# GPS for Europe trip...which one?



## pwrshift

I'm going to Europe for a month mid Sept. and will probably rent a car while there. A friend suggested I get a new Garmin GPS set up to read Europe in English.

Going to London, Paris, driving to Nice/Monaco, driving to Milan/Como, driving to Florence, then Rome.

Do you buy a GPS here or there and do you have any recommendations?

 I assume it's easy to convert it back to North America once I'm home?

Thanks.

Brian


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## Dojan123

I used my home tom tom after downloading Europe maps. It worked perfect. I assume Garmin would work just as well. 


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## Passepartout

Why not just rent the GPS along with the car? Unless you want to have one at home as well. You can buy the map cards on eBay, or download maps from the mfr. Not sure if those with 'lifetime maps' will include worldwide map downloads.


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## Ken555

Passepartout said:


> Why not just rent the GPS along with the car?




Because they charge a bloody fortune to rent. Besides, a month of fees would likely pay for several GPS units.

For myself when I go to Europe I simply use my iPhone with a local nav app. There are many options and it's easier and simpler to just use a phone for this purpose when traveling rather than taking another item. Be sure to bring a car power adapter. 


Sent from my iPad


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## pwrshift

Ken, you are right!  GPS rental for just one day is about the cost of buying a GPS.

I looked at the GPS apps but there are so many I dont know where to start, other than 'free' at first.  Do you have one you'd recommend for Europe for the iPhone?

Size:  I'm spoiled as my car GPS is built in and about 8" diag. The iPhone screen seems so small for safe driving while in use...while my iPad might be too big.  A purchased GPS might be a better size...any suggestions on make?

Maps: are they all just for driving or are there some walking maps too?

Adapter:  are car adapters in Europe the same as here?  I have adapters for the hotels rooms but that won't work in the car.

Brian


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## PStreet1

We loved our Garmin in Spain and Italy.  Be sure yours takes chips and buy the maps you need.  They don't cost much from Garmin--and I think they are often on Ebay for even less.

The car we had in Spain had a GPS, but either it didn't work properly or the operators (the two of us) were making many errors--perhaps that's why it was included at no cost?  We were very glad we had our own with us.


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## bevans

*GPS*

I was faced with the same issue last year and did some research. I ended up buying a Garmin that came loaded with Europe and North America maps. I did this so I could use it when I was home even though my main vehicle has built in GPS. I like the Garmin for how simple and accurate it was even though we had an I phone for walking around the Garmin was easier to see and use while traveling. Curt


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## Ken555

pwrshift said:


> Ken, you are right!  GPS rental for just one day is about the cost of buying a GPS.
> 
> I looked at the GPS apps but there are so many I dont know where to start, other than 'free' at first.  Do you have one you'd recommend for Europe for the iPhone?
> 
> Size:  I'm spoiled as my car GPS is built in and about 8" diag. The iPhone screen seems so small for safe driving while in use...while my iPad might be too big.  A purchased GPS might be a better size...any suggestions on make?
> 
> Maps: are they all just for driving or are there some walking maps too?
> 
> Adapter:  are car adapters in Europe the same as here?  I have adapters for the hotels rooms but that won't work in the car.
> 
> Brian




When I was last in England and Italy I downloaded inexpensive (or free) apps which worked well (get used to hearing "take the third exit at the next roundabout"). But, if I was traveling as you intend I would likely purchase a commercial app which has all of Western Europe. TomTom and Garmin offer their map software for iPhone. I bought the TomTom app for the USA when it was first released years ago and I was very pleased with it. For the TomTom app, just go to the App Store and search for "TomTom Europe" and you'll see the Western Europe edition for $50. Garmin StreetPilot is $90 (http://www8.garmin.com/apps/). Garmin also has a new app called viago which is just $0.99 to start and regional maps cost ~$9.99 each. It doesn't have great reviews yet but might be good enough, and is certainly the right price from a good company (I'd suggest downloading the maps at home or at your hotel in Europe). 

If you will have mobile and data service for your phone (which I recommend) you could use a free app such as Waze and is free (which I think is amongst the best options available though it could be confusing with too much info). I'd probably spend the $50 for the TomTom app. But that $50 would go a long way toward paying for iPhone data service, which may prove more valuable. That said, it's not much more expensive, or even about the same price, for a dedicated unit these days. The real savings is simply not taking another device, another power adapter, etc. The Italy and England apps I used did not require data service...I'll check my iPhone if I still have them and will post the info later today if they're still there.

I've used the same map software for walking, but they aren't always best at it. When I was last in London I downloaded a dedicated app which had a detailed street map and I downloaded related software which included Underground and bus times so it offered multiple methods for getting places, including specific train/bus times etc. It was great, even if I didn't take the recommended train (they run often). You may want this for the other cities you intend to visit.

And yes, car power adapters are universal.








Sent from my iPad


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## Passepartout

I'm well aware that renting a GPS from the car rental outfit is very expensive, but if (as Brian has) one built in to his car, and the thing will just end up being stuffed into a drawer when he gets back, is buying one really economical?

Garmin's 'City Guides' (included in the map cards) have walking guidance as well as bus routes, metro lines, etc. while afoot in the cities. They are battery eaters, though, and need a fairly clear view of the sky to get a fix on the satellites. I have used my Garmin Nuvi something-or-other that way, but have to just turn it on, get the directions I need at the moment then turn it back off, or it's dead meat in under an hour.

So the recommendation. Garmin Nuvi (with LM or LMT for 'lifetime maps /traffic) suffix in whatever screen size you feel you need. Get the City Guide cards for Europe on eBay.

Lots of people get by with the GPS feature built into a smartphone, but for me, having to have a data plan, or to remember to download the maps for the day's activities, coupled with (for me) the too-small screen, give it a thumbs down. 

I'm of the $5 paper map set. You can have a shoe box full of paper maps for the price of either of the above. But then, that's soooo '90's.

Jim


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## falmouth3

I had looked into getting the extra maps for my Garmin Nuvi.  I think it was about $69 for all of Europe and less expensive for one country. I ended up paying a bit more for an upgraded car that was supposed to have a GPS.  The car they assigned us had no GPS so they gave us a portable GPS and programmed it in "English" for us.  The voice had a strong German accent and gave directions partially in German (the A8, for instance, was pronounced in German).  You may want to get maps here and load them onto your current GPS or buy one with maps already loaded.


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## pwrshift

The data thing is something I didn't even think about. I don't have data on my iPhone outside of Canada at the moment as I don't want the high roaming fees...so it stops at our border.  I have a North America phone plan (not data) but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include Europe.

Printed maps may save the day after all. 

Because I'm in Europe for a month I will probably have to get an iPhone SIM card (never done it before) to use in case of emergencies on the road. I assume my current iPhone won't work there but if it does it will probably be very expensive.

How do SIM cards work? Do they have data as well? Does one SIM card cover all of western Europe (I'll be in UK, France and Italy)?

Maybe I should just take trains.    Might be a lot simpler than driving...and probably cheaper.

Thanks for your help.

Brian


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## Passepartout

Brian, my help may be limited because I'm not of the i-persuasion. I have an unlocked phone that accepts almost universally available SIM cards. They open it to voice, data, texts, the whole shebang. You can get them anywhere from Walmart to a corner phone kiosk. Mine fits in a slot under the battery and is about a 15 second operation to change. Some can be used in all of Europe, but the cheapest ones are specific to a single country. It's my understanding that i-Phones use a different type of card to access a network. Your phone still needs to be unlocked in order to roam cheaply.

You might consider calling your cellular carrier and asking about international roaming plans. Sometimes I just turn on our AT&T Int's plan for the months we are abroad and consider it's just for emergency use at a dollar or so a minute instead of $6 or so roaming.

Regardless, when I go abroad and am simply too cheap to buy a card, or just want phone access for occasionally calling and keeping in touch with the home-folks, I just use Skype. It's a free app, costs bare pennies a minute, and works whenever you have a wi-fi connection.

I posted this elsewhere and it's phone centric rather than GPS, but here is Rick Steves' take on cell phones in Europe anyway: http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/phones-tech/cell-phone-europe

Jim


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## geekette

garmin.  Aside from buying the maps you need, it has pedestrian and bike routes so you can plan your route based on mode of transport.  I'm a lot happier stopping in to interesting places when I don't have to find a parking spot first.

I am directionally impaired and feel a lot better knowing I can set off on foot and get back "on my own".  I wandered too far in Dublin and actually got a little scared.  I would have been much happier with the Garmin to help me but did not yet have one.


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## geekette

pwrshift said:


> The data thing is something I didn't even think about. I don't have data on my iPhone outside of Canada at the moment as I don't want the high roaming fees...so it stops at our border.  I have a North America phone plan (not data) but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include Europe.
> 
> Printed maps may save the day after all.
> 
> Because I'm in Europe for a month I will probably have to get an iPhone SIM card (never done it before) to use in case of emergencies on the road. I assume my current iPhone won't work there but if it does it will probably be very expensive.
> 
> How do SIM cards work? Do they have data as well? Does one SIM card cover all of western Europe (I'll be in UK, France and Italy)?
> 
> Maybe I should just take trains.    Might be a lot simpler than driving...and probably cheaper.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Brian



DEFINITELY look into trains!!!  You can get Europasses rather inexpensively.   Super convenient.   Clean and not cramped, in my experience.  We had a booth with a table, played cards, had a snack.

Look into Lonely Planet guides, they have a habit of pointing out the great stuff that you don't find out about otherwise with great little topical maps.


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## Ken555

Passepartout said:


> I'm well aware that renting a GPS from the car rental outfit is very expensive, but if (as Brian has) one built in to his car, and the thing will just end up being stuffed into a drawer when he gets back, is buying one really economical?



If you end up paying more than the cost of a new unit in rental fees, why advocate renting? I don't get it.



> Lots of people get by with the GPS feature built into a smartphone, but for me, having to have a data plan, or to remember to download the maps for the day's activities, coupled with (for me) the too-small screen, give it a thumbs down.



Data plans are not required for all navigation apps. That's why I specifically mentioned downing the maps prior to leaving or buying one of the apps which includes the maps.



> I'm of the $5 paper map set. You can have a shoe box full of paper maps for the price of either of the above. But then, that's soooo '90's.




Nothing wrong with a paper map!


Sent from my iPad


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## Ken555

pwrshift said:


> Maybe I should just take trains.    Might be a lot simpler than driving...and probably cheaper.




Somehow I had assumed you had specific reasons for driving. The trains in Europe are fantastic and way better and easier than driving. In England I've rented cars since the trains don't go everywhere I needed to visit, and in Italy my cousins rented a van also to get to specific places. I don't know of any good reason to drive between cities unless you intend to visit specific places and want the flexibility of a car. 

When I was last in Europe I took the train on this itinerary, almost all on high speed trains:

London - Amsterdam
Amsterdam - Berlin
Berlin - Bonn
Bonn - Frankfurt

Very simple. Much easier than flying or driving. I'm considering a trip next year to Europe and now in the planning stages but for instance just last week a friend recommended I take the train from St Petersburg to Moscow (it's only a ~4.5h train trip, while somehow I thought it was much longer).


Sent from my iPad


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## levatino

Yes, Ken is correct.  There are many good IPhone and android based GPS programs.

I use copilot.  

Also I have a tom tom 920.  Honestly, I bring both in case one fails.

paul


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## Pompey Family

pwrshift said:


> Because I'm in Europe for a month I will probably have to get an iPhone SIM card (never done it before) to use in case of emergencies on the road. I assume my current iPhone won't work there but if it does it will probably be very expensive.
> 
> How do SIM cards work? Do they have data as well? Does one SIM card cover all of western Europe (I'll be in UK, France and Italy)?



My advice would be to visit your nearest Three store when you're in the UK (they're everywhere!) and obtain a pay as you go micro sim card for your iPhone. For £15 you can have unlimited data, 300 minutes and 3000 texts for 30 days. The additional bonus with Three is that there are no roaming or data charges for Italy or France and even the US. I've also found the Three network to be far better than Vodafone, O2, Tmobile etc.

You'll also have to unlock your phone if it isn't already or use an alternative phone that is.


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## persia

Basically a SIM card carries your phone's network identification information n a GSM phone (about 90% of the world and 40% of the US uses GSM).  On an iPhone there's a small drawer that pops open with a paper clip (an Apple standard tool since the '70s), depending on model it's either on the top or side of the phone.  

If you are with Rogers or Telus, the slot will be occupied by their sim card.  You will need to keep it in the phone until you leave Canada and then replace it with a European carrier's SIM.

One important note, if you bought the phone on a discount as part of a service contract, the SIM is software locked to the company you have the contract with.  You will need to contact them to see if they will unlock your phone.  If the contract is over or the company uses CDMA (a GSM competitor which works only in North America), they will likely do this for you.  Rogers will unlock your phone for a $50 fee!

Good Luck.



pwrshift said:


> The data thing is something I didn't even think about. I don't have data on my iPhone outside of Canada at the moment as I don't want the high roaming fees...so it stops at our border.  I have a North America phone plan (not data) but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include Europe.
> 
> Printed maps may save the day after all.
> 
> Because I'm in Europe for a month I will probably have to get an iPhone SIM card (never done it before) to use in case of emergencies on the road. I assume my current iPhone won't work there but if it does it will probably be very expensive.
> 
> How do SIM cards work? Do they have data as well? Does one SIM card cover all of western Europe (I'll be in UK, France and Italy)?
> 
> Maybe I should just take trains.    Might be a lot simpler than driving...and probably cheaper.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Brian


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## GetawaysRus

Dojan123 said:


> I used my home tom tom after downloading Europe maps. It worked perfect. I assume Garmin would work just as well.



I'm also a TomTom user.  Used TomTom maps in Spain (Costa del Sol, Seville, Cordoba, Granada) and also in Italy (driving from Milan to Cinque Terre to Pisa to several towns in Tuscany) without any major issues.  Driving in some of those older cities would have been very difficult without the GPS.  A few caveats:

1. You might have your GPS on for some time.  So I purchased a recharger that could plug into the rental car's cigarette lighter to keep the GPS going.

2. My TomTom has limited internal memory.  When it was time for us to visit Italy, I had to uninstall the Spain map (this means saving it to your hard drive using the TomTom software) in order to make adequate room on the device for the Italy map.

3. We did have one problem with the GPS is Seville, Spain.  Our hotel was in the old section of the city (very near the cathedral).  The streets here are very narrow, and because of this sometimes I would lose the GPS signal.  Even though the buildings are not that tall, it appeared that they would sometimes block the satellite signal when the street was very narrow.  This made navigating to our Seville hotel quite a challenge.  (I navigate and my wife drives.  When the GPS fails, you can guess who gets yelled at...)  My advice: if you are driving to the center of a very old city, you may also want to have some printed Google maps available (at fairly high magnification) to help guide you those last few blocks if the narrow streets cause the GPS to conk out.


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## pwrshift

Thanks for all the ideas.  Btw my iPhone was purchased direct from Apple for about $800 unlocked a few years back (4s) so I shouldn't have SIM problems.  I'll certainly check out the Three Store in London as I'm there 3 days at the start...thanks.

Regarding the GPS, my original plans were to rent a car when leaving Paris and to drive for 10 days through southern France, Riviera(s), up to Como/Milan, then down to Rome...not a very relaxing task.  Then I found that car rentals don't like you taking a Paris car to Rome and put on a hefty drop off fee of about 2000 euros.  So I've decided to train it to Nice and car rent there for 3-4 days, train it to Milan as a 5 nite home base and rent a car there for 3-4 days, and then train to Rome for the last 7 nights.  So the need for a GPS isn't as high as I first thought.  

But I downloaded a few GPS apps you've mentioned and they were very big downloads with maps...might just be easier to take my daughter's Garmin with downloaded maps.

The Rick Steve's link was great in helping this decision...thanks for that.  I'm not big on trains...the Chunnel will be the first train trip in maybe 30 years!  But by the time I get home I'll be an expert.   

Just hope nobody steals our suitcases from the luggage racks.

Planning this trip has been fun but so time consuming.  It is really only affordable because of Marriott Rewards that got us biz class air and 3 nights at London Marriott Pancras, 7 nights at Marriott Opera in Paris, 5 nights in Monaco Marriott, 5 nights at Milan Boscolo, followed by 7 nights at Rome Westin Excelsior (on Starwood points).  Can't imagine what that would all cost in euros.

Whew.  The stress load has been relaxed thanks to you Tuggers helping me.

Ken...Good luck planning your trip.

Brian



Ken555 said:


> Somehow I had assumed you had specific reasons for driving. The trains in Europe are fantastic and way better and easier than driving. In England I've rented cars since the trains don't go everywhere I needed to visit, and in Italy my cousins rented a van also to get to specific places. I don't know of any good reason to drive between cities unless you intend to visit specific places and want the flexibility of a car.
> 
> When I was last in Europe I took the train on this itinerary, almost all on high speed trains:
> 
> London - Amsterdam
> Amsterdam - Berlin
> Berlin - Bonn
> Bonn - Frankfurt
> 
> Very simple. Much easier than flying or driving. I'm considering a trip next year to Europe and now in the planning stages but for instance just last week a friend recommended I take the train from St Petersburg to Moscow (it's only a ~4.5h train trip, while somehow I thought it was much longer).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad


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## Pompey Family

pwrshift said:


> Thanks for all the ideas.  Btw my iPhone was purchased direct from Apple for about $800 unlocked a few years back (4s) so I shouldn't have SIM problems.  I'll certainly check out the Three Store in London as I'm there 3 days at the start...thanks.



Here's the link to the Three site so that you can see what they offer. http://www.three.co.uk

Even if you're going to swap the driving for the train I would say that having unlimited data usage in the UK, France and Italy on your phone is very useful.

Enjoy your trip, that must have been a LOT of points accrued for that!


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## pwrshift

Thanks for the link.  Other than the comfort of going English, I have concerns that Three is UK based while I'll only be there 3 days.  Wouldn't a French or Italian company be better as I'll be 2 weeks there and almost 2 weeks in Italy?

I'm also concerned about losing the original SIM card as it's so small.  How do you know what data is on your SIM card and how to save it (iCloud?) so it wouldn't be a disaster to misplace the original card?

Yes...it took a lot of points but I've had several million of them over the years...perhaps a benefit of buying all my weeks direct and trading two each year for more points.  No regrets as I would think the way I've used the points on MR air+hotel pkgs has saved me more than what I paid Marriott for all the weeks since the mid 90s.  I would never pay the biz class cash fares to fly but with points it only takes about 50% more than economy.  A nice way to go...that feels like it's 'free'...plus when you die so do your points.  

Brian



Pompey Family said:


> Here's the link to the Three site so that you can see what they offer. http://www.three.co.uk
> 
> Even if you're going to swap the driving for the train I would say that having unlimited data usage in the UK, France and Italy on your phone is very useful.
> 
> Enjoy your trip, that must have been a LOT of points accrued for that!


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## Ken555

pwrshift said:


> Thanks for the link.  Other than the comfort of going English, I have concerns that Three is UK based while I'll only be there 3 days.  Wouldn't a French or Italian company be better as I'll be 2 weeks there and almost 2 weeks in Italy?



Don't underestimate the comfort of having the service support you in English. When I was last in Italy I had Italian sims for my iPhone and mifi. The website was in Italian, the support line was in Italian, all messages from the service were in Italian. I don't speak Italian. Not a good combination. I got it to work with the help of a very friendly hotel front desk and assistance purchasing it from our driver the first day (we hired a car to go from Milan to Bellagio and stopped in Como to purchase these items). 

The plans (and laws re usability without excess roaming fees) have only recently changed in the EU (and I don't follow it closely so you may want to read up before your trip), which - I believe - now require service from one country to be roam-free in another. I'd jump at the chance of using a UK service in future. Last time I was there I made the mistake of buying a 3 sim at the hotel the first night, and they didn't know which sim to give me and it failed. Next time I will likely just purchase a sim at Heathrow (they are in self service units past customs, tho you need pound notes or a chip and pin credit card...there are ATMs nearby). 





> I'm also concerned about losing the original SIM card as it's so small.  How do you know what data is on your SIM card and how to save it (iCloud?) so it wouldn't be a disaster to misplace the original card?



Don't lose it. I put it in a plastic bag and kept it in my laptop bag throughout my trip.






Sent from my iPad


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## Johnsp

I have been to Europe more than 2 dozen times.  I always used maps when driving until I bought a Tom Tom with Europe maps four trips ago.  The Tom Tom works beautifully and I will now never travel Europe without it.  I take maps for planning but when driving it is Tom Tom all the way.  I have never been lost since I started using it.


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## RichardL

I found having a suction cup on the window with a large screen plug into my
lighter for long drives through the countryside to be far superior to using my
iphone.  I got to the point that I preferred the large screen to navigate a UK
roundabout, that I turned off the voice option.

I purchased a Garmin in the UK, but with Vat tax etc, I think it is easier to buy it here.

What I need to do is use it in the US for a week to get used to how it operates differently that my in-dash GPS.  I would never drive Europe without one.


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## pwrshift

I was looking at Europe GPS's at Amazon and there are different sizes and brands. Which would you recommend ... Garmin or TomTom? Might save me 'map' space on my IPhone.

 There are tons of variables and prices..from $80 to over $600.  Very confusing.  I think if I bought I'd want North America too as I am not elsewhere as much.  I assume NA is an extra in these cases.  A lot of them have been discontinued...but still close to the original list prices.  I assume newer is better?

Can they be used effectively for walking tours? 

And if you do use it outside, will the sun blank out the screen like it does on an iPad?  Two examples:

http://www.amazon.com/TomTom-Travel...571&sr=8-1&keywords=gps+europe+maps+preloaded


http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Widesc...787&sr=8-8&keywords=gps+europe+maps+preloaded


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## Passepartout

I prefer Garmin over Tom-Tom. Only because Garmin is the go-to brand in aircraft GPS. The age of the unit is not as important as the age of the map database in it. I'd buy one of the NUVI line with a suffix of LM (stands for Lifetime Maps) so that you can just download new maps when a new database comes out. Actually, the roadways don't change that much, that often, but the restaurants, shopping centers, other retail establishments you might want to be directed to, do change fairly frequently. You can also get one with the suffix LMT- which supposedly directs you around heavy traffic.

I tried mine on foot, but frankly, it goes through battery power so quickly that it's of little practical value. And in cities where you are on foot, the device is slow to acquire a fix on enough satellites to be of much value because of tall buildings blocking clear view of the sky. Maybe the smartphone app is better for this.

I'd buy one with the North American database installed, then a card (on eBay) containing the European maps to slip into the device when there. If it's a little outdated, what difference does it make? They haven't moved the cities, roads, museums, hotels recently.

Jim


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## Pompey Family

I also prefer Garmin. I originally had a Tom Tom which I found took ages to locate a satellite when being switched on. I then started using Garmin at work and found it to be faster and more reliable so I replaced my Tom Tom with a Garmin Nuvi and haven't looked back.

If however you are looking for usage when walking then I would not consider a GPS, I would stick to a phone. The phones use the mobile masts that are situated everywhere in towns and cities whilst the GPS relies on satellites and the loss of a signal whilst walking around a well built city is frustratingly common.


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## ilene13

Last time we were in Europe my travel agent had us rent a GPS from a company who loaded in our entire itinerary.  I think the cost was $150 for 3 weeks.  We are going to Spain in September and we are doing the same thing.  If you are interested in the exact information, sent me a PM and I will get it for you.


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