# Silence from MVCI?



## cbdmvci (Jul 13, 2010)

I know it's early but,

considering the explosion of pained comments on TUG, on II's blogs, and on Bill Marriott's blog,

I am a bit surprised that there is no reaction anywhere from any Marriott or MVCI senior management or sales management, not on my-vacationclub.com, not here on TUG, not anywhere.

Similarly, I am a bit surprised that google news can find no press coverage of the immediate harsh reaction of legacy MVCI owners: not in the general press; not in the general travel blogs and websites, not anywhere.

Are we just a few hundred vociferous consumers with particularly analytic minds in a universe of several hundred thousand MVCI owners and millions and millions of non-owners who couldn't care less?

Are we all just immaterial?


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2010)

There have been media articles.

Very early on, DaveM posted info. provided by Marriott, asking owners with questions to contact them, and providing contact info.

I would be VERY surprised if any of the big TS systems posted directly on TUG.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 13, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> There have been media articles.
> 
> Very early on DaveM posted info. provided by Marriott asking owners with questions to contact them, and providing contact info.
> 
> I would be VERY surprised if any of the big TS systems posted directly on TUG.



Yeah, but they all read it.


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## m61376 (Jul 13, 2010)

Yeah- but they are also aware that only about 150 disgruntled nuts have been posting.  However, they are also aware that there are perhaps thousands of silent on-lookers.


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## LisaRex (Jul 13, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Yeah- but they are also aware that only about 150 disgruntled nuts have been posting.  However, they are also aware that there are perhaps thousands of silent on-lookers.



I work for a fortune 25 company that makes consumer products, such as diapers and shampoo.  If we got 150 letters from disgruntled companies about a certain product, heads would roll.  Seriously.  They had some marketing logarithm that calculated how many consumers one letter represented.  It was pretty high.  (For example, one angry letter writer represents 1000 angry consumers who won't bother to write; they'll just leave.)

When we had a problem with one of our bonus programs (similar to Coke Rewards except better prizes), we got a few hundred letters of complaint.  VPs canceled vacations.  Managers were fired.  I keep telling people that if you are unhappy and you don't complain, then you are doing yourself a great disservice.  Companies actually LIKE to have consumer feedback because it's far better than just getting disgusted and leaving. 

Of course, we didn't have consumers contractually obligated to remain with us after they lost their faith in us, but that's for another thread.


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## Cobra1950 (Jul 13, 2010)

Ah yes, the "silent majority"
We are in Sheraton at Myrtle Beach for dog and pony this weekend and a few free days, must have gotten my name from ex Marriott person, it will be interesting to hear their deal. 
From the EBay sales I have seen there is an even bigger discount on resales of these compared to Marriott


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2010)

Cobra1950 said:


> Ah yes, the "silent majority"
> We are in Sheraton at Myrtle Beach for dog and pony this weekend and a few free days, must have gotten my name from ex Marriott person, it will be interesting to hear their deal.
> From the EBay sales I have seen there is an even bigger discount on resales of these compared to Marriott



Starwood does not allow resale buyers at Sheraton Broadway Plantation (and most other resorts) to belong to the Starwood Vacation Network, and that really hurts the resale price.  In other words - resale buyers don't get Staroptions or Starpoints and can't trade for other Starwood resorts.  In addition, they are killing us with escalating maintenance fees.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 13, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> Are we all just immaterial?



Just about. Imagine the comments if a news agency were to write an article about the disservice Marriott is doing their owners. You would not see very favorable comments on that article. Mostly people berating us for buying scam timeshares in the first place.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 13, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> I work for a fortune 25 company that makes consumer products, such as diapers and shampoo.  .




Why didn't you just say you work for (company removed for privacy)  When you narrowed it down to Fortune 25 and gave two of their largest segments, we can figure it out.


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## camachinist (Jul 13, 2010)

I really don't care whether Marriott listens or not. They haven't listened in the past so why think things are going to change now. Empowered employees are a thing of the past. Change is inevitable and acceptance is the clear path. IMO, the purpose of TUG has always been to share knowledge and experience and help other *customers* of Marriott (and other timeshare companies) to be more knowledgeable about the product and service they're purchasing. If our data and conclusions are faulty, we own that. Marriott owns their part of the equation too, as anecdotes of 'bad' information from Marriott employees have filled these forums. I don't see it as 'bad'; I see it as 'good', good information about the product and service they're soliciting us to buy. 

Expect the 'silence' to continue. Silence can be a good thing too


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## JimIg23 (Jul 13, 2010)

camachinist said:


> I really don't care whether Marriott listens or not. They haven't listened in the past so why think things are going to change now. Empowered employees are a thing of the past. Change is inevitable and acceptance is the clear path. IMO, the purpose of TUG has always been to share knowledge and experience and help other *customers* of Marriott (and other timeshare companies) to be more knowledgeable about the product and service they're purchasing.



I agree with this.  I am looking forward to Tuggers working through the points and weeks (both thru corporate accounts and regular II accounts) to share best practices.  Doubt Marriott may change, but one never knows, maybe next year they will give exchange members more points for their weeks......


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## Beverley (Jul 13, 2010)

JimIg23 said:


> I agree with this.  I am looking forward to Tuggers working through the points and weeks (both thru corporate accounts and regular II accounts) to share best practices.  Doubt Marriott may change, but one never knows, maybe next year they will give exchange members more points for their weeks......



I am with you too.  

I am looking for the grumbling to stop and the creative minds to re-emerge.  I am perfectly content if Marriott does not post on our board.  JW has a blog and MVCI has a "contact us" for anyone who wants to send a letter.

Beverley


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## ldanna (Jul 13, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Starwood does not allow resale buyers at Sheraton Broadway Plantation (and most other resorts) to belong to the Starwood Vacation Network, and that really hurts the resale price.



I don't own at any Sheraton/Starwood property but this is ridiculous. I can see many units at STW with my Grande Vista Studios (ok, many of them are Oct/Nov and Dec, but they include Christmas week), in fact I can even see 2bd units. And resales owners can't trade on the other properties? That's horrible. Apreference of developer owners could justify, but no exchanges at all is insane.


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## hotcoffee (Jul 13, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> . . . Of course, we didn't have consumers contractually obligated to remain with us after they lost their faith in us, but that's for another thread.



Of course, you could always sell (LOL).  Timeshares are a little different than conventional retail.


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2010)

ldanna said:


> I don't own at any Sheraton/Starwood property but this is ridiculous. I can see many units at STW with my Grande Vista Studios (ok, many of them are Oct/Nov and Dec, but they include Christmas week), in fact I can even see 2bd units. And resales owners can't trade on the other properties? That's horrible. Apreference of developer owners could justify, but no exchanges at all is insane.



Clarification:  Starwood has their own internal trading system (Starwood Vacation Network) and that's what I was referring to, not II trades.


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## washjeff68 (Jul 13, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> I work for a fortune 25 company that makes consumer products, such as diapers and shampoo.
> 
> Hi Lisa,
> 
> ...


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## mas (Jul 13, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> ...I am a bit surprised that there is no reaction anywhere from any Marriott or MVCI senior management or sales management, not on my-vacationclub.com, not here on TUG, not anywhere...



There are a couple of threads regarding MVCI and the points system over on flyertalk in the Marriott Hotel section.  The first thread includes an official response from the Marriott Concierge.  There is also a second thread for those of you who are interested in more reading.


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## MikeZ (Jul 13, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> I know it's early but,
> 
> considering the explosion of pained comments on TUG, on II's blogs, and on Bill Marriott's blog,
> 
> ...



I don't think it is surprising at all.  This program has taken a couple years for Marriott to refine and they surely anticipated major resistance from a percentage of owners.  There are two ways for a company to deal with the resistance-either address it upfront or wait, do nothing  and hope it dies down.  I am also sure they are looking at TUG and other forums and gauging whether or not a response is needed.

If the level of concern slows on TUG, on other forums, on blogs and doesn't hit mainstream news-well, they are clear to move forward without any response.  

For now, they are banking on dissatisfied owners getting tired of complaining, whether or not they ever sign on.


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## DanCali (Jul 13, 2010)

MikeZ said:


> There are two ways for a company to deal with the resistance-either address it upfront or wait, do nothing  and hope it dies down.  I am also sure they are looking at TUG and other forums and gauging whether or not a response is needed.



They should look at Toyota and now study what Apple will be doing with the iPhone4 fiasco...

Apple has so far diverted attention to everything else but themselves - now that is backfiring and turning into a PR nightmare. Watch closely, Marriott...


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## dioxide45 (Jul 13, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> I work for a fortune 25 company that makes consumer products, such as diapers and shampoo.  If we got 150 letters from disgruntled companies about a certain product, heads would roll.  Seriously.  They had some marketing logarithm that calculated how many consumers one letter represented.  It was pretty high.  (For example, one angry letter writer represents 1000 angry consumers who won't bother to write; they'll just leave.)



Unfortunately/fortunately companies take letters far more seriously. There are far more people willing to complain on a blog, or on a forum. Fewer will write an e-mail to the company, but only a small percentage will actually take the time to write a letter put it in an envelope with a stamp and mail it.

I don't know how many people that are dissatisfied have actually taken the time to write letters, but letter show a true dissatisfaction with a company and it's product. Until people write letters, nothing will change. I think that it will take more than a few Internet forum grips to change Marriott's mind. In the grand scheme of things we are just but a blip.


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## MikeZ (Jul 13, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Unfortunately/fortunately companies take letters far more seriously. There are far more people willing to complain on a blog, or on a forum. Fewer will write an e-mail to the company, but only a small percentage will actually take the time to write a letter put it in an envelope with a stamp and mail it.
> 
> I don't know how many people that are dissatisfied have actually taken the time to write letters, but letter show a true dissatisfaction with a company and it's product. Until people write letters, nothing will change. I think that it will take more than a few Internet forum grips to change Marriott's mind. In the grand scheme of things we are just but a blip.



What a great point! I think I know what my next step is!


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## dioxide45 (Jul 13, 2010)

MikeZ said:


> What a great point! I think I know what my next step is!



I am by no means advocating one way or another (for or against points). Just wanted to point out what companies really take seriously.

There was a thread that was created early on after June 20th that was discussing open letters to Marriott.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 13, 2010)

MikeZ said:


> I don't think it is surprising at all.  This program has taken a couple years for Marriott to refine and they surely anticipated major resistance from a percentage of owners.  There are two ways for a company to deal with the resistance-either address it upfront or wait, do nothing  and hope it dies down.  I am also sure they are looking at TUG and other forums and gauging whether or not a response is needed.
> 
> If the level of concern slows on TUG, on other forums, on blogs and doesn't hit mainstream news-well, they are clear to move forward without any response.
> 
> For now, they are banking on dissatisfied owners getting tired of complaining, whether or not they ever sign on.



This is how I see it, too.


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## DeniseM (Jul 14, 2010)

MikeZ said:


> I don't think it is surprising at all.  This program has taken a couple years for Marriott to refine and they surely anticipated major resistance from a percentage of owners.  There are two ways for a company to deal with the resistance-either address it upfront or wait, do nothing  and hope it dies down.



They may be following in Starwood's "do nothing" steps - when Starwood made their big changes last August, they didn't even announce the fact that they were making any changes! It was weeks before they made any kind of announcement! Owners who wrote formal complaints were sent form letters in response, that gushed about how great the changes were for owners!


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## taffy19 (Jul 14, 2010)

DanCali said:


> They should look at Toyota and now study what Apple will be doing with the iPhone4 fiasco...
> 
> Apple has so far diverted attention to everything else but themselves - now that is backfiring and turning into a PR nightmare. Watch closely, Marriott...


Agreed. I don't know how Toyota is reacting because I am not following it closely but Apple seems to have a superiority complex and they may have more than one problem too. I will follow this closely and here is more. I am glad that I decided to wait in case there were any bugs. I love the competition today as Apple will need to shape up or they will lose market share.

The problem with the big timeshare developers is that they own us once you are in their system. They know that it isn't easy to dispose of your timeshare unless you are willing to sell it at a big loss and even more so now since they have introduced the new exchange program that cannot be transferred to the new owner. It are the Marriott direct buyers who will suffer the biggest loss.  



> *from Apple Regarding iPhone 4*
> 
> _Dear iPhone 4 Users,_
> 
> ...


 
At least, Apple gives you a chance to return the iPhone if you don't like it. It's not a big deal. The problem with the Marriott is that you cannot rescind your contract after the right of rescission period has passed even though they are changing so many rules midstream and can change them again whenever they feel like it.

I know that, if you decide to enroll, you have the option to opt out of the new exchange program but will they restore your ownership to all the rights you had before including the voting rights? So far, nobody at the Marriott can tell me.

PS. Marriott, be on notice as the Apple PR problem is happening already because.....


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## ldanna (Jul 14, 2010)

mas said:


> There are a couple of threads regarding MVCI and the points system over on flyertalk in the Marriott Hotel section.  The first thread includes an official response from the Marriott Concierge.  There is also a second thread for those of you who are interested in more reading.



Why do they post on a forum dedicated to Airlines, Hotels and Rental Car discussion, and nothing on a TS forum?


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## LisaRex (Jul 14, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> Why didn't you just say you work for (that company)? When you narrowed it down to Fortune 25 and gave two of (that company's) largest segments, we can figure it out.



I didn't name the company because I'm not posting as a representative of that company. 

Exrvi (Jeff), 

I grew up in Finneytown! I play tennis with quite a few people from Wyoming.  Things are good here in Cincinnati.  Hope things are good down South, too.


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## aka Julie (Jul 14, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> I didn't name the company because I'm not posting as a representative of that company.
> 
> Exrvi (Jeff),
> 
> I grew up in Finneytown! I play tennis with quite a few people from Wyoming.  Things are good here in Cincinnati.  Hope things are good down South, too.



Hello from another local (westside) and former 30 year employee with "that company." 

We own 3 weeks and at this point I don't think we'll be joining  We bought where we are perfectly happy to go every year (Hilton Head and Palm Desert).

I too am disappointed that MVCI has been so silent, especially since I also get on Flyertalk from time-to-time and see that Marriott has someone who responds in that forum.


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## camachinist (Jul 14, 2010)

It took a long time to get an 'official' Marriott representative on Flyertalk. There were a couple 'unofficial' representatives for a number of years, 'socrates' probably being the most well-known, but Marriott is very particular about employees answering questions in public. See our own Fletch as an example. He shares a lot more now that he's no longer with MVCI and is working for DVC. 

Trust that there are plenty of Marriott lurkers reading TUG, in addition to the information which is shared with them by TUG members with company contacts. They know what's going on. Time will tell whether or not it is meaningful to them. I personally do not see this microcosm of the MVCI world influencing them in any way. We can, however, influence other current and future customers. That's where the work lies, IMO.


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## Art (Jul 14, 2010)

ldanna said:


> Why do they post on a forum dedicated to Airlines, Hotels and Rental Car discussion, and nothing on a TS forum?



a. Because hotels make up the majority of Marriott's business. Timeshares are a relatively minor sideline

b. Because posters on FlyerTalk are current and future hotel customers. Having a  representative on-line  to answer questions protects/promotes the existing business. How many people participate on the TUG Marriott board because they are customers for another timeshare purchase from MVCI?  I am sure if MVCI thought that having a rep on TUG  would  promote future  sales, he/she would be here.

As a parallel question, there  is a Starwood Lurker over on FlyerTalk. Does Starwood have a similar presence on the TUG Starwood  board?

Art


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## DeniseM (Jul 14, 2010)

Art said:


> As a parallel question, there  is a Starwood Lurker over on FlyerTalk. Does Starwood have a similar presence on the TUG Starwood  board?
> 
> Art



Nope......


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## LisaRex (Jul 14, 2010)

aka Julie said:


> Hello from another local (westside) and former 30 year employee with "that company."
> 
> We own 3 weeks and at this point I don't think we'll be joining  We bought where we are perfectly happy to go every year (Hilton Head and Palm Desert).



Hello Julie from the West side!  

We also love Hilton Head and can't wait for the last chicken to fly the coop so we won't have to go in the middle of the summer anymore when it's hot enough to fry an egg on your head.  Fall sounds so much more appealing!  We're lucky to have a relative who owns a villa in Sea Pines, so we get to go for free.  I'm jealous that you're right on the beach, though.  We're a 5 minute bike ride away.  

I've never been to Palm Desert, though I'm itching to go one year if I can get over the disparity in MFs between Hawaii and California.

Back to the topic: I don't known one way or another what Marriott expected in terms of reaction, but I hope they are listening and will respond to their customers.  It's very short-sighted of a company to risk losing the loyalty of customers because it's very, very difficult to get them back once they leave.  It's a shame because for months I regretted not buying at Marriott vs. Westin because the former owners seemed so much happier with II.


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## MikeZ (Jul 14, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> Unfortunately/fortunately companies take letters far more seriously. There are far more people willing to complain on a blog, or on a forum. Fewer will write an e-mail to the company, but only a small percentage will actually take the time to write a letter put it in an envelope with a stamp and mail it.
> 
> I don't know how many people that are dissatisfied have actually taken the time to write letters, but letter show a true dissatisfaction with a company and it's product. Until people write letters, nothing will change. I think that it will take more than a few Internet forum grips to change Marriott's mind. In the grand scheme of things we are just but a blip.




I am looking for an address where my letter would have the best chance of getting through to Mr. Cunningham, Mr. Weisz, etc.  Can anyone direct me?  Has anyone sent a (snail mail) letter and received a response?


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## camachinist (Jul 14, 2010)

Since this issue can/will evolve into a PR 'situation', perhaps James Woelbern, director of public relations at MVCI, would be interested. Seems like effective PR is going to be cruicial, moving forward. Hope it works out for him 

Alternatively, contact travel writers at major periodicals and have them contact him while writing a story on this new system. We've done this (I've been interviewed myself) for stories on United (airlines) and such publicity has been helpful for our 'cause'.

Their interest in and policy response to this thread will be telling...


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## Superchief (Jul 14, 2010)

As another former employee of that company in Cincinnati and a long-term loyal Marriott customer, I am hopeful that Marriott listens to their customers and realizes this program is a big mistake (ala New Coke!). I had been loyal to Marriott becaues they seemed to care about their customer and employees. I am concerned that the 'new' generation of managers are focusing too much on revenue/margin rather than recognizing that happy customers are key to long- term success.

It is very disappointing that there have been no responses from management to these posts on TUG and the Marriott Insiders forum.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 14, 2010)

MikeZ said:


> I am looking for an address where my letter would have the best chance of getting through to Mr. Cunningham, Mr. Weisz, etc.  Can anyone direct me?  Has anyone sent a (snail mail) letter and received a response?



You might find something in this thread.


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## cbdmvci (Jul 16, 2010)

*OP Question Answered by Continued Silence*



cbdmvci said:


> Are we just a few hundred vociferous consumers with particularly analytic minds in a universe of several hundred thousand MVCI owners and millions and millions of non-owners who couldn't care less?
> 
> Are we all just immaterial?




I guess Marriott has answered my OP question.

We are immaterial.

Their smartest play is to disregard we few ... not respond to our complaints ... or those on Bill's blog or on the II blog ... not answer our questions ... not clarify that which they have (purposefully?) left vague ... not train their sales rep's sufficiently ... and play out their playbook launch as planned.

But, here's what they didn't consider.  In anger at their hubris, I have just cancelled plans for a  Marriott Hotel 60-participant three-day sales conference for the late Fall.  (And I have held two similar in the last six years.)

Gold Level Elite.  Just back from a (cash) stay at the JW in Cancun.  Thirty years of loyalty.  Blown in nine days.  Can it be that I am the only one?


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## GregT (Jul 16, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> Gold Level Elite.  Just back from a (cash) stay at the JW in Cancun.  Thirty years of loyalty.  Blown in nine days.  *Can it be that I am the only one?*



CBD,

You're not alone on this one -- I'm also pretty high up there -- Platinum Level Elite, have stayed almost exclusively at Marriotts last 10 years, nudged our National Sales Meeting last year to Marriott World Center Orland ($50K).

Now, I'm a Hilton guy -- reactivated my membership last week (inactive since 2001), Hilton gave me status -- not Platinum, but it's enough.   National Sales Meeting will be a jump ball between Hilton and Hyatt.  Trip to Manhattan next month, staying in a Hilton.

I'm a little fish -- I don't move the needle -- but I sure feel disappointed in how Marriott has treated its existing, loyal customers.  

Good luck to all,

Greg


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## gblotter (Jul 16, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> Can it be that I am the only one?


You are certainly not the only one.  I'm of no particular consequence - I own only two weeks - just normal Elite status.  But my loyalty has also been lost.

I'm currently involved in a serious sales discussion with Disney Vacation Club for the purchase of a fixed week at Disney Ko Olina.  That sale very nearly went to Marriott (we were at Marriott Ko Olina back in March), but I'm looking elsewhere now.  Hard to maintain any trust in Marriott after all this.

As I said in another thread: Marriott has apparently forgotten that a good reputation takes years to build and minute to lose.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 16, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> I guess Marriott has answered my OP question.
> 
> We are immaterial.
> 
> ...



My suspicion is that the boisterous few are immaterial to Marriott (e.g. the cost of doing business). Yes, I've heard that for every one customer that you loose, you have to attract six new customers. But remember, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree; Marriott makes its money on Developer sales, and many on this forum have held strong anti-Developer opinions for years, and have a low propensity to refer friends and family to Marriott who will make Developer purchases).

My gut sense is that neither this forum nor some number of those who participate on it are worthy of Marriott's attention. I suspect that this issue will simmer down, and some critical mass will defect. Again, while it's unfortunate to lose business, the loss of some business is inevitable, and when one loses bad business, the loss of that business may create a genuine win for a company (e.g. do you think that those who have a fascination for "racking up" Mattiott gift certificates and food stamps on repeated sales presentations are a group worthy of Marriott's attention?).

We too have defected from Marriott Hotels for a variety of reasons, and we've shown new loyalty to Starwood, Hyatt, and Fairmont. Each has its perks, but at the end of the day none of them have the relentless consistency of Marriott.


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## gravitar (Jul 16, 2010)

cbdmvci said:


> Can it be that I am the only one?



You are not alone.

I don't own so I don't have any skin in the game but, based on how this is being, or not being, handled I am:

cancelling marriott rewards card  that is in my wifes name, her account has 275,000 MR points in it

spending down my MR account with 250,000 points in it and moving my lodging business that Starwood couldnt support to Hilton

Anyone else?


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## jlf58 (Jul 16, 2010)

Thats actually not true, of thier 7 or so hotel brands, MVCI was the 2nd most profitable a few years ago so thats a big deal 





Art said:


> a. Because hotels make up the majority of Marriott's business. Timeshares are a relatively minor sideline
> 
> b. Because posters on FlyerTalk are current and future hotel customers. Having a  representative on-line  to answer questions protects/promotes the existing business. How many people participate on the TUG Marriott board because they are customers for another timeshare purchase from MVCI?  I am sure if MVCI thought that having a rep on TUG  would  promote future  sales, he/she would be here.
> 
> ...


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## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2010)

Fletch said:


> Thats actually not true, of thier 7 or so hotel brands, MVCI was the 2nd most profitable a few years ago so thats a big deal



But their size pales in comparison to their other core brands. There are far more locations and rooms at their core brands. So while it may have been more profitable, the $$$ of profit may have been small by comparison.


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## jlf58 (Jul 16, 2010)

This has nothing to do with amount of rooms, I am talking total revenue generated. Keep in mind MVCI was doing close to 1.5 billion in sales a year. 




dioxide45 said:


> But their size pales in comparison to their other core brands. There are far more locations and rooms at their core brands. So while it may have been more profitable, the $$$ of profit may have been small by comparison.


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## LisaH (Jul 16, 2010)

Fletch said:


> MVCI averaged around 2 million a day for the whole company last year. Hilton Head is NOT doing 25% of the company buisness. They call them super sites ( volume wise ) and they are Newport, Maui, KoOlina, maybe one or 2 others, Hiton head is not in thier league. $500,000 a day  is just plain BS





Fletch said:


> This has nothing to do with amount of rooms, I am talking total revenue generated. Keep in mind MVCI was doing close to 1.5 billion in sales a year.



Not to be argumentative, but your #s do not quite add up. Assuming Marriott does business 365 days a year, $2M X 365 = $730M, about half of what you mentioned above of 1.5 billion in sales a year...?


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

gravitar said:


> You are not alone.
> 
> I don't own so I don't have any skin in the game but, based on how this is being, or not being, handled I am:
> 
> ...



Gravitar - have no problem with you choosing to stop doing any business with Marriott, but I think that if you cancel the MR account in your wife's name then you will lose those accumulated points.  I'm not certain but you should look into it, that would be a terrible waste.  You can always stop using the account number but keep it open until you've managed to spend the points.  I wouldn't let those go for nothing, maybe you can at least look at the catalog and spend them there?


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## jlf58 (Jul 16, 2010)

last year they did about 800 million. 3 years ago they hit about 1.4 billion 



LisaH said:


> Not to be argumentative, but your #s do not quite add up. Assuming Marriott does business 365 days a year, $2M X 365 = $730M, about half of what you mentioned above of 1.5 billion in sales a year...?


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Gravitar - have no problem with you choosing to stop doing any business with Marriott, but I think that if you cancel the MR account in your wife's name then you will lose those accumulated points.


Not true, Susan. An individual's Marriott Rewards account is not tied to having a Marriott Rewards credit card. Yes, an  individual can earn Marriott Rewards points by having such a card, but it's not required to have one. 

Many of us here had been Marriott Rewards members for many years (since 1982 for me) before finally getting a Marriott VISA when the black Premier card was introduced a few years ago.


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## pwrshift (Jul 16, 2010)

I don't have a Marriott credit card, never have, as the Canadian card doesn't pay like it does in the USA.  Yet I've totally enjoyed the MR program and whatever name it had before that.

Brian


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

Fletch said:


> last year they did about 800 million. 3 years ago they hit about 1.4 billion


Actually, timeshare revenues were $1.84 billion in 2006 and $2.06 billion (including management fees) in 2007. However, that represented only 15% and 16%, respectively, of Marriott's total revenues in those years. And the timeshare profit was only 20% (2006) and 19% (2007) of total profit from continuing operations. The link.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Not true, Susan. An individual's Marriott Rewards account is not tied to having a Marriott Rewards credit card. Yes, an  individual can earn Marriott Rewards points by having such a card, but it's not required to have one.
> 
> Many of us here had been Marriott Rewards members for many years (since 1982 for me) before finally getting a Marriott VISA when the black Premier card was introduced a few years ago.



I'm confused.  I didn't think gravitar was talking about the VISA card and I wasn't either.  He said he was cancelling his wife's MR account - wouldn't that mean the points attached to that account are forfeited?


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> I've totally enjoyed the MR program *and whatever name it had before that. *


Remember "Honored Guest Awards Program" until the late 1990s?


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm confused.  I didn't think gravitar was talking about the VISA card and I wasn't either.  He said he was cancelling his wife's MR account - wouldn't that mean the points attached to that account are forfeited?


Uhhh...

I think this is what he said:





> cancelling marriott rewards *card* that is in my wifes name


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## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Uhhh...
> 
> I think this is what he said:



I think that is what he said, but not what he meant. I deciphered it to mean that he would close his wifes MR credit card, because only a fool would close a points account with 275K points in it. I didn't take him for a fool.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Uhhh...
> 
> I think this is what he said:



  Still confused or just having a moron moment.  I have a paper MR card and a plastic Marriott VISA card.  I thought he meant that he was calling Marriott to say that he wanted his wife's MR account closed.

Nevermind.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> I think that is what he said, but not what he meant. I deciphered it to mean that he would close his wifes MR credit card, because only a fool would close a points account with 275K points in it. I didn't take him for a fool.



Well geeeze, now you're making me look worse than a moron - now I look mean too!  I only mentioned it just in case, didn't intend to call him a fool.


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

dioxide - We are saying the same thing. I quoted his line where he said they would be canceling her card. He made no mention of canceling her Marriott Rewards account.

Susan -

Think logically about what is being canceled. As dioxide says, I believe the only reasonable interpretation is canceling the credit card. How many people here refer to their Marriott Rewards account as their "card"? Probably not many, if any.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> Well geeeze, now you're making me look worse than a moron - now I look mean too!  I only mentioned it just in case, didn't intend to call him a fool.



That wasn't my intent . I know your intentions were well and didn't think you were calling him a fool either. My sense of humor may not have come across well.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

Dave M said:


> dioxide - We are saying the same thing. I quoted his line where he said they would be canceling her card. He made no mention of canceling her Marriott Rewards account.
> 
> Susan -
> 
> Think logically about what is being canceled. As dioxide says, I believe the only reasonable interpretation is canceling the credit card. How many people here refer to their Marriott Rewards account as their "card"? Probably not many, if any.



I know, I know ... as soon as you made me think about it I figured out how much of a moron I was.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 16, 2010)

ANYWAY Gravitar, if you want to forfeit the points, too, you can transfer some to me, Dave and Dioxide.  :hysterical: 

No worries all around.


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## Dave M (Jul 16, 2010)

One thing we all suffer from is that the more we post, the more likely it is that we will read someone else's post in a different way than was intended. Just ask me!


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## gravitar (Jul 16, 2010)

gravitar said:


> You are not alone.
> 
> I don't own so I don't have any skin in the game but, based on how this is being, or not being, handled I am:
> 
> ...



Card= Credit Card not MR account
Account = Marriott Rewards account

Sorry I was not clearer


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## JimC (Jul 16, 2010)

Marriott has five business segments.  The timeshare segment is:

1. about 2% (12,891/595,461) of total rooms managed

2. about 13% ($1,439m/$10,831) of 2009 revenues down from 16% of segment revenues in 2007

3. $679m loss in 2009 down from a $306m profit from continuing operations in 2007.  It offset all but $4m of the segment profits of the other four segments combined.  In 2007 timeshare was about 19% of segment profits.

Timeshare may be small in terms of rooms but it is far from immaterial in terms of revenues and profits.  I doubt the criticisms are going unnoticed.

Marriott moved the cheese (as the book similarly titled would say) and we are not happy about it.  But they reorganized how they sell to get away from the inherent problems of selling seasonal weeks in this market.  I don't believe Marriott came up with the best redesign possible nor the best roll-out possible.  Only time will tell how well they conceived and executed this new program.  But I am hopeful Points 2.0 will be rolled out soon to fix the apparent glitches.


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## LisaH (Jul 16, 2010)

JimC said:


> Marriott has five business segments.  The timeshare segment is:
> 
> 1. about 2% (12,891/595,461) of total rooms managed
> 
> ...



OMG! No wonder Marriott had to do something with its timeshare business. I just wish Marriott would treat the legacy owners more fairly.
Jim, thanks for the analysis. The number speaks for itself.


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## m61376 (Jul 17, 2010)

EducatedConsumer said:


> My suspicion is that the boisterous few are immaterial to Marriott (e.g. the cost of doing business). Yes, I've heard that for every one customer that you loose, you have to attract six new customers. But remember, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree; Marriott makes its money on Developer sales, and many on this forum have held strong anti-Developer opinions for years, and have a low propensity to refer friends and family to Marriott who will make Developer purchases).
> 
> My gut sense is that neither this forum nor some number of those who participate on it are worthy of Marriott's attention. I suspect that this issue will simmer down, and some critical mass will defect. Again, while it's unfortunate to lose business, the loss of some business is inevitable, and when one loses bad business, the loss of that business may create a genuine win for a company (e.g. do you think that those who have a fascination for "racking up" Mattiott gift certificates and food stamps on repeated sales presentations are a group worthy of Marriott's attention?).
> 
> We too have defected from Marriott Hotels for a variety of reasons, and we've shown new loyalty to Starwood, Hyatt, and Fairmont. Each has its perks, but at the end of the day none of them have the relentless consistency of Marriott.



I disagree- half their business is generated by past customers. Many Tuggers have bought direct and would so so in the future if the program appeared fair and enticing. Many resale buyers are also past and potentially future direct purchasers. 

I may be wrong, but I think if this was a program that most could truly embrace- without the skimming, and with point valuations tied to something discernible (some real life valuations, such as Marriott's own rental rates or some other quantitative parameter that seemed reasonable, or even their own property categorizations) or if they did like most of the other point systems, and limited the point valuations to a few levels (based on their own property levels already established) - many (most) here would be touting the benefits not only of joining but of using. 

I'm sensing most of the people, or at least many, that have posted here even if they do join they will primarily use and trade in weeks. That's not what Marriott really needs for the system to work going forward. They need those weeks traded in for points so point owners can book rather than having to waitlist. If they created a more user friendly system not only would Tuggers be happy, but we'd be telling our friends and people around the pool to join. Maybe we'd even add some points to our portfolio.

It is bad business to turn one's back on any customer base. As I've said before about resale buyers- any happy present owner is a potential future customer- either personally or through referrals. And unhappy owners are much more vocal in general than unhappy ones.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 19, 2010)

Dave M said:


> Actually, timeshare revenues were $1.84 billion in 2006 and $2.06 billion (including management fees) in 2007. However, that represented only 15% and 16%, respectively, of Marriott's total revenues in those years. And the timeshare profit was only 20% (2006) and 19% (2007) of total profit from continuing operations. The link.



Dave,

Thanks for the Marriott Consolidated Statement of Income Link.

While reading the statement I came across the term
'RevPar' in several locations. I was hazy on the meaning of the term and decided to learn more.

I came across this interesting article - Understanding RevPar by William Reed.  I don't think the fact that it was written in 2001 diminishes the points made.

Thanks again.

Richard


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## Luckybee (Jul 19, 2010)

LOL....whats really funny is that reading through the part about the credit card/rewards card is that I found that I was on the same page as Sue....now for her and I *that is* something that doesnt happen every day


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## pacheco18 (Jul 19, 2010)

I, for one, am not going to do the proverbial "cut off my nose to spite my face."

I just completed an 8 night paid stay at the Marriott Eastside (NYC) - I am Platinum.   Upgraded and had access to the executive lounge all week.  Terrific free breakfast, hors d'oeuvres, unlimited water, soda and snacks.  Last month upgraded to a huge suite in Orlando. I have stayed in some wonderful hotels for free with my points - the rack rate for my free Rome stay on the Via Veneto was 1500 a night!.  Upcoming free stays planned in Singapore and Hong Kong both with free access to the lounge.

I may not want Destination Points but I love my MR Points.


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## gravitar (Jul 19, 2010)

pacheco18 said:


> I, for one, am not going to do the proverbial "cut off my nose to spite my face."




I assume you are referring to my earlier post. Based on my circumstances I don't think that's what I am doing.

I have about 400K HHonors points, about 400K Starpoints, and between my wife and myself, about 600K MR points

I own Starwood, I dont own Marriott. 

I don't travel enough to maintain elite status in all three programs. I dont have any status with Marriott at this point. 

I am well served by both Starwood and Hilton.

I can be better served by trading in my MR credit card (  ) for an HHonors Amex or for a Chase UA/CO card

I have plenty of MR points to spend. If the negative speculation turns out to be true, I dont  see any reason for me to support the company. Of course they will never miss my spend but thats not the point


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