# Wyndham & RCI - Scare Tactics /Lies? [2017-18]



## ALC (Dec 25, 2017)

I am currently staying at a Wyndham resort in the south.  I already have enough timeshare vacation ownership and do not need anymore.  The salespeople at the resort have said that:

(1) after the upcoming 2018 Wyndham split, the timeshare inventory in RCI will be significantly reduced which will make it even more difficult to get an exchange.  Apparently RCI will drop several resorts.

 (2) if I buy a Club Wyndham Access ownership property on the resale market for approx. $500, rather than the nearly $18,000 to purchase 105,000 points from them, the transaction would be tagged as a “non-developer resale” and will only be eligible to participate in “scrap inventory” and not the full inventory.  Since I have enough timeshare already, the only reason to buy this is so that my existing 2 weeks ownership can be brought into the Wyndham Club Access program.

(3) Wyndham has an exit plan for those who want to exit their timeshare – they will take back your points (without payment) but allow give you credits to enable you to have 3 years of usage.

As a consequence of their explanations, I have been lead to believe that RCI will become a very mediocre exchange platform and it will be hard to travel outside of your home resort.  I asked them why they are running down RCI which is part of the Wyndham umbrella and they muttered something about how they are warning all resort owners of these plans and once they have done so, those who do not upgrade to Club Wyndham Access will be left out in the cold.  Is this true or a bunch of scare tactics / lies?

Since the resort gave me a “One Time” offer to transfer 2 of my red weeks in a gold crown resort for “free”, provided I bought 105,000 Wyndham Club Access points for $18,000, I did so as a way to protect my investment in my 2 existing weeks.  Having had some time to reflect, it seems like I have been told a lot of lies but I do want to give the sales people the benefit of the doubt.

Would appreciate your guidance / insights.  What do you guys think?   I have 15 days to rescind.


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## DaveNV (Dec 25, 2017)

Rescind while you can.  There is nothing they sold you that you can't buy again.  Do your research, and then make a calm decision, not one based on fear and emotion.

As to the salesman's claims:  There is an eight letter word you may know: It starts with "bullsh" and ends with "it."  It is a well known fact here that if a timeshare salesman's lips are moving, he's lying. They will twist things into whatever sort of variation of the truth they need to make it, to scare people into buying their product.  It's a mystery how these people sleep at night.  How much of their claims did they put in writing?  Any of it?  I suspect not.

I'll let others fill in the facts for you on what you were told.  But in the meantime, be smart, and rescind your purchase while you have time.  If you later decide you really want to pay that much, you can buy it again. But somehow I don't think you will.

God luck,
Dave


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 25, 2017)

First I doubt you have 15 days to rescind ... more like 5 to 7 days. I have NEVER_ heard_ of a 15 day window. Keep your $18,000 ... even renting, you would NOT be paying MFs and could RENT equivalent units for 10-20 years WHEN you factor in THE COST of MFs every year AND interest earned on the $18000 (or the interest not paid on a loan).

Second, RESCIND ... those spin jockeys are getting better at LYING. Your 2 red weeks are still the same. Yes, if you are exchanging thru RCI, you most likely would continue to exchange that way. BUT also look into the small exchange companies ... or arranging PRIVATE exchanges on TUG. Or simply GIVE those away or back to the resort and buy other weeks on the resale market.


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## pedro47 (Dec 25, 2017)

All these stated point items were they in written by the salesperson?  Did the salesperson type this in a written contract?. Rescind ASAP do not pass go. Please Rescind.


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## Panina (Dec 25, 2017)

Rescind, if it is not written in your contract it is not true.


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## Eric B (Dec 25, 2017)

There are some elements of truth, but overall a bunch of misleading statements in what they told you.  #3 sounds like the ovation program, which works out as described for some, but isn’t guaranteed as to eligibility.  You can find discussions of the program on TUG; bottom line is they get something back from you, keep the $18K and let you book stays for 3 years at best, while reselling the asset to someone else.

I flat out don’t believe #1; RCI seems to keep charging rising fees and making money without providing anything other than facilitating exchanges.  If they did wind it down, someone else would fill the market niche for trading non-Wyndham weeks.  I don’t think they would willingly give up the marketing value of having non-Wyndham owners exchanging into the better Wyndham resorts either; how else will they sell them.

#2 sounds very shaky.  I have heard there are some restrictions on “fringe benefits” for resale points, such as eligibility for VIP status, etc., but they’re still points.  I don’t think the fringe is worth the extra money.  Bringing in your other weeks sounds like the PIC program, which allows you to convert non-Wyndham weeks into Wyndham points, but there are costs in addition to your current MFs, which won’t go away.  A 2 BR week can get you 154K points; two of those would be 308K.  Added to the 105K, it would be 413K; not enough for silver VIP and the VIP benefits are reportedly less valuable after the latest system changes at Wyndham.

Rescind while you can and buy resale if you want the points, but look closely and decide if you really want them.  105K won’t get you a week in a lot of places, and you should look into other potential exchange systems besides Wyndham.


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## Jan M. (Dec 25, 2017)

$18k is a very steep price for only 105,000 points. Typically the is some small grain of truth somewhere in just one thing the sales people tell their victims but the overwhelming bulk of what they say is all lies. By the way the maintenance fees for Club Wyndham Access points is higher than those at many of the resorts and the CWA mf's for 2018 went up more than most of the resorts. Some resorts even lowered their mf's this coming year.

Don't hesitate for a second about rescinding.


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## ALC (Dec 25, 2017)

DaveNW said:


> Rescind while you can.  There is nothing they sold you that you can't buy again.  Do your research, and then make a calm decision, not one based on fear and emotion.
> 
> As to the salesman's claims:  There is an eight letter word you may know: It starts with "bullsh" and ends with "it."  It is a well known fact here that if a timeshare salesman's lips are moving, he's lying. They will twist things into whatever sort of variation of the truth they need to make it, to scare people into buying their product.  It's a mystery how these people sleep at night.  How much of their claims did they put in writing?  Any of it?  I suspect not.
> 
> ...





pedro47 said:


> All these stated point items were they in written by the salesperson?  Did the salesperson type this in a written contract?. Rescind ASAP do not pass go. Please Rescind.


Nothing is in writing about the 3 things I listed.  Will rescind.  Thank you.


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## ALC (Dec 25, 2017)

Eric B said:


> There are some elements of truth, but overall a bunch of misleading statements in what they told you.  #3 sounds like the ovation program, which works out as described for some, but isn’t guaranteed as to eligibility.  You can find discussions of the program on TUG; bottom line is they get something back from you, keep the $18K and let you book stays for 3 years at best, while reselling the asset to someone else.
> 
> I flat out don’t believe #1; RCI seems to keep charging rising fees and making money without providing anything other than facilitating exchanges.  If they did wind it down, someone else would fill the market niche for trading non-Wyndham weeks.  I don’t think they would willingly give up the marketing value of having non-Wyndham owners exchanging into the better Wyndham resorts either; how else will they sell them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your detailed response.  No, I do not need any more points.  The only reason I did this was because they told me that my weeks at RCI were going to be unexchangable (even though they are at a gold crown resort and in red weeks - i.e. highest quality and highest demand time frame).


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## moonstone (Dec 25, 2017)

ALC said:


> Thank you for your detailed response.  No, I do not need any more points.  The only reason I did this was because they told me that my weeks at RCI were going to be unexchangable (even though they are at a gold crown resort and in red weeks - i.e. highest quality and highest demand time frame).



We were told that same line about 3 years ago while staying at Palm Aire.  Our week (with RCI) still has the same exchange power that it has had for years! Also, a few years ago we bought a few thousand points less than you were offered for about 1% of what they were charging you!


~Diane


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## dgalati (Dec 26, 2017)

If their lips are moving it usually a lie.


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## Panina (Dec 26, 2017)

dgalati said:


> If their lips are moving it usually a lie.


I wonder which states allow you legally to record these presentions without them knowing. My guess none, thats why they lie.


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## Avislo (Dec 26, 2017)

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


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## Panina (Dec 26, 2017)

Avislo said:


> https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


Not sure if op is in NV or meant Florida when said south.  Florida can't and NV is mixed, seems can't share so ultimately no use.  

I went to a presentation in North Carolina and whereas it was high pressure, no lies were told.  In North Carolina I could have recorded.


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## theo (Dec 26, 2017)

ALC said:


> Nothing is in writing about the 3 things I listed.  Will rescind.



*Wherever* it was "in the south" that you purchased, I cannot comprehend how you could have 15 days to rescind. You have 10 days to rescind in FL or TN, in most states it's 5-7 days under applicable state law. It's as few as 3 days in several states. A developer *could* allot a *longer* period for rescission than state law identifies, but I've never heard of any developer actually doing so . Out of curiosity, where / how did you come up with 15 days to rescind? 

In any event, paying $18k for a mere 105,000 points is just outright obscene, apart and aside from the assorted lies and misrepresentations by the sales weasel. Rescind immediately.


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## ALC (Dec 26, 2017)

moonstone said:


> We were told that same line about 3 years ago while staying at Palm Aire.  Our week (with RCI) still has the same exchange power that it has had for years! Also, a few years ago we bought a few thousand points less than you were offered for about 1% of what they were charging you!
> 
> 
> ~Diane


Thank you.  Just plain weird that they have been continued to say this stuff about RCI's exchange program, though Wyndham in fact owns them.


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## ALC (Dec 26, 2017)

theo said:


> Wherever it was "in the south" that you purchased, rest assured that you do *not* have 15 days to rescind. While you have 10 days to rescind in FL or TN, in most states it's 5-7 days under applicable state law. It's even as few as 3 days in several states. A developer *could* allot a *longer* period for rescission than state law identifies, but I've never heard of any developer actually doing so . Out of curiosity, where / how did you come up with 15 days to rescind?
> 
> In any event, paying $18k for a mere 105,000 points is just outright obscene, apart and aside from the assorted lies and misrepresentations by the sales weasel. Rescind immediately.


Thanks, I will rescind immediately but in response to your question, this is in TN.  It says on the public disclosure statement receipt in all caps:  "Purchaser Cancellation:  you may cancel a contract to purchase a timeshare interest within 15 days from date of the contract".


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## Avislo (Dec 26, 2017)

*https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tennessee-timeshare-foreclosure-right-cancel-laws.html*

*Your Right to Cancel a Timeshare Contract in Tennessee*
In Tennessee, a timeshare contract is voidable up until you receive the public offering statement. The contract can also be cancelled within:


ten days from the date you signed the contract, if you made an on-site inspection of the timeshare project prior to signing the contract, or
15 days after you sign the contract, if you did not make an on-site inspection of the timeshare project before you signed the contract (Tenn. Code Ann. § 66-32-114(a)).
The right to cancel cannot be waived (Tenn. Code Ann. § 66-32-114(c)).


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## theo (Dec 26, 2017)

ALC said:


> Thanks, I will rescind immediately but in response to your question, this is in TN.  It says on the public disclosure statement receipt in all caps:  "Purchaser Cancellation:  you may cancel a contract to purchase a timeshare interest within 15 days from date of the contract".



Interesting. Applicable TN law historically provides 10 days for contract rescission.

Edited to add: the statutory cite kindly provided by Avislo in the preceding post now explains the discrepancy between 10 days and 15 days rescission period in the specific instance of applicable TN statute. Live and learn.


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## dgalati (Dec 26, 2017)

Hope you sent letter this morning.


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## bendadin (Dec 26, 2017)

ALC said:


> (3) Wyndham has an exit plan for those who want to exit their timeshare – they will take back your points (without payment) but allow give you credits to enable you to have 3 years of usage.



Isn't this one true inasmuch if they want your deed? I'm hoping that they take a couple EOY back.


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## philemer (Dec 26, 2017)

A lot of states allow one party to record a conversation w/o the other party's approval/knowledge. I did it at a WM presentation in ID a number of yrs ago.


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## Panina (Dec 26, 2017)

philemer said:


> A lot of states allow one party to record a conversation w/o the other party's approval/knowledge. I did it at a WM presentation in ID a number of yrs ago.


Yes many do but for your use only not to share.  Wonder how that affects your rights.


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## Braindead (Dec 26, 2017)

bendadin said:


> Isn't this one true inasmuch if they want your deed? I'm hoping that they take a couple EOY back.


I don’t think anyone has received any points or compensation for resale contracts turned in using Ovation.
Even if you have a high value contract you won’t receive any compensation for it if it’s a resale contract.
From your past post I think you only have resale contracts


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## spackler (Dec 27, 2017)

philemer said:


> A lot of states allow one party to record a conversation w/o the other party's approval/knowledge.



Here's a breakdown to these laws by state:

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


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## bendadin (Dec 27, 2017)

Braindead said:


> I don’t think anyone has received any points or compensation for resale contracts turned in using Ovation.
> Even if you have a high value contract you won’t receive any compensation for it if it’s a resale contract.
> From your past post I think you only have resale contracts



Yes, all resale except for one Disney. I don't much care if I get anything for them. I just have to do that math to see if they are worth keeping for the RT and the housekeeping credits. We just have too many points now.


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## philemer (Dec 30, 2017)

Panina said:


> Yes many do but for your use only not to share.  Wonder how that affects your rights.



For many states you can share the info: *An individual has the right to record or disclose* the contents of an electronic, oral or wire communication that they are a party to or if one of the parties has given prior consent to the recording of said communications.


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## geist1223 (Dec 31, 2017)

Most States do not allow the recording of person to person conversations without disclosing that you are taping the conversation. In Oregon it is a crime. Also in Oregon playing or using such a taped conversation is also a crime. It can also be a Federal Crime.The Rule is different for telephone calls. For telephone calls only 1 party to the conversation has to give consent.

Many people to their detriment do not realize there can be a significant difference between a conversation over a telephone and an in person conversation.


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## philemer (Jan 1, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> Most States do not allow the recording of person to person conversations without disclosing that you are taping the conversation. In Oregon it is a crime. Also in Oregon playing or using such a taped conversation is also a crime. It can also be a Federal Crime.The Rule is different for telephone calls. For telephone calls only 1 party to the conversation has to give consent.
> 
> Many people to their detriment do not realize there can be a significant difference between a conversation over a telephone and an in person conversation.



You sure? Can you provide a link?


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## paxsarah (Jan 1, 2018)

philemer said:


> You sure? Can you provide a link?



It appears Oregon is a bit of an outlier in this regard. In my skimming of this link, it doesn't appear most states make a distinction between oral/in-person and electronic communications with regard to recording. The moral of the story is, know the state that applies to your situation!

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


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