# Is it just me or do you notice some Tuggers getting more cranky?



## dmharris (Feb 7, 2012)

I've always been impressed with the helpfulness and cordiality of Tuggers.  But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug.  I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean.  I wish it would stop.  Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.  

Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.  

Leaving now before someone throws something at me!


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## pjrose (Feb 7, 2012)

dmharris said:


> I've always been impressed with the helpfulness and cordiality of Tuggers.  But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug.  I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean.  I wish it would stop.  Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
> 
> Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.
> 
> Leaving now before someone throws something at me!



Hmmm....I must have missed those.  On the Lounge?  

I've certainly noticed that from certain people and it's almost a no-brainer that it's going to happen in some threads (destined for locks), but I haven't seen those recently.


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## Passepartout (Feb 7, 2012)

There are certainly some with an agenda. Whether it's pro Apple, anti MS, Pro Vida, anti Westgate, pro dog, anti cat, pro Wyndham, anti Marriott, big vs small, light meat vs dark, we all have opinions. It's just that mine are better than yours. 

Thank goodness the mods have set certain boundaries and stick to them- even though some of us push 'em a little. This election year, I'd LOVE to expound a little or at least point out the faux pas of the faux passers, but I know that it's for the best to keep silent. Now- about that 'lack of sex, etc?'.....

Jim


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## Talent312 (Feb 7, 2012)

dmharris said:


> Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.



But it wasn't your mama that said that.
It was Thumper in "Bambi" (1942), relating what his father told him.

Mrs. Rabbit: What did your father tell you this morning? 
Thumper: [clears throat] If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all.
-- _From IMDb, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034492/quotes_


Count me in as a cranky old geezer who has lost the patience to suffer fools gladly.


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## DebBrown (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes, I've noticed a few threads where I've wondered why someone bothered to post something unhelpful and just mean.  I'm cranky myself these days or I wouldn't have posted in this thread.  :ignore: 

Deb


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## Mosca (Feb 7, 2012)

We started out as just "older", but now we're cranky old geezers.


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## Elan (Feb 7, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> There are certainly some with an agenda. Whether it's pro Apple, anti MS, Pro Vida, anti Westgate, pro dog, anti cat, pro Wyndham, anti Marriott, big vs small, light meat vs dark, we all have opinions. It's just that mine are better than yours.
> 
> Thank goodness the mods have set certain boundaries and stick to them- even though some of us push 'em a little. This election year, I'd LOVE to expound a little or at least point out the faux pas of the faux passers, but I know that it's for the best to keep silent. Now- about that 'lack of sex, etc?'.....
> 
> Jim



  Agenda?  Really?  I hadn't noticed that..........  :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## ronparise (Feb 7, 2012)

cranky??...who me?

The threads I like the most are the ones where someone has a point of view and isnt afraid to defend it.  And I learn a whole lot more from a negative presentation than I do from one that only talks about the positive

The emphasis on being nice  is what I like least on TUG. Not that Im advocating mean and nasty, but I do prefer honest and direct.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 7, 2012)

I like the "be nice" rules on TUG and abide them.  I am shocked at some who don't even belong to TUG yet get by with nasty remarks, directed at specific TUG members.  

I am getting a little cranky at the cranky people on one particular thread.  I am done with it.  

It would actually be easy to stop TUG completely for me at this point.  PA- did it, and he said it was very freeing.  Hatrack, too.


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## DeniseM (Feb 7, 2012)

What I've noticed lately is a lot of posters who really have nothing to say, and are only here to stir the pot....


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## Elan (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm more like Ron.  I'd rather folks were honest than nice.  I was raised to call a spade a spade and that honesty trumps all.  

  In other words, don't ask me if those jeans make your a__ look big.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 7, 2012)

*When You Call Me That, Smile.*




Elan said:


> I'd rather folks were honest than nice.  I was raised to call a spade a spade and that honesty trumps all.


It is possible to tell it the way it is & call a spade a spade, etc., without being blunt or brusque or insulting or off-putting. 

It is possible to tell people to go to hell in such a nice way that they look forward to the trip.

It's called _diplomacy_. 

You could look it up. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Elan (Feb 7, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> It is possible to tell it the way it is & call a spade a spade, etc., without being blunt or brusque or insulting or off-putting.
> 
> It is possible to tell people to go to hell in such a nice way that they look forward to the trip.
> 
> ...



  Yep.  And it's also possible that some don't practice what they preach.

  Life's funny that way, isn't it?


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## heathpack (Feb 7, 2012)

dmharris said:


> I've always been impressed with the helpfulness and cordiality of Tuggers.  But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug.  I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean.  I wish it would stop.  Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
> 
> Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.
> 
> Leaving now before someone throws something at me!



Totally agree with this.  There have been some pretty appalling posts lately.  As some others have mentioned, I also won't visit TUG if it becomes your typical rude Internet BBS.  Life is too short to voluntarily subject yourself to that kind of BS.  Hopefully it won't come to that.

H


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 7, 2012)

*I Resemble That Remark.*



Elan said:


> And it's also possible that some don't practice what they preach.






-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MichaelColey (Feb 7, 2012)

I haven't really noticed it, but I don't read every thread.  It's usually pretty obvious which threads are going to be contentious and which ones are worth reading and participating in.  I find people here VERY helpful and friendly.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 7, 2012)

Everything seems fine to me unless you were in the Marriott forum last week.


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 7, 2012)

And I thought I was doing well to hide my crankiness.


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## easyrider (Feb 7, 2012)

An old Cherokee tells his grandson,"My son, there is a battle between two wolves inside us all. One is evil. It is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego. The other is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, emphathy and truth."

The boy thought about it for a minute and asked, " Grandfather, which wolf wins ? "

The old man quietly replied, " Which ever one you feed".


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## easyrider (Feb 7, 2012)

Hey Allen, your smile made me smile.


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## timeos2 (Feb 7, 2012)

The general state of the overall economy the past few years and the even worse state of virtually everything timeshare related has changed the tenor of many timeshare discussions.  Not that long ago it was about a happy picture of reasonable cost vacations everyone wanted. Now it tends more toward "I can't afford it" and "How do I get rid of it" or "Why do fees keep going up?" - hardly upbeat topics. 

If there is a more negative tone it is an unfortunate reflection of the sad state far too many have found themselves in.  It may be self inflicted or forced on them but either way the luxuries like timeshares - and discussions about them - tend to take a negative turn. 

Want to bet if things ever do turn around in the timeshare world the tone would become far more upbeat again?


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## Sandi Bo (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with the OP, there have been some uncalled for, pretty harsh, comments.  And not helpful either. And I don't think from anyone that has posted on this thread (IMO).

Information and opinions posted on TUG have been invaluable for me and posters certainly don't have to agree. I appreciate the differences in opinion and different angles and spins people put on things. There are at least 3 sides to every story. It's probably been the ones in the lounge that are more susceptible to some rude (and uncalled for) comments.

I think my mother said it first, and Bambi copied. (If you can't say anything nice, don't say anythign at all). It's a good rule to live by.  In the high-tech, internet world, it is easy to come across harsh.  I try not to, but I also keep that in mind when reading a comment from someone and give them the benefit of the doubt (they didn't REALLY mean to come across that harsh...). And I try to have thick skin... sometimes you need it.


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## dmharris (Feb 8, 2012)

I spend most of my TUG time in the Lounge or the Marriott boards and I've seen surprising comments on both recently.  I waited awhile to post this till things settled down but it is still bothering me.  It felt like friends weren't being friendly and I wasn't even in the conversation, yet it hurt me to read it so I stopped, but it still bothered me.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 8, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> The general state of the overall economy the past few years and the even worse state of virtually everything timeshare related has changed the tenor of many timeshare discussions.  .....If there is a more negative tone it is an unfortunate reflection of the sad state far too many have found themselves in.....



Unhappy situations and the economy .... I see it more and more. As OP on the Wyndham Corporate renting out my Fixed Deeded week and the attic insulation thieves, I then yesterday got the phone call from my 87 yo aunt who had stuff in her yard STOLEN AGAIN - this time a 1961 Plymonth car and other scrap metal (last month it was the downsprouts, scaffolding, etc). Her house is 3/4 of a mile from mine. She is just crushed. Her house sits on 12 acres. It is alarmed with SAT phone hook up; now I will have to gate the property. Her A-hole (and losing it mentally) BF and his 57 yo son (who is broke) will now start another campaign on my aunt - sell that house or give it to Linda. Their brow beating is physically so much WORST on my aunt than the thefts.


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## ace2000 (Feb 8, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Hmmm....I must have missed those.  On the Lounge?
> 
> I've certainly noticed that from certain people and it's almost a no-brainer that it's going to happen in some threads (destined for locks), but I haven't seen those recently.


 
I must have missed them also.  The moderators do a great job keeping TUG a helpful and informative site.  

Just because someone disagrees with someone else doesn't mean they're cranky.  Some have a real hard time accepting that disagreement when it happens to one of their posts.  And some have a real hard time reading posts that rock their mindset.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 8, 2012)

ace2000 said:


> I must have missed them also.  The moderators do a great job keeping TUG a helpful and informative site.
> 
> Just because someone disagrees with someone else doesn't mean they're cranky.  Some have a real hard time accepting that disagreement when it happens to one of their posts.  And some have a real hard time reading posts that rock their mindset.



I think the OP is referring to a thread or 2 on the Marriott board from last week.


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## Patri (Feb 8, 2012)

I also haven't noticed anything out of the norm, but I hope people don't get nasty just because they are hiding behind a computer screen. Would they speak to someone in person the same way?
I think most people would be polite face to face in presenting a different point of view, and that should be true here as well.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 8, 2012)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




Patri said:


> I think most people would be polite face to face in presenting a different point of view, and that should be true here as well.


You typed a mouthful. 

It is always a good recommendation to keep one's words soft & tender, because one never knows when one will have to eat them. 

Plus, as it says in the Bible, _A Soft Answer Turneth Away Wrath_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## geekette (Feb 8, 2012)

I believe that a person can be honest, direct AND nice.  I try to be that.  Until someone takes a potshot at me. Then my sarcastic side shows up.  

Was it Roadhouse where Patrick Swayze told his bouncers to be nice until it was time to not be nice anymore??

I do agree the state of the economy has many more stressed.  And just looking at thread titles in the lounge tells you that some people are dealing with some very serious Life Issues.

I like to give wide latitude.  I don't know what all someone is dealing with in their non-virtual lives.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 8, 2012)

Unfortunately in life there will always be those negative voices that you just can't pay attention to.

I have noticed an increase in negativity on TUG and I'm not talking about the Marriott topics that I'm personally a lightening rod for. 

I've just noticed over the last year or so a new breed of TUGGERS that are less respectful than the veteran TUGGER. Sure there are some old-time TUGGERS that I can think of that are negative voices but to me its the new breed that like stir up the pot for no reason and are also disrespectful of others opinions and feelings.


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 8, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Unfortunately in life there will always be those negative voices that you just can't pay attention to.
> 
> I have noticed an increase in negativity on TUG and I'm not talking about the Marriott topics that I'm personally a lightening rod for.
> 
> I've just noticed over the last year or so a new breed of TUGGERS that are less respectful than the veteran TUGGER. Sure there are some old-time TUGGERS that I can think of that are negative voices but to me its the new breed that like stir up the pot for no reason and are also disrespectful of others opinions and feelings.



I agree with Joe in his observations.  I also feel there seems to be more people who don't want to answer your question, but instead talk you out of whatever you're planning to do in order to do it a better (their?) way.

Sometimes I just want MY question answered without a lot of nonsense or having to justify things.


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## Elan (Feb 8, 2012)

geekette said:


> I believe that a person can be honest, direct AND nice.  I try to be that.  Until someone takes a potshot at me. Then my sarcastic side shows up.



  Well said.


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## ace2000 (Feb 8, 2012)

I just want TUG to be exactly what I want TUG to be.  Why can't I be in charge around here?

Personally, I like TUG just the way it is... good, bad, and the ugly.  I appreciate both old and new.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Feb 8, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Unfortunately in life there will always be those negative voices that you just can't pay attention to.
> 
> I have noticed an increase in negativity on TUG and I'm not talking about the Marriott topics that I'm personally a lightening rod for.
> 
> I've just noticed over the last year or so a new breed of TUGGERS that are less respectful than the veteran TUGGER. Sure there are some old-time TUGGERS that I can think of that are negative voices but to me its the new breed that like stir up the pot for no reason and are also disrespectful of others opinions and feelings.


  I agree with you.  I use to come to TUG all the time to get great information, etc... But I stopped lately.  Sometimes I'm lucky if I login weekly.  I've been turned off with the tone.   I still think there is a lot of great information I just don't partake in the discussions as much any more.  The feeling I get from most people is that I'm a loser for owning timeshares.  Personally, I'm not.   But that's my opinion.  I love my vacations.


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## Karen G (Feb 8, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> The *feeling I get from most people* is that I'm a loser for owning timeshares.  Personally, I'm not.   But that's my opinion.  I love my vacations.


I once heard a very good lecture about how we "feel" and respond to the actions of others. The speaker said that no one can make us "feel" one way or another--our feelings are under our own control. He illustrated his point with a story about an older Asian man working in a store. A robber approached him at gunpoint and demanded his money. One might think the man would "feel" scared, threatened, and unable to act. But this particular man was highly trained in martial arts. He relished the opportunity to put his training to good use and was able to disarm the robber and seriously injure him. He didn't let the robber determine how he was going to "feel."

So, on TUG or anywhere else, why let opinions that are different from your own determine how you are going to feel or respond? Agree to disagree without being disagreeable yourself. Opinions are like noses--everybody has one. Keep your own clean and nobody gets hurt around here.


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## thinze3 (Feb 8, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> The general state of the overall economy the past few years and the even worse state of virtually everything timeshare related has changed the tenor of many timeshare discussions.  Not that long ago it was about a happy picture of reasonable cost vacations everyone wanted. Now it tends more toward "I can't afford it" and "How do I get rid of it" or "Why do fees keep going up?" - hardly upbeat topics.
> 
> If there is a more negative tone it is an unfortunate reflection of the sad state far too many have found themselves in.  It may be self inflicted or forced on them but either way the luxuries like timeshares - and discussions about them - tend to take a negative turn.
> 
> Want to bet if things ever do turn around in the timeshare world the tone would become far more upbeat again?



I agree with John.


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## geekette (Feb 8, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> ...The feeling I get from most people is that I'm a loser for owning timeshares.  Personally, I'm not.   But that's my opinion.  I love my vacations.



If you mean on Tug, then that is alarming.  If you mean non-Tug people, then, well, they jsut don't get it!

We are all like Charlie Sheen:  WINNING!!!  

[a joke, ok, I'm reasonably certain that no one here is quite like CS, at least, I hope not!  but, we are of course all winners (smarm very much intended)]

there are a few non-owners here but most are of the "been there, done that, sold them" ilk or the "I want to buy" crowd that landed them here.

If someone on tug is making you feel like a loser for owning timeshares,  that's a problem.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't think anyone who was smart enough to find and learn from TUG is a loser.  The brightest and smartest timeshare owners are here.


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 8, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> I don't think anyone who was smart enough to find and learn from TUG is a loser.  The brightest and smartest timeshare owners are here.




+1 to Michael!


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## Whirl (Feb 8, 2012)

I am ok with direct and honest, done respectfully. 
I agree that TUG in more recent years is a much more contentious board and some discussions turn unnecessarily personal and hostile.

My biggest gripe are the Repetitive-dead-horse-beating agendas and opinions that are infiltrated needlessly into conversations and take the whole thread off track. It's exasperating and makes reading  TUG exhausting at times.


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## Passepartout (Feb 8, 2012)

I think that the Lounge, by and large, is pretty open and respectful. Though after the same question has been asked for the hundredth time without someone consulting a sticky can elicit some short tempered responses. Some of the Group forums (Marriott, Wyndham, and the Mexico forum) can get a little testy from time to time. 

There are a few folks- we know who they are- who have needed to be reigned in a little, and there are an even smaller number who just want to stir up the (manure).

That's why there is a kill (ignore) list. If a poster annoys you enough, just zap 'em with the kill list (it's in the User CP), and unless they are quoted, you don't see them.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Feb 8, 2012)

How to put someone on ignore:

1)  Click on their blue user name
2)  From the drop down menu select "View Public Profile"
3)  On the next page, in the blue bar, click on "Add _username_ to your ignore list"
4)  Click "Save List"


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## klpca (Feb 8, 2012)

Whirl said:


> I am ok with direct and honest, done respectfully.
> I agree that TUG in more recent years is a much more contentious board and some discussions turn unnecessarily personal and hostile.
> 
> My biggest gripe are the Repetitive-dead-horse-beating agendas and opinions that are infiltrated needlessly into conversations and take the whole thread off track. It's exasperating and makes reading  TUG exhausting at times.



I agree with this. It gets tiring seeing the same canned responses. We get it - that they don't like a particular management company or whatever. That's absolutely fine. Why some feel that it needs to be repeated over and over again is beyond me. I have no trouble ignoring them, but they do take threads off topic with regularity.

Even on it's worst days, this board is tame compared to a lot of others out there.


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## PigsDad (Feb 8, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> How to put someone on ignore:
> 
> 1)  Click on their blue user name
> 2)  From the drop down menu select "View Public Profile"
> ...


But it does not allow you to put a user who happens to be an administrator on your ignore list.  There are a couple of users on a certain "other" forum that I would love to put on that list...  

Kurt


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## PigsDad (Feb 8, 2012)

klpca said:


> I agree with this. It gets tiring seeing the same canned responses. We get it - that they don't like a particular management company or whatever. That's absolutely fine. Why some feel that it needs to be repeated over and over again is beyond me. I have no trouble ignoring them, but they do take threads off topic with regularity.


I certainly understand your frustration.  And if someone calls them out on those posts (even if done nicely), they usually get trounced upon.

IMO, some opinions outside of the mainstream are not very well received here.  Take, for example, these two "mainstream" ideas:

Always buy resale
PCCs never provide a valid service to their customers
If anyone challenges those statements, they are beaten down by the masses and often their intelligence or maturity is called into question.  It is rare that someone posts something to the tune of "I understand your opinion, but I disagree with you".  I just chalk that up to the anonymity the internet affords a poster -- in person, I'm sure the conversation would be much more pleasant and respectful.

However, compared to the majority of other forums I have participated in, the people here are much more respectful.

Cheers!  Kurt


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## TUGBrian (Feb 8, 2012)

moderators do their best, however with a playground full of 50,000+ adults...you are always going to have a few that require a smack to the head more often than not.

its (moderation) certainly a thankless job...and the opinions of those who take on the role always changes once they have walked in the shoes =)

Id also point out that the vast majority of items that cause "contention" are long deleted or moderated before most of you even read it....this place would simply drive the average timeshare owner away if left uncensored.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 8, 2012)

*Repetition Is The Mother Of Learning.*




klpca said:


> Why some feel that it needs to be repeated over and over again is beyond me.


Yeh.

You've heard it over & over.  

I've heard it over & over.  

But it's all fresh & new to the newbies clicking in for the 1st time, & those are the ones who really need to hear it. 

Otherwise, without exposure to _The Wisdom Of TUG_, they're apt to go out & lay out big bux for some full-freight timeshare & throw money down a rathole via PCC hornswoggles & up-front fee bamboozles, & I don't know what-all. 

In short, much of _The Wisdom Of TUG_ bears repeating. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## MichaelColey (Feb 8, 2012)

TUGBrian said:


> moderators do their best, however with a playground full of 50,000+ adults...you are always going to have a few that require a smack to the head more often than not.
> 
> its (moderation) certainly a thankless job...and the opinions of those who take on the role always changes once they have walked in the shoes =)
> 
> Id also point out that the vast majority of items that cause "contention" are long deleted or moderated before most of you even read it....this place would simply drive the average timeshare owner away if left uncensored.


The moderators here do more than just their best.  They do an AWESOME job.  Their interactions with those need a smack to the head are done out of public sight (as it should be) and very few probably even realize it's happening, but the signs are there.  Someone posts something that's obviously inflamatory, off topic, and against the rules, and it quietly disappears.  If someone is repeatedly disruptive, you notice them "not active" for a period of time.  Only if you happen to see it before the moderators get to it and then go back and look later do you have an inkling that anything happened.

Plus, the moderators are a great example to us.  Although attacked and/or disrespected far more often than normal members, they always respond with grace and respect and they have a "moderating" effect, encouraging people to disagree respectfully.

I've been on very few forums that are as civil as this one.  I attribute a lot of that to the average age of the members.  Most of the members here grew up in an age where there was much more respect for others.


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## pjrose (Feb 8, 2012)

TUGBrian said:


> . . .
> *Id also point out that the vast majority of items that cause "contention" are long deleted or moderated before most of you even read it*....this place would simply drive the average timeshare owner away if left uncensored.



I didn't realize that - the mods are surely ever-vigilant!  Do you also use any kind of filtering?  Or would that be a secret....




MichaelColey said:


> *The moderators here do more than just their best.  They do an AWESOME job.*  . . .
> 
> I've been on very few forums that are as civil as this one.  I attribute a lot of that to the average age of the members.  Most of the members here grew up in an age where there was much more respect for others.



Yes, many thumbs up!  And your interpretation makes a lot of sense.


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## DeniseM (Feb 8, 2012)

pjrose said:


> I didn't realize that - the mods are surely ever-vigilant!  Do you also use any kind of filtering?  Or would that be a secret....



PJ - Users can click the red triangle in any post to report a "problem" - as soon as the do, every Mod/Admin gets an email.  That allows us to catch things very quickly.

Although some people abuse the [red] triangle and simply report things they don't agree with, or violations of the posting rules that aren't violations.  If I had $1 for every time someone reported someone else for having "my website" in their signature line, I could retire!


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## pjrose (Feb 8, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> PJ - Users can click the red triangle in any post to report a "problem" - as soon as the do, every Mod/Admin gets an email.  That allows us to catch things very quickly.
> 
> Although some people abuse . . .



Yes, and as you know I do click it occasionally.  I thought Brian (above) meant you caught a lot before the rest of us, but I guess it's whoever is quicker on the draw - er button...

And I hope I don't abuse it.  I've generally added "???" when I'm not sure if it's a problem.


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## geoand (Feb 9, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> PJ - Users can click the red triangle in any post to report a "problem" - as soon as the do, every Mod/Admin gets an email.  That allows us to catch things very quickly.
> 
> Although some people abuse the green triangle and simply report things they don't agree with, or violations of the posting rules that aren't violations.  If I had $1 for every time someone reported someone else for having "my website" in their signature line, I could retire!



This is a purely anonymous post.  I notified Denise that there was a violation on a thread and it turns out that I notified the mods that Denise had violated.  Again, this is a purely anonymous post.


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## pjrose (Feb 9, 2012)

geoand said:


> This is a purely anonymous post.  I notified Denise that there was a violation on a thread and it turns out that I notified the mods that Denise had violated.  Again, this is a purely anonymous post.



I don't understand....are you saying that the clicker of the red triangle remains anonymous?


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## geoand (Feb 10, 2012)

pjrose said:


> I don't understand....are you saying that the clicker of the red triangle remains anonymous?


No.  The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do.  To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.


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## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

geoand said:


> No.  The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do.  To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.



Ohhh. I get it now. Took me a minute. Funny.


----------



## pjrose (Feb 10, 2012)

geoand said:


> No.  The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do.  To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.



But I quoted you.....didn't I?    



Beefnot said:


> Ohhh. I get it now. Took me a minute. Funny.



I don't get it.


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> I certainly understand your frustration.  And if someone calls them out on those posts (even if done nicely), they usually get trounced upon.
> 
> IMO, some opinions outside of the mainstream are not very well received here.  Take, for example, these two "mainstream" ideas:
> 
> ...



Agree with your second bullet, but as for the first, it is a mathematical certainty that purchasing from the developer is financially suboptimal to buying resale. 100% of the time, without fail. I am all for shouting down a person who tries to financially justify mathematical impossibility (either because they actually believe their flawed math, or because they want to stubbornly rationalize a bad purchase). Now if one is advocating a developer purchase for a reason other than financial, well folks can disagree on the importance of financial considerations vs. other factors.


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 10, 2012)

pjrose said:


> But I quoted you.....didn't I?



Well, we don't exactly know who is posting as "geoand."
It could be Barbara Bush, or the poster's evil twin?

But I doubt it's anonymous to the wizards of TUG, who know who we are.


----------



## pedro47 (Feb 10, 2012)

dmharris said:


> I've always been impressed with the helpfulness and cordiality of Tuggers.  But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug.  I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean.  I wish it would stop.  Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
> 
> Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.
> 
> Leaving now before someone throws something at me!



I also enjoyed this web site for the knowledge and information I have rec'd.  You left me out, maybe it's old age. (smile)  Please, I am leaving now and please do not throw anything at an old man.


----------



## Rob&Carol Q (Feb 10, 2012)

Cranky?  Of course...it's February.  Haven't seen the sun since some time last week and we are expecting 2 inches tonight.

Still haven't figured out why we just don't leave this place...then I remember...stupid mortgage...Oh, and a beautiful Granddaughter.

Everything will get better in March, especially once we start seeing preseason baseball stories.


----------



## tombo (Feb 10, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> Yeh.
> 
> You've heard it over & over.
> 
> ...




I agree with Alan. Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. Where to stay in New Orleans, which resort in Orlando is best, is Marriott worth it, is DVC worth it, should you buy in Orlando, Should you buy in Vegas, Branson, etc, etc, etc have all been covered hundreds of times. If a new person asks on of those questions and no one responds we are not being helpful and TUG becomes only valuable to long time members.

When someone says buy retail in a post, that developer XYZ was great, that ROFR keeps prices high, that RCI and/or II were terrible companies, etc, etc, etc if people do not post opposing opinions because it has been covered before then newbies would just assume that the statement is valid with no counter points being presented to let them decide after hearing both sides. For example RCI is not perfect, but it works well for many of us. If we never again posted that we have had good success with our exchange company(s) then everyone logging on to TUG would assume they are worthless because the posts say they are with no one rebutting the assertation. If no one posted that they had bad success with RCI and they prefer the smaller independent exchange companies because that has been covered before then many newbies would never know there are other options. It is old hat to many of us, but  a lot of posters have never heard any of it before. And the great thing about TUG is that in some of the repetitive threads I actually find out about something I have never heard of before. If the thread was closed, deleted, or ignored by TUGGERS I would have missed a lot of information through the years even though the majority of the thread is the same old stuff.

Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO


----------



## ace2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

tombo said:


> I agree with Alan. Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. If someone said buy retail in a post, that developer XYZ was great, that ROFR keeps prices high, that RCI and/or II were terrible companies, etc, etc, etc and people did not post opposing opinions because it has been covered before then newbies would just assume that the statement is valid with no counter points being presented to let them decide after hearing both sides. For example RCI is not perfect, but it works well for many of us. If we never again posted that we have had good success with our exchange company(s) then everyone logging on to TUG would assume they are worthless because the posts say they are with no one rebutting the assertation. Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO


 
Yep, well said.  And nobody complains about the repetition if it goes along with their beliefs.  You only see them complain about repetition on the opposing viewpoints.


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

pjrose said:


> But I quoted you.....didn't I?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get it.



Geoand was being funny by fessing up that s/he was guilty of what DeniseM was referring to. The anonymous thing is whatmade it pretty funny. Of course s/he knew it was not _really_ anonymous. I dont know how to explain other than that. Ok, now youve just made it unfunny. Thanks a lot.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2012)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




tombo said:


> Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG.


You are correct, sir. 

Not only that, fresh challenges to long-held views present opportunities to reconsider & refine the underlying ideas, to the (potential) benefit of all concerned. 

Also, not all the ideas offered over & over have to be stated exactly the same way every time.  Repetition with variation (a principle of musical composition, BTW) helps get ideas across in fresh ways that might not have bridged the communication gap the 1st or 2nd or 3rd time round.  

Next to every TUG-BBS entry is a little space showing how many entries have been sent in by the person who contributed that entry.  What's not shown is how many entries people typed up & got all ready to send in, but then canceled & deleted upon further reflection before reaching the point of no return.  

As time goes on, I become more willing to stifle myself & suffer the discomfort of an unexpressed thought, & by now that unshown number of entries not sent has got have reached triple digits.  (Sometimes I get semi-wistful over not being able to take credit for all the times I canceled misbegotten stuff that I did _not_ send in.)

Even so, there are times when I have been rebuked -- a few times by regular TUG-BBS participants & once or twice by the Grand Pro (or surrogates).  I have tried to take those rebukes to heart by mending my ways. 

My selfish purpose here on TUG-BBS is to have fun -- learn some stuff, share some stuff, crack jokes, enjoy the give & take & the back & forth, to be maybe a little provocative now & then, but never to cause intentional irritation or peeve anybody on purpose just for the sake of causing trouble.  

However that may be, nobody's perfect. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Elan (Feb 10, 2012)

The other thing is that if the repetitive content were removed, there wouldn't be that much to talk about.  I've noticed that a large percentage of the hardcore timeshare enthusiasts here are so because they are into rentals.  Nothing wrong with that, but in terms of just buying and using, the landscape just doesn't change often enough to warrant lots of discussion (I can only read someone whining about their TPU allocation dropping so many times  ).


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2012)

Elan said:


> (I can only read someone whining about their TPU allocation dropping so many times  ).



Exactly why I spend (waste?) most of my TUG time in the lounge. The scenery and subjects change from time to time. And I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.

Jim


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2012)

*Nobody's Perfect.*




Passepartout said:


> I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.


Same goes for plenty of people who _are_ on FaceBook. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## PigsDad (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Agree with your second bullet, but as for the first, it is a mathematical certainty that purchasing from the developer is financially suboptimal to buying resale. *100% of the time, without fail.* I am all for *shouting down a person* who tries to financially justify mathematical impossibility (either because they actually believe their flawed math, or because they want to stubbornly rationalize a bad purchase).


Thank you for making my point so nicely for me.  


> *Now if one is advocating a developer purchase for a reason other than financial, well folks can disagree on the importance of financial considerations vs. other factors.*


So by your own admission, buying resale is *not *"100% of the time, without fail" the best choice for an individual.  That was my point.  But there are those on this board who will argue until they are blue in the face if anyone dares challenge the mantra of "*always *buy resale".  They simply cannot see it from the other persons point of view.

Kurt


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

tombo said:


> Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO



This is refreshing.  I really appreciate the introspection shown on this thread (especially since I started it).  To see some people acknowledge that they're human (we all get angry sometimes) I think is helpful.  I especially appreciate understanding the rationale for anger.  It's interesting about repetitive posts and arguing about timeshares.  I also see hostilities in the lounge.  

In thinking this through, it seems some people get so fixated on their opinion and have no cognitive recognition or empathy for any other opinion that they have to spew words of anger across the screen.  Maybe we all need to occasionally take a breath and be more tolerant that our opinions aren't the only opinions.

Maybe age does bring wisdom. 

Is it time for a group hug??


----------



## Elan (Feb 10, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Exactly why I spend (waste?) most of my TUG time in the lounge. The scenery and subjects change from time to time. And I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.
> 
> Jim



  Me too.  I'm tempted to buy a Marriott.  Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.


----------



## ace2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

Elan said:


> Me too.  I'm tempted to buy a Marriott.  Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.


 
Wow, great idea.  I see some on ebay dirt cheap right now!

Wait a minute... do Mariott timeshares have maint fees?


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

>>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<

Well that is just plain rude and offensive and not in the spirit of being "friendly" here on TUG.

I consider myself pretty smart and you wanna know what?  The MATH does work when you are presented the numbers and assumptions that the TS sales people use.  Many of us (probably a majority) have bought at least one TS direct from a developer at retail price.  My first one was a RTU in 1981.

Today looking back, folks (myself included) can say that was silly . . . "own it" for 20 years and have nothing to show for it afterwards.  But you know what?  I can make the math work after the fact too, proving that my purchase price PLUS MF and the 3 year assessment they got out of the original owners was a fair value for what I got and how I used it.  It may not have been a GREAT value, but the value was more than I had financially invested (paid into) it.

What you seem to have forgotten however, is that resale is an even better value.  Doesn't mean the first method of ownership (buying from the developer) has NO value . . . it's just not as good as a resale purchase.

If people want to defend retail purchasing until they're blue in the face, that is their right.  I don't believe, however, that you have a right to shout them down for it.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2012)

*Hope Springs Eternal.*




dmharris said:


> Maybe age does bring wisdom.


I keep waiting for that. 

No sign of it so far. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Twinkstarr (Feb 10, 2012)

Elan said:


> Me too.  I'm tempted to buy a Marriott.  Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.



:hysterical:


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> >>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<
> 
> Well that is just plain rude and offensive and not in the spirit of being "friendly" here on TUG.
> 
> ...




Okay folks, please listen up (or would that be look carefully at your screen).  This is a thread not to show us how to be cranky (sorry Von) but to discuss why and if people seem more cranky.  Let's move the timeshare topic to another thread because it is obviously inflammatory and that is not the purpose of this thread.  Thank you for all your insightful posts.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

dmharris said:


> Okay folks, please listen up (or would that be look carefully at your screen).  This is a thread not to show us how to be cranky (sorry Von) but to discuss why and if people seem more cranky.  Let's move the timeshare topic to another thread because it is obviously inflammatory and that is not the purpose of this thread.  Thank you for all your insightful posts.



So would it make you happier if I deleted everything after my opening comment 

_Originally Posted by Timeshare Von
>>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<

Well that is just plain rude and offensive and not in the spirit of being "friendly" here on TUG._


----------



## ace2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

Great, so now we have a thread about Tuggers being cranky, which now contains posts with Tuggers being cranky...  what can we do with ourselves? 

This really is turning out to be a very serious problem...  :hysterical:


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Agree with your second bullet, but as for the first, *it is a mathematical certainty that purchasing from the developer is financially suboptimal to buying resale. 100% of the time*, without fail. I am all for shouting down a person who tries to financially justify mathematical impossibility (either because they actually believe their flawed math, or because they want to stubbornly rationalize a bad purchase). Now if one is advocating a developer purchase for a reason other than financial, well folks can disagree on the importance of financial considerations vs. other factors.



You are wrong about the 100% number.  It is sometimes financially optimal to purchase from the developer.  I have done it multiple times.  Let me give you one example that proves it.  It is a strategy I used 5-6 years ago.   It doesn't work anymore.

I would buy 10-20 fixed weeks.  I would make a small developer purchase and they would convert all the fixed weeks to points.  I would sell those converted points for double what I paid.   That is one example where it makes tremendous financial sense to buy from the developer.


----------



## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

Elan said:


> Me too.  I'm tempted to buy a Marriott.  Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.



uh oh, your *not* supposed to venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else unless you buy a Marriott retail ????

Who knew ?????? 

Sorry folks


----------



## BocaBum99 (Feb 10, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> So would it make you happier if I deleted everything after my opening comment
> 
> _Originally Posted by Timeshare Von
> >>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<
> ...



I think you just proved the point of the thread.


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> uh oh, your *not* supposed to venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else unless you buy a Marriott retail ????
> 
> Who knew ??????
> 
> Sorry folks



Hard to find something contentious enough to be interesting in a MROP forum when you buy resale for a buck or so. 

Jim


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

Glad folks caught the irony of my post(s)


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 10, 2012)

I honestly don't know how people can go through life without being cranky once in a while - that's life!  I have much more of a problem with folks who take advantage of the anonymity of online communication by presenting themselves as something they're not - either too brave and cocky or too syrupy sweet.  I want the real thing, and if that means that occasionally there's going to be a heated difference of opinion on TUG, well, we're adults, we should be able to eventually get through those and reach an agreement to disagree.

As someone who's had to suck it up and take the mods' "gentle admonitions" because I shot off my big mouth  , well, I'm still generally pretty happy with the TUG rules.  I like this place, and if they say I need to reign it in once in a while in order to stay, then I guess I'll have to listen to them.  But quite honestly, I think that "if you don't like it, ignore it," doesn't go nearly far enough to keep this place rolling along smoothly.  I can only be called a "kool-aid drinker" so many times before it's going to tick me off enough to respond.  It'd be nice if when the mods see that sort of thing, they'd take care of it then instead of letting it sit.  Or, even worse, agreeing with the sentiment while not actually repeating the words.

As far as the Marriott board?  Come on in!  The more the merrier!  And you don't have to own one beforehand - but we'll be happy to teach you all about why you should go out and buy one.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Feb 10, 2012)

I was called out as fear-mongering for visitors to FL because I pointed out that hurricane season peak is september.  Go figure. I live in Coastal Texas, he have hurricanes too.


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## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> You are wrong about the 100% number.  It is sometimes financially optimal to purchase from the developer.  I have done it multiple times.  Let me give you one example that proves it.  It is a strategy I used 5-6 years ago.   It doesn't work anymore.
> 
> I would buy 10-20 fixed weeks.  I would make a small developer purchase and they would convert all the fixed weeks to points.  I would sell those converted points for double what I paid.   That is one example where it makes tremendous financial sense to buy from the developer.



I stand corrected.  I should probably add "for personal use".


----------



## Karen G (Feb 10, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I can only be called a "kool-aid drinker" so many times before it's going to tick me off enough to respond.  It'd be nice if when the mods see that sort of thing, they'd take care of it then instead of letting it sit.  Or, even worse, agreeing with the sentiment while not actually repeating the words.


Speaking as a volunteer moderator, I actually do have a life beyond TUG. I'm not sitting at my computer reading every forum 24-7, ready to pounce on any violation I may notice. But everyone is free to report any post that is a problem and every moderator is notified by email of that report. Then whoever is available at the time can take a look it.

Moderators do have the right to agree or disagree with any sentiment that is posted, even ones that might be the opposite of yours.  If a post is reported as being a problem and no action is taken, it could be that the moderators didn't feel it violated TUG rules.


----------



## ace2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

Karen G said:


> Speaking as a volunteer moderator, I actually do have a life beyond TUG. I'm not sitting at my computer reading every forum 24-7, ready to pounce on any violation I may notice.


 
As long as you're not getting paid, I'm probably ok with you taking some time off now and then.


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Karen G said:


> Speaking as a volunteer moderator, I actually do have a life beyond TUG. I'm not sitting at my computer reading every forum 24-7, ready to pounce on any violation I may notice. But everyone is free to report any post that is a problem and every moderator is notified by email of that report. Then whoever is available at the time can take a look it.
> 
> Moderators do have the right to agree or disagree with any sentiment that is posted, even ones that might be the opposite of yours.  If a post is reported as being a problem and no action is taken, it could be that the moderators didn't feel it violated TUG rules.



Honestly, I don't expect the mods to be all-seeing and all-knowing supergods, and I'm sorry if that's how my post came across.  And I certainly don't expect that everyone should be in agreement with me - where did that come from?

I'd just like to see blatant insults like "kool-aid drinker" or "sucker" disappear from posts when it's obvious that a mod has seen them, because it seems to me that those are rather nasty things to say about someone else regardless of the discussion.  That's all I was trying to say.


----------



## antjmar (Feb 10, 2012)

dmharris said:


> But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug.  I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean.
> 
> Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.




I noticed the same thing too on the Wyndham forum. Must be the *lack or sleep or sex * like you said!


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

BocaBum99 said:


> It doesn't work anymore.



I'd missed that.


----------



## Karen G (Feb 10, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> It'd be nice if when the mods see that sort of thing, they'd take care of it then instead of letting it sit.  Or, even worse, agreeing with the sentiment while not actually repeating the words.





SueDonJ said:


> And I certainly don't expect that everyone should be in agreement with me - where did that come from?


 It came from the quote above.


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> Thank you for making my point so nicely for me.
> 
> So by your own admission, buying resale is *not *"100% of the time, without fail" the best choice for an individual.  That was my point.  But there are those on this board who will argue until they are blue in the face if anyone dares challenge the mantra of "*always *buy resale".  They simply cannot see it from the other persons point of view.
> 
> Kurt



How did I make the point for you.  Reread my post.  If you are making a false financial rationale, you deserved to be called to the carpet on it.  If someone wants to have a rationale other than financial, I personally think that is dumb, but that's also because I don't have dollars falling out of my pockets.  As long as false statements or fuzzy math aren't being used, then it's a healthy debate.  That's where people can disagree.  But there is no debate of facts.


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> How did I make the point for you.  Reread my post.  If you are making a false financial rationale, you deserved to be called to the carpet on it.  If someone wants to have a rationale other than financial, I personally think that is dumb, but that's also because I don't have dollars falling out of my pockets.  As long as false statements or fuzzy math aren't being used, then it's a healthy debate.  That's where people can disagree.  But there is no debate of facts.



NOW you have me LOL!  :hysterical:


----------



## SueDonJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Karen G said:


> It came from the quote above.



Say the discussion is the age-old resale v. developer.  Some people post why resale is what worked for them, some post why developer worked.  No problem, neither is right or wrong blahblahblah.  But if the difference of opinion is stepped up to the level where one poster is calling another a "kool-aid drinker," regardless of which position is being supported, that's a problem that a mod who is participating in the discussion should take care of.  IMO.  Whether or not the mod is "on the same side" of the discussion as the person who posted the insult doesn't matter, but it does matter if the mod agrees that "kool-aid drinker" is an appropriate characterization of anyone participating in the thread.


----------



## heathpack (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I stand corrected.  I should probably add "for personal use".



Have never bought from a developer, but I will say that it is definately the case that for some purchases you are probably better off buying straight from the developer.

A good example would be a 25 point add-on contract to one of the DVC resorts I own, HHI.  In DVC, you need to add-on within your use year and you could spend a good bit of time searching for a 25 point contract HHI in your UY- some UY for some resorts are rare.  You could buy this direct from Disney, get the exact number of points you desire and they will give you whatever UY you need.  The premium for buying from DVC directly is about $20/pt.  $20/pt x 25 points is $500.  If I figure I will use this contract for 20 years before I dispose of it, the difference in cost comes out to $25/yr.  Hardly enough of a difference to make the resale purchase a no-brainer.  If you are a busy person, you could easily argue that searching for what you want as a resale purchase is a false economy.

Obviously resale is financially way better in most instances.  But DVC and Hyatt are the only systems I am knowledgable about and there are certainly some very specific circumstances in both systems when the developer purchase makes more sense for some people/circumstances.

It is not always the correct thing to "shout someone else down."  Sometimes you may be shouting out an educated and well-thought out argument.

H


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## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Say the discussion is the age-old resale v. developer.  Some people post why resale is what worked for them, some post why developer worked.  No problem, neither is right or wrong blahblahblah.  But if the difference of opinion is stepped up to the level where one poster is calling another a "kool-aid drinker," regardless of which position is being supported, that's a problem that a mod who is participating in the discussion should take care of.  IMO.  Whether or not the mod is "on the same side" of the discussion as the person who posted the insult doesn't matter, but it does matter if the mod agrees that "kool-aid drinker" is an appropriate characterization of anyone participating in the thread.



I think calling someone a "kool-aid drinker" is a shortcut to saying you think they "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking".

I believe it comes from the Jonestown massacre - perhaps you object just to that connection - it was horrific.

If I said I think* you* "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking" would you think I was being _more cranky_ towards you or would that be acceptable?


----------



## tombo (Feb 10, 2012)

You gotta love it!!!! A thread on being nice has spun off several debates. I personally have not seen a post that was rude or unacceptable on this thread. Others will say that a couple of things have crossed the line of civility. Through it all the mods have rightfully let the discussions continue.

I used to post a lot on the Marriott thread because I was interested in buying a couple of weeks. The ROFR debate raged often and I expressed my opinion that it didn't prop up prices. Many disagreed vehemently and the mods began to close or remove any ROFR discussions. I felt that was wrong and a disservice to any newbies who came to TUG inquiring about the merits of ROFR.  I finally purchased a Marriott week.  Not long after I purchased they launched points. I hated points and was mad that you couldn't sell points resale if you converted. Many disagreed. It was a heated discussion back then (and possibly now). The points discussion should not be closed any more than the ROFR discussion should be IMO. 

I have since sold my Marriott week not wanting any part of points you can't resell, so I no longer participate on that forum (and have not for a while). If a year from now I post on the forum to ask if Marriott is ROFR'ing, how the points are working out, if you can reselll them and mods have decided to allow no more discussions on those subjects I would be without an avenue to make informed future purchase decisions. The fact that something has been discussed repeatedly does not mean that everyone logging onto TUG has been a participant and to them it is not rehashing, it is new or updated  information

If one does not like the direction this thread or any other heads, quit reading and quit posting on that thread. It is unfair to others to expect a thread to be shut or posts be removed when someone or a mod does not like the subject of the posts or the demeanor of some/most of the posters. Once again JMHO.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> I think calling someone a "kool-aid drinker" is a shortcut to saying you think they "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking".
> 
> I believe it comes from the Jonestown massacre - perhaps you object just to that connection - it was horrific.



Maybe that's it.  I do think "kool-aid drinker" is a pretty offensive term all by itself, and when it's leveled against someone in a discussion then it's pretty much a complete dismissal of that person's thoughts.  It's like saying to the person, "you think that way because somebody told you it's the right way to think, and you're not capable of forming your own thoughts or opinions.  If you were, you couldn't possibly think the way you do because my way is the only way."



ampaholic said:


> If I said I think* you* "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking" would you think I was being _more cranky_ towards you or would that be acceptable?



Depends on how our discussion was going at the time you say it - if you say it before I've explained myself and then give me a chance to do that, then I'd be at least happy that you're giving me a chance.  But if I've taken the time to explain myself and you say that instead of saying why you disagree with me, then I'd read the "kool-aid drinker" insult into what you've said, and I'd be frustrated.


----------



## heathpack (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> I think calling someone a "kool-aid drinker" is a shortcut to saying you think they "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking".



Yes it is a shortcut.  It typically takes longer to figure out how you are going to say something so as to not alienate the person with whom you are discoursing.  But when we interact with people face-to-face, we typically take the time to do so because we recognize the utility of maintaining good relations with the other party.  

I think the point of this thread if we all should maybe consider trying to avoid such short cuts.  Have a discussion, disagree, but don't label someone else with a derogatory epithet, don't try to shove your opinion down someone else's throat, consider the consequences of what you write and think for a minute if there is perhaps a better way to state your case.  Its all very basic, the kind of stuff we learned in kindergarten.


H


----------



## TUGBrian (Feb 10, 2012)

a key point was recently touched on....what people find "offensive" varies WIDELY among a group this large and active.

quite frankly if a poll was generated for every thread on TUG that asked if there was anyone offended by the post (and if so the post would be closed)...id gander at least 80% or more of the posts on TUG would be closed....as youll always find at least one person offended by something.


----------



## geoand (Feb 10, 2012)

pjrose said:


> But I quoted you.....didn't I?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get it.



You did?????? Here I was thinking I had posted anonymously (not).

Ok, here is the truth.  Because I sometimes don't think as fast as my fingers type, I actually reported that Denise had violated the rules when my intention was to alert Denise to a rules violation.  My lesson from that is let others do the reporting.

Pj, I was just funning with you.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

TUGBrian said:


> a key point was recently touched on....what people find "offensive" varies WIDELY among a group this large and active.
> 
> quite frankly if a poll was generated for every thread on TUG that asked if there was anyone offended by the post (and if so the post would be closed)...id gander at least 80% or more of the posts on TUG would be closed....as youll always find at least one person offended by something.



+1 for Brian!

It is interesting to me what someone will call out on TUG publicly and what is allowed to slide by, by that very same person.

Not be be cranky about it, but it seems to continue to defend being rude to someone seems to just be wrong.

It's probably time for me to leave this thread before I really show my cranky side.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 10, 2012)

FWIW - "Kool-aid drinker" originated with the mass suicide/murder among the followers of Jim Jones at Peoples Temple in Guyana.  Everyone was given cups of kool-aid to drink; the kool-aid had been spiked with poison.  People drank the cups without questioning because they were accustomed to doing whatever it was Jim Jones said to do without thinking about why.

After that incident, "to drink the kool-aid" (usually in the past tense as an adjective phrase) passed into jargon to connote becoming a "true believer" in something or someone, and simply acting on auto-pilot.

After "drank the kool-aid" stuck as an adjectival phrase, "kool-aid drinker" as a noun form was a logical extension.


----------



## pjrose (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Geoand was being funny by fessing up that s/he was guilty of what DeniseM was referring to. The anonymous thing is whatmade it pretty funny. Of course s/he knew it was not _really_ anonymous. I dont know how to explain other than that. *Ok, now youve just made it unfunny. Thanks a lot.*



     




geoand said:


> You did?????? Here I was thinking I had posted anonymously (not).
> 
> Ok, here is the truth.  Because I sometimes don't think as fast as my fingers type, I actually reported that Denise had violated the rules when my intention was to alert Denise to a rules violation.  My lesson from that is let others do the reporting.
> 
> *Pj, I was just funning with you.*



That much I got   

I'm not getting cranky - at least I don't think I am - but I do seem to be losing brain cells lately


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> +1 for Brian!
> 
> It is interesting to me what someone will call out on TUG publicly and what is allowed to slide by, by that very same person.
> 
> ...



I also like Brian's post. Important point brought to light.

What is considered offensive is subjective.

Your posts, also, Von, get me thinking (and I have never known you to be rude nor cranky!) ...

Is rudeness also subjective?  Or do we still consider Emily Post the authority??  Times have changed, what is the standard?  

I think a person's definition of, and sensitivity to, rudeness will vary in the same manner as their "offensiveness barometer".


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

heathpack said:


> Yes it is a shortcut.  It typically takes longer to figure out how you are going to say something so as to not alienate the person with whom you are discoursing.  But when we interact with people face-to-face, we typically take the time to do so because we recognize the utility of maintaining good relations with the other party.
> 
> I think the point of this thread if we all should maybe consider trying to avoid such short cuts.  Have a discussion, disagree, but don't label someone else with a derogatory epithet, don't try to shove your opinion down someone else's throat, consider the consequences of what you write and think for a minute if there is perhaps a better way to state your case.  Its all very basic, the kind of stuff we learned in kindergarten.
> 
> ...



I suppose I generally agree with your point.  However, even in person, when one has laid out a well-reasoned argument, and the response clearly underscores that the person has shut-off their left brain (cf.this...contains vulgar language), then labels may be in order.  

Some responses I read are akin to "just because you have articulated in detail how one plus one equals two, and that a-squared plus b-squared equals c-squared, doesn't mean that it works for me!"  I'm sorry, but there are times when a person has demonstrated themselves to be a garden-variety idiot.  As a matter of civil discourse, perhaps we should refrain from calling names (I repeat perhaps), but just understand that does not change the reality that that person is an idjut.


----------



## TUGBrian (Feb 10, 2012)

just to elaborate on the current "name" being used as an example.

I personally wouldnt get offended by the "kool-aid drinker" comment, as I honestly dont see someone using that term literally to describe me (or someone else) in a cult going to commit suicide blindly etc etc,  but instead its just become a cultural term to describe someone who has a fixed point of view (that clearly differs from yours).

is it being rude?  i guess it comes down to context in that regard...however I personally dont see myself closing a thread just because someone used that term alone.  That said, there are also certainly some posts made that the CONTENT of the actual post is perfectly within the rules (ie none of the words used violate any of the posting guidelines)...however its clear in the post that the person is being snotty/childish/rude/obnoxious/etc...

when it comes to deleting or moderating threads and posts, its rarely ever a simple case of black and white or right and wrong....and no matter what decision is made by myself, or the moderators/admins....its going to annoy someone.


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I suppose I generally agree with your point.  However, even in person, when one has laid out a well-reasoned argument, and the response clearly underscores that the person has shut-off their left brain (cf.this...contains vulgar language), then labels may be in order.
> 
> Some responses I read are akin to "just because you have articulated in detail how one plus one equals two, and that a-squared plus b-squared equals c-squared, doesn't mean that it works for me!"  I'm sorry, but there are times when a person has demonstrated themselves to be a garden-variety idiot.  As a matter of civil discourse, perhaps we should refrain from calling names (I repeat perhaps), but just understand that does not change the reality that that person is an idjut.



Labels may be in order?

Demonstrated themselves to be a garden-variety idiot?

PERHAPS we should refrain from calling names?

Doesn't change the reality that that person is an idjut?

Wow, see, I think our barometers are tuned waaaaaay differently.


----------



## Egret1986 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Thank you for the enlightenment.*



ampaholic said:


> I think calling someone a "kool-aid drinker" is a shortcut to saying you think they "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking".
> 
> I believe it comes from the Jonestown massacre - perhaps you object just to that connection - it was horrific.
> 
> If I said I think* you* "fall in line with a certain way of thinking without analyzing the full content of that way of thinking" would you think I was being _more cranky_ towards you or would that be acceptable?





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> FWIW - "Kool-aid drinker" originated with the mass suicide/murder among the followers of Jim Jones at Peoples Temple in Guyana.  Everyone was given cups of kool-aid to drink; the kool-aid had been spiked with poison.  People drank the cups without questioning because they were accustomed to doing whatever it was Jim Jones said to do without thinking about why.
> 
> After that incident, "to drink the kool-aid" (usually in the past tense as an adjective phrase) passed into jargon to connote becoming a "true believer" in something or someone, and simply acting on auto-pilot.
> 
> After "drank the kool-aid" stuck as an adjectival phrase, "kool-aid drinker" as a noun form was a logical extension.





TUGBrian said:


> just to elaborate on the current "name" being used as an example.
> 
> I personally wouldnt get offended by the "kool-aid drinker" comment, as I honestly dont see someone using that term literally to describe me (or someone else) in a cult going to commit suicide blindly etc etc,  but instead its just become a cultural term to describe someone who has a fixed point of view (that clearly differs from yours).
> 
> ...



I didn't understand the "kool-aid drinker" thing.  Of course I knew about Jim Jones, the kool-aid and the massacre, but I hadn't heard that term before to describe someone.  I really didn't see the big deal.  While I no longer am a fan of kool-aid personally, I was scratching my head on that one.

It's not nice to call folks names because they don't agree with your opinion and it would have offended me also to be called a name, but I think if you participate on forums that you have to be prepared for these kinds of things and just "dust" yourself off and move forward.  Thank you, Brian and all the Moderators, that do a terrific job on trying to keep things moving forward.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

geekette said:


> Labels may be in order?
> 
> Demonstrated themselves to be a garden-variety idiot?
> 
> ...



Let's add to the list . . .

_Shouting down a person

Called on the carpet
_

I guess rude people just make me cranky and I'm not going to try to hide it.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Feb 10, 2012)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




geekette said:


> Doesn't change the reality that that person is an idjut?


If somebody calls me a doofus, there are only 2 possibilities. 

(1) I _am_ a doofus.  In that case, the best I can do is keep quiet lest I draw more attention to myself & my doofusness. 

(2) I am _not_ a doofus.  In that case, it would be a mistake to make people think that I am 1 by denying it. 

Either way, my best response to being called doofus is no response. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

geekette said:


> Your posts, also, Von, get me thinking (and I have never known you to be rude nor cranky!) ...



Thanks.

As I said, I try to curtail it but I do know I have a tendency for a sharp tongue even in person . . . so with the written/online word, I try to be nice.

Then again, there is this from motivational speaker Larry Winget.


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

geekette said:


> Labels may be in order?
> 
> Demonstrated themselves to be a garden-variety idiot?
> 
> ...



If you are suggesting that you have never thought someone to be an idiot or some other 'label', then I would say you are a liar.  Oops, another label!  

I'm being tongue in cheek, but the point I was making is that there are actually things people say that would actually have us believe (and rightfully so) that they are <insert label here>.  Whether we verbalize it, and how, is the debate.  Unless you are now the thought police.  Is that a label?

So, I would go so far as to add a few more "a"s to describe how different our barometers are.


----------



## Makai Guy (Feb 10, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> ... lest I draw more attention to myself & my doofusness.



I believe the word is "dooficity".


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, beef, I don't really know ya, so thank you for clarifying your tongue-in-cheek posts because I didn't take them that way.  Often a    or   goes a long way towards making sure you are understood in the way you are attempting to be read.

Please be very sure that I do not consider myself the thought police.  far from it.   There are many things that I think but do not post.

As you pointed out, this thread is about what is posted.  One is encouraged to think as they may, but others are discouraged from labelling them in inflammatory ways.

Just part of playing nice.


----------



## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

Makai Guy said:


> I believe the word is "dooficity".



Hey, thanks for that I was thinking it was "doofiosity" - like grandiosity (only in reverse).  



geekette said:


> ... Just part of playing nice.



In debate (high school) the teaching was: If you can't express your thoughts without even the need to mention the other side (person, concept or idea) you get an "F".

If you just concentrate on what *you* want to express you could rightly expect perhaps a "C or even B" and if you express yourself *well* expect an "A".

Oh and it didn't matter which side you were assigned in the debate.


----------



## Makai Guy (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Hey, thanks for that I was thinking it was "doofiosity" - like grandiosity (only in reverse).


"Dooficiousness", maybe?


----------



## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

Makai Guy said:


> "Dooficiousness", maybe?



Yea, that's a possible - but could you use it in a sentence?

I vote for "doofplicity" defined as being doofy in two directions - sort of as an adjunct of "duplicity".


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Yea, that's a possible - but could you use it in a sentence?
> 
> I vote for "doofplicity" defined as being doofy in two directions - sort of as an adjunct of "duplicity".



You mean "dooficience", the state of being an abject doofus.  The _act_ of being an abject doofus is called "dooficient".


----------



## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> You mean "dooficience", the state of being an abject doofus.  The _act_ of being an abject doofus is called "dooficient".



No, I meant *exactly* what I said. 

(too cranky?)


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

what's with all the doofality around here all of a sudden???


----------



## PigsDad (Feb 10, 2012)

AwayWeGo said:


> If somebody calls me a doofus...


If you are a doofus, and I am a doofus, does that make us a pair of doofi?   

Kurt


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Yea, that's a possible - but could you use it in a sentence?
> 
> I vote for "doofplicity" defined as being doofy in two directions - sort of as an adjunct of "duplicity".



No, that's clearly bidoofal.  also known as ambidooferous.

 

duplicity to me implies a desire to mislead.  dual purposes.  one for us, one for me.


----------



## geekette (Feb 10, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> If you are a doofus, and I am a doofus, does that make us a pair of doofi?
> 
> Kurt



wow, yeah, doofi!!!

 

lettin' my inner doofus out...  :whoopie: 

 

feeling extra emotical tonight...


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

There must be a full moon out; can't tell because it's dark, in that there are many, many clouds above my head (oh so many, in many ways!).  

Or is it just because it's TGIF and you folks are getting silly?  Silly is way better than cranky!

Hugs all around!  <3


----------



## ampaholic (Feb 10, 2012)

Hijack a thread ... check 

One less thing on my bucket list.


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Hijack a thread ... check
> 
> One less thing on my bucket list.



Oh you are Bad . . . Bad, Bad, Bad!!   

I would love to see what it would be like to have Tuggers like those posting here in a room together.  Oh MY!  Would anyone listen to one another?  It definitely would have to be in a bar!!  I would need a drink, I'm sure.  :hysterical:


----------



## Karen G (Feb 10, 2012)

dmharris said:


> I would love to see what it would be like to have Tuggers like those posting here in a room together.  Oh MY!  Would anyone listen to one another?  It definitely would have to be in a bar!!  I would need a drink, I'm sure.  :hysterical:


That sounds like a lot of fun actually. I think we should have a TUG convention right here in Las Vegas.  Maybe we could arrange tours of the Marriott and HGVC resorts and discuss the merits of each one right on the spot. We could tour the former Westgate tower. Maybe we could get some timeshare salesmen to present seminars. Just think of all the possibilities!


----------



## heathpack (Feb 10, 2012)

Karen G said:


> That sounds like a lot of fun actually. I think we should have a TUG convention right here in Las Vegas.  Maybe we could arrange tours of the Marriott and HGVC resorts and discuss the merits of each one right on the spot. We could tour the former Westgate tower. Maybe we could get some timeshare salesmen to present seminars. Just think of all the possibilities!



I'm in.  We could also have the Biggest Loser weigh in, a mini pie making contest and introduce the XYZ secret handshake.

H


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

Correction.



heathpack said:


> I'm in.  We could also have the Biggest Loser weigh in, a mini pie making contest and introduce the XYZ secret handshake.
> 
> H


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 10, 2012)

Oh, and add a "Who Got the Best Developer Deal" contest.


----------



## amycurl (Feb 10, 2012)

Karen G said:


> That sounds like a lot of fun actually. I think we should have a TUG convention right here in Las Vegas.  Maybe we could arrange tours of the Marriott and HGVC resorts and discuss the merits of each one right on the spot. We could tour the former Westgate tower. Maybe we could get some timeshare salesmen to present seminars. Just think of all the possibilities!



Having done something similar with other online communities I'm part of (almost twenty people in Chicago,) it really can be quite something.

There's always that initial weirdness at first when you try to integrate the person you "know" online with the stranger standing in front you. In most cases, it goes away quickly.


----------



## Fern Modena (Feb 10, 2012)

We did have a TUG get together back in 2003 in Vegas, but it was purely social.  And if I mention the names of those who attended, most of you won't know them...TUG has changed that much.  

Besides family, there were Bruce and Patricia Bailey and her brother Derek and SIL Rose, Kathy and Kurt Pitch, Sing Li, Shelley Preece and her hubby (sorry, I can see him, can't remember name), Blaine and Pat Smith, Cheryl and her h (she's still here, username Whirl, has twins now, and I think more), Kathy Q and a friend, Leslie Michael (username Shaggy, still here), Kay Hennessey (username Kay H still here) and that's about all I remember.  I live in Sun City, ya know 

Jerry and I celebrated our 25th anniversary with a renewal of vows, and we had a big BBQ at the old Ramada/Leisure Suites/Now Who Knows that went on into the night.

We also fell in love with the housing area where we now live.

So, Karen, your turn.  You organize something, I'll come.  

Fern



Karen G said:


> That sounds like a lot of fun actually. I think we should have a TUG convention right here in Las Vegas.  Maybe we could arrange tours of the Marriott and HGVC resorts and discuss the merits of each one right on the spot. We could tour the former Westgate tower. Maybe we could get some timeshare salesmen to present seminars. Just think of all the possibilities!


----------



## Karen G (Feb 10, 2012)

Fern Modena said:


> So, Karen, your turn.  You organize something, I'll come.
> 
> Fern


I think it would be fun. I know we've gotten together with some Tuggers for lunch at Toby Keith's I Love This Bar & Grill and another group at South Point. It's always fun to meet Tuggers in person.

Something just purely social would be easier to organize, but if TUG Brian wanted to get involved and make it an official TUG gathering that would be cool, too.


----------



## Ridewithme38 (Feb 10, 2012)

OH! Can i go? it could be fun hearing all the story of all your lives! The day the first printing press was produced, the settlement of the US, the day they discovered the earth was round, heck it would just be interesting to hear which one of you discovered Fire and the wheel!


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

heathpack said:


> I'm in.  We could also have the Biggest Loser weigh in, a mini pie making contest and introduce the XYZ secret handshake.
> 
> H




This is GREAT!!  Other awards: The person who owns the most weeks sold by a developer, sold at resale, etc. Heath you make me laugh!


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## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> OH! Can i go? it could be fun hearing all the story of all your lives! The day the first printing press was produced, the settlement of the US, the day they discovered the earth was round, heck it would just be interesting to hear which one of you discovered Fire and the wheel!



Hey Young One!  Don't make fun!  We lived through some of the most exciting times in, well, Time!


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2012)

Would Boiled Pizza be on the menu?


----------



## dmharris (Feb 10, 2012)

yes, and deep fried baloney!


----------



## DeniseM (Feb 10, 2012)

geoand said:


> You did?????? Here I was thinking I had posted anonymously (not).
> 
> Ok, here is the truth.  Because I sometimes don't think as fast as my fingers type, I actually reported that Denise had violated the rules when my intention was to alert Denise to a rules violation.  My lesson from that is let others do the reporting.
> 
> Pj, I was just funning with you.



I do love it when people report Moderators.    They usually mean to notify the Mod, or report another post in the same thread, but sometimes they are actually reporting the Moderator.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Feb 10, 2012)

We are only 800 miles or so from Henderson, so we would come.  As long as we aren't on Maui, Kauai, Oahu, or at Disneyland or Disneyworld.  

Those are our only trips in the next six months or so.  :rofl:


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 10, 2012)

dmharris said:


> yes, and deep fried baloney!



Seltzer's Lebanon bologna I hope!


----------



## amycurl (Feb 10, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> Seltzer's Lebanon bologna I hope!



Make that their sweet Lebanon bologna and you've got a deal! 

Living down here in the Land of Pork, I can sometimes find scrapple and Lebanon bologna, but I can never, ever find the sweet kind. 

Which reminds to ask my mother to pick some up on her way through PA (she still gets her taxes done there, even though she now lives in ME) next week before coming here....


----------



## pjrose (Feb 10, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> OH! Can i go? it could be fun hearing all the story of all your lives! The day the first printing press was produced, the settlement of the US, the day they discovered the earth was round, heck it would just be interesting to hear which one of you discovered Fire and the wheel!



Sure, I know I would love imparting some of our wisdom to you - or at least trying to :hysterical: :hysterical:


----------



## pjrose (Feb 10, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> I do love it when people report Moderators.    They usually mean to notify the Mod, or report another post in the same thread, but sometimes they are actually reporting the Moderator.



Many years ago in middle school DS was a volunteer admin for an online site; there was a button that said "report admin" which we both interpreted as "report TO admin".  He clicked a bunch of offensive threads and reported them, but in so doing he was actually reporting himself....and was kicked off the site for having been reported.  They ignored his email to be reinstated.  

It was poorly designed, that's for sure.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 10, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We are only 800 miles or so from Henderson, so we would come.  As long as we aren't on Maui, Kauai, Oahu, or at Disneyland or Disneyworld.
> 
> Those are our only trips in the next six months or so.  :rofl:


That's just about exactly the right distance for _"Chicken a la Car"_. Goes well with B'iled Pizza.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Feb 11, 2012)

amycurl said:


> Make that their sweet Lebanon bologna and you've got a deal!
> 
> Living down here in the Land of Pork, I can sometimes find scrapple and Lebanon bologna, but I can never, ever find the sweet kind.
> 
> Which reminds to ask my mother to pick some up on her way through PA (she still gets her taxes done there, even though she now lives in ME) next week before coming here....



Living in VA and bowling the the Dutchman Classic Tournament in Palmyra, winning a bologna was always a highlight!  Of course, the store bought was good too but never seemed to be as sweet as one given away as a prize!

There used to be a deli here in Wisconsin that sold it by the pound sliced, but no more


----------



## pjrose (Feb 11, 2012)

I'll bring the baloney (or bologna) from Lebanon, just down the road from us.  They drop a big bologna on New Year's Eve!

And would that boiled bizza be mini?   I'm not sure the mini-pie makers can boil things.....


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## PigsDad (Feb 11, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We are only 800 miles or so from Henderson, so we would come.


Since we live in relative close proximity, I'll car pool with you.  ROAD TRIP!!!  

Kurt


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 11, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> Since we live in relative close proximity, I'll car pool with you.  ROAD TRIP!!!
> 
> Kurt



Sounds fun!  Haven't been to Vegas intentionally for many years.  Ate dinner once on the way to California. I think it was 12 years ago.


----------



## geekette (Feb 11, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Many years ago in middle school DS was a volunteer admin for an online site; there was a button that said "report admin" which we both interpreted as "report TO admin".  He clicked a bunch of offensive threads and reported them, but in so doing he was actually reporting himself....and was kicked off the site for having been reported.  They ignored his email to be reinstated.
> 
> It was poorly designed, that's for sure.



I personally love technology the most when the Law of Unintended Consequences shows up.    

except when I'm at work, then it just plain stinks  and I get cranky   

until I go to Vegas.   

I was working from home sick yesterday  :zzz:    but managed to control the consequences when I made a major blunder   

I owned right up to it       and it turned out to not be that big of a deal     easy recovery  

and then the thing that I've been battling the consequences on since before Christmas     finally is working       and worked the fastest it has ever worked    

but I don't know why   

So I'm not cranky but I may have been  and now, the prospect of meeting y'all in Vegas is mighty appealling


----------



## Beefnot (Feb 11, 2012)

You are a very emotive individual...


----------



## Talent312 (Feb 11, 2012)

There are a few posters who, if I saw them in a room (and knew who they were), I might turn around and walk out.
:annoyed:
Besides, I'd rather keep my true identy as Barbara Bush a secret.


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## geekette (Feb 11, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> You are a very emotive individual...



and that observation is not offensive to me in the least!

actually, I rarely use the emoticons so this has been out of character for me.  I think I was experiencing an emoticonical episode.  Those usually leave me dooficient, also.


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## Beefnot (Feb 11, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> There are a few posters who, if I saw them in a room (*and knew who they were*), I might turn around and walk out.
> :annoyed:
> Besides, I'd rather keep my true identy as Barbara Bush a secret.



Even if you did know who they were, no need to flee. Me and the other outcasts would be ostracized anyway, tucked away congregating in a corner by ourselves.


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## PigsDad (Feb 11, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> Besides, I'd rather keep my true identy as Barbara Bush a secret.


Hi, I'm John.  John Cocktosen.  Pleasure to meet you.


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## Htoo0 (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm Dave.  Dave Doofus. What's this meeting about and why wasn't I invited?


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## ampaholic (Feb 11, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> There are a few posters who, if I saw them in a room (and knew who they were), I might turn around and walk out.
> :annoyed:
> Besides, I'd rather keep my true identy as Barbara Bush a secret.



Whatever you say John ...


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## Karen G (Feb 11, 2012)

*Suggestion for TUG get-together in Las Vegas*

Okay, Tuggers. Here's a suggestion for a get-together in Las Vegas. I am proposing the weekend of April 21 because there's a concert in town that you might like.  I just got our tickets for  The Eagles and they'll be at the MGM Grand. There are so many timeshares to pick from in Las Vegas plus all the great hotels and the weather should be fantastic.  

If there are enough people interested in coming, maybe I could set up a page on Facebook where we could all communicate about the event and any plans that might develop.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 11, 2012)

Karen, we may be in!  I do have a Disney Villas at Wilderness Lodge 2 bedroom for that exact date, 4/21 and would have to see about cancelling it with RCI.  

Rick doesn't want to go to Orlando then, anyway.  It's been a bone of contention here for a while, but only because he doesn't want to trade enough days at the firehouse to get a second week.  We usually travel to Orlando two weeks at a time.  It's expensive to fly to MCO from Denver.


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## heathpack (Feb 11, 2012)

Aw, we leave for Cabo that day.

H


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## Karen G (Feb 11, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Karen, we may be in! .


That would be cool!



heathpack said:


> Aw, we leave for Cabo that day.
> 
> H


Bummer!


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 11, 2012)

Karen G said:


> Okay, Tuggers. Here's a suggestion for a get-together in Las Vegas. I am proposing the weekend of April 21 because there's a concert in town that you might like.  I just got our tickets for  The Eagles and they'll be at the MGM Grand. There are so many timeshares to pick from in Las Vegas plus all the great hotels and the weather should be fantastic.
> 
> If there are enough people interested in coming, maybe I could set up a page on Facebook where we could all communicate about the event and any plans that might develop.



Sounds like fun, especially since we're thinking about trying to get to Vegas sometime this spring.  Unfortunately, that is our arrival day in Ireland.

Enjoy - it should be a nice time for all (except those being avoided in the halls).


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## Karen G (Feb 11, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> Unfortunately, that is our arrival day in Ireland.
> 
> Enjoy - it should be a nice time for all (except those being avoided in the halls).


Bummer! Have a great trip, though!

I've started a separate thread here in the Lounge for anyone who might be able to make it April 21.


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## amycurl (Feb 11, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> Living in VA and bowling the the Dutchman Classic Tournament in Palmyra, winning a bologna was always a highlight!  Of course, the store bought was good too but never seemed to be as sweet as one given away as a prize!
> 
> There used to be a deli here in Wisconsin that sold it by the pound sliced, but no more



Yes, the stuff from even the local grocery stores are not as good as what we would buy from the local farmer's markets....*sigh*  (My mom promised to try and stop by a grocery store and pick some up on her way down; they won't be coming through PA on a market day...bummer.)

And the April date is a bummer, too...isn't that pretty last-minute for all of you who plan vacays years in advance?  I already have trips to HHI and FL in late Feb. and March, and my job would probably miss me too much if I left in April.


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 11, 2012)

IMO with the way Timesharers tend to book in advance, i think the best way to setup a meet so it doesn't conflict with many of our travel plans is to plan it way in advance

I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022


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## amycurl (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> IMO with the way Timesharers tend to book in advance, i think the best way to setup a meet so it doesn't conflict with many of our travel plans is to plan it way in advance
> 
> I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022



:rofl: 

I can make that!


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## Karen G (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I
> 
> I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022


 Since I live here, just about date will work for me.  We can have multiple TUG meet-ups! But there is just April 21 if someone wants to see The Eagles, too.  There are also many kinds of accomodations in Las Vegas besides timeshares.


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## ampaholic (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> IMO with the way Timesharers tend to book in advance, i think the best way to setup a meet so it doesn't conflict with many of our travel plans is to plan it way in advance
> 
> I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022



Ah dang, Monday the 10th I have a dental appointment


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## Beefnot (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> IMO with the way Timesharers tend to book in advance, i think the best way to setup a meet so it doesn't conflict with many of our travel plans is to plan it way in advance
> 
> I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022



Anything other than summer may be tough for folks with school age kids.


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 11, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Anything other than summer may be tough for folks with school age kids.



  Thats the best time to go to vegas! If the kids are in school you don't have to worry about airfare for everyone!  Just put the pizza place on speed dial and they'll be fine!


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 11, 2012)

Anyone with a prediction when this discussion of planning dates goes cranky?


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## geoand (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> IMO with the way Timesharers tend to book in advance, i think the best way to setup a meet so it doesn't conflict with many of our travel plans is to plan it way in advance
> 
> I suggest the weekend of October 7-10th 2022



I think perhaps that people are thinking you made a typo.  However, I know you are to good on the deybord to make typos.  I checked and found that I have colonoscopy scheduled for the 10th and most of us know that the prep time before the procedure is the bummer part of it all.


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## Talent312 (Feb 11, 2012)

Just remember that by 2022, many of our contemporaries will be in a "home."


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## ampaholic (Feb 11, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Thats the best time to go to vegas! If the kids are in school you don't have to worry about airfare for everyone!  Just put the pizza place on speed dial and they'll be fine!



Now see that's a funny joke.


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## geekette (Feb 12, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Anything other than summer may be tough for folks with school age kids.



a weekend with the grandparents would do the kids good!  (see some thread pertaining to this ...   )

Folks don't have to make a week of it.


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## HatTrick (Feb 13, 2012)

tombo said:


> Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. Where to stay in New Orleans, which resort in Orlando is best, is Marriott worth it, is DVC worth it, should you buy in Orlando, Should you buy in Vegas, Branson, etc, etc, etc have all been covered hundreds of times. If a new person asks on of those questions and no one responds we are not being helpful and TUG becomes only valuable to long time members.



Good. So I was wondering...

1. Which is the best Hawaiian island to visit?

2. Should I get a Kindle or a Nook?

3. Does anyone here own a dog?

4. In the market for a new mattress; what's the best one to buy?

5. Is anyone else having trouble logging into the HGVC Web site?

6. Plasma TV or LCD?

7. Which island in Hawaii is best?

8. When's the best time to visit NYC?

9. How much luggage should I take on my next vacation?

10. Would you recommend an iPhone or a Droid?

11. Does this deal I found on eBay sound like a good one?

12. How you get a grape-juice stain out of a car's upholstery?

13. Which Hawaiian island should I visit first?

14. Which airline should I take to Boston?

15. Can you recommend a good restaurant in San Francisco?

16. Should I store an opened bottle of soy sauce in the refrigerator?

17. Which beer should I drink?

18. How many kids should I have?

19. What's your favorite Hawaiian island?

20. Is one day enough to see all of the sights in Washington, DC?

:ignore:        :annoyed:


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## ricoba (Feb 13, 2012)

HatTrick said:


> Good. So I was wondering...
> 
> 1. Which is the best Hawaiian island to visit?
> 
> ...



:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: 

Excellent!  And I thought it was only me who had grown weary of the same old/same old!


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## Passepartout (Feb 13, 2012)

You forgot:

How many kids should I have?

What kind of car should I buy?

And many others.....

P.S. Which is the best Hawaiian Island?

And Why?

Jim


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## ampaholic (Feb 13, 2012)

HatTrick said:


> Good. So I was wondering...
> 
> 1. Which is the best Hawaiian island to visit?
> 
> ...



Whew, what a workout! :annoyed:


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## pjrose (Feb 13, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> You forgot:
> 
> How many kids should I have?
> 
> ...




Mac or PC?

Crockpot recipes?

back/knee/other pain

But despite the repetition, I'm with Tombo:



tombo said:


> . . . Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. Where to stay in New Orleans, which resort in Orlando is best, is Marriott worth it, is DVC worth it, should you buy in Orlando, Should you buy in Vegas, Branson, etc, etc, etc have all been covered hundreds of times. If a new person asks on of those questions and no one responds we are not being helpful and TUG becomes only valuable to long time members. . . .


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't think I'm getting more cranky.  I'm always this way.  

And don't you think your just showing your crankiness by raising the question!!!

(I'm having fun here folks - if my tongue were any further in my cheek I would be tasting my beard.)


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## DeniseM (Feb 13, 2012)

Please add:

Is Mexico safe?

I just gave a stranger my credit card number over the phone to sell my timeshare for a buh-zillion dollars - is that a good deal?

I don't want to pay for my timeshare any more - how can I get out of it with no effort on my part?


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## am1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Did I get a good deal from the developer?????


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## Elan (Feb 13, 2012)

Where should my kid go to college?


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## Beefnot (Feb 13, 2012)

Why should my kid go to college?


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## Passepartout (Feb 13, 2012)

I get cranky over TUGgers getting cranky threads. So cut it out already!

Jim


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## pjrose (Feb 13, 2012)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I don't think I'm getting more cranky.  I'm always this way.
> 
> And don't you think your just showing your crankiness by raising the question!!!
> 
> (I'm having fun here folks -* if my tongue were any further in my cheek I would be tasting my beard.*)



Your beard is *in* your cheek???


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## MuranoJo (Feb 14, 2012)

Puhhleeze, let's not get into tricky tongues here.  I think that was a shill poster.  

To add to Hat's great list:

What's the best car rental deal for HI?
What's the best restaurant in HI?
What's the best buffet in Vegas?


Honestly, I admit I glean some tidbits from these repetitive posts every now and then and have been known to pile it on myself.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 14, 2012)

muranojo said:


> Puhhleeze, let's not get into tricky tongues here.



Tricky tongues indeed!!!

If you want tricky tongues - in college I once knew a girl with a tricky tongue. Having French toast at her place was nothing like any French toast I've had before or since.


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## MuranoJo (Feb 14, 2012)

Doesn't sound like you were too cranky back then?
Amazing what a good breakfast can do for you.


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## dmharris (Feb 14, 2012)

See!  I knew it all came down to sex!  :hysterical:


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 14, 2012)

muranojo said:


> Doesn't sound like you were too cranky back then?
> Amazing what a good breakfast can do for you.


Who said anything about breakfast??? I was just talking about a French toast.


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## geekette (Feb 14, 2012)

I had french toast before going to work yesterday.  Changed nothing, I still had A Monday.


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## ampaholic (Feb 14, 2012)

From the Urban Dictionary:

French Toast #3:

Egging someone else's property, usually a car, then covering it with slices of bread, and leaving it in the sun. The sun cooks the eggs, baking the bread and ruining the car. Hence, french toast.
_The Principal gave me detention the other day, so me and Pablo French Toasted his car._ 
*
I can't repeat #1 on this moderated forum* but I think it is what Steve is referring to.  

#2 is a "Breakfast food"


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## Beefnot (Feb 14, 2012)

Some folks in this thread seem clueless.  Or maybe it's me?


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## pjrose (Feb 14, 2012)

Now I'm going to get cranky....

Better keep it clean or the you-know-whos might do you-know what


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## sail27bill (Feb 17, 2012)

I just got cranky reading this thread!  Then I really got cranky reading the thread about Denise's "untimely death" and finding out I didn't receive her Maui timeshare!  Then I realized it is 2 more days till I am on vacation and this is really making me cranky!!  I think I am going to buy another timeshare...(suddenly I don't feel so cranky anymore).

Anita


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 17, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Now I'm going to get cranky....
> 
> Better keep it clean or the you-know-whos might do you-know what



Yeah - then we might end up with yet another _[deleted]_ thread!!!! :hysterical:


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Now I'm going to get cranky....
> 
> Better keep it clean or the you-know-whos might do you-know what





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yeah - then we might end up with yet another _[deleted]_ thread!!!! :hysterical:



Behave, Troggie - don't you dare get us locked


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2012)

geez, peeej, a little cranky today??


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2012)

geekette said:


> geez, peeej, a little cranky today??



Good rhyme Geeker Girl!  

Just feeling the threat of the dreaded lock if Troggie gets risqué again.....


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## geekette (Feb 17, 2012)

what?  troggie getting risque in dreadlocks?

 

hey, if that's the beat his drummer calls out, I say march on, Trogman!


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## Beefnot (Feb 17, 2012)

You guys are weird


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> You guys are weird



Why, thank you!


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 17, 2012)

*Beyond Cranky & Now All The Way Into Crabby.*

I wasn't feeling at all out of sorts till this TUG-BBS discussion topic got going. 

Now I'm not fit to be in the same room with. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ampaholic (Feb 17, 2012)

yeap - 9 pages (and counting) of Nada.

So it goes ...


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## Sandi Bo (Feb 17, 2012)

I haven't noticed Tuggers being cranky, but I have noticed they have gotten quite cynical.  :ignore:


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2012)

Sandi Bo said:


> I haven't noticed Tuggers being cranky, but I have noticed they have gotten quite cynical.  :ignore:



Goofy, definitely  

Cynical?  Maybe, but with that smile in Amp's picture, cynical is ok


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## MuranoJo (Feb 17, 2012)

I've heard fiber prevents crankiness.  Evidence is in those videos you can take of yourself after eating certain brands of yogurt.


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## pjrose (Feb 17, 2012)

muranojo said:


> I've heard *fiber prevents crankiness.*  Evidence is in those videos you can take of yourself after eating certain brands of yogurt.



Crankiness or Crampiness?  I thought Fiber caused crampiness - which in turn causes crankiness.


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## MuranoJo (Feb 17, 2012)

Either way, it probably smoothes out life's rough edges so people aren't as irritable.  (So they claim.)


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## Htoo0 (Feb 18, 2012)

Do we really want to go in this direction?


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## Sandi Bo (Feb 18, 2012)

I think it might be my fault and I apologize.

I was being facetious earlier, referring to a different thread.  My bad (doesn't EVERYONE read EVERY thread).

I think tuggers are great, I thoroughly enjoy the off the wall stuff discussed in the lounge as well as the dialogue's on more serious topics under the threads for the various programs. 

Happy Saturday of what is a three day week-end for me that I will be thoroughly enjoying at home, catching up on miscellaneous to do tasks around the house (and tugging when my chores pass me by the computer ).


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## Talent312 (Feb 18, 2012)

Htoo0 said:


> Do we really want to go in this direction?



Party-pooper!


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## Sandi Bo (Feb 18, 2012)

Oh, THAT direction!


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## pjrose (Feb 18, 2012)

Htoo0 said:


> Do we really want to go in this direction?



If you've got to go, you've got to go!

And if you don't, you surely will be cranky.


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## ampaholic (Feb 24, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Goofy, definitely
> 
> Cynical?  Maybe, but with that smile in Amp's picture, cynical is ok



That pic is my DD Ashley - a sweeter soul I have never met.


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