# The Death of Las Vegas



## kjd (Jun 13, 2010)

Don't know if you would agree with this article but after being in Las Vegas two weeks ago it does have some validity.  We were there on Memorial Day weekend and LV was quite busy.  However, once the weekend was over it wasn't very busy.  This article made me think that LV is in deep trouble.




http://seekingalpha.com/article/209587-the-death-of-las-vegas?source=article_sb_popular


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## Kona Lovers (Jun 13, 2010)

I met a couple in Hawaii vacationing from Las Vegas who told of quite a recession, not knowing their own future there.  The guy said the Indian casinos in other states were a definite factor, but the general economy suffered somewhat like in this article.  The article may be a bit exaggerated on some points, but the fact is Las Vegas is hurting.  

Marty


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## dougp26364 (Jun 13, 2010)

The problem with Las Vegas is the major casino players, MGM and Harrah's, mortgaged their back sides betting on bigger is better. Opps. They should have stuck with paid-off and working.

To re-invent themselves, the knocked down the older paid for casino's like the Stardust, Westward Ho and HI Boardwalk, mortgaged everything else to the hilt and then built monsters that they'll be paying on until the end of time. They might have been all right but they couldn't read the tea leaves and the economic downturn hit at just the right time to drive a dagger through their heart. 

Vegas will survive and it will once again re-invent itself. This might end up being a good thing for the consumer as MGM and Harrah's may find they need to sell off some of their assests to remain afloat. Maybe we can get back to several smaller owners in Vegas rather than two major owners controling nearly all the casino's. It might bring back some compitition to the strip.


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## John Cummings (Jun 14, 2010)

I read the same article a few days ago. I considered posting it and then decided not to. I pretty well agree with most of the article.

It is not just the strip properties being affected but the local casinos are also suffering from the loss of jobs and foreclosures in Las Vegas. I don't see Las Vegas going out of business but I don't see it returning to the glory days of a few years ago. MGM and Harrah's do have their debt problems but I believe they will survive and not much will change on the strip. Hoping that the days of cheap room rates and food will return is just wishful thinking. The days of the casino subsidizing the hotel and restaurants was over back in the 90's and will not return. Room rates in Las Vegas are still cheap compared to comparable properties in other cities. The California casinos have siphoned off a lot of the clients from California, including myself.


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## pianodinosaur (Jun 14, 2010)

kjd said:


> Don't know if you would agree with this article but after being in Las Vegas two weeks ago it does have some validity.  We were there on Memorial Day weekend and LV was quite busy.  However, once the weekend was over it wasn't very busy.  This article made me think that LV is in deep trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





This was an interesting article but it neglects the real cause behind the Las Vegas slump. I hope this is not too political for TUG but the Casino Workers Union got exactly what they campaigned and voted for.


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## JeffW (Jun 14, 2010)

As someone who goes to Las Vegas annually (twice last year), +I have some mixed feelings on this article.  On the one hand, there's no doubt that the economic situation of the country has, at the least, put some casino companies on shaky ground.  While there were a number of larger projects (Echelon,  Fountainbleu) that halted, there were also larger ones (City Center, Westgate PH Towers) that continued thru to completion. To the best of my knowledge, I'm not aware of any casinos which have closed.  I've read the real estate articles (this year: 2/3 of houses for sale owe more than worth; last year: 1/2 of houses for sale were empty).  I don't think I'd want to move to Las Vegas, work in Las Vegas, or invest in any of the casion companies.

That being said, from a tourist perspective, Vegas is still a good town to go to.  When we went this past April, most of the shows we went to (from Jersey Boys at Palazza to Society of Seven at Gold Coast) were very full (I can't comment on The Osmond Brothers show, which was sold out, and we didn't get into).  I don't remember buffets or restaurants seeming to be empty.   While we stayed at Mandalay Bay last August for $129/nt, including B/L/D buffet daily for two, the pool started to fill up at 9am, and there was no discount on our $168/pp tickets to Lion King.  The Orleans was also crowded, though we were there 2 nights for free (promotion), and $25/night the other nights (plus $5/night resort fee).  I was most upset about seeing Purple Reign (Prince impersonator group), which used to be $10 (free with coupon) at House of Blues Mandalay Bay, to  $27/ticket at Hooters Casino.

I was in Atlantic City last week.  We paid $115/nt at Trump Taj (midweek discounted), $21 for dinner ($25 for all day pass), got a comp'ed night at the Bellagio, paid $30/person for their buffet, and saw absolutely no entertainment, because they don't offer any other than on the weekend.  We were able to drive to AC, but for those that had to fly, no way people are going to pay to fly to AC and stay there, vs fly and stay in LV (doesn't help that this week, Spirit, the main carrier into AC, is on strike).

If there's two things Las Vegas can do, it's reinvent itself, and yield management.  There's still many people that want to come vacation in Las Vegas.  It's just going to take a sharper pencil to figure out how to make a living providing it.

Jeff


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## RedDogSD (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree Jeff.  The death of Vegas has been a bit over simplified.  I was there 3 weeks ago.  The strip was crowded.  Our Resort was full.  We left Vegas to go into Henderson and the restaurants there were full also.  We did not gamble on this trip, but we did gamble on a trip in April and the casinos had plenty of people.  The lines for many things were large.  

It is still the prime getaway for people from Southern California and we love to go there.  If it gets cheaper and cheaper, fine with me.


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## JeffW (Jun 14, 2010)

Personally as a traveller, I think the biggest obstacle Las Vegas faces now is airfare costs.  There's no doubt they can discount rooms, offer all day buffet passes, and quality entertainment.  However most airlines have cut service to LAS in the past years, which tends to drive the cost up.  I remember years (maybe a decade now) National airlines was formed (I believe casino companies) specifically to offer discounted airfare to Las Vegas from major cities).  While there's a lot of people that can/will drive to Las Vegas, I still think the majority fly in.  All the casino discounts will mean little if it requires a $500/person airfare to get there.

Jeff


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## davemy (Jun 14, 2010)

*Las Vegas Airfare*

I Agree on the Airfare costs, I've been watching southwest for 3 months and there are no specials. High compared to years past.


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## Art4th (Jun 15, 2010)

JeffW said:


> I was in Atlantic City last week.....got a comp'ed night at the Bellagio



They moved Bellagio to Atlantic City? That should help AC's tourist business :rofl:

(Borgata)


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## JeffW (Jun 15, 2010)

Funny!  Now that I've been corrected, I meant to say Borgata 

Jeff


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## pianodinosaur (Jun 15, 2010)

We will be going to Las Vegas in July for a seminar at the Westin Casuarina.  Las Vegas remains one of the best places for a business meeting despite what the Casino Workers Union has helped create.


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## Fern Modena (Jun 15, 2010)

What do you have against the casino workers?  Is it just them, or does it include culinary, which is an even bigger union?

Fern


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## Karen G (Jun 15, 2010)

JeffW said:


> I don't think I'd want to move to Las Vegas, work in Las Vegas, or invest in any of the casion companies.


But, it is a phenomenal place to retire--especially now when there are so many great deals on real estate.

We've found it to be the perfect place to be retired because the weather is great most of the year, there are abundant outdoor activities within close proximity, the entertainment choices are unmatched anywhere else in the country, and you can drive to many great destinations within just a few hours from the California beaches to the Grand Canyon and several other national parks, and there is no state income tax.


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## DaveNV (Jun 15, 2010)

Karen G said:


> But, it is a phenomenal place to retire--especially now when there are so many great deals on real estate.
> 
> We've found it to be the perfect place to be retired because the weather is great most of the year, there are abundant outdoor activities within close proximity, the entertainment choices are unmatched anywhere else in the country, and you can drive to many great destinations within just a few hours from the California beaches to the Grand Canyon and several other national parks, and there is no state income tax.




Funny you should mention that.  I'm currently in negotiations with a real estate agent in LV for just that purpose - I'm looking to find a great place to retire.  Much as I love the scenery here in Washington state on a blue-sky sunny day, those days are just too few and far between.  (It's raining and barely 52 degrees as I type this on June 15, and it's after 12 noon.  Where the heck is Summer???)  If I can find the right LV house in the right neighborhood at the right price, Karen and Fern and Scoop are going to have a new neighbor.   

Dave


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## Karen G (Jun 15, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> Much as I love the scenery here in Washington state on a blue-sky sunny day, those days are just too few and far between.


That's exactly what prompted us to move here, too. That's very cool that you are planning to move here. I think you'll like it!


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## RedDogSD (Jun 15, 2010)

I do like Henderson.....and if you can move there now and get a good price on a house, good for you.  I do find it a tad colder than other deserts though.  Scottsdale and Palm Springs never go as cold as Vegas though.  You guys are pretty high up.


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## Karen G (Jun 15, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> I do like Henderson.....and if you can move there now and get a good price on a house, good for you.  I do find it a tad colder than other deserts though.  Scottsdale and Palm Springs never go as cold as Vegas though.  You guys are pretty high up.


Yes, we are the "high desert" here and it does get colder in the winter. It has snowed a few times in the three years we've been here, but the sunshine is great! I think it gets hotter in Scottsdale and Palm Springs, but there's not a lot of difference between 115 & 120, I guess.  And for most of the year, it's not that hot anyway.


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## DaveNV (Jun 15, 2010)

Karen G said:


> Yes, we are the "high desert" here and it does get colder in the winter. It has snowed a few times in the three years we've been here, but the sunshine is great! I think it gets hotter in Scottsdale and Palm Springs, but there's not a lot of difference between 115 & 120, I guess.  And for most of the year, it's not that hot anyway.



And one of the biggest reasons:  Nevada has no state income tax.  Hard to argue with that.

Dave


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## RedDogSD (Jun 15, 2010)

How are the other taxes though?  Some places have no income tax, but super high Property and Sales taxes to offset them.  You have to look at the whole picture.  I personally want to live on the border between Oregon and Washington because one of them has no income tax and one of them has no sales tax.  So, live in one, consume in the other.


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## Karen G (Jun 15, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> How are the other taxes though?


This is tax information from the City of Henderson  relocation guide.
"Residents do not pay personal income tax, corporate tax, inheritance tax, estate and/or gift tax, and the property taxes are low. According to Money Magazine, "Nevada has the eighth lowest tax burden as a percent of income in the nation."

The Fiscal Year 2009 City property tax rate for Henderson will remain constant at $.7108 per $100 in assessed valuation. The City has maintained the same property tax rate for the past seventeen years and continues to have one of the lowest rates in the Las Vegas Metropolitan area, as well as the State of Nevada. Nevada has no state income tax. The state sales tax is currently 8.10%."


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## DaveNV (Jun 15, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> How are the other taxes though?  Some places have no income tax, but super high Property and Sales taxes to offset them.  You have to look at the whole picture.  I personally want to live on the border between Oregon and Washington because one of them has no income tax and one of them has no sales tax.  So, live in one, consume in the other.




Karen and Fern could address the first one better than I can.  As to the Oregon/Washington thing, a lot of folks are doing that - they live in Vancouver, Washington, but shop in Portland, Oregon.  The no-salestax thing works well for smaller items, but for major purchases, they usually require proof of an Oregon address to be tax-free.  My parents lived in Oregon for over 30 years, and I was never allowed to buy a car there and register it in Washington without paying Washington sales taxes on it.

Dave


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## RedDogSD (Jun 15, 2010)

Too bad Dave.  Hey, I wonder if you could have bought a car together (co-owners) so that your name was on the Title and Loan Documents (so you could pay the loan) and their name was on the Title so that would not have to charge the Sales Tax.  They would have to trust you, but if they did, would that work?


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## DaveNV (Jun 15, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Too bad Dave.  Hey, I wonder if you could have bought a car together (co-owners) so that your name was on the Title and Loan Documents (so you could pay the loan) and their name was on the Title so that would not have to charge the Sales Tax.  They would have to trust you, but if they did, would that work?




Possibly. But with my Dad?  No way.  He was decidedly "old school" and wouldn't have dreamt of trying to buck the system.  When I was a young and very poor Navy sailor, the one time I asked about getting a car and registering it there, he said, "Why, are you moving here?"  Umm, uh, er...  No, Dad.  "Well then, you have your answer, don't you?"

Bless his heart.  He was totally by the book.   

Dave


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## RedDogSD (Jun 15, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your Dad.  I guess that PO Boxes do not work either.


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## DaveNV (Jun 15, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Sorry to hear about your Dad.  I guess that PO Boxes do not work either.



Nope.  Street addresses only.  There's a reason Oregon is such a cool place to be sometimes.  Same for Washington.  I just wish the weather was better, which is why I'm thinking of moving to Las Vegas.  

I'm hoping the economy there settles down, too, so the city recovers.  I'm astounded at how many real estate listings I'm seeing that are short sales, are already in foreclosure, or are bank-owned.

Dave


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## John Cummings (Jun 16, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> How are the other taxes though?  Some places have no income tax, but super high Property and Sales taxes to offset them.  You have to look at the whole picture.  I personally want to live on the border between Oregon and Washington because one of them has no income tax and one of them has no sales tax.  So, live in one, consume in the other.



Vancouver, Washington would be good for you except for the weather. I lived in the Portland area. Vancouver, Washington not only has no state income tax but the property tax is much lower than Oregon. You can cross the river and shop in Portland.


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## pianodinosaur (Jun 16, 2010)

Fern Modena said:


> What do you have against the casino workers?  Is it just them, or does it include culinary, which is an even bigger union?
> 
> Fern



I cannot answer that question without getting very political.   If you wish to know my reasons, send me a private message on TUG and I will let you know.  For this forum I can say that both unions are now hoist by their own petard.


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## JeffW (Jun 16, 2010)

I'll take a guess that like municipal unionized workers, perhaps school teachers, when times were good (as they were ~5+ yrs ago), casino workers probably got pretty decent benefit packages.  However, when times are not as good now, it's not nearly as easy to remove those benefits once they already have them.  

Jeff


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## yeereid (Jun 17, 2010)

kjd said:


> Don't know if you would agree with this article but after being in Las Vegas two weeks ago it does have some validity.  We were there on Memorial Day weekend and LV was quite busy.  However, once the weekend was over it wasn't very busy.  This article made me think that LV is in deep trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While I agree that Las Vegas was hit hard with the economy, especially for new construction and real estate, I just returned tonight from a 4 day/3 night trip and there were very little signs of a recession!  I checked in on Sunday, so I was not there for the typical busy weekend (w always avoid the weekends).  We were at Encore and while we got a very good rate, the hotel was at 99% occupancy!  We dined at top restaurants and while we didn't need to make reservations far in advance, the restaurants were close to full.  We saw the Cirque du Soliel show, KA, and it was a practically full.  Many of the other big shows were sold out.  My friend who manages a high end designer boutique at Encore said that business is good at both her store and the other strip locations at Wynn and Bellagio.  Many restaurants charge upwards of $125pp for their set menus WITHOUT alcohol and people are dining there!  I think someone forgot to tell Vegas restaurants that people are price sensitive because obviously they can still get away with charging an arm and a leg for a meal!


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## John Cummings (Jun 17, 2010)

yeereid said:


> While I agree that Las Vegas was hit hard with the economy, especially for new construction and real estate, I just returned tonight from a 4 day/3 night trip and there were very little signs of a recession!  I checked in on Sunday, so I was not there for the typical busy weekend (w always avoid the weekends).  We were at Encore and while we got a very good rate, the hotel was at 99% occupancy!  We dined at top restaurants and while we didn't need to make reservations far in advance, the restaurants were close to full.  We saw the Cirque du Soliel show, KA, and it was a practically full.  Many of the other big shows were sold out.  My friend who manages a high end designer boutique at Encore said that business is good at both her store and the other strip locations at Wynn and Bellagio.  Many restaurants charge upwards of $125pp for their set menus WITHOUT alcohol and people are dining there!  I think someone forgot to tell Vegas restaurants that people are price sensitive because obviously they can still get away with charging an arm and a leg for a meal!



This doesn't surprise me as the upper tier properties and restaurants will not be affected nearly as much by economic conditions as the lower tier ones. Their clientèle is generally more affluent. It was like that when we were at Caesar's Palace last November. We stayed in the Augustus Tower which is the most upscale tower and it was sold out whereas the less upscale towers were not. The Bette Midler show was also sold out. However, there is no question that revenue in general is down in Las Vegas and gaming revenue especially. Wynn just announced that they were laying off employees. They had taken pay cuts earlier but the employees voted that they would rather have layoffs than pay cuts.


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## taffy19 (Jun 17, 2010)

Karen G said:


> This is tax information from the City of Henderson relocation guide.
> "Residents do not pay personal income tax, corporate tax, inheritance tax, estate and/or gift tax, and the property taxes are low. According to Money Magazine, "Nevada has the eighth lowest tax burden as a percent of income in the nation."
> 
> The Fiscal Year 2009 City property tax rate for Henderson will remain constant at $.7108 per $100 in assessed valuation. The City has maintained the same property tax rate for the past seventeen years and continues to have one of the lowest rates in the Las Vegas Metropolitan area, as well as the State of Nevada. Nevada has no state income tax. The state sales tax is currently 8.10%."


This should turn your real estate around after next year. 

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/10-affordable-places-to-retire.html


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## Rose Pink (Jun 17, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> ...As to the Oregon/Washington thing, a lot of folks are doing that - they live in Vancouver, Washington, but shop in Portland, Oregon. The no-salestax thing works well for smaller items, but for major purchases, they usually require proof of an Oregon address to be tax-free. ...Dave


My son is doing just that.  Housing is less expensive in Vancouver but he works in Portland.  Depending on the time of day and road construction, the commute can be unpleasant or not (just like any other city).  He is also looking into carpool and public transport options.  Many people do this.

As for the sales tax thing--if you are a resident of Oregon (no sales tax) you can also shop in Vancouver, WA and not pay the Washington sales tax.   If an Oregonian shops in any other state (say, neighboring California or Idaho), he would pay that state's sales tax but not in Vancouver, WA.  I don't think that is right but that is how it is.  Vancouver wants Oregonians to shop there--I think it is to keep jobs in Washington, so they are willing to forgo the sales tax to get the Oregonians to shop in Washington.

As for living in one state with no state income tax but shopping across the river to avoid paying sales tax, I ask who is going to pay for infrastructure, police, fire, schools?  The money has got to come from somewhere.


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## SamTHorn (Jun 17, 2010)

Everyone that I've talked to would not go back to LV. They said they'd rather go elsewhere.


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## Karen G (Jun 17, 2010)

SamTHorn said:


> Everyone that I've talked to would not go back to LV. They said they'd rather go elsewhere.


Whom have you talked to and what were the reasons?


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## Art4th (Jun 17, 2010)

SamTHorn said:


> Everyone that I've talked to would not go back to LV. They said they'd rather go elsewhere.



They obviously don't like fun, great food and great entertainment.


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## MollyBuzz (Jun 17, 2010)

Art4th said:


> They obviously don't like fun, great food and great entertainment.



I went to Vegas for the first time in January (took me 40 years to get there) and I not only want to go back, I want to go back frequently and regularly!


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## RedDogSD (Jun 18, 2010)

The only part of Vegas that just makes you sick is when you walk down the Strip and there are 300 people standing there trying to hand you cards for "S*X workers.  We are not thrilled with 100,000 smokers in tight spaces either.  So, we solve this by staying down the strip.  Otherwise, great food, great entertainment, best hospitality in the world and so much to see and do.


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## DaveNV (Jun 18, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> The only part of Vegas that just makes you sick is when you walk down the Strip and there are 300 people standing there trying to hand you cards for "S*X workers.  We are not thrilled with 100,000 smokers in tight spaces either.  So, we solve this by staying down the strip.  Otherwise, great food, great entertainment, best hospitality in the world and so much to see and do.



I must have missed this part of the Strip.  The last two times I was there, walking from the Venetian/Wynn area to the Fashion Square Mall (or whatever it's called) I saw a lot of people handing out cards, but none were of what I would consider "adult" in nature.  No nekkid pictures, or anything.  Dang!     (Not that I necessarily wanted to see that kind of thing, but I'd read so much about it, I was expecting it.  All I got was discount seat offers for the lesser shows.)

Far worse was nighttime at the Fremont Street Experience.  I was a sailor for 20 years, and don't think I was ever propositioned so many times in such a short distance anywhere I've ever been.  I must have arrived just after the bus from the Bunny Ranch dropped them off, or something. It was amazing.  

Dave


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## RedDogSD (Jun 18, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> I must have missed this part of the Strip.  The last two times I was there, walking from the Venetian/Wynn area to the Fashion Square Mall (or whatever it's called) I saw a lot of people handing out cards, but none were of what I would consider "adult" in nature.  No nekkid pictures, or anything.  Dang!     (Not that I necessarily wanted to see that kind of thing, but I'd read so much about it, I was expecting it.  All I got was discount seat offers for the lesser shows.)
> 
> Far worse was nighttime at the Fremont Street Experience.  I was a sailor for 20 years, and don't think I was ever propositioned so many times in such a short distance anywhere I've ever been.  I must have arrived just after the bus from the Bunny Ranch dropped them off, or something. It was amazing.
> 
> Dave



Well, start at the Planet Hollywood and head North on the Strip towards Paris, Bally's, etc and you will get them.  Not that you want them, but since you wanted to see them.  You don't have to take them.  Just look on the ground.


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## Karen G (Jun 18, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> The only part of Vegas that just makes you sick is when you walk down the Strip and there are 300 people standing there trying to hand you cards for "S*X workers.





RedDogSD said:


> You don't have to take them.  Just look on the ground.


I dislike this aspect of  the Strip, too, and the cards thrown on the ground really make the area look very messy. But, one night some friends at our church went down there and brought some cookies to give to the people handing out the cards as just a way to do a random act of kindness without judging. One in the group speaks Spanish so she engaged some of them in conversation. Several of them expressed their disgust in what they are doing, also, but because they needed the income so badly, they took the job of handing out the cards. I'm guessing they are illegal aliens.

It would certainly enhance the Strip if this card distribution mess was stopped.


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## DaveNV (Jun 18, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Well, start at the Planet Hollywood and head North on the Strip towards Paris, Bally's, etc and you will get them.  Not that you want them, but since you wanted to see them.  You don't have to take them.  Just look on the ground.



I'll be there again next week, so will check.  I'm just surprised with the "family" nature Las Vegas is promoting so heavily that this sort of thing is still going on.  I agree with Karen - it should be stopped.

Dave


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## RedDogSD (Jun 18, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> I'll be there again next week, so will check.  I'm just surprised with the "family" nature Las Vegas is promoting so heavily that this sort of thing is still going on.  I agree with Karen - it should be stopped.
> 
> Dave



Oh, Vegas gave up on the "Family" thing years ago.  The new saying for Vegas is "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" which is basically them telling you that you can get a bunch of hookers and blow and gamble away your entire life savings, and no one will ever know.  Yeah right.  

It can't be stopped.  The strip clubs, escort services and all of the other shady things that go on in Vegas are are big sources of revenue for the state.  Remember, no income tax.  They have to let those things go on.


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## Karen G (Jun 18, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> The strip clubs, escort services and all of the other shady things that go on in Vegas are the only sources of revenue for the state.


Not so. There are many legitimate businesses in the state.


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## Fern Modena (Jun 18, 2010)

To amplify on what Karen says, just to name a few, how about Amazon.com, Zappos, Ethel M, Cashman Equipment, and Ocean Spray?  There are many more, of course, and I'm deliberately excluding the tourist and hospitality sectors.


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## RedDogSD (Jun 18, 2010)

Sorry Karen and Fern,

I was not trying to impune Nevada.  I know that there are many great businesses out there.  A couple of companies that I used to work with have re-located divisions out there.  I just meant that the state still makes a lot of money on the shady businesses and cannot afford to get rid of them.  Nevada is fiscally in bad shape right now (so are California and Arizona so I am not picking on them) and getting rid of revenue would not be a good idea.


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## Rose Pink (Jun 18, 2010)

Karen G said:


> I dislike this aspect of the Strip, too, and the cards thrown on the ground really make the area look very messy. But, one night some friends at our church went down there and brought some cookies to give to the people handing out the cards as just a way to do a random act of kindness without judging. One in the group speaks Spanish so she engaged some of them in conversation. *Several of them expressed their disgust in what they are doing, also, but because they needed the income so badly, they took the job of handing out the cards. I'm guessing they are illegal aliens.*
> 
> It would certainly enhance the Strip if this card distribution mess was stopped.


One of the most jarring memories in my head is that of a little old Hispanic woman dressed like she was going to church, handbag slung over her arm, handing out porn cards.  I felt so sorry for her.  I wondered if she had been promised a good job in Las Vegas only to end up being taken advantage of by the porn industry.  It was so sad.


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## SunSand (Jun 18, 2010)

Las Vegas has porn slapper's, if you don't like it, then you can take on the ACLU.  It is a price for freedom.  Yes, Las Vegas has sexually suggestive billboards, gambling, and drinking, and quite frankly Iowa does too.  Where's all the hate for Iowa?


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 18, 2010)

Karen G said:


> This is tax information from the City of Henderson  relocation guide.
> "Residents do not pay personal income tax, corporate tax, inheritance tax, estate and/or gift tax, and the property taxes are low. According to Money Magazine, "Nevada has the eighth lowest tax burden as a percent of income in the nation."
> 
> The Fiscal Year 2009 City property tax rate for Henderson will remain constant at $.7108 per $100 in assessed valuation. The City has maintained the same property tax rate for the past seventeen years and continues to have one of the lowest rates in the Las Vegas Metropolitan area, as well as the State of Nevada. Nevada has no state income tax. The state sales tax is currently 8.10%."



What a refreshing change from the Socialist Republic of California, where Forbes Magazine recently ranked our state as having the highest tax burden of all--including New York and Taxachusetts.


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## MuranoJo (Jun 19, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Sorry Karen and Fern,
> 
> Nevada is fiscally in bad shape right now (so are California and Arizona so I am not picking on them) and getting rid of revenue would not be a good idea.



Just heard tonight NV has the highest unemployment rate in the U.S.
If I had to feed my starving family and keep a roof over our heads, I'd probably do about anything within the law and within my personal moral parameters to keep us going.

Don't want to get off topic too much here, but I know of unemployed parents and their high-school kids sitting at home all day on video games and not interested in my offers to hire them to do some work around here.


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> I must have missed this part of the Strip.  The last two times I was there, walking from the Venetian/Wynn area to the Fashion Square Mall (or whatever it's called) I saw a lot of people handing out cards, but none were of what I would consider "adult" in nature.  No nekkid pictures, or anything.  Dang!     (Not that I necessarily wanted to see that kind of thing, but I'd read so much about it, I was expecting it.  All I got was discount seat offers for the lesser shows.)
> 
> Far worse was nighttime at the Fremont Street Experience.  I was a sailor for 20 years, and don't think I was ever propositioned so many times in such a short distance anywhere I've ever been.  I must have arrived just after the bus from the Bunny Ranch dropped them off, or something. It was amazing.
> 
> Dave



The part of the strip you were on is not the same as the mid-strip. You wil definitely see them handing out the cards in the mid-strip area where most of the people are.


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

BMWguynw said:


> I'll be there again next week, so will check.  I'm just surprised with the "family" nature Las Vegas is promoting so heavily that this sort of thing is still going on.  I agree with Karen - it should be stopped.
> 
> Dave



They stopped promoting the family trade a few years ago. Catering to the family business started in the early 90's because of the recession when they lost a lot of business from the California regulars. They realized what a mistake that was and stopped catering to the family trade. Steve Wynn said that promoting the family business was the stupidest thing they ever did in Las Vegas.


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

Fern Modena said:


> To amplify on what Karen says, just to name a few, how about Amazon.com, Zappos, Ethel M, Cashman Equipment, and Ocean Spray?  There are many more, of course, and I'm deliberately excluding the tourist and hospitality sectors.



Amazon.com is headquatered in Seattle, WA with all of its operations and development facilities also in Seattle. They do have one of their 11 warehouses in Las Vegas but that is scheduled to close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com


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## jfbookers (Jun 19, 2010)

*Just a note on LV stay*

Just got back from 4 day trip and enjoyed it overall with great food and shows around my wife visiting her 1 LV sister and 2 more from all over.
However we were leaving Friday and decided to avoid airport and airline food and use coupons fron the book Fern and others reccomended (American Casinos Guide) and drove out to Silverton for the lunch buffet 241 offer BUT NO WEEKDAY LUNCH BUFFET.Plenty of close parking however and near deserted casino. So we headed toward the airport and the Trop. BUT NO BUFFET. So went to Hooters next door for some pretty good boneless wings.
Just guessing but I bet they were both open 2 years ago. We will call in advance next time. Otherwise didn't see much depression evidence but wasn't really looking. Hope the city survives and real estate at least becomes stable. Yours, Jim


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## Karen G (Jun 19, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Amazon.com is headquatered in Seattle, WA with all of its operations and development facilities also in Seattle. They do have one of their 11 warehouses in Las Vegas but that is scheduled to close.


Amazon.com does have a presence in Las Vegas because they bought Zappos.com, but it is operated as a separate business.


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## Karen G (Jun 19, 2010)

jfbookers said:


> Just guessing but I bet they were both open 2 years ago. We will call in advance next time.


Next time you need to try the buffet at The M Resort instead.


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## Fern Modena (Jun 19, 2010)

I wasn't even aware that Amazon had a warehouse in North Las Vegas.  I was talking about the one in Fernley (near-ish to Reno), which has been there for at least seven or eight years.

Fern



John Cummings said:


> Amazon.com is headquatered in Seattle, WA with all of its operations and development facilities also in Seattle. They do have one of their 11 warehouses in Las Vegas but that is scheduled to close.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

*Going To Las Vegas.*

We hadn't planned any visits to Las Vegas in the foreseeable future until yesterday. The Paris just sent us an offer for 2 free tickets to the Barry Manilow show and comped accommodations. I called my contact at Caesar's Palace and she has us all set up now. My wife is a huge fan of Barry Manilow so we jumped on the offer right away. We will be staying 5 nights. We could have stayed in the Augustus tower at Caesar's like we did last November for the Bette Midler show but we opted for the Paris because that is where the show is. We had our choice of dates but had to select the dates for early July as the other ones clashed with other trips.

Though we have stayed at the Paris several times, we are not familiar with the theater there. Does anybody have any info about the theater? Because we are invited guests, we do not choose our seats but they will be in the best section. Our trip to Caesar's for the Bette Midler show was the same type of offer and they gave us fabulous seats in the middle of the front orchestra just a a few rows from the stage.


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

jfbookers said:


> Just got back from 4 day trip and enjoyed it overall with great food and shows around my wife visiting her 1 LV sister and 2 more from all over.
> However we were leaving Friday and decided to avoid airport and airline food and use coupons fron the book Fern and others reccomended (American Casinos Guide) and drove out to Silverton for the lunch buffet 241 offer BUT NO WEEKDAY LUNCH BUFFET.Plenty of close parking however and near deserted casino. So we headed toward the airport and the Trop. BUT NO BUFFET. So went to Hooters next door for some pretty good boneless wings.
> Just guessing but I bet they were both open 2 years ago. We will call in advance next time. Otherwise didn't see much depression evidence but wasn't really looking. Hope the city survives and real estate at least becomes stable. Yours, Jim



We used to go to the Silverton quite often a few years ago and it was generally very busy. We visited it 6 months ago on a weekend and it was virtually dead. They canceled the weekday buffet because of lack of business.


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## Karen G (Jun 19, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Does anybody have any info about the theater?


I've seen Barry Manilow at the Paris three times now and it's a fabulous show--even better than his show at the LV Hilton. The Paris theater is a wonderful venue and every seat is good. We've sat on the 8th row center, to the far left in the front section, and toward the left on the second from the last row in the back.  It was great everywhere we sat.

I like how he incorporates elements that relate to Paris in his show. I think it is the best show on the Strip.  I appreciate how classy he is--doesn't have to use any four-letter words or off-color jokes and his back-up singers and dancers are fully clothed.


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## John Cummings (Jun 19, 2010)

Karen G said:


> I've seen Barry Manilow at the Paris three times now and it's a fabulous show--even better than his show at the LV Hilton. The Paris theater is a wonderful venue and every seat is good. We've sat on the 8th row center, to the far left in the front section, and toward the left on the second from the last row in the back.  It was great everywhere we sat.
> 
> I like how he incorporates elements that relate to Paris in his show. I think it is the best show on the Strip.  I appreciate how classy he is--doesn't have to use any four-letter words or off-color jokes and his back-up singers and dancers are fully clothed.



Karen,

Thanks so much for the info. My wife is very excited about seeing the show. I like Barry but am not the big fan that she is. We were pretty sure we would receive the offer sometime as we get offers for all the shows in all the Harrah's properties. We are pretty selective and only accept a few offers for shows that we really want to see.


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