# Did I just score with WM?



## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

My resale WM eBay purchase just closed, and today, (finally!), I was able to log in to the Worldmark website.  I've posted a few threads about this purchase, and you've been very helpful helping me figure out what I was buying into. The account has an August 1 anniversary date.

My understanding from the estoppel, and from what the eBay Seller told me about the account, was that I'd receive "full points" in the account, and that the former owner was keeping all points prior to the August 2017 anniversary date.  It's a 12K points account, so I expected to receive 12000 credits for 2018, as awarded August 2017, and the 12000 that would be awarded in August 2018, that could currently be borrowed.

However, today, when I finally got into the account I see this:





Am I reading this right?  From that status, it appears I also got the 12K 2016 credits, right? So I have an extra 12K credits I wasn't expecting to see.  So 36K instead of 24K?

Do Housekeeping tokens last as long as credits?  The one that expires 8/31/2019 would be from the 2017 year, right? And the one available to borrow would be for the August 2018 anniversary year, but doesn't show an expiration date because it hasn't been issued?  Am I reading this right?

I seem to have scored an extra 12K credits I wasn't expecting.  If so, <Happy Dance> from me. 

Dave, who is pretty happy, if this is as it appears.


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> My resale WM eBay purchase just closed, and today, (finally!), I was able to log in to the Worldmark website.  I've posted a few threads about this purchase, and you've been pretty helpful helping me figure out what I was buying into. The account has an August 1 anniversary date.
> 
> My understanding from the estoppel, and from what the eBay Seller told me about the account, was that I'd receive "full points" in the account, and that the former owner was keeping all points prior to the August 2017 anniversary date.  It's a 12K points account, so I expected to receive 12000 credits for 2018, as awarded August 2017, and the 12000 that would be awarded in August 2018, that could currently be borrowed.
> 
> ...



You have what is called a fully loaded contract.  You have 24K points from the last 2 years, and you can use 36K immediately through borrowing the 12K that is technically 2018 August points.   Each year's point can be used for 2 more years.  Yes, you do get 2016 points. 

Yes to all your questions regarding Housekeeping token.  The 2016 Housekeeping token has been used.   

I am not sure if you scored an extra or not, as it depends on your contract.  But this is a typical example of a fully loaded contract. 

I just sold my 10K contract with a January anniversary date and the owner received ~30K available on January, with 10K expiring at end of January and must be used to book before end of January.  In Feb the owner gets another 10K... technically the new owner gets 40K in Feb, 30K - 20K current, 10K to be borrowed, and 10K booked for a stay in 2018.  I think my deal was very sweet for the new owner.  I had 8 offers to buy my contract within a week or so.  I just wanted a no hassle sale.


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## Jan M. (Jan 26, 2018)

I think you aren't reading this correctly. If I'm right you got the points for 2017 and 2018 and can borrow the points from 2019.


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I think you aren't reading this correctly. If I'm right you got the points for 2017 and 2018 and can borrow the points from 2019.


OP has an August anniversary.  So he gets 2016 use year which expires in August 2018, 2017 use year which expires in August 2019, and he can borrow this year's points allotment.


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

Thanks.  It's the August 31, 2018 expiration that made me wonder what I was seeing.  I was told everything prior to the August 2017 anniversary had been used, or that I wasn't going to get it.  I got everything I expected from August 2017 on, plus the 12K credits from 2016.  

I'll take it.  With the exception of the housekeeping token, that's another week's vacation, more or less. So for my ~$1500 purchase price, including closing, I think I did okay. I just need to figure out how to use it. 

Dave


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Thanks.  It's the August 31, 2018 expiration that made me wonder what I was seeing.  I was told everything prior to the August 2017 anniversary had been used, or that I wasn't going to get it.  I got everything I expected from August 2017 on, plus the 12K credits from 2016.
> 
> I'll take it.  With the exception of the housekeeping token, that's another week's vacation, more or less. So for my ~$1500 purchase price, including closing, I think I did okay. I just need to figure out how to use it.
> 
> Dave


OK, you definitely did ok!  I think you said eBay?


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## JohnPaul (Jan 26, 2018)

Watch over the next few days.  Sometimes WM goes through a few steps in the point posting process.  When my 6000 new points got added (giving me 25,000 annual points) i had 25,000 current points for one day (which wasn't correct).  Also, when I get points from going to a presentation they typically first show up in current year then move to available to borrow the next day.


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> OK, you definitely did ok!  I think you said eBay?



Yes.  eBay auction last October.  Seller paid all closing costs, so my out of pocket was just the bid amount. I understand that was pretty good.  If I get the 24K credits I was expecting, that means I paid .064 cents per credit.  if I add in the other 12K I wasn't expecting, that lowers it to .043 cents per credit. Somebody said a normal sales price is something like 35 cents a credit?

Dave


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Yes.  eBay auction last October.  Seller paid all closing costs, so my out of pocket was just the bid amount. I understand that was pretty good.  If I get the 24K credits I was expecting, that means I paid .064 cents per credit.  if I add in the other 12K I wasn't expecting, that lowers it to .043 cents per credit. Somebody said a normal sales price is something like 35 cents a credit?
> 
> Dave


You do only get 24K credits.  The other 12K is available to borrow.

Say MF on 12K is (I don't have the chart in front of me) $900.  The seller has paid 1.5 years worth of that since the anniversary is in August and it closes in Jan.  That is about $1,350. You only paid $150 for the contract

I think you only paid 1.25 cents per point or so. Yes, normal is about 30 to 40 cents per point.

Was this listed by a reseller or an individual.  Whoever who sold this really wanted out!


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Was this listed by a reseller or an individual.  Whoever who sold this really wanted out!



It was a reseller, an outfit named Timeshare Cures.  I suspect they're a PCC.  But to their credit, they were quite responsive, and did things right, so all in all, I'm pleased.  I have no idea about the former owner.

I probably didn't explain myself right earlier.  I was only expecting 12K in the account, with another 12K to borrow.  I received (as of this morning) 24K in the account, with 12K to borrow.  That extra 12K from 2016 was a surprise.  If it stays there, I'll be happy.  WM supposedly transferred things into my name last week, so maybe the dust has already settled.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Watch over the next few days.  Sometimes WM goes through a few steps in the point posting process.  When my 6000 new points got added (giving me 25,000 annual points) i had 25,000 current points for one day (which wasn't correct).  Also, when I get points from going to a presentation they typically first show up in current year then move to available to borrow the next day.



Thanks.  I will watch things closely.  This all supposedly transferred last week, and I only found out this morning.  So maybe it's a done deal, and those are truly my credits to use. 

Dave


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## bizaro86 (Jan 26, 2018)

That is a great deal, but the 30 cents per point is only for permanent points, ie $1500/12000 = $0.125 per point. 

On the other hand, you could transfer your 24k one time use points to someone else and expect to get more than $1500 imho, which would make the account effectively free. That was a great deal - wish I had bought it!


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> That is a great deal, but the 30 cents per point is only for permanent points, ie $1500/12000 = $0.125 per point.
> 
> On the other hand, you could transfer your 24k one time use points to someone else and expect to get more than $1500 imho, which would make the account effectively free. That was a great deal - wish I had bought it!



Thanks.  As a purchase price, it felt pretty good.  Going forward, the annual MF for the 12K points ($246.58 per quarter) seems reasonable, too.  I figure if I can get a nice week in prime season in a nice resort for less than $1000 in MF, that's pretty good.  My Weeks timeshare MFs are higher than that, without the variety of availability. Add in exchange fees to get that availability, and my Weeks costs are even higher.

Ask me in a couple of years how it feels.  I hope by then I'll be more experienced, and be even happier.  Time will tell. 

Dave


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

Worldmark has been my favorite system, and still is.  It was a sad day when we decided to give up something and it ended up being Worldmark, as we don't have enough time to do all the travel that we want, even though we are retired.


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## sue1947 (Jan 26, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I think you aren't reading this correctly. If I'm right you got the points for 2017 and 2018 and can borrow the points from 2019.



Wrong.  This advise might work for Wyndham but the OP purchased a Worldmark account.  They aren't the same.   
Sue


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## izzymail (Jan 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> You have what is called a fully loaded contract.  You have 24K points from the last 2 years, and you can use 36K immediately through borrowing the 12K that is technically 2018 August points.   Each year's point can be used for 2 more years.  Yes, you do get 2016 points.
> 
> Yes to all your questions regarding Housekeeping token.  The 2016 Housekeeping token has been used.
> 
> ...


How much did you get for this one?


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

izzymail said:


> How much did you get for this one?


I sold mine for $3,400, with buyer paying for Worldmark transfer fee of $299.  When you consider that 3 years of MF/use is available, the net of that will bring the price to about $0.11 per point, on a stripped account.


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## Jan M. (Jan 26, 2018)

sue1947 said:


> Wrong.  This advise might work for Wyndham but the OP purchased a Worldmark account.  They aren't the same.
> Sue








Please explain so those of us trying to learn more about Worldmark can understand this chart better.

Are Worldmark points good for 2 years unlike Wyndham points which are good for one year unless you pay to deposit them in a future use year? So the points that expire on August 31, 2018 are from August 31, 2016-August 31, 2017, not 2017-2018 and the points that expire on August 31, 2019 are from 2017-2018 not 2018-2019? The points that are available to borrow would be from which use year, August 2018-2019 or August 2019-2020?

I thought from looking at the chart and because of what it says about the expiration dates for housekeeping credits not appearing until they have been awarded that it meant that Dave wouldn't see an expiration date for the housekeeping credit that can be borrowed until August 2018 because they are August 2018-2019 points points. The asterisk indicates the housekeeping credit available to borrow is on points that haven't actually been awarded yet. If the points were from 2016 and 2017 wouldn't there be 2 available housekeeping credits and another one available to borrow for a total of 3? Could the previous owner have used the housekeeping credit from 2016-2017 but not the points or did the HC from 2016-2017 not transfer with the points?

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## thegortons (Jan 26, 2018)

An expiration date of August 31, 2018 means the points were awarded on August 1, 2016.  Worldmark points are good for 2 years and 1 month.


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Please explain so those of us trying to learn more about Worldmark can understand this chart better.
> 
> Are Worldmark points good for 2 years unlike Wyndham points which are good for one year unless you pay to deposit them in a future use year? So the points that expire on August 31, 2018 are from August 31, 2016-August 31, 2017, not 2017-2018 and the points that expire on August 31, 2019 are from 2017-2018 not 2018-2019? The points that are available to borrow would be from which use year, August 2018-2019 or August 2019-2020?
> 
> ...



As explained by @thegortons "An expiration date of August 31, 2018 means the points were awarded on August 1, 2016. Worldmark points are good for 2 years and 1 month."

Regarding housekeeping credit for 2016 anniversary/use year, the most likely reason for not having a housekeeping credit is that the owner had borrowed against 2016 housekeeping credit when they made 2015 points reservations.


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2018)

This is great.  I understood ^^^ this before reading the explanation.  This stuff is sinking in!  

Can you folks answer an odd question for me?  I've written this question three times, and I'm still not sure I'm asking it right: 

The expiration date of credits is when they need to be *booked by*, not when they have to be *used by,* right?  So these August 31, 2018 expiring credits could be used the day before to book something in September 2019, right?

Dave


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> This is great.  I understood ^^^ this before reading the explanation.  This stuff is sinking in!
> 
> Can you folks answer an odd question for me?  I've written this question three times, and I'm still not sure I'm asking it right:
> 
> ...


Yes.  Need to be booked by August 2018 for the 2016 points, and need to be used by August 2019.


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## bizaro86 (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> This is great.  I understood ^^^ this before reading the explanation.  This stuff is sinking in!
> 
> Can you folks answer an odd question for me?  I've written this question three times, and I'm still not sure I'm asking it right:
> 
> ...



Correct. You can also change the booking around after the expiration date of the credits, but you should call in if you do that so they don't disappear on you.


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## izzymail (Jan 26, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> I sold mine for $3,400, with buyer paying for Worldmark transfer fee of $299.  When you consider that 3 years of MF/use is available, the net of that will bring the price to about $0.11 per point, on a stripped account.


OK, that's in the ballpark of what I paid for mine back in September (transfer just went through). I feel a little better...I was feeling pretty bad after hearing about this loaded account for $1500....


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## geist1223 (Jan 26, 2018)

Worldmark Points are good for Booking for 2 years + 1 Month minus a day. As are HKC. So as people have said Points "Awarded" on August 1, 2017 must be used for a Booking by August 31, 2019. But you can Book out 13 months. So Points awarded on August 1, 2017 could be used on August 31, 2019 for a Booking that starts on August 31, 2020.

Points and HKC rollover automatically. The Booking system is designed to use Points and HKC due to expire first.


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## breezez (Jan 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> My resale WM eBay purchase just closed, and today, (finally!), I was able to log in to the Worldmark website.  I've posted a few threads about this purchase, and you've been pretty helpful helping me figure out what I was buying into. The account has an August 1 anniversary date.
> 
> My understanding from the estoppel, and from what the eBay Seller told me about the account, was that I'd receive "full points" in the account, and that the former owner was keeping all points prior to the August 2017 anniversary date.  It's a 12K points account, so I expected to receive 12000 credits for 2018, as awarded August 2017, and the 12000 that would be awarded in August 2018, that could currently be borrowed.
> 
> ...



Check reservations too.   I bought one that had 17K in Points in reservations I was able to repurpose too.


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## DaveNV (Jan 27, 2018)

Got it.  Thanks.  Seems easy, now that you say it like that, but the logic was escaping me.  And the WM website doesn't say, anywhere that I could find. 

Dave


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## VacationForever (Jan 27, 2018)

breezez said:


> Check reservations too.   I bought one that had 17K in Points in reservations I was able to repurpose too.


Good point. When I bought mine fully loaded, after closing I found another 6,700 points "parked" at a reservation, which I needed to call to change it to a different location and date and not lose it by rebooking online.


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## DaveNV (Jan 27, 2018)

breezez said:


> Check reservations too.   I bought one that had 17K in Points in reservations I was able to repurpose too.



Nothing extra hiding there.  Nice idea, though. 

I did see the reservation history, though, clear back to 2006. The previous owner liked staying in the same places over and over. Kind of interesting.

Dave


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## bizaro86 (Jan 27, 2018)

I bet that's common. The previous owner of my account to stayed the same 3 places all the time.

One of which was Maui over Christmas two out of every three years. 

Interestingly, the account transferred to me with 4 level one wait lists for Maui the next Christmas. I only found out about when the system rejected my own wait list request.


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