# Cancel & Rebook problems?



## DeeDibble (Oct 19, 2014)

Due to the introduction of Wyndham Pass; the new "internal exchange" between Wyndham and Worldmark is anyone having trouble getting back a reservation while canceling and rebooking existing reservations for their VIP discounts?


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## ronparise (Oct 19, 2014)

DeeDibble said:


> Due to the introduction of Wyndham Pass; the new "internal exchange" between Wyndham and Worldmark is anyone having trouble getting back a reservation while canceling and rebooking existing reservations for their VIP discounts?



I just cancelled and rebooked several reservations.no problem. Except that they came back faster this time than the last time we discussed this

I never considered that Club Pass might have an impact on this>

I think its important to remember that cancelling and rebooking to save some credits is not a benefit we are entitled to. There are no guarantees. If  you do this regularly you will lose some, There are no guarantees.  Its a loophole that we take advantage of...  I wouldnt do it for a time thats important to you unless you  have a back up


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## chapjim (Oct 20, 2014)

*Cancel & Rebook Problems*

Yes, I have had problems in the last few weeks and at places I never had problems before (Bonnet Creek, where I've rebooked dozens of reservations in the last couple of years).

I can't attribute it to anything in particular.  I still maintain lost reservations are mostly due to the resort having overbooked one way or another (e.g., had to take units out of service).  I don't know if Wyndham's reservation system will allow a resort to be purposefully overbooked.  I'd think not.

I've never found a lost week on Extra Holidays so I tend to discount that as a cause of lost reservations.

On one occasion, the canceled reservation showed up after less than a minute but when I clicked on it, it said it was no longer available.  Mostly, they have just not showed up at all.

I just lost one at Sea Gardens but I have very little experience there.

I'm thinking about changing my business model and not listing units until I've rebooked.  It's too hard and too expensive to recover from a lost reservation when you've already rented it!


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## Bigrob (Oct 21, 2014)

chapjim said:


> Yes, I have had problems in the last few weeks and at places I never had problems before (Bonnet Creek, where I've rebooked dozens of reservations in the last couple of years).
> 
> I can't attribute it to anything in particular.  I still maintain lost reservations are mostly due to the resort having overbooked one way or another (e.g., had to take units out of service).  I don't know if Wyndham's reservation system will allow a resort to be purposefully overbooked.  I'd think not.
> 
> ...



VERY VERY TRUE. Not to mention, frightening to the person to whom you're renting. The answer of course is more points so you can double up the reservation you need. then if it doesn't come back, you still have one. That becomes your low-margin deal but at least you aren't jeopardizing someone's vacation or scrambling to find a reservation.

The system DOES allow overbooking, by the way. When I talked to the resort at Skyline they indicated they are usually 10% overbooked but generally still around 90% occupancy due to no-shows. Seems like a lot of no-shows... I guess I'm more protective of my points than most. I don't know if the allowed over-booking is basically because the resort knows there are units out of service that get "booked", or whether there are actually more units loaded as inventory than actually exist. 

FYI, I am not surprised at losing a reservation at BC during a cancel/rebook. There are 127 listings on redweek for BC and a lot of those are floating. Since it sells out frequently, I think there are a lot of folks searching for things to pop open.

I too have felt the frustrating of being "second in line" when the unit pops open, but then is gone by the time I click it. And it was at Bonnet Creek where it happened.


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 22, 2014)

I suspect that someone has figured out how to programmatically grab up some rooms.   I have experienced the same issues others have noted here.  I see stuff come back (so I do think they are coming back into the system), but I can't complete the reservation.  I'm pretty sure someone's figured out how to program to grab a reservation. 

I've noticed it more so with larger units (3 and 4 BR) and presidential units.  No way right now I will rent someone anything larger than a 2 BR (as I do hold 2 rooms so I can guarantee the rental and I don't want to eat the cost of giving away a larger unit). 

It's been frustrating, that's for sure.


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## tschwa2 (Oct 22, 2014)

It would make sense that one of those companies that manage several million VIP accounts would design a program to catch the cancelled units rather than pay someone to be on the lookout all day and all night to try to manually catch the weeks.


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## jebloomquist (Oct 22, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> It would make sense that one of those companies that manage several million VIP accounts would design a program to catch the cancelled units rather than pay someone to be on the lookout all day and all night to try to manually catch the weeks.



I have thought about writing a program to do some things with the Wyndham web site. In a previous incarnation I was a computer programmer. I was good enough that I kept getting promoted. Finally, I wasn't programming anymore and lost all of my technical skills. But, I still can analyze a situation for its difficulty.

What any program would have as input is what the Wyndham site reports based upon any request. Then it has to be parced the screen output to acquire information. The output varies considerably which makes this very difficult. Any company trying to do this might find it as difficult as getting Obama Care up and running. 

It is not impossible, but I would bet that any person or company that tried it, gave up on getting anything that was really effective.

If I ever really spend some time trying, I would never let anybody else know. But, if anyone is interested in throwing ideas around, I would enjoy the conversation.

Jim


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## DeeDibble (Oct 26, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I just cancelled and rebooked several reservations.no problem. Except that they came back faster this time than the last time we discussed this
> 
> I never considered that Club Pass might have an impact on this>
> 
> I think its important to remember that cancelling and rebooking to save some credits is not a benefit we are entitled to. There are no guarantees. If  you do this regularly you will lose some, There are no guarantees.  Its a loophole that we take advantage of...  I wouldnt do it for a time thats important to you unless you  have a back up


Thanks Ron,   I had to ask again since its been awhile since I was asking about it .  I hope you are correct about the internal exchange system probably not impacting the system in a negative way for owners.  My largest fear was the new exchange system would automatically "grab" cancellations.  We use our points to go to Florida for 8-10 weeks in the winter and try to utilize the cancel/rebook to secure another 2 to 4 weeks to get away here and there the rest of the year.


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## DeeDibble (Oct 26, 2014)

Sandi Bo said:


> I suspect that someone has figured out how to programmatically grab up some rooms.   I have experienced the same issues others have noted here.  I see stuff come back (so I do think they are coming back into the system), but I can't complete the reservation.  I'm pretty sure someone's figured out how to program to grab a reservation.
> 
> I've noticed it more so with larger units (3 and 4 BR) and presidential units.  No way right now I will rent someone anything larger than a 2 BR (as I do hold 2 rooms so I can guarantee the rental and I don't want to eat the cost of giving away a larger unit).
> 
> It's been frustrating, that's for sure.


I hope and pray that know one can create a system that automatically grabs the inventory, especially for people like me and my husband that have invested in Wyndham to use for personal use.


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## DeeDibble (Oct 26, 2014)

*Cancel & Rebook*

Is it safe to assume that most of us aren't really competing for the reservations with each other since most of us are canceling and rebooking what we already have reserved?  In other words:  while I may have a week booked, another owner has same week booked at same resort. We both go in and cancel and rebook about the same time (within 1-3 minutes if one another) wouldn't our only risk be if at the same time someone searching for a "new" reservation at the exact same time can grab it?  I also think I will call Wyndham and see if the Resort is "overbooked" before I start canceling and rebooking.  I have to admit when I cancelled and rebooked my Jan-Feb 2014 weeks I had absolutely no problem getting it done but I was totally freaked out while I was doing it.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2014)

DeeDibble said:


> ... I have to admit when I cancelled and rebooked my Jan-Feb 2014 weeks I had absolutely no problem getting it done but I was totally freaked out while I was doing it.



And I have *LOST* those very same reservations ... but I make sure my need for cheaper vacations does not cause me to freak and be homeless. 

And I HAVE been surfing and happened upon those "just released" units - which I book. Sorry ... I have lost some and I have sometimes given a home to an orphan reservation. But I have lost way more than I ever have found over the years.

I once had a new client who was upset on the price of a March week 2 bedroom unit - asking if I could reduce my price. I explained to her the RISK and right now, she could get her week and resort and unit size --- getting a cheaper price was a 50/50 chance she would have nothing. Her mother was on speaker phone helping her decide - Mom decided saving a few dollars was NOT worth the risk (who I agreed with). I would have made the same profit either way - if I recaptured the reservation. And as it was early in the year, I would have used the points elsewhere.


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## jebloomquist (Oct 26, 2014)

*Bonnet Creek cancellations*

Sandi Bo and I have discussed the issue privately.

We have concluded that, at least for Bonnet Creek, something is going on. It might relate to Tower 6 not being in service, such that there has been some overbooking. The thought is that the moment there is a cancellation, the reservation is removed. It is not reassigned, just taken out of the pool of available rentals simply because there aren't enough usable units.

Currently, 2BR reservations have been disappearing at an almost 100% rate, and others may also be disappearing. So, my advise is to be very careful.

Jim


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## Rent_Share (Oct 26, 2014)

DeeDibble said:


> I hope and pray that know one can create a system that automatically grabs the inventory, especially for people like me and my husband that have invested in Wyndham to use for personal use.



Someone did it for Bonus time (1) Worldmark, but they made it available for any owner, Wyndham/Worldmark shut it down, since the bylaws prohibit such activity.

Essentially it was a program that constantly refreshed an inquiry for a requested time and location an booked it on the owner's behalf.

(1) Last Minute Cancellations that can be booked for a substantial reduction, however severely limited in use by someone other than an owner and number of reservations per account.


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## chapjim (Oct 26, 2014)

jebloomquist said:


> Sandi Bo and I have discussed the issue privately.
> 
> We have concluded that, at least for Bonnet Creek, something is going on. It might relate to Tower 6 not being in service, such that there has been some overbooking. The thought is that the moment there is a cancellation, the reservation is removed. It is not reassigned, just taken out of the pool of available rentals simply because there aren't enough usable units.
> 
> ...



This fits exactly with my situation.  I had two 2BR Deluxe units at BC, lost them both.  (I know, fool me once . . . .)  By way of mitigation, after I lost the first one, I did some checking and found out I could get a replacement for a few bucks less than my listing price.  So, this was more a case of lost profit, not lost money.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2014)

This was also the situation at Sea Gardens a couple of years ago. Wyndham CAN and DOES have the COMPUTER ability to SNAG any unit at any resort --- when they want to. The Sea Gardens' issue was a longer than planned  renovation (Waterfalls section, I believe)  -- several months longer.

And another time was all the Pompano area resorts - Palm Aire buildings had a maintenance problem.


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## ronparise (Oct 26, 2014)

DeeDibble said:


> I hope and pray that know one can create a system that automatically grabs the inventory, especially for people like me and my husband that have invested in Wyndham to use for personal use.



Theres no need to worry. even if something like that its created, It wont affect the regular owner that just makes reservations for their own use. and who doesnt try to cancel and rebook


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Theres no need to worry. even if something like that its created, It wont affect the regular owner that just makes reservations for their own use. and *who doesnt try to cancel and rebook*



Ron, DeeDibble is cancelling and rebooking her Winter reservations.



DeeDibble said:


> Is it safe to assume that most of us aren't really competing for the reservations with each other* since most of us are canceling and rebooking what we already have reserved? * In other words:  while I may have a week booked, another owner has same week booked at same resort. We both go in and cancel and rebook about the same time (within 1-3 minutes if one another) wouldn't our only risk be if at the same time someone searching for a "new" reservation at the exact same time can grab it?  I also think I will call Wyndham and see if the Resort is "overbooked" before I start canceling and rebooking. _I have to admit when I cancelled and rebooked my Jan-Feb 2014 weeks I had absolutely no problem getting it done but I was totally freaked out while I was doing it_.



DeeDibble ... Wyndham reservations 1-800 line does NOT know what the computer system is doing or if there is a problem at the resort. And you have been very lucky to not have lost anything. *YET!*

It was a VERY BAD winter last year --- no one wants to stay north for 2015.


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## am1 (Oct 26, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Theres no need to worry. even if something like that its created, It wont affect the regular owner that just makes reservations for their own use. and who doesnt try to cancel and rebook



Last minute availability will be affected.


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## ronparise (Oct 26, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ron, DeeDibble is cancelling and rebooking her Winter reservations.



I understand that Linda. Im making the point that she should (we all should) act like the customer you talked about.  Dont play the game unless you can afford to lose. 

If you dont try to beat the system for a couple of bucks you wont get hurt.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2014)

And I still gamble ... only when the unit is not yet committed to a flight or other people's vacation days.


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## cotraveller (Oct 26, 2014)

jebloomquist said:


> I have thought about writing a program to do some things with the Wyndham web site. In a previous incarnation I was a computer programmer. I was good enough that I kept getting promoted. Finally, I wasn't programming anymore and lost all of my technical skills. But, I still can analyze a situation for its difficulty.
> 
> What any program would have as input is what the Wyndham site reports based upon any request. Then it has to be parced the screen output to acquire information. The output varies considerably which makes this very difficult. Any company trying to do this might find it as difficult as getting Obama Care up and running.
> 
> ...





DeeDibble said:


> I hope and pray that know one can create a system that automatically grabs the inventory, especially for people like me and my husband that have invested in Wyndham to use for personal use.



I don't know how Wyndham handles it, but on WorldMark (same computer system I believe) a few folks have tried robot programs like that to grab Bonus Time.  One was offering to use their tool to grab Bonus Time for others.  The robots were soon discovered and shut down.  I don't know if they did anything more drastic to the person or persons running the robots, but under the rules they could suspend or terminate their account.


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## ilenekm (Oct 26, 2014)

jebloomquist said:


> Sandi Bo and I have discussed the issue privately.
> 
> We have concluded that, at least for Bonnet Creek, something is going on. It might relate to Tower 6 not being in service, such that there has been some overbooking. The thought is that the moment there is a cancellation, the reservation is removed. It is not reassigned, just taken out of the pool of available rentals simply because there aren't enough usable units.
> 
> ...



I have been trying to book a couple of nights for my parents at BC in early December.  Aside from a couple of scattered single nights, there has been nothing available all week.  In past years, I have not had any problems with early-mid December bookings


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## ronparise (Oct 26, 2014)

ilenekm said:


> I have been trying to book a couple of nights for my parents at BC in early December.  Aside from a couple of scattered single nights, there has been nothing available all week.  In past years, I have not had any problems with early-mid December bookings



Cancelling a reservation i made 9 or more months ago, and trying to rebook it, has nothing to do with whether there is any last minute availability


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## am1 (Oct 27, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Cancelling a reservation i made 9 or more months ago, and trying to rebook it, has nothing to do with whether there is any last minute availability



If you are able to get it for half the points or less you are more likely to keep it and book it in the first place.

Also more points to book new last minute reservations before the points expire.


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## Cdn Gal (Oct 28, 2014)

jebloomquist said:


> Sandi Bo and I have discussed the issue privately.
> 
> We have concluded that, at least for Bonnet Creek, something is going on. It might relate to Tower 6 not being in service, such that there has been some overbooking. The thought is that the moment there is a cancellation, the reservation is removed. It is not reassigned, just taken out of the pool of available rentals simply because there aren't enough usable units.
> 
> ...



Why is Tower 6 not in service?


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 29, 2014)

Tower 5 is closed for renovations.  Typically Bonnet Creek remodels one tower a year.  Last I heard, they are expecting to reopen the week of Thanksgiving. 

In the past, they have not completely closed a building during a renovation, and had issue or complaints from people staying there about noise, etc.  So this year it's a little different twist as they have completely closed the tower.

I am hearing next year around the same time it will be Tower 6.  That will interesting since all 1, 2, and 3 BR Presidential units are in Tower 6.   I'm not sure exactly when they will start, but a good thing to keep in mind if you are someone who stays in presidential units.


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## Ron2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sandi Bo said:


> Tower 5 is closed for renovations.  Typically Bonnet Creek remodels one tower a year.  Last I heard, they are expecting to reopen the week of Thanksgiving.
> 
> In the past, they have not completely closed a building during a renovation, and had issue or complaints from people staying there about noise, etc.  So this year it's a little different twist as they have completely closed the tower.
> 
> I am hearing next year around the same time it will be Tower 6.  That will interesting since all 1, 2, and 3 BR Presidential units are in Tower 6.   I'm not sure exactly when they will start, but a good thing to keep in mind if you are someone who stays in presidential units.



Where are these rumors coming from?  Back on post#12 jebloomquist claimed that Tower 6 is currently out of service. Now you say Tower 6 will be closed next year for renovations. I have a 3-BR Pres reserved in Tower 6 for next August with a do not move order. It would seem to me that Wyndham would know well in advance if they were going to shut down a building for renovations and would avoid offering those units for reservations.


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 29, 2014)

Tower 5 is currently out of service -- you can call Bonnet Creek and confirm - it's not a rumor - the tower is closed.   (I think Jim mis-typed the tower number).  

And I agree, I'm sure Bonnet Creek knows well in advance and plans accordingly.  I heard they are remodeling Tower 6 in the fall of next year thus an August presidential would not be an issue.


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## jebloomquist (Oct 29, 2014)

Cdn Gal said:


> Why is Tower 6 not in service?



Actually, it is Tower 5, not 6. It is down for renovation. It is primarily 2 BR units. 

The renovation was supposed to take 3 weeks, and it has already been 6 weeks. Bonnet Creek will not give a date as to when it will be completed. When I pressed a person there asking what about January, the response was that "yes" it should be available by then.

Jim


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanksgiving might be real FUN at BC ... esp if Tower 5 is still closed.


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## Ron2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sandi Bo said:


> Tower 5 is currently out of service -- you can call Bonnet Creek and confirm - it's not a rumor - the tower is closed.   (I think Jim mis-typed the tower number).
> 
> And I agree, I'm sure Bonnet Creek knows well in advance and plans accordingly.  I heard they are remodeling Tower 6 in the fall of next year thus an August presidential would not be an issue.



It is difficult to imagine that Tower 5 would need renovations after about five years of use. I recall staying in Tower 4 in January 2008 when Tower 5 was under construction. No wonder maintenance fees are increasing next year. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because I've seen some significant damage to furniture even in the Tower 6 presidential units. Some people are so irresponsible. Likely they don’t own at Bonnet Creek.:annoyed:


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 29, 2014)

I agree Ron2.  I wonder what the industry average is.  Is it reasonable to renovate every 5 or 6 years?  Apparently Bonnet Creek is at pace to do so.

I also have to question how well the remodel is being managed and how does that effect our maintenance fees?  Is it reasonable to close an entire building, fall weeks behind, and risk being closed during one of the busiest weeks at Bonnet Creek?  How much is that costing us in maintenance fees?

I have heard they should be open by Thanksgiving, if not the week before.  But even when they will reopen seems a mystery, and you'll get different information depending on who you talk to. 

Agree, Linda, sounds like some crazy times at Bonnet Creek.


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## scootr5 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ron2 said:


> It is difficult to imagine that Tower 5 would need renovations after about five years of use. I recall staying in Tower 4 in January 2008 when Tower 5 was under construction. No wonder maintenance fees are increasing next year. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because I've seen some significant damage to furniture even in the Tower 6 presidential units. Some people are so irresponsible. Likely they don’t own at Bonnet Creek.:annoyed:



Bonnet Creek sees a large number of renters versus owners. Renters have no vested interest in the property, and often don't respect it as much as an owner might. It's also got a very high occupancy rate.  Given those two things it doesn't surprise me that it needs more frequent refurbishment than average. 

When we're traveling I'm constantly telling my kids to treat the unit as though it was their stuff at home, because In a way it is.


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## ronparise (Oct 29, 2014)

Sandi Bo said:


> I agree Ron2.  I wonder what the industry average is.  Is it reasonable to renovate every 5 or 6 years?  Apparently Bonnet Creek is at pace to do so.
> 
> I also have to question how well the remodel is being managed and how does that effect our maintenance fees?  Is it reasonable to close an entire building, fall weeks behind, and risk being closed during one of the busiest weeks at Bonnet Creek?  How much is that costing us in maintenance fees?
> 
> ...





I dont know the average time between renovations but I know when I managed a portfolio of apartments and rental houses,  carpets needed to be replaced more frequently than every 4 or 5 years.  I would imagine that furniture has an even shorter lifespan.  The question is, what does the budget anticipate regarding renovation schedules. If the plan is every 7 years, and it gets done every 5..fees will have to go up so we are ready next time. 

Certainly frequent renovations have to be paid for, but  closing buildings to do it doesnt add to the cost. . The whole place could be vacant and maintenance fees wont go up. We pay our fees whether the place is vacant or not.


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## Cdn Gal (Oct 29, 2014)

I think that housekeeping should take pictures before and after and people should be charged of the damage that they create.  My maintenance fees shouldn't go through the roof because people are irresponsible.  Just because you are renting doesn't give you permission to act irresponsibly.


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 29, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Certainly frequent renovations have to be paid for, but  closing buildings to do it doesnt add to the cost. . The whole place could be vacant and maintenance fees wont go up. We pay our fees whether the place is vacant or not.



Why wouldn't occupancy rate matter?


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## markb53 (Oct 30, 2014)

Sandi Bo said:


> Why wouldn't occupancy rate matter?



Because we are not paying "dollars" to be there. We pay our maintenance fees whether we are there or not. They could close the whole place and still collect the maintenance fees. Anyone trying to book there wouldn't be to happy I suppose. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 30, 2014)

*Bonnet Creek is a PRIME selling site ... must look good!*

Are we all forgetting how many sales must be generated from the unending supply of guests renting there? Young families, grandparents with grandkids, newlyweds, etc. If that isn't the place of dreams & family, I can't think of another with so much emotion & FAMILY togetherness.

As for pictures and documenting damages ... I suspect the housekeeping staff is just too overwhelmed. This is not your average, checkin on FRI and checkout the following FRI. Even DVC is in constant turmoil with 1 or 2 night stays - for that special time. Disney is expensive - many families just pack them in; run the parks; flop into the over crowded units where the kids bounce off the walls & the parents just want to die (after they drug the kids to get them to sleep).

Yes, I would expect MFs to increase. But if the economy is improving ... who will notice? (just the owners of BC; certainly not sales).


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 30, 2014)

But.... if I don't use my points at Bonnet Creek, and I use them elsewhere - say Ocean Walk.  Wouldn't there need to be some kind of reimbursement between Ocean Walk to Bonnet Creek to compensate Ocean Walk for my use of their facilities?   

And vice-versa, if I use my Ocean Walk points at Bonnet Creek wouldn't Bonnet Creek be compensated in some way. 

Just seems like it should have to affect the balance sheet of a resort not to have their rooms occupied.

And good point Linda on keeping up Bonnet Creek.  I have heard it called their flagship resort - Wyndham built from the ground up and it needs to be top notch for their sales. 

If they are at pace to renovate every 5 years, I would also wonder how well they are keeping up on maintenance on a day to  day basis.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 30, 2014)

Sandi Bo -- there is NO reimbursement for using your points between BC or OW. Your MF for that 616K BC contract *is supposed to go the BC's HOA.*

*There is supposed to be a reimbursement for VIP benefits * from the sales department ... but how that is figured and who gets it .... is anybody's guess. Think of all the VIP discounts and unit upgrades done by the megarenter at BC. Even during the offseason, that place is packed.

Now, _if the magical computer in the sky _is ONLY giving BC the MFs for the value on points USED to book reservations ... and of those VIP discounts LOST points (you know, book a 50% off 1bdr and stay in the 3bdr unit) ... are mythical ... then there might be a big sucking sound of a SA for the owners at BC ...  Except that would HURT the myth of the low MFs of BC for the sales department.


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## Bigrob (Oct 30, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> Sandi Bo -- there is NO reimbursement for using your points between BC or OW. Your MF for that 616K BC contract *is supposed to go the BC's HOA.*
> 
> *There is supposed to be a reimbursement for VIP benefits * from the sales department ... but how that is figured and who gets it .... is anybody's guess. Think of all the VIP discounts and unit upgrades done by the megarenter at BC. Even during the offseason, that place is packed.
> 
> Now, _if the magical computer in the sky _is ONLY giving BC the MFs for the value on points USED to book reservations ... and of those VIP discounts LOST points (you know, book a 50% off 1bdr and stay in the 3bdr unit) ... are mythical ... then there might be a big sucking sound of a SA for the owners at BC ...  Except that would HURT the myth of the low MFs of BC for the sales department.



I think your first example - the MF for the contract goes to BC's HOA - is correct. The second example - it being based on the magical computer in the sky giving BC MF's for points used to book reservations - I don't think is correct. 

Ultimately, extensive use of VIP benefits translates into more points chasing the same total pool of reservations (and reduced collection of RT and HK fees, which is partially compensated for by the extensive Guest Confirmation fees). To the extent that this greater number of points drives higher occupancy, which increases wear and tear rates, it could affect the rate at which a refresh/refurb is required.


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## lcml11 (Oct 30, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> This was also the situation at Sea Gardens a couple of years ago. Wyndham CAN and DOES have the COMPUTER ability to SNAG any unit at any resort --- when they want to. The Sea Gardens' issue was a longer than planned  renovation (Waterfalls section, I believe)  -- several months longer.
> 
> And another time was all the Pompano area resorts - Palm Aire buildings had a maintenance problem.



I would assume so.  Wyndham Corp. has the management company in most cases.


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## lcml11 (Oct 30, 2014)

markb53 said:


> Because we are not paying "dollars" to be there. We pay our maintenance fees whether we are there or not. They could close the whole place and still collect the maintenance fees. Anyone trying to book there wouldn't be to happy I suppose.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I believe if a whole resort is closed for good, the owners of the resort would not have the contract points available for use anymore and the resort would leave the system.


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## markb53 (Oct 30, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> I believe if a whole resort is closed for good, the owners of the resort would not have the contract points available for use anymore and the resort would leave the system.



That was probably a little bit of exaggeration on my part. I was just saying that: If you own at BC, the HOA gets your maintenance fees whether you stay there or not. The only way  a closed building would affect Wyndham would be the lost revenue from cash rentals. At Bonnet Creek I bet that is not a huge percentage.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 30, 2014)

Wyndham Santa Barbara was closed for multiple years. Yes, the FW owners STILL paid MFs along with a BIG Special Assessment and had NO USAGE or right to deposit into RCI. However, if they converted their weeks to points, then they could use the points to book elsewhere in the Wyndham system.

Big Sales Hook.


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## Sandi Bo (Oct 30, 2014)

Oh boy!  That would be awful to be paying MF and have no use.  Thanks for all the explanations and patience with me.


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## lcml11 (Oct 30, 2014)

markb53 said:


> That was probably a little bit of exaggeration on my part. I was just saying that: If you own at BC, the HOA gets your maintenance fees whether you stay there or not. The only way  a closed building would affect Wyndham would be the lost revenue from cash rentals. At Bonnet Creek I bet that is not a huge percentage.



I think you are right here, if it is a partial closing involving just some of the Wyndham Club Plus/Access units (maintenance etc.) your points are still good anywhere they would have otherwise been.


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## Bigrob (Oct 30, 2014)

Grrrrrrrrr. Lost another one. Not at Bonnet Creek.


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## am1 (Oct 30, 2014)

Bonnet Creek HOA or Wyndham should be going out of pocket to cover one tower being closed.  The same amount of points are chasing fewer units.  Why should an owner at another resort have more competition for the reservation they want?



lcml11 said:


> I think you are right here, if it is a partial closing involving just some of the Wyndham Club Plus/Access units (maintenance etc.) your points are still good anywhere they would have otherwise been.


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## chapjim (Oct 31, 2014)

jebloomquist said:


> Sandi Bo and I have discussed the issue privately.
> 
> We have concluded that, at least for Bonnet Creek, something is going on. It might relate to Tower 6 not being in service, such that there has been some overbooking. The thought is that the moment there is a cancellation, the reservation is removed. It is not reassigned, just taken out of the pool of available rentals simply because there aren't enough usable units.
> 
> ...



I called Bonnet Creek a couple of days ago and was told it was Tower 5 that was out of service (for renovations) but it would be reopened before Thanksgiving.

And, it was 2BR Deluxe units that I lost so this is starting to make a lot more sense.

Now, do I dare rebook my 2BR Deluxe reservation starting December 28th (that is already rented)?  I may just let it ride since my points expire on 12/31 and it's slim pickings out there for decent reservations.  Not much sense in trying to recover points I can't use.


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## Ron2 (Oct 31, 2014)

am1 said:


> Bonnet Creek HOA or Wyndham should be going out of pocket to cover one tower being closed.  The same amount of points are chasing fewer units.  Why should an owner at another resort have more competition for the reservation they want?



I agree that Wyndham should be contributing funds to cover the cost of refurbishing Tower 5 as well as all the other towers, not because non-owners have less access to Bonnet Creek but because Wyndham uses the resort to promote sales. As for the HOA paying more, we as BC owners are paying more to the tune of a 6.6% increase in maintenance fees for next year to cover the cost of refurbishing units every 5 years instead of every 6 years. This is all because of the excessive wear and tear caused by the high annual occupancy rate (93% according to Wyndham) and irresponsible folks who just don’t care if they damage things at the resort (most likely non-owners who don’t have a vested interest in Bonnet Creek).


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## Bigrob (Oct 31, 2014)

chapjim said:


> I called Bonnet Creek a couple of days ago and was told it was Tower 5 that was out of service (for renovations) but it would be reopened before Thanksgiving.
> 
> And, it was 2BR Deluxe units that I lost so this is starting to make a lot more sense.
> 
> Now, do I dare rebook my 2BR Deluxe reservation starting December 28th (that is already rented)?  I may just let it ride since my points expire on 12/31 and it's slim pickings out there for decent reservations.  Not much sense in trying to recover points I can't use.



I wouldn't even consider it, to be honest. Much too high a probability of losing it. And to your point, for what return?


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## chapjim (Oct 31, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> I wouldn't even consider it, to be honest. Much too high a probability of losing it. And to your point, for what return?



Occasionally, something good falls out of the sky at the 15 day point!  The blind squirrel phenomenon!


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## Bigrob (Oct 31, 2014)

chapjim said:


> Occasionally, something good falls out of the sky at the 15 day point!  The blind squirrel phenomenon!



Yes. Like perhaps the reservation I just lost.


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