# Went to presentation and really confused



## Pucelle (Nov 6, 2012)

So I went to the Wyndham timeshare presentation cause I "won" a free weeks vacation and wanted to pick it up.  I just found this site last week when looking up information on DVC and saw that the WorldMark points have the best RCI exchange value.

When I went to the 3-hour 120 min presentation  it didn't match up with anything that I had seen when browsing through and now that I've read through the Wyndham FAQ I'm even more confused.  The contract that I was offered was for Club Wyndham with no host resort that I could see.  When I kept saying no they then showed me the every odd year one that was based at a location but otherwise they were just points that could be used anywhere.  RCI was included, the fee was quoted monthly, the price was almost $200 per 1K ($185), and the VIP level was 308K.


So I know that I can get Club Wyndham points for about $1 and can expect annual fees on them to be around $700-800 a year for 126-156k points (didn't see a breakdown per 1k).  But aside from that I'm confused on everything else since what I've seems to apply to people who have a host resort.

I don't own a timeshare and go on vacations 1-6 times a year depending on what deals I get.  When I travel internationally I tend to spend more money than when I go locally.  The vacations last from an extended weekend though to 2 weeks.

I'm only interested in Points and Flexibility as the only place I go to on a regular basis is Orlando & NYC.  The studio & 1-bedroom options interest me as well as the VIP perk of Fast Access (45-day reservations via RCI for $259) but that's not available on resales.  Oddly enough when I did research on VIP status, all the things that were mentioned in the presentation were not really spelled out & on paper doesn't seem to be worth it at all anyway.

If the information has already be compiled somewhere can someone point me in that location?  I'm just trying to figure things out and am confused by what I've read on dated material vs what I learned at the presentation/saw on paperwork.  I get that the Club Wyndham Access resorts have the ARP tied to them and I'm guessing all the other Wyndham Vacation resorts are as a space available based on whatever the non-host resort window is.  Points have to be transferred into RCI & there is a fee for that and for when the reservation is made.  There are also fees for "upgrades" like the All-Inclusive Fee.

What's the main difference between WorldMark and Club Wyndham when it comes to RCI exchanges?  What's the average increase on the fees?  How hard is it to book non-ARP in off-seasons for the resort? Does it matter if you are converting points to RCI vs using them on the Wyndham side?  When points are in the RCI bank do they carry over or must be used within a set period of time?  Is there any real benefit to VIP as the benefits listed in the member book don't seem to be worth the extra maintenance fees.  What is this Fast Access that I was told about in the presentation that I can't seem to find any documentation on anywhere else that is only available to VIP members?  What's the difference between a deeded week and a non-deed point account?  In DVC, the points are a deeded ownership but based on what I'm reading the Club Wyndham are not.

Thanks in Advance


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## simpsontruckdriver (Nov 6, 2012)

Ask questions here! it's about 99% lies in the sales presentation (what is true? The sky is blue, the resort name is/was xxxxx).

TS


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## sue1947 (Nov 6, 2012)

Assume just about everything the sales person told you is a lie.  Wyndham has an F rating from the BBB and they earned it with their sales tactics.  Assume even the dated posts here are the truth.  

Worldmark and Wyndham are completely separate.  Don't buy Wyndham if you really want Worldmark and vice versa.  

Check out the resorts in each system to see which ones match up with what you want.  Orlando is an easy trade, NYC is not.  So you might look at one of the systems that has a NYC resort instead.  Most systems have some kind of point system going now.  

RCI Last Calls are available to everybody who owns RCI.  That Fast Access stuff they told you is all lies.  RCI has sales all the time for $199 or $249 but mostly in over built locations in low season.  You can get some deals but it really depends on where you want to go.  
You don't have to own Wyndham to join RCI.  With WM, you can chose between RCI or II or any of the independents.  Take a look at the directories for each system to see which ones match up with what you want (www.rci.com or www.intervalworld.com).  I think RCI has more NYC.  

There's lots to learn with all the different systems out there.  Ask questions here and read, read, read.  And stay away from those 'free' 'updates'.  

Sue


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## ronparise (Nov 6, 2012)

First of all Wyndham and Worldmark are two separate and distinct timeshare systems that happen to have the same developer, manager and sales force. Dont confuse them. Both can trade through RCI. But with Wyndham you get an included RCI account, with Worldmark you have to pay for that account

Painting with a broad brush; there are two Wyndham systems one with deeds and one without deeds. But they do play well together

Here is a link to the members directory

Most of it is resort descriptions and points charts, but in the back there is a complete description of how Wyndham works. One Tugger recommends reading this material at least several times. You still wont know it as well as she does, but you should be able to find answers to your questions or ask a question here


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## Rent_Share (Nov 6, 2012)

Pucelle said:


> I just found this site last week when looking up information on DVC and saw that the WorldMark points have the best RCI exchange value. .


 
that's an opinion, it may not be the best choice for you

You went to Cadillac dealership and expected to learn about Chevrolets both owned by GM but they do not cross sell


Pucelle said:


> I'm only interested in Points and Flexibility as the only place I go to on a regular basis is Orlando & NYC. The studio & 1-bedroom options interest me as well as the VIP perk of Fast Access (45-day reservations via RCI for $259) but that's not available on resales. Oddly enough when I did research on VIP status, all the things that were mentioned in the presentation were not really spelled out & on paper doesn't seem to be worth it at all anyway.


 
Sounds like you have some salesman lying mixed in there



Pucelle said:


> If the information has already be compiled somewhere can someone point me in that location? I'm just trying to figure things out and am confused by what I've read on dated material vs what I learned at the presentation/saw on paperwork.


 
Unfortunately the information in here is fragmented and 100 % opinion, there is no one right system that is the correct solution for all family situations and geographic location.

The conventional wisdom is to take your time and hang in here for around six months and ask your questions, you will get a feel for which posts are good advice and which posts are people trying to rationalize a bad decision.

In the mean time look here and on Redweek and explore renting from an owner, In many cases it may be less than the Maintenance Fees and exchange costs and you can try before becoming committed to a Maintenance Fee Contract that might be difficult to find a new taker

The Developer Presentation is the worst place to get information, you should be able to find links to the actual governing documents within here. There is no case where the developer purchase is worth the premium over resale.

From your original post the only thing I can recommend is that what you purchase trades in RCI.

Orlando (everybody seems to want DVC) and access to New York (HGVC and Manhattan Club). A lock off, that trades in RCI, with Maximum TPU's might be cheaper and more flexible than Wyndham or Worldmark Points.  You are likely to get a little more bang for your buck since Wyndham Corp controls Club Wyndham, Worldmark by Wyndham *and* RCI and can balance the demand since the control both sides of the equation, there are a few properties that can pull better in RCI than Wyndham's own product due to their members desire for those locations/dates


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 6, 2012)

Clearly do not  do any more sales pitches as they have totally confused you. In fact do not do anything until  doing homework.

There is no fast access program I am  aware of.

Go to the  web site Ron   mentioned  and read the directory with a high liter and then a couple days later read again.  There are also  Forums  that specialize in Wyndham and WorldMark.

Then do some searches here on  specific topics.

General consensus is VIP is waste of money.

Actually Disney is RTU  and Wyndham deeded and converted to symbolic points.

There is a 15K character posting limit  here  so  just not possible to answer  in  one  post.


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## timeos2 (Nov 6, 2012)

The reason why you find nothing in writing on VIP is it is all empty promises. What you may be able to get today may or may not be there tomorrow. It is given as a whim from sales and can be terminated or changed at any time by them. NEVER pay for it!

Second, and most important, buying any timeshare at retail is a huge (as in enormous, gigantic, colossal, etc) error in judgement.  You can always save 50% minimum and often up to 100% (yes, you are given the ownership)  on resale. It is the only way to buy a timeshare. What you pay for purchase (or don't) means absolutely nothing. The real cost are the annual fees and they are the same either way. 

All that goes double for Wyndham. NEVER buy timeshare retail.


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## Pucelle (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, I went into the presentation after having perused this site a couple times so knew going into the presentation that I could get a timeshare for free & not have to pay the up front costs.  I had no intention of buying & had I known what the "free vacation & dinner" entailed I would have said no.

What was confusing was comparing it to the Disney one & then trying to figure out how it tied into WorldMark & RCI.  Hadn't realized they were 3 completely different systems.  I'm no in rush & am looking forward to reading up as much as I can.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 6, 2012)

Pucelle said:


> TI'm no in rush & am looking forward to reading up as much as I can.


 
And don't get tempted to jump at something as you are learning

I rented from both ends of the Spectrum before deciding on Worldmark

Four Seasons Aviara  to a Silver Crown  (Last Tug Review 2004)

Did a Free Trial at DRI

They are very easy to buy, the Maintenance Fee contract continues until you find a viable taker


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## Uppie_ (Nov 8, 2012)

I am fairly new owner and had similar confusion after my purchased. I made a mistake and didn't do enough looking and bought retail, oh well still love my purchase and am more then happy with my experience so far. 

Anyway, I was really confused after I purchased as I looked on here and ebay etc and found everyone was tying there ownership to a resort and I was told that wasn't the case with my ownership figured it was salesman not giving the full truth. However this was not the case. Wyndham has 3 levels of ownership. 

Club Wyndham Select- This is the type of ownership that you are seeing, it is tied to a specific resort. I am still learning all this so please correct me if  I am wrong. But I think with this type of ownership you can book 13 months out at your home resort and 10 months out at all other resorts. Your Maintenance fee is tied to your resort. So there is more risk of them changing significantly from year to year. 

Club Wyndham Access- This is the type of ownership I purchased. With this ownership you don't have a "home" resort you are able to book out 13 months at these resorts aka they are all treated like your "home"

 Destin
Star Island
Wyndham Avenue Plaza
Wyndham Bay Voyage Inn
Wyndham Bonnet Creek
Wyndham Branson at The Falls
Wyndham Branson at The Meadows
Wyndham Cypress Palms
Wyndham Durango
Wyndham Flagstaff
Wyndham Governor's Green
Wyndham Grand Desert
Wyndham La Belle Maison
Wyndham La Cascada
Wyndham Long Wharf
Wyndham Mountain Vista
Wyndham Nashville
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard
Wyndham Ocean Ridge
Wyndham Oceanside Pier Resort
Wyndham Pagosa
Wyndham Palm-Aire
Wyndham Patriot's Place
Wyndham at Fairfield Bay
Wyndham at Fairfield Glade
Wyndham Fairfield Harbour
Wyndham Glacier Canyon
Wyndham Harbor Lights
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Mountains
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Sapphire Valley
Wyndham Riverside Suites
Wyndham Santa Barbara
Wyndham Sea Gardens
Wyndham Sedona
Wyndham Shawnee Village
Wyndham Skyline Tower
Wyndham Smoky Mountains
Wyndham Steamboat Springs
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Lake Marion
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Panama City Beach
Wyndham Westwinds

The other Feature I was after the fact told about so I assume its true is MF are much more stable with this ownership. I do believe this is deed as well. I think I was told that I can not confirm however. The salesmen on my first trip(reunion its amazing) told me that actually Access MF have gone down 1% last 2 years. He did caution that this is not likely to happen but the program was set up to have very flat MF. This was after the fact on my first trip so I don't know why he would have lied or stretched the truth on this. 

Club Wyndham Presidental reserve is that third- this one I know very little about but, you get reservations 14 months out at home resort. They hold Presidential 75% of pres rooms until 30days. You can add other services etc too. A lot of other perks too page 317 in Ron's link. 

Hope that is what you where looking for.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 8, 2012)

eBay has a quirk, even if it's not tied to a resort, they will routinely cancel listings that don't specify a single location 

Rather than argue with eBay,(they will not budge) the resellers pick one of the locations confusing new shoppers even if they are selling Club Wyndham Access or Worldmark Points, neither of which are tied to a home resort


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> I am fairly new owner and had similar confusion after my purchased. I made a mistake and didn't do enough looking and bought retail, oh well still love my purchase and am more then happy with my experience so far.
> 
> Anyway, I was really confused after I purchased as I looked on here and ebay etc and found everyone was tying there ownership to a resort and I was told that wasn't the case with my ownership figured it was salesman not giving the full truth. However this was not the case. Wyndham has 3 levels of ownership.
> 
> ...



Good job getting a handle on this so fast,,,Just one point of clarification regarding deeds

In Club Wyndham access there are deeds, but Wyndham holds all of them in a trust.  Your ownership gives you a membership in Club Wyndham Access  and the right to use these properties. We, as individual owners get certificates to evidence our ownership...not deeds


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

Pucelle said:


> Thanks for the replies, I went into the presentation after having perused this site a couple times so knew going into the presentation that I could get a timeshare for free & not have to pay the up front costs.  I had no intention of buying & had I known what the "free vacation & dinner" entailed I would have said no.
> 
> What was confusing was comparing it to the Disney one & then trying to figure out how it tied into WorldMark & RCI.  Hadn't realized they were 3 completely different systems.  I'm no in rush & am looking forward to reading up as much as I can.



Club Wyndham, Worldmark and RCI...three different children all with the same parent "Wyndham Worldwide"


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## Uppie_ (Nov 8, 2012)

So what is the advantage / Disadvantage to either having the paper or having it held in a trust?


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## Rent_Share (Nov 8, 2012)

One less step in transferring your ownership of it is in trust "CWA"


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> I am fairly new owner and had similar confusion after my purchased. I made a mistake and didn't do enough looking and bought retail, oh well still love my purchase and am more then happy with my experience so far.
> 
> 
> Club Wyndham Access- This is the type of ownership I purchased. With this ownership you don't have a "home" resort you are able to book out 13 months at these resorts aka they are all treated like your "home"
> ...



As we are fond of saying here  when salespersons lips  are moving he is lying!

CWA fees  were as follows:

2010   $4.82

2011   $4.84

2012   $4.89

I bought in 2010 so do not have for 2008 and 2009. Hopefully someone else does.

Yes, it is true an average of some 56 out of 76 resorts will   probably go up slower   based on statistical theorems I  do not understand.

It is tempting to buy at new resorts where they are lower due to:

Developer subsidizing

Everything is new and covered by warranties so no need for   reserves TODAY,  but grab the Vaseline tomorrow.

Points inflation.


You might want to compare your list to Wyndham web site. You list around 40 and Wyndham claims around 56. 

Also, CWA points  are prorated over year at participating  resorts,  chances  of getting a hot event week or prime  holiday  are slim to none. I have tried.

CWA also, has worthless ROFR which delays closing a month.

Since I bought resale for a buck cannot verify, but salesperson  stated CWA cost about 20% extra. Defer to someone who has  purchased from Developer.


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

308K points used to be  bogey for Silver VIP.

On November 1, 2102 went to 400K and ALL those Good Life Benefits added?????


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## Uppie_ (Nov 8, 2012)

Boggles my newbie mind why they would increase VIP and make it harder. Well I mean I know its a sales tacit to try to keep people buying more. 

Salesmen told me was because they want it to be something not everyone has. Ok fine. But if you want to make your sale competitive with resale, they need to increase and make benefits like that easier, not harder. 

Same Sales guy also said the WYN has outperformed AAPL over past 5 years. Really dislike how sales guys are always using the fact that they are publicly traded company on why they keep increasing prices etc. Do they think I am that dumb? Do private companies not try to make as much money as they can? Do they not have owners that want a return on their investment too?  We get it your Wyndham is in business to make money. Not a shock.


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## lcml11 (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> Boggles my newbie mind why they would increase VIP and make it harder. Well I mean I know its a sales tacit to try to keep people buying more.
> 
> Salesmen told me was because they want it to be something not everyone has. Ok fine. But if you want to make your sale competitive with resale, they need to increase and make benefits like that easier, not harder.
> 
> Same Sales guy also said the WYN has outperformed AAPL over past 5 years. Really dislike how sales guys are always using the fact that they are publicly traded company on why they keep increasing prices etc. Do they think I am that dumb? Do private companies not try to make as much money as they can? Do they not have owners that want a return on their investment too?  We get it your Wyndham is in business to make money. Not a shock.



I was not with Wyndham when the old Fairfield empire collapased, however, I have heard a horror story or two about what happed to the reservation system in what appears to be its final hours.  

There is some security being with a finacially solvent group than can handle the ups and downs of the markets without any significant disruption of service.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> Same Sales guy also said the WYN has outperformed AAPL over past 5 years. Really dislike how sales guys are always using the fact that they are publicly traded company on why they keep increasing prices etc. Do they think I am that dumb? Do private companies not try to make as much money as they can? Do they not have owners that want a return on their investment too? We get it your Wyndham is in business to make money. Not a shock.


 
The market expects quarter over quarter growth and doesn't care how you get there, Privarte firm look for profitability AND log term value


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## Uppie_ (Nov 8, 2012)

Right I understand how the stock market works. Paid for my purchase with trading gains. WYN has a high PE compared to its competitors. If a company is driven solely by its stock price each Q they are not making the right business choice. 

Market does care a lot about how you get there. They expect top and bottom line growth. They will hammer your stock price if you make bottom line but miss top. They will hammer you huge if you hit both but with one time items. 

They will also hammer you if you make a change in your business model that your customers might not like see NFLX 2011. 

My point being it shouldn't be part of the sales pitch that they are public company. No one thinks they should pay more for scotch tape vs competitors because 3M is public. You pay more for something because it is better. Probably not making my point very well but I just really dislike that.


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## csxjohn (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> Right I understand how the stock market works. Paid for my purchase with trading gains. WYN has a high PE compared to its competitors. If a company is driven solely by its stock price each Q they are not making the right business choice.
> 
> Market does care a lot about how you get there. They expect top and bottom line growth. They will hammer your stock price if you make bottom line but miss top. They will hammer you huge if you hit both but with one time items.
> 
> ...




One of the outrageous statements a Wyndham salesman told my daughter and son-in-law was that "Wyndham is a very large, profitable company and we don't need your money, let me show you how we can help you."

I was in the other room while they listened to his nonsense in the dining room.

Seems like the opposite approach to what you are talking about.  On one hand they need to charge more because they are public and on the other hand, we don't need your money.

Either way they just lie and lie and say what they think you want to hear.  It must work because they sell a lot of units.

I dislike the lying no matter what the lie.


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

Uppie_ said:


> Boggles my newbie mind why they would increase VIP and make it harder. Well I mean I know its a sales tacit to try to keep people buying more.
> 
> 
> ************Will probably backfire as   Silver VIPS like me have been bombarded  with "special"  offers to upgrade before increase. I would suspect they  stole most  sales from  next years  up grades.   But 4th quarter 2012 is great and bonuses will flow freely.  Just cut VIP perks  some more in 2013 and  things will be great!
> ...



A first, salesman was not  lying.


Symbol

WYN (Common Stock) 

Date Requested

03/31/09

Closing Price

$4.20

Volume

2,555,589

Open

$4.32

Day's High

$4.32

Day's Low

$4.08

Yes, it has gone up over 12 times!

Today it is selling for around $51 or around 2% loss for week while Apple has lost  around 20%.

You figure! Short Wyndham TSs and buy Wyndham(WYN) stock! Actually not sure how one shorts something worth nothing.

Yes, I was around CIRCA 2007  when  Wyndham on line reservation system crashed  and many   Fairfield phone VCs laid off. It was unbelievable  having salesman tell you  don't sweat the small stuff, I will be your personal rep and  take care of your reservation problems or just use  all your points to pay MF.


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## Cheryl20772 (Nov 8, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> One less step in transferring your ownership of it is in trust "CWA"



I think there's a difference in your actual ownership.  If you own a deed, it's a legal document registered in the public records and subject to foreclosure if you default on your obligations.

If you own a certificate of membership in a trust, it's not a recorded document and I don't think there's anything to go after by foreclosure if you default.

What do others think?


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## lcml11 (Nov 8, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> I think there's a difference in your actual ownership.  If you own a deed, it's a legal document registered in the public records and subject to foreclosure if you default on your obligations.
> 
> If you own a certificate of membership in a trust, it's not a recorded document and I don't think there's anything to go after by foreclosure if you default.
> 
> What do others think?



I would be more concerned about the trust going bankrupt that held the deeded properties than how to get out of under the contract.  A bankrupcy by the trust in question would have assests, i.e. in good times the deeds, to be liquidated oh well to the owners of the certificates.  In bad times, the liabilities of the maintance fees would have to be handled, presumably by returning the deeds to the HOAs as the only takers, minus any good deeds in their inventories that would presumably go to creditors or the money from their sale to creditors.  Again, oh well to the certificate holders.  

I have never understood the pre-occupation with how to get out of under the timeshares that one owns if they need to.  This issue should have been considered prior to purchase or dealt with when the need arises.

There are ways to get rid of a timeshare, legally, if one needs to.


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

*Fountainhead*



Cheryl20772 said:


> I think there's a difference in your actual ownership.  If you own a deed, it's a legal document registered in the public records and subject to foreclosure if you default on your obligations.
> 
> If you own a certificate of membership in a trust, it's not a recorded document and I don't think there's anything to go after by foreclosure if you default.
> 
> What do others think?




As happens so often,  Ron has the answer!

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170226&highlight=ronparise


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> As happens so often,  Ron has the answer!
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170226&highlight=ronparise



If I dont know the answer, Ill look it up, and if I cant find the answer Ill make it up

The consequences of a default will probably be different if its a loan and mf you are defaulting on vs  just mf...And I dont know that answer.

Re the new rrlongwells comment. I agree you should be thinking of an exit strategy before you enter into a long term contract. But I can tell you most dont...

I didnt think about a divorce on my wedding day, and I sure wasnt thinking about my daughters college education that night in 1969, in the back of a VW Bus with her mother. And no one except me is thinking about selling their timeshare on the day they buy it


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

lcml11 said:


> I would be more concerned about the trust going bankrupt that held the deeded properties than how to get out of under the contract.  A bankruptcy by the trust in question would have assets, i.e. in good times the deeds, to be liquidated oh well to the owners of the certificates.  In bad times, the liabilities of the maintance fees would have to be handled, presumably by returning the deeds to the HOAs as the only takers, minus any good deeds in their inventories that would presumably go to creditors or the money from their sale to creditors.  Again, oh well to the certificate holders.
> 
> 
> *******Suggest you get a copy of   ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan   Governing Documents   dated 1/01/2012  and read. With an owners equity of $5.3 million pretty nice cushion. Since  canceling member ship costs little can recycle very fast as opposed to   foreclosing on deeded  ownership.  I would expect HOA bankruptcy's before CWA. I would expecting averaging to  prove beneficial.
> ...



******The economic  collapse in 2008 brought  problem of oversold TSs to a head.  With a house or condo there is  underlying value and one needs a place to live. With TS bricks, sticks and mortar are  around  20%,   little   hard value. 

When you take  many   people that could not afford in first place, olde farts like me that cannot use and Developer continuing to  expand inventory  classic case for oversold  and  buyers  market. Yes, one can get rid of, how much are they willing to pay vs taking a  hit on  already bad credit rating? I have five I will give you as long as I do not have to bring any money to closing table.


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## lcml11 (Nov 8, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> ******The economic  collapse in 2008 brought  problem of oversold TSs to a head.  With a house or condo there is  underlying value and one needs a place to live. With TS bricks, sticks and mortar are  around  20%,   little   hard value.
> 
> When you take  many   people that could not afford in first place, olde farts like me that cannot use and Developer continuing to  expand inventory  classic case for oversold  and  buyers  market. Yes, one can get rid of, how much are they willing to pay vs taking a  hit on  already bad credit rating? I have five I will give you as long as I do not have to bring any money to closing table.



Sorry, do not need anymore timeshares at this point in time.  You may want to list the ones involved.  Ron or others may take them.


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

lcml11 said:


> Sorry, do not need anymore timeshares at this point in time.  You may want to list the ones involved.  Ron or others may take them.



I know what he has and Ill take it all, as long as I dont have to bring any money to the table

If Paco would adopt me..and give me those VIP points, we might be able to make a deal


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## lcml11 (Nov 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I know what he has and Ill take it all, as long as I dont have to bring any money to the table
> 
> If Paco would adopt me..and give me those VIP points, we might be able to make a deal



What about a long term lease.  You pay maintance fees, he puts you in his will.  Do not forget to set up an escrow account where a few bucks from rentals are thrown into it from time to time to cover the future deed transfer costs and a few thousand dollars per contract for a liquidation of the timeshares if you do not need them at some point in time.


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## 55plus (Dec 7, 2012)

*Credit Score*



Cheryl20772 said:


> I think there's a difference in your actual ownership.  If you own a deed, it's a legal document registered in the public records and subject to foreclosure if you default on your obligations.
> 
> If you own a certificate of membership in a trust, it's not a recorded document and I don't think there's anything to go after by foreclosure if you default.
> 
> What do others think?



It might hurt a credit score in one way or another if/when they go after delinquent maintenance fees, etc., some how.


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 7, 2012)

*CWA Membership*

See this post for some information!

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170226


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 8, 2012)

lcml11 said:


> I have never understood the pre-occupation with how to get out of under the timeshares that one owns if they need to.  This issue should have been considered prior to purchase or dealt with when the need arises.
> 
> There are ways to get rid of a timeshare, legally, if one needs to.



Robert, for me the "pre-occupation" comes from the day I woke up from the misconception a Wyndham sales rep planted in my head.

I was sold, years ago, that I was buying a deed to real property and "real estate always appreciates over time".  True, I did watch the market and I did see houses increase in value over time.  My own house that I bought for around $50K grew in value to over $300K at one time (now more realistically like $200K).  

So, for us, buying a timeshare seemed a win win.  We could have our summer place at the beach with the same protection for our "investment" as that of a house, but with none of the trouble of keeping it secure and maintained when we were not there; or finding others to use it when we didn't want to use it.  The plus was, that with points, we could use our "investment" to travel other places besides the beach.

So we did buy our timeshares with an exit strategy in mind.  We thought that, when we didn't want it anymore, we would be able to sell it - most likely with a profit.  On the day of revelation, when we realized our "exit" strategy from day one was an illusion, we became very concerned about what our exit strategy will be.  We plan in advance other aspects of our estate; so why not the timeshare item?  We don't want to leave a mess for our kids to clean up when we are gone.  

We thought we were buying an asset (appreciating property) for our estate, when in reality, it was a liability (ongoing MF obligation with no real value).


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## persia (Dec 10, 2012)

@Cheryl20772

One thing you don't have to worry about (at least with the timeshare) is leaving a mess for the kids.  Assuming they aren't on the deed they have two choices, accept the inheritance and pay maintenance fees or reject the inheritance and give it back to Wyndham.  Pretty straight forward....


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 10, 2012)

persia said:


> @Cheryl20772
> 
> One thing you don't have to worry about (at least with the timeshare) is leaving a mess for the kids.  Assuming they aren't on the deed they have two choices, accept the inheritance and pay maintenance fees or reject the inheritance and give it back to Wyndham.  Pretty straight forward....



Actually, when loan is paid off and one has clean deed a default on MF goes back to resort, not Wyndham. It would be great if  it went back to Wyndham  and all owners at resort did not have to eat associated MF.

Lively debated on several threads here!


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