# Purchased Contract - Considering Rescind



## MChaf (Aug 18, 2013)

Hello all.  Like some here, or at least as is evident from several forums threads, I just purchased a Wyndham TS and the found out about PUG afterwards.  My contracts specifics are a Plus account with my home base in the Towers and Mrytle Beach.  The contract is for 154K points and cost me $25K with a referral "discount". I went through the presentation last Thursday and still have time to rescind.  In NJ, we get a week to review contracts.

Apparently, after reading the forums here at PUG, I significantly overpaid.  I checked out EBay and saw what appears to be similar contracts for a fraction of the cost.  Am I correct in this assessment?  I would really like some help as I am completely new to timeshares, but found the flexible point system with Wyndham very appealing.

I'm not tied to Mrytle Beach as my home base.  In fact, I wasn't even given an option.  And I have no interest in VIP status.  So, my conclusion is I should rescind and seek a similar contract through EBay or another reseller.  Any help and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Many thanks!


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 18, 2013)

The rescind period is set by the STATE you were in when YOU signed the purchase agreement.

READ YOUR CONTRACT - look near/above the lines you signed. Some states have only a 3 DAY RESCIND. And it is calendar day counting - counting holidays or weekends as days during the rescind period. And I would not want to BET $25,000 on thinking ANYTHING else.

And last Thursday -- was that the Aug 14 date? If it was Aug 7, you can try to cancel - but I am betting you own an expensive TS.


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## ronparise (Aug 18, 2013)

Yes you can buy the same thing for much much less. For
Hundreds of dollars, not thousands of dollars

Rescind and read and learn and buy on the secondary market


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 18, 2013)

I have brought several eBay Wyndham points contracts. 

Yes, they are sold for chump change - as low as $1 plus closing costs and transfer fees included.

But you need to learn a WHOLE LOT MORE - it is like a house, those that look identical can be very different.

*HOA fees - MFs *- vary by resorts.
*Converted fixed week contracts* - MFs are based on the underlying week which can DRIVE the MF per 1,000 Wyndham pt (1K) is much higher than you want to pay if you brought the same number of points deeded at another resort OR an underlying week at the same resort which gives more points.
*Break points for fees *-Reservations transactions are allocated by every 77K CWP in your member number. That 154K contract gives you 2 RTs. But 140K gives you only 1RTs and 203K is still at 2RTs. Housekeeping transactions (HKs) also follow a contract deed allocation.
*Developer subsized MFs* - MFs will be lower in the new resorts where there is heavy sales activities. Once it is "sold out", the MF subsized for the empty units ends.
*Visit more Wyndham resorts* - resorts vary greatly. New looks great, but Wyndham (or Fairfield) has been around for 30+ years, along with the old resorts).
*Consider other resorts*. I own Wyndham, but I also own several other chains - DVC, Shell and VRI.

Keep reading - don't buy (at least for around 6 months).


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## eal (Aug 18, 2013)

First things first - rescind immediately, following the instructions in your contract exactly.


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## MChaf (Aug 18, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> The rescind period is set by the STATE you were in when YOU signed the purchase agreement.
> 
> READ YOUR CONTRACT - look near/above the lines you signed. Some states have only a 3 DAY RESCIND. And it is calendar day counting - counting holidays or weekends as days during the rescind period. And I would not want to BET $25,000 on thinking ANYTHING else.
> 
> And last Thursday -- was that the Aug 14 date? If it was Aug 7, you can try to cancel - but I am betting you own an expensive TS.



It was this past Thursday the 15th, and I signed in SC with 5 day grace period, so I'm good to rescind tomorrow.  Also I have a NJ specific contract addendum that extends grace period to 7 days.  But I will rescind tomorrow to be safe.  No harm in rescinding, getting informed and trying the TS game again.

EDIT:  my pardons... It was Wed the 14th, but my contract says Sunday doesn't count as 5th day.  So I'm still good to rescind tomorrow.


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 18, 2013)

You are  a fast learner  and got $25K worth of experience for free. Spend   your savings wisely.

Virtually all Developer TS sales  have   discounts from phony  list price.


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## Kidpolska (Aug 18, 2013)

Rescind...I'm a newbie too and attended a presentation in Myrtle a couple of weeks ago.  They did a great job selling me on the program, I just won't buy through them.  I've spent just about all of my free time since then on this BBS trying to learn as much as I can.  I haven't bought yet; in fact, I may wait a few months before doing anything.  The consensus I'm seeing seems to be that people practically give these things away as the year goes on and MF's are looming for the next year.  Good luck!


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## timeos2 (Aug 18, 2013)

Don't mess up and fail to rescind first thing tomorrow. It's possible you are cutting it very close and $25K wasted for a product you can obtain for $2K or even less (perhaps as low as free!) is truly wasting money in a terrible way. 

Rescind. Save your money and undo a truly bad buying decision.


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## MChaf (Aug 18, 2013)

Thanks all for the quick replies and assurance that I'm thinking correctly.  I'm writing the rescind letter now =). I will take advantage of my TUG membership and read all I can and pursue my TS through secondary markets.


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## gemini2678 (Aug 18, 2013)

I bought 154k at Wyndham Seawatch in Myrtle Beach for only $860 on ebay, and that included all of the closing costs and transfer fees.  I'd say that is considerably less than 25k!


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 18, 2013)

I haven't checked lately, but MAJOR cities used to have 24 hour counter service  US POST OFFICES.

I would use the 30th Street Philadelphia Pa office. And with 2 or 3 windows open at 11PM there was always a LINE of 4-6 people for each window. Then they went to the flashing light for next person. Still a line and 15+ minute wait. 

*Still open to 7PM today (Sunday).* Sure, you don't want to take a drive?


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## Joe33426 (Aug 18, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I haven't checked lately, but MAJOR cities use to have 24 hour counter service  US POST OFFICES.
> 
> I would use the 30th Street Philadelphia Pa office. And with 2 or 3 windows open at 11PM there was always a LINE of 4-6 people for each window. Then they went to the flashing light for next person. Still a line and 15+ minute wait.



Yes, this was pre-sequester and with all the problems at the post office, I seriously doubt OP will find a post office open today.  I just checked NYC and no post office open.


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## MChaf (Aug 18, 2013)

No worries =).  I will mail the letter first thing tomorrow morning by certified mail with return receipt request, per my contract instructions.  The mailing will be dated by the post office on the 19th, which is exactly 5 days from my contract date of the 14th.  The date is measured by the post office date and not the date received by Wyndham.  Plus, it is well with the 7 days afforded to me by my NJ Purchase and Security Agreement Addendum, also dated the 14th, which clearly states the "notice of cancellation shall be effective upon the date sent."

I'm not a fan of NJ, but I have to admit this contract addendum is a nice benefit of being a NJ resident.  Thanks though for the concern.


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## jules54 (Aug 18, 2013)

You are a very lucky person to have found TUG in time. Now you can buy a timeshare with Wyndham points and a new car with the money you have left over.
Take your time looking for your new purchase. Timeshares are very easy to buy and not so easy to sell.


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## 55plus (Aug 18, 2013)

Think about it... Spending hundreds of dollars is better than spending tens of thousands of dollars for the exact same thing. I purchased millions of points on eBay. My deeds/points are the same as the developer's deeds/points. It's really a no brainer. You'll learn a lot more on TUG's - welcome aboard...


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## MChaf (Aug 19, 2013)

Good morning!  I just wanted to drop a quick post to extend my sincere thanks to the TUG community.  I sent my rescind letter to Wyndham this morning.  If knowledge is power, then I'm superman, LOL.  TUG saved me from wasting a ton of money and for that I'm very grateful.  

I have learned a lot these past few days and look forward to finding a timeshare on the secondary markets.  I am truely amazed at the mark-up from the developer compared to secondary markets, and/or I can't believe what sellers are willing to let their TS go for.

My wife and I have a very good idea of the total points we want and narrowed our base home down to a handful of Wyndham properties.  Now it is just a matter of finding the right combination of points and location, with a clean title and no mortgage.

THANK YOU TUG COMMUNITY!!


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## dbigbum (Aug 19, 2013)

MChaf said:


> Good morning!  I just wanted to drop a quick post to extend my sincere thanks to the TUG community.  I sent my rescind letter to Wyndham this morning.  If knowledge is power, then I'm superman, LOL.  TUG saved me from wasting a ton of money and for that I'm very grateful.
> 
> I have learned a lot these past few days and look forward to finding a timeshare on the secondary markets.  I am truely amazed at the mark-up from the developer compared to secondary markets, and/or I can't believe what sellers are willing to let their TS go for.
> 
> ...



You can lurk around the bargain deals section too.  I picked up a 154K Wyndham contract off eBay for $1 plus the maintenance fees for the year that were already paid with free closing and transfer and another 77K from the bargain deals section for just the transfer fee which is enough for my family to vacation for years to come.  Enjoy!


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## 55plus (Aug 19, 2013)

Be sure you read the auctions carefully. I recently saw two large points timeshares at Wyndham Skyline Towers in Atlantic City being sold with no points available until 2016. The terms were the buyer begins pays the maintenance fees after closing. The seller thought that was fair because the auction started at $1. 

Most sellers are honest, but there might be a couple not so honest ones out their. Read the auctions carefully and ask question if necessary .


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## MChaf (Aug 19, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> Be sure you read the auctions carefully. I recently saw two large points timeshares at Wyndham Skyline Towers in Atlantic City being sold with no points available until 2016. The terms were the buyer begins pays the maintenance fees after closing. The seller thought that was fair because the auction started at $1.
> 
> Most sellers are honest, but there might be a couple not so honest ones out their. Read the auctions carefully and ask question if necessary .



Yep, saw that also =).  I'm a fairly quick study.  We are actually working with RedWeek and following several eBay listings.  We are also studying the eBay completed listings to get an idea on market pricing and options.  Plus, TUG has a nice list of questions to consider regarding the purchase of a resale that we have put to good use.

Really the only decision for us at this point is whether to opt for a deeded property with a contract that doesn't include 13 month ARP with other properties outside our base, or whether to opt for a true Plus contract that includes Wyndham's Access program.

We really like Wyndham's point program and seeking a home property that we can enjoy, our kids can enjoy and our future grand kids.  And having enough points that we can reserve it for a full week during prime times of the year when we so choose.

Had two calls with Wyndham, both sales and corporate, and advised them of the rescission.  I give them credit for being friendly despite the bad news and for providing information regarding contract differences in the resale market and to be sure the MF is paid in full.  And I was honest with them with regard to the overprice of the contract compared to open markets.

From my experience, great company, friendly customer service and great points program.  The developer pricing is just too high compared to secondary markets.


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## timeos2 (Aug 19, 2013)

MChaf said:


> From my experience, great company, friendly customer service and great points program.  The developer pricing is just too high compared to secondary markets.



Other than sales (which you can avoid entirely by buying resale and avoiding "updates" while at the resorts) and owner services (which appears to be purposely under and relatively incompetently staffed) the Wyndham Points system is close to an ideal value in timeshare (resale purchase only). It offers many great resorts as internal choices - some in otherwise undeserved urban areas - as well as a partial priority access to RCI weeks as part of the annual fees and an exchange fee. Fees are usually at mid-range level for similar resorts.  And it's easy to get out when you are done as the points are desirable and what you paid at resale pricing can be recovered quickly. 

Overall Wyndham is one of the truly great values in all of timeshare.


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## theo (Aug 19, 2013)

*Interesting legal oddity...*



MChaf said:


> <snip> ... it is well with the 7 days afforded to me by my NJ Purchase and Security Agreement Addendum... <snip>
> 
> I'm not a fan of NJ, but I have to admit this contract addendum is a nice benefit of being a NJ resident.  <snip>



You are rescinding within the applicable SC state law rescission time period. Congratulations and well done. You are avoiding unnecessarily overspending by about about $24,000.00.

That being said, I am intrigued by the "NJ Addendum" to which you make reference. Rescission periods are determined by individual state law. Accordingly, I'm certainly puzzled how *any*  state (...including NJ) could presume to address (or in *any* way actually impact) the exisiting, comparable laws of another state.

It's a moot point, since you are meeting the more conservative SC rescission period anyhow. Nonetheless, this "NJ addendum" is a puzzling reference in the context of a purchase made in South Carolina. 
This just doesn't make much sense to me, from a legal perspective.


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## learnalot (Aug 19, 2013)

theo said:


> You are rescinding within the applicable SC state law rescission time period. Congratulations and well done. You are avoiding unnecessarily overspending by about about $24,000.00.
> 
> That being said, I am intrigued by the "NJ Addendum" to which you make reference. Rescission periods are determined by individual state law. Accordingly, I'm certainly puzzled how *any* individual state (...including NJ) could presume to somehow address (or in *any* way impact) the laws of another state.
> 
> It's a moot point, since you are meeting the more conservative SC rescission period anyhow. Nonetheless, this "NJ addendum" is a puzzling reference in the context of a purchase in South Carolina; this frankly just doesn't make much sense to me, from a legal perspective.



Some states have stronger consumer protection laws than others.  Actually if you read the fine print on many sorts of contracts - credit card terms, for instance, you will see that there are often exceptions or special notations for residents of certain states.


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## MChaf (Aug 19, 2013)

theo said:


> It's a moot point, since you are meeting the more conservative SC rescission period anyhow. Nonetheless, this "NJ addendum" is a puzzling reference in the context of a purchase made in South Carolina.
> This just doesn't make much sense to me, from a legal perspective.



I dug around a little since I actually work for the State of NJ and familiar with the Department of Banking and Insurance (DOBI) that regulates such activities.  I believe I found the law if you are interested in giving it a read:

http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/proposed/prn08_223.pdf

There is also this TUG thread on the topic:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33968

NJ law applies because the Wyndham has a license in NJ for their Atlantic City property.

Signed,
Superman (only kidding)


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## MChaf (Aug 20, 2013)

Just a quick status update:

(1) Wyndham actually refunded my money yesterday based on the phone call alone; they didn't wait until receipt of my rescind letter, which they will get later this afternoon.  I am quite impressed, and will pursue my first timeshare with Wyndham through secondary markets.

(2) And with that in mind, I'm happy to report the aquisition of my first timeshare is in the works.  I have purchased a 280K point property at Bonnet Creek for roughly $4K, which I eventually found through the listings at RedWeek.com.  It was a little bit more than the going rates from other documented sales, such as eBay.  But it was the right combination of points, location and compared to the $25K I almost overpaid, it is quite the bargain.  

The seller is a subsidiary of Startegis Reality and the closing company is Timeshare Closing Services.  There is some partnership between the two, including a relationship with other LLC's.  But, I did my do diligence  and checked both out, including license checks, BBB checks, and of course the TUG forum threads that referenced both with successful timeshare acquisitions.

It has been a long last few days, but I managed to get through this process unscathed thanks to the TUG community.  The best $15 I ever spent, LOL.  As you all may know, it may take weeks to months to complete the transfer, but will get done in 2013.  I will provide updates as progress is made as it may help others along the way.


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## 55plus (Aug 20, 2013)

You'll require APR at Bonnet Creek certain times of the year, so if that's where you want to go during high demand periods it's worth what you paid.

FYI: If you plan to stay at Bonnet Creek during Christmas and go to Disney World, don't. We alternate between Hawaii and Daytona Beach for Christmas. When in Daytona Beach for Christmas we've heard on the radio that Disney World is at capacity and closed their gates. We've heard this round 9AM. If there is one thing I hate is being in a crowded theme park.


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## MChaf (Aug 20, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> You'll require APR at Bonnet Creek certain times of the year, so if that's where you want to go during high demand periods it's worth what you paid.
> 
> FYI: If you plan to stay at Bonnet Creek during Christmas and go to Disney World, don't. We alternate between Hawaii and Daytona Beach for Christmas. When in Daytona Beach for Christmas we've heard on the radio that Disney World is at capacity and closed their gates. We've heard this round 9AM. If there is one thing I hate is being in a crowded theme park.



Yep yep.  280K gets me the two bedroom deluxe we would need for the family during prime time, but we will seldom travel during prime.  I will stretch that 280K as much as I can each year   I figure I can get easily 2-3 weeks of vacation time with reservations and housekeeping covered in the points; not bad for roughly $1500 MF/year.  In fact, I'm hoping to make my first reservation there for a April stay once the transfer is done.  It is during the weeks 15-19 period, with great point pricing.  Fingers crossed, LOL.

My dad lives in FL and has a TS with Wyndham in Bonnet Creek, which he purchased close to ten years ago through as he describes it "a shack on the side of a back road in Georgia".  You think I should have know better dealing with the developer, but I didn't.  And I should have done my homework before sitting in a presentation, but I just assumed there wasn't such a desparity between developer and secondary market pricing.  I was willing to pay a little more to buy directly from the developer, but not $21K more.

So, Bonnet Creek not only serves immediate and future family vacation needs, but also serves as a means to visit dad.


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## FL Guy (Aug 20, 2013)

Welcome "neighbor"!!   I'm awaiting Wyndham to set up my account and transfer ownership of my first TS of the 166k points at Bonnet Creek I bought from a TUG member (for only the closing & transfer costs).  I don't have kids, so typically only need a 1 bedroom and 166k will get that for me in prime season at Bonnet Creek.  Although, in reality, since I live 45 minutes away from Bonnet Creek, it's unlikely I'll stay there too often or an entire week at a time.  Like you, I hope to get 2 or more weeks in other resorts in non-prime seasons from my points.  Congrats on being able to rescind your developer contract.  Thankfully I managed to resist the sales presentations' pressures and discovered the resale market and TUG before buying.  I like the idea of timeshare vacationing, just not the idea of paying thousands up front for the privilege.


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## MChaf (Aug 20, 2013)

FL Guy said:


> Welcome "neighbor"!!   I'm awaiting Wyndham to set up my account and transfer ownership of my first TS of the 166k points at Bonnet Creek I bought from a TUG member (for only the closing & transfer costs).  I don't have kids, so typically only need a 1 bedroom and 166k will get that for me in prime season at Bonnet Creek.  Although, in reality, since I live 45 minutes away from Bonnet Creek, it's unlikely I'll stay there too often or an entire week at a time.  Like you, I hope to get 2 or more weeks in other resorts in non-prime seasons from my points.  Congrats on being able to rescind your developer contract.  Thankfully I managed to resist the sales presentations' pressures and discovered the resale market and TUG before buying.  I like the idea of timeshare vacationing, just not the idea of paying thousands up front for the privilege.



Hello FL Guy :rofl:

Grats on your timeshare!  And wow, it cost you just closing and transfer costs!  That's one nice TUG member!

I'm not expecting to get to the Creek in 2014, but hoping I get lucky once the transfer comes thru.  If by chance we end up there at same time, drinks are on me.  We need to celebrate!


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2013)

What was most refreshing was their was no debate here on how to get a receipt or alternative methods of delivery, just a consistent message to get it postmarked before the contract documents deadline.


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## FL Guy (Aug 20, 2013)

MChaf said:


> Hello FL Guy :rofl:
> 
> Grats on your timeshare!  And wow, it cost you just closing and transfer costs!  That's one nice TUG member!
> 
> I'm not expecting to get to the Creek in 2014, but hoping I get lucky once the transfer comes thru.  If by chance we end up there at same time, drinks are on me.  We need to celebrate!



Yes, a celebration is in order!!  With the thousands we saved between the two of us, there's money for LOTS of drinks.  

The TUG member hadn't used their Wyndham points for the last few years and were tired of paying maintenance fees for something they were not using.  So it was a win-win for both of us.  (Although I consider I am the bigger winner!)  I actually almost didn't get it as someone else had contacted them first after they posted it in the marketplace bargains, but apparently their wife put the "kabosh" on taking on any more timeshares, so the original guy passed.  Thank you, Mrs. "Whoever"!!  :rofl:


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## timeos2 (Aug 20, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> You'll require APR at Bonnet Creek certain times of the year, so if that's where you want to go during high demand periods it's worth what you paid.
> 
> FYI: If you plan to stay at Bonnet Creek during Christmas and go to Disney World, don't. We alternate between Hawaii and Daytona Beach for Christmas. When in Daytona Beach for Christmas we've heard on the radio that Disney World is at capacity and closed their gates. We've heard this round 9AM. If there is one thing I hate is being in a crowded theme park.



Christmas week may be the only week you'd need ARP at BC. We were just there over Spring Break - a very busy time - on a DEEPLY discounted rental (certainly no ARP involved - it was from RCI).  

Avoiding Disney on the actual week of Christmas is great advice. It is a total nightmare. We did it once years ago when we still had free passes from our DVC and literally no one was there. We correctly assumed people had better things to do on Christmas.  But somewhere along the line Disney apparently overtook family for Christmas and now it is beyond over packed - you cannot enjoy anything. We'd never do that type of super busy attendance day again. Wait for January 2 and you still see the lights & can fire a cannon on Main St and not hurt anyone.


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## dbigbum (Aug 20, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> Christmas week may be the only week you'd need ARP at BC. We were just there over Spring Break - a very busy time - on a DEEPLY discounted rental (certainly no ARP involved - it was from RCI).
> 
> Avoiding Disney on the actual week of Christmas is great advice. It is a total nightmare. We did it once years ago when we still had free passes from our DVC and literally no one was there. We correctly assumed people had better things to do on Christmas.  But somewhere along the line Disney apparently overtook family for Christmas and now it is beyond over packed - you cannot enjoy anything. We'd never do that type of super busy attendance day again. Wait for January 2 and you still see the lights & can fire a cannon on Main St and not hurt anyone.



About 15 years ago I went to Disney with my GF (now wife) during college break over Chistmas week and the place was empty.  It was the best time, we walked into Cinderella's (Snow White?) castle without reservations for dinner and were seated in half an hour! Haven't gone during that week since, but I've heard it's now packed.
Now we have 2 young boys (hence not knowing who's castle it is) and live in NJ so go during "Jersey week" in November.  That's a nice time to go.
Anyway, nothing to do with anything on the thread, just wanted to share.


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## YeongWoo (Aug 20, 2013)

*Congrats*



MChaf said:


> Signed,
> Superman (only kidding)



You've done well, but doesn't this make TUG the superhero?

BC is the best...


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## MChaf (Aug 20, 2013)

YeongWoo said:


> You've done well, but doesn't this make TUG the superhero?
> 
> BC is the best...



No no, LOL... TUG is more like the Justice League and a group of superheroes


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## YeongWoo (Aug 20, 2013)

MChaf said:


> No no, LOL... TUG is more like the Justice League and a group of superheroes



yes, there are a lot of great people that make up the TUG community.  You can really make the most out of Wyndham with the info you get here.  glad things worked out for you...


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