# Up early   Saturday Morning and learned something new



## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

I was up early today to make a New Years reservation for a rental customer and a speculative New Years Eve reservation in New York for my rental business. 

My customer wanted 4 nights from Dec 29 at The Great Smokies Lodge (the one with an indoor water park, and I wanted a couple in New York for New Years Eve. 

Since the customer I have comes first, (and since a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush), I made their reservation first and we got the 2 bedroom they wanted. Then I went to New York..At 7:02 I got the very last reservation available. a studio (I wanted 2 one-bedrooms) for check in Dec 29, check out Jan 2

I learned a couple of things today:  It looks like New Years Eve in New York is going to be one of those really tough reservations like Mardi Gras New Orleans and  Bike Week in Daytona that completely sell out in the ARP period.  If it turns out that there is real rental demand for New Years, Ill be watching for the first New York contracts to show up in the secondary market.

I also learned that on March first (today) four days open up on the booking calendar, Dec 29, 30, 31 and March 1... I think I knew that already, but this was the first time I saw it for myself


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

That will teach you not to take naps.

I am impressed.  First availability I saw for seven nights for New York City for seven nights was October 27.  It looks like this location is going to be a gold mine for the rentor bees pretty much year round.

The only availability I saw in the VIP discount period for 3 nights is as follows:

Check-In 	Nights 	Unit Type 	Details 	Points 	Discount
Points 	
MARCH
03/17/2014 	3 	1 Bdrm Pres Res Suite 	

    Presidential Suite Open to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	198,000 	99,000 	
03/18/2014 	3 	1 Bdrm Pres Res Suite 	

    Presidential Suite Open to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	198,000 	99,000 	

Check-In 	Nights 	Unit Type 	Details 	Points 	Discount
Points 	
APRIL
04/07/2014 	3 	Studio 	

    Transaction Combines Two Reservations and May Require a Room Change
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	126,000 	63,000 	
Note: Transaction combines two reservations and may require a room change.
Click to see details.
04/08/2014 	3 	Studio 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	126,000 	63,000

A studio, if it lasts, could be gotten for 3 nights from a Platinum Member at $8 dollars per thousand.  Not bad, if they do not disappear to.  I do not think I would count on a upgrade showing up.


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## Don40 (Mar 1, 2014)

Ron, are all the units converted at this time.  We visited around Christmas and the were not even completed on the models at that time. Construction can be slow in NYC if you know what I mean. 
I thought of you when we visited as the limited number of units and a pretty decent location, walking distance to Times Square. I personally do not want to turn my ownership into a business, more work, but this seems like shooting fish in a barrel was really tempted at the rental potential.  Not only US, but really the world.:whoopie:


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

Don40 said:


> Ron, are all the units converted at this time.  We visited around Christmas and the were not even completed on the models at that time. Construction can be slow in NYC if you know what I mean.
> I thought of you when we visited as the limited number of units and a pretty decent location, walking distance to Times Square. I personally do not want to turn my ownership into a business, more work, but this seems like shooting fish in a barrel was really tempted at the rental potential.  Not only US, but really the world.:whoopie:



Maybe a Wyndham Point is a Wyndham point in this limited case.  Buy at Angle Fire and rent in New York.

Just checked Extra Holidays, I did not see this resort showing up here yet.

If RedWeek is a valid comp for comparison, there are only one or two for rent in a similar timeframe:

  	Dates 	Nts 	Price 	Unit View 	Bd/ Ba 	Occ 	 
	03/21/14 - 03/24/14 	3 	$900 ($300/nt) 	None 	1/ 1 	4 	View
NEW 	03/31/14 - 04/03/14 	3 	$900 ($300/nt) 	Varies 	1/ 1 	4 	View

A Mega Rentors dream I would think.


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I also learned that on March first (today) four days open up on the booking calendar, Dec 29, 30, 31 and March 1... I think I knew that already, but this was the first time I saw it for myself



Ron,

This is correct. With the 10 month window, wyndham counts that the day of the month 10 months out. So you may see nothing open up on the 31st of a month if there is no corresponding 31st 10 months from that day (i've been to lazy to actually look if this is ever a possibility). It works the same way with the 13 month window. 

Jason


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## vckempson (Mar 1, 2014)

When exactly does the 10 month window open?  Is it 12:01 a.m at the 10 month mark, or is it at some arbitrary time early the following morning?


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## scootr5 (Mar 1, 2014)

vckempson said:


> When exactly does the 10 month window open?  Is it 12:01 a.m at the 10 month mark, or is it at some arbitrary time early the following morning?



It's at 7:00 eastern for reservations via the website, or 8/9 eastern for the phone center.


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

vckempson said:


> When exactly does the 10 month window open?  Is it 12:01 a.m at the 10 month mark, or is it at some arbitrary time early the following morning?



!0 month stuff opens up at 7 am eastern, when the website goes live.  13 month stuff at 8 am when the call center opens (9 am on weekends) because you cant do ARP on the website (yet)


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I was up early today to make a New Years reservation for a rental customer and a speculative New Years Eve reservation in New York for my rental business.
> 
> My customer wanted 4 nights from Dec 29 at The Great Smokies Lodge (the one with an indoor water park, and I wanted a couple in New York for New Years Eve.
> 
> ...



New Years at Smokey Mountain is looking pretty good at this point.

under the resort photo and go to "Unit Information".
Check-In 	Nights 	Unit Type 	Details 	Points 	Discount
Points 	
DECEMBER
12/26/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Transaction Combines Two Reservations and May Require a Room Change
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
Note: Transaction combines two reservations and may require a room change.
Click to see details.
12/26/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Hearing Impaired Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Lockoff Unit
    Transaction Combines Two Reservations and May Require a Room Change
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
Note: Transaction combines two reservations and may require a room change.
Click to see details.
12/26/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A 	
12/26/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Hearing Impaired Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Hearing Impaired Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A 	
12/27/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Hearing Impaired Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	105,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	1 Bedroom Suite B-side 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	84,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Hearing Impaired Equipped Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	166,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	2 Bedroom Lockoff 	

    Handicapped Equipped Unit
    Lockoff Unit
    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	189,000 	N/A 	
12/28/2014 	7 	3 Bedroom Deluxe 	

    Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc.

	203,000 	N/A


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

Don40 said:


> Ron, are all the units converted at this time.  We visited around Christmas and the were not even completed on the models at that time. Construction can be slow in NYC if you know what I mean.
> I thought of you when we visited as the limited number of units and a pretty decent location, walking distance to Times Square. I personally do not want to turn my ownership into a business, more work, but this seems like shooting fish in a barrel was really tempted at the rental potential.  Not only US, but really the world.:whoopie:




I dont have any idea whats available to us timeshare owners at this time. (maybe lcml11 will call for us)

Im not sure this is going to be a bonanza for us renters unless we can get a hold of some deeded New York Contracts. I think weeks like New Years and maybe every week, will be sucked up in the ARP window. And since Im not willing to pay Wyndhams prices I think Ill have to wait until these start popping up on ebay.


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

something that confuses me about NY is the points chart, specifically the small print at the bottom






To read it it seems like any day check in, and any length of stay would be allowed, but in practice it I think its 3, 4, or 7 night stays, Fri check in or check out only


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## pedro47 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I dont have any idea whats available to us timeshare owners at this time. (maybe lcml11 will call for us)
> 
> Im not sure this is going to be a bonanza for us renters unless we can get a hold of some deeded New York Contracts. I think weeks like New Years and maybe every week, will be sucked up in the ARP window. And since Im not willing to pay Wyndhams prices I think Ill have to wait until these start popping up on ebay.



Ron, thanks for all the information and sound advice you have shared this morning.


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I dont have any idea whats available to us timeshare owners at this time. (maybe lcml11 will call for us)
> 
> Im not sure this is going to be a bonanza for us renters unless we can get a hold of some deeded New York Contracts. I think weeks like New Years and maybe every week, will be sucked up in the ARP window. And since Im not willing to pay Wyndhams prices I think Ill have to wait until these start popping up on ebay.



Gave it the old college try.  Got passed around to a whole bunch of different places.  The Hotel itself is taking the postion that they are the Hotel end and have nothing to do with Wyndham Vacation Resorts or the timeshare portion.  Heck, cannot even get to the sales staff through them.  

Even tried one of their managers, same effect.  It appears at this point, that they will not have anything to do with Wyndham people.  I even told them I was interested in coming up to visit the facility, could not even get a quote on a price once the 20 question routine was done and they figured out that I was interested primarily in the timeshare.

Found an early article on the Wyndham purchase of of the Hotel/Extended Stay property.  It indicated that 203 units were going to Wyndham Vacation Ownership to use as Timeshares.  If this is basically all of the units going that general direction, this is probably why there is no love lost between the current Hotel staff and the Wyndham Sales arm/Corporate Wyndham.


"Midtown hotel to become a time-share The 203-room Alex Hotel on East 45th Street will undergo an extensive renovation to emerge as the new Wyndham Midtown 45. It will join a handful of such lodgings in the city ... By Lisa Fickenscher May 2, 2013 1:21 p.m. ... Wyndham Midtown 45 The Alex Hotel at 205 E. 45th St. will become a a time-share operated by Wyndham Vacation Ownership. ... The Alex Hotel at 205 E. 45th St. is now a Wyndham property ... Beginning this summer the new owner will convert the 203-room hotel, renamed Wyndham Midtown 45, to a time-share operated by Wyndham Vacation Ownership, according to Jeff Wagoner, president of Wyndham Hotel Group  Management ... The Alex Hotel had been in foreclosure. Wyndham Vacation Ownership will purchase the property in pieces over the next three years, according to the company. The sale price, $115 million, was reported by The Real Deal in February.  The 10-year-old property had been positioned as extended-stay lodging, because half of the rooms are suites that are equipped with kitchens and living rooms. Some even boast multiple bathrooms and bedrooms.

"This property gives the company an incredible urban time-share opportunity and asset, which more and more time-share owners are looking for," said Mr. Wagoner in a statement."

Just called the Hotel again, they declined to give the Legal name of the Management Company running the Hotel at this point nor would they disclose the name of the company they are employed by.  My guess is that these are legacy employees at the Hotel at this point.


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## am1 (Mar 1, 2014)

If there were very rooms available at 10 months just think what it will be like when the building is fully sold.  Or if more rooms are to open up as we go maybe the building is oversold as of now.  

The amount of points required to stay there will not make rentals easy.  Hotel rates in New York are cheaper on the weekends.  Without a flexible cancellation policy it will not be easy to get the businessmen during the week.  

I plan to stay there next spring for a few days.  If there is availability.


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

regarding a rentors bonanza:

The nearby Marriott is $499 for Dec 29th and $799 for each of the next 3 nights. (plus tax) Thats for a hotel room that sleeps 4 (Wyndham's studio  sleeps 2) and as near as I can tell, no kitchen

The Wyndham hotel side says $379 a night plus $237 in taxes. This 4 night stay would be $1753

so $400 a night feels right to me.  My cost is 168000 points for the 4 weeknights. so profit is right about  $600, maybe $1000 if I do the cancel and rebook trick...Hardly a bonanza if I can only get a few of these each year


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> regarding a rentors bonanza:
> 
> The nearby Marriott is $499 for Dec 29th and $799 for each of the next 3 nights. (plus tax) Thats for a hotel room that sleeps 4 (Wyndham's studio  sleeps 2) and as near as I can tell, no kitchen
> 
> ...



Not bad though if one believes in making it one nickel at a time.  That is a lot of nickels.

The nickels gained could then pay for a bunch of Wyndham Points at Smokey Mountain or Towers on the Grove for the low MF at that those resorts.  These points then could also be rented using reservations at other high demand spots to add to the profit pot.

Maybe I am talking myself into changing my thinking on the issue of a Wyndham Point is a Wyndham point.


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Not bad though if one believes in making it one nickel at a time.  That is a lot of nickels.
> 
> The nickels gained could then pay for a bunch of Wyndham Points at Smokey Mountain or Towers on the Grove for the low MF at that those resorts.  These points then could also be rented using reservations at other high demand spots to add to the profit pot.
> 
> Maybe I am talking myself into changing my thinking on the issue of a Wyndham Point is a Wyndham point.



And the light bulb is now on


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## persia (Mar 1, 2014)

I suspect another hard one will be Macy's parade week in New York....


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## Bigrob (Mar 1, 2014)

persia said:


> I suspect another hard one will be Macy's parade week in New York....



I have been watching New York for awhile now... it is booked very solid for a lot of dates. But New Years - that should be the ticket.


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## lcml11 (Mar 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> And the light bulb is now on



I am a slow learner but I am beginning to see the light.


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## persia (Mar 1, 2014)

Bit too cold for my liking but how far is it from Time Square?



Bigrob said:


> I have been watching New York for awhile now... it is booked very solid for a lot of dates. But New Years - that should be the ticket.


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## ronparise (Mar 1, 2014)

persia said:


> Bit too cold for my liking but how far is it from Time Square?



less than a mile

google maps


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## Don40 (Mar 2, 2014)

Target market are travelers from all over, UN is not far away.  Business travelers not really the market.  Imagine you bring a family to NY and have a kitchen setup great for a few days.  Most non Americans are use to small cramped rooms and the one bedroom units are like apartments NY style.  The Amish restaurant down the street made the kitchen almost useless to me because the food was so good. Microwave to reheat was all we used.  Most people fail to realize how busy NYC really is.  I was shocked to see the lines at the Empire State Building, the staff said 10,000 visit per day during the season.  If I saw a line like that in Fl I must be at Disney.

I sound like I am a selling a business opportunity, but have no horse in this race just observation from my visit in Christmas before the conversion.


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## ronparise (Mar 2, 2014)

Don40 said:


> Target market are travelers from all over, UN is not far away.  Business travelers not really the market.  Imagine you bring a family to NY and have a kitchen setup great for a few days.  Most non Americans are use to small cramped rooms and the one bedroom units are like apartments NY style.  The Amish restaurant down the street made the kitchen almost useless to me because the food was so good. Microwave to reheat was all we used.  Most people fail to realize how busy NYC really is.  I was shocked to see the lines at the Empire State Building, the staff said 10,000 visit per day during the season.  If I saw a line like that in Fl I must be at Disney.
> 
> I sound like I am a selling a business opportunity, but have no horse in this race just observation from my visit in Christmas before the conversion.



The question is, will there be enough availability at 10 months to build a business here. or will I have to buy points deeded here for the ARP. (aint gonna happen) and is there enough spread between what the mf costs and fair market rental prices to profit


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## regatta333 (May 28, 2014)

ronparise said:


> The question is, will there be enough availability at 10 months to build a business here. or will I have to buy points deeded here for the ARP. (aint gonna happen) and is there enough spread between what the mf costs and fair market rental prices to profit



Is this resort part of Wyndham access?  If so, you should be able to book with those points at the 13-month mark.


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## ronparise (May 28, 2014)

regatta333 said:


> Is this resort part of Wyndham access?  If so, you should be able to book with those points at the 13-month mark.



no,  at least not yet


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## Bigrob (May 28, 2014)

I wonder if you could use RARP at 11 months?


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## ronparise (May 28, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> I wonder if you could use RARP at 11 months?



Wyndham hasnt started to sell points deeded in NY yet. The salesman there are selling Bonnet Creek with RARP


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