# Basic question re trading value



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 28, 2012)

I am still thinking of buying my first timeshare. As I can't access II/RCI etc. it is really hard to get a handle on how difficult exchanges would be. So I am hoping to get some more info here.

How difficult is it to exchange for a Southern California beach summer week (let's say mid to late August)? Let's also assume that a one bedroom (or maybe even a studio) is fine and that I am not too picky regarding which resort it is. What kind of timeshare would I need to own to pull one? Obviously there are no guarantees - just looking for a general idea.

Also, would it be better to go through II or RCI (or some other group) for this?


----------



## bshmerlie (Jul 28, 2012)

I live in Southern California and I have either stayed at or visited just about every timeshare So Cal has to offer.  Believe it or not what you are asking for is very difficult to do. As you can imagine the nice beach resorts during the summer months are at a premium and in high demand.  Having said that ...its hard but not impossible.  If you are truly restricted to two weeks in Aug then I would suggest just renting from an owner.  It would be much easier. The key to a good value timeshare trader is flexibility. If you can open up your playbook to June, July, Aug, or Sept then I would say you have a good chance of getting something you would like every year.  

Another thing you have to consider is that the Grand Pacific resorts have a once every four years rule for non members.  Thats going to limit your options and that was the primary factor in my reason to buy a GPR at Carlsbad Inn.  Very nice resort,  great proximity to the beach and affiliated with RCI.  If you could buy an August week there you'd be very happy....but not likely to come cheap.  

Another resort a little more low key but definately easier to book, and far less cheaper is the Blue Whale in Oceanside.   This is one that I would recommend you stay at first before buying as it does have more of a motel feel but it is very clean and fifteen feet and you are on the sand with no steps involved.  It is one of my favorite beach resorts and it is much easier to exchange into during prime times.  I just exchanged into a studio for July 4th week next year for less than 30,000 -RCI points.  

I could go on and on as many other resorts have their advantages as well . This is just to get you started as a lot of it depends on your budget.


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 28, 2012)

bshmerlie said:


> I live in Southern California and I have either stayed at or visited just about every timeshare So Cal has to offer.  Believe it or not what you are asking for is very difficult to do. As you can imagine the nice beach resorts during the summer months are at a premium and in high demand.  Having said that ...its hard but not impossible.  If you are truly restricted to two weeks in Aug then I would suggest just renting from an owner.  It would be much easier. The key to a good value timeshare trader is flexibility. If you can open up your playbook to June, July, Aug, or Sept then I would say you have a good chance of getting something you would like every year.
> 
> Another thing you have to consider is that the Grand Pacific resorts have a once every four years rule for non members.  Thats going to limit your options and that was the primary factor in my reason to buy a GPR at Carlsbad Inn.  Very nice resort,  great proximity to the beach and affiliated with RCI.  If you could buy an August week there you'd be very happy....but not likely to come cheap.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot! I was afraid that it would be difficult. As I said I am looking to buy a timeshare that will trade well. Most of the other areas we plan on visiting are either off-season during the summer or overbuilt so I don't anticipate too many problems. Southern California would probably the hardest to get into.

Actually, the mf at many of the timeshares in Southern California I have looked at are a bit high which is why I am hesitating to buy there and would would rather exchange. We probably would only visit California every 2 or 3 years anyway...

We are stuck with the school schedule for the foreseeable future - however, we probably could travel all of August and early September (up to about the 10th). 

I was just wondering what kind of trading power it would take to have a good chance for an exchange and whether either II or RCI would be more promising.


----------



## bshmerlie (Jul 28, 2012)

I cant really say about trading power as I use RCI points and points are points.  Youre going to need roughly 60,000 points for a prime resort during a peak time.  One of the best value RCI points traders that I have found is the Grandview in Las Vegas. Get one of the points ones in a peak time and you can get up to 64,000 points for a one bedroom which would have only $344 MFs per year.Hold out until you find the high points ones so your MFs will be lower for that same one bedroom.  

I pay roughly $600 for my GPR so I dont have to worry about the one in four rule, but if you are only going every couple of years that probably wouldn't be an issue for you.


----------



## DaveNV (Jul 28, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> I was just wondering what kind of trading power it would take to have a good chance for an exchange and whether either II or RCI would be more promising.




Trading Power varies based on the deposit, and when it is made.  You'll be very unlikely to exchange an average deposit from just about anywhere for a prime California summer week.  There is just too much demand.

I see two options:  The timeshare owner's mantra is "Buy where you want to vacation."  If you MUST travel during a specific timeframe, buy those specific weeks at a SoCal resort.  That way you'd be guaranteed to get what you want, and if you exchanged to another resort somewhere else, you'd get better trading power.  The cost of the maintenance fees are what it would cost to own there.

The second option has already been mentioned:  Rent from an owner.  You can get the resort you want, when you want, and not be locked into maintenance fees anywhere.  Later on, after you've had more experience with things, you can make an informed choice about buying somewhere.  Remember, it's much easier to get INTO owning a timeshare than it is to get OUT of one.

Regardless of what you decide, keep in mind that the glory days of trading a poor (cheap) week someplace for an awesome week somewhere else are pretty much over.  The exchange companies make too much money renting out those choice deposits, rather than making them available to their members for exchanging.  (But that's a topic for another thread.)

Good luck!

Dave


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 28, 2012)

Well, I don't really expect to get a Southern California beach week in summer with a poor resort (though of course it would be nice).

As I said I am seriously thinking of buying a timeshare in the near future but probably not a Southern California beach week (unless I see something I can't resist). Renting is definitely an option I am considering.

I guess what I was looking for here was more some indication which timeshares MIGHT work i.e. hear from people who did get a CA summer week as an exchange. That would give me a bit more indication of what is needed. My main purpose right now is not the CA summer week (or I would definitely buy there). That is only the most difficult trade I would like (everything else should be fairly easy) and I wanted to get a bit more of an idea how difficult it would be.


----------



## bshmerlie (Jul 28, 2012)

Again I can only speak of RCI but I think points is easier to use versus weeks.  With points you don't have to worry about trading power just whether you have enough points or not. If you dont you can borrow points from the next year or you can buy points off another member for a penny a piece.  So for a trader you are just looking for something that gives you a lot of points for the lowest possible MF.


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 28, 2012)

The OP should consider Worldmark or MROP as these clubs have a large presence in So Cal and a reservation would not incur an exchange fee. Worldmark has the largest So Cal presence but is more expensive.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jul 28, 2012)

Using II or RCI, you would need to budget another $250-$300 per year on Exchange fee plus membership costs.  If you can find a mini system or resort that you will use 2 out of 3 years, it may be worth spending a little more on MF's  for a resort you will use without having to add in the extra expense for a single vacation.  If you plan on getting multiple trades out of one deposit and are somewhat flexible in using multiple weeks it may make sense to buy to exchange.  Renting really is a good option at this time and is the least fuss and effort.


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 28, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> Using II or RCI, you would need to budget another $250-$300 per year on Exchange fee plus membership costs.  If you can find a mini system or resort that you will use 2 out of 3 years, it may be worth spending a little more on MF's  for a resort you will use without having to add in the extra expense for a single vacation.  If you plan on getting multiple trades out of one deposit and are somewhat flexible in using multiple weeks it may make sense to buy to exchange.  Renting really is a good option at this time and is the least fuss and effort.



Well, I am mostly thinking of buying a lockoff unit so as to get at least two weeks out of one mf. Also, I hear a lot about II getaways etc. but of course can't yet use these as I don't own any timeshare yet. 

The renting process makes me a bit nervous which is one reason I am looking to buy. And we would probably alternate between California and the East Coast. However, I am definitely planning on buying a timeshare that I would also use (or at least wouldn't mind using).


----------



## MuranoJo (Jul 29, 2012)

RCI weeks uses the TPU system, which is basically another points program.  Each deposit gets a certain amount of TPUs.  And, for ~$100, RCI gives you the option to combine multiple weeks to get a higher TPU amount for exchanging into more high-demand, high-TPU resorts.  

You could deposit both sides of a 2 BD lockoff, pay to combine the TPUs, and you may have enough to exchange into a high-demand CA beach location.  (Provided you start the search early enough.  I don't exchange into CA, so don't know too much about TPUs required or when the resorts deposit inventory.)

Just another consideration.


----------



## MichaelColey (Jul 29, 2012)

If you're always wanting a summer Southern California beach unit, why not just buy a summer Southern California beach unit?

I'm normally a huge fan of exchanging, but if that's what you're looking for, you might be better suited by owning where you want to stay.


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 29, 2012)

delete duplicate post


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 29, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> If you're always wanting a summer Southern California beach unit, why not just buy a summer Southern California beach unit?
> 
> I'm normally a huge fan of exchanging, but if that's what you're looking for, you might be better suited by owning where you want to stay.



Why buy just 1 - if he buys MROP he would have access to 5 So Cal beach timeshares. Worldmark would give access to 7 plus 1 Wyndham.


----------



## bshmerlie (Jul 29, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Why buy just 1 - if he buys MROP he would have access to 5 So Cal beach timeshares. Worldmark would give access to 7 plus 1 Wyndham.



MROP's CA beach resorts definately have more of an economy feel to them.  Not sure I would be happy to spend money on the airfare to get to one of them.


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 29, 2012)

bshmerlie said:


> MROP's CA beach resorts definately have more of an economy feel to them.  Not sure I would be happy to spend money on the airfare to get to one of them.



You obviously haven't spent a weekend in my Aunt Violet's guest room in Encinitas, just to body surf at Sea Cliff - else those MROP rooms would look pretty durn good to you! :hysterical:


----------



## DaveNV (Jul 29, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> You obviously haven't spent a weekend in my Aunt Violet's guest room in Encinitas, just to body surf at Sea Cliff - else those MROP rooms would look pretty durn good to you! :hysterical:



+1 for MROP:  And maintenance fees are the same no matter where you stay in their system - SoCal beach or wherever. That can be a money saver, for sure, compared to the cost of incredible accommodations at a fancier place.  How much time are you really going to spend hanging around the resort?

Dave


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 29, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> If you're always wanting a summer Southern California beach unit, why not just buy a summer Southern California beach unit?
> 
> I'm normally a huge fan of exchanging, but if that's what you're looking for, you might be better suited by owning where you want to stay.



In that case I would but I really would probably only need one about every three years. I might buy a summer Southern California beach unit if I find one with reasonable mf/low purchase price but otherwise I don't think it would work best for us.


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. I will definitely look into the MROP resorts.


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 29, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Thanks for all the input. I will definitely look into the MROP resorts.



On the resale market they are usually under $1500. (not $15,000) to purchase - they don't come up all the time so be patient. Hold out for an "red every year" membership instead of a "rotator" (red, white, blue) is my advice.

Worldmark is seen in the resale marketplace more often, but is usually $2500 to $3500 for a 7,000 to 10,000 credit contract.  

And all MROP's I've seen are clean and fuctional units - just no granite counter tops - and mid level carpet instead of teak floors.


----------



## DaveNV (Jul 29, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> On the resale market they are usually under $1500. (not $15,000) to purchase - they don't come up all the time so be patient. Hold out for an "red every year" membership instead of a "rotator" (red, white, blue) is my advice.




I got my MROP on eBay for $1.  Red Annual week.   The bargains are definitely out there. YMMV.

Dave


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 29, 2012)

One more quick question: How does MROP work? I looked at the website but didn't really get it. Can you easily exchange within the group?


----------



## Passepartout (Jul 29, 2012)

Wish all you guys would quit with the talking up my private MROP. Yes, it trades internally as well as in VRI*ety. You can also reserve a resort week and do Points For Deposit into RCI Points. Some (not all) MROP resorts are in II as well. They are not the easiest to live with. No online exchanges- you DO have to call them during business hours (MTN time). As mentioned, they are older (read: clean, well located) resorts, but don't expect granite counters, huge flat TVs, ensuite hot tubs and lots of onsite activities. They are about location, not amenities.

Jim


----------



## DaveNV (Jul 29, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> One more quick question: How does MROP work? I looked at the website but didn't really get it. Can you easily exchange within the group?



It may vary some, depending on what you buy, but basically:  If you want to stay at your home resort (based on your ownership) you call them and can make the reservation request up to 20 months in advance. If you want to stay at a different MROP resort, you can call and request up to 18 months out.  Obviously, the sooner you request, the better your chances are of getting what you want.

If you decide to go outside the MROP group, but still stay within the VRI*ety group (the parent management group of MROP that has many more resorts), your reserved MROP week can be deposited with them. You pay an exchange fee to VRI, and you can get one of their resorts.  

And if you want to go totally outside the MROP/VRI system, you reserve an MROP week that is then deposited with RCI, and you're able to exchange to whatever you can get. It puts you right in the heart of RCI, just like any other system.  (I don't know if depositing to II is an option.)

If you have specific questions about MROP, I'd strongly recommend calling them and asking to speak with someone.  I've found them very helpful, and forthcoming with information, even for non-owners.  I talked to them several times before I bought.

Dave


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for the information.

I do have two more quick questions re MROP. Hopefully, someone can help me out with them.

It seems some MROP timeshares are converted to points and some are not. Exactly what impact would that have? If it is not converted I could still reserve the week and deposit it in RCI, correct?

How important is it which MROP timeshare one owns (obviously the timeframe for making a reservation is different). Do they basically go one for one - making it less important which one is owned?

Finally, how difficult is it in general to get a week one wants? Obviously, that would depend on many variables but I am looking for a general idea. We are bound to the school schedule so not too flexible... Generally, we would need something in August to early September.


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 29, 2012)

Actually that's five questions - but who's counting?



Vacationsarefun said:


> Thanks for the information.
> 
> I do have two more quick questions re MROP. Hopefully, someone can help me out with them.
> 
> It seems some MROP timeshares are converted to points and some are not. Exactly what impact would that have? If it is not converted I could still reserve the week and deposit it in RCI, correct?



Some are "converted"to RCI Points MROP charges about $3000 for this "service" - MROP are *NOT* the best way to get RCI Points! In my opinion it is - what's the word - oh "dumb" to convert a perfectly good MROP.



Vacationsarefun said:


> How important is it which MROP timeshare one owns (obviously the timeframe for making a reservation is different). Do they basically go one for one - making it less important which one is owned?


AFAIK - Matters only for ARP (*A*dvanced *R*eservation *P*riority) you get a month or two extra ARP at your home resort(s).



Vacationsarefun said:


> Finally, how difficult is it in general to get a week one wants? Obviously, that would depend on many variables but I am looking for a general idea. We are bound to the school schedule so not too flexible... Generally, we would need something in August to early September.


 18 to 20 months ahead - dead easy. 14 - 18 months pretty easy (the Hawaii and So Cal a bit harder) 9 - 14 months out - hit and miss (but you should be able to get something you like. up to 9 months out - so so - it really depends on what other MROP members consider "the bomb" this year.

Call VRI and do 2 or 3 test requests (just like you were an owner) just say I want to see how easy it would be to get ....

I did 10 test requests (3 separate phone calls) before I bought my Resorts West MROP for $150 from a fellow TUGGER


----------



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 30, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the information! I think I have a pretty good idea now. One more thing though: Are all timeshare weeks at the associated MROP resorts automatically MROP (i.e. can one buy a week at any of the resorts or does it specifically have to mention MROP)?


----------



## ampaholic (Jul 30, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Thank you so much for all the information! I think I have a pretty good idea now. One more thing though: Are all timeshare weeks at the associated MROP resorts automatically MROP (i.e. can one buy a week at any of the resorts or does it specifically have to mention MROP)?



Excellent question: no MROP resorts are "all MROP" such as Worldmark has most that are "all WM".

For example at Kala Point (one of my favorites) MROP owns 204 mostly summer intervals - so any MROP owner can potentially reserve any of the 204. Other owners own about 2300 of the "other intervals" and the HOA even owns a few.

This is true at all MROP resorts.

In fact spread over all 58 resorts MROP owns only about 9,800 weeks - in the bylaws they are required to keep the weeks owned and number of members within certain percentages of each other - right now they have about 10,400 members. so as they get new members they need to acquire more weeks.

So - bottom line - unless it says "MROP" it likely isn't one.

MROP is only about 1/600th the size of WM.


----------



## JudyS (Aug 7, 2012)

I am showing up late to this discussion, but I have a LOT of experience with MROP and also with Southern California (I own 5 SoCal weeks), so I wanted to chime in.

I used to own three MROPs and I would *not* use MROP to try to get a SoCal summer week. First of all, MROPs fees for a red week (and SoCal is red all year around) are as high or higher than some of the resorts in Southern California. Secondly, MROP doesn't have that much SoCal summer inventory, and they get a lot of demand for the relatively few weeks they do have.

If you are trying to get SoCal summer on a budget, I would suggest "buying" one of the following (I put the word "buy" in quotes because some of these options may be available for free):

1) Any inexpensive, low MF one-bedroom week and put in an ongoing request with Trading Places. Trading Places gets a reasonable amount of one-bedrooms and studios in SoCal. If you go this route, you do not need a red week -- all weeks trade the same in Trading Places. However, you may want to get a red week anyway, for better trading power in systems other than Trading Places. 

(The reason I suggest buying a one-bedroom is that two-bedrooms in SoCal are hard to find and may have higher MFs. Few two-bedroom SoCal summer weeks are available as trades, so owning a two-bedroom doesn't really get you anything. I do not suggest a studio because all exchange companies other than RCI will charge you a fee to upgrade to a larger unit, or not offer you larger units at all. If you only own a studio and can't trade into anything larger, this will severely limit the number of weeks you will be offered as a trade.) 

--or--

2) Any one-bedroom RED week with low MFs at a resort managed by VRI. (VRI manages a lot more than just MROP, and some of their resorts have much lower fees than MROP.) If you do not own a red week, you can still request a trade to a SoCal week, but will have to pay a $100 upgrade fee in addition to the trading fees of $119 or so.  VRI's internal exchange, VRI*ety, gets a lot of SoCal weeks, but you will need to do an ongoing request.  By the way, VRI*ety has access to all of Trading Places' inventory, plus more, so if you own a red week that is managed by VRI*ety, there is no point in depositing with Trading Places instead.

--or--

3) A floating "prime" one-bedroom (sleeps 4 or 6) week at San Clemente Inn. The MF is about $650, which is one of the lower MFs in SoCal, and the resort is in Orange County, where property taxes are often waived on cheap timeshares. (San Diego County, on the other hand, charges me about $70 a year in taxes for a timeshare that I bought for $500.) You will need to reserve your San Clemente Inn week exactly one year out, but it isn't too hard to do via fax or letter. San Clemente Inn weeks are worth up to 36 TPUs in RCI weeks, making them decent RCI traders. (II has always offered me a bonus week if I will give them my San Clemente Inn summer week, but I've never considered giving II my San Clemente Inn week, so I don't know how well it trades in II.) 

--or--

4) As suggested earlier on this thread, buy RCI Points. RCI Points has better SoCal availability than RCI Weeks. If the resort you buy is managed by VRI, you will have priority access to a lot of SoCal weeks if you reserve 11 months out.

Trading through Platinum Interchange is another possibility, but I don't know much about them. 

Platinum Interchange, Trading Places, and VRI*ety all have bonus week programs if you deposit your week early. 

The suggestion to buy at the Blue Whale is probably also good, but I don't often run across weeks for sale there. Possibly, calling the Blue Whale would turn up some weeks for sale.


----------

