# Microwave tripping circuit breaker



## WinniWoman (Oct 5, 2014)

We renovated our kitchen back in the spring. We purchased for the first time an above range GE microwave. We had an electrician come in and he basically just moved the electric box that was for our previous range hood up a few inches for use for the microwave. It is 15 AMP. He told us we should be ok with the microwave on that line as long as nothing else would be used on the same circuit. We were good with that because the only outlets on that line were in our dining room and living room and we never have anything plugged into them.

About a month after use, the microwave tripped the circuit breaker one time. Then about two months after constant use it happened once again. And a month later it happened again  So, basically it has happened 3 times in 6 months. We are heavy microwave users.

Does anyone know why this would happen? Again, nothing else is used on that 15 AMP line and it has only happened a few times.


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## SmithOp (Oct 5, 2014)

Some cycles like defrost have a lot of on/off surges, see if you notice what cycle you are using next time.  The breaker can get weak when old too, a new 15a is cheap at HD, pay cash


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## ronparise (Oct 5, 2014)

You have demonstrated that this website is correct 
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/electrical/a/artkiteleccode.htm


7.  Microwave Circuit
One 20-amp, 120-volt dedicated circuit wired with 12/2 cable. Should not be GFCI.


if the wire is 12 gage, just replace the breaker...if not add a new circuit.


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## PigsDad (Oct 5, 2014)

I think it is time you found yourself a new electrician. 

While older / smaller microwaves might have been ok with a 15A circuit, 20A dedicated circuit is what you need.  A good electrician would have known that.

Kurt


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## tompalm (Oct 6, 2014)

ronparise said:


> You have demonstrated that this website is correct
> http://homerenovations.about.com/od/electrical/a/artkiteleccode.htm
> 
> 
> ...



Good advice above.  However, it might be expensive and difficult to rewire with 12/2.  If the house has 14 gage wire, you might want to buy a smaller microwave.  The bigger the microwave, the more power it uses.  Maybe the microwave is on the edge of blowing the breaker if it happens occasionally and you could get by with a smaller microwave that would be a lot cheaper than a rewire.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 6, 2014)

I have an above the range convection oven & microwave - I put in a NEW circuit for that toy. I also have a smaller counter microwave - seems I use both at the same time - the joys of modern times.

Yes, the new and above range units REALLY need the heavier wiring (12 gauge) and heavier & bigger circuit breakers. The little (and I mean little) microwaves have less draw - 800AM verses the 1000-1200+ watts.


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## theo (Oct 6, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> The little (and I mean little) microwaves have less draw - *800AM verses the 1000-1200+ amps*.



I think you probably mean watts, not amps , in the above highlighted statement. 

A microwave involving 1000 amps would be able to cook your home's entire contents and structure and probably much of the surrounding neighborhood as well.


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## csxjohn (Oct 6, 2014)

Before you buy a new microwave or re-wire, take the advice above and and buy a new breaker, they do get old and weak.  Or just switch with another 15amp breaker in the box to see if the other one trips too.

Then you can decide on a course of action if the replacement breaker also trips.


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## Passepartout (Oct 6, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Before you buy a new microwave or re-wire, take the advice above and and buy a new breaker, they do get old and weak.  Or just switch with another 15amp breaker in the box to see if the other one trips too.
> 
> Then you can decide on a course of action if the replacement breaker also trips.



I would also start by replacing the breaker. True, the circuit has marginal capacity, but a new breaker might provide the necessary safety, while not tripping at the slightest surge of power use.

Jim


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## PigsDad (Oct 6, 2014)

theo said:


> I think you probably mean watts, not amps , in the above highlighted statement.
> 
> A microwave involving 1000 amps would be able to cook your home's entire contents and structure and probably much of the surrounding neighborhood as well.



But just think how fast you could pop popcorn! 

Kurt


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I already paid a nice chunk for this microwave and it is built in above the range now, so getting another microwave is not something I would want to do.

Rewiring was thought about during the renovation, but it was not practical because of the fact that there is no attic or basement access and the breaker box is clear across the other side of our house in the garage. Not sure, but we might have 14 gauge wire.

The house is 27 years old, so maybe we need a new breaker and that would be the least expensive thing to try. I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks again.


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## Kal (Oct 6, 2014)

Go to one of the connection boxes on that circuit and examine the exposed sheathed wire.  It will have the wire gauge printed on the sheath.  If it's 14 ga, that's a bad deal.  If it's 12 ga, then think about replacing the individual 15A breaker for that circuit.  If that cures the problem, great!  If not, think about installing a 20A breaker.  Just make exact confirmation what the circuit powers.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

Kal said:


> Go to one of the connection boxes on that circuit and examine the exposed sheathed wire.  It will have the wire gauge printed on the sheath.  If it's 14 ga, that's a bad deal.  If it's 12 ga, then think about replacing the individual 15A breaker for that circuit.  If that cures the problem, great!  If not, think about installing a 20A breaker.  Just make exact confirmation what the circuit powers.



Would a 14 gauge wire be ok for a 20 amp circuit?


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## Kal (Oct 6, 2014)

Putting 20A CBs on AWG14 wires is a (theoretical) FIRE HAZARD


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## ronparise (Oct 6, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Would a 14 gauge wire be ok for a 20 amp circuit?



Ive replaced 15 amp breakers on 14 gage circuits and gotten away with it ...so far. No fires yet. ... its up to you

Forget about the attic or basement...run the new wire (if needed) in conduit either along the baseboards through the house, or outside


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## Kal (Oct 6, 2014)

If you sell the home and an inspector finds the AWG 14 wire with a 20A CB you would likely have to correct the code violation before the sale could be completed.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 6, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> We renovated our kitchen back in the spring. We purchased for the first time an above range GE microwave. We had an electrician come in and he basically just moved the electric box that was for our previous range hood up a few inches for use for the microwave. It is 15 AMP. He told us we should be ok with the microwave on that line as long as nothing else would be used on the same circuit. We were good with that because the only outlets on that line were in our dining room and living room and we never have anything plugged into them.
> 
> About a month after use, the microwave tripped the circuit breaker one time. Then about two months after constant use it happened once again. And a month later it happened again  So, basically it has happened 3 times in 6 months. We are heavy microwave users.
> 
> Does anyone know why this would happen? Again, nothing else is used on that 15 AMP line and it has only happened a few times.



Okay ... Did the electrician invoice you to MOVE the hardwired line (which most likely was wired directly into the old range hood? Did he on the written invoice note "Moved existing electric circuit to install box in cabinet for new microwave range hood."? Did you have the new microwave range hood on site for the electrician's inspection?

If you can ANSWER *YES* to all of the 3 above questions, call him back and ask him to return and checkout a problem YOU are having with that line. *Do NOT go into detail* ... after all, you are a woman and not an electrician. (My favorite line is, "yee, I don't understand that technical stuff. I am a housewife/homemaker/secretary". And that is WHY you paid him to move the electric line for the microwave. If you go into detail, he WILL NOT return ... he will know WHAT has to be done and you most likely were NOT billed for the REAL WORK he should have done. 

_If YOU had the NEW APPLIANCE onsite and he simply did NOT look at it after you pointed and told him, "there it is, right there in the box with the instructions"_ ... you got yourself a LAZY dude. I could call him other names, but no one has been physically hurt or DIED YET. 

So, either risk YOUR family's life and limb by jury-rigging the circuit breaker or do the job right ..... but if you are a member of Angie's List, review him with what he did NOT do.  

_If you did NOT have the new appliance on site and there for his review_, YOU might best get another electrician to do a proper (and safe) job.


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## camachinist (Oct 6, 2014)

OP, I had a similar issue on one of my rehabs and, as suggested, replaced the old breaker with a NOS (new old stock) one since they were out of production at the time. That solved the problem. Apparently, my microwave I was using while working on the property used more wattage than what my tenants now use, because they have other counter appliances plugged in and have never complained in two years. 

Usually what we do on houses with slabs and flat or low pitched roofs when running another circuit is put it up high in PVC under the eves and then drop it and chase it through the wall where we want the circuit to go. Bit of work but gets the job done. I'd only do that as a last resort, leaving the old follow-on to the dining room on the old breaker and replacing the Jbox as appropriate to handle the new wire compliment. Try a new breaker first.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... Did the electrician invoice you to MOVE the hardwired line (which most likely was wired directly into the old range hood? Did he on the written invoice note "Moved existing electric circuit to install box in cabinet for new microwave range hood."? Did you have the new microwave range hood on site for the electrician's inspection?
> 
> If you can ANSWER *YES* to all of the 3 above questions, call him back and ask him to return and checkout a problem YOU are having with that line. *Do NOT go into detail* ... after all, you are a woman and not an electrician. (My favorite line is, "yee, I don't understand that technical stuff. I am a housewife/homemaker/secretary". And that is WHY you paid him to move the electric line for the microwave. If you go into detail, he WILL NOT return ... he will know WHAT has to be done and you most likely were NOT billed for the REAL WORK he should have done.
> 
> ...



I have to dig out the invoice to see exactly what was written on it and I will be able to tell from the date whether or not we had the microwave on site at the time. I don't remember, but I think we did because we needed to have everything on site before any kitchen work began. But I do know we had the discussion about the wire and the circuit and that he said there would be no safety issues. He said as long as we didn't have anything plugged into the outlets in the dining room and living room when using the microwave we would be fine. We never have anything plugged in so I was fine with it.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

Kal said:


> If you sell the home and an inspector finds the AWG 14 wire with a 20A CB you would likely have to correct the code violation before the sale could be completed.



I don't think an electrician will do that anyway if it is a code violation. The company we used is well-known up here for many years and we have also used them in the past. Our kitchen reno guy even recommended using him.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Ive replaced 15 amp breakers on 14 gage circuits and gotten away with it ...so far. No fires yet. ... its up to you
> 
> Forget about the attic or basement...run the new wire (if needed) in conduit either along the baseboards through the house, or outside



This is what I currently have (I believe). I was asking about a 20 amp circuit with a 14 gauge wire.


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## easyrider (Oct 6, 2014)

Stab lock breakers are notorious for this type of problem. 

It looks like you have 120 volts x 15 amps so you should max out with a full draw of a 1800 watt appliance if everything is working properly then deduct 20% for safety , or 360 watts and you have the ability to use 1440 watts which should be plenty for most over the range type microwaves.

Bill


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## zinger1457 (Oct 6, 2014)

What does GE list for the power requirements in the manual provided with the microwave?  I have a GE Profile above range microwave and it calls for a separate 15A circuit which is what I have and I've never had any problems.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 6, 2014)

We have the microwave on our whole house generator and my husband says the circuit breaker it trips is the generator one, not the main box one. We made sure to have the electrician put it on the whole house generator when he was here doing the work. I guess that would make sense as anything on the generator is automatically on that circuit box. Nothing else in the house has ever tripped, but I suppose it anything did it would trip on that box. 

The booklet does say 15 amps is required, which is what we have and like I said before, although other outlets are on it, they are rarely, if ever used and weren't in use when the microwave tripped the breaker. This GE microwave was one of only like 2 or 3 that was recommended by Consumer reports.

The invoice from the electrician says "Installation of microwave/hood fan outlet using existing dining room circuit; replacement of dining room circuit breaker if wire size permits. Relocate dining room circuit from main circuit breaker to generator panel." This was written up on 3/6 and the work done 3/25. The microwave was here when the work was done, as I see it was delivered on 3/20,

Darnedest thing. It might just be that it is a 14 gauge wire. Or, I wonder if a wire could be loose somewhere?


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## Kal (Oct 6, 2014)

Do I understand you to say:

 - The power is supplied by a generator
 - The generator supplies power to the whole house
 - The microwave is the only electrical item drawing current in the entire house when the generator breaker releases.  No lights are on?

 What wire gauge does the current travel from the generator connection to the microwave?


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## easyrider (Oct 6, 2014)

The wire size is not the issue. It is posibly the sensitivity of the generator circuitry or possibly a line 2 used as a ground. Hard to say.

Time to call the electrician to make sure its ok.

Bill


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## WinniWoman (Oct 7, 2014)

easyrider said:


> The wire size is not the issue. It is posibly the sensitivity of the generator circuitry or possibly a line 2 used as a ground. Hard to say.
> 
> Time to call the electrician to make sure its ok.
> 
> Bill



Yup. I have a call into the electrician and waiting to hear back. Thanks.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 7, 2014)

Kal said:


> Do I understand you to say:
> 
> - The power is supplied by a generator
> - The generator supplies power to the whole house
> ...




No. No. Power is not supplied by generator- only if we lose power, of course, then the generator services almost the whole house.

And- when the generator breaker releases, the microwave is the only thing running on the circuit it is on, no lights, nothing, but there are, of course, other things running on other circuits.

As for the wire, all I know is the microwave is most likely on a 14 gauge wire to the regular circuit box. I do not know anything about wiring from that box to the generator box, but I do have a call into the electrician.

Thanks, everyone!


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## csxjohn (Oct 7, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Would a 14 gauge wire be ok for a 20 amp circuit?





Kal said:


> Putting 20A CBs on AWG14 wires is a (theoretical) FIRE HAZARD



Nothing theoretical about it.

Any wire will only handle so many amps before it heats up to the burning point.

#14 wire could over load and heat up and burn before a 20 amp breaker would trip.  

Let,s say you had enough stuff on that line to be drawing 18 amps.  The smaller #14 wire is not thick enough to carry that load consistently but the breaker will not trip.

#12 wire will handle the load put on it before a 20 amp breaker will trip.

Do not use a 20 amp breaker to protect 14 ga. wire.  I'm not saying it will burst into flames but if enough things are in use on that line to be drawing between 15 and 20 amps the wire will be gettting hotter than it's designed to without the breaker tripping.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 7, 2014)

As a woman, I had to understand with electrical wire ... the smaller the number is the heavier the wire. #12 gauge is thicker the #14 gauge wire.


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## PigsDad (Oct 7, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> As a woman, I had to understand with electrical wire ... the smaller the number is the heavier the wire. #12 gauge is thicker the #14 gauge wire.



In most instances where "gauge" is used as a measurement of size or thickness, smaller numbers mean larger / thicker size than larger numbers.  Wire, sheet metal, shotgun, etc.

Maybe men's pants sizes should be in gauge instead of inches. :rofl:

Kurt


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 7, 2014)

PigsDad said:


> In most instances where "gauge" is used as a measurement of size or thickness, smaller numbers mean larger / thicker size than larger numbers.  Wire, sheet metal, shotgun, etc.
> 
> Maybe men's pants sizes should be in gauge instead of inches. :rofl:
> 
> Kurt



My point was women clothes sizes....


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## ronparise (Oct 7, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> As a woman, I had to understand with electrical wire ... the smaller the number is the heavier the wire. #12 gauge is thicker the #14 gauge wire.



We all had to learn this Linda....I finally got the numbers,  but the letters still throw me.    I still have to learn how to spell..... gauge


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## csxjohn (Oct 7, 2014)

ronparise said:


> We all had to learn this Linda....I finally got the numbers,  but the letters still throw me.    I still have to learn how to spell..... gauge



That's why I say #12 and #14 wire.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 15, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Nothing theoretical about it.
> 
> Any wire will only handle so many amps before it heats up to the burning point.
> 
> ...



Well, FINALLY, the electrician got around to coming back out to check this. He had my husband put the microwave on and tested the breaker and then he replaced it with a 20 amp (on the generator box). He said the wire was thick enough to handle the 20 amp. He was here all of 5 minutes! Hopefully, he is correct. He has been in business forever and is very much trusted in the business.


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## isisdave (Oct 16, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> We have the microwave on our whole house generator and my husband says the circuit breaker it trips is the generator one, not the main box one.



Ah -- this is important and you should have mentioned it first.

What does "the generator one" mean? A breaker that's part of the generator? A sub-panel main breaker? Or just the individual breaker in the sub-panel?

Random idea #1 -- some breakers are just a little flakey near their limit, especially when the load comes on suddenly as happens with microwaves. I like the idea to swap with another identical one on another circuit, and/or just replace it and see if it's better.

Does the breaker feel warm to the touch right after breaking? That's a clue that another one might work better.

Random idea #2 -- does the breaker trip when the weather is warm? Breakers work on a magnetic/heat combination, and they will trip more easily in warm conditions. Is there adequate ventilation at the panel?


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## Kal (Oct 16, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> ...He said the wire was thick enough to handle the 20 amp. He was here all of 5 minutes!...



 Wonder if he is even aware of the electrical code for wire size?


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## camachinist (Oct 16, 2014)

Since the breaker was on the genset line, hopefully the electrician checked the full-load voltage on the isolated genset circuit when operating. I mention this because, if there's a voltage drop and appliance demand remains constant (volts x amps = watts), then something has to give and that's amps, which will rise in a low-voltage situation. More amps = more current = more heat = greater likelihood of a weak link showing up, either purposefully like a breaker, or incidentally like a connection point overheating and failing.

Here's what I use when troubleshooting:

http://www.amazon.com/Fieldpiece-SC...3475233&sr=8-5&keywords=fieldpiece+multimeter

It's designed for HVAC but works great for general electrical too. I like the temp probe because it can be used to isolate problem areas and does so much better than my infrared thermometer. I originally bought the stuff when first starting to rehab houses and doing pre-purchase inspections of critical systems, windows and insulation. Work great and fast too.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 16, 2014)

camachinist said:


> Since the breaker was on the genset line, hopefully the electrician checked the full-load voltage on the isolated genset circuit when operating. I mention this because, if there's a voltage drop and appliance demand remains constant (volts x amps = watts), then something has to give and that's amps, which will rise in a low-voltage situation. More amps = more current = more heat = greater likelihood of a weak link showing up, either purposefully like a breaker, or incidentally like a connection point overheating and failing.
> 
> Here's what I use when troubleshooting:
> 
> ...



Well, as I mentioned he had my husband use the microwave and then he ran a test at the circuit breaker (the generator one, as the microwave is connected to the whole house generator in case of a power outage) My husband questioned if the wire there could handle the 20 amps and he said yes. My husband looked at the wire and thinks it's ok also. But this is the extent of my knowledge about this.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 16, 2014)

isisdave said:


> Ah -- this is important and you should have mentioned it first.
> 
> What does "the generator one" mean? A breaker that's part of the generator? A sub-panel main breaker? Or just the individual breaker in the sub-panel?
> 
> ...




The breaker on the generator panel. The panel is in the garage. It tripped just 3 times from May to Sept. Didn't notice the breaker being warm to the touch.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 16, 2014)

Kal said:


> Wonder if he is even aware of the electrical code for wire size?



I can't imagine him not knowing. He is the owner of this business for many, many years and does a lot of work around here with contractors, etc.


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## Kal (Oct 16, 2014)

Wonder how you can hold him legally liable if there is a fire resulting from the code violation?  In such an instance your insurance company would very likely deny coverage on the claim.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 17, 2014)

Kal said:


> Wonder how you can hold him legally liable if there is a fire resulting from the code violation?  In such an instance your insurance company would very likely deny coverage on the claim.



You think this is a code violation? Why would he do something like that? I was willing to live with it the way it was, since it only happened a few times. He tested the load, etc. He could have easily said he couldn't do much about it. He knew the situation with the house wiring set up limitations.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 17, 2014)

I have own different houses & buildings over the YEARS. I even had a electrician who rented his business space from me. Trust me -- electricians are in business to make money.

If your house was wired in the 1950s or 1960s, it is OLD wiring. To rewire to TODAY'S appliance and lifestyle usage, most people would look at the estimate and FAINT. If it is a 1970's house -- it is worst - it could be aluminum wire! That you absolutely NEED to replace or use certain connections ALWAYS - that wiring does NOT play nicely.

Codes change all the time -- it used to be 10 outlets or ceiling lights per circuit --- last I heard it is now down to 6 or fewer. Certain appliances (microwaves) should be on single circuits --- okay, that usually does NOT happen in the real world.

So back to my electrician - the old guy. Yes, he could get things to work and I expected them to be legal and right. That is CALLED "expectations" ==> get it? 

I install battery SMOKE Detector in almost every room; I make sure my fire alarm company inspects stuff every 12 months or less in hard wired buildings (again CODE). Just today, my alarm company is spending $3000 of my money to install a monitored smoke detector system in a basement in a 2 family building per CODE - as I have a 400 sq ft storefront in the same building (called a "windowless basement" - it is a basement which has windows - but not windows (not talking about egress, it has a door to the outside). It has to be monitored via 2 hard wired phone LINES or a cellular setup with two lines & an extended outdoor antenea. The monitoring will cost me $40 MONTHLY ($500 per year). And I have ANOTHER 2 systems which must be installed in another building (yes, 1 building .. 2 separate systems & 2 separate alarm monitoring monthly bills). 

Then, there are the Carbon Monoxide detector regulations.

The above is a law in my state - that is their expectations.


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## Kal (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> You think this is a code violation? Why would he do something like that? I was willing to live with it the way it was, since it only happened a few times. He tested the load, etc. He could have easily said he couldn't do much about it. He knew the situation with the house wiring set up limitations.


 
 You might want to check the wiring CODE yourself.  Breaker size for 14 gauge wire.

 Sometimes you see crusty old journeymen who live by the axiom: 

_"don't need no stinkin' regulations!  I know better than those desk jockeys"_

 Or just ask him the question, will he provide written certification that his repair work is in full compliance with all building codes.


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## PigsDad (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> You think this is a code violation? Why would he do something like that? I was willing to live with it the way it was, since it only happened a few times. He tested the load, etc. He could have easily said he couldn't do much about it. He knew the situation with the house wiring set up limitations.



For me, what raises a red flag is that there was a 15A breaker in place previously.  Why would a 15A breaker been installed originally if the circuit was wired with #12 wire?  Normally a 15A breaker would indicate they used #14 wire.

Are you _absolutely positive_ that circuit has #12 wire?  It could very well the case, but if it were my house and given the old 15A breaker that was installed, I would have insisted that they physically show me the wire gauge in this case.  I would not have taken the word of any electrician, no matter how experienced.

Kurt


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## Ron98GT (Oct 17, 2014)

Hmm.  In the old days, people would put a penny behind the fuse in the fuse box/panel.  Now people (electricians?) just put a lager amp breaker in the breaker box for the overloaded circuit.  Same affect though - FIRE. 

FYI:  If you go to GE's website, the 1100 & 1200 watt over the range MW's are rate at 15 amps.


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## camachinist (Oct 17, 2014)

One of my rentals was wired entirely with 12 gauge wire, except the 30A/50A 220 circuits, which were 10 gauge or 8 gauge, depending on run length/amperage, and even had ground wires in the original romex (uncommon for a house built in 1947). They simply used one gauge and installed fuses as the code of the day indicated. Some were 15 and some were 20. When a prior electrician upgraded the inside fuse service to outside breakers, they mimicked the circuit layout and installed breakers of similar amperages. 

As someone who works with electricity in heavy industry and on mobile equipment which services high voltage equipment, we've pretty much seen it all and IME, something has to go really wrong to burn a house down from electrical fault. There are simply too many redundancies built in. I saw one in the rental I rehabbed, in that a badly wired ceiling box (too many connections and using improper wire gauge for the box size) caused a box fire, even though no electrical circuits were disabled, but the totally enclosed 'old' bakelite box completely contained the fire and the combination of the plaster ceiling and rock wool insulation in the attic left no external evidence of it. We only found it when rewiring the kitchen and were in the process of relocating said ceiling box. That's typical of my experience, and I have a fair amount of it.

With new romex, generally the gauge is printed on the outer sheath, with 14-2NM (14 gauge, 2 conductor, non-metallic) being a commonly used type. With older romex, the kind with fabric insulating materials, often the printing is hard to read. That's where a machinist's caliper comes in handy. In this case, .064" would be 14 gauge and .081" would be 12 gauge. That might not seem like a lot of difference, only .017", but we machinists have a discerning eye 

Edited to add, for those who don't have calipers or have a hard time reading them and are unclear as to what wire size one is working with, one quick and dirty method of checking is to simply take a typical electrical receptacle which has the push-in wire holes and is rated for 14gauge wire (it'll be printed both on the box the receptacle comes in and on the receptacle itself) and try to push the wire through the hole. The 12gauge wire won't go through the hole. Caution: if you happen to have circuits wired with 12gauge wire and with 20amp breakers, or even if the breaker is 15amp, be sure to purchase 20 amp receptacles, since 15 amp receptacles are the most commonly sold. Yes, one can always use the screw terminals on a 14gauge receptacle but that's a non-conforming use. In practice, the breaker should always be the 'weakest link' in the chain of redundancy in the wiring system. If the appliance fries, well that's another matter


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## easyrider (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Well, as I mentioned he had my husband use the microwave and then he ran a test at the circuit breaker (the generator one, as the microwave is connected to the whole house generator in case of a power outage) My husband questioned if the wire there could handle the 20 amps and he said yes. My husband looked at the wire and thinks it's ok also. But this is the extent of my knowledge about this.



Well there you go.  If your husband, who may have a little more insight in this matter than you, and the electrian, who deffinatly has more insight than you, both agree that the wire and breaker are fine, its FINE ! 

None of us here knows so rest assured if fine.

I remember the days when a penny or some foil would be used as a temporary fuse.  What can you do when you run out of fuses and need to finish dinner ? 

Bill


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## WinniWoman (Oct 17, 2014)

I am pretty sure it is a 14 gauge wire because on the original estimate for the new kitchen electrical work he wrote he would replace the breaker depending on the size of the wire and his employees did not replace it, so that tells me they didn't do it because it is a 14 gauge wire. I do remember us talking to them about it. Wiring could not be replaced because of the structure of the house (no attic, no basement, location of breaker box, etc. etc. So they just used the box that the original range hood/light was on and adjusted the height for the microwave. But they said the microwave-even though it was not on it's own dedicated line-should be fine because there were only dining room outlets on that circuit that we never use for anything. 

All was fine with the microwave except on those 3 occasions in the past 5 months where it tripped the breaker. Then I called the owner and he came out this week, tested the load with the microwave running and changed the breaker to 20 amp. My husband is not knowledgeable at all about electricity. He just said to me he "saw" the wire and it looks ok- he doesn't know- -just wants to keep me from nagging him-he said it was a thick wire!

I am trying to just put faith in the electrician. Why would he risk fire if all he had to do was tell me it has to stay with the 15 amp? It's not like he charged me for coming out or for the new breaker.

PS our original house wiring is from 1987. The generator was installed maybe 7+ years ago or so,


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 17, 2014)

You could always upgrade your fire alarm system & have it monitored. 

I hate it when stuff like this happens - the simple correction to a mechanic is not what the code might be "today". 

I can hear the excuses now:
They installed a new/different microwave - that was not the one I installed.

Now, if he had installed a NEW 15AMP breaker as he felt the OLDER one was "in its decline" or "was flakely due to age" or "let's try a new 15 amp breaker -- it could just be the breaker" ... 

BUT if the problem continued, then the microwave was too big of a draw for the approved wiring & circuit -- WHAT would you do?. And like you said, to replace the wiring is not easy or cheap .... Would you replace the microwave to a smaller watt draw? 


*PS *.... Does this new microwave/rangehood have LED lights or halogen? If halogen .. it could be the BLUBs drawing too much current ... they run HOT.


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## Kal (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> ...I am trying to just put faith in the electrician...


 
 Better than a bunch of time share owners!


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## Ron98GT (Oct 17, 2014)

Is this Electrician licensed, in your state?  His he certified, in your state? Is he a contractor (licensed & certified), in your state?  Or, is he a handyman?  If the work was done by a handyman, calling himself an electrician, I'd worry, a lot, because it's doubtful that he knows the codes & standards.  If he's licensed an/or certified, I'd have a little more confidence in his work and ability.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 17, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> Is this Electrician licensed, in your state?  His he certified, in your state? Is he a contractor (licensed & certified), in your state?  Or, is he a handyman?  If the work was done by a handyman, calling himself an electrician, I'd worry, a lot, because it's doubtful that he knows the codes & standards.  If he's licensed an/or certified, I'd have a little more confidence in his work and ability.



No, no. This is a licensed electrician that has a very reputable business for many years in our area. I called him today to voice some of the concerns I have after reading the TUG posts here-fire, selling the house down the road, etc.   

First off he said that I do have a 14 gauge wire going from the microwave to the circuit breaker box. However, the wire from that box to the Generator circuit box is 10 gauge. (hence why my husband said the wire was very thick). He said he looked up the code and 14 gauge wire goes with 20 amp circuit breaker, but you have to allow for 80% which brings it down to 16 amps (rounded to 15 amps, which is why 15 amps was on the box.) But, when he did the load test, the microwave was drawing 14 amps, so considering that we only use the microwave to heat things up in short time lengths and nothing else is used on that circuit, we are fine. (He also said that 12 gauge wire requires 25 amps by code). He said if it was his own house he would do the same thing he did on our box. The only other alternative would be to tear all my walls down to replace the entire wire as I mentioned which is impractical and expensive (and we have already renovated and completed the kitchen anyway) and he doesn't think it is necessary to tolerate the occasional tripped breaker from a 15 amp one.

I am going to just relax about it at this point. I will check about the lighting- good point someone suggested here. I will make sure I do not have the light or vent on when I microwave food as well and microwave at a lower power other than high. Just be very conscious.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 17, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> You could always upgrade your fire alarm system & have it monitored.
> 
> I hate it when stuff like this happens - the simple correction to a mechanic is not what the code might be "today".
> 
> ...



I do have a monitored fire alarm and burglar alarm system! LOL! The generator and regular breaker are not old- about 7-10 years or so. (We upgraded everything when we put the whole house generator and central AC in 7-10 years ago (can't remember exactly how many years ago))

I have to check about the light bulbs. 

OK- I checked the manual and the bulb underneath the microwave- the night light that shines over the range- that is a Halogen bulb- so I assume the one inside the microwave is as well- it is very tiny.  I guess I could just make sure not to have that light on when using the microwave. I don't keep that light on a lot anyway.


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## Ron98GT (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> No, no. This is a licensed electrician that has a very reputable business for many years in our area. I called him today to voice some of the concerns I have after reading the TUG posts here-fire, selling the house down the road, etc.
> 
> First off he said that I do have a 14 gauge wire going from the microwave to the circuit breaker box. However, the wire from that box to the Generator circuit box is 10 gauge. (hence why my husband said the wire was very thick). He said he looked up the code and 14 gauge wire goes with 20 amp circuit breaker, but you have to allow for 80% which brings it down to 16 amps (rounded to 15 amps, which is why 15 amps was on the box.) But, when he did the load test, the microwave was drawing 14 amps, so considering that we only use the microwave to heat things up in short time lengths and nothing else is used on that circuit, we are fine. (He also said that 12 gauge wire requires 25 amps by code). He said if it was his own house he would do the same thing he did on our box. The only other alternative would be to tear all my walls down to replace the entire wire as I mentioned which is impractical and expensive (and we have already renovated and completed the kitchen anyway) and he doesn't think it is necessary to tolerate the occasional tripped breaker from a 15 amp one.
> 
> I am going to just relax about it at this point. I will check about the lighting- good point someone suggested here. I will make sure I do not have the light or vent on when I microwave food as well and microwave at a lower power other than high. Just be very conscious.


It's good your asking questions.


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## csxjohn (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> No, no. This is a licensed electrician that has a very reputable business for many years in our area. I called him today to voice some of the concerns I have after reading the TUG posts here-fire, selling the house down the road, etc.
> 
> First off he said that I do have a 14 gauge wire going from the microwave to the circuit breaker box. However, the wire from that box to the Generator circuit box is 10 gauge. (hence why my husband said the wire was very thick). He said he looked up the code and 14 gauge wire goes with 20 amp circuit breaker, but you have to allow for 80% which brings it down to 16 amps (rounded to 15 amps, which is why 15 amps was on the box.) But, when he did the load test, the microwave was drawing 14 amps, so considering that we only use the microwave to heat things up in short time lengths and nothing else is used on that circuit, we are fine. (He also said that 12 gauge wire requires 25 amps by code). He said if it was his own house he would do the same thing he did on our box. The only other alternative would be to tear all my walls down to replace the entire wire as I mentioned which is impractical and expensive (and we have already renovated and completed the kitchen anyway) and he doesn't think it is necessary to tolerate the occasional tripped breaker from a 15 amp one.
> 
> I am going to just relax about it at this point. I will check about the lighting- good point someone suggested here. I will make sure I do not have the light or vent on when I microwave food as well and microwave at a lower power other than high. Just be very conscious.



The breaker should be small enough to protect the thinnest wire in the run. Since the micro was drawing 14 amp I would put in a new 15 amp breaker and make sure nothing else is on.

I'm not an expert, just telling you what I would do.  In your case I would wait to see what camachinist has to say about your latest post.  He appears to be the resident expert in this thread.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> I am going to just relax about it at this point. I will check about the lighting- good point someone suggested here. I will make sure I do not have the light or vent on when I microwave food as well and microwave at a lower power other than high. Just be very conscious.



Lower power level may not help. It depends on the microwave. Many microwaves just cycle at lower powers. So if you set it at 50%, it runs at full power for 50% of the time and at 0 (hold) for the other 50%. This may cause more issues since it will spike the amperage draw and cause more breaker trips than less. Some other brands have different technology and actually run 100% of the time at a lower power, but these are not common. Panasonic is one brand that has these types of microwaves, but it may not be on all models.

Could you just buy a lower wattage microwave since all you really use it for is heating up foods now and then?


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## camachinist (Oct 17, 2014)

Generally, NEC 310.16 provides guidance for maximum over-current protection wire and breaker sizes. However, local codes may apply. Based on my read of 310.16, 12 gauge copper wire would be correct for a 20A branch circuit, based on a rated ampacity of 25A, modified by a correction factor of .82 for a 40C ambient operating temp, for a net ampacity of 20.5A. A 14 gauge wire at the same temp would have ampacity of 20A, modified similarly, for a net ampacity of 16.4A. This is based on a conductor temp rating for TW and UF conductors in standard cable and raceway applications. Other conductor/insulation types have different ampacities and temperature modifiers. I grabbed some romex out of the shop, along with some single conductors I use for 240-480 three phase and read them for conductor type and referenced the NEC for those. YMMV.  

NEC 220.21(b)(2)-(3) provides for receptacle sizes on branch circuits and, based on current code, I'll amend my prior advice to a 20 amp single receptacle being required if it is the only receptacle on the branch circuit; if using multiple receptacles (a duplex receptacle would be consider such), either 15A or 20A receptacles are acceptable. 

Hence, IMO, depending on conductor type, length of run and ambient temperature, the referenced installation, practically speaking (not code-speaking), is running at or near the 'edge' of what I'd be comfortable with.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 18, 2014)

camachinist said:


> Generally, NEC 310.16 provides guidance for maximum over-current protection wire and breaker sizes. However, local codes may apply. Based on my read of 310.16, 12 gauge copper wire would be correct for a 20A branch circuit, based on a rated ampacity of 25A, modified by a correction factor of .82 for a 40C ambient operating temp, for a net ampacity of 20.5A. A 14 gauge wire at the same temp would have ampacity of 20A, modified similarly, for a net ampacity of 16.4A. This is based on a conductor temp rating for TW and UF conductors in standard cable and raceway applications. Other conductor/insulation types have different ampacities and temperature modifiers. I grabbed some romex out of the shop, along with some single conductors I use for 240-480 three phase and read them for conductor type and referenced the NEC for those. YMMV.
> 
> NEC 220.21(b)(2)-(3) provides for receptacle sizes on branch circuits and, based on current code, I'll amend my prior advice to a 20 amp single receptacle being required if it is the only receptacle on the branch circuit; if using multiple receptacles (a duplex receptacle would be consider such), either 15A or 20A receptacles are acceptable.
> 
> Hence, IMO, depending on conductor type, length of run and ambient temperature, the referenced installation, practically speaking (not code-speaking), is running at or near the 'edge' of what I'd be comfortable with.



Thank you and everyone for your input. I guess what we have now is alright, but not ideal, from what I am getting from camachinest?


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## WinniWoman (Oct 18, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Lower power level may not help. It depends on the microwave. Many microwaves just cycle at lower powers. So if you set it at 50%, it runs at full power for 50% of the time and at 0 (hold) for the other 50%. This may cause more issues since it will spike the amperage draw and cause more breaker trips than less. Some other brands have different technology and actually run 100% of the time at a lower power, but these are not common. Panasonic is one brand that has these types of microwaves, but it may not be on all models.
> 
> Could you just buy a lower wattage microwave since all you really use it for is heating up foods now and then?



I am not sure about my microwave doing this. I just bought this microwave this past March as part of the kitchen renovation- it was a bit expensive and is over the range and one of like the only 2 or 3 recommended by Consumer Reports. We actually use it at least 2-5 times per day to heat things, just for maybe 2-3 minutes max on high or less power each time. The electrician said that it's not like we are cooking in it for hours, etc. , with it constantly drawing a lot of power for long periods of time. Nothing else is ever plugged into the dining room or living room outlets that are on the same circuit.


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## camachinist (Oct 18, 2014)

One last factor in its favor is if the micro receptacle is first in run, with other loads downstream. Shorter cable, no known interceding connections/junctions to possibly be substandard. If it were tail-end charlie on a 14 ga run I'd be more concerned. Apparently, these days (new construction), codes in our area are calling out one or more dedicated 20A circuits for kitchen, one for refer and others for counter appliances/microwave. Makes sense. 

Happy cooking!


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## Elan (Oct 18, 2014)

You could always spend $20 on a kill-a-watt, and know the draw of your microwave.  I believe they're good up to 15A, and extremely accurate.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## WinniWoman (Oct 18, 2014)

Elan said:


> You could always spend $20 on a kill-a-watt, and know the draw of your microwave.  I believe they're good up to 15A, and extremely accurate.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



Well, the electrician said it was drawing 14 amps.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 18, 2014)

camachinist said:


> One last factor in its favor is if the micro receptacle is first in run, with other loads downstream. Shorter cable, no known interceding connections/junctions to possibly be substandard. If it were tail-end charlie on a 14 ga run I'd be more concerned. Apparently, these days (new construction), codes in our area are calling out one or more dedicated 20A circuits for kitchen, one for refer and others for counter appliances/microwave. Makes sense.
> 
> Happy cooking!



I have no idea what you just said, except for the Happy cooking!, so I'll take it as a positive for our current situation. Thanks!


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## Elan (Oct 18, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Well, the electrician said it was drawing 14 amps.



  Sorry, I guess I missed that.  If the electrician measured 14A draw at max power, I'd not think twice about the situation.  Just keep it on a 15A breaker so that if you or anyone else forgets that it's on a shared circuit, and plugs something else in, the breaker will trip.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

Elan said:


> Sorry, I guess I missed that.  If the electrician measured 14A draw at max power, I'd not think twice about the situation.  Just keep it on a 15A breaker so that if you or anyone else forgets that it's on a shared circuit, and plugs something else in, the breaker will trip.



Thanks. But like I said, even though he originally left the breaker as 15A (which is on the whole house generator box with a 10 gauge wire going from the regular circuit breaker box) because we had a 14 gauge wire from the microwave to the regular circuit breaker box, the electrician came back this week and replaced the 15A with a 20A because the microwave has tripped the 15A three times in the last 5 months with nothing else operating on the same circuit. He was now able to test the load with the microwave on and it ran 14A so he said the 20A circuit breaker would be ok. We did not have the microwave hooked up yet during the initial electrical work for the new kitchen, so he didn't test the load at that time.(we did have the microwave on site however, and the booklet showed it could go on 15A or 20A depending on wire size). Most of the time-during those 5 months after the kitchen renovation was completed, using the microwave several times per day, we had no issues. But the electrician's solution to the occasional tripping was to replace the 15A with a 20A.

No one else is here but me and my husband and we are aware not to plug anything else in when using the microwave (heck- I am afraid to even put the light on now when operating the microwave after reading these posts!). Even before this we were very aware because we knew that it would definitely trip the 15A as per the electrician if we, let's say, used one of the dining room outlets, etc. Now with the 20A we are definitely even more conscious.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 19, 2014)

camachinist said:


> One last factor in its favor is if the micro receptacle is first in run (*first DEVICE off the wire from the electrical panel)* with other loads downstream. Shorter cable, no known interceding connections/junctions to possibly be substandard (*short line, no other drawers/users to connected - hence, no bad JUNCTIONS or TIE ins*). If it were tail-end Charlie *(LAST device on the line with other stuff before it - other junctions)* on a 14 ga run I'd be more concerned. Apparently, these days (new construction), codes in our area are calling out one or more dedicated 20A circuits for kitchen, one for refer *(refrigerator)* and others *(another circuit with a separate breaker)* for counter appliances/microwave. Makes sense.
> 
> Happy cooking!



Translation in *BOLD* for normal people...


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## zinger1457 (Oct 19, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> But the electrician's solution to the occasional tripping was to replace the 15A with a 20A.
> 
> No one else is here but me and my husband and we are aware not to plug anything else in when using the microwave (heck- I am afraid to even put the light on now when operating the microwave after reading these posts!). Even before this we were very aware because we knew that it would definitely trip the 15A as per the electrician if we, let's say, used one of the dining room outlets, etc. Now with the 20A we are definitely even more conscious.



You do realize what your electrician did is probably against local building code regulations?  If you were to sell your house you would probably be required to correct the problem and/or notify the buyer of the problem.  If it was me I would put in a new 15A breaker and see how that works, then maybe get a second opinion from another electrician. Requiring and hoping that other outlets aren't being used while your microwave is on seems foolish and unsafe to me.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

zinger1457 said:


> You do realize what your electrician did is probably against local building code regulations?  If you were to sell your house you would probably be required to correct the problem and/or notify the buyer of the problem.  If it was me I would put in a new 15A breaker and see how that works, then maybe get a second opinion from another electrician. Requiring and hoping that other outlets aren't being used while your microwave is on seems foolish and unsafe to me.



I hear ya. That is why I was questioning this from the beginning. The microwave is supposed to be on a separate line by itself, but there was no way to do that without tearing through walls- a nightmare scenario, so they originally left the 14 gauge wire and the 15A circuit breaker because the outlets in the dining room, which are the only other things on with the microwave, are never used. Who uses outlets in a dining room anyway, except to maybe vacuum the room once in a while? I guess if and when we sell the house we could just change out that breaker. I just don't get why he would do this if it wasn't ok. I am sure he wouldn't want to be sued if there was a fire. Someone else I know just used him for their light fixture. He has been in business forever and is very well known in our area. I would think he wouldn't risk his reputation on something like this. What would it be to him if we just left it on a 15A breaker or for him to put a new 15A breaker on the panel. I would think this would be elementary for him. I will say he did not test the microwave with the vent hood or lights running on it; just the cooking phase. I would think that if you had those running with the microwave that would matter in terms of the load.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Translation in *BOLD* for normal people...



LOL! Thanks. Though I still don't get the bottom line gist of this.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> LOL! Thanks. Though I still don't get the bottom line gist of this.



The microwave is not the first thing on the wire. There are the outlets and then the microwave. It is a long wire going from the garage where the circuit breaker is to the back of the house where the kitchen is.

Our refrigerator is on another circuit and so are the counter circuits for the other appliances. before the microwave was put in to replace it, there was a range hood with a light on that circuit.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

camachinist said:


> Since the breaker was on the genset line, hopefully the electrician checked the full-load voltage on the isolated genset circuit when operating. I mention this because, if there's a voltage drop and appliance demand remains constant (volts x amps = watts), then something has to give and that's amps, which will rise in a low-voltage situation. More amps = more current = more heat = greater likelihood of a weak link showing up, either purposefully like a breaker, or incidentally like a connection point overheating and failing.
> 
> Here's what I use when troubleshooting:
> 
> ...



This is the same tool the electrician used when he tested the load!


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

Do you think keeping the 20A circuit breaker and replacing the current kitchen outlet with a GFCI 15A outlet for the microwave will help with the safety issue?


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## Blues (Oct 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Do you think keeping the 20A circuit breaker and replacing the current kitchen outlet with a GFCI 15A outlet for the microwave will help with the safety issue?



No, not at all.

Bottom line is that the NEC requires #12 wire for 20 amp circuits, #14 wire for 15 amp circuits.  Period.  What you're doing will probably be safe *as long as nobody inadvertently turns on another load while the microwave is running.*  Big if.  Do you want to chance it?

If you reported the situation to the local licensing board, you could probably get your electrician's license yanked.  Not suggesting that you want to do that, just that it's that serious a violation that he has you involved in.

-Bob
B.S. Electrical Engineering.  But not an electrician.


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## camachinist (Oct 20, 2014)

If the kitchen outlet location otherwise requires a GFCI, I'd suggest using one with both a rated and downstream 20amp load factor, again keeping things equal. Some GFCI's are rated at 15 amps with a 20 amp downstream. If not otherwise required, no need to clutter up the line. GFCI's protect from ground faults, essentially electricity going somewhere it's not supposed to go, like through people or pets.  

Here's a great line I've heard in the past from electrical inspectors:

"I've noted some, but not all, of the deficiencies discovered in this job. Please correct all deficiencies prior to requesting another inspection" 

I will say this for them; they've got quick eyes and know the code. Sometimes that can be quite frustrating!


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## WinniWoman (Oct 20, 2014)

camachinist said:


> If the kitchen outlet location otherwise requires a GFCI, I'd suggest using one with both a rated and downstream 20amp load factor, again keeping things equal. Some GFCI's are rated at 15 amps with a 20 amp downstream. If not otherwise required, no need to clutter up the line. GFCI's protect from ground faults, essentially electricity going somewhere it's not supposed to go, like through people or pets.
> 
> Here's a great line I've heard in the past from electrical inspectors:
> 
> ...




The plug is up in a cabinet above the microwave since it is above the range. Anyway, wouldn't the cord from the microwave have to "fit" into the GFCI outlet- isn't the 15A GFCI outlet plug different from the 20A outlet plug?  

In any event,  I guess the GFCI plug wouldn't help with the load situation?-the wire overheating should for some reason we become senile and plug more things into the circuit?

Yikes- I am in over my head now


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## WinniWoman (Oct 20, 2014)

Blues said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> Bottom line is that the NEC requires #12 wire for 20 amp circuits, #14 wire for 15 amp circuits.  Period.  What you're doing will probably be safe *as long as nobody inadvertently turns on another load while the microwave is running.*  Big if.  Do you want to chance it?
> 
> ...



Thank you, Bob. So-even with the 10 gauge wire going from the regular circuit box to the generator transfer station - where this 20 amp breaker is located? 

I don't know why the electrician didn't try a new 15A breaker first before going with the 20A. Then, if the same problem occurred occasionally we could have decided whether or not to live with it. I certainly could live with it tripping once every few months or so if it is the safer option. Why it even tripped at all, I don't know because nothing else was even running on the circuit. Who knows? It could even be a problem with the microwave itself!


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> ...I don't know why the electrician didn't try a new 15A breaker first before going with the 20A. Then, if the same problem occurred occasionally we could have decided whether or not to live with it. I certainly could live with it tripping once every few months or so if it is the safer option. Why it even tripped at all, I don't know because nothing else was even running on the circuit. Who knows? It could even be a problem with the microwave itself!



Possible reasons:
He did not want another service call to your house if he had put in the NEW 15A breaker.

Many people do not like something that happens at the worst possible time - they complain every which way. Plus, you have learned MUCH on this thread during the coarse of its run. Normally, he would have had at least 1 or 2 more service calls, several phone discussions and you still might be unhappy. Now, you are more educated and are asking "WHY didn't he do...?" an intermediate step ... that now you would be willing to live with and NOT have to explain to a new buyer. But you know, the house burning down is slightly less.

As a regular user of electrical contractors, I would have been offered the "let's replace the breaker first" solution.


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## Kal (Oct 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> ...Why it even tripped at all, I don't know because nothing else was even running on the circuit. Who knows? It could even be a problem with the microwave itself!


 
 Yes, who knows.  There may even be a problem with the wiring or the junction box itself.  If that might be the case you would already be one step closer to an unhappy ending.

 I'm even more convinced that the "electrician" provide you with written certification that his work is in full compliance with all applicable electrical codes in your area.  My bet is he will not and just continue with hand waving and pats on the back.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 20, 2014)

Once again, thanks everyone. I was able to call and FaceBook PM 3 different electricians today and they all said I am ok as long as I make sure not to overload the circuit. It is less than ideal, but considering the circumstances and that fact that we only heat stuff in the microwave for a couple of minutes at a time- not hours, etc. and don't use the other outlets- we will be ok and I was told not to lose sleep over it. Just me and hubby in the house and very conscious of this situation. When I mentioned the name of my electrician to one of the others I spoke with today, he said- "oh- he's great- no need to worry -he knows what he's doing".

So, I will not beat this thread any longer and I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I certainly learned a lot from you all! Thanks!


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