# Diamond Resorts/Villas de Santa Fe Maintenance Fee Increases



## thomas660 (Aug 16, 2008)

I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association.  Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009.  The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services.  In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners."  Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts?  Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners?  The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009).  I think that is more like 33%.


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## riverdees05 (Aug 16, 2008)

WOW, wonder what will happen at Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, own two 2 bedroom float units.


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## bccash63 (Aug 16, 2008)

I've been watching an ebay auction for this resort--so far its going very cheap--maybe someone had a heads up Dawn


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2008)

twilson906 said:


> I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association.  Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009.  The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services.  In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners."  Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts?  Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners?  The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009).  I think that is more like 33%.



Yes, those fees are charged and should have been paid. Who was doing the work for free? What are they doing with reserves? This sounds like a clear problem brewing.  Who manages the resort?


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## thomas660 (Aug 18, 2008)

John,

Your first question was my first question.  The budget shows administrative support services and management fees going from about $374,000 (2008) to $909,000 (2009).  If the owners weren't paying for these services in previous years, I assumed that they were paid out of another budget from other revenues.  If so, why are they suddenly the responsibility of the owners?

The memo attached to the budget says that the reserves are being used only for capital projects.  

The management of the resort is done by Diamond Resorts.  Beyond that I don't know anyting about management. 

The whole thing doesn't look right to me.

Tom Wilson


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## Cathyb (Aug 18, 2008)

A few yrs ago we exchanged there; our air conditioner had only one speed working and our freezer was having trouble.  The Front Office shrugged when we reported these and said budget was low and those types of major repairs had to wait.


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## Tia (Aug 18, 2008)

Diamond Resorts is a new name to me, but the story is the same as one of ours. Up up up go the fees went with lots of talk but no action. Seems to be a popular business  taking over a ts resort(s) and mail out large bills.


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## jbercu (Aug 20, 2008)

*Villas de Santa Fe, Diamond vs. VI Club*



twilson906 said:


> Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners?  The one bedroom deluxe annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009).  I think that is more like 33%.



I own VI club points which owns a bunch of one bedroom deluxe and two 2 bedroom units.
The 2009 annual dues for 105 points which is equivalent to 7 nights one bedroom deluxe is $731.85.  The 2 bedroom is $902.62.
The low season requires 77 points for one bedroom deluxe or $536.69 and $658.66 for the two bedrooms.  The other seasons are in between the costs.
The increase from 2008 to 2009 is 5.75%.
Have we been getting a bad deal all these years?
The idea of owning in a club is that large fluctuations are absorbed across resorts and members.  You may not be getting this benefit at Diamond.


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## borntotravel (Aug 21, 2008)

Diamond as the Club "points" members as well as people (like this posts originator) who own a certain week at a certain resort.  Points members are charged maintenance fees based on the number of points you have.  You don't have a deeded week and don't own any actual property, just the benefit to use any of the club's resorts.  

If you own a certain week at a certain resort, those owners should be responsible for paying for upkeep, maintenance, and operating expenses of that resort - NOT THE ENTIRE CLUB.  Otherwise, what is the point of actually owning at one resort?  It would be like owning a week at one Sheraton in Myrtle Beach and someone else owning at Sheraton in Florida.  The Myrtle Beach owners should not be responsible for paying for the Florida resort and vice versa.

I know that when Diamond took over Sunterra, they wanted to bring their resorts up to par, which costs money if they have been neglected. It sounds like this resort needs it.


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## CharlesS (Aug 27, 2008)

borntotravel said:


> If you own a certain week at a certain resort, those owners should be responsible for paying for upkeep, maintenance, and operating expenses of that resort - NOT THE ENTIRE CLUB.  Otherwise, what is the point of actually owning at one resort?  It would be like owning a week at one Sheraton in Myrtle Beach and someone else owning at Sheraton in Florida.  The Myrtle Beach owners should not be responsible for paying for the Florida resort and vice versa.


I agree, providing the Myrtle Beach owner can only reserve at Myrtle Beach.  If the Myrtle Beach owner can also reserve in Florida, then both the Myrtle Beach owner and the Florida owner should share costs.

Charles


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 27, 2008)

There is a difference between Club members and trust members. Members who own points in the trust do not own any specific property.  The maintenance fees for all trust properties are split between all the points owners.

On the other hand, Club members own deeded weeks for which they get a certain number of points.  Club members pay the maintenance fees for the resorts that they own deeded weeks.


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 7, 2008)

Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe. 
I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:

1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control. 

2. When we signed that contract, we basically signed a blank check to Sunterra Corporation (Now Diamond Resorts). We are at their mercy as to how much we have to pay them every year in maintenance fees. They can raise our maintenance fee's to $3000 a year, and we are under legal obligation to pay them. The contract is legally binding and airtight. It will be upheld in just about every court of law. 

If only the owners of timeshares could get together and figure out a way to void these contracts either by finding some legal loophole or getting some law passed through congress that will void these contracts. They can be voided on the grounds of some sort of a fairness clause in the law, or citing some form of conflict of interest in the management of timeshare properties, or gross misrepresentation. Nothing is impossible, but it definitely won't be easy.


Probably the easiest thing for us owners to do is to sell our timeshares even at a loss, just to keep ourselves from paying exuberant maintenance fees for the rest of our lives. We made a big mistake, now we have to just deal with it.


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## timeos2 (Sep 8, 2008)

*Well run resorts have owners in charge not developers*



Engineeringdude said:


> Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe.
> I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:
> 
> 1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control.
> ...



Most states require a turnover to owner control after so many years or at XX% completion of the project. Once that occurs a well run BOD will do a search / request for management fees to make sure the cost is reasonable. Plus they will set a fair fee structure - including adequate reserves, often shortchanged by developers to hold fees down and help sales.  If that hasn't happened at a resort then big problems could be looming (as in uncontrolled fee increases and/or outrageous management fees of 20% or more!)

Selling really is the only answer if  the developer hangs in and the owners can't get control over their own resort. Happens far too often even in places that have laws against it (Wastegate in FL has thumbed their noses at mere laws / timeshare regs with, so far, no one willing to stand up to them).


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 8, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe.
> I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:
> 
> 1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control.
> ...



Don't panic.  Enjoy your timeshare!  It is extremely unlikely that fees will be raised exhorbitantly.


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## Sunterra (Sep 8, 2008)

jbercu said:


> I own VI club points which owns a bunch of one bedroom deluxe and two 2 bedroom units.
> The 2009 annual dues for 105 points which is equivalent to 7 nights one bedroom deluxe is $731.85.  The 2 bedroom is $902.62.
> The low season requires 77 points for one bedroom deluxe or $536.69 and $658.66 for the two bedrooms.  The other seasons are in between the costs.
> The increase from 2008 to 2009 is 5.75%.
> ...


VI has traditionally been quite expensive in the way of MFs.  A bunch equals 10-1BRs and 2-2BRs which is quite a small part of the total VI inventory that you are being averaged over.  Expect to see these increases reflected in your next annual fee, VI pays MF to DRI for these 12 units.


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## teepee2000 (Sep 9, 2008)

thomas660 said:


> I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association.  Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009.  The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services.  In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners."  Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts?  Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners?  The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009).  I think that is more like 33%.



Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again .  Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets. 
If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD  , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.













4


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 10, 2008)

teepee2000 said:


> Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again .  Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets.
> If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD  , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.
> 
> 
> ...




I am a very happy and satisfied Diamond owner.  There is nothing in the press or otherwise to say they are in financial ruins.  You are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is.  I would recommend Diamond Club membership.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 10, 2008)

teepee2000 said:


> Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again .  Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets.
> If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD  , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.
> 
> 
> ...




You are confusing DRI with the old Sunterra. Diamond purchased Sunterra and then took it private. DRI is not a publicly traded company. They are presently looking at expanding by purchasing Bluegreen resorts. 

Sunterra has set MF's at their resorts far to low to maintain them. DRI has been increasing MF's but, they have also been making necessary repairs and needed upgrades to the old Sunterra resorts to keep them competitive with the rest of the indurstry. Unfortunately many of the old Sunterra owners had grown happy with low MF's and questionable quality resorts. Many were more than happy to use these for exchange into better maintained resorts. The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. I know of no timeshare management company that would obsorb the cost of maintenance and repairs out of their pocket. It's up to the owners to pay MF's that reflect the necessary maintenance of their resorts and pay the bills. Management simply runs the resort and collects those fee's from owners. 

I'm not sure where you think your getting your information from about DRI's financial position but it's pure speculation and wishfull thinking. Nothing could be further from the truth at this point in time. Sunterra did a very poor job of managing it's properties. That's why they wound up being bought out by DRI.


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## jbercu (Sep 10, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. QUOTE]
> 
> This string started with "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services. In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners."
> 
> The original owners that own a specific week and/or a specific unit cannot use the extensive system that DRI has for scheduling check-in/check-out any day depending on points used.  Cleaning costs and wear and tear costs are much higher when the units are not booked one week at a time.  However, DRI is asking all the owners to share in the costs.  It is more like the fox got into the hen house rather than The chickens have come home to roost.


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 10, 2008)

*Whats wrong with low maintenance fees?*



dougp26364 said:


> You are confusing DRI with the old Sunterra. Diamond purchased Sunterra and then took it private. DRI is not a publicly traded company. They are presently looking at expanding by purchasing Bluegreen resorts.
> 
> Sunterra has set MF's at their resorts far to low to maintain them. DRI has been increasing MF's but, they have also been making necessary repairs and needed upgrades to the old Sunterra resorts to keep them competitive with the rest of the indurstry. Unfortunately many of the old Sunterra owners had grown happy with low MF's and questionable quality resorts. Many were more than happy to use these for exchange into better maintained resorts. The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. I know of no timeshare management company that would obsorb the cost of maintenance and repairs out of their pocket. It's up to the owners to pay MF's that reflect the necessary maintenance of their resorts and pay the bills. Management simply runs the resort and collects those fee's from owners.
> 
> I'm not sure where you think your getting your information from about DRI's financial position but it's pure speculation and wishfull thinking. Nothing could be further from the truth at this point in time. Sunterra did a very poor job of managing it's properties. That's why they wound up being bought out by DRI.



Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash.


When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week,  or  a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
It becomes rent!  Why should we pay rent for something we already own!

Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.

If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
1. The property is either being mismanaged.
2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.

I do not believe "MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts " We as owners are being made to pay for a lot of things we should not be paying.
The numbers just don't add up!


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## dougp26364 (Sep 11, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
> without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash.



Not at all resorts, and not all the time. I will agree that there are resorts where you can easily rent for the same amount or less than the maintenance fee's for those resorts and you can get in just about anytime. Shoulder season is especially easy but high season for high demand resorts isn't that easy. True you can find some resorts but not all resort are available. 




> When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week,  or  a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
> It becomes rent!  Why should we pay rent for something we already own!


Do you continue to maintain your house? I know that I this year I've paid to have my house repainted, purchased new computers and upgraded my network, had our hot tub removed vs fixing it and conintuing to pay to heat it. Let's not forget I keep paying for trash removal, utilities and cable. There's also the fee's to maintain my yard. I had to buy a new lawn mower this year and, if I don't mow my lawn myself I have to pay someone to do it. I'm also setting money aside to replace my roof, privacy fence and I need to put some money into landscaping. the area where the hot tub was will have the deck expanded to cover that area. 

Gee, and I OWN this house. Yes, even when you own something you MUST maintain it and that costs M.O.N.E.Y. Why should I continue to have to put money into something I own? Because it won't maintain itself. You have the same issue with timeshare plus you have to pay employee's to run it. If you have a problem with how much it's costing to run your timeshare then take an active role in the HOA/BOD proceedings. 



> Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
> self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.



DRI is a management company paid to manage your timeshare. If you dont' like them, then work with the HOA/BOD of your timeshare to have them removed. DRI works for the owners and can be fired by the owners if enough owners agree with you. 

As far as renting, all I can tell you is that at the resorts I own that IS self supporting. There is a column in my MF accounting statement that reflects rental income and reduces the yearly cost of my MF's for those resorts. 



> If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
> 1. The property is either being mismanaged.
> 2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.
> 
> ...



Each resort I own at sends me an accounting of where the money is going and how it's being spent. I've owned with DRI for 10 years. While I'm not always happy with them, it has never appeared to me that DRI has pocketed any money. 

What specifically are you refering to when you say your being made to pay for a lot of things you shouldn't be paying for? Bedding? Repairs? Employee's paychecks? Utilities? Insurance? pool maintenance? Exactly what is it that you find objectionable?


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 12, 2008)

*Reply to dougp26364's Reply, my response's in bold*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineeringdude  
Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash. 

dougp26364:
Not at all resorts, and not all the time. I will agree that there are resorts where you can easily rent for the same amount or less than the maintenance fee's for those resorts and you can get in just about anytime. Shoulder season is especially easy but high season for high demand resorts isn't that easy. True you can find some resorts but not all resort are available. 
*
Gee, Did I say that "all resorts are available all the time"? Let me check................No, I did not!!!!*



Quote:
When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week, or a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
It becomes rent! Why should we pay rent for something we already own!  

dougp26364:
Do you continue to maintain your house? I know that I this year I've paid to have my house repainted, purchased new computers and upgraded my network, had our hot tub removed vs fixing it and conintuing to pay to heat it. Let's not forget I keep paying for trash removal, utilities and cable. There's also the fee's to maintain my yard. I had to buy a new lawn mower this year and, if I don't mow my lawn myself I have to pay someone to do it. I'm also setting money aside to replace my roof, privacy fence and I need to put some money into landscaping. the area where the hot tub was will have the deck expanded to cover that area. 

Gee, and I OWN this house. Yes, even when you own something you MUST maintain it and that costs M.O.N.E.Y. Why should I continue to have to put money into something I own? Because it won't maintain itself. You have the same issue with timeshare plus you have to pay employee's to run it. If you have a problem with how much it's costing to run your timeshare then take an active role in the HOA/BOD proceedings. 

*One can spend lots of money maintaining and renovating a house, specially if you buy a "fixer-upper" and decide to make it your pet project. But in this case, its a very poor analogy to use to make your point. Owing a coop is a better comparison. You purchase a 1 bedroom apartment, but the building and property is owned collectively and pay an association fee once a month to pay for the cost of maintaning the grounds, cutting the grass, pruining the flowers, clean the pool etc.

Let's see $685.14 /week X51 Weeks = each 1 bedroom unit yields $34,942.14 in maintenance fees annually. Divide by 12 that and that comes up to $2911.85/a mouth to maintain a 1 bedroom apartment. Sure timeshares offer services and benefits that you won't find in neither renting an apartment or owning a 1 bedroom coop. But no number of amenities makes it worth that much!
Maintenance fee's at all the co-ops that I know about don't come anywhere near $2911.85 a month. *
Quote:
Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.  

dougp26364:
DRI is a management company paid to manage your timeshare. If you dont' like them, then work with the HOA/BOD of your timeshare to have them removed. DRI works for the owners and can be fired by the owners if enough owners agree with you. 

As far as renting, all I can tell you is that at the resorts I own that IS self supporting. There is a column in my MF accounting statement that reflects rental income and reduces the yearly cost of my MF's for those resorts. 

*What good will that do if DRI owns controlling interests in the HOA/BOD. *

Quote:
If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
1. The property is either being mismanaged.
2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.

I do not believe "MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts " We as owners are being made to pay for a lot of things we should not be paying.
The numbers just don't add up!  

dougp26364:
Each resort I own at sends me an accounting of where the money is going and how it's being spent. I've owned with DRI for 10 years. While I'm not always happy with them, it has never appeared to me that DRI has pocketed any money. 

What specifically are you refering to when you say your being made to pay for a lot of things you shouldn't be paying for? Bedding? Repairs? Employee's paychecks? Utilities? Insurance? pool maintenance? Exactly what is it that you find objectionable?

*I can rent a fully furnished 1 bedroom apartment in the LA area, with a pool, weight room, sauna, hottub, clubhouse, and pay a little extra to have housekeeping come by 3 times a day. total cost : $1668 /mo
not exactly apples to apples, but the point I am making here is that we as owners can pay less in maintenance fees and still not worry about the property falling apart. Apartments complexes and hotels do it all the time.*


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## winger (Sep 13, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> *...
> 
> I can rent a fully furnished 1 bedroom apartment in the LA area, with a pool, weight room, sauna, hottub, clubhouse, and pay a little extra to have housekeeping come by 3 times a day. total cost : $1668 /mo
> not exactly apples to apples, but the point I am making here is that we as owners can pay less in maintenance fees and still not worry about the property falling apart. Apartments complexes and hotels do it all the time.*


*
too late to do the math, so I assume your $2900 is accurate for a TS's MF/month.

So the difference in your LA apartment is $2900-$1700(round up) = $1200/mo.

To see if the difference is justified, I would ask we consider what IS the difference between your hotel and say my Polo Towers (PT).

PT is located smack on the Las Vegas Strip on a prime location - this makes the property pretty valuable, this cost should be reflected somehow in the MF.

Housekeeping is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

Engineering is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

All utilities are paid for at PT.  What is this worth?

Is there any other things we can consider when comparing cost to run PT vs your LA apartment?*


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## thomas660 (Sep 13, 2008)

It seems I started quite a discussion.  Good!  With all of the different opinions and points being offered, we seem to be getting closer to the question.  

What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount?  

It might be interesting to note that the proposed budget that caused me to ask the original question indicated an increase in Administrative and Support Services and Management Fees from $373,948 to $909,262 in one year.  Accounting for almost all on the increase in the total budget. It seems that the resulting increase in MFs will mainly go directly to DRI.

Also, I emailed the president of the board of directors and he responded that he was the only property owner on the BOD and was against the proposed increases.  He doubted, however, that he would be able to influence the decision of the BOD because DRI appointed all of the other members.


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 13, 2008)

winger said:


> too late to do the math, so I assume your $2900 is accurate for a TS's MF/month.
> 
> So the difference in your LA apartment is $2900-$1700(round up) = $1200/mo.
> 
> ...



Santa Fe is a very touristic town that appeals alot to the artisan community.  During the winter it is a very popular for skiing. Its pretty expensive to live there but still not as expensive as LA. 
The Last Vegas Strip on the other hand is prime real estate. Everything on the Las Vegas strip is expensive. You go outside the strip and you can live in Las Vegas for half of what it costs to live in LA. But if you want to have the party right at your doorstep, it will cost you. But I'm sure staying at the Polo Towers must me nice. 

I befriended a lady who works at a housekeeper. She told me that she gets paid $3.00 per room per day. She works freelance, and she told me it is alot better than being employed by the hotel which pays her only $7/hour and overworks her. Hospitality workers are heavily exploited, it is not something that looks like will be changing anytime soon. Its not a cost savings that hotels traditionally pass down to their customers. 

Engineering is different, most buildings to not have a engineer on premise, it's just not cost effective. A property management company would either contract out the services, or have a few in-house engineers responsible for multiple locations. It breaks the cost down tremendously. I know this because I am an engineer. 

My apartment has a maintenance person that lives on premise and is on call 24/7 he does everything from making minor repairs, to cleaning spills, some landscaping. If something major goes wrong, then he calls the experts. My apartment complex is owned by a big corporation that owns many rental properties in Southern California. Its stock is doing well, so I know they are making a profit.

All utilities are paid by my apartment except electric. I run an AC about half the time, I pay about $50/month during the summer, $25/ month during the winter.

As far as property taxes go, counties have different methods they incorporate for of tax assesment on property values. I know that the State of Nevada gets a tremendous amount of revenues from gambling, so the state is seldom strapped for cash. This usually means that counties are less pressured to increase property taxes, sales taxes, etc. on its residents. Oh, I just remembered! Las Vegas has a high hotel tax! I am not sure how much it is or if it is in any way incorporated into the timeshare maintenance fees.


I hope I answered all of your questions. Feel free to ask again if I did not.
I am still researching this more. I may just have to write a letter to my HOA and see if I can get a detailed breakdown of my resorts maintenance costs. You may ask the same of your resort. 

Till later,
Eddie
aka "Engineeringdude"


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 13, 2008)

*Its time for action*



thomas660 said:


> It seems I started quite a discussion.  Good!  With all of the different opinions and points being offered, we seem to be getting closer to the question.
> 
> What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount?
> 
> ...



Hey Thomas,
I'm glad you got the ball rolling what you are saying makes sense, the MF fees were going somewhere other than "maintenance." I am considering contacting the HOA and requesting a detailed breakdown or copy of the accounting books. I don't know if they will give it to me, they might charge me for the copy costs-(that's OK). I will still ask. I have a friend who is an accountant who can look it over. If there are any irregularities and descrepencies, she will find them. 

Thomas perhaps you an I can get together along with a few other owners of Villas de Santa Fe and maybe meet with a lawyer and see if we may have a legal recourse to challenge DRI. Having all but 1 owner appointed on the HOA/BOD by DRI is a conflict of interest. We need more representation. 

Eddie 
a.k.a. "Engineeringdude"


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 13, 2008)

*What is a reasonable amount?*



thomas660 said:


> It seems I started quite a discussion.  Good!  With all of the different opinions and points being offered, we seem to be getting closer to the question.
> 
> What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount?
> 
> ...



Sorry I did not answer your question earlier.
*What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount? *

MF should pay the costs of maintaining the property. Any operational costs to rent, reserve, and provide services to outsiders renting the property for cash should be paid for by rental fees collected.


I don't know exactly what a reasonable amount would be for MFs.
The management found ways to cut costs and save on maintenance just to turn around and reward themselves with a $535,000/yr. increase. 
before this happened, I was under the impression that costs should be going down a bit this year.
So I would say about $500 for a 1-bedroom month sounds fair. But I could not give an accurate assessment until I know what the "true costs" are.

Eddie
aka "Engineeringdude"


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## dougp26364 (Sep 13, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> Sorry I did not answer your question earlier.
> *What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount? *
> 
> MF should pay the costs of maintaining the property. Any operational costs to rent, reserve, and provide services to outsiders renting the property for cash should be paid for by rental fees collected.
> ...




And if you take the time to look at your accounting statements sent generally with your MF's fill, you'll see that's how it's done. My last MF bill was $20/less due to rental income. 

I own 7 timeshares. MF's vary from $250 for a 1 bedroom resort with literally NO amenities (no upkeep on pools, lounges, hot tubs, club house et....) to $1,300 for a 3 bedroom in Florida (huge taxes and insurance fee's, 5 pools, 5 hot tubs, owners lounge, reception area, gas bar-b-que grilling area, pizza hut express, convenience store, tiki bar et....)

Sunterra failed partly because MF's did NOT cover expenses. Upkeep on some of the Sunterra resorts was minimal at best and items were not replaced when they should have been. When they were replaced, it was bottom line quality rather then something good. Sunterra used cheap blinds, standard hard matresses and had bath towels that wouldn't wrap around the average persons waste. There was a pool at one of the Sedona resorts that was put in so poorly that DRI had to completely rip it out and start over (it wasn't fixable). Greensprings Plantation had issues with one of it's pools that wasn't being taken care of and Powhattan was in a general state of necessary renovation that wasn't getting done. 

I suppose if you want a resort that is not maintained then it's time to sell off DRI and move to some other system. Might I suggest Spinnaker as they seem more interested in sales than maintaining what they have. 

As for me I'm happy so long as the resorts are maintained and the MF's do not get out of line with other high quality resorts I own. Sunterra did a marvelous job of managing their resorts literally into the ground. I suppose you're expecting DRI to take the same unsuccesful path. If you are, I hate to tell you this but it ain't going to happen. 

When DRI purchased Sutnerra one of the first warnings I posted was that MF's were going to jump. Stephen Cloobeck isn't going to accept second tier resorts and I realized that Sunterra had a lot of second tier quality in their units. DRI isn't going to upgrade quality out of their pockets, they'll do it out of the owners pockets. What I've seen so far is money being plowed back into the resorts bringing their standards up to those of higher quality resorts in timeshareing. New bedding, linens and soft goods throughout the system are either in place or on their way. Needed maintenance issues that weren't getting handled by Sunterra have been handled. Maintenance fee's have risen to provide the funds to take care of these improvements. If you don't want quality, then it's time to move on, find something cheap and attempt to exchange into higher quality resorts.

Remember, Sunterra went bankrupt once and finally failed completely. If that's the quality of resort management you want then you're with the wrong group.


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## csalter2 (Sep 13, 2008)

*I hope you're right*

Hi Doug P,

I made a thread earlier today on the DRI forum and on TUG today to find out if there are any happy owners.  

I hope you are right? I am banking on it. I see they are trying. I hope they don't let us down. If they purchase Bluegreen and Raintree as is being discussed on StreetTalk, we will have a lot more options and not have to pay any exchange fees to those places. If they improve the quality of all of the properties, I will be happy as a Gold Elite member and I will use my points to stay at those properties


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## winger (Sep 13, 2008)

i am another happy dri member.


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## ladycody (Sep 14, 2008)

When factoring in costs, there are some extras that need to be factored in for timeshares...as someone else mentioned.  Phone lines, internet, cable, heat, electricity, housekeeping, refurbishment allocation, trash/water/sewer, reservations and front desk staff (and even owners use these...they're not just for rentals), concierge....


My only point is that costs associated with timeshare can easily be expected to be double that of a condo owner who takes care of him/herself and doesnt need to be supplied with all of the extras....there's alot more involved than most people consider.  JMO


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 14, 2008)

*Thank you , but I decided to stay.*



dougp26364 said:


> And if you take the time to look at your accounting statements sent generally with your MF's fill, you'll see that's how it's done. My last MF bill was $20/less due to rental income.
> 
> I own 7 timeshares. MF's vary from $250 for a 1 bedroom resort with literally NO amenities (no upkeep on pools, lounges, hot tubs, club house et....) to $1,300 for a 3 bedroom in Florida (huge taxes and insurance fee's, 5 pools, 5 hot tubs, owners lounge, reception area, gas bar-b-que grilling area, pizza hut express, convenience store, tiki bar et....)
> 
> ...




A 33% increase of Administrative and Support Services and Management Fees does not amount to increased funds for purchasing new bedding, linens, soft mattresses, and "towels that wrap around the average persons waist." 

Doug, You seem to be under the impression that I don't care if my home resort is neglected, so long as I can keep the maintenance fees as low as possible. Nothing could be further from the truth. I enjoyed timesharing for 8 years now. I want to continue enjoying it for years to come. I read your invitation to leave DRI, and I'm going to turn it down. (Thanks for the offer) 
I am all for improvements and maintaining a quality resort, but I also want to get the best value for my dollar. I have never protested increases in the maintenance fee until this year. I am not going to stand by and allow DRI to just raise my fees without just cause. The explanation that they gave to justify their 33% increase just doesn't wash with me. 

I am very well aware that Sunterrra "mismanaged" the property. But it does not mean that the sole cause was because they didn't increase maintenance fees enough. Throwing money into a problem does not always fix the problem. (Its like pumping water into a leaky pool.) Alot of timeshare owners are being duped into believing this. By accepting this fallacy your playing right into the hands of timeshare developers. They make money from maintenance fees, and the more money they collect the more money they make for themselves.

That is the reason why I am fighting this 33% increase.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 14, 2008)

Fallacy? What's happening the the low rent timeshare groups right now? They're going under much like Epic and Sunterra have done. Part of the reason is POOR management. Poor management is CHEAP management in many cases. The good management follows the money. If you want quality you'll pay for it from top to bottom and that's going to include you're management company. 

Look around outside of DRI. Sure you'll find some inexpensive MF's at some resorts and in some resort chains but, look at their quality from top to bottom. Now take a look at the Hyatt's, Marriott's, Hilton's et...... There's not much in the way of bargains with their MF's but they have top quality resorts and resort management. 

Don't get me wrong. I do not love DRI. I have my issues with them as well. In fact I've contemplated selling off my DRI deeds and buying another Marriott or even HGVC week. But, I've been able to find value with THE CLub points and I.I. exchanges. But when I compare DRI's MF's to other quality resort groups they're not that far out of line.


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## winger (Sep 14, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> ...
> Don't get me wrong. I do not love DRI. I have my issues with them as well. ....



Ah Doug, and I thought you turned a new leaf!

DRI is generally headed in a good direction ... of course, not perfect by any means, but I see the effort.  If Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort is any indication, there is quality in the MF we pay.  Granted, DRI is not a Marriott (yes, that is my benchmark), but a good value for my money in many ways.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 14, 2008)

winger said:


> Ah Doug, and I thought you turned a new leaf!
> 
> DRI is generally headed in a good direction ... of course, not perfect by any means, but I see the effort.  If Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort is any indication, there is quality in the MF we pay.  Granted, DRI is not a Marriott (yes, that is my benchmark), but a good value for my money in many ways.



I have to long a history with DRI to turn a new leaf so easily. DRI's management team did a lot like Sunterra when S. Cloobeck turned his attention to things other than timeshare. MF's remained unchanged for at least 3 years (or was if four). They did this by offsetting increasing costs by lowering collections for reserve funds. In the end, Polo Towers owners paid a big (over $1,000) special assessment just to bring the units back up to 5 star (premium resort) level's. I have NOT seen the BOD/HOA increase collections for reserve funding. In fact, it went down again last year. While my other resorts collect closer to $100 for reserve funding on a 2 bedroom unit, Polo Towers collects less than $50. If this doesn't change, guess what will happen in another 10 to 15 years. 

DRI closed the owners lounge without notice to owners. As I understand it, that area will now be sales offices. For a time it was S. Cloobeck's private office. DRI controls all the public area's and can do with them as they please without owner input or regards to owner satisfaction. It took far to long to convert the tennis courts to the family water park and the SA was billed without owner input of without the required owner vote (it was retroactive). 

At this point DRI has made improvements to the old Sunterra platform but, again, much of this is being done without the apperance of getting owner input. I wasn't to thrilled about the increase in membership fee's and getting Interval Gold (a waste of money IMO) without owner input. I am, on the other hand, glad I don't have to call Steve in India to make reservations. Basically, it seems to me that DRI is steamrollling what they want THE Club to be without consulting those of us who bought into it and pay the bills. THAT is what I'm not thrilled about. 

It's going to take time to see how this all shakes out. I could pretty much guarantee the old Sunterra owners that their MF's were going to go up. They were paying far to little for resorts of the size Sunterra had built. It's a major reason why there was a lot of owner dissatisfaction with Sunterra and why they went belly up. I'm not looking for a short term solution but I am watching to see which direction DRI is heading. In general, I'm happy with the direction. But the past still lingers in my mind and I'm warry of the future. 

For now, THE Club points have value. If it wasn't for THE Club I would have sold my Polo Towers units to Devbuyback as soon as I learned they were making offers. I actually own to many timeshares and last year I used the option to convery my points to pay down my MF's. I'll probably do the same for 2009. 2010 my be the first time I actually use my points for a timeshare stay. 

In the end it might have been better for me to sell out both Polo Towers units and use that money to buy either another Marriott unit or add to my HGVC points via the resale market. I figure it will be another 4 or 5 years before I can really tell if I've made to correct decision. Right now, DRI resorts don't meet my expectations. I'd rather use the points to exchange into Marriott, Hyatt or other resorts with a higher standard than what DRI has shown in the past. Perhaps DRI will achieve that quality in the future and internal exchanges will be a real possiblity for me, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Let's just say I'm watching with cautious optimism.


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## winger (Sep 14, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> .. Let's just say I'm watching with cautious optimism.


I maybe more of an optimist than you, Doug, but I am with you on this. We both are really hoping for the best, and yes maybe four-five years later would be a good point to stop and see where were really are on this journey with the new DRI mothership with captain SC at the helm. 

I was also "this close" (imagine my thumb and index finger making a one inch...) to selling my one 1BD PLT Suites until I got wind last May/June that the Sunterra buyout had occurred.  We has always wanted a point system and I could see potential in the new "internal system".  Let's say I have confidence in SC, or maybe it's partly a gamble on our part as well.  So much so, when we converted our PLT last Oct/Nov (approx), we were Value members, today we are Gold Elite !  Now what the heck did we do ???


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## csalter2 (Sep 15, 2008)

winger said:


> I maybe more of an optimist than you, Doug, but I am with you on this. We both are really hoping for the best, and yes maybe four-five years later would be a good point to stop and see where were really are on this journey with the new DRI mothership with captain SC at the helm.
> 
> I was also "this close" (imagine my thumb and index finger making a one inch...) to selling my one 1BD PLT Suites until I got wind last May/June that the Sunterra buyout had occurred.  We has always wanted a point system and I could see potential in the new "internal system".  Let's say I have confidence in SC, or maybe it's partly a gamble on our part as well.  So much so, when we converted our PLT last Oct/Nov (approx), we were Value members, today we are Gold Elite !  Now what the heck did we do ???



I am with you and Doug. Hoping that Cloobeck is not all talk and that the gamble pays off. I would love to not have to worry about the resorts in the Diamond collection. I feel I have to do too much research to try and find out about the quality of the resorts. I too am Gold Elite. I get calls to go platinum, but won't even consider it until I see some wholesale improvements in the properties.

CS


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## dougp26364 (Sep 15, 2008)

winger said:


> I maybe more of an optimist than you, Doug, but I am with you on this. We both are really hoping for the best, and yes maybe four-five years later would be a good point to stop and see where were really are on this journey with the new DRI mothership with captain SC at the helm.
> 
> I was also "this close" (imagine my thumb and index finger making a one inch...) to selling my one 1BD PLT Suites until I got wind last May/June that the Sunterra buyout had occurred.  We has always wanted a point system and I could see potential in the new "internal system".  Let's say I have confidence in SC, or maybe it's partly a gamble on our part as well.  So much so, when we converted our PLT last Oct/Nov (approx), we were Value members, today we are Gold Elite !  Now what the heck did we do ???



You're more optimistic than I am. I don't believe that, at this point, I would entertain the idea of increasing my ownership from Silver Elite. In fact I probably have to many points as it is and could stand to sell off my Skyview Suite in tower 1. But, our youngest daughter got married last weekend and having enough points to get exchanges for family members could be a good thing to have in the next couple of years. I can either give them the exchange or our MF's by the number of points and have them pay their fare share of the cost, which would still be considerably cheaper than renting hotel rooms. Especially if they're traveling with kids. 

So for now I'll sit tight and hope for the best. Polo Towers was a very nice resort with Mr. Cloobeck was active in it's management. Now that he's active again and things have been refurbished, even my wife has mentioned that maybe we should stay there again rather than at our Marriott or HGVC ownership. 

I'm not so sure about that but we'll see how things work out. I can always convert our Marriott and Hilton weeks to rewards/Hhonors points or use them for exchanges within those systems rather than for vacations in Vegas. We'll just see how things work out as time goes on.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 18, 2008)

In the for what it's worth column, The Suite's at Polo Towers and the Villa's at Polo Towers MF's have increased 12.5 and 14.6% repectively. 

Villa's are $1,037.66 and the Suite's are $924.06 for 2 bedroom units. Last year was a similar jump after they had held MF's steady for the preceding 3 years.

The problem I have is that these MF's are in line (or exceeding) the top brands in the business but, DRI quality isn't in line with the top brands in the industry. 

So the question becomes, will quality increase to make these MF's worth the cost or is it just tossing good money after bad. From the tone I've read on this site and others, the general feeling is DRI isn't worth the price they're asking. It very well may be time to sell out and move on to a better company and product.


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## winger (Sep 18, 2008)

thanks for the heads up, doug. Suites' 1bd have increased from 545 to 615, a 12.8% increase. I was verbally informed reserve funds was part of the reason for increase. i am eagerly waiting for the 'letter' explaining the mf breakdown.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 18, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> In the for what it's worth column, The Suite's at Polo Towers and the Villa's at Polo Towers MF's have increased 12.5 and 14.6% repectively.
> 
> Villa's are $1,037.66 and the Suite's are $924.06 for 2 bedroom units. Last year was a similar jump after they had held MF's steady for the preceding 3 years.
> 
> ...



I have stayed at Marriott, and Hyatt, through II.  I am a DRI Club member and stayed at DRI resorts.  In my view the DRI resorts I stayed at are of equal quality, at least, to the other resorts I have been to.  I have also stayed, at resorts that are of higher quality then DRI, Marriot, or Hyatt.  As far as general feelings about "the price they are asking", You don't say what price you are talking about. Are you talking about trust points, the club?  I was pitched Marriott just recently and did not feel it was worth the price they were asking.  What something is worth depends on many individual factors including how you plan to vacation.  Will you go to the same place every year?  Do you want to trade every year?  For example, I stayed at a Marriott vacation resort in Hilton Head last year.  An excellent place.  Certainly not better then the DRI resorts I stayed at.  Regardless of the unit or the resort, I would not want to go to HHI again.  Under the Marriott system, which is not a points based system, it would not make sense for me to pay the price they ask for HHI.   Perhaps, a certain price point at a Marriott Resort that I would return to most years would be worth it.  

The DRI Club provides me flexibility that I value.  That flexibility has an economic value.  Every purchase needs to be weighed on an individual basis.  I have had many friends vacation with me at DRI resorts.  Some are marriott owners.  They all were impressed with DRI.  Marriott is a hotel based system and DRI is not.  DRI Club is a point based system and Marriott is not.  I would not recommend one over the other as a general rule.  It would depend on the individual.


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## winger (Sep 18, 2008)

i own both marriott and dri, i feel this offers the ultimate flexibility. of course, this flexibility does not come cheap.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 18, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I have stayed at Marriott, and Hyatt, through II.  I am a DRI Club member and stayed at DRI resorts.  In my view the DRI resorts I stayed at are of equal quality, at least, to the other resorts I have been to.  I have also stayed, at resorts that are of higher quality then DRI, Marriot, or Hyatt.  As far as general feelings about "the price they are asking", You don't say what price you are talking about. Are you talking about trust points, the club?  I was pitched Marriott just recently and did not feel it was worth the price they were asking.  What something is worth depends on many individual factors including how you plan to vacation.  Will you go to the same place every year?  Do you want to trade every year?  For example, I stayed at a Marriott vacation resort in Hilton Head last year.  An excellent place.  Certainly not better then the DRI resorts I stayed at.  Regardless of the unit or the resort, I would not want to go to HHI again.  Under the Marriott system, which is not a points based system, it would not make sense for me to pay the price they ask for HHI.   Perhaps, a certain price point at a Marriott Resort that I would return to most years would be worth it.
> 
> The DRI Club provides me flexibility that I value.  That flexibility has an economic value.  Every purchase needs to be weighed on an individual basis.  I have had many friends vacation with me at DRI resorts.  Some are marriott owners.  They all were impressed with DRI.  Marriott is a hotel based system and DRI is not.  DRI Club is a point based system and Marriott is not.  I would not recommend one over the other as a general rule.  It would depend on the individual.



We own both DRI and Marriott. We've owned at Polo Towers since 1998 and have stayed at Greensprings Plantation, Fall Creek resort and Gatlinburg Town Square. Both Greensprings and Fall Creek are under DRI management while Gatlinburg Town Square in under Summer Bay management with DRI having only some units available to DRI THE Club members for internal exchange. 

I respectfully disagree that DRI quality = Marriott quality and, if you click on the link in my signature below, I have the photo's to back up that statement. The DRI grounds and amenities are nowhere near that of Marriott or Hilton. While Marriott and Hilton have increased amenities for owners, DRI, at Polo Towers at least, has decreased the amenities when they close the owners lounge. DRI has never collected adaquate reserve funds to support their one resort, Polo Towers, and had to rely on a very large special assessement to bring them up to date. 

The cost I'm refering to is the MF's and club membership fee's charged each year. I have two 3 bedroom LO units with Marriott. The one in Vegas has a huge 2 bedroom master suite which is considerably larger than either 2 bedroom unit at Polo Towers (Villa's or Suite's) and has a full 1 bedroom LO unit. The MF's for my Marriott 3 bedroom is barely more than my 2 bedroom Villa's unit at Polo Towers.

Even with 2 of 4 hurricanes affecting my Marriott ownership in Florida a couple of years ago (ocean front), the reserves and planning by the HOA/BOD was sufficient that only a small SA was necessary to cover losses not covered by property insurance. The reserve funding promptly went up in the event this ever happened again. 

Furthermore, the HOA/BOD at both my Marriott and at my Hilton ownership's keep me informed about what is going on and what is likely to be happening at my resorts, both good and bad. DRI has been sort of blind siding me with additional fee's since they've taken over Sunterra. 

DRI has yet to achieve top quality and, I'm not certain they ever intend to achieve that standard. I do know that they intend to charge owners/members if they do. 

I have received an offer from Devbuyback and it looks like it might be good enough to take that offer and get out before the next round of increase's hits us. I own to much and am not making good usage of our DRI points anyway. I have a couple of weeks to think about this and discuss it with my wife. My feeling is I'm going to take their offer and use that money to buy something somewhere else that will beter suite our needs.


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## JRS (Sep 19, 2008)

I am an owner over in St Maarten, they raised our rates last year, if they go up again this year will consider giving it away.  I have the same impression as many other folks.  This resort is a RTU property, I feel the same as others who believe the almighty buck thru maint fees is all they're after.  Value to owners ??  What's that ?   The few individuals that I spoke with were pretty smug - will be selling asap ...... :annoyed:


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## Engineeringdude (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm sorry for what you’re going through. I feel sort of the same way. 

Different people have different ways of dealing with maintenance fees going up. I noticed that some people cope with it by turning it around and make it into a positive thing, which explains the smugness. I see it as a form of "naive denial" in the part of these individuals. Many of these individuals are going to have a rude awakening when the MFs go up again next year, and the years that follow, and realize that there were no significant or adequate "improvements" on the property to justify those increases.
But that will become their problem, not yours.

Getting out now may be the smartest move.
You know your situation better than anyone else regarding the pros and cons of owning your particular time share. I'm sure you thought it out, and came to the determination that it just not worth it. If you don't see the value, then it is just not there. 

Good luck to you, I hope you get something good for it.

Ed


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## dougp26364 (Sep 21, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> I'm sorry for what you’re going through. I feel sort of the same way.
> 
> Different people have different ways of dealing with maintenance fees going up. I noticed that some people cope with it by turning it around and make it into a positive thing, which explains the smugness. I see it as a form of "naive denial" in the part of these individuals. Many of these individuals are going to have a rude awakening when the MFs go up again next year, and the years that follow, and realize that there were no significant or adequate "improvements" on the property to justify those increases.
> But that will become their problem, not yours.
> ...



After reviewing our ownerships, like I do every year, I decided to take my own advice and sell out. DRI has a buyback program and we'll be selling out units back to DRI. 

However, it's not just because I've seen double digit increases the last two years running. It's because of the increases, the special assessment 3 years ago and the return for what I'm paying. DRI's MF's at Polo Towers have climbed to Marriott level's but, the return for the MF is not Marriott quality. If I'm going to pay MF's that are among the highest in the industry I expext quality resorts that are among the highest in the industry. DRI has not provided that for a long time and the promise that they're going to change their tune isn't worth the risk.


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## winger (Sep 21, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> After reviewing our ownerships, like I do every year, I decided to take my own advice and sell out. DRI has a buyback program and we'll be selling out units back to DRI.
> 
> However, it's not just because I've seen double digit increases the last two years running. It's because of the increases, the special assessment 3 years ago and the return for what I'm paying. DRI's MF's at Polo Towers have climbed to Marriott level's but, the return for the MF is not Marriott quality. If I'm going to pay MF's that are among the highest in the industry I expext quality resorts that are among the highest in the industry. DRI has not provided that for a long time and the promise that they're going to change their tune isn't worth the risk.



Doug. The cost is not worth the ability to trade back into II for a decent cost?  Also, if you go, let's check back in about three to five years and see where DRI is at as we will likely stick with it.  Too much going on with life in general to contemplate selling at this point.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 21, 2008)

Engineeringdude said:


> I'm sorry for what you’re going through. I feel sort of the same way.
> 
> Different people have different ways of dealing with maintenance fees going up. I noticed that some people cope with it by turning it around and make it into a positive thing, which explains the smugness. I see it as a form of "naive denial" in the part of these individuals. Many of these individuals are going to have a rude awakening when the MFs go up again next year, and the years that follow, and realize that there were no significant or adequate "improvements" on the property to justify those increases.
> But that will become their problem, not yours.
> ...



Smugness?  Naive denial?  Everyone is entitled to make their decision on whether to buy or keep a timeshare based on what they think is best for them. People will make their decisions for many reasons including projections as to what the future may bring.  Keeping a timeshare instead of selling it does not warrant a personal attack by you or anyone else.  Such decisions neither makes them "smug" nor "naive".  It is no help to anyone to go around calling people names.


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## JRS (Sep 22, 2008)

*Pgnewarkboy*

Smugness? Naive denial? Everyone is entitled to make their decision on whether to buy or keep a timeshare based on what they think is best for them. People will make their decisions for many reasons including projections as to what the future may bring. Keeping a timeshare instead of selling it does not warrant a personal attack by you or anyone else. Such decisions neither makes them "smug" nor "naive". It is no help to anyone to go around calling people names.

   I used the "smugness" term - referring to the folks that I spoke to at DRI.  It was a personal feeling of how I as a dues paying member was treated by this organization (personal opinion).  Of course not everyone will feel this way, and for those who are happy with them - fine.  Take it for what it's worth .....  I AM entitled to my own opinion - as you are ....


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## dougp26364 (Sep 26, 2008)

Just received the hard copy of our MF bill's for Polo Towers. The Villa's reserve funding is $52 and the Suite's are only $32. This is FAR to low for the future needs of these resorts and is far to small of a percentage of the total MF when compared to other top resorts in the industry.


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## thomas660 (Sep 26, 2008)

Doug,
You refered to a DRI buyback plan in an earlier thread.  Does that only apply to selected resorts?  Is there more information on the plan?  Tom


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## dougp26364 (Sep 26, 2008)

thomas660 said:


> Doug,
> You refered to a DRI buyback plan in an earlier thread.  Does that only apply to selected resorts?  Is there more information on the plan?  Tom



I do not know for sure if it's any/all resorts or only resorts that DRI needs units that can be resold into the DRI Trust. Both the Suite's at Polo Towers and the Villa's at Polo Towers have been sold out for a few years now. DRI doesn't have any inventory to sell there other than what they've forclosed on or what they can buy back. I had seen a post where DRI was making offers an Kaanapali units. 

I would imagine that you would need to own in a DRI managed resort and it would need to be a resort that doesn't have a lot of developer inventory. The only thing I could advise would be to ask by E-mailing them at devbuyback@diamondresorts.com . The worst they can say is that they are not buying back units at the resort your interested in selling.

DRI has not made this well known throughout the company. If you call CS they'll tell you it doesn't exist and will suggest you try to sell your unit on E-bay.


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## thomas660 (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks.  I'll check it out.  Tom


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 28, 2008)

I sold my maui unit back to DRI at over 80 cents on the dollar.  They specifically contacted me and I would not have sold unless they did.  I am unaware of any specific buy back program.


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## Sunterra (Sep 28, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I sold my maui unit back to DRI at over 80 cents on the dollar.  They specifically contacted me and I would not have sold unless they did.  I am unaware of any specific buy back program.


They have a specific buy back program and I expect that your quote was 80cents on your purchase price from years ago.  When they take your week and put it in their Hawaii Trust they will sell it for at least $24,000 - $45,000 depending on what view it was.


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## dougp26364 (Sep 28, 2008)

Sunterra said:


> They have a specific buy back program and I expect that your quote was 80cents on your purchase price from years ago.  When they take your week and put it in their Hawaii Trust they will sell it for at least $24,000 - $45,000 depending on what view it was.



Current offers I've read are more on the line of 25 cents on the dollar of original sales price. Our Suite's unit was originally $14,900. Current offers that I've read about, including mine, were $4,000 or 26.8 cents on the original purchase price dollar. The Villa's offer price of $5,000 works out to about the same amount. We have owned our units for 9 and 10 years. The $14,900 was a roll back price when they sold pre-construction Skyview units at Polo Towers. The price was "rolled back" to the "original" sales price when PT's started selling units. 

If they were offering 80 cents on the dollar I would be almost everyone would be jumping off the bandwagon and selling their units. Price is going to depend on location, desirablity and current inventory. If they need the inventory and are having trouble obtaining it other ways (E-bay, Redweek et....), then prices will be higher. If resale units are abundant, if they have plenty of developer inventory already or in area's that sales are sluggish, then offers are going to be lower or, there won't be an offer at all.


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