# Deeded Wyndham Owner



## e.bram (Jun 23, 2018)

What does it mean to be a deeded Wyndham owner?


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## Richelle (Jun 23, 2018)

It means you own points that are tied to a specific resort. This grants you ARP booking privileges to that resort. Also know as “Home” resort.   Club Wyndham Access (CWA) is a trust that is made up of deeded property. Everyone who is a member of the trust is a member and has access to the amount of points they own. In this case, they do not own anything themselves. They are a member of the trust that owns the deeded property. The benefit to this set up is they have ARP at many resorts but only to inventory that is designated as CWA. Just like you as a deeded Owner does not have access to CWA inventory in the ARP window. At the 10 month mark, points are points and you book either.


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## Richelle (Jun 23, 2018)

Page 228 of the new directory explains more. Deeded owners are part of the Wyndham Select program.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 23, 2018)

It also could mean that you own a deeded week at a resort developed or managed by Wyndham that has never been converted to points. 

Wyndham has many types of products.  
Deeded
  1.Non converted (non points) - 
      A.fixed weeks 
      B. float weeks.  
   At some resorts they even allow you to spit the float weeks into 2 or more partial week reservations.

  2. Converted weeks
      A.Converted fixed weeks
      B. Converted float weeks

 3. UDI undivided interest in the resort as a whole or a group of specific units.
      A. UDI (non presidential Reserve)
      B. Presidential Reserve UDI- undivided interest in a group of presidential reserve units at a resort.  Some resorts are 100% presidential  reserve some have just a few units.  Presidential Reserve has different priority rules.

Non Deeded
  1. RTU There are some Mexican resorts that have had some affiliation with Wyndham that are RTU and either converted fix or float.  I am not sure if there are other non US RTU resorts in the Wyndham system.
  2.  Club Wyndham Access (CWA) the far more common non deeded Wyndham product.  A deeded trust to which members purchase beneficial interests in the undivided interest of the trust.  

Some resorts have multiple types of owners at the same resort.  Some resorts have multiple phases with different HOA's and each may have a different combination of owner types. Newer resorts do not have fixed or float owner.  They are generally UDI,  presidential UDI or CWA or a combination of those types. 



e. bram, this is the third time you have asked about this.  You use different wording but in each thread the different types of Wyndham ownership are described for you.  Instead of asking follow up questions, you seem to let it go and then a month later ask again.  Are you thinking about buying something specific and want to know how it works.  You seem to want a deeded week that you don't have to do anything other than pay your MF's and show up for the week.  If that is the case your only option (and it isn't available at every Wyndham affilliated resort) is to buy a non converted fixed week.  Or to buy a converted fixed week and then have it removed from the points system.  If you buy a converted fixed week you would have priority for the week but you would have to confirm that you want to use that week during the priority period or at 10 months it would automatically be released for other points owners/members.


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## e.bram (Jun 24, 2018)

tschwa(or anybody else), what I am trying to determine is what is the legal nature of the ownership in your comment 2 ( 2 Converted weeks A.Converted fixed weeks)? And what is transferred upon transfer(sale) of that ownership? How is it documented?
Will Wyndham will allow that ownership to transferred to an ownership as in fee to the buyer of the converted week?
I hope that this post is more definitive the others I have made. Your comment has caused me to introspect in my mind(if it exists) what information I was really after but did not indicate in my posts. thanx


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## ronparise (Jun 24, 2018)

What is transferred in the case of a fixed week or converted fixed week or UDI is a fractional interest in a piece of real property.   A Deed is the instrument we use in this country to effect such a transfer

So what about points? Wyndham points are created when an owner assigns their deeded Ownership to the Fairshare Trust aka Club Wyndham Plus

UDI deeds are assigned to the trust at their creation  by the developer (Wyndham) and to my knowledge all the legal descriptions  are written something like this: “.... a  xxx,xxx/ xx,xxx,xxx,xxx
 fractional interest in the condominium project known as xxxxx in —— city,——county,——state.

The numerator in that fraction is the number of points assigned to the owner and the denominator is the total number of points in the condo project or piece  of the development.

In the case of a fixed week that has been converted to points you won’t see any reference to points in the deed. Your deed will read something like week x, unit #xx, building #x in the condo project xxx.  Or perhaps it’s as simple as a 1/52 interest in unit xx, condo project

There is also a reference in the deed to the condo docs and timeshare declaration filed at the local courthouse with the other land records of the local county

What is bought and sold is real estate not points. Points are part of the deal but in the language of Wall Street; points are derivatives

Bottom line, in the Wyndham system you own a fractional interest in a piece of real property and points are assigned to that ownership when the owner assigned their use rights to the trust. (Or club) Points are the currency used to exchange your use rights with other owners in the club.

 Or put another way club Wyndham is an exchange program and points are the medium of exchange


Oh and for those of you that may not know. The op is a troll. He has been on this forum a long time and he knows very well what a deeded Ownership is and what it means and how the Wyndham system works

He is just trying to show us just how dumb we all are


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## tschwa2 (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> tschwa(or anybody else), what I am trying to determine is what is the legal nature of the ownership in your comment 2 ( 2 Converted weeks A.Converted fixed weeks)? And what is transferred upon transfer(sale) of that ownership? How is it documented?
> Will Wyndham will allow that ownership to transferred to an ownership as in fee to the buyer of the converted week?
> I hope that this post is more definitive the others I have made. Your comment has caused me to introspect in my mind(if it exists) what information I was really after but did not indicate in my posts. thanx



Are you trying to verify that a converted points week will or will not remain in points upon sale if you don't indicate anything or are you trying to say that you shouldn't have to do anything to have use of a non converted week because of the deeded rights even if it has been enrolled.  Enrollment is voluntary.  At one point it was much easier and less expensive.  Many owners in other resort systems wish they could enroll into a points system even for a $2000-$4000 fee.  If you buy (or currently own) a converted fixed week, Wyndham will take it out if you make the request and follow whatever they require you to do.  It will not happen automatically just because of the deed because Wyndham's system in which the fixed week was placed when the owner decided to enroll in points agreed to the "rules" that Wyndham set up for converted fixed weeks.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 24, 2018)

ronparise said:


> What is bought and sold is real estate not points. Points are part of the deal but in the language of Wall Street; points are derivatives
> 
> Bottom line, in the Wyndham system you own a fractional interest in a piece of real property and points are assigned to that ownership when the owner assigned their use rights to the trust. (Or club) Points are the currency used to exchange your use rights with other owners in the club.
> 
> ...



I agree the OP has done his share of trolling in the past.  He is much more chill now than years ago.  I am assuming that he or someone he knows is looking to buy a specific wyndham offering and wants to verify that he gets what he thinks he is getting.

There are also a lot of newer wyndham buyers looking to buy resale (which is a little harder to find thanks to ovations), after attending a presentation, who might need to understand all of the different types of points that they might come across on the resale market.


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## e.bram (Jun 24, 2018)

I would like to know exactly what occurred when someone went from a fixed week, fixed unit owner to a converted Wyndham week owner. Exactly what legal transactions(deed transfers, contracts etc.) were effected.

Here is one scenario I surmised from my interactions so far.

1.Weeks owner deeds(which contains the UDI and fixed week designation) his fixed week, fixed unit to a Wyndahm entity(Eastern Resorts Company LLC.  and agrees with Wyndham for a points contract.

2. Wyndham entity deeds(which contains the UDI and fixed week designation) back to the original weeks owner exactly the week deeded to them and is obligated to the points contract.

3. Weeks owner can sell his TS by deeding his week to another party with the new party either accepting or declining the Wyndham points contract?

4. Are the points obligations attached to the deed to the converted week ?


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## tschwa2 (Jun 24, 2018)

"No one really knows...
How the sausage gets made
We just assume that it happens
But no one else is in
The room where it happens"  The room where it happens-  Hamilton- the musical

I don't know the exact mechanism.  Get a job in the legal department with Wyndham if you want to know the exact details and use your down time to research.
The points obligation never is recorded as a deeded obligation.  It's probably somewhere in the 300+ page trust papers or in one of thousands of other legal Wyndham papers.  If you purchase a converted fixed week that is not removed from the points system, you are accepting the points benefits and obligations as defined somewhere by Wyndham.  If you don't like that or don't want that or can't be bothered to take the steps to remove the week from the points program, then don't purchase a converted fixed week from Wyndham.  There are lots of other systems that automatically remove converted weeks from the points system upon sale and require a $10,000-$30,000 additional purchase in order to re-enroll.  

Another option I suppose would be to sue wyndham and ask for every scrap of legal documentation of the system for discovery and then wade through it yourself.  You could also write to the legal department of wyndham for this information but I am not sure they need to provide it to you or would do so without a something indicating that they are required to provide it to you.


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## Braindead (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> Here is one scenario I surmised from my interactions so far.
> 
> 1.Weeks owner deeds(which contains the UDI and fixed week designation) his fixed week


For starters a fixed week never becomes a UDI contract.
UDI is a deeded ownership if you own at a single resort.
Fixed week is a deeded ownership.
Fixed week deeded converted to points. From my experience the converted points are not part of the deeded ownership.
You have a deed that shows you have a fixed week ownership. Converting to points Wyndham handles internally. 
Same for a float week converted to points.
My converted weeks to points doesn’t show on any of my deeds. Deed only shows the week or float week. All points are handled outside of the deed has been my experience.


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## Braindead (Jun 24, 2018)

Also that’s why if you fall behind on MFs Wyndham just drops the converted week out of the points program at will.
The deed doesn’t get changed or amended. Your out of the points program and if you want back in Wyndham can charge you a fee or make you buy more developer points to convert the week back to points again
Points on a converted week is not a deeded right


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## e.bram (Jun 24, 2018)

Braindead:
All of my TS deeds(3 separate properties) all include a paragraph of an undivided interest 1/xxx to the whole property as well as a reference paragraph describing the fixed or floating week.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> Braindead:
> All of my TS deeds(3 separate properties) all include a paragraph of an undivided interest 1/xxx to the whole property as well as a reference paragraph describing the fixed or floating week.


Usually that is referring to the common areas.  You don't just own your unit, you are a partial owner in the pool, the lobby, lobby bathrooms, exercise room, parking lot, etc and responsible for your part of the maintenance in those common areas.


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## Braindead (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> Braindead:
> All of my TS deeds(3 separate properties) all include a paragraph of an undivided interest 1/xxx to the whole property as well as a reference paragraph describing the fixed or floating week.


Your 1/50 or 1/52 is not a UDI points contract.
All I can say is what appears on mine


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## e.bram (Jun 24, 2018)

What is a UDI points contract?


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## Braindead (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> What is a UDI points contract?


You can go play gotcha with someone else!! See YA


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## tschwa2 (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> What is a UDI points contract?


You asked and that was answered the last two times you started on this topic.  That was why I didn't specifically go into that detail especially as your reported interest was in converted and non converted fixed week deeds.


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## ronparise (Jun 24, 2018)

e.bram said:


> Braindead:
> All of my TS deeds(3 separate properties) all include a paragraph of an undivided interest 1/xxx to the whole property as well as a reference paragraph describing the fixed or floating week.



Pretty sure you are making that up

Always what to learn. Post a picture of the legal description to show I’m wrong


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## e.bram (Jun 24, 2018)

DEED.jpg


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## Braindead (Jun 25, 2018)

e.bram said:


> DEED.jpg


As I stated your deeds have nothing to do with the Wyndham points based system.
You have zero Wyndham UDI points as a deeded right of ownership.
You should PM the other Wyndham poster who likes to muddy the water and confuse owners. Have a nice chat


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## Jan M. (Jun 25, 2018)

My Wyndham deeds don't look or read like that either.


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## Roger830 (Jun 25, 2018)

My fixed week deed has: "An undivided 1/4368th interest in Sea Gardens Beach and Tennis Resort - Ocean Palms.....blah blah blah.... week xx unit xxx"

My fixed week deeds in Hollywood Sands also have undivided interest associated with them with other owners for the resort facility. There are no points there.


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## Braindead (Jun 25, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Usually that is referring to the common areas.  You don't just own your unit, you are a partial owner in the pool, the lobby, lobby bathrooms, exercise room, parking lot, etc and responsible for your part of the maintenance in those common areas.





e.bram said:


> DEED.jpg


Exactly what tscwa2 posted your paragraph on UDI is for common areas.
You have a fixed week deed and has nothing to do with UDI points on the deed as the topic of thread
The UDI part of your deed is IRRELEVANT on the topic of fixed weeks being converted to Wyndham points. So cute of you playing gotcha but IRRELEVANT!!


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## e.bram (Jun 25, 2018)

How are points documented in a Wyndham select arrangement?
Is it a lease(not recorded)agreement between the owner in fee and Wyndham which ends with the deeded sale? Like RCI points? Can it be continued? How?


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## Braindead (Jun 25, 2018)

Deleted


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## tschwa2 (Jun 25, 2018)

Since many people who own converted fixed weeks purchased them once already converted, I am not sure what the paperwork for the conversion looks like.  Converting fixed weeks is rarely done these days.  Nowadays it isn't simply a matter of paying a fee.  It requires purchasing whatever amount Wyndham sets as an additional purchase in order to convert each week.  This could range from a $10,000-$20,000 additional purchase.  The conversion remains intact including upon resale until it is removed by the owner or is removed by Wyndham is various annual/monthly fees are not paid in a timely manner.  If an owner is behind in MF's, the owner first loses access of use of the current points and Wyndham can ultimately remove them from the points program.  Use of the deeded fixed weed would not be restored until all of the owed fees are paid.


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## e.bram (Jun 25, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Since many people who own converted fixed weeks purchased them once already converted, I am not sure what the paperwork for the conversion looks like.  Converting fixed weeks is rarely done these days.  Nowadays it isn't simply a matter of paying a fee.  It requires purchasing whatever amount Wyndham sets as an additional purchase in order to convert each week.  This could range from a $10,000-$20,000 additional purchase.  The conversion remains intact including upon resale until it is removed by the owner or is removed by Wyndham is various annual/monthly fees are not paid in a timely manner.  If an owner is behind in MF's, the owner first loses access of use of the current points and Wyndham can ultimately remove them from the points program.  Use of the deeded fixed weed would not be restored until all of the owed fees are paid.



Is Wyndham still promoting Club Wyndham Select as opposed to CWA?


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## ronparise (Jun 25, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Since many people who own converted fixed weeks purchased them once already converted, I am not sure what the paperwork for the conversion looks like.  Converting fixed weeks is rarely done these days.  Nowadays it isn't simply a matter of paying a fee.  It requires purchasing whatever amount Wyndham sets as an additional purchase in order to convert each week.  This could range from a $10,000-$20,000 additional purchase.  The conversion remains intact including upon resale until it is removed by the owner or is removed by Wyndham is various annual/monthly fees are not paid in a timely manner.  If an owner is behind in MF's, the owner first loses access of use of the current points and Wyndham can ultimately remove them from the points program.  Use of the deeded fixed weed would not be restored until all of the owed fees are paid.



At the risk of confusing things even more

There are two fees that we pay as Club Wyndham owners 1) is the maintenance fees assessed by the resort and 2) is the program fee charged by the club

In the case of converted fixed weeks the annual maintenance fees are paid in advance.  Your 2018 have been paid. What you are paying each month is set aside toward the 2919 fees that Wyndham will pay (to the resort) by Jan 1 2019. The program fee however is a pay as you go thing. You are paying 1/12 of the 2018 maintenance fees each month of 2018

So in the case of default; because you stop paying the program fee your week will be tossed out of the club, ie no points. But your weeks fees have been paid. The question is will they let you catch up on your fees and welcome your week back in the club

In the past there were folks that reported here that the answer was yes, with a $2200 fee


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