# Any 'Storied Places' owners reading this ??



## GregGH (Jun 30, 2007)

Curious if there are any owners of Private Residence club by Intrawest called 'Storied Places'?

http://www.storiedplaces.com/

Care to share your comments on ownership experiences?  Ease of getting the weeks you want?

Thanks
Greg H


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## oldkey (Jun 30, 2007)

*Looks pretty nice....*

....but surprised that there are not more Intrawest locations like Copper, Steamboat, etc.


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## whatmough (Jun 30, 2007)

GregGH said:


> Curious if there are any owners of Private Residence club by Intrawest called 'Storied Places'?
> 
> http://www.storiedplaces.com/
> 
> ...



I have visited the one in Snowmass, and the 2 BR is lovely and very spacious.  I would also be interested in buying but have been scared off by the reservation policy which makes booking consecutive weeks or concentrating weeks in a given season (winter/summer, etc.) difficult   This would not work for me.  Too bad because the quality and locations are first cabin.


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## TarheelTraveler (Jul 1, 2007)

Just happened to see this from a N.Y. Times Article on fractional ownership:

Last year, Storied Places, a division of Intrawest that builds private residence clubs, halted two projects because of construction costs and lackluster sales. At its Altis development in Mammoth Lakes, the developer was unable to get a guaranteed construction price, a spokeswoman said. And at La Scala in Henderson, Nev., it sold only 30 of the 120 fractional shares it was offering in presales.


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## GregGH (Jul 1, 2007)

It seems to me that Destination Clubs are taking a lot of the fractional business - fractionals need to adapt and change - like offering multiple weeks back to back or allow dogs or do what Aviara did, and just sell single weeks ( or Jackson Hole and sell the whole year ) - or better trading options .... where is this II + Preferred Hotels announced release to match RCI's Registry Collection?

I am having trouble trying to figure out how to search MLS listings to see re-sale values - anyone mastered that art?  The Cdn site is weak ( or I am missing something )

It is always interesting to see market prices on re-sale --too bad DC's limit re-sales on the open market - those smart buggers - 

Regards

Greg


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## GregGH (Jul 6, 2007)

*update on Tremblant Storied Places*

Here are some questions and answers from an Intrawest salesman - FYI - for Tremblant Quebec........



Q- I am curious on the resale prices for Storied Places at Tremblant -  
assuming all the new units have been sold ( true ? ).  

A - Unfortunately not true we have sold aprox 60 chapters of 110 built, 40 chapters remain ( Several are under contact but not closed )

Q - How old are units?   

A - 20 months, I have several personal friends who are owners that love the product and are using space availability on a regular basis! I have spent many of fun nights with them enjoying the services & location.

Q - Is it true that Las Vegas and another didn't  sell well? 

A - Lake Tahoe & Whistler both sold extremely well and are sold out... if not very close. Vegas had some resort master plan issues that impacted the project. The 2 challenged projects are Sandestine and Tremblant, in my opinion both markets were adverse to fractional ownership and we could not solve the Time share objection. Also the original asking price of $230 000 per chapter was not in line with the market. You can buy a nice ski in ski out 3 bedroom for around $400 000 with rental income thus 1 / 10 for $230 000 was seen as expensive. Whistler & Lake Tahoe whole ownership 3 bedrooms is in the multi million dollar prices ranges as such the logic of Storied Places was much more appealing.     

Q - Has this impacted on resale prices at Tremblant? 

A - The resale market will not be a factor until all 110 chapters are sold. The new owners of Intrawest Fortress have ask that we reduce the price to increase sales pace. Thus the current chapter price is $180 000 ( was $230,000) with 2 years of HOA home owners associations dues paid $800 per month for 24 months. The pricing strategy has been very effective.


=====================
Bottom line - still not sure what I want to do - these are hard to trade out of ( 24% trades done I am told for last year ).  The seem to have a fair system of allocation for weeks to book - still would have liked to seem how fractionals hold up on resale in MLS market  place.

More fractional owners feedback would be appreciated.

Regards

Greg H


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## Steamboat Bill (Jul 6, 2007)

GregGH said:


> Q - Has this impacted on resale prices at Tremblant?
> 
> A - The resale market will not be a factor until all 110 chapters are sold. The new owners of Intrawest Fortress have ask that we reduce the price to increase sales pace. Thus the current chapter price is $180 000 ( was $230,000) with 2 years of HOA home owners associations dues paid $800 per month for 24 months. The pricing strategy has been very effective.



This is NOT good news for a potential buyer (or even a previous buyer that just lost $50,000 + $19,200 MF)....are you sure the MF is $800 per month??? (seems high)

Check out The Grand Summitt in the Canyons (Park City, UT) as an awesome fractional condo to RENT units for less than the cost to buy (assuming lost opportunity and mf). Thus, you may be better off RENTING these units for the next 3 years or so until the prices settles (which may never happen).


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## OnMedic (Jul 18, 2007)

We are interested in Tremblant, but not the Storied Places side of things, the IQ (Quarterly) side of things. As for the other DC, I just don't get it! An Intrawest condo-hotel is a real estate ownership, for much less then some DC, and with revenue generating opportinites, and in prime locations. (ie, $100K-$250K for a 2BR Quarter (12-13 weeks) with annual fees around $4,500) We really like staying in the Intrawest villages!

So, this is something we am keenly interested in, and in fact earlier tonight dropped an email to my sales agent in Tremblant to find out if an Intrawest IQ (Quarter) would be right for us with 20% Usage, 20-30% Trade (through Resort2Resort) and 50-60% Rental. Of primary concern is the avilability of the resorts through resort2Resort (www.resort2resort.com)

The Intrawest Hotel Condo ownership is a traditional deed/ownership I am told. The Quarter is priced in our range and the annual Common, Insurance, Taxes etc. are acceptable.

Am I missing something here to think this appears to be a better solution then a DC?


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## NeilGoBlue (Jul 18, 2007)

OnMedic said:


> We are interested in Tremblant, but not the Storied Places side of things, the IQ (Quarterly) side of things. As for the other DC, I just don't get it! An Intrawest condo-hotel is a real estate ownership, for much less then some DC, and with revenue generating opportinites, and in prime locations. (ie, $100K-$250K for a 2BR Quarter (12-13 weeks) with annual fees around $4,500) We really like staying in the Intrawest villages!
> 
> So, this is something we am keenly interested in, and in fact earlier tonight dropped an email to my sales agent in Tremblant to find out if an Intrawest IQ (Quarter) would be right for us with 20% Usage, 20-30% Trade (through Resort2Resort) and 50-60% Rental. Of primary concern is the avilability of the resorts through resort2Resort (www.resort2resort.com)
> 
> ...



I don't know if you are missing something or not.. I don't know much about condo hotels, but what is important to my family are these things:

1) Variety of locations and ease of going to the different locations
2) Size of properties.  We want 4-5 bedroom homes so we can bring extended family.  We want private pools, etc.

It seems that condo hotels don't provide that.  That is why DC is better for us.

It seems to me that if you want to go to the same place every year, several times a year, condo hotels are a good solution for that.


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## OnMedic (Jul 18, 2007)

NeilGoBlue said:


> I don't know if you are missing something or not.. I don't know much about condo hotels, but what is important to my family are these things:
> 
> 1) Variety of locations and ease of going to the different locations
> 2) Size of properties.  We want 4-5 bedroom homes so we can bring extended family.  We want private pools, etc.
> ...




I think you nailed the primary difference... privacy of a home vs. a timeshare style condo. We like to see the kids share and socialize, and like the activity of a resort type accomodation. With 12-13 weeks, reserving 2 units is not a big issue, but undterstanding the exchange system to other resorts is still the unknown.

Great feedback, thanks!


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## travelguy (Jul 19, 2007)

OnMedic said:


> I think you nailed the primary difference... privacy of a home vs. a timeshare style condo. We like to see the kids share and socialize, and like the activity of a resort type accomodation. With 12-13 weeks, reserving 2 units is not a big issue, but undterstanding the exchange system to other resorts is still the unknown.
> 
> Great feedback, thanks!



Another difference to think about is that most DC properties don't have resort "activities directors" like timeshares.  What the do have is individual concierge services that provide any activity that you want tailored to your families individual needs.  This is great for personalized experiences but may not be good as far as providing social interaction for the kids.  Think cruise ship vs. private yacht.  Having said that, we don't have kids so maybe a DC owner with kids can give some feedback on their experiences with activities.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jul 19, 2007)

DC's with kids is fine depending on the location. They are NOT like staying at Disney, more like staying at a private home. Some DC locations have spas, tennis, pools, beach, workout facilities, etc but they tend to be more upscale and less crowded than traditional hotels.


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## OnMedic (Jul 20, 2007)

OK, the question about exchange availability through Resort2Resort has not been totally answered, but I will assume it is limited because of the following...

When asked about personal usage, here is the reply from a playground agent.

*"The ownership is 12 weeks for each of the 4 owners and 1 owner per year gets 13 weeks.  If the GST & QST are not paid the maximum personal usage is 10% of the time owned (9 days) The remainder must be used for commercial purposes, such as a corporate purchase or rental program.

The rental manager is flexible on the amount of time each owner uses the property, you could rent out 60% and use the additional time personally, note that the taxes will need to be paid on the purchase price."*

So, although it is an active resort/village, unless I wish to pay the taxes at purchase (GST & QST), I am limited. On a quarter (12-13 weeks), at a purchase price of $130K, the taxes out of pocket would be $17,550 (13.5%).

Unless the Revenues balance the cost of ownership inclusive of the extra tax, this does not seem to be a great option for someone wishing to utilize it 9+ days a year. This will be tru of most, if not all, intrawest condo-hotel properties Whole or Fractional.


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## OnMedic (Jul 20, 2007)

I have the worksheet for a Quarter Share currently listed. It has 2006 expenses, revenues and expected mortgage payments all worked out. If you are interesed drop me an email.


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## pwrshift (Aug 14, 2007)

I think the jury is still out on condo-hotels and the financial aspects much like it is with DC's and whether or not they'll implode.  

The first *JW Marriott* in Canada, going in at Red Leaves Muskoka on Lake Rosseau north of Toronto, opens next year and even the die hard nay-sayer cottage people up there are now looking forward to it as they see it take shape.  www.redleavesmuskoka.com

Owners 'share' in revenues produced by suite rentals, even if your suite isn't rented, (the SEC won't allow that in USA condo-hotels apparently).  To help offset or eliminate the costs - condo fees, utilities, property taxes, contribution to pooled furniture, fixtures, equipment reserve (and mtge if you have one).  

You get *50% share* of the revenue pool if you take the option of having *9 weeks a year there*...3 of them can be consecutively in summer.  You get 52% if you take the 8 week option...2 of them consectutively in summer.  54% if you take the 7 week option with 1 week in summer.  

You also get unlimited usage of your suite any time it is not reserved if requested within 7 days ... which is OK as it's a 2 hr drive from Toronto.  Of course, you only revenue share for days you are not in residence in your suite, which means you can increase your share of returns by using it just a few times a year.

While I can't see the revenue share being much in the winter months, I think it will be boom times there from mid-May to mid-Sept.  Time will tell.

Brian


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## OnMedic (Aug 14, 2007)

I just came back from Blue Mountain. There is a fractional planned for the Villiage towards the end of 2008 and initial reservations 2+ years out. The small info/write-up available indicate unlimited and fllexible usage... 

Maybe time to watch the US market hit bottom and pick-up a managed beach condo.

Cheers,


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 14, 2007)

Without getting into this discussion too much....I own a few condo-hotels and I have yet to see any "PROOF of Concept" for any hotel-condos that actually produce MORE income than simply buying a CD or Bond. In other words, show me any condo-hotel that I can buy now (or in the last 12 months) proof that the revenue received (minus all expenses like mortgage, taxes, accounting fees) was more than what you would get if you simply put the money in a bank CD at 5.5% interest. Of course, this assumes that you leave it in the rental pool 365 days per year.


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