# SVO Resale: Rules of Thumb for good ratio between Staroptions and Sales Price, Maint



## ackerdl (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi everyone:

Several of you here at the board have helped me realize that I definitely do not want to buy from the developer.  About a year of research has also made me realize that I want to buy a 2BR or 2BR Lockoff Starwood Vacation Ownership Resale Unit.  The Board has also been very educational on the difference between Voluntary Resorts (the bulk of them) and Mandatory Resorts (a select few).

I'd like to buy (preferably) one or more mandatory resales and use them primarily (maybe not entirely exclusively) to either use directly or trade within the Starwood System.  Starwood's somewhat limited locations actually mesh well with my family's desires and vacation habits.


The question:  Can someone give me their experience on what is a bargain for resale for both 1) Mandatory Points and 2) Voluntary Points in terms of:

a)  StarOptions per sales price dollar

Example:  If the unit was $10,000 and I got 81,000 StarOptions, the measure would be 8.1 StarOptions per dollar.  

b)  StarOptions per annual Maintenance and Taxes

Example:  If the Star Options were 81,000 and the annual maintenance and taxes were $1,000, the measure would be 81:1.


I'm looking at it this was because, if I primarily stay within the Starwood System, I'm just looking for the cheapest points.  

Also, please give my your opinions on whether I'm looking at this correctly, given my criteria stated.  All advice considered gladly --- thanks!


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 13, 2007)

I think they way you are looking at the cost of a resale is sound, but remember exchanging is not guaranteed.  I would still buy where I wanted to go most of the time.  If you are counting on buying the cheapest Staroptions available and then exchange into Harborside, St. John, and Maui every year, you will be disappointed.  Also, be sure the unit you buy has enough Staroptions to make all the exchanges you are interested in.  For example, there are Vistana Village 2 bdms. that only have enough Staroptions to exchange into a Maui Studio.  I wouldn't buy less than 81,000 Staroptions, and if you can buy 148,100, your exchanging options will be wider.


----------



## stevens397 (Jan 14, 2007)

Always listen to Denise!


----------



## dlpearson (Jan 15, 2007)

stevens397 said:


> Always listen to Denise!



Good advice!  FYI, after my research, I found Vistana Villages to be the best mandatory resale bang for the buck (but avoid the lockoff units--the maintenance/taxes are astronomical compared to the standard 2 bedroom).  Also recommend a minimum of 81k StarOptions.  You should be able to find a 2bedroom resale with 81k StarOptions in the $8-9k range fairly easily.  Less if you're patient.

David


----------



## ackerdl (Jan 16, 2007)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the advice so far.  You've confirmed some things I thought I knew and given me a few more things to think about.  I appreciate this and any additional advice.

(Pssst, anyone want to sell a Vistana Villages 2BR with 81,000 StarOptions ???)

Dave


----------



## Denise L (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi Dave,

Do you have any idea of which Starwood resorts you'd like to visit, and during which season? How flexible are you with travel dates? 

These are just a couple of the questions you need to ask yourself. If you can travel off-season and will be fine in studios, then the minimum you need is 67,100 SOs.  But if I were you, I'd take DeniseM's advice and go for at least 81,000 SOs. The least expensive resales at mandatory resorts will be at Vistana Villages. Next will be Westin Kierland. Search recent threads for a discussion of resale prices for both of these resorts.  I think a 148,100 EY Kierland went for $23K recently. Sometimes you can find a deal for Westin Ka'anapali, you just have to be really, really lucky.

What is your budget?


----------



## ackerdl (Jan 17, 2007)

Denise L.,

Thanks for the thoughts and questions.  As far as size, I'm leaning toward the 2-bedroom because I will most often travel with my wife and my 5-year old.  Although not 100% necessary on all trips, it will be nice for the 5-year old girl to have her own room, especially if we take one of her friends.  A large 1BR would squeeze us by on an exceptional trip to an exceptional destination.

On resorts to visit, we visit both Orlando and Myrtle Beach as regular family vacation destinations, and they would represent the bulk of our future trips.  The Colorado mountains in the summer are also attractive as a change (we're not skiers); my wife and I have been there once.  I also have been to Phoenix and Palm Springs but the family has never been.  Would like to take them some year as a change in vacation destinations for them.  Hawaii is not a really big draw for us; I have been there once --- maybe as an exceptional trip sometime, but not as the norm.

Most travel would be as a family in summer (when school is out).  By exception, we would travel in other seasons.   Also by exception, I might use leftover points and travel alone to golfing destinations in a 1BR or studio alone or with some golfing friends from work or church.

All of the above has gotten me in the mode of thinking "2BR, at least 81K points, mandatory resort" within the Starwood system.  Budget is open, but I'd like to minimize the capital investment (sales price) and the ongoing costs (maintenance fees and taxes) because, well ..... I'm cheap! 

Since I am a rookie (own no timeshares yet), could you also comment on the "tradeability" of a Vistana Villages 2BR in general, for the case that we would by exception want to go somewhere else outside of the Starwood system.  I know Orlando is a hugely popular destination, but I also know it seems to have a ton of timeshares ....

Thanks!

Dave


----------



## stevens397 (Jan 17, 2007)

Please read the Starwood article in the Advice section of TUG - it will answer many of your questions.  They are the same questions we all had when we started.

In terms of trade-ability, Starwood can be tricky.  Your points have no priority within the Starwood network - a point is a point no matter where you own it.  And if you choose to trade through Interval, the week you reserve will not be the week that Starwood deposits.  You're right, Orlando is certainly overbuilt and not hard to trade into.  Beyond trading, it's often possible to simply buy an Interval Getaway and have a very cheap vacation in Orlando without giving up your week.

The only other option is trading with an outside company where you could trade a specific week.  But again, it might not be the best trader as, again, there are many in Orlando.  And as someone who owns a very mediocre trader, I can tell you it's no pleasure making the request and waitin and waiting and waiting.....

Good luck.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2007)

ackerdl said:


> Denise L.,
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts and questions.  As far as size, I'm leaning toward the 2-bedroom because I will most often travel with my wife and my 5-year old.  Although not 100% necessary on all trips, it will be nice for the 5-year old girl to have her own room, especially if we take one of her friends.  A large 1BR would squeeze us by on an exceptional trip to an exceptional destination.
> 
> ...



When you say 2bd - I wil advise not having that extra bedroom as a studio lock-off (lock-out) portion to get the 5 yr old their own bedrom.  You would not want to put a small child - or even a teenager - in the separate studio unit.  Go for a 2Bd that isn't a LO.  The MFs are lower - and why have an extra fully equipped extra studio. btw, from the little I know marriot is better set-up for 2Bd units that are not LOs (at least the one I saw in Poipu).  Many of the SVO 2bd units are LO.


----------



## Denise L (Jan 17, 2007)

ackerdl said:


> Most travel would be as a family in summer (when school is out).  By exception, we would travel in other seasons.   Also by exception, I might use leftover points and travel alone to golfing destinations in a 1BR or studio alone or with some golfing friends from work or church.



WMH may be easy to book in the summer because it is SO hot, maybe in the 110-115s? Orlando or Kierland will be relatively easy too, especially if you own there (depending on where you buy your resale). I am not familiar with how difficult it is to get Colorado or Myrtle Beach. Remember that "leftover" Staroptions may only get you night or two, if anything, and I think you can book at 90 days out, which limits availability.



> Since I am a rookie (own no timeshares yet), could you also comment on the "tradeability" of a Vistana Villages 2BR in general, for the case that we would by exception want to go somewhere else outside of the Starwood system.  I know Orlando is a hugely popular destination, but I also know it seems to have a ton of timeshares ....



Orlando is overbuilt with timeshares, but Starwood will deposit a week from its system and it may not be an Orlando week. I don't have any experience with how a random Starwood week trades, but you might search these boards for any comments. There don't seem to be a ton of owners posting about trading their weeks via II.


----------



## Henry M. (Jan 17, 2007)

I agree about a small child in a LO, but I wouldn't think a teenager would be a problem. In Maui the LO has a foyer between it and the main room and you might not hear a smaller child sleeping in it from the main bedroom, even with the doors propped open. A 1 BR is good for two adults and a child or two (even large teenagers) in the living room sleeper sofa or roll away bed.

The nice thing about a LO is that you can use one side and exchange/rent the other, or use the other for a separate vacation. I prefer a LO to a 2 BR unit because of this. This year I'm taking my family to Maui for a couple of weeks in the summer and will use the LO for another trip to a wedding in September. I couldn't have done this without a LO unit. A LO also allows you to split your vacation into two weeks at a destination. I think you get a lot of flexibility out of it.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 17, 2007)

emuyshondt said:


> I agree about a small child in a LO, but I wouldn't think a teenager would be a problem. In Maui the LO has a foyer between it and the main room and you might not hear a smaller child sleeping in it from the main bedroom, even with the doors propped open. A 1 BR is good for two adults and a child or two (even large teenagers) in the living room sleeper sofa or roll away bed.
> 
> The nice thing about a LO is that you can use one side and exchange/rent the other, or use the other for a separate vacation. I prefer a LO to a 2 BR unit because of this. This year I'm taking my family to Maui for a couple of weeks in the summer and will use the LO for another trip to a wedding in September. I couldn't have done this without a LO unit. A LO also allows you to split your vacation into two weeks at a destination. I think you get a lot of flexibility out of it.



I understand the utility and flexibity of a 2bd LO - I was discussing the 2Bd vs. a 2bd LO with a child - or even a teenager (unless mature).  I would be uncomfortable with them in the separate studio - plus why have the extra fridge, W/D, stove, microwave, dishwasher - and the extra MF - compared to having a 2Bd/2Ba unit (non-LO).  I think not having some 2Bd (non-LO) units at WKORV is a detriment to those who would want their kids in the same general area.  We own a WKORV LO - and the studio is VERY separate from the 1Bd side. I think WKORV-N has eliminated this issue somewhat with a shared door.


----------



## Transit (Jan 17, 2007)

Your Plan sounds very simular to mine. I have a 2 bedroom 81000 starpoints at Vistana Villages and I travel with my wife and son (11).I plan on using the SVN for most of my stays. I was able to get early June at Harborside pretty easy.School in South Fl. finishes May 31 so i"m hoping to be able to get into some of the better resorts a little easer than the summer crowd. My first stay was at the Villages and I stayed in the smallest unit they have there, a one bed deluxe and there was plenty of room for us (my son brought a friend).I don't plan on exchanging any time soon but I did out of curiosty check to see what was avalible on II (request first ) for Vegas I saw some good trades available. When I checked for Hawaii I saw nothing.If you can play this system good it's a great value.                                                                                                I learn something new here everyday I never thought about the lockoffs being so seperate .


----------



## Transit (Jan 17, 2007)

I double posted somehow..sorry


----------



## ackerdl (Jan 18, 2007)

Very interesting ---- so you found that your family could make do quite nicely with the 1BR --- giving the option to split it into two 1BR stays at the same or multiple resorts in the same year.  Now you really have me thinking ....


----------



## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

ackerdl said:


> Very interesting ---- so you found that your family could make do quite nicely with the 1BR --- giving the option to split it into two 1BR stays at the same or multiple resorts in the same year.  Now you really have me thinking ....



If you buy a 2 bedroom lockoff and plan on two 1 bedroom stays, make sure you buy 148,100 SOs and not 81,000.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2007)

ackerdl said:


> Very interesting ---- so you found that your family could make do quite nicely with the 1BR --- giving the option to split it into two 1BR stays at the same or multiple resorts in the same year.  Now you really have me thinking ....



81,000 Staroptions will get you about 3 weeks, in a 1 bdm., at about half of the current SVN resorts, if you can go off-season, and of course if you can get the exchange.  (The least expensive Staroption exchange is 20,700.)

Off-season:
Broadway Plantation
Desert Oasis
Mountain Vista
Sheraton PGA
Mission Hills
Kierland


----------



## Robert D (Jan 18, 2007)

*Vistana Villages for $3,850*

A Vistana Villages 2Br with 81,000 staroptions just sold yesterday on Ebay for $3,850 - see listing 230074995753.  This is the lowest price I've seen for a unit like this.  Apparently anytime you buy a SVN mandatory resort resale, you also have to pay SW a $599 fee to keep the SVN membership.


----------



## glenn1000 (Jan 18, 2007)

blujahz said:


> We own a WKORV LO - and the studio is VERY separate from the 1Bd side.



If you get door stops to prop the inner doors of the LO open (on both the 1BR and studio sides), the WRORV LO can function as a regular 2-beroom. We did this when our kids were younger but now that they are older they like to keep the door shut.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2007)

It's a great price, even if it is an EOY, but the seller is so confused about what they own, that I would be a bit concerned...  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...nZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbsQQfviZ1


----------



## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

*This auction was an EOY even*



Robert D said:


> A Vistana Villages 2Br with 81,000 staroptions just sold yesterday on Ebay for $3,850 - see listing 230074995753.  This is the lowest price I've seen for a unit like this.  Apparently anytime you buy a SVN mandatory resort resale, you also have to pay SW a $599 fee to keep the SVN membership.



Even years only, with first occupancy in 2008, so if you double the price you get $7700 which is in the range for 2 bedroom EY intervals on ebay ($6500-$9250). The seller clearly did not spend much time on his auction, listing the square footage as totally inaccurate at first. Also, there is no $599 fee that I know of.

We may not know what else is inaccurate about the listing.


----------



## Denise L (Jan 18, 2007)

glenn1000 said:


> If you get door stops to prop the inner doors of the LO open (on both the 1BR and studio sides), the WRORV LO can function as a regular 2-beroom. We did this when our kids were younger but now that they are older they like to keep the door shut.



We are _experts_ at propping the doors open (tightly rolled face towels) and hardly notice them after a minute. Sure, it's a pain to do laundry, but we're used to it. 

Plus, we use the large shared entryway to store all of our pool and beach gear, strollers, extra beach towels, etc. Where will I put all of that stuff if I stay at WKORV-N one of these days  ?


----------



## Robert D (Jan 18, 2007)

I had not heard of the $599 fee either but called Starwood and they confirmed that if you buy a mandatory resort resale, you have to pay $599 to get the SVN membership transferred or you don't get the StarOptions. She also told me that I could pay the $599 fee and get a SVM and StarOptions for my TS at Vistana Resort and Desert Oasis that I bought as a resale (see my separate posting on this). I didn't think this was possible but if it is so, it might be worth doing.  Also, I agree the seller of the VV didn't have a very good ad, but I've gotten some of my best deals on Ebay from bad or incomplete listings after asking a lot of questions and making some calls to verify what you're getting.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 18, 2007)

glenn1000 said:


> If you get door stops to prop the inner doors of the LO open (on both the 1BR and studio sides), the WRORV LO can function as a regular 2-beroom. We did this when our kids were younger but now that they are older they like to keep the door shut.



Yes - we did the same, but that wasn't my point - it was about having a 2Bd LO versus a 2Bd non-LO - and having kids stay there - PLUS having a separate equipped studio (and associated MFs). This comment was intended to those who would be uncomfortable with this - not knowing that how the LOs are set-up.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jan 18, 2007)

Robert D said:


> I had not heard of the $599 fee either but called Starwood and they confirmed that if you buy a mandatory resort resale, you have to pay $599 to get the SVN membership transferred or you don't get the StarOptions. She also told me that I could pay the $599 fee and get a SVM and StarOptions for my TS at Vistana Resort and Desert Oasis that I bought as a resale (see my separate posting on this). I didn't think this was possible but if it is so, it might be worth doing.  Also, I agree the seller of the VV didn't have a very good ad, but I've gotten some of my best deals on Ebay from bad or incomplete listings after asking a lot of questions and making some calls to verify what you're getting.


We have bought three mandatory SVO weeks at 3 different resorts - No $599 fee.


----------



## duke (Jan 18, 2007)

blujahz said:


> We have bought three mandatory SVO weeks at 3 different resorts - No $599 fee.



David is correct. There is no $599 fee for anything.

Also, no matter what you are told they will not requalify a voluntary resort by paying a $599 fee.

Duke


----------



## Transit (Jan 18, 2007)

ackerdl said:


> Very interesting ---- so you found that your family could make do quite nicely with the 1BR --- giving the option to split it into two 1BR stays at the same or multiple resorts in the same year.  Now you really have me thinking ....



I suggest you see the units yourself and look at the staroptions chart to see how many staroptions you need for your travel plans.


----------



## Ken555 (Jan 19, 2007)

stevens397 said:


> Beyond trading, it's often possible to simply buy an Interval Getaway and have a very cheap vacation in Orlando without giving up your week.



This is a great point and should be emphasized, especailly for Orlando. 

I just did a search for Orlando between 2/1 and 5/1 and found these resorts (among others):

- Marriott's Grande Vista Resort (studio, 1 & 2 bed)
- Marriott's Cypress Harbour (2 bed)
- Marriott's Imperial Palm Villas (3 bed)
- Marriott's Royal Palms Resort (2 bed)
- Marriott's Sabal Palms Resort (2 bed)
- Sheraton Vistana Resort (1 bed; Apr 28th only)
- Sheraton Vistana Villages (1 bed; April 29th only)

Prices are about $350-ish per week. Some of these didn't have much availability...so if you really need that 2-bed every time you might want to purchase...or look at other resorts (there were 40 resorts with availability, I only listed those from Marriott or SVN).

I don't get to Orlando often, but I know I'll get there via II using this program rather than trading or buying.


----------

