# Why Free



## Ballen0351 (Feb 11, 2012)

I have a question.  Im an owner already with bluegreen.  Purchased it directly at the resort which I now see was not so smart but you live and learn.  Im not looking to sell it or anyhting I was actually thinking of getting another set of points from another company a little larger then Bluegreen with more choices.  We will keep bluegreen as well my wife and I love going to Charleston SC we go every year so we cant give it up.

My question is why are there so may TS listed for free or like a dollar?  Didnt someone pay for these at the same HIGH rate I did?  So if they are able to only charge a buck they must have paid it off.  I dont understand why people are giving them away.  I guess my concern Ive always been told if it looks to good to be true it might be.  So Im a little worried about grabbing a "Free" or super cheap TS and it being some kind of scam.


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## presley (Feb 11, 2012)

People can't afford to pay the ever rising annual dues.  They get to a point where they just want to get rid of it.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 11, 2012)

Ballen0351 said:


> I have a question.  Im an owner already with bluegreen.  Purchased it directly at the resort which I now see was not so smart but you live and learn.  Im not looking to sell it or anyhting I was actually thinking of getting another set of points from another company a little larger then Bluegreen with more choices.  We will keep bluegreen as well my wife and I love going to Charleston SC we go every year so we cant give it up.
> 
> My question is why are there so may TS listed for free or like a dollar?  Didnt someone pay for these at the same HIGH rate I did?  So if they are able to only charge a buck they must have paid it off.  I dont understand why people are giving them away.  I guess my concern Ive always been told if it looks to good to be true it might be.  So Im a little worried about grabbing a "Free" or super cheap TS and it being some kind of scam.



Resale prices are low for a variety of reasons:

Crashed re sale prices

People cannot afford the maintance fees and need out

People pass on and non of the heirs want the timeshare

Timeshares with title problems

Groups like CJ Timeshares will sell you a 3 Bedroom Unit at a resort where no such criter exists, in other words, what is being sold is not as it is being represented to be.  It has been reported that Sumday Vacations is not necessary as it appears to be.  Both of these groups are E-Bay re sellers.


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## LannyPC (Feb 11, 2012)

Ballen0351 said:


> My question is why are there so may TS listed for free or like a dollar?  Didnt someone pay for these at the same HIGH rate I did?  So if they are able to only charge a buck they must have paid it off.  I dont understand why people are giving them away.  I guess my concern Ive always been told if it looks to good to be true it might be.  So Im a little worried about grabbing a "Free" or super cheap TS and it being some kind of scam.



The reason why so many are giving them away free is because they desperately want to get out from under the maintenance fees.

Also, the law of supply and demand dictates selling prices.  Since there are way more sellers than buyers of timeshares right now, the prices are going to plummet.

If you're "a little worried about grabbing a 'Free' or super cheap TS and it being some kind of scam", that likely is not the case.  What you should be worried about is whether the contract to pay ever-increasing maintenance fees each year with possible special assessments is worth it.  Also keep in mind that, if you do pick up a timeshare (even a free one), that it will be very difficult to unload down the road should you feel that you no longer need it or can't afford the ever-increasing MFs.

Keep in mind too that many decent timeshares out there can be rented for cheaper than the MFs.


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## Ballen0351 (Feb 11, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Resale prices are low for a variety of reasons:
> 
> Crashed re sale prices
> 
> ...



Yeah I started reading some of the horror stories.  Thats my fear to buy something or get something "free" thats not so free.


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## Ballen0351 (Feb 11, 2012)

LannyPC said:


> Keep in mind too that many decent timeshares out there can be rented for cheaper than the MFs.



Yeah I dont mind the MFs.  We usually rent one of our bluegreen weeks out to pay for them.
I like just looking thru a book saying that looks like a nice place and calling the 800 number and saying give me that place at this time.  Less hassle for me.


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## ronparise (Feb 11, 2012)

Things are even worse than you think

Consider that many of the timeshares that are offered on ebay at such low prices were "sold" to the ebay seller for less than zero   ie the original owner paid the ebay seller several thousands of dollars to get rid of it

Wwhy is this happening?  My answer goes to the price to rent a comparable place. 

If I can rent a condo in a resort location for, lets say $1200 a week and the maintenance fee for a comparable timeshare is  $1300. The resale value of that timeshare is less than zero Unfortunately thats the case for far too many timeshares


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## Ballen0351 (Feb 11, 2012)

So I guess I try and avoid Ebay and look for a person thats looking to get out.


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## DeniseM (Feb 11, 2012)

Ballen0351 said:


> So I guess I try and avoid Ebay and look for a person thats looking to get out.



Have you seen the Bargain Deals forum on TUG?  And also the TUG Marketplace?


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## Passepartout (Feb 11, 2012)

Ballen0351 said:


> So I guess I try and avoid Ebay and look for a person thats looking to get out.



By and large, there's nothing wrong with buying from most eBay sellers. You just have to do your due diligence and make sure there are no questions to be answered before you bid. Many- if not most- of us have bought TSs from eBay with good results.

I paid the princely sum of $1.25 for one that has taken me to Mexico, Hawaii and many nice US resort locations. This was before most were a buck and I had to outbid someone for it.

Jim


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## Ballen0351 (Feb 11, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Have you seen the Bargain Deals forum on TUG?  And also the TUG Marketplace?



Searching them now


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## ronparise (Feb 11, 2012)

Ballen0351 said:


> So I guess I try and avoid Ebay and look for a person thats looking to get out.



dont avoid ebay altogether, but i do suggest you only bid on auctions by sellers with lots of positive feedback..and do your homework, know what you are bidding on and get your questions answered before you bid


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## nightnurse613 (Feb 11, 2012)

And I would add that many sellers are not really familiar with what they own. Additionally, have you ever used cut and paste while creating a new document?  Sometimes errors creep in (and it's not intentional). I've seen ads for WorldMark where they suddenly start talking about Wyndham annual points, for example.  That's where due diligence comes in.  What's really sad is when owners pay upfront fees (like a full year's MF - or two!!) and offer the seller a commission and that's why TUG says- NEVER pay an upfront fee!! I remember we sold an RCI points timeshare a few years back. We wound up paying a transfer fee to RCI, the points account fee and a couple of other items. In our case we had decided to go in another direction with our membership and, I think, in the end we had a (very) small net profit - but lost money overall.  Not always the case anymore! We didn't need it and somebody else wanted it and, the price was right for both of us!


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 11, 2012)

SBP fees are high, and they have gone up from $680 a few short years ago to well over $1,100 today.  Cannot remember the exact amount we paid this year.  

I understood the fees were temporarily high, so perhaps the fees will go down, but I somehow cannot see Starwood reducing the fees by much.  

I talked to a guy at Starwood a few days ago, and he mentioned that we own quite a few weeks.  I had to be a bit ornery and tell him I cannot resist the prices on eBay.  $1 + all closing costs paid is what my last few cost me.  He was shocked; he had no idea SBP was selling for $1.  But it's partly Starwood's fault, and it's also partly the fault of a slow economy.  But then I think of those people who paid $3-4K to get rid of the week, and I think it's partly stupidity.  :rofl:


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## e.bram (Feb 11, 2012)

Most of the dollar resales are for off season(non kid vacation)weeks. ie. not summer or break weeks in a seasonal  area.ie. Nobody is giving away an oceanfront(TS and fixed unit) summer week with in driving distance(low transportation costs) from a major metro area, (NYC, Boston LA ),with reasonable MFs


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 11, 2012)

*Open-Market Value Of Most Timeshare Deeds Is Right Close To Zero.  So It Goes.*




Ballen0351 said:


> I dont understand why people are giving them away.


We gave away three _-- 3 --_ timeshares within the past couple of years.

Plus, we deeded another timeshare week back to the resort (with the resort's permission & cooperation). 

We decided we'd rather give'm away for nothing than try to sell'm for next to nothing. 

Value is largely a matter of supply & demand.  Right now, there is virtually no demand for timeshares.  That makes the value of the timeshare deed (regarded as a piece of property) virtually zero. 

Under the best of conditions, there is hardly any natural demand for timeshares.  The only way the timeshare companies can sell'm is via high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo featuring arm-twisting & truth stretching & guilt-tripping & psychological manipulations.  The only way they can get prospective customers to show up is by offering freebies to people willing to be subjected to their sales pitches.  

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## e.bram (Feb 11, 2012)

Most of the dollar resales are for off season(non kid vacation)weeks. ie. not summer or break weeks in a seasonal  area.ie. Nobody is giving away an oceanfront(TS and fixed unit) summer week with in driving distance from a major metro area, (NYC, Boston LA ),with reasonable MFs


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## nygiants11991 (Feb 11, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Have you seen the Bargain Deals forum on TUG?  And also the TUG Marketplace?



I hope no one takes offense to my question because that is not my intention at all.  But how can a person verify if someone selling on the TUG Marketplace is legitimate?


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## rrlongwell (Feb 11, 2012)

nygiants11991 said:


> I hope no one takes offense to my question because that is not my intention at all.  But how can a person verify if someone selling on the TUG Marketplace is legitimate?



You cannot.  However, it is noteworthy that I have not seen any complaints in this forum or other internet sights of problems.  However, numerous other companies and/or sites have been identified as having problems.  Anyone have problems problems dealing with TUGS sellers/reseller or renters?


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## persia (Feb 11, 2012)

A quick example.  Say I own at Glacier Canyon, maintenance fees are around $6.66 a thousand.  If I want to stay in the summer I have to book before Christmas.  If I don't go for a week I have to rent out my points as a reservation to someone else or lose my money.

Now if I shop around on Ebay I can get a stay at Glacier Canyon for the equivalent of $5 to $5.5 in the summer and I can rent it a few weeks before travel.  If I don't go, well I don't go....


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 11, 2012)

I gave away two last year . . . 

Wyndham Flagstaff 2BR fixed week #12 - deeded back to the POA/HOA
Wyndham Kingsgate 3BR L/O fixed week #18 - gave away for free to someone through TUG.

I had acquired the Flagstaff for the price of that year's MF (around $425) . . . and the Kingsgate through a resale company in Williamsburg in 2001 for $5,000.

We had a lot of great use out of both, staying at the resorts as well as getting some wonderful trades . . . especially with the Kingsgate as we always got 2:1 vacation weeks, often scoring Hawaii 2BR's with the 1BR side.

Our vacation needs have been evolving, and with MF's escalating, the timing seemed right to jump ship on these two.  We still have two other TS's which will suffice for us into the future.


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## JeffBrown (Feb 12, 2012)

*RRLONGWELL's BEHAVIOR IN the BBS*



rrlongwell said:


> Groups like CJ Timeshares will sell you a 3 Bedroom Unit at a resort where no such criter exists, in other words, what is being sold is not as it is being represented to be.  It has been reported that Sumday Vacations is not necessary as it appears to be.  Both of these groups are E-Bay re sellers.



Mr. Longwell,
What is your deal?  Why do you continually bash my company when you've never done business with us?  Are you being paid to trash it?  I've encountered many people like you in my life but never one that was so brash about thrashing another person/company.

I think you should explain your contempt for Sumday Vacations or you should stop posting about us in a negative manner until you have a reason to do so.  I think this kind of negative statements definately violate the BBS rules you agreed to use.  Specifically this portion:

Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs.

In over 30 posts you have attacked my company without provocation, without any knowledge of my company and/or any experience with my company, save one complaint about an advertising error that we openly admitted to you after you pointed it out to us. You even go around posting on threads with a link to the threads your bashing me in.  This behavior shows a clear pattern of continued personal attacks and if you do not refrain from that behavior I will pursue it further.

Good Day
Jeff Brown
Sumday Vacations


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 12, 2012)

JeffBrown said:


> Mr. Longwell,
> What is your deal?  Why do you continually bash my company when you've never done business with us?  Are you being paid to trash it?  I've encountered many people like you in my life but never one that was so brash about thrashing another person/company.
> 
> I think you should explain your contempt for Sumday Vacations or you should stop posting about us in a negative manner until you have a reason to do so.  I think this kind of negative statements definately violate the BBS rules you agreed to use.  Specifically this portion:
> ...



Jeff with all due respect (and I don't know Longwell from beans) . . . he has merely made a comment of opinion which based on the many comments here on TUG has some basis.

Yes, I have read many posts of people who have dealt with your company with favorable outcomes.  I've also read about many who have had less than desirable interaction and/or results.

The moderators here on TUG are responsible for the appropriateness of content and adherence to TUG rules.  The fact that Longwell's post has not been removed would suggest there is no err in his response in this thread.

My suggestion would be to take up your issue with him offlist directly with him and/or the TUG administrator crew.  Of course you are free to do as you wish, so long as you too remain within the rules of our little friendly (but sometimes cranky) family.


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## timeos2 (Feb 12, 2012)

The simple fact is that whatever value a timeshare may have is in the use not the purchase price. Whatever you pay - resale or highly inflated retail - is money lost. All it gets you is the right and obligation to pay usually rising fees and if you do you get use of the resort for a period of time or an allotment of points.  If you love a place and want to return then those fees can be worth the cost. If you can trade it or rent it easily then it's worth the fees. But if what it represents is an off season, not particularly in demand use time or a resort that may not be the best or have a ton of features to increase use times then it may make more sense to rent than own.  

So resale "value" as in purchase price, even for the best resorts/times, is usually $5000 or less - often MUCH less.  There just isn't any true worth  in what is paid as a purchase price.  Only the use holds any value at all & that is a tough sell.  If you can see the use value then a "worthless" (in purchase price) ownership you can get great deals from a free ownership.  If that ownership costs more in annual fees (even with no or low initial cost) than you can easily rent it for then it may truly be worthless no matter what the original buyer may have wasted in paying the initial purchase price.  That money does nothing but go in the developers pocket & is totally meaningless in the resale arena.  A timeshare is worth what the market says resale - not retail - price is. More and more that "price" is zero and may even require the seller to pay the transfer fees to make the "sale". That doesn't mean you don't get a good value by taking the deal for a place you want.


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## Free2Roam (Feb 12, 2012)

@Jeff Brown - for what it's worth, I agree with you...and I would be very surprised if there weren't many others here who also agree with you.  I thought maybe I missed something,  although I frequent TUG almost daily. It started off as info sharing but has actually become quite annoying...to the point where I just skim thru most of his posts without giving any credence. I have purchased from your company (and a few other Ebay Sellers) as have a few friends and family members. Not all have been perfect but the ones that weren't have had all issues resolved completely and have had great outcomes.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 12, 2012)

JeffBrown said:


> ... if you do not refrain from that behavior I will pursue it further.



Your threat is noted, my condolences to others that meet the wrath of Sumday Vacations.


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## persia (Feb 13, 2012)

Wyndham prices seem to be rebounding a bit with the US Economy.  I don't foresee the day when they'll command the price of $5 to $10 a thousand they did five years ago, but I can realistically see a return to a dollar or two a thousand.  

Now mind you these are the same points that Wyndham sells you for $200+ a thousand.....


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## DrBopp (Feb 25, 2012)

*Beauty(Value) is in the eye of the beholder......*



timeos2 said:


> The simple fact is that whatever value a timeshare may have is in the use not the purchase price. Whatever you pay - resale or highly inflated retail - is money lost. All it gets you is the right and obligation to pay usually rising fees and if you do you get use of the resort for a period of time or an allotment of points.  If you love a place and want to return then those fees can be worth the cost. If you can trade it or rent it easily then it's worth the fees. But if what it represents is an off season, not particularly in demand use time or a resort that may not be the best or have a ton of features to increase use times then it may make more sense to rent than own.
> 
> So resale "value" as in purchase price, even for the best resorts/times, is usually $5000 or less - often MUCH less.  There just isn't any true worth  in what is paid as a purchase price.  Only the use holds any value at all & that is a tough sell.  If you can see the use value then a "worthless" (in purchase price) ownership you can get great deals from a free ownership.  If that ownership costs more in annual fees (even with no or low initial cost) than you can easily rent it for then it may truly be worthless no matter what the original buyer may have wasted in paying the initial purchase price.  That money does nothing but go in the developers pocket & is totally meaningless in the resale arena.  A timeshare is worth what the market says resale - not retail - price is. More and more that "price" is zero and may even require the seller to pay the transfer fees to make the "sale". That doesn't mean you don't get a good value by taking the deal for a place you want.



I bought an EEY off season(weeks 1-8, 44-48, 50-52) timeshare because it was on a Golf community with reduced rates year round at 7 courses in the Myrtle Beach area. I pay $400 every other year and usually am in the area 3-5 times a year. Seemed a good deal to me when I bought it and it still seems a good deal to me now. So this timeshare has real value to me . Plus, I get a week to use, trade or rent. This is the first year I get to use the condo, but I played golf 5 times last year. 

Gordon

BTW...  I bought this timeshare on Sumday for $99 with no problems and no extra cost.


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