# Which DVC is the best/surest rental?



## bizaro86 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hello,

I'm considering buying a DVC contract, and I'd like buy one with a home resort that would be easy/profitable to rent in the years we don't go. Having something that can earn at least a nominal return on the initial investment would be valuable in keeping my wife onside as well. 

It seems like the cheaper resorts (Hilton Head, OKW, SSR) might be the best from that perspective, since they have lower fees/buy-in, but are there some of the others that rent for enough more to make it worth the extra? 

We'd probably only make reservations for our own use at <7 months anyway, so otherwise I'm probably home resort agnostic.


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## MichaelColey (Jan 21, 2012)

I would think that Beach Club Villas could be quite profitable in the summer and during the Food & Wine Festival.  I think that's one of the lower MFs, too.


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## slum808 (Jan 21, 2012)

It really depends on when you will rent your points. If you will know a year and a half out then you can offer the 11 mo home booking advantage. Inside of 7 months points are points so then its more of a commodity. Best would be BCV, BLT, AKV, VGC. Not in any order, but each has high demand for particular times. Worst for demand would be ssr OKW. Right now I think buy where you want to stay. You can get 10/pt for any of them, at best $12/pt for high demand resort/time.


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## capjak (Jan 21, 2012)

I own BCV and have rented the points out several times.  I would agree unless you know 1 year in advance you will rent them out points are points at 7 months for rentals.

Sometimes people want Beach Club and other times it is last minute but either way I have had no problem renting points at $10 per point.  

It makes owning Disney easy with banking/borrowing and if in need renting out you do not have to worry about not getting useage out of the points.

So buy where you want to stay and remember the older resorts (OKW, BCV, HHI, Vero Beach, BWV) expire in 2042., while other have longer lease terms.

Also if you can find a good deal on BLT that might be a good way to go as the fees are the lowest right now and the lease time is the longest so if you have to resale the points some day you may take less of a loss.


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## presley (Jan 21, 2012)

AKL savanna view, Beach Club and Boardwalk are in pretty high demand.  HHI and Vero will have low buy in, but they also have MFs that are in the $6-$7 point range.  

I just looked at renting out 60 of my points and what the Disney fee would be if someone booked directly through Disney.

I could get a studio for Labor Day weekend in HHI.  The disney direct fee would be $680 including taxes.

I could get a studio savanna view in August for a weekend.  The disney direct fee would be $1200 including taxes.

My 60 points cost me the same no matter where I book.  But, if I rent the AKL for $300/night, a very good price for the consumer, I'd bring in $900 which is still a savings for the renter and much more profitable for me as the point owner.

Food and Wine festival was completely booked and in very high demand.  If I were purchasing today, I would buy at Beach Club or Boardwalk and book October dates to rent out.  I probably wouldn't even market them until it was close enough the dates that all other resorts would be sold out.  Then, people will be more willing to pay a good price without too much back and forth.


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## lily28 (Jan 21, 2012)

Where will you advertise if you want to rent out boardwalk villa for the food and wine festival? Thank


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## tomandrobin (Jan 23, 2012)

I rent points often. A point is a point, and if you are trying to maximize ROI then you need to factor upfront cost and yearly fees.

BCV may rent well in the summer, but a 300pt contract will cost about $75pp vs say a OKW at $45pp. MFs are lower at OKW and so is point usage. So how long it takes to over come that $9000 upfront cost and the $90 in MF difference. 

So if you rent OKW at $10pp and BCV at $12pp (both realistic rental rates), that is a $600 per year difference, minus $90 MF diff. for a net of $510 per year difference. At that rate it will take 17.6 years of renting the BCV contract to surpass the ROI of the OKW contract.


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## MichaelColey (Jan 23, 2012)

I think you should also distinguish between renting out points and renting out a reservation.  $10-12 is probably the best you would do renting out points, but the right reservation (like a Studio at BCV during the F&W Festival) might rent out at considerably more.  October/November is "Choice Season", and a Studio is only 107 points.  I would suspect that you could get $1400 ($200/night) to $2100 ($300/night) for a reservation then.  Disney charges quite a bit more than that ($385-410/night + 12.5% tax, during that time).


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## tomandrobin (Jan 23, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> I think you should also distinguish between renting out points and renting out a reservation.  $10-12 is probably the best you would do renting out points, but the right reservation (like a Studio at BCV during the F&W Festival) might rent out at considerably more.  October/November is "Choice Season", and a Studio is only 107 points.  I would suspect that you could get $1400 ($200/night) to $2100 ($300/night) for a reservation then.  Disney charges quite a bit more than that ($385-410/night + 12.5% tax, during that time).



Overall, I will agree with that.....

But a large point owner and a large point renter, spec renting weeks is a lot more difficult and time consuming then renting points for reservations. 

OP....just understand that renting points and spec renting are to different things.


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## bizaro86 (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips. 

I'm quite confident I could manage renting spec reservations, but the extra cost of buying into the Epcot resorts is significant. I'll have to update my numbers to account for the potentially much higher rental rates (the example above is nearly $20/point). When I consider the risk of that not working, and ending up having to just rent points or bank them for the next year, I think the extra cost outweighs the potential benefits.

It's looking like the best value(s) for me will probably be Hilton Head, OKW or SSR. My understanding is that summer at HHI, the Grand Villas at OKW and the Treetops at SSR all require 11 month reservations, is that a fair assessment?

Also, how much of the year doesn't have availability at WDW at 7 months? If I bought HHI would I be reasonably likely to get reservations in May/October somewhere at WDW? We'd most likely go over Canadian Thanksgiving, but we're pretty flexible about that.


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## tomandrobin (Jan 23, 2012)

bizaro86 said:


> Also, how much of the year doesn't have availability at WDW at 7 months? If I bought HHI would I be reasonably likely to get reservations in May/October somewhere at WDW? We'd most likely go over Canadian Thanksgiving, but we're pretty flexible about that.



May is a pretty soft month. October is smack in the the middle of F&W festival, so BCV and BWV will be very difficult.....the other resorts are hit or miss. 

Right now, BLT is busy most times.


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## slum808 (Jan 25, 2012)

*Peak times at VGC*

Does anyone know what times and unit sizes would be considered peak times at VGC? There isn't any speacial event weeks like F&W, that I know of.


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## presley (Jan 25, 2012)

slum808 said:


> Does anyone know what times and unit sizes would be considered peak times at VGC? There isn't any speacial event weeks like F&W, that I know of.



Any school holiday period and any special decoration times (halloween, christmas).  DCA did have a food and wine event going in the spring annually, but I believe it is on hold because of all the construction.

I don't think room size matters regarding demand because there are so few units in general.  DVC owners will want studios to stretch points, but others will want the 1 or 2 bedroom.  

If you are looking at what season to rent out your points, you need to look at what the point requirements will be.  Renters are still wanting to pay $10.pp or less - they don't care that VGC is so small and in such high demand.  It helps to break it down for them.  

June 10-15, 2012 in a studio takes 100points.  You will get people wanting to rent for $10. or less per point.  Renting at only $10./pp is only $200./night for a studio at VGC.  The DL Hotel rooms are a dump compared to VGC studios and they go for much more per night.  Wouldn't $300./per night be a great deal for the renter?  When they do the math and figure out it is $15./pp, they will fuss and whine.


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## janej (Jan 25, 2012)

I own and rented OKW points a few times.   I am getting too busy to do that, plus I can no long post rental on disboards.   So I just signed a contract with dvcrequest.com to rent my points this year.   I will get $10 a point, will see how that goes.


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## presley (Jan 25, 2012)

janej said:


> I own and rented OKW points a few times.   I am getting too busy to do that, plus I can no long post rental on disboards.   So I just signed a contract with dvcrequest.com to rent my points this year.   I will get $10 a point, will see how that goes.



Let us know how that goes.  I found that renting through a broker was pretty much the same amount of work as going direct, only I had to wait longer to get paid.


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## slum808 (Jan 25, 2012)

I think renting should be much easier now that you can book 24/7 online. It should be easier especially for last minute rentals.


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## janej (Jan 25, 2012)

slum808 said:


> I think renting should be much easier now that you can book 24/7 online. It should be easier especially for last minute rentals.



Can't believe I did not know about that.   That is so cool.   I tried to play with it a bit online.   The interface is not the best, but it is so nice to be able to book online.   I still want to try David though.


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## presley (Jan 25, 2012)

slum808 said:


> I think renting should be much easier now that you can book 24/7 online. It should be easier especially for last minute rentals.



I thought online booking was only open one extra hour per day than calling in.


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## janej (Jan 25, 2012)

Just received an email from David "DVC no longer will allow us to be on the account as an associate. Thus we will send you all of the guest details and you will be responsible for making the reservations."

Uhmm, no wonder Presley thought it will take just as much work going through an agent.


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## presley (Jan 25, 2012)

janej said:


> Just received an email from David "DVC no longer will allow us to be on the account as an associate. Thus we will send you all of the guest details and you will be responsible for making the reservations."
> 
> Uhmm, no wonder Presley thought it will take just as much work going through an agent.



Yeah.  What happens is when someone wants to rent points from a broker, the broker sends out an email to their group and whoever responds first gets the booking.  At that point (if you are the first to respond), you make the reservations (which will be easier now that you can online) and you send the confirmation to the broker.  After that, if the renter wants to add ME or dining, you have to call MS and add it.  

It does save the time of finding people to rent, but you still have to do everything else.  I don't know how david pays, but the broker that I rented through gave me 1/2 the money at time of booking and the other half when the renter checked in.  They are honest and reputable people, but if you are making the same amount of money as renting on your own, you aren't saving a lot of work.


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## slum808 (Jan 25, 2012)

presley said:


> I thought online booking was only open one extra hour per day than calling in.



The new inventory for the 11 and 7 month windows come online at 8am est. That's one hour ahead of the phone lines. If you're booking anything that is already with in the 11 or 7 month window, you can book any time of the day. That's really nice for me since MS hours are 3 am - 11:30 am my time.


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## spencersmama (Jan 25, 2012)

presley said:


> I don't know how david pays, but the broker that I rented through gave me 1/2 the money at time of booking and the other half when the renter checked in.



If they don't bother showing up, do you lose half your money?  Have you ever had any issues in the past?


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## presley (Jan 25, 2012)

spencersmama said:


> If they don't bother showing up, do you lose half your money?  Have you ever had any issues in the past?


No.  The broker collects all of the money at the time of booking.  So, if the renter doesn't show up, they are out their money.  My broker holds half the money as a security feature to the renters.  That way, the owner can't cancel and rip everyone off.


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## amycurl (Jan 25, 2012)

This might be off-topic, so please excuse, but I've had this question for awhile---can a non-DVC owner rent points from an owner or one of the big brokers and then make a reservation directly, or can they only rent a reservation already made by an existing owner? I'm assuming that either option would still be cheaper than booking directly from Disney, even during one of their specials. 

I miss having DVC in II...got the chance to stay in their HHI resort, probably right before the move.


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## janej (Jan 25, 2012)

amycurl said:


> This might be off-topic, so please excuse, but I've had this question for awhile---can a non-DVC owner rent points from an owner or one of the big brokers and then make a reservation directly, or can they only rent a reservation already made by an existing owner? I'm assuming that either option would still be cheaper than booking directly from Disney, even during one of their specials.
> 
> I miss having DVC in II...got the chance to stay in their HHI resort, probably right before the move.



No, you can only rent a reservation as a non-DVC owner.


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## amycurl (Jan 25, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification! Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...


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## slum808 (Jan 26, 2012)

The owner will make the reservation for the dates you want. They'll let you know how many points it cost, and how much per point they want.


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## icydog (Jan 30, 2012)

amycurl said:


> This might be off-topic, so please excuse, but I've had this question for awhile---can a non-DVC owner rent points from an owner or one of the big brokers and then make a reservation directly, or can they only rent a reservation already made by an existing owner? I'm assuming that either option would still be cheaper than booking directly from Disney, even during one of their specials.
> 
> I miss having DVC in II...got the chance to stay in their HHI resort, probably right before the move.




If you rent from an owner or a broker the reservation can be made online (new service) or through DVC's member services group.  Is that what you were asking!


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## DKT (Feb 2, 2012)

We own BCV and SSR, BCV is the easiest to rent out or transfer.  I prefer to transfer to other owners because it is extremely easy, no checking reservations etc. 

Denise


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## alwysonvac (Feb 3, 2012)

bizaro86 said:


> I'm considering buying a DVC contract, and I'd like buy one with a home resort that would be easy/profitable to rent in the years we don't go. Having something that can earn at least a nominal return on the initial investment would be valuable in keeping my wife onside as well.



I would just buy what you think you might need based on the number of DVC visits and length of stay over a three year period. Disney allows you to bank and borrow points. So you can go every other year or every 3 years.

I prefer renting additional points from other members vs having lots of points and renting my points in the years we prefer to do something else. However my primary Disney strategy is to exchange into the DVC resorts since I can travel anytime during the year and rent additional DVC points whenever I need to.

There are lots of folks selling DVC reservations on various websites (for example see eBay) so there is a lot of competition. Savvy buyers, will shop around online for the best deal. 

NOTE: dvcbyrequest.com is currently selling reservations for $13 a point.


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## logan115 (Feb 3, 2012)

tomandrobin said:


> I rent points often. A point is a point, and if you are trying to maximize ROI then you need to factor upfront cost and yearly fees.
> 
> BCV may rent well in the summer, but a 300pt contract will cost about $75pp vs say a OKW at $45pp. MFs are lower at OKW and so is point usage. So how long it takes to over come that $9000 upfront cost and the $90 in MF difference.
> 
> So if you rent OKW at $10pp and BCV at $12pp (both realistic rental rates), that is a $600 per year difference, minus $90 MF diff. for a net of $510 per year difference. At that rate it will take 17.6 years of renting the BCV contract to surpass the ROI of the OKW contract.



Well said.  If someone is looking at the best rental property you need to look at the ROI.  As mentioned in other posts and from my own experience, I've found that many people that look to rent DVC points are not planning more than 7 months out and the vast majority of rentals are done in the 7 months and under range - at which point the home resort advantage is nullified.



MichaelColey said:


> I think you should also distinguish between renting out points and renting out a reservation.  $10-12 is probably the best you would do renting out points, but the right reservation (like a Studio at BCV during the F&W Festival) might rent out at considerably more.  October/November is "Choice Season", and a Studio is only 107 points.  I would suspect that you could get $1400 ($200/night) to $2100 ($300/night) for a reservation then.  Disney charges quite a bit more than that ($385-410/night + 12.5% tax, during that time).



While it is possible to get lucky and rent for more than $13 (it only takes one uninformed renter), I think it's going to be very difficult to get more than that.  Last year someone had multiple reservations for rent during F&W at BWV and BCV where the price per point was $20/pt !!  Needless to say those listings stayed active for quite some time and I imagine that either the price was dropped signifcantly or the reservations were cancelled.

I been on both sides of the rental and transfer process, if you know how your timeshare works (like most TUGGERS) it's not difficult at all.  Further, if you find yourself spending time browsing forums talking about timeshares the little bit of incremental work required to post points for rent and make a few calls (or check online with the new system) isn't that big of a deal IMO.

I don't have a ton of points and don't rent every year, but I will say that I do enjoy renting points and helping others plan their trips.  

Chris


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## janej (Feb 6, 2012)

After finding out that I have to do most of the work renting points through David, I posted an ads on mouseowner and rented most of my points for 2011 and 2012.   I asked for $10 pp, same price as I would get from David and got the money already.   It is so much easier now that we can check availability and make reservations online.   I also added Magical Express and Dining plan online.   I got $12 pp a few years ago.   But I'd hold on to my points even at this rate for the sell price is so low after paying commission.


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## hypnotiq (Feb 6, 2012)

mouseowners is great. I was able to rent points for what I needed in Sept @ VGC and was very pleased with the guy I worked with.


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## chunkygal (Feb 9, 2012)

Of course if you read the disboards, you can read the constant debate on buying to rent.

If you have to charge $20 a point you are paying too much. Remember, the asking price is just an ask, not what you have to pay. If you are looking to rent them a lot, you better low ball til you get a low low ball. 

OKW and SSR are large resorts, so easier to get ressies. I own at HHI and BWV. If you ever want to go to HHI (a small resort) in the summer, you should buy there to get the home court advantage. If not, then get OKW or SSR.

I have rented many times on the disboard before the Dave monopoly. I post there, so probably still could, but I might try mousesavers. Never had a problem. This year, when I wanted to rent out some extra points I "asked around" and had three people I know want to rent..so win-win. IT is about 1/2 the price of renting from Disney. 

But the bigger problem I usually have is wanting more points..and I have 515!


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