# ebola



## easyrider (Oct 10, 2014)

We arrived at newerk (EWR) and everyone was on automatic prescreen through security. We asked someone who thought it was because of the people that came in sick from Liberia last week that quarantined a flight. On the news this morning there was word of airport workers refusing to show up at a couple of airports. Makes a person wonder. Especially while waiting for an airplane.

Bill


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## Mister Sir (Oct 10, 2014)

We cancelled a trip to California this month because of uncertainty about the safety of flying. I'd rather err on the side of caution.


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## persia (Oct 10, 2014)

If you don't fly ebola wins!



Mister Sir said:


> We cancelled a trip to California this month because of uncertainty about the safety of flying. I'd rather err on the side of caution.


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## Passepartout (Oct 10, 2014)

I hope more people cancel. I hate full airplanes, and love a chance at an upgrade.


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## Luanne (Oct 10, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> We cancelled a trip to California this month because of uncertainty about the safety of flying. I'd rather err on the side of caution.



Confused. 

Safety of flying due to ebola?  Wasn't aware there was an issue between Florida and California.  Unless you know something I don't I don't think flying itself is any less safe.

We're flying to SFO next week, and then early next year to Maui.  I am *not* cancelling any of those trips.


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## Southpaw (Oct 10, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I hope more people cancel. I hate full airplanes, and love a chance at an upgrade.



I have some business trips coming up and I've been thinking the exact same thing!


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## DaveNV (Oct 10, 2014)

If people stay home, Ebola or not, flying becomes something of a surprise.

The month after 9/11 the skies were empty.  I got two tickets on Continental Airlines from Seattle to Orlando for $125 roundtrip each.   In Orlando we got hotel accommodations at a Renaissance Inn I think, (very nice place), for something like $60 a night.  I then got discount Disney Park Hopper tickets through the military for something like $100 each.  The entire week, with meals, was less than $1000.  It was ridiculous.  

Dave


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## SmithOp (Oct 10, 2014)

We don't need any more tourists in CA either, it's our time to enjoy 

We went to Honolulu after 9/11, cheap airfare, preview package at HHV and we purchased.  Fell in love with Lagoon tower premier unit OF, maybe that should be LF lagoon front. All the shopkeepers were practically dragging people in to shop, lots of bargains.


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## Mister Sir (Oct 10, 2014)

Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.


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## Luanne (Oct 10, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.



Question.  Have you traveled much by air before now?  Just curious.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 10, 2014)

All viruses are not created equal; vector, transmission, mutation, viral load, etc.
 So, comparing Ebola to seasonal influenza does not make a reasoned argument. Comparing it to Avian, Swine flu or the Pandemic Spanish Influenza  may be a more comparable. The transmission mode differs, but the hows/whys of the chances of global spread should be considered. Bioterrorism is also a concern.

I have no immediate plans for air travel, but am going back to London and Ireland next May (international flight).

I am taking a wait & see attitude on this trip. If Ebola goes to pandemic status, I will stay home. If it is contained and brought under control, I may go. It depends...................



I remember the march of H1N1 across the world. Bad as it was, it did not carry the fatality rate of Ebola. Fortunately, a vaccine was developed and H1N1was contained (along with other interventions).

As a former/current healthcare professional/regulatory legal consultant, I consult for/in a vaccines & diagnostics setting for a Mega-Pharma.

 I have lunch with virologists and immunologists daily. Our discussions are interesting, educational, hopeful and concerning.

I think that this temperature taking at airports is lame at best, misleading at worst.

Right now, I am not concerned with domestic flights. That is, as/of this post.

If the virus mutates or the vector changes,  it could be very, very, very bad.



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## VacationForever (Oct 10, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.



I am with you. I hate flying and breathing everyone else's germs and avoid flying IF I could.  For that reason, I drive 10 hours from Northern California to Las Vegas area every month instead of flying.  Ebola situation just worsens the germophobia in me.  I am flying to Kansas City for a conference tomorrow and back next week and I am dreading it more than before. If I could drive I would but it's 24-hr driving non-stop so I really do not have a choice other than not go, which is really not a good option either.

I had been a frequent traveler for business in the past but that had made me even hate flying more.


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## HatTrick (Oct 10, 2014)

persia said:


> If you don't fly ebola wins!



:hysterical:  Indeed it does!


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## dougp26364 (Oct 10, 2014)

First, maybe people should look at how you can, and more importantly, how you can not, get ebola. Primarily for those posting here, you can NOT get ebola breathing the air. See this link http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-10/how-you-can-and-cannot-get-ebola/5803250

There are several diseases we should worry about more than ebola but, ebola has an extremely high kill rate where some of the others, not so much. 

I'm in Vegas now. Considering how many people are here from so many different nations, if there was a risk I'm probably in one of the higher risk tourist locations. Does it cross my mind? Yes. Does it stop me? Obviously not. I work as an ICU nurse. I'm not certain if I'm more logical or stupid than those who won't fly because they're worried about breathing recirculated air on an airplane, which, BTW, is something else you should Google. It's not the same air for the duration of the flight.  http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/cabin-air-quality/


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## DaveNV (Oct 10, 2014)

sptung said:


> I am with you. I hate flying and breathing everyone else's germs and avoid flying IF I could.  For that reason, I drive 10 hours from Northern California to Las Vegas area every month instead of flying.  Ebola situation just worsens the germophobia in me.  I am flying to Kansas City for a conference tomorrow and back next week and I am dreading it more than before. If I could drive I would but it's 24-hr driving non-stop so I really do not have a choice other than not go, which is really not a good option either.
> 
> I had been a frequent traveler for business in the past but that had made me even hate flying more.




But once you get to Vegas, aren't you sharing even more people's germs, by being in the same room with them?  I'd think walking around a resort casino or swimming pool area or even on a crowded street would be far worse than sitting on a plane for awhile.

Dave


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## puppymommo (Oct 10, 2014)

persia said:


> If you don't fly ebola wins!



From an evolutionary standpoint, this is not true. 

Ebola wins when it is spread the farthest possible in the world up to the point right before it kills off too many people, because then it would cease to exist!


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## Luanne (Oct 10, 2014)

BMWguynw said:


> But once you get to Vegas, aren't you sharing even more people's germs, by being in the same room with them?  I'd think walking around a resort casino or swimming pool area or even on a crowded street would be far worse than sitting on a plane for awhile.
> 
> Dave



Excellent point!


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## Jimster (Oct 10, 2014)

Ebola is NOT an airborne disease.  Unless you plan on kissing or hugging your fellow passengers you have little to worry about.  OTOH if an ebola victim spit or bled on a dollar bill you touched that could transmit the virus too.  Are you going to give up money as well?  At this point, the risk of contracting ebola here is statistically very low.  I am sure you are safer on a plane than in your car even given the possibility of Ebola.

If you really are serious, I suggest you NEVER go to a hospital-for any reason.  Don't visit anyone there; don't go there for treatment; and certainly never stay there.  The number of people who contract diseases in hospitals is in the hundred of thousands each year.


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## Luanne (Oct 10, 2014)

Jimster said:


> If you really are serious, I suggest you NEVER go to a hospital-for any reason.  Don't visit anyone there; don't go there for treatment; and certainly never stay there.  The number of people who contract diseases in hospitals is in the hundred of thousands each year.



And remember, you can always get hit by a bus when crossing the street.


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## ampaholic (Oct 10, 2014)

Luanne said:


> And remember, you can always get hit by a bus when crossing the street.



And if the bus has an ad about preventing the spread of Ebola on it's side - does Ebola then win?


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## VacationForever (Oct 10, 2014)

BMWguynw said:


> But once you get to Vegas, aren't you sharing even more people's germs, by being in the same room with them?  I'd think walking around a resort casino or swimming pool area or even on a crowded street would be far worse than sitting on a plane for awhile.
> 
> Dave



I don't go to Las Vegas, the Strip.  I have a home in a nearby town.


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## CarolF (Oct 10, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I hope more people cancel. I hate full airplanes, and love a chance at an upgrade.



I'm with you on that one.    However, after news this morning about cleaning staff refusing to turn up for work, I'm going to limit my fluid intake onboard.


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## DaveNV (Oct 10, 2014)

sptung said:


> I don't go to Las Vegas, the Strip.  I have a home in a nearby town.



Ok That certainly reduces your chance of catching something.  I was trying to imagine how a germophobe would survive in Las Vegas.  It's such a gathering point of the unwashed masses from EVERYWHERE else.

I work in a hospital, and I'm always washing my hands, just from touching things.  And I don't work in the medical part of things - I'm an IT tech, so get to handle all that nasty, dirty computer equipment.  You wouldn't believe how filthy that stuff gets to be.  If I was a germophobe, I'd be freaking out every day.

Dave


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## billymach4 (Oct 10, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.



You are absolutely wrong. The air inside of the aircraft cabin is changed more often than the air in a bus, train, or your local supermarket. The mere fact that the aircraft is pressurized will tell you that the pressure leaks! The pressure escaping from the cabin is overcompensated by pressure from the air conditioning and heating system, driven by compressed air from engines and ram air from the outside. You are NOT re-breathing air from the other passengers.

How does pressure leak from an aircraft? Intentionally. There are valves located on the fuselage that regulate the cabin pressure. Also there are minor pressure leaks from the skin of the fuselage. As a matter of fact there are drain holes located at the bottom of the fuselage that permit fluid that may build up to drain out of the bottom. Next time you spill your drink in flight some of the fluid may trickle down and rain over your house!


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## Mister Sir (Oct 10, 2014)

That's it! I'm never leaving my house again. If you want me, I'll be in bed hiding under the covers.


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## ampaholic (Oct 10, 2014)

from http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/how-things-work-cabin-pressure-2870604/?no-ist

"Air is pressurized by the engines. Turbofan engines compress intake air with a series of vaned rotors right behind the fan. At each stage of compression, the air gets hotter, and at the point where the heat and pressure are highest, some air is diverted. Some of the hot, high-pressure air, called bleed air, is sent to de-ice wings and other surfaces, some goes to systems operated by air pressure, and some starts its journey to the cabin.

The cabin-bound air has to be cooled first in an intercooler, a device like a car radiator that sheds the heat to the ambient air scooped aboard for that purpose. From there the air travels into the airplane’s belly, where air packs cool it further using air cycle refrigeration. An air cycle cooler is perhaps the simplest air conditioner ever invented, because it doesn’t need a refrigerant as an intermediate fluid to dump heat. The air packs compress the incoming air to heat it before sending it to another intercooler to dump the heat to the outside. The air then expands through an expansion turbine, which cools it the way blowing with your lips pursed results in a cool flow of air."

The air in a plane may or may not be changed more often than in a bus, or train or your local supermarket, since all of these systems have variable flow HVAC systems it is hard to quantify - but Billy is right, you do get fresh air while in a plane.


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## billymach4 (Oct 10, 2014)

Now this is what I call Air Conditioning! 







http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42434710/ns/travel-news/#.VDiMufldXTo


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## dioxide45 (Oct 10, 2014)

billymach4 said:


> You are absolutely wrong. The air inside of the aircraft cabin is changed more often than the air in a bus, train, or your local supermarket. The mere fact that the aircraft is pressurized will tell you that the pressure leaks! The pressure escaping from the cabin is overcompensated by pressure from the air conditioning and heating system, driven by compressed air from engines and ram air from the outside. You are NOT re-breathing air from the other passengers.
> 
> How does pressure leak from an aircraft? Intentionally. There are valves located on the fuselage that regulate the cabin pressure. Also there are minor pressure leaks from the skin of the fuselage. As a matter of fact there are drain holes located at the bottom of the fuselage that permit fluid that may build up to drain out of the bottom. Next time you spill your drink in flight some of the fluid may trickle down and rain over your house!





ampaholic said:


> from http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/how-things-work-cabin-pressure-2870604/?no-ist
> 
> "Air is pressurized by the engines. Turbofan engines compress intake air with a series of vaned rotors right behind the fan. At each stage of compression, the air gets hotter, and at the point where the heat and pressure are highest, some air is diverted. Some of the hot, high-pressure air, called bleed air, is sent to de-ice wings and other surfaces, some goes to systems operated by air pressure, and some starts its journey to the cabin.
> 
> ...



If 200 people were placed in a sealed tube with only that tubes air to breath, would they even survive a five hour flight?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 10, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.



Isn't this an issue any time you are flying, not sure what Ebola would have to do with this. Do you not fly during flu season?


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## MommaBear (Oct 11, 2014)

As scary as the thought of Ebola is, one person in the US who caught the disease in Africa has died. This may change but right now Ebola is not a threat.

40,0000 people die of the FLU in the US every year. Where's the outrage? The panic?


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## mav (Oct 11, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I hope more people cancel. I hate full airplanes, and love a chance at an upgrade.



   You and me both!  We fly home tomorrow from England LHR, and the first week in November we head to Dubai. I would LOVE an upgrade on them


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## dioxide45 (Oct 11, 2014)

MommaBear said:


> As scary as the thought of Ebola is, one person in the US who caught the disease in Africa has died. This may change but right now Ebola is not a threat.
> 
> 40,0000 people die of the FLU in the US every year. Where's the outrage? The panic?



This is why I find it odd that people would be cancelling vacation plans because of ebola. I could understand if you cancelled plans to visit Africa, but not going to Hawaii or California or not taking any domestic USA flight? Strange, IMO. Your odds of catching Ebola in this manner are about the same as you catching it in your local Walmart.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 11, 2014)

Ebola is completely over-hyped, a media-driven phenomena designed to play on people's worst fears and driven by 24-hour news channels that need to fill time and grab ratings.

The flu will kill hundreds of thousands of people this year - as always.  You're a lot more likely to get it than ebola.  Get your flu shot and turn off the 24 hour news on TV.


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 11, 2014)

U.S. To Begin Ebola Screenings at 5 Airports - by
 Sabrina Tavernese and Michael D. Shear/ U.S./ The New York Times.com

"Federal officials said Wednesday that they would begin temperature screenings of passengers arriving from West Africa at five American airports, beginning with Kennedy International in New York as early as this weekend, as the United States races to respond to a deadly Ebola outbreak.

Travelers at the four other airports — Washington Dulles International, O’Hare International, Hartsfield-Jackson International and Newark Liberty International — will be screened starting next week, according to federal officials.

The screenings, which will include taking the passengers’ temperatures with a gun-like, noncontact thermometer and requiring them to fill out a questionnaire after deplaning, will be for people arriving from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea, the three countries hardest hit by the epidemic.

About 90 percent of the people arriving from the three countries come through the five airports, officials said. Kennedy Airport alone has about 43 percent of the travelers. The second-highest share of visitors — 22 percent — come through Washington Dulles..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 11, 2014)

Ebola Facts: How Many Patients Are Being Treated Outside of West Africa? - By Jeremy Ashkenas, Larry Buchanan, Joe Burgess, Denise Grady, Josh Keller, K.K. Rebecca Lai, Patrick J. Lyons, Heather Murphy, Haeyoun Park, Sergio Peçanha and Karen Yourish/ Africa/ The New York Times.com







Be sure to read the whole article to get a better understanding of Ebola. Good overview of the issues.


Richard


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## SMHarman (Oct 11, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Paranoid? Over-reacting? Illogical? Perhaps, but something about sharing a confined space with 200 strangers re-breathing the same air for 5 hours doesn't sit right with me. I hope I'm wrong.


You recreate little of the air in a plane. About 50% is exhausted and replenished. The other 50% is HEPA filtered. 


http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/cabinair/environmentcontrol.page

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/cabinair/

And Airbus, bombardier etc is much the same. 

Breathing the same air would mean you all would suffocate.


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## Tia (Oct 11, 2014)

Thanks for posting on this topic, I'd be interested in updates from you re . 



Beaglemom3 said:


> All viruses are not created equal; vector, transmission, mutation, viral load, etc.
> So, comparing Ebola to seasonal influenza does not make a reasoned argument. Comparing it to Avian, Swine flu or the Pandemic Spanish Influenza  may be a more comparable. The transmission mode differs, but the hows/whys of the chances of global spread should be considered. Bioterrorism is also a concern.
> 
> I have no immediate plans for air travel, but am going back to London and Ireland next May (international flight).
> ...


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 11, 2014)

Tia said:


> Thanks for posting on this topic, I'd be interested in updates from you re .



  You're welcome, but although I am informed by the best, this is not my field of expertise. I keep reading and educating myself on the nature of viruses (as I work in V & D) and I pose questions to experts who understand the nature of the beast.

The experts are the virologists, immunologists, public health, scientists, medical teams and communicable illness folks who are working very hard. I just have the chance to sit with some of them at times. I feel like a sponge soaking up knowledge. This is their life's work. 

  Just monitor the situation from* reliable sources*, although sometimes they conflict each other. Ignore the hype and the less reputable sources.




,


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## Talent312 (Oct 11, 2014)

Ebola is spread only thru contact with bodily fluids or secretions.
Just don't touch someone if you don't know where they've been.

A microbiologist (my ex) says Earth is overdue for a major pandemic.
It'll likely be antibiotic-resistant airborne bacteria, like bubonic plague.

The safest thing to do is stay home and pull the covers over your head.
About that time, your house will be demolished by falling space debris.

.


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## easyrider (Oct 11, 2014)

The cost to treat Ebola is staggering. The World Bank is reporting that the cost to treat people in the effected countries could be as high as 32 billion in the next 16 months. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-world-bank-issues-dire-warning-about-economic-impact/

I was also reading that if or when ebola hits south or central America there will be a very large group of immigrants heading to the USA for treatment.

As far as the Newark airport went yesterday, it was odd and kind of uncomfortable due to the fact that TSA and airport workers were a bit concerned for their own safety due to ebola. 

Its probably like when AIDS was a concern back the early 80's until it was proven to be harder to catch than sitting next to some one. 

Bill


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## Mister Sir (Oct 12, 2014)

A Dallas healthcare worker who treated Duncan has tested positive for ebola.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 12, 2014)

Here is an article on the 2nd patient in Dallas.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...yterian-hospital-tests-positive-for-ebola.ece


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## ampaholic (Oct 12, 2014)

Talent312 said:


> Ebola is spread only thru contact with bodily fluids or secretions.
> Just don't touch someone if you don't know where they've been.
> 
> A microbiologist (my ex) says Earth is overdue for a major pandemic.
> ...



If your ex is wrong about bubonic plague (it is NOT an antibiotic-resistant *airborne* bacteria) is he/she also wrong about Ebola?

Fact checking is so easy these days - thanks to google.

http://plague.emedtv.com/bubonic-plague/bubonic-plague-transmission.html


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## easyrider (Oct 12, 2014)

The only real non pharmaceutical effective treatment for killing ebola is ultraviolet light. They use this type of equipment to give people tans and to disinfect hospital rooms. Because of FDA regulations this equipment can not be used to treat ebola probably due to vaccine sales plunging should this be used on other diseases.

The ebola test they are using is a presumptive test that relies on more data. In other words the test is not reliable according to the DOD. 

Bill


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## PearlCity (Oct 12, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> If 200 people were placed in a sealed tube with only that tubes air to breath, would they even survive a five hour flight?


My thoughts exactly  lol. The concentration  of carbon dioxide would go up and oxygen down without  air changes. I would think air being thinner up in the air would require a lot more air changes than on the ground.


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## Rsauer3473 (Oct 12, 2014)

Having just received a knee replacement with a few days in the hospital, I have been watching more news about Ebola than usual. And I just saw on Twitter that surgical masks are appearing in greater number at LAX ( though I have seen these a lot in HNL among Japanese tourists).

While Ebola is not airborne, I can think of quite a few places on an airplane where one might come into contact with another's bodily fluid on secondary surfaces. (I understand the virus does not live long outside the body.) Just imagine the places you touch in the event you need to go to the restroom and you are seated in a window seat: armrest, seat back, sides of aisle seats between your row and the restroom, door handle outside, door handle inside..... I'll leave it there. You could go nuts thinking about it. 

But I will still fly to WKORVN in January and other places as well. But I am thinking of taking some rational precautions: carry antiseptic hand cleaner, carry a mask to use if the Ebola mess expands, wear long sleeves and long pants.

By the way, we had already made our Hawaiian Airlines reservations before my surgery. So I called the airline the other day to see about changing a seat in the event my mobility is an issue. (I am walking short distances without assistance now.) I was told that HA has specific seats reserved for such cases (canes, walkers, immovable legs, etc). We were moved to 15A and B for our PDX to HNL legs. No charge. This is the row behind the bulkhead row.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 12, 2014)

It may have just arrived in Boston.

We shall see.  Let's hope it's malaria or GI symptoms. The  suspect patient was transferred to the hospital  that I go to for my own care, Beth Israel. I am supposed to go there next week for my orthopedic appt.


http://news.yahoo.com/patient-isola...aying-ebola-symptoms-newspaper-200117720.html




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## Talent312 (Oct 12, 2014)

ampaholic said:


> If your ex is wrong about bubonic plague (it is NOT an antibiotic-resistant *airborne* bacteria)...



I misspoke and should correct myself (before I'm sued)...
She didn't say that bubonic plague was airborne. More precisely, she said:

The next true pandemic would be as bad as (like) the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages -- in which one estimate says half of Europe died in 4 years -- but (this time) would likely involve an antibiotic-resistant bacteria that became airborne.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 12, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> It may have just arrived in Boston.
> 
> We shall see.  The patient was transferred to the hospital  that I go to for my own care, Beth Israel. I am supposed to go there next week for my orthopedic appt.
> 
> ...



I was in the area by coincidence.  Harvard Vanguard (which is my doctor's office)  sits at the beginning of Grossman Drive, the only street in/out of a large shopping area.  On the way in we saw an ambulance escorted by two police cars coming out; on the way out I took a few pics of the emergency/press vehicles still on site.  There were a lot of vehicles!





















They're reporting locally that the patient recently visited Liberia, and the facility followed infectious disease protocols when s/he came in today with symptoms.  There's no confirmation of an ebola diagnosis.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 12, 2014)

Whoa !!!!!!!!!!

 I am hoping that it is something else like Malaria, intestinal or other.
My neighbor here in MetroWest is a physician there at Harvard.  My neighbor on the Cape is chief of Medicine in Needham -BIDMC.




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## Mister Sir (Oct 12, 2014)

Hmmm, maybe it's time to start making my way toward Boulder.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 12, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Hmmm, maybe it's time to start making my way toward Boulder.



Or will you be called toward Las Vegas?


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## SueDonJ (Oct 12, 2014)

Mister Sir said:


> Hmmm, maybe it's time to start making my way toward Boulder.





dioxide45 said:


> Or will you be called toward Las Vegas?



Yep, definitely time to re-read that one.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 12, 2014)

My late Dad's advice to me, "Don't put your umbrella up until it starts to rain".

I'm thinking that it could be sprinkling ?  




=


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## Passepartout (Oct 13, 2014)

Here, from the head of the National Institutes of Health. To keep Ebola in perspective:

Collins didn't downplay the severity of the disease, noting that its rapid spread in Africa, and the humanitarian disaster it has left in its wake, should rattle people. He also agreed with the comparison made by Tom Frieden, head of the CDC, who recently said the current Ebola crisis is the worst epidemic since the outbreak of AIDS. But, Collins added, perspective was still needed.

*"More people will die today of AIDS than have died so far in the entire Ebola epidemic,"* said Collins. "We've somehow gotten used to that, and it doesn't seem to be so threatening or frightening. Certainly in the United States, another 50,000 people will get infected with HIV this year, because that's been sort of the steady number."

"How many more people will get infected with Ebola this year in the U.S.?" he went on. "I would guess you could count among the fingers of two hands, depending on what contacts of the guy in Dallas actually turned out to get infected."


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## WinniWoman (Oct 13, 2014)

Jimster said:


> Ebola is NOT an airborne disease.  Unless you plan on kissing or hugging your fellow passengers you have little to worry about.  OTOH if an ebola victim spit or bled on a dollar bill you touched that could transmit the virus too.  Are you going to give up money as well?  At this point, the risk of contracting ebola here is statistically very low.  I am sure you are safer on a plane than in your car even given the possibility of Ebola.
> 
> If you really are serious, I suggest you NEVER go to a hospital-for any reason.  Don't visit anyone there; don't go there for treatment; and certainly never stay there.  The number of people who contract diseases in hospitals is in the hundred of thousands each year.




Not true. They just proved in London it can be transmitted in moist air through coughing or sneezing and from surfaces and sweat.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 13, 2014)

All viruses, not being created equal, is a core concern here.

With Ebola, it hits fast & furious with a high-mortality rate  (70-90%) in a very short time (1-2 weeks)  unlike HIV. 

Ebola's viral load is incredible.


I highly recommend watching this:  "Surving Ebola" on PBS  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/surviving-ebola.html  PBS

It is well done and gives insight to the early-early originis of the virus and its replication and spread. You can click and watch it on line.





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## Jimster (Oct 13, 2014)

'Not true. They just proved in London it can be transmitted in moist air through coughing or sneezing and from surfaces and sweat."

It is true.  Those are simply other modes of contact of bodily fluids.  If i spit on someone, even though it traveled through the air to get to you, it is not an airborne virus.  It does not live long outside the body.  It would never stay alive as it circulated throughout a plane for example.  What is at issue here is what constitutes an "airborne virus" and that definition is a term of art.


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## VegasBella (Oct 13, 2014)

MommaBear said:


> 40,0000 people die of the FLU in the US every year. Where's the outrage? The panic?


The familiar is simply less scary than the unfamiliar.

But this is why I got a flu shot as soon as it was available. My whole family is vaccinated against the flu every year. We're not going to be responsible for spreading a VPD and killing other people through negligence.



Talent312 said:


> The next true pandemic would be as bad as (like) the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages -- in which one estimate says half of Europe died in 4 years -- but (this time) would likely involve an antibiotic-resistant bacteria that became airborne.



I agree. It will be due most likely to complacency. There are STILL tons of people who don't wash their hands frequently enough, who don't get vaccines, who don't properly cover their coughs and sneezes, and who misuse antibiotics. In addition, we have a huge problem with antibiotic/antifungal use among farmed animals which could easily result in an anti-microbial resistant zoonotic disease.


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 14, 2014)

U.S. CDC Head Criticized for Blaming 'Protocol Breach' as Nurse Gets Ebola - By Julie Steenhuysen/ Health/ Reuters.com

"Some healthcare experts are bristling at the assertion by a top U.S. health official that a “protocol breach” caused a Dallas nurse to be infected with Ebola while caring for a dying patient, saying the case instead shows how far the nation’s hospitals are from adequately training staff to deal with the deadly virus..."


Richard


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## Maple_Leaf (Oct 14, 2014)

*Ebola Vaccine*



MULTIZ321 said:


> U.S. CDC Head Criticized for Blaming 'Protocol Breach' as Nurse Gets Ebola - By Julie Steenhuysen/ Health/ Reuters.com
> 
> "Some healthcare experts are bristling at the assertion by a top U.S. health official that a “protocol breach” caused a Dallas nurse to be infected with Ebola while caring for a dying patient, saying the case instead shows how far the nation’s hospitals are from adequately training staff to deal with the deadly virus..."
> 
> ...



Good news, the Canadians have an Ebola vaccine in clinical trials that is 100% effective in preventing the spread of Ebola in animal trials.  Of course it won't cure patients that are already sick and won't prevent infection of persons afraid to receive the vaccine.


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## Tia (Oct 15, 2014)

Second health care worker from the same facility announced 

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-diagnosed-in-second-dallas-nurse-105542930.html


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## Aussiedog (Oct 15, 2014)

*self care on the plane*

I fly from the US to Amsterdam once a month.  The one change I have noticed, just recently, is that many more passengers are wiping down their seats, tray tables, windows and video consoles with sanitizing wipes than ever before.  

Someone made a great point the other day during one of those CNN talk-about-it-forever programs.  By the time the CDC finishes their screen of everyone as they arrive in the US on any plane, the plane will have gone on to its next stop.  They have not yet figured out how to match the concern with the people to the flight schedules.  And since plane interiors are not wiped down between flights, you see more people doing it themselves.  

Ann


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## Miss Marty (Oct 15, 2014)

*An Unhealthy Lifestyle*

RE: The one change I have noticed, just recently, is that many more passengers are wiping down their seats, tray tables, windows and video consoles with sanitizing wipes than ever before.  

If we could only get the staff that work at public places such as hotels, timeshares and restaurants etc do a better job of cleaning we might be able to cut down on the spread of (flu) various germs. 

Remember, to always check the air conditioner/furnace filter
when you first check in.  You would not believe how dirty 
the filter was in our house at The Reserve at Summer Bay!

How often do you see people use the same paper towels
or rag to wipe off tables & chairs at fast food restaurants?


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## bogey21 (Oct 15, 2014)

I can't understand why US airlines haven't stopped flying to and from the primarily infected countries in Africa.  Air France and British Airways have. Why hasn't our Government banned such flights?  It didn't take them long to ban flights to Israel when they were concerned that bombs might fall on Ben Gurion Airport.  We are past the might stage with Ebola.

George


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## persia (Oct 15, 2014)

Do US airlines fly into West Africa? I thought that pretty much disappeared with Pan Am...


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## Miss Marty (Oct 15, 2014)

*Dallas nurse with Ebola traveled Dallas to Cleveland via Frontier Flight 1143*

The second Dallas hospital worker afflicted with Ebola was on a flight from Cleveland the day prior to her diagnosis, officials said.

The Centers for Disease Control and Frontier Airlines have confirmed the woman flew on Frontier Flight 1143 to Dallas/Fort Worth Airport on October 13. Family identified her to ABC News as Amber Vinson.

Authorities are asking all 132 passengers aboard the flight to call the CDC at 1-800-232-4636 to arrange for follow-ups and determine possible risk.


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## Aussiedog (Oct 15, 2014)

persia said:


> Do US airlines fly into West Africa? I thought that pretty much disappeared with Pan Am...



Sure - JFK direct Ghana and Ghana direct JFK via Delta is one example of a regular route to west Africa.

Ann


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## Tia (Oct 16, 2014)

http://www.today.com/health/dallas-nurse-we-never-talked-about-ebola-thomas-eric-duncan-2D80220579

Interview on TODAY SHOW with Dallas nurse , listen to the video of the interview..........


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## Miss Marty (Oct 16, 2014)

*Texas and Ohio*

Concern about Ebola nurse’s Frontier Airlines
flight prompts school closings in two states.


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## ace2000 (Oct 16, 2014)

Ebola fears reach new level in America...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...test-positive-ebola-boarded-flight-fever.html


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## VegasBella (Oct 16, 2014)

Critical information about Ebola
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I#t=12


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## persia (Oct 16, 2014)

Oh wow, looks like Delta is becoming the new PanAm. Thanks mate.



Aussiedog said:


> Sure - JFK direct Ghana and Ghana direct JFK via Delta is one example of a regular route to west Africa.
> 
> Ann


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## artringwald (Oct 16, 2014)

We have enjoyed getting great discounts on cruises in the months following  cruise disasters. Now we can look forward to all kinds of travel discounts as the media hype over Ebola puts many into a panic. DW and myself must have very robust immune systems, having been exposed to 6 grandchildren attending 6 different schools, and we will not be cancelling any of our travel plans.

Seriously, I do feel compassion for all the people affected by this terrible disease. Since it is only spread by direct contact, it should be easier to contain than the D68 virus that swept through this country in just a couple of weeks.


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## Larry M (Oct 16, 2014)

*Did you forget SARS?*



Beaglemom3 said:


> I think that this temperature taking at airports is lame at best, misleading at worst.
> 
> Right now, I am not concerned with domestic flights. That is, as/of this post.
> 
> If the virus mutates or the vector changes,  it could be very, very, very bad.



You make some very good points regarding different transmission vectors. But you fail to recognize the efficacy of mass airport temperature screening. The SARS epidemic in ROC (Taiwan) in 2004 was successfully kept from spreading to the rest of the world by two measures.

One was quarantine. I was in the Chang Kai Shek airport outside Taipei waiting for my flight back to the US when I picked up an English language local newspaper and read about this new disease, SARS, which seemed to be dangerous. There were just a few reported cases. Right after I arrived at home, all travel was cancelled for six months. (I did a lot of midnight business by phone during that period.)

The other was temperatures. They set up monitors using infrared cameras and false coloration. If a traveler's ears appeared red, he was pulled aside for a physician's assessment.

Now, there are a few things to consider when comparing SARS to Ebola. First, of course, we're looking at a disease in a first world country versus one in third world countries. Second, quarantine doesn't seem to exist in the African nations and travel bans seem to be unpopular with the US government. And third, an elevated temperature seems to have been an immediate symptom of a SARS patient. Ebola patients may be asymptomatic but contagious for up to 21 days after exposure.

Nevertheless, while temperature screening is not guaranteed to detect all latent Ebola carriers, it may get some, perhaps enough to keep the virus from crossing the epidemic threshold here. And besides that, it gives the government something to show when challenged: "What are you doing about this?"

Larry


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## Larry M (Oct 16, 2014)

*Why not take the Amtrak Southwest Chief?*



sptung said:


> I am with you. I hate flying and breathing everyone else's germs and avoid flying IF I could.  For that reason, I drive 10 hours from Northern California to Las Vegas area every month instead of flying.  Ebola situation just worsens the germophobia in me.  I am flying to Kansas City for a conference tomorrow and back next week and I am dreading it more than before. If I could drive I would but it's 24-hr driving non-stop so I really do not have a choice other than not go, which is really not a good option either.



Why not take the Amtrak Southwest Chief?

Larry


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## VacationForever (Oct 17, 2014)

Larry M said:


> Why not take the Amtrak Southwest Chief?
> 
> Larry



There are no Amtrak options from Northern CA to Las Vegas or Kansas City, Missouri which I just got back from.  I wish US have railway options all over the country.  Unfortunately, politicians are too busy fighting over the wrong things everyday.  They should work together on doing what is best for the country and I do believe an extensive train system is one thing that will benefit everyone.  

Back to the topic, I hope everyone who was on the side of the fence where they felt ebola was just a hype rethink their position.  The major difference between flu and ebola is high survival rate of flu vs. 70% fatality rate for ebola.  I read a couple of TUGger posted that ebola is only spread through direct contact which is also inaccurate.  If you think ebola is like AIDS, you are also wrong.  In my current field, we sometimes take care of AIDs patients.  Not one staff has had any fear of working with them.  We do not put on a full protective gown.  All that we do is put on gloves and none of us has been infected.


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## qwerty (Oct 17, 2014)

*Ebola scare*

Tomorrow, we will be flying through Atlanta to Fort Lauderdale for two weeks in the Keys. As of now, we are not too concerned. Because of previous concerns such as the flu, we do not eat anything on the plane and only drink bottled water. We also try to make sure that we are mindful of anyone sneezing or what we touch. We are not paranoid but just want to be careful. Between our two weeks in Florida, we will be going on a four day cruise. Of course, way in the back of my mind, I know that anything can happen on a cruise. We will definitely try not to watch the news too much and just enjoy our trip. But hopefully all will go well and I'll leave another post in about a month.


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## flyinlow (Oct 17, 2014)

Here is a short video with some helpful tips on staying ebola free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7igspeY9Fo


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## Maple_Leaf (Oct 17, 2014)

*Ebola and the Canadian border*

Some Ontario public health units are expressing concerns about Ebola entering Canada from U.S. land border crossings.  Ontario is ramping up its Ebola preparedness, based on lessons from the SARS epidemic and the problems with Ebola in the U.S.


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## TUGBrian (Oct 17, 2014)

annnnd...now available on cruise ships!

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hospit...la-samples-caribbean-cruise/story?id=26263642


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## Talent312 (Oct 17, 2014)

Let's see... We have a total of 3 people diagnosed with Ebola.
So now were getting Ebola news 24-7 with a sprinkling of ISIS.

Lest we forget, the leading causes of death are:
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
-- _(Source: CDC 2010 Data)_


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 17, 2014)

One of the World's Biggest Chocolate Companies is Very Afraid of Ebola - by Shane Ferro/ Markets/ BusinessInsider.com

"The Ebola outbreak in West Africa threatens to disrupt the world's chocolate supply. 

There's no need to panic quite yet, but there could be a problem if the disease spreads to the Ivory Coast from Liberia, Guinea, or Sierra Leone..."





A map of West Africa


Richard


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## ondeadlin (Oct 17, 2014)

There is no Ebola threat currently to normal, every day Americans.

None.

And folks who think there is look like fools.

Don't look like a fool.  Get a flu shot.  Live your life.  Ignore the television media.  Live your life.


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## pedro47 (Oct 17, 2014)

FDR's ..First Inaugural Address...Declaring "War" on the Great Depression. "The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself."

I am praying that the United States of America and the world countries will "Declarer War on Ebola and stop this Fear."


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## Maple_Leaf (Oct 17, 2014)

*The nightmare continues...*



TUGBrian said:


> annnnd...now available on cruise ships!
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hospit...la-samples-caribbean-cruise/story?id=26263642



...for the poor folks on that cruise ship.  Belize wouldn't let them evacuate the passenger through Belize.  Now Mexico won't let them into Cozumel for their scheduled port visit.  What a nightmare for these passengers!  This ship may end up like the Flying Dutchman, sailing around the Caribbean looking for a port.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 17, 2014)

Maple_Leaf said:


> ...for the poor folks on that cruise ship.  Belize wouldn't let them evacuate the passenger through Belize.  Now Mexico won't let them into Cozumel for their scheduled port visit.  What a nightmare for these passengers!  This ship may end up like the Flying Dutchman, sailing around the Caribbean looking for a port.



And the thing is, at least according to American media reports is that there is no one even exhibiting any symptoms on boards. It amounts to a lot of ignorance on the part of those making the decision. Also a decision that will cost those local economies a lot of money.


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## CarolF (Oct 17, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Also a decision that will cost those local economies a lot of money.



As well as the Cruise Ship travel industry.


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## amycurl (Oct 17, 2014)

40,000 Americans die of the flu every year. 

As an American, if you are worried about ebola or ISIS, the most important things you can do to protect yourself from an untimely demise are to 1) never move furniture alone, 2) get a flu shot, 3) wear a seatbelt, and 4) exercise. But those require most Americans to pro-actively do something (however small) and none of them make particularly compelling 24 news coverage. But, still, the facts are what the facts are.

If you really want to worry about something over which you have no control, the situation in the former Soviet republics is much more terrifying.

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/17/6988377/threats-to-americans-ranked-ebola-isis-russia-furniture


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## LMD (Oct 18, 2014)

*Lysol wipes*

Just be sure to take all precautions. I am already in the habit of bringing Lysol wipes and wiping down tray tables, arms rests and other surfaces in my immediate seat area. It is good health practice as surfaces are not cleaned by the airlines between flights. Also, hand washing, hand washing hand washing. The most basic but most effective way to prevent illness. As a health care worker I sometime may be over the top but I haven't had an illness that needed medical intervention in more than 12 years.  
Lisa


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm a Hazmat-Trained Hospital Worker: Here's What No One Is Telling You About Ebola - by Abby Norman/ Healthcare Writer/ HuffingtonPost.com

Good description of what it's like to wear a Hazmat suit and the issues involved.







Richard


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 18, 2014)

Rick is hazmat trained and is assigned to one of the two hazmat trucks in Denver.  Don't even think the guys assigned to those two rigs are not shaking in their boots--because they are.  

Don't minimize a possible pandemic that could spread throughout the country.  You know math, and so how many people would be affected if a few healthcare workers end up dying from this disease?  The nurses who cared for the first ebola patient took precautions and still contracted the virus.  [I think the] health-care workers [should] be covered head-to-toe in protective garb and not exposed.    

Even more are infected in the care of those affected people.  Think of the families at risk. We are not talking about flu.  We are talking about a virus that has no inoculation available.   

Don't make light of this possible pandemic.  Think of an infected person in an airport or at Disneyworld.  Since we just got back from Disneyworld yesterday, it's definitely on my mind. 

You can all make fun of the hysteria on the cruise ship, but if you were on the cruise ship with those whom you love, you would be concerned.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 18, 2014)

Jimmy Fallon's "Thank you notes" from last night:



_*Thank you, the CDC, or as Americans now call you, the WTF????? *_




-


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## topcop400 (Oct 18, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ....but if you were on the cruise ship with those whom you love, you would be concerned.



[I'm sorry, but political commentary is not permitted on TUG.  I know it's closely related to the topic, but lets try to avoid posting pro/con government posts, so we can leave the thread open.]


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## ondeadlin (Oct 18, 2014)

amycurl said:


> As an American, if you are worried about ebola or ISIS, the most important things you can do to protect yourself from an untimely demise are to 1) never move furniture alone, 2) get a flu shot, 3) wear a seatbelt, and 4) exercise. But those require most Americans to pro-actively do something (however small) and none of them make particularly compelling 24 news coverage. But, still, the facts are what the facts are.



Amen, sister.


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## moonstone (Oct 18, 2014)

There is a glimmer of hope.  http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ing_experimental_ebola_vaccine_on_monday.html

Lets hope it is effective & can be produced in mass quantities quickly.

~Diane


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## waffles77 (Oct 18, 2014)

Eleven of my family members went out a Royal Caribbean cruise that left last Sunday from Galveston. Before they left my mom was worried about traveling to Texas - at that point it was only the man from Africa that had been confirmed to have had ebola. I gave her an eye roll and a 'you'll be fine, there is nothing to worry about'.

Now that there is the Carnival ship that left from GALVESTON with the lab worker that is quarantined, I know that she will be even more freaked out. 

If ebola was transmitted easily, I think we as a country could be a lot of trouble. There was one hospital with a patient that had it that passed it along to one nurse that then decided to travel around the country and another worker that could have 'potentially' had it that went out on a 4000 passenger cruise. The math on how fast it could be spread it amazing!

I am not trying to worry those who are already worried, but just thinking about quickly we all could cross a diseases path.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 19, 2014)

Talent312 said:


> Let's see... We have a total of 3 people diagnosed with Ebola.
> So now were getting Ebola news 24-7 with a sprinkling of ISIS.
> 
> Lest we forget, the leading causes of death are:
> ...



Yeah- well I can't catch heart disease from someone else. No matter what a picture of health you might be- you exercise, you don't smoke, you don't drink, you eat right, you got your flu shot, you're lucky to not have been in a devastating accident, no cancer or heart disease- if a person with Ebola spits on you- your nice healthy body is now dead. Let's see- you have a choice between sitting in a room with a fat person with diabetes or a skinny person with Ebola. What room do you choose?


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## ondeadlin (Oct 19, 2014)

The original victim flew to the U.S. on a plane - how many people on that plane have come down with Ebola?  None.

The nurse flew to Ohio on a plane - how many people on that plan came down with Ebola?  None.

Ebola is extremely difficult to get.  You cannot sit in a room with someone with Ebola and get Ebola just from sitting in the room - you would have to come in contact with their bodily fluids.

It's almost as if people prefer to panic rather than accept these facts.


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## Tia (Oct 19, 2014)

CDC says

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

"Ebola dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature."


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 19, 2014)

Concern and informed/quiet vigilance does not equate to panic. _Panic _is overstating it and presumptive.


I work/consult in MegaPharma's vaccines & diagnostics division.

 The experts; virologists, epidemiologists, immunologists - the guys that are working on the actual vaccine to this virus itself,  folks that I work with, have a healthy (no pun intended) respect for this virus and its spread. When they do, I take notice.


My concern, for myself and others, is not so much at being at risk for infection, but what happens to the infrastructure if a pandemic occurs. 

Having been in a leadership role on a Pandemic team twice, it's about the "what ifs" and how best to anticipate them. For me, now is the time to consider the "what ifs". Watchful waiting in a way.

The CDC has not instilled a sense of comfort.

Comparing chronic/manageable illnesses to a virus with an astounding viral load is not a reasoned comparison. It's a bit of a non sequitur.

We all approach these things differently. This is mine. YMMV. 



0


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## VegasBella (Oct 19, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Yeah- well I can't catch heart disease from someone else.


It doesn't pass like a virus passes but it does appear to be "socially contagious". 

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20070725/is-obesity-contagious
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...oups-of-friends-obesity-is-contagious/259620/
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...l_plague_stir_in_the_human_superorganism.html


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## VegasBella (Oct 19, 2014)

Talent312 said:


> Let's see... We have a total of 3 people diagnosed with Ebola.
> So now were getting Ebola news 24-7 with a sprinkling of ISIS.
> 
> Lest we forget, the leading causes of death are:
> ...



Agreed. We need more emphasis on the leading causes of death and the methods of preventing them. Less emphasis on scary, but unlikely events. 

The take away from the stats above is that *you can do more good for your health by doing things that prevent the above.*

Examples: 

-prevent heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke by eating plant-based, exercise, don't smoke, avoid some chemicals, etc

-prevent respiratory diseases, flu, pnemonia by not smoking, hand-washing, getting vaccinated, doing cardio exercise, avoid allergens and sick people, etc

-prevent accidents by wearing seatbelts and helmets, driving slowly, double-checking prescription meds, putting grips in bathtub and using bathmat, etc


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 19, 2014)

*Ask Smithsonian:What's the Difference Between Viruses and Bacteria?*

Ask Smithsonian: What's the Difference Between Viruses and Bacteria? - Ask Smithsonian/ Videos/ Smithsonian.com

The answer…and why you should care (1:18)


Richard


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## Passepartout (Oct 19, 2014)

Ever notice that it seems that the people worrying about Ebola mutating into an airborne pathogen, seem to be the same people who don't believe in evolution?

Jim


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 19, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Ever notice that it seems that the people worrying about Ebola mutating into an airborne pathogen, seem to be the same people who don't believe in evolution?
> 
> Jim



:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh, this too,   


Had my guffaw for the day. Thanks !


9


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## ondeadlin (Oct 19, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Concern and informed/quiet vigilance does not equate to panic. _Panic _is overstating it and presumptive.
> 
> We all approach these things differently. This is mine. YMMV.



That's fine.  Just realize it's coming off as complete panic and an attempt to panic others to at least one reader here.  Obviously there's a lot of subjectively here, but that's how you're coming off to me.

And, as I said, not a single victim from those planes.  That says a lot more than all your attempts to explain why you're posting what you're posting.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 19, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> And, as I said, not a single victim from those planes.  That says a lot more than all your attempts to explain why you're posting what you're posting.



Again, a non sequitur.

No need to panic.   Panic others ? What was it that set off your panic ? Which post ? Information should not be a reason for you to panic so.

Best to be informed than to panic .


-


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## ondeadlin (Oct 19, 2014)

I think you need someone to explain both _non sequitur_ and the threat posed by Ebola to you … and I'll leave it at that.


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 19, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Rick is hazmat trained and is assigned to one of the two hazmat trucks in Denver.  Don't even think the guys assigned to those two rigs are not shaking in their boots--because they are.
> 
> Don't minimize a possible pandemic that could spread throughout the country.  You know math, and so how many people would be affected if a few healthcare workers end up dying from this disease?  The nurses who cared for the first ebola patient took precautions and still contracted the virus.  [I think the] health-care workers [should] be covered head-to-toe in protective garb and not exposed.
> 
> ...




Just read this. Thank Rick and his crew for their service and willingness to do this.



-


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 19, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> I think you need someone to explain both _non sequitur_ and the threat posed by Ebola to you … and I'll leave it at that.



All I know about non sequiturs, I learned in law school.

Then, those who are working on the vaccine for Ebola educated me on the virus.

Thanks for asking.

Yes, do leave it at that or re-read, with comprehension, my posts. No need for you to panic, just a need to be educated on this.


0


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## VegasBella (Oct 21, 2014)

Panic:

1. "A teacher at Strong Elementary School was placed on a 21-day paid leave of absence after parents told the school board they were concerned that she might have been exposed to Ebola during a trip to Dallas for an educational conference," the Portland Press Herald recently reported.

2. Two students who moved from Rwanda—where there have been zero cases of Ebola—are being kept home from school in Burlington County, New Jersey, for 21 days in response to concerns from parents. Rwanda "is about 2,600 miles away from the closest affected country in West Africa," notes Philadelphia's local Fox station. "That's about as close as Seattle, Washington, is to Philadelphia. But for some parents it really doesn't matter."

3. Officials at Navarro College in Texas cited Ebola as a basis for refusing admission to two Nigerian students. Nigeria has been extraordinarily effective in fighting its recent outbreak, which included just 20 confirmed cases—so extraordinary, in fact, that as of today, the World's Health Organization officially declared the country Ebola-free. 

4. News Photographer magazine reported last week that "three-time Pulitzer Prize-winning photojournalist Michel du Cille of The Washington Post, who returned from covering the Ebola crisis in Liberia 21 days ago and who is symptom free, was asked by Syracuse University officials today not to come to campus, where he was scheduled to participate in a journalism program." 

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/10/ebola-america-panic-hysteria


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## VegasBella (Oct 21, 2014)

> In 2012, more than 33,000 Americans died on the highways. In some recent years, the flu has killed tens of thousands. Alcohol is associated with some 70,000 deaths annually, weight problems with more than 300,000, and smoking with over 400,000.
> 
> Even a single one of these preventable deaths is a tragedy. But the risks they pose do not greatly trouble most people in their daily lives. What's worrying many people much more these days is the far lower risk, at least in the U.S. and Europe, of contracting Ebola.[...]
> 
> ...



http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-10-20/why-ebola-is-scarier-than-it-should-be

This also explains why so many more parents fear kidnapping than auto-accidents even though their child is FAR MORE LIKELY to die from an auto accident than to even go missing due to kidnapping, much less so to die from kidnapping. And thus, this is why parents invest so little into proper carseat use. The VAST MAJORITY of car seats are installed IMPROPERLY: http://www.nbc4i.com/story/20748483/safety-officials-75-percent-of-carseats-installed-incorrectly


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## Talent312 (Oct 21, 2014)

I heard an interesting statistic today:
Over 70,000 peep die each year from infections they got at a hospital.
We should worry more about visiting a hospital, than someone from Liberia.
_... channeling Sheldon Cooper, "Big Bang."_


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## Miss Marty (Oct 24, 2014)

*Still, officials are warning people not to panic!*

October, 2014 - Fears are soaring after New York City got news of a doctor testing positive for Ebola on Thursday. And on top of the diagnosis, it was revealed that 33 year old doctor went bowling and rode the subway before he came down with a fever Thursday morning. As a result, three people are quarantined - one of those people being the doctor's fiancée.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 24, 2014)

The first fatality in America, Thomas Eric Duncan, arrived here on September 20.  He went to the ER on September 25, but was turned away.  He then returned to the hospital September 28.

So Duncan was walking around in America, with Ebola, for eight days between September 20 and September 28. 

And how many people caught Ebola from him prior to his hospitalization?

Zero, of course.  The guy was walking around for eight days and no one caught Ebola from him.  

That's the story the media should be telling, i.e. that Ebola is very difficult (almost impossible) to get from anything but intimate contact with bodily fluids.

That story, of course, doesn't drive ratings.


----------

