# Upgrading to RCI Points from RCI Weeks



## Tommart (Sep 3, 2013)

I own two lockouts at Massanutten Woodstone in RCI Weeks.  If all are deposited, I earn 32 credits for one week and 36 credits for the other for a total of 68 RCI TPU credits.  My annual MF is about $1200 total for both.

Is it worth $7,000 to convert to RCI Points?  I would receive 206,500 points annually with the same MF.  My annual RCI membership cost would slightly increase.

Tommart


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## tschwa2 (Sep 3, 2013)

See these posts if you haven't before.  In most cases your converted weeks would have more value but I can't see where they would ever have $7000 more value.  How do you currently use your weeks and how would you like to use them if they have more trading power?  One advantage points has is advanced priority to inventory at your resort and in your home group.  For Massanutten and Vacation Villages in general this really isn't an advantage because there is so much inventory in weeks.  There may be a few affiliates that are hard to get during high season but the priority only helps if you want to go there and enough owners during that season have converted. At most VV resorts the points inventory comes from unsold inventory which going forward will only/primarily be sold as points.  Truthfully there have been enough weeks that have been sold that it shouldn't ever be a problem unless they drop the fee down to less than $500 to convert and you still don't want to convert.

The second advantage is the high ratio of points to MF's.  This is only an advantage if you are trading into another resort.  If you exchange back into your home resort or another VV property with lots of inventory but high RCI points value you will only get 1-3 exchanges and you probably could have matched that or done better than that without paying to convert using tpu's.

There are some resorts that are much easier to get with points because they haven't sold weeks inventory for many years and few weeks members deposit, like the Crane in Barbados.  There is also the Hiltons in NY.  The Manhattan club is easier to get in points.  If you are regularly planning to stay in one of the resorts that is difficult to exchange into with weeks, you would have to decide if the cost to convert is worth it.  On the ebay market the Grandview (also a Vacation Village affiliate) with the best points to MF ratio go for around $3000-$4000 for 122,000 points with $670ish MF's.

The other points partner benefits (rental cars, airlines, etc) have had their value eaten away over the last 8-10 years.  In part perhaps due to the cheap flood of points (from places like Mexico and Vacation Villages) that RCI can't rent out to make enough money to cover the better benefits. If you are paying in the .0065 or less per point they can still be an ok deal but since there is a history of lower the value I would look for that to continue as RCI allows resorts to award higher points than most people would be willing to exchange back into those resorts for.

Would you be losing your bonus weeks when you convert?  That should also factor in a little.  Don't know if the bonus tpu's will continue if Massanutten deposits more unused inventory as points but for now did you count that toward your tpu allotment.  

Did you notice or did they point out the cleaning fees for Massanutten on short stays?  If you stay less than a week in a 1 br the HK fee is $47 if you are in a 2 br it is $93.


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## Smokatoke (Sep 3, 2013)

Thats a ridiculous amount of RCI points... I have pondered the same question for poor TPU properties like Vegas, but in the RCI system give a lot more points. It is said you can find 122K point properties on the resale market for a lot less than converting to points, buy two of them and then sell your original weeks property if you dont want it.


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## Heron (Sep 3, 2013)

Don't convert to points and don't sell your weeks.  Lockoffs are perfect for points for deposit program.  I have a cheap points resort with low fees and low points, but I deposit my two 2-bedroom units at summit for $26 each and get 120000 points.  This works much better than converting, but not sure you can do that with woodstone since it is points.


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## Passepartout (Sep 3, 2013)

There is a place for Weeks and a place for Points in your TS portfolio. But for $7,000, I wouldn't convert what you already own-(unless you don't like the fixed weeks you have).

I think you have to own a Points resort & account to do Points for deposit, so instead of paying where you own, simply buy a cheap eBay TS that's already in Points. That $7k will pay the transfer and many years of MFs, and you can have the flexibility of Points along with what you own. If you want to add to your points account, simply deposit what you own (or part of it) and go where you want to go instead.

Jim


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## tschwa2 (Sep 3, 2013)

Heron said:


> Don't convert to points and don't sell your weeks.  Lockoffs are perfect for points for deposit program.  I have a cheap points resort with low fees and low points, but I deposit my two 2-bedroom units at summit for $26 each and get 120000 points.  This works much better than converting, but not sure you can do that with woodstone since it is points.



Problem is once the resort goes to points it is no longer eligible for PFD.  Up until about 2 months ago you could PFD Woodstone and Regal Vistas. So if the points program and conversions are successful and make the developer enough money they will most likely start looking at Summit to do the same.  If they do you will no longer be able to PFD.


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## Tommart (Sep 3, 2013)

*Reply*

I deposit all my weeks, and generally book one week at Woodstone.  The past three years we stayed over Labor Day.  Stayed once with a bonus week, and the other two times for reduced tpu ( 5 and 9).

I will actually receive 4 bonus weeks, where I had 2 in the past.  I bought my Luxury unit on resale without bonus weeks.   Bonus weeks is not a big deal to me.  I have never used more than one bonus week in a year.  Maybe I will after I retire in three years.

Not sure if partial weeks is a big deal for me.  Nice having that option.

My big question is unit availability.  I have trouble locating beach weeks (even May and September) or ski weeks in Colorado.  I'm "hoping" that Points opens additional units.

Tommart


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## Tommart (Sep 3, 2013)

*Confused about Transferring*

I'm confused.

If I bought another Points property, I could annually transfer my Woodstone tpu credits to Points?

What is the tranfer ratio?

How much does it cost to transfer?

All I want to ability to have access to Points units.

Tommart

P.S. Last night I searched for some Points units for sale, but had difficulty locating them.  It's also confusing to me about units like Holiday Inn, Wyndum, etc. which appear to have their own points system but for a fee have access to RCI Points.


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## Tommart (Sep 3, 2013)

*Additional Thought*

Also, remember that the $7K is for both my week 24 and week 31 lockouts.  So it's $3.5K each.

But if I can buy two new Points TS for about $3.5K each resale that are worth over 100K Points each, and have a combined MF under $1.3K/annually, that would be the way to go.  I'll do some additional searching.

Tommart


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## Heron (Sep 4, 2013)

Sounds like woodstone may no longer be an option to PFD, but here is how it works.  Each 2br red week can be deposited for $26 and gets about 60000 points.  So, you'd pay $104 for 240000 points if you deposit all 4.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 4, 2013)

Tommart said:


> But if I can buy two new Points TS for about $3.5K each resale that are worth over 100K Points each, and have a combined MF under $1.3K/annually, that would be the way to go.  I'll do some additional searching.
> 
> Tommart


I believe that you could easily find many resorts which would give you the RCI points you want for way less than $7000  I'd guess less than $500. Don't know about the MFs.


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## Tommart (Sep 9, 2013)

*My Decision*

All,
Thanks for your help.  I called RCI Weeks, talked to Massanutten Reservations, talked further with my salesperson and her manager, and did a lot of web research.  I read all the advice from this thread, and other threads on TUG.  I tried my best to locate a For Sale Points timeshare that gave over 2 points/MFcent and could not locate any with purchase price below $7K.

I also talked to five other Massanutten owners -- all of which converted to Points last week.  One also upgraded from Shen. Villas to Regal Vistas.

Also one TUG member temporarily gave me access to her RCI Points account.  Points members do have additional options -- expecially in desirable locations/times.  Massanutten appears to be playing games IMHO.  Using my Weeks acount, there were only 3 Woodstone units available in July 2014 -- and only one was a 2-bedroom.  Using the Points account, there were 57 units available during the same month.

Massanutten also gave me a couple additional options.  It boiled down to two options.

1.  Convert my two Woodstone weeks to 206,500 points/year for $7K.  Afterwards, the annual points cost would be about 1.50 points per MF cent using 2013 rates.

2.  Trade in my two Woodstone weeks and get one Regal Vista week for $10K.  It would be the most desirable week.  I would get 178,000 points, but my MF would decrease from $1290 annually to $785.  The annual points cost would be about 2.27 points per MF cent (2013 rates).  When I retire in a couple years, the lower MF would be nice, and upgrading from Woodstone to Regal Vistas also has personal value.  My wife likes this option.  She could not care less about the math.

I decided to go with Option 2.  My annual MF saving would be over $500 and in six years would make up for the extra $3K.  

So I met with the sales manager to change to Option 2, but all 178,000 point units had been sold.  

So, he advised me to cancel the Points Conversion (Option 1), and he'll call me the next time a 178K unit becomes available.

So I cancelled.  I'm still the owner of two Woodstone RCI Weeks.

I guess it gives me extra time to study and search for additional options, but I plan to go with Option 2 when one comes available -- if I cannot locate anything better.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Tommart


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## Tommart (Sep 27, 2013)

*Update:  Still on the Fence*

I haven't pulled the trigger, and have created additional options.

The two options that I'm considering:

1.  Just convert one of my Woodstone weeks to Points.  I assume that would cost me $3,500.  This would give me 116.5K RCI Points/year.

2.  Just buy a Points timeshare and keep my Woodstone units in Weeks (as several have recommended)

Grandview has a 122K RCI Point week that has similar MF as Woodstone.  Studying Ebay History there were two 122K Grandview weeks that recently sold -- one for about $3,300 and one for $3,700.  Might as well convert my Wk 24 Woodstone unit and not incur additional MF costs.

I decided that I will not convert both my Woodstone weeks to Points.  I don't need to convert both to get access to Points and I believe there's value of having both TPUs and Points.

I also learned that Points expire.  Big issue with me.  I currently have 180 tpus in Weeks and have 5 vacations already reserved over the next two years.  It would be difficult for me to use the Points if I got a large number.

I'll let you know once I do something.  Thanks for everyone's help. I particularly thank Tracy.  We shared a lot of emails.

In the meantime, I'm looking for a Points Timeshare to buy that gives at least 50K Points/year and has an RCI Points cost greater than 1 Point/MFcent.


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## dammert (Sep 30, 2013)

I don't need to convert both to get access to Points and I believe there's value of having both TPUs and Points.

__________________________
Regarder film la vie d'adèle streaming


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## Tommart (Oct 7, 2013)

*Sent Offer to Massanutten*

I sent an offer to Massanutten to convert my week 24 Woodstone 4 Luxury unit to Points for $3,000.  It would give me 116,500 points annually.

The response was something like, "Sorry that we could not work anything out.  I believe that our offer is much better than anything you'll find as a resale."

Looks like the developers best and final offer was $7K to convert both of my weeks, or $10K for a Regal Vista (and give them both of my Woodstone weeks).

I still want to own a Points resort.  I'll probably take my time and buy something for under $1K.

Tom


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 7, 2013)

*We Resemble That Remark.*




Tommart said:


> I still want to own a Points resort.  I'll probably take my time and buy something for under $1K.


That's what we did -- resale all the way. 

We took the points plunge in 2005 with an eBay minimal-points toehold into the points system for $152*.*52.  Closing, resort transfer, 1st year maintenance fee, & new RCI Points membership took the total outlay up near $1*,*000. (We had to pay to join RCI Points even though were already paid-ahead members of RCI Weeks.  Go figure.)

We were OK with the dinkiness of the points unit (15*,*000 annual points) because all we used'm for was last-minute _Instant Exchange_ reservations (7*,*500 points + exchange fee) rather than straight-points exchanges.  Even so, we deeded the unit back to the resort after a few years (with permission & cooperation) because the maintenance fees escalated ridiculously.  

We got an eBay replacement dinky points unit (18*,*500 annual points) for a couple of hundred bux, with free closing, free resort transfer, & free points (paid ahead maintenance fees).  Soon we gave that away & bought a semi-dinky points unit (24*,*667 annual points) for a couple hundred more bux, also with free closing & free resort transfer & free points.  

We caught on before long that for the same maintenance fee amount we could own a non-dinky points unit at the same resort (Vacation Village At Parkway, Kissimmee FL -- 30*,*833 annual points), so we bought 1 like that via eBay for about what we paid for the prior dinky & semi-dinky points units, also with free closing & free points, etc.  After we bought that, we gave away the semi-dinky points unit.  All we have left are our non-dinky points unit & 1 biennial straight-weeks unit at a different timeshare resort. 

Our total outlay for points unit acquisitions -- including the 3 that we gave away -- is way below what any of the timeshare companies we know about would charge for points conversion, which as we see it basically means paying the timeshare company more money for what we already own -- a non-starter in our book. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Miss Marty (Oct 9, 2013)

*Woodstone at Massanutten*

_
What`s wrong at Woodstone? Why are there so many units in RCI?_

RCI 5711 TPUs 4-19 now til 2015

This morning checking RCI weeks  
There were 1,304 units available for rent or exchange
All one & two bedroom units no four bedroom units listed!

Maybe Massanutten needs to drop the 1 in 4 year RCI rule
in order to get families to fill these beautiful mountain condos.

:whoopie:
This weeks RCI sale is offering a several off season units for rent 
as low as $199 per week.  Great for renters, but not for owners
who would like to rent their weeks to cover their maintenance fees.


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## Miss Marty (Oct 9, 2013)

*Woodstone @ McGaheysville Virginia*

_
Here are the 2013 Woodstone @ Massanutten
Annual Maintenance Fees for weeks owners:_

Casa de Campo 
KE  $575.00 

Woodstone 
Luxury FP $715.00  
Deluxe YN $680.00

Are the fees the same for points ownership?


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## Tommart (Oct 19, 2013)

*Reply*

Miss Marty
Woodstone is over built with about 400 units - all of which are lockouts. In addition there are other resorts at Massanutten - Regal Vistas, Summit, Eagle Trace, Mountainside Villas, Eagle Trace at Killy Ct' and Shenandoah Villas.

Each has a 1 in 5 rule' but you can stay in one this year and another the next
xt year. If you own at one they wave the 1 in 5 at all.  I currently have 3 regal Vistas reservations..

The MF is the same for points and weeks.

Tommart


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## Tommart (Oct 19, 2013)

*4 bedrooms*

Over 80 percent of Woodstone are 4 bedrooms.  I get 32 tpu when I deposit my week as two 2 - bedrooms.  I get 20 tpu if I deposit it as a 4 bedroom. 

If you want a 4-bedroom I would call RCI. It would be easy for Woodstone to create a 4-bedroom.  Not sure if RCI would charge you for two exchanges.


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## Carolinian (Oct 21, 2013)

Massanutten is overbuilt, and the 1 in 4 rule makes that even more so.  RCI Employee and (until the RCI class action) active Tugger Bootleg always told us there were four places where something was always available - Orlando, Branson, Williamsburg, and Massanutten.

This is just another example of how real factors of supply and demand are quite foreign to RCI's numbers racket in Points Lite (Weeks) or even more so in Points.  But before taking advantage of the fact that RCI right now has its thumb on the scales, one should consider what would happen if they decided to take it off, or if whatever under the table deal RCI has with the developer for that overpointing comes to an end.




Miss Marty said:


> _
> What`s wrong at Woodstone? Why are there so many units in RCI?_
> 
> RCI 5711 TPUs 4-19 now til 2015
> ...


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## csxjohn (Oct 22, 2013)

You started this thread and after only 6 days you wrote this.



Tommart said:


> ...I read all the advice from this thread, and other threads on TUG.  I tried my best to locate a For Sale Points timeshare that gave over 2 points/MFcent and could not locate any with purchase price below $7K.
> 
> ..



I got lost in the details of the thread but have 2 observations.

Six days is hardly enough time to read advice and find units at the price you want to pay.

Your sales person and her manager are not interested in finding you the best deal for you.  they are interested in you spending money with them so you will not get an unbiased opinion from them.


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## Tommart (Oct 24, 2013)

*Reply to csxjohn*

I agree 6 days is not enough time to fully learn about Points. 
For what it is worth I made a counter offer to the developer and they declined. We are no longer communicating. 

I made two offers on ebay but did not win. 

I am in no rush but still plan to add a Points unit. 

Tommart


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## Tommart (Nov 6, 2013)

*Final Disposition*

After placing about 5-6 ebay offers, I finally won one.

It was more RCI Points and MF than I wanted, but since I ski and have family in Vermont, I was drawn to this one.

I bought a week 5, 3 bedroom lockout at Smugglers Notch Resort in Vermont.  I paid $2,275 plus closing costs.

It is worth 159K RCI Points and has $1K MF.  Computes to just under 1.6 points/cent.

This works out similar to if Massanutten would have accepted my offer to convert my week 24 Woodstone week to 114.5K points for $3K.  The Woodstone MF is currently $715. 

I will sale my week 24 4-bed Woodstone Luxury unit.


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## Tommart (Nov 8, 2013)

*Not so Fast*

At my request I have been released from buying the Smugglers Notch Resort.  At SN Resort one must also own a second week with its own MF.  That was not shown in the ebay ad.

The seller, CJ Timeshares, say they did not realize about the second week.  CJ Timeshare was  reasonable to deal with and from the start said that if the week is anything other than 159K points with $1K MF, I could cancel the purchase.

So I'm back in the market looking for a Points week to buy.


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## Tommart (Dec 29, 2013)

*Determined*

Well, I just bought a RCI Points timeshare.

It cost $2.25 on ebay, but I need to pay the closing, transfer, and RCI upgrade/transfer fees.

I bought a summer week at Summer Bay in the Orlando area.  It's an annual 3-bed L/O with 126K RCI points.  MF and taxes are a little over $1K.  So I'm getting about 1.2 points per MF cent.

I hope the increased access to Points weeks will be worth the added costs.  Only time will tell.

This seems like a better option than paying $7000 to upgrade my Woodstone weeks to points.

I own two weeks at Woodstone in Massanutten.  I will get rid on one of these weeks.

Tommart


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## Tommart (Dec 29, 2013)

*Determined*

Delete this post.


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