# Very disappointed with Four Seasons Aviara exchange



## vacationlover2 (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi all,

I also posted this in the other timeshare forum but not many people read that so I wanted to post it here as well.

I exchanged into the Four Seasons Aviara about a year ago for March 30, 2012. One of the reasons I did so was for their awesome kids' club, which is included free. I even called before I confirmed the exchange to find out if that was still the case, because I knew Park Hyatt had taken over the hotel.   Now I find out that as of the beginning of this year, there is a $40 per child charge for a half day and $80 for full day. 

I have 2 children, and this is a no go for me. I would put them in there for an hour or so while me and hubby exercised. I'm not paying $80 to exercise. This really stinks.  I called Four Seasons and they said I have to take it up with interval, because honestly, I would not have done this exchange.  I would have gone to Newport Coast instead, since they have a kid's club.  I know I'd have to stay with the kids, but atleast there would be one for them to go to.  Now we have nothing.

Thanks for letting me vent


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## 4dabirds (Mar 27, 2012)

You called the resort directly and explained the situation and they offered you no recourse? There just seems like something could be done on a case-by-case basis by speaking directly with management on-site. We have had so many wonderful vacations there and the level of service was always ridiculously high. One time we called to ask how to turn on the bbq, and they sent over a chef to cook our salmon... you would think the new management would know that was what people are used to and find a way to (at the very least) meet in the middle.


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## vacationlover2 (Mar 27, 2012)

The problem is that the Four Seasons no longer runs the hotel.  So I called Residence Club and asked if I couldn't be granfathered in to the free kid's club since I booked back in June 2011 when it was free.  They said they have no control over the hotel side.  

Of course, I am finding this out 3 days before our vacation and nothing else is available.  I am very upset.  No recourse.  II offered to cancel the exchange and refund the money (of course I have $1400 worth of plane tix I would lose) or give me an AC.  I took the AC even though I won't be able to use it.  I am booked through 2013, lol.


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## UWSurfer (Mar 27, 2012)

Seems to me you have a couple of choices once you arrive.

Check with the concierge and see if they have a list of baby sitters they trust and hire one for an hour or two, costing maybe $20 or so & giving you alone time away from the kids....or,

...work out separately with one of you taking turns being with the kids.

I'd be disappointed too, but I would also try not to let this little wrinkle derail your vacation.


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## LLW (Mar 27, 2012)

UWSurfer said:


> Seems to me you have a couple of choices once you arrive.
> 
> Check with the concierge and see if they have a list of baby sitters they trust and hire one for an hour or two, costing maybe $20 or so & giving you alone time away from the kids....or,
> 
> ...



I agree. A third choice would be exercising less, either taking turns exercising or hiring a babysitter while exercising. Beats disappointing the kids 3 days before the start of what they expected to be a fantastic vacation (because of what you have built up to them?). If you map it out right you shouldn't be missing that many days of workout.

Unfortunately, it sounds you are caught in a tug of war between Hyatt and Four Seasons. Given the bad blood of how the hotel got away from Four Seasons, this is disappointing but not surprising. 

I would also try one more time when you are there talking to a front desk or kids club employee, hoping for the old customer service culture to die hard at the low levels. Although, this might have come up before, resulting in clear, firm instructions to the employees, especially since it's Park Hyatt you are dealing with and not Four Seasons.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Mar 27, 2012)

all four seasons can control are the services it provides

im kind of surprised they havent created a kids club, i wonder if its been raised with owners


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## VacationForever (Mar 27, 2012)

Four Seasons has no control over the Hyatt hotel end.  Not their fault. My advice is to just pay up and enjoy yourselves for the half or full day.  If you normally exercise daily, make that 3-4 days instead.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 27, 2012)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> all four seasons can control are the services it provides
> 
> im kind of surprised they havent created a kids club, i wonder if its been raised with owners



Yes and no.  As with any services provided outside of the resort (and this was the same when FS managed the hotel) there would have been some kind of agreement to provide the services to TS owners, exchangers, and guests and the owners paid for the services as part of the MF.  It's easier to negotiate when the same company is managing both entities.  If FS tried in good faith to negotiate the use of the Hyatt's kids club but were unsuccessful it is out of their hands.


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## carl2591 (Mar 27, 2012)

*Four Seasons Aviara,*

That blows for sure.. Try not to let this spoil you vacation,, this sounds like a real nice place to stay even with the change of plans.. heck its a vacation if you miss a week of hard working out it will not be the end of world.. 

might even be nice for a change and then when you get back home hit it again like normal.. 

do be sure to submit a review on tug for other to see as well.. if this is an RCI exchange do one on their site as well. if you mention TUG at all they will delete the review..

another place is on RCI facebook page. post your comments about the change there as well it might help prevent someone else the disappointment you are experiencing. 

hope it goes well and enjoy..


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## alwysonvac (Mar 27, 2012)

The new fee applies to Hyatt Resort guests and Four Seasons Residence Club owners.

From the February 2012 FSRC newsletter




> *Changes at Camp Hyatt for Kids*
> 
> Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara has been informed by Park Hyatt Resort Aviara that they will now be* charging all Resort guests as well as Residence Club owners a fee for its Camp Hyatt childcare services.* Camp Hyatt is available to children ages 4 – 12 years old.
> 
> ...


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## alwysonvac (Mar 27, 2012)

*Enjoy your upcoming stay*

*Additional info from the FSRC Feb Newsletter:*

Calendar of Events - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_Calendar_of_Events.pdf

On-Site Activities and Fitness Schedule for March - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_March_2012_OS_calendar.pdf

On-Site Activities and Fitness Schedule for April - http://www.1.fourseasons.com/interlude/2012_M02/AVR_April_2012_OS_calendar.pdf

New In Town
Located just a few minutes from your Residence Club vacation home, La Costa’s new Cinepolis Luxury Cinemas promises to provide families and movie buffs a new and improved movie-going experience. The innovative theater keeps luxury and comfort in mind and includes seven auditoriums; state-of the art, 3D- and high-definition technologies; high-back reclining chairs; reserved seating options; and a full bar and in-seat food ordering options with gourmet and classic movie fare. The theater is located at 6941 El Camino Real. For more information, please visit their website http://www.cinepolisusa.com/ or call 1 (760) 603-8638.


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## vacationlover2 (Mar 28, 2012)

The thing that gets me is all the nickel and diming.  The Four Seasons in Scottsdale has daily activities for kids with no fees.  Bingo, golf tournament, etc. and they offer wonderful prizes?  This is in addition to the wonderful and free kids club.  If I owned at Aviara I would be livid.  Even my much more inexpensive Marriotts offer free activities.


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## tombo (Mar 28, 2012)

Don't pay for baby sitting service to exercise. Missing a few days or a week will not take years off of your life. Instead spend every minute of your vacation with your kids because as your parents tell you, your kids will be grown before you know it. It seems like my kids were sitting on my lap last year, and now both are gone and married. I look back with regret upon many things I could have done with my kids when they were small that I was too busy to do then. If I could only go back in time and have another chance.....  They do grow up way too fast.

Missing a day or week of exercises is not something you will regret years from now. Time that you could have spent with your children that you did not take advantage of will probably be sorelly missed as your kids get older. IMO they did you a favor. Have a great family trip.


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## siesta (Mar 28, 2012)

I remember when the park hyatt switch was announced and owners said that since it was just hotel changing management this wouldnt effect owners and exchangers staying on the FS side. Well this policy change, and moreover, the lack of wilingness to accomodate what surely should be an exception just goes to show that the vacation experience HAS changed, and who knows what more surprises are to come.


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## vacationlover2 (Mar 28, 2012)

No offense, Tombo, but I spend plenty of time with my kids.  My kids absolutely LOVE the kids club.  We go to the Four Seasons in Scottsdale and they clamor to go there.  We get a great mix of kid time and alone time there.  

My biggest issue here is that I planned this trip specifically around the kids club.  I had gone three years ago with my Mom and we enjoyed exercising while the kids were in the club and then one day we enjoyed the adult pool for a couple hours.

I have been talking this up to my husband all these months and now no go.


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## LisaH (Mar 28, 2012)

Sounds like you will be Ok with Marriott Newport Coast. Why not ask II if they can switch you to that resort so you can use the kids club? Personally I would not do this. If your kids really like the kids club experience and if you like the resort, paying each for half a day may not be so bad if all else fails.


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## vacationlover2 (Mar 28, 2012)

I did call II.  They had nothing.  I wanted to switch to Newport.


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## bogey21 (Mar 28, 2012)

One of the problems with buying (or exchanging) into one of the "chain" Time Share Resorts is the changes ordered from on high.  As many of you know I dumped my Marriott Weeks years ago when they changed their Rental and Sales Programs to the detriment of owners.  

My advice is to buy only independent  Resorts that are controlled by their HOAs.  Two benefits - first, the cost of your Week is way less, and second, any changes in operations will be made by Owners, not Corporate bean counters.

George


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## jaym (Mar 28, 2012)

tombo said:


> Don't pay for baby sitting service to exercise. Missing a few days or a week will not take years off of your life. Instead spend every minute of your vacation with your kids because as your parents tell you, your kids will be grown before you know it. It seems like my kids were sitting on my lap last year, and now both are gone and married. I look back with regret upon many things I could have done with my kids when they were small that I was too busy to do then. If I could only go back in time and have another chance.....  They do grow up way too fast.
> 
> Missing a day or week of exercises is not something you will regret years from now. Time that you could have spent with your children that you did not take advantage of will probably be sorelly missed as your kids get older. IMO they did you a favor. Have a great family trip.




tombo- I think you do make a good point. I can relate to your comments as well.
However, unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems to me the OP isn't seeking others advice or suggestions on how best to handle the unanticipated activity fees. But rather, simply to vent to others about the FSRC policy change and disgust about the new fee for kid's activity time.
The response below by vacationlover2 to your comment here also appears to be indicating they already spend sufficient time and are seeking time *away* from the kids during the upcoming vacation. I can relate to that as well! One can certainly have an hour or two to themselves, you've earned the break and need to make the most of your downtime. 
But to me, the question becomes if it is unavoidable, resort will not make exceptions, then do you simply pay the fee to get what you want or do you get frustrated further and let it detract from your vacation experiences?!


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## alwysonvac (Mar 29, 2012)

vacationlover2 said:


> The thing that gets me is all the nickel and diming.  The Four Seasons in Scottsdale has daily activities for kids with no fees.  Bingo, golf tournament, etc. and they offer wonderful prizes?  This is in addition to the wonderful and free kids club.  *If I owned at Aviara I would be livid.*  Even my much more inexpensive Marriotts offer free activities.



I'm sorry you're disappointed.

But honestly, as an Aviara owner, those things are not important to me and I don't want my maintenance fees to cover things that the Four Season hotel used to offer for free. My maintenance fee is high enough already.


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## Pmuppet (Mar 29, 2012)

Definitely sucks to have a feature pulled out from you with limited warning. I would be upset to if i were you.

That is the life of timeshares though, and another example of why timeshares should be disounted significantly when you try to decide to buy or not.  Cause features you love and add value for your family, can be gone tomorrow.  Wonder what four season owners think about the resort they bought into changing to the Hyatt, probably not positive.

I do agree with the previous poster though if i were an owner, i would vote against this service.  This service isnt cheap and probably carries a significant lability insurance.  Charge a reasonable amount for childcare, but they should charge something.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 29, 2012)

We have stayed at many Marriott resorts over the years and have rarely seen free activities.  Even the ice cream social at the Marriott in Branson cost more money than I was willing to pay.  They always have some BBQ at the Marriotts that has a cost, too.  Activities aren't free where we stayed. 

Four Seasons is a top resort and probably the third best exchange we ever had.  I don't expect a resort to entertain me and provide exercise classes as an exchanger.  I have never been to an activity at the DVC resorts in my life, yet we have stayed at DVC (own DVC), and know they have activities.  I always have a full agenda before we ever arrive, so planned activities are not in the cards for us or our kids/ grandkids.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 29, 2012)

alwysonvac said:


> I'm sorry you're disappointed.
> 
> But honestly, as an Aviara owner, those things are not important to me and I don't want my maintenance fees to cover things that the Four Season hotel used to offer for free. My maintenance fee is high enough already.



I am sure the hotel next door was never providing it for free.   As a timeshare "owner" you pay for *every* expense that is incurred.  If there was no line item expense in the budget, you can be sure it was either included as an "other" fee or the TS was providing services that were paid for by owners to the hotel guests as a swap.  

Now Hyatt may have wanted more money to provide the same service "for free" to TS occupants or there may be such bad blood that they wouldn't provide it as a blanket service to all TS occupants or they may not have staffing levels to provide and the separate fees keep the usage down.

In the world of TS w/o an independent HOA board, any expense that can be charged as part of MF's with a 10% added fee to the management is going to be added.


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## GregGH (Mar 31, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> I am sure the hotel next door was never providing it for free.   As a timeshare "owner" you pay for *every* expense that is incurred.  If there was no line item expense in the budget, you can be sure it was either included as an "other" fee or the TS was providing services that were paid for by owners to the hotel guests as a swap.
> 
> Now Hyatt may have wanted more money to provide the same service "for free" to TS occupants or there may be such bad blood that they wouldn't provide it as a blanket service to all TS occupants or they may not have staffing levels to provide and the separate fees keep the usage down.
> 
> In the world of TS w/o an independent HOA board, any expense that can be charged as part of MF's with a 10% added fee to the management is going to be added.



Hi Tschawa

a fair number of mis-statements above
1) Four Seasons as a brand provides a lot of comp items ( after all the price is ...well ...five star... ) ... Hyatt does not ...they added this charge to BOTH their HOTEL GUESTS and to Aviara .... this  is on TOP of their charge for the SPA-Showers they added a while back!!!!
2) the 'bad blood' is not really  between FS and Hyatt ... it is FS and Broadreach Capital ( the owners - who want to cheap  out - gotta love those Real Estate Hedge funds ... ).  Hyatt is stuck in an awkward position to keep cutting costs to keep the cash coming to the owners.
3) Aviara has an owner based HOA.  I have attended past meetings as an owner.

As a multi-week owner at Aviara we hated to see the hotel change hands ... but we pick  ourselves up and get on with life.  In fact we just bought  2 more weeks last month.

I continue to be a fan of the focus that FS brings to this industry - I continue to be impressed by them.

Greg
ps-when you get Lemon's - make Lemonade ... don't let things out of your control ruin your attitude.


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## bdh (Mar 31, 2012)

Pmuppet said:


> Definitely sucks to have a feature pulled out from you with limited warning. I would be upset to if i were you.
> 
> That is the life of timeshares though, and another example of why timeshares should be disounted significantly when you try to decide to buy or not.  Cause features you love and add value for your family, can be gone tomorrow.  Wonder what four season owners think about the resort they bought into changing to the Hyatt, probably not positive.
> 
> I do agree with the previous poster though if i were an owner, i would vote against this service.  This service isnt cheap and probably carries a significant lability insurance.  Charge a reasonable amount for childcare, but they should charge something.



From reading the various other posts in this thread, I'm thinking there are a variety of misconceptions in this one.

This resort has two entities - a hotel and a TS.  Both had the same management company until a couple of years ago when the owners of the hotel removed Four Seasons and installed Hyatt.  Management of the TS property did not change and is still a Four Seasons.  

The kids club is a service run by the hotel and the TS owners do not control or vote on the service.  There was notification of the change for the Four Seasons TS owners - but someone coming in on an exchange would not be aware of a service change provided by an adjacent separate entity.


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## HudsHut (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks for posting. I am sorry to learn that the kids' club is no longer free. My son was able to enjoy it in December, and he did have a good time.

A few steps away from the kids' club is the palatial game room, where all games were available for free. Call and ask if that is still free.

Assuming it is, that is a nice way for one of you to entertain the kids while the other goes to exercise.

There are also 3 pools the children could enjoy, under your supervision.


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## vacationlover2 (Mar 31, 2012)

It just gets better. When we arrived, we were informed that a group bought out the entire Park Hyatt hotel from April 4 to 15.  So now we have no access to anything at the hotel starting Wednesday.


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## Steve (Apr 1, 2012)

I'm sorry your trip is not turning out how you had planned.  I know it can be very frustrating when expectations are not met.

As a Four Seasons Aviara owner, however, I hope that you will find a way to have a reasonably enjoyable vacation.  The last time I visited Aviara, in January, I didn't even set foot in the hotel...and I had a wonderful vacation.  I think the Residence Club alone makes for a really nice resort.

You mentioned in a previous post that you wish you had exchanged for Marriott's Newport Coast Villas instead of Aviara, and I noticed that you also own at Manor Club.  These are both very nice properties, and I am also an owner at Manor Club, but neither features a hotel.  Nor do they feature the level of service and elegance of the Four Seasons Residence Club, in my opinion.  Despite the loss of the hotel, I still feel that the Four Seasons Aviara is at the very pinnacle of the timeshare industry.

If there is one thing that I think TUG should consider, it is dropping the name Park Hyatt Aviara which is currently listed along with Four Seasons Aviara in the marketplace and review sections.  That is misleading.  When you exchange into Four Seasons Aviara, you are getting the Residence Club.  You can't count on the features of the Park Hyatt Hotel being available, and exchangers should be made aware of this.  

Again, hopefully you can find a way to salvage your vacation and enjoy your stay at Aviara.

Steve


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 1, 2012)

Steve, I loved FSA.  We had a 2 bedroom and enjoyed just the unit and amenities at the clubhouse, including the beautiful pool and exercise facility.  I never saw a exercise locker room with so many items to use as a guest.  I loved the bath products, too, and we couldn't believe daily housekeeping.  No other resort provides it.  

It was a wonderful exchange, and I know how much you pay for maintenance fees, too, which is probably double what your Marriott costs each year.


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## GregGH (Apr 1, 2012)

vacationlover2 said:


> It just gets better. When we arrived, we were informed that a group bought out the entire Park Hyatt hotel from April 4 to 15.  So now we have no access to anything at the hotel starting Wednesday.



OK -- this is just a wild guess on my part -- but how many groups are large enough to 'block' the entire hotel ?????  WOW ... if right you are lucky to see so many famous ( infamous ?? ) people ....  albeit the word see ...you will have to sneak a view - as they would really block 'normal access' .  This group never lets the location to be know until as close to the time - as they can .. and they have the power to  ... well .... check these Amazon books.

BILDERBERG GROUP ...

Here is a list of places they have meet in the past ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_meetings

I have seen big groups in the weeks at Aviara ... but never seen then block access ... e.g.:walk over to watch the sun set in the lobby ....   Now this will be driving me nuts until we find out who the group is ... 

Greg

ps - OMG --- is this an April fools joke ???????????   Well-- still interested in who ...smile


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## mav (Apr 1, 2012)

vacationlover2 said:


> It just gets better. When we arrived, we were informed that a group bought out the entire Park Hyatt hotel from April 4 to 15.  So now we have no access to anything at the hotel starting Wednesday.



  I am curious.. what group bought it out? They must have HUGE BUCKS!



  I am sorry about your trip  , but the features at the clubhouses are fantastic. I have stayed there 3 times and Aviara is an amazing resort! The last time we were there was this past Christmas season. They had hot chocolate with a delicate caramel whipped cream to put on it and I drank gallons of it that week. I am still wearing it! I hope your trip gets better for you.


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## jarta (Apr 1, 2012)

I own 2 weeks at FSA.  Great place to stay - even if the hotel wasn't next door.

Timing is everything!  I am sorry you will not have full access to the hotel.  But, please try to enjoy your stay anyway.  The timeshare resort is so pretty and relaxing.  The service can't be beat.  There are lots of things for you and the kids to do in the vicinity of Carlsbad.

Hope it all gets better; seems like it can't get any worse.  GLTY.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 1, 2012)

For those wondering what services & amenities are offered by the Four Seasons Residence Club, here's a link to their website - http://www.fourseasons.com/northsandiego/

I agree with the others that Four Seasons Residence Club at Aviara is great place to stay even if the hotel wasn't next door. I've been perfectly happy with the facilities at the Residence Club. As an owner, I've never really used the hotel facilities for anything other than dining when it was a Four Seasons hotel. 

JMHO...The Park Hyatt hotel facilities is not the main reason for visiting Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara. It's not like going to Starwood's Harborside and finding out that Atlantis access is not included or a Disney timeshare and finding out that you no longer have any of the onsite resort guest benefits. Those are places I would probably be disappointed if I had a trip planned since it's the main reason for selecting that timeshare.


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## LLW (Apr 1, 2012)

As an exchanger, I have always been grateful for the chance to receive the FSA service (not the hotel service), paying the fees that I do, minuscule compared to what the owners pay. I have been at both Aviara and Scottsdale, and Scottsdale is just not the same. Newport Coast Villas isn't either.  

Different strokes for different people, but I am able to exchange into FSA only because FSA owners exchange using II. :whoopie:


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## cjinlb (Apr 1, 2012)

When I went  to the Four Seasons website to look at the residence clubs, I noticed that Scottsdale is not listed.  Is this intentional? Are the Aviara and Troon North the only Four Seasons residence clubs that offer a smaller timeshare of one week?

http://residences.fourseasons.com/


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## LAX Mom (Apr 1, 2012)

cjinlb said:


> When I went  to the Four Seasons website to look at the residence clubs, I noticed that Scottsdale is not listed.  Is this intentional? Are the Aviara and Troon North the only Four Seasons residence clubs that offer a smaller timeshare of one week?
> 
> http://residences.fourseasons.com/



Aviara & Troon North are the only Four Seasons Residence Clubs that exchange with II. I'm not a Four Seasons owner, but I think all other Four Seasons locations exchange only among Four Seasons owners. Even at that, it's very difficult for Aviara & Troon North owners to exchange into other Four Seasons locations.


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## GregGH (Apr 4, 2012)

so ...it is April 4th ....what group is there ..... the suspense is killing me ....

Greg


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## vacationlover2 (Apr 4, 2012)

We are at legoland today but I will try to find out when I get back.


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## vacationlover2 (Apr 5, 2012)

They wont tell me who it is lol.


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## cgeidl (Apr 5, 2012)

*Best ever*

The best service we ever had was this February at Aviara . I agree te Hyatt name should be dropped. Just went once to the very nice hotel but without it the resrt is the best we have stayed at in about 250 exchanges. Second is Westin Kierland Commons and third is Marriott's Newport Coast.The units furnishings are as good as any hotel we have styaed at however we don't stay at Conde nast priced hotels s others may have disagreements.
All the on site personnel seemed to know our name.
Can't wait to go again but it is a hard trade for my rather plain medicore Hawaiin Waikiki Resort with 1/5 th the maintenance fees.
We can't afford to buy there but trading is great but we know there may never be a summer week with our trading power.


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## lynne (Apr 5, 2012)

vacationlover2 said:


> They wont tell me who it is lol.



I have a guess "Olivia".  They frequently book the Mauna Lani Resort and close access to owners and guests.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 5, 2012)

cmon guys, its a freaking US park hyatt in non prime location = not much money. even with 329 rooms. the level of discount they would give is huge, not to mention corporate rates could start EXTREMELY low to begin with, and take a travel agency commission discount off the top as well. and they switched from FS to PH to cut costs. currently has published 3rd nt free https://www.aavacations.com/deals_terms.asp?id=14014



lynne said:


> They frequently book the Mauna Lani Resort and close access to owners


im assuming there are some $10mm plus homes at mauna lani. i cant imagine owners of $10 or $20 or $30mm homes (dont know how high they go at mauna lani, maybe ill take a look sometime) who pay mauna lani a monthly full mgmt fee are going to be kept out.


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## lynne (Apr 5, 2012)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> cmon guys, its a freaking US park hyatt in non prime location = not much money. even with 329 rooms. the level of discount they would give is huge, not to mention corporate rates could start EXTREMELY low to begin with, and take a travel agency commission discount off the top as well.
> 
> 
> im assuming there are some $10mm plus homes at mauna lani. i cant imagine owners of $10 or $20 or $30mm homes (dont know how high they go at mauna lani, maybe ill take a look sometime) who pay mauna lani a monthly full mgmt fee are going to be kept out.



I own a condo at the Mauna Lani and yes, even owner's were not allowed into the resort or use any of the restaurants during that time.   Our association did let us know that the resort was booked for a 'private' affair and we would not have access.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 5, 2012)

lynne said:


> I own a condo at the Mauna Lani and yes, even owner's were not allowed into the resort or use any of the restaurants during that time. Our association did let us know that the resort was booked for a 'private' affair and we would not have access.



a number of communities, interesting. how much is considered part of the hotel vs not part of the hotel?
does hotel offer management (housekeeping etc) of residences?
developer(s?) doesnt have official rental offering like hualalai?

looking at assessor >
lots of $10mm - i see toyota owns some oceanfront
two $15mm >
68-1023 PAUOA WAY - ah, on ocean/beach adjacent to fairmont beach
68-1114 HONOKAOPE PLACE


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## lynne (Apr 6, 2012)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> a number of communities, interesting. how much is considered part of the hotel vs not part of the hotel?
> does hotel offer management (housekeeping etc) of residences?
> developer(s?) doesn't have official rental offering like hualalai?
> 
> ...



All of the surrounding developments are individually owned and managed by different entities.  We all have our own Homeowner Rules but the MLRA (Mauna Lani Resort Association) the management for the resort as well as all on-site developments.   The hotel does not offer any amenities (such as housekeeping) and there is no official rental offering as all of our properties are individually owned.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 6, 2012)

lynne said:


> All of the surrounding developments are *individually owned and managed* by different entities. We all have our own Homeowner Rules but the MLRA (Mauna Lani Resort Association) the management for the resort as well as all on-site developments. The hotel does not offer any amenities (such as housekeeping) and there is no official rental offering as all of our properties are individually owned.
> 
> Resorts: Pacific Grove Plaza, CA



interesting, thanks

hualalai's ~500 residences were developed by michael dell along with FS and kona village hotels (kona village land is bishop lease)
hualalai official rental mgmt co - http://www.hualalaivillasandhomes.com/

btw nice location in monterey (i visited MIIS)


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 6, 2012)

tombo said:


> spend every minute of your vacation with your kids


sounds potentially as unhealthy as no time with kids
kids clubs/offerings can be pretty incredible
also property/accommodation staff in general



Kagehitokiri2 said:


> im kind of surprised they havent created a kids club, i wonder if its been raised with owners





alwysonvac said:


> those things are not important to me and I don't want my maintenance fees to cover things that the Four Season hotel used to offer for free. My maintenance fee is high enough already.


ah

complimentary at FS 
scottsdale currently http://www.1.fourseasons.com/scottsdale/value/
aviara previously http://web.archive.org/web/20090517032400/http://www.fourseasons.com/aviara/value/



vacationlover2 said:


> group bought out the entire Park Hyatt hotel from April 4 to 15


11 nts

just IDed the booking. it was a group, with individuals paying, not organization, although organization/agent presumably did a guarantee (or prepay) with hotel. im seeing apr 5 > 15. rates are high, mainly because all-inclusive, but might also be because individual and guarantee may be less than 100% occupancy. makes me wonder how common this kind of thing is. (group exclusive use)


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## cjinlb (Apr 6, 2012)

It is intentional to not list Troon as a private residence on the Four Seasons site.  This is because the developer is sold out and not marketing or taking in resales.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 6, 2012)

scottsdale residences ended relationship with FS, not sure they had one when delivered
scottsdale residence club (timeshare) used to be listed, not sure why it isnt now, when other sold out are

other FS residences >
never had FS sites - exuma (had 3 club units) (now sandals) / cairo nile plaza / sharm el sheikh (maybe sharm did actually)
macau - not sure of status


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## cjinlb (Apr 6, 2012)

If Bernanke is attending, now I know where my tax dollars are really going!


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## cjinlb (Apr 6, 2012)

http://www.fourseasons.com/scottsdale/   The residences are still part of the Four Seasons and can trade with Aviara for $150. Note that this is the resort site.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Apr 6, 2012)

*cjinlb*,

i differentiated between residences (actually detached single family) and residence club
and i explained it was a group with individuals paying...
older post re scottsdale >


Kagehitokiri2 said:


> FS scottsdale was originally supposed to manage adjacent detached villas, but it didnt happen


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