# Owner Update Vistana Villages



## Scott&Laura (Oct 31, 2013)

We recently stayed at Orlando Vistana Villages and went to owner update.
Our timeshares are all Maui and we thought of getting Orlando because it was close.

They offered to trade two weeks of Maui for 5 weeks of Vistana resort.
We would pick up about 80,000 Staroptions but aren't sure its worth it. We would have lower and more stable fee costs as Maui will continue to go up. 

We asked to look at the Resort and the new room remodeling looks nice but the resort itself looks like a dump. It looks like the whole resort infrastructure needs remodeling and subsequent huge fee increases to go along with it. 

The upside of the meeting was a very enjoyable gentleman told us that at Hotels  -- to  ask about the best room available before checking in and after they let know then let them know your Platinum and checking in. He said the Hotels try to hide best room available from upgrade so they can book it later

The downside was after talking at update they shuffled us into a room where you get the cheap tickets to disney etc. and a gal sat down and browbeat us and would not sign off to get tickets. After that didn't work and we wanted to leave she then went to an office and a guy came out and promptly stated how he "overheard" the conversation even though he wasn't anywhere near and started browbeating us unmercifully he and she droned on and on repeating their sales pitch over and over so we walked off and he immediately intervened between me and my wife and started to browbeat her. That I thought was extremely innapropriate. the gal came out and started all over and I just walked off. Clearly they reflect Orlando's management and expressed a profound lack of integrity. 

Anyway is it worth it to trade Maui for weeks in Orlando for 80,000 staroptions more? 

Scott


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## Ken555 (Oct 31, 2013)

Scott&Laura said:


> Anyway is it worth it to trade Maui for weeks in Orlando for 80,000 staroptions more?



Sorry to hear about your experience with the sales dept. I can't say I'm surprised, tho. Don't believe everything they say - for instance, hotels don't try to "hide" rooms but sometimes there are exceptions...and of course any SPG property should know you are platinum if you reserve via SPG. 

As for trading Maui for Orlando...not a good idea. Maui will retain some value, even with relatively high MF. You didn't say how much new money you would need to pay for this trade to Orlando (I would be surprised if none, but then Maui is worth a lot more for them) but I wouldn't think it would be worth anything, given the ease with which you can obtain Orlando weeks. Don't do it.


Sent from my iPad


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## LisaRex (Oct 31, 2013)

The cost of SOs for Hawaii and SVV owners are pretty similar.  Hawaii owners pay ~$2400 for 148,100 SOs, or 1.62 cents per SO.  SVV platinum owners pay 1.35 cents per SO if they own a 2 bdrm ($1100 for 81,000 SOs) or 1.56 cents per SO if they own a 2 bdrm lockoff ($1500 for 95,700 SOs).  So a bit higher in Hawaii per SO currently, but certainly not enough to tempt me to trade one for the other. 

Which brings us to resale value.  If you own IV, I believe you could sell those 2 Hawaii units for at least $6,000 apiece or $12,000 total on the resale market.  5 SVV units (I assume you'd buy a mandatory phase!) could be bought for about the same price.  So the only way you don't lose money on the proposed transaction is if you own IV.  Otherwise, if you own an upgraded view, then you'd be losing thousands of dollars that you'd have pocketed had you sold the 2 Hawaii units on the resale market, then turned around and simply bought 5 SVV mandatory units.  Though, honestly, if I was okay re-investing all the Hawaii proceeds, I'd buy WKV instead.

(FWIW, I own one EY and one EOY SVV but I bought them as a cheap, low-risk SVN exchanger. I could have bought WKV, but I opted for SVV instead because I don't plan to own SVO long enough to break even on the purchase price difference.)    

Finally, if you plan to travel to Hawaii most years, you'll lose your Owners priority AND your upgraded view.  That'd be a shame. 

Re MFs: I understand your concerns.  Personally, I think that Starwood deliberately tested the waters by significantly raising MFs over a 3-5 year period, to see how high they could raise them before they reached a point of dimished returns.  They found that point for most of their resorts around 2009/10 when we all saw record delinquency rates.  I doubt Starwood is going to repeat that experiment anytime soon, certainly not while the economy remains stalled. That would risk entering another vicious cycle of delinquencies causing higher MFs which causes even more delinquencies.   Once you get caught up in the maelstrom, it's difficult to recover. 

What I think we'll see instead of significant MF increases are: 1) Higher SVN fees (a captive audience and pure profit); 2) Stable MFs but diminished quality/services.  With only a few "new" projects on the horizon, which is where the big money is, they need to make money without risking killing the golden goose.   If they raise MFs much higher than rental rates, the system won't sustain itself because people will simply walk away. 

Good luck in your decision!


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## vistana101 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks for sharing! So did you see a remodeled unit from the Bella phase? I've really been wanting to see what they look like! Any details of the new rooms would be great, like if they redid the kitchens/bathrooms with granite. Thanks!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 31, 2013)

LisaR makes some excellent point.  I do not think it was a deliberate experiment by SVO - just that they are not all that bright and did not recognize the downside of the consequences until too late (likely due to poor decision making practices within the organization).  IMO


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 31, 2013)

To me, the underlying value of the weeks is important, which you need to separate from the SO's.  Westin Ka'anapali has a very high resale price, which has ROFR attached to it. 

Vistana Villages sells very cheaply with SO's included for the mandatory phases.  

I question Starwood's decision to make most of newer resorts voluntary.  You were probably looking at buying into the voluntary phases of VV.  Not wise for resale value.  

The salespeople make everything look so good, but in fact, this would not be a positive move.  Sell Maui on your own, then buy resale mandatory VV.  I would not do it.


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## VacationForever (Oct 31, 2013)

Sorry that they put you through browbeating.  When I was at SVR a year ago, the experience was the opposite.  I went to ticketing to buy tickets and they told me that they could sell me discounted tickets if we agreed to attend an owners update.  The sold us the tickets at full price which we then used before we went to the update.  After the update we simply went back to the ticketing counter and they applied the credit to our credit cards.  It saved the 2 of us about $300.


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## DeniseM (Oct 31, 2013)

> They offered to trade two weeks of Maui for 5 weeks of Vistana resort.



If you are willing to take this deal, I'd like to trade my 5 Pintos in return for your 2 Mercedes....


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## Bob808 (Oct 31, 2013)

Lisa, in your hypothetical"...you could sell those two Hawaii units for at least $6000 apiece..." if it correct to assume the proposed buyer would not actually end up buying the units but Starwood would exercise ROFR?  It appears to me the ROFR thread suggests Starwood is exercising Island Views at $11,500 and up.


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## LisaRex (Nov 1, 2013)

Bob808 said:


> Lisa, in your hypothetical"...you could sell those two Hawaii units for at least $6000 apiece..." if it correct to assume the proposed buyer would not actually end up buying the units but Starwood would exercise ROFR?  It appears to me the ROFR thread suggests Starwood is exercising Island Views at $11,500 and up.



Certainly. 

I have no idea what the OPer owns, except that it's at WKORV.  So I used the 2 cheapest units for sale on Redweek ($5850 for a 1 bdrm EOY OV at WKORV and $6199 for a 2 bdrm EOY odd IV at WKORV-N) as the "rock bottom" price the OPer could expect to get for her Maui units on the resale market. Depending on what she actually owns -- north or south, annual or EOY, 1 bdrm or 2 bdrm, IV, OV or OF -- she can expect to get a lot more.  

No matter what she sells them for, ROFR may be exercised, That's beyond her control.


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## PamMo (Nov 1, 2013)

No matter how I look at it, Starwood's offer to the OP doesn't add up, unless they're getting smaller units and/or Gold weeks in the trade. I'm always amused how salespeople toss out numbers, scribble notes on a piece of paper, and you're left with nothing but smoke to decipher.

Two annual 2BR weeks in Maui are worth 296,200 StarOptions @ $4,183 (WKORV), $4,688 (WKORVN), or $5,763 (WKORV 2BR corner deluxe) in annual MF's (2013).  These units are worth anywhere from $12K-$30K each on the resale market.

The offer was for five SVV units to get about 80K more StarOptions. In the Bella phase of Sheraton Vistana Villages, five 2BR Platinum weeks are worth 405,000 StarOptions (108,800 more SO's) @ $4,902 in MF's. A quick search of sold auctions on eBay shows 2BR's in mandatory phases of SVV sell for under $2,000/week.

On the other hand, four 2BR Platinum weeks in the Bella phase of Sheraton Vistana Villages would give them 324,000 SO's (27,800 more SO's) @ $3,922/yr.

If the OP doesn't use his Maui units and just wants StarOptions, it _might _make sense to sell his weeks and buy resale SVV mandatory weeks - especially if he owns deluxe units at WKORV. But he shouldn't believe for a minute that MF's will not go up in Florida (X 5 units).

(Thanks to Nico for the easily referenced MF numbers above!)


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## Sea Six (Nov 2, 2013)

I've taken tours at a variety of Starwood resorts, and find that the sales staff at Vistana (resort and villages) is the rudest, most obnoxious I've ever encountered. But, I get the free stuff anyway!


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2013)

Sea Six said:


> I've taken tours at a variety of Starwood resorts, and find that the sales staff at Vistana (resort and villages) is the rudest, most obnoxious I've ever encountered. But, I get the free stuff anyway!



We found the owner update at SVR the least stressful of the several that we went to. We simply told them that since we already own at SVR and that we had no interest in owning another one in Orlando, it was end of discussion.  They said they could not sell other Starwood properties outside of Orlando.  The discussion then went on as to our feedback about the resort.  It was very pleasant.


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## Sea Six (Nov 3, 2013)

sptung said:


> We found the owner update at SVR the least stressful of the several that we went to. We simply told them that since we already own at SVR and that we had no interest in owning another one in Orlando, it was end of discussion.  They said they could not sell other Starwood properties outside of Orlando.  The discussion then went on as to our feedback about the resort.  It was very pleasant.



You were lucky - the exception, not the rule.  We've done it several times, and now after they finish with the tour, they sick someone else on you to try and sell an "Explorer package".


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## bullroc3 (Nov 5, 2013)

Was it Doug? suspenders and colored socks?


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## LisaRex (Nov 5, 2013)

I've owned three timeshares and have never attended a sales presentation or Owner's Update.   It's not worth whatever free stuff they're peddling to be harassed.  Life is too short.


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## mich (Nov 7, 2013)

*currently at Bella Phase*

We are down for a week on a package deal we got a phone call about.  Certain 2 bedroom owners were allegedly targeted in the hopes of pitching a second week at Vistana.  That resort has quite a few delinquent owners and they are trying to unload the weeks for an additional $11000 (plus our current unit traded in)  The maintenance fees there would mean you could own 2 weeks for about $1500 or so a year.  Either way we aren't interested.  But to answer the question above on the reno..the room we are in is a one bedroom premium.  It's basically been gutted- new carpet , new tiles,  granite in the kitchen and bathroom, new appliances and  a brand new pullout sofa in the living room. The dining room table and chairs are not new or perhaps someone recently was very careless with a hot pot and set it right on the table top.  The sofa bed is fine when it's being used as a bed but when it is set up as a couch it's horrendous.  It's so firm it's like sitting on a park bench.  Other than that, it's a good room and pleasant to stay in.


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## LisaRex (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks for the update.  Any chance you could take some photos of the renovation to show us? 

Enjoy your stay!


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## vistana101 (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks so much for the information. Do you know what the number of your building is? Yes as LisaRex said any pictures would be wonderful if possible, and have a great vacation!


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 8, 2013)

I was not sure of buildings at Vistana Resort

If I understood correctly all the rooms were being upgraded.The Resort is a dump though

We stayed in Building 24 at Vistana Villages  The rooms were redone on a par with Maui  They did a nice job  They are doing Building 22? while we were there

Didn't take pictures


Scott&Laura


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## vistana101 (Nov 9, 2013)

Scott&Laura said:


> I was not sure of buildings at Vistana Resort
> 
> If I understood correctly all the rooms were being upgraded.The Resort is a dump though
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info! Sorry I misunderstood originally and didn't see that you saw the remodeled rooms at the RESORT, I thought you saw a renovated room at Vistana Villages as the Bella (original phase) is currently undergoing an interior renovation.


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## mich (Nov 10, 2013)

*sorry-we were in Amelia not Bella for our stay*

My apologies folks..I mixed up the sections.  We are so used to only staying in St Augustine at the pirate pool I confused the other ones.  When we arrived we were put into a room in Bella in the older section.  They moved us to Amelia the next morning into a newly renovated room which was really nice.  I don't have any pictures but can advise that Bella building one will be done in about 2 to 3 weeks and then they will head to Building 9 to start gutting that one. Whoever said the resort is a dump is being harsh-it's not true. My son loves it there and I don't have any complaints either.  The pirate ship and slide are fantastic for kids and the kid's activities are fun too.  I wouldn't necessarily go there as a couple only but for families..it's excellent.


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## tfalk (Nov 11, 2013)

For anyone going to the 'update' aka sellathon at SVV, there is one quick and easy way to turn the nice sales person into an ice cold can't get you out of their office fast enough sales person...

Just mention redweek.com and buying resale.  Out of the office in 5 minutes.  Done.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 20, 2013)

Mich   

You talk about Amelia and Bella That is the Vistana Villages not the Vistana Resort which is near Disney Epcot and I do think is a dump.   The Vistana Resort  clearly needs a huge infrastructure investment to clean up and fix grounds.


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## vistana101 (Dec 1, 2013)

I believe by now building one should be complete! If anyone is at Vistana Villages or is traveling there and could get any information or pictures that would be awesome!


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## Da5id (Dec 20, 2013)

Building one and two are complete in Bella. Bldgs 3,4 and 5 are currently barricaded off undergoing renovation. I passed a Simmons Beautyrest truck yesterday that was offloading beds.

 I'm staying in the Keys which is nice and quiet. I don't know if these rooms have been renovated or not but everything looks new. Furniture is the same Destroy-the-Back type found at other SVO locations. Room has a Blu-ray player - first time I've seen that. The biggie for me is WiFi is 3MB down/ 1-2MB up!!!! I've been streaming Netflix on my iPad without a stutter. Hope Kierland does this (and everyplace else for that matter). 

Seems a little slow here, maybe the big rush starts next week. Staff is very friendly. Haven't been called at all about owner update, probably because I came by myself. Golf is great down here. Orlando has changed quite a bit since I went to Navy Nuclear school here in 1977.


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## vistana101 (Dec 21, 2013)

Da5id said:


> Building one and two are complete in Bella. Bldgs 3,4 and 5 are currently barricaded off undergoing renovation. I passed a Simmons Beautyrest truck yesterday that was offloading beds.
> 
> I'm staying in the Keys which is nice and quiet. I don't know if these rooms have been renovated or not but everything looks new. Furniture is the same Destroy-the-Back type found at other SVO locations. Room has a Blu-ray player - first time I've seen that. The biggie for me is WiFi is 3MB down/ 1-2MB up!!!! I've been streaming Netflix on my iPad without a stutter. Hope Kierland does this (and everyplace else for that matter).
> 
> Seems a little slow here, maybe the big rush starts next week. Staff is very friendly. Haven't been called at all about owner update, probably because I came by myself. Golf is great down here. Orlando has changed quite a bit since I went to Navy Nuclear school here in 1977.



Thank you so much for the info!! Enjoy your vacation and happy holidays!


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## paluamalia (Dec 29, 2013)

*Another Owner's update*

We are here at SVV until mid-March..using our timeshares to try out snowbirding!  We own in Maui and exchanged for all this time.  We are in the Key West section...very nice view, quiet, away from all the construction...looks like a big project.
Went to the owners update today.   As reported before they tried to get us to trade "up" from our EOY OV in KAN...they would give us 2 two bedrooms platinum season every year here... we trade in our Maui timeshare and another $16,700...:annoyed:
When that did not work they offered another trade just as bad.  We told them we would do it if they did not charge us anything, they said no. 
Unlike other owners updates this one was really all sales, no info.
I would not say that they lie, but they do twist facts a bit.  I mentioned that we could buy a 2 bedroom on TUG or Redweek for about 10% or less than they were asking and of course as you know they said, but that would be restricted use!!
Anyway, we are enjoying our stay, and we still have our money in our pockets!
Happy New Year


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## czar (Dec 29, 2013)

paluamalia said:


> We are here at SVV until mid-March..using our timeshares to try out snowbirding!  We own in Maui and exchanged for all this time.



Hope you enjoy your extended stay. We actually enjoyed our time at SVR but have not been to SVV. 

Just curious - it sounds like you were able to trade for 11 or 12 weeks?  With just your Maui unit?


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## paluamalia (Jan 2, 2014)

*Exchange*

We used over 500,000 points. 2 banked weeks for 2013 in Maui
One 2014 week and 2 weeks vistana
So 64,000 Vistana.
I need a calculator for the math..148,000 x 3 and 37,000 x 2
jan 3 - March 20 one bedroom premium 
The points are lower in Jan, then go up again in Feb
We rented in Florida before and the MFs are comparable to a one bedroom rental in a resort type place. Except all is included here, cleaning utilities wifi, etc
This is a first for us this long....but there is a blizzard bearing down at home and it's in the seventies here!
We booked exactly 8 months out.
We take the auto train in VA after driving from MA..so we have all our stuff


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## pointsjunkie (Jan 2, 2014)

paluamalia said:


> We are here at SVV until mid-March..using our timeshares to try out snowbirding!  We own in Maui and exchanged for all this time.  We are in the Key West section...very nice view, quiet, away from all the construction...looks like a big project.
> Went to the owners update today.   As reported before they tried to get us to trade "up" from our EOY OV in KAN...they would give us 2 two bedrooms platinum season every year here... we trade in our Maui timeshare and another $16,700...:annoyed:
> When that did not work they offered another trade just as bad.  We told them we would do it if they did not charge us anything, they said no.
> Unlike other owners updates this one was really all sales, no info.
> ...



will be at SVV from 1/16-1/21. the snow is coming ,starts soon. yuck.


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## paluamalia (Jan 2, 2014)

*We are in Keys*

Hope you get down here soon!!  I keep getting alerts from NStar and National Grid about the storm heading for Cape Cod (our home)..

Quiet now that the Holidays are nearly over...


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## STEVIE (Jan 2, 2014)

Hi,
What is an "Auto train"?
Sue


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## Aviator621 (Jan 3, 2014)

susgar said:


> Hi,
> What is an "Auto train"?
> Sue



I believe they are talking about the train that departs from Lorton VA (just south of DC) that you can load your car on for a trip to Orlando. Here is the link: http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train


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## paluamalia (Jan 5, 2014)

*Auto train*

Hi sue 
Yes, you drive to Lorton,Va just outside of DC then put your vehicle on the train. It leaves at about 4 pm and you wake up in Sanford FL
There are classes of travel from a private bedroom with bath to a reclining seat. We get the full bedroom..
Booking well in advance helps with the price....including the car it costs between $700 and $1400 one way for two in the bedroom.....it works a lot like the airlines....
One thing to note you can use SPG points...30,000 for bedroom for 2 and the car one way.   We usually book at least one direction this way....whichever is more expensive.  There a few blackout dates but not many.  
They have a wine and cheese event when you first board, then dinner and breakfast next day.  If you have the bedroom you can get your food served there.  We did it this time because my partner was recovering from shoulder surgery and did not want to be bumped around too much...it was very nice, we had a good attendant.
We enjoy the trip very much.


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