# Wyndham is just Unforgiveable



## melva1 (Jul 1, 2015)

Help!!!  I am new to TUGS and I don’t know if I am using this right or how to begin this.  I’ll try from the beginning but you can skip to current on the next paragraph.  My wife and I have been working 14 hours a day/7 days a week for about 17 years running 2 businesses and a full time job.  I know it is unhealthy, but she loves it (not me).  My wife and I will soon be 62 years old so we will be retiring from our full time jobs and end one of the businesses by the end of the year.  Because we were working so hard, we even made a worse mistake by buying into Wyndham in 2008 thinking that a vacation restort would help us.  Well we were unable to use the property for 3 years, not 1 point so they all expired.  So in 2011 we went to Wyndham and the lady there said I have to buy another one as this new one has the First Right of Refusal policy in it and Wyndham would take them back for 25% of the cost after a year.  I would lose ~$11.5K.  That is a lot for never using the property and I was leery, but she was the “expert” and I really wanted to get rid of the property. Talking about salt in the wounds, you know she was lying.  B-tch!  Wyndham would not consider taking anything back even though I had never used the property.  So both the salespeople and corporate are crooked.  A legal scam I’d say.  No words can describe the frustration of losing $50K for nothing and the hate I have for Wyndham.

So now it is 2015 and I have used the properties today (7/1/15) because it is our 30th anniversary for the 4th time for a total of 13 days after 7 years ownership.  Sucks doesn’t it.  Maybe we can use it more often in our retirement but at 62 years old, how many more times are we really going to be using it? Anyway, yesterday (6/30/15) we went to a “membership update” meeting that was supposed to last an hour (I blew the last 2 ones off).  It did last an hour, but the rep took us to his office where it lasted another 5 hours to go over our account and correct any deficiencies.  I told him the above and he said that it is “water over the dam” that I needed to make adjustments to the account for our and our heirs sake.  I needed to buy another 105,000 points to bring the account to VIP membership (from 308,000 to 413,000 points), and take both deeded properties and convert them to all points (no deeds) by going into the Wyndham Access program.  That will do the following:

1. We can finally end our Wyndham ownership and have Wyndham take the points back just by sending a written letter to Wyndham.  Otherwise those properties’s maintenance fees will keep going up and last “forever” well into our 80s or 90s.  Then when we both die, our heirs will have to take up the properties.  That is why the Access program was started; to stop burdening owners and their heirs with ever increasing maintenance fees.

2.  Because so many of my points are being not used and lost, that once I am in the VIP membership, they can be converted them to pay for the maintenance fees.

3.  Since it is now based on points and not deeded properties, we will have the same priority as the deeded owners but for all the properties not just the deeded ones.

This seems like blackmail because now I have to buy this one to consolidate and correct the “inherit mistakes” of the other two.  But my wife liked our sales rep and thought he was telling the truth and she will stick up and defend our 3 children (all grown with families) by not having these timeshares “dumped” on them when we are gone as our kids don’t want them.  So we signed the agreement yesterday which, of course, had to be done to get the 2008 rate, but it still is costing me about $25K.  I am not made of money.  As it is, I am living pay check to pay check and will retire with over $100K in debt thanks to Wyndham and my share of college expenses.  Now I am adding another cost burden even though some of the maintenance fees will be paid for.  I still have to get a $25K loan somewhere even though I don’t know where I’ll get the money to pay the monthly payment from.

So my big question (highest priority) is for #1 above.  The sales rep is telling me is that there is no way out of these properties.  Is that true?  I can see I have to pay maintenance fees until I get rid of the properties, but he is telling me there is no way to get rid of them and my heirs will inherit them.  How can that be?  Is this true?  Is there another way out of these properties?  Do I have to succumb to their blackmail?  Please help me.

Tom


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## Inhislove (Jul 1, 2015)

Don't do it! I know more knowledgeable people will pipe in here, but your heirs aren't required to maintain a timeshare unless their names are on the deed. I don't know if your estate could be required to pay maintenance fees until settled, but I think there are articles about such things here on tug. 

I do know people can get great use out of Wyndham...I would focus on that, or on giving it away if you own the deed on the properties you have. But don't buy anything else!

I'm so sorry for your horrible experience. Don't trust what anyone says in a timeshare meeting- only what the paperwork says.


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## sjsharkie (Jul 1, 2015)

Don't listen to the salespeople.  They will spout lies until they get you to sign on the dotted line.

Take a deep breath...

If you signed something yesterday, you still have time to rescind assuming rescission of a conversion is allowed in the laws of the state where you signed.  Look at your paperwork and follow the instructions -- generally send the rescind notice postmarked prior to the deadline via certified mail.  DO THIS NOW and then see the following items:

1.  I don't know what you own.  You will not likely be able to sell it if there is a mortgage (you talk about $100K debt due to Wyndham so I assume there is).  Weigh the options of a strategic default -- your credit will likely take a hit.  But you can stop paying and not let Wyndham get another dime out of you.  There could be tax and financial implications, so contact a professional advisor if you need additional help.

2.  Your heirs will not be required to inherit the property.  Even if you were to will it to them, they could refuse the inheritance.

Good luck.

-ryan


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## Beefnot (Jul 1, 2015)

Wow, that's a lot. 

First, RESCIND the deal immediately. You are being fed a load and paying $25k for that load in the process. Do not put another CENT into buying more points. Handing over your deeds and converting to Club Wyndham does not "end" your Wyndham ownership, it just changes it. Besides, it makes no sense to pay $25k for the option to walk away. I would much rather deal with a credit hit by just walking away, and pocketing the $25k. Especially at 62 years of age.

More importantly, there is ALWAYS a way out of your properties. Aside from defaulting and getting foreclosed on, which I just alluded to, you can sell or GIVE AWAY your timeshares to others. Just think, even if your timeshares are worthless, you could offer someone money to just take them off your hands. A lot less than $25k. A LOT LESS. Do some research on TUG of your ownerships and figure out what your timeshares are worth. They may be worth a few $.

A lot smarter Wyndham folk than me will likely give you much more specific feedback shortly. But at any rate, please for the sake of all that is holy, please please please RESCIND and keep that $25k. Not doing so is akin to wiping your hiney with 250 Ben Franklins.  Actually many more since it sounds like you'd have to finance it some way.


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## Passepartout (Jul 1, 2015)

You can sell the ownerships, If it should come to it, no one is forced to inherit anything. Your heirs and executor should be made aware of this. Your attorney can provide the form that tells Wyndham that there is no heir willing to take the ownership. Eventually they get it and the deed goes away.

Congratulations on your upcoming retirement. I hope you can do some traveling and use those timeshares. There is an active group of Wyndham owners here on TUG, who can guide you on getting the most of what you own.

If you are curious about other resorts you can exchange into, you can actually join TUG ($15 yr) and have access to the reviews by TUGgers of thousands of resorts worldwide. Info is on the tug2.net page.

Oh, yes. Did anyone mention that sales weasels for timeshare companies lie? They do. Shamelessly. So come here for truth.

*AND RESCIND ANY PURCHASE YOU'VE MADE RECENTLY!* The instructions are on the signature page of your contract. You can get anything they offer at resale for pennies on the dollar.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim


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## breezez (Jul 2, 2015)

*I am new to TUG BBS and Have Been Looking at Wyndham*

There are people like me out there looking to pick up 308,000 points for little to nothing and don't mind the maintenance fees as long as the timeshare is paid off and free and clear.

So post what your wanting to get rid of in the market place if it is free and clear and paid off.   If your just wanting out of it put it up like others for $1.00 and state who pays closing costs and transfer fee's and I am sure you will find an interested party in short order.

BUT DO NOT PAY $25,000 more for stuff you already don't want and has no value to you based on your current usage.


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## sue1947 (Jul 2, 2015)

First:  rescind the 25K immediately.  
Second:  realize that Wyndham has a F rating from the BBB due to their slimy sales tactics; they lie for a living.  Your wife may think he/she is a nice person who cares about you; not true.   That 'nice' sales person doesn't make any money unless they convince somebody to buy something Wyndham values at 25% of their sales price.  The rest is marketing.  Stay away from any sales/owner update.   They have lied to you each time you purchased more. STOP.  
Once that is done, come back and tell us exactly what you own.  This is posted in the Worldmark forum; do you own Worldmark or Wyndham?   It sounds like Wyndham.  

If you aren't using what you have, stop buying more.   Either learn to use what you have or do a search on Ovation to learn about Wyndham's buy back program.  In addition, you can post it in the Marketplace here and try to sell it.  

You will NOT get any of your 'investment' back.  It's lost money so don't spend any time trying not to 'lose' any of it.  You might be able to sell, but you are going to be shocked at how little you can get.  This is not like real estate; there is no equity.  When the recession hit, the first thing people wanted to get rid of were their timeshares and those on-going maintenance fees.  As a result, there were more timeshares than buyers and the market collapsed.  A few years ago, you could buy a Wyndham timeshare for $1 (no that isn't a typo).  I understand the price has come up a little, but don't expect anywhere near what you paid.  

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.  Nobody likes to think they've been taken, but the timeshare industry is full of pretty slimy characters.  However, you've come to the right place for help.   

Sue


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 2, 2015)

Atlantic City or Shawnee...  Which resort?

I own LOTS of Wyndham points and understand the system pretty well...

RESCIND TODAY! You got CONNED again. These sales people are experts at conning one party of the marriage and most likely even have it in YOUR ACCOUNT PROFILE who and HOW to get your wife on their side and YOU then go along....you are their MARK!

You (both of you) have ONLY 1 short window of time to rescind ... SAVE THAT $25,000 for your retirement years. 

2nd point - wasn't your 308K already VIP? It was grandfather as (SILVER) VIP ... buying more points did not MAKE you VIP ... you already brought that same VIP level!!! Unless you had a "Discovery Package" with a 18 month trial period of VIP (temporary VIP) .... totally unlikely as you have been Wyndham Owners for YEARS.... 

If you can afford the $1800-2000 per year (at your OLD point level), Wyndham (and your 308K Silver VIP level without buying another single point) .... would get your several long stays of non-prime vacation weeks using the 25% discount, staying Sunday thru Thursday. Or 2 weeks in a 154K unit or 4 weeks in a 77K weekly unit.


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## 55plus (Jul 2, 2015)

Wyndham sales weasels are a bunch or liars and crooks. Here is the proof:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...cation-resorts

http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycom...ts-a48534.html

http://www.bbb.org/central-florida/b...283/complaints

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...es-c59202.html

http://www.complaintslist.com/timesh...ation-resorts/

There are pages and pages of this stuff online....


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## bnoble (Jul 2, 2015)

Step one: rescind. 

Step two: take a vacation! Even if you are gone for only a long weekend, go! The companies will not evaporate while you are gone.


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## melva1 (Jul 3, 2015)

OMG!  I can't believe the responses in such a short time.  Don't you people sleep?   Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  When I read the response, I just rushed to get my cancellation letter in (also mowed the lawn).  I used DeniseM's (Moderator) rescinding words but modified some as follows:

                      Thomas & Melva St-------
                        Phillipsburg, NJ

                          July 3, 2015

Re: Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc.                     Member # xxxxxxxxxxx
     Contract No. xxxxx-xxxxxxxx


To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is regarding contract #xxxxx-xxxxxxxx purchased on June 30, 2015 at the Wyndham Governor’s Green Resort.  We are exercising our legal right to cancel this contract.  Please confirm my legal rescission in writing.

All correspondence pertaining to this matter can be sent to the address above.


Sincerely,
Melva & Thomas

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I included a copy of the 1st page of the contract and sent this certified mail with return receipt.  We have 7 days to cancel, but got it mailed in 3!    You can't believe how relieved we are, but also how crushed we are to have gotten taken on the other two.  The last one to save some money was turned into a total lost.  Anybody know if I can sue Wyndham for fraud because the they sold me that second one?  Kind of hard to say I need to prove it when I never used the first timeshare before.

Anyway, thank you all that responded!  You are truly a blessing.  Thanks for saving me from Wyndham (they are truly evil).  I will have to come here more often to see how to best use our timeshare more often, well especially after we retire.

Tom (& Melva)


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## melva1 (Jul 3, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Atlantic City or Shawnee...  Which resort?
> The first one is Shawnee, Poconos, PA; the second one is Towers on the Grove, Myrtle Beach, SC
> 
> RESCIND TODAY! You got CONNED again. Done.  Thanks!
> ...


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## melva1 (Jul 3, 2015)

Atlantic City or Shawnee... Which resort?
The first one is Shawnee, Poconos, PA; the second one is Towers on the Grove, Myrtle Beach, SC

RESCIND TODAY! You got CONNED again. Done. Thanks!

2nd point - wasn't your 308K already VIP? It was grandfather as (SILVER) VIP ... . Well the top right of my Wyndham access says, "Welcome, Melva
CLUB WYNDHAM® Silver Owner. It used to say VIP but that may have been that they give a one time 154,000 points. OMG! It says that I have 413,000 points REMAINING. They gave me the points already. Maybe I should buy a resaled timeshare now and maybe Wyndham will give me the credit like I saw in one of the articles?  Well that is ok. I've had enough. Tom


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## Ty1on (Jul 4, 2015)

melva1 said:


> Atlantic City or Shawnee... Which resort?
> The first one is Shawnee, Poconos, PA; the second one is Towers on the Grove, Myrtle Beach, SC
> 
> RESCIND TODAY! You got CONNED again. Done. Thanks!
> ...



Silver is VIP.  I wouldn't touch those extra points.  I don't know if use of them would nullify your rescission.


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## melva1 (Jul 4, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> Silver is VIP.  I wouldn't touch those extra points.  I don't know if use of them would nullify your rescission.



Ok.  Silver = VIP. Thanks.  Yes, I won't touch them, just in case.  But like I said before, after 7 years of ownership, I've only used the timeshare 4 times for a total of 13 days.  I've never exceeded the 1st timeshare points of 154,000 in any year so I doubt I will even touch the 2nd and now this 3rd (which should be cancelled shortly).  I will see if I can use all my points from now on since I will be retiring.  If not, I will have to get rid of one of them.  We will just see.  Anyway, I (we) work 14/7 and I'm far behind on my work since we took off for the week (30th anniversay).  I have quarterly payroll and sales taxes due in a couple weeks.  Thanks for all your help.

Tom


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## Ty1on (Jul 4, 2015)

melva1 said:


> Ok.  Silver = VIP. Thanks.  Yes, I won't touch them, just in case.  But like I said before, after 7 years of ownership, I've only used the timeshare 4 times for a total of 13 days.  I've never exceeded the 1st timeshare points of 154,000 in any year so I doubt I will even touch the 2nd and now this 3rd (which should be cancelled shortly).  I will see if I can use all my points from now on since I will be retiring.  If not, I will have to get rid of one of them.  We will just see.  Anyway, I (we) work 14/7 and I'm far behind on my work since we took off for the week (30th anniversay).  I have quarterly payroll and sales taxes due in a couple weeks.  Thanks for all your help.
> 
> Tom



If it hasn't bothered you to pay the MFs all these years, there are ways to use the points while still only taking a week.  You could stay in a Presidential Unit, for example, instead of a lower point unit.  You work hard and earn the right to treat yourself when you DO get a chance to vacate.  I know people that pool their points to stay in a Presidential unit every other year instead of a 1 or 2 BR every year.  As many points as you have, you could spend a week in a fantastic room in a fantastic resort in Hawaii in prime time every other year, either through Wyndham or RCI.

The points aren't without value....you won't have to completely give a contract away if you want to divest yourself of it.  You won't get anywhere near what you paid for it, but neither will you have to pay to get rid of it.

The bottom line is that you work hard, have paid for this timeshare, and should set aside time to reap some rewards of your labor.


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## Beefnot (Jul 4, 2015)

Heck, just rent out the points to cover the MFs instead of letting them waste away. There are probably reputable TUGgers on this board who will rent out your points for you.


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## melva1 (Jul 4, 2015)

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham sales weasels are a bunch or liars and crooks. Here is the proof:
> 
> http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...cation-resorts
> 
> ...



I believe you.  But these links are no long valid.  They all lead to "Page Not Found".


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## melva1 (Jul 4, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> Heck, just rent out the points to cover the MFs instead of letting them waste away. There are probably reputable TUGgers on this board who will rent out your points for you.



Well I didn't want to waste the points, but I did try to rent them out with ITA Timeshare; and you guessed it, $1500 wasted for these scammers to rent or sell it out.  It "turned me off" after that.  Seemed everything in this industry is a SCAM.  Well I did't know about TUGs and really don't know about renting out here or in Tug2.  I paid the $15 for a year, but we are retiring, I don't think I will be losing points anymore for awhile.  I will consider the rental when I can't use them anymore.  Thanks for the info.


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## melva1 (Jul 4, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> If it hasn't bothered you to pay the MFs all these years, there are ways to use the points while still only taking a week.  You could stay in a Presidential Unit, for example, instead of a lower point unit.  You work hard and earn the right to treat yourself when you DO get a chance to vacate.  I know people that pool their points to stay in a Presidential unit every other year instead of a 1 or 2 BR every year.  As many points as you have, you could spend a week in a fantastic room in a fantastic resort in Hawaii in prime time every other year, either through Wyndham or RCI.
> 
> The points aren't without value....you won't have to completely give a contract away if you want to divest yourself of it.  You won't get anywhere near what you paid for it, but neither will you have to pay to get rid of it.
> 
> The bottom line is that you work hard, have paid for this timeshare, and should set aside time to reap some rewards of your labor.




Agree.  See previous comment with Beefnot.  Thanks.


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## Timeshare Von (Jul 5, 2015)

Yep rescind immediately (hopefully you have by the time I saw/posted).

I only have a very small 77k points contract that my sister gave to me about 6 or 7 years ago.  We've been able to find ways to use them without having to expand the ownership obligations.

It's not the best, but we've had some nice vacations thanks to this point contract.

Hang in there . . . learn how to best use what you have.  I have been to the "owners' updates" and sure they try to upsell me because I don't own much . . . But I don't need or want much either.


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## Larry M (Jul 5, 2015)

*Another way out*



melva1 said:


> :So now it is 2015 and I have used the properties today (7/1/15) because it is our 30th anniversary for the 4th time for a total of 13 days after 7 years ownership.  Sucks doesn’t it.  Maybe we can use it more often in our retirement but at 62 years old, how many more times are we really going to be using it? Anyway, yesterday (6/30/15) we went to a “membership update” meeting that was supposed to last an hour (I blew the last 2 ones off).  It did last an hour, but the rep took us to his office where it lasted another 5 hours to go over our account and correct any deficiencies.  I told him the above and he said that it is “water over the dam” that I needed to make adjustments to the account for our and our heirs sake.  I needed to buy another 105,000 points to bring the account to VIP membership (from 308,000 to 413,000 points), and take both deeded properties and convert them to all points (no deeds) by going into the Wyndham Access program.



Tom,

Here's another approach you can try. It works by understanding how deeded timeshares work. Wyndham (the developer) runs the programs and promotions, but the actual property is run by an Association. In theory, that's a board of owners like you. They are required to have a sweetheart contract with Wyndham for maintenance and upkeep, but are otherwise independent.

Sometimes you can simply call up the Association (not Wyndham) and say "I'd like to just give back this deeded property. My maintenance fees are paid up to date." I did that with a Wyndham property and the lady just fired right back "Send us a letter with the details and we'll process it. There will be a $150 attorney fee." In your case, you will have to deal with two separate associations.

Cheap price to get out, if you ask me. The full details are listed in this thread.

Good luck with it. Hope this helps.

Larry


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## jmroncamano (Jul 5, 2015)

It sure sounds like the old saying "How can you tell if a  timeshare salesperson is lying?  their lips are moving" is true this time


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## Ty1on (Jul 5, 2015)

Larry M said:


> Tom,
> 
> Here's another approach you can try. It works by understanding how deeded timeshares work. Wyndham (the developer) runs the programs and promotions, but the actual property is run by an Association. In theory, that's a board of owners like you. They are required to have a sweetheart contract with Wyndham for maintenance and upkeep, but are otherwise independent.
> 
> ...



There is no reason to give away a Wyndham points contract.  They have market value.


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## uscav8r (Jul 6, 2015)

Moderator: Please move this to the Wyndham forum as it is related to the Club Wyndham system, not the WorldMark system.


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