# Wyndham Maintenance fees should they be paid if you're not able to book reservations?



## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

If Wyndham shuts resorts and and stops taking reservations will they also give owners a rebate on maintenance fees? What is the fair thing to do? I have my opinion they should but I am interested in what others have to say. Also will they extend current use year points if they extend not taking reservations past 4/18?


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## 55plus (Mar 20, 2020)

That's like saying you shouldn't pay maintenance fees if the resort you want to book a reservation at has no availability during the timeframe you want to travel. The answer is, pay your maintenance fees. If you don't other owners will be forced to pay them for you.


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## Braindead (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If Wyndham shuts resorts and and stops taking reservations will they also give owners a rebate on maintenance fees? What is the fair thing to do? I have my opinion they should but I am interested in what others have to say. Also will they extend current use year points if they extend not taking reservations past 4/18?


Nonsense


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Braindead said:


> Nonsense


Really? If Im paying $2500-3000 a month in maintenance fees and I can't make a reservation in your words it nonsense.


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## chapjim (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Really? If Im paying $2500-3000 a month in maintenance fees and I can't make a reservation in your words it nonsense.



Carry it forward to 2021 and stop complaining.  I cancelled a million points two days ago and have them all on new reservations except for 50,250.

Edit:  Booked the 50,250 and had to borrow 15,000 from 2021.


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## chapjim (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If Wyndham shuts resorts and and stops taking reservations will they also give owners a rebate on maintenance fees? What is the fair thing to do? I have my opinion they should but I am interested in what others have to say. Also will they extend current use year points if they extend not taking reservations past 4/18?



The fair thing to do also happens to be the required thing -- pay the maintenance fees.  Nobody guaranteed you exactly what you want.  I don't think you're getting a lot of sympathy on this one.


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## Jan M. (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Really? If Im paying $2500-3000 a month in maintenance fees and I can't make a reservation in your words it nonsense.



It seems that you're attempting to insinuate that you pay maintenance fees in that range but from what you've posted your maintenance fees are either non existent or minimal by comparison.

If by some remote chance you don't already know this then I will explain. All of the maintenance fees with the exception of the program fees go to the resorts to cover the operating expenses. Our resorts still have expenses whether or not they are open during this time. However those expenses should be lower with the resorts that are closed. Hopefully some of us can expect to see a reduction in our 2021 maintenance fees as a result of the closings.


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## Luanne (Mar 20, 2020)

Hmmm, I'm often not able to trade back into my home resort (which is an independent).  Does this mean I shouldn't pay maintenance fees for those years?


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## Roger830 (Mar 20, 2020)

If a resort is not usable because of storm damage, the mf still has to be paid and possibly an assessment.

If your house is not livable, the expenses still need to be paid.


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## ausman (Mar 20, 2020)

No sympathy from me on this.

Wyndham, even with the changes to the programme, is still an extremely flexible system.

If you can not use your points, push them forward to future use years. For an annual use year with no VIP standing  do so by March 31st. Why would you ever expect a rebate on MF, the running expenses continue coronus virus or not.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

chapjim said:


> Carry it forward to 2021 and stop complaining.  I cancelled a million points two days ago and have them all on new reservations except for 50,250.
> 
> Edit:  Booked the 50,250 and had to borrow 15,000 from 2021.


Thats great if this stops April 18th. What happens if this carries on until late fall? Just grin and bear it?


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

55plus said:


> That's like saying you shouldn't pay maintenance fees if the resort you want to book a reservation at has no availability during the timeframe you want to travel. The answer is, pay your maintenance fees. If you don't other owners will be forced to pay them for you.


Just asking. If all resorts are closed and no reservations can be booked why pay for something that you cant use?


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Roger830 said:


> If a resort is not usable because of storm damage, the mf still has to be paid and possibly an assessment.
> 
> If your house is not livable, the expenses still need to be paid.


If I total a car do I keep paying on it?


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Jan M. said:


> It seems that you're attempting to insinuate that you pay maintenance fees in that range but from what you've posted your maintenance fees are either non existent or minimal by comparison.
> 
> If by some remote chance you don't already know this then I will explain. All of the maintenance fees with the exception of the program fees go to the resorts to cover the operating expenses. Our resorts still have expenses whether or not they are open during this time. However those expenses should be lower with the resorts that are closed. Hopefully some of us can expect to see a reduction in our 2021 maintenance fees as a result of the closings.


No actually I don't pay any maintenance fees at the moment.  I don't like the commitment. Very slim chance maintenance fees are lowered by this event. Just asking for opinnions on what Would be fair if this continues on thru summer and into fall.


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## JohnPaul (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If I total a car do I keep paying on it?



You better believe it.  If you have a loan on that car the bank still gave you the money and wants it back.


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## Braindead (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> No actually I don't pay any maintenance fees at the moment.  I don't like the commitment. Very slim chance maintenance fees are lowered by this event. Just asking for opinnions on what Would be fair if this carry on thru summer and into fall.


No skin in the game but that sure didn’t stop your negativity. So why start this thread when it has ZERO impact on you!!


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Braindead said:


> No skin in the game but that sure didn’t stop your negativity. So why start this thread when it has ZERO impact on you!!


Looking for input. What can Wyndham can do to lessen the impact on owners. Especially the ones still paying for developer purchases along side the maintenance fees.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> Hmmm, I'm often not able to trade back into my home resort (which is an independent).  Does this mean I shouldn't pay maintenance fees for those years?


If no reservations are being taken why have to pay maintenance  fees for a product that is not available. Why did Wyndam adjust and give back points on vacations that didn't have points protection? It was the right thing to do most said!


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

55plus said:


> That's like saying you shouldn't pay maintenance fees if the resort you want to book a reservation at has no availability during the timeframe you want to travel. The answer is, pay your maintenance fees. If you don't other owners will be forced to pay them for you.


Are You the same guy that recieved points back on a cancelled reservation with no points protection?


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## Braindead (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Are You the same guy that recieved points back on a cancelled reservation with no points protection?


I’d say Wyndham did right by the owners. Tell me how Wyndham screwed the owners on this one. EH doesn’t have the reservations either!lol


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Braindead said:


> I’d say Wyndham did right by the owners. Tell me how Wyndham screwed the owners on this one. EH doesn’t have the reservations either!lol


It was the right thing to do and I applaud Wyndham for doing it.


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## Luanne (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If I total a car do I keep paying on it?


If your house burns down do you keep making the house payments and property taxes?  You bet you do.  You just hope your insurance covers the cost of the house.  But you'll still be paying the property taxes.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Luanne said:


> If your house burns down do you keep making the house payments and property taxes?  You bet you do.  You just hope your insurance covers the cost of the house.  But you'll still be paying the property taxes.


On just the property and not the vslue of house that burnt down. Now if I rebuild a identicle new house it will be taxed at a much higher rate. Thank you for you thoughts and input also.


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## Braindead (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Are You the same guy that recieved points back on a cancelled reservation with no points protection?





dgalati said:


> It was the right thing to do and I applaud Wyndham for doing it.


Didn’t sound like it in your previous post. Like the other thread & my previous post here, nonsense & I’m done.

PS. I do pay over $3k a month in MFs & this thread is still NONSENSE


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Results are in. Many owners feel its ok to pay maintenance fees even if all resorts are closed and no reservations are being taken.


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## Luanne (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> On just the property and not the vslue of house that burnt down. Now if I rebuild a identicle new house it will be taxed at a much higher rate. Thank you for you thoughts and input also.


Yes, I know that.  It happened to my bff.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

Braindead said:


> Didn’t sound like it in your previous post. Like the other thread & my previous post here, nonsense & I’m done.
> 
> PS. I do pay over $3k a month in MFs & this thread is still NONSENSE


Your opinion is appreciated and has been noted twice but is counted only once in my survey.


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## 55plus (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If I total a car do I keep paying on it?


Yes, you do if it isn't insured or if it is insured and you owe more on it than the insurance values it at.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

55plus said:


> Yes, you do if it isn't insured or if it is insured and you owe more on it than the insurance values it at.


Survey completed. Thanks for your input.


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 20, 2020)

If they don't find medicine that will allow the working class to go back to working and we hit a global depression, I'm personally defaulting. The few that they are experimenting with look promising enough to allow us to go back to work within a few weeks. But since 20% of known cases require hospitalization/oxygen , there will be a lot of us that won't be paying our MF either through job loss or death. That's the real reason why everything is shut down. If we go past the capacity of hospitals, 20% of people will die if they can't get oxygen and 7% of people will die if they can't get a ventilator. Only 1% die with oxygen and ventilators. That's why Italy's death toll is so high, they are literally not letting anyone 70 or above use a ventilator.


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## chapjim (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Thats great if this stops April 18th. What happens if this carries on until late fall? Just grin and bear it?



That's right.  I'll just think of all the points I'll have next year and have a big ol' grin.  Actually, if it carries on only to late fall, I'll be fine because that's when I made all the reservations from this spring's canceled points -- November and December.  

And, If it goes on longer than that, I'll do what I did this spring -- cancel a million points, push them off to 2021.  And I still have 1.5 million points on reservations this spring and early summer.  I could have 7 million points next year!


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## chapjim (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Just asking. If all resorts are closed and no reservations can be booked why pay for something that you cant use?



That's always an alternative.  Just quit paying if you feel that strongly about it.  So far, you're all alone on this one.


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## Braindead (Mar 20, 2020)

chapjim said:


> That's always an alternative.  Just quit paying if you feel that strongly about it.  So far, you're all alone on this one.


It’s too late for dgalati to stop paying MFs, they’re not even an owner.


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## bbodb1 (Mar 20, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Results are in. Many owners feel its ok to pay maintenance fees even if all resorts are closed and no reservations are being taken.


I am new to this so bear with me.
What occurred throughout the entire use year?
Were no reservations available the entire year?
Can the points be rolled over to next year?


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## paxsarah (Mar 20, 2020)

basham said:


> If you can not use your points, push them forward to future use years. For an annual use year with no VIP standing do so by March 31st.


Exactly this. We have our "big" vacation planned for early June (booked at 10 months), and I have no idea what will be happening at this point. I know my options are to cancel now and push those points to 2021 before March 31, or hold onto it and potentially have to deposit to RCI if we need to cancel (either due to external conditions or our choice involving limiting exposure to my mother-in-law in her late 70s). I would be pleased if Wyndham allows for points deposit after the deadline if travel continues to be restricted through mid-year, but I know how my ownership works and what my options will be if current policies remain in place. I can still use my points in some way, even if it's not ideal.


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## CCdad (Mar 21, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Exactly this. We have our "big" vacation planned for early June (booked at 10 months), and I have no idea what will be happening at this point. I know my options are to cancel now and push those points to 2021 before March 31, or hold onto it and potentially have to deposit to RCI if we need to cancel (either due to external conditions or our choice involving limiting exposure to my mother-in-law in her late 70s). I would be pleased if Wyndham allows for points deposit after the deadline if travel continues to be restricted through mid-year, but I know how my ownership works and what my options will be if current policies remain in place. I can still use my points in some way, even if it's not ideal.



If all your June 2020 travel dates and unit(s) are still available and it’s now within 90 days of when your travel begins, you can:

1. cancel the June 2020 reservation booked with 2020 calendar year points
2. Points Deposit Forward (PDF) the 2020 calendar year points into 2021
3. Rebook your June 2020 reservation dates and borrow from your 2021 calendar use year.

I think the only downside to this besides paying the PDF transaction fee is the pull ahead of 2021 points into June 2020 MAY reduce your 2021 PDF points eligibility if the June 2020 vacation is used or rented. 

I don’t know if borrowing 2021 points for a June 2020 reservation can be taken from your 2021 PDF points vs your 2021 regular use year points


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Exactly this. We have our "big" vacation planned for early June (booked at 10 months), and I have no idea what will be happening at this point. I know my options are to cancel now and push those points to 2021 before March 31, or hold onto it and potentially have to deposit to RCI if we need to cancel (either due to external conditions or our choice involving limiting exposure to my mother-in-law in her late 70s). I would be pleased if Wyndham allows for points deposit after the deadline if travel continues to be restricted through mid-year, but I know how my ownership works and what my options will be if current policies remain in place. I can still use my points in some way, even if it's not ideal.


Lets hope Wyndham allows some flexability on points deposit after the deadline. Unfortunately Wyndham is in a jam on how to take care of owners fairly. I beleve they will do the right thing as they did with returning points on canceled trips inside the 15 day period.


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> If they don't find medicine that will allow the working class to go back to working and we hit a global depression, I'm personally defaulting. The few that they are experimenting with look promising enough to allow us to go back to work within a few weeks. But since 20% of known cases require hospitalization/oxygen , there will be a lot of us that won't be paying our MF either through job loss or death. That's the real reason why everything is shut down. If we go past the capacity of hospitals, 20% of people will die if they can't get oxygen and 7% of people will die if they can't get a ventilator. Only 1% die with oxygen and ventilators. That's why Italy's death toll is so high, they are literally not letting anyone 70 or above use a ventilator.


These are fairly accurate numbers. Anyone that is not self isolating is risking not only their health and well being but everone elses around them. If they become infected how many do they expose to this virus because they are not self isolating?


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

Braindead said:


> It’s too late for dgalati to stop paying MFs, they’re not even an owner.


Correct I have no commitment to monthly maintenance fees at this time. I made a decision to exit the ownership and will continue renting as needed. I have a feeling rental prices will continue to be a good value compared to owning and paying maintenance  fees.  Owners will be  pushing points into next year or depositing into RCI if reservations cannot be made.


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

chapjim said:


> That's right.  I'll just think of all the points I'll have next year and have a big ol' grin.  Actually, if it carries on only to late fall, I'll be fine because that's when I made all the reservations from this spring's canceled points -- November and December.
> 
> And, If it goes on longer than that, I'll do what I did this spring -- cancel a million points, push them off to 2021.  And I still have 1.5 million points on reservations this spring and early summer.  I could have 7 million points next year!


With your example above there maybe a larger inventory of points available for rental next year. I believe this supply of additional points along with a recession will result in rental prices at or below the current cost of paying maintenance fees. Supply vs Demand has crushed oil prices. Who would have thought gas prices would be at a $1 in their life time again?


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

JohnPaul said:


> You better believe it.  If you have a loan on that car the bank still gave you the money and wants it back.


Ok fair enough. What about a lease car that is totaled? Lets assume gap insurance is included in lease payment and it was a sign and drive with no out of pocket$ up front?


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## Ski-Dad (Mar 21, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If I total a car do I keep paying on it?



Actually - yes.   If you total your car or your house burns down, you are still on the hook for anything owing on the car or house.  If your leased vehicle breaks down  and it takes 2 month to have it repaired, you still have to make lease payments for those months you had no use of the vehicle.


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## Braindead (Mar 21, 2020)

dgalati said:


> No actually I don't pay any maintenance fees at the moment.  I don't like the commitment. Very slim chance maintenance fees are lowered by this event. Just asking for opinnions on what Would be fair if this continues on thru summer and into fall.


Since you’re not a Wyndham owner, why start this thread only in the Wyndham forum?
Why don’t you start a similar thread in all of the different TS systems Forum?


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## Jan M. (Mar 21, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Correct I have no commitment to monthly maintenance fees at this time. I made a decision to exit the ownership





dgalati said:


> Play nice..



Dude, the other people who are actually owners are telling you this isn't a good time to be playing your games with trying to stir things up!


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## paxsarah (Mar 21, 2020)

CCdad said:


> If all your June 2020 travel dates and unit(s) are still available and it’s now within 90 days of when your travel begins, you can:
> 
> 1. cancel the June 2020 reservation booked with 2020 calendar year points
> 2. Points Deposit Forward (PDF) the 2020 calendar year points into 2021
> 3. Rebook your June 2020 reservation dates and borrow from your 2021 calendar use year.



Unfortunately, the reason I booked our unit at 10 months is because I needed to - it's a 4BR at Ocean Ridge and hasn't been available for months. My chances of catching it returning after cancellation are close to zero, though if I do decide to just let it go before 3/31, I may check availability for a few days afterwards just in case. If the same unit was available now, I could do #3 first because I have plenty of 2021 points available, then do #1 and 2.


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

[/QUOTE]





paxsarah said:


> Unfortunately, the reason I booked our unit at 10 months is because I needed to - it's a 4BR at Ocean Ridge and hasn't been available for months. My chances of catching it returning after cancellation are close to zero, though if I do decide to just let it go before 3/31, I may check availability for a few days afterwards just in case. If the same unit was available now, I could do #3 first because I have plenty of 2021 points available, then do #1 and 2.


Paxsarah hope all works out for you. Main thing is get through the virus healthy and everything else will work out.


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## paxsarah (Mar 21, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Paxsarah hopecit all works out for you. Main thing is get through the virus healthy and everything else will work out.



Absolutely. The main thing I'm going to have to manage is a little disappointment. My 14yo was more looking forward to this sleepy beach trip with extended family than the trip to Disney we just finished. But I'm mostly concerned about my mother-in-law's health who would be coming with us in June. I told my husband we're probably just best off booking the exact same trip for 2021, and play everything by ear between now and then.


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> Absolutely. The main thing I'm going to have to manage is a little disappointment. My 14yo was more looking forward to this sleepy beach trip with extended family than the trip to Disney we just finished. But I'm mostly concerned about my mother-in-law's health who would be coming with us in June. I told my husband we're probably just best off booking the exact same trip for 2021, and play everything by ear between now and then.


I agree with your positive take on the circumstances.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 21, 2020)

I am disappointed that my Wyndham account is going to have a lot of points at the end of the year, but I am hoping to deposit some into RCI, so at least I will have some other opportunities outside of Wyndham.  Can I deposit points to II?  I love II.  I am Club Wyndham Plus, or whatever that is called.  I am platinum.


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## dgalati (Mar 21, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am disappointed that my Wyndham account is going to have a lot of points at the end of the year, but I am hoping to deposit some into RCI, so at least I will have some other opportunities outside of Wyndham.  Can I deposit points to II?  I love II.  I am Club Wyndham Plus, or whatever that is called.  I am platinum.


Contact me if you have extra RCI points available. RCI gives you many other great options outside of the Wyndham resorts.


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## Makai Guy (Mar 21, 2020)

Several posts directed at other posters and responses to these posts have been deleted.  Discuss the issues, not each other.


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## chapjim (Mar 21, 2020)

Makai Guy said:


> Several posts directed at other posters and responses to these posts have been deleted.  Discuss the issues, not each other.



I plead guilty but I meant every word!  OP's initial post and 90% of his subsequent posts were intended to stir up trouble.  You should read them.  His actions were exactly as I described.


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## Makai Guy (Mar 22, 2020)

chapjim said:


> I plead guilty but I meant every word!  OP's initial post and 90% of his subsequent posts were intended to stir up trouble.  You should read them.  His actions were exactly as I described.


What part of "Discuss the issues, not each other" did you not understand?


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## chapjim (Mar 22, 2020)

Makai Guy said:


> What part of "Discuss the issues, not each other" did you not understand?



So, someone with no equity, no personal interest in the topic, can come on the board and purposefully stir up trouble but no one can call him out?

Okay, gottit.


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## Rolltydr (Mar 22, 2020)

chapjim said:


> So, someone with no equity, no personal interest in the topic, can come on the board and purposefully stir up trouble but no one can call him out?
> 
> Okay, gottit.


The ignore button works quite well.


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## chapjim (Mar 22, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> The ignore button works quite well.



It will probably come to that.  My second Ignore in ten years!


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## Makai Guy (Mar 22, 2020)

Taking off my moderator hat for a moment I will just add this:

People who buy into timeshares need to understand that they are assuming an ownership position and are taking on a responsibility for their share of the operating expenses as spelled out in their contracts, just as they would if they were to buy a unit in an apartment building that has gone co-op.  These expenses go on even when the timeshare cannot be used.  In fact, in some cases, some net expenses may even be higher because any offsetting revenue-producing activities or amenities offered would not be used.

This is all between the owner and the timeshare management.  I don't see why it would be any business of an outside third party.  

Moderator hat back on:

The OP's original question has been asked and resoundingly answered.  To continue dragging it out is becoming extremely tiresome, repetitious, obviously jangling to the nerves, and a constant battle to get in the last word.  Unless somebody has something actually NEW to contribute, I think it's time to give this a rest.


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## wjappraise (Mar 22, 2020)

Perhaps Wyndham will extend the window for non-VIP members to move their points forward, as some VIP owners already have done. 

Of course that ushers in its own difficulties as more points chase the limited inventory. 

How’s that for a new thought? 

By the way, a reality based perspective can help us all to realize that jangled nerves due to posting battles seems trivial compared to the health and economic impact of the underlying cause of this whole discussion. Perhaps a diversion like this thread isn’t that great of a harm. 

Just one man’s thoughts. Maybe I’m wrong. 

Wes.


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## dgalati (Mar 22, 2020)

!





wjappraise said:


> Perhaps Wyndham will extend the window for non-VIP members to move their points forward, as some VIP owners already have done.
> 
> Of course that ushers in its own difficulties as more points chase the limited inventory.
> 
> ...


Yes Wes 100% correct. Unfortunately many will be forced to make tough finacial decisions over the next several months. Ohio just locked down today and many more states will follow. Shelter at home and stay healthy everthing else is not really that important.


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## dgalati (Mar 22, 2020)

wjappraise said:


> Perhaps Wyndham will extend the window for non-VIP members to move their points forward, as some VIP owners already have done.
> 
> Of course that ushers in its own difficulties as more points chase the limited inventory.
> 
> ...


You are also correct on the issue of many points being pushed into next year. Depending on how long this shut down lasts  it will  affect ARP availability. The VIP 60 day booking discount will also be much harder to book.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 22, 2020)

IMHO...the timeshare systems will need to extend the points expiration or they will be deluged with people who default.

And so it begins...


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## Braindead (Mar 22, 2020)

Makai Guy said:


> This is all between the owner and the timeshare management.  I don't see why it would be any business of an outside third party.





dgalati said:


> You are also correct on the issue of many points being pushed into next year. Depending on how long this shut down lasts  it will  affect ARP availability. The VIP 60 day booking discount will also be much harder to book.


Please take the moderators advice
In case you don’t understand, you are an outside third party


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## dgalati (Mar 22, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If Wyndham shuts resorts and and stops taking reservations will they also give owners a rebate on maintenance fees? What is the fair thing to do? I have my opinion they should but I am interested in what others have to say. Also will they extend current use year points if they extend not taking reservations past 4/18?





CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...the timeshare systems will need to extend the points expiration or they will be deluged with people who default.
> 
> And so it begins...




Exactly my thoughts. Without Wyndham offering some assistance or rebate on paying maintenance fees many will default on their ownership instead of paying maintenance fees. This will cost those who have the most invested compared to those that can just walk away. For those who have to choose between paying the rent or groceries travel and vacations become nonessential. Many board posters thought this was outrageous 2 days ago but it is a reality many owners will face in the next several months


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## dgalati (Mar 22, 2020)

.


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## ecwinch (Mar 22, 2020)

MOD NOTE: If thread keeps up the vitorol, I will have to implement "poster distancing".


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## Pathways (Mar 22, 2020)

ecwinch said:


> MOD NOTE: If thread keeps up the vitorol, I will have to implement "poster distancing".



How to know when to shut a thread down:  When a poster quotes themselves and comments that they 'agree with what that person said'


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## dgalati (Mar 22, 2020)

Pathways said:


> How to know when to shut a thread down:  When a poster quotes themselves and comments that they 'agree with what that person said'





CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...the timeshare systems will need to extend the points expiration or they will be deluged with people who default.
> 
> And so it begins...


LOL.The post was in response to  the post by CalGalTraveler.


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## dgalati (Mar 23, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...the timeshare systems will need to extend the points expiration or they will be deluged with people who default.
> 
> And so it begins...


When people default who ultimately pays the cost?


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## wjappraise (Mar 23, 2020)

dgalati said:


> When people default who ultimately pays the cost?



We went through that during the Recession of 2007-2013. The resorts are hit with lower revenue and greater costs of bill collecting. They pass that along to the owners in higher MF costs.


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## dgalati (Mar 23, 2020)

wjappraise said:


> We went through that during the Recession of 2007-2013. The resorts are hit with lower revenue and greater costs of bill collecting. They pass that along to the owners in higher MF costs.


Wyndham will also stop taking back inventory with Ovations. If they have no buyers or a need for inventory why would they take on the added expense of paying maintenance fees?


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 23, 2020)

FWIW my comment was not an endorsement of people defaulting who simply don't feel like paying anymore. However, management companies need to provide flexibility and future credits to ALL owners to mitigate defaults.


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## dgalati (Mar 23, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> FWIW my comment was not an endorsement of people defaulting who simply don't feel like paying anymore. However, management companies need to provide flexibility and future credits to ALL owners to mitigate defaults.


Defaulting is not in many peoples plans.  Many people will lose their jobs and will be forced to choose between buying groceries or paying their utilities. Maintenance fees on nonessential travel will be defaulted on not by choice but by necessity.


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## chapjim (Mar 23, 2020)

I'm taking his advice.  My second Ignore in the ten+ years I've been a member of TUG.


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## HitchHiker71 (Mar 23, 2020)

Wow, what an active thread! 

IMHO it's actually in Wyndham's best interest to extend points into future use years - in hopes that once we get past this crisis - people will use those points to either book more vacations for themselves, friends & family, or for rentals - all of which pushes up occupancy rates and is a huge win for Wyndham.  If they let the points expire or force transfers into RCI - then those points are lost and pretty much go to waste - at least within the CWP system itself.  

With regard to paying MFs - this issue is really a moot point to even discuss - as Wyndham has Force Majeure clauses that cover events like this embedded in the legal contracts that everyone has signed - at least in recent history (not sure when Force Majeure clauses came into effect for Wyndham to be clear).  Wyndham even has verbiage specific to Plagues and Epidemics, screenshot below for reference.  So regardless of how anyone may feel about it, or has opinions on it, really doesn't matter in the least - since the legal contract reigns supreme.  That said, Wyndham could certainly choose to do something financially - but given they are already facing a huge revenue crisis since occupancy rates will drop precipitously for the next several months, I wouldn't hold my breath.  Just one person's opinion of course.


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## dgalati (Mar 23, 2020)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Wow, what an active thread!
> 
> IMHO it's actually in Wyndham's best interest to extend points into future use years - in hopes that once we get past this crisis - people will use those points to either book more vacations for themselves, friends & family, or for rentals - all of which pushes up occupancy rates and is a huge win for Wyndham.  If they let the points expire or force transfers into RCI - then those points are lost and pretty much go to waste - at least within the CWP system itself.
> 
> ...


Great perspective.  @HitchHiker71 you are spot on with this opinion.


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## OutSkiing (Mar 23, 2020)

I believe, like Wes that the more realistic issue is all those unused points competing for future   Inventory.  

We went ahead and kept our reservation at wyndham Smokey Mountains this week and it is a ghost town. An average of 3 cars parked per building .. probably 95% vacant. This during spring break. All those unused weeks will have to be used later this year or next.

Will non-vip owners be allowed to push points forward to next year? Will Wyndham be able to make some kind of deal to boost inventory from elsewhere for fall, winter or next spring?  I doubt this last point but if they could do anything it seems that would be the thing to do.

BTW the closures in the area have given us the opportunity to do more of what was intended for the area .. walk / hike the park trails to view nature and the falls.

i hope the Black bears are practicing social distancing too.

Bob


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## paxsarah (Mar 23, 2020)

OutSkiing said:


> Will non-vip owners be allowed to push points forward to next year?



We already can right now and for the next week (assuming a January use year) without any special change in policy. I guess your question is, will Wyndham extend the window to do so?


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## OutSkiing (Mar 23, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> We already can right now and for the next week (assuming a January use year) without any special change in policy. I guess your question is, will Wyndham extend the window to do so?


Yes ..  looks likely to need an extension this time.

Bob


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## needhelp (Mar 26, 2020)

dgalati said:


> If I total a car do I keep paying on it?


If you dont have enough insurance to cover it, YES you still have to pay


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## scootr5 (Mar 26, 2020)

chapjim said:


> It will probably come to that.  My second Ignore in ten years!



RR should be quite proud!


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## raygo123 (Mar 27, 2020)

Yes absolutely!!!! Wyndham should. The only problem is you can still make reservations. I'm up to April of 2021.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## sandkastle4966 (Mar 28, 2020)

Pay your fees. Period.   I  have 3 vacation rental properties and 10 timeshare weeks.  I am paying ALL my fees because 1) I am contractually liable, AND its the right thing to do.    

Roll your points forward,  put them into RCI.  We are lucky we have options.


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## dgalati (Mar 28, 2020)

sandkastle4966 said:


> Pay your fees. Period.   I  have 3 vacation rental properties and 10 timeshare weeks.  I am paying ALL my fees because 1) I am contractually liable, AND its the right thing to do.
> 
> Roll your points forward,  put them into RCI.  We are lucky we have options.


What about the newlyweds that got roped into a ownership and just cannot afford to pay? Maybe they were laid off and have to choose between buying groceries or paying for nonessential travel or maintenance fees?
Its easy to post your opinion under financial circumstances different from another that is struggling to just pay utilities let alone maintenance fees on a ownership many on here scream to rescind.


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## raygo123 (Mar 28, 2020)

dgalati said:


> What about the newlyweds that got roped into a ownership and just cannot afford to pay? Maybe they were laid off and have to choose between buying groceries or paying for nonessential travel or maintenance fees?
> Its easy to post your opinion under financial circumstances different from another that is struggling to just pay utilities let alone maintenance fees on a ownership many on here scream to rescind.


Then you call Wyndham and work something out. Unless a flying saucer would land on her foot. 

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## dgalati (Mar 28, 2020)

raygo123 said:


> Then you call Wyndham and work something out. Unless a flying saucer would land on her foot.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


Ray Don't be silly UFO's are in the same category as believing Wyndham sales staff dont tell alot of half truths and lies to get many to buy. You really believe it is that easy to call Wyndham  and work it out?  If you do I have a bridge to sell you.


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## raygo123 (Mar 28, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Ray Don't be silly UFO's are in the same category as believing Wyndham sales staff dont tell alot of half truths and lies to get many to buy. You really believe it is that easy to call Wyndham and work it out? If you do I have a bridge to sell you.


Yes. You may not like it but yes.

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## dgalati (Mar 28, 2020)

raygo123 said:


> Yes. You may not like it but yes.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


Yes you believe in UFO'S or the sales weasels never tell half truths and are very deceptive when selling a product at $150/1000 but only offer $0/1000 when giving back Ovations?


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## raygo123 (Mar 28, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Yes you believe in UFO'S or the sales weasels never tell half truths and are very deceptive when selling a product at $150/1000 but only offer $0/1000 when giving back Ovations?


That is YOUR choice not Wyndhams. Like I said you might not like it.

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## dgalati (Mar 28, 2020)

raygo123 said:


> That is YOUR choice not Wyndhams. Like I said you might not like it.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


Im very sure if you call they can help you out. I believe the first option would be by selling you more points that can be rented out to pay for all your maintenance fees.


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## Jan M. (Mar 28, 2020)

dgalati said:


> What about the newlyweds that got roped into a ownership and just cannot afford to pay? Maybe they were laid off and have to choose between buying groceries or paying for nonessential travel or maintenance fees?
> Its easy to post your opinion under financial circumstances different from another that is struggling to just pay utilities let alone maintenance fees on a ownership many on here scream to rescind.



What is your purpose in playing the devil's advocate in something that you by your own admission have chosen not to be involved in? This whole thread gives the appearance of inciting owners to stop paying their maintenance fees and loan payments. No one is buying your supposed "sympathy" for these unknown people in hypothetical situations. An administrator made his thoughts on this thread very clear and yet you still persist.


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## Richelle (Mar 28, 2020)

I’m going to have to go with the majority here. The resorts have operating costs regardless of if the guests are there or not. Many resorts have contracted services that are a flat rate. For example, they may contract with a trash company that says they will pick up X amount of trash. If they pick up less trash, they don’t get a refund unless it’s written into the contract that they do. So they pay a flat rate even if they don’t use their services. So their costs are the same in many cases, regardless of if we are there or not. Many do it that way, because they get a cheaper rate on services. Also, if Wyndham allows us to roll points to next year, we are still getting use of those points so we should pay the maintenance fees on them. If we lost them, I would be disappointed but would understand that the resort still has bills to pay. 

Some resorts may reduce their fees, but the ones who rent out rooms for additional income, may have to increase the fees to make up for lost income. It depends on how they use that rental income. If they use it to subsidize maintenance costs for everyone, they will likely see an increase to make up for the money they lost. If they rent it out just to pay the maintenance costs of those units they rent, there may not be any increase because the costs to maintain a room that is not used is lower. They may just absorb that cost. We won’t know until next year. All this is just speculation on my part.


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## dagger1 (Mar 29, 2020)

dgalati said:


> What about the newlyweds that got roped into a ownership and just cannot afford to pay? Maybe they were laid off and have to choose between buying groceries or paying for nonessential travel or maintenance fees?
> Its easy to post your opinion under financial circumstances different from another that is struggling to just pay utilities let alone maintenance fees on a ownership many on here scream to rescind.


The obvious answer is if you can’t pay, don’t.


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## dgalati (Mar 30, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> The obvious answer is if you can’t pay, don’t.


What about the strategy of Wyndham selling them more points. Owner can then rent additional points to pay all their maintenance fees. Problem solved? Or bigger problem created?  Is this even a logical option.


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## raygo123 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> What about the strategy of Wyndham selling them more points. Owner can then rent additional points to pay all their maintenance fees. Problem solved? Or bigger problem created? Is this even a logical option.


Is THAT what has made you so sour to WYNDHAM? You were one of those who bought based on renting? We're you a renter?

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## dagger1 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> What about the strategy of Wyndham selling them more points. Owner can then rent additional points to pay all their maintenance fees. Problem solved? Or bigger problem created?  Is this even a logical option.


Not really following your logic.  Here you seem to think people are stupid enough to buy excess points to get into the rental/hotel business;  yet in other posts you speculate about Wyndham and other hotel companies going broke.  If the professionals can make it, why would individuals try to compete against them..?


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## dgalati (Mar 30, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Not really following your logic.  Here you seem to think people are stupid enough to buy excess points to get into the rental/hotel business;  yet in other posts you speculate about Wyndham and other hotel companies going broke.  If the professionals can make it, why would individuals try to compete against them..?


Its obvious to pay maintenance fees that they can't afford. Wouldn't it be better then walking away costing all owners?


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## raygo123 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Its obvious to pay maintenance fees that they can't afford. Wouldn't it be better then walking away costing all owners?


Does your mother still wear army boots?

Ugh!

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## dagger1 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Its obvious to pay maintenance fees that they can't afford. Wouldn't it be better then walking away costing all owners?


I don’t think you are seriously recommending that people who can’t pay their current MF’s should buy more points (thereby increasing their MF’s) and should go into the hotel room rental business and compete with companies that (in one of your other threads) you seem to think are going out of business.  Obviously there is only one avenue for those who can no longer afford to pay MF’s:  that is to stop paying.  Not go deeper into debt.


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## dgalati (Mar 30, 2020)

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]





dagger1 said:


> I don’t think you are seriously recommending that people who can’t pay their current MF’s should buy more points (thereby increasing their MF’s) and should go into the hotel room rental business and compete with companies that (in one of your other threads) you seem to think are going out of business.  Obviously there is only one avenue for those who can no longer afford to pay MF’s:  that is to stop paying.  Not go deeper into debt.


This has been a sales pitch of Wyndham's for years. It also has been a great revenue stream for Wyndham.  Are you saying what they are doing is unethical and morally wrong?


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## dagger1 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


This has been a sales pitch of Wyndham's for years. It also has been a great revenue stream for Wyndham.  Are you saying what they are doing is unethical and morally wrong?
[/QUOTE]
No, I am saying what you are recommending is reckless and morally wrong:  advising people who cannot pay their current bills to buy more Wyndham points incurring even larger MF’s to try and rent these points out in an environment when travel and hotel stays are being curtailed by government orders.  What you are recommending is idiotic, but you already know that.  Why are you really recommending this ridiculous course of action?


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## dgalati (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> Sent from
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No not recommending it was a question. I would actually never recommend buying any developer points.  I also would not buy resale points to be burdened with maintenance fees knowing its cheaper to rent vs paying maintenance fees.


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## dagger1 (Mar 30, 2020)

dgalati said:


> No not recommending it was a question. I would actually never recommend buying any developer points.  I also would not buy resale points to be burdened with maintenance fees knowing its cheaper to rent vs paying maintenance fees.


Gotcha.  Yes, I have seen your comments about how renting can save you money.  Sometimes.  But folks who bought resale want to be able to book exactly what they want when they want.  They don’t want to rely on other people and the complications that can come with that.
But you completely miss an important reason many people buy TS’s, (both retail and resale):  they like prepaying their lodgings because it makes you go on vacation.  Some have no issue.  But many people talk and think about going on vacation with their families and friends, and then for myriad reasons don’t go.  Prepaying means pre-planning which means the vacations happen:  every year, not occasionally.  Places TS owners want to go, in unit sizes they want, views they want, when they want.


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## Karen G (Mar 30, 2020)

This thread has apparently run its course. 

The End


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