# Applying for Disability - advice? attorney?



## pjrose (Nov 19, 2011)

DD, 19, is going to apply for disability, based on a cardio-vascular issue that has resulted in 49 syncopes (faints) in four years, and many many episodes of dizziness.  She has only held one job, but fainted after a short time and the cardiologist wouldn't give her the ok to go back.  She's also fainted many times at school, and she can't drive because of this.

What's the process?  She has made a phone call and appointment - we are pleased that she is taking the initiative, would it be better if she got an attorney?   Any advice?


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## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2011)

I asked about this recently and got some good info. in this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154503


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## funtime (Nov 19, 2011)

If you secure the services of an attorney make sure you get one that is board certified or othewise recognized by your state as an expert in disability laws.  First timers are often turned down.  Funtime


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## Passepartout (Nov 19, 2011)

PJ, click on Denise's link and read #46. It should give you some guidance.

Sounds like a slam-dunk for approval, but it helps to have support on your side.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Nov 19, 2011)

All we have done so far is see my son's Psychiatrist.  She was very non-informative.  We asked her if she would support a disability application and her answer was that the Dr. had nothing to do with it - that SSN would request his files, and that everything would depend on the files.  When we asked her if she though he qualified - she reiterated the same answer.


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## Talent312 (Nov 19, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> All we have done so far is see my son's Psychiatrist.  She was very non-informative.  We asked her if she would support a disability application and her answer was that the Dr. had nothing to do with it - that SSN would request his files, and that everything would depend on the files.  When we asked her if she though he qualified - she reiterated the same answer.



This "not my call" line means the psychiatirst is prevaricating and not in his corner.
He needs one who is more forthcoming, willing to take a stand and needed, to testify.

His initial application will be denied, so prepare for an appeal from the get-go.
Consult a disability attorney and ask him or her to recommend a psychiatrist...
One who is familiar with the criteria that's used and willing to render an expert opinion.


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## am1 (Nov 19, 2011)

I think the "not my call" is the professional way to go about it.  If they tell the person its not likely they may be harassed.  

To me their job is to evaluate and give the files to SS.  From there SS takes over.


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> PJ, click on Denise's link and read #46. It should give you some guidance.
> 
> Sounds like a slam-dunk for approval, but it helps to have support on your side.
> 
> Jim



I read it a few times - still very confused.  

PJ


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## e.bram (Nov 20, 2011)

My wife is a shrink. She treats people, not help them get on welfare.


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## Talent312 (Nov 20, 2011)

am1 said:


> I think the "not my call" is the professional way to go about it.



Its the professional way of saying, "I don't have a clue."
Objectively, it may be true, but its not what the patient needs to know.
He needs to know if he's got a shot or barking up the wrong tree.
For that, he should consult someone better equipped to give an analysis.


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## stugy (Nov 20, 2011)

Social security disability is not welfare.  Most psychiatrists resent being called " a shrink."
Pat


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

stugy said:


> Social security disability is not welfare.



I'm not sure this is 100% true.  I'm not saying Social Security Disability isn't a necessary part of our society.  I just believe that in some cases if not welfare, it is close.

George


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## Passepartout (Nov 20, 2011)

I'd suggest anyone who doubts that SSDI recipients are simply the neediest of the needy should attend a hearing where the determination of award is made. These are not people who WON'T work. There simply is no position in the economy that they are capable of performing. If there were, they would not be awarded benefits.

SSDI is insurance. Not welfare. It is the final safety net that all Americans have when all else, and every other resource has either failed or has tapped out.

Before judging, walk a mile in their shoes. 

Jim


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## SueDonJ (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> I'm not sure this is 100% true.  I'm not saying Social Security Disability isn't a necessary part of our society.  I just believe that in some cases if not welfare, it is close.
> 
> George



I'm fairly certain that welfare, in all its forms, IS a necessary part of our society.     I never did understand why it has a negative connotation.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 20, 2011)

PJ, you'll need to be strong and insistent as you go through this process.  The only suggestions I can give you are - make sure you take copies of every single piece of paper that you get your hands on, keep a detailed log of every phone call, and keep everything filed in one place in good order.  (When my mom had to stand before a judge and fight for SSDI for my dad, she won because she was able to put her hands on a single doctor's report at the minute the judge asked for it.)  Good luck, to you and your daughter.


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

My daughter WANTS to work.  She has wanted a job since she was 15, and got a position as a cashier at that time.  After a few weeks she blacked out and hit her head.  The store was great at keeping her job open, but the cardiologist wouldn't let her go back, and meanwhile she kept having more syncopes.  

She also WANTS to go to school full-time and be around people.  Instead she is taking some online classes, partly because of the syncopes.  

She is bored stiff being stuck at home, hesitant to even walk down the drive to pick up the mail, because last time she did she had a syncope and was lying there with her head in the street.  She can't drive because she might have a syncope; she bought a bicycle to be able to get out and maybe get a bit of exercise - she blacked out and fell off in the road.  The person who stopped and called 911 said the car in front of him had just driven by, coming close to running over her.  

Again, she wants to work.  She continues to work on her degree in the hope that she will be able to if/when this condition is brought under control - but so far, four years and tons of doctors and tests, it's not.  

PJ


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## timeos2 (Nov 20, 2011)

e.bram said:


> My wife is a shrink. She treats people, not help them get on welfare.



e.bram - bravo!  If you are indeed in need of disability SS it is a simple process to qualify - no outside help or expensive (as in a good percentage of YOUR rightful payment redirected to them) lawyers required.

Say what you want about the Government but this group - SS Disability - seems to be on top of things.  Yes they can be beaten - probably unfairly and to the detriment of those paying and truly in need - but overall our interaction with them have shown them to  be fair and evenhanded.  I salute them and the extremely tough and often heartbreaking job they have to do.  

As for responsiveness they get a near zero score - they do little or nothing to update you on any status.  But give them time and a real situation and they seem to get the right answer with relatively little input need from the claimant.


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## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2011)

e.bram said:


> My wife is a shrink. She treats people, not help them get on welfare.



That was really offensive - but you already know that don't you?

As I recall - you posted previously that she is an attorney?  Is she an astronaut and an Indian Chief too?


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> SSDI is insurance. Not welfare.



Question - is it a prerequisite that everyone who collects Social Security Disability has paid into Social Security. * If it is,  I agree it is insurance.*  If not, it can be welfare.  Again, I'm not saying it isn't a necessary part of our society. 

George


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## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2011)

The two people in question here are the children of Tuggers who both have serious medical conditions, please take that into consideration.  

Also - If this becomes a contentious social issue - I'm going to shut it down.


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## Passepartout (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> Question - is it a prerequisite that everyone who collects Social Security Disability has paid into Social Security. * If it is,  I agree it is insurance.*  If not, it can be welfare.  Again, I'm not saying it isn't a necessary part of our society.
> 
> George



George, *SSDI* is insurance. Benefits require a certain number of paid quarters. There are exceptions wherein adult children of deceased people can use the quarters of parents and for young people. *SSI*- Supplemental Security Income- is welfare.

Jim


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## e.bram (Nov 20, 2011)

Denise:
No. Just a doctor(which she practices), an attorney(2 states) and trophy wife.


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> The two people in question here are the children of Tuggers who both have serious medical conditions, please take that into consideration.
> 
> Also - If this becomes a contentious social issue - I'm going to shut it down.



I hope that instead of shutting it down you can just nuke the contentious posts.


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> *The two people in question here are the children of Tuggers who both have serious medical conditions, please take that into consideration.  *
> 
> Also - If this becomes a contentious social issue - I'm going to shut it down.



And I might add, TUGgers who rarely if ever are critical or cause or take sides in contentious discussions.

I need information to help my daughter who, as stated above, has a serious medical condition, and I would be disappointed if contentious and critical commentary caused this quest for advice and information to be shut down.


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## e.bram (Nov 20, 2011)

pj;
Take your daughter to a major medical center in New York(ie New York Pres), Philly, Boston(Harvard) etc for a work up.


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## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2011)

pjrose said:


> I hope that instead of shutting it down you can just nuke the contentious posts.



Will do!


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

e.bram said:


> pj;
> Take your daughter to a major medical center in New York(ie New York Pres), Philly, Boston(Harvard) etc for a work up.



Thank you, we've done that in Philly.  Her medical condition is puzzling, but we keep trying!  

PJ


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## shorts (Nov 20, 2011)

PJ,

I have applied for and been awarded SSDI. Sent you an email with a little bit about the experience.


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> Question - is it a prerequisite that everyone who collects Social Security Disability has paid into Social Security. * If it is,  I agree it is insurance.*  If not, it can be welfare.  Again, I'm not saying it isn't a necessary part of our society.


 
Anyone who interprets my comment as trying to make a social issue out of this clearly misunderstood the intent of my question.  When I was a kid I was told to ask questions when there was something I didn't know.  I guess that no longer works in the politically correct world we live in.

George


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## DeniseM (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> Anyone who interprets my comment as trying to make a social issue out of this clearly misunderstood the intent of my question.  When I was a kid I was told to ask questions when there was something I didn't know.  I guess that no longer works in the politically correct world we live in.
> 
> George



You should try walking in the shoes of the parent of a handicapped or ill child before you make statements like that.  You have no idea how difficult, and frustrating, and heart breaking it is.  PJ and I have both been through the ringer with our kids, and comments like that are just thoughtless.


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## teepeeca (Nov 20, 2011)

*PJ ---*

PJ ---sent you an e-mail.

Tony


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## bogey21 (Nov 20, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> You should try walking in the shoes of the parent of a handicapped or ill child before you make statements like that.  You have no idea how difficult, and frustrating, and heart breaking it is.  PJ and I have both been through the ringer with our kids, and comments like that are just thoughtless.



This is my last comment on this board.  All I was doing was trying to solicit information.  My question was totally misconstrued by moderator.

*I am gone forever.  Good Luck to you all!!*

George


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## jlf58 (Nov 20, 2011)

Denise

Sorry but I agree with George. Asking if its welfare was not a shot at anyone and in  fact you could make the case that what you think welfare represents is why you got insulted. George, it's the internet, be a little moe thick skinned. Denise is just a bit touchy today  




bogey21 said:


> This is my last comment on this board.  All I was doing was trying to solicit information.  My question was totally misconstrued by moderator.
> 
> *I am gone forever.  Good Luck to you all!!*
> 
> George


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## Passepartout (Nov 20, 2011)

Sheesh! I thought George asked a reasonable question back in #19, and I thought I answered it in #21. Oh well. Ya can't please 'em all.

Jim


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## pjrose (Nov 20, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> Anyone who interprets my comment as trying to make a social issue out of this clearly misunderstood the intent of my question.  When I was a kid I was told to ask questions when there was something I didn't know.  I guess that no longer works in the politically correct world we live in.
> 
> George





bogey21 said:


> This is my last comment on this board.  All I was doing was trying to solicit information.  My question was totally misconstrued by moderator.
> 
> *I am gone forever.  Good Luck to you all!!*
> 
> George





Passepartout said:


> Sheesh! I thought George asked a reasonable question back in #19, and I thought I answered it in #21. Oh well. Ya can't please 'em all.
> 
> Jim



I saw no issues with any of your posts here George - please don't leave us!  

And in a lame attempt to answer/address your original question, apparently there isn't a requirement that a potential recipient has paid into Social Security.  His/her potential disability payments could be based on payments of his/her parents.  I also believe that in some cases it could be a "welfare" type payment for a low-income disabled person without Social Security built up, but I find nothing contentious about that nor about your question asking about it.  

PJ


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## geoand (Nov 21, 2011)

I didn't see anything constructive about Bogey's comments.  The Social Security Administration administers 2 disability programs.  The fica taxes that are paid to the IRS funds, Retirement benefits, Survivor benefits, Disability benefits and Hospital Insurance (Part A of Medicare).  Part B of medicare is funded by the premiums you pay once you are on Medicare.

As President Roosevelt is noted for the creation of Social Security, President Nixon is noted for the creation of the Supplemental Security Income program.  This program was created to essentially federalize each State's welfare programs.

As to how that information is pertinent to pjrose's request is beyond me.

My advice is to file an application for disability benefits.  The claims representative will take an application under both programs and then the claims rep will be able to make a formal decision on whether your daughter has enough quarters of coverage to be insured for SSDI.  If you and or your daughter's father receive SS retirement or disability benefits or your daughter's father is deceased, the claims rep will take an application for auxiliary benefits on the eligible worker's record.  The claims rep will also help you fill out the medical questionnaire and obtain necessary medical releases so that the state agency that makes the medical determination can gather the necessary medical records.  If there is insufficient medical data to make the determination the state agency will authorize specific tests or exams at federal expense to gather this info.  Your daughter's medical provider will be given the opportunity to provide these tests or exams.  A couple of things you will need to keep in mind.  Your daughter is of age and will need to file the application.  You can certainly assist her.  The other thing you need to keep in mind is that medical practitioners generally do not keep the kind of information that will help to determine the degree of disability.  They keep records so that they can treat the condition.

There is no harm in filing for the benefits now.  There may be harm in filing for them later because the life of the application has a limited retroactive life.

Obtaining an attorney now imho is not necessary.

The medical evidence needs to show that the individual is unable to work at a substantial gainful level.  The only way you will know this is to file the application.

Another item I just remembered is that one's personal doctor may state that one is totally disable and provide that statement is the state agency.  That statement needs to be supported by the data that the doctor has in the medical records.

A quick summary - - The process is the same whether you are filing for SSDI or the Supplemental Security Income program.

I hope this helps.


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## Pat H (Nov 21, 2011)

I also recommend not starting with an attorney. If she gets turned down, then hire one. The attorney gets 20 or 25% of what they obtain for their client. My nephew gets it because he has Aspergers. However, I do know several people who were able to obtain disability who could have worked if they wanted to. That includes my ex and my sister. OTOH, I also know people who would easily qualify but continue to work thru their pain/disability and go to work. Neither of those comments are meant to cast any doubt on pj's posts.


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## stmartinfan (Nov 21, 2011)

geoand said:


> A quick summary - - The process is the same whether you are filing for SSDI or the Supplemental Security Income program.



This was an excellent explanation of the two programs. There are some other significant differences in how the programs work once someone is approved. (The numbers that follow are based on my recollection, so they may not be exact but should be close.)  

SSI pays a very low amount - Many people get less than $800 a month.  And the recipient cannot have any significant assets - no more than $2,000.  If they have a car, it's got to be worth less than that amount.  It really is designed to be a "safety net" to help those who otherwise would be unable to provide food and shelter for themselves because of disability.  Of course, in many places that's not enough to pay rent and buy much food, much less anything else and the individual's financial records are monitored, I believe.  The one additional benefit is that in many states, qualifying for SSI also automatically ensures that you will also qualify for your state's medical assistance program for the disabled, giving you some medical coverage.

Because SSDI is based on someone's earnings they payment is higher - like Social Security retirement payments, it's linked to how much someone paid in.  But of course, it's still less than most people would make in a paying job.  It also doesn't have the stringent limits on assets, so recipients have more flexibility in managing their lives.  

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting article today on how rapidly disability has grown, most recently likely because the recession has pushed people who might been able to work through their disability into the SSDI system because jobs just weren't available.  There's also an article about the huge backlog that's existed in the system, based on needing doctors to review all the applicant records. There's a battle between the doctors doing the review, who believe it's important to have a medical background in the disability issue being assessed, rather than just being an MD, and the SS system which disagrees and wants to push the review faster.  It's also got an interesting map that shows how some parts of the US - primarily in the SE, many more applicants get approved.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 21, 2011)

bogey21 said:


> This is my last comment on this board.  All I was doing was trying to solicit information.  My question was totally misconstrued by moderator.
> 
> *I am gone forever.  Good Luck to you all!!*
> 
> George





Fletch said:


> Denise
> 
> Sorry but I agree with George. Asking if its welfare was not a shot at anyone and in  fact you could make the case that what you think welfare represents is why you got insulted. George, it's the internet, be a little moe thick skinned. Denise is just a bit touchy today



I see it as a loaded question. There is really no need to know the answer, it was meant IMO to cause a stir. It really didn't provide any information to the OPs situation nor would the answer. His comments in response to his own question (he bolded that comment even in post #19) was just meant to cause trouble. JMO. Why was it so important for boogey to know the answer? He knew that the post would cause an issue.


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## am1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Why does it matter if it is considered insurance or welfare as long as the people that are needing it are getting it.  

I am sure I would not agree with all the policies but as long as people are getting what they are entitled to it is a good program.


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## pjrose (Nov 21, 2011)

*Please don't get the thread closed*

People, please, my DD is ill and unable to work.  She would far rather work than sit at home collecting money from anyone.  I continue to be optimistic that the next doctor or the next med or the next test will help her to manage or eliminate her condition so she can walk outside to get the mail without fainting in the street as she did last week, so she can take a bath without feeling like she is dizzy and might faint (she can't even be alone while in the bathtub!), so she can stand in line at a store without blacking out, so she can walk the dog without fainting in the street, so she can go to the bathroom at school without fainting in the hall, so she can go to a church youth group without fainting, so she can push a grocery cart without falling backwards and having a concussion - all of these and many more have happened - she has even slid out of wheelchairs when we've gone somewhere with a lot of walking and felt we needed to resort to using one. 

She is on first-name basis with ER and ambulance staffs. Until/unless this is under control she can't drive, she can't go anywhere alone, and she can't work. 

Many TUGgers have been very helpful here, with emails and PMs.  I'm sure there's still more helpful info out there, and I'd like to keep the thread open for that.

However, if people get off the original topic of my request for information and start discussing/debating/bickering about welfare, entitlement, insurance, or whatever it "really" is, we're gonna get closed.

Thank you


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## timeos2 (Nov 22, 2011)

PJ - bottom line from my experience is apply for her without any legal help to start. That is your best chance of getting whatever she is entitled to and maximizing the actual dollars received. Involving any legal aid on a paid or contingency basis simply means that what she actually gets in pocket will unnecessarily be reduced by XX%.  

If you apply and the research SS does results in a denial of the claim THEN sign up for an attorney's help (or perhaps if needed a legal aid type) as trying to fight a denial can be a very tough road.  But prematurely involving a lawyer would be needed money lost.  Good luck to her & we're hoping a way to control the problem is found for everyone's sake.


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## laurac260 (Nov 22, 2011)

Pj, my dh was able to successfully procure Ssdi without an attorney , and was approved 1st time thru .  Pm me if you'd like to discuss .


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## Brett (Nov 22, 2011)

The Wall Street Journal just ran an article on Social Security Disability insurance
yesterday
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904577016221945984492.html


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks, Brett - looks like I have to subscribe, but that's ok!

All...DD got a letter today denying her claim.  This is even before the meeting that SS scheduled for her for next week.  How they denied it so quickly is beyond me - that isn't even enough time to gather the reams of medical records!  

Meanwhile, has been dizzy all week and BP today = 90/60.  

I'll be in touch privately with those of you who have sent me info


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## Passepartout (Nov 22, 2011)

Just a hunch here, PJ. We think it's because of her lack of eligibility. Not enough covered quarters. It has nothing to do with her medical condition. As you point out, they haven't had time to amass her files let alone medically qualify her.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Nov 22, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Just a hunch here, PJ. We think it's because of her lack of eligibility. Not enough covered quarters. It has nothing to do with her medical condition. As you point out, they haven't had time to amass her files let alone medically qualify her.
> 
> Jim



Jim - I think she's only about 19 - doesn't she qualify under her parents Social Security Benefits until she's 25?


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## geoand (Nov 22, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> Just a hunch here, PJ. We think it's because of her lack of eligibility. Not enough covered quarters. It has nothing to do with her medical condition. As you point out, they haven't had time to amass her files let alone medically qualify her.
> 
> Jim



I agree, the decision was not a medical decision.  The denial letter should tell you exactly the reason for the denial.  This would be dealing with the SS Disability Insurance.

The other quick denial reason would be based on either too much income or assets and this would be on the Supplemental Security Income application.


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## Passepartout (Nov 22, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Jim - I think she's only about 19 - doesn't she qualify under her parents Social Security Benefits until she's 25?



I know her age, but am not aware of the cutoff age for filing using her (non SS collecting) parent(s) for qualification. As geoand says, the reason for denial will be on the letter. I was only conjecturing. Henceforth I will keep my speculations to myself.  JR


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## presley (Nov 22, 2011)

PJRose, if you have some time later, can you please share with me anything medically you have learned?  I have a 20 year old daughter who blacks out frequently - only faints sometimes, but her blood pressure is always very low when she does.  She has seen several doctors who tell her that it isn't normal to be like that, but after they order labs, they tell her she is healthy.   

She works and for the most part, can function.  Sometimes there is no warning, though.  Just wondering if you have figured out anything regarding your daughter.


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

I told her to collect all the paperwork and letters; I'm going to see her Friday and Saturday.  

I recall an earlier thread a few months ago - I am pretty sure Elaine and Denise were participants - that's the one that discussed something along the lines of applying before age 25 in order to qualify under the parents' SSI rather than the child's.....

We need to find out if DH and/or I need to actually need to have applied for our own SSI or be receiving it....

Also, she may have put down her boyfriend's income as the household income, and that relationship isn't necessarily permanent or even long-term. 

Will find out more over the weekend when I can actually look at the paperwork (or whatever she has saved - may not be savvy enough to keep everything the way we would).


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## laurac260 (Nov 22, 2011)

presley said:


> PJRose, if you have some time later, can you please share with me anything medically you have learned?  I have a 20 year old daughter who blacks out frequently - only faints sometimes, but her blood pressure is always very low when she does.  She has seen several doctors who tell her that it isn't normal to be like that, but after they order labs, they tell her she is healthy.
> 
> She works and for the most part, can function.  Sometimes there is no warning, though.  Just wondering if you have figured out anything regarding your daughter.



I have the same "condition".  So does my mom, so did my grandma, and I am thinking, my daughter will too.  I've had all tests run as well, I am as fit as a fiddle.  I am borderline hypotensive, borderline hypoglycemic, borderline anemic, BUT, I am in the average on all these, I just hug the low end of each.  You don't skip meals when you can help it, get up slowly when you rise, especially in the morning, make sure you eat your protein, hydrate with fruit juice when you feel "light in your loafers", and the latest thing I learned, forget a low sodium diet.  I used to stay away from salt because I thought it was bad for you.  Not any more.  My doc encouraged me to consume salty foods.

I'm like a hybrid automobile.  My heart rate runs lower than avg, my body temp is avg at 97.6, not 98.6.  I figure I'm just really good at conserving energy!  

ps, and you get REAL GOOD at being able to NOT pass out or fall down when everything goes black, or white.


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## DeniseM (Nov 22, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> I know her age, but am not aware of the cutoff age for filing using her (non SS collecting) parent(s) for qualification. As geoand says, the reason for denial will be on the letter. I was only conjecturing. Henceforth I will keep my speculations to myself.  JR



In the other thread on this topic, someone stated that a dependent off-spring under the age of 25 could qualify under their parents eligibility.  I thought it was you, but I guess not (thus the question) - sorry! 

Thanks for helping PJ and I - please don't stop.


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

*TUG Loungers Rock!*



DeniseM said:


> In the other thread on this topic, someone stated that a dependent off-spring under the age of 25 could qualify under their parents eligibility.  I thought it was you, but I guess not (thus the question) - sorry!
> 
> Thanks for helping PJ and I - please don't stop.



Denise, I was just telling DH for the umpteenth time how amazing TUG is.  There is no way I could have found out everything I've learned so far without the amazing group that hangs out in the TUG Lounge. 

I think there have been three recent discussions on disability...this one, Denise's, and maybe on part of my "send prayers and incense and chocolate" thread.  I haven't found the "age 25" post yet though.  

And yes, keep the info coming here and via emails/PMs (I cleaned out some old PMs to make room). Our kiddos don't WANT to have disabilities, but they've got them, and in some cases the disabilities are permanent and not curable, treatable, or outgrow-able (is that a word?).


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## Pat H (Nov 22, 2011)

The parents do not have to be on SS for your daughter to qualify. Like I said previously, my nephew gets it. He is 19. I think he gets $500/mo. I don't believe that his parents' past, present or future income has any bearing on his amount.


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

presley said:


> PJRose, if you have some time later, can you please share with me anything medically you have learned?  I have a 20 year old daughter who blacks out frequently - only faints sometimes, but her blood pressure is always very low when she does.  She has seen several doctors who tell her that it isn't normal to be like that, but after they order labs, they tell her she is healthy.
> 
> She works and for the most part, can function.  Sometimes there is no warning, though.  Just wondering if you have figured out anything regarding your daughter.



Oy Vey, I feel for her.  Yes, I'll email or PM with LOTS of info once my fingers recuperate from all my typing tonight.  I'd start with a complete work-up with a cardiologist including echocardiogram, tilt-table test, stress test, EKG of course, and an event monitor such as a Holter Monitor that she wears for several weeks.  It is inconspicuous.  She wears EKG leads and carries a little box and special cell phone; it continually records EKG info, and if she is dizzy or faints she pushes a button and the info is sent to the monitoring company which immediately sends it on to the doctor.

Also I'd do the same with a neurologist - EEG and whatever other tests they can do, and if need be an ambulatory EEG unit (Not so inconspicuous - she'll have some leads glued to her head so will likely want to wear a hat.) It does the same thing - records what's going on neurologically, and if she has an episode while wearing it, it'll help with diagnoses.

DD takes two meds + salt tabs + drinks lots of fluids + avoids triggers.....but still it hasn't been enough.  I'll PM or email you later with more details.  

Keep track of every med, symptom, episode, etc....I have a computer file I've been keeping for four years now.


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

Pat H said:


> The parents do not have to be on SS for your daughter to qualify. Like I said previously, my nephew gets it. He is 19. I think he gets $500/mo. I don't believe that his parents' past, present or future income has any bearing on his amount.



Thank you!


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## pjrose (Nov 22, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I have the same "condition".  So does my mom, so did my grandma, and I am thinking, my daughter will too.  I've had all tests run as well, I am as fit as a fiddle.  I am borderline hypotensive, borderline hypoglycemic, borderline anemic, BUT, I am in the average on all these, I just hug the low end of each.  You don't skip meals when you can help it, get up slowly when you rise, especially in the morning, make sure you eat your protein, hydrate with fruit juice when you feel "light in your loafers", and the latest thing I learned, forget a low sodium diet.  I used to stay away from salt because I thought it was bad for you.  Not any more.  My doc encouraged me to consume salty foods.
> 
> I'm like a hybrid automobile.  My heart rate runs lower than avg, my body temp is avg at 97.6, not 98.6.  I figure I'm just really good at conserving energy!
> 
> ps, and you get REAL GOOD at being able to NOT pass out or fall down when everything goes black, or white.



Yup, all of this is familiar....with DD's assorted "hypos" lower than "borderline".  She was prescribed to take salt tablets - six x 500mg per day, I believe.  

Unfortunately your PS doesn't work for her - I think she's had warning once or maybe twice in four years .  With no warning, and with ALWAYS falling backwards, she's also had several concussions .


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## geoand (Nov 23, 2011)

pjrose said:


> I recall an earlier thread a few months ago - I am pretty sure Elaine and Denise were participants - that's the one that discussed something along the lines of applying before age 25 in order to qualify under the parents' SSI rather than the child's.....
> 
> We need to find out if DH and/or I need to actually need to have applied for our own SSI or be receiving it....



You are mixing apples and oranges.  You really meant SSA not SSI.  SSI is the federal welfare benefit.  Disabled children getting benefits on their parents' account is SSA benefit.


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## laurac260 (Nov 23, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Yup, all of this is familiar....with DD's assorted "hypos" lower than "borderline".  She was prescribed to take salt tablets - six x 500mg per day, I believe.
> 
> Unfortunately your PS doesn't work for her - I think she's had warning once or maybe twice in four years :-(.  With no warning, and with ALWAYS falling backwards, she's also had several concussions :-(.



PJ, my situation is no where near like your daughter's.  I was posting to a previous person who said their daughter blacks out, not passes out.  She may have meant passing out, not blacking out.  I really don't know. For someone who experiences this type of thing often enough, I can tell you there are MANY stages between being upright and being out cold.  Sometimes things just go blurry.  Sometimes things go black.  Sometimes things go white.  Sometimes you can still walk thru a room (especially if it is your house and you know the way), and just stick your hands out so you don't bump into anything.  You aren't going to go unconscious and you know it, so you just wait for your vision to clear.  

  Other times you find yourself just willing yourself to stay upright.  I can usually tell when this is coming because my head will start to tingle first, and/or my legs will turn to jelly.  Often you feel clammy.  If it gets really bad you just steady yourself, or sometimes, find the nearest place to sit or lay down.  That's typically caused by skipping meals, and can usually be immediately remedied by drinking fruit juice.  

And sometimes, rarely for me fortunately, you find yourself on the floor.  This typically only happens early morning or late at night, when rising too quickly from bed, or if I've skipped meals, or done any of the three and also am down with a cold or something.    I've only three times in my life done what I call "passed out", which was when I lost consciousness.  Once was when I was on a medication (quit that one immediately), once was a CO leak in our house as a child, and once was when I got up way too quickly to respond to our baby who was crying in an urgent fashion.  That day I learned what carpet tastes like.   All three times I could still hear, I just couldn't respond.  

Your daughter's case is a severe one.  I can still function and lead a normal life.


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## geoand (Nov 23, 2011)

*info from SSA.gov*

This url gives basic info about Disabled Adult Children.

http://ssa.gov/dibplan/dacpage.shtml

It begins with the following:

An adult disabled before age 22 may be eligible for child's benefits if a parent is deceased or starts receiving retirement or disability benefits. We consider this a "child's" benefit because it is paid on a parent's Social Security earnings record.

The following information came from:  http://ssa.gov/dibplan/dqualify2.htm

The number of work credits you need to qualify for disability benefits depends on your age when you become disabled. Generally, you need 40 credits, 20 of which were earned in the last 10 years ending with the year you become disabled. However, younger workers may qualify with fewer credits.

The above info refers to SSA benefits.

The following info about SSI benefits came from http://ssa.gov/ssi/:

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes):

	It is designed to help aged, blind, and disabled people, who have little or no income; and

	It provides cash to meet basic needs for food, clothing, and shelter.


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## pjrose (Nov 23, 2011)

geoand said:


> You are mixing apples and oranges.  You really meant SSA not SSI.  SSI is the federal welfare benefit.  Disabled children getting benefits on their parents' account is SSA benefit.



I'm definitely having trouble with the alphabet soup - thanks!




geoand said:


> This url gives basic info about Disabled Adult Children.
> 
> http://ssa.gov/dibplan/dacpage.shtml
> 
> . . . .



And thanks SO MUCH for the link and info!!


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## pjrose (Nov 23, 2011)

*She was offered a job!*

Well this is an interesting turn-around.  Today she got a call from a nearby grocery store offering her a part-time job.  :whoopie: She is going to take it of course - and take her meds and drink her fluids.  She'll need to find someone to drive her in exchange for gas money or make arrangements with a taxi company. Maybe there's someone looking over her shoulder or some Karma operating, that she got denied benefits one day and the job offer the next.  

The best thing would be if she can stay upright and KEEP the job  .  And if not, if she has a syncope, well then that'll add evidence to the disability issue  .  

And re Laura's discussion of variations on blacking out, losing consciousness, etc, DD goes from standing or walking or sitting to flat on the floor in an instant, almost always totally unconscious, generally for a few minutes but sometimes 10-12 minutes and a few times over 20 minutes.  The very few times she felt dizzy first she has sat down immediately - once in the middle of the lunch line in high school.  She'd try to lean against a wall and someone would call the school nurse who would put her in a wheelchair and have her  rest for awhile and drink some water.  She has sometimes been told after a syncope that her fingernails were blue and sometimes she remembers later that her vision was blurry for an instant.


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## laurac260 (Nov 23, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Well this is an interesting turn-around.  Today she got a call from a nearby grocery store offering her a part-time job.  :whoopie: She is going to take it of course - and take her meds and drink her fluids.  She'll need to find someone to drive her in exchange for gas money or make arrangements with a taxi company. Maybe there's someone looking over her shoulder or some Karma operating, that she got denied benefits one day and the job offer the next.
> 
> The best thing would be if she can stay upright and KEEP the job  .  And if not, if she has a syncope, well then that'll add evidence to the disability issue  .
> 
> And re Laura's discussion of variations on blacking out, losing consciousness, etc, DD goes from standing or walking or sitting to flat on the floor in an instant, almost always totally unconscious, generally for a few minutes but sometimes 10-12 minutes and a few times over 20 minutes.  The very few times she felt dizzy first she has sat down immediately - once in the middle of the lunch line in high school.  She'd try to lean against a wall and someone would call the school nurse who would put her in a wheelchair and have her  rest for awhile and drink some water.  She has sometimes been told after a syncope that her fingernails were blue and sometimes she remembers later that her vision was blurry for an instant.



If I were to rate your daughter's situation and my situation on a scale of 1 to 10, mine would be a 1, as in, merely an inconvenience.  Your daughter's would be atleast a 10.  That is scary.  I don't know how I would ever have been able to let her out of the house, though I know you don't have a choice.  My heart goes out to her, and you.


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## pjrose (Nov 23, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> If I were to rate your daughter's situation and my situation on a scale of 1 to 10, mine would be a 1, as in, merely an inconvenience.  Your daughter's would be atleast a 10.  That is scary. * I don't know how I would ever have been able to let her out of the house, though I know you don't have a choice.*  My heart goes out to her, and you.



Exactly - and that's why the issues we had this summer were so very much more scary than other teenage rebelliousness. 

And thanks - {{HUGS}}


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## presley (Nov 23, 2011)

I certainly hope she doesn't pass out on the job.  Other than that, I am very happy that she got one.  

In my daughter's case, the more active she is, the less likely she is to black out or pass out.  She fainted without notice while getting a haircut once.  It really scared everyone in the shop.  Her job is on her feet all day, and while she has had some light-headed moments, she has never passed out.  I hope that turns out to the be case for your girl.


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## pjrose (Nov 24, 2011)

presley said:


> I certainly hope she doesn't pass out on the job.  Other than that, I am very happy that she got one.
> 
> In my daughter's case, the more active she is, the less likely she is to black out or pass out.  She fainted without notice while getting a haircut once.  It really scared everyone in the shop.  Her job is on her feet all day, and while she has had some light-headed moments, she has never passed out.  I hope that turns out to the be case for your girl.



thanks.  She seems to be the opposite to your daughter.  

She had a cashier's job once, and passed out after maybe a month - the cardio wouldn't clear her to back for an all-standing job, and they didn't have anything else for 15 year-olds.  This new job is in the bakery, so presumably she'll be walking around - that will be good for her.  

She is ALSO going to see a new cardiologist Tuesday, who is experienced in some testing she hasn't had yet but that was recommended to me.  I'm cautiously optimistic.


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## pjrose (Nov 28, 2011)

*update on denial*

She saved (!) and showed me all the disability paperwork.  Her application was denied b/c she didn't have enough quarters, which we already knew b/c she had only held one job, as a cashier for a few months, and then she started having the syncopes.  Her cardio at the time would not approve her to go back for any job that required standing in one place.  

The denial said that since she didn't have the quarters to qualify, they did not consider the disability issue, but she can appeal. We hope she won't need to appeal, as the new job she's hoping to start soon is in a supermarket bakery, so she'll be moving around. We're keeping our fingers crossed that it'll work out.  She has an appt with the new cardio tomorrow and we're also optimistic about that.  We're hoping that he'll do some tests that weren't done by the previous one, and maybe figure out a way for her to better manage this condition  

If not and if she lands on the bakery floor a time or two, then I guess she'll need to appeal the disability denial.


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## Passepartout (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks for the update. We had felt this was the reason for the denial. We will continue to hold out hope for a medical resolution to her problem. That's far better than a life of (and on) disability.

Jim


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## geoand (Nov 29, 2011)

pjrose said:


> If not and if she lands on the bakery floor a time or two, then I guess she'll need to appeal the disability denial.



Based on what you said, she was denied because she didn't have enough quarters of coverage.  There was no determination made on her disability.

This denial was on the disability insurance claim.  She has not worked enough to qualify for the disability insurance.  Hopefully, I can explain this.  When a person files for retirement benefits, Social Security must make a determination on whether or not he has sufficient quarters of coverage to qualify.  If the determination is that he does have enough, then Social Security must make a determination on whether or not he is "retired."  If the determination is that he does not have enough quarters of coverage to qualify, no determination is made on the retirement issue.  The appeal would be consider only the quarters of coverage issue and not the retirement issue.

In your daughter's situation, the appeal is only on the quarters of coverage issue.  In these situations, generally, a claim for Supplemental Security income is taken.  The issues on this type of claim are income, resources, and disability.  Social Security will first determine eligibility based on income and resources.  If income or resources are too high, then this claim is also denied but not based on the disability issue.


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## puppymommo (Nov 29, 2011)

geoand said:


> Based on what you said, she was denied because she didn't have enough quarters of coverage.  There was no determination made on her disability.
> 
> In your daughter's situation, the appeal is only on the quarters of coverage issue.  In these situations, generally, a claim for Supplemental Security income is taken.  The issues on this type of claim are income, resources, and disability.  Social Security will first determine eligibility based on income and resources.  If income or resources are too high, then this claim is also denied but not based on the disability issue.



I agree withh Geoand here.  There is no grounds for appeal because she hasn't worked enough quarters to qualify for SSDI. What she may qualify for is SSI which has no work requirement and is solely based on disability, recognizing that people with severe disabilities may not be able to work. If I remember correctly, persons on SSI can earn a limited amount of money before it is taken out of their SSI benefit.


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## pjrose (Nov 29, 2011)

Geo and Puppymommo - Right BUT she could also potentially be covered under OUR Social Security - that's what I'm not completely clear on, but it was discussed in earlier posts/threads about filing before or after she's age 25 - if before she might be covered under ours, if after 25, then she loses that possibility.

Or something like that.  I'm still fuzzy here.  I know people have tried to explain this one to me, so I'll go back up and read the posts, PMs, etc when I'm not so tired :zzz:

So tomorrow is her first day at the bakery job 1+ mile from her house.  Hoped-for rides fell through, so she's planning to get there and back with her bicycle.  She's already had 1-2 syncopes while riding it, so I'm a nervous wreck.


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## geoand (Nov 30, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Geo and Puppymommo - Right BUT she could also potentially be covered under OUR Social Security - that's what I'm not completely clear on, but it was discussed in earlier posts/threads about filing before or after she's age 25 - if before she might be covered under ours, if after 25, then she loses that possibility.
> 
> Or something like that.  I'm still fuzzy here.  I know people have tried to explain this one to me, so I'll go back up and read the posts, PMs, etc when I'm not so tired :zzz:
> 
> So tomorrow is her first day at the bakery job 1+ mile from her house.  Hoped-for rides fell through, so she's planning to get there and back with her bicycle.  She's already had 1-2 syncopes while riding it, so I'm a nervous wreck.



This url will clear some things up for you.

http://ssa.gov/dibplan/dacpage.shtml

The age 25 business you mention does not exist.  Look at this url

http://ssa.gov/dibplan/dqualify10.htm

The following comes from the page just mentioned:

Note: An adult may become eligible for a disabled child's benefit from Social Security later in life.

"For example, a worker starts collecting Social Security retirement benefits at age 62. He has a 38-year old son who has had cerebral palsy since birth. The son will start collecting a disabled "child's" benefit on his father's Social Security record."

In other words, the child will not be eligible for benefits on parents' account unless the parent is receiving benefits or is deceased.

Basically, the child must be disabled prior to age 22 to meet one of the qualifying elements for benefits on a parent account.  The other critical element is that the parent must be receiving benefits or be deceased and had sufficient quarters of coverage to qualify for benefits at the time of death.

Please feel free to pm me or email me if you so desire.

I would suggest going to SSA.gov and reading thru that section rather than going thru the posts on this thread.
You will find it very well organized, with hot links, and all the public info pamphlets available to you online.


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## geoand (Nov 30, 2011)

*sorry about so much typing*

This url should clear up the issues about disabled adult child.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/156

from the url:

Do disabled children qualify for benefits?
There are two Social Security disability programs children can qualify for:

1.  The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program

This program provides monthly payments to children from birth to age 18 based on disability or blindness if the child's:

a.  Impairment or combination of impairments meet the definition of disability for children; and

b.  Income and resources  of the parents and the child are within the allowed limits.

2. The Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) program.

This program provides monthly benefits to an adult child (a person age 18 or older) based on disability or blindness if the adult child's:

a.  Impairment or combination of impairments meet the definition of disability for adults;

b.  Disability began before age 22; and

c.  Parent(s) worked long enough to be insured under Social Security and is receiving retirement or disability benefits or is deceased.

Under both programs, the child must not be doing any substantial work and must have a medical condition that has lasted or is expected to last for at least 12 months or to result in death.


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## DeniseM09 (Nov 30, 2011)

[It appears that you sell disability insurance - posting a link to your company is not permitted here. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## pjrose (Nov 30, 2011)

Geo - Thanks!  You have cleared up the 25 (actually 22) year old bit.  

So IF she keeps passing out so she can't work, and IF the Drs can't get the disability under control, and IF her dad or I are receiving benefits and IF she meets the age/time/disability issues and so forth in your last two posts, then she might be able to receive benefits. 

thank you!


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## pjrose (Dec 3, 2011)

*Syncope 3rd day at new job*

She passed out on her third half-day at the new job, in ER now.

I was hoping this job would work out b/c she'd be moving around and not standing still, but I guess not.  I don't know if they'll let her come back to the job again, but if it happens 2x that's probably it.  

Time to pursue disability again, and the info above will help.


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## funtime (Dec 3, 2011)

Congratulations on the job.  As an employee of a large supermarket she will be covered by the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) as an employer needs 15 or 20 employees (depending upon the state.)  Her employer is required to work with her in "the interactive process" if she needs to modify the job somewhat - she does have to institute the request.  I am not suggesting a full bore realignment of her job, just the fact that if it gets too hard, and small changes can be made - e.g. sitting down in the back and frosting cakes for an hour or two etc. -  she should not just up and quit but use the ADA to help save her position.  Disability employment attorney referrals can be found  on : www.NELA.org.  Also, she should look to see if the city provides handicap buses or paratransit buses that take people around.  Even once a day helps. I agree that it is hard for handicap folks to find a job and I would like to see them fight for it once they get it.  Good luck.  Funtime


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## pjrose (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks, funtime, this is very useful.

Just the other day DD and I went through a Target checkout line handled by a disabled employee with something that appeared like Cerebral Palsy - he was sitting and a bit uncoordinated and a bit hard to understand, but he was working and doing just fine in our opinions.  


To qualify under ADA does she have to be receiving Disability (SSI/SSDI) or have some other kind of certification or paperwork?

Not sure what you mean by "needs 15 or 20 employees" - do you mean that's the minimum size of the workforce of businesses that must comply with the act, or that they need to have/accommodate/make room for  that many disabled employees?


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## Barbeque (Dec 4, 2011)

PJ  
sorry to read about your daughters condition  
IF the current physicians cannot pinpoint the cause perhaps an alternative medical solution may help her   (But the insurance companies may not cover)
I honestly believe that many of our current medical problems are related to chemicals in our environment, food, Cosmetics, Electrical (WI FI  Cell phones)  etc.  Or sensitivties to foods that are harmful to some that are perfect nutrition for others.  I have found I am highly sensitive to many and have learned to live better.   WE  have a friend whos daughter when she was little had a siezure after smelling a dryer sheet.  
15 years ago my life changed for the better after reading "An Alternative Approach to Allergies"  By Dr. Theron Randolph
"Is this Your Child " by Dr. Doris Rapp may also help.  

*The developer of the Royal Resorts has put a lot of faith and promotion back in forth with  the Life Extension Foundation    www.lef.org *They have a lot of medical research on their website and they have boards that some very well known phsycians that take alternative views.  I believe this is where medicine is really headed in the future.  They do a lot of researcch and report on it.  
Dr Russel Blaylock and Dr. Eric Braverman are among some on this advisory and Scientific  boards of Life Extension and I really think they get it.   I have read some of what they have written.

Here is an article that talks about some of the chemicals in fast food.
http://www.naturalnews.com/034314_fast_food_nutrition_facts_ingredients.html

Another very useful website is mercola.com


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## pjrose (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks, Barbeque, I will look into these as well.  

An acquaintance whose daughter has more of a problem with this than our daughter went to some well-known specialists out of state etc etc, and ended up with acupuncture.  

And as to the chemicals and cell phones etc, I couldn't agree with you more (while I sit here staring at my computer on my wireless network).

PJ


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## funtime (Dec 10, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Thanks, funtime, this is very useful.
> 
> Just the other day DD and I went through a Target checkout line handled by a disabled employee with something that appeared like Cerebral Palsy - he was sitting and a bit uncoordinated and a bit hard to understand, but he was working and doing just fine in our opinions.
> 
> ...



Sorry I have been off site for a few days.  Although I am a lawyer, please note I am just giving general public information rather than legal advice to your daughter.  To answer your questions, the reason this area of the law is complicated is that employees with disabilities live under  wholly different law and rules than those that are not employed and are reciveing SSI or SSDI.

Under the ADA or state law the employer usually needs to have 15 or 20 employees - all total -to be a covered employer, although the number of employees varies in certain states and may be as small as threr or four in some states - hence the need to check.  The theory is that as a matter of policy a little three person hot dog stand is not required to follow all ADA workforce requirements that a 500 plus employer is required to follow.  

And, the employed person of a covered employer cannot be totally disabled - they have to be able to work  either with or without accommodations.  In other words they have to be a viable workforce candidate.   You can google www.EEOC.gov and then search for general information re the ADA.  However, if a serious issue arises, protection of her job is important which is why I gave the other sources and referrals to check.  Best to you and your daughter.  Funtime


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## pjrose (Dec 12, 2011)

funtime said:


> Sorry I have been off site for a few days.  Although I am a lawyer, please note I am just giving general public information rather than legal advice to your daughter.  To answer your questions, the reason this area of the law is complicated is that *employees with disabilities live under  wholly different law and rules than those that are not employed and are reciveing SSI or SSDI.*
> 
> Under the ADA or state law the employer usually needs to have 15 or 20 employees - all total -to be a covered employer, although the number of employees varies in certain states and may be as small as threr or four in some states - hence the need to check.  The theory is that as a matter of policy a little three person hot dog stand is not required to follow all ADA workforce requirements that a 500 plus employer is required to follow.
> 
> And, the employed person of a covered employer cannot be totally disabled - they have to be able to work  either with or without accommodations.  In other words they have to be a viable workforce candidate.   You can google www.EEOC.gov and then search for general information re the ADA.  However, if a serious issue arises, protection of her job is important which is why I gave the other sources and referrals to check.  Best to you and your daughter.  Funtime



The above in *bold* looks like the general info I was wondering about - so she does not have to be approved for or receive SSI/SSDI to be considered disabled under ADA.  The rest of the info is a great help too!  Her employer (for three days before she fainted) has hundreds of employees so would fall under ADA.  

In the best case the doctors will fix the problem - we're headed for more tests in a few days and TUGgers have given me LOTS of ideas.  Second best, her employer (or another) will make reasonable accommodations, which in her case would include letting her have a water bottle handy and letting her sit down for ~1/4-1/3 of the time - seems pretty "reasonable" to me for a cashier-type job and many others.  She also can't do anything too strenuous, but she wouldn't apply for that kind of job anyway.

As always, I remain optimistic


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