# Royal Vista 195K UDI eBAY sale -- up tick in value?



## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2013)

Okay, loaded 195K contract with all 2013 Jan-Dec Use Year points and the usual FREE closing ($299+$40 recording fees) went for:

*$1750.00*

Dang, 7 months ago, I paid for 1,000,000 RV contract a total of $1323.00 and 22 months ago, I paid for a 310,000 RV contract a total of $205.50.

 Happy Camper Time!


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## CO skier (Aug 30, 2013)

It is fun to think about, but, like the housing bubble, the prices only count if you actually sell to someone who overpays.

When the next economic downturn arrives, the $1 Wyndhams will return.


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## Explorer7 (Aug 30, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay, loaded 195K contract with all 2013 Jan-Dec Use Year points and the usual FREE closing ($299+$40 recording fees) went for:
> 
> *$1750.00*
> 
> ...


Sounds encouraging


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2013)

Why a SMART or EDUCATED consumer might overpay on a Royal Vista UDI contract?

RV is not part of CWA.
RV is the ONLY totally UDI Wyndham Points resort in South Florida.
RV is on the beach.
RV is the newest Wyndham South Florida beach.

Buyer wants a nice SNOWBIRD home for a week or ten.

Palm Aire is NOT near or on the beach - it is by a golf course on the WEST side of I-95.

Sea Gardens has lots of deeded fixed week owners and is part of CWA.

Santa Barbara is home to many Winter Snowbirds who acquired desirable fixed deeded weeks before CWA existed and after the damaging hurricane (closed resort for several years and totally remodeled). Also part of CWA.


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## timeos2 (Aug 30, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> Sounds encouraging



Taking one or two select samples from what is likely to be hundreds a day and saying it is an uptick is reaching. Only 5 years ago it wasn't uncommon to see Wyndham points sold for $.03  - .05 per point. Still a great savings over retail but not the <.01 of today. Of course Wyndham continued their war on resale values and have succeeded in lowering the average sale to that <$.01 figure, in no small part due to the $299 transfer fee among other negatives. 

While I'd love to see Wyndham points get the value they represent back (even though I no longer own any) it isn't likely to happen. And this one time sale is an anomaly not any type of trend, unfortunately.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2013)

John,
I agree with most of those statements above. I am not seeing as many RV contracts for sale as the other Pompano Beach resorts. 

And many of the SB deeds are for Fixed Weeks in the non-Snowbird season. A recent sale of a March 1/2 at SB commanded a $2875 (July auction). And a 84,000 points week went for $1802.77 (a winter studio unit week requires 126K).

PRIME weeks and units are Sea Gardens rare. Points claiming to be SG's are most likely CONVERTED fixed weeks units where the APR is ONLY the underlying unit and week. So, 182K could be a week 6 or week 26 in the Key West bldg. or the Ocean Palms bldg.


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## CO skier (Aug 30, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Why a SMART or EDUCATED consumer might overpay on a Royal Vista UDI contract?
> 
> RV is not part of CWA.
> RV is the ONLY totally UDI Wyndham Points resort in South Florida.
> ...



... or the $1750 number could be just as unreliable an indicator as the $5 and $560 in these two "something-not-quite-right" "private listing" auctions for 166K at Royal Vista:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/166-000-WYN...31013983217?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35c981a3f1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/166-000-WYN...30995376586?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35c865b9ca


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## tug1873 (Aug 30, 2013)

Better contracts are getting harder to find. I think the price may have bottomed out when rules changed for VIP a few years ago. A lot those points ended up going to people like me who use them now. Years ago I would have been a renter instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the value goes much higher then it was someday. Wyndham is a great system if you actually use the points. It's very hard to make money renting them with all the extra fees.


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## massvacationer (Aug 31, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Why a SMART or EDUCATED consumer might overpay on a Royal Vista UDI contract?
> 
> RV is not part of CWA.
> RV is the ONLY totally UDI Wyndham Points resort in South Florida.
> ...



Linda:  These are great points.  RV is a great example of a resort that has valuable ARP privileges  (UDI, lots of demand during certain months).  

There are many resorts in the Wyndham network that have maintenance fees that are average or above, but also come with great ARP.


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## chriskre (Aug 31, 2013)

This is a great resort.  
I can see why people would want to own points here.  

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## RuralEngineer (Aug 31, 2013)

*Pricing - $1,907 - Grand Desert*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-GRA...51323638238?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a840e61de

I don't get the pricing either some go for nothing while others for a couple of thousand.  Perhaps chance and patience have a lot to do with it.

Stephen


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## ronparise (Aug 31, 2013)

So  far on this thread some have said the uptick in pricing has to do with the individual resort and its ARP, some have pointed to the improving economy, some have said its because low mf contracts in the Wyndham system are in short supply and Wyndham is overall a good system (the best of the best will always carry a premium) and some have said its not an uptick at all, the high dollar sales are an anomaly.

Everybody is right except for the last guy.  The fact is prices for Wyndham points contracts have been going up. Im trying to buy the larger,  low mf stuff and bid regularly. Here are some recent sales from my ebay watch list :
Dont forget most of these add about $750 closing and transfer, and some get compensation for  past maintenance fees the seller paid, which increases the price per point considerably, especially for the smaller contracts

500  Canterbury.............. 5201  
182  Flagstaff ................. 1425
300 Palm Aire..................1575
703 Canterbury.................5934     
343 Nat Harbor..................2550
500 Smoky Mts.................2175
503 Waikiki...................... 3300
623 Ocean Blvd................4500
829 Oceanside.................3050
479 Oceanside..................2245
210 La belle......................666
182 Pagosa.......................586
294 sedona.......................1500
308 Access........................1525
301 Panama.......................3335
350 Bali Hai.......................3181
1154 National Harbor..........3950
1000 access........................6228
405 ocean walk...................1679

I have millions of points bought over the last three years. at an average mf of $5/1000. My average cost including closing and transfer is less than a dollar per 1000 points. (ie $1000 per 1 million points) 

You cant tell me that the above prices dont represent an uptick in prices and I dont care what the reason is


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 31, 2013)

Great observation, Ron.

Most of us follow or watch certain regions or resorts. I know I do. You are more of a across the board consumer of Wyndham resorts. Thanks for noting your view - prices are going up.

And I will added another reason:
The internet usage to buy stuff has become MAINSTREAM and available to many more people. People in general CHECK the internet to buy new cars, price home owners' insurance, seek doctors reviews and buy houses. eBAY and Craigslist are the most popular sites to check for buying all forms of used (and some new) items.


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## ronparise (Aug 31, 2013)

RuralEngineer said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-GRA...51323638238?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a840e61de
> 
> I don't get the pricing either some go for nothing while others for a couple of thousand.  Perhaps chance and patience have a lot to do with it.
> 
> Stephen



That Grand Desert deal would fit right in the list I have in my above post. But there are still deals to be had. especially if you are willing to buy from an unknown seller, or one with a bad reputation, or bid on a deal where there are clear mistakes or omissions in the ad...and sometimes you just get lucky

Like this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300931508705?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


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## bnoble (Aug 31, 2013)

Wyndham is not the only corner of the timeshare market seeing some price recovery.  I'm seeing this discussion with other systems (and the market in general) both here and OT.


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## ronparise (Aug 31, 2013)

bnoble said:


> Wyndham is not the only corner of the timeshare market seeing some price recovery.  I'm seeing this discussion with other systems (and the market in general) both here and OT.



If this keeps up I have a new retirement plan....instead of buy and hold to rent for income, Ill just sell out and invest the cash in something safe like junk bonds or maybe sell some naked puts


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## Kidpolska (Aug 31, 2013)

Maybe I am a good example of what is going on...I am new to the market and actively looking to buy.  I knew nothing of TS two months ago, but after going to a Wyndham presentation and not buying and then doing lots of research on TUG,  I decided Wyndham was for us.  I know we need 231-308k to meet our goals, and I am willing to pay what some of you might call a "premium" price to go with a "reputable" seller.  Even if I wind up spending $5k for my points, it's still a better deal than the $67k Wyndham wanted me to pay.  Part of me is considering just using a broker, since I'm not sure that I trust myself on the "due diligence" stuff...


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## Bigrob (Aug 31, 2013)

ronparise said:


> That Grand Desert deal would fit right in the list I have in my above post. But there are still deals to be had. especially if you are willing to buy from an unknown seller, or one with a bad reputation, or bid on a deal where there are clear mistakes or omissions in the ad...and sometimes you just get lucky
> 
> Like this one
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300931508705?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649



That really was a great find,and a lesson to the seller to put the number of points in the title.


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## pier386 (Sep 2, 2013)

CO skier said:


> ... or the $1750 number could be just as unreliable an indicator as the $5 and $560 in these two "something-not-quite-right" "private listing" auctions for 166K at Royal Vista:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/166-000-WYN...31013983217?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35c981a3f1
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/166-000-WYN...30995376586?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35c865b9ca




I believe it was announced 6 months ago or so that RV would now be a part of CWA, there is a thread on here somewhere.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 4, 2013)

pier386 said:


> I believe it was announced 6 months ago or so that RV would now be a part of CWA, there is a thread on here somewhere.



I looked around for that and I have checked the NEW Wyndham resorts directory -- Royal Vista is NOT a CWA resort nor is Wyndham Santa Barbara.

Mostly resorts are less desirable with many FIXED WEEK intervals are CWA resorts - like Palm Aire and Sea Gardens. The Santa Barbara resort has gotten great reviews since it reopened - I am a little surprised that it is NOT a CWA resort due to the HIGH foreclosure numbers due to the hurricane damage.

Royal Vista is still SOLD on the 9th floor sales office - I just avoid them like the plague as it is NEVER a good experience. The food is horrible and if you know the layout, you can "dine & dash" without doing the meeting :ignore:.


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## Myxdvz (Sep 4, 2013)

According to this page, Santa Barbara is part of CWA... no?

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts....enefits/program_benefits_clubwyndhamaccess.go


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## pier386 (Sep 4, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I looked around for that and I have checked the NEW Wyndham resorts directory -- Royal Vista is NOT a CWA resort nor is Wyndham Santa Barbara.



This post said that both have been added to CWA.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186891&highlight=royal+vista


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 4, 2013)

Can't wait for the Royal Vista HOA meeting this winter ... that should be a very big UNHAPPINESS.


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## Myxdvz (Sep 4, 2013)

pier386 said:


> This post said that both have been added to CWA.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186891&highlight=royal+vista



It seems that the post was copied and pasted from the Wyndham site which does change... So, I wouldn't go with the post, I would go with what's on the site.


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## ronparise (Sep 4, 2013)

pier386 said:


> This post said that both have been added to CWA.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186891&highlight=royal+vista



Santa Barbara is (limited inventory) according to the website. Royal Vista is not


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## markb53 (Sep 4, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Santa Barbara is (limited inventory) according to the website. Royal Vista is not



On the Wyndham website Royal Vista is not showing as part of CWA.
Santa Barbara is showing as part of CWA
As Ron pointed out Santa Barbara show limited inventory. Which I believe I read somewhere  that limited inventory mean 50 units or fewer available to the CWP.

If you look as the CWA list for Santa Barbara, is says very limited inventory. Which I believe means 10 units or fewer available to CWA.


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## NHTraveler (Sep 4, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Can't wait for the Royal Vista HOA meeting this winter ... that should be a very big UNHAPPINESS.



Care to share why?  I'm interested...lol.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 4, 2013)

NHTraveler said:


> Care to share why?  I'm interested...lol.



The winter clan at Royal Vista is basicly made up of Platinum VIP owners who own ONLY Royal Vista points and roast there all winter/Snowbird season. Over 1 MM to 2MM points. They go to the annual HOA meeting to direct the future of their resort. Might be 25-35 such owners in attendance. Not a dumb bunch. They brought what they wanted, paid for what they know they should get and have a vested interest in the status quo - their 8-10 Winter weeks at their beachfront resort. Most have outlast multiple resort managers, know the front desk supervisors and their interests, and generally are a very nice bunch of people. It tend to be a male centered world - but they totally welcome me and my large ownership of RV points.

They are partial to the belief, buy where you want to go and owners get first pick. We pay the bill, we care for the place and our families stay here. I have not experience any other Wyndham resort with this concentrated multi-million points owners AND who know each other.

Since I live in the northeastern part of the USA and in/near several large cities,  I would call these guys OLD GUARD. Interlopers are there for a week or two - the lower Gold or VIP owners.

So with CWA and multiple owners, it is conceivable most of the President's B-day weeks could be booked by those owners. Or large blocks the Easter Week reservations --- 35+ big RV CPW owners are generally only booking back to back weeks leaving the other 60 units open to other RV owners.  It would take ONLY about 12,000,000 points in CWA to book ALL those remaining units for that one week during ARP.  

Remember, CWP owners where promised that ARP would be their booking window - yes, the averages say NOT every CWP owner is going to book during the Winter SNOWBIRD season every year - but in CWA, the ARP points for RV will be BOOKED SOLID every year, because other CWA owners will want to go their, every year during the winter. Much bigger POT of CWA owners who can change their ARP window to where they want to go.

I suspect, it will become one of the HARDEST ARPs bookings from Christmas Week to end of April ...


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## timeos2 (Sep 4, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I suspect, it will become one of the HARDEST ARPs bookings from Christmas Week to end of April ...



I always enjoy this type of speculation. The fact of the matter is we wanted to visit RV (one of our favorite Wyndham resorts) twice during our ownership. Both times we were able to obtain it, in the size unit we wanted. Once was News Years - Y2K and in the Penthouse no less, the other an Easter/Spring Break week in 2009.  We got the Y2K week in October - just 3 months from the use date. We got the Easter date in July or about 8- 9 months ahead of use. We did not have ARP or VIP.  Like most of our Wyndham uses we just put in what we wanted, where & when within a reasonable time frame and we were able to get it. 

And every time we were told (by sales of course) that "you'll never get in here without owning" yet, as they wanted to ignore, there we were!  There are very few Wyndham resorts and only in very narrow, specific times that you cannot obtain easily just using your points. It held true for our near 20 years of ownership and it was supposedly not true then so I doubt it's true now. Buying into the theory of required ARP or VIP or whatever they are pushing now isn't a good ownership approach.  Buy the points you need and make timely requests and you'll likely be just fine.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 4, 2013)

John,
What I am saying that could change for the ARP owners of RV, not all want to go during the Xmas-Easter time frame EVERY YEAR. 50 weeks of point ownership does NOT go into 13 weeks of units.

Royal Vista CWP owners do go other places. What I am saying that, CWA has a much BIGGER pot of owners and those owners could percentage WISE, book all the CWA ARP points deeded at RV during ONLY the winter SNOWBIRD season ... that would hamper GREATLY the percentage of units OPEN to people (like you were) to book at the 10 month window. Or RV owners who called in an hour after the ARP window opened.

Additionally, those units that YOU booked at RV could very well have been cancellations of weeks booked during ARP by CWP owners ... change of plans, health issues, job relocations, shifting vacation schedules, other vacation options, etc.


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## timeos2 (Sep 5, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> John,
> What I am saying that could change for the ARP owners of RV, not all want to go during the Xmas-Easter time frame EVERY YEAR. 50 weeks of point ownership does NOT go into 13 weeks of units.
> 
> Royal Vista CWP owners do go other places. What I am saying that, CWA has a much BIGGER pot of owners and those owners could percentage WISE, book all the CWA ARP points deeded at RV during ONLY the winter SNOWBIRD season ... that would hamper GREATLY the percentage of units OPEN to people (like you were) to book at the 10 month window. Or RV owners who called in an hour after the ARP window opened.
> ...



Since CWA is still relatively new and RV is a mature resort the actual time in CWA is likely very low.  IF (a very big IF) Wyndham is distributing use time fairly according to percentage ownership & not allowing unfair loading of CWA time in a concentrated period there is no way that the small amount of CWA claims should impact owners there. Of course who knows how fair Wyndham will be - especially if they can help sales - a problem that exists throughout any system under the thumb  of a developer.


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## CO skier (Dec 19, 2013)

ronparise said:


> So  far on this thread some have said the uptick in pricing has to do with the individual resort and its ARP, some have pointed to the improving economy, some have said its because low mf contracts in the Wyndham system are in short supply and Wyndham is overall a good system (the best of the best will always carry a premium) and some have said its not an uptick at all, the high dollar sales are an anomaly.
> 
> Everybody is right except for the last guy.  The fact is prices for Wyndham points contracts have been going up.



It looks like the last guy may have been right, too.  The $1 Royal Vista (203,000 points) is back, at least seasonally.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310818691612?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## lcml11 (Dec 19, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> John,
> I agree with most of those statements above. I am not seeing as many RV contracts for sale as the other Pompano Beach resorts.
> 
> And many of the SB deeds are for Fixed Weeks in the non-Snowbird season. A recent sale of a March 1/2 at SB commanded a $2875 (July auction). And a 84,000 points week went for $1802.77 (a winter studio unit week requires 126K).
> ...



I think you are right.  Just reviewed E-Bay.  I think this resort is going or has gone the way of Myrtle Beach resorts and Smokey Mountain.  Few and far between with very limited selection for units.

Ron's observation in other posts on Las Vegas may have merit, there appears to be a number left in that town, but not many in Old Town.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 27, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> I...We did not have ARP or VIP.  Like most of our Wyndham uses we just put in what we wanted, where & when within a reasonable time frame and we were able to get it.
> 
> And every time we were told (by sales of course) that "you'll never get in here without owning" yet, as they wanted to ignore, there we were!  .....



John,
There are SEVERAL differences with CWA resorts - many of those points are CONVERTED FIXED WEEKs and the inventory is still ONLY the underlying deed. Santa Barbara and Sea Gardens have MOST of the PRIME WINTER WEEKS still as FIXED WEEK OWNERSHIP -- hence, very limited inventory during the PRIME seasons (esp the winter Snowbird time, President's B-Day Easter and Christmas). Royal Vista is a PURE UDI Points resort - there would be NO LIMIT of where the points come from to book Week 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 or 11 -- just the LIMIT on available total resort units (96 units either 1bdr or 2bdr). ARP is just the same for CWP and CWA ... except ANY and ALL deed CWP owners at Royal Vista are booking a CHAIN of weeks as their Winter (beachfront) homes - spreading the demand over a booking every week with their personal schedules. CWA is NOT limited to HOW many units it can grab from the available pool or where/when its UDI points can be used. It is just HOW fast they can get thru on the phone line as CAN I and the other CWP ARP owners.

And as for booking XMAS and NYE 7 months out at RV --- yes, I have done that also. Most Wyndham owners have a Jan-Dec Use year - I usually am out of RV ARP points in NOV 13 months outs PLUS I own 4+ Fixed Deeded units for week 52 (some are lockoffs also). And in years past, I try not to have points units reserved to be cancelled 20 days before the end of the USE YEAR.

Oh well, this will make my FIXED Winter Weeks at Santa Barbara MORE dear to me ... I can stay over there and not be worried about being a homeless Snowbird and also saving $.56 per 1000 points by not being in the points system because my old, crippled fingers and 3 phone lines did not hit the redial fast enough to book by Royal Vista winter condo for 201X.

And I can think about selling my RV points ...


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## CO skier (Feb 28, 2014)

Since the 2008 recession, Wyndham timeshare pricing seems to reach a low point in the Dec. - Mar. timeframe.  This year is generally following that trend.

For anyone interested in Royal Vista, there is a 154K contract available in the TUG Marketplace.  With the seller prepaying the 2014 dues and paying the closing costs and transfer fees, they are essentially paying the buyer $900 to take over the timeshare.

For anyone thinking about a Club Wyndham purchase, now is the time to watch for a bargain.


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