# Mayan Resorts = TIMESHARE RIPOFF



## duane (Dec 5, 2010)

Words of Warning.  Don't attend a timeshare presentation at the Mayan Resorts unless you are sure you can say NO and walk out of their scam
presentation!

You would think that with their beautiful resorts that Groupo Mayan would not allow the sales people (if you can call them that) to resort to the scam tactits they use to sell a timeshare. Apparently they don't care about negative impact on the Mayan image.


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## mikenk (Dec 5, 2010)

Yep, the Grand Mayan high pressure sales tactics are well documented, admonished, and discussed on this board. You are right, unless you are very well prepared or can say no and obviously mean it, stay away from the presentation and just enjoy the resorts.

Mike


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## pittle (Dec 5, 2010)

Mike is right.  Don't go to the presentation for any amount of $$$ up front if you cannot say no! (One guy offered us $500 USD in PV last month to go for the Grand Bliss presentation.) This advice is just not for Grupo Mayan, but for *all *timeshare presentations.  

We recently went to an owner's update at the Buganvilias and of course they wanted to take our 3 weeks that will to expire in 6 years and convert them to one 2-bedroom beach-front week. We said no because we did not want to spend thousands of dollars more even though we did want to have fewer timeshare weeks. They were also pushing the HSI bigtime and telling how we could just let them reimburse us for full m/f and we would not have to worry about having too many weeks.   Later in the week (while sitting on the beachfront at the Buganvilias), we bought an awesome 2-bedroom unit at the resort on eBay for $5.50, including transfer fees and closing costs!  We love the Buganvilas, but will let the 1-bedroom units expire and enjoy our newly acquired 2-bedroom unit for the next 20 years.    

My husband tells the guys that try to get us to go for presentations that we have agreed to not take any more presentations.  Then they start working on me and I tell them that I will only go for 300,000 pesos because that is what it would cost me to purchase a unit.  I have not had any of them choose to do that.


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## pjrose (Dec 5, 2010)

pittle said:


> Mike is right.  Don't go to the presentation for any amount of $$$ up front if you cannot say no! (One guy offered us $500 USD in PV last month to go for the Grand Bliss presentation.) This advice is just not for Grupo Mayan, but for *all *timeshare presentations.
> 
> . . .



Not all resorts use their high pressure tactics.


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## mikenk (Dec 5, 2010)

pjrose said:


> Not all resorts use their high pressure tactics.



True - but NO still works. You just have to be willing to say it.


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## pjrose (Dec 5, 2010)

mikenk said:


> True - but NO still works. You just have to be willing to say it.



Right, but my point was that you don't always have to say NO; in cases where the salespeople aren't so darn pushy, you can politely say "no thank you".

Either way, be prepared to answer in the negative, don't take your checkbook, don't take your credit cards, and don't sign anything unless you have had a chance to take it back and review everything and make sure all promises are in writing.  But we already know that!


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## duane (Dec 5, 2010)

*Mayan Scam*



pjrose said:


> Right, but my point was that you don't always have to say NO; in cases where the salespeople aren't so darn pushy, you can politely say "no thank you".
> 
> Either way, be prepared to answer in the negative, don't take your checkbook, don't take your credit cards, and don't sign anything unless you have had a chance to take it back and review everything and make sure all promises are in writing.  But we already know that!



So, what's your point.  Why would you go to a ripoff presentation.


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## pjrose (Dec 6, 2010)

duane said:


> So, what's your point.  Why would you go to a ripoff presentation.



My point is that not all presentations are ripoffs.  Buying from the developer is going to be more expensive, yes, but not all developers/salespeople lie.  Some contracts are straight forward and easy to read, and at some resorts they do not make all sorts of promises that then never appear on the contract and never materialize.  In some cases you can go to a presentation and they will show you weeks that have been defaulted on that cost far less.  Some salespeople will tell you about TUG and eBay.  The places that do lie and make false promises give a bad name to timeshare presentations in general.


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## pittle (Dec 6, 2010)

pjrose said:


> My point is that not all presentations are ripoffs.  Buying from the developer is going to be more expensive, yes, but not all developers/salespeople lie.  Some contracts are straight forward and easy to read, and at some resorts they do not make all sorts of promises that then never appear on the contract and never materialize.  In some cases you can go to a presentation and they will show you weeks that have been defaulted on that cost far less.  Some salespeople will tell you about TUG and eBay.  The places that do lie and make false promises give a bad name to timeshare presentations in general.



The Grupo Mayan contracts are easy to read too.  You just have to make sure that you READ them before signing and if you were promised anything, make sure that is actually in the contract or added on an Addendum page.  We purchased from them (a unit that had been turned in) and then upgraded from a Sea Garden to Mayan Palace the next year.  We LOVE these resorts and discovered eBay resales and added several weeks to our timeshare "collection".  We then used some of the resale weeks to upgrade to Grand Mayan and that was painless and we got everything they promised in writing.  

We just know that when we go, they will want more $ for the newest and best product - kind of like when you want to buy a new car and have a used one to trade in.  You must know how much you are willing to spend and be willing to say no, thank you, and walk away.  We always go in with a $ amount that we have agreed on with a timeshare or a car and do not deviate from that amount.


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## pjrose (Dec 6, 2010)

Another difference I've heard - and correct me if I'm wrong - is that at Grupo Mayan and perhaps other places the price and promises are variable.  The price comes down the more people you talk to and longer you stay, and the promises grow the more you resist.  

At other places with which I am familiar, prices are fixed, and there are no extras beyond what's in the same contract that everyone gets 

That makes it easier, as the terms are the same for everyone.


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## ran-ran (Dec 6, 2010)

I stayed with friends, whom own two weeks at the Grand Mayan Cabos starting on November 13, 2010 and I have to say that the resort is spectacular with customer service that will amaze you.

My friends wanted to show me the new unit for sale, but refused to allow me to go through a long pitch. However, if you have the opportunity to stay there, do go, it is a great resort.


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## mikenk (Dec 6, 2010)

pjrose said:


> Another difference I've heard - and correct me if I'm wrong - is that at Grupo Mayan and perhaps other places the price and promises are variable.  The price comes down the more people you talk to and longer you stay, and the promises grow the more you resist.
> 
> .



You heard right. It is like buying a new car - all about negotiation. The resulting contracts vary broadly, especially when in the upgrade mode. If this is not your cup of tea, then avoid the Grupo mayan presentations like the plague. However, if it is, these can be great fun and challenging to get what you want. Remember, you hold the advantage for five days, what they write into the contract is binding on them; you have five days to revise or walk. You really need to know the game going in or don't go in.

BTW, the real negotiations are not with the contracted high pressure guys, it is with contract representatives of the company - very reasonable folks in my experience. My upgrade to the Grand Luxxe took four months of email negotiation.  

Mike


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## John Cummings (Dec 6, 2010)

I won't add anything to the sales presentation discussion as we never do any when we go to the Grand Mayans. We have exchanged into the Grand Mayans for 10 weeks at Riviera Maya and Nuevo Vallarta. The one thing I will say is that they have never pestered us to go to a sales presentation. After we check-in we just tell the sales folks that we don't do presentations and that is it. They never bother us anymore. In fact the last time we were there, they recognized that we had been there several times and just noted that we don't participate.

We have stayed at other Mexican resorts where we were hounded during the whole week we were there. When we stayed at the Royal Mayan, this guy followed us around like a puppy dog for 5 days before he gave up. He claimed that he was our personal concierge but was really just a salesman. He was from Canada and had absolutely no knowledge of anything around the area which a concierge would know.

The Grand Mayans are awesome resorts and are our favorites by far. Their service is superb.


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## Grand Vic (Dec 6, 2010)

We bought Grand Mayan in 2007 and traded another property for an upgrade.  We paid Holiday Transfers $725.00 to transfer the property to the Grand Mayan, and sent our original paperwork which was requested by Holiday Transfers.  We just got a collection notice in the mail saying we owed back maintenance fees for the resort that was supposedly transferred to the Grand Mayan.  I contacted the Grand Mayan and they said that unfortunately Holiday Transfers was no longer in business and we will now have to pay another transfer company to accomplish our transfer.  :annoyed:


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah - Holiday Group has gone bankrupt.


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## Grupo Mayan (Dec 6, 2010)

*We Do Care*

Dear Duane and other Bloggers on this forum, 

Monitoring the entire internet is an impossible task for anyone. However, we are lucky enough to have our satisfied and happy members alert us of any information posted online. 

We are glad we found your posts. Please accept our sincere apology for what allegedly is a failure on our part to clearly communicate the terms and conditions associated with accepting an invitation to our sales presentation. Although, the information is clear in the signed documents, we continue to work towards an even clearer communication. Your feedback is very important to us and we appreciate all the kind words that others have posted regarding the properties. 

As one of the most reputable vacation club sellers and top beach resort developers in the world, we would like to invite you to continue this dialogue by emailing us at grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com, so that we can work on improving the sales process. 

Our goal is to address all concerns, as our focus is to preserve top customer service.

Thank you for your time. 

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


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## pianodinosaur (Dec 6, 2010)

The Grand Mayans are excellent resorts. We have enjoyed our experience with the Grand Mayans.  They do have a high pressure sales group and I would not attend another sales presentation.


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## duane (Dec 6, 2010)

*your cartoon*



pianodinosaur said:


> The Grand Mayans are excellent resorts. We have enjoyed our experience with the Grand Mayans.  They do have a high pressure sales group and I would not attend another sales presentation.



That cartoon is very funny!

Yes, they do have beautiful resorts - I've been to most of them. 
Guess I was lucky, since the Grand Mayan Nuevo presentation was the first one I'd gone to. Sales rep couldn't believe it.


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## pjrose (Dec 6, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Yeah - Holiday Group has gone bankrupt.



Wow.  I bought a TS from them a few years ago at a fair price.   Good thing the transaction has been completed for awhile!


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2010)

More info. about Holiday Group - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131629&highlight=holiday+group


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## MuranoJo (Dec 6, 2010)

Grupo Mayan said:


> Dear Duane and other Bloggers on this forum,
> 
> Monitoring the entire internet is an impossible task for anyone. However, we are lucky enough to have our satisfied and happy members alert us of any information posted online.
> 
> ...



Welcome, Rose--I am glad to see you here and inviting feedback.  I am sure many TUGgers and TUG visitors will have feedback for you regarding the sales process.


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## duane (Dec 7, 2010)

*Mayan timeshare*



duane said:


> Words of Warning.  Don't attend a timeshare presentation at the Mayan Resorts unless you are sure you can say NO and walk out of their scam
> presentation!
> 
> You would think that with their beautiful resorts that Groupo Mayan would not allow the sales people (if you can call them that) to resort to the scam tactits they use to sell a timeshare. Apparently they don't care about negative impact on the Mayan image.



I wish to retract this statement about the Mayan Resorts.  They care very much about their image & guests and have worked with me to resolve my issue.


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## ran-ran (Dec 7, 2010)

So what did the Mayans do for you that resolved your issue?


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## Helene4 (Dec 9, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> When we stayed at the Royal Mayan, this guy followed us around like a puppy dog for 5 days before he gave up. He claimed that he was our personal concierge but was really just a salesman.




Last year Mexicana lost my husbands luggage and then sent it to the wrong hotel and wrong person in Cancun while we were in Playa at the Royal Haciendas. Our "personal concierge" went above and beyond the call of duty to rectify the situation, which he ultimately did do. He was considerate, helpful and made a bad situation generally bearable. If it wasn't for our "personal concierge" my husbands things might still be in Cancun! He intervened with Mexicana, contacted friends in Cancun and went out of his way (late at night) to get our things back to us so that we might enjoy the balance of our vacation. OH YEAH! He even lent me money to buy a CD from Duran (the musician who plays at the Royals) until I could go back to my room after beaching it all day! NOW THAT'S SERVICE


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## Tropical lady (Dec 13, 2010)

*welcome Karen Rose!!*

I am glad to see a post from Grupo Mayan commenting that these posts are read.  Those of us who own a t/s with Grupo Mayan and have been through the sales presentations are familiar with the process.  And while we have recognized that some buyers have been mislead, we are disheartened to see negative posts about sales which diminishes the perceived quality of these wonderful resorts.  It seems that many either have buyer's remorse or don't read the contracts until they get home.  I can only speak for myself, but I am frustrated qualifying a "scam" accusation or recommending communication with member services to those who regret the purchase, but don't take ownership for their decision.  On the other side, Grupo Mayan has a wonderful product that sells itself so sales tactics need to be reviewed.
Please keep forum reviews in your schedule.        Thank you !!


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## ondeadlin (Dec 13, 2010)

Ms. Rose,

I want you to know that I'm a multiple week timeshare owner and will never even consider exchanging into any of the Mayan properties, let alone buying there, until you clean up your reputation for high-pressure sales tactics. Your company has complaints on virtually every Internet site that deals with customer complaints and is red-listed with multiple state Better Business Bureaus. That's not a coincidence or a matter of a few dissatisfied customers, it's the result of a deliberate strategy to pursue sales in a certain way.

Your appearance here is hopefully a start in that direction.

Given the loyalty of many of your customers here, your sales approach seems unnecessary, unfortunate, and likely doing more harm than good.

Jim


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## John Cummings (Dec 13, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> Rose,
> 
> I want you to know that I'm a multiple week timeshare owner and will never even consider exchanging into any of the Mayan properties, let alone buying there, until you clean up your reputation for high-pressure sales tactics...Jim



You are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are staying away from a great resort just because of their sales presentations. The simple solution is don't attend a sales presentation. There is no pressure for you to attend. We have spent 10 weeks at the Grand Mayans in Riviera Maya and Nuevo Vallarta all on exchanges with SFX. We have never attended a sales presentation nor been pressured to do so.

It is your decision to do what you want but you are avoiding what I consider to be the best timeshare resorts for reasons that don't affect you.


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## pjrose (Dec 13, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> Ms. Rose,
> 
> I want you to know . . .
> 
> Jim



I hope people know this was for Karen Rose, supposedly of Grupo Mayan, not yours truly PJRose!

(And come to think of it, did anyone try to verify if Karen Rose really is part of Grupo Mayan?)


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## siesta (Dec 13, 2010)

might be a sales weasel, and the customer service # provided may very well be to the sales dept. to further attempt the hard sell 

just kidding, i'd like to believe it is truly customer service.  but just because sales department talks out one side of its mouth, and she speaks out the other side, doesn't excuse their tactics.  Are the resorts nice? sure.  But I for one feel they are out of the way from where I'd prefer to be, for example GM in cabo is in san jose the quieter of the two sides.  Riviera Maya, in playa away from cancun hotel district.  Puerto Vallarta? all the way in nuevo vallarta away from the action. This is what causes me to choose other resorts, not their sales weasels being the most notorious in the biz.


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## osloboso (Dec 13, 2010)

siesta said:


> might be a sales weasel, and the customer service # provided may very well be to the sales dept. to further attempt the hard sell
> 
> just kidding, i'd like to believe it is truly customer service.  but just because sales department talks out one side of its mouth, and she speaks out the other side, doesn't excuse their tactics.  Are the resorts nice? sure.  But I for one feel they are out of the way from where I'd prefer to be, for example GM in cabo is in san jose the quieter of the two sides.  Riviera Maya, in playa away from cancun hotel district.  Puerto Vallarta? all the way in nuevo vallarta away from the action. This is what causes me to choose other resorts, not their sales weasels being the most notorious in the biz.




What happened to the post from Mayan Resorts? It just disappeared.  Anyway, I posted my experience on June 24 of this year. It was pretty bad, they told me all kind of lies.  Luckily, I read the contract and found that nothing they were promsing was in the contract.  

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=545241&highlight=osloboso#post545241


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## osloboso (Dec 13, 2010)

osloboso said:


> What happened to the post from Mayan Resorts? It just disappeared.  Anyway, I posted my experience on June 24 of this year. It was pretty bad, they told me all kind of lies.  Luckily, I read the contract and found that nothing they were promsing was in the contract.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=545241&highlight=osloboso#post545241



Wrong post above,sorry. I could not find my post anywhere.  Anyway, I agree that people have to be really careful with Mayan Group.  Best advice is not to attend those presentations, and if you do, read everything before signing!


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## John Cummings (Dec 13, 2010)

siesta said:


> might be a sales weasel, and the customer service # provided may very well be to the sales dept. to further attempt the hard sell
> 
> just kidding, i'd like to believe it is truly customer service.  but just because sales department talks out one side of its mouth, and she speaks out the other side, doesn't excuse their tactics.  Are the resorts nice? sure.  But I for one feel they are out of the way from where I'd prefer to be, for example GM in cabo is in san jose the quieter of the two sides.  Riviera Maya, in playa away from cancun hotel district.  Puerto Vallarta? all the way in nuevo vallarta away from the action. This is what causes me to choose other resorts, not their sales weasels being the most notorious in the biz.



It takes all kinds to make a world. The locations of the Grand Mayans is a big plus for us. We don't like Cancun and would much rather be in Nuevo Vallarta than Puerto Vallarta. Same goes for Cabo vs San Jose. We have stayed in all the locations at various resorts.


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## osloboso (Dec 13, 2010)

Grupo Mayan said:


> Dear Duane and other Bloggers on this forum,
> 
> Monitoring the entire internet is an impossible task for anyone. However, we are lucky enough to have our satisfied and happy members alert us of any information posted online.
> 
> ...




Here is my experience with your presentations

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=951280#post951280


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## DeniseM (Dec 13, 2010)

osloboso said:


> Wrong post above,sorry. I could not find my post anywhere.



To find your own posts, click on "Quick Links" and then "Your Posts" or "Your Threads" - in the blue bar at the top of the page.


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## Tropical lady (Dec 13, 2010)

John, you could not have stated it any better as we enjoy the same locations.  The locations are exactly where we want to vacation....put me in Playa, San Jose, and Nuevo and others can have Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, and Cabo.  Well, they are ok to pass through, to see, and then go on.
Now for those clamoring to speak of scams and sales tactics, you have been given a direct link to address those issues.  Again, thank you Karen Rose!!


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## pjrose (Dec 13, 2010)

osloboso said:


> What happened to the post from Mayan Resorts? It just disappeared.  Anyway, I posted my experience on June 24 of this year. It was pretty bad, they told me all kind of lies.  Luckily, I read the contract and found that nothing they were promsing was in the contract.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=545241&highlight=osloboso#post545241



The post that is supposedly from Mayan is #16 in this thread, or you can read it here:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1024643&postcount=16


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## billymach4 (Dec 14, 2010)

*Very Suspicious ???*

OK Duane the OP comes on the scene here to trash the Grupo Mayan because he got ripped off from yet another Mexican Timeshare presentation. We all know this happens every day to some poor unsuspecting soul, regardless of the quality of the resort. 

The the OP Does a 180 degree change of heart, at about the same time the Rose of Mayan appears on the scene. 

I would like to say I don't smell anything but a Rose here! In fact it stinks like a rotting fish.

I suspect the Rose of Mayan black mailed the OP into posting a Rosy picture to support the Rose of Mayan's fishy reply here. Perhaps this ruse will help the OP get some sort of settlement from the Mexican Timeshare experience. For the OP's sake I hope Duane does get his money back.

I needed to post this because I have heard that the Mexican TS sales people often pressure the victims to rescind their negative statements on the internet. They use this tactic in order to further raise the hopes of the victims of getting a refund. The Mexican Timeshare sales snakes then appear to be the good guys.

This is just a continuation of the vicious cycle!


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## ondeadlin (Dec 14, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> You are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are staying away from a great resort just because of their sales presentations. The simple solution is don't attend a sales presentation. There is no pressure for you to attend. We have spent 10 weeks at the Grand Mayans in Riviera Maya and Nuevo Vallarta all on exchanges with SFX. We have never attended a sales presentation nor been pressured to do so.
> 
> It is your decision to do what you want but you are avoiding what I consider to be the best timeshare resorts for reasons that don't affect you.



John,

We all have choices in how we spend our money. I try not to support companies that are greatly out of step with my own values. There's a landscaping company in my area, for instance, that does great work, but I know they use illegal day laborers. I wouldn't use them because of that. Why? Because I have friends who do landscaping and this kind of illegal conduct hurts their businesses. Do they do great work? Sure, but whatever I gained from using them would be gained by hurting someone else in some small way. Same thing with trading in - the entire system starts with buyers being scammed and abused, so by using the property my enjoyment stems in some way from endorsing the scamming and abusing. Avoiding the Mayans is an obvious extension of my own values and I don't look at it as any sort of a sacrifice to avoid them - there are a ton of great vacation options out there.

Everybody's free to make their own choice. That's the great thing about the free market.

Jim


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## ran-ran (Dec 14, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> John,
> 
> We all have choices in how we spend our money. I try not to support companies that are greatly out of step with my own values. There's a landscaping company in my area, for instance, that does great work, but I know they use illegal day laborers. I wouldn't use them because of that. Why? Because I have friends who do landscaping and this kind of illegal conduct hurts their businesses. Do they do great work? Sure, but whatever I gained from using them would be gained by hurting someone else in some small way. Same thing with trading in - the entire system starts with buyers being scammed and abused, so by using the property my enjoyment stems in some way from endorsing the scamming and abusing. Avoiding the Mayans is an obvious extension of my own values and I don't look at it as any sort of a sacrifice to avoid them - there are a ton of great vacation options out there.
> 
> ...



You are so right that we all have choices and that is what is so important to everything working in harmony. When I read your comment it reminded me of a topic, similar to this, regarding people making choices based on their own beliefs. To each their own.

http://obsthisland.blogspot.com/2010/08/charlotte-resident-why-i-am-boycotting.html


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## pittle (Dec 14, 2010)

pjrose said:


> I hope people know this was for Karen Rose, supposedly of Grupo Mayan, not yours truly PJRose!
> 
> (And come to think of it, did anyone try to verify if Karen Rose really is part of Grupo Mayan?)



I do not know if Karen Rose is legit in customer service, but do know that there is a Blog on the new Vida Vacation Club (Grupo Mayan) site which has contact ____ @grupovidanta.com listed. So, the grupovidanta.com is legit.  But, even the sales people could have an email address with grupovidanta.com.


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## california-bighorn (Dec 14, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> John,
> 
> We all have choices in how we spend our money. I try not to support companies that are greatly out of step with my own values. There's a landscaping company in my area, for instance, that does great work, but I know they use illegal day laborers. I wouldn't use them because of that. Why? Because I have friends who do landscaping and this kind of illegal conduct hurts their businesses. Do they do great work? Sure, but whatever I gained from using them would be gained by hurting someone else in some small way. Same thing with trading in - the entire system starts with buyers being scammed and abused, so by using the property my enjoyment stems in some way from endorsing the scamming and abusing. Avoiding the Mayans is an obvious extension of my own values and I don't look at it as any sort of a sacrifice to avoid them - there are a ton of great vacation options out there.
> 
> ...



Jim
I can understand your position on this matter of dealing with companies that don't fit your values.  Although the job senerio you gave is a much stronger argument for this position then the one I'm about to give, it shows my agreement with your beliefs. We sold a timeshare we owned in Puerto Vallarta because even though it was beautiful and we had many great vacations there, I always left with a bad taste in my mouth due to their attempts to "strong arm" current members with threats that their memberships would become worthless unless they spent thousands more to "upgrade".  
And years ago we went though the MP presentation.  Caught them in sooooo many lies, yet they just continued to pour it on.  But, we have exchanged/rented into the MP resorts a couple of times because we couldn't find anything else in that area we wanted at that time.  We just know to stay clear of anything that could turn into anything about buying with them.  When we checked in to the Grand Mayan this year and they tried to get us signed up for a "Welcome Presentation" and gifts, I just laughed and told them "no thank you" very strongly and the only other contact was a voice message left for us that we didn't return.


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## John Cummings (Dec 14, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> John,
> 
> We all have choices in how we spend our money. I try not to support companies that are greatly out of step with my own values. There's a landscaping company in my area, for instance, that does great work, but I know they use illegal day laborers. I wouldn't use them because of that. Why? Because I have friends who do landscaping and this kind of illegal conduct hurts their businesses. Do they do great work? Sure, but whatever I gained from using them would be gained by hurting someone else in some small way. Same thing with trading in - the entire system starts with buyers being scammed and abused, so by using the property my enjoyment stems in some way from endorsing the scamming and abusing. Avoiding the Mayans is an obvious extension of my own values and I don't look at it as any sort of a sacrifice to avoid them - there are a ton of great vacation options out there.
> 
> ...



I certainly don't disagree with you if that is important to you. However, bear in mind that those type of sales practices are very common at many Mexican timeshares because they can get away with it.


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## siesta (Dec 14, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> I certainly don't disagree with you if that is important to you. However, bear in mind that those type of sales practices are very common at many Mexican timeshares because they can get away with it.


 I wouldn't just say mexican timeshares.  Think wyndham and westgate.


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## John Cummings (Dec 14, 2010)

siesta said:


> I wouldn't just say mexican timeshares.  Think wyndham and westgate.



I don't know about Wyndham and Westgate's sales practices. I have stayed at Wyndham's resorts on exchanges but that was it. It is true that there is more latitude in Mexico for fraudulent practices.


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## mikenk (Dec 14, 2010)

I respect everyone's decision as to what business they choose to ban based on their personal ethics. However, it is still hard for me sometimes to see where people choose to draw the line. Having experienced personally, in depth, the Grupo Mayan processes and resorts, the following are things I know.

1) The salesmen lie - but realistically, my experience is that almost all timeshare salesmen everywhere lie and to the same degree. One could easily draw the ethics line at all timeshares that sell retail. Selling a product that has no value for high cost is a scam in Mexico or the USA.

2) The GM salesmen are more high pressure than most. True, but it is easy to defeat if prepared, and easier to defeat if you just don't attend. My son had a wedding there a couple of years ago; I requested none of the 40 guests be offered or bothered by sales people - so honored. This high pressure is where people seemed to draw the line on ethics; It is OK to lie but do it nicely and they won't be banned.

3) I also know what is written in the contract and the contracts people that administer them are absolutely top flight and fair; I  have never had contract issues that were not resolved to my satisfaction. I play fair as do they.

4) The resort facilities, the maintenance, the continuous innovation, the service, and response to issues are top tier in meeting the customer interests - better than any resort I have ever stayed at.

I realize that the high pressure sales approach is what really makes people mad enough to complain, which in turns lathers up tuggers even to boycott. I believe Grupo Mayan should fix it as it makes people draw lines in the sand without understanding the whole picture. Every time I visit, I raise the issue, but obviously not to the right people.

However for me, 3 and 4 above trumps 2 easily as they represent the true nature of the resort.

Mike


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## Grupo Mayan (Dec 14, 2010)

*Dear Bloggers,*

Thank you all for your comments. We do read them with much interest and at times, great concern. Whether they support us or not, they enable us to improve our overall performance. 

As part of a special team committed to Customer Satisfaction, retaining our clients and complying with their needs is our main goal and will always be. We are diligently working to resolve any concerns that our customers might have and we make sure they are addressed by the corresponding responsible areas. We analyze each situation individually and make sure to provide a suitable resolution for all parties involved

Being that said, rest assured I am an authorized representative of Grupo Mayan that can be contacted via email (grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com) or by telephone to the number most of you already know (1-800-292-9446 - USA and 1-800-421-4161 - CANADA).

We are committed to making your vacations memorable; your own personal experience will be the best evidence of our quality. 

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


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## curtbrown (Dec 15, 2010)

As an owner that just went through an "Owner Update" here in Nuevo Vallarta 2 days ago, I have to relate my experiences with Grupo Mayan.  

Yes, when we purchased our initial timeshare with them a number of years ago we experienced the aggressive sales tactics that others are talking about - no lies, just high pressure.  We ended up buying at that time and, like others, had buyers remorse for a few months - until we visited for the first time.  The resorts are unbelievable and the customer service from the in-house staff is much better than at any of the other timeshares we own.  

Since that time, we have attended several "Owner Updates" and have never experienced any high pressure at all.  We were presented with offers to upgrade to some of the new levels of ownership and we have done so twice.  Every offer that was made to us was explained fully and we got everything put in writing in our contract before leaving the sales floor.  I know, others will say we should have purchased "resale", but some of the options that they were offering aren't transferable, and wouldn't be available on the resale market.

I'm talking about the "No Use - No Pay" option that we have in our contract - If we don't book a week, we don't pay any maintenance fee for that year.  None of my other timeshares offer that.  And because of that clause, I don't see where I'd ever be in a position where I felt I was stuck with a timeshare I'd be forced to sell because of financial issues.

They also offered me a "Silver Certificate" - This is where when I reach the age of 75 I only pay 1/2 of the maintenance fee, and at age 77 on, I pay no maintenance fee at all.  What other timeshare offers that?  

We have been more than satisfied with everything about the Grupo Mayan.  

Just my $0.02

Curt


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## mikenk (Dec 15, 2010)

From observations, I do perceive that new people are still getting the marathon relentless sales pressure.

As an owner, I always do the updates for the learning (yes there is some) and i am always open to negotiate. My experience over the last year in Cabo was night and day. The first was awful - their typical arrogant sales approach; we did not end up friends. The second, this year, was with a delightful lady at same resort - took 20 minutes. She agreed they had nothing to offer us over what we had. off we went. 

As always, i met separately with the contracts people during the week to go over things; I always have gripes; these are always pleasant.

i like to think this is a change in policy as these were about 9 months apart, but I believe it was which sales person you get. The jerk from the first time was still there. I liked that he gave me a dirty look once - showed he remembered me.

Mike


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

Question?

Am I the only one that thinks it is very suspicious that the OP had a 180 degree change of heart after his 1st post?

It would seem to me that Grouppo Mayans had a heavy influence on his opinion?

I suspect blackmail?


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## pjrose (Dec 15, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> Question?
> 
> Am I the only one that thinks it is very suspicious that the OP had a 180 degree change of heart after his 1st post?
> 
> ...



I assume that the OP's problems were taken care of by GM and that part of the deal was not to criticize them.

OP?


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

And nobody thinks this is a problem? This is their style. Someone is disgruntled, happens 90% of the time. 

5% of the time it makes to an internet forum. Group Mayans cuts a deal with the victim to recant the story. 

And we all live happily ever after. 

Does not add up in my book! This is still a scam!


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## mikenk (Dec 15, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> And nobody thinks this is a problem? This is their style. Someone is disgruntled, happens 90% of the time.
> 
> 5% of the time it makes to an internet forum. Group Mayans cuts a deal with the victim to recant the story.
> 
> ...



Are you saying 90% of Grand Mayan owners are disgruntled? Where did you come up with that? My bet is that 90% of all timeshare owners everywhere are disgruntled and want out, but much less for Grand Mayan owners. Why do I say that? great properties and most of us don't pay MF's unless we use. 

Grand Mayan salespeople do use high pressure sales tactics which brings people to these boards complaining; it does appear that GM does settle with many that complain; I see that as more positive than negative. 

On your last point, all retail timeshares everywhere are scams. They are selling properties for a high price that are fundamentally worth nothing on resale.. In reality, the Grand Mayan sales approach is much less so. I upgraded my ownership to a higher level on a negotiated price that can not be bought ever on resale - very clear and very straightforward with no promise at all of residual value.


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

Do a Google search for Grupo Mayan. # 4 on the hit list starts complaints about this organization, and their sales tactics and lies. 

Is GM the only offender by no means. Marriott, Starwood, and most Sales presentations are full of liars. (Not all but most). 

The 90% figure is by no means measured or calculated. Yes most people that buy direct feel fleeced after the fact. 

That being said I have heard too many horror stories from this Grouper Mayan organization, with regards to their smear tactics once someone complains on an internet forum. 

What I am saying is they are underhanded in more ways than the typical TS organization. 

Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, etc do not try and blacklist people if they air their complaints on the net. Rescission clauses are clearly stated at the time of sale. This does not appear to be the case with Grouper Mayan.

The OP was forced to retract his statement only after GM promised a resolution. That is blackmail! If they resolve the issue the OP can make that statement. He does not have to Kiss up to GM.


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## Barbeque (Dec 15, 2010)

I understand the plight of many wwith the Mayan Resorts. 
I bought at Solmar in 1996 and have loved it and vacationed more than ever before.  But now they are raising their fees and the transfer fee has appeared at 10 per cent of the original price.  *I wish they would see my post and buy me out   I might shut up   *Mr Luis Bulnes that founded Solmar understood his customers but the new generation needs to learn about 
"Treating others like you would like to be treated" 
The resorts need to make a profit but this gouging at every opportunity will come back in spades to them at some point.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 15, 2010)

My comments below.

Do a Google search for Grupo Mayan. # 4 on the hit list starts complaints about this organization, and their sales tactics and lies. Yep, just one negative statement or headline on the 'net pulls in others who also may not have done their homework ahead of time, who had buyer's remorse, who didn't read the contract before they left the resort.  And so it balloons as a magnet to draw in others.

What I am saying is they are underhanded in more ways than the typical TS organization. 

That is blackmail! If they resolve the issue the OP can make that statement. He does not have to Kiss up to GM.
  The OP did make a statement that the issue was resolved.


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

*Here is what the OP said*



duane said:


> I wish to retract this statement about the Mayan Resorts.  They care very much about their image & guests and have worked with me to resolve my issue.



Why did the OP have to retract his statement and put a positive spin on this?

All he had to say was my issue has been resolved. The OP was advised on what and how to make this statement. Very suspicious.


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## billymach4 (Dec 15, 2010)

muranojo said:


> My comments below.
> 
> Do a Google search for Grupo Mayan. # 4 on the hit list starts complaints about this organization, and their sales tactics and lies. Yep, just one negative statement or headline on the 'net pulls in others who also may not have done their homework ahead of time, who had buyer's remorse, who didn't read the contract before they left the resort.  And so it balloons as a magnet to draw in others.
> 
> ...




It takes more that one negative statement to be listed on as #4 on the Google list. Get real.


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## billymach4 (Dec 16, 2010)

*Another Google Search leads right back here!*

I did a Google search mind you. Not a search within TUG!

Another Victim had to retract his statement. This really stinks!

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103260


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## billymach4 (Dec 16, 2010)

http://www.google.com/search?q=grup...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


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## california-bighorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Barbeque said:


> I understand the plight of many wwith the Mayan Resorts.
> I bought at Solmar in 1996 and have loved it and vacationed more than ever before.  But now they are raising their fees and the transfer fee has appeared at 10 per cent of the original price.  *I wish they would see my post and buy me out   I might shut up   *Mr Luis Bulnes that founded Solmar understood his customers but the new generation needs to learn about
> "Treating others like you would like to be treated"
> The resorts need to make a profit but this gouging at every opportunity will come back in spades to them at some point.



When the resorts start adding new fees and raising existing fees on their owners there will be a point where the owners can justify to themselves to just walk away.  We are starting to see that trend now.  I know the existing economy is responsible for a good part of it, but timeshare resorts are compounding the problem.  If people will walk away from their house why keep the timeshare?  Although it hurts all other owners, and it is an unpopular position on this site, it's getting to where I can't blame those like Barbeque who are ready to tell them to just shove it.  If a timeshare added additional fees not specified in the original contract, it's my position they have violated the contract and any negative action to follow is a result of their action.  I honestly believe some sold-out timeshares (like right to use resorts in Mexico) are trying to drive their members out as it would be far more lucrative to turn those weeks into rentals.


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## curtbrown (Dec 16, 2010)

"When the resorts start adding new fees and raising existing fees on their owners there will be a point where the owners can justify to themselves to just walk away. We are starting to see that trend now. I know the existing economy is responsible for a good part of it, but timeshare resorts are compounding the problem."
____________________

In most cases you are right.  However, sometimes it can't be helped.  For example, the County of Maui recently changed their property tax rates that dramatically hurt timeshare owners.  The new tax rates are $5.00 per thousand for residential, $8.30 for hotel & resort, but a whopping $14.00 for timeshare owners.  

I won't try to explain the logic, but the bottom line is that all of the Maui owners were hit with a large annual increase.  Many have walked away from their contracts.  When the time goes back to the company, there is less money coming in to them to pay for maintenance, utilities, etc... to keep the resort functioning.  That leaves both the company and the owners in a bad position.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 16, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> It takes more that one negative statement to be listed on as #4 on the Google list. Get real.



I am real, and you obviously had a different take on my post from my intention.  I was saying once something's posted on the internet, it can morph into an ongoing saga, especially when it invites visitors to post even more who are feeling disgruntled for whatever reason. 

Yes, there are multiple complaints about this resort's sales practices, and we've been through this ad nauseam on this forum. I really fail to understand what your intent is here.  If you are trying to help future victims--no worry, as you said, MP is #4 on the Google list.


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## John Cummings (Dec 16, 2010)

muranojo said:


> I really fail to understand what your intent is here.  If you are trying to help future victims--no worry, as you said, MP is #4 on the Google list.



I was wondering that myself. Obviously there are a lot of happy owners at the Grupo Mayan resorts and obviously there are many that don't like their sales practices. The fact is that they are great resorts with superb service. The Grand Mayans are definitely our favorite resorts by far and we have stayed in many others like Marriott and the Royal Mayan, HGVC, etc. This is why we have spent 10 weeks at the Grand Mayans as we normally do not return to the same resort.

We are not owners but have exchanged there with SFX. How they, or any developer, conducts their sales presentations is of no concern because we don't attend any. As I said before, we have NEVER had any pressure to attend a sales presentation at the Grand Mayans which certainly hasn't been true at other timeshares including the Royal Mayan. After we checked in we just told them that we don't attend sales presentations and they said OK and we never heard from them again.

Seeing as I am not an owner, I have no vested interest one way or the other. We just enjoy the resorts. I would never buy any timeshare in Mexico period. However, I do understand why some of the folks here have purchased as they do offer some valuable benefits if one can use them.


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## pjrose (Dec 16, 2010)

It seems to me that these resorts, which many posters agree are beautiful and have good service, could take care of the negative image by changing their sales tactics.  

Don't do the hard sell (if the resorts are beautiful they should practically sell themselves!), don't make promises that won't  come true, be upfront about the timeframe for cancellation and honor it without hassle, have a printed price list for the basic purchase plus the assorted options, and point out to buyers and prospective buyers exactly where each promise and option appears in the contract.  

And no, I do not live in la-la land - it can be done this way and sometimes is!


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## mikenk (Dec 16, 2010)

pjrose said:


> It seems to me that these resorts, which many posters agree are beautiful and have good service, could take care of the negative image by changing their sales tactics.
> 
> Don't do the hard sell (if the resorts are beautiful they should practically sell themselves!), don't make promises that won't  come true, be upfront about the timeframe for cancellation and honor it without hassle, have a printed price list for the basic purchase plus the assorted options, and point out to buyers and prospective buyers exactly where each promise and option appears in the contract.
> 
> And no, I do not live in la-la land - it can be done this way and sometimes is!



I absolutely agree with you; Group Vidanta has a unique ownership structure. It is really a smorgasbord of options in unit luxury, size, and the amenities that go with each. Once you get past the high pressure front people, my experience is that the process becomes quite fair and straightforward. It would seem to me  they would be much better off to just start with laying out the options and prices from the gitgo.

Mike


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## aliikai2 (Dec 16, 2010)

*Since you don't have a dog in this fight, why are you bashing Grupo Mayan??*

The entire timeshare world sells sizzle, in fact all sales is selling sizzle, not the steak 

The laws in Mexico allow a little extra latitude in the presentation of the resorts and many of the Complaining Parties go into a battle without any preparation , then they don't read the contracts, and come here to blame someone else for their failure to use good judgement 

Anytime you are offered a gift or money to attend a presentation, tour, meeting, owners update, etc you have to know that you will be subjected to a sales plan.

If you can't say no, you really shouldn't take the free gift, period.

I get really tired of people posting how they were scammed on Tug and other sites to force the PR departments of various companies to Fix their error.

The fact the the Grupo Mayan does take care of these takes them out of the scam classification, and puts them into a Classy organization that takes care of customer complaints.

We are adults living in a mostly free society, we have rights and along with them we have responsibilities , one of them is owning up to our mistakes, taking care of our decisions, and not whining how the other people doing their jobs have Done Us Wrong!!


Greg




billymach4 said:


> And nobody thinks this is a problem? This is their style. Someone is disgruntled, happens 90% of the time.
> 
> 5% of the time it makes to an internet forum. Group Mayans cuts a deal with the victim to recant the story.
> 
> ...


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## billymach4 (Dec 16, 2010)

*I am trying to help the sheep grazing the vacation grass.*

Let me start by saying that I am sure the GM resorts are spectacular and a great experience. Would love to visit in the future. I of course will refuse to attend a sales pitch.




aliikai2 said:


> The entire timeshare world sells sizzle, in fact all sales is selling sizzle, not the steak
> 
> The laws in Mexico allow a little extra latitude in the presentation of the resorts and many of the Complaining Parties go into a battle without any preparation , then they don't read the contracts, and come here to blame someone else for their failure to use good judgement
> 
> ...


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## Tropical lady (Dec 16, 2010)

*another horse in this race??*

Geez.....why don't we just have a huge continuous ongoing thread about Grupo Mayan?
Fact: there are many very happy and satisified t/s owners with Grupo Videnta....please do not ask me for a % or exact number. AND I don't know if they are retail or resale.
Fact: they do honor all aspects of the signed contract.
Fact: they do have a standard contract and price structure, but the customer drives the addendums and negotiated price.  
Fact: No MF unless you use the week!........name another company which has this feature.
Fact: waived all MF's in 2009 due to the economy.....name another company who did that.
Fact: there is a 5 business day time frame to rescind.
Fact: IF those clammoring scam and/or rip off would take the time to communicate with the company, they would have resolution WITHOUT the smear campaign that they do.  It is only right that if the issue is rectified that the OP acknowledges that in the same forum where the complaint was posted.
Thank you for all the google research, but this is known old stuff.  I'm trying to understand the anger here when t/s ownership is not an issue?  
Aliilai2, Mikenk, Cummings, and Muranojo I completely agree with all your comments.
I think this has been beaten to death...OP claims rip off, everyone jumps in for and against, Customer Support Rep posts statement, Customer Rep is suspect for ? validity, OP posts resolution, resolution is suspect for blackmail tactics, more for and against posts........we have come full circle AGAIN!


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## Tropical lady (Dec 16, 2010)

*another sheep in this race.....*

As one of the sheep grazing on vacation grass, I can state that while we graze we do read our contracts before signing and have done so through all the upgrades....yes retail!


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## aliikai2 (Dec 16, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> Let me start by saying that I am sure the GM resorts are spectacular and a great experience. Would love to visit in the future. I of course will refuse to attend a sales pitch.


You will have a great time, these truly are some of the nicest resorts in the world.



> The sales presentation is a pressure cooker of an experience. Realistically speaking if anyone was given the pros and cons and took the time to read the contract at the time of sale, no one would sign. I don't believe anyone reads the contract at the time of sale.



So, does the fact that they don't read the contract mean that the seller is scamming them? 
I upgraded our 1st Ebay Purchase into our GM 2+2 during a presentation and may upgrade again to a Grand Luxxe, but I will make sure that all the numbers are what we agreed on and that all the terms are in writing.


> Greg. Put yourself in the shoes of the victim here. You obviously know the inside track, you are familiar with the practice. When you decide to buy a big ticket item you take the time to research, weigh the pros and cons. The suckers here are bribed to attend a TS pitch, and pressured into signing on the spot. Yes I know all about the virtues of TS sales, cost of marketing etc. I just don't have to agree with the philosophy of the Mexican TS practice. Not that the practice much better in the US.


On this in red we can agree, the industry uses a _*fast paced sales approach*_  I used it when I sold hottubs a few years back. Almost all developers have to do this as they are selling a condo for 50 times it's actual value.


> Unsuspecting 1st time visitors on vacation have no idea what is about to happen. These are the suckers that were just born.



PT Barnum said that there is one born every minute, and I don't remember who said, you can't lose underestimating the intelligence of the masses.

You know the real scam, storage companies, there is a new reality show out now called Storage Wars.
Where buyers at auction purchase the contents of lockers that have become delinquent, for a few hundred $$$ and turn this items over for a pretty good profit. On one episode one buyer bought a unit for $250 and found a salesman's sample piano worth around $6000. 


Anyway, the Grupo Mayan isn't the bad guy here, the industry is and just because they are successful in their sales effort, they shouldn't be villainised and demonized.

fwiw,

Greg


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## John Cummings (Dec 16, 2010)

aliikai2 said:


> The entire timeshare world sells sizzle, in fact all sales is selling sizzle, not the steak
> 
> The laws in Mexico allow a little extra latitude in the presentation of the resorts and many of the Complaining Parties go into a battle without any preparation , then they don't read the contracts, and come here to blame someone else for their failure to use good judgement
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%.


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## John Cummings (Dec 16, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> Let me start by saying that I am sure the GM resorts are spectacular and a great experience. Would love to visit in the future. I of course will refuse to attend a sales pitch.



Then you will have no problem so why worry about it. I hope you do get a chance to visit the Grand Mayans. Just say you don't do sales presentations and they won't bother you.


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## pittle (Dec 16, 2010)

Tropical lady said:


> Geez.....why don't we just have a huge continuous ongoing thread about Grupo Mayan?
> Fact: there are many very happy and satisified t/s owners with Grupo Videnta....please do not ask me for a % or exact number. AND I don't know if they are retail or resale.
> Fact: they do honor all aspects of the signed contract.
> Fact: they do have a standard contract and price structure, but the customer drives the addendums and negotiated price.
> ...



As a happy Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan ower, I agree with everything you said.  We would not own 6 weeks with Grupo Mayan if we didn't.

PS - I know that I am unusual, but I ALWAYS read the contracts before signing and then again when I get back to our unit so that I can get clarification and correction if needed while still in town.


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## John Cummings (Dec 16, 2010)

pittle said:


> PS - I know that I am unusual, but I ALWAYS read the contracts before signing and then again when I get back to our unit so that I can get clarification and correction if needed while still in town.



I don't think you are unusual. Everybody should do that. If they don't, then they only have themselves to blame when they discover later on  that they didn't purchase what they thought they did.


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## mikenk (Dec 16, 2010)

These threads sometimes can really be addicting - just when I thought I was done, Greg, John, and Phyllis struck another chord.

I keep trying to feel sorry for the people that succumb to the high pressure tactics and then cry SCAM to make them feel better, but realistically, it is hard.

First off, I know that what is in the contract, which is what you bought and signed for, is absolutely honored by Grupo Vidanta; if you were unprepared and paid too much, that is to be expected - happens all the time.

So, then the excuse is that they weren't given time by the evil empire to read the contract to validate all the promises. That's pure nonsense; you have five days to rescind and that is clearly stated in the contract. While I originally bought resale, I have since upgraded through the company. I actually did not read the contract before i signed - didn't have to; I read it that night and rescinded twice over the next several days as I negotiated. Everything is in your favor unless you choose to play stupid. 

On a side note to Billymach4, if you choose to stay at some point, take the sales presentation just to see for yourself. Great breakfast, get some goodies. Actually, many of the young sales force are actually nice people trained in the art of fast talk; my wife talks them to death during breakfast, I then frustrate them with questions they can't answer. They are very easy to disarm; I think you would find it fun.

Mike


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## pianodinosaur (Dec 16, 2010)

You all know my feelings regarding the GM high pressure sales presentation.  However, whenever we go to a GM resort the service is excellent and I have not yet seen anyone having a bad time on vacation. All the owners I have spoken with seemed to be enjoying the property at least as much as we have. My advice to a buyer who thinks he paid too much is to learn from his mistakes and enjoy his timeshare. Many of us on TUG have purchased direct prior to learning about the resale market, myself included.

This is an observatory the left by the Mayans at Chichen Itza.  This excursion was booked by the concierge at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya.


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## pjrose (Dec 16, 2010)

mikenk said:


> . . . . if you choose to stay at some point, take the sales presentation just to see for yourself. Great breakfast, get some goodies. Actually, many of the young sales force are actually nice people trained in the art of fast talk; *my wife talks them to death during breakfast, I then frustrate them with questions they can't answer. They are very easy to disarm; I think you would find it fun.*
> 
> Mike



Sounds like me!


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## DeniseM (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree that in a perfect world everyone would go to their first timeshare presentation well-prepared.  But how do you prepare for something you don't even know is going to happen?  I certainly wasn't prepared before I went to my first TS presentation - I hardly knew what a TS was!

Timeshare sales are DESIGNED to catch these folks.  The sales people practically drag you into the presentation with gifts and empty promises.  How do you prepare for that if you don't even know what's going on?  

All the forums on TUG have their share of posters who are unhappy with the developer - the Mexico forum is not unique in that way.  Part of TUG's mission is to be a sounding board for those folks.  

Telling them they should have done their homework before they attended a sales presentation they had no idea they were attending, is not very logical.

It reminds me of my college Chem professor.  I was struggling with a concept and his response was, "I understand this perfectly, I don't know why you don't understand it."    

Maybe when you were a newbie you found TUG first, or you got lucky and rescinded, or you have just made the best of your developer purchase and moved on.  But most of us have made at least one TS purchase that we would do differently if we had a chance - so can't we have a little empathy for the newbies who get suckered by a sales presentation and come here for advice?

Responding with a post about how skilled you were when you negotiated your timeshare purchase, or how wonderful the resort is, really has nothing to do with the very real problems with the way timeshares are sold.


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## siesta (Dec 16, 2010)

if noone bought from the developer, then we wouldn't have resales to buy.  It is a necessary evil.

I too had a professor that said something that stuck with me.  It was "If you can't keep it, you can't have it"


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## John Cummings (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree that there are some very naive people in this world. But really, does somebody expect to receive free gifts and not have somebody try to sell them something. There is no free lunch.

Actually, not all sales presentations are bad. We have been to 3 in our 23 years of timesharing. The last one we went to was in Puerto Vallarta 18 years ago. It was just as bad as what people say about the Grupo Mayan. We had some fun with it and of course didn't buy anything. We did vow that we would never go to another and we haven't.

The first timeshare presentation we went to was with Glen Ivy in San Diego 23 years ago. We bought our first timeshare at San Luis Bay Inn, Avila Beach CA at that time. There was no pressure at all and the salesman was very straight forward and in fact gave us his home phone number. When we decided to buy, the sales manager came around to our table and asked us if we understood everything and are we sure that we really wanted to buy it. We bought from the developer because we wanted that particular resort then and it wasn't open yet so no resales. We never had a problem at all and it worked out very well. I sold it a couple years ago as we had more weeks than we could use.

The second sales presentation was when we bought at the Gaslamp Plaza Suites in San Diego a couple years later. Again there was no pressure nor lies. We bought that one because we wanted that particular resort and it was just opening so no resales. We have also been happy with the Gaslamp Plaza Suites.

So our experience with sales presentations is 2 very good ones and one bad one. The bad one didn't bother us as we knew how to play the game. We just wanted a couple of the things they offered us. Having lived in Mexico and working there, I knew what to expect. However after that, we decided our time is more important to us.

I don't have much sympathy for people that don't bother to read contracts, etc. It doesn't matter whether it is timeshare sales, or whatever, people have to assume responsibility for their own actions. There are so many people today that always blame somebody else.


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## mikenk (Dec 16, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Maybe when you were a newbie you found TUG first, or you got lucky and rescinded, or you have just made the best of your developer purchase and moved on.  But most of us have made at least one TS purchase that we would do differently if we had a chance - so can't we have a little empathy for the newbies who get suckered by a sales presentation and come here for advice?



When a newbie comes to TUG wanting advice, I think they get it with no admonishment whether it to be rescind or not to pay upfront money to the vulture resale companies. To me, that is different from people not wanting advice but to complain that they were robbed by high pressure salesmen so they don't have to take responsibility.

High pressure sales practices have been around forever and I assume always will be. I remember my parents buying a Kirby vacuum cleaner that we couldn't afford based on the slick fast talking salesman. They later regretted it and blamed themselves - not the salesman. By so doing, they learned.

While I agree we should have empathy for an individual looking for help, I don't think as a forum we should excuse people from personal responsibility for their decisions and place it all on the sales process. I believe until people take ownership of their mistakes will they learn from them.

My two cents,
Mike


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## timeos2 (Dec 16, 2010)

*How about the Dyson? Can it get more too?*



mikenk said:


> High pressure sales practices have been around forever and I assume always will be. I remember my parents buying a Kirby vacuum cleaner that we couldn't afford based on the slick fast talking salesman. They later regretted it and blamed themselves - not the salesman. By so doing, they learned.



Great example on a much smaller scale. Those guys use every trick known - and people buy into the dream of easy to use attachments that will clean the whole house in minutes and practically no effort. Substitute fantastic units anywhere through an easy and virtually automatic trade with the overpriced, dog week they are offering and you get the picture. Still the buyers fault for not realizing that ANY vacuum will get "more" dirt from most carpets on the second (or third or fourth pass to "prove" how good theirs is. Who ever tries a third pass with a clean filter after they "prove" it the second time? I you did you'd find the new one left stuff behind as well). Who actually checks on trades, market value or fees until it's too late with timeshares?  Realize it's up to you to properly handle yoiur money and commitments.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 17, 2010)

Yes, excellent example, Mike.  My in-laws paid $2k for their Kirby many years ago, and they were struggling to raise 3 sons and really couldn't afford it.  But in those days, you took responsibility for your decisions, and I never did hear them blame the sales rep, although they were fully aware they didn't make the best decision.


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## aliikai2 (Dec 17, 2010)

*Dearest Denise,*

The discussion was never addressed to the OP, it was among the members regarding personal responsibility for one's actions.

Like you we bought our 1st two timeshares retail from the developer, our error, we weren't duped, scammed, cheated, etc .

We made the mistake, and we paid for them.
 That is the major point on this thread, along with the facts regarding the Grupo Mayan, that they are no worse than most timeshare developers, and better than some.

I posted a couple of years ago that I hoped that those that bought and then got cold feet wouldn't start posting SCAM here to get out of their contracts. 

It has become an acceptable way of getting out of you commitments, and once an OP posts, some vociferous members climb on the band wagon dragging out the Tar and feathers and looking for that Rail to Run the Grupo Mayan out of Dodge.

jmho,

Greg 



DeniseM said:


> I agree that in a perfect world everyone would go to their first timeshare presentation well-prepared.  But how do you prepare for something you don't even know is going to happen?  I certainly wasn't prepared before I went to my first TS presentation - I hardly knew what a TS was!
> 
> Timeshare sales are DESIGNED to catch these folks.  The sales people practically drag you into the presentation with gifts and empty promises.  How do you prepare for that if you don't even know what's going on?
> 
> ...


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## John Cummings (Dec 17, 2010)

Unlike many others here that regret buying their first timeshare(s) from the developer, we do not regret it at all. We bought both of ours from the developers because they were brand new resorts that we wanted at that particular time.


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## Rick H (Jan 13, 2011)

*Never a gun to MY head!*



Tropical lady said:


> I am glad to see a post from Grupo Mayan commenting that these posts are read.  Those of us who own a t/s with Grupo Mayan and have been through the sales presentations are familiar with the process.  And while we have recognized that some buyers have been mislead, we are disheartened to see negative posts about sales which diminishes the perceived quality of these wonderful resorts.  It seems that many either have buyer's remorse or don't read the contracts until they get home.  I can only speak for myself, but I am frustrated qualifying a "scam" accusation or recommending communication with member services to those who regret the purchase, but don't take ownership for their decision.  On the other side, Grupo Mayan has a wonderful product that sells itself so sales tactics need to be reviewed.
> Please keep forum reviews in your schedule.        Thank you !!



I have been a Grand Mayan owner since 2005 and Mayan Palace owner two years before that.  I have been to many "owner updates" since then.  Yes, the pressure can get pretty intense sometimes.  But if you can't stay focused and keep your wits intact, do go!  My last upgrade got me out of having to pay a maintenance fee every year, whether I used my week or not.  It also got me two extra weeks, every year instead of every other year.  Did it cost me?  Of course it did!  Was it worth it?  I'd be admitting to being a fool if I answered no.  You have to keep track of what the sales person is offering.  KEEP THEIR SCRIBBLE SHEETS!!  Make sure what they said you were getting is what you understood you were signing for, in plain, easy to understand language, before signing!
They took me for a tour of the Bliss, or Luxxe, or whatever they called it.  Very nice!  But so isn't my Grand Mayan Master Suite!
Bottom line is...these people are sales people.  That's their job.  They are not vultures.  They are not evil.  You don't know them or owe them anything.  They will not feel hurt if you say NO!  Deal with your brain, not your emotions.  If you can't, just say "No thank you" and sit by the pool.


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## mossimo (Jan 14, 2011)

*Grand Mayan rip-off*

Well, I too have become a victim of a Grand Mayan scheme.  I up-graded from a Grand Mayan to a Grand Luxxe.  The agreement was that they would trade the value of my 2 other timeshares.  I was to go through a company called Travel Around the World.  GM gave me all the paper work.  I paid TAW the exchange fee of $1050 and have not heard from them again.  I called in Oct. to find the status of my timeshare exchanges and was told that it takes 4-6 months for the paperwork to go through.  I visited the GM in Cabo this Xmas and spoke with a representative expressing my concern that I had still not heard from TAW and that it has been 7 months.  I was then told that TAW went bankrupt.  They offered no help even though it was the GM who told me to pay TAW to do the paperwork.  Now why is it that GM keeps working with companies that are scams?  This is the 2nd time they gave me a company to work with that has gone under or probably never really existed.  How can I really know what happened?  Now what recourse do I have?  I only worked with TAW because GM told me to and now I am out $1050 plus I still have to pay the maintenance fees :hysterical:  for the timeshares I thought I got rid of.  So, is there anyone else out there in the same boat and does anyone have any advice?  Sign me, just not the smartest cookie around.


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## robj (Apr 4, 2011)

*Sometimes you want to say "Yes" to a well-negotiated upgrade*

The one thing I do agree with that I've been reading since I joing TUG today is that the Contract is not always going to have in it everything you thought you were negotiating for.  Now I think there is a chance that the reservationists/customer service people know what is in our contracts better than we do and that the things we can't see in our Contract may be part of the Mayan Resorts "Internal Resort Policies"  If you negotiated it, you will get it, but the wording of the contract will often be a little more restrictive than what you thought you were buying.

For example:  We just upgraded to Grand Luxxe from Grand Mayan this weekend and while we were happy with the negotiated result, a look at the Contract showed one particular item that I still will have to resolve to my satisfaction.

Others here may have already solved this and if so help me, please.

In the presentation we understood we could use the sister resort exchange program to exchange ONE WEEK OF GRAND LUXXE (2 Bed Suite) FOR 2 WEEKS AT GRAND MAYAN--One additional advantage of this from the presentation is that instead of paying the higher-priced weekly Grand Mayan Maintenance Fee each week of the Grand Mayan would be HALF the Grand Luxxe Maintenance Fee.  Excellent except that the Contract says that ONE GRAND LUXXE WEEK (2 bed-suite) is exchangeable for a 2 bed suite and only a 1 bed suite in the Grand Mayan.  So really we would be a Studio (Master Room) short of a 2 for 1 exchange.  No biggie.

EXCEPT apparently if you do elect to use the Grand Mayan weeks consecutively you will pay Grand M.F. instead of Grand Luxxe, which paying 2 weeks of Grand Mayan will come out more expensive than 1 week of Grand Luxxe.  So that big 'ole benefit we were expecting for how we like using the resorts doesn't really apply.

Since we were able to split our previous 2 bed suites up and use a studio one week and the 1 bed suite the next, I am hoping we didn't give this up in our new contract.  We'll see


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## mikenk (Apr 4, 2011)

robj,

A few questions

Are you still there or are you back at home? What day did you do the upgrade?

Do you have the GL villa or suites, 2 bedroom or 1 bedroom?

Mike


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## Tropical lady (Apr 4, 2011)

Robj,
First, our contract is almost 1 year old, so some changes may be in place now that differs from ours.
You should have received a "sister resort exchange" sheet to convert your GL into units for GB, GM, and MP.  I used 1 week GL 2 bdrm to stay 1 week 2 bdrm GM plus a second week in a GM Master Room, ie 2 consecutive weeks for the MF of 1 GL week.  If I don't want the GL benefits, the MF is less.  If you go to MP you get a 2 bdrm and a 1 bdrm.  GB is same as the GM.
It is a fairly simple conversion for "no availability" in the GL or you are going to a resort that does not have the GL yet.
The only negative to the conversion for us is not being able to take that 2 bdrm plus master room and making 3 weeks out of it by using 1 bdrm, 1 master room, and 1 master room.
The previous year under the GB contract our addendum had a 20% discount off the MF when we stayed at the GM since GB had not been completed yet.  That MF was less than the GM MF.....good deal.  I would have preferred that over the conversion chart.
Hope this helps......somewhat


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## robj (Apr 5, 2011)

*Hi Mike*

Still in Playa (Jan. 23-May 23)
Bought the Grand Luxxe Suites


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## robj (Apr 5, 2011)

*Hi Tropical Lady*



Tropical lady said:


> Robj,
> First, our contract is almost 1 year old, so some changes may be in place now that differs from ours.
> You should have received a "sister resort exchange" sheet to convert your GL into units for GB, GM, and MP.  I used 1 week GL 2 bdrm to stay 1 week 2 bdrm GM plus a second week in a GM Master Room, ie 2 consecutive weeks for the MF of 1 GL week.  If I don't want the GL benefits, the MF is less.  If you go to MP you get a 2 bdrm and a 1 bdrm.  GB is same as the GM.
> It is a fairly simple conversion for "no availability" in the GL or you are going to a resort that does not have the GL yet.
> ...



thanks for the info.
The newest now is that you get a 2-bed suite at Grand Mayan and a 1 Bed-suite--so that's a little bit of an upgrade over a year ago.

You sound like you use the resort like we do. Once we stayed 6 consecutive weeks in Mayan Palace by breaking up our 3 weeks into 1 bed suites and Studios.  That seems like it's gone now, but I can live with the nice discount for two consecutive (or two non-concurrent) weeks by paying only the Grand Luxxe fee.

We still want to get straight about our "guarantees" in the Grand Luxxe rental program as administered by Vida through Global Alliance. We heard the word "guaranteed" 20x in our presentation, which we had never heard before.

Thanks for your post.  robj


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## mikenk (Apr 5, 2011)

Robj,

My villa contract is: a 2bedroom Villa trades for a 2 bed GM or GB and a 1 bedroom suite. A 1 bedroom villa trades for a 2 bedroom GM or G Bliss. The villa studio trades for a 1 bedroom suite in GB or GM.

In my contract, the suites differ in that the GL studio only trades for the studio at the GB or GM.

I can't help you on the rental program as I have always assumed it is bogus (still do) and never even considered it. I will be in NV next week - will probe a bit. I would be interested if anyone has had anything positive to say.

Mike


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## MuranoJo (Apr 6, 2011)

No surprise, I guess, for the GM and MP owners who are told there are fewer units available.  
I think those of you who have upgraded have a very nice product, I'm just concerned about those who don't upgrade and what the leftovers will be.


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## rpennisi (Apr 6, 2011)

muranojo said:


> No surprise, I guess, for the GM and MP owners who are told there are fewer units available.
> I think those of you who have upgraded have a very nice product, I'm just concerned about those who don't upgrade and what the leftovers will be.  You can bet I'll be citing the fine print in my contract when I call in for my high-season reservation.



As one who is still a MP owner, what "fine print" is that?


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## MuranoJo (Apr 6, 2011)

rpennisi said:


> As one who is still a MP owner, what "fine print" is that?



Ron,

Each contract can be different, so I've retracted my statement.  Of course, since it's a floating week, it is 'subject to availability,' and since the Luxxe obviously has overflow rights, I am sure those in lower levels will continue to see less availability.


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## mikenk (Apr 6, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Ron,
> 
> Each contract can be different, so I've retracted my statement.  Of course, since it's a floating week, it is 'subject to availability,' and since the Luxxe obviously has overflow rights, I am sure those in lower levels will continue to see less availability.



I actually haven't personally seen that the Luxxe has 'automatic' overflow rights into the other brands. When we couldn't get the week we wanted at the GL, we asked about moving into the Grand Mayan. We were told we had to wait until that time window opened for all. It is certainly true that the GL folks do add more people to the mix but they do not get special priorities. I'm not sure whether that was your main concern or just more people trying.

Mike


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## sally13 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Our G.Bliss upgrade..*

Other then the golf and spa,and the 1 bed to 2 upgrade...as well as the no-fee unless you use insurance,and the promised placement of ocean view in R .Maya ....one of the more urgent gains of the upgrade(for us at least) was the fact that if downgraded for whatever reason,the resort will try to make good on better unit placement BECAUSE we are the holders of a higher valued contract...This all but makes it certain of the ocean view unit in N.Vallarta....instead of the parking garage(important to us)although the back side units have wonderful mountain views..

This will also (and HAS) made sure we are in the first 2 Grand Mayan buildings at R.Maya...While we wait for the G.Bliss to be built 

so there is some of that availabilty roll down you all fear..one more reason why we upgraded,keeping ahead of the pack...and staying out of the jungle Grand Mayans....


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## robj (Apr 6, 2011)

mikenk said:


> Robj,
> 
> My villa contract is: a 2bedroom Villa trades for a 2 bed GM or GB and a 1 bedroom suite. A 1 bedroom villa trades for a 2 bedroom GM or G Bliss. The villa studio trades for a 1 bedroom suite in GB or GM.
> 
> ...



Yeah, Mike thanks. If you get a chance ask about what is called their Residence Weeks Program. I'll be interested if you hear the word guaranteed or the $$ figures being passed around.  Bogus (lies) vs. misleading statements that are read too optimistically by the buyer are two hugely different things.  Like I said in some thread we heard the word "guaranteed" 20x.  I do think it's rather new as is Vida's association with Mayan properties.

I, too, am concerned about availability except Acapulco where I think you could walk up to the front desk and get a discounted Suite. HA! Obviously every room at Grand Mayan Riviera wasn't rented last week when we were there, but they must have already been put with brokers and maintenance fees paid.  Our presenter said the days of the brokers are gone and have been replaced by Orbitz, Hotwire, Expedia, etc., which is where this Global Alliance kicks in.  I think Mayan realizes they have a number of empty rooms each week where they only received a maintenance week fee with no chance of a timeshare sale.  This Residence Weeks program gives them possession of more weeks.

Maybe i'm too optimistic-I don't know why I would be after seeing how the last couple of rental programs failed miserably.


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## rpennisi (Apr 6, 2011)

sally13 said:


> .....
> so there is some of that availabilty roll down you all fear..one more reason why we upgraded,keeping ahead of the pack...and staying out of the jungle Grand Mayans....



But, the Grand Bliss in Riviera Maya *will be in the jungle*.  So, do you "welcome to the jungle" with GB once finished, or go for GM 1-7?  I can see GM owners who have not upgraded being annoyed or worse if they get the faraway buildings in GM, while other levels get their preferred units, even if the reserving playing field is even.
Ron


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## mikenk (Apr 6, 2011)

rpennisi said:


> But, the Grand Bliss in Riviera Maya *will be in the jungle*.  So, do you "welcome to the jungle" with GB once finished, or go for GM 1-7?  I can see GM owners who have not upgraded being annoyed or worse if they get the faraway buildings in GM, while other levels get their preferred units, even if the reserving playing field is even.
> Ron



Ron / Sally, Good point. I didn't think about that. I did stay at the GM in Cabo and did get a top tier location. it would be nice to know the actual numbers of GL and GB owners who are booking into the GM to understand the significance.

Mike


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## sally13 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Ron...*

The dreaded Jungle Grand Mayans,really are not THAT bad as they are still GRAND MAYANS...a huge improvement over standard palace units...as far as the Grand Bliss being in the Jungle...this might not be as bad depending on what type of (complex) is included...I still feel slighted to a degree,but life was never promised to be a bowl of cherries...was it??such is the price of dealing with new construction...

being from the big city,makes us a little more impatient,as we often walk to the beach,but because of health issues, now have to rely on the shuttle...I would hope the G Bliss would have several shuttles as to avoid wait times...

still having the edge on ocean front in  N. Vallarta units and preferred R.MAYA units in the meantime,was worth the price to upgrade alone....

I still will raise all hell....

whatever the outcome of all this,Grupo still is a 5 star,non-all inclusive,top tier, resort chain....tops in Mexico,...IMHO..


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## mikenk (Apr 6, 2011)

sally13 said:


> The dreaded Jungle Grand Mayans,really are not THAT bad as they are still GRAND MAYANS...a huge improvement over standard palace units...as far as the Grand Bliss being in the Jungle...this might not be as bad depending on what type of (complex) is included...I still feel slighted to a degree,but life was never promised to be a bowl of cherries...was it??such is the price of dealing with new construction...



One of the problems with RM is it is so spread out due to the height restrictions that no one really gets an ocean view; the primary issue is ready access to restaurants, the ocean, and the pools. At my visit there last month, I had discussions with member services: that is the number one complaint at that resort; they are looking at some pretty innovative solutions.

Mike


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## sally13 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Yes...*

but ,I guess this is the trade off,we will make as R.Maya is the resort we go to most often....The kids love the abundance of clear water activities,as well as the easy to get to ruins and cenotes...I like the safety of cancun (federalies with submachine  guns at the ready)makes me feel that tourist protection is high priority...it is funny that this is scary to some folks..

R.Maya has the most options of any Mexico location......

The average tourist is not very old...somehow I prefer to be in this group as I feel more active and alive...

In N Vallarta,the resort was dominated by 65 plusers...nothing wrong with that..just another crowd all together...

great resort though


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## california-bighorn (Apr 6, 2011)

sally13 said:


> R.Maya has the most options of any Mexico location......
> 
> The average tourist is not very old...somehow I prefer to be in this group as I feel more active and alive...
> 
> ...



The age of the crowd may depend on what time of the year you are there.  We were at the Grand Mayan Riviera in February 2010 and we felt like we were at an old folks home and we are approaching retirement age ourselves.  Again, that's not a problem, at least for us, but we have noticed almost everywhere in Mexico and Hawaii, the younger crowds tend to appear in the summer and vacation weeks due to kids being out of  school.  Only makes sense for those retired to go to the warmer climates in winter and enjoy themselves.
With the crowd being on the older side, the trams were really kept busy as most of the guests were not going to walk the long distances required at this location.


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## pittle (Apr 6, 2011)

sally13 said:


> In N Vallarta,the resort was dominated by 65 plusers...nothing wrong with that..just another crowd all together...
> 
> great resort though



Hey - a bunch of us fit that group!!    Hubby is already there and I am catching up faster than I would like.     (Beats the alternative.)

While we absolutely love watching families having a blast at the MP/GM, we do love going to the resorts when most kids are in school and we can have the pools and beach to ourselves - that is why we love vacationing in May, October, November and January.  We have been discussing going back to the Riviera Maya in January since it is next up on our "resort rotation" - so watch out for us "65 plusers" as we may invade your favorite resort!


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## John Cummings (Apr 6, 2011)

When we last stayed at the Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta for 2 weeks, 99% of the guests were Mexican families with lots of kids. We were there Easter week and the week after which is the busiest time.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 7, 2011)

mikenk said:


> I actually haven't personally seen that the Luxxe has 'automatic' overflow rights into the other brands. When we couldn't get the week we wanted at the GL, we asked about moving into the Grand Mayan. We were told we had to wait until that time window opened for all. It is certainly true that the GL folks do add more people to the mix but they do not get special priorities. I'm not sure whether that was your main concern or just more people trying.
> 
> Mike


Mike, it was primarily more competition for the rooms.  Plus remember some of the lower levels don't have the earlier reservation system higher levels do.  I think those who pay for higher levels should expect more, but I think Grupo is pre-selling these new levels so early before construction and making room for them at the lower levels' expense.

Grupo seems to expand pools as it expands levels, so that somewhat dissipates the concern about crowding.  Though, they sure are more 'mega' than when we first purchased.


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## sally13 (Apr 7, 2011)

*Muranojo...*

"I think those that pay for higher levels,should expect more.."

Thats are hard one to get by with this crowd. by the way as one who has paid for the higher level,I completely agree!!!

This IS the way it should be..the economic crisis has made alot of folks think firesales and something for nothing is the NEW norm...we shall see...


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## sally13 (Apr 7, 2011)

*Phyllis...*

At 55 I am not far behind,age wise,that is....Its just ,I like to converse about doing things and being active,rather then my senior discounts...the latter makes me feel I have one foot in... if you know what I mean....

As far as invading...feel free,just don't be shy when the scuba boat signup sheet comes around ...


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## rpennisi (Apr 7, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Mike, it was primarily more competition for the rooms.  Plus remember some of the lower levels don't have the earlier reservation system higher levels do.  I think those who pay for higher levels should expect more, but I think Grupo is pre-selling these new levels so early before construction and making room for them at the lower levels' expense.
> 
> Grupo seems to expand pools as it expands levels, so that somewhat dissipates the concern about crowding.  Though, they sure are more 'mega' than when we first purchased.



It has been said that GB and GL owners mostly come from "lower" levels and therefore don't take up space with those levels when they trade down.  I can buy that, but I am sure, although we don't have the numbers, that there are more than a few new buyers to those levels.  Having been in mayan resorts for 5 weeks this year, I saw many tours ongoing, and a number had no bracelets or traders' bracelets on.
Grupo Vidanta oversells the GB and GL, and then has to service them at other levels, who bought before the advent of those brands.  I think a fairer way of doing it would have been for new buyers to have a future dated contract to coincide with the actual buildings being there.  Service your present owners, then service the new levels with new buildings when available.  Those who did buy from previous levels could have those contracts continued until their new levels are completed for them to use.
Ron


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## rpennisi (Apr 7, 2011)

sally13 said:


> "I think those that pay for higher levels,should expect more.."
> 
> Thats are hard one to get by with this crowd. by the way as one who has paid for the higher level,I completely agree!!!
> 
> This IS the way it should be..the economic crisis has made alot of folks think firesales and something for nothing is the NEW norm...we shall see...



Sally,
It has nothing to do with the economic crisis or fire sales.  Like I stated in an earlier post, despite the woe is me that many say our economy is in, there is a lot of money out there, and people who can afford these higher levels.  Good for them.  But don't assume that gives you the right and entitlement  to get more because you paid more for a *different level* over folks who bought their units in good faith.
I have nothing against people getting what they paid for, but they shouldn't get or be given priority for what they didn't pay for.
Ron


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## curtbrown (Apr 7, 2011)

One thing to remember here -  Over the years, owners in Grupo Mayan have always had the right to use not only the facilities at their level of ownership, but also use of all levels below theirs.  This isn't anything new.  And as a GM owner, you could always trade into a MP or SG resort and you would have access to all of their properties & facilities, even if you were staying in the GM.  

I think some of the dissatisfaction that GM owners are experiencing is that the newer (higher) levels of ownership are now infringing on what they perceive to be "their" facilities.  They are no longer at the very top.  In fact, since ALL owners have access to their own level, and all those below, the GM, MP and SG facilities also are part of what the GB and GL owners are paying for.  

Curt


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## John Cummings (Apr 7, 2011)

curtbrown said:


> One thing to remember here -  Over the years, owners in Grupo Mayan have always had the right to use not only the facilities at their level of ownership, but also use of all levels below theirs.  This isn't anything new.  And as a GM owner, you could always trade into a MP or SG resort and you would have access to all of their properties & facilities, even if you were staying in the GM.
> 
> I think some of the dissatisfaction that GM owners are experiencing is that the newer (higher) levels of ownership are now infringing on what they perceive to be "their" facilities.  They are no longer at the very top.  In fact, since ALL owners have access to their own level, and all those below, the GM, MP and SG facilities also are part of what the GB and GL owners are paying for.
> 
> Curt



You are absolutely correct.


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## pittle (Apr 7, 2011)

curtbrown said:


> One thing to remember here -  Over the years, owners in Grupo Mayan have always had the right to use not only the facilities at their level of ownership, but also use of all levels below theirs.  This isn't anything new.  And as a GM owner, you could always trade into a MP or SG resort and you would have access to all of their properties & facilities, even if you were staying in the GM.
> 
> I think some of the dissatisfaction that GM owners are experiencing is that the newer (higher) levels of ownership are now infringing on what they perceive to be "their" facilities.  They are no longer at the very top.  In fact, since ALL owners have access to their own level, and all those below, the GM, MP and SG facilities also are part of what the GB and GL owners are paying for.
> 
> Curt



When we bought our first Vidafel (Grupo Mayan/Vidanta) property, it was a 2-bedroom Sea Garden.  We could use the 2-bedroom SG for a 1-bedroom Mayan Palace.  We did that to stay at the MP Acapulco before we upgraded to a 2-bedroom MP later in the year in NV.  We have never been told that we could use a 2-bedroom MP for a 1-bedroom GM, but when we bought MP, GM was not even in the works.  When we upgraded to GM, we were told that we could book MP or SG if we wanted and these show up on the reservations website.  We also have Maz-Pak, Sun-Pak & Sea-Pak if we want to use them at a MP or SG.  I would not be surprised if you Luxxe folks don't have something similar for the MP or GM.  

When we go to MP properties, we often recieve GM wristbands.  When we go GM or MP we often eat at the Sea Garden.


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## curtbrown (Apr 7, 2011)

pittle said:


> When we bought our first Vidafel (Grupo Mayan/Vidanta) property, it was a 2-bedroom Sea Garden.  We could use the 2-bedroom SG for a 1-bedroom Mayan Palace.  We did that to stay at the MP Acapulco before we upgraded to a 2-bedroom MP later in the year in NV.  We have never been told that we could use a 2-bedroom MP for a 1-bedroom GM, but when we bought MP, GM was not even in the works.  When we upgraded to GM, we were told that we could book MP or SG if we wanted and these show up on the reservations website.  We also have Maz-Pak, Sun-Pak & Sea-Pak if we want to use them at a MP or SG.  I would not be surprised if you Luxxe folks don't have something similar for the MP or GM.
> 
> When we go to MP properties, we often recieve GM wristbands.  When we go GM or MP we often eat at the Sea Garden.


_____________

I think we're in agreement here...  

Yes, us "Luxxe folks" DO have something similar.  If you are a GL owner, your unit trades down for larger units or more weeks depending on your level of ownership.  For example, a 1-BR GL may trade for a 2-BR GM.  Or one week in a 2-BR GL may trade for 2 weeks in a 2-BR GM.  Each contract spells out the exchanges you have available to you.  

I'm assuming the 2-BR SG into a 1-BR MP at the time may have been a marketing tool to expose you to the differences between the two and potentially get you to upgrade.  As far as the 2-BR MP exchanging into a 1-BR GM, unless you have it in your contract, it would be at the Grupo Mayan's discretion.

Curt


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## sally13 (Apr 7, 2011)

*Ron...*

We purchased G .Mayan paid big $$$..We purchased G.Bliss ,paid big $$$  again... 

If I find a G.Bliss unit is not available..BY GOSH,I BETTER GET THE VERY BEST G.MAYAN AVAILABLE!!!.....OVER AND ABOVE,AND WELL BEFORE ANY G.MAYAN ONLY PURCHASER...

Sorry ...thats the way it goes...as it should....I am first and always a G. mayan owner,just because we upgraded does not mean we gave up our rights to grand mayan inventory..in fact we are at the very top of that group ,only to be superceded by A G.Luxxe owner..

My problem is with the resaler that ebayed for a buck..but you know thats a whole other can of worms that I will not open


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## MuranoJo (Apr 8, 2011)

For those of you who have upgraded or outright purchased the higher levels (GL, L, GB, B), could you get Holiday weeks (Christmas, New Years, Holy Weeks)?


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## robj (Apr 8, 2011)

*Ron, I must disagree*

deleted by poster


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## robj (Apr 8, 2011)

curtbrown said:


> _____________
> 
> GL may trade for 2 weeks in a 2-BR GM.
> Curt



Really?
Our contract signed a week ago only allows a Grand Luxxe to trade for a Grand Mayan 2 bedroom week AND a G.M. 1-Bed Suite--we are a Studio (master room) short of a 2 for 1 exchange.

If you'll check and post if you were correct it would be appreciated as I am still in Playa del Carmen until May 23 and should be able to re-negotiate for that extra studio as well.

Thanks, robj


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## curtbrown (Apr 8, 2011)

Actually, what GL unit you have determines what it trades for, and I was only making the point that it's spelled out in your contract.  Since there are currently 6 levels of GL ownership (Villa 2-BR, Villa 1-BR, Villa Studio, Suite 2-BR, Suite 1-BR and Suite Studio) and soon to be 3-BR units each level will trade into lower levels for larger units or more time.  I don't pretend to know exactly what trades for what, or if some people can negotiate better trades at the time of purchase.  

My point was - it is actually spelled out in the current GB and GL contracts, where it may not have been in some of the older MP & GM contracts.

Curt


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## Sponge (Apr 9, 2011)

sally13 said:


> We purchased G .Mayan paid big $$$..We purchased G.Bliss ,paid big $$$  again...
> 
> If I find a G.Bliss unit is not available..BY GOSH,I BETTER GET THE VERY BEST G.MAYAN AVAILABLE!!!.....OVER AND ABOVE,AND WELL BEFORE ANY G.MAYAN ONLY PURCHASER...
> 
> ...



Grand Luxxe Residence Club WHY SPEND BIG "BUCKS" WHEN YOU CAN TRADE IN WITH I.I. !!!!!!!!

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



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## Tropical lady (Apr 9, 2011)

*the point is......?*

Sure you can exchange into GL.  GL is a time share, AND I can trade into yours, if I wanted to.  You purchased with a $ or $$'s, and you also have MF's which have to be paid to trade/exchange with II, so the point is........?  There are t/s's with higher MF's and more expensive to purchase, so the point is...........?
You are also getting confused about the discussion concerning trading WITHIN the company and getting more units/time to trade down.


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## mikenk (Apr 9, 2011)

I agree with Tropical lady - not sure what your point is. GL trades with II, people pay bucks to get something to trade for something. Unless one understand the bucks paid and what you get, then all is conjecture as to value. Remember, when you exchange into the GL, you don't get what owners get. Superficial comparisons are just that.

Mike


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## ArthurN (Apr 9, 2011)

mikenk said:


> Remember, when you exchange into the GL, you don't get what owners get. Superficial comparisons are just that.
> Mike



Mike,
Do you care to elaborate on what these additional "owner" benefits are?  Just got back from Mayan Palace RM and had a great time....interested in knowing if these additional benefits are worth the high premium.  We will be staying at the GL in Nuevo this Summer - the units look really impressive, can't wait.


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## Tropical lady (Apr 9, 2011)

*Fullnelson3,*

The GL benefits such as free internet, tennis, spa privileges with 2 free massages per week, 16 golf rounds per week, free safe, and a few others don't transfer to exchanges.  I noted that you will be at the GL in Nuevo, so these are the benefits for that level.  I think you have access to the meal plan and concierge availability.  Also as owners we don't pay MF's unless we use the week/s and the weeks do carry over internally for another year for use.
You will see a difference from Mayan Palace to the GL.  In addition, the 2 locations seem entirely different.  You will get the complimentary transportation to the resort from the airport as you did in RM.
I hope this helps.....I know you directed your question to Mike.


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## ArthurN (Apr 9, 2011)

Tropical lady said:


> The GL benefits such as free internet, tennis, spa privileges with 2 free massages per week, 16 golf rounds per week, free safe, and a few others don't transfer to exchanges.  I noted that you will be at the GL in Nuevo, so these are the benefits for that level.  I think you have access to the meal plan and concierge availability.  Also as owners we don't pay MF's unless we use the week/s and the weeks do carry over internally for another year for use.
> You will see a difference from Mayan Palace to the GL.  In addition, the 2 locations seem entirely different.  You will get the complimentary transportation to the resort from the airport as you did in RM.
> I hope this helps.....I know you directed your question to Mike.



Thanks Tropical Lady....answers my question perfectly.


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## Tropical lady (Apr 9, 2011)

I meant to add that Mike may add something I might have forgotten.  Glad I could help......


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## John Cummings (Apr 9, 2011)

Sponge said:


> Grand Luxxe Residence Club               WHY SPEND BIG "BUCKS" WHEN YOU CAN TRADE IN WITH I.I. !!!!!!!!
> 
> *Moderator Note: * The list referred to below has been removed for the reason given in Sponge's posting above at April 9, 2011, 09:51 A.M.



I agree that it is easy to exchange into but your list are all off-season weeks.


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## mikenk (Apr 9, 2011)

John Cummings said:


> I agree that it is easy to exchange into but your list are all off-season weeks.



My biggest problem with those weeks is I believe most are developer deposited weeks and not owner exchange weeks. I have no problem if they they are left overs after owners have selected, but do if they deprived owners of reserving. 

Mike


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## John Cummings (Apr 9, 2011)

mikenk said:


> My biggest problem with those weeks is I believe most are developer deposited weeks and not owner exchange weeks. I have no problem if they they are left overs after owners have selected, but do if they deprived owners of reserving.
> 
> Mike



I agree. I wasn't really concerned about where the weeks came from. I was just pointing out that they are not prime season weeks.


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## robj (Apr 10, 2011)

*Question for Tropical Lady*



Tropical lady said:


> Also as owners we don't pay MF's unless we use the week/s and the weeks do carry over internally for another year for use.



Yes, no MF unless used, but if you want to carry week over internally you do have to pay the maintenance fee to do that, right?  I checked my contract and that's what it says.

Although. . .because the market was so bad last year, they allowed me to carry over my 2010 weeks without paying MF.  With the increase in traffic at Mexican tourist resorts this year already, I doubt that will be an option again in the near future.

I am reading the contract correctly about paying MF if you carry over?


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## Tropical lady (Apr 10, 2011)

*Hmmmmm....*

I can only tell you what I have and experienced.  My contract says the same as yours, but I have an addendum which states "carry over to next year with no cost".  This is in addition to the addendum for no MF until use.  Maybe I interpreted this incorrectly for carry over.  I do know that I have used a previous year's week in the next year and had not prepaid the MF until I made the reservation in that next year.  Usually we use our weeks or make reservations for the next year so we have not had an issue and like I said, that one time there was no problem using the previous year's week.


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## curtbrown (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't understand where the problem is with paying a MF on weeks that you carry over.

If you have a "no use - no pay" contract, the only reason I can see as to why you would even want to carry a week over is to use it the following year.  If you plan on using it, what's wrong with paying the MF?  Pay me now or pay me later.  

Am I the only one that doesn't see the problem here?

Curt


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## John Cummings (Apr 11, 2011)

curtbrown said:


> I don't understand where the problem is with paying a MF on weeks that you carry over.
> 
> If you have a "no use - no pay" contract, the only reason I can see as to why you would even want to carry a week over is to use it the following year.  If you plan on using it, what's wrong with paying the MF?  Pay me now or pay me later.
> 
> ...



I think the problem is that you are paying M/F on a week that you haven't used and may not use next year. If you have a "no use - no pay" then the correct thing for them to do is charge the M/F only when you use the week and not when you carry it over.


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## robj (Apr 11, 2011)

*Tropical Lady*



Tropical lady said:


> I can only tell you what I have and experienced.  My contract says the same as yours, but I have an addendum which states "carry over to next year with no cost".  This is in addition to the addendum for no MF until use.  Maybe I interpreted this incorrectly for carry over.  I do know that I have used a previous year's week in the next year and had not prepaid the MF until I made the reservation in that next year.  Usually we use our weeks or make reservations for the next year so we have not had an issue and like I said, that one time there was no problem using the previous year's week.



I seem to remember a similar addendum. I shall check closer


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## Tropical lady (Apr 11, 2011)

*no problem at all.....*

Curt,
I simply was replying to Robj's post with my contract and past experience.  I have no problem prepaying if I know for sure that I will be using that time.  It is easier, I think, to just pay when you make the reservation for a specific time frame.  Usually I have made reservations the previous year so it is not an issue.  If you prepay and can't use the time, unless you bought insurance or for a medical reason, you've lost the advantage of "no MF unless use".


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## Catelli (May 3, 2011)

Tropical lady said:


> Geez.....why don't we just have a huge continuous ongoing thread about Grupo Mayan?
> 
> Fact: No MF unless you use the week!........name another company which has this feature.



CHECK YOUR FACTS!


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## mikenk (May 3, 2011)

Catelli said:


> CHECK YOUR FACTS!



It is a fact that many GM owners have a contract that allows you not to pay MF unless you use. Not all GM contracts are like that; it depends on when you bought and what they were offering or what you could negotiate at the time.

It is also a fact that very few (if any) timeshares offer this at all.

Mike


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## aliikai2 (May 3, 2011)

*Just because you didn't read your contract*

Doesn't give you a privilege to come here and bad mouth Grupo Mayan. If I were you I would contact Karen Rose to have her help you with your issues.

fwiw, Greg


> Dear Bloggers,
> Thank you all for your comments. We do read them with much interest and at times, great concern. Whether they support us or not, they enable us to improve our overall performance.
> 
> As part of a special team committed to Customer Satisfaction, retaining our clients and complying with their needs is our main goal and will always be. We are diligently working to resolve any concerns that our customers might have and we make sure they are addressed by the corresponding responsible areas. We analyze each situation individually and make sure to provide a suitable resolution for all parties involved
> ...





Catelli said:


> CHECK YOUR FACTS!


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