# Why is RCI so depleted of Grand Pacific weeks?



## skimble (Nov 25, 2012)

One could pass it off as a supply and demand problem, but that cannot be the case.  In the past, it's been typical for RCI to have few prime Grand Pacific weeks, but they have always had a glut of off-season weeks in their system.  
Is this a symptom of RCI's weakness with regards to owner deposits?  
The GPX Exchange system is replete with GPR weeks-- which would seem logical since they control them, however they seem to have more off-season weeks than ever.  
Is GPX holding back inventory from RCI?  
For the California coast, Grand Pacific controls the lion's share of the premier timeshare resorts.  Without much of these to offer, RCI will become Interval International (metaphorically speaking.)    
In the Weeks system, there are currently only 2 GPR weeks showing, and both are pitiful-- late April to mid-May.  In Points, there are a few more showing, but still maybe 10% of what it was a couple of years ago.  
I realize the demand is high for these weeks.  The 1 in 4 rule that transcends all 7 of the resorts precludes people from taking advantage of an inventory glut.   So, what gives?


----------



## presley (Nov 25, 2012)

I assume that it is GPR wanting to control their weeks.  They probably dump all their excess into Resortime and GPX.


----------



## DaveNV (Nov 25, 2012)

And doesn't GP also rent directly to the public?

Dave


----------



## Cathyb (Nov 25, 2012)

skimble said:


> One could pass it off as a supply and demand problem, but that cannot be the case.  In the past, it's been typical for RCI to have few prime Grand Pacific weeks, but they have always had a glut of off-season weeks in their system.
> Is this a symptom of RCI's weakness with regards to owner deposits?
> The GPX Exchange system is replete with GPR weeks-- which would seem logical since they control them, however they seem to have more off-season weeks than ever.
> Is GPX holding back inventory from RCI?
> ...


For the first time I used GPX and exchanged Carlsbad Inn for San Clemente Cove.  Their list of availability was huge for the Grand Pacific units -- and other places.  Paid $99 for exchange fee.  So maybe GPX is swiping those RCI former listings.


----------



## rhonda (Nov 25, 2012)

Perhaps it is a "home resort advantage' issue?  In RCI weeks, I see the following as I have a GPR week on deposit:

169 weeks at Americana Village, S. Lk Tahoe
6 weeks at Carlsbad Seapointe
18 weeks at Grand Pacific Palisades
67 weeks at Indian Palms
4 weeks at Red Wolf at Squaw Valley, Olympic Valley, CA
39 weeks at Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge, Tahoe Vista
44 weeks at Mountain Retreat, Arnold, CA
138 weeks at Olympic Village Inn, Olympic Valley, CA
252 weeks at Stardust, Tahoe

Each of the above were marked as "inside exchange'  via RCI weeks searching CA.


----------



## skimble (Nov 25, 2012)

rhonda said:


> Perhaps it is a "home resort advantage' issue?  In RCI weeks, I see the following as I have a GPR week on deposit:
> 
> 169 weeks at Americana Village, S. Lk Tahoe
> 6 weeks at Carlsbad Seapointe
> ...



I am referring to the *Coastal resorts*-- 
San Clemente Cove, So. Cal Beach Club, Seapointe, Carlsbad Inn, MarBrisa, Grand Pacific Palisades, Villa L Auberge, and Coronado Beach Resort.  There are 8 (mostly) Gold Crown resorts on the coast in CA that are controlled by Grand Pacific-- they have the lion's share.  
All those other resorts you refer to are places that Grand Pacific Resorts manages.  Owners at resorts outside the core 8 above are still bound by the 1 in 4 rule.


----------



## skimble (Nov 25, 2012)

rhonda said:


> Perhaps it is a "home resort advantage' issue?  In RCI weeks, I see the following as I have a GPR week on deposit:
> 
> 169 weeks at Americana Village, S. Lk Tahoe
> 6 weeks at Carlsbad Seapointe
> ...



And... you are only seeing 2 of the 8 possible resorts available.  Of the two you see, there are only 24 units available-- none of which are any larger than a 1 bedroom-- which is disturbing too, especially at the GPP.


----------



## DAman (Nov 26, 2012)

I did a search on RCI Weeks and only come up with 9 weeks available in Carlsbad. 2 weeks at Seapointe and 7 at GPP. I used a GPP week to search.

It seemed to me there used to be a higher inventory of weeks available to book.  Should we expect a bulk deposit to happen soon?


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 26, 2012)

Grand Pacific Resorts are now affiliated with Diamond Resorts International and their weeks are available to DRI THE Club members via internal exchange through DRI. Grand Pacific also has an affiliation with Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Grand Pacific weeks are available for internal exchange to HGVC members. My bet is the former RCI inventory is now the inventory available to DRI and HGVC owners/members. 

It is my belief that open exchanging through the big two is fast becoming irrelevant as internal exchange programs and affiliation between internal exchange programs becomes more prevelant. It's in developers best interest to control their inventory and make their "clubs" more exclusive. It becomes a stronger selling point when you can say, and be correct, that it's very difficult to exchange into a system from outside the system. 

Where will RCI and I.I. fit into this picture? They're the companies that are running these internal programs behind the scene. They get a guarenteed income from membership dues. Currently I'm paying $299/year to DRI, $215 to Marriott and $125 to HGVC. These club dues include membership with I.I. or RCI. There's little reason for many owners to have personal accounts with the big 2 exchange companies and little reason for many to exchange outside their systems or affiliates of those systems.  

In the past we use to make multiple exchanges directly through I.I. and/or RCI. Now, with all these internal clubs, we make maybe 1 exchange/year with I.I. and 0 with RCI. This is where I believe a great deal of the inventory is going.

Consider how many internal clubs are available. Then consider the consequences if those internal clubs affiliate with each other. Also consider the consolidation of systems going on such as DRI purchasing smaller systems like ILX and Monarch Grand Vacation Club. Before the economic meltdown, DRI was set to aquire Bluegreen, which would have merged two relatively large internal exchange programs further erroding open exchanges through either RCI or I.I. If you consider all of this, I think you'll begin to see the future of open exchanging through the big 2.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 26, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> Grand Pacific Resorts are now affiliated with Diamond Resorts International and their weeks are available to DRI THE Club members via internal exchange through DRI. Grand Pacific also has an affiliation with Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Grand Pacific weeks are available for internal exchange to HGVC members. My bet is the former RCI inventory is now the inventory available to DRI and HGVC owners/members. …



deleted. Got my facts wrong.


----------



## klpca (Nov 26, 2012)

When did Grand Pacific affiliate with DRI? I haven't heard any thing about this and we own at Carlsbad Seapointe. Is the affiliation reciprocal? Will Grand Pacific owners have access to DRI inventory via the internal exchange system - or perhaps it is already in the GPX inventory?


----------



## presley (Nov 26, 2012)

klpca said:


> When did Grand Pacific affiliate with DRI? I haven't heard any thing about this and we own at Carlsbad Seapointe. Is the affiliation reciprocal? Will Grand Pacific owners have access to DRI inventory via the internal exchange system - or perhaps it is already in the GPX inventory?



The resorts are in the GPX inventory.  I didn't get any notification, either.  I only knew because one time I was looking at the DRI website to see where their resorts were and saw several GPR listed as their resorts.


----------



## klpca (Nov 26, 2012)

presley said:


> The resorts are in the GPX inventory.  I didn't get any notification, either.  I only knew because one time I was looking at the DRI website to see where their resorts were and saw several GPR listed as their resorts.


I went ahead and called Grand Pacific and they told me it was an exchange relationship only. I was told we could request Diamond inventory through GPX (with no guarantees of course). It looks like Grand Pacific is trying to promote their own exchange, which I understand. I suspect this also explains why the TPU's for my summer week were so high - I guess that RCI is trying to lure the beach weeks back into the RCI fold.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 26, 2012)

klpca said:


> When did Grand Pacific affiliate with DRI? I haven't heard any thing about this and we own at Carlsbad Seapointe. Is the affiliation reciprocal? Will Grand Pacific owners have access to DRI inventory via the internal exchange system - or perhaps it is already in the GPX inventory?



I believe it occured sometime in this past year, perhaps it was 2011. DRI has added so many affiliations or taken over resorts groups in bankruptcy I have trouble keeping track. I don't believe that all Grand Pacific resorts are available through DRI and I assume it's recipricol but, it may be another instance where DRI has purchased unsold inventory, making it more or less a one way street unless a Grand Pacific owner buys into and converts to a DRI trust ownership.


----------



## dougp26364 (Nov 26, 2012)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> deleted. Got my facts wrong.



Happens to me all the time. I knew I had read about the affiliation but had to go to both the DRI and HGVC sites to confirm. Mergers and affiliations are happening at such a rapid pace it's difficult to keep them straight. 

Some affiliations have poor inventory, some good and some very good. I have not looked to see if the Grand Pacific resorts are readily available to DRI members or if it's so limited that the affiliation only looks good on paper.


----------



## skimble (Nov 26, 2012)

Jacuzzi talk at Seapointe alluded to the power of Diamond Resorts-- the people I talked with told me they booked their 3 day summer getaway just a few months before.  And, DRI gave them multiple options.  
Which makes me wonder-- how much Hold Back inventory is coming from prime GPR weeks?  Developers are using Hold Back inventory for people to test drive timesharing.  They sell a "try before you buy" program in Wyndham (and likely DRI and HGVC.)  
The 'Try it out' program offers a platinum package for a little more than maintenance fees.  When you call in to redeem points, it's a smorg of prime weeks.  I have to wonder, how much of this prime inventory is comprised of coastal GPR weeks?


----------



## presley (Nov 27, 2012)

Just looked at the HGVC/RCI portal.  This is the current inventory.


Hilton Grand Vacations Club at MarBrisa  (#8774)
Carlsbad,  CA  92008,  USA     

Rating: 	  	  ( 6 )
Check-In Date Range 
24-Jan-2013 - 25-Sep-2013 


	Add to Favorite Resort
60   check-in nights available




Grand Pacific Resorts at Carlsbad Seapointe Resort  (#3987)
Carlsbad,  CA  92011,  USA     

Rating: 	  	  ( 50 )
Check-In Date Range 
20-Jan-2013 - 25-Sep-2013 


	Add to Favorite Resort
18   check-in nights available




Grand Pacific Resorts at Grand Pacific Palisades Resort  (#5362)
Carlsbad,  CA  92008,  USA     

Rating: 	  	  ( 56 )
Check-In Date Range 
21-Apr-2013 - 26-May-2013 


	Add to Favorite Resort
7   check-in nights available




Grand Pacific Resorts at Carlsbad Inn Beach Resort  (#1285)
Carlsbad,  CA  92008,  USA     

Rating: 	  	  ( 45 )
Check-In Date Range 
11-Sep-2013 - 25-Sep-2013 


	Add to Favorite Resort
5   check-in nights available

EDIT TO ADD:  I didn't check which of those were full weeks.  Also, included Marbrisa because I don't know if anyone still thinks of it as a GPR or not.


----------



## skimble (Nov 27, 2012)

presley said:


> Just looked at the HGVC/RCI portal.  This is the current inventory.
> 
> 
> Hilton Grand Vacations Club at MarBrisa  (#8774)
> ...



This seems to match the RCI Points inventory, except I believe there is a larger quantity of available units available.  
I would have thought HGVC would be harboring the bulk of the hidden inventory.  While I realize GPX is ripe with available weeks to rent, I have to wonder if there is another outlet somewhere.  Resortime possibly?  An RCI rental site?  Or... is there hold-back inventory being used to promote developer sales? 
Just a supposition.... Because there are no 2-bedroom units being offered through RCI-- even at resorts like GPP where there have typically been many, I wonder if there are plans to do last-minute unit upgrades for Platinum RCI members (and as possibly a developer sale's perk for HGVC Club members.)  And... I suspect there's a portal for hold-back inventory for those who phone in to their mini-system management company for exclusive/premiere inventory access.


----------



## Amy (Nov 27, 2012)

I skipped RCI weeks and deposited my Seapointe week into GPX Exchange for the first time this year.  I'm trying to phase out of RCI in the next year or two and didn't want to add more deposit credits into my account.


----------



## DAman (Nov 27, 2012)

Amy said:


> I skipped RCI weeks and deposited my Seapointe week into GPX Exchange for the first time this year.  I'm trying to phase out of RCI in the next year or two and didn't want to add more deposit credits into my account.



I have a great fixed week(27) at GPP in a 2 bedroom unit. I am wary of GPX. I would hate to deposit my week and get a one bedroom unit in November at GPP in trade.  Do you know how GPX works in this situation? 

Until recently there were plenty of units available in Carlsbad and even a few Coronado units as well in RCI weeks. Now there is nothing available in Coronado and little in Carlsbad.  As far as I am concerned this is bad for me trading in RCI. I will have to look to GPX but only if it provides me value.


----------



## presley (Nov 27, 2012)

DAman said:


> I have a great fixed week(27) at GPP in a 2 bedroom unit. I am wary of GPX. I would hate to deposit my week and get a one bedroom unit in November at GPP in trade.  Do you know how GPX works in this situation?
> 
> Until recently there were plenty of units available in Carlsbad and even a few Coronado units as well in RCI weeks. Now there is nothing available in Coronado and little in Carlsbad.  As far as I am concerned this is bad for me trading in RCI. I will have to look to GPX but only if it provides me value.


I have been very happy with GPX.  You can reserve whatever you want online and then make your deposit within 2 days afterward.  You can put in an ongoing search as well.  You do not ever need to book something that you don't want.  They also made it very easy for me to switch a reservation a couple months after I made the original.  

Additionally, you can rent any of the already deposited weeks for less than the annual dues.  Makes it nice if you ever want an extra vacation at one of their resorts or affiliate resorts.


----------



## skimble (Nov 28, 2012)

presley said:


> Additionally, you can rent any of the already deposited weeks for less than the annual dues.  Makes it nice if you ever want an extra vacation at one of their resorts or affiliate resorts.



Can't you do this without having a deposit on record?  I mean, can't you rent a bonus week just by being a GPR owner?


----------



## skimble (Nov 28, 2012)

DAman said:


> I have a great fixed week(27) at GPP in a 2 bedroom unit. I am wary of GPX. I would hate to deposit my week and get a one bedroom unit in November at GPP in trade.  Do you know how GPX works in this situation?
> 
> Until recently there were plenty of units available in Carlsbad and even a few Coronado units as well in RCI weeks. Now there is nothing available in Coronado and little in Carlsbad.  As far as I am concerned this is bad for me trading in RCI. I will have to look to GPX but only if it provides me value.



I think this is wise, especially with a 2 bedroom unit.  In RCI, you used to be able to get equal value.  RCI only offers 1 bedroom units and very few of them-- which may be good indicator that owners are doing exactly what you and Amy (above) are doing.  
My dad is the same way-- he will not deposit his (Spring Break) Carlsbad Inn unit into RCI anymore.  My sister who owns 3 units at Seapointe (weeks 25, 26 and 27) have forsaken RCI, and My aunt got totally screwed on her GPR deposit for the last 2 year (she has a floating week, and she didn't even get enough TPU to trade back in to a GPR.)  
My dad used GPX and liked it.  He plans to use it again.  I might use them, but I'm leery-- if I deposit my summer week, I want a summer week back.


----------



## presley (Nov 28, 2012)

skimble said:


> Can't you do this without having a deposit on record?  I mean, can't you rent a bonus week just by being a GPR owner?



Yes, as long you are a member of GPX, you can rent all the weeks.  You never have to make a deposit.  It is a very nice system.

EDIT TO ADD:  I don't deposit to RCI, either.  GPX has 99% of anything that I would ever want and SFX gives me a bunch of bonus weeks when I make a deposit.  One of my GPR weeks was already converted to RCI points when I bought it.  I wasn't able to trade back into the same unit that I owned for the same points.  Plus, I would have to pay all the fees.  I called my resort and told them to switch it back to the fixed week and drop the RCI points.


----------



## PClapham (Nov 28, 2012)

Is GPX open only to owners of the resorts listed on the website?

THanks

Anita


----------



## DAman (Nov 28, 2012)

skimble said:


> if I deposit my summer week, I want a summer week back.



That's what I meant about value.  A summer 2 bedroom for a summer 2 bedroom.  Or 2 one bedrooms in the off season might work as well.

I am trying to learn more about GPX. Some of the bonus weeks look good.  But honestly I may have to just use my week and forget about trading.  Now if I can get my kids' schedules to cooperate....


----------



## Stressy (Nov 29, 2012)

I managed a July Seapointe week this year for a CI Sept week. I also stayed last week at CI over Thanksgiving.

To be honest, the July week was sitting in available inventory. I was shocked to see it. I called GPX and they seemed shocked it was there too...but it was. They gave it to me no problem. 

I agree, summer used to be more plentiful in GPX. I have not had to do an ongoing request so I have no idea how a summer week would play out for a summer week..but overall, I've been satisfied with GPX.

Adding that I do not belong to RCI-so any trading I need would be accomplished through GPX or maybe SFX.


----------



## klpca (Nov 29, 2012)

I deposited my summer Seapointe with RCI because I thought it would leverage into two or three good trades for us. I wasn't convinced that GPX would get me what I really wanted which was a summer week on Coronado, and I didn't feel that I would be able to use much of their other inventory. But it looks like they are reducing their commitment to RCI and keeping their inventory internally, so maybe I'll be moving that week to GPX next time.

Btw, I received a letter from RCI indicating that we would no longer be paying our RCI membership fee through our maintenance fees but would pay RCI directly. It seems that things are changing.


----------



## skimble (Nov 30, 2012)

klpca said:


> Btw, I received a letter from RCI indicating that we would no longer be paying our RCI membership fee through our maintenance fees but would pay RCI directly. It seems that things are changing.



Btw, I received a letter from RCI indicating that we would no longer be paying our RCI membership fee through our maintenance fees but would pay RCI directly. It seems that things are changing.[/QUOTE]

My sister called me with a concern over this letter.  She was perturbed thinking she's been paying for an embedded RCI membership for years on her 3 Seapointe weeks. Because she was (as in past tense) paying for a membership out of pocket, she feels slighted-- the letter indicates that CSR will no longer be including RCI membership with maintenance fees.  This means she's been paying for a membership that she did not use.  
(I think I know what the Seapointe was trying to say-- that they are no longer going to embed that fee in the bottom line as a tricky way to get you to include it in your fees.  But the way they worded it, it says that fees have been included in your maintenance fees in the past.)   My sister plans to complain about this and insist that if she's been paying for an RCI membership as a part of her dues, that she's entitled to compensation for the RCI membership fees she paid directly in the past.


----------



## skimble (Nov 30, 2012)

There are a LOT of people offering exchange weeks for rent.  I understand when a person gets into a bind and they cannot use the week-- and they rent to a friend, but the rules strictly say no renting.  
Take Carlsbad Inn postings on Redweek for example:  At least half of the weeks listed are rentals from non-owners. The easiest way to tell is when they cannot identify the unit they are offering-- when they say it will be assigned at check-in.  There is a summer, week 30 available for $1800 (or $1000 over maintenance fees.)  Aside from the fact that this is a pretty dang good profit margin, this person was able to exchange for this week... the most coveted week at the CBI.  ('Wanted' ads that go up every year for week 30 at the Carlsbad Inn.  There's a big reunion that happens at CBI every year on week 30.)      
How did this person manage to exchange for this week?  I know there is the argument for Points owners being allowed to rent their weeks.  CBI is NOT a Points affiliated resort.  They are not HGVC; they are not Diamond; they are not Wyndham.  So then, there are two problems:  1.  There are privileged groups getting to cherry pick the prime GPR weeks.  2.  There are people renting these prime exchanges on the open market, and nobody is stopping them.
(This topic deserves a separate thread, but it definitely applies to the availability of GPR weeks.)


----------



## klpca (Nov 30, 2012)

With respect to RCI fees and Seapointe, I believe that Seapointe was the only GPP property that didn't include RCI fees in the maintenance fees - it was billed as a separate (optional)  line item on the Seapointe maintenance fee bill. So I don't think that your sister was paying for an RCI account without knowing it.


----------



## presley (Nov 30, 2012)

klpca said:


> With respect to RCI fees and Seapointe, I believe that Seapointe was the only GPP property that didn't include RCI fees in the maintenance fees - it was billed as a separate (optional)  line item on the Seapointe maintenance fee bill. So I don't think that your sister was paying for an RCI account without knowing it.



Yeah, that is interesting that her bill came that way.  One of my Seapointe bills shows an optional RCI fee.  I just didn't pay that part.  The way the bill looks, if you just look at the bottom amount that says Due: $  it does include the optional RCI fee.  However, in the itemized part, it shows what to pay if I don't want to pay RCI.


----------



## Amy (Jan 16, 2013)

klpca said:


> I deposited my summer Seapointe with RCI because I thought it would leverage into two or three good trades for us. I wasn't convinced that GPX would get me what I really wanted which was a summer week on Coronado, and I didn't feel that I would be able to use much of their other inventory. But it looks like they are reducing their commitment to RCI and keeping their inventory internally, so maybe I'll be moving that week to GPX next time.



Just saw a 1BR August 18th Coronado week sitting in GPX Exchange.  Not sure if you are looking for a 1BR and/or if you have another week to deposit into GPX.  I've never tried its ongoing search request, so I don't know if other summer Coronado weeks have been available.

Edited to add:  And there is a 2BR Coronado week checking in on Sept. 1.  7 more (1 and 2BR) Coronado weeks for the rest of Sept.


----------



## Amy (Jan 16, 2013)

dougp26364 said:


> Grand Pacific Resorts are now affiliated with Diamond Resorts International and their weeks are available to DRI THE Club members via internal exchange through DRI. Grand Pacific also has an affiliation with Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Grand Pacific weeks are available for internal exchange to HGVC members. My bet is the former RCI inventory is now the inventory available to DRI and HGVC owners/members.
> .



I didn't pay attention to this discussion re Diamond before.  Now I understand why there are all those non-GPX resorts when I check GPX Inventory!  I see now that a bunch of them are part of Diamond Resorts.  But I've also seen Wyndham Kona sitting in the inventory.  So there is some relationship with Wyndham also?  And there are lots of other non-GPX non-Diamond timeshares in the inventory like the The Loch Rannoch Highland Club, Macdonald Lochanhully Woodland Club and others in Scotland; The Osborne Club in England; places in China (Pacific Sunrise and Legend Vacation Club) and Denmark (Hojengran and others), to name a few.  And this is just what I see in available inventory.  So which other timeshare groups is GPX affiliated with?


----------



## klpca (Jan 16, 2013)

Amy said:


> Just saw a 1BR August 18th Coronado week sitting in GPX Exchange.  Not sure if you are looking for a 1BR and/or if you have another week to deposit into GPX.  I've never tried its ongoing search request, so I don't know if other summer Coronado weeks have been available.
> 
> Edited to add:  And there is a 2BR Coronado week checking in on Sept. 1.  7 more (1 and 2BR) Coronado weeks for the rest of Sept.



Thanks for thinking of me! Darn it, I don't have anything to deposit but it's great that summer inventory at CBR has popped up and that a request should work. I've got to take another look at GPX to see what else is sitting in inventory for future reference.


----------



## mimi67 (Jan 31, 2013)

*Redwolf Lakeside Lodge resale*

Reading the posts on GP resorts.  I was looking for an ebay resale for the Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge.  Do you recommend buying resale for this resort?  All i have seen are studio units.  Concerned it will be difficult to reserve a summer week.  Also, are RWL owners who buy resale become members of GP and can use the internal trading system?  thanks


----------



## presley (Jan 31, 2013)

mimi67 said:


> Reading the posts on GP resorts.  I was looking for an ebay resale for the Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge.  Do you recommend buying resale for this resort?  All i have seen are studio units.  Concerned it will be difficult to reserve a summer week.  Also, are RWL owners who buy resale become members of GP and can use the internal trading system?  thanks



I don't know about that resort, but here is the information page http://grandpacificresorts.com/owners/RWLL_fact_sheet.aspx 

You would be able to use the internal exchange company, GPX.  There are steep fees to upgrade unit size.  If you buy a studio and want to trade into a one or 2 bedroom, you pay extra for that.  I don't think buying a studio is ever a good idea, but you know what would work for you.


----------



## macmanrider (Aug 17, 2021)

mimi67 said:


> *Redwolf Lakeside Lodge resale*
> 
> Reading the posts on GP resorts.  I was looking for an ebay resale for the Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge.  Do you recommend buying resale for this resort?  All i have seen are studio units.  Concerned it will be difficult to reserve a summer week.  Also, are RWL owners who buy resale become members of GP and can use the internal trading system?  thanks


Did you ever buy at redwolf lake side lodge


----------

