# Just applied for refi 10 yrs at 2.875% 0% points



## MOXJO7282 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm really excited that we're able to do this the rates are so low its a no-brainer. Lowers my monthly payments by about $500 and rate from 5 1/4%
. Saving $150k in interest over the balance of our 15 yr.

Anyone know of a lower rate?


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 5, 2011)

That's a wonderful deal!  Wow!  I would love to do that, but we only have four years left on our last 15 yr mortgage.  I wonder if Rick would freak out, if I suggested refinancing our rental and our house together for just one mortgage, paid off in ten years.


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## Luanne (Aug 5, 2011)

Is that a fixed or adjustable?  And conforming or jumbo loan?


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## loafingcactus (Aug 5, 2011)

I refinanced at 3 point something earlier this year.  Was so proud when the mortgage specialist said without looking up, "Oh, she hasn t been in her house long enough to qualify" and then the front-line credit union lady said, "Yes, but she's been paying extra."

I still pay the same amount, but I'm glad to have the flexibility to be able to drop down to the lower required payment were anything to happen.  And since it was a credit union loan, that amount gets lower every year.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 5, 2011)

Luanne said:


> Is that a fixed or adjustable?  And conforming or jumbo loan?



fixed, conforming


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## Jaybee (Aug 5, 2011)

That is a wonderful deal!  Good for you!  The financial world (along with the rest of it) has gone a little wacko!


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## ondeadlin (Aug 5, 2011)

Great deal.  What are your total closing costs?


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## Big Matt (Aug 5, 2011)

If you have a lot of equity go to your bank and find out what a home equiity line of credit will cost you.  It is probably prime plus or minus a half.  I paid off my house with my HELOC two years ago and am paying prime minus a half which is 2.75%  

Sure, my rate can go up, but it is an interest only loan and I can't see short term rates rising a whole lot soon.  

I will pay off my house in two years at this rate.


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## ada903 (Aug 5, 2011)

How much closing costs and with which bank?



MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm really excited that we're able to do this the rates are so low its a no-brainer. Lowers my monthly payments by about $500 and rate from 5 1/4%
> . Saving $150k in interest over the balance of our 15 yr.
> 
> Anyone know of a lower rate?


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## Karen G (Aug 5, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> it is an interest only loan . . .
> 
> I will pay off my house in two years at this rate.


If it's an interest only loan, how will that pay off the house? I thought an interest-only loan paid just the interest but not anything on the principal


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## Big Matt (Aug 5, 2011)

Karen,
an interest only loan requires you to pay only the interst every month, however, you can pay as much principal as you want.

My interest every month is only about $225 right now.  I pay between $2000-5000 per month in principal depending on what I can afford.  

Trust me, it pays down fast.


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## Karen G (Aug 5, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> I pay between $2000-5000 per month in principal depending on what I can afford.
> 
> Trust me, it pays down fast.


Yes, that would knock it down pretty fast!  Good for you.


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## am1 (Aug 5, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> Karen,
> an interest only loan requires you to pay only the interst every month, however, you can pay as much principal as you want.
> 
> My interest every month is only about $225 right now.  I pay between $2000-5000 per month in principal depending on what I can afford.
> ...



At that interest rate what is the rush?  The money can be better invested if thats what you want.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 5, 2011)

am1 said:


> At that interest rate what is the rush?  The money can be better invested if thats what you want.



It's not fixed.  So if the economy changes, the rate could increase.


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## Big Matt (Aug 5, 2011)

I laugh your post given what has happened in the stock market lately.  

Traditional wisdom doesn't always work out so well when the markets are in chaos.

I have a lot of money invested in many industries, etc.  For me, paying off my house gives me peace of mind, and plus, the $2000-5000 that I'm paying now in principal will go into the market once it is paid off.  That's 24-60k per year

My theory is that if everything goes to hell in a hand basket and my house is paid off, at least I have somewhere to sleep at night.



am1 said:


> At that interest rate what is the rush?  The money can be better invested if thats what you want.


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## akp (Aug 5, 2011)

*Wow*

I got 3.75% fixed a year ago and figured I'd never do better.  This is amazing.


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## loafingcactus (Aug 5, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> My theory is that if everything goes to hell in a hand basket and my house is paid off, at least I have somewhere to sleep at night.



Amen! Debt is never a lap poodle, even if we want to pretend that one sort or another is the exception.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 5, 2011)

Bethpage Federal Credit Union - closing is estimated at $6200. This is the best I could fine and I did a thorough search.


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## Elan (Aug 6, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Bethpage Federal Credit Union - closing is estimated at $6200. This is the best I could fine and I did a thorough search.



  That's a great rate, but the closing costs seem very high if there are minimal lender fees?


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## Elan (Aug 6, 2011)

BTW, if you're into messing around with mortgage rates and the impact of rates, terms, pre-payments, etc, a very nice tool can be found here: 

http://www.drcalculator.com/mortgage/

  Also, to find current competitive mortgage rates, one can look here:

www.amerisave.com

  Playing with the calculator this morning, I determined I could effectively secure a $50,000, 100 month, 0% personal loan via a cash out refi.  Wouldn't change my mortgage payoff date, *and* I could write off the interest on the $50K. 

  Anyhow, fun tools if one's so inclined......


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## Patri (Aug 6, 2011)

akp said:


> I got 3.75% fixed a year ago and figured I'd never do better.  This is amazing.



We refinanced a year or two ago too, and very happy with the rate (can't think of it off hand). Now DH wonders if we should do it again. I asked if the other one has paid for itself yet? We doubt it, so it probably doesn't make sense to go after another deal. Just pay off this house!


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## loafingcactus (Aug 6, 2011)

In my case it was like a baby refi since I was going with the same credit union only a few years later (I don't remember what they called the process, but the end date of my 30 years didn't change).  My closing costs were only about 1k and were rolled into the loan. 1k wasn't going to take very long to pay itself back, so it was a no brainer.  6k, if you aren't sure how long you will be in the house, might be a whole 'nother deal.


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## Talent312 (Aug 6, 2011)

We refi'ed a 15 yr. mortgage thru a local credit union ~ 2 years ago and got a 4.75% rate. At the time, it seemed pretty good. What sold us is that they covered the closing costs 100%, but that was subject to recapture if we refi'ed again within 5 years...

So we're think that we're sort'a stuck with it for a bit.

--------------------
I wish I could refi our rental property, but the last time I checked commercial rates didn't make it cost effective. If I even suggested adding the balance to our home mortgage, my DW would have a cow.


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## am1 (Aug 6, 2011)

If banks are able to lend money at those low rates with the high risk of inflation it shows that there could be big problems still ahead.


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## loafingcactus (Aug 6, 2011)

Talent, you could ask em about the baby refi (I don't know what the real name is).  What they told me is that it's still the same loan, it's basically just a rate adjustment like they would give someone in trouble.  They told me that because they are a credit union, I didn't have to show any evidence of being in trouble, they were just giving it to anyone who asked.


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## Wonka (Aug 6, 2011)

Well, I guess I got "screwed".  I just refinanced at 4.65% yesterday.  It will still save us about $400 month before considering the loss of the tax deduction on the lower amount of interest.

However...the loan process was the biggest PITA I ever experienced.  Call after call asking for more information and our credit rating is excellent.  Our employer's were called twice including the day of closing.  The Underwriter or lender tried to squeeze an extra 1/2% at the last minute indicating the application overstated the appraised value of our home by $25,000 (the application is only an estimate and was determined by the broker).  The application forgot to include an extra $30,000 of Self employment income (on the tax returns), but instead of being happy with more income....more forms to sign.  After the close, the broker called back and said the bank wouldn't fund the loan because they found additional property we own (a boat rack-o-minium) paid for in cash (it's just a boat rack in a hurricane proof building...but expensive).  After I sent them the tax bills and closing papers on the rack, they finally disbursed the funds.  I didn't even tell them about the timeshares I own (a couple are deeded)...it probably wouldn't have closed on time.

A caution for anyone refinancing.  The process is much, much more time-consuming than in the past.  Make sure you have a mortgage broker that will ask for everything at once rather than piecemeal with phone calls and emails.


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## Talent312 (Aug 6, 2011)

loafingcactus said:


> Talent, you could ask em about the baby refi (I don't know what the real name is).  What they told me is that it's still the same loan, it's basically just a rate adjustment like they would give someone in trouble.



Oh, yeah. They did that with one of our new car loans.

When they dropped the rate a few months later, they said that they would redo our loan, if we took some additional "cash out" to up the balance a bit. So we told them that we wanted another $1000. They put it into checking. The following month, we paid more than $1000 extra on the principal.


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## Big Matt (Aug 7, 2011)

That's not how the market works.

Most banks and mortgage companies lend money and immediately sell the loan to another entity (either a larger bank or Fannie/Freddie).  The loans are securitized and investors buy the securities.  This is why Fannie/Freddie are such a mess.....they own most of the loans and they guarantee the security holders that they will receive the principal portions of the cash flows (even if the loan goes to foreclosure).

Most banks never, ever take on interest rate risk without hedging anyway.



am1 said:


> If banks are able to lend money at those low rates with the high risk of inflation it shows that there could be big problems still ahead.


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## Cathyb (Aug 7, 2011)

*Get ready for lots of paperwork*



MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm really excited that we're able to do this the rates are so low its a no-brainer. Lowers my monthly payments by about $500 and rate from 5 1/4%
> . Saving $150k in interest over the balance of our 15 yr.
> 
> Anyone know of a lower rate?



We have been trying to process a refi for two months now.  This is with our present lender (B/A)  for over 5 years and with high FICO score and little debt.  We would give them two months of all the stuff they need and because they are so slow to process -- another rmonth passes and we have to get the same stuff all over again. :annoyed:  Starting to wonder if it was all worth it.


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## Talent312 (Aug 7, 2011)

Cathyb said:


> We have been trying to process a refi for two months now.  This is with our present lender (B/A)...



IMHO, BoA is a high-fee rip-off artist, and their processes are antediluvian.
You can do much better elsewhere. I'd be looking for any other lender.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 7, 2011)

Someone commented the closing seemed high but on the contrary it was also the lowest that I found. 

I went through lending tree and all the others mentioned and researched all the big players and they were all higher rate and higher closing. I googled for some time and couldn't find anyone better.

BFCU is my primary mortgage company now and I just love their customer service. They have never jerked me around on anything so I suspect this will be the same.  I just hope the rate doesn't go up before I can secure as I guess I have to get to a branch to sign a doc to secure the low rate.


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## glypnirsgirl (Aug 8, 2011)

Congratulations! That is a terrific deal.

The appraised value of our house has dropped so much we will never be able to refinance - we are now over $50K upside down. 

We took out a $60K second lien for an addition and 2 bathroom remodeling when first liens were still running 7.5%. At the time, we intended to refinance once the remodeling was completed. 

When I was ready to refinance, Ian didn't want to do so. At that point, the house still had all of the value it needed to qualify. Our credit was excellent and everything was in place ... Ian didn't want to spend the $3500 to close and did not want the maturation date on the loan extended. By the time he would listen to me about why we would be better off, the market collapsed, the house dropped in value and we were out of luck. 

I could kick myself over this. My husband has never made money on real estate. I have never (before) lost money on real estate. And I let him make the decision without arguing enough. He blames me for not being more emphatic about the reasons why it would have been a better idea to refinance. ARGGHH! 

We are happy in the house. We intend to live here for many years to come. And now that the kids have all graduated and we are out of the tuition and room and board business, we will be able to start paying additional principal on the second and get it cleared out fairly quickly. Still, it makes me sick to spend that much unnecessary money on interest.


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## Elan (Aug 8, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Someone commented the closing seemed high but on the contrary it was also the lowest that I found.



  That was me that commented about the closing costs.  There must be additional costs in your region, as 3rd party fees have typically been around $2000 when I've re-fi'd in the past.


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## Fitzriley (Aug 8, 2011)

We took out a home equity also when rates were high and locked it in at over 7% to buy a second home. I tried to refinance, but the value of the first house is not much higher than the 2 loans combined and I can't get a bank to do a 90% that makes sense. Sold the first house but I hold the mortgage for another 2 years, so I can't do anything about my rate now. Am building a garage with cash and am hoping when it is done I may be able to increase the value enough to do a refi and combine the first and second at a better rate all around. I would rather pay into the house right now than into the market, as I don't trust it anymore. I can't touch my 401k, yet I can watch it lose value all over again. Doesn't seem right.



glypnirsgirl said:


> The appraised value of our house has dropped so much we will never be able to refinance - we are now over $50K upside down.
> 
> We took out a $60K second lien for an addition and 2 bathroom remodeling when first liens were still running 7.5%. At the time, we intended to refinance once the remodeling was completed.


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## bigrick (Aug 8, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm really excited that we're able to do this the rates are so low its a no-brainer. Lowers my monthly payments by about $500 and rate from 5 1/4%. Saving $150k in interest over the balance of our 15 yr.
> 
> Anyone know of a lower rate?



I've used aimloan.com before.  I expect to use them again for a refi for my mom.  They're simple and easy to work with and they send a notary to you to finalize everything.  Much less hassle than many banks put you through.

Their current rate for a 10-year refi is in line with yours I think.  They have a rate of 2.75% now.  Their closing costs may be less but there are points.  Points/no points/closing costs/no closing costs -- one way or another you still pay the costs of obtaining a loan.

I also see a 2.00% rate for a 5-year loan!


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## bign411 (Aug 8, 2011)

*Need more information on refinancing*

Have two weeks in westgate vacation villas which we bought into about one and half years ago.  Looking for information on who, how or where I could refinance my existing mortgage.  I am new to TUG and haven't gotten the hang of navigation yet.

Thank you for your help


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## bigrick (Aug 8, 2011)

In this same train of thought I was at a US Bank in the SF bay area.  They're offering COMMERCIAL loans for 3.75% for 5-years.  WOW!

I'm expecting a call back with 10- and 15-year rates and terms soon.


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## ondeadlin (Aug 8, 2011)

I was just approved to refi from a 5 percent/15 year with 12+ years left into a 4 percent/15 year.  This will shave almost $350 a month off my monthly payment, but I plan on continuing to pay the same monthly payment so as to pay off the loan in under 11 years.

Best part?  Because I'm doing it with my current lender I'm not paying any closing costs or appraisal costs and I don't have to go through a formal closing - they're just sending me some docs to sign.

So it's almost like I'm getting to end the mortgage a little early without paying any penalty.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well I gathered all the docs they request but didn't send the rate lock doc. 

I think I'm going to take my chances that it will stay the same or go down. I just have a funny feeling they are going to go down a tick.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 9, 2011)

ondeadlin said:


> I was just approved to refi from a 5 percent/15 year with 12+ years left into a 4 percent/15 year.  This will shave almost $350 a month off my monthly payment, but I plan on continuing to pay the same monthly payment so as to pay off the loan in under 11 years.
> 
> Best part?  Because I'm doing it with my current lender I'm not paying any closing costs or appraisal costs and I don't have to go through a formal closing - they're just sending me some docs to sign.
> 
> So it's almost like I'm getting to end the mortgage a little early without paying any penalty.



What mortgage company?  We have two with Bank of America and would like to reduce the rate.  I would love to refinance our rental property for 15 years, or even ten years.  Since B of A is one of the biggest mortgage companies, I hope you will say it's them.


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## ondeadlin (Aug 9, 2011)

Wells Fargo - but it never hurts to ask. Good luck!


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## Elan (Aug 9, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What mortgage company?  We have two with Bank of America and would like to reduce the rate.  I would love to refinance our rental property for 15 years, or even ten years.  Since B of A is one of the biggest mortgage companies, I hope you will say it's them.



  BofA does streamlined refi's, at least according to one of their mortgage officers I golfed with a few weeks ago.  Just call and ask.


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## bigrick (Aug 10, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What mortgage company?  We have two with Bank of America and would like to reduce the rate.  I would love to refinance our rental property for 15 years, or even ten years.  Since B of A is one of the biggest mortgage companies, I hope you will say it's them.



Cindy, check out bankrate.com . Click the button for refinance and plug in your numbers.  I always find attractive rates by looking here.


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## csudell (Oct 4, 2011)

Elan said:


> BTW, if you're into messing around with mortgage rates and the impact of rates, terms, pre-payments, etc, a very nice tool can be found here:
> 
> http://www.drcalculator.com/mortgage/
> 
> ...



Curious if anyone here as used Amerisave.  Their rates seemed great but I saw mixed reviews.


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## MOXJO7282 (Oct 4, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Well I gathered all the docs they request but didn't send the rate lock doc.
> 
> I think I'm going to take my chances that it will stay the same or go down. I just have a funny feeling they are going to go down a tick.



And down a tick it went, unfortunately after my closing went through. It went down to 2.75% from 2.87%. Cost me $18/month for ten years. Such is life.


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## Elan (Oct 4, 2011)

I actually used Amerisave when I did my first refi of our current residence back in 2004.  As I recall, it all went off fine.  They sent a closing agent to my house.


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## xzhan02 (Oct 5, 2011)

I used Amerisave to refi and purchase of 2nd home 4 times in the last 3 years, each time with zero or negative closing cost (meaning their credit exceeded net cost of closing).  Just closed a 3.375% 15 yr loan (could have gotten 3.125 had I waited a couple of days to lock).  Closing time is usually less than 45 days, and yes, they send a closer to you home to sign.  The best part is the transparency of fees and rate on the website.  Everything needs to be in perfect condition though, appraisal, credit, income etc.



Elan said:


> I actually used Amerisave when I did my first refi of our current residence back in 2004.  As I recall, it all went off fine.  They sent a closing agent to my house.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2011)

Glad I looked back to find this as the link helped me look at the numbers and %'s I have been looking at. Rates+costs not as simple as things seem  



Elan said:


> BTW, if you're into messing around with mortgage rates and the impact of rates, terms, pre-payments, etc, a very nice tool can be found here:
> 
> http://www.drcalculator.com/mortgage/
> 
> ....Anyhow, fun tools if one's so inclined......


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## SDKath (Nov 19, 2011)

We just closed on a loan at 3.5% for 7 year fixed (30y loan) but it's a large amount "super jumbo" I think, through Wells Fargo.  The process took forever and was totally intense and required a LOT of documentation, but it's done and well worth it since I have not seen such great rates ever before.  No closing cost by the way (except appraisal of $500).  Our prior loan with our credit union was 5% and I was super proud when I got that one, about 18mo ago.

Katherine


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 19, 2011)

We just refinanced last month (3.25% for 15 years).  Never so much hassle EVER in getting a loan (and we have good credit).  I don't think the banks really want these refi's to go through.  That was my take-away.  We used a local bank who immediately sold to Wells Fargo. Actually even that got messed up.  Just today had to make my December payment to the local bank because they didn't get the transfer to Wells Fargo done in time. I know early, but, I never send checks through the mail anymore. Since this is such a mess I thought I'd better get it done before I forgot.  

One piece of advice I would have is in regards to the appraisal. We had to have ours done twice.  The first one was way below what we thought it should be. I documented everything we had ever done since we moved in 20 years ago.  Also researched other homes in our area and suggested some for comparisons.  Second one came back 15% higher.


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## SDKath (Nov 20, 2011)

I agree, the process has turned into a total nightmare!  At first, they told us that unless we both had 800 credit score or higher, they would not let us even apply!  GOOD GRIEF!!  That's just insane.

I think that banks are really getting crazy with this process, swinging 180 degrees in the other direction from before, when you just had to sign on the dotted line and could get hundreds of thousands of dollars of cash "out."  Now you can't even refi without giving them every little detail.  Examples of inane questions we had to document:

1) How could DH work from home but work for a company in NY.  Hmmm, let's see, he has done it for 12 years, he has a regular salary and W2, his job is a computer engineer, which doesn't require onsite presence.  Had to write a letter on personal letterhead explaining this in detail.

2) What are these deposits to your account for $1250, $550, $980, etc?  LOL since we had a power surge in Jan and 2 of those checks were reimbursements from our builder for a replacement subwoofer and microwave.  But yes, I had to justify every deposit over $250 to my account going back 3 months!  Unbelievable.

3) Can we provide 2 years of tax returns?  No, xerox not good enough.  Need a letter attached from our accountant saying that it is indeed our returns and have not been changed after the fact, etc?!?!?!

4) What is this inquiry to your credit report from Am Ex 3 months ago?  Please explain...
Me: That was an application for a new credit card for DH (the Starwood Am Ex card when they were doing the BIG bonus SPs).  
WF: OK, maaam, but we need proof.  
Me: Ummm ok, here is his new card.  
WF: Maaam, we need you to provide written proof and his new account number.  
Me: Sir, can't you look up his new account number on his credit report and see when the account was opened??  
WF: Yes, maaam, but we need it in writing from you.  Please include his new account number.
Me: That can't be too secure, can it???
Another letter on personal letterhead...

And my personal favorite:

5) Can I explain why my income went UP by $X last year.  WHA?????

I can go on and on...


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## Talent312 (Nov 20, 2011)

SDKath said:


> I agree, the process has turned into a total nightmare! At first, they told us that unless we both had 800 credit score or higher, they would not let us even apply!...Now you can't even refi without giving them every little detail...



Our scores are both over 800, but I'm surprised they haven't asked us for a DNA sample.

When they asked, "How many years have you and your wife been in your professions?" I was tempted to respond, "Too damn long." They wanted a copy of an insurance policy on property not included in the mortgage. I e-mailed them the entire 80 page package.


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## Sandi Bo (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes, they wanted copies of things they had no reason to have (IMO).

Everything they wanted I gave them within 24 hours, thankfully their office was pretty much on my way to work. Still our lock expired. At my insistance it was extended (3 days) for no charge. 

They had to run several things twice (one last credit balance and 3-way calling to ensure a loan was payed off (even though I had it fully documented). 

The day we closed they called in the morning and asked if we could close at 3:30pm that day. I had traded cars with my daughter that day. She was at work 60 miles away.  So was my drivers license. I didn't even think about that, until I walked into the closing and they asked for my DL. My son had dated the daughter of the closing officer. My husband remembered that the eye doctor 2 blocks away had taken a copy of my DL about 2 weeks earlier. The closing officer accepted a copy of my DL from my eye doctor.


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## Talent312 (Nov 20, 2011)

Sandi Bo said:


> The day we closed they called in the morning and asked if we could close at 3:30pm that day. I had traded cars with my daughter that day. She was at work 60 miles away.  So was my drivers license. I didn't even think about that, until I walked into the closing and they asked for my DL. My son had dated the daughter of the closing officer. My husband remembered that the eye doctor 2 blocks away had taken a copy of my DL about 2 weeks earlier. The closing officer accepted a copy of my DL from my eye doctor.



I went in for an ultrasound on Nov.11th at 7:30AM.
They asked for my DL. I said that I had left it at home on my desk.

"How do we know that you're the one who's supposed to be here?" she said.
"Who else would be here on a holiday, at this ungodly hour?" I asked.
_Like I'd send in a ringer to take my ultrasound for me._

They accepted my promise to return with it by lunch-time.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 20, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Well I gathered all the docs they request but didn't send the rate lock doc.
> 
> I think I'm going to take my chances that it will stay the same or go down. I just have a funny feeling they are going to go down a tick.



Well I started this thread and am happy to say my refi went very well with BFCU. They did ask for every detail of my finances and at times it became redundant but all and all it went excellent where we lowered our rate considerably and we took out a good chunk of change that I can now give to my daugther's college of choice for the next few years.

One bit of bad luck was we held out locking in our 10 yr 2.875% and a week after we closed it went down to 2.75% which would have lower our payment by $16 a month.


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## Htoo0 (Nov 20, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Well I started this thread and am happy to say my refi went very well with BFCU. They did ask for every detail of my finances and at times it became redundant but all and all it went excellent where we lowered our rate considerably and we took out a good chunk of change that I can now give to my daugther's college of choice for the next few years.
> 
> One bit of bad luck was we held out locking in our 10 yr 2.875% and a week after we closed it went down to 2.75% which would have lower our payment by $16 a month.



$16 a month... ouch, there goes the new ________!


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## SDKath (Nov 20, 2011)

Htoo0 said:


> $16 a month... ouch, there goes the new ________!



There go 4 cups of Starbucks Mochas per month for the rest of their loan's life!  MMMMmmmmm.


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