# Home resort differences and Wyndham Club Access points



## FL Guy (Jun 3, 2013)

I do not currently own a TS, but am considering a purchase and have been following some eBay auctions of Wyndham resorts.  I have noticed auctions for Bonnet Creek units, surrounded by Disney World property, sell much higher than many other locations.  I am aware of the APR advantage for months 13-11 at your home resort, but if this were not a concern, are there any other advantages or disadvantages of owning Bonnet Creek as your home resort as compared to a similar number of points at another resort for a much lower (or free) selling price?  

Also, the Wyndham Club Access points typically sell for considerably less on eBay than similar points at Bonnet Creek.  Since Bonnet Creek is one APR resorts for Wyndham Club Access, is there any justification to pay the higher purchase for Bonnet Creek?  Wouldn't you be better off to buy Wyndham Club Access and have APR at Bonnet along with all the other resorts it includes?  Am I missing something?  

Thanks!


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## Pietin (Jun 3, 2013)

Good question.  Here my attempt at answering it.  
Point are points* at 10 months (*there is a whole discussion in this but for the most part it is true.)

The APR is important if you want a specific time and room type at some resorts.    We have never had a hard time getting what we want at Bonnet Creek between 10 and 7 months.  At about the 7 months the pickin get a little slim but we go for the Holidays.  Spring break is similar.  The rest of the year the resort seems to be pretty open, even Summer.    

Club Wyndham Access (CWA) point have 13 month APR at about 60 resort but not APR is the same.  The APR associated with CWA is not APR to the whole resort.  It is a proportional APR to the number of CWA points associated to that resort.    So there may be room open to reserve for owner who have deeded points at the resort, they may not be room to reserve for owner of CWA points.  And to my understanding, at them months, even though there were no CWA reservations available during the APR, there may be reservations available to CWA points as the resort is opened to all points owners. 

Not all points have the same maintenance fees.    This is a factor in ownership.  Bonnet Creek has a lower maintenance than Glacier Canyon but is higher than Sedona.  Fixed week deeds that have been converted to points can make the maintenance fee math even more complicated.  Some of the eBay no sellers fall into this high points to maintenance fee ratio.  

As Bonnet Creek pulling high resale values, the resort always seems too.  I think, in my own opinion that is because of the location.   It is the only deeded property that you could buy on Disney*.  (* While there is some discussion that Bonnet Creek is not really on Disney property and  there is now a housing development on Disney with house starting in $8 million range.)   At least that is my reasoning to want to buy at Bonnet Creek.  

I am not in the position to pay the extra premium to buy there yet.  I will wait a bit.  Prices also seem to go up in the Summer and down in the Fall, so I will watch again this year to see if we will purchase there.  Last year we opted to buy at Glacier Canyon instead.  We got a great deal and we wanted the ARP to reserve there.  

Any way I hope that helps. 

Steve


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## smurfyblue (Jun 3, 2013)

I too would like to know more about club access. Like you, ARP is quite irrelevant to me, I cant plan anything 13 months ahead. The most I can do is start thinking about vacation 6 months out. However i still like the idea of owning a deed. 

I was tempted to buy the 64k club access deal on ebay and so I search the forum for posts. however I have this sneaky feeling that club access is basically passing of more power to wyndham. They will control what you have or dont have.   What i gather is that with club access is like buying into a club & the MF as your club dues, with club access you dont have a deed. So basically you dont own anything but the commitment to pay MF and service charges. Not much different from buying at one resort but I guess i like the idea of owning a deed and being able to vote on my TS board. Though I wonder if club access points trade better in RCI... 

I own at bonnet creek. i was about to put it (and my other TS) up for sale to buy at Grand desert cause i see myself going to Vegas more than Florida. But after looking at how properties sell in the resale market, i have decided to keep my bonnie & myrtle, they are pretty good deeds to have.

I guess i didn't help you much just the POV of 1 BC owner. Overall club access seems like a good deal cause your MF will be an across board average of all the properties in it and the ARP which is not a deal for you, However if you think of it in terms of virtual property to deeded property... well i will go for a deed. I may be wrong in my assumption.


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## FL Guy (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks Steve!  My work vacation time is pretty flexible, and I typically don't schedule vacations more than 4 - 5 months in advance.  So I am not seeing any benefit for me of paying a premium price for Bonnet Creek points.  I think I would be better off finding someone "giving away" the number of points at another resort.  Also, since I live 45 minutes away from Bonnet Creek, I honestly would not stay there very often.  

As to Bonnet Creek not really being on Disney property, that is true.  The land where Bonnet Creek was built was a large parcel of land where the land owners refused to sell to Disney when they were secretly aquiring most of the acreage which became Walt Disney World.  The land parcel where Bonnet Creek is located is completed surrounded by property owned by Disney, but it is not technically "on Disney property".


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## mlrassociates (Apr 29, 2014)

*Club Wyndham Access vs Bonnet Creek Deed*

Wyndham recently contacted me about purchasing CWA and trading in my Bonnet Creek deed.  I was always told to hang on to my deed because it was worth lots of money, however, maintenance costs continue to rise and I'm a single mom trying to save money.  They sent me all the paperwork and are only giving me about $30K for my bonnet creek deed.  My question is, does anyone think it's smart to go with the CWA and trade in my bonnet creek deed, or should i hang onto it becuase in the long run it will be worth more?  Please help!!


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## scootr5 (Apr 29, 2014)

mlrassociates said:


> Wyndham recently contacted me about purchasing CWA and trading in my Bonnet Creek deed.  I was always told to hang on to my deed because it was worth lots of money, however, maintenance costs continue to rise and I'm a single mom trying to save money.  They sent me all the paperwork and are only giving me about $30K for my bonnet creek deed.  My question is, does anyone think it's smart to go with the CWA and trade in my bonnet creek deed, or should i hang onto it becuase in the long run it will be worth more?  Please help!!



Without knowing any specifics, your Bonnet Creek deed is not worth anywhere near $30K on the resale market (387,000 point contract recently sold on ebay for about $1800).

Wyndham is giving you that towards a new purchase. Do you want to give them even more money for something that will be worth less than 10% of what you spend when you go to resell it?


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## Roger830 (Apr 29, 2014)

I'm a believer in buying where you want to stay.

A problem that I have with club access is comprehending how the MF can be the mean of properties owned when there is an additional management fee of about $0.50 per 1000 points. I would think that the fee would be above average, unless there are a large amount of low MF units in the mix.

Low cost units are newer units with high point values. My concern is if this is true, that there are a lot of new units in the trust, then perhaps those low MF units could be sold and replaced with high MF units.

It's my understanding that Wyndham doesn't sell older fixed week units, so there must be an agreement that foreclosed old units would go into the trust, thus raising the average over time.

This is just a suspicion, but it's enough to keep me away from WCA.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 29, 2014)

Roger830 said:


> I'm a believer in buying where you want to stay.
> 
> A problem that I have with club access is comprehending how the MF can be the mean of properties owned when there is an additional management fee of about $0.50 per 1000 points. I would think that the fee would be above average, unless there are a large amount of low MF units in the mix.
> 
> ...



I highlighted a TRUE statement as I own at several older resorts which were SOLD as fixed week intervals. I own multiple deeded Fixed Weeks at several of those older resorts - in very HIGH SEASON time. I have sold several for MORE money than I paid at the time on the resale market. The non-prime time weeks get abandoned and eventually end up in CWA. Yes, the MFs are getting paid to the HOA's ... but CWA owners whine about not being able to reserve the BEST PRIME WEEKS. And I can sell almost every one of my Fixed Weeks by just floating the resort pool and offering the week for sale.

CWP or CWA fee is about 56-58 cents per 1K of points now. Adds about $79-86 onto each week's reservation (1bdr unit) over the MFs for the "priviledge" of using points and your "free" external exchange club.


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## uscav8r (May 2, 2014)

Roger830 said:


> I'm a believer in buying where you want to stay.
> 
> A problem that I have with club access is comprehending how the MF can be the mean of properties owned when there is an additional management fee of about $0.50 per 1000 points. I would think that the fee would be above average, unless there are a large amount of low MF units in the mix.
> 
> ...



I don't know what you mean by the additional management fee. CWA is subject to the same $.57/1000 points Program Fee that owners of CWPlus "deeded" UDI resorts pay. I don't have any CWA points, but all those CWA owners who have posted their mf have not mentioned an additional CWA-specific management or HOA fee. Is there a reference that identifies this mystery fee?

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201233 (see posts 22 and 29)

All my HOA fees are lower than the aggregated CWA HOA fee, which tells me the CWA trust has some more expensive resorts in its portfolio (which obviously assumes no additional underlying management fee). 

From the reports of others, it seems Wyndham is trying to get more deeds INTO CWA rather than trying to SELL what is already in the trust.


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## uscav8r (May 2, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> I highlighted a TRUE statement as I own at several older resorts which were SOLD as fixed week intervals. I own multiple deeded Fixed Weeks at several of those older resorts - in very HIGH SEASON time. I have sold several for MORE money than I paid at the time on the resale market. The non-prime time weeks get abandoned and eventually end up in CWA. Yes, the MFs are getting paid to the HOA's ... but CWA owners whine about not being able to reserve the BEST PRIME WEEKS. And I can sell almost every one of my Fixed Weeks by just floating the resort pool and offering the week for sale.
> 
> CWP or CWA fee is about 56-58 cents per 1K of points now. Adds about $79-86 onto each week's reservation (1bdr unit) over the MFs for the "priviledge" of using points and your "free" external exchange club.



That $85 for a week pales in comparison the the $209-219 reservation fee that "free" external exchange club charges for a week! 

While not a fixed week guy, I haven't yet been convinced to jump into CWA. It sounds like it is improving as time goes by.


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## Vacationfuntips (May 2, 2014)

A link that I saved for an article about the history of the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Property.

Wyndham Bonnet Creek is one of my favorite timeshare properties.  I am an owner there too.

http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html

Cynthia T


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## Rent_Share (May 2, 2014)

FL Guy said:


> Thanks Steve! My work vacation time is pretty flexible, and I typically don't schedule vacations more than 4 - 5 months in advance. So I am not seeing any benefit for me of paying a premium price for Bonnet Creek points. I think I would be better off finding someone "giving away" the number of points at another resort. Also, since I live 45 minutes away from Bonnet Creek, I honestly would not stay there very often. .



If you can't schedule at 10 months you should be a renter not an owner


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## Roger830 (May 2, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> I don't know what you mean by the additional management fee. CWA is subject to the same $.57/1000 points Program Fee that owners of CWPlus "deeded" UDI resorts pay.



There is an additional management fee for the trust. It might not be $0.50, I could have been thinking of the program fee.

The way that I see CWA trust, it's similar to a stock market exchange traded fund. A bank holds the assets as stated in the Wyndham manual.

In a stock traded fund, assets move in and out of the trust. If a large number of trust owners sell, then the trust sells some stock. Conversely, if a large number buy, stock is purchased.   

I would assume the CWA is fluid in a similar fashion. I'm only suggesting that if the trust is holding new deeds, those deeds could eventually be replaced by old deeds. Wyndham has to pay MF on unsold units. Why not park them in the trust and let somebody else pay?


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## lcml11 (May 2, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> If you can't schedule at 10 months you should be a renter not an owner



Could be wise advise, a long term arrangement with a VIP owner who has excess points could put you way ahead.  Can use my access to the Wyndham site to give you some examples of what could be done at places and time frames you want to go.

Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
Unit type:
2 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
05/13/2014
Length of stay:
5 nights


    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.
    Wyndham managed
    Transaction Combines Two Reservations and May Require a Room Change
    May require room change


Unit is available for: 14m 40s
Help

This reservation is being made within the Express Reservation period.
Help
This transaction combines two reservations, which you must complete separately.
	Check-In 	Nights 	Unit Type 	Points Required
Reservation #1 	05/13/2014 	3 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	13,500
Reservation #2 	05/16/2014 	2 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	25,500
Summary	05/13/2014	5	2 Bedroom Deluxe	39,000

Here is a example.  Pick you dollar per thousand that you would be willing to pay for it.  At $8 dollars per thousand points, no guest pass or reservation transaction fee, I think many people with excess points would go for it.   This would be $312 dollars for the five night stay.

I do not own at Bonnet Creek, if someone that does could post their MF plus program fee cost, that would be a cost comparator for the 5 nights.


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## vacationhopeful (May 2, 2014)

Roger830 said:


> ...... I'm only suggesting that if the trust is holding new deeds, those deeds could eventually be replaced by old deeds. Wyndham has to pay MF on unsold units. Why not park them in the trust and let somebody else pay?



Wyndham SELLS CWA and when inventory is SOLD, gets the older HOAs to sell them deeds at $1 each when needed. Consider it like the manufacturing industry's JUST IN TIME inventory holding.

The individual HOAs and the HOA's owners - pay the costs of foreclosure and MFs unpaid ---- Wyndham Vacation Ownership pays JUST $1 per deed.


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## lcml11 (May 2, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Wyndham SELLS CWA and when inventory is SOLD, gets the older HOAs to sell them deeds at $1 each when needed. Consider it like the manufacturing industry's JUST IN TIME inventory holding.
> 
> The individual HOAs and the HOA's owners - pay the costs of foreclosure and MFs unpaid ---- Wyndham Vacation Ownership pays JUST $1 per deed.



This is my understanding of what happened at Westwinds awhile back except they would buy in groups of 20 or 25 if I remember right.  HOA was not permitted to cherry pick the good time frames.  The HOA would try and contact deeds in default and work out a give back to the HOA.


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## vacationhopeful (May 2, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> This is my understanding of what happened at Westwinds awhile back except they would buy in groups of 20 or 25 if I remember right.  HOA was not permitted to cherry pick the good time frames.  The HOA would try and contact deeds in default and work out a give back to the HOA.



And what difference does your info provide ... the HOAs pay all the costs to foreclosure, pay for the entire length of time to HOLD the deed, is NOT ALLOWED to sell ANY deed to anyone else (exclusive contract to WVO) until Wyndham Vacation Ownership (whatever or which ever department like CWA's trust) requests A DEED or A BLOCK OF DEEDS.

MY POINT was Wyndham Vacation Ownership NEVER pays any MAINTENANCE FEES of the HOA owned DEEDS.

I was clarifying Roger830 post on who pays for deeds held by the HOA as they are transferred to the CWA TRUST (and hence, the members of the CWA Trust).


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## lcml11 (May 2, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> And what difference does your info provide ... the HOAs pay all the costs to foreclosure, pay for the entire length of time to HOLD the deed, is NOT ALLOWED to sell ANY deed to anyone else (exclusive contract to WVO) until Wyndham Vacation Ownership (whatever or which ever department like CWA's trust) requests A DEED or A BLOCK OF DEEDS.
> 
> MY POINT was Wyndham Vacation Ownership NEVER pays any MAINTENANCE FEES of the HOA owned DEEDS.
> 
> I was clarifying Roger830 post on who pays for deeds held by the HOA as they are transferred to the CWA TRUST (and hence, the members of the CWA Trust).



You are simply wrong.  I bid against Wyndham Corporate for a decent Westwinds week and beat their 1 dollar price and Wyndham sold it to me.  The benifit from buying from Wyndham for this type of deed is that they are VIP eligible points where re-sale contracts are not.  My total cost for the decent Westwinds week was under $1,000 dollars.

Apparently, the point that Wyndham Corporate has a fiduciary duty to the HOA was overlooked in your posts.

Buy a re-sale deed through Wyndham does sometimes make sense.  A point sometimes overlooked in the Wyndham Timeshare re-sale market.

By the way, this was a fixed week that I later converted to points so I get the underlying week under ARP if I want it.


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## wjappraise (May 2, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Could be wise advise, a long term arrangement with a VIP owner who has excess points could put you way ahead.  Can use my access to the Wyndham site to give you some examples of what could be done at places and time frames you want to go.
> 
> Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
> Unit type:
> ...



My 510,000 points at Bonnet Creek cost me $2672.40 this year. That translates to $5.24 per 1,000 points, meaning the 39,000 point quoted would cost $204.36. Quite a deal. 

Wes



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## lcml11 (May 3, 2014)

wjappraise said:


> My 510,000 points at Bonnet Creek cost me $2672.40 this year. That translates to $5.24 per 1,000 points, meaning the 39,000 point quoted would cost $204.36. Quite a deal.
> 
> Wes
> 
> ...



You broke the code.  If the VIP Platinum rate was used for your figures the cost would be $102.18 the nightly rate works out to about $20.44.  

Just to clarify, I did not reserve the example nor am renting it.  It is just a example.


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## Resorts2Go (May 3, 2014)

*Get More Advice*

I would have to warn against believing too much hype about Club Wyndham Access.  As a Platinum owner, I have both Access and Wyndham Plus accounts and see the benefits to both, but I think there is one big difference.

If you are able to book 13 months out and use your multiple APR abilities, I think you are in position to take full advantage of Access.  The lower MF's are a given, but due to the lower number of rooms at each resort that are part of the Access program, it could become much harder for you to find a resort to drop into.

The selections with Club Wyndham Plus seem to be much better and easier to use.  Get more advice on this topic!


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