# Questions about Hanalei Bay Resort  (2009 thread)



## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi,

I'm trying to do my due diligence on the purchase of a two bedroom timeshare at Hanalei Bay.  So far, I've heard a lot of nice things about the resort, but I'm a financial programmer and my Dad (who will be sharing the timeshare) is an accountant, so we want to look at the balance sheet and figure out our risks before we buy in.

1.) Is there any public information on the VOA's balance sheet and cash flows?  In particular, I am concerned about whether the VOA has any debt and if it has adequate reserves. I am also concerned about the $200/year increase in maintenance fees and how much of that increase is attributable to the ongoing operations of the resort and how much is attributable to cleaning up deferred maintenance.

2.) The VOA's website lists different unit numbers at the bottom of the By-laws section than the unit numbers I've seen on maps.  Is there a good way to figure out which units are the vacation-owned two bedrooms?  I stayed on the third floor of the Ginger building two years ago and want to try and figure out my likelihood of reserving a similar view in future years.

3.) It looks like the by-laws mandate that the VOA carry insurance; I am trying to estimate my exposure in the event of a hurricane or other natural disaster.  Is there any information about whether the insurance covers flooding or earthquakes, and how high is the deductable? 

Thanks in advance!  I appreciate your help and advice.


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## aliikai2 (Nov 3, 2009)

*Good questions,*

I don't know where you will find this info , however, there has been a management change as the HOA bought out a contract and hired a well respected firm.

You can learn more,

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109580

fwiw, 
Greg


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## wilma (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to do my due diligence on the purchase of a two bedroom timeshare at Hanalei Bay.  So far, I've heard a lot of nice things about the resort, but I'm a financial programmer and my Dad (who will be sharing the timeshare) is an accountant, so we want to look at the balance sheet and figure out our risks before we buy in.
> 
> 1.) Is there any public information on the VOA's balance sheet and cash flows?  In particular, I am concerned about whether the VOA has any debt and if it has adequate reserves. I am also concerned about the $200/year increase in maintenance fees and how much of that increase is attributable to the ongoing operations of the resort and how much is attributable to cleaning up deferred maintenance.


There have been a couple of years of turmoil at HBR after serious mismanagement by Quintus and Celebrity Resorts. There is likely an upcoming assessment to pay for missing money, legal fees, and other costs. Someone on the yahoo hanalei bay resort group reported this is a $900,000 deficit that will need to be paid by the year round apt owners and timeshare owners:
1) Pay for the Resorts operating deficit for 2008 & 2009 $412,000
2) Legal Cost $100,000
3) Settlement Cost $105,000
4) Accounting Reserve $68,000
5) Repairs and improvements $215,000
The timeshare units are also in very bad shape and needs major refurbishment, this will likely trigger another assessment. 
The resort grounds are beautiful but the units are in bad shape, be prepared to pay more in the future. You should only buy a unit here at a rock bottom price--2 bedroom every year for no more than $3-4,000, IMHO. Hopefully the new management company will turn things around.:annoyed: :annoyed:


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

Already read about that.  I just figured that balance sheet information is something a lot of people would try to track down before making a five figure purchase.


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## Tiger (Nov 3, 2009)

there are other timeshare resorts on Kauai that are in better shape financially and physically so I sugest looking around a little


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

wilma said:


> There have been a couple of years of turmoil at HBR after serious mismanagement by Quintus and Celebrity Resorts. There is likely an upcoming assessment to pay for missing money, legal fees, and other costs. Someone on the yahoo hanalei bay resort group reported this is a $900,000 deficit that will need to be paid by the year round apt owners and timeshare owners:
> 1) Pay for the Resorts operating deficit for 2008 & 2009 $412,000
> 2) Legal Cost $100,000
> 3) Settlement Cost $105,000
> ...


Split among the 5000 VOA members, this works out to about $180 each.  Many of these numbers look like one-time expenses, like settlement and legal costs.  Is it correct to assume that aside from the increase in maintenance ($215K), correcting the operating deficit ($418K/2=$209K), and the accounting reserve ($68K), these are mostly one-time costs?

I was at HBR in 2007 and I thought the resort was really nice.  Have things gotten a lot worse since then?


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## wilma (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> Split among the 5000 VOA members, this works out to about $180 each.  Many of these numbers look like one-time expenses, like settlement and legal costs.  Is it correct to assume that aside from the increase in maintenance ($215K), correcting the operating deficit ($418K/2=$209K), and the accounting reserve ($68K), these are mostly one-time costs?
> 
> I was at HBR in 2007 and I thought the resort was really nice.  Have things gotten a lot worse since then?



Yes, things have gotten way worse. There are many other unaccounted costs including all of the people who have not paid their maintenance fees during the Celebrity era. The remodeling costs have not yet been determined and will likely be substantial. Look at tripadvisor reviews, you can see the big difference in the maintenance of year round apt owners and the moldy, seedy timeshare units. I believe there will be several years of additional costs and one would be taking a risk to buy there now. Maybe it will all work out but who knows??


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

Tiger said:


> there are other timeshare resorts on Kauai that are in better shape financially and physically so I sugest looking around a little


Any suggestions on a relatively sure view of Hanalei Bay/Bali Hai from Princeville or a comparable view?  My family fell in love with the views at sunset, and we didn't notice any difference between HBR and a Marriott besides the lack of housekeeping- although this was 2007.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 3, 2009)

When the special assessment hits I bet there will be owners willing give their units away for closing costs provided the buyer assumes all current obligations (i.e, annual fees + special assessment).


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## DonM (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> Already read about that.  I just figured that balance sheet information is something a lot of people would try to track down before making a five figure purchase.



Not sure why someone else hasn't responded to this statement you made about *a five figure purchase*

You're looking at spending $10,000 on a 2 bedroom annual at HBR???
I haven't seen those prices in years!!! Unless you're buying from the developer??? Don't do that unless you prefer paying too much for something.

Here's a one bedroom HBR on ebay that didn't get an offer at $1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Princeville-Haw...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4a9b982e61


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> When the special assessment hits I bet there will be owners willing give their units away for closing costs provided the buyer assumes all current obligations (i.e, annual fees + special assessment).


I guess I'm a little dumbfounded.  Two years ago, I looked and two bedroom annual weeks were going for $25K and we thought that was expensive.  Today, they're going for $4K.  (Glad we didn't buy back then!)

Assuming things have gone massively downhill since 2007, $200K/unit for a gut rehab of these condos plus $100K for the designer replacement of all furniture and fixtures would cost $6K per week.  (If people aren't paying their maintenance, the VOA should be able to foreclose and avoid rehabbing a commensurate number of units)  This is assuming the VOA has not incurred any debt, yet.

Does anyone know where these two bedroom units are selling for $4K or less? Thanks for all of your input so far!


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

DonM said:


> Not sure why someone else hasn't responded to this statement you made about *a five figure purchase*
> 
> You're looking at spending $10,000 on a 2 bedroom annual at HBR???
> I haven't seen those prices in years!!! Unless you're buying from the developer??? Don't do that unless you prefer paying too much for something.
> ...



My understanding is that the Wyndham does not have the same views as HBR.

The two bedrooms at HBR originally sold for $45K, which is pretty ridiculous.  Even $20K is pretty steep.  But $10K for a week in a year-round owner-equivalent quality two bedroom unit does not seem like a horrible deal at all.  I've heard the two bedroom units were all renovated over the past two years, but if they require another gut rehab and the replacement of all furniture and fixtures to get up to owner quality, that can be done for only a several thousand dollar special assessment.


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## wilma (Nov 3, 2009)

DonM said:


> Not sure why someone else hasn't responded to this statement you made about *a five figure purchase*
> 
> You're looking at spending $10,000 on a 2 bedroom annual at HBR???
> I haven't seen those prices in years!!! Unless you're buying from the developer??? Don't do that unless you prefer paying too much for something.
> ...



That ebay auction is for the Makai Club, right?

But you bring up a good point----OP are you looking to pay $10,000 or more for a 2 bedroom? If so, that is way overpriced, as I said earlier don't pay more than $3-4,000, $2500 would be a fair price given all the uncertainty and rundown condition at HBR. Personally I would not buy again (I own a 1 bedroom EOY) at HBR until they turn things around.


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

wilma said:


> That ebay auction is for the Makai Club, right?
> 
> But you bring up a good point----OP are you looking to pay $10,000 or more for a 2 bedroom? If so, that is way overpriced, as I said earlier don't pay more than $3-4,000, $2500 would be a fair price given all the uncertainty and rundown condition at HBR. Personally I would not buy again (I own a 1 bedroom EOY) at HBR until they turn things around.



Thank you Wilma.  You just saved me something on the order of $5-10K.  I will shoot for closer to $3K.  Do you know if there's a good place to find sellers who have a more reasonable view on their share's value?  I have been looking on sellmytimesharenow.com and haven't found anything priced close to fair value.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> I guess I'm a little dumbfounded.  Two years ago, I looked and two bedroom annual weeks were going for $25K and we thought that was expensive.  Today, they're going for $4K.  (Glad we didn't buy back then!)
> 
> Assuming things have gone massively downhill since 2007, $200K/unit for a gut rehab of these condos plus $100K for the designer replacement of all furniture and fixtures would cost $6K per week.  (If people aren't paying their maintenance, the VOA should be able to foreclose and avoid rehabbing a commensurate number of units)  This is assuming the VOA has not incurred any debt, yet.
> 
> Does anyone know where these two bedroom units are selling for $4K or less? Thanks for all of your input so far!


Don't make the mistake of equating *listing* prices with *selling* prices.  When you look at listings what you see are the units that haven't sold because they are overpriced.

About five or six years ago we were looking into buying a 2-bedroom HBR, and found some owners willing to sell then for about $10,000.  Since that time, of course, markets have collapsed.

As indicated above, you should be able to pick up units now for about $3k - $4k (maybe less).  But when the assessment hits there will be a lot of motivated sellers and prices should take another huge drop.  

***

The way to buy a timeshare as cheaply as possible is to decide how much you are willing to pay, then start combing the many timeshare listing sites to find units listed.  Don't worry about the listing price; make your offer to every listing you find.  

Most people will decline; some will get insulted, and a few people will get back to you ready to deal or at least negotiate.


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## DonM (Nov 3, 2009)

wilma said:


> That ebay auction is for the Makai Club, right?




No it's for a one bedroom at HBR- click on the link to verify.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Princeville-Haw...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4a9b982e61

don


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 3, 2009)

DonM said:


> No it's for a one bedroom at HBR- click on the link to verify.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Princeville-Haw...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4a9b982e61
> ...


When I click on that link I don't see anything that says this unit is Hanalei Bay resort.  I do note that the description says the resort is Wyndham Makai Club, not HBR.  Also the RCI resort number given for the resort is the number for Makai Club, whereas HBR isn't even affiliated with RCI.


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## wilma (Nov 3, 2009)

DonM said:


> No it's for a one bedroom at HBR- click on the link to verify.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Princeville-Haw...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4a9b982e61
> don



I did and it shows the Makai Club in hanalei Bay:
Beach/Ocean	Demand Color Code: 	Red - high
Resort Name: 	Wyndham Makai Club	Week #: 	--
Property Address: 	4180 Lei O Papa Road	Number of Bedrooms: 	1
City: 	Princeville	Number of Bathrooms: 	1
State/Province: 	Hawaii	Sq Footage (Sq. ft.): 	--
Zip/Postal Code: 	96722	Maintenance Fees (dollars): 	744.00
 	Display Map


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## DonM (Nov 3, 2009)

wilma said:


> I did and it shows the Makai Club in hanalei Bay:
> Beach/Ocean	Demand Color Code: 	Red - high
> Resort Name: 	Wyndham Makai Club	Week #: 	--
> Property Address: 	4180 Lei O Papa Road	Number of Bedrooms: 	1
> ...




my apologies I only searched on completed listings for HBR, and then I only read the Heading:

*Princeville Hawaii Hanalei Bay RED Timeshare For Sale*

My Bad

don


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## wilma (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> Thank you Wilma.  You just saved me something on the order of $5-10K.  I will shoot for closer to $3K.  Do you know if there's a good place to find sellers who have a more reasonable view on their share's value?  I have been looking on sellmytimesharenow.com and haven't found anything priced close to fair value.



It will be difficult to find realistic prices posted, I would start making lowball offers while tactfully communicating that you are well aware of the ongoing problems and upcoming assessments. I stayed at HBR in August and the weekly owners meeting was almost a brawl. There are many unhappy owners at HBR and I'm sure some will sell for a low price.


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## GoIllini (Nov 3, 2009)

wilma said:


> It will be difficult to find realistic prices posted, I would start making lowball offers while tactfully communicating that you are well aware of the ongoing problems and upcoming assessments. I stayed at HBR in August and the weekly owners meeting was almost a brawl. There are many unhappy owners at HBR and I'm sure some will sell for a low price.


That's really too bad.  At least 2/3 of the two bedrooms could be million dollar units if about $100K were put into them (CC: the fully-owned condos).


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 3, 2009)

GoIllini said:


> That's really too bad.  At least 2/3 of the two bedrooms could be million dollar units if about $100K were put into them (CC: the fully-owned condos).



But as soon as you slice ownership of that condo into 50 pieces, it's not worth as much.  The developer sells it for more because the developer runs a big high-pressure sales program. 

But realistically, if someone were interested in spending $1 million for an ocean front condo in Hawai'i, they're not going to make an offer on a timeshare.  A whole timeshare condo is a very illiquid asset. 

When you make condo into a timeshare, it's no longer comparable to a condo.


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## GoIllini (Nov 5, 2009)

Does anyone have any recent photos of the timeshare rooms- particularly two bedrooms?



> But as soon as you slice ownership of that condo into 50 pieces, it's not worth as much. The developer sells it for more because the developer runs a big high-pressure sales program.


Out of curiosity, how hard would it be for a VOA to convert into an LLP and run as a resort or convert back to condos? It seems like if almost all of the owners are unhappy with a timeshare, there should be a way for them to change the legal structure.

Edit:

Just saw the note on the owner's association website:
http://www.hanaleibayresortowners.com/

Looks like a $2.1 Million special assessment, or $751 2BD/$577 1BD.  The website seems to indicate that a lot of people have not been paying their maintenance.


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## wilma (Nov 5, 2009)

update on assessments at HBR--

From the Hanalei Bay Owners website:

Vacation Owners Association


October 21, 2009


Dear Hanalei Bay Resort Timeshare Owner:

As most of you are aware, the VOA and AOAO boards have settled all issues with Celebrity Resorts and we are moving on with a new management company, Trading Places International. We have entered into this agreement in order to assure the continued operation of Hanalei Bay Resort and to make sure that our loyal employees are able to keep their jobs.  Without this agreement, there was a good chance that the resort may have needed to close down for a period of time. 

Both boards worked very hard to get this done and, although there are many challenges ahead for Hanalei Bay Resort, we now control our own future.  In an effort to make sure that every owner knows what to expect over the next year, the following is an outline of the financial situation and what will be required to get Hanalei Bay Resort back to where we all want it to be.

Over the next eight months you are going to see the implementation of a three part program to correct the Hanalei Bay Resort problems.  We will first take care of the immediate needs of the resort as outlined in Part I below,  then we are going to stabilize the financial condition through an accurate budget for 2010 as in Part II, and then in Part III we are going to refurbish and remodel all 77 of the VOA timeshare units.  This process will require cooperation, coordination and support from the owners and will include three separate assessments. 

Part I.  The Recovery

2009Supplemental Assessment:  This assessment is to fulfill the agreement that we made with Celebrity Resorts and to provide operating funds for the balance of 2009.

            Accounts Payable                                                                                $ 191,428
Settlement Costs – buy out of our management contract               $ 510,000
            Legal Defense Costs                                                                            $   70,920
            Reserve for settlement Final accounting reconciliation                       $    7,500
            Repayment of advances to Celebrity                                                   $ 217,000
            Operating funds for balance of 2009                                                  $ 781,615
            Administration, Collections, Transition Fees                                      $ 234,030
GET Tax                                                                                             $   87,507

Total:                                                                                                   $2,100,000

The VOA supplemental assessment to cover the VOA expenses is $577 per interval for a one bedroom unit ($289 for even/odd owner) and $751 for a two bedroom interval ($375 for even/odd owner).  The amount is due in full 30 days from the date of this notice and must be received by December 1, 2009.  If possible, please pay by check so the association does not incur credit card merchant fee charges.

Delinquent Accounts:  Hanalei Bay Resort is now under the control of the AOAO and VOA boards, which are comprised of owners only and, we now have the ability to do what is best for the resort.  We also have the help of Trading Places International in managing the day to day affairs of the resort.  For a number of reasons, many owners did not pay their 2009 maintenance fees.  This really hurt Hanalei Bay Resort and is part of the reason we are operating in a deficit. 

We have been operating at a deficit for the past five (5) years.  This has forced us to borrow from the following years assessment fee payments to pay current year expenses.  The first year we did this we only had to borrow one (1) months expenses from the following year’s assessment payments but this escalated over the years until this year the VOA ran out of money in August.  One of the reasons we entered into this settlement agreement was to gain control of our expenses and to overcome this deficit. 

Things have changed and the value of your timeshare and your future vacations will significantly improve as we turn Hanalei Bay Resort around.  If your payment is more than 13 months past due, your timeshare is subject to foreclosure.   A program to collect delinquent 2009 maintenance fees through arranging of payment plan program will be supported by Trading Places International. This should help us collect much of the outstanding fees and help owners avoid losing their weeks.

Part II.  Stabilization

2010 Maintenance Fee:  This will be billed in November of 2009, and is due by January 1, 2010.  This regular annual assessment will provide the income to fund the VOA’s  operating expenses for the 2010 calendar year.

Part III.  Improvements and Remodel

Special Assessment:  This assessment will pay for the remodel and renovation of all 77 of the VOA units over the next two years.

At this time we don’t know how much money we need to accomplish the remodels.  We are going to put out requests for proposals from professional planning and remodeling companies that specialize in resort and condo projects. 

In the past, there has been very poor communication to the owners.  Your VOA board is committed to a higher degree of owner communication and education.  We have an active website www.hanaleibayresort.com and we will be mailing and emailing updates and information to owners on a regular basis.  We want every owner to know exactly what is happening at Hanalei Bay Resort all the time.  We also want input from owners on any subject that is relevant to Hanalei Bay Resort.

Sincerely,

Richard Schweickert, President
Hanalei Bay Resort VOA


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## Tiger (Nov 5, 2009)

GoIlini

Many timeshare resorts have 5000+ owners.  Immagine trying to get them to agree to anything.

I wonder if any resort ever was bought out by a developer with cash to owners.  Right now it seemes that developers are doing that on the cheap by accumulating enough voting shares to control the boards and legally skim off the top for salaries and expenses.


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## Tiger (Nov 9, 2009)

on Ebay now Hanalei Bay, 1br, every even year, currently $68


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## wilma (Nov 9, 2009)

There is also a totally clueless ebay auction for a $18,000 2 bedroom at HBR. There is a furious ongoing discussion on at the yahoo HBR owners group regarding assessments and whether the settlement & new management company will solve the myriad problems.


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## Tiger (Nov 11, 2009)

starting bid lowered to $18.40


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## GoIllini (Nov 12, 2009)

wilma said:


> There is also a totally clueless ebay auction for a $18,000 2 bedroom at HBR. There is a furious ongoing discussion on at the yahoo HBR owners group regarding assessments and whether the settlement & new management company will solve the myriad problems.



So what are the owners' views on TPI so far?  Positive?  I've googled them and can't find a whole lot of negatives in the management space.


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## jlr10 (Nov 12, 2009)

It is probably too soon to tell.  Many owners are upset about an assessment and that is all they can see.  It will be a while before the dust clears at HBR and there is a true picture of how TPI will do. But we have been at other resorts they manage and was very pleased, so have hopes that things will improve.


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## tombo (Nov 12, 2009)

This is the current Even year one bed room e-bay auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TIMESHARE-RED-1...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item588407e221

I doubt there will be any bids if you want to buy it you will own it cheap.


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## wilma (Nov 14, 2009)

tombo said:


> This is the current Even year one bed room e-bay auction.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/TIMESHARE-RED-1...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item588407e221
> 
> I doubt there will be any bids if you want to buy it you will own it cheap.



Went for $107.50, wonder who will pay the 1st assessment due now!


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## katsgarden (Nov 15, 2009)

*HBR*

We exchanged into a 2 bedroom this past Sept at the HBR.  The "first room" they assigned to us (first floor) was flooded from a broken water line from the 3rd floor.  Two days later they gave us a unit on the 3rd floor.  The view was totally amazing... everything else was horrible.  Both units were moldy, smelly, and in major need of repair and updates.  Bugs, cockroaches.. just plain nasty. We spent a total of 2 nights there (on the 3rd floor). Zero nights with the first unit.  It will take a lot more then new furniture to make it a decent place to stay.  II read my review about this resort and gave my deposit back to me and compensated me with a bonus certificate.  It still did not make up for the experience.


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## Zib (Nov 16, 2009)

I believe some resorts in Kauai do charge the energy charge!  We stayed at the Cliffs a year ago and they charged us a $50 energy charge.  We owned there years ago but sold because the mt. fees were so high, so now we just trade into Hawaii.  They did not have an energy charge when we owned there.  We were told by the lady at the check in desk, that only people who traded in were charged.  Owners were not charged, so I guess it doesn't hold true there that the person who uses the energy pays for it.


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## Zib (Nov 16, 2009)

Something strange just happened.  I was on the thread about "Maui Schooners energy charge" and I posted the above, but it came out on this thread and I don't know how to delete it!  Can't figure out how it got to this thread cuz I never looked at this thread.  Sorry!


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## GregGH (Apr 11, 2010)

Bump to thread

_I'm trying to do my due diligence on the purchase of a two bedroom timeshare at Hanalei Bay. So far, I've heard a lot of nice things about the resort, but I'm a financial programmer and my Dad (who will be sharing the timeshare) is an accountant, so we want to look at the balance sheet and figure out our risks before we buy in._

GoIllini - initial post - valid point -- to see what FUTURE liabilities you can find yourself in ... I have seen almost no other posting on this point.  I might think it will become more an issue.  Similar issue on thread for Westin in Maui on owners defaulting and implication to the remaining.

I have always been in love with this resort, having rented in an owners unit but had chance to see a TS unit a few yaers ago -- and you say they have gotten worse .... OMG ....   I tried to subscribe to the yahoo DB but as not being an owner ... oh well ....

It is had to look at a ship that is slowly sinking.  The owners who resent additional assessments ... it seems there has to be the 'mother of all assessments' yet to come.  Every year you don't pay for stuff--it compounds.

How many TS's have ever gone bankrupt?  Did they come back as  a TS or ??  How many agreements are in place here ( owned units, TS, common area's, public area's eg-restaurant area's ) - can the 'owned units' owners think they can go ti alone?

...  sometimes when you let things rot away TOO long it is better to start fresh ??  Sorry if I offend any current owners - I have the luxury of being impartial.  The percentage of overdue owners will have a bearing.  The resistance of owners to surcharges just  accelerates the slide.

Check my posts on HBR - I have been watching the events at HBR for a few years ... will keep waiting to see what happens

Greg


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## JudyS (Apr 12, 2010)

Interesting thread! I just saw it now that it had been bumped.

A couple of questions. Based on what I have read in this thread, there are 77 timeshare condos. How many whole ownership condos are there? I'm wondering how much of the common areas are the timeshare's responsibility.  Are the common areas in good shape?

What sort of ownership does HBR have?  Is it deeded, RTU, fixed weeks, floating weeks? If owners don't have rights to a specific condo out of the 77 timeshare condos, then that would give the VOA more options.  If, say, 2/7ths of the owners wanted to walk away, they could take 22 of the 77 timeshare condos and convert them back to whole ownership condos. Even in bad shape, the condos would probably be worth something if sold as whole ownerships, and even if they didn't bring in much when sold, at least the VOA wouldn't be stuck rehabbing and maintaining timeshare weeks that had no paying owners. 



katsgarden said:


> We exchanged into a 2 bedroom this past Sept at the HBR.  The "first room" they assigned to us (first floor) was flooded from a broken water line from the 3rd floor.  Two days later they gave us a unit on the 3rd floor.  The view was totally amazing... everything else was horrible.  Both units were moldy, smelly, and in major need of repair and updates....


Letting pipes leak and cause water damage is a major, major mistake. DH & I live in an old house that is part masonry, part wood frame.  The previous owners let the pipes leak and cause water damage.  (They seemed to think the way to handle deteriorating pipes was to patch them a little, then put in another layer of ceiling to cover up the water damage. Some parts of our house had three or four layers of ceiling!)  The masonry walls handled the water fine, but some of the wooden parts of the house had to be completely ripped out and reframed -- that is, rebuilt from scratch. If our house had been all wood, it might have needed to be torn down.


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## jlr10 (Apr 14, 2010)

JudyS said:


> Interesting thread! I just saw it now that it had been bumped.
> 
> Are the common areas in good shape? *with some  minor exceptions the common areas were in great shape when we were there last May. They have improved the landscaping which makes the view even more fantastic, and there was constant work on the common areas when we were there.  There was a problem with the automatic starters on the BBQs but we had the same problem at Marriott Waiohai.  The common areas were not the problem.*
> 
> ...



The dust is still clearing at HBR.  The annual meeting is coming up shortly.  Hopefully the VOA and AOAO will be able to give an update.  I cannot comment on all the owners.  But I can comment on the owners who were at the AOAO meeting last year (which included VOA members) all were willing to fight to keep the resort in the hands of people who cared about the resort, not making a profit.  There may be some defaults at HBR, but I think there are defaults in all timeshares right now.

Doing the due diligence, which appears to be happending here, is the best choice.  Get the facts and make an informed decision based on what you find.

As for us, we are staying with HBR until we have no money left.  May be soon than later, but we choose to stay until we no longer can.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 31, 2014)

Since this is a very old thread and  this thread  is new I'm going to close this thread.  

Ask any questions about what is going on at HBR on the other thread.


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