# Is this a good deal [Westin Lagunamar - merged]



## margolism (Jul 1, 2013)

My family and I enjoy vacationing at the Westin Lagunamar, and have been there the past three years during President's Week in mid-February.  We booked our room through Starwood as a hotel room booking, not as a timeshare booking.

I recently saw someone selling a two bedroom lockoff, platinum week (so basically good for any week of the year, including the most prime weeks) for $1000.  I believe maintenance is $1400 a year.  

Is this a good deal?  If I want to stay at the Westin Lagunamar for prime weeks, are there better / cheaper / less risky ways to do this?

My thought, if I went this 2BR time share route, would be to only book the 1BR portion (all I really need), and rent or trade the studio portion of the unit.  Is this doable / realistic?    

A 1BR right now for President's Week, booked as a Starwood hotel room,  is about $350 a night, or $2450 for the week.  About the same as purchasing the 2BR timeshare and paying the maintenance fee for 2014.

Thanks,



Mark


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## DeniseM (Jul 1, 2013)

margolism said:


> I recently saw someone selling a two bedroom lockoff, platinum week (so basically good for any week of the year, including the most prime weeks) for $1000.  I believe maintenance is $1400 a year.



Are you sure there is no mortgage? 



> Is this a good deal?  If I want to stay at the Westin Lagunamar for prime weeks, are there better / cheaper / less risky ways to do this?



The cheapest way is to buy a less expensive Interval International trader, and trade in through II - Mexico is a very easy exchange.  However, this works best if you are flexible about when you go - generally doesn't work well for holiday weeks.



> My thought, if I went this 2BR time share route, would be to only book the 1BR portion (all I really need), and rent or trade the studio portion of the unit.  Is this doable / realistic?



The market is swamped with cheap rentals in Mexico - you may have difficulty even renting it. 



> A 1BR right now for President's Week, booked as a Starwood hotel room,  is about $350 a night, or $2450 for the week.  About the same as purchasing the 2BR timeshare and paying the maintenance fee for 2014.



I believe that some weeks at Lagunamar were sold as Event Weeks and can only be booked by owners of those weeks.  That would be an important thing to know, if you are planning on using this for holiday weeks.


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## czar (Jul 1, 2013)

Don't see anything for presidents week, but Christmas week and New Years are renting for $1500 and $1200, respectively, on Redweek for 1/1.


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## LisaRex (Jul 1, 2013)

I would go ahead and buy it if I wanted to go to Cancun every year.  The only caveat is that MFs tend to go up, of course.  But owning will allow you to call at 12 months out to book President's Day.


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## DeniseM (Jul 1, 2013)

Lisa is right - Starwood is still in active sales at Lagunamar - I would expect the MF to go up significantly in the future.  Historically, that's exactly what has happened, after the resort sold out.

However, if you want President's day every year, renting, or owning,  is your best option.  The advantage of renting is that you can select exactly what you want, with no on-going obligation (like an ever increasing MF.)


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## margolism (Jul 1, 2013)

When you say "significantly" can you give me a sense of what you mean?

Maintenance goes up by 20%, 50%, doubles?

Thanks,


Mark


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## czar (Jul 1, 2013)

margolism said:


> When you say "significantly" can you give me a sense of what you mean?
> 
> Maintenance goes up by 20%, 50%, doubles?
> 
> ...



Check the WSJ thread and you can see what kind of increases they've experienced. Not saying that would happen at lagunamar, but once the subsidy ends, MF typically go up and then there are updates, special assessments, etc.


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## DeniseM (Jul 1, 2013)

margolism said:


> When you say "significantly" can you give me a sense of what you mean?
> 
> Maintenance goes up by 20%, 50%, doubles?
> 
> ...



Our maintenance fee at the Westin Ka'anapali has doubled since we bought it around 10 years ago.  It went from around $1,000 to $2,200.


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## LisaRex (Jul 1, 2013)

The upside to owning at a place like WLR is that they really can't increase MFs too much because they are already as high as current rental rates for comparable resorts in the area.  Starwood is smart enough to know that if the MFs stray too high outside of the norm, owners will simply abandon the place.  This is especially true for seasonal resorts that have a big swing in rental rates.  They have to price MFs low enough to attract low season owners.   Otherwise, theyll begin a vicious cycle of high MFs = delinquencies = even higher MFs.


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## gnorth16 (Jul 1, 2013)

Personally, I would jump on this.  $1000 sounds very low, even for Lagunamar.   The resort is wonderful (favorite so far) and Cancun is easy to get to for just about anywhere.  Lagunamar is an easy exchange, but if you want Platinum season, buy it.  Just don't expect to make any money on renting it....or even breaking even.  

If you decide not to buy it, PM me.  Maybe I can convince my wife that another TS is an absolute must!!! 

I have a feeling this is a gold plus week or even biennial...or both.


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## margolism (Jul 2, 2013)

A few additional questions:

1.  Anyone know what percent sold the Westin Lagunamar happens to be?

2.  How much are typical closing costs for a Mexican time share?

3.  I know this is a "right to use" or something like that deed.  What happens if, for example, a hurricane destroys the hotel, or some other major catastrophe, since this isn't deeded real estate?

Thanks,


Mark


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## SMHarman (Jul 2, 2013)

margolism said:


> A few additional questions:
> 
> 1.  Anyone know what percent sold the Westin Lagunamar happens to be?
> 
> ...


1.  Last I was told (in January) was that they are still not sold out in buildings 1-9 of the first horseshoe.

2.  Should be able to do this for under $500.

3.  The building and the HOA or however that works in Cancun have building insurance to cover the rebuilding but I imagine there would be an assessment if that fell short.  As a new structure I would envisage the structure would withstand the hurricaine but would suffer significant cosmetic damage (broken windows, damaged landscaping, ground floor flooding).


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## hunkyleebo (Jul 2, 2013)

I think it's a great deal if you plan on using it every year.  We just bought a Gold week there for around the same $$$.


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## PatDexter (Jul 2, 2013)

$1,000 for an every year platinum sounds like a great deal. Check the listings for WLR plats on TUG, Redweek, and MyResortNetwork if you want a comparison.  Is the seller reputable?  There are many threads on this topic if you want to take the time to search.


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## margolism (Jul 6, 2013)

To confirm, could I book just a 1BR for one week and the studio side for a second but different week?


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## Ken555 (Jul 6, 2013)

margolism said:


> To confirm, could I book just a 1BR for one week and the studio side for a second but different week?



Yes, as long as both reservations are within whichever season your deed includes, assuming you book directly with Starwood and don't deposit it (either side) in an exchange company.


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## margolism (Jul 8, 2013)

Would I be able to rent the studio portion of the unit during a prime week for like $500-$700?


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## grgs (Jul 9, 2013)

margolism said:


> Would I be able to rent the studio portion of the unit during a prime week for like $500-$700?



I'm not sure we have a sense of the market for Lagunamar rentals.  Looking at Redweek, the lowest price listed is $700/week which is showing as rented.  Of course, the actual price realized on the rental could have been less.  

Glorian


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## margolism (Jul 14, 2013)

*Westin Lagunamar - about to purchase*

Hi TUGGers, 
I am about to take the plunge purchasing Westin Lagunamar 2BR lock off, Platinum Plus season for $999.  The terms I negotiated include having use of the property starting in 2013.  Maintenance fees for 2013 have already been paid by the seller, and the purchase price includes this usage, which is worth more than the purchase price.  This would be the primary property I would use.
I am looking at this as something that will have a minimum useful lifespan (for me) of about 12 years, and an anticipated residual value of zero.  It could very well have a residual value, or I could use it for more than 12 years, but by assuming both, I figure I am setting the bar low.  
I have closely examined total costs given my vacation requirements, and have come to the conclusion that the Westin Lagunamar actually is the best.  Here is my analysis: 
1.	 School break / vacation weeks are critical.  This is when we have gone to the Westin Lagunamar for the past three years, and having a four year old in school, our vacation schedule is unfortunately not very flexible.   My understanding is that Westin Lagunamar is generally a very easy trade for almost any week except for the holiday / vacation weeks.  It does me little good to get a trader that lets me trade into the Westin Lagunamar every week except for the one or two weeks (i.e., President’s Day in February) that I need.

2.	I looked into the mandatory resorts.  I would need a unit with at least 81,000 StarOptions to secure a 1BR at the Westin Lagunamar during President’s Week.  My understanding is that using StarOptions, the likelihood of getting 1 BR there during President’s Week at the Westin Lagunumar is extremely high (albeit still not guaranteed.)  However, the costs do not seem to make the most sense  
a.	The Starwood properties with the most advantageous StarOptions to maintenance price ratios are pretty expensive.  Let’s say I was able to get 148,100 StarOptions for a steal of $12,000, and a $1500 maintenance fee (Westin Kierland.)  I would still need to recoup that initial purchase price cost over a period of years.   Amortizing just the initial purchase price over 20 years means I am paying $600 a year just for the initial purchase price of the timeshare.  Plus my maintenance costs would be $200 a year more than the Westin Lagunamar.  And if I use 81,000 options to book a 1BR at Westin Lagunamar during a prime week, I am left with 67,100 options which is harder to use.
b.	The Starwood properties that have low –medium acquisition costs (for example, the Florida properties), have comparable to slightly higher annual fees.  But these units come with 81,000 or 95,700 StarOptions.  And having a 2BR lock off doesn’t really give me the flexibility of a lockoff, since I need to “spend” both portions in order to have enough StarOptions for President’s Week.    
c.	The Starwood properties that people are giving away for free (i.e., Atlantis) have crazy high annual maintenance fees – I could book the Westin Lagunamar as a hotel room through spg.com for less than those annual maintenance fees.  A no-brainer no go.
d.	Having a platinum plus 2BR at the Westin Lagunamar gives me the option to further reduce my annual out of pocket costs by renting off the studio portion for a prime week.  Even if I rent it for a crazy cheap $50 a night ($350 for the week), my net cost for the one bedroom at the Westin Lagunamar would be $943.00.   I have not found 1BR rental units at the Westin Lagunamar for President’s Day week anywhere near that price.   If I booked a 1BR through spg.com for President’s week, the per night cost is almost $400 including taxes.     

3.	I looked into other voluntary resorts that are strong Starwood traders, like the Sheraton Desert Oasis.  My understanding is that, even with II Starwood priority, it might be hard getting the Westin Lagunamar during President’s Week, since Starwood often does not bulk deposit those prime weeks.  So even though SDO and other properties might be good traders in general, they wouldn’t be strong at getting me the prime week I require.    My net conclusion is that voluntary resorts are strong traders in terms of property quality, but not necessarily for desirable weeks.

4.	Based on other things I have read, I am wondering if the Westin Lagunumar trade value will increase in II, since many of the Cancun timeshares in II now require an all-inclusive package to be purchased, which significantly increases the costs.  Net net – the Westin actually comes across as a cheaper option.

5.	Based on past resale prices, if I needed to, I could probably dump the Westin Lagunamar for more than I am getting it for.  And if I gave it away after one year (not likely) the total acquisition costs, including next year’s 2014 maintenance fee, would still be cheaper than booking a 1BR during President’s Day week.   And if I am able to rent / use the 2013 week and rent / use the 2014 studio portion, even if for only a few hundred each, it would be even cheaper still.

Am I missing anything in my analysis?  

Thanks,


Mark


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## siesta (Jul 14, 2013)

You have a pretty good grasp on things, so it comes down to what you think is best for you.  Ill reiterate that trading inTo WLR is relatively easy via a voluntary resort through II which will be the cheapest route, or you can buy one of the cheaper mandatory resort like SVV you could prob get around $2kish. I would much rather own a mandatory SVV as opposed to WLR since youve stated that the MF are comparable or slightly higher, and that way you have StarOptions, another thing to consideris WLR is still in sales mode, MF can and will increase, and that rate of increase is a crapshoot after sales are done.

That being said,i love WLR, was last there May 2011 and had a blast. It is obvious from your post that you have done your research, any decision you make will be an informed one.  Therefore, pull the trigger with confidence on what you feel is best for you.


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## DeniseM (Jul 14, 2013)

Right now, on the TUG Bargain Deals forum, there are 2 small SDO one-bedroom units being given away for 100% free.  

If it were me, I'd pick up one of those, and try using it to trade into WLR first.  You should be able to get a 2 bdm. at WLR, trading the small one bdm. at SDO.


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## margolism (Jul 14, 2013)

DeniseM,

Are you saying that getting a SDO 1BR will virtually guarantee me a President's Day week (1BR or better) at the Westin Lagunamar?  I don't care if I get a 1B or  a 2BR, but if I do not get President's week, SDO has no value to me.  I have no flexibility on the week.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 14, 2013)

margolism said:


> DeniseM,
> 
> Are you saying that getting a SDO 1BR will virtually guarantee me a President's Day week (1BR or better) at the Westin Lagunamar?  I don't care if I get a 1B or  a 2BR, but if I do not get President's week, SDO has no value to me.  I have no flexibility on the week.



There is never any guarantees but it is definitely possible


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## LisaRex (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd gladly pay $1000 for the peace of mind and ease of booking the exact week I wanted.  Just make sure you look over the SO calendar and make sure that the weeks you want are in the season you want.  If you own platinum, you can only reserve a platinum week at 12 months out.  To book other seasons you'd use SOs even though it is the resort you own.


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## hunkyleebo (Jul 14, 2013)

sounds like you've done your homework and identified the best approach for your situation.  Go for it!


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## VacationForever (Jul 14, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I'd gladly pay $1000 for the peace of mind and ease of booking the exact week I wanted.  Just make sure you look over the SO calendar and make sure that the weeks you want are in the season you want.  If you own platinum, you can only reserve a platinum week at 12 months out.  To book other seasons you'd use SOs even though it is the resort you own.



There won't be SOs since this is resale.


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## jarta (Jul 15, 2013)

margolism said:


> DeniseM,
> 
> Are you saying that getting a SDO 1BR will virtually guarantee me a President's Day week (1BR or better) at the Westin Lagunamar?  I don't care if I get a 1B or  a 2BR, but if I do not get President's week, SDO has no value to me.  I have no flexibility on the week.



If you have no flexibilty on the week you want at Lagunamar, you should buy at the resort you want to be at in the week you want to be there.  In other words, try to find a resale fixed Lagunamar week for Presidents week.  (I have never heard of a fixed Lagunamar Presidents week being for sale or sold at resale.  But, I cannot say there is nothing out there.  I haven't looked.)

DeniseM is saying that, overall or on the average, Lagunamar is an easy II trade.  As with any trading system, if you find there is no inventory for exactly what you want at a resort when you want to go there, you won't go there.  Finding a Lagunamar Presidents week on II before other Starwood owners trading using II do for every - or even most - years seems pretty difficult.

You probably should resign yourself to having to settle for buying at and going to another Cancun resort that sells fixed weeks.  IMO Lagunamar via SDO won't work for you every year because of your lack of flexibility.

Or, you can rent a room in Cancun for Presidents week.  I have no idea what would be available at Lagunamar or other Cancun resorts or how much it would cost.  But, since you are investigating buying resale at SDO, perhaps you have already tried that and buying and paying MFs at SDO is cheaper and/or more certain than renting a room every year in Cancun for Presidents week.  GLTY!   Salty


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## LisaRex (Jul 15, 2013)

sptung said:


> There won't be SOs since this is resale.



True!  I don't think WLR is a difficult exchange via II for most weeks, though I honestly haven't seen any data on holiday/summer weeks.  These weeks are notoriously difficult to exchange into at other beach resorts, but I just don't know about WLR.


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## margolism (Jul 15, 2013)

If I didn't need such a prime / specific week, I wouldn't even consider purchasing at WLR.  In that case, a cheapo trader would be a no-brainer.  But I only have a few specific week options for our annual warm weather getaway, this is where my family enjoys going.  With a kid in school, we don't have much flexibility.


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## LisaRex (Jul 15, 2013)

I checked on the MSC Villa Finder and WLR President's Day is still available for SO trades.  That's not to say that they'll ever deposit those weeks in II, but it'll give you a little more data to go on if you want to research buying a mandatory resort.

Of course, you'll pay more than $1000 to buy a mandatory resort worth 148,100 SOs.  So buying WLR outright (or renting) still sounds like a decent option.


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## margolism (Jul 15, 2013)

What is the MSC Villa Finder?


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## LisaRex (Jul 15, 2013)

margolism said:


> What is the MSC Villa Finder?



Folks who have SOs can go online and look to see if there is availability at another resort before they call to reserve it. Sometimes it's wrong, but it's more convenient than calling and asking a reservationist.


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## bobpark56 (Jul 15, 2013)

jarta said:


> DeniseM is saying that, overall or on the average, Lagunamar is an easy II trade.



Mebbeeso....but owning at Lagunamar can be a better deal, depending on when you want to travel and what you want to stay in. We own a 1BR Premiium season unit (81,000 staroptions). That buys us 13 nights in a premium 1BR in January...so long as Lagunamar continues to classify the first 4 weeks of the year as off-season. You can do the same with a 2BR Gold unit, provided you will settle for a 1BR when you stay.

You had best check out the points calendar before you decide.


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## DeniseM (Jul 15, 2013)

> Mebbeeso....but owning at Lagunamar can be a better deal, depending on when you want to travel and what you want to stay in.



You won't have Staroptions unless you buy Lagunamar from the developer, and buying from the developer is never going to be a good deal, unless you are requalifying a resale to reach 5 Star Elite.



> That buys us 13 nights in a premium 1BR in January..



When you do this, you aren't making a home resort reservation - you are making a Staroptions reservation anyway.  You can use Staroptions from any resort - you don't have to own there, and anyone with Staroptions can do exactly the same thing, without owning there or buying from the developer...

BTW - I am guilty of the same sin - I also bought my first timeshare from the developer (and probably spent a lot more!)    But I don't mind admitting it was a mistake, and that there are better options, unless you are working towards 5 Star Elite.


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## SMHarman (Jul 15, 2013)

bobpark56 said:


> Mebbeeso....but owning at Lagunamar can be a better deal, depending on when you want to travel and what you want to stay in. We own a 1BR Premiium season unit (81,000 staroptions). That buys us 13 nights in a premium 1BR in January...so long as Lagunamar continues to classify the first 4 weeks of the year as off-season. You can do the same with a 2BR Gold unit, provided you will settle for a 1BR when you stay.
> 
> You had best check out the points calendar before you decide.



But how much did you pay for that and how much could you sell it for.   

Denise's SDO could exchange each side for 7 nights at WLR. Possibly 2br with instant exchange. 

My WKV can also exchange for 13 nights in a 2 br in January with staroptions. It hopefully keeps over 50% of what I paid for it when I am done with it. 

WLR is a buy for requal, ocean front and event weeks if you use these each year. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## VacationForever (Jul 15, 2013)

A 2br platinum week at WLR for 1k, it is an excellent candidate for requal... Plus that is my favorite Starwood resort... I will buy it if OP does not want it.


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## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2013)

I think it sounds like the OP has done his homework, and knows the advantages and disadvantages of buying at WLR. Given the timing restrictions, and the fact that the OP likes this resort, I don't see any reason not to buy...unless renting costs almost as much, or even a little more, as renting would offer more flexibility.


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## margolism (Jul 15, 2013)

I have only seen one or two 1BR WLR Presidents Week rentals and they were several hundred more than the maintenance on this 2BR.

Booking a 1BR as a hotel room is just under $400 a night for Presidents Week. Last year I got it for $250 a night including taxes, I.e., $1750 for a 1BR vs $1293 for a 2BR.  

If only Starwood bulk deposited the primo weeks, I could get an SDO property and go that route.  

I am basically getting this for free since 2013 usage is included / maintenance prepaid.


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## VacationForever (Jul 15, 2013)

The issue with buying a trader is that it is going to be a crapshoot whether you will be getting the week you want to trade into.  Plus you will still need to pay trading fees.  II fees used to be quite a bit cheaper than RCI fees but it has risen every year and it is now comparable to RCI now.  Save yourself the stress of uncertainty.  You know you want to go to WLR over President's Day week every year, buying the week should be a no brainer.


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## jarta (Jul 16, 2013)

bobpark56 said:


> Mebbeeso....but owning at Lagunamar can be a better deal, depending on when you want to travel and what you want to stay in. We own a 1BR Premiium season unit (81,000 staroptions). That buys us 13 nights in a premium 1BR in January...so long as Lagunamar continues to classify the first 4 weeks of the year as off-season. You can do the same with a 2BR Gold unit, provided you will settle for a 1BR when you stay.
> 
> You had best check out the points calendar before you decide.



I only own top season weeks.  Last winter my wife and I were at Lagunamar for weeks 2 and 3.  My daughter and her family arrived for week 3.  We were in a 2-br lockoff and a premium 1-br.

3 years ago I was at Lagunamar for 2 weeks in January.  I am well aware of the reduced cost of going to Lagunamar during January.  It allows me to use liberally and have StarOptions left over for converting to Starpoints.   Salty


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## SMHarman (Jul 16, 2013)

margolism said:


> I have only seen one or two 1BR WLR Presidents Week rentals and they were several hundred more than the maintenance on this 2BR.
> 
> Booking a 1BR as a hotel room is just under $400 a night for Presidents Week. Last year I got it for $250 a night including taxes, I.e., $1750 for a 1BR vs $1293 for a 2BR.
> 
> ...


Where are you using 2013?  You have to use it in 2013 and it is now July.

Even now with StarOptions you can trade into WLR on Saturday 15 arrival (or Friday or Sunday) into all room.

sptung makes a great point though.


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## margolism (Jul 16, 2013)

So the owner and I just did a conference call with Starwood and they said that in order to transfer the property the paperwork needs to be handled by Fidelity Title.  I called them and the fee is around $300.  Given that this is not a deeded property, is this really the case?  Does anyone have any experience buying or selling a Westin Lagunamar resale that could provide insight into the transfer process?

Thanks,


Mark


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## DeniseM (Jul 16, 2013)

margolism said:


> So the owner and I just did a conference call with Starwood and they said that in order to transfer the property the paperwork needs to be handled by Fidelity Title.  I called them and the fee is around $300.  Given that this is not a deeded property, is this really the case?  Does anyone have any experience buying or selling a Westin Lagunamar resale that could provide insight into the transfer process?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...



This is who I use - they are Tuggers and do a lot of work for TUG members:

Legal Timeshare Transfers
Lisa Short and Mary Pless
http://legaltimesharetransfers.com/
readylegal@gmail.com
706.219.2709


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## jarta (Jul 16, 2013)

margolism said:


> So the owner and I just did a conference call with Starwood and they said that in order to transfer the property the paperwork needs to be handled by Fidelity Title.  I called them and the fee is around $300.  Given that this is not a deeded property, is this really the case?  Does anyone have any experience buying or selling a Westin Lagunamar resale that could provide insight into the transfer process?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...



Only bought 3; sold 0.  I have no idea whether the $300 is good price or not.

The Mexican trustee holds all the evidences of beneficial ownership in trust for the owners at Lagunamar.  I assume what needs to be executed is not a deed, but an assignment of the existing beneficial interest in the trust property.  And, then the trust will notify the resort and a new certificate of beneficial interest will be issued in your name.

I'd go with the company who does this regularly and in Mexico - rather than the company of a rural Georgia attorney who was admitted in 2009.  I'm an attorney who's practiced in real estate issues for over 40 years and I've handled closings - but I would never attempt to handle a transaction in Mexico.

Or, you could contact LT Transfers and ask if it would do a Mexico closing on a right to use held in trust down there and how much it would cost.  GLTY.   Salty


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## DeniseM (Jul 16, 2013)

LTT has actually been in business for many years.  Their current Attorney didn't start the company.  This company was previously owned by Long-time Tugger TTT - (Alan) and they have a lot of experience with all kinds of transfers.


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## jarta (Jul 16, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> LTT has actually been in business for many years.  Their current Attorney didn't start the company.  This company was previously owned by Long-time Tugger TTT - (Alan) and they have a lot of experience with all kinds of transfers.



Cragg, the current attorney who, by law, must supervise what goes on on at LT Transfers, as a substitute for being licensed or bonded concerning real estate transactions, was admitted in 2009.  All information on the web site, which I checked again today, indicates that it only prepares form deeds - not assignments of beneficial interests.

TTT's long years of experience is not really relevant if he is no longer the owner.

I agree that probably nothing bad will occur and certainly the amount at risk (the purchase price) is quite low.  But, IMO, this is not a cookie cutter transaction where all you do is copy the prior deed with new names placed on the new one and send it to the county recorder of deeds.  It becomes a matter of recourse if something goes wrong.    Salty


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## Ken555 (Jul 16, 2013)

I thought WLR "ownership" was interest in an American entity which in turns owns the right to use the property itself. At least, I think this is how it was explained to me years ago when they tried to sell me the property. If true, then the transfer should be somewhat simpler than other Mexican based ownership interests.

I've only bought/sold US based timeshares, but LTT has done an exemplary job communicating and processing the paperwork.


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## margolism (Jul 16, 2013)

I contacted LTT and they don't do these transactions for Mexican timeshares.

I guess with Starwood it isn't as simple as simply signing the back of the deed / agreement / whatever it is called.


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## DeniseM (Jul 16, 2013)

Thanks for the update!


margolism said:


> I guess with Starwood it isn't as simple as simply signing the back of the deed / agreement / whatever it is called



It's never this simple!    But if this was a regular Starwood deed, they could definitely handle it.


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## jarta (Jul 16, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> Thanks for the update!
> 
> 
> It's never this simple!    But if this was a regular Starwood deed, they could definitely handle it.



I never said this was a cookie cutter closing.



> I thought WLR "ownership" was interest in an American entity which in turns owns the right to use the property itself. At least, I think this is how it was explained to me years ago when they tried to sell me the property. If true, then the transfer should be somewhat simpler than other Mexican based ownership interests.



Ken,   ...   That was not how it was explained to me.  I doubt it is how it was explained to you.  It is not how the papers in my closing files (3 of them) read.  I received 3 Equity Membership Certificates.  I did not receive 3 deeds.  My title policies insure my interest evidenced by the Equity Membership Certificates.  

The Equity Membership Certificates are issued by a the resort's property owners association (a Delaware not-for profit corporation) which formally is responsible for managing the resort.  Every resort has such an association.  My certificates read: "This Equity Membership is transferable or assignable only by upon delivery to the Registrar of the appropriate assignment and transfer documents to the Registrar." 

The trust holding title to the property is a Mexican "irrevocable" land trust.  Mexican land trusts must be Mexican corporations and have Mexican trustees.  The beneficiary of the "irrevocable" trust is Turistica Cancun, a Mexican titleholder. The trust has a 50-year life - renewable for another 50 years.  

What I *was* told is that Mexico would likely change the law that restricts ownership of Mexican property to Mexican citizens within the next 100 years.  When that happens, the trust will convey out title to the Equity Membership Certificate holders by issuing deeds.  (If it doesn't happen after 100 years, I'll let my descendants worry about it.  lol!)

However, before Lagunamar, the only interest a buyer of a timeshare could get was a right to use limited to a number of years (40?) after which the right to use automatically expires and the ownership interest and the obligations to pay MFs disappear.  The right to use at Lagunamar doesn't expire.  It is perpetual (and so is the obligation to pay the MFs).

Who can own property in Mexico:  http://www.mexonline.com/propmex.htm

Please stick to computer programs.  Leave practicing law to practicing attorneys.   Salty


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## Ken555 (Jul 16, 2013)

jarta said:


> Ken,   ...   That was not how it was explained to me.  I doubt it is how it was explained to you.



Actually, it was the way it was explained to me, based on my best recollection. I could be wrong, but it was early on in their efforts to sell WLR - in fact, it was back when they didn't even have 148k weeks at all (it was yet another reason not to buy there at the time, and SVN learned from this mistake and changed the allocation of options for the property).



> Please stick to computer programs. Leave practicing law to practicing attorneys.   Salty



Um...right. As if anything I said was anywhere near "practicing law". All I did was relate what I was told and my thought that if it was true, it would make transferring property / shares easier than a Mexican deed. I believe you in that what I was told is not the case, as I have a greater trust in these types of facts from you than from Starwood, but nevertheless does not diminish my personal recollection of what I was told during what was another flawed sales effort by the team at WMH to get me to buy from the developer.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 16, 2013)

Just did a quick read through so I may have missed it.  But buying now even with 2013 usage included if the OP can only travel on President's week obviously that is passed and this years usage may be a deposit in II.  Unless next year's reservation is already made then in 2014 that week may not still be available.  So potentially it will be 2015 before the all important week is available for the purchaser.


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## Westin5Star (Jul 16, 2013)

jarta said:


> Please stick to computer programs.  Leave practicing law to practicing attorneys.   Salty



Deeds or agreements- attorneys or computer guys- all that really matters is swim up bars!!! 

No offense was meant in this message to Starwood, attorneys, or computers.  

I know Ken and he would much rather be at the swim up bar in paradise than behind any computer; after all it is the computers that allow him so much time in paradise!


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## margolism (Jul 16, 2013)

At this point everyone should grab a cocktail and regroup in the morning.


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## Westin5Star (Jul 16, 2013)

margolism said:


> At this point everyone should grab a cocktail and regroup in the morning.



Exactly; you have to admit that cocktails are better at swim up bars!


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## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> Just did a quick read through so I may have missed it.  But buying now even with 2013 usage included if the OP can only travel on President's week obviously that is passed and this years usage may be a deposit in II.  Unless next year's reservation is already made then in 2014 that week may not still be available.  So potentially it will be 2015 before the all important week is available for the purchaser.



2013 week can be deposited into II if OP is not planning to go to WLR this year.  Starwood system is showing that President's Day is still available for 2014.  There is a good chance that it will still be available when transfer is completed.


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## jarta (Jul 17, 2013)

sptung said:


> 2013 week can be deposited into II if OP is not planning to go to WLR this year.  Starwood system is showing that President's Day is still available for 2014.  There is a good chance that it will still be available when transfer is completed.



There are also 12 Platinum weeks left for *2013*.  The OP would not be limited to going during weeks 51-52 for a SVO home resort reservation that might not be available.  This week is week 28.  The closing may not be accomplished in time to reserve weeks 29-35.  But, how about weeks 44, 45, 46 or 47?

Platinum weeks at Lagunamar are different and more numerous than most warm weather SVO resorts because there are only 2 seasons (rather than the usual 3):  "5-17, 24-35, 44-47, 51-52."

It's not at all clear that a deposit in II is the only practical way to get to Lagumamar if a Platinum week is purchased today.   Salty


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

I think $300 sounds reasonable to process the paperwork.  The sooner you get this transferred, the sooner you'll be able to book a 2013 week so that you don't lose this year's use.


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## SMHarman (Jul 17, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I think $300 sounds reasonable to process the paperwork.  The sooner you get this transferred, the sooner you'll be able to book a 2013 week so that you don't lose this year's use.



And more importantly the 2014 presidents week

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2013)

sptung said:


> 2013 week can be deposited into II if OP is not planning to go to WLR this year.  Starwood system is showing that President's Day is still available for 2014.  There is a good chance that it will still be available when transfer is completed.



I can't say for WLR but at SBP SVN availability is different than nonSVN owner availability. Up until the 8 month mark I think they keep all the availability in one bucket for all owners, SVN and not, but even that may not be the case.  That is a resort with a decent number of non SVN owners. It could be better or it could be worse at WLR where most owners are still in SVN.


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> And more importantly the 2014 presidents week
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2



I checked II for President's Day '14 availability for Cancun.  There are no resorts available for Getaway purchases.  Using my strongest exchanger (WKORVN 2 bdrm), there were no weeks available at any of the gold resorts in Cancun for President's Week, either.  Of course, inventory changes daily but that's one data point that would encourage me to buy there vs. relying on an II exchange.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

Can the current owner reserve President's Week for us now, in our name, before the transfer takes place?  Once the transfer takes place, what happens to existing reservations and II deposits before title / agreement / whatever WLR uses changes hands?


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> Can the current owner reserve President's Week for us now, in our name, before the transfer takes place?  Once the transfer takes place, what happens to existing reservations and II deposits before title / agreement / whatever WLR uses changes hands?



Yes this can be done; I did this for the people who contracted to buy our WKORV unit.   However, you are unfortunately outside the home resort priority period of 8-12 months to book President's Day 2014.  Any reservation made after the 8 month window closes is considered a StarOption reservation, and I don't believe those can be transferred upon resale because you won't be in SVN.  I could be wrong about that, so do check with Starwood first.


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

I have deleted several off-topic posts from this thread, including my own.

Folks - please stick to the topic, and don't hi-jack the thread, or your post will be deleted.


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## VacationForever (Jul 17, 2013)

To address earlier post by tschwa2, it does not matter whether the new owner is going to be part of SVN or not.  In SVN, there is inventory.  As long as it is a home resort reservation in the deeded floating period it does not matter as to whether it is within 8 months or not.  Home resort owner gets preference within 8 to 12 months.  At 8 months or shorter it is open to everyone in SVN but it does not preclude the home resort owner from booking the week.  Now whether the reserved week transfers to new owner, I do not know.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2013)

sptung said:


> To address earlier post by tschwa2, it does not matter whether the new owner is going to be part of SVN or not.  In SVN, there is inventory.  As long as it is a home resort reservation in the deeded floating period it does not matter as to whether it is within 8 months or not.  Home resort owner gets preference within 8 to 12 months.  At 8 months or shorter it is open to everyone in SVN but it does not preclude the home resort owner from booking the week.  Now whether the reserved week transfers to new owner, I do not know.



I have made reservations at the 6 month mark or less at SBP on several occasions and have been told by more than one starwood employee that home resort reservations by non SVN owners *have different availability* than what is available in SVN inside the 8 month period.  I know Cindy has reported the same experience.  Is the information you are giving specifically to WLR or are you saying that I have been told incorrectly?  And if I have been told incorrectly it is possible that the OP could be told info that is incorrect.


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## VacationForever (Jul 17, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> I have made reservations at the 6 month mark or less at SBP on several occasions and have been told by more than one starwood employee that home resort reservations by non SVN owners *have different availability* than what is available in SVN inside the 8 month period.  I know Cindy has reported the same experience.  Is the information you are giving specifically to WLR or are you saying that I have been told incorrectly?  And if I have been told incorrectly it is possible that the OP could be told info that is incorrect.



I asked Starwood customer service before about reserving outside of 8 months and I was told that if the week is available I would get it as long as it is within my deeded float period.  But when I enquired the week also had SOs - we did not even talk about SOs in the conversation.


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> I have made reservations at the 6 month mark or less at SBP on several occasions and have been told by more than one starwood employee that home resort reservations by non SVN owners *have different availability* than what is available in SVN inside the 8 month period.  I know Cindy has reported the same experience.  Is the information you are giving specifically to WLR or are you saying that I have been told incorrectly?  And if I have been told incorrectly it is possible that the OP could be told info that is incorrect.



Are you saying that resale voluntary owners can reserve their home resort at 6 months, or am I misunderstanding? I guess that would make sense because otherwise theyd be shut out after 8 months. My only source of info is the Users Guide on MSC, which only speaks to SVN members.  I wish there was a Guide for resale voluntary owners.

If WLR resale owners can reserve their season outside of the Owners Priority period, the OPer may still be able to reserve WLR for President's Day after she closes.


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

When you reserve outside of your season, aren't you just making a StarOption reservation, which anyone can do, as long as you have the required number of Staroptions?


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Are you saying that resale voluntary owners can reserve their home resort at 6 months, or am I misunderstanding? I guess that would make sense because otherwise theyd be shut out after 8 months. My only source of info is the Users Guide on MSC, which only speaks to SVN members.  I wish there was a Guide for resale voluntary owners.
> 
> If WLR resale owners can reserve their season outside of the Owners Priority period, the OPer may still be able to reserve WLR for President's Day after she closes.



No.  That is not what I am saying. This is from a post I made in February. So I can't confirm that this is the way it works at all voluntary resorts but this was my experience.



> I have been told that the Staroption inventory is different then non SVN inventory at a home resort so just because there is no week long availability in the summer through SVN doesn't mean there isn't any for resale owners. The closest I have been able to confirm this is when I bought a week last year that included 2012 usage and was transferred into my account showing SO's. I tried to book and the agent insisted that I had SO's and that although no full weeks were available she could book me a partial week. I explained I was a resale owner and didn't want an SVN booking. She eventually got a supervisor that went in fixed my account and told me that there were weeks available in late September and October and that indeed inventory was separate for SVN SBP owners and non-SVN owners.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> When you reserve outside of your season, aren't you just making a StarOption reservation, which anyone can do, as long as you have the required number of Staroptions?



Anyone, that is, who has StarOptions, which I will not?

How would a platinum voluntary owner book a non-platinum week at their home resort for say a family member?


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> Anyone, that is, who has StarOptions, which I will not?
> 
> How would a platinum voluntary owner book a non-platinum week at their home resort for say a family member?



I don't think it can be done without Staroptions.  When you own a voluntary week, you have to reserve the size unit that you own, in your season.  Anything else is a Staroption reservation.


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> I don't think it can be done without Staroptions.  When you own a voluntary week, you have to reserve the size unit that you own, in your season.  Anything else is a Staroption reservation.



So if you're a voluntary resale owner, you have to either reserve your home resort in the 8-12 month window, or deposit the unit in II. Do I have that correct?


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> So if you're a voluntary resale owner, you have to either reserve your home resort in the 8-12 month window, or deposit the unit in II. Do I have that correct?



That's how I understand it.  Because outside the 8-12 mo. window, you are making a Staroption reservation.  Unless WLR has different rules - which seems unlikely.

*CORRECTION - I was referring to a resale/mandatory week - my error.


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## C30NY (Jul 17, 2013)

A friend of mine was able to pay a fee to float his week at SBP into another season, but the reservation had to be made 60 days or less prior to check-in, and based on availability of course.   I'm not sure if that is a Starwood or SBP rule, but it makes me believe that it may be possible to float a platinum into a lesser season.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> I don't think it can be done without Staroptions.  When you own a voluntary week, you have to reserve the size unit that you own, in your season.  Anything else is a Staroption reservation.



Wait, I thought you could break up a 2BR lockoff, use the 1BR for one plat week and book the studio for a different platinum week, or deposit it through  II.  If you own a 2BR plat can you split it up?


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> Wait, I thought you could break up a 2BR lockoff, use the 1BR for one plat week and book the studio for a different platinum week, or deposit it through  II.  If you own a 2BR plat can you split it up?



Yes - that's reserving what you own, during the season that you own.

These are all Staroption Reservations:

Reservations made outside your season
Reservations for a size unit that you do not own
Reservations for more or less than 7 nights
Reservations for a different resort


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> So if you're a voluntary resale owner, you have to either reserve your home resort in the 8-12 month window, or deposit the unit in II. Do I have that correct?



No, if you are a voluntary resale owner you can reserve up to the day of check in for anything in your season if there is availability. That is what the question is and there is nothing in writing about this available through mystarcentral:  Is there separate inventory for home resort reservations for resale non SVN owners or does it come out of the same inventory as SVN as long as it is a full week.  I have been told there is separate inventory but sptung believes this is not the case.  The beta inventory finder is pretty useless and without a live online reservation system we can't compare and find out for ourselves.  We have to rely on what the guides tell us which may or may not be consistent or true but what each guide seems to think is correct. 

I don't mean to hijack this tread it was just a warning to the OP that until the resale unit is set up in his account and he calls reservations, it seems he will not know if Presidents week is available for 2014.  If he calls at 12 months ahead, no doubt he will be able to reserve his desired week as a resale owner.


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

I think you are right - I am thinking thinking about resale/mandatory resorts, instead of resale/voluntary resorts, in regards to the 0-8 mo. window.



> No, if you are a voluntary resale owner you can reserve up to the day of check in for anything in your season if there is availability.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> No, if you are a voluntary resale owner you can reserve up to the day of check in for anything in your season if there is availability. That is what the question is and there is nothing in writing about this available through mystarcentral:  Is there separate inventory for home resort reservations for resale non SVN owners or does it come out of the same inventory as SVN as long as it is a full week.  I have been told there is separate inventory but sptung believes this is not the case.  The beta inventory finder is pretty useless and without a live online reservation system we can't compare and find out for ourselves.  We have to rely on what the guides tell us which may or may not be consistent or true but what each guide seems to think is correct.
> 
> I don't mean to hijack this tread it was just a warning to the OP that until the resale unit is set up in his account and he calls reservations, it seems he will not know if Presidents week is available for 2014.  If he calls at 12 months ahead, no doubt he will be able to reserve his desired week as a resale owner.



So I am now confused since this conflicts with what Denise said.  

According to her post, booking within 8 months and / or a smaller unit is a StarOptions deal.  But I will not have StarOptions.  Yet I also hear I can book at my home resort within 8 months and this is fine for voluntary resort owners.  Can someone please definitely clarify?

Thanks, 


Mark


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

Mark - my apologies - I edited my post.  (I was thinking about mandatory resales.)  As long as you are still within your season, and you are booking exactly what you own, and it's available, you can book your home resort.



> These are all Staroption Reservations:
> 
> Reservations made outside your season
> Reservations for a size unit that you do not own
> ...


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

And to define "exactly what I own" a two bedroom is considered owning a one bedroom AND a studio, which can be used in combination or separately, correct?


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## LisaRex (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> And to define "exactly what I own" a two bedroom is considered owning a one bedroom AND a studio, which can be used in combination or separately, correct?



Yes.  The good news for you is that since you'd be a voluntary resort resale owner, which means you won't be enrolled in SVN, you can still reserve President's Day 2014 at WLR once the unit is put into your name IF there is availability.  And/or you can ask the current owner to try to make a reservation and see if Starwood will honor that reservation after the sale.  I'm not sure if they will. 

Good luck!


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> And to define "exactly what I own" a two bedroom is considered owning a one bedroom AND a studio, which can be used in combination or separately, correct?



Yes - If it is a two bedroom LOCK-OFF.  But let's say you owned a standard two bedroom (not a lock-off) - then you would not be able to split it.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

At WLR all 2BRs are lock offs.


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> At WLR all 2BRs are lock offs.



I was just explaining how it works.


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## margolism (Jul 17, 2013)

Would still love to know if reservations made per transfer of ownership are held over for the new owner...


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> Would still love to know if reservations made per transfer of ownership are held over for the new owner...



The number for the Starwood title office is in the Owner Services sticky at the top of the forum.


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## Westin5Star (Jul 17, 2013)

margolism said:


> Would still love to know if reservations made per transfer of ownership are held over for the new owner...



I believe that the reservations are held but that you will need to change the name on the reservation to the new owner (or whoever will be using the unit).  This is the way that it worked several years ago but you may want to verify with Starwood that nothing has changed.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

Another question re this purchase.

Not that it is necessary, but is it possible to change the deeded week on the property for another week?  Does it even matter?  The time share says week 15 (a Platinum Plus week) but could I have that changed to week 6 or 7 instead?  And does it even matter?


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> Another question re this purchase.
> 
> Not that it is necessary, but is it possible to change the deeded week on the property for another week?  Does it even matter?  The time share says week 15 (a Platinum Plus week) but could I have that changed to week 6 or 7 instead?  And does it even matter?



No - the deeded week will never change - it's part of the legal description.  If you want a different week, you have to buy different week.


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## grgs (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> Not that it is necessary, but is it possible to change the deeded week on the property for another week?  Does it even matter?  The time share says week 15 (a Platinum Plus week) but could I have that changed to week 6 or 7 instead?  And does it even matter?



No, you can't change the deeded week.  For a float resort such as WLR, the deeded week is important as that determines the season you are in.  Within a particular season, it doesn't matter which week is on the deed unless:

--you want an event week (at WLR, those are: 7, 51, & 52)

--you think you might want to fix your week in the future with Starwood.  Of course, this will cost some extra money, and you may not always be able to do this)

Glorian


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

What exactly is an event week?  If I do not own an event week, am I unable to book for that week? How do event weeks work?


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> What exactly is an event week?  If I do not own an event week, am I unable to book for that week? How do event weeks work?



Event weeks are sold at a premium, and you can't book them with Staroptions - only the owner of the week can book it.  

So what happens to the event weeks that the owners don't use?  
Starwood gets them - sweet huh?


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

Is it true that there are certain weeks at Westin Lagunamar that are, in fact, Event Weeks, which a Platinum Plus owner at Westin Lagunamar, who owns, say, week 15, cannot book? I am a little confused by this.

I would think that if those weeks were off limits, they should be excluded from the period.


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2013)

Yes, it's true - they were listed in post #92.

Hawaii and some of the other resorts also have event weeks that are off-limits to Staroption reservations.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

But an owner of a resale property at the resort would not be booking with StarOptions, correct?  

I guess my simple question is, before I sign the papers on this timeshare:

If I own a Platinum Plus unit at the Westin Lagunamar, purchased resale, can I book it for any week in the Platinum Plus period, including President's Week and Christmas Week, assuming I call up in advance, i.e., 12 months out?

My going ahead with this purchase is contingent on this important question.  The property is a floating week property that lists week 15, which is in the Platinum Plus time period.  

Also, I believe at some point someone looked up for the WLR that President's Week was bookable with StarOptions, which would contradict that President's Week is an event week not bookable with StarOptions.  I am a bit confused now.


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2013)

You cannot book an event week, unless you own the week.

Starwood takes the unused weeks and rents them for big $$$.

I cannot verify that Prez week is an event week.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 19, 2013)

Read this thread from 2007 all the was through.

Bottom line from this was 50% of event weeks are supposed to be open for all platinum plus owners.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

OK, I just got off the phone with Starwood and was told the following, which hopefully will clarify things:

1.  100% of weeks 51 and 52 are sold as "event weeks" which get automatically reserved / booked for those who purchased those weeks.  So even if you are a Platinum Plus owner at Westin Lagunamar, if you don't have one of those two weeks, and you plan to travel during that time period, you are likely to be out of luck.  The only way a Platinum Plus owner could book there during those weeks, if they don't have one of those two weeks specifically, is if someone cancelled their Christmas week reservation.

2.  50% of week 7 (President's Week or Fiesta Week) is being sold as an event week.  I don't know how sold out it is at this point, but they will only sell 50% of the units as fixed week 7 units.  

So it seems okay to go ahead with my purchase.  If I needed to go during Christmas week, I would probably think twice.  Although now I am curious how much it would cost to upgrade to a fixed week, since this could increase resale value, perhaps.


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2013)

I don't think you can upgrade a resale to a fixed week


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## tschwa2 (Jul 19, 2013)

At one point Starwood offered 100% of what the original purchaser paid toward an upgrade as long as you spent at least $10,000 in new money.  They then went down to 80%.  I think it maybe lower now and I think it depends if they want/need what you have.  Anyway the difference between platinum plus and event weeks in 2008 was around $20,000 so even if they offered you 80% of the original price and sold you a week 51 or 52 at today's full retail, I think you would be looking at a minimum outlay of $35,000.  I don't think that your resale value would increase that much.  But you may be able to get a requal possible thrown in, too.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

Does anyone here have a copy of the WLR prospectus so I can read up on what they say about event weeks, how much they will sell vs. remain for float, etc.?  If it is too large to send via email, I can provide a Dropbox or other file transfer method to send a large file.  

Or, alternatively, a direct link to the latest WLR prospectus would also suffice.

Thanks!


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Yes this can be done; I did this for the people who contracted to buy our WKORV unit.   However, you are unfortunately outside the home resort priority period of 8-12 months to book President's Day 2014.  Any reservation made after the 8 month window closes is considered a StarOption reservation, and I don't believe those can be transferred upon resale because you won't be in SVN.  I could be wrong about that, so do check with Starwood first.



I just spoke to Starwood and they said that any reservations made by the previous owner would not be valid once the transfer of ownership is completed.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> OK, I just got off the phone with Starwood and was told the following, which hopefully will clarify things:
> 
> 1.  100% of weeks 51 and 52 are sold as "event weeks" which get automatically reserved / booked for those who purchased those weeks.  So even if you are a Platinum Plus owner at Westin Lagunamar, if you don't have one of those two weeks, and you plan to travel during that time period, you are likely to be out of luck.  The only way a Platinum Plus owner could book there during those weeks, if they don't have one of those two weeks specifically, is if someone cancelled their Christmas week reservation.
> 
> ...



Wow, this is more confusing than it really needs to be.  I saw something else that said:

Up to 50% of Phase 1 units can be sold as event weeks.  Event weeks being defined as weeks 51, 52, and week 7, which is President's Day or Fiesta Week.  (Note that other TUGGERs have indicated they still see availability for week 7 using StarOptions.)

All Phase 2 units weeks 51, 52, and 7 are being sold as event weeks.  So unless those reservations are cancelled, that inventory won't exist.

Of course, this begs the question, for the Westin Lagunamar:
1.  What is Phase 1 and Phase 2?  How many units in each?
2.  What percent of event weeks have been sold thus far?

I have to say, Starwood should flag weeks 51-52 and 7 (or whatever the event weeks are for a particular property) in their StarOptions charts and/or charts that indicate Platinum vs. Gold, because it is quite misleading.  Reserving 100% of inventory in a phase for event weeks means that my Platinum Plus does NOT float for weeks 51, 52, and 7 in that inventory, contrary to the charts.  Kind of sleazy tactics, if you ask me.


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## jarta (Jul 19, 2013)

> I have to say, Starwood should flag weeks 51-52 and 7 (or whatever the event weeks are for a particular property) in their StarOptions charts and/or charts that indicate Platinum vs. Gold, because it is quite misleading. Reserving 100% of inventory in a phase for event weeks means that my Platinum Plus does NOT float for weeks 51, 52, and 7 in that inventory, contrary to the charts. Kind of sleazy tactics, if you ask me.



From the StarOption chart found on mystarcentral.com:  

"Note: Your villa description may vary from the Starwood Vacation Networksm program villa designation on this chart. Refer to your Use Notification document for details regarding your Villa type and StarOptions. Information on this chart is subject to the Starwood Vacation Network program rules. Check-in days may vary; please call Owner Services for details.

*Certain weeks shown may be sold exclusively as Event or Ultra Premium Weeks. Therefore, the availability of these weeks for reservation may be limited.* The StarOptions values represented are effective with the 2012 Use Year and replace all previously dated StarOptions charts. StarOptions values are subject to change."

Each resort has different provisions concerning Event Weeks and Ultra Premium Weeks.  I think the above disclosure (made throughout the StarOptions Chart) is pretty sufficient to let people know that Event Weeks and Ultra Premium Weeks can cause availability problems.  Don't know how you missed it.  If you think it's sleazy practices by Starwood, please don't buy.   Salty


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

jarta said:


> From the StarOption chart found on mystarcentral.com:
> 
> "Note: Your villa description may vary from the Starwood Vacation Networksm program villa designation on this chart. Refer to your Use Notification document for details regarding your Villa type and StarOptions. Information on this chart is subject to the Starwood Vacation Network program rules. Check-in days may vary; please call Owner Services for details.
> 
> ...



I didn't miss it, but there is a difference between presenting something in a way that is transparent, vs. in a way that is more to cover your butt and give the illusion that all Platinum Plus weeks are equivalent.  It would have been extremely easy to put an asterisk next to the Event Weeks.

I am not saying Starwood is doing anything illegal, but that doesn't mean they are doing all they can to be honest and transparent.  

I wonder how many purchasers - directly from the developer - who purchased "Platinum Plus" paid a premium thinking that one year they could go President's Week, another year Christmas Week, and it would be easy since they have what they THOUGHT would make it easy to get those weeks.  After all, weeks 51 and 52 are PP weeks, and they purchased a PP floating week.  If a salesman fails to tell the customer this (either deliberately or out of ignorance), but it is written in legal jargon in a 200 page prospectus, is that right?

I am waiting to get my hands on the prospectus.  Someone in another thread pulled out some info regarding the Event Weeks.  It was interesting that President's Week was NOT mentioned in the prospectus, yet Starwood and others here have said that week 7 is an event week at WLR.  Not mentioning this in the prospectus could be a legal problem.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

grgs said:


> No, you can't change the deeded week.  For a float resort such as WLR, the deeded week is important as that determines the season you are in.  Within a particular season, it doesn't matter which week is on the deed unless:
> 
> --you want an event week (at WLR, those are: 7, 51, & 52)
> 
> ...



According to the WLR prospectus, to be specific, page 25, President's Week is NOT an Event Week.  Even though Starwood told me on the phone it is.

To quote the April 2009 Cancun book from page 25:

"Currently the only Event Weeks designated are Christmas Week and New Year's Week.  These weeks shall be designated on the Vacation Calendar."

Does anyone know when President's Week become an Event Week, and in what document this is conveyed?


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## YYJMSP (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> I wonder how many purchasers - directly from the developer - who purchased "Platinum Plus" paid a premium thinking that one year they could go President's Week, another year Christmas Week, and it would be easy since they have what they THOUGHT would make it easy to get those weeks.  After all, weeks 51 and 52 are PP weeks, and they purchased a PP floating week.  If a salesman fails to tell the customer this (either deliberately or out of ignorance), but it is written in legal jargon in a 200 page prospectus, is that right?
> 
> I am waiting to get my hands on the prospectus.  Someone in another thread pulled out some info regarding the Event Weeks.  It was interesting that President's Week was NOT mentioned in the prospectus, yet Starwood and others here have said that week 7 is an event week at WLR.  Not mentioning this in the prospectus could be a legal problem.



It's been said many times, it does not matter at all what the salesperson, or anyone else, says, only what is written in the contract, and the documents form part of that contract.

When you purchase (in my recollection) one of the many things you initial says you read the documents.  I'm sure very few people actually take the time to read all 300-500 pages of "stuff" prior to signing.

I'm positive that a lot of first time buyers get caught up in the excitement of a vacation purchase and whatever they were "promised" by the salesperson.  Whenever we attend the Owner's Updates (yes, we attend them, specifically to get an UPDATE, which there never is one of), we see so many people so happy, gushing, crying, etc.  I'm sure every one of them just dropped multiple $10K's on something that they won't figure out how to actually use (sadly, we know people in that exact boat).


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

A thorough review of 500 pages of Lagunamar governing docs does not show anywhere that President's Week is an Event Week.  The most recent mention of Event Weeks (from the "CANCUN LAGUNAMAR PROPERTY OWNERSHIP ASSOCIATION 2nd AMENDED BYLAWS (05-9-11)") states "Currently the only Event Weeks designated are Christmas Week and New Year’s Week. These weeks shall be designated on the Vacation Calendar."  

I am still trying to track down a written document that says that President's Week is an Event Week.  

Finally, I have [yet] another question regarding "phases" - does it matter which phase the time share is deeded in?  I know that weeks and unit numbers generally don't matter, but does it impact availability for prime weeks?  I only ask this because in the bylaws documents, "no more than 50% of the Vacation Ownership Interests in each Vacation Week shall be designated as Ultra Premium, Fixed, or Event."  However, in Phases 2, 3, and 4, "the Vacation Weeks including Christmas and New Year’s Day will be sold exclusively as Event Weeks."

The Lagunamar unit I am purchasing is 054748, which would make it a Phase 1  unit.  So, does Phase matter?


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## SMHarman (Jul 19, 2013)

margolism said:


> The Lagunamar unit I am purchasing is 054748, which would make it a Phase 1  unit.  So, does Phase matter?


Phase 1 is buildings 1-9 in the first horseshoe, Phase 2 is 10-14 in the second horseshoe.
Don't think it really matters as the rooms are all pretty identical.


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## margolism (Jul 19, 2013)

Actually, there are four phases according to the Westin Lagunamar prospectus, defined as follows (straight cut and paste):

Phase One Vacation Unit means a Vacation Unit numbered 0431 through 0486; a Vacation Unit numbered 0531 through 0588, a Vacation Unit numbered 0621 through 0686 or a Vacation Unit numbered 0721 through 0786.

Phase Two Vacation Unit means a Vacation Unit numbered 0111 through 0188; a Vacation Unit numbered 0211 through 0288; or a Vacation Unit numbered 0313 through 0386.

Phase Three Vacation Unit means a Vacation Unit numbered 0811 through 0876 or a Vacation Unit numbered 0911 through 0978.

Phase Four Vacation Unit means a Vacation Unit numbered 1011 through 1076; a Vacation Unit numbered 1121 through 1178; a Vacation Unit numbered 1211 through 1266; a Vacation Unit numbered 1311 through 1366; or a Vacation Unit numbered 1411 through 1468.

Does having a "Phase One" room mean that I will have an easier time booking Christmas (if I ever wanted to), since only 50% of weeks 51 and 52 will be sold as event weeks? (And, for the other three phases, 100% of weeks 51 and 52 are sold as event weeks.)


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## YYJMSP (Jul 20, 2013)

margolism said:


> The Lagunamar unit I am purchasing is 054748, which would make it a Phase 1  unit.  So, does Phase matter?



There's something about Ocean Front (or similar term) units only being in a specific phase, and only those who own those type of units can book them during the Home Resort period.

This might impact your decision of buying a unit based on which phase the deeded unit is in.

This is just like WKORV/N.  During the Home Resort period you can only book the exact view/unit class you own.

It's all moot once you're outside Home Resort period and are using SO's, and then the top secret pecking orders kick in for who gets what view/unit.


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## jarta (Jul 20, 2013)

margolism said:


> According to the WLR prospectus, to be specific, page 25, President's Week is NOT an Event Week.  Even though Starwood told me on the phone it is.
> 
> To quote the April 2009 Cancun book from page 25:
> 
> ...



You earlier asked for the difference between the different types of ownership, float, fixed, ultra premium and event.  That is also found on mystarcentral.com User Guide (Home Resort Reservation section).

Float Week:  Owner has to call to make an in-season home resort reservation of the type of unit owned and can do so beginning 12 months from arrival.

Fixed Week:  The ownership guarantees a certain week and check-in day.  And, can guarantee a particular unit number.  The home resort reservation is temporarily, automatically made by the resort at 12 months from arrival (for most SVO resorts; earlier Vistana-developed properties being the exceptions).  However, if the owner does not call to confirm the reservation by 10 months from arrival, the reservation is automatically rescinded and, thereafter, the fixed week functions as a float week for 10-8 month period of the home resort reservation season.

Ultra Premium Week:  The week is a numbered week and guarantees a check-in day for a specific villa type (can also be for a specific unit number).  The home resort reservation is automatically made by the resort at 12 months from arrival.  No call is necessary to confirm the reservation for the numbered week.  You just show up on the designated check-in day for the numbered week.  

(The home resort reservation for the Ultra Premium week can be cancelled and the week returned to the float pool.  I assume cancellations are extremely rare since Ultra Premium weeks are generally sold for primo weeks in the home resort season to avoid availability problems.  Thus, they should be rentable.  Same for Event Weeks if the home resort reservation is cancelled.)

Event Weeks:  The week is not a numbered week.  The deed guarantees a check-in day for a specific type of unit for the week in which the "event" occurs (can also be for a specific unit, IMO).  The reservation is automatically made by the resort.  No call is necessary to confirm the reservation for the week in which the "event" occurs.  You just show up on the check-in date for the week in which the "event" occurs.

I do not believe Presidents Week is an "event" for Lagunmar or anywhere else.  (But, I also have no experience with owning an Event Week.  Few units are sold as event weeks.)  I believe Presidents Weeks (week 7) are sold as numbered Ultra Premium weeks.  (I own 2 weeks in week 7 at Lagunamar regular and Ocean Side [similar to OF at WKORV/N].  I bought week 7 because I might want to upgrade and convert them to Ultra Premium weeks.)   Salty


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## csxjohn (Jul 20, 2013)

YYJMSP said:


> ...(yes, we attend them, specifically to get an UPDATE, which there never is one of)...



If you know this to be true, what's the real reason you attend the presentations?


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## LisaRex (Jul 20, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> If you know this to be true, what's the real reason you attend the presentations?



It's a badly kept secret that these "updates" are merely an opportunity for Starwood to try and lure owners into buying another timeshare. It's also no secret that many owners attend these "updates" for the sole purpose of pocketing the incentives.  

It's hard to muster up much outrage for either side because they both walk in fully aware of the charade, and armed with their own barely-hidden agendas.  

(I think watching the salesmen and the pointsjunkies duke it out would be an awesome reality show.)


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## jarta (Jul 20, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> If you know this to be true, what's the real reason you attend the presentations?



Good question.   Salty


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## margolism (Jul 20, 2013)

jarta said:


> I do not believe Presidents Week is an "event" for Lagunmar or anywhere else.  (But, I also have no experience with owning an Event Week.  Few units are sold as event weeks.)  I believe Presidents Weeks (week 7) are sold as numbered Ultra Premium weeks.  (I own 2 weeks in week 7 at Lagunamar regular and Ocean Side [similar to OF at WKORV/N].  I bought week 7 because I might want to upgrade and convert them to Ultra Premium weeks.)   Salty



This seems to make the most sense, given what both the Lagunamar prospectus and sales sheets say.  It also seems then that the Starwood folks need better training so that they use the appropriate language, and don't say things which contradict what amounts to a legal document.  There is a BIG difference between an Events Week and an Ultra Premium week as it relates to inventory availability, according to the WLR prospectus.  

For EVENT Weeks:
- No more than 50% of phase 1 can be sold
- 100% of phase 2, 3, and 4 events weeks will be sold exclusively as events weeks
NET: For Plat Plus floaters, a very limited number of rooms available for Christmas and New Years, since approximately 13-14% of total resort rooms will be available for plat plus floaters. (Half of one phase.)

For ULTRA PREMIUM Weeks:
- No more than 50% of phase 1, 2, 3, and 4 can be sold
NET: Much more inventory potential, since no more than half of all the resort rooms  can be sold as ultra premium.


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## jarta (Jul 20, 2013)

^^^  As you are finding out, the Starwood system is a complicated system and there is a learning curve.  The learning curve applies to owners (most don't understand what they bought), TUG members (experts in II trading and basic float and fixed usage but mostly clueless for the unusual week ownerships), and even the Owner Services representatives who must keep it all straight.  Much more experienced and better agents on the Elite Owner Services desk.

BTW, all the calls to Owner Services are recorded and randomly reviewed to monitor the job the agents are doing and traceable (for a while) if an owner complains about service.   Salty


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## margolism (Jul 20, 2013)

At least I feel like I am walking into this with a decent understanding of the situation.


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## grgs (Jul 20, 2013)

margolism said:


> According to the WLR prospectus, to be specific, page 25, President's Week is NOT an Event Week.  Even though Starwood told me on the phone it is.



I guess I made a mistake about week 7--my apologies.  I had included week 7 as an event week because it's listed that way on this Jan. 2008 price sheet (linked under Starwood owner resources sticky):

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/DeniseMM/media/WLR_PRICING_January2008.jpg.html

Interestingly, it is NOT listed as an event week on this price sheet from Sept. 2008:

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/DeniseMM/media/WLORPricing_September2008.jpg.html

So they must have changed their mind about that.  In any case, as other have pointed out, the governing docs would be the ones to go by.  I have them at home, but am not there now.  I'll take a look next week, but it seems like you've already got copies.

Best wishes,

Glorian


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## margolism (Jul 20, 2013)

grgs said:


> I guess I made a mistake about week 7--my apologies.  I had included week 7 as an event week because it's listed that way on this Jan. 2008 price sheet (linked under Starwood owner resources sticky):
> 
> http://s254.photobucket.com/user/DeniseMM/media/WLR_PRICING_January2008.jpg.html
> 
> ...



Perhaps they changed the sales docs to reflect that the governing docs do not call out Week 7 as an event week.  Strange though that on the updates sales sheet I did not see pricing for the ocean front rooms or the "ultra premium" fixed weeks.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 20, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> It's a badly kept secret that these "updates" are merely an opportunity for Starwood to try and lure owners into buying another timeshare. It's also no secret that many owners attend these "updates" for the sole purpose of pocketing the incentives.
> 
> It's hard to muster up much outrage for either side because they both walk in fully aware of the charade, and armed with their own barely-hidden agendas.
> 
> (I think watching the salesmen and the pointsjunkies duke it out would be an awesome reality show.)



We've had one or two that were marginally interesting, and worth the hour of my time.

One was just before making our last batch of purchases to get Five Star, so it was useful trying to get them to figure if there was some way to purchase multiple Explorer packages, etc. to take max benefit of the purchase.

One we actually met a really nice salesperson and spent the time chatting about hotel locations, and future destinations for our travels.  Completely off topic, but useful.  We added Prague and Budapest to an upcoming trip because of the discussion.

Of course, other times have been jokes. Yes, I know they are trying to sell something, and I'm up front with I'm unlikely to buy unless you can show me some benefit of additional ownership that has value to me, not just more weeks/SO's.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 20, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> It's also no secret that many owners attend these "updates" for the sole purpose of pocketing the incentives.



Yah, there's that too -- the wife puts up with it as she get a donation towards her spa fund.

The fun is when the 10yr old gets in on the talks, as she understands just how daddy uses the system...


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## Ken555 (Jul 20, 2013)

grgs said:


> I guess I made a mistake about week 7--my apologies.  I had included week 7 as an event week because it's listed that way on this Jan. 2008 price sheet (linked under Starwood owner resources sticky):
> 
> http://s254.photobucket.com/user/DeniseMM/media/WLR_PRICING_January2008.jpg.html
> 
> ...



I'm in shock - proof that Starwood made an error? :hysterical:


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## BT1965 (Jul 21, 2013)

*Need advice*

Hello everyone!

I read all the posts and i still have some questions. I am looking to buy a 2BR, floating wk, deeded, perpetual TM is Lagunamar CUN. The price is 999 USD. I have doubts about the price since it is too low but the seller confirmed it. She has the deed. What I do not know is the difference between deeded or RTU, if all benefits are transferred when it is a resale (exchange with other SPG resorts), if you get points when exchanging or if they are straight exchanges like RCI.

Does anyone here has purchased a Lagunamar TM via sellmytimesharenow.com?

Thanks for the help!


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## jarta (Jul 21, 2013)

> She has the deed. What I do not know is the difference between deeded or RTU, if all benefits are transferred when it is a resale (exchange with other SPG resorts), if you get points when exchanging or if they are straight exchanges like RCI.



The seller has no deed.  She has an Equity Certificate and a title policy insuring the rights under the Equity Certificate (the right to use).

If you buy a Lagunamar week from someone other than Starwood, the right to use transfers.  The StarOption value the seller got by being in the SVN does not transfer.  The StarOption value can be reacquired by retroing the purchased week back into the SVN.  It can only be done as part of a transaction purchasing or upgrading a different week purchased from Starwood.  That costs lots more money.

Without retroing the week, you will be able to use II deposits to trade elsewhere or go to Lagunamar any week in the season you are considering purchasing on a home resort reservation (a reservation made from 12-8 months from arrival).   GLTY!  Salty


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## LisaRex (Jul 22, 2013)

jarta said:


> Without retroing the week, you will be able to use II deposits to trade elsewhere or go to Lagunamar any week in the season you are considering purchasing on a home resort reservation (a reservation made from 12-8 months from arrival).   GLTY!  Salty



Actually, voluntary resale owners are able to make reservations in their season any time there is availability.  They do not have to reserve their villa in the Home Resort Priority Period.  That is an SVN rule, and remember that they are not SVN members. 

(I made the same mistake a few days ago.)


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## margolism (Jul 22, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Actually, voluntary resale owners are able to make reservations in their season any time there is availability.  They do not have to reserve their villa in the Home Resort Priority Period.  That is an SVN rule, and remember that they are not SVN members.
> 
> (I made the same mistake a few days ago.)



By "any time in their season" you also mean no more than 12 months in advance, right?


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## LisaRex (Jul 22, 2013)

margolism said:


> By "any time in their season" you also mean no more than 12 months in advance, right?



That is correct.


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

"Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaRex View Post 
Yes this can be done; I did this for the people who contracted to buy our WKORV unit. However, you are unfortunately outside the home resort priority period of 8-12 months to book President's Day 2014. Any reservation made after the 8 month window closes is considered a StarOption reservation, and I don't believe those can be transferred upon resale because you won't be in SVN. I could be wrong about that, so do check with Starwood first." 

margolism's response to above post:  "I just spoke to Starwood and they said that any reservations made by the previous owner would not be valid once the transfer of ownership is completed."

Lisa,   ...   After you made your statement about 2 matters "home resort reservation" and "cancellation of the existing reservation" followed by the "I could be wrong," the OP called and a response was made.  It responded to your assertion that the reservation would be cancelled upon resale.

The response did *not* say you were wrong or that the non-SVN reservation could be closer than 8 months from arrival at the home resort season.  

It may be the case.  I have all SVN weeks.  So, I have never made a non-SVN reservation outside of the 8-12 month period.

However, IIRR (and I could be wrong), I have never seen any posts on TUG by voluntary resale buyers that they made their reservations at the home resort at less than 8 months from arrival (other than by trading back into the home resort using II and the Starwood preference).

I know the usual float deed guarantees a right to reserve a room in the float season and has no caveat as to resort rules.  But, you think there would be more TUG posts about this ability (subject to availability) being an advantage of resale voluntary ownership.

It's an interesting issue.  Surely some voluntary resale owner knows the answer because it has been tried and works or not.  Please post which it is.  TIA.   Salty


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## hunkyleebo (Jul 22, 2013)

*WLR View Type*



YYJMSP said:


> There's something about Ocean Front (or similar term) units only being in a specific phase, and only those who own those type of units can book them during the Home Resort period.
> 
> This might impact your decision of buying a unit based on which phase the deeded unit is in.
> 
> ...



Is there a view (e.g., oceanfront) distinction at WLR?  Would the "deeded" unit # indicate the view type?

Thanks!


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

hunkyleebo said:


> Is there a view (e.g., oceanfront) distinction at WLR?  Would the "deeded" unit # indicate the view type?
> 
> Thanks!



In Buildings 1, 9 and 14, there is a single tier of 2-br lockoff units right at and overlooking the beach (in the gap of the semicircles in the Lagunamar resort map). http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710819#post710819 

These few units are being sold (at a premium) as Ocean Side units.  They are sold as float units and have their own float pool for reservations.  I own an OS unit in Building 1, week 7, floor 5, units 1 and 2.  I have a 2014 reservation for week 7.  But, because the float pool is so small I am considering upgrading my OS week to an Ultra Premium Week.

All other units at Lagunamar have a pretty good view of the ocean and no view designation.   Salty


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## LisaRex (Jul 22, 2013)

jarta;1500303. said:
			
		

> The response did *not* say you were wrong or that the non-SVN reservation could be closer than 8 months from arrival at the home resort season.



Please read from about post #65 to 79 from this thread.  Apparently voluntary owners have been able to make reservations outside of the 8 month window at their home resorts.  Some even report making reservations outside of their contracted season. It actually makes sense because having to make reservations at 8 months or lose it would be a real detriment to owning.  Some people just can't plan that far ahead. 

It's a shame that there is no official User Guide (that I know of) for voluntary owners.  I keep thinking that I know the system pretty well, but I still get tripped up because my focus is from the perspective of a mandatory resale owner, since that's all I've ever been.  There are plenty of voluntary resale owners, too!


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

^^^   Lisa,   ...   I don't see real clarity in posts 65-79 of this thread on the "less than 8 months from arrival issue" for making reservations of non-SVN voluntary resale weeks.  In fact, DeniseM's post 79 seems to indicate that she was only speaking about resale weeks at mandatory resorts where resale reservations can be made at less than 8 months from arrival due to StarOptions that transfer.

Earlier posts saying it can be done, in later posts by the same posters, seem qualified only to apply to a sale later in the year where the new owner had no opportunity to make a reservation at more than 8 months from arrival in the 1st use year of the voluntary resale.  And, a supervisor seems to have been the one called in who allowed the later reservation.

You are right.  There are lots of voluntary resales.  Most of them are reserved and cancelled as early in the calendar year as possible in return for an II deposit by Starwood that has a longer shelf life.  Not sure how many TUGgers do otherwise much later in the year.

But, I'll back off.  The voluntary float deeds seem to give a right restricted only by availability.  I'll assume you are right and I am wrong.  It doesn't really matter to me.  All my Starwood weeks have StarOptions, are in the SVN and will remain in the SVN.   Salty


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## LisaRex (Jul 22, 2013)

From sptung:



> To address earlier post by tschwa2, it does not matter whether the new owner is going to be part of SVN or not.(snip)... At 8 months or shorter it is open to everyone in SVN but it does not preclude the home resort owner from booking the week.



From C3ONY:



> A friend of mine was able to pay a fee to float his week at SBP into another season, but the reservation had to be made 60 days or less prior to check-in, and based on availability of course. I'm not sure if that is a Starwood or SBP rule, but it makes me believe that it may be possible to float a platinm into a lesser season.



From tschwa2:



> if you are a voluntary resale owner you can reserve up to the day of check in for anything in your season if there is availability.



I have no dog in this fight, either; I'm just trying to pass along correct information.  I hope the volunteer resale owners would know.


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## margolism (Jul 22, 2013)

It would be awesome if a Starwood voluntary resale owner would call Starwood and ask these questions, then post what they learned.

Extra question to ask would be about booking at the respect within 8 months for a lesser period, ie Plat Plus owner trying to book a Gold or Silver week.

Also question about phases one is deeded for.


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## DeniseM (Jul 22, 2013)

This is the problem - When you call you get a bottom level Rep. who may or may  not know what they are talking about, and that makes is difficult to rely on their info.


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> This is the problem - When you call you get a bottom level Rep. who may or may  not know what they are talking about, and that makes is difficult to rely on their info.



So, you'd rather TUG newbies make economic decisions by relying on suppositions from TUG members about what is the case?  

Look, it doesn't apply to me anyway.  I have StarOptions.  I just think trying to get certain information is better than guesses from people who only buy to trade in II (and get very good II trades).  Does TUG even try to obtain good, reliable information from Starwood higher ups?   Salty


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## DeniseM (Jul 22, 2013)

There is nothing stopping Starwood from posting on TUG - input from someone who has the authority to post definitive answers to Tuggers' questions would be more than welcome.


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## margolism (Jul 22, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> There is nothing stopping Starwood from posting on TUG - input from someone who has the authority to post definitive answers to Tuggers' questions would be more than welcome.



I was just going to suggest something like that - it would be great if someone [very knowledgeable / senior] from Starwood could set the record straight on a number of topics.

As a branding and marketing person, this would only increase good will among current and prospective Starwood timeshare owners.


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## DeniseM (Jul 22, 2013)

margolism - I am not a WLR owner, so it would not be very helpful for me to call, but hopefully, there is a WLR resale owner who will see your post and call.  However, as I was trying to say, you can't assume that the answer is 100% correct, because an answer you get over the phone from a low level Rep. is not the same as a published policy.  Good luck!

To answer your question, there are a number of Starwood types who have registered with TUG, and visit here, but I'm not aware of anyone in authority ever  posting.  We have had the occasional rogue sales person, but they didn't last long, so I suspect they were violating company policy by posting without authorization.


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

margolism said:


> I was just going to suggest something like that - it would be great if someone [very knowledgeable / senior] from Starwood could set the record straight on a number of topics.
> 
> As a branding and marketing person, this would only increase good will among current and prospective Starwood timeshare owners.



FlyerTalk.com has a Starwood poster/lurker who regularly answers questions for FlyerTalk members about the SPG (hotel point) system.

TUG has no poster/lurkers that I know of for any branded timeshare system.  I think it may have to do with the reception poster/lurkers would get on TUG.

There used to be some official official TUG poster/lurkers (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51872; http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50; http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100677) and DeniseM used to have a higher up who she could contact as Moderator and who would answer her questions, but not really anymore.   Salty


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## DeniseM (Jul 22, 2013)

Correction:  RCI left some time ago (2007), but we still have Reps for the following Exchange Companies - they are sub-forums of the Exchanging Forum:
Ask Dial an Exchange(DAE) , 
Ask Trading Places International (TPI) , 
Ask Platinum Interchange (PI)

I am not sure who I used to talk to except for Jim (James1975NY) who used to work for Starwood, and posted on TUG after leaving Starwood, but now works for DVC, and doesn't post on TUG any more.  (As far as I know, he didn't post on TUG until he left Starwood.)

Of course I've talked to people at Starwood from time to time, and they have even called me a few times, but I don't think I've ever had a regular "source."


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## Ken555 (Jul 22, 2013)

As much as I like TUG, there is a huge difference between TUG and FlyerTalk. Without knowing specifics, I'd also easily believe that FlyerTalk's membership is exponentially greater than TUG - and I'd hazard a guess that the membership numbers greatly influence vendor participation more than any other factor.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 22, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> As much as I like TUG, there is a huge difference between TUG and FlyerTalk. Without knowing specifics, I'd also easily believe that FlyerTalk's membership is exponentially greater than TUG - and I'd hazard a guess that the membership numbers greatly influence vendor participation more than any other factor.



The about page on TUG says 60K members.

Just below the banner on FlyerTalk's main page it says over 500K users.


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## jarta (Jul 22, 2013)

> Correction: RCI left some time ago (2007), but we still have Reps for the following Exchange Companies - they are sub-forums of the Exchanging Forum:
> Ask Dial an Exchange(DAE) ,
> Ask Trading Places International (TPI) ,
> Ask Platinum Interchange (PI)



All are exchange companies; none are branded timeshare companies.  TPI was linked in my post.  Last post by the TPI rep in the forum was made 4 months ago.

Platinum Interchange was also linked.  3 posts from the PI rep in January of this year.  13 posts in the last year (July-July).  Most say ask the same thing: use the web site for questions of Platinum Exchange.

Dial an Exchange was not linked.  Last post by the DE rep was only a day ago.  It was not to answer a question.  Instead it was to tout the exchange system and remind posters that an exchange company needs deposits to have something to trade with.  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196044

Starwood - MIA; Disney - MIA; Marriott - MIA; Hyatt - MIA; Hilton - MIA; Worldmark - MIA; DRI - MIA and Wyndham - MIA.  Strange coincidence?  

Denise used to post responses she received from Suzanne Clark, Vice President (Starwood) Owner Services.   Salty


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## DeniseM (Jul 22, 2013)

I have talked to Suzanne Clark a few times, but she is way above my pay grade - I certainly can't call her my inside source, and I wouldn't call her to ask an obscure question about how to make a Resv. at one resort.  I don't think that's in her job description.

You were the one who brought up which companies have official Reps on TUG - not me - I was just responding to your comment.


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## margolism (Jul 24, 2013)

*DONE!*

The conclusion of my Westin Lagunamar acquisition...

My "closing" took place through Fidelity Title, the company Starwood said handles the transfers of the Westin Lagunamar property.

The seller and I agreed on the following terms:

Instead of a traditional escrow account, seller would send her completed paperwork to Fidelity Title, as would I.  I would pay seller once Fidelity had all of her paperwork completed and in order, and the Estoppel letter was obtained and checked out, including that I could use the property beginning in 2013.

This morning around 10am I got word that the seller's paperwork had arrived at Fidelity Title.  Fidelity immediately requested the Estoppel, and got it within the hour.  At that point, I paid the seller the asking price of $999 (a little more actually, since I paid with PayPal.)   The seller then sent confirmation of payment to Fidelity Title, which authorized them to finalize the transfer with Starwood.  (In essence, the property was held in escrow, rather than the money.) 

The person at Fidelity Title requested a rush transfer on my behalf.  I just got an email a few minutes ago saying the transfer was COMPLETED.  I seriously expected it to take a LOT longer - months, not hours.

Using the info they [Starwood] provided, I was able to create and log into a mystarcentral account, which also confirms my right to use the property in 2013.  

Very impressed how incredibly seamless and efficient that whole process was.

Time to book President's Week for 2014....


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## Ken555 (Jul 24, 2013)

Enjoy your new week!


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## margolism (Jul 24, 2013)

*So far so good...*

Using my one hour old ownership:

- Was able to secure Christmas week (!) in a 1BR using the 2013 week the previous owner did not use.
- Still have a studio unit at the Westin Lagunamar available for 2013

- I got the President's Week 1BR unit I absolutely needed
- Booked a separate President's week studio unit which I plan to rent cheap

I can now cancel my $400 a night reservation at the Westin Lagunamar!  

Previous hotel reservation: $2800 for 7 nights including taxes
Time share: $2592 for 7 nights, including purchase price, closing costs, and 2014 maintenance


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## LisaRex (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm so happy it worked out so well for you.  Congratulations!


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## grgs (Jul 24, 2013)

margolism said:


> Using my one hour old ownership:
> 
> - Was able to secure Christmas week (!) in a 1BR using the 2013 week the previous owner did not use.



Congrats!  I love WLR and hope you have many great trips there.

Also, thanks for sharing regarding the Xmas week.  I knew it was technically possible to reserve this week as a Plat float owner since not all were sold as event weeks.  I just wasn't sure if it would be possible in reality.  Looks like it is!

Glorian


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## margolism (Jul 27, 2013)

Also demonstrates ability for voluntary resale owners to:

- Book at home resort outside of the 12-8 month priority window.  I booked the Xmas week around five months in advance.
- Book an event week (if available) as a Platinum Plus owner, even if you do not own an Event week

I deposited the 2013 studio side with II for use as a trader at a later date.


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