# Changes to Reservation and Exchange Procedures documents re "Luxury Property"



## SueDonJ (Oct 30, 2014)

Announced today on my-vacationclub.com:


> The Exchange Procedures for the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program have been amended by the Exchange Company, Marriott Resorts, Travel Company, Inc. Those changes include, among other things, the following:
> 
> Adding a definition for “Luxury Property”;
> 
> ...



*The added definitions:





> Luxury Property means any Accommodation contained in the Trust that is located in a Ritz- Carlton Club, or is otherwise designated a “Luxury Property” by the Program Manager in its sole discretion.


and


> Luxury Property means any Accommodation that is located in a Ritz-Carlton Club, or is otherwise designated a “Luxury Property” by the Exchange Company in its sole discretion.



_I think this is correct but will someone please let me know if it's wrong:_
*Note the Reservation Procedures document is specific to Trust Owners (relating among other things to intervals available directly from the DC Trust,) and, the Exchange Procedures document is applicable to all DC Members (relating among other things to intervals available through the DC Exchange Company.)


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## GregT (Oct 30, 2014)

Interesting.

I'm not sure what it means.

Is Use Period the reservation check-in date, or is it the Use Period of my points (I assume it's reservation check-in date).

If we can't make a reservation using Advance Priority Reservation, was that the 12-13 months out window?  Or is that the 10-13 months out window?

Not sure how to practically apply this new guidance.

Thank you for seeing this and posting it though.  I will try to figure it out.

Best,

Greg


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## SueDonJ (Oct 30, 2014)

GregT said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I'm not sure what it means.
> 
> ...



"Use Period" is the reservation; "Use Year" is the 12-month period of Points allotted each year.  An "Advanced Priority Reservation" is one made by a Standard Member using the 20% Points premium to book ahead of the standard Reservation Window.

I'm still thinking on it too, will take some time later to go back and look at how R-C (not Vail) properties could be booked before these changes, but the little bit I'm getting now is that R-C (not Vail) properties are being re-classified and will be available to all DC Members.  Prem/Plus Members have a reservation window further out than Standard Members, but 50% of the available intervals will be held back for booking by Standard Members at the six months mark.

I think that's right, anyway, so far.  No doubt there are others smarter than me, though, and hopefully they'll take a few minutes to look this over, too.


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## puckmanfl (Oct 31, 2014)

*New procedures*

good evening....

On the vacation club website there is a link to a whole new reservation procedure.  There is such stuff as Trust owner, exchange, Priority 1,2,3 and Luxury properties....

Can anyone make any sense of all of it... and put it in English for we lowly doctor types...

all help appreciated...  basically, I am trying to figure out, if asa pure legacy pp owner "Did I just get hosed?"


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## curbysplace (Oct 31, 2014)

It appears, at least by the explanation on the site page, that the amendments essentially refer to the "luxury" properties.  I suppose we need to check it out line by line to see what the "among other things" just might in fact be.  The reservation procedures document has a date of June 11,2014!


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## puckmanfl (Oct 31, 2014)

good evening...

Oh my...

 I am still recovering from ACEP14 in Chicago.... I am counting on Greg, Sue and the gang to figure this out...

I wait anxiously!!!


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## FractionalTraveler (Oct 31, 2014)

Guess they caught on to all those PP owners renting these very expensive units 12-13 months out for lots of $$$$$.

Anything that Limits usage can't be good.

FT


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## SueDonJ (Oct 31, 2014)

FractionalTraveler said:


> Guess they caught on to all those PP owners renting these very expensive units 12-13 months out for lots of $$$$$.
> 
> Anything that Limits usage can't be good.
> 
> FT



I'm thinking it has something to do with all the R-C lawsuits relating to those owners feeling as though the integration of those properties with the DC has devalued their ownerships (which to me is a reasonable perception on their part.)  Haven't quite fleshed out the whole thing, though.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 31, 2014)

It seems that these procedures have been in place since July and we haven't heard anything earth shattering yet. I am not expecting any big changes here but one thing caught my attention in the Exchange Procedures.

Page 4


> Unless further restricted or limited as provided in Section III.D., a Member may bank the Member’s Exchange Points from twelve (12) months until six (6) months before the expiration date of such Exchange Points.



Does this mean you can't bank 2015 points in to 2016 until January 2015? What if you are trying to make a January 2016 reservation 13 months out in December 2014?


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## GreenTea (Oct 31, 2014)

Does it mean regular owners can book the places that used to be reserved for the premier folks?


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## suzannesimon (Oct 31, 2014)

I saw it today and the more I read, the more confused I was.  What besides RC are luxury properties?  There was something also mentioned about the Aruba Surf and Ocean and Frenchman's Cove.  I'm hoping they were only referring to points exchanges


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## FractionalTraveler (Nov 1, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm thinking it has something to do with all the R-C lawsuits relating to those owners feeling as though the integration of those properties with the DC has devalued their ownerships (which to me is a reasonable perception on their part.)  Haven't quite fleshed out the whole thing, though.



Could be used in court to demonstrate remedial action on Marriott's part to soften the blow and potentially agree to a better settlement outcome for the company.

Good point.

FT


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## dioxide45 (Nov 1, 2014)

suzannesimon said:


> I saw it today and the more I read, the more confused I was.  What besides RC are luxury properties?  There was something also mentioned about the Aruba Surf and Ocean and Frenchman's Cove.  I'm hoping they were only referring to points exchanges



In the trust, only one "Luxury" property exists, Ritz Carlton Vail. I don't think they even consider Grand Residence Tahoe a luxury property. All the other Ritz Carlson properties are available through the Explorer Collection.

I did a search/find in both documents for the terms "Aruba" and "Cove" and couldn't find any mention of the Aruba Surf and Ocean Clubs or Frenchman's Cove. I doubt these documents would ever name a specific property but rather classify them, like they have with using the term "Luxury".


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## Big Matt (Nov 1, 2014)

This is the sentence that is cause for alarm.  It leaves everything up to their discretion.

"Luxury Property means any Accommodation contained in the Trust that is located in a Ritz- Carlton Club, or is otherwise designated a “Luxury Property” by the Program Manager in its sole discretion."


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## suzannesimon (Nov 1, 2014)

Exactly!  I'd be very disappointed if they declared my resorts "luxury" and started restricting access.


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## dansimms (Nov 1, 2014)

*Advantages to being Premier or Premier Plus seemed to have just been minimized*

I wonder how Marriott Vacation Club will try to make up for this apparent reduction in the advantages of being Premier or above?  I was hoping perks would be added as an enticement, not taken away. One simple gesture would be a modest discount on the Explorer Hotels for Premier and above.  Most are at rates I would never take advantage of, as they are near or above 1000 DPs per night for a room.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 1, 2014)

dansimms said:


> I wonder how Marriott Vacation Club will try to make up for this apparent reduction in the advantages of being Premier or above?  I was hoping perks would be added as an enticement, not taken away. One simple gesture would be a modest discount on the Explorer Hotels for Premier and above.  Most are at rates I would never take advantage of, as they are near or above 1000 DPs per night for a room.



How is it a reduction for Prem/Plus Members?  It appears Standard Owners are being given an option they've not had to this point (i.e. access to "Luxury Property") but that doesn't equate to the option being reduced for Prem/Plus Members because they'll have a Reservation Window advantage.  Similar to the Weeks system, 50% of the available intervals will be held back until the Standard Owners' window opens, but there's nothing that says the intervals at that point will be only available to Standard Owners.

It doesn't look like my-vacationclub.com has been updated to reflect these RC-related changes yet, but there are still options (Specialty Packages, Adventure Travel) which don't appear to fall under this new definition of "Luxury Property" and are available through the Explorer Club to only Prem/Plus Members.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 1, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm thinking it has something to do with all the R-C lawsuits relating to those owners feeling as though the integration of those properties with the DC has devalued their ownerships (which to me is a reasonable perception on their part.)  Haven't quite fleshed out the whole thing, though.





FractionalTraveler said:


> Could be used in court to demonstrate remedial action on Marriott's part to soften the blow and potentially agree to a better settlement outcome for the company.
> 
> Good point.
> 
> FT



My mind's going in circles because if what I'm thinking is correct and this is related to the R-C lawsuits, opening up R-C properties to the Standard Members allows for more non-RC Owners to be using them which I'm inferring from the R-C lawsuits is what those Owners don't want, to keep their "exclusivity."

It certainly increases the possible occupancy levels of intervals given up for other usage by R-C Owners and intervals held by Marriott/MVW due to foreclosures, etc, but is that a benefit for the R-C Owners?  It doesn't seem like that would satisfy any of the complaints they've lodged because the result is money in Marriott's/MVW's coffers.

Hmmmm.  Am I remembering correctly that R-C Owners who put their intervals in Marriott's/MVW's rental programs are reimbursed only in the event that the intervals are rented?  If that's the case opening up availability to more DC Members could be a good thing.  But again, it doesn't appear to satisfy the complaints about "exclusivity."  So maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the lawsuits ...

Aaaargh.  My head hurts.


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## bazzap (Nov 1, 2014)

This may be slightly tangential, but for completeness it is also true that European MVC owners who put their intervals in Marriott's/MVW's rental programs are reimbursed only in the event that the intervals are rented.


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## dansimms (Nov 1, 2014)

*Reduction in Premier Benefits*

I felt this was part of a trend of diminished RC benefits for those at the Premier or higher level in the MVCI....... Jupiter RC leaving the program, Abaco no longer being a RC, the recent share of the RC San Francisco changing from a full to a fractional share and this announcement looked as if Premier and Premier Plus members would be faced with more competition to secure usage in a shrinking pool of RC properties.  As more members achieve the Premier and Premier Plus levels you have a growing number of members chasing a finite number of RC occupancy possibilities.  Could the other few RC properties that are still in the program possibly vote to exit the program as well?  My guess is that is within their bylaws. It appears to be a negative trajectory trend for the Premier or better member that enjoys using the RC properties.


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## pacheco18 (Nov 9, 2014)

*"Changes" to Reservations/Exchange Procedures*

Hoping someone with more skin in the game than I have (LOL) has read the new documents thoroughly and can highlight for us any SIGNIFICANT changes to the procedures.  I skimmed the two documents briefly.  Nothing jumped out at me.

Is the time period for booking the same?  e.g. 12 months out? 13 months out?


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## StevenTing (Dec 16, 2014)

*New Exchange and Reservation Procedures*

Anyone take a look at these?  Got the notice when I logged into my-vacationclub.com



> Marriott Vacation Club Destinations™ Program Documentation
> The Exchange Procedures for the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program have been amended by the Exchange Company, Marriott Resorts, Travel Company, Inc. Those changes include, among other things, the following:
> 
> Adding a definition for “Luxury Property”;
> ...




At the bottom, they have links to the new documents.  I haven't had time to read the documents yet but maybe someone with more time can break it down for my simple mind.


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## nakyak (Dec 16, 2014)

StevenTing said:


> Anyone take a look at these?  Got the notice when I logged into my-vacationclub.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is Marriott's way of de-valuing premier and premier plus benefits by making the Ritz properties available to all.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2014)

nakyak1504 said:


> It is Marriott's way of de-valuing premier and premier plus benefits by making the Ritz properties available to all.



That's one way of looking at it.


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## jtdillian (Dec 16, 2014)

Wouldn't that mean that it was already devalued because Vail Ritz has been available to everyone anyways. Do you know why it is available? Because it is in the Trust that's why! And now all Ritz Clubs are in so whatever is in the Trust is available to all owners as long as it goes into the exchange pool. About you thinking it has been devalued I think standard owners can only book 6 months in advance where premier/premier plus owners can reserve 13 months out. Can someone else chime in here tell us if that is true?


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## suzannesimon (Dec 16, 2014)

I think it is definitely a devaluation of the Premier & Premier Plus member but there must be RC owners feeding the inventory so they must be exchanging into the Marriotts.   Maybe there is a  lot of inventory and that is why they are opening it up to all DC members.   Maybe the RC owners like the increased options.  There aren't that many RC Clubs and they may get bored vacationing in ultimate luxury all the time and want to take a walk on the wild side.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 16, 2014)

I am not so sure it is much of a devaluation. Those properties are not cheap points wise. How many standard owners are going to have enough points to really go to any of the Ritz properties for any length of time?


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## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't see how it can be a devaluation in usage when nothing has been taken away from Premier/Plus Members.  They still have an advantage with their 13/12/10-months Reservation Windows ahead of the 6-months window for Standard Members, and even at the 6-mos window they're equal with the Standard Members because it's first-come-first-served for available intervals.  And like Dioxide says there aren't many Standard Members who will have the required DC Points or who will be interested in renting enough to be able to book the R-C properties.

I guess it does take away the "exclusivity" of Prem/Plus membership in that certain Ritz-Carltons are now available to all members instead of only to Prem/Plus Members through the Explorer Collection.  But it seems to me that the R-C Owners have much more of a claim to any "exclusivity" loss than any MVC Owners/Members.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2014)

suzannesimon said:


> I think it is definitely a devaluation of the Premier & Premier Plus member but there must be RC owners feeding the inventory so they must be exchanging into the Marriotts.   Maybe there is a  lot of inventory and that is why they are opening it up to all DC members.   Maybe the RC owners like the increased options.  There aren't that many RC Clubs and they may get bored vacationing in ultimate luxury all the time and want to take a walk on the wild side.



The R-C Owners don't have to exchange into the MVC properties in order for MVW to gain access to R-C intervals for DC Points users.  Just like with Weeks, MVW can mingle pretty much any R-C intervals that they own as well as any that the Owners exchange for any other type of usage.  I do think that some R-C Owners will exchange for DC Points because their fractional ownerships give them access to a boatload of DC Points, but it's not necessary for them to do it in order for R-C intervals to be mingled in the DC Exchange Company.


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## nakyak (Dec 17, 2014)

jtdillian said:


> Wouldn't that mean that it was already devalued because Vail Ritz has been available to everyone anyways. Do you know why it is available? Because it is in the Trust that's why! And now all Ritz Clubs are in so whatever is in the Trust is available to all owners as long as it goes into the exchange pool. About you thinking it has been devalued I think standard owners can only book 6 months in advance where premier/premier plus owners can reserve 13 months out. Can someone else chime in here tell us if that is true?




One of the benefits that the sales people pitched was being Premier/Premier Plus would allow you to book Ritz Clubs.  My understanding is that this benefit was restricted to Premier/PP owners prior to the recent changes by MVW.  Some owners bought specifically for this privilege.  Their ownership is since devalued by having a benefit that was exclusive to them being made available to everyone else.

MVW did a fantastic job of devaluing the Ritz-Carlton Clubs and it seems they have moved on to the Premier/Premier Plus owners now.


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## jtdillian (Dec 17, 2014)

Do you own Marriott yourself? This program compared to Interval is 100x better. Availabilty if you have enough points is amazing compared to the old exchange a week way! I don't understand why someone who owns a grande vista week thinks they should get the same vacation destination points as a Maui owner or be able to use what they get from thier Orlando week and be able exchange for the same points and nights in Maui. I don't agree with what they charge for most of the explorer collection but time share availabilty is unbeleivable.


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## nakyak (Dec 17, 2014)

jtdillian said:


> Do you own Marriott yourself? This program compared to Interval is 100x better. Availabilty if you have enough points is amazing compared to the old exchange a week way! I don't understand why someone who owns a grande vista week thinks they should get the same vacation destination points as a Maui owner or be able to use what they get from thier Orlando week and be able exchange for the same points and nights in Maui. I don't agree with what they charge for most of the explorer collection but time share availabilty is unbeleivable.




Yes I am an owner with Marriott.  I also owned with Ritz before we voted Marriott out of our property.

I watched Marriott de-value the Ritz memberships to the point where the clubs are leaving them one by one.  This change is de-valuing of the premier and premier plus owners by taking a benefit that was exclusive to them and making it available to the entire owner base.

I wonder if Marriott will refund those owners who bought that 1,000 or 1,500 point package to get to the next level to be able to reserve these properties.  My hunch is probably not.


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## Bnov (Dec 17, 2014)

Here's the new definition for Luxury Property in the documentation:  "_Luxury Property means any Accommodation that is located in a Ritz-Carlton Club, or is otherwise designated a “Luxury Property” by the Exchange Company in its sole discretion_."

Here's my take on the four bullet points that follow the new definition:

1) The wait list verbiage states: "_Wait list requests for Luxury Property, other than Accommodations located in The Ritz-Carlton Club, Vail, will not be accepted prior to six (6) months in advance of the first day of a given Use Period; Exchange Company may accept wait list requests for all other Accommodations twelve (12) months in advance of the first day of a given Use Period._"  It appears the six-month limitation applies only to the MVW-defined luxury properties (other than Vail RCC).  All other properties in the system have a wait list option at 12 months.

2) The verbiage about the Advanced Priority Reservation applies only to Standard level owners.  The documents define an Advanced Priority Reservation this way:  "_Advance Priority Reservations may be made by Standard Owners who were granted the right to make an Advance Priority Reservation by Program Manager in exchange for the number of Points for Use required for the exercise of such right. The number of Points required to reserve a Use Period with an Advance Priority Reservation may be up to twenty-five percent (25%) greater than the number of Points that would otherwise be required to reserve the same Use Period_."  This indicates that Standard Owners cannot use this option with MVW-defined luxury properties (again with the exception of the RCC in Vail).

3)The third bullet point verbiage indicates that Standard Owners have the option of making reservations at all the remaining MVW-defined luxury properties at the six-month mark.  I believe this is the most significant change, opening the way for non-premier/premier-plus owners to have access to ALL the luxury properties.  Note that the wait list limitation in the first bulletin point also places all owners on the same footing when it comes to wait list requests.

4) The final bullet point gives MVW the option (as always in their discretion) to withhold up to 50% of their luxury property inventory until six months before the Use Period begins.

You TUG experts can correct any mistakes I may have made in my research.


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