# KoOlina Beach Club Foreclosures



## jsfletch (Nov 29, 2011)

Any comments or input on the sixty or so Beach Club T/S being sold at foreclosure on 12/20/2011? Honolulu Advertiser published this list on Tues 11/29/2011. Seems like an awfully lot of Foreclosures for this complex. Really sad to read this.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 29, 2011)

jsfletch said:


> Any comments or input on the sixty or so Beach Club T/S being sold at foreclosure on 12/20/2011? Honolulu Advertiser published this list on Tues 11/29/2011. Seems like an awfully lot of Foreclosures for this complex. Really sad to read this.






Sixty weeks is really nothing at all.   If there are 200 Villas there then there are 10,400 weeks, so 60 weeks is just a drop in the bucket!




.


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## jsfletch (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for the perspective. Do you think it would be worth while to bid on these.?


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## BocaBoy (Nov 29, 2011)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Sixty weeks is really nothing at all.   If there are 200 Villas there then there are 10,400 weeks, so 60 weeks is just a drop in the bucket!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are actually a lot more than 200 villas at Ko Olina.  It is the largest Marriott timeshare in Hawaii and on of the largest in the whole system.  There will be 750 villas at full build-out, although the current number is probably closer to 400-500.


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## puppymommo (Nov 29, 2011)

Where did you find the list?  Can you post a link?  I looked at the Star Advertiser website but couldn't find anything about the foreclosures.

Thanks.

Not that I should even be looking at them, but I'd like to...


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## gblotter (Nov 29, 2011)

puppymommo said:


> Where did you find the list?  Can you post a link?  I looked at the Star Advertiser website but couldn't find anything about the foreclosures.


I think this is probably the list:  http://secure.adpay.com/clicknbuyli...orkview=False&catid=1004&pcatid=Legal Notices


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## ownsmany (Nov 29, 2011)

I shouldn't be looking at them either . . .


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## gblotter (Nov 29, 2011)

These are the units listed in the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

Does anyone have a decoder ring to determine which of these are Mountain View and Ocean View.  It would also be good to know if any of these are 3BR units, penthouse units, or Platinum Plus weeks.

I have requested a fact sheet to learn more information.  For fact sheets, instructions or further particulars, contact Mary Shumack, Phone 808-679-4903, M-F, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

Annual Usage
==========
KO*0414A14   
KO*0513A45                  
KO*0514A36                   
KO*0520A35                   
KO*0621A24                   
KO*0622A32                   
KO*0814A07                   
KO*1005A31                   
KO*1203A21                   
KO*2202B06                   
KO*2202B51                   
KO*2410B04                   
KO*2427B51                   
KO*2507B06                   
KO*2519B25           
KO*2522B02
KO*2618B34
KO*2627B31
KO*2627B41
KO*2631B50
KO*2714B31
KO*2719B02
KO*2830B09
KO*2902B27
KO*2926B13
KO*3002B42
KO*3114B10
KO*3214B20
KO*3223B49
KO*3223B50
KO*3518B32

EOY Even
==========
KO*0422A30*E
KO*2123B01*E
KO*2418B50*E
KO*2623B24*E
KO*2626B43*E
KO*2723B23*E
KO*2723B23*E
KO*2910B46*E
KO*3118B47*E
KO*3518B28*E
KO*3519B24*E
KO*4210C05*E
KO*4306C17*E
KO*5019C13*E
KO*5215C11*E

EOY Odd
==========
KO*0428A38*X
KO*0428A44*X
KO*2231B27*X
KO*2319B35*X
KO*2615B21*X
KO*2706B45*X
KO*2719B44*X
KO*2722B24*X
KO*2726B18*X
KO*3418B41*X
KO*3419B15*X
KO*3515B36*X
KO*5019C05*X
KO*5219C27*X


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## RBERR1 (Nov 30, 2011)

Just curious do foreclosure auction purchases have to go through ROFR?


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## ral (Nov 30, 2011)

Are these being sold by Marriott and, if so, are they eligible for Destination Club membership?


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## GregT (Nov 30, 2011)

gblotter said:


> These are the units listed in the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.
> 
> Does anyone have a decoder ring to determine which of these are Mountain View and Ocean View.  It would also be good to know if any of these are 3BR units, penthouse units, or Platinum Plus weeks.
> 
> ...



I believe these are accurate, based upon the room numbers from MKO units deposited into the Trust.....For Buildings B (Hale Moana) and Building C (Hale Naia), the pattern is easy:  Even *Unit Codes *numbers are OV and Odd *Unit Codes *are MV in Buildings B and C.   I don't see any 3BR's in the list above (Unit Code 18 in Hale Naia -- don't know in Hale Moana).

I've not been successful in figuring out the View Category pattern of Building 1 from the Ko Olina trust deposits...but I **think** all of the Building 1's above are Mountain View.

I hope this helps some TUGger in Hawaii buy a Ko Olina at the foreclosure.

Best,

Greg


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## GregT (Nov 30, 2011)

All,

In a separate thread, Larue has indicated that the room numbers in Hale Naia don't correlate with the Unit Codes in the Trust filings.    As an example, in the Trust filings, the 3BR in Hale Naia is Coded as Unit 18 -- but in actuality, they are room numbers 21 and 23 in Hale Naia.

So, I've edited the above to confirm that the room numbers do not correlate with the Unit Code.

I remain confident, however, that the View Categories are correct (in red above) since this is comparing the Unit Code in the foreclosure filings to the Unit Codes in the Trust filings -- which are consistent.  I just couldn't tell you which room number it is.

Thanks and good luck!

Greg


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## larryallen (Nov 30, 2011)

jsfletch said:


> Thanks for the perspective. Do you think it would be worth while to bid on these.?



Probably easier to buy on Ebay.


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## gblotter (Nov 30, 2011)

Custom House in Boston did a similar foreclosure auction on September 1 - learn more about that here: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154467

There is another Custom House foreclosure auction coming up on December 16 - see http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158701

From the Custom House experience, it seems that just showing up may put you in a good position to get some great bargains.  Unfortunately you'll need to add in the price of Honolulu airfare to attend this auction in-person, so that may complicate things a bit.


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## gblotter (Nov 30, 2011)

I received the information packed about the foreclosure auctions.

As it turns out there are four different auctions to be held, and foreclosed units will be sold from all the Marriott timeshare properties in Hawaii.  There is a combination of mortgage foreclosures and lien foreclosures.  There are relatively few lien foreclosures (only 8 total) and those are for non-payment of maintenance fees.

December 20, 7:45am in Lihue
Kauai Beach Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 6 units
Kauai Beach Club Lien Foreclosures = 3 units
Waiohai Mortgage Foreclosures = 24 units
Waiohai Lien Foreclosures = 1 unit

December 20, 11:15am in Wailuku
Maui Ocean Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 58 units
Maui Ocean Club Lien Foreclosures = 4 units

December 20, 3:00pm in Honolulu
Ko Olina Beach Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 59 units

December 21, 12:00pm in Honolulu
Assortment of all Marriott Hawaii Timeshare properties
Kauai Beach Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 11 units
Ko Olina Beach Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 75 units
Maui Ocean Club Mortgage Foreclosures = 89 units
Waiohai Mortgage Foreclosures = 46 units

I have not read the details to understand why the fourth auction is being held on December 21, but I'm sure there must be some distinction that separates those sales from the others.

As you can tell, there are a significant number of foreclosures that will be auctioned off.  I'm assuming that Marriott may be the only bidder in many cases.


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## Dewnay (Dec 1, 2011)

From Mary Shumack, the Marriott Broker-in-Charge:

 - The first two letters indicate the property.
 - The next four numbers indicate the villa number.
 - The next letter indicates the building (A=Kona, B=Moana, C=Naia).
 - The next two numbers are the week 1-52.
 - The last letter after the asterisk is the usage frequency [X=every other year odd, E=every other year even, B=both (every year)].

Oftentimes, every-year usage drops the "B" so if there is no "E" or "X", then one can assume it is an interest with every-year usage rights. 

Finally, sales of this nature are treated as an open market, external purchase meaning that it is ineligible for conversion into Marriott Rewards points and enrollment into the MVCD points program.  The owners only usage options would be to occupy or deposit with Interval International and exchange.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2011)

I think we'll probably be seeing more and more similar auctions for the different resorts, because this past year many (all?) of the BOD's/HOA's elected non-judicial foreclosure processes for non-payment.  Seems like it should be a good thing to get them re-sold as quickly as possible with minimal cost to the other owners, but it is a little off-putting to see so many at one time.  Thanks for the perspective, TimeTraveler - that helps take the edge off.   

When TUGger Beaglemom3 went to the Custom House auction some of those Weeks were offered the MRP-exchange benefit as well as the DC-enrollment option.  It'll be interesting to watch and learn why/when those can be offered.


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## gblotter (Dec 1, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Seems like it should be a good thing to get them re-sold as quickly as possible with minimal cost to the other owners, but it is a little off-putting to see so many at one time.


I also view this as a good thing.  With these auctions being held in December, the buyers (whether they be Marriott or individuals) will be on the hook to pay the 2012 maintenance fees.  So that should ease the burden on other owners.



SueDonJ said:


> When TUGger Beaglemom3 went to the Custom House auction some of those Weeks were offered the MRP-exchange benefit as well as the DC-enrollment option.  It'll be interesting to watch and learn why/when those can be offered.


Given that Marriott will likely be the only bidder for many/most of these sales, it probably does not matter much whether the units come with MRP and/or DC benefits.


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## rudy (Dec 2, 2011)

*what about EOY*

Do you believe Marriott will buy back any of the every other year properties.... I thought I read somewhere that the every other year properties could not be added to the trust...If this is true I would  believe Marriot would not buy them back.... your thoughts?


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## abdibile (Dec 2, 2011)

At Custom House the pattern looked like they are mainly buying back the units where they are owed a lot of money on the mortgage. Probably it does not matter to Mariott if they pay up to what is owed to them or let someone else get the unit and write down the differenc to what is owed to Marriott as a loss on the mortgage.

At Custom House it seemed like they were not willing to pay more than $4,000 for the non payment of MF auctions.


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## sdtugger (Dec 6, 2011)

gblotter said:


> I received the information packed about the foreclosure auctions.
> 
> As it turns out there are four different auctions to be held, and foreclosed units will be sold from all the Marriott timeshare properties in Hawaii.  There is a combination of mortgage foreclosures and lien foreclosures.  There are relatively few lien foreclosures (only 8 total) and those are for non-payment of maintenance fees.
> 
> ...



OK, it just so happens (well, actually I've planned this for a year . . . ) that I will be in Maui on December 20.  Where can I read more about the Maui auction?  And, is there somewhere to go to research the process?  Thanks!


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## Beaglemom3 (Dec 6, 2011)

Edited post.

Sorry, did not see the post that said that there are no Rewards points with these. I think that may drive down the prices for those who do not care about the points.


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## sdtugger (Dec 6, 2011)

*Maui*

OK, I received the Maui packets.  How do I find out what the views are and whether they are mortgage defaults or maintenance fee defaults?  Also, why are some Maui units being sold in Honolulu and some on Maui?  I'm happy to do my own research.  But, I'm not sure where to look.  Thanks.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 6, 2011)

sdtugger said:


> OK, I received the Maui packets.  How do I find out what the views are and whether they are mortgage defaults or maintenance fee defaults?  Also, why are some Maui units being sold in Honolulu and some on Maui?  I'm happy to do my own research.  But, I'm not sure where to look.  Thanks.



Mortgage and maintenance fee defaults shouldn't matter. They are in the foreclosure sale because of default. When you buy them, you buy them free and clear or these liens.


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## gblotter (Dec 6, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Mortgage and maintenance fee defaults shouldn't matter. They are in the foreclosure sale because of default. When you buy them, you buy them free and clear or these liens.


Likely Marriott will be the only bidder for most of these auctions.  In the event that multiple bidders exist for a given unit, Marriott will bid up the price to at least what is owed on the lien.  Because of this, there won't be any bargains to be found for the mortgage lien foreclosures.  The amounts owed will be surely be quite high.

However, for the maintenance fee lien foreclosures a much lower selling price is possible.  There are only four maintenance fee lien foreclosures at Maui Ocean Club, so your choices will be limited.  The amounts owed for the maintenance fee liens are listed in the auction information docs.  You can examine those amounts to determine whether they are a bargain compared to what can be found on eBay or Redweek.


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## rudy (Dec 6, 2011)

*No Bargains for most of US*

I talked to the lawyer  Rodney Grant handling the auction... He told me that you must attend in person and that the units will be sold in blocks.. ie. all Maui units in one block, all Ko-olina in another block.. they break these large blocks into samller blocks at Marriott's discretion.  Bottom line is that you will likely have to buy multiple units as in  10-20.  

THis leaves me out of the hunt... but for you investors out there.... go to it.


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## bradsprague (Dec 15, 2011)

*After the auction*

I am planning on having a representative to bid for me on an MKO unit.

Anyone have a suggestion on who could handle all closing details for me?

Brad


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 15, 2011)

rudy said:


> I talked to the lawyer  Rodney Grant handling the auction... He told me that you must attend in person and that the units will be sold in blocks.. ie. all Maui units in one block, all Ko-olina in another block.. they break these large blocks into samller blocks at Marriott's discretion.  Bottom line is that you will likely have to buy multiple units as in  10-20.



How convenient for Marriott.


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## Time2Buy (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone going to the auction today?

Greg


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## betsy2010 (Dec 20, 2011)

*info for today - anyone?*

Hey Greg I was thinking of going just to check it out.  We're about 30 minutes away and I can't find the details (the page is no longer up)

does anyone have all of the original star advertiser post they could post with the details on location, etc?

thanks
bd


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## Time2Buy (Dec 21, 2011)

Betsy,

Sorry, I didn't see your post until late last night. Did you find the location of the auction?

Greg


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## mdonato (Dec 21, 2011)

I have been to quite a few auctions over the years and if there is a mortgage the starting bid is $1 over that.  So if there is an oustanding mortgage of $10000 then the starting bid is $10001.  Plus often times if an owner isnt paying mortgage they are also not paying the maint fees.  Also in Hawaii at least in the past they do group of sales where they sell a large group of like 10 timeshares at a time.  So you are stuck with the good and the bad.  They go for about $80k.  There has been auctions for all timeshare pretty monthly regularly since they got started.  One thing is Marriott used to take much longer to forclose on properties then they are today.   They arent playing around!  Any units that I have purchased in the past have come with the reward points benefit I believe.  I will check again though to confirm.


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## mdonato (Dec 21, 2011)

bradsprague said:


> I am planning on having a representative to bid for me on an MKO unit.
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion on who could handle all closing details for me?
> 
> Brad



Marriott will have a closing company handle everything.  In the past they have had FA do them.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 21, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> I have been to quite a few auctions over the years and if there is a mortgage the starting bid is $1 over that.  So if there is an oustanding mortgage of $10000 then the starting bid is $10001.  Plus often times if an owner isnt paying mortgage they are also not paying the maint fees.  Also in Hawaii at least in the past they do group of sales where they sell a large group of like 10 timeshares at a time.  So you are stuck with the good and the bad.  They go for about $80k.  There has been auctions for all timeshare pretty monthly regularly since they got started.  *One thing is Marriott used to take much longer to forclose on properties then they are today.   They arent playing around!*  Any units that I have purchased in the past have come with the reward points benefit I believe.  I will check again though to confirm.



Many of the resort HOA's/BOD's elected last year to allow non-judicial foreclosure proceedings for non-payment of MF's and mortgages.  I agree they're not playing around, and this is one way they've made it simpler and quicker for them to turn around the non-performing inventory.

It's interesting to learn about the block sales, didn't realize those were an option.  If you purchase a block, can you then re-sell them as individual Weeks?


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## betsy2010 (Dec 21, 2011)

*no one showed at "auction"*

ok, I'm pissed.  My mom and I went to the appropriate location at the appropriate time yesterday for the Ko Olina Auction (3PM @ 415 S Beretania on the steps of the rotunda facing the queen whoever statue).  No one showed, no posting of a reschedule, no answer from Ronald or his assistant.  I bet they went through with the sale and Marriott turns out to be the 'only' bidder.  not true!  grrrrrr


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## gblotter (Dec 21, 2011)

betsy2010 said:


> ok, I'm pissed.  My mom and I went to the appropriate location at the appropriate time yesterday for the Ko Olina Auction (3PM @ 415 S Beretania on the steps of the rotunda facing the queen whoever statue).  No one showed, no posting of a reschedule, no answer from Ronald or his assistant.  I bet they went through with the sale and Marriott turns out to be the 'only' bidder.  not true!  grrrrrr


From what the auction document says, you were at the right place at the right time.  I would be upset too.

There is supposed to be another auction today (12/21) at noon in Honolulu at a different location.  Wonder if anyone will be there.  December 21, 2010 beginning at 12:00 noon, on the Court Lanai fronting the Circuit Court of the First Circuit, 777 Punchbowl Street, Honolulu, Hawaii.


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## betsy2010 (Dec 21, 2011)

*all sold in one batch for $1.1 million back to Marriott*

1st of all the woman at the law firm swears they held the auction on the steps (where we were and they were NOT)  we got there within minutes of 3pm and no one was there and some employees from the capitol said no one had been there for a while, so IF they did the auction they did it earlier than 3pm.

second, they sold them all in ONE batch (no opportunity to even bid for 10 at a time!) and since the only bidder who (they say) showed up couldn't afford that they reverted to the lender (I'm assuming Marriott) for $1.1 million.

sheesh what a racket and what a waste of time!
best,
bd


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## GregT (Dec 21, 2011)

betsy2010 said:


> 1st of all the woman at the law firm swears they held the auction on the steps (where we were and they were NOT)  we got there within minutes of 3pm and no one was there and some employees from the capitol said no one had been there for a while, so IF they did the auction they did it earlier than 3pm.
> 
> second, they sold them all in ONE batch (no opportunity to even bid for 10 at a time!) and since the only bidder who (they say) showed up couldn't afford that they reverted to the lender (I'm assuming Marriott) for $1.1 million.
> 
> ...



This is for 60 or so weeks?  $1.1M?  That's a little under $20K/week?

Hmmmm.....Marriott is welcome to them.

Thanks for the info, interesting to follow!

Best,

Greg


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## gblotter (Dec 21, 2011)

GregT said:


> This is for 60 or so weeks?  $1.1M?  That's a little under $20K/week?
> 
> Hmmmm.....Marriott is welcome to them.


For mortgage foreclosures, I would expect the amount owed to be quite high - and for that reason no bargains should be be anticipated at auction time.  That could be the justification for grouping all of them together.  If everyone involved (including non-Marriott bidders) realizes that you can buy a unit on the resale market for much cheaper, why go through the tedious process of doing this 59 times?

For maintenance fee lien foreclosures, the amount owed may be much lower so perhaps a deal could be found on those auctions.  However, I didn't notice any Ko Olina lien foreclosures when I examined the auction documentation.

I couldn't determine the differentiating factor for the units being sold at auction on December 21st.  For some reason those units were not included in the December 20th auctions, but I have no idea why they needed to be sold separately.  Perhaps they are being foreclosed because of both unpaid mortgage payments AND unpaid maintenance fees (pure speculation on my part).


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