# Westin Vistana told me 8 to 0 months soon it will be open to all Marriott 500K owners + 250K vistana + 250K of another group



## hdcommercials (Jan 8, 2021)

I know vistana owners have priority 12 - 8 months, but I was told last year it was different inventory than Marriott, now I am told that within the 8 - 0 months reservation window Marriott will allow 500K Marriott owners to book along side the 250K vistana owners + another 250K of other groups. If you think it was hard to book before, soon it will be impossible to book anything when their is 1,000,000 people in the same booking pool. Good luck
the groups include
The 1,000,000 included in the group will be
MVC
WVC
SVC
TRC
VC
I just did the owners update today and this is what I was told by the salesperson, and confirmed it with the manager because I could not believe what they told me.


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## RC51Tofuman (Jan 8, 2021)

hdcommercials said:


> I know vistana owners have priority 12 - 8 months, but I was told last year it was different inventory than Marriott, now I am told that within the 8 - 0 months reservation window Marriott will allow 500K Marriott owners to book along side the 250K vistana owners + another 250K of other groups. If you think it was hard to book before, soon it will be impossible to book anything when their is 1,000,000 people in the same booking pool. Good luck


That sucks
Any way to CONFIRM this?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## hdcommercials (Jan 8, 2021)

I asked a sales person and confirmed it with the sales manager


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## emeryjre (Jan 8, 2021)

Did this just come from somebodies Twitter feed?


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## RC51Tofuman (Jan 8, 2021)

hdcommercials said:


> I asked a sales person and confirmed it with the sales manager


Wow the value of our timeshare just sank

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## emeryjre (Jan 8, 2021)

Oh, a timeshare salesman.  Fake news


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## tschwa2 (Jan 8, 2021)

Well if a sales person and his manager confirmed it, then it must be true.  Did he say how long until this happens and if that means that Vistana owners will start being able to book Marriott vacation clubs which would lessen the demand for some of the Westin/sheratons?


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## emeryjre (Jan 8, 2021)

Thank god for owned timeshare weeks in various seasons.  Platinum plus at peak times at premium resorts sound good right now


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## bogey21 (Jan 8, 2021)

This type of thing is why I opted to own only Fixed Week/Fixed Units my last 10 years or so of TimeSharing.  Six were at HOA Controlled Independent Resorts.  The other was my Marriott Monarch Week.  The downside is I was pretty much locked in.  On the other hand it sure made planning easier...

George


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## Henry M. (Jan 8, 2021)

What are TRC and VC?


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## alexadeparis (Jan 8, 2021)

I’ll believe it when it is official. I am sure the end goal was to “cure“ your account by buying into MVC, right?

TRC and VC is meaningless Never heard of any acronyms like that being used. I smell BS.


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## VacationForever (Jan 8, 2021)

Lips were moving and lying hands were drawing...

I just came off a MVC owners' update today and the salesperson was telling me that Presidential level was going away.  She said all the St Regis owners (what?????) would come in as Chairman Club level.  I asked her for details and if she knew for a fact, she said she did not have any details, but it had to happen was what she said.  LOL


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## dioxide45 (Jan 8, 2021)

--Deleted--


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## dioxide45 (Jan 8, 2021)

Was this at Sheraton Vistana Villages in Orlando?


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## Sea Six (Jan 8, 2021)

I suspect they're tying to tell you only the Westin or Sheraton FLEX members who can book at 12 months will get all the good weeks. If you're an owner at the one of those resorts, you can still book at 12 months, but only the FLEX members get the good weeks everywhere else at 12 months out.  Good luck with that!


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 8, 2021)

We just went to a presentation at Nanea and they did not know of any of this. We are doing a Marriott one next week but I would not sweat it yet


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## sjsharkie (Jan 8, 2021)

LOL.  The diagram looks pretty -- I am sure it was written upside down by some skilled salesman.

Even if it does happen, I'm sure the exchange rates between programs are going to be terrible -- and then they offer to sell you a Marriott on top of a Vistana to make sure you get the best rate in both programs

-ryan


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## DannyTS (Jan 8, 2021)

hdcommercials said:


> I know vistana owners have priority 12 - 8 months, but I was told last year it was different inventory than Marriott, now I am told that within the 8 - 0 months reservation window Marriott will allow 500K Marriott owners to book along side the 250K vistana owners + another 250K of other groups. If you think it was hard to book before, soon it will be impossible to book anything when their is 1,000,000 people in the same booking pool. Good luck
> the groups include
> The 1,000,000 included in the group will be
> MVC
> ...


They have a solution to this potential problem but you have to give them $50,000 
Unfortunately the value of your purchase is going to disappear the moment you sign the contract and you still do not know if you have solved this imaginary problem.


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## rcv82 (Jan 8, 2021)

This isn’t necessarily bad. You still have your exclusive access to your deeded resort(s) in months 12-8. As long as the trading between VSN and MVC is equitable in both directions for under 8 months, what you loose in competition to the MVC owners you gain in access to so many other resorts. I, for one, would like to have access to the MVC resorts without having to separately buy into MVC. The key question here is how this will be managed including who it is available to (e.g., Flex owners only)


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## tomvc (Jan 9, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> What are TRC and VC?



My guess is that refers to The Ritz-Carlton Vacation Club.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2021)

tomvc said:


> My guess is that refers to The Ritz-Carlton Vacation Club.


The scribbles indicate 12 of them. There are only 5 Ritz-Carlton Destination Club locations.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 9, 2021)

If true, this is an increase in value for owning resale weeks where you want to go with a 12 month reservation and a devaluation of traders. Why would anyone want to buy into their newfangled "Flex" trading system if the trend is to devalue trading type ownerships?


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## remowidget (Jan 9, 2021)

I think it is bunk, unless maybe it is for points owners. Week owners in Marriott have to swap though interval of they want to go to a different resort.


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## needvaca (Jan 9, 2021)

Hopefully platinum/gold weeks owners in both  Vistana and Marriott will hold onto their weeks and not be coerced by Marriott to convert them into Trust points. Those vistana Flex trust points quickly become worthless (or close too). And both Marriott and Vistana trust points have too high maintenance fees and too many restrictions. 

As Vistana owners already know, Mandatory resorts are (and will likely continue to be) the best value and most coveted in the network


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2021)

needvaca said:


> As Vistana owners already know, Mandatory resorts are (and will likely continue to be) the best value and most coveted in the network


Most Vistana owners have no concept of Mandatory vs. Voluntary. All resorts, and Flex, come with StarOptions when you buy from the developer and most owners buy from Vistana.


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## VacationForever (Jan 9, 2021)

needvaca said:


> Hopefully platinum/gold weeks owners in both  Vistana and Marriott will hold onto their weeks and not be coerced by Marriott to convert them into Trust points. Those vistana Flex trust points quickly become worthless (or close too). And both Marriott and Vistana trust points have too high maintenance fees and too many restrictions.
> 
> As Vistana owners already know, Mandatory resorts are (and will likely continue to be) the best value and most coveted in the network


I don't consider Vistana network "most coveted".  I own at both and I see them as equal.  Reality of the matter is Flex Trust Point system is here to stay whether weeks owners like it or not.  In the merged system, MVC can as easily set the rules that only Flex points can play in the combined system and SVN continue within its system.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 9, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> I don't consider Vistana network "most coveted".  I own at both and I see them as equal.  Reality of the matter is Flex Trust Point system is here to stay whether weeks owners like it or not.  In the merged system, MVC can as easily set the rules that only Flex points can play in the combined system and SVN continue within its system.


I think the term "most coveted" was used in terms of resale purchases. Those are the best ones to buy if you want access to VSN.


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## VacationForever (Jan 9, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> I think the term "most coveted" was used in terms of resale purchases. Those are the best ones to buy if you want access to VSN.


True if a resale owner wants to trade within SVN.  The same applies to resale Hyatt weeks where they can continue to exchange into other Hyatt properties using the underlying points of each week.


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## vistana101 (Jan 9, 2021)

Still boggles my mind that these salespeople think a fifth-grade level drawing will entice customers to buy (and believe in) a product. If it was official, they'd have a nicely designed piece of marketing collateral from MVC corporate.


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## CPNY (Jan 13, 2021)

hdcommercials said:


> I know vistana owners have priority 12 - 8 months, but I was told last year it was different inventory than Marriott, now I am told that within the 8 - 0 months reservation window Marriott will allow 500K Marriott owners to book along side the 250K vistana owners + another 250K of other groups. If you think it was hard to book before, soon it will be impossible to book anything when their is 1,000,000 people in the same booking pool. Good luck
> the groups include
> The 1,000,000 included in the group will be
> MVC
> ...


This is almost as bad as the guy a while back “who saw a word document” during his presentation. I just did a sales presentation in my house 5 min ago and this is what I got...... shall we compare notes?

Mine is a bit more colorful and has more circles, not to mention the T’s so, I’d probably trust mine


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## vistana101 (Jan 14, 2021)

CPNY said:


> This is almost as bad as the guy a while back “who saw a word document” during his presentation. I just did a sales presentation and this is what I got...... shall we compare notes?
> 
> Mine is a bit more colorful and has more circles, not to mention the T’s so, I’d probably trust mine



Oh my...I do not understand how management lets these drawings fly


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## CPNY (Jan 14, 2021)

vistana101 said:


> Oh my...I do not understand how management lets these drawings fly


LOL it’s a joke I just made it haha.


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## vistana101 (Jan 14, 2021)

CPNY said:


> LOL it’s a joke I just made it haha.


Lol...scary part is I think that could easily be something they actually did!!


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## CPNY (Jan 14, 2021)

vistana101 said:


> Lol...scary part is I think that could easily be something they actually did!!


Ha couldn’t agree more


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## blondietink (Jan 14, 2021)

CPNY said:


> This is almost as bad as the guy a while back “who saw a word document” during his presentation. I just did a sales presentation in my house 5 min ago and this is what I got...... shall we compare notes?
> 
> Mine is a bit more colorful and has more circles, not to mention the T’s so, I’d probably trust mine
> 
> View attachment 31089


Only MVC owners can book anything!  That is truly laughable, in my opinion.


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## CPNY (Jan 14, 2021)

blondietink said:


> Only MVC owners can book anything!  That is truly laughable, in my opinion.



That lie has been told by many sales reps according to people reporting back here, it is laughable. Although, some current MVC owners actually believe it so I’m not sure which is more laughable.


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## amycurl (Jan 14, 2021)

I think we should all print out @CPNY's drawing and then, at our next VSN/MVC sales presentation, when the salesperson starts to draw his own, we can then share ours and say "Ok, let's literally compare notes...." LOL!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 14, 2021)

CPNY said:


> This is almost as bad as the guy a while back “who saw a word document” during his presentation. I just did a sales presentation in my house 5 min ago and this is what I got...... shall we compare notes?
> 
> Mine is a bit more colorful and has more circles, not to mention the T’s so, I’d probably trust mine
> 
> View attachment 31089


Did you draw this upside down?


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## gtneher (Jan 16, 2021)

tschwa2 said:


> Well if a sales person and his manager confirmed it, then it must be true.  Did he say how long until this happens and if that means that Vistana owners will start being able to book Marriott vacation clubs which would lessen the demand for some of the Westin/sheratons?


I was told the same thing at Vistana Villages 3 weeks ago and he told me we would NOT have access to Marriott properties. This was for resale owners of which I am one. So what recourse is there. It is worthless then. In addition he said there is no longer any chance to buy in( which I would not do anyway).


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## tschwa2 (Jan 16, 2021)

gtneher said:


> I was told the same thing at Vistana Villages 3 weeks ago and he told me we would NOT have access to Marriott properties. This was for resale owners of which I am one. So what recourse is there. It is worthless then. In addition he said there is no longer any chance to buy in( which I would not do anyway).


You will do what you always did.  Use or exchange through Interval.


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## Eric B (Jan 16, 2021)

My thoughts on the subject - the addition access to MVC (or any other ownership program) as a special exchange program is contemplated in the VSN Disclosure Guide for mandatory resorts on page 23 as follows:

8.4 Special Exchange Programs. Network Operator reserves the right, from time to time, to enter into special exchange relationships with any entity other than an External Exchange Company pursuant to which Network Members will have access to selected non-Network resorts and non-Network owners will have access to Network accommodations after the Home Resort Reservation Period. Any special exchange programs will be governed by reservation rules and regulations similar to those governing an External Exchange Program.

Source:



			https://vistana-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/owner-documents/hoa/documents/2015-svn-rules-mandatory.pdf
		


The reservation rules and regulations for external exchanges are covered starting on page 21 and don't distinguish between VOI ownership from resale purchases or developer purchases, but allow for use by any mandatory resort owner.  I don't own any voluntary resorts, so don't have access to the disclosure guide for those and can't speculate as to whether a resale owner at a voluntary resort would have access to booking through a similar special exchange program, but for at least the mandatory resorts the wording seems to indicate that it is through an access to the VSN rather than otherwise, which leads me to believe that it is unlikely that a voluntary resale VOI that hasn't been converted wouldn't be able to be exchanged using a special exchange program.  That's just a guess, of course.

Biggest takeaways for me are, first, that any access for non-network resort owners would not be available until after the home resort period without a change to the VSN rules.  Just when access would be available and whether there would be a preference period for Vistana owners using SOs is something that we'll have to wait and see.  Second, the discussion that any special exchange program would follow rules and regulations similar to those for the external exchange program (Interval) imply that it would be a week-for-week basis rather than as a points type of exchange system, though I don't think that would be a large hurdle to overcome and set up as some common currency arrangement.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 16, 2021)

We went to a Marriott presentation and they said something would be announced in 3 to 6 months but had no specifics but we should buy something just in case .


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## CPNY (Jan 17, 2021)

I’m going on Tuesday morning for my “update” cannot wait for this one


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## vistana101 (Jan 17, 2021)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We went to a Marriott presentation and they said something would be announced in 3 to 6 months but had no specifics but we should buy something just in case .



Oh yes, let me drop $30,000 just in case the program changes in 6 months....who would go for that?!


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## farinc (Jan 17, 2021)

does buying a time share make financial sense?  Is it a good use of one’s time when planning vacations given the exhaustive amount of time that it takes when one’s time equals money?  How much time do you use to find a vacation trade when not just returning to use your purchased time share?  Is it frustrating for owners to see time share companies like Vistana change the rules for who can make a reservation and when the reservations can be made, ie watering down the value of the owners’ original TS purchase when it suits the company’s financial whims without consideration to the owners?  Do you wish you’d never bought a TS?  Trying to decide if it makes sense to buy a TS.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 17, 2021)

farinc said:


> does buying a time share make financial sense?  Is it a good use of one’s time when planning vacations given the exhaustive amount of time that it takes when one’s time equals money?  How much time do you use to find a vacation trade when not just returning to use your purchased time share?  Is it frustrating for owners to see time share companies like Vistana change the rules for who can make a reservation and when the reservations can be made, ie watering down the value of the owners’ original TS purchase when it suits the company’s financial whims without consideration to the owners?  Do you wish you’d never bought a TS?  Trying to decide if it makes sense to buy a TS.



Timeshares *can *make financial sense -- *IF* you buy resale, actually use your unit every year, and use it to its potential. We stay in upscale oceanfront suites in Hawaii for <$200/day out of pocket -- including parking, taxes, and resort fees (but excluding capital costs). Comparable hotels or condo rentals would cost 3-4x more.

Yes, rule changes are frustrating.  As are the sometimes inexplicable cost increases.  One must remain educated and flexible to stay on top of things; for example, we just sold off both of our Marriott Hawaii units as MF's escalated.  But no regrets about purchasing, and those vacations were excellent, too.


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## Negma (Jan 17, 2021)

This topic has a lot ways to evaluate. Some use what if the money was invested, what if you booked independent vacations, etc. Here are our costs over the last 10 years. We love our timeshare travels. We PLAN. We could have saved more had we learned about resale earlier, but we didn't, so the costs are what they are. Resale would probably have saved us 70K or so. Half of our 9 purchases are resale. 
I focus on the last 10 years because that was when we really owned the majority of our properties. Started in 2005, over 15 years we have spent 170K in purchases. Over the last 10 years we have spent and average of 9600 year in maintenance fees. if you take the 170/15 and the last 10 years of Maintenance fees we have spent about 20K a year for TS vacations.  So I am including what our capital cost was in the figure.  Take the purchase price out, and we are at $100/night. The hard part is what does this cost per vacation equal because we have done so many different vacations every year. 
We arguably have 100 nights a year of stays (a two bedroom in our mind = 2 nights since it would be 2 hotel rooms for the family). So to *vacationtime1* point, about 200 night over the last 10 years. Keep in mind timeshare rooms are NOT hotel rooms. This year we already have 57 nights booked in Hawaii. If you believe a hotel in Maui is roughly 400, there is $22800 just to start. This is just a basic feel. But I am retired and we would not spend 20K in retirement dollars just for Hawaii every year. We figure we have another 3-4 trips depending on COVID.
Just food for thought, I am not going to debate costs and value because that becomes a personal decision. Hope it helps.


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## amycurl (Jan 17, 2021)

CPNY said:


> I’m going on Tuesday morning for my “update” cannot wait for this one



Please tell me that you'll bring your notes and compare them!! Tell them that you should get more credit since yours has color!


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## amycurl (Jan 17, 2021)

farinc said:


> does buying a time share make financial sense?  Is it a good use of one’s time when planning vacations given the exhaustive amount of time that it takes when one’s time equals money?  How much time do you use to find a vacation trade when not just returning to use your purchased time share?  Is it frustrating for owners to see time share companies like Vistana change the rules for who can make a reservation and when the reservations can be made, ie watering down the value of the owners’ original TS purchase when it suits the company’s financial whims without consideration to the owners?  Do you wish you’d never bought a TS?  Trying to decide if it makes sense to buy a TS.



You've been on TUG now for over a decade....and you've chosen this thread to ask these questions? REALLY? Sure, I can see someone new starting a thread to ask these questions....but someone who has been reading and engaging with TUG should be able to answer these questions, at least for themselves, by now, I would think.


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## Henry M. (Jan 17, 2021)

I'm like Negma. When I started out, I didn't know about TUG and bought all my units from the developer, starting in 2002. I actually considered resale for the last one, but prices weren't that much less at the time because the resorts were almost new. Looking back, I don't miss what I spent and have memories and family time together that are worth much more to me. We probably wouldn't have taken half the trips we have if they weren't already budgeted as part of our timeshare ownership and maintenance fee payments. We've also had amazing hotel stays using hotel points. I travel a lot overseas, and hotel points provide a lot of value abroad.

I have enjoyed my timeshares for a long time, and have had good use out of them. They are not financial investments, but if used consistently, they provide vacations at much lower cost than trying to book equivalent hotel accommodations. I also find it easier to just go when I've already paid for everything than if I had to make a separate decision to spend the money every year. I realize I could use the same amount of money without the commitment to a program, but I find it useful to go ahead and make the commitment. So far I haven't been disappointed, because I have the time and resources to fully utilize what I own.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 17, 2021)

vistana101 said:


> Oh yes, let me drop $30,000 just in case the program changes in 6 months....who would go for that?!


That was the sum of it. Plus they said why did you come and waste your time if you weren't going to buy.


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## vistana101 (Jan 17, 2021)

I'm torn on that question - we tend to use our timeshare decently well by using Marriott points for luxury hotels, taking advantage of owner discounts, and through some really great exchanges (ex: 2 weeks in Orlando that had MF of ~$2,300 for a week in an oceanview 2 bedroom villa in St. John several years ago). But, we bought our first unit back in 2001 when the price (purchase and MF) was much lower and the benefits (particularly on the hotel side) were much more valuable, and we purchased our second unit with a nice discount as we requalified a resale purchase. The two weeks have given us some nice benefits and flexibility and provided us with some wonderful vacations that I'm not sure we would have taken otherwise. That said, our travel patterns have changed since we first bought, and we now do more shorter/weekend trips, more luxury hotel stays, etc., and a lack of exchanges to higher-cost resorts means we're not getting quite as much value out of it. When you look at just the MF costs, we do okay, but when you incorporate the initial purchase costs, ehhh.

I recently did some (rough) math to see if it would be worth buying something from the Marriott side, and for our purposes, it doesn't seem like it. Take this example:

*Marriott OceanWatch Myrtle Beach Cost Comparison Example:*
-can rent a July 4th week oceanfront unit (6 months out - lots of availability) on RedWeek for ~$3,300 (some for even less!)
-from MVC, a July 4th week would cost 5,400 DC Points = 22 BI _(yes, there would be 100 extra points)_
-22 BI = $3,572 MF alone (152.58 per BI + $215 fees)
-Est. cost of initial purchase: (calculated using s_pecial discount_ of $10.30 per point) = $55,620 (without taxes, fees, and interest)

So, comparatively: 
-Buying a unit from Marriott: MF over 30 years: $107,160 + initial purchase price (without fees/interest) = $162,780
-Renting: OF rental at $3,300 for 30 years = $99,000

With that example, and assuming the primary use would be a week in Myrtle Beach every year, the math is just not there to buy a unit from the developer. Even the MF alone are more than what I can find on the rental market (same goes for non-July 4th weeks). 

And as people who love to go to Orlando, there are so many deals to be had from Interval, that we could easily get a 2-bedroom villa at our home resort (Vistana Villages) for about half of our MF for one week. :/


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## dioxide45 (Jan 17, 2021)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> That was the sum of it. Plus they said why did you come and waste your time if you weren't going to buy.


Yes, we get that one every so often. We came because YOUR people invited us. And for the free gift. Look, I know not everyone buys, they know not everyone buys. Marketing and sales know that they need X number of tours through the floor to get 1 sale. If that number is 7, I just consider us to be one of the 6. Far more people tour and don't buy than those that tour and do. That question from them is just a way to make themselves feel better that they didn't gain a sale.


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## Henry M. (Jan 17, 2021)

My timeshares are all in Hawaii and one in St. John. I am happy with them. Those are the places I go to. I can see the wisdom of buying elsewhere and exchanging, but I would rather own where I really want to go rather than count on exchange systems getting me there. You never know what the future holds for those systems. Generally, they get devalued.

I may have been able to find a cheaper way to get the vacations I've had, but the way I've done it has worked for me. I don't regret my ownership.


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## CPNY (Jan 17, 2021)

farinc said:


> does buying a time share make financial sense?  Is it a good use of one’s time when planning vacations given the exhaustive amount of time that it takes when one’s time equals money?  How much time do you use to find a vacation trade when not just returning to use your purchased time share?  Is it frustrating for owners to see time share companies like Vistana change the rules for who can make a reservation and when the reservations can be made, ie watering down the value of the owners’ original TS purchase when it suits the company’s financial whims without consideration to the owners?  Do you wish you’d never bought a TS?  Trying to decide if it makes sense to buy a TS.


Financial sense? If you buy resale and the “right” ownership I’d say yes. I can’t tell you how many trips I’ve been on and saved around 60-70% off retail each time.


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