# Bought 1000 DC points today



## Eli Mairs (Nov 5, 2015)

We have two Barony weeks - a platinum and a bronze, which we enrolled in the DC program several years ago. We later purchased 1000 points but rescinded.

Today, we went to Lakeshore Reserve for a presentation, because they were persistent, and were offering a $175 Visa gift card. We had no intention to purchase any points.

However, they offered to take back our bronze week at no cost to us. We have wanted to get rid of this week for years due to the maintenance fees and the low trading power.
So, we will save approximately $700/year in maintenance fees.

We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.
Also, we were told that the minimum points purchase is now 2,000 points, (but they offered  us a 1,000 points purchase, because we previously rescinded)

Is all of this true?


----------



## GregT (Nov 5, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> We have two Barony weeks - a platinum and a bronze, which we enrolled in the DC program several years ago. We later purchased 1000 points but rescinded.
> 
> Today, we went to Lakeshore Reserve for a presentation, because they were persistent, and were offering a $175 Visa gift card. We had no intention to purchase any points.
> 
> ...



Well, other TUGgers have reported being able to buy 1,000 Trust Points even though they are told 1,500/2,000/2,500 is the minimum.  Marriott will sell what they can.

And your enrolled week will not become Trust Points.  But Elected Points and Trust Points appear to function equivalently, so it's not a huge distinction, but it's not true.

And they took your bronze week, and I don't know how easy it would have been to give it away.

So, for $12K, it appears that you:

1) Cut your MFs
2) Received 1,000 Trust Points to go with your one remaining week
3) Got rid of your mud week

I think the key thing here is that you got rid of your mud week and cut your MFs.  There may have been more cost-effective ways to accomplish this than pay $12K to Marriott.  I don't know if 1,000 points is going to significantly change your ability to use the system and I would bet that you will be renting more/buying more points in the future.

I hope this is helpful?  Happy to discuss further.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 6, 2015)

GregT said:


> Well, other TUGgers have reported being able to buy 1,000 Trust Points even though they are told 1,500/2,000/2,500 is the minimum.  Marriott will sell what they can.
> 
> And your enrolled week will not become Trust Points.  But Elected Points and Trust Points appear to function equivalently, so it's not a huge distinction, but it's not true.
> 
> ...



Hi Greg:

Thank you for your comments.
I know that the 1,000 points won't change our ability to use the system, but we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well.
If you know of a less costly way to get rid of the bronze week, please let me know
I have emailed our sales person requesting written confirmation about the points usage.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 6, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> ...we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well...
> 
> I have emailed our sales person requesting written confirmation about the points usage.



Just to be sure you are clear...you will continue to have two buckets - 3475 enrolled points and 1000 trust points. Enrolled points do not magically get converted to the Trust. But I don't think that your sales person was trying to say the enrolled points suddenly become Trust points.

I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time. For most reservations, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust points or enrolled points - legally they are still two separate pools of points - but functionally from a usage standpoint they can be used interchangeably, combined, etc.

Technically, some small number of reservations may be bookable only with Trust points (some on TUG have reported this) but that is rare so far. In most cases, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust or enrolled. Sales people have been claiming for years that buying Trust points will "supercharge" your enrolled points and allow them to book Trust-only inventory (I think that was the claim your rep was making here), but I don't think TUGgers have seen any evidence of this in the real world. In any event, it's so far been a moot point anyway, as Trust or enrolled points can book the vast majority of the reservations in the system.


----------



## Fasttr (Nov 6, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time. For most reservations, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust points or enrolled points - legally they are still two separate pools of points - but functionally from a usage standpoint they can be used interchangeably, combined, etc.



One thing worth pointing out is that when making a reservation with combined Trust and Enrolled (Legacy) points, I have found that each night of the ressie must be booked with one type or the other.  Said another way, any individual night cannot be booked with combined points.   

The different type of points, can be combined within a multiple night ressie, but you have to have a quantity of one type of the other to cover individual nights.  

As an example, If you are booking a 1000 point 2 night ressie, and say the first night takes 700 points and the second night takes 300 points, if you only have 500 Trust points and 500 Enrolled points available, you will not be able to book the 2 night ressie, even though you have the total number of points needed.


----------



## davidvel (Nov 6, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time.


Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:


> We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.


This "morphing" lie is obviously how they convince enrolled owners to pay $$ when they could simply rent the points as lees than the MF/pt. and no outlay upfront. I don't understand why you're diminishing it.


----------



## davidvel (Nov 6, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Hi Greg:
> 
> Thank you for your comments.
> I know that the 1,000 points won't change our ability to use the system, but we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well.
> ...


I am surprised no one has suggested that you *RESCIND* your purchase. It is strange you are concerned about saving a few hundred bucks in MF (and losing your usage), but gladly dishing out $12,000.00. The math (or budgeting) here seems off to me. This is especially true since you are enrolled and can rent as many points as you want (only when you want) for less than the MF/pt, and no $12,000.00 outlay.  

You are paying $200/yr less on MF (as you will pay over $500/yr on your new points.) But this cost you $12,000.00, so really you won't be "saving" anything (if you see it that way) for *60 years*.  

P.S. Even if you received it, which I doubt, written confirmation doesn't affect the contract you signed which disclaims all of this.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:



Probably because what this OP heard from a rep isn't anything new and exciting;  it's been said many different ways but disproven consistently on TUG.

Trust Points must correlate to intervals conveyed to the Trust and Exchange Points must correlate to enrolled Weeks.  Trust Members have direct access to intervals in the Trust as well as to intervals in the Exchange Company.  Exchange Members have direct access to only the intervals in the Exchange Company.  Owners of both types of Points can combine them to reserve a single reservation but in the case of an interval with one or more nights originating in the Trust, only if each night of the stay can be booked by one type of Points or the other.  As others have said MVW is managing all inventory such that the majority of reservations are made available through the Exchange Company, which makes for what appears to be an almost seamless integration of Trust and Exchange inventory (and which is the basis for what's said by sales reps,) but there are and will be occasional instances where the originations of the Points and/or the intervals will prevent obtaining a desired reservation. 

There's been no indication of amendments to the Trust/DC governing docs which would result in Exchange Points being able to morph into Trust Points.  It simply can't happen without such amendments - and it's a giant technical hurdle that would impact many, many, MANY other aspects of the entire program.  The morphing can't happen unless MVW allows an Owner to permanently exchange a Week for Trust Points, because then MVW could convey the Week to the Trust.  There is currently no mechanism in the program that allows an enrolled Week to generate Trust Points either on an annual elective basis or permanently.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> ... This "morphing" lie is obviously how they convince enrolled owners to pay $$ when they could simply rent the points as lees than the MF/pt. and no outlay upfront. I don't understand why you're diminishing it.



(Sorry, I missed your edit while I was typing.)

I agree, this continuing "morphing" talk from reps probably gets them a lot of sales (and I think it's important for TUGgers to continue to debunk it.)  But I can think of other reasons why Owners of Enrolled Weeks might choose to purchase Trust Points, probably the number one reason being that they're not interested in playing in the rental sandbox.  As long as they're informed, it makes no difference to me that they choose an option that may not be the most economical.

Regardless, for this OP it seemed to be the primary driver so I also hope that rescission is being considered.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> I am surprised no one has suggested that you *RESCIND* your purchase. It is strange you are concerned about saving a few hundred bucks in MF (and losing your usage), but gladly dishing out $12,000.00. The math (or budgeting) here seems off to me. This is especially true since you are enrolled and can rent as many points as you want (only when you want) for less than the MF/pt, and no $12,000.00 outlay.
> 
> You are paying $200/yr less on MF (as you will pay over $500/yr on your new points.) But this cost you $12,000.00, so really you won't be "saving" anything (if you see it that way) for *60 years*.
> 
> P.S. Even if you received it, which I doubt, written confirmation doesn't affect the contract you signed which disclaims all of this.



Actually, I think the OP meant his *net* savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.

A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.

If I were in the OP's position, I think easily getting rid of the Bronze week and the associated MF would make this deal more appealing than if it were just about acquiring points. The Trust points replace the point value of the Bronze week at a lower cost. Yes it takes 17 years to recoup the upfront $12K, but I think it's nice to be able to just give that week back to Marriott rather than having to list it and try to find someone to give it to. Avoiding trouble and hassle is worth something, although that value can't be quantified and varies from person to person.

Yes, point rentals are an alternative to this deal, but again, if it were me, I know I would prefer to own the amount of points that I think I could be sure I can use every year since owned points have more flexibility in being able to bank and borrow. I like point rentals, but probably only as a way to supplement my owned points in any given year to help cover those years when my needs exceed what I own.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 6, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time.





davidvel said:


> Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I said that because in post #3, the OP said:



> we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together.



I wasn't trying to minimize what the sales rep claimed (in fact, I mentioned further down in my post that the supercharging claim had long been debunked by TUGgers), I was just pointing out that Trust points and Enrolled points can be used together - enrolled points do not have to "convert" to Trust points for them to function as one pool. With the exception of the situations noted by Fasttr, I was pointing out that having one bucket is irrelevant as long as the two buckets (trust and enrolled) more or less seamlessly function as one. That seemed to be what the OP was looking for.


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 6, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Actually, I think the OP meant his *net* savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.
> 
> A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.



Yes, the savings would be approximately $700.00.

The bronze week is oceanside, worth 775 points.

I must apologize. 
My husband pointed out, after reading my post, that the salesman did not say that our enrolled points would become trust points. 
He said that one enrolled point would equal one trust point.
He was actually one of the nicer salesmen we have dealt with. He didn't try to pressure us into buying a higher number of points.
We'll see how he responds to our email asking for clarification.


----------



## davidvel (Nov 6, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Actually, I think the OP meant his *net* savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.
> 
> A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.
> 
> ...


Ok. 
But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?


----------



## davidvel (Nov 6, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Yes, the savings would be approximately $700.00.
> 
> The bronze week is oceanside, worth 775 points.
> 
> ...


Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years. 

Sounds like a great deal. 

Or in reality, you should *RESCIND.*


----------



## davidvel (Nov 6, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> But I can think of other reasons why Owners of Enrolled Weeks might choose to purchase Trust Points, probably the number one reason being that they're not interested in playing in the rental sandbox.


I always have fun in the sand. 
Is the rental sandbox bad?  
Is avoiding it worth $12,000.00?


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years.
> 
> Sounds like a great deal.
> 
> Or in reality, you should *RESCIND.*



Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week.

Over the past few years we have noticed a substantial decrease in exchange availability. Our bronze week gets very little until a couple of months out. Even our platinum week has shown diminished trading power.

We're not too happy about having to buy more points, but if it rids us of the bronze week, it will be worth it in the end. 

If anyone out there has a better idea of how to get rid of the bronze week in a more cost effective way, please let me know in the next week, while we are able to rescind.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> I always have fun in the sand.
> Is the rental sandbox bad?
> Is avoiding it worth $12,000.00?



Isn't that a personal question?  Some folks don't like being sandy, and it's not up to any of us to decide how/whether folks should be spending their own money.  Isn't it enough that we're willing to give them the information and let them make up their own - informed - minds?


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Ok.
> But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?



Why is it that any TUGgers who can see value - however it's personally measured - in seriously considering the myriad options available for purchasing direct from Marriott, are so often accused of being Marriott employees, of having ulterior motives?

We know enough from what Jim has freely posted here over a long enough period that he's happy with the Marriott products he owns and the way he purchased them.  Even if he were a sales rep, which I don't know personally but don't believe he is, so what?  He's a satisfied owner sharing his experience in the hope of educating others.  It's one thing to call out sales reps when they misuse and abuse TUG in order to further their own aims - which has been done on TUG successfully several times.  It's quite another to accuse folks of doing it when there's no basis for the accusation, which IMO happens far too often.  It's sad.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 6, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week. ...
> 
> If anyone out there has a better idea of how to get rid of the bronze week in a more cost effective way, please let me know in the next week, while we are able to rescind.



I'm assuming that you've contacted Marriott Resales to see if they're willing to buy it back, and that as a Bronze Week it has no value for them.  If you haven't, review this thread and use the link in the first post to get the contact information off  their "Sell Weeks" page - it can't hurt and may help.  Good luck!


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 6, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm assuming that you've contacted Marriott Resales to see if they're willing to buy it back, and that as a Bronze Week it has no value for them.  If you haven't, review this thread and use the link in the first post to get the contact information off  their "Sell Weeks" page - it can't hurt and may help.  Good luck!



Actually, we have not done that, but will contact them on Monday.

Thanks! Not optimistic that they will take it back, but it's worth asking them.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 6, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Ok.
> But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?



Absolutely not! Spent most of my career in banking (hence my penchant for "numbers"), now I'm in the aviation publishing and photography business. You can see some of my aviation and space photos  here. 

Everyone has different measures of value. Many on TUG enjoy "working" the system to get the absolute best value - whether that means playing the trading game in depth, doing consumer-to-consumer rentals to save a few bucks (or make money if they are on the landlord side of the transaction), etc. Often the advice I read assumes everyone has that same definition of "value" and is willing to work the system to get the lowest cost. So I try to offer a different perspective where getting something for the absolute lowest cost may not be the only desired goal. 

I felt the OP had a unique situation where they needed to unload a hard to dump Bronze week. I felt the offer they accepted - while maybe not the absolute lowest cost option - offered some intangible benefits like lowering their annual MF outlay while increasing their amount of available points and ridding themselves of the week. Based on the way I think about it, it seemed like a reasonable deal as a one-stop-shop way of rebalancing their ownership. But if getting the absolute lowest cost is their goal, even if it means more work, there may be other options. But other than the direct buyback option Sue suggested they explore (and I agree with that if they think they can make do with only 3475 annual points instead of 4475), in my opinion, few other options offer the simplicity of the offer Marriott made to them.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 7, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Why is it that any TUGgers who can see value - however it's personally measured - in seriously considering the myriad options available for purchasing direct from Marriott, are so often accused of being Marriott employees, of having ulterior motives?
> 
> We know enough from what Jim has freely posted here over a long enough period that he's happy with the Marriott products he owns and the way he purchased them.....He's a satisfied owner sharing his experience in the hope of educating others.  It's one thing to call out sales reps when they misuse and abuse TUG in order to further their own aims - which has been done on TUG successfully several times.  It's quite another to accuse folks of doing it when there's no basis for the accusation, which IMO happens far too often.  It's sad.



Thank you for those comments, Sue.  It is a point that needs to be made.  I still remember shortly after I started on TUG the DC program was rolled out and I made a number of comments that were somewhat positive about the possibilities.  I was attacked quite strongly by several TUGGERs as being a Marriott employee to the point where I almost did not come back here.  It still rankles, and frankly makes me still wary of TUG, but thankfully most of the most offensive attackers have since disappeared.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 7, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years.
> 
> Sounds like a great deal.
> 
> Or in reality, you should *RESCIND.*



I am sure glad you know what is best for everyone.  I wish I were so wise.  I actually thought the OP had some good reasons for her transaction.  And by the way, that $700 savings is almost a 6% return.  Not that bad.


----------



## GreenTea (Nov 7, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week.
> 
> Over the past few years we have noticed a substantial decrease in exchange availability. Our bronze week gets very little until a couple of months out. Even our platinum week has shown diminished trading power.
> 
> ...



You can give your bronze week away.  For free, someone would probably like it.


----------



## kds4 (Nov 7, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Isn't that a personal question?  Some folks don't like being sandy, and it's not up to any of us to decide how/whether folks should be spending their own money.  Isn't it enough that we're willing to give them the information and let them make up their own - informed - minds?



For me it's more all the sand that gets in unintended and rather uncomfortable places ...


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 7, 2015)

*Rescinded*

Thanks Tuggers for all your help in pointing out the pros and cons to us.

We decided to rescind, as we did not feel comfortable proceeding with the contract.

Although our bronze week has no cash value, we realized that it does have a points value of 775 points. It didn't seem to make financial sense to spend more than $12,000 (almost $16,000 in our cdn) for a net increase of 250 points, since we would be giving Marriott the week/775 points for free.

As someone pointed out, it would take 17 years to break even and to start realizing the $700. annual savings in maintenance fees. My husband and I will be approaching ninety by then, if we live that long.

So, I will continue to trade the bronze week, and perhaps use the points on occasion, if a few extra points are needed for a particular reservation. I may also try to give it away, as our platinum week points have been sufficient to get what we want in off season, when we prefer to travel.
Trying to use the bronze week takes time and effort,  but we have always managed to get a decent Marriott exchange in the end.

Regards
Eli


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 7, 2015)

I'm glad you've been able to reach a comfortable decision.  

You may still want to contact Marriott Resales just to see if they're interested in buying back/brokering your Barony Beach Bronze week, as you still have concerns about how much usage value you'll get from it going forward.  If you contact them you'll be under no obligation to go through with whatever options they may give you.  Again, good luck!


----------



## taterhed (Nov 7, 2015)

Just remember.....   If they offered you the deal once (or any similar deal) they will gladly offer it again.  All you have done is give yourself more time to digest and think about what is best for YOU and not Mother Marriott (or someone else).  Perhaps TUG members will give you some other suggestions that might serve you better with less cash.  Lots of good knowledge here...that's for sure.  good luck


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## davidvel (Nov 7, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Why is it that any TUGgers who can see value - however it's personally measured - in seriously considering the myriad options available for purchasing direct from Marriott, are so often accused of being Marriott employees, of having ulterior motives?
> 
> We know enough from what Jim has freely posted here over a long enough period that he's happy with the Marriott products he owns and the way he purchased them.  Even if he were a sales rep, which I don't know personally but don't believe he is, so what?  He's a satisfied owner sharing his experience in the hope of educating others.  It's one thing to call out sales reps when they misuse and abuse TUG in order to further their own aims - which has been done on TUG successfully several times.  It's quite another to accuse folks of doing it when there's no basis for the accusation, which IMO happens far too often.  It's sad.


Sorry  to Jim and all who thought i was seriously  "accusing" Jim of being a sales rep. I thought the green grin connoted jest,  but maybe i was wrong. 

But i did think the post sounded like a lot of spiels, even if he's not actually a sales rep.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 8, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Sorry  to Jim and all who thought i was seriously  "accusing" Jim of being a sales rep. I thought the green grin connoted jest,  but maybe i was wrong.
> 
> But i did think the post sounded like a lot of spiels, even if he's not actually a sales rep.



I thought Jim's post was well written, very objective and made a lot of sense.  It did not sound at all like a sales spiel.  And I did not see jest in your comments.  You may not agree, but that's how I saw it.


----------



## puckmanfl (Nov 8, 2015)

good morning...

Would like to chime in with a humble suggestion....  and No, I am not an employee or sales rep...:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Could you not just use the bronze week as a Flexchange chip....Use it for less than 60 day out trips..Usually some real hidden gems can be had.  Make it a game!!! Every year, plan one spontaneous trip usingthe Bronze week at less than 60 days out....

enjoy...


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 8, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning...
> 
> Would like to chime in with a humble suggestion....  and No, I am not an employee or sales rep...:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
> 
> ...



Haha!
That's what we have been doing, and yes, we usually get something good within sixty days.
However, I'm still working part time, so it isn't always easy being flexible.
It can be stressful, when trying to plan ahead, and combine weeks for a longer vacation.
No worries, I will continue to make it work


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 11, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Ok.
> But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?





BocaBoy said:


> I thought Jim's post was well written, very objective and made a lot of sense.  It did not sound at all like a sales spiel.  And I did not see jest in your comments.  You may not agree, but that's how I saw it.



The use of emoticons is to express what one really can't bring across in the written word. If I was speaking to a friend or aquaintance a similar statement with a grin on my face it would be taken completly differently than the same statement written in a forum or group. The use of the grin smiley is to show what you can't in written word. The smiley would indicatge the post is in jest. That is how I would take it. Whsat is the purpose of the smileys otherwise? I guess ones opinion onDsvid's post  depends on your perspective?

Jim's post does come across very much of how a sales rep would try to sell the product in the OPs situation. I certainly don't think Jim is a sales rep and it seems that what the OP is looking to do may work for them. If they are used to trading the Barony week for DC points, then they will come out ahead. If they are using it for trading in II, they may not get the same value from 1,000 DC point. Given though that Barony is a non lockoff property, the deal is not bad. Had they given up a lock off week, I would think that it would be better to have kept the lock off than to buy 1,000 DC points, even with the difference in MFs.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 12, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> The use of emoticons is to express what one really can't bring across in the written word....What is the purpose of the smileys otherwise? I guess ones opinion on David's post depends on your perspective?



I think it depends heavily on the context of his previous posts in this thread, which were anything but in jest.  In my opinion, you can't change that by repeating the same charge you have just been seriously making in multiple posts and then simply adding an emoticon.


----------



## davidvel (Nov 13, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> I think it depends heavily on the context of his previous posts in this thread, which were anything but in jest.  In my opinion, *you can't change that by repeating the same charge you have just been seriously making in multiple posts* and then simply adding an emoticon.


This first time I joked  about him being a sales rep was in that post (#13), so not sure where you're getting this. 

Recognizing that Jim is NOT a sales rep, I still feel looking back days later that Jim's arguments were similar, if not identical, to pitches I have received from salespeople. 

But there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone presents a different viewpoint, and that adds to the collective discussion here.


----------



## m61376 (Nov 13, 2015)

GreenTea said:


> You can give your bronze week away.  For free, someone would probably like it.



There are several posters here that love HH in the winter. You might want to rescind and place an ad here on Tug, offering it for free, and see if you get any bites. Even a free ad on Redweek might b worth your time. The you could save the 12K and rent points as needed on an annual basis, for not much more than your MF's would otherwise be, and without a 12K outlay. And you wouldn't have to worry about using all your points in a given year and, if you elected to go to Barony or trade in II in a given year, wouldn't have to be concerned about what to do with 1000 points. 

Of course, only you can evaluate whether the "just get rid of it" and the extra 1000 points to use annually is worth the 12K to you. As Sue and others have pointed out, the best function of Tug is to explain the pros and cons of the different options so you can make an informed decision. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 13, 2015)

m61376 said:


> There are several posters here that love HH in the winter. You might want to rescind and place an ad here on Tug, offering it for free, and see if you get any bites. Even a free ad on Redweek might b worth your time. The you could save the 12K and rent points as needed on an annual basis, for not much more than your MF's would otherwise be, and without a 12K outlay. And you wouldn't have to worry about using all your points in a given year and, if you elected to go to Barony or trade in II in a given year, wouldn't have to be concerned about what to do with 1000 points.
> 
> Of course, only you can evaluate whether the "just get rid of it" and the extra 1000 points to use annually is worth the 12K to you. As Sue and others have pointed out, the best function of Tug is to explain the pros and cons of the different options so you can make an informed decision. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.



Thanks for your advice.

I did rescind, and will now figure things out.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 13, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Recognizing that Jim is NOT a sales rep, I still feel looking back days later that Jim's arguments were similar, if not identical, to pitches I have received from salespeople.



Just for the record, I took no offense at all at the "accusation," because I recognized that it was at least partially said in jest due to the "big grin smiley". And I knew from previous thread discussions that David isn't a big fan of buying points vs weeks. So there's absolutely no issue personally on my end.

But, I do think Sue and BocaBoy have a point, that there is a tendency on TUG to look suspiciously on comments that say anything positive about an offer made by a developer. The implication is that the only way someone could have a positive view about a developer-sold product is if they are spewing sales spiel. Often, even when such an implication is made in jest, it still indicates that the joker questions the validity of the argument. The term "sales spiel" is often used interchangeably with B.S.

The fact is, some of us like the points product better than the weeks product for very specific reasons. (And we were late to the party, so we didn't get the advantage of enrolling pre-2010 weeks without a qualifying points buy.) The way Marriott has structured their points program, if a buyer wants the points product instead of the weeks product, buying from Marriott is often a reasonable solution. (After junk fees, resale points cost about the same as a hybrid bundle, for example.) If we see positives in an offering and point them out, that's more than just "spiel."


----------



## skyequeen (Nov 13, 2015)

*Bought hybrid for good average cost*

I swore would not buy more Marriott, but we just did a hybrid Aruba week and 3000 points package for $7.28/point.  This ups our average to $6.74 per point.  The cost of the resale week was less than 2/3 what we paid originally preconstruction and the entire package about what people paid just for a week before points were introduced.  This is more than a dollar a point less than we were offered last year in a package including a gold Newport Coast.  I had wanted another Aruba platinum week and really didn't want weeks out of the system or places I don't usually go. When they came up with this package I decided it was good for us.  Of course, now we have to pay for it and have a lot more maintenance fees to pay.  I know it is possible to rent points and weeks, but I just want to deal with my own.  As we get older having things simpler will be important.  Or if our kids inherit.  I looked into all the options Tuggers use so effectively and realized I just didn't want to do it.  However, I learned about the existence of the packages on Tug and appreciate it.


----------



## SueDonJ (Nov 13, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> ... But, I do think Sue and BocaBoy have a point, that there is a tendency on TUG to look suspiciously on comments that say anything positive about an offer made by a developer. The implication is that the only way someone could have a positive view about a developer-sold product is if they are spewing sales spiel. Often, even when such an implication is made in jest, it still indicates that the joker questions the validity of the argument. The term "sales spiel" is often used interchangeably with B.S. ...



The implication I have always read into such comments, whether they're meant in jest or not, is that any purchase direct from a Developer can never be anything but a bad purchase, an uninformed purchase.  Maybe I'm sensitive to it as I've also been ridiculed for it going all the way back to my first days on TUG when the low-inventory/high-demand intervals we bought direct (SurfWatch 3BR) weren't available at a measurable cost savings on the external resale market.

Then the naysayers' advice was overwhelmingly that we should rescind and buy something less expensively on the external resale market that could be used to exchange through II, despite the low odds of us actually getting the specific usage we wanted (Memorial Day week.)  It made no sense to me at the time and still doesn't that we should be willing to forego our desired usage just because other usage options were available at a lower price.  Now the naysayers' advice is that DC Points shouldn't be purchased because Weeks are available, and that if somebody insists on "foolishly" purchasing DC Points they should only be purchased on the external resale market.

Now, as then, there can be legitimate reasons to purchase direct from MVW - either DC Points or Weeks that can be bundled with DC Points through a Marriott Resales Operations bundle package.  And on the flip side, now as then the external resale market may in fact be a better purchase option depending on an intended usage pattern.  There is no "one size fits all!"

davidvel, I apologize if you feel that I called you out unfairly.  My intent wasn't to ridicule your thought process, the same as your intent wasn't to ridicule Jim's.  This is a sore spot with some of us and always will be, and I appreciate that the true intent of your post may have gotten lost in the shuffle.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 13, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> The implication I have always read into such comments, whether they're meant in jest or not, is that any purchase direct from a Developer can never be anything but a bad purchase, an uninformed purchase.  Maybe I'm sensitive to it as I've also been ridiculed for it going all the way back to my first days on TUG when the low-inventory/high-demand intervals we bought direct (SurfWatch 3BR) weren't available at a measurable cost savings on the external resale market.
> 
> Then the naysayers' advice was overwhelmingly that we should rescind and buy something less expensively on the external resale market that could be used to exchange through II, despite the low odds of us actually getting the specific usage we wanted (Memorial Day week.)  It made no sense to me at the time and still doesn't that we should be willing to forego our desired usage just because other usage options were available at a lower price.



Yep. We had the same experience back in 1998 when we bought from the developer at the Embassy Vacation Resort on Maui (now Kaanapali Beach Club). We were repeatedly scolded on TUG that we we should instead buy a resale at one of the older, lower quality resorts in Kahana or Kihei (Many didn't even have A/C), or buy somewhere else and try to trade into one of those Kahana or Kihei resorts that we really didn't want to stay at. That was 17 years ago. The more things change the more they stay the same.

That was also pre-MOC and pre-Westin timeshare, so at the time, Embassy was the only resort-type timeshare on Maui. There were only 8 upper floor 2BR units out of 413 total at the resort so these were like your 3BR Surfwatch - low-inventory/high demand, and we knew it would be several years before resales would be available at a discount. In fact, as late as 2003 - 2005 (maybe even later), Timeshare Resales Hawaii was selling 2BR Embassy intervals for not much less than we paid (about $19K). They can, of course, be had for a song now (as we can attest after selling ours for about $5K last fall).

As was your case at Surfwatch, the specific usage we wanted, with the certainty we wanted, was only obtainable by buying from the developer at the time. One size definitely doesn't fit all.

But despite those annoyances, TUG is still a wonderful community and a wonderful resource. The most important thing is to use all of the varied opinions here to become informed, know what the options are, and make a logical decision based upon YOUR needs and YOUR preferences - not the needs or preferences of other TUGers, or the "sales spiel" from a timeshare salesman.


----------



## JIMinNC (Nov 13, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Recognizing that Jim is NOT a sales rep, I still feel looking back days later that Jim's arguments were similar, if not identical, to pitches I have received from salespeople.



David,

I meant to mention earlier that your sales rep "question" was actually kind of funny and ironic to me. In the 17 years that we've owned one timeshare or another, I've come to be fascinated by the business itself, and had sometimes thought in the back of my mind that whenever retirement comes along, maybe moving to a resort area like Hilton Head and getting a job selling timeshares might be fun. 

But the truth is, I would be a terrible timeshare salesman. While I have always felt I could probably construct a reasonable sales pitch for the occasional well-informed prospect who might have a situation where there was a reasonable business case for a direct purchase, there would be no way that I could ever bring myself to spin things the way they do to try to convince folks to buy who have no business buying. I tend to be driven by fact-based arguments, and would be terrible trying to use the emotional appeals and tactics that sales reps often use. I would probably be fired after the first month or two of not meeting my quota.


----------



## bogey21 (Nov 13, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I felt the OP had a unique situation where they needed to unload a hard to dump Bronze week. I felt the offer they accepted - while maybe not the absolute lowest cost option - offered some intangible benefits like lowering their annual MF outlay while increasing their amount of available points and ridding themselves of the week. Based on the way I think about it, it seemed like a reasonable deal as a one-stop-shop way of rebalancing their ownership.



I like this answer, and yes, I would not have recinded.  Said another way, it may not have been a perfect deal financially but it was decisive and IMO accomplished what OP wanted to accomplish.  

George


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 13, 2015)

davidvel said:


> This first time I joked  about him being a sales rep was in that post (#13), so not sure where you're getting this.
> 
> Recognizing that Jim is NOT a sales rep, I still feel looking back days later that Jim's arguments were similar, if not identical, to pitches I have received from salespeople.
> 
> But there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone presents a different viewpoint, and that adds to the collective discussion here.



Perhaps I was a little less precise about the context than I should have been.  Your comments to Jim followed what I feel were unpleasant attacks on the OP's thinking, and when Jim presented a different perspective you made the sales rep point.  Perhaps I was wrong, but I took the emoticon as a way to try to lighten up what was a serious comment.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 13, 2015)

m61376 said:


> There are several posters here that love HH in the winter. You might want to rescind and place an ad here on Tug, offering it for free, and see if you get any bites.



The problem with this is that one can rent a January week with DC points, or even cash with the MVCI discount, for a lot less that the maintenance fees for that week.  And availability is easy to get.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 13, 2015)

I am not really sure why some are sensitive to the advice to rescind a direct purchase. The OP made it a point to come here and start the thread, so they may have been questioning their purchase? They were also told some untruths by the sales staff.

A lot of responses are made to a single thread, I don't think most would read through all of the advice and make a decision based off a single post. So seeing different viewpoints is a good thing. I don't think it would a very good thing to see everyone responding simply agreeing with the OPs purchase decision and giving a collective pat on the back. 

While it did seem that the OP was well informed of their decision, advice to rescind is still never bad advice. The OP obviously found it to be good advice since they did follow it and rescinded. I don't think we should ridicule anyone's advice, whichever side of the opinion it seems to be on. Obviously the lines become blurred when people are joking among friends. The context would be different if we were all standing in a room together instead of reading the written word.


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 13, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not really sure why some are sensitive to the advice to rescind a direct purchase. The OP made it a point to come here and start the thread, so they may have been questioning their purchase? They were also told some untruths by the sales staff.
> 
> A lot of responses are made to a single thread, I don't think most would read through all of the advice and make a decision based off a single post. So seeing different viewpoints is a good thing. I don't think it would a very good thing to see everyone responding simply agreeing with the OPs purchase decision and giving a collective pat on the back.
> 
> While it did seem that the OP was well informed of their decision, advice to rescind is still never bad advice. The OP obviously found it to be good advice since they did follow it and rescinded. I don't think we should ridicule anyone's advice, whichever side of the opinion it seems to be on. Obviously the lines become blurred when people are joking among friends. The context would be different if we were all standing in a room together instead of reading the written word.



You are correct. We were questioning our purchase. I wanted Tuggers' advice, and appreciated everyone's input.
Buying the 1,000 points would create a planning burden, as we would have to figure out what to do with them each year, especially if we decided to use our week instead of taking the points. 
Giving our bronze week back to Marriott didn't seem to make financial sense in the end, since the week has some value - 750 points. We would be paying a high cost for little points gain, despite the extra maintenance fees.
We are relieved, and happy with our decision to rescind.


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 14, 2015)

And with that, davidvel and dioxide can drop the mic...


----------



## taterhed (Nov 14, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> And with that, davidvel and dioxide can drop the mic...





Sent from my cell...


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 14, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> We would be paying a high cost for little points gain, despite the extra maintenance fees.
> We are relieved, and happy with our decision to rescind.



And if you ever change your mind and want to again get rid of your dog week, a TUG, ebay, or redweek  add sweetened with a mild financial incentive, FAR FAR less than $12k, will guarantee a taker.


----------



## BocaBoy (Nov 17, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not really sure why some are sensitive to the advice to rescind a direct purchase. The OP made it a point to come here and start the thread, so they may have been questioning their purchase?



It is not the advice to rescind that I question, but rather the clear attitude behind that advice.


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 23, 2015)

*Update*

Marriott is taking back our bronze week, at no cost to us, even though we rescinded the points purchase.
I thought this would have been cancelled when we rescinded, but they emailed the documents we have to sign.
There were three voice messages from the resale department waiting, when we returned from vacation last week.
We're happy, and I guess Marriott is anxious to get the week


----------



## davidvel (Nov 23, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Marriott is taking back our bronze week, at no cost to us, even though we rescinded the points purchase.
> I thought this would have been cancelled when we rescinded, but they emailed the documents we have to sign.
> There were three voice messages from the resale department waiting, when we returned from vacation last week.
> We're happy, and I guess Marriott is anxious to get the week


This should be interesting to follow.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 23, 2015)

Eli Mairs said:


> Marriott is taking back our bronze week, at no cost to us, even though we rescinded the points purchase.
> I thought this would have been cancelled when we rescinded, but they emailed the documents we have to sign.
> There were three voice messages from the resale department waiting, when we returned from vacation last week.
> We're happy, and I guess Marriott is anxious to get the week



My guess is the right had doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I suspect that the resale department hasn't gotten the message that you cancelled your DC points purchase. I agree with David, it will be interesting to see what happens. I hope it works out for you, but I don't have a lot of faith. Sorry.


----------



## Fairwinds (Nov 23, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> My guess is the right had doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I suspect that the resale department hasn't gotten the message that you cancelled your DC points purchase. I agree with David, it will be interesting to see what happens. I hope it works out for you, but I don't have a lot of faith. Sorry.



I think your idea is more realistic than mine. I was was wondering if they needed inventory because the DC program was giving a boost in demand for some of the lower cost resort/seasons as points owners use up left overs. I know one of my concerns about trading for DC points was having left overs and either feeling compelled to keep trading or lose the left overs (what I called secondary skim). But.... I have been very successful and quite happy with the great deal I got when I had a few hundred points left and saw what I could get in HH in the off season.


----------



## Beefnot (Nov 23, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> My guess is the right had doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I suspect that the resale department hasn't gotten the message that you cancelled your DC points purchase. I agree with David, it will be interesting to see what happens. I hope it works out for you, but I don't have a lot of faith. Sorry.


 
If it does work out for them, they will have exploited a wrinkle in the matrix that others may be able to use to dispose of their dog weeks.  Until the wrinkle is addressed.  Kinda like that Marriott glitch a few years back that many TUGgers silently exploited to get their post-June 2010 weeks into the DC. :ignore:


----------



## Eli Mairs (Nov 23, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> If it does work out for them, they will have exploited a wrinkle in the matrix that others may be able to use to dispose of their dog weeks.  Until the wrinkle is addressed.  Kinda like that Marriott glitch a few years back that many TUGgers silently exploited to get their post-June 2010 weeks into the DC. :ignore:



If it works out, it will be a nice surprise.

I'll keep you posted


----------



## CCR (Nov 23, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> If it does work out for them, they will have exploited a wrinkle in the matrix that others may be able to use to dispose of their dog weeks.  Until the wrinkle is addressed.  Kinda like that Marriott glitch a few years back that many TUGgers silently exploited to get their post-June 2010 weeks into the DC. :ignore:




Oh wow a post 2010 Destinations club enrollment glitch? I missed out 
How long did that glitch last.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 23, 2015)

CCR said:


> Oh wow a post 2010 Destinations club enrollment glitch? I missed out
> How long did that glitch last.



It was back in 2011. Not long after they rolled out the program. Here is the thread. No idea how long it really went on for.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139036


----------

