# should I go ahead or rescind? Marriott VC Kanaapali



## entersandancer (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm pretty new but am trying to jumpstart my knowledge. Went to a sales presentation last while on vacation in Maui.. I was pleasantly surprised by the product and the price offered, and what seemed to be low pressure sales technique. I decided to go for it and use the 7 day rescission period to get up to speed and cancel out if I found anything not to my liking.
Wow, the 7 days has gone by fast..and they are giving me at least another day to complete my evaluation, luckily.
What I am contemplating purchasing is an every other year flex week mountain view 2 BR unit in Napili Villas. I was also given a bunch of Marriott points ( I think about 75K), an almost $5,000 discount for signing up that day, two free luau tickets, and a certificate to give to a friend for 5 free nights as long as they attend a sales presentation. This is the unit that has the studio that can be locked off. The locked off portion if unused one year can be carried forward to the next year effectively giving you an every year stay if you want to. I was really impressed by the flexibility of the package and the units were beautiful. The whole deal came out to a cost of around 23,000-24,000 K..don't have exact figure in front of me. The maintenance fee will be approx 900. per year.
Here are my questions:
How can I find out if the maintenance fee will go up after more of the units are sold? This building is about 50% sold at this point.
Does anyone know if this place gets overrun with kids? I love kids but mine are grown and I also like peace and quiet when at the pool. There is apparently no adult pool here.
How do you know what to expect as far as special assessments?
How hard is it to get the week you want? I am testing the waters on this..I told them I want this same week, one year from now. They haven't answered yet but are checking to see if its available. If I cant get the week I want one year ahead I will take that as a very negative sign.
I have read about buying resales vs buying from the developer, but I like the perks you get from working with Marriott directly. For example, you have an account executive that advises you and helps you use your timeshare to meet your needs, including helping with exchanges etc. 
I love Maui!!
I like the flex week as I don't want to be locked into a certain week every year.
Any advice for a newbie most appreciated! Mahalo!


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## DeniseM (Jun 3, 2009)

Welcome to TUG!

You can buy the same exact thing on the resale market for a fraction of the cost - you SHOULD rescind immediately!

I am concerned that they have told you that they are giving you extra time - they are only obligated to give you the time stated in the contract - any verbal promises are worthless.

You should rescind ASAP!  You have nothing to lose!

More info. about rescinding - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493  (This was written for a different TS company, but everything else applies to you.)

Expect MF to go up 5-10% every year.

Maui is very popular with families, but if you go when school is in session, there will be fewer children.

Special assessments shouldn't happen for (20 years?) with a new phase, oh, unless there is a tsunami.  

At 12 mos. you should be able to get the week you want - so can the resale owners...

The "executive help" is just fluff - all owner can call and get assistance.

In case you missed it - RESCIND!


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## entersandancer (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank you for the quick reply! I didn't think anyone else was still up..Isn't it hard to know what you are getting with resale, and who you are dealing with?? That makes me a little nervous..


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## DeniseM (Jun 3, 2009)

It's not difficult at all - you use a licensed escrow/closing Co. just like you do with real estate.  It's their job to do a title search and do all the paperwork legally.  Of course you do your homework too, but it's not the shot in the dark that it may seem.  I have 8 weeks and only one was bought from the developer.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2009)

Rescind!!

Even if you're not convinced form what Denise said, there is another practical consideration. You get only one chance to rescind; if you don't rescind that decision not to rescind is final.

If you do rescind, though, you can always go back to Marriott and buy from them again if, after doing additional research, you should decide that is the best course for you.  IOW, by rescinding you keep all of your options.  By not rescinding you lose options.

*****

Our first purchase was also Marriott, in Kaua'i.  We rescinded, and have never regretted that decision.  

We wound up buying at another timeshare in Kaua'i, but where we bought is irrelevant.  By rescinding we had time to do more research and had we still been convinced that the Marriott on Kaua'i was the best place for us we could always have bought there.


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## ecwinch (Jun 3, 2009)

You need more time to research this major purchase decision. The only way to get more time is to rescind. 

Rescind, and then take the proper amount of time to make an informed purchase decision. You are not welching out on a deal. You are exercising your legal right to take more time to research this decision. 

The deal you have right now will still be there in a week. You are losing nothing, and are gaining the time it takes to research this properly.


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## Keitht (Jun 3, 2009)

As a rule of thumb, if you are asking the question you should rescind.  As has been said previously - you only have one opportunity to rescind but you can purchase at any time.


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## Passepartout (Jun 3, 2009)

RESCIND! If you can.I am concerned that they gave you "1 more day" to decide. This sounds like just another tactic to delay you beyond the legally binding 7-day period stated in the contract. 

If you are able to dodge this bullet, come back. You will get more than your money-and time's worth of advice.

Good Luck! And follow the recission instructions in your contract precisely.

Jim Ricks


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## Stricky (Jun 3, 2009)

RECIND

RECIND

RECIND

Listen to everyone.

Look at the resales on this site and the resales on redweek. 

If two weeks from now you decide you really like the deal they gave you, they will give you the same deal again. They are desperate for sales and their "if you buy it today" techniques are b.s.


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## entersandancer (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank you every one for the quick replies. The salesperson is now saying oops I made a mistake we actually cannot extend the time...then she said I had until "1:59 PM tonight" Weds, but didn't say what time zone (we are 3 hrs later where I live) and 1:59 would not be "tonight"...
I'm assuming that is their tie zome which would be 4:59 my time- so I have to check my docs and hope a fax will work or PM today..
sigh
they also still havent given me an answer on if I could get the week in beginning of June 2010 that I requested...that has been dragging on for days..


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2009)

michele1 said:


> Thank you every one for the quick replies. The salesperson is now saying oops I made a mistake we actually cannot extend the time...then she said I had until "1:59 PM tonight" Weds, but didn't say what time zone (we are 3 hrs later where I live) and 1:59 would not be "tonight"...
> I'm assuming that is their tie zome which would be 4:59 my time- so I have to check my docs and hope a fax will work or PM today..
> sigh
> they also still havent given me an answer on if I could get the week in beginning of June 2010 that I requested...that has been dragging on for days..



Your package almost certainly contains a piece of paper that says that anything you were told that is not in written contract documents is not binding.  Unless you have something in writing that says they are extending the rescission time, I think you're out of luck if you take them up on their generous "offer".

I agree that this sounds as if the sales person was trying to deke you into not rescinding within the allowed time.  Of course, that's a pretty shady trick and is the type of thing that Mariott generally avoids. So I'm not surprised the sales person is backpedaling.

****

*Pay very close attention here.*  It is critical that you get out your contract, find the part about rescission, and follow those procedures *precisely*.  Don't assume anything. Don't rely on what they are telling you.  Do what your contract says you need to do.

Hawai'i law has a procedure regarding rescission to which your contract needs to conform.  IIRC, the state even has a form you can use. You might see if you can find it. Right now I'm trying to open links to the Real Estate Branch in the Hawaii Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, but the web page isn't loading at the moment.


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## DeniseM (Jun 3, 2009)

It doesn't matter when the rescission arrives, what matters is when it's postmarked.  As Steve said, you need to follow the directions exactly and do it today.

The salesperson is just trying to delay, so that you will miss the deadline - once that happens, you will be stuck.   You should quit talking to them and get the rescission done today.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> The salesperson is just trying to delay, so that you will miss the deadline - once that happens, you will be stuck.   You should quit talking to them and get the rescission done today.



Keep in mind that when you cancel, the sales person not only loses commission, the sales person's account is probably also docked an additional cancellation fee.  Also the fact that you canceled becomes a negative that affects the sales persons compensation and performance reviews.

IOW - the sales person has lots of reasons to not give you objective information.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 3, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Keep in mind that when you cancel, the sales person not only loses commission, the sales person's account is probably also docked an additional cancellation fee.  Also the fact that you canceled becomes a negative that affects the sales persons compensation and performance reviews.



I've never heard of this from timeshare salesmen. A rescission is called a "kick" by the salespeople. The saying goes, "You can't get kicks if you don't get sales."

A certain percentage of buyers are going to rescind, that's expected. Salespeople who never get kicks are leaving business on the table -- they're the ones who are scrutinized by the sales managers.

However if a salesperson gets a disproportional amount of kicks, that's analyzed, too.


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## Tia (Jun 3, 2009)

As the others have said pls don't just hope   but read and do EXACTLY what is written in your documents...  FAX _is usually not what is needed_, most times it certified return reciept mail I believe.  Re the reason your not getting answers for June 2010 should be clear, written between the lines, it is not available.





michele1 said:


> ....- so I have to check my docs and hope a fax will work or PM today..
> sigh they also still havent given me an answer on if I could get the week in beginning of June 2010 that I requested...that has been dragging on for days..


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> I've never heard of this from timeshare salesmen. A rescission is called a "kick" by the salespeople. The saying goes, "You can't get kicks if you don't get sales."
> 
> A certain percentage of buyers are going to rescind, that's expected. Salespeople who never get kicks are leaving business on the table -- they're the ones who are scrutinized by the sales managers.
> 
> However if a salesperson gets a disproportional amount of kicks, that's analyzed, too.



I recall some grousings about that in discussions in StreetTalk when that site was operating.  IIRC - the "rationale" was that there was extra handling associated with processing a rescind, so the resort charged a fee to the sales reps when there was a rescind.  Perhaps this was not the practice  at all sales centers.

******

On our initial purchase, we got all of the documents to sign, and I proceeded to start reading every one of them.  The sales rep started pushing me to go ahead and sign, and promptly got a very bad look from me.  I told him I wasn't going to sign anything without reading it first and satisfying myself about any questions.

He then said we had seven days to rescind, and I could take the documents with me to read them and if there was a problem I could terminate the contract.

When I actually did rescind he complained that he didn't think I would actually do it and questioned my personal integrity.


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## Laurie (Jun 3, 2009)

Your deadline is probably when the post office closes today, wherever you are, because it sounds like you have to have it postmarked with today's date. (I could be mistaken - if you already went past the 7 days, oh well.)

Just do it - quit reading advice now and get to it - then second guess your decision to rescind later!

Signed,

A person who rescinded and never regretted it for one nanosecond, and has been happily timesharing with resales ever since, for about one-tenth the cost.


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## entersandancer (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank you everyone..I did go ahead and read over the docs very carefully and rescinded, with a few twists and turns along the way..but I think I'm OK.

The contract said you could rescind by "telecopy" which I had to google to make sure that meant "fax". However, nowhere in any of the documents was there a fax number!!! I finally got one from the salesperson and faxed it to that number this afternoon, and she confirmed they got it, let's hope it was correct information.

The salesperson gave me several different answers as to the time of day of the deadline, although she did consistently say today, June 3..however on the rescission form they provided on which she had handwritten the cutoff date it looks like either June 2 or 3, one number was written on top of the other making it impossible to read precisely. I attached the sales contract and other identifying information as suggested somewhere else on this forum.

Earlier in the day I had also mailed the same package to the Marriott corporate address given on the rescission form, so that will be postmarked today..but I couldn't leave work to go to the post-office to send it return receipt requested.

There was also mention of sending it via telegram but I didn't have time to figure out how to do that, it looked like you would have to type the entire letter into the on-line telegram website and they would take it from there, but I didn't have time to decipher it.

The salesperson told me via text message that I was fine as long as the fax was received before midnight today at the fax number she gave me. And she confirmed that they received it around 4 PM. Soooo, unless she is playing games I hope I'm covered.

As far as the weeks I was trying to get: When all this started I had requested the first week in January 2010. The next day they told me that was available, and that some other person would call me to officially book it. But the next day, poof, that week was no longer available mysteriously..so then I asked for the first week in June 2010. Another day or two went by with no answer on that one. By then I was getting the feeling that if I didn't get that week when asking one year ahead I was going to rescind. This morning there was still no answer so I had to proceed on that basis as time was quickly running out and due to my work schedule I had limited time to deal with this today. Of course as soon as I notified the rep that I was in the process of rescinding about two hours later she let me know that week was available...but that was too little and way too late. 

So we will see if the salesperson was being straight with me or it someone from "corporate" will say, oops, sorry, you were given incorrect information as to the cutoff date, the method of notification, or "whatever".

Don't get me wrong, I have been a loyal customer of the Marriott for years, and I did feel I could basically trust the sales rep and she did a good job explaining how it all worked, or I never would have gone this far with it...but then realizing that it was too hasty, the reservations weren't being handled efficiently, and that I really needed to look into resales, and first they said I could have more time, then said I couldn't..it just wasn't giving me a feeling of confidence that buying this at this time was a good idea.

Thanks again everyone..and any tips as to what to do next are appreciated. I did like the location and the units were beautiful..the lockoff feature with the every other year flex week was good for me too, esp as you could carry the other side of the unit forward into the off year.

Sorry to be so long winded..


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## Passepartout (Jun 4, 2009)

Good Job! It looks like you dodged the bullet. Now hang out here for a while. Keep an eye- or a search- out here in the marketplace or on ebay for a TS you want. Rent a few. You can rent for about the cost of someone else's MF. Marriotts are nice, but they aren't the only game in town. Try some others. We like to say 'buy what you'll use'. Now with flying costing what it does, having a TS within driving range where you enjoy going is a real benefit. If it turns out that you end up going back and buying one from  Marriott, at least you will be informed.

Glad you  found TUG. It looks like we might have saved you a couple of $10's of thousands. You're welcome!

Jim Ricks


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## James1975NY (Jun 4, 2009)

enterdandancer said:


> I'm pretty new but am trying to jumpstart my knowledge. Went to a sales presentation last while on vacation in Maui.. I was pleasantly surprised by the product and the price offered, and what seemed to be low pressure sales technique. I decided to go for it and use the 7 day rescission period to get up to speed and cancel out if I found anything not to my liking.
> Wow, the 7 days has gone by fast..and they are giving me at least another day to complete my evaluation, luckily.
> What I am contemplating purchasing is an every other year flex week mountain view 2 BR unit in Napili Villas. I was also given a bunch of Marriott points ( I think about 75K), an almost $5,000 discount for signing up that day, two free luau tickets, and a certificate to give to a friend for 5 free nights as long as they attend a sales presentation. This is the unit that has the studio that can be locked off. The locked off portion if unused one year can be carried forward to the next year effectively giving you an every year stay if you want to. I was really impressed by the flexibility of the package and the units were beautiful. The whole deal came out to a cost of around 23,000-24,000 K..don't have exact figure in front of me. The maintenance fee will be approx 900. per year.
> Here are my questions:
> ...



The maintenance fees WILL go up - assume it.

Special Assessments - should not have to worry about this for at least 10-years.

You will get your reservations for next year. They will be assuming it will sour the deal if they do not get you what you want.....but I would not expect to hear from them until after rescission is past.

As Denise said, the account executive is just smoke and mirrors.

I am not totally against purchasing direct from the developer if you truly feel that points are important to you as a use option; however, I would get acclimated to the number of points that you will get on a conversion and understand what that will get you in the hotel world.


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## James1975NY (Jun 4, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Welcome to TUG!
> 
> You can buy the same exact thing on the resale market for a fraction of the cost - you SHOULD rescind immediately!
> 
> ...



Denise suggests rescind and I am also leaning in that direction. One thing to consider is this...

1.) You are interested in a vacation for 2010 with your ownership.

2.) If you rescind you do not have vacations for 2010.

3.) See if they have a vacation package for 2010 because it will be a little time before you find the same ownership type on the resale market for a really good price. They are out there.


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## Stricky (Jun 4, 2009)

entersandancer said:


> Thank you everyone..I did go ahead and read over the docs very carefully and rescinded, with a few twists and turns along the way..but I think I'm OK.
> 
> .....
> Sorry to be so long winded..



 

Way to go. I hope you feel better now. TS purchases are big decisions and made best after careful research and proper consideration.

Take a look at this tread for some general advise: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/announcement.php?f=13&a=6


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## pwrshift (Jun 4, 2009)

When in doubt, don't.  It sounds like you had doubts about your purchase right from the beginning, and I'm glad you did rescind.  While I really like the Marriott Rewards program, especially for empty nesters, I don't think you got the best deal you could on incentive MR points and I'd hold out for a better deal ... and they'll come along for sure.   You can always buy your resort resale for a lot less, but you should take the time to investigate the Marriott Rewards program as you may find it just as rewarding as owning the timeshare.  

By far the majority of TUG members are 'resale' owners and sometimes over promote that way of buying ... I'm in the minority as a 'direct' buyer with Marriott ... started with 1 and ended up with 6 ... and incentive points for buying numbered into the millions and have traded 2 of them every year for 220,000 points to help replace what we've used.  This program  may or may not be for you, but at least now you've got the chance and time to research what is important to you now and into the future.  We've travelled the world on MR points but id does take some investment in units over a period of time to make the plan work to its maximum.

You might consider an every-other-year purchase at two different locations that you would enjoy using ... and perhaps ones to which y9u could drive and that have relatively low maintenance fees.  In the odd year you use one and in between the other - don't even need Interval for that kind of trading.  Just be sure you buy where you reaqlly enjoy.

Study the Marriott board on this BBS it that is the developer you prefer ... ask your questions and you'll learn a ton of great info.  Although many are biased one way or the other, you will get expert free advice on any aspect of ownership you want.  Have fun.

Brian


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## m61376 (Jun 5, 2009)

One thing not mentioned by others is that I think you misunderstand how the lock-off feature works. it is true that if you lock off you can use the other half the following year, so you can have annual trips out of an EOY ownership. But I wanted to make sure you realize you can't simply book the week you want in the off year with your lock-off unit. Use of the unit in an off year is only via making an exchange through II, even if you are looking for a week at your home resort.

A few other issues not mentioned- every owner- resale or direct- is entitled to a vacation adviser. Direct purchasers are assigned ones and resale owners have to request one.

The reason they may not have been able to reserve your beginning of June week is that they first were available 12 months out, so if you wanted the week beginning June 4th next year reservations for that week became available this morning.

Good luck, and make sure to read the Marriott forum here for more info..


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## Kauai Kid (Jun 5, 2009)

If you have any doubts RESCIND IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER.

Sterling


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## Laurie (Jun 5, 2009)

entersandancer said:


> The contract said you could rescind by "telecopy" which I had to google to make sure that meant "fax". However, nowhere in any of the documents was there a fax number!!! I finally got one from the salesperson and faxed it to that number this afternoon, and she confirmed they got it, let's hope it was correct information.
> 
> The salesperson told me via text message that I was fine as long as the fax was received before midnight today at the fax number she gave me. And she confirmed that they received it around 4 PM. Soooo, unless she is playing games I hope I'm covered.


I hope you have written proof that they received your fax, and by date and time. (Can you print out a text message?) If you don't, I encourage you to request it now, just to be covered.

I once lost the ability to appeal something because the agency maintained they hadn't received my fax on time. My fax machine at the time notified me if there was any error in transmission, which it hadn't done in this instance.  I never quite believed they hadn't received it - but had no proof.  So now if I fax to meet an important deadline, I always request receipt acknowledgement in writing.


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## taffy19 (Jun 5, 2009)

Laurie said:


> I hope you have written proof that they received your fax, and by date and time. (Can you print out a text message?) If you don't, I encourage you to request it now, just to be covered.
> 
> I once lost the ability to appeal something because the agency maintained they hadn't received my fax on time. My fax machine at the time notified me if there was any error in transmission, which it hadn't done in this instance.  I never quite believed they hadn't received it - but had no proof.  So now if I fax to meet an important deadline, I always request receipt acknowledgement in writing.


I don't think you have to worry about the Marriott.  They are not Wastegate or some of the resorts in Mexico where you can't trust hardly anyone.  I hope you can trust your saleslady if she told you that she had received the FAX.  I remember the Marriott even rescinding a contract once that came in too late which gave them a lot of praise from our timeshare community.  I can't find the link right now as it is a while ago and I would certainly not make a habit of rescinding late as time is of the essence in a written contract.


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