system. That said if you want the Oregon coast during the summer you will have to work for it. It is a lot harder that it used to be but is quite possible if you learn the system.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

This is a 2 year old post, just doing this for fun, not a perfect science, but the oregon coast is a good test case to check summer availability year to year, and see what is going on with the club.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

Hurry, all 2 bedrooms or larger, all room types at seaside are in throwaway days next year, all Gleneden and Schooner 2bedrooms and larger are gone, Only the 2 bedroom special needs and 2 bedroom phase 2 at depoe bay can be booked 13 months out right now, if you want a 4th of July without waitlisting, there are a few units if you get up at 6 AM, they will be gone early I am sure. You would think that with the economy down it might be a little slower than last year, It may be that all the credits being sold and underutilized from the newer inflated resorts, and being booked at the traditional credit value resorts, are too blame. Scary to think what the Oregon Coast will look like in a good economy, Yikes!

With more inventory available (depoe bay is back to full strength, construction ends this summer) things are looking worse than last year.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 9, 2009)

No problems booking Depoe Bay 13 months out.

What upgrades were done to Depoe Bay ?

Thanks


----------



## cruisin (Jun 10, 2009)

cruisin said:


> June 8,2008
> 
> 
> 4th of july, 2009 Oregon coast
> ...




I am 2 days off of last years post, and things went about the same as last year, the 4th booked a little faster, but marginally so. Again, the week or 2 after the 4th of July are good times to book for the next summer without throwaway days. Except for the really prime ocean front units and the 3 bedroom Phase 1 at depoe bay, everything is available right now. At 6 am tomorrow, the 3 bedroom phase 1 depoe bay units have  availability


----------



## ecwinch (Jun 10, 2009)

Now that you have accumulated 12 months of data what thesis are we proving?

Is it: In a club with a growing membership, the increase in competition for desirable resorts has a direct correlation to the growth in membership?

If I was to conduct the same study on availability of Westin St. John (WSJ) for StarOptions points members, would I observe the same trend?

NOTE: This would be the availability of WSJ to StarOptions members that have points at resorts other than WSJ.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 10, 2009)

Actually, I just got tired of the debate on oregon coast availability and thought it would be interesting to see the trends, My unscientific opinion so far is that the 4th booked a tiny bit faster this year, but things this week look the same as last year. Things usually hit high gear the 4th and 2 weekends after the 4th. I had a 1 month gap last summer  in the data, ( a persons gotta vacation) . Its always more fun to know the facts than guess, then we can argue for another year about what caused it


----------



## ecwinch (Jun 11, 2009)

Mea culpa... I read the title the thread and the post, and assumed something.

Thanks...


----------



## cruisin (Jul 7, 2009)

cruisin said:


> Availability this evening when I checked, 2 bedroom or larger  units oregon coast 13 months out availability to book Aug 5th,2009
> 
> Depoe Bay= 0 available most need 2 throwaway
> Gleneden=0 availabler most need 2 throwaway
> ...




This year for oregon coast 2 bedroom or bigger

Schooner = 3 units available
Depoe bay=0available
Gleneden= 0 Available
seaside =  2 bed deluxe= 5+(blue) available
2 bed less desirable =2 available

Almost all 3 bedrooms are 2-3 throwaway days away
Almost all 2 bedrooms are are available to book in the morning at 6AM

Things are booking a little slower this year, if you book at 6am, you can get a 2 bedroom unit at most resorts without throwaway days this year


----------



## herindoors911 (Jul 11, 2009)

easyrider said:


> No problems booking Depoe Bay 13 months out.
> 
> What upgrades were done to Depoe Bay ?
> 
> Thanks



I don't believe there were "upgrades" -- refurb of faulty construction more like it.   This involved two or three buildings being closed down at a time.

Front desk area has been redone, and some of the common areas.


----------



## cruisin (Jul 12, 2009)

the only 2 bedroom or larger unit available to book without throwaway days at the moment is a 2 bedroom less desirable at Seaside. 

Still a lot available at 6AM tomorrow morning to book without throwaway days.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 1, 2010)

*No 2 or 3 bedrooms available on the Oregon coast*

It happened Earlier this year, and I am sure Seaside Booking closure is impacting greatly, but no 2 or 3 bedrooms on the Oregon coast available without throwaway days most are 1 and 2 throwaway days. Set your clocks for the 3rd, There will be a little 4th of july inventory. It will be a long long summer for trying to get Oregon coast without Seaside inventory...........


----------



## stang99_tls (Jun 2, 2010)

that's why I booked the 2nd week in June.  The earlier in the summer you book the more availability.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 4, 2010)

No rooms on the Oregon Coast  of any kind 13 months out can be booked at the moment without throwaway days. By far the worst its ever been at this date, It has to be due to Seaside inventory not being available to book.


----------



## mshatty (Jun 5, 2010)

cruisin said:


> No rooms on the Oregon Coast  of any kind 13 months out can be booked at the moment without throwaway days. By far the worst its ever been at this date, It has to be due to Seaside inventory not being available to book.



On June 1, 2010, I booked the last 2 BR twin Phase 1 at Depoe Bay for check in on 7/1/2011.  No throwaway days were required.  I booked it online just as reservations opened.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 5, 2010)

Usually its decent unitl the 3rd week in july, but Seaside is about 50% of the oregon coast availability, so it is putting a crunch on the other resorts, when they open seaside back up, it will probably only have 50% of the rooms released, they have to shut down large sections for damage repairs, and they have to find rooms for all the fractional ownerships, glad I am not  the manager at seaside 

Booking is fine starting today 13 months out until the next Friday available at 13 months comes along and books out a week.


----------

