# Shocked by the state of Timesharing



## Dani (Sep 1, 2016)

Just got back into Timesharing after about a 8 year absence. Started backing off almost 10 years ago. Had a baby that's now a toddler so just got back into it as I have fond memories of Timesharing. I'm shocked... Stunned actually to see so many people simply giving away their weeks!! What is going on? I understand the resorts with astronomical MF's, but even those with decent fees are being given away. Have people not recovered from the economic downturn in 2008? Kids grown? Just trying to get some understanding and wondering if people even buy timeshares today directly from resorts.


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## Big Matt (Sep 1, 2016)

I think the beginning of your post sums it up for me.  People's preferences change over time.  You got out of timesharing for years.  People may love doing it when kids are young, kids are gone, etc.  It's all preference.  Timeshares never end and the maintenance fees keep coming whether you want to use the week or not.  That's why Marriott and others are going to points and II/RCI are offering more that you can trade for.  They are trying to keep people interested.

I for one get great value out of mine.


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## ronparise (Sep 1, 2016)

There are two sides to every transaction. The buyer side and the seller side. These sales are not giveaways. They are sales where a buyer and seller came together at a price that they are both happy with. 

The discussion I think needs to look at the motivations of both sides. Buyers I think are paying what the timeshare is worth

And nobody that spends any time on tug buys from the developer. About 60% of Developer prices goes to marketing and another 25% is profit and only 15% is the real value of the timeshare.  The really cool thing about timeshares is that there is no depreciation the product is the same product whether sold new or "used". As a long time tug poster has said many times "there is no such thing as a used timeshare.  So a starting point for any negotiations has to be that 15% number

Then as a buyer I look at maintenance fees and compare them to comparable rentals.  What has changes since you were last involved with timeshares is the robust vacation rental market place (Airbnb, vrbo, Craig's list, red week etc) where individuals are renting thei homes and condos and timeshares. even the major timeshare developers are renting their product to the public (Expedia, etc). So there are now a lot of comparables 

If I see comparable rentals offered for less than maintenance fees for timeshares I'm considering. Those time shares are worthless   And if I see maintenance fees are less than comparable rentals then those timeshares do have value but never more than that 15% number

Apparently the "giveaways" you see have maintenance fees that are more than comparable rentals

I haven't touched on the fact that many today's vacationers don't want a lifelong commitment to the same place every year for the rest of their lives. Much less  a commitment to a lifetime of maintenance fees


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 1, 2016)

I just got into timsharing just a few years ago and thanks to Tug I bought all of mine thru resale. My kids are young adults and almost done with college. My goal is to be able to vacation in nice locations, stay in a condo and pay less then rack rates.  Thus far I've been able to do that.  

I will probably go down to just one timeshare once I retire. So that my costs are in line with my lowere income.  In the meantime I will enjoy and receive great value from my timeshares.


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## bogey21 (Sep 1, 2016)

ronparise said:


> If I see comparable rentals offered for less than maintenance fees for timeshares I'm considering, those time shares are worthless......
> 
> Many today's vacationers don't want a lifelong commitment to the same place every year for the rest of their lives. Much less  a commitment to a lifetime of maintenance fees



Agree.  It is a combination of rental alternatives and the lifetime commitment.  

During the period I was committed to TimeSharing I owned six. All were low MF Fixed Week/Fixed Units, all purchased resale for less than $1,000.  In my case certainty of location and unit within the Resort were paramount.  Secondary was knowing that my maximum loss when divesting was reasonable even if it meant giving away the Weeks.

George


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## "Roger" (Sep 1, 2016)

First of all, welcome back Dani. Musings on your question...

The simple answer is supply and demand. Start with the demand side. A little while ago, someone published the results of his professional research on the timeshare market. What was shocking was that, in this day and age, with all the info on the internet and articles published about timesharing, what a small percentage of new timeshare buyers buy resale. Put differently, new timeshare buyers are not purchasing in the resale market. So low demand for those wanting or needing to unload their units.

I suspect a number of factors are contributing to a huge glut on the supply side. Start with the people who owned multiple timeshares ten or fifteen years ago. They had to have been retired and now are getting older and can no longer travel as much. They need to slim down their portfolios. 

Secondly, there was a huge explosion of new timeshares being built back then. For some people, they find that timesharing just doesn't work out as well as they thought. Quite a few people find that they just end up not using their purchase every year (some, never). Part of the problem is that many people cannot plan a vacation a year in advance when the best units are available. Also, there are a lot of studies showing many people cannot or do not take the vacation time they are owed. So, with large sales ten to fifteen years ago, it doesn't take a huge percentage of those buyers who want to sell to create a glut.

Finally, as Ron mentioned, it is so much easier to find rentals now with the internet without the commitment of maintenance fees.

As mentioned, just my speculation.

Best wishes ...


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## elaine (Sep 1, 2016)

we had 4 TS that we used, traded every year. some were summer beach weeks for use with young kids. kids got bigger and no longer liked the beach. I got rid of 2 of them b/c I didn't want to be tied to annual fees and having to go on a "trade" vacation. Many of our destinations did not have TS, like Europe, cruises, etc.  However, when we divested, we also bought more DVC, where our teen kids still like to go, holds its value on resale market and is easily rented.
I bought one prime beach week for $8K resale in 2006 and that was a very decent price then, after much scouting around. Now, that same week can likely be had for under $2K. 

I find that my friends who can afford a week-trip don't plan in advance more than 3-4 months out (doesn't work for TS), and my other friends don't take a regular, somewhat high-end vacation. IMHO, the economy is more polarized than before. The "haves" (such as professionals, without student debt) have it and most others are pay check to pay check, even for those with decent jobs. In our area, housing, insurance, day care take a big chunk. And if there is a SAHM, then they are really tight.


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## Phydeaux (Sep 1, 2016)

Even music CD's are a has-been.

Count me as regretful that I bought in. 

Ask 100 people on the street, and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority would tell you TS's are a dinosaur, and to stay far, far away from a purchase. 

Personally speaking, when our TS went AI, and began renting out vacant units online, it now makes no sense whatsoever to buy in. Anyone can rent into the resort, pay less, no strings attached and no annual maintenance fee. Exact same perks, exact amenities. 

Add to that, peoples vacation preferences change over time. Ours certainly did. We now prefer small, beachside condos instead of a resort of any size. 

I'll continue to rent out our villa every year, and take those $'s and rent a condo on the beach. When it's no longer a break-even transaction, I'll dump the TS.


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## DaveNV (Sep 1, 2016)

My sense of things:  

Timesharing, in the traditional sense of the term, has changed a lot in the last ten years.  Back then, you bought a week, and either used the week at your home resort, exchanged it for something (often amazing) elsewhere, or rented it out.  A week was a week, and it was worth what it was worth.

Several years ago RCI changed out the exchange process, and went to their TPU system. When you deposit a week now, you get their nebulous TPU value for your deposit. You can use those TPU to choose something else in exchange, but the values are lopsided - you can't even trade back into your home resort, because RCI wants more TPUs to trade in than they gave you for trading out.  Those who own Points have a bit of an easier time, but they have the dilemma of deciding where they want to go, how many of their points they can spend, and deciding whether they need to borrow or rent points from elsewhere to make up the difference.  It's not a one-for-one thing anymore.

Since RCI (and others) are now in the business of renting timeshares, there is a sense that depositors are being cheated out of the value of what they bought into.  You most often can't exchange for that certain place you want to go, but RCI has multiple weeks available there for rent.  Suspicious?  It sure is to me, no matter how they try to slice it and explain it away.

If you want quality, you can't just pick from the available inventory anymore - that's all the leftovers.  To get a decent exchange now, you have to put in Ongoing Searches well in advance, and hope something turns up that matches what you want.  Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't.  I wasted over a year waiting for an OGS to match, only to learn from Tuggers that that resort almost NEVER comes up for exchange, despite RCI assuring me numerous times that my exchange will be an easy thing to match, if I just wait long enough.  It was a sobering lesson.

There are plenty of other reasons, too, but in my mind, the heart of timeshare exchanging has kind of died off. It used to be exciting and fun.  Now it's tedious and a PITA to find something you can accept as a fair exchange for what you own.  

Not bitter, just disappointed that so much has changed, and not necessarily in a good way.  I've had some awesome exchanges, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the beachfront resort I own in Hawaii.  (I have also never exchanged that - I stay in it every time my week comes along.) The rest of the resale purchases I've made have been passed along (for free) to new owners.  After my next trip to my home resort, I'm passing along that one, too.  As others have mentioned, I can rent what and where I want now, more easily than I can exchange in, and without the ongoing commitment.  I may spend a bit more cash to rent, but it's worth it to have the flexibility. 

Just as timesharing has changed, it's time for me to change how I use timeshares. YMMV.  

Dave


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## theo (Sep 1, 2016)

I agree wholeheartedly with all of Dave's astute and insightful views and observations above. For us, unlike in bygone "yesteryear", the RCI exchange game is simply no longer at all attractive and / or productive. To us, the "exchange game" is now just a time consuming, uncertain PITA  --- and we have chosen to just cease playing it. 

Our remaining ownerships are all fixed weeks which we and / or other family members look forward to using each year. While we have no interest in being "landlords", all of them can be easily rented out for almost twice their annual maintenance fee --- * for now*. If / when that changes, we may pare down our ownerships further.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 1, 2016)

We bought in 1999 (fixed week 30 with an attached floating week) to go where we own and we also just last year acquired a freebie (week 31) we intend to also use every year. They are in adjoining states just a 2 hour drive from each other. The drive to the week 30 one from our home is 5.5 hours and the drive from the week 31 back to our home is 5.5 hours.

Maybe having lower expectations or perceptions of what we want out of a timeshare makes us happy- I don't know.

Of course, we are still working and so timeshares are such a welcome break for us- we don't do anything extravagant. We chill out. We don't spend a lot of money. We do a bit of sightseeing. I love going into the pool. Heck- we go to the movies or a play or we hike or bike- but at least we are away and not in the day to day drudgery of the work schedule. That is what we need.  No- we are not traveling the world with them but we love our vacations just the same.

We knew from the onset, that we could TRY to exchange if we wanted and had to abide by the RCI (or other exchange company) rules and available inventory, but we never counted on it. 

We made sure airfare wasn't required to get to the timeshares. That it was a pleasant drive in states we love to visit. We use them as second homes of sorts.

We have exchanged for some great places but we have also rented other timeshares to go elsewhere.

Everyones' situation is different and circumstances change in people's lives.

Timeshares are reaching a peak from when they actually began (in the 50's or 60's?), so now people are aging out, their kids maybe can't afford to take them over, maybe the kids don't want them-doesn't suit their lifestyle or whatever. 

Some people bought timeshares and took out loans and never knew what they were buying (like off-season floating weeks) or don't know how to use the exchange system. They maybe counted on always exchanging to where and when they wanted to go.Then the economy tanked a few times. They no longer can afford them. There are a multitude of reasons.

We always take out travel insurance to cover the maintenance fees in case something happens so we will get reimbursed the maintenance fees so we don't worry about that either- in terms of HAVING to find a last minute renter or not being able to deposit for an exchange another time. We don't bother with renting our timeshares out.

We don't belong to RCI any longer and just use the independents for the few times we would like to exchange our one off season floater week. If they don't have anything available we can use- we just use the floater. 

We still love ours and we intend to keep using them just as we have. We will throw in a trip to somewhere else here and there IN ADDITION TO our home resorts.

Eventually we will probably at least dispose of one when we get a bit older and retire, unless our son s' financial circumstances change and he wants one of them.


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## elaine (Sep 1, 2016)

An addendum. Now that we have downsized to 1 summer fixed beach week, 1 EOY beach week that is strictly an RCI points trader, and DVC points, I am quite happy with timesharing. I don't get as many TPUs for the fixed week as I think I should. But, on the flip side, I traded into 2 resorts last year  that would have cost me double my annual fees to book either. I have also traded into DVC 5X, and just those trades alone have made TS "worth it" for me. We have also stayed in at least 1 TS every year for 20 years with our family to locations that we would not have gone to without the RCI book.
We debated buying a Marriott to use in semi-retirement, but I think we'll wait and see how rentals/cash stays go. The flexibility and no strings attached is more appealing now.


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## klpca (Sep 1, 2016)

I'm a new generation timesharer. We bought during the recession - at ridiculous prices. I only paid "real money" for two timeshares, and even then it wasn't much. I've given some of those freebies away, and found a few more bargains along the way. I'm still a happy camper but it's probably because I was able to get some wonderful properties for almost free (week 32 at Carlsbad Seapointe comes to mind), others have been wonderful traders in RCI under the new TPU era, and my Interval units with preference make trading a positive experience there. I probably still own too many and will need to continue downsizing as we go into retirement. I have found the most value in the two that we own that are located near our home because we use the day use regularly.

The really good weeks are no longer free, but they don't cost that much. I still believe in the concept of timesharing. I can't imagine going back to hotel rooms, and one of the motivating factors for getting into timesharing was some unpleasant VRBO/AirBnb experiences (house not cleaned upon arrival, drug paraphernalia in the bedrooms, illegal vacation rental. Lots of stinkeye from neighbors). The advice given on TUG to buy where you want to go is really, really important. If you want to go to the beach in the summer, you need to own there unless you have nerves of steel or can travel at the last minute. People don't deposit those weeks very often (although I sometimes do because RCI gives us a boatload of TPU's for that week).

I can see how timesharing has a shelf life for people, and I see that reflected in the others comments. I'm sure that I will get there at some point, but I'm not there yet. I'm still having a lot of fun.


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## Panina (Sep 1, 2016)

Timesharing has changed but I look at it in a positive way. 

I have acquired most of my weeks for free and a couple I have spent a few thousand by just waiting until I found the needle in the haystack as those I knew I would hardly ever trade.

My Maintenance fees are much lower then if I had to rent.  

When not using these weeks, being they are prime time,  prime location, they trade very well.   For example I have been able to trade easily into winter weeks in the keys and southwest Florida, or cape cod in the summer.  Even with increased trading fees, trading is a bargain. 

Being I have multiple weeks I belong to both II and Rci.   I have figured out which company gives me the best value for each week I own when I trade.

I've owned timeshares for 30 years, since my 20's and have never regretted it.  I have and still do , travel to places I could not have afforded if it wasn't for having timeshares.   As my brother in law has said, people would think you are rich based on how and where your travel, but I'm not.

Do your homework and you can get tremendous value from timesharing.  

There is simply no secret, just get prime weeks, in prime location, that you feel you will use most of the time.  They are out there, many for free.  Be patient and wait for the prime weeks.  When you don't use them, they will trade easily and well.  

I have always gotten what I have requested into prime locations and in prime time.


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## csxjohn (Sep 1, 2016)

This state of timesharing, units being given away, has been going on for over 15 years, it is not new.  It may just be that you were not aware of the state of the resale market.


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## Carol C (Sep 1, 2016)

*Dani!!! Welcome back!*



Dani said:


> Just got back into Timesharing after about a 8 year absence. Started backing off almost 10 years ago. Had a baby that's now a toddler so just got back into it as I have fond memories of Timesharing. I'm shocked... Stunned actually to see so many people simply giving away their weeks!! What is going on? I understand the resorts with astronomical MF's, but even those with decent fees are being given away. Have people not recovered from the economic downturn in 2008? Kids grown? Just trying to get some understanding and wondering if people even buy timeshares today directly from resorts.



Hi Dani! Geez I've missed ya! Hope your family is doing fine. Don't buy anything til you talk to me 'cause I'm not traveling with hubby anymore due to his Parkinsons. I go solo now and then when I can afford to get him a caregiver. But I don't need to own a timeshare anymore, really. Glad to see you back on TUG...this should be an interesting thread you just started!


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## Dani (Sep 1, 2016)

First of all.*waving* at Roger and Carol as well as everyone else that I knew from back in the day.

 Second..thank you soooo much for the wonderful replies. I've always said that I've met some of the smartest people I know on TUG and once again, I've been proven right.  I have been shocked for the past week to not only learn that I no longer know how this all works but to see some of my favorite places being sold for next to nothing. It's crazy to me. Everywhere I turn, things are just ..different.

I definitely get that travel patterns have changed and I completely forgot about the rentals. They were getting out of control even 10 years ago. AirbnB didn't exist as far as I know. That explains a lot. Also, as people get older, travel patterns change. I will say that my mother purchased her first timeshare only a few years ago and loves it. It's not fancy...but she enjoys it so I imagine I will keep time-sharing as I age too. 

 As for the new systems..I don't care for these TPU's. My San Clemente Inn week used to be able to get me into anywhere that I wanted to go. I see that this will no longer be the case. Dikhololo used to get the Manhattan Club. Foxrun was the best trader ever and a cursory search reveals that it may cease to be a timeshare. I just can't!! lol

 I miss the trade tests...we used to have FUN!!  It was exciting to try to find out which weeks traded the best. I miss Fern   we were FB friends so I know that she passed. I guess I'm feeling quite nostalgic but most of all, I want my family to use time-sharing as a means to travel as my daughter gets older.  I was really just trying to understand if time-sharing was going to go the way of the dinosaur.  

 Thanks so much for your responses.


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## Phydeaux (Sep 1, 2016)

Dani said:


> First of all.*waving* at Roger and Carol as well as everyone else that I knew from back in the day.
> 
> Second..thank you soooo much for the wonderful replies. I've always said that I've met some of the smartest people I know on TUG and once again, I've been proven right.  I have been shocked for the past week to not only learn that I no longer know how this all works but to see some of my favorite places being sold for next to nothing. It's crazy to me. Everywhere I turn, things are just ..different.
> 
> ...



I realize I'm in the minority here, but in the bigger picture as in the general public, I would say they've already decided TS's are dinosaurs. Happy to see that they seem to work so well for some.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 1, 2016)

I believe these timeshare rescue and timeshare exit companies that advertise the evil of timeshares are doing great damage to the industry.  These "service providers" are convincing people that timeshares are a huge waste of money; a lifetime commitment you cannot get rid of yourself, without their help; and a legacy your heirs don't want.

There are "law offices" calling us several times a week to help us get rid of our timeshares, too.  And of course there are upfront-fee companies who promise the moon and the stars, and both companies will take your money and run because they are just scamming timeshare owners.  

We have talked a lot about these postcard companies here on TUG, even when you were here, Danielle, so I am sure you remember the discussions way back when.

I am somewhat grateful for the low prices we have paid for some of the good ones we now own, but timeshare in itself has lost a lot of its appeal to new buyers.  I feel somewhat for the developers because they have people coming into the presentations who have heard all of the negative commercials on the radio and television.  I am sure it makes the sale more difficult.


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## Ty1on (Sep 1, 2016)

I think with more comfort researching online and with social media having exploded, alternatives to being stuck with a TS you don't use are more widely known.


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## Dani (Sep 1, 2016)

ITA..if you mention time-sharing..people think it's a scam these days. Still and all..it doesn't prevent them from getting sucked into buying one after the promise of a free gift  

I will say, once I get acclimated, I plan to bring more friends into it of the prices remain this low.



rickandcindy23 said:


> I believe these timeshare rescue and timeshare exit companies that advertise the evil of timeshares are doing great damage to the industry.  These "service providers" are convincing people that timeshares are a huge waste of money; a lifetime commitment you cannot get rid of yourself, without their help; and a legacy your heirs don't want.
> 
> There are "law offices" calling us several times a week to help us get rid of our timeshares, too.  And of course there are upfront-fee companies who promise the moon and the stars, and both companies will take your money and run because they are just scamming timeshare owners.
> 
> ...


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## Ty1on (Sep 1, 2016)

Why do you hate your friends?


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## jme (Sep 1, 2016)

Phydeaux said:


> Even music CD's are a has-been.
> 
> Count me as regretful that I bought in.
> 
> Ask 100 people on the street, and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority would tell you TS's are a dinosaur, and to stay far, far away from a purchase.



yes and no

(and from me that would be a big resounding NO !) 

It absolutely depends on the resort system purchased, and a broad general statement about "all timeshares" is simply not valid.

We bought Marriott and we're delighted as heck we did......not even marginally happy, but extremely happy..... and it's now paying financial dividends going forward because we can travel at only a maintenance fee level at maximum (and as low as half that cost if we rent out a couple and use the rest). 

We won't stop traveling, so we're in a good position.  Our developer purchases are long paid (we didn't finance), and we added a few inexpensive resales.  Therefore we take luxury vacations at top-notch resorts in awesome places. Why the H would we ever want to rent at today's high prices, and abandon what we have? I cringe when a former Marriott owner boasts that they "sold 'em all and bailed".  WHY? 

And we can use trades into more of same for no fee......and "rewards trips" if desired.  Not to mention that when we enrolled our weeks for a minimal amount we got the immediate availability of 18,000 destination points to use as needed (which has a whole host of REALLY good possibilities).

On the other hand, if you (or someone else) initially bought into a 
second or third-tier resort system or a single resort (I'm only assuming), you may have problems. These are the timeshare properties that are worth $1 on ebay and don't even sell at that price, and the ones that have maintenance fees twice as high as what you can rent them for, and the ones that people are complaining about and leaving in droves. These are the scenarios to which you must be referring.

I imagine the Hilton and Hyatt owners are also still satisfied, as those have similar systems with top-notch resorts and locations. 

When I read TUG posts about the "bad times", I immediately know that not all timeshares are created equal, so the posters must be talking about something entirely different. There may be some who have abandoned Marriott too...but if they choke on a maintenance fee, then they certainly don't go out and purchase a rental for that same price or higher, so therefore they are simply abandoning any travel altogether OR sticking to destinations that are simply cheap. 

Matter of fact, I'm currently in process to buy another Marriott resale week as we speak.  Top resort, and best price I've seen (currently they're running much higher across the board from 2-3 years ago). We can use it (most likely) or rent it out and pay for 2.5 maintenance fees, or in 4.5 years turn into a positive cash flow.



.


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## Password is taco (Sep 1, 2016)

For background, I'm in my low-30's, have wife and two kids, relatively new to timesharing (on a direct basis anyway - parents and inlaws have owned them for years), and currently in the acquisition stage. 

From my perspective, it's very easy to see that the giveaway timeshares are typically outdated (have not been kept up over the years) or the timeshare systems they are in strips all the benefits out of resales.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 1, 2016)

Even the timeshares that are out-dated (legacy resorts like Foxrun) have great trade value in II.  Now II has added a fee to get a larger unit, but 2 bedrooms at Foxrun don't have that fee, so I can get 2 bedrooms easier now.  It's all good.


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## Password is taco (Sep 1, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Even the timeshares that are out-dated (legacy resorts like Foxrun) have great trade value in II.  Now II has added a fee to get a larger unit, but 2 bedrooms at Foxrun don't have that fee, so I can get 2 bedrooms easier now.  It's all good.



My fear would be someday these types of resorts don't trade as well anymore and you can't even give it away.  I'd rather pay for something in a system that has a good track record to have a better chance of Retaining some value.


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## bogey21 (Sep 1, 2016)

Password is taco said:


> From my perspective, it's very easy to see that the giveaway timeshares are typically outdated (have not been kept up over the years) or the timeshare systems they are in strips all the benefits out of resales.



Disagree with your perspective.  The six Independent Fixed Unit/Fixed Week HOA controlled Weeks I owned before I had to gave up TimeSharing for health reasons all were in very liveable shape and had one big plus, location, location, location.  They cost me between $0 and $1,000.

George


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## Password is taco (Sep 1, 2016)

bogey21 said:


> Disagree with your perspective.  The six Independent Fixed Unit/Fixed Week HOA controlled Weeks I owned before I had to gave up TimeSharing for health reasons all were in very liveable shape and had one big plus, location, location, location.  They cost me between $0 and $1,000.
> 
> George



Of course there are always exceptions, although I think you are missing my point.  "Livable shape" doesn't really appeal to me for a vacation. My house is livable, I'm looking for a step up in quality/appearances on vacation.


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## Ken555 (Sep 1, 2016)

Password is taco said:


> My fear would be someday these types of resorts don't trade as well anymore and you can't even give it away.  I'd rather pay for something in a system that has a good track record to have a better chance of Retaining some value.





While there are always exceptions, this is one reason I elected to purchase Starwood in 2005. So far, even with the recent changes of ownership and more, the resorts are quite nice. Of course, many people have lost value on their purchases, even those who bought resale, so you need to be careful no matter what you purchase.


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## Aloha-Hawaii (Sep 1, 2016)

I am in the process of giving back my timeshare as part of the Wyndham Ovation program.  Wyndham is taking back my odd-year week usage for no fees, which even includes the deed recording fee.  They are paying for everything!

The Kona Hawaiian Resort is a beautiful resort and very well maintained.  The maintenance fees are not that bad either.  2016 fees were $606 and 2017 fees will probably be not much difference.  The fees over the 15 years that I owned this timeshare did not increase much at all.  I think it started at around $570 and now it is $606!!

I am giving up my timeshare because I have found that you can reserve the same type of week value on the resale market, and you don't have to own a timeshare.  

I can't understand why anyone would want to be "tied" into a lifetime commitment.  I am just fortunate that Wyndham came up with a deed-back program called Ovation.  Most timeshare brands do not have such a program and you will be stuck with your timeshare until someone wants to buy it or take it for free!


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## ronparise (Sep 1, 2016)

Password is taco said:


> Of course there are always exceptions, although I think you are missing my point.  "Livable shape" doesn't really appeal to me for a vacation. My house is livable, I'm looking for a step up in quality/appearances on vacation.



For me like George the resort isn't the primary reason I go on vacation.  It's the location. Don't get me wrong, nice is better than not,  but  I kind of like my home. And I have a pool and a boat tied up in the canal and flowers and fruit trees and palms in the yard I am not trying to duplicate home or even improve on it. I'm going for something different. And a different location perhaps a property right on the riverwalk in San Antonio or on the Mardi Gras parade route in New Orleans or on the beach in Oceanside ca.  I can't do that stuff at home

That's were I see value in the timeshares I own.  Location location location


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## VegasBella (Sep 1, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> I think with more comfort researching online and with social media having exploded, alternatives to being stuck with a TS you don't use are more widely known.



I agree with this.

I also think it's like the OP is just mis-remembering the past.



Password is taco said:


> From my perspective, it's very easy to see that the giveaway timeshares are typically outdated (have not been kept up over the years) or the timeshare systems they are in strips all the benefits out of resales.



Not always. I've noticed that many are in a transitional period when they're given away. They're getting remodeled or updated and it's taking years for example. Or they're moving from one system to another system and original owners get scared of the new system.

But also, sometimes it's just one man's trash is another man's treasure. I recently acquired a giveaway week that I would have paid for. The previous owner just didn't need or want it anymore.



ronparise said:


> For me like George the resort isn't the primary reason I go on vacation.  It's the location. Don't get me wrong, nice is better than not,  but  I kind of like my home. And I have a pool and a boat tied up in the canal and flowers and fruit trees and palms in the yard I am not trying to duplicate home or even improve on it. I'm going for something different. And a different location perhaps a property right on the riverwalk in San Antonio or on the Mardi Gras parade route in New Orleans or on the beach in Oceanside ca.  I can't do that stuff at home
> 
> That's were I see value in the timeshares I own.  Location location location



I agree with this. To me the resort matters but it's way more about the vibe of the resort than about the age or amenities.


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## Dani (Sep 1, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> Why do you hate your friends?



Lol.......


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## Dani (Sep 1, 2016)

Thanks for the additional responses. I was never attracted to timeshares in systems. After my first purchase through a developer, I purchased cheap weeks. Two with amazing trade power and others to get standard/easy to get weeks. I've never once stayed at  a timeshare that I've owned. I purchased solely to trade as I was interested in going to new places each year with the exception of the Atlantis which I visited yearly. I'm probably in the same frame of mind. This is what I'm looking for so low prices work for me as long as MF's are low. 

Vegas... I THINK my memory is pretty good...lol... You'd have to let me know what I'm remembering incorrectly.


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## MuranoJo (Sep 2, 2016)

(Just realized I responded from page 1 before seeing all the additional pages. Oh well.   Welcome back, Dani!)

I also agree with Dave's post.  Exchanging certainly isn't as fun, what with all the prime property showing up in rentals. I remember finding some great stuff just sitting online and have had a lot of great memories & trips.  

And the fees keep going up, up, up.

Only thing I might mention is I think the TPU system is actually better than the previous (more nebulous IMO) exchange system for weeks. Our deposit value was a secret, as was our exchange value.  At least now we can see what value is placed on our deposits, and what it costs for exchanges, whether or not we agree with that value.


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## VacationForever (Sep 2, 2016)

I am having an interesting week at Vino Bello analyzing cost of stay.  

Rack rate rental for the 2BR is more than $7K. Shell MF for this week would have cost around 2.2K.  I traded in using a 1BR, MF, trade and ePlus fees, it cost me around $800.  

Shell is trying to sell points for $8 per point, several owners are giving these points away for free because of high MF.

Shell MF is higher than cost of timeshare used to trade in, but much lower than renting from Wyndham (Vino Bello).  

There is a value proposition for owning Shell timeshare because it costs way less to own than to pay rack rate to rent from Wyndham.  But then if you look at using a different timeshare to trade into Vino Bello, there is a good chance that it will cost you less.  

It depends on where you are in terms of how you measure value.  Renting from Wyndham relieves you from locking in ownership.  Owning Shell gives you assurance that you can book a week of your choosing.  Not owning Shell gives you a chance that you can get a Vino Bello stay at much cheaper rate.  No one is right or wrong.

I am at the stage in life where I want to simplify life, and get rid of most of my timeshare weeks, leaving my vacation $ flexible as to how I want to spend them - cruise, timeshare or rent.


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## WinniWoman (Sep 2, 2016)

ronparise said:


> For me like George the resort isn't the primary reason I go on vacation.  It's the location. Don't get me wrong, nice is better than not,  but  I kind of like my home. And I have a pool and a boat tied up in the canal and flowers and fruit trees and palms in the yard I am not trying to duplicate home or even improve on it. I'm going for something different. And a different location perhaps a property right on the riverwalk in San Antonio or on the Mardi Gras parade route in New Orleans or on the beach in Oceanside ca.  I can't do that stuff at home
> 
> That's were I see value in the timeshares I own.  Location location
> location



I have to have both. We like our home also, but it is secluded and lonely. And when we are home we tend to work around the house and do things we need to do. It is nice to just get away. We don't have a pool, a boat or water right out our door. 

Location and the resort are both important to us. Right now we are looking at renting in Durango, Colorado for next year (hopefully). We don't like the Wyndham units there as they are tiny- even though we will be out mostly during the day. We want something we can spread out in a bit in when we are in the unit and where there are amenities and things going on and we are looking at Purgatory.

We have also rented homes in places we wanted to visit and they were very nice, but we still like the resort atmosphere. Renting these homes was just like being in our home (not as nice, though)- quiet.

At resorts there are things going on. You see people around. There are pools, tennis courts, game rooms, entertainment, whatever. There is a bit of camaraderie with the other guests and owners (at least at the resorts we own at).

And when we are in the unit we like it to be clean and comfortable It needn't be luxurious, but we do like "nice".


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## Roger830 (Sep 2, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Location and the resort are both important to us. Right now we are looking at renting in Durango, Colorado for next year (hopefully). We don't like the Wyndham units there as they are tiny- even though we will be out mostly during the day.



I know this is off topic, I'd just like to point out that this is an excellent in-town location next to the Durango-Silverton railroad. We stayed across the street in the Best Western for about $150+tax per night before being Wyndham owners. There are both suites and 1-bedrooms. The points required for a 1-bed is a low 105,000 in prime season. 

I want to go to Durango again and stay there.


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## Big Matt (Sep 2, 2016)

I see as many give aways at Marriott/Starwood/Hyatt.  Most are off or low season.  It's hard to justify paying $1500 per year for a April in Tahoe, January in Williamsburg, etc.  These resorts are all very nice and well kept, just not worth the maintenance fees.  Makes complete sense to walk away



Password is taco said:


> From my perspective, it's very easy to see that the giveaway timeshares are typically outdated (have not been kept up over the years) or the timeshare systems they are in strips all the benefits out of resales.


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## Password is taco (Sep 2, 2016)

Big Matt said:


> I see as many give aways at Marriott/Starwood/Hyatt.  Most are off or low season.  It's hard to justify paying $1500 per year for a April in Tahoe, January in Williamsburg, etc.  These resorts are all very nice and well kept, just not worth the maintenance fees.  Makes complete sense to walk away



Agreed, I missed that in my initial post, but it's certainly true.  Big price difference between prime and low season at ski resorts for example.


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## donnaval (Sep 2, 2016)

We were thrilled with the Wyndham system when we bought our first TS, and acquired many free or nearly free units based on the system as it was at the time.  Our plan was to take advantage of the 28k trades in RCI so we could spend a good part of each year traveling when we retired.  If we had too many points one year, we could rent them to another owner and transfer them.  If we required more points, we could rent them from another owner.

Well.

Wyndham changed, no more 28k trades.  No more points transfers between owners.  Outrageous add-on fees for transactions and guest certificates.  We like Wyndhams very much but they don't have locations in many of the places we'd like to visit.  But exchanging through RCI is now unbelievably costly compared to my very worst non-Wyndham TS - example, 205k Wyndham points to exchange into a 2-br unit that I was able to get for 4 TPUs on a recent RCI "sale."  Using Wyndham would've cost ~$1100 worth of points, plus the exchange fee - about $1300 or so.  4 TPUs were worth ~$88 plus $219 - $307.

We've deeded back most of our Wyndham points through Ovation and all we kept are some RTU affiliated resorts that will expire over the next few years.  Now, I'd like to scale down a couple more non-Wyndham weeks units we own and just keep two that have a good MF to TPU ratio.  Since we are able to travel at the last minute we can take advantage of the RCI sales and TPU reductions to get us to the point where the Wyndham 28k trades once got us.  

The exchange companies have also put a huge crimp in our enjoyment - the exchange fees have gotten so high, and now with II implementing the unit size upgrade fee BOOM, more cost.  It's very sobering to see that you can often book a "getaway" for far less than it would cost to use up your underlying unit plus exchange fee - not always, but often enough.   

I stopped recommending timesharing to my friends, because even in the "good old days" it all seemed like too much effort for them.  It's even more effort now.  I still enjoy the game, but the next unexpected upheaval could change that, too.


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## csxjohn (Sep 2, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I believe these timeshare rescue and timeshare exit companies that advertise the evil of timeshares are doing great damage to the industry.  These "service providers" are convincing people that timeshares are a huge waste of money; a lifetime commitment you cannot get rid of yourself, without their help; and a legacy your heirs don't want.
> 
> There are "law offices" calling us several times a week to help us get rid of our timeshares, too.  And of course there are upfront-fee companies who promise the moon and the stars, and both companies will take your money and run because they are just scamming timeshare owners.
> 
> ...



These companies do provide a useful service other than giving us cheap timeshare deals on eBay.

They are taking timeshares out of the hands of people no longer willing or able to pay the fees and getting them into the hands of people like us who are willing to pay.

I think without them, Timeshare World would really be hurting more than it is.

I hop this isn't too far off topic, if it is please get it deleted.


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## DeniseM (Sep 2, 2016)

The first generation of timeshare purchasers is aging, down-sizing, and may not be able to travel for a variety of reasons - they are getting rid of their timeshares.  We are seeing those timeshares on the resale market now.  

It's kind of like real estate, when you realize that all the original owners in your 20-40 year  old neighborhood, are now senior citizens who are selling or renting their homes.


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## DeniseM (Sep 2, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> I hop this isn't too far off topic, if it is please get it deleted.



Not at all - and besides, if it weren't for off-topic post, we'd have about half as many posts!


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> These companies do provide a useful service other than giving us cheap timeshare deals on eBay.
> 
> They are taking timeshares out of the hands of people no longer willing or able to pay the fees and getting them into the hands of people like us who are willing to pay.
> 
> ...



I am happy with my rescued timeshares as well.  Some never get into another person's hands.  And we have had the argument before.  We agreed tht some of these timeshares end up in Viking Ship LLC's, as Denise M. termed it, and never see the light of day again.  The smaller HOA's cannot rescue these weeks from oblivion without a lot of money.  

I see the companies advertising on television and they are not re-selling the timeshare.  I speak mainly of Timeshare Exit Team, a company that nags the management company until the HOA board relents and takes the timeshare back.  I see those companies as detrimental to the timeshare world.  The commercials are ridiculous!  Such lies.  I wrote about it before, so I won't go into it all again.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 2, 2016)

*Foreclosure Without All The Courthouse Folderol.*




rickandcindy23 said:


> The smaller HOA's cannot rescue these weeks from oblivion without a lot of money.


Don't some states (e.g., Florida) have administrative (i.e., non-judicial) foreclosure provisions that can be used to regain clear title to derelict timeshare units ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2016)

AwayWeGo said:


> Don't some states (e.g., Florida) have administrative (i.e., non-judicial) foreclosure provisions that can be used to regain clear title to derelict timeshare units ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I don't know about Florida, but Colorado procedure to rescue 1-5 timeshare weeks is $2,000.  It's better to rescue five at once.  This was something I learned as a board member.  

Timeshare deeds are just like your home deed.  Once it's paid off, it's yours until you transfer.  It's illegal to transfer a timeshare to someone you know will not maintain it; however, these owners don't have a clue what happens to their week.  So they claim they sold it or traded it, etc.  

I can see an HOA giving that owner a call to say they still owe fees, but not just one year, more like five years.  If the owner is dead, maybe it's easier to get title, I don't know.  

VRI has been working on a way to get timeshares back from oblivion for a very long time, and it requires lawyers and court hearings.  Bizarre that someone can just put it in an LLC and cause the HOA so much grief.


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## ronparise (Sep 2, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I don't know about Florida, but Colorado procedure to rescue 1-5 timeshare weeks is $2,000.  It's better to rescue five at once.  This was something I learned as a board member.
> 
> Timeshare deeds are just like your home deed.  Once it's paid off, it's yours until you transfer.  It's illegal to transfer a timeshare to someone you know will not maintain it; however, these owners don't have a clue what happens to their week.  So they claim they sold it or traded it, etc.
> 
> ...



I have often said that an hoa, must accept deedbacks, but of course thats wrong, they dont have to do anything.  

so instead of the simplistic HOAs must accept deeds back, ill say They dont have to,  but they are doing a disservice to their owners if they dont, when they know the alternative is a viking ship LLC


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 2, 2016)

ronparise said:


> I have often said that an hoa, must accept deedbacks, but of course thats wrong, they dont have to do anything.
> 
> so instead of the simplistic HOAs must accept deeds back, ill say They dont have to,  but they are doing a disservice to their owners if they dont, when they know the alternative is a viking ship LLC



The same resort I was on the BOD just sold a huge number of weeks to some vacation club, thinking this was a great solution.  I think not.  I WAS on the board but the board lost direction somehow and I resigned. 

My current BOD does take weeks back for a price.  The owner must be current and must pay 2 years of fees in advance.  We really have no means to sell the weeks we have.  

The fees are low at this particular resort, so it's really no problem for most owners to pay.  But we didn't want the owners to feel trapped and pay exorbitant fees to get rid of the weeks.  The ski weeks are only $720 in MF's for a 3 bedroom, 2.5 bathroom unit with garage.  

The timeshare will end in 2032.  The real estate value is through the roof for these six townhouses.  I will be too old to care.  :rofl:


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## WinniWoman (Sep 2, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I don't know about Florida, but Colorado procedure to rescue 1-5 timeshare weeks is $2,000.  It's better to rescue five at once.  This was something I learned as a board member.
> 
> Timeshare deeds are just like your home deed.  Once it's paid off, it's yours until you transfer.  It's illegal to transfer a timeshare to someone you know will not maintain it; however, these owners don't have a clue what happens to their week.  So they claim they sold it or traded it, etc.
> 
> ...



You should see what is going on in the area I live in with LLC's causing havoc in the real estate market and development- so much so that a town just passed a rule that all LLC's must reveal the true owner's name behind it before any development approvals, but that is another story. Too many loopholes with LLC's. Something has to be done.


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## jehb2 (Sep 2, 2016)

Wow. Having kids never slowed down our timeshare vacation.  We took our first daughter to Hawaii when she was 16 months and our second when she was 7 months. I find that our vacations just keep getting better and better. When Hilton opened a timeshare in Tuscany, Italy that with an RCI WEEK in Scotland allowed my family of 4 to travel throughout Europe.  Next year we're doing Japan.  We rarely travel without family and friends.

For me and I imagine many other Tuggers, timesharing and travel planning is a hobby.  It's like running a marathon (my other hobby).  If you love it, it's awesome.  If you don't, it sucks royally.


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## ronparise (Sep 2, 2016)

Have we learned nothing.  "Corporations are people too"

Easy enough to form the LLC with one manager and then simply name a new manager


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## Dani (Sep 2, 2016)

First of all, good to *see* you! Question... Have I misunderstood TPU's? I feel that 10 years ago, there was almost nothing that I could not get with my So. Cal summer unit. Now, I'm limited to 31 TPU's. That means my options are more limited now. At least that's how I'm reading it. Have yet to test out trading. 




MuranoJo said:


> (Just realized I responded from page 1 before seeing all the additional pages. Oh well.   Welcome back, Dani!)
> 
> I also agree with Dave's post.  Exchanging certainly isn't as fun, what with all the prime property showing up in rentals. I remember finding some great stuff just sitting online and have had a lot of great memories & trips.
> 
> ...


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## Dani (Sep 2, 2016)

Terrible. The fees are high and it really is hard seeing weeks available that are cheaper to rent than to own. I Totally get why you got rid of most of these weeks. 



donnaval said:


> We were thrilled with the Wyndham system when we bought our first TS, and acquired many free or nearly free units based on the system as it was at the time.  Our plan was to take advantage of the 28k trades in RCI so we could spend a good part of each year traveling when we retired.  If we had too many points one year, we could rent them to another owner and transfer them.  If we required more points, we could rent them from another owner.
> 
> Well.
> 
> ...


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## klpca (Sep 2, 2016)

Dani said:


> First of all, good to *see* you! Question... Have I misunderstood TPU's? I feel that 10 years ago, there was almost nothing that I could not get with my So. Cal summer unit. Now, I'm limited to 31 TPU's. That means my options are more limited now. At least that's how I'm reading it. Have yet to test out trading.



31 will get you quite a lot but not NYC or Disney.


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## Dani (Sep 2, 2016)

Yes!! I hope to have many timeshare vacations with my family. I used to find it fun for sure. It was a hobby. Now I don't think I have the time for it to be a hobby but I loved owning. 

Denise... All good points. 

Biking LLC's? Oh my... Lol. Have lots to catch up on



jehb2 said:


> Wow. Having kids never slowed down our timeshare vacation.  We took our first daughter to Hawaii when she was 16 months and our second when she was 7 months. I find that our vacations just keep getting better and better. When Hilton opened a timeshare in Tuscany, Italy that with an RCI WEEK in Scotland allowed my family of 4 to travel throughout Europe.  Next year we're doing Japan.  We rarely travel without family and friends.
> 
> For me and I imagine many other Tuggers, timesharing and travel planning is a hobby.  It's like running a marathon (my other hobby).  If you love it, it's awesome.  If you don't, it sucks royally.


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## LannyPC (Sep 2, 2016)

Dani said:


> I'm shocked... Stunned actually to see so many people simply giving away their weeks!! What is going on? I understand the resorts with astronomical MF's, but even those with decent fees are being given away.



If you think that's bad, wait till you see how many people are paying thousands of dollars to law firms, charities, PCCs, and Viking Ship companies to get people out of their TSs.  Of course, those courses of action are rarely, if ever, recommended here on TUG.  We usually recommend either contacting the resort directly to take the TS back or to use the free giveaway method here on TUG.

But I will agree with what Ron P. says.  If units or intervals cost more in MFs than what a rental can fetch, then it is pretty much worthless, perhaps even negative value.  That could probably be said about 80% or more of the intervals out there.

I don't know if you've seen what MFs are running right now but many are going for over $800 week if you include taxes and other things.  That works out to somewhere around $125 per night.  Many frugal travelers might choose to bundle up in a smaller room for much less per night which makes owning (or even renting) a TS a much less attractive option.


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## MuranoJo (Sep 3, 2016)

Dani said:


> First of all, good to *see* you! Question... Have I misunderstood TPU's? I feel that 10 years ago, there was almost nothing that I could not get with my So. Cal summer unit. Now, I'm limited to 31 TPU's. That means my options are more limited now. At least that's how I'm reading it. Have yet to test out trading.



Dani, I don't think you've misunderstood TPUs.  Values assigned by RCI have just changed, not necessarily for our benefit.  TPUs, like RCI points, are assigned at the discretion of RCI.  But so was the mysterious trading power before TPUs.  What I was saying is that at least now we see the mysterious trade power which we didn't see before; we may not like it and likely it is valued lower.

For instance, I've gotten MC in NYC with my SA units.  No way now, nor  could your 31 TPUs in high-demand So. Cal. Now it takes close to 60 TPUs I believe.  So what they're doing is requiring you to make multiple deposits (for the majority of members) and then pay to combine them on top of the exchange fees.   It's called G-R-E-E-D, and it may also be called Capitalism, LOL.  

Some of us are simply refusing to feed the Greed Monsters (II isn't much better) and rent, sell, give away, etc.  Or we can complain and put up with it.
I'm still hanging in there as I still get benefits which IMO are worth it.


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## Roger830 (Sep 3, 2016)

It's nice that the tpu system provides visibility, it does show it's flaws.

At my Hollywood Sands ocean front resort, every 1-bed gets the same tpu. Our units are larger than some, with a king bed, some have queen. We have a nice 2nd floor ocean view, some are in the back with a parking lot view. The resort can assign any unit to rci.

Wyndham points have the best trading power. By transferring 126,000 points, any rci 1-bed unit is available. Apparently all units, in all resorts are much better than most rci units. With Wyndham Club Access points that have about average MF, the cost is $717 per year. Perhaps Wyndham assigns different tpu values to their deposits to attract prospects for sales.


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## elaine (Sep 3, 2016)

I feel your pain in SoCal, as my 4th of July 3BR unit in Hilton Head gets only 34 TPUs--really? My other 2BR beach TS at a lower rated resort mid-Aug. got 32 TPUS, which I thought was about right. The occupancy/demand/rental rates on those are vastly different,so shouldn't they get different TPUs? I don't want to be a landlord and we still use the unit EOY, so I deposit the other years with RCI, begrudgingly.
On the flip side, I traded into an older resort at a prime location for much less than I thought it was "worth," so, it washed out in favor for me.


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## Myrtle (Sep 3, 2016)

*Its the life committment that kills timeshares*

We have truly enjoyed all the years of our time share and have said more than once we were very luck to purchase in Mexico getting a Fairfield, now Wyndham membership. Yes we bought from the developer, but got enough points for 4 two bedroom weeks and VIP status for under $30K.  The biggest incentive however, was the right to use clause. We knew that the maintenance fees would end before we got to a point that travel was not for us. We've enjoyed many wonderful trips and getting ready for the next one this month.


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## bcancelliere (Sep 3, 2016)

*Changes in Timeshare usage*

I've owned timeshares for over 20 years. Early on I used my Egrets Pointe timeshare at Edisto Island in conjunction with Sky Valley, a timeshare in the mountains of Georgia. I liked spending back to back weeks at the ocean and the mountains.
After my grandchildren became older, we did more spacebanking and travel out of the country, for the most part. However, we've grown tired of being up 24 hours straight traveling out of and back to the US.
Now that we've become older and have cut back ours out of country travel, we still (temoprarily) will keep our timeshare at Edisto Island because it's a popular place to go in July and rental income covers our maintanence fee, if we decide not to use it ourselves. We were able to pur together 4 timeshare weeks (the month of August) in a freestanding mountain home in Sky Valley, GA, where the temps are 10 degrees cooler than our home in Greenville, SC. It's a great place to relax, they have a pool, streams and hiking trails along with one of the best Championship golf courses in GA. Interestingly enough, although we're in the mountains, there are excellent restaurants a short drive away. 
We now plan to exchange an extra week we have in Sky Valley to see some other areas that are drivable from our home.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 3, 2016)

jme said:


> yes and no
> 
> (and from me that would be a big resounding NO !)
> 
> ...



Excellent post Marty.  It states the case very well for why someone would want to own several timeshares and why it can make good financial sense for some people.  I have much the same philosophy, but on a smaller scale than you.  We own three Marriotts and my only real complaint is that the annual increases in maintenance fees are out of control.  That trend does worry me, however.


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## donnaval (Sep 3, 2016)

The "in it for life" has definitely proven to be a downside for us as time has gone by - not because we don't enjoy the timeshares or traveling, but because we never anticipated that our resorts would change ownership or management leading to changes that are horrible for us.  My previous post mentioned how Fairfield/Wyndham totally changed our ownership in that system.

It seems it would be only fair that if a resort undergoes such a change, owners who bought in with one set of expectations should be given the opportunity to opt out.  For example, we owned a nice TS in Orlando, great week, if we didn't use it we could always rent it to cover our MFs and make a little profit besides.  Then Diamond acquired the resort.  Within 3 years, our fees more than doubled, and we were bombarded incessantly with sales pitches to buy into the DRI Club.  With the huge MF increase we could no longer rent the unit without taking a loss.  Staying in the unit meant constant harassment by the sales force, and besides at the new high MF it simply wasn't worth it, not with so many low-cost options in Orlando.  Exchanging the unit made it impossible to get value for value due to the high cost of the exchange fee on top of the now-exorbitant MFs.  When we learned about the Diamond buy-back here on TUG, we were THRILLED to PAY to get rid of this TS we had once loved and enjoyed.  We did not change.  Diamond changed what we owned and we had no say in the matter.  I see the same thing happening now to the former Gold Key owners in Va Beach, where we had recently considered buying because we enjoyed the resorts.  But with Diamond taking over, no way.  We are so grateful we didn't buy only to be burned by Diamond again.

We have another TS that has undergone a Festiva takeover.  Not happy with that, either, but for now we can still manage to make that one work.  We would have never purchased into a Festiva resort, but now we're stuck for life with one.


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## Phydeaux (Sep 3, 2016)

donnaval said:


> The "in it for life" has definitely proven to be a downside for us as time has gone by - n*ot because we don't enjoy the timeshares or traveling, but because we never anticipated that our resorts would change ownership or management leading to changes that are horrible for us.*  My previous post mentioned how Fairfield/Wyndham totally changed our ownership in that system.
> 
> *It seems it would be only fair that if a resort undergoes such a change, owners who bought in with one set of expectations should be given the opportunity to opt out.*  For example, we owned a nice TS in Orlando, great week, if we didn't use it we could always rent it to cover our MFs and make a little profit besides.  Then Diamond acquired the resort.  Within 3 years, our fees more than doubled, and we were bombarded incessantly with sales pitches to buy into the DRI Club.  With the huge MF increase we could no longer rent the unit without taking a loss.  Staying in the unit meant constant harassment by the sales force, and besides at the new high MF it simply wasn't worth it, not with so many low-cost options in Orlando.  Exchanging the unit made it impossible to get value for value due to the high cost of the exchange fee on top of the now-exorbitant MFs.  When we learned about the Diamond buy-back here on TUG, we were THRILLED to PAY to get rid of this TS we had once loved and enjoyed.  We did not change.  Diamond changed what we owned and we had no say in the matter.  I see the same thing happening now to the former Gold Key owners in Va Beach, where we had recently considered buying because we enjoyed the resorts.  But with Diamond taking over, no way.  We are so grateful we didn't buy only to be burned by Diamond again.
> 
> We have another TS that has undergone a Festiva takeover.  Not happy with that, either, but for now we can still manage to make that one work.  We would have never purchased into a Festiva resort, but now we're stuck for life with one.




Amen!!  I'm in the same boat.

May I add, "points" are for _games_, not vacations.


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## randster2 (Sep 3, 2016)

Timeshares have allowed many vacations with my family and friends that  would not have been possible with rentals.  I spend a lot of time to get trades, but enjoy it.  I use a combination of making requests a year ahead of the vacation, and finding trades on II.  The trades on II are often early morning (4:00 am - I work early hours) and I make
 a quick decision to take the trade.  I am looking at retirement, and just purchased a 3 bedroom Marriott Grande Vista platinum for trading.  I paid $7200 resale (a lot of money for me) so I can stay at Marriotts.  The Marriott will work along with my timeshares that have lesser trade power.  I am fortunate to have flexibility to plan vacations a year ahead.  Timeshares continue to work great for me.


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## Larry M (Sep 3, 2016)

*Ahh, but they do give you an option to opt out*



donnaval said:


> The "in it for life" has definitely proven to be a downside for us as time has gone by - not because we don't enjoy the timeshares or traveling, but because we never anticipated that our resorts would change ownership or management leading to changes that are horrible for us.  My previous post mentioned how Fairfield/Wyndham totally changed our ownership in that system.
> 
> It seems it would be only fair that if a resort undergoes such a change, owners who bought in with one set of expectations should be given the opportunity to opt out.




Ahh, but they do give you a opportunity to opt out, if you're persistent enough. I was in the same boat--inherited a Fairfield timeshare in the original Arkansas location (Fairfield Bay) where no one wanted to go--and in fact no one had ever visited. It was always exchanged through the Fairfield FAX program and then the Wyndham program.

But Wyndham kept changing the conditions--always for the worse. Each year there were fewer resorts available for exchange. Then they stopped issuing the annual catalog and you had to call and pry the resort options from the operator. And the fees! It started out free, then a few dollars, then escalated to $80 for exchanging. And the last straw was when they flat-out cancelled the exchange program.

I called Wyndham and asked to return the unit and the call was transferred several times. The last transfer was to the HOA. I explained that the unit had been bought by a family member for the purpose of exchanging as promised by the salesman. And that we had never stayed at the home resort. And that the promised exchange capability had been reneged upon. And sure enough, the HOA agreed to take the unit back if I paid a $150 transfer fee. You can read a thread about it here.

Larry


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## Larry M (Sep 3, 2016)

*Love my Egrets Pointe timeshare*



bcancelliere said:


> I've owned timeshares for over 20 years. Early on I used my Egrets Pointe timeshare at Edisto Island in conjunction with Sky Valley, a timeshare in the mountains of Georgia.



I love my Egrets Pointe timeshare. You didn't mention that it is an *independent* timeshare, not a part of any chain. The benefits are:

Your concerns are actually listened to. You can make a difference. In fact, owners are solicited to sit on the board.
Realistic maintenance fees. No chain-owned "management company" to inflate the maintenance fees.
Regular offers for additional weeks for $300. Or free if you'll spend two days painting an adjacent unit.
I purchased Week 33 in 2012. It's a wonderful week. South Carolina schools are back in session, but North Carolina schools are not. Hence the island is not crowded at all, but all the restaurants and attractions are still open and it's still good beach weather.

I admit to wishing it were a little closer to the water, though. It's 10 degrees cooler there.

Larry


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 3, 2016)

jme said:


> yes and no
> 
> (and from me that would be a big resounding NO !)
> 
> ...



I couldn't have said it better than Marty.  I can honestly say buying into the Marriott program was the best investment bar none that I ever made for my family. We  still fell that way to this day as 2016 was a great year with 2 awesome weeks of vacation on HHI and a record rental year for the rest of our portfolio.    

Aside from the 20 or so priceless vacations we've rented every one of our weeks successfully, every year even through the recession, many well above MF and all have retained 40-100% of there resale value so it truly does depend on what you buy.

I know I stayed exclusively with Marriott because even though there are some truly nice independent resorts out they have much more risk involved with them. That's not true for all but most I think.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 3, 2016)

I am very happy with my Marriott's Willow Ridge Platinum weeks, both bought resale for literally 95% less than retail.  

[removed - so as not to be construed as advertising]


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## donnaval (Sep 3, 2016)

> Ahh, but they do give you an option to opt out



A few do, but most don't.


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## Quinte (Sep 3, 2016)

Relatively new to TS, but have been enjoying our vacations.  We have to plan our vacations well in advance, so we don't mind the planning. 

I had an aunt and uncle who bought into TS in the 1970's; mostly single resorts, all of them in the Orlando area, with a total of 13 weeks.  They always bought with low maintenance fees, but they must have been artificially low, as the costs doubled in the early 00's. 

Then they bought a house in the same area, as they wanted to spend longer and so, they kept one, offered them to their kids (one took one) and sold/gave back the rest.


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## Dani (Sep 4, 2016)

Love reading these perspectives. Learning a lot.


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## elaine (Sep 4, 2016)

I bought to use, which meant prime summer weeks at prime locations. Even with that, I have deeded back, given away 2 of my weeks, as I did not think the annual fees were worth it for trading purposes for weeks we no longer used.
Imagine for off-season (winter) and even shoulder (late fall, early spring) weeks are seasonal beach resorts. That's a solid 1/3 to 1/2 of the owners paying annual fees for worthless weeks, IMHO. That is just not a business model that can sustain itself, IMHO, esp. with any downturn in economic conditions. Plus, add in aging of resorts.
Knowing what I know now, after 10+ years, I would only buy a hotel-branded week or mini-system in a high demand, nearly year round area. Of course, the annual fees for such are usually 30% higher than for non-branded. But, I agree with PP, the quality is maintained and there is a much easier rental market and easier exit abilities.


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## LauriBuck (Sep 8, 2016)

I have been involved with timeshares since at least 1985.  Back then, my parents owned a time share in Joplin, Mo. which they would trade with RCI.  I worked for TWA, so we enjoyed vacationing with them in Austria, Italy, England, and Wales (besides places in the US).  We took a tour in Orlando about 1995 and fell in love with the Embassy Grand Beach, so we bought into that system, hoping that it would eventually translate to Embassy Suites hotels (never did), but know that we would return frequently to Orlando anyway.  That was eventually bought out by Sunterra and then Diamond.  Along the way, we ended up purchasing more points with a deed in Branson, then we were talked into buying into the trust.  I think I've gotten my money out of most of that, but regret purchasing more in the Hawaii collection a couple of years ago.  So far, I have never had to resort to using diluted point values for something other than TS usage.  I have not been in the habit of reserving well in advance, so have frequently gotten more value for my points by reserving on short notice.  I have also kept from losing points by using points that would be expiring to reserve weeks via II as I can reserve into the next year with points that would expire this year if I reserve by Oct. 31st.  I've not been very pro-active with this either, but I've found some very nice resorts this way.  (We've just returned from a week at Runny Y Ranch by Worldmark in Klamath Falls, OR).

I would love to get rid of the high maintenance fees with DRI, but for the most part, I've still managed to spend less with the cost of my points + exchange fees, than I would have spent renting the same property.  It does seem to be getting more difficult to do this.  I'll probably eventually end up giving back my points, but I currently have so many points banked that I would lose that it doesn't seem feasable now.  As long as I can still get my value from my points, I'll use them.

I probably won't go to any more "Owner's Updates", as I've found that I tend to know the new programs better than any of the sales weasels and the last one just wouldn't take "no" for an answer and he tried to make me feel stupid that I couldn't see the value in the way he was doing math.


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## baconmg (Sep 21, 2016)

*Never pay retail*

I started buying weeks about 4 years ago for either zero $ or almost zero. The best buy was at Lawai Beach Resort on Kauai,  I visited this resort when it was first selling weeks around 1988. The going price for a 1 bdrm unit was $25K. Last year I purchase on resale from an owner who was anxious to sell.  Three weeks annually for a total of $500 which included my share of closing costs. This was an original owner who paid full price in 1990. Another purchase I made was at Pono Kai Resort also on Kauai, two annual weeks for a ocean front unit for zero money out of pocket.  I also was given the 2015 use with the maintenance fees already paid in full by the previous owner.  Look around on the internet especially Ebay and also local realtors in Hawaii.


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