# 2012 - Please post your 2012 Starwood maintenance fees here



## DeniseM

Please post 2012 Starwood Maintenance fees in this thread

Maintenance fee bills have started coming you, so I am starting our annual thread.

*Please post the breakdown of all fees - not just the total.*

*Please do NOT post discussion of fees here - they will be deleted.*

THANKS!

Example:

    Vistana Resort - Lakes

    Dedicated 2 Bdm.

    Operating Assessment - $656.38
    Replacement Reserve - $125.43
    Estimated Real Estate Tax - $141.56
    SVN Fee - $0.00 *
    ARDA Contribution - $0.00 **

    TOTAL - $923.27


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## DeniseM

*I will organize all fees here as they come in.*

These figures do NOT include ARDA or SVN fees.

They DO include any fees that all owners at the resort must pay such as Amenities Access Fee and replacement reserve, and taxes.

Lakeside Terrace 
High Season - 2 Bd. - $1,048.77
Off Season - 2 Bd. - $617.86
High Season - 2 Bd. EOY - $524.69

Sheraton Broadway Plantation
*Plantation Phase*
2 Bd. L/O - $1,404.81
2 Bd. - $1,122.67
Lg. 1 Bd. - $906.72
2 Bd. EOY - $561.33
Sm. 1 Bd. - $498.09
Sm. 1 Bd. EOY - $249.05

Sheraton Vistana Resort
*Cascades*
Sm. 1 Bd. - $390.82
2 Bd. L/O - $ 981.30
2 Bd. - $772.96
*Lakes Phase*
2 Bd L/O - $1,148.28
*Springs*
2 Bd. - $828.45

Sheraton Vistana Villages
*Bella Phase*
Standard 2 Bd - $972.63 + taxes
2 Bd L/O - $1260.22 + taxes
2 Bd. EOY - $671.41 
*Key West Phase*
2 Bd  - $978.11
2 Bd. L/O - $1,400.68

Westin Desert Willow
2 Bd. L/O EOY - $766.73 

Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas - South
2 Bd. L/O Deluxe (corner) - $2,825.51
2 Bd. L/O - $2,180.74

Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas - North
2 bd. L/O - $2,344.56
2 bd. L/O EOY - $1,192.28 

Westin Kierland Villas
*Previous year's tax credits vary - see posts below
2 Bd. L/O - $1289.13
Lg. 1 Bd. - $752.77

Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
EOY - 2 Bd. L/O - $1,253.29
2 Bd L/O - $2,466.57

Westin St. John
*Bay View*
2BR - $1,731.12
2BR/loft - $1,968.10
3BR - $2,086.59
*Virgin Gorda*
Studio - $1469.32
1Bd - $1959.16
2Bd TH - $2449.00
2Bd Prem - $2938.64
3Bd Pool/Prem - $2938.85


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> under construction



feel free to delete, but I suggest to remove the SVN fee (because they vary depending on # of VOIs owned) and also remove ARDA fee as they are not part of the MF.

also - it is the proposed budgets that are coming in - not the actual - those probably will not come until Dec/Jan.

how about % change from last year?

later


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## DeniseM

David - you want me to do MATH?   

I was trying to make it easy so people can just copy and paste from MSC if they wish...


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## squeeze

*Villages Key West*

I received the bill today. 
oh well, it's that time of the year.

Mod, please feel free to let me know if I need to post more info. than this, but here goes:

This is a 2 bdrm (NON LOCK OFF) @ Sheraton Vistana Villages


Total Maintenance & Reserve Fee (5): $978.11
Club Dues (6):                                 $125.00
Total Maintenance Resrve & Club dues:$1,103.11 

Of course the bill is broken down in further detail, but these are the basics of how they total up.


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## KACTravels

*Westin Princeville Ocean Resort 2BD LO EOY*

Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
EOY 2BR LO  

Vacation Ownership Assessment      $1,086.53
Amenities Access Fee                     $50.00
SVN Membership Fee Add'l Week      $34.38
Replacement Reserve                      $116.76
ARDA-ROC PAC Contribution             $5.00

Total                                             $1,292.67


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## pathways25

*Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas - 2BR LO annual*

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 2,366.57
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 34.38
Other* 		  $ 100.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 2,505.95
Less Payments*** 		  $ 0.00 


Net of SVN and ARDA is $2,466.57, an increase of $109.64 (4.65%).


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## VacationForever

*2012 SVR (Lakes) 2BR L/O EY*

2012 Sheraton Vistana Lakes, 2 BR L/O EY
Operating Assessment $830.56
Replacement Reserve  $208.75
Estimated Real Estate Tax $108.97
(SVN $125, ARDA $5)
Total: $1148.28 (excluded SVN and ARDA)

2011 - $975.04 (no ARDA and no SVN)

Increase: 17.77% :annoyed:


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## woodyd70

*Sheraton Vistana Villages (BELLA)*

PROPOSED BUDGET OF OPERATING EXPENSES FOR SVV BELLA


Standard 2br - $972.63 + $125 (SVN) = $1097.63
2br Lockoff - $1260.22  + $125 (SVN) = $1385.22

I believe the Real Estate taxes are to be billed separately.........not sure what the damage will be there, but last year the 2br was $108.98

This appears to be an increase of around $60 on the 2br Maintenance fee including taxes (considering taxes stay the same)


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## jarta

There is a difference between a notice of a 2012 proposed budget and a 2012 bill for MF, folks.

The Bella 2012 proposed budget will not even be up for an approval vote until the annual meeting scheduled for November 3 - this upcoming Thursday.  The bill for 2012 MF cannot be generated or mailed until after the 2012 actual budget is adopted.    ...   eom


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## VacationForever

jarta said:


> There is a difference between a notice of a 2012 proposed budget and a 2012 bill for MF, folks.
> 
> The Bella 2012 proposed budget will not even be up for an approval vote until the annual meeting scheduled for November 3 - this upcoming Thursday.  The bill for 2012 MF cannot be generated or mailed until after the 2012 actual budget is adopted.    ...   eom



My SVR notice looks like a bill, smells like a bill and is a bill.  It is mailed both to my home address and sitting in MSC account, clearly stating balance due and date due.


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## jarta

Well, then maybe for your week at SVR you have a bill.  I didn't say you posted something wrong for your week at SVR.  I just pointed out that until the proposed budget becomes final, the MF cannot be billed.  And, I used Bella as an example.

I own at Bella (SVV, not SVR).  The MFs have already been posted by woodyd70 (3 posts up) and I sure don't have a bill.  All I have is a 2-page document.

Page One is entitled Notice and tells me of the Date of the Bella annual meeting (November 3) and the Agenda for that meeting.  Page Two is entitled "Proposed Budget of Operating Expenses" and, later down the page, "Proposed Budget of Reserves for Replacement."

When I went to mystrcentral tonight after reading your post, the last statement that comes up is the one for 2011.  The projected MF for 2012 still shows as the same amount as the 2011 MF I paid.  That's because the 2012 MF at Bella has not been billed yet.   ...   eom


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## VacationForever

jarta said:


> Well, then maybe for your week at SVR you have a bill.  I didn't say you posted something wrong for your week at SVR.  I just pointed out that until the proposed budget becomes final, the MF cannot be billed.  And, I used Bella as an example.
> 
> I own at Bella (SVV, not SVR).  The MFs have already been posted by woodyd70 (3 posts up) and I sure don't have a bill.  All I have is a 2-page document.
> 
> Page One is entitled Notice and tells me of the Date of the Bella annual meeting (November 3) and the Agenda for that meeting.  Page Two is entitled "Proposed Budget of Operating Expenses" and, later down the page, "Proposed Budget of Reserves for Replacement."
> 
> When I went to mystrcentral tonight after reading your post, the last statement that comes up is the one for 2011.  The projected MF for 2012 still shows as the same amount as the 2011 MF I paid.  That's because the 2012 MF at Bella has not been billed yet.   ...   eom



Acknowledged!   Having said that the annual meeting for SVR (Lakes) is coming up and I suspect portion of meeting regarding MF is not something that is going to get voted on.


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## C30NY

Sheraton Broadway Plantation - Original Phase
2 Bed-room

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 1,122.67
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 1,127.67 

Increase of $157.39 (16.3% increase on last years MF   )


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## rickandcindy23

*Sheraton Broadway Plantation 2 bed lockoff*:
2012 Operating Assessment: $912.46
2012 Replacement Reserve: $492.35
ARDA crap fee (won't pay it)*$1,404.81* Total Due by January 6th

*Sheraton Broadway Plantation small 1 bedroom*:
2012 Operating Assessment: $323.52
2012 Replacement Reserve: $174.57
ARDA crap fee again (won't pay) *$498.09 *Total Due by January 6th

Huge increases over last year for the lockoff.  


They are charging an SVN member fee on one of my lockoffs.  :rofl:


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## jerseygirl

Sheraton Broadway Plantation Standard 2-BR
2012 Total Due (pre-ARDA, SVN Fees)  $1122.67
2011 Total Due (pre-ARDA, SVN Fees)    $965.28

That's a 14% increase -- outrageous.


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## sui

Sheraton Broadway Plantation Deluxe 1br
2012 $428.26
2011 $498.09
16.3% increase...


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## rickandcindy23

sui said:


> Sheraton Broadway Plantation Deluxe 1br
> 2012 $428.26
> 2011 $498.09
> 16.3% increase...



I think you got something backwards.


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## siesta

Wrong thread.


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## RALnGA

*SBP*

Broadway Plantation 
2012 Operating Assessment 

Premium one Bedroom -- EY
Operating Assessment---------$588.94
Replacement Reserve----------$317.78
SVN Membership---------------$125.00
ARDA-ROC PAC Contribution----$5.00
*Total   $1036.72*
Deluxe One Bedroom--EOY
Operating Assessment---------$161.76
Replacement Reserve ---------$87.29
SVN Membership--------------$33.00
ARDA-ROC PAC Contribution---$5.00
*Total   $287.05*
:annoyed:


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VG MFs*

2Bd/3Bd TH Villa
2012 Operating Assessment: $1998.04
2012 Replacement Reserve: $450.96
Total = $2449.00

8.5% decrease from 2011 (and 2011 was a 6.7% decrease from 2010)

(looks like I won the 'Guess the 2012 MFs' competition w/ $2400 - of course I was the only one that guessed...) 

Main Expenses:
Payroll ~$578
Operating ~$810 ($126 Admin, $347 Maintenance, $220 Utilities, $110, HouseKeep, $104 Ins)
Other ~$902 ($111 Debt, $223 Management and $451 RR)

Studio = $1469.32
1Bd = $1959.16
2Bd TH  = $2449.00
2Bd Prem = $2938.64
3Bd Pool/Prem = $2938.85


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## DavidnRobin

*2012 SVN Fee*

$125 for single week
$158 for multi-week


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## DanCali

Has there been any news about getting 50% owner rate certificates for paying early?

Those are great - I booked 2BR villas for 3 nights (max nights on this promo) at SVV for $85! No holiday blackouts either... Awesome perk from Starwood for owners who pay early - I hope it lasts.


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## l2trade

DanCali said:


> Has there been any news about getting 50% owner rate certificates for paying early?
> 
> Those are great - I booked 2BR villas for 3 nights (max nights on this promo) at SVV for $85! No holiday blackouts either... Awesome perk from Starwood for owners who pay early - I hope it lasts.



I asked about it a few weeks back and was told no.  Still waiting on MF bills.  I guess this time I can take my time paying them...


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## pathways25

*Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North - 2BR LO annual*

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 2,344.56
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 2,349.56
Less Payments*** 		  $ 0.00
Total Due 		  $ 2,349.56 


Net of SVN and ARDA is $2,344.56, an increase of $30.13 (1.3%).


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## pathways25

*Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North - 2BR LO EOY*

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 1,192.28
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 0.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 1,192.28
Less Payments*** 		  $ 0.00
Total Due 		  $ 1,192.28 


Net of SVN and ARDA is $1,192.28, an increase of $15.07 (1.3%).


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## pathways25

*Sheraton Vistana Villages, Key West phase - 2BR annual*

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 978.11
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 110.96
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 125.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 1,219.07
Less Payments*** 		  $ 0.00
Total Due 		  $ 1,219.07 


Net of SVN and ARDA is $1,089.07, an increase of $118.62 (12.2%)!


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## letsgomets

*WSJ BV*

2BR - $1,731.12
2BR/loft - $1,968.10
3BR - $2,086.59

roughly 30% is above line expenses - condo common (54 units).  70% is below line - vacation ownership (41 units).  don't know why the # of units is different.


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## Ridewithme38

Woot! My first MF bill EVER!

Sheraton Broadway Plantation
2br Every ODD Year - Plantation phase

2012 Operating Assessment - $364.60
2012 Replacement Reserve -  $196.73
2012 ARDA-ROC PAC Contribution - $5.00

Total $566.33

Percentage increase from last year = I don't know, i didn't own last year!


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## PamMo

DavidnRobin said:


> $125 for single week
> $158 for multi-week



Taxes added to SVN fees? My amounts are $130.21 for first week and $34.38 for second week, for a total of $164.59.


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## YYJMSP

PamMo said:


> Taxes added to SVN fees? My amounts are $130.21 for first week and $34.38 for second week, for a total of $164.59.



If your first purchase(s) with SVO are in Hawaii, there's sales tax on the SVN fee.

I had previously had them swap the order of my units to get around that, but then they swapped them back saying we weren't allowed to do that...


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## kcoleman

*Sheraton Broadway Plantation - Annual Float 1 Bdrm Villa*

2012 Operating Assessment - $413.96
2012 Replacement Reserve - $223.36 (ouch!)

Total:   $637.32


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## C30NY

*EOY 2BR @ SVV Bella*

2BR EOY @ SVV (Bella)

$546.41 (includes Tax, does not include SVN fee)
*
Current Year Charges*

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 486.31
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 60.10

Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 125.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00

ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00
Sub-Total
*Current Year Charges 		  $ 676.41

Total Due 		  $ 671.41 *


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## hefleycatz

SVV Key West - 2 bdrm l/o

Prior Year Tax Credit                          ($   30.54)
2012 Operating Assessment                  $1073.60
2012 Replacement Reserve                   $  216.59
2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax            $   141.03
2012 SVN Membership Fee                   $   125.00
2012 ARDA-ROC Pac Contribution          $       5.00

TOTAL DUE                                       $1530.68


OUCH!!!! That hurts 

lee


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## KACTravels

SVV Springs - 2BD
Current Year Charges
Maintenance Fee(s)		  $ 767.33
Tax - If Applicable		  $ 61.12
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**          $ 5.00
Current Year Charges		  $ 833.45


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## KACTravels

WKORN-N  2BDLO
 Current Year Charges
Maintenance Fee(s)		  $ 2,344.56
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 130.21
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**	   $ 5.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges		  $ 2,479.77

2012 annual Forecast for operating plan and Budget ￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Category
￼Average $/Unit Week Increase/(Decrease)
Details
*overall $30:  1.3% increase in total assessments. key areas of change are noted below.
*prior Year (surplus)/Deficit reduction: ($100) Driven by the 2010 and 2011 tax settlement with Maui county.
*ad Valorem/real estate taxes:  ($66) savings due to reductions in property valuations.
*special projects: $55 For modifications necessary to comply with recent federal legislative changes in the americans with Disabilities act.
*reserves: $54 Funding required to achieve reserve expenditure plan.
*Gas: $32 increased cost of liquid propane coupled with reduced consumption due to energy conservation measures.


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## Pedro

*Lakeside Terrace Two-bedroom unit - Regular Season *

2012 Operating Assessment:    $ 849.39
2012 Replacement Reserve:     $ 199.38

*Lakeside Terrace Two-bedroom unit - Shoulder Season *

2012 Operating Assessment:    $ 500.11
2012 Replacement Reserve:     $ 117.75


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## grgs

*Westin Kierland 2 bedroom LO Annual*

Prior Year(s) Tax Credit ($8.49)
Operating Assessment $1076.66
Replacement Reserve $164.80
Estimated Real Estate Tax $47.67
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib. $ 0.00 (removed since I don't pay this)
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges $1289.13

(2011 mf was $1216.08; so a 6% increase)

The newsletter accompanying the mf bill states that the increase is 5.8%.

Glorian


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## grgs

*Westin Kierland 1 Bedroom Premium Annual*

Prior Year(s) Tax Credit ($36.71)
Operating Assessment $660.92
Replacement Reserve $101.16
Estimated Real Estate Tax $27.40
Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib. $ 0.00 (removed since I don't pay this)
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges $752.77

(2011 mf was $743.46; so a 1.25% increase)

Not sure why the tax credit is larger for the one bedroom premium than the 2 bedroom LO?

Glorian


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## gtm2011

*Westin Kierland 1 Bedroom Premium Annual*

Operating Assessment $660.92
Replacement Reserve $101.16
Estimated Real Estate Tax $27.40

Current Year Charges $789.48 (No tax credit, SVN fee or ARDA)


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## jarta

DeniseM,   ...   I assume a primary use of the data posted here is to compare 2011 to 2012 MFs.  We do not have apples to apples being posted here.   

Part of the confusion is that Starwood changed accounting procedure to add credits to account for recovery of taxes paid or lower taxes paid on the previous estimated tax amounts which turned out to be erroneous.  The initial taxes which must be paid to prevent a tax sale of any property or other penalties for unpaid user fees/taxes are beyond the control of management or the HOA board - but they are responsible for collecting, paying and, in some instances, refunding those taxes through a credit back to the owner.  The new method of showing how the MF bill was calculated isolates and better shows net taxes by showing both prior year credits and 2012 estimated, but unfinal, tax liabilities.

This change in reporting taxes can be handled various ways here.  However, I suggest that the "total" MFs be posted with the previous year(s) tax credits being a deduction against the assessment to pay for 2012 operating expenses, reserve expenses and estimated 2012 taxes (which will become known sometime during 2012).

The most important thing is that the reporting here be standardized so that the expense paid last year (2011) can be compared to the amount billed for this upcoming year (2012) - without SVN and ARDA fees showing.  (That's the way grgs has posted them.)  It's TUG's decision how it wants the "total" MFs posted (and compared) for this year.  But, right now, the reporting of 2012 MFs here is very inconsistent.   ...   eom


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## gtm2011

Jarta,
I assume your post was directed at mine and I disagree.  The Prior Year(s) Tax Credit seemed to be different for every owner.  I assumed this has to do with how long you have owned the property and how much you have over paid over the years.  That is why there is a difference between the last three Westin Kierland quotes.  I am a brand new owner, so I did not receive a Prior Year(s) Tax Credit at all.  The 2 BD LO above only reported an $8.49 credit while the 1 BD reported $36.71 credit.  This is also a thread to report 2012 maintenance fees, comparing them to last year is just an added bonus but not a requirement as I see it.
Jason


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## jarta

gtm2011,   ...   "I assume your post was directed at mine ... This is also a thread to report 2012 maintenance fees, comparing them to last year is just an added bonus but not a requirement as I see it."

My post was not directed at your post.  It was directed at other posts.  I've read them.  It was time to say something about the non-standardization, IMO.  I said it could be handled in different ways.  I think giving the credit is right.  You don't.  Some might argue that, without the credit, MFs would be higher and that number should be used.  All are OK.  But, TUG should have standardized procedure for reporting.

I agree with your analysis of the reason why you did not receive a credit.  However, if the numbers posted are not to to be used other than notifying owners that an assessment bill is coming due, all that needs to be posted is that fact.  There would be no need for numbers at all.  Just notifying the others you received an MF bill would be like theTUG Sightings board:  "The 2012 assessments are out for .......... resort." 

But, this is not the first year this survey has been done.  And, Starwood is not alone with this type of compliation.  Many TUG members (as they should) track the increase in MF at various resorts from year to year.  The question is how to do the tracking so that the posts (all of them) make sense.  I actually don't much care if subtracting the credit or not subtracting the credit is the way it is finally done.   ...   eom


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## Robert D

*Svr & Lt*

Sheraton Vistana Resort Cascades Small 1BR: $390.82
Lakeside Terrace 2BR EOY Winter Week: $524.69


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## YYJMSP

*SVR Cascades 2BR LO*

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 859.72  
Tax - If Applicable    $ 121.58  
Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 0.00  
Other*    $ 0.00  
Interest    $ 0.00  
Late Fees    $ 0.00  
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 0.00  
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 981.30  


2011 was $859.71 + $110.70 = $970.41


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## C30NY

Will this thread be compiled again in the first post or two like the 2011 thread?


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## grgs

*SVR Cascades Regular 2 Bedroom*

Maintenance Fee(s) $662.16
Tax - If Applicable $105.80
Membership Fee - If Applicable $0.00
Other* $0.00
Interest $0.00
Late Fees $0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $0.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges $772.96

2011 fees were: $758.50 (mf: $662.15 & tax: $96.35) ; so about a 1.9% increase due to an increase in taxes.


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## DavidnRobin

j-man - I think the main purpose is to disseminate MFs for SVO VOIs into one location.  Not everyone is listing the percent increase, but also good to track.  I do have the % increases for our VOIs : WSJ, WKORV, WKV, and WPORV going back to 2003/2004 in some cases.  Currently iirc,  only WPORV seems to be trending at a higher pace - the others have settled (or gone down) for the time being.

Trying to summarize/itemize WSJ-VG over the last 5 years would be challenging  as the SA became a RR and then extended to some degree, but it all comes down to what is owed now and in the future - stay viligant.

The tax is minimal compared to the MFs - so it doesn't really matter - although I agree that an accurate and standard summarizing the MFs would be nice, but it ain't going to matter to most, or completed unless someone wants to take it on.


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## YYJMSP

*WKORV 2BR L/O Deluxe*

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 2,825.51  
Tax - If Applicable    $ 0.00  
Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 130.21  
Other*    $ 0.00  
Interest    $ 0.00  
Late Fees    $ 0.00  
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 0.00  
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 2,955.72  


MF portion was $2,825.97 last year, so essentially no change...


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## YYJMSP

*Wdw 2br L/o Eoy*

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 699.25  
Tax - If Applicable    $ 67.48  
Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 0.00  
Other*    $ 0.00  
Interest    $ 0.00  
Late Fees    $ 0.00  
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 0.00  
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 766.73  


Last year's was MF $672.69 + taxes $48.20 = $720.89, so 6.4% increase


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## VacationForever

deleted...


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## DavidnRobin

*WKORV 2 Bd LO Deluxe (corner)*

MF = $2825.51

Essentially same as last year.

YYJMSP - your post above has the wrong title... You have WKORVN in title and meant WKORV
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1206093&postcount=49


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## chibuilder

*Lakeside Terrace in the Vail Valley - $1054.37 for 2012*

Just got my maintenance fee bill for Lakeside Terrace in Beaver Creek, CO. 2br condo:

2012 Operating Assessment: $849.39
2012 Replacement Reserve: $199.98
2012 ARDA-ROC PAC contrib: $ 5.00 (optional)
TOTAL: $1054.37

This is a $140 increase over last year (16.3% increase). Interesting to note that the largest reason for the increase ($46 of the $140) was because of an increased provision for uncollectible accounts. Next came $37 for property enhancements. $12 for housekeeping increases, $10 for utility increases and $5 for engineering staff.


----------



## YYJMSP

DavidnRobin said:


> MF = $2825.51
> 
> Essentially same as last year.
> 
> YY - you post above has the wrong title... You have WKORVN in title and meant WKORV
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1206093&postcount=49



Ooops -- Denise, can you change the title please?  Thanks


----------



## csudell

*HRA phase II proposed*

One bedroom deluxe
851.92 + 125 SVO + 202.86 Atlantis facilities assessment=1542.18

One bedroom premium 
929.37+125+202.66=1652.60

Two bedroom
1006.82+125+288.69=1849.04

Two bedroom lock off
1781.39+125+288.69=2953.16

Three bedroom
1858.75+125+375.30=3150.17

I do not know what the Atlantis facilities assessment is.

Last year my maintenance fees were around $1450 for one bedroom premium.


----------



## jarta

csudell,   ...   "I do not know what the Atlantis facilities assessment is."

This is a thread for posting MF billed.  You have posted the figures from the proposed budget for Phase II.  Budgets are estimates and the MFs are based upon the estimates in the budget.  But, a budget and an MF bill are not the same thing.  The adopted budget can change around numbers (but probably not by much).

The Atlantis Facilities Assessment (payment for access to Atlantis) is the last expense on the first page of the proposed budget.  The total estimated amount is $2,581,676 for everyone - between $202.66 and $375.30 per unit/week.

Phase II at Harborside has 2 components of expense.  Common Expenses for a share of the expenses for the common amenties at Harborside Resort (the outlot).  Condominium Expenses tied to the buildings in Phase II (the condo envelope).  For 2012, it is estimated that the total expense for Uncollectible Accounts for those 2 components of the budget will be slightly over $1M - or 5.27% of the estimated total expenses that will be incurred for 2012.

But please try to wait for the 2012 budget to be adopted and 2012 MF to be billed before posting 2012 MF here.  The budget will be adopted on December 7, 2011.   ...   eom


----------



## zsn

WKORV (South) 2BR/EY/OV

Master Association Assessment    $ 246.64
Apartment Ownership Assessment $ 492.23
Vacation Ownership Assessment $ 1311.66   
SVN Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 130.21  
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 5.00  
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 2185.74  or in my case $ 2180.74

As I remember, last year was may be a few dollars less...(difference <$10)


----------



## csudell

jarta said:


> csudell,   ...   "I do not know what the Atlantis facilities assessment is."
> 
> This is a thread for posting MF billed.  You have posted the figures from the proposed budget for Phase II.  Budgets are estimates and the MFs are based upon the estimates in the budget.  But, a budget and an MF bill are not the same thing.  The adopted budget can change around numbers (but probably not by much).
> 
> The Atlantis Facilities Assessment (payment for access to Atlantis) is the last expense on the first page of the proposed budget.  The total estimated amount is $2,581,676 for everyone - between $202.66 and $375.30 per unit/week.
> 
> Phase II at Harborside has 2 components of expense.  Common Expenses for a share of the expenses for the common amenties at Harborside Resort (the outlot).  Condominium Expenses tied to the buildings in Phase II (the condo envelope).  For 2012, it is estimated that the total expense for Uncollectible Accounts for those 2 components of the budget will be slightly over $1M - or 5.27% of the estimated total expenses that will be incurred for 2012.
> 
> But please try to wait for the 2012 budget to be adopted and 2012 MF to be billed before posting 2012 MF here.  The budget will be adopted on December 7, 2011.   ...   eom



I do realize that this is for billed MF but I thought it could be helpful for an approximation since HRAs havent been billed yet.  As you said, they are usually close.


----------



## jarta

"I thought it could be helpful for an approximation since HRAs havent been billed yet. As you said, they are usually close."

But, you didn't say it was a helpful approximation in your post on this sticky for listing MFs.

You are writing for posterity on this sticky.  Everyone wants to be first with the news and become the TUG scooper.  But the news should be accurate news.  In the past, entries on stickys like this one have been quoted as correct and used in posts throughout the year to compare assessments from year to year.  

No biggie.  Just change the numbers in your post if the numbers are wrong when the MF bills come out in January.

Do you now understand the estimated Atlantis Facilities Assessment at the bottom of  the first page of the proposed 2012 budget for Harborside II?  That's the fee each owner pays for weekly access to the amenities at Harborside for the maximum number of persons allowed in the unit.  If the unit sleeps 4 adults (over age 4?) and the assessment is $202.66 per week, each adult guest pays about $7.24 ($202.66/28) per day for the wristbands - or far less than the retail price of Atlantis day passes for 4.   ...   eom


----------



## csudell

actually, my title did say proposed.

yes, I understand the Atlantis Facilites Assessment now, thanks.  looks like MFs are taking a big hike this year compared to last year.


----------



## zcrider

*proposed*



csudell said:


> actually, my title did say proposed.
> 
> yes, I understand the Atlantis Facilites Assessment now, thanks.  looks like MFs are taking a big hike this year compared to last year.



I read proposed in your title without a problem.  And thanks for posting it, I was wondering what the smaller units were proposed to be, but had only paid attention to the 3 bedroom # when I opened my letter.  Then I had to wonder if this $400 increase that is PROPOSED is a permanent one or is there some sort of special assessment going on for 2012?  And my experience with the proposed amounts is that is the amount my bill is later...


----------



## csudell

*Historic Atlantis Facilities Fee Assessment*

2009 - 100.55
2010  - 104.91
2011 - 107.40
2012 Proposed - 202.66


----------



## jw0

zcrider said:


> I read proposed in your title without a problem.  And thanks for posting it, I was wondering what the smaller units were proposed to be, but had only paid attention to the 3 bedroom # when I opened my letter.  Then I had to wonder if this $400 increase that is PROPOSED is a permanent one or is there some sort of special assessment going on for 2012?  And my experience with the proposed amounts is that is the amount my bill is later...



Perhaps I should be starting a new thread with this...

Actually I'm pretty sure that the increase is semi-permanent.  If you take a look at the past few years of budgets, you'll see that the "reserve" balance was pretty much decimated when they did the latest refurbishment.  I asked at mystarcentral about this and they responded with a comment like, the board has a plan to replenish the reserve (can't furnish the exact quote).  There's really only one logical "plan" - to hike the MFs on the owners.

-J


----------



## RnU

Nothing yet from Lagunamar?


----------



## mjm1

*Kierland Villas EOY large 1 BR Platinum*

We are new owners.  Our MF's for 2012 are:

MF......................401
Taxes.................. 14
SVN....................120
                         ----
Total                   535

I believe this is a small increase from the prior year, but I don't know for sure.


----------



## pathways25

*Sheraton Mountain Vista - 2BR LO annual*

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 1,229.82
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 56.75
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** 		  $ 5.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 1,291.57
Less Payments*** 		  $ 0.00 


Net of SVN and ARDA is $1,286.57, an increase of $111.20 (9.5%)!


----------



## grgs

*SVR Cascades Regular 2 Bedroom CORRECTION*

Oops, I accidentally included the ARDA contribution in the total I gave originally.

Denise, would you correct your summary list?

Thanks!

Glorian

SVR Cascades Regular 2 Bedroom
Maintenance Fee(s) $662.16
Tax - If Applicable $105.80
Membership Fee - If Applicable $0.00
Other* $0.00
Interest $0.00
Late Fees $0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $0.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges *$767.96*

2011 fees were: $758.50 (mf: $662.15 & tax: $96.35) ; so about a *1.2% increase* due to an increase in taxes.



grgs said:


> Maintenance Fee(s) $662.16
> Tax - If Applicable $105.80
> Membership Fee - If Applicable $0.00
> Other* $0.00
> Interest $0.00
> Late Fees $0.00
> ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $0.00
> Sub-Total
> Current Year Charges $772.96
> 
> 2011 fees were: $758.50 (mf: $662.15 & tax: $96.35) ; so about a 1.9% increase due to an increase in taxes.


----------



## YYJMSP

*SVR Spas 2BR*

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 682.29  
Tax - If Applicable    $ 65.20  
Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 0.00  
Other*    $ 0.00  
Interest    $ 0.00  
Late Fees    $ 0.00  
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**    $ 0.00  
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges    $ 747.49  



Our other Spas unit has a tax portion that is 37c less...


----------



## Quiet Pine

*Still Waiting for SDO...*

Last month I received this message from Starwood. Still waiting for statement & no MF on MyStarCentral. It seems payment must be made 4 weeks from yesterday. They're cutting it a little tight. 

"For information purposes, statements for the 2012 annual fees for the Sheraton Desert Oasis are scheduled to go out on November 28, 2011 with a due date of January 6, 2012. About a week after your statement is assessed, you will be able to see a copy of this document through our website. Please keep in mind, the billing date for your property is subject to change as it still pending approval."


----------



## jarta

You today: "It seems payment must be made 4 weeks from yesterday."

SDO last month: "Please keep in mind, the billing date for your property is subject to change as it still pending approval."

Patience.  But, keep that checkbook handy.   ...   eom


----------



## ada903

Westin Lagunamar two bedroom annual platinum plus
MF $ 1,278.71 (without SVN fee)


----------



## YYJMSP

ada903 said:


> Westin Lagunamar two bedroom annual platinum plus
> MF $ 1,278.71 (without SVN fee)



EOY is $ 639.36

That's exactly half of the annual -- interesting that there doesn't appear to be the extra ~$30 they tack on.


----------



## PamMo

*Harborside Phase I 2BR LO*

Just found the 2012 MF bill (due 1/9/12) in mystarcentral for our annual Harborside Phase I - 2BR LO.

MF:  $2,599.89
Membership Fee - If Applicable: $125
Other*:  $156.29

Total with SVN fee:  $2,881.18

Total without SVN fee: $2,756.18


----------



## IndyJoe

csudell said:


> 2009 - 100.55
> 2010  - 104.91
> 2011 - 107.40
> 2012 Proposed - 202.66


Wow,  fees have doubled, yet not sure much has changed.


----------



## csudell

IndyJoe said:


> Wow,  fees have doubled, yet not sure much has changed.



my thoughts exactly


----------



## HenrySiegel

DeniseM said:


> Please post 2012 Starwood Maintenance fees in this thread
> 
> Maintenance fee bills have started coming you, so I am starting our annual thread.
> 
> *Please post the breakdown of all fees - not just the total.*
> 
> *Please do NOT post discussion of fees here - they will be deleted.*
> 
> THANKS!
> 
> Example:
> 
> Vistana Resort - Lakes
> 
> Dedicated 2 Bdm.
> 
> Operating Assessment - $656.38
> Replacement Reserve - $125.43
> Estimated Real Estate Tax - $141.56
> SVN Fee - $0.00 *
> ARDA Contribution - $0.00 **
> 
> TOTAL - $923.27



Harborside II
3 Bedroom Lockoff

2012 Ownership Assessment        $1858.74
2012 Condo Common Assessment  $ 791.13
2012 Atlantis Facilities Fee            $ 375.30
2012 SVN Membership Fee            $125.00
the grand frick'n ripoff                $3150.17


----------



## csudell

*HRA fees phase 2 final*

1 bedroom premium phase 2


total 1652.60
vacation ownership assessment 929.37
condo common assessment 395.57
atlantis facilities fee 202.66
svn fee 125.

up over $200 from last year


----------



## YYJMSP

ada903 said:


> Westin Lagunamar two bedroom annual platinum plus
> MF $ 1,278.71 (without SVN fee)



Annual 2BR Lockoff - $1101.80 MF + $176.91 Reserve = $1278.71
Annual 1BR Premium - $692.22 MF + $111.15 Reserve = $803.37
Annual 1BR Studio - $409.58 MF + $65.76 Reserve = $475.34

I notice the MF bill that just arrived in the mail says "Phases 1 - 4" on ours.  Is there a different rate for other phases?


----------



## VacationForever

It is starting to get strange that SDO MF is not released yet.


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds

SDO - 2Bedroom Lockoff (floating week 1-52)

$986.08

oops...I don't have the breakdown, just the total from mystarcentral


----------



## VacationForever

Yes, it (SDO) just came in!


----------



## grgs

*Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 bedroom Lockoff*



ThreeLittleBirds said:


> SDO - 2Bedroom Lockoff (floating week 1-52)
> 
> $986.08



Last year's total was $908.41; so about an 8.6% increase.  A bit high, but in the audio file Quiet Pine sent me from the HOA meeting, they said the resort is planning a major renovation in a couple of years.  So they planned to increase the reserves funding to cover that and avoid a special assessment.

Glorian


----------



## grgs

*Sheraton Desert Oasis 1 Bedroom Premium*

$677.93

Up from 611.25 in 2011, so about a 10.9% increase.

Ouch!


----------



## grgs

*Sheraton Desert Oasis 1 Bedroom (Small)*

$575.21

Up from $523.63 in 2011, so about a 10% increase.

Ouch, again!


----------



## kenie

Is there a premium for an eoy 2 bdr?
My fee shows up as $513.04 which is more than a 2 bdr annual...

That's all that shows up though. No additional fees for anything.


----------



## DeniseM

kenie said:


> Is there a premium for an eoy 2 bdr?
> My fee shows up as $513.04 which is more than a 2 bdr annual...
> 
> That's all that shows up though. No additional fees for anything.



They add about $30 to the EOY maintenance fee.


----------



## Quiet Pine

kenie said:


> eoy 2 bdr...$513.04



Broken down:
2012 Operating Assessment $402.20
2012 Replacement Reserve  $110.84
Total $513.04
The ARDA-ROC PAC contribution is an additional $5; I'll subtract it when I pay.


----------



## l2trade

DeniseM said:


> They add about $30 to the EOY maintenance fee.



They add exactly $20 every year to the eoy for administrative costs.  So, $986.08  / 2 = $493.04 + $20 = $513.04...

I left out the highly recommended, yet optional, ARDA contribution.


----------



## jbeachlvr

*WKORN 2012 Maint Fee*

$2,344.56 + 130.21 membership fee = $2479.77 includes the $5.00 for ARDA (every year week) 
live and learn  - this is our 5th year as owners of this resort -- used once, rented twice, and exchanged twice


----------



## holoholo

*2012 Sheraton Desert Oasis*
2 Bd. L/O - $986.08 = $764.39 (oper maint fee) + $221.69 (reserves fee)
1 Bd Dlx - $677.93 = $525.52 (oper maint fee) + $152.41 (reserves fee)
1 Bd Std - $575.21 = $445.89 (oper maint fee) + $129.32 (reserves fee)
Biennial weeks are one-half of those shown above plus a $20 bookkeeping fee


----------



## timbuktu

*Vistana Resort - Falls*

2 bedroom, 2bath , sleeps six.  High Season, fixed week 9

2012 Operating assestment      $744.45
         Replacement reserve         110.55
         Estimated real estate tax     60.57

                                                   total     $915.57

Not including SVN or ARDA


----------



## aslsigner

WKORV - 2bd LO. Annual. Wk 52 (NYE week)

2012 Year Charges
Maintenance Fee(s) 		      $ 2,050.53
Tax - If Applicable 		      $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable     $ 130.21
Other* 		 		      $ 0.00
Interest 		  	              $ 0.00  
Late Fees 		                      $ 0.00
ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.**           $ 5.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 2,185.74


----------



## Ken555

I just paid my annual MFs this morning (after all, why pay early?). Here  are the details, and also some comparisons. I'm sure some of you may  find this of interest.

Of these weeks, it's obvious to me that my "affordable" and "great  trader" of SVR is taking the largest hit this year with a whopping 25%  increase. Of course, it only had a 2% increase last year. Also, I list  my two SVR Falls weeks separately so we can all wonder how/why I have  two different MFs and different taxes. This may be the year I readjust  my timeshare ownership.

WMH and WKV, in my opinion, were good to owners this year with minor increases. 


*Westin Kierland EY*

2012                        
MF: $1241.46
SVN: $125
Taxes: $47.67
Overall % Increase: 5.92%
MF % Increase: 5.47%

2011  
 MF: $1173.50
 SVN: $119
 Taxes: $42.58
 Overall % Increase: -0.83%
 MF % Increase: -0.47%

2010  
 MF: $1179.00
 SVN: $109
 Taxes: $58.30
 Overall % Increase: 7.47%
 MF % Increase: 7.86%

2009  
  MF: $1086.37
  SVN: $109
  Taxes: $63.42
  Overall % Increase: 3.78%
  MF % Increase: 3.85%

2008  
  MF: $1044.58
  SVN: $109
  Taxes: $53.60
  Overall % Increase: 14.39%
  MF % Increase: 8.45%

2007 (I only have partial records for this year)
   MF: $956.30
   SVN: $99
   Taxes: (I believe this is included in the $956.30 above)
   Overall % Increase: 14.39%
   MF % Increase: 8.45%

2006
MF: ~$950 with taxes
SVN: $99


*Westin Mission Hills EOY*

2012
MF: $765.01
SVN: $33 (this is my "2nd" SVN property)
Tax: sent separately by Riverside County
MF % Increase: 0.14%

2011
MF: $763.92
SVN: $33
MF % Increase: -1.5%

2010
MF: $775.38
SVN: $33
MF % Increase: 13.68%

2009
MF: $669.28
SVN: $33
MF % Increase: 2.98%

2008
MF: $649.36
SVN: $33
MF % Increase: 10.61%

2007
MF: $580.48
SVN: $33
MF % Increase: 5.25%

2006
MF: ~$550


*Sheraton Vistana Resort, Falls, Week 49*

2012
MF: $855.00
SVN: n/a
Tax: $59.82
MF % Increase: *25.19% *

2011
MF: $661.14
SVN: n/a
Tax: $64.62
MF % Increase: 2.11%

2010
MF: $715.66
Tax: $54


*Sheraton Vistana Resort, Falls, Week 20

* 2012
 MF: $855.00
 SVN: n/a
 Tax: $60.71
 MF % Increase: *25.22% *

 2011
 MF: $661.14
 SVN: n/a
 Tax: $70.13
 MF % Increase: 2.06%

 2010
 MF: $661.86
 Tax: $54.82


----------



## YYJMSP

Ken555 said:


> Also, I list  my two SVR Falls weeks separately so we can all wonder how/why I have  two different MFs and different taxes.



We have the same thing happening with our two SVR Spas weeks...


----------



## rickandcindy23

DeniseM said:


> They add about $30 to the EOY maintenance fee.


Which is a ripoff.


----------



## SummerSolstice

*2012*

Sheraton Vistana Villages - Amelia Phase
1bdr Premium (51,700 options)

2012 Operating Assessment $607.38
2012 Replacement Reserve  $129.42
2012 Est. Real Estate Tax    $75.82

Total $812.62

additional below:
2012 SVN Membership Fee   $125.00
2012 ARDA-ROC PAC           $5.00


----------



## jeff01

*Vistana Villages - Key West - Annual - Dedicated 2 Bedroom	*
Prior Year(s) Tax Credit - ($30.69)
2012 Operating Assessment - $813.99 
2012 Replacement Reserve - $164.12 
2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax - $110.96 
TOTAL - $1,058.38 

*Broadway Plantation - Palmetto - EOY  - Dedicated 2 Bedroom* 
2012 Operating Assessment - $318.90 
2012 Replacement Reserve - $70.35 
TOTAL - $389.25 

*Westin Kierland Villas - EOY - 2 Bedroom L/O	*
Prior Year(s) Tax Credit - ($3.32)
2012 Operating Assessment - $558.33 
2012 Replacement Reserve - $82.40 
2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax - $23.84 
TOTAL - $661.25


----------



## LynnMarie828

*Maintenance fees*

We just purchased a time share with the Weston.  The fee is $1300 and year.  It seemed a  little steep to us but the quality was good.


----------



## DeniseM

Hi and welcome to TUG - this thread is for posting the specifics of your MF - see first post for details.


----------



## bullroc3

*Vistana Villages St. Augustine*

Just arrived!! This is for an EOY 2 bedroom unit.

2012 Vacation Ownership Assessment - $326.81
2012 Condo Common Assessment       - $ 59.46
2012 Estimated real Estate Tax          - $ 58.35
Total                                             - $444.62


----------



## BluEyezNSC

*Sheraton Steamboat Resort EOY 2 BR
*
Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 626.20 
Tax - If Applicable    $ 32.34  
Membership Fee - If Applicable    $ 125.00  

Current Year Charges    $ 783.54


----------



## momeason

Are property taxes included in MFs?


----------



## grgs

momeason said:


> Are property taxes included in MFs?



It depends on the location of the resort.  I believe for most states, property taxes are included (I know they are for Arizona & Florida).  For California properties, taxes are sent our separately.

Glorian


----------



## YYJMSP

grgs said:


> It depends on the location of the resort.  I believe for most states, property taxes are included (I know they are for Arizona & Florida).  For California properties, taxes are sent our separately.
> 
> Glorian



Our WDW units MF bills had the property tax on them...


----------



## bankr63

Forgot to post these way back in December, thought they would come in handy now:
Sheraton Vistana Resort, Courts 2BR Townhome (upper):

Maintenance Fee(s)    $ 923.22  
Tax                          $  48.31  
Total                        $ 971.53

No ARDA/ROC for Canadians (that's illegal) so that is all we pay!  At this rate of increase, we'll be breaking through the $1000 barrier next year...


----------



## grgs

YYJMSP said:


> Our WDW units MF bills had the property tax on them...



Ok, I always understood Riverside (and other Calif. counties) billed each owner individually.  So either it changed with WDW, or I'm mistaken.  Can any one report on WMH or one of the Palm Desert Marriotts?

Glorian


----------



## Ken555

grgs said:


> Ok, I always understood Riverside (and other Calif. counties) billed each owner individually.  So either it changed with WDW, or I'm mistaken.  Can any one report on WMH or one of the Palm Desert Marriotts?
> 
> Glorian



I pay WMH taxes to the county separate from my MF.


----------



## YYJMSP

grgs said:


> Ok, I always understood Riverside (and other Calif. counties) billed each owner individually.  So either it changed with WDW, or I'm mistaken.  Can any one report on WMH or one of the Palm Desert Marriotts?
> 
> Glorian



Our MF bills for SVR (Cascades, Spas) and WDW all had separate line items on them for "2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax".

I believe that they have to be explicitly stated, and just can't be lumped in to the MF components.  Do you actually receive a separate bill from the tax authority?  Perhaps us foreigners are treated differently, and SVO bills us on the tax authority's behalf?

Our MF bills for our other locations didn't have the separated line item -- it's included as a MF component ("Ad Valorem Tax" and/or "Property Tax").

On MSC, it says:



> The maintenance fee billing may also include real estate taxes collected by the Managing Agent on behalf of the local governing authority responsible for real estate tax collection if they are not billed separately. They are collected in advance of the time they are due.


----------



## grgs

YYJMSP said:


> Our MF bills for SVR (Cascades, Spas) and WDW all had separate line items on them for "2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax".
> 
> Do you actually receive a separate bill from the tax authority?  Perhaps us foreigners are treated differently, and SVO bills us on the tax authority's behalf?



I only own Arizona resorts, so I don't have first hand experience with taxes and Calif. timeshares.  The taxes for the Arizona units are paid with the mf and listed as a separate line item similar to your units.

I based my comments on previous TUG postings that said Calif. bills property taxes to individual owners.  Ken's reply supports this.

It may be that as a Canadian owner, the HOA has to collect the taxes from you and then pay the county.  Or, things changed with WDW.  

Glorian


----------



## jarta

YYJMSP was talking about a line item in a budget sent out by Starwood.  The MF is a separate line in Starwood's budget which is billed as part of the MF on an estimated basis and later billed to and paid paid by the association to the county on behalf of the owners.

Ken was talking about a tax bill from the county - not an MF bill from Starwood.  In CA the MF does not cover taxes.  The separate tax bill covers taxes.   Salty


----------



## YYJMSP

jarta said:


> YYJMSP was talking about a line item in a budget sent out by Starwood.  The MF is a separate line in Starwood's budget which is billed as part of the MF on an estimated basis and later billed to and paid paid by the association to the county on behalf of the owners.
> 
> Ken was talking about a tax bill from the county - not an MF bill from Starwood.  In CA the MF does not cover taxes.  The separate tax bill covers taxes.   Salty



Thanks for trying to interpret what I said, but no, that's not it...

My WDW invoices have 4 items on the front page:

2012 Operating Assessment
2012 Replacement Reserve
2012 Estimated Real Estate Tax
2012 SVN Membership Fee Add'l Week

On the back page, it shows the MF budget detailed breakdown for the total amounts corresponding to the Operating Assessment and Replacement Reserve amounts from the front page.  There is no matching amount corresponding to the Estimated Real Estate Tax amount from the front page.

In the MF budget detailed breakdown, for the line items that correspond to taxes, there is $0.95 amount (per 2BR L/O annual unit week) and a footnote stating that that amount is for "Real Estate Taxes on the Maintenance Weeks, Fitness Center, Engineering/Houskeeping Area, Parking Garage & Lobby", and that the "Taxes on each Vacation Ownership interest will be billed separately in accordance with the applicable California statutes".  I read that to say that they can't bundle the real estate taxes in with the MF amount, and have to show it separately, which they do on the front page.

My SVR invoices show the same 4 items, and the same corresponding MF budget detailed breakdown on the back page.  These properties show a $0.00 amount for the line items that correspond to taxes, and a footnote stating that the "Real estate taxes on each unit will be billed separately in accordance with the applicable Florida Statues".  As with WDW, I read that to say that they can't bundle the real estate taxes in with the MF amount, and have to show it separately, which they do on the front page.

The invoices for the other non-Florida and non-California units do not have a line item for the "Estimated Real Estate Tax" on the front page.  Instead, they have amounts buried in the MF budget detailed breakdown, so the taxes are part of the MF.

Are you suggesting that I am going to receive another bill directly from the county that is in addition to the amount already paid as the "Estimated Real Estate Tax"?


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## jarta

YYJMSP,   ...   From past posting, I think you bought your WDW unit in 2011 (i.e. after 1/1/11) from Starwood (high price).

WDW and WMH are both in Riverside County CA.  I purchased a WMH at a low resale price after 1/1/11.  My WMH MF contains no "Tax, if Applicable" charge.  I received a tax bill from the Riverside County Treasurer.

You indicate you have not received a tax bill and that your MF bill includes an amount for "Tax, if Applicable." 

When a property is sold/resold after 1/1/11, it triggers a reassessment and, if the assessment is changed, a supplemental tax bill or credit (check) is sent to the new owner.  I received a credit/check based upon my low resale price.

See link:  http://www.countytreasurer.org/supplement.aspx

I have no idea what your first use year is (it may matter; mine was 2012 and I assume your is, too) and whether or not what Starwood included in your (seemingly alone) WDW MF for 2012 was an addition for an estimated 2011 supplemental tax bill, an estimated 2012 tax bill that will be sent to the property (because bills will not be mailed to an international destination - "if applicable") or whether it is just a mistake.

But, the usual procedure is for the owner to receive the yearly tax bill and the tax bill is not included in the MF of a CA timeshare owner.

Why don't you call Starwood Association Services (From the U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico: 1-800-729-8246) or WDW to find out what the line item was on your 2012 MF bill?

BTW, this thread was supposed to be for posting of amounts of 2012 MFs and not for general discussions of how MFs are assessed or collected.  But, it has morphed into something else - and you asked.   Salty


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## YYJMSP

*Property taxes*

Paraphrased from an SVO response:

Westin Desert Willow owners are billed by the HOA.  Riverside County agreed to bill the HOA for the property taxes when they built WDW.  The taxes show up a separate line item on the annual invoice.

Westin Mission Hills owners are billed directly by Riverside County.


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## grgs

Thanks for the follow up!  

Glorian


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## Ken555

Does SVN charge their normal 10% surcharge for the property taxes to handle the transaction? Or are they providing this as a service and not earning anything for it?


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## Ken555

I wanted to review all the MFs for this year and created a doc to help me review all that has been posted here. I suspect some of you might be interested in this type of general overview, as well. It's not complete by any means...in particular, it needs:
confirmation that certain unit sizes were/were not sold in that configuration
separation of MF from taxes (many are correct, some are not)
clarification where certain units are sold in a configuration not specifically available via SOs (WSJ, etc)
more details! this is missing many for PGA, Steamboat, HRA, Riverfront
As I have time I'll update this with previous years MF so we can more easily keep track of historical trends, etc. 

http://sdrv.ms/LnczOI


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## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> I wanted to review all the MFs for this year and created a doc to help me review all that has been posted here. I suspect some of you might be interested in this type of general overview, as well. It's not complete by any means...in particular, it needs:
> confirmation that certain unit sizes were/were not sold in that configuration
> separation of MF from taxes (many are correct, some are not)
> clarification where certain units are sold in a configuration not specifically available via SOs (WSJ, etc)
> more details! this is missing many for PGA, Steamboat, HRA, Riverfront
> As I have time I'll update this with previous years MF so we can more easily keep track of historical trends, etc.
> 
> http://sdrv.ms/LnczOI



Ken - Excellent and useful information.

There is a tax listed for one of the WKORV villas ($130.21), but taxes for WKORV/N are an Ad Valorem {sp?} tax that is included in the MFs, and not a separate property tax.

The property tax for a 2Bd TH WSJ-VG is ~$130 (it actually varies somewhat depending on the arbituary assessment) - but that is the approx amount we paid.  The WSJ-VG property tax is based on 1999 assessment and rate - and will soon change dramatically upwards.

There is no 1Bd or studio sold separately at WPORV - like WKORVN - they are all 2Bd LOs.


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## K2Quick

holoholo said:


> *2012 Sheraton Desert Oasis*
> 2 Bd. L/O - $986.08 = $764.39 (oper maint fee) + $221.69 (reserves fee)
> 1 Bd Dlx - $677.93 = $525.52 (oper maint fee) + $152.41 (reserves fee)
> 1 Bd Std - $575.21 = $445.89 (oper maint fee) + $129.32 (reserves fee)
> Biennial weeks are one-half of those shown above plus a $20 bookkeeping fee



Denise, any chance you can edit your post #2 in this thread to include this with the summary data?  (just because I'm lazy and don't want to scroll through four pages to get to it)


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## l2trade

YYJMSP said:


> Paraphrased from an SVO response:
> 
> Westin Desert Willow owners are billed by the HOA.  Riverside County agreed to bill the HOA for the property taxes when they built WDW.  The taxes show up a separate line item on the annual invoice.
> 
> Westin Mission Hills owners are billed directly by Riverside County.



Are WDW owners billed different hoa amounts based on their individual prop 13 purchase price, which could vary substantially over time and between resale vs retail?  If not, is this agreement legal under CA property tax laws?

I don't know the answers to these questions.  I am not a lawyer.  I am just quite surprised that a CA county is billing the hoa for property taxes on property owned by owners, which under ca prop 13 law could vary substantially for otherwise identical units purchased at different times.


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## YYJMSP

l2trade said:


> Are WDW owners billed different hoa amounts based on their individual prop 13 purchase price, which could vary substantially over time and between resale vs retail?  If not, is this agreement legal under CA property tax laws?
> 
> I don't know the answers to these questions.  I am not a lawyer.  I am just quite surprised that a CA county is billing the hoa for property taxes on property owned by owners, which under ca prop 13 law could vary substantially for otherwise identical units purchased at different times.



I assume "prop 13" refers to some California statute?

I'm afraid that I have no idea about how that applies, I'm Canadian...


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## Ken555

YYJMSP said:


> I assume "prop 13" refers to some California statute?
> 
> I'm afraid that I have no idea about how that applies, I'm Canadian...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)


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