# Comments Welcome on My Purchase Consideration



## timanddon (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi Guys-
Been a while since I was here last, but back in the wanting to buy mood.

Here's the deal:

Fox Hills Resort
USA,WI,Mishicot  
Year 2011
Week 01 - 53  
Two Bedroom Lockout  2 Bath
$0.01
Maint $498.00
Exp 2010-09-28

We love northern Wisconsin, this puts us within half a days drive of Lake Superior and North Central Wisconsin, a little longer to the East Coast of Lake Michigan.  It's less than a days drive from home.  It looks as though it is a good trader if want to consider trying to go someplace else.

Any comments or feedback?


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## theo (Sep 4, 2010)

*My $0.02 worth, since you've asked...*



timanddon said:


> ...Week 01 - 53...  Any comments or feedback?



I would strongly recommend asking specifically about (and then confirming any info given to you in respone) regarding any restrictions or "blackout" periods pertaining to this particular "float" ownership. Maybe there aren't any, but *don't* assume *anything* ---ask! Finding out later that you have a specific "season" or "window" limitation which doesn't work for you at all would *not* be a pleasant surprise...

I don't know a thing about the area or the resort, but this is a pertinent and important detail to flesh out for *any* floating ownership *before* purchase, wherever and whatever it may be.


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## dmbrand (Sep 4, 2010)

This past weekend, I spoke with a couple that was staying at Fox Hills via exchange.  They are from MI, and were using it in much the same way as you are suggesting.  We live about 45 minutes from Mishicot, and they were visiting our neighbors.

They enjoyed staying here.  She loved the spa; he liked the golf.  They drove to Door County(it is still about a 2 hour drive to the "heart" of Door County) for a daytrip.  The furnishings are clean and modest, and the staff was courteous.

As for owning, I don't have any knowledge of it as a trader.  There are float ownerships designated as weeks 21-39; that would be my first choice.  Before I bought a week designated as a float, I would call to find out how many memberships are vying for those weeks.  Fox Hills still has fixed weeks in their system, as well.  I do see those occasionally on Ebay.

PS-most of the weeks that sell on Ebay  for Fox Hills seem to be the ones already converted to RCI points.  This might be an option, as well.


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## theo (Sep 6, 2010)

*Reinforcing my intended point...*



dmbrand said:


> Fox Hills....There are float ownerships designated as weeks 21-39



...Indicating clearly and confirming that there *are* indeed "seasons" and "blackout periods" for at least some "floating" ownerships at the Fox Hill facility. 

The devil is always in the details; confirm those details before considering spending a dime. Sometimes owners (and particularly eBay resellers) are "less than forthcoming" about the important details of "floating ownerships". Sometimes it's out of blissful ignorance and / or lack of knowledge, sometimes out of knowing, willful deceit. In either case, make *very* sure that you learn and fully understand in clear and specific detail exactly what is available to you under *this* particular advertised floating ownership under consideration.


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## geekette (Sep 6, 2010)

Congratulations on attempting to own to use!  That puts you on a good track to have timesharing be worth it for you!

I love WI but know so little about the area.  Maint fees sound great, but do your homework to satisfy yourself that they aren't in for a major increase or special assessment soon.  

Have you personally visited teh resort?  If not, do the drive to see what you can see, either revealing why you came or just say you accidentally drove in.  never know what the guard at the gate will tell you .  

if you can get a round of putt putt in and meet owners, all the better.

maybe there is a great resale office where you can buy one week and get a second FREE!!!!   ha ha, just thinking about how great it would be to have a timeshare that near to take friends or family ...

Good luck!


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## timanddon (Sep 7, 2010)

*Thanks guys for the handholding*

Thanks Theo, Dawn and Geekette for the feedback.  I sent a list of questions to the owner via their ad on TUG (poor guy/gal won't know what hit her/him) ... if s/he answers all the questions, I will have a significant manuscript to start my first timeshare.

His/her ad says that you can "request any week of the year with this floating week".  S/He says the studio side of the lockout cannot be deposited with RCI, I will need to ask if that is the same for the other exchange companies.

The ad states the closing costs are my own and may amount to only the costs of recording and resort transfer (total = $45) if a standard warranty deed is used.  Any guidance on closing the deal and making the purchase, particularly with the legal side of things?

Thanks again to all.


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## theo (Sep 8, 2010)

*Another $0.02 worth...*

Re: I sent a list of questions to the owner via their ad on TUG (poor guy/gal won't know what hit her/him) ... if s/he answers all the questions, I will have a significant manuscript to start my first timeshare.
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You should then *confirm* directly with the resort the accuracy of any and all such "answers" provided. 
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Re: The ad states the closing costs are my own and may amount to only the costs of recording and resort transfer (total = $45) if a standard warranty deed is used.  Any guidance on closing the deal and making the purchase, particularly with the legal side of things?
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Spending $300 for a professional timeshare closing company to handle estoppel, escrow of funds, proper preparation and recording of new deed and resort notification may well be a sound investment; time is certainly money too. Timeshare Transfer of Vero Beach, FL and JRA Services of Sunrise, FL are both competent and reliable timeshare closing companies (I have *no* affiliation with either one, but have used both on several occasions in the past as both buyer and seller). 

If the resort charges a "transfer fee" (...not all do) that fee will most likely be somewhere between $50-150 (and because such fees vary, they are not included within the closing company fees cited above).Good luck.
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## timanddon (Sep 8, 2010)

*Her Reply 1 of 2*

This is the reply to my first email to her, which was nothing but the questions ... any comments?

Are there any blackout periods? No. 
Is this floating week associated with a specific season or window or is it specifically designated in some other way? No, you may select any week of the year.
What is the designation or season or window? Platinum/Red, any week, 1-52. 
How many memberships are vying for these weeks? I don’t know the number of Red week owners. Offseason float week owners may only select from the winter/offseason weeks. Red week owners may select anything.
When was the last assessment at the resort? Not while I’ve owned, at least 3 years.
Are you aware of any upcoming assessment at the resort? No
Are there any other mandatory fees charged (cleaning, utilities, occupancy taxes, energy surcharges)? Not that I know of, we’ve always traded it.
Does the resort have a program to rent units on behalf of owners? Yes.
Does the resort bulk spacebank? No.
Can a week usage be split (e.g., into separate 3- and 4-day visits)? No.  But the 2BR lockoff may be split into 2 weeks: a studio week for your use or rental -plus- a 1BR week to exchange, use or rent at the same time or on a different week, if you want.
Is the unit deeded or right-to-use? Deeded.
Are taxes part of the annual fee…? Yes.
With what exchange companies is the resort affiliated? RCI only.
How do you deposit your week with the exchange company? I call the resort, request the week I want to deposit and tell them my RCI account number.
How far in advance can you deposit a week for exchanging? 2 years, I think. But I’ve done it between 4-15 months ahead.
Do you need to prepay maintenance fees if you deposit a week early? No.
If you use the week to trade, can you reserve a specific week or does the resort assign you a week from the resorts bulk spacebanking inventory? You choose from whatever is available when you call.  I’ve had no problem getting a July week at 10-12 months out.
Is the resort part of group of resorts that offer internal trading or other preferences? No.
What is the trade power of the week? It’s pretty strong but not a tiger trader. Can get occasional DVC studios but not larger DVC units and nothing at Manhattan Club or London.
Can you provide information on previous exchanges made with the unit? DVC Old Key West studio week, Wyndham Bonnet Creek, Hilton Head Royal Dunes in summer.
Has the resort been included in any TUG trade tests? Not that I recall.
Does the week qualify for bonus weeks with any exchange companies? No, RCI doesn’t give them.
Are owners at this resort blocked from using their weeks to trade into other resorts in the area? No.
Are there any prohibitions or limitations on trading through independent exchange companies? No.
Are there any specific procedures that must be followed if you deposit your week with an independent exchange company? Not that I know of. 
How will title transfer be managed between the buyer and seller? I would get a signed buyers’ contract from you along with the $40 (Paypal) needed for closing costs, then I would send the new Warranty Deed to Manitowoc County in your name. They return it to me, stamped and official. I keep a copy, send a copy to the resort and send you the original.
Will an escrow be used? It’s not needed.  The week is free.  Closing costs are non-refundable.
Who is responsible for filing the transfer documents with the appropriate entities? I would be.  I’ve done it before.
What fees does the resort charge for changing ownership in their records? None. The county charges ~$31 in fees and the rest is for copying and postage.
Are there any special local government transfer fees or taxes. Included.
For deeded properties, what type of deed will be used to transfer ownership (quit claim, warranty deed, grant deed, other)? Warranty Deed – same as I received when I bought it.
How can I be sure that the seller is providing clear title? It’s a free week. The worst that could happen is someone challenges the ownership and you relinquish. I have no reason to think the title is not clear. You may contact the resort and verify that all fees have been paid up to date.
How long will it take to close and complete the transfer of ownership? About a month to 6 weeks.
Are the rights to use any weeks in jeopardy if closing is delayed? No.


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## timanddon (Sep 8, 2010)

*Reply 2 of 2 from her.*

This is her reply to my second email to her...again, any comments?  Am I being too uptight about this?

We’ve been timesharing since the late 90’s and we’ve owned and sold several weeks.  Since our kids are now grown, we’ve downsized considerably. Currently, we own Wyndham points and this one last floating week at Fox Hills.  We used to trade a lot more into full weeks but we’re tending to reserve more short stays these days using our Wyndham points due to my husband’s business schedule.

For a first timer, I think it’s best to have a good idea of where you’d like to vacation about half the years that you’d own something.  Think about the next 5-10 years.  Select either a particular resort (or a group that’s got resorts) located where you’d like to vacation in some of those years.  You’re asking the right questions to discern whether a resort is solvent.  Beyond that, choose something that fits your budget.  Consider resorts which you could see yourself using sometimes.

(If a studio would work for your Wisconsin needs, you could use the studio portion of a 2BR lockoff some years and rent it out others.  The 1BR side could be used the same way or exchanged every year if you wanted.  You’d get two weeks of vacation out of one reasonable maintenance fee, making it very affordable for the right person/situation.)

By choosing according to your expected vacation habits (and at a resort with a rental option), you won’t get so frustrated if the exchange companies change the way they do things.  You’ll have time to adapt or switch exchange companies or sell/give away your week if you don’t like trading through your primary company.  If you’ve made out a “wish list” of general destinations where you’d like to travel in the next 5-10 years, see if your primary exchange company even includes member resorts in most of them.  You may find that you’ll be exchanging more easily with one of the big two (RCI/II) than the other or using independents the most anyhow.

Choose a home resort that has reasonable maintenance fees – not too high and not so low that they can’t maintain the place.  For us, we’ve preferred fees between $400 and$550/week (harder to find these days).  This way, the cost of usage including an exchange fee, was still less than we’d pay for a decent hotel room in a good area to vacation.

Rising fees was the reason we sold our weeks with Marriott, Foxrun in Lake Lure and DVC points.  We also sold weeks in Texas and South Africa when our family finances tanked and we started vacationing less.  We’ve kept our Wyndham points for their locations and points flexibility (both convenient to our personal vacation habits), even though their fees are higher.  We’ve kept the Fox Hills weeks as our last regular week because it’s been affordable and a solidly good trader.  My husband would like to get a few more Wyndham points if we only have points left.  So we’re not anxious to give this last regular week away.

We’ve loved timesharing and we have no plans to stop.  It’s taken us, our family and some friends, on many great vacations to parts of the U.S. we could not have afforded without it.  In lean years, a week at the beach or in the mountains, eating in and enjoying low cost amenities or sights, was still always doable.  In comfortable years, we brought along others for the trips, filling multiple larger condos – great fun.

You need to decide what you think would work best for your situation and vacation expectations.  Enjoy learning about timeshare.


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## theo (Sep 9, 2010)

*More $0.02 worth...*

... any comments?...

Re: >> How do you deposit your week with the exchange company?<<

I call the resort, request the week I want to deposit and tell them my RCI account number.

Generally, an owner reserves a week at a resort and the owner then contacts RCI (or whomever) to deposit that week for future exchange. I'm not clear on how or why the resort would want (or even care about) an owner's RCI account number, nor do resorts generally deposit owner weeks for them in my experience, but this might just be a simple and harmless misstatement regarding the process. 
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Re: >> How will title transfer be managed between the buyer and seller?<<

I would get a signed buyers’ contract from you along with the $40 (Paypal) needed for closing costs, then I would send the new Warranty Deed to Manitowoc County in your name. They return it to me, stamped and official. I keep a copy, send a copy to the resort and send you the original.

Generally, in a private transaction with no third party closing company involvement, a recorded new deed would be sent directly to the new (not the former) owner after official recording in the County. Perhaps this person is a broker or other licensed entity of some kind (... they are, after all, apparently willing to prepare a new warranty deed), in which case the original might indeed be returned to them instead of to the new owner. No real risk to you in any case, unless they make an error in the deed preparation. Personally, I'd want (in fact, I'd absolutely *insist*) to see and review a copy of the new prepared deed *before* it got sent off to be recorded. If there was a third party closing company involved, you (the buyer) would be routinely afforded that opportunity for review prior to recording.

Re: >> Are the rights to use any weeks in jeopardy if closing is delayed? No.<<

Well, that depends upon whether the waning 2010 use year is in the mix here. If the 2010 week has already been used, then it's an academic point.  If the 2010 week has been neither reserved nor banked yet, then it's a tougher call. Since it's basically free, I'm assuming that the 2010 maintenance fee was already paid and the 2010 week already used (two facts for you to independently confirm directly with the resort). 

I see no responses that would give me too much pause, but I still recommend independently contacting the resort directly yourself in order to conclusively confirm that there are no restrictions or blackout periods on this particular ownership, and to confirm that there are no maintenance fees in arrears. Good luck.


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## dmbrand (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi Tim,

It appears that you have pretty accurate information on the resort.  The last line of the second email pretty well sums up timesharing in general, "You need to decide what you think would work best for your situation and vacation expectations."

Keep in mind that timesharing appears to be trending towards points type ownerships.  This might affect your ability to disown it in the future(fewer buyers).  Fox Hills is an RCI Points resort, however, so you may be able to convert it; find out from the resort how much it is, and the point allotment for the 1-52 float.  This could be an option when you no longer want a full week vacation.

Let us know what you decide!

PS-If you want more info on some daytrip ideas and festivals/events in our area, let me know.


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## 123tmp (Sep 12, 2010)

Re: >> How do you deposit your week with the exchange company?<<

I call the resort, request the week I want to deposit and tell them my RCI account number.

Generally, an owner reserves a week at a resort and the owner then contacts RCI (or whomever) to deposit that week for future exchange. I'm not clear on how or why the resort would want (or even care about) an owner's RCI account number,


I could be wrong but this process looks like a resort that seemingly cares about its owners! The fact that the resort seemingly allows owners to bank the week for future years before having to shell out the maint fees is another thing I like.

Though you can (attempt to) bank the week with RCI, the process does not go through until RCI gets the confirmation from the resort. This is my understanding. 

So, if the resort were to include owner's RCI # in their communication with RCI, it may possibly help with the banking process with RCI?


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## theo (Sep 13, 2010)

123tmp said:


> So, if the resort were to include owner's RCI # in their communication with RCI, it may possibly help with the banking process with RCI?



My intended point was simply that I didn't believe (...and I still don't) that a third party (i.e., a resort) could / can / would have the legal standing to make a deposit on an owner's behalf. To do so would, or so it seems to me, risk all kinds of procedural errors and / or unintended consequences. That said, I'll readily admit that I expect errors to result from virtually anything and everything RCI touches...


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## timanddon (Sep 22, 2010)

*Thanks to Leo, Dawn, geekette and 123tmp !!*

You kept advising me to do my due diligence, and it kept me from disappointment.  The 2BR lockout unit I was considering at Fox Hills was in fact NOT a 2BR lockout.  I don't believe the lady was trying to deceive me, but instead I believe that she really didn't know herself since she has never seen it, and there was some strange caveat with her ownership contract that included an efficiency unit that helped her trade both units as if it were 2 units, as one would do in a lockout.

Anyway, crisis avoided.  We were looking at if for a place to stay, but also as a trader possibility.  Now, it is not as desireable.

BUT, we had also targeted a unit in New Orleans, at Club La Pension, with the Bluegreen folks.  Everything I have read gives primarily positive reviews of this place.  It just underwent updates and they have new management.  It is in a good location on the edge of the French Quarter.  And we can hop on the train here locally and be there in less than a day.  Of all that I have seen for sale there, this one has the lowest price.

So, we are going for it.  Question :  do any of you know of a company that will handle all the paperwork and title work that is licensed in LA?  Apparently, there is something called Napoleonic Law in LA, and many of the ones that offer all the paperwork for $300 or so are not licensed in LA.  The attorney that has been suggested is the one who helped the man who bought the unit who is now selling to us.  His fees to do everything were around $700 when they completed the sale last time, may be higher now.

Also, any comments from anyone on this place?

Thanks again guys.


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## dmbrand (Sep 22, 2010)

Tim,
I'm glad you were able to find out all the right information on the Fox Hills unit before you purchased.  As for the Club La Pension purchase, I would start a new thread with wording pertaining to deed transfers in Louisiana.  Your question is too far imbedded into this thread for many people to see it.  

I am betting that someone here on TUG has the info to help you with this.


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## crane4 (Feb 16, 2011)

*Club La Pension New Orleans*

To:  timanddon or anyone else who is an owner at Club La Pension

I read yesterday but can't find now your posting on your finding out the "situation" in 2011 with the Club La Pension Unit you just purchased.  To join with other owners to find solutions in dealing with Bluegreen regarding Club La Pension, contact us at shedhead2@cableone.net.


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