# Sudwala fees



## Sudwala2013

Hi, I welcome advice from fellow owners please. I received an email on 9 Jan that my fees were due, Niky used to ask for them in Sep, which means I've now lost 25% of the trade in value from RCI. I chased Tajrish up and have just been notified that they want a refurb contribution of 2684 rand on top of my usual fees. No explanation why and no paperwork to justify where this money goes. Is this a scam? 

Can all the owners get together to contest this with the management company? Who represents the owners? How do we challenge the management company or maybe try and get them replaced?

If I want to sell what is the best way to do this please? Any advice very gratefully received.  

Many thanks
Vanessa


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## guitarlars

I had to fight to pay my last year billings and get my unit deposited, but after two months I finally managed to make this happen. I had hoped this was only a lapse while the new management team learned the ropes. I received a similar e-mail this morning and was surprised to see a refurbishment fee (equal to the 2013 levy).  I don't recall seeing anything about this in the management report so it is a complete surprise. How this was voted on without any of the owners being involved or notified is an interesting development.

I'm now waiting for the next shoe to drop with Sudwalla - things certainly seem to be going downhill since Niky left.  I suspect we'll soon see something that reveals that the  management firm is one of the timeshare crashers (AKA a Bullfrog Lamont Company) and will have to either sell or abandon our timeshares since they will now only trade through some new SA vacation club.

Lars


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## MuranoJo

Oh great.    I haven't received notice yet, nor did I get a warning.


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## Beefnot

Why not just walk away from the timeshare?


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## Sue

Received this message just now


12 February 2013
Dear Member

We would like to alert you that we have experienced a technical anomaly which, most regrettably, has led to us issuing you with a pro forma statement / invoice, in respect of your Refurbishment Contribution, which reflects an incorrect amount.

Please accept our sincere apologies; we are rectifying the situation as a matter of urgency. Please be so kind as to disregard the pro forma statement / invoice received, you will receive the correct one shortly.

We are grateful for your understanding and for accommodating our intention to make amends, as a matter of priority.



Yours sincerely

Royal Hospitality Services








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## catwgirl

It will be interesting to see what the correct "refurbishment contribution" turns out to be.


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## pal

*Sudwala Lodge*

I received this property from my Sis who didn't want to timeshare anymore.  I don't pay any "Refurbishment Contribution" on my other Suntide Beach Club property so I don't know what this is.  Is this an annual thing?  And what have you paid in the past??


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## MuranoJo

In the 10+ years I've owned at Sudwala, I've never had to pay a refurbishment fee.  I never received any mention of this fee, until today, when I received the same note as Sue's (post #5), which says there was a mistake in a previous message (which I didn't get) and that they will re-send with the correct amount.

Whatever, sounds like there will be a follow-up with a fee charge.  Not sure what I'll do when/if that happens.  Will probably try to get rid of it.


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## Sudwala2013

I've just got an updated invoice through. I own 2 weeks. The refurb contribution is 3998 and 3598.72. My fees are 2684 and 2983. This equates to 1528USD or 971GBP. Wow. Also note that the refurb fees are 34% higher than the invoice they sent last week. Wait another week and they could go up again.  

34% increase in their calculations which indicates that they have no grip on what they are doing. No explanation of the reason for the fees. No vote on it. No evidence of due process being followed. Looks like a complete scam to me. 

I have asked for evidence of a breakdown of the fees, whether process has been followed, whether owners have been consulted. They have been unable to do any of this. I am therefore unable to deposit my week in RCI. 

We have 2 options. We all club together and either vote them out or pursue a legal solution OR we walk away. Lets also write to the respective South African embassies and let them know how the rest of the world see them.


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## stevedmatt

Overnight, I received a corrected invoice also. My refurb fees are slightly lower than yours...2799R on 1 unit ans 3198R on another. My 2013 fees were previously paid and units deposited with RCI, but they haven't been traded yet. I'm concerned they may try to pull them back if I don't pay. 

I'd like to know other owners take on this. Essentially, it's going to cost me $700US for the right to pay $600US for my 28 RCI Points lite in 2014. I've been close to trying to remove these from my portfolio as my vacationing has slowed and become more consistent. This will likely throw me over the edge.

Does anyone know if they have a deed back program? they never responded last time I asked via email.


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## Sudwala2013

*150% increase in fees. Help required please*

Hi everyone, I've owned a couple of weeks at Sudwala lodge in South Africa for about 10 years. The fees have increased by around 10% every year. The management company changed last year and the new company has sent me an invoice for refurbishment fees which amount to 150% of my levies (in addition to my levies). They gave no warning of this, its not clear whether due process has been followed, its also not clear what the fees are for. People are also getting charged different amounts. They sent me an invoice last week, recalled it because of an error and sent a new one this week for 35% more. Despite numerous emails they haven't replied to my requests for transparency. I can't deposit my weeks with RCI until this is resolved. No-one will buy the weeks until this is resolved. 

I'm sure that this isn't the first time that a management company has taken control of a timeshare and tried to extract a huge amount of money from the owners without explanation. I'd really welcome your advice on what I can do. 

Is it possible just to walk away from it and email the management company that they have frustrated my ability to utilise my week. Or should the owners club together and mount a legal challenge? 

It sounds very dodgy and I would really welcome your help and advice. 

Many thanks in advance
Vanessa


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## Rent_Share

Unless you reside in South Africa, why would you have second thoughts about walking away?

Based on certain spellings and word choices, you are not from the US

150% of my levies
they haven't replied to my requests for transparency
frustrated my ability to utilise
It sounds very dodgy and I would really welcome your help and advice


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## klynn

I am so glad I just sent off my paperwork for the sale of my two Sudwala ownerships.


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## Passepartout

These 'Refurbishment Fees', what we call 'Special Assessments' are relatively common in the world of timeshares. It happens when a resort has suspiciously too low MF. That attracts owners, but the resort gets run down and either the HOA wakes up, or the place sells and new ownership needs an infusion of cash to bring the place up to standards.

What you have to decide is if you have faith that the new owners have the owners best interests at heart, that you want to keep the refurbished resort,
 or sell, deed back, or walk away.

It's a conundrum only you can answer.

Good Luck!


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## Sudwala2013

Could all owners of Sudwala who believe that the action of Vacation Recreational Services is at best unethical and at worst illegal, please visit this website http://www.voasa.co.za/ which states that it assists with complaints against timeshare agents. You may wish to email them explaining your grievance. 

Other avenues of complaint are via the South African DTI using the following email contactus@thedti.gov.za 

You may also wish to write to South Africa embassy officials via your home country. 

We need to mount pressure together to ensure that something is done to ensure such sharp practices are not allowed to continue.


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## Passepartout

If you think your special assessment is outrageous, take a look here: http://www.orilliapacket.com/2011/10/18/outlandish-bill-leaves-timeshare-owners-steaming


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## Sudwala2013

I'd be willing to consider paying the extra fees if it affected the trade power of the resort. But:
1. I received an invoice for refurbishment fees with no explanation. A week later I got an updated invoice for 35% more, with no explanation. 
2. There is no explanation regarding what these fees are for and how they will be spent.  
3. There is no transparency at all regarding how these were voted for.  
4. Different people appear to be paying different fees and its not clear why.  

Its all very frustrating and looks very suspicious.


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## Sudwala2013

Could all owners of Sudwala who believe that the action of Vacation Recreational Services is at best unethical and at worst illegal, please visit this website http://www.voasa.co.za/ which states that it assists with complaints against timeshare agents. You may wish to email them explaining your grievance. 

Other avenues of complaint are via the South African DTI using the following email contactus@thedti.gov.za 

You may also wish to write to South Africa embassy officials via your home country. 

We need to mount pressure together to ensure that something is done to ensure such sharp practices are not allowed to continue.


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## Rent_Share

IMHO didn't the viability of the cheap South Aftrican timeshare units go into the toiet around 2005, the last time the stickies in the SA section were updated


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## stevedmatt

David, I had relatively good trade power until "points lite" was introduced by rci. Now I have to pay extra to combine weeks to pay extra to get a decent trade. Add the special assessment and I think my time is done with SA.


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## TSTex02

I received a special assessment for "refurb fees" this morning like the rest of you. Additionally I received another invoice - 20 minutes before the "refurb fee" invoice -  showing the 192R credit balance that I have from last year. 20 minutes later the "refurb fee" invoice drops my previous credit balance to zero. I had a good trust in Royal Host Services (Nicky) but VRS appears to be trying to pull something on the owners. Either that or they flunked college accounting.

The board of directors under Royal Host Services included owner representation with full visibility to the owners. That seems to have been thrown away under VRS management. Does not look good to me. Does our previous board of directors even exist, or has it been locked out by VRS?


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## glenmore

I have 3 Sudwala and have been happy with the trades I get. I received three letters via email with the refurbishment assessment. I also received three individual invoices from Tarish showing the credit balances on my accounts. If you have a credit balance, you may want to check with Tarish and have him send you an invoice showing the credit amount. I combined the credit amounts, deducted them from the total refurbishment and gave them a credit card only good for the amount of the difference between the two. We shall see how that works.


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## 5finny

*sudwala*

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=180252 See #6
I think I smell froggy


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## Suebe

*Refurb fees*

I, too, have been receiving the same confusing emails from VRS.  Original refurb levy was for the same amount as our 2013 levy (which I had to chase to pay!!) and then another refurb levy for a higher amount again.  I sent an email after receiving the first one, questioning why this had been sent and when it had been agreed, and that surely members should have been informed of the intention to charge this - before we paid our 2013 fees!!!  Still waiting for a reply!!  I intend to telephone them tomorrow to see what they have to say and will let you all know.

I did have a look at the VOASA website link posted by someone else and, if you check members, VRS are listed.  It may well be worth sending in a complaint.

Did anyone receive any AGM 2012 information?  Was an AGM even held?

Niky and Cameron were managing to regularly refurbish the resort when they were in charge - and on annual levy only - and had improved its rating to Silver Crown. We were there March 2012 and stayed in a large 1-bed unit which had been updated with new furniture, kitchen, bathroom, etc.  

I know that VRS were refurbishing the reception area and making a restaurant there.  There were supposed to be big plans for the resort but what I don't know as the ordinary shareholders have not been privy to VRS's plans. :annoyed:

Sue


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## Sydney

There is no way we are paying. It's ridiculous that they think they can just invoice us and expect us to fork over the money.
I am quite happy to walk away from what seems to me to be akin to a scam or at the very least, a new management company taking advantage.


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## JEFF H

I have a March and Sept Sudwala week that I had tried to pay the Levy on Back in october. None of my email requesting payment were answered and It slipped my mind until late Nov when I sent a email again but Still received no response. Tried again in December with the same results.
Then in January I received a invoice for my Sept week but nothing for my March week. They still have not answered any of the emails I have sent asking specifics. They only send levy statements and now special assesment fee charges that they can't seem to decide the correct amount. 

Did anyone even receive the AGM 2012 booklet detailing the proposed 2013 levy and Financial statements?
I never received one like I had in past years.
Speical Assesments would have had to be voted on and I have received none of this information. 
The only information I ever received was that VRS was taking over Sudwala and Nicky was gone.


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## itchyfeet

Ditto here.  Does anyone have a current phone number for Sudwala?  Using One Suite.com, it is very reasonable to call international long distance.  I've given up on the e-mails.  I need to get my week deposited with RCI or it will be worth nothing.  I guess if that happens, I'll just tell Sudwala to take their week back.  We were certainly spoiled with Niky!


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## Sudwala2013

If we all give our week back then whoever is doing this get exactly what they are looking for - a large holiday complex for nothing which I have a fundamental problem with. Would you mind hanging on a few weeks and in the interim lodge a complaint using the email address highlighted in the earlier threads please. Then, if you want to walk away we can do it en masse and work together on it.

Personally, I am happy to walk away but I would rather give my week to someone else who can get leverage against VRS, rather than give it to VRS. Even better if the recipient agrees to give any profit to a South African charity. If there is anyone out there who can facilitate this then please get in touch. I'd gladly give my weeks up on this basis.... but it would be good if we could get the authorities to investigate in parallel.


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## itchyfeet

I'm not giving up yet, but it certainly would be good to get some kind of response to my e-mails.


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## Suebe

*Sudwala refurb levy*

I have been in touch with VRS today, by phone, and spoke to a person called Lelani.  I explained my concerns about the statement received re the refurb levy and the fact that there had been no communication about this over the last few months.  She is sending a booklet by email to explain the reasons for the levy - I will read it and summarise it on here asap.

An AGM was held in 2012 and she was surprised that I (along with other international shareholders it would seem) had not received any notification of this meeting - and thus no chance to vote if the refurb levy was being discussed at AGM.  She was of the opinion that all shareholders had been contacted and was going to check this out with her manager and see where the problems lay - as well as the fact that no information has been received by a number of international owners. 

I also emphasised that emails are going unanswered and that it is not a good start to a new management company when the original one (Niky's) was so efficient.  The VRS website talks about excellence of service but this is not evident so far!!!

When I bought my Sudwala week, I was sent a Use Agreement so I had a quick read of this.   There is a clause in this that states 'the directors may make special levies upon the holders' and that 'such levies may be made payable in one sum or in instalments'.  So they do have the right to charge an additional levy. 

Sue


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## Suebe

*refurb fee*



Passepartout said:


> These 'Refurbishment Fees', what we call 'Special Assessments' are relatively common in the world of timeshares. It happens when a resort has suspiciously too low MF. That attracts owners, but the resort gets run down and either the HOA wakes up, or the place sells and new ownership needs an infusion of cash to bring the place up to standards.
> 
> What you have to decide is if you have faith that the new owners have the owners best interests at heart, that you want to keep the refurbished resort,
> or sell, deed back, or walk away.
> 
> It's a conundrum only you can answer.
> 
> Good Luck!



Sudwala Resort has been undergoing a refurbishment programme for the last few years and the management company who sold to this new management company ran the complex well.  Millions of rand have been invested in reroofing the units (from thatch to a special tile that resembles thatch), modernising bathrooms and kitchens in about a third of the units, as well as buying new furniture and soft furnishings, so the resort had not been left to deterioriate.  Grounds were always well-maintained and money was spent each year to improve the resort.

As well as the timeshare resort, there is also a hotel complex. It is a silver crown resort and there is probably room for some improvement still, not so much with the units but with the general facilities.  From what I can gather, part of the refurb fee is to modernise hotel facilities as well.  May be they want to get it up to Gold Crown standard - some of the other resorts they manage are GC!

Sue


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## stevedmatt

Suebe said:


> From what I can gather, part of the refurb fee is to modernise hotel facilities as well.
> Sue



Maybe I don't understand, but why should the timeshare owners pay for modernizing a non-timeshare hotel facility?


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## longnoury

*Dont like the smell of this*

When I bought my Sudwala week, I was sent a Use Agreement so I had a quick read of this. There is a clause in this that states 'the directors may make special levies upon the holders' and that 'such levies may be made payable in one sum or in instalments'. So they do have the right to charge an additional levy. 


Sounds logical as long as its the elected Board of Directors making the decision to charge the refurb fee not the management company! Sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one. Im guessing there is no mention of it in the 2012 minutes.


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## longnoury

*AGM*

As I recall, I usually get the notice to attend the AGM about a month after the meeting. Checked my file and the last minutes I received were for the 2010 meeting. Up until now I couldn't care less but maybe we should all be sending in our votes. 
They should be happy that we pay our levies year after year in advance and not try to screw us over like this. They raise them by a ridiculous 10% every year which should cover any refurbishment.
If you haven't paid your levies already i would hold off until we get more clarification on this issue. *If the shareholders didn't approve it i wont be paying!*


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## Suebe

stevedmatt said:


> Maybe I don't understand, but why should the timeshare owners pay for modernizing a non-timeshare hotel facility?



Timeshare guests can use the hotel facilities - there is a large swimming pool, the bar is in the hotel area, as is the restaurant and there are also function/conference rooms where the AGM is usually held.  The reception for timeshare is in the hotel as are some souvenir shops.  We have visited Sudwala on a number of occasions and there are some areas that could do with a make-over.  

I suppose it will benefit everyone to have these areas improved but I did ask the same question myself initially.  I have received information on the refurbishment programme as an email attachment.  If anyone wants to read it in full, send me your email address via private message and I will forward it to you.  I am going to read through it and then summarise it (with comments based on our knowledge of the resort).  The refurb levy, by the way, can be paid in full or in instalments.

I have also found a copy of the minutes of AGM that was held in September 2012.  I googled Sudwala Chalets Share Block Ltd and they came up in the search.  Not much information on any refurb.  I have asked Lelanie to send me all the documents that were supposed to have been sent out to all shareholders prior to AGM (as in past years!!).  Still waiting to receive it.

Sue


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## Suebe

*Sudwala refurb information*

According to the information I received It is the board of the resort who were instigating a total refurb of the resort based on feedback from owners and exchangees.  The document also seems to have come from RHS (the original management company run by Niky) with payment to be made to Sudwala Chalets Share Block Ltd.  Maybe this major refurb was in the planning stages before VRS became involved.  I know that when we have stayed there, Niky and Cameron have asked us for ideas as to how they could redevelop the chalets (some of the 1-bedroom units are very small).  Over the past few years internal refurbishment has been taking place but not in all units (read the AGM reports from previous years).

The Pavilion area (which houses the main reception, shops, etc) has already been modernised by Sudwala Kraal, the company that owns/runs(?) the hotel, and the restaurant is now housed in that area.  New security fencing has been erected around the whole complex as well.

One two storey flat-roofed building that used to house the admin office, the bar area, toilets, and conference room has been found to be defective and condemned.  The refurb will include knocking this down and building a new building in its place which will be a Recreation Centre with gym, games rooms, jacuzzi, sauna, changing rooms and large patio area. 

The building that is the recreation centre at the moment will become an admin centre with laundry facilities so that all laundry can be done on site.  It will also continue to house the squash court.

The old restaurant (which is quite small) will become a conference centre.

The refurbishment of the units will start in March 2013 with the two-bedroom units in C Block being totally remodelled internally.  There are only about 6 of these.  The rest of the units (one-bedroom) will have new bathrooms and kitchens where they have not already been installed, new patio furniture, new soft furnishings, etc.  There is also talk of upgrading the hotel rooms (they are like studios and may well be used by timeshare resort) with new bathrooms, kitchenettes, etc.

Staff quarters are going to be upgraded and a new entrance gate, security boom and guard house  built (this is needed).

Part of the grounds, near BLock C and hotel, will be made into a picnic area where 'welcome barbecues' can be held.

The document contains plans and photos, so if you want a copy I can send it as an email attachment.

Sue
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## itchyfeet

Thank you for posting this information.


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## longnoury

Thanks Sue for the update, its would have been nice to get this from VRS that is suppose to be running the resort on our behalf. Was there any indication if this is a one time deal or our they going to be hitting us up every year.


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## JEFF H

Thanks for the updated info sue.
I would still like to know why the 2012 AGM was not sent to owners with all the financials and director reports.
Sounds like the new managment company is just going to try and lay the blame on the old.
Nicky had a long history of being a true professional so I find this alittle hard to belive.
My March week is a loss at this point so i'm really leaning toward just walking away.


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## Suebe

I had another email today from Sheree at VRS, sending me the same refurb information, statements for 2013 levy (already paid) and refurb levy (not paid yet) as well as form for completion when paying.

Not sure why she was sending all this again!!  She did say in her email that it was a one-off levy and there would not be another one in the near future.

Their poor communication is is sharp contrast to that of Niky and her team. :annoyed:

The 2012 AGM minutes do not mention any discussion about a refurb levy.  Two of the original board of directors were voted on to the board, and another three seem to have been appointed as well.  

I am going to email VRS and repeat my request for the AGM documents sent out prior to meeting.

Sue


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## pal

What surprises me is that they are getting many emails from all over the world from us that state what is this about?  You would think they would either show their face here on TUG or replay with a general statement explaining.  I'm not inclinded be held finanical hostage until I hear what this is about.  I don't mind paying my fair share, but this seems too shady.


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## JEFF H

pal said:


> What surprises me is that they are getting many emails from all over the world from us that state what is this about?  You would think they would either show their face here on TUG or replay with a general statement explaining.  I'm not inclinded be held finanical hostage until I hear what this is about.  I don't mind paying my fair share, but this seems too shady.



It feels pretty shady to me as well.
The Sudwala levy has gone up around 10% every year so they should have had plenty of funds to maintain and refurbish the resort on a planned schedule.
The fact that the 2012 AGM booklet was not sent to owners detailing the special assesment need is very suspect on it's own.
On the one hand It may be a ploy by the new management at the resort to get owners to walk away so they can take over the shares.
OTOH, my inital investment 10 years ago was low enough that I have already received good value for it.
RCI TPU assigned to my weeks is not all that great for the total levies paid and now the special assesment will make it that much worse.
I have the feeling with nicky gone things are only going to get worse and it's time to cut my loses now.


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## longnoury

I pulled the 2012 annual report off the internet and there is no mention of the reburb fee. They just woke up in 2013 and realized they need a ton of money. That in itself is very disturbing. Is there any proxy voting at the meeting or just those few locals and their VRS buddies get to vote?
Not passing the smell test!


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## stevedmatt

JEFF H said:


> On the one hand It may be a ploy by the new management at the resort to get owners to walk away so they can take over the shares.



I know they are not replying to any emails but I have sent 3 asking how to relinquish ownership and have got no reponse. If this was the case, I think they would at least reply to my emails.


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## Susie

*Walk Away*

Unfortunately I have to walk away.  I just can't afford this anymore.
I also wrote a note attached to the levy about how to deed back and they haven't answered.
Goodbye Sudwala


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## stevedmatt

Just sent final correspondence to Sudwala until they respond.

"Simple question, will you take my weeks back? No further response from you 
will guarantee no further payments from me."

I doubt they will respond.


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## stevedmatt

Wow, more of a response than I thought, auto response....

Good Day, 

Thank you for your email. 

Please note that the Property Administration Division are currently experiencing very high email and call volumes and we kindly request that you be patient with us, as we attend to your enquiry as soon as possible. 

We would like to remind members that levies must be paid in full prior to the use or spacebanking, renting out or any other use of your week. 

When making levy payments, please use your Ref Number as indicated on the bottom right-hand corner of your levy statement, as payment reference. 

Kind Regards, 

The Property Administration Division 
Tel: 087 805 2500 
Fax: 012 996 0556


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## Suebe

Yeh, but it is just an automated response.  Their offices are not open at the weekend.  I got a couple of these when I was emailing them in December.  Still didn't get a follow-up reply and ended up phoning them in January (when their offices opened after a two-week break over Xmas!!)

Sue


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## longnoury

Not really sure what to do. Paid my levies for 2013 a long time ago and deposited my week. I use to scoop some pretty good exchanges for a low maintenance fee. Now it all boils down to number of points per dollar of levies. My Myrtle beach gives me 27 points for about $700 or $26 per point. Sudwala gives me 13 points for $350 thats $27 a point.
not counting the crazy refurb fee. Add in the lousy customer service we seem to be getting  and I will probably be moving on also. I know Ron Rutter and Fairfields use to buy them for a few bucks and handle all the paperwork. Perhaps those just abondoning there weeks might contact him.


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## socalgirl

*2009 Newsletter from Niky on Refurbishments*

[please see my attachment below which details information about
continuity and history of the refurbishment fee issue.


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## stevedmatt

http://www.vrsonline.co.za/Sudwala_AGM_2012_web.pdf

I received a response to my email which is essentially a form letter. It still didn't answer my question in regards to deed back. Included was the link above for further information. I scanned it quickly and didn't see a reference of any special assessment.


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## longnoury

Pretty pathetic response, and they expect us to trust them with our money.


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## SacFitz

stevedmatt

I haven't posted here in years, but am in the same boat as many.:annoyed:

I too would like to deed this back, and recieved the same auto generated email of them being too busy to respond right now. I wonder  when they actually will get around to responding?

I also asked about a credit on my annual levies statement that I assumed was from the overpayment of last years fees. 

Maybe they would accept that as some sort of settlement to accept the deed back request. 

Please let me know if you do get an actual response and I will do the sam

Thanks

SacFitz


stevedmatt said:


> http://www.vrsonline.co.za/Sudwala_AGM_2012_web.pdf
> 
> I received a response to my email which is essentially a form letter. It still didn't answer my question in regards to deed back. Included was the link above for further information. I scanned it quickly and didn't see a reference of any special assessment.


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## longnoury

Wouldn't get too stressed out about the deed back. Make the offer, if they don't respond just walk away. If your not from SA there is zero chance they will do anything.


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## TSTex02

*VRS email*

I just received an email from VRS, saying
Dear Sudwala Member​ Due to numerous enquiries, we as a courtesy again forward the necessary information regarding the Refurbishment. 

We  for your convenience include below the original communication that were  emailed to members as well as attach hereto the refurb brochure in PDF  format.

Kind Regards
Property Administration Division

​I have not yet read their attachment to see if it contains anything of substance, but with this wording of their email I have lost any trust in them that I had remaining. They send this information to us only "as a courtesy again". In the 2nd paragraph they insist this information "were emailed to members" previously. How many of you "Sudwala members" received this information earlier? ...that's what I thought.


What a bunch of dis-information.


For those of you trying to give your Sudwala Chalet shares back to them, Please do not act too quickly. That may be exactly what they want so they can gain a majority ownership at little cost to them. Let's not turn our backs on these people.


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## longnoury

Bernie, I also got that same lame email. 
Maybe we didn't get it because they never sent it duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


----------



## socalgirl

*2013 already deposited into RCI...CAN I EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ?*

2013 already deposited into RCI...CAN I EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------does anyone know if having already paying the 2013 levy and RCI already accepting my deposit as far back as September, 2012, and all that precedes in time any notification of refurbishment fees, IF I CAN GO AHEAD AND DO AN RCI EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ? I believe that any rules that existed at the time of levy payment should hold precedence and over-rule more recent enactments of new fees. What concerns me is that I go ahead, RCI accepts the exchange for Sudwala, and I pay the EXCHANGE FEE, nearly $200, only then to have SUDWALA pull the plug on the exchange and deny it for non payment of REFURBISHMENT FEE. If this occurs it's just another Sudwala "backstab" in this fiasco and this time an additional $ loss. Like others I am considering "walking away" so paying the refurb fee probably won't happen. I had many good years with Sudwala while Niky was there and the old management took care of client concerns expeditiously. No vote by AGM, no notice of impending refurb fee, the indignity of the 2/27 email "as a courtesy , here's YOUR NOTICE"...Remember your Constitutional Law ?...sounds like EX POST FACTO...Now the whole Sudwala sounds like a joke to me , if it weren't so serious !


----------



## glenmore

I received a copy of the refurb brochure in an email today along with the schedule of fees and payment plans.  These problems in communicating have overwhelmed them but hopefully it will all be sorted out shortly.


----------



## Sudwala2013

I received the refurb brochure too. It looks professional. But there are a few key details:
1. The refurb starts in March, but just 12 days before the work is due to start they are still working out how much to charge us. This doesn't look very well thought out to me. 

2. There is no breakdown of the work or where the money is going. At approx 20,000 USD per room this is quite a significant refurbishment fee, noting that Niky got the entire complex upgraded to Silver crown by using only the levies.

3. They comment that "this crucial initiative has already elicited an extremely positive response from our members". From the response to this thread it would appear that none of the members who use this site knew about it, never mind being consulted and being 'extremely positive'. I'd be interested in seeing the evidence to substantiate this. 

4. They also comment that "The Share Block Directors have an obligation and a fiduciary duty to look after your assets". Don't the Directors also have a responsibility to advise their members of the upcoming AGM, the agenda for the AGM, the issues to be voted on, the outcome of the AGM, the structure of any investments. Surely, they don't have an open cheque book to do what they want without reference back to owners? 

5. Why am I being asked to contribute to the development of a business centre? I thought I owned a holiday timeshare? 

6. Can I assume that the additional business revenue from the refurbished business centre and restaurant will be reinvested into the business, thereby reducing maintenance fees? Can I also assume that if all properties are refurbished in 18 months then the maintenance burden will be reduced and our fees will reduce as a consequence? Er... probably not. 

7. "Vastly improved holiday experience". Can I assume that this takes it from being Silver crown up to Gold Crown? Great - this will be very worthwhile. But they don't appear to have mentioned this. So in reality, is it fair to assume that this huge investment won't make any impact to the trade value of our weeks?  

I'd prefer to gift my weeks to someone free of charge, but in view of the complete lack of transparency, I don't think anyone would want them. I've reluctantly asked for the surrender documents, but unsurprisingly, I've not heard anything from them. 

It all looks very suspect.


----------



## Suebe

*Contact details*

For those who are wanting to surrender and waiting for a response, why not email direct to the Director, Marjorie Forssman?  I have been copying her in on recent emails that I have had to send to VRS/RHS.  Her email address is:

marjorief@oaks.co.za

The chairman of the Sudwala board was/is J W Meyer but I don't have his email address.  He is linked to VEOSA  as he is a director of that organisation as well.  Someone did post a website address for VEOSA and suggested that people complain to them.  He is (or was) linked to a company called Univision and is a director at a number of  other timeshare resorts.

Sue


----------



## longnoury

*Surrendering Weeks*

I believe that if a sufficient number of foreign owners abandon their weeks they could have a major financial problem on their hands. Sudwala in the past has had a extremely low delinquency rate on their levies. Who will make up the difference after all the defaults. Once they take the units back what do they do with them? There are 1000s of timeshares being sold on Ebay for free. In fact several will pay the closing fees and give you a $100 gift card just to get an owner to start paying those MFs again.
As others have stated its not so much the refurb fee but rather the underhanded tactics (ie waiting till everyone's paid their levies before announcing the refurb cash grab) and lack of democratic process we've seen so far (ie. telling us that all the owners were sent the info and responded favourably)


----------



## mav

Perhaps if enough owners complain and mention giving back the weeks they will rethink the refurb? Any ideas on this? I also own there and paid my 2013 fees and deposited the weeks with RCI about 1 year ago.  This does not look good. I used to own 2 summer weeks in Austria and this happened. I paid the refurb which was hugh, and they took the money, the timeshare was torn down, and rebuilt into luxury apartments and the apartments sold for a FORTUNE!  That was a very sad day for us as we LOVED our weeks there and went EVERY year. Never banked them.


----------



## Vodo

I, too, only just learned of the assessment via the brochure and purportedly already sent (but unreceived) communication from "Property Admin."  I don't believe I've paid the current MF's because I was never invoiced for them.  I've replied to the assessment message asking for a statement of my account including the assessment being charged, and also requested information concerning deeding back the unit to the resort.  I copied the Marjorie referenced in an earlier post in this thread.  If I'm remembering correctly, without taking the time to check, I haven't exchanged my last two Sudwala deposits.  Trading power is so weak during the times we can travel now that we just haven't bothered.  At this point, Sudwala is a waste of money and I would happily hand the unit back over to them.

Does anyone know if just walking away from a South Africa TS has any repercussions to U.S. credit ratings?


----------



## Sydney

We were just told deedback is not possible.


----------



## Beefnot

Oh, deedback is possible.  Just a matter of if it is the easy way or the hard way.  If you walk away from your MF obligations, they'll get that deed back eventually.


----------



## SacFitz

Sydney said:


> We were just told deedback is not possible.



I too finally heard back from Marjorie (Thanks for the email Suebe). Here's her response:

_1.	What is the process to turn the deed back (give back) my week to the resort?
The process is outlined as follows:
You have purchased shares in the Company which offer you use rights in perpetuity, and therefore the shares can’t be deeded back to the company as this would contravene the provisions of the Articles of the company and the statutes regulating the timeshare, you accordingly would need to on-sell your timeshare rights to a third party, should you wish to exit the agreement.
However we urge you to first reconsider this option as the entire market for re-sales is under pressure. Should you however despite the recommendation decide that you want to exit then you can contact your local resale agents, or we can try to put you in contact with agencies in South Africa who may be able to assist, however please note that all amounts due to the company will have to be settled to obtain a clearance certificate which is a requirement for a transfer from one owner to another._

So I guess at this point it is either walk away or try to give it away

Sacfitz


----------



## Born2Travel

*Why not?*

Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone for them to take back the units rather than have everyone just walk away?  I don't understand what they are trying to gain.  Do they think everyone will try and sell and therefore pay the fees before they sell?


----------



## longnoury

They actually are playing it smart. If they announced they would happily take them back they would get a ton of people handing their units back to the resort, mostly with fees owing.  Then who is going to pay for their swanky resort. VRS wants you to think that walking away is not an option when its really is the easiest one for most non-SA residents. I'm guessing it is probably a big headache for them to get the shares back when people abandon them, but I have no sympathy as they brought this on themselves.


----------



## Vodo

*Response from Marjorie Forssman*

We refer to your email and wish to advise that the upgrade contribution hyperlink communication did not reach all the members; we apologise and refer you to the following hyperlink http://www.sudwala.com/refurb/2013/2014.html  which contains all the details of the process and requirements.

On the positive side we have already had discussions with RCI who have seen the plans and advised that they will re-grade the Exchange Plus Points on completion of the program, and we trust that this will have a positive effect on the International ratings as well.

Due to the fact that you currently are having some problems re your RCI exchanges as per your email, may we suggest that you visit the Dial an Exchange Website on www.daelive.com as they may be able to assist you regarding your requirements? 

You have purchased shares in the Company which offer you use rights in perpetuity, and therefore the shares can’t be deeded back to the company as this would contravene the provisions of the Articles of the company and the statutes regulating the timeshare, you accordingly would need to on-sell your timeshare rights to a third party, should you wish to exit the agreement.

However we urge you to first reconsider this option as the entire market for re-sales is under pressure. Should you however despite the recommendation decide that you want to exit then you can contact your local resale agents, or we can try to put you in contact with agencies in South Africa who may be able to assist, however please note that all amounts due to the company will have to be settled to obtain a clearance certificate which is a requirement for a transfer from one owner to another.

Your statement for the levy was sent to you in January 2013 and for the refurb contribution on the 16th February 2013.

Please advise if you require any further information.

I had received neither a levy statement nor a refurbishment assessment statement, so I requested both in my reply.  I received PDF's of them shortly afterward.  On my little 1BR unit, my levy is 2983 SAR and my assessment is 3998.57 SAR (a combined total of about $660 USD based on today's conversion rates).  I am NOT a happy camper!  :annoyed:


----------



## Vodo

AND why did the levy go up 150 SAR this year.  It seems like it should have gone down or, at a minimum, stayed the same given that no or very little maintenance will have to take place on newly renovated units.

Also, in looking at the floorplan in the refurb brochure for what appears to be a nice 2BR unit, it seems unlikely that my little 1BR unit should fall into the highest assessment category.  Has everyone here been assessed 3,998.57 SAR?  I have to confess that I have no idea where my original paperwork is from back in 2002, so I don't know what my shareblock is, but I'm skeptical that my unit should fall into the highest assessment bracket.


----------



## MuranoJo

> I had received neither a levy statement nor a refurbishment assessment statement, so I requested both in my reply.  I received PDF's of them shortly afterward.  On my little 1BR unit, my levy is 2983 SAR and my assessment is 3998.57 SAR (a combined total of about $660 USD based on today's conversion rates).  I am NOT a happy camper!  :annoyed:



While I'm also not happy about this 'surprise' assessment, I have to say $660 for a year's levy (m/f) *and* an assessment is relatively inexpensive.  Special assessments aren't all that unusual in the timeshare world these days, and from what I've seen, some are way more than $660--for the assessment alone.

I agree it is very disappointing to see the deterioration in communication since Niky left.  Her focus on customer service really made Sudwala one of the better SA ownerships, IMO.


----------



## Suebe

muranojo said:


> While I'm also not happy about this 'surprise' assessment, I have to say $660 for a year's levy (m/f) *and* an assessment is relatively inexpensive.  Special assessments aren't all that unusual in the timeshare world these days, and from what I've seen, some are way more than $660--for the assessment alone.
> 
> I agree it is very disappointing to see the deterioration in communication since Niky left.  Her focus on customer service really made Sudwala one of the better SA ownerships, IMO.



VODO:  There are two types of one-bedroom units at Sudwala - 1-bed (2+2) which are small, and larger 1-bed (4).  They each have different share values.  Mine is a smaller one which is worth 8 shares, so my annual levy for 2013 is 2386R and the refurb levy is 3198.85R.  You may well have a larger 1-bedroom unit.  On the Sudwala refurb information brochure there is a list of how much you should be paying.

I agree with Muranojo.  The annual fees for a Sudwala are low by European and American standards, and I am prepared to pay the refurb levy if it helps to get the whole resort upgraded quickly.  If this then has an impact on trading power/points values, then it can only be of benefit. The work done by Niky and Cameron has already increased Sudwala's rating with RCI but there is still a lot more to do.  We have visited the resort on a number of occasions and it is a great place but improvements were needed still.  We hope to go back next year and hope to find that all the planned refurbishments will be a great improvement. 

There is a lot of scaremongering going on as well as conspiracy theories being suggested with no real substance.  Why are so many thinking that this is a deliberate attempt to get rid of owners.  The problems have started because of their crap communication!!!  Let's hope that people are being taken to task about it and it is getting sorted!!  

I remember having an email from Niky and Cameron just after the change of management company and they were both excited by the plans that the new company and owner had for the complex.  

As I have said in another message, VRS run a number of timeshare resorts in SA, some of which we have visited and are well run, well kept with modern facilities.  I, for one, am going to give them a chance.

Sue


----------



## Suebe

Vodo said:


> AND why did the levy go up 150 SAR this year.  It seems like it should have gone down or, at a minimum, stayed the same given that no or very little maintenance will have to take place on newly renovated units.
> 
> Also, in looking at the floorplan in the refurb brochure for what appears to be a nice 2BR unit, it seems unlikely that my little 1BR unit should fall into the highest assessment category.  Has everyone here been assessed 3,998.57 SAR?  I have to confess that I have no idea where my original paperwork is from back in 2002, so I don't know what my shareblock is, but I'm skeptical that my unit should fall into the highest assessment bracket.



Vodo, the number of the unit you own is shown as part of your Member Number, eg mine is 602 and then this is followed by the week number.  It also shows on the ref number after the letters SLS.  These are both on your statements from Sudwala.  The one-bedroom units are in the 100-700 blocks.  What is your number?  I would query what they have sent you.

By the way, Tajsrish has left the company so no good emailing to her.  Latest communication I have received is from Sheree Mostert (shereem @qv.co.za).

Sue


----------



## Vodo

Suebe said:


> Vodo, the number of the unit you own is shown as part of your Member Number, eg mine is 602 and then this is followed by the week number.  It also shows on the ref number after the letters SLS.  These are both on your statements from Sudwala.  The one-bedroom units are in the 100-700 blocks.  What is your number?  I would query what they have sent you.
> 
> By the way, Tajsrish has left the company so no good emailing to her.  Latest communication I have received is from Sheree Mostert (shereem @qv.co.za).
> 
> Sue



My unit reference number is SLL407.  I have asked for a confirmation that my unit does actually fall into the highest assessment category, but have not yet received a response.

I have another contact person to throw into the mix in addition to Ms. Forssman (who is the Managing Director).  Her name is Charlene van den Berg and her title is Senior Manager, Property Admin and Correspondence.  Her email addres is charlenev@qv.co.za.

As far as the assessment and levy being small by U.S. standards, the smaller fees are why I bought a SA unit.  In exchange for those lower fees, I suffer with the hassle of international transactions, communications issues, and low trading power.  If I'm going to have to pay the equivalent of high U.S. fees, I would prefer to own a U.S. property where I might at least occasionally make use of the unit I own.  (Traveling to SA is definitely NOT on my wish list.)  

I agree, though, that the entire thing may have been more palatable had there been communication about the possibility of an assessment and why, timely and appropriate notification that an assessment had been levied, and, in general, a more positive relationship between the new management and the timeshare owners they serve.  I have to doubt that any management company who deals in such a heavy handed way with its shareholders is going to do a good job, but we'll see.  My only choice is to either walk away or pay.  Since no one seems to know if walking away is likely to impact U.S. credit ratings, I feel, unfortunately, like I have to bite the bullet and pay.


----------



## Suebe

407 is definitely a 1-bedroom unit but not sure if it is a large one or not.  I have been in touch with Charlene as well and have had some responses from her.  

I do remember seeing, in the early days of ownership, a list of units that were up for resale because their owners had defaulted.  They were sent with the AGM documents and other owners could put in bids to buy them if they wanted.  So, although the Articles of Association may not allow for people to deed back their units, owners did just stop paying.  Whether they were from SA or abroad I don't know, nor whether they were chased for payment in any way.  

I know that the purchase of units by a number of Americans and Europeans who paid regularly and often in advance, was a great help to the resort and its finances. 

Perhaps this new management company are not used to dealing with international owners and these problems will get ironed out.

Sue


----------



## Suebe

Hi Vodo

Just been looking at an old AGM booklet and towards the back there is a list of all the Sudwala units along with their size and share value.  Your 407 is a large 1-bedroom unit and has a share value of 10, so it looks like the refurb figure you were quoted is correct.

Sorry!

Sue


----------



## Vodo

Suebe said:


> Hi Vodo
> 
> Just been looking at an old AGM booklet and towards the back there is a list of all the Sudwala units along with their size and share value.  Your 407 is a large 1-bedroom unit and has a share value of 10, so it looks like the refurb figure you were quoted is correct.
> 
> Sorry!
> 
> Sue



Thank you for looking that up, Sue.


----------



## Sudwala2013

Does anyone have a copy of the Use Agreement they could send me please. Could you PM me. 

Sue - Everything is so late this year that my trade in value has had a big hit. I then enquired about selling and I had someone lined up to buy it, including them paying this year's MF. It was going through then we found out about the refurb fees the offer was withdrawn and no-one will now touch it. So through their actions they have made my timeshare unsaleable. I can't sell it, I'm unwilling to pay the fees because I don't accept they are genuine unless proven otherwise, so I am left with no option but walk away.


----------



## SacFitz

Suebe said:


> VODO:  There are two types of one-bedroom units at Sudwala - 1-bed (2+2) which are small, and larger 1-bed (4).  They each have different share values.  Mine is a smaller one which is worth 8 shares, so my annual levy for 2013 is 2386R and the refurb levy is 3198.85R.  You may well have a larger 1-bedroom unit.  On the Sudwala refurb information brochure there is a list of how much you should be paying.
> 
> Sue



Hi Suebe,

I see you have the same quote as I did for the levy and refurb. I had already paid my 2013 fees in advance (~2900 Rand) so had a credit for 2013. 

I may stick it out to see where this goes, but do have concerns about the overall effectiveness of VRS. 

I asked about 2014 Levies and Marjorie said they are still working on them?? I'm confused because I see that Glenmore and a couple others have already paid them. 

How did they get a bill when Marjorie said they are working on them? 

Have you paid your 2014 levies? (sorry for all of the questions)

Glenmore -- do you have your estimated levies and did they come from VRS or Nicki?

Thanks

SacFitz


----------



## MuranoJo

Suebe said:


> .......Why are so many thinking that this is a deliberate attempt to get rid of owners.



Hi, Suebe,

I think the reason some folks might have a skeptical view may be due to all the exposure about First Resorts and 'Bullfrog' Lamont over the years.  Some very shady history of resort takeovers, hefting high fees on owners just to force them out, and then taking over the resorts and turning them into some other profit venture.

Just speculation, but it's definitely happened to other SA resorts.

Another UK Tugger didn't seem to think VRS was affiliated with Froggie.
Here's an interesting thread about a Durban owner who was offered a list of SA t/s as an option to replace a unit he/she was losing due to some goings on--and Sudwala was on the list.  Thought it was interesting at the time.


----------



## Suebe

SacFitz said:


> Hi Suebe,
> 
> I see you have the same quote as I did for the levy and refurb. I had already paid my 2013 fees in advance (~2900 Rand) so had a credit for 2013.
> 
> I may stick it out to see where this goes, but do have concerns about the overall effectiveness of VRS.
> 
> I asked about 2014 Levies and Marjorie said they are still working on them?? I'm confused because I see that Glenmore and a couple others have already paid them.
> 
> How did they get a bill when Marjorie said they are working on them?
> 
> Have you paid your 2014 levies? (sorry for all of the questions)
> 
> Glenmore -- do you have your estimated levies and did they come from VRS or Nicki?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> SacFitz



Hi

I bank my Sudwala week with DAE in the UK and do not use RCI.  Don't have to worry about trading power with DAE.  I paid my 2013 annual levy in January and then a few weeks later came the infamous refurb levy!!  I have just paid that.

Didn't Niky charge those who wanted to pay a year in advance the current levy plus 10%?  Then any difference would be paid when levy set (or credit put on account).  Surely VRS could do the same - I am convinced they are not used to dealing with owners who want to do this!!

Sue


----------



## Suebe

muranojo said:


> Hi, Suebe,
> 
> I think the reason some folks might have a skeptical view may be due to all the exposure about First Resorts and 'Bullfrog' Lamont over the years.  Some very shady history of resort takeovers, hefting high fees on owners just to force them out, and then taking over the resorts and turning them into some other profit venture.
> 
> Just speculation, but it's definitely happened to other SA resorts.
> 
> Another UK Tugger didn't seem to think VRS was affiliated with Froggie.
> Here's an interesting thread about a Durban owner who was offered a list of SA t/s as an option to replace a unit he/she was losing due to some goings on--and Sudwala was on the list.  Thought it was interesting at the time.



Yes, I have heard about First Resorts and Bullfrog Lamont.  I posted about Sudwala on another timeshare forum to see if there were any owners as members, but none so far.  If you are referring to Carolinian, he posted there to say there were no links between VRS and First Resorts.  

Also saw the posting about Durban owner.  Some Sudwala units are owned by SA timeshare clubs such as QVC - maybe there are some links to those and the offers that were being made.

Sue


----------



## carl2591

I sent a message to sudula several months ago telling them my current financial condition was not allowing me to pay the upcoming levies. I just got info on the special assesmant as well this month..

i got a interesting message back today.  They had been telling me the same thing about the resale market and such. so when i got this is set off alarm bells..



Dear Mr Carl XXXXXX



We thank you for your email and would like to discuss the following:



One of our clubs, Lifestyle Vacation club is willing to offer you R1193.00 for your unit. (which at todays rate is 130 USD.)



Kindly confirm via email your acceptance or decline.      

  (( there was image of a business card here from a place 
VRS and univision  with email address that resolves back to 
http://www.qvc.co.za/ ))







Kind regards

Property-Admin-Melanie-Farrar



anyone got a handle on what is going on here.. are they trying to get my banking info some how with a fake offer to try and rip me off..??  this deal smells FISHY>.. as hell..


----------



## leonore

*offer from Melanie Farrar, Lifestyle Vacation Club*

Hi Carl,
I just got the same offer today from Melanie Farrar, offering me R1193 for my one bedroom unit at Sudwala.  Exact same scenario as you describe.  I had written to sudwala to ask if they would take my unit back.  (I can't pay the new maintenance fee and I am no longer getting good trades)
I responded to the offer with a question...how does this work?  Now I have read your reaction and am wondering if others have been ripped off by this person/company.  Anyone?
Leonore


----------



## carl2591

leonore said:


> Hi Carl,
> I just got the same offer today from Melanie Farrar, offering me R1193 for my one bedroom unit at Sudwala.  Exact same scenario as you describe.  I had written to sudwala to ask if they would take my unit back.  (I can't pay the new maintenance fee and I am no longer getting good trades)
> I responded to the offer with a question...how does this work?  Now I have read your reaction and am wondering if others have been ripped off by this person/company.  Anyone?
> Leonore



let me know what you get back from them.. does seem odd same offer and all..


----------



## Suebe

VRS are the company that are now managing Sudwala Lodge.  Niky sold her management company, RHS, to them in May 2012.

QVC is a timeshare company in South Africa - they already own a number of units in Sudwala and I think someone from QVC was (and still may be) on the board of directors at Sudwala.

This may well be a genuine offer.  There are contact details in this thread and others on Sudwala for a senior manager at VRS and also a director.  Why not contact them and ask if the offer is genuine and not a possible rip-off.

Sue


----------



## moonshadow

Does anyone have the latest names and email contact info for Sudwala?  I seem to not be getting responses either.  I just noticed they never deposited my 2013 week with RCI.  Probably will get next to nothing now if they do too.


----------



## Suebe

moonshadow said:


> Does anyone have the latest names and email contact info for Sudwala?  I seem to not be getting responses either.  I just noticed they never deposited my 2013 week with RCI.  Probably will get next to nothing now if they do too.



A senior manager is  Charlene at charlenev@qv.co.za.  Sheree Mostert (shereem@qv.co.za) is another contact.  She has taken over from someone else who has left company.  

There are other links in this thread if you scroll through the other messages - it will give you more information about what is going on.  You should have received something recently from the new management company. 

Sue


----------



## Suebe

Sudwala2013 said:


> Does anyone have a copy of the Use Agreement they could send me please. Could you PM me.



I have a copy of the use agreement - did PM you.  Let me have your email address and I will copy it and email it to you. 

Sue


----------



## Sudwala2013

Sue. Many thanks for sending the use agreement. 

Does anyone have a copy of the management agreement too please?


----------



## longnoury

Even though I paid it a year ago, they just sent me the levy invoice for the 3rd time. 
These guys are right on top of things


----------



## Sudwala2013

You may be interested in this http://www.vrsonline.co.za/Sudwala_MOI2012.pdf

See para 10. For those of you who are interested google 'lien'. 

I welcome your comments.


----------



## gretel

*Giving the weeks away*

I have been asked for my passport number to transfer ownership. I am nervous about giving out that information. Is this common practice?


----------



## MuranoJo

I was asked to submit a copy of my passport or drivers license in order to transfer another SA t/s some time ago.  Also didn't like the idea, but in over a year and a half, haven't had any issues arise.  You might push back on them to see what they say.

Interesting that this wasn't required when we bought, no?


----------



## gretel

I didn't need it when I purchased. I specified that I wasn't comfortable offering this information and they replied that it is necessary.


----------



## klynn

gretel said:


> I have been asked for my passport number to transfer ownership. I am nervous about giving out that information. Is this common practice?


 
I was not asked to provide this information when I tranferred ownership a couple of months ago.


----------



## JEFF H

I was not asked for passport info when I transferred my weeks  last month


----------



## longnoury

After several failed attempts to contact VRS i finally got a reply from Charlene.
If any tugers have issues she said she would be happy to help resolve them. She seems genuinely concerned about the poor customer service those wishing to sell or abandon their weeks. I'm hoping this situation is starting to turn around. I took a leap of faith and paid my refurb fee.
Heres her email: charlenev@univisiongroup.net


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## MuranoJo

I'll probably also pay my refurb fee since the exchange rate has been good and getting better.  9.31 today.


----------



## MuranoJo

Sudwala2013 said:


> I've just got an updated invoice through. I own 2 weeks. The refurb contribution is 3998 and 3598.72. My fees are 2684 and 2983. This equates to 1528USD or 971GBP. Wow. Also note that the refurb fees are 34% higher than the invoice they sent last week. Wait another week and they could go up again.
> 
> 34% increase in their calculations which indicates that they have no grip on what they are doing. No explanation of the reason for the fees. No vote on it. No evidence of due process being followed. Looks like a complete scam to me.
> 
> I have asked for evidence of a breakdown of the fees, whether process has been followed, whether owners have been consulted. They have been unable to do any of this. I am therefore unable to deposit my week in RCI.
> 
> We have 2 options. We all club together and either vote them out or pursue a legal solution OR we walk away. Lets also write to the respective South African embassies and let them know how the rest of the world see them.



I finally received a bill for R3998 in the mail a couple of weeks ago.  And given the improvement in the exchange rate, I decided to go ahead and pay the refurb now (USD ~$425).  I have two weeks and was thinking the bill was for both weeks.  Now that I went through this thread to see what others were paying I noticed you were billed separately for both of your weeks, so I guess this means I'll be hit for about double that amount.  :annoyed:


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## Suebe

The refurbishment fees are per week and are dependent on the size of the apartment you own.  3998.57R is for the two bedroom apartments, then the one bedrooms are slightly less (around 3500R depending on size), and the studios are less again (around 2000R).

Sue  

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## MuranoJo

Thanks, Sue.  Yes, they told me I had to double the amount to cover both.  Heck, I think the refurb is more than I paid for these way back when.

BTW, exchange rate is better than I have seen it in ages--9.77 today.


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## Suebe

In fact, the refurb fee depends on share value of your chalet. The 10 share are the most expensive as they are the bigger chalets (also includes some 1-bedroom chalets).  At the back of the AGM reports we used to receive, there is a list of chalets and their share values which range between 10 to 5 I think.

It is a refurb of the whole resort I suppose - which *will* improve it, having visited in the past.  Let's just hope that the annual fees don't go up by too much in future years.  

Hoping to visit there next year so will be able to report back as to whether we have had value for money!!!  Meanwhile will keep looking out for resort reviews on Sudwala from other timeshare forums, as well as RCI,  to see what they have to say.

Sue


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## MuranoJo

Unfortunately, I cleaned out my Sudwala file last summer and threw away all the booklets I used to get each year--not sure if those were the AGM reports you mentioned, but I believe so.  (I would have kept the last one if I had known they were no longer sending them out.) They were like an annual report, so maybe their plan is to email them now.

At any rate, I still have the share ownership papers, and they are both 10 shares.


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## gretel

*Still trying to transfer weeks*

My experience in giving back the Sudwala weeks has not been easy. I completed all of the paperwork online. Then I was told I had to mail the paperwork to them. I sent it registered mail. They did not receive the forms (including my social security number and passport numbers!). I have proof that they were signed for (because I sent the mail registered). One month after receiving the paperwork, they found it. Now I am being told by Sheree Mostert that they can't proceed with the transfer until they receive my credit card number  to credit my account for this year's levies. I did not pay this year's levies, yet my account shows a credit in May (so they must have charged a credit card on file). When I asked that the levies be credited back to my credit card, I was told that they do not keep credit card numbers on file. How did they charge me for the levies then? Something just isn't right. My next step is to search all of my credit card statements for that time period. What a pain!

Has anyone been successful in transferring their weeks in dealing with Sheree Mostert and Hannelie de Klerk?


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## Suebe

gretel said:


> My experience in giving back the Sudwala weeks has not been easy. I completed all of the paperwork online. Then I was told I had to mail the paperwork to them. I sent it registered mail. They did not receive the forms (including my social security number and passport numbers!). I have proof that they were signed for (because I sent the mail registered). One month after receiving the paperwork, they found it. Now I am being told by Sheree Mostert that they can't proceed with the transfer until they receive my credit card number  to credit my account for this year's levies. I did not pay this year's levies, yet my account shows a credit in May (so they must have charged a credit card on file). When I asked that the levies be credited back to my credit card, I was told that they do not keep credit card numbers on file. How did they charge me for the levies then? Something just isn't right. My next step is to search all of my credit card statements for that time period. What a pain!
> 
> Has anyone been successful in transferring their weeks in dealing with Sheree Mostert and Hannelie de Klerk?



Go to the top. Contact a director of the company and tell her all that has happened. Marjorie Forssman. Email address is marjorief@univisiongroup.net.  You may get a better response and action!

Sue


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## carl2591

gretel said:


> My experience in giving back the Sudwala weeks has not been easy. I completed all of the paperwork online. Then I was told I had to mail the paperwork to them. I sent it registered mail. They did not receive the forms (including my social security number and passport numbers!). I have proof that they were signed for (because I sent the mail registered). One month after receiving the paperwork, they found it. Now I am being told by Sheree Mostert that they can't proceed with the transfer until they receive my credit card number  to credit my account for this year's levies. I did not pay this year's levies, yet my account shows a credit in May (so they must have charged a credit card on file). When I asked that the levies be credited back to my credit card, I was told that they do not keep credit card numbers on file. How did they charge me for the levies then? Something just isn't right. My next step is to search all of my credit card statements for that time period. What a pain!
> 
> Has anyone been successful in transferring their weeks in dealing with Sheree Mostert and Hannelie de Klerk?



if you have not, i would today, set up a credit freeze. Having your SSN and Passport numbers floating around can get you in trouble if someone decided to take over your IDentity. Setting up a credit freeze is easy for the most part. 
You have to do one at each of the three credit agency.. 

follow this link to Clark Howards website to learn more.. (he has been a consumer advocate for over 20 yrs on the radio and TV. ) 
http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/cla...nce-credit/credit-freeze-and-thaw-guide/nFbL/

It is a bit of effort to set up and if you need to Thaw the account but it will help prevent ID theft and it slows you down on getting instant credit like at stores etc cause you have to unlock one or more files so the instant credit can see you.. 

That alone can help you in life.. 

Depending on your state it may be a free deal.  

CHECK it out TODAY and never send SSN info in the mail...  especially to Africa.. where do see most of the scam coming from Nigeria,   where is Nigeria,, Africa..


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## gretel

*Info*

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I will certainly go the routes suggested if the issues are not resolved quickly. I did do my due diligence with regard to checking the source for any wrong doings, asking others who have transacted their timeshares with So. Africa and in sending the mail registered. Most financial transactions require some kind of documentation (social security number). I realize that many scams come out of Africa but I would be cautious to categorize all dealings with people in the country as unscrupulous. Others on TUG have had no complaints with relinquishing their timeshares with this company and no one has come forward with stories about identity theft as a result. I'll report back if anything new develops.


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## MuranoJo

gretel said:


> My experience in giving back the Sudwala weeks has not been easy. I completed all of the paperwork online. Then I was told I had to mail the paperwork to them. I sent it registered mail. They did not receive the forms (including my social security number and passport numbers!). I have proof that they were signed for (because I sent the mail registered). One month after receiving the paperwork, they found it. *Now I am being told by Sheree Mostert that they can't proceed with the transfer until they receive my credit card number  to credit my account for this year's levies. I did not pay this year's levies, yet my account shows a credit in May (so they must have charged a credit card on file). *When I asked that the levies be credited back to my credit card, I was told that they do not keep credit card numbers on file. How did they charge me for the levies then? Something just isn't right. My next step is to search all of my credit card statements for that time period. What a pain!
> 
> Has anyone been successful in transferring their weeks in dealing with Sheree Mostert and Hannelie de Klerk?



Bold above is mine to refer to your message.  Just an idea, but perhaps when you pre-paid the previous year, you overpaid (as they generally just provide 'estimates' when you want to pay ahead and deposit early).  So maybe they are trying to credit you back the amount you overpaid?

Anyway, I've never had trouble sharing my CC# with Sudwala...just send it via email in two parts, meaning break it up into two separate emails.  Anyway, it works for me.


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