# Updated "Starwood Vacation Ownership" Advice Article



## TUGBrian (Oct 26, 2006)

A huge thank you to "Seenett" for starting this article back in 2001 and constantly updating it for the benefit of all TUG members!

Be sure to check out the latest revision!

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm


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## DeniseM (Oct 26, 2006)

Maybe it's just me, but is the whole article supposed to be centered?  I would be easier on the eyes if it was left justified.

Good job Chris!


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## TUGBrian (Oct 26, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just me, but is the whole article supposed to be centered?  I would be easier on the eyes if it was left justified.
> 
> Good job Chris!




I can left justify it if you all want...guess I wasnt paying attention!


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## Sir Newf (Oct 26, 2006)

Thank you Seenett...as a new owner (less than 1yr) this info is extremely helpful....your efforts are strongly appreciated!


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## Denise L (Oct 26, 2006)

*Great update!*

Great job, Chris. Thanks for putting it all together again.

Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?

If you buy 2 weeks developer and 1 week resale, do you pay the SVN fee on the resale week (3rd week) because it wasn't "authorized?"


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## influential (Oct 26, 2006)

An excellent effort by Chris. Superb.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 26, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> Great job, Chris. Thanks for putting it all together again.
> 
> Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?
> 
> If you buy 2 weeks developer and 1 week resale, do you pay the SVN fee on the resale week (3rd week) because it wasn't "authorized?"


Yes - thank you Chris.

I thought that the SVN fee was covered in a thread a few weeks ago - the 1st 2 TSs have the initial fee (~$100), then a small supplemental fee (~$30), then no fee for more weeks - since these are mandatory resorts - the fee exists whether resale or not..  The thing about being authorized was for 'Gold' status.  (in my understanding)  I own 2 resale weeks and pay ~$130 - SVO/SVN authorization never came up.


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## saluki (Oct 26, 2006)

Much appreciated Chris.

    :whoopie:


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## vic714 (Oct 26, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?



From what I have read Cancun is a voluntary property.

Victor


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## seenett (Oct 26, 2006)

I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory.  Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement.  I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department.  Looks like they got their way with WKORVN.  The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.


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## Denise L (Oct 26, 2006)

*Interesting, I would have thought WKORV-N would be mandatory*



			
				seenett said:
			
		

> I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory.  Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement.  I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department.  Looks like they got their way with WKORVN.  The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.



So is this written in the owner documentation that WKORV-N is non-mandatory? Maybe an owner there can dig it up.

I find this information so interesting...I just assumed it would be the same as WKORV, as the prices are similar. What will this mean for resales at that resort if whoever spends $70K on an OF cannot sell the SOs go with it?! All the other resorts in that price range are mandatory. 

And what of Kauai then?


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## myip (Oct 26, 2006)

I can see why Starwood doesn't want to have manatory resort.  -> people want to be in svn with resale has to buy another unit from developer to retr'd the resale units.


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## duke (Oct 27, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> And what of Kauai then?




Princeville Kauai is Voluntary.


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## vlariano (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks Chris, great new information.


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## malex2 (Oct 27, 2006)

*Mandatory vs. Voluntary Issue*

The whole mandatory vs. voluntary SVN resort distinction bothers me.  On the one hand, no one should be forced to join a dues-paying club they don't intend to use (i.e., plan to use own resort rather than trade in SVN).  On the other hand, if the number of club units decreases, this diminishes the value of SVN to other members.

Personally, I would like to see all Starwood resorts be SVN-voluntary, but with access for all owners who want to participate.  Starwood could charge initial membership & a little higher renewal fees for resales.  If the program is attractive enough (internal trade opportunity/priority without extra II trade fee), people will join and stay in and Starwood would have a good revenue stream.

First time developer buyers could still be induced with points incentives, lower membership fees for a period of time, etc.  The point is to make the system valuable for both developer and buyer (first time or resale).


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 27, 2006)

seenett said:
			
		

> I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory.  Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement.  I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department.  Looks like they got their way with WKORVN.  The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.


Hi Chris -

I think, but not positive, that WKORV-N is actually a mandatory SVN resort.  I believe that this is the case because that was a selling point that they used when I purchased (then rescinded when I found TUG) WKORV-N a year ago.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 27, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> So is this written in the owner documentation that WKORV-N is non-mandatory? Maybe an owner there can dig it up.
> 
> I find this information so interesting...I just assumed it would be the same as WKORV, as the prices are similar. What will this mean for resales at that resort if whoever spends $70K on an OF cannot sell the SOs go with it?! All the other resorts in that price range are mandatory.
> 
> And what of Kauai then?


I still have the WKORV-N documentation - so I can look it up - but as I just posted that a TS selling point was the ability to exchange into other SVN resorts and the list they gave me were other SVN mandatory.

Follow-up: I looked at the WKORV-N documentation - and from what I can tell WKORV-N behaves just like WKORV in that you can use your StarOptions to exchange into other SVN resorts in the SVN system.  I do not see why WPORV (Princeville) would be any different - A big SVO TS selling point is the ability to exchange within the SVN system - watch out what a SVO TS salesman says...


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## Bill4728 (Oct 27, 2006)

malex2 said:
			
		

> The whole mandatory vs. voluntary SVN resort distinction bothers me.  On the one hand, no one should be forced to join a dues-paying club they don't intend to use (i.e., plan to use own resort rather than trade in SVN).  On the other hand, if the number of club units decreases, this diminishes the value of SVN to other members.
> 
> Personally, I would like to see all Starwood resorts be SVN-voluntary, but with access for all owners who want to participate.  Starwood could charge initial membership & a little higher renewal fees for resales.  If the program is attractive enough (internal trade opportunity/priority without extra II trade fee), people will join and stay in and Starwood would have a good revenue stream.
> 
> First time developer buyers could still be induced with points incentives, lower membership fees for a period of time, etc.  The point is to make the system valuable for both developer and buyer (first time or resale).



I could not agree more. 

The fact that as a buyer from the developer, you are can buy a resort which by the fact that it is a mandatory resort will be worth 3 -4 times more on resale, than a voluntary resort makes me upset. I sure that the Kauai or WKORV-N buyers don't know that their purchase is going to be much less valuable when they go to sell then if they had bought WKORV.

You'd would think that starwood would at least make all new resorts mandatory but all three of the new resorts will be voluntary. If not for "requalification" I couldn't ever recommend Starwood for any reason.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 27, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> I could not agree more.
> 
> The fact that as a buyer from the developer, you are can buy a resort which by the fact that it is a mandatory resort will be worth 3 -4 times more on resale, than a voluntary resort makes me upset. I sure that the Kauai or WKORV-N buyers don't know that their purchase is going to be much less valuable when they go to sell then if they had bought WKORV.
> 
> You'd would think that starwood would at least make all new resorts mandatory but all three of the new resorts will be voluntary. If not for "requalification" I couldn't ever recommend Starwood for any reason.


Check out my post above re: WKORV-N - I am not convinced that WPORV is not a mandatory resort.


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## Denise L (Oct 27, 2006)

*Still a mystery, but some things to ponder*

I have been trying to find out about the WKORV-N and WPORV properties and what the SVN designation is. I have heard a couple of things, but nothing "official" yet. I think it will take some digging into the contracts at these two resorts to find the exact wording.

So far, I have heard that WKORV-N is mandatory and WPORV is voluntary. I have also heard that the Hawaii resorts *should* be mandatory because it is really determined by the State of Hawaii's real estate department and how it views timeshares, and apparently internal exchange rights and real estate rights cannot be separated in that State. This will also take some digging to find confirmation of that information, and so far my Internet surfing hasn't paid off.

Does anyone recall that when VV was built, how did resale buyers figure out that the Staroptions transferred with the sale?  I remember reading that Kierland was voluntary way back when it was being built, but then I confirmed with a reliable source back then that it was indeed mandatory. That made for some exciting news on TUG at the time, and all the savvy buyers were (and still are) searching for Kierland deals.

Well, I am fairly certain that WKORV-N is mandatory, and WPORV may indeed *have to be* mandatory as well. I guess we'll keep digging  !


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 8, 2006)

*Princeville is a non-mandatory resort*

The Purchase Agreement for the Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas (which I signed and rescinded) contains a paragraph 7, entitled "Starwood Vacation Network", which provides 

" . . . . Membership and participation in SVN is entirely voluntary . . . . "

The Starwood Vacation Network Owner Membership Agreement for the property includes the following language:

16(a) "Owner's membership in SVN is voluntary",

16(h)  "If Owner elects to sell the Vacation Ownership Interest(s) or otherwise elects not to participate in SVN, SVN Operator will not refund any payments or fees paid by Owner", and 

16 "Owner acknowledges that his or her membership in SVN . . . cannot be transferred or assigned."

BTW, a two bedroom lockout at Princeville costs $47,500; MF's are $2,079 + $103 for the optional SVN membership fee.


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## tomandrobin (Nov 8, 2006)

vacationtime1 said:
			
		

> The Purchase Agreement for the Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas (which I signed and rescinded) contains a paragraph 7, entitled "Starwood Vacation Network", which provides
> 
> " . . . . Membership and participation in SVN is entirely voluntary . . . . "
> 
> ...



I am surprised by this. I can see Cancun being voluntary, but not the Princville Resort.


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## smsavage (Nov 8, 2006)

I would be surprised if they continued to require mandatory participation in SVN at new resorts.  Limiting resales to the resorts purchased makes developer purchased weeks (and the corresponding ability to trade within the SVN system) far more appealing. 

If that were to become the case, I think that you'd see resale prices at existing mandatory resorts begin to climb.


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## reddiablosv (Nov 8, 2006)

This is great news for existing VV resale owners.  I believe there is a bargain for 81K staroptions on ebay right now!!   I would keep quite about it, but with 30 timeshares I have about as many as I can handle.     Ben


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## DeniseM (Nov 8, 2006)

I think it's good news for existing WKORV owners too.  WKORV weeks should hold their resale value better than WKORVN.  It will be interesting to see what happens when WKORVN resale weeks start hitting the market.


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## Denise L (Nov 8, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> I think it's good news for existing WKORV owners too.  WKORV weeks should hold their resale value better than WKORVN.  It will be interesting to see what happens when WKORVN resale weeks start hitting the market.



Hi Denise,

Just curious why you would think that WKORV would hold its value better than WKORV-N. As far as I am aware, both are mandatory resorts. I would think that the resale prices would be similar?

I am surprised about WPORV. As I posted previously, it is my understanding that the *state of Hawaii requires* that the SVN privileges be transferred with the deed upon resale.  

Can anyone who owns Kierland find the wording in their contract that states that it is a mandatory resort?  I just remember how it was talked about as being voluntary initially but then was really mandatory.  Just wondering what the docs specifically say.


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## smsavage (Nov 8, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> I think it's good news for existing WKORV owners too.  WKORV weeks should hold their resale value better than WKORVN.  It will be interesting to see what happens when WKORVN resale weeks start hitting the market.






Think SDO or SMV at the beach...But more expensive.....


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## MON2REY (Nov 8, 2006)

DeniseM,
Please explain your logic.  If both WKORV and WKORVN are mandatory why do you think the older one would hold its value better?


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## smsavage (Nov 8, 2006)

I think that what's missing in this equation is confirmation that WKORVN is mandatory. If that's the case, WKORV N and S should hold value in a similar fashion. 

Perhaps they started WKORVN sales before looking at SVN issues, as they appear to have at the new voluntary resorts? Cancun and Princeville sales began later and possibly after a change in corporate philosophy.

Anyone have WKORVN contract language handy?


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## Denise L (Nov 8, 2006)

I thought that someone posted here that they read their contract and WKORV-N is mandatory.

For what it is worth, I have heard "unofficially" that WKORV-N is mandatory, and from more than one source.

Starwood owners, find the fine print about this for WKORV-N and Kierland, and post here if you get a chance!


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 8, 2006)

It was me - WKORV-N is mandatory - I have the docs from when I rescinded.  I am not sure about WPORV - my docs have similar text as reported above.  Being able to exchange was a selling point - as it is for WPORV.  The docs are textually confusing because they read as if it is not required to pay the SVN fee unless you want to exchange within the SVN system - and therefore not mandatory (but we know that is not the case).

The docs are a PDF file and is a very large file - I can't copy paste from them - the paper docs I have for WKORV have similar text.

Why not just call SVO direct sales and ask?

The MFs fees for WPORV sure are high.


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## DeniseM (Nov 8, 2006)

I'm basing my post on Chris's post.  Maybe I misread something, but I haven't seen anyone post that it clearly stated in their contract that it is "mandatory."  Until then, I 'm going with Chris.  (I'm actually hoping it's voluntary!) 

*I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory. Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement. I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department. Looks like they got their way with WKORVN. The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.*


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## arlene22 (Nov 8, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> I still have the WKORV-N documentation - so I can look it up - but as I just posted that a TS selling point was the ability to exchange into other SVN resorts and the list they gave me were other SVN mandatory.
> 
> Follow-up: I looked at the WKORV-N documentation - and from what I can tell WKORV-N behaves just like WKORV in that you can use your StarOptions to exchange into other SVN resorts in the SVN system.  I do not see why WPORV (Princeville) would be any different - A big SVO TS selling point is the ability to exchange within the SVN system - watch out what a SVO TS salesman says...



If you buy a voluntary resort from Starwood, you would still be able to exchange within SVN. There is no difference to the original owner. The question is, whether or not that privilege extends to a resale purchaser.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 8, 2006)

oh - the madness...

As discussed - WKORV and WKORV-N are mandatory - the TS docs have the same wording in this regard.  The ability to exchange does exist for mandatory resale - and the SVN exchange fee is charged accordingly ( I have been charged $103 for WKORV and $33 for WSJ as the second TS). 

I know nothing about non-mandatory/voluntary resorts other (from what I can interpret) than that buyers from the developer can pay the fee to exchange if they want to use the SVN exchange system - resale buyers may not have this available to them.

We should clear this up and update the SVN advice article so it is clear.

Follow-up - yet again:
What is confusion in the WKORV (S&N) docs is they talk about 'Points' as StarOptions (page 8 of the Owners Handbook) yet we know that StarPoints are not the same as StarOptions - this leads to confusion.  Regardless - it then talks about the 'SVN Club' where these 'points' are used to reserve aor exchange.  With WKORV (S&N) you are part of this SVN Club.

Like I said - the docs are textually confusing, but the wording between WKORV and WKORV-N are identical - and is WKORV is mandatory (as we know it is) then WKORV-N would also be. The docs go on to discuss SVN Points being different than Club Points - we know these as StarPoints.

When we bought WKORV-N - the docs had a SVN fee that was used to exchange within the SVN system - this was a mandatory fee - thus again making WKORV-N a mandatory resort.


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## DeniseM (Nov 8, 2006)

I understand what you're saying Robin, and you may be right, but the contracts you are quoting from talk about your rights when you buy from the developer, so I don't think they we can assume it applies to resales as well.  It could go either way, but since Cancun and WPORV are both voluntary, it makes you wonder about WKORVN.  Hopefully, we will eventually get a definitive answer.


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

*Where does it talk about this in original WKORV docs?*

I just spent the past hour going through our WKORV purchase agreement, looking for info on mandatory SVN, etc. Does anyone know where I would find this information?

The reason I am asking is because my good friends own at WKORV-N and are also looking through their docs for "proof" so that we might put this issue to rest. However, they need some guidance in finding it and I was looking for maybe a section or a page or something in my docs, but I couldn't find anything. Can someone help me out, so that I can point them to the right section, and then I can quote the section here (assuming it exists).

Thanks!


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi DM - David here - just 11 days until our wedding nuptials in Maui - hopefully no rain (or earthquakes) - and our 1st stay at WKORV (woohoo) - we are looking forward to the OF Deluxe LO - with family in every room (not much of a Honeymoon - haha) - hopefully we are on a high floor (the seller requested 12 months out, but don't know if that reset with our purchase last Jan.)  Our family will be stuffing ourself on T-Day with 10 of us - hopefully it will be roomy enough (and that we can get a turkey at the Safeway) sure hopes it's better than 7.5 (sorry - couldn't help myself - I have a rotten sense of humor).
Congrats on your Tahoe purchase - beautiful area - we have good friends who own a house in Lahontan (Truckee) - lucky us. And also know of an inexpensive cabin rental in Kings Beach (another friend).

Regarding the whole voluntary/mandatory thing. I really don't care one way or another - I do not plan to exchange from our OF WKORV or WSJ - it would not be worth it value-wise - WSJ has poor SOs and we plan to go every year (looking to hopefully buy the sellers other week someday).  And the OF Deluxe at WKORV would only be a downward exchange (that was the reason we rescinded WKORV-N and paid less of a small fortune for WKORV).  We may buy 81K SOs at WKV to exchange into WPORV someday (or stay at WKV). 

I don't understand the big deal about mandatory/voluntary - I would gladly not pay the SVN fee since I have no need to exchange (except the studio LO perhaps if I could exchange into WSJ for week23/25 - fat chance).  
From my undertanding -  if one buys a voluntary resort resale they cannot get into the SVN system, but if they buy from the Developer they can if they pay the fee.  And if one buys a mandatory resort (resale or Developer) they can use the SVN system, and must pay the fee regardless.  Isn't that correct - or am I missing something?  

I am not following the logic here regarding WKORVN.  Are you saying that if I  buy resale at WKORV-N - I cannot get into the SVN system - and therefore cannot exchange thru the SVN system (even if they wanted to pay the SVN fee) - thereby making WKORV-N voluntary?

The docs I have (both resorts) are essentially identical except for the addresses and some formatting. Nowhere does it state that if you sell your unit the buyer does not get into the 'SVN Club' (aka SVN exchange),

Doesn't make sense - not to have the same SVN exchange resort privledges at WKORV-N as we do at WKORV - that was what they were trying to sell me on.  Why would it be in any way different between the 2 adjacent resorts - with the same contract language?  Why would someone buy a voluntary resort and not have that available to them.  That would suck to pay all that money for WKORV-N and not be able to sell to someone unless the resale buyer would be prepared to always stay there.

Again - am I missing something?  I am more curious than anything.

I can burn the two PDF files and send them to you - I have tried to read them, but as I said - not a straight forward read.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> I just spent the past hour going through our WKORV purchase agreement, looking for info on mandatory SVN, etc. Does anyone know where I would find this information?
> 
> The reason I am asking is because my good friends own at WKORV-N and are also looking through their docs for "proof" so that we might put this issue to rest. However, they need some guidance in finding it and I was looking for maybe a section or a page or something in my docs, but I couldn't find anything. Can someone help me out, so that I can point them to the right section, and then I can quote the section here (assuming it exists).
> 
> ...



As I just wrote (long) to DM - nowhere in the Owners Manual can I find differences between the two resorts.  I have both Owners Manuals - it would unlikely be in the Purchase Contract - the PC should point to the Owners Manual.  Don't you have a copy of the WKORV-N docs on CD ROM?  I do, but too big to send by email.  I could try and compress and send - or I can burn and send - if you don't have them (very long).

Or - why not call SVO Direct sales and ask?

Pages 5-9 of the owners manual describes the 'points' and 'SVN club'


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

In a nutshell, resales at voluntary resorts do not come with any Staroptions for internal SVN exchanges. It's that simple. Yes, there are no SVN fees, but what you get is a week (or whatever you bought) at that resort, and the option to exchange externally via II or SFX or other private exchange companies.

What this does is severely lower the value of the week that was originally purchased from the developer. If a buyer can't get into SVN, then it is, in theory, worth less to him. Now, if a buyer is happy buying just a week at that resort, then the mandatory/voluntary shouldn't matter to him in the least.  But for those who paid full price from the developer, it's quite a substantial loss of value when the time comes to sell.

In my opinion, it would be nice if Starwood followed HGVC, Hyatt, Marriott and DVC in this respect. They keep their values up and extend the internal exchange privileges to resale purchases. 

It's a still a relatively "young" player in this market. Maybe things will change down the road.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> In a nutshell, resales at voluntary resorts do not come with any Staroptions for internal SVN exchanges. It's that simple. Yes, there are no SVN fees, but what you get is a week (or whatever you bought) at that resort, and the option to exchange externally via II or SFX or other private exchange companies.
> 
> What this does is severely lower the value of the week that was originally purchased from the developer. If a buyer can't get into SVN, then it is, in theory, worth less to him. Now, if a buyer is happy buying just a week at that resort, then the mandatory/voluntary shouldn't matter to him in the least.  But for those who paid full price from the developer, it's quite a substantial loss of value when the time comes to sell.
> 
> ...



OK - I get it - I think that was what I was saying???  - luckily it doesn't really matter to me.  Given that - why would someone buy voluntary - and why would SVO care if they are getting their fee?

Section 7 (page 17) is the section on Restraints on Transfer of Buyers Interest.

I would be willing to put $ that WKORV-N is mandatory - but then again I like to gamble...


Follow-up - I just read Section 7 - if SVO does not exercise there ROFR refusal - they are consenting - HOWEVER they must be informed of the sell - if not informed, then SVN priviledges are not extended to the buyer (and are blocked)


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> Don't you have a copy of the WKORV-N docs on CD ROM?  I do, but too big to send by email.  I could try and compress and send - or I can burn and send - if you don't have them (very long).
> 
> Or - why not call SVO Direct sales and ask?
> 
> Pages 5-9 of the owners manual describes the 'points' and 'SVN club'



Hi David,

I have the WKORV docs on CD...DH did a search for mandatory, voluntary, but nothing came up. Maybe nothing is written if it is mandatory, whereas in the WPORV docs, it is explicitly spelled out.

I haven't tried the SVO Direct sales yet. Like I said, my sources say WKORV-N is mandatory, so maybe "no text" is the proof? I still would like to find out if Kierland's documents also contain no text.  If the one common element in all the mandatory resorts is no text like WPORV's, then that should be some sort of confirmation  .

All we have to do is wait for the first TUGer to buy a WKORV-N resale  , then we'll know.


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> Or - why not call SVO Direct sales and ask?



Hi David - Thanks for your response.  When a couple signs both names to their posts I am never sure who I am responding to.  It seems like a good idea to call SVO Direct Sales and ask, but you will probably get a different answer every time you call.  Past experience says that the sales office doesn't know much about resales, and it's in their best interest to give an answer that supports buying from the developer.

My own selfish reason for hoping that the WKORVN is voluntary is that in a few  years, I hope I will be able to sell our mandatory WKORV OV Unit and buy a WKORVN ocean front unit for the same or less!


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> OK - I get it - I think that was what I was saying???  - luckily it doesn't really matter to me.  Given that - why would someone buy voluntary - and why would SVO care if they are getting their fee?
> 
> Section 7 (page 17) is the section on Restraints on Transfer of Buyers Interest.
> 
> I would be willing to put $ that WKORV-N is mandatory - but then again I like to gamble...



Someone will buy voluntary if they just want a week at that resort. And the prices are significantly lower than buying direct, so why not? They can still trade with II or another company. Others buy them cheap and then get them requalified with a retail purchase.

I did read that section above, but there is nothing explicit that I can see there. Oh well, on to more interesting things!

Enjoy your wedding, how exciting  ! Our anniversary of our Maui wedding is Friday! Wish we were there now, but the kids school schedule came first this year. Maybe next year...


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2006)

OK - last post on this - it does look as if WPORV is voluntary from the post #21 that contains language specific to this point.  WKORV-N is mandatory (sorry DM) - there is no language in the TS docs that prohibits transfer of SVN Club priviledges upon resale unless SVO is not informed of the sell and has a option for a ROFR.


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

*Starwood Vacation Exchange Company Disclosure Guide*

My DH found this on page 533 of our 2003 WKORV Owner's Handbook:

"If the SVN member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest, the person no longer will be an SVN Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest automatically will become the SVN Member."


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## MON2REY (Nov 9, 2006)

I briefly scanned my purchase documents.  On the first page in about the third section it states that I am a member of SVN.  Nowhere was there any mention of my ability to opt out by not paying the fees.  I assume, by that, that membership is "mandatory" at WKORVN.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 9, 2006)

This is such a simple question " are the princeville and WKORV-N resorts mandatory?"  The fact that it is so hard to find the answer to that question is one of the reasons why I dislike Starwood. You'd think we Tuggers could easily find that answer. 

That Starwood would may a policy ''All new resorts will be mandatory or all new resorts will be voluntary". The fact that someone says that the state of hawaii requires mandatory resorts yet it appears that princeville is voluntary. All this just makes me crazy. (crazier? LOL )


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2006)

MON2REY said:
			
		

> I briefly scanned my purchase documents.  On the first page in about the third section it states that I am a member of SVN.  Nowhere was there any mention of my ability to opt out by not paying the fees.  I assume, by that, that membership is "mandatory" at WKORVN.



Not really, because ALL the SVN resorts are mandatory for owners who buy from the developer, but they are not all mandatory when you buy resale.  In other words, if you buy from the developer, you cannot opt out of SVN membership.  You can't assume that applies to resales, unless it is explictly stated.


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## grgs (Nov 9, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> My DH found this on page 533 of our 2003 WKORV Owner's Handbook:
> 
> "If the SVN member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest, the person no longer will be an SVN Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest automatically will become the SVN Member."



It took me a while to find it, but my Kierland CD-ROM has the exact same language on p. 196. 

Gee our whole document is 262 p.  I wonder why yours is so much longer!  

Glorian


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## Denise L (Nov 9, 2006)

grgs said:
			
		

> It took me a while to find it, but my Kierland CD-ROM has the exact same language on p. 196.
> 
> Gee our whole document is 262 p.  I wonder why yours is so much longer!
> 
> Glorian



Hi Glorian, thanks for taking a look. Now we just need to find that language in the WKORV-N docs. I've asked my friend to take a look for us.

I don't know why our docs are so long!


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## wingkng (Nov 11, 2006)

*WKORVN is mandatory*



			
				deniselew said:
			
		

> My DH found this on page 533 of our 2003 WKORV Owner's Handbook:
> 
> "If the SVN member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest, the person no longer will be an SVN Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest automatically will become the SVN Member."



I have recently purchased at WKORVN, and because I had question about the mandatory issue after the purchase, I went and looked at the Owner's Handbook.  From review of it, the WKORVN does indeed have the very same phrase about SVN Membership.  So, my conclusion is that WKORVN is mandatory.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 11, 2006)

I also read thru the most pertainent parts of the 500+ pages of the Owner docs - and WKORV-N is mandatory.  The 'SVN Club' is transferred to the buyer upon purchase.

The question remains - what about WPORV (Princeville)?  It appears to be voluntary - which the other denise (lew) says that this may be in violation of Hawaiian TS regulations.  However, I am sure the lawyers at SVO have looked into this, and if WPORV is Voluntary - then I would assume that this has been covered.

I would like to see the SVN advice article better describe mandatory and voluntary SVN resorts.

As I understand it for SVN exchanges (please correct if wrong):
For Mandatory resorts - both buyer from SVO (Developer) and resale have access to SVN ('SVN Club'), and are required to pay the SVN fee (~$100 for the 1st, ~$30 for the second, and 3+ at no additional charge) - and cannot opt-out.

For Voluntary resorts - the buyer from SVO can pay the SVN fee to get into SVN ('SVN Club') for SVN exchanges if they choose to.  However, this priviledge cannot be transferred to a resale buyer.  Meaning, a resale buyer of a Voluntary resort cannot use SVN for exchanges.


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## Denise L (Nov 11, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> The question remains - what about WPORV (Princeville)?  It appears to be voluntary - which the other denise (lew) says that this may be in violation of Hawaiian TS regulations.  However, I am sure the lawyers at SVO have looked into this, and if WPORV is Voluntary - then I would assume that this has been covered.



I have heard that WPORV is voluntary, and the text from the purchase agreement posted earlier clearly indicates this.  So perhaps Starwood and the Hawaii DRE have agreed that this will be the case.  I have only _heard_ that the state of Hawaii does not allow the internal exchange privileges to be separated from the deed, but I have no written proof of this. Still digging.

In the meantime, I guess we assume it is voluntary until we hear otherwise. I can't imagine it would be good for sales.  Are they truly selling this property today? Has anyone bought it?


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