# Direct vs. Resale Benefits?



## Rascal2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

I purchased a VIP membership last year to try out the program and freeze my price.  I have been very happy with HGVC and had no trouble booking the time I wanted at MarBrisa (6 nights) and the Boulevard in Las Vegas (8 nights), 2-3 months out with my 7,000 VIP points.  I just went to my update sales meeting at MarBrisa and dared to ask about the differences between direct and resale purchases.  In addition to cautionary tales about not getting clean title when buying resale, the rep made the following statements:

1.  Any resale purchase converts back from the points system to a fixed week at the deeded property.
2.  There is no opportunity to trade weeks within HGVC or RCI if you buy resale; the deeded week is what you get, period.
3.  HGVC is unable to do anything with a resale purchase in the future - no upgrades, owner updates, etc.  
4.  Open season is not available.

Can anyone speak to the validity of her comments?  

I was offered 2,500 points every _other_ year for $12,000.  Even with my VIP purchase credit, with MF and dues this results in paying about $4,500 for a 3 day weekend every other year for 10 years.  Not quite sure why anyone would do that.  

Appreciate any input, thanks for your help!


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## 2disneydads (Apr 20, 2017)

I think that everything you were told is fundamentally false.  We own direct and resale weeks.  The only difference between them is that the resale weeks do not count toward our elite status.  The first point might be true if you buy at an affiliated resort and that resort ends its affiliation with HGVC.  (She might have been speaking specifically of MarBrisa, which is something of an affiliated resort. )  But if you buy resale at Las Vegas or Orlando in a true HGVC resort, then you really don't have that risk.  The second point again might be somewhat true with respect to MarBrisa and HGVC should you buy a week originally marketed through Grand Pacific and not one affiliated with HGVC (MarBrisa is somewhat unique in that respect).  Again, if you buy resale at a true HGVC resort, points are points at the club booking season, whether direct or resale and whether from the specific resort or not.  I doubt that HGVC ever will pass up an opportunity to market to an owner,  so maybe all you won't get are upgrades. 

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## SmithOp (Apr 20, 2017)

All lies, typical timeshare salesperson scare tactics to get you to buy developer.


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## GT75 (Apr 20, 2017)

First off, congratulations for not taking that offer.

In order to help us better respond, answer a few questions.

What room size, season and MFs was that offer?
Now that you have "tried out the system" with your 7000 VIP points, how do you see yourself using the system in the future?​


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## PigsDad (Apr 20, 2017)

Everyone of those four points was a blatant lie spewing from your salesperson.  Good job in questioning their BS.



Rascal2016 said:


> I was offered 2,500 points every _other_ year for $12,000.


For half that price, you could get 7000 points _every_ year via resale.  You have seen what 7000 points gets you, so you can use that as a gauge to decide what would work best for you.



> Even with my VIP purchase credit, with MF and dues this results in paying about $4,500 for a 3 day weekend every other year for 10 years.  *Not quite sure why anyone would do that.*


No informed person would go for that deal, that is for sure!  Resale is definitely the way to go, an in most cases, the only way purchasing makes any kind of financial sense.

Kurt


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## Passepartout (Apr 20, 2017)

As said above, sales weasels lie.

 Now, the reason you had trouble booking use 2-3 months before use is that at popular resorts, you need to book as far in advance as possible. Iirc, that's at 10 months. (I could be mistaken- someone will have the exact number) I know of TUGgers who get up at midnight to book at the first moment.

Jim


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 20, 2017)

Jim, 

its 9 months at HGVC, but yes, with popular resorts, especially resorts like Oahu, you need to book 9 months out, or book 1 month out and hope for someone's 31 day prior cancellation.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 20, 2017)

*They have been telling lies about resale vs retail for a very long time. *

Here are some old threads regarding the same old lie (scare tactics) from the sales folk.

Help:Eight Reasons NOT to buy Resale *(2009)* - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97652
HGVC - changes for resale buyers? *(2008)* - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70747
Went to Sales Presentation in Vegas *(2008)* - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61745
Newbie in need of some help: resale vs. developer purchase differences *(2008)* - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74675
Questions for seth *(2006)* - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20077


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## Talent312 (Apr 20, 2017)

This proves the adage:
"How do you know a TS salesman is lying?... His lips are moving."

_1. Any resale purchase converts back from the points system to a fixed week at the deeded property._

Not only a complete fabrication, but more than that: HGVC is well aware that any such move (which they could only do for future buyers), it would seriously cripple the "club" (too many members staying in their units), and greatly diminish it's appeal to all buyers, including retail.

_2. There is no opportunity to trade weeks within HGVC or RCI if you buy resale; the deeded week is what you get, period._

That would mean that all my club points (8500) and all the RCI gin-joints I've stayed in, are merely pigments of my imagination.

_3. HGVC is unable to do anything with a resale purchase in the future - no upgrades, owner updates, etc. _

Then why would I - a resale-only owner - be offered an "upgrade" with credit a retail-price credit of my TS... at an owners's update? Maybe that was a pigment of my imagination, too... not that I'd ever want to do that again.

_4. Open season is not available._

HGVC may have priced Open Season to the point that it's value is questionable, but it's available (in a sense).

.


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> As said above, sales weasels lie.
> 
> Now, the reason you had trouble booking use 2-3 months before use is that at popular resorts, you need to book as far in advance as possible. Iirc, that's at 10 months. (I could be mistaken- someone will have the exact number) I know of TUGgers who get up at midnight to book at the first moment.
> 
> Jim


Thanks, Jim.  Actually, because we went a bit off season to MarBrisa and are going to Las vegas in summer, I was delighted to be able to book my first choice dates in both locations without much lead time.  I realize this won't be the case in peak season or high demand locations so I consider myself lucky this year.  

Very reassuring to know the statements the salesperson made were false, thanks!


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

alwysonvac said:


> *They have been telling lies about resale vs retail for a very long time. *
> 
> Here are some old threads regarding the same old lie (scare tactics) from the sales folk.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for these links - great info!


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> This proves the adage:
> "How do you know a TS salesman is lying?... His lips are moving."
> 
> _1. Any resale purchase converts back from the points system to a fixed week at the deeded property._
> ...





PigsDad said:


> Everyone of those four points was a blatant lie spewing from your salesperson.  Good job in questioning their BS.
> 
> 
> For half that price, you could get 7000 points _every_ year via resale.  You have seen what 7000 points gets you, so you can use that as a gauge to decide what would work best for you.
> ...


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

GT75 said:


> First off, congratulations for not taking that offer.
> 
> In order to help us better respond, answer a few questions.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

Actually, they didn't approach the sale with room size, season or MFs.  Because I just kept saying that it wasn't the right time for me to buy (financially), they tried to get a monthly payment as close to my VIP payment as they could, saying that if I had no problem making the VIP payment, I would be fine with the new payment and would have my foot in the door as an owner.  (Of course with VIP I got 7000 points, not 2500 biennial points + dues + MFs.)

I'm primarily interested in domestic travel (mostly Western US) in a 1 BR and prefer traveling off peak.  I've been looking at resales in NV due to low MFs and am wondering if there's a significant risk of buying at an affiliated property rather than HGVC developed.  I love Carlsbad but there seems to be much more inventory in NV and the Grand Pacific ownership/management in Carlsbad makes me uncertain. 

I've never owned a TS before but have been a diamond-level HiltonHonors member for years so now that I'm in the market it seems to make the most sense to buy Hilton.

Thanks for your help!


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## SmithOp (Apr 20, 2017)

Its not a good idea to finance a timeshare purchase, you shouldn't be discussing monthly payments with a salesperson, buy resale and pay cash.

The best comeback for when they come up with these lies about resale is: Why would I buy something that loses so many of the benefits that it would be impossible to sell?


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## Talent312 (Apr 21, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> Its not a good idea to finance a timeshare purchase, you shouldn't be discussing monthly payments with a salesperson...



Eggsactly.
If you cannot scrape up the cash, you should not be buying.
Stay-cation is a better option than going into debt to vacation.
.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 21, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> Eggsactly.
> If you cannot scrape up the cash, you should not be buying.
> Stay-cation is a better option than going into debt to vacation.
> 
> Particularly when you are going into debt with an overpriced purchase of a vacation.  The best sales tactic that the developers have is selling to people when they are happily on a vacation and want to repeat that good feeling again and again so they buy even if they can't afford it.


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## GT75 (Apr 21, 2017)

It looks like they were offering a Studio/Studio Plus in Gold season which is 2,500 points.   We don't have listed what the MFs would be in our sticky but I suspect that it would be high also.   Many of these shoulder season units, as this one, are some of the worst deals to purchase.

I think that you have already been given sound advice from others in this thread. You also have had the opportunity to "try out the system" via your VIP membership.    You can now take your time, research and evaluate.     Again, I commend you for not taking that "deal".


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 21, 2017)

GT75 said:


> First off, congratulations for not taking that offer.
> 
> In order to help us better respond, answer a few questions.
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
Actually, they didn't approach the sale with room size, season or MFs.  Because I just kept saying that it wasn't the right time for me to buy (financially), they tried to get a monthly payment as close to my VIP payment as they could, saying that if I had no problem making the VIP payment, I would be fine with the new payment and would have my foot in the door as an owner.  (Of course with VIP I got 7000 points and no dues or MF, not 2500 biennial points + dues + MFs.  )

I'm primarily interested in domestic travel (mostly Western US) in a 1 BR and prefer traveling off peak.  I've been looking at resales in NV due to low MFs and am wondering if there's a significant risk of buying at an affiliated property rather than HGVC developed.  I love Carlsbad but there seems to be much more inventory in NV and the Grand Pacific ownership/management in Carlsbad makes me uncertain.

I've never owned a TS before but have been a diamond-level HiltonHonors member for years so now that I'm in the market it seems to make the most sense to buy Hilton.


SmithOp said:


> Its not a good idea to finance a timeshare purchase, you shouldn't be discussing monthly payments with a salesperson, buy resale and pay cash.
> 
> The best comeback for when they come up with these lies about resale is: Why would I buy something that loses so many of the benefits that it would be impossible to sell?
> 
> ...





SmithOp said:


> Its not a good idea to finance a timeshare purchase, you shouldn't be discussing monthly payments with a salesperson, buy resale and pay cash.
> 
> The best comeback for when they come up with these lies about resale is: Why would I buy something that loses so many of the benefits that it would be impossible to sell?
> 
> ...



Agreed, that is precisely my plan.  Good comeback, thanks!


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## Rascal2016 (Apr 21, 2017)

GT75 said:


> It looks like they were offering a Studio/Studio Plus in Gold season which is 2,500 points.   We don't have listed what the MFs would be in our sticky but I suspect that it would be high also.   Many of these shoulder season units, as this one, are some of the worst deals to purchase.
> 
> I think that you have already been given sound advice from others in this thread. You also have had the opportunity to "try out the system" via your VIP membership.    You can now take your time, research and evaluate.     Again, I commend you for not taking that "deal".



Thanks.  We've visited the three in Carlsbad and I plan to visit all the Vegas properties when we are there in June.  Not a bd kind of research to be doing.  I appreciate your input, thanks!


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## presley (Apr 21, 2017)

Rascal2016 said:


> In addition to cautionary tales about not getting clean title when buying resale


If you are worried about getting a clean title, buy from Judi Kozwolski. That's what Hilton and Grand Pacific Resorts do and if they buy resales from her, I suspect they trust that the titles are clean.


Rascal2016 said:


> 1. Any resale purchase converts back from the points system to a fixed week at the deeded property.





Rascal2016 said:


> 2. There is no opportunity to trade weeks within HGVC or RCI if you buy resale; the deeded week is what you get, period.


That's never happened to anyone who has ever purchased a resale. If they say that to you again, have them put it in writing with their name and then post it on social media and see what happens.


Rascal2016 said:


> 3. HGVC is unable to do anything with a resale purchase in the future - no upgrades, owner updates, etc.


Wow, that would be awesome. I think most of us would purchase resale if we knew we'd never have to do with the "owner updates" and other bogus sales pitches. Sadly, that is not the case. They still hound us the same as they hound all the other owners. 

Buy a resale that you know you will use and enjoy. Buy from a reputable resales agent. They are much more helpful and more knowledgable about the system than the direct salespeople.


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## buzglyd (Apr 21, 2017)

We all really enjoy the HGVC system but keep in mind your Diamond status means nothing in the timeshare system. It's a totally separate company.


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## Nomad420 (Apr 21, 2017)

I am new to this game but my brother isn't. He bought from developer at 57th St and subsequent to that only resale.  As he said and as others above "points are points".  He doesn't even go to any of the other properties he owns and could care where they are.  He buys for the cheapest $/point and lowest MF's.  While he typically stays in NYC he does occasionally go to other locations.


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## arnief (Apr 22, 2017)

Being denied to see Owner's updates alone is reason enough to buy resale....


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## Judi Kozlowski (Apr 23, 2017)

1. Any resale purchase converts back from the points system to a fixed week at the deeded property.  *Not True*
2. There is no opportunity to trade weeks within HGVC or RCI if you buy resale; the deeded week is what you get, period. *Not True*
3. HGVC is unable to do anything with a resale purchase in the future - no upgrades, owner updates, etc. *Not True*
4. Open season is not available *Not True*
I was offered 2,500 points every _other_ year for $12,000. Even with my VIP purchase credit, with MF and dues this results in paying about $4,500 for a 3 day weekend every other year for 10 years. Not quite sure why anyone would do that. * I could sell you the same thing for $1100.00.  Not enough points to take a vacation with. *
_so maybe all you won't get are upgrades*.   *_*Count yourself lucky if they do not "upgrade you"  That goes for any developer.*

_I've never owned a TS before but have been a diamond-level HiltonHonors member for years so now that I'm in the market it seems to make the most sense to buy Hilton_
_*Hilton Corporation has diamond status.  Hilton Grand Vacation Club has elite status.  Two different corporations.*_

*saying that if I had no problem making the VIP payment, I would be fine with the new payment and would have my foot in the door as an owner.*
*My Father taught me at a young age that if it is consumable, exhaustible, or temporary you should not finance it.  That includes vacations. *

_If you are worried about getting a clean title, buy from Judi Kozwolski. That's what Hilton and Grand Pacific Resorts do and if they buy resales from her, I suspect they trust that the titles are clean._
*Great Idea*
*

*


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 23, 2017)

Judi Kozlowski said:


> _If you are worried about getting a clean title, buy from Judi Kozwolski. That's what Hilton and Grand Pacific Resorts do and if they buy resales from her, I suspect they trust that the titles are clean._
> *Great Idea*



Now Judi, I don't see you post for ages, and the one time you do, you endorse someones endorsement of yourself.  LOL.


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## Talent312 (Apr 23, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Now Judi, I don't see you post for ages, and the one time you do, you endorse someones endorsement of yourself.  LOL.



I suspect that she doesn't feel the need to post becuz the other posters (yourself included) do such an excellent job of advising wayward souls. Either that, or she has a web-crawler that perks its ears whenever there's any mention of her name.

.


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## Hockeyfreak (May 30, 2017)

Question. I got the sales pitch and VERY high pressure to buy at Grand Pacific.  I do like the area, the points and bonus points were OK, and I got the same lies from the sales guy.  During the presentation he showed me a website from Grand Pacific resorts that lets me book weeks for cheap (like RCI), but it was only for the HGVC owners that bought at Carlsbad resorts.  If I bought Carlsbad resale, would I have access to that site also? Thanks for any guidance.

Edit: I found the website, gtxvacations.  It looks like all you have to be is a Grand Pacific owner.  So if I buy resale at Seapointe or Marbrisa, am I a HGVC owner or GP owner, or both?


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## SmithOp (May 30, 2017)

Hockeyfreak said:


> Question. I got the sales pitch and VERY high pressure to buy at Grand Pacific.  I do like the area, the points and bonus points were OK, and I got the same lies from the sales guy.  During the presentation he showed me a website from Grand Pacific resorts that lets me book weeks for cheap (like RCI), but it was only for the HGVC owners that bought at Carlsbad resorts.  If I bought Carlsbad resale, would I have access to that site also? Thanks for any guidance.



Its for anyone that owns a Grand Pacific resort, even resale.  It doesn't need to be one of the HGVC units.

https://gpxvacations.com/exchange/


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## Hockeyfreak (May 31, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> Its for anyone that owns a Grand Pacific resort, even resale.  It doesn't need to be one of the HGVC units.
> 
> https://gpxvacations.com/exchange/



Thank you. I was also wondering if those of those properties on the GTX website are also on RCI ? The prices on it seem very good for renting weeks


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## presley (May 31, 2017)

Hockeyfreak said:


> Thank you. I was also wondering if those of those properties on the GTX website are also on RCI ? The prices on it seem very good for renting weeks


The exact same week won't be listed on more than exchange company at a time. The prices are very good on the GPX website and they will sometimes have sales where you can get those for 50% off. If you own anything within Grand Pacific Resorts, you have access to everything in GPX, including the non Grand Pacific resorts that are listed in there. They often have Wyndham and Blue Green. They probably have other stuff, too, but I am usually only interested in Grand Pacific resorts, so I don't pay much attention to all the additional stuff in there. 

If you think you'd be staying at Grand Pacific locations often and don't mind paying the rental fees + the resort fees, it is worth it to pick up a cheap EOY Grand Pacific unit to have access to all their stuff in GPX. Just keep in mind that normal high demand stuff like a week in Carlsbad in the summer are few and far between for rent. They have tons of off season rentals, though.


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