# [Organized Group] Dates at Aruba Clubs [2013]



## cbdmvci (Aug 22, 2012)

Is it always the 3rd week in January?

Anybody know exact dates for 2013?


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 22, 2012)

Since I know it will be asked.......

hell week at marriott aruba ocean club 
Aruba Surf Club hell week 2011 
Marriott Ocean Club: February Week to Avoid?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 22, 2012)

I think it coincides with the week of New York's Regents Exams, not necessarily the third week in January.  If so, Examination Schedule, January 2013.


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## Mamianka (Aug 22, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I think it coincides with the week of New York's Regents Exams, not necessarily the third week in January.  If so, Examination Schedule, January 2013.



DH and I are both retired NYS teachers - and we teach music lessons still.  We find that many kids will change lessons during Regents Week, because their parents DO book a vacation then - makes sense to not leave teenagers alone at home for a week (since they do not ALL have exams) while parents are working. I would NEVER book a vacation during Regents weeks, in any place where cold NY residents would be taking their teenagers.  

M


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## Sunbum (Oct 24, 2012)

*When is Aruba "Hell" week for 2013?*

Can anyone tell me the dates for 2013?

Thanks


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## Sunbum (Oct 24, 2012)

Sorry, i found it. Google is a wonderfull thing!

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177441


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## EKniager (Oct 24, 2012)

Is that a good week to reserve for the purpose of renting?


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## Sunbum (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm going to find out. I just posted a "week for rent" for that week. I hope some of these NY'rs have some big dough to spend


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Is that a good week to reserve for the purpose of renting?





Sunbum said:


> I'm going to find out. I just posted a "week for rent" for that week. I hope some of these NY'rs have some big dough to spend



This might be a very unwelcome comment but I can't believe that I'm alone in thinking it ... if I owned at the Aruba properties I'd have a problem with the owners who specifically book a "Hell Week" with the intent to rent it to a member of this infamous group.  I know it's allowed, I know the object of renting is to get as much income as possible.  But IMO any owner who rents to this group - despite knowing its reputation - is doing a major disservice to every other owner.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> This might be a very unwelcome comment but I can't believe that I'm alone in thinking it ... if I owned at the Aruba properties I'd have a problem with the owners who specifically book a "Hell Week" with the intent to rent it to a member of this infamous group.  I know it's allowed, I know the object of renting is to get as much income as possible.  But IMO any owner who rents to this group - despite knowing its reputation - is doing a major disservice to every other owner.



My bigger concern would be renting to some poor unsuspecting soul. I would think the hassles of a potential charge-back from an unhappy renter wouldn't be worth any extra cash one might get from this rental.


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## Sunbum (Oct 24, 2012)

Susan,

It is just by chance. I bought an additional week and i just got posesion of it today. When i called to book it for 2013, that was the only date open until late April. So, for rent it is!

I'm sure you would do the same. Maybe you can afford to turn down the $3 -$5k, but i can't.


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## jont (Oct 24, 2012)

That's a tough call Susan. How to you know who you are actually renting to? You can't really discriminate against a whole group of people because of a reputation, can you? How do you draw the line? No rentals to people from NY? Brooklyn NY? People from NY with a certain type of last name?
This group, no matter what, will find a way to stay there if so inclined.
IMHO, I think it's up to the resort to police the behavior of their guests and enforce the rules to the benefit of all guests.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2012)

Sunbum said:


> Susan,
> 
> It is just by chance. I bought an additional week and i just got posesion of it today. When i called to book it for 2013, that was the only date open until late April. So, for rent it is!
> 
> I'm sure you would do the same. Maybe you can afford to turn down the $3 -$5k, but i can't.





jont said:


> That's a tough call Susan. How to you know who you are actually renting to? You can't really discriminate against a whole group of people because of a reputation, can you? How do you draw the line? No rentals to people from NY? Brooklyn NY? People from NY with a certain type of last name?
> This group, no matter what, will find a way to stay there if so inclined.
> IMHO, I think it's up to the resort to police the behavior of their guests and enforce the rules to the benefit of all guests.



I've been very vocal in all these Aruba Hell Week threads that I think it's a disgrace that Marriott allows this ridiculousness to continue, and that if I owned there I'd be relentless in pressing Marriott about it.  As well, I think the owners who rent those weeks out share some of the responsibility for it.  I wouldn't do the same, as you say, because it would make me a hypocrite.

It's understandable that Marriott can't, for legal reasons related to discrimination, warn cash guests, owners reserving their Weeks or exchangers that there is a large group of guests who have historically significantly disrupted other guests' enjoyment, to the tune that Marriott has offered restitution on several occasions.  So I understand why an owner who chooses to rent out an Aruban Hell Week might also be reluctant to mention it prior to the stay.  But Dioxide makes a good point - what responsibility do you think you would have to your renter, if his/her rental from you is ruined by something of which you had prior knowledge might happen?


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## Sunbum (Oct 24, 2012)

Susan

If you have such a problem with this, maybe you want to shoot me a cheque for $5k and save someone from this????

I am good with that. We both win! You feel better and i get a return on my investment.


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## jont (Oct 24, 2012)

I agree with you Susan, you have been very vocal in the past. I'm not claiming that you are discriminating, I just think it's a very tricky situation for all involved with no obvious solutions. It's unfortunate a that a certain group is allowed to run wild and take a whole resort "hostage"! I think it's ultimately up to the resort or the hoa to make it clear to this group that their unruly behavior will not be tolerated no matter how much money they are willing to pay.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 24, 2012)

Sunbum said:


> Susan
> 
> If you have such a problem with this, maybe you want to shoot me a cheque for $5k and save someone from this????
> 
> I am good with that. We both win! You feel better and i get a return on my investment.



But what about the risk of me renting it from you and then turning around and suing you for my vacation being ruined by something that you knew could occur?  There is precedence for me winning - even the big bad Marriott machine has been made to provide restitution because the whole mess has been documented all over the web for years now.  

I'm kidding, of course, because I wouldn't want any part of being anywhere near that mess, and that includes going there just to prove a point.  But honestly, do you recognize why other owners might share my view?  And, can you see the risk that dioxide outlined?


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## ilene13 (Oct 24, 2012)

What many of you seem to forget is that although some of the guests in question rent that week, once the surf club was built many of them bought weeks.  I honestly think if Sunbum is able to rent his week, the probability is that it will be to a member of that particular group of guests.


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## EKniager (Oct 25, 2012)

Wow, I never anticipated this direction when I asked the question!  Might as well throw my two cents in as an owner at Surf Club.

I don't know enough about what transpires during this week to complain about it, but I do know to schedule my vacation sometime else.  I think that it will work its way out.  Marriott, the HOA, owners, renters/rentees, will all come to a place that works for everyone.  If the liability offsets the profits Marriott will toughen up.  If there is too much damage to the property the HOA will step in.  If the risk/profits aren't in equilibrium the renting will stop.  It's all about the money.  And this happens to be a case where I think free-enterprise will resolve the problem.  

In regard to the ethics of renting a week where other guests may behave badly... well, like the weather, I can't control their actions.  Is it my responsibility to tell a customer that it is potentially going to be cold and rainy?  Buyers (rentees) need to be responsible too.


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## m61376 (Oct 25, 2012)

Although I have been told that the majority of guests involved that week stay at the hotel and at the Ocean Club, I was told by Surf Club employees the last two years that things were much, much better; reportedly last year things were well controlled and other than it being very busy there weren't the prior issues. Of course, I am reporting second hand information, but from what I heard both from employees at the beach and from other guests who were there during the period, I think that perhaps the interventions that Marriott reportedly made had a positive impact.

Sue- you are right- owners should scream to Marriott if their vacation is impacted by any other subset of owners. While these threads have denigrated in the past into anti-Semetic threads, it isn't the religious practices that have been an issue here; rather it has been the sense of entitlement, and poor supervision of kids, which unfortunately has been seen across many large groups that overrun a hotel or other property (think of some convention or similar group antics we've heard about over the years). My impression from talking with people a week or two later is that things have been much better controlled, which I am guessing is because Marriott's powers that be finally took some real action.

As for renting-  have to agree that as an owner my primary responsibility is to myself and to maximize my return. Some may view that as selfish, but it is no different than Marriott itself charging a premium for high demand weeks. It's the marketplace that dictates pricing, and it is entirely understandable that a savvy owner will want to maximize his/her profits. I can't see the potential for liability here- you are renting a villa in good condition as advertised, and are not responsible for other guests' behavior, nor for the weather, etc., as pointed out above.


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## jpc763 (Oct 25, 2012)

Wow!

I can't believe that EVERY guest is part of the problem.  Telling someone that they should not rent because of the possibility that they would rent to someone in this group is ridiculous.

That is like telling someone in Sturgis, SD to not rent out their property for a couple weeks in August.

Or telling someone that they should not rent their house at Augusta, GA for the Masters week for $5K.

Or even Daytona Beach or Fort Lauderdale during Spring Break!

Let him get as much as the market will pay.  If the resort doesn't like the conduct of the guests, they should take it up with the guests and bring in the proper authorities.  It is not up to a single owner to enforce the rules for all the rest.


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## tlwmkw (Oct 25, 2012)

This group reportedly has been banned from other hotels on Aruba and that is why they bought Marriott- to avoid being banned.  Apparently they own a large block of units and therefore have preference/power.  Whether you like it or not they have the right to book.  As others have said be warned and try to book at other times.  JMHO.

tlwmkw


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## Larry (Oct 25, 2012)

m61376 said:


> Although I have been told that the majority of guests involved that week stay at the hotel and at the Ocean Club, I was told by Surf Club employees the last two years that things were much, much better; reportedly last year things were well controlled and other than it being very busy there weren't the prior issues. Of course, I am reporting second hand information, but from what I heard both from employees at the beach and from other guests who were there during the period, I think that perhaps the interventions that Marriott reportedly made had a positive impact.
> 
> Sue- you are right- owners should scream to Marriott if their vacation is impacted by any other subset of owners. While these threads have denigrated in the past into anti-Semetic threads, it isn't the religious practices that have been an issue here; rather it has been the sense of entitlement, and poor supervision of kids, which unfortunately has been seen across many large groups that overrun a hotel or other property (think of some convention or similar group antics we've heard about over the years). My impression from talking with people a week or two later is that things have been much better controlled, which I am guessing is because Marriott's powers that be finally took some real action.
> 
> .



Excellent response!!!! I was actually in Aruba during that time period for the past 3 years and didn't find any  problems. I did not stay at the either Marriott timeshare but two years ago I did stay at the Marriott hotel for two nights prior to my two weeks at another Aruba timeshare. Yes there were large crowds (not so much last year) and lots of teenagers, and all teenagers can sometimes be a little out of control if not supervised. I did not find them to be overly pushy or behaving badly when we were there.

As far as the "group" goes I have read these posts for years and some have been down right nasty and have had anti-Semetic undertones that were totally inappropriate. Comments during the past couple of years have been toned down considerably.

Last year we met a couple and their family from this group who were sitting next to us on our flight to Aruba. We were staying for two nights at the Hyatt prior to our two weeks at La Cabana and we became quick buddies during the flight. They told us to look them up in Aruba. On Friday night we ran into this couple and about 40 of their family and extended family who had rented out part of a restaurant at the hotal for their dinner, which was served by hotel staff but was their own food that they brought with them and was heated up in the hotel Kitchen. As soon as they saw us they invited us to join them for dinner. Their kids were well dressed, extremely polite and the entire group was totally hospitable and although we already had eaten dinner we stayed for coffee and desert and spent the best night with them during our stay in Aruba.

I for one am getting tired of these annual threads directed at this "group"..


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## ilene13 (Oct 25, 2012)

Larry said:


> I for one am getting tired of these annual threads directed at this "group"..



Well said!  I agree wholeheartedly.


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## Pens_Fan (Oct 25, 2012)

When they are no longer noticeable by their actions, there will no longer be threads about them.


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## EKniager (Oct 25, 2012)

Pens_Fan said:


> When they are no longer noticeable by their actions, there will no longer be threads about them.



Maybe.  According to some folks, the behavior has improved and yet this thread is a legacy to the past.  It is not based on any new or current event.  The perception lives on.

And come on, let's face it LOL, Aruba is swarming with Yankees and Red Sox hats.  Regardless of their ethnic/religious backgrounds, folks from the Northeast can be a bit overbearing for the uninitiated!  Heck, they can rub me the wrong way, and as you can tell from my avatar, I'm original from the Boston suburbs. :hysterical:


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## SueDonJ (Oct 25, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Maybe.  According to some folks, the behavior has improved and yet this thread is a legacy to the past.  It is not based on any new or current event.  The perception lives on.
> 
> And come on, let's face it LOL, Aruba is swarming with Yankees and Red Sox hats.  Regardless of their ethnic/religious backgrounds, folks from the Northeast can be a bit overbearing for the uninitiated!  Heck, they can rub me the wrong way, and as you can tell from my avatar, I'm original from the Boston suburbs. :hysterical:



But have you ever known the Yankees or Red Sox fans to have to put up a surety bond to the resorts in order for their reservations to be accepted?  As long as Marriott officials accept that then they're tacitly agreeing with the group's behavior that's detrimental to other guests.

I do understand all the nuances of this discussion and certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me.  But until we have direct reports on TUG from folks who are there and witness an improvement, the way we've had reports on TUG in the past from eyewitnesses to the ridiculousness, I'm more inclined to believe that the situation is still occurring.  Hopefully it is at least being minimized somewhat ... but I'd want proof before I booked that week for a vacation.

A couple people have said that this is something that Marriott, the resorts and/or the HOAs should be taking care of based on rules being broken.  Well, if Marriott is allowing the group to use the resorts as long as they pay in advance for damages, the resort GMs have no power to override the official Marriott position in an attempt to enforce the rules.  The HOA comment I don't understand at all - the HOA is the owners!  If you think the HOA should be doing something about it, how can you be okay with owners renting out their Weeks to this group despite knowing the situation?


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## Larry (Oct 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I do understand all the nuances of this discussion and certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me.  But until we have direct reports on TUG from folks who are there and witness an improvement, the way we've had reports on TUG in the past from eyewitnesses to the ridiculousness, I'm more inclined to believe that the situation is still occurring.  Hopefully it is at least being minimized somewhat ... but I'd want proof before I booked that week for a vacation.



I guess you haven't read my post but I have been in Aruba for the past 3 years during weeks 3 and 4 and have not witnessed any such behavior. My major problem with this thread is the constant code words such as this "group" and calling week 3 or regents week "Hell week", by people who have never been to Aruba during weeks 3 or 4, I have.

Even when I have not stayed at the Marriott ( I did at least at the hotel) I have visited several times during my stay and other than some normal teenage behavior which some people have a low tolerance for, an ugly paint brush has been ceated which is being used to characterize "the group".

The OP starts this thread asking about when is "hell week in Aruba". This thread and previous years threads have caused this type of characterization which I find to be highly offensive. Perhaps people should ask what weeks  are the NY Regents exams being held in 2013 if they choose not to go that week that is a legitimate question.

Anyone can choose to go or not go to Aruba during any particular week but continuing a myth which probably was true to some extent 4 or 5 years ago has no longer been my observation during the last 3 years.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 25, 2012)

I read your post, Larry, and that's why I said I'd want to see eyewitness reports for what's currently happening.  I'm sorry, but I don't agree that your couple of visits while staying elsewhere is the same as a report from someone staying at the resorts for the duration.  But I do agree with you that "Hell Week" is an offensive term, which is why I answered the OP's question in this thread with a reference to the NY Regents Exams.

Through all these related discussions I've never intended to be offensive or discriminatory.  If there is a way to refer to an organized group as anything other than a group, I'll be happy to use whatever words you want.  But it won't matter because I couldn't care less what these people ARE, it's what they DO while staying at the resorts that causes their infamy on travel websites including TUG.  For me it's always been about the impact on owners/guests with no connection to the people behaving badly, and I'm astounded that Marriott continued to allow it for as many years as they have.  If it's not still happening, if other owners/guests are able to completely enjoy the vacations they expect, then that's wonderful.  But if it is, then we should continue to talk about it.

That's my opinion and it's perfectly okay for anyone to disagree with me.  But like I said, I don't mean to offend anyone so I'm done here.


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## Larry (Oct 25, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I read your post, Larry, and that's why I said I'd want to see eyewitness reports for what's currently happening.  I'm sorry, but I don't agree that your couple of visits while staying elsewhere is the same as a report from someone staying at the resorts for the duration.  But I do agree with you that "Hell Week" is an offensive term, which is why I answered the OP's question in this thread with a reference to the NY Regents Exams.
> 
> .



" A couple of visits while staying elsewhere", really now. 

I have stayed in Aruba for at least two weeks for the past 3 years during weeks 3 and 4. I also stayed at the Marriott hotel twice for two nights each time during week 3 or 4 before or after staying elsewhere. I have spent as much as 3-4 hours at the Marriott on several days during my visits to Aruba but you want someone "staying at the resort for the duration", which to me is seven days as your criteria as a reliable report? 

If I add up all of the time I have been to the Marriott during the dates in question it certainly adds up to at least that of anyone staying for the duration and is more representative in my opinion since it covers a 3 year span and not just a one week visit in one particular year. 

Tuggers who have never been to Aruba during weeks 3 or 4 continue referring to "the group" who behave badly during "hell week", which in my observation no longer appears to exist over the last 3 years.


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## m61376 (Oct 27, 2012)

Larry- unless things have changed, the bulk of the guests during that week stay at the hotel, and many activities are based at the hotel. So staying at the Stellaris would mean you also were staying there at the time in question, so you're right- you are able to give an eyewitness report. From what I've been told, a lot of guests bought at the OC and a smaller number oat the SC, so the prior issues were spread across all three properties. However, a few years back I know Marriott officials did intervene (at least that was reported here) and the last two years I was there the week afterwards and heard from both guests who, like you, were there at the time and from resort staff that the only real issue was that the place was crowded (like a holiday week) and bustling, but that there weren't any of the prior nightmare type issues.

It sounds like things have improved such that going during that week is akin to going during weeks 51, 52 or 7.

And, Sue, while you may never have intended to sound offensive, there have been so many discriminatory posts in virtually every one of these threads that may of us have almost a knee jerk reaction to these threads, perhaps over-reacting based on some of the prior comments made by others. I agree that no individual or group should be able to- or allowed to- disrupt the vacation of others. Unfortunately, what has happened over and over again here is that the behavior became stereotyped to the religious affiliation of the people in question. Frankly, we all should take umbrage at anyone doing that.


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## dwardlaw (Nov 9, 2012)

I have been to Aruba for the last 5 years for 2 weeks during the time that this group is there. Last year was one of the better years.
They let there young children from ages 6-10 wander at night alone through the buildings pushing all the elevator buttons and running up and down the hall late at night yelling.
Last year in the surf club they had to post security at the elevators.
They serve very young minors at all the bars so by mid afternoon a lot of them are drunk and out of control. 
They also invade the casino and are allowed to gamble.
This in part is Marriots fault and also lack of parental guidence
I have been witness to this every year. I wish I could change my weeks, but this the only time I can take off from work.
I do hope this year Marriott will be more on top of this behavior.


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## swaits (Nov 9, 2012)

Ok, I've seen this thread going for awhile. I've googled and come up empty. What exactly is "this group"? 

Please PM it to me if you'd rather not discuss it openly or if it'd be more appropriate under TUG rules.


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## rthib (Nov 9, 2012)

swaits said:


> Ok, I've seen this thread going for awhile. I've googled and come up empty. What exactly is "this group"?
> 
> Please PM it to me if you'd rather not discuss it openly or if it'd be more appropriate under TUG rules.



From the 2011 thread

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1038023&postcount=33

Discussing why or how or who has been done to death since I joined TUG.

Just know that it is and accept that it will happen and nothing is going to change.


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## Sunbum (Nov 10, 2012)

dwardlaw said:


> I have been to Aruba for the last 5 years for 2 weeks during the time that this group is there. Last year was one of the better years.
> They let there young children from ages 6-10 wander at night alone through the buildings pushing all the elevator buttons and running up and down the hall late at night yelling.
> Last year in the surf club they had to post security at the elevators.
> They serve very young minors at all the bars so by mid afternoon a lot of them are drunk and out of control.
> ...



Thank you for your "hands on" comments.


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## larue (Dec 4, 2012)

*Found this on Delta*

Not sure if this is related, but I thought it might be.


Last Updated: November 28, 2012, 5pm EST (-5 GMT)
The New York City School system has rescheduled the public school's February break. To allow customers flexibility in rescheduling family vacation flight plans, Delta will waive the applicable change fees. See below for the affected airports and dates. You can check flight status frequently for up-to-the-minute info about your flight plans, or get updates sent directly to your wireless device or email with Delta Messenger.  
RESCHEDULING FLIGHTS
You may make a one-time change to your ticket without fee if you are scheduled to travel from the following cities on Delta, Delta Connection®, or Delta-coded flights during the specified time periods listed below.
You may contact Reservation Sales to make changes to your itinerary. Additional collection in fares may apply. See Conditions & Restrictions below.
Affected Origin(s) (From only)
Impacted Travel Date(s)
Ticket must be Reissued On or Before
Rebooked Travel must begin no later than
Only customers with an Original Ticket Issue Date on or before Nov 19, 2012 are eligible.


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## Mr. Vker (Dec 4, 2012)

larue said:


> Not sure if this is related, but I thought it might be.
> 
> 
> Last Updated: November 28, 2012, 5pm EST (-5 GMT)
> ...



Looks like some people will be Hell-i-screwed. No way I can think Marriott can move all of those reservations.


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## Mamianka (Dec 4, 2012)

Mr. Vker said:


> Looks like some people will be Hell-i-screwed. No way I can think Marriott can move all of those reservations.



February break  often called Presidents' weekend - is NOT the same as the Regents Exam week.  A local school district can schedule vacation days, snow day make-ups, etc. as they require or wish - but the Regents Weeks ( January and June) and the same for EVERY district in the state.  Exams in every subject are given at the same time on the same day, so that someone who took an Algebra test on a Tuesday cannot email their recollections of the questions to their cousin in another town, who might be taking it on a Thursday.  This is very strictly aligned.  Not all students need to take these January exams - so they just have time off.  It seems that a few enterprising travel agents have taken advantage of this by creating tour packages, and some of these go to Aruba - a great place for frozen New Yorkers to get to in January.  There might be other groups in other places that are well-behaved - it seems we are focused here on a situation that demonstrates especially POOR supervision - initially, by parents.  This will not change, no matter where or when these trips and groups are.  But in this case - it is NOT the time (January versus February) that is the problem - it is the parents, and the financial leverage they have over Marriott.  The easiest thing to do is "vote with your feet' - do not GO there that week.  Period.  Tell Marriott why.  They might be happy that this gives them more space for tour groups.  Maybe not.  But NYC schools having a date change in February is NOT any solution - people who wish to go to Aruba and have some peace, should just NOT go during Regents Week.  Period.  There are 51 other weeks in the year, folks.

Mamianka


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## laurac260 (Dec 5, 2012)

What amazes me is that this thread is allowed to be reposted and continued, year after year.  

Appalling.


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## larue (Dec 5, 2012)

Sorry to offend.  I just saw the fee-free flight changes on Delta and thought it might be related to concerns previously expressed regarding when the New York schools break occurred and how that affected crowding at different resorts.


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## ilene13 (Dec 5, 2012)

laurac260 said:


> What amazes me is that this thread is allowed to be reposted and continued, year after year.
> 
> Appalling.



Thank you!!!


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## jimf41 (Dec 5, 2012)

As one who has had a long planned, hard earned vacation totally ruined by the group of folks that are the topic of this thread I hope it continues every year. I understand the fine line of political correctness that percolates up now and then but this is not about religion, geography or politics. It simply a warning that a certain resort has decided to cater to an unruly group of folks who pay for their damages each visit.

I wish I had known about it prior to my trip planning in January 2002. I didn't and I still have a bad feeling about one of the most prime spots in the Caribbean.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 5, 2012)

laurac260 said:


> What amazes me is that this thread is allowed to be reposted and continued, year after year.
> 
> Appalling.





ilene13 said:


> Thank you!!!



I think it's important that we continue to report circumstances at ANY resort which might negatively impact any of the other guests.  IMO, as both a TUG participant and as moderator of the board, I honestly don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know of such things happening.

I do understand that this particular situation has the potential to offend someone's sensibilities IF certain lines are crossed.  Apparently the term "Hell Week" crosses those lines for some of you so I will be editing that term out of the thread (sometime this evening.)  But the fact is, there is a large, organized group at the core of this situation, and I don't know how to refer to a group as anything other than a group!  It's certainly not necessary to refer to the particular ethnicity/religious persuasion/whatever of the group in order to post about the situation but that cat was let out of the bag a long time ago, and not just here on TUG.  There's nothing that can be done now to un-learn the group's ethnicity/religious persuasion/whatever.

Like most of you I wish there had never been a reason for this situation to be reported to TUG and the many other travel-related websites.  But making the entire topic "off limits" on TUG doesn't make any sense to me.  The situation does still exist as evidenced by recent posts about it, and I think the posts to TUG are a good thing for folks who come here looking for travel/resort advice.

If you feel that there have been specific things written that are in violation of the TUG Posting Rules, please report the posts and/or send me a PM or an email with the specifics quoted.

Let me just say, this is the best way I know of to try to take care of this situation but it's of course possible that I'm biased.  As a Marriott owner I want to know when out-of-the-ordinary things might be happening at the resorts which I may choose to exchange into, so I don't want to institute a blanket policy of prohibiting this entire topic (or any other similar ones, should they arise.)  Sometime tonight I'll also be calling this post to the attention of TUG Admin and the other moderators.  If you feel that I'm not handling this correctly, PLEASE send a PM to TUGBrian with your concerns.  (If you post them here he may not see them in a timely manner.)


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