# apparent good news for legacy owners



## siberiavol (Aug 7, 2010)

I am an enrolled member in the Marriott destination club . I think most all owners and particularly legacy owners wanted to be sure that enrolled members and new point buyers would not cherry pick the II inventory.

On the first day of the new points program I requested Harbor Point or Sunset Point for the summer in Hilton Head and was wait listed. Both of those properties have very low point requirements and I own at Harbor Point  in another season. Nothing has come through.

Earlier this week I deposited a week 45 Harbor Point through the new II Marriott account and made a similar request. It was somewhat of a test to see which if either would get filled.

Today I got a fill on my II reservation request. My conclusion is that since II got filled first that Marriott and II are operating quite independently at least as to on going requests. Otherwise wouldn't my points reservation have gotten filled before the II request?

My Harbor Point week 45 was worth 650 points in new system. It cost 1250 points in new system to get a summer Harbor Point. Obviously I am glad the II trade came through first.

So far it seems to be easier to get access to trust properties using points. It might be difficult to get low point properties in their prime season because people won't deposit them.We won't really know about  how many non trust properties will find their way into destination club inventory. Things will be much clearer by early next year. People will have had  to decide what to do with 2011 properties and some properties from Marriott Reward points deposits will will be coming in.

My early conclusion in my situation is to keep low point weeks and try to trade those through II and hope to upgrade. Use the points to get trust locations or non seven day reservations taking advantage of the lower point requirements for non weekend nights.

SEE POST 8. THIS IS BAD INFORMATION. MARRIOTT HAD CANCELED MY WAIT LIST REQUEST BECAUSE OF HUMAN ERROR.


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## GregT (Aug 7, 2010)

That's very interesting and very encouraging -- thanks for testing this!!

Greg


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## puckmanfl (Aug 7, 2010)

Good morning....

That is good helpful info....

Makes sense too...

Why would any legacy owner of a unit worth 650 pts. Convert to points??? This inventory will be used or deposited in II


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2010)

Was the week you received from II within your range of weeks on your waitlist request?

If it is a yes, then the new exchange manager didn't come through. Either they didn't have a request in with II for a week you were looking for, or they were offering one with lower trade power.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2010)

puckmanfl said:


> Good morning....
> 
> That is good helpful info....
> 
> ...



But Marriott could have gotten the very same week from II to fill the waitlist. Why didn't they? They don't need points depositors to get inventory for points.


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## GregT (Aug 7, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> But Marriott could have gotten the very same week from II to fill the waitlist. Why didn't they? They don't need points depositors to get inventory for points.



I have to assume that Marriott has done a significant amount of analysis on week availability and redemption patterns and must believe that they will be able to get the week desired through either an MRP redemption or that will be lots of availability thru II in the future should they elect to put in the trade request.

But I'd assumed (incorrectly) that Marriott would put in a request into II at the same time they'd waitlisted Siberia originally, but then the points request would have come thru before the II request.   It does suggest that a waitlisted person may get their confirmed trade _later _using points than if they'd gone simply thru II (assuming the week received was sourced from II).

Interesting -- this is encouraging for legacy traders but more information is needed to understand how waitlisted requests are handled/prioritized.  

Thanks again!


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## kjd (Aug 7, 2010)

Interesting point dioxide45 makes.  I hadn't thought of it in that way but the dynamic of it makes sense.  That is, point owners once they have points can only take from the inventory.  Legacy owners who trade through II must deposit something in order to get something.  

Legacy owners also have more practical alternatives for their ownership.  Trading within multiple exchange systems like II and SFX, renting the unit, banking it, selling it or mortgaging it are a few of the options that we have.  Some of it can be done within the point system but it's not clear to me if it will be the same as deeded property ownership.


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## siberiavol (Aug 7, 2010)

In response to questions I called Marriott because the dates were the same. They  discovered that two of my wait listed weeks had been canceled. Apparently the VOA had put the request in as a request for thirty eight consecutive  days rather than a request for a week between a date in June and another in July.

They apologized and said it was all their fault. I suggested it would be helpful if they notified us about our wait list request in writing. As it is now we hope there is a proper request in . I am guessing other request have disappeared because of human error.

The VOA said the Destination club request would have gotten the unit since the point request  was in first if it hadn't been canceled by Marriott.

This information makes my original point moot and I am sorry passed on bad information. I did not think I needed to call and confirm my wait list requests were active. I will be doing that periodically in the future.

PREMISE OF POST #1 IS NOT ACCURATE.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> In response to questions I called Marriott because the dates were the same. They  discovered that two of my wait listed weeks had been canceled. Apparently the VOA had put the request in as a request for thirty eight consecutive  days rather than a request for a week between a date in June and another in July.
> 
> They apologized and said it was all their fault. I suggested it would be helpful if they notified us about our wait list request in writing. As it is now we hope there is a proper request in . I am guessing other request have disappeared because of human error.
> 
> ...



Guess it is still good news for legacy owners though  . Since it doesn't seem like the points VOAs have a good handle on things yet. We still really don't know if that waitlist request would have come through. Would Marriott have been actively searching II for that week you were confirmed to? We don't know the answer. They could have been waiting for a points deposit or MRP redemption like GregT alluded to.


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## Beverley (Aug 7, 2010)

I thought the inventory was different.  I thought requests using points pulled from inventory received from 1) Marriott Reward point deposits, 2) destination point deposits, 3) unsold inventory, 4) some units Marriott may own as a result of foreclosures  ... I did not think Marriott was pulling from II to fill point requests.  

It seems that some posts are saying they do pull from II and fill the one with the earlier requested date??

Comments welcome.

Beverley


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## Beverley (Aug 7, 2010)

An addendum to my last post:  I thought they would pull from II to fill point requests that are placed through II but not ones placed through VOA.

Beverley


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2010)

Beverley said:


> I thought the inventory was different.  I thought requests using points pulled from inventory received from 1) Marriott Reward point deposits, 2) destination point deposits, 3) unsold inventory, 4) some units Marriott may own as a result of foreclosures  ... I did not think Marriott was pulling from II to fill point requests.
> 
> It seems that some posts are saying they do pull from II and fill the one with the earlier requested date??
> 
> ...



The exchange manager for the new points program can exchange for weeks in II to obtain inventory for point requests.


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## Beverley (Aug 7, 2010)

Okay, thanks.  So that is when they would give a different week (comparable) to the II pool when taking one to meet for points request.  

Thanks again.

Beverley


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## dougp26364 (Aug 7, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> In response to questions I called Marriott because the dates were the same. They  discovered that two of my wait listed weeks had been canceled. Apparently the VOA had put the request in as a request for thirty eight consecutive  days rather than a request for a week between a date in June and another in July.
> 
> They apologized and said it was all their fault. I suggested it would be helpful if they notified us about our wait list request in writing. As it is now we hope there is a proper request in . I am guessing other request have disappeared because of human error.
> 
> ...




Nothing like growing pains. This is why owners like TUG members enjoy having online access to manage their own requests. It's why I'm waiting until closer towards the end of the year to join. I'd just as soon Marriott work through their growing pains first.


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## rudy (Aug 7, 2010)

*Another Data point:  II vs Destination Points*

I have had an ongoing request since 2009 using a July 4, 2009 Surfwatch 2 bedroom for a 1 bedroom Ko-Olina Feb 25-March 4, 2011 for over a year... no luck yet.  However, when I checked with the VOA to see if I could get that week using  points the unit for my desired week  was available for 3725pts.   Marriott is hanging on to their  inventory for points users and since my deposited week has past, there is no hope of Marriott giving II that week in order to gain access of mine.  I will be depending on a Ko-Olina owner to deposit my week into II.  I could exchange one of my villas for points and just purchase the week with points or I can keep waiting for my II exchange ... for now I will wait for II. 

Clearly, those thay have deposited their week more than a year out( prior to points system) will have a more difficult time making exchanges because Marriott will not only withold their villas for point users but they also will not be willing to exchange their inventory for legacy week inventory because the legacy week has already expired .... so much for depositing early ... a disadvantage this year if you are requesting resorts that Marriott has a lot of inventory..

Other questions that I  ponder is how long will Marriott hold their inventory for the pure points user as opposed to exchanging with II to get high demand legacy weeks?... does Marriott have a windowof time where they have first access to exchange their inventory with II for legacy weeks prior to II ful-filling the request of another Marriott legacy owner echanging with II but not using points?

....still confused about how these exchange systems will all work  together and what the priority order is....


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## siberiavol (Aug 7, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Nothing like growing pains. This is why owners like TUG members enjoy having online access to manage their own requests. It's why I'm waiting until closer towards the end of the year to join. I'd just as soon Marriott work through their growing pains first.



I would be elated if all the bugs were out of the system by the first of the year. I think there will be a lot of requests then as people look for winter weeks in warm climate areas for 2012. The bulk of 2011 winter and summer requests had been made through II before they introduced the new program.

I probably wouldn't wait till December if you knew you wanted to join. There are some time lag between signing up and getting everything functional. At least that has been my experience. This is particularly true of getting the new II account.


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## GregT (Aug 7, 2010)

rudy said:


> I have had an ongoing request since 2009 using a July 4, 2009 Surfwatch 2 bedroom for a 1 bedroom Ko-Olina Feb 25-March 4, 2011 for over a year... no luck yet.  However, when I checked with the VOA to see if I could get that week using  points the unit for my desired week  was available for 3725pts.   Marriott is hanging on to their  inventory for points users and since my deposited week has past, there is no hope of Marriott giving II that week in order to gain access of mine.  I will be depending on a Ko-Olina owner to deposit my week into II.  I could exchange one of my villas for points and just purchase the week with points or I can keep waiting for my II exchange ... for now I will wait for II.
> 
> Clearly, those thay have deposited their week more than a year out( prior to points system) will have a more difficult time making exchanges because Marriott will not only withold their villas for point users but they also will not be willing to exchange their inventory for legacy week inventory because the legacy week has already expired .... so much for depositing early ... a disadvantage this year if you are requesting resorts that Marriott has a lot of inventory..
> 
> ...




Rudy,

This is a perfect example of where the point system will be better than II -- because the Trust is loaded with Ko Olina inventory.    I can see almost any week, any view, at Ko Olina in 2011 (and I expect that to continue in the future).  

Conversely, as you've noted, there is little/no Ko Olina inventory for trading via II -- a crapshoot.

I am trying to figure out where the inventory and how best to access it. 

My simplistic perspective on Hawaii properties I target is as follows:

1) Ko Olina/Kauai Lagoons -- not a problem to get because there is alot in the Trust -- I've seen almost any week/view at Ko Olina available
2) MOC -- accessible because there is a reasonable amount of inventory, but may not be the exact category you want (there is ALOT of variability at MOC, between different buildings/sizes/view planes)
3) Waiohai -- tough trade -- owners control it and exchanges require someone to trade/redeem

Will be interesting to track....

Best to all,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2010)

GregT said:


> Rudy,
> 
> This is a perfect example of where the point system will be better than II -- because the Trust is loaded with Ko Olina inventory.    I can *see* almost any week, any view, at Ko Olina in 2011 (and I expect that to continue in the future).
> 
> ...



When you say you have "seen", are you meaning that you have asked your VOA about specific inventory availability and they have indicated it is available. Online access really isn't available to see anything?


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## BocaBoy (Aug 7, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Nothing like growing pains. This is why owners like TUG members enjoy having online access to manage their own requests. *It's why I'm waiting until closer towards the end of the year to join.* I'd just as soon Marriott work through their growing pains first.



I have been assuming that you need to join sooner than the end of the year if you want to use points in 2011.  This is because the decision to trade a week for Destination Club points must be made by the prior September 30.  Is this correct, or are they giving a grace period when you first sign up?


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## GregT (Aug 8, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> When you say you have "seen", are you meaning that you have asked your VOA about specific inventory availability and they have indicated it is available. Online access really isn't available to see anything?



Dioxide, sorry, you are correct.  I routinely call the VOA and ask what's available because I'm curious.

You're correct, I've never seen anything online, only talked to the VOA about what's available.

Thanks very much,

Greg


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## GregT (Aug 8, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> I have been assuming that you need to join sooner than the end of the year if you want to use points in 2011.  This is because the decision to trade a week for Destination Club points must be made by the prior September 30.  Is this correct, or are they giving a grace period when you first sign up?



BocaBoy is correct -- the redemption period is ALOT earlier than many people appreciate.

Assume for a moment that I want to go to Ko Olina in February 2012.  And that I have a fixed week in June 2012.

In theory, I can redeem my fixed week as late as September 30, 2011 to get points.

However, if I want to get the February 2012 week at Ko Olina, and I have 13 month priority, my redemption decision is not September 30, 2011, it is January 2011.

That's pretty early -- it's doubly difficult if you have to waitlist for a tough trade (Frenchman's Cove?).

Interesting stuff.

Best to all,

Greg


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## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> I would be elated if all the bugs were out of the system by the first of the year. I think there will be a lot of requests then as people look for winter weeks in warm climate areas for 2012. The bulk of 2011 winter and summer requests had been made through II before they introduced the new program.
> 
> I probably wouldn't wait till December if you knew you wanted to join. There are some time lag between signing up and getting everything functional. At least that has been my experience. This is particularly true of getting the new II account.



I'm far enough ahead in my planning, I can afford to wait. I have nothing of real urgency to deposit. I have a 2011 week already deposited with I.I. that will have to be used for a 2012 exchange. If for no other reason I'll have to keep my I.I. personal account open until then. I don't plan on doing anything with my OP week until late this year. We usually LO and reserve our master suite for personal use while exchanging the studio unit. Since it's silver season, that's not a concern until the end of this year. Because we don't typically expect much out of that studio unit, it can wait. 

Before I shell out $695 and allow Marriott to transfer my resorts out of my personal account, I want to make sure as many bugs have been worked out as possible. I want to wait and see if there's any more surprises that we've over looked. $695 isn't a lot of money but, there are other things I can do with that money rather than throw it away.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> I have been assuming that you need to join sooner than the end of the year if you want to use points in 2011.  This is because the decision to trade a week for Destination Club points must be made by the prior September 30.  Is this correct, or are they giving a grace period when you first sign up?



To be honest, I don't care about the bonus points and, I'm not planning on converting either of our weeks to points. I only plan on using the one fee for all services rather than continuing to pay the ala carte fee's. 

People are always getting hung up on the idea that anyone in the DC will convert to points. Why? Legacy week owners can still trade within the weeks program and only pay a annual fee of $169/$199 for all lock-off fee's and exchange fee's. To me, that's where the savings are. I take to big of a loss when I trade my weeks for points for that to be any sort of consideration at this point in time.


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## ricki999 (Aug 8, 2010)

rudy said:


> does Marriott have a windowof time where they have first access to exchange their inventory with II for legacy weeks prior to II ful-filling the request of another Marriott legacy owner echanging with II but not using points?
> 
> ....still confused about how these exchange systems will all work  together and what the priority order is....



I've been pondering this same question.


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## suenmike32 (Aug 8, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> To be honest, I don't care about the bonus points and, I'm not planning on converting either of our weeks to points. I only plan on using the one fee for all services rather than continuing to pay the ala carte fee's.
> 
> I plan on doing the same. My intentions are to "use what we bought" and save a few bucks each year utilizing the "$199.00 yearly fee".
> I really hate to cough up the $1995.00 to enroll, and I'm only doing so to give Marriott their pound of flesh and hopefully bring my four re-sales within the Marriott fold, for my heirs.
> ...


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## JimC (Aug 8, 2010)

I am confused.  The only concession that I am aware of for resale owners is the ability to add the ability to convert to MRPs, but only if the resort offers it and then only at half the conversion frequency.  I doubt that MVCI is going to consider resales a developer sale because you join the DC.  Converting to save on the fees is fine, as long as you realize that those all inclusive fees will increase and will likely be less favorable over time.  The payback period may be quite a bit longer then you anticipate using current dollars.


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## rudy (Aug 8, 2010)

*trust properties & number at each resort?*



GregT said:


> Rudy,
> 
> This is a perfect example of where the point system will be better than II -- because the Trust is loaded with Ko Olina inventory.    I can see almost any week, any view, at Ko Olina in 2011 (and I expect that to continue in the future).
> 
> ...





Greg,  

Thanks for your observations.

As we all try to sort this out is there appears to be some resorts most easily acquired with points (those in the trust) and others ( sold out high demand legacy properties ( Waiohai, Grand Ocean, etc) that one may be  better off using II for an exchange.. or  not...because  will Marriott grab these high demand legacy weels for the points users and your best bet for II will lesser demand, lower point value legacy weeks?  

  Is there  a database that tells us what properties belong to the trust and how many villas at each resort are in the trust?  Has anyone on TUg started a database ( analogous to  Dioxide'e resale database) that tracks Tugger's exchanges via II vs. points where we all can share our experiences with trading?

 Knowleged is power and right now I feel pretty weak w.r.t. Points vs II exchanging.

Best Regards,

Rudy


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## windje2000 (Aug 8, 2010)

JimC said:


> *I am confused.*  The only concession that I am aware of for resale owners is the ability to add the ability to convert to MRPs, but only if the resort offers it and then only at half the conversion frequency.  I doubt that MVCI is going to consider resales a developer sale because you join the DC.  Converting to save on the fees is fine, as long as you realize that those all inclusive fees will increase and will likely be less favorable over time.  The payback period may be quite a bit longer then you anticipate using current dollars.



Regarding your - "I am confused."  No, you're not confused.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 8, 2010)

rudy said:


> Is there  a database that tells us what properties belong to the trust and how many villas at each resort are in the trust?



Check out this thread, it includes information related to resorts that are in the trust.


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## m61376 (Aug 8, 2010)

JimC said:


> I am confused.  The only concession that I am aware of for resale owners is the ability to add the ability to convert to MRPs, but only if the resort offers it and *then only at half the conversion frequency*.  I doubt that MVCI is going to consider resales a developer sale because you join the DC.  Converting to save on the fees is fine, as long as you realize that those all inclusive fees will increase and will likely be less favorable over time.  The payback period may be quite a bit longer then you anticipate using current dollars.


Are you sure about that? I know there was some confusion in the discussion about this, but I didn't think there was a definitive answer as to whether resale owners could trade for MRP's every other year as can direct purchasers at many of the properties (resale owners who enroll in the program). I didn't really care so never looked into it.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 8, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Are you sure about that? I know there was some confusion in the discussion about this, but I didn't think there was a definitive answer as to whether resale owners could trade for MRP's every other year as can direct purchasers at many of the properties (resale owners who enroll in the program). I didn't really care so never looked into it.



Some contracts offered every year conversion to MRP, an resale enrollee can only convert every other year. So in this case it would only be half the time. But for those that can only convert every other year, it is the same for an resale enrollee as a direct purchaser.


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## 5infam (Aug 8, 2010)

rudy said:


> I have had an ongoing request since 2009 using a July 4, 2009 Surfwatch 2 bedroom for a 1 bedroom Ko-Olina Feb 25-March 4, 2011 for over a year... no luck yet.  However, when I checked with the VOA to see if I could get that week using  points the unit for my desired week  was available for 3725pts.   Marriott is hanging on to their  inventory for points users and since my deposited week has past, there is no hope of Marriott giving II that week in order to gain access of mine.  I will be depending on a Ko-Olina owner to deposit my week into II.  I could exchange one of my villas for points and just purchase the week with points or I can keep waiting for my II exchange ... for now I will wait for II.
> 
> Clearly, those thay have deposited their week more than a year out( prior to points system) will have a more difficult time making exchanges because Marriott will not only withold their villas for point users but they also will not be willing to exchange their inventory for legacy week inventory because the legacy week has already expired .... so much for depositing early ... a disadvantage this year if you are requesting resorts that Marriott has a lot of inventory..
> 
> ...



Hi Rudy - sorry to hear it has taken you a while to get your request. I am not sure either how Marriott used its inventory in the past, and if exchanges to II would have been more prevalent before points. I never took their inventory into account with II, and assumed that an owner had to book a week, then exchange it, and if it matched my request and I had the power of exchange, then I could get that week. I just had a successful exchange to Ko Olina. About 3 weeks ago, I took my 2011, 4th of July Maui 1 bedroom, and put in a request first with II for a 4th of July 2011 1 bedroom at Ko Olina. 10 days later, I got my trade. So, I am relatively certain that week did not come from Marriott, and someone just happened to deposit the week I wanted, and I had the trade power to jump the line and pull it. So hopefully in your case, someone will not be able to use the week you need, and will deposit it. 

As others have stated, it does seem that as points players, if you have enough points, you could work both ends of the system (points and II using request first), and the costs for points (skim, etc.) is the price you pay for cutting out the waiting game with II. I can see where this would be appealing to open up your options. Unfortunately for me, the financial savings is not there as I have 1 week, non-lock off, resale, so the pay back would be never - points would always cost me more. But it would be nice to have the option.

Good luck!!


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## suenmike32 (Aug 8, 2010)

JimC said:


> Converting to save on the fees is fine, as long as you realize that those all inclusive fees will increase and will likely be less favorable over time.  The payback period may be quite a bit longer then you anticipate using current dollars.



Jim,
I'm well aware that the payback will be lengthy. I will only save about $116.00 per year, so it'll take about 17 years (that I know that I don't have) to get my return.
The enrollment is still up in the air (for me), but I'm really thinking about my wife/children that will each inherit two.
However, if my family wanted to trade EOY (for MRP's), somewhere down the line, they could do so. However, at this point, my intentions are to remain a "weeks user"...that's what I bought them for. 

There is also no question in my mind that the fee will go up at some point.
Mike


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## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2010)

suenmike32 said:


> Jim,
> I'm well aware that the payback will be lengthy. I will only save about $116.00 per year, so it'll take about 17 years (that I know that I don't have) to get my return.
> The enrollment is still up in the air (for me), but I'm really thinking about my wife/children that will each inherit two.
> However, if my family wanted to trade EOY (for MRP's), somewhere down the line, they could do so. However, at this point, my intentions are to remain a "weeks user"...that's what I bought them for.
> ...



Will your childern want to inherit those timeshares? That's a hefty ongoing bill to leave someone. Sure the salespeople sell you on the fact that it's property you can will to your loved ones but, I've seen a number of kids dumping mom and dads timeshares on E-bay. For that matter I've seen a number of widows dumping them as they don't travel as much without their spouse and don't want the unnecessary expense.

If it's going to take you 17 years just to break even and, if all you're going to do is trade within the weeks based system anyway, I don't think I'd shelly out nearly $2,000 just to do the same thing you doing now. The only reason I can see for making that move is if you're worried that you personal I.I. account won't be able to get the trades you're accustomed to getting right now. Essentially, paying that money to keep what you already have. I'm of the opinion that you'll still be able to get good internal Marriott to Marriott exchanges no matter if you're in the personal account or in the DC club.


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## JimC (Aug 8, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Will your childern want to inherit those timeshares? That's a hefty ongoing bill to leave someone. Sure the salespeople sell you on the fact that it's property you can will to your loved ones but, I've seen a number of kids dumping mom and dads timeshares on E-bay. For that matter I've seen a number of widows dumping them as they don't travel as much without their spouse and don't want the unnecessary expense.....



Good point.  That is a conversation worth having among family members and their legal counsel.  And probably worth revisiting from time to time to ensure that whatever arrangements made are still appropriate.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 8, 2010)

JimC said:


> Good point.  That is a conversation worth having among family members and their legal counsel.  And probably worth revisiting from time to time to ensure that whatever arrangements made are still appropriate.



I know that my wife loves our timeshares. I also know that she's told me that, if I die first, she'll never use them again as she doesn't want to travel alone. We also know that, even though the kids go with us sometimes, neither of them would want the timeshares after we're gone. Family vacations are one thing when the bill is taken care of by the parents. It's quite a different matter when you have to pay the MF's, learn how to use a timeshare and make all the plans.


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## suenmike32 (Aug 8, 2010)

Doug,
In some respects ...you are absolutely right! My one son will feel that I left him a bill...the other guy understands the concepts of timeshares and travels with his children quite frequently (on vacation), and he will love it! 
These are two different lifestyles...however, if one doesn't want his...he can sell them to the other or  (if he must)...dump it on e-bay. 

None-the-less...I'm not overly concerned about that scenario, as I think Ocean Pointe will draw a decent price (for something the one lad never paid for to begin with).
Regarding the 17 year investment re-coup....I understand what you're saying, but its not all that much about the money. 
What it is about...is that I don't trust the big "M" anymore!
I truly feel that a lot of the reason that "M" went to this system is because they are not selling the $39-75K+ units that they did 4-5 years ago. 
I also feel that re-sales...such as mine and those that many other informed TUG members have purchased, have hurt their T/S bottom line considerably. Consequently..I feel that this new "points program" is a result of the need to eliminate (or at least curtail) the re-sale market for their products.
As a re-sale buyer/owner....I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about how "M" feels about me.

5 years ago..."M" made a zillion promises about re-selling your unit (if your lifestyle changed)....but I as I understand ....their re-sale market is non-existent. Marriott sales people made THAT and a number of other promises that are also B.S... or are non-existent at this time.
As I said....its not so much about the money...but more so to protect what I have from future changes (that we will have no control over).
I'll consider giving them 2K...to get the "R" of my forehead
Mike
PS: I fully understand that the new DC point system will be great for a multitude of Marriott owners. They are movers and shakers that welcome the advantages of trading everywhere, for shorter periods of time (despite the skim)...I'm just not one of them.


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## m61376 (Aug 8, 2010)

Mike-

Your point is a good one. As things settle down and we all see how the program operates I think it warrants what I'm guessing will be a lively discussion here. Do resale owners really have a scarlet "R" and do people feel that they may be more likely to have issues down the road?

Personally, I never felt that way. However, that said, I am a bit skeptical as to how non-enrolled owners will fare down the road- whether resale or direct purchasers. Will non-enrolled owners be "lesser" owners and will enrolled weeks, even when trading in weeks, have any internal trading preference? Will Marriott eventually try to move the majority of internal trades- whether in points or in weeks, to the club trading rather than week trades remaining via II?

Like you, I have no clue, but it is something that I am a bit concerned about. I have 2 resale weeks, but they weren't cheap weeks, so I still have a sizable investment and I am not sure if it is worth the 2k as an insurance policy of sorts.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 9, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Will your childern want to inherit those timeshares? That's a hefty ongoing bill to leave someone. Sure the salespeople sell you on the fact that it's property you can will to your loved ones but, I've seen a number of kids dumping mom and dads timeshares on E-bay. For that matter I've seen a number of widows dumping them as they don't travel as much without their spouse and don't want the unnecessary expense.
> 
> If it's going to take you 17 years just to break even and, if all you're going to do is trade within the weeks based system anyway, I don't think I'd shelly out nearly $2,000 just to do the same thing you doing now. *The only reason I can see for making that move is if you're worried that you personal I.I. account won't be able to get the trades you're accustomed to getting right now. Essentially, paying that money to keep what you already have. *I'm of the opinion that you'll still be able to get good internal Marriott to Marriott exchanges no matter if you're in the personal account or in the DC club.





suenmike32 said:


> Doug,
> In some respects ...you are absolutely right! My one son will feel that I left him a bill...the other guy understands the concepts of timeshares and travels with his children quite frequently (on vacation), and he will love it!
> These are two different lifestyles...however, if one doesn't want his...he can sell them to the other or  (if he must)...dump it on e-bay.
> 
> ...




Joining with the idea that you are protecting your investment is one of the reasons I can agree with for paying Marriott their pound of flesh. Personally, I don't believe it's necessary but, I understand that point of view. 

I really feel this is akin to all the other half truths Marriott sales people have told over the years. They enjoy making resale owners feel unworthy, even though there isn't anything to it.


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## abdibile (Aug 10, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I know that my wife loves our timeshares. I also know that she's told me that, if I die first, she'll never use them again as she doesn't want to travel alone. We also know that, even though the kids go with us sometimes, neither of them would want the timeshares after we're gone. Family vacations are one thing when the bill is taken care of by the parents. It's quite a different matter when you have to pay the MF's, learn how to use a timeshare and make all the plans.



What is the alternative to passing the timeshares on to your children? 

Don't the children get all your assets (and liabilitites) automatically when you die?

Do deeds revert back to Marriott if your heirs do not want them or what happens?


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## dougp26364 (Aug 10, 2010)

abdibile said:


> What is the alternative to passing the timeshares on to your children?
> 
> Don't the children get all your assets (and liabilitites) automatically when you die?
> 
> Do deeds revert back to Marriott if your heirs do not want them or what happens?



No one can inherit a liability. Liability's are settled in probate court, which is why probate court is a very important part of estate settlement. After proper notification, all debt must be presented to the probate court in a timely manner. Legitimate debts are paid out of the assests of the estate. Once that is done all remaning assests are divided up and given to the heirs of the estate according to the will. If you die without a will, the state you live in provides one for you (not usually a very good plan IMHO). If the estate is settled properly, NO debts are assumed by the heirs of the estate.

All states are different but, I know of no state that forces someone to accept an inheritance that they don't want. I don't know of any state that forces an heir to assume the debts of the deceased. This is where a GOOD estate planning attorny comes into play. You need to ask questions and get real answers. Most people go in with an assumption of what happens to the estate after death rather than ask what really happens.

The alternative is to deed them back to the HOA if such a mechanisim is in place or, after the estate is settled, let the HOA know the owner is deceased, the estate has been settled and no more money will be paid against the obligation. It will be up to the HOA to decide what they will do with the timeshare but, it's not the childrens obligation to dispose of or accept the timeshare as an inheritance. Don't make the mistake of assuming the estate and the heirs of the estate are one in the same.

A good estate planning attorny is well worth the price paid, both before and after death.


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