# Thinking of switching to points through Schell Vacations - help!



## lizanddave (Aug 15, 2012)

Has anyone owned a floating red week at Carriage Hills Ontario and switched to the points systems through Schell Vacations recently? It is going to cost us $5000.00 to switch which will apparenlty allow us to use our points for flights and accomodations. We can also buy unlimited extra points any time for a set price which seems reasonable and hasnt apparently increased in the past 10 years. .... help? any good/bad input for us? We are new members here looking to connect with others in our boat- We have 3 more days to cancel/rescind this deal we've signed and would love some real life feedback.

Thanks!


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2012)

How many points do you get for $5,000? Here http://www.ebay.com/itm/2500-SHELL-...00801710819?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2ec0b6f2e3 is 2500 Shell points in Hawaii on eBay for $1 and there are no bids. If it was me, and I was convinced that Shell points was the way to go, I'd just keep what I have (especially if I like and use it) and just buy another points contract on the resale market and use the difference to pay decades of MF.

Here are 'completed' Bay auctions. The prices in red didn't sell- even for $1. http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=shell+vacations+club&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

My feeling is that if they come to me with the 'deal', and it wasn't me soliciting them, the benefit is theirs, not mine.

But that's me. I wouldn't do it. Rescind.

Jim


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## lizanddave (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks Jim for your reply. We would get 6450 points. We pay currently 980 in maintenance fees for our program, if we convert to points, there will be no additional maintenance fees. We will be able to access airfare for max. 2500 points per person anywhere in north america. Accomodation will probably be within the 60 day better deal, as we always travel last minute. We would have access to buying additional points anytime and as much as we want (over and above our base points each year). The points will average .18 per point. So if we had to pay lets say an extra 10,000 points for 4 of us for airfare above our annual alloted points, that would work out to $1800.00 for 4 people to fly anywhere in north america. Apparently that is the "max" points we would need for round trip- 2500/pp.  I think it might work, as the ability to buy extra points anytime for anywhere from .18cents to .16cents per point would be great.... provided our maintenance fees don't keep creeping up as they have in the past 10 years.   I would love to sell our timeshare- as the maintenance fees are half a holiday all inclusive for my husband and I every year alone... but have been scammed on that venture too.... just want to get something out of this darned "deeded" timeshare we have already. We are going to discuss this tonight. thanks again- any input is greatly appreciated.
Liz


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## lizanddave (Aug 15, 2012)

P.S. We paid 20,000 for this timeshare 11 years ago, have only used it once for a week in floriday (as the airfare for 5 people just wasnt feasable in comparison to all inclusives). The timing has never worked with my husbands work, and we have since been paying 980.00 maintenance fees per year. Needless to say... we can't get rid of it easily, we haven't been successful using it and to date it has cost us in excess of $30,000.00 - no surprise we are pissed and looking for any way we can to get SOMETHING out of it?? grrr timeshares. 
Liz


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2012)

So you think that throwing another $5K at it will make it better or more usable? OK. Maybe those airfare exchanges will make it more usable. Is that deal permanent, and irrevocable? $980 + $1800 for 4 seats anywhere in N.A. seems like a good deal if you have it in writing. Still a hefty commitment year after year. It would balloon that $30k you've already spent on one vacation. When you're in a hole, sometimes you have to quit digging. The money you've already spent is pretty much gone, and as you can see from looking at the completed eBay auctions I directed you to, even at $1, Shell points don't sell. If it was me, I'd offer the 'deed' back to Shell for free in lieu of them foreclosing, then I wouldn't pay them any more MF. The alternative would be to list it in the TUG Bargain Deals sub-forum under Buying, Selling, Renting. List it for free and offer to pay the closing. To sweeten the pot, book a holiday week for the new owner and throw it in with the 'sale.'

Please. I'm not trying to be snarky, or flippant, or disrespectful in any way. I just would either try to figure out a way to use the TS you own, or get rid of it. Throwing more money at it just doesn't make sense.

Whatever your decision, I wish you well. 

Jim


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## lizanddave (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi Jim,
Just a question, and thanks for all your heartfelt input- this is a big decision.... do you happen to know what would happen legally if we just stopped paying our Maintenance fees and walked away? We haven't used it in 8 years, we don't really want the 1000.00/year expense, but legally the Carriage Hills property is deeded so we aren't sure of the ramifiations if we never paid the MF again and left it behind us? I hate this timeshare ugg...
Liz


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## WinniWoman (Aug 15, 2012)

Jim is right. Rescind.


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## lizanddave (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks,
giving this some serious thought and finding out how to rescind tonight. Will probably be posting our property for anyone who wants it soon for free. We just haven't been able to use this, or afford a decent holiday since we bought it... shame, now its all paid for and we are so torn what to do. Thanks for your feedback and kind words of wisdom, greatly appreciated.
Lizanddave


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2012)

lizanddave said:


> do you happen to know what would happen legally if we just stopped paying our Maintenance fees and walked away?
> Liz



I don't. I imagine they would first lock you out so you couldn't use or exchange it. Then after a time you'd start to accrue late fees on top of your MF. Then it might be turned over to collection, and the phone calls would start. Eventually, it might be turned over to the credit reporting bureaus, wrecking your credit. At some point they would bring foreclosure proceedings on you, it would eventually go back to Shell to resell. All the above is speculation because I don't know the Canadian legal system.

That's why I suggested what I did earlier. Offer it back to them (call the resort- ask for sales or marketing dept. Ask. If declined, call back in a week and ask again) to save the HOA the trouble and expense of foreclosure. Or (b) give it away- even if it costs you some bux.

Post it on Craigslist. Or Redweek. Or learn to use it. Exchange the week you have for a resort and time that works out better for you. Thousands (really) of TUGgers bought retail from developers. After they got over that they had paid too much and others bought resale, they studied here at the university of TUG (just kidding) and learned to use what they bought. It's value is in it's use. And nothing more.

Good luck!

JIm


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## tschwa2 (Aug 15, 2012)

I agree that unless you have the information in your contract, I don't think all or even most of it is true.  Hopefully someone who owns can confirm some of the conversion and points issues that I found in my 30-45 min research on Shell Points. Shell hides everything online and if you don't have access you can't see a lot of the charts.  The info I found was from 2006-2009 from SVC and here on TUG.  While my info is a little old in general points allotted to TS's don't increase ever but newer resorts might cost more to trade into.  Another thing is converting points to hotel, air, cruise and other "partners" almost never decrease if anything the value you get when trading in the same amount usually decreases.  With that in mind this is a link to a Shell_Vacation_Club_2009_Points_Chart.pdf that lists all the points required to trade into each resort. 

Carriage Hills platinum 2 bedroom gets 5350 SVC points so unless you own in a new section of the resort not listed on this chart, part of your fee is paying for 1100 additional Shell points.   Now if your deed is being converted into one of the trust it may be possible that 6450 points have the same maintenance fees as your week but I kind of doubt it.  In addition there is a Shell club fee that is paid.  Even if your week is not going into a trust you would have to pay your club fees plus your regular MF's plus possible additional MF's on the 1100 points.  If it is not in your contract you should call up and find out what your total MF's including any club fees would be on 6450 points.  You should also confirm which of the trust club's you would be in.


Next for the conversion to airfare.  Generally for all systems it is never a good deal.  If members are finding a way to get more out of it then they are paying in the developer finds a way to de-value your points.  The only chart I could find was this one from Shell News 2006 www.shellvacationsclub.com/shownews.html?id=212 
At that time travel within the US could be had for 2500 points but from Canada to the 50 US was 3750 points.  Travel within Canada was 3600 points.  In small print it also indicates: 





> Point values for airline tickets are based on the average airfare of major airlines from each of the identified locations. If for any particular reason the rates exceed the benefit cap, the member would be offered the option to choose a different carrier or pay the difference.


  So basically if the flight you want is up to a certain amount it will cost you so many points regardless of the true cost.  If it is over the allowance they allow you would need to select a different flight or pay $ for the difference.  Based on the conversion they use for the play deck on the previous page my bet would be 2500 would get you airfare up to $350 within the 48 US states and the 3750 for the Canada to US would get you tickets up to $500 USD.  This based on 2006 rates.  If you are lucky that would still be the value today.    Most systems also charge a convenience fee to convert to partner points.  I don't see it anywhere here but I would double check because many systems add an additional $25-$50 per ticket.

Finally as to renting the points.  I found a document from SVC on this from 2006 or 2007 too but I can't locate it now.  It indicated that rented points could only be used for reservations made within 60 days of travel.  Although it wasn't explicitly stated I would understand that to mean you could rent points to stay in SVC properties reserved 60 days or less from check in- not use rented points to convert to airfare.  But even if you could if my other assumptions based on the 2006 chart are correct you would be paying an additional $450 for $350 maximum airfare ticket or $675 for $500 worth of airfare tickets for the Canada to US flights.

Shell is smart to hide these until after you are past your rescission period when you get access to the web site.  If you don't or can't the answers in writing you should definitively rescind.  

As to walking away you would probably take some kind of hit to your credit but you would have to decide if the hit would be worth the MF's you would be paying for the years while it was affecting you.


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## lizanddave (Aug 16, 2012)

Wow!!! thank you for all that.... I appreciate the math conversions as I have been trying to do that since we got the pitch. And yes... I noticed on the internet that RCI has a whole bunch of "costs" associated with booking ANY service, and was wondering if we were going to be hit with the same, as I cannot of course log onto the Shell website until we are locked in as members  how convenient!  My gut was telling me to rescind, and the $15.00 I paid to talk to you educated TUGGERS was worth its weight in gold. Appreciate the feedback and your time to research my issue- very grateful!
I hope I can give back to someone on this website one day, maybe someone will want my timeshare and I can give it to them and cover the sales costs? I'll look into this option after we get out of this first mess.

Cheers
Happy Member of Tug


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## Passepartout (Aug 16, 2012)

Liz and Dave, there are instructions on the TUG home page of how to enter the code you got in the email after you paid the membership so that you get the perks of membership. Like ability to see reviews, sightings and gets rid of the dreaded 'Guest' designation after your username. It's been so long since I registered that I can't remember the particulars. User CP? Maybe.

Anyway, don't obsess over a rescission letter. Just "We wish to exercise our right to rescind contract #XXX-XXX, dated Aug___2012
Signed (both original signers)" and sent to the address specified in the contract (important) by the method specified USPS, FED-EX, FAX, or whatever.

All the best.

Jim


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## carl2591 (Aug 16, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> How many points do you get for $5,000? Here http://www.ebay.com/itm/2500-SHELL-...00801710819?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2ec0b6f2e3 is 2500 Shell points in Hawaii on eBay for $1 and there are no bids. If it was me, and I was convinced that Shell points was the way to go, I'd just keep what I have (especially if I like and use it) and just buy another points contract on the resale market and use the difference to pay decades of MF.
> 
> Here are 'completed' Bay auctions. The prices in red didn't sell- even for $1. http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=shell+vacations+club&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc
> 
> ...



THAT WAS AWESOME... lots of reds and the greens were only a fricken dollar..   tell them to pound sand...


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## itisme (Aug 18, 2012)

lizanddave said:


> P.S. We paid 20,000 for this timeshare 11 years ago, have only used it once for a week in floriday (as the airfare for 5 people just wasnt feasable in comparison to all inclusives). The timing has never worked with my husbands work, and we have since been paying 980.00 maintenance fees per year. Needless to say... we can't get rid of it easily, we haven't been successful using it and to date it has cost us in excess of $30,000.00 - no surprise we are pissed and looking for any way we can to get SOMETHING out of it?? grrr timeshares.
> Liz



You are in Ontario, probably driving distance to CH. Why don't you just book and use it?

We love going there. Using CH as a base and do day trips to Wasauga beach, Midland etc. Horseshoe adventure park, 2 golf courses, great indoor/outdoor pool... I bought a red floating week on ebay for $1. I deposit the lock-offs as 2 seperate deposits in RCI, two years in advance and am able to trade back into two 2 beadroom units. Every year we go with our extended families (8 adults and 8 kids all under 10 years) and have a wonderful time. Only 2 hour drive for us. $980 MF is a bit high but still worth it.


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## Tacoma (Aug 20, 2012)

Liz

Until you sell it or use it consider booking a prime summer week and renting it out. You likely won't get more than $1200-$1400 but at least it won't be just wasting your money.  My BC timeshare rented easily on Kijiji since it was a prime week.

Good luck 
Joan


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## Picker57 (Sep 7, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> .
> 
> Post it on Craigslist. Or Redweek. Or learn to use it. Exchange the week you have for a resort and time that works out better for you. Thousands (really) of TUGgers bought retail from developers. After they got over that they had paid too much and others bought resale, they studied here at the university of TUG (just kidding) and learned to use what they bought. It's value is in it's use. And nothing more.
> 
> ...



Wow....great thread, even for folks like us who've had Shell Points for some time.  Four great words...."learn to use it".  There are lots of ways to leverage your timeshare week; our favorite is SFX and their Lifestyle Weeks program.  The information available on this site is incredible; it truly is "University of TUG".   

BTW, we have enjoyed the Shell Points and the Shell properties.   Usage of the points does get expensive at some resorts, so that's where SFX and other exchange companies can be really helpful.  Our maintenance fees figure out to about .21 per point (Hawaii Club) based on our number of points. If a domestic flight is 2500 points......seems pricey to me, but you can do the math.  And, yes, there are gobs of Shell Points available on eBay for next to nothing.  Leverage your deeded week and enjoy your points; NOT a bad situation. 

--------------Zach


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