# MVC Mortgage



## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

Hi folks.  My wife and I are about to pull the trigger on a MVC Destination Points membership (2,500 points) and I have a very specific question.  For those of you who financed directly though Marriott within the last year or so, how does the loan appear on your credit report?  Does it appear as a mortgage account or an installment loan?  A mortgage account is much more favorable on credit reports as there is a real estate interest attached thereto, whereas an installment loan could essentially be anything.  

Please advise at your convenience.  Thank you.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

You will Thank Us for finding TUG. 

Please do not purchase points from MVC. You will find that others will chime in behind me and further solidify my opinion. The 2500 points are will not permit you to trade into any resort worthwhile at all you will need to purchase about $45000 worth of points to permit you to get a decent vacation 1 x per year. In addition you will have to continually pay Maint fees, and the annual membership fee. 

If you have already signed the paperwork and are within the 10 day rescission period I urge you to rescind immediately. Some of us have converted our legacy weeks and participate in the points system. There is a really big rental market for points that makes it worthwhile for the legacy owners. 

I personally continue to have strictly the old school weeks that I trade. No Points at all. 

In your situation I would stick around here. READ, READ, ask questions, then make an educated resale purchase. 

You also have to consider the fact that you will never get your money back when and if you ever decide to sell your points. Marriott will not buy them back. Don't believe a word the salesperson may have explained. Marriott does not buy back the points at all.

Here is a good thread to read as well.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202758


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

Thank you for your caveat.  I completely understand your concerns, but have been a Disney Vacation Club owner (points based) for over five years and really enjoyed the points system.  I've done my homework and, respectfully, am not really seeking counsel on whether to buy at this time.  What I am seeking counsel on, which admittedly is very micro, is how the actual loan through MVC shows up on a credit report.  Again, thank you.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

Just a curious question then? 

What are your expectations with 2500 points in the Marriott system? Where do you plan to go and how often. How do you plan on utilizing your points. Perhaps you can share your research with us?

Not to hijack your thread but does anyone have an answer regarding the MVC financing?


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## benyu2010 (Dec 30, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> Just a curious question then?
> 
> What are your expectations with 2500 points in the Marriott system? Where do you plan to go and how often. How do you plan on utilizing your points. Perhaps you can share your research with us?
> 
> Not to hijack your thread but does anyone have an answer regarding the MVC financing?



Is there any other option to directly access Marriott Point if OP choose not purchase from MVC? I know resale, but it comes with a lot of hassles and hefty fees on top of your purchase price...what else?


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

Take a look at this chart: http://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/points_charts.pdf

My wife is a teacher, so we are limited on the number of weeks we can travel.  That said, with the ability to "bank" and "borrow", we will have anywhere from 2500-7500 points available to us at any given time.  The cash rate for Aruba around Christmas hovers around $700-900/night.  I can do an ocean view 1BR in Aruba for 4,525 points next Christmas.  What I would have paid in cash would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,600 for that room.  Granted, my numbers are not perfect here, but you can see how my ~$26,000 investment pays for itself, if you use the points wisely, in 5-6 trips.  And, since I am 36 years old and my wife is 33, will will hopefully have 40-50 years to use this, and then be able to pass along to our children.  

On the other hand, if we wanted to pack up the car in June and head down to Marriott's Fairway Villas near Atlantic City, NJ - we would only have to use 2,725 points.  For the 4th of July week in 2014 (Sat-Sat), this would be a $3,200 vacation.  

Yes, paying $1,200/year in dues isn't ideal - but once the loan is paid off (which I plan on doing quickly), it's a small price to pay for what you get.  Again, IF you use the points wisely which, since my wife is a teacher, we are forced to.

I hope this helps.  But, again, I'm really looking for an answer on the way the mortgage is reported.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 30, 2013)

Just be aware that Aruba weeks 51 and 52 will be hard to get.  The weeks aren't in the trust and you have premier members who will be wait listing for the few available weeks (that are deposited) at least a month before you can request the weeks.

You could probably rent the NJ week from an owner for less than $2500. - There is one on Redweek now for $1450.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 30, 2013)

I have never financed a timeshare purchase, but it SHOULD show up on your credit report as a mortgage, since that is what it is.  MVC can foreclose if you don't pay, which they could not do with an installment loan.  Same with your ability to deduct the interest on your tax returns.  What do the loan documents say?  If you sign a mortgage document, it is a mortgage.  And if for some reason it shows up on your credit report as another type of loan, you can get it corrected.


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

Fair enough - I was simply using Aruba as an example to explain my logic from a financial perspective.  I don't foresee us going to Aruba for a long time, actually as we were just there a few years ago.  Same applies with the Fairway Villas - just an example as I was asked to explain my logic.  I suppose any scenario I threw out there would've been met with some opposing point.


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## jimf41 (Dec 30, 2013)

Welcome to Tug.

I financed one of my timeshares for a short period about 10 years ago. While I can't say exactly how it appeared I seem to remember it was just a consumer loan. Like a credit card. I do remember that there was something in there about the minimum length of the loan. I believe I had to make at least three payments before I could pay it off without further interest accruing.

As far as the advice not to buy from MVCI well that's standard on TUG. I don't subscribe to it but most do. It always amazes me. What do people think would happen if everyone stopped buying from Marriott? I guess they just assume that their wonderful vacation properties will continue to exist if Marriott never sells another point.


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## presley (Dec 30, 2013)

I don't think you will ever find anyone on here who supports buying a timeshare that you need to finance.  To get specific answers regarding a developer financed purchase, you really need to ask the developer.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 30, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> Please do not purchase points from MVC.  The 2500 points are will not permit you to trade into any resort worthwhile at all you will need to purchase about $45000 worth of points to permit you to get a decent vacation 1 x per year.http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202758


This is a very presumptuous statement considering that you do not know the OP's needs and desires.  It is also very wrong on two counts.  First, maybe the OP wants to travel off season or shoulder season or use studios and 1 BRs.  Second, by buying a small package you are then able to rent points each year to fill out your needs. No need to spend the $45,000 you refer to.

I did not buy points and for us it does not make sense.  But if someone does not own a week that can be enrolled in the MVCI system, I would not dissuade them from buying a small points package and renting extra points when they are needed.  That can in the right circumstances be a smart purchase.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> Is there any other option to directly access Marriott Point if OP choose not purchase from MVC? I know resale, but it comes with a lot of hassles and hefty fees on top of your purchase price...what else?



From what I have heard and read around here you can buy a qualified resale week directly from Marriott that comes with Destination points. Not sure how many points that would get you?

Then you can augment with rental points and follow Mr Puck.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 30, 2013)

jimf41 said:


> As far as the advice not to buy from MVCI well that's standard on TUG. I don't subscribe to it but most do. It always amazes me. What do people think would happen if everyone stopped buying from Marriott? I guess they just assume that their wonderful vacation properties will continue to exist if Marriott never sells another point.


I agree with you.  What amazes me is the animosity behind many of these anti-developer comments.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> This is a very presumptuous statement considering that you do not know the OP's needs and desires.  It is also very wrong on two counts.  First, maybe the OP wants to travel off season or shoulder season or use studios and 1 BRs.  Second, by buying a small package you are then able to rent points each year to fill out your needs. No need to spend the $45,000 you refer to.
> 
> I did not buy points and for us it does not make sense.  But if someone does not own a week that can be enrolled in the MVCI system, I would not dissuade them from buying a small points package and renting extra points when they are needed.  That can in the right circumstances be a smart purchase.



As the OP already stated they are tied to the school calendar. I made a lucky guess.. So shoulder season is off the table.

I would still dissuade from buying a small points package because already the OP has not read all of the pitfalls of attempting to reserve during the school calendar. Again lucky guess for me. 

I would encourage a qualified Marriott resale that comes with DC points, and then rent.


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> From what I have heard and read around here you can buy a qualified resale week directly from Marriott that comes with Destination points. Not sure how many points that would get you?
> 
> Then you can augment with rental points and follow Mr Puck.



I have 0 interest in locking myself into a week because one of the weeks we have to travel changes every year in April and is based on Easter.  It just wouldn't work for us.


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## benyu2010 (Dec 30, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> From what I have heard and read around here you can buy a qualified resale week directly from Marriott that comes with Destination points. Not sure how many points that would get you?
> 
> Then you can augment with rental points and follow Mr Puck.



You are eligible to purchase an enrolled week via resale operation equal or less to the amount of your DC point purchase. No standalone official resale week purchase qualified you for the point program. DC Point has 1,500 min purchase requirement, the pairing week under that amount is likely to be very off-season, merely a point generator, which itself has little value from an usage standpoint. 1,500+ enrolled week may cost slightly less than 2,500 point package, but there are some nuances too. If your goal is minimal upfront cost, why not only buy 1,500 points package?

I am aware of Mr. Puck's success in reserving prime time via DC Point. There are several points to be noted, 1) He is Platinum and experienced timeshare owner 2) Point system is a crap shot and DC Point is in its infancy 3) You need to have a DC Point account to begin with...


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

presley said:


> I don't think you will ever find anyone on here who supports buying a timeshare that you need to finance.  To get specific answers regarding a developer financed purchase, you really need to ask the developer.



I find it interesting that nearly everyone on these boards is dead against financing a timeshare, yet I know for a fact that a large percentage of new buyers do in fact finance.  If I had an extra $26k laying around, I wouldn't finance.  But, I have a great amount of cash flow flexibility each month and the $340 payment will be easy for me.  Respectfully, I think whether or not to finance is a very individual decision and not one you can chime in on without reviewing one's entire financial situation.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I agree with you.  What amazes me is the animosity behind many of these anti-developer comments.



I would make an educated guess that 80% of the people that buy points directly from Marriott have never heard of TUG or done any internet research. 

Marriott catches plenty of fish in the sea. No need to fret about the anti-development language, however both sides of the story need to put on the table in order to make an informed decision. $26,000 mortgage is a major purchase for most people, and the sales force always skews the facts.


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## jimf41 (Dec 30, 2013)

presley said:


> I don't think you will ever find anyone on here who supports buying a timeshare that you need to finance.  To get specific answers regarding a developer financed purchase, you really need to ask the developer.



Very bad advice. I'm currently making about 13.5% on my retirement investments for the year. That's the lowest I've made in the last 5 years. If I were to buy another TS either retail or resale I would have two choices. Finance it at 3.5% with an equity loan or sell some of my portfolio that's earning 13.5%. I'll finance thank you.

As for asking the developer about specifics that's in the same category as asking them if buying a TS is a good purchase. They are all going to tell you the same thing. It's the best purchase you'll ever make. For some it is. For most it's a disaster as they really don't understand the long term costs associated with the purchase.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> why not only buy 1,500 points package?
> 
> ..



If I really wanted in I guess it is feasible. However from my experience I am happy with my legacy weeks since I have the benefit of traveling during any season, however I do avoid school vacation season.

When and if the time comes I may jump over the fence and convert. I am lucky enough to have the choice.


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

jimf41 said:


> Very bad advice. I'm currently making about 13.5% on my retirement investments for the year. That's the lowest I've made in the last 5 years. If I were to buy another TS either retail or resale I would have two choices. Finance it at 3.5% with an equity loan or sell some of my portfolio that's earning 13.5%. I'll finance thank you.
> 
> As for asking the developer about specifics that's in the same category as asking them if buying a TS is a good purchase. They are all going to tell you the same thing. It's the best purchase you'll ever make. For some it is. For most it's a disaster as they really don't understand the long term costs associated with the purchase.



If you're earning 13.5% on your retirement portfolio, please private message me the contract information of your financial advisor.


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## darius (Dec 30, 2013)

Peak,   

I just saw this thread and I thought I would chime in on the answer to your specific question which was does the loan show up on your credit report?    I am in a finance business and have worked with people who have Marriott timeshare loans which do NOT show up on the credit report, but if they are late "suddenly" the appear.   Things might have changed with the new DC points but that is what I have seen before.    

However, I would also caution you on purchasing the DC points (especially at the 2500 point level) for a few reasons -- and I have some suggestions that might help you make a smart decision to buy or not to buy...   

1)    I also am a DVC owner, and Marriott is not DVC.   With DVC you can pretty much get anything you want when you want it (provided you use the booking windows correctly!), with Marriott DC points it is harder to get premium weeks even at 11-12 months out.  

2)    I was strongly considering DC points until a friend and some great members of this site checked the properties that I wanted to book (They even checked up to 11-12 months out!) and there was nothing available, or maybe one  night. 

3)  The value of the DC points drops dramatically as soon as you buy (over 50% I believe).  VS. DVC holds its value (for the most part), or even goes up in some cases (of course, some DVC properties also lose value and they do expire which Marriott does not.   

Before purchasing, I would highly, HIGHLY recommend having someone check for you the availability of the resorts you are wanting to book at before you pay Marriott for these points.   

Having said all of that,  I own 2 Marriott weeks and really enjoy them.  I think the Marriott system is a great compliment to the Disney system.   

Best of luck in what you decide to do


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## benyu2010 (Dec 30, 2013)

jimf41, OP is gonna finance through developer and interest rate is likely much higher than 3.5%. 13.5% is awwsome rate, if you have the same rate through last 8 years, some of us may need your professional help to park some savings




PeakTek78 said:


> I find it interesting that nearly everyone on these boards is dead against financing a timeshare, yet I know for a fact that a large percentage of new buyers do in fact finance.  If I had an extra $26k laying around, I wouldn't finance.  But, I have a great amount of cash flow flexibility each month and the $340 payment will be easy for me.  Respectfully, I think whether or not to finance is a very individual decision and not one you can chime in on without reviewing one's entire financial situation.



Generally speaking, there are two types of buyers, cash or financed. Timeshare owners, especially, TUGgers are frugal bunch, it partially lost its purpose if your goal is to save $$$ through prepaid vacation package (timeshare). And timeshare financing is rather high compared to other big ticket purchase.

I am not a point owner, but some who are and financed may chime in...is it financed in house? Maybe developer is the best candidate to answer...


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## benyu2010 (Dec 30, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> If I really wanted in I guess it is feasible. However from my experience I am happy with my legacy weeks.
> 
> When and if the time comes I may jump over the fence and convert. I am lucky enough to have the choice.



I am with you on this...I have plenty of weeks, but point is a bit fancy to me at the moment... I've had lengthy conversation with Marriott sales (not in presentation&gifted setting) to have all my questions answered, however, I am still sitting on the fence...


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> jimf41, OP is gonna finance through developer and interest rate is likely much higher than 3.5%. 13.5% is awwsome rate, if you have the same rate through last 8 years, some of us may need your professional help to park some savings
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It used to be financed in house, but now, since they MVCI is a publicly traded company, all earnings have to be accounted for.  Therefore, the loans now show up on a credit report.  This is indeed new as my sales representative made the mistake of telling me that neither the credit inquiry nor the loan itself would be visible to the outside world, but we painfully learned together that both were untrue.  She meant to malice, but she had inaccurate information.


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## PeakTek78 (Dec 30, 2013)

darius said:


> Peak,
> 
> I just saw this thread and I thought I would chime in on the answer to your specific question which was does the loan show up on your credit report?    I am in a finance business and have worked with people who have Marriott timeshare loans which do NOT show up on the credit report, but if they are late "suddenly" the appear.   Things might have changed with the new DC points but that is what I have seen before.
> 
> ...



Thank you, Darius.  The salesperson claims a "95% confirmation rate on the first call" - whatever that means.  I'll see if I can find someone to help me look at availability and go from there.


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## darius (Dec 30, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> Thank you, Darius.  The salesperson claims a "95% confirmation rate on the first call" - whatever that means.  I'll see if I can find someone to help me look at availability and go from there.



Absolutely.  Please let us know what you find out.. I am sure everyone here would find that information useful as well.


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## benyu2010 (Dec 30, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> It used to be financed in house, but now, since they MVCI is a publicly traded company, all earnings have to be accounted for.  Therefore, the loans now show up on a credit report.  This is indeed new as my sales representative made the mistake of telling me that neither the credit inquiry nor the loan itself would be visible to the outside world, but we painfully learned together that both were untrue.  She meant to malice, but she had inaccurate information.
> 
> Thank you, Darius. The salesperson claims a "95% confirmation rate on the first call" - whatever that means. I'll see if I can find someone to help me look at availability and go from there.



Good to know

If resale week does not suit your need, DC Point is the ONLY solution. You are apparently over the fence now, why not start at least at 1,500 and let us know the answer of your original question. 

If I do, I will load all purchase onto my Marriott Reward Visa for reward points.


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## fluke (Dec 30, 2013)

*How about resale points.*

I don't have much time so  only skimmed the above posts.  So if this was already covered I apologize.

But if you are convinced on buying points consider resale points.  There are multiple old threads on resale points and it appears that those that have bought them get full usuage and rights.  There are some steep fees (probably $3000-3500, including closing) but much cheaper than direct.  There is a lising on ebay now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-500-MARRI...61351549305?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3cd9c42979


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## jimf41 (Dec 30, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> If you're earning 13.5% on your retirement portfolio, please private message me the contract information of your financial advisor.





benyu2010 said:


> jimf41, OP is gonna finance through developer and interest rate is likely much higher than 3.5%. 13.5% is awwsome rate, if you have the same rate through last 8 years, some of us may need your professional help to park some savings



If you guys couldn't make 10%+ in the market in the last 5 years without the help of an advisor then just park you money in treasuries and enjoy your 1%. You have to really look hard to find a sound established US corporation that has lost money in that period. The Brits haven't done too badly either. You don't need an advisor to get 4-5% return that most of them say is good.

Take a look at CAT, DEO, PLC, PFE or MRK and look at the price in 2009 vrs the price today. Not only did they increase, in the case of DEO it tripled, but they paid great dividends along the way. When you invest you have to leave your conscience at the door. BP was a great buy in the summer of 2010. Did anybody really think the worlds 3rd largest corporation backed by the British government was going out of business?

I had a specific reason for buying each one of the above stocks. It's no secret, no insider trading stuff just plain ol' common sense. PM me if you want more info.


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## NJMOM2 (Dec 30, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> I have 0 interest in locking myself into a week because one of the weeks we have to travel changes every year in April and is based on Easter.  It just wouldn't work for us.



Welcome to TUGS.

Most Marriott weeks are *floating weeks*.  My OceanWatch Gold week includes weeks from the beginning of March until mid May (always Easter week) and mid August until mid September.  The last two years Interval offered me an Accommodation Certificate (extra week of vacations for exchange fee) if I deposited the Easter week.

FYI - I bought my OceanWatch resale for $6000 which is probably close to $20k less than what Marriott was selling it for at that the time of my purchase.


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## BobG7734 (Dec 30, 2013)

The OP had a simple question and not looking for all of the advice which was given....to answer the original question, the financing through MVCI will show as a mortgage and not a revolving credit line.

Just an aside, since the spin off of MVCI from Marriott resulted in a very successful company and one we should be happy to be part of and one in which the ROI on an original (and current) investment in the stock (symbol VAC) has been excellent!


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## Deej82 (Dec 30, 2013)

Back to the OP's question.. the MVCI loan shows up as a Conventional Real Estate loan on a credit report...


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## Johnfi (Dec 30, 2013)

I can also confirm that my purchase back in Dec 2011 shows on a credit report as a mortgage and I also get an IRS 1098 mortgage interest form.  I was one of the last deeded owner purchases I believe.  I’m not sure if the loan type/status changed now that it’s the trust and pure point owners.

-John


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## bastroum (Dec 30, 2013)

Johnfi said:


> I can also confirm that my purchase back in Dec 2011 shows on a credit report as a mortgage and I also get an IRS 1098 mortgage interest form.  I was one of the last deeded owner purchases I believe.  I’m not sure if the loan type/status changed now that it’s the trust and pure point owners.
> 
> -John



Points purchase mortgage shows as real estate loan.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

There is enough historical evidence here to educate the op and prove that a mortgage for DC points from Marriott is not a wise use of vacation funds.

The op has the answer regarding the mortgage. 

He arrived here and I and other s have provided answers from our experience and wisdom. 

I wish the Op luck in his decision. Please do share your outcome.

For all of the naysayers.... Yes someone has to pay full freight in order to enjoy the Marriott fruits.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 30, 2013)

Ahhh, the perils of posting on a public forum. Ask a simple question and you certainly will get a far from simple answer. It is what it is, this is a public forum and you will get responses far from what you were looking for. Could we really live with ourselves if we didn't provide what we deem as important advice. Do we really want you coming back six months from now complaining that the system is working as you thought it would when we could have possibly saved you from these early on?

I can't answer the specific question, since we have never financed through Marriott. However, the advice others are dishing out, while perhaps not welcomed, isn't bad advice. In fact it is very good advice. Financing a luxury purchase is never usually a good idea. Sure you might be able to get a better return by having your money in the market instead of tied up in a timeshare. If we were taking up this subject back in 2007, I am sure we would have rather paid cash, or not bought at all. Any financial adviser would be wise to recommend that any luxury purchase be paid with cash. If you have to finance it, you don't really have the money to afford it. You don't NEED a timeshare, it is a WANT. Thus you should be paying cash.

That said, if everyone did that, there wouldn't be very many timeshares being sold. So if you want the timeshare and don't have the cash, then financing is really the only option. However there may be ways you can save money over buying full freight from the developer. You will find a very anti developer sentiment on TUG. There are reasons for that, buying from the developer is expensive. You can pay 100% buying from the developer, or instead pay 5, 10, 25, or 50 cents on the dollar buying resale. Would you rather pay $100 for something or $50 for essentially the same thing? There are some limitations on owning resale, but most don't consider the price difference to be worth those extra perks.

You mentioned that you owned DVC and like the point system there. While the DC program is flexible like DVC, there are some differences. Namely Home Resort Priority. I know with DVC you have a period of time where only people that own points at a certain resort can reserve at that resort. Then at a certain point in time anyone can book in to that resort. Marriott isn't like that. There is no real home resort. You own a small slice of the trust. You can book as a trust owner in to inventory that is in the trust and if something you want isn't there you can book through the exchange company. So there is somewhat of a home resort advantage in that you get priority in to trust only inventory, but you still don't have any advantage to book in to any single resort.

Also consider the expense. You are paying $1075 per year in MFs. If you bank and borrow to get to 7,500 points, you are paying $3,225 and only getting to travel once every three years. Consider that you could buy a great week somewhere for about half of what you are planning to outlay to Marriott and trade it through Interval International for probably half that amount.

Being tied to school schedules is hard. Trading or even booking in to a home resort isn't an easy task. It takes a lot of work and making sure you are online and on the phone to book at 12 months out. DC inventory is a little more flexible, you may not need to be online right at the moment inventory is released. This is because inventory is moving in and out of the system all the time. You can wait-list, for a reservation, which makes it easier. Though you can do the same when wanting to trade through II by placing a request. Though peak season trades are never easy but many people are successful getting them if they are offering up a great week to trade.

The TUG mantra is to buy a week when and where you want to travel. This is usually the sure fire way to get where you want to go. However if flexibility and booking stays less than seven nights is what you want, DC points right now is really the only option, just realize that you pay a huge premium to get that flexibility.


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## billymach4 (Dec 30, 2013)

Dioxide,

As always, well said.


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## MikeB2620 (Dec 30, 2013)

It will show up as an installment loan. As a banking consultant, I have seen lots of credit reports.


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## puckmanfl (Dec 30, 2013)

good evening....

Who is this Mr. Puck person????  :whoopie:


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## benyu2010 (Dec 31, 2013)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening....
> 
> Who is this Mr. Puck person????  :whoopie:



Score any good one lately?


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## billymach4 (Dec 31, 2013)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening....
> 
> Who is this Mr. Puck person????  :whoopie:



Puck is the master of reverse skim. Scoring a goal!


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## benyu2010 (Dec 31, 2013)

Dioxide45, your points of timeshare are well taken.  However, I think the opinions given in this thread are very subjective and some are not quite necessary or good advise.

1) everyone's (feel of) need varies. Some are financially conservative and others feel the quality of life is top priority;
2) individual financial circumstance is different, and result different spending pattern and habit;
3) timeshare is a commodity and everyone values it's usage differently. The pricing for the object is tricky than it appears;
4) a post for eBay reseller w/ spotty record on TUG's listing vs Marriott direct retail is apple and orange

After all, timeshare is not fully understood by most if not all posters. We all know some, more or less, based on our largely secondhand knowledge from wall of cave. It is helpful and encouraged to share the facts we knew of, but accompanied (strong) opinion may not be as useful as the facts we present, and some may be even counterproductive.

Just two cents of one-year TUG member


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> As the OP already stated they are tied to the school calendar. I made a lucky guess.. So shoulder season is off the table.


Shoulder season depends on the resort.  Ski resorts in June is shoulder season, just as one example.  There are also other examples.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> I would make an educated guess that 80% of the people that buy points directly from Marriott have never heard of TUG or done any internet research.
> 
> Marriott catches plenty of fish in the sea. No need to fret about the anti-development language, however both sides of the story need to put on the table in order to make an informed decision. $26,000 mortgage is a major purchase for most people, and the sales force always skews the facts.



I don't disagree with this.  It is the ANIMOSITY that bothers me.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> It used to be financed in house, but now, since they MVCI is a publicly traded company, all earnings have to be accounted for.  Therefore, the loans now show up on a credit report.  This is indeed new as my sales representative made the mistake of telling me that neither the credit inquiry nor the loan itself would be visible to the outside world, but we painfully learned together that both were untrue.  She meant to malice, but she had inaccurate information.



This was never true, at least in most cases.  I have never personally financed a timeshare purchase but I worked for a long time in the financial services industry and this comes from firsthand knowledge.  Marriott historically financed the timeshares but then sold most or all of the loans to a third party, just like a typical real estate lender.  (The buyers of these loans consider them to be high quality because the typical timeshare buyer is more affluent than the average.)  Marriott may not have placed them on a credit report (I don't know) but I guarantee you that the buyers f the loans have always done so routinely.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 31, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> This was never true, at least in most cases.  I have never personally financed a timeshare purchase but I worked for a long time in the financial services industry and this comes from firsthand knowledge.  Marriott historically financed the timeshares but then sold most or all of the loans to a third party, just like a typical real estate lender.  (The buyers of these loans consider them to be high quality because the typical timeshare buyer is more affluent than the average.)  Marriott may not have placed them on a credit report (I don't know) but I guarantee you that the buyers f the loans have always done so routinely.



I am not sure what a buyer of the mortgage has to do with reporting to the credit bureau. Credit reporting is the responsibility of the servicer of the loan. That responsibility still lies with Marriott Vacation Club. Marriott continues to service the loan even if they bundle them in to a mortgage backed security and sell them to an investor or group of investors


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## billymach4 (Dec 31, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I don't disagree with this.  It is the ANIMOSITY that bothers me.




_I would make an educated guess that 80% of the people that buy points directly from Marriott have never heard of TUG or done any internet research.

Marriott catches plenty of fish in the sea. No need to fret about the anti-development language, however both sides of the story need to put on the table in order to make an informed decision. $26,000 mortgage is a major purchase for most people, and the sales force always skews the facts.
_

Well be that as it may. You may feel I am slamming Marriott sales, or the Marriott product of points. Not sure what you take offense to? But that is your problem my friend. Marriott tried to shake me down years ago... Then I found TUG where the majority of folks here agree with the same mindset. 

Buy resale, avoid direct developer purchases, buy where you like to vacation.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 31, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I don't disagree with this.  It is the ANIMOSITY that bothers me.



I don't think it is fair to try to interpret emotion from written posts. Perhaps we can assume the emotion, but we need to take a step back and remember that a lot is lost when you are not talking with someone face to face.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 31, 2013)

While it might not be fair to try to interpret emotion in posts, I think it's unfair to completely disregard what a person plainly states in his/her posts.  This OP asked his/her question very clearly yet still a few of the answers were the equivalent of him/her being beaten about the head with what is, sadly IMO, an anti-developer mindset that prevails on TUG.

It's not necessary to go to those lengths to educate people about timeshares.  It's also not necessary to make blanket statements that do not speak to the mindset of, and in fact are sometimes blatantly insulting to, a significant number of posters here regardless of whether they're in the minority.

Thank you to the folks who welcomed this OP with specific answers to his/her question as well as to the folks whose replies included consideration that for a small subset of folks, their comfort level with and desire for developer-direct purchases might be a higher priority for them than for others.


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## BobG7734 (Dec 31, 2013)

Well said SueDon.

Happy New Year


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think it is fair to try to interpret emotion from written posts. Perhaps we can assume the emotion, but we need to take a step back and remember that a lot is lost when you are not talking with someone face to face.



I was not referring to the specific post in this thread.  I am referring to the many posts we often see on TUG.  And you don't have to infer much when highly emotionally charged adjectives (liar, bad faith, unconscionable, fraudulent and much worse) are continually being used by posters here to describe the company and its business model.  The mob probably gets more favorable reviews on its motives.  (Just kidding on the last statement.)


----------



## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> While it might not be fair to try to interpret emotion in posts, I think it's unfair to completely disregard what a person plainly states in his/her posts.  This OP asked his/her question very clearly yet still a few of the answers were the equivalent of him/her being beaten about the head with what is, sadly IMO, an anti-developer mindset that prevails on TUG.
> 
> It's not necessary to go to those lengths to educate people about timeshares.  It's also not necessary to make blanket statements that do not speak to the mindset of, and in fact are sometimes blatantly insulting to, a significant number of posters here regardless of whether they're in the minority.
> 
> Thank you to the folks who welcomed this OP with specific answers to his/her question as well as to the folks whose replies included consideration that for a small subset of folks, their comfort level with and desire for developer-direct purchases might be a higher priority for them than for others.



Thank you for this post.


----------



## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> _I would make an educated guess that 80% of the people that buy points directly from Marriott have never heard of TUG or done any internet research.
> 
> Marriott catches plenty of fish in the sea. No need to fret about the anti-development language, however both sides of the story need to put on the table in order to make an informed decision. $26,000 mortgage is a major purchase for most people, and the sales force always skews the facts.
> _
> ...



I did not infer a lot of animosity in your post, despite the reference to Marriott trying to "shake you down".  See my post #14.  In that post I was speaking generally about many TUG postings over a long period of time.  I was commenting on another post there and it was in no way directed at you.  And my post #46 actually agreed with most of your substance.  I repeated there what bothers me--animosity, which referred back to the point I made in post #14.  If you interpreted this as slamming you personally and your specific post, you are mistaken.  And that (to use your words) is your problem my friend.


----------



## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure what a buyer of the mortgage has to do with reporting to the credit bureau. Credit reporting is the responsibility of the servicer of the loan. That responsibility still lies with Marriott Vacation Club. Marriott continues to service the loan even if they bundle them in to a mortgage backed security and sell them to an investor or group of investors



Well.....a little education seems to be in order.  Yes, the mortgage servicer actually administratively makes the reports to the credit bureau, but they are required to do so by the purchase contract when the loans are sold.  It is something that the buyer routinely insists on.  So the point I was making is that regardless of whether Marriott reported the loans before they were sold (I suspect they did but have no specific knowledge), they would be reporting them once they are sold.


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## Luckybee (Dec 31, 2013)

PeakTek78 said:


> Thank you, Darius.  The salesperson claims a "95% confirmation rate on the first call" - whatever that means.  I'll see if I can find someone to help me look at availability and go from there.



In the spirit of the holiday season is there someone on here who has trust points who could offer to assist the OP in checking out availability ? 

It's pretty safe to assume based on previous threads that having to book around school holidays will be difficult for the op to begin with. I'd be shocked if the "95%" figure would hold up for virtually any popular destination in either trust or weeks(unless one is a multiple week owner). I know it wouldn't be the case for Aruba where we own. Ilene can tell you since she generally gets 51/52 that there are owners who have owned for yrs that are no longer getting the weeks they want without having some type of priority. 

As an aside Peak, I may have misread your earlier post but when someone mentioned weeks and the $ you could save with resale you indicated that it wouldn't work for you because the weeks you can travel chg. Just an FYI that with many M properties there are very few fixed weeks . At the Aruba Ocean Club as an example all weeks are either gold or platinum. you simply buy the season and go from there. So if Easter moves so too does the week you try to book. Resale prices for Aruba are still down so it might be worthy of your consideration if Aruba is something your considering in the future. In the meantime you'd have an extremely healthy trader. We are always able to trade with our Aruba Gold season weeks through Interval and even to this day continue to get 2 for 1 bonus weeks and most often get a 2bdrm for our 1 bdrm trades, and we've traded from out of season to in season as well.

The ability to buy points isn't going away anytime soon. Suggest sticking around for awhile, and learning all sides of the Marriott "game" then make your decision.


----------



## bastroum (Dec 31, 2013)

I have been able to book Weeks 51 and 52 using points each of the past 3 years at MOC on my first or second call. The reservations were made 13 months out with one exception.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 31, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> Well.....a little education seems to be in order.  Yes, the mortgage servicer actually administratively makes the reports to the credit bureau, but they are required to do so by the purchase contract when the loans are sold.  It is something that the buyer routinely insists on.  So the point I was making is that regardless of whether Marriott reported the loans before they were sold (I suspect they did but have no specific knowledge), they would be reporting them once they are sold.



I am not sure I need to be educated.... Though I take it you worked or work in the Mortgage industry? 

You are likely correct, though we aren't privy to that MBS purchase contract. I would expect Marriott to be reporting these loans to the credit bureau, regardless of any agreement with the investor on those loans. I am still not sure what PeakTek78 was referring to, I don't know what the difference would be between an independent MVW vs. MVCI under Marriott International. All earnings had to be accounted for before, just as they do now.

MVCI still finances in house as far as I know, They then bundle the mortgages and likely put them up for bid and sell them as a mortgage backed securities. It permits them to free up cash to continue to provide new mortgages. Exactly like the residential mortgage industry. Of course none of this really relates to the OPs question, other than the fact that they should be reporting the loans to the credit bureau.


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 31, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> While it might not be fair to try to interpret emotion in posts, I think it's unfair to completely disregard what a person plainly states in his/her posts.  This OP asked his/her question very clearly yet still a few of the answers were the equivalent of him/her being beaten about the head with what is, sadly IMO, an anti-developer mindset that prevails on TUG.
> 
> It's not necessary to go to those lengths to educate people about timeshares.  It's also not necessary to make blanket statements that do not speak to the mindset of, and in fact are sometimes blatantly insulting to, a significant number of posters here regardless of whether they're in the minority.
> 
> Thank you to the folks who welcomed this OP with specific answers to his/her question as well as to the folks whose replies included consideration that for a small subset of folks, their comfort level with and desire for developer-direct purchases might be a higher priority for them than for others.



I don't think we want PeakTek78 to turn out like stthomaslovers where in this thread he took great offence to unsolicited advice, took his ball and went home.

Of course this kind of goes back to the What would you do? Meet guy right after he buys at MGV thread. While many of us are willing to offer up unsolicited advice, it may not always be the case if we are in person.

I do understand that there seems to be a rather anti developer sentiment on TUG and perhaps this is the more outspoken group. Though I would think there are more developer purchasers here than resale ones, though perhaps they don't participate as much? Though even many people that bought direct ended up buying additional resale weeks.

Even if we don't know all the facts behind the OPs motives, I think it is fair to point out some of the perils and high costs of a direct DC trust point purchase. It is very easy to buy these points, but once you have them you are pretty much stuck with them unless you want to take a 50% hit on the purchase. The advice to rescind any developer purchase is also IMO excellent advice. Usually when people are coming here, they are here for education. There is a limited period of time to rescind, but you can go back any day and buy. Sometimes unsolicited advice is the best advice you will receive.


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## billymach4 (Dec 31, 2013)

BocaBoy said:


> I did not infer a lot of animosity in your post, despite the reference to Marriott trying to "shake you down".  See my post #14.  In that post I was speaking generally about many TUG postings over a long period of time.  I was commenting on another post there and it was in no way directed at you.  And my post #46 actually agreed with most of your substance.  I repeated there what bothers me--animosity, which referred back to the point I made in post #14.  If you interpreted this as slamming you personally and your specific post, you are mistaken.  And that (to use your words) is your problem my friend.



Thanks for the further explanation in your posts. As dioxide said the written word is easily misinterpreted from the spoken word. I take no offense.

For 2014 I want everyone to vacation early and vacation often!

Going out now to celebrate with family and friends.

Happy New Year to all!


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> Thanks for the further explanation in your posts. As dioxide said the written word is easily misinterpreted from the spoken word. I take no offense.
> 
> For 2014 I want everyone to vacation early and vacation often!
> 
> ...



And a happy New Year to you also.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 31, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure I need to be educated.... Though I take it you worked or work in the Mortgage industry?



I worked in the investment management industry, and our company actually purchased some of these MVCI loans as an investment for institutional clients.  I was in a staff executive role and not directly involved in these transactions, but I am aware of the basic facts from conversations with the investment people involved.


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## PeakTek78 (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, folks, I've been reading this all and I can't thank you enough for your help and...enthusiasm.  I thought you'd be interested in knowing that my wife and I did decide to execute the cancellation clause of the contract.  Here's what happened, and why I posted my original question: during the sales process, my rep told me, in writing, that there would not be a "hard inquiry" on my credit report, nor would the loan be listed on my credit report.  Again, when we financed our DVC interest, they did do a "soft inquiry" but the loan NEVER showed up on my credit report.  I liked this because it allowed me to finance our purchase without it counting against us for other big ticket items from a creditworthiness perspective.  We both have excellent credit and monitor it very closely, including inquiries.  

Anyway, at the 11th hour (and, to her credit, before the contract was signed), she informed us of her mistakes - that there will be a credit inquiry (our credit was already run), and once the loan closes, it will be listed on our reports as a mortgage.  We thought long and hard, I consulted this forum, and we ultimately decided to move forward anyway and sign the contract.  Well, yesterday, when going through the lending documents I noticed the monthly payment was ~$10 more than I was quoted.  Now, I wasn't as concerned about the $10 as I was about a THIRD mistake from my sales rep.  I began to wonder what else was misrepresented to me and began feeling very negative about the process.  So, I called the rep and she said "I'm not a CPA, let me have you speak with my manager" - the manager gets on the phone and explains that the higher payment (and, as a result, higher APR) is because of a $6 MONTHLY FEE that MVCI charges to withdraw the money from my account.  That's right, their making ~$17k in interest and whatever profit they make from the sale itself is insufficient; they also charge $6/month to literally take out your payment.  This was, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back.  I explained to the manager how disappointed I was and that it's not the $10/month, but the principle of not being informed of this earlier.  I'm in sales (software), and my worst case scenario is ever "surprising" my potential clients.  This was my third "surprise" and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.  So, I wrote a letter and cited the contract language and requested that they return our deposit within 20 days as per the contract.  We shall see what comes of this, but I feel good about our decision.  

I'm more and more intrigued by buying resale, but still think points would be the way to go for us.  I don't want to be locked in to one place for one week each year.  So, any words of wisdom from folks about buying a resale MVCI points contract would be appreciated.  We remain excited about the product offering itself, but fairly disgusted with our sales rep.'s seeming inability to tell us the entire story.  

Thanks again everyone!  Happy new year!


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## Fasttr (Jan 1, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> Well, folks, I've been reading this all and I can't thank you enough for your help and...enthusiasm.  I thought you'd be interested in knowing that my wife and I did decide to execute the cancellation clause of the contract.  Here's what happened, and why I posted my original question: during the sales process, my rep told me, in writing, that there would not be a "hard inquiry" on my credit report, nor would the loan be listed on my credit report.  Again, when we financed our DVC interest, they did do a "soft inquiry" but the loan NEVER showed up on my credit report.  I liked this because it allowed me to finance our purchase without it counting against us for other big ticket items from a creditworthiness perspective.  We both have excellent credit and monitor it very closely, including inquiries.
> 
> Anyway, at the 11th hour (and, to her credit, before the contract was signed), she informed us of her mistakes - that there will be a credit inquiry (our credit was already run), and once the loan closes, it will be listed on our reports as a mortgage.  We thought long and hard, I consulted this forum, and we ultimately decided to move forward anyway and sign the contract.  Well, yesterday, when going through the lending documents I noticed the monthly payment was ~$10 more than I was quoted.  Now, I wasn't as concerned about the $10 as I was about a THIRD mistake from my sales rep.  I began to wonder what else was misrepresented to me and began feeling very negative about the process.  So, I called the rep and she said "I'm not a CPA, let me have you speak with my manager" - the manager gets on the phone and explains that the higher payment (and, as a result, higher APR) is because of a $6 MONTHLY FEE that MVCI charges to withdraw the money from my account.  That's right, their making ~$17k in interest and whatever profit they make from the sale itself is insufficient; they also charge $6/month to literally take out your payment.  This was, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back.  I explained to the manager how disappointed I was and that it's not the $10/month, but the principle of not being informed of this earlier.  I'm in sales (software), and my worst case scenario is ever "surprising" my potential clients.  This was my third "surprise" and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.  So, I wrote a letter and cited the contract language and requested that they return our deposit within 20 days as per the contract.  We shall see what comes of this, but I feel good about our decision.
> 
> ...



I think in the end, you likely made a wise decision financially.  You can buy points resale for an all-in (with fees) price of around $5/point, much cheaper than you were purchasing from MVC.  Also, my suggestion would be to purchase 1500 points (minimum to have a base interest) and then simply rent the rest of your points on www.vacationpointexchange.com.  With renting the additional points, you only rent what you need when you need them and you are not stuck paying MF's on many points in the years you don't need that many.  The cost to rent is pennies above what the MF's would be if you owned them, and you didn't need to front the cash to buy them in the first place.  To me, its the way to go.


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## PeakTek78 (Jan 1, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> I think in the end, you likely made a wise decision financially.  You can buy points resale for an all-in (with fees) price of around $5/point, much cheaper than you were purchasing from MVC.  Also, my suggestion would be to purchase 1500 points (minimum to have a base interest) and then simply rent the rest of your points on www.vacationpointexchange.com.  With renting the additional points, you only rent what you need when you need them and you are not stuck paying MF's on many points in the years you don't need that many.  The cost to rent is pennies above what the MF's would be if you owned them, and you didn't need to front the cash to buy them in the first place.  To me, its the way to go.



Does anyone know if there are any limitations to being a MVCI resale owner vs. an owner who bought direct?  With DVC, there are certain privileges you do not receive if you bought resale - is that the case with MVCI and, if so, what are they?  And, can anyone point me in the right direction to buy point resales?  Thank you so much.


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## Fasttr (Jan 1, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> Does anyone know if there are any limitations to being a MVCI resale owner vs. an owner who bought direct?  With DVC, there are certain privileges you do not receive if you bought resale - is that the case with MVCI and, if so, what are they?  And, can anyone point me in the right direction to buy point resales?  Thank you so much.



As long as you pay the Initiation Fee of $200 per 250 points ($2K minimum), your points will have unfettered access, just as if you purchased them from MVC.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 1, 2014)

I to agree that in the end you made a good decision. As Fasttr pointed out, resale points are becoming more pletnful. Check out this thread to read about GregT's experience with buying resale points. Of course with a resale purchase like this, you will have to find your own financing if you need it. Do realize also that there are junk fees involved with a resale points purchase. These are on top of whatever price you pay the seller to buy the points.


$200 per BI (per 250 points) with a minimum of $2000
$300 Owner Education Fee
$95 ROFR Fee
$25 Transfer Fee (this may also be per BI, though I don't know for sure)

A second option to get points is to buy a hybrid resale week through Marriott and an equal amount of retail DC pionts. So if you buy a resale week that will convert to 2,000 points, you would also have to buy 2,000 retail DC points. This may be much more expensive than the prior option you were looking at, though it will probably permit you to finance through Marriott. Though with good credit and if you have low credit utilization, you should be able to find other cheaper financing elsewhere.

Another, and cheaper option, is to buy a resale week. Though you won't be able to play in weeks. For about the same as what you would pay for 1,500, or even 2,500 resale points, you can buy a fantastic platinum week somewhere that will get you fantastic trades. Though realize that more peak season trades are a little more difficult now with DC and they have historically been difficult as people tent to reserve to use their peak season weeks. So getting Summer, Christmas or Spring Break Hawaii will take some time to confirm a weeks based trade. Summer Hilton Head Island is also always difficult. Again, the same issue exists here that does with a resale points purchase, you have to find your own financing.


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## presley (Jan 1, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> I'm more and more intrigued by buying resale, but still think points would be the way to go for us.  I don't want to be locked in to one place for one week each year.  So, any words of wisdom from folks about buying a resale MVCI points contract would be appreciated.  We remain excited about the product offering itself, but fairly disgusted with our sales rep.'s seeming inability to tell us the entire story.



Keep looking and reading.  I started off very similar to you.  My first timeshare was a DVC retail purchase (not financed).  I ended up selling because I thought the overall cost was too high and I wanted to stay at non-DVC, which could be done much cheaper.  What I really wanted was Marriott points.

I asked around here and read here and it actually took me over a year to figure out the best bargain for us (if we wanted Marriott stays) was to buy a resale week that could be locked off and used as 2 weeks.  Comparing the cost of a couple weekend stays per year on points vs. a couple weeks buying resale and exchanging was very significant.  I didn't see a breakeven point looking out 10 years.

I bought a resale week (EOY) in one of the locations I would want to stay for $2200. and my plan is to use the one bedroom side for myself and use the studio side to trade in II.  Also, once you have a II membership, you can book getaways for cash stays for less than the cost of MFs.  I don't think I'd ever hit a break even point on vacations if we bought retail based on our needs.  With owning a week, our room will be vacant for several nights because we don't travel for a full week, but it worked out to be cheaper than buying points and cheaper than just paying cash for stays.


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## PeakTek78 (Jan 1, 2014)

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-500-MARRI...61351549305?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3cd9c42979


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## dioxide45 (Jan 1, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> What do you guys think of this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-500-MARRI...61351549305?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3cd9c42979



My issue with this auction is the seller. Use the TUG Google search to search for this seller, luky987. They have a less than stellar reputation. Another issue I have is with any seller that doesn't accept credit card for payment. That is a red flag to me. I think they intend to be on the up and up, but the closing company that they used in the past (not sure if they still use them) was horrible. With them having your actual cash and no recourse through a credit card company, it can become very frustrating.

I also think the price may be a little high. I think you can aim for something between $4.50 ant $5 per point. This is $5.80 per point. I also like Fasttr's advice to only buy 1,500 points and then use renting additional points to supplement your needs. Points can be rented for only about $0.05-$0.10 per point above the MFs. So if you need to rent 2,000 points to make up the difference on a reservation you want, you will only pay $200 more than you would be paying for the maintenance fees on those points. You would be paying an extra $5,000 for 1,000 extra points upfront, so it would take a long time to break even on that extra $5,000 instead of renting.


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## benyu2010 (Jan 1, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> While it might not be fair to try to interpret emotion in posts, I think it's unfair to completely disregard what a person plainly states in his/her posts.  This OP asked his/her question very clearly yet still a few of the answers were the equivalent of him/her being beaten about the head with what is, sadly IMO, an anti-developer mindset that prevails on TUG.
> 
> It's not necessary to go to those lengths to educate people about timeshares.  It's also not necessary to make blanket statements that do not speak to the mindset of, and in fact are sometimes blatantly insulting to, a significant number of posters here regardless of whether they're in the minority.
> 
> ...


----------



## presley (Jan 1, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> What do you guys think of this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-500-MARRI...61351549305?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3cd9c42979



Looking at their 5 negative feedbacks and 14 neutral in the past year, I wouldn't buy anything from them.  It looks like they lose paperwork and don't respond in timely fashion.

ETA: I see several similar contracts for sale on redweek.


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## Fasttr (Jan 1, 2014)

Reach out to this broker.  I believe GregT just purchased points from Jay, who is Judi's husband.  They seem to have an excellent reputation among the TUG world.  http://www.judikoz.com/


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## PeakTek78 (Jan 1, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> My issue with this auction is the seller. Use the TUG Google search to search for this seller, luky987. They have a less than stellar reputation. Another issue I have is with any seller that doesn't accept credit card for payment. That is a red flag to me. I think they intend to be on the up and up, but the closing company that they used in the past (not sure if they still use them) was horrible. With them having your actual cash and no recourse through a credit card company, it can become very frustrating.
> 
> I also think the price may be a little high. I think you can aim for something between $4.50 ant $5 per point. This is $5.80 per point. I also like Fasttr's advice to only buy 1,500 points and then use renting additional points to supplement your needs. Points can be rented for only about $0.05-$0.10 per point above the MFs. So if you need to rent 2,000 points to make up the difference on a reservation you want, you will only pay $200 more than you would be paying for the maintenance fees on those points. You would be paying an extra $5,000 for 1,000 extra points upfront, so it would take a long time to break even on that extra $5,000 instead of renting.



All good points.  Do you happen to know of a website or broker that specializes in MVCI point resales?  Compared to DVC listings, they are seemingly quite sparse.


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## ira g (Jan 1, 2014)

*Why buy DC points at all?*



dioxide45 said:


> My issue with this auction is the seller. Use the TUG Google search to search for this seller, luky987. They have a less than stellar reputation. Another issue I have is with any seller that doesn't accept credit card for payment. That is a red flag to me. I think they intend to be on the up and up, but the closing company that they used in the past (not sure if they still use them) was horrible. With them having your actual cash and no recourse through a credit card company, it can become very frustrating.
> 
> I also think the price may be a little high. I think you can aim for something between $4.50 ant $5 per point. This is $5.80 per point. I also like Fasttr's advice to only buy 1,500 points and then use renting additional points to supplement your needs. Points can be rented for only about $0.05-$0.10 per point above the MFs. So if you need to rent 2,000 points to make up the difference on a reservation you want, you will only pay $200 more than you would be paying for the maintenance fees on those points. You would be paying an extra $5,000 for 1,000 extra points upfront, so it would take a long time to break even on that extra $5,000 instead of renting.


Why not just rent points on VPE and have the owner make the reservation for you?


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## dioxide45 (Jan 1, 2014)

ira g said:


> Why not just rent points on VPE and have the owner make the reservation for you?



You could do that too, but there is a lot more flexibility to be had if you are at least a DC member and they can get the points transferred to you. It is far less of a hassle and you can make and change the reservation as needed without having to go back to the renter.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 1, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I don't disagree with this.  It is the ANIMOSITY that bothers me.



It seems from going back through this thread, that there seems to be animosity on both sides of the issue?


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## benyu2010 (Jan 1, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> Reach out to this broker.  I believe GregT just purchased points from Jay, who is Judi's husband.  They seem to have an excellent reputation among the TUG world.  http://www.judikoz.com/


This one specialized in marriott resale... There are few inventory in the aftermarket because program and points owners are relatively new...


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## billymach4 (Jan 1, 2014)

Peak,

Thanks for sharing your decision with us here on TUG. I admire your ability to weigh all of the options pro and con . 

As some have already mentioned the resale points market is slow to develop. Gregt is our resident expert on this for in points rental, and has also recently purchased resale points. I think I read in a recent post that he was about to embark on a cruise out of Florida. However when he does return I am sure he will chime in and contribute some advice.


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## billymach4 (Jan 1, 2014)

I wanted to also post the tread in where Gregt summarized his resale purchase experience.

In his posts he also has a link to the rental points site that Greg initiated soon after the points system was announced by MVC.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202225

Happy New Year.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 2, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> It seems from going back through this thread, that there seems to be animosity on both sides of the issue?



I don't see a lot of animosity in this thread.  The whole controversy started with my reference to the anti-developer animosity that is all too prevalent on TUG generally.  It had nothing to do with animosity between TUG posters.


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## PeakTek78 (Jan 3, 2014)

For whatever it's worth, I'm working on a deal to procure 2,500 DC points for $10,000 plus the ~$3,000 in junk fees.  That's $5.20/point.  To buy directly from MVCI would've cost me $29,900, or $11.96/point.  While I have "developer animosity", I can clearly see why some of you were so diligent/enthusiastic in your recommendations that I explore the resale market.  I'll keep the group posted.

I'm concerned, at this price, it won't pass ROFR.  So that's on my radar.


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## fluke (Jan 3, 2014)

I think you have made a good decision - Good Luck.


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## m61376 (Jan 4, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> For whatever it's worth, I'm working on a deal to procure 2,500 DC points for $10,000 plus the ~$3,000 in junk fees.  That's $5.20/point.  To buy directly from MVCI would've cost me $29,900, or $11.96/point.  While I have "developer animosity", I can clearly see why some of you were so diligent/enthusiastic in your recommendations that I explore the resale market.  I'll keep the group posted.
> 
> I'm concerned, at this price, it won't pass ROFR.  So that's on my radar.



Congrats and welcome to Tug, btw. We really are a friendly, albeit opinionated, group 

Don't worry about ROFR- it's always iffy, and what passes or fails today may have the opposite result tomorrow. The old adage goes- if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Hopefully it will go through, but don't up your offer just out of fear of ROFR- always make the best deal you can.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 4, 2014)

PeakTek78 said:


> For whatever it's worth, I'm working on a deal to procure 2,500 DC points for $10,000 plus the ~$3,000 in junk fees.  That's $5.20/point.  To buy directly from MVCI would've cost me $29,900, or $11.96/point.  While I have "developer animosity", I can clearly see why some of you were so diligent/enthusiastic in your recommendations that I explore the resale market.  I'll keep the group posted.
> 
> I'm concerned, at this price, it won't pass ROFR.  So that's on my radar.



There are a few entries for DC Points ROFR status in the Marriott ROFR database. You can get to it through the link in my signature.


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