# Aulani Thoughts



## GregT

All,

I originally posted this in a different thread, but am starting a new one because it's a little off the original topic.

As background, I'm going on a Disney cruise in April 2012 and am committed to $10K for the cruise.  I called Disney to ask if there was a cruise incentive for buying Aulani direct (the answer was no). I like Hawaii (alot) and I think Aulani is going to be fantastic.  I'm visiting Aulani in June 2013 courtesy of a Direct Exchange with another TUGger.

But what was interesting to me (and TUGgers probably already know this) was that Disney couldn't even talk to me because they are not approved to sell in California....and weren't sure when they would be.

Wow....wow....tough break when you open the resort and can't sell to the closest U.S. customers.   

The other point of this thread is for those individuals who might buy Disney resale with Aulani as their primary target because they live West Coast (like me).

The Disney system is a very tough nut to crack --- it is very tough to "uptrade" within the Disney system. I like buying systems where there is a property with reasonable MFs and a slug of points -- Disney isn't structured as such.... Even with an SSR, I need 490 points to get the week I would want at Aulani -- I've not found a way around $2,300-$2,500 in MFs....

Interesting stuff....

Best to all,

Greg


Edited: The rep did tell me that he did believed there was *not *a developer subsidy in the $5.73 MF for Aulani. Not sure if I believe him, but thought I'd pass along the unproven comment. GT


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## tomandrobin

Greg

I would only buy Aulani Resort is it was a must have....Like Atlantis was for me. 

Give the resort a little bit of time and you will be able to trade into the resort for a fraction of the cost. 

Tom

PS - Hopefully you used a TA to maximize your OBC for your April cruise. You'll get a couple hundred $$ in on-board-credits (OBC).


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## presley

When you visit Aulani, you will know if it is worth it you to pay to stay there for your desired room/season.  I think it is important that if you really want to stay in a certain type of unit in a certain season, that you honor that and don't buy something that you don't want in hopes of being able to trade in for the long term.

Have you looked at buying resale VGC?  The MFs are lower than SSR and it is in high enough demand that I suspect it would be easy to trade into Aulani, as other Californians would want to visit both places.  I saw a resale contract somewhere (one of the big 4 resellers) for around $90./pp.  Also, remember that if you aren't going to visit Aulani each year, you can get by on less points and use the bank/borrow system.  

Most important thing I suggest is to think about where you want to visit most often and if you are picky about which type of villa that you stay in.  If you buy exactly what you want, you won't have to keep second guessing yourself over the years.  And don't get too caught up with the thoughts of how much other points cost.  The cost of the other points doesn't matter if you can't use them they way you want to.  That is more of a waste of money than buying Aulani.


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## SueDonJ

Greg, the reason DVC can't sell you Aulani points is because back in July the Hawaiian regulatory agencies forced them to suspend sales when it was determined that the maintenance fees they'd set would seriously underfund the resort.  Three top execs, including Jim Lewis who was President of DVC, were summarily fired because of the mess.  In September DVC received approval to sell in Hawaii again, with the MF raised to $5.73 from the original $4.31 per point.  They've yet to receive approval to sell again in any other states but they did say that their priorities will be "Florida, California, New York and Illinois, its most-important sales markets."  This thread explains it all pretty well; check out the link in Post #22 to the Orlando Sentinel story.

I'd be verrrry cautious about buying at Aulani because of all this.  For one thing, Disney didn't give any notice at all that there was a problem to owners who purchased before sales were shut down, and they say they'll be subsidizing those owners throughout the length of those contracts.  (I'm sure the sales person you talked to was happy you didn't ask him about the subsidy for those who closed with the original $4.31 MF's.  )  For another, Aulani is now among the highest-priced of ANY timeshares, not just Disney, and with the rocky start it doesn't bode well for ongoing owners' costs.  It's not going to sell quickly so exchanging in shouldn't be a problem for a while, I would think.  Reading the disboards there are a whole lot of non-Aulani owners who are getting reservations with no problems at all.

If I was considering DVC (and I do as a mental exercise just in case Don will ever agree to it  ) I'd be looking at a resale of any Disney World-onsite resorts except for Beach Club Villas (because for one thing, we didn't like our stay there, and for another, those are the only WDW contracts on which Disney regularly exercises ROFR.)  I'd buy enough that I could finagle with banking and borrowing to get one trip onsite and one trip to Aulani every three-four years.  You have to do some thinking because each resort has different per-point prices, different MF's and different point requirements for stays - play around with the Points Charts and current resale listings  here to figure out what you'll need for the particular units/dates you might use most often.

You may want to to look more closely at the Disneyland DVC resales (VGC, I think?) than I would because you're on the west coast.  With fewer units there the resale inventory is more limited and higher-priced than any of the Florida resorts, but it will be easier for you to exchange out of there into any of the others than it would be for you to buy a WDW-based DVC and exchange into the CA one.

I'm wondering if the rental market for Aulani stays will eventually flesh out so that Aulani owners will be able to charge more for their points than the standard $10-$12 for all others.  Sure, Aulani stays require more points than any other DVC resorts for the same units/dates, but Aulani is so much more expensive that I wouldn't be surprised to see a premium even on top of the point premium.  Should be interesting to watch.


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## Twinkstarr

I agree with Sue, Tom and Judy.

If I was a left coaster like yourself, I'd buy VGC if you were interested in DVC. Small resort, so it would be useful for direct trades or renting or trying to get into Aulani at 7 months. MF's are pretty reasonable for DVC.

I own at DVC VB, which has  MF's but we love the area/resort and to get a week in one of the oceanfront Beach Cottages you need the 11 month window. 

You are going to Aulani in 2013, why don't you see how you like it first. I don't think they are going to be sold out by then and the resale market might have more options(you would be surprised at how fast some of the new resorts hit the resale market).


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## Gracey

Just an FYI, i had no trouble booking an Aulani 2 bedroom for this May at the 7 month window with my OKW points.  All the different view categories were available also.


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## bnoble

I would wait a few years on Aulani to see (a) if the demand at the 11-month window justifies owning there and (b) to take advantage of the inevitable resales that will be available, at what will almost certainly be a nice discount.  In the meantime, I'd rent from or exchange with a DVC owner.

It's too early to know what the long-term demand will be, because so little has been sold vs. what's been declared into the condominium.  But, I expect that going forward it will be possible to get many desirable reservations at the 7-month window.  The resort is not that small.


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## GregT

All,

Thank you -- these are excellent points.

I definitely plan to wait until after the Aulani 2013 trip before making a move -- the only catalyst might have been if there was a desirable cruise incentive (which there isn't).   

I too believe that Aulani will be readily available at 7 months out, and that between banking/borrowing, a medium size point package should make it accessible every other, or every third year.  My trip would be in mid-June, so I think the competition would be modest.

But there is no getting around the high points chart -- it's stiff -- and very similar to Marriott's new point system and the high points for Maui Ocean Club.   You have to really want to go there, and be willing to sacrifice a lot of points.   We will see if it's worth it, but I'm looking forward to the 2013 trip!

The comments about VGC are good ones too -- I'm not sure how much of their lower MFs are because they are still enjoying a developer subsidy.   That's one of the reasons SSR seemed interesting, I believe it is old enough to have exhausted its developer subsidy, but that may be mistaken.

One of the things that I really like about Disney is the ability to transfer points.   I can envision direct exchanges occurring with Disney owners that want to go to Maui or the Big Island, and because of my own timeshare ownership, there may be point trades possible.   We will see!

All the best,

Greg


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## tomandrobin

SSR has been completely declared and all the units are now part of the Resort, except the 2-3% required by Florida law. DVC pays rent to SSR for use of the office area and preview center, but I do not think there are any subsidies from Disney. 

VGC have been sold out since last fall. 

I also believe there will be availability at Aulani at the 7 month window. There are still 2 more phases of villas to be completed, so the short term will be more limited. Originally, 50% of the sales were projected to Japanese buyers. The earthquake and economy has really hurt those sales, but I think they will pick up. If the resort does sell 50% to Japanese buyers, that will hurt availability of finding points to rent or exchange. 

 Like I said earlier, I would only buy Aulani if it was a must have.


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## BocaBum99

I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it.  I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village.  It's a far better value.


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## SueDonJ

GregT said:


> ... One of the things that I really like about Disney is the ability to transfer points.   I can envision direct exchanges occurring with Disney owners that want to go to Maui or the Big Island, and because of my own timeshare ownership, there may be point trades possible.   We will see!
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Greg



Like you I think direct exchanges of reservations between DVC and other timeshare owners are a good way to exchange without getting into the limitations of II and RCI, etc.  But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about the ability to transfer DVC points.  Disney's system is actually more restrictive than other timeshare systems when it comes to transfers - a few years ago they changed the rules to allow only one transfer per Use Year into or out of an owner's account.

So, for example, you could purchase a VGC contract for however many points you'd need for the stays you expect to book most often, but if you're counting on points transfers to get the additional points you'd need for intermittent Aulani stays, you'd have to find one owner with the total number of points you need.  Say you want to splurge and do Aulani right every five years - if it costs 200 more points than what you own, you'd need to find someone with 200 points to rent.  Where with Marriott, for example, you could play around with a number of transfers - and take advantage of any distress bargains - with Disney you'd have to pretty much plan well in advance if you need that many points from one source.

*****
Hmmmm.  This brings up a question for the DVC owners - with only one transfer allowed per Use Year, is it even possible to bank and borrow three years' worth of points for one trip in the second year?  Do they count those transfers in the Use Years that the points originate or in the Use Year that the reservation takes place?  If it's the reservation year, doesn't that mean you can EITHER bank one year into the next OR borrow one year into the previous?

[eta] I may have answered my own question here.  Is it that banking and borrowing are not considered "transfers" because all of the points are being used by the owner?


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## GregT

BocaBum99 said:


> I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it.  I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village.  It's a far better value.



Agreed -- I really really really liked HHV when we were there a couple weeks ago.  It's hard to pay a points premium where there is such a high quality accomodation available so close by.   But I'm thinking HHV is perfect for Jonell and me -- and Aulani is more of family trip.




SueDonJ said:


> Like you I think direct exchanges of reservations between DVC and other timeshare owners are a good way to exchange without getting into the limitations of II and RCI, etc.  But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about the ability to transfer DVC points.  Disney's system is actually more restrictive than other timeshare systems when it comes to transfers - a few years ago they changed the rules to allow only one transfer per Use Year into or out of an owner's account.



Yes, Disney is moderately more restrictive than Marriott's with only one transfer per Usage Year however, you are allowed to bank points into the following year (even if they were transferred).   Either way you look at it, there is a lot of trading/banking/borrowing in order to get the number of points necessary.

Aulani is simply an expensive property to visit -- but I'll be curious to see if it's worth it when I go!

Best,

Greg


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## slum808

I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani. 

Now the confusing part.
     The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year. 

     If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013. 

     If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.


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## MichaelColey

Like all of the other DVC properties, I have a hard time justifying the cost compared to other nearby alternatives.  At 500 points a week for a 2BR, that's about $2500 in MF and $5000 in total cost (if you amortize the upfront costs over 10 years).  Most other timeshares in Hawaii have a total cost between $1000 and $2000 and you can exchange in for even less than that.

If you're happy in a Studio, it's quite a bit more reasonable (like other DVC properties).  At an average of about 150 points a week, that's $750 or $1500, which is in line with a low-end to moderate hotel (and an Aulani studio is clearly much better than a moderate hotel).

Before we got into timeshares, we used to spend about $100-$150/night for hotels when we went to Hawaii.  Since we've got into timeshares (and including our two upcoming Hawaii trips), we've exchanged into very nice 2BR units for an average cost (MFs and prorated upfront costs of exchanged units plus exchange fees) of about $60/night.  To spend more like $700/night for the Disney name is unfathomable to me.

When I can start exchange in (at costs comparable to or somewhat higher than what stays costs me now), I look forward to checking it out.  But there's no way I'll buy/own to stay there.


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## GregT

slum808 said:


> I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani.
> 
> Now the confusing part.
> The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year.
> 
> If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013.
> 
> If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.



All,

Steve has done a very nice job of articulating our actual trade -- and the advantages and disadvantages.  It's more complicated when combining points from two trades, which may be necessary due to the limitation of only one transfer per year -- and two trades may be necessary because Aulani needs so many points.   I found my second DVC partner from someone who wanted to visit Maui and I traded access to Worldmark in Maui for the additional DVC points needed.

So.....I can envision someday owning a small/medium DVC package (100 points or so) one day and then doing trades like these to acquire the remaining balance needed.

Alternatively, it may be more efficient to simply repeat the type of trade that Steve and I completed, which appears to work well for the both of us.

Steve, thanks for posting this!

Best,

Greg


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## tomandrobin

Greg

Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points. 

Tom


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## heathpack

tomandrobin said:


> Greg
> 
> Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points.
> 
> Tom



However, you cannot transfer banked points.  This all starts to get very complicated if multiple transfers, banking and borrowing are needed.  And the more complicated it is, the less of a chance you'll get the details to work out.

I have found DVCers who are not involved with other types of TS to be a suspicious lot.  One would probaly have the most luck with TUG DVC owners.

H


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## SueDonJ

slum808 said:


> I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani.
> 
> Now the confusing part.
> The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year.
> 
> If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013.
> 
> If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.





GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Steve has done a very nice job of articulating our actual trade -- and the advantages and disadvantages.  It's more complicated when combining points from two trades, which may be necessary due to the limitation of only one transfer per year -- and two trades may be necessary because Aulani needs so many points.   I found my second DVC partner from someone who wanted to visit Maui and I traded access to Worldmark in Maui for the additional DVC points needed.
> 
> So.....I can envision someday owning a small/medium DVC package (100 points or so) one day and then doing trades like these to acquire the remaining balance needed.
> 
> Alternatively, it may be more efficient to simply repeat the type of trade that Steve and I completed, which appears to work well for the both of us.
> 
> Steve, thanks for posting this!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I think I understand.     Steve has used his one transfer/year to get the 80 additional points he needs to add to his 270 points to get the total 350 needed for the reservation Greg wants, and then you'll exchange reservations with each other once the reservation windows open and you're able to confirm the stays you each want.  It's a fairly low-risk exchange where control remains with the owner of the reservation and not the renter.

But if Greg is an owner and wants to keep total control of any reservations, the additional points he needs will have to be transferred in to his account, and what you two are doing now won't work for those purposes because Steve couldn't transfer out of his account the 80 points that were transferred in.  That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the necessity of finding one owner who has the total additional points needed to supplement another DVC owner's one stay.

Aulani's high point requirements for stays really aren't conducive to a large amount of point/reservation exchanges between DVC owners, IMO, certainly not the number that take place at the WDW resorts.  But for the next few years availability at the 7-mos window shouldn't be an issue which means non-Aulani DVC owners should be able to get what they want, and reservation exchanges between owners and non-owners could be a healthy market.


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## tomandrobin

heathpack said:


> I have found DVCers who are not involved with other types of TS to be a suspicious lot.  One would probably have the most luck with TUG DVC owners.



And over-values their DVC points when trying to make a trade.


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## slum808

tomandrobin said:


> And over-values their DVC points when trying to make a trade.



Is it overvalued if that is what the market is willing to pay? In my case I could have easily rented my points for $2700-3200. That's enough to rent most weeks owners want. That is one of the reasons most dvcers have abandoned using RCI.  Again in my particular case its easier to trade with Greg because his points allow him to request a specific date I need, which I might not find on Redweek. Also gets rid of any potential tax issues that most chose to ignore with rentals.


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## rickandcindy23

> Originally Posted by BocaBum99
> I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it. I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. It's a far better value.


You live on Oahu, so maybe that colors your opinion a bit.  

We have 500 DVC points available to us right now, half of which we didn't have to reimburse fees, and we can borrow another 250.  Needless to say, I am thinking about booking Aulani for about five nights in a 2 bedroom for us to stay with Mom in March.  I haven't decided whether to do it or not, but Rick is very interested in staying at Aulani.  I could use some Hawaiian print shirts with Mickey on 'em.


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## tomandrobin

slum808 said:


> Is it overvalued if that is what the market is willing to pay? In my case I could have easily rented my points for $2700-3200. That's enough to rent most weeks owners want. That is one of the reasons most dvcers have abandoned using RCI.  Again in my particular case its easier to trade with Greg because his points allow him to request a specific date I need, which I might not find on Redweek. Also gets rid of any potential tax issues that most chose to ignore with rentals.



Over valued, in that whenever I have offered my Atlantis week or St John week to a DVC member in exchanged for a comparable DVC unit. They almost always feel they are getting cheated in the exchange.


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## heathpack

tomandrobin said:


> Over valued, in that whenever I have offered my Atlantis week or St John week to a DVC member in exchanged for a comparable DVC unit. They almost always feel they are getting cheated in the exchange.



Yes, I have offered a Hyatt Grand Aspen studio ski week for a DVC studio.  I would accept a DVC reservation in the 120 point range, worth about $1200.  The Hyatt week would rent for considerably more than that.  Yet I am met with suspicion.

Obviously the thing to do is to rent out the Hyatt week for cash, about $2000, or deposit in II and work the system such that one gets multiple weeks of trades in II, or deposit in SFX and take a 1BR Grand Mayan, or trade privately on TUG for DVC, or just go to DVC some other time (we like to go to WDW maybe once every 4 years)  Don't get me wrong- I'll still offer Hyatts up on Disney sites, no skin off my nose.  But I will be continued to be amused when someone thinks a May week in a studio at VWL is worth 4 times more than a ski week in Aspen at a luxe resort.


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## rickandcindy23

Disney over-values its own product by renting the Deluxe Villas for ridiculous prices.  This probably helps sales, but to me it is very misleading as to the real value of a DVC unit.  $3-4K for a one bedroom for a week rented directly from Disney is ridiculous, and who pays that price, anyway?

The values DVC gives to their product seems to taint the DVC owners' idea of their worth.  If any of these people saw the Marriott Grande Vista or Vistana Villages, they might realize how ridiculous their assumptions are about what an "even trade" is.  

Still, so glad we own DVC.  :rofl: I just had to do it.  Aulani looks wonderful.


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## presley

I am still glad that own, too.  I know we all pay a premium to have it, but at the end of the day, or at the end of our lives, it's more about how we spent our *time* and not so much about how much money we have left over.  

Trade values... yes, it is hard to come with what is "fair" for both parties.  If you trade DVC points to RCI for a 2 bedroom during high season, you trade away 270 points.  However, a DVC owner cannot book a 2 bedroom during high season in DVC for 270 points.


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## GregT

tomandrobin said:


> Greg
> 
> Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points.
> 
> Tom



Tom (and all DVC TUGgers!),

Am I thinking about Usage Year correctly if I do end up buying one  of these things?   

Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary?  Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.

Since it is very possible I would pursue trades to try and get the points needed, I would probably need a trade that provides points received in March/April of Even year before my anniversary date (which I then bank into the Odd year) and then another trade of points received in the August/September Even year after my anniversary date, so I have the sufficient points I need when Aulani opens up in November at 7 months before the Odd year reservation?

I think that would work, but would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks very much!

Greg


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## GregT

presley said:


> I am still glad that own, too.  I know we all pay a premium to have it, but at the end of the day, or at the end of our lives, it's more about how we spent our *time* and not so much about how much money we have left over.



I agree -- this is how I feel about Maui Ocean Club -- even though I paid a pretty penny for it, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again -- Direct purchase and all.  I love that property and the memories and connection is very powerful.

JimF on the Marriott board teases me that I need to put the spreadsheets away and just focus on the vacations, but there is something oddly therapeutic for me in playing with these things like I do.

These timeshares have been wonderful for me and for my family, and I look forward to many many more happy memories in them.

All the best,

Greg


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## MichaelColey

rickandcindy23 said:


> Disney over-values its own product by renting the Deluxe Villas for ridiculous prices. This probably helps sales, but to me it is very misleading as to the real value of a DVC unit. $3-4K for a one bedroom for a week rented directly from Disney is ridiculous, and who pays that price, anyway?


People do.  And more.  For non-Villas, too.  Try pricing a Deluxe "resort" (i.e. their hotel units) in a Club/Concierge level.  For instance, the rack rate for a standard view for a week in the Yacht Club on the Club level in the middle of October (a fairly slow period) is $4015.  Score a 30% discount and add 12.5% taxes, and you're still talking nearly $3200.  Add on the dining plan, park tickets and some souvenirs, and you're talking about a $6k vacation.  And people pay it.  I saw one thread on DIS where people compared their total vacation costs.  Most were in the $5k+ range, and many from $8-10k.


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## presley

GregT said:


> Tom (and all DVC TUGgers!),
> 
> Am I thinking about Usage Year correctly if I do end up buying one  of these things?
> 
> Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary?  Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.
> 
> Since it is very possible I would pursue trades to try and get the points needed, I would probably need a trade that provides points received in March/April of Even year before my anniversary date (which I then bank into the Odd year) and then another trade of points received in the August/September Even year after my anniversary date, so I have the sufficient points I need when Aulani opens up in November at 7 months before the Odd year reservation?
> 
> I think that would work, but would appreciate any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> Greg




If you want to go in June, your best use year month will be July, if you buy where you want to stay.  If you transfer points in from another member, those points will hold their original use year month and resort priority.  You would need find a member who has a July use Year Aulani membership in order to book the points at the 11 month mark.

DVC has done quite a bit to make it hard/undesirable for members to transfer points to each other.  Additionally, and I know that many people break this rule, compensation is not allowed for transfer of points.

If you buy a 100 point contract and want to travel in June 2013, you would be able to use a total of 300 of your own points.  You can bank 2012 to the 2013 year and borrow from 2014 and get your reservation.  If you wanted to go again in June 2015, you would only have 200 points available.  You couldn't bank the 2014 points because you have already used them.  You will have your 2015 and 2016 points to work with.  

If that doesn't answer your questions, please let me know.


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## SueDonJ

GregT said:


> I agree -- this is how I feel about Maui Ocean Club -- even though I paid a pretty penny for it, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again -- Direct purchase and all.  I love that property and the memories and connection is very powerful.
> 
> JimF on the Marriott board teases me that I need to put the spreadsheets away and just focus on the vacations, but there is something oddly therapeutic for me in playing with these things like I do.
> 
> These timeshares have been wonderful for me and for my family, and I look forward to many many more happy memories in them.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Greg



I agree with those who say that it's not always about the money or that the experience is sometimes worth more than the money, and that we should put the spreadsheets away and enjoy what we've bought no matter how we bought it.  But I also agree with you that there's a certain fascination to the spreadsheets.

In my case I don't regret at all my Marriott developer purchases because for one thing what I bought wasn't available at the time as less-expensive external resales.  For another I make pretty good use of the expanded Marriott portfolio for all sorts of stays, and take full advantage of the Marriott Rewards tie-ins to the timeshares.  So now that they've proven a willingness to treat direct purchases differently than external with more than just the Marriott Rewards program, I'm glad for whatever protection I'll have going forward.  (Understanding, of course, that DC Points purchasers will have the most protection and I'm not one of those.)

But if I was looking for a non-Marriott timeshare like DVC, I wouldn't purchase with  anything in mind but being able to make a home resort reservation during certain periods in certain units.  An external resale would suit my purpose there perfectly, because I wouldn't be looking for any other usage to be protected.  Instead of worrying about whether or not my DVC contract would be able to give me more than that certain home resort usage now and in the future, I'd only have to worry about hedging my contract with a few extra points to combat any re-allocations.

I haven't researched any other timeshare systems but can't imagine that I'll ever want one to replace what I get from Marriott.  If ever I am that disillusioned with Marriott, that's when I'll get out in whatever way possible and just put my vacation budget towards single-use rentals.


----------



## rhonda

GregT said:


> Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary?  Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.


The general rule of thumb is to buy a use year that is slightly earlier than your normal travel pattern allowing your travel to fall earlier in the use year rather than later. The reasoning relates to how possible cancellations affect your ability to bank points from the canceled reservation.  If you cancel a reservation that falls after your banking window you must use the points prior to the end of that UY.

If you expect June travel, look for an April or June UY.  The earlier recommendation for a July (not offered) or August UY is not, in my understanding, the better direction.

Edited to add: your UY has no bearing on when you may book your reservations.  The booking windows remain 11 months for home resort and 7 months for the other DVC resorts.


----------



## glypnirsgirl

rhonda said:


> The general rule of thumb is to buy a use year that is slightly earlier than your normal travel pattern allowing your travel to fall earlier in the use year rather than later. The reasoning relates to how possible cancellations affect your ability to bank points from the canceled reservation.  If you cancel a reservation that falls after your banking window you must use the points prior to the end of that UY.
> 
> If you expect June travel, look for an April or June UY.  The earlier recommendation for a July (not offered) or August UY is not, in my understanding, the better direction.
> 
> Edited to add: *your UY has no bearing on when you may book your reservations*.  The booking windows remain 11 months for home resort and 7 months for the other DVC resorts.



For the first few years of my DVC ownership, I thought that I had to wait until my points were awarded to make my reservations. I thought WRONG and the above edited explanation is correct. You make your reservations 11 months before the start date of your reservation. You do not wait until the points are deposited in your account.


----------



## slum808

The multiple use year thing does make DVC complicated for transfers, but it addes a lot of flexibility as well. Because Marriott uses a calandar year year there are some owners offing point transfers for 2011 at deeply discounted rates. The problem is I can take advantage of this because there is no availability on short notice. 

The multiple use years of DVC let me take advantage of someone elses expiring points. I had already booked a stay at aulani for December on my VGC points. In October I was able to get a point transfer from an SSR owner who had points expiring in January. All I had to do was call member services and swap out my points with the newly transfered points. This let me bank my VGC points I would have used.

Its been a while since I've logged into my account but I think points are already loaded for 2013. I could do Greg's point transfer into my accound today and assuming Party "B" is using 2013 points, it would count against my 2013 transfer. This I just found out recently. I had thought for a long time you had to wait until your use year to do the transfer.


----------



## slum808

presley said:


> If you want to go in June, your best use year month will be July, if you buy where you want to stay.  If you transfer points in from another member, those points will hold their original use year month and resort priority.  *You would need find a member who has a July use Year Aulani membership in order to book the points at the 11 month mark.*




It wouldn't need to be the same UY but it would need to an Aulani owner. I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a transfer from someone with Aulani points. Most point transfers offered are for SSR with the remaining for east cost properties. I think in the last 6 months I've only see maybe two VGC point rentals and one Aulani rental. 

Greg I think if you really want the 11 month booking you need to consider buying a 150-200 point contract and banking and borrowing. Disney's advertised minimum contract for new owners is currently 160 points, although I've seen post from people who have been offered contracts as low as 100.


----------



## GregT

All,

Thanks for the good comments, I appreciate the insight and assistance.  I should be clear that I definitely lean towards a resale at one of the Florida properties, to keep acquisition cost and MFs as modest as possible.

So, let me try the following hypothetical, assuming I want to go to Aulani in June 2015.   Assume I've bought 100 SSR points resale, and that I want to book a 2BR OV (490 points) at 7 months prior to check-in.

I believe the following would work, and appreciate corrections:

1) My 100 point SSR has a June anniversary
2) I want to visit Aulani June 13-June 20, 2015 (or thereabouts, to match my week 25 MOC)
3) My 2014 Usage Year points are banked into 2015
4) My 2015 Usage Year points load 6/1/2015.  I clearly have 200 SSR points available
5) I could borrow my 2016 points, but I don't because I'll need them for something else

*So, how do I come up with the 290 points that I am short?*   Besides just writing a check for $2,900 and renting them.

1) I offer a prime summer week in a 3BR at Worldmark in Maui for 160 Points (or 10 nights in a 2BR for 200 -- you get the idea). 
2) If a DVC owner accepts, they transfer me 160 Points
3) Assume they transfer me 2014 Usage Year Points, the points must be no earlier than July anniverary so I can bank them into 2015 (and use them in June 2015)
4) This first trade should occur in March 2014, so it is still in my 2013 Usage Year and counts as my one permitted 2013 transfer
5) I find someone else who wants the same or similar trade, to close the needed points 
6) This second trade must occur after June 2014, so it is the one permitted transfer for the subsequent Usage Year (2014 Usage Year)
7) I now have more than the 490 needed DVC points, and can book the reservation I want in November 2014 when the 7 month reservation window opens.   And I used my Worldmark MF basis (approx $1,700) to access the Aulani property.

This is the point where JimF would tell me to step away from the spreadsheet.   But, as long as I've been careful with the Usage Years, and making sure they can be banked into 2015, I think I'm good.

I believe this will work, and would appreciate confirmation?

The flaws here, as I see them, are that many DVC owners probably want Maui Ocean Club instead of Worldmark, which is as equally expensive to access as Aulani, and I would be reluctant to use such an enormous quantity of Marriott points.  I'm trading longer access to Maui in a B-quality property for shorter access to Aulani, an A-quality property, and trading MOC damages that thesis.  Another motivation for me here (besides access to Aulani) is preserving the incredibly valuable Marriott DC points for other usage (most likely rental to cover my MFs).

It appears complicated, but it doesn't feel any more complicated to me than the transactions I've already done -- as long as there is a motivated person on the other end, it's come together nicely.

It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I won't set foot on Aulani until 2013 (thanks again Steve!) and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.

Please advise on the above and thanks!


----------



## heathpack

Honestly, Greg, I think you are way overestimating how readily available these trades will be.

When I first bought my Hyatt, I encountered a HGVC owner open to trades.  I had the impression that I would easily find 20 such individuals.  Nay, that is not the case.

You may have good luck trading your Maui Marriott- everyone knows Maui, most people want to go there once, Marriott is a well-know brand, RCI is not strong in Maui.  I speculate anything less will be way harder.

I have repeatedly offered Hyatt units up for trade, always an excellent deal for a DVC owner (ie I will give a holiday week but accept a low-season DVC or I will give 7 days in a Hyatt but only ask 5 Sun-Thurs DVC days).  In 3 years of doing this, I've only had 1 successful exchange but much, much time has been spent.

For you the scenario get much harder- I am frequently looking for 70-120 point stays, and the chances of a DVC owner having that to spare are way greater.  You propose looking for huge point allotments on a regular basis.  You need to find willing owners who *also* have enough points *and* have them on the timeframe you need *and* don't think you're a scam artist when you mention world mark *and* who are interested in going to Maui.  

If you want to go to DVC annually or EOY, the rule of thumb has always been "buy Disney," and I would have to say that I think that truism holds here.  The problem is that Aulani is prohibitively expensive when you run the numbers for the kind of points you are talking.  I would suggest that if you love Aulani as much as you expect to that you look to buying a large cheap resale points contract somewhere other than Aulani and take your chances at the 7-month mark.  Plan on buying half the points you need and going EOY.  On such a large number of points, you will have to run the numbers as to which property makes the most sense when you balance MF and initial purchase cost.

I don't want to discourage from trying your private exchange plan, however- if you can figure out how to reliably crack the nut that is the typical DVC owner, I'd LOVE to learn how to do it.  I just think it will be exponentially harder than you are envisioning.

H 



GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Thanks for the good comments, I appreciate the insight and assistance.  I should be clear that I definitely lean towards a resale at one of the Florida properties, to keep acquisition cost and MFs as modest as possible.
> 
> So, let me try the following hypothetical, assuming I want to go to Aulani in June 2015.   Assume I've bought 100 SSR points resale, and that I want to book a 2BR OV (490 points) at 7 months prior to check-in.
> 
> I believe the following would work, and appreciate corrections:
> 
> 1) My 100 point SSR has a June anniversary
> 2) I want to visit Aulani June 15-June 22 (or thereabouts, to match my week 25 MOC)
> 3) My 2014 Usage Year points are banked into 2015
> 4) My 2015 Usage Year points load 6/1/2015.  I clearly have 200 SSR points available
> 5) I could borrow my 2016 points, but I don't because I'll need them for something else
> 
> *So, how do I come up with the 290 points that I am short?*   Besides just writing a check for $2,900 and renting them.
> 
> 1) I offer a prime summer week in a 3BR at Worldmark in Maui for 153 Points
> 2) If a DVC owner accepts, they transfer me 153 Points -- assume they transfer me 2014 Usage Year Points, they must be no earlier than July anniverary to I can bank them into 2015
> 3) This first trade occurs in March 2014, so it is in still in my 2013 Usage Year, and counts as my 2013 transfer
> 4) I find someone else who wants the same trade
> 5) This second trade must occur after June 2014, so it is for the transfer for the subsequent Usage Year (2014 Usage Year)
> 6) I now have 506 DVC points, and can book the reservation I want in November 2014 when the 7 month check-in occurs.   And I used my Worldmark MF basis to access the Aulani property.
> 
> This is the point where JimF would tell me to step away from the spreadsheet.   But, as long as I've been careful with the Usage Years, and making sure they can be banked into 2015, I think I'm good.
> 
> I believe this will work, and would appreciate confirmation?
> 
> The flaws here, as I see them, are that many DVC owners probably want Maui Ocean Club instead of Worldmark, which is as equally expensive to access as Aulani, and I would be reluctant to use some an enormous quantity of Marriott points.  It appears complicated, but it doesn't feel any more complicated to me than the transactions I've already done -- as long as there is a motivated person on the other end, it's come together nicely.
> 
> It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I've not yet set foot on Aulani and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.
> 
> Please advise on the above and thanks!


----------



## rhonda

GregT said:


> It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I won't set foot on Aulani until 2013 (thanks again Steve!) and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.


I _think_ it is safe to say, "You'll like it!"  We spend 8 nights in an Ocean View 1BR in Sept (on our SSR points) and really loved it.  

Trying to negotiate direct trades with DVC owners is really tricky.  Compared to the general timeshare market, DVC buyers generally purchased their points to _use_ at DVC properties and aren't often inclined to trade out.  

I tried for a few years to offer a 2BR Worldmark high-season week (~10k WM) for a 1BR BWV lowest-season week (~200 DVC) as direct exchange.  I posted on "all the right boards" at the time and never received a single nibble.  Fortunately, we were able to secure the trades I needed through either II or RCI for most years.

If you plan to visit Aulani every-other-year at 490 points ... considering buying 250 DVC points.


----------



## Twinkstarr

I'm probably not a "typical" DVC owner. The majority of our stays include both Fri-Sat nights, so that tends to eat up the points. And we usually go for 4-6 nights. I have enough points to cover our trips. 

I think the flexiblility of DVC also works against doing private trades, If I skip a trip I can bank points. If I have extra points I'll just go for a bigger unit(Grand Villa in my case, which I prefer if I'm staying longer than a few nights) or work in a couple of extra days. Plus a lot of DVC owners are always borrowing points so they don't have any available to trade. 

I tried to work out private trades with my DVC points, but it usually would require me to back off on a trip and I get out voted by the guys. If we are doing WDW they would prefer to stay on site.  

The DVC annual pass discount works into this also got to squeeze out as many trips as possible.

 Plus the general "I'm going to get hosed" feeling that's on the DIS boards. I tried to work a transfer deal there, me transfering my DVC points to another owner. Wanted me to email my deed so she could see that I was a real owner.


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## SueDonJ

Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members.  Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality.  That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."

It's difficult enough to learn the intricacies of the timeshare system you own; if you're going to exchange with an owner of something else then you really should have a good understanding of that something else.  Greg, you know a whole lot of systems inside out!  How much time are you willing to devote to teaching others about what you have, so that you can exchange it with them?  Especially if they already have an irrational bias against timeshares?

I think Marriott's new point system and DVC have a whole lot in common despite Marriott not having a home resort preference: usage flexibility as far as resorts/unit sizes/lengths of stay, reservation windows based on ownership, Use Years (calendar year for enrolled/converted Weeks, 12-month period based on purchase date for Trust Members,) banking and borrowing allowances and deadlines, vague "commercial activity" renting restrictions, etc...  So for example, I'd be pretty comfortable doing a private exchange with a DVC owner.  But admittedly, when you all get to talking about WorldMark or other systems that I don't know, it seems like it would be easier for me to just limit my field of possibility to what I do know.

Lots of words to say what most of you are saying already - Greg, I agree that the more convoluted your exchange scenarios get, the more you're limiting your possibilities in what is a small world to begin with (the pool of DVC owners open to the possibility of timeshare exchanges outside of DVC.)  Knowing you from TUG, though, I'd work with you and probably trust you more than some stranger to give me good value for what I own.  Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too!


----------



## rhonda

SueDonJ said:


> Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members.  Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality.  That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."


No kidding! ITA


----------



## presley

The private party trading is very difficult.  It works nicely when you feel like you already "know" someone because of the forums.  I don't think it will be safe to plan on having regular good trades.  I hope that will change, but I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## Twinkstarr

QUOTE=SueDonJ;1195044] Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too!  [/QUOTE]

I've been a DISboard member since 2006, with probably as many posts as I have here on TUG(6000+) and there is a bit of of caution by some DVC'ers. 

When my one DVC friend started renting she asked if I would be a reference. Don't ask how many PM's I got on that. And she's been a DIS'er longer than me!


----------



## heathpack

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore.  They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there.  If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.

H


----------



## presley

Twinkstarr said:


> QUOTE=SueDonJ;1195044] Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too!
> 
> I've been a DISboard member since 2006, with probably as many posts as I have here on TUG(6000+) and there is a bit of of caution by some DVC'ers.
> 
> When my one DVC friend started renting she asked if I would be a reference. Don't ask how many PM's I got on that. And she's been a DIS'er longer than me!





heathpack said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore.  They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there.  If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.
> 
> H



I pretty much gave up trading/renting on that site when they removed a thread I made about wanting to learn about the rent/trade process.  I found Mouseowners shortly afterward.  I prefer Mouseowners because it is a smaller group and it feels like people really want to help each other out.


----------



## Twinkstarr

heathpack said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore.  They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there.  If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.
> 
> H



They've changed the rules on the Rent/Trade board so often  in the last year or 2, I've lost track of what they are.


----------



## tomandrobin

Twinkstarr said:


> They've changed the rules on the Rent/Trade board so often  in the last year or 2, I've lost track of what they are.



If you post your R/T ad wrong, you'll find out very quickly what the rules are.......:deadhorse:


----------



## tomandrobin

presley said:


> The private party trading is very difficult.  It works nicely when you feel like you already "know" someone because of the forums.  I don't think it will be safe to plan on having regular good trades.  I hope that will change, but I wouldn't count on it.



Depends on what you are trading and what forum you are posting your trade. 

The various Disney/DVC forums are very difficult to trade/exchange. At least in my experience. First and foremost, the average DVC owner has more passion to their ownership then most, again....that's just my opinion.


----------



## Twinkstarr

tomandrobin said:


> If you post your R/T ad wrong, you'll find out very quickly what the rules are.......:deadhorse:



:hysterical: and you get an extra whack if you are "sarcastic" in your reply to the dreaded PM from a moderator.


----------



## GregT

All,

I came across this on YouTube while looking for videos of Aulani property and rooms.   This is the 3BR Grand Villa model (which looks pretty sweet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra6Fby8GRJo

A couple of general comments:

1) Very consistent feel with the 3BR at Maui Ocean Club
2) Spectacular view from this unit (but is the sunset from this building blocked by JW Marriott?) 
3) My MOC unit doesn't have a bidet 
4) Aulani Grand Villa has an extra 400 sq ft versus MOC (but I'm not sure where it went because the living/dining area seems a tiny bit smaller??)
5) The overhead shower heads are very cool, we don't have those either

Looks like a beautiful room and property, I'll see if I can find a video of just a simple 2BR.

Best,

Greg


----------



## rhonda

I didn't watch the video ... but

2) Yes, our view of the sunset was certainly blocked by the JW Marriott. 
3) The Toto Washlet is only found in the master bath of Grand Villa Units.
4) The GV unit we toured had a strange, unused hallway leading to a 2nd exit.  When we asked, 'Why?' the reply ran along lines re: firecode demands so many exits per occupants.  The guide recommended using the strange space for storing luggage.  It likely wasn't 400 sq ft -- but it was a huge waste of space.
5) The dual head shower in our 1BR was very nice!


----------



## SueDonJ

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I came across this on YouTube while looking for videos of Aulani property and rooms.   This is the 3BR Grand Villa model (which looks pretty sweet).
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra6Fby8GRJo
> 
> A couple of general comments:
> 
> 1) Very consistent feel with the 3BR at Maui Ocean Club
> 2) Spectacular view from this unit (but is the sunset from this building blocked by JW Marriott?)
> 3) My MOC unit doesn't have a bidet
> 4) Aulani Grand Villa has an extra 400 sq ft versus MOC (but I'm not sure where it went because the living/dining area seems a tiny bit smaller??)
> 5) The overhead shower heads are very cool, we don't have those either
> 
> Looks like a beautiful room and proeprty, I'll see if I can find a video of just a simple 2BR.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



It does look beautiful but man alive - look at how much it costs!  3BR Point requirements for a week range from 665 for a Standard View in the lowest season to 1,288 for an Ocean View during holidays.  Dues on those points range from $3.89 at Bay Lake Tower to $6.77 at Vero Beach.

The 3BR Ocean View for a week in June will cost you 938 points.  Cheapest dues on that would be $3,648.82, most expensive would be $6,350.26.  If you want the home resort advantage at Aulani it would be $5,374.74.  Wow!  That's without any buy-in costs.


----------



## slum808

SueDonJ said:


> It does look beautiful but man alive - look at how much it costs!  3BR Point requirements for a week range from 665 for a Standard View in the lowest season to 1,288 for an Ocean View during holidays.  Dues on those points range from $3.89 at Bay Lake Tower to $6.77 at Vero Beach.
> 
> The 3BR Ocean View for a week in June will cost you 938 points.  Cheapest dues on that would be $3,648.82, most expensive would be $6,350.26.  If you want the home resort advantage at Aulani it would be $5,374.74.  Wow!  That's without any buy-in costs.



One of the users on another site who routinely reviews new deeds, commented on a huge point purchase made before the MF fiasco. He finally worked it that it was enough points for the OV GV during a holiday week + the 10% premium for a fixed week. Even with the old MF cost that a hell of a purchase. $140k + $5500 MF ouch!


----------



## GregT

All,

I just got the call from Disney's Tele-Sales department communicating that they've gotten approval now to sell in California.

He confirmed that the $5.73/point MF does not have any developer subsidy in it.

Current pricing (as has already been noted elsewhere) is $112/point for 160 points and $104/point for 220 points.  Minimum purchase is 100 points for $120/point.

Best,

Greg


----------



## presley

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I just got the call from Disney's Tele-Sales department communicating that they've gotten approval now to sell in California.
> 
> He confirmed that the $5.73/point MF does not have any developer subsidy in it.
> 
> Current pricing (as has already been noted elsewhere) is $112/point for 160 points and $104/point for 220 points.  Minimum purchase is 100 points for $120/point.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg




That is good news.  I just went to look at the price of a 70 point resale contract that was online a few days ago.  It is no longer listed.  It was at the old MF rate and for sure less than the above pricing.  

I think the seller wanted to return the contract to Disney, so that is probably why it is gone.  Disney has offered to buy back all the old contracts.  Oh, well.


----------



## GregT

presley said:


> That is good news.  I just went to look at the price of a 70 point resale contract that was online a few days ago.  It is no longer listed.  It was at the old MF rate and for sure less than the above pricing.
> 
> I think the seller wanted to return the contract to Disney, so that is probably why it is gone.  Disney has offered to buy back all the old contracts.  Oh, well.



Drat -- if I could find one of the contracts at the old MF rate, I might buy it.  Please let me know if you see one.

Thanks!


----------



## slum808

Its been reported that Disney is offering a full refund including any interest paid on the loan. I doubt we'll be seeing any low mf contracts come up untill this offer ends. Even then there's a high possiblity that Disney will ROFR these contracts to get rid of the subsidy. 



GregT said:


> Drat -- if I could find one of the contracts at the old MF rate, I might buy it.  Please let me know if you see one.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## GregT

slum808 said:


> Its been reported that Disney is offering a full refund including any interest paid on the loan. I doubt we'll be seeing any low mf contracts come up untill this offer ends. Even then there's a high possiblity that Disney will ROFR these contracts to get rid of the subsidy.



This would certainly be my expectation -- that Disney would offer a full refund, and any private transaction would get ROFR'd...

But still fun to look for!

Best,

Greg


----------



## marmite

SueDonJ said:


> Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members.  Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality.  That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."



Maybe some do, but for me, I will likely never trade my DVC because it is really poor value for me -- I could rent my points for much more, and then rent a timeshare week (on ebay or the board at TUG), and have a bucket of money left over (almost joking!).

Even when I go to book a full week at a DVC resort, it takes a lot of points, which equate to a lot of money with the maintenance fees per point (not even considering the initial investment).  The difference between me trying to book a week during the low season vs. high is huge, so if I was trying to do a trade I think it would be tough.  Dollar for dollar, it might be 'fair' to trade a few days at DVC for a full timeshare week elsewhere.  I don't know how many people would want to do that.

But as for Aulani, I am saving my points for a trip there.  Yesterday I booked a few days at DVC Beach Club Villas and was talking to the agent about the availability of Aulani at the 7 month window (for people who own DVC but not Aulani).  He said it was quite easy to get at 7 months, ESPECIALLY oceanview.  The standard view (the cheapest rooms) go first.

If I love Aulani, I would be tempted to get a cheap contract at any DVC, and use it for Aulani. I don't see the need to own there at all, and couldn't imagine how the 'numbers' could ever work out.

Cheers.


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## ocdb8r

We were at Ko Olina last month and made it over to Aulani for the tour.  While it's definitely a nice resort, I wasn't blown away.  To me it fit the bill of many of the other DVC resorts (and with all the talk, I think I was expecting much more).  They have created beautiful common areas (reminded me of Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom and the Grand Californian with big open spaces and enormous lobbies...and very rich appointments and attention to detail), but as with most DVC resorts, the units are appointed with very straight-forward amenities and furnishings (nothing overly luxurious).  The pool area and slides are nice, but not as dramatic as they seemed in the artist renderings.  I thought the artificial reef was a letdown given its size (and the additional cost to use it).  I did appreciate all the little extra activities they have on offer, especially the attention to Hawaii and it's history.

However, I left wondering if anything on offer was worth the premium Disney is commanding.  There are quite a few very nice alternatives in Hawaii and I just couldn't see any justification for the ownership and maintenance fee cost for Aulani.  I know this is often a debate with Disney, but given we're not talking about a resort where they offer the unique benefit of being on-site with the parks, I wonder if the little extras will be enough to make Aulani more of a success than Vero Beach and Hilton Head.


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## slum808

ocdb8r said:


> However, I left wondering if anything on offer was worth the premium Disney is commanding.  There are quite a few very nice alternatives in Hawaii and I just couldn't see any justification for the ownership and maintenance fee cost for Aulani.



While Aulani itself may not offer enough value for the price Disney is asking, it certainly upgrades the “Club”. Many existing owners are excited to go, and for new owners like myself, it finally tipped the scales in favor of buying in. I purchased VGC because I wanted the home resort priority, but the abilty to use my points at Aulani played a big factor in our purchase. 

	While Aulani will help Disney sell other properties, the problem of selling Aulani remains. I think Disney missed the boat by not developing a second Disneyland property at the same time. There are a lot of east cost DVC owners who want to stay at VGC on the way over to Aulani. The problem is getting into VGC at the 7 month window is spotty at best. I think in some ways, the new trust point system that Marriott has could have worked for Disney. If they combined ownership in Aulani with the new DL property, they could have spread the Aulani’s cost into the trust.  If they had a three resort package with Aulani, DL, and a ski area, I would consider paying retail for that. I think it would be very attractive to west cost or Asia rim customers.


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## Culli

SueDonJ said:


> Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members.  Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality.  That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."



I'm similar to Tink, own DVC among other TS units.  Keep in mind most people on the DISBOARDs are on the DVC site as Disney owners not necesarrily TS owners.  Yes technically the same thing but they bought as the whole "Disney" thing and making their trips to DIsney, not as timeshare owners.  You should see the wars that start when people ask about trading and the general response is don't buy DVC to trade it is too expensive.  If you buy DVC buy it to stay at WDW/WDL oh my you wouldn't believe how little a majority of the DVC disboards know anything about timeshares.  On the flip side TUG is all about timeshares and how to use them, max your value etc.  A majority of post on DVC dis is pretty much Disney only related.

Most TS owners don't know anything about timeshares, and DVC is no different.  I would guess a vast majority of people on TUG are pretty savy timeshare owners.........the exact opposite is true for the disboards.  The DVC owners that understand TS are usually found here on this site.


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## mj2vacation

How much would it cost to rent the villa for cash?


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## Twinkstarr

Culli said:


> I'm similar to Tink, own DVC among other TS units.  Keep in mind most people on the DISBOARDs are on the DVC site as Disney owners not necesarrily TS owners.  Yes technically the same thing but they bought as the whole "Disney" thing and making their trips to DIsney, not as timeshare owners.  You should see the wars that start when people ask about trading and the general response is don't buy DVC to trade it is too expensive.  If you buy DVC buy it to stay at WDW/WDL oh my you wouldn't believe how little a majority of the DVC disboards know anything about timeshares.  On the flip side TUG is all about timeshares and how to use them, max your value etc.  A majority of post on DVC dis is pretty much Disney only related.
> 
> Most TS owners don't know anything about timeshares, and DVC is no different.  I would guess a vast majority of people on TUG are pretty savy timeshare owners.........the exact opposite is true for the disboards.  The DVC owners that understand TS are usually found here on this site.



So true, though I think we are seeing more questions about RCI-trading than usual. Seems like everytime I look at the DISboards there is at least one current thread about trading.

 Tim from DVC News has brought up that a lot of people have banked points they need to use and perhaps that has something to do with it. I was just down this past weekend and all 36 GV's at SSR were full, which I have never seen even Thanksgiving week.


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## MichaelColey

mj2vacation said:


> How much would it cost to rent the villa for cash?


I don't think Disney gives the ability to see VGC rental rates online, but I would expect Disney to rent them for about $500/night for a Studio, $750/night for a 1BR, $1000/night for a 2BR and $2000/night for a 3BR.  I could be off on that and I'm sure it varies depending on the time of year, but it's probably fairly close.

If you can rent from an owner, I would expect the rate to be about $12/point, so (for a fairly average season): about $350/night for a Studio, about $600/night for a 1BR, about $750/night for a 2BR and about $1600/night for a 3BR.

I wouldn't expect availability to be very good either direct from Disney or through an owner.


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## glypnirsgirl

I looked up a 2BR and they are renting for $875 per night - island view. 

I could not get a price on the 3BR because I could not find any available.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

*Price increase*

I just got an email saying that Aulani is going to $135 per point effective December 6th. Do you think this is to create a sense of urgency?

elaine


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## bnoble

I suspect it is a reflection that sales are going well.


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