# Vv key west 2 br lock off gold plus



## Jimzigg (Oct 7, 2013)

I have spent last 30 days reading and learning.  I can get this mand resort with 81k for a very nominal fee but biggest concern is whether mfs are worth it.  Some open ??  1). Trying to predict ii value of depositing 2 units.  Any real experience here from current owners of same?  Wife wants to exch for exotic places like little huts on water type stuff but unless u can bank multiple yrs weeks and combine them i dont see any chance of an ii exch using an orlando villa. 2). Is it feasible to exchnage for a unit with better rent value and rent the unit out in yrs we do not want to vacation to cover 1500 mf?  I heard starwood frowns on this?  I do note wsj is best rental value but see the so chart change in 2015 will restrict 81k to a studio hillside.  3) confirm we can cancel and rebook reservations subject to avail with no loss of flexibility at over 60 days out.  I know the general rule of buy home resort where u will use and book home resort at 12 mos as a backup and exchange resort at 8 mos.  4). Realistic rental fees to expect from our vv unit split into 2 1 br rentals in gold plus weeks.  I love tug as a new tugger!


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## gtm2011 (Oct 8, 2013)

I wouldn't recommend buying a Gold Plus 2BD LO at VV KW, so I would pass on even a free one. 

1) only real trade value is Starwood preference in II
2) possible, but against the rules if it isn't your home resort
3) correct, but you currently have a $29 fee to cancel a non-home resort reservation and you have to consider the SO banking deadline. 
4) less than MFs, probably a lot




Jimzigg said:


> I have spent last 30 days reading and learning.  I can get this mand resort with 81k for a very nominal fee but biggest concern is whether mfs are worth it.  Some open ??  1). Trying to predict ii value of depositing 2 units.  Any real experience here from current owners of same?  Wife wants to exch for exotic places like little huts on water type stuff but unless u can bank multiple yrs weeks and combine them i dont see any chance of an ii exch using an orlando villa. 2). Is it feasible to exchnage for a unit with better rent value and rent the unit out in yrs we do not want to vacation to cover 1500 mf?  I heard starwood frowns on this?  I do note wsj is best rental value but see the so chart change in 2015 will restrict 81k to a studio hillside.  3) confirm we can cancel and rebook reservations subject to avail with no loss of flexibility at over 60 days out.  I know the general rule of buy home resort where u will use and book home resort at 12 mos as a backup and exchange resort at 8 mos.  4). Realistic rental fees to expect from our vv unit split into 2 1 br rentals in gold plus weeks.  I love tug as a new tugger!


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## Jimzigg (Oct 8, 2013)

thanks for the advice!  i have some follow-ups but generally below, what would be a better alternative?  Kierland?  We do have 3 kids 7 or younger to orlando would get used as home resort near term but yes we can rent cheaper than mfs cost or exchnage another resort easily for orlando.  was thinking that in orlando we use the small unit of lockoff and be left with 44k SO to bank or use elsewhere in same year.  or rent larger side same week we stay for 800/week to cover part of mfs -seems cheap enough that it might rent?.



gtm2011 said:


> I wouldn't recommend buying a Gold Plus 2BD LO at VV KW, so I would pass on even a free one.
> 
> 1) only real trade value is Starwood preference in II - so basically little II exch value for non SW resorts? I read about how placing 2 units of a lockoff in II get you a premium vs deposit of the 2br...  so i was hoping that premium might get me something..
> 2) possible, but against the rules if it isn't your home resort - what hapens if they find out?  how would they find out?  anyone here been "busted"?  will resort let someone check in who is not me?
> ...


  was hoping to get 800 week for big side and 500 week for small or 1300 total just shy of 1500 mf -Sounds like the oversupply orlando might not even get me a taker at these rates and it likely sits vacant?


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## Jimzigg (Oct 8, 2013)

Sorry my follow-on ?? kind of got hidden:

1) only real trade value is Starwood preference in II - *so basically little II exch value for non SW resorts? I read about how placing 2 units of a lockoff in II get you a premium vs deposit of the 2br... so i was hoping that premium might get me something.. *2) possible, but against the rules if it isn't your home resort - what hapens if they find out? how would they find out? anyone here been "busted"? will resort let someone check in who is not me?3) correct, but you currently have a $29 fee to cancel a non-home resort reservation and you have to consider the SO banking deadline. Good to know about fee and i forgot about bank deadline of Jul1....




Jimzigg said:


> thanks for the advice!  i have some follow-ups but generally below, what would be a better alternative?  Kierland?  We do have 3 kids 7 or younger to orlando would get used as home resort near term but yes we can rent cheaper than mfs cost or exchnage another resort easily for orlando.  was thinking that in orlando we use the small unit of lockoff and be left with 44k SO to bank or use elsewhere in same year.  or rent larger side same week we stay for 800/week to cover part of mfs -seems cheap enough that it might rent?.
> 
> was hoping to get 800 week for big side and 500 week for small or 1300 total just shy of 1500 mf -Sounds like the oversupply orlando might not even get me a taker at these rates and it likely sits vacant?


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## LisaRex (Oct 8, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> 1). Trying to predict ii value of depositing 2 units.  Any real experience here from current owners of same?  Wife wants to exch for exotic places like little huts on water type stuff but unless u can bank multiple yrs weeks and combine them i dont see any chance of an ii exch using an orlando villa.



You won't get into a resort with water huts with any Starwood resale because Starwood Vacation Ownership doesn't have such a thing.  Starwood does have a HOTEL, St. Regis Bora Bora,that fits the bill, but in order to use your timeshare purchase to stay in hotels, you'd have to: a) buy from the developer, which will set you back at least $20k; and b) convert your StarOptions (timeshare currency) into StarPoints (hotel currency) for multiple years -- a notoriously bad deal. 

To give you an idea of how bad, my SVV plat 2 bdrm is worth 81k SOs, but only converts to 42k SPs (hotel currency). SRBB costs 30-35,000 SPs per night.  

So I could either spend $7000 outright for a 7 night stay at SRBB, or I could spend: 

A minimum of $20,000 to buy a Starwood timeshare
A minimum of $1200 in MFs per year x multiple years
$99 per year conversion fees x multiple years

$7000 is beginning to look like a bargain, isn't it?  Anyway, I'm sure you get the picture. 

Although you've done some research already, you're going to have to figure out if timesharing is for you at all. While it's not exactly the antithesis of a luxury hotel like SRBB, timeshares mainly appeal to people who aren't into excessive pampering.  I mean, they all come with kitchens and laundry rooms for a reason. Even Westins, which are on the higher end of timeshares, don't offer all of the amenities you'd find at luxury hotels, such as daily housekeeping, 5 star restaurants, room service, full service spas, etc.  

So my advice is to talk to your wife and see what it is you're looking for in a vacation.  If it truly is a hut on the water, you need to refocus your vacation dollars in another direction.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 8, 2013)

Got it - many thx!  

I should have qualified better that the wife likes a lot of the SVO villas in network like Hawaii, Cancun, WSJ, Harborside, Vail but we were wondering what the II exch value (once we are sick of the SVN properties using our 81k SO) would be if we buy the 2BR lock off at VV KW and deposit them as 2 1BR separate units.  Could we "easily "get an off season rental at a non SW "bora bora type" resort in a studio type room?  I am guessing the II pts assigned to the VV KW deposits would be very low based on gold plus weeks (non plat) and orlando being an oversupply mkt - but hoping to find someone who has actually used a unit like ours to trade in II with real data.

Also, we were looking at Orlando now under the "buy home resort where you will use" as our 3 kids are under 7 and love Disney.  Once they are gone though its bora bora time (as a once in lifetime trip - hopefully use II?) and we otherwise would be happy spending yrs alternating between Hawaii, WSJ, Cancun and Harborside in SVO if our SVV 81k is a good property to have for SVO trades.  WSJ point hiek notwithstanding.



LisaRex said:


> You won't get into a resort with water huts with any Starwood resale because Starwood Vacation Ownership doesn't have such a thing.  Starwood does have a HOTEL, St. Regis Bora Bora,that fits the bill, but in order to use your timeshare purchase to stay in hotels, you'd have to: a) buy from the developer, which will set you back at least $20k; and b) convert your StarOptions (timeshare currency) into StarPoints (hotel currency) for multiple years -- a notoriously bad deal.
> 
> To give you an idea of how bad, my SVV plat 2 bdrm is worth 81k SOs, but only converts to 42k SPs (hotel currency). SRBB costs 30-35,000 SPs per night.
> 
> ...


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## LisaRex (Oct 8, 2013)

There are 3 reasons I'd buy a SVV mandatory week:

a) I loved SVV and wanted to lock in a really hot week, such as Christmas, 12 months in advance so I wouldn't have to stress over an II exchange. 

b) I didn't have or want to spend a lot of money to buy WKV, but I really wanted SOs. 

c) I also wanted to enjoy Starwood advantage in II with a minimum of dollars spent.

I own an EOY SVV because I had a VOI worth 148,100 SOs and wanted to have enough SOs to get into a 3 bdrm at WSJ during platinum plus season.  I could have bought WKV, but I wanted a low-cost alternative because having enough SOs to exchange is not the same as actually being able to execute such an exchange. It's all subject to availability, you see, and the last thing I wanted to do was to spend $10k on an experiment.

So I'm a minor fan of SVV, even though others pooh pooh it. Not everyone wants to spend $15k on a WKV plat 2 bdrm, you know? 

Now, there are a few things you need to know. First, is that unlike a lot of resorts, SVV has 2 types of 2 bdrms, a lock-off and a regular 2 bdrm.  The regular 2 bedroom platinum units are worth 81k SOs, while the lockoffs are worth 95.7k SOs. It's an important distinction because if you want to do II exchanges, only the lockoffs can be split into 2 separate deposits.  You cannot do this with a regular one bedroom; you either use the whole thing or deposit the whole thing. That's a downside to owning the regular 2 bdrm.

Also, note that if you want to visit WSJ, 95.7k x 2 = 191,400, which is enough to get you into a 2 bdrm at WSJ.  81k x 2 = 162,000, which falls short.  

As far as II exchanges go, you are correct that SVV isn't going to get you very far _except_ for other Starwoods.  With the Starwood priority, if you play your cards right, it will probably get you into WLR and WKORV during shoulder season, HRA during low season, SBP, WKV and SDO during shoulder season, and Orlando pretty much year round.  I highly doubt you'll ever see WSJ, HRA or WKORV in high season (whenever the kids are out of school), or any of the Colorado ski resorts in winter.  

But because Orlando resorts are so plentiful, I doubt you'll ever get a great non-Starwood exchange, such as Four Seasons Aviara. I honestly don't know of any hut-on-the-water type timeshare resorts, but I highly doubt it'd be strong enough to pull something like that. 

But owning any Starwood timeshare will get you access to II Getaways, which can be really good deals.  If you can travel in shoulder season, I've seen resorts such as Marriott Aruba, Marriott Ocean Watch, Marriott Surf Club, Marriott Canyon Villas, etc.


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## VacationForever (Oct 8, 2013)

In case this was not already pointed out in previous posts, II is unlike RCI.  There is no points assigned to deposits.  Trade value is not a number that you can see.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 8, 2013)

I would prob buy more for b and c.  a is somewhat relevant because my kids like Disney but not svv per se.  Gold plus weeks would not be considered hot.  Definately do not want spend much considering the mfs are 1500.  I would be paying 1000 incl closing for a 2 br lockoff at kw gold plus weeks.  Until I saw the wsj so hike I figured 81k could get me anywhere for a 1 br shoulder or off season.  But now I have to bank for wsj it appears.  So I am sort of stuck on this one or considering kierland or looking for a 2 br vv play week preferably a lockoff but the 95700 is a weird number of so I am not sure it's worth the extra $$






LisaRex said:


> There are 3 reasons I'd buy a SVV mandatory week:
> 
> a) I loved SVV and wanted to lock in a really hot week, such as Christmas, 12 months in advance so I wouldn't have to stress over an II exchange.
> 
> ...


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## Jimzigg (Oct 8, 2013)

Ahhhh thx for pointing that out I had no idea....  Tough for me to gauge how much value people have gotten in ii for a similar unit then I guess ....





sptung said:


> In case this was not already pointed out in previous posts, II is unlike RCI.  There is no points assigned to deposits.  Trade value is not a number that you can see.


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## Newportbeach (Oct 8, 2013)

I would just that using a 2 bedroom lock-out in II is very much like craps in Vegas.  You throw the dice and see what happens.  I have done it for several years, and sometimes I get 2 one bedrooms at Maui Westin in the first two weeks of Sept.  Ok for me, but I don't have small children.  For a family with the limit of vacation time availability, you really should give II 3-5 resorts and
8 or more weeks per year you are looking for and then see if you are lucky.  Give one or two resorts and 2-4 weeks per year and your odds are very low.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

Based on helpful feedback here I have put my purchase of annual gold plus float SVV KW 2BR LO with 81k SO on hold.  Puchase price is $1,000 incl closing which I thought was a really good deal.

I priced out some WKV and the cost to go in is just too high for me- I am seeing $5,000.

I guess the best alternative would be to look for same SVV unit in Plat weeks with 95.7k SO.  MFs will be same after all.  Have seen some with ridiculous asking prices ($12k plus) and when I say I want to pay $2500 I get laughed off by the agents.  Realistically, what is the approx mkt value on this?  I figured 2500 based on the 1000 I can pay for the gold plus unit....  Maybe I am off?

Is the gold plus unit at 1,000 a good enough deal I should just pull trigger and live with 81k?  

look forward to opinions and feedback!






Newportbeach said:


> I would just that using a 2 bedroom lock-out in II is very much like craps in Vegas.  You throw the dice and see what happens.  I have done it for several years, and sometimes I get 2 one bedrooms at Maui Westin in the first two weeks of Sept.  Ok for me, but I don't have small children.  For a family with the limit of vacation time availability, you really should give II 3-5 resorts and
> 8 or more weeks per year you are looking for and then see if you are lucky.  Give one or two resorts and 2-4 weeks per year and your odds are very low.


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> I guess the best alternative would be to look for same SVV unit in Plat weeks with 95.7k SO.  MFs will be same after all.



Actually the 2 bdrm LOs worth 95.7k SOs have higher MFs than the regular 2 bdrm units since their sq footage is higher.

I'd try to get a platinum 2 bdrm or 2 bdrm lockoff.  Same MFs, more SOs.  You should be able to get one for under $2500.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

the mfs on the tabled deal are $1496.  it is a 2BR *lockoff* in gold plus weeks which puts SO at 81k.  i can buy for $1000 incl closing.  Same mfs as a 2br LO in plat weeks correct or no?  same SF just one is gold plus weeks float and the other is plat weeks float.

Sounds like your advice it keep shopping for same unit but in plat weeks 95.7k SO at $2500 or less.  know anyone selling at my price?  i did check here on tug......




LisaRex said:


> Actually the 2 bdrm LOs worth 95.7k SOs have higher MFs than the regular 2 bdrm units since their sq footage is higher.
> 
> I'd try to get a platinum 2 bdrm or 2 bdrm lockoff.  Same MFs, more SOs.  You should be able to get one for under $2500.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

just checked ebay and there is a SVV KW 2 BR non LO in plat weeks starting bid $1.  mfs are 1200.  interested in thoughts about giving up the LO unit i have tabled for a straight 2 BR but gaining plat weeks vs gold plus?  

also saves me 300 annually in mfs but i cannot split units.  but is it worth giving up ability to split units to gain the plat weeks?  could prob get it cheaper than the $1000 deal i have now......  still 81k SO




Jimzigg said:


> the mfs on the tabled deal are $1496.  it is a 2BR *lockoff* in gold plus weeks which puts SO at 81k.  i can buy for $1000 incl closing.  Same mfs as a 2br LO in plat weeks correct or no?  same SF just one is gold plus weeks float and the other is plat weeks float.
> 
> Sounds like your advice it keep shopping for same unit but in plat weeks 95.7k SO at $2500 or less.  know anyone selling at my price?  i did check here on tug......


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> the mfs on the tabled deal are $1496.  it is a 2BR *lockoff* in gold plus weeks which puts SO at 81k.  i can buy for $1000 incl closing.  Same mfs as a 2br LO in plat weeks correct or no?  same SF just one is gold plus weeks float and the other is plat weeks float.
> 
> Sounds like your advice it keep shopping for same unit but in plat weeks 95.7k SO at $2500 or less.  know anyone selling at my price?  i did check here on tug......



I think you'd be able to pick up a platinum 2 bdrm worth 81k for ~$2.5k.  Lockoff will probably go for a bit higher. 

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything but a platinum because moving forward the MFs are the same for the same size unit, but you'll get more SOs to work with. The difference in price would not be enough to induce me to go for a gold plus week.

Ebay is usually the lowest price.  Just buy from someone who has an excellent rating.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

Lisa REx - I am really finding your advice valuable thx for helping.

so your advice would be to buy a *straight 2BR in plat weeks* for approx 2500 vs the *2 br Lockoff in gold weeks *i have on table now?  this will cost me an extra $1500 (2500 vs 1000).  i still have 81k either way....  so the $1500 cost diff is worth it just for the diff in weeks?  and i lose the ability to split..........

just asking cuz i thought there was significsnt value in splitting lockoffs and did not realize the plat weeks vs gold would give me so much more inherent "value". 





LisaRex said:


> I think you'd be able to pick up a platinum 2 bdrm worth 81k for ~$2.5k.  Lockoff will probably go for a bit higher.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't buy anything but a platinum because moving forward the MFs are the same for the same size unit, but you'll get more SOs to work with. The difference in price would not be enough to induce me to go for a gold plus week.
> 
> Ebay is usually the lowest price.  Just buy from someone who has an excellent rating.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

woops - sorry i didnt note that i would save $300/yr in MFs going the route i think u r suggesting so i would make back my $1500 in 5 yrs but still lose the split option.




Jimzigg said:


> Lisa REx - I am really finding your advice valuable thx for helping.
> 
> so your advice would be to buy a *straight 2BR in plat weeks* for approx 2500 vs the *2 br Lockoff in gold weeks *i have on table now?  this will cost me an extra $1500 (2500 vs 1000).  i still have 81k either way....  so the $1500 cost diff is worth it just for the diff in weeks?  and i lose the ability to split..........
> 
> just asking cuz i thought there was significsnt value in splitting lockoffs and did not realize the plat weeks vs gold would give me so much more inherent "value".


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2013)

Well, let's see, the difference in MFs between the LO and non-LO are around $300 per year.  So it would take you 5 years to break even on the difference in purchase price.  After that, you'll be losing $300 per year buying the gold plus v. the platinum, though you retain the ability to split the L/O.

Truly, it's up to you.  I can see a case for either.  It's a shame you cannot find a platinum L/O,although the purchase price would be higher.  However, unless you have a plan for spending those extra SOs, I guess it's not necessary to get the 95.7k SOs, assuming WSJ is the only resort that is going to change its SO assignment!

Key West		

2 bdrm platinum worth 81k SOs = $958.06
cost per SO: $0.0118

2 bdrm gold+ worth 67100 SOs = $958.06
cost per SO: $0.0143

2 bdrm LO platinum worth 95700 SOs = $1263.07
cost per SO: $0.0132

2 bdrm LO gold+ worth 81000 SOs = $1263.07
cost per SO: $0.0156

Difference in MFs	between LO and non-LO: $305.01

Bella				
2 bdrm platinum worth 81000 SOs= $980.44
cost per SO: $0.0121

2 bdrm gold+ worth 67100 SOs=$980.44
cost per SO: $0.0146

2 bdrm L/O platinum worth 95700 SOs= $1270.35
cost per SO: $0.0133

2 bdrm LO gold+ worth 81000 SOs= $1270.35
cost per SO: $0.0157

difference in MFs between L/O and non-L/O $289.91


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

great analysis- and thank you again!  tough decision but i would prob lean toward having split option and taking gold weeks.

WSJ hike does worry me so going from 81k to 95.7k would help.

but all along i was thinking that, if we buy the gold weeks LO unit with 81k, we could use orlando for disney one yr and stay in the small side of the lockoff for 37,000 SO and bank 44,000.

the next year we would have 81 +44 or 125k SO to sue for WSJ.

under the new SO matrix in 2015 that would get us a 3BR in weeks 34-50 (worst season) and we could take extended family with.  this assumes we can book it 8 mos out.  in the bad season everybody wants Nov so it might be tough.

I did find a 2BR LO in plat for 3000 plus closing but they would not budge on price so i would be at 3500 vs 1000 for the 2BR LO gold.  Same mfs of 1500 per year.

It does make sense to look at mfs as biggest expense and since they cost you the same, might as well spend a bit more upfront and get the plat week LO vs gold and get the addl 14.7k SO on top of it.



LisaRex said:


> Well, let's see, the difference in MFs between the LO and non-LO are around $300 per year.  So it would take you 5 years to break even on the difference in purchase price.  After that, you'll be losing $300 per year buying the gold plus v. the platinum, though you retain the ability to split the L/O.
> 
> Truly, it's up to you.  I can see a case for either.  It's a shame you cannot find a platinum L/O,although the purchase price would be higher.  However, unless you have a plan for spending those extra SOs, I guess it's not necessary to get the 95.7k SOs, assuming WSJ is the old resort that is going to change its SO assignment!
> 
> ...


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> I did find a 2BR LO in plat for 3000 plus closing but they would not budge on price so i would be at 3500 vs 1000 for the 2BR LO gold.  Same mfs of 1500 per year.



If that's the one on MRN, it's gone now.  I just sealed the deal this morning. Sorry!

P.S. I bought it to complement my EOY unit.  I only needed an EOY to get to the required 176,700 SOs to exchange into WSJ during platinum plus season, but I couldn't find one.


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## s1b000 (Oct 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> If that's the one on MRN, it's gone now.  I just sealed the deal this morning. Sorry!
> 
> P.S. I bought it to complement my EOY unit.  I only needed an EOY to get to the required 176,700 SOs to exchange into WSJ during platinum plus season, but I couldn't find one.



Lisa, what is MRN?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 9, 2013)

s1b000 said:


> Lisa, what is MRN?



My Resort Network.


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## s1b000 (Oct 9, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> My Resort Network.



Thanks have never heard of it


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## Jimzigg (Oct 9, 2013)

That was the one!  Enjoy!
My other one also got sold so anyone who pmd me on it it is gone.  Went for 1500 on ebay...  1000 WAS a great deal for 81k......




LisaRex said:


> If that's the one on MRN, it's gone now.  I just sealed the deal this morning. Sorry!
> 
> P.S. I bought it to complement my EOY unit.  I only needed an EOY to get to the required 176,700 SOs to exchange into WSJ during platinum plus season, but I couldn't find one.


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## s1b000 (Oct 9, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> That was the one!  Enjoy!
> My other one also got sold so anyone who pmd me on it it is gone.  Went for 1500 on ebay...  1000 WAS a great deal for 81k......



Ah, I lost that one by a measley $4


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## Jimzigg (Oct 10, 2013)

Yes I heard it went for $1504.  Thats sucks!



s1b000 said:


> Ah, I lost that one by a measley $4


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## SMHarman (Oct 10, 2013)

s1b000 said:


> Ah, I lost that one by a measley $4


Or someone overpaid by $4 considering that your max bid should have been the max you considered it worth :ignore:
eSnipe and set the max price you think it is worth.  In time you will discover you are undervaluing the item you want to buy or that you will win an auction.


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## s1b000 (Oct 10, 2013)

Lol thanks will check out esnipe


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## Jimzigg (Oct 11, 2013)

Update:  found a couple SVV 2br LO in plat season with 95.7k SO.  one unit deeded wk 26 in bella on 5th floor and one unit deeded wk 27 in KW on 1st floor.  Both listed with agent at $4995.  trying to frame up offers in the 2000 plus closing range and hoping to get some help:

1) Which section is "better"?  bella appears 5 yrs older but was recently renovated?  effect on MFs?  
2) Any drawbacks to floors?  5 vs 1?  I see they have balconies so maybe 1st floor kind of sucks since it is a patio?  Elevator issues (up/down waiting) with 5th floor?
3) The agent/broker uses a closing/escorw company and fees are est at $800!!  most are around $500.  does not incl title ins.  i have already looked up deeds, liens and verified with Dec of Condo doing public records search.  do not have estoppel letters as i hear they only will release to woner or title co.  has anyone went direct to buyers and tried to convince them to close the deal outside of the agent/title company?  just an idea, may not be feasible.

thanks in advance!


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## LisaRex (Oct 11, 2013)

Unless you buy a fixed week/fixed unit (unlikely at SVV because view isn't as critical as when you're looking over an ocean), the floor and unit number is irrelevant.  They are only used for deeding purposes so that they don't oversell the place. Even if you book your home resort, you are unlikely to be placed in that unit.  Just confirm that the unit is platinum as season is what matters. 

But if you want to look at the different phases, look at the different villas here:

http://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/sheraton-vistana-villages/villas/

MFs are about the same.  There is no SA at Bella to the best of my knowledge though if the info they put on MSC.com is accurate 2014 fees will go up.  Not sure how much because I am uncertain whether the number they gave ($674 for an EOY 2 bdrm) includes the SVN fee. 

2013 fees are:

SVV Key West
1br $465.60
2br $958.06
2 br lo $1263.73
3 br lo $1729.33

SVV Bella

1 br $454.98
2 br $980.44
2br l/o $1270.35

*Does not include the SVN membership fee.

Bella is undergoing renovations now, IIRC, so I'd opt for that phase if you intend to actually use your week and all other things are equal. 

The agent I am using to close my SVV week is a licensed broker in Florida and he is charging $565.  Certainly try to negotiate the fee.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 11, 2013)

OK - understood. the pics on that site make Key West look more appealing but if Bella will be freshly renovated I see your pt as long as the MFs dont spike I guess.  I did not get anywhere on closing cost negotiation unfortunately.  I will also search on opinions here about pool diffs and such which I think I ran across one time here.  



LisaRex said:


> Unless you buy a fixed week/fixed unit (unlikely at SVV because view isn't as critical as when you're looking over an ocean), the floor and unit number is irrelevant.  They are only used for deeding purposes so that they don't oversell the place. Even if you book your home resort, you are unlikely to be placed in that unit.  Just confirm that the unit is platinum as season is what matters.
> 
> But if you want to look at the different phases, look at the different villas here:
> 
> ...


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## czar (Oct 11, 2013)

Still think you may want to consider a standard 2br and 1br. Only slightly higher MF coat as compared to LO. Same flexibility - actually more in some ways. SVV Key West MF:
1br $465.60 (44k)
2br $958.06 (81k)
2 br lo $1263.73 (95.7k)

So for $1423 (plus addl SVN fee for 2nd unit) you get 125k SO. Almost 30k more SO for only $160 more as compared to the LO. You could probably get both units upfront for $3500. You can still trade one or both in II. And trading the 1br is cheaper than splitting and trading the LO since a 1br is about $170 less in MF as compared to 1/2 the LO.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 12, 2013)

This is a good point.  I will take a look.  Paying 1000 in closing costs on 2 units would not make me happy but I will def check it out.  Am I more exposed to mf increases by owning 2?  Would I also have to pay separate so bank fees for each unit?  Or any other disadvantage to owning 2 vs 1 unit.



czar said:


> Still think you may want to consider a standard 2br and 1br. Only slightly higher MF coat as compared to LO. Same flexibility - actually more in some ways. SVV Key West MF:
> 1br $465.60 (44k)
> 2br $958.06 (81k)
> 2 br lo $1263.73 (95.7k)
> ...


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## LisaRex (Oct 12, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> This is a good point.  I will take a look.  Paying 1000 in closing costs on 2 units would not make me happy but I will def check it out.  Am I more exposed to mf increases by owning 2?  Would I also have to pay separate so bank fees for each unit?  Or any other disadvantage to owning 2 vs 1 unit.



The banking fee is $99 (currently) whether your bank 1 SO or 100,000 SOs. Also, some MFs are higher for owning either side of a lockoff vs owning the entire lockoff. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1421750&postcount=90


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## Jimzigg (Oct 30, 2013)

*134k SO odd biennial MF question*

I was following a ebay listing for 2 weeks at VV Key West with 134k SO.  Basically the deed had two 2BR units on it at 1 week each and 67,100 SO each.  Can someone tell me how the MFs are billed for odd biennial (yearly?) and how much they would be for this set up?


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## LisaRex (Oct 30, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> I was following a ebay listing for 2 weeks at VV Key West with 134k SO.  Basically the deed had two 2BR units on it at 1 week each and 67,100 SO each.  Can someone tell me how the MFs are billed for odd biennial (yearly?) and how much they would be for this set up?



EOY units pay a bit more than 50% of MFs each year.  If your first use is 2015, first half will be due within the next month or two (and you should make clear who is responsible for the 2014 MFs in the contract).  So if an annual 2 bdrm is $1000, you'll pay around $530 for two years.  You also get charged the SVN fee, ~$150 per year for the first unit, every year.  So that's something to consider wiht an EOY unit.


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## czar (Oct 30, 2013)

Jimzigg said:


> I was following a ebay listing for 2 weeks at VV Key West with 134k SO.  Basically the deed had two 2BR units on it at 1 week each and 67,100 SO each.  Can someone tell me how the MFs are billed for odd biennial (yearly?) and how much they would be for this set up?



This is a bad setup since you're paying the same MF as plat and the upfront cost for a plat 2br should be $2500 or less. I would not purchase gold plus SVV. You're paying a lot per SO that way. On top of that you're paying the addl SVN fee per year as LR pointed out.


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## Jimzigg (Oct 30, 2013)

Ok thx for the help.  Makes sense to hold out for plat weeks since mfs are same either way.  





czar said:


> This is a bad setup since you're paying the same MF as plat and the upfront cost for a plat 2br should be $2500 or less. I would not purchase gold plus SVV. You're paying a lot per SO that way. On top of that you're paying the addl SVN fee per year as LR pointed out.


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## Jimzigg (Apr 9, 2014)

*Deal on the table for SVV - any advice*

Updating an old thread here so I apologize.  I am working with a timeshare sales firm with 100% positive feedback (3009 hits).  Offering me annual platinum weeks at SVV - bella or key west sections as follows for purchase of two separate weeks/units:

44k SO- 1BR
81k SO - 2BR

Price is $2,500 all-in incl closing costs ($900).  I pay MF's for 2015.  Seller has paid and uses 2014. 

MF's would be roughly:

1br $466 (44k)
2br $958 (81k)

Plus Annual SVN fee for 2 weeks is now $178 I believe.  Almost seems like a deal too good to be true for 125k SO's?


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## LisaRex (Apr 9, 2014)

Sounds like a great strategy.  Thanks czar for the great idea.  I wish I'd have thought of it!


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## Jimzigg (Apr 9, 2014)

I second that czar!


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## Jimzigg (Aug 12, 2014)

*2 BR LO at SVV Bella Platinum 95.7k SO annually*

I had a purch contract on my desk at $2500 incl closing and just walked away.  The $1500 in annual MFs just kill the deal.  Hope I didn't make a mistake, but when I put pen to paper the only resorts I cannot seem to rent for $1500 a week are WSJ, Hawaii, Harborside and Ski season in CO?  Seems that on all the other resorts I either break even or lose money vs a rental.  I do not see myself visting the 4 often enough to make it worthwhile, and at 8 mos out, really hard to reserve.  I am renting SVV from an owner of 4 Sheraton weeks in Jan 2015 for $800 on a 2 BR LO.  He said he would rent me Cancun for $1200 in Jan 2016.  So I am ahead already on both of those.  
Can anyone recommend a good II trader or location (doesn't have to be Starwood I guess) that can be had close to free with MFs in 400-600 range to put into II or RCI just to see what it can pull if I want to visit other resorts outside SVN?


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## czar (Aug 12, 2014)

You didn't make a mistake. Once you buy, it's yours so if it's not the right fit or feeling, you did the absolute right thing. 

From my perspective, the reasons to buy mandatory are the ability to use SVN and resale value. Unlike you, I wanted a mandatory property so I could get into the tougher resorts, like WSJ, Harborside, and WKORV. So for my situation it was worth investing in units that had SO. As an example, I was able to book a 2br Easter week at WKORV using my SO. MF cost was high but still nearly $2k less than the cost of renting from an owner. 

For other Starwood properties, trading is much easier and rentals are cheaper than MF. So if those are your typical destinations, then a good trader is your better bet.

FWIW, I ended up buying WSJ so it's guaranteed. 



Jimzigg said:


> I had a purch contract on my desk at $2500 incl closing and just walked away.  The $1500 in annual MFs just kill the deal.  Hope I didn't make a mistake, but when I put pen to paper the only resorts I cannot seem to rent for $1500 a week are WSJ, Hawaii, Harborside and Ski season in CO?  Seems that on all the other resorts I either break even or lose money vs a rental.  I do not see myself visting the 4 often enough to make it worthwhile, and at 8 mos out, really hard to reserve.  I am renting SVV from an owner of 4 Sheraton weeks in Jan 2015 for $800 on a 2 BR LO.  He said he would rent me Cancum for $1200 in Jan 2016.  So I am ahead already on both of those.
> Can anyone recommend a good II trader or location (doesn't have to be Starwood I guess) that can be had close to free with MFs in 400-600 range to put into II or RCI just to see what it can pull if I want to visit other resorts outside SVN?


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## GrayFal (Mar 27, 2015)

czar said:


> Still think you may want to consider a standard 2br and 1br. Only slightly higher MF coat as compared to LO. Same flexibility - actually more in some ways. SVV Key West MF:
> 1br $465.60 (44k)
> 2br $958.06 (81k)
> 2 br lo $1263.73 (95.7k)
> ...





LisaRex said:


> The banking fee is $99 (currently) whether your bank 1 SO or 100,000 SOs. Also, some MFs are higher for owning either side of a lockoff vs owning the entire lockoff.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1421750&postcount=90





Jimzigg said:


> Updating an old thread here so I apologize.  I am working with a timeshare sales firm with 100% positive feedback (3009 hits).  Offering me annual platinum weeks at SVV - bella or key west sections as follows for purchase of two separate weeks/units:
> 
> 44k SO- 1BR
> 81k SO - 2BR
> ...





LisaRex said:


> Sounds like a great strategy.  Thanks czar for the great idea.  I wish I'd have thought of it!


Thank you LisaRex for directing me to this thread. 

Does all this info still hold true?


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## LisaRex (Mar 27, 2015)

I think so.  My only caveat re buying 2 vs. 1 VOI is that if you bank the SOs, you'll have to pay $99 for each one.  So take that into account when determining your cost per SO.


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## GrayFal (Mar 27, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> I think so.  My only caveat re buying 2 vs. 1 VOI is that if you bank the SOs, you'll have to pay $99 for each one.  So take that into account when determining your cost per SO.



Ah, good to know.....so I would need to manage the SOs so that I use ALL the SOs in one VOI so would only have one fee to pay.....

Need to strategize about potential use patterns first before deciding how to go.   
Thanks


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## sjsharkie (Mar 27, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> I think so.  My only caveat re buying 2 vs. 1 VOI is that if you bank the SOs, you'll have to pay $99 for each one.  So take that into account when determining your cost per SO.



I banked 2 x 44k SOs in 2013 (2 SVV Plat 1BR units) and was only charged $99 for the whole transaction.

Did they change the rules or did I get lucky?  I had always thought it was $99 to bank any amount of SOs.

-ryan


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## DeniseM (Mar 27, 2015)

You are charged each time you bank Staroptions, but you can combine Staroptions from multiple deeds and bank them all at the same time for one fee.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


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## GrayFal (Mar 27, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> You are charged each time you bank Staroptions, but you can combine Staroptions from multiple deeds and bank them all at the same time for one fee.
> 
> Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk




Thanks.  Good to know. 

And for regular members you must bank by July 1?
And this is only for EY contracts, not EOY?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LisaRex (Mar 27, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> You are charged each time you bank Staroptions, but you can combine Staroptions from multiple deeds and bank them all at the same time for one fee.



I did not know this.  Thanks for the information!

GrayFal, you can bank EOY or EY deeds.  Deadline is July 1st of the use year, so if you have an EOY odd VOI with first usage in 2015, you'll have to bank by June 30, 2015.  SOs banked in 2015 are good through 2017.  

FYI, EOY deeds pay SVN fees yearly.  Not a big deal if you own multiple mandatory resorts, but more of a deal if it's your only one.


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## GrayFal (Mar 27, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> I did not know this.  Thanks for the information!
> 
> GrayFal, you can bank EOY or EY deeds.  Deadline is July 1st of the use year, so if you have an EOY odd VOI with first usage in 2015, you'll have to bank by June 30, 2015.  SOs banked in 2015 are good through 2017.
> 
> FYI, EOY deeds pay SVN fees yearly.  Not a big deal if you own multiple mandatory resorts, but more of a deal if it's your only one.


So the 2015 unused SO in your example would be good until Dec. 31,2017?


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## LisaRex (Mar 27, 2015)

GrayFal said:


> So the 2015 unused SO in your example would be good until Dec. 31,2017?



Yes, that is correct.


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