# Benefits of Different Hotel Timeshare Programs



## Larry315 (Jul 28, 2007)

Is there are chart or listing that compares the benefits and downsides of the major hotel point and trade programs.


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## grgs (Jul 28, 2007)

I don't believe there is, although it would be a nice addition to TUG.  If anyone owns all four (Starwood, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott), would they want to take a stab?  If not all four, maybe three of the four.  I could give it a try based on the TUG advice articles on each system if no one else wants to take it on, but I really only know Starwood.

Glorian


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## Pedro (Jul 28, 2007)

*Check this link*

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-05-08-biztravel-chart_N.htm


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## linsj (Jul 28, 2007)

Pedro said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-05-08-biztravel-chart_N.htm



That link only deals with hotels, not timeshares; plus it has mistakes.


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## Larry315 (Jul 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> I don't believe there is, although it would be a nice addition to TUG.  If anyone owns all four (Starwood, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott), would they want to take a stab?  If not all four, maybe three of the four.  I could give it a try based on the TUG advice articles on each system if no one else wants to take it on, but I really only know Starwood.
> 
> Glorian


If you or someone else would do this, it would make it much easier to choose between timeshare commpanies.

Thank you.


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## Kal (Jul 30, 2007)

Make sure you carefully compare the process of successfully requesting a reservation at either the "home resort" or another sister resort in that specific hotel timeshare array.  There are many aspects to consider.

Also compare the capital costs to purchase "equivalent" units and the respective annual maintenance fees.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 30, 2007)

In your spare time of course...  :rofl:


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## mesamirage (Jul 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> I don't believe there is, although it would be a nice addition to TUG. If anyone owns all four (Starwood, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott), would they want to take a stab? If not all four, maybe three of the four. I could give it a try based on the TUG advice articles on each system if no one else wants to take it on, but I really only know Starwood.
> 
> Glorian


 
There was a good thread awhile back that compared the big 4... there were lots of great inputs and opinions... take a look: 

Even put in your Starwood input and revive the thread....

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34031

Of course I disagreed with the results... since I'm a Hyatt first type of guy  and it got ranked the lowest.. but then again, I think it has the least amount of exposure....

Steve


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## grgs (Jul 30, 2007)

Ok, I'll see what I can get done in the next week or two (off work until Aug. 13).  Not making any guarantees, but working in your favor is that I had foot surgery, and I'm supposed to spend a good amount of the day with my foot up and iced.  So really, this is a good activity to pass time?  Not that I don't have work e-mail to attend to, but I should least get something going here.

Glorian


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## grgs (Jul 30, 2007)

Kal said:


> Make sure you carefully compare the process of successfully requesting a reservation at either the "home resort" or another sister resort in that specific hotel timeshare array.  There are many aspects to consider.



Ummm, not sure how much detail one would want in a chart.  I envision the chart as a one page handout intended to give a birds eye view of the four systems.  Especially since there are already TUG advice articles on Hilton, Hyatt, and Starwood with a fair amount of detail.  I will include links to these articles.



Kal said:


> Also compare the capital costs to purchase "equivalent" units and the respective annual maintenance fees.



I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  Are you wanting a comparison between say Westin Mission Hills and Marriott's Desert Springs Villas?  If so, I'm not sure how this can be put into a chart.

In any case, I'll get something together and send it out to be reviewed.

Glorian


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## grgs (Jul 30, 2007)

Ok, here's the first pass--attached as a Word doc.  I'm happy to add categories any categories you'd like, but I do think this should stay concise.  And, of course, please correct any errors!

Thanks!

Glorian


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## myip (Jul 30, 2007)

*Hilton.*

grg,

great information...

No elite benefit but allow to  convert to Hilton Honors points at 1:23 or 1:20 ratios.


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## Larry315 (Jul 30, 2007)

I am sorry to hear of your need for surgery and hope you soon feel better.

Your time and effort are greatly appreciated.


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## grgs (Jul 30, 2007)

myip said:


> grg,
> 
> great information...
> 
> No elite benefit but allow to  convert to Hilton Honors points at 1:23 or 1:20 ratios.



Hi, sorry to be slow, but I wasn't quite sure if the above is an addition to be added to one of the boxes?  Is this something that does transfer to resale buyers?

Thanks for your help!

Glorian


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## myip (Jul 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> Hi, sorry to be slow, but I wasn't quite sure if the above is an addition to be added to one of the boxes?  Is this something that does transfer to resale buyers?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Glorian



As a resale buyer, you can convert to Hilton Honor Points.  You can use the same box as now elite  -- put a star next to it and allow resale buyer to convert to Hilton Honors but count toward elite benefits.


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## Kal (Jul 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> Ummm, not sure how much detail one would want in a chart. I envision the chart as a one page handout intended to give a birds eye view of the four systems. Especially since there are already TUG advice articles on Hilton, Hyatt, and Starwood with a fair amount of detail. I will include links to these articles.


 
The process in getting a reservation can be extremely difficult and frustrating with some of the systems.  This is a major complaint with many owners.





> I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Are you wanting a comparison between say Westin Mission Hills and Marriott's Desert Springs Villas? If so, I'm not sure how this can be put into a chart.


 
Make sure a person can compare apples to apples.  One system might have a purchase price of $110K while another has a price of $45K.


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## Kal (Jul 30, 2007)

grgs said:


> Ok, here's the first pass--attached as a Word doc. I'm happy to add categories any categories you'd like, but I do think this should stay concise. And, of course, please correct any errors!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Glorian


 
The Hyatt program for Internal Exchanges should be 12 to 0 months.


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## Fredm (Jul 30, 2007)

Dt. Chicago said:


> Is there are chart or listing that compares the benefits and downsides of the major hotel point and trade programs.



That would be an interesting exercise. So much so, that I tried to construct one.  Unfortunately, after scribbling five pages worth, I concluded that it was a self-defeating effort.

 The result only created confusion for its own sake. Rather that clarify and quantify, the comparisons obscured the more fundamental evaluation criteria. 
It would only make sense to someone who was already very familiar with the systems involved. Hence, not productive for its intended use.

So, I took a different tact. I assumed that one would want the information to analyze what system would best work for them.

 With that objective in mind, I offer the following opinions about relevant issues in the decision making process. This opens a real can of worms. I am sure almost all will find reason to disagree with one or more points. Most like their timeshares for their own reasons. It is very much a subjective matter. Which is precisely my meaning.

Having said that, here goes:

1) To buy or not. There are lots of subjective reasons to own a timeshare. But it should first make economic sense to do so. No one can predict the future. However, one should be able to reasonably say the purchase price plus the ongoing cost of carry, will be spent on vacation accommodations if you do not buy. In this sense, it is merely redirecting funds from a rental situation to an equity position. If so, all the other benefits (spacious accommodations, kitchens, etc) are true benefits without meaningful additional cost. At some point in the future, you can sell it and get some amount of the original capital cost back.  If not so, you are creating a bill that did not previously exist. Proceed with eyes wide open. 

2. Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Disney, Starwood, etc. all have very nice properties.
Locations overlap in many cases. Irrespective of system, buy the location you would enjoy occupying repeatedly, over time.  Buy the season you would most often occupy, and the unit size that best suits your needs.  If you intend to purchase with the thought of not having a "home resort" , but purely as an exchange vehicle within a system, don't buy at all. "Exchange" properties are best left to a second or third  timeshare purchase , not the first.

3 Hospitality Brand. Preference for brand of hospitality is personal and subjective. Stick to the brand (and location) of your preference. I enjoy Marriott. I prefer their food service. Not a consideration mentioned by most, but a personal preference that is important to me. Whatever criteria is used, one should know why they prefer one hospitality brand over another  Brand selection for these personal reasons are important. Not something to treat as a secondary consideration. 

4). Flexibility.  Here is where the buzz will be. And, where the developer puts the sizzle. It is where the comparisons are most often made. Hotel loyalty points, internal exchange priority, split week use, etc.
It is also where the phonus bolnus runs most freely.
I have tried my best to unravel this. It all comes down to a few inescapable truths. 
 - You own the deed you purchase. Period. Everything else is intended to portray flexibility in use. But, none of it is guaranteed. Not even in the short term. Purchases made based on anything other than what is entitled in the deed is subject to change, and will be changed. Never for the better. 
 Why? They exist to provide the developer with the flexibility to benefit, not the owner. 
 The fact of the matter is that they are intended as a marketing response to the only real measure of flexibility; convenient and prolific exchange choices.
In this respect it is a marketing response to the Marriott system. Marriott has ~ 60 resorts worldwide. Internal exchange works well. Hilton, Hyatt and Starwood combined do not have 60 resorts. 

If exchange opportunity is important, buy the system that has the resorts in the locations you wish to travel. All the smoke about point based exchange, does not make the use more flexible as a practical matter. It only sounds  like it does. There is a big difference between the hypothetically possible and the routinely doable. Don't allow the intentional obscuring of this simple fact make the selection process more complicated.
In the final analysis, you are buying into a network of resorts. Exchange is not guaranteed, but more likely to occur within the "family" of properties within that system. 

 - Hotel loyalty point alternatives to timeshare use can literally be discontinued tomorrow. While a secondary consideration, one should not place undo weight on a program feature that can be unilaterally discontinued at any time. In the best of circumstances they are poor deal economically and will then be further devalued over time.

5). Price. I won't go there. It is very much tied to hospitality preference, and how you would spend your money if you did not buy a timeshare. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

I know that this may sound like an over-simplification. I hope so. The effective use of the system selected is complicated enough to many. Trying to compare the nuances within the complex framework of each system is not productive. Its just complicated without yielding comparative advantage. Its just internal machinery that should not obscure the issues that I believe should matter to a first time buyer.


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## grgs (Jul 31, 2007)

Kal said:


> The process in getting a reservation can be extremely difficult and frustrating with some of the systems.  This is a major complaint with many owners.


 
I agree this does seem to be a major issue with some of the systems, but I'm not sure how to convey that in a chart--especially since this is anecdotal information.



Kal said:


> Make sure a person can compare apples to apples.  One system might have a purchase price of $110K while another has a price of $45K.



The problem here is that each system is going to have a range of prices.  As an example, Starwood units can run from $7,900 (EOY 1 bedroom low season in Myrtle Beach) to over $100,000 (EY 3 bedroom fixed week 7 in St. John), with all kinds of price points in between.  MF are also run the gamut.  Now, if we had a location that all four were selling, I could add a row for the current price on a 2 bedroom LO.  Hawaii comes to mind for Hilton, Marriott, and Starwood.  I'm not sure if Hyatt has a location in current sales that is in common with the others, though.  If you have a suggestion, let me know.

Thanks!

Glorian


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## grgs (Jul 31, 2007)

Kal said:


> The Hyatt program for Internal Exchanges should be 12 to 0 months.



Thanks for catching that!

Glorian


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## grgs (Jul 31, 2007)

Dt. Chicago said:


> Is there are chart or listing that compares the benefits and downsides of the major hotel point and trade programs.



I realized after working on this that a chart is best suited for bits of data, which is what I've put together.  In terms of a more narrative description of benefits/downsides, I think the link that Mesamirage provided is a better vehicle for getting at that kind of information.  Maybe that thread should just be made a sticky?  I still think the chart might be helpful, but in conjunction with other sources of information.  Anyway, I'll get a revised version out in a day or so.

Glorian


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## grgs (Jul 31, 2007)

myip said:


> As a resale buyer, you can convert to Hilton Honor Points.  You can use the same box as now elite  -- put a star next to it and allow resale buyer to convert to Hilton Honors but count toward elite benefits.



Ok, I'll make that edit.  Thanks!  

Glorian


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## Kal (Jul 31, 2007)

There are some very good considerations presented in this thread, but a line item comparison is difficult in a 2-dimensional chart.

It is safe to assume a person will buy a unit at a level of quality, price and location that meets their needs. It's probably safe to say the quality levels are consistent among all the major hotel programs. Pricing is all over the map, but a person must be careful to compare equivalently priced units. However, having the opportunity to "exchange" a $45K unit for $145K unit could be a very important consideration. 

After the unit is purchased two key factors remain - annual costs and the reservation system. It's fairly easy to obtain maintenance fee information so due diligence is necessary to make sure there are no surprises. That leaves routine reservations which will likely be the sole important issue for the life of the ownership. Many hotel reservation systems are NOT user friendly to a point where the owner wishes (s)he had never made the purchase. This then becomes a deal killer issue which must be fully understood well before the purchase transaction.


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## grgs (Aug 3, 2007)

Attached is the updated chart.  I made myip's & Kal's suggested changes.  I couldn't find one location where even all four companies are building, so I didn't add a row for comparing prices.  Should this be added as a sticky?  I didn't invest a huge amount of time in this, so if the consensus is that it's not "sticky-worthy," my feelings won't be hurt.

Glorian


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## Bill4728 (Aug 3, 2007)

grgs said:


> Attached is the updated chart.  I made myip's & Kal's suggested changes.  I couldn't find one location where even all four companies are building, so I didn't add a row for comparing prices.  Should this be added as a sticky?  I didn't invest a huge amount of time in this, so if the consensus is that it's not "sticky-worthy," my feelings won't be hurt.
> 
> Glorian



Sticky worthy?  Wow you bet it is.

Great job and Thanks


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## Kal (Aug 3, 2007)

Not quite right for Hyatt:

Reservation at Home Resort is 12-6 months

Internal Exchange is 12-0 months and up to 8 months after the owned week.


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## Bill4728 (Aug 3, 2007)

Kal,

So, at your home resort you can be assured of a unit between 6-12 months and when someone gives up their unit at their home resort, it is available for internal exchange. Therefore sometimes as early as 12 months?


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## jerseygirl (Aug 3, 2007)

It's definitely sponge worthy ... I mean sticky worthy!  Great Job!!!


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## grgs (Aug 3, 2007)

Kal said:


> Not quite right for Hyatt:
> 
> Reservation at Home Resort is 12-6 months
> 
> Internal Exchange is 12-0 months and up to 8 months after the owned week.



Okey dokey, I misunderstood you the first time.  I'm just going to copy and paste your exact wording above for the Internal Exchange section.  So here is the latest version of the chart.

Thanks!

Glorian


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## grgs (Aug 3, 2007)

jerseygirl said:


> It's definitely sponge worthy ... I mean sticky worthy!  Great Job!!!



Good to know there's another Seinfeld fan out there!

Glorian


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## Kal (Aug 3, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> Kal,
> 
> So, at your home resort you can be assured of a unit between 6-12 months and when someone gives up their unit at their home resort, it is available for internal exchange. Therefore sometimes as early as 12 months?


 
That's true, but it's not "a unit" but rather the very specific unit you own at your home resort.

A person doesn't even have to notify Hyatt that they will NOT use their owned unit.  If they use any of the points associated with their owned unit, the system recognizes they won't use it and the unit is made available for internal exchange.

For 2008, I received confirmation of my internal exchange 11 months in advance of the requested date.


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## jerseygirl (Aug 3, 2007)

grgs said:


> Good to know there's another Seinfeld fan out there!
> 
> Glorian



 Yes, I miss it very much -- still hoping for a reunion show (a movie won't be enough for me!!)


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## Fredm (Aug 3, 2007)

Glorian. 

Nice job!

 Club Fees - Marriott mf's do not include I.I. membership.


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## Courts (Aug 4, 2007)

OK, I'm a Starwood owner, but Marriott has NO internal exchange program?

How do they get to stay at other Marriott resorts?

Just curious.

BTW, great chart.

.


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 4, 2007)

Perhaps there should be a star by the Hilton "No of untis built" to reflect HGVC vs the other non-HGVC resorts


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## PigsDad (Aug 4, 2007)

grgs said:


> Attached is the updated chart.  I made myip's & Kal's suggested changes.  I couldn't find one location where even all four companies are building, so I didn't add a row for comparing prices.  Should this be added as a sticky?  I didn't invest a huge amount of time in this, so if the consensus is that it's not "sticky-worthy," my feelings won't be hurt.
> 
> Glorian



Thanks for putting this together.  I have a couple of corrections to the Hilton:  

The reservation window is 12 months for your owned unit, 9 months for making reservations with points at any location.

Also, the note regarding the elite perks is not correct.  Resale buyers have the same option to convert points to Hilton HHonors points.

I also agree with Steamboat Bill with regard to the number of locations.  Only 7 (I believe) of the locations are Hilton developed -- the rest are affiliates.  (2 in Orlando, 3 in Vegas, and 2 in Hawaii).

Kurt


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Courts said:


> OK, I'm a Starwood owner, but Marriott has NO internal exchange program?
> 
> How do they get to stay at other Marriott resorts?
> 
> ...



Marriott owners do have an internal exchange program through II.  They just don't have one through Marriott.   Basically, in II any Marriott deposits are only seen by other Marriott deposits for the first 24 days.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Also, II fees ARE NOT included with your mf.  It is your choice if you want to join II.  I'm sure there are many that don't.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

The advice section for Marriott can be seen here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Would it be possible to include # of states & countries each company has timeshares located in?  I didn't realize that Hilton had 38 locations.  In which states are those 38 locations?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Also, Marriott owners can make reservations at any time if there is availability.  YOu don't have to have to make your reservation at 13 months or 12 months.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Aug 4, 2007)

I'm sure I'm adding way more to your chart than you want so if you don't want to add this you don't have to.

In Starwood, Starwood picks the week & location you will deposit in II.  So let's say you reserve a prime summer week at Maui to deposit in II, Starwood can pick a different week and resort location.  And, I think this is because Starwood space banks where Marriott actual only deposits actual weeks.

With Marriott, whatever week you reserve is the week you deposit in II.

Also, Marriott charges to split your unit.  Maybe you could include cancellations fees, etc..  All the nickel and dime stuff.


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## grgs (Aug 5, 2007)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> I'm sure I'm adding way more to your chart than you want so if you don't want to add this you don't have to.
> 
> In Starwood, Starwood picks the week & location you will deposit in II.  So let's say you reserve a prime summer week at Maui to deposit in II, Starwood can pick a different week and resort location.  And, I think this is because Starwood space banks where Marriott actual only deposits actual weeks.
> 
> ...



Well, I don't mind adding to the chart, if it can be done concisely.  And, of course, I want to correct any errors!  I added the links to the TUG advice articles to provide a way to get to the "wordier" information.  I think trying to explain the difference between how a Starwood owner gets a week on deposit vs. a Marriott owner is way too complicated for a chart.  I think the Starwood advice article does a good job of explaining this.

I will try to incorporate some of your suggestions, as well as the Hilton changes listed above.  Not sure when I'll get to it, though.  I'm on vacation now, and I'll be back at work next week.

Glorian


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