# comparing HGVC with Wyndham FSP



## natarajanv (Mar 16, 2009)

Based on my reading form TUG looks like HGVC and WFSP operates pretty much the same way. Both have their own resorts and affiliated resorts (~50 of them ) and you do not need to buy where you have to stay (buy where the price is low and the MF is low) and use their mini booking system to stay in their resorts without the RCI fees.

or am i missing something here?

Thanks


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## Cathyb (Mar 16, 2009)

What you may not know is that the quality of Wyndham does not compare to the quality of Hilton.  It is like comparing a Buick with a Lexus IMHO.


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## prosperitylove79 (Mar 16, 2009)

*wow*

wow - that is a big difference!  I considered Wyndham - but everyone warned me about the quality difference - the are some great deals on ebay and with Seth Nock - not sure how much you want to spend but I can tell you about a 349K point package he told me about...


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## alwysonvac (Mar 16, 2009)

All I can suggest is to do your homework...read, read, read all you can about Wyndham.

Several recent threads come to mind...
Generalities: Wyndham vs Marriott vs Hilton resorts - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93019
Wyndham Presidential Suites - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70160
no more renting-transferring of Wyndham pts. between owners  - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87170


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

I own both Hilton and Wyndham. 

I love Hilton for Hawaii and Hard to get RCI trades
I love Wyndham for the locations, RCI upgrades, and the discounts at 60 days.

There are pros and cons with both.

HILTON
PROs:
High quality resorts, great furnishings, good consistency
Well insured, disasters in FL have had no or very little Special Assessments 
Great Management
Great Customer Service, owner focused
High trade priority in RCI
Access to RCI Weeks and Points
Cash option during open season
Good availability during open season (usually)
Complimentary upgrades (some Elite levels)
Fees reseasonable
Online booking $49 but completely changeable over and over at no extra fee
Fee Guest Certificates (GC)
Most resorts are on a fixed scale of points

CONs:
Too concentrated in Vegas, Orlando and Hawaii
Limited number of resorts available (but getting a little better)
Higher MFs
No Free upgrade in RCI (See Wyndham for comparison)
No discounted in points ever
Higher buy in costs, Platinum (~$1.5 point)
NO real RCI account is provided, must go through HGVC over phone
New trend is that 2 of the last 3 resorts have 50% more points requirements


WYNDHAM
PROs:
Very very flexible, even more so than Hilton
Lots and Lots of locations (77 + 44 Affiliates)
Newer resorts have been opening at a good pace
Have some Urban resorts (Washington DC, San Antonio, San Francisco, San Diego, Atlantic City, Honolulu)
Have some Mega Resorts (Bonnet Creek FL, Grand Desert NV, Ocean Blvd SC)
Lots at availability both planning ahead and last minute
Some very nice, deluxe accommodations
Presidential Level units are equal to Hilton level of units
Discounts on points for units with 60 days of checkin
Complimentary upgrades at Wyndham(VIP levels)
Upgrade permitted on RCI (deposited a studio get a 2 BR)
Very cheap to buy points, 1/2 - 1 CENT per point, may be less
MF are reasonable
Receive a free RCI weeks account, other non Wynd TS can use it too
Online booking available, both in Wyndham and in RCI
Booking Wynd online to get discounts is also available.
Reservation Transactions get certain # free than $30 online, $59 over phone
Lots of sizes of units, vary from Studio to 4 BR Presidential units

CONs:
Hate the Sales/Corporate Staff
They are not overly owner friendly
Keep changing rules, by taking away options that were once available
They are too reliant on Special Assessments
Must call to get VIP complimentary upgrade (it doesn't happen automatically)
Access to RCI Weeks only (Access to RCI points only if you have paid for PlusPartner program)
Allotted # of free GC, but when exceeded, they are $129 phone or $99 online
No standard points requirement (2 BR Deluxe, varies in Prime season from 154K to 275K, views and presidentials are up from that, highest points for a single unit in system is 800K for Presidential 4 BR Oceanfront Upper level unit at Ocean Bvld, SC midsummer)


Split Decisions:
Cancelation policy has pros and cons for both
Wyndham's is better if 15 days out then Hilton's becomes better 14 days to 5 days
Both equal, lose everything after that.

Hilton is a scale, 
31 or > days - lose fee only, all points returned
30 - 15 days - lose fee + lose 25% of your points
14 to 6 days - lose fee + lose 50% of your points
5 or < days - lose everything (fee + points)

Wyndham is also a scale, but only 2 choices
15 or > days - lose fee only, all points returned
14 or < days - lose everything (fee + points)


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## natarajanv (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks a lot Sandy. Could you please eloborate on "High trade priority in RCI". What I see on TUG is people always complaining about HGVC/RCI trades, and wonder why.


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## Twinkstarr (Mar 16, 2009)

Sandy, great analysis of the 2 systems. Bravo   .


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> Thanks a lot Sandy. Could you please eloborate on "High trade priority in RCI". What I see on TUG is people always complaining about HGVC/RCI trades, and wonder why.




If a week is in RCI inventory, HGVC should be able to get it, as HGVC has a high trading power associated with it.

I think there are 3 things that HGVC people complain about RCI.  1) No online trading, they have to call.  2) Believed that HGVC would get them anywhere anytime in RCI, as I said it the inventory is available in RCI and HGVC exchange can get it, but you can't make inventory appear when none is deposited, so that disappoints some.  Some caribbean larger sized units for example are rarely available as a deposit.  3) HGVC would only like you to trade into nice resorts, so that you are not disappointed with the trade.  Rci has internal rating for all resorts, based on feedback from exchangers, and they will only allow you to trade into the nicer/higher scoring resorts.  I have heard that some have been allowed to downgrade, because that is what they wanted, but I have heard others were not allowed.  I have never tried so I can't state from personal experience.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Sandy, great analysis of the 2 systems. Bravo   .




Maybe we should make a sticky out of it.  :whoopie:


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## Bill4728 (Mar 16, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> Thanks a lot Sandy. Could you please eloborate on "High trade priority in RCI". What I see on TUG is people always complaining about HGVC/RCI trades, and wonder why.


I'm not sure of what you saying. HGVC always has been one of the very best traders in RCI. 

The only downside of HGVC is all trades with RCI are fixed to a pt grid. If you want a 2 bed during red time you'll pay ~5000 pts. It doesn't matter if your trading into Orlando (a very easy trade) or Hawaii (which can be a very hard trade).

With a non HGVC RCI week, you can often get great trades with a so so trader ( a so called trade up) You can't do that with HGVC because of the grid.


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## lprstn (Mar 16, 2009)

I'd say if you want plush high scale timeshare with the amenities of a hotel, go with Hilton.

If you want lot's of locations with very low resale entry, buy Wyndham.

If you have a little $ to play with....

Buy both


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

I also got to think about the Elite levels for HGVC and VIP levels for Wyndham but left it out of most of the original post.

I would NOT suggest that you buy from the developer ever to obtain the Elite or VIP.  But that being said I did manage to get Elite by purchasing 14K from HGVC via resale purchases.  They DO NOT allow this anymore, but I did manage to get it before they stopped allowing it.  They have since introduced 2 additional Elite levels, Elite Plus at 24K ownership and Elite Premier at 34K ownership.

I also did manage to buy most all of my Wyndham resale and then made an additional point purchase (<10% of my entire point allotment) from the developer directly to obtain VIP Platinum.  So I have 1,027K per year with Wyndham.  Wyndham also has 3 level of VIP and I am currently at the highest level, which is over 1 Million in points.  VIP is 300K, and VIP Gold is 500K.

HILTON ELITE PERKS I LIKE

What I like about HGVC elite is the Gold HHonors membership.  I travel for work so having hotel status without ever having to travel is a nice perk.  I use Hilton hotels when it is good for the situaion.

I also like the discount NO club exchange fees on 7 day reservations, there is also a discount on exchange fees, $39 instead of $49, for less than 7 day stays.  The 10% cash option is nice, but I have only used it once.  

The higher levels of VIP has things that I would like, like Diamond level honors, No transactions fees at all including depositing and rescuing, update to next best unit type at time of checkin, and 30% off open cash option.... BUT, like I said, I am NOT willing to pay for it. 

WYNDHAM VIP PLATINUM PERKS I LIKE

I am the highest level so I do enjoy these when I get them.

unlimited free transactions
30 free Guest certficiates (it used to be unlimited, but they recently changed)
At the 60 day mark points required for exchange are reduced 50%.  
At the 60 day mark, if there are larger units available, you are allowed a complmentary upgrade to the next available size.  
2 Reciprocal Advanced Reservation Priority booking at 11 month mark (normal window booking is 10 months, so it give you an extra month jump after home resort owners book but before everyone else books)

I have often go away for a weekend night or 2, paid for a 1 BR at 50% off and then got a complementary upgrade to the 4 BR Presidential.  Now it doesn't happen every time, clearly not over high demand time, like march break, summer break, any holidays, but it sure happens lots of other times.  In 2008 I used 14 different upgrades.  I did not upgrade on only 3 bookings.  But I did travel a lot off season.  The 3 upgrades I did not get for bookings in high high demand areas.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> I'm not sure of what you saying. HGVC always has been one of the very best traders in RCI.
> 
> The only downside of HGVC is all trades with RCI are fixed to a pt grid. If you want a 2 bed during red time you'll pay ~5000 pts. It doesn't matter if your trading into Orlando (a very easy trade) or Hawaii (which can be a very hard trade).
> 
> With a non HGVC RCI week, you can often get great trades with a so so trader ( a so called trade up) You can't do that with HGVC because of the grid.




I totally agree.  You get NO free upgrades in HGVC, you get what you pay for in size and season.  

However there are lots of places, and Bill's example of Orlando is perfect.  You should be able to pick up a non - holiday week with even the lowest trader you have.  Here is where I like Wyndham much better than HGVC.  You can deposit a blue studio into RCI, cost for a 28K deposit about $140.  However you can book a 2 BR Red week with it.  In HGVC that same unit would be 4800 points, which is way over a $140 with anyone's MFs.

A few HGVCs recently got deposited into RCI.  I would use HGVC perhaps to trade back into HGVC as you pay the RCI rate NOT the HGVC rate which is less.

I also like to use Wyndham to trade back into Wyndham.  I booked a Wyndham Kona Hawaiian Village via RCI.  I used a 28K, blue studio deposit, I traded back into a red 2 BR unit.  If I would have done the same trade within Wyndham it would have cost me 231K  Saved myself 203K by booking via RCI.


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## natarajanv (Mar 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> If a week is in RCI inventory, HGVC should be able to get it, as HGVC has a high trading power associated with it.
> 
> I think there are 3 things that HGVC people complain about RCI.  1) No online trading, they have to call.  2) Believed that HGVC would get them anywhere anytime in RCI, as I said it the inventory is available in RCI and HGVC exchange can get it, but you can't make inventory appear when none is deposited, so that disappoints some.  Some caribbean larger sized units for example are rarely available as a deposit.  3) HGVC would only like you to trade into nice resorts, so that you are not disappointed with the trade.  Rci has internal rating for all resorts, based on feedback from exchangers, and they will only allow you to trade into the nicer/higher scoring resorts.  I have heard that some have been allowed to downgrade, because that is what they wanted, but I have heard others were not allowed.  I have never tried so I can't state from personal experience.





Thanks Sandy. So #2 will be true for any exchanges(trading power/value)? 
I read people saying they deposited a red week and pulled in 124K results, vs depositing a blue week to pull in lets say 100K results on the same day with RCI. So with HGVC the CSR should be able to pull in 124K results. Is that a correct statement? Pardon me for asking all silly questions as I am still a newbie and waiting on my HGVC closing.


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## ricoba (Mar 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Maybe we should make a sticky out of it.  :whoopie:



This is an excellent analysis.

I really don't know anything about Wyndham, except we stayed at the Flagstaff resort once, and while it wasn't as fancy as HGVC, it was a great resort and location and the rooms were very nice.  I wouldn't hesitate to go to another Wyndham if they are all like this one was.

Thank you for taking the time to do this.  I agree this maybe should be a sticky and if others want to do the same with other resorts other sticky's can be made, eg Marriott or Hyatt etc.

Thanks for your work.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 16, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> Thanks Sandy. So #2 will be true for any exchanges(trading power/value)?
> I read people saying they deposited a red week and pulled in 124K results, vs depositing a blue week to pull in lets say 100K results on the same day with RCI. So with HGVC the CSR should be able to pull in 124K results. Is that a correct statement? Pardon me for asking all silly questions as I am still a newbie and waiting on my HGVC closing.



You must be talking about the new online week program that shows the hit count for the number of available exchanges with a deposit.

The answer for hilton is basically NO. HGVC will pull all 124K but because HGVC will filter out lower quality resorts and offer you the cream of the crop subset of that, not all 124K will be available to you.  I doubt if HGVC will ever tell you that number.  Online RCI Weeks will but they also won't filter out poorer resort either.

Another plus I forgot to add is that HGVC can be used in either the weeks or the points system in RCI, you have access to both.


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## Talent312 (Mar 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Another plus I forgot to add is that HGVC can be used in either the weeks or the points system in RCI, you have access to both.



As you say, HGVC can pull just about anything that is _available_.
Some folks have good results booking RCI thru HGVC, and have no complaints.  But it pays to be flexible and not count on a certain place at a certain time. What salespeeps don't tell you is that, in many high-demand locations, owners tend to use their units or prefer to rent out than deposit.  One CSR -- "I can put you in for a search, but I haven't seen a unit there in the last five years."


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## natarajanv (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks once again Sandy. The HGVC members guide in page 30 is misleading by saying that we have access to 3700 resorts world wide. I looked at the RCI directory to see that they have 963 RCI Gold crown and 594 Silver crown resorts worldwide. So, pretty much we only have access to 1600 resorts assuming the fact that they let us in Silver crown.


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## pianodinosaur (Mar 16, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> I own both Hilton and Wyndham.
> 
> I love Hilton for Hawaii and Hard to get RCI trades
> I love Wyndham for the locations, RCI upgrades, and the discounts at 60 days.
> ...



Sandy:  That is one of the most comphrensive and accurate comparisons I have ever seen in this forum.  Thank you so much.

We do not own at Wyndham but have stayed at the Worldmark in Steamboat Springs and what was then the Fairfield LongWarf Resort in Newport RI.  We had an excellent time at both exchanges.


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## linsj (Mar 17, 2009)

Sandy: I appreciate your thorough posts here. You have been more helpful in comparing the two systems than anything I've read on this board.


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## JonathanIT (Mar 19, 2009)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Split Decisions:
> Cancelation policy has pros and cons for both
> Wyndham's is better if 15 days out then Hilton's becomes better 14 days to 5 days
> Both equal, lose everything after that.
> ...


One thing I like about HGVC that is not publicized is the flexible online booking system... meaning that you almost never would have to "lose" points (or even the fee) on a reservation from 30 days up to even 1 day before use.  Instead of canceling, you could rebook them (if at least an equivalent point value) for another stay for later use at no extra cost (considering they are "changeable" or have been made online).  The only time this wouldn't be possible is at the end of the year (November or December) when you couldn't rebook somewhere else because of the time frame (the online rebooking engine will only allow reservations to be moved within the same year).  

I think as far as cancellation policies HGVC has the most generous there is... you just have to know the system.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 20, 2009)

JonathanIT said:


> One thing I like about HGVC that is not publicized is the flexible online booking system... meaning that you almost never would have to "lose" points (or even the fee) on a reservation from 30 days up to even 1 day before use.  Instead of canceling, you could rebook them (if at least an equivalent point value) for another stay for later use at no extra cost (considering they are "changeable" or have been made online).  The only time this wouldn't be possible is at the end of the year (November or December) when you couldn't rebook somewhere else because of the time frame (the online rebooking engine will only allow reservations to be moved within the same year).
> 
> I think as far as cancellation policies HGVC has the most generous there is... you just have to know the system.



I use this all the time.  I think it is great.  It also allows me to shop, meaning I can grab a week, decide if it is going to work for me.  If it does I keep it, it it doesn't I CHANGE the reservation to shop for something else.


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## natarajanv (Mar 20, 2009)

Let me see whether I understand it right:

lets say you have a reservation for 1 week in HGVC hawaii for christmas.. Later in june you found out that you cannot make it to hawaii...and change the reservation to 1week in HGVC florida without paying another res fee? If that is true, it is great....


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## Cathyb (Mar 20, 2009)

Sandy:  Why the huge discrepancy with Wyndham points (saving 230,000 pts going thru RCU instead)?  You would think Wyndham folks would realize this.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 20, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Sandy:  Why the huge discrepancy with Wyndham points (saving 230,000 pts going thru RCU instead)?  You would think Wyndham folks would realize this.



many do 

the issue however is Wyndham has to deposit it into rci and you have to realize it is in rci and grab it

many places you want NEVER get into rci
some that do get deposited you miss matching as you did not have an ongoing search for


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 20, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> Let me see whether I understand it right:
> 
> lets say you have a reservation for 1 week in HGVC hawaii for christmas.. Later in june you found out that you cannot make it to hawaii...and change the reservation to 1week in HGVC florida without paying another res fee? If that is true, it is great....



yes true provided you make the reservation online and you can't change a reservation you made during HOME season


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## lprstn (Mar 29, 2009)

Bottom line for me is, I love all the various locations available in the Wyndham internal system.  I prefer being at the location of choice offered through my system, stay at a decent somewhat upscale place and still have the flexibility to bank if I want.  Wyndham just has more, much more internal choices than Hilton and cost less.  If I want more locations with Hilton I have to bank a week and spend the additional $ in exchange fees.  Now if $$ wasn't an issue I would buy Hilton, Disney, and a Marriott week.  Since $$ is an issue, I will be happy with my Wyndham and Sheraton Vistana (both points systems with a lot to offer).


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