# Westin Mission Hills vs. Desert Willow



## daviator (Feb 24, 2021)

I am an owner at WDW and have been for several years, we go a couple of times per year and I have no big complaints about the property.  But I recently was booking reservations for the Fall trip and thought maybe it would be interesting to try WMH instead, since we've never stayed there.  So I booked that.

Now I've read that there is now a prohibition on WMH timeshare guests stepping onto the hotel property or using its amenities (having not stayed there, I don't know if this is a big issue or not) and I've also seen some posts which complain that WMH is getting old and run down.  It is an older property, I know, but I'd be surprised if they are letting it fall into disrepair.

Anyway, I'm now questioning my decision to give WMH a try, and wondering if I should change back to tried-and-true WDW.  I'm interested in any thoughts, and especially in updated information on whether an agreement for access has been worked out between the WMH timeshare and hotel properties.  If the hotel and its amenities are still off-limits, are there sufficient amenities on the timeshare side to make the loss of hotel amenities a non-issue?  It looks like there are only two pools on the timeshare side (WDW has 4 now I think?) so I'm wondering about crowding, etc.  I read somewhere that WMH was doing a reservation system for the pool due to Covid — WDW isn't doing that, which makes me think that capacity is more of an issue at WMH.  But again, I've never been there, so what do I know?

I also just looked at both properties' Covid updates pages, and both properties say they are now charging a hefty parking fee ($20/night!)  I would assume that they can't charge that fee to SVN owners using their ownerships (either home resort or SVN) but am I wrong about that?  The page with the parking fee notice does not specify any exceptions to the fee.

Thanks for any thoughts or updated info.


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## grrrah (Feb 24, 2021)

If you can deal with the hassle of check out/in, why not do 3 days at WMH, and the rest at WDW?

I haven't been to either, but have WDW booked for April, and had similar research results when picking which to stay at.


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## rcv82 (Feb 24, 2021)

I prefer WDW. One thing WMH has over WDW is that the large units at WMH have their own BBQs. WDW is under equipped in that department to begin with, and they had half blocked for COVID even though they are 6’ apart. 

I doubt either charges Vistana stays for parking. In November WDW did not. If you book as a hotel they will charge. 


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## Ken555 (Feb 24, 2021)

I’ve been to both many times, and haven’t been to WMH in many years since WDW is much better (for me). The loss of access to the hotel amenities for WMH is the final straw, at least as far as I’m concerned. And, they’ve been charging parking for hotel reservations for years but not for timeshare reservations, 


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## daviator (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks for the replies, I think I'll switch back to WDW.  At least I know I bought at the right property, lol.

Yes, it's stupid that they have half the BBQs at WDW blocked off.  They are far apart and how much time do you spend standing there, anyway?  I didn't see much sense in it.  I was there in October and had to wait to use the BBQ both times I went to use it, completely unnecessarily in my opinion.  Most of the other Covid-related changes were sensible, just not that one.

I found another place on the property website where it seems to clarify that the parking charges are just for those renting nightly, probably through Marriott.  I don't think they could start charging us for parking, pretty sure we own parking rights.  But I wouldn't put it past them to try!

Maybe I'll try WMH for three nights or something just to check it out.  But maybe I'll wait until next year and see if they sort out the access issues.  It seems a bit odd that the new ownership of the hotel wants to exclude timeshare guests who might spend money on their side of the property, and it seems like the issue with room charges and the like ought to have an easy technology solution.

It seems like a bit of a mess now, several of the amenities listed on the Vistana website for WMH seem to actually be part of the hotel, so they aren't really available to users of the Vistana side (or you can't walk to them?)


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## steve1000 (Feb 24, 2021)

I own at both WMH and WDW and my wife and I enjoy each of them. Personally, I prefer the "desert feel" of the property layout and architecture as well as overall unit interior design at WDW. On the other hand, my wife prefers the walking paths and the larger footprint of the property at WMH. The premium one BR units are a bit larger at WMH than those at WDW but the smaller 1 BR units are larger at WDW than WMH. At WDW we can walk over to the public restaurant at the adjoining Desert Willows club as the views overlooking the golf course are spectacular and its a fabulous place to enjoy an outdoor breakfast/lunch or happy hour. However, we prefer the Rancho Mirage location of WMH as it closer to Palm Springs and we often have dinner there or in Rancho Mirage. I think both resorts have nice pool areas (note: the WMH main pool area is currently undergoing a renovation until March 31). If you feel like checking out something different I would say try a stay at WMH see what you think - although it may be a bit more "tired looking" it is still a lovely resort and as noted above we enjoy our stays at both places.


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## VacationForever (Feb 24, 2021)

I have been going to the desert over the winter period for many years.  WMH had been old and tired for a long time and the only reason I stayed there was that timeshare guests had free access to their golf facility on the hotel side.  Since WMH timeshare side no longer has free access to their golf facility, there is zero reason for me to stay there anymore.  I am headed out to Marriott Desert Springs for a week (Villas I), followed by 3 nights stay at WDW.  I have always preferred WDW to WMH as a timeshare resort.


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## daviator (Feb 25, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> I have been going to the desert over the winter period for many years.  WMH had been old and tired for a long time and the only reason I stayed there was that timeshare guests had free access to their golf facility on the hotel side.  Since WMH timeshare side no longer has free access to their golf facility, there is zero reason for me to stay there anymore.  I am headed out to Marriott Desert Springs for a week (Villas I), followed by 3 nights stay at WDW.  I have always preferred WDW to WMH as a timeshare resort.


Thanks for the feedback.  It seems as if Vistana is investing in renovations at WMH now (pools being resurfaced, all the buildings being painted, etc.) so maybe it will look better when they're done.  But it does seem like the loss of reciprocal privileges with the adjacent hotel is a big loss.  If I was a WMH owner, I'd be livid. 

How does Marriott Desert Springs compare to the Westin properties?  I could probably try it out some time via II if it's worth a try.


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## PcflEZFlng (Feb 25, 2021)

We used to own at WMH, bought in 2007. When WDW opened in 2010, we started going there instead, using our SOs. For the reasons mentioned above, primarily architecture, desert feel and layout, we preferred WDW. WMH also doesn't have elevators, which mattered to us pre-COVID, which is another reason we liked WDW better. Finally, I like the quiet pool at WDW, which WMH doesn't have. When we stayed at WMH, I would go to the quiet pool at the hotel next door. That option of course wouldn't be available now. We gave away our WMH ownership a little more than a year ago.

DW still likes WDW a lot, but after a stay at Desert Springs I via II a couple of years ago, it has become my new favorite, along with Embarc. Their villas are very spacious, and we had a terrific view of the golf course and mountains. I recommend trying it sometime.


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## VacationForever (Feb 25, 2021)

daviator said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  It seems as if Vistana is investing in renovations at WMH now (pools being resurfaced, all the buildings being painted, etc.) so maybe it will look better when they're done.  But it does seem like the loss of reciprocal privileges with the adjacent hotel is a big loss.  If I was a WMH owner, I'd be livid.
> 
> How does Marriott Desert Springs compare to the Westin properties?  I could probably try it out some time via II if it's worth a try.


We love Marriott's Desert Springs Villas.  We usually spend 3 weeks at Desert Springs Villas I every year.  The 2BR is the largest in the entire MVC system - I think around 1700 sq ft.  The studio side has a separate entrance and has both a walk-in shower and a separate bathtub.


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## Ken555 (Feb 25, 2021)

PcflEZFlng said:


> We used to own at WMH, bought in 2007. When WDW opened in 2010, we started going there instead, using our SOs. For the reasons mentioned above, primarily architecture, desert feel and layout, we preferred WDW. WMH also doesn't have elevators, which mattered to us pre-COVID, which is another reason we liked WDW better. Finally, I like the quiet pool at WDW, which WMH doesn't have. When we stayed at WMH, I would go to the quiet pool at the hotel next door. That option of course wouldn't be available now. We gave away our WMH ownership a little more than a year ago.
> 
> DW still likes WDW a lot, but after a stay at Desert Springs I via II a couple of years ago, it has become my new favorite, along with Embarc. Their villas are very spacious, and we had a terrific view of the golf course and mountains. I recommend trying it sometime.



My experience was very similar. My first week was WMH but I got rid of it when it didn’t fit with my needs a few years later, and visited WMH and WDW via Interval getaways and SO bookings. 

I remember the WMH adult pool, but it was small and wasn’t monitored so you can guess what happened.

WDW was much too concrete in the early years, but I’ve learned to like it. I also prefer their small 1-bed (especially the corner units since they have an extra window in the living room), as I think the large 1-beds were poorly designed (the living area is small relative to the total space and I hate having to tilt my neck to watch tv since they put it too high up).

I’ve also stayed at Shadow Ridge, Shadow Ridge Enclave, Marriott DS I and II, and Embarq. Embarq is nice, DS I & II always feel dated to me but it’s maintained quite nice, Shadow Ridge is a typical Marriott (ie. not as nice as WDW) and SR Enclave is a step up from SR (at the time they had a salt water pool, which I enjoy) but the units felt like they installed finished products from the lowest bidder and it shows (I also disliked the sliding door separating the living space to the bedroom in the 1-bed unit). But, any of them are great for II getaways when they’re priced right.


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## daviator (Feb 25, 2021)

I appreciate all the feedback.  The individual BBQs at WMH are a nice perk, but given everything that's going on at WMH with access issues, etc. – I cancelled and rebooked at WDW for the same period.  I can't get excited about packing up and moving mid-vacation so decided against doing just a few days at WMH.

I have a four-night "encore package" that I got talked into last year, maybe I'll use that at WMH at some point.


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## Kildahl (Feb 28, 2021)

We split our time between both Westin resorts when in the Coachella Valley. Before going further, I should state that I gave up  golf in the interest of public safety. That being said we appreciate the features of both unique properties. We usually start at DW and end at MH. Grilling on the veranda (one bedroom premium?)is convenient and the smaller, one bedroom unit seems much larger. It may be a function of nothing more than design.
I will also add that there is one building at WMH with an elevator.


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## Kildahl (Apr 6, 2021)

I will be there soon. Is anyone at one of these resorts now?


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## duke (Apr 6, 2021)

Here at WMH now.
Not crowded.
Great weather.
Both Villas pools open.
Hot tub and slide closed.
No problem walking on walk path to hotel.
Offered $150 to go to WDW for Owners Update - declined.
Seasons restaurant at main pool closed.

Almost all business' at "The River" closed and empty.
El Paseo open but not crowded.


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## grrrah (Apr 6, 2021)

Checking into WDW next Monday.  First timer.

Just had my pre-checkin call from vistana and similar to above:
All the pools open, byo cooler ok - no glass.  Bar by main pool is open for take away
slides and hot tubs closed.
no restaurants/gyms/market yet.
Also offered $150 visa card and declined.


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## controller1 (Apr 6, 2021)

duke said:


> Here at WMH now.
> Not crowded.
> Great weather.
> Both Villas pools open.
> ...



So has the sign on the walk path been removed that previously was there and said villas owners could not pass that point?


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## daviator (Apr 6, 2021)

We were at WDW in October and will be there again beginning a week from Friday. I got contacted and am a little disappointed that they haven’t reopened the snack bar or servers at the Ironwood pool, or the gym; basically everything is the same as it was in October I think.  Hopefully when California lifts all of the restrictions on June 15, they will reopen everything at the resorts.

I let myself get talked into making an appointment for an owner update; I just sat through one a month ago in Maui, but they’re apparently happy to pay for another shot at me.  I’ll practice saying no a lot between now and then.


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## duke (Apr 7, 2021)

controller1 said:


> So has the sign on the walk path been removed that previously was there and said villas owners could not pass that point?



It's there but small sign and nobody is paying attention.  Easy to continue walk to hotel.


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## David Yuan (Apr 9, 2021)

How's WDW this week? is it pretty busy?
We are going tomorrow...can't wait : )

thanks!


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## daviator (Apr 9, 2021)

David Yuan said:


> How's WDW this week? is it pretty busy?
> We are going tomorrow...can't wait : )
> 
> thanks!


I have heard it’s basically full but am not there now. We go back again next Friday.

Have a great time!


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## liongate88 (Apr 9, 2021)

I am at WMH now and there is a big sign with the walkway path blocked towards the hotel side. You have to drive and park at the hotel side for the restaurant. WMH Pools are scheduled every 4 hours block, both pools are open. I would avoid staying at WMH in the future due to loss of access / amenities of the hotel side.


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## grgs (Apr 9, 2021)

liongate88 said:


> I am at WMH now and there is a big sign with the walkway path blocked towards the hotel side. You have to drive and park at the hotel side for the restaurant. WMH Pools are scheduled every 4 hours block, both pools are open. I would avoid staying at WMH in the future due to loss of access / amenities of the hotel side.


Any chance we can a pic of the sign?  Your description is so different than Duke's, and you're both there now.  Walking on the path down to the hotel is something we enjoy, so I'd really like to know if it's doable or not.

Thanks!


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## liongate88 (Apr 9, 2021)

You can always pass beside the rails that was put in place. The question there if it is worth it, since
It is considered trespassing..... I wont risk it. 


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## liongate88 (Apr 9, 2021)

grgs said:


> Any chance we can a pic of the sign?  Your description is so different than Duke's, and you're both there now.  Walking on the path down to the hotel is something we enjoy, so I'd really like to know if it's doable or not.
> 
> Thanks!


Hope this helps.... the sign and the 2 rails are attached by a chain both above and below. If you decide to pass , make sure you don't trip.  The only thing I did not look if the hotel guest can access the opposite way. I am not sure if the sign is back to back Lol...


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## Ken555 (Apr 10, 2021)

I see no reason to visit WMH while they have these silly separation policies. Then again, I tend to prefer WDW anyway.


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## critterchick (Apr 10, 2021)

David Yuan said:


> How's WDW this week? is it pretty busy?
> We are going tomorrow...can't wait : )
> 
> thanks!



We are, too! We were there in December and arrived the day that California shut down travel. We were allowed to stay the entire week and were the last occupants in Building 16 when we checked out. I think it'll be a lot different this trip, but am a little sad that everything on site is still shut down.


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## Cornell (Apr 10, 2021)

I was at WDW over spring break.  No parking fees for me as a Vistana owner.


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## BJRSanDiego (Apr 10, 2021)

As a result of Covid and resort closings, I have been doing a bunch of shuffling of reservations in Interval.  Luckily I had bought ePlus.  If I am "parking" a reservation I usually try to make it as far out as I can go.  So, as a result, I booked WMH.  It was available whereas Marriott and WDW were not.  I recently read a bunch of Tripadvisor reviews on WMH.  Some were glowing but there were a few that were absolutely horrible.  What surprised me was the percent of horrible reviews that were pretty recent.  On average on TA, WMH gets a 4 star rating, and WDW gets a 4.5 star rating.  But I suspect that if I averaged the WMH rating over a shorter time period (like 3 months) that the average would be less than 4 stars.  Based on the horrible reviews for WMH I ended up using my last ePlus and booked WDW.  

I knew that if we got a unit like the dissatisfied reviewers got, that it would ruin our vacation.


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## Kildahl (Apr 10, 2021)

Cornell said:


> I was at WDW over spring break....


What was your sense of the resort being at full occupancy:  100-75%; 74-50%;  49-25; or less than 25%? If 50% or less, did it appear that management had attempted to fill certain buildings while leaving others closed?

When we left WDW last January, it appeared that construction was soon to begin on Building 10. Is it completed or still just an empty lot ?  Thanks!


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## Breezy52 (Apr 10, 2021)

In March we stayed at Westin Mission Hills and Marriott Desert Springs.  For what it's worth, as not Desert Willow, We really preferred the Marriott.  We didn't pay parking at either, perhaps because full week useage.  I heard someone checking in near us for less than a week that was charged for parking.


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## Cornell (Apr 10, 2021)

Kildahl said:


> What was your sense of the resort being at full occupancy:  100-75%; 74-50%;  49-25; or less than 25%? If 50% or less, did it appear that management had attempted to fill certain buildings while leaving others closed?
> 
> When we left WDW last January, it appeared that construction was soon to begin on Building 10. Is it completed or still just an empty lot ?  Thanks!


Maybe 50 % ?


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## SeattleJohn2 (Apr 10, 2021)

David Yuan said:


> How's WDW this week? is it pretty busy?
> We are going tomorrow...can't wait : )
> 
> thanks!


Just got back from WDW last night (7 night stay in 2-BR lockoff). The place was fully booked and will be for the rest of the month, according to the front desk folks (two people independently confirmed this). As others have mentioned, the restaurant, spas/hot tub, slides, workout facilities, Kids Club, etc. are closed. Also zero housekeeping, not even mid-week refresh. Pools were super busy but staff was good about the mask requirements (wear them when walking around, but not when sitting or in the pool). We rented cabanas on three different days and really recommend it. It's great to have a home base for the day and some shade. Also they come with a snack bag and waters. At the main pool, you can get food and drink service. The servers seemed to give the cabanas more attention. 

Palm Springs was also really busy so if you want to go out to eat, plan ahead or be prepared to wait. (I recommend Farm in downtown PS.)

LMK if you have any specific questions.


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## grgs (Apr 10, 2021)

liongate88 said:


> Hope this helps.... the sign and the 2 rails are attached by a chain both above and below. If you decide to pass , make sure you don't trip.  The only thing I did not look if the hotel guest can access the opposite way. I am not sure if the sign is back to back Lol...


 
Thanks for pics!  It's certainly off putting.  I hope they are able to work something outhat and open the path again.


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## critterchick (Apr 12, 2021)

BJRSanDiego said:


> As a result of Covid and resort closings, I have been doing a bunch of shuffling of reservations in Interval.  Luckily I had bought ePlus.  If I am "parking" a reservation I usually try to make it as far out as I can go.  So, as a result, I booked WMH.  It was available whereas Marriott and WDW were not.  I recently read a bunch of Tripadvisor reviews on WMH.  Some were glowing but there were a few that were absolutely horrible.  What surprised me was the percent of horrible reviews that were pretty recent.  On average on TA, WMH gets a 4 star rating, and WDW gets a 4.5 star rating.  But I suspect that if I averaged the WMH rating over a shorter time period (like 3 months) that the average would be less than 4 stars.  Based on the horrible reviews for WMH I ended up using my last ePlus and booked WDW.
> 
> I knew that if we got a unit like the dissatisfied reviewers got, that it would ruin our vacation.



What's an ePlus, please? I haven't seen that before.



SeattleJohn2 said:


> Just got back from WDW last night (7 night stay in 2-BR lockoff). The place was fully booked and will be for the rest of the month, according to the front desk folks (two people independently confirmed this). As others have mentioned, the restaurant, spas/hot tub, slides, workout facilities, Kids Club, etc. are closed. Also zero housekeeping, not even mid-week refresh. Pools were super busy but staff was good about the mask requirements (wear them when walking around, but not when sitting or in the pool). We rented cabanas on three different days and really recommend it. It's great to have a home base for the day and some shade. Also they come with a snack bag and waters. At the main pool, you can get food and drink service. The servers seemed to give the cabanas more attention.
> 
> Palm Springs was also really busy so if you want to go out to eat, plan ahead or be prepared to wait. (I recommend Farm in downtown PS.)
> 
> LMK if you have any specific questions.



We're at WDW now, arrived on Saturday. It was packed that night, but a lot of people checked out yesterday and weren't replaced, judging from the parking situation.  I imagine it'll pick up as the weekend approaches - the Concierge who checked us in said that they are booked solid for the next few weekends, not so much during the week. The only outdoor mask requirement in the literature says that they have to be worn at the pools (unless you're swimming) The rule seems largely disregarded. Although there are still "T" and "B" notices (if you're sitting in a chair with a "T" sign you can be in the water from the top to the bottom of the hour; B is bottom to top), we didn't see any signs on the chairs at the Palo Verde pool (the only one we've checked so far).  It's been pretty quiet - it's a "workation" for us so we're spending a lot time in the villa. Housekeeping brings whatever we need, although it took a couple of calls to get kitchen items.

I like the 2-3 hour drive a lot better than 6+ to Scottsdale, but I find that I greatly prefer Kierland.


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## David Yuan (Apr 12, 2021)

Yeah we are here too
Totally right about the crowds, pools not that busy either....they clear the pool at 12,2 and 4pm for 10 min. After the 4pm pool clear yesterday, everyone just all sort of left...

Like John mentioned, no housekeeping, front desk told me they’d have a midweek tidy if you stay over 10 nights...


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## Kildahl (Apr 12, 2021)

Thanks for the updates! Is there any construction going on?


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## David Yuan (Apr 12, 2021)

Kildahl said:


> Thanks for the updates! Is there any construction going on?


I see a lot of empty lot with fence around it, but I have not actually seen or hear any construction going on for the past 3 days. 
Could just mean they took a long weekend off thou : )

thanks.


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## BJRSanDiego (Apr 12, 2021)

critterchick said:


> What's an ePlus, please? I haven't seen that before.


With Interval, they offer an option ($ 69 ?) whereby after you've got your exchange, you can re-trade up to 3 more times.  For more details, limitations, Flex change considerations etc., go to the FAQs on Interval and/or read the Buyer's guide.


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## critterchick (Apr 15, 2021)

David Yuan said:


> I see a lot of empty lot with fence around it, but I have not actually seen or hear any construction going on for the past 3 days.
> Could just mean they took a long weekend off thou : )



We took the $150 bribe to do an Owner Update and the sales rep told us that Marriott have put a hold on any construction projects. As an aside, most of the presentation was telling us that we'd better do some upgrades to our portfolio now before Marriott take away that feature. Also that the programs won't be merged per se but that access to each company's properties will be enhanced. Some day. He didn't even venture a guess, which was refreshing.


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## zentraveler (Apr 15, 2021)

BJRSanDiego said:


> With Interval, they offer an option ($ 69 ?) whereby after you've got your exchange, you can re-trade up to 3 more times.  For more details, limitations, Flex change considerations etc., go to the FAQs on Interval and/or read the Buyer's guide.



I think you are referring to E-Plus. I also think the price varies according to what level of II membership one has. And here is help from dioxide45: What is EPlus & How Does it Work - Interval International Exchange - YouTube


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## David Yuan (Apr 15, 2021)

I just got done with the owner update, they didn't even try to sell us another encore since we already have an open encore... : )
I didn't ask to clarify, is it true that if we buy into Westin flex right now, we can already make reservation with the marritot side of things?
The sales made it sound like that way, I just nodded along...


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## daviator (Apr 15, 2021)

David Yuan said:


> I just got done with the owner update, they didn't even try to sell us another encore since we already have an open encore... : )
> I didn't ask to clarify, is it true that if we buy into Westin flex right now, we can already make reservation with the marritot side of things?
> The sales made it sound like that way, I just nodded along...


No, that's not true.  You can exchange via II (with a discounted exchange fee, I think) with MVC properties, but there is no direct reserving of MVC properties.


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## BJRSanDiego (Apr 15, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> I think you are referring to E-Plus. I also think the price varies according to what level of II membership one has. And here is help from dioxide45: What is EPlus & How Does it Work - Interval International Exchange - YouTube


I just checked - - ePlus is $59 (in the US).  I generally buy it for every exchange.  With the uncertainty with Covid, I think that it is wise.  I "moved" a bunch of res's from last year into this year.


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## jmhpsu93 (Apr 16, 2021)

BJRSanDiego said:


> I just checked - - ePlus is $59 (in the US).  I generally buy it for every exchange.  With the uncertainty with Covid, I think that it is wise.  I "moved" a bunch of res's from last year into this year.


I do as well, often to "uptrade" after getting something I'm satisfied with, but always looking for something higher quality or with a better check-in date for my schedule.


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## Kildahl (May 10, 2021)

Brief report. We were at WDW the last two weeks of April. Thanks to all who answered our questions about what to expect. We declined the offer for an update Our traveling friends accepted and purchased a  4 day "encore" package, good for 2 years. The  most significant  bit of information confirmed (we saw a sign while there in January of 2020) was that the plans for a waterpark located between the resort and the Desert Willow Golf Clubhouse are proceeding. It seems crazy to us considering the water shortage in the area. It will certainly raise the noise level at the resort.  
Weekends(FR-M) seemed near capacity while the balance of the weeks were  less crowded.  Several 100F plus days warmed the Quiet Pool. Masking was common except in the pools or the golf course. The 2 hour protocol was not enforced at the quiet pool.  Did not seen any new construction on the resort grounds but noticed a lot of residential units had been completed and others under construction along Country Club Road next to Manor Care.
The grounds were in excellent condition but we sensed that the residential staff was understaffed at this time.
We took a trip over to WMH to see "the wall" and look over the grounds of both the hotel and the Villas. The grounds were excellent but we did not ask to see the inside of a villa. The pool renovation was complete and looked good. About half the chairs were occupied which appeared to be true at the hotel pool also. The grounds seemed very quiet. We hope the the two companies can reach an agreement to allow access between the hotel/TS properties before we return next year.


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## daviator (May 10, 2021)

Kildahl said:


> Brief report. We were at WDW the last two weeks of April. Thanks to all who answered our questions about what to expect. We declined the offer for an update Our traveling friends accepted and purchased a  4 day "encore" package, good for 2 years. The  most significant  bit of information confirmed (we saw a sign while there in January of 2020) was that the plans for a waterpark located between the resort and the Desert Willow Golf Clubhouse are proceeding. It seems crazy to us considering the water shortage in the area. It will certainly raise the noise level at the resort.
> Weekends(FR-M) seemed near capacity while the balance of the weeks were  less crowded.  Several 100F plus days warmed the Quiet Pool. Masking was common except in the pools or the golf course. The 2 hour protocol was not enforced at the quiet pool.  Did not seen any new construction on the resort grounds but noticed a lot of residential units had been completed and others under construction along Country Club Road next to Manor Care.
> The grounds were in excellent condition but we sensed that the residential staff was understaffed at this time.
> We took a trip over to WMH to see "the wall" and look over the grounds of both the hotel and the Villas. The grounds were excellent but we did not ask to see the inside of a villa. The pool renovation was complete and looked good. About half the chairs were occupied which appeared to be true at the hotel pool also. The grounds seemed very quiet. We hope the the two companies can reach an agreement to allow access between the hotel/TS properties before we return next year.


Thanks for the update, I didn’t know about the water park, that’s interesting. Hopefully none of the units will look out onto the water park.  It does seem like they did a fantastic job of orienting the villa buildings so that all the views are of the golf course or pools.
the new facility across the gold course next to Manor Care will essentially be senior living apartments woth a bunch of services available on the property.  Shouldn’t impact our resort at all.  Those units are basically done and I think they’ve started leasing them for future occupancy.


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## iowaguy09 (May 10, 2021)

Not quite what I pictured when I heard waterpark.  Interesting:  https://www.dsrtsurf.com/.


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## Ken555 (May 10, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> Not quite what I pictured when I heard waterpark. Interesting: https://www.dsrtsurf.com/.



Glad you posted the link. I agree...not a water park. 


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## Kildahl (May 10, 2021)

daviator said:


> Thanks for the update, I didn’t know about the water park, that’s interesting. Hopefully none of the units will look out onto the water park.  It does seem like they did a fantastic job of orienting the villa buildings so that all the views are of the golf course or pools....


My guess would be that buildings 2, 5 and 10( when completed) would  have a view and be most affected.


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## zentraveler (May 10, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> Not quite what I pictured when I heard waterpark.  Interesting:  https://www.dsrtsurf.com/.



I'm sorry, but this is one of the nuttier ideas I have seen, to put a huge water whatever in the desert in a state that is often  in a drought.  There are places with natural water all over the country; why plop one in the  desert with so many other options? All rhetorical questions/comments. I know many will think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread .


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## DavidnRobin (May 10, 2021)

Kildahl said:


> Brief report. We were at WDW the last two weeks of April. Thanks to all who answered our questions about what to expect. We declined the offer for an update Our traveling friends accepted and purchased a 4 day "encore" package, good for 2 years. The most significant bit of information confirmed (we saw a sign while there in January of 2020) was that the plans for a waterpark located between the resort and the Desert Willow Golf Clubhouse are proceeding. It seems crazy to us considering the water shortage in the area. It will certainly raise the noise level at the resort.
> Weekends(FR-M) seemed near capacity while the balance of the weeks were less crowded. Several 100F plus days warmed the Quiet Pool. Masking was common except in the pools or the golf course. The 2 hour protocol was not enforced at the quiet pool. Did not seen any new construction on the resort grounds but noticed a lot of residential units had been completed and others under construction along Country Club Road next to Manor Care.
> The grounds were in excellent condition but we sensed that the residential staff was understaffed at this time.
> We took a trip over to WMH to see "the wall" and look over the grounds of both the hotel and the Villas. The grounds were excellent but we did not ask to see the inside of a villa. The pool renovation was complete and looked good. About half the chairs were occupied which appeared to be true at the hotel pool also. The grounds seemed very quiet. We hope the the two companies can reach an agreement to allow access between the hotel/TS properties before we return next year.



I recommend that you tell your friends to rescind the Encore package while (if) they still can. IMO
Thanks for the update.


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## daviator (May 10, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> I'm sorry, but this is one of the nuttier ideas I have seen, to put a huge water whatever in the desert in a state that is often  in a drought.  There are places with natural water all over the country; why plop one in the  desert with so many other options? All rhetorical questions/comments. I know many will think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread .


So they claim that they will use less water than the portion of the golf course that it is replacing, so it's a net reduction in water use.  I guess that tells you what a crazy amount of water a golf course requires.


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## zentraveler (May 10, 2021)

daviator said:


> So they claim that they will use less water than the portion of the golf course that it is replacing, so it's a net reduction in water use.  I guess that tells you what a crazy amount of water a golf course requires.



Or it avoids the water guzzling questions to begin with, i.e. the ethics and ethos of putting a swim/surfing system (never mind a million golf courses) in the desert etc. It is all kind of amusing in a weird sort way . We have gone off the deep end imho but I get it. Surf/swim in the desert when a  California coast of ocean is 2 hours away. Why not?


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## Kildahl (May 11, 2021)

Ken555 said:


> Glad you posted the link. I agree...not a* water park*_._
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Water Park was the term used by the sales staff last and again this year.
I recall that the sign in the  sand _might_ have said "wave park".


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## Kildahl (May 11, 2021)

The "desert feel" of WDW is slowly starting to evaporate. The development of surrounding property owned by others in that area was/is probably inevitable.  If I was interested in a wave park, I would take my grandkids to Lost Island in IA or Wisconsin Dells.


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## daviator (May 11, 2021)

Kildahl said:


> The "desert feel" of WDW is slowly starting to evaporate. The development of surrounding property owned by others in that area was/is probably inevitable.  If I was interested in a wave park, I would take my grandkids to Lost Island in IA or Wisconsin Dells.


You're right, of course, but I don't think it's as bad as you imply.  Most of the buildings will continue to have the same golf-course-and-mountains views that they have today; a couple buildings will probably "see" the wave park from the upper floors, off in the distance.  Of course, you can already see some of the new development across the golf course from the parking lots, especially near building 9, but it's far enough away that it isn't a big deal, to me at least.

But I expect that any remaining untouched desert land in the big block that includes Desert Willow will be gone before long.


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## grgs (Jun 13, 2021)

Hi,

Has anyone been to WMH recently?  Is the path to the hotel still blocked? 

Thanks!

Glorian


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## robertk2012 (Jun 23, 2021)

I’m here now.  I hate this place.  It is still blocked.



grgs said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone been to WMH recently?  Is the path to the hotel still blocked?
> 
> ...


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## robertk2012 (Jun 23, 2021)

1 minute before I walked around it.


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## Andrearr (Jun 24, 2021)

robertk2012 said:


> I’m here now.  I hate this place.  It is still blocked.


This is hilarious.
Makes me think of the "I hate it here" memes
Whew glad I settled on shadow ridge instead of these 2. I had Westin desert booked originally because I thought it would be a more posh feel due to the brand. But I've read too many bad things the past year.


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## robertk2012 (Jun 24, 2021)

I visited Desert Willows and I think I would have enjoyed it much more.  Mission Hills doesn't have any food/drink, crazy pool rules but they don't actually follow or clean, tiny bed in the smaller 1bd, and I could keep going but you get the point.


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## daviator (Jun 24, 2021)

Andrearr said:


> This is hilarious.
> Makes me think of the "I hate it here" memes
> Whew glad I settled on shadow ridge instead of these 2. I had Westin desert booked originally because I thought it would be a more posh feel due to the brand. But I've read too many bad things the past year.


I own at Westin Desert Willow (for many years) and love it.  Ironically I was considering a stay at Mission Hills this year, just because I’ve never tried it, but convinced myself otherwise after hearing from folks here.

im rather surprised there haven’t been talks of a lawsuit over the closure of access between the hotel and the timeshares.  Maybe the tenuous nature of the previous access was fully disclosed to buyers, I don’t know. But if I owned there I’d be pretty unhappy about what has happened.


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## grgs (Jun 24, 2021)

It's disappointing that the path is still blocked. We've been going to Mission Hills for years, but I booked WDW for Presidents' Weekend.  

If/when the path reopens, I hope someone will update this thread!


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## tkrisnel (Jun 29, 2021)

Does anyone have any info of status of on-site activities and dining at WDW and WMH now that California and Riverside County have lifted all COVID restrictions.  Vistana HUB page still lists most things as closed on-site, call to the properties did not offer any additional info (though I was told re WDW one waterslide is open despite the HUB page saying both are closed).  Trip planned for August at WDW, would be much more enjoyable if there were activities and the marketplace was open.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 6, 2021)

We are at WDW now and will be at WMH later this week to compare. So far the property is nice, even if it is HOT. Some first impressions;


Quiet Pool closes at 6PM, WHY? Many people complaining about this.
Only one pool is open till 10PM. Not sure if it is the upper or lower Mirage pool.
The elevator smells like real bad body odor. You can tell they have tried to clean the carpet in the cab, but it hasn't helped and they never used anything to clean around the edge. They just need to replace the carpeting in the elevator cab.
The kitchen is as disappointing at Sheraton Vistana Villages and Resort. I was expecting much more. The kitchen utensils and provided dinnerware is disappointing to say the least.
The room is otherwise real nice, though the AC seems to have a hard time getting into the bedroom of our 1BR villa.
Occupancy was 97% over the weekend but expected to drop to 87% during the week.
I like that they built out the four pool areas and have yet to finish all the rooms. It seems like a lot of pools for the number of planned villas at 300. Shoot, Grande Vista has about the same number of pools and 900 units.

Trying to figure out how many units have been built. I have an old report from Vistana that 134 were built, but a Google search indicates 198. Can anyone confirm?


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## daviator (Jul 6, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Trying to figure out how many units have been built. I have an old report from Vistana that 134 were built, but a Google search indicates 198. Can anyone confirm?



Aren't all the buildings the same, or nearly the same?  I think maybe building 1 is smaller by a few units, I think the others are the same.  I'd just count the number of units on the ground floor of your building, multiple by 3 (floors) and then multiply by the number of buildings which have been built   I'm thinking maybe 16 units (8 lockoffs) per floor x 3 x 13 (I think) completed buildings, that comes out to over 600 units (300 lockoffs) already, so maybe I'm wrong on the number of units per floor (it's just a guess.)

I think there is one more pool still to be built, IIRC.  I thought there was going to be one more pool across the way from buildings 8 and 9, between two buildings that don't exist yet.

Edit: AAA says the property has "440 condominiums" and I am not sure that includes the latest two buildings (8 and 9) which are only a couple years old.  I expect they are referring to individual units, so 220 lockoffs as of whatever point in time that number came from.

Just a guess, but I'll bet the early pool closure is a result of staffing issues.  Across the state, it's very tough to find workers.


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## Ken555 (Jul 6, 2021)

daviator said:


> Aren't all the buildings the same, or nearly the same? I think maybe building 1 is smaller by a few units, I think the others are the same. I'd just count the number of units on the ground floor of your building, multiple by 3 (floors) and then multiply by the number of buildings which have been built I'm thinking maybe 16 units (8 lockoffs) per floor x 3 x 13 (I think) completed buildings, that comes out to over 600 units (300 lockoffs) already, so maybe I'm wrong on the number of units per floor (it's just a guess.)
> 
> I think there is one more pool still to be built, IIRC. I thought there was going to be one more pool across the way from buildings 8 and 9, between two buildings that don't exist yet.
> 
> ...



Some buildings have three floors while others have four.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 6, 2021)

THe top floors also have two less villas as there aren't ones on each end. I don't know if this is all the buildings or just some of them. It looks like there are only 13 current buildings with buildings 10-14 still unbuilt.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 6, 2021)

daviator said:


> Just a guess, but I'll bet the early pool closure is a result of staffing issues. Across the state, it's very tough to find workers.


That is likely the excuse. We notice though that there is no staff at the pool pretty much all day. They really only show up at closing to kick everyone out and close the pools down and reset the chairs and umbrellas. Maybe an hours work (5:30-6:30).


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## Ken555 (Jul 6, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> THe top floors also have two less villas as there aren't ones on each end. I don't know if this is all the buildings or just some of them. It looks like there are only 13 current buildings with buildings 10-14 still unbuilt.



All buildings. I almost always get a corner unit (those are the best IMO, since they have an extra window in the living room and tend to be quieter with only one neighbor).


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## PcflEZFlng (Jul 6, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> We are at WDW now and will be at WMH later this week to compare. So far the property is nice, even if it is HOT.
> 
> Quiet Pool closes at 6PM, WHY? Many people complaining about this.


Wait till you get to WMH. If you're looking for a quiet pool, you won't find one. Their East Pool used to be called the Serenity Pool, but they still pumped party music to it; in fact, the speakers were right underneath the hammocks (no, I can't make this stuff up). However, one could still use the quiet pool at the hotel (called the La Paloma Pool), which happens to be the closest hotel pool to WMH, but I'm pretty sure that won't be available to you now that villa guests are no longer allowed to use hotel amenities. Have fun!


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## dioxide45 (Jul 6, 2021)

PcflEZFlng said:


> Wait till you get to WMH. If you're looking for a quiet pool, you won't find one. Their East Pool used to be called the Serenity Pool, but they still pumped party music to it; in fact, the speakers were right underneath the hammocks (no, I can't make this stuff up). However, one could still use the quiet pool at the hotel (called the La Paloma Pool), which happens to be the closest hotel pool to WMH, but I'm pretty sure that won't be available to you now that villa guests are no longer allowed to use hotel amenities. Have fun!


You're really selling us on WMH... The place sounds charming


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## MarineBlue (Jul 6, 2021)

I preferred the units at WMH. Their premium one-bedroom has a double patio (or balcony) with sliding glass doors in the bedroom as well as the living room.  WMH's units are larger in square feet (880 sq. ft) compared to WDW (820 sq. ft).  We always use to request a 2nd floor (no elevators; all their bldgs are two-stories) with a golf course view. Very pretty!  It is disappointing tho that you can't access the hotel property anymore. That was also a big plus when initially deciding between the two locations.   WDW's premium one-bedroom feels like a dark shoe-box in comparison (with just one sliding door in the living room) but I've grown to love their property and its convenient location.  WMH just feels 'further out' from the action.


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## daviator (Jul 6, 2021)

MarineBlue said:


> I preferred the units at WMH. Their premium one-bedroom has a double patio (or balcony) with sliding glass doors in the bedroom as well as the living room.  WMH's units are larger in square feet (880 sq. ft) compared to WDW (820 sq. ft).  We always use to request a 2nd floor (no elevators; all their bldgs are two-stories) with a golf course view. Very pretty!  It is disappointing tho that you can't access the hotel property anymore. That was also a big plus when initially deciding between the two locations.   WDW's premium one-bedroom feels like a dark shoe-box in comparison (with just one sliding door in the living room) but I've grown to love their property and its convenient location.  WMH just feels 'further out' from the action.


I agree that the units at WDW are dark.  The only natural light is from the sliding door at the far end.  There's a tiny window in the kitchen, but it looks out onto the hallway, so (a) there's not much light from there anyway, and (b) the inclination is to keep those blinds drawn because it feels intrusive to have every person passing by able to peer into your unit.  And the lighting isn't especially bright — I don't know why they have to be so stingy with the bulbs now that they're all LED and barely use any juice.  But it's a minor quibble.  I just end up leaving the lights on if we are there and using the kitchen/dining areas.

WKORV is basically the same layout and has the same issue, minus the tiny kitchen window since its corridors are interior.  

I have heard that WMH has individual BBQs for each unit which would be a nice thing.  But all the recent problems have dissuaded me from staying there.


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## robertk2012 (Jul 8, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> You're really selling us on WMH... The place sounds charming


Don’t go..I hate it.


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## robertk2012 (Jul 8, 2021)

daviator said:


> I agree that the units at WDW are dark.  The only natural light is from the sliding door at the far end.  There's a tiny window in the kitchen, but it looks out onto the hallway, so (a) there's not much light from there anyway, and (b) the inclination is to keep those blinds drawn because it feels intrusive to have every person passing by able to peer into your unit.  And the lighting isn't especially bright — I don't know why they have to be so stingy with the bulbs now that they're all LED and barely use any juice.  But it's a minor quibble.  I just end up leaving the lights on if we are there and using the kitchen/dining areas.
> 
> WKORV is basically the same layout and has the same issue, minus the tiny kitchen window since its corridors are interior.
> 
> I have heard that WMH has individual BBQs for each unit which would be a nice thing.  But all the recent problems have dissuaded me from staying there.


Only individual BBQ for the larger unit.  The smaller units also have a queen bed.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 8, 2021)

robertk2012 said:


> Only individual BBQ for the larger unit.  The smaller units also have a queen bed.


I would be shocked it is a queen. We just checked in and are in a small 1BR. It looks like it has a queen bed sheet on it, but it is too big. I swear it is a double!


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## PcflEZFlng (Jul 9, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> I would be shocked it is a queen. We just checked in and are in a small 1BR. It looks like it has a queen bed sheet on it, but it is too big. I swear it is a double!


Looking forward to your video review of WMH.


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## robertk2012 (Jul 9, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> I would be shocked it is a queen. We just checked in and are in a small 1BR. It looks like it has a queen bed sheet on it, but it is too big. I swear it is a double!


I measured and it isn’t a queen by measurement….


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## dioxide45 (Jul 9, 2021)

At WMH, they look to be doing renovations on buildings 30-33. Repainting the exteriors a gray color instead of the previous sandy color. We didn't get a renovated villa, so not sure what they look like on the inside. The lighting may make this hard to see, but the left is the old color and on the right it has been repainted.


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## PcflEZFlng (Jul 14, 2021)

@dioxide45 Saw your post on the Marriott forum where you're planning to do a video comparison of DSVI and DSVII. Are you planning to do the same here for WDW vs. WMH?


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## robertk2012 (Jul 14, 2021)

Waste of time.  Don’t even consider WMH right now.


PcflEZFlng said:


> @dioxide45 Saw your post on the Marriott forum where you're planning to do a video comparison of DSVI and DSVII. Are you planning to do the same here for WDW vs. WMH?


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## dioxide45 (Jul 14, 2021)

PcflEZFlng said:


> @dioxide45 Saw your post on the Marriott forum where you're planning to do a video comparison of DSVI and DSVII. Are you planning to do the same here for WDW vs. WMH?


Yes, I do plan on making one comparing the Westins.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 14, 2021)

robertk2012 said:


> Waste of time.  Don’t even consider WMH right now.


This was our first visit and it wasn't as bad as you made it out to sound. Of course, we don't have yesteryear to compare it to. We didn't miss the hotel access because we weren't expecting it. I wasn't a big fan of the loud music at the pools, but I liked the courtyard area in the west section. It was super hot, but our room was pretty nice. They are doing renovations to the buildings in the west section that face the golf course.

My wife actually said it was perhaps her favorite resort in the area so far.


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## robertk2012 (Jul 15, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> This was our first visit and it wasn't as bad as you made it out to sound. Of course, we don't have yesteryear to compare it to. We didn't miss the hotel access because we weren't expecting it. I wasn't a big fan of the loud music at the pools, but I liked the courtyard area in the west section. It was super hot, but our room was pretty nice. They are doing renovations to the buildings in the west section that face the golf course.
> 
> My wife actually said it was perhaps her favorite resort in the area so far.



No food or drink was available on property. 
Pools closed extremely early…before sunset.
Queen bed in the smaller 1bd that wasn’t even a queen. 
Dusty Patio
Broken Grills
Our phone didn’t work
Extremely tacky gate and sign between properties. 
Playgrounds were closed
Weird pool reservation system that limited your pool use to 3 hrs per day. You could only schedule via phone or in person the day before. 
Poor WiFi
I’m sure I can think of more!


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## Living the Dream (Aug 3, 2021)

My wife and I came home yesterday from a weekend at this facility.  Sadly, the situation has only gotten worse.  I don't own in this complex, but we have stayed here many times over the years.  The situation with the hotel has become downright hostile.  The fence on the walkway connecting the villas with the hotel has been upgraded to a five foot permanent fence that is padlocked.  See attached picture.  There is no food or beverage service available anywhere on the footprint of the villas.  We were instructed to bring our own, or to use one of the food delivery services and order takeout from a local restaurant  One employee told me that the liquor license was shared by the two facilities but that the hotel kept it and the villas are in the process of securing a new one.  

We have no intention of returning to this location.  It was obviously built with the intent of sharing facilities with the hotel.  The hotel has new ownership and Marriot blames them for the problems, but these issues could have been negotiated as part of the terms of sale.  It seems to me that Marriot has no interest in keeping Westin timeshare owners happy.  If I actually had purchased in this facility, I would be livid.


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## tkrisnel (Aug 3, 2021)

After reading al of this, glad to be booked for WDW instead of WMH for late August.  That said, it looks like much of WDW is still closed, despite the city lifting restrictions.  Heard that Agave was set to reopen 7/31, but website shows it still closed.  Anyone have any recent info?


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## robertk2012 (Aug 3, 2021)

Living the Dream said:


> My wife and I came home yesterday from a weekend at this facility.  Sadly, the situation has only gotten worse.  I don't own in this complex, but we have stayed here many times over the years.  The situation with the hotel has become downright hostile.  The fence on the walkway connecting the villas with the hotel has been upgraded to a five foot permanent fence that is padlocked.  See attached picture.  There is no food or beverage service available anywhere on the footprint of the villas.  We were instructed to bring our own, or to use one of the food delivery services and order takeout from a local restaurant  One employee told me that the liquor license was shared by the two facilities but that the hotel kept it and the villas are in the process of securing a new one.
> 
> We have no intention of returning to this location.  It was obviously built with the intent of sharing facilities with the hotel.  The hotel has new ownership and Marriot blames them for the problems, but these issues could have been negotiated as part of the terms of sale.  It seems to me that Marriot has no interest in keeping Westin timeshare owners happy.  If I actually had purchased in this facility, I would be livid.



Everyone should post negative reviews for the hotel until they tear down that fence.


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## daviator (Aug 3, 2021)

Living the Dream said:


> The hotel has new ownership and Marriot blames them for the problems, but these issues could have been negotiated as part of the terms of sale.  It seems to me that Marriot has no interest in keeping Westin timeshare owners happy.  If I actually had purchased in this facility, I would be livid.



While the situation at WMH is lousy, your comments reflect some common misperceptions about what happened.

Marriott (the hotel company) never owned this hotel, it was owned by an investment company.  Marriott Hotels operates the hotel under contract to the investment company.  Marriott's predecessor (Starwood Hotels) may have owned the hotel when it was developed, I don't actually know, but that was decades ago.

The Westin Mission Hills timeshare portion is owned by Vistana (well, it's mostly owned by the thousands of timeshare owners) which is in turn owned by Marriott Vacations Worldwide, *which is a completely different company than Marriott Hotels*.  So up until a couple of years ago, you had the hotel operated by Marriott Hotels and the timeshare operated by Vistana with some kind of agreement to share some facilities.  Then the hotel sold and the new owners didn't want to share their facilities any more.  It's a bad situation but both Marriotts (the hotel company and the timeshare company) are not really the culprits.

I don't have any idea why the hotel's new owners want to wall off the two properties.  Maybe they're hoping that Vistana will pay them, I don't know.  It's a bad deal all around.  I'm glad I don't own there.  I sort of wonder if this isn't a prelude to the new owners rebranding the hotel and contracting with somebody else (Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) and completely separating it.

I think it's fair to be livid at Vistana that they apparently didn't have a long-term contract allowing use of the facilities at the Marriott hotel.  This seems like something they should have had from the beginning.  And I've got to imagine there will be lawsuits over this unless WMH owners were notified when they purchased that the use of the hotel facilities could be withdrawn at any time.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

tkrisnel said:


> After reading al of this, glad to be booked for WDW instead of WMH for late August.  That said, it looks like much of WDW is still closed, despite the city lifting restrictions.  Heard that Agave was set to reopen 7/31, but website shows it still closed.  Anyone have any recent info?


Agave was open when we were there in July.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

daviator said:


> I don't have any idea why the hotel's new owners want to wall off the two properties. Maybe they're hoping that Vistana will pay them, I don't know. It's a bad deal all around. I'm glad I don't own there. I sort of wonder if this isn't a prelude to the new owners rebranding the hotel and contracting with somebody else (Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) and completely separating it.


These are good questions for the BOD. What agreement/contract was in place when Marriott International was managing the hotel property.  When the hotel was bought by new owners they also went with a different management company. The hotel was previously managed by Marriott International and now it isn't, even though it is still a Westin.

With other Marriott resorts with similar arrangements (Desert Springs Villas, Canyon Villas, Lakeshore Reserve), there is a contract in place and a fee is charged as part of the owner maintenance fees for that shared usage. I don't know if a similar payment was being collected with the MFs for WMH owners. An owner would need to look at the line by line financials to see if such a payment was being budgeted.

Two things could have happened. The contract simply expired or was only in place with Marriott International and the new owner was not bound to the contract. Or the new owners didn't like the current arrangement and opted to try to renegotiate and the HOA wasn't willing to pay. Also possible that they simply decided to break the contract. It would probably be more expensive for the HOA to litigate it. And to what end? If the hotel doesn't want the WMH guests over there, then why try to litigate it and force them to allow it. THere really isn't any damages to the WMH owners as long as they aren't paying a fee to the hotel for use. I highly doubt that Vistana sold the units with a guarantee of usage rights at the hotel. That would be pretty foolish. Unless it is in the contract, then it doesn't exist.


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## tkrisnel (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Agave was open when we were there in July.


Thanks for that info - hope it stays open!


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 3, 2021)

_Caveat emptor._

This is not a unique situation.  The Four Seasons Hotel at Aviara is now a Hyatt, to the disadvantage of Four Seasons Aviara timeshare owners.  The Marriott adjacent to Desert Springs I first became unavailable and is now less available to DSI timeshare owners.  The relationship between the Westin Princeville timeshares and the Princeville Hotel / St. Regis Hotel / One Hotel has changed as often as the name of that hotel.

The lesson is that affiliation agreements with hotels are not forever.  If the hotel amenities are a significant incentive for the timeshare purchase, one must do due diligence to verify how long hotel access will be guaranteed before purchasing the adjacent timeshare.


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## tommerj (Aug 3, 2021)

I'm currently staying at WMH and this probably be my last time here and from now I will go to the WDW. My wife and I came down for the week and since we couldn't get into either place for the weekend, we stayed at Ritz Carlton on points because the point value was amazing.

BIG MISTAKE!

After staying at the Ritz, going to WMH feels like going to a Motel 6. It was a big letdown. Dishwasher rack was broken, fortunately maintenance came quickly and fixed that. The sheets on our bed were worn and grainy and when we asked them to replace it, they gave us new sheets but we had to change the bed. For the three days I have been here there has been a Coke can in the drain spout that no one has moved. 

However, the biggest issue is that when I went for a walk this morning on the path to the Westin Mission Hills to go to the golf course, I was greeted by a fence that looked the Berlin Wall. When I asked the WMH front desk why was this wall put up they informed me of the sale and that there were no longer reciprocal privileges. To me, that has devalued WMH significantly and I doubt I will be staying here again. 

I have stayed at both resorts down here three times and I liked having the hotel next door but now that is now is no longer an option, I highly recommend WDW.

Oh, and has been noted before, you can not get any food or drinks here as the restaurant is closed.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

tommerj said:


> I'm currently staying at WMH and this probably be my last time here and from now I will go to the WDW. My wife and I came down for the week and since we couldn't get into either place for the weekend, we stayed at Ritz Carlton on points because the point value was amazing.
> 
> BIG MISTAKE!
> 
> ...


What is the photos supposed to be of?


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## BJRSanDiego (Aug 3, 2021)

I had a 2 BR res next January at WMH.  I read a bunch of comments here on Tug and then checked with Tripadvisor. Based on the poor reviews and comments I did an ePlus retrade to get a 1 BR exchange at WDW.  I'm glad that I did.


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## controller1 (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> What is the photos supposed to be of?



Coke can in the drain spout.


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## robertk2012 (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> What is the photos supposed to be of?



Toilet 


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## tommerj (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> What is the photos supposed to be of?


The lack of attention to detail. Also, our bathroom was dirty with hair when we checked in.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

controller1 said:


> Coke can in the drain spout.


Got it, I couldn't get that much detail from the photo. It was pretty small.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

tommerj said:


> The lack of attention to detail. Also, our bathroom was dirty with hair when we checked in.



Attention to detail isn't limited to just WMH. I have seen it at a number of resorts. Especially with litter around the property. Saw quite a bit of it at Marriott's Canyon Villas. They simply don't have the staff to take care of these things. They have a hard enough time getting the bare necessities done. At least some resorts are better than others.


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## robertk2012 (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Attention to detail isn't limited to just WMH. I have seen it at a number of resorts. Especially with litter around the property. Saw quite a bit of it at Marriott's Canyon Villas. They simply don't have the staff to take care of these things. They have a hard enough time getting the bare necessities done. At least some resorts are better than others.



Maybe if they didn’t use multiple people to enforce pool limits….


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2021)

robertk2012 said:


> Maybe if they didn’t use multiple people to enforce pool limits….
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am not aware that the pool limits are still in place. When we were there a few weeks ago, there was no mention of a pool schedule or limits.


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## tommerj (Aug 3, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Attention to detail isn't limited to just WMH not being llmited. I have seen it at a number of resorts. Especially with litter around the property. Saw quite a bit of it at Marriott's Canyon Villas. They simply don't have the staff to take care of these things. They have a hard enough time getting the bare necessities done. At least some resorts are better than others.


You are right about the attention of detail not being just at WMH. It's just after staying at the Ritz, this experience has been bad. All places are extremely short staffed. I stayed at the Westin KOR during Memorial Day Weekend and two of the four restaurants were closed and everything was a wait and the workers who were there were not their usual friendly selves.


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## tkrisnel (Aug 26, 2021)

Update on WDW - we are here now for one week.  Currently open pools: upper mirage, ironwood (including water slide), and quiet pool.  (Lower mirage & water slide as well as palo verde pool are closed due to chlorine shortage (which means the one any only toddler pool on property is closed.  Sanctuary pool bar is open, sun shop & cabanas are open, and just newly reopened is the mountain view market place!  (happy bonus).  All and all the stay is good, nearly 100% of staff are friendly and attentive.  The rooms and grounds are clean.  Happy to be here.  Only issue is a hiccup in vistana resort credit, which I will post on that thread.


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## tebery (Mar 16, 2022)

Hi,

My wife and I will be staying at the WDW for the first time. Any suggestions on what building to stay in? 
We will be without kiddos so don’t need to be by a family pool.

Thanks!


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Mar 16, 2022)

tebery said:


> Hi,
> 
> My wife and I will be staying at the WDW for the first time. Any suggestions on what building to stay in?
> We will be without kiddos so don’t need to be by a family pool.
> ...


There's a recent thread about this near the top of the board. Why not put your question on there?


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## dioxide45 (Mar 16, 2022)

tebery said:


> Hi,
> 
> My wife and I will be staying at the WDW for the first time. Any suggestions on what building to stay in?
> We will be without kiddos so don’t need to be by a family pool.
> ...











						Desert Willow Questions
					

Heading to WDW at end of march for an 8 night stay.  On the hub site it lists the sidewinder waterslide and onsite restaurant as closed.  Anyone been recently that may have talked to staff about if/when they may re-open these?  This is our first time staying on property.  Traveling w/ 3 kids...




					tugbbs.com


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## Mulege (Mar 16, 2022)

grgs said:


> Thanks for pics!  It's certainly off putting.  I hope they are able to work something outhat and open the path again.


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## Mulege (Mar 16, 2022)

I may be mistaken but in the most recent Board of Directors owners update said that they were in negotiations to secure an arrangement to share hotel facilities. The closure came about when the hotel was sold and the new owners made the decision not to share. Time will tell


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## tebery (Mar 16, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Desert Willow Questions
> 
> 
> Heading to WDW at end of march for an 8 night stay.  On the hub site it lists the sidewinder waterslide and onsite restaurant as closed.  Anyone been recently that may have talked to staff about if/when they may re-open these?  This is our first time staying on property.  Traveling w/ 3 kids...
> ...




Thanks!!


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## grgs (Mar 17, 2022)

Just checked in at WDW.  Here's the latest resort info:


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## dioxide45 (Mar 21, 2022)

grgs said:


> Just checked in at WDW.  Here's the latest resort info:
> 
> View attachment 49376


Not very easy to read, but I was able to zoom in and make out some of what it says. It doesn't look like there is an update on the hotel access situation?


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## daviator (Mar 21, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Not very easy to read, but I was able to zoom in and make out some of what it says. It doesn't look like there is an update on the hotel access situation?


Likely not, since this is the resort info from WDW, not from WMH where the hotel access issue exists.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 21, 2022)

daviator said:


> Likely not, since this is the resort info from WDW, not from WMH where the hotel access issue exists.


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## grgs (Mar 21, 2022)

daviator said:


> Likely not, since this is the resort info from WDW, not from WMH where the hotel access issue exists.


Correct--this was for WDW.


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2022)

We spent 2 weeks at WDW in mid January followed immediately by 2 weeks at  Mission Hills. Our experiences at Mission Hills were superior in most respects. WDW was significantly understaffed. To begin our vacation, we waited in line( out the lobby door) for a 4 o'clock check and ended up leaving after 20 minutes, returning several hour later to receive keys.
Joining us on this trip was a couple that owned at Desert Willow. They came over to WMH on a Explorer  package and  were very happy with the resort.
When they attended  their obligatory WMH sales meeting at WDW (all WMH owner/sales meetings take place at WDW)  they told the sales rep they wanted to trade their unit at WDW  for a unit at WMH!. Of course, everything is possible in sale sessions and were told they could swap resorts as long as they paid 28k for the transaction.


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## KACTravels (Mar 26, 2022)

Kildahl said:


> When they attended  their obligatory WMH sales meeting at WDW (all WMH owner/sales meetings take place at WDW)  they told the sales rep they wanted to trade their unit at WDW  for a unit at WMH!. Of course, everything is possible in sale sessions and were told they could swap resorts as long as they paid 28k for the transaction.


Isn‘t it an easy 8 month Reservation?  And lower Maintenance fees for WDW?


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2022)

If accurate, I doubt that the sales agent was going to talk them out of a sales event. 
The balance of their meeting time was spent on the new world order (they didn't mention MARSHA) suggesting that our friends should get on board now before circumstances change
They didn't "buy".
We declined to use our owner update.


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


>


We were at WMH the first two weeks of February.  The path is still blocked but you can walk around it with without bushwacking. We walked over to the hotel grounds. enjoyed the landscaping and found the Market and restaurants  and bars open. When asked by the hostess at the Pinzimini if we would like dinner reservations I declined, but added that we hoped to return once a new agreement had been arrived at by the hotel and WMH.
The one hotel amenity that was not open was the swimming pool. It is a major renovation and looked near completion.


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2022)

grgs said:


> Just checked in at WDW.  Here's the latest resort info:
> 
> View attachment 49376


Hope your stay was a good one, Glorian. Did you notice any construction on  the  new  surfing development, adjacent to the property?


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## grgs (Mar 26, 2022)

Kildahl said:


> Hope your stay was a good one, Glorian. Did you notice any construction on  the  new  surfing development, adjacent to the property?


We did enjoy our stay.  Mainly just sat at the pool.  I didn't notice anything specific to the surfing thing (https://www.dsrtsurf.com/).  There are portions of land with fencing around WDW, but thought maybe that was for a new phase going in?


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## Kildahl (Mar 26, 2022)

The surfing development runs along Portola from the edge of the WDW property toward the golf course clubhouse.
If you are referring to the fencing  near Building 9, I think you are correct.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 27, 2022)

Our preferences in order…
Large 1Bd WMH, large 1Bd WDW, small 1Bd WDW, and small 1Bd WMH

As a resort, we like WMH better than WDW, but hate the Queen mattress in small 1Bd WMH.

Don’t care about the lack of access to WMH hotel.


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