# New Purchase:  Good Deal.



## drnd (Jul 20, 2008)

We just got back from hawaii and purchase a TS in the HHV:  Grand Waikikian from Hilton directly.  I now have a few question to ask before my 7  rescind days are up.  Please help.

We bought a 2bedroom/Garden view.  10,500 pt.  platinum season.
Bonuses are:  48,000 bonus club points.  Cost $56,000.  MF:  about $1,200.

We really love hawaii and love the home resort feature for reservation from 9-12 months out.  I was hoping to go for X-mas so we opted to have the points allocation start this year.  I now find it will be very hard to get anything for X-mas unless the Grand Waikikian opens.

Is this a good buy?  Please help.


----------



## alwysonvac (Jul 20, 2008)

*Just my two cents*

You're going to pay top dollar for Hawaii. 

To me, it only makes sense to buy Hawaii if you're planning to 
(1) mainly stay at your home resort with plans to book during the home resort period (9 to 12 months out). Don't count on last minute reservation here due to the popularity of the Oahu resorts.
(2) need or prefer to travel during the peak season - whenever the kids are out of school (Winter Break, Summer, Spring Break). 

Remember during the home resort period you have to 
(a) reserve your unit for the full week (for the Grand Waikikian you must check-in on a Saturday) 
(b) reserve the type of unit and view you own 

NOTE: XMAS week is generally available for purchase as a fixed week at some resorts. I'm assuming HGVC leaves some percentage of units available for float week reservation. So if you want a XMAS week I would book it as soon as your 12 month window opens.

If you decide to keep it, you should be able to rescue your points until next year if you can't find any other dates for this year.

The units at the Lagoon Tower at the Hilton Hawaiian Village are available for resale. I think you can get a two bedroom oceanfront unit in the Lagoon Tower for less than the price you're paying. But each tower has their pros and cons - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75684

Good Luck with your decision


----------



## Talent312 (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> We just got back from hawaii and purchase a TS in the HHV:  Grand Waikikian from Hilton directly.  I now have a few question to ask before my 7  rescind days are up.  Please help.
> 
> We bought a 2bedroom/Garden view.  10,500 pt.  platinum season.
> Bonuses are:  48,000 bonus club points.  Cost $56,000.  MF:  about $1,200.
> Is this a good buy?



Ouch!
IMHO, buying directly from Hilton is foolhardy since you can buy HGVC platinum points resale (like from ebay) for about $2.00/point at Hilton-resorts on the mainland.   Meaning that, but for the advantage of home-season at HHV, you could have saved yourself about $30K.  But then, you'd join the unwashed masses of other Hilton-members competing for Hawaii at 9-mos. out.

I do not include "bonus points" in this consideration since they cannot be used for home or club reservations and expire in 24mos. (HGVC Guide, p.170) 

Frankly, I tend to doubt that home-season at GW (or those bonus points) is worth the premium you are paying.  If it were me, I'd RESCIND, but well, we need folks to buy from the developer so there will be a resale market.


----------



## UWSurfer (Jul 20, 2008)

That's an awful lot of money.   Based on that alone I'd rescind.

Know that we stayed a week at Lagoon Tower, 2bdrm/2ba ocean view over this past spring break using points from my LV HGVC.  We booked right when the 9 month window opened.  That was coupled with a week's stay at Bay Club on the Big Island.   Our 8400 points cost us less than $15K out the door resale.

Admittedly that's about 80% of the points that GW requires, but at nearly 1/4th the price.   My MF's are likely less too.  The premium you pay for GW from the developer now will get you the home resort booking option & you are 3,500 points away from qualifying for elite status by purchasing from the developer.   You will spend even more money to reach that.

It's your $$, but not for long if you don't rescind.


----------



## DEROS (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> We just got back from hawaii and purchase a TS in the HHV:  Grand Waikikian from Hilton directly.  I now have a few question to ask before my 7  rescind days are up.  Please help.
> 
> We bought a 2bedroom/Garden view.  10,500 pt.  platinum season.
> Bonuses are:  48,000 bonus club points.  Cost $56,000.  MF:  about $1,200.
> ...



I would rescind and buy resale.  You just have to wait for it to happen.  I seen resale for Kings Land and they are not operating yet.  Just to show how much money I saved, 9600 pts platinum Waikoloa; $52,000 retail vs $25,000 resale.



drnd said:


> We really love hawaii and love the home resort feature for reservation from 9-12 months out.  I was hoping to go for X-mas so we opted to have the points allocation start this year.  I now find it will be very hard to get anything for X-mas unless the Grand Waikikian opens.



FYI:  For Hawaii, week 51 and 52 are normally fixed weeks or event weeks.  So you will not be able reserve 12 months out.  Also, since it is fixed, the owners automatically get reserved for those weeks.  If the owners cancel their week, then you will have to fight with everybody else at the 9 month mark.  That how it was explained to me when I went on the Waikoloa presentation.  So, it goes back to points are points.

However, if you want to ensure that you get the week you want, except for 51/52 and gold weeks, and you will be going to Oahu often for vacations then by all means buy Hawaii and not  a state side property.  I have read both positive and negative about trying to book a room at HHV, 9 mths or less, especially in December.  Even though I live in Hawaii, I picked Waikoloa because I plan to take a vacation every year, even if I can only afford the ticket to island hop to the Big Island.

Hope this help.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 20, 2008)

I'd reply but I keep passing out everytime I read the purchase price.  Boy timeshares have become expesive when purchased from the developer. I'm glad we got involved when we did 10 years ago rather than now. At those prices, we'd NEVER have taken the first step into timeshare. I'd have run out the door and never looked back. 

If home resort advantage and unit style location is that important to you, then it's a good deal. Buying resale anywhere else and hoping to exchagne in for the exact dates you want can be iffy at best. Lately it's been tough to exchange into Hawaii and we had to settle for what we could get, which was not what I had hoped for. 

Since we don't plan on traveling to Hawaii every year.....or ever again for that matter......owning in Hawaii would be a waste of money for our needs. However, if that ever changed I would seriously consider buying what I wanted in Hawaii. 

Rescinding and waiting for a resale unit to become available could be a long wait. This is a new resort, it will have ROFR and it could be several years before decent resale prices are seen.....if they're ever seen. It would be something of a small gamble and a waiting game IMO. But, that waiting game could cut your cost for the unit by 40% (perhaps more). So I guess it would depend on what's important to you. Pay now and travel now or wait it out until what you want becomes available at a better price. Only you will know what's a good deal for you.


----------



## ricoba (Jul 20, 2008)

There is a 2 Bedroom at the Lagoon Tower 7000 pts. on ebay for $22,500, buy it now, $24K listed by a TUG member Seth Nock.

For $56K you could buy two of those weeks and have the spare change to pay your maintenance fee.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jul 20, 2008)

Lets step back a little bit, How do the club points work - can they be converted into HH points? - 48000 x 25? 

Anyway , I agree with most of the other posts
IMHO ....Here are a Few suggestions: 
1) RESCIND........ then Buy Resale-save yourself 25 grand or so. Just be aware resale is a long process-
2) If you buy in the mainland ,getting the reservation you want in HHV or HGVC Kingsland is NOT a given- unless you are a Bay Club fan. The couple I travelled with in July 4 thought they could make a reservation in HGVC Waik 9 months out and ended up in the Bay Club-Bay Club is not bad but its not as luxurious as HGVC Waik or HHV
3)I like Ricobas post on the HHV  listings - I would call Seth Nock, pick his brain and negotiate on his listing.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jul 20, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> I'd reply but I keep passing out everytime I read the purchase price.  Boy timeshares have become expesive when purchased from the developer. I'm glad we got involved when we did 10 years ago rather than now. At those prices, we'd NEVER have taken the first step into timeshare. I'd have run out the door and never looked back.
> 
> If home resort advantage and unit style location is that important to you, then it's a good deal. Buying resale anywhere else and hoping to exchagne in for the exact dates you want can be iffy at best. Lately it's been tough to exchange into Hawaii and we had to settle for what we could get, which was not what I had hoped for.
> 
> ...




I agree with you Doug, when I was in the Big Island,for the Fourth of July,  most of the owners of HGVC in the mainland were at the Bay Club. I, wanted to stay 14 days so had to setlle for 4 in the Bay CLUB.  I think a buyer who wants a prime vacation inHawaii may need to start looking into resale in Hawaii.
Of course, they are expanding with Kingsland and the Grand Waik, so this may create more availability,


----------



## falmouth3 (Jul 20, 2008)

I'd suggest that you rescind *now*.  After you've spent some time here on TUG reading and educating yourself, if you decide that it really was a good buy and you still want it at that price, you can always get the same deal, no matte what they said.

Read the fine print on your contract and follow it exactly.

Good luck and welcome to TUG.

Sue


----------



## Karen G (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> We just got back from hawaii and purchase a TS in the HHV:  Grand Waikikian from Hilton directly.  I now have a few question to ask before my 7  rescind days are up.  Please help.


The fact that you have questions and may be having second thoughts about this purchase suggests that maybe you didn't have all the information you needed before you made this purchase.

If you are having any doubts whatsoever that this is right for you, rescind NOW while you still have the chance.  You'll never have this chance for rescission again once the seven days pass.

No matter what the salesman told you, this deal will still be available to you later if you decide it's really what you want.  Rescind, take time to research the resale market, and spend time on TUG reading everything you can to educate yourself. Then, when you know exactly what you are getting into, make a decision as an informed buyer.


----------



## Zac495 (Jul 20, 2008)

Rescind!!!!!!!!! Buy it resale! If you really want Hawaii, then by all means buy Hawaii resale (more expensive than buying Seaworld resale, but you get the 12 month perk). If you love the point system and see yourself all over, something cheaper with lower maintenance fees makes sense.

If you're new to timesharing, rescind and read the boards. Who knows? Maybe you, after reading, will prefer Marriott or Hyatt or something else (those are more expensive - just throwing it out there - though you can buy THEM resale less than you just spent!)

PS - bonus points are NEVER worth the extra money. NEVER.


----------



## Troopers (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> We just got back from hawaii and purchase a TS in the HHV:  Grand Waikikian from Hilton directly.  I now have a few question to ask before my 7  rescind days are up.  Please help.
> 
> We bought a 2bedroom/Garden view.  10,500 pt.  platinum season.
> Bonuses are:  48,000 bonus club points.  Cost $56,000.  MF:  about $1,200.
> ...



I generally echo the previous posts.  Recind now and learn more.

However, I do not think your deal is as bad as what others have suggested.  Several of the comparison are not true apple to apple comparisons.  Your deal is at $5.33/point for a 2 bdrm not counting your bonus points.  I believe this is about $1 more per point than a resale GW point (when and if available).  At the 8,400 and 9,600 HHV point levels, HHV resales points are generally going for around $3.75/pt or higher.  I'm guessing GW resale points will be at least $0.50/pt higher than HHV resale points because 1. it's a nicer resort and 2. the required point levels are higher for a 2 bdrm.

Good luck.  Btw, can you please PM me your salesperson?  Thanks.


----------



## drnd (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks to all for your response.  I think i'm going to rescind but R Chen got me thinking how difficult it is to get HGVC in hawaii resale.  Especially, GW.  What are the going rates for Hawaii do you all think it is going for 3.5/point or higher or less?

thanks.


----------



## Troopers (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> Thanks to all for your response.  I think i'm going to rescind but R Chen got me thinking how difficult it is to get HGVC in hawaii resale.  Especially, GW.  What are the going rates for Hawaii do you all think it is going for 3.5/point or higher or less?
> 
> thanks.



Resales for HGVC in Oahu Hawaii for the two existing properties (Kalia and Lagoon Tower) is readily available...just check out the ads here on TUG, Redweek.com or myresortnetwork.com.  You can check these ads to see the prices per point for yourself.


----------



## OnMedic (Jul 20, 2008)

drnd said:


> I was hoping to go for X-mas so we opted to have the points allocation start this year.



Again... how does this happen? How can he receive this years points (time/space) usage when technically none exists for his ownership?

Is Hilton holding back Club Points from HHonors conversions and other extraordinary escapes to accommodate the issuance of points/space that is created out of thin air?

No wonder Hawaii and a few others are tougher to find the availability that used to exist prior to the past 6-12 months.


----------



## Aptman (Jul 21, 2008)

*I say rescind*



drnd said:


> Thanks to all for your response.  I think i'm going to rescind but R Chen got me thinking how difficult it is to get HGVC in hawaii resale.  Especially, GW.  What are the going rates for Hawaii do you all think it is going for 3.5/point or higher or less?
> 
> thanks.



In general, everything I've read on these boards for the last year tell me RESCIND!  You never get a good deal from the developer, and when you rescind, they may even contact you and try to sweaten the deal to get you to unrescind (that's not gospel, but I'd swear I saw that on these board before that people were contacted and asked if there was anything that could change their mind).

That being said, if you were willing to plunk down $50k plus on one week in paradise, you are in a different boat than many of us on this board, and we should recognize it.  I bought 4800 points in large part because I will cram my family, including 2 kids under 10, into a 1 bd apartment with them sharing the pull-out couch (it's a helluvalot better than a single hotel room).  However, my 1 week in a 1bd cost me 10% of your 1 week in a comparative mansion.  If you have that kind of money, and the certainty of location, time, and luxury is so important to you, then I say go for it.  It's not smart economically, but you obviously have some means that make this not beyond the pale of purchases (it would be for me).

If you are willing to work a little, spend some time on these boards, perhaps sweat out the reservations a slight bit (not as much as I do, having to reserve at 9 months), stay in a slightly lesser paradise at times, or at least do some serious thinking about what you need vs. want, then I think you can easily save $20-30k.  If you want it easily and without thinking or bothering, then by all means, stick with it, don't rescind, and pay the premium.  TUG is for those who are willing to do a little hard work to save a penny, and we don't always get the guaranteed best place at the best time every time, but we compromise in order to save over 50%.

It all just matters what's most important to you.  Good luck.  But consider, it's the people who plunk down that $50k that make all those nice improvements that cheapskates like I get to enjoy for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## alwysonvac (Jul 21, 2008)

> Of course, they are expanding with Kingsland and the Grand Waik, so this may create more availability,



This this will be short term since we'll have many more Orlando and Vegas members in the near future due to the massive Ruby Lake (Projected to include 1,200 units) and Las Vegas Strip projects (Projected to include 1,582 unit) .


----------



## Bill4728 (Jul 21, 2008)

Aptman said:


> That being said, if you were willing to plunk down $50k plus on one week in paradise, you are in a different boat than many of us on this board, and we should recognize it.  I bought 4800 points in large part because I will cram my family, including 2 kids under 10, into a 1 bd apartment with them sharing the pull-out couch (it's a helluvalot better than a single hotel room).  However, my 1 week in a 1bd cost me 10% of your 1 week in a comparative mansion.  If you have that kind of money, and the certainty of location, time, and luxury is so important to you, then I say go for it.  It's not smart economically, but you obviously have some means that make this not beyond the pale of purchases (it would be for me).


Before I spend $50K on a TS, I'd look at fractionals. 

Read some posts on the "non traditional" board. You'll hear stories of getting a complete 3 bedroom house in Hawaii instead of a 2bd TS/condo. 

Steamboat Bill is the king of the high end fractionals.


----------



## jehb2 (Jul 21, 2008)

Aptman said:


> In general, everything I've read on these boards for the last year tell me RESCIND!  You never get a good deal from the developer, and when you rescind, they may even contact you and try to sweaten the deal to get you to unrescind (that's not gospel, but I'd swear I saw that on these board before that people were contacted and asked if there was anything that could change their mind).
> 
> That being said, if you were willing to plunk down $50k plus on one week in paradise, you are in a different boat than many of us on this board, and we should recognize it.  I bought 4800 points in large part because I will cram my family, including 2 kids under 10, into a 1 bd apartment with them sharing the pull-out couch (it's a helluvalot better than a single hotel room).  However, my 1 week in a 1bd cost me 10% of your 1 week in a comparative mansion.  If you have that kind of money, and the certainty of location, time, and luxury is so important to you, then I say go for it.  It's not smart economically, but you obviously have some means that make this not beyond the pale of purchases (it would be for me).
> 
> ...



*Well said.*


----------



## Troopers (Jul 22, 2008)

Aptman said:


> If you are willing to work a little, spend some time on these boards, perhaps sweat out the reservations a slight bit (not as much as I do, having to reserve at 9 months), stay in a slightly lesser paradise at times, or at least do some serious thinking about what you need vs. want, then I think you can easily save $20-30k.  If you want it easily and without thinking or bothering, then by all means, stick with it, don't rescind, and pay the premium.  TUG is for those who are willing to do a little hard work to save a penny, and we don't always get the guaranteed best place at the best time every time, but we compromise in order to save over 50%.



I agree with this howver there's a middle ground option which is to buy resale at HHV.  This will allow the OP to save around $15k.  The OP said that he loves Hawaii and loves the home reservation period.  If he wants it easily and without thinking or bothering, he doesn't necessarily have to stick with it and not rescind.  He can buy HHV resale and still have his home reservation period.


----------



## drnd (Jul 22, 2008)

Can anyone recommend a resale agent?  Has anyone worked with GORDON WYANT?


----------



## UWSurfer (Jul 22, 2008)

Seth Nock is very popular here.  Many of us on TUG have bought from him and he's always able to answer questions, whether you buy from him or not.

www.sellingtimeshares.net


----------



## eakhat (Jul 22, 2008)

I sent you a PM regarding Gordon.


----------



## drnd (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks Eakhat for the advice.


----------

