# HCC vs. PE - Best Properties, Similar Destinations



## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm probably over analyzing, but who do you think has the better properties in the destinatioins I am most likely to visit next year - HCC or PE (Premier)?

1. Ski properties in Colorado or Utah?

2. Golf and beach properties in Florida?

3. Tuscany Italy?

4. Drivable properties from Boston (Vermont, Outer Banks, NYC, Other)?


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## LTTravel (Sep 3, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I'm probably over analyzing, but who do you think has the better properties in the destinatioins I am most likely to visit next year - HCC or PE (Premier)?
> 
> 1. Ski properties in Colorado or Utah?
> 
> ...



1. HCC is the winner here by far, They started as a Colorado Ski DC and are now international. Have a large selection of Ski Resorts, but remember, many of their members are from Colorado and these go quickly. There two best ski destinations: Beaver Creek Village Hall (Probably worth over $2 million, but a leased property) and Breckenridge Lodge (4500 square foot) go very quickly.

2. Premiere has only a home in Watercolor which looks like it is nicer than the HCC home in Rosemary Beach. HCC has a home in Orlando also, which is right on a Golf Course. It is very nice.

3. PE has a 1300 square foot and 1000 square foot 2 bedroom, HCC has a 1350 square foot 2 bedroom and a 950 square foot 1 bedroom. I can't tell you which ones are nicer.

4. PE has a 1900 sq foot at Stowe, 2000 sq fot 3 bedroom at Lake George, 2700 sq foot in the Outer Banks, and three apartments in NYC, HCC has a 2250 sq foot 3 bedroom at Stowe, Nothing in Lake George, 4500 sq ft 5 bedroom at the Outer Banks, 1 apartment in NYC. The apartment in 1600 Broadwa yfor HCC is a 1 bedroom, while PE's is a studio.

It would be hard to add all these up and see what's if better for you. If skiing is really your number 1, then HCC is better. But otherwise it is a tossup, except that PE does have reciprocity, except I think in the trial membership.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 3, 2007)

does PE have private pools in Tuscany? dont think HCC does.

HCC also has 3 ski-in/ski-out townhomes >
Beaver Creek 3BR
Keystone 4BR
Telluride 3BR


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## vineyarder (Sep 4, 2007)

> 1. HCC is the winner here by far, They started as a Colorado Ski DC and are now international. Have a large selection of Ski Resorts, but remember, many of their members are from Colorado and these go quickly. There two best ski destinations: Beaver Creek Village Hall (Probably worth over $2 million, but a leased property) and Breckenridge Lodge (4500 square foot) go very quickly.



Agree...



> 2. Premiere has only a home in Watercolor which looks like it is nicer than the HCC home in Rosemary Beach. HCC has a home in Orlando also, which is right on a Golf Course. It is very nice.



PE Premiere also has a beautiful condo in Orlando; it just isn't listed on the public website yet (1530 sq ft, 3 bdrm/3 ba); here is the developer website: http://www.reunionresort.com/reunion/interior.aspx?id=1666

PE Premiere also had an oceanview condo on Marco Island, but had to sell it due to an issue with a change in HOA rules.  They are leasing another condo while they seek a replacement, so they should be at 3 FL properties pretty soon.  Then there is the reciprocity with the 3 Platinum FL properties and the 1 Pinnacle property.

It's not Florida, but as far as golf properties go, the PE Premiere home at the Ritz-Carlton Reynolds Plantation is a top favorite with golfers and spa worshippers.



> 3. PE has a 1300 square foot and 1000 square foot 2 bedroom, HCC has a 1350 square foot 2 bedroom and a 950 square foot 1 bedroom. I can't tell you which ones are nicer.



Looking over the photos, the PE properties in Tuscany look nicer, but that's just my opinion.  In addition, with PE you have the option of reciprocity, using the 3300 sq ft Platinum home, set by itself on 20 acres, with private pool.



> 4. PE has a 1900 sq foot at Stowe, 2000 sq fot 3 bedroom at Lake George, 2700 sq foot in the Outer Banks, and three apartments in NYC, HCC has a 2250 sq foot 3 bedroom at Stowe, Nothing in Lake George, 4500 sq ft 5 bedroom at the Outer Banks, 1 apartment in NYC. The apartment in 1600 Broadway for HCC is a 1 bedroom, while PE's is a studio.



It's a stretch for 'drivable from Boston', but HCC has Hilton Head and PE Premiere has Kiawah.

With 3 condos in NYC in Premiere, I'm _guessing_ that availability in NYC is better with PE.  While the PE unit at 1600 B-Way is a studio, it is only 68 sq ft smaller than the HCC 1 bdrm property at 1600 B-way.  Then there is the 1 bdrm unit at the Link (http://www.thelinknyc.com/), plus my favorite, the 1 bedroom unit at the Trump Tower, complete with all hotel services.  In addition, you can use reciprocity and book either of the 2 Platinum properties (a larger 1 bedroom at Trump Tower with a Central Park view) or a 2 bdrm, 1331 sq ft at The Link.  And to really splurge, you can use your reciprocity to stay at the Pinnacle unit, a 2 bdrm/2.5 bath Penthouse at 1600 B-Way.  Lastly, it's important to note that with PE you can book any number of days in NYC (or any other destination), arriving and departing on any day of the week, and book as far in advance as you want.

Washington DC is also on the 'very soon' list for PE Premiere...



> I'm probably over analyzing, but who do you think has the better properties in the destinatioins I am most likely to visit next year - HCC or PE (Premier)?
> 
> 1. Ski properties in Colorado or Utah?
> 
> ...



So, as I see it:

1.  Definately HCC
2.  Probably PE
3.  Probably PE
4.  Definately PE

Of course, PE is more expensive.

As others have said, it all depends on your planned usage (Ski vs. City vs. Beach; 7 night intervals vs. short breaks, how far in advance you like to book, which holidays you are likely to use).  That's why I think the two go so well together as a combination!


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks for the summaries!

I think what I really need to do is start my own destination club with the properties I really want to go to. 

In New England I would put a condo on the slopes of Stowe or Smugglers, a home in New Seabury on Cape Cod, a place overlooking the harbor in Newport, and a townhouse in Boston's back bay.

I would skip NYC because I travel there a lot on business and turn it into weekends.  I would have a huge house in the Outer Banks for family reunions.

I would put a golf property at Kiawah Island and the Naples area of Florida.  I would aslo have a place in Key West for long weekends.

I would put a ski condo in Deer Valley or Aspen.

I would later round out the portfolio with properties in Maui, Cabo and Tuscany.

Anyone wanna join my new DC?


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## LTTravel (Sep 4, 2007)

GOLFNBEACH said:


> Thanks for the summaries!
> 
> I think what I really need to do is start my own destination club with the properties I really want to go to.
> 
> ...



You're talking $2-$3 million properties. You are not going to get a Golf Property in Kiawah or a nice home in Naples or a home overlooking the harbor in Newport or a town house in Back bay or a ski condo in Deer Valley or Aspen for less. You can get the home at Stowe, an Outer Banks for $1-$2 million, but still not at $800,000.

Signanture Destinations started as a regional DC in Seattle and then was expanding and planned on several local DC's within driving distance of major cities. It did not do well and was taken over by Portofino.


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> 1. HCC is the winner here by far, They started as a Colorado Ski DC and are now international. Have a large selection of Ski Resorts, but remember, many of their members are from Colorado and these go quickly. There two best ski destinations: Beaver Creek Village Hall (Probably worth over $2 million, but a leased property) and Breckenridge Lodge (4500 square foot) go very quickly.


While it's true that Beaver and Breck go quickly, the other HCC ski resorts in Colorado tend to have great availability due to the number of properties.  I usually book these Colorado ski properties with my shortest lead-time reservations.  Last year I booked Aspen/Snowmass and the "Lodge" in Breck within 60 days.  My reservation planning is to book a cheap ticket to Denver during the weeks I want to go and wait to book the property later.  HCC has 10 ski properties within driving distance of Denver if you include Aspen/Snowmass and Steamboat.


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> HCC also has 3 ski-in/ski-out townhomes >
> Beaver Creek 3BR
> Keystone 4BR
> Telluride 3BR



HCC actually has 7 ski-in/ski-out properties:
Beaver Creek
Arrowhead (Beaver)
Copper Mountain
Aspen/Snowmass
Keystone
Telluride
Deer Valley


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

*High Country Club Golf - Hilton Head Island*

Don't forget about the High Country Club Hilton Head Island home for golf!

The HCC Hilton Head property is located on the fairway of what used to be the Sea Pines Sea Marsh golf course. It has undergone a major, multi-million reconstruction and design change and is now the Sea Pines Heron Point course.  The course was designed by legendary course architect Pete Dye, Heron Point is nothing short of a modern masterpiece.

Availability is great, especially during "shoulder" season, and those of us on the East Coast can drive to it.  Looks like I'll be using my "last minute" reservations to spend several weeks here!


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## saluki (Sep 5, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Don't forget about the High Country Club Hilton Head Island home for golf!



Excitedly looking forward to your next stellar "travelguy review"!


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 5, 2007)

as i said, i was referring to the townhomes, which are TRULY ski-in/ski-out, not "ski-in/ski-out" of a resort/condo building.


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## travelguy (Sep 5, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> as i said, i was referring to the townhomes, which are TRULY ski-in/ski-out, not "ski-in/ski-out" of a resort/condo building.



The term "ski-in/ski-out" is sometimes stretched a bit.  OK, it's always stretched allot!

My definition of "ski-in/ski-out":
If I can throw a ski boot from the property and hit a skier on snow who is locked in their bindings, then it's ski-in/ski-out.  Otherwise it's not close enough for "ski-in/ski-out".


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 5, 2007)

if you can put on skis in your home, thats fine for me. slopeside single family homes are best sure, but townhomes that you can ski out of would work for me. (clearly not the case with resorts/condos, unless you have a ground floor walkout i guess)


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 5, 2007)

travelguy said:


> My definition of "ski-in/ski-out":
> If I can throw a ski boot from the property and hit a skier on snow who is locked in their bindings, then it's ski-in/ski-out.  Otherwise it's not close enough for "ski-in/ski-out".



I like that term, but it is more realistic to use something like under a 100 yard walk as some hotels like Beaver Run in Breck have very long hallways.

The HCC Deer Valley property does not fit your definition as it is about 100 feet from the front driveway entrance to the slope.....unless you have a strong arm or a very light boot.


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## LTTravel (Sep 5, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I like that term, but it is more realistic to use something like under a 100 yard walk as some hotels like Beaver Run in Breck have very long hallways.
> 
> The HCC Deer Valley property does not fit your definition as it is about 100 feet from the front driveway entrance to the slope.....unless you have a strong arm or a very light boot.



The Deer Valley property is definately not ski in/ski out and I think that the walk is at least 100 yards if not more. But still better than having to drive or take a bus to the slopes.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 5, 2007)

Here is a map of Deer Valley and it shows Black Bear Lodge is about 100 feet from Stein Erickson Lodge and about 100 yards from the snow and perhaps 200 yerds to get on a lift.

Remember "true" ski-in/out at Deer Valley is extremely expensive and rare.

http://www.deervalley.com/files/SilverLakeVillage_printable.pdf


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## LTTravel (Sep 5, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Here is a map of Deer Valley and it shows Black Bear Lodge is about 100 feet from Stein Erickson Lodge and about 100 yards from the snow and perhaps 200 yerds to get on a lift.
> 
> Remember "true" ski-in/out at Deer Valley is extremely expensive and rare.
> 
> http://www.deervalley.com/files/SilverLakeVillage_printable.pdf



The INN at Silver Lake is ski in ski out, right at the base of the lift. and some of (but not all) of the Ironwood Houses are ski in ski out. Some of them you have to walk around a little bit. Black Diamond Lodge is also true ski in ski out. There are a few developments up on the hill that are also ski in ski out. The new Ritz, I think, will also be ski in ski out. I think the new Grand Lodge is also ski in ski out. These all go from $2-$4 million.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 5, 2007)

LTTravel said:


> The INN at Silver Lake is ski in ski out, right at the base of the lift. and some of (but not all) of the Ironwood Houses are ski in ski out. Some of them you have to walk around a little bit. Black Diamond Lodge is also true ski in ski out. There are a few developments up on the hill that are also ski in ski out. The new Ritz, I think, will also be ski in ski out. I think the new Grand Lodge is also ski in ski out. These all go from $2-$4 million.



All these prpoerties rent for $1500 or more per night.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Sep 6, 2007)

What HCC and PE properties offer oceanview.  Oceanview is VERY important to us when we travel.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 6, 2007)

PE Punta Mita stands out there.

HCC has 5 beachfront condos.


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## vineyarder (Sep 6, 2007)

> What HCC and PE properties offer oceanview. Oceanview is VERY important to us when we travel.



I _believe_ that all of the HCC 'beach' properties are oceanview except Hilton Head, Rosemary Beach, La Costa, and the 2 Hawaii properties...

Similarly, I _believe_ that all of the PE Premiere 'beach' properties are oceanview except Kiawah, Watercolor, La Costa, and the 2 Hawaii properties...

A dead heat on that issue; more reason to join both!


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## travelguy (Sep 6, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Posted by travelguy: My definition of "ski-in/ski-out":
> If I can throw a ski boot from the property and hit a skier on snow who is locked in their bindings, then it's ski-in/ski-out. Otherwise it's not close enough for "ski-in/ski-out".
> 
> I like that term, but it is more realistic to use something like under a 100 yard walk as some hotels like Beaver Run in Breck have very long hallways.
> ...



I was a semi-accomplished discus thrower and I use a small child's boot so I can throw it pretty far ....


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## travelguy (Sep 6, 2007)

vineyarder said:


> I _believe_ that all of the HCC 'beach' properties are oceanview except Hilton Head, Rosemary Beach, La Costa, and the 2 Hawaii properties...



The HCC Hilton Head and La Costa properties are really GOLF properties that happen to be close to the beach.  The La Costa property is located at La Costa Resort & Spa, site of the PGA World Golf Championships - Accenture Match Play Championship.  I'd bet that HCC intends to double back and purchase a beach condo on Hilton Head to compliment the new golf property.


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## vineyarder (Sep 6, 2007)

> The HCC Hilton Head and La Costa properties are really GOLF properties that happen to be close to the beach. The La Costa property is located at La Costa Resort & Spa, site of the PGA World Golf Championships - Accenture Match Play Championship.



I agree; same with the PE Kiawah & La Costa properties, but just mentioned them for completeness...


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## Tedpilot (Sep 7, 2007)

I am heading off to La Quinta next month and was reading up on the place HCC has there.  Interesting note is that HCC does not have any member priveldges for the course that the house is on...as in I can't play it even if I wanted to.  I find that odd.

I also wanted to chime in on ocean/water view earlier in the post.  I consider a ocean-view entirely different than I do ocean-front.  As a comparison, Playa is ocean/beach-front no doubt whereas Cabo is ocean-view.  In either case, if it is a beach that adjoins the ocean that is much better.  I had stayed in a villa in St Lucia that was ocean-front, and on a cliff.  Had to drive to the nearest beach.

Speaking of which, what do you all think of HCC getting a property in St Lucia?  Beautiful island, very remote, nice people, and very destitute overall.  I never felt very comfortable there on that island.  Ride to the Villa was very long from the airport on the south end and that was only 1/2 way up the island near Castries.  If HCC buys there I sure hope they do it right.


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## saluki (Sep 7, 2007)

Tedpilot said:


> I am heading off to La Quinta next month and was reading up on the place HCC has there.  Interesting note is that HCC does not have any member priveldges for the course that the house is on...as in I can't play it even if I wanted to.  I find that odd.



That property is at PGA West, right? I know the PGA West set-up has a few different courses, but I have never been there. I did not know that any of them were private. I just tried going to their site but it seems to be down at the moment - www.pgawest.com


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## LTTravel (Sep 7, 2007)

Tedpilot said:


> Speaking of which, what do you all think of HCC getting a property in St Lucia?  Beautiful island, very remote, nice people, and very destitute overall.  I never felt very comfortable there on that island.  Ride to the Villa was very long from the airport on the south end and that was only 1/2 way up the island near Castries.  If HCC buys there I sure hope they do it right.



I think that they are looking at the new Westin development in St. Lucia. I personally prefer and island which is more established, has more activities and has more restaurants. There is nothing I hate more than paying double New York prices for restaurants where the food isn't half as good, which happens at many Carribean resorts when the "got you" there. But the new development looks good. I think that the Condos are going from $650,000 to $2 million. I would much rather have a condo on a resort in an area like St. Lucia than a private home.


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## Tedpilot (Sep 7, 2007)

Saluki - Yes, PGA West.  You can see the info regarding the course on HCC's member's site.  There are plenty of places to play, just found it odd the course we're staying at we can't play.  Maybe next time I will pick up a round or two at another course.  This time I am bringing my toys out to go riding in the desert so no time to play golf anyway.


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## saluki (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, at least you can "critique players on the Tom Weiskopf private golf course as they wind their way past your patio".

Looks like a great house, though. I would be hard-pressed to not wander out with a club or two on the hole by the house's pool at the end of the day.


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## Tedpilot (Sep 7, 2007)

LTTravel - OK, I found what I think is the right site for St Lucia: http://www.leparadisstlucia.com/  This will be a nice resort but it is far and away from any significant development on the island so you will be somewhat confined to the resort.  Honestly, there is not much of anything on that side of teh island at all.  From the location to Castries is about 1 hour driving, Hewanorra airport is about 30 minutes and where one would expect to fly into.  Most of the good restaurants are on the north end of the island (near Gros Inlet) and that is where most of the tourist activities are as well.  The Pitons and drive-through volcano which are a major attractions are near Soufriere.  The best bays and beaches are also on the west side IMHO.  In any case it is a beautiful island and I think most people will be pleased with that aspect.  For a future note, best airfares on First Class were through Air Jamaica (layover in Jamaica).  We paid less for these tickets out of Philly at the time than any major US carrier charged for coach...go figure.  I also think Air Jamaica has connecting service though RDU & ATL as well.


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## LTTravel (Sep 8, 2007)

Tedpilot,

I agree, I would rather have a beach destination where there is a little more to do, with a few more restaurant choices, etc. Though I have never been, I would look into Aruba, which friends say have nice beaches, many restaurants, casinos, etc. However, everyone has different tastes. Some like the quiet destinations. If that what HCC desides on that is fine. I just don't like getting stuck in an isolated resort paying $5 for a can of soda and $60 for a rubbery steak when they have no competition, which is the case in many of these isolated resorts. You'll be paying $1200-$1750 for the week for your stay at the HCC destination (depending on your membership level and when you joined) and three times that for the food for you and your family.


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## Tedpilot (Sep 9, 2007)

LTTravel - That is right.  We'll pay an arm and a leg for food inside a resort like that which is fine if the food is good, but I agree with the generalization that it's usually not.  BTW, we joined HCC in the beginning and have a group membership so we got in cheap ($30k).  Risky at the time no doubt, but looks like we got lucky with the growth and have had some wonderful trips thus far.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 20, 2007)

HCC's properties >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54953

HCC's best properties >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55184



Kagehitokiri said:


> 1 - pe premiere - 24 destinations 30 properties
> 2 - pe platinum - 20 destinations 21 properties (yacht shared with premiere) (website list + breckenridge)
> 3 - pe pinnacle - 6 destinations 6 properties
> 
> ...



PE Premiere's Punta Mita villa >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=386508&postcount=22


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## LTTravel (Sep 20, 2007)

K, 

What do you mean by "46 properties shared between two tiers" I don't think that UR and UR Elite share any properties, or am I wrong?


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 20, 2007)

"leftovers" meaning i dont know which tier has them. i could only work from info on their public site.


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