# Hyatt Pure Points Program



## Kal

Hyatt will roll out the new Pure Points Program on Feb. 21st. After that date you can no longer purchase a resort unit from Hyatt. Any purchase will be into the Points Program and be for points only.  Today's legacy system will be unchanged for current owners. Hyatt claims they will take any owner sales on ROFR.

Details for the Points Program will be announced soon, but IMHO, it will be extremely difficult to obtain a Points Program reservation at just about any legacy resort.

Obviously, the value of legacy resorts has increased.


----------



## youppi

Kal said:


> Obviously, the value of legacy resorts has increased.


May be but Hyatt can change the number of point of any legacy week if they want. If they can increase some Key West weeks then they can reduce all legacy week too. They could decide that resale week received 0 points like Vistana voluntary resorts and the legacy week value would drop to almost 0. 
They could also drop the number of point of all legacy week (skim them like Marriott's) to force week owners to join the pure point program to recover their initial number of point.


----------



## taffy19

Thanks for posting that.  Our salesman wasn't allowed to tell us anything nor anyone else at the Hyatt.


----------



## Cropman

Kal, thanks for posting that. Informative as always.  I'm still new to Hyatt, so can someone please tell me what a legacy resort is?  Also, couldn't this possibly devalue an owners unit on the resale market?  If Hyatt is going to buy the weeks, why go thru all the trouble of trying to buy resale when Hyatt will just end up with it?  Finally, as a current Hyatt owner, what is the advantages of the new program for current weeks owners?  We already can trade within Hyatt and Interval.  I should really quit writing now as I have a ton of questions, but let's start the ball rolling with these.  Thanks guys!

JC


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

My fear is that this may make it more difficult to trade into other Hyatts as they can oversell points.


----------



## Kal

The legacy resorts are every HRC resort in the system as of today.

The value to current owners is that anyone wanting to own a resort unit/week can ONLY get that thru the resale market.  There will be a break point where Hyatt will not take it on ROFR. If the price exceeds Hyatt's break point they wont take it.  A previous resale price of say $10K would not likely get past ROFR.  However, a resale price of maybe $25K would get by.  So it's the goal of finding that sweet spot.  Having said that, there are various way to structure the sales offer to make it a win-win at a good price.

I see few if any advantages in the new program to current owners.  For me NADA.


----------



## Kal

Tucson traveler said:


> My fear is that this may make it more difficult to trade into other Hyatts as they can oversell points.


There is NO connection between the Legacy program and the Pure Points Program


----------



## Kal

iconnections said:


> Thanks for posting that.  Our salesman wasn't allowed to tell us anything nor anyone else at the Hyatt.


It was an interesting session.  Hyatt couldn't wait to give me my reward and get me out of there. 

It was a sporting event where I love twisting their tails.


----------



## alexadeparis

I think that Hyatt will cherry pick the units that they want back, which will most likely be diamond and platinum weeks. Gold they may take some, but I think the silver and bronze will not be ROFR'd. That way they can resell as pure points for a higher $$ than the resale. For example if they buy back a 2000 or 2200 point unit for $15k and resell the points at $50 a point (or whatever the price is, just an example here) they are making $42 bucks a point back AND they are not tying up that fixed platinum week any more - in theory leaving them open for all users (both legacy and pure points). That is essentially exactly what both Wyndham and Vistana have done.


----------



## bizaro86

If this is true, it seems to me that the pure points trust is likely to have lots of Maui inventory, since they are not sold out there yet.


----------



## Kal

alexadeparis said:


> ...AND they are not tying up that fixed platinum week any more - in theory leaving them open for all users (both legacy and pure points).


If Hyatt takes the unit it will be in the Points Program, not in the Legacy Program.  It has to be one or the other but not both.


----------



## Kal

bizaro86 said:


> If this is true, it seems to me that the pure points trust is likely to have lots of Maui inventory, since they are not sold out there yet.


Good observation as that would be a great hook to get buy in into the Points Program.


----------



## heathpack

Interesting.  We head up to Carmel on Sunday.  I may have to attend the presentation, to hear what they have to say.


----------



## wilma

I doubt they will tell you anything truthful until the official rollout on the 21st.


----------



## alexadeparis

Kal said:


> If Hyatt takes the unit it will be in the Points Program, not in the Legacy Program.  It has to be one or the other but not both.



Just wondering what that structure would actually look like. I believe that some of the other systems have exclusivity for a time with the "pure points" and then after a certain dibs period, any "points" can be used to book remaining available inventory. Would that be a possibility with Hyatt?


----------



## heathpack

alexadeparis said:


> Just wondering what that structure would actually look like. I believe that some of the other systems have exclusivity for a time with the "pure points" and then after a certain dibs period, any "points" can be used to book remaining available inventory. Would that be a possibility with Hyatt?



My understanding is that Hyatt can only let pure points owners use inventory that is owned by the Hyatt system.  Since the current structure involved weeks that are owned by private individuals with a points overlay, Hyatt Pure Points (HPP) cannot access weeks that are in the current legacy weeks system.  This is why they are saying they will ROFR everything, they'll be promising new HPP owners access to inventory they don't have.

This is different than say Disney Vacation Club, which has been pure points all along, so everyone has always had access to the same inventory (although honestly DVC is really just pure points for the resort you own, not the entire DVC system).

The distinction being that Hyatt can't for example give legacy weeks owners access to legacy weeks inventory starting 12 months out say and then pure points owners access starting at 6 months.  Pure points owners can't access that inventory ever, unless Hyatt is the owner of that week.  I think.


----------



## Kal

The sales guy stresses all the great things in the HPP.  Including all kinds of Hyatt Hotels, cruises, tours, Vistana resorts, & Starwood resorts.  The only thing mentioned in passing was HRC resorts by ROFR and available Hyatt inventory.

The new building at Coconut and Maui developer inventory will be interesting.  In order for that to be in the HPP system is if the DEVELOPER lets it go or the Trust buys it from the developer.  Remember, Hyatt is not the developer.


----------



## Kal

For the next person to attend an "owners update", ask the question:

"What if not a single HRC owner gives up rights to their unit/week to join the HPP?"


----------



## lizap

My guess is they will offer current Hyatt owners an opportunity to buy into the points system, similar to what Marriott did.  It is in their best interest to do this, and I think they will. Someone mentioned earlier that Hyatt owners may have access to Vistana resorts; that would sweeten the deal..


----------



## vacationtime1

lizap said:


> My guess is they will offer current Hyatt owners an opportunity to buy into the points system, similar to what Marriott did.  It is in their best interest to do this, and I think they will. Someone mentioned earlier that Hyatt owners may have access to Vistana resorts; that would sweeten the deal..



All of this sounds eerily similar to the Marriott points program.  I suppose we shall see on the 21st.

I'm very interested in this Vistana rumor.  If Hyatt points owners will have access to Vistana units, that would be good for me as a Vistana owner, because Hyatt will have to incentivize me to relinquish use of my units if they want access to them.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

It was hinted at one point in presentations that it was certain Vistana resorts, not all of them. Supposedly there were 7-10 new places coming available and a handful were from Vistana. We were told we would not have access to them unless we converted. It will be interesting to see what unfolds.


----------



## planzfortomorrow

Thanks for all this information.  I'm new to Hyatt, and bought the week I wanted, so I'm not interested in converting to points, but I might need to trade for a different week every so often.  I think this will make trading in the system more & more difficult if lots of people convert to points.  I can see how if you were new to the system that points would be what you'd want to buy vs. a set week.  I can also see if they sell points, and they decide to change seasons/points required, they can do that at any time.  So if 1800 used to get you the time you wanted, it might change to 2200, based on supply and demand.


----------



## Kal

Beck02 said:


> Thanks for all this information.  I'm new to Hyatt, and bought the week I wanted, so I'm not interested in converting to points, but I might need to trade for a different week every so often.  I think this will make trading in the system more & more difficult if lots of people convert to points.  I can see how if you were new to the system that points would be what you'd want to buy vs. a set week.  I can also see if they sell points, and they decide to change seasons/points required, they can do that at any time.  So if 1800 used to get you the time you wanted, it might change to 2200, based on supply and demand.


You seem to be inter mixing the Points Program and the HRC Program.  They are totally independent of each other and do not cross over.  The PP program points do not interchange with the HRC points.  Unfortunately IMHO you can no longer buy another HRC week to supplement your existing HRC points total.

My opinion is that the trading will not likely change, but you will have to live with the points you now own.


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan

Kal said:


> Hyatt will roll out the new Pure Points Program on Feb. 21st. After that date you can no longer purchase a resort unit from Hyatt. Any purchase will be into the Points Program and be for points only.  Today's legacy system will be unchanged for current owners. Hyatt claims they will take any owner sales on ROFR.
> 
> Details for the Points Program will be announced soon, but IMHO, it will be extremely difficult to obtain a Points Program reservation at just about any legacy resort.
> 
> Obviously, the value of legacy resorts has increased.


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan

What / who is your source? Remember 90+ percent of what comes out of the mouth of sales people at time share presentations is FUD.


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan

Kal said:


> You seem to be inter mixing the Points Program and the HRC Program.  They are totally independent of each other and do not cross over.  The PP program points do not interchange with the HRC points.  Unfortunately IMHO you can no longer buy another HRC week to supplement your existing HRC points total.
> 
> My opinion is that the trading will not likely change, but you will have to live with the points you now own.



I think the poster was referring to the situation of "trading" the deeded week in to Hyatt for a small upgrade fee to join the PPP. Where Hyatt would gain ownership of the old deeded week and enroll it into the trust program.


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan

Kal said:


> The sales guy stresses all the great things in the HPP.  Including all kinds of Hyatt Hotels, cruises, tours, Vistana resorts, & Starwood resorts.  The only thing mentioned in passing was HRC resorts by ROFR and available Hyatt inventory.
> 
> The new building at Coconut and Maui developer inventory will be interesting.  In order for that to be in the HPP system is if the DEVELOPER lets it go or the Trust buys it from the developer.  Remember, Hyatt is not the developer.


They might include some of the Hawaii units but I wouldn't expect many based on what there mfs are. Someone posted a while ago about an earnings call and it mentioned somewhere that Hawaii was going to be kept being sold to protect the hrpp.


----------



## lizap

This is what I think they will do, ala Marriott.  Not that you can trust what the phone reps say, but when I was speaking to one earlier this week (about something else), they led me to believe there would be a plan to let existing HRC owners buy into the new system (should they desire to do so).




scsu_hockey_fan said:


> I think the poster was referring to the situation of "trading" the deeded week in to Hyatt for a small upgrade fee to join the PPP. Where Hyatt would gain ownership of the old deeded week and enroll it into the trust program.


----------



## Cropman

lizap said:


> This is what I think they will do, ala Marriott.  Not that you can trust what the phone reps say, but when I was speaking to one earlier this week (about something else), they led me to believe there would be a plan to let existing HRC owners buy into the new system (should they desire to do so).



I'm POSITIVE they will love to have you give up your weeks, especially high point, highly desirable weeks, and pay them for the privilege of giving them your highly desired week.  I'm not sure who is the better salesman, the guy who came up with the conversion idea, or the actual salesman who sells it to the unit holder.

JC


----------



## Kal

I baited the timeshare huckster that "I heard the conversion fee would be about $10K".  He said he had heard the same thing.  Knowing that they all had been fully trained on the PPP the prior week, there's probably something to it.


----------



## Kal

So here's the game - You give the Trust your deed and $10K and you get to pick something from the grab bag where there is little or no availability of HRC resorts.  Whata Deal!!!


----------



## SmithOp

I've traded my Vistana into Hyatt in Interval, I wonder how this HPP will affect Interval inventory.  I've picked up Hyatt weeks with AC that were coded as Hyatt owned deposits, I'm thinking these will go into HPP now and owner II deposits will be the only ones available.  I could be wrong because I took a presentation and the salesman said they use the Hyatt deposits to get fresh meat in the door for a presentation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Kal

SmithOp said:


> I've traded my Vistana into Hyatt in Interval, I wonder how this HPP will affect Interval inventory.  I've picked up Hyatt weeks with AC that were coded as Hyatt owned deposits, I'm thinking these will go into HPP now and owner II deposits will be the only ones available.  I could be wrong because I took a presentation and the salesman said they use the Hyatt deposits to get fresh meat in the door for a presentation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The system should continue to work as in the past.  HRC owners can still "deposit their unit" into Interval and in doing so Hyatt weeks should still be available to Interval members.  But who knows if the HPP Trust will grab those weeks for their own use.


----------



## bb70

I am about to close on a resale, and starting to get nervous.  Already passed ROFR and paid about 85 cents per point on a 1400 point week so I was feeling pretty good.  It was a silver seek at coconut point, but we liked the week and the resort so all was good.  I knew pure points was likely coming and I knew that new development at coconut point was discussed.  Just didn't expect it to happen so fast.

Now I am wondering what the week will be worth, and worried that the charming resort we fell in love with is going to change dramatically and soon.

Anyone able to talk me off the ledge?


----------



## Cropman

I really don't think it's going to affect you at all. They can't take your deeded week away from you so you will be able to go back to your resort in your unit in your week. I'm in the same boat. I bought a week at Sunset Harbor that we want to use every year. I didn't plan on trading it, just using it. I think the new system is going to really have an effect on people that trade within the system, not the people that want to use their unit. Enjoy your purchase!!  No worries!!


----------



## Kal

Anyone who has gotten thru ROFR is in an excellent position.  The name of the game going forward is how to get thru ROFR since the only way to buy a unit/week is through private resale.  I have already talked to a number of people while I am now here at Sunset Harbor and we have come up with interesting ways to make it work.


----------



## bizaro86

Based on the conference call, I think it will be like the Sheraton flex trust. Essentially, flex owners get "home resort" privileges at all the inventory in the trust. So in Hyatt's case, they'll have access to Maui and anything new, plus whatever ROFR they take. Then at a certain point (probably somehow worked in with the CUP period) it works just like the rest of the system. Flex owners can reserve other Vistana property at 8 months, and other owners can reserve flex property at 8 months. I would expect Hyatt pure points to be the same, as they will want to pitch availability at all of the Hyatt Resorts.

It makes sense for them to put a few new Vistana units in, as that would make upgrades a way easier sell. (Even Orlando would probably be useful, and would soak up some Orlando inventory. I wonder if that is why they are building the new phase at Vistana Villages...)

The biggest thing I'm curious about is Maui. If they put it in the pure points trust, they can sell "Maui" over and over again. But they'll have to stop selling true Maui deeds now. I'm curious whether they'll take the short term pain for long term benefit. Vistana didn't do that with Nanea (their Maui resort) which was a mistake, imo.


----------



## Kal

Maui will be a key piece of it all.  The developer will get paid no matter what.  Hyatt will get paid for naming and resort management.  The goal should have a component to protect options for the HRPP owners, the PPP will need to have some of those units available.

On Monday I will be receiving the current sales status...the percent of the resort which is unsold.  That should shed some light on the Maui involvement.


----------



## Cropman

bb70 said:


> I am about to close on a resale, and starting to get nervous.  *Already passed ROFR and paid about 85 cents per point on a 1400 point week so I was feeling pretty good*.  It was a silver seek at coconut point, but we liked the week and the resort so all was good.  I knew pure points was likely coming and I knew that new development at coconut point was discussed.  Just didn't expect it to happen so fast.
> 
> Now I am wondering what the week will be worth, and worried that the charming resort we fell in love with is going to change dramatically and soon.
> 
> Anyone able to talk me off the ledge?



So, you haven't closed, but passed ROFR.  I'm guessing ROFR has been after January 1.  Just speculating here, but does that tell us Hyatt is not taking lower valued weeks and is just going to concentrate on the upper tier weeks?   1400 points at 0.85 would mean this sold for $1200.  I have to believe in the new program, points are going for way more than $2 per.  They could have made a lot of money by ROFR this deal, but they passed. I would bet they only ROFR diamond and platinum, maybe gold also.  They can then show they have some prime inventory you can trade into for new TPP buyers.  I would like to see the line item in their 2017 budget for the amount they have earmarked for acquiring units.


----------



## bdh

Cropman said:


> Just speculating here, but does that tell us Hyatt is not taking lower valued weeks and is just going to concentrate on the upper tier weeks?   1400 points at 0.85 would mean this sold for $1200.
> 
> I would bet they only ROFR diamond and platinum, maybe gold also.  They can then show they have some prime inventory you can trade into for new TPP buyers.  I would like to see the line item in their 2017 budget for the amount they have earmarked for acquiring units.



There is not a one to one correlation of points to dollars - the value of a week/unit varies by property as well as unit.  A 1400 pt week could be $3500 at one location and $10000 at another.

The ROFR has not been concentrated on high demand/point weeks - they will take any week at any property if the price is right.


----------



## Cropman

bdh said:


> There is not a one to one correlation of points to dollars - the value of a week/unit varies by property as well as unit.  A 1400 pt week could be $3500 at one location and $10000 at another.
> 
> The ROFR has not been concentrated on high demand/point weeks - they will take any week at any property if the price is right.



I agree, it's not correlation, however, IMHO, not only does Hyatt need prime weeks, they need points.  The TPP is going to sell points.  I don't think it will be like DVC where points are sold for different dollar amounts, depending upon your home resort.  I think they will pure points that you can use where you can find openings.  Those 1400 points for that resort for that week may be priced correctly for the legacy program.  I just think they are going to sell points for a flat rate and way more than a few bucks per point.  I would guess $12 minimum.  Under my scenario Hyatt left a lot of money on the table and are going to concentrate on the higher demand weeks.  For instance if Hyatt owns unit weeks that equal 1,000,000 points, they can't sell 2,000,000 to the public unless they acquire more units.  So, Hyatt by passing on this one, either still has a ton of inventory to move or has a budget that is limited to having to go after higher demand weeks.  Maybe both.  It would be really interesting to hear what Hyatt exercises ROFR on.


----------



## tahoeJoe

lizap said:


> My guess is they will offer current Hyatt owners an opportunity to buy into the points system, similar to what Marriott did.  \QUOTE]
> .



What advantage is there to legacy owners to "buy in" into HPP if the current points program is unchanged? Marriott did not have an existing points program so there were advantages for some Marriott owners to buy in. Excluding Maui, Hyatt has not built any NEW, real inventory in a decade. This leads me to believe that initially most availability will be in San Antonio and Bonita Springs IF they restart construction. Maui is a maybe if the DEVELOPER, (who is NOT Hyatt or Interval) decides Hyatt can use their unsold inventory in HPP.


----------



## bdbrecheen

I just found this site today and my eyes are not believing some of what I'm seeing. I've been an owner with Hyatt since 2004. I have actually been actively looking to add more points by purchasing another unit from a private party. Since we are already at 13 February,  and the comments I'm reading on here state Hyatt is going to change things as of February 21, my question is how come they have not  notified the Hyatt owners? In addition, we bought into the point system so that we could exchange it at other Hyatt resorts.  We never stay at our deeded week, we never intended to. So, may I ask a couple of questions of you who seem to have a great deal of knowledge. Would you advise me buying another Hyatt unit now? Are they completely doing away with the point system as it currently works now?  Can they legally do that with old owners?   What is the best way to handle the situation?  Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with those of us who are not near as savvy.


----------



## bdh

bdbrecheen said:


> I just found this site today and my eyes are not believing some of what I'm seeing. I've been an owner with Hyatt since 2004. I have actually been actively looking to add more points by purchasing another unit from a private party. Since we are already at 13 February,  and the comments I'm reading on here state Hyatt is going to change things as of February 21, my question is how come they have not  notified the Hyatt owners? In addition, we bought into the point system so that we could exchange it at other Hyatt resorts.  We never stay at our deeded week, we never intended to. So, may I ask a couple of questions of you who seem to have a great deal of knowledge. Would you advise me buying another Hyatt unit now? Are they completely doing away with the point system as it currently works now?  Can they legally do that with old owners?   What is the best way to handle the situation?  Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with those of us who are not near as savvy.



While the new Pure Points Program (PPP) doesn't roll out until 2/21/17, it is expected to be different system than the current HRC point system used for internal Hyatt exchanges and for external Interval International.  No reason for you to be alarmed with what you own.

While you won't be able to buy HRC deeded weeks from Hyatt in the near future, there are lots of current HRC deeded week owners that you can buy from in years to come.


----------



## theo

scsu_hockey_fan said:


> What / who is your source? Remember 90+ percent of what comes out of the mouth of sales people at time share presentations is FUD.



Can't speak for Kal, but when it comes to Hyatt he da man, IMnsHO. He wouldn't be taking any sales weasel drivel to the bank.


----------



## Kal

Cropman said:


> I agree, it's not correlation, however, IMHO, not only does Hyatt need prime weeks, they need points.  The TPP is going to sell points.  I don't think it will be like DVC where points are sold for different dollar amounts, depending upon your home resort.  I think they will pure points that you can use where you can find openings.  Those 1400 points for that resort for that week may be priced correctly for the legacy program.  I just think they are going to sell points for a flat rate and way more than a few bucks per point.  I would guess $12 minimum.  Under my scenario Hyatt left a lot of money on the table and are going to concentrate on the higher demand weeks.  For instance if Hyatt owns unit weeks that equal 1,000,000 points, they can't sell 2,000,000 to the public unless they acquire more units.  So, Hyatt by passing on this one, either still has a ton of inventory to move or has a budget that is limited to having to go after higher demand weeks.  Maybe both.  It would be really interesting to hear what Hyatt exercises ROFR on.


Remember, the new PPP will include resorts other than Hyatt, Hyatt Hotels, Cruises, tours and what ever else they can peddle for points.  So don't limit your numbers to simply the HRC $ to points arithmetic.  It will be interesting to see the PPP membership fee and their schedule for using those points (expiration dates, tier levels and maintenance fees).


----------



## alexadeparis

Kal said:


> You seem to be inter mixing the Points Program and the HRC Program.  They are totally independent of each other and do not cross over.  The PP program points do not interchange with the HRC points.  Unfortunately IMHO you can no longer buy another HRC week to supplement your existing HRC points total.
> 
> My opinion is that the trading will not likely change, but you will have to live with the points you now own.



Kal, can you elaborate why you think that combining weeks for points will no longer be effective? I know you know a TON about Hyatt, so I would love to hear your perspective. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> Hyatt will roll out the new Pure Points Program on Feb. 21st. After that date you can no longer purchase a resort unit from Hyatt. Any purchase will be into the Points Program and be for points only.  Today's legacy system will be unchanged for current owners. Hyatt claims they will take any owner sales on ROFR.
> 
> Details for the Points Program will be announced soon, but IMHO, it will be extremely difficult to obtain a Points Program reservation at just about any legacy resort.
> 
> Obviously, the value of legacy resorts has increased.


So, would it be advantageous or not in your opinion to go through with the purchase of the timeshare I am looking at? We were basically doing it so that we would have more points to work with for booking higher value properties such as Carmel. When we first purchased, we were able to go every year. Since they changed the point structure we no longer have enough points to stay for a week there.


----------



## Sapper

Just a thought as I read through this thread.  Does the Hyatt PPP entity own or control a large quantity of Key West units?  If so, what better way to increase the number of points in the point program than to change the point value of a unit you own.  A former 1400 point unit is now a 2000 point unit.  They just increased the number of points available for sale by 30-40%.

While I agree with Kal in that this new PPP does nothing for me, I am concerned that over time (years), as people trade their unit + $ in to join the PPP and as they exercise ROFR, the available inventory for trading in the legacy system will be reduced.  Long term, this will make the legacy system less useful / valuable for people who want to trade, and will make the unit I (and others here) own less valuable overall. 

Also, some people, such as "bdbrecheen", were sold on the point system.  In the one Hyatt sales presentation I went to, the sales guy pushed the whole points system pretty hard.  Might someone be able to make a legal case that Hyatt sold a system as well as the individual unit, and that the points associated with their unit represent an interest in the system as a whole.  Further, by removing units and points from the legacy system is a breach of contract because it negatively impacts this system.  The remedy for which would be to either pay ALL legacy unit holders for the loss of value to their points / unit value, or to block the PPP from being able to utilize any points / units from the legacy system?

To be clear, I am not a lawyer, and have not been involved with timeshares for very long.  I'm just asking a question.


----------



## Kal

alexadeparis said:


> Kal, can you elaborate why you think that combining weeks for points will no longer be effective? I know you know a TON about Hyatt, so I would love to hear your perspective. Thanks in advance.


The best thing about the Hyatt legacy program is the ability to combine points from owned weeks.  The problem is that it will be difficult to buy more unit/weeks.  Overall I just have the feeling that it will be a little more difficult to make those points work in getting reservations.  Mostly because of supply and demand and the difficulty in buying more weeks.


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> So, would it be advantageous or not in your opinion to go through with the purchase of the timeshare I am looking at? We were basically doing it so that we would have more points to work with for booking higher value properties such as Carmel. When we first purchased, we were able to go every year. Since they changed the point structure we no longer have enough points to stay for a week there.


I would do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to buy a unit/week today.  There's nothing to lose.  If Hyatt takes it on ROFR so be it.  But if they don't, you're the winner.


----------



## Kal

LATE BREAKING NEWS - The PPP has been delayed again.  It was set for Feb. 21st, now it has been "comfortably delayed".  No new date was provided.  The reason included some legal issues.

Also, the unsold inventory at Maui is more than 50%.  For me, that number will have a meaningful impact on how the PPP will be marketed.


----------



## lizap

Interesting... wish they would give existing deeded owners the right to continue to use the existing program AND use the new PPP program as well.  I would be willing to pay for this since we would have access to new resorts and greater access to existing ones.




Kal said:


> LATE BREAKING NEWS - The PPP has been delayed again.  It was set for Feb. 21st, now it has been "comfortably delayed".  No new date was provided.  The reason included some legal issues.
> 
> Also, the unsold inventory at Maui is more than 50%.  For me, that number will have a meaningful impact on how the PPP will be marketed.


----------



## Creekway6

Interesting.  Any possible relationship between this potential change and the complete drying up of discounted cash-reservations on the HRC site?  Historically, I've been able to grab off-season, cash-reservation on the HRC at Wild Oak for significantly less (e.g. 25%) of what the same rooms were listed at on the Hyatt retail hotel site.  But, now, I'm seeing zero availability in any room category for the next 7 months.  As much as I love Wild Oak, there is zero chance that all those rooms are booked by owners.

As someone who can into HRC for the $1 on a lowly 1,400 point week less than 2 years ago, I can't wait until I get a sales call on an up-charge to join a "points program."  Sounds interesting, will you take $10?


----------



## bdurstta

Just went to an owners update.  Yes, new program is now projected to "roll out" July 2017.  They will  supposedly start with Florida and roll out slowly across the US and ending with California (sounds strange.)  Salesperson said they will be "adding" 9 more resorts but couldn't say "where" but alluded to maybe San Diego could be one of them. Hawaii property will NOT be part of the points program.

Salesperson said that right now they are selling timeshares for $16 a point (based on point value of your week) and that is WAY lower than anyone else.   They "assume" that per points cost will go up.

Funny, TODAY the salesperson is saying the week deeded ownership is the BEST thing to buy, but when it switches over I bet they will say the points system is the best to buy.  LOL


----------



## bdurstta

lizap said:


> Interesting... wish they would give existing deeded owners the right to continue to use the existing program AND use the new PPP program as well.  I would be willing to pay for this since we would have access to new resorts and greater access to existing ones.



Marriott did this a few years back when they started their new program.  We joined when they had a promo.  At the time I thought it was a waste, but now I a glad they did it. It is nice to have the options.


----------



## bdbrecheen

So, could someone please spell this out for those of us who are not as savvy. Does this mean that we, as owners,  will no longer be allowed to use our points to book at other properties within the Hyatt Vacation Club Program  and will only be able to use our deeded week? I am unsure how all of this will work. Thank you for your responses.


----------



## Cropman

bdbrecheen said:


> So, could someone please spell this out for those of us who are not as savvy. Does this mean that we, as owners,  will no longer be allowed to use our points to book at other properties within the Hyatt Vacation Club Program  and will only be able to use our deeded week? I am unsure how all of this will work. Thank you for your responses.



I will defer to what Kal will end up posting here but from what I can glean, the short answer to your question is no.  The Hyatt system as you now know it will essentially remain unchanged.  (I'm not even sure if they can take it away from us.)  However, there will be additional resorts, maybe cruises, and other "perks" that will be available to TPP owners that will not be available to owners that decide not to join TPP.  With that in mind, for every deeded week that joins the TPP, it will take away from your availability to trade into another resort.  For instance, you would like to trade into Sunset Harbor, week 6.  There are 40 units.  Let's say, currently half of the owners give up their week for whatever reason and the other half use their units every year.  That means 20 units are available for owners of other Hyatt resorts to trade in.  Now if 10 of those owners decide to join TPP instead of making their unit available to the rest of Hyatt, that cuts the number of units available in half or only 10 units.  Less units are available for people who don't join TPP.

This is a simplistic example only.  It will be interesting to see exactly what Hyatt entices people with in order to give up deeded weeks.  If you bought your unit to stay at your resort in your week, this won't change a thing.  If you bought planning on using your unit some of the time and trading some of the time, you will be able to do that, however, it may be more difficult to find than it already is, to find those high demand weeks.  If you bought your week to trade, it will be very interesting to see what develops.  Just my opinion, there are many here who know a lot more than me. 

JC


----------



## bdbrecheen

Cropman said:


> I will defer to what Kal will end up posting here but from what I can glean, the short answer to your question is no.  The Hyatt system as you now know it will essentially remain unchanged.  (I'm not even sure if they can take it away from us.)  However, there will be additional resorts, maybe cruises, and other "perks" that will be available to TPP owners that will not be available to owners that decide not to join TPP.  With that in mind, for every deeded week that joins the TPP, it will take away from your availability to trade into another resort.  For instance, you would like to trade into Sunset Harbor, week 6.  There are 40 units.  Let's say, currently half of the owners give up their week for whatever reason and the other half use their units every year.  That means 20 units are available for owners of other Hyatt resorts to trade in.  Now if 10 of those owners decide to join TPP instead of making their unit available to the rest of Hyatt, that cuts the number of units available in half or only 10 units.  Less units are available for people who don't join TPP.
> 
> This is a simplistic example only.  It will be interesting to see exactly what Hyatt entices people with in order to give up deeded weeks.  If you bought your unit to stay at your resort in your week, this won't change a thing.  If you bought planning on using your unit some of the time and trading some of the time, you will be able to do that, however, it may be more difficult to find than it already is, to find those high demand weeks.  If you bought your week to trade, it will be very interesting to see what develops.  Just my opinion, there are many here who know a lot more than me.
> 
> JC


Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I found your answer quite helpful.


----------



## heathpack

Funny, I just went to an owners update yesterday here in Carmel, CA.

I didn't learn too much.  My salesman was fairly confrontational with us and didn't really like that I had pretty decent knowledge of how these things work.

The gist as we got it from them:
1.  Right now they are just selling deeded weeks with the old standard points overlay.  They were pushing deeded weeks as the best thing evah.  Threatened us that we'd never be able o trade into Carmel again, because everyone here loves their week so much.
2.  Soon they will be selling only points, and a supervisor was broight in to try to sell me a week while the opportunity to buy a deed still existed.  They kept telling me that our deed would go away when the new pure points system starts.  I finally called BS on that and they admitted my deed wasn't going anywhere unless I joined the new HPP (my term, 'Hyatt Pure Points') system.  They did not say if current owners would be able to join.  They did make a distinction between developer purchases and resale purchases, so perhaps Hyatt intends to exclude resale owners from buying in to the points system.
3.  They went on and on about how Hyatt was buying everything on the open market right now by exercising ROFR.  They told me it would be impossible to buy one right now, Hyatt would just take it.  Ok, I said- then what would you buy my week 22 High Sierra week for, if I decided to use the proceeds from that to buy a Carmel week today?  Oh no, we won't buy your High Sierra week.  Why not, I asked, I thought you were buying everything?  No we won't buy your week because you purchased resale.  What?!  Makes no sense but my conclusion is that Hyatt is not actually buying everything.
4.  When they were telling me how everything was going into the new trust, and how as a consequence I'd be locked out and never be able to book again, I explained that was not mu understanding of how it would work legally- the only units they could use for trust inventory would be weeks Hyatt currently owns/buys back and new inventory they build and sell as points inventory, they agreed this was true.  No current deeded weeks would be available to HPP owners unless those weeks are enrolled by current owners.
5.  When I specfically mentioned the Feb 21 rollout date & that I knew it was delayed, they were visibly shocked that I was aware of this, asked me how I knew.  I mentioned a friend who owns in Key West told me.  Their reply was that Key West is different, the relevant California regulatory agency was holding up the process.  So it may be correct that California properties will be added later (if ever).
6. They told me that Hyatt owns lots of inventory but also that if we wanted to buy, our only options for a deeded week right now was Carmel, Sedona or Maui.  Not sure what that means. Maybe the legal hold-up on the HPP system is in these states?
7.  I did see the sheets that listed what units Hyatt owned at Carmel & had available for sale.  I would guess it was no more than 10% of available weeks.

That's all I can remember.  Any questions, fire away.


----------



## Kal

heathpack said:


> Funny, I just went to an owners update yesterday here in Carmel, CA.
> 
> I didn't learn too much.  My salesman was fairly confrontational with us and didn't really like that I had pretty decent knowledge of how these things work.
> 
> The gist as we got it from them:
> 1.  Right now they are just selling deeded weeks with the old standard points overlay.  They were pushing deeded weeks as the best thing evah.  Threatened us that we'd never be able o trade into Carmel again, because everyone here loves their week so much.
> 2.  Soon they will be selling only points, and a supervisor was broight in to try to sell me a week while the opportunity to buy a deed still existed.  They kept telling me that our deed would go away when the new pure points system starts.  I finally called BS on that and they admitted my deed wasn't going anywhere unless I joined the new HPP (my term, 'Hyatt Pure Points') system.  They did not say if current owners would be able to join.  They did make a distinction between developer purchases and resale purchases, so perhaps Hyatt intends to exclude resale owners from buying in to the points system.
> 3.  They went on and on about how Hyatt was buying everything on the open market right now by exercising ROFR.  They told me it would be impossible to buy one right now, Hyatt would just take it.  Ok, I said- then what would you buy my week 22 High Sierra week for, if I decided to use the proceeds from that to buy a Carmel week today?  Oh no, we won't buy your High Sierra week.  Why not, I asked, I thought you were buying everything?  No we won't buy your week because you purchased resale.  What?!  Makes no sense but my conclusion is that Hyatt is not actually buying everything.
> 4.  When they were telling me how everything was going into the new trust, and how as a consequence I'd be locked out and never be able to book again, I explained that was not mu understanding of how it would work legally- the only units they could use for trust inventory would be weeks Hyatt currently owns/buys back and new inventory they build and sell as points inventory, they agreed this was true.  No current deeded weeks would be available to HPP owners unless those weeks are enrolled by current owners.
> 5.  When I specfically mentioned the Feb 21 rollout date & that I knew it was delayed, they were visibly shocked that I was aware of this, asked me how I knew.  I mentioned a friend who owns in Key West told me.  Their reply was that Key West is different, the relevant California regulatory agency was holding up the process.  So it may be correct that California properties will be added later (if ever).
> 6. They told me that Hyatt owns lots of inventory but also that if we wanted to buy, our only options for a deeded week right now was Carmel, Sedona or Maui.  Not sure what that means. Maybe the legal hold-up on the HPP system is in these states?
> 7.  I did see the sheets that listed what units Hyatt owned at Carmel & had available for sale.  I would guess it was no more than 10% of available weeks.
> 
> That's all I can remember.  Any questions, fire away.


I just love it when we owners know more about what Hyatt is up to than the sales people.  I had figured Maui was a key link but never thought it would not be a participant in the HPP.  That's great for the legacy program as we will have normal access to the resort weeks rather than just a part of it.  It's interesting that "ILG wanted to protect the Maui HRPP owners" but what about all the non-Maui HRPP owners?

There was a major training program scheduled for Feb.20th, until the roll-out was postponed to a "comfortable extension".  Hmmmmm, to me "comfortable" is far from a 5 month delay.  There are obviously some serious issues going down.  Probably in the legal department.

Now let's really watch to see Hyatt's ROFR actions.

So here's a crazy "what-if"..... I sell my week to my very best friend for $30K.  Hyatt would have to sell that week for $60K (consider overhead etc) so they pass on ROFR.   Then my very best friend provides me a $15K gift with no tax consequences!  How do those numbers work out?


----------



## Kal

A friend of mine is a Carmel owner.  He gave up his week in exchange for Maui next month.


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> I just love it when we owners know more about what Hyatt is up to than the sales people.  I had figured Maui was a key link but never thought it would not be a participant in the HPP.  That's great for the legacy program as we will have normal access to the resort weeks rather than just a part of it.  It's interesting that "ILG wanted to protect the Maui HRPP owners" but what about all the non-Maui HRPP owners?
> 
> There was a major training program scheduled for Feb.20th, until the roll-out was postponed to a "comfortable extension".  Hmmmmm, to me "comfortable" is far from a 5 month delay.  There are obviously some serious issues going down.  Probably in the legal department.
> 
> Now let's really watch to see Hyatt's ROFR actions.
> 
> So here's a crazy "what-if"..... I sell my week to my very best friend for $30K.  Hyatt would have to sell that week for $60K (consider overhead etc) so they pass on ROFR.   Then my very best friend provides me a $15K gift with no tax consequences!  How do those numbers work out?


Kal~ I find your posts to be a weath of info. Thanks for the updates! I have been an owner with Hyatt for many years, but I have never been on a Timeshare forum until now. One last question. Does it matter what resort I try and buy into at this point if all I am interested in is increasing my points? I am looking at Beach House, Coconut Point and Wild Oak, which I already own at. I briefly considered Puerto Rico, but I am concerned about the vacant property next door as well as the economy down there.We love going down there as it is never crowded and it seems as though we almost have the pool or beach to ourselves. I'm not sure how that place stays open.


----------



## vacationtime1

Kal said:


> So here's a crazy "what-if"..... I sell my week to my very best friend for $30K.  Hyatt would have to sell that week for $60K (consider overhead etc) so they pass on ROFR.   Then my very best friend provides me a $15K gift with no tax consequences!  How do those numbers work out?



There _*would*_ be a tax consequence if you sold for $30K -- a capital gains tax -- unless you had paid $30K or more for the unit.  Your friend would have a (very small) gift tax on the gift to you.  And of course it is fraudulent.

I agree that Hyatt is unlikely to pay $30K.  Over on the Marriott board, the quants have figured out that Marriott usually ROFR's only if the ROFR price is 23% or less than the price for which Marriott expects to resell the resulting points.  So if they were to ROFR at $30K, it means they expect to resell the points for no less than about $130K.  Not very likely, I would say.


----------



## Kal

vacationtime1 said:


> There _*would*_ be a tax consequence if you sold for $30K -- a capital gains tax -- unless you had paid $30K or more for the unit.  Your friend would have a (very small) gift tax on the gift to you.  And of course it is fraudulent.
> 
> I agree that Hyatt is unlikely to pay $30K.  Over on the Marriott board, the quants have figured out that Marriott usually ROFR's only if the ROFR price is 23% or less than the price for which Marriott expects to resell the resulting points.  So if they were to ROFR at $30K, it means they expect to resell the points for no less than about $130K.  Not very likely, I would say.



How many times have we all been informed that a time share is NOT an investment.  Moreover you cannot write-off a loss on such a sale.  I would ask that you provide a reference in the IRS code to support that thought.  With regard to the $15K GIFT, the real number would be closer to the non-taxable limit which is something close to $14K.

Fraud??? There is no documentation whatsoever on such GIFTS.  As a matter of fact I had the concept reviewed by a Bankruptcy Judge and he said it is absolutely legal.  The recorded transaction is $30K.  Hey, if Hyatt takes it on ROFR, the seller is the big winner.


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> ...One last question. Does it matter what resort I try and buy into at this point if all I am interested in is increasing my points? I am looking at Beach House, Coconut Point and Wild Oak....


If you just want points, go for the best $/point you can find.  I would definitely test the ROFR notion and keep trying.  I would be careful about PR, but a friend is now going after a $2K PR sale.  She's got nothing to lose a lots of upside.  My bet is that Hyatt won't take it.


----------



## vacationtime1

Kal said:


> How many times have we all been informed that a time share is NOT an investment.  Moreover you cannot write-off a loss on such a sale.  I would ask that you provide a reference in the IRS code to support that thought.  With regard to the $15K GIFT, the real number would be closer to the non-taxable limit which is something close to $14K.
> 
> Fraud??? There is no documentation whatsoever on such GIFTS.  As a matter of fact I had the concept reviewed by a Bankruptcy Judge and he said it is absolutely legal.  The recorded transaction is $30K.  Hey, if Hyatt takes it on ROFR, the seller is the big winner.



Internal Revenue Code section 61(a)(3).  You are correct that we cannot write off losses on timeshares, but gains are still income.  Just like principal residences.

If you had a pre-arranged deal with someone to sell to them at $30K against their promise to "gift" back a portion of the purchase price, you would be on very, very thin ice.  The statement that you are selling to your friend for $30K would be an intentional, material misrepresentation conveyed to gain an advantage.

Yes, the gift tax would be very small, as I suggested above.


----------



## Kal

vacationtime1 said:


> Internal Revenue Code section 61(a)(3).  You are correct that we cannot write off losses on timeshares, but gains are still income.  Just like principal residences.
> 
> If you had a pre-arranged deal with someone to sell to them at $30K against their promise to "gift" back a portion of the purchase price, you would be on very, very thin ice.  The statement that you are selling to your friend for $30K would be an intentional, material misrepresentation conveyed to gain an advantage.
> 
> Yes, the gift tax would be very small, as I suggested above.


It would be fun to recapture all the costs over time to support the "investment".  With regard to the GIFT, again there would not be a shred of written documentation, unless I was a bit financially challenged.


----------



## Marathoner

I expect that Hyatt Pure Points will look similar to Marriotts.  Marriott is a large program with many timeshare owners and properties.  Marriott is also commercially oriented with a desire to get their best customers to buy more.  As a result, they struck the best balance they could develop between their legal and commercial interests.  As a result, I expect that Hyatt will land in a similar place.  All the fear mongering from Hyatt Sales can be ignored and you can study Marriott's program if you want to have insight into Hyatt's new program.  As an owner of Marriott, Hyatt, Worldmark, Vistana, and an independent resort, I believe that there is room for variety of approaches by the timeshare resorts but that variability is limited to due legal and commercial considerations.


----------



## heathpack

vacationtime1 said:


> There _*would*_ be a tax consequence if you sold for $30K -- a capital gains tax -- unless you had paid $30K or more for the unit.  Your friend would have a (very small) gift tax on the gift to you.  And of course it is fraudulent.
> 
> I agree that Hyatt is unlikely to pay $30K.  Over on the Marriott board, the quants have figured out that Marriott usually ROFR's only if the ROFR price is 23% or less than the price for which Marriott expects to resell the resulting points.  So if they were to ROFR at $30K, it means they expect to resell the points for no less than about $130K.  Not very likely, I would say.



Interesting.

They were quoting me prices for Carmel units:

2200 pt units around $40000
2000 pt units around $35000
1880 pt units around $30000
1880 EOY units around $20000

Don't quote me on those exact numbers, I didn't write it down.

So if the use the Marriott formula, they'd ROFR at
2200 pt around $9000
2000 pt around $8000
1880 pt around $7000
1880 pt EOY around $4600


----------



## BocaBoy

Posts #64 and 67 from vacationtime1 are 100% correct.  The issues he addresses are not even a gray area of the law....they are clear.  (And I am a trained lawyer, by the way, with tax experience.)  And in reference to post #65 by Kal where he said there would be no evidence of the side deal, I will just say that not getting caught is not the same thing as acting legally.  No evidence does not equal no fraud.  And even if one believed there was no fraud, the failure to report one's profit on the sale is illegal tax evasion.


----------



## Kal

BocaBoy said:


> Posts #64 and 67 from vacationtime1 are 100% correct.  The issues he addresses are not even a gray area of the law....they are clear.  (And I am a trained lawyer, by the way, with tax experience.)  And in reference to post #65 by Kal where he said there would be no evidence of the side deal, I will just say that not getting caught is not the same thing as acting legally.  No evidence does not equal no fraud.  And even if one believed there was no fraud, the failure to report one's profit on the sale is illegal tax evasion.


You need to remember my post started with "What if".  The whole concept is to create comment.  Do you really think someone would work the concept with someone on the internet?  I don't think so.  Besides it would only benefit the buyer while the seller is hanging out.

However, there are other ways to accomplish a deal which employs other means that are legal and have been successfully used in the past to avoid Hyatt's ROFR.  The biggest issue is to try to decipher Hyatt's Go-No Go ROFR decision criteria.  To date it has been a shot gun approach without much identifiable decision logic.


----------



## bdh

heathpack said:


> Interesting.
> 
> They were quoting me prices for Carmel units:
> 
> 2200 pt units around $40000
> 2000 pt units around $35000
> 1880 pt units around $30000
> 1880 EOY units around $20000
> 
> Don't quote me on those exact numbers, I didn't write it down.
> 
> So if the use the Marriott formula, they'd ROFR at
> 2200 pt around $9000
> 2000 pt around $8000
> 1880 pt around $7000
> 1880 pt EOY around $4600



Based on previous ROFR history (current and several years back), the Hyatt ROFR formula varies from property to property as well as week to week and unit to unit.  The Hyatt deeded week/unit aspect adds a couple of elements that do not exist in the Marriott product.  Its probable that a 2200 pt Pinon Pointe unit with no view getting past ROFR at $9k while its possible one with a great view could pass ROFR at $9k.  However I wouldn't expect any 2200 pt Sunset Harbor getting thru at $9k now - if the week/unit was a good view, it would take something north of $16k - a great view would be closing in on $20k IMHO.


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> You need to remember my post started with "What if".  The whole concept is to create comment.  Do you really think someone would work the concept with someone on the internet?  I don't think so.  Besides it would only benefit the buyer while the seller is hanging out.
> 
> However, there are other ways to accomplish a deal which employs other means that are legal and have been successfully used in the past to avoid Hyatt's ROFR.  The biggest issue is to try to decipher Hyatt's Go-No Go ROFR decision criteria.  To date it has been a shot gun approach without much identifiable decision logic.


Ok- I'll bite. How do I keep Hyatt from ROFR on a property I am going into escrow on Monday?


----------



## alexadeparis

bdbrecheen said:


> Ok- I'll bite. How do I keep Hyatt from ROFR on a property I am going into escrow on Monday?


Pay more, or hope it will slip through if not diamond or platinum.


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> Ok- I'll bite. How do I keep Hyatt from ROFR on a property I am going into escrow on Monday?


Too late, you have to include the deal at the get go.


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> Too late, you have to include the deal at the get go.


I'm looking for another property as well. So, Will you share your wisdom so that I can put it to use?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Just bid a little higher. Hyatt will buy back the lower bids. We had Hyatt buy back our Beach House so we bid
1,000 higher the following month for 1880 pts which are now 2200 pts so it was well worth it. Hyatt does
not buy back everything as they claim they do.. yet. They seem to go in spurts also so 1 month may buy everything 
and the next month they back off. I would keep trying.


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> I'm looking for another property as well. So, Will you share your wisdom so that I can put it to use?


DEFINITELY! while face-to-face and bending elbows.


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> DEFINITELY! while face-to-face and bending elbows.


 Now, how are we going to make that happen?


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> Now, how are we going to make that happen?


Come on down


----------



## bdbrecheen

Kal said:


> Come on down


 Well now, where would that be?


----------



## sts1732

bdh said:


> Based on previous ROFR history (current and several years back), the Hyatt ROFR formula varies from property to property as well as week to week and unit to unit.  The Hyatt deeded week/unit aspect adds a couple of elements that do not exist in the Marriott product.  Its probable that a 2200 pt Pinon Pointe unit with no view getting past ROFR at $9k while its possible one with a great view could pass ROFR at $9k.  However I wouldn't expect any 2200 pt Sunset Harbor getting thru at $9k now - if the week/unit was a good view, it would take something north of $16k - a great view would be closing in on $20k IMHO.


  As point of interest, we just received notice that we can proceed with the sale of our deeded Sunset Harbor unit 533 (faces the gulf unobstructed ) for 18,000.00. In the paper work from Hyatt it showed the value of the unit, week 27, platinum season as being just under 25,000.00. Hope this helps in setting prices to pass ROFR.


----------



## Kal

Multiple reliable sources.  Hucksters know little or nothing except sales.


----------



## Kal

sts1732 said:


> As point of interest, we just received notice that we can proceed with the sale of our deeded Sunset Harbor unit 533 (faces the gulf unobstructed ) for 18,000.00. In the paper work from Hyatt it showed the value of the unit, week 27, platinum season as being just under 25,000.00. Hope this helps in setting prices to pass ROFR.


Very interesting.  Primarily Hyatt has been saying for some time that they will take all ROFR sales.  As always, just smoke.  The $18K price is a bit of a surprise.  I have pegged a 2X multiplier which means Hyatt would have to sell your unit at $36K.  Your $18K number will help other resale purchasers of platinum units in setting their offer price.


----------



## rickandcindy23

I want to buy Hyatt as well.  $18K is more than most of the resale brokers are showing for list prices.  Do they price low and hope for ROFR to take the unit, or what?  I was looking at Fidelity resales of Hyatt today, actually.  Lots of listings, low prices, and MF's seem to be inconsistent for the same season and resort.


----------



## Kal

rickandcindy23 said:


> I want to buy Hyatt as well.  $18K is more than most of the resale brokers are showing for list prices.  Do they price low and hope for ROFR to take the unit, or what?  I was looking at Fidelity resales of Hyatt today, actually.  Lots of listings, low prices, and MF's seem to be inconsistent for the same season and resort.


I often question why the MF's are inconsistent.  Makes me wonder about the rest of the information.

If you're looking at a purchase, I would do it ASAP before the Pure Points program rolls out.  Put the pressure on Hyatt to take it by ROFR and see what they do.  It will be very difficult to purchase a weeks unit in Florida after the roll out.  As other posters have noted, there's no pattern for the ROFR decision "logic".  Just go for it!


----------



## RichardL

Well, am I missing something?  What happened about the announcement on the 21st.  No one has reported what the new program entails.


----------



## taffy19

Read post #52 by Kal.  There is a delay.


----------



## Kal

RichardL said:


> Well, am I missing something?  What happened about the announcement on the 21st.  No one has reported what the new program entails.


Hyatt punted and delayed the roll out to July 2017.


----------



## sts1732

rickandcindy23 said:


> I want to buy Hyatt as well.  $18K is more than most of the resale brokers are showing for list prices.  Do they price low and hope for ROFR to take the unit, or what?  I was looking at Fidelity resales of Hyatt today, actually.  Lots of listings, low prices, and MF's seem to be inconsistent for the same season and resort.


We have owned at sunset for almost 20yrs., and watching the sales, threads it would seem that the "lots of inventory" would be at the beach house or windward. Both are at the opposite end of town. The beach house is just at the entrance of the island off of US1, with the coast guard station really close by, very busy. Windward is on the Atlantic side by the airport. Nice property but not close to anything and the smell of decaying seaweed and no beach can be over powering at times.
Buying into Sun set, you are in the heart of everything, park your car in the garage for 10.00 for the week and walk anywhere. Our unit is a 2 bdr. town house that faces the gulf unobstructed, with MF's of over 1,600.00 for this yr. it was more than a 2 bdr. with a pool/ partial ocean view.
I know in the past they tried to sell Windward as a condo for the entire yr. for just under 1,000,000.00(9 something) that went over like a herd of turtles also, just a bad location.
My guess would be that you are right in that the low prices you see are hoping for a ROFR. Just thinkin....


----------



## sts1732

Kal said:


> Very interesting.  Primarily Hyatt has been saying for some time that they will take all ROFR sales.  As always, just smoke.  The $18K price is a bit of a surprise.  I have pegged a 2X multiplier which means Hyatt would have to sell your unit at $36K.  Your $18K number will help other resale purchasers of platinum units in setting their offer price.


Kal,   With Hyatt's dog and pony show, you are probably right with the 36K figure in a presentation.


----------



## bizaro86

Is there any reason to think Hyatt will go crazy on ROFR when they launch? It seems to me they could just take corporate inventory, trade-ins, and use interval to supplement, as well as giving pure points owners access to the existing point system

I know starwood (same parent) hasn't changed ROFR paterns since they launched a trust, and even seem to be decreasing under ILG ownership. They just passed a week 51 on Maui for 17k, which would have been taken before, imo.


----------



## Kal

bizaro86 said:


> Is there any reason to think Hyatt will go crazy on ROFR when they launch? It seems to me they could just take corporate inventory, trade-ins, and use interval to supplement, as well as giving pure points owners access to the existing point system
> 
> I know starwood (same parent) hasn't changed ROFR paterns since they launched a trust, and even seem to be decreasing under ILG ownership. They just passed a week 51 on Maui for 17k, which would have been taken before, imo.


My guess is Hyatt's ROFR decision logic will remain the same as in the previous 1-2 year period until Pure Points rollout.  Matter of fact based on the current source of their funds, they might take fewer units.  The "Trust" will have a new funding mechanism and they will have to stock the grab bag to entice new PP members.  And of course in July when they just roll out PP in Florida, that will create a very messy situation where a person can buy unit/weeks in the west, but not in Florida.  With all that drama, it's a good time to buy a unit/week.


----------



## GregT

Okay, I know I'm going to regret asking this, because I need another timeshare like I need a hole in the head, but is there a Hyatt that is considered a good MF/Hyatt point value?

I'm thinking of a 2,200 or 1,880 point package -- I think the real winners in the Marriott system were the people who purchased a week before the point system rolled out, as their weeks were eligible for enrollment. Hyatt has alot of nice properties and I'm just curious.

Thanks in advance!

Best,

Greg


----------



## Kal

consensus seems to say Sedona is the best buy.  Low M/F and a good pricing.


----------



## GregT

Kal said:


> consensus seems to say Sedona is the best buy.  Low M/F and a good pricing.



Kal, thank you -- will be interesting to watch the Hyatt transition.  It's a nice network of properties and curious how the points program will impact it.

Best,

Greg


----------



## sts1732

GregT said:


> Okay, I know I'm going to regret asking this, because I need another timeshare like I need a hole in the head, but is there a Hyatt that is considered a good MF/Hyatt point value?
> 
> I'm thinking of a 2,200 or 1,880 point package -- I think the real winners in the Marriott system were the people who purchased a week before the point system rolled out, as their weeks were eligible for enrollment. Hyatt has alot of nice properties and I'm just curious.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


Some yrs. back we bought at Pinion pointe. What was nice for us is, we bought a 2 bdr. lock out on the odd year at 2,000 points. It made it nice for us in trading and using points else where with out paying MF's every year just member fee on even years. Besides we enjoy the high desert, lots to do around Sedona.


----------



## Kal

I'm starting to feeling better about Puerto Rico.  A person could get a week there at maybe $2K but with a $1.6K M/F.  There's other drama, but maybe a good play for additional points.  Can't imagine Hyatt would take it on ROFR.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

We bought at Sedona , 2000 pt 2 bedroom lock off for $8,000 , no ROFR . We usually just use a few days a yr there as we live 4 hrs away. We bought there for the low MF and a  fairly low price. Our unit has a great view of the Redrocks. If you are using it for trade also then Sdona is a great place to purchase.


----------



## lizap

Kal said:


> My guess is Hyatt's ROFR decision logic will remain the same as in the previous 1-2 year period until Pure Points rollout.  Matter of fact based on the current source of their funds, they might take fewer units.  The "Trust" will have a new funding mechanism and they will have to stock the grab bag to entice new PP members.  And of course in July when they just roll out PP in Florida, that will create a very messy situation where a person can buy unit/weeks in the west, but not in Florida.  With all that drama, it's a good time to buy a unit/week.



So they plan to roll out PP first in FL. How will this work?...


----------



## Kal

I'm sure Hyatt will apply their infinite wisdom to what appears to be lemonade in the making.


----------



## taffy19

A few sales managers told us that they learned from Marriott's mistakes, when they rolled out the new Trust and Destination Club and promised to make it better!  Both worked for the Marriott before.

This was when it was still a Hyatt resort owned by Hyatt Hotels but less than two months later, ILG bought the Hyatt Residence Club!

I screamed and yelled at the sales manager for not letting us know this when we bought.  He claimed that he didn't know and proved it with the email he received.

I have learned from this that constant changes will be made to enhance the bottom line for their investors.  That is capitalism and nothing wrong with it but it will hurt their loyal owners if they go too far!


----------



## Kal

Hyatt will continue to entice new buyers by showing them all the legacy resorts plus whatever is contained in the PP bag of resorts.  Once in the PP Program and find out there are two very different worlds, those points owners will be looking over the fence wishing they could find a way to get good access to the legacy resorts.  For the legacy owners, it will be business as always with very good access.  However, there will be NO NEW RESORTS even though that was a major sales pitch at the time we made our purchases.  IMHO, the demand will be high to buy into the resale legacy program.


----------



## taffy19

This is exactly what the Marriott and former Westin Resort owners are advising newbies to do (buy re-sale) and saving money.

Marriott has given the re-sale buyers several chances to put their re-sale purchases in the Destination Club but at a higher cost than when it first was introduced.  I believe that they will do the same thing here.

They may even co-mingle different brands with each other as I believe that is their goal.  We will find out.


----------



## bdh

iconnections said:


> This is exactly what the Marriott and former Westin Resort owners are advising newbies to do (buy re-sale) and saving money.
> 
> Marriott has given the re-sale buyers several chances to put their re-sale purchases in the Destination Club but at a higher cost than when it first was introduced.  I believe that they will do the same thing here.
> 
> They may even co-mingle different brands with each other as I believe that is their goal.  We will find out.



In early Feb, the sales staff at Windward Pointe noted the same thing - Hyatt learned from Marriott's miscues and the HRC PP program would attempt to correct those miscues.  Will the Marriott points "skim" mess be rectified in the HRC PP? 

Potential changes to HRC owners (legacy & PP) may provide a perk to multiple week/PP owners.

Will be shocked if the HRC PP program doesn't include a cross pollination with other TS systems.  Expect that to be the bait to attract current HRC owners to buy into the PP program.

Current HRC week owners that use their deeded week have nothing to fear with the PP program as no points program can trump a deed.  Expect the mantra of "buy a location you'd be happy with returning to" will become even more relevant.

Also expect the biggest concern to remaining legacy owners will be how aggressive HRC will be with ROFR in the future as aging/exiting legacy owners sell their deeded weeks - as time marches on, that is the way the PP program can increase access to sold out HRC properties to PP points buyers.


----------



## pacman777

I'm interested in buying into Hyatt timeshare program given that the brand and quality is on par w/ Starwood (Westin/Sheraton). However, in looking at all the fees that HVC imposes, it seems they are nickeling and diming you, such as a transaction fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, etc.  Just a few questions on these fees:

1. Not sure what a transaction fee is, but does that mean I have to pay $41 to use points to book a stay? 
2. If I want to rent out my deeded unit to a guest, then do I have to pay for a $30 guest certificate or is this only applicable to points bookings?
3. Is the cancellation fee applicable to any cancellations or only for reservations cancelled within a certain period from check-in date? Vistana/Starwood only charges if you cancel inside the 60-day window from check-in which is fair and reasonable.

This was based on Kal's very useful Hyatt page:
http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/Fees.JPG


----------



## ResaleExpert

pacman777 said:


> I'm interested in buying into Hyatt timeshare program given that the brand and quality is on par w/ Starwood (Westin/Sheraton). However, in looking at all the fees that HVC imposes, it seems they are nickeling and diming you, such as a transaction fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, etc.  Just a few questions on these fees:
> 
> 1. Not sure what a transaction fee is, but does that mean I have to pay $41 to use points to book a stay?
> 2. If I want to rent out my deeded unit to a guest, then do I have to pay for a $30 guest certificate or is this only applicable to points bookings?
> 3. Is the cancellation fee applicable to any cancellations or only for reservations cancelled within a certain period from check-in date? Vistana/Starwood only charges if you cancel inside the 60-day window from check-in which is fair and reasonable.
> 
> This was based on Kal's very useful Hyatt page:
> http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/Fees.JPG


Good evening; after years of working For Hyatt Residence Club as a sales executive then over 10 years with over 500 Hyatt resales I am enjoying the posts and decided to add some comments when appropriate.  I have almost 80 Hyatt listings and work with all brokers to find my clients the best Hyatt (or other premium timeshare) ownership for THEIR needs.  
Above is correct for 1 & 2; for 3 yes, the cancel fee is for any cancel and you can cancel up to 24 hours ahead and keep your points (in the LCUP) program; quite a benefit!  Bill


----------



## bdh

pacman777 said:


> I'm interested in buying into Hyatt timeshare program given that the brand and quality is on par w/ Starwood (Westin/Sheraton). However, in looking at all the fees that HVC imposes, it seems they are nickeling and diming you, such as a transaction fee, cancellation fee, guest certificate, etc.  Just a few questions on these fees:
> 
> 1. Not sure what a transaction fee is, but does that mean I have to pay $41 to use points to book a stay?
> 2. If I want to rent out my deeded unit to a guest, then do I have to pay for a $30 guest certificate or is this only applicable to points bookings?
> 3. Is the cancellation fee applicable to any cancellations or only for reservations cancelled within a certain period from check-in date? Vistana/Starwood only charges if you cancel inside the 60-day window from check-in which is fair and reasonable.
> 
> This was based on Kal's very useful Hyatt page:
> http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/Fees.JPG



To add onto what ResaleExpert noted:

1. Yes - the one exception is that there is no fee charged to confirm the use of your deeded week/unit for the "first" HRPP reservation.  IE: if you have a lock off floor plan and you want to split it into two units/reservations, both units/reservations are deemed HRPP, but only one of the reservation confirmations is free - they charge you for the second.
2. Yes - the one exception is that if your guest is family or friend that would use another Hyatt reservation in the future, you can place a "Reservation Affidavit" on file with Hyatt for the one time cost of $32 - after the initial cost, there would never be a cost for a "Guest Certificate" for family or friends to use any Hyatt reservation in the future.
3. The points returned to your account would be in RCUP in lieu of LCUP - only real difference is that in RCUP you can book an HRC or II exchange while in LCUP you can only book an HRC exchange.


----------



## SunsetMaven

Hi everyone - glad I saw all this. We are Starwood owners (resale of course!) so very new to Hyatt. We are currently at the Hyatt Kaanapali residence club on a 2 bedroom preview offer and loving it! Came here to learn all I can before our preview on Thursday. 

I read through this entire thread plus other Hyatt posts. 

A few questions:

1. If I want to just buy the lowest MF/pt, it sounds like Sedona is the way to go. But if I just want to trade into Maui every year, and Hawaii isn't a part of the points program that's rolling out, what should I do instead?

2. Is my only way of guaranteeing a week in maui (timing very flexible) to buy resale for maui HRC?

3. When the points program rolls out in July 2017, it doesn't affect Maui right so I shouldn't rush into the resale market right?

4. Is hyatt ROFR-ing the Maui units too? They look kind of expensive on the resale sites and inventory is low!

Thanks all!!


----------



## Kal

SunsetMaven said:


> Hi everyone - glad I saw all this. We are Starwood owners (resale of course!) so very new to Hyatt. We are currently at the Hyatt Kaanapali residence club on a 2 bedroom preview offer and loving it! Came here to learn all I can before our preview on Thursday.
> 
> I read through this entire thread plus other Hyatt posts.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> 1. If I want to just buy the lowest MF/pt, it sounds like Sedona is the way to go. But if I just want to trade into Maui every year, and Hawaii isn't a part of the points program that's rolling out, what should I do instead?
> 
> 2. Is my only way of guaranteeing a week in maui (timing very flexible) to buy resale for maui HRC?
> 
> 3. When the points program rolls out in July 2017, it doesn't affect Maui right so I shouldn't rush into the resale market right?
> 
> 4. Is hyatt ROFR-ing the Maui units too? They look kind of expensive on the resale sites and inventory is low!
> 
> Thanks all!!


Let's see if we can give you some thoughts:
1. If Maui remains as a "Legacy Resort", it will be business as always where owners can use their points to reserve Maui units.  For the Pure Points Program, the only Maui units which would be available are those Hyatt obtained on ROFR or from units formerly owned by Legacy Maui owners and deposited into the PP program.  On this basis your best approach is access thru the Legacy program.

2. True, if you own Maui you are guaranteed ONLY the unit/week you own.  For other Maui weeks you would request a reservation like a stay at any other Legacy resort.

3.  IMHO, Hyatt will try to get Maui ROFR resale units for the Pure Points Program, so the sooner you own Maui (thru resale) the better.

4.  It would seem logical that Hyatt will take Maui ROFR resale units, but if you apply my "2X" multiplier on the resale price, it may be too high for a ROFR decision.

Hope this helps.


----------



## SunsetMaven

Thanks kal!!

1. So once you deposit into PPP as a legacy owner is that a permanent decision or year to year choice?

2.Given the current units the developer has ROFR for Maui and owners who have converted to PPP, it sounds like it would be more cost effective to buy into Sedona and use points to get into Maui. How does availability usually look on the owners portal?

3. What do new unit sell for in Sedona from the developer? So I can apply the 2x multiplier. 

4. Am I correct when I say after PPP rolls out hyatt residence clubs will be broken out into two separate inventories : those for PPP and those for legacy owners? Meaning if I was a legacy owner by resale I could only have access to other legacy inventory?

5. What would be your recommendation in what we do on the resale market?

Thanks!!!


----------



## sts1732

SunsetMaven said:


> Thanks kal!!
> 
> 1. So once you deposit into PPP as a legacy owner is that a permanent decision or year to year choice?
> 
> 2.Given the current units the developer has ROFR for Maui and owners who have converted to PPP, it sounds like it would be more cost effective to buy into Sedona and use points to get into Maui. How does availability usually look on the owners portal?
> 
> 3. What do new unit sell for in Sedona from the developer? So I can apply the 2x multiplier.
> 
> 4. Am I correct when I say after PPP rolls out hyatt residence clubs will be broken out into two separate inventories : those for PPP and those for legacy owners? Meaning if I was a legacy owner by resale I could only have access to other legacy inventory?
> 
> 5. What would be your recommendation in what we do on the resale market?
> 
> Thanks!!!


  You might want to look on Red week, There are quite a few.  Everything from deeded varies, to deeded same unit, odd/single yrs., lots of different weeks.


----------



## SunsetMaven

sts1732 said:


> You might want to look on Red week, There are quite a few.  Everything from deeded varies, to deeded same unit, odd/single yrs., lots of different weeks.



Thanks sts1732! How is the availability of booking into Maui if I buy in Sedona?


----------



## DAman

It is very limited. I see one week available in May for Maui.  2200 points for a two bedroom unit.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Maui is difficult to trade into unless you can go at a moments notice. We got 4 days midweek trade for May and were on a waitlist to add on but it did not pan out so we are staying next door at the hotel ( with credit card points). I would not buya Hyatt elsewhere with the sole intention of trading into Maui ,again unless you are free to travel any time.That being said,  Sedona Pinon Pointe is a good resale to do if you are using it to trade. I saw some 2000 pt units for 10,000. 2200 pts is what you would need however for a 2 bedroom in Maui.We bought both our Hyatt resales from Fidelity and have only good things to say about the experience. My understanding is that once you convert to PPP it is for good,  not a yr to yr. We actually are looking into Starwood because they own more in Maui and Hyatt Kaanapali is challenging to trade into.


----------



## SunsetMaven

Tucson traveler said:


> Maui is difficult to trade into unless you can go at a moments notice. We got 4 days midweek trade for May and were on a waitlist to add on but it did not pan out so we are staying next door at the hotel ( with credit card points). I would not buya Hyatt elsewhere with the sole intention of trading into Maui ,again unless you are free to travel any time.That being said,  Sedona Pinon Pointe is a good resale to do if you are using it to trade. I saw some 2000 pt units for 10,000. 2200 pts is what you would need however for a 2 bedroom in Maui.We bought both our Hyatt resales from Fidelity and have only good things to say about the experience. My understanding is that once you convert to PPP it is for good,  not a yr to yr. We actually are looking into Starwood because they own more in Maui and Hyatt Kaanapali is challenging to trade into.




We own at Sheraton Broadway plantation SBP and deposit into interval every year. I got it for $0 and seller paid closing costs. Bought it off eBay so I guess I paid 0.99. MF is only $980 for a 2 bedroom. They are not a mandatory resort so no points on resale but I like that cause it saves me the SVN fee and it has low MFs. I settled for a gold week instead of plat because it's supposed to be an excellent trader regardless. And it has been for us. If you are ok with waiting for bulk deposits and inventory II actually has a lot of inventory for Westin princeville and Westin kaanapali though it's only studios or 1 bedrooms. And as a Starwood owner I get a 72 hour priority window. We have traded into four seasons aviara November, Westin kaanapali in August, Maine in October peak foliage 3 bedroom as some of the highlights so it's been solid.


----------



## SunsetMaven

Tucson traveler said:


> Maui is difficult to trade into unless you can go at a moments notice. We got 4 days midweek trade for May and were on a waitlist to add on but it did not pan out so we are staying next door at the hotel ( with credit card points). I would not buya Hyatt elsewhere with the sole intention of trading into Maui ,again unless you are free to travel any time.That being said,  Sedona Pinon Pointe is a good resale to do if you are using it to trade. I saw some 2000 pt units for 10,000. 2200 pts is what you would need however for a 2 bedroom in Maui.We bought both our Hyatt resales from Fidelity and have only good things to say about the experience. My understanding is that once you convert to PPP it is for good,  not a yr to yr. We actually are looking into Starwood because they own more in Maui and Hyatt Kaanapali is challenging to trade into.



One other thing. Westin kaanapali MFs are really high! The other option is westin Kierland (low MFs around 1100-1200 for a 2 bedroom) which is a mandatory resort where the points will transfer on resale and you can use those points to get into Westin kaanapali. That was my original plan


----------



## SunsetMaven

DAman said:


> It is very limited. I see one week available in May for Maui.  2200 points for a two bedroom unit.



Thanks! So it doesn't sound like it's something I can book more than 2 months in advance then. And the 2000pts I get with Piñon Pointe isn't going to be enough. What's a good Hyatt resort with 2200 points that has low MFs and low resale cost?


----------



## wilma

I had to combine some carmel and Tahoe points to spend one week in a maui 2 bedroom. We stayed in sept and reserved several months in advance.


----------



## DAman

SunsetMaven said:


> Thanks! So it doesn't sound like it's something I can book more than 2 months in advance then. And the 2000pts I get with Piñon Pointe isn't going to be enough. What's a good Hyatt resort with 2200 points that has low MFs and low resale cost?


Look for a platinum week at Piñon Pointe. They are 2200 points. 

Or purchase 2 weeks. They can be combined. I did this.  

I would not expect large availability for Maui. Now or in the future. Many many people want to go there. 

I would purchase Hyatt not for the opportunity to get into Maui but for the outstanding properties in Sedona, Carmel, Incline Village, Northstar, and others. And you may be able to get into Maui. 

You receive an II gold account with your purchase and good trading opportunities in II. 

The new system is still an unknown. I'm cautiously optimistic about it.

I like the current system and I've studied the rules and I have used all my points. DW loves Carmel and it is a ninety minute drive for us to get there. That helps.


----------



## sts1732

Dman and Tucson traveler are correct, Maui is very tough to get into on a resale or even trade into. Looking out to Hyatt, Beach house, and highlands both have 2 bdr. with 2200 to 2500points. Beach house can get a deal but salty MF's, highlands is salty, both in cost and MF's.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

We bought 2 weeks one at Beach House and 1 at Pinon Pointe. Pinon Pointe is your best best for MF fees and you can get a 2200 unit. We used My Resort Network, Angie Edwards from Fidelity though if you check on tug there are lots of recommendations.  I just checked and there was a 2200 pt listing at Pinon Pointe for 10,000. Not sure if that is high enough to pass ROFR but the agents would have information on what has gone through and what Hyatt has taken back.   Beach House is a lower up front cost but higher MF. We have loved our trades within Hyatt and have only a few places we have not tried yet.We wish we knew about Hyatt when we were in our 20s. If Maui stays in the legacy program which I have heard is the plan then availability may improve as more units are sold. Either way, you can not go wrong owning a Hyatt week,( unless you only want to use it for Maui) Good luck!


----------



## SunsetMaven

Thank you all! It sounds like We will go down the Piñon or Windward Route since MFs are low with the intent of trading into Maui but also content and happy to go elsewhere for the year. 

I was looking at the points chart. Am i reading right that in the low season mountain weeks are only 200 points? Wow!  We live in Colorado and love extra long weekends all months of the year up there!


----------



## lizap

We own both Hyatt and Westin. I definitely would not buy a 2200 point Hyatt unit with the hope of trading into Maui. Maui is currently very difficult to trade into using Hyatt's internal system.  I suspect it will probably never be easy to get using Hyatt points. If you can travel on short notice, you may get it, but you most definitely cannot count on it. Conversely, it is easy to trade into Maui or Kauai using Westin SOs, as long as you don't have to go during the winter season. Even then, if you can book 8 months out, your chances are much better of getting a Westin unit than a Hyatt unit.  A platinum plus at Westin Kierland will likely run a couple of thousand more, but will greatly increase your chances going to Hawaii when you want to and quite possibly at all...


----------



## pacman777

Is there a site or thread that shows what the latest maintenance fees are at the various HRC properties? I realize Pinon Pointe is the lowest MF per point, but was wondering what are the other resorts that have relatively low MF/point after Pinon.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Sunset Raven Im intrigued by your post. We have not mastered Interval at all, and rarely find inventory we want. How do find out when there are bulk deposits? Is that something as a Hyatt owner we are privy to or strictly for Starwood owners?  I have heard that the Orlando Starwood Bella phase are lower initial costs than Kierland. Do you know what MFs are for Sheraton Bella?


----------



## bdh

Just adding a note relative to MF and point values. You may want to consider Wild Oak.  While not at the Pinon Pointe level of MF, WO's are at the lower end of the spectrum and the property has 3 Bd units - thus providing higher point count for just one MF.


----------



## SunsetMaven

lizap said:


> We own both Hyatt and Westin. I definitely would not buy a 2200 point Hyatt unit with the hope of trading into Maui. Maui is currently very difficult to trade into using Hyatt's internal system.  I suspect it will probably never be easy to get using Hyatt points. If you can travel on short notice, you may get it, but you most definitely cannot count on it. Conversely, it is easy to trade into Maui or Kauai using Westin SOs, as long as you don't have to go during the winter season. Even then, if you can book 8 months out, your chances are much better of getting a Westin unit than a Hyatt unit.  A platinum plus at Westin Kierland will likely run a couple of thousand more, but will greatly increase your chances going to Hawaii when you want to and quite possibly at all...



Thanks!! When you say short notice, how short is that usually? In a week? Or 1-2 months?

The Hyatt suites in kaanapali are just so much nicer than Westin


----------



## SunsetMaven

Tucson traveler said:


> Sunset Raven Im intrigued by your post. We have not mastered Interval at all, and rarely find inventory we want. How do find out when there are bulk deposits? Is that something as a Hyatt owner we are privy to or strictly for Starwood owners?  I have heard that the Orlando Starwood Bella phase are lower initial costs than Kierland. Do you know what MFs are for Sheraton Bella?



You can become a member of tugbbs and have access to the sightings forum. But what I also usually do is check every morning. That's usually when deposits happen or people cancel. If you're checking in the evenings generally nothing "great"  will be available. It would've been snatched up. 

Then for seeing other Starwood properties when there is a availability via a mini or bulk deposit other Starwood owners get a 72 hour priority window. 

Svv Bella and keywest phases  are also mandatory resorts for Starwood but they don't have the platinum plus season and therefore you have to buy more than one unit to get the points you need to go to Maui so you are paying two maintenance fees.  Also I think I quoted the wrong maintenance fee for Kierland… I think it's either 1450 Or 1500.  If you go to the Starwood  someone has a database of maintenance fees


----------



## SunsetMaven

bdh said:


> Just adding a note relative to MF and point values. You may want to consider Wild Oak.  While not at the Pinon Pointe level of MF, WO's are at the lower end of the spectrum and the property has 3 Bd units - thus providing higher point count for just one MF.




Ooooo I like that idea!


----------



## Kal

pacman777 said:


> Is there a site or thread that shows what the latest maintenance fees are at the various HRC properties? I realize Pinon Pointe is the lowest MF per point, but was wondering what are the other resorts that have relatively low MF/point after Pinon.


Here are a couple of relevant M/Fs:
Wild Oaks = $1207 (2 BR); $1558 (3 BR)
Beach House = $1235 (2 BR)


----------



## lizap

SunsetMaven said:


> Thanks!! When you say short notice, how short is that usually? In a week? Or 1-2 months?
> 
> The Hyatt suites in kaanapali are just so much nicer than Westin



If you want to be guranteed a  week at the Hyatt Kaanapali, then you should buy a week there.  Presently, that is the only way you can be guranteed a week there.  I am a risk-taker, but the stakes are way too high for me to buy a Hyatt unit somewhere else with the hope of being able to use points to go there (as it stands now).  The difference between Westin and Hyatt quality (neglible, IMO) would certainly not be enough for me to make this gamble...


----------



## SunsetMaven

lizap said:


> If you want to be guranteed a  week at the Hyatt Kaanapali, then you should buy a week there.  Presently, that is the only way you can be guranteed a week there.  I am a risk-taker, but the stakes are way too high for me to buy a Hyatt unit somewhere else with the hope of being able to use points to go there (as it stands now).  The difference between Westin and Hyatt quality (neglible, IMO) would certainly not be enough for me to make this gamble...



Heh fair enough. But it's the little things that make the difference for us. We have stayed at both. We love the all glass sliding doors at both master bedroom and living room. The large terrace. Perhaps those little things aren't worth the price tag though lol

We do love to travel so we would more than likely be content to travel elsewhere too. It's just that really with any other place we want to go that Hyatt owns I've seen show up on interval with our Sheraton trader. 

Thanks for the feedback! The whole points program rollout potential also worries me a bit.


----------



## lizap

SunsetMaven said:


> Heh fair enough. But it's the little things that make the difference for us. We have stayed at both. We love the all glass sliding doors at both master bedroom and living room. The large terrace. Perhaps those little things aren't worth the price tag though lol
> 
> We do love to travel so we would more than likely be content to travel elsewhere too. It's just that really with any other place we want to go that Hyatt owns I've seen show up on interval with our Sheraton trader.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback! The whole points program rollout potential also worries me a bit.



The other factor that should be taken into consideration is the pending introduction of the PPP program. This will very likely (over time) reduce the number of units available for we legacy owners to trade into, which could make it even more difficult to use points to go to Maui.  Over on the Marriott forum, some believe that a similar introduction by Marriott (several years ago) has led to a reduction in resale prices (along with other factors). In your case, I believe a wise choice would be to look for a Hyatt Kannapali resale..


----------



## Cropman

lizap said:


> The other factor that should be taken into consideration is the pending introduction of the PPP program. This will very likely (over time) reduce the number of units available for we legacy owners to trade into, which could make it even more difficult to use points to go to Maui.  Over on the Marriott forum, some believe that a similar introduction by Marriott (several years ago) has led to a reduction in resale prices (along with other factors). In your case, I believe a wise choice would be to look for a Hyatt Kannapali resale..



Lizap,  you say there is a reduction in resale prices, I'm assuming now, as a result of what Marriott did.  How long did that take?  Also, what happened to prices right after the new program was introduced?  Thanks!!

JC


----------



## SunsetMaven

lizap said:


> The other factor that should be taken into consideration is the pending introduction of the PPP program. This will very likely (over time) reduce the number of units available for we legacy owners to trade into, which could make it even more difficult to use points to go to Maui.  Over on the Marriott forum, some believe that a similar introduction by Marriott (several years ago) has led to a reduction in resale prices (along with other factors). In your case, I believe a wise choice would be to look for a Hyatt Kannapali resale..


I agree. It would probably be a transition as they convince more and more owners to adjust to HPP and thus reducing the inventory pool for legacy owners. So there may be higher resale prices in the short term if people fomo but overtime it would likely decrease. 

But if the rumor is true that Maui remains a legacy resort I wonder how then HPP owners would be able to trade into Maui at all ??


----------



## lizap

Cropman said:


> Lizap,  you say there is a reduction in resale prices, I'm assuming now, as a result of what Marriott did.  How long did that take?  Also, what happened to prices right after the new program was introduced?  Thanks!!
> 
> JC



I would direct you to the threads on the Marriott forum that discuss this.  Note this was discussed as one possible factor. Seems to make sense to me.


----------



## lizap

Would love to hear from other Hyatt owners who have had success using points to get to Hyatt Kannapali for the specific week they wanted. I have been looking for a week since they opened and have never seen a week.  Wonder if you put in an ongoing request, what your chances would be?

QUOTE="SunsetMaven, post: 1979631, member: 84427"]I agree. It would probably be a transition as they convince more and more owners to adjust to HPP and thus reducing the inventory pool for legacy owners. So there may be higher resale prices in the short term if people fomo but overtime it would likely decrease.

But if the rumor is true that Maui remains a legacy resort I wonder how then HPP owners would be able to trade into Maui at all ??[/QUOTE


----------



## Kal

SunsetMaven said:


> ...But if the rumor is true that Maui remains a legacy resort I wonder how then HPP owners would be able to trade into Maui at all ??


All currently owned Maui units are in the legacy program. Any Maui units sold by Hyatt will go into the legacy program.  As of late, more than 50% of the units have not yet been sold so that's a lot of upside and will make it easier for HRC members to trade in, not harder.

The only way to get Maui units into the PPP is thru resale ROFR and Maui owners opting into the PP Program.  To me, that is a small impact on future trades.


----------



## lizap

Kal said:


> All currently owned Maui units are in the legacy program. Any Maui units sold by Hyatt will go into the legacy program.  As of late, more than 50% of the units have not yet been sold so that's a lot of upside and will make it easier for HRC members to trade in, not harder.
> 
> The only way to get Maui units into the PPP is thru resale ROFR and Maui owners opting into the PP Program.  To me, that is a small impact on future trades.




Kal, it would seem to me that one of the best ways for Hyatt to entice people to buy into the PPP system is to tell them that theywill be able to get to the Hyatt Kannapali using points. I strongly suspect Hyatt will find a way for new PPP owners to have access to this resort...


----------



## Kal

It's still not clear why Maui was the only resort singled out to remain in the legacy system.  Indeed, that would have been a huge draw to get owners to flip into the PPP and for newbies to buy into the PPP.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

My guess is that ,its simply that they can make more selling them outright as the cost is so significantly higher than elsewhere. I'm sure
there will be many other  enticing units in the plan. I know there were some Westin units mentioned now that they own both.


----------



## ResaleExpert

A Director at Byatt Residence Club
Said Maui will stay Legacy as this property has multiple owners and a developer all sharing. Seems this group would not want to dilute their ownership
With points. Plus Points program will likely have an annual dues amount based on number of points. If $0.80 per points then 2,200 pints will be $1,660 or ~$1,000 less than Maui dues.


----------



## ResaleExpert

With Hyatt's new Key West Season upgrades for most weeks they are exercising on ma y of these weeks, along with Piñon Pointe. 
Hyatt will open a new Sales office in Key West to sell points, so it's obvious they will try very hard to sell (at least) 2,200 points to every prospect in order to use 19 different weeks that are now Diamond.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Just like Marriott, it will take quite a few points to get in during high seasons so Hyatt will have a much higher average sale PLUS much higher dues income because of this. 
Points buyer = Less inventory in most resorts for points to buy and use, with almost certainly less availability to trade and higher prices and dues. I think deeded resales will be the way to go for many years.


----------



## ResaleExpert

I have about 7 Diamond weeks listed at Beach House and I think this may be the best time to buy here for 2,200 points. 
Hyatt is building new units at Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation and has exercised on almost none of my resales at these two resorts. They do not need / want inventory at these two so there are a few good deals at these.


----------



## SunandFun83

Kal said:


> I would do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to buy a unit/week today.  There's nothing to lose.  If Hyatt takes it on ROFR so be it.  But if they don't, you're the winner.




I own several Hyatt weeks and several Marriott weeks and Marriott points.  Marriott had two extremely important issues for the points program:
1.  owners paid to enroll weeks in points and gain the flexibility of the points system.

2.  Only secondary market weeks purchased before June 2010 could enroll in points.  The weeks retain original week ownership, but, cannot exchange for points.

Hyatt might find a way to limit acc SS to PPP for weeks purchased after a certain date.  This date is likely tied to introduction of the PPP.  Seems like you want to buy a secondary market week sooner rather than later.  

PM me for further discussion or a list of weeks I own.


----------



## lizap

As Kal noted in an earlier post, it is doubtful there will be much incentive for weeks' owners to join the PPP program..


----------



## suzannesimon

I can see Hyatt coming up with a way for us to exchange for points the way that Marriott did.  They need to be able to access weeks-owned properties in order to fulfill requests from Points owners.  With Marriott even still, I hear many more complaints from Points owners who can't get the weeks they want from the system.


----------



## Kal

suzannesimon said:


> I can see Hyatt coming up with a way for us to exchange for points the way that Marriott did.  They need to be able to access weeks-owned properties in order to fulfill requests from Points owners.  With Marriott even still, I hear many more complaints from Points owners who can't get the weeks they want from the system.


Points owners will have access to weeks properties that are in the PP Program.  IMHO, I hope there will never be a situation where PPP owners can get access to the Legacy weeks.  Any cross pollination between the two programs will not be acceptable.


----------



## bizaro86

They have said they are modelling it on Sheraton Flex. That program is built within the legacy points system, and the new flex owners can access all legacy inventory at the floating period. Of course, legacy owners can access flex inventory during the float period as well, which makes it fair.

I strongly suspect that is how Hyatt will roll out pure points. Owners will have the ability to make home resort reservations for anything in the pure points trust, and lcup access to all legacy inventory. Legacy owners will have access to trust inventory in lcup.

Nothing else makes sense, because they will want to sell pure points with a map of all their existing resorts, plus new/Vistana resort acess as a bonus.


----------



## lizap

If it's similar to FLEX, I see little to no impact on legacy owners. As a WKV owner, I've seen no impact since the introduction of FLEX.


----------



## suzannesimon

bizaro86 said:


> They have said they are modelling it on Sheraton Flex. That program is built within the legacy points system, and the new flex owners can access all legacy inventory at the floating period. Of course, legacy owners can access flex inventory during the float period as well, which makes it fair.
> 
> I strongly suspect that is how Hyatt will roll out pure points. Owners will have the ability to make home resort reservations for anything in the pure points trust, and lcup access to all legacy inventory. Legacy owners will have access to trust inventory in lcup.
> 
> Nothing else makes sense, because they will want to sell pure points with a map of all their existing resorts, plus new/Vistana resort acess as a bonus.



I have not followed the Points issue because I rent my weeks if I don't use them and then rent where I want to go.  Are they actually going to merge the Hyatt and Vistana programs?


----------



## glengil1

We are currently looking to buy Weeks 7 and possibly 8 at Hyatt Coconut Plantation.  Are they currently excising the ROFR and if so at at $ level for Diamond and Platinum weeks?  Thanks Glen


----------



## bizaro86

There have been rumours pure points owners will have some access to Vistana resorts, but no details. I doubt the owners of the brands would be happy to have the programs completely merged.

They said on their conference call they were learning from flex, so I think it will be similar, but not a merger of the programs.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Just went to a presentation here at Lagunamar and they vehemently denied any crossover, of course


----------



## suzannesimon

Maybe an option for them to consider is giving Hyatt and Vistana owners a preference period in Interval.


----------



## Cropman

I'm waiting to see if I have to give up my week for good, or can I can pick and choose my year to give it up.  As a winter week owner at Sunset Harbor, it would be a deal breaker for me if I had to give up the week forever.  I want to use my week most years.  I would rather rent my week out and rent a week where I want to go, rather than give it up for good, or trade it within Hyatt's current system.  What huge incentive is there going to be for existing owners?

Can some owners of high point weeks, Diamond, Plat, Gold, please tell me what will entice you to join the HPP?  What can Hyatt offer you, and you will pay for the privilege, of joining the new system.  I'm just curious, because we can already trade within Hyatt, if available, and if you are going with II, our points are already valuable.  Joining is not going to give preference in any other system, so Marriott, Hilton, Westin, etc aren't going to show up anymore than they do now in II.  I'm pretty sure cruise discounts won't be so high that everyone will suddenly be cruising.  I'm just confused and my head is starting to hurt.  Thanks!!


----------



## lizap

We went through this a while back over on the Vistana forum prior to the introduction of FLEX. So far it has been a nonevent for legacy (deeded) owners.  I suspect that will be the case here. ILG has no incentive to tick off legacy owners.


----------



## bizaro86

One thing that has been obvious about Vistana is that they have only raised points on a resort when they were developing a new phase at that resort. Recently this has happened at the Westin st John and the oceanfront rooms in Maui.

Given they just added a bunch of points in Key West, is it possible they could be planning another resort in Key West? I'm not that familiar with the area, is there a place for another resort? There seems to be a bunch of empty land by the airport, but I thought I recalled environmental issues prevented that getting developed...


----------



## lizap

I think it is likely that new resorts will be added/or new sections at existing resorts that will be part of PPP


----------



## heathpack

Cropman said:


> I'm waiting to see if I have to give up my week for good, or can I can pick and choose my year to give it up.  As a winter week owner at Sunset Harbor, it would be a deal breaker for me if I had to give up the week forever.  I want to use my week most years.  I would rather rent my week out and rent a week where I want to go, rather than give it up for good, or trade it within Hyatt's current system.  What huge incentive is there going to be for existing owners?
> 
> Can some owners of high point weeks, Diamond, Plat, Gold, please tell me what will entice you to join the HPP?  What can Hyatt offer you, and you will pay for the privilege, of joining the new system.  I'm just curious, because we can already trade within Hyatt, if available, and if you are going with II, our points are already valuable.  Joining is not going to give preference in any other system, so Marriott, Hilton, Westin, etc aren't going to show up anymore than they do now in II.  I'm pretty sure cruise discounts won't be so high that everyone will suddenly be cruising.  I'm just confused and my head is starting to hurt.  Thanks!!



What would entice me to join a Hyatt Pure Points system?  Off the top of my head:

1.  The ability to book reservations now that I will have points for at the time of travel but don't yet have.
2.  The ability to combine points over multiple years.
3.  The ability to stay at new resorts that might be added.
4.  The ability to make reservations, change reservations, get guest certificates with less or no fees.
5.  The ability to book any number of nights starting on any check-in day.
6.  The ability to move points back out of Interval, or to exchange back into Hyatt properties through Interval (ideally with a Hyatt preference).
7.  The ability to use points moved into II farther into the future than 12 months.

Would I pay $40k for these privileges?  No.
$10k?  No.
$5k?  No.

But $500-$1000 to enroll my gold week, giving it up to the trust?  Maybe.  I'd think about it.  If I got all or most of those benefits.


----------



## lizap

heathpack said:


> What would entice me to join a Hyatt Pure Points system?  Off the top of my head:
> 
> 1.  The ability to book reservations now that I will have points for at the time of travel but don't yet have.
> 2.  The ability to combine points over multiple years.
> 3.  The ability to stay at new resorts that might be added.
> 4.  The ability to make reservations, change reservations, get guest certificates with less or no fees.
> 5.  The ability to book any number of nights starting on any check-in day.
> 6.  The ability to move points back out of Interval, or to exchange back into Hyatt properties through Interval (ideally with a Hyatt preference).
> 7.  The ability to use points moved into II farther into the future than 12 months.
> 
> Would I pay $40k for these privileges?  No.
> $10k?  No.
> $5k?  No.
> 
> But $500-$1000 to enroll my gold week, giving it up to the trust?  Maybe.  I'd think about it.  If I got all or most of those benefits.




Don't hold your breath for most of these.  As you know, Hyatt has a more quirky and restrictive system than Vistana.  However, the quality of resorts and unique locations make up for alot of this..


----------



## heathpack

lizap said:


> Don't hold your breath for most of these.  As you know, Hyatt has a more quirky and restrictive system than Vistana.  However, the quality of resorts and unique locations make up for alot of this..



The question was not "what changes do you think are likely?"

The question was "what would it take to entice you to join?"

Right?

My expectations are low, but Hyatt could absolutely come up with the best system out there if they so chose.  And if they did, I'd think about buying in.  That's what it would take.


----------



## sts1732

Cropman said:


> I'm waiting to see if I have to give up my week for good, or can I can pick and choose my year to give it up.  As a winter week owner at Sunset Harbor, it would be a deal breaker for me if I had to give up the week forever.  I want to use my week most years.  I would rather rent my week out and rent a week where I want to go, rather than give it up for good, or trade it within Hyatt's current system.  What huge incentive is there going to be for existing owners?
> 
> Can some owners of high point weeks, Diamond, Plat, Gold, please tell me what will entice you to join the HPP?  What can Hyatt offer you, and you will pay for the privilege, of joining the new system.  I'm just curious, because we can already trade within Hyatt, if available, and if you are going with II, our points are already valuable.  Joining is not going to give preference in any other system, so Marriott, Hilton, Westin, etc aren't going to show up anymore than they do now in II.  I'm pretty sure cruise discounts won't be so high that everyone will suddenly be cruising.  I'm just confused and my head is starting to hurt.  Thanks!!


As a deeded owner at Sunset during the week of the 4th.recently upgraded to plat. I can't think of any thing they could offer that would make me want to join (for any amount of money) the proposed as discussed here. There is no reason yet stated or proposed to give up the bird I have in my hand, for the two in the bush.


----------



## suzannesimon

sts1732 said:


> As a deeded owner at Sunset during the week of the 4th.recently upgraded to plat. I can't think of any thing they could offer that would make me want to join (for any amount of money) the proposed as discussed here. There is no reason yet stated or proposed to give up the bird I have in my hand, for the two in the bush.



However, if they did it like Marriott where you retain your deeded week and can trade it for points if you choose in any year, it would be worth it as long as the buy-in was less than $1,000.


----------



## sts1732

suzannesimon said:


> However, if they did it like Marriott where you retain your deeded week and can trade it for points if you choose in any year, it would be worth it as long as the buy-in was less than $1,000.


I can do all mentioned, except "any year", by borrowing, or using II for 3yrs.. Now if you mean letting the points accumulate yr. after yr. that still wouldn't do it. I have more now than I can use. How about NO MF's for as long as I own it, or paying me to join.


----------



## lizap

sts1732 said:


> I can do all mentioned, except "any year", by borrowing, or using II for 3yrs.. Now if you mean letting the points accumulate yr. after yr. that still wouldn't do it. I have more now than I can use. How about NO MF's for as long as I own it, or paying me to join.



Excellent point.  We already have a points-based system (unlike what Marriott had prior to the start of its points system)..


----------



## bdbrecheen

I thought I might jump on here and give an update as to what happened last weekend in San Antonio at Wild Oak Ranch. We decided to go for an "Owner Update" to see if the sales staff would be forthcoming regarding the upcoming points system. This is what we were told after I brought up the new point system. 
We were told that deeded property was the way to go and to buy it now before it is no longer available. He stated that those who utilize the point system will be paying much higher MF's than deeded owners with what they had been told. He said that because the points will be in a trust, there will be less people to cover the MF's so therefore the estimated cost was expected to be 1 1/2 times as much as a deeded owner will pay for the same amount of points. He stated that deeded property will never be available for use in the points system, it will be kept separate for the use of deeded owners. He went on to say that the delay in the program was due to the legal issues concerning deeded property and their owners.  It was then that we were told that we needed to upgrade to a Diamond week  NOW as we didn't have enough points to visit all the properties unrestricted and while we could still purchase deeded property. We have owned at Hyatt since 2004. We were told by the salesman at the time that the 1300 pts we bought were plenty for us to travel on and would get us a week in any of the resorts at that time.  When we bought our 2 bed unit, we had enough points to go to any of the resorts, including Carmel, of course not during the peak season, but we were fine with that. Since that time, it was Hyatt that changed up the point system that now keeps us from going to Carmel. The current salesman told us we should NEVER have been sold on the points, but on a deeded week. The salesman's  and his sales manager's solution was the following. They could offer me a float week in Carmel for 42K. Or they could offer me a 42K yearly deeded 2 bed at Wild Oak Ranch in their new building currently under construction. When my husband laughed and stood up to leave, they came up with their final offer~ a 2 bed in the "old building" we already own in for $27,500. The same amount of points, the same season, at the same resort, both 2 bedrooms and they wanted us to pay a 14,500 premium for the new building? My husband informed them we could do alot of traveling for 42K and that it wouldn't be with Hyatt.
I would be interested in hearing what some of you have recently been told when attending an owners update/ sales pitch. When they offered the unit in the "old" building it felt like they were trying to sell me a used car.  Hey Mr Salesman~ I already own in that building and it has served me well.


----------



## lizap

bdbrecheen said:


> I thought I might jump on here and give an update as to what happened last weekend in San Antonio at Wild Oak Ranch. We decided to go for an "Owner Update" to see if the sales staff would be forthcoming regarding the upcoming points system. This is what we were told after I brought up the new point system.
> We were told that deeded property was the way to go and to buy it now before it is no longer available. He stated that those who utilize the point system will be paying much higher MF's than deeded owners with what they had been told. He said that because the points will be in a trust, there will be less people to cover the MF's so therefore the estimated cost was expected to be 1 1/2 times as much as a deeded owner will pay for the same amount of points. He stated that deeded property will never be available for use in the points system, it will be kept separate for the use of deeded owners. He went on to say that the delay in the program was due to the legal issues concerning deeded property and their owners.  It was then that we were told that we needed to upgrade to a Diamond week  NOW as we didn't have enough points to visit all the properties unrestricted and while we could still purchase deeded property. We have owned at Hyatt since 2004. We were told by the salesman at the time that the 1300 pts we bought were plenty for us to travel on and would get us a week in any of the resorts at that time.  When we bought our 2 bed unit, we had enough points to go to any of the resorts, including Carmel, of course not during the peak season, but we were fine with that. Since that time, it was Hyatt that changed up the point system that now keeps us from going to Carmel. The current salesman told us we should NEVER have been sold on the points, but on a deeded week. The salesman's  and his sales manager's solution was the following. They could offer me a float week in Carmel for 42K. Or they could offer me a 42K yearly deeded 2 bed at Wild Oak Ranch in their new building currently under construction. When my husband laughed and stood up to leave, they came up with their final offer~ a 2 bed in the "old building" we already own in for $27,500. The same amount of points, the same season, at the same resort, both 2 bedrooms and they wanted us to pay a 14,500 premium for the new building? My husband informed them we could do alot of traveling for 42K and that it wouldn't be with Hyatt.
> I would be interested in hearing what some of you have recently been told when attending an owners update/ sales pitch. When they offered the unit in the "old" building it felt like they were trying to sell me a used car.  Hey Mr Salesman~ I already own in that building and it has served me well.




So, at least some of the new building will NOT be in the PPP program.  Interesting...


----------



## bdbrecheen

lizap said:


> So, at least some of the new building will NOT be in the PPP program.  Interesting...


Either that or it's just the old bait and switch to try and make that last offer more enticing.  Why would anybody spend more money for the same week, at the same property for the same amount of points?


----------



## Kal

bdbrecheen said:


> ...He stated that those who utilize the point system will be paying much higher MF's than deeded owners with what they had been told. He said that because the points will be in a trust, there will be less people to cover the MF's so therefore the estimated cost was expected to be 1 1/2 times as much as a deeded owner will pay for the same amount of points...


Interesting point.  If we use the scenario where there are numerous unsold inventory and Vistana properties in the PP pool and only a hand full of PP members, those members could be facing a large pro-rata share of the combined maintenance fees.  Having said that, the owners of the unsold inventory (developer) and Vistana would become PP members too and have to pay much larger M/Fs.


----------



## DAman

Kal said:


> Interesting point.  If we use the scenario where there are numerous unsold inventory and Vistana properties in the PP pool and only a hand full of PP members, those members could be facing a large pro-rata share of the combined maintenance fees.  Having said that, the owners of the unsold inventory (developer) and Vistana would become PP members too and have to pay M/Fs.



Of course it was a salesman talking.....

All of this is speculation and we won't know or be able to analyze all of the details until the PPP is formally rolled out.

I agree with Heathpack's points above about what would entice me to join the PPP.  

I am happy with the current system.  I would not be willing to pay much, if anything, to join PPP.  I would not expect them to lower fees and costs to make it worthwhile for me to enroll my weeks. I will review the new program and expect a full discussion here about it.

On another note.....I would expect Maui to be a big part of PPP. Hawaii is where most people want to travel. I think to entice people to purchase PPP they would have to have a chance to book there.


----------



## Kal

DAman said:


> ...I would expect Maui to be a big part of PPP. Hawaii is where most people want to travel. I think to entice people to purchase PPP they would have to have a chance to book there.


At the get go I thought Maui MUST be the drawing card for the PPP, but we learned Maui will stay in the legacy system.  Of course, if a legacy Maui owner wants to flip into the PPP, that would be one unit that is available.  The Maui developer partners have all kinds of options to manage their unsold inventory which could generate far more $$$ than dumping into the PPP.  As an example, think about multi-week buyers or even full year residency.   The partners could even withdraw their units from the residence club too.  My bet is the partners demanded that the property not go into the PPP.


----------



## nuwermj

alexadeparis said:


> Just wondering what that structure would actually look like. I believe that some of the other systems have exclusivity for a time with the "pure points" and then after a certain dibs period, any "points" can be used to book remaining available inventory.



Not Diamond Resorts. They maintain two inventory pools. Legacy owners can purchase access to the pure point pool, but otherwise the pools are completely separate. 

The problem for Legacy owners has been that, over time, their pool gets smaller and smaller.


----------



## nuwermj

SunandFun83 said:


> I own several Hyatt weeks and several Marriott weeks and Marriott points.  Marriott had two extremely important issues for the points program:
> 1.  owners paid to enroll weeks in points and gain the flexibility of the points system.
> 
> 2.  Only secondary market weeks purchased before June 2010 could enroll in points.  The weeks retain original week ownership, but, cannot exchange for points.
> 
> Hyatt might find a way to limit acc SS to PPP for weeks purchased after a certain date.  This date is likely tied to introduction of the PPP.  Seems like you want to buy a secondary market week sooner rather than later.



Diamond Resorts also allows legacy owners to buy into their point system. There is no restriction on when or how the unit was purchased. But Diamond requires the legacy owner to make a point purchase. If a unit is valued at, say 2,000 points, the owner must buy an additional 1,000 trust fund points. Then all 3,000 points have access to the points pool inventory and the legacy unit is added to the points pool inventory (but not owned by the trust fund).


----------



## nuwermj

Kal said:


> Interesting point.  If we use the scenario where there are numerous unsold inventory and Vistana properties in the PP pool and only a hand full of PP members, those members could be facing a large pro-rata share of the combined maintenance fees.  Having said that, the owners of the unsold inventory (developer) and Vistana would become PP members too and have to pay much larger M/Fs.



I don't think the PP members are responsible for the combined fees. When Hyatt deposits a deed into the trust fund, they become the owner of the points. Hyatt is then responsible for the fees on those points. And the Vistana properties will like be available under some kind of reciprocal exchange agreement. Similar to the way Wyndham and Worldmark members access to each other's inventory.


----------



## Kal

nuwermj said:


> I don't think the PP members are responsible for the combined fees. When Hyatt deposits a deed into the trust fund, they become the owner of the points. Hyatt is then responsible for the fees on those points. And the Vistana properties will like be available under some kind of reciprocal exchange agreement. Similar to the way Wyndham and Worldmark members access to each other's inventory.


So are you saying the PPP member contributes a Hyatt legacy unit to the PP Program plus whatever entrance fee is required and that's it?  No M/F from then on???  I don't think so.  There's still mandatory M/Fs on all the units in the PPP.  Who pays those M/F?


----------



## nuwermj

Kal said:


> So are you saying the PPP member contributes a Hyatt legacy unit to the PP Program plus whatever entrance fee is required and that's it?  No M/F from then on???  I don't think so.  There's still mandatory M/Fs on all the units in the PPP.  Who pays those M/F?



No, I didn't mean to say that. Say the trust fund owns 100 deeds; each valued at 2,000 points; and each with an annual MF payable to the HOA of $1,000. The trust fund owes the HOAs $100,000 and that amount is divided over 200,000 points, or $0.5 per point. If 25% of the points are unsold, Hyatt owns them and must pay $25,000 to the trust fund. Members pay the remaining $75,000 ($0.5 x 150,000pts.). Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## DAman

As I think about it I continue wonder what will draw people to purchase PPP....and what will entice current owners to deposit their weeks?  We have pondered this above.

If there is no Maui, and no reduction of reservation/cancellation fees, and increased MF or dues whatever they decide to call them, why would I purchase?  Why would I convert my deeded weeks?  I'm sure sales is trying to figure this out. 

They are messing with a system that works well for me.  Why corrupt the current system with an overlay?  Why don't they just build onto the current system?  They have a points system that with a few tweaks could accomplish what PPP is going to do(or what we speculate it is going to do). I see it as a money grab.


----------



## Cropman

DAman said:


> They are messing with a system that works well for me.  Why corrupt the current system with an overlay?  Why don't they just build onto the current system?  They have a points system that with a few tweaks could accomplish what PPP is going to do(or what we speculate it is going to do). *I see it as a money grab.*



Lol, ya think?  Hyatt is moving their sales center from Windward Pointe to Old Town in Key West.  They wouldn't be doing that without thinking this will bring in a great return on their money.

I agree, the system seems to work well for a lot of people.  So, Hyatt is going to, at first, have to design a program to get people to want to switch over to it.  And not only switch, but probably pay for the privilege to switch. Also, as has been said quite often, get people to give up their legacy weeks to the trust.

While I don't think people switching will happen a lot at first, I think Hyatt will force it later on.  My speculation is that Hyatt will not allow sold or transferred weeks to participate in the new trust.  As more and more weeks get forced/voluntarily transferred, it will kill the legacy program. 

We shall see what it brings.  Just wish we had a better idea so I could decide if I should buy another week or not.


----------



## nuwermj

DAman said:


> Why corrupt the current system with an overlay?  Why don't they just build onto the current system?



Whatever other reasons they may have, developer's like pure points systems because (1) it is easier to sell low demand intervals. Points backed by a blue week can be used for a red week reservation, and they are sold that way. Thus, all sales can be framed "red week" points and prime time tend to be over sold. (2) A given sales center (say a productive one) is not limited to inventory at that location. Each sales center can sell system wide inventory. (3) It is easier to sell partial weeks.


----------



## Kal

DAman said:


> ... I see it as a money grab.


OMG you're painting the timeshare industry as out for money, more money than what they can get from status quo.  Is that bordering on heresay??

The switch from weeks to points has been going on for the industry for many years.  That presents all kinds of opportunities to increase profits.  A favorite technique is to increase the number of points it takes to make a reservation (just like airline miles programs).  To overcome this, the mark (timeshare owners) must get more point$.

Hyatt is one of the very last to jump on this program as they already had a points program in place.  Now, how to they do this and be like the other guys?  Hyatt's answer was simple...bail out and let someone else try to make it work.  ILG said "I can do it".  But then came the drama of deeded properties.  And the demand for an extreme sales pitch.


----------



## lizap

Cropman said:


> Lol, ya think?  Hyatt is moving their sales center from Windward Pointe to Old Town in Key West.  They wouldn't be doing that without thinking this will bring in a great return on their money.
> 
> I agree, the system seems to work well for a lot of people.  So, Hyatt is going to, at first, have to design a program to get people to want to switch over to it.  And not only switch, but probably pay for the privilege to switch. Also, as has been said quite often, get people to give up their legacy weeks to the trust.
> 
> While I don't think people switching will happen a lot at first, I think Hyatt will force it later on.  My speculation is that Hyatt will not allow sold or transferred weeks to participate in the new trust.  As more and more weeks get forced/voluntarily transferred, it will kill the legacy program.
> 
> We shall see what it brings.  Just wish we had a better idea so I could decide if I should buy another week or not.




I disagree.  Hyatt (ILG) will find a way to entice current owners to buy into the new system without damaging the current system, perhaps with new resorts, new buildings, similar to what Vistana has done with FLEX.  I remember when there was all this speculation on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of FLEX, and so far, I have seen no impact on deeded owners.


----------



## Cropman

lizap said:


> I disagree.  Hyatt (ILG) will find a way to entice current owners to buy into the new system without damaging the current system, perhaps with new resorts, new buildings, similar to what Vistana has done with FLEX.  I remember when there was all this speculation on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of FLEX, and so far, I have seen no impact on deeded owners.



I hope you're right.  I guess I'm just cautious that it wil be both beneficial to owners and Hyatt/ILG.  It would be fantastic if you are correct.

Lizap, just out of curiosity, what has happened to resale prices with Vistana after FLEX?  Thanks!

JC


----------



## DAman

Kal said:


> OMG you're painting the timeshare industry as out for money, more money than what they can get from status quo.  Is that bordering on heresay??
> 
> The switch from weeks to points has been going on for the industry for many years.  That presents all kinds of opportunities to increase profits.  A favorite technique is to increase the number of points it takes to make a reservation (just like airline miles programs).  To overcome this, the mark (timeshare owners) must get more point$.
> 
> Hyatt is one of the very last to jump on this program as they already had a points program in place.  Now, how to they do this and be like the other guys?  Hyatt's answer was simple...bail out and let someone else try to make it work.  ILG said "I can do it".  But then came the drama of deeded properties.  And the demand for an extreme sales pitch.



How will they get current owners to switch? And pay $$ to do it? With higher fees?  I don't see myself going for the PPP sales pitch(but I don't respond to requests to attend "owner updates" anymore).

How do they sell to new people(since current owners theoretically can get Maui with current system) without Maui?

I'm also waiting for Marriott type junk fees for the resale of points.

I know I'm shocked that this industry would try a money grab....I thought Hyatt was above it.

I'm off to Pinon Pointe next week. I may have to go to an "update" to ask PPP questions.


----------



## lizap

Cropman said:


> I hope you're right.  I guess I'm just cautious that it wil be both beneficial to owners and Hyatt/ILG.  It would be fantastic if you are correct.
> 
> Lizap, just out of curiosity, what has happened to resale prices with Vistana after FLEX?  Thanks!
> 
> JC




If anything, our WKV 2 BR plat. has increased in value a little..


----------



## youppi

DAman said:


> I know I'm shocked that this industry would try a money grab....I thought Hyatt was above it.


Don't forget that Hyatt has been sold to ILG and ILG must recover their money and also make more money for their shareholders.
ILG is the mother of II and remember how II has introduced the upgrade fee last year for week exchanger and also how much higher are now many Getaways on II since the purchase of Hyatt and VSE by ILG.


----------



## taffy19

youppi said:


> Don't forget that Hyatt has been sold to ILG and ILG must recover their money and also make more money for their shareholders.
> ILG is the mother of II and remember how II has introduced the upgrade fee last year for week exchanger and also how much higher are now many Getaways on II since the purchase of Hyatt and VSE by ILG.


The upgrade fees may be there to entice you to go over to the new PP program and you will no longer have all the other fees.

Marriott did this and this enticed many people but we were not required to give up our deed.  I would never do that but I believe that I read this here.  It may have been salesman talk.

There may be a yearly fee to belong to this program and a fee to join it.  Marriott did that too but it was a wash because they gave you points to use within a certain time.

There is supposed to be an improvement and I still believe that we may be able to use other hotel brands as well if they affiliate themselves with ILG and even with a competitor (RCI) too so the Hilton and Disney are part of it too and there may be more highly desirable resorts or locations to choose from.

If it is really true that a requirement is to give up your deed then I can see that some States do not agree to that and there are legal hurdles so a delay.  I read here that AZ, CA and Hi were mentioned.

How many people will want to do this if they bought a high season and view and for mainly using the resort, I wonder? Not me if giving up the deed was a requirement.


----------



## planzfortomorrow

All of this speculation is very interesting.  I've also pondered what would entice me to join a pure points program.  I have wyndam as well, and it's extremely flexible, so a similar points system would be enticing.  I WOULD be interested if some of the items someone listed above were included-mostly, the ability to combine points, to stay at new resorts (or different ILG resorts), the ability to book less than or more than a week, and/or have a different start day.

How much would I pay for this?  Honestly, not much.  Less than $1,500-and I'd really have to think about it with that price.  And I'd REFUSE if I had to give up my deeded week to participate.  And it's only a silver week!!!  Like others, I don't know what you could do to have someone give over a premium deeded week.  I've been thinking of the possible changes, and ultimately, I picked this week as it works with both school & work schedules.  I had to wait over 3 years to find one I wanted at a price I was willing to pay.  To give up that certainty for some uncertain week-and to pay for that uncertainty?  Nope.  Do I think that Hyatt would even offer such benefits for such a low price?  Nope. 

If the points program is just the best thing since sliced bread...then I will probably be able to buy those points on the resale market in a few years--this was what happened with Wyndham--it was cheaper to buy points than to take your deeded week & convert to points.  Right now I've got more timeshare than vacation time anyway.  And if I do need to trade, and it's no longer favorable to trade in the Hyatt system because of dwindling choices?  I'll still have the option to use II or RCI or whatever independent exchange system.    So ultimately, I don't think the pure points system will matter much to me.

For everyone who mainly bought their Hyatt unit to trade, they might think differently.


----------



## Kal

At a recent owners update meeting, Hyatt indicated the PPP might be similar to the Marriott program.  Members with more points get an advantage over others who own fewer points.  One advantage would be where you have priority in reserving a PPP unit.  The pool might open to a high points owner a month or two before it opens to a lower point owner.  The bottom line is to pressure existing and new PPP members to purchase more and more pure points.  Hmmmmm, sounds like a slick sales trick (as always).


----------



## dahntahn

Attended the sales presentation yesterday at Coconut Plantation where they have just reopened the newly renovated old sales center, since we were offered a $100 credit on our bill to attend.  Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market.  Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.
The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt.  He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years.  I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid.  He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000.  When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.
He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers.  ( We are not interested in selling.)
We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details.  He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share.  He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.
 The new building # 4 at Coconut that is to be started in the next couple of months and the new construction at Wild Oak will be sold only through the new points trust ( no deeded weeks.). He agreed with Kal that now is the time to buy a deeded week if you can find one and get past ROFR.  He also thought that resale prices of high point weeks will rise as Hyatt competes with resale buyers for deeded weeks.
The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed.  It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here.  Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.


----------



## WalnutBaron

dahntahn said:


> Attended the sales presentation yesterday at Coconut Plantation where they have just reopened the newly renovated old sales center, since we were offered a $100 credit on our bill to attend.  Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market.  Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.
> The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt.  He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years.  I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid.  He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000.  When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.
> He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers.  ( We are not interested in selling.)
> We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details.  He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share.  He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.
> The new building # 4 at Coconut that is to be started in the next couple of months and the new construction at Wild Oak will be sold only through the new points trust ( no deeded weeks.). He agreed with Kal that now is the time to buy a deeded week if you can find one and get past ROFR.  He also thought that resale prices of high point weeks will rise as Hyatt competes with resale buyers for deeded weeks.
> The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed.  It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here.  Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.



Great post, dahntahn, and welcome to TUG! A few thoughts: 1) I completely agree that now is the time to buy resale if anyone is on the fence and thinking about it, for two reasons: a) Hyatt's desire for buying back weeks to place into the Pure Points trust is going to drive demand, especially for desirable weeks and could mean prices for resales will start to rise (in fact, they are already modestly rising for Diamond and Platinum weeks at the more popular resorts); b) once the Pure Points Program is firmly in place nationally, getting resale purchases through the ROFR process is going to be increasingly difficult; 2) as has been mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, ILG is having a heck of a time fine-tuning their program to create enough incentive for legacy owners to be willing to convert their fixed weeks to the PPP, as is evidenced by the delay in launching from late March to sometime in July--maybe; 3) I think legacy owners like you and me are going to be in the catbird seat once the PPP is fully in place. Expect unsolicited offers from ILG to purchase our weeks, and increasingly attractive incentives to get us to convert. Owners will be making their own decisions, but--as for me--I cannot even imagine selling or converting, as I own at two properties I love--Carmel and Sedona; 4) I love your handle name! Let me know the next time you're in dahntahn Pittsburgh and I'll red up the hahs for you.


----------



## Kal

It clearly appears that Hyatt recognizes it will be very difficult to get legacy owners to join the PPP.  It will take some serious Hyatt cash to buy the legacy units.  As I see it, the major flaw in the PPP is the partial roll out in Florida while the rest of the nation is legacy business as always.  A person could still purchase a unit-week elsewhere, but the price will most likely be higher than now.  The multi-tier of PPP ownership is definitely not an incentive for legacy owners with limited points to buy in.


----------



## DazedandConfused

Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?


----------



## lizap

DazedandConfused said:


> Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?



No. This is all speculation at this point.  I remember over on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of Sheraton Flex all the speculation about the potential adverse effects of Sheraton Flex.  So far, no impact whatsoever, as far as I can tell...


----------



## Cropman

DazedandConfused said:


> Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?


Unfortunately, not yet.  Right now there is a lot of speculation and educated guesses.  

JC


----------



## WalnutBaron

DazedandConfused said:


> Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?



Suffice to say that whatever it is, there is little to zero chance that current HRC owners will benefit. It's also a very safe bet that those who buy into the PPP are going to get less for more.


----------



## bdh

dahntahn said:


> Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market.  Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.



Hyatt revised their position on excluding resale buyers from owner updates 2+ years ago - no doubt when sales of weeks slowed over the previous 5 years, they realized they'd be better off not excluding any HRC owner as everyone's money is green.



dahntahn said:


> The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt.  He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years.  I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid.  He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000.  When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.



Have never met an HRC sales person that was high pressure or a total con man.  The biggest and most frequent non-truth is that Hyatt is buying every week that comes across their plate via ROFR.  As prices go, the $19K for 2000 pts is a big discount relative to their previous developer prices - no doubt its high compared to what 2000 pts goes for on the open resale market right now (saw a WP 2200 pt week for $6500 last week).  Since they will no longer be selling deeds mid-summer this year, the $41K will be the price point for a 7 day stay when the PPP is rolled out.



dahntahn said:


> He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers.



This would be a big change for Hyatt as they have never offered to buy back weeks via a direct owner offer/request - they would ONLY buy back via ROFR.  You'd have to believe Hyatt would be selective (and short armed) about which properties/weeks/price - expect BH, WP and SH weeks would be toward the top of their list due to the popularity of KW these days.  



dahntahn said:


> We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details.  He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share.  He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.



The sales staff training was suppose be Feb 20 and they would start the PPP sales on Feb 21.  However when the PPP roll out was delayed due to legal issues, the sales training was pushed back as well.  As long as the two buckets of weeks (legacy and PPP) are separate, there isn't much a threat to current deeded week owners internal exchange opportunities.  There is no doubt there will be tiers of perks relative to amount of points owned.  When you look at the change from the Gold Passport program to the World of Hyatt program, that's exactly what happened 3 weeks ago on its roll out - the higher your point total, the more/better the perks are.  



dahntahn said:


> The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed.  It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here.  Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.



14 total buildings at CP is overly ambitious and most likely wrong.  There is no way the PPP will be that successful and also no way there's enough on site features/pools to support that many units.  Expect the campus model is the old one before they found the eagle nest 10+ years ago that shut down the construction of additional buildings.


Shifting gears:  As far as getting current HRC owners to consider the PPP - what if HRC allowed a deeded owner to enroll their deeded week in the PPP for a small fee (say $1K).  The deeded owner could keep their deeded week and toggle back and forth between the legacy week product and the PPP product on a year to year basis.  Would you do it to have access to the other PPP properties owned by ILG (ie: Sheraton which is now Vistana) and have more flexibility as to shorter stays and different check in dates than Sat or Sun?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

If they are basing it on the Marriott program, what did they charge them to join the points program. A while back at an owners update they were going to charge an outrageous amount just to change a resale week to be eligible for hotel points. I am imagining the fee to join PP  to be something ridiculous.


----------



## bdh

Tucson traveler said:


> If they are basing it on the Marriott program, what did they charge them to join the points program. A while back at an owners update they were going to charge an outrageous amount just to change a resale week to be eligible for hotel points. I am imagining the fee to join PP  to be something ridiculous.




Not a Marriott man, but I believe it was $600 per week to enroll in the Pts Program - will defer to Team Marriott for confirmation.


----------



## lizap

If I could toggle back and forth between the PPP and legacy products at will, then I'm very interested...


----------



## nuwermj

Tucson traveler said:


> If they are basing it on the Marriott program, what did they charge them to join the points program. A while back at an owners update they were going to charge an outrageous amount just to change a resale week to be eligible for hotel points. I am imagining the fee to join PP  to be something ridiculous.



I found this information in other threads here on TUG:

Marriott does not allow resales bought outside of their resales department to be eligible for enrollment into the Destination Club by buying matching trust points. If you buy a week from their resales dept, that week can be enrolled into DC by buying matching trust points.

As of 6/14/12 the Enrollment Fee has been increased to $2,395. Enrollment incentives include varying amounts of one-time "PlusPoints" which expire one year from date of issue and are restricted to reservations made within 60 days of check-in at Marriott Vacation Club Collection properties only.

For historical context, the Enrollment Fee at the DC introduction ranged between $595 and $1,995 with an Enrollment Incentive of 800 one-time Exchange Points.


----------



## dahntahn

WalnutBaron said:


> Great post, dahntahn, and welcome to TUG! A few thoughts: 1) I completely agree that now is the time to buy resale if anyone is on the fence and thinking about it, for two reasons: a) Hyatt's desire for buying back weeks to place into the Pure Points trust is going to drive demand, especially for desirable weeks and could mean prices for resales will start to rise (in fact, they are already modestly rising for Diamond and Platinum weeks at the more popular resorts); b) once the Pure Points Program is firmly in place nationally, getting resale purchases through the ROFR process is going to be increasingly difficult; 2) as has been mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, ILG is having a heck of a time fine-tuning their program to create enough incentive for legacy owners to be willing to convert their fixed weeks to the PPP, as is evidenced by the delay in launching from late March to sometime in July--maybe; 3) I think legacy owners like you and me are going to be in the catbird seat once the PPP is fully in place. Expect unsolicited offers from ILG to purchase our weeks, and increasingly attractive incentives to get us to convert. Owners will be making their own decisions, but--as for me--I cannot even imagine selling or converting, as I own at two properties I love--Carmel and Sedona; 4) I love your handle name! Let me know the next time you're in dahntahn Pittsburgh and I'll red up the hahs for you.


When yinz come to the Burgh, bring your gum bands and pop, but watch out for Jagger bushes.  We'll go get some Primanti's n'at, or some pierogies.  Be sure to check if Kennywood is open, and don't get yer gutchies  in a knot!


----------



## WalnutBaron

dahntahn said:


> When yinz come to the Burgh, bring your gum bands and pop, but watch out for Jagger bushes.  We'll go get some Primanti's n'at, or some pierogies.  Be sure to check if Kennywood is open, and don't get yer gutchies  in a knot!



Yer on! Primanti's--the originator of the french fries stuffed on top of your cole slaw which is stuffed on top of your cheesesteak sandwich. What a tahn.


----------



## lizap

lizap said:


> If I could toggle back and forth between the PPP and legacy products at will, then I'm very interested...




I wasn't really serious, but maybe this might have merit?  Current deeded owners would pay a small initial fee to elect to be able to use either the PPP system or the current system.  They would then choose whether to use the PPP system or the current system at the time of making the reservation.  If you are a deeded owner, there would likely be another fee for using the PPP system when you make the reservation.  This would likely open up units for the PPP system and give II additional revenue.  Kal, would this work?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Im assuming that as resale owners we will be locked out of getti g into PP so it is probably a moot point. I would never give up my deeded weeks . While I have never used them as I love internal trading they are both weeks that Id be happy to use if push came to shove.


----------



## bdh

Tucson traveler said:


> I'm assuming that as resale owners we will be locked out of getting into PP so it is probably a moot point. .



I bet $1.00 that resale owners can play in the PPP games.


----------



## Kal

lizap said:


> I wasn't really serious, but maybe this might have merit?  Current deeded owners would pay a small initial fee to elect to be able to use either the PPP system or the current system.  They would then choose whether to use the PPP system or the current system at the time of making the reservation.  If you are a deeded owner, there would likely be another fee for using the PPP system when you make the reservation.  This would likely open up units for the PPP system and give II additional revenue.  Kal, would this work?


I don't see a path where a legacy owner can go back and forth.  It would be a nightmare to confirm a PPP reservation.  "Now you see it, now you don't".  Then too, what MF would a legacy owner pay.  A prorated fee when in the PPP, and then how do you calculate the fee and period when in legacy.  Also, can't combine legacy points to actually reserve various periods of stay.  Slide one legacy unit into PPP would put you at the bottom tier of priority and probably couldn't get a reservation anyway.

It really makes me want to soothe my frontal cortex with a tall one.


----------



## WalnutBaron

Kal said:


> I don't see a path where a legacy owner can go back and forth.  It would be a nightmare to confirm a PPP reservation.  "Now you see it, now you don't".  Then too, what MF would a legacy owner pay.  A prorated fee when in the PPP, and then how do you calculate the fee and period when in legacy.  Also, can't combine legacy points to actually reserve various periods of stay.  Slide one legacy unit into PPP would put you at the bottom tier of priority and probably couldn't get a reservation anyway.
> 
> It really makes me want to soothe my frontal cortex with a tall one.



That's my assumption as well. The PPP Trust will be distinct and different from the HRC Trust--and you will own in one or the other (or both, if you buy into both). My sense is that HRC will be of much greater value to owners over the next 10 years or so, but eventually may decline because ILG is putting all of their future development marbles and investment into PPP. The legacy resorts--which are beautifully-maintained and updated now--will require vigilant oversight by future owners' boards to ensure their resorts continue to receive those updates through MF reserves or special assessments. ILG's focus will be on the development of PPP properties and their focus is going to be there, not on the HRC system. Regardless, I plan to ride the HRC wave for many years to come. The touted "flexibility" of PPP is of little interest to me, as I find there is plenty of flexibility within the HRC system.


----------



## bdh

Kal said:


> I don't see a path where a legacy owner can go back and forth.  It would be a nightmare to confirm a PPP reservation.  "Now you see it, now you don't".  Then too, what MF would a legacy owner pay.  A prorated fee when in the PPP, and then how do you calculate the fee and period when in legacy.  Also, can't combine legacy points to actually reserve various periods of stay.  Slide one legacy unit into PPP would put you at the bottom tier of priority and probably couldn't get a reservation anyway.
> 
> It really makes me want to soothe my frontal cortex with a tall one.



So you're saying you'd rather have a "bottle in front of me" than a "frontal lobotomy"?  I'll drink to that with you at Virgilios. 

No doubt the delay in the PPP role out has given the Hyatt world too much to time to speculate.


----------



## Kal

bdh said:


> So you're saying you'd rather have a "bottle in front of me" than a "frontal lobotomy"?  I'll drink to that with you at Virgilios.
> 
> No doubt the delay in the PPP role out has given the Hyatt world too much to time to speculate.


Order up!!


----------



## Cropman

Kal said:


> I don't see a path where a legacy owner can go back and forth.  It would be a nightmare to confirm a PPP reservation.  "Now you see it, now you don't".  Then too, what MF would a legacy owner pay.  A prorated fee when in the PPP, and then how do you calculate the fee and period when in legacy.  Also, can't combine legacy points to actually reserve various periods of stay.  Slide one legacy unit into PPP would put you at the bottom tier of priority and probably couldn't get a reservation anyway.
> 
> It really makes me want to soothe my frontal cortex with a tall one.



Just playing devil's advocate here.  What MF would a legacy owner pay?  Their current resort MF, nothing would change.  The PP owners would pay whatever MF is determined by Hyatt/ILG to cover the PP owned weeks.  

The path to go back and forth? Legacy owners would pay a fee, say something like $139 for the year, for the privilege of having access To PP.  They would deposit their unit for the year into PP, which allows PP owners access to that legacy week.  Legacy owners would get credit/points/trade value in PP for the year, and thus be able to use PP.  This way legacy owners could pick and choose which year they would like to utilize PP without giving up ownership of the deeded week.  Hyatt and PP owners would have access to more legacy weeks.  I think something like this could possibly entice owners, at least some of the time while still maintaining control.

This is just a general overview as how a system could work.  The details would be very important , like how far in advance would legacy owners have to deposit into PP, would they be able to see availability right away and so on.  I think there are possibilities here but my two main questions for the system would be cost to legacy owners and do we still retain control of our week?  Costs too high?  I'm out.  Give up my week, for good?  Never.

Just my thoughts.  

JC


----------



## pacman777

I've read the info on Kals page and found it very useful. I'm a Vistana/Starwood owner but I'm still not a HGVC owner but looking to be soon. Understanding the internal exchange systems work very differently between the two systems, I was wondering if there was an advantage or disadvantage of owning a deeded week that is either 51 or 52 at a non-ski resort that I intend to use to reserve at other Hyatt timeshares using club points. For example if I usually take extended vacations during the summer months of June and July does it matter when the deeded week is?


----------



## WalnutBaron

pacman777 said:


> I've read the info on Kals page and found it very useful. I'm a Vistana/Starwood owner but I'm still not a HGVC owner but looking to be soon. Understanding the internal exchange systems work very differently between the two systems, I was wondering if there was an advantage or disadvantage of owning a deeded week that is either 51 or 52 at a non-ski resort that I intend to use to reserve at other Hyatt timeshares using club points. For example if I usually take extended vacations during the summer months of June and July does it matter when the deeded week is?



No. It matters not if you choose to use your ownership via the points program within HRC to reserve a unit at another HRC property. The only advantage you'll have with a Week 51 or 52 is that they are considered Diamond season, thereby giving you another 200 HRC points to work with.


----------



## Kal

y





pacman777 said:


> I've read the info on Kals page and found it very useful. I'm a Vistana/Starwood owner but I'm still not a HGVC owner but looking to be soon. Understanding the internal exchange systems work very differently between the two systems, I was wondering if there was an advantage or disadvantage of owning a deeded week that is either 51 or 52 at a non-ski resort that I intend to use to reserve at other Hyatt timeshares using club points. For example if I usually take extended vacations during the summer months of June and July does it matter when the deeded week is?


The key to what week to own is when the CUP points will be active in the account.  As a minimum the points need to be in your account when the target units are released.  That occurs 6 months prior to the first day of occupancy.  So if you are looking to book a week starting on July 1st, the points need to be in your account before Dec. 31st.  Do some "what if" planning and see how it will best work for you.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Kal said:


> y
> The key to what week to own is when the CUP points will be active in the account.  As a minimum the points need to be in your account when the target units are released.  That occurs 6 months prior to the first day of occupancy.  So if you are looking to book a week starting on July 1st, the points need to be in your account before Dec. 31st.  Do some "what if" planning and see how it will best work for you.


----------



## ResaleExpert

You can make requests one year in advance and it is possible for a week to open up that early.  This happens when an owner trades their fixed week to either World Of Hyatt hotel points (developer bought option only) or Interval or another Hyatt resort.  This frees up their week to be provided to the earliest person on the list.  Most buyers decide to purchase either the fixed week to occupy Or the amount of points they want typically for the lowest price and lowest dues.  There is a bit more variability now as Hyatt began buying back select weeks almost one year ago vs. never buying back ANY of my resales for over 10 years!


----------



## ResaleExpert

ResaleExpert said:


> You can make requests one year in advance and it is possible for a week to open up that early.  This happens when an owner trades their fixed week to either World Of Hyatt hotel points (developer bought option only) or Interval or another Hyatt resort.  This frees up their week to be provided to the earliest person on the list.  Most buyers decide to purchase either the fixed week to occupy Or the amount of points they want typically for the lowest price and lowest dues.  There is a bit more variability now as Hyatt began buying back select weeks almost one year ago vs. never buying back ANY of my resales for over 10 years!


----------



## ResaleExpert

Just a note that HGVC refers to Hilton Grand Vacation Club vs HRC is Hyatt Residence Club.
Also, many of the very high demand weeks / seasons are far more difficult to get in to as owners will either use their weeks or often rent them out (Maui almost anytime or High Sierra Lodge July & August for example).  The rental income in these cases has more value than a trade.


----------



## pacman777

Thank you Walnut Baron, Kal and ResaleExpert for your input and detailed information on "HRC" point usage! Very helpful! I wish there was a way to see availability for the different HRC resorts for trading in by points without actually having an account, but was wondering if anyone can post past experiences on being able to trade in via HRC points into the Beaver Creek resorts for a week during the summer.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Your question on trading into Beaver Creek in summer is one of the aspects of timeshares that is difficult to answer.  IF you request one year ahead, if you are flexible on exact weeks, If you are open to unit size (2 br. , 1 br. , studio) THEN you should have a very good chance to trade in.  ALSO, Hyatt does trade to the first request and full weeks are prioritized, so you may want to make multiple requests one year ahead.  Bill


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

ResaleExpert said:


> Your question on trading into Beaver Creek in summer is one of the aspects of timeshares that is difficult to answer.  IF you request one year ahead, if you are flexible on exact weeks, If you are open to unit size (2 br. , 1 br. , studio) THEN you should have a very good chance to trade in.  ALSO, Hyatt does trade to the first request and full weeks are prioritized, so you may want to make multiple requests one year ahead.  Bill


Not sure full weeks are prioritized.  I was told it's all but date of request for waitlist


----------



## ResaleExpert

Could be true now; not entirely sure but when I was a sales executive for Hyatt (last agent on site to sell out High Sierra Lodge) this was in the contract.  I'd suggest checking for this aspect if you were to be thinking of using less than full weeks.  Bill


----------



## WalnutBaron

ResaleExpert said:


> Could be true now; not entirely sure but when I was a sales executive for Hyatt (last agent on site to sell out High Sierra Lodge) this was in the contract.  I'd suggest checking for this aspect if you were to be thinking of using less than full weeks.  Bill



Oh Bill, you should never have mentioned that you were once a sales exec for HRC! My brain is swirling with all of the questions I want to ask! In any case, welcome to TUG. Glad to have you.


----------



## ResaleExpert

I'm here to be of service!  FYI, it's been over 10 years since we sold this resort out and I've specialized in ALL Hyatt resales since.  I do also handle other premium timeshares, but Hyatt is by far my majority. Thanks, Bill


----------



## Kal

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Not sure full weeks are prioritized.  I was told it's all but date of request for waitlist


Partial weeks operate on a different approach.  They can't just break up a full week just because a short week is up next on the wait list.  There needs to be a match for it to be confirmed.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Thanks Kal. We may have spoken to a newbie when we called Hyatt. Now I feel  extremely lucky we got a 4 day midway in Maui from the wait list.


----------



## Kal

What week and unit size did you get?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

end of May 1 bedroom


----------



## melroseman

dahntahn said:


> Attended the sales presentation yesterday at Coconut Plantation where they have just reopened the newly renovated old sales center, since we were offered a $100 credit on our bill to attend.  Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market.  Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.
> The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt.  He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years.  I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid.  He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000.  When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.
> He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers.  ( We are not interested in selling.)
> We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details.  He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share.  He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.
> The new building # 4 at Coconut that is to be started in the next couple of months and the new construction at Wild Oak will be sold only through the new points trust ( no deeded weeks.). He agreed with Kal that now is the time to buy a deeded week if you can find one and get past ROFR.  He also thought that resale prices of high point weeks will rise as Hyatt competes with resale buyers for deeded weeks.
> The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed.  It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here.  Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.



We love Coconut Plantation tho we don't own there, and plan a visit next year.  Any idea how disruptive the construction on building 4 will be, and when it will be completed?  Using our Marriotts as an example...and even Hyatt Ka'anapali, newly constructed units generally means lots of available inventory until sales catches up. The 14 buildings has been the plan for years, but I agree if it happens at all it won't be for a long, long time.  I think Marriott has all but scrapped its plans for several more buildings at Lakeshore Reserve, which is an awesome resort, and is focusing on the "Pulse" urban hotel-like units.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Glad to hear you had a professional Salesperson. Interesting to hear them quote a number like $41,000 but not have been informed by Hyatt yet. 
Hyatt is buying back far more Key West weeks than Coconut Plantation weeks. I did hear from a Hyatt Corporate Executive that the new Coconut and Wild Oak buildings are specifically for their new points based program. 
While there is no way to know what will happen to resale prices my bet is Diamond and Platinum 2 br. will be the strongest due to the highest demand for occupancy. 
Lower seasons will be more like me commodities in that lowest price will have a chance to be sold. 
Further advantage for deeded weeks is that any season (now) has equal dues- another advantage for 2,000 and 2,200 point weeks. Points programs usually have dues based on # if points so will likely be much higher dues for 2,000 and 2,200 points. 
There are still some very good high season buys at all Florida resorts but inventories are decreasing


----------



## dagger1

ResaleExpert said:


> Glad to hear you had a professional Salesperson. Interesting to hear them quote a number like $41,000 but not have been informed by Hyatt yet.
> Hyatt is buying back far more Key West weeks than Coconut Plantation weeks. I did hear from a Hyatt Corporate Executive that the new Coconut and Wild Oak buildings are specifically for their new points based program.
> While there is no way to know what will happen to resale prices my bet is Diamond and Platinum 2 br. will be the strongest due to the highest demand for occupancy.
> Lower seasons will be more like me commodities in that lowest price will have a chance to be sold.
> Further advantage for deeded weeks is that any season (now) has equal dues- another advantage for 2,000 and 2,200 point weeks. Points programs usually have dues based on # if points so will likely be much higher dues for 2,000 and 2,200 points.
> There are still some very good high season buys at all Florida resorts but inventories are decreasing


A Wild Oak 2,200 point (floating)  just sold on eBay for $3651 plus $1101 2017 MF's (less than a deeded week) plus $650 transfer = $5402.00.  Someone got a great deal. Wonder why MF's are so low on Points program?


----------



## WalnutBaron

dagger1 said:


> A Wild Oak 2,200 point (floating)  just sold on eBay for $3651 plus $1101 2017 MF's (less than a deeded week) plus $650 transfer = $5402.00.  Someone got a great deal. Wonder why MF's are so low on Points program?



But the real question is--will it pass ROFR?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

WalnutBaron said:


> But the real question is--will it pass ROFR?


I didn't realize that floating  weeks existed through Hyatt


----------



## Pathways

dagger1 said:


> Wonder why MF's are so low on Points program?



Remember, this is a 'week' sale, not points. The points program roll out is still in the future


----------



## Pathways

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I didn't realize that floating  weeks existed through Hyatt




While only a small percentage, yes, there are floating weeks sold at a few resorts, in specific seasons only.  (I don't know if there is a list anywhere which details where these have been sold)


----------



## dagger1

The eBay listing specifically said "floating", no deeded week/unit was mentioned.  It said these points could be used at any Hyatt resort.  I didn't know the "points" system was already implemented.  I think possible the MF quoted did not include the annual property tax...


----------



## VegasBella

dagger1 said:


> The eBay listing specifically said "floating", no deeded week/unit was mentioned.  It said these points could be used at any Hyatt resort.  I didn't know the "points" system was already implemented.  I think possible the MF quoted did not include the annual property tax...



The term "floating" generally applies to weeks not points. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pathways

Just looked at sold Hyatt listings and found one that matches (WOR, 2200, no week mentioned) but I can't find where it says 'floating'.

Also checked feedback - very strange (and similar)

Note item location:  Sevierville!!!!!!

Are our old friends back in business?


----------



## Pathways

Maybe the week wasn't listed because........gee, maybe it doesn't exist?


----------



## DazedandConfused

I personally find lots of mis-advertised timeshare ads out there that may be done that way on purpose or just plain lazy or ingnorance


----------



## dagger1

Pathways said:


> Just looked at sold Hyatt listings and found one that matches (WOR, 2200, no week mentioned) but I can't find where it says 'floating'.
> 
> Also checked feedback - very strange (and similar)
> 
> Note item location:  Sevierville!!!!!!
> 
> Are our old friends back in business?


Yes, you are right, it doesn't say "floating", just points that can be used at  any Hyatt resort.  The seller is someone called S.I.T.E..  Looks like they want to handle the closing and transfer, which means they hold the money in escrow... When I buy, I generally like to pick the closing/transfer agent.


----------



## pacman777

dagger1 said:


> Yes, you are right, it doesn't say "floating", just points that can be used at  any Hyatt resort.  The seller is someone called S.I.T.E..  Looks like they want to handle the closing and transfer, which means they hold the money in escrow... When I buy, I generally like to pick the closing/transfer agent.



There is no way that will pass ROFR. Buyer is going to have deposit money locked up in escrow for at least a few months which won't even result in them getting the timeshare. Hyatt recently bought back annual 2200 point Wild Oak Ranch for $10k that I tried to purchase.


----------



## Kal

Often there are Hyatt listings where the unit is described as "floating".  My guess is the owner always uses the points to reserve where ever is desired, thus it's floating.  In those cases the actual owned unit/week is probably so poor it's never used or the seller didn't want to discourage potential buyers.

Some resorts have floating days associated with the owned unit/week.  It would be pretty difficult to sell just the floating days as there is no deeded unit to anchor the sale.


----------



## WalnutBaron

To the dagger1: may I offer a polite suggestion? Your inquiry today about the pending sale of this particular unit is interesting, but it deserves its own thread. And since your inquiry has nothing to do with the Hyatt Pure Points Program, it muddles the clarity of the discussion--both for your particular inquiry as well as for *real *information about the HPPP, whenever that program is finally announced and implemented, which should happen sometime this summer.

Thanks for considering my thoughts on this.


----------



## dagger1

WalnutBaron said:


> To the dagger1: may I offer a polite suggestion? Your inquiry today about the pending sale of this particular unit is interesting, but it deserves its own thread. And since your inquiry has nothing to do with the Hyatt Pure Points Program, it muddles the clarity of the discussion--both for your particular inquiry as well as for *real *information about the HPPP, whenever that program is finally announced and implemented, which should happen sometime this summer.
> 
> Thanks for considering my thoughts on this.


I posted the eBay Hyatt "points" sale because I thought it had something to do with the HPPP and in response to ResaleExpert's comment about dues associated with points in the post directly above my first post.  I did not know that Hyatt already sold purely points packages, thought they only sold deeded weeks/units.  I didn't mean to muddle the clarity of this thread, sorry if the post confused anyone.


----------



## WalnutBaron

dagger1 said:


> I posted the eBay Hyatt "points" sale because I thought it had something to do with the HPPP.  I did not know that Hyatt already sold purely points packages, that they only sold deeded weeks/units.  I didn't mean to muddle the clarity of this thread, sorry if the post confused you.


Thanks for your understanding. It's not a big deal--just something that's considered good manners here at TUG. And thanks for all your inquiries, questions, and posts on Hyatt!


----------



## dagger1

WalnutBaron said:


> Thanks for your understanding. It's not a big deal--just something that's considered good manners here at TUG. And thanks for all your inquiries, questions, and posts on Hyatt!


Completely understand, thanks for monitoring...  I am new to Hyatt and still don't really understand the deeded system, the points system, and now the new HPPS...


----------



## taffy19

Pathways said:


> While only a small percentage, yes, there are floating weeks sold at a few resorts, in specific seasons only.  (I don't know if there is a list anywhere which details where these have been sold)


We we were in Carmel in May 2014 and attended a sales presentation.  I remember that they offered us our unit because we liked our view from the 1 BR condo #318 but the week was floating.  It was called Platinum and not Diamond.  It was definitely not a fixed week as I was so surprised to hear this.

It must have been fall season or an in between season because we could never go to Carmel from December to mid April and the summer weeks were Platinum or holiday weeks.

I am positive that it was a deeded week.  I wonder how they are selling the left-over weeks now at this resort?  I still have all the notes from the presentation.


----------



## Sapper

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I didn't realize that floating  weeks existed through Hyatt



Not a float week, it was week 28.


----------



## stover33

Tucsonadventurer said:


> If they are basing it on the Marriott program, what did they charge them to join the points program. A while back at an owners update they were going to charge an outrageous amount just to change a resale week to be eligible for hotel points. I am imagining the fee to join PP  to be something ridiculous.



Just out of curiosity... does Hyatt currently offer the ability for resale owners to purchase the right to use the Hyatt hotel passport points exchange program?  Or was this something they were just discussing for the future?  

Also, if resale owners buy into the Pure Points program, will that allow them to participate in Hyatt gold passport?


----------



## sts1732

kal may be better suited to speak to your question, but as I understand it with the new changes for 2017, the answer is NO. I know for sure the hotel option is not offered to resale, and some what sure neither is gold passport. The hotel was never really an option for us as you needed at least 25,000 points to get a room, or more depending on what hotel and where. I can't speak to the offerings in "points program" as I don't intend to become part of it. I'll keep my deeded weeks............


----------



## Cropman

Was reading on a Facebook group that someone was staying at Coconut Plantation and was given the pitch for the new points program. Said it 'had to many avenues' to give all the details. But also said they were told the program became available last Wednesday.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Cropman said:


> Was reading on a Facebook group that someone was staying at Coconut Plantation and was given the pitch for the new points program. Said it 'had to many avenues' to give all the details. But also said they were told the program became available last Wednesday.


I heard a similar report yesterday. Starting in Florida the perhaps TX and AZ. Heard Highlands not for a year but not sure if due to CA approval or?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

ResaleExpert said:


> I heard a similar report yesterday. Starting in Florida the perhaps TX and AZ. Heard Highlands not for a year but not sure if due to CA approval or?


I have heard that Hawaii, AZ and CA are not getting the program due to state laws and that they were starting in Florida but I'm sure more info will be forthcoming soon


----------



## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I have heard that Hawaii, AZ and CA are not getting the program due to state laws and that they were starting in Florida but I'm sure more info will be forthcoming soon




I believe AZ and CA will be in PPP, but not Hawaii.


----------



## taffy19

I believe that you are right, lizap.

What they offered us in May 2014 was a fixed unit but a floating week and that was different from the way it used to be as far as I know from reading the history here.  I posted about it in post #251 but see now that I have to make a correction that I can no longer do.

I got the paperwork out that they left with us to think it over an additional day.  They were extremely busy because they were breaking the news to the owners, who were there that week, that ILG had bought the Hyatt Residence Club.  Owners as well as the staff were all very upset.  Everyone was talking about it together everywhere (staff and guests).

The prices were quoted for Platinum and for Diamond.  Platinum and Diamond are seasons with the Hyatt program instead of fixed weeks before.  I remember that the only weeks we could use it were a few weeks in November and it may have been May too but not sure anymore as that is also an in between time when school is in session.  California has "May Gray" on the coast so we would never vacation on the coast during that time of the year and not even in Southern California either.

I will ask Kal if I may email him a copy of the sheet so he can figure it out but it says on the top "Club Points 2,200, GP Points 90,000".  There are other figures too and I have forgotten what they all mean.



iconnections said:


> We we were in Carmel in May 2014 and attended a sales presentation.  I remember that they offered us our unit because we liked our view from the 1 BR condo #318 but the week was floating.  It was called Platinum and not Diamond.  It was definitely not a fixed week as I was so surprised to hear this.
> 
> It must have been fall season or an in between season because we could never go to Carmel from December to mid April *and the summer weeks were Platinum or holiday weeks.*
> 
> I am positive that it was a deeded week.  I wonder how they are selling the left-over weeks now at this resort?  I still have all the notes from the presentation.



The summer weeks have to be diamond too and not platinum like I posted.  I know that we own in the diamond season at the Hyatt Ka'anapali but a floating condo so the other way around.

I still prefer a simple fixed week/unit so I know what I own and when I can go and there is no worry about it.


----------



## Kal

Latest Information on the PPP -
Here is the "Public Offering" on the Hyatt Vacation Ownership Plan: http://www.bywindkal.com/HVOPLAN3.pdf

FYI, other Tuggers have reported some pricing information:
- Joining the PPP requires your owned unit/week plus $7,800.  That gets you an additional minimum of 400 points.
- If you provide a resale week, the price for a Coconut unit is $12,500.

Thoughts?  Whatadeal!


----------



## ResaleExpert

Kal said:


> Latest Information on the PPP -
> Here is the "Public Offering" on the Hyatt Vacation Ownership Plan: http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/HVO/HVO_PLAN_3.pdf.
> 
> FYI, other Tuggers have reported some pricing information:
> - Joining the PPP requires your owned unit/week plus $7,800.  That gets you an additional minimum of 400 points.
> - If you provide a resale week, the price for a Coconut unit is $12,500.
> 
> Thoughts?  Whatadeal!



KAL, the link did not work; could you review and post again?  Thanks

IF you provide a resale week is it $7,800 plus you get the points in that season?  Example; Gold week at 1,880 given back then $7,800 for 400 more points = 1,880 points for your return plus 400 for $7,800 = 2,280 points?  Wonder what the dues will be as likely a dues amount based PER POINT, so likely much higher than most fixed weeks.  
Also heard $17.50 per point just to buy, so above is $19.50 per point for the 400.

Wonder what season the $12,500 for a Coconut unit is the value?

Looking forward to hearing more; the more I hear, the more I believe in Hyatt deeded weeks!


----------



## taffy19

Kal, I get the following error code.  Your website must not be online at this moment.

*Error 404 - Not Found*
The document you are looking for may have been removed or re-named. Please contact the web site owner for further assistance.


----------



## Kal

taffy19 said:


> Kal, I get the following error code.  Your website must not be online at this moment.
> 
> *Error 404 - Not Found*
> The document you are looking for may have been removed or re-named. Please contact the web site owner for further assistance.


 I changed the link, try it again.


----------



## taffy19

Yes, it works and I am going to read it.  Thank you for all you do.


----------



## sts1732

First off thanks Kal, for the info. IN reading thru the attachment, it gave new meaning to "DEEDED" weeks. I'm to old to be in the pool that big. Also with the number of points min. in your previous post, yer right............whata deal 
the one thing I found interesting in reading thru was the following, I quote " The Trust Association Manager shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservation and use of the Accommodations of the Vacation Ownership plan and is authorized to reasonably reserve, deposit, or rent the Accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the Accommodations or other benefits made available through the Vacation Ownership Plan. Reservation Services Operator may change the Reservation Rules and Regulations from time to time in accordance with the Reservation Rules and Regulations and as set forth in the Reservation Services Agreement".
Guess that means that not only are the members in the pool, but HVGG has a even bigger presence........... and it would appear the ability to deny a reservation on given dates if they can make more money. I know they always have this ability, but in reading at another point they made the declaration of "certain dates", unless I'm tragically confused. Sounds like a deal to me..............great !!  I'm glad I hung onto pinion pointe and az. laws.


----------



## Cropman

e. Description of the Developer Guarantee of the Level of Assessments. Trust Developer guarantees to each Owner, through December 31, 2017, that the total annual Assessment will not exceed $0.9314 per Ownership Point for Vacation Ownership Interests. The amount of the total annual Assessment is set by the Trust Association, which is controlled by the Trust Developer during the Class B Control Period. The amount of the total annual Assessment guarantee is not an arms-length, negotiated determination. So long as the total expenditures are below this guarantee set by Trust Developer and the Trust Association, the Trust Developer shall be excused from the payment of its share of the Trust Association Expenses which otherwise would have been assessed against the unsold Ownership Points which are part of its Vacation Ownership Interest during the term of the guarantee.  

Nice, if I read this properly, they can charge 93 cents per point for this year for MF and Hyatt won't have to pay anything on the points they own.  Why do I think this could get ugly for point holders?  

Any TUGers going to jump on board?  Also I can't wait to see the addendums/exhibits that show the different levels and benefits.


----------



## Kal

Cropman said:


> e. Description of the Developer Guarantee of the Level of Assessments. Trust Developer guarantees to each Owner, through December 31, 2017, that the total annual Assessment will not exceed $0.9314 per Ownership Point for Vacation Ownership Interests. The amount of the total annual Assessment is set by the Trust Association, which is controlled by the Trust Developer during the Class B Control Period. The amount of the total annual Assessment guarantee is not an arms-length, negotiated determination. So long as the total expenditures are below this guarantee set by Trust Developer and the Trust Association, the Trust Developer shall be excused from the payment of its share of the Trust Association Expenses which otherwise would have been assessed against the unsold Ownership Points which are part of its Vacation Ownership Interest during the term of the guarantee.
> 
> Nice, if I read this properly, they can charge 93 cents per point for this year for MF and Hyatt won't have to pay anything on the points they own.  Why do I think this could get ugly for point holders?
> 
> Any TUGers going to jump on board?  Also I can't wait to see the addendums/exhibits that show the different levels and benefits.


ASSUMING the points system is the same as that of the HRC, a person entering the PPP with a 2200 point unit has to buy 400 more points.  The total would be 2600 points.  At $0.9314 that makes the MF = $2,421.  Then too, if Hyatt doesn't have to pay MF for unsold units, after 2017 the MF could be higher!  And the 2017 special MF deal ends in <7 months.

I can only imagine what hoops the hucksters will have to go thru to peddle this program to uninformed newbies.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Hyatt sales representatives will have to go through the same hoops they just went through trying to convince prospects last month to buy the deeded week (AT Developer prices) before they went to Points!   Now is the reverse for them to try to 'sell the sizzle'...
With the choices on all the rental sites and the current prices for resales it truly is buyer beware.
Then wait until they try to sell these points in a few years; Marriott points are such a commodity that seller's are getting about 10% back, if that.  Not sure how long the developers can find 'first time' people to sign up then hope they do not do any research on TUG prior to the cancel dates.  Looking forward to this journey to see how this plays out. I'm certainly selling more than taking new listings for Hyatt as I think the word is out for many that now is the time to consider a higher season deeded week.  Still quite a few low seasons out there now at least.


----------



## bdh

Kal said:


> ASSUMING the points system is the same as that of the HRC, a person entering the PPP with a 2200 point unit has to buy 400 more points.  The total would be 2600 points.  At $0.9314 that makes the MF = $2,421.  Then too, if Hyatt doesn't have to pay MF for unsold units, after 2017 the MF could be higher!  And the 2017 special MF deal ends in <7 months.
> 
> I can only imagine what hoops the hucksters will have to go thru to peddle this program to uninformed newbies.



The more you read the Public Offering, the worse the rules get for a PPP owner - and the fewer and fewer HRC legacy owners will be enticed to buy into the PPP.


----------



## heathpack

I'm away at a conference and don't have tons of spare time, eventually will read the document.  But for now: does it provide a summary of the new PPP?  If so, can anyone provide thebCliffs Note version?


----------



## sts1732

Another thing I found interesting , is that they actually spelled out that it is owned by HVGG, and they have the right by license to use the Hyatt name. I wonder how long that will last when things get uglier......

  "HVGG is an independent entity and is not an affiliate of Hyatt Corporation.  HVGG and its affiliates use the Hyatt marks under license from Hyatt Corporation and its affiliate, and the right to use such marks shall cease if such license expires or is revoked or terminated.  Hyatt Corporation and its affiliates make no representations, warranties, or guaranties, express or implied, with respect to the information contained in this Public Offering Statement, any offering documents or with respect to the HPC Club program or the Hyatt Residence Club program".


----------



## ivywag

FYI- The HRC Highlands Inn documents (and probably others) exempt the developer from paying dues on unsold units.  I've asked multiple times if he pays and have always been told that he does, but the personnel at the resort probably don't really know.  They always seem surprised by the question. Just wanted everyone to know that it's not a new concept.

Regarding HPP, the document that is of most interest to me is the Exchange Agreement referenced in the Public Offering.  That should tell us if we're going to lose our priority for reservations within HRC and if the Points folks will have access to the HRC inventory.


----------



## Kal

A few comments on the "Plan":

The entity is called HPC Club (no definition of HPC is provided)
The reservation manager is called HV Global Group (HVGG) and applies to both HRC and HPC Club
The 3 Executives of HVGG are the same as those of the HRC
Tier levels in the HPC are Elite, Premier, Executive, Classic and Non-authorized Resale
HPC Developer can rent out unsold inventory
HVGG can use the units for exchange, promotional, rental and any other use they desire
If expenses are below a guaranteed amount, the Developer is excused from annual dues on unsold inventory
There could be a fee of at least $150 involving ROFR decisions


----------



## Kal

sts1732 said:


> Another thing I found interesting , is that they actually spelled out that it is owned by HVGG, and they have the right by license to use the Hyatt name. I wonder how long that will last when things get uglier......
> 
> "HVGG is an independent entity and is not an affiliate of Hyatt Corporation.  HVGG and its affiliates use the Hyatt marks under license from Hyatt Corporation and its affiliate, and the right to use such marks shall cease if such license expires or is revoked or terminated.  Hyatt Corporation and its affiliates make no representations, warranties, or guaranties, express or implied, with respect to the information contained in this Public Offering Statement, any offering documents or with respect to the HPC Club program or the Hyatt Residence Club program".


True, that condition started when ILG purchased the Hyatt Residence Club.  ILG is renting the Hyatt name.  Hyatt has NO INVOLVEMENT except to bank the brand rental proceeds.


----------



## sts1732

Kal,  To your point of, "HVGG can use the units for exchange, promotional, rental and any other use they desire" As I was going thru it appeared or seemed to me that they could by either blocking out dates, or limiting split weeks at opportune times. They could "rent" units, weeks, days at a inflated rate to compensate or increase cash flow. Am I reading to much into that ? I realize they had always done that, as far as renting "unused" inventory, but this blocking thing...........


----------



## davevt98

Here is a summary on the new Hyatt program. 

The Timeshare Guru


----------



## lizap

I am still waiting on the 'official' announcement from ILG to legacy owners that will detail our options. I suspect very few of us will be motivated to exchange...still a lot of unknowns.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

I am confused. Besides Hawaii are there other states that won't be in the Points Program?


----------



## sts1732

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I am confused. Besides Hawaii are there other states that won't be in the Points Program?


As I understand it, at this time because of AZ. state law, pinion pointe will not be part of it(pp program). There was legal issues involving the PP program, and I have not heard of a conclusion yet. In looking thru the new rules regarding HRC and HPC, pinion pointe one that does not have a termination date. I take that as a good sign(fingers crossed).


----------



## Cropman

The sale, lease, or transfer of Vacation Ownership Interests in this multisite Vacation Ownership Plan is restricted or controlled. 

Generally, an Owner should expect substantial competition from the Trust Developer and should expect no established resale market if an Owner desires to resell a Vacation Ownership Interest. 

Geez, these two statements make me want to spend $40k for a week. Ahhh, what the heck,may I please have two Diamond weeks worth of points please?


----------



## Kal

Cropman said:


> The sale, lease, or transfer of Vacation Ownership Interests in this multisite Vacation Ownership Plan is restricted or controlled.
> 
> Generally, an Owner should expect substantial competition from the Trust Developer and should expect no established resale market if an Owner desires to resell a Vacation Ownership Interest.
> 
> Geez, these two statements make me want to spend $40k for a week. Ahhh, what the heck,may I please have two Diamond weeks worth of points please?


They seem to be saying is this is not real property but simply points.  The inference is you can't sell points.  Once you're in, you are in and they will come after you if you stop paying dues @ 18% interest.

I would love to go to a presentation as a newbie off the street.  But then they will ask for ID and quickly find I am a HRC owner.  Even then I would say I don't want to surrender my weeks, but rather buy in straight up.  That of course would twist their tail a bit as they would have to come clean.  All's left is the sizzle and a boat load of $$$$$.


----------



## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I am confused. Besides Hawaii are there other states that won't be in the Points Program?



I don't know where it now stands, but Pinion Pointe was originally included in PPP. Hawaii, Breckinridge, and the Beaver Creek resorts are not in PPP.


----------



## DazedandConfused

Kal said:


> They seem to be saying is this is not real property but simply points.  The inference is you can't sell points.  Once you're in, you are in and they will come after you if you stop paying dues @ 18% interest.
> 
> I would love to go to a presentation as a newbie off the street.  But then they will ask for ID and quickly find I am a HRC owner.  Even then I would say I don't want to surrender my weeks, but rather buy in straight up.  That of course would twist their tail a bit as they would have to come clean.  All's left is the sizzle and a boat load of $$$$$.



show up as a newbie and say you forgot your ID or feel uncomfortable giving it up for a tour


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> I don't know where it now stands, but Pinion Pointe was originally included in PPP. Hawaii, Breckinridge, and the Beaver Creek resorts are not in PPP.


I can't imagine Sierra Keys in it either as fractional ownership.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I can't imagine Sierra Keys in it either as fractional ownership.


Siesta Keys. My auto correct keeps changing it


----------



## WalnutBaron

While there are still a lot of additional details to be released before we fully understand what HRP entails and what it means to HRC owners, one thing that is clear now is that HRP has been created with one goal in mind: profit maximization, to the detriment of HRP owners. Those owners will be locked into a system where the developer will be competing with them on potential rentals, will be actively creating a negative resale environment, and will be aggressively raising MF's after the short guaranteed rate (which is much higher than what most HRC owners currently pay) expires.

The most ominous thing I see for us HRC owners is the new status tiers created, and the fact that we all fit into the lowest rung--"Non-Authorized Resale Owner". There is no clarification for what this means. If it means we have no status within HRP, I have no problem with that. If, on the other hand, it means that HGVV is going to attempt to breach HRC (legacy) owners' rights within the HRC network, they are going to have a huge fight on their hands.


----------



## lizap

You are correct-SK is also not included. I tend to forget about this one.


Tucsonadventurer said:


> I can't imagine Sierra Keys in it either as fractional ownership.


are. Orrect


----------



## lizap

WalnutBaron said:


> While there are still a lot of additional details to be released before we fully understand what HRP entails and what it means to HRC owners, one thing that is clear now is that HRP has been created with one goal in mind: profit maximization, to the detriment of HRP owners. Those owners will be locked into a system where the developer will be competing with them on potential rentals, will be actively creating a negative resale environment, and will be aggressively raising MF's after the short guaranteed rate (which is much higher than what most HRC owners currently pay) expires.
> 
> The most ominous thing I see for us HRC owners is the new status tiers created, and the fact that we all fit into the lowest rung--"Non-Authorized Resale Owner". There is no clarification for what this means. If it means we have no status within HRP, I have no problem with that. If, on the other hand, it means that HGVV is going to attempt to breach HRC (legacy) owners' rights within the HRC network, they are going to have a huge fight on their hands.



Isn't everything eventually a resale when original owners decide to sell (unless ROFR is exercised)?


----------



## Kal

lizap said:


> Isn't everything eventually a resale when original owners decide to sell (unless ROFR is exercised)?


If the unit is sold thru a firm "authorized by Hyatt", then it's a proper resale.  Or if an owner contracts with Hyatt to sell their unit, then that's an acceptable sale.  If Hyatt doesn't get a cut of the deal, then it's BAD.


----------



## Sapper

Per the definition of "non authorized resale", it only states "HPC", not HRC. Because they specifically leave out the HRC, I do not see this impacting us (current owners in the HRC), but absolutely impacting future owners in HPC. I see this as the developers means to reduce future competition in the resale market.

Also, the Hawaii, Siesta Key, 2 @ Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, North Star, and Puerto Rico properties do not seem to be included at the current time. However, that may change in the future. 

One odd thing, on the first page of the document, it was stored under "Westin" on someone's G drive.


----------



## Kal

I find it interesting that the specific names of officers are included in the rules.  Very odd as one would normally expect it would include just the title of applicable officers.  It's almost like a power grab (or job security) where the rules would have to be changed if someone leaves the position.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Sapper said:


> Per the definition of "non authorized resale", it only states "HPC", not HRC. Because they specifically leave out the HRC, I do not see this impacting us (current owners in the HRC), but absolutely impacting future owners in HPC. I see this as the developers means to reduce future competition in the resale market.
> 
> Also, the Hawaii, Siesta Key, 2 @ Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, North Star, and Puerto Rico properties do not seem to be included at the current time. However, that may change in the future.
> 
> One odd thing, on the first page of the document, it was stored under "Westin" on someone's G drive.


That leaves out 7 properties which means they will need to add at least that Many.At one point there was talk of including some Westin. Any rumors on new properties besides Aruba?


----------



## heathpack

Tucsonadventurer said:


> That leaves out 7 properties which means they will need to add at least that Many.At one point there was talk of including some Westin. Any rumors on new properties besides Aruba?



Why do they need to add any resorts?  I don't follow your logic.  If they sell points with access to N-7 resorts and people buy into that, it's all good.


----------



## heathpack

BTW.

Yesterday my exchange request came through for a 2BR unit, 4 night stay at Highlands Inn.  March, which is a beautifully vibrant green week to be in Carmel.

I was noodling around the HRC website and there's a weirdly nice amount of inventory available right now: full weeks at Kaanapali, Sunset Harbor.  Some nice Sept Aspen and Tahoe weeks. More than usual.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

heathpack said:


> Why do they need to add any resorts?  I don't follow your logic.  If they sell points with access to N-7 resorts and people buy into that, it's all good.


I can't  imagine that would entice new folks with such a limited pool but who knows


----------



## Pathways

heathpack said:


> Why do they need to add any resorts?  I don't follow your logic.  If they sell points with access to N-7 resorts and people buy into that, it's all good.





Tucsonadventurer said:


> I can't  imagine that would entice new folks with such a limited pool but who knows



Maybe he is saying 'It's all good' as in "they won't make many sales, so it won't take much away from the HRC owners"


----------



## DAman

heathpack said:


> BTW.
> 
> Yesterday my exchange request came through for a 2BR unit, 4 night stay at Highlands Inn.  March, which is a beautifully vibrant green week to be in Carmel.
> 
> I was noodling around the HRC website and there's a weirdly nice amount of inventory available right now: full weeks at Kaanapali, Sunset Harbor.  Some nice Sept Aspen and Tahoe weeks. More than usual.




Lucky you. We just returned from a quick two night stay at H Inn. I love June gloom in Carmel. Ok I love Carmel. I'm keeping my eye on two bedroom units for next June.


----------



## WalnutBaron

As you're probably aware, there are only a handful of 2BR units at Highlands Inn. You could be waiting a long time for that one.


----------



## heathpack

WalnutBaron said:


> As you're probably aware, there are only a handful of 2BR units at Highlands Inn. You could be waiting a long time for that one.



The interesting thing is: I've heard people say this before, so I never requested a 2BR unit, I thought they'd be too hard to get.

But I put in my exchange request around a month ago, and just got my new set of points a week ago and then: match.

Maybe June is more popular than March, certainly the points charts would suggest so.  But the only time I ever stayed at Highlands Inn in summer, it was in the 50s and we had SoCal clothes.  It wasn't that great IMO.

For various logistical life reasons, Feb/March/April works well for us and the lush green-ness of the area always amazes us!


----------



## DAman

WalnutBaron said:


> As you're probably aware, there are only a handful of 2BR units at Highlands Inn. You could be waiting a long time for that one.



There are five two bedroom units at Highlands Inn. 

You never know at six months what will show up in the inventory. I got a two bedroom for early August a couple years ago. I'm always looking as it is my wife's favorite.


----------



## WalnutBaron

heathpack said:


> The interesting thing is: I've heard people say this before, so I never requested a 2BR unit, I thought they'd be too hard to get.
> 
> But I put in my exchange request around a month ago, and just got my new set of points a week ago and then: match.
> 
> Maybe June is more popular than March, certainly the points charts would suggest so.  But the only time I ever stayed at Highlands Inn in summer, it was in the 50s and we had SoCal clothes.  It wasn't that great IMO.
> 
> For various logistical life reasons, Feb/March/April works well for us and the lush green-ness of the area always amazes us!


Yes, I'm an owner there and absolutely love it. We have a Week 18 full ocean view unit which usually falls in the first of May. Absolutely gorgeous and just a treat to be in that lovely part of the world during that time of year. And even though it's mid-Spring, we always bring our sweatshirts and light jackets as the 50's are pretty standard. But we love it.


----------



## DazedandConfused

I did a quick mini visit to Hyatt Coconut Plantation and they mentioned the points system is very new and that is what they are trying to sell. They have only 3 building built 14 years ago and they have a nice scale model of all the future buildings. Honestly, I am not sure the demand for that many new building is here as this is a pretty quiet area of Florida.On the other hand Siesta Key is an unbelievable nice location and has very little opportunity to trade into.

The approximate prices are as follows:

$19.50 per point (they suggested 2,300 points+ to get to a higher level with preferred booking). I think they are allowing 15 and 16 month advance reservations depending on level to buy into. I think 6,600 is the highest level.

The annual dues is around $1pp

The interest rate was an outrageous 15%

I did not do a full tour and just stopped for a quick visit. The sales rep was very pleasant. No hard sell at all. 

This is being rolled out slowly and only will be at a few Hyatts - especially Key West and coconut Plantation


----------



## lizap

DazedandConfused said:


> I did a quick mini visit to Hyatt Coconut Plantation and they mentioned the points system is very new and that is what they are trying to sell. They have only 3 building built 14 years ago and they have a nice scale model of all the future buildings. Honestly, I am not sure the demand for that many new building is here as this is a pretty quiet area of Florida.On the other hand Siesta Key is an unbelievable nice location and has very little opportunity to trade into.
> 
> The approximate prices are as follows:
> 
> $19.50 per point (they suggested 2,300 points+ to get to a higher level with preferred booking). I think they are allowing 15 and 16 month advance reservations depending on level to buy into. I think 6,600 is the highest level.
> 
> The annual dues is around $1pp
> 
> The interest rate was an outrageous 15%
> 
> I did not do a full tour and just stopped for a quick visit. The sales rep was very pleasant. No hard sell at all.
> 
> This is being rolled out slowly and only will be at a few Hyatts - especially Key West and coconut Plantation



Guess it's all relative, but we love the Naples-Bonita Springs area, so much so that it's on our retirement short list..


----------



## Kal

DazedandConfused said:


> ...The approximate prices are as follows:
> 
> $19.50 per point (they suggested 2,300 points+ to get to a higher level with preferred booking). I think they are allowing 15 and 16 month advance reservations depending on level to buy into. I think 6,600 is the highest level.
> 
> The annual dues is around $1pp
> 
> The interest rate was an outrageous 15%...


My oh my!  So it would cost from $44,800 to $128,700 to enjoy the wonderful benefits of a points program.  And then pay from $2,300 to $12,870 for annual dues.  I can't wait to sit in on an "owner's update" just to watch ILG put the numbers on the table.  My guess is the first question at the get go involves annual income.  Maybe it will go like this..."do you have a annual income of >$200,000 and a net worth of >$2 million?  If so, you're a qualified buyer.  If not, it was nice meeting you!


----------



## DAman

Kal said:


> My oh my!  So it would cost from $44,800 to $128,700 to enjoy the wonderful benefits of a points program.  And then pay from $2,300 to $12,870 for annual dues.  I can't wait to sit in on an "owner's update" just to watch ILG put the numbers on the table.  My guess is the first question at the get go involves annual income.  Maybe it will go like this..."do you have a annual income of >$200,000 and a net worth of >$2 million?  If so, you're a qualified buyer.  If not, it was nice meeting you!



I must have been naive to think ILG was going to offer us a conversion to PPP at a minimal cost. I'm not going to consider changing my two Piñon Pointe weeks because of the huge increase in MF. 

Kal when you go to a presentation you should ask why all the restrictions on selling. If I was going to pay retail of $44,800 to $128,700 for a product why should I not be able to sell it to someone else with all the bells and whistles. I'm starting to ask that across all the systems. It's hard enough to sell. 

I'm very happy with my current situation. This year I have been to Highlands Inn twice and Piñon Pointe once. My next years points will arrive soon too.


----------



## dagger1

DAman said:


> I must have been naive to think ILG was going to offer us a conversion to PPP at a minimal cost. I'm not going to consider changing my two Piñon Pointe weeks because of the huge increase in MF.
> 
> Kal when you go to a presentation you should ask why all the restrictions on selling. If I was going to pay retail of $44,800 to $128,700 for a product why should I not be able to sell it to someone else with all the bells and whistles. I'm starting to ask that across all the systems. It's hard enough to sell.
> 
> I'm very happy with my current situation. This year I have been to Highlands Inn twice and Piñon Pointe once. My next years points will arrive soon too.


I guess if Hyatt makes "re-selling" weeks and/or points very restricted and degraded, the Sellers only option will be to sell back to Hyatt at close to zero...  Hyatt will get their product back at much less than current ROFR cost.


----------



## DAman

dagger1 said:


> I guess if Hyatt makes "re-selling" weeks and/or points very restricted and degraded, the Sellers only option will be to sell back to Hyatt at close to zero...  Hyatt will get their product back at much less than current ROFR cost.



And I would have to ask them why would I throw away my money for them to make a profit on both sides of the transaction.  I think all purchasers should ask these questions. Why can't I transfer all my benefits? 

Of course I will not buy retail anyway. 

To convert my weeks will not be worth it to me. I am almost certain of that. I'm very happy with the current system. 

I don't bother going to the updates anymore. I get better information from Kal's posts here. Thanks Kal.


----------



## DazedandConfused

Kal said:


> My guess is the first question at the get go involves annual income.  Maybe it will go like this..."do you have a annual income of >$200,000 and a net worth of >$2 million?  If so, you're a qualified buyer.  If not, it was nice meeting you!



On the one page sign-in form, there were five categories of income to circle and the highest category of income was $100,000


----------



## WalnutBaron

DazedandConfused said:


> On the one page sign-in form, there were five categories of income to circle and the highest category of income was $100,000


Unconscionable. So the Hyatt sales weasels look at the top box and say with a straight face, "Oh, I see your income level is $100,000. Well, I'd like to recommend a vacation package that will only cost you about half your annual income. And we'll throw in a set of steak knives if you sign right now." (Sorry...couldn't help myself with the Glengarry Glen Ross movie reference.)


----------



## DazedandConfused

WalnutBaron said:


> Unconscionable. So the Hyatt sales weasels look at the top box and say with a straight face, "Oh, I see your income level is $100,000. Well, I'd like to recommend a vacation package that will only cost you about half your annual income. And we'll throw in a set of steak knives if you sign right now." (Sorry...couldn't help myself with the Glengarry Glen Ross movie reference.)



and the kicker is that only buys Coconut Plantation that is a good, but not great location in my opinion as there are a ton of hotel and VRBO options there that are very reasonable


----------



## Kal

WalnutBaron said:


> Unconscionable. So the Hyatt sales weasels look at the top box and say with a straight face, "Oh, I see your income level is $100,000. Well, I'd like to recommend a vacation package that will only cost you about half your annual income. And we'll throw in a set of steak knives if you sign right now." (Sorry...couldn't help myself with the Glengarry Glen Ross movie reference.)


Add in the "sledge-o-matic" and we're getting close to a deal.  Let me see, I give you my deed, a boat load of cash and you give me a bag of points, the steak knives AND a sledge-o-matic.  OMG I've got too many numbers swirling around in my head and it makes my head hurt!


----------



## WalnutBaron

Kal said:


> Add in the "sledge-o-matic" and we're getting close to a deal.  Let me see, I give you my deed, a boat load of cash and you give me a bag of points, the steak knives AND a sledge-o-matic.  OMG I've got too many numbers swirling around in my head and it makes my head hurt!


Okay, okay...I know it's a lot to think about, but that sledge-o-matic is like the Swiss Army knife of super-gadgets! It will not only smash a watermelon, it will curl your hair on its slow speed, and it will even do the dishes for you. And those steak knives--well! If you've ever overcooked your steaks on the grill so they're like shoe leather, these steak knives will slice through 'em like they're the marshmallows for your S'mores you're having for dessert that night. Now about that week of vacation in Florida I was telling you about for the low, low price of just $48,000...did you know you can stretch it out to 6 weeks by smart use of your points?????


----------



## Kal

WalnutBaron said:


> Okay, okay...I know it's a lot to think about, but that sledge-o-matic is like the Swiss Army knife of super-gadgets! It will not only smash a watermelon, it will curl your hair on its slow speed, and it will even do the dishes for you. And those steak knives--well! If you've ever overcooked your steaks on the grill so they're like shoe leather, these steak knives will slice through 'em like they're the marshmallows for your S'mores you're having for dessert that night. Now about that week of vacation in Florida I was telling you about for the low, low price of just $48,000...did you know you can stretch it out to 6 weeks by smart use of your points?????


Hmmmm, 6 weeks in a studio for only $1,142 per night.  For that I also need a few frosty drinks with little umbrellas and a cherry.  That will make the leather & marshmallow combo go down so nice.


----------



## WalnutBaron

Kal said:


> Hmmmm, 6 weeks in a studio for only $1,142 per night.  For that I also need a few frosty drinks with little umbrellas and a cherry.  That will make the leather & marshmallow combo go down so nice.


We can certainly do that! I'll gladly ply you with a few right now and...and...wait a minute...Hey, Mike! You have one of those free drinks vouchers? Let's give these nice people a voucher! Now, you just sign right here acknowledging receipt of this voucher. Now this obligates you to attend a one-hour Deluxe Owner's Update on your next visit. Or, if you prefer, I'll just take a copy of your credit card so you can get the Explorer's Package. Coupled with your $48,000 purchase,  it's available today for just $4,000 and allows you to return during midweek days every 4th Tuesday during the Year Of The Dragon. Did you know that's a lucky year? Now how are those drinks tasting?


----------



## alexadeparis

Did anyone notice that the document that was linked to has the word "Westin" in the footer on the first page? Hmmm.


----------



## taffy19

Sapper mentioned something about it in post #290 in this thread.

I read more rumors today about ILG.  Some may like it others may not.  I wonder what the outcome will be.

Wall Street isn't happy with their performance, I guess.


----------



## lizap

taffy19 said:


> Sapper mentioned something about it in post #290 in this thread.
> 
> I read more rumors today about ILG.  Some may like it others may not.  I wonder what the outcome will be.
> 
> Wall Street isn't happy with their performance, I guess.




A classic case of a company expanding too rapidly beyond its core business.  My guess is that the Hyatt and Starwood acquisitions weren't wise.  I don't get caught up in all this.  Once I have the facts, just learn to work within the system..


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> A classic case of a company expanding too rapidly beyond its core business.  My guess is that the Hyatt and Starwood acquisitions weren't wise.  I don't get caught up in all this.  Once I have the facts, just learn to work within the system..


"Once I have the facts" is the key. Wish we knew what was going on.


----------



## Kal

taffy19 said:


> Sapper mentioned something about it in post #290 in this thread.
> 
> I read more rumors today about ILG.  Some may like it others may not.  I wonder what the outcome will be.
> 
> Wall Street isn't happy with their performance, I guess.


An activist hedge fund holding 2% of ILG stock is complaining.  I wonder if the 2 percenter has much standing?


----------



## taffy19

Why are the Hilton timeshare owners getting a survey recently?   They may be interested.  I just hate all these changes constantly but we are not multiple timeshare week owners, thank goodness.


----------



## nuwermj

Kal said:


> An activist hedge fund holding 2% of ILG stock is complaining.  I wonder if the 2 percenter has much standing?



Two percent can be powerful, if it becomes the leader of a coalition of share holders, perhaps through a proxy fight. This is why FrontFour issued a *public *letter.


----------



## Kal

nuwermj said:


> Two percent can be powerful, if it becomes the leader of a coalition of share holders, perhaps through a proxy fight. This is why FrontFour issued a *public *letter.


Just like surfing the internet.  In general this type of activity might get some entity one seat on the BOD.


----------



## Binspira

OMG - I think I spent 20 hours reading stuff on TUG - was 99% confident that Hyatt would be good match for us to purchase and even would splurge and have Carmel be our home base since everyone says buy a place you would want to go to over and over. However, with this new points system it sounds like a large negative to Hyatt owners w/ potential for a bunch of changes that will likely be more negative longer term and with Interval expanding too quickly possible other negatives. Hmmmmm - I like our current timeshare yet looking to expand to another. Wonder if we should be waiting until the dust settles since yet it will take years to know the impact. The good news is I do believe they can only push so much negative down on owners before there is revolt. 

Was looking at purchasing Carmel prime week for $10-15k w/ 2,200 points w/ $1750MF... should I end up holding off or is there any reason to be purchasing now w/ all the unknown changes? 

BInspira


----------



## Cropman

If you like the week, and will use it, buy it now!!  They can never take it away from you. Current advice from the Hyatt experts on here, lol, not me, is buy a deeded week now before the only option is points. Just my two cents worth.


----------



## dagger1

Cropman said:


> If you like the week, and will use it, buy it now!!  They can never take it away from you. Current advice from the Hyatt experts on here, lol, not me, is buy a deeded week now before the only option is points. Just my two cents worth.


X 2...  If you want it and will use it, buy it.  If you don't know, don't buy it...


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

I believe there will still be the ability to trade especially since Hawaii, Colorado and Puerto Rico will not be participating in PPP. It will still be good just not as easy to get in elsewhere.
Just be sure you are good with where you own


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan

taffy19 said:


> Sapper mentioned something about it in post #290 in this thread.
> 
> I read more rumors today about ILG.  Some may like it others may not.  I wonder what the outcome will be.
> 
> Wall Street isn't happy with their performance, I guess.


I had bought some stock back when it was first announced on tug about the new points system coming, the price then was around $10 to $12 per share. And cashed out when I saw this. Sold at $27 per share. So the stock is actually up a lot. Maybe they see a cash flow problem in the future if they keep on the current road. Or they don't see a good way around the so called "legal issues" they ran into with the new ppp.  ??????


----------



## Cropman

I'm betting the pure points program doesn't happen this summer.  I talked with customer service about a totally unrelated topic and she ended it with, "Can I answer any other questions?"  I said sure, can you tell me when we Hyatt is going to roll out the new points program?  She had no idea what I was talking about.  The salesmen are talking about it, but has anyone bought this yet?  If they have, there is no way to book properties online yet, unless there is a new website we don't know about.  Also, the customer service reps would have to know the program inside and out to answer questions.  None of this is happening.  The 40 something page document that was posted did have a 2017 date typed into it, but no month and day for when it would become active. 

Also in the document, it did mention fees for both permanent conversion to the new program, or a fee for yearly use, so I'm guessing you will have your choice of switching your week on a year by year basis or permanently joining the program.  I'm beginning to think the people in charge of this project are the same ones doing Wyndham's IT department.  No way this pure bs points program rolls out successfully before September.


----------



## lizap

Cropman said:


> I'm betting the pure points program doesn't happen this summer.  I talked with customer service about a totally unrelated topic and she ended it with, "Can I answer any other questions?"  I said sure, can you tell me when we Hyatt is going to roll out the new points program?  She had no idea what I was talking about.  The salesmen are talking about it, but has anyone bought this yet?  If they have, there is no way to book properties online yet, unless there is a new website we don't know about.  Also, the customer service reps would have to know the program inside and out to answer questions.  None of this is happening.  The 40 something page document that was posted did have a 2017 date typed into it, but no month and day for when it would become active.
> 
> Also in the document, it did mention fees for both permanent conversion to the new program, or a fee for yearly use, so I'm guessing you will have your choice of switching your week on a year by year basis or permanently joining the program.  I'm beginning to think the people in charge of this project are the same ones doing Wyndham's IT department.  No way this pure bs points program rolls out successfully before September.



Last time I called, there was an option to press one number if you are an HRC owner and another if you own HPC.  Could be that the HRC reps aren't knowledgeable about HPC.


----------



## WalnutBaron

lizap said:


> Last time I called, there was an option to press one number if you are an HRC owner and another if you own HPC.  Could be that the HRC reps aren't knowledgeable about HPC.


Just to reinforce what lizap is saying, when you call 800.GOHYATT, you can choose option 1 for Hyatt Residence Club or option 2 for "Hyatt Residence Portfolio Owners". It does sound like Hyatt/ILG is beginning to gear up with some level of infrastructure support for HRP.


----------



## nuwermj

Cropman said:


> I'm betting the pure points program doesn't happen this summer.




If that happens, the ILG stock price will collapse. The company has been promising this program for a long time. If it can't deliver within a reasonable timetable the Wall Street bankers will loose what ever faith they have in this company. If it can't do this program, how can it integrate Vistana?


----------



## lizap

nuwermj said:


> If that happens, the ILG stock price will collapse. The company has been promising this program for a long time. If it can't deliver within a reasonable timetable the Wall Street bankers will loose what ever faith they have in this company. If it can't do this program, how can it integrate Vistana?




I think ILG is in trouble regardless of the rollout of PPP.  Typical example of a company expanding too fast into areas it knows little about. Would not be a bit surprised to see another company, such as Marriott, acquire ILG (was reported a while back ILG was looking for a buyer). It's possible they might give PPP owners access to Sheratons in the FLEX program but I seriously doubt they get access (and especially not priority over mandatory owners) to the mandatory Westins and 2 voluntary Westins in Hawaii, which are the gems in Vistana.


----------



## Cropman

lizap said:


> Last time I called, there was an option to press one number if you are an HRC owner and another if you own HPC.  Could be that the HRC reps aren't knowledgeable about HPC.



You are correct. I heard the same thing today. However, I'm. clueless and did not realize portfolio owner was the new points club owners. 

Do you think they have their own web portal too?  And do you choose 1 or 2 when you call if you own both points and weeks?


----------



## WalnutBaron

Cropman said:


> Do you think they have their own web portal too?  And do you choose 1 or 2 when you call if you own both points and weeks?


Remember, ownership in one is quite different from ownership in the other. The two trusts are distinct. If you do own in both, you'd have to contact one group for the management of those assets and contact the second group for management of the points assets. However, I see no evidence yet of a second website for the Hyatt Residence Portfolio. It's probably so small at this point that a small staff has been trained and established by phone only to answer questions of owners.


----------



## Kal

The first I have seen written mention of the _*Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program*_. This was contained in an email message from the Hyatt Residence Club Concierge:

_"HV Global Group, Inc. independently owns and manages the Hyatt Residence Club and Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio programs and uses the Hyatt Vacation Ownership name and other Hyatt names and marks under license from an affiliate of Hyatt Hotels Corporation. The right to use the Hyatt names and marks shall cease if such license expires or is revoked or terminated. Hyatt Hotels Corporation and its affiliates make no representations, warranties, or guaranties with respect to the resorts or the Hyatt Residence Club and Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio programs. HV Global Group, Inc. is not an affiliate of Hyatt Hotels Corporation."
_
It's interesting that no formal notice has been provided to owners that the Portfolio program even exists.


----------



## WalnutBaron

It is interesting, indeed. As I mentioned in my post yesterday on another thread, it sounded to me like Hyatt is essentially doing a "soft opening" on HRP now, with more details and a bigger splash coming early in 2018--at least, according to the Owner Services rep I spoke with.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

So new news from folks who have gone to presentations is that you can join for one year at a minimum price and your points will last for 3 yrs with
no reservation fees. I am going to call today and try and get more information.You can use inventory from either group if you join. Right now resale owners can join but that may change


----------



## bdh

Tucsonadventurer said:


> So new news from folks who have gone to presentations is that you can join for one year at a minimum price and your points will last for 3 yrs with
> no reservation fees. I am going to call today and try and get more information.You can use inventory from either group if you join. Right now resale owners can join but that may change



That is news!  Will be interesting to hear what details they'll provide.


----------



## WalnutBaron

Interesting news. Thanks, Tucson. Again, this strategy tells me that the rollout of HRP is going very slowly--either by design (possible) or because sales are slow and Hyatt/ILG are trying to figure it all out (probable).


----------



## Kal

Tucsonadventurer said:


> ....You can use inventory from either group if you join. Right now resale owners can join but that may change


My guess is there will be two inventories.  One is the HRP units and the other is a limited inventory of HRC units which have been "temporarily" deposited by owners who want to try the system for one year.  Hyatt has to keep those units separate as they would have to deal with deed issues, which would be a major problem on reinstatement.

It's all in the fine print, but remember the Hyatt huckster is trying to make a sale, so who knows how it would really work.


----------



## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> So new news from folks who have gone to presentations is that you can join for one year at a minimum price and your points will last for 3 yrs with
> no reservation fees. I am going to call today and try and get more information.You can use inventory from either group if you join. Right now resale owners can join but that may change



This agrees with the info. I got. Wish they would send us a formal announcement about our options.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> This agrees with the info. I got. Wish they would send us a formal announcement about our options.


I guess sales has a CD and a pamphlet but Hyatt is not planning to send us anything until the program is fully going everywhere ( maybe because it keeps changing?) .
It is $20 a point to join ( 19.50 if you sign up TODAY, lol)  and the minimum points are 660 although someone else who went to a presentation said 760 hmmm? 
Guess it depends on your sales rep.  To me that seems a lot. It is modeled after 
Marriotts program but I believe that their buy in price was not quite as steep. Maybe some Marriott folks can share their knowledge. We spoke with a lot of Marriott folks in Breckenridge as
 we share a common pool and  hot tub area and most all have been happy with their program. I never got a call back from sales but did get
 a direct phone number from an owner that bought into the program so will try and call again today. I will post if I find out anything new.


----------



## suzannesimon

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I guess sales has a CD and a pamphlet but Hyatt is not planning to send us anything until the program is fully going everywhere ( maybe because it keeps changing?) .
> It is $20 a point to join ( 19.50 if you sign up TODAY, lol)  and the minimum points are 660 although someone else who went to a presentation said 760 hmmm?
> Guess it depends on your sales rep.  To me that seems a lot. It is modeled after
> Marriotts program but I believe that their buy in price was not quite as steep. Maybe some Marriott folks can share their knowledge. We spoke with a lot of Marriott folks in Breckenridge as
> we share a common pool and  hot tub area and most all have been happy with their program. I never got a call back from sales but did get
> a direct phone number from an owner that bought into the program so will try and call again today. I will post if I find out anything new.



Marriott allowed us to to pay $699 and enroll our existing weeks in the program ($599 for 1 week).  We continue to own our weeks and have the option of exchanging them every year for a set amount of points depending on the resort and season we own.  That price has gone up over time and you can't enroll resale weeks most of the time unless you buy a boatload of Points.  I think it is probably worth it to be able to get points for your weeks though I've only done that once, but others love the flexibility.


----------



## Cropman

So it costs $12k+ to be able to do what, that I can't do now?  Or are existing owners able to join at a price much lower because they already own?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

I have 2 calls in to Hyatt and no one has called back so I just am going off reports from 2 owners who went to presentations in Bonita Springs. The benefits are priority trading, no extra fees and points are good for 3 yrs before expiring. It is something under $150 to join for a yr. but I have no idea what that means except no reservation fees and points again last 3 yrs. One member was told that she couldn't trade into Hawaii if she wasn't in the Portfolio Program which makes no sense to me as Hawaii is not in that program. There is also mention of new resorts only for Portfolio members but I take that with a grain of salt. Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## Cropman

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I have 2 calls in to Hyatt and no one has called back so I just am going off reports from 2 owners who went to presentations in Bonita Springs. The benefits are priority trading, no extra fees and points are good for 3 yrs before expiring. It is something under $150 to join for a yr. but I have no idea what that means except no reservation fees and points again last 3 yrs. One member was told that she couldn't trade into Hawaii if she wasn't in the Portfolio Program which makes no sense to me as Hawaii is not in that program. There is also mention of new resorts only for Portfolio members but I take that with a grain of salt. Sorry I can't be more helpful.



You did great!  Thank you.  Heck of a lot more info than what Hyatt is putting out to their owners.  Evidently they want to build up the intrigue and have everyone want to get into the program.


----------



## suzannesimon

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I have 2 calls in to Hyatt and no one has called back so I just am going off reports from 2 owners who went to presentations in Bonita Springs. The benefits are priority trading, no extra fees and points are good for 3 yrs before expiring. It is something under $150 to join for a yr. but I have no idea what that means except no reservation fees and points again last 3 yrs. One member was told that she couldn't trade into Hawaii if she wasn't in the Portfolio Program which makes no sense to me as Hawaii is not in that program. There is also mention of new resorts only for Portfolio members but I take that with a grain of salt. Sorry I can't be more helpful.



Are they referring to the points we already have with our current weeks or points we have to buy in addition to our current ownership?


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Cropman said:


> You did great!  Thank you.  Heck of a lot more info than what Hyatt is putting out to their owners.  Evidently they want to build up the intrigue and have everyone want to get into the program.


I did get a call back but was told that legally because I lived in AZ and AZ was not yet registered for the program , they could not share information with me over the phone. The sales executive
said he would call me back in a month or 2 when AZ was registered. Does not make much sense as we own 1 of our 2 weeks in Florida. I did share that it was not helping their program that there was so 
much conflicting information and that people were going to share what they learned at presentations on the internet. He agreed with me but said his hands were tied by their legal department.  Suzanne I posed your question to the folks that attendedthe presentation in Coconut Plantation and will let you know if I learn anything of value.


----------



## suzannesimon

I remember when I bought my weeks at Marriott Frenchman's Cove.  I'm probably the only one who ever bought from an online Marriott salesperson but it worked very well.  However I lived in Virginia at the time and they weren't registered in Virginia.  They couldn't deliver any sales info or paperwork to me so they would FedEx everything to my son in Baltimore.  I would drive to Baltimore for all the contracts and closing documents. I remember thinking it was strange since the Marriott Manor Club is in Virginia.  Apparently they must register each resort in every state they plan to sell in.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

suzannesimon said:


> Are they referring to the points we already have with our current weeks or points we have to buy in addition to our current ownership?


From the Hyatt facebook group, "Points in Portfolio program expire at three years... points from HRC (deeded) can be transferred into the portfolio, IF you are a portfolio owner - the fee to do that is $133, must be done by March 31 from what I understand, and they would then expire in 3 years if not used."


----------



## Cropman

More from Facebook:  

No, you cannot just transfer your deeded weeks (I wish!!!), you must buy into the program and then you can transfer points starting with your use year.....and  you have to buy points to be part of the portfolio program.  

According to someone who has bought in the minimum points are around 700 with a cost of around $20 per point. (Cost and point amounts seem to vary). Buy in will be around $13k.  All I can say is Wow!


----------



## Kal

Cropman said:


> More from Facebook:
> 
> No, you cannot just transfer your deeded weeks (I wish!!!), you must buy into the program and then you can transfer points starting with your use year.....and  you have to buy points to be part of the portfolio program.
> 
> According to someone who has bought in the minimum points are around 700 with a cost of around $20 per point. (Cost and point amounts seem to vary). Buy in will be around $13k.  All I can say is Wow!


Now this version makes sense if you own TWO HRC units.  Here's my take on it:

1. Buy into the HRP program as a newbie or permanently transfer one HRC deeded unit into HRP. [Probably ~$40K to $13K]
2. Your SECOND HRC unit stays in the HRC and has a point value.  Use those points to transfer into HRP on a trial basis.  Points last 3 years.

For the unit staying in the HRC, there is an added feature for points beyond the HRPP usage, CUP points usage, and Interval.  The added HRP usage.

Then once you have access to the HRP, what is really available beyond any HRC units that may be in the pool????


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

What is unfortunate is that a portfolio owner can use our units even if we aren't in the program but we have no access
to units in the portfolio program AND we will have low priority in exchanges. For us personally, we have never used our home week, we 
exchange 100% of the time so we will most likely be exchanging now in interval for Marriott and Westin properties. What I am not clear on ,
can portfolio members exchange into Breckenridge and Beaver Creek even though they are not in the program? I also would not be at all surprised to see Hawaii
in the program eventually .We were considering buying a 3rd week 
through Vistana but since they are also owned by Interval we are hesitant.
I also saw someone on facebook who joined the program for around $8,000. I wonder if that is because they did not own a resale week. Might be that they charge resale owners more.
It is such a guessing game at this point. And the info that you can join for a year and try it is incorrect. New info states that that is not the case. Maybe that will happen down the road.


----------



## stover33

Info posted to the Hyatt group on FB is as follows (from what I could gather, note that all this info comes from several different people who attended meetings or spoke to people at Hyatt, so I can't vouch for the accuracy):

-Owners must buy more points (minimum 660) to join the Portfolio program
-Points cost $19.50 each
-Annual maintenance fee for purchased points is .93 per point
-Can opt to transfer your already-owned weeks into the portfolio program each year for a nominal fee (So for example if you own 1880 point week you would need to buy 660 points minimum which would always be in the PPP - then you could also transfer your additional 1880 points each year for $150 or thereabouts (owner has option to do this or not each year).

You could probably buy 2 entire weeks resale for less than the 660 points you'd get for $13k in the portfolio program, I'm just not seeing a lot of takers for this at these prices.


----------



## WalnutBaron

stover33 said:


> Info posted to the Hyatt group on FB is as follows (from what I could gather, note that all this info comes from several different people who attended meetings or spoke to people at Hyatt, so I can't vouch for the accuracy):
> 
> -Owners must buy more points (minimum 660) to join the Portfolio program
> -Points cost $19.50 each
> -Annual maintenance fee for purchased points is .93 per point
> -Can opt to transfer your already-owned weeks into the portfolio program each year for a nominal fee (So for example if you own 1880 point week you would need to buy 660 points minimum which would always be in the PPP - then you could also transfer your additional 1880 points each year for $150 or thereabouts (owner has option to do this or not each year).
> 
> You could probably buy 2 entire weeks resale for less than the 660 points you'd get for $13k in the portfolio program, I'm just not seeing a lot of takers for this at these prices.


Thanks, Stover. I agree with you. The only way this even starts to make sense is if current HRC owners begin to have trouble getting internal exchanges because Hyatt ends up buying a huge amount of former HRC inventory through the resale market and placing it into the HRP. That is, as has been discussed here before, both expensive and time-consuming. I just don't think this HRP thing is going well for Hyatt/ILG.


----------



## ResaleExpert

WalnutBaron said:


> Thanks, Stover. I agree with you. The only way this even starts to make sense is if current HRC owners begin to have trouble getting internal exchanges because Hyatt ends up buying a huge amount of former HRC inventory through the resale market and placing it into the HRP. That is, as has been discussed here before, both expensive and time-consuming. I just don't think this HRP thing is going well for Hyatt/ILG.


Based on the relatively few Hyatt weeks exercised (I've sold about 100 Hyatt weeks in the past 12 months since they began buying back and only some Diamond Key West and a VERY FEW other low priced weeks were bought back) I would say that Hyatt will not have enough inventory to make any real difference in available inventory.  They reportedly own 20 weeks (of 3,060) at High Sierra and so they will have the remaining inventory at Windward Pointe, Coconut Plantation, Pinon Pointe, Wild Oak and Highlands Inn to move to their points program.  Truly, resales will continue to make far more sense for points, and the ONLY way to own when you want to occupy a certain week.  Prices for even the highest season fixed weeks are still under 25% of their points pricing and lower season weeks are at give away prices.  With dues approaching $1.oo per point the deeded weeks are another way to save every year.  As Marriott was really a float program (except a few fixed weeks) their program was easier for some to move to their points program.  With Hyatt I cannot understand how anyone that knows what they are buying will decide to pay for Hyatt's points program.


----------



## WalnutBaron

ResaleExpert said:


> Based on the relatively few Hyatt weeks exercised (I've sold about 100 Hyatt weeks in the past 12 months since they began buying back and only some Diamond Key West and a VERY FEW other low priced weeks were bought back) I would say that Hyatt will not have enough inventory to make any real difference in available inventory.  They reportedly own 20 weeks (of 3,060) at High Sierra and so they will have the remaining inventory at Windward Pointe, Coconut Plantation, Pinon Pointe, Wild Oak and Highlands Inn to move to their points program.  Truly, resales will continue to make far more sense for points, and the ONLY way to own when you want to occupy a certain week.  Prices for even the highest season fixed weeks are still under 25% of their points pricing and lower season weeks are at give away prices.  With dues approaching $1.oo per point the deeded weeks are another way to save every year.  As Marriott was really a float program (except a few fixed weeks) their program was easier for some to move to their points program.  With Hyatt I cannot understand how anyone that knows what they are buying will decide to pay for Hyatt's points program.


Great insight. Thanks, Expert!


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

ResaleExpert said:


> Based on the relatively few Hyatt weeks exercised (I've sold about 100 Hyatt weeks in the past 12 months since they began buying back and only some Diamond Key West and a VERY FEW other low priced weeks were bought back) I would say that Hyatt will not have enough inventory to make any real difference in available inventory.  They reportedly own 20 weeks (of 3,060) at High Sierra and so they will have the remaining inventory at Windward Pointe, Coconut Plantation, Pinon Pointe, Wild Oak and Highlands Inn to move to their points program.  Truly, resales will continue to make far more sense for points, and the ONLY way to own when you want to occupy a certain week.  Prices for even the highest season fixed weeks are still under 25% of their points pricing and lower season weeks are at give away prices.  With dues approaching $1.oo per point the deeded weeks are another way to save every year.  As Marriott was really a float program (except a few fixed weeks) their program was easier for some to move to their points program.  With Hyatt I cannot understand how anyone that knows what they are buying will decide to pay for Hyatt's points program.


What they are telling folks is that Portfolio owners can use use our weeks even if we are not in the program and aren't using our week. Does anyone know if that is true or misinformation? Sales are promoting that you can book 1 day at a time or skip Saturdays and save 40% of your points by booking Sunday through Fri .I am amazed at their prices, Marriott's conversion was less costly


----------



## WalnutBaron

Tucsonadventurer said:


> What they are telling folks is that Portfolio owners can use use our weeks even if we are not in the program and aren't using our week. Does anyone know if that is true or misinformation? Sales are promoting that you can book 1 day at a time or skip Saturdays and save 40% of your points by booking Sunday through Fri .I am amazed at their prices, Marriott's conversion was less costly


I don't know the answer to your question, but I am strongly inclined to say that the Sales Department is lying through their teeth. HRP owners own floating rights to a completely separate inventory of weeks, distinct from HRC weeks. The only way crossover occurs is when HRP buys former HRC weeks on the resale market and places them into the HRP inventory.


----------



## stover33

WalnutBaron said:


> I don't know the answer to your question, but I am strongly inclined to say that the Sales Department is lying through their teeth. HRP owners own floating rights to a completely separate inventory of weeks, distinct from HRC weeks. The only way crossover occurs is when HRP buys former HRC weeks on the resale market and places them into the HRP inventory.



I'm not so sure about this.  Once a week goes from HRPP into CUP, the unit is now available for internal exchanges.  What prevents Hyatt from simply moving pending HRP requests for that resort/week to the front of the line, ahead of any HRC requests?  That's how I interpreted it at least.


----------



## Kal

The key to the HRP sales pitch is "you have access to HRC Inventory".  That statement is actually true but Hyatt is purposefully glossing over what that term means.  The "HRC Inventory" is simply the HRC weeks that are in the HRP pool NOT the legacy HRC units which would be available to the Club.  Those units enter the HRP by unsold inventory, resales taken by ROFR, and most importantly any HRC weeks deposited by HRC members who buy into the HRP.

The HRP sales people are not necessarily lying but fully taking advantage of the prospective buyer who doesn't have a grip on the term "HRC Inventory".  The buyer hears what they want to hear and the huckster is not going to offer any clarification for fear of not making the sale.

When you stop and think about reserving 1 day of the legacy HRC units, what does that do to the remaining 6 days?  A legacy week is 7, 4, or 3 day stays in a specific unit-week.  The numbers just don't work.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Kal said:


> The key to the HRP sales pitch is "you have access to HRC Inventory".  That statement is actually true but Hyatt is purposefully glossing over what that term means.  The "HRC Inventory" is simply the HRC weeks that are in the HRP pool NOT the legacy HRC units which would be available to the Club.  Those units enter the HRP by unsold inventory, resales taken by ROFR, and most importantly any HRC weeks deposited by HRC members who buy into the HRP.
> 
> The HRP sales people are not necessarily lying but fully taking advantage of the prospective buyer who doesn't have a grip on the term "HRC Inventory".  The buyer hears what they want to hear and the huckster is not going to offer any clarification for fear of not making the sale.
> 
> When you stop and think about reserving 1 day of the legacy HRC units, what does that do to the remaining 6 days?  A legacy week is 7, 4, or 3 day stays in a specific unit-week.  The numbers just don't work.


Thank you Kal! That makes perfect sense. I wish that more Hyatt owners were on TUG, especially after reading some comments on the facebook group. As a relatively new timeshare owner, 2 1/2 yrs. the information on here is invaluable.


----------



## suzannesimon

That's why they need to  allow weeks owners into the program very cheaply initially. Without owners exchanging their weeks for points, they won't have enough weeks available to fulfill points requests.


----------



## stover33

Again just playing devil's advocate (have not read any legal documents about the HRP program) - but is there anything to stop them from simply giving HRP members priority over HRC members, for equivalent internal exchanges?

I get what you are saying about 1-day stays not adding up with the 3,4,7-day stays of HRC... but that does not mean that an equivalent 7-day stay request by an HRP member, cannot be given priority over the same 7-day request by an HRC member, for an available HRC unit (one where the HRPP period has expired or been relinquished, and has been converted to CUP points by the week's owner).

I look at it this way - in the beginning they will have very few units in the HRP program.  Only as they buy back units or get existing owners to convert to pure points (or build new resorts perhaps) - will inventory become available.  So it seems to me that they almost HAVE to allow new HRP members to exchange into available HRC units, or else they will hardly ever be able to fill an exchange for these new customers, who just ponied up a boatload of money to join.  Not good PR for a new program they are trying to get off the ground.


----------



## lizap

We need to wait and see what our options are until we receive official notification from Hyatt.  I'm pretty sure it's going to look quite different from what the hucksters are saying.



stover33 said:


> Again just playing devil's advocate (have not read any legal documents about the HRP program) - but is there anything to stop them from simply giving HRP members priority over HRC members, for equivalent internal exchanges?
> 
> I get what you are saying about 1-day stays not adding up with the 3,4,7-day stays of HRC... but that does not mean that an equivalent 7-day stay request by an HRP member, cannot be given priority over the same 7-day request by an HRC member, for an available HRC unit (one where the HRPP period has expired or been relinquished, and has been converted to CUP points by the week's owner).
> 
> I look at it this way - in the beginning they will have very few units in the HRP program.  Only as they buy back units or get existing owners to convert to pure points (or build new resorts perhaps) - will inventory become available.  So it seems to me that they almost HAVE to allow new HRP members to exchange into available HRC units, or else they will hardly ever be able to fill an exchange for these new customers, who just ponied up a boatload of money to join.  Not good PR for a new program they are trying to get off the ground.


----------



## Kal

stover33 said:


> Again just playing devil's advocate (have not read any legal documents about the HRP program) - but is there anything to stop them from simply giving HRP members priority over HRC members, for equivalent internal exchanges?...


Think of the HRP availability as "Bucket P" and HRC inventory as "Bucket C".  The HRP owners can only pick from Bucket P and have a priority assigned by the number of points they received under contract.  The higher the priority, the earlier they can pick....from Bucket P.  They can't pick from Bucket C so that priority is very confined.  The legacy HRC owners have their own priority established by HRPP and position on the Request Wait List.  That position is defined by the date you made the request, doesn't matter how many points or units you have and are confined to Bucket C.


----------



## Cropman

Kal, why can't they pick from Bucket C?  (By the way, I agree with you.)  I just haven't been able to see in writing saying they can't, and if it doesn't say it, Hyatt will let them.  There is just no way Hyatt can get the inventory they need in sold out legacy resorts charging $13k.  I just feel like I'm about to be defiled without getting bought a dinner and a movie first.


----------



## suzannesimon

We've been going through this for years with Marriott.  Each ownership type has a bucket- points owners, weeks owners, weeks owners who bought into being able to trade for points, weeks available in Marriott.com that were traded for Reward points, etc, etc.  Points owners are frequently upset that they can't get what they want unless the weeks owners give up their weeks for points.  Then there are the resorts that were acquired after the Points system who the Points owners get first crack at.  It can be very confusing for the owners but I think it is handled fairly.  I haven't checked my Hyatt deed but we are probably protected there to some degree.


----------



## stover33

Cropman said:


> Kal, why can't they pick from Bucket C?  (By the way, I agree with you.)  I just haven't been able to see in writing saying they can't, and if it doesn't say it, Hyatt will let them.  There is just no way Hyatt can get the inventory they need in sold out legacy resorts charging $13k.  I just feel like I'm about to be defiled without getting bought a dinner and a movie first.



Yeah I hope Kal is correct but I have not seen anything in writing that specifies that HRC units are segregated from HRP units in terms of internal exchanges.  Once an HRC member exits HRPP (either by transferring points into CUP, or letting the 6-month HRPP expire), that unit/week is now available to fill exchanges.  I can't see any reason why a HRP member could not request that week, just like they would request any other week - once it is CUP it's just a Hyatt week that is up for grabs.  

Kal are you saying that in my example, HRP members could NOT reserve all or part of that relinquished HRC week - even if no one in HRC wants it?  I highly doubt that, it would make no sense from their standpoint.  So in that case the only question is whether the HRP request would be given priority over HRC requests.


----------



## Kal

stover33 said:


> Yeah I hope Kal is correct but I have not seen anything in writing that specifies that HRC units are segregated from HRP units in terms of internal exchanges.  Once an HRC member exits HRPP (either by transferring points into CUP, or letting the 6-month HRPP expire), that unit/week is now available to fill exchanges.  I can't see any reason why a HRP member could not request that week, just like they would request any other week - once it is CUP it's just a Hyatt week that is up for grabs.
> 
> Kal are you saying that in my example, HRP members could NOT reserve all or part of that relinquished HRC week - even if no one in HRC wants it?  I highly doubt that, it would make no sense from their standpoint.  So in that case the only question is whether the HRP request would be given priority over HRC requests.


That's my reading of the HRP/HRC 43 page rules and regs.  The two programs are totally separate.

“Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face.”


----------



## WalnutBaron

Kal said:


> That's my reading of the HRP/HRC 43 page rules and regs.  The two programs are totally separate.


For all those who may not be aware, the best information any of us has on HRP is embedded in the 43-page document entitled "Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio HPC Vacation Ownership Plan". Kal posted it in this thread as Post #260. There is also a link to a brief summary of the program on Post #276.

As I mentioned earlier, my interpretation of the language agrees with Kal's: the HRC Trust is separate and distinct from the HRP Trust, and never the twain shall meet. Hyatt is working hard to populate the HRP Trust with properties purchased through their exercise of ROFR on the resale market as well as HRC owners' conversion to HRP. But--as others have pointed out--Hyatt's pricing for such conversion is steep, and the economics just don't seem to make much sense, especially in light of the value HRC owners have currently.

I will say again that I don't think HRP is going well. I'll further speculate that the "soft opening" in Florida is essentially being used as Hyatt's test market to gauge owner interest and, if it turns out that Hyatt's sales goals for HRP are not being met, I would not be surprised to see an announcement in coming months of a  "special introductory price" (e.g. price decrease) to encourage more HRC owners to convert to the points program (HRP).


----------



## heathpack

WalnutBaron said:


> For all those who may not be aware, the best information any of us has on HRP is embedded in the 43-page document entitled "Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio HPC Vacation Ownership Plan". Kal posted it in this thread as Post #260. There is also a link to a brief summary of the program on Post #276.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, my interpretation of the language agrees with Kal's: the HRC Trust is separate and distinct from the HRP Trust, and never the twain shall meet. Hyatt is working hard to populate the HRP Trust with properties purchased through their exercise of ROFR on the resale market as well as HRC owners' conversion to HRP. But--as others have pointed out--Hyatt's pricing for such conversion is steep, and the economics just don't seem to make much sense, especially in light of the value HRC owners have currently.
> 
> I will say again that I don't think HRP is going well. I'll further speculate that the "soft opening" in Florida is essentially being used as Hyatt's test market to gauge owner interest and, if it turns out that Hyatt's sales goals for HRP are not being met, I would not be surprised to see an announcement in coming months of a  "special introductory price" (e.g. price decrease) to encourage more HRC owners to convert to the points program (HRP).



Perhaps the concept of being able to offer a "special introductory price" is the reason existing owners are not being informed about the new points system, unless they happen to go to a sales pitch.  Hyatt wants to wait and see how it goes over with the few existing owners they float it past?  If it goes over like a lead balloon, then maybe they take a different tack when they announce this new product to current owners.


----------



## Kal

A member of the HVC Face Book community reported: “…the Trust was seeded with the following number of weeks at the Portfolio resorts to start the [HVP] program:

_(Note – Where the total number of unit weeks is readily available, I have added the percent represented by that seeding)_

Carmel - *496*

Coconut Plantation - *218*

Pinion Point – *101* of 5,658 unit weeks = 1.8%

Wild Oak Ranch - *717*

Aspen – *207* of 2,600 unit-weeks = 8%

Windward Pointe – *458* of 4,836 unit-weeks = 9.5%

Sunset Harbor – *31* of 2,132 total unit-weeks = 1.5%

Beach House - *42* of 3,848 unit-weeks = 1%

High Sierra Lodge (Lake Tahoe) - *20*


----------



## lizap

Bingo!



heathpack said:


> Perhaps the concept of being able to offer a "special introductory price" is the reason existing owners are not being informed about the new points system, unless they happen to go to a sales pitch.  Hyatt wants to wait and see how it goes over with the few existing owners they float it past?  If it goes over like a lead balloon, then maybe they take a different tack when they announce this new product to current owners.


----------



## nuwermj

stover33 said:


> Once an HRC member exits HRPP (either by transferring points into CUP, or letting the 6-month HRPP expire), that unit/week is now available to fill exchanges.  I can't see any reason why a HRP member could not request that week, just like they would request any other week - once it is CUP it's just a Hyatt week that is up for grabs.



Does the "Exchange Reservation Period" explain how pure point owners have access to individual deeds? 


"c. Exchange Reservation Period. During the Exchange Reservation Period, subject to the terms of the Club to Club Exchange Agreement, HPC Club Owners have the right on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to reserve the use of any available Vacation Period within the HPC Club. In addition, HRC Members also have the right during the Exchange Reservation Period to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods during the Exchange Reservation Period in exchange for HPC Club Owners’ right to reserve the use of accommodations in the HRC pursuant to the Club to Club Exchange Agreement." (p. 32)

"a. Owner Reservation Period. The Owner Reservation Period shall mean the period beginning three hundred and sixty-four (364) days prior to Check-In Day for a Vacation Period and lasting one hundred eighty-two (182) days, during which the HPC Club Owner must compete, subject to any Fixed Reservation Rights, on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to use their HPC Club Points to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods in the HPC Club, subject to any reservation restrictions set forth on the Membership Tier Level Chart and the following: ..." (p. 29)

Definitions: 

"Exchange Reservation Period shall mean the one hundred twenty-two (122) day period beginning on the day after the expiration of the Owner Reservation Period for a given Vacation Period and ending at 11:59 p.m. on the day before the first day of the HPC Priority Period for the given Vacation Period. During the Exchange Reservation Period, subject to the terms of the Club to Club Exchange Agreement, HPC Club Owners and HRC Members have the voluntary right, on a first come, first served basis, to reserve the use of any available Vacation Period within the HPC Club." (p. 6)

"Owner Reservation Period shall mean the period beginning three hundred sixty-four (364) days prior to the Check-In Day for a Vacation Period and lasting one hundred eighty-two (182) days, during which the HPC Club Owner must compete on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods in the HPC Club." (p. 9)


----------



## Kal

nuwermj said:


> Does the "Exchange Reservation Period" explain how pure point owners have access to individual deeds?
> 
> 
> "c. Exchange Reservation Period. During the Exchange Reservation Period, subject to the terms of the Club to Club Exchange Agreement, HPC Club Owners have the right on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to reserve the use of any available Vacation Period within the HPC Club. In addition, HRC Members also have the right during the Exchange Reservation Period to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods during the Exchange Reservation Period in exchange for HPC Club Owners’ right to reserve the use of accommodations in the HRC pursuant to the Club to Club Exchange Agreement." (p. 32)
> 
> "a. Owner Reservation Period. The Owner Reservation Period shall mean the period beginning three hundred and sixty-four (364) days prior to Check-In Day for a Vacation Period and lasting one hundred eighty-two (182) days, during which the HPC Club Owner must compete, subject to any Fixed Reservation Rights, on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to use their HPC Club Points to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods in the HPC Club, subject to any reservation restrictions set forth on the Membership Tier Level Chart and the following: ..." (p. 29)
> 
> Definitions:
> 
> "Exchange Reservation Period shall mean the one hundred twenty-two (122) day period beginning on the day after the expiration of the Owner Reservation Period for a given Vacation Period and ending at 11:59 p.m. on the day before the first day of the HPC Priority Period for the given Vacation Period. During the Exchange Reservation Period, subject to the terms of the Club to Club Exchange Agreement, HPC Club Owners and HRC Members have the voluntary right, on a first come, first served basis, to reserve the use of any available Vacation Period within the HPC Club." (p. 6)
> 
> "Owner Reservation Period shall mean the period beginning three hundred sixty-four (364) days prior to the Check-In Day for a Vacation Period and lasting one hundred eighty-two (182) days, during which the HPC Club Owner must compete on a first come, first served basis with other HPC Club Owners to reserve the use of any available Vacation Periods in the HPC Club." (p. 9)


Remember, there are two separate systems.  Points can be used as desired separately within each system.  There is no cross-over.  The rules govern how points can be used in each system.  A member must compete with other owners in their respective system to obtain a confirmed reservation.


----------



## nuwermj

Kal said:


> Remember, there are two separate systems.  Points can be used as desired separately within each system.  There is no cross-over.  The rules govern how points can be used in each system.  A member must compete with other owners in their respective system to obtain a confirmed reservation.



Yes, they are two "separate and distinct entities." Neither is responsible for any of the obligations of the other entity. But there is also a layer sitting on top of these two separate and distinct entities. It seems that layer might be the "Club to Club Exchange Agreement." According to the Rules and Regs doc: "The exchange agreement allows HPC Club Owners to exchange to accommodations within the Hyatt Residence Club exchange network and for Club Members to exchange to accommodations within the HPC Trust Club." (section 5.2)

http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/hrc_rules_regs17.pdf


----------



## Kal

My feeling is the exchange for HRP members is to HRC units where a HRC owner does an annual usage in HRP.  The HRC deeded unit actually still resides in the HRC but those points are available in the HRP.  The exchange would be limited to that specific unit rather than the full legacy inventory.  Remember, Hyatt wants $$$ from the HRC owner to use any points in the HRP.


----------



## WalnutBaron

My thanks to nuwermj and Kal for this very interesting exchange. It's a crying shame that Hyatt is leaving all of us to try to divine the details out of this potentially substantial change in the nature of our current ownerships in HRC, but that's what we are forced to do. By reviewing the document we do have in print and parsing the language, I think we're all getting a better understanding of what's at play here. Personally, I am feeling quite good about the continued high value of the weeks I own in the HRC system.


----------



## Kal

It would appear Hyatt has not found a way to make a wide area mailing of the new HRP.  Reason is they have to be registered in a state to sell timeshares in that state.  If they are not registered in every state where an HRC owner resides, they could only send to a smaller population of owners.  If there is no other reasonable restriction, how should HRC owners view their management skills??  The program is obviously rolled out since points are indeed being sold.


----------



## WalnutBaron

Kal said:


> It would appear Hyatt has not found a way to make a wide area mailing of the new HRP.  Reason is they have to be registered in a state to sell timeshares in that state.  If they are not registered in every state where an HRC owner resides, they could only send to a smaller population of owners.  If there is no other reasonable restriction, how should HRC owners view their management skills??  The program is obviously rolled out since points are indeed being sold.


Kal, I nearly always agree with your insights, but I think it's not accurate to say the HRP is "rolled out"--as least by the definition I understand. Rolled out, to me anyway, means that the program is being sold nationally. I was at HHI a couple of weeks ago and attended the owners update out of curiosity to see what they'd say and they did not even discuss it. When I asked about HRP, they said, "Yes, that's a program being introduced in Florida but we do not have details at this time." Has the program been introduced? Yes. Is it in play nationally? I don't think so. It still seems that they're trying to iron out the kinks--of which there are many--before they make a big splash and roll this out nationally. 

While your point about direct mail is well-taken, they're not restricted to make a big announcement on the HRC website or by way of a future HRC newsletter--neither of which they've done. If you're right--and this program is now fully implemented--it's the quietest sales effort of a major new program I've ever seen.


----------



## Kal

When I say "rolled out" it means consistent with their overall plan.  Hyatt has originally indicated they would start the program in Florida then gradually move across the country.  Then too, a number of resorts would not be involved for various reasons.  For some it would require some level of state approval, while in Maui it appears to be largely vetoed by the developers.  Maui just now moved about 33% of the resort into a floating week concept so the HRP would further complicate the situation.

So let's say the HRP was "initiated" in Florida.  But then even the owners of Florida units are in the dark...unless we go to their shop to hear about it.


----------



## davevt98

For those you interested, here is an overview of the new program called Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program. There still seems to be additional information needed on this new program but this gives us a good start. 

http://www.thetimeshareguru.com/hyatt-residence-portfolio-program.html


----------



## lizap

Still, no information as to options for HRC owners...  



davevt98 said:


> For those you interested, here is an overview of the new program called Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program. There still seems to be additional information needed on this new program but this gives us a good start.
> 
> http://www.thetimeshareguru.com/hyatt-residence-portfolio-program.html


----------



## TFTG

Great info, thanks for sharing.  

I was in Carmel recently and attend an owner's update and asked lots of questions about the new program, different buckets of inventory and how it'll work, etc, but they had no details or information to share, just that they know changes are coming just not yet to Carmel and how they are selling weeks.  Also no info on how current owners can/will be impacted or options if they were to consider the new points program.  

Carmel is still selling deeded weeks at their new sales center (in the former restaurant downstairs).  They indicated they are about 80% sold out and plan on selling deeded weeks for the time being.  A large part of their new updated presentation is selling the World of Hyatt benefits and points transfer options, which in most cases doesn't make sense.  It's also interesting that the info you posted in the article plays up the World of Hyatt program and transferring options in the points program, so that may be how they try to sell it to people who aren't familiar with timeshares and more familiar with the hotel program.  

Also, I found it interesting that if I bought into Carmel directly they would make my resale weeks look like developer weeks and convert them to get the WOH point transfer option.  


davevt98 said:


> For those you interested, here is an overview of the new program called Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program. There still seems to be additional information needed on this new program but this gives us a good start.
> 
> http://www.thetimeshareguru.com/hyatt-residence-portfolio-program.html


----------



## sts1732

"Also, I found it interesting that if I bought into Carmel directly they would make my resale weeks look like developer weeks and convert them to get the WOH point transfer option."

That's interesting...........Their lips must have been moving.


----------



## WalnutBaron

lizap said:


> Still, no information as to options for HRC owners...


While it's true that there is no detailed information about costs for conversion from HRC to HRP, the article does seem to reinforce the view espoused on this thread that HRC owners will continue to operate within what is referred to as the "Hyatt Residence Club Legacy Program", separate and distinct from HRP.


----------



## ResaleExpert

Here is some copy from a newer Reservation Confirmation re: PORTFOLIO POINTS PROGRAM  Seems they have FOUR levels of ownership almost certainly based on # of total Hyatt Portfolio Points:  They are calling it HPC (Hyatt Points Club)?  Not sure what the ORP after is.
*Other Fees *

World of Hyatt Exchange Fee: $133 via Web; $143 via phone.
Guest Certificates: $30 via Web; $36 via phone.
Returned check fee: $40.
Split Week Resort Fee for Club Use Reservations and HRC Exchanges: $39, paid to the resort upon departure. Split week fees DO NOT apply at Hyatt Main Street Station; Highlands Inn, A Hyatt Residence Club Resort; The Residences at Park Hyatt Beaver Creek; Hyatt Grand Aspen; and Northstar Lodge.
Housekeeping Fee for HPC ORP Use Reservations and Portfolio Exchanges: $60, paid to the resort upon departure.
HPC Classic Tier Members pay no housekeeping fee for their first Owner Reservation Period Use Reservation.
HPC Executive Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first two Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
HPC Premier Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first three Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
HPC Elite Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first four Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
Housekeeping fees will apply for all subsequent reservations.

Any of these fees may be paid using Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover, Diner’s Club or JCB. 
*Reservation requests are not guaranteed.*


----------



## ResaleExpert

sts1732 said:


> "Also, I found it interesting that if I bought into Carmel directly they would make my resale weeks look like developer weeks and convert them to get the WOH point transfer option."
> 
> That's interesting...........Their lips must have been moving.



Let's see; If you buy a RESALE Platinum 2,000 points week for $6,500 *I have these listings* and a 2,000 points week directly from Hyatt at ~$35,000 you have spent $41,500 for 4,000 points - more importantly 2 higher demand weeks to occupy.  SO, trading to hotels points you can then actually lose not only $28,500 but have the ability to pay about $1,800 in dues and trading fees (each week) for only a couple nights in their better hotels???  ALL while giving up your valuable condo for a week?  THE worst trade in timeshare 99.6% of the time is the hotel option... My %  
Just another way for a developer to have you think this is a great option and to pay 4x to 7x the resale price.  Buy 2 resale weeks for $13,000 total (example) and use the remaining $25,000 + for some other great things for your family.
When I sold for Hyatt we use Hyatt's (previously owned) Hawthorn Suites as the example since you could get 'a lot of nights' with that trade.  Not many or great hotels but is was the 'shiny nickel' they remembered...
  It's not very complicated; Buy a timeshare to use the week/ timeshare or trade and even rent timeshares- but never think that buying a timeshare retail to trade to hotels will be anything close to a reason to pay tens of thousands more.  Rent a hotel when you want a hotel room; earn your hotel points, get your elite status and when you understand the value of timeshare vacations use your timeshare!
Good thing there is TUG2.net for those willing to do a little research prior to buying!  Thanks for reading my opinion!


----------



## sts1732

ResaleExpert said:


> Let's see; If you buy a RESALE Platinum 2,000 points week for $6,500 *I have these listings* and a 2,000 points week directly from Hyatt at ~$35,000 you have spent $41,500 for 4,000 points - more importantly 2 higher demand weeks to occupy.  SO, trading to hotels points you can then actually lose not only $28,500 but have the ability to pay about $1,800 in dues and trading fees (each week) for only a couple nights in their better hotels???  ALL while giving up your valuable condo for a week?  THE worst trade in timeshare 99.6% of the time is the hotel option... My %
> Just another way for a developer to have you think this is a great option and to pay 4x to 7x the resale price.  Buy 2 resale weeks for $13,000 total (example) and use the remaining $25,000 + for some other great things for your family.
> When I sold for Hyatt we use Hyatt's (previously owned) Hawthorn Suites as the example since you could get 'a lot of nights' with that trade.  Not many or great hotels but is was the 'shiny nickel' they remembered...
> It's not very complicated; Buy a timeshare to use the week/ timeshare or trade and even rent timeshares- but never think that buying a timeshare retail to trade to hotels will be anything close to a reason to pay tens of thousands more.  Rent a hotel when you want a hotel room; earn your hotel points, get your elite status and when you understand the value of timeshare vacations use your timeshare!
> Good thing there is TUG2.net for those willing to do a little research prior to buying!  Thanks for reading my opinion!



I agree 100%,  The hotel option they try to pass off as an alternative, was and is a glaring, red flag, their lips are moving, example of WHAAAAAAT you can't be serious


----------



## TFTG

Yeah I never said it was a good option and understand all of the details, just mentioned that it was interesting they were offering that to try to entice me to purchase with them directly.  They were really playing up the World of Hyatt transfer options and future updates since the hotel loyalty program has been rebranded  




ResaleExpert said:


> Let's see; If you buy a RESALE Platinum 2,000 points week for $6,500 *I have these listings* and a 2,000 points week directly from Hyatt at ~$35,000 you have spent $41,500 for 4,000 points - more importantly 2 higher demand weeks to occupy.  SO, trading to hotels points you can then actually lose not only $28,500 but have the ability to pay about $1,800 in dues and trading fees (each week) for only a couple nights in their better hotels???  ALL while giving up your valuable condo for a week?  THE worst trade in timeshare 99.6% of the time is the hotel option... My %
> Just another way for a developer to have you think this is a great option and to pay 4x to 7x the resale price.  Buy 2 resale weeks for $13,000 total (example) and use the remaining $25,000 + for some other great things for your family.
> When I sold for Hyatt we use Hyatt's (previously owned) Hawthorn Suites as the example since you could get 'a lot of nights' with that trade.  Not many or great hotels but is was the 'shiny nickel' they remembered...
> It's not very complicated; Buy a timeshare to use the week/ timeshare or trade and even rent timeshares- but never think that buying a timeshare retail to trade to hotels will be anything close to a reason to pay tens of thousands more.  Rent a hotel when you want a hotel room; earn your hotel points, get your elite status and when you understand the value of timeshare vacations use your timeshare!
> Good thing there is TUG2.net for those willing to do a little research prior to buying!  Thanks for reading my opinion!


----------



## bdh

ResaleExpert said:


> They are calling it HPC (Hyatt Points Club)?  Not sure what the ORP after is.
> 
> 
> HPC Classic Tier Members pay no housekeeping fee for their first Owner Reservation Period Use Reservation.
> HPC Executive Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first two Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
> HPC Premier Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first three Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
> HPC Elite Tier Members pay no housekeeping fees for their first four Owner Reservation Period Use Reservations.
> Housekeeping fees will apply for all subsequent reservations.



ORP = Owner Reservation Period


----------



## Cropman

Have I been hearing this correctly?  Resale weeks are not eligible for HPC?  (Even though at current price levels I'm not interested anyway.)


----------



## Tucsonadventurer

Some resale owners in the Facebook group were given the option but were told it was available now but may not be in the future. That was a few weeks ago so it may be different now. I ended up buying my 3rd week timeshare week with Westin seemed a better option than the new program


----------

