# Diamond resorts owner..not happy



## on the back 9 (Dec 11, 2022)

Trying to get to the bottom of my rights as Diamond owner..not wanting to upgrade to Hilton Max....Can Diamond cut us out? 
Didn't Hilton acquire us in the merge


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## artringwald (Dec 11, 2022)

Diamond is now owned by Hilton. For now, some properties are being rebranded by Hilton, and others will retain the Diamond name. In either case, you can keep using your Diamond ownership the same way you always have. Most would not recommend upgrading to Hilton Max. It's expensive to do so, and won't gain you much value. If you want more information, you came to the right place. Attending a sales presentation to get more information is really a bad idea. You won't be able to trust anything they say.


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## kanerf (Dec 11, 2022)

Yup, I am HGVC and will not be upgrading either.


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## on the back 9 (Dec 11, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Diamond is now owned by Hilton. For now, some properties are being rebranded by Hilton, and others will retain the Diamond name. In either case, you can keep using your Diamond ownership the same way you always have. Most would not recommend upgrading to Hilton Max. It's expensive to do so, and won't gain you much value. If you want more information, you came to the right place. Attending a sales presentation to get more information is really a bad idea. You won't be able to trust anything they say.


Great to hear reply from someone who understands...still hopeful to use my membership and points as previously did..they did discontinue the club combo thing..which made it easier to use....was being told today that Diamond is still charging me for that service not being used..have other timeshare that will use independently...Thanx


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## on the back 9 (Dec 11, 2022)

kanerf said:


> Yup, I am HGVC and will not be upgrading either.


So you wont be able to use Diamond properties...allegedly..Sounds like they don't want to run 2 companies..good luck


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## kanerf (Dec 11, 2022)

on the back 9 said:


> So you wont be able to use Diamond properties...allegedly..Sounds like they don't want to run 2 companies..good luck


Nope, but not really interested.  I can trade in through RCI or II anyways.


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## geist1223 (Dec 11, 2022)

"They did discontinue club combo thing" that is not completely accurate. They did reduce which timeshares they will take in trade for DRI one time use Points. Though if you buy into Max you do lose it and some other perks.


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## StrikingOcelot (Dec 12, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Diamond is now owned by Hilton. For now, some properties are being rebranded by Hilton, and others will retain the Diamond name. In either case, you can keep using your Diamond ownership the same way you always have. Most would not recommend upgrading to Hilton Max. It's expensive to do so, and won't gain you much value. If you want more information, you came to the right place. Attending a sales presentation to get more information is really a bad idea. You won't be able to trust anything they say.


So what happens to the resorts keeping the Diamond name? Who will own them?

If I don't buy into Hilton, will I still have access to Diamond properties? Obviously this all very confusing


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## artringwald (Dec 12, 2022)

All the resorts that were owned by Diamond are now owned by Hilton. Rebranding is an expensive process, new signage, stationary, business cards, web site, etc. Initially, only some of the resorts will be rebranded. Over the years, I expect all of them will be. As far as using your ownership, all the privileges as specified in your contract, will still be honored. Some Diamond features that aren't in the contract have changed over time, and will probably continue to change under HIlton ownership. Do not be conned into buying Hilton Max unless you fully understand what you're getting into. You don't have to buy into it to continue used your ownership as specified in your contract.

Coincidently, I received this email today.


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## DaveNV (Dec 12, 2022)

Just a side question:  Since Hilton now owns the Kaanapali Beach Club in Lahaina, as well as Point at Poipu on Kauai, and they are no longer Diamond-branded properties, can a Diamond owner book them?  I'm wondering if buying Diamond resale would be worthwhile. 

I'm not (yet) interested in going full-on Hilton, but wondering if there is any value in becoming a Diamond owner at this point.

Dave


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## artringwald (Dec 12, 2022)

As of today, I can still use my Diamond Club Points to book any Diamond managed or affiliated property in Hawaii. Oddly, it shows that Point at Poipu is a HGV property and Kaanapali Beach Club is a Diamond managed property. I get similar results if I try and use one of my deeded weeks to go through the Diamond Xchange program.


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## chapjim (Dec 12, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Just a side question:  Since Hilton now owns the Kaanapali Beach Club in Lahaina, as well as Point at Poipu on Kauai, and they are no longer Diamond-branded properties, can a Diamond owner book them?  I'm wondering if buying Diamond resale would be worthwhile.
> 
> I'm not (yet) interested in going full-on Hilton, but wondering if there is any value in becoming a Diamond owner at this point.
> 
> Dave



It being almost universally agreed that HGV Max isn't worth the money, I took a different approach.  I stuck my toe in the HGVC water by buying 7,680 points at Tuscany Village for $1.00.  Total cost with 2023 maintenance fees and Hilton's add-ons was $2,380.

I don't know if that was a prudent acquisition (I haven't totally wrapped my arms around this Diamond to Hilton thing) but it's not anything close to what HGV Max would cost.  Those points along with my modest Diamond account might let me reduce the size of my Wyndham account even further than I already have.


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## Arusso (Dec 12, 2022)

artringwald said:


> All the resorts that were owned by Diamond are now owned by Hilton. Rebranding is an expensive process, new signage, stationary, business cards, web site, etc. Initially, only some of the resorts will be rebranded. Over the years, I expect all of them will be. As far as using your ownership, all the privileges as specified in your contract, will still be honored. Some Diamond features that aren't in the contract have changed over time, and will probably continue to change under HIlton ownership. Do not be conned into buying Hilton Max unless you fully understand what you're getting into. You don't have to buy into it to continue used your ownership as specified in your contract.
> 
> Coincidently, I received this email today.
> View attachment 70097


Prudent advice.  Based on what else has happened in the industry in the past post-merger period, Hilton needs to determine which properties it wants to keep in its portfolio for strictly business reasons i.e. due to location.  For resorts that have not been rebranded already and are not on the docket to do so or 2023, this most certainly will require Hilton to invest $$.  In my view, it's unconscionable to believe that Hilton would want to retain properties in its portfolio that do not now nor can in the future meet its specs.  Therefore, some properties will be sold off.  

I too received the above email from HGV.  If I can read into this, I believe that over time, Hilton is planning on burying the Diamond name altogether.  

Also, in my USPS mail today,  I rec's an invoice for "Club dues."  Not surprising.  It is after all December.  The Dues, or as is referenced in the Header of the Invoice, "2023 Assessment Fee,"  is actually a composite of two fees.  The first is referred to as "2023-The Club® *Base* Standard Assessment" and the second "2023-The Club® *Point* Standard Assessment."  I do not recall ever seeing the Club Dues itemized in such fashion.  The bottom line is that the combines "Amount Due" is $20 more than last year.   I'm curious if anyone has noted the separation of fees.  I'm not at all surprised at the increase.  a $20/yr increase in Club Dues seems to have been the norm for tha past couple of years.


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## Arusso (Dec 12, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Just a side question:  Since Hilton now owns the Kaanapali Beach Club in Lahaina, as well as Point at Poipu on Kauai, and they are no longer Diamond-branded properties, can a Diamond owner book them?  I'm wondering if buying Diamond resale would be worthwhile.
> 
> I'm not (yet) interested in going full-on Hilton, but wondering if there is any value in becoming a Diamond owner at this point.
> 
> Dave


My understanding is that there are no more "Diamond" sales from Hilton.  The entire sales force is now employed by Hilton and everything they sell is a Hilton property.  As you know, in August 2021, Hilton acquired the entire Diamond portfolio of resorts.   As such, and based on some common sense analysis, Hilton has already rebranded some properties as HVC and a scant few as HGVC because they are "good to go as is."  

Going forward, the only way to buy a "Diamond" property today is to buy one from a current owner and that particular property has not already been rebranded HGV or HGVC.   I suspect some Diamond properties will never be rebranded either because they do not meet Hilton's specs or are in locations that are not desirable.  In this case, Hilton will dispose of them.  It's also been commented on that if a property is strategically located but not up to snuff,  Hilton will spend the $$ to make it worthy of the signage.


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## DaveNV (Dec 12, 2022)

Arusso said:


> My understanding is that there are no more "Diamond" sales from Hilton.  The entire sales force is now employed by Hilton and everything they sell is a Hilton property.  As you know, in August 2021, Hilton acquired the entire Diamond portfolio of resorts.   As such, and based on some common sense analysis, Hilton has already rebranded some properties as HVC and a scant few as HGVC because they are "good to go as is."
> 
> Going forward, the only way to buy a "Diamond" property today is to buy one from a current owner and that particular property has not already been rebranded HGV or HGVC.   I suspect some Diamond properties will never be rebranded either because they do not meet Hilton's specs or are in locations that are not desirable.  In this case, Hilton will dispose of them.  It's also been commented on that if a property is strategically located but not up to snuff,  Hilton will spend the $$ to make it worthy of the signage.



I was referring to buying a Diamond ownership resale, from someone who wants out.  There seems to be many Diamond owners who want to let go.  My curiosity is whether there would be a reason to take on that ownership. If I could book the properties I'm most interested in visiting (KBC and P@P) then it might be worth it.  But if Hilton is stirring the pot to force Diamond owners out, then it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

For the record, I would never, ever buy from the Developer.  I've spent way too many years on Tug to fall for that trap. 

Dave


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## artringwald (Dec 12, 2022)

Arusso said:


> Also, in my USPS mail today, I rec's an invoice for "Club dues." Not surprising. It is after all December. The Dues, or as is referenced in the Header of the Invoice, "2023 Assessment Fee," is actually a composite of two fees. The first is referred to as "2023-The Club® *Base* Standard Assessment" and the second "2023-The Club® *Point* Standard Assessment." I do not recall ever seeing the Club Dues itemized in such fashion. The bottom line is that the combines "Amount Due" is $20 more than last year. I'm curious if anyone has noted the separation of fees. I'm not at all surprised at the increase. a $20/yr increase in Club Dues seems to have been the norm for tha past couple of years.


It sound like you purchased a deeded week that came with Club membership, as opposed to purchased Club points that were part of a collection. Up until 2015, the Club dues for deeded ownership were a fixed price. Starting in 2015, they switched to a base fee plus an assessment fee based on how many points you had in the Club. If you log into the web site, you can see statements back to 2017. In the FAQ they say:



> Q.1. What are assessment fees and who determines them?
> A.1. THE Club® Dues covers all the services required to operate the provide the benefits of THE Club®, such as call center and operational services, II
> exchange and Gold membership, member publications, as well as audit fees. THE Club® Dues is made up of two components:
> THE Club® Base Standard Assessment: A base fee paid equally by all members within the membership class irrespective of how many points
> ...


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## Arusso (Dec 12, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I was referring to buying a Diamond ownership resale, from someone who wants out.  There seems to be many Diamond owners who want to let go.  My curiosity is whether there would be a reason to take on that ownership. If I could book the properties I'm most interested in visiting (KBC and P@P) then it might be worth it.  But if Hilton is stirring the pot to force Diamond owners out, then it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
> 
> For the record, I would never, ever buy from the Developer.  I've spent way too many years on Tug to fall for that trap.
> 
> Dave


Got it.  Always a good strategy !  I imagine the only issue would be if you bought a DRI property resale and Hilton decides not rebrand it and disposes it.    That's not likely to occur in prime vacation destinations.  Yet, for some reason, I suspect that Hilton will not want to keep a portfolio of three tiers of resorts (HGVC, HVC, DRI) much into the future.  They will want to keep what is the most lucrative.


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## artringwald (Dec 12, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I was referring to buying a Diamond ownership resale, from someone who wants out.  There seems to be many Diamond owners who want to let go.  My curiosity is whether there would be a reason to take on that ownership. If I could book the properties I'm most interested in visiting (KBC and P@P) then it might be worth it.  But if Hilton is stirring the pot to force Diamond owners out, then it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
> 
> For the record, I would never, ever buy from the Developer.  I've spent way too many years on Tug to fall for that trap.
> 
> Dave


I'd wait until KBC fixes the erosion problem before I bought there. It might fall into the sea before they fix it.   

You couldn't go wrong buying a deeded week at P@P if you could get a good price. Before Covid and Hilton, they had money set aside for renovating the kitchens and bathrooms. They had to postpone it when Covid hit, and postponed it again when Hilton bought DRI. They gave us a tour of a renovated model unit and it really looked nice.


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## geist1223 (Dec 12, 2022)

Dave: If you are thinking of buying resell DRI Points make sure you buy them in the Collection you want to use. Remember one of the negatives of resell DRI Points is they can only be used to Book into that Collection. So if you are interested in Poipu or KBC make sure you buy Hawaiian Collection Points resell. Also resell DRI Points can not be used to Book Affiliates. There are only 3 DRI Resorts in the Hawaiian Collection located in Hawaii. The other Hawaiian Collection Resorts are located in the continuous 48. At one time Hilton seemed to indicate that resell accounts would not be eligible for HGV MAX.


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## DaveNV (Dec 13, 2022)

geist1223 said:


> Dave: If you are thinking of buying resell DRI Points make sure you buy them in the Collection you want to use. Remember one of the negatives of resell DRI Points is they can only be used to Book into that Collection. So if you are interested in Poipu or KBC make sure you buy Hawaiian Collection Points resell. Also resell DRI Points can not be used to Book Affiliates. There are only 3 DRI Resorts in the Hawaiian Collection located in Hawaii. The other Hawaiian Collection Resorts are located in the continuous 48. At one time Hilton seemed to indicate that resell accounts would not be eligible for HGV MAX.



Thanks, Tom.  So you're saying if I bought the Hawaii Collection from someone, since it's resale, I'd be limited to ONLY booking just that one Collection?  Is there a place I can learn more current information about the Hawaii Collection and its resorts?  KBC and P@P definitely interest me, but I'm wondering what else is part of that group. Googling it just now, I'm seeing a lot of listings with SMTN and similar, and I'm instantly suspect to anything they might say.

Dave


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## geist1223 (Dec 13, 2022)

There use to be a "Sticky" in the DRI Section that broke down most of the Collections.


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## Duh (Dec 13, 2022)

artringwald said:


> I'd wait until KBC fixes the erosion problem before I bought there. It might fall into the sea before they fix it.
> 
> You couldn't go wrong buying a deeded week at P@P if you could get a good price. Before Covid and Hilton, they had money set aside for renovating the kitchens and bathrooms. They had to postpone it when Covid hit, and postponed it again when Hilton bought DRI. They gave us a tour of a renovated model unit and it really looked nice.


They are currently painting it (KBC) this ugly beige color if that helps.


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## Duh (Dec 13, 2022)

geist1223 said:


> Dave: If you are thinking of buying resell DRI Points make sure you buy them in the Collection you want to use. Remember one of the negatives of resell DRI Points is they can only be used to Book into that Collection. So if you are interested in Poipu or KBC make sure you buy Hawaiian Collection Points resell. Also resell DRI Points can not be used to Book Affiliates. There are only 3 DRI Resorts in the Hawaiian Collection located in Hawaii. The other Hawaiian Collection Resorts are located in the continuous 48. At one time Hilton seemed to indicate that resell accounts would not be eligible for HGV MAX.


The other 8 resorts in the Hawaii Collection are pretty much West Coast resorts.

As for resales going into Max, I know that Hilton resales cannot go into Max. I haven't heard anything about Diamond resales converting to Max but of course, throw enough money at them and anything is possible.


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## Duh (Dec 13, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Thanks, Tom.  So you're saying if I bought the Hawaii Collection from someone, since it's resale, I'd be limited to ONLY booking just that one Collection?  Is there a place I can learn more current information about the Hawaii Collection and its resorts?  KBC and P@P definitely interest me, but I'm wondering what else is part of that group. Googling it just now, I'm seeing a lot of listings with SMTN and similar, and I'm instantly suspect to anything they might say.
> 
> Dave


Yes, resale points can only be used in that collection and come with no status (such as 50,000 resale points still equals a Standard member, not a Platinum member). The Modern in Honolulu is the third Hawaii Collection resort and I believe some resorts in Las Vegas, Sedona, and Lake Tahoe are dual homed (part US Collection and part Hawaii Collection).


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## DaveNV (Dec 13, 2022)

Duh said:


> Yes, resale points can only be used in that collection and come with no status (such as 50,000 resale points still equals a Standard member, not a Platinum member). The Modern in Honolulu is the third Hawaii Collection resort and I believe some resorts in Las Vegas, Sedona, and Lake Tahoe are dual homed (part US Collection and part Hawaii Collection).



Do you have access to a current complete list of the various Collections?  I've read back through the FAQ pages, and there was a certain amount of shuffling around of resorts within Collections over the years.  I understand the California Collection was merged into the Hawaii Collection a few years ago, but posts by DRI owners mention resorts I'm not seeing in the Collection lists I'm also researching.  The US Collections list seems to be a bit of a moving target, too - is it 24, 35, 48 or more resorts in that group? The different lists I'm seeing seem to have a varying list of resorts.

And of course, the big question from me is whether Hilton is going to remove any rebranded DRI locations from any Collections, or whether they're going to stay as they had been.  I'm trying to decide if DRI is good fit for me, but I'm having trouble getting to the bottom line of what is and isn't available.  I might be willing to take over a DRI ownership, but I am still seeking answers.  Is it too soon since the Hilton buyout?

Dave


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## Duh (Dec 13, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Do you have access to a current complete list of the various Collections?  I've read back through the FAQ pages, and there was a certain amount of shuffling around of resorts within Collections over the years.  I understand the California Collection was merged into the Hawaii Collection a few years ago, but posts by DRI owners mention resorts I'm not seeing in the Collection lists I'm also researching.  The US Collections list seems to be a bit of a moving target, too - is it 24, 35, 48 or more resorts in that group? The different lists I'm seeing seem to have a varying list of resorts.
> 
> And of course, the big question from me is whether Hilton is going to remove any rebranded DRI locations from any Collections, or whether they're going to stay as they had been.  I'm trying to decide if DRI is good fit for me, but I'm having trouble getting to the bottom line of what is and isn't available.  I might be willing to take over a DRI ownership, but I am still seeking answers.  Is it too soon since the Hilton buyout?
> 
> Dave


Not specifically for the Hawaii Collection as I own in the US Collection. US has approximately 55 resorts and is the best collection to own in as a resale (dirty point) owner but you can't go to Hawaii with dirty points in the US Collection (though you can go to St Martin).

Technically, the resorts are part of the trust and therefore can't be removed but as we all know, enough money going to enough lawyers can probably make anything happen. Rebranded resorts (about 6 have been done so far and the rest will be completed by 30 June 2026 except for about 15 which will not be rebranded to HVC and will be branded under Mosaic) are still available to Diamond Legacy owners (those who haven't upgraded to Max) and *should* stay available.


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## on the back 9 (Dec 13, 2022)

Duh said:


> Not specifically for the Hawaii Collection as I own in the US Collection. US has approximately 55 resorts and is the best collection to own in as a resale (dirty point) owner but you can't go to Hawaii with dirty points in the US Collection (though you can go to St Martin).
> 
> Technically, the resorts are part of the trust and therefore can't be removed but as we all know, enough money going to enough lawyers can probably make anything happen. Rebranded resorts (about 6 have been done so far and the rest will be completed by 30 June 2026 except for about 15 which will not be rebranded to HVC and will be branded under Mosaic) are still available to Diamond Legacy owners (those who haven't upgraded to Max) and *should* stay available.


Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea  A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS  ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"


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## on the back 9 (Dec 13, 2022)

on the back 9 said:


> Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea  A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
> Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS  ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"


FYI...The Hilton guy said...US COLLECTION..Has more value then the other's...whatever that means...I don't think Hilton realized that Diamond owners weren't going to just roll over...40K worth of timeshare should allow me to travel the way I want


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## magmue (Dec 14, 2022)

SMTN's list of Hawaii Collection properties looks correct to me:
Sedona Summit Resort
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort
San Luis Bay Inn
Tahoe Beach & Ski Club
Palm Canyon Resort and Spa
Ka'anapali Beach Club
The Point at Poipu
Cancun Resort Las Vegas
Polo Towers Villas
Cedar Breaks Lodge

But I should add that I have no personal experience with any of the DRI Collections. We bought a deeded resale P@P week earlier this year. I think we'll be happy using that week every year for quite some time. But IIRC, there is currently an internal DRI XC set up specifically for deeded week owners to exchange with each other. @NiteMaire owns Sedona and has been able to trade for Hawaii stays. Will HGV eliminate that type of XC to pressure deeded owners to "upgrade"? It's possible. But I can still use my week where I bought every year. And there's always II trades.


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## dayooper (Dec 14, 2022)

on the back 9 said:


> *Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity* ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea  A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
> Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS  ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"


That's the last place you should go for clarity. Salesman have 1 job and that's to sell more. They stretch the truth until it snaps to make that sale. 

As far as what we HGVC owners need to do to get into Max, we have to purchase a new deed. The minimum cost is reported is all over the place and many HGVC owners have not bought into the new membership. The value just isn't there for me right now.


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## geist1223 (Dec 14, 2022)

They have added the Modern Honolulu to DRI Hawaiian Collection.


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## youppi (Dec 14, 2022)

Hawaii Collection owns deeded weeks at these resorts:
Ka'anapali Beach Club, Maui, HI
The Point at Poipu, Kauai, HI
The Modern Honolulu, Oahu, HI (since 2021)
Sedona Summit (Sunset Suite section only), Sedona, AZ
Polo Tower Villas, Las Vegas, NV
Cancun Resort, Las Vegas, NV
Palm Canyon Resort, Palm Desert, CA
Cedar Breaks Lodge, Brian Head, UT

Hawaii Collection also owns some California Collection points. This is how Hawaii Collection gets 13 months booking at 12 resorts in place of 8. 12 resorts and not 13 because both collections own the same Sedona Summit Sunset Suite section.

California Collection owns deeded weeks at these resorts:
Sedona Summit (Sunset Suite section only), Sedona, AZ
San Luis Bay Inn, Avila Beach, CA
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, South Lake Tahoe, CA
Tahoe Beach and Ski Club, South Lake Tahoe, CA
Polo Tower Suite, Las Vegas, NV

From 2020 financial report of Hawaii Collection


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## tootoobusy (Dec 17, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Do you have access to a current complete list of the various Collections?  I've read back through the FAQ pages, and there was a certain amount of shuffling around of resorts within Collections over the years.  I understand the California Collection was merged into the Hawaii Collection a few years ago, but posts by DRI owners mention resorts I'm not seeing in the Collection lists I'm also researching.  The US Collections list seems to be a bit of a moving target, too - is it 24, 35, 48 or more resorts in that group? The different lists I'm seeing seem to have a varying list of resorts.
> 
> And of course, the big question from me is whether Hilton is going to remove any rebranded DRI locations from any Collections, or whether they're going to stay as they had been.  I'm trying to decide if DRI is good fit for me, but I'm having trouble getting to the bottom line of what is and isn't available.  I might be willing to take over a DRI ownership, but I am still seeking answers.  Is it too soon since the Hilton buyout?
> 
> Dave


I do not know anything about all this.  I was assuming only the name would change and the number of resorts would increase.  I currently own in Williamsburg, Virginia.  Does anyone know what is happening to the resorts in Virginia?


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## LEMONLEE (Dec 18, 2022)

I would recommend buying a deeded week at KBC or Point at Poipu versus buying into the Hawaii collection, as it's very clear what you get (a week at that resort) and that can't be taken away.  We bought a resale week at KBC about 20 years ago when it was still branded as an Embassy Suites and have resisted all efforts from Diamond's salespeople through the years to pay more to upgrade to points or to swap for a Collection.  Diamond does have a system called DEX for deeded week owners to exchange their week, but we have always used Interval in the past and have managed to get some nice exchanges through the years - our most recent exchange was for Westin Princeville this past January.  My husband has been pushing me to sell our KBC week as he prefers Marriott, so we might end up doing that if I can rouse myself to make the effort.  I know Hilton said KBC was being rebranded next week, so I am just curious about what that will entail, and wondering if I should wait to find out.


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## Fensterlips (Dec 29, 2022)

We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved.
A lot of the HGV properties are hotels rather than resorts so there are fewer suites and condos and more hotels though a percentage do have condo like amenities including a kitchenette and a common space.
They offered a typical “discount deal” if you want to buy up a tier. He made it pretty much mandatory if you really want to use future benefits and access to HGV Max properties and not just the legacy offering.
We are generally unhappy. We were one of the happy Diamond owners that used their points and enjoyed the benefits.
If you think your interests are being represented and you won’t get screwed now or in the future, consider yourself disabused of that notion.


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## singlemalt_18 (Dec 29, 2022)

Fensterlips said:


> We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved…


I believe the “weasel” was telling you the truth. In the new Max world, residual Diamond owners (there is no such thing as “legacy”) only have access to the Diamond Trust properties, and residual Hilton owners only have access to the original Hilton properties. Going forward, only Max has access to both.

In addition, as Hilton acquires new properties they will only be available in Max. Hilton is planning to acquire more properties, and they will be focused primarily on building, and aggressively renovating the U.S. portfolio over the next 2 years.  There will be little emphasis on international for the time being, because those properties have traditionally not been profitable from a sales perspective, as Europe is a different beast.

Despite all the negativity here and on the Hilton threads, I believe those willing to “buy in” to the new Max world will be quite pleased with what the future has in store. Hilton knows it’s not cheap, and they don’t intend it to be, but I believe they are committed to providing the value.


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## SmithOp (Dec 29, 2022)

Fensterlips said:


> We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved.
> A lot of the HGV properties are hotels rather than resorts so there are fewer suites and condos and more hotels though a percentage do have condo like amenities including a kitchenette and a common space.
> They offered a typical “discount deal” if you want to buy up a tier. He made it pretty much mandatory if you really want to use future benefits and access to HGV Max properties and not just the legacy offering.
> We are generally unhappy. We were one of the happy Diamond owners that used their points and enjoyed the benefits.
> If you think your interests are being represented and you won’t get screwed now or in the future, consider yourself disabused of that notion.



Its not a 'narrow benefit's if you can book at 13 months and Max owners have to wait until 6 months.  I doubt you will be fighting with HGV owners to book in the collection you own.
Don't believe the sales BS!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 30, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Oddly, it shows that Point at Poipu is a HGV property and Kaanapali Beach Club is a Diamond managed property.


Art - that's because The Point has been officially added to HGV, but KBC has not yet been.  Likely they want to make some upgrades at KBC before they attach the Hilton name to the property.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 30, 2022)

StrikingOcelot said:


> So what happens to the resorts keeping the Diamond name? Who will own them?


Keep in mind the difference between "ownership" and "management".  When Hilton bought Diamond, what they bought was the management operations and any unsold inventory that Diamond had title to.

In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust.  So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed.  The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 30, 2022)

on the back 9 said:


> hey did discontinue the club combo thing..which made it easier to use....was being told today that Diamond is still charging me for that service not being used


Some added info, as it applies to us.  

We have another TS that we added to Club Combo, and that Hilton has outplaced from the program.  Adding that unit to Club Combo was part and parcel for us reaching Gold Level membership in the Diamond Club.  Even though Hilton has outplaced our unit, they are not taking away our associated elite level membership.  So we are continuing to pay for the Gold Level membership, because we still qualify, even though our annual points allocation is now less than Gold level.  

We ca live with that change.  In reviewing our contract paperwork, I didn't see anything that committed Diamond to continue to accept our Club Combo property in the program.  Our contract was explicit, however, that joining Club Combo gave us Gold level membership.  If they had tried to remove our Gold membership, that would have been a material breach of contract, because Gold Level membership was a specific inducement for us in our purchase of added Diamond points at the time of the sale.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 30, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust. So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed. The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.


That also brings up another point  Just because Hilton has acquired Diamond and has created HGVMax, that does not mean that members of HGVMax have unfettered access to any Diamond property.  HGVMax member reservations are limited to the total number of units (or points) that are attached to HGVMax.  So, for example, if HGVMax has 100 weeks at Point at Poipu (or the points equivalent in the Hawaii trust), reservations made by HGVMax members cannot exceed those 100 weeks.  

That is a point that is conveniently ignored on the sales floor, where they lead people to think that there is unlimited availability at any of the resorts.  Yes, you can reserve at any resort, but the total number of reservations at any resort is limited by the inventory attached to HGVMax.


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## Dollie (Dec 31, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Keep in mind the difference between "ownership" and "management".  When Hilton bought Diamond, what they bought was the management operations and any unsold inventory that Diamond had title to.
> 
> In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust.  So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed.  The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.


Nicely put.  I've been trying to come up with this explanation every time I see someone say "Hilton/Diamond owns ..........".  

Your other explanation:


> That also brings up another point Just because Hilton has acquired Diamond and has created HGVMax, that does not mean that members of HGVMax have unfettered access to any Diamond property. HGVMax member reservations are limited to the total number of units (or points) that are attached to HGVMax. So, for example, if HGVMax has 100 weeks at Point at Poipu (or the points equivalent in the Hawaii trust), reservations made by HGVMax members cannot exceed those 100 weeks.
> 
> That is a point that is conveniently ignored on the sales floor, where they lead people to think that there is unlimited availability at any of the resorts. Yes, you can reserve at any resort, but the total number of reservations at any resort is limited by the inventory attached to HGVMax.


 Again, right on point.


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## goaliedave (Dec 31, 2022)

Most Diamond owners won't upgrade to Hilton. They can't ever take away your right to book the resorts in your collection, whether they rebrand them or not.


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## GT75 (Dec 31, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> In addition, as Hilton acquires new properties they will only be available in Max.


That is not from the HGV documentation.    To me, there isn’t currently any HGVMax only properties.    There are HVC (formerly known as DRI), HGVC and HC (Hilton Club).   HGVMax only allow crossbooking between HGVC and HVC.   So, I believe if new properties are added, it will be added to one of the 3.


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