# Sampler Just Purchased in Arizona



## Talya

Hello - I am glad to have found this site and am hoping I hear good news but have a sinking feeling that the sinking feeling I have had since this purchase will never go away. 

Will not go into how I could have been so 'stoopid'  as to walk straight into this when I was seeing red flags. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I ignored every sound impulse to stop yet proceeded - why? Subliminal tapes? Water tainted? The salesman was young, good looking and very personable?  Good grief - I am embarrassed I got taken....but I never had an experience with timeshares and assumed integrity (though flashing lights were going off in my head at innumerable junctures). Okay, rant (and confession) over.....maybe...

I have some last ditch questions, hoping against hope.....

*CONTEXT:* *Five days ago I purchased a Sampler in Arizona for $3,995 *(20,000 points, 2 years - told this  would give me 3-4 weeks, or 35-40 days of vacation - this was actually written down on a separate piece of paper with the name and personal contact information of the salesperson, even though another salesperson was vehement that this should not be done, the young man did it anyway when the other salesperson was away). 

I paid in full, using my Amex Card. No fees. I got a tablet as a 'gift'. Haven't turned it on. "Lifetime benefits" are Club Combo, Flexpoints, Vacation Planner. 

In the contract I signed it is stated: _"The Sampler membership purchase is not a timeshare purchase and there is NO RIGHT OF RESCISSION, CANCELLATION OR REFUND." _(Yeah....stoopid, stoopid, stoopid! )

There is then a sentence regarding purchasers in Nevada not being covered by the Nevada Real Estate Division - however, the salesperson said to me that in Arizona the sale was covered by Real Estate laws. Not sure if this is important.

*QUESTIONS:* Given the above -

1) *Can I cancel this purchase?* Regardless of the clause quoted above, do I still have 10 days to rescind this purchase? I have read on-line that a certified letter sent to the DRI address in the contract will effect cancellation - but I am also aware that maybe those people so saying didn't have that limiting clause in their contracts in 2016.

2) *If I cannot cancel the contract via a letter to DRI, then can I do the cancellation via my Amex Card?* Or do I risk being in default if I go that route? Curiously, charges usually take a while to get posted to my Amex account - but the DRI charge got posted within 3 days. If the charge were still 'pending' (as it normally is with Amex - especially hotel charges) I think I could have supervened and cancelled the charge - not so? I am aware I need to call Amex on this.

3) *Am I just screwed like everyone else who made this purchase?* No hope....make the best of it....chalk it up as a very expensive lesson (though far from as expensive as it could have been - at least I didn't even consider the 'payment plan' option at 20% interest  )

Okay - *do I have a prayer of a chance to rescind this?* I did e-mail the salesman asking how to cancel (I won't use his phone number - won't). I also e-mailed the resort's General Manager. No response from either. 

Many thanks for any responses.


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## Talya

Hope someone(s) can help if only to tell me the brutal truth. Just having a place to vent is helpful, though.


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## Talya

There is another thread that has one of the answers -  just saw the thread -



DanZale2000 said:


> *In most cases the sampler cannot be cancelled. A sampler bought in Hawaii, Nevada, Arizona, Missouri cannot*; if bought in California, it can be cancelled.



Okay. 

It's done. Unless because I live in California there is wiggle room.....

But now I have to figure out how to get the most of what I've bought. *Can I ask advice here on how to go about using/booking the vacations?* I am clueless - though I do have the Vacation Planner as part of the deal.

*BTW they did tell me that I couldn't start booking until after 2 weeks had elapsed from signing - that suggests to me that I could get out of this if I wanted, why else incur the black-out time?*


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## Talya

Okay - last question - as I have been reading I see the question of the moment is the Sampler purchase.  Misery does love company. I feel better knowing I haven't been the only one - at least.

Last Question: I am seeing that people are looking for points to buy. Is it possible for one to 'sell' one's Sampler points? If I could re-coup this $4,000 loss it would be fabulous......but I don't know the protocols for that. Anyone?


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## RLS50

Talya said:


> Okay - last question - as I have been reading I see the question of the moment is the Sampler purchase.  Misery does love company. I feel better knowing I haven't been the only one - at least.
> 
> Last Question: I am seeing that people are looking for points to buy. Is it possible for one to 'sell' one's Sampler points? If I could re-coup this $4,000 loss it would be fabulous......but I don't know the protocols for that. Anyone?


Talya,

Not sure if you can rescind a sampler in Arizona.  But I recommend the Facebook group Diamond Resorts US Friends.  There are many posters there that will comment and provide input and guidance on how to use your points.  You may even get some info on whether you qualify for rescission.

That group also has many photos of the various DRI resorts.  The worst part is that as part of your Sampler (if you can't rescind) I believe you will be required to attend a DRI sales meeting at every resort you use them at.  I hope you realize it's possible they will tell you anything to try and convince you that somehow you have to purchase points.  So be prepared.


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## TUGBrian

id still attempt to cancel within the arizona timeframe...you have nothing to lose by trying and you would likely have the support of AZ law if they wanted to try to push the issue.


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## nuwermj

My understanding is that you cannot rescind this purchase. Yes, you can ask questions about usage of the points. You can not transfer (nor rent) Sampler points.


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## clifffaith

Talya -- The older versions of the sampler package had only a handful of DRI resorts that you could visit. Is this the case with your sampler? Depending on where you are able to travel and what kind of units you can book (do they limit you to one bedroom?) you can likely get some nice vacations for your money. But be aware that you will have to sit through a high pressure sales presentation on each sampler vacation. I think it's worth a try to get rid of it. They are in trouble with the Attorney General of Arizona and I'd tell anyone who would listen that your research indicates this isn't a company with which you want to become involved.


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## Talya

Thank you, All, for the responses. 


RLS50 said:


> Talya, Not sure if you can rescind a sampler in Arizona.  But *I recommend the Facebook group Diamond Resorts US Friends.  There are many posters there that will comment and provide input and guidance on how to use your points.  You may even get some info on whether you qualify for rescission. *That group also has many photos of the various DRI resorts.


Thank you. Will check it out.


RLS50 said:


> *The worst part is that as part of your Sampler (if you can't rescind) I believe you will be required to attend a DRI sales meeting at every resort you use them at.  I hope you realize it's possible they will tell you anything to try and convince you that somehow you have to purchase points.  So be prepared.*



One of the salespersons (the older of the two who seemed to be 'training' the younger man) stated that I could refuse to attend any more sales meetings. Wonder if I can rely on that?

The underlined has me puzzled - _how_ could they convince me that I 'must' purchase points (says I who let every savvy thought in my head go out the door when I signed onto the Sampler).


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## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> I'd still attempt to cancel within the arizona timeframe...you have nothing to lose by trying and you would likely have the support of AZ law if they wanted to try to push the issue.


@TUGBrian* So I send the certified letter? And who do I send it to? The Las Vegas address in my contract? What do I say - that I just want out - or do I explain why I want out, etc.?*

*What is the Arizona timeframe?

What is the Arizona Law that is supporting a request for rescinding?
*
BTW the initial salesperson (I had three) that delivered the really ott expensive timeshare 'sell' indicated to me that there was a class action suit against DRI in Arizona. (Talk about red flag!) I have decided that the scale of my stupidity  is because I have something to learn from all this. After 90 minutes with the first salesperson I was tired - yawning - and thought I was free to go - when the second one arrived with the Sampler offer......ach! So many points at which I should just have said 'no' and walked out.


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## Talya

nuwermj said:


> *My understanding is that you cannot rescind this purchase. *Yes, you can ask questions about usage of the points. You can not transfer (nor rent) Sampler points.


It's pretty clear from the language in the contract I signed that the possibility is unlikely, so @TUGBrian and @nuwermj - why the difference in perspective on this? Just wondering.

I will send the certified letter tomorrow. No harm in trying. I am very curious why they have put in a 2 week black-out from signing - that suggests to me that there is some loophole.


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> Talya -- *The older versions of the sampler package had only a handful of DRI resorts that you could visit. Is this the case with your sampler? *Depending on where you are able to travel and what kind of units you can book (do they limit you to one bedroom?) *you can likely get some nice vacations for your money.*


The underlined/bolded - that's what I am counting on if I can't get the money back. Also, I can't tell you how much having found a place to discuss this has reduced my angst. I am aware now though that to make this work to my advantage I must be super savvy. 

There are 36 locations listed. Of those 36 there are 8 locations that they indicate only a basic hotel room (or garden view studio) will be available.

Locations include Arizona (Sedona, Scottsdale) - California (Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Ramona, Capistrano) - tons in Florida: Celebration, Kissimmee, Ormond Beach, Daytona, Orlando, South Beach, Miami, Miami Beach) - Hawaii (Kauai, Maui, Big Island) - Missouri (Branson) - North Carolina (Kitty Hawk, Sapphire Valley) - Nevada (Las Vegas) - Tennessee (Gatlinburg) - Virginia (Williamsburg, Virginia Beach) - and Mexico (Los Cabos - Hyatt Place).


clifffaith said:


> But be aware that you will have to sit through a high pressure sales presentation on each sampler vacation.


I was told I could refuse the sales meetings. I am going to do that. What could they do to me?



clifffaith said:


> I think it's worth a try to get rid of it.


I'll send the letter to Las Vegas - should I also copy the Attorney General of Arizona on the letter - or tell them that I will be contacting the Attorney General of Arizona?


clifffaith said:


> *They are in trouble with the Attorney General of Arizona* and I'd tell anyone who would listen that your research indicates this isn't a company with which you want to become involved.


Is that the class action suit - or is there something more going on?


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## TUGBrian

just saying, if I write "you cant do this" on a piece of paper that doesnt make the law any less applicable.

and it costs you a postage stamp to try.


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## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> just saying, if I write "you cant do this" on a piece of paper that doesnt make the law any less applicable.
> 
> and it costs you a postage stamp to try.


Thank you, @TUGBrian.  I will send the letter certified tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens.

But @TUGBrian - *given what I have described - do you think the Sampler I got would be interesting to keep? Would I be able to get out of it some interesting vacations?* Someone on-line made the interesting comment that DRI's vacation model was designed prior to AirBnB and other internet access possibilities. He made the point that working on one's own one can get a much better deal for vacations than being limited to DRI properties, etc. I'm inclined to see his point.

*Some Context:* I have been planning a criss-crossing country driving trip for a couple of years. In fact - my leave date was in 2 weeks (which I have had to cancel because of this purchase) - as the $4,000 was my actual saved monies for the trip. I bought the Sampler under a complete set of altered facts (these are the internal reasons why I fell for the sell regarding the Sampler). I was clear with the salesman that I expected to be able to use it on my cross-country drive (like one would stop at Hiltons or Marriotts), and use it for one-night stays. He never corrected my misapprehensions - not even when I stood at the map and was looking at France and England for possible locations for other trips. Never told me I was limited to the U.S. and even then only to a certain number. I know - there was the contract - but let's not dwell on my stoopidity.  So you can see why the loss of this money - and the flexibility - completely derailed me when I realized what I had done. Any refund - if it comes through - will be well pass the fall timeframe I intended to take my trip - so that is a loss (which is why I am willing to reconsider the Sampler as a possible 'adventure'). But it is what it is. Can't tell you how calming finding this chat site has been. Thank you.


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## TUGBrian

generally the rule of thumb is if you have unanswered questions, you should rescind and get those questions answered first.

no sense in spending thousands of dollars to try something out especially when you could either use that same money for a few years of renting while you do research...or at that price buy any number of hundreds (if not thousands) of resale timeshares priced below that mark.

if you cancel and take some time to look into it further and decide you would want to move forward, they will be happy to have you sign up and pay them again.


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## Talya

Thank you, @TUGBrian  Am I ever on a time crunch - as I looked and I signed on the 1st - and so I am at the 7 day mark - or am I counting wrong - and it would be at midnight on the 8th? I will try to do same day delivery of a certified letter.

Just got this response from the admin of the on-line FB group that was recommended here: "I'll dispense with the usual pleasantries since you are on a bit of a time crunch. *According to state law, in AZ, a person normally has 7 calendar days (expiring at midnight) to rescind a purchase.* _The problem with the Sampler is that it is not a real estate purchase but instead a lease and therefore recession laws do not normally apply (meaning you are stuck with the Sampler)_ *BUT....some folks have stated here that they were able to get rescind their Sampler purchase in AZ so it's always worth a shot but you need to get that letter in that mail ASAP.*"


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## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> if you cancel and take some time to look into it further and decide you would want to move forward, *they will be happy to have you sign up and pay them again.*


I bet!  Never, ever again!


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## Talya

@TUGBrian I have looked at the link you supplied on another thread regarding all the proper forms to be sent with the rescind letter - but what I don't have is any details regarding what DRI wants since they did not state I could rescind in the contract.

SO.....this is what I will do - could you indicate if you think I am on the right track? I am puzzled about contract number. My contract has Plan# - I assume that is the contract number? It's the only number I can find on the document.

LETTER

_Gentlemen: 

Regarding contract Plan#000... dated  9/1/17 for purchase of a Sampler with DRI. I am exercising my legal right to cancel this contract per Arizona Law. I expect a refund of the full payment of $3,995.  Do not make any additional charges to my credit card. Please confirm my legal rescission in writing.

Sincerely,_

I will send the letter certified with return receipt to the Seller/Broker address in Las Vegas that is noted near my signature.

Should I send the first page of the Sampler contract along with the letter?

Many thanks!


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## taffy19

Do it quickly as TUBBrian suggested and the Facebook Group too.  You have nothing to lose but may end up with a positive result in rescinding your contract still.

If DRI was using unethical sales practices in Arizona, they most likely did the same in Nevada too.  I went to see if DRI had other complaints and found this website here.  There is a post on July 26 from Anitalau88 that may be of interest to you because she also mentioned about a delay.

If it doesn't work out, I would also send a complaint to the Attorney General in Nevada.  Eventually they may also go after DRI and teach them another lesson.

*Attorney General Brnovich Announces $800,000 Settlement with Diamond Resorts
Settlement Agreement Resolves Allegations of Consumer Fraud Act Violations*


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## Talya

Thank you @taffy19  I plan on hot-footing it over to the Post Office when it opens in a couple of hours to get this done. Hope! Hope! Fingers crossed.


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## clifffaith

If/when DRI denies the sampler recision, I'd go whining to my cc company in a heartbeat. I had Godaddy hit me for automatic domain name renewal in August. Called them up and said we are retiring, website has been shut down since end of last year, please process a credit. Oh the money doesn't go to us, it goes to a third party, can't cancel. Well you can cancel it now or I'll file a dispute with cc company. No can do. Called cc and five minutes later I had a credit. Two days after that comes the email from Godaddy saying my account had been closed. So continue to pursue it if DRI denies you. And you need to return that tablet, unless they tell you don't bother.


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> *If/when DRI denies the sampler recision, I'd go whining to my cc company in a heartbeat*. I had Godaddy hit me for automatic domain name renewal in August. Called them up and said we are retiring, website has been shut down since end of last year, please process a credit. Oh the money doesn't go to us, it goes to a third party, can't cancel. Well you can cancel it now or I'll file a dispute with cc company. No can do. Called cc and five minutes later I had a credit. Two days after that comes the email from Godaddy saying my account had been closed. *So continue to pursue it if DRI denies you. And you need to return that tablet, unless they tell you don't bother.*


As it happens today I called my credit card (Amex) and initiated a dispute. They are putting a hold on the payment, and initiating an investigation with the company. Apparently this comes up a lot for them - the bank rep seemed familiar with what had taken place - though he did not assure me of any outcome. I faxed them copies of my contract and the letter I certified and sent today. So now it's a waiting game. 'Twill see.

As for the tablet I would actually rather return it - it's pretty cheap. Now if they had gifted me the new iPhone8 - I'd keep that!


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> *And you need to return that tablet,* unless they tell you don't bother.


@clifffaith Are you suggesting I send the tablet now? I would assume I return it once they give me the refund and ask for it.


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## clifffaith

Talya said:


> @clifffaith Are you suggesting I send the tablet now? I would assume I return it once they give me the refund and ask for it.



No, I think I'd sit tight for now. If you do prevail, make an effort to find where to return it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they say to just keep it and good riddance to you.


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> No, I think I'd sit tight for now. If you do prevail, make an effort to find where to return it, but *I wouldn't be surprised if they say to just keep it and good riddance to you.*


Sniff You mean they won't like me anymore? No more sales presentations?  I'm crushed.  Feelings are hurt.


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## Talya

Well, verdict in and as many of you said - they are not allowing me to rescind. In a phone call, a woman said I signed the contract, and they do not go by Arizona laws (rather Nevada laws). So....I own 20,000 Sampler points. What do I do with them? How do I get a few 'nice vacations' out of them? 

AMEX is still working with my dispute but I suspect the answer will be the same: I signed the contract that says I cannot rescind.


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## dlferree

Hi Talya,

I know it was stated previously that you aren't allowed to use your sampler points for a 2br accommodation. I would double check that. We stayed in a two bedroom at Lake Tahoe in 2015 for 7500 points for a week. We also stayed in a 1br at Capistrano, Ca in 2016 for 7500. There are other places for less points if you prefer to go to those places. We only had 15,000 sampler points so only the two trips, but we enjoyed both locations. Now that you know you won't be able to rescind, you should be able to make good use of the points already purchased.


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## Talya

I will never need a 2 br - 1 br or even a studio is fine with me.


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## Talya

I am wondering - of all of these places listed that I can go to - which are stand-outs, which should be avoided? 

Locations include Arizona (Sedona, Scottsdale) - California (Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Ramona, Capistrano) - tons in Florida: Celebration, Kissimmee, Ormond Beach, Daytona, Orlando, South Beach, Miami, Miami Beach) - Hawaii (Kauai, Maui, Big Island) - Missouri (Branson) - North Carolina (Kitty Hawk, Sapphire Valley) - Nevada (Las Vegas) - Tennessee (Gatlinburg) - Virginia (Williamsburg, Virginia Beach) - and Mexico (Los Cabos - Hyatt Place).


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## taffy19

Talya said:


> Well, verdict in and as many of you said - they are not allowing me to rescind. In a phone call, a woman said I signed the contract, and they do not go by Arizona laws (rather Nevada laws). So....I own 20,000 Sampler points. What do I do with them? How do I get a few 'nice vacations' out of them?
> 
> AMEX is still working with my dispute but I suspect the answer will be the same: I signed the contract that says I cannot rescind.


Did you send your letter in and then they called you?

Ask them to send that in writing to you and then send your complaint in to the AG in Nevada and let them know that you were told the same lies as the people were in Arizona and ask him if something similar can be done that the AG in Arizona did for the many victims over there.  Send the link of what the AG did for the victims in his State and they may investigate.

If you plan to do that then you cannot start planning to use the points so you have to make up your mind what you want to do.


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## Talya

taffy19 said:


> Did you send your letter in and then they called you?


Yes - they likely got the letter on Friday - and starting yesterday they have been calling. Today I picked up and the conversation ensued.


taffy19 said:


> Ask them to send that in writing to you


That means I have to call them back. So I do that? 


taffy19 said:


> and then send your complaint in to the AG in Nevada and let them know that you were told the same lies as the people were in Arizona and ask him if something similar can be done that the AG in Arizona did for the many victims over there.  Send the link of what the AG did for the victims in his State and they may investigate.


I signed a contract that said I could not rescind - that's what she kept saying. Is that the 'same lie'? She said there was no rescind as they operate under Nevada laws (not Arizona). Thing is, I did e-mail the salesman in 3-4 days asking to rescind - he never responded.


taffy19 said:


> If you plan to do that then you cannot start planning to use the points so you have to make up your mind what you want to do.


I can plan to use them at the same time trying to get out of it. Why not?


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## clifffaith

Talya said:


> I am wondering - of all of these places listed that I can go to - which are stand-outs, which should be avoided?
> 
> Locations include Arizona (Sedona, Scottsdale) - California (Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Ramona, Capistrano) - tons in Florida: Celebration, Kissimmee, Ormond Beach, Daytona, Orlando, South Beach, Miami, Miami Beach) - Hawaii (Kauai, Maui, Big Island) - Missouri (Branson) - North Carolina (Kitty Hawk, Sapphire Valley) - Nevada (Las Vegas) - Tennessee (Gatlinburg) - Virginia (Williamsburg, Virginia Beach) - and Mexico (Los Cabos - Hyatt Place).



Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui and Sedona Summit are two of our favorites, we go to each every year. I seem to remember rules that said you can't use a sampler for back to back trips, but if that is no longer the case you might spend time on Maui followed by a stay at the Point at Poipu on Kauai. If they dare to pull one of those third rate hotel stays on you, where you then go to the real resort for the update, I'd give them the full force and favor of your disdain during the presentation.


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui and Sedona Summit are two of our favorites, we go to each every year.


Thank you.  I am being told on FB that it will be very hard/unlikely that I will be able to book Hawaii with Sampler points - but I will try as I've always wanted to see Maui (I lived on the Big Island and know it pretty well). Next Sedona visit I'd already decided to book at the Summit, so your rec is confirmation for me.  


clifffaith said:


> I seem to remember rules that said you can't use a sampler for back to back trips, but if that is no longer the case you might spend time on Maui followed by a stay at the Point at Poipu on Kauai.


Sounds excellent. Thank you for the advice. 


clifffaith said:


> If they dare to pull one of those third rate hotel stays on you, where you then go to the real resort for the update, I'd give them the full force and favor of your disdain during the presentation.


Yep.


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## izzymail

Talya said:


> Hello - I am glad to have found this site and am hoping I hear good news but have a sinking feeling that the sinking feeling I have had since this purchase will never go away.
> 
> Will not go into how I could have been so 'stoopid'  as to walk straight into this when I was seeing red flags. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I ignored every sound impulse to stop yet proceeded - why? Subliminal tapes? Water tainted? The salesman was young, good looking and very personable?  Good grief - I am embarrassed I got taken....but I never had an experience with timeshares and assumed integrity (though flashing lights were going off in my head at innumerable junctures). Okay, rant (and confession) over.....maybe...
> 
> I have some last ditch questions, hoping against hope.....
> 
> *CONTEXT:* *Five days ago I purchased a Sampler in Arizona for $3,995 *(20,000 points, 2 years - told this  would give me 3-4 weeks, or 35-40 days of vacation - this was actually written down on a separate piece of paper with the name and personal contact information of the salesperson, even though another salesperson was vehement that this should not be done, the young man did it anyway when the other salesperson was away).
> 
> I paid in full, using my Amex Card. No fees. I got a tablet as a 'gift'. Haven't turned it on. "Lifetime benefits" are Club Combo, Flexpoints, Vacation Planner.
> 
> In the contract I signed it is stated: _"The Sampler membership purchase is not a timeshare purchase and there is NO RIGHT OF RESCISSION, CANCELLATION OR REFUND." _(Yeah....stoopid, stoopid, stoopid! )
> 
> There is then a sentence regarding purchasers in Nevada not being covered by the Nevada Real Estate Division - however, the salesperson said to me that in Arizona the sale was covered by Real Estate laws. Not sure if this is important.
> 
> *QUESTIONS:* Given the above -
> 
> 1) *Can I cancel this purchase?* Regardless of the clause quoted above, do I still have 10 days to rescind this purchase? I have read on-line that a certified letter sent to the DRI address in the contract will effect cancellation - but I am also aware that maybe those people so saying didn't have that limiting clause in their contracts in 2016.
> 
> 2) *If I cannot cancel the contract via a letter to DRI, then can I do the cancellation via my Amex Card?* Or do I risk being in default if I go that route? Curiously, charges usually take a while to get posted to my Amex account - but the DRI charge got posted within 3 days. If the charge were still 'pending' (as it normally is with Amex - especially hotel charges) I think I could have supervened and cancelled the charge - not so? I am aware I need to call Amex on this.
> 
> 3) *Am I just screwed like everyone else who made this purchase?* No hope....make the best of it....chalk it up as a very expensive lesson (though far from as expensive as it could have been - at least I didn't even consider the 'payment plan' option at 20% interest  )
> 
> Okay - *do I have a prayer of a chance to rescind this?* I did e-mail the salesman asking how to cancel (I won't use his phone number - won't). I also e-mailed the resort's General Manager. No response from either.
> 
> Many thanks for any responses.



Talya,
I have been lurking on TUG for a couple months, but I had to register just to reply to your post. I had the EXACT same scenario happen back in July, so don't beat yourself up too much! Yes, we were dumb, and yes they were slick and lied and wore us down.

You are correct that we legally have no right to cancel. I called Diamond as soon as I got back from our trip and was told by a representative that it was not possible to cancel. I asked to escalate my request and told the representative about the outright lies that we were told to convince us to sign (which were if fact directly contradicted in the fine print as you mentioned!!). She only directed me to submit an "inquiry" on the website. I asked her why should could not help me (having no faith in the website inquiry) and she supposedly filled out the website inquiry for me and told me she would follow up...
Well I was not too excited about my progress at this point. I immediately took two more actions:

1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.

2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.

I received a call back from a Diamond rep soon after, but it was apparently from the website inquiry. She went through all of the standard talking points and basically told me NO very politely. I asked to speak to her supervisor, and was told she would call the next Monday (this was a Saturday). Monday came and went, and no call. I called and emailed the rep again, she said once again the supervisor would call...you get the idea.

About 2 weeks later, I got an call from an entirely different rep/department, telling me she was calling to discuss my Sampler cancellation and refund!! This was right after I received an email from the BBB letting me know that Diamond had responded to my complaint with a simple message stating that they would be reaching out to me to reach a resolution. I am confident that the refund offer was due to the BBB complaint. They actually have an OK score and apparently want to try to keep it up.


I called the rep back, and she went over the refund process. They would, within 2 weeks, FedEx a package with a mutual release agreement. I would then sign and send that back, along with the tablet, and they would process a refund to my credit card within a certain amount of time.


Unfortunately, the story does not end there. The two weeks came and went; no FedEx. I tried to reach the same rep as before, but always got voicemail and no call back. I finally called back to the main number, and eventually got a rep that put me on hold and talked to a "supervisor". I was never transferred, but she told me that the supervisor confirmed that they had discovered that the transaction was in dispute with the credit card company, and "it had already been refunded that way". They said that they were not fighting the dispute and as far as they were concerned it was a done deal.

Well, the dispute is not officially going to be closed out for another week, so I can't definitively tell you that I have successfully won my refund. However, I'm reasonably confident at this point that I will get to keep the money one way or another! I highly recommend the BBB dispute if you have not tried this. Let me know if you have any questions or want to see what I sent my credit card company and/or BBB.

Good luck!!

BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation.

Thanks,

Izzymail


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> Talya,
> I have been lurking on TUG for a couple months, but I had to register just to reply to your post. I had the EXACT same scenario happen back in July, so don't beat yourself up too much! Yes, we were dumb, and yes they were slick and lied and wore us down.
> 
> You are correct that we legally have no right to cancel. I called Diamond as soon as I got back from our trip and was told by a representative that it was not possible to cancel. I asked to escalate my request and told the representative about the outright lies that we were told to convince us to sign (which were if fact directly contradicted in the fine print as you mentioned!!). She only directed me to submit an "inquiry" on the website. I asked her why should could not help me (having no faith in the website inquiry) and she supposedly filled out the website inquiry for me and told me she would follow up...
> Well I was not too excited about my progress at this point. I immediately took two more actions:
> 
> 1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.
> 
> 2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.
> 
> I received a call back from a Diamond rep soon after, but it was apparently from the website inquiry. She went through all of the standard talking points and basically told me NO very politely. I asked to speak to her supervisor, and was told she would call the next Monday (this was a Saturday). Monday came and went, and no call. I called and emailed the rep again, she said once again the supervisor would call...you get the idea.
> 
> About 2 weeks later, I got an call from an entirely different rep/department, telling me she was calling to discuss my Sampler cancellation and refund!! This was right after I received an email from the BBB letting me know that Diamond had responded to my complaint with a simple message stating that they would be reaching out to me to reach a resolution. I am confident that the refund offer was due to the BBB complaint. They actually have an OK score and apparently want to try to keep it up.
> 
> 
> I called the rep back, and she went over the refund process. They would, within 2 weeks, FedEx a package with a mutual release agreement. I would then sign and send that back, along with the tablet, and they would process a refund to my credit card within a certain amount of time.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the story does not end there. The two weeks came and went; no FedEx. I tried to reach the same rep as before, but always got voicemail and no call back. I finally called back to the main number, and eventually got a rep that put me on hold and talked to a "supervisor". I was never transferred, but she told me that the supervisor confirmed that they had discovered that the transaction was in dispute with the credit card company, and "it had already been refunded that way". They said that they were not fighting the dispute and as far as they were concerned it was a done deal.
> 
> Well, the dispute is not officially going to be closed out for another week, so I can't definitively tell you that I have successfully won my refund. However, I'm reasonably confident at this point that I will get to keep the money one way or another! I highly recommend the BBB dispute if you have not tried this. Let me know if you have any questions or want to see what I sent my credit card company and/or BBB.
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Izzymail


Thank you, Izzymail!  When you say BBB - you mean the Better Business Bureau? If so - is it to Arizona or to Nevada - or D.C.?

It is tiring, isn't it? That's how they 'win'. 

Currently, my Amex card people are dealing with my dispute - and the charge has been removed (for the time being). The dispute takes 60 days (outside). The rep told me that it would more likely be resolved in 2 to 3 weeks. He guaranteed nothing and warned that if it didn't go my way I would have to get a lawyer - which I'm not inclined to do given the kind of money that might entail. What concerns me is if the credit card company upholds my dispute - but DRI then decides to come after me for the money some other way - and destroys my credit in the process.

I will take you up on what you sent to the BBB: _1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund._ 

and your credit card people: _2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions._

I'm thinking I need to call my credit card company to check on the status of the dispute, and maybe ask them about filing a BBB complaint.


----------



## Talya

@izzymail Did you have your experience in Sedona AZ?


----------



## clifffaith

"BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation."

Izzymail, we love our Worldmark membership! I'd recommend Worldmark  in a heartbeat!


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> Thank you, Izzymail!  When you say BBB - you mean the Better Business Bureau? If so - is it to Arizona or to Nevada - or D.C.?
> 
> It is tiring, isn't it? That's how they 'win'.
> 
> Currently, my Amex card people are dealing with my dispute - and the charge has been removed (for the time being). The dispute takes 60 days (outside). The rep told me that it would more likely be resolved in 2 to 3 weeks. He guaranteed nothing and warned that if it didn't go my way I would have to get a lawyer - which I'm not inclined to do given the kind of money that might entail. What concerns me is if the credit card company upholds my dispute - but DRI then decides to come after me for the money some other way - and destroys my credit in the process.
> 
> I will take you up on what you sent to the BBB: _1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund._
> 
> and your credit card people: _2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions._
> 
> I'm thinking I need to call my credit card company to check on the status of the dispute, and maybe ask them about filing a BBB complaint.



Yes, it is tiring! But I can be pretty persistent (OK, stubborn) 

Yes, BBB is the Better Business Bureau and I used the one in Nevada where their headquarters is listed and they seem to have an active profile.

Our presentation was actually in Vegas...

I don't want to post my email address publicly, but maybe there is a PM option where you can send me yours and I can send you that info?

Well, I suppose they could possibly come after me after losing the CC dispute, but I think they may be somewhat bound to it as part of the terms and conditions of accepting credit cards. In any case, if the credit card company allows me to win I'm considering it over at that point!!

 My dispute is not with AMEX and I know the rules are different for each card issuer. If anything AMEX is typically even more often in the cardholder's favor. Unfortunately, I imagine they will not be able to give you much of an update until their internal deadlines have passed. Also I don't think they will have any recommendations about the BBB and probably won't want to advise you on that either.

If I had to do it all over again, I might have just started with the BBB complaints to see if I could get them two proceed voluntarily. However... as I think about it,  they could have drug that out where it was beyond my time frame to dispute with the credit card company, so I'm not sure.

I want to make an important point for you and anyone else who may find themselves in this situation and read this in the future. I have no confidence that the credit card dispute alone would get me a refund. We did sign a contract specifically stating that we understood all the terms and conditions, we read it, and we had not been lied to!! LOL

If they present that to the credit card company, they would be pretty much contractually obligated to uphold the charge as valid. The exception maybe if there is a large volume or pattern of chargebacks that would warrant the card issuer siding with the card holder.

In my case, Diamond had already agreed to refund my money (likely due to the BBB complaint). When they determined that it was in dispute as a chargeback, they claim that they did not respond, or more specifically that they responded to their merchant provider saying they were not going to contest the chargeback.


----------



## izzymail

clifffaith said:


> "BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation."
> 
> Izzymail, we love our Worldmark membership! I'd recommend Worldmark  in a heartbeat!


Thank you for the encouragement! The more I learn about Worldmark, the more I like it. Its almost as good as what the Diamond folks promised they were!


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> Yes, it is tiring! But I can be pretty persistent (OK, stubborn)


I am perhaps more indicative of most - just not 'into' the _sustained _'push' necessary. Too sanguine.


izzymail said:


> Yes, BBB is the Better Business Bureau and I used the one in Nevada where their headquarters is listed and they seem to have an active profile. Our presentation was actually in Vegas...


I will do both, then. (Arizona and Nevada).


izzymail said:


> I don't want to post my email address publicly, but maybe there is a PM option where you can send me yours and I can send you that info?


I will pm you my e-mail address.


izzymail said:


> Well, I suppose they could possibly come after me after losing the CC dispute, but *I think they may be somewhat bound to it as part of the terms and conditions of accepting credit cards.* In any case, if the credit card company allows me to win I'm considering it over at that point!!


Good point. I was wondering what the leverage would be with the credit card company.

As I mentioned, the credit card rep knew at once what I was talking about and _started to tell me_ what they do - he seemed totally familiar with the scenario I was presenting. But he did caution that he could not promise me anything.


izzymail said:


> My dispute is not with AMEX and I know the rules are different for each card issuer. *If anything AMEX is typically even more often in the cardholder's favor.* Unfortunately, I imagine they will not be able to give you much of an update until their internal deadlines have passed. Also I don't think they will have any recommendations about the BBB and probably won't want to advise you on that either.


Good to know. I had a choice between 3 cards when I was paying - and decided to pull out the AMEX card because I knew (vaguely) that there would be more protections than with the other two (maybe). I was thinking in that way even as I pulled out the card - for pity's sake! Why did I do it? I was mesmerized with my 'alternate facts' - that I would be able to stay at resorts as I drove cross country. I guess. It looked like such a cool thing. And there were other people apparently buying in the large room - was that part of the snooker? Were the other groups really buying? Or were they actors in the shell game?


izzymail said:


> If I had to do it all over again, I might have just started with the BBB complaints to see if I could get them to proceed voluntarily. However... as I think about it, *they could have drug that out where it was beyond my time frame to dispute with the credit card company*, so I'm not sure.


So there is a deadline for the cc dispute - didn't know that.


izzymail said:


> *I want to make an important point for you and anyone else who may find themselves in this situation and read this in the future. I have no confidence that the credit card dispute alone would get me a refund. *We did sign a contract specifically stating that we understood all the terms and conditions, we read it, and we had not been lied to!! LOL


Okay - you are heard!


izzymail said:


> *If they present that to the credit card company, they would be pretty much contractually obligated to uphold the charge as valid. The exception maybe if there is a large volume or pattern of chargebacks that would warrant the card issuer siding with the card holder.*


Your first sentence - yes, that is how I am seeing it. Your second sentence gives me hope.


izzymail said:


> In my case, Diamond had already agreed to refund my money (likely due to the BBB complaint). When they determined that it was in dispute as a chargeback, they claim that they did not respond, or more specifically that they responded to their merchant provider saying they were not going to contest the chargeback.


Please post whether or not you actually get this resolved for real and certain.


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> I am perhaps more indicative of most - just not 'into' the _sustained _'push' necessary. Too sanguine.
> 
> I will do both, then. (Arizona and Nevada).
> 
> I will pm you my e-mail address.
> 
> Good point. I was wondering what the leverage would be with the credit card company.
> 
> As I mentioned, the credit card rep knew at once what I was talking about and _started to tell me_ what they do - he seemed totally familiar with the scenario I was presenting. But he did caution that he could not promise me anything.
> 
> Good to know. I had a choice between 3 cards when I was paying - and decided to pull out the AMEX card because I knew (vaguely) that there would be more protections than with the other two (maybe). I was thinking in that way even as I pulled out the card - for pity's sake! Why did I do it? I was mesmerized with my 'alternate facts' - that I would be able to stay at resorts as I drove cross country. I guess. It looked like such a cool thing. And there were other people apparently buying in the large room - was that part of the snooker? Were the other groups really buying? Or were they actors in the shell game?
> 
> So there is a deadline for the cc dispute - didn't know that.
> 
> Okay - you are heard!
> 
> Your first sentence - yes, that is how I am seeing it. Your second sentence gives me hope.
> 
> Please post whether or not you actually get this resolved for real and certain.


Will do! 
I should have mentioned that last time I spoke to they credit card company they confirmed that Diamond had not responded to the dispute... As long as they don't respond, I win by default! I will know for sure by the end of this month.


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> Will do!
> I should have mentioned that last time* I spoke to they credit card company they confirmed that Diamond had not responded to the dispute...* *As long as they don't respond, I win by default!* I will know for sure by the end of this month.


Well, that's a ray of hope.  As I mentioned to you in the e-mail, I have not been as articulate as you in my follow-up. And I have not gotten a promise of a refund at any point along the way - quite the reverse, the corporate office is standing by their contract in the letter I just received from them. 

I will approach the BBB, however, regardless of my doomed prognosis (so say I). Thank you for all the info.


----------



## hintok

I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG


----------



## Egret1986

hintok said:


> I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG



So glad that you saw this thread and cancelled!  Good for you!!!


----------



## Talya

hintok said:


> I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG


They allowed a cancellation just like that? You are fortunate. I'm still waiting for AMEX to make its ruling, but DRI has refused to allow me to cancel at this point.


----------



## hintok

You had 7 days to cancel the contract.  That's the reason you can't access your account and see the points chart until 2 weeks.  If you saw what you were getting for $3995.00 you would cancel earlier.  If you wait until you get your access it is too late to cancel.


----------



## Talya

hintok said:


> You had 7 days to cancel the contract.  That's the reason you can't access your account and see the points chart until 2 weeks.  If you saw what you were getting for $3995.00 you would cancel earlier.  If you wait until you get your access it is too late to cancel.


I did it all within the 7 days - sent a certified letter - they claimed that it was Nevada law that was operative, and not Arizona law. They refused to cancel.


----------



## hintok

It says on the first page of the contract, just above your signature, that you have seven days to cancel.  I don't understand why they won't honor it.  Since I am still as the resort, I returned the tablet they gave me with my letter to cancel the contract.  I am also going to follow up with a copy of the letter to the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas.  I purchased it in Caliornia, but it does not say anything about what state law governs.


----------



## Talya

hintok said:


> It says on the first page of the contract, just above your signature, that you have seven days to cancel.  I don't understand why they won't honor it.  Since I am still as the resort, I returned the tablet they gave me with my letter to cancel the contract.  I am also going to follow up with a copy of the letter to the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas.  I purchased it in Caliornia, but it does not say anything about what state law governs.


You haven't read this thread which I started. It explains what my circumstances are. They are holding me to the contract.  There is no cancellation clause on my contract. Quite the reverse. I apparently signed away my right to cancel. Stoopid me!


----------



## hintok

I am sorry, you are right.  She let me leave the sales room to check some fiancial things on my computer and I saw this thread.  It is very long and I only skimmed through it.


----------



## Talya

hintok said:


> It says on the first page of the contract, just above your signature, that you have seven days to cancel.  I don't understand why they won't honor it.  Since I am still as the resort, I returned the tablet they gave me with my letter to cancel the contract.  I am also going to follow up with a copy of the letter to *the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas.*  I purchased it in Caliornia, but it does not say anything about what state law governs.


There is a the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas? Do you have the address?


----------



## hintok

Send your letter C/O Rescission Coordinator, Diamond Resorts Financial Services, Inc., 10600 West Charleston Blvd, Las Vegas, NV 89135.
I only put the own payment on my credit card and financed the rest through Diamond Resorts.


----------



## Talya

hintok said:


> Send your letter C/O Rescission Coordinator, Diamond Resorts Financial Services, Inc., 10600 West Charleston Blvd, Las Vegas, NV 89135.
> I only put the own payment on my credit card and financed the rest through Diamond Resorts.


I paid the whole thing on my AMEX card and AMEX is doing an investigation (takes some weeks). For the duration of the investigation the money has been withdrawn from payment - so DRI does not have my money right now.

Thank you for the address - I will send my documentation to the Rescission Coordinator and copy AMEX on it. Can't hurt.


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> I am perhaps more indicative of most - just not 'into' the _sustained _'push' necessary. Too sanguine.
> 
> I will do both, then. (Arizona and Nevada).
> 
> I will pm you my e-mail address.
> 
> Good point. I was wondering what the leverage would be with the credit card company.
> 
> As I mentioned, the credit card rep knew at once what I was talking about and _started to tell me_ what they do - he seemed totally familiar with the scenario I was presenting. But he did caution that he could not promise me anything.
> 
> Good to know. I had a choice between 3 cards when I was paying - and decided to pull out the AMEX card because I knew (vaguely) that there would be more protections than with the other two (maybe). I was thinking in that way even as I pulled out the card - for pity's sake! Why did I do it? I was mesmerized with my 'alternate facts' - that I would be able to stay at resorts as I drove cross country. I guess. It looked like such a cool thing. And there were other people apparently buying in the large room - was that part of the snooker? Were the other groups really buying? Or were they actors in the shell game?
> 
> So there is a deadline for the cc dispute - didn't know that.
> 
> Okay - you are heard!
> 
> Your first sentence - yes, that is how I am seeing it. Your second sentence gives me hope.
> 
> Please post whether or not you actually get this resolved for real and certain.



OK...today was the last day of the dispute period. I called the CC company and they confirmed that the dispute has been "resolved in my favor" and the temporary credit to my account is now permanent! Although I was expecting this, it is still a big relief.

From what I can tell, I won the dispute by default because Diamond opted not to respond to it. This is what they said they would do, after they offered a refund to resolve my BBB (Better Business Bureau) complaint. GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> *OK...today was the last day of the dispute period. I called the CC company and they confirmed that the dispute has been "resolved in my favor" and the temporary credit to my account is now permanent! *Although I was expecting this, it is still a big relief.
> 
> From what I can tell, I won the dispute by default because Diamond opted not to respond to it. This is what they said they would do, after they offered a refund to resolve my BBB (Better Business Bureau) complaint. GOOD LUCK!!



How I hope this is what I can report when the time comes! I have another month to go.


----------



## Irene Parker

Talya said:


> @TUGBrian* So I send the certified letter? And who do I send it to? The Las Vegas address in my contract? What do I say - that I just want out - or do I explain why I want out, etc.?*
> 
> *What is the Arizona timeframe?
> 
> What is the Arizona Law that is supporting a request for rescinding?
> *
> BTW the initial salesperson (I had three) that delivered the really ott expensive timeshare 'sell' indicated to me that there was a class action suit against DRI in Arizona. (Talk about red flag!) I have decided that the scale of my stupidity  is because I have something to learn from all this. After 90 minutes with the first salesperson I was tired - yawning - and thought I was free to go - when the second one arrived with the Sampler offer......ach! So many points at which I should just have said 'no' and walked out.


There is no class action suit against Diamond in Arizona. There was an Attorney General investigation which resulted in an $800,000 Settlement (money gone) and an Assurance of Discontinuance issued by the AZ AG as DRI was accused of violating the AZ Consumer Fraud Act. DRI did not admit wrongdoing. The AZ AG received 400 complaints which opened the investigation and then 500 more after the press release. They are backlogged with over 900 complaints. The last report from a few weeks ago said not to expect a response until November or an answer until March 2018. There has been a class action lawsuit filed against DRI in Federal Court by a Nevada Law Firm for those who bought US Collection and were 60 when they signed. There is a statute of limitation. The best part of the Sampler is that it is not a perpetual contract and you are not locked into maintenance fees. Some of the resorts are nice. You should be able to get your moneys worth.


----------



## TUGBrian

very thankful you were successful in getting a full refund!


----------



## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> very thankful you were successful in getting a full refund!


izzymail got the refund. I have yet to hear from AMEX. DRI refused to let me out of the contract and sent me a letter to that effect, but currently they do not have any of my money because of the dispute and AMEX's investigation.


----------



## Talya

Irene Parker said:


> The best part of the Sampler is that it is not a perpetual contract and you are not locked into maintenance fees. Some of the resorts are nice. You should be able to get your moneys worth.


So if it winds up that I must keep this Sampler, that is what I am hoping for, but I would prefer not.


----------



## izzymail

TUGBrian said:


> very thankful you were successful in getting a full refund!


Me too!! Chalk one up for the little guy.


----------



## izzymail

TUGBrian said:


> very thankful you were successful in getting a full refund!


----------



## izzymail

Irene Parker said:


> There is no class action suit against Diamond in Arizona. There was an Attorney General investigation which resulted in an $800,000 Settlement (money gone) and an Assurance of Discontinuance issued by the AZ AG as DRI was accused of violating the AZ Consumer Fraud Act. DRI did not admit wrongdoing. The AZ AG received 400 complaints which opened the investigation and then 500 more after the press release. They are backlogged with over 900 complaints. The last report from a few weeks ago said not to expect a response until November or an answer until March 2018. There has been a class action lawsuit filed against DRI in Federal Court by a Nevada Law Firm for those who bought US Collection and were 60 when they signed. There is a statute of limitation. The best part of the Sampler is that it is not a perpetual contract and you are not locked into maintenance fees. Some of the resorts are nice. You should be able to get your moneys worth.


I stayed at a DRI resort in Orlando that was nice. The Sampler is not awful until you realize that you've agreed to attend a full sales presentation at every stay


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> izzymail got the refund. I have yet to hear from AMEX. DRI refused to let me out of the contract and sent me a letter to that effect, but currently they do not have any of my money because of the dispute and AMEX's investigation.


"Yet" Talya! Did you end up doing the BBB complaint?


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> "Yet" Talya! Did you end up doing the BBB complaint?



No.  I was thinking of sending a letter threatening that I would do so.


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> No.  I was thinking of sending a letter threatening that I would do so.


I would just do it! It's an easy website and gets their attention within a few days... These apparently go straight to the person on charge of managing reputation and it seems like nothing else does.


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> I would just do it! It's an easy website and gets their attention within a few days... These apparently go straight to the person on charge of managing reputation and it seems like nothing else does.


In the complaint process it mentions the complaint being 'published' - does this mean the complaint goes on-line with my real name attached?


----------



## Talya

Ah yes, here it is: "*THE TEXT OF YOUR COMPLAINT MAY BE PUBLICLY POSTED ON THE BBB WEB SITE (BBB reserves the right to not post in accordance with BBB policy).* PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE ANY PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION IN DESCRIBING THE NATURE OF YOUR COMPLAINT. BY SUBMITTING YOUR COMPLAINT, YOU ARE REPRESENTING THAT IT IS A TRUTHFUL ACCOUNT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE BUSINESS. BBB MAY EDIT YOUR COMPLAINT TO PROTECT PRIVACY RIGHTS AND TO REMOVE INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE."


----------



## Talya

Anyway, just submitted my complaint.


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> Anyway, just submitted my complaint.


Awesome... I hope that does the trick for you! Let us know... I think it took less than a week for me to get the official reply. 

And if you're not too scarred by the whole experience I would suggest looking intobuying a Worldmark contract resale... For less than the sampler cost we are getting a much better deal with a more reputable company.


----------



## Talya

*Desired Outcome Description:*
I would like a statement that the contract has been nullified and that there will be no attempt to collect the $3995. It is understood that I will send them back the tablet.


----------



## Talya

izzymail said:


> Yes, it is tiring! But I can be pretty persistent (OK, stubborn)
> 
> Yes, BBB is the Better Business Bureau and I used the one in Nevada where their headquarters is listed and they seem to have an active profile.
> 
> *I don't want to post my email address publicly, but maybe there is a PM option where you can send me yours and I can send you that info?*



@izzymail I have sent you the update this evening via e-mail. Could you look and give me some insights for when I talk to DRI tomorrow? I am puzzled by AMEX's silence. As I state, I think this may because DRI is not responding to the AMEX investigation, but I don't know really why the silence. Thank you.


----------



## Talya

I'm thinking maybe I should call the cc company to inquire on the dispute's status before I call DRI back. DRI are definitely 'reaching out to me' in direct consequence of the BBB complaint.


----------



## Talya

BREAK THROUGH!!!!!! I am so relieved!  Everyone who has helped with this bless you all! *Izzy you were so right - it looks like the BBB complaint got them moving.* This is the e-mail I received today. (I will come on later and explain more in detail what I did in this whole process - because it had some particulars done differently from Izzy).

_This email is to explain the cancellation process of your Sampler package and everything that needs to be done to finalize the cancellation. The cancellation process will go as followed:
1. In 10/15 business days from today you will receive an email to your email address at <>

2. In the Email will be a Mutual Release Agreement. I need for you to sign it and have it notarized. Please return it and the tablet if you received one, within 10 business days of receiving it.

3. Once it is received back here we will start the cancellation and refund process. All money will be refunded in the form in which it was paid.

The entire process should take no more than 30 business days to complete.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns with the cancellation process._​


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> BREAK THROUGH!!!!!! I am so relieved!  Everyone who has helped with this bless you all! *Izzy you were so right - it looks like the BBB complaint got them moving.* This is the e-mail I received today. (I will come on later and explain more in detail what I did in this whole process - because it had some particulars done differently from Izzy).
> 
> _This email is to explain the cancellation process of your Sampler package and everything that needs to be done to finalize the cancellation. The cancellation process will go as followed:
> 1. In 10/15 business days from today you will receive an email to your email address at <>
> 
> 2. In the Email will be a Mutual Release Agreement. I need for you to sign it and have it notarized. Please return it and the tablet if you received one, within 10 business days of receiving it.
> 
> 3. Once it is received back here we will start the cancellation and refund process. All money will be refunded in the form in which it was paid.
> 
> The entire process should take no more than 30 business days to complete.
> Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns with the cancellation process._​


Woo hoo!! Congrats.


----------



## Talya

My saga began with a very ill-advised purchase of a Sampler in Arizona. I have never had experience with timeshares - heard about them - but never experienced anything to do with them. I was given two nights free ($25) at a resort in Sedona with the understanding that I would attend a sales pitch. Okay.

Sales pitch lasted 90 minutes. At the end I thought I was leaving but was handed off to a younger, personable salesperson who pushed the $3995 Sampler package, good for 2 years - and there the whole thing went wobbly for me. Things the earlier salesman had said (at costs ranging upwards from $75,000 and much higher) conflated down to this $3995 Sampler. I saw the cost - made an interpretation - that I voiced to the salesman, but who never overtly denied my assumptions (one could argue he did so covertly). Basically I told him that I was about to go on a cross country trip, and had saved up $4,000 over 2 years to do just that. This Sampler looked to me like I was pre-paying my cross country lodgings at resorts as I made my way across the U.S. I thought I was getting a deal - we were now into an over 3 hour sales pitch - I was tired - and I caved, letting every normal sane habit fly out the window.

I should have -
1) Insisted on seeing all the paperwork relating to the offer, and then have taken that paperwork overnight to look at (to consult with family and friends, and google - note: I was alone in the presentation).
2) If I got told that my request to take all the paperwork overnight to study was impossible, that the offer was only good at that moment and not on the next day, WALK AWAY! And don't look back!

We won't go over the incredibly stoopid, stoopid, *stoopidity* (of me)  in not reading the contract but allowing the (older) salesman to read a synopsis of each clause that I then initialed blindly, even the clause that said I could not rescind the contract (that clause he did not read or summarize btw - he just pointed and told me to initial 'there').

[EDIT: I believe this stupid behavior - described above - on my part was a function of being quite tired - and I am an 'oldster' by some years. Just plain and simple: I was exhausted and functioning with my original 'alternate understanding' of the Sampler's usability for my purposes. At some point I went into automatic and ceased critical thinking because I thought I had already figured it out. Plus I was trusting 'the nice salesman'.  *So add to the shoulds listed below this one: If one is getting too tired: WALK AWAY! If one is no longer fresh and bouncy, WALK AWAY!*]

I should have -
3) Read every clause in the contract for myself and listened carefully to what the salesman was claiming was in the clause (if I had gotten that far to agree to sign a contract without having at least 1-3 days to go over it at my own pace). At the first sign that the salesman was altering content, WALK AWAY! And don't look back! Not a company one wants to do business with - ever! If they would lie at the sales pitch, what are they hiding in the grand scheme of things?
4) Never-Ever-Never sign a contract that says it cannot be rescinded! Full Stop.

Over the next couple of days I had buyer's remorse. I e-mailed the general manager of the resort and the salesman (who had given me his name and e-mail address - though the older salesman told him not to) - within three days of the sale. I asked how I could cancel the transaction. I never got a response.

There then followed days of anxiety as I explored on line and realized that their Sampler would be useless on my cross country trip - and that, in fact, I had to cancel my trip, which I did. (This all happened on September 1st - I had been scheduled to leave on my trip on the weekend of the 15th). As luck would have it I stumbled upon this chat site in all my googling - and started this thread. I was advised to contact a DRI Facebook page and did so. Between here and there -

I took this action (as advised) -
5) Sent a certified letter, with contract, requesting the contract be nullified and charge be cancelled, as I was in the 7 days cancellation window that by law I  could not sign away that right, no matter what the contract claimed. I sent the certified letter to DRI in Las Vegas (address in contract) just within the 7 days rescind period for Arizona (where I purchased the Sampler).
6) I initiated a dispute on the $3995 charge to my AMEX Card. Amex took the charge off my card while the investigation was in process. I also sent the cc company a copy of the certified letter sent to DRI, plus a copy of the contract.

Within 3-4 business days I received a call from DRI in Las Vegas. It was pretty cut-and-dried. I had signed agreeing there would be no rescinding of the contract. It was here on this thread I had been told I could not sign away my legal rights and I used that in my argument with the DRI sales rep. However, there was no give in the matter. No rescinding - though she may have said the situation would be 'looked into'. A few days later I received a letter stating the contract was in effect and I owed DRI $3995. That was just under 1 month ago and there it has stood.

I was waiting for the cc company to make it's decision - meanwhile dialog was going forward on this thread and Izzy came on to give a detailed rendering of what s/he had done regarding their Sampler purchase, and what it took to get a refund. We communicated by e-mail and Izzy's documentation was considerable. I just never did it, until finally Izzy urged I go the BBB route. His strong belief was that it was the BBB complaint that got the result.

So, I went on-line and submitted a BBB complaint to the Las Vegas, Nevada office. Within 3 business days the BBB e-mailed indicating that my complaint had been forwarded to DRI for resolution.

I then started getting phone calls from an unknown number with no message until finally one message was left yesterday. It was DRI asking me to call as _they had time-sensitive information on my membership. _When I called (yesterday) it was a sales rep that was going to be handling 'my case' - meaning getting me on the tablet they had given me (which I'd never opened, or turned on) to sign onto my account, and get me going on my Vacation Planner. I informed him that I had a grievance submitted to the BBB and that my cc company was doing an investigation of the charge - and all I was interested in was getting the contract nullified and my cc account free of the $3995. I had no interest in the tablet - it had not been opened - and I would gladly send it back. He said he was surprised - that he would take me off his 'caseload' - and hung up promptly before I could ask him any questions.

The speed with which all this is happening - after the BBB complaint - is dizzying. We're talking in the space of 3-4 days.

Today, I got a phone message from DRI stating that I was being offered a resolution to the situation. I was being sent an e-mail with the conditions of the refund and rescinding of the contract. If I agreed with the e-mail, I need not call the DRI agent back. I have copied and pasted the e-mail in my post above.

DONE! And I can say that *it does appear that it was the BBB complaint that got me what I wanted: rescission, and money back.*

I think it's also handy to have the credit card company as leverage.

There are some interesting time sequences in the above scenario. Izzy is very knowledgable. I'll explain in my next post. But, Izzy, please jump in!


----------



## Talya

What I think was interesting was DRI asking me to call yesterday as _they had time-sensitive information on my membership._

Consider that when I finally talked with the Rep yesterday he claimed he was calling me about opening up my tablet and getting me signed into my account. What was - in any of that - _"time-sensitive information on my membership"?_

I filed the BBB complaint on Sept 30th. My request was for DRI to issue a letter nullifying the contract with an agreement not to attempt to collect the $3,995. The BBB got back to me within the promised 3 business days to tell me that they had forwarded the complaint to DRI to settle the grievance with me. 

We are talking Tuesday to Friday - that's how quick this got resolved with the BBB complaint.

Izzy was great giving the inside skinny on how the BBB complaint process works and why it has so much oomph. As Izzy explained it, when DRI makes it's official response to the BBB they want to be able to say that they have been in contact with the person (me). DRI has a deadline (10 days) during which they have to make an official reply to the BBB. It's within that deadline that they must respond to the BBB after they get told of the complaint by the BBB. Hence, they usually want you to "accept the proposed resolution".

What fascinates me is that they were calling but leaving no message. It was a a strange area code (240 - Bethesda MD). I wouldn't pick up until they left the message identifying themselves - then I called back. Note that they not only identified who they were but said that they had _"time-sensitive information on my membership". _But once I called them back the sales rep was not doing anything with me that was _"time sensitive"_. It only makes sense if one knows that they are working with a 10 day deadline with the BBB - they must show that they got in touch with me.

So if DRI ignores or chooses not to respond to my Amex dispute, I will win by default, but the BBB complaint they respond to because it hurts their rating if they don't.

BTW it's not over in that I have yet to get the documents which Izzy never got (in the end). So we'll see. There does seem to be a common timeline and scenario to the 'resolution' though particulars are different.


----------



## Talya

What has me wondering is: had I agreed to open the tablet and sign onto my account - would that have been a defacto acceptance of the contract? Was it their last ditch effort to show BBB that I was 'using' the membership, and so not entitled to a refund?

If so, it's just so tacky.

I cannot begin to say how grateful I am for this chat site and those who helped me to negotiate through this maze. I was a genuine innocent in the whole scenario. I am saddened to realize that people will bilk some clueless (dumb) person out of small change (for a billionaire) with no backward glance at the consequences. For me, it was the loss of a pathetically thrifty cross country trip saved up for across 2 years. There were so many points at which the salesman could have said - 'You know, this isn't for you.'

However, now I have the money back, and can re-think another trip - maybe to Hawaii, where I lived for 2 years, and am always 'homesick' for. Or France. Or Iceland. Or......in the end I've decided not to drive cross country anymore. Maybe take the train (I hate flying with a passion).

So thank you all, again. So grateful.


----------



## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> *just saying, if I write "you can't do this" on a piece of paper that doesn't make the law any less applicable and it costs you a postage stamp to try.*


Can't tell you how much this one sentence changed everything, @TUGBrian. I learned an important legal point.


TUGBrian said:


> generally the rule of thumb is if you have unanswered questions, you should rescind and get those questions answered first.
> 
> no sense in spending thousands of dollars to try something out especially when you could either use that same money for a few years of renting while you do research...or at that price buy any number of hundreds (if not thousands) of resale timeshares priced below that mark.
> 
> if you cancel and take some time to look into it further and decide you would want to move forward, they will be happy to have you sign up and pay them again.


Thank you. All this from the beginning of this thread - I am re-reading the thread: it's been exactly a month since I signed on - September 6th to resolution on October 6th.


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## Talya

izzymail said:


> BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. *We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation.* Thanks, Izzymail





clifffaith said:


> *Izzymail, we love our Worldmark membership! I'd recommend Worldmark  in a heartbeat!*





izzymail said:


> Thank you for the encouragement! *The more I learn about Worldmark, the more I like it. Its almost as good as what the Diamond folks promised they were!*



Okay, so what is this Worldmark about? A forum on the chat site about it? 



izzymail said:


> *I would just do it! It's an easy website and gets their attention within a few days... These apparently go straight to the person on charge of managing reputation and it seems like nothing else does.*



Thank you, @izzymail - your unfailing prodding made me act last Saturday - and here I am 6  days later rescinded!


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## Talya

izzymail said:


> Awesome... I hope that does the trick for you! Let us know... *I think it took less than a week for me to get the official reply. *


As it has for me. 

The trick of it seems to be that DRI is conscious and careful of it's BBB reputation (in Nevada anyway). With a company that could care less, the outcome wouldn't be the same, not so?


izzymail said:


> And if you're not too scarred by the whole experience *I would suggest looking intobuying a Worldmark contract resale... For less than the sampler cost we are getting a much better deal with a more reputable company.*


I am definitely interested.  Will look into it.


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## Talya

@taffy19 Thank you for all your help on the thread.  Very grateful!


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## Egret1986

I'm glad hear TUG was beneficial in assisting you "right" your DRI mistake.  Awesome!


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## Talya

@clifffaith Thank you for your help on the thread!


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## izzymail

I'm so glad that this worked for you! You may have had to cancel the trip for now, but you have your hard saved money back to plan something new.

Yes, they do seem to care about their BBB reputation. The BBB is quasi-regulatory in many people's mind (their business model is a whole nother topic) and if DRI didn't care about their rating it would not help a bit because they can't actually enforce any outcome on a company. I'm curious what would have happened to us both if we just rode out the credit card dispute, but I was personally not prepared to take the chance that they fax over a copy of the contract and it would be "game over"...

Honestly I think all the phone calls (except the last one) could have just been their onboarding process to get you to use the sampler points. They do like the $4k but the real game is to get you back in the sales "ring" to get some serious $$$ from you with ownership. However it could be that they were making a last ditch try to get you to "activate" the points and kill your chances at a cancellation. I'm sure you have figured it out already, but DRI points have negative value and can't even be given away... Yet every single day people are being pressured into purchasing them at retail.

BTW the tablet is absolute crap... Looks very nice and shiny on the outside, but once you get inside it is Ugly (crashes constantly, slow)... I think  it's the perfect metaphor for DRI!

I'm grateful for this forum as well... I have learned so much. To answer your question about WorldMark, yes there is a thread under the Wyndham section that explains their unique system really well. There is also a forum at Wmowners.com that is great. While it is not a perfect program (what is?) it seems to me that WorldMark owners are among the happiest around. The program really fits my goals and needs well!

Congrats again and I'm glad my experience (and prodding at the risk of being annoying) helped!


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## Talya

izzymail said:


> I'm so glad that this worked for you! You may have had to cancel the trip for now, but you have your hard saved money back to plan something new.


Thank you, Izzy.  And quite right. Having a nice fall at home as it turns out. A beautiful fall here in L.A. Doing small day trips.


izzymail said:


> Yes, they do seem to care about their BBB reputation. The BBB is quasi-regulatory in many people's mind (their business model is a whole nother topic) and if DRI didn't care about their rating it would not help a bit because they can't actually enforce any outcome on a company. *I'm curious what would have happened to us both if we just rode out the credit card dispute*, but I was personally not prepared to take the chance that they fax over a copy of the contract and it would be "game over"...


I am wondering, too. I think going both routes is helpful - but what I was also concerned about was getting their attention with the BBB complaint in the wrong way. Meaning, I would win the cc dispute by default but with the BBB complaint they might dig in their heels.

I will say this - I used every ounce of my gravelly, unpleasant, 'business' voice with the last fella trying to get me to open up my tablet and 'walk me through the Vacation Planner'. I made it clear I wanted this whole thing ended and ended fast. Hence his quick hang-up. Could that have had a bearing? Might well have - as in this (truly) crazy world one never knows where a person might take their upset, not so? Tragic to say that, but there is some validity. 

Am curious about the BBB business model. Intriguing words - care to elaborate?


izzymail said:


> Honestly I think all the phone calls (except the last one) could have just been their onboarding process to get you to use the sampler points.


Those calls only came in after the BBB complaint got forwarded to them - they seemed unconcerned about my failure to 'sign-up' to my account prior. So yes, they wanted to get me to do something that would have compromised me and made any refund impossible in the eyes of both the cc company and the BBB. Tricky.


izzymail said:


> They do like the $4k but the real game is to get you back in the sales "ring" to get some serious $$$ from you with ownership.


I see what you're saying: on the phone the pitch would have continued. Hadn't considered that.


izzymail said:


> However it could be that they were making a last ditch try to get you to "activate" the points and kill your chances at a cancellation.


This is what I think they were doing as I look back at it, given they were responding to the BBB complaint.


izzymail said:


> I'm sure you have figured it out already, but *DRI points have negative value* and can't even be given away... Yet every single day people are being pressured into purchasing them at retail.


I'm not sure I know this (because I didn't actually enter the system and try to use them) but I trust you are correct. I was still functioning with the salesman's initial assurance that the 20,000 points would get me 3-4 weeks of vacation, and possibly 6 weeks, depending on how I used the points. I certainly read what people have been saying about the points actually not being useable the way advertised in the sales pitch. 


izzymail said:


> BTW the tablet is absolute crap... Looks very nice and shiny on the outside, but once you get inside it is Ugly (crashes constantly, slow)... I think  it's the perfect metaphor for DRI!


That's what I was guessing might be the case. I have a brand new MacBook and I didn't think anything (anyway  ) could come up to snuff beside my new burnished-gold slim-line MacBook. 


izzymail said:


> I'm grateful for this forum as well... I have learned so much. To answer your question about WorldMark, yes there is a thread under the Wyndham section that explains their unique system really well. There is also a forum at Wmowners.com that is great. While it is not a perfect program (what is?) it seems to me that WorldMark owners are among the happiest around. The program really fits my goals and needs well!
> 
> Congrats again and I'm glad my experience (and prodding at the risk of being annoying) helped!


 Appreciated your prodding. Appreciate that you didn't give up. 

BTW, I have wondered how I could have been so duped, and I've realized that a lot of it was because of the initial presentation (of 90 minutes) that presented an amazing vision of vacations, but with very high entry costs and on-going fees. When the second salesman enters the picture - after 90 minutes - I am tired, and I am continually conflating this new bit - the Sampler Package - with what the first salesman had been peddling. This has to be intentional. They know people will do this conflation. Human nature.

I believe the stupid behavior on my part - regarding not reading the contract clauses and relying on the salesman's verbal  'summary' - was a function of being quite tired - and I am an 'oldster' by some years. Just plain and simple: I was exhausted and functioning with my original 'alternate understanding' of the Sampler's usability for my purposes. I've decided I can't underestimate that exhaustion - and it's a lesson learned for me.

*At some point I went into automatic *and ceased critical thinking *because I thought I had already figured it out.* (Which is when they start to switch things up - change the details - like the cost per point). Plus I was trusting 'the nice salesman'.  *So add to the shoulds listed in my long post going over the whole process this one: If one is getting too tired: WALK AWAY! If one is no longer fresh and bouncy, WALK AWAY!

And likely the most important - which is a hard one for me - forget about being nice and not offending. If someone is trying to sell you something assume they are more interested in themselves than in your best interests. WALK AWAY and let them be offended. WALK AWAY even though you've 'wasted their time'. People being polite likely gets them lots of sales, I am thinking.

But most important: any Red Flags (and there were so many) - just WALK AWAY! 

Last Bit: Never sign anything the day you first see the document in front of you. If you can't have a day (or three) to think about it before signing, something is off! WALK AWAY!*


----------



## Iggyearl

Congratulations to both of you for sharing your experiences and providing the internet with a first-hand experience of solving a "Diamond Resorts problem."  Hopefully, this thread will live on in perpetuity and be useful to others who fall into a similar circumstance.  I have "studied" timeshare for 5 years.  I don't own one, but have rented on occasion.  The subject enthralls me, and I love to read about successful outcomes.

I think you would admit that your situations might be different if TUG did not exist.  Brian and his father deserve a lot of credit for starting and maintaining this website.  I would humbly suggest that you step up and show your appreciation by spending the lowly $15 to join this site.  Although I am not a part of the industry, I am happy to say that "I am a TUG member."  Best of luck.


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## Talya

They are moving fast. Today I received the e-mail with the Mutual Release and Termination of THE SamplerSM Membership Agreement -  to be signed and notarized and sent back. I'll be doing that tomorrow.

BTW @izzymail I have a question: the BBB sent my complaint to DRI for resolution. Did the BBB read what I wrote and make a determination as to whether I had a valid grievance? In forwarding the complaint were they in effect instructing DRI to settle?

Does the BBB forward all complaints to a business for resolution regardless of calibre? Or are they making assessments given what they read in the initial complaint? In effect, is the nature of the grievance and (possibly) the supporting documentation one sends along with one's complaint key to the BBB sending the complaint to the business for resolution?


----------



## izzymail

Talya said:


> They are moving fast. Today I received the e-mail with the Mutual Release and Termination of THE SamplerSM Membership Agreement -  to be signed and notarized and sent back. I'll be doing that tomorrow.
> 
> BTW @izzymail I have a question: the BBB sent my complaint to DRI for resolution. Did the BBB read what I wrote and make a determination as to whether I had a valid grievance? In forwarding the complaint were they in effect instructing DRI to settle?
> 
> Does the BBB forward all complaints to a business for resolution regardless of calibre? Or are they making assessments given what they read in the initial complaint? In effect, is the nature of the grievance and (possibly) the supporting documentation one sends along with one's complaint key to the BBB sending the complaint to the business for resolution?


Ok my understanding is that they forward all complaints. They expect the business to respond and I think they get bonus points if you "accept" the resolution. I think the key is that the BBB complaint gets to someone who CARES about the company's reputation and has the POWER to resolve it  (aka offer a refund).


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## Talya

Thank you, @izzymail


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## TUGBrian

congrats on rescinding!

also there is a dedicated worldmark forum right here on TUG with plenty of wm owners to answer your questions should you want to look more into that system.  it and wyndham points are very popular for first time buyers (resale of course)!

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?forums/worldmark-the-club.60/


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## Larry M

Talya, I just wanted to say that I am impressed with your wisdom, persistence, and self-awareness. Way too many people would have just let the money go.


----------



## Talya

Larry M said:


> Talya, I just wanted to say that I am impressed with your wisdom, persistence, and self-awareness. Way too many people would have just let the money go.


Thank you, @Larry M - but it has to be stressed that I succeeded because of a combination of this site (TUG), the FB Friends of DRI page, @izzymail in particular but others on this thread, too.

Some final thoughts: none of this would have occurred had I not acted quickly. In sum, there are usually deadlines - 3 days, 7 days, 10 days. I've learned some deadlines are (perhaps) universal - like the 3 days for buyer's remorse, but most are unique to particular states, and can be (conveniently) used to the benefit of the seller (where the 'thing' was bought as opposed to the location of the corporation). DRI did this latter to me - arguing that Nevada law (where their corporate office is located) supervened Arizona (where I made my purchase).

The 'black-out' was for 20 days from signing thus conveniently covering all possible timeframes for deadlines to be able to cancel.

@TUGBrian 's statement that one cannot sign away one's rights was pivotal (for me) - though in the end using it in my argument with the first DRI rep did not effect any positive outcome for me. I would have used it with the cc company if it came to that.

Most important was the timeline with the cc company - because one has a certain amount of time to dispute the charge with the cc company (in this case Amex). After that the charge stands.

So lessons learned -
1) Time is of the essence: within 3 days make your intention to cancel the transaction known to as many entities as possible.
2) Initiate a dispute with the cc company (Amex seems very good about this) ASAP.  The very next day if possible, but get that rolling within the cc company deadline for disputes (whatever that may be for the cc used).
3) Then start rolling with the larger dispute timeframe: find out the cancellation timeframe for the state you made the purchase in, and follow their guidelines. Cover yourself by finding out the location of the corporate offices and the cancellation timeframes and guidelines for that state (if different from purchase state).
4) Finally, if none of the above gets you what you want, initiate the BBB complaint. Izzymail's posts on this thread are important to see the scale of backup work done to substantiate the complaint. In my case I did a write-up on-line but sent no supporting documents. That seemed enough - though the context may be that the DRI Sampler is a well-known entity for the Las Vegas NV BBB office. (Speculation on my part).

Biggest lesson of all: just don't go there to begin with. Don't allow oneself to get rushed to sign (always take at least 1 night to think it over, if not 3 nights); don't believe for an instant that a 'deal' won't be available the next day and so 'must' be signed there and then; don't sign any contract you haven't read yourself  and don't sign a contract that claims it cannot be rescinded.

But if the unthinkable happens and you still get snookered: speed is of the essence. Paying by credit card seems key, too. More leverage. And it looks like the BBB is a serious friend of the abused consumer (for a company that cares about reputation). The former impacts a credit rating for the corporation, and the latter a reputation rating. Short of hiring a lawyer, it's all we small fries have got to correct a moment of indiscretion.


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## TUGBrian

rights of rescission are state based...and are always from the state the contract was signed in.   it definitely does not matter where the company is based out of, or what state the buyer lives in!

your point is very important though as its not uncommon for companies to use sales contracts that may or may not have been drawn up for that state (and instead perhaps where the company is based if different).

while they will of course always claim it was a "mistake" or an "oversight"...a company as large as DRi knows full well what the legal right of rescission is in every state they have a sales office in!


----------



## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> *rights of rescission are state based...and are always from the state the contract was signed in.   it definitely does not matter where the company is based out of, or what state the buyer lives in!*


So important to hear this again. For anything.

I 'only just' made the 7 day deadline for Arizona, but in my case, because I had signed a document that said it could not be cancelled, the first DRI rep went by that, and also mentioned Nevada law operating (which I believe is 3 days?). They were not giving me any wiggle room - and there it sat. We will never know if I would have 'won' by default with the cc dispute. What snapped them to attention was the BBB complaint.



TUGBrian said:


> your point is very important though as *its not uncommon for companies to use sales contracts that may or may not have been drawn up for that state (and instead perhaps where the company is based if different). while they will of course always claim it was a "mistake" or an "oversight"... a company as large as DRi knows full well what the legal right of rescission is in every state they have a sales office in!*


Yet they denied me even so. Signing a contract with a no rescind clause was the problem. That's what they were basing the refusal.


----------



## TUGBrian

so very sorry they tried their best to get you to ignore state law and just accept your fate....chances are that 9 out of 10 people faced with your same situation would have just "let it go" and let DRi keep the money.

and that is even more depressing.


----------



## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> *so very sorry they tried their best to get you to ignore state law and just accept your fate....chances are that 9 out of 10 people faced with your same situation would have just "let it go" and let DRi keep the money.
> 
> and that is even more depressing.*


Exactly so.  In my case it was a huge loss of funds. Not minor at all. And I am not necessarily alone in that.

Hopefully this thread will be a beacon for others who find themselves in the same fix. I did see, though, as I looked over the timeframe sequence of my experience, that in some ways I was very lucky with the deadlines, especially for someone who was so clueless to begin with. Says everything about those - like yourself - who responded so quickly to my plea for help. Thank you.


----------



## Talya

So.....after all of that......I get an e-mail this last week from the BBB asking me if DRI contacted me as DRI have not been in communication with the BBB regarding the complaint. What? 

So I indicate to BBB what has occurred: rescission and money back. Send them copies of the DRI e-mail delineating the resolution, etc. BBB thanks me for the information. 

I am impressed with the BBB. Had no idea they were such an efficient organization. 

Given the above, however, I will be calling my cc company to make sure they know that there has been a rescission and refund. Not sure I trust DRI to make sure all the corners are square.

AND....I am now getting calls from DRI to use a free 3/4 night/day stay at any of their resorts - they'll increase the stay to 4 nights/5 days. At least that's what one rep said in her VoiceMail. I can barely make out the sales reps in the VoiceMails. However, with the call today, the sales rep was a little more clear in her VoiceMail, and I realize they are trying to get me to use a freebie I had actually signed up for - and had a $150 temporary charge to my cc to 'hold' the freebie (to be refunded when I use the freebie) - last May when I stayed at the same Sedona resort. I knew that was hanging out there and was waiting to get the papers out and use it - but I am heartened that they are keeping track of these outliers and seem to want to keep the bargain made. I will oblige - though I know there will be a sales meeting for which I will be fortified.


----------



## clifffaith

What?! Tell them you want your $150 back because of your story above and you don't want the freebie. Why would you want anything to do with DRI at this point? And I say this while sitting in my pajamas in the DRI resort in Santa Fe.


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## Talya

clifffaith said:


> What?! Tell them you want your $150 back because of your story above and you don't want the freebie. *Why would you want anything to do with DRI at this point?* And I say this while sitting in my pajamas in the DRI resort in Santa Fe.



I certainly won't be signing up for anything - but it's a free 4 night/5 day stay. Nothing to sneeze at. 

Santa Fe you say? Weather nice?


----------



## taffy19

Talya said:


> So.....after all of that......I get an e-mail this last week from the BBB asking me if DRI contacted me as DRI have not been in communication with the BBB regarding the complaint. What?
> 
> So I indicate to BBB what has occurred: rescission and money back. Send them copies of the DRI e-mail delineating the resolution, etc. BBB thanks me for the information.
> 
> I am impressed with the BBB. Had no idea they were such an efficient organization.
> 
> Given the above, however, I will be calling my cc company to make sure they know that there has been a rescission and refund. Not sure I trust DRI to make sure all the corners are square.
> 
> AND....I am now getting calls from DRI to use a free 3/4 night/day stay at any of their resorts - they'll increase the stay to 4 nights/5 days. At least that's what one rep said in her VoiceMail. I can barely make out the sales reps in the VoiceMails. However, with the call today, the sales rep was a little more clear in her VoiceMail, and I realize they are trying to get me to use a freebie I had actually signed up for - and had a $150 temporary charge to my cc to 'hold' the freebie (to be refunded when I use the freebie) - last May when I stayed at the same Sedona resort. I knew that was hanging out there and was waiting to get the papers out and use it - but I am heartened that they are keeping track of these outliers and seem to want to keep the bargain made. I will oblige - though I know there will be a sales meeting for which I will be fortified.


If you accept the offer, DRI may activate your contract again and you will be on the hook for the money that your contract was for originally (3,995.00).

Do you really feel that a free trip is worth all the aggravation that you may have to deal with a second time?  Throw these invitations out or unsubscribe from their mailing list and forward the email to the BBB and your credit card company so they know how sneaky they are and some people may also fall for the trap.


----------



## Talya

taffy19 said:


> *If you accept the offer, DRI may activate your contract again and you will be on the hook for the money that your contract was for originally (3,995.00).*


Hadn't thought of that.  They owe me my $150 back or a freebie. It's not a question of 'accepting' an offer - unless you mean the added night/day. I paid a 'marker' of $150 to be refunded when I used the freebie. I can't see that it would be conflated with the Sampler purchase/rescission. @TUGBrian what do you think?


taffy19 said:


> Do you really feel that a free trip is worth all the aggravation that you may have to deal with a second time?  *Throw these invitations out or unsubscribe from their mailing list and forward the email to the BBB and your credit card company so they know how sneaky they are and some people may also fall for the trap.*


Not e-mails - these are phone calls. Won't be able to talk to them until tomorrow (Monday). The VoiceMail message says the rep is 'at home'. Not being e-mails I have nothing to send to the BBB. 

At the time that I went back to the resort the second time and they gave me the 'deal' of two nights for $25 (I was a walk-in) I didn't have my paperwork for the deal I had signed up for on my previous visit in May. I said nothing to them because I thought I had to have the paperwork to get the deal. Now that I think about it, I possibly showed up in their system as having that 3/4 deal. Maybe. But they were booked starting the weekend - and would not have been able to lodge me for the full 3/4 anyway, so I took the 2 nights, which meant I didn't get my $150 refunded to my cc as would have been the case had I been using that 3/4 deal. I guess.

I can live with losing $150 but I will ask them to refund me the $150 as suggested. They may state that I can only get the money back if I stay the 3/4, or accept the 'upgrade' to 4/5. How could that transaction get conflated with the Sampler business?


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## TUGBrian

never hurts to ask.


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## taffy19

TUGBrian said:


> never hurts to ask.


You were right the first time.  If I were in her place, I wouldn't chance staying there.  Walk away from $150 is a lot better than walking away from almost $4000!


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## Talya

TUGBrian said:


> never hurts to ask.


Ask what, @TUGBrian ? Ask to get the $150 back?

If they say no, I must do the freebie, then should I just do 3/4 or accept the upgrade to 4/5? Maybe I ask for the offer in an e-mail (in writing) with a clear statement that the freebie is not connected to the Sampler dispute/contract, which stands as resolved.

Another avenue is when I call Amex to verify that the Sampler charge is not to be re-instated, I could mention the $150, though I believe in that instance I am long since past the dispute window for the cc charge.


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## Talya

taffy19 said:


> You were right the first time.  If I were in her place, I wouldn't chance staying there.  Walk away from $150 is a lot better than walking away from almost $4000!


I agree, @taffy19  - but I now have a sneaking suspicion that they knew I had outlaid the $150 and purposely ignored it, so that those 2 free nights actually did cost me $175. That's $87.50 a night and as a walk-in that's about as good as it gets at a resort in Sedona in a very nice 1 bedroom. So.....I'd be willing to let this go.

Still want to call them to see what's what. Or do you think even that is ill-advised? Thing is I am on their books and will likely be getting these calls till the cows come home unless I settle with them in some way. I guess.


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## clifffaith

Talya said:


> I certainly won't be signing up for anything - but it's a free 4 night/5 day stay. Nothing to sneeze at.
> 
> Santa Fe you say? Weather nice?



A bit on the nippy side for us Los Angelenos.  We went out to breakfast in jackets and vests, with a scarf for me -- mid 50s.


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## izzymail

Talya said:


> I agree, @taffy19  - but I now have a sneaking suspicion that they knew I had outlaid the $150 and purposely ignored it, so that those 2 free nights actually did cost me $175. That's $87.50 a night and as a walk-in that's about as good as it gets at a resort in Sedona in a very nice 1 bedroom. So.....I'd be willing to let this go.
> 
> Still want to call them to see what's what. Or do you think even that is ill-advised? Thing is I am on their books and will likely be getting these calls till the cows come home unless I settle with them in some way. I guess.



Just FYI....I am still getting calls from DRI asking if I'm ready to book my first "Sampler" trip. After I tell them it was cancelled, they pause for a moment and then say something like "Oh yes, I see that now, I will make sure our system gets updated"... only to call back in a couple weeks. I also kept getting Sampler promotional emails until I unsubscribed. I think they are so just disorganized that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.

Personally I don't think it would affect your agreement with the Sampler UNLESS they somehow categorized it as a Sampler trip and/or used your Sampler points to book the trip Also of concern, I was "awarded" a free trip at our visit as one of our original "rewards", but while we were buying the Sampler they told us that we would not be eligible to take them up on that until AFTER the 2 year Sampler period was over. I would probably just try to get my $150 back. If you really wanted to book the trip, I would wait until everything is completely finalized with the refund/dispute. Also be prepared for a 3+ hour session! Unless you just inform your representative that you have filed complaints about their sales process before, that might "expedite" your visit . However once they determine your history, they could try to hold back on your reward or charge you "retail" price for the stay as it states in the fine print, by saying that you were not a "qualified prospect" for the offer (I have not experienced this but I have read stories like this). For this reason personally I would try to get my $$$ back and RUN!


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## Talya

izzymail said:


> Just FYI....I* am still getting calls from DRI asking if I'm ready to book my first "Sampler" trip. *After I tell them it was cancelled, they pause for a moment and then say something like "Oh yes, I see that now, I will make sure our system gets updated"... only to call back in a couple weeks. I also kept getting Sampler promotional emails until I unsubscribed. *I think they are so just disorganized that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.*



I guess.  I haven't called them back yet (life has been happening, as it is prone to do). However, after two reps left their information, a week or so went by and I then started getting more calls (same number) but with no messages. Plus they call me at  ungodly hours, like 6:00 a.m. Today they called at 6:45 a.m. and I decided to answer the phone - and guess what? I heard the exchange in the background (noises, voices, etc), but whoever called hung up without saying anything.  Can you beat that!



izzymail said:


> Personally I don't think it would affect your agreement with the Sampler UNLESS they somehow categorized it as a Sampler trip and/or used your Sampler points to book the trip Also of concern, I was "awarded" a free trip at our visit as one of our original "rewards", but while we were buying the Sampler they told us that we would not be eligible to take them up on that until AFTER the 2 year Sampler period was over.



Interesting what they do. 



izzymail said:


> I would probably just try to get my $150 back. If you really wanted to book the trip, *I would wait until everything is completely finalized with the refund/dispute.*



Which has just happened btw. The end of last week the money got plopped back into my account creating a negative balance since Amex has removed the charge pending the outcome of the investigation. I called Amex and they told me that they would re-instate the charge, thus cancelling the credit out. I also asked them if DRI never contacted them would I have won the dispute by default. They said yes, I would have.

Consider the timing of those first two calls I got, though. First the two calls which left information for me to call back but did not get a response from me, and a few days later the money is refunded. It seems too detailed to be an intentional attempt to continue the scam with me. I can't believe they would be functioning at that level of premeditated nasty. I think you're right, they don't know what all their 'parts' are doing. It just looks very bad. The cosmetics are not good. People then draw unfortunate conclusions.



izzymail said:


> Also be prepared for a 3+ hour session! Unless you just *inform your representative that you have filed complaints about their sales process before, that might "expedite" your visit* . *However once they determine your history, they could try to hold back on your reward or charge you "retail" price for the stay as it states in the fine print, by saying that you were not a "qualified prospect" for the offer (I have not experienced this but I have read stories like this)*.



Thank you for this. I had been wondering about this possibility, in fact. Better just to be done with them. I agree. 



izzymail said:


> *For this reason personally I would try to get my $$$ back and RUN!*



I will call one of the reps back to discuss the situation. Hopefully I will get the $150 back, but if not, I can say: lesson learned, and walk on, and feel okay.  The $87.50 each for those two nights was an okay deal (for me as a walk-in given what I got for a room).

BTW I usually do a late walk-in and get great rates. One has to be willing to not get a room, of course, but if one has the flexibility (and I usually do) one can get some great deals. But also my needs are not great. I'm okay with simple rooms, etc. (I don't travel the way TUGgers do, methinks). But recently I got a suite at a Marriott for the price of a walk-in. Three nights. It was great. 

P.S. I'll let you know the final outcome of the $150. 

P.P.S. And as always, thank you for sharing your street-savvy wisdom, @izzymail.


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## Egret1986

izzymail said:


> I think they are so just disorganized that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.



As an involuntary DRI owner (resorts acquired by DRI), it is unbelievable how disorganized this company appears to be in all departments.  It requires so much time and energy to "right" things with them.


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## Talya

@Anres Place your questions on this thread rather than in a conversation to me.  More people will see your questions and be available to answer, especially TUGBrian.


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## Talya

BTW just to wrap up regarding the $150.  Nothing is ever 'simple' with DRI it seems, but there are good people in their system.

I kept getting sales calls from DRI to initiate the 3/4 vacation, until I returned the call of one sales rep whose message was enunciated and clear. This man was amazingly sympathetic. He was trying to sell me, and he started telling me that the $150 was for 'coupons' (or something, I am hazy on that, but he was telling me it was in the system as a purchase of something). I was adamant that I had been told it was a 'hold' and would be refunded after I attended the sales pitch. I told him about my Sampler purchase and the Sampler refund and the complaint to the BB. I told him I could no longer do business with DRI. He put me on hold and came back on assuring me that the $150 would be refunded - that someone 'seriously high up' was approving the refund, as was he. I would be called within 3 days - by the coming Monday - by someone who would confirm the refund with me. Okay.

What follows were many calls from the sales number (area code 240 - strangely - which is Maryland). Some leave messages but most do not, and not all calls but most calls are coming through at very early in the morning.

Finally I am able to pick up and I get a sales rep that gives me a phone number and extension I am to call 'in case we get disconnected'. (This is new). He states, very purposely: "Do you agree to this?" I say yes even though I have not been able to write down the phone number and extension number. He seems delighted with my answer and within seconds of my saying I agree, we get disconnected. 

I still have the phone number and extension of the previous sales rep who assured me of a refund so I figure I will call him. It's way past the 3-day deadline for the confirming call. However, life is busy and complicated and days slip by. Maybe a week or more has past - early last week I noticed a credit showing up in my Amex account - and sure enough - DRI has refunded me the $149. Done.

So there were at least two people in the DRI system that not only behaved well, but one of those people (I am assuming) followed up on the agreement to me to refund and made sure it happened without the 'confirmation call' with me. So.

What a learning experience! But alls well that ends well.


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## Egret1986

Talya said:


> BTW just to wrap up regarding the $150.  Nothing is ever 'simple' with DRI it seems, but there are good people in their system.
> 
> What a learning experience! But alls well that ends well.



Yes, there are some good people in their system, no doubt.  But they are hard to find and go against the grain.  DRI does a good "smoke and mirrors" job in pretending to be all about the owners and "staying vacationed."  Thank goodness for the good people in their system.  I have found a couple.  I had several resorts where I owned and was happy.  Then DRI acquired them and changed things to the detriment of my happiness as an owner. I am currently trying to extricate myself from this relationship.  I don't like how they do business. 

Yes, all's well that ends well.  I'm happy for those that put up the good fight and are victors in the end.  

Way to go!


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## Talya

Egret1986 said:


> I had several resorts where I owned and was happy.  Then DRI acquired them and changed things to the detriment of my happiness as an owner. *I am currently trying to extricate myself from this relationship.* I don't like how they do business.



Curiously, @Egret1986 , this past week I was listening to Sirius in my car and an ad came up for a company that helps people get out of timeshares. Now that could be as much of a scam as the timeshare companies themselves, but maybe there are people who do know how to do the extrication.  One would hope so. My 'wins' were small potatoes - $149 and $3995 - I can only guess at the grief when its tens of thousands of dollars at stake, especially in these times.


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## Egret1986

Talya said:


> Curiously, @Egret1986 , this past week I was listening to Sirius in my car and an ad came up for a company that helps people get out of timeshares. Now that could be as much of a scam as the timeshare companies themselves, but maybe there are people who do know how to do the extrication.  One would hope so. My 'wins' were small potatoes - $149 and $3995 - I can only guess at the grief when its tens of thousands of dollars at stake, especially in these times.



There's lots and lots of threads here on TUG about companies that say they can help people get out of their timeshares.  These companies charge upfront fees and have different MO's, but essentially all are scams.  Just like the timeshare developers, their main objective is separating you from your cash.  Once they have your upfront cash, there is little incentive to do anything more and most don't.  Some may put a listing up for the timeshare that is over-priced and will find no takers.  They don't care, they've already made their money by charging thousands upfront with promises and lies just like the unscrupulous developers.  Others simply do nothing and disappear with the cash.  The grief escalates because those poor folks fell for the scam and have lost more of their money and still own the timeshare. 

Fortunately, you were proactive and took action, and with the support of Tuggers you came out a winner.  Congratulations!


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## mrswolfe

Hi Everyone, 
I hope someone can help me. Very stupidly signed up to the Sample package in Las Vegas. We had just started our vacation and thought we were at the check in desk of the hotel. Next thing we know we have been persuaded to attend the DRI presentation.
We went to the presentation fully knowing we would not buy a timeshare; but somehow got talked into buying a sample package (5hrs later). I remember asking specific questions and we were told:
1. Yes, we would use points for tickets, car rentals and accommodation ( we could also use for shopping they said
2. We could use for any location. The rep even showed me a map on the wall that had a listing of “where we could go”
We stupidly signed, got home to begin planning and found out all the details in the contract with no option to cancel.

Next day returned to their Polo Towers location and started getting the run around( they don’t have the power to do anything, write to their head office bla bla bla). I wrote and got the so-called marketing manager to acknowledge receipt. I also sent a copy by certified mail. What else Can I do but wait and hope? I made a down payment of about $400 and financed the rest (I didn’t even know interest was at 20% till I was reading the contract at home).
Anything else I can do?


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## Passepartout

If I understand correctly that you sent the rescission letter to the Business office within the legal timeframe (by midnight of 5th calendar day), you should be fine, and get all your money back.

Glad you found us in time. Merry Christmas!

Jim


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## Passepartout

Oh, I guess I didn't answer your question. Nope. It looks like you did what you could. And they have 45 days to refund the payment and don't have to notify you. I know it's stressful, but stay off the phones with them. One thing, if they DO call you, you'll know they are working on the rescission.


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## mrswolfe

I thought I was screwed as the contract said there was no right of rescission. Truly glad I found this site or my holiday would have been totally ruined with worrying. I usually research before I commit to things. Serious lapse in judgement on my part! Will keep you all posted. Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a great holiday season!


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## Egret1986

mrswolfe said:


> I thought I was screwed as the contract said there was no right of rescission. Truly glad I found this site or my holiday would have been totally ruined with worrying. I usually research before I commit to things. Serious lapse in judgement on my part! Will keep you all posted. Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a great holiday season!





Merry Christmas!!!!


----------



## tschwa2

Just as a warning while all states mandate a rescission period for timeshares not all states have such a law regarding vacation sampler/discovery packages.  Just because someone could rescind in Arizona doesn't mean that you can when purchased in Nevada.  I am pretty sure that DRI does not honor rescission of sampler packages if you purchased in a state without a mandated rescission period.  The fact that your contract states no rescission is a bad sign as I don't think DRI would be so brazen as to put something like that in writing as a part of a legal contract if it violated state law.  I think you might as well try because if you didn't send in the rescission request you would have no possibility to cancel.  Hopefully Nevada does have a rescission period for vacation packages or DRI will honor the rescission even if they aren't required to by Nevada state law.


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## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> I thought I was screwed as the contract said there was no right of rescission. Truly glad I found this site or *my holiday would have been totally ruined with worrying. I usually research before I commit to things. Serious lapse in judgement on my part! *Will keep you all posted. Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a great holiday season!



I know what you mean.  When it hits you what you've done.....

This link gives the timeframes for the various states: https://rcivip.com/timeshare-rescission-period-in-us/

Note that there is a distinction made between business days and calendar days.

What I learned when I was trying to get the rescission was to just keep trying. The Sampler is a very difficult one since it is not covered by the timeshare laws governing purchase. Still, most places have buyer's remorse laws and as TUGBrian states you cannot sign away your legal rights.

Don't know your full story but consider a BBB complaint, especially if you're within the 5-day 'cooling off' period. This thread - but particularly several others to do with rescission - have great resources. Hang in there!


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## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> *I thought I was screwed as the contract said there was no right of rescission.* Truly glad I found this site or my holiday would have been totally ruined with worrying. I usually research before I commit to things. Serious lapse in judgement on my part! Will keep you all posted. Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a great holiday season!



Same thing happened with me, however, I did get a rescission and full refund of my Sampler purchase. (FYI: Story sequence is within this thread). Two key elements seem to be operating -

Besides sending in one's intent to rescind within the allotted 'cooling off' period, what seems to be key is - if one paid by credit card, to initiate a dispute. If DRI does not respond to the cc dispute, you win the dispute by default.

Plus, a Better Business Bureau complaint (can be done on-line) was amazingly effective (in my case).


----------



## mrswolfe

tschwa2 said:


> Just as a warning while all states mandate a rescission period for timeshares not all states have such a law regarding vacation sampler/discovery packages.  Just because someone could rescind in Arizona doesn't mean that you can when purchased in Nevada.  I am pretty sure that DRI does not honor rescission of sampler packages if you purchased in a state without a mandated rescission period.  The fact that your contract states no rescission is a bad sign as I don't think DRI would be so brazen as to put something like that in writing as a part of a legal contract if it violated state law.  I think you might as well try because if you didn't send in the rescission request you would have no possibility to cancel.  Hopefully Nevada does have a rescission period for vacation packages or DRI will honor the rescission even if they aren't required to by Nevada state law.



I have read that the Sampler packages are a bit different and have my fingers crossed. But I better try than not do anything, right? Nevada has 5 days to rescind a timeshare purchase.


----------



## mrswolfe

Talya said:


> Same thing happened with me, however, I did get a rescission and full refund of my Sampler purchase. (FYI: Story sequence is within this thread). Two key elements seem to be operating -
> 
> Besides sending in one's intent to rescind within the allotted 'cooling off' period, what seems to be key is - if one paid by credit card, to initiate a dispute. If DRI does not respond to the cc dispute, you win the dispute by default.
> 
> Plus, a Better Business Bureau complaint (can be done on-line) was amazingly effective (in my case).


Talya, your story inspired me and I’m hoping it turns out well for me too! Already filed a complaint with BBB. Called my credit card company to also dispute the deposit charge. They have asked that I wait till my account is debited for the amount then I can dispute.
So, I think I’ve done all I need to do, now to sit and wait. Perhaps i’ll start getting calls by tomorrow.
I should write “I will never sign a contract without first taking the document home to do research “ 1000 lines just to be sure I’ve learned my lesson


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## Egret1986

mrswolfe said:


> Talya, your story inspired me and I’m hoping it turns out well for me too! Already files a complaint with BBB. Called my credit card company to also Dispute the deposit charge. They have asked that I wait till my account is debuted for the amount then I can Dispute.
> So, I think I’ve done all I need to do, now to sit and wait. Perhaps i’ll start getting calls by tomorrow.
> I should write “I will never sign a contract without first taking the document home to do research “ 1000 lines just to be sure I’ve learned my lesson



Great that you found TUG and this thread!

May your efforts be fruitful.


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## Passepartout

mrswolfe said:


> I have read that the Sampler packages are a bit different and have my fingers crossed. But I better try than not do anything, right? Nevada has 5 days to rescind a timeshare purchase.


You have that right about trying. Nevada law makers are in bed with the Real Estate industry, and have the most consumer UNfriendly rescission laws I know of. Including no rescission on resales. We join you in hoping they don't hold you to this purchase. Fingers crossed. 

Jim


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## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> Talya, your story inspired me and I’m hoping it turns out well for me too! Already filed a complaint with BBB. Called my credit card company to also dispute the deposit charge. They have asked that I wait till my account is debited for the amount then I can dispute.


That is heartening. Thank you. Least one can be is a cautionary tale.  

But I know that awful feeling while one waits. I saw izzy get her rescission and could just sit tight and hope. I was bracing myself for Sampler vacations, whatever they might turn out to be, and that wouldn't have been totally a waste, except that in my case the lost funds was a significant loss. Especially given that I lost a long-prepared-for vacation as a consequence. 


mrswolfe said:


> So, I think I’ve done all I need to do, now to sit and wait. Perhaps i’ll start getting calls by tomorrow.


Be sure to let us know what happens for you.


mrswolfe said:


> I should write “I will never sign a contract without first taking the document home to do research “ 1000 lines just to be sure I’ve learned my lesson


Tell me about it!  I already had that as one of my iron clad rules to live by and even so I somehow managed to breach all my safeguards. It's a puzzle to me.

Recently I've been watching Youtube videos regarding the Bernie Madoff scandal, that showed exactly how he managed to pull it off across decades, how he managed to snooker so many 'great and powerful', and one significant factor was the 'exclusive' aspect he managed to convey, that it was a 'special club' of only 'the best' that he was allowing into the special deal. Ask questions and Madoff would dismiss you without nary a backward glance, you were out the door on your bum. And it struck me that that was an element to the timeshare scam - after all, my credit had to be checked, I had to undergo a 'filter' to make sure I was one of a 'special group', the 'elect'. Is that what seduced me? 

Then there was the castles-in-the-air picture of time sharing presented by the first sales rep, and now I realize that the guy was the 'set-up'. He pulled out albums of - personal, what he claimed were personal - pictures showing me rooms he and his wife had stayed at in the Middle East, in South Africa. (Tell-tale: no wife in pictures, all staged, probably stock photos). Really grand stuff, with endless stories about how he was able to put up his entire extended family at suites of rooms in various grand places. All that is stuffed into one's head - the money outlay is ridiculous so one easily says no (in my case, because I didn't have that kind of money though if one looked at my bank accounts one would have seen some interesting money amounts - and they seemed to make all their initial offerings in the vicinity of those bank account amounts - that is interesting: when they check one's credit do they get access to bank account balances?)

So after all that, here comes the Sampler guy, and it all looks so reasonable, like a sampler of chocolates. And so cheap!


----------



## mrswolfe

@Talya Exactly the same set up. I was even giving the first sales guy tips on what to buy for his wife’s upcoming birthday! I’m sure it was probably all part of the pitch! 
I didn’t agree to give them my social security (cos I knew I wasn’t buying anyways), after many minutes of yes/no to providing the number, they took our word for it that we had good credit! Smh 
Imagine that!
So fingers crossed and waiting for the calls. Hopefully I can put this behind me real soon!


----------



## mrswolfe

UPDATE: So I got a call from someone at DRI. Basically telling me that I had signed and that was it. She was quite rude and hung up without completing the conversation.
I called back trying to speak with her, because she didn’t leave a name I couldn’t ask for her directly. I spoke to someone who said my complaint had also been forwarded to the Investigation Dept and I should wait 3-5 days to hear from them.

I am so stressed  and all I wanted was a stress free vacation


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> UPDATE: So I got a call from someone at DRI. Basically telling me that I had signed and that was it. She was quite rude and hung up without completing the conversation.
> 
> *I called back trying to speak with her, because she didn’t leave a name I couldn’t ask for her directly. I spoke to someone who said my complaint had also been forwarded to the Investigation Dept and I should wait 3-5 days to hear from them.*
> 
> I am so stressed  and all I wanted was a stress free vacation


Do you mean your BBB complaint? Or your complaint to them about the rude sales rep?

That's what I experienced with the initial call I received after DRI received my rescission request. No budging (for the same reason given to you) and that was followed by a letter stating the same pov. Dead stop. 

It was the BBB compliant that got the wheels moving to my advantage.

BTW I am puzzled by your credit card - is it Amex?


----------



## mrswolfe

I think it’s the BBB complaint that is with their Investigations dept. I don’t think they care much about the rudeness of their reps. So much fretting  and hand wringing until I hear from them again!
My credit card is with Scotiabank, I don’t know what their process is. I will wait till the end of the week to contact them again.


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> My credit card is with Scotiabank, I don’t know what their process is. I will wait till the end of the week to contact them again.


I meant was your credit card with Amex or Visa or MasterCard or Dicscover, etc. It's not the bank but the credit card company. Did you call the credit card company?


----------



## mrswolfe

Credit card is with Visa. I called the bank and that’s the information they gave me. So should I call Visa instead?


----------



## Passepartout

mrswolfe said:


> Credit card is with Visa. I called the bank and that’s the information they gave me. So should I call Visa instead?


It's the number on the back of the card.  Just out of morbid curiosity, what it the total price of this Sampler package? And how much did you give them upfront? I guess where I'm headed is some idea of it this was a life changing mistake. A poll was taken here on TUG, asking where WE had bought our first timeshare. And it seems that just about exactly half of us bought them from the developer. And while there was some buyer's remorse, most of us went ahead, paid them off, and even bought more (mostly resale).  

I know that the Sampler is a smaller deal, a stay or two as a resort, another chance for another sales team to get a crack at you, then you're done. So worst case, you and the family get another vacation, some memories, and after we arm you with ways to tell the next salesweasels NO! Even if state law doesn't allow you to rescind this, the reasons you signed up, even if they lied and exaggerated, are still valid.

Know that we still hope for a rescission for you, but that the majority of us have walked in your shoes, and lived to tell the tale.

Jim


----------



## mrswolfe

I’ve called my Bank, and they seem to be giving me the runaround. They have asked me to wait for a response from DRI or 15 days from cancellation before they can raise a dispute. The lady I spoke to said I had to get a refund code from DRI first (I’m like heck yeah, they’ll give me a refund code just like that!)
Next call to Visa, they say talk to your bank’s dispute resolution Team.

So sad! Appears the only thing I have going for me now is the BBB complaint.


----------



## mrswolfe

Passepartout said:


> It's the number on the back of the card.  Just out of morbid curiosity, what it the total price of this Sampler package? And how much did you give them upfront? I guess where I'm headed is some idea of it this was a life changing mistake. A poll was taken here on TUG, asking where WE had bought our first timeshare. And it seems that just about exactly half of us bought them from the developer. And while there was some buyer's remorse, most of us went ahead, paid them off, and even bought more (mostly resale).
> 
> I know that the Sampler is a smaller deal, a stay or two as a resort, another chance for another sales team to get a crack at you, then you're done. So worst case, you and the family get another vacation, some memories, and after we arm you with ways to tell the next salesweasels NO! Even if state law doesn't allow you to rescind this, the reasons you signed up, even if they lied and exaggerated, are still valid.
> 
> Know that we still hope for a rescission for you, but that the majority of us have walked in your shoes, and lived to tell the tale.
> 
> Jim


Not so much that I can’t live without and if I can’t cancel, will use it anyways.
I think it’s more of the concept of being “had” that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
My anger is more at myself not them. Asides from the shady tactics, I did sign the purchase and nobody held a gun to my head.
So if push comes to shove, I welcome their sales team to take another crack at me. I will be returning to Vegas and will be requesting the same team that sold me the Sampler


----------



## Passepartout

Can we interest you in the 'official' TUG, "I paid more for this T-shirt than for my timeshare" t-shirt? They work great in salesrooms- youre thrown out instantly.


----------



## mrswolfe

Passepartout said:


> Can we interest you in the 'official' TUG, "I paid more for this T-shirt than for my timeshare" t-shirt? They work great in salesrooms- youre thrown out instantly.


Does it come with a hat as well? I would gladly purchase a full outfit when I’m ready to “go and stay vacationed”


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> I’ve called my Bank, and they seem to be giving me the runaround. *They have asked me to wait for a response from DRI or 15 days from cancellation before they can raise a dispute.* The lady I spoke to *said I had to get a refund code from DRI first* (I’m like heck yeah, they’ll give me a refund code just like that!) Next *call to Visa, they say talk to your bank’s dispute resolution Team*.


I am finding this odd. I have cancelled payments with PayPal (for example) and there is never a question - they just do it, no codes. It's between me and the vendor, not the go-between (imo). 

I was very pleased with Amex - the way they handled it was immediate, no code (but my Amex was issued through my bank - Wells Fargo - so maybe I was actually speaking to my bank? I was pretty sure I was talking to Amex, though because it was a bank issued card perhaps the two roles are conflated). However, they did ask me to send all the documentation: copy of the document I signed. (I had not yet done the BBB complaint at that point). The Amex rep was completely neutral, promised nothing, said it could go either way, seemed very familiar with Sampler/DRI purchases, in fact. He was the one who (without my asking) removed the charge from my account. Not sure what that meant: was the money in a sort of limbo? or had DRI already gotten the money? I don't know. DRI did dump the money back into my account when they did the refund so that makes me think they got the money - but I actually don't know what money went where if at all. Was what the Amex rep did merely an accounting notation? Don't know. In the end, when the refund finally came in (happy day!) my Amex account showed a negative so that Amex had to re-instate the charge, so all was copacetic. 

At the moment of purchase I made the deliberate decision to use my Amex because I view them as business customer friendly with more protections at point-of-sale. I may be wrong but that's my impression. Seems to be born out with with your experience - however......


mrswolfe said:


> So sad! *Appears the only thing I have going for me now is the BBB complaint.*


Seems so and that strikes me as so strange. Why could Amex initiate a dispute without codes? And not your Visa? Thing is, if DRI does not respond to a credit card dispute then the customer wins by default. It's like your Visa card is circumventing this little loophole. Why? The only thing that comes to mind is the window for cancellation - I did my Amex cancellation within 7 days of the purchase - might have been at 4 days out - and I actually don't know the cancellation window with Amex but I know I was within it because the Amex rep make mention that I was within the window for cancellation. Had I not been, it would have been a different story. He explained that it was a more complicated process and if I'm not mistaken it throws the advantage to the vendor. This may be what has happened to you. Did you cancel outside of your credit card's cancellation window?

So the question: did you initiate the cancellation within the cancellation window? If you were outside your window for cancellation maybe that explains the codes and all that.


----------



## Talya

Passepartout said:


> *Can we interest you in the 'official' TUG, "I paid more for this T-shirt than for my timeshare" t-shirt? They work great in salesrooms- youre thrown out instantly.*


Really? I'd like to be there to see that.  Have you had it happen to you? Tell!


mrswolfe said:


> *Does it come with a hat as well? I would gladly purchase a full outfit when I’m ready to “go and stay vacationed”*





mrswolfe said:


> So if push comes to shove, I welcome their sales team to take another crack at me. *I will be returning to Vegas and will be requesting the same team that sold me the Sampler *


Oh please let me come and watch!  I'll pay for a round of drinks afterwards. 


mrswolfe said:


> Not so much that I can’t live without and if I can’t cancel, will use it anyways.* I think it’s more of the concept of being “had” that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. My anger is more at myself not them.* Asides from the shady tactics, I did sign the purchase and nobody held a gun to my head.


Exactly so! (Though there is a fair amount of upset with the sales people because every step of the way it had to have been so clear that I was looking at the Sampler skewed to it's real use - and not once did they correct my impressions).


----------



## mrswolfe

Talya said:


> I am finding this odd. I have cancelled payments with PayPal (for example) and there is never a question - they just do it, no codes. It's between me and the vendor, not the go-between (imo).
> 
> I was very pleased with Amex - the way they handled it was immediate, no code (but my Amex was issued through my bank - Wells Fargo - so maybe I was actually speaking to my bank? I was pretty sure I was talking to Amex, though because it was a bank issued card perhaps the two roles are conflated). However, they did ask me to send all the documentation: copy of the document I signed. (I had not yet done the BBB complaint at that point). The Amex rep was completely neutral, promised nothing, said it could go either way, seemed very familiar with Sampler/DRI purchases, in fact. He was the one who (without my asking) removed the charge from my account. Not sure what that meant: was the money in a sort of limbo? or had DRI already gotten the money? I don't know. DRI did dump the money back into my account when they did the refund so that makes me think they got the money - but I actually don't know what money went where if at all. Was what the Amex rep did merely an accounting notation? Don't know. In the end, when the refund finally came in (happy day!) my Amex account showed a negative so that Amex had to re-instate the charge, so all was copacetic.
> 
> At the moment of purchase I made the deliberate decision to use my Amex because I view them as business customer friendly with more protections at point-of-sale. I may be wrong but that's my impression. Seems to be born out with with your experience - however......
> 
> Seems so and that strikes me as so strange. Why could Amex initiate a dispute without codes? And not your Visa? Thing is, if DRI does not respond to a credit card dispute then the customer wins by default. It's like your Visa card is circumventing this little loophole. Why? The only thing that comes to mind is the window for cancellation - I did my Amex cancellation within 7 days of the purchase - might have been at 4 days out - and I actually don't know the cancellation window with Amex but I know I was within it because the Amex rep make mention that I was within the window for cancellation. Had I not been, it would have been a different story. He explained that it was a more complicated process and if I'm not mistaken it throws the advantage to the vendor. This may be what has happened to you. Did you cancel outside of your credit card's cancellation window?
> 
> So the question: did you initiate the cancellation within the cancellation window? If you were outside your window for cancellation maybe that explains the codes and all that.


I am disputing within the official window. Everything’s been less than a week so I’m not quite sure what they want me to do at this time. I still intent to call back and maybe speak to a supervisor and maybe fax off the dispute documents anyways whether they ask me to or not!
Hooray for Amex. Not sure what’s happening here in Canada...


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> *I am disputing within the official window. Everything’s been less than a week *so I’m not quite sure what they want me to do at this time. I still intent to call back and maybe speak to a supervisor and maybe fax off the dispute documents anyways whether they ask me to or not! Hooray for Amex. *Not sure what’s happening here in Canada...*


Ah, this may be the nub of it: different country, different banking rules? Maybe.


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> I am disputing within the official window. Everything’s been less than a week so I’m not quite sure what they want me to do at this time. *I still intent to call back and maybe speak to a supervisor and maybe fax off the dispute documents anyways whether they ask me to or not! *Hooray for Amex. Not sure what’s happening here in Canada...


No news is NOT good news in this case I am thinking.  How's it gone, @mrswolfe ?


----------



## mrswolfe

No news sadly 
I did get the letter from DRI saying I couldn’t cancel and Visa says I cannot dispute the charge until DRI agrees to a refund and sends me a refund voucher (like that’s gonna happen)
So it seems like there’s nothing more to be done. No word from BBB either..
Sigh


----------



## Passepartout

mrswolfe said:


> No news sadly
> I did get the letter from *DRI saying I couldn’t cancel* and Visa says I cannot dispute the charge until DRI agrees to a refund and sends me a refund voucher (like that’s gonna happen)


Well, this is probably why they located this sale in Realtor friendly (anti consumer) Nevada. You may as well start planning that next vacation. If they won't let you cancel, you might as well use it. We know you will NOT be buying what they want to sell you, and will probably make sure that the other 'marks' in  the sales room will know how you feel. On the good side, their resorts are very nice if you can get over the feeling that you were taken advantage of.

Jim


----------



## mrswolfe

Passepartout said:


> Well, this is probably why they located this sale in Realtor friendly (anti consumer) Nevada. You may as well start planning that next vacation. If they won't let you cancel, you might as well use it. We know you will NOT be buying what they want to sell you, and will probably make sure that the other 'marks' in  the sales room will know how you feel. On the good side, their resorts are very nice if you can get over the feeling that you were taken advantage of.
> 
> Jim


I guess I should plan a holiday.. Sigh.. I don’t think i’ll Ever shake off the feeling of being had but for sure i’ll enjoy my holiday. Perhaps you could point me to good locations?


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> No news sadly  *I did get the letter from DRI saying I couldn’t cancel*


Yes, they will default to that. A given.  There is no real conversation with them up front.


mrswolfe said:


> and *Visa says I cannot dispute the charge until DRI agrees to a refund *and sends me a refund voucher (like that’s gonna happen)


This makes no sense. It's not a disputed charge if DRI agrees to a refund. 

You are instructing Visa to cancel the charge. You have that right, correct? Press this with your Visa people. You made a purchase, you have not used the 'item', you want the charge reversed. Ask them why they are not abiding by your wishes and protecting you as the buyer using their card? I'd really push with the Visa people. It makes utterly no sense to _dispute_ a charge when the vendor has _agreed_ to a refund - what is there to 'dispute' in that scenario? Everyone is in accord - there is no dispute.


mrswolfe said:


> So it seems like there’s nothing more to be done. *No word from BBB either..*Sigh


Call BBB.

Again, maybe some of this, like the Visa banking business, has something to do with Canadian law, or with Visa itself.

Sorry about this, mrswolfe, I was really hoping. Do like Passepartout recommends: make the sales people's job an uphill climb whenever you are around.  But I, too, as the time wore on (though it all took place within a month - pretty fast) was reconciling myself to having vacations in spots I never would have gone, on timelines so far out that I might have forgotten the dates.


----------



## Passepartout

mrswolfe said:


> I guess I should plan a holiday.. Sigh.. I don’t think i’ll Ever shake off the feeling of being had but for sure i’ll enjoy my holiday. Perhaps you could point me to good locations?


I'm not a DRI owner, so not familiar with their locations. Did they give you a catalog of resort locations? Any of them look like someplace you wouldn't visit even if it wasn't pre-paid?


----------



## mrswolfe

Talya said:


> Yes, they will default to that. A given.  There is no real conversation with them up front.
> 
> This makes no sense. It's not a disputed charge if DRI agrees to a refund.
> 
> You are instructing Visa to cancel the charge. You have that right, correct? Press this with your Visa people. You made a purchase, you have not used the 'item', you want the charge reversed. Ask them why they are not abiding by your wishes and protecting you as the buyer using their card? I'd really push with the Visa people. It makes utterly no sense to _dispute_ a charge when the vendor has _agreed_ to a refund - what is there to 'dispute' in that scenario? Everyone is in accord - there is no dispute.
> 
> Call BBB.
> 
> Again, maybe some of this, like the Visa banking business, has something to do with Canadian law, or with Visa itself.
> 
> Sorry about this, mrswolfe, I was really hoping. Do like Passepartout recommends: make the sales people's job an uphill climb whenever you are around.  But I, too, as the time wore on (though it all took place within a month - pretty fast) was reconciling myself to having vacations in spots I never would have gone, on timelines so far out that I might have forgotten the dates.



I must have spoken to my bank and Visa card representatives a million times. It makes no sense to dispute if they are providing a refund code. They only said sorry, they are familiar with the company and sorry I fell for whatever scam they were selling (their exact words). It doesn’t seem like there’s going to be any help from their end.
I have tried to call BBB but I haven’t been able to get through to the number I found online. Will keep trying.
Tbh I have sort of given up. Guess you guys were the lucky ones


----------



## mrswolfe

Passepartout said:


> I'm not a DRI owner, so not familiar with their locations. Did they give you a catalog of resort locations? Any of them look like someplace you wouldn't visit even if it wasn't pre-paid?


Yes they did but I’d rather not look at it yet...


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> I must have spoken to my bank and Visa card representatives a million times. *It makes no sense to dispute if they are providing a refund code.*


Exactly! 


mrswolfe said:


> They only said sorry, they are familiar with the company and sorry I fell for whatever scam they were selling (their exact words). It doesn’t seem like there’s going to be any help from their end.


I'd ask them to spell out exactly what protections they offer the purchaser, then. Why should you use their Visa card if you have no reasonable dispute option? I know one needs to have a Visa (or MasterCard) because some places will not take Amex, but it seems clear to me that Amex is the card that offers purchaser protections.

In fact, your experience has prompted me to check out what purchase protections I have with my Visa card. Thank you. 


mrswolfe said:


> I have tried to call BBB but I haven’t been able to get through to the number I found online. Will keep trying.


Didn't they call you to begin with? I got the first call, and then as the BBB deadline approached I got another call asking for an update. Again, might this have something to do with the fact that you are from another country? Wondering.....


mrswolfe said:


> Tbh I have sort of given up. Guess you guys were the lucky ones


How long has it been? Under a month?


----------



## Talya

@mrswolfe Just a point - If I recall the BBB timeline is two months. If you access the Sampler before you are absolutely sure all options are exhausted you may inadvertently initiate a de-facto 'acceptance'. Make sure the BBB complaint has run it's course, I'd say.


----------



## mrswolfe

Talya said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I'd ask them to spell out exactly what protections they offer the purchaser, then. Why should you use their Visa card if you have no reasonable dispute option? I know one needs to have a Visa (or MasterCard) because some places will not take Amex, but it seems clear to me that Amex is the card that offers purchaser protections.
> 
> In fact, your experience has prompted me to check out what purchase protections I have with my Visa card. Thank you.
> 
> Didn't they call you to begin with? I got the first call, and then as the BBB deadline approached I got another call asking for an update. Again, might this have something to do with the fact that you are from another country? Wondering.....
> 
> How long has it been? Under a month?


It’s still under a month and I just got an email this morning from BBB that my complaint has been forwarded to the business.
As per Visa, I have explained to them that I will be canceling my cards. Apparently my bank also issues Amex so I’ll switch. My next thoughts were to attempt to fax in the dispute documents to my bank anyways and expect an official response from them.

Anyhoo, I’m not holding out much hope. Seems I must holiday in the US when all I wanted was to go to the Carribbean. But I don’t intend to activate their so called package anytime soon. 

Thanks guys for your help. Will post if anything changes


----------



## Talya

mrswolfe said:


> It’s still under a month and I just got *an email this morning from* *BBB that my complaint has been forwarded to the business.*


Let's watch this. We think this is the magic bullet. There may be hope yet.  I think the timeline is 3 weeks with the complaint. 


mrswolfe said:


> As per Visa, I have explained to them that I will be canceling my cards. Apparently my bank also issues Amex so I’ll switch. My next thoughts were to attempt to fax in the dispute documents to my bank anyways and expect an official response from them.


I think sending in the dispute docs to the credit card company is a good idea. Amex requested them from me in my initial call.

Check with Amex to see what their consumer protections are. I am now so curious about this aspect.

But consider carefully totally divesting of Visa/MasterCard because there are places that will not accept Amex. Maybe another bank? (P.S. I pay off all my cards every month - I basically use them like a debit card with more control - and better protections. Using a debit card while traveling is completely unwieldy and an Amex/Visa/MasterCard spread seems necessary to meet all contingencies).


mrswolfe said:


> Anyhoo, I’m not holding out much hope. Seems I must holiday in the US when all I wanted was to go to the Carribbean. But I don’t intend to activate their so called package anytime soon. Thanks guys for your help. Will post if anything changes


Fingers crossed!


----------



## Talya

@Michael23 Please write your communication here rather than via pm. Many thanks. 

However, all the answers to the questions you posed in your pm to me can be sussed out from reading this thread, and actually several threads pertaining to DRI Sampler rescission here on TUB. 

Thank you for understanding.


----------



## Saadfriend

My friend also got taken by the sampler and he seems to have bad luck .  He tried filing bbb complaint and it just says dri has been forwarded request been a week. He is trying to cancel did not pay in full just signed up for monthly plan. How can he dispute it with credit card company . How can he get a refund please advise ?


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> My friend also got taken by the sampler and he seems to have bad luck. *He tried filing bbb complaint and it just says dri has been forwarded request been a week.*



If it's only been a week since the filing *he will have to wait longer, about two months (I think).* *See some of the posts on this thread regarding the time frame of the BBB complaint process*. 



Saadfriend said:


> He is trying to cancel did not pay in full just *signed up for monthly plan. How can he dispute it with credit card company.*



*He needs to talk with his Credit Card company.* There should be a phone number for that. If he wants to cancel the automatic payments he needs to do it sooner rather than later as there seems to be a time frame in which to cancel a credit card purchase. *He must call the credit card company to cancel the automatic payments - and should initiate a grievance against DRI with the credit card company.*



Saadfriend said:


> *How can he get a refund please advise ?*



You're not giving much information but if you read the whole of this thread, plus other threads here on TUGBBS, you will get the information you need, I think. *Good luck! 

What I've learned is the refund process is not a given with DRI. I don't know what the magic sequence of actions are, only what worked for me, and someone else (on this thread). Many more others have not been lucky cancelling their Sampler purchase with DRI sorry to say. *


----------



## Talya

@mrswolfe I am assuming - since you never posted again - that you didn't get the rescission. Is that what happened?


----------



## Saadfriend

Yeah I didn’t give specifics but they have a similar story as the others on this post.  They were some how conned into visiting a Scottsdale resort for a free cruise.  I tried to convinced him on day one to cancel but he seems like he thinks his money is already lost.

Is the sampler that bad if he cannot cancel ? What are the makor limitations is it possible to book Hawaii?

If you dispute with credit card company how do you tell them to stop the payment plus all future payments?  What type of information did you have to provide the credit card company ?  After you filed dispute , how did dri respond did they call to say hey we want our money back or you cannot cancel ?

So the bbb policy takes about two months to respond ? How did you track the progress just view the case complaint?

So best advice here is to just sit tight and wait and not activate any sorts of benefits right ?

My friend gave up hope but honestly 4000$ is so much money. If this was me I would not sleep eat etc until I got all my money back . I do not like being cheated.  Dri is a horrible company I cannot understand how any of what they are doing is legal.  They are in the business of conning people to quickly sign and pay and regret.


----------



## Saadfriend

Also do you need to file the cc dispute and bbb complaint? Do you need to follow both steps to get refund ?


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> Also do you need to file the cc dispute and bbb complaint? Do you need to follow both steps to get refund ?



Please read the responses in this thread. All your questions can be answered if you do that - plus other threads here on TUG BBS.

There is no one answer. It's a process one has to engage. If you read the thread you will see that each person - while similar in broad outline - has a different experience with getting a rescission (or not). Nothing is guaranteed.


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> Yeah I didn’t give specifics but they have a similar story as the others on this post.  They were some how conned into visiting a Scottsdale resort for a free cruise.  I tried to convinced him on day one to cancel but *he seems like he thinks his money is already lost.*



Maybe it is. *How long ago did this purchase take place?*



Saadfriend said:


> Is the sampler that bad if he cannot cancel ? What are the makor limitations is it possible to book Hawaii?



I don't know the answer to either question. 



Saadfriend said:


> If you dispute with credit card company how do you tell them to stop the payment plus all future payments?  What type of information did you have to provide the credit card company ?



He just needs to call his cc company. They will have all those answers. 



Saadfriend said:


> After you filed dispute , how did dri respond did they call to say hey we want our money back or you cannot cancel ?



Please read thread. Answers to your questions are in the thread regarding my -  and other peoples' - experiences.



Saadfriend said:


> So the bbb policy takes about two months to respond ? How did you track the progress just view the case complaint?



You talk to them, they guide you. 



Saadfriend said:


> So best advice here is to just sit tight and wait and not activate any sorts of benefits right ?



Unknown. That has been the supposition. Please read the thread. 



Saadfriend said:


> My friend gave up hope but honestly 4000$ is so much money. If this was me I would not sleep eat etc until I got all my money back . I do not like being cheated.  Dri is a horrible company I cannot understand how any of what they are doing is legal.  They are in the business of conning people to quickly sign and pay and regret.



So it seems.


----------



## Saadfriend

The purchase took place about two to three weeks ago . Does that affect credit dispute ?  So you do not know of the sampler is usable ? What is the worse case they try to go on vacation ?


----------



## Saadfriend

He Afraid to open credit dispute cause it may waste his time . But what else does he have to lose ? I keep trying to tell him it’s easy . But he seems like he is trying to prove that he got conned ? Too afraid to admit he can fight for the money . There is lack of bias for action and no backbone just fear and hesitation .


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> The purchase took place about two to three weeks ago . Does that affect credit dispute ?



Don't know. It might. He needs to call his credit card company to find out.



Saadfriend said:


> So you do not know of the sampler is usable ?



I assume it is useable. Why wouldn't it be? 



Saadfriend said:


> What is the worse case they try to go on vacation ?



Not sure what you are asking.


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> He Afraid to open credit dispute cause it may waste his time .



So he has made his decision. It's his decision to make. I would say let it go. He is the one who has to be on the whole process.



Saadfriend said:


> But what else does he have to lose ?



I'd say let it go. If he doesn't want to move on it that's pretty much a decision.



Saadfriend said:


> I keep trying to tell him it’s easy .



If you've read this thread you must see that it is not easy.  



Saadfriend said:


> But he seems like he is trying to prove that he got conned ? Too afraid to admit he can fight for the money . There is lack of bias for action and no backbone just fear and hesitation .



It's his decision. You can't do it for him. JMO.


----------



## Talya

P.S. I don't think I can help you. The thread speaks for itself. I for sure understand the angst. Been there. So very sorry.


----------



## Saadfriend

Thanks in advance . I will let saad know he is doomed. Always read before you sign nothing in life is free , everything has its price.


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> Thanks in advance. *I will let saad know he is doomed*.



I wouldn't say he is doomed.  If he wants to contest the deal he can contest. Otherwise he has a Sampler and a bunch of vacations he can take. May be not what he bargained for but that's what he's got so he can make the best of it.  That's what I was bracing myself for when I was going through the dispute.



Saadfriend said:


> *Always read before you sign* nothing in life is free , everything has its price.



Too true - and the biggest one: *always take a day and a night (or three) before signing.* If the sales person claims the deal is only good if you sign at once - WALK AWAY and Don't Look Back! Thing is we all know these truisms yet still we get snookered.

P.S. *And never sign anything that says you have no window of cancellation *(which is likely what your friend signed and why he thinks he has no out - he thinks he signed away his right to cancel). I think Arizona has either a 3 day or a 7 day cancellation window so he has passed that window anyway.

Your friend should come on here and talk to other TUG members about how to best use his Sampler. If he's paying monthly not sure when he can access the Sampler. He may have to wait a year or more - that's a guess - unless he put down a sufficiently large down payment. Total guesses on my part. What he will have to be wary about from here on out, though, is the continual sales pitches trying to get him to buy into more. He has to learn to say no and walk away.


----------



## Saadfriend

Saad informed me that he received the cancellation letter and request to send the tablet back.
It took them 2 weeks, but there is happy ending 
Confirms that BBB complaint is the only way to get the refund in a timely manner.


----------



## Talya

Saadfriend said:


> Saad informed me that he received the cancellation letter and request to send the tablet back. *It took them 2 weeks,* but there is happy ending



Wow! Given you said the purchase took place 2-3 weeks ago that was blindingly fast!  I assume then that he submitted the BBB complaint at once, but he didn't initiate a dispute with his credit card company, is that what happened?



Saadfriend said:


> Confirms that BBB complaint is the only way to get the refund in a timely manner.



So he got an refund with only a BBB complaint? Is that correct?


----------



## Saadfriend

No cc dispute was made only the bbb complaint.


----------



## izzymail

Saadfriend said:


> Saad informed me that he received the cancellation letter and request to send the tablet back.
> It took them 2 weeks, but there is happy ending
> Confirms that BBB complaint is the only way to get the refund in a timely manner.


That is great!   Congrats!


----------



## Big h

izzymail said:


> I'm so glad that this worked for you! You may have had to cancel the trip for now, but you have your hard saved money back to plan something new.
> 
> Yes, they do seem to care about their BBB reputation. The BBB is quasi-regulatory in many people's mind (their business model is a whole nother topic) and if DRI didn't care about their rating it would not help a bit because they can't actually enforce any outcome on a company. I'm curious what would have happened to us both if we just rode out the credit card dispute, but I was personally not prepared to take the chance that they fax over a copy of the contract and it would be "game over"...
> 
> Honestly I think all the phone calls (except the last one) could have just been their onboarding process to get you to use the sampler points. They do like the $4k but the real game is to get you back in the sales "ring" to get some serious $$$ from you with ownership. However it could be that they were making a last ditch try to get you to "activate" the points and kill your chances at a cancellation. I'm sure you have figured it out already, but DRI points have negative value and can't even be given away... Yet every single day people are being pressured into purchasing them at retail.
> 
> BTW the tablet is absolute crap... Looks very nice and shiny on the outside, but once you get inside it is Ugly (crashes constantly, slow)... I think  it's the perfect metaphor for DRI!
> 
> I'm grateful for this forum as well... I have learned so much. To answer your question about WorldMark, yes there is a thread under the Wyndham section that explains their unique system really well. There is also a forum at Wmowners.com that is great. While it is not a perfect program (what is?) it seems to me that WorldMark owners are among the happiest around. The program really fits my goals and needs well!
> 
> Congrats again and I'm glad my experience (and prodding at the risk of being annoying) helped!


----------



## Big h

i am starting the process tonight thanks for the advice


----------



## fool me twice

Help!! I need help writing a registered/certified letter to cancel. I fell for the sampler yesterday in Branson, MO. Stayed up all night reading and rereading all these posts, which has given me hope. So while I still have 3 more days of vacation left, I am wasting more time, in addition to the 4hours yesterday to correct this mistake. Please please please help!! I’ve been in contact with my credit card company and bank. Next is cancellation letter and BBB. And of course went back to speak to someone only to be dismissed.


----------



## TUGBrian

no need to overthink it!  be simple/short and to the point!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cancel_timeshare_purchase.html


----------



## Talya

fool me twice said:


> *Help!! I need help writing a registered/certified letter to cancel. I fell for the sampler yesterday in Branson, MO. Stayed up all night *reading and rereading all these posts, which has given me hope. So while I still have 3 more days of vacation left, I am wasting more time, in addition to the 4hours yesterday to correct this mistake. Please please please help!! I’ve been in contact with my credit card company and bank. Next is cancellation letter and BBB. And of course went back to speak to someone only to be dismissed.



Those of us who have been through this can sympathize!  

As I mentioned in my response to your pm - post your story here - it will serve to help others and you will get far more input - like from TUGBrian who has posted a good link to help you with the writing. 

We're rooting for you! Keep us informed as you go through this process.


----------



## fool me twice

TUGBrian said:


> no need to overthink it!  be simple/short and to the point!
> 
> http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cancel_timeshare_purchase.html



Thank you! I appreciate this!! Would you say the same for the review on BBB? I can write a whole novel but I can definitely keep it short and to the point as well. Like I told Tayla in pm, I don’t want to provide too many specific details because my story and family sticks out like a sore thumb.


----------



## TUGBrian

id wait to see what their response is before writing a novel on the BBB report...


----------



## fool me twice

I feel like writing a review was what got the ball rolling for everyone else right away, that’s why I want to write one right away.


----------



## fool me twice

Here was my pm to @Talya and @izzymail. I did edit it and add more details. Thanks to all that can help. And thanks @Talya and @TUGBrian for your responses. I will be writing a BBB review also by tomorrow the latest so your input on that (what was effective for you) would be appreciated. 


I really need both your help with writing a letter to cancel my sampler purchase. My husband and I made the terrible mistake of purchasing it just yesterday while staying in Branson, MO. After having sat through the presentation for 4hrs with our two young children, 1 and 3, we were tired, hungry, restless and drained. This was actually our second time sitting through a tour presentation so when the sampler salesman came my husband basically said yes right away because we honestly enjoy DRI and have never had any problems with them prior to yesterday, and we were just done and wanted to take the kids back to the room to feed them because it was now going on 5pm and the presentation started at 1:15. Anyway. Long story short we initialed and signed without reading. When I got back to the room I finally read the contract and the fine print. And I googled and googled all night. I couldn’t sleep. It was such a terrible feeling. Your post was sooo helpful and hopeful. 
My husband went back this morning. He talked to the same guy that sold us the sampler. No luck. I was trying to do them and my kids a favor. I went back with him and wouldn’t you know it, the sampler seller had left to another city. Convenient how we probably went back only 40minutes after my husband got back. They wanted my email so someone could contact me. I demanded to speak to someone face to face. I waited 7minutes and asked if someone was truly coming out again. Tour desk gal goes and tries again. This time another guy comes out. This is the same guy that greeted us yesterday, all smiles super friendly. The vibe is different today, serious and matter of fact. Our exchange is in the lobby so I’m making EVERYONE at the front desk, the Tour desk and concierge uncomfortable. But I stay polite. And after he threatens to leave if I call him a liar again, I calm down a bit, even though my blood is boiling. He tells me sample seller is busy with someone (I thought he left town??!!) and it goes on and on. I even ask this guy to give the tablet and $100 dining cards to sampler seller, hoping that it would be insurance that he’ll make the time to call me for another meeting but he of course says he can’t take it. I’ve had enough and go back to my room with my family, determined to still make the most of what’s left of my trip. 
So I get a call from sampler seller 10minutes after we get back to the room. Conveniently his manager and the lobby guys manager are both on vacation or gone for the weekend. I talk to him for 15 minutes and decide I’m tired and I thank him. I jus got off the phone with my credit card company and the $349 charge/down payment is on hold pending review. I just got off the phone with my bank after transferring all my money from the account I gave them to another account, hoping to close that account tomorrow. My next step is to write a letter to their office in Las Vegas and then post on the BBB and all the other websites I found last night. I was up until 2am and up again at 8am planning my words I was goin to exchange with them today. I could not sleep thinking about this. Please help me. Your stories were so inspiring and I am so hopeful for the same outcome. Thanks for your time. I can also give you my email if that’s easier.


----------



## fool me twice

Letter is written. On to the review...
Thanks again @TUGBrian for the post. @Talya I actually screen shotted your post from 9/30/17 labeled “Desired Outcome Description” last night but my emotions have just been all over the place so I forgot to look at that first before posting. THANK YOU!!


----------



## bogey21

fool me twice said:


> Help!! I need help writing a registered/certified letter to cancel. I fell for the sampler yesterday in Branson, MO. Stayed up all night reading and rereading all these posts, which has given me hope. So while I still have 3 more days of vacation left, I am wasting more time, in addition to the 4hours yesterday to correct this mistake. Please please please help!! I’ve been in contact with my credit card company and bank. Next is cancellation letter and BBB. And of course went back to speak to someone only to be dismissed.



Really no need to do anything except for the Rescission  letter.  Make sure you follow the instructions in the paperwork you received when you bought to a "T".  If multiple people signed the contract, make sure both sign the Rescission letter. Make sure you send it Certified Mail Return Receipt if the instructions said to send it by US Post Office.  And for heaven's sake make sure you mail it before the Rescission period expires.

George


----------



## fool me twice

This was a sampler and not an actual time share so it says no cancellations. That is why I’m crossing my fingers and following all the steps advised by everyone else in this post, as there are no directions or addresses or anything for where to send anything. This post has been my saving grace. Sending it first thing in the morning.


----------



## izzymail

fool me twice said:


> This was a sampler and not an actual time share so it says no cancellations. That is why I’m crossing my fingers and following all the steps advised by everyone else in this post, as there are no directions or addresses or anything for where to send anything. This post has been my saving grace. Sending it first thing in the morning.


I replied to your PM... Also I will add don't ruin your remaining vacation worrying about this!! There's a decent chance you will get your money back, but nothing you do in the next few days will decide this. It will take some time and effort but you'll be waiting for most of it so no rushing. Enjoy yourself with your family and just work the steps when you get home. I wish I was in Branson today


----------



## Talya

The following is an edited version of my pm response to 'fool me twice'. Seems important - especially my last comments.  



fool me twice said:


> I just got off the phone with my bank after transferring all my money from the account I gave them to another account, hoping to close that account tomorrow.



Sounds good on paper - just *be careful with your credit rating and garnishment*. *You've signed a paper saying you owe - if they don't get their money (if they don't rescind) I am guessing they will go after you* - be prepared for that. I don't know - I'm just speculating. *Anyone else have any ideas on this aspect? *



fool me twice said:


> My next step is to write a letter to their office in Las Vegas and then *post on the BBB *and all the other websites I found last night.



This seems key to it all. They seem to care about their BBB rating. The last fella claims his brother got a rescind with just the BBB complaint, but I wouldn't bet my money on that. 



fool me twice said:


> I was up until 2am and up again at 8am planning my words I was goin to exchange with them today. I could not sleep thinking about this. Please help me. Your stories were so inspiring and I am so hopeful for the same outcome. Thanks for your time.



We know what you are going through.  Please keep us informed. 

I asked 'fool me twice' to post her story on the thread since doing so has two bonus effects: it's helpful for others - plus others would engage in the problem solving, like TUGBrian and others - which you have now done, so all is good. 

Izzymail was enormously generous with me - time and info - but I can't give the same attention because of memory (I just don't recall details - it's always been so with me). The thread pretty much speaks for itself. It would help if anyone who comes across this thread and wants to converse does so on the thread (rather than via pm - at least with me - I speak only for me).  I've had several people send me pm's but it just doesn't work with me. Better for anyone to state their story on the thread and keep us apprised here with their progress and ultimate outcome. Hope folks understand (at least with me - I don't speak for others). 

Thought I'd take this opportunity to say the above. Meanwhile, we are rooting for you 'fool me twice'.


----------



## izzymail

*I have been asked to post the text of my BBB complaint to the board for the benefit of others. Of course, every situation is different, but the actual process through the BBB is very simple. 

My letter to my credit card issuer was even more detailed and included  attachments with details of pending lawsuits, past judgements, and online complaints with stories very similar to mine. Because of the BBB complaint, Diamond did not fight the credit card dispute and let me win by default, so I still wonder what the result would have been had they produced the contract and pushed back. Because of this, I think the BBB complaint was key and will continue to be so long as they decide to defend their rating. I hope this helps!


BBB CASE#: xxxxxxx*
*** This complaint has been closed. If you have more information to provide to BBB regarding this complaint or need to upload a document,please click. ***

Complaint filed by:

**************

Complaint filed against:

Diamond Resorts International

Complaint status:

Inform Business - Case Closed RESOLVED

Case Description:

Misrepresentation and high pressure tactics.
On Wednesday, ******** we attended a sales presentation at the ******** in ********. We were supposed to be there for a 120 minute presentation. We were actually there for over 4 hours. After telling the salesperson NO several times, we were transferred to another salesperson before we could leave. This salesperson offered "THE Sampler" and we accepted, partially to get out of there. It sounded good and he rushed us through documents. As I was trying to read the forms he would interrupt to explain the section and what it means...however the actual fine print says the OPPOSITE of what he said in many places and this distraction prevented me from comprehending what was written. We felt pressured and were not given a chance to read the forms. He told us that we could get a refund until the points were actually used. I questioned this, and he said again, YES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT UP UNTIL THE POINTS ARE USED YOU CAN GET A REFUND.

Now that I have had a chance to fully read the documents, the program is not at all what was sold. He specifically stated that our FIRST trip with the SAMPLER points had to be to one of the SAMPLER destinations, but after that we could use them ANYWHERE in the WORLD (JUST LIKE OWNERSHIP POINTS). This is not true and in fact they can only be used at the specific SAMPLER destinations.

He also said that there would be a sales presentation on ONLY the first trip with SAMPLER points. This is not true...the sales presentation is required on ALL of the trips.

I contacted the company on ***** and requested a refund. I was told that there were no refunds allowed.

Extra Detailed Info

Date of last interaction with business:*******


BBB Designated Category:

Sales Practice Issues

Case opened date:

******

Case closed date:

*********

Desired Resolution:

I want a full refund of the $3,995 that was paid for this package. We have not used and do not plan to use any of the points based on the experience we have had with the truthfulness of the representatives.


----------



## Talya

Many thanks, Izzymail.  There is a common story-line: they get the 'mark' very tired, and then slide in The Sampler.  A lot of smoke-and-mirrors to confuse the 'mark' - making flashy, glib promises that are no where near the reality.

@fool me twice  Make sure to tell us how things go for you.


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

I’m so happy I found this thread, and have been reading this since last night, since I can’t even sleep well since I fell for the sampler, 2 days ago at the cancun resort in Las Vegas NV Now I’m trying to write the letter to cancel, however I can’t figure out on my contract which would be the correct address to mail it... PLEASE! Somebody help me


----------



## Passepartout

BrendaCaudillo said:


> I’m so happy I found this thread, and have been reading this since last night, since I can’t even sleep well since I fell for the sampler, 2 days ago at the cancun resort in Las Vegas NV Now I’m trying to write the letter to cancel, however I can’t figure out on my contract which would be the correct address to mail it... PLEASE! Somebody help me


Nevada has anti-consumer rescission laws, and if it's not technically a developer timeshare contract, it may not be allowed, but it won't hurt to try. How about their corporate address? Found this via google: Diamond Resort Holdings,  10600 W. Charleston Blvd., Las Vegas, NV 89135

Good Luck

Jim


----------



## Talya

We are waiting for @fool me twice to tell us how things turned out. I think she has good news.


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

Passepartout said:


> Nevada has anti-consumer rescission laws, and if it's not technically a developer timeshare contract, it may not be allowed, but it won't hurt to try. How about their corporate address? Found this via google: Diamond Resort Holdings,  10600 W. Charleston Blvd., Las Vegas, NV 89135
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> Jim


Thank you so much!  I know, i feel so stupid for not reading the contract, and it does say that there is no resciccion or cancellations allowed in Nv , however the sales rep totally lied to us in regards of the value of the points, He assure us more than 3 times that those 20,000 will get us up to 12 vacations (3 days) in the 2 yrs trial, all the sale was based on lies. Now we feel lost and stuck with  $173 monthly payments for 2 yrs .


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

Talya said:


> We are waiting for @fool me twice to tell us how things turned out. I think she has good news.


 This gives me some hope!  I’m in California and here I believe we have a 10 day grace period, but We signed the contract in Nevada,  I really hope I can still do something about it, I called Diamond resorts last night and they return the call this morning, saying that there is no cancellation allowed and that somebody else will call me in 3-5 days, and I just sent the certified letter saying I would like to cancel the contract due to all the lies we were told by the sales rep. however  It’s been 2 days since We signed the contract and I don’t know if there is anything else I should do at this point, instead of waiting for a call, i feel nervous as the time passes as I feel my chances of a cancellations decrease


----------



## Passepartout

BrendaCaudillo said:


> Thank you so much!  I know, i feel so stupid for not reading the contract, and it does say that there is no resciccion or cancellations allowed in Nv , however the sales rep totally lied to us in regards of the value of the points, He assure us more than 3 times that those 20,000 will get us up to 12 vacations (3 days) in the 2 yrs trial, all the sale was based on lies. Now we feel lost and stuck with  $173 monthly payments for 2 yrs .


Let's see what happens, but you may have indeed signed up for this 'deal'. To look on the bright side and think you'll get some (I'm not going to say you'll get 12) vacations from this. We hope that the payments don't cause you hardship. Stick around. Study where you can go, and if you do end up with this, for cryin' out loud, stay away from the sales rooms! That's going to be part of the deal- for them to get another crack at you!

Jim


----------



## TUGBrian

nevada law would apply vs california in this situation.


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

TUGBrian said:


> nevada law would apply vs california in this situation.


I know that , however As I was reading this thread, I noticed one person was in the same situation living in Ca and having signed in Nv, try to cancel a few days after and was successful, however She had paid with a Amex CC, Idk if that’s what helped in resolving this matter


----------



## TUGBrian

you should absolutely try to rescind...no question about it.


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

Thanks, I mailed the letter today, and now I’m waiting for a supervisor to call me back in 3-5 days... anybody knows if I should be doing anything else than wait , I just signed that contract 2 days ago, and I would like to do everything in my hands before more time goes by. I appreciate everyone taking their time to answer, your help means a lot, Thank you very much


----------



## Talya

BrendaCaudillo said:


> Thanks, I mailed the letter today, and now I’m waiting for a supervisor to call me back in 3-5 days...* anybody knows if I should be doing anything else than wait , I just signed that contract 2 days ago, and I would like to do everything in my hands before more time goes by. *I appreciate everyone taking their time to answer, your help means a lot, Thank you very much



Read this thread.  A lot about putting in a BBB complaint - an in your case it would be to the Nevada office. Seems to get results.

Talking with your credit card company might help.


----------



## BrendaCaudillo

Talya said:


> Read this thread.  A lot about putting in a BBB complaint - an in your case it would be to the Nevada office. Seems to get results.
> 
> Talking with your credit card company might help.


Thank you!!!  
I will do that today


----------



## fool me twice

@BrendaCaudillo, I hope you wrote the complaint on BBB. I felt like that definitely made a difference. 
I was waiting for everything to go through before I updated because I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t being lied to, again. We were able to get out of the sampler contract. Such a huge sigh of relief!! I pray the same for you Brenda!!!


----------



## Talya

fool me twice said:


> @BrendaCaudillo, I hope you wrote the complaint on BBB. I felt like that definitely made a difference.
> I was waiting for everything to go through before I updated because I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t being lied to, again. *We were able to get out of the sampler contract. Such a huge sigh of relief!! *I pray the same for you Brenda!!!


----------



## Talya

fool me twice said:


> @BrendaCaudillo, I hope you wrote the complaint on BBB. I felt like that definitely made a difference.
> 
> *I was waiting for everything to go through before I updated because I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t being lied to, again. We were able to get out of the sampler contract. Such a huge sigh of relief!! *I pray the same for you Brenda!!!



@fool me twice  If you feel up to it, telling the final sequence of events leading to rescission is always helpful for others to hear.


----------



## Katya_

Hello there!
I’ve read all the comments and Tried to write the complaint on BBB, but I’m not sure how to do it. I know you said it’s easy, but I think I really need help with this. I’m from another country (living in California for a while) and my English is good but I think not enough to understand all this process, so I would be very grateful if someone could guide me.

So, BBB
I guess the option for “Nature of your complaint” is “Business product or service”, Am I right?

After that I find the name of the business (in my case it’s the Vegas/Nevada one)

Then appears what is the complaint about, I’m guessing it’s “Civil rights violations”, isn’t it?

Then I submit this and it gives me a “contact” (phone number, address, website) to proceed. Here is where I don’t know how to continue. I thought all the process would be online, but I don’t see more options there. So my question is, do I have to send a letter to the address that appears as a contact that this provides me?

Thank you!


----------



## Talya

Katya_ said:


> Hello there! I’ve read all the comments and Tried to write the complaint on BBB, but I’m not sure how to do it. I know you said it’s easy, but I think I really need help with this. I’m from another country (living in California for a while) and my English is good but I think not enough to understand all this process, so I would be very grateful if someone could guide me.


This must be hair-raising for you, being a foreigner, working with a second language. So sorry. 

@izzymail You out there? Katya pm'd me and I advised her to post on the thread. Hope you can help! 


Katya_ said:


> Then appears what is the complaint about, I’m guessing it’s “Civil rights violations”, isn’t it?


I don't know. What are the options they offer for clicking? When I was doing my BBB I don't recall clicking on anything that said "Civil Rights Violation". I don't think I would have seen my problem under that heading - more a poor business practice, or something along that line. Misleading sales information - like that.

Please don't feel you have to (I know you are foreign and this must all be doubly daunting because of that) but if you feel comfortable say what happened. Again, only if you're comfortable. The story can always be done via pm with whoever helps you.


Katya_ said:


> Then I submit this and it gives me a “contact” (phone number, address, website) to proceed. Here is where I don’t know how to continue. I thought all the process would be online, but I don’t see more options there. So my question is, do I have to send a letter to the address that appears as a contact that this provides me? Thank you!


At some point you write up what took place. I don't see you indicating that you got that option - unless once you click what the complaint is about the place to type up the incident comes up. (I have forgotten all that was entailed in the BBB process - I am older and the details are fuzzy).

I am hoping @izzymail comes on. She's the one with the steel-trap mind.


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## Katya_

I realized that the 4 options that appear there are the cases that they do not handle with haha that's why they were giving me another contact to proceed with my complaint so I just had to put "no" to all of them and then it sent me to the page where I can type all my story.

I've always been very careful and analytical with these types of situations and I know how to say NO, because you always have to think like "This is too good to be real", there is always something behind it. Sadly you can no trust too much to anybody. I'm still wondering how I could fall into this and it makes me mad and sad at the same time, so I really have to stop thinking about it.

I don't know how you all ended up going to that presentation but in my case I just wanted a ticket for a show in LV, so I found these people at my hotel "selling" the tickets for all the shows and I just wanted to buy 1, the lady I talked to was like "Oh that's great, you're here by yourself so I have a good discount for you, I'll give you 2 tickets for $50 for 2 shows you want. But I also want to give you $25 cash that you can use for food or spa. And I want to give you more, I'll also give you 2 nights-3 days free that you can use in this Hotel or at this other one. All you have to do is go to a tour at "x" hotel, which is new and we want the users to know"... I was like "What? all these things just for $50?... Let's do it"

So it was supposed to be a "tour", I did not even know I was going to a sales presentation until I got to the place and eveything became into a strange environment. And well, the end of my "tour", you already know it. - Foreign, middle 20's and alone. What a shot for them -

Anyway, I wrote and sent my letter yesterday, however it was my 6th day after the purchase [I found this thread too late  ] so I don't think it's gonna change anything. I also wrote my BBB complaint, now I can only wait and see how it goes. If I cant' have my money back, so I'll have a wonderful vacations in these amazing SAMPLER destinations with standard* rooms.


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## Talya

@Katya_  Keep us informed. Let us know what happens. We're rooting for you!


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## izzymail

Katya_ said:


> Hello there!
> I’ve read all the comments and Tried to write the complaint on BBB, but I’m not sure how to do it. I know you said it’s easy, but I think I really need help with this. I’m from another country (living in California for a while) and my English is good but I think not enough to understand all this process, so I would be very grateful if someone could guide me.
> 
> So, BBB
> I guess the option for “Nature of your complaint” is “Business product or service”, Am I right?
> 
> After that I find the name of the business (in my case it’s the Vegas/Nevada one)
> 
> Then appears what is the complaint about, I’m guessing it’s “Civil rights violations”, isn’t it?
> 
> Then I submit this and it gives me a “contact” (phone number, address, website) to proceed. Here is where I don’t know how to continue. I thought all the process would be online, but I don’t see more options there. So my question is, do I have to send a letter to the address that appears as a contact that this provides me?
> 
> Thank you!


Hello, sounds like you have a very similar story to the rest of us... It is amazing that they are able to do this every day and stay in business! It sounds like you are making the right steps and I hope they continue to lead to a good outcome.

The biggest problem with the SAMPLER is that you are required to attend a sales presentation at each and every trip you make with these points... The thought of having to relieve that experience over and over is dreadful...


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## Bayrecca

Hi there, this has been very helpful. 
Question though. I did not purchase the sampler with my own credit card. I opened up a Barclay card with Diamond for as much as I could and financed the rest with Diamond.
This is my second credit card ever (sorry old fashioned). Do I make a dispute with Barclay or just make a BBB complaint. 
My husband and I stupidly did this just yesterday is Sedona, AZ. We are on a read trip and are in CA now. I wondered if we could use our new "Sampler" to find a hotel in CA and found this forum ugh! 
Does anyone know how I do this? Ive never done a credit card dispute. Can I like cancel this right away since I just opened up the card yesterday?


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## izzymail

Bayrecca said:


> Hi there, this has been very helpful.
> Question though. I did not purchase the sampler with my own credit card. I opened up a Barclay card with Diamond for as much as I could and financed the rest with Diamond.
> This is my second credit card ever (sorry old fashioned). Do I make a dispute with Barclay or just make a BBB complaint.
> My husband and I stupidly did this just yesterday is Sedona, AZ. We are on a read trip and are in CA now. I wondered if we could use our new "Sampler" to find a hotel in CA and found this forum ugh!
> Does anyone know how I do this? Ive never done a credit card dispute. Can I like cancel this right away since I just opened up the card yesterday?


Don't feel bad! Many if us have been where you are. Based  on my experience, and others, if the documents do not indicate a recession period, the BBB complaint is most effective.


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## Bayrecca

Thank you, my husband and I immediately over nighted a signed letter of rescission to both the corporate offices in Las Vegas and the sameness letter to the resort in Sedona along with the return of the tablet. 
We then filed a complaint with the BBB. 
Is there anything else we need to do? I didn't even try to call the hotel and get the run around. Should I try and make a complaint with the credit cards they had us sign up for or will it all hopefully get resolved their BBB? 
Thank you everyone, this thread gives me hope!!


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## izzymail

Bayrecca said:


> Thank you, my husband and I immediately over nighted a signed letter of rescission to both the corporate offices in Las Vegas and the sameness letter to the resort in Sedona along with the return of the tablet.
> We then filed a complaint with the BBB.
> Is there anything else we need to do? I didn't even try to call the hotel and get the run around. Should I try and make a complaint with the credit cards they had us sign up for or will it all hopefully get resolved their BBB?
> Thank you everyone, this thread gives me hope!!


You can dispute the credit card, but it might complcate things. I would personally let the BBB complaint run its course since that has been working. If it doesn't, your should have 60 days to dispute with the credit card issuer


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## fool me twice

I think all the steps you took was good enough. I did the same thing you did by financing through them. Hoping and praying it will turn out in your favor.


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## Bayrecca

Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you know I got my full refund last week!
I got a letter from Diamond a few weeks ago saying they would cancel my contract if I sent in and notarized the form they sent me.
I did asap.
BBB was very helpful and kept checking up on me via email to see if I got my refund.
I kept checking in with diamond and the credit card co on the status of my refund and got it last week! I purchased the sampler August 1 and got the refund a week or so ago so the whole fiasco was resolved in just over a month! Woohoo!
I then immediately cancelled the credit card and cut it up lol!
Thank you to everyone on this forum for helping me! I would have been sunk with out you!
Please read theu this forum if you have the same issue. It's possible to fix it yayyy!


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## Talya

Bayrecca said:


> Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you know I got my full refund last week!
> I got a letter from Diamond a few weeks ago saying they would cancel my contract if I sent in and notarized the form they sent me.
> I did asap.




Well done! 




Bayrecca said:


> *BBB was very helpful and kept checking up on me via email *to see if I got my refund.


Good to know.


Bayrecca said:


> I kept checking in with diamond and the credit card co on the status of my refund and got it last week! *I purchased the sampler August 1 and got the refund a week or so ago so the whole fiasco was resolved in just over a month! Woohoo!*


It does happen fast when one acts fast.


Bayrecca said:


> I then immediately cancelled the credit card and cut it up lol!


No more temptation!  The relief is amazing, not so? 


Bayrecca said:


> Thank you to everyone on this forum for helping me! I would have been sunk with out you!
> Please read thru this forum if you have the same issue. It's possible to fix it yayyy!


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## izzymail

Bayrecca said:


> Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you know I got my full refund last week!
> I got a letter from Diamond a few weeks ago saying they would cancel my contract if I sent in and notarized the form they sent me.
> I did asap.
> BBB was very helpful and kept checking up on me via email to see if I got my refund.
> I kept checking in with diamond and the credit card co on the status of my refund and got it last week! I purchased the sampler August 1 and got the refund a week or so ago so the whole fiasco was resolved in just over a month! Woohoo!
> I then immediately cancelled the credit card and cut it up lol!
> Thank you to everyone on this forum for helping me! I would have been sunk with out you!
> Please read theu this forum if you have the same issue. It's possible to fix it yayyy!


That's awesome!! Feels like winning the lottery... Well, sort of


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## vegasfool

Hi guys!

My husband and I were recently victimized by this Diamond timeshare thing last January 24 during our vacation in Vegas. Luckily, found this forum the same day we purchased from them. 

So on January 27, we sent a cancellation letter to their Vegas ofc using the template that I got from this forum as well. On January 29, I called my bank for a dispute with the CC. Then yesterday, January 30, we already received an email from DoNotReply@DiamondResorts.com:

*“Dear Member:
We are in receipt of your cancellation request with Diamond Resorts U. S. Collection. Please accept this email as confirmation and assurance our team will be diligently working to review the rescission terms of your vacation ownership purchase (the “Agreement”) to determine contract cancellation details.

During this period, please allow 7-10 business days to complete the cancellation process. To avoid any delays with the cancellation process, we ask for your cooperation to refrain from submitting disputes to your credit card company or bank. If you are entitled to a refund, a credit will be issued back to the credit card previously tendered or a refund check will be issued based on the method of payment.

Once your contract has been officially cancelled, a confirmation cancellation status letter will be mailed to you.

Please feel free to contact our Member Services department at 877.DRI.CLUB (877.374.2582) with any questions.



Sincerely,

Escrow Department
Diamond Resorts Financial Services.

Sales Center*: CAN”



My question is: can I really rely on this and no need to file for a dispute? I am kinda doubtful simply because of their DoNotReply email address lol. They’re too much of a liar I couldn’t even believe a single thing from them anymore, I’ve read tons of frauds and lies from them on the web that’s why… Also, do I still need to file a complaint at BBB? Please enlighten me guys. Still not at peace… Thank you so much in advance!


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## Talya

Well, this is a new wrinkle. I agree, @vegasfool , one is inclined to be wary. It's interesting that they are asking for you to desist on doing the very two things that we have found effects immediate results. The time delay would be what would concern me.

@TUGBrian and @izzymail - what do either of you think about this situation? They are already 1 week out, and waiting 7-10 (maybe more) would start leaving them at 3 weeks to a month.

The BBB complaint I don't think has a time frame - am I right?

What very much _does_ have a time sensitivity is your Credit Card dispute. The sooner the better on that I would say - and I say that based on what my AMEX rep said to me. If I could make it so they don't get the money that's what I'd do. That's what AMEX did for me - the payment was held up during the dispute period which was about a month or two. 

Regarding AMEX, though, someone else on this thread (from Canada) said it wasn't as I experienced it with AMEX with their AMEX issued from a Canadian bank. I don't think we ever figured out why there was a difference between our American Express cards - by default we figured it was because of different banks in different countries.


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## Talya

@vegasfool I'd say call your credit card right away. Find out what the timeframe is with a dispute. My AMEX card's time frame for a dispute was a matter of days, I think - I was just under the wire at about a week, I think.

Of course, if you used their credit, I don't think you'd have an option from that angle.

*CORRECTION:* Just re-read your post - you have called your cc company. (Excellent imo). It looks like Diamond doesn't want you to proceed with the cc dispute - what does your bank say? I'd keep the cc dispute going myself.


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## applepie

I didn't buy a sampler but instead bought 22500 points for 70k.  I did the rescission letter.  They sent me the same email asking me not to dispute with credit card.  I was going to wit till 3 weeks had passed be abuse I have 30 days to dispute.  They credited me back 2.5 weeks later.


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## Bayrecca

Hey there, all I did was file the complaint with BBB. I didn’t bother to dispute the credit card. They did the work for me. But I’m wondering if disputing the card would only help. 
I did not receive an email however, I got a formal letter in the mail that asked me to sign and notarize the form and send it back to cancel. 
Hope you get it resolved! I did.


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## izzymail

Talya said:


> Well, this is a new wrinkle. I agree, @vegasfool , one is inclined to be wary. It's interesting that they are asking for you to desist on doing the very two things that we have found effects immediate results. The time delay would be what would concern me.
> 
> @TUGBrian and @izzymail - what do either of you think about this situation? They are already 1 week out, and waiting 7-10 (maybe more) would start leaving them at 3 weeks to a month.
> 
> The BBB complaint I don't think has a time frame - am I right?
> 
> What very much _does_ have a time sensitivity is your Credit Card dispute. The sooner the better on that I would say - and I say that based on what my AMEX rep said to me. If I could make it so they don't get the money that's what I'd do. That's what AMEX did for me - the payment was held up during the dispute period which was about a month or two.
> 
> Regarding AMEX, though, someone else on this thread (from Canada) said it wasn't as I experienced it with AMEX with their AMEX issued from a Canadian bank. I don't think we ever figured out why there was a difference between our American Express cards - by default we figured it was because of different banks in different countries.


Sorry I'm just seeing this now but I'll give my 2 cents. Credit card disputes hurt the company's relationship with their processor and increase their transaction costs in the future (especially when they lose). My guess is that they are getting smarter and its a legitimate attempt to keep you from disputing while they cancel and refund on their end. Most credit card issuers give you at least until you've recieved your statement to dispute, so there's probably no rush...in fact when you dispute you have to attest that you've tried in good faith to resolve it directly with the merchant. If I were in this situation I'd give them a bit to refund and if they didn't I'd move forward with the BBB and CC dispute.


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## Talya

izzymail said:


> Sorry I'm just seeing this now but I'll give my 2 cents. *Credit card disputes hurt the company's relationship with their processor and increase their transaction costs in the future (especially when they lose). My guess is that they are getting smarter and its a legitimate attempt to keep you from disputing while they cancel and refund on their end.*


As always, Izzymail, your insights are dead-on and invaluable. 


izzymail said:


> *Most credit card issuers give you at least until you've recieved your statement to dispute, so there's probably no rush...*in fact when you dispute you have to attest that you've tried in good faith to resolve it directly with the merchant. If I were in this situation I'd give them a bit to refund and if they didn't I'd move forward with the BBB and CC dispute.


You're probably right, though I do recall that with my AMEX there seemed to be a time issue. Though what my AMEX card did was to actually _block_ the charge - so maybe that was the issue: I called them before the charge even posted and there is a timeline to have that blocked. Okay, that must have been it.


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## jeangao

Hi! I am in the same situation. I was talked into signing the contract at Sedona Summit without knowing the no rescission term in the contract. I have sent a letter of cancellation to Diamond Resort and they have called me to let me know their denial. I also called my credit card company (Chase visa) to file a dispute. After reading this thread,  I want to File a complaint to BBB. I am not sure which state should file in, CA, AZ or NV.  I live in CA. 

Thank you for all the helpful information provided here.


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## moonstone

jeangao said:


> Hi! I am in the same situation. I was talked into signing the contract at Sedona Summit without knowing the no rescission term in the contract. I have sent a letter of cancellation to Diamond Resort and they have called me to let me know their denial. I also called my credit card company (Chase visa) to file a dispute. After reading this thread,  I want to File a complaint to BBB. I am not sure which state should file in, CA, AZ or NV.  I live in CA.
> 
> Thank you for all the helpful information provided here.



If you are on Facebook have a look at the group "Diamond Resorts Owners Advocacy". There is lots of information in the group's files section and Irene Parker has helped many people get refunds and get out of the Sampler Package.
Wishing you luck!

~Diane


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