# What price for RCI points?



## Spence (Aug 31, 2006)

_This is not an ad_, I've listed as few details as possible.  I am not RCI points knowledgeable.

I'm looking for help in pricing or what to expect for a couple of US timeshares that are RCI points.  Their point values are as follows:
*28,500 RCI points w/MF $418
33,500 RCI points w/MF $495*

What should I be able to reasonably ask and get based on point values and related MFs?


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 31, 2006)

Spence, I see deals like those on ebay all the time.  You won't get much at all for those, unfortunately, maybe as little as $100.  I wouldn't pay anything for the weeks because the MF's per point are too high for me.  

The people who buy those would be looking at PFD, I am thinking.  Someone would buy the weeks if you listed on ebay, that is pretty certain.  How much you get would be based on how well you can market the PFD aspect.  As a person who knew absolutely nothing about points two years ago, I would have to say that education in such listings would be paramount.   I would include a link to RCI's PFD chart or give several real examples of PFD.  

Example:

Our Val Chatelle III, Frisco, CO, Silver Crown, red weeks are worth:
45,500 points      $440 MF's = .0097 per point

That sold me on points.


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## Spence (Aug 31, 2006)

These are weeks at an RCI Points resort.  PFD does not come into play.

Or, are you saying the buyer should have one of these to set up a points account and then do PFD?

That's why I included MFs, so you could tell me that bad news.


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## Spence (Aug 31, 2006)

Is this Crossover chart the one you're talking about or is there a specific PFD chart?


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 1, 2006)

Spence, yes that is the chart.

You might get more out of the weeks/points if they are in a great resort area?   

Yes, you are correct, I was saying that would be the way to advertise the points, by talking up the aspect of PFD, once someone buys the points resort you are selling, their weeks could become points as well.  I think you might sell the concept better with examples of various resorts that are not Points resorts as PFD.  That was the main reason I bought.  One of our mountain weeks is considered red, Memorial Day, but the week trades poorly.  I can get anything I want in Orlando, but I might want to go elsewhere.  I decided points was my gateway to exchanges I might not be able to get otherwise.  

I am sorry if I was not clear enough.  I should have included more details.


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## VVTrader (Sep 1, 2006)

*Points*

Spence,

I paid about a grand for my points TS in Vegas which I use for pfd's.

RCI Points annually-14,500       maintenance yearly $145

Hope this helps.

Joe Van


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## philemer (Sep 1, 2006)

Spence said:
			
		

> _This is not an ad_, I've listed as few details as possible.  I am not RCI points knowledgeable.
> 
> I'm looking for help in pricing or what to expect for a couple of US timeshares that are RCI points.  Their point values are as follows:
> *28,500 RCI points w/MF $418
> ...



Most of the vacations I take run about 50K to 60K points (full week) so I'd say the MF are way too high for the points you are getting. A penny a point, or less, is considered a good deal. I wouldn't buy one at any price. Some of the TX resorts give you 50K pts., or more, for MF of less than $400.

Phil


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## BillR (Sep 1, 2006)

The target price for points should be $ .01/Point.  If you purchase a property, amortize the cost (Sales Price + Closing Costs) over a 15 year period, add it to the cost per point with MF and your result will be your TRUE COST OF POINTS.  Your TARGET should be no more than $ .012/Point.


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## brucecz (Sep 1, 2006)

VVTrader said:
			
		

> Spence,
> 
> I paid about a grand for my points TS in Vegas which I use for pfd's.
> 
> ...



Joe, Our Tri at Cliffs is a week # 37 and gets 14,333 RCI Points. What week # do you own there?

Our yearly  at Cliffs is a week # 42 at Cliffs and gets 53,500 RCI Points. I rented our week 42 out this year to lower our costs. We exchanged in the Marroitt instead for the week and also booked Oct 21,22,23 at Cliffs.

There are a lot of ways to lower your RCI Points costs per point. To each there own.

Bruce  

What week # at Cliffs do you have?


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## Tahoe2006 (Sep 2, 2006)

*Pfd-mf*

I am new to points, what does PFD and MF mean.


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## tartanwood (Sep 2, 2006)

Bill Riney said:
			
		

> The target price for points should be $ .01/Point.  If you purchase a property, amortize the cost (Sales Price + Closing Costs) over a 15 year period, add it to the cost per point with MF and your result will be your TRUE COST OF POINTS.  Your TARGET should be no more than $ .012/Point.



We are debating whether or not to convert our fixed week to points.  Am I using your formula correctly?

Cost of converting our fixed week to 64,000 RCI points = $4235

Spreading the conversion fee over 15 year comes to $282/year

MF have been running just under $500/year

$282 + $500 = $782/year

This comes to $.0122 per point, just a bit above your suggested $.012/point.

Would this be a resonable fee to pay for conversion to 64,000 RCI points?


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## tartanwood (Sep 2, 2006)

Accidental duplicate post deleted.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 2, 2006)

Spence said:
			
		

> _This is not an ad_, I've listed as few details as possible.  I am not RCI points knowledgeable.
> 
> I'm looking for help in pricing or what to expect for a couple of US timeshares that are RCI points.  Their point values are as follows:
> *28,500 RCI points w/MF $418
> ...



Spence,

The Maintenance fees are too high for this number of points.  They are both worth less than $1000.  I wouldn't pay more than $250 per week.

If you are looking for a standalone RCI Points resort to use in RCI Points, there are far better deals out there due to the high MF of these units.

If you are looking for a cheap RCI Points to use for PFD, there are far better deals given the high MF for these units.

If you are looking to profit from the units, there isn't any since they are worth much.

I would pass.


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## brucecz (Sep 2, 2006)

Tahoe2006 said:
			
		

> I am new to points, what does PFD and MF mean.



Points For Deposit and Maintenance fees.

Bruce


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## brucecz (Sep 2, 2006)

If you like staying at the resort for the timeframe  that your present ownership provides you,  do not convert as the cost to COVERT at  $4,335. IMHO is way to high of a fee. 

If you keep it as a non converted resort you may use it as a rental to lower your ongoing costs if you deside to sell it.

That  conversion fee of $4,335.combined with  the amount you first paid  for your ownership would make that cost ratio amount of yours even higher that you posted below.

You can pick up nice US timeshares already converted for :whoopie: less money for about the same amount of RCI Points if you look around a bit. They chould have the same or lower MF yearly cost ratio. 

How many yearly RCI Points do you want or think you can use?

If you wanted to, you could sell your present ownership and use that money to help pay for a RCI points resort or RCI Points combo for even far more RCI Points using the  PFD Program..

Bruce  




			
				tartanwood said:
			
		

> We are debating whether or not to convert our fixed week to points.  Am I using your formula correctly?
> 
> Cost of converting our fixed week to 64,000 RCI points = $4235
> 
> ...


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## tartanwood (Sep 2, 2006)

brucecz said:
			
		

> If you like staying at the resort for the timeframe  that your present ownership provides you,  do not convert as the cost to COVERT at  $4,335. IMHO is way to high of a fee
> 
> If you keep it as a non converted resort you may use it as a rental to lower your ongoing costs if you deside to sell it.
> 
> ...




Keeping the unit without converting is a so-so option.
We can never use our resort during our fixed week because we are educators and can never travel mid-May.  We naively bought it to use only for trades.  Even though our resort is listed as red, it has been getting only so-so trades through RCI weeks.  I have given our recent weeks to DAE, but I haven't tried to claim anything yet so don't know if DAE will be much better than RCI.

We haven't tried to rent and probably won't go that route to help cover the costs.  Not sure there would be much demand at a ski resort mid-May.  Actually, both weeks we gave to DAE were claimed quickly, so there may be more demand than I think, but I am not sure I want to take on the hassle of trying to rent it.  

We need to focus on the cost ratio for decisions we make from this point forward.  We are already resigned to the fact that we will never recoup the original price we paid, so I am not figuring that amount into the equation. 

Is there a way to figure out how many RCI points we would need in order to do what we might want to do?  I don't know what you can get for 64,000 RCI points, so I don't know how many we would need or could use.  As educators, our travel is limited to summers and occasional school breaks.  I know that RCI weeks exchanges are difficult to find in the northwest.  All of our exchanges have been far away.  It would be nice to stay within driving distance for a change.  Would having RCI points help us do that?

I don't think we could sell and then buy something else with the proceeds, because I am not sure there really would be many proceeds from a fixed week resale (good area but slow season).  I am just trying to decide whether it is worth it to invest another $4300 to make our current property more useable or whether we should just get out of timesharing completely.

If we do decide to keep our current property, is it worth it to spend $4325 to get 64,000 RCI points for about $.0122/point?  Besides giving us the option of using points through RCI, the conversion fee also would give us access to internal exchanges in a vacation club that has about 30 resorts in its system.  We do not golf or ski, however, so only a few of the 30 resorts would be of interest to us.  We probably would want to use the points through RCI at least half of the time.

Is there a better way to spend that money to make our current property more flexible?  How does PFD work?  I really don't know enough about it to know whether that is a reasonable alternative.  I'm not sure I want to take on another MF.

Finally, should I even bother pursuing RCI points at any price?  Points seem to be more flexible than my fixed week, but I have read so many negative comments about RCI that I wonder whether I should get further into that system at all.

Thanks for advice.

Bonnie


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## brucecz (Sep 2, 2006)

Bonnie, IMHO for various reasons the weeks owners of weeks like yours are having to deal with less availabily than a few years ago.

If you do not want to take on another maintenance fee I can understand that.

But I know for  sure if you sold your unit for ever you could can ridding your self of those MF's you could then buy a RCI Points resort with about the same amount of points for a fair amount less than that $4,335 converstion fee. 

I am not talking about my ownerships. Seeing that I am slow typer  feel free to give me a call and I would be gald to point several areas that should lower your cost for points.

Check the RCI sticky's on this page in regards to what 64,000 RCI Points can get you. 

If you have a particular resort, etc in mind post that here and you should be able to get a answer.


Bruce


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## reddiablosv (Sep 2, 2006)

With $4335 and the proceeds from the sale of your current weeks, you could buy at least two floating weeks that would allow you to travel during school holidays.  Even with RCI points you will still be exchanging!  Owners keep the majority of the prime vacation weeks.  As an exchanger you will be competing with RCI's raiding of exchange inventory for rentals and other exchangers for few that are deposited for exchange. Why throw good money after bad. IMHO Ben.


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## BillR (Sep 2, 2006)

tartanwood said:
			
		

> We are debating whether or not to convert our fixed week to points.  Am I using your formula correctly?
> 
> Cost of converting our fixed week to 64,000 RCI points = $4235
> 
> ...


NOT BAD - BUT . . . YOUR RESORT IS OVERCHARGING YOU.  PERIOD!  THEY HAVE NO COST - ALL PROFIT TO THEM FOR THE "PRIVILEGE".   IF I WERE YOU I WOULD GET CONVERSION FROM ANOTHER SOURCE AND THEN ADD YOUR POINTS WITH THE NEW COMPANY.


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## tartanwood (Sep 3, 2006)

Bill Riney said:
			
		

> NOT BAD - BUT . . . YOUR RESORT IS OVERCHARGING YOU.  PERIOD!  THEY HAVE NO COST - ALL PROFIT TO THEM FOR THE "PRIVILEGE".   IF I WERE YOU I WOULD GET CONVERSION FROM ANOTHER SOURCE AND THEN ADD YOUR POINTS WITH THE NEW COMPANY.




To be fair, I should point out again that the $4235 conversion fee is not just for the RCI points.  It also covers enrollment in a vacation club that has 32 resorts in its system.  Currently I have just one fixed week to use.  Through the vacation club, we could take advantage of more flexible internal exchanges or use RCI points when we want to go outside the system.

Even though the fee is for more than just points, it still seems too high to me.  About this time every year I find myself reviewing all my options.  Talking to the resort sales manager for a long time last evening had my head spinning.  Posting here and getting input from everyone has helped me clarify the issues.  

Based on everyone's comments, I don't think I should do this if my primary purpose is to obtain RCI points.  This deal only makes sense if I want to gain the benefits of the vacation club and its internal exchanges.  That actually would be appealing to me if I did not already own another property in Mexico where many of the vacation club resorts are located.

At this time, I think that I probably will not invest any more money in this property.  I will either keep it for trading as I have been doing (maybe DAE will come through with something good!), or I will try to sell it.  My sale price plus the cost of conversion might be just right for a buyer who really wants to get into this particular vacation club and its 32 resorts.  

Thank you to everyone who helped me consider this decision with fresh insight.

Bonnie


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## BillR (Sep 3, 2006)

Bonnie, It WOULD be a good investment if you could find a base resort that would sell you a conversion package.  You will get almost nothing if you sell your property.  Your points value with your current property is $ .0078/point.

There is property out on the market which you can get the Conversion Base and a few more points for less than .015/point including ALL charges. That would make your overall point base $ .092/point (approximately) which is EXCELLENT.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 3, 2006)

tartanwood said:
			
		

> We are debating whether or not to convert our fixed week to points.  Am I using your formula correctly?
> 
> Cost of converting our fixed week to 64,000 RCI points = $4235
> 
> ...



This is a VERY VERY BAD deal.  You can buy 64000 points already converted for less than $.04/point.  That would be a cost of about $2500.  You would be better off giving away your current week and buying already converted points at $.04/point.  

The formula you are using excludes the purchase price of your week.  Using Bill's formula, you also need to add in 1/15 of the purchase price of the week.

DO NOT DO THIS CONVERSION.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 3, 2006)

Bill Riney said:
			
		

> Bonnie, It WOULD be a good investment if you could find a base resort that would sell you a conversion package.  You will get almost nothing if you sell your property.  Your points value with your current property is $ .0078/point.
> 
> There is property out on the market which you can get the Conversion Base and a few more points for less than .015/point including ALL charges. That would make your overall point base $ .092/point (approximately) which is EXCELLENT.



Bill,

You are assuming that her weeks were acquired for free.  You forgot to tell her to include the cost of her week into that calculation.

This one of the worst deals in all of timesharing outside of buying directly from a non-brand resort developer.

In general, I recommend that weeks should only be converted if they were cheap ($.04/point), have a great $MF/RCI point ratio (less than $.008/rci point) and the conversion cost is less than $500/week.


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## tartanwood (Sep 3, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Bill,
> 
> You are assuming that her weeks were acquired for free.  You forgot to tell her to include the cost of her week into that calculation.
> 
> ...




I acquired this property several years ago.  That money is long gone and I am not ever going to see it again, certainly not if I give the property away or sell it cheaply.

Rather than include that original amount in my calculations, I would like to focus on my costs from this point forward.

I consider the conversion fee of $4235 as the cost of replacing my fixed week with a "new-to-me" vacation club.  I realize that the up-front cost would be $.15/point rather than your recommended $.04/point; but I would be getting more than just RCI points.  I would gain access to internal exchanges in 32 resorts rather than be limited to just my single fixed week. 

The upfront cost of acquiring this "new" package is higher than you recommend, but ongoing costs fall within your definition of a great MF/RCI points ratio of less than $.008/rci point.  My ongoing costs would come out to about $.0078/point per year based on MF of $500 for 64,000 RCI points.

If I add in 1/15 of my cost for acquiring this "new" package ($4235 divided by 15 = 282), I then come up with $.012 as the yearly cost.  Again, I realize this is higher than you recommend, but I would be getting more than just points and I would not have the additional expense/hassle of selling what I already own and then purchasing something new.  

If I were starting from scratch, I would do something very different, but given the fact that I already own the property, is this really such a bad deal?  

I wouldn't do it just for the RCI points, but I am already paying $500 MF for a fixed week that trades so-so.  For an additional $282 per year (cost spread over 15 years) I would gain more flexibility in terms of time and location within the RVC system or 64,000 RCI points to use outside the system.


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## BillR (Sep 3, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> This is a VERY VERY BAD deal.  You can buy 64000 points already converted for less than $.04/point.  That would be a cost of about $2500.  You would be better off giving away your current week and buying already converted points at $.04/point.
> 
> The formula you are using excludes the purchase price of your week.  Using Bill's formula, you also need to add in 1/15 of the purchase price of the week.
> 
> DO NOT DO THIS CONVERSION.


The LOWEST price per point on Ebay since the first of the year is $ .0092 based on my conversion formula - including the purchase price.  The average is about .017 including the purchase price.  Both of these figures are substantially less than  $ .04/point.  Remember that this unit is paid for and the value is but a fraction of their original cost.  To keep this for points after attaining membership is a GREAT DEAL.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 3, 2006)

Bill Riney said:
			
		

> I would like to see your math.  The LOWEST price per point on Ebay since the first of the year is $ .0092 based on my conversion formula - INCLUDING THE PURCHASE PRICE.  The average is about .017 INCLUDING THE PURCHASE PRICE.  Both of these figures are substantially less than  $ .04/point.  My figures HAVE to INCLUDE an amortized purchase price with the MF to be accurate.   I BELIEVE MY FORMULA TO BE ACCURATE!



You did not include the purchase price of the fixed weeks in your calculation for the 64000 point conversion.  All you counted was the conversion fees.

When you buy a fixed or flex week on eBay for conversion into RCI points, your cost basis must include the purchase price, the closing costs and the conversion fees in order for it to be a meaningful calculation for comparison purposes.  You forgot to include the purchase price and closing costs in your recommendation.

If you aren't going to include purchase price and closing costs, you can get RCI Points for a $MF/RCI point of less thean $.0050.  I do it regularly.

And, eBay isn't the cheapest place to get RCI Points.  You can get them cheaper in other places.

Lastly, I do not like the 15 year amortization model.  I prefer a 5 year (or less) holding period with an estimate of the residual value and a cost of capital.  That is more likely to get your real cost per point.  

Using this model, I concluded that the optimal length of ownership is less than a year.  You simply buy a unit below its market price and sell it in a year or less for more than you paid for it.  So, your cost per point becomes negative giving you free vacations.  If you use a 15 year amortization model, you miss a lot of great opportunities.


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## BillR (Sep 3, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Bill,
> 
> You are assuming that her weeks were acquired for free.  You forgot to tell her to include the cost of her week into that calculation.
> 
> ...


In a sense, the week is free.   The unit is paid for and is probably worth a fraction of what they paid.  If she can get a week for $ .04 with $ .01 MF, then they would be getting their original investment for $500.00/year for 64,000 points - $ .0078/point - that is a good deal.


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## tartanwood (Sep 3, 2006)

Bill Riney said:
			
		

> In a sense, the week is free.   The unit is paid for and is probably worth a fraction of what they paid.  If she can get a week for $ .04 with $ .01 MF, then they would be getting their original investment for $500.00/year for 64,000 points - $ .0078/point - that is a good deal.




To help me understand the numbers better, let me start over as if this were a new purchase.  My past investment is gone, so let's not include that in the equation as I try to figure out how to proceed from this point forward.

It's as if I were buying a new platinum level membership in Raintree Vacation Club for $4235.  I keep my original deed and still pay my maintenace fees to my home resort, about $500 per year.

For the price of $4235, I could use the new membership to trade internally at 30+ locations in the US and Mexico.  Compared to my current fixed week, I would gain a lot of flexibility for trades in terms of time and location within the RVC system.  If I wanted to go outside the RVC system, I would have 64,000 RCI points to use each year.  Right now I can never use my own fixed week and I am limited to weeks trades through RCI or DAE.  

So, treating this as if it were a new purchase, is this a resonable deal?

Up front cost of $4235 for 64,000 RCI points = about $.066/RCI point

Ongoing annual cost of $500 MF  = $.0078/RCI point

Ongoing cost including purchase price of $4235 spread over 15 years =  $.012/point

If I spread the purchase price over just 5 years, then it would be $.021/point for the first five years and then back down to $.0078 after that.

As I said before, I probably would not choose this deal if I were starting from scratch, but is this a reasonable way to move forward to get more use out of the property I already own.


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## JudyS (Sep 3, 2006)

Spence... said:
			
		

> I'm looking for help in pricing or what to expect for a couple of US timeshares that are RCI points.  Their point values are as follows:
> *28,500 RCI points w/MF $418
> 33,500 RCI points w/MF $495*...


Spence, if those are your weeks, will they trade in something other than RCI Points?  I'm wondering if you could get a better value for them by playing up their value in some other exchange program. 

I have found it to be pretty much impossible to use my converted RCI Points units in any other program other than RCI Points, however, the resort management company (VRI) said they would be happy to cancel my RCI Points conversion without waiting for the time of my Points contract to be up.  (RCI Points contracts are usually for 3 years, but in my case, they were for 6 years becaus emy suage was every-other-year.)  I declined the offer to pull my contracts out of RCI Points, but it does seem doable.


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## JudyS (Sep 3, 2006)

tartanwood said:
			
		

> To help me understand the numbers better, let me start over as if this were a new purchase.  My past investment is gone, so let's not include that in the equation as I try to figure out how to proceed from this point forward....
> 
> For the price of $4235, I could use the new membership to trade internally at 30+ locations in the US and Mexico.  Compared to my current fixed week, I would gain a lot of flexibility for trades in terms of time and location within the RVC system.  If I wanted to go outside the RVC system, I would have 64,000 RCI points to use each year.....



Boonie, assuming that your past investment is gone only makes sense if your week if worth *nothing* on the resale market.  I know you said it probably wouldn't go for much resale, but it might go for something. 

As for your general questions regarding difficulties in using RCI Points, I have had a lot of frustration with them, but mostly it involved trying to rent my converted weeks, or depositing my converted weeks into another exchange company (I couldn't do either.)  I also had a hassle the last time I tried reserving my unit for my own use, but this seemed to be the resort's fault.  When it comes to actually using my RCI Points for exchanges, it's been fine. 

You can find out how many Points you would need for the vacations that you want by going to:  http://www.rci.com/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_rdMain for Points resorts, and http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf for the "generic" crossover grid for RCI Weeks resorts. 

Availability via RCI Points in the Northeast in summer would probably be good.  If your Points contract had the VRI Home Group Reservation Window, it might be excellent, assuming you are willing to reserve 11 months out.

I wouldn't pay the $4235 conversion fee.  Even if Raintree's internal exchange program is very good, that's still excessive for a conversion fee.  I wouldn't trust any timeshare system that charged so much for conversions -- they might try to rip you off in other ways.


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## Quickdraw (Oct 7, 2006)

I have just sold my Fairfield points week and I'm very interested in trying RCI points.  I have a couple of questions after reading this thread.

What would be the best direction for me to go?

Should I look to buy into a RCI points resort (I'll take any direction as to which is best) or should I work with my brother  who already has an RCI points resort and just buy a couple fixed weeks and convert them on his account?

Does this make sense or not?

I'm not new to the points world, but I am new to RCI points and the where and how of getting the best buy.

Thanks,

Paul


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