# Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas



## amundson (Mar 24, 2010)

I hpe this is not covered elsewhere.  I checked the Starwood site and can't figure it out.

Does anybody know what the main differences are between the 2BR and the 2BR deluxe?  

There is a difference of 1400 vs. 1550 sq. ft so as far as square feet, the Deluxe is 10.7% bigger, but when you look at MF, the are $ 2,346.36 vs. $3,076.69 for the deluxe, or 31.1% higher.  So you pay an extra $700 per year for 150 square feet?  

Is the view that much better or are there other amenities not listed on the Starwood site?

2BR:  http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/westin_kaanapali_ocean_resort_villas/twobedroom_lockoff.jsp

Deluxe:  http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/westin_kaanapali_ocean_resort_villas/twobedroom_deluxe.jsp


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## DeniseM (Mar 24, 2010)

The 2 bdm. deluxe units are corner units, and they are larger.  Only the ocean front units have better views.  In fact, some of the deluxe units are in Bldg. 4 - which is the farthest from the ocean.  I don't think the 150 sq. ft. difference, comes close to justifying the difference in the MF.


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## okwiater (Mar 24, 2010)

I see 2 big lanais on the deluxe unit as well as a few other differences... but nothing to justify that MF difference. Maybe someone else can shed some light.


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## amundson (Mar 24, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> The 2 bdm. deluxe units are corner units...



Maybe that is part of it because I think corner units would have more windows...


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## readyalready (Mar 24, 2010)

Unfortunately, at least in the OF deluxe, a lot of that sf is in hallway.  The living area is a little larger and the side wall windows make it seem even more so.  I wouldn't pay any extra for it, wouldn't take one of the regular ones but it is really nice in the OF deluxe category (but still wouldn't own one).


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## jerseygirl (Mar 24, 2010)

I always thought that maintenance fees were determined by square footage.  But, when I noticed a discrepancy at Sheraton Broadway Plantation (similar to the above situation, the fees don't "line up" from a square footage perspective), I sent an inquiry and asked for an explanation.  I received a detailed response/explanation.  It said, in part:

"For Broadway Plantation, the Documents explain that the percentage interest of each unit type is established in accordance with the statutory and total value of each unit."

I took that to mean that the percentage of expenses allotted to each unit type was established in the CCRs (and, again, was not necessarily equivalent to a square footage ratio).

The differences were not nearly as large at SBP -- I was more curious than concerned.  That difference for 150 square feet seems REALLY out-of-line at WKORV.  Yikes!  Do you suppose some random appraiser established them as that much more valuable?  Very strange.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 24, 2010)

The MFs for the Premium (smaller) and Deluxe (larger) are outlined in the WKORV CCRs, and is based on an index that is not aligned on a pure sqft basis.

The studio for the Deluxe unit has a real lanai - where the Premium does not (except the OF does).  Both the 1Bd side and studio side are bigger for the Deluxe than the Premium.

yes - there is 'wasted' space with the hallway in the Deluxe - but for us - we use that space.

The Deluxe villas are wider - versus the skinnier Premium villas (we like this) - and the light as well as the view is more vast.  I have shown photos of this from our Deluxe OF villa here on TUG.

The lanai on the 1Bd side of the Deluxe is huge - approx 25ft by 8ft.  We love this space - especially for the OF.

video links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0hljr_OjrY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CruZeBV3fZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwFfQk9Jq8w

{there was EtOH involved - obviously)


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## readyalready (Mar 28, 2010)

As my somewhat bad luck has it (no bad days on maui, I get it), we will be in a deluxe island view on the back side of building 4 starting tonight.  If you have more specific questions, fire away and I will try to answer.

Let me repeat that I would not take one of these units if given to me free.

I am quite sad to be leaving the Marriott, which for many reasons, front desk personnel included,  has leapfrogged ahead of the Westin in our family rankings.


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## DeniseM (Mar 28, 2010)

I feel your pain!

Is this an II/SO exchange or are you an owner?

When did you make the exchange?

Did you submit a location request in advance?

Did you ask for a different unit at check-in?


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## readyalready (Mar 28, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> I feel your pain!
> 
> Is this an II/SO exchange or are you an owner?
> 
> ...



This is an island view owner reservation made not long ago.  I made a building request at the time of reservation, called a week out, came by mid week and registered before 9 am.  At all times until check-in people were friendly as could be and sure we could be accommodated, and then the day of check-in programming came on about high occupancy and ocean views.  I now know the spiel and would be qualified to recite it upon command if called upon to work the front desk.  Of course it isn't exactly the truth, or accurate, but then again I am at a timeshare...

One of my kids is on crutches as he broke his femur a month ago.  We are staying here because a group of 5 other families we know is also here, 4 of them staying in the North section.  I did want to be in building two, first of all, and 3 second, for proximity to people and pools.  They claim all of those units are ocean view, though how you could say that when the lower levels are blocked by bushes, and in one case the bar building, is beyond me.  I would have been happy over the loading dock.  Our location now is about as far as you can possibly be from the North action.  It has been raining on and off, and I never considered how trecherous all the marble and concrete is, my son took a big fall the first time navigating the pool area which at that time was just wet from swimmers.  We will now be travelling thru the sales center all week as it is a carpeted route to the other side and pools.  We spent last week at the Marriott (where they were much more accommodating) and had no troubles at all, thank goodness this isn't the extent of our trip because it is a bummer.

The bottom line is that I am just a teeny tiny Starwood customer and these folks don't give a darn.  I get it, and will try very hard to not come back (which is fine because we really do like the MOC much better).


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## DeniseM (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm sorry you are disappointed, but since you rented an Island View, I don't think getting a deluxe unit is a bad deal at all.  Views are based on the date the owner made the reservation.  Yes, an upgrade would have been nice, but unless you are an Elite owner, you really have no priority for an upgrade.  If it's any consolation, you probably paid a lot less for an Island View, too.


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## jarta (Mar 28, 2010)

WKORV was sold with views: OF, OV & IV. When a WKORV owner calls to reserve, the view of the week controls everything. IV owners will not get an OV room. OV owners will not get an OF room. 

However, for a Staroptions exchange into WKORV, a preference can be asked for. So, someone trading in using Staroptions has a better chance of getting an OV or an OF room than an owner of an IV week. I assume that in very off-peak weeks an IV owner might have a chance to be assigned an OV. But, my people at Starwood tell me that the view you bought is the view you get and the front desk is told not to make exceptions.   ...   eom


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 29, 2010)

readyalready said:


> I did want to be in building two, first of all, and 3 second, for proximity to people and pools.  They claim all of those units are ocean view, though how you could say that when the lower levels are blocked by bushes, and in one case the bar building, is beyond me.


  Believe it or not but those units are ocean view.  I got one once that had a high wall around it.  It was tucked in the corner and they told me that if I stand my toes I can see the ocean.  Clearly to me it isn't what I dreamt of as an ocean view but Starwood isn't really about being fair.  Sorry about your room assignment.  I hope it doesn't ruin your week.


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## readyalready (Mar 29, 2010)

I do think the room assignments are wacked.  I understand the room categories sold, but know that the buildings did not fill with ocean view owners, contrary to what I was told.  I know the rooms with the wall, someone in our group got one last time we were here (an island view upgrade, coincedentally).  Those rooms do stink, but I would have been happy there this time!  The ones closest to the lobby on either side of three are pretty awful, there is a big box on the back side blocking the view too.  As I stood in the line for the third time, I was behind a woman practically doing cartwheels about her upgrade to the front of building two.  

One of our friends is a five star elite, not much shy of a million options.  She reserved three units this week.  They own island in North.  Her unit, reservation made at 9:04 day one, is on the wrong side next to the lobby, view zero.  The unit she got for friends in the original side, different check in day, just a few months ago, was blocked as ocean view and got it.  It is crazy that a person who pays over 10k in Hawaii MF and is such a good loyal Starwood customer got a bit of a shaft for her original, personal reservation.   I know that many who came much later and might not even own here, got better views, despite what they say about their timestamp system.  

I can in fact see the ocean from the couch in the livingroom, and even better from the lanai.  We can wave to the sugar cane train.  I could be home watching snow melt and reappear.  I'm in Maui on vacation, my son only broke his leg and survived to hobble about, life is pretty good.  As long as we can prevent further injury from all the extra distance to travel this won't ruin our vacation, but a little effort and consideration could have made it a lot better and safer, and I'm disappointed that no one cared to bother.


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## jarta (Mar 29, 2010)

readyalready,   ...   "One of our friends is a five star elite, not much shy of a million options. She reserved three units this week. They own island in North. Her unit, reservation made at 9:04 day one, is on the wrong side next to the lobby, view zero. The unit she got for friends in the original side, different check in day, just a few months ago, was blocked as ocean view and got it."

I think that illustrates what I said.  The IV owner got IV.  (And, I might add, probably owns a unit with a comparable IV location.  The front desk is supposed to take original unit view into account.)  The Staroptions trade got the view preference request for OV granted for a 5 Star Elite.  Being a good host, the 5 Star Elite took the room with the lesser view.

Room assignments are made diffferently at Maui than at other Starwood timeshares.  That's because the view you buy or rent really matters.  It seems like you received all you were entitled to.  

I don't think talking to the owner you rented from will get you a straight answer.  But, that owner probably knew how the room would be assigned.  And, that's probably why it was in the rental pool.  A comparable reservation location probably happens every year.

The moral:  If you want OV, buy OV.  If you want OF, buy OF.  Because, if you buy IV - or rent from an IV owner - that's what you will get when the reservation is made during the owner preference period - no matter what the Elite level might be.  Or, use Staroptions to trade into Hawaii, if there is still room, after the owner preference period (12-8 months) that is in effect all year long.  Only after the owner preference period ends does the Elite level count at Maui for a view assignment "upgrade" when fungible and unallocable Staroptions are used to trade for an available Maui unit.

And, if you trade in using II, you will go to the back of the line and end up with IV - unless the resort is quite vacant.  However, even II traders are supposed to get an upgrade before a Starwood Maui owner who made a owner preference period reservation (but, this rule may be honored more in the breach).   ...   eom


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## readyalready (Mar 29, 2010)

It does illustrate what you said, and I still think it is whacked.  I'm not sure of another place that treats owners of a specific class below that of exchangers.  We all know that many of the island views at North really have some ocean view, she got one of the few units that sees not a bit, as one of the largest owners.  

I didn't know before I arrived that all of the island views here were in bulding 4.  I also know that changes and exceptions are made to the assignments.  The bottom line is still that a little effort would have gone a long way in our situation, and no one could bother until it was too late.  

What has been most fascinating to me, is the difference in weather this week between Kaanapali Beach/Whalers Village area and the Westin Villas, the Villas are getting much more sprinkles/rain, and wind.  I expected it between here and Napili/Kapalua, but not in this two mile stretch...

PS she bought back in the day when 5 star elites got upgrades, and was told she didn't need to buy ocean view, we all know what happened there...


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## jarta (Mar 29, 2010)

readyalready,   ...   I cannot and will not vouch for anything stated by a timeshare salesperson or how it worked years ago.  I am just describing how it actually works now.

View is very important in the Maui room assignment system.  Upgrades across deeded views are not supposed to be allowed for owners making a reservation at 12 months out.

If they were, every IV owner who called at 9:00 am exactly 12 months out would be clamoring about their supposed entitlement to an OF or OV room because their timestamp beat an OV or OF owner's call by a few minutes.

There is not only room type/size at Starwood's Maui properties.  There is view type to consider.

I am Five Star and have an infinitely better chance of getting an OV or OF room at 8 months out by making a Staroption reservation than a IV owner has at 12.  

Perhaps that's what your Five Star friend should do to get a better view now that automatic or mandatory upgrades are not part of Elite status (Five Stars still get upgrades based on availability).  Five Stars can still be on a wait list for something else while holding confirmed reservations - even if they have no Staroptions left.  

If I was a Five Star who owned IV at Maui I'd make the reservation for the IV at 12 months and then release it or rent it out when the 8 month reservation with a preference request is made.  Seems like the room location for an 8 month Staroptions reservation with a preference for a Five Star will always be equal to or better than the 12 month IV reservation.  Maybe that's what happened to you.

But, none of that solves your current view situation - or the fact that it is raining in Maui.  Sorry about that.   ...   eom


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 29, 2010)

readyalready said:


> It does illustrate what you said, and I still think it is whacked.  I'm not sure of another place that treats owners of a specific class below that of exchangers.  We all know that many of the island views at North really have some ocean view, she got one of the few units that sees not a bit, as one of the largest owners.
> 
> I didn't know before I arrived that all of the island views here were in bulding 4.  I also know that changes and exceptions are made to the assignments.  The bottom line is still that a little effort would have gone a long way in our situation, and no one could bother until it was too late.
> 
> ...


 hmmm... I not sure what you are complaining about.  I own Marriotts and I've never been upgraded in a view room ever.  I bought island view at Waiohai and I've never gotten a room with a oceanview ever.  I've always gotten an island view.  The view I bought.   So, I not sure if Marriott would have done anything differently.  Now, the 2 resorts WKORV and Maui Marriott are definitely set up a little differently.  I think, WKORV is fairly spread out compared the Maui Marriott.  So, I can see someone with a broken leg will have a long trek to the pool and beach.  But that is not something that can be changed.   I'm sorry it must be hard to vacation with a broken leg but I don't know how they could have given you a different view.  Also, Starwood and Marriott systems are completely different from each other.  I'm not saying that I like Starwood.  All I'm saying is that Starwood runs a little differently than Marriott.  I would think any vacation with a broken leg would be a challenge.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 29, 2010)

readyalready said:


> \I didn't know before I arrived that all of the island views here were in bulding 4.



The 2BR Deluxe LO's you want to try to get are units 21/22, as they have views of the pool area, and the higher floors have glimpes of ocean in the distance (this is what we were shown when we took the tour and bought 5 years ago).  A response to an inquiry at MSC confirms that these corner units are classified as IV.

As another IV Deluxe owner, I figure there's probably a ~1/6 chance of getting one of these pool views when we show up in July.  I can almost predict that we'll get the parking lot view, and the other 5 units we reserved for other family members will all get ocean views...

You don't want units 00/02 or 01/03 as they look out at the parking lot.  Not sure, but units 01/03 on the higher floors may be able to see ocean in the distance (over the parking lot) -- anyone able to confirm/deny?


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## readyalready (Mar 30, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> You don't want units 00/02 or 01/03 as they look out at the parking lot.  Not sure, but units 01/03 on the higher floors may be able to see ocean in the distance (over the parking lot) -- anyone able to confirm/deny?



Actually, the top two floors on the ocean side, units 03/05, look like they have good views over the trees and buildings, the floor below might be impacted a little by trees.  

Units 02/04 are the back corner looking to the highway and if on the couch or lanai can see the ocean over the lot, buildings and trees from the top floors.  

Units 00/01 are the standard ones on the end in the middle.

good luck getting your preference!


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## YYJMSP (Mar 30, 2010)

readyalready said:


> Actually, the top two floors on the ocean side, units 03/05, look like they have good views over the trees and buildings, the floor below might be impacted a little by trees.
> 
> Units 02/04 are the back corner looking to the highway and if on the couch or lanai can see the ocean over the lot, buildings and trees from the top floors.
> 
> Units 00/01 are the standard ones on the end in the middle.



Hmmm.  They said 00/02, 01/03, and 21/22 were the 2BR Deluxe LO IV unit combos (in building #4).  Sounds like the wrong pairs of units?  Well, off to go annoy SVO again about which units I want.


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## oneohana (Mar 30, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Hmmm.  They said 00/02, 01/03, and 21/22 were the 2BR Deluxe LO IV unit combos (in building #4).  Sounds like the wrong pairs of units?  Well, off to go annoy SVO again about which units I want.



A couple of years ago we were in 4401. It was high enough to see the ocean and had the huge lanai. I would take that unit over many ov rooms.


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## nell (Apr 1, 2010)

I can tell you definitely in Bldg 4, the corner IV units are 19/21 (looks over pool), 18/20 backside closest to the lobby, 02/04 backside on the south side of building.  Units 03/05 are considered Deluxe OV.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 2, 2010)

nell said:


> I can tell you definitely in Bldg 4, the corner IV units are 19/21 (looks over pool), 18/20 backside closest to the lobby, 02/04 backside on the south side of building.  Units 03/05 are considered Deluxe OV.



Argh.  Still more different corner/deluxe unit numbers...  I think I'll call the property directly and see if they can shed some clear light on which are which, so I am requesting the correct ones...


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## nell (Apr 2, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Argh.  Still more different corner/deluxe unit numbers...  I think I'll call the property directly and see if they can shed some clear light on which are which, so I am requesting the correct ones...



Hi,
The reason I know these are the corner units is that I have stayed in both 19/21 and 18/20.  Readyalready says he's in the corner unit that is 02/04.  There are only 3 corners that are IV. Be careful with speaking with the resort, I believe the resort refers to the corners as premiums, maybe DavidRobin can shed more light on that.  I seem to remember him saying something about that.  If you're looking for the actual corners I promise you these are the right numbers.  You'll get the best views possible from the 19/21 units and then the 02/04 units.  Since they built WKORVN the view in 18/20 is not as good.


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## Ken555 (Apr 2, 2010)

I was in unit 21 on the 6th floor. Great view, great unit. Hard to go wrong there on floors 4-6.


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## readyalready (Apr 2, 2010)

nell said:


> I can tell you definitely in Bldg 4, the corner IV units are 19/21 (looks over pool), 18/20 backside closest to the lobby, 02/04 backside on the south side of building.  Units 03/05 are considered Deluxe OV.



This is right, the unit map is here on TUG under owner services, the deluxe units go from the corner back along the long side of the building.

I would ask for the 19/21 units, high floor, though I am completely convinced that it doesn't matter one bit what you request.  We had a good bit of traffic noise in 02/04 though we did have front row seats for the sugar cane train fire fighting action.


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## nell (Apr 2, 2010)

I hope I did this right.  This is a picture from the lanai of 21.  I'm not the best photographer but you can get the point


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## YYJMSP (Apr 3, 2010)

nell said:


> I can tell you definitely in Bldg 4, the corner IV units are 19/21 (looks over pool), 18/20 backside closest to the lobby, 02/04 backside on the south side of building.  Units 03/05 are considered Deluxe OV.



Wouldn't 02/04 be looking back over the parking lot, or is the lanai of the 02 side of the unit looking back "sideways" towards the water?  I assume the 02 side is the 1BR and the 04 is the studio?

The 19 side of the 19/21 would be looking at the side of building #3, correct?  I assume the 21 side is the 1BR and has the view over the pool area?

And it appears that 18/20 is definitely a full parking lot view.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 3, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Argh.  Still more different corner/deluxe unit numbers...  I think I'll call the property directly and see if they can shed some clear light on which are which, so I am requesting the correct ones...



SVN response was:

The corner or end units of each building are designated as Deluxe Two Bedroom Lockoff villas. For example, Island View Two Bedroom Lockoff units ending in 00, 01, 02, and 03 would be deluxe units. 

You are correct; units 21/22 on each floor of building four would be Island View. Units 29/31 and 28/30 on each floor of building three and building two would be Ocean View and Front villas.


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## nell (Apr 3, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> SVN response was:
> 
> The corner or end units of each building are designated as Deluxe Two Bedroom Lockoff villas. For example, Island View Two Bedroom Lockoff units ending in 00, 01, 02, and 03 would be deluxe units.
> 
> You are correct; units 21/22 on each floor of building four would be Island View. Units 29/31 and 28/30 on each floor of building three and building two would be Ocean View and Front villas.



I know what they are telling you but they are infamous for giving incorrect information.  22 and 23 are on the short flat part of the building as is 00 and 01.  Unit 21 is on the corner and is the one bdrm.  It is connected to the studio number 19.  I have my receipts for this unit it is not just my memory I'm going off of. Unless they have cut new entrances to these units in the last two years and connected 21 with 22, I promise you this is correct.  If you want the best view in Bldg 4 you need to request floors 4-6 unit 21/19. Units 03/05 are considered Ocean View.


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## nell (Apr 3, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Wouldn't 02/04 be looking back over the parking lot, or is the lanai of the 02 side of the unit looking back "sideways" towards the water?  I assume the 02 side is the 1BR and the 04 is the studio?
> 
> The 19 side of the 19/21 would be looking at the side of building #3, correct?  I assume the 21 side is the 1BR and has the view over the pool area?
> 
> And it appears that 18/20 is definitely a full parking lot view.



I haven''t stayed in 02/04 but if it is set up like the other ends back side unit 18/20.  20 is the one bd with the lanai on the short side of the bldg facing the lobby.  If you're right up to the railing and turn left you see over the pool. The studio side's lanai faces the parking lot and mountains. 02 should have the balcony on the short side of the building looking out towards Black Rock with the studio side facing the mountains and parking lot. I really didn't go on the lanai in 19.  It does have Bldg 3 in front. Again if you turn to the side you can see the ocean to the left.  It seems you have to do this in some of the ocean views too.


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## LisaRex (Apr 3, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Argh.  Still more different corner/deluxe unit numbers...  I think I'll call the property directly and see if they can shed some clear light on which are which, so I am requesting the correct ones...



Here's the map.  At the very least, you can tell which are corner units. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371


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## nell (Apr 3, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> Here's the map.  At the very least, you can tell which are corner units.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371



Hey Lisa,

The problem is the map is misleading and makes it look like the corner numbers are 21/22 instead of 21/19


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## readyalready (Apr 3, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> Wouldn't 02/04 be looking back over the parking lot, or is the lanai of the 02 side of the unit looking back "sideways" towards the water?  I assume the 02 side is the 1BR and the 04 is the studio?
> 
> The 19 side of the 19/21 would be looking at the side of building #3, correct?  I assume the 21 side is the 1BR and has the view over the pool area?
> 
> And it appears that 18/20 is definitely a full parking lot view.



That is correct, 02 has the balcony on the short side of the building and can see the ocean in the direction of black rock, but not to black rock as it is blocked by buildings/trees.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 3, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> Here's the map.  At the very least, you can tell which are corner units.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371



That's what I started with, then SVO said different unit numbers, and then people here said more different unit numbers.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 5, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> SVN response was:
> 
> The corner or end units of each building are designated as Deluxe Two Bedroom Lockoff villas. For example, Island View Two Bedroom Lockoff units ending in 00, 01, 02, and 03 would be deluxe units.
> 
> You are correct; units 21/22 on each floor of building four would be Island View. Units 29/31 and 28/30 on each floor of building three and building two would be Ocean View and Front villas.



SVN updated response was that 02/04 is a Deluxe unit combination in building #4.

Argh -- I wish they would actually answer the original question ("give me a list of deluxe units, and what view are they assigned").

The map under owner resources here isn't easy to interpret -- from the discussion, I take it a deluxe unit doesn't actually go across a corner (i.e. building #4 units 01/03) , it just ends on the long side of the building (i.e. building #4 units 03/05)?

This is contradictory to what SVN said (i.e. units 21/22 in building #4, and units 29/31 and 28/30 in buildings #2 and #3)


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## LisaRex (Apr 5, 2010)

I see what you're saying.  Just remember that they will always have two units together to make one 2 bdrm lock-out.   So 30/31 go together, as do 22/23.  Once you get that pairing down, it should be easier to interpret the map.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 5, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> I see what you're saying.  Just remember that they will always have two units together to make one 2 bdrm lock-out.   So 30/31 go together, as do 22/23.  Once you get that pairing down, it should be easier to interpret the map.



For some reason, I always thought deluxe = corner, and corner to me meant it wrapped around the corner of the building.

Are there just the four sets of deluxe's on each building, or are there another set of them in the middle of buildings #2 and #3 (i.e. 17/19, 13/15) where there appears to be a little "split" in the buildings on the map?  And what are the 3 boxes to the right of each of those splits supposed to represent?

I think I might go hunt down my original paperwork as I seem to recall it had some architectural floor plans, etc, in them...


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## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2010)

The deluxe units are only on the corners.  The "split/3 boxes" in the middle of the building is where there are elevators and a small lobby.


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## YYJMSP (Apr 5, 2010)

*From the paperwork*

The owner's handbook (Feb 2009 electronic version) has a few pages that list all of the units and their assigned views.

So, to answer my own question to SVO, the 2BR Deluxe LO's are:

Building #2 (aka "Kahakai" or "A")
26/28, and 27/29 -- OF on each of 6 floors

Building #3 (aka "Makani Kai" or "B")
26/28, and 27/29 -- OF on each of 6 floors

Building #4 (aka "Ahelani" or "C"):
02/04, 18/20, and 19/21 -- IV on each of 6 floors
03/05 -- OV on each of 6 floors


For everyone's amusement, there's a page that lists prices.  2BR Dlx LO's were listed as $56,900 (IV), $72,900 (OV), and $114,900 (OF) for annual use.

Kinda interesting reading some of this -- for an extra 10% you can fix your owernship week, and for another 10% (on top of the first 10%) you can fix your ownership unit.


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## nell (Apr 5, 2010)

The map is very deceptive. I don't even think they have the shape of the building right. 21, 20, and 02 are the 1 bdrm part of the corners.  They have the long lanai that actually goes along the short part of the building.  The studio portion is 19, 18 & 04, all of which are on the long side of the building and have small square lanais.  In the picture I posted, you would be standing at the left end of the long lanai.  You will also have that view from the living room & I believe kitchen windows of unit 21.  So the corner units do wrap around it just doesn't look that way on the map.


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## clsmit (Apr 5, 2010)

*Purchasing at WKORV, reserved at WKORVN?*

I'm hoping someone can explain if this is possible. I'm in the process of buying an OF 2BR LO at WKORV (at least, according to all the paperwork I've seen so far, I am). I asked the closing company/current owner to reserve my Spring Break 2011 unit 12 months out. The confirmation I got today is for

1) WKORV-N, and
2) says OF

Questions: How could I reserve 12 months out at WKORV-N if I'm not going to own there, and what units are OF at WKORV-N?

Thanks for all of your help!


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## DeniseM (Apr 5, 2010)

My bet is that you are actually buying at WKORV-N - have you seen a copy of the actual original deed?

The other possibility is that the seller owns at WKORV-N as well, and they reserved the wrong unit.

Another possibility is that the 2011 week is not available, and the reseller is trying to pull a fast one on you, by giving you WKORV-N instead.  (For instance - the owner could have deposited the 2011 week with II and the reseller is giving you another week they have access to.)

I would put the brakes on until I get to the bottom of this.  The "OF" views at WKORV-N are far inferior to WKROV, and some owners have been very unhappy with the marginal views that have been included in "OF."


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 5, 2010)

clsmit said:


> I'm hoping someone can explain if this is possible. I'm in the process of buying an OF 2BR LO at WKORV (at least, according to all the paperwork I've seen so far, I am). I asked the closing company/current owner to reserve my Spring Break 2011 unit 12 months out. The confirmation I got today is for
> 
> 1) WKORV-N, and
> 2) says OF
> ...



The BIG question that I would get answered ASAP (!) - what is the deeded villa number?

I find what you wrote as very odd - especially considering that you didn't state the villa type (Premium or Deluxe) since there are 2 OF villa types at WKORV - while WKORVN has 1 villa type.

If this turns out to be a WKORVN OF - I would get out of this deal.  IMO - WKORV OF has value (both Premium and Deluxe), but because of the shear # of WKORVN OF villas (and the angle to the ocean) - therefore not quite as 'OF' as WKORV - would make all the difference in the world to me.  YMMV


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## clsmit (Apr 5, 2010)

In theory (I have yet to see the deed and the search I did on the Hawaii title site didn't return the unit numbers I think I'm getting) we're getting rooms 30/31 (building and floor are not important in this discussion). I do NOT want to stay in WKORV-N. Nothing against that property, but it's not what I hope we are purchasing. I'll learn more tomorrow when the office opens back up. Not that I have real work to do or anything....

Thanks for all of your help! I also called SVO and they were very helpful as well, to the degree that they could be given that we don't have posession of the property yet.


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2010)

clsmit said:


> In theory (I have yet to see the deed and the search I did on the Hawaii title site didn't return the unit numbers I think I'm getting) we're getting rooms 30/31 (building and floor are not important in this discussion). I do NOT want to stay in WKORV-N. Nothing against that property, but it's not what I hope we are purchasing. I'll learn more tomorrow when the office opens back up. Not that I have real work to do or anything....
> 
> Thanks for all of your help! I also called SVO and they were very helpful as well, to the degree that they could be given that we don't have posession of the property yet.



IF you are being deeded a unit ending in 30/31, then it is an ocean front center unit in the Makani Kai building.

This does not answer the question of why your reservation is at North. Something is not right.


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## clsmit (Apr 6, 2010)

Turns out the wrong unit was used to make the reservation, and all that's left (since it's a prime spring break week) is an OF studio at WKORV. So we took that with the hope that either a 2BRLO or the other half will open up. The person calling to make the reservation didn't understand the difference.

And, of course, my timestamp stinks, so I'm looking forward to the porta potty view (http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=850189&postcount=1)


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## DeniseM (Apr 6, 2010)

That really stinks!  Paying the huge MF and getting a studio is just wrong!   Look at it this way, would you have made this purchase at this time, if you knew upfront that all you were going to get was a studio for 2011?  

I am not sure I would go through with the deal.  In fact I wouldn't.  I think I'd cancel and buy from someone who is competent enough to get the job done.  

Have you already paid in full? If so, this seller has absolutely no motivation to make any effort to get a better reservation for you - no matter what they tell you. If they have your money, why do they care?

This is clearly their error - You might try telling them that you are not going through with the purchase unless they  get you the reservation they screwed up.  Someone should be calling daily to try to get a 2 bdm. for you.

If they can't do it, then take the MF you won't have to pay, and rent an OF unit in 2011, and look for something to buy for a 2012 reservation.


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## Ken555 (Apr 6, 2010)

I agree with Denise. Something isn't right with this deal.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2010)

another opinion - you are having difficulties in getting your spring break reserved in 2011 due to demand - that is an issue with all OF Owners.  Add in that you are trying to do this while buying makes it even more challenging - and unfair to put this on the sellers back. The question for me is - why this particular week? - why not another week that you can get your unit type (I assume OFC)? Recall that there are only 12 of these units and some are held as fixed week.


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## DeniseM (Apr 6, 2010)

David - did you see that they FIRST made a reservation for her at WKORV-N, using a different unit than the one she bought?  That was either incompetent or duplitious.

If they had made the reservation when they were supposed to, with the right unit, she would have her 2 bdm. reservation.  Have you ever called at 9:00 a.m. ET, 12 mos. out and not gotten your unit?

I can answer the "why that week" part - It's spring break and she has kids.

Since this seller is able to make reservations with other weeks, my guess is that it's a big reseller and no way would I let them slide!


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> another opinion - you are having difficulties in getting your spring break reserved in 2011 due to demand - that is an issue with all OF Owners.  Add in that you are trying to do this while buying makes it even more challenging - and unfair to put this on the sellers back. The question for me is - why this particular week? - why not another week that you can get your unit type (I assume OFC)? Recall that there are only 12 of these units and some are held as fixed week.



I agree.

While it is certainly nice that the seller was willing to accommodate a reservation request, the timeshare is not yours until title transfers, and Starwood's owner roster has been updated.

The seller may have botched the reservation request, but they should not be held responsible for attempting to do something on your behalf. It seems as if they tried (and executed poorly).

If you cannot use the reservation that has been made, cancel it and book an ocean-front center for a date that is available.

If the sale was conditioned upon a successful reservation, that's a different matter. Then you can cancel the deal, if so inclined.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> David - did you see that they made a reservation for her at WKORV-N, using a different unit than the one she bought?  That is either incompetent or devious.
> 
> If they had made the reservation when they were supposed to, with the right unit, she would have her 2 bdm. reservation.
> 
> I can answer the "why that week" part - It's spring break and she has kids.



I did read this - they may have been just trying to work out the strigent week request (not devious or incompentant) - I still stand by my post.

Put yourself in the sellers position - you are at the 12 month window while going thru this process - and all of a sudden the reservation is requested at a high-week.  It is based on availability - which did not happen for this particular unit (only 12 of them).  If the buyer realy needed this week - they should have started the buying process sooner as to make it clear to the seller.  I think it is an unfair assessment of the situation - sorry - I just do.


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## DeniseM (Apr 6, 2010)

David - you are assuming that the buyer put in the request for this reservation at the last minute.  Knowing CLSMIT - that's not what happened - she is a very savvy multiple week owner, and she knows how the system works.  Hopefully, she will provide more details.  

Plus, how do you explain the seller using a different unit and making a reservation at WKORV-N?  

If she asked the seller to do this well in advance, and the seller agreed as one of the terms of the purchase, then there is just no excuse.  YMMV  

Just to add - I have had my share of major problems with resellers and I seen no reason to cut them any slack:

1)  Sold me a week that had been foreclosed on - this didn't come to light until after it had been recorded with the county and I tried to make a reservation.
2)  Told me the MF was paid, and I didn't have to pay it, and then later said it was a mistake and demanded that I pay it.
3)  Sent me a contract for a random timeshare that I had not purchased and insisted that I'd made a down payment on it.


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> how do you explain the seller using a different unit and making a reservation at WKORV-N?



This is the troubling part of the whole thing.
If I were the buyer I would want to know the status of the 2011 use-week on the unit they did buy.
If it is not available, something is fishy.


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## DeniseM (Apr 6, 2010)

BTW, Fred - I am NOT lumping you into the "incompetent, duplitious, reseller" category.   

I know you are a consummate professional, and I have the utmost respect for you.  In fact, when ever I think someone would benefit from the services of a professional resale agent, I always recommend you and James1975NY.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2010)

DM - I think you may be misinterpreting what I am saying.  Perhaps there is something fishy - but if not - then the buyer should have had in their purchase agreement that this was contigent on getting this specific week - if it was so important to them - and use this to back out of the deal.  I assume (maybe incorrectly) that the seller also owns a WKORVN OF (since how would they reserve this 12 months out?).'

I have no horse in this race.  

We are speculating here - I stand by what I posted.  Obviously (if everything is actually on the up-and-up) - the seller likely failed to follow-through on this request and tried to get the next best thing.  Again - this is not like reserving a IV or OV.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.

If I definitely needed a specific week to be reserved - for a VOI that I was buying, but didn't hold title - I would have put it in the PA, and not have escrow funds released until statisfied.  As with all owners - being able to reserve a VOI is based on availability - so it is quite a demand to expect IMO.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> This is the troubling part of the whole thing.
> If I were the buyer I would want to know the status of the 2011 use-week on the unit they did buy.
> If it is not available, something is fishy.



I think the usage week was likely not reserved up-front (as we are only 1/3 thru the year) - and was keeping open - then a buyer comes along and wants a high-demand week, and it didn't work out - and the seller was trying to do the next best thing in trying to satisfy the request.

If the deeded VOI is an OFC WKORV (as promised) - I see nothing wrong (except the seller underestimated the ability to reserve the high-demand week) - because what is their motivation to pull some type of scam?


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## clsmit (Apr 6, 2010)

*Update*

Thanks to all of you for your comments. Some more background. We are buying thru a broker off an ebay sale. The broker made us a 2010 reservation and I told him about the 2011 reservation we wanted, reminding them that it has to be done at 9am on the date we wanted. He assured us that it would be handled. The closing agent then started the closing process, and we did not let them know about our reservation request, thinking that it would be handled by the broker.

We then went to Harborside for a wonderful week of sun and fun, and didn't check email that much. We didn't get a confirmation when we were gone. When we got back I followed up and found that the reservation hadn't been made.  :annoyed:  

So the closing company made a reservation at WKORVN, not realizing that they had used a different unit to make the reservation. I saw that when I got the confirmation (and posted here). Today they called SVO again and all they could get was an OF studio. The closing agent realizes that they messed up and has promised to call frequently to see if the 1BR or a full 2BR opens up. If it's not fixed by when we take title we'll keep trying. A studio is much less than optimal given the kids (boy and girl) no longer sleep in the same bed, but I'm willing to work with them a little. The price was good enough that I'm OK with a bit of a hassle.


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> I think the usage week was likely not reserved up-front (as we are only 1/3 thru the year) - and was keeping open - then a buyer comes along and wants a high-demand week, and it didn't work out - and the seller was trying to do the next best thing in trying to satisfy the request.
> 
> If the deeded VOI is an OFC WKORV (as promised) - I see nothing wrong (except the seller underestimated the ability to reserve the high-demand week) - because what is their motivation to pull some type of scam?



David,

I am with you. I understand.

My point was a different one. 
To make a 2011 reservation at North, the seller had to use a North week.
That posed my question of what the status of the 2011 use week at South is. 
It should remain unbooked.

That poses the further question of how the seller is to be repaid for the use of the North week to secure the reservation.

I have no horse in this race, either. Just saying....

If the buyer is Ok with it, that's all that matters.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> David,
> 
> I am with you. I understand.
> 
> ...




I agree - I wondered the same thing - perhaps the broker/seller owns WKORVN OF, and is just exchaging with themselves?  If they are only getting the OFC studio side - what is happening to the 1Bd side?  I am sure clsmit is checking into it.


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## Fredm (Apr 6, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> BTW, Fred - I am NOT lumping you into the "incompetent, duplitious, reseller" category.
> 
> I know you are a consummate professional, and I have the utmost respect for you.  In fact, when ever I think someone would benefit from the services of a professional resale agent, I always recommend you and James1975NY.



Denise, it never occurred to me that your comments might apply to me. 

I thank you for your words.  And your referrals!


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## J&JFamily (Apr 7, 2010)

*Easter 2011*

Hi everyone, I don't want to take us too far away from the topic of this thread, but since spring break 2011 was discussed, I wanted to make everyone aware that Easter is very late in 2011 - April 24th.  Passover begins on April 19th.  I don't know how many school districts, employers, etc. will change their typical "spring breaks", but just in case anyone was trying to plan vacations for 2011, you'll want to verify when your employer, school district, etc. will be on spring break.


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## mkfisher (Apr 7, 2010)

Fredm said:


> Denise, it never occurred to me that your comments might apply to me.
> 
> I thank you for your words.  And your referrals!



I concur; Fred Rocks!


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