# College Graduation - Surprise: It ain't happening?



## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2015)

Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.

Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.

I am STUNNED! This is not the vocal or stupid kid. Not a Fraternity member or sports scholarship.  Does not appear to drink much (went to PHX Spring Training with my siblings and was fine - sort of the adult trip of your future world). 

Anyone with experiences they want to share?


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## am1 (May 6, 2015)

Who paid for college? 

I paid for mine with a sports scholarship which was great but was more invested then paying cash or loans.


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## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2015)

Most likely some loans and the bank of M&D ... had good summer jobs for the past 3 summers.

At least one of the plane ticket holders, is flying in anyway ... has friends & extended family with 100 miles of airport(logic to her was $350 plane ticket/$200 change fee).

I got to tell Auntie late afternoon - no great-nephew college graduation at end of month. (ie no road trip). Her response as, "at least I hadn't brought a card & sent money".


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2015)

The thing is, he had to "apply" for graduation months ago, so he has KNOWN for months that he wasn't graduating.   Not OK to wait this long to tell the family.


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## SueDonJ (May 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.
> 
> Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.
> 
> ...



He's an adult, they're his decisions.  The same goes for anybody who chooses to support him while he figures it out.  If he's able to explain his choices in a way that make sense for him and his supporters, I don't see any reason to be disappointed.

Continued support is another matter altogether.  Both of our two made choices during college that we wouldn't necessarily have made for them if we had the power to control everything they did.  For those specific choices we choose to continue supporting them because they weren't anything related to the kids goofing off, but definitely they always knew that they didn't have our blanket support for any- and everything they decided to do.


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## ace2000 (May 6, 2015)

This kind of thing happens.  I'm curious though, why were you expecting graduation this month?  Did they send an announcement?  Did they tell you or did you assume?  Definitely kind of a strange deal.


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## LisaH (May 6, 2015)

I guess he is far far away from finishing. Some schools will allow the student to "walk" if they are a few credits short of meeting the requirement.
Time to double check with DS to make sure he is actually _graduating_...


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## x3 skier (May 6, 2015)

I remember back in the day when I was in engineering school.

Each term I was issued a pack of IBM Cards (remember them?) that I filled out with my info and those were my courses for that term. If you flunked one, it was an automatic do over next year since the sequence was set for five years and there was no makeup or substitution.

My kids had many many choices but the promise of the end of parental funding in four years had a marvelous effect on those choices of courses toward their chosen majors. 

Cheers


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## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> This kind of thing happens.  I'm curious though, why were you expecting graduation this month?  Did they send an announcement?  Did they tell you or did you assume?  Definitely kind of a strange deal.



Mom and Dad were lead to believe he was GRADUATING. Mom invited US to graduation. Mom & Dad had NO REASON to NOT believe ... Surprise, Surprise, Surprise. I would never have known the date without sis telling me. It is on the college calendar and she confirm with BIG football field ceremony and SMALL hand out the department degrees.

He comes home to dinner almost every Sunday night ...


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## Luanne (May 6, 2015)

This has happened to two people I know.

First, was dh's brother (this happened years before I met him).  The whole family had arrived for the graduation and he told them the day before that he wasn't going to graduate as he hadn't written his senior paper.  So yeah, he knew well ahead of time but didn't tell the family.  He finally went back years later and finished.

Second was the daughter of a friend.  Everyone had made plans to come to the ceremony and she (the daughter) found out only days before the graduation that she wasn't going to graduate.  She had failed a class due to non-participation in an internship and that failing grade brought her GPA down just enough to dis-qualify her from graduation.  They were able to get ahold of everyone so they could cancel their plans.  The daughter took classes over summer, and possibly into the next term and graduated in January.  I don't think the extended family came.


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2015)

Very few kids get a BA in 4 years these days - in most colleges, it's really hard to get all the required classes in 4 years.  It's also not unusual for kids to change majors, sometimes many times.  My concern is why he couldn't discuss his college plans with his parents, long ago, as things happened and his plans changed.


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## Elan (May 6, 2015)

Still doesn't make it seem as though it was obvious he *was* graduating.  Typically college graduation is a fairly big "to do".   Lots of stuff is on a school calendar, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.  And, NO REASON NOT TO, is not the same as REASON TO.  

    I wouldn't send my kid to school and naturally expect that 4 years later they were graduating.  Pretty sure I'd ask quite a few times how school was going, what their class status was, and how many more credits/classes were needed to graduate.  What about post-graduation/job hunting plans?  Had they not discussed that either?  Seemingly, if they had, the "Oh, BTW, I'm not graduating in June" would have come out in that discussion as well.  Obviously, there's a serious communication breakdown.


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2015)

When my kids graduated, there were a lot of discussions *with them* about graduation, times, schedules, tickets, activities, parties, etc.  Did those conversations occur?


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## VegasBella (May 6, 2015)

My husband and I both chose second majors while in college. But we also graduated with two degrees (not a double major one degree, nor switched majors close to finishing one). My 2nd major was a subject I was passionate about and related to my first, same with my husband (I got two liberal arts degrees and he got two science/math degrees). We did it because we enjoyed the subjects and wanted to learn more. But we both told our parents well in advance of graduation. There were no surprises along the way.

Many friends also chose to add another major or switch majors. Some said they did it because they were worried about the job market and wanted to delay entering it. Some just wanted more time in school with what they considered less stress. A few had more legitimate reasons, like the first major was too difficult or there was a drastic change in the industry, etc. But mostly they just wanted to delay graduation.


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## PigsDad (May 6, 2015)

Sounds like this kid has a lot of growing up to do yet.  Personally I wouldn't be upset with him changing his major.  Better to do it now vs. living w/ the regret later.  But to not communicate that to anyone until now show a major lack of maturity on his part.

JMHO,
Kurt


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## Passepartout (May 6, 2015)

My DW and her first husband put their #2 kiddo through college. He majored in historical literature- in German of all things- in Berkeley after studying in Europe a couple of years too. When his brother who graduated in Computer Science from U Idaho (Not your basic Ivy League school) and companies were flying him all over and offering nice starting salaries, and HE wasn't getting any offers- even 'Do Ya Want Fries With That?' He decided to change- in Berkeley no less at (20 years ago)$20,000 a semester. DW told him she'd show him the magic of the in-state residence in California schools. He finally got through -it and has a great position in Silicon Valley.

Some educations just take longer than others.

Jim


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## ace2000 (May 6, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> When my kids graduated, there were a lot of discussions *with them* about graduation, times, schedules, tickets, activities, parties, etc.  Did those conversations occur?




_What we have here is a failure to communicate_

I'm with you.  Without knowing the specifics, you could blame the parents for not double-checking before they invited everyone, or you could blame the student for not keeping the parents informed.  Or maybe they're both at fault to a certain degree... who knows?


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## Rascalsmom (May 6, 2015)

A couple of thoughts - 
If he wasn't involved in campus life and came home every Sunday, I would guess he was the type of kid who couldn't quite separate from teen years and enter into the more independent adult world of college.  Just going through the motions without advocating for your own education doesn't work.  Is he the type of kid who is wrapped up in video games?  That's actually common in the dorms.

My oldest graduated in four years and I require the second to make a degree plan through graduation every time she schedules a semester.  She's on track.

Greek life gets some very (well-deserved) visible bad publicity but I have to say that without my sorority I would probably have not graduated.  I was the first one in my family to attend college and the required study hours, minimum gpa, service projects and culture of going to class gave me structure I didn't have internally.

In this situation as a parent I would say, "I've done what I'm going to do - blessed you with four years of college.  Now what are *you* going to do?"  And step back.


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## mark201235 (May 6, 2015)

Sorry to hear this but it makes me proud of my oldest daughter who will be getting her BS degree in Biochemistry this Saturday. She did it in 4 years and will be heading off to a PhD program in August.


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## geekette (May 6, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> _What we have here is a failure to communicate_
> 
> I'm with you.  Without knowing the specifics, you could blame the parents for not double-checking before they invited everyone, or you could blame the student for not keeping the parents informed.  Or maybe they're both at fault to a certain degree... who knows?



The thing about the kid being home for dinner every Sunday night makes things interesting.  Sounds like willful deceit and significantly inconsiderate.

My folks travelled, there were no discussions about classes, GPA, majors, and certainly no big graduation hoopla, they were not there, I don't recall where in the country they were at the time.  If I'd needed to stay longer it probably would have come up, but it was my dime, I didn't owe anyone explanations about anything.  And no one asked.  Was anyone asking this kid anything the last 6 months???  About when I hit teen rebellion times, I quit volunteering info, if you want to know something, you have to ask me.  Assuming is on you.  

Just a slightly different perspective.


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## deemarket (May 6, 2015)

*It happens*

Sounds similar to what happened to my daughter and son-in-law this month.  His son is a junior and this year lives off campus in a house with 3 other students.  Each is responsible for their share of the rent to the landlord.

He does not ask for much but this month -

Rent was due on May 1st and he texts (doesn't call - very common for him anyway but... I think different situation.. could have called) -  I don't have any of the money for rent. Can you help.  Will have to pay $15/day late fees.  THE DAY IT WAY DUE!  He had to have known weeks ago he wasn't going to come up with the funds.  He just started a new job after not working for several months so understandable - maybe.  

He is on scholarship and gets part of his housing included. ugh And he is a good kid.  So his mother and father each put in half of the $388 he needed and my daughter and son-in-law drove to his house (50 miles) and took him to pay the rent (he was going to bike 8 miles at night to pay the rent).  They also took him to buy groceries and bought some for him also.

It does happen and hopefully he will learn a lesson from this incident.


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## falmouth3 (May 6, 2015)

My sister's first kid dabbled a bit before deciding on a major.  He completed within 4 years.  The second kid kept changing majors until Mom and Dad told him that they were paying for 4 years and only 4 years.  Funny how he decided to settle on a major and complete it within 4 years.


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## bogey21 (May 6, 2015)

am1 said:


> Who paid for college?



When my Daughter (Salutatorian of her HS Class) was looking at schools to attend I was astounded at the cost of the ones she was looking at.  They were top of the line Private Universities and were outrageously expensive.  

I told her that I was putting $50,000 into an account to cover her tuition, living expenses, travel, etc. and if her expenses exceeded the $50,000, she was on the hook for the overage.  I also told her that if she graduated and money was left in the account, it was hers to use as she saw fit.  All of a sudden she had a new list of schools and managed a scholarship that covered all tuition and fees at a major out of state State University.  Needless to say she graduated on time with money left over.

George


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## Weimaraner (May 6, 2015)

At this point why would he want to change his major? A lot of successful people have a bachelor's degree in one field and then change their career path to another. Why not finish his bachelor's degree - and then pick the other field of interest with master level classes? 

I wish he told you sooner. No excuses but he was probably afraid to disappoint everyone. He should learn his lesson from helping pay of the financial losses of those family members who were planning to attend. 

I've heard of a lot of stories about students who didn't tell their parents they weren't going to graduate, including a few who dropped out or failed and continued the charade at home to convince the family they were still going to school.


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## VegasBella (May 6, 2015)

Everyone is different but I would not have expected anyone to come to my graduation without a personal invitation from me. And I would not go to any big event (wedding, graduation, etc) without an invitation from one of the major players. 

It does sound like the student's parents were making some assumptions. Obviously, they all need to communicate better, but personally I would not have booked flights before talking to the student myself.


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## Rascalsmom (May 6, 2015)

One more piece of general information - in the past few years high schools in our area are offering a LOT more AP (Advanced Placement) classes. A motivated student can take an AP class in HS and for $90 test fee get college credit for that class. My daughter entered college with 9 credits; her roommate had 18, and another friend earned 24.  

If they can handle the workload it is quite a bargain, and those kids are finishing undergrad in less than four years.


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## LisaH (May 6, 2015)

mark201235 said:


> Sorry to hear this but it makes me proud of my oldest daughter who will be getting her BS degree in Biochemistry this Saturday. She did it in 4 years and will be heading off to a PhD program in August.


Congrats! DS will graduate next month (yes I double checked ) with a BS in Computer Sciences...


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## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2015)

Rascalsmom said:


> One more piece of general information - in the past few years high schools in our area are offering a LOT more AP (Advanced Placement) classes. A motivated student can take an AP class in HS and for $90 test fee get college credit for that class. My daughter entered college with 9 credits; her roommate had 18, and another friend earned 24.
> 
> If they can handle the workload it is quite a bargain, and those kids are finishing undergrad in less than four years.



Thanks for reminding me ....

He did AP courses also ... a ton of them. Cut  well over a semester off his "program".

And he got 800 on the Math section of the SATs ... and as everyone in my family, comment "oh, just like your uncle!"


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## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2015)

Here is an interesting statistic ... best in that state among the state 4 year colleges ... worst is 5%.

The university he attends ONLY has a 65% graduation rate --- within the "normal" 4 year cycle of attendance. So that old phrase --- take a Look Left and a Look Right ... come 4 years, one of you is NOT going to be here graduating.


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## ace2000 (May 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Here is an interesting statistic ... best in that state among the state 4 year colleges ... worst is 5%.
> 
> The university he attends ONLY has a 65% graduation rate --- within the "normal" 4 year cycle of attendance. So that old phrase --- take a Look Left and a Look Right ... come 4 years, one of you is NOT going to be here graduating.



Not sure if you realize this, but 65% is actually a very high rate!


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## LLW (May 6, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.
> 
> Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.
> 
> ...



What are the old and new majors? If he's changing from one with which it's hard to find a good career and professional life, to one that's easy (e.g. from music to computer sciences), I would be more forgiving, although there would still be consequences for this immaturity and disregard for others.


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## Clemson Fan (May 6, 2015)

I sort of pulled something like this, but not on such a short time table.  I was an engineering major and I did a co-op job every other semester over a 2 year period at Argonne National Lab outside of Chicago.  Working that job I came to the conclusion I really didn't want to be an engineer for the rest of my life.  One of my buddies in the biological section was pre-accepted to med school at University of Wisconsin.  I started picking his brain about what it took to go to med school because I literally had no clue as nobody in my family was in medicine.  I found out that I had all the pre-requisites pretty much done except for Biology 101 & 102 and the MCAT.  So when I went back for my senior year I announced to my parents that I was going to try to go to med school.  That was completely out of left field for them.  I did, however, finish my engineering degree and just took Biology 101 & 102 as a 5th year senior with all the youngling freshmen.  I took the MCAT, applied and got into med school, graduated and accepted my engineering degree and framed it and never ever used it.

My advice to this kid would be if your only 19 hours away then why not just go ahead and finish the degree.  Then just work on the degree and career path he really wants to pursue.  Even if he never wants to use that degree, just having it may be a significant differentiating factor when applying for something he really wants.


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## DeniseM (May 7, 2015)

He's not close to earning a degree:  





> has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.



"19" is the number of days until graduations.


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## Clemson Fan (May 7, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> He's not close to earning a degree:
> 
> "19" is the number of days until graduations.



Oops, I guess I failed my skim reading comprehension test today!


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## vacationhopeful (May 7, 2015)

LLW said:


> What are the old and new majors? _If he's changing from one with which it's hard to find a good career and professional life, to one that's easy (e.g. from music to computer sciences)_, I would be more forgiving, although there would still be consequences for this immaturity and disregard for others.



Has been Computer Science with a Data Base interest to Astronomy - just the opposite IMHO 

In a somewhat defense of his actions, Astronomy was his minor.


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## Ken555 (May 7, 2015)

I suspect there's more going on than you know.


Sent from my iPad


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## DeniseM (May 7, 2015)

Question:  Have his parents seen his grades.  Has he been passing the classes he was taking?


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.
> 
> Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.
> 
> ...



Wow.   My son is coming home next week.  He is a Junior.   Smart kid, but absent minded.  I could actually see him forgetting to tell me if he isn't graduating.  I need to ask him if he in on schedule to finish next year.  Thanks for the heads up.


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Has been Computer Science with a Data Base interest to Astronomy - just the opposite IMHO
> 
> In a somewhat defense of his actions, Astronomy was his minor.



Computer science isn't an easy major.  It's one where you need to put in the hours or you can't get the projects done.  Lots and lots of hours even if you are good.   If he has been having trouble with this major, he would have known it a while ago.   If it were my youngest son, he would simply not want to deliver the bad news to me.  Perhaps your son knew he wasn't going to graduate and couldn't get the nerve up to tell you.  When he finally did, it was too late.


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## Phydeaux (May 7, 2015)

https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ


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## ace2000 (May 7, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> _What we have here is a failure to communicate_





Phydeaux said:


> https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ



Ha - I wish I would've been clever enough to add the video...


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## PigsDad (May 7, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Ha - I wish I would've been clever enough to add the video...



Or clever enough to inline it. 

[youtube]V2f-MZ2HRHQ[/youtube]

Kurt


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## vacationhopeful (May 7, 2015)

BocaBum99 said:


> Computer science isn't an easy major.   <snip>   Perhaps your son knew he wasn't going to graduate and couldn't get the nerve up to tell you.  When he finally did, it was too late.



Nephew. Oldest of 3 brothers. Both parents have great college backgrounds; Dad has at least one advance degree. Not practically as a youth nor ever a leader ... just went with the flow and then would freaked OUT angry if things got difficult or not getting his way. Younger kids looked up to him .

I am amazed by this whole mess.
I went 1000 miles from home during the Vietnam War Era - no internet, no cell phones, just 5 day old letters from home ... maybe once a month. And NEVER ever any cash, checks or plane tickets or stipends from the college or my parents or other relatives.

I got myself to/from school at my expense; every penny I spent came from  my jobs: babysitting, working fast food, lifeguarding; decided alone on all classes and adventures ... had a great 3.5 years earning 2 degrees and a minor from course work at 3 universities. And got a great job starting 2 weeks after my classes ended (was offered many professional jobs).

Right or Wrong ...at 18, I had to do it all. There was no backup plan or support ... I came home from college one summer and a night or 2 later, my older brother took my car and smashed out a telephone pole. My mom laughed about my trashed car as she suggested I needed to take her to work - if I wanted a car that day. Yes, I took her to work and then went to my grandmother's dining room to tell my plight .... My grandmother called my dad over and told him to get me a car or give me my mom's car  ... as they gave permission to my brother to drive MY CAR.... 3 days later, I had an used car plus my parents who were mad as all get out. It was a 3 speed stick & I learned to drive it in the field next door. I had to - I had already paid for my summer college classes and had a job.

Some kids NEVER get it .... most do grow up (some sooner and other kids, years later).

Glad I am not a fly on the wall of my sister's house come this Sunday after lunch. I figure someone is going to be getting some life lessons .... like: College costs MONEY! Money is not infinite! You are oldest of 3 brothers. You got your 4 years of college; what are your plans NOW? We are saving for retirement. 

PS The middle brother is finishing his 2nd year of college this week. And 3 years left in high school for the youngest brother.


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Nephew. Oldest of 3 brothers. Both parents have great college backgrounds; Dad has at least one advance degree. Not practically as a youth nor ever a leader ... just went with the flow and then would freaked OUT angry if things got difficult or not getting his way. Younger kids looked up to him .
> 
> I am amazed by this whole mess.
> I went 1000 miles from home during the Vietnam War Era - no internet, no cell phones, just 5 day old letters from home ... maybe once a month. And NEVER ever any cash, checks or plane tickets or stipends from the college or my parents or other relatives.
> ...



Oh, so this is your nephew.  I missed that fact.   Anyway, given your description of him and his parents, I am pretty sure it is the fact that he was too afraid to tell his parents that he wasn't going to finish his Computer Science degree.  I'll bet that the parents strongly encouraged him to go that route instead of picking it himself.   The same type of thing happened to me with my 12 year old son.  He did extremely well in everything through 6th grade.  Then, he started coming off the rails in a number of things and was afraid to tell me for fear of disappointment and/or criticism.   I've had to back way off to give him room to make his own mistakes and grow up.

Since you are the auntie, what I would do is show compassion for your nephew and visit him on campus.  Take him to lunch and find out what is going on.  He may tell you and you can guide him in the right direction.  That's what I would do if it were one of my nieces having problems.   It's very tough being a son or daughter of very successful parents.   The level of expectations are very high and those parents will always say, "you don't know how good you have it.   I didn't have any of the privileges you had and I had to do blah blah blah...."  You get the point.   Then, you can help your brother out by letting him know what he can't see because the son is hiding it from him.


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## ace2000 (May 7, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Without knowing the specifics, you could blame the parents for not double-checking before they invited everyone, or you could blame the student for not keeping the parents informed.  Or maybe they're both at fault to a certain degree... who knows?




Vacationhopeful - none of us know as much as you do.  I'm curious who you feel is more at blame?  (Based on the knowledge you have).  I'm guessing that you appear to be on the parents side, since most of your replies in this thread have related to the nephew, and probably zero focus on the parents.  So, in your opinion - who is it mostly - the nephew's or the parents fault?  I'm kind of curious whether I'm reading you right.


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## chriskre (May 7, 2015)

My niece just "graduated" from College.  
They let her walk, but she still has to go back and take a micro-economics class that the school counselor had failed to let her know she needed.  
They admitted that since it was their fault and that she was a Phi Theta Kappa candidate that they would let her walk with the rest of her class.  
But the school only allowed 2 invitations per person because there were 14,000 graduates in her class.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

When I graduated there was limited seating and I had to get "tickets" for my guests. 

It would have been nuts for my parents to invite others (without my knowledge) since they wouldn't have had anywhere to sit if I didn't know about them in advance.


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## vacationhopeful (May 7, 2015)

Ace2000 ... I feel for the parents' STUNNED DISBELIEF.

The parents are smart, forward looking, planning, caring. My sister does the room mother, troop mother, organizes everything, and manages the home front. Both are very well liked and respected in the neighborhood.

As for this young man ... I think it is mostly HIM. He is too quiet and does not communicate to either peers or adults. A loner. But they have not done much about this either ... been in a single college dorm room for the last 3 years. .....<snip>The parents should be able to help and had the skill set if giving some direction by professionals . The youngest brother is sensitive and not going to be an problem... plus he has 6 more weeks of high school.


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## Glynda (May 7, 2015)

*Our experience...*



vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.
> 
> Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.
> 
> ...



Not quite the same but our daughter notified us around the third quarter of her senior year attending college away from home that she wanted to yet again change her major which would mean she would not graduate at the end of the spring term, as she would with the current major, but would require another year.  Her father (we were paying) told her "no."  He told her to just finish something.  Get the degree.  Several years later we learned the real reason she wanted to change her major.  We were paying for her to live alone in an off-campus apartment that year.  She had a boyfriend.  We thought he lived elsewhere.  Turned out he didn't.  He was living with her, paying nothing.  He was a year behind her.  Funny thing happened when she went ahead and graduated and came home to find a job. He immediately found another girl with an apartment near campus.  Broke her heart!


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## ilene13 (May 7, 2015)

In 1968 my father sat me down as I was about to go off to a private university and told me that both he and my mother had 4 year experiences in college, which included receiving their degrees and he expected the same from me.  I complied.  I had the same discussion with my sons, who did not know the words "state university of", and they too got their degrees from private universities in 4 years.


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## SueDonJ (May 7, 2015)

I think people who haven't been to college or who haven't been supporters of college students for a number of years would be surprised at just how little parental interaction or intervention is allowed.  Unless you know in advance to force your Age 18+ student to sign his/her permission for you to get access to grades, professors, deans, RA's, tuition records, medical records, etc, then you're not getting that access.  It's very easy for students to do their own things, and more common than not for things to happen without the knowledge of parents/guardians who need to know about them in a timely fashion. 

We didn't learn about this or any other helpful parental tips from any of the colleges our children thought about attending, not at any of the Parent Workshops or Pre-application Visits or mailed literature.  We learned it from a very good high school guidance counselor who included parents in the process.  If you have a high schooler and his/her school offers any type of Junior/Senior pre-college assemblies which parents are welcome to attend, do yourself a favor and go.  If your student isn't on-the-ball or doesn't routinely share everything with you, which is probably more than half of a Junior/Senior population, pick up the phone and call the Guidance Dept yourself.  It's your only chance to be prepared for the bumps that are almost certain to come.


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## Chrispee (May 7, 2015)

I can't imagine paying for my son's college/university education before the fact. I'd much prefer he student loan it and then I'd be happy to pay his loan off on successful completion.  Some young adults work well with little oversight/accountability, but I'd rather he be financially invested in succeeding.  University is about so much more than formal education, and I think there are too may missing out on the other aspects nowadays.


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## ace2000 (May 7, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I think people who haven't been to college or who haven't been supporters of college students for a number of years would be surprised at just how little parental interaction or intervention is allowed.  Unless you know in advance to force your Age 18+ student to sign his/her permission for you to get access to grades, professors, deans, RA's, tuition records, medical records, etc, then you're not getting that access.  It's very easy for students to do their own things, and more common than not for things to happen without the knowledge of parents/guardians who need to know about them in a timely fashion.



This is the absolute truth.  For a variety of reasons, the universities see the parents as a BIG nuisance.  And that's even though the parents are the ones that are paying the freight.


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## vacationhopeful (May 7, 2015)

In many industries, cash cows are milked til the account balance is zero and assets are leverage to the hilt - transferred into cash via loans or outright selling.

I have had talks with parents who found some professors had "milk" their naïve kids into head count for more funding to their department.

In discussions with friends near me, a union oil refinery worker was doing over time to send his daughter to a State University on a southern beach city... she dropped out 2 years before he caught on .... apartment, food, car, clothes, gas, tuition .... while he is pulling doubles (16 hours shifts) 3 or 4 times a week. When he confronted her, she told him he had to pay because* she was having fun.* That was over 5 years ago ... he still has not spoken to her.

Another lady just tonight who worked at a LARGE state university in the Registrar office ... told me, the slick kids had their blue collar families paying the in state tuition while living at home ... seems if you dropped out before the 2 week mark, the university gave a 100% refund sent in the kid's name home. All the ex-student had to do, was be home when the mailman delivered the mail & grab the check.... And then just register for classes again the next semester with parents paying the new bill.... happened a lot. They even suggested a way for the parents to figure out WHAT the little angels were doing ... usual outcome was a major beating.


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## DeniseM (May 7, 2015)

All colleges post schedules, adds, drops, and grades online these days.  All you have to do is to be sure you have the log-in to the Acct. from the very beginning when they register the first time.  

I also paid their tuition from that Acct., using a credit card that earns FF miles.  

My kids  never balked at this, but if they did, I would make access one of the conditions of paying their tuition.  

I never wanted my kids to have student loans.  I've seen too many young people come out of school owing horrible amounts.  Much more manageable to "pay as you go."  YMMV


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## bogey21 (May 7, 2015)

Let's face it.  Things have changed and are different today.  I'm not sure for the better.  My 3 kids expected me to pay and I paid 100% of the cost for college for all of them. But back when I graduated from HS and my parents offered to pay for my college I said "no way".  I wanted to make my own way in the world so I volunteered for the draft (at the tail end of the Korean War) in order to get the GI Bill.  Between the GI Bill benefits and working I paid for 100% of my education.

George


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## silentg (May 7, 2015)

We had 2 children son and daughter, both earned degrees Bachelor one in Computer Science at State School took him 5 years but that is ok.  Daughter Bachelor of Music Performance at  a Private University, scholarships for both of them.  Doing well on thier own.   Daughter was going for masters but decided on a different route, when for technical training and now has her own business.  Son is on his own living in another part of the state, doing well with no financial needs from us.  
Perhaps the OP son has a fear of the world outside academia, we may not realize  the pressure we put on our kids to do things on schedule or follow the path that we think is right for them.  I am learning the hard way, that my children always had a difficult time discussing things with me, because I would give my opinion or show my disapproval of some of their choices.  I was not always wrong, but I was not always right either.  I always thought I was approachable but they have told me they felt like they were disappointing me and it was hard to confide in me.  Now that they are older and successful, they still try to spare my feelings about lifestyle issues.  One thing though they trust my judgement on timeshares and ask my advice. Son made big timeshare mistake but wont do that again.  Just get them to talk to you and try to be understanding, not saying be a doormat, but be supportive.
TerryC


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## DebBrown (May 12, 2015)

Missing person in Pennsylvania actually kid who didn't tell parents he dropped out of school.

http://news.yahoo.com/parents-penn-state-graduation-son-missing-dropped-195200125.html

So it could have been worse!

Deb


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## WinniWoman (May 13, 2015)

silentg said:


> We had 2 children son and daughter, both earned degrees Bachelor one in Computer Science at State School took him 5 years but that is ok.  Daughter Bachelor of Music Performance at  a Private University, scholarships for both of them.  Doing well on thier own.   Daughter was going for masters but decided on a different route, when for technical training and now has her own business.  Son is on his own living in another part of the state, doing well with no financial needs from us.
> Perhaps the OP son has a fear of the world outside academia, we may not realize  the pressure we put on our kids to do things on schedule or follow the path that we think is right for them.  I am learning the hard way, that my children always had a difficult time discussing things with me, because I would give my opinion or show my disapproval of some of their choices.  I was not always wrong, but I was not always right either.  I always thought I was approachable but they have told me they felt like they were disappointing me and it was hard to confide in me.  Now that they are older and successful, they still try to spare my feelings about lifestyle issues.  One thing though they trust my judgement on timeshares and ask my advice. Son made big timeshare mistake but wont do that again.  Just get them to talk to you and try to be understanding, not saying be a doormat, but be supportive.
> TerryC




Wow. This really resonates with me. Maybe this is the issue I have with our son and why he hesitates to talk about certain things that in my estimation matter. He graduated in 2010 with a BA in Communications (a major change from meteorology)- an out of state school costing us over $100,000 for the education. He is working a job that required a Bachelors degree, but only makes $13 per hour with a small quarterly bonus- barely made $30,000 the past couple of years. Travels  about 10 times per year out West for the company to visit clients. The job is great experience, but after 3 years he really needs to make a living wage. Paying $900 per month rent in NH for a small apartment. He can't find a cheaper one and is done with having room mates. (He is 27). Has a 2004 car with over 200,000 miles on it and can save no money and obviously has no room in his budget for a car payment. Thank goodness he has no loans. If I didn't push him to look for a "real" job when he graduated he would have been still working in Rite Aid and shoveling horse doo doo and cooking at a ranch for room and board, which he really didn't like but did so he didn't have to come home to live. He wanted to live on his own and I do give him a lot of credit for that. I try to just accept his situation but I can't seem to help myself to make suggestions on getting a cheaper apartment (very hard in NH), getting a better paying job, etc. I think I am helping him-pushing him as he is not very motivated or ambitious-but maybe I am not helping? He does communicate with me if he is going to look at an apartment. No mention of trying to change jobs. Meanwhile, all our friends and coworkers have kids who have prospered with good jobs- gotten married, had children, bought homes, etc. They have wonderful family lives and events-their kids are taking THEM to dinner- stuff like that. We don't have any of that and all I do is worry about him. Nothing is ever "new" with him- when people ask all I can say is he is surviving. (He is a good person and very sensitive so don't get me wrong). We cannot help him money wise anymore. We have done a lot- the college tuition, gave him that car, gave him some money, etc. UGH!

I will add that I was a helicopter parent when he was in college, despite what the college advised. He was in a flux his first year- failed Calculus(D) and Chemistry (F)- long story- but we made him pay us back for those 2 classes. Told him we don't pay for any classes under a "C". But he decided to change majors for his second year- called me in a flux from school while my husband and I were in the car following my poor sister-inlaw's hearse at her funeral because he couldn't decide which major to change to! I told him to look at the courses he would have to take- would they be something he would be interested in and willing to work to get the good grades. I also told him just to make sure he graduates in 4 years because anything beyond that would be his responsibility. He and his then girlfriend both changed to Communications and managed to graduate in 4 years- thank goodness for that at least!


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## bogey21 (May 13, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> I also told him just to make sure he graduates in 4 years because anything beyond that would be his responsibility. *He and his then girlfriend both changed to Communications and managed to graduate in 4 years*- thank goodness for that at least!



Changing a major in order to graduate doesn't make sense.  Get a degree in a field that will further your career, not one to ensure graduation.  It took me 8 Universities and 15 years to graduate paying my own way (with the help of the GI Bill which I earned with my service in Korea).  Along the way I never waivered pursuing a major in Accounting and a minor in Finance.  What I learned was instrumental in a successful career.

George


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## geekette (May 13, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> Wow. This really resonates with me. Maybe this is the issue I have with our son and why he hesitates to talk about certain things that in my estimation matter. ...



There are a couple things in your post, that I severely snipped, that occurred to me, the impartial observer.

First, I want to make sure that your son is healthy.  It feels like depression coming thru, like he is adrift and settling for what he has because maybe he doesn't have hope or belief for something better for himself?  Maybe not, maybe he is one of those people that doesn't aspire to big things and is happy just surviving.  There is nothing wrong with this, the world needs followers just as much as it needs leaders.  Not everyone aspires to an exciting career, some people just want jobs.  I just think you need to make sure he hasn't Given Up.  He's far too young for that, he needs to envision a future for himself vs cloud of doom.  

Second, perhaps fear of failure causes him to hold himself back.  Could be an internal thing or perhaps desperate fear of disappointing you.  To me, this could be why he doesn't want to bring up things that you think are important, because maybe they are far down the priority list for him, and he feels nagged when his expectations of himself do not align with your expectations for him.  If he stays in this safe job, safe situation, he doesn't have to risk rejection at interviews, doesn't have to face Change (some people are very very afraid of Change, even the good kind).  Or maybe he actually likes what he's doing and resents the implication that it's not good enough, that you aren't proud of him, that he's a failure because he doesn't make what you feel is enough money.  Try to make sure you aren't transmitting these things to him as it sounds like you expect him to be doing just as well as all of these other people and he feels it and shuts down.  "Why try?  I can't win no matter what I do, it's never good enough..."

Third, maybe he just doesn't know what he wants.  I was one of those, hated the "what do you want to be when you grow up" question because I didn't know, and still didn't through college and after.   Long After.  I was in my late 20s when I found something I liked and was good at but it was a while until a career path emerged, until I felt happy and secure in my choice.  From all appearances, I was floundering, settling, not at all living up to my potential (my dad was a one-company-man from age 18 and what was wrong with me?).  Granted, there were economic conditions somewhat like these days, when it just isn't so easy to move up the ladder if you don't have the resume.  There were years after college that I made damned little money.  I decided that was all temporary (turned out to be true but I really just had to keep Hope, be optimistic that this was not how my life would go, it would get better).  It was a very scary time for me but I bolstered myself.  Not everyone has that within themselves, but it's not going to help to keep telling him he needs to change jobs.

I'd back off, let him live his life, let him fulfill his own ambitions, even if they are far below what you want for him.  It's not for you to say that money will make him happy.  And sometimes, there just isn't the money until you've paid your dues.  For me, it was find what you love, the money will follow.  If you love what you do, you find a way to live within your means.

It might be hard to watch him struggle, but I guarantee The Struggle will be very good for him.  Character building, proof of self-reliance, etc.  Definitely keep to the "no more money", it's up to him to finance his lifestyle and find his way in the world.

But bottom line, be accepting of his choices, ask about things and listen without judgement.  Perhaps he will start feeling safer in revealing aspects of his life when he senses it is Ok with you vs "going to start a lecture".  Praise him, provide positive support even if you don't like his choices.  He needs to please himself but it might be easier if he knows you are onboard.  Don't bring up old car, apartment, etc., but be interested in his work vs disparaging.  Ask vs tell.  

Not sure I am anywhere near correct, but it felt a little like my own situation long ago so thought maybe a few things I needed back then might apply.  Most of all, I needed a champion, someone that would be in my corner no matter what vs criticize or inflict their own plans for me on me.  It's always been easier to clam up than listen to what I should have done or how someone else would have handled it, etc.  If I didn't bring it up, no one knew about it so I could avoid what felt a lot like harrassment, no matter how well-intended the "advice."

Good Luck!  Believe that he will find his way his own way in his own time and speak to him from that position of belief in him.


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## Talent312 (May 13, 2015)

A tale of two daughters (from news source):
Both leave home to go to the University of Florida (which has a rep as a party school).
One seriously pursues her studies and graduates on time.

The other uses her roommate's identity to get a fake DL and goes out clubbing.
She gets caught, charged with a felony, but is offered a diversion program.
But she misses her court date and skips town, only to be arrested months later.

Her mother says:  "I sent both my daughters to UF. One did fine.
The other came home a fugitive & pregnant. What went wrong?"


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## WinniWoman (May 13, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> Changing a major in order to graduate doesn't make sense.  Get a degree in a field that will further your career, not one to ensure graduation.  It took me 8 Universities and 15 years to graduate paying my own way (with the help of the GI Bill which I earned with my service in Korea).  Along the way I never waivered pursuing a major in Accounting and a minor in Finance.  What I learned was instrumental in a successful career.
> 
> George



He wanted to change his major! He was suffering! He couldn't cut the math and chemistry and wasn't enjoying the classes. He refused to retake the classes! I didn't make him change his major- he made that decision. I was sad about it as he always had a passion for weather. I wouldn't have made him change his major just so he could graduate in 4 years. He actually did take classes over winter breaks as well, but he would not do what it took for the meteorology degree.


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## WinniWoman (May 13, 2015)

geekette said:


> There are a couple things in your post, that I severely snipped, that occurred to me, the impartial observer.
> 
> First, I want to make sure that your son is healthy.  It feels like depression coming thru, like he is adrift and settling for what he has because maybe he doesn't have hope or belief for something better for himself?  Maybe not, maybe he is one of those people that doesn't aspire to big things and is happy just surviving.  There is nothing wrong with this, the world needs followers just as much as it needs leaders.  Not everyone aspires to an exciting career, some people just want jobs.  I just think you need to make sure he hasn't Given Up.  He's far too young for that, he needs to envision a future for himself vs cloud of doom.
> 
> ...



Excellent advice and right on the money! Thank you! I don't think he is depressed. He has lost 2 girlfriends and was upset for awhile about that, of course. But he does have friends and is on a community soft ball league, etc. (He is a large guy- overweight I might add, but always has been. The Teddy Bear type).I have been working on just trying to be detached and kind of treat him like I would a friend- not get too personal in his business etc. Try to just be upbeat and talk about things he likes- like the movies and music and food. We vacation in  the state he lives in and have taken him out to lunch. He introduced us to his coworkers and bosses and showed us around his workplace. We were supportive and acted impressed, etc. I am trying to not ask him too many questions as he is hard to pin down and I don't think he likes it! LOL! He is definitely the type that doesn't like change and doesn't like to make decisions. A follower- not a leader- even somewhat of a loner in some ways- introverted- but very social and talkative with his friends. Loves animals- his cat. Good guy. He would have been great as a broadcast meteorologist as he has the talent for speaking- great voice and can focus- one of the reasons they hired him at this job since there is a lot of sales phone work. Good in front of a camera as well, but life is taking him elsewhere obviously!

My husband and I say we might be dead by then, but if he lasts at this small company (the corporate office is in another country) eventually all the other people there (only about 20 or 30 of them)- who are just a bit younger than us--will retire and by default maybe he will become President of the company! Hey- you never know! LOL!:rofl:


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## Wonka (May 13, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay ... 4 years attending college. 19 days before the BIG EVENT. Plane tickets brought. Major Big State University.
> 
> Reason: Wants to change their major (big difference - not even close to original major) and has NOT fulfilled any level of a possible college degree.
> 
> ...



You're not alone.  We went to our oldest son's graduation ceremony, and when he showed us his diploma folder it was empty.  Apparently, he hadn't completed a paper that was due.  What a surprise!  He finished the paper in the next couple of weeks, so it wasn't that bad, but we would have felt better if he had warned us of the situation.


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## Ken555 (May 13, 2015)

Wonka said:


> You're not alone.  We went to our oldest son's graduation ceremony, and when he showed us his diploma folder it was empty.  Apparently, he hadn't completed a paper that was due.  What a surprise!  He finished the paper in the next couple of weeks, so it wasn't that bad, but we would have felt better if he had warned us of the situation.




Um, wow. You have nothing to complain about. But you did. Absurd.


Sent from my iPad


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Um, wow. You have nothing to complain about. But you did. Absurd.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Actually, Ken555 .... Wonka WAS stunned and shocked ... college for 4 years is a big bill and many families plans get altered to MAKE college happen for a child .... 

A college paper not done --- no diploma .... ABSOLUTELY not the end of the world. 

But my diploma was DISPLAYED and cards & gifts from the extended family were placed there by the diploma during my post graduation party held by my parents.


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## Ken555 (May 13, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> Actually, Ken555 .... Wonka WAS stunned and shocked ... college for 4 years is a big bill and many families plans get altered to MAKE college happen for a child ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My point, which you so obviously missed, was that wonka's complaint pales in comparison to the OP. And complaining about a couple of weeks delay is truly absurd by any definition.


Sent from my iPad


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## b2bailey (May 13, 2015)

*I'm thinking he knows you well enough to know...*



mpumilia said:


> We were supportive and acted impressed, etc.l:



There are many parents who would be thanking God to have the opportunity to do what you did that day -- and not have to ACT impressed.

Sorry if that was harsh, it was just what jumped out at me. My husband seemed to always feel and know that he hadn't quite made the mark for his father.


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## taterhed (May 13, 2015)

You're right Ken, but after paying fur four years of college, you do expect to at least see the diploma you paid for...  but, at least they graduated. You'd think it would be more off a priority, wouldn't you? 

from my cell...


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## VacationForever (May 13, 2015)

I finally decided to chime in.  Many kids do not graduate in 4 years, some actually shorter and many longer.  The issue is that this kid was not forthcoming that he was far from being able to graduate and somehow the parents expected him to (ASS-U-ME?).  Gosh, how did that happen?  Both sides were at fault.  

My learning disabled son graduated in 6 years (several years ago), including spending first 2 years in Berkeley (He had the grades/SATs to get in) but he was struggling due to his disability and lacked of discipline in being away from home.  He applied for leave of absence and left in good (academic) standing because I yanked him out.  I moved him home after spending 60K for the 2 years, and he went to a local state university so that I could monitor and push him along.  He went through 3 majors (first of his choosing, second of mine and third jointly).  Being able to graduate with good grades at the end of 6 years was a major achievement for him.  At age of 7, doctors asked that he be placed in an institution for the mentally retarded (yes, those were the days when retarded was an acceptable term).  He is very intelligent (IQ test was part of his disability testing) but has learning deficiencies.  Moral of the story is that be happy with the child that you have.  It really does not matter how long it takes for the child to graduate or how much he/she makes upon graduation.  I am so proud of him that I tear up when I think of the years of struggle behind him and still has in front of him.


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## jehb2 (May 13, 2015)

When I was an RA there were always a couple of students who wanted to change their major in their last semester simply because they were really afraid of graduating.  They didn't know what they were going to do with their lives and they were really afraid of life after college.


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## ace2000 (May 13, 2015)

sptung said:


> I finally decided to chime in.  Many kids do not graduate in 4 years, some actually shorter and many longer.  The issue is that this kid was not forthcoming that he was far from being able to graduate and somehow the parents expected him to (ASS-U-ME?).  Gosh, how did that happen?  Both sides were at fault.



First, great post.  I enjoyed reading your story.  

You're right on this comment above.  Many do not graduate in four years (more than half do not).  Why the parents would assume so, and then send out invitations to the relatives without talking to the student, is beyond me.  I think that's where the blame lies.  However, it seems the comments on this thread have been mostly been focused on the kid.


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## Ken555 (May 14, 2015)

taterhed said:


> You're right Ken, but after paying fur four years of college, you do expect to at least see the diploma you paid for...  but, at least they graduated. You'd think it would be more off a priority, wouldn't you?
> 
> from my cell...




Actually, no. I think the priority should be on the education itself, and whether or not the student truly learned something or not. And a two week delay for viewing the diploma isn't a big deal. Yeah, I understand the disappointment but it's...just a piece of paper. 

More important concerns, at least to me, would be if the student has a job lined up post graduation? Do they know what career path (if only one, these days) they intend to pursue? Where they will live post college? How they will pay their expenses? Or, are they immediately pursuing a graduate degree (in which case, I'm sure they are aware of their graduation status)? The diploma is simply a means to an end, and the paper itself is unimportant.

Of course, my perspective may be different as I graduated from a liberal arts college which emphasized the importance of the big picture balanced with details. I think that approach is sadly lacking these days.

Even so, I think most parents and relatives are much more concerned about the diploma itself than the student.


Sent from my iPad


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## WinniWoman (May 14, 2015)

b2bailey said:


> There are many parents who would be thanking God to have the opportunity to do what you did that day -- and not have to ACT impressed.
> 
> Sorry if that was harsh, it was just what jumped out at me. My husband seemed to always feel and know that he hadn't quite made the mark for his father.




I guess that came out wrong. We love our son and are grateful at every opportunity we have to visit with him. In many ways we ARE proud of him- his resolve to stay independent and live on his own. Not to live with mommy and daddy.....The office he works at is very nice- the people very nice- all looks good on the surface-but knowing what we know it was hard to accept him staying at this job after 3 years and also having no plans whatsoever in his life. 

My husband is not actually concerned at all so I doubt our son feels pressure from him at all. He dropped out of high school and earned a GED after he met me (yes- I encouraged him to do so and without that GED he never would have been in the position he is in now). He never earned a 6 figure salary. He is very easy going- not one of these fathers who puts pressure on academic or career achievement. His roots are blue collar. I am more of the worry wart about our son's survival and ability to thrive. If he was earning decent money and was sweeping floors for a living, I would be ok with that. I want him to be able to save money for his future and be able to save some money for things he will need, like a car. I am not saying I want him to be rich and famous! Like many parents these days (none that I know personally, however, just read about) the issue is you pay $100,000 for your kid to go to college so they can get a good job with decent earnings and when that doesn't happen it's a disappointment- no denying it- would be lying if I said otherwise.


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## Ken555 (May 14, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> First, great post.  I enjoyed reading your story.
> 
> You're right on this comment above.  Many do not graduate in four years (more than half do not).  Why the parents would assume so, and then send out invitations to the relatives without talking to the student, is beyond me.  I think that's where the blame lies.  However, it seems the comments on this thread have been mostly been focused on the kid.




Absolutely correct. That's why my first post on this thread suggested that there's more going on than we know about. I highly doubt we've heard the full and complete story.


Sent from my iPad


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## WinniWoman (May 14, 2015)

I will also add that taking more time to graduate is certainly fine- IF you can afford to keep paying for more classes and more room and board, etc. Heck- I myself would have loved to stay in college permanently! This work thing is way overrated!


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## vacationhopeful (May 14, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> I will also add that taking more time to graduate is certainly fine- IF you can afford to keep paying for more classes and more room and board, etc. Heck- I myself would have loved to stay in college permanently! This work thing is way overrated!



That is the truth!

IMHO ..... This young man has not had to "find his way" in the real world. He is just terrified and isolated - always has been afraid I will get ahold of him and put him to work on my chain gang.  :hysterical:

As the eldest of the kids, he had little opportunity to be responsible and act as a leader. You barely know he is around .... getting an opinion from him is HARD (very, very hard). Many times his brother 7 years younger was sent with him after he got his driver's license - to direct him to his destination & make sure he found his way home .... younger brother playing his Gameboy in 2nd row of seats and commenting on "left at stop sign", back to game, "straight ahead", kill a monster, "don't turn here, go straight" ... without looking up. In mono-tone voice.

I took the middle brother to Florida first - he had a sudden and extremely serious health issue - flu which almost killed him. I took him on that Summer week trip to boost his confidence ... that was a noticeable BIG change. The next summer, I took this boy ... 3 years older by then ... he got sick from stress (thought that at the time) midway thru the week (needed a DOWN day with him watching his favorite TV show marathon).

Still no word on what is going on .... just assume if it took years for this to develop ... could take a while for it to resolve... 

Been helpful as to what is happening in so many families .... times are different than when I was in college.


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## taterhed (May 14, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Actually, no. I think the priority should be on the education itself, and whether or not the student truly learned something or not. And a two week delay for viewing the diploma isn't a big deal. Yeah, I understand the disappointment but it's...just a piece of paper.
> 
> More important concerns, at least to me, would be if the student has a job lined up post graduation? Do they know what career path (if only one, these days) they intend to pursue? Where they will live post college? How they will pay their expenses? Or, are they immediately pursuing a graduate degree (in which case, I'm sure they are aware of their graduation status)? The diploma is simply a means to an end, and the paper itself is unimportant...



Agreed.

Of course, this is the kind of thing you should be nurturing and encouraging--if your kid is not the self-starter type.


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## FLDVCFamily (May 14, 2015)

x3 skier said:


> I remember back in the day when I was in engineering school.
> 
> Each term I was issued a pack of IBM Cards (remember them?) that I filled out with my info and those were my courses for that term. If you flunked one, it was an automatic do over next year since the sequence was set for five years and there was no makeup or substitution.
> 
> ...



Yep, same here minus the IBM cards...engineering school, and if you didn't pass it you did it again due to the ABET sequence. There was no way for your parents not to know that you weren't passing (if they were funding it).

OP, didn't the parents ask to see report cards? I can't believe that the student made it 4 years before anyone realized that he was far away from graduating. Sounds like he was covering his tracks well or nobody ever asked him about being on track to graduate. Making a mental note of this for when my kids are in college...


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## WinniWoman (May 14, 2015)

Exactly true the above comments! When our son told us he was going to take Calculus 2 after getting a D in Calculus 1 (since technically it was passing) I knew there was trouble. Then, he gets an F in Chemistry and refuses to take it again or get help! Are you freakin' kidding me?!! You ain't getting a Meteorology degree with this plan and being put on probation because your GPA was just brought way down son!!

But like I admit- I was a helicopter parent and won't apologize for that. I knew what his grades were (when he first entered college, I had him sign a release that we would be able to see his grades- we were paying for the education after all and if he got less than a C he would have to reimburse us for the class- that's all.) No problem with us if he had to retake the class as long as he paid- at over $400 per credit I think that is a reasonable expectation! When he changed majors and wanted to stay up at school during breaks to take some extra classes, we paid- for the room and board and the class-no problem. 

I also might add we gave him no spending money. He had to work part-time, which he did at the local drug store. Needed to have at least some skin in the game. Believe me, I would have known if he wasn't going to graduate- but he did well and graduated with honors.


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## Elan (May 14, 2015)

Sounds more and more like the parents had their heads in the sand (if not elsewhere ).  If you're not interested enough to check in with your child occasionally, then nothing should come as a "surprise".

  One thing I learned from my kids when they were very young is that I can provide them with anything and everything they need, _*except*_ motivation.  That has to come from within and it's a very personal thing.


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## Phydeaux (May 14, 2015)

Elan said:


> Sounds more and more like the parents had their heads in the sand (if not elsewhere ).  If you're not interested enough to check in with your child occasionally, then nothing should come as a "surprise".
> 
> One thing I learned from my kids when they were very young is that I can provide them with anything and everything they need, _*except*_ motivation.  That has to come from within and it's a very personal thing.


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## bogey21 (May 14, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> I will also add that taking more time to graduate is certainly fine- IF you can afford to keep paying for more classes and more room and board, etc.



As I said in a prior post it took me 15 years (with 2 interruptions for military service) to graduate, but I paid for everything myself with help from GI Bill.  I think I saw where it took _[a certain polarizing figure ]_ 6 schools with breaks in between to earn the money to pay her own way.  Despite knowing how much I benefited from this I paid full freight for my kids.  They turned out fine but I wonder how they would have handled it if I hadn't paid.

George


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## geekette (May 14, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> ...Even so, I think most parents and relatives are much more concerned about the diploma itself than the student.


and good luck with that, as even in high school we did not immediately receive The Paper, it was mailed later (weird attempt to prevent hijinks during ceremony).  University graduation, we didn't have assigned seats nor cross the stage, there were many thousands of us.  Paper showed up via mail, Later.   Oooh, look, the empty jacket the document will eventually go into!

I've been out a long time, perhaps the paper is distributed same day now, but not in the 80s from my schools.  Good thing I didn't have any graduation parties as those interested in "the proof" would have been very disappointed.


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## geekette (May 14, 2015)

FLDVCFamily said:


> OP, didn't the parents ask to see report cards? I can't believe that the student made it 4 years before anyone realized that he was far away from graduating. Sounds like he was covering his tracks well or nobody ever asked him about being on track to graduate. Making a mental note of this for when my kids are in college...



It is a very simple matter to make your campus address your permanent address.  Um, well, it was very simple for me, not sure why it would be an issue today.


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## geekette (May 14, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> As I said in a prior post it took me 15 years (with 2 interruptions for military service) to graduate, but I paid for everything myself with help from GI Bill.  I think I saw where it took [a certain polarizing figure ] 6 schools with breaks in between to earn the money to pay her own way.  Despite knowing how much I benefited from this I paid full freight for my kids.  They turned out fine but I wonder how they would have handled it if I hadn't paid.
> 
> George



Completely do-able.  I paid for my own and worked full time before and during, saving from first "job" at age 13.  If you want it badly enough, you can do it.  In 4 yrs.  I came out with student loan debt (not a lot), but would never have amassed more than I felt I could comfortably "cover" over time.  Far easier to pay as you go, get loaned only what you really need to pay the bills.  

A lot of folks expect The College Experience and I simply wanted the education.  My way was much cheaper and I still managed to have some fun.  I just chose inexpensive fun.

Would have been nice to get the cliche brand new car at graduation, but I didn't get one of those until I was in my 30s, long after I paid off my loans and personal debt from school.


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## WinniWoman (May 14, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> As I said in a prior post it took me 15 years (with 2 interruptions for military service) to graduate, but I paid for everything myself with help from GI Bill.  I think I saw where it took [a certain polarizing figure ] 6 schools with breaks in between to earn the money to pay her own way.  Despite knowing how much I benefited from this I paid full freight for my kids.  They turned out fine but I wonder how they would have handled it if I hadn't paid.
> 
> George



I give you a lot of credit. I don't think our son would have went to college if we hadn't paid At least right out of high school. Maybe it was wrong, but we told him he had to go. We would have liked him to also pursue a Masters Degree, especially if he was going to earn the Meteorology degree, but we told him at that point he would have to take out a loan- we couldn't cover that. He chose not to go on after graduating with the Communications Degree because he did not want to spend the money on it and have a big loan. His choice. Maybe a good one.


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## WinniWoman (May 14, 2015)

geekette said:


> and good luck with that, as even in high school we did not immediately receive The Paper, it was mailed later (weird attempt to prevent hijinks during ceremony).  University graduation, we didn't have assigned seats nor cross the stage, there were many thousands of us.  Paper showed up via mail, Later.   Oooh, look, the empty jacket the document will eventually go into!
> 
> I've been out a long time, perhaps the paper is distributed same day now, but not in the 80s from my schools.  Good thing I didn't have any graduation parties as those interested in "the proof" would have been very disappointed.



No- right. The actual degree is mailed out weeks later. They just get the jacket.


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## Tia (May 14, 2015)

Oh that is awful!!!



vacationhopeful said:


> ...
> In discussions with friends near me, a union oil refinery worker was doing over time to send his daughter to a State University on a southern beach city... she dropped out 2 years before he caught on .... apartment, food, car, clothes, gas, tuition .... while he is pulling doubles (16 hours shifts) 3 or 4 times a week. When he confronted her, she told him he had to pay because* she was having fun.* That was over 5 years ago ... he still has not spoken to her....



Our dtr told us last semester wasn't graduating this one, needs another year. Guess we are lucky she told us.  adding that Her tuition doubled in three years, cost is not like it used to be 35 years ago, lots of shiny new bldgs/sports fields .

I have a cousin whose son was in college a few hours away from them. When cousin went to visit son one day found the apartment he was paying for  abandoned. Kid had moved out and moved back to home town area w/o telling his parents who were footing the bill. This kid was ''oh so smart, valedictorian but a loner'. Kid never went back and works on computers in a business for someone else now. Kid wanted his dad to build him a house on some property the dad had.... don't think that happened....

Another oh so smart cousin partied his 4th year and his dad said 'I paid for 4 years and the rest is on you if your intend to graduate'. Cousin got it together and graduated the following year.


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## Mr. Vker (May 14, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I think people who haven't been to college or who haven't been supporters of college students for a number of years would be surprised at just how little parental interaction or intervention is allowed.  Unless you know in advance to force your Age 18+ student to sign his/her permission for you to get access to grades, professors, deans, RA's, tuition records, medical records, etc, then you're not getting that access.  It's very easy for students to do their own things, and more common than not for things to happen without the knowledge of parents/guardians who need to know about them in a timely fashion.
> 
> We didn't learn about this or any other helpful parental tips from any of the colleges our children thought about attending, not at any of the Parent Workshops or Pre-application Visits or mailed literature.  We learned it from a very good high school guidance counselor who included parents in the process.  If you have a high schooler and his/her school offers any type of Junior/Senior pre-college assemblies which parents are welcome to attend, do yourself a favor and go.  If your student isn't on-the-ball or doesn't routinely share everything with you, which is probably more than half of a Junior/Senior population, pick up the phone and call the Guidance Dept yourself.  It's your only chance to be prepared for the bumps that are almost certain to come.




Yep, I never understood how my income and my wife's was REQUIRED to be used as a determining factor for financial aid-even though the student's are adults in all legal definitions. BUT, if I want to call to find out if they are passing or even going to class.... "We can't tell you that... they are adults. You have no right to know."  

After sending you $40k, I have a right to know.


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## Mr. Vker (May 14, 2015)

I ended up on academic probation once. Fortunately, it was sophomore year. I think most kids-boys especially-aren't ready for that "freedom". Grades based on two papers and two exams. Do everything on your own. No one making you. Its a culture shock to many. It was to  me. And my son. I always thought it was funny-In HS, you get up and get to school everyday by 8am-sometime earlier. In freshman year, its nearly impossible to wake for a 10am class 3X a week. How is that possible????

I once took a course pass/fail. Got a D-. Good enough for the "P".   Barely.

The problem is that people think everyone MUST go to college. People learning trades make tons of $$. College isn't for everyone. MOREOVER, four year college isn't for a decent number of college bound students right after 12th grade. They aren't ready to pick a major. For that commitment etc. Community college with transfers is a good way to start. $25K plus/year is a HUGE amount to pay for a kid to "find their way".

Personally, I am waiting for the tuition bubble to burst. Its not sustainable. Loans are too easy to get and break the backs of kids. Colleges are like 4* resorts now-better than some of our resorts.  Just to compete for the kids--and the $$$$$$$$$$$. It just has to stop. I feel blessed we survived getting our kids through!  I don't know how my mom sent me to a great private college as a single mom-no help from "dad". I did have scholarships-but I know it was hard.


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## hypnotiq (May 14, 2015)

Mr. Vker said:


> Personally, I am waiting for the tuition bubble to burst. Its not sustainable.



Agreed. When my daughter was born 5 years ago and I setup her 529 plan, it was trying to tell me that I would need $300k socked away for a 4 year degree in 2028 for a public university. 

Needless to say, I picked my own *reasonable* number and hope that 1) it bursts and 2) she earns some scholarships. 

Depending on her choices for what she wants to do, I very much plan on her at least getting the first 2 years completed at CC.  

But thats 13 years from now, who the heck knows how things will pan out.

I'm very fortunate in that I never went to college (short version: football scholarship to UGA, hurt my senior year of HS, took a year off from school, started at Microsoft at 20, worked there for 15 years, work for Amazon now).

My wife is about to become a Registered Dental Hygienist (22 days and 2 board exams to go) but she got her 1st two years of pre-reqs before starting the program out of the way at CC.


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## geekette (May 14, 2015)

Mr. Vker said:


> Yep, I never understood how my income and my wife's was REQUIRED to be used as a determining factor for financial aid-even though the student's are adults in all legal definitions. ...



This is especially a hardship on the student if parent says "pay your own" and will not emancipate you.  That was my problem, as I couldn't "qualify" for the loan amounts I actually needed, I qualified only for what wouldn't be covered by "parental contribution" that is assumed to always be forthcoming.

My last 2 years I couldn't get any loans at all because by then my sister had graduated so from appearances, what "parental contribution" had been going to her education would now be paying mine.

Wacky system.


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## puppymommo (May 14, 2015)

My daughter could be graduating this year after 3 years of college, due to college-level (AP/IB) work in high school and taking extra courses (she took 19 credits last semester). But she doesn't want to graduate early, especially since she is young (20). So she will graduate in 4 years with lots of extra courses in her major (Psychology) including a certificate in Child Forensic Psychology.

Between scholarships, loans and work she has received minimal help from her parents (ex is on disability and I am only working part time). She totally seriously told me that since we are not paying for her education, we didn't have the right to know her grades (which are all As). She still told me.


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## Elan (May 14, 2015)

Mr. Vker said:


> The problem is that people think everyone MUST go to college. People learning trades make tons of $$. College isn't for everyone. MOREOVER, four year college isn't for a decent number of college bound students right after 12th grade. They aren't ready to pick a major. For that commitment etc. Community college with transfers is a good way to start. $25K plus/year is a HUGE amount to pay for a kid to "find their way".
> 
> Personally, I am waiting for the tuition bubble to burst. Its not sustainable. Loans are too easy to get and break the backs of kids. Colleges are like 4* resorts now-better than some of our resorts.  Just to compete for the kids--and the $$$$$$$$$$$. It just has to stop. I feel blessed we survived getting our kids through!  I don't know how my mom sent me to a great private college as a single mom-no help from "dad". I did have scholarships-but I know it was hard.



  Yep.  The pendulum has swung way too far in the "you need a degree to succeed" direction.  One of my golf buddies who owns his own HVAC business makes piles more than I do with an engineering degree.  

  When people can't do anything for themselves anymore, which is quickly becoming the norm, being in trades will easily be as valuable as having a degree.  While I plan on my kids going to college, if they're truly motivated by something else that I see as a viable way to make a living, I'll be fully supportive.


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## LisaH (May 14, 2015)

hypnotiq said:


> Agreed. When my daughter was born 5 years ago and I setup her 529 plan, it was trying to tell me that I would need $300k socked away for a 4 year degree in 2028 for a public university.



$300K in 15 years is not totally out of picture. I came to this country in the mid 80s. Graduate school tuition then was $8000 a year (a private university). Today, the same school charges over $50K/year for undergrad.
A friend's daughter is going to NYU in the fall. $75K a year including tuition and living expenses. It's already $300K a year today 
However, I do believe that the current cost of college education is hard to sustain. Online college provides a formidable alternative and I wish it success. (Go Starbucks and ASU!)


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## x3 skier (May 14, 2015)

I probably had it pretty good in undergrad engineering. You had to Co-Op to attend engineering and my job was as an apprentice machinist for the first 3 years before getting into the design room. 

That Co-Op job paid enough to cover college expenses while living at home. It also allowed me to graduate as a journeyman machinist and a Mechanical Engineer. I always felt comfortable that if this engineering thing didn't work out, I had a great fallback as a machinist.

There's lots of schools that offer a Co-Op program in engineering, business and other fields. Most if not all are well paying and go a long way to cover the cost of school as well as giving a major leg up in the job market after graduation. A lot better than unpaid internships or heavy loans. 

Cheers


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## Gaozhen (May 14, 2015)

geekette said:


> This is especially a hardship on the student if parent says "pay your own" and will not emancipate you.  [snipped]



Or your parents didn't pay taxes for years (remote Alaska, long story, all clear now) so you couldn't even fill out a FAFSA! Not eligible to even ask for aid. (And to add insult to injury, have them start paying taxes and get caught up...the year you graduate. )

Anyway, I had to do college 100% on my own, got only one small student loan and paid for the rest with academic scholarships and by working multiple part-time or full time jobs while taking 18-21 credits. In the end I graduated with honors since I wasn't going to throw my own money away, and now have a great career, successful from the habits I learned juggling all the above. So....I complain about it, haha, but can't say I regret any of it.


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## geekette (May 14, 2015)

Gaozhen said:


> Or your parents didn't pay taxes for years (remote Alaska, long story, all clear now) so you couldn't even fill out a FAFSA! Not eligible to even ask for aid. (And to add insult to injury, have them start paying taxes and get caught up...the year you graduate. )
> 
> Anyway, I had to do college 100% on my own, got only one small student loan and paid for the rest with academic scholarships and by working multiple part-time or full time jobs while taking 18-21 credits. In the end I graduated with honors since I wasn't going to throw my own money away, and now have a great career, successful from the habits I learned juggling all the above. So....I complain about it, haha, but *can't say I regret any of it*.



Whoa, trickier situation!!  

Agree with the very last - I don't regret it.  That experience, and paying for it still years later at crappo min wage jobs until recession eased, didn't break me, it made me stronger.  

There is no fear in 'joining the real world' when you've been there since early teenhood.  It's also not a bad thing to be able to distinguish between wants and needs before you ever start college, no matter whose dime foots the bill.


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## Iggyearl (May 14, 2015)

*2 cents from a first timer*

This kid's story rings a bell for me.  A few glaring points stand out.  First - an 800 on the Math SATs.  That is not good - that's phenomenal.  Second, he's lived in a single for the last 3 years.  Something tells me he does not socialize.  Third, he comes home every weekend.  No fun being had at school?  This young man is gifted, but undirected.  He probably has no idea as to what he wants to do in life. And he is lonely.  His parents should know a few things - but they may not.  Who are his closest friends?  Does he have a girlfriend? (Or does he even like girls?)  And, did he pick his own major - or just drop into one.  I won't bore anyone with details, but I think life can be overwhelming - especially when your are faced with the freedom of adulthood.  I am 66 years old, don't own a timeshare (but could) and I remember my youth.  This kid needs a hug, a kiss, and an understanding adult to hold his hand.  He can have a great future, but someone should guide him.  Sort of what TUG is all about...


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## Egret1986 (May 14, 2015)

*Great first post!*



Iggyearl said:


> This kid's story rings a bell for me.  A few glaring points stand out.  First - an 800 on the Math SATs.  That is not good - that's phenomenal.  Second, he's lived in a single for the last 3 years.  Something tells me he does not socialize.  Third, he comes home every weekend.  No fun being had at school?  This young man is gifted, but undirected.  He probably has no idea as to what he wants to do in life. And he is lonely.  His parents should know a few things - but they may not.  Who are his closest friends?  Does he have a girlfriend? (Or does he even like girls?)  And, did he pick his own major - or just drop into one.  I won't bore anyone with details, but I think life can be overwhelming - especially when your are faced with the freedom of adulthood.  I am 66 years old, don't own a timeshare (but could) and I remember my youth.  This kid needs a hug, a kiss, and an understanding adult to hold his hand.  He can have a great future, but someone should guide him.  Sort of what TUG is all about...



I like what you had to say.


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## BocaBum99 (May 15, 2015)

BocaBum99 said:


> Wow.   My son is coming home next week.  He is a Junior.   Smart kid, but absent minded.  I could actually see him forgetting to tell me if he isn't graduating.  I need to ask him if he in on schedule to finish next year.  Thanks for the heads up.



Okay, my son came home yesterday.   As always, I spend a good amount of time talking to him about his year at school and what he learned.  This was a particularly good conversation because I feel like he has grown up a lot.   He is no longer the absent-minded kid that he once was. I am very pleased with that.   I asked him if he is on track to graduate and he told me that he will be finished with all of his course work by end the of the first semester of his senior year.   All that he has left is his year long senior project.   I asked him if he was going to take it easy and he said "no way,  I am going to take all the class I can and I get to take what I want."

I feel particularly good because he has had paid internships all 3 of his summers since going away to college.   I feel confident that he will be able to get a good job when he graduates.   I feel like I have done my job at helping him to become a positive contributor to the country.


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## WinniWoman (May 15, 2015)

BocaBum99 said:


> Okay, my son came home yesterday.   As always, I spend a good amount of time talking to him about his year at school and what he learned.  This was a particularly good conversation because I feel like he has grown up a lot.   He is no longer the absent-minded kid that he once was. I am very pleased with that.   I asked him if he is on track to graduate and he told me that he will be finished with all of his course work by end the of the first semester of his senior year.   All that he has left is his year long senior project.   I asked him if he was going to take it easy and he said "no way,  I am going to take all the class I can and I get to take what I want."
> 
> I feel particularly good because he has had paid internships all 3 of his summers since going away to college.   I feel confident that he will be able to get a good job when he graduates.   I feel like I have done my job at helping him to become a positive contributor to the country.



That is great! Sounds like he is an achiever. You never had anything to worry about with him! Must be a relief! Good reason to be a very proud parent! Congrats! You can plan to celebrate his graduation!

This is the kind of thing I always hoped for with our son, but we could never ask any questions as he would shut down and he would never volunteer anything. So we just had to keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best. He would have never taken extra classes he didn't need- he would have coasted. His only internship was unpaid and he had to drive over an hour one way to get to the job at 5 am!  

Thank goodness he turned out to be a very good person, even if he is not an ambitious one. We are grateful for that and love him dearly.


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## BocaBum99 (May 15, 2015)

mpumilia said:


> That is great! Sounds like he is an achiever. You never had anything to worry about with him! Must be a relief! Good reason to be a very proud parent! Congrats! You can plan to celebrate his graduation!
> 
> This is the kind of thing I always hoped for with our son, but we could never ask any questions as he would shut down and he would never volunteer anything. So we just had to keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best. He would have never taken extra classes he didn't need- he would have coasted. His only internship was unpaid and he had to drive over an hour one way to get to the job at 5 am!
> 
> Thank goodness he turned out to be a very good person, even if he is not an ambitious one. We are grateful for that and love him dearly.



After his Freshman year in high school, he had a 3.2 GPA.   This was mostly due to not turning in homework and putting in a very poor effort.   On a scale of 1-10, he told me he put in a 4 effort.   What turned him around in high school was that he got invited to apply to Exeter based on his AMC-10 and AIME scores.   Because someone told him that he was outstanding at something, it sparked him to work harder.   He got straight A's in the next semester and finished with a 4.11 GPA.   Some times all it takes is for someone (other than the parents) to see something truly special about a kid for it to provide the motivation required to do well at anything.

In the conversation with my son, he was especially proud of a project that he completed this past term in Mechanical Prototyping.   3 of his team of 6 wanted to do a simple design to ensure that they could get the project done on time while meeting the project specs.   My son and another student wanted to do something more elaborate.  He stood his ground and the teacher agreed to split the project into 2 sub-projects to be integrated at the end so that both sides could do what they wanted.  At the end of the day, his cam system worked and they reintegrated the project back into one overall design.  His team won the best engineered prototype by a huge distance.

What I was most proud of is that he didn't settle for what he thought was subpar work.   The words he used were "not on my watch"   He fought for his point of view, got his way, and it forced him to put in a tremendous effort to make sure he didn't get egg on his face for such a bold project and stance.  The most important thing he said to me is that he was 100% sure he was going to make it work even though his teacher said after his first design that it would never work.   He said he was sure because he felt that he could do anything he set his mind to doing.   He has achieved self actualization.

Here is the prototype his team built.   My son did the parts in yellow.

[youtube]Z7yXaY5r3HQ[/youtube]


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## Wonka (May 15, 2015)

*Thoughtless response*



Ken555 said:


> Um, wow. You have nothing to complain about. But you did. Absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Huh?  A complaint?   it was simply a statement.  It was a "surprise" that my son didn't receive his diploma.  It turned out it wasn't that bad (which I said).  So, how is that absurd?  It's hard to understand why you would respond like you did.  But, I guess your lack of politeness is part of your liberal arts education you're so proud of.  My son's graduation was from a small, liberal arts college.  So, I should have better understood the thought process.  Have a nice day.


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## WinniWoman (May 15, 2015)

BocaBum99 said:


> After his Freshman year in high school, he had a 3.2 GPA.   This was mostly due to not turning in homework and putting in a very poor effort.   On a scale of 1-10, he told me he put in a 4 effort.   What turned him around in high school was that he got invited to apply to Exeter based on his AMC-10 and AIME scores.   Because someone told him that he was outstanding at something, it sparked him to work harder.   He got straight A's in the next semester and finished with a 4.11 GPA.   Some times all it takes is for someone (other than the parents) to see something truly special about a kid for it to provide the motivation required to do well at anything.
> 
> In the conversation with my son, he was especially proud of a project that he completed this past term in Mechanical Prototyping.   3 of his team of 6 wanted to do a simple design to ensure that they could get the project done on time while meeting the project specs.   My son and another student wanted to do something more elaborate.  He stood his ground and the teacher agreed to split the project into 2 sub-projects to be integrated at the end so that both sides could do what they wanted.  At the end of the day, his cam system worked and they reintegrated the project back into one overall design.  His team won the best engineered prototype by a huge distance.
> 
> ...



WOW!! This is very impressive! He is going to go far! He is going to deserve a BIG graduation present! LOL! Excellent!


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## Ken555 (May 15, 2015)

Wonka said:


> Huh?  A complaint?   it was simply a statement.  It was a "surprise" that my son didn't receive his diploma.  It turned out it wasn't that bad (which I said).  So, how is that absurd?  It's hard to understand why you would respond like you did.  But, I guess your lack of politeness is part of your liberal arts education you're so proud of.  My son's graduation was from a small, liberal arts college.  So, I should have better understood the thought process.  Have a nice day.




Are you trying to make this personal? 

My point stands. Read the thread again.


Sent from my iPad


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## DeniseM (May 15, 2015)

OK - Let's stay on topic, please...   

Any more off-topic posts will be deleted.


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## Wonka (May 16, 2015)

OK. Have a nice day, Ken.


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## FLDVCFamily (May 18, 2015)

BocaBum99 said:


> After his Freshman year in high school, he had a 3.2 GPA.   This was mostly due to not turning in homework and putting in a very poor effort.   On a scale of 1-10, he told me he put in a 4 effort.   What turned him around in high school was that he got invited to apply to Exeter based on his AMC-10 and AIME scores.   Because someone told him that he was outstanding at something, it sparked him to work harder.   He got straight A's in the next semester and finished with a 4.11 GPA.   Some times all it takes is for someone (other than the parents) to see something truly special about a kid for it to provide the motivation required to do well at anything.
> 
> In the conversation with my son, he was especially proud of a project that he completed this past term in Mechanical Prototyping.   3 of his team of 6 wanted to do a simple design to ensure that they could get the project done on time while meeting the project specs.   My son and another student wanted to do something more elaborate.  He stood his ground and the teacher agreed to split the project into 2 sub-projects to be integrated at the end so that both sides could do what they wanted.  At the end of the day, his cam system worked and they reintegrated the project back into one overall design.  His team won the best engineered prototype by a huge distance.
> 
> ...



As an ME myself I love his initiative


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