# MVC in NYC.....Next Month! [The Strand Hotel]



## GreenTea (Jan 8, 2016)

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-strand-hotel-in-new-york-city-300201374.html


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 8, 2016)

Just saw that and was going to post ! Yes !!!!!!


I hope this helps us poor, suffering non HGVC members.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 8, 2016)

It's not like there are no good Marriott hotels in the heart of the city.  This is probably a very good addition to the portfolio, but I prefer the location of the Marriott Marquis on Times Square.  If it is like the Mayflower, however, with suites (not just rooms) priced in DC points very favorably for members, it could be rather exciting.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 8, 2016)

Here's the current website of The Strand Hotel NYC:

http://www.thestrandnyc.com/default-en.html

There's nothing about suites, but there are various categories of rooms (Premier, Executive, Empire, Deluxe, Superior) with various bedding configurations. Considering how quickly it will become a Marriott Vacation Club, I don't expect any significant changes.


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## GregT (Jan 8, 2016)

Great news -- happy to see an MVC property in New York.  I hope the points chart works for us.

Best,

Greg


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## Ron98GT (Jan 8, 2016)

So, will any units ever make it to II for us weeks-owners, or will this only be available to you points owners?

More acquisitions like this could entice hard-core weeks owners, like myself, to purchase points for shorts stays (4/5 nites) in NYC, while in route to other locations like Europe and the Caribbean, from the west coast.  This is one of the reasons that I purchased my HGVC, so that I can stay at W57th St.


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## bazzap (Jan 8, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> So, will any units ever make it to II for us weeks-owners, or will this only be available to you points owners?
> 
> More acquisitions like this could entice hard-core weeks owners, like myself, to purchase points for shorts stays (4/5 nites) in NYC, while in route to other locations like Europe and the Caribbean, from the west coast.  This is one of the reasons that I purchased my HGVC, so that I can stay at W57th St.


More acquisitions in Europe or other worldwide locations and I just might be interested.
Although, I would still hope to see access with week(s) elected points if not Interval.


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## jimf41 (Jan 8, 2016)

GregT said:


> Great news -- happy to see an MVC property in New York.  I hope the points chart works for us.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



If the points required are similar to CH in Boston or the Mayflower in DC it could be a good deal provided they rearrange the floorpan to separate the bedroom from the living area. The prices of NYC hotel rooms and suites are pretty competitive and there are a lot of nice places to stay.

We just stayed in a suite at the Algonquin for $269 a night. If they start requiring more than 500 DC points a night for a weekend stay I don't think it would be cost effective.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> So, will any units ever make it to II for us weeks-owners, or will this only be available to you points owners?
> 
> More acquisitions like this could entice hard-core weeks owners, like myself, to purchase points for shorts stays (4/5 nites) in NYC, while in route to other locations like Europe and the Caribbean, from the west coast.  This is one of the reasons that I purchased my HGVC, so that I can stay at W57th St.



When they announced the Washington, DC Mayflower addition immediately there was a huge bulk bank of inventory to II for Weeks exchanges.  I expect there will always be at least minimal availability through II because mingling intervals in all the different inventory buckets is how they fuel the engine of exchange opportunities for DC Members.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 8, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> So, will any units ever make it to II for us weeks-owners, or will this only be available to you points owners?


Like The Strand Hotel NYC, the MVC at Mayflower is a property with no weeks owners, only Trust ownership. Early on, MVC Mayflower (Washington DC) weeks showed up as available in II. There may have been other deposits into II that nobody saw because they were matched to ongoing searches. 

Because there are no weeks owners, you can't rely on weeks owners depositing high-value weeks. MVC can deposit weeks into II to get inventory out of II for points reservations, but it doesn't seem possible to predict what properties and what weeks MVC will choose. 



jimf41 said:


> If the points required are similar to CH in Boston or the Mayflower in DC it could be a good deal provided they rearrange the floorpan to separate the bedroom from the living area.


I could be wrong, but I expect the hotel to continue to have regular hotels rooms, not suites or villas. The attraction will be the ability to use points instead of paying the high prices that New York hotels usually charge.



jimf41 said:


> If they start requiring more than 500 DC points a night for a weekend stay I don't think it would be cost effective.


We'll know once we see the point charts. The point chart should be much more advantageous than the ridiculously high City Explorer point requirements.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> It's not like there are no good Marriott hotels in the heart of the city.  *This is probably a very good addition to the portfolio*, but I prefer the location of the Marriott Marquis on Times Square.  If it is like the Mayflower, however, with suites (not just rooms) priced in DC points very favorably for members, it could be rather exciting.



In the article it sounds like they're equally excited about opening a sales office there as they are about offering a NY City property to members.  I'm thinking this should go a long way towards lifting the NY-state sales restrictions that they've always faced, shouldn't it?


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## Ron98GT (Jan 8, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> When they announced the Washington, DC Mayflower addition immediately there was a huge bulk bank of inventory to II for Weeks exchanges.  I expect there will always be at least minimal availability through II because mingling intervals in all the different inventory buckets is how they fuel the engine of exchange opportunities for DC Members.






Werner Weiss said:


> Like The Strand Hotel NYC, the MVC at Mayflower is a property with no weeks owners, only Trust ownership. Early on, MVC Mayflower (Washington DC) weeks showed up as available in II. There may have been other deposits into II that nobody saw because they were matched to ongoing searches.
> 
> Because there are no weeks owners, you can't rely on weeks owners depositing high-value weeks. MVC can deposit weeks into II to get inventory out of II for points reservations, but it doesn't seem possible to predict what properties and what weeks MVC will choose.



That's good news to hear.  I thought once Marriott weeks were sold under the points system, at existing TS's and new Marriott TS buildings/locations, they would be out of the II pool.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> That's good news to hear.  I thought once Marriott weeks were sold under the points system, at existing TS's and new Marriott TS buildings/locations, they would be out of the II pool.



Some of the sales reps want us to believe that, but II inventory is a major component of the DC availability engine.  Although we don't know the exact metric MVW uses they are required to make deposits that offset their withdrawals, and since the DC we haven't seen any MVC resorts become unavailable through II.


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## Fasttr (Jan 8, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> Like The Strand Hotel NYC, the MVC at Mayflower is a property with no weeks owners, only Trust ownership.



And it actually sounds like this will be just "managed" via the Exchange Company for the first couple years.  The article talks about its capital efficient purchase not starting until 2018 (see quote below), so I assume that will be when the first portion of weeks are purchased and placed into the Trust to allow for selling the underlying points...likely followed by another segment of weeks purchased and placed into the Trust at intervals going forward, as MVW tries to supply points to the Trust in some coordination of when they need them to sell.  All part of their asset light strategy.    



> Subject to certain conditions being met, Marriott Vacations Worldwide has also agreed to a capital efficient purchase of the 176-room hotel in phases over time, beginning in 2018


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## BocaBoy (Jan 8, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> There's nothing about suites, but there are various categories of rooms (Premier, Executive, Empire, Deluxe, Superior) with various bedding configurations. Considering how quickly it will become a Marriott Vacation Club, I don't expect any significant changes.



I agree in the short term, but I expect as they actually start purchasing the units in a couple of years, we will see a gradual renovation and reconfiguration of the hotel (perhaps floor by floor), including the construction of suites like they have at the Mayflower (where I think the suites already existed).  If the long-term plan is just for hotel rooms, it has no appeal to me as I would rather use Marriott Rewards points at the Marriott Marquis (or even the Renaissance) on Times Square.


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## Fasttr (Jan 8, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> I agree in the short term, but I expect as they actually start purchasing the units in a couple of years, we will see a gradual renovation and reconfiguration of the hotel (perhaps floor by floor), including the construction of suites like they have at the Mayflower (where I think the suites already existed).  If the long-term plan is just for hotel rooms, it has no appeal to me as I would rather use Marriott Rewards points at the Marriott Marquis (or even the Renaissance) on Times Square.



Couldn't agree more!!!


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 8, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> I agree in the short term, but I expect as they actually start purchasing the units in a couple of years, we will see a gradual renovation and reconfiguration of the hotel (perhaps floor by floor), including the construction of suites like they have at the Mayflower (where I think the suites already existed).


That's possible. Time will tell.

In the end, it will be business decision. Does combining two rooms produce a unit that will yield more than double the points of an unmodified room?

The rooms are currently on the small side, but they are nice hotel rooms in a good location in a very expensive city. "Guestrooms size average from 200 square feet to 350 square feet," according to the following fact sheet:

http://www.thestrandnyc.com/d/main/media/PDFs/Strand-Fact-Sheet-Jan-2015.pdf

Also, the photos at the hotel's website show walk-in showers, not tub showers. I prefer walk-in showers, but I realize that walk-in showers are less than ideal for families with "bathtub-age" children.

My guess is that the current meeting facility will become the sales center.



BocaBoy said:


> If the long-term plan is just for hotel rooms, it has no appeal to me as I would rather use Marriott Rewards points at the Marriott Marquis (or even the Renaissance) on Times Square.


I'd rather stay in hotel that's away from Times Square. But that's just my personal preference. Marriott has many hotels under various brands throughout various parts of Manhattan.

As to whether it will be better to use DC points for what's now The Strand Hotel NYC or to use Marriott Rewards points for one of the many other properties, for me it will depend on the DC points chart and how many of each kind of point I have available.


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## DCBoy (Jan 8, 2016)

This announcement seems consistent with info I learned at a recent info session at the Custom House (much better than a sales presentation). I learned there that Marriott Worldwide would be soon announcing the creation of their PULSE program that would include the addition of converted hotel rooms at several locations around the country this coming spring.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> I agree in the short term, but I expect as they actually start purchasing the units in a couple of years, we will see a gradual renovation and reconfiguration of the hotel (perhaps floor by floor), including the construction of suites like they have at the Mayflower (where I think the suites already existed).  If the long-term plan is just for hotel rooms, it has no appeal to me as I would rather use Marriott Rewards points at the Marriott Marquis (or even the Renaissance) on Times Square.





Fasttr said:


> Couldn't agree more!!!



I agree as well.  If you think back to when the Destination Club was introduced one of the eventual additions that was mentioned a number of times by exec level reps was exactly this, hotel space that would be retrofitted as more typical timeshare units and conveyed to the DC Trust.  I was actually surprised that it took as long as it did after the DC inception for the first hotel addition, The Mayflower in DC, to be announced.

This one seems to be the same as Mayflower in that intervals will be available initially through the DC Exchange Company, but different in that at the Mayflower they contracted to purchase only specific floors in the hotel and here they're purchasing the entire hotel.  Hopefully that means they've figured out whatever conveyance impediments they're facing and we'll see more of the same elsewhere.

I love these additions.


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## dansimms (Jan 8, 2016)

*Great news !*

I have been waiting for this to happen for years !  I am 60 minutes outside Manhattan and hate commuting home after a wonderful evening in the city.  A new place to use my points with a low cost to get to and from it!  We could never afford a place in the city, nor would it be practical.  I plan on booking multiple rooms on the same nights for family and friends to come along for the good time!


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## mjm1 (Jan 9, 2016)

I am excited about this addition too. I usually stay at the Marriott Marquis on business, but this sounds like a great location for a personal visit. It will be interesting to see how the points program works.

Mike


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## puckmanfl (Jan 9, 2016)

good morning...

Seems sort of Ho-hum to me...  I purchased Timeshares to have a nice 2 bedroom unit with a kitchen so that the family can travel together.  The sales pitch was , "use the kitchen ..avoid the cost of those pesky breakfasts for 5" which can really add up..

The proof will be in the point charts... don't think this will be cheap!!!  The Residence Inn at Bryant Park seems a more reasonable option...

sorry to put a damper on the excitement... but I just didn't purchase this product for the hotel rooms...  I went to the Strand website... it's just a bunch of regular hotel rooms...It's going to take  a mega-retro fit to make it a MVC property of distinction...


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Jan 9, 2016)

Everybody has their own view, but for my 2 cents, I have zero interest in these urban properties.

When we bought into the Marriott Vacation Club it was for the resort like properties (pools, activities, expansive grounds, etc.... which the Marriott timeshare system always was).  I hope these urban settings are not going to be the trend.... between DC, San Diego and now NYC.  If I want to travel to an urban destination, I can stay in a hotel room (and if one needs more space, perhaps a Residence Inn).

In my opinion Marriott should be focusing on opening new full-service MVCI resorts in places like Cancun, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, etc.....


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## BocaBoy (Jan 9, 2016)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning...
> 
> Seems sort of Ho-hum to me...  I purchased Timeshares to have a nice 2 bedroom unit with a kitchen so that the family can travel together.  The sales pitch was , "use the kitchen ..avoid the cost of those pesky breakfasts for 5" which can really add up..
> 
> ...


I totally agree if it is just hotel rooms, which would be like a studio which I would almost never book with DC points.  If it has nice suites like the Mayflower, however, it adds something because I would never otherwise be able to stay in a suite in one of these expensive cities.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> So, will any units ever make it to II for us weeks-owners, or will this only be available to you points owners?
> 
> More acquisitions like this could entice hard-core weeks owners, like myself, to purchase points for shorts stays (4/5 nites) in NYC, while in route to other locations like Europe and the Caribbean, from the west coast.  This is one of the reasons that I purchased my HGVC, so that I can stay at W57th St.





SueDonJ said:


> When they announced the Washington, DC Mayflower addition immediately there was a huge bulk bank of inventory to II for Weeks exchanges.  I expect there will always be at least minimal availability through II because mingling intervals in all the different inventory buckets is how they fuel the engine of exchange opportunities for DC Members.



It will be interesting to see if they do a similar bulk bank in to II with this property. It seems that they are simply taking over management of the property for now with a plan to acquire units through 2018. So for now, they don't own any actual units. The current owners will still want money for heads in beds and I don't think II is an easy way to monetize units. At lest not through exchange. Unless Marriott is willing to foot the bill. I think instead they will have these units available through Explorer or exchange where perhaps they have other ways to monetize the units to pay the hotel owners.

The Mayflower was different in that they outright bought the units, they could have done something similar there though by putting the units up for rent. I guess a lot depends on occupancy levels. But for now, I think with the ownership of the units still in the hands of the property owners, we won't see a huge bulk in to II. Though time will tell.

I am with NYFLTRAVELER, this doesn't excite me much other than it is another property that I can add to the Marriott II Unit Codes list if they get deposited there. I want multiple bedroom units where we can take family along. Bahama, Cancun and other Carribbean islands are places I would rather see them build out properties. I think the problem is that they need to start from the ground up where in places like NY they can buy a property and convert hotel rooms. It gives them a less capital intensive method to add points to the MVC Trust. Unfortunately I think this will be an ongoing trend. But what other US cities could they really consider now outside of Chicago and Miami? Which we now know that Miami is a dead deal.


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## MichaelColey (Jan 9, 2016)

When I have potential trips to NYC (mostly for conventions), the hotel prices usually make it more expensive than I want to pay.  Even using hotel points is expensive (if you value your points properly).  If I can't get in a timeshare (which is cheaper and more spacious), I usually don't go.

I think that's why I love conventions in Vegas.  I'm on my way to one right now.  $118 airfare.  $90 rental car.  About $400 for a timeshare, which I'm splitting with a business associate.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 9, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think instead they will have these units available through Explorer or exchange where perhaps they have other ways to monetize the units to pay the hotel owners.


The press release in PR Newswire provides the only clues so far:
Marriott Vacations Worldwide anticipates that it will rebrand The Strand as a Marriott Vacation Club in early March 2016 and will begin welcoming Marriott Vacation Club Owners. Reservations for Owner usage through the Marriott Vacation Club exchange program will be offered as early as mid-February 2016 for arrivals beginning in early March 2016. In addition, the company plans to open its new Manhattan sales location by the middle of 2016.​The wording suggests that the whole hotel will switch over to the Marriott Vacation Club brand (unlike the Mayflower, which has only one floor branded as Marriott Vacation Club).

Marriott Vacation Club uses Marriott.com to monetize inventory that's not committed to timeshare owners. I expect The Strand NYC (or whatever it's renamed to) to show up in Marriott.com.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) did not disclose details of the financial agreement with the current owners. Presumably, VAC can be creative in balancing inventory, as long as they meet their financial obligations to the owners. For example, VAC might be able make much of the inventory at The Strand Hotel NYC available for points by monetizing corresponding Trust inventory elsewhere through Marriott.com.

I doubt we'll see the The Strand Hotel NYC in the Explorer Collection. My guess is that DC points stays will be booked like other Marriott Vacation Club properties. The per-night DC point costs are likely to be in the same ballpark as the regular rooms at the MVC at the Mayflower, not at the much higher per-night DC point costs typical of the Explorer Collection options in major cities.


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## dansimms (Jan 9, 2016)

*Wouldn't it be nice*

Wouldn't it be nice if the DPs required are reasonable and put a little pressure on the Explorer NYC Hotels to finally get a little more realistic?


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## Xpat (Jan 9, 2016)

MichaelColey said:


> When I have potential trips to NYC (mostly for conventions), the hotel prices usually make it more expensive than I want to pay.  Even using hotel points is expensive (if you value your points properly).  If I can't get in a timeshare (which is cheaper and more spacious), I usually don't go.
> 
> I think that's why I love conventions in Vegas.  I'm on my way to one right now.  $118 airfare.  $90 rental car.  About $400 for a timeshare, which I'm splitting with a business associate.



Completely agree. Timeshare point systems are great value for business travel in cities like NYC, Boston or San Francisco, where a hotel room on a weekday will often cost double the weekend rate. Timeshare point charts discourage weekend travel and make midweek travel a bargain in big cities.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> The press release in PR Newswire provides the only clues so far:
> Marriott Vacations Worldwide anticipates that it will rebrand The Strand as a Marriott Vacation Club in early March 2016 and will begin welcoming Marriott Vacation Club Owners. Reservations for Owner usage through the Marriott Vacation Club exchange program will be offered as early as mid-February 2016 for arrivals beginning in early March 2016. In addition, the company plans to open its new Manhattan sales location by the middle of 2016.​The wording suggests that the whole hotel will switch over to the Marriott Vacation Club brand (unlike the Mayflower, which has only one floor branded as Marriott Vacation Club).
> 
> Marriott Vacation Club uses Marriott.com to monetize inventory that's not committed to timeshare owners. I expect The Strand NYC (or whatever it's renamed to) to show up in Marriott.com.
> ...



That makes sense and it not makes sense that they wouldn't offer this property up in the Explorer Collection. It seems that MVW will have to be willing to take at least some financial hit for every week that it offers up for DC points. By depositing them in the exchange company, it might make it more challenging to monetize the units other than to use currently monetized inventory to pay the property owners. I am sure they have it figured out or will have it figured out before they start making these units available.

I do think it is a good addition to the portfolio. I am glad that those that have longed for these urban options will now have the opportunity. You may just never see me at one.

I think the points requirements here will be more in line with The Mayflower with perhaps a slight hike in the amount of points needed. I would expect them to drop some of the Explorer Collection options in New York City once this property opens up for DC points stays. I think the Explorer Collection options are more just there to fill the void where the timeshare property portfolio is lacking.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 9, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> By depositing them in the exchange company, it might make it more challenging to monetize the units other than to use currently monetized inventory to pay the property owners. I am sure they have it figured out or will have it figured out before they start making these units available.


Exactly! Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) has all sorts of ways to move inventory around legitimately — involving Trust inventory, the DC program's own exchange pool (including weeks inventory where owners have elected points), Marriott inventory in Interval International, and inventory monetized through Marriott.com (to pay the providers of Explorer Collection options). It seems to me that VAC is doing a good job. 



dioxide45 said:


> I do think it is a good addition to the portfolio. I am glad that those that have longed for these urban options will now have the opportunity. You may just never see me at one.


The key word is "options."

I'll never book an MVC ski resort in the winter, but I'm well aware that there are others for whom those are the best options in the whole MVC portfolio.

I've enjoyed our urban stays at the Custom House in Boston and the Ritz Carlton Residence Club in San Francisco. I already have reservations for the MVC at the Mayflower, and I hope to stay at the new NYC option this year (although I wish the property included suites with kitchenettes). I hope MVC creatively revamps the all-suite San Diego property before it opens as an MVC; it's on my list of places I want to stay. I wish MVC had an option in Paris, not just Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France way out by Disneyland Paris.


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## jimf41 (Jan 9, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> I wish MVC had an option in Paris, not just Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France way out by Disneyland Paris.



I think Paris and Rome are on the top of everyone's wish list.


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## answeeney (Jan 9, 2016)

On one level this is good news - it adds options and how is that bad?

However, on another level I’m thinking that the timeshare spin-off has lost the plot. It is as if Mr Marriott’s favourite son was given a timeshare business and decided to use the opportunity to create a hotel business that will prove that he is better than his dad. Why would I buy into a timeshare to stay in city hotels? Yes, as a last resort it is a way of using points that might otherwise be wasted, so, as per my first point, it is an option, so hurrah.

If I visit a city then a hotel room is a crash pad. I like it to be nice and comfortable but I do not want or expect a home from home. I do, however, expect a home from home with timeshares. The fact that the last three exciting new Marriott timeshare developments have been converted city hotels makes me think that I need to head for the exit. Even more so that there seems to be no evidence that Marriott have any new European developments even on the radar (and if Marriott junior is reading please do not try to temp me with a London option as I already have plenty of options there).

Please let us have some new proper resorts – new beachside or quaint town/village locations with plenty of inside and outside space, pools, pool bars, sunbeds and sun.


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## JIMinNC (Jan 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I am with NYFLTRAVELER, this doesn't excite me much other than it is another property that I can add to the Marriott II Unit Codes list if they get deposited there. I want multiple bedroom units where we can take family along. Bahama, Cancun and other Carribbean islands are places I would rather see them build out properties. I think the problem is that they need to start from the ground up where in places like NY they can buy a property and convert hotel rooms. It gives them a less capital intensive method to add points to the MVC Trust. Unfortunately I think this will be an ongoing trend. But what other US cities could they really consider now outside of Chicago and Miami? Which we now know that Miami is a dead deal.





answeeney said:


> Why would I buy into a timeshare to stay in city hotels? Yes, as a last resort it is a way of using points that might otherwise be wasted, so, as per my first point, it is an option, so hurrah.
> 
> If I visit a city then a hotel room is a crash pad. I like it to be nice and comfortable but I do not want or expect a home from home. I do, however, expect a home from home with timeshares. The fact that the last three exciting new Marriott timeshare developments have been converted city hotels makes me think that I need to head for the exit. Even more so that there seems to be no evidence that Marriott have any new European developments even on the radar (and if Marriott junior is reading please do not try to temp me with a London option as I already have plenty of options there).
> 
> Please let us have some new proper resorts – new beachside or quaint town/village locations with plenty of inside and outside space, pools, pool bars, sunbeds and sun.



I think Marriott recognizes that to continue to grow the market for their products they have to expand the breadth of their offerings. While I agree that families with small kids will continue to prefer the resort-type locations for family vacations, Millennials with no kids are very urban-oriented these days - seemingly much more so than my generation. My teen and 20-something kids really dislike timeshare vacations. They say that timeshares are all "old folks and little kids." I think the Millennials will prefer options in big cities with action and nightlife.

And even though my wife and I have enjoyed - and will continue to enjoy - the resort locations, I can also say that I am very excited to see some "alternative" locations developed by Marriott Vacations Worldwide in places like Washington, DC and NYC. These will be very appealing to us in our approaching empty nest years for 3-4 day Points trips. Not every vacation needs to be beach and pool-based.

In addition to Washington and New York, I would love to see urban MVC locations in San Francisco (I know Ritz has a place there, but something that would be more accessible to regular DC Points reservations), Seattle, London, Paris city, Rome, and maybe other city locations in Europe. In fact, I think this would be the most logical and differentiating way that Marriott could expand their international network. Most timeshares in Europe are in the countryside or in resort areas where Europeans go on vacation. But Americans tend to gravitate more to the tourist sights in the cities of Europe, and Americans make up the largest chunk of MVC owners. So I think expanding in European cities would be a great way for Marriott to add value to their product versus the competition.


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## dansimms (Jan 10, 2016)

*Penalty Box Points*

Does anyone know, if you have a cancellation and then those points can only be used within 60 days of travel, if those are disqualified for the under 59 day reservation discount that we get as Chairmans Level?  I would think that no discount could be applied to them.  If the discount did still apply, a good strategy would be to use them at a MVCI resort you can drive to, and for me that would be this New York City property.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2016)

dansimms said:


> Does anyone know, if you have a cancellation and then those points can only be used within 60 days of travel, if those are disqualified for the under 59 day reservation discount that we get as Chairmans Level?  I would think that no discount could be applied to them.  If the discount did still apply, a good strategy would be to use them at a MVCI resort you can drive to, and for me that would be this New York City property.



I don't think reservations made with Holding Account points are disqualified from the discounts that higher level owners get with reservations made inside of 60 days.


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## dansimms (Jan 10, 2016)

*That would a great wrinkle to exploit*

If still eligible for the reduction, we could shop for a better <59 booking point rate on every trip, all the way up to departing, knowing that we could do a flexible and inexpensive trip into NYC in all likelihood!  I am hoping that with the <59 day rate that we can get our actual cost down to about 400 DPs for their rooms that sleep 2 to 4, in whatever low season that they create.  Usage is expected for March now, so the point chart should be made available in a matter of a few more weeks.  The Agent I spoke to at MVCI agreed that the existence of this property could only help the redemption rates for the NYC Explorer Marriott Hotels.  They had no incentive to compete before this, and as a result, IMO the stated deals were all non-competitive and not even worth considering at any time.  Time will tell.  We have stayed at The Carlton, a first rate property, but can't justify the ski high cost using points......and that was the best of these bad deals in NYC.  So, in the above example, I end up paying about the equivalent of about $200 for a beautiful room in the heart of NYC, and may have saved that same $200 or more on my other beach or ski vacation, by exploiting the <59 day DP rate!  Working the system!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2016)

dansimms said:


> If still eligible for the reduction, we could shop for a better <59 booking point rate on every trip, all the way up to departing, knowing that we could do a flexible and inexpensive trip into NYC in all likelihood!  I am hoping that with the <59 day rate that we can get our actual cost down to about 400 DPs for their rooms that sleep 2 to 4, in whatever low season that they create.  Usage is expected for March now, so the point chart should be made available in a matter of a few more weeks.  The Agent I spoke to at MVCI agreed that the existence of this property could only help the redemption rates for the NYC Explorer Marriott Hotels.  They had no incentive to compete before this, and as a result, IMO the stated deals were all non-competitive and not even worth considering at any time.  Time will tell.  We have stayed at The Carlton, a first rate property, but can't justify the ski high cost using points......and that was the best of these bad deals in NYC.



I don't think that the hotels really use the redemption rates as a way to compete against regular point stays. I also don't think adding this option will bring down Explorer Collection DC point values.

I think Explorer Rates are calculated on a comparison to cash based stays. MVCI has determined a value to each point, they then use that to determine how much an Explorer Collection should cost. So if MVCI values each point at $0.40 per point and a night at the hotel in the collection costs $400, then they would value that night at 1,000 DC points. The hotels and MVCI have negotiated a specific price that MVCI will pay when an owner wants to stay at the hotel, they then use that cost to determine the points needed per night.

Since hotels are also selling rooms at cash based stays and possibly filling rooms, I see no reason that they would reduce the cost per night for DC points because they would essentially be taking in less cash when MVCI pays them for the night.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2016)

So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?


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## Fasttr (Jan 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think Explorer Rates are calculated on a comparison to cash based stays. MVCI has determined a value to each point, they then use that to determine how much an Explorer Collection should cost. So if MVCI values each point at $0.40 per point and a night at the hotel in the collection costs $400, then they would value that night at 1,000 DC points. The hotels and MVCI have negotiated a specific price that MVCI will pay when an owner wants to stay at the hotel, they then use that cost to determine the points needed per night.



I agree, and as for what the cost of the travel insurance shows us ($169 or 700 DC points) that value can be as low as $0.24 per point. Makes for some lopsided conversions when we are valuing them at approx. twice that (using cost to rent the points as a basis for that valuation).


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## Fasttr (Jan 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?



Was likely more than just a rumor. More likely just another failed attempt to purchase a hotel in NYC (or at least a portion thereof) as it seems like they have been trying to find a deal in NYC for quite awhile, but seemingly found it challenging to find an acceptable hotel with owners willing to sell inventory to MVC over an extended period of time like appears to be the case with The Strand.


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## puckmanfl (Jan 10, 2016)

good afternoon

currently rates at this property  are $250-$300 for the standard  room.  At $0.48MF/pt of Trust points...  it would have to be between 550-600 pts/night just to make it EVEN with cash...

remember that is not an elegant Times Square or Central Park facility.  Marriott has a few courtyards in the area that can be had for probably cheaper...

I still vote residence inn at Bryant Park with the kitchen!!!

sorry to be a hogwart.. but this just doesn't excite me!!!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Was likely more than just a rumor. More likely just another failed attempt to purchase a hotel in NYC (or at least a portion thereof) as it seems like they have been trying to find a deal in NYC for quite awhile, but seemingly found it challenging to find an acceptable hotel with owners willing to sell inventory to MVC over an extended period of time like appears to be the case with The Strand.



I guess it confirms that New York wasn't a rumor, but was MVW actually considering and in negation with The Refinery and perhaps far enough in to result in the website blunder?


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?


That was a strange one. The Refinery Hotel New York showed up on Marriott.com a couple of years ago with a Marriott Vacation Club logo and generic "photos" for a few days, before disappearing forever. There was never a press release or any news to investors.

When the Refinery Hotel first appeared on Marriott.com, it seemed legitimate, but incomplete. It seemed as if someone who maintains Marriott.com content accidentally jumped the gun. After all, we have all been told at one time or another to expect a New York City MVC.

After it disappeared and never returned, it seemed as if it was never legitimate. Possibly, someone was doing an training exercise to learn how to do a hotel conversion and accidentally published the exercise as live content.

In any case, I would call it a mistake, not a rumor.

Since that time, there have always been official announcements before any new MVC locations were added to Marriott.com.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 10, 2016)

puckmanfl said:


> sorry to be a hogwart.. but this just doesn't excite me!!!


I'll wait until I see the actual chart before I decide if hotel that's now the The Strand Hotel NYC is a good or bad use of my Marriott Vacation Club points.

The only clue now is the chart for the MVC at Mayflower Washington DC. Regular rooms for Sunday through Thursday night are as little as 200 points per night (with higher rates during busier seasons). Yes, New York and Washington are different hotel markets. And there's a difference between a floor in a high-end hotel and an entire hotel where rooms are as small as 200 square feet. And there are undoubtedly differences in the cost structure for Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC).

The folks who run VAC apparently feel they have a compelling business case that will make money for VAC and will satisfy MVC members who want to stay in New York City.


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## suzannesimon (Jan 10, 2016)

I believe these hotel purchases are a way for MVW to quickly get more properties into the Trust.  There is a lot of Facebook complaining by owners that they can't find any reservations with their Trust points.  They are feeling like they have been scammed and are complaining bitterly and publicly.  It also will give Marriott more points to sell with minimal hassle - no new construction which takes years and minimal renovation costs.  

I agree with others here who didn't buy timeshares for a hotel room.  I'd never give up a timeshare week for points to spend a weekend in NY or DC.  I'd just rent a hotel room. I also agree that it is a nice option for those who would convert for an urban location.  I'm afraid though that we will never see another real resort from Marriott, but they definitely need them.  They only had mud weeks in the older resorts to put in the Trust and they really need comparable options for owners who bought believing they could get that big unit in Aruba or Hilton Head easily.


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## billymach4 (Jan 10, 2016)

*Google Street View of the Strand*

Front Entrance. 


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.751...06&yaw=342.82571&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


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## billymach4 (Jan 10, 2016)

In keeping with Marriot tradition there is a Springhill Suites, and a Fairfield next door. 

This location is OK. It is in the Garment district. Midtown location. Well within walking distance to Times Square, Broadway Theaters, Rockefeller Center, Bryant Park. 

Would I ever stay there. No I live here, and sometimes I tend to work in the area. 

Would I visit if I was a tourist. Yes.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 10, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> That was a strange one. The Refinery Hotel New York showed up on Marriott.com a couple of years ago with a Marriott Vacation Club logo and generic "photos" for a few days, before disappearing forever. There was never a press release or any news to investors.
> 
> When the Refinery Hotel first appeared on Marriott.com, it seemed legitimate, but incomplete. It seemed as if someone who maintains Marriott.com content accidentally jumped the gun. After all, we have all been told at one time or another to expect a New York City MVC.
> 
> ...



I think there was very serious consideration given to The Refinery, that it got through at least enough preliminary hurdles to have made it on the list of properties worth sinking money into due diligence (as opposed to a list of properties mentioned as idle speculation.)  It wasn't a mistake for MVW to be considering it, but the boilerplate webpage that was released was definitely a mistake as were the emails that were released by an MVC rep to addressees outside the company.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 10, 2016)

suzannesimon said:


> I believe these hotel purchases are a way for MVW to quickly get more properties into the Trust.  There is a lot of Facebook complaining by owners that they can't find any reservations with their Trust points.  They are feeling like they have been scammed and are complaining bitterly and publicly.  It also will give Marriott more points to sell with minimal hassle - no new construction which takes years and minimal renovation costs.
> 
> I agree with others here who didn't buy timeshares for a hotel room.  I'd never give up a timeshare week for points to spend a weekend in NY or DC.  I'd just rent a hotel room. I also agree that it is a nice option for those who would convert for an urban location.  I'm afraid though that we will never see another real resort from Marriott, but they definitely need them.  They only had mud weeks in the older resorts to put in the Trust and they really need comparable options for owners who bought believing they could get that big unit in Aruba or Hilton Head easily.



It's not true that the DC Trust was originally populated with only "mud weeks" although that notion persists on TUG and elsewhere.  And it's certainly not true that since the DC inception the only intervals that have been added to the Trust are "mud weeks."  Take a look at the Recorded Trust Documents ongoing thread (thank you again, Dioxide!) and you can see that many, many high-demand intervals have been and continue to be conveyed to the Trust.  All of the existing resort build-outs have been conveyed as these hotel acquisitions will be, along with inventory that MVW ROFR's and buys back.

The fact is it's not as difficult as some would have us believe to book the "big units" through the DC, either through the Trust or the Exchange Company.  Availability is definitely an issue and it's important to know and use the specific Reservation Window openings, but the DC isn't a failure or an indication that MVW isn't providing a good product.

I agree with you that it will be a long time if ever before we see MVW invest in a from-the-ground-up development of a typical MVCI resort but why would they?  There came a time when they had to completely revamp their product because that model wasn't sustainable - and the result is the Destination Club which was years in the making.  I hope they don't revert to their old ways, prefer that they're forward-looking and concerned with longterm success!


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## suzannesimon (Jan 10, 2016)

I didn't mean to say that it was only mud weeks - just the older resorts that were mostly sold out as weeks.  The point system is good but I won't be electing points for a trip to NY and giving up my week so it won't be available to other owners.  Most of the complaining I've seen are by owners who don't know how to use the system and don't make reservations soon enough.  They were led to believe that points were like currency and they could reserve anytime they wanted to go anywhere they wanted.  

Bottom line, there just aren't enough prime weeks available for all the people who want them.  Perhaps if they can't book a week in Maui, they'll be happy with 2 weekends in NY, but I doubt it.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 10, 2016)

I do think that the sell that you can book prime time by buying points could lead to some problems. I am sure that there are a lot of lesser legacy owners that added on points in order to be able to reserve higher seasons. The main problem is that many of the prime times are owned by legacy owners.

About half of the trust is made up of Platinum or higher weeks. Though one issue is that over half of those are actually Hawaii or Las Vegas properties where the entire year is platinum. The number of platinum weeks outside of Hawaii and Las Vegas is only about 25% of the trust.


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## papertraveller (Jan 12, 2016)

This option excites me, largely because it's another *option*.

Last year we managed a week at Hilton Head, and then did shorter urban trips to NYC (at Fairfield Inn not far from the Strand) and then in Boston at the Marriott Long Wharf (couldn't get into Custom House). Next up, we're booked into the Mayflower in DC.

We are points owners, and at times I have worried that our options can be limited. With work pressures, I have also been concerned at times that we won't be able to use our points. By introducing these kinds of urban destinations, it allows those of us on the eastern seaboard to fit in some shorter getaways.

No, it's not the same as lounging by the pool in Florida and sipping boat drinks, but it's definitely something our family will take advantage of. This is actually a plus for us.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 14, 2016)

dansimms said:


> Does anyone know, if you have a cancellation and then those points can only be used within 60 days of travel, if those are disqualified for the under 59 day reservation discount that we get as Chairmans Level?  I would think that no discount could be applied to them.



No, holding account points definitely DO qualify for the 30% discount available to Chairman's/Presidents level elites.  I just did that very thing in Hilton Head last month and this month.


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## dansimms (Jan 23, 2016)

*Still not on web site*

One of these weeks, the NYC location will show up at the web site.  I just checked and it is not there yet.  They are saying March occupancy, so hopefully not too much longer.  What are people's estimates on how many DPs it will take for a 1 BR unit in a lower demand portion of the year?  Fingers crossed that after my 59 day or less discount, it is listed at a competitive level to use a lot.


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## Fasttr (Jan 23, 2016)

dansimms said:


> One of these weeks, the NYC location will show up at the web site.  I just checked and it is not there yet.  They are saying March occupancy, so hopefully not too much longer.  What are people's estimates on how many DPs it will take for a 1 BR unit in a lower demand portion of the year?  Fingers crossed that after my 59 day or less discount, it is listed at a competitive level to use a lot.



Since these are just guest rooms, (I don't think they have anything that we would call a 1BR) but knowing how long MVC has been trying to get into NYC so they obviously value it highly, I'll take a guess a weekend night will range between 500 to 800 per night depending on time of year with some dates having crazy high point needs much higher than that (New Year as an example).


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## GregT (Jan 23, 2016)

I agree with Fasttr, and think a week day will be 500-600 points and weekend will be 800-900 points. 

That would have a week at 4,250, or $42,500 and a 52 week unit would be $2.2M.  We will see how close we are. 

Best,

Greg


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 23, 2016)

My guess is that the chart for the Marriott Vacation Club at The Mayflower in Washington, D.C. provides a good clue about what to expect in New York City — except that the rooms in NYC will be smaller, and the hotel will lack some of the features of a large traditional grand hotel like the Mayflower.

*2016 Chart for MVC at The Mayflower:* https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/points_charts/Mayflower_2016PointsChart.pdf

The Strand NYC does not have suites, so ignore the last two columns. The Strand NYC has several categories of guest rooms. Basic guest rooms are just 200 sq. ft. Executive rooms are 320 sq. ft. The Premier rooms seem to be 350 sq. ft. In other words, the standard rooms are tiny. The best rooms are about the size of an average room at a suburban Courtyard by Marriott.

*Fact Sheet for The Strand*: http://www.thestrandnyc.com/d/main/media/PDFs/Strand_Hotel_Fact_Sheet.pdf


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## SueDonJ (Jan 23, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> My guess is that the chart for the Marriott Vacation Club at The Mayflower in Washington, D.C. provides a good clue about what to expect in New York City — except that the rooms in NYC will be smaller, and the hotel will lack some of the features of a large traditional grand hotel like the Mayflower.
> 
> *2016 Chart for MVC at The Mayflower:* https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/points_charts/Mayflower_2016PointsChart.pdf
> 
> ...



I agree that the Mayflower chart could be a good indicator of per night costs but there will be some changes in demand.  For example, there's no way that most of December will be low-season at The Strand - Thanksgiving through New Years in NYC is high-demand for any lodging.


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## Werner Weiss (Jan 23, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I agree that the Mayflower chart could be a good indicator of per night costs but there will be some changes in demand.  For example, there's no way that most of December will be low-season at The Strand - Thanksgiving through New Years in NYC is high-demand for any lodging.


Yes, the seasons are likely to be quite different.

I hope I'm right that the typical per-night point costs for NYC will be in the same ballpark as the Mayflower. If so, I'm looking forward to staying there, despite the small rooms. But if the point costs are as high as some here are guessing, count me out.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 23, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> Yes, the seasons are likely to be quite different.
> 
> I hope I'm right that the typical per-night point costs for NYC will be in the same ballpark as the Mayflower. If so, I'm looking forward to staying there, despite the small rooms. But if the point costs are as high as some here are guessing, count me out.



That makes two of us.


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## n777lt (Jan 24, 2016)

Another difference in seasons -if I read the chart right, Mayflower appears to have blacked out Jul 1 - 7 from points users, and I can't see why The Strand would -- people flock to DC for the 4th of July, but it's not such a big deal in NYC (I hope - I'd like to use the Strand part of that week!)


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## dioxide45 (Jan 24, 2016)

n777lt said:


> Another difference in seasons -if I read the chart right, Mayflower appears to have blacked out Jul 1 - 7 from points users, and I can't see why The Strand would -- people flock to DC for the 4th of July, but it's not such a big deal in NYC (I hope - I'd like to use the Strand part of that week!)



It isn't blacked out, points for those dates are on page 2.


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