# Embarrassing.....IV Phobia and General Anesthesia



## pjrose (Jan 13, 2011)

OK, this is embarrassing, but I need some advice from my TUG peeps.  

I am phobic about IVs.  It's not that I just don't like them or I'm kind of scared of them.  I can't look at one, and my hands are sweating as I think about it and type this.  I've had at least 6-8 surgeries requiring IVs, and another 6+/- procedures with them.  When faced with an IV I turn into a screaming 4 year old and fight the three or four people who are trying to hold me so that it can be inserted. 

I know it's irrational, but it is very real to me.  (I can handle shots and blood tests with difficulty - ice, humming, squeezing people's hands, having my arm held - but I don't flip out completely.)

For some of the surgeries/procedures, the nurses and/or doctors have tried to convince me that it was just a little pinch, don't look, take a deep breath, and so on.  That doesn't work, so then they've tried putting some numbing stuff on my arm (I vaguely recall names such as Emla and Hurricane?) and THEN give me a shot of Novocaine and then do the IV.  That usually doesn't work either, b/c a numb arm doesn't make the phobia go away.  I still know they're doing it and I'm still freaking out.  

What works for me (no stress, no fighting, no trauma) is to either take 20-30mg of valium first (WITH the doctor's knowledge) - I've done this for imaging that requires an IV with dye - or for them to put me under with gas and then put in the IV (that has been the way almost every surgery was done, usually after first fighting the attempts to insert the IV).

So now I'm facing knee replacement (total, after 3 opinions).  I told the surgeon about my phobia.  He discussed my situation with the anesthesiologist at one of the hospitals where he operates, and the anesthesiologist said ok, he could use gas first.  However, I am already scheduled at the other hospital, and would prefer to use it, but the Dr's assistant or secretary told me that the Dr. knows the anesthesiologists at my preferred hospital won't agree to do gas first.

I'm going to call the anesthesia dept at my preferred hospital to check, though how would I know which anesthesiologist would be scheduled to work with my surgeon 6 weeks from now?  Is it kind of pot luck, or do surgeons work with particular anesthesiologists?

Those of you with medical knowledge, how is a problem like mine dealt with?  Why are they hesitant - is there a problem with gas or valium before general anesthesia?  Any other ideas for a solution?  (other than hitting me over the head with a two by four.)


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## JudyH (Jan 13, 2011)

You could see a medical psychologist for desensitization therapy, or try hypnosis.

I don't think my hip surgeon worked with a specific anesthesiologist.  Mine couldn't even speak English.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 13, 2011)

Well, you have to have some sort of weakness.   Everybody's got one and I was beginning to worry about you.

I think you should explain to the anesthesiologist that it would be safer for _him/her_ if you were medicated/gassed first. Otherwise, he is apt to have a black eye and nightmares of screaming banshees for the rest of his career.

Phobias are real. They can be very serious and it is nothing for you to be embarrassed about. A good doctor will know how to handle it.

Yes, call the hospital and see if they have some sort of policy. Ask them if there is a medical reason why it wouldn't be allowed.


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## wackymother (Jan 14, 2011)

Is there a reason you can't take the valium? How about a valium lollipop? I have a cousin who became very agitated before a procedure and the hospital gave her a valium lollipop. She HIGHLY recommends them.


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## MommaBear (Jan 14, 2011)

There are several medications that can be used- valium works for you, so go for it. In these times, hospitals are vying for people with insurance, so explain to  your preferred hospital that you have alternatives, and you will come to them only if they can guarantee gas before IV.
The only medico-legal issue is that after valium you really should not be signing any consent forms, because after you are under the influence, you cannot legally sign informed consent. You could make sure all the forms are signed ahead or you could give whomever is with you Medical Power of Attorney. This could be limited to the day of surgery if you do not want to give blanket permission.

Best of success with your proceedure. You are not alone in your phobia, I see it frequently.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 14, 2011)

PJ, don't beat yourself up. You could talk with a professional to conquer this, but how often does one need an IV? I'd suggest self hypnosis, relaxation techniques, and putting myself in a state of mind that is many MANY miles from the room you're in. Place yourself mentally in your #1 absolute favorite place or situation, and don't allow yourself to focus on your 'real' whereabouts. This is the technique I used with patients, and with a great deal of success, when they actually bought into it.

I'm afraid your chances of an anesthesiologist using gas prior to establishing an IV is slim to nil. The reason is they want a line in you in case you would have problems so they can quickly deliver meds, and that includes problems from the anesthetic.

Good luck.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 14, 2011)

MommaBear said:


> *There are several medications that can be used- valium works for you, so go for it*.



Whoooa there.  Not without first consulting with the attending physician!!


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## 3kids4me (Jan 14, 2011)

Have you tried EMLA cream?  We use it for my daughter's port-a-cath access and even for when the kids get shots.  Apply 90 to 120 minutes prior, and you won't feel a thing.

It is a prescription so you will need to get it from your doctor.  I'm truly amazed at how many doctors don't know about it though, and even nurses in the pediatric wings of hospitals don't regularly use it.  (We always had to bring our own.)


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## DonM (Jan 14, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> Have you tried EMLA cream?  We use it for my daughter's port-a-cath access and even for when the kids get shots.  Apply 90 to 120 minutes prior, and you won't feel a thing.




If you reread the OP's original statement you'll realize that the problem i.e the Phobia is the process NOT the pain. The valium masks the problem which is psycological, whereas the local does not address the problem at all.

see:



> ...For some of the surgeries/procedures, the nurses and/or doctors have tried to convince me that it was just a little pinch, don't look, take a deep breath, and so on. That doesn't work, so then they've tried putting some numbing stuff on my arm (I vaguely recall names such as Emla and Hurricane?) and THEN give me a shot of Novocaine and then do the IV. That usually doesn't work either, b/c a numb arm doesn't make the phobia go away. I still know they're doing it and I'm still freaking out..


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## "Roger" (Jan 14, 2011)

*Also embarassing*

I was half asleep (well, maybe ninety-eight percent asleep) last night when I took a quick (apparently too quick) glance at the original message on a smart phone type device.  I read it as a "TV" phobia.  So the message started out ...
"I am phobic about TVs. It's not that I just don't like them or I'm kind of scared of them. I can't look at one..."​I thought to myself, "Wow, I don't like TV and almost never watch TV (except for some carefully selected DVDs), but that is nothing like this." Then again, maybe an out and out TV phobia wouldn't be such a bad thing.


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## scrapngen (Jan 14, 2011)

"Roger" said:


> I was half asleep (well, maybe ninety-eight percent asleep) last night when I took a quick (apparently too quick) glance at the original message on a smart phone type device.  I read it as a "TV" phobia.  So the message started out ...
> "I am phobic about TVs. It's not that I just don't like them or I'm kind of scared of them. I can't look at one..."​I thought to myself, "Wow, I don't like TV and almost never watch TV (except for some carefully selected DVDs), but that is nothing like this." Then again, maybe an out and out TV phobia wouldn't be such a bad thing.



:hysterical: :hysterical:


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 14, 2011)

"Roger" said:


> I was half asleep (well, maybe ninety-eight percent asleep) last night when I took a quick (apparently too quick) glance at the original message on a smart phone type device.  I read it as a "TV" phobia.  So the message started out ...
> "I am phobic about TVs. It's not that I just don't like them or I'm kind of scared of them. I can't look at one..."​I thought to myself, "Wow, I don't like TV and almost never watch TV (except for some carefully selected DVDs), but that is nothing like this." Then again, maybe an out and out TV phobia wouldn't be such a bad thing.



My eyes are not great, and I hadn't increased the zoom on my IE from a restart, and that is what I saw too. :rofl: It looks like TV....


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## bryanphunter (Jan 14, 2011)

I am an anesthesia provider and I have seen numerous patients get quite worked up about starting an IV.  Usually it's a patient that is a young child 4-12 years old that is most frightened.  Occasionally I run across an adult patient that is extremely scared of IV's.  They have usually had a bad experience in the past and I'm usually able to talk them in a manner that we can proceed without too much of a difficulty.

I've been in practice for 12 years and I've never had to "gas" an adult patient prior to an IV.  But.... I'm not saying you can't do it..... just that I've never had to go that route.  I almost always prior to surgery start an IV after putting the patient to sleep first on anyone up to about 6 years of age.  Older than 6 usually gets an IV with a little numbing injection just under the skin next to the vien to make the IV insertion basically painless.

I understand your phobia is not the pain involved, it more just the thought.  I would tend to go the oral valium route for you, understanding you'd have to come in earlier to get all the paperwork signed prior to taking the valium.  Sometimes it's hard to decide on things without actually meeting my patient.  Recently, an 8 year old came in for a tonsillectomy and his mother works at the hospital with me.  She prewarned me he doesn't do well with needles and to be ready for some hysteria.  He actually did very well.  He was amazed we could do it with very little pain, basically just a small mosquito bite to numb the skin first.

I work in a small community hospital with 3 anesthesia providers, so we get requests from patients all the time to do their anesthesia.


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## 3kids4me (Jan 14, 2011)

DonM said:


> If you reread the OP's original statement you'll realize that the problem i.e the Phobia is the process NOT the pain. The valium masks the problem which is psycological, whereas the local does not address the problem at all.
> 
> see:




Yes, I did read the OP's original statement, but I believe that the pain is part of the process even if it isn't all of it.  The anesthesia she mentions is likely lidocaine, which is a spray on.  They wouldn't be giving her EMLA directly before the injection...if they did, it wouldn't work.

Perhaps the OP will comment further.

P.S. After rereading the post, it appears that OP may not be looking for other solutions, but simply seeking reassurance that it's okay to take 20-30mgs of valium prior to anesthesia.  I'm sure that the anesthesiologist is probably the best person to determine that!


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## Phydeaux (Jan 14, 2011)

bryanphunter said:


> *I am an anesthesia provider *.... gets an IV with a *little numbing injection just under the skin next to the vien *to make the IV insertion basically painless.



You're an anesthesiologist? And you inject a local at the site you're using for the intracath? May I respectfully ask, why? Only because I've never witnessed this in 20+ years in the medical field. Please, do tell.


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## 3kids4me (Jan 14, 2011)

Phydeaux said:


> You're an anesthesiologist? And you inject a local at the site you're using for the intracath? May I respectfully ask, why? Only because I've never witnessed this in 20+ years in the medical field. Please, do tell.



I think lidocaine injections right next to the vein are pretty common right before inserting an IV.  However, I think they can hurt as much as inserting the IV itself!

I'm curious as to where you work that you have never seen this?  I just looked up a source (Outpatient Surgery Magazine) which interviewed 118 health care providers, and 61.9% of them used a local anesthetic injection before needle insertion.

http://e-ditionsbyfry.com/Olive/ODE...10/05/01&pageno=32&entity=Ar03201&view=entity


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## bryanphunter (Jan 14, 2011)

Phydeaux said:


> You're an anesthesiologist? And you inject a local at the site you're using for the intracath? May I respectfully ask, why? Only because I've never witnessed this in 20+ years in the medical field. Please, do tell.




I use buffered 1% Lidocaine and inject just the tiniest amount for a skin wheal.  (0.1 to 0.2 ml's).  By buffering the lidocaine you decrease the sting of the local anesthetic.  I also use a 29g needle (barely bigger than an eyelash to inject the local).   Majority of my patients say they don't feel anything with the IV start.

I have had many coworkers over the years that will argue why poke a patient twice (Local + the IV) when you can just do it once.  I reply that in this day and age, we should try to make EVERY procedure as painless as possible. 

Other's will say the the local makes the vein disappear... baloney, that is just an excuse to hide behind.   IV insertion is one of the hardest skills to master in the hospital and I don't think all patients understand how hard it can be.  Sometimes I have to use ultrasound on very large obese patients to "see" veins that hide deep in the arms.

It just takes alot of repetition and practice to become an expert at it.


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## bryanphunter (Jan 14, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> I think lidocaine injections right next to the vein are pretty common right before inserting an IV.  However, I think they can hurt as much as inserting the IV itself!
> 
> I'm curious as to where you work that you have never seen this?  I just looked up a source (Outpatient Surgery Magazine) which interviewed 118 health care providers, and 61.9% of them used a local anesthetic injection before needle insertion.
> 
> http://e-ditionsbyfry.com/Olive/ODE...10/05/01&pageno=32&entity=Ar03201&view=entity



Great link 3kids4me!!!  Many patients coming to surgery worry more about the IV than about the surgery or the anesthesia.  I like to gain my patients trust and confidence as an anesthesia provider by getting the IV inserted without any pain.  I think it puts them at ease right from the start that I will take great care of them during there operation or procedure.  

I almost enjoy the patient that tells me it took 8 tries to get my IV at [insert competing hospital's name].  Usually I get it on the first try.  I'm human and we all miss sometimes, but at least if I miss there is no pain involved.


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## rapmarks (Jan 14, 2011)

I can sure symppathize with you.  
I remember one IV insertion, it wasn't going well, I must have blacked out.I recall  being on the floor with doctors and nurses and smelling salts.  
Now I can only get IV's, blood tests, shots, on the right side due to removal of lymph nodes on left side.  Veins in my arm are flat, they get in and don't draw anything out.  so now they take from my hand.      I am putting off seeing the doctor as i don't want any tests.  

My real phobia is anyone touching my eyes.  they cannot do the glaucoma test on me.  i am starting to get a small cataract.  i don't know how I will ever get it fixed when the time comes.


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## pjrose (Jan 14, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> Have you tried EMLA cream?  We use it for my daughter's port-a-cath access and even for when the kids get shots.  Apply 90 to 120 minutes prior, and you won't feel a thing.
> 
> It is a prescription so you will need to get it from your doctor.  I'm truly amazed at how many doctors don't know about it though, and even nurses in the pediatric wings of hospitals don't regularly use it.  (We always had to bring our own.)



Yes, I have tried it.  It has helped a few times - I was still really really scared and yelling, but it helped. However, at least once they couldn't get a vein in the numb area....so then tried to go elsewhere.


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## pjrose (Jan 14, 2011)

"Roger" said:


> I was half asleep (well, maybe ninety-eight percent asleep) last night when I took a quick (apparently too quick) glance at the original message on a smart phone type device.  I read it as a "TV" phobia.  So the message started out ...
> "I am phobic about TVs. It's not that I just don't like them or I'm kind of scared of them. I can't look at one..."​I thought to myself, "Wow, I don't like TV and almost never watch TV (except for some carefully selected DVDs), but that is nothing like this." Then again, maybe an out and out TV phobia wouldn't be such a bad thing.



Thanks for the laugh!   :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## pjrose (Jan 14, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> Yes, I did read the OP's original statement, but I believe that the pain is part of the process even if it isn't all of it.  The anesthesia she mentions is likely lidocaine, which is a spray on.  They wouldn't be giving her EMLA directly before the injection...if they did, it wouldn't work.
> 
> Perhaps the OP will comment further.
> 
> P.S. After rereading the post, it appears that OP may not be looking for other solutions, but simply seeking reassurance that it's okay to take 20-30mgs of valium prior to anesthesia.  I'm sure that the anesthesiologist is probably the best person to determine that!



No, I am not looking for reassurance re the 20-30 mg of valium; I'd need that from my doctor, and the anesthesiologist.  I have done that with their OKs.  I would not want to take that much before general anesthesia, for fear of an interaction with the anesthesia or my heart stopping or whatever awful thing might happen.  I am not worried about taking the valium (with Dr's ok) before an IV for imaging; then there is no other medication.  But a general on top of that much valium doesn't seem wise even to me.   

I have had an anesthesiologist tell me to take 5mg half an hour before and put on Emla cream at about the same time, and THEN they gave me a shot (like novocaine?) at the site, and even then I turned into a banshee and they had to use gas.  When I woke up I found two IVs - they put in a second one just in case something later went wrong with the first!  I didn't like having it there....but I appreciated that I wouldn't have to deal with a second insertion if there were problems.

I think my problem with the IV is something like a control or claustrophobia issue....hard to explain (especially since I don't understand it myself), but it's INSIDE of my vein, and just is really creepy and scary.  I don't like shots, but the needle goes in and then is removed.  Same with blood tests.  But the IV stays there.....

What I was hoping for here was some suggestions - such as the Emla (yes, I've tried it, and I certainly will again!) - and also perhaps some info from those in the field about how they handle phobic patients.   

I don't understand what the problem is with gas - from my perspective, the mask goes on, I count down 5, 4, 3.....and the next thing I know I wake up in recovery.  I'm assuming they only keep me on the gas for a few minutes till they get the IV going - is there something dangerous about gas?  

I may look into hypnosis - does anyone have any experience or knowledge about whether that works?


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## wackymother (Jan 14, 2011)

What about the valium lollipops? I think that's a very, very low dose, and you suck on it just till the IV is in. The idea is to give you just enough for you to get over the rough spots. Ask your doctor about them.


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## pjrose (Jan 14, 2011)

wackymother said:


> What about the valium lollipops? I think that's a very, very low dose, and you suck on it just till the IV is in. The idea is to give you just enough for you to get over the rough spots. Ask your doctor about them.



If it's a low dose, what's the point?  5 or 10 mg does nothing.


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## Fern Modena (Jan 14, 2011)

You can go to sleep for the cataract surgery if you need to.  The whole thing is just a few minutes long.  I went to sleep with one eye, but not with the other one.  Just talk to your doctor about it when the time comes.  It may take years before you need surgery.  My cataract took about 6-7 years before I needed surgery.

Fern



rapmarks said:


> My real phobia is anyone touching my eyes.  they cannot do the glaucoma test on me.  i am starting to get a small cataract.  i don't know how I will ever get it fixed when the time comes.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 15, 2011)

How about a licensed hypnotist? They deal with phobias all the time. Maybe your doctor could recommend someone.
Liz


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## pjrose (Jan 15, 2011)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> How about a licensed hypnotist? They deal with phobias all the time. Maybe your doctor could recommend someone.
> Liz



Yeah, I'm definitely going to pursue that.  I learned and successfully used self hypnosis 20+ years ago, so maybe it'll work again.


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## cindi (Jan 15, 2011)

Are you for sure having general anesthesia? Often with knee replacements they do spinals.

I can't imagine how they would manage to accomplish that tho,


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## pjrose (Jan 15, 2011)

cindi said:


> Are you for sure having general anesthesia? Often with knee replacements they do spinals.
> 
> I can't imagine how they would manage to accomplish that tho,



Yes, general, and no way I'd want a spinal!       (Not because I'm afraid it would be dangerous, but I'd be scared it's painful AND I absolutely do not want to be awake.)

A friend recently had hip replacement with a spinal; she was kind of woozy and noticed her leg up in the air, hanging by the foot....she freaked out so they immediately gave her general


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## bryanphunter (Jan 15, 2011)

In my practice, 90% choose spinal over general anesthesia.  In addition, I perform a femoral nerve block with a catheter for local anesthetic infusion postoperatively.  Most patient's have very little pain requiring only NSAID's (similar to ibuprofen).

Many patients are fearful of spinal thinking we can paralyze them.  This is really impossible as the spinal cord ends at L1 vertebrae.  Most spinal injections are performed below that (L4 - L5 )

Everyone that gets a block receives a small dose of IV Versed (same family as Valium).  Many patient's don't even remember the actual spinal insertion.  Most tell me the last thing they remember is leaving the pre-op holding area.

PJROSE,  hypnosis is an incredible technique that may serve you well.  I encourage you to seek out a certified specialist that can help you with your fear of needles.


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## rapmarks (Jan 16, 2011)

when I went in for some very complicated surgery, I knew i was going under general anesthesia.  Then the anestesiologist came in and told me they recommended a spinal also.  They gave it high up on my back. i do not remember anything after that til I woke up in my room.  i had a 6 hour procedure and I woke up without feeling woozy at all.  For the 48 hours they left it in, it really helped with the pain.  (of course if I moved at all it hurt).  I met a woman who had liver surgery and she said she barely had any pain.  She felt it was due to the spinal. Of course, when they put me on pain meds after they took it out, I got sick from the medications.


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## 3kids4me (Jan 16, 2011)

bryanphunter said:


> Everyone that gets a block receives a small dose of IV Versed (same family as Valium).  Many patient's don't even remember the actual spinal insertion.  Most tell me the last thing they remember is leaving the pre-op holding area.



This is because Versed can cause retrograde amnesia, whereas Valium does not.  I personally don't care for Versed and think patients should be well informed of its possible long term effects before using it.


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## bryanphunter (Jan 16, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> This is because Versed can cause retrograde amnesia, whereas Valium does not.  I personally don't care for Versed and think patients should be well informed of its possible long term effects before using it.


Actually all benzodiazapines cause antegrade amnesia (no recall going forward once the drug is given).  Versed has a shorter halflife than valium which is why it is favored by most anesthetists.

"Virtually all effects of the BZD result from actions of these drugs on the CNS. The most prominent of these effects are sedation, hypnosis, decreased anxiety, muscle relaxation, anterograde amnesia, and anticonvulsant activity." The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 10th edition, Goodman and Gilman, page 402.

"All benzodiazepines have hypnotic, sedative, anxiolytic, amnesic, anticonvulsant, and centrally produced muscle relaxant properties." Anesthesia, 5th edition, Miller, page 230. No distinction regarding retrograde or antegrade amnesia.

"Benzodiazepines....sedative doses often produce antegrade amnesia, a useful premedication property." Clinical Anesthesiology, 3rd edition, Morgan and Mikhail, page 164.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 28, 2011)

pjrose said:


> What works for me (no stress, no fighting, no trauma)...put me under with gas and then put in the IV ....


PJ, this one is for you.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&v=jtktUIUHmp4&annotation_id=annotation_624764


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## Big Matt (Jan 28, 2011)

My 16 year old son was diagnosed with Juvenile Arthritis about 2.5 years ago. He had to have two injections a week for the first three months and then one for the next 21 months.  He also had to have blood work every three months.

He had the same exact fear as you, PJRose.  

We tried everything for a month, but in the end, he came to a realization that he was going to have to do this for two years (at least).  He was able to convince himself that the procedure really didn't hurt too much and that it would be over quickly.  He also knew that the alternative (Arthritis) was a much worse proposition.

I think that you have to "give up" and accept that you will have to do this.  I know it sounds corny, but it worked for him.


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## pjrose (Jan 28, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> PJ, this one is for you.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&v=jtktUIUHmp4&annotation_id=annotation_624764



I love it!


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## pjrose (Jan 28, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> My 16 year old son was diagnosed with Juvenile Arthritis about 2.5 years ago. He had to have two injections a week for the first three months and then one for the next 21 months.  He also had to have blood work every three months.
> 
> He had the same exact fear as you, PJRose.
> 
> ...



That makes perfect sense logically and rationally, but when it comes time to actually do an IV logic and rationality are gone.  The phobia takes over and I completely flip out.  However, I'm a) talking to the anesthesiologist, b) going to use emla cream (which numbs the area) and c) going to try self-hypnosis.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 28, 2011)

pjrose said:


> ... I'm a) talking to the anesthesiologist, b) going to use emla cream (which numbs the area) and c) going to try self-hypnosis.


And remember to hum that song.


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## kwilson (Jan 28, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> This is because Versed can cause retrograde amnesia, whereas Valium does not.  I personally don't care for Versed and think patients should be well informed of its possible long term effects before using it.



Versed is a miracle drug!!! I won't let anyone start a medical procedure, such as endoscopy, colonoscopy, those scanning machines that lower over your body and head, pet scans, angioplasty, etc. without it. I have such a phobia that my vital signs practically drop off the charts and I pass out. As soon as the Versed takes effect I couldn't care less what they do to me. 
My most embarrassing moment was when my fiance and I went together to get our blood tests and I passed out in front of her.


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## pjrose (Jan 28, 2011)

Is Versed a shot? What does it do - make you loopy, or tired, or ???


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## 3kids4me (Jan 28, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Is Versed a shot? What does it do - make you loopy, or tired, or ???



Do a little Googling on versed and you will probably find out everything you would want to know.  Pay particular attention to the pharma sites rather than the consumer sites.


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## pwrshift (Jan 28, 2011)

I have deep veins and have always had blood test problems with nurses who say they've been doing it for years and never missed ... Until they met me.  When I went on coumadin I had to initially get a blood test twice a week always ending up with very big arm bruises...until I met a nurse who tried a butterfly needle on the back of my hand...and I never even felt it.

IV's have been a problem for me as they are usually in the arm and 90% of the time they have to stick the needle and wiggle it around until they hit the vein, sometimes going right through the vein, like they did 2 weeks ago to take a CT scan...most of that bruise is gone two weeks later.  It's not the 'hurt' that bothers me...it's the after effects of bruising.  So, I have a phobia too...it's almost like my veins go into hiding when the needles come out.

Brian


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## lorenmd (Jan 28, 2011)

i'm  an anesthesiologist and  i've had both my knees replaced.  i'm with bryan, a spinal with a nerve block is the way to go.  absolutely the nerve block even if you opt for the general.  I would never put an adult to sleep without an iv.  that is how people die. anyone who agrees to do this is gambling and in this day and age, there is no need to gamble.  I would ask to have an IV without the needle, given to you to play with for the days prior to your surgery.  carry it with you, play with it.  make it familiar.  I would have you take 10 mgs of valium in the morning prior to coming to the hospital but after you have talked to the anesthesiologist.  general anesthesia with a fem nerve block would give you excellent results and allow you to start PT right away.  it sounds like it is not the pain of placing the IV but just the actual thought of the IV that freaks you out.  remember, the IV is your best friend.  It saves your life, it delivers pain medicine, it delivers much needed fluid and if you feel sick, it delivers anti nausea medicine.  IV is your friend.


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## pjrose (Jan 28, 2011)

pwrshift said:


> . . .
> 
> IV's have been a problem for me as they are usually in the arm and 90% of the time they have to stick the needle and wiggle it around until they hit the vein, sometimes going right through the vein, like they did 2 weeks ago to take a CT scan...most of that bruise is gone two weeks later.  It's not the 'hurt' that bothers me...it's the after effects of bruising.  So, I have a phobia too...it's almost like my veins go into hiding when the needles come out.
> 
> Brian



OMG - the thought of wiggling it.....I think my BP just went way up.  I couldn't even read the rest of your sentence at first.  I just went up to try to read the rest of the sentence and I cringed and couldn't get past that word.    

I'm also freaked about having them in my hand.....the after effects of that have been a hard-feeling vein for ages afterward.  



lorenmd said:


> i'm  an anesthesiologist and  i've had both my knees replaced.  i'm with bryan, a spinal with a nerve block is the way to go.  absolutely the nerve block even if you opt for the general.  I would never put an adult to sleep without an iv.  that is how people die. anyone who agrees to do this is gambling and in this day and age, there is no need to gamble.  I would ask to have an IV without the needle, given to you to play with for the days prior to your surgery.  carry it with you, play with it.  make it familiar.  I would have you take 10 mgs of valium in the morning prior to coming to the hospital but after you have talked to the anesthesiologist.  general anesthesia with a fem nerve block would give you excellent results and allow you to start PT right away.  it sounds like it is not the pain of placing the IV but just the actual thought of the IV that freaks you out.  remember, the IV is your best friend.  It saves your life, it delivers pain medicine, it delivers much needed fluid and if you feel sick, it delivers anti nausea medicine.  IV is your friend.



Thanks, Lorenmd.  The thought of even looking at one, much less touching it....OMG that's just creeping me out.  I can't even imagine.  BUT it's really a great idea.  Hmmmmm....if I could get up the nerve to try that.....

I kind of get what you're saying about gas without IV, but I'm out in a few seconds with the gas, and then I assume they've got the IV in a few seconds later.  Is even just a few seconds or maybe a minute with gas but no IV a potential problem?  

I do recall once ages ago getting demoral first - it was a lovely feeling - and after that I have no idea what happened in terms of an IV.


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## cindi (Jan 28, 2011)

pjrose said:


> OMG - the thought of wiggling it.....I think my BP just went way up.  I couldn't even read the rest of your sentence at first.  I just went up to try to read the rest of the sentence and I cringed and couldn't get past that word.
> 
> I'm also freaked about having them in my hand.....the after effects of that have been a hard-feeling vein for ages afterward.
> 
> ...



The problem with doing it with gas first and IV later is if there is an emergency, and you have no IV access it is a BAD thing.  And that is the worst possible senario to have to start an IV in.  

I understand you have a phobia about it, but it is really a bad idea to not have the IV in place before any kind of anesthesia.


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## MuranoJo (Jan 28, 2011)

PJ, all I can tell you is you are not alone.  I have this aversion to needles and blood tests, and especially IVs.  And my BP goes wacky whenever I go into a doctor's office.  And to think at one time I was seriously considering nursing as a career.  

I'm being a good girl now and doing an annual physical which requires a blood test, and I have learned to just 'psych' myself out by mentally imagining myself as someone who has no issue with it at all.  I'm not sure what they call it but perhaps visualizing?  It's hard to believe, but it works.

And, yes, I've had a few IV experiences.


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## Glynda (Jan 29, 2011)

*IVs*

I have a friend who has panic attacks and cries through drawing blood and IV insertion so I know the fear is real.  We have to leave home early in order to get her to even go in. She becomes very disagreeable with the nurses and vocal when stuck.

Be thankful that they can get in IV in you!  I have small rolling veins and have had as many as 4 nurses trying only to finally give up and let the anesthesiologist put a port in my jugular vein. I was wide awake and had to be absolutely still and it was terrifying.  I've lost a good bit of weight since then and it's been better but still difficult.  I don't mind the first stick but it's when they have to prod around in there trying to hit it. :annoyed:


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## MelBay (Jan 29, 2011)

> gave her a valium lollipop.



I haven't even ever had one, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this could almost top chocolate as my favorite candy.

And Rapmarks, I have the same eyeball phobia.  Haven't had that air test in years, simply cannot do it.  Last year I got a PAPER CUT   on my cornea (long, boring story) and the doctor was sweating profusely by the time the got the bandaid contact in my eye.  OMG, I need a valium lollipop just thinking about it ....


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