# Club Points Overlay Program (CPOP) for Phuket Beach Owners / Week into AP club points



## Starbucks (Jun 23, 2009)

I just received an email from one of the sales agents at our own home resort in Phuket. Basically they are offering us to exchange our annual week into MVCI Asia-Pacific (MVCI AP)"Club Points".

Beeing quite often at our home resort as well as beeing guest of a sales tour in Singapore i do know the program details of MVCI AP quite well and always considered it an overall "bad value" compared to the week based system. However the points programm does offer some options which might be worthwhile if played the right way (mainly II Flexchange using club points & Express Breaks). Therefore i have a slight interest in becoming a member IF they drop the minimum amount of points purchased or they offer a real big incentive to buy those points.

Sadly, the email offer from today is nothing but a joke. According to the email MVCI Phuket’s week owners can receive AP Club Points equivalent to the value of their week that they own.

Gold = 20.700
Platinum = 32.700
Platinum-Plus = 60.300

Those figures are equal the number of club points needed to reserve the respective week within the MVCI AP system. However if you want to exchange your week into club points you must pay a one time fee of USD 5,000. There is a small discount (15%) for members who decide quickly to switch to the point system or for members who purchase additional club points (up to 100% if you purchase 30k club points).

Knowing the AP point system and looking back at our personal week usage in the past they could pay me those 5.000 USD and i would not go for the week system -> point system transformation.

I havent read much about MVCI AP details on that board (if all) but i am not a regular guest either so i might have missed it. Anyway if anyone does want some more info about it i am happy to share my knowledge.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 23, 2009)

If this is what they have planned for the US based system, that is to pay $5,000 just to convert what they already own into points, I think they can pretty well forget about that.


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## Mr. Vker (Jun 23, 2009)

We own at Phuket as well.  No email yet.  We own Gold season.  Sounds like no deal!


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## m61376 (Jun 23, 2009)

Starbucks said:


> I havent read much about MVCI AP details on that board (if all) but i am not a regular guest either so i might have missed it. Anyway if anyone does want some more info about it i am happy to share my knowledge.



I think a lot of people here would be interested in the details of the AP points system. Are there other resorts in the system and can you directly book the other resorts with some home resort priority? Are the resorts rated differently points-wise? If you have the time to explain the system I know I would be interested and I'd venture to guess a lot of us would be. Thanks.


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## m61376 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hmmm- according to this post:


Mapletown said:


> The price as of Oct., 2008 was $1.25 per point for the minimum purchase of 12000 points, for a total of $15000.  (Unit price would be cheaper when you purchase more points.  I purchased the minimum points of 12000.)
> Annual club dues as of Jan., 2009 are $0.027 per point for 12000 points, that is $324.
> 
> Any external exchanges to II are made from our club points which are defined by size of unit and TDI (Travel Demand Index).  The number of required points as of 2008 and 2009 are ranging from 10000 to 85000,
> ...


a Platinum 2 BR unit at Phuket would only qualify for a studio exchange during high season elsewhere with a few thousand points left over, and a Gold 2BR wouldn't even qualify for a studio trade in moderate season through II, if I am understanding Starbucks' figures and the above numbers correctly.

Am I missing something??


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## heatherw (Jun 24, 2009)

I might be wrong ( it has been known before ) but i think ASIAN points are not the same as Marriott rewards points.
When we went to Phuket in jan we looked round the new marriott place down the round from Phuket beach ( not as nice by the way) and the whole system is slightly different and is based on a points basis with all the other asian resorts. i can't remember the details of how it worked but I seem to recall it gave slightly better flexibility and was ok but was not a great offer. However I wouldn't pay that much to join the scheme


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

Mr. Vker said:


> We own at Phuket as well.  No email yet.  We own Gold season.  Sounds like no deal!



Well, the email i got yesterday stated that the offer is limited to the first 500 Phuket's owners only. I thought its a marketing phrase... 



m61376 said:


> I think a lot of people here would be interested in the details of the AP points system. Are there other resorts in the system and can you directly book the other resorts with some home resort priority? Are the resorts rated differently points-wise? If you have the time to explain the system I know I would be interested and I'd venture to guess a lot of us would be. Thanks.



I am going to write a more detailed post tonight. 



m61376 said:


> ...a Platinum 2 BR unit at Phuket would only qualify for a studio exchange during high season elsewhere with a few thousand points left over, and a Gold 2BR wouldn't even qualify for a studio trade in moderate season through II, if I am understanding Starbucks' figures and the above numbers correctly.
> 
> Am I missing something??



Nope you are spot on.


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

*Programm details / MVCI Asia-Pacific / Points System*

As some of you seem to be interested; here are some more details about the MVCI Asian-Pacific Point System:

Programm is membership and point based and will end in 2056. FYI: Our regular Phuket weeks expire in 2081.

There are 4 options how you can use your points:

*1) Club Resorts & Club Connections*

Current Club Resorts are


Ko´Olina, Hawai
Waiohai Beach Club, Hawai
Phuket Beach Club, Phuket
Mai Khao Beach Club; Phuket
MVCI at the Empire Place, Bangkok
Grand Chateau, Las Vegas

Sales agent told me that they will quickly add other locations but i have not heard of any additional right now.

Current Club Connections are


Mayfair Executive Apartments, Bangkok
Courtyard Surfers Paradise, Australia
2 Macdonnel Road, Hong Kong
Renaissance Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Hua Hin Marriott Resort & Spa, Thailand
Okinawa Marriott Resort & Spa, Japan
Renaissance Koh Samui, Thailand
Ritz-Carlton, Bali (hotel rooms only, no Cliff or Pool Villa)

Note: Club Connections resorts are not part of the MVCI AP inventory. They are not owned, managed or operated by the club. They are only provided as an alternative accomodation for Club Members´convenience....

Usage:

Members can use their points for stays at above locations. Number of points required is based on 


Resort
Season
Unit
Day of the week

Point cost is calculated per night, there is no discount if you stay a whole week. Point cost for weekday nights are the cheapest, Sunday night is in the middle and Friday and Saturday nights are the most expensive.

There are only 3 different seasons availabe at above locations: Gold, Platinum and Platinum-Plus. No bronze or silver within MVCI AP.
The Asian locations as well as the location in Australia do offer a Gold Season whereas the locations in the US only offer Platinum and Platinum-Plus.

IIRC there is no minimum stay, so basically you can use your points for Mon-Thurs. nights only or even one night stays.

See next post for detailed cost structure.


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## m61376 (Jun 24, 2009)

Starbucks- oops- I posted that I was looking forward to reading your post and then it was already posted. Well- looking forward to the next post 

The interesting thing about this is that my impression of things (although it is just the gist I got from talking to people) is that the AP points program is the forerunner of what Marriott intends to launch overall, so I think critically looking at the AP program will be very revealing.

We may find that Marriott launches a points program plan and keeps week for week trading unchanged within II until they see how the (or if the) plan takes off. 

This portends to be a very interesting post and I am sure ensuing discussion.


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

*Point cost structure of MVCI AP locations*

Below are the point requirements for the current MVCI AP club resorts. Cost are shown *per night* (or week total):

*Ko´Olina, Hawai*

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio

Mon-Thurs/2,500/3,000
Fri-Sat/4,400/5,300
Sun/3,500/4,200
Week/22,300/26,800

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,600/4,300
Fri-Sat/6,300/7,600
Sun/5,100/6,100
Week/32,100/38,500

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/5,500/6,600
Fri-Sat/9,600/11,600
Sun/7,700/9,300
Week/48,900/58,900

*Waiohai Beach Club, Hawai*

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom Island View

Mon-Thurs/5,500/6,600
Fri-Sat/9,500/11,500
Sun/7,700/9,300
Week/48,700/58,700

2 Bedroom Ocean View

Mon-Thurs/6,300/7,600
Fri-Sat/10,900/13,300
Sun/8,800/10,600
Week/55,800/67,600

*Grand Chateau, Las Vegas*

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio

Mon-Thurs/2,000/2,800
Fri-Sat/3,400/4,900
Sun/2,700/3,900
Week/17,500/24,900

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,800/4,000
Fri-Sat/4,900/7,000
Sun/3,900/5,600
Week/24,900/35,600

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/4,300/6,100
Fri-Sat/7,400/10,700
Sun/6,000/8,600
Week/38,000/54,400

No 3 Bedroom unit via MVCI AP.

*Phuket Beach Club, Thailand*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

*Mai Khao Beach Club, Phuket, Thailand*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

2 Bedroom Pool Villa

Mon-Thurs/2,700/4,200/7,800
Fri-Sat/4,700/7,400/13,600
Sun/3,700/5,900/10,900
Week/23,900/37,500/69,300

*MVCI at Empire Place, Bangkok, Thailand*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/1,500/2,400/4,400
Fri-Sat/2,600/4,100/7,600
Sun/2,100/3,300/6,100
Week/13,300/21,100/38,900

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

3 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,400/5,300/9,800
Fri-Sat/5,900/9,300/17,100
Sun/4,700/7,400/13,700
Week/30,100/47,200/87,100

Club connections to follow....


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

Below are the point requirements for the current MVCI *Club Connection* *Resorts*. Cost are shown per night (or week total):

*Mayfair Executive Apartments, Bangkok, Thailand*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/1,500/2,400/4,400
Fri-Sat/2,600/4,100/7,600
Sun/2,100/3,300/6,100
Week/13,300/21,100/38,900

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

*Courtyard Surfers Paradise, Australia*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Resort Room

Mon-Thurs/1,000/1,400/2,400
Fri-Sat/1,700/2,400/4,100
Sun/1,300/1,900/3,300
Week/8,700/12,300/21,100

Resort Room Ocean View

Mon-Thurs/1,200/2,100/1,700
Fri-Sat/2,100/2,900/5,100
Sun/1,700/2,400/4,100
Week/10,700/15,000/25,900

*2 Macdonnell Road, Hong Kong*

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio Suite

Mon-Thurs/1,600/1,900/2,800
Fri-Sat/2,700/3,200/4,900
Sun/2,200/2,600/4,000
Week/14,000/16,600/25,000

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,600/3,000/4,700
Fri-Sat/4,500/5,300/8,100
Sun/3,600/4,200/6,500
Week/23,000/26,800/41,500

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,100/3,700/5,600
Fri-Sat/5,400/6,400/9,800
Sun/4,300/5,100/7,900
Week/27,500/32,700/49,900

Point info on additional Club Connections resorts in Asia to follow soon.

Basic financial info to follow below...


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

*Financial Info & Maintenance Fees*

*Points-Purchase Price*

The current ASK-prices by MVCI AP are as follows:

12,000- 18,000 = US$1.25 a Point

20,000- 28,000 = US$1.15 a Point 

30,000 upward = US$1.05 a Point 

Discount on higher purchases will be given on the whole amount; so a 30,000 point purchase costs US$ 31,500. Purchasing 18,000 and 28,000 points is a bad idea.

For the initial investment a minimum purchase of 12,000 points is set, once you are in the system you are able to purchase less points (iirc 2,000 minimum).

*Maintenance Fee* 

Current maintenance fee is US$ 0.027 per Club point. Maintenance Fees are not based on the specific location but the whole system. There is no "cheap Maintenance fee"-Location. Maintenance Fee is calculated in USD but i have no idea how exchange rates have an influence on future MF amounts.

Also there is no (official) discount for higher point values; so your 30,000 point purchase will cost US$ 810 maintenance fee. The more points you buy, the more maintenance fee you pay. As usual the maintenance fee per point is not fixed and is likely to increase over time.

*Some Calculations*

Just a few calculations using above pricing info and the also posted point prices.

One week in a 2 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at the *Phuket Beach Club* will cost 32,700 points. That means you must purchase 34.000 points (due to 2k steps) for an initial investment of US$ 35,700 and an annual MF of US$ 918 at least. FYI: AFAIK the last Platinum weeks sold under the old week programm were close to US$ 30.000; 2009 MF for the week system came in at THB 26.200 which equal US$ 765 at the moment. 

One week in a 2 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at *Ko´Olina, Hawai* will cost 48,900 points (=50,000 points for US$ 52,500) and US$ 1,350 MF.

One week in a 1 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at *Grand Chateau, Las Vegas* will cost 24,900 points (=26,000 points for US$ 29,900) and US$ 702 MF.

Point usage for other MVCI resorts and Interval next.


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

*Using Points for other MVCI exchanges and Interval International*

Back to the options how one can use MVCI AP club points

*2) and 3) Usage for MVCI Resorts and Interval International*

Point value needed to exchange to other MVCI resorts or Interval International location *is based strictly on Interval´s Travel Demand Index and unit size*. Not sure if this has already changed but i think exchanges to other non MVCI AP resorts or II partner resorts are only available on a weekly basis.

There are three Travel Demand Seasons within the scheme LOW (TDI 50 to 80), MODERATE (TDI 80 to 120), HIGH (TDI 120 to 150+).

As already quoted in the thread above, the price structure for a week is as follows:

Low/Moderate/High

Studio

10,000/15,000/27,500

1 Bedroom

15,000/23,000/42,500

2 Bedroom

23,000/32,500/60,000

3 Bedroom

32,500/45,000/85,000

In addition, there is a Flexchange option which allows to exchange 10.000 club points into any season and any unit (as usual based on availability).

I am not doing examples at that stage but comparing option 2 vs option 1 does lead to some interesting results if choosing the right TDI week.

Fees

Exchanging into other regular MVCI resorts costs US$ 99 per week, exchanging into other II resorts costs US$ 149 per week. 

*4) Exchanging Club points into Marriott Reward Points*

Watch out, that one is funny:

MVCI AP members have the option to exchange their club points into Marriott Rewards (MR) Points.

Current exchange rate to do that is 1:5.
So 20,000 club points will result in a 100,000 MR point credit. 

Thats an incredible deal after you figure out that you still have to pay a maintenance fee of 0,027 US$ per point and an exchange fee of US$ 129 per transaction. Finally your 100.000 MR points will have cost you US$ 669 wheras the same number of points purchased directly from Marriott will cost US$ 1,250 (50k MR points limit per account per anno though). Real cash value of that point transaction is therefore US$ 581 for your 20,000 club points. 

Finally Marriott does think about their future meaning that the exchange rate 1:5 is only fixed until 2020. Starting at 2021 it will drop to 1:3. Sales agents sure mention that this is not set in stone yet and it is likely that they will modify it again.


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## m61376 (Jun 24, 2009)

wow- very informative posts- thanks!
One of the things I find interesting is that as long as you can use II for Marriott exchanges you can do well, since all exchanges through II for another Marriott week require the same number of points.

What is very concerning is that there is a vast difference between point value at different resorts even in the same season- so that your 2BR Plat. week would only be worth a 1BR at ko'Olina, for example.

The 1:5 trade for points ratio is interesting and it is interesting that it changes in 12 years, since the value of the points for use will likely have been devalued several times over.

I wonder how they balance the fact that owners of the same week at the same resort but having bought into 2 different systems will, in essence, be paying 2 different MF's? According to the MF structure, those owning enough points to be considered Platinum will be paying higher MF's than those owning enough points for a Gold unit at the same resort. They are maintaining a uniform MF across properties and per point, rather than by resort. Will costs amongst different properties be distributed, rather than owners at a specific resort being responsible for repairs, etc. at  that specific resort?

I am assuming that points now are being sold just as points and not as ownership at a specific resort- is that correct? And can weeks be booked then at any resort at the 12 month mark? From what is posted, it doesn't seem like there is any home week ownership or preference and expenses are shared across the board at all properties. Does that make HOAs obsolete in such a system?


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

*Additional feature: Express Breaks*

As an additional feature MVCI AP does offer members a special option "Express Breaks".

I have heard two different versions how those work exactly but i believe it works like this:

Members can purchase up to 3 nights (at once; can add additional nights if available) at the MVCI AP resorts at a special rate.
That rate is calculated by the number of points needed for the night multiplicated with the current cost of MF per point.

So if i want to stay Mon-Thurs. (3nights) within platinum season at Ko´Olina in a 1 Bedroom unit my daily rate would be 3,600 * US$ 0,027 = US$ 97,20.

Other version i heard is that the daily rate is set by the resort based on "maintenance cost". I asked for further details but sales person couldn´t explain it. Anyway, if the resort can set a daily rate it might not be US$ 97,20...

To be honest that additional feature is currently my main reason to be interested in becoming a member of MVCI AP.... 

Just re-read yesterdays mail and found some infos on future MVCI AP resorts in Macao, Samui (2011) and Australia (2011). I will also add the updated list of Club Connections resorts tomorrow.


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## Starbucks (Jun 24, 2009)

Well after reading TUG quite a while and learning how to use my weeks in quite effectiv i do share the concern regarding the different point values at resorts. Within the regular option 1) usage of points MVCI AP offers there is no such thing as "up-trading". If you want to stay at a higher rated resort or during a higher season you must pay additional points. Looking at my personal usage of weeks during the last years, i must admit that i most likely hadn´t had the chance to enjoy the same vacations under the new system.

Looking at published rates during low season at specific resorts or "MOD" discounted rates it becomes clear that owners who had purchased Gold-Weeks late in the game (=high price) or direct from Marriott have only a slim chance to recover the lost interest on the initial investment and the annual maintenance fee by occupying their week at their home resort. Therefore the option of "trading-up" might have been an important reason to buy the TS. So if Marriott is going to introduce "enhancements" to limit up-trading or even exclude it, i know a few members who will not be very happy about such changes. 

Going from 1:5 to 1:3 in 2021 is indeed strange. This years massive devaluation of the Travel Package awards and the upcoming "enhancement" to the MVCI awards make me feel comfortable that my week in a 2BDR in Phuket will not get me a week in a Courtyard comes 2021. Therefore exchanging my weeks into MR points was and will not be an option for me (i do not own "point machines").

Well i asked one of my sales guys about that systemwide MF calculation within MVCI AP and he told me that i should see it as a "Risk spread" or diversification.  

Points are sold as points only, correct. There is no home resort. IIRC same reservation process as within the regular MVCI but , also IIRC, no 13-month-rule.


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## m61376 (Jul 28, 2009)

So does that mean at the 12 month mark you can call to reserve any property, so that owners who paid $$$ perhaps even for a holiday week would be competing with owners who bought elsewhere but are combining points for that week? There would be no home resort advantage? I wonder what impact that would have on already hard to get weeks at certain properties???

Add to that the further complications of a day rather than a weeks based system reservations might be lots of fun


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## Twinkstarr (Jul 28, 2009)

m61376 said:


> So does that mean at the 12 month mark you can call to reserve any property, so that owners who paid $$$ perhaps even for a holiday week would be competing with owners who bought elsewhere but are combining points for that week? There would be no home resort advantage? I wonder what impact that would have on already hard to get weeks at certain properties???
> 
> Add to that the further complications of a day rather than a weeks based system reservations might be lots of fun



I think there will be some home resort period, geez even Wyndham has it.

We have it at DVC, and it works out well as does the 7 month "points are points" window. I've always gotten my reservation, I think you guys would be okay as you know to be on the phone 8:59 am as soon as your booking window opens. 

What I would be concerned about is the points into II. With DVC I can call and deposit points(now into RCI, rather than II). But they can pick points from any resort. 

If you ever watched DVC in II, what did you see? A lot of January/Feb. in HHI, Aug/Sept at WDW.


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## m61376 (Jul 28, 2009)

Twinkstarr- I would have thought that but reading through Starbuck's post it didn't seem that way, esp. since there were no home resort MF's or the like. It seemed in the Asia Pacific program it was entirely a new entity. And, I agree with you, trading outside the Marriott system we would likely be trading with those extra Bronze season weeks- so forgert about trading up within Marriott, we would likely not get equivalent trades in II (for those owning good weeks).


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## Twinkstarr (Jul 28, 2009)

m61376 said:


> Twinkstarr- I would have thought that but reading through Starbuck's post it didn't seem that way, esp. since there were no home resort MF's or the like. It seemed in the Asia Pacific program it was entirely a new entity. And, I agree with you, trading outside the Marriott system we would likely be trading with those extra Bronze season weeks- so forgert about trading up within Marriott, we would likely not get equivalent trades in II (for those owning good weeks).



That's why I never used DVC with II. 

Wonder if waitlisting will be available?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for all the great information...

One thing I noticed right away when comparing the points for Ko'Olina and 
Waiohai.  These are two places we like to visit regularly that the points for Ko'Olina are not separated out by view type but at Waiohai they are.  I also see for a 2 bedroom island view Waiohai is about 200 points less than a 2 bedroom at Ko'Olina.   Kinda of confusing...

Also, do they allow any banking and borrowing like DVC?


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## Latravel (Jul 28, 2009)

In the points based timeshare system I have, it is possible to trade up with last minute RCI exchanges made within 60 days of travel.  It is similar to the current flexchange process in II.  Instead of a resort requiring 60,000 points during regular reservation times, it's 7500 to 9000 points depending on the resort and size of the unit.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to trade up.  Every system needs a process to get rid of last minute inventory in a short amount of time.  This is done by drastically reducing the price/points.


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## Twinkstarr (Jul 28, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Thanks for all the great information...
> 
> One thing I noticed right away when comparing the points for Ko'Olina and
> Waiohai.  These are two places we like to visit regularly that the points for Ko'Olina are not separated out by view type but at Waiohai they are.  I also see for a 2 bedroom island view Waiohai is about 200 points less than a 2 bedroom at Ko'Olina.   Kinda of confusing...
> ...



That would be too much to ask for. DVC has what I think is the easiest and best banking/borrowing. If Marriott does it there will be some sort of catch to it(can't banked pts in Plat season, etc.)


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> That would be too much to ask for. DVC has what I think is the easiest and best banking/borrowing. If Marriott does it there will be some sort of catch to it(can't banked pts in Plat season, etc.)


  But how would I go to Ko'Olina when I own an island view at Waiohai.  I'd be 200 points short.


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## m61376 (Jul 28, 2009)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> But how would I go to Ko'Olina when I own an island view at Waiohai.  I'd be 200 points short.



And that's one of the big catches I see with the system as currently enacted in the Asia Pacific program. It's anyone's guess as to how it will be rolled out if/when Marriott goes to a points program, but clearly there will be many weeks- even Platinum weeks- which will be insufficient to exchange into a similar sized unit for 7 days at many other Platinum properties. Moreover, fast forward 5 or 10 years down the road, it is likely that newer properties will require even more points for exchanges, so that even current properties deemed as category 7 in their rewards program will not be credited with enough points to exchange for a week in the newer resorts.


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## icydog (Aug 4, 2009)

*It happens when points are involved*

That's what happens with point systems.. the newer resorts cost more points and more maintenance fees as well. A week at Disney's Old Key West Resort is substantially cheaper in points than a week at Disney's Bay Lake Towers. 

Also the seven month rule DVC has always had makes a great deal of sense. if you pay the big bucks for a resort you should have first crack at it. And then if you let that ship sail then your expensive resort is up for grabs for anyone with sufficient DVC points to reserve. It's kindda democratic I think.


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## Dean (Aug 5, 2009)

icydog said:


> That's what happens with point systems.. the newer resorts cost more points and more maintenance fees as well. A week at Disney's Old Key West Resort is substantially cheaper in points than a week at Disney's Bay Lake Towers.
> 
> Also the seven month rule DVC has always had makes a great deal of sense. if you pay the big bucks for a resort you should have first crack at it. And then if you let that ship sail then your expensive resort is up for grabs for anyone with sufficient DVC points to reserve. It's kindda democratic I think.


I think the difference for DVC, unlike say Bluegreen or Wyndham/Fairfield, is that they have not raised the points simply as a means of increasing the price but rather created a resort that offers something worth more points than other offerings.  Put another way, had BLT been first and others came after, it would still be around the same points as it is now.


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## icydog (Aug 5, 2009)

Dean said:


> I think the difference for DVC, unlike say Bluegreen or Wyndham/Fairfield, is that they have not raised the points simply as a means of increasing the price but rather created a resort that offers something worth more points than other offerings.  Put another way, had BLT been first and others came after, it would still be around the same points as it is now.




Absolutely. However, when we first saw what is now OKW in 1992 we thought we had died and gone to heaven. It was so beautiful and-- what was there to compare it to anyway. At that time Disney Vacation Club's Flagship resort was the best ever resort in the world in my estimation. Then when they built HH and VB I thought I would pass out from the beauty. Now I think that the AKV are the nicest I have ever seen-- and that BLT will be the MOST convenient of all the DVC properties. 

Have you stayed at the AKV yet? They are spectacular.


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## Dean (Aug 5, 2009)

icydog said:


> Have you stayed at the AKV yet? They are spectacular.


We stayed in concierge last December (points) and at OKW in May (exchange) and spent some time at Kidani.  We have 2 exchanges in Oct for the same week for 1 BR in Kidani (1 Savannah view, 1 standard view).

Back to the previous point.  Some points systems have used the points costs as a method of increasing the cost for new resorts in addition to the price per point, DVC has not done that to date to their credit.


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## icydog (Aug 6, 2009)

Dean said:


> Back to the previous point.  Some points systems have used the points costs as a method of increasing the cost for new resorts in addition to the price per point, DVC has not done that to date to their credit.



Can you give me an example of this. I assume you mean BG or Wyndham?


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## Dean (Aug 6, 2009)

icydog said:


> Can you give me an example of this. I assume you mean BG or Wyndham?


That was a big part of the discussion when Fairfield was converting over and building new resorts, not as well versed in Wyndham per se.  BG ha done this to a degree from what I've seen.  I can't speak to Hyatt, Hilton, Worldmark, Club Intrawest or other points systems.


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## Starbucks (Sep 29, 2009)

It´s been a while since my last post about the AP program but as it seems that there are a few members of this board are interested i am going to share the most recent info i got today by snailmail.

1st: It seems the sales situation is pushing them to increase goodies.

The current offer for Phuket Beach Club Owners is now:

Get 200.000 MR-Points and join the CPOP for free (a $5000 "value")

IF (!!!) you choose to own aka buy 35.000 Club Points by 1st December 2009.

Still "No deal!" for me...

2nd: Beside the new offer i also found one interesting phrase which was completely new to me:



> With the Club Point Overlay Program you can choose to convert your current Phuket Week to Club Points on any given year in order to enjoy additional use options.



So if i read and understand this correct joining CPOP does not mean that my original week is converted into points generally. Instead of that i remain an original week owner and could - as an added benefit - choose to convert my week into club points if i might be interested to do that once in a while. 

IMHO a very huge and important point as it gives me the possibility to explore and work with the new club point system nearly (join fee) risk free.

Unfortunately for Marriott i still consider their $5.000 price tag to add those "new benefits" to my current week as too expensive. However if they would drop the fee and/or add some "bribe material" i might bite in the future.


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## m61376 (Sep 29, 2009)

Hmmm...thanks for the update. My "guess" is that the AP points program is the guinea pig program of sorts for the overall program that Marriott is reportedly developing. It is VERY interesting that they seem to have gone from a points conversion program into a points overlay program, which is a huge difference, esp. wrt usage of your home resort.

I wonder if they have addressed MF issues such that week owners and point owners at the same resort wouldn't be paying different MF's; additionally, under the week system all owners, regardless of season, pay the same MF's but under the point system lower season owners would pay lower MF's, despite the fact that the operating expenses are fairly uniform across the year regardless of week being visited.


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## LawrenzoY (Sep 29, 2009)

I wonder if this AP point program is the reason for no availability in MPU.  I haven't seen any availablity in MPU for July and Aug. 2010 since last a few months.  Any comment?


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## kfsong (Oct 3, 2009)

i received the closure docs,  the ownership certificate today and the ownership number today.

but they did not send me the username and the password, how long will they take to give it to me or i have to contact the owner services ? how about the II membership ? i have updated the ROFR at the date base, i pais 31K for 2 weeks platinum every year at Phuket Beach Club, was it a reasonable deal ? Will they offer the CPOP for resale owner ?


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## kfsong (Dec 26, 2010)

Hi starbucks & all

latest from marriott phuket beach club, the US 5K conversion fees is no more now.

current overlay program is BUY 15,000 club points for 1 week overlay, BUY 21,000 club points for 2 weeks overlay. The price is US1.05 with 15% discount, for me i am tempting to buy the points so i have a right to convert the points in the future. i believe more clubs connection hotel room will come on board in the coming years and i will have the fexibilty to trade into those hotel, wat your think ? pls advice


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## MALC9990 (Dec 26, 2010)

Whilstb this is an old thread the recent update brought it to my attention. We are just back from Phuket Beach Club and our sales presentation was all about buying more AP points. I resisted what little temptation there was. 

I already own weeks at Phuket Beach Club and also some AP points. I am niot tempted to buy more points since when buying my points in early 2009, the rep also included the rught to cob=nvert my weeks (3) into AP points each year.

There was a bit of pressure for me to do this fromn the rep - my guess is that MVCIAP need the weeks from weeks owners for points owners to get time at Phuket beach Club since it seems more popular than the Mai Khao Beach Club. MVCIAP owns only a percentage of weeks at Phuket Beach Club and so needs owners to give up weeks to meet demand from AP points owners.

Since I prefer Phuket Beach Club also - I tend to use my weeks but have exchanged for AP points this year (1 week) to get sufficient time at the Empire place for a visit to Bangkok next year (2012).

Also the use of AP points for hotel stays is a better value than using MR points - as long as you want to stay at one of the Club Connections Hotels.


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## kfsong (Dec 26, 2010)

Did you pay the US 5K for the right to convert to AP points, if no, how much did you pay US per points & any discount when you purchased the AP points ?


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## MALC9990 (Dec 26, 2010)

*AP Points purchase*

I bought my points in 2009. First set bought in Feb 2009 - they were being sold in blocks of 12,000 at $1.05 per point. I bought 2 blocks - 24,000. Benefit at that time for me was 4 marriott weeks deposited with II in my account. Later in 2009 (about August) my sales rep emailed with offer to buy 6000 more points also at $1.05 per point and I could convert all my weeks to AP points in the future. I felt this was a reasonable deal so bought the additional 6,000 points. 

My first 24,000 points convert to MR points at 5 MR points for each AP point. Second 6,000 are at 3 MR points for each AP point. I am not sure how they work out the difference conversion but since I have not converted any as yet it is a moot point.

My rationale for the AP point purchase was to provide the necessary flexibility on availability for travel to Thailand from Europe. Some days of the week offer cheaper travel but they don't tie in with the weeks checkin dates of Fri/Sat/Sun at Phuket Beach Club. I can now do stop overs in Bangkok on the way out and home at Empire place and travel to Bangkok when the flights are cheaper or when I can FF miles seats.

Have also used AP points for a stay at the Marriott in SIN and that was a good deal when compared to MR points rates. I will also be using them to stay in Bangkok and Phuket in Sept 2011.


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## kfsong (Dec 26, 2010)

thanks for the info, can you explain further on tis " Benefit at that time for me was 4 marriott weeks deposited with II in my account " as i do not know wat u meant ?? So , now you are a weeks owner and asia pacific club points owner, do you have to open two II account or just have to maintain the same II account for weeks and points ? otherwise have to pay 2 diff subscription fees then

So u also have two different web page to check the availbility ya, one is my-vacationclub.com & vacationclubap.com, correct me if i am wrong

wow, U have 4 weeks with marriott traditional week and 30,000 point with AP club , and you will have great flexibility to travel K. apart from that , have you face any difficulty in booking the hotel under the club connections ? 

when is the dateline that you have to inform marriott to convert the weeks to points each year ?

I agreed with you by buying the AP points , it will allow flexibilty, can you explain in your opinion wat are the pros & cons for tis overlay program as you have experiences using it now, many thanks


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## Mr. Vker (Dec 26, 2010)

We have used MR points--via travel packages-- a few times (again this May) to fly from Baltimore to BKK. They are a great value. We could never afford first class or business class international tickets. But you do need a lot of flexibilty. I hope the points provide that for you.

I do like having my "week" though. I hope Marriott does not head down the road of forcing conversions to points.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 27, 2010)

*To KFSONG*



kfsong said:


> thanks for the info, can you explain further on tis " Benefit at that time for me was 4 marriott weeks deposited with II in my account " as i do not know wat u meant ?? So , now you are a weeks owner and asia pacific club points owner, do you have to open two II account or just have to maintain the same II account for weeks and points ? otherwise have to pay 2 diff subscription fees then
> 
> So u also have two different web page to check the availbility ya, one is my-vacationclub.com & vacationclubap.com, correct me if i am wrong
> 
> ...



The benefit of the 4 weeks was basically as follows. For purchasing 24,000 MVCIAP points there was a "Gift" - usually these are MR points buit on this occasion, the "Gift" was to have 4 Marriott weeks deposited into my II account as though I had done a "deposit first". These are then available for me to exchange to other resorts in the II catalogue. All 4 weeks had 2 year lifetime on them. Obviously these 4 weeks deposited are a one off "gift" so once exchanged they are USED.

My MVCIAP points appear on my single II membershiop alongside my weeks owned at Phuket Beach Club, Marriott Son Antem and Playa Andaluz.

Yes I do have to work with two different WEB siste - one for MVCI and the other for MVCIAP - not really a problem - I set up "Favourites" for each link.

I have had no difficulties booking club connections stays at Hotels - I use the MVCIAP call centre in Cork, Ireland and they are most helpful if I need assistance.

There is a deadline for exchanging your Phuket Beach Club Week for MVCIAP points but I am not certasin when it would be - for 2012 weeks I think it would be sometime in 2011 - also you would have to have paid your Maintenance fees for the year (I think) - a call to the MVCIAP contacvt centre would be able to conform the rules on exchangiong weeks for AP points.

So far the MVCIAP points additionaly to my weeks at Phuket beach club have proved very flexible. I have used them for stays at Club Connection hotel in Singapore. I have used them for a week at Hhuket Beach Club to add a 4th week to my 3 weeks owned there. I have a booking for The Empire Place for Sept 2011 using my MVCIAP points. Additionally, MVCIAP offered a deal in 2010 to exchange points for weeks to be deposited in II. I used 24,000 points and got two weeks deposited in II (these were two weeks at Mai Khao Beach Club in Platinum Season) - this was a big discount on th points normally required to book these weeks (12,000 points instead of 32,700 points). I then used these deposited weeks in II for weeks at other Marriott resorts in 2011.

One big advantage of using the weeks for points exchange is that I can then use the points to stay out of my normal season. So my platinum weeks at Phuket Beach Club are not available to use in Gold Seaon. But if I exchange a platinum week for 32,700 AP points I can then use those points to book more than 7 days in Gold Season at Phuket and gain a longer stay.


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## kfsong (Dec 28, 2010)

to MALC

do you purchase all your weeks directly from MVCI or from secondary market ? do their throw you free maintenances fees or marriott rewards points or II membership when you convert ? do they give you any discount from US$1.05 ?

many thanks for your infos as i am given 48 hours to make a decision to buy the 21K points together with the overlay program, do you think it is worth a try ?


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## MALC9990 (Dec 28, 2010)

*To KFSONg*

My 3 weeks at Phuket Beacvh Club were purchased from Marriott as developer weeks - so quite expensive. Now I would buy on the resale market - some weeks are available from resale agents.

MVCIAP points can only be purchased from MVCIAP and I believe normal price is $1.25 per point - if you can get the price to $1.05 that is good as it is the 2008/2009 price.

I can't say whether 21,000 points is good or not for you it really depends on what you are looking to do for vacations.


Remember - this is NOT a financial investment you are buuying and ongoping commitment to the maintenance. No one can say if a resale market for the points will develop in the future. If it does it wil be much lower than $1.05 per point.

You will have to pay MFs on the points you buy and also on the weeks you own.


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## kfsong (Dec 28, 2010)

GOOD point and noted with thanks, i will proceed to purchase the 21K points today, thanks again for your advice & opinion


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## kfsong (Jan 1, 2011)

Finally , enrolled the CPOP for my 2 weeks at phuket beach club.


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## kfsong (Jan 2, 2011)

with this CPOP program, one should purchase the resale weeks then buy some points to go into the points system, it will work out well and a good deal !


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## sthaks (Mar 12, 2011)

kfsong said:


> Finally , enrolled the CPOP for my 2 weeks at phuket beach club.



i own two weeks at marriott phuket. How much does it cost to convert into Points now? I do not wish to buy more points....pls advise.

Sonali


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## kfsong (Mar 13, 2011)

as i mention , pay 5K to enrol 1 week with no point , pay about 13.5K to enrol 1 week & receive 15K points or pay about 19K to enrol 2 weeks & receive 21K points. that's the deal now


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