# Buyers Remorse after just buying into Wyndham CLub Access...please advise



## nmusti63 (Jul 23, 2018)

Hi folks,

Need some advice on whether to rescind or not I have until Thursday to put the letter in the mail.  Sorry for the winded explanation but I figured the more I give the better answers I'll get.  

Here are the details:

Went to a presentation with the wife Saturday 7/21/18 in Myrtle Beach with the full intention of not buying.  But got sucked in when they sweetened the pot and threw in an extra 174,000 points to use between 1/1/2019 & 12/31/2020 and a couple of the extra perks I'll discuss.

We got 126,000 points for $15500, plus the 174,000 points to use in 2 years, temporary VIP status for 2 years, supposed reservation access to all 219 of their properties they showed on the map, ARP, the Reward Visa card where points earned could be used to offset the MF which are $876 annually, the Perks program (which I didn't care about either way) Club Wyndham pass, which supposedly give us access to  Worldmark resorts (which I guess is why they boasted the "219 resorts"), RCI exchange (with a cost of $239 of exchange) and finally the "Last Call program"  which supposedly gives us access to "100s" of resort with  openings available over the next 45 days that cost no points only $199-$319 for a week at that resort).   

My wife was really sold on the whole VIP thing which is supposed to allow early check-in and late check out, free upgrades on rooms and 25% of your points returned.  They had stuck us in a somewhat crappy resort (not Wyndham) on our 1st night, so I think the kicker for my wife was when she asked the Sales Manager if he could get us in a Wynhdam resort at no charge for that night and he did and said that on average we should be able to books resorts within 30 days. Which I have to admit I was impressed he got us a room during peak season for 1 night, but then thought they probably keep a handful available for just suck ploys.  

So here's where we stand.  I've got til Thursday to rescind.  We are empty nesters and both in our early-mid 50s, the wife likes to camp, I like prefer resort stays but the camping is growing on us.  Typically when we go somewhere it's for long weekends to get away or visit family which are in PA and the state of WA (usually every other year we go there).  If I had timeshare points I would probably consider some trips to the Caribbean or possible Europe or Australia (every couple of years). We like how we can book any number of days with the points and aren't confined to a full week at a specific WCA resort or so they say.  We have no way to really test this before we make the decision to keep or rescind.     I inherited time share years ago when my father passed away, from Sunterra which eventually got bought out by Diamond after I sold it.  What I didn't like about Sunterra at the time was the crazy MF and the fact they only had a handful of their own resorts in the US, so I was constantly booking things via Interval Intl.  I swore after I sold Sunterra, I would never buy from a developer and only go resale.  I've never dipped my foot in the resale market, but I see deals all the time on eBay  and other sites for WCA points at pennies for the dollar, like 300,000 points for under $5K.

So here's where I need your 2 cents, should I rescind?  And if I decide to buy say 300,000 points via the resale market, I take it I lose all the perks they supposedly gave me above?   I assume I would still have RCI, but not ARP?  Would I be able to still book short stays at all Wyndham resorts,  or just the 66 listed under a WCA brochure I found and not the plus listing which includes the WCA resorts, Pass resorts (Worldmark) and various associate hotels and resorts?  Or was the sales team BSing us when they said we would have access to all 219 resorts?   Help!!!  I'd like to hear from some other WCA owners as to how many Wyndham locations they can book.  the 219 locations is what really sold us because there are 6 in Myrtle Beach, 1 in Charleston, 1 in Pittsburgh and Worldmark resorts close to our family in WA,  and the other guide with the 66 resorts only shows one in Myrtle and none at the other locations.  Also if we aren't really going to find opening at those resorts, particularly within a 3-4 month time-frame, then I'm not sure if getting back into timeshare ownership is for me.


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## spackler (Jul 23, 2018)

nmusti63 said:


> So here's where I need your 2 cents, should I rescind?



If you have to ask, the answer is always "yes".


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 23, 2018)

you only have 1 chance to rescind.  Do it.  Then figure out what to do when you have time and knowledge.


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## CCdad (Jul 23, 2018)

If you only receive a total of 300K developer points, how are you temporary VIP (the Silver VIP level requires 400K developer points)?


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 23, 2018)

Resale does not give you clubpass which is access to the WM only branded resorts (Some resorts are dual branding with both WM and Wyndham inventory access.  The clubpass does NOT receive any of the VIP perks anyway, so no discounts or upgrades, and the reservation fee is $99 for club pass.

Resales still gives you access to all of the wyndham branded properties.  Still get RCI access.

ARP access depends on what you buy, there are some different products.  But yes you get ARP with resale too.  CWA gives you ARP at all on the inventory and resorts listed in CWA, but at the 10 month mark you get access to the rest of the wyndham branded properties.  Many of the hotels are NOT really worth the points value, in my opinion.

Opening at resort 3 -4 months out will depend on timing.  Mrytle Beach in Summer NOT not as likely.  MB in winter and shoulder, very likely.   It all depends on what you mean by 'WHEN" 3 - 4 months out is.

Early checkin can happen, but not always.  Late check out is more of an issue, but I read today that someone paid $$ for a late checkout.  Often time, especially if the day is a midweek stay (so less points) I book an extra night and leave when I want to.

You would be better off to buy a WM and a Wyndham package resale, for less than your price for temp VIP, and get all that at a fraction of the price, If you really needed good WM access.


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## nmusti63 (Jul 23, 2018)

CCdad said:


> If you only receive a total of 300K developer points, how are you temporary VIP (the Silver VIP level requires 400K developer points)?



  I wondered that as well, but it clearly states on my agreement that we are temporary Silver VIP until 12/31/2020.   Apparently it's a new sales tactic because I've read this on a couple other newbie posts.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 23, 2018)

You need to rescind.  There are so many great properties out there.  Buy something that you want to use each year, or buy something that trades well.  That temporary VIP is just that--temporary, so if your wife loves that, you need to forget that benefit because it's not yours forever.  

I love WorldMark, but there are limitations on the East Coast for Marriott.  I love the idea of a Marriott week in a place like Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head, which would be a great trader for you to get to the Caribbean via trade.  

I personally like Interval International for trading purposes.  If $1,100 + is too much in MF's for you, then you might want to look into something other than Marriott.  You mentioned something about Sunterra/ Diamond for MF's.  I don't know what numbers you were talking, but a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom in any location that is exotic and tropical is going to be a bargain at $1,100 or so in MF's.  It's about what you can get for the money you spend, not about how much the maintenance fee is each year.  $300 per night is what you will pay for a hotel room anywhere tropical, and if you want oceanfront or ocean view, you can get it with a Marriott resale week, and you will have something worth what you paid.  

Buy resale and you don't have to worry about the value going down 95% or more, as soon as your signatures are on the page.


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## breezez (Jul 23, 2018)

Rescind, Rescind, Rescind!!   Resell value of those points is about ZERO!

If you like Wyndham..   Buy resell.   I have 406K points all resell

The only thing you won’t have access to are the WM and other locations under club pass.  No big loss the Wyndham cost for these are not a good value anyway.  Plus you have very limited access and must pay $99 internal exchange fee.  Plus if you want access to them you can buy a WM 12K package for  about $2.5K.  WM get you access to II which gets you last minute and exchange deals to all Marriotts, Hyatt’s, and Sheraton’s not covered by RCI.

Last month I spent a week in Puerto Rico’s Wyndham’ Margaritaville location today I am sitting at Wyndham Clearwater Beach writing this.  I used my resell points for both locations.   In fact I was talking to a couple by pool yesterday that are VIP silver and have spent over 90K Ouch!!!  They bought Margaritaville.

Most of the other perks are smoke and mirrors.   Wyndham rewards card anyone can get one.  Nothing special here.   Using rewards for MF is a terrible value.   Plus you would have to spend a ton just to get enough to cover your MF’s.  Shopping portal is a gimmick, and VIP silver.  There goal is to get you to want it and feel special so on one of your stays they can convince you to buy the 276K more points to make it permanent and tease you again by giving you enough temp points to make you gold for a bit.   Then eventually push you Platinum

Bottom line is most Resorts at prime time you won’t get discount on any way. What you are getting discounts is on un-rented inventory at 60 day point.   So if it’s a nice resort in prime season likelyhood of it being their will be minimal.   Even if you got every reservation at a discount just figure how many years it takes to break even over saving up front on resell points.


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## Richelle (Jul 23, 2018)

I agree you should rescind.  Just to add to Sandy’s comment, you don’t get Plus Partners with resale. That gives you the ability to use your points for air far, car rentals, tickets, etc.  it’s not a good use of points.  It would be like spending $600 in MF for a $200 airplane ticket. Plus partners does give you RCI night,y stays which allows you to books a few nights instead of full weeks.  Plus the reservation fee is cheaper the the RCI reservation fee you pay for weeks.

Only you can decide what’s right for you.  You made a good choice asking for others opinions, but you decide if those views apply to your situation. I never recommend you buy 400k points to be Silver VIP. Silver VIP is not worth $100,000. It’s not even worth $25,000.  If you really have to have VIP, buy through corporate and utilize the PIC Plus program.  It’s the cheapest way to get and maintain VIP. If you do it right, you can get permanent Silver VIP for $15k or less and get bonus points.  In some cases, going that route is cheaper then Resale in the long run,  because the maintenance fees on the PIC weeks can be cheaper then points contracts. Gold or Platnium VIP are not cheaper because of the increased upfront costs.  Gold VIP can me had for less then $25,000 with PIC Plus. 

With all that said, VIP is only worth it, if you can use the benefits.  Even at $15k, Silver is not worth it, if you cannot get discounts and upgrades.  If you travel during prime, your chances of getting those are slim.  First, during prime, most inventory is gone by the 60 days mark, so discounts are not likely unless a last minute cancellation comes up.  Even if someone does cancel, you still might not get it because Platnium and Gold get first dibs in upgrades before Silver.  So the inventory that gets put back in the system goes to upgrades.  Sometimes it goes back to Wyndham to rent out.  Let’s say you do get to book a reservation at a discount.  Let’s say the reservation is 100,000 points, and you get a 25% discount making it 75,000 points.  If your points are CWA, the maintenance fees are $5.77 per 1,000 points.  You saved $144 in MF on that reservation. That reservation, after discount, cost you $432.75 in maintenance fees. The next question is, how much is the cash value of an equivalent room?  If you are staying 7 nights and the retail value is $100 a night, you’re coming out ahead, even without the discount.  Unfortunately discounts are mostly had during low season, so that $100 a night room might only be $75 a night.  Your still coming out ahead, but only by $100.  Is a $100 savings worth the extra cost of VIP?  Depends on how often you travel.  If you travel 20 times a year and save $100 each time, that’s $2,000 in savings per year.  If you only travel three times a year, the savings are only $300. 

Discounts and upgrades are not the only reason to get VIP. It’s just the one most focus on. I have gold because I can use more the just the discount and upgrade benefits. The extended time to deposit points into future years is one of the biggest reasons I went gold.  A lot of times we plan far ahead,  but sometimes plans change and we don’t need as many rooms.  Sometimes we don’t find that out until last minute.  Then we have to figure out what to do with the extra points. We have until September to push them forward.  Also, sometimes we make last minutes plans to go somewhere, so I don’t like pushing points forward until I am confident to about our vacation plans.  I also plan to use the Margaritaville access, RARP, unlimited housekeeping and reservation transaction credits, and a few others.  That works for me,  it it might not work for you.  Again, only you can chose what’s right for you.  In the meantime, rescind until you’ve worked things out. The deal you got will still be there, but you’ll also get to add a fixed or float week (purchased dirt cheap on eBay) to PIC Plus, and get more points.  I bought a $28 fixed week in eBay that gets me 254,000 points.  Not bad for $28, right?  . Just so you know, enrolling a fixed week into PIC Plus requires a minimum of 49,000 points per fixed week.  You are allowed two.  It’s not something the can be bought or transfer on eBay.

If VIP is not important, resale is by far the best value as far as upfront costs, especially if you are comparing it to buying the same amount of points you just ought.  I wouldalso  consider renting from Other owners.  There is no long term financial commitment behind the reservation cost and refundable deposits at the resort.   It’s the cheaper way to go, and if it’s a last minute reservation, some VIPs can probably get you a larger room at  a cheaper price.


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## nmusti63 (Jul 23, 2018)

Richelle said:


> I agree you should rescind.  Just to add to Sandy’s comment, you don’t get Plus Partners with resale. That gives you the ability to use your points for air far, car rentals, tickets, etc.  it’s not a good use of points.  It would be like spending $600 in MF for a $200 airplane ticket. Plus partners does give you RCI night,y stays which allows you to books a few nights instead of full weeks.  Plus the reservation fee is cheaper the the RCI reservation fee you pay for weeks.
> 
> Only you can decide what’s right for you.  You made a good choice asking for others opinions, but you decide if those views apply to your situation. I never recommend you buy 400k points to be Silver VIP. Silver VIP is not worth $100,000. It’s not even worth $25,000.  If you really have to have VIP, buy through corporate and utilize the PIC Plus program.  It’s the cheapest way to get and maintain VIP. If you do it right, you can get permanent Silver VIP for $15k or less and get bonus points.  In some cases, going that route is cheaper then Resale in the long run,  because the maintenance fees on the PIC weeks can be cheaper then points contracts. Gold or Platnium VIP are not cheaper because of the increased upfront costs.  Gold VIP can me had for less then $25,000 with PIC Plus.
> 
> ...



Thanks Richelle, very insightful.  I was leaning towards rescinding and just convinced my wife we should.  We were actually able to set up a Wyndham account to view the resorts and availability and some of the resorts we were very interested in staying at and were told we should be able to get w/o a problem had barely anything available thru the next 13 months.  I'm assuming some of the "associated" resorts/hotels don't list availability more than 6 months.   I also find it interesting that the 25% discount in points to Silver VIP is not automatic, in the sales pitch they made us believe that happened on all transactions.   

Are there any examples of rescind letters on this site? I'll search.  And from what I read in my documents I need to send it certified and get a receipt.     I think eventually we will dip our feet in the resale market, I'm going to read more on this site before we do so.  Thanks again!


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 23, 2018)

Rescind now and then do your homework on your own time and make sure you are comfortable with your decision.  A better deal exists for you through corporate telesales, I know, I just did it myself.  I just went through almost the exact same situation you did, even purchased in Myrtle Beach.  Here's a link to my entire thread - I recommend you read it in entirety:

https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...llation-period-need-some-quick-advice.275991/

Like you, my wife was sold on the VIP benefits and still is.  After I rescinded, I did my homework and we're getting ready to go VIP Gold on our own terms through corporate telesales.  At $15,500 plus closing costs for 126k/174k points package you are right around $145/1000 points - that's probably the lowest they would go (it was the lowest I could get them down to in Myrtle Beach four weeks ago).  I am closing on two 105k/295k points packages for $134/1000 points in comparison through telesales.  So a lower price point for a lower annual point package (105k annual) but with much higher bonus points (295k).  I'm also using the PIC Plus program that Richelle referenced - having already purchased two resale timeshares off eBay with REBATES back to me so the sellers are actually paying ME to take the timeshares! ($200 each once the closings process).  Feel free to PM me for details.  I have spent the better part of a month performing due diligence to get where I am are currently. 

As others have said, the BEST thing to do is to rescind, purchase resale for next to nothing, and start using your resale points and see if you get value from them.  Later, you can consider VIP.  The ONLY reason wifey and I are going VIP from the outset is because we can afford to make this purchase out of pocket out of our savings without taking much of a hit.  If you are "mortgaging" to purchase anything, don't do it, it's not worth it.  Whatever you purchase, you should be able to afford to buy outright with cash, since it will have no enduring value once purchased - other than the value it has for you and your family and the memories you will build with your purchase.  Hope this helps!


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 23, 2018)

CCdad said:


> If you only receive a total of 300K developer points, how are you temporary VIP (the Silver VIP level requires 400K developer points)?



I asked the exact same question when I signed for the 126k/174k deal first time around.  Here's how they are making the math work.  The bonus points are over a two year period by contract, so the 174k applies from 10/1/2018 - 9/30/2020.  Over that same two year period, you have 126k*2 years of annual points, or 252k points.  252k+174k=426k points.  Granted it's over a two year period, but that's how they are doing it.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 23, 2018)

BTW, with CWA purchase, IIRC that ARP (13 month window for advanced reservations) ONLY applies to the 66 resorts within CWA.  It does NOT apply to all 220 resorts in their network to the best of my understanding.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 23, 2018)

nmusti63 said:


> Thanks Richelle, very insightful.  I was leaning towards rescinding and just convinced my wife we should.  We were actually able to set up a Wyndham account to view the resorts and availability and some of the resorts we were very interested in staying at and were told we should be able to get w/o a problem had barely anything available thru the next 13 months.  I'm assuming some of the "associated" resorts/hotels don't list availability more than 6 months.   I also find it interesting that the 25% discount in points to Silver VIP is not automatic, in the sales pitch they made us believe that happened on all transactions.
> 
> Are there any examples of rescind letters on this site? I'll search.  And from what I read in my documents I need to send it certified and get a receipt.     I think eventually we will dip our feet in the resale market, I'm going to read more on this site before we do so.  Thanks again!



I PM'd you an example rescind letter that I used for my rescind a few weeks ago.  Since we both signed in SC, it should match your contractual rescission requirements - but ALWAYS follow the rescission process in your contract to the letter.  I also sent a copy of the 1st and last pages of my contract along with the rescission letter, that contained the rescission clause - though I don't think this is required.  Good luck!


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## Richelle (Jul 23, 2018)

nmusti63 said:


> Thanks Richelle, very insightful.  I was leaning towards rescinding and just convinced my wife we should.  We were actually able to set up a Wyndham account to view the resorts and availability and some of the resorts we were very interested in staying at and were told we should be able to get w/o a problem had barely anything available thru the next 13 months.  I'm assuming some of the "associated" resorts/hotels don't list availability more than 6 months.   I also find it interesting that the 25% discount in points to Silver VIP is not automatic, in the sales pitch they made us believe that happened on all transactions.
> 
> Are there any examples of rescind letters on this site? I'll search.  And from what I read in my documents I need to send it certified and get a receipt.     I think eventually we will dip our feet in the resale market, I'm going to read more on this site before we do so.  Thanks again!



I remember when we first bought, they gave us the impression it was automatic. That was 10 years ago. We didn’t buy it. 

All you really need is a letter that says you want to rescind what you purchase and a refund for any monies paid.  Include the contract number and date of purchase. Send the letter certified, so you have proof it was sent before the recession period ended. There are examples of letters online from what I hear but have not
Looked at them. Make sure you don’t answer any unknown numbers until the process is complete. Sales people have been known to try and make a last ditch effort to get you to not rescind. Sometimes they will call multiple times in a row. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian (Jul 23, 2018)

congrats on doing your research in time to rescind and save a fortune!


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 23, 2018)

Rescind instructions should be included in your package. Follow the instructions to a T.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 23, 2018)

nmusti63 said:


> I also find it interesting that the 25% discount in points to Silver VIP is not automatic, in the sales pitch they made us believe that happened on all transactions.



It is not automatic.  You only get it when you book 1 month in advance, or less.  But Plat and Gold get to pick everything that is available off first at the 2 months window and 45 day window respectively.  Silver gets the discount on whatever is NOT picked over already.


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## Richelle (Jul 23, 2018)

Sandy VDH said:


> It is not automatic.  You only get it when you book 1 month in advance, or less.  But Plat and Gold get to pick everything that is available off first at the 2 months window and 45 day window respectively.  Silver gets the discount on whatever is NOT picked over already.



Discounts are 60 days out for all levels of VIP. Upgrade windows are 60, 45, and 30 days for platinum, Gold, and Silver respectfully. You are correct that silver gets the scraps, but if they only have a one bedroom in low or high season, they have a higher likelihood of getting upgraded. If they have a three bedroom presidential, the chances of getting upgraded to a four bedroom presidential are slim to none.   The larger the room you book, the less likely you are to get upgraded because there are fewer larger rooms then one bedrooms or studios. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nmusti63 (Jul 23, 2018)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Rescind now and then do your homework on your own time and make sure you are comfortable with your decision.  A better deal exists for you through corporate telesales, I know, I just did it myself.  I just went through almost the exact same situation you did, even purchased in Myrtle Beach.  Here's a link to my entire thread - I recommend you read it in entirety:
> 
> https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...llation-period-need-some-quick-advice.275991/
> 
> ...



I will definitely PM you  when we are at a point to make some resale purchases.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 23, 2018)

Richelle said:


> Discounts are 60 days out for all levels of VIP. Upgrade windows are 60, 45, and 30 days for platinum, Gold, and Silver respectfully.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I clearly have not recovered from my 4 am flight home.  First canceling now confusing discount with upgrade windows.  Darn...I will go back and have a nap, and my brain will work better.   LOL.


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## Richelle (Jul 23, 2018)

Sandy VDH said:


> I clearly have not recovered from my 4 am flight home.  First canceling now confusing discount with upgrade windows.  Darn...I will go back and have a nap, and my brain will work better.   LOL.



It’s cool. I’m running on fumes to. I thought the one reservation transaction credit for multiple transactions on the same day was a loop hole before they changed it, and that it wasn’t a written benefit. Someone corrected me and showed me the part in the directory. I then remembered reading that and had totally forgot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Al Wilson (Jul 24, 2018)

breezez said:


> Bottom line is most Resorts at prime time you won’t get discount on any way. What you are getting discounts is on un-rented inventory at 60 day point.   So if it’s a nice resort in prime season likelyhood of it being their will be minimal.   Even if you got every reservation at a discount just figure how many years it takes to break even over saving up front on resell points.



And this un-rented inventory can be rented by anyone for about as cheap as maintenance fees through Wyndham Extra Vacations. For example, right now, you can book a full week in September at Wyndham Ocean Blvd, Myrtle Beach for under $1300.


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## WinniWoman (Jul 24, 2018)

Last but not least- RESCIND!!


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## BibbityBoppity (Jul 24, 2018)

CCdad said:


> If you only receive a total of 300K developer points, how are you temporary VIP (the Silver VIP level requires 400K developer points)?




You’re grandfathered in to the old vip standards. Sales directors get to choose which promotions they’d like to have at their site and that’s what they chose.


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