# [2011] ARP No Longer Valid On Resales [?]



## mseburns (Aug 19, 2011)

My husband and I attended an "update" at Seawatch. They seem to be doing everything they can to owners of Wyndham points and in particular to Seawatch owners. Let me start off by saying that we are original owners at Seawatch (previously Fairfield Seawatch) I mentioned at the meeting that we keep losing benefits and only find out the losses when we attend an update.
There are now 5 resorts in the Myrtle Beach area and the other four all have ARP into Seawatch, but Seawatch owners do not have ARP into any of the other Myrtle Beach resorts. If you smell a rat it probably is because there is a rat here. Now, I personally don't really care to ARP into the other resorts because we like Seawatch and its great location. However, as anyone who knows about the number of units at this resort it cannot handle this influx of new members. Therefore we have a very difficult time getting what we paid for.  Now, to make matters worse our sales rep at this meeting then informed us that if we *sell* our points ourselves the ARP does not travel with them. Another stripping of benefits.This is definitely going to affect all owners of Wyndham points. I will be going to the Horry County offices to inquire about what appears to be illegal activity on the part of Wyndham. Has any one else been told this?


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## cbm32 (Aug 19, 2011)

That might be a new policy....but I wouldnt believe it just because a salesman said it.  I have heard sales presentations or "updates" from dozens of them and I think ONE didnt lie to me about something and he was convinced from the minute I sat down that I wasnt going to buy anything and so he saved his breath.


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## timesharedollars (Aug 19, 2011)

That is not true, ARP at your home resort is part of the Deed, it isn't a VIP benefit and can't be stripped, call Wyndham to confirm for yourself, preferably when you are sitting with a salesman, speakerphone would be amusing.


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## ausman (Aug 20, 2011)

I also believe this could not be true. Yet another timeshare salesmen's lie. ARP has always been available for resale point owners at the home location.

On the " Seawatch owners do not have ARP into any of the other Myrtle Beach resorts " I believe you are mistaken in that, probably told by a salesman, and that all Myrtle Beach resorts are able to utilise ARP for any UDI resort. Obviously some (Seawatch ) are more desirable than others, quality of resort and take less points, than others.

Sounds like you attended an "update" and were told a bunch of lies.


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## Rent_Share (Aug 20, 2011)

basham said:


> Sounds like you attended an "update" and were told a bunch of lies.


 
Stop the presses - like that never happens, happened and will continue to happen


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## timeos2 (Aug 20, 2011)

basham said:


> I also believe this could not be true. Yet another timeshare salesmen's lie. ARP has always been available for resale point owners at the home location.
> 
> On the " Seawatch owners do not have ARP into any of the other Myrtle Beach resorts " I believe you are mistaken in that, probably told by a salesman, and that all Myrtle Beach resorts are able to utilise ARP for any UDI resort. Obviously some (Seawatch ) are more desirable than others, quality of resort and take less points, than others.
> 
> Sounds like you attended an "update" and were told a bunch of lies.



Nope, not true. ARP is a part of the base ownership, not a sales perk like VIP, and they cannot remove or change it. It's part of the deed resale or not.  More straight out lies from sales- who would have thought that would occur? Pay no attention as usual.


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## paxsarah (Aug 20, 2011)

Don't converted fixed weeks only ARP the underlying fixed week? Could that possibly be the issue regarding a lack of ARP among the other MB resorts?

Otherwise, I think the salesman was practicing typical scare tactics.


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2011)

I think paxsarah has found the kernal of truth that the salesman was hanging his hat on


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## timeos2 (Aug 20, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I think paxsarah has found the kernal of truth that the salesman was hanging his hat on



Only if it's a converted fixed week not a UDI points ownership. I thought most Seawater were UDI not converted weeks. Converted weeks do have some limitations that don't apply to UDI deeds.


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## siesta (Aug 20, 2011)

Nothing more than salesman hogwash


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## learnalot (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes.  Sales hogwash.  Can you please edit the title of the thread by placing a question mark at the end so it reads as a question rather than appearing like a declaration?  Thanks.


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## rooktoknight (Aug 16, 2012)

*ARP on resale update???*

Has Club Wyndham Access change their policy on the ARP 13 month window on resale.  I have a 126,000 point contract purchased through Wyndham and am looking to buy some more points resale (probably up to about 308,000).  When I met with a Wyndham rep today at Smugglers Notch today, I got the "you will not get ARP and VIP benefits with your resale points." I was told that when I try and book in the ARP window i will be allowed to utilize the 126,000 points for a reservation since they are "true" Wyndham points.  He even showed a coding on my account that showed that my 126,000 contract was a "yes" on Wyndham Purchase and told me that resale would be coded "no."  Thanks for the update.  I appreciate the knowledge I'm gaining from this bbs. It helped me pass up the point freeze upsale that Wyndham tried to sell me of 64,000 points for over $9,000.


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## scootr5 (Aug 16, 2012)

rooktoknight said:


> Has Club Wyndham Access change their policy on the ARP 13 month window on resale.  I have a 126,000 point contract purchased through Wyndham and am looking to buy some more points resale (probably up to about 308,000).  When I met with a Wyndham rep today at Smugglers Notch today, I got the "you will not get ARP and VIP benefits with your resale points." I was told that when I try and book in the ARP window i will be allowed to utilize the 126,000 points for a reservation since they are "true" Wyndham points.  He even showed a coding on my account that showed that my 126,000 contract was a "yes" on Wyndham Purchase and told me that resale would be coded "no."  Thanks for the update.  I appreciate the knowledge I'm gaining from this bbs. It helped me pass up the point freeze upsale that Wyndham tried to sell me of 64,000 points for over $9,000.



No, no change - still just a sales lie.


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## antjmar (Aug 16, 2012)

mseburns said:


> There are now 5 resorts in the Myrtle Beach area and the other four all have ARP into Seawatch, but Seawatch owners do not have ARP into any of the other Myrtle Beach resorts.


I have resale seawatch points. Last month when I reserved using my ARP they asked which (myrtle beach) resort I would like to go to... Cant believe everything the salesman tell you!:mad

By any chance do you have a fixed week? If you do than what he said is true however you are *guaranteed *your week if you call prior to 10 months.


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## rrlongwell (Aug 16, 2012)

antjmar said:


> I have resale seawatch points. Last month when I reserved using my ARP they asked which (myrtle beach) resort I would like to go to... Cant believe everything the salesman tell you!:mad
> 
> By any chance do you have a fixed week? If you do than what he said is true however you are *guaranteed *your week if you call prior to 10 months.



I own at three of the Wyndham Myrtle Beach locations, SeaWatch Plantation and Westwinds have ARP rights into the Wyndham Myrtle Beach resorts at 13 month point (Westwinds, Ocean Blvd, Seawatch Plantation, etc.).  Towers on the Grove is Reciprical ARP at 11 months.  Do not know about the balance.  As far as I know, ARP rights do not tract to VIP eligable points and tract to ownership in the family of Myrtle Beach Resorts.   The members directory should be consulted for further sources on ARP and RARP rights.  I agree, just call reservations and ask.


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## DeniseM (Aug 16, 2012)

Please note that the original post is 12 mos. old (Aug. 2011.)


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## rooktoknight (Aug 16, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Please note that the original post is 12 mos. out (Aug. 2011.)



Sorry to stir up an old thread.  Came across it in my research of ARP use when buying resale and combining with existing Wyndham points in Club Access program.

And thank you very much for the prompt reply Scott


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## learnalot (Aug 16, 2012)

rooktoknight said:


> Sorry to stir up an old thread.  Came across it in my research of ARP use when buying resale and combining with existing Wyndham points in Club Access program.
> 
> And thank you very much for the prompt reply Scott



Just to clarify, during ARP, UDI points and Club Wyndham Access points do not combine necause they come from 2 different buckets.  This has nothing to do with resale vs developer - simply UDI vs CWA.  At 10 months, everything co-mingles.


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2012)

rooktoknight said:


> Has Club Wyndham Access change their policy on the ARP 13 month window on resale.  I have a 126,000 point contract purchased through Wyndham and am looking to buy some more points resale (probably up to about 308,000).  When I met with a Wyndham rep today at Smugglers Notch today, I got the "you will not get ARP and VIP benefits with your resale points." I was told that when I try and book in the ARP window i will be allowed to utilize the 126,000 points for a reservation since they are "true" Wyndham points.  He even showed a coding on my account that showed that my 126,000 contract was a "yes" on Wyndham Purchase and told me that resale would be coded "no."  Thanks for the update.  I appreciate the knowledge I'm gaining from this bbs. It helped me pass up the point freeze upsale that Wyndham tried to sell me of 64,000 points for over $9,000.



As noted all bull hockey from sales. Be thnakful you aren't paying to get the nearly worthless VIP nonsense and know that ARP goes with any purchase resale or ripoff retail. Pay no attention to 99% of what sales spews.


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## am1 (Aug 16, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> As noted all bull hockey from sales. Be thnakful you aren't paying to get the nearly worthless VIP nonsense and know that ARP goes with any purchase resale or ripoff retail. Pay no attention to 99% of what sales spews.



How is VIP worthless?  Every chance you get you say that but it is not true.


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2012)

am1 said:


> How is VIP worthless?  Every chance you get you say that but it is not true.



Worthless in the sense that no regular owner will ever see even a breakeven return on what it costs to purchase vs value received.  And that is true even if the current limited level of benefits was held steady but, as we all have seen, it is continuously eroded over time meaning the chance of breaking even  - forget making a profit above the outrageous retail costs - is even less. 

It is only a sales pitch to somehow make it appear that paying $20-$60K+ for ownerships that can be had for free to $5000 tops makes sense. Once the poor sucker realizes the mistake and the total lack of real value they just paid upfront for (thus the proper term "worthless") it is too late and they join those offering their now non-VIP ownership (to the next buyer) resale for pennies or free. It should be the definition of worthless in the new dictionaries. 

Of course there are those that obtained it back before resale was excluded and for them it remains a nice perk, but worthless for resale as it cannot be passed on (at least not through regular sales). 

The value of Wyndham points is the ease of cheap resale purchase & the system itself. VIP isn't needed and paying to get it is a major error in purchase today. It is that simple. Save your money and don't fall for yet another sales line meant to confuse the uninformed.


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## am1 (Aug 16, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Worthless in the sense that no regular owner will ever see even a breakeven return on what it costs to purchase vs value received.  And that is true even if the current limited level of benefits was held steady but, as we all have seen, it is continuously eroded over time meaning the chance of breaking even  - forget making a profit above the outrageous retail costs - is even less.
> 
> It is only a sales pitch to somehow make it appear that paying $20-$60K+ for ownerships that can be had for free to $5000 tops makes sense. Once the poor sucker realizes the mistake and the total lack of real value they just paid upfront for (thus the proper term "worthless") it is too late and they join those offering their now non-VIP ownership (to the next buyer) resale for pennies or free. It should be the definition of worthless in the new dictionaries.
> 
> ...



I will disagree.  VIP has value even if purchased today.  It all depends on how one plans to use it.  Especially if retail purchases have already been made.  Sure VIP is a loser on a whole when compared to resale but that not does not mean it is worthless for everyone.


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## rrlongwell (Aug 17, 2012)

am1 said:


> I will disagree.  VIP has value even if purchased today.  It all depends on how one plans to use it.  Especially if retail purchases have already been made.  Sure VIP is a loser on a whole when compared to resale but that not does not mean it is worthless for everyone.



http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165212&page=4


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## Cheryl20772 (Aug 17, 2012)

am1 said:


> How is VIP worthless?  Every chance you get you say that but it is not true.


The value it gives to me over a resale purchase will never give me enough compensation to make up the difference in price I paid over resale.  I will be dead before I got my value.  If one of our children wanted the Wyndham account when we are gone, they would realize the full value.  Sadly, I think our children neither want; nor can afford to take over the timeshares when we are gone.

You have resale at a few thousand today.
I have my VIP at a price of maybe $50K.  To be even, I would have to recover $50K in value from the VIP and I am too old to live enough years to make it happen.

To make sense of a retail TS purchase, you really do need to look at all angles.  We didn't before we signed a contract.  Now we just make the best we can of our purchase.  If I knew then what I learned shortly afterward, I never would have bought a TS retail.  

If you are young, maybe it can make sense in your life's economy.


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## antjmar (Aug 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Please note that the original post is 12 mos. old (Aug. 2011.)




I saw that After I replied! 



am1 said:


> I will disagree.  VIP has value even if purchased today.  It all depends on how one plans to use it.  Especially if retail purchases have already been made.  Sure VIP is a loser on a whole when compared to resale but that not does not mean it is worthless for everyone.



I am on the fence  about this.  I see some value but  dont think I can justify the HUGE cost. Have you gotten any offers from wyndham to become VIP with your resale points? If so curious how much $$$


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## ronparise (Aug 17, 2012)

antjmar said:


> I saw that After I replied!
> 
> 
> 
> I am on the fence  about this.  I see some value but  dont think I can justify the HUGE cost. Have you gotten any offers from wyndham to become VIP with your resale points? If so curious how much $$$



There is no question that VIP offers some great benefits. The 50% discount within 60 days of check in, free upgrades if available, unlimited housekeeping and transactions and 15 free guest certs. can add up to some significant value.  There are folks here that routinely stay in big Presidential units for the cost of a discounted studio or one bedroom.  

The question of course is it a value if you have to pay Wyndham 15-20 cents per point for that VIP membership. The over $150000 that a Platinum membership would cost you doesnt make sense to me You would be better buying twice as many points on the resale market and leave your $150000 in the bank.

However there are ways to get to VIP cheaper than by buying retail. for example I was offered a 900000 credit contract (probably a foreclosure) with an assumamble loan.  by Wyndham corporate sales  for $25000. and there is the PIC program you could use.

Back to the question; does it make sense to buy a VIP account?  I think yes, but only under one extreme circumstance. 

Remember that once you are VIP,  additional points you buy on the resale  market, enjoy the same VIP privileges. I think if your plan is to develop a rental business based on 10,000,000 or so points, you could justify paying for VIP. ie buy one million from Wyndham  (foreclosures, PIC and a small retail purchase) and another 9 million on the resale market. Your costs will be spread out over all 10000000 points and you will get the discount and upgrade options over all 10 million, 

For the casual vacationer, forget VIP, buy resale and leave your money in the bank..

And no.  Wyndham has never offered to take my resale points in trade for a VIP ownership, nor will they let me pay to convert my fixed weeks to VIP eligible points...I have asked numerous times.


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## antjmar (Aug 17, 2012)

Thanks, Ron.  I have about 750K looking to go VIP  plat. for the right price. But waiting till October to see what happens with the reservation software. 
FYI, No one in sales has ever offered me to gain VIP with my resale contracts. But I am in no rush...


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## timeos2 (Aug 17, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> The value it gives to me over a resale purchase will never give me enough compensation to make up the difference in price I paid over resale.  I will be dead before I got my value.  If one of our children wanted the Wyndham account when we are gone, they would realize the full value.  Sadly, I think our children neither want; nor can afford to take over the timeshares when we are gone.
> 
> You have resale at a few thousand today.
> I have my VIP at a price of maybe $50K.  To be even, I would have to recover $50K in value from the VIP and I am too old to live enough years to make it happen.
> ...



The truth as spoken by one who unfortunately bought into the extremely refined pitch. Don't fall for it. Listen to those that have experience and NEVER pay retail get the basically worthless "VIP" nonsense.


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## timeos2 (Aug 17, 2012)

ronparise said:


> *For the casual vacationer, forget VIP, buy resale and leave your money in the bank..*



Again - listen to EXPERIENCE! VIP is no deal for 99%+ of all potential buyers. If you decide to buy Wyndham buy ONLY resale for the best value and never, ever, even give a passing thought to the worthless VIP.  There is no way it can be a way to get value for your required upfront money. Not for the vast majority of buyers.


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## rrlongwell (Aug 17, 2012)

antjmar said:


> Thanks, Ron.  I have about 750K looking to go VIP  plat. for the right price. But waiting till October to see what happens with the reservation software.
> FYI, No one in sales has ever offered me to gain VIP with my resale contracts. But I am in no rush...



For 250,000 thousand points, you should be able to buy a relatively small points package and PIC up to two non-Wyndham Resort timeshares into it.

Hopefully, you already own one or two of them.

Denise (she assures me she is not the Denise of TUG fame) 407 626-6847 is the person you would need to talk to at Coorporate Sales.  She indicated that they have different inventory than the sales offices.  If you go through the Corporate Sales system, I am not sure they let you PIC any because of the step discounts they are giving.  They can sell VIP eligable points re-pros real cheap.


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## dxCoqui (Aug 17, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Worthless in the sense that no regular owner will ever see even a breakeven return on what it costs to purchase vs value received.  And that is true even if the current limited level of benefits was held steady but, as we all have seen, it is continuously eroded over time meaning the chance of breaking even  - forget making a profit above the outrageous retail costs - is even less.
> 
> It is only a sales pitch to somehow make it appear that paying $20-$60K+ for ownerships that can be had for free to $5000 tops makes sense. Once the poor sucker realizes the mistake and the total lack of real value they just paid upfront for (thus the proper term "worthless") it is too late and they join those offering their now non-VIP ownership (to the next buyer) resale for pennies or free. It should be the definition of worthless in the new dictionaries.
> 
> ...



I am new to timesharing, but based on what I have read in here in TUG, I have to agree wholeheartedly with your statement.  Even more that I know your are a fellow Rochesterian.  Whereabouts? I am in Henrietta...


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## timeos2 (Aug 17, 2012)

dxCoqui said:


> I am new to timesharing, but based on what I have read in here in TUG, I have to agree wholeheartedly with your statement.  Even more that I know your are a fellow Rochesterian.  Whereabouts? I am in Henrietta...



Yes, we Rochesterian's have it down, don't we? (Too bad we couldn't save Kodak from incompetent management, but that's another tale). I'm in Greece not far from Ridge Road West.  We'll have to meet sometime! Maybe at the new Dairy Queen or the "old" Abbott's?


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## dxCoqui (Aug 17, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Yes, we Rochesterian's have it down, don't we? (Too bad we couldn't save Kodak from incompetent management, but that's another tale). I'm in Greece not far from Ridge Road West.  We'll have to meet sometime! Maybe at the new Dairy Queen or the "old" Abbott's?



It is good to know I have a local expert to ask questions once I close on my resent purchase of _*re-sale*_ points...


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## markb53 (Aug 17, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Remember that once you are VIP,  additional points you buy on the resale  market, enjoy the same VIP privileges. I think if your plan is to develop a rental business based on 10,000,000 or so points, you could justify paying for VIP. ie buy one million from Wyndham  (foreclosures, PIC and a small retail purchase) and another 9 million on the resale market. Your costs will be spread out over all 10000000 points and you will get the discount and upgrade options over all 10 million, .



The only problem I see with that is, Wyndham could change the software to make is so the additional resale points you buy above your VIP point don't enjoy the benifits of VIP. Since VIP is not a guaranteed feature, they could change it any time. The only reason I can think of that they haven't done exactly that already, is that they are using it successfully as a sales tool to convince "victims" to go to VIP. I did have one sales associate tell me to get to VIP silver then buy everything resale.


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## antjmar (Aug 17, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> For 250,000 thousand points, you should be able to buy a relatively small points package and PIC up to two non-Wyndham Resort timeshares into it.
> 
> Hopefully, you already own one or two of them.
> 
> Denise (she assures me she is not the Denise of TUG fame) 407 626-6847 is the person you would need to talk to at Coorporate Sales.  She indicated that they have different inventory than the sales offices.  If you go through the Corporate Sales system, I am not sure they let you PIC any because of the step discounts they are giving.  They can sell VIP eligable points re-pros real cheap.



Thanks Ill save that number for the fall!


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## ronparise (Aug 17, 2012)

antjmar said:


> Thanks, Ron.  I have about 750K looking to go VIP  plat. for the right price. But waiting till October to see what happens with the reservation software.
> FYI, No one in sales has ever offered me to gain VIP with my resale contracts. But I am in no rush...



Im in pretty much the same situation at 385 VIP points and wanting Platinum.  I assume from your post that you are already gold. If so you could do as RRLongwell suggests and buy a foreclosed deal, or what Ive heard them call an assumable loan. or you can PIC in a non wyndham week with a small retail purchase. (As long as you dont already have 2 weeks PICed already)

Im waiting for that new software program too, but Im still buying resale contracts


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## e.bram (Aug 18, 2012)

John:
The reason that Kodak went belly up is they remained in Rochester instead of moving to NYC, Boston, SF etc where the young talented people want to be.
Even Cornell is moving to NYC to attract those type people.


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