# Sands of Kahana - how does it compare?



## BJRSanDiego (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi,

I have enjoyed owning at the Sands of Kahana (SOK) since 2008 and am wondering how its maintenance fees, quality level, services, and unit amenities compare with other similar Maui properties.

I pay on the order of $1250 per year in MF (plus Hawaii property tax plus land purchase loan) for a 3 BR.  I'm wondering how that compares to say, the Sheraton Maui, some of the timeshares in Napili, The Aston Shores, etc.  

Also, I'm curious how the SOK board make up compares with those of other timeshares.  Most of the people on the board of directors for the SOK vacation club are employees of the management company or in some way have a business tie to them (CRM, ASNY, Soleil, etc.).  Is this kind of standard?


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## DeniseM (Feb 2, 2012)

The Sheraton Maui is actually a hotel - the timeshare is the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas.  It is a newer, 5 Star resort, and the MF for a 2 bdm. is about $2,200 -$2,500 this year, depending on the villa.  

In the TUG Maui ratings and reviews, the various phases of the Marriotts and Starwoods are ranked 1-4, Sands of Kahana is ranked 7th, the Astons are  ranked 38th & 40th, out of 40.  If you join TUG, you will have access to our extensive Maui ratings and reviews.

Unfortunately, many resorts have boards that are dominated by the management company.  Even when most of the board members are "independent owners" they are usually hand picked by the board to be placed  on the ballot and they just rubber stamp what ever management proposes.


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## 1SOKCO (Feb 3, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Unfortunately, many resorts have boards that are dominated by the management company.  Even when most of the board members are "independent owners" they are usually hand picked by the board to be placed  on the ballot and they just rubber stamp what ever management proposes.



This seems wrong.  Are you saying that this is the NORM?  Do the real TS owners care about this?  This just seems wrong to me.  How can the TS owners get on the boards of directors?


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## DeniseM (Feb 3, 2012)

1SOKCO said:


> This seems wrong.  Are you saying that this is the NORM?  Do the real TS owners care about this?  This just seems wrong to me.  How can the TS owners get on the boards of directors?



It depends on the resort, but yes, it's the norm for many systems.  The board controls the selection process, and all the proxy votes, so they can choose anyone they want.

Recently we had a Tugger challenge this at the Westin on Maui, and the board was hostile and suspicious when he got on the ballot without their approval.  Then they used the proxies to put in their hand-picked candidate.


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## 1SOKCO (Feb 3, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> It depends on the resort, but yes, it's the norm for many systems.  The board controls the selection process, and all the proxy votes, so they can choose anyone they want.
> 
> Recently we had a Tugger challenge this at the Westin on Maui, and the board was hostile and suspicious when he got on the ballot without their approval.  Then they used the proxies to put in their hand-picked candidate.



Our committee has been trying to fight this for several years.  Every year it is the same they claim to have all these proxies, but, of course, there is no way to prove it.  They control the whole process.  Take a look at our website for more information.


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## Kauai Kid (Feb 4, 2012)

Three Cheers for the Maui Schooner.  The board is made up of owners and there is no Corporation BOD.

It truly is Democratic. 

Sterling


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## Passepartout (Feb 4, 2012)

1SOKCO said:


> Our committee has been trying to fight this for several years.  Every year it is the same they claim to have all these proxies, but, of course, there is no way to prove it.  They control the whole process.  Take a look at our website for more information.



If the developer controlled HOA has control of all unsold intervals, they have proxies for all those unsold weeks. They can load up the BOD with anyone they want. Even if there are only 10% unsold and those vote together along with the 'incumbents advantage' and unreturned proxies from owners who feel that their single week doesn't count, it is likely enough to ensure near perpetual control.

Makes me happy that my TSs are all virtually sold out and have genuine owner filled BODs that pay for VRI management. Including not the most luxurious, but wonderfully located Kuleana Club in the West Maui neighborhood.

Jim


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## 1SOKCO (Feb 4, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Makes me happy that my TSs are all virtually sold out and have genuine owner filled BODs that pay for VRI management. Including not the most luxurious, but wonderfully located Kuleana Club in the West Maui neighborhood.
> 
> Jim



The Sands of Kahana has been sold out for several years.  However, when TS owners literally give them back to the SOK Vacation Club, they vote those units.  Also, when THEY control literally every aspect of the proxy mailings, collection, and tabulation, we have little we can do.  We have file affidavits requesting the list of owners.  We have quoted Hawaii Administrative Rules about giving us access, but THEY ignore us.  Our only choice it to try and build a database of TS owners on our own.  We are doing that.  I am hoping that by uniting with other TS groups with similar problems, that we can get someone at the State level to care.  SIGH


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## BJRSanDiego (Feb 6, 2012)

*SOK voting*

I'm hoping that SOK owners are reading these postings and plan to vote for the 2 open positions on the Board of Directors.  I think that a lot of timeshare owners just throw their proxy away.  I'm hoping that they don't in the future.

Last year and the year before it was kind of confusing.  I filled out my choices of candidates on the proxy form.  IIRC, if you checked the box giving the Vacation club your proxy, you were permitting them to vote for the candidate of THEIR choice (that is, negating your own selection).  Then 2 weeks after I got the first proxy document, I got a second, asking me to give my proxy authority to the vacation club (IIRC this document did not have any candidates listed).  If I would have signed and filled this out, it would have negated my previous vote.

I am mentioning it here, in case an owner votes and then receives a second proxy document.  I would recommend throwing it away.

I noticed that one of the Candidates, Kevin Blair, who is an incumbent and who is the president of the BOD.  He states that he has years of real estate experience and is a lawyer.  He did not mention that he is affilliated with CRM and ASNY.  When I Googled him, I saw information saying that he was an officer of either CRM or ASNY and is their council.  I think that omitting this information is obfuscating and is clearly a big conflict.  How can he really represent the owners when he works for the management company?  

I think that the best candidate is probably Charlie Johnson.  Getting a few more REAL owners on the BOD will add some very valuable "balance".  Our government has a lot of checks and balances.  I think that our Vacation club should similarly have a few more checks and balances.  

My 2 cents worth.....


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## 1SOKCO (Feb 6, 2012)

BJRSanDiego said:


> I noticed that one of the Candidates, Kevin Blair, who is an incumbent and who is the president of the BOD.  He states that he has years of real estate experience and is a lawyer.  He did not mention that he is affilliated with CRM and ASNY.  When I Googled him, I saw information saying that he was an officer of either CRM or ASNY and is their council.  I think that omitting this information is obfuscating and is clearly a big conflict.  How can he really represent the owners when he works for the management company?



Everything you say true.  BTW, three of the current BOD are employees of ASNY (the company that bought the assets of the bankrupt Consolidated Resorts, Inc. - CRI).  Kevin Blair is General Counsel for ASNY.  Glen Stockton is his assitant General Counsel.  Johnny Santiago is a long term employee.  They ALL worked for CRI before it went bankrupt.  The other two BOD members are David Lint - hand picked by the others, and Chris York, who also sells insurance to the resort and its management.  Conflict of interest...hmmm.  How do you think he will vote?

Thanks.


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## BJRSanDiego (Feb 8, 2012)

*SOK Database*



1SOKCO said:


> The Sands of Kahana...  Our only choice it to try and build a database of TS owners on our own.  We are doing that.  I am hoping that by uniting with other TS groups with similar problems, that we can get someone at the State level to care.  SIGH



I am hoping that all owners are aware of the Sands of Kahana Concerned owners website and that they will take the time to provide info for your database.  Google it to get website.  Also, I noticed that there is a Facebook page for the SOKCO .  I have already signed up (free of course).

It is a shame that CRM/ASNY/SOK Vacation club aren't following the vacation club bylaws and Hawaiian timeshare laws.  It is difficult to get leverage on a company that has such strong legal representation (paid for - - of course - - by the SOK vacation club.  

Building your own database for the purpose of communication is a good idea and one I support.  What do other owners think?


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