# Border crossing concern - should we cancel our trip?



## annetteterry (Jan 23, 2008)

I haven't crossed to Canada in over 10 years so I am not familiar with current procedures and now I have big concerns about an upcoming trip!  I am thinking we may need to cancel our timeshare stay!

I heard a newscast yesterday saying that Canada's border agents were turning people back for misdemeanors, including old DUI offenses.  One of the adults in our group has an offense on their record from over 12 years ago and a clean record since, but it sounds like the border police don't care if it was yesterday or 30 years ago from what I read.

We are driving cross country to visit Vancouver Island and if we get there and one person can't get across the border our trip will be a mess.

Before I cancel the trip, I am trying to learn as much as I can.

What is the likelihood that this will be an issue?  Are the agents checking driving records for all US citizens that cross?   What is the current process for crossing into Canada - it used to be "what are you here for?"  "how long?" and show me your license. 

I was also wondering if it might make a difference where you cross?  Since we are driving we could cross into Canada wherever we wish, or we could use the ferry from Port Angeles to Victoria if that is more trouble-free.

If the person we are traveling with were turned back at one crossing, is it possible to drive to another crossing and see if we get an agent who may view the situation differently and let them proceed?

I understand the serious nature of the offense but it has been 12+ years and no problem since so I am hoping that we can continue with our trip plans.  Of course he feels terrible that he may be ruining our vacation.

I am looking into the "rehabilitation" paperwork you can fill out in Canada but it appears it take a couple months to process and it looks like they will not have time to finish that before the trip.

Thanks for any insight you may be able to lend to this subject.


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## Dave M (Jan 23, 2008)

It looks to me as though the magic "rehabilitation" period for a DUI offense is 10 years.  See this info, especially the two "conviction" links at the bottom of the page. 

Also, you don't yet need a passport to return to the U.S. but it will make the border crossing much easier if each of you has one. Alternatively, you can get through if everyone has I.D. (e.g., a driver's license) and proof of U.S. citizenship, such as a birth certificate.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 23, 2008)

Dave M said:


> It looks to me as though the magic "rehabilitation" period for a DUI offense is 10 years.  See this info, especially the two "conviction" links at the bottom of the page.
> 
> Also, you don't yet need a passport to return to the U.S. but it will make the border crossing much easier if each of you has one. Alternatively, you can get through if everyone has I.D. (e.g., a driver's license) and proof of U.S. citizenship, such as a birth certificate.



Note that the birth certificate must be an official copy, issued by the registrar in the locale where the certificate was filed (usually the county).  The original will bear the embossed seal of the registrar. A photocopy is *not* acceptable.  

If the birth certificate doesn't meet those requirements the border agent will likely reject the certificate and deny re-entry.  You would then need to go to the nearest US Consulate to try to get things straightened out, which could take one or two days.


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## Dave M (Jan 23, 2008)

I agree, Steve. It's for that very reason (or risk) that most travel advisors seem to strongly recommend having a passport.


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## annetteterry (Jan 23, 2008)

We have original birth certificates for myself and my husband and official copies with the embossed seal for both of our kids.  The other two adults have current passports.

We could get passports but weren't planning any other pending international travel.  However, I am wondering if we should reconsider.  I am not sure if this would have any affect on whether they run background checks or whether any of the group would get delayed or turned back.

I had read the 10 year reference as well but I thought that if it had been 10 years you could fill out the paperwork for a rehabilitation application.  The way I read it,  the person's record is not actually cleared until the application and corresponding paperwork is submitted and approved (approx. 60 days to process).  I thought that is why I have been reading of people detained for offenses as long ago as the 1970's.


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## copper (Jan 23, 2008)

So does Canada maintain a database of all US convictions? If you don't tell them how will they know?

Just answer no to all the questions the border guards ask. Last time we drove to BC the main question did we have any guns, we didn't, but it was asked several times so I must look like I'm a gun smuggler. It looks like this 'rehabilitation' in just a money maker.


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## annetteterry (Jan 23, 2008)

What I have read is that the US has allowed Canada access to all the same criminal records information that any police or state patrol officer can get.   If you have any convictions or tickets that show up on your BCA record the officials at border patrol can see them. (visa versa for US viewing Canadian records).

Whether they choose to look at these for everyone, or just for some people is one question I am trying to figure out.  If not all, what prompts them to look at the criminal records and will we have a problem getting thru if one of our group has an old DUI on their record.

And what they do with that information is the next question.   A DUI is a fealony in Canada so they are turning people back and not letting them in even if the offense was years ago.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 23, 2008)

annetteterry said:


> We have original birth certificates for myself and my husband and official copies with the embossed seal for both of our kids.  The other two adults have current passports.
> 
> We could get passports but weren't planning any other pending international travel.  However, I am wondering if we should reconsider.  I am not sure if this would have any affect on whether they run background checks or whether any of the group would get delayed or turned back.
> 
> I had read the 10 year reference as well but I thought that if it had been 10 years you could fill out the paperwork for a rehabilitation application.  The way I read it,  the person's record is not actually cleared until the application and corresponding paperwork is submitted and approved (approx. 60 days to process).  I thought that is why I have been reading of people detained for offenses as long ago as the 1970's.



Passports aren't only important for travel.  They are a very good from of personal identification to use in lieu of a drivers license.  If you ever lose your DL, getting a replacement is easy if you have a passport, because you don't have to prove who you are.  A passport is also a more secure form of personal identification, and can be used in almost every situation in which you would use a DL.

I use my passport as my primary ID when traveling.  The only people who see my drivers license when I'm on the road are those who have a legitimate need to see a drivers license - that pretty much means the only ones who see my DL is car rental companies.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 23, 2008)

annetteterry said:


> What I have read is that the US has allowed Canada access to all the same criminal records information that any police or state patrol officer can get.   If you have any convictions or tickets that show up on your BCA record the officials at border patrol can see them. (visa versa for US viewing Canadian records).
> 
> Whether they choose to look at these for everyone, or just for some people is one question I am trying to figure out.  If not all, what prompts them to look at the criminal records and will we have a problem getting thru if one of our group has an old DUI on their record.
> 
> And what they do with that information is the next question.   A DUI is a fealony in Canada so they are turning people back and not letting them in even if the offense was years ago.



I don't recall ever being asked about that in any of border crossings.


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## annetteterry (Jan 23, 2008)

Here are three articles that I found very quickly when researching...one from the Eastern US, one from the Midwest and one from the West Coast.  Each of these makes it sound like there has been a change in policy and that we should be prepared to be denied entry if someone in our car as a previous dwi(or other) conviction.  I would not have looked into this except that our local news covered a story yesterday about people trying to enter Canada to vacation and they were turned away.

_http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/23/MNGCAO9NSB1.DTL_

_http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1196760933145060.xml&coll=2

http://www.startribune.com/local/12927556.html_

This is the website I found with the legal information relating to crossing the border if you have an old DUI offense:

_http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/minnesotadwiandentrancetocanada/_


I always appreciate the feedback I get here from people who have been-there/done-that so hopefully others can weigh in on what the real-life experience would be at the border crossing these days.

I can't picture leaving one person in the US for a week and continuing our vacation on Vancouver Island, and we have 2 units at Pacific Shores exchanged/paid for so I'd like to learn as much as possible now.


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## Dave M (Jan 23, 2008)

Those newspaper articles provide anecdotal situations, which are refuted by the quotes from Canadian government officials - in the same articles - stating that Canadian entry requirements have not changed.

Further, the last link in your post has a link at the bottom of the page that goes to the same Canadian government link as mine, which among other things, refers to the 10-year deemed rehabilitation.

So whom do you believe: A newspaper article with a few less-than authoritative quotes or the statements of Canadian government officials that are backed up by the info on their website? 

Fear the worst and cancel if you wish, but if you do, you'll miss out on a wonderful vacation.


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## annetteterry (Jan 23, 2008)

I would much sooner believe you, and if the procedures at the border haven't changed then this will probably turn out okay. I don't want to miss a wonderful vacation but I want to be prepared.  The media has made me worry about something I would not normally have even thought of.

I guess based on the 10 year  period having passed that it would be okay to answer NO to the question of "Do you have a criminal record"? (if indeed that is what they ask) and then then probably won't pursue it any further.

I wasn't sure if they had begun checking everyones BCA record routinely,  in which case we would potentially anticipate some problems if the anecdotal incidents sited in the various newspaper and tv reports were correct.


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## Fern Modena (Jan 23, 2008)

This is not exactly accurate.  The original must contain an original seal from the registrar, but it need not be embossed.  In California it is inked, in purple.  It hasn't been embossed in many, many years.

Fern



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Note that the birth certificate must be an official copy, issued by the registrar in the locale where the certificate was filed (usually the county).  _The original will bear the embossed seal of the registrar_. A photocopy is *not* acceptable.
> 
> If the birth certificate doesn't meet those requirements the border agent will likely reject the certificate and deny re-entry.  You would then need to go to the nearest US Consulate to try to get things straightened out, which could take one or two days.


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## DaveNV (Jan 23, 2008)

A few points to consider:

1.  I live near the Canadian border north of Seattle.  If every vehicle lined up at the border on either side was turned away due to past infractions of one occupant, the streets would be littered with people who would be looking for a lift home, and there would be no traffic lines at the checkpoints.  I think a DUI conviction 12 years ago of a non-driving passenger in your family vehicle isn't likely to cause much concern.  If it was a felony conviction, it might have more weight. But a simple DUI just isn't likely to be that important to them.

2.  I've crossed the border several times using only my passport, and it went slick as a breeze.  Even if you don't expect you'll need it, I'd recommend getting one, if you have time before your trip.  They're good for ten years, and if you decide in a year or two that you want to make a trip to Mexico or Europe (for example) you're already set.  It's money well spent.

3.  The ferry terminal in Port Angeles is where they arrested the so-called Millennium Bomber, who had planned to blow up LAX airport in 2000.  So even though it's a small town, Port Angeles agents do their job well.

Edit:  4.  I found this on a traveler's website:  "For more information about going into Canada, phone the border-crossing post directly.  For answers to Canadian customs enquiries, or to locate the nearest Canadian customs district office, call the following telephone numbers:   From within Canada, call: (toll-free) 1-800 461-9999.  From outside Canada, call: 204-983-3500; or, 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges apply)."  I'd say it's worth making a phone call or two.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave


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## falmouth3 (Jan 23, 2008)

It's been a few years since I drove across the border into Canada and returned so I don't have current information, but a couple of anecdotes.

The last time, I was with a Canadian citizen who has a green card for the US.  He speaks with a heavy European accent.  They questioned him a bit when we crossed over and he said - and Sue is an American. The US border guard didn't even look at me or ask me a question.

Another time, my husband and I were taking our dog across the border with us.  She had a 3 year rabies vaccine and we'd heard that they wouldn't accept that, that Canada wanted proof of vaccination within a year.  I made several calls and never got a real answer so we decided to chance it and just bring the documentation we had.  So we drive up to the Canadian border with our large, Samoyed mix sharing the front seat with us because the back was filled with camping gear.  The border guard says "what a nice dog, what kind is she?"  He asked a couple more questions about the dog, but no vaccination questions, didn't question us about our nationality or where we were headed.  Just wished us a nice trip.  Same thing happened on the way back into the US.  

That was way before 9/11, but we were astounded  A full truck of stuff an no questions about anything except friendly questions about the dog.


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## Chrisky (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi. For your own peace of mind I would definitely invest in a long distance phone call to make sure. I tried to check the Canada Customs website, but was not able to find any info. The phone numbers that JeepGuyNw posted are the ones you should use.
I would also strongly suggest getting passports. They are much more convenient. Otherwise you will need original birth certificates and photo ID.


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## NTHC (Jan 23, 2008)

Based on my own experience crossing the border to Niagara Falls in July, I think you will be fine.  We had planned a trip to Canada, but in the mean time I had sent my official birth certificate to get a passport.  My husband had his, but all I had was the certificate of live birth( the one with the foot prints on it) that came home with me from the hospital.  The border agent simply asked where we were going, how long we were staying and what we had in our vehicle.  Coming back, they asked where we lived and how long we had been gone.  I think the media can make things worse than they really are.  I called in advance and was told that I would not be allowed to cross, but we had already planned the trip and decided we could stay on the US side if there actually was a problem.

Hope things work out for you.

Cindy


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## BevL (Jan 24, 2008)

I truly think, and I cross the border regularly, that a lot has to do with how you approach the boder people.  If you're are respectful without being nervous and just answer their questions directly, without either adding too much information or being evasive, you'll likely be fine.


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## eal (Jan 24, 2008)

Don't let some sensationalized media hype influence your decision to take your Canadian vacation.

If the DUI is more than 10 years ago it will not be in any border crossing database.  

At the border entering back to the US they will want picture ID plus official ID such as an original birth certificate.  If you don't have time to get a passport you will still be fine with the documentation that you have now.

Have a wonderful trip!


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## geekette (Jan 24, 2008)

My personal opinion, if the question is asked, answer truthfully.  Do not lie to a border crossing official.  Whether the data is or isn't available to them isn't something you want to be second-guessing.  If a lie is told and found out, bigger trouble may be in store.

If the question is only asked of the driver, only the driver need answer.

Definitely make those phone calls and take your trip with no worries!


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 24, 2008)

Maybe if you are still concerned, have that one person fly and meet you.
Liz


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## Floridaski (Jan 24, 2008)

*Just get passports*

Just go get a US passport - you are going to need one in to re-enter the US from any international flight.  This includes the Bahamas, Mexico and Canada.  We just got one for our son and it was processed in 2 weeks.  We did NOT ask for express service, but it appears that the passport folks have gotten their act together.  Get the passports and then there is no need for driver license checks.  It will also make your border crossing easier and quicker....I know you are driving but with today's environment I think Birth Certificates and Drivers License ID's are not going be sufficient past 2008.


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## wackymother (Jan 24, 2008)

Just a word to those getting passports. As you get new government identification and renew older items, make sure that everything you get has the EXACT same name on it. They are getting more and more careful. You want to be sure to have the same middle names, the same middle initials, the same last name on everything. 

And if you only have an old copy of your birth certificate or your marriage license or any other official document, get a nice new fresh copy and put it away in case you need it. If you have lost your Social Security card in the mists of time, go to Social Security and get a new one and put that away, too.


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## AKE (Jan 26, 2008)

The border officials have a lot of discretion - if they want to be sticky (or if that is the operating orders for that day) then they will follow the letter of the law.  It doesn't matter where you cross - it is one database that is used.  US officials have access to the Canadian database and vice versa. We live on the canadian side near the border and cross it at times, on a weekly or more often basis (we have a son at school in the states who also played on baseball teams that were in a league which spanned the border so during the summer it was at times, almost daily crossings).  Most of the time it is a few questions (either way) but sometimes  (and especially with new border officers) its 50 questions -  I have heard horror stories of businessmen who had a conviction 30+ years ago being denied entry to Canada (the story that I recall is an individual, as a university student, stole a sign or something.. to speed up the process he was told to plead guilty and the fine was a suspended sentence... 30 years later he tried to cross the border (after he had done so numerous times in the past without any difficulties) and he was denied entry AND it makes no difference if you go to another border point because your REFUSED ENTRY into the country is documented in the computer.  

The best bet is to call Canada Border Security (http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/menu-eng.html) .. According to the website:

If you call during office hours (Monday to Friday, 08:00 to 16:00) local time, you can speak directly to an agent 204-983-3700 or 506-636-5067 .


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