# Las Vegas was in a sad state.



## lobsterlover (Nov 20, 2011)

Trip report.
Although I did not stay in a timeshare I just want to vent about the sad state Las Vegas is in.
I'm still ill over what I saw. We walked half the strip and the vision of the crack head with a new born in her arms, begging, will not leave my mind. Nor will the dude eating condiments out of the little packages or the other hundred people begging everywhere. I understand the US economy is in a sad state but is there at least no one to protect the children? 
I know its part of life and not everything can be rosey but next time I go to Vegas I will stay at the Wynn again (which was amazing!) and probably will not venture much further than Treasure Island and the Venitian. You don't really need to go anywhere when staying at the Wynn, it has everything. 
Vegas is just not that appealing anymore.


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

I have a friend who lives in North Las Vegas.  He reduced his stock portfolio about a year ago and bought two rental properties, a house and a condo.  The house originally sold for $375K, he paid $135K.  The condo originally sold for $235K, he paid $65K.  Enough said!

George


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## jackio (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> I have a friend who lives in North Las Vegas.  He reduced his stock portfolio about a year ago and bought two rental properties, a house and a condo.  The house originally sold for $375K, he paid $135K.  The condo originally sold for $235K, he paid $65K.  Enough said!
> 
> George



Was he able to find renters to cover his costs?  I heard the rental market is not good there either.

We, too, encountered several panhandlers when I went with DD in August for a couple of days.  We stayed at Luxor and they were all over the footbridge connecting NYNY/MGM/Excalibur day and night.


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

jackio said:


> Was he able to find renters to cover his costs?  I heard the rental market is not good there either.



Yes, he easily found renters.  In the case of the house it was the family who defaulted on the loan; gave it back to the Bank; and continued to live in it until the house was sold.

George


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## prickler (Nov 20, 2011)

Every large tourist attracting city I have ever been too has had an openly abundant homeless and transient population regardless of the state of the economy.


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## amycurl (Nov 20, 2011)

Apparently, you've never been to Sydney, where I encountered no homeless or panhandlers. My friend who lives there, on seeing the number of homeless on the streets of Chicago during a visit to the States, was shocked and appalled that this was happening in a "first world" nation.


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## lobsterlover (Nov 20, 2011)

Just sayin the last time I was in Vegas I saw one person begging (3 years ago) so I'm assuming it is due to Vegas being one of the hardest hit places.
It's the baby that put me over the edge.


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## dwojo (Nov 20, 2011)

Homeless people are better hidden in Sydney is all.


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## siesta (Nov 20, 2011)

Some recent figures I pulled from census information:

Approx.
United States Homeless rate = .21%

Nevada Homeless rate = .55%

Australia Homeless rate = .40%

Most of Nevada's homeless are located in Las Vegas, for obvious reasons.


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## jasavak (Nov 20, 2011)

*Homeless*

San Fransisco has 0.75 % because of the great weather .  However , I doubt if the people begging are homeless .   I was homeless for about a year and my brother was homeless until a few years ago.

         Most of the homeless are there by choice. Many enjoy spending thousands of dollars each month on their favorite activities .  Alcohol , marijuana and amphetamines (in that order) .  They maximize these activities by not spending any money on housing and utilities .

   They collect food and money through disability , food stamps , welfare , pan handling , scrapping , hustling and theft.   Also from charities and donations from family members .


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## ricoba (Nov 21, 2011)

Back to the original topic... 

We are "bullish" on Vegas.  Yes, it's been hit hard, really hard.  But if there is one thing about Vegas, it's that it has an uncanny ability to reinvent itself, (Just remember "family friendly Vegas" of a few years back?)

While I think it will remain depressed and hurting for a long while yet, signs of recovery are slowly showing, almost like a little crocus popping it's head out, soon after the snows.   The recent numbers (travelers, gaming win etc) are up, people are beginning to return and spend more.  Recent closures like the boarded up Sahara are starting to stir again with a possible renovation and not a tear down/build over.

One thing that I think many people forget is the "California" effect on Vegas.  By and far the greatest number of tourists to Vegas come from primarily Southern California.  There are about 20 million of us here in SoCal and we play a big part in helping Vegas recover.Again, CA is still struggling, but our unemployment rate is inching downward and there will be more travel this year than last out of LAX and other CA spots.  Much of that travel goes to Vegas, to play and party.  

Challenges remain for Vegas of course.  High unemployment, a primarily "one business" economy, a serious drop in the housing market and other places to gamble besides Vegas  etc...  But again, in time the place will recover.  Maybe it won't be the boom times of the 1990's and early 2000's,(which is probably really good), but it will recover. So, Vegas is once again being given the opportunity to re-invent Vegas, something that it has successfully done over the years way back to the days when it was just a small watering hold out in the middle of the desert. I guess all I can say is "Viva Las Vegas"!!!


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## daventrina (Nov 21, 2011)

Didn't seem that bad in April... Has it changed that much???


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## Dori (Nov 21, 2011)

We have noticed an increase in the number of panhandlers in LV over the past few years. Each visit, we see more and more homeless people. It's sad to see.

Dori


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## DeniseM (Nov 21, 2011)

I have deleted a post - please keep this discussion civil or it will be shut down.


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## rhonda (Nov 21, 2011)

ricoba said:


> One thing that I think many people forget is the "California" effect on Vegas.  By and far the greatest number of tourists to Vegas come from primarily Southern California.  There are about 20 million of us here in SoCal and we play a big part in helping Vegas recover.Again, CA is still struggling, but our unemployment rate is inching downward and there will be more travel this year than last out of LAX and other CA spots.  Much of that travel goes to Vegas, to play and party.


I'm thinking Indian Gaming, widely available in SoCal, is taking a bite into LV revenue?


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## siesta (Nov 21, 2011)

rhonda said:


> I'm thinking Indian Gaming, widely available in SoCal, is taking a bite into LV revenue?


 doubt it, no free drinks for players.


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## Fern Modena (Nov 21, 2011)

A big part of this is because of the economy.  Las Vegas never had the number of unemployed that it does now.  When the economy went south, there was an influx of people who came to Las Vegas searching for non-existent jobs.  They somehow didn't follow the news and thought that we still had them.  Turns out we didn't, and they ended up as bad or worse than they had been, many of them homeless and on the streets.  That added to our problems in the city core.  

Other cities have similar problems.  When I worked in San Francisco, there was always such a problem near the cable car turntables and also along Market Street.  I think it is worse where there are many tourists, because the beggars think they will be easy marks.  

Fern



Dori said:


> We have noticed an increase in the number of panhandlers in LV over the past few years. Each visit, we see more and more homeless people. It's sad to see.
> 
> Dori


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## Fern Modena (Nov 21, 2011)

I don't live in Las Vegas, although I do live in the Vegas metro area (Clark County), which has more than 85% of the state's population.  I live about ten miles from the south end of The Strip.

Things have improved greatly in my neck of the woods in the last year or so.  Where many houses in my area were up for sale or foreclosed, that is not so now.  In my village I can think of perhaps three out of 200 houses that are for sale.  The realtor who keeps track of for sales in our community of 7000+ shows about 125 houses for sale now, where previously there were as many as twice that.  Prices are lower than they were, but not rock bottom.

At the top, my house was worth perhaps $450K. and recently it appraised for $312K.  It is 2400 sq. ft. (including a casita), 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, den, great room and kitchen (why, I don't know, but it came with it).  I don't feel bad about the "loss" cause it was on paper.  We didn't sell so it didn't matter.  We paid $330K, so our loss wasn't much.

While it is true that some businesses closed around here in the past couple of years, things are looking up.  We have new restaurants and stores, some of them major companies, such as Niketown, Staples, Petco, and Target all opening up in the past year.

We have two new Farmers Markets on different days.  In a nearby strip mall one of the restaurants has Food Truck Saturdays, where they sponsor four or five different food trucks in front of the restaurant for three hours.  It is a great revitalizer for the area, bringing in many people.  The restaurant is a bakery/restaurant, and doesn't compete directly with the trucks, but rather complements them.  I went with friends last week, and both the restaurant and the trucks were very busy.

So I say all this to say what?  Just that you shouldn't paint a whole area with the brush of what you saw.  It is a long, hard journey,  but things are looking up.

Fern


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## Passepartout (Nov 21, 2011)

*Glass half-full/Glass half-empty*

It all depends on how one wants to see it. If you haven't been to an area since boom-times, it looks pretty gloomy now. On the other hand, if the last time you visited Vegas was Spring/Summer of '10, you can see definite signs of life. It isn't happening as fast as we'd like anywhere in the country, but things are improving.

We all wish the homeless had places to be that was out of sight of the tourists, but the reality is, the Strip has the best panhandling and handouts. Next time you are in Mexico, spend some time near the Cathedral Square in whatever city you visit. You will see lots of mothers training their offspring in the fine art of begging. This is not a local phenomenon.

I will continue to see the glass as half-full.

Generous ongoing contribution to organizations like Salvation Army and local soup kitchens will help a larger number of homeless than individual contribution on the street.

Jim


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## JeffW (Nov 21, 2011)

Fern Modena said:


> ... They somehow didn't follow the news and thought that we still had them...



At least there's still the appearance of Vegas being a desireable place to come.   I'm sure there are just as many homeless (%-wise) in cities like Philadelphia, Cleveland, or Detroit.  The difference though - they are probably all native.  Unlikely that there are a lot of people leaving say Memphis for Detroit, thinking things are going to be better there.  

For those that aren't homeless, do we like seeing this?  Probably not.  But if YOU were homeless, would you rather be in in Cleveland on the the Vegas Strip?  It's certainly a lot nicer place to be, with a lot more people walking by with disposable income.  It's ironic that for those that might be trying to get away from scenes like this by going to all inclusive resorts (thinking Mexico and Carribbean ones specificically), you often need to pass through worse than this to get to them.  

I've been going to Vegas every year for the past decade.  It's stil a great place (and as Fern and others have commented, 'rebounding').  But it was never a perfect city.  It's a great place to get away to, and when it was good, it was really booming.  But when that cycle ends, no surprise it's not going to look as glamorous.

Jeff


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## Ron98GT (Nov 21, 2011)

The town just hasn't been the same without Oscar Goodman as mayor


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## Fern Modena (Nov 21, 2011)

Oscar was never mayor of "The Strip," contrary to popular opinion.  He was the mayor of the City of Las Vegas.  "The Strip" is in the Town of Paradise, in Clark County, governed only by the County Commission.

Fern



Ron98GT said:


> The town just hasn't been the same without Oscar Goodman as mayor


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## JudyS (Nov 21, 2011)

jasavak said:


> ...
> Most of the homeless are there by choice. Many enjoy spending thousands of dollars each month on their favorite activities .  Alcohol , marijuana and amphetamines (in that order) .  They maximize these activities by not spending any money on housing and utilities ....


I'm not sure how someone could spend thousands of dollars a month out on the street getting drunk. A gallon of rum is maybe $30, so $2000 a month would be more than 2 gallons of rum per day. Beer costs what, about $1 per can when bought by the case? So, $2000 a month would be about 67 cans per day. I'm not sure how anyone's liver could stand that--or their bladder, either.


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## tompalm (Nov 22, 2011)

Concur with the glass being half full and a lot of people from up north that are not employed moving to Vegas, at least for better weather if nothing else.  We bought a house there 18 months ago and a big reason so many foreclosures are that people with good jobs are just walking away from being upside down on a mortgage.  

My property manager says the follow:
Also as a matter of information the days of getting any renter with excellent credit is virtually impossible the current rental pool of applicants are primarily former owners forced back into the rental market or tenants who have poor to fair credit and either can't qualify to buy or don't have the monies for the down payment.

But, so far the rent has been paid month after month and the house is quickly paying for itself.  Especially with these low mortgage rates.  As the baby boom generation starts to retire and look for inexpensive places to live, Vegas will become more popular.  The construction industry might not ever return to what it use to be, and the economy might be less than average, but I think the housing market will pick up in a few years when all the foreclosures stop.


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## Ron98GT (Nov 22, 2011)

Fern Modena said:


> Oscar was never mayor of "The Strip," contrary to popular opinion.  He was the mayor of the City of Las Vegas.  "The Strip" is in the Town of Paradise, in Clark County, governed only by the County Commission.
> 
> Fern



I didn't say the South strip isn't the same, I said the "TOWN".  Oscar was everywhere: every nite on TV and at every event.  He loved Las Vegas as much as he loved his gin.

The County Manager used to be Virginia Valentine, who used to be the City Manager of Las Vegas with Oscar Goodman (Mayor).  You don't think that our beloved (85% approval rating) ex-mayor and ex-mob-Lawyer had a little pull on the strip.  If not, your kidding yourself.

I'ved lived in Las Vegas for 40 years and know the boundry lines between the City and Clark County.

So, although Oscar's wife is now the Mayor - it's not the same.

But the mob museum is now open   Check it out.


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## JeffW (Dec 8, 2011)

The problem (maybe more cause) of low prices on foreclosed homes is that there aren't typically the jobs available to support living there.  If you want to retire, it can be great.  You get a nice house at a great prices, and to a degree, the job market doesn't affect you at all. 

If you can find a job there, that might have some stability, you can probably make a good go at it.  But if you're in say construction, I'm not sure I'd want to try it there.  

Jeff


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