# Questionable Buy



## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

Im not sure what I just bought. It says 672000 points Wyndham Canterbury at San Francisco

but it also says mf at 375/mo  or ($6.70/1000 points) and that doesnt sound like Canterbury

And the seller is not one of the big names


i asked for the estopple, but didnt get an answer to that email. 

So we will see. I either got a really good deal because  a seller mistake scared off the regular bidders...or this will have to be relisted.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30093150870...IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&autorefresh=true


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## markb53 (Jul 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Im not sure what I just bought. It says 672000 points Wyndham Canterbury at San Francisco
> 
> but it also says mf at 375/mo  or ($6.70/1000 points) and that doesnt sound like Canterbury
> 
> ...



Canterbury should be about $3.60/1000




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CraigWMF (Jul 16, 2013)

Ron, without doing any homework but just looking at your attached link, it looks like a nice place to own.


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## BellaWyn (Jul 16, 2013)

Yeah, something's off.  Recent closed auction for 525K is more accurate.

If it's a seller's mistake in the listing, and you really DID get this for $760+fees -- you killed it.  That's an enviable snag Ron.  Canterbury is a beautiful property.


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2013)

I've made reservations there hoping to rent them.  No nibbles, cancelled at the 15 day point.


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## BellaWyn (Jul 16, 2013)

chapjim said:


> I've made reservations there hoping to rent them.  No nibbles, cancelled at the 15 day point.


It's tough to rent unless you have a 1BR upgraded to a 2BR or 3BR -- also difficult to do.  

Try watching the convention dates and pull reservations when Moscone is having high-volume activity.  Or, when there are special events going on [marathon week].  The city fills up.  Also, everybody wants weekends - which are higher points.  Have to list everywhere a TS user would *NOT* look.


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## csxjohn (Jul 16, 2013)

I like the strategy of not asking during the auction.  That way it may get corrected and others would then bid.

No downside because you will cancel if need be.


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## CO skier (Jul 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> And the seller is not one of the big names
> 
> 
> i asked for the estopple, but didnt get an answer to that email.



Some EBay timeshare re-sellers have a reputation for troublesome closings, and their auctions consistently conclude at a price significantly below comparable listings from more reputable sellers.  The lack of interest in the OP referenced auction may be because many bidders do not want to waste their time.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1490049
http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=187430

The OP referenced auction also had an "Item Location Revision" made to the listing, but the MFs were apparently not corrected.  Incomplete ad revisions seems to be a serial problem with this re-seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marriott-Ti...tLcz8ITSDe1LkX%2BSS0I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

... a confusing revision was made to this Marriott Timberlodge Lake Tahoe auction, yet the "Description" tab still listed the resort as Marriott Desert Springs.


If the Wyndham Canterbury listed auction eventually closes successfully, that will be interesting news.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

The same seller had a 6000 credit Worldmark contract end on eBay today too this one at $1000. About half of its value.

We'll see what happens, either I take advantage of the seller, or the seller takes advantage of me.  It won't be the first money I've lost with timeshares, overreaching.


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## lilpooh108 (Jul 16, 2013)

chapjim said:


> I've made reservations there hoping to rent them.  No nibbles, cancelled at the 15 day point.



I used to live around this property, it's on the border of the beginning portion of the "nice" part of town and the very seedy part of town (SF Tenderloin).  Landlords like to call this section "lower Nob Hill."  :hysterical:  

I don't mind the location personally, but I could see why tourists might want to stay closer to Union Square or on the other side of Union square which is much closer to the Embarcadero, North Beach & Chinatown.  It used to be a Best Western I believe.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> I like the strategy of not asking during the auction.  That way it may get corrected and others would then bid.
> 
> No downside because you will cancel if need be.



I had a note to the seller ready to send pointing out the the problems with this listing...but at the last minute I said wtf, put my bid in with esnipe and  just asked the seller for the estopple.  I figured if I gave them a chance to review the estopple before they sent it, they could end the auction ane re write the ad....but they didnt send me the estopple and they didnt change the ad


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

lilpooh108 said:


> I used to live around this property, it's on the border of the beginning portion of the "nice" part of town and the very seedy part of town (SF Tenderloin).  Landlords like to call this section "lower Nob Hill."  :hysterical:
> 
> I don't mind the location personally, but I could see why tourists might want to stay closer to Union Square or on the other side of Union square which is much closer to the Embarcadero, North Beach & Chinatown.  It used to be a Best Western I believe.



I dont care where it is, when I go to SanFrancisco I stay with my daughter in Oakland and BART into town, if I go at all.   If I bought this,  I bought it for to reduce my average mf and add a few more points to my rental business.

The property itself,  doesnt fit into my rental strategy. Ill use the points at other resorts, not San Francisco

Im convinced the seller made a mistake,  Its either twice the stated points, or half the stated mf...Or another property altogether...Hopefully an estopple will clear things up


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## lilpooh108 (Jul 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I dont care where it is, when I go to SanFrancisco I stay with my daughter in Oakland and BART into town, if I go at all.   If I bought this,  I bought it for to reduce my average mf and add a few more points to my rental business.
> 
> The property itself,  doesnt fit into my rental strategy. Ill use the points at other resorts, not San Francisco
> 
> Im convinced the seller made a mistake,  Its either twice the stated points, or half the stated mf...Or another property altogether...Hopefully an estopple will clear things up



I guess I was trying to explain to the other guy why his listing isn't moving.  I agree that the MFs are low.  

If I had a free place to stay, I'd BART into town too.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

lilpooh108 said:


> I guess I was trying to explain to the other guy why his listing isn't moving.  I agree that the MFs are low.
> 
> If I had a free place to stay, I'd BART into town too.



I think my post was really directed at him too. I dont see rental potential except for special events and conventions

But Im taking a close look at Superbowl 50  in 2016

If there is easy public transportation from The City to the stadium, like it says on the stadium website, I bet Jim and I both will be making reservations



_"The stadium also provides excellent transit access including buses, VTA light rail, ACE trains, and Amtrak that will drop fans off within an easy walking distance to the stadium. "_


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## uscav8r (Jul 16, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I think my post was really directed at him too. I dont see rental potential except for special events and conventions
> 
> But Im taking a close look at Superbowl 50 in 2016
> 
> ...


 
There may be easy access via light rail, but it does take some time to get there from SF. It's about a 45 minute drive right down US-101, and about a 2-2.5 hour BART (light rail) trip from SF one way. If people are shelling out for the SB, there may be private luxury motorcoaches and other like setups going to/from the game, but that is speculation on my part.


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## ronparise (Jul 16, 2013)

uscav8r said:


> There may be easy access via light rail, but it does take some time to get there from SF. It about a 45 minute drive right down US-101, and about a 2-2.5 hour BART (light rail) trip from SF one way. If people are shelling out for the SB, there may be private luxury motorcoaches and other like setups going to/from the game, but that is speculation on my part.



Maybe Jim and I can charter a bus for our guests

Thats why the last Superbowl worked so well for Wyndham and Worldmark owners that rent..You could walk to the game from either La Belle Maison or Avenue Plaza


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## BellaWyn (Jul 17, 2013)

*Planning Data*



ronparise said:


> But Im taking a close look at Superbowl 50  in 2016


Ron: 
Inventory detail for planning

Total units at Canterbury: 111

2BR Presidential:: 4 - 2 that they hold for PR, 2 that are open for everyone
3BR Presidential:: 8 - 6 held for PR, 2 open for everyone
1BR Presidential:: 8 - 6 held for PR, 2 open for everyone

The rest are all 1 & 2 BR standard units.

All Presidential units are Sunday-Sunday


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## staceyeileen (Jul 17, 2013)

BellaWyn said:


> Try watching the convention dates and pull reservations when Moscone is having high-volume activity.



+1!  Last year's Dreamforce at Moscone was 90,000+ people.  I'm going again 11/18 - 11/21.  Sorry already have my hotel booked.


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## MFT (Jul 17, 2013)

I had looked at the auction, but like you thought there was something wrong.  The other thing is there is only 97K or so points left for 13, and yet MF payments start at end of auction (5 months worth?).  But as you said, if it's more points or lower MFs afterall, that would be minimal.


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## ronparise (Jul 17, 2013)

MFT said:


> I had looked at the auction, but like you thought there was something wrong.  The other thing is there is only 97K or so points left for 13, and yet MF payments start at end of auction (5 months worth?).  But as you said, if it's more points or lower MFs afterall, that would be minimal.




I always consider mf payments like you mention, and closing costs and the transfer fee as part of my purchase price. So:

$760 bid
$399 to close
$299 transfer
$2000 maintenance fees

$3188 total

Thats less than a half a penny a point and within my budget for a Canterbury contract...If thats what I bought and if the numbers are right


The reason to stay away from this contract have nothing to do with the fees. The reason to stay away is because the seller doesnt know what they are doing.

I took a calculated risk bidding on it.  Im betting that the sellers mistakes will fall out in my favor or that there will be a legitimate reason not to go through with the deal. Im still waiting for the estopple. The only contact the seller has made with me was to ask for my email address.


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## jebloomquist (Jul 18, 2013)

I had been watching this auction, but was in Maui and chose not to bid too high. But, I had emailed the seller questioning the maintenance fees. He responded that they were considerably lowerand would change the number in the eBay listing to $2130.24. That results in a MF/1000 of $3.17. Now that seemed too low, but no one was bidding on the auction so I just let the listing stay as it was hoping that there would not be a high bid.

Had I been able to do it, and not enjoying myself in Maui, my calculations indicated that a bid of $2,500 would have been quite acceptable, and it would have gone at least that high if the correct maintenance fee had been listed in the auction. 

Similar ones have gone for over $3,000.

Ron got himself a fantastic deal. Congratualations Ron.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Jul 18, 2013)

It is a nice place - and I'd guess it was completely gutted and remodeled.  Decor is upscale and trendy.  My only complaint is that the beds are queens (at least in the one bedroom units.)  I think the neighborhood is fine, and we walked there with small rolling suitcases from the closest BART station, both times we stayed there.


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## ronparise (Jul 18, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I had been watching this auction, but was in Maui and chose not to bid too high. But, I had emailed the seller questioning the maintenance fees. He responded that they were considerably lowerand would change the number in the eBay listing to $2130.24. That results in a MF/1000 of $3.17. Now that seemed too low, but no one was bidding on the auction so I just let the listing stay as it was hoping that there would not be a high bid.
> 
> Had I been able to do it, and not enjoying myself in Maui, my calculations indicated that a bid of $2,500 would have been quite acceptable, and it would have gone at least that high if the correct maintenance fee had been listed in the auction.
> 
> ...



Jim thanks for the info. But isnt the real reason you didnt bid any higher because your wife said you already have too many points? In any case thanks for not bidding any higher. My bid was $1000...I wasnt going to risk any more than that on a questionable deal....By the way I got a 453k Bali Hai contract recently that was a better deal yet.

Now we will have to wait and see if we can get this thing to close. 

The seller asked for my email address, and said his closer would contact me... but so far nothing

If it does close it will be my second deal where I got a good deal because I knew the property better than the seller and better than the other bidders.  And its why I sound like a broken record here on TUG..(does anyone remember what a record was?)   If you are going to buy on ebay you have to know the product better than the seller


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## Deb from NC (Jul 19, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> It is a nice place - and I'd guess it was completely gutted and remodeled.  Decor is upscale and trendy.  My only complaint is that the beds are queens (at least in the one bedroom units.)  I think the neighborhood is fine, and we walked there with small rolling suitcases from the closest BART station, both times we stayed there.



I agree, we stayed in a 2 bedroom  (there is a king in one of the bedrooms) there and it was probably the most upscale Wyndham we've stayed in.  I'd go back in a minute..the neighborhood seemed fine to me..we did a lot of walking and I never felt uncomfortable....


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## ronparise (Jul 19, 2013)

staceyeileen said:


> +1!  Last year's Dreamforce at Moscone was 90,000+ people.  I'm going again 11/18 - 11/21.  Sorry already have my hotel booked.



Contrast that with The July 4th Essence Fest in New Orleans where the reports are that it  brought 400000 people to town. I was happy to provide accommodations to about 100  of them (50 studio and one bedroom rentals at 2 to a room)


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## ronparise (Jul 19, 2013)

so far so good. I havent seen the estopple but they did send me three pages from the sellers account.  672000 points as advertised,  maintenance fees of $2130 as Jim reported in his post (above). But the seller didnt include the program fee which will add another about $400 to that total'  Also the 95000 2013 points are what the seller has in his account which could be from one of their other two contracts... What wasnt mentioned in the ebay ad are the 590000 points in the credit pool, some of which, no doubt, will be included with my purchase

all in all, if it closes I think I got a deal...Im going to go ahead and pay them.


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## zora (Jul 20, 2013)

Congratulations!  I followed this auction but didn't bid because the numbers didn't make sense. Sounds like you got a great deal. 
Suzanne.


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## csxjohn (Jul 20, 2013)

Very good, you didn't let the apparent wrong figure for the MFs and/or points scare you away.

You had a feeling that you were going to get double the points listed or half the MFs.

If the numbers did turn out to be correct you had the option to not complete the deal per eBay's policy of real estate auctions being non-binding.

Good work again.


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## ronparise (Jul 20, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> Very good, you didn't let the apparent wrong figure for the MFs and/or points scare you away.
> 
> You had a feeling that you were going to get double the points listed or half the MFs.
> 
> ...



Remember too, I didnt post anything on TUG. No sense alerting other buyers to what I intended on doing


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## ronparise (Dec 31, 2013)

*Update*

This thing has been a nightmare, and I pretty much wrote off the $1500 I spent, but surprise, surprise...today my account shows 672000 new points



The deal went through


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## FL Guy (Dec 31, 2013)

ronparise said:


> This thing has been a nightmare, and I pretty much wrote off the $1500 I spent, but surprise, surprise...today my account shows 672000 new points
> 
> 
> 
> The deal went through



Glad to hear it.  I'm sure in the overall scheme of things $1,500 wouldn't bankrupt you, but no sense in just throwing away good money either!

A pleasant Happy New Year surprise!  :whoopie:


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## comicbookman (Dec 31, 2013)

Ron,
Did you get any of the pooled points as well?


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## ronparise (Dec 31, 2013)

comicbookman said:


> Ron,
> Did you get any of the pooled points as well?



I did

411,127 pooled points good thru the end of 2014
672,000 points good thru Dec 2014
672000 points good thru Dec 2015

and in 2 days I should see 672000 points good thru Dec 2016

2013 mf $209 a month  (going up im sure)


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## comicbookman (Dec 31, 2013)

impressive!  Well done and happy New Year!


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## Bigrob (Jan 1, 2014)

Glad it worked out for you Ron... you really do have the Midas touch. Or a guardian angel. Or both.


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## ronparise (Jan 1, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> Glad it worked out for you Ron... you really do have the Midas touch. Or a guardian angel. Or both.



I don't think I have anything special. Do as many deals as I have  and the odds are one or two will work out

And remember I had to go to the guys house before the deal got done


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## jjmanthei05 (Jan 1, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Jim thanks for the info. But isnt the real reason you didnt bid any higher because your wife said you already have too many points?



Thank goodness my wife hasn't said that yet to me!!!! I think she likes taking vacations too much to say no. 

Jason


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