# Are people stupid?



## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2020)

I live in a community of almost a thousand homes and over 80 percent are seniors.
two or more weeks ago, the master board shut down the club,bar, restaurant, the pools, tennis, bocce, wii bowling, cards, etc.   they let the golf course stay open to members, one in a cart if you wish, no flag poles, no rakes. 
All weekend i received alerts from Lee county Florida to stay inside, 
constant messages to stay inside

the following has been reported on social media this morning
Groups of ladies doing water aerobics in the pools
men going by, two in a cart for golf
eight ladies playing doubles tennis
every evening on a walk, groups congregating outside the condos
These people are not following social distancing and if one gets it, it will spread like wildfire through this subdivision

here I am afraid to go pick up my prescription, and these people are endangering our community.   There are a growing number of cases in our area.

in fact, next door neighbors family just came down for a vacation from Minnesota and they are staying on Marco island.  They said there is only ten percent occupancy at their hotel.  I thought Marco was closed to tourists and the state was also.


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## bbodb1 (Mar 30, 2020)

_*People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.*_


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## klpca (Mar 30, 2020)

Frustrating, isn't it.


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## Passepartout (Mar 30, 2020)

All that will change when the first neighbor dies from CV.


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## DaveNV (Mar 30, 2020)

People just don't think the rules apply to them.  So to answer your question, Yes.  They ARE stupid.

I had to make a run to a neighborhood convenience store yesterday.  I was all gloved-and-masked up, not touching anything, and being hyper-aware of the whole contagion thing.  So what happens?  As I'm purchasing the ONE item I went in to buy, the guy behind the counter was all La-dee-dah in his attitude, business as usual, blathering on about nothing in particular, touching everything in the process of ringing up my item, and then he hands it to me.  I carefully took it, and was about to make my way out the door, when his chatter took a serious turn.  He said, "Stay safe out there.  Some people don't think. This lady coughed all over me a few days ago, and never said a word. I might catch this now!"

I nearly freaked.  HE could be just as easily spreading the virus with his nonstop talking, and careless attitude.  I wiped down everything, including myself after I got home, to avoid bringing anything into the house.  I know we can only do so much, but to be so careless just seemed completely unthinking.  Needless to say, I won't be going back to that store anytime soon.

Dave, SMDH (Shaking My Damn Head)


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## tschwa2 (Mar 30, 2020)

I thought the same thing when I saw this article:  
*Florida church jammed for Sunday service despite pandemic*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-church-jammed-sunday-despite-101459281.html


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## Old Hickory (Mar 30, 2020)

I don't know if these examples are stupid (only time will tell) but I do know that hoarding toilet paper is stupid.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> People just don't think the rules apply to them.  So to answer your question, Yes.  They ARE stupid.
> 
> I had to make a run to a neighborhood convenience store yesterday.  I was all gloved-and-masked up, not touching anything, and being hyper-aware of the whole contagion thing.  So what happens?  As I'm purchasing the ONE item I went in to buy, the guy behind the counter was all La-dee-dah in his attitude, business as usual, blathering on about nothing in particular, touching everything in the process of ringing up my item, and then he hands it to me.  I carefully took it, and was about to make my way out the door, when his chatter took a serious turn.  He said, "Stay safe out there.  Some people don't think. This lady coughed all over me a few days ago, and never said a word. I might catch this now!"
> 
> ...


I read a news article several days ago about grocery store clerks are catching COVID-19.  We have not stepped into a store in more than 2 weeks and no plans to do so for the next 3 to 4 months.  Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.


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## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2020)

tschwa2 said:


> I thought the same thing when I saw this article:
> *Florida church jammed for Sunday service despite pandemic*
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-church-jammed-sunday-despite-101459281.html


Unbelievable,  all but ten churches totally shut down in my area


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## DaveNV (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.



As long as the delivery drivers stay healthy.   

Dave


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I read a news article several days ago about grocery store clerks are catching COVID-19.  We have not stepped into a store in more than 2 weeks and no plans to do so for the next 3 to 4 months.  Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.


Yes.  I am not keen on being in any kind of store, have felt that way for many weeks.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

I saw a headline about someone in NJ, I think, hosting a Coronavirus Party for 50.

I am not sure why people aren't realizing This Can Get You Dead Fast.

Makes me all the more determined to not leave home.  There is nobody that can be trusted.  I worry about those that crammed grocery stores when they got the Stay Home order.  I worry about those now housing their spring break kids.  

As time goes by and death toll rises, there will be more panic.  Some "what have I done?"  But it will be far too late.   So many people, in so many areas, far too late.   It hurts my heart.  

I'm trying to prepare myself for the horrors ahead.   I'm already having trouble with these numbers, and we know that lack of testing has obscured cases.    Both serious and recovered.  

I've been expecting my home city of Indy to eventually hit someone's radar as our death/case ratio has been alarming, with very little testing (still under 10k for the state, total).   Finally,  yesterday, Surgeon General called us out.  Indy locked down well before the rest of the state, which just got Stay Home last Thursday.  It's just far too late.  

I don't know how to prepare myself to lose people.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> As long as the delivery drivers stay healthy.
> 
> Dave


They use Fedex and UPS.  We have been getting other deliveries currently and we use lysol spray and Clorox wipe on the outside of the boxes and let it sit by the door for a day if they are not perishables.  With perishables we will similarly spray/wipe and let it sit for 2 hours before opening the boxes.  Thereafter, we will transfer items to the kitchen for sanitizing packaged products and washing fruits and vegetables.  Even before COVID-19, I used soap and water to wash outside of the fruits like cantaloupe, papaya and water melon.


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## elaine (Mar 30, 2020)

geekette said:


> There is nobody that can be trusted.


sadly--this.
Many people just don't get it. We have a neighborhood with some saying, "we're only playing with kids we know," while one parent is likely going to work still. So, that "family unit" is all those kids, plus their parents and all those parents' co-workers. I assume that someone in that chain has contact with a medical worker or 1st responder. And a self isolate mandate etc. without enforcement leaves selfish, stupid, or oblivious people to determine on their own what's OK. Like going to the store every other day vs. 1x/week. People still say they "feel fine" and "it's just a bad flu."
We live on a golf course-they're still golfing, but 1 to a cart, unless they came together (in a car-so already exposed). no hand shaking, etc. Gatherings cancelled.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Mar 30, 2020)

In a word - YES.

To quote Robert A. Heinlein:

"Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity."

Larry Niven's corollary:

"Nature doesn't care how much fun you are having."


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## HitchHiker71 (Mar 30, 2020)

Old habits die hard I suppose.  I think many people find it hard to adjust their lifestyle to fight an invisible enemy - especially given our predication and focus on individual rights and freedoms over the past 40 years.  The idea of community rights - doing something for the greater good - is obviously somewhat foreign to a significant subset of people - both old and young - and these are the folks that are still out there "living out loud" so to speak.  We will learn the hard way unfortunately - which historically has generally been the way most Americans learn unfortunately.

My wife is a nurse - and my 20 year old son works at a regional airport - both of which are deemed essential - so they are both still going to their respective facilities to work and will continue to do so.  So our family is already at higher risk given this fact.  For us, we have resigned ourselves to the fact that it's most likely a matter of when, and not if, COVID-19 comes to our home.


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## Eric B (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I read a news article several days ago about grocery store clerks are catching COVID-19.  We have not stepped into a store in more than 2 weeks and no plans to do so for the next 3 to 4 months.  Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.



All the grocery stores I go to have self checkout lines.  Those are the ones I'm using and they are being sterilized between patrons.


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## GetawaysRus (Mar 30, 2020)

To paraphrase a well-known Beatles song (Eleanor Rigby), please sing along:

_All the stupid people, 
Where do they all come from._


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

Eric B said:


> All the grocery stores I go to have self checkout lines.  Those are the ones I'm using and they are being sterilized between patrons.


The issue with shopping in the grocery stores is that other shoppers may inadvertently get close to you when passing through aisles.  Even with self checkout lines, you will need to sanitize the key pad, screen, the areas where you place your items before and after scanning the products.  People walking pass you, talking, coughing and sneezing.  Alot of things can go wrong.


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## Eric B (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> The issue with shopping in the grocery stores is that other shoppers may inadvertently get close to you when passing through aisles.  Even with self checkout lines, you will need to sanitize the key pad, screen, the areas where you place your items before and after scanning the products.  People walking pass you, talking, coughing and sneezing.  Alot of things can go wrong.



I understand that and am avoiding the stores where the vast majority of customers weren't being respectful of the need for social distancing.  Where I am shopping, the stores have clerks standing there to enforce the social distancing (respectfully, of course) and sterilize and wipe down each self checkout aisle after someone uses it.


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## elaine (Mar 30, 2020)

HitchHiker71 said:


> My wife is a nurse - and my 20 year old son works at a regional airport - both of which are deemed essential - so they are both still going to their respective facilities to work and will continue to do so.  So our family is already at higher risk given this fact.  For us, we have resigned ourselves to the fact that it's most likely a matter of when, and not if, COVID-19 comes to our home.


thanks to for your family for their service.  I cannot imagine the stress and anxiety for medical and others on the front lines.


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## easyrider (Mar 30, 2020)

We were up in the mountains checking on our cabin on Saturday. We received a call that some trees had fallen from high winds. Luckily, we only had trees on the main road and no trees took out the power. We didn't stay long but did take the scenic route back home. As we came closer to where the mountain road meets the highway we found many people camping in the closed forest. This entire area is under a State and Federal closure. The only people allowed up in these mountains overnight are property owners. 

My guess was maybe 50+ groups of campers. I could tell most were the for the weekend. 

One of the cabin owners cut a hole through a fallen over the road tree the width of their jeep. It is a big tree. My jeep lost the rear fender going through because it is newer and wider. I think the tree is like a gate protecting the properties right now as bored people and thieves head for the hills. 

Bill


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## DaveNV (Mar 30, 2020)

Eric B said:


> I understand that and am avoiding the stores where the vast majority of customers weren't being respectful of the need for social distancing.  Where I am shopping, the stores have clerks standing there to enforce the social distancing (respectfully, of course) and sterilize and wipe down each self checkout aisle after someone uses it.



Smart that they're doing that.  Consider, also, that the items you're picking up off the shelves may be contaminated by other shoppers. So even if it's "clean" to check out, you may still be taking the virus with you.  Take no chances.

Dave


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## VegasBella (Mar 30, 2020)

To be fair there are high risk activities and low risk activities. Staying home alone is nearly no-risk.

But I'm not going to fault people for engaging in low risk activities. For instance, assuming the pool is regularly cleaned and uses appropriate pool chemicals, doing water exercises at a distance from one another, particularly if the pool is outdoors, is likely low risk. The pool chemicals will destroy the virus and if it's outdoors then it won't last long in the air due to sun and wind. In my opinion, going grocery shopping is one of the highest risk activities someone can do. And a lot of people are doing that! The indoor air will keep the virus viable longer than outdoor air. Plus there are a lot more people at the stores adding germs all the time. Get delivery or do drive-up pick-up for groceries instead.

Please understand that this virus LINGERS IN THE AIR. It lingers longer in indoor air than outdoor air. And it spreads farther with a cough or sneeze but it appears to come from just regular breathing too. Cleaning surfaces and staying 6 feet apart is not enough, particularly indoors. Wear a mask if you go to indoor public places like a grocery store.


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## chapjim (Mar 30, 2020)

The local post office has strips of red-striped tape on the floor -- six feet apart.


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## easyrider (Mar 30, 2020)

VegasBella said:


> To be fair there are high risk activities and low risk activities. Staying home alone is nearly no-risk.
> 
> But I'm not going to fault people for engaging in low risk activities. For instance, assuming the pool is regularly cleaned and uses appropriate pool chemicals, doing water exercises at a distance from one another, particularly if the pool is outdoors, is likely low risk. The pool chemicals will destroy the virus and if it's outdoors then it won't last long in the air due to sun and wind. In my opinion, going grocery shopping is one of the highest risk activities someone can do. And a lot of people are doing that! The indoor air will keep the virus viable longer than outdoor air. Plus there are a lot more people at the stores adding germs all the time. Get delivery or do drive-up pick-up for groceries instead.
> 
> Please understand that this virus LINGERS IN THE AIR. It lingers longer in indoor air than outdoor air. And it spreads farther with a cough or sneeze but it appears to come from just regular breathing too. Cleaning surfaces and staying 6 feet apart is not enough, particularly indoors. Wear a mask if you go to indoor public places like a grocery store.



I thought Costco did a good job of keeping people apart and definitely a good job in the cleaning. Our carts were disinfected , the gas pump was disinfected and other high traffic areas were constantly cleaned. 

Bill


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## VegasBella (Mar 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I thought Costco did a good job of keeping people apart and definitely a good job in the cleaning. Our carts were disinfected , the gas pump was disinfected and other high traffic areas were constantly cleaned.
> 
> Bill


I don't know if our Costco did a good job or not because I didn't go. But now there are 2 confirmed cases at my local Costco, who knows how many more that haven't been tested?


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## Panina (Mar 30, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> As long as the delivery drivers stay healthy.
> 
> Dave


Risk is everywhere, bless those drivers. Disinfecting deliveries the best we can still imo is safer then the stores.  Unfortunately there are times we have to go as this will continue for awhile.


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## Makai Guy (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.


So you think all THEIR employees are any smarter and/or more responsible than those at the grocery store?


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 30, 2020)

I was at Costco about 1.5 weeks ago. I asked for cart wipes as I entered the door. The manager grabbed a paper towel, walked over to the hand sanitizer and squirted onto the towel and handed it to me. No one else was getting wipes.  This Costco never offered wipes before.

I asked him why they weren't regularly cleaning the carts with disinfectant or providing wipes to everyone. He said, "We are all out of wipes and won't get any soon." I mentioned that other stores  have employees with spray bottles (or even a few tablespoons of bleach in water in a spray bottle) and paper towels that can be used to disinfect each cart? He didn't seem to care.

Perhaps they have changed the policy but I haven't been back. There was little distancing and no precautions on carts so that disgusted me.

Our local grocery store has added sneeze guards at the cashier line and has plenty of wipes.  I feel sorry for the cashiers who get exposed constantly within 6 feet and must handle dirty money. IMO that is the most dangerous job in the store.


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## Karen G (Mar 30, 2020)

VegasBella said:


> I don't know if our Costco did a good job or not because I didn't go. But now there are 2 confirmed cases at my local Costco, who knows how many more that haven't been tested?


Which Costco is your local Costco in the Las Vegas area? Mine is the one on St. Rose Pkwy.  Were the two cases employees?


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

Makai Guy said:


> So you think all THEIR employees are any smarter and/or more responsible than those at the grocery store?


It is not about grocery employees vs. online store employees.  It is about not wanting to go into grocery stores and pick up water droplets in the air when people, ie. shoppers and employees, talk, cough and sneeze.  CDC has indicated that there is very low risk in getting transmission from surfaces.  It is about people to people transmission.


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## turkel (Mar 30, 2020)

It’s comical as a nurse its not recommended I wear a mask at work.

Gloves make me want to ROLOL.

If you are wearing gloves for longer than it takes to complete 1 task you are not protecting yourself. You are just transferring any virus via gloves. Your hands cant absorb the virus therefore wearing the same pair of gloves provides No protection.

Yes people are stupid. There is a special place for people walking around in N95 ‘s in my opinion.

Social Distancing and frequent hand washing is the only true defense.


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## Ken555 (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I read a news article several days ago about grocery store clerks are catching COVID-19. We have not stepped into a store in more than 2 weeks and no plans to do so for the next 3 to 4 months. Thank goodness for my hoarder habits and recent discovery of online meat, veges and fruits delivery sites.



If it hasn’t already been done (I haven’t seen it) we should start another thread with details of those sites that offer food delivery. I’ve got a few I use now, but always looking to see if there are better options. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VegasBella (Mar 30, 2020)

Karen G said:


> Which Costco is your local Costco in the Las Vegas area? Mine is the one on St. Rose Pkwy.  Were the two cases employees?











						Costco: Confirmed cases of coronavirus reported among employees
					

Employees with Costco Wholesale have tested positive for the coronavirus disease COVID-19, a corporate spokesperson confirmed Monday. Costco said it was "communicating relevant information to our employees. " There was no immediate confirmation on how many people tested positive or where they...




					news3lv.com


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> If it hasn’t already been done (I haven’t seen it) we should start another thread with details of those sites that offer food delivery. I’ve got a few I use now, but always looking to see if there are better options.


That's a good idea.  Can also post specials, coupons or rare finds.


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## DaveNV (Mar 30, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I feel sorry for the cashiers who get exposed constantly within 6 feet and must handle dirty money. IMO that is the most dangerous job in the store.



This is why my spouse is on a leave of absence from Costco right now.  Working directly across the counter with hundreds of members all day long, one after the other, having to touch and inspect returned items from them, handling membership cards, money, whatever - it's a guaranteed recipe for infection. 

In my opinion, cashiers aren't ever paid enough for the job they do - even at Costco.

Dave


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> If it hasn’t already been done (I haven’t seen it) we should start another thread with details of those sites that offer food delivery. I’ve got a few I use now, but always looking to see if there are better options.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Agree.  Do you want to volunteer to start one?


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## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

This makes me wonder if grocery stores should be shut down to the public and just have shoppers deliver goods.


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 30, 2020)

Everyone in my social circle (we're all in our 30s) are cowering at home telling our boomer parents to STAY THE F INSIDE.  It's the ones that should be worried that aren't taking this seriously. Well when ventilators start to be rationed at least I know I will get one if I need it because I have the highest chance of survival based on age, gender and health (165 lb 30 year old with no preexisting conditions). It's the stupid 60+ year olds that are still out and about. Do they not realize that if ventilators get rationed, they're not going to get one based on age? They will prioritize them on occupation (health care worker first), then age and preexisting conditions. When they run out of ventilators, it will be rationed in a way that will have the lowest number of casualties.


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## Rjbeach2003 (Mar 30, 2020)

(political comments removed)
 I'm in Oregon and the first weekend there was social distancing and school closures, people flocked the Oregon coast.  Finally businesses and residents told them to leave they weren't welcome right now.  It's calmed down now.  My wife and I have been staying at home for over two weeks now. 
I was on blogs for Italy and there were Italians claiming that the danger was vastly overblown.  Now Italy has the most debts in the world, with over 11,500 and over 800 new deaths today.  There hasn't been any of that talk on the blogs recently. 
Remember the president said at the first of the month that it would all be over in 15 days, they had it under control  Today we have almost 156,000 cases nearly 2500 deaths with an increase of cases 12,500 since yesterday and 271 new deaths since yesterday.  It will hit Florida, and if it doesn't hit as hard as NY it will be because of the drastic measures taken there.


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## Karen G (Mar 30, 2020)

VegasBella said:


> Costco: Confirmed cases of coronavirus reported among employees
> 
> 
> Employees with Costco Wholesale have tested positive for the coronavirus disease COVID-19, a corporate spokesperson confirmed Monday. Costco said it was "communicating relevant information to our employees. " There was no immediate confirmation on how many people tested positive or where they...
> ...


Wow--thanks for the link to that article.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> This makes me wonder if grocery stores should be shut down to the public and just have shoppers deliver goods.


No thank you!

The shoppers would be need to be paid at least 80k, salary, no relying on tips, full benefits.  That's not going to happen.

Plus, I like to do my own shopping and would not be ok removing an approved reason to leave home.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2020)

I do think that grocery workers need to have full face protection - goggles and masks, and not to make unnecessary small talk.  Even before COVID-19, I hated those cheery small talk.  Just ring up those items and get the queue moving!


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## JanT (Mar 30, 2020)

I'm sure you're being facetious but the line really is, "Ahhh, look at all the lonely people.  Where do they all come from?"  LoL  But, in our current situation, it is perfectly acceptable to substitute the word "lonely" with the word "stupid."



GetawaysRus said:


> To paraphrase a well-known Beatles song (Eleanor Rigby), please sing along:
> 
> _All the stupid people,
> Where do they all come from._


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## Brett (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> This makes me wonder if grocery stores should be shut down to the public and just have shoppers deliver goods.




Closing all the grocery stores would be truly be at the end-times


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## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

geekette said:


> No thank you!
> 
> The shoppers would be need to be paid at least 80k, salary, no relying on tips, full benefits.  That's not going to happen.
> 
> Plus, I like to do my own shopping and would not be ok removing an approved reason to leave home.



I was thinking to protect the store employees. I feel really bad that the cashiers are taking so much risk for so little money. Not that anyone should take this risk, regardless of salary. I feel really bad for doctors, nurses and health care workers on the front lines. Think about it. In a war or 9/11, health care workers did not have to risk their own lives (and family’s life) to save others. With an infectious disease, there is no other way.


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## Brett (Mar 30, 2020)

Rjbeach2003 said:


> It's important to understand that there are about 40% of the population that simply don't believe the news.   They have heard "Fake News" so many times, plus websites that have downplayed the danger for months, Jerry Falwell Jr who is opening up his family university, the governor of Florida who had to be drug kicking and screaming to reality.  I'm in Oregon and the first weekend there was social distancing and school closures, people flocked the Oregon coast.  Finally businesses and residents told them to leave they weren't welcome right now.  It's calmed down now.  My wife and I have been staying at home for over two weeks now.
> I was on blogs for Italy and there were Italians claiming that the danger was vastly overblown.  Now Italy has the most debts in the world, with over 11,500 and over 800 new deaths today.  There hasn't been any of that talk on the blogs recently.
> Remember the president said at the first of the month that it would all be over in 15 days, they had it under control  Today we have almost 156,000 cases nearly 2500 deaths with an increase of cases 12,500 since yesterday and 271 new deaths since yesterday.  It will hit Florida, and if it doesn't hit as hard as NY it will be because of the drastic measures taken there.



I think that 40% has gone down in the past few weeks


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## Panina (Mar 30, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> It is not about grocery employees vs. online store employees.  It is about not wanting to go into grocery stores and pick up water droplets in the air when people, ie. shoppers and employees, talk, cough and sneeze.  CDC has indicated that there is very low risk in getting transmission from surfaces.  It is about people to people transmission.


There is another theory too, you touch something that has it and then touch your face.  That is how some medical professionals think it is spreading.  So just make sure, as I know you are, to wipe everything delivered and wash up.  I still feel safer with delivery as it is only the surface stuff I have to be concerned about.


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## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

Brett said:


> Closing all the grocery stores would be truly be at the end-times



Frankly, at this point, it would not surprise me if grocery stores closed. I am already past being able to be shocked by the havoc this virus is causing. A few weeks ago, I would have never predicted a world shut down. If grocery stores closed to protect the lives of its workers, and shifted to deliveries, it would be difficult but still possible to live. I do not think it will happen but it could. Anything could happen. I am not naive anymore. My eyes have been opened to the risks in this world.


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## Panina (Mar 30, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> If it hasn’t already been done (I haven’t seen it) we should start another thread with details of those sites that offer food delivery. I’ve got a few I use now, but always looking to see if there are better options.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Constantly changing, each day harder to get service.


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## WVBaker (Mar 30, 2020)

Rjbeach2003 said:


> It's important to understand that there are about 40% of the population that simply don't believe the news.   They have heard "Fake News" so many times, plus websites that have downplayed the danger for months, Jerry Falwell Jr who is opening up his family university, the governor of Florida who had to be drug kicking and screaming to reality.  I'm in Oregon and the first weekend there was social distancing and school closures, people flocked the Oregon coast.  Finally businesses and residents told them to leave they weren't welcome right now.  It's calmed down now.  My wife and I have been staying at home for over two weeks now.
> I was on blogs for Italy and there were Italians claiming that the danger was vastly overblown.  Now Italy has the most debts in the world, with over 11,500 and over 800 new deaths today.  There hasn't been any of that talk on the blogs recently.
> Remember the president said at the first of the month that it would all be over in 15 days, they had it under control  Today we have almost 156,000 cases nearly 2500 deaths with an increase of cases 12,500 since yesterday and 271 new deaths since yesterday.  It will hit Florida, and if it doesn't hit as hard as NY it will be because of the drastic measures taken there.



Given the information at the time, 15 days seemed reasonable. And unfortunately there was and continues to be "fake news"


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 30, 2020)

I am not able to get any Instacart or Safeway deliveries because there are no slots in my area even though they say they deliver. I was able to book a curbside pick-up slot at Safeway 5 days out. When I got there to pick up my order they were not able to fill $100 of my order because many of the items were out of stock. grrrrr.

Also most paper and cleaning supplies are not available for delivery or curbside. This will force elders at risk to enter stores at some point. All of the out of stock items and having to look around for availability at multiple stores feels like shopping at a Russian grocery store.


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## Brett (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Frankly, at this point, it would not surprise me if grocery stores closed. I am already past being able to be shocked by the havoc this virus is causing. A few weeks ago, I would have never predicted a world shut down. If grocery stores closed to protect the lives of its workers, and shifted to deliveries, it would be difficult but still possible to live. I do not think it will happen but it could. Anything could happen. I am not naive anymore. My eyes have been opened to the risks in this world.



it would be possible for people to live without grocery stores but many (most?) would not be able to pay the delivery fees
I don't think it's time  (yet) to mobilize the National Guard and Army to deliver TP and hamburgers to the populace


----------



## bbodb1 (Mar 30, 2020)

While it is getting more prevalent, delivery services just are nowhere near being ready to exclusively handle the crushing demands of grocery delivery. 
Especially in the more rural areas.


----------



## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

Brett said:


> it would be possible for people to live without grocery stores but many (most?) would not be able to pay the delivery fees



Yes.  I can't overpay, I don't have spare money.  I can't then also tip.


----------



## Old Hickory (Mar 30, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Everyone in my social circle (we're all in our 30s) are cowering at home telling our boomer parents to STAY THE F INSIDE.  It's the ones that should be worried that aren't taking this seriously. Well when ventilators start to be rationed at least I know I will get one if I need it because I have the highest chance of survival based on age, gender and health (165 lb 30 year old with no preexisting conditions). It's the stupid 60+ year olds that are still out and about. Do they not realize that if ventilators get rationed, they're not going to get one based on age? They will prioritize them on occupation (health care worker first), then age and preexisting conditions. When they run out of ventilators, it will be rationed in a way that will have the lowest number of casualties.



Boomers vs. Doomers?     Social Circle vs. Survival Circle?   My money is on the folks who experienced 1969, grew a family after Sept 11, and more than likely have survived cancer.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Mar 30, 2020)

Passepartout said:


> All that will change when the first neighbor dies from CV.


This. or when someone in the community is diagnosed. Of course, the horse will have left the barn by then. Sad that these morons put everyone else at risk.


----------



## Big Matt (Mar 30, 2020)

It would probably be simpler to go pick up groceries in a parking lot.  Grocery store can set up a tent where you can drive up and give an order number, staff goes and gets your already bagged/boxed groceries, put it in your car, and you leave.  Doesn't sound too hard.  A small local store near me did this and it was simple.


----------



## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> It would probably be simpler to go pick up groceries in a parking lot.  Grocery store can set up a tent where you can drive up and give an order number, staff goes and gets your already bagged/boxed groceries, put it in your car, and you leave.  Doesn't sound too hard.  A small local store near me did this and it was simple.



Yes, this seems like a good alternative. I wonder why more grocery stores are not doing this to protect their employees and customers.


----------



## WVBaker (Mar 30, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Everyone in my social circle (we're all in our 30s) are cowering at home telling our boomer parents to STAY THE F INSIDE.  It's the ones that should be worried that aren't taking this seriously. Well when ventilators start to be rationed at least I know I will get one if I need it because I have the highest chance of survival based on age, gender and health (165 lb 30 year old with no preexisting conditions). It's the stupid 60+ year olds that are still out and about. Do they not realize that if ventilators get rationed, they're not going to get one based on age? They will prioritize them on occupation (health care worker first), then age and preexisting conditions. When they run out of ventilators, it will be rationed in a way that will have the lowest number of casualties.



Speaking as one those "stupid 60+ year olds", you're basing this on facts or just your own illogical, biased reasoning?

Now, if you don't mind, go back to cowering.


----------



## DannyTS (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Yes, this seems like a good alternative. I wonder why more grocery stores are not doing this to protect their employees and customers.


this is exactly how I have been doing my grocery shopping in the last 2 weeks (no symptoms but in self isolation since we had  traveled to Mexico.
Once we are in the parking lot we call the store number, they just come out with our groceries. Already paid online so we just say thank you and leave.


----------



## x3 skier (Mar 30, 2020)

The grocery stores I use have squares marked on the floor where people almost without exception wait.  There are shields between the cashiers and patrons.  They have folks gloved and masked wiping things down.

Cheers


----------



## controller1 (Mar 30, 2020)

To answer the original question - Are people stupid?

Yes and you can't fix stupid!


----------



## clifffaith (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I was thinking to protect the store employees. I feel really bad that the cashiers are taking so much risk for so little money. Not that anyone should take this risk, regardless of salary. I feel really bad for doctors, nurses and health care workers on the front lines. Think about it. In a war or 9/11, health care workers did not have to risk their own lives (and family’s life) to save others. With an infectious disease, there is no other way.



I believe it was Smart & Final that sent out an email in our area (Los Angeles) saying the grocery clerks were getting a raise of $2.50 an hour for hazard pay. Wouldn't tempt me, but at least they are trying to compensate their people.


----------



## x3 skier (Mar 30, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> It would probably be simpler to go pick up groceries in a parking lot.  Grocery store can set up a tent where you can drive up and give an order number, staff goes and gets your already bagged/boxed groceries, put it in your car, and you leave.  Doesn't sound too hard.  A small local store near me did this and it was simple.



All the major grocery stores in my area in Ohio (Kroger, Walmart, local chains) had been offering this service long before the virus was even heard of.

Cheers


----------



## RX8 (Mar 30, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> As long as the delivery drivers stay healthy.
> 
> Dave



Yes, (some) people are stupid. 

Can’t trust all delivery people. Did you hear the story of the Amazon delivery driver intentionally spitting on a package he delivered?  









						Amazon delivery driver caught on video spitting on package
					

An Amazon delivery driver was caught on video appearing to spit on his hand and wiping it on a package delivered to a resident's door in Hancock Park.




					www.google.com


----------



## Panina (Mar 30, 2020)

Spent hours trying to get a local delivery or curbside pickup even an hour away..  I almost gave up and then looked at Instacart again and there was a slot for today within two hours from Publix. 

Meanwhile my other half is finally staying out of the groceries/stores and participating in what to order from farms.  

He  did go to drive thru of Starbucks today and then on the way home talked with 3 other neighbors, he says 6 feet apart but to me it looked closer but it was down the block so it probably looked closer then it was.  To me both were not necessary  I would prefer he didn’t take any risk 
even if it follows the guidelines.  Others think I am overacting.  I think with all the deaths how can you be underreacting?  Keep praying he doesn't bring it home and everyone I know and love stays safe.


----------



## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> this is exactly how I have been doing my grocery shopping in the last 2 weeks (no symptoms but in self isolation since we had  traveled to Mexico.
> Once we are in the parking lot we call the store number, they just come out with our groceries. Already paid online so we just say thank you and leave.


Right, curbside.  vs hauling everything to the parking lot.


----------



## JudyH (Mar 30, 2020)

Rapmarks. I live up the road from you in Venice. Yes. Many people are stupid.


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## JudyH (Mar 30, 2020)

In the good old days, prior to 2013, I was never sick. We lived on a farm, I worked in school and and. Pediatric office. I washed before eating, but not if I was out on my horse. I never had the flu and I never had flu shots. 
Then I retired. No more farm, no more schools, no more office. Got diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. Had several upper respiratory problems. Getting old is no fun.


----------



## bbodb1 (Mar 30, 2020)

JudyH said:


> In the good old days, prior to 2013, I was never sick. We lived on a farm, I worked in school and and. Pediatric office. I washed before eating, but not if I was out on my horse. I never had the flu and I never had flu shots.
> Then I retired. No more farm, no more schools, no more office. Got diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. Had several upper respiratory problems. Getting old is no fun.


Get back on that horse!


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Mar 30, 2020)

x3 skier said:


> All the major grocery stores in my area in Ohio (Kroger, Walmart, local chains) had been offering this service long before the virus was even heard of.
> 
> Cheers




Would love to have had these services 20 years ago when my children were babies. Trying to haul babies into a store when all you need is milk, bread and eggs is not easy. Instacart even better. Don't need to bundle up to take the kids out of the house.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Would love to have had these services 20 years ago when my children were babies. Trying to haul babies into a store when all you need is milk, bread and eggs is not easy. Instacart even better. Don't need to bundle up to take the kids out of the house.


When we were kids, mom didn't get arrested for neglect if she left us in the car for 10 minutes.


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## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

The title of this thread "Are People Stupid" has been bothering me. Maybe because it is shaming and judgmental. I think there are better words to describe why people are not following stay at home and social distancing guidelines. People are irrational. They are bad at estimating risk. They do not like being told what to do. They have been told to not live in fear (that was a big message after 9/11). These things do not feel real if they do not know anyone with it. They may be bored out of their mind. Many people still have to work. They may think they will not get it or they could survive if they got it. There are many reasons people are not following strict recommendations. This reminds me of many other health issues. Why do people not use condoms? Why do people smoke? Why do people overeat to the point of obesity? Why do people drink and drive? Why do people use drugs? Why do people refuse to take their medications? Why do some people refuse vaccinations? I could go on and on about the irrational things people do when they know the risks of their behavior to themselves and others. Frankly, I am sure we have all been guilty of being "stupid" about health matters and other irrational behaviors at some point in our lives and maybe even now.


----------



## Brett (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> The title of this thread "Are People Stupid" has been bothering me. Maybe because it is shaming and judgmental. I think there are better words to describe why people are not following stay at home and social distancing guidelines. People are irrational. They are bad at estimating risk. They do not like being told what to do. They have been told to not live in fear (that was a big message after 9/11). These things do not feel real if they do not know anyone with it. They may be bored out of their mind. Many people still have to work. They may think they will not get it or they could survive if they got it. There are many reasons people are not following strict recommendations. This reminds me of many other health issues. Why do people not use condoms? Why do people smoke? Why do people overeat to the point of obesity? Why do people drink and drive? Why do people use drugs? Why do people refuse to take their medications? Why do some people refuse vaccinations? I could go on and on about the irrational things people do when they know the risks of their behavior to themselves and others. Frankly, I am sure we have all been guilty of being "stupid" about health matters and other irrational behaviors at some point in our lives and maybe even now.



valid point
I was in Lowe's and grocery stores this weekend - crowded but people were keeping distance
Maybe 'stupid" is the wrong adjective


----------



## WinniWoman (Mar 30, 2020)

I plan on going to the supermarket tomorrow. I will take a mask and gloves with me. I have to look at the produce, so I could not order stuff like that online. Also, I like to see what is available that maybe is not on my list and and compare things. I am not afraid of going to the stores. I am careful but not in a neurotic way. 

I talk to people from a distance. My husband and I took a nice long walk today. There were a few people out, but the weather was gloomy so the area was really empty. 

If the weather improves eventually we probably will go to Lowes also so hubby can buy lattice to put around the bottom of our front porch and/or maybe for another small project. He is going bonkers. I am getting very bored to the point I don't even want to cook anymore. Remember, when I worked I was always out and about each and every day- in and out of my car- talking to people. I can be a homebody also, but not to this degree.


----------



## WinniWoman (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> The title of this thread "Are People Stupid" has been bothering me. Maybe because it is shaming and judgmental. I think there are better words to describe why people are not following stay at home and social distancing guidelines. People are irrational. They are bad at estimating risk. They do not like being told what to do. They have been told to not live in fear (that was a big message after 9/11). These things do not feel real if they do not know anyone with it. They may be bored out of their mind. Many people still have to work. They may think they will not get it or they could survive if they got it. There are many reasons people are not following strict recommendations. This reminds me of many other health issues. Why do people not use condoms? Why do people smoke? Why do people overeat to the point of obesity? Why do people drink and drive? Why do people use drugs? Why do people refuse to take their medications? Why do some people refuse vaccinations? I could go on and on about the irrational things people do when they know the risks of their behavior to themselves and others. Frankly, I am sure we have all been guilty of being "stupid" about health matters and other irrational behaviors at some point in our lives and maybe even now.



OMG. I totally agree. I have been trying to make this point with people I am friends with who are so angry about whom they consider stupid or selfish for supposedly- in THEIR estimation- not obeying the social distancing "rule". Judging people without even knowing their "story" does not help anything anyway. 

None of us is perfect, that's for sure.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> This makes me wonder if grocery stores should be shut down to the public and just have shoppers deliver goods.


Grocery stores aren't staffed to handle this. Given that, and with all the other services that are already booked up, it would probably take forever to get groceries.


----------



## Panina (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> The title of this thread "Are People Stupid" has been bothering me. Maybe because it is shaming and judgmental. I think there are better words to describe why people are not following stay at home and social distancing guidelines. People are irrational. They are bad at estimating risk. They do not like being told what to do. They have been told to not live in fear (that was a big message after 9/11). These things do not feel real if they do not know anyone with it. They may be bored out of their mind. Many people still have to work. They may think they will not get it or they could survive if they got it. There are many reasons people are not following strict recommendations. This reminds me of many other health issues. Why do people not use condoms? Why do people smoke? Why do people overeat to the point of obesity? Why do people drink and drive? Why do people use drugs? Why do people refuse to take their medications? Why do some people refuse vaccinations? I could go on and on about the irrational things people do when they know the risks of their behavior to themselves and others. Frankly, I am sure we have all been guilty of being "stupid" about health matters and other irrational behaviors at some point in our lives and maybe even now.


You are right, I changed  my post with different words even though it was directed at my other half.


----------



## caribbeanqueen (Mar 30, 2020)

Judyh I have a vacation home in Venice (if you are talking Florida).


----------



## JanT (Mar 30, 2020)

HEB in Texas has curbside delivery, which is wonderful.  We haven't been to the store in 3 weeks and although some things have been difficult to get because of hoarding issues it has worked really well for us.  I'm not sure I'll go into the store regularly when this is all over.



Big Matt said:


> It would probably be simpler to go pick up groceries in a parking lot.  Grocery store can set up a tent where you can drive up and give an order number, staff goes and gets your already bagged/boxed groceries, put it in your car, and you leave.  Doesn't sound too hard.  A small local store near me did this and it was simple.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> The title of this thread "Are People Stupid" has been bothering me. Maybe because it is shaming and judgmental. I think there are better words to describe why people are not following stay at home and social distancing guidelines. People are irrational. They are bad at estimating risk. They do not like being told what to do. They have been told to not live in fear (that was a big message after 9/11). These things do not feel real if they do not know anyone with it. They may be bored out of their mind. Many people still have to work. They may think they will not get it or they could survive if they got it. There are many reasons people are not following strict recommendations. This reminds me of many other health issues. Why do people not use condoms? Why do people smoke? Why do people overeat to the point of obesity? Why do people drink and drive? Why do people use drugs? Why do people refuse to take their medications? Why do some people refuse vaccinations? I could go on and on about the irrational things people do when they know the risks of their behavior to themselves and others. Frankly, I am sure we have all been guilty of being "stupid" about health matters and other irrational behaviors at some point in our lives and maybe even now.


Yes, I guess it is.  But when the sign says pool closed, but the health department will not allow it to be locked, what do you call lots of people who ignore the sign and go ahead.  I am not talking about a handful, the gold course is busy all day, there are the same groups socializing in driveways, at least thirty or more,and probably over fifty peopleni. The pools,band then add in the tennis players.  They have not changed their lifestyle at all.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2020)




----------



## TravelTime (Mar 30, 2020)

rapmarks said:


> View attachment 18405



This is good and brings the risk to life. However, I still think many people would play Russian roulette and try to beat the odds. That explains why it looks like so many people have not changed their behavior.

Maybe your community needs to close the golf course or at least set up some social distancing guidelines.

BTW, what city is this? Do you have many cases yet?


----------



## MrockStar (Mar 31, 2020)

geekette said:


> When we were kids, mom didn't get arrested for neglect if she left us in the car for 10 minutes.


Right, i remember those good old days.


----------



## isisdave (Mar 31, 2020)

stupid : having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense

By definition, half of the population has less-than-median intelligence and/or common sense. So maybe the bottom third fall into that "great lack" category. I think it's a fair word, but one that we don't use much out loud, and teach our children not to use. I guess stupid acts are OK to mention, but not so much stupid people, although the definition certainly is apt for both.

But we all think it every day, especially of drivers, even in ordinary times. And it's true that a lot of otherwise intelligent people don't plan ahead much, but kind of live in the moment. It puzzles those of us who are linear thinkers, but it doesn't surprise me much any more.

==========

Speaking of gloves: I find that wearing them really helps me remember not to touch my face.  We like the thin cotton ones used to handle jewelry, coins, photos and such. They breathe and are easy to wash when you get home.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 31, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> This is good and brings the risk to life. However, I still think many people would play Russian roulette and try to beat the odds. That explains why it looks like so many people have not changed their behavior.
> 
> Maybe your community needs to close the golf course or at least set up some social distancing guidelines.
> 
> BTW, what city is this? Do you have many cases yet?


The community has set up the guidelines, they are not patrolling it though.  The city is estero, right between naples and fort Myers.  Pelican bay in Naples made the news because their beach club was opened and it was packed.  All the beaches are closed here because the spring breakers went wild.  As our governor said, jello shots off strangers belly is not social distancing.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Mar 31, 2020)

"Think of it as evolution in action. . . " - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle


----------



## presley (Mar 31, 2020)

I still seeing people playing tennis every day. I assume that they all don't live together, but who really knows. I also saw a mom with several kids watching one of her sons get a private lesson from a basketball coach. This is all in an outdoor park where I walk my dogs. 

My husband's business is complementary health. While most people are cancelling their appointments, we have several people who are insisting that they need to come in this week. I looked at the schedule and I see 4 elderly couples - in all cases, the husbands have dementia or alzheimers. What the hell are the wives thinking?


----------



## klpca (Mar 31, 2020)

I work in a two person office in a larger office building. I am 90% working from home and go into the office for less than 5 hours once a week to keep things running (not my choice but that's another story). Most of the other tenants are working from home or closed but one office (not essential) is quietly open for business and according to my co-worker, had an after hours happy hour in their conference room last week. With families. Seriously? This is not because they are stupid, it is because they are selfish and arrogant. Personally I want this whole nightmare to end (who doesn't?) and the sooner we get serious about social distancing the sooner it will be over. But as long as we have fools like this, it will be wasted effort by the rest of us.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 31, 2020)

klpca said:


> I work in a two person office in a larger office building. I am 90% working from home and go into the office for less than 5 hours once a week to keep things running (not my choice but that's another story). Most of the other tenants are working from home or closed but one office (not essential) is quietly open for business and according to my co-worker, had an after hours happy hour in their conference room last week. With families. Seriously? This is not because they are stupid, it is because they are selfish and arrogant. Personally I want this whole nightmare to end (who doesn't?) and the sooner we get serious about social distancing the sooner it will be over. But as long as we have fools like this, it will be wasted effort by the rest of us.


Right,  how long can people isolate themselves.  I have been isolated three weeks, but hundreds of neighbors have not.   So we start up all over again.  Lots of cases in lee and collier counties, so medical facilities overcrowded.  Also on news,nurse got off a 12 hour shift to find her car was stolen.


----------



## x3 skier (Mar 31, 2020)

From an interview from the Director of The Centers for Disease Control.

“At the end of the day, most of us who get this infection will recover. The majority of people do — probably 98%, almost 98.5%, 99% recover. The challenge is the older, the vulnerable, the elderly, those with significant medical conditions where this virus has shown a propensity to have a significant mortality.”

https://apple.news/AZWeq6JfQTsuAUyB5BoY4HQ

Cheers


----------



## Maple_Leaf (Mar 31, 2020)

Are people stupid?








						Ontario woman treks to Everest base camp, now stranded in Nepal due to coronavirus pandemic  | Globalnews.ca
					

There is a Facebook group indicating at least 144 Canadians are currently stuck in Nepal.




					globalnews.ca


----------



## Brett (Mar 31, 2020)

Maple_Leaf said:


> Are people stupid?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When they left the country in early March they thought the coronavirus would not be much of a problem, at least she is not stuck on top of the mountain !


----------



## Maple_Leaf (Mar 31, 2020)

Brett said:


> When they left the country in early March they thought the coronavirus would not be much of a problem, at least she is not stuck on top of the mountain !


Are people stupid?  No, I think just living in their own reality and oblivious to much of the world around them.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 31, 2020)

A DJ  diEd in fort Myers last Thursday of Covid 19, he was diagnosed four days before he died. What is really scary is he performed three days in a row about a week before he was diagnosed.


----------



## billymach4 (Mar 31, 2020)

Simple answer to your question . YES people are stupid!


----------



## bluehende (Mar 31, 2020)

isisdave said:


> stupid : having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense
> 
> By definition, half of the population has less-than-median intelligence and/or common sense. So maybe the bottom third fall into that "great lack" category. I think it's a fair word, but one that we don't use much out loud, and teach our children not to use. I guess stupid acts are OK to mention, but not so much stupid people, although the definition certainly is apt for both.
> 
> ...


  I love tug.....

you sent me to the fancy thinking box and googled this;









						Survey Finds Most Americans Think That They Have Above Average Intelligence
					

Survey Finds Most Americans Think That They Have Above Average Intelligence




					www.iflscience.com
				




I got a good laugh at this being a male.


A new US-based nationally representative survey has found that 65 percent of respondents (70 percent in men, 60 percent in women) agree with this rather telling statement: “I am more intelligent than the average person.” Hopefully this doesn’t require a rudimentary lesson in statistics to explain why this simply isn’t possible.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 31, 2020)

The only thing to fear is fear itself. And stupid, you need to fear stupid.


----------



## am1 (Mar 31, 2020)

bluehende said:


> I love tug.....
> 
> you sent me to the fancy thinking box and googled this;
> 
> ...


Quite possibly in their eyes of the world they feel that way.  Or their small part of the world.


----------



## WinniWoman (Mar 31, 2020)

presley said:


> I still seeing people playing tennis every day. I assume that they all don't live together, but who really knows. I also saw a mom with several kids watching one of her sons get a private lesson from a basketball coach. This is all in an outdoor park where I walk my dogs.
> 
> My husband's business is complementary health. While most people are cancelling their appointments, we have several people who are insisting that they need to come in this week. I looked at the schedule and I see 4 elderly couples - in all cases, the husbands have dementia or alzheimers. What the hell are the wives thinking?



I would think you could play tennis and keep the 6 foot distance easily.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Mar 31, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> I would think you could play tennis and keep the 6 foot distance easily.


Yes but they touch the balls to serve. Perhaps it is a family?


----------



## WinniWoman (Mar 31, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Yes but they touch the balls to serve. Perhaps it is a family?



Could be. Or the players just wash their hands before the game- heck- wash the ball, too- and all is well.


----------



## TravelTime (Mar 31, 2020)

rapmarks said:


> The community has set up the guidelines, they are not patrolling it though.  The city is estero, right between naples and fort Myers.  Pelican bay in Naples made the news because their beach club was opened and it was packed.  All the beaches are closed here because the spring breakers went wild.  As our governor said, jello shots off strangers belly is not social distancing.



Does your city or county have a stay at home order? I read that Florida does not have a state wide order and it depends on the city or county. Maybe that is part of the problem. The state needs to take the lead and enforce it. Here in California we were the first to have a Shelter in Place order by the governor. I really think it has helped for our leadership to mandate it. It seems most people here are taking SIP seriously. There are some preliminary reports from hospitals and doctors in the SF BayArea that our health care system is able to handle the cases. Apple where my husband works started the work from home a full week before it was mandated by the state.


----------



## plpgma (Mar 31, 2020)

This is a direct reply to the orignal question:  Yes


----------



## controller1 (Mar 31, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Does your city or county have a stay at home order? I read that Florida does not have a state wide order and it depends on the city or county. Maybe that is part of the problem. The state needs to take the lead and enforce it. Here in California we were the first to have a Shelter in Place order by the governor. I really think it has helped for our leadership to mandate it. It seems most people here are taking SIP seriously. There are some preliminary reports from hospitals and doctors in the SF BayArea that our health care system is able to handle the cases. Apple where my husband works started the work from home a full week before it was mandated by the state.



We have two large states, Florida and Texas, erecting barriers for visitors from other states but not taking responsibility to corral their own citizens with a stay-at-home order to prevent the spread of this virus.


----------



## JudyH (Mar 31, 2020)

caribbeanqueen said:


> Judyh I have a vacation home in Venice (if you are talking Florida).


I am in Stoneybrook in Venice full time. We love it here.


----------



## cbyrne1174 (Mar 31, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Does your city or county have a stay at home order? I read that Florida does not have a state wide order and it depends on the city or county. Maybe that is part of the problem. The state needs to take the lead and enforce it. Here in California we were the first to have a Shelter in Place order by the governor. I really think it has helped for our leadership to mandate it. It seems most people here are taking SIP seriously. There are some preliminary reports from hospitals and doctors in the SF BayArea that our health care system is able to handle the cases. Apple where my husband works started the work from home a full week before it was mandated by the state.




It depends on the area. Much of FL is rural so a statewide shut down isn't necessary. Tampa and Jacksonville aren't really hit that hard. Florida's economy already took an insane beating by closing the parks. I don't think we'd survive if they closed everything else without having to. Miami and Orlando (tourism) needed to be shut down, but the rest of the state is just social distancing with no large gatherings and restaurants functioning to-go only. If they shut the restaurants down completely, they wouldn't be able to pay rent and the servers wouldn't have a job to go back to. 

The Tampa pasture that is on the news has a warrent for his arrest for hosting church last weekend. There will also be a special place in hell for him right next to the people who tried to price gouge during a global pandemic.


----------



## geekette (Mar 31, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> It depends on the area. Much of FL is rural so a statewide shut down isn't necessary. Tampa and Jacksonville aren't really hit that hard. Florida's economy already took an insane beating by closing the parks. I don't think we'd survive if they closed everything else without having to. Miami and Orlando (tourism) needed to be shut down, but the rest of the state is just social distancing with no large gatherings and restaurants functioning to-go only. If they shut the restaurants down completely, they wouldn't be able to pay rent and the servers wouldn't have a job to go back to.


Oh, so the testing in FL has been so complete from Day 1 that you are certain everyone in rural counties is staying there, uninfected?  Nobody coming in, nobody going out?  That's weird, because my state has mostly rural areas and sure enough, people are dying there, too.  But Florida shouldn't lose money, so keep people at work, serving the general public from all over the world. 

I'm surrounded by jobless people (all over the country), but they will live.  Some people continuing to do unnecessary jobs will not live.  Nor will their customers.  Please keep a running count of how many healthcare workers you lose over the next many months and then come tell me it was all worth it.  

Sorting out the job and income thing is a problem for all of us to solve later.  After we get through this with our lives.   This whole thing is going to drag out so much longer without big ole shutdown.  Other countries are past it much faster because they prioritized testing and saving lives.  They are restarting their economies.  Are you saying that America would not be able to do that ?  That there will never ever be another job for that server, if she manages to survive this?


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## Rolltydr (Mar 31, 2020)

controller1 said:


> We have two large states, Florida and Texas, erecting barriers for visitors from other states but not taking responsibility to corral their own citizens with a stay-at-home order to prevent the spread of this virus.


As to how this relates to the OP question, yes, and some more than others.


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 31, 2020)

Yes it's worth it. I want to be able to have another child. It's my right to have children. How is it fair that some 70+ year old gets to have 4 kids, but I can't have 2 because times are too tough and by the time it settles, I'm too old to bear children? 

I would gladly die at 70 and be able to have children then live to 100 and not be able to have children. What's the point of living without family? We can't move on if the economy is too messed up. Look at NYC's data. Only 11 people out of 1096 deaths were under 65 and had no underlying conditions. The at risk group can stay inside and use instacart. The rest of us need to keep the country going. It's going to drag until there's a vaccine or herd immunity. They're just not openly saying it to keep people calm. Anyone with a basic understanding of infectious disease knows you can't stomp out something this contagious and widespread unless you have a vaccine.


----------



## rapmarks (Mar 31, 2020)

The longest thread on a next Door is related to how to get a manicure with so much shut down.


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## geekette (Mar 31, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Yes it's worth it. I want to be able to have another child. It's my right to have children. How is it fair that some 70+ year old gets to have 4 kids, but I can't have 2 because times are too tough and by the time it settles, I'm too old to bear children?
> 
> I would gladly die at 70 and be able to have children then live to 100 and not be able to have children. What's the point of living without family? We can't move on if the economy is too messed up. Look at NYC's data. Only 11 people out of 1096 deaths were under 65 and had no underlying conditions. The at risk group can stay inside and use instacart. The rest of us need to keep the country going. It's going to drag until there's a vaccine or herd immunity. They're just not openly saying it to keep people calm. Anyone with a basic understanding of infectious disease knows you can't stomp out something this contagious and widespread unless you have a vaccine.


Who is stopping you from breeding?  I have managed to have a fulfilling life without having children, so you can find my life to be Pointless, but I disagree.  

So what was the deal with SARS, MERS, Zika, Ebola?


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 31, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Yes it's worth it. I want to be able to have another child. It's my right to have children. How is it fair that some 70+ year old gets to have 4 kids, but I can't have 2 because times are too tough and by the time it settles, I'm too old to bear children?


So go for it! The young don't seem too endangered by the pandemic. It's just us old Boomers that are endangered. As far as bringing offspring into an uncertain world, take heart! Adam and Eve had just been thrown out of The Garden and they jumped right into it. 

Jim


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## bluehende (Apr 1, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Yes it's worth it. I want to be able to have another child. It's my right to have children. How is it fair that some 70+ year old gets to have 4 kids, but I can't have 2 because times are too tough and by the time it settles, I'm too old to bear children?
> 
> I would gladly die at 70 and be able to have children then live to 100 and not be able to have children. What's the point of living without family? We can't move on if the economy is too messed up. Look at NYC's data. Only 11 people out of 1096 deaths were under 65 and had no underlying conditions. The at risk group can stay inside and use instacart. The rest of us need to keep the country going. It's going to drag until there's a vaccine or herd immunity. They're just not openly saying it to keep people calm. Anyone with a basic understanding of infectious disease knows you can't stomp out something this contagious and widespread unless you have a vaccine.



Yeah it's not like us old people need to go to drs, hospitals,have any work done around our house,  We will just stay here in our homes without any human contact slowly becoming golem because food is the only human need.  Or better yet just die because we are so inconvenient for those young families.  I am going to guess you are not 69.


----------



## TravelTime (Apr 1, 2020)

bluehende said:


> Yeah it's not like us old people need to go to drs, hospitals,have any work done around our house,  We will just stay here in our homes without any human contact slowly becoming golem because food is the only human need.  Or better yet just die because we are so inconvenient for those young families.  I am going to guess you are not 69.



Just out of curiosity, how old are you?


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## bluehende (Apr 1, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Just out of curiosity, how old are you?



Old enough to know that abandoning our old people is very very very selfish.

I am a few months shy of the post I responded to's limit for being of any value.

But if your asking that you need to know I do have risk factors for higher risk.  So does my wife,  DIL , son, and grand daughter.


----------



## TravelTime (Apr 1, 2020)

bluehende said:


> Old enough to know that abandoning our old people is very very very selfish.
> 
> I am a few months shy of the post I responded to's limit for being of any value.



I am assuming you are between 65 and 69 based on your reply. That is fine. I am 54. I am not that far off from the high risk group. I just wonder if TUG members are more worried bc they are closer to being high risk. Personally, I have never had much health anxiety so getting sick from coronavirus is not top of mind for me. I do worry about other people in my family but not for myself.


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## CO skier (Apr 1, 2020)

Yes, people are stupid.  Just look at this thread.


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## bbodb1 (Apr 1, 2020)

Did you mean to say:



CO skier said:


> People are strange.


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## TravelTime (Apr 1, 2020)

People who are truly intelligent do not need to insult other people.


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## davidvel (Apr 1, 2020)

rapmarks said:


> View attachment 18405


Poor math. 
1.) Three percent of those infected are not killed. More like about .5% (half a skittle)
2.) Going out doesn't mean you catch the virus (or eat a skittle).  Most who go out don't even see a skittle. 
3.) No one takes a handful as that would mean the acquisition and death rate would be enormously higher than they are. 
4.) "Going out" is not just to have a skittle, it's to work, get food, exercise, keep others from losing their jobs, stop the economy from collapsing. A far cry from having some candy.   

Silly meme directed to those who accept false narratives as fact.


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## CO skier (Apr 1, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Did you mean to say:


No, I did not mean to say "People are Strange"

I clearly said, "People are Stupid."


----------



## geekette (Apr 1, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Yes it's worth it. I want to be able to have another child. It's my right to have children. How is it fair that some 70+ year old gets to have 4 kids, but I can't have 2 because times are too tough and by the time it settles, I'm too old to bear children?
> 
> I would gladly die at 70 and be able to have children then live to 100 and not be able to have children. What's the point of living without family? We can't move on if the economy is too messed up. Look at NYC's data. Only 11 people out of 1096 deaths were under 65 and had no underlying conditions. The at risk group can stay inside and use instacart. The rest of us need to keep the country going. It's going to drag until there's a vaccine or herd immunity. They're just not openly saying it to keep people calm. Anyone with a basic understanding of infectious disease knows you can't stomp out something this contagious and widespread unless you have a vaccine.


Just a reminder, this is what the poster said was worth it:

"Please keep a running count of how many healthcare workers you lose over the next many months and then come tell me it was all worth it.   "

Perhaps those of you in healthcare, family in healthcare, would like to respond to this?


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## geekette (Apr 1, 2020)

bluehende said:


> Old enough to know that abandoning our old people is very very very selfish.
> 
> I am a few months shy of the post I responded to's limit for being of any value.
> 
> But if your asking that you need to know I do have risk factors for higher risk.  So does my wife,  DIL , son, and grand daughter.


Sending you a hug.   I don't think you or your wife are expendable.   Stay safe.  Ignore selfish idiots that don't think it's fair that you get to enjoy grandchildren.


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## x3 skier (Apr 1, 2020)

If this thread deteriorates to inter generational warfare, I recommend it be closed.

Thanks


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## bluehende (Apr 1, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am assuming you are between 65 and 69 based on your reply. That is fine. I am 54. I am not that far off from the high risk group. I just wonder if TUG members are more worried bc they are closer to being high risk. Personally, I have never had much health anxiety so getting sick from coronavirus is not top of mind for me. I do worry about other people in my family but not for myself.




I will highlight the giveaway clue instead of trying to be a smart azz

"Only 11 people out of 1096 deaths were under 65 and had no underlying conditions. The at risk group can stay inside and use instacart.  "

This was also the line that triggered me.  At this point there is no way to quantify exactly how much risk any factor is.  The thing that terrifies me is my DIL and Grand daughter have the very specific risk factor of diabetes.  There is no hard number on how much this increases their risk and that is what is so terrifying.  It certainly is not from lack of looking.  They also live in Boston one of the hotbeds right now.  And yes I would burn this earth down to keep them safe.


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 1, 2020)

All of this is just a thinning of the herd

Not all that get this will deserve it but I’m thinking many will


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## Eric B (Apr 1, 2020)

presley said:


> I still seeing people playing tennis every day.
> ....



The county I live in just closed all tennis and pickleball ball courts because they don't meet the social distancing and use of shared equipment guidelines.  I believe they're talking about the ball as being the shared equipment.  Maybe if people just stayed on opposite sides of the net and didn't use a ball it would be okay....


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## rapmarks (Apr 1, 2020)

I was sent an article last night which tries to make the point that with other virus, they are passed on when the person has symptoms, but the corona virus is passed on before any symptoms are evident .


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## Brett (Apr 1, 2020)

Eric B said:


> The county I live in just closed all tennis and pickleball ball courts because they don't meet the social distancing and use of shared equipment guidelines.  I believe they're talking about the ball as being the shared equipment.  Maybe if people just stayed on opposite sides of the net and didn't use a ball it would be okay....



yeah, that would work -  but playing without a ball .....  tennis acting !


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## SteelerGal (Apr 1, 2020)

I have to say my community, CA SIP, ppl are adhering.  Not the teens as much but it could be worse.  Now in LA, police had to break up a baby shower/block party.  
I am lucky I can work remotely and our office is closed until end of the month.


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## Eric B (Apr 1, 2020)

Brett said:


> yeah, that would work -  but playing without a ball .....  tennis acting !



Acting if you make a "pop" noise every time you swing the racket.  Otherwise, it's miming....


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## VegasBella (Apr 1, 2020)

Eric B said:


> The county I live in just closed all tennis and pickleball ball courts because they don't meet the social distancing and use of shared equipment guidelines.  I believe they're talking about the ball as being the shared equipment.  Maybe if people just stayed on opposite sides of the net and didn't use a ball it would be okay....


Same here. They closed tennis courts and I was surprised because I felt that tennis was low-risk.
They took the basketball hoops off the boards to prevent basketball! But then, unintended consequence was that since the tennis court was locked up and the basketball court had no hoops so no one playing basketball, tennis players went over to the basketball court and played there without a net.
UGH.

Our city is trying really hard to help people have outdoor time at the parks while staying 6 feet or more away from each other, but it just keeps getting complicated. They closed down the playgrounds and wrapped them all up with caution tape. Well, then people tore the caution tape down. One guy was walking around the park with a knife cutting all the caution tape! So then yesterday I saw that they had cops or police video cameras set up at all the parks. They're monitoring the public.

The city has been criticized for allowing people to use the parks and they respond by explaining that outdoor time is necessary for physical and mental health. I agree. Nevada has really high rates of suicide. Plus there is domestic violence and gun violence. Those things are all exacerbated by  quarantine. Making people stay home is good to prevent Covid19 but really bad for a lot of other public health issues.

It's all getting really weird.
I'm still taking my dog out for walks. I stay far away from anyone and I wear a mask when I go out. I wipe down my dogs' paws before bringing them back in and I don't let them socialize with other dogs. I spray down my shoes outside before coming in too, and then I wash my hands and change my clothes. I'm avoiding ALL indoor public spaces as much as possible - for instance I'm doing zero grocery shopping that isn't delivery or pickup.


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## PigsDad (Apr 1, 2020)

VegasBella said:


> They closed tennis courts and I was surprised because I felt that tennis was low-risk.


Any activity where you are touching the same object (i.e. tennis ball) with others is definitely not low risk.  

Kurt


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## dioxide45 (Apr 1, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Any activity where you are touching the same object (i.e. tennis ball) with others is definitely not low risk.
> 
> Kurt


Especially when one is sweating, wiping their face, etc.


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## dayooper (Apr 1, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Especially when one is sweating, wiping their face, etc.



 I was on my Zoom meeting with my class today and caught myself touching my face countless times. Actually seeing your self touch your face makes you realize how often we do it and how hard it is to stop.


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## Talent312 (Apr 1, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Any activity where you are touching the same object (i.e. tennis ball) with others is definitely not low risk.



What if each player brought and only played with their own balls?
Like in golf, the'd have to go get 'em.  ... (_double entendre not intended)

._


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## CanuckTravlr (Apr 1, 2020)

My simple answer to the OP's original question, "are people stupid?" is, unfortunately for many of them:  "Yup!"

We can call them oblivious.  We can call them self-entitled.  We can call them uninformed.  But stupid basically covers it all.


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## Rolltydr (Apr 1, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> What if each player brought and only played with their own balls?
> Like in golf, the'd have to go get 'em. ... (_double entendre not intended)
> 
> ._



Maybe not intended, but humorous nonetheless! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## caribbeanqueen (Apr 2, 2020)

Most people are getting the virus through touching or very close proximity to someone with the virus. As for touching a surface someone with covid has touched, there is no data yet on anyone contracting the virus through this method. This is not say not to bother to keep surfaces clean, just what I have read and heard from multiple doctors.
Most people who contract the virus do not need hospital visits or hospitalization.  Those who come to the hospital, most are able to leave. Most who are admitted recover and leave. Are there a small percentage who do not? Yes.  
If you take care of yourself, use the distancing of 6 feet when you go out and wash your hands frequently your risk will be very low.  You cannot control everyone else.
People with autoimmune disease, cancer, diabetes and other such issues have every right to be frightened.  I do agree, in essence, that these individuals should stay at home more often and send another loved one out only because this makes more sense to do everything possible to not be in contact with others. Having said that, I also feel they should be able to get out for some fresh air.  

I saw a story on a couple who are police officers in NYC. They have their children staying with the grandparents to keep them safe from possibly contracting Covid through their parents. That must be extremely difficult but they are doing what they have to to keep their loved ones safe.
I am not sure what having a baby has to do with the elderly and sick not going out?  Every life matters. Every. Single. One. 

In my development in Florida ( my vacation home in Island Walk in Venice), they have shut everything down. The pool, the gym, tennis, pickle ball, bocce, all meetings. They did so weeks ago in order to keep the people safe. Some were upset.  It is for their own protection and short lived (relatively speaking).  
Back home here in the NE people are freaking out and calling police if they see anyone with a NY license plate because technically they are supposed to be self quarantining for two weeks. Many fled here to their summer homes once  it was revealed how many were contracting the disease and that it was a hot spot.  One poor college girl was yelled at in a grocery store parking lot and the police had to be called. She had been here since September but having NY plates sent people into a tizzy. 

People are going overboard and really losing their sh**.   
Remember this, MOST people live. The numbers are skewed because there are so many who have it or have had it and were not tested or did not know. Again, I am not saying those who pass are not worth caring about,  it is an absolute tragedy for anyone to die from this, just trying to put it into perspective.
I worked in a hospital and cardiologists offices for years and have spoken to several doctors I worked with, one in the emergency room. I talk with many nurses now working on the front lines. Yes this is scary but know they are coming up with many different modalities to treat this virus.
Hope everyone is safe and doing their best through this. Kindness costs nothing.


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## TravelTime (Apr 3, 2020)

caribbeanqueen said:


> Most people are getting the virus through touching or very close proximity to someone with the virus. As for touching a surface someone with covid has touched, there is no data yet on anyone contracting the virus through this method. This is not say not to bother to keep surfaces clean, just what I have read and heard from multiple doctors.
> Most people who contract the virus do not need hospital visits or hospitalization.  Those who come to the hospital, most are able to leave. Most who are admitted recover and leave. Are there a small percentage who do not? Yes.
> If you take care of yourself, use the distancing of 6 feet when you go out and wash your hands frequently your risk will be very low.  You cannot control everyone else.
> People with autoimmune disease, cancer, diabetes and other such issues have every right to be frightened.  I do agree, in essence, that these individuals should stay at home more often and send another loved one out only because this makes more sense to do everything possible to not be in contact with others. Having said that, I also feel they should be able to get out for some fresh air.
> ...



This is a great reality check. I wish I could have written something like this on the thread I started regarding whether people are over reacting to coronavirus. It was taken to mean I do not care about life. But no, I think like you do. This is a very dangerous virus but most of us will survive. I feel deeply sorry and sad for those who will pass and their family members. I would not wish that on anyone and I take every life seriously. If one of my family members dies from Covid-19, I would be very upset and would not easily dismiss it. But you are right: People are going overboard and losing their sh**. There is a global panic over coronavirus. The CDC is throwing darts at the dartboard with blindfolds on and hoping they hit the bullseye. No one knows what works and no one wants to be responsible so they are telling us to do every possible things to prevent virus transmission without prioritization or scientific evidence. It is a crazy time. It has made me realize that we are all vulnerable and unsafe. Life can change in a minute. So let’s live in the moment and be grateful for what we do have. Let’s show love to our family and friends and help others in need. We do not know what tomorrow holds.


----------



## pedro47 (Apr 3, 2020)

I liked this website because Tuggers enjoy sharing advice and information.

Please be safe and practice social distancing.

I am praying my Commander in Chief will fix me breakfast.  LOL


----------



## bluehende (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> This is a great reality check. I wish I could have written something like this on the thread I started regarding whether people are over reacting to coronavirus. *It was taken to mean I do not care about life.* But no, I think like you do. This is a very dangerous virus but most of us will survive. I feel deeply sorry and sad for those who will pass and their family members. I would not wish that on anyone and I take every life seriously. If one of my family members dies from Covid-19, I would be very upset and would not easily dismiss it. But you are right: People are going overboard and losing their sh**. There is a global panic over coronavirus. The CDC is throwing darts at the dartboard with blindfolds on and hoping they hit the bullseye. No one knows what works and no one wants to be responsible so they are telling us to do every possible things to prevent virus transmission without prioritization or scientific evidence. It is a crazy time. It has made me realize that we are all vulnerable and unsafe. Life can change in a minute. So let’s live in the moment and be grateful for what we do have. Let’s show love to our family and friends and help others in need. We do not know what tomorrow holds.



I am the one discussing/arguing with you on that thread.  I want to assure you that in no way have I ever had a single thought that you did not have the utmost respect for human life.  If I gave you the impression I thought that I sincerely apologize.  To reassure you I thought the topic was one not only to discuss but a real issue that we will be grappling with in the near future and the answer to that question you asked is by no means settled.  I hope you accept my apology and we can continue to debate where in that broad middle we should be.


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## A.Win (Apr 3, 2020)

To play devil's advocate, has it occurred to you that the "stupid", reckless people may be correct?
We are clearly in a very bad position, so we need to pick which option is less damaging for most people.

No sheltering (like Mexico or Sweden) - 1% of the world dies.
Strict SIP for many months - 1% die from violence. 1% die from starvation. More child abuse, domestic disputes, alcoholism, crime, drug usage, depression, etc. etc.

Maybe the first option is better?


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## Braindead (Apr 3, 2020)

I think May 1st will be the end of all restrictions. The closer May 1 gets the bigger the push will be to open everything up.
The weather will be warming up & the guidelines will be to cover your face—washing your hands numerous times a day.


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## A.Win (Apr 3, 2020)

Virginia has a stay at home order until June 10. I doubt that we will return to normal by May 1. I believe a vaccine is our best hope and most predict that will be MANY months away. 

Would you want to return to work or eat at a restaurant if the virus is still out there?


----------



## WVBaker (Apr 3, 2020)

*The city of Laredo in Texas is now requiring all residents to wear a mask any time they enter a building that is not their home, or face up to a $1,000 fine.*








						Texas city moves to fine people who don't cover their faces outside to protect against coronavirus
					

The city of Laredo in Texas is now requiring all residents to wear a mask any time they enter a building that is not their home, or face up to a $1,000 fine.




					www.foxnews.com
				




*Kentucky judges order coronavirus patients, others to wear GPS ankle monitors for refusing to stay home*








						Kentucky judges order coronavirus patients, others to wear GPS ankle monitors for refusing to stay home
					

At least four people in Kentucky have been ordered by judges to wear GPS ankle monitors for allegedly defying health officials’ advice to stay home amid the coronavirus outbreak, according to reports.




					www.foxnews.com
				




*New Jersey governor says people should practice social distancing with 'other family members' at home*








						New Jersey governor says people should practice social distancing with 'other family members' at home
					

New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy is suggesting that people should take social distancing to the next level by staying away from family members, even inside their own homes.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## WVBaker (Apr 3, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> I liked this website because Tuggers enjoy sharing advice and information.
> 
> Please be safe and practice social distancing.
> 
> I am praying my Commander in Chief will fix me breakfast.  LOL



A man who understands the chain of command.


----------



## Braindead (Apr 3, 2020)

A.Win said:


> Virginia has a stay at home order until June 10. I doubt that we will return to normal by May 1. I believe a vaccine is our best hope and most predict that will be MANY months away.
> 
> Would you want to return to work or eat at a restaurant if the virus is still out there?


I’m not saying it’s right or wrong to lift the restrictions May 1st. Simply my opinion, I don’t mean this as a Political statement as I think Governors & Mayors of both Parties will be itching-wanting to open everything up if possible at all.

Everyone will have to make their own decision on when they feel safe to actually sit & eat in a restaurant.

The restriction in place- it will be mandatory to cover your face, if you call that a restriction or law


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## Braindead (Apr 3, 2020)

If a vaccine is actually a year or more away, there’s no way we’re shutting the country down for a year or more.


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## DaveNV (Apr 3, 2020)

I think the point people are ignoring here is that the caseload in the USA is doubling EVERY THREE DAYS.  It's easy to throw around statistics that some will die, or to minimize that it's a minor percentage of the population.  The larger question is:  Are YOU willing to be one of them? What about your spouse, parents, or kids?  I know I'm not, and I will do what I can to protect my loved ones.  Staying safe at home, and minimizing exposure, will reduce the odds you will become a statistic.  That's the best any of us can do.

I'm not foolish enough to presume my household won't be affected by this - we already are, financially, if nothing else.  But while we can, and by whatever means we can, I will do everything possible to reduce our risk.  A vaccine will be a long ways off. My hope is that those who have recovered from this will have an immunity to it, and won't spread it to others. As more people recover, the risk of catching it is reduced. I want to give this virus time to calm down.

Wishing everyone a safe and healthy home.

Dave


----------



## Braindead (Apr 3, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> I think the point people are ignoring here is that the caseload in the USA is doubling EVERY THREE DAYS.  It's easy to throw around statistics that some will die, or to minimize that it's a minor percentage of the population.  The larger question is:  Are YOU willing to be one of them? What about your spouse, parents, or kids?  I know I'm not, and I will do what I can to protect my loved ones.  Staying safe at home, and minimizing exposure, will reduce the odds you will become a statistic.  That's the best any of us can do.
> 
> I'm not foolish enough to presume my household won't be affected by this - we already are, financially, if nothing else.  But while we can, and by whatever means we can, I will do everything possible to reduce our risk.  A vaccine will be a long ways off. My hope is that those who have recovered from this will have an immunity to it, and won't spread it to others. As more people recover, the risk of catching it is reduced. I want to give this virus time to calm down.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you stated!! At some point it does become a balancing act for mental health also not just financially-economy

There is another health crises waiting to raise its ugly head if the shut down goes on for too long.
The Covid-19 Crises is going to claim a lot of peoples lives that never had the Virus.

Every loss of life is a tragedy!!

Stay safe everyone !!!


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## Ken555 (Apr 3, 2020)

Braindead said:


> I think May 1st will be the end of all restrictions. The closer May 1 gets the bigger the push will be to open everything up.
> The weather will be warming up & the guidelines will be to cover your face—washing your hands numerous times a day.



We won’t reach the apex until end of April in California, and it’s a similar timeline in other regions while still others are in May (especially those who stupidly didn’t trust science and delayed...Florida and Georgia, I’m looking at you). Why would we remove “all restrictions” by May 1st just because it’s no longer expanding exponentially...but continuing to spread? I can see a lessening of restrictions amongst certain industries, but “all restrictions”? Sorry, that’s just nuts.


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## caribbeanqueen (Apr 3, 2020)

Braindead said:


> I agree with everything you stated!! At some point it does become a balancing act for mental health also not just financially-economy
> 
> There is another health crises waiting to raise its ugly head if the shut down goes on for too long.
> The Covid-19 Crises is going to claim a lot of peoples lives that never had the Virus.
> ...



Braindead you bring up a very good point not many are thinking about.
We already had one young man hang himself because he believed he had the virus. Mental health patients are multiplying. Trust me you have hit on an issue that is absolutely going to be very trying for the medical field when their ER beds will be over filed with Covid patients and the mental health people still need medical attention.
Before this virus reared it's ugly head, ER's across the country were filled every day with many mental health patients.  You would be amazed how many take up beds in the ERs across the nation.  I just retired this past fall and my hospital is a small 100 bed hospital. We had several beds every single day taken by mental health patients. Some were violent due to their not being with it (in reality), some are suicidal, some are not taking their meds, etc.
I hope towns and cities are preparing for this as it will be an issue. As this continues to go on longer and longer you will also see normal everyday people become despondent due to job loss along with money issues, heightened stress and conflict within the family.   It is going to be a very bad siituation.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 3, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> We won’t reach the apex until end of April in California, and it’s a similar timeline in other regions while still others are in May (especially those who stupidly didn’t trust science and delayed...Florida and Georgia, I’m looking at you). Why would we remove “all restrictions” by May 1st just because it’s no longer expanding exponentially...but continuing to spread? I can see a lessening of restrictions amongst certain industries, but “all restrictions”? Sorry, that’s just nuts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Let’s not forget about managing the rebound effect as clean populations are contaminated through community spread as compliancy wanes - before herd immunity develops and/or vaccines are available.
No time soon...

This is important to us because our elderly MIL, that we are now caring for, will be a severe risk for infection likely for months to come.


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## Ken555 (Apr 3, 2020)

DavidnRobin said:


> Let’s not forget about managing the rebound effect as clean populations are contaminated through community spread as compliancy wanes - before herd immunity develops and/or vaccines are available.
> No time soon...
> 
> This is important to us because our elderly MIL, that we are now caring for, will be a severe risk for infection likely for months to come.
> ...



Exactly. The only way to assure you don’t catch this is to stay home, restrict access to only those who live there, and don’t leave. The excuses for leaving are just absurd. Sure, we are going to have lots of issues in future - economic, mental health, etc. That’s a given, and many of us recognized that in Feb! But, my opinion is that we should do absolutely everything possible to make sure as many people survive first...and then we will deal with ramifications. Our country is already on an Italy path when we had MONTHS notice and did almost nothing, and that same attitude will simply extend this and make it much more painful if we end SAH too early. Trust the scientists and ignore the politicians (all of them, I don’t care who they are).


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## TravelTime (Apr 3, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> Exactly. The only way to assure you don’t catch this is to stay home, restrict access to only those who live there, and don’t leave. The excuses for leaving are just absurd. Sure, we are going to have lots of issues in future - economic, mental health, etc. That’s a given, and many of us recognized that in Feb! But, my opinion is that we should do absolutely everything possible to make sure as many people survive first...and then we will deal with ramifications. Our country is already on an Italy path when we had MONTHS notice and did almost nothing, and that same attitude will simply extend this and make it much more painful if we end SAH too early. Trust the scientists and ignore the politicians (all of them, I don’t care who they are).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I agree with you that the only way to completely 100% prevent getting sick is to stay at home and stay away from other people. A full quarantine. My question is how long should we do this? As soon as we come out, people will get sick. The argument for SIP/SAH is to slow down the spread of the virus not to eliminate it. How are we going to prevent illness and death until next year when maybe there is a vaccine or treatment, if we are very lucky. Should we all stay home until then?

There are ways to keep yourself safe when we do go out but I won't get into that here. I have mentioned them on other posts.


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## Ken555 (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I agree with you that the only way to completely prevent getting sick is to stay at home and stay away from other people. My question is how long should we do this? As soon as we come out, people will get sick. The argument for SIP/SAH is to slow down the spread of the virus not to eliminate it. How are we going to prevent illness and death until next year when maybe there is a vaccine or treatment, if we are very lucky. Should we all stay home until then?



Lives first. If that means staying home for an extended period, then that’s what it means. 

What possible excuse can you have to end this early? Why risk others lives for a walk to the park, or shopping for two items, or going to a movie? Once we pass this initial apex, we have to do everything possible to keep it low and prevent outbreaks. We must reduce the demand on our medical system so that they may resume helping those who need it for non-C19 reasons. If we go out, and others do the same, then it’s likely this will just happen again. In fact, I have no doubt that will happen in many areas anyway, but I see no valid reason to risk your life and those around you by leaving home for anything other than a critical reason.

I simply don’t understand why this is so difficult for some to comprehend. It’s going to be tough, and I’m sympathetic. It’s impacting everyone. Those of us on TUG are fortunate to have homes, and other than critical trips I just don’t see the reason to end this before we have a solution.

At this point I’m planning on staying home for months at minimum, subject to unexpected positive news. 


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 3, 2020)

Remember that saying about having our health over wealth. 
Well... here we are.







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## jeffox (Apr 3, 2020)

Braindead said:


> There is another health crises waiting to raise its ugly head if the shut down goes on for too long.
> The Covid-19 Crises is going to claim a lot of peoples lives that never had the Virus.



People without the virus are already dieing due to hospitals being over run with Covid patients. they aren't able to handle the heart attacks, liver failures, OD's, accidents, etc.. So more people getting infected at the same time will help this how?


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## MrockStar (Apr 3, 2020)

A.Win said:


> Virginia has a stay at home order until June 10. I doubt that we will return to normal by May 1. I believe a vaccine is our best hope and most predict that will be MANY months away.
> 
> Would you want to return to work or eat at a restaurant if the virus is still out there?


Already still working essential worker at a 500,000 square Ft prossing/distribution facility 100's of workers here. Practicing social distance, hand washing. Still heathy thank God , some coworkers off 2weeks now. We will see how it all turns out !!??


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## TravelTime (Apr 3, 2020)

I don’t think people are being any more stupid about coronavirus than they are about getting any other disease or taking other risks. One of the worst things for health is unhealthy eating and obesity. It is correlated with many diseases like heart problems, diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure and others. Yet people keep overeating and eating junk food. My dad is an example. He has diabetes but is not overweight. But he keeps eating sweets and says what is the point of life if he can‘t eat sweets. He would rather eat sweets than live longer. That is really stupid IMO. I hate the word “stupid” but I am using it because this is the name of the thread. He thinks I am stupid and he says I do not enjoy life because I am careful with what I eat. I tell him the food is not at the center of my universe and there are other ways to enjoy life than overeating or eating sweets and junk food. My dad says the only time his glucose numbers are normal is when he visits me in California. For him, “normal” is still over 100. He still eats sweets at my home but probably less than when he is in Florida.

BTW, people with all of these preventable diseases are more at risk of dying from Covid-19. It’s a double whammy. Eat poorly, get a chronic disease, your immune systems weakens as a result, then Covid-19 comes along And now you are at higher risk of dying from Covid-19. Maybe Covid-19 will kill off all the stupid people. Maybe that is the meaning of this thread. The smart ones will stay at home and take care of themselves to reduce risk factors. At least my father is staying home. He is worried about getting Covid-19 due to his diabetes, and rightly so. But I bet he is still eating sweets!


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## VacationForever (Apr 3, 2020)

jeffox said:


> People without the virus are already dieing due to hospitals being over run with Covid patients. they aren't able to handle the heart attacks, liver failures, OD's, accidents, etc.. So more people getting infected at the same time will help this how?


That is what our PCP said too.  He said to try not to get a stroke or a heart attack, they won't have any ventilators for these folks.


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## TravelTime (Apr 3, 2020)

I think it is really unfair that the government is offering financial assistance for people who get Covid-19 but not for other diseases. Covid-19 is being prioritized above everything else. Really not fair at all.


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## JanT (Apr 3, 2020)

To answer the original question.....yes, yes they are.  I can't even believe this woman.  This isn't like she had just come back from a trip somewhere.  She was actually out covering an area that was a "hot spot" and then throws her 90 year old mom a birthday party??  WTH???  Stupid beyond stupid.









						Journalist says she unknowingly infected others with coronavirus at her mom's 90th birthday party. Two died
					

Journalist Alice Stockton-Rossini hosted a 90th birthday for her mother last month in New Jersey. At the time, the radio host said, she had no idea she'd been infected with coronavirus while covering an outbreak in New Rochelle, New York.




					www.cnn.com


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## Rolltydr (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I think it is really unfair that the government is offering financial assistance for people who get Covid-19 but not for other diseases. Covid-19 is being prioritized above everything else. Really not fair at all.



I think I see your tongue planted firmly in your cheek. But, just in case, the government is offering financial assistance to many large businesses and small business owners who may not have covid-19. They may still lose their businesses because of covid-19. But, is it fair for them to get assistance but not someone who loses a business for any other reason?


Harry


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## TravelTime (Apr 3, 2020)

Rolltydr said:


> I think I see your tongue planted firmly in your cheek. But, just in case, the government is offering financial assistance to many large businesses and small business owners who may not have covid-19. They may still lose their businesses because of covid-19. But, is it fair for them to get assistance but not someone who loses a business for any other reason?
> 
> 
> Harry



I am not talking about businesses. I am talking about waiving co-pays and offering financial benefits for uninsured people with coronavirus. This is not offered for people with other diseases. I think when this is all over, the government might decide the universal health care is needed. At least one party will lobby for it hard using coronavirus as an example of what happens when people do not have health insurance.


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## Rolltydr (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am not talking about businesses. I am talking about waiving co-pays and offering financial benefits for uninsured people with coronavirus. This is not offered for people with other diseases. I think when this is all over, the government might decide the universal health care is needed. At least one party will lobby for it hard using coronavirus as an example of what happens when people do not have health insurance.



And they will have a very good argument.

I know you were talking about individuals, but the money in the stimulus bill is also for businesses so I was trying to make a correlation. Apparently, I failed.


Harry


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## VacationForever (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I think it is really unfair that the government is offering financial assistance for people who get Covid-19 but not for other diseases. Covid-19 is being prioritized above everything else. Really not fair at all.


It is fair because of the huge number of individuals who have lost their jobs or furloughed and we don't want any of them in the streets or unable to get treatment.  We as a nation is in crisis.  In normal times if I lose my job I can find another job.


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## bluehende (Apr 3, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I am not talking about businesses. I am talking about waiving co-pays and offering financial benefits for uninsured people with coronavirus. This is not offered for people with other diseases. I think when this is all over, the government might decide the universal health care is needed. At least one party will lobby for it hard using coronavirus as an example of what happens when people do not have health insurance.




I think they are doing this to ensure those infected get treatment.  It is a health concern if for financial reasons the sick do not.   Unfortunately many that are still working are paid little and have to make the decision to get treatment and risk 2 week quarantine based on financial reasons.


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## Braindead (Apr 4, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> We won’t reach the apex until end of April in California, and it’s a similar timeline in other regions while still others are in May (especially those who stupidly didn’t trust science and delayed...Florida and Georgia, I’m looking at you). Why would we remove “all restrictions” by May 1st just because it’s no longer expanding exponentially...but continuing to spread? I can see a lessening of restrictions amongst certain industries, but “all restrictions”? Sorry, that’s just nuts.





DavidnRobin said:


> Remember that saying about having our health over wealth.
> Well... here we are.
> 
> 
> ...


There are several things happening that are silly-nuts-stupid.
1. Leaving restaurants open at all. That encourages non essential social interaction. Interaction that wouldn’t take place.
2. Why can Target, Walmart etc sell more than groceries. I’ve seen people looking at cards, a ton of non essential touching of items others will touch.
3. Calling all construction essential. Why can’t a house wait an extra 30 days to close. New Stadium for the Raiders is full speed ahead, essential??

Whether a state is on lockdown or not, this has been a half hearted effort by all states by still allowing a ton of non essential social interaction.
This crises will go on longer & more people will lose their lives than necessary due to the lack of a meaningful LOCKDOWN !! 
The economy is being hit worse than if we had a 30 day strict lockdown. 
Again not political, red & blue states do not have a hard lockdown in place for the real ESSENTIALS that we all need!!


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2020)

Braindead said:


> 1. Leaving restaurants open at all. That encourages non essential social interaction. Interaction that wouldn’t take place.


I think this is to allow restaurants to possibly still earn money while considering and mitigating the risks. If one goes outside for anything, there is a chance that social interaction will take place. I see more social interaction in the grocery store checkout line than just about anywhere else. I don't need a chatty Cathy (apologies to anyone named Cathy) chatting it up with the store clerk in front of me at checkout. Any time the mouth opens, there is chance droplets transfer to a surface and transfer to my food packaging. Should we shut down grocery stores because social interaction can take place?


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## TravelTime (Apr 4, 2020)

Yesterday I had to go out for a medical procedure. I would have never known we had a SIP order. The traffic was the same and parking lots were full.


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## Braindead (Apr 4, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I think this is to allow restaurants to possibly still earn money while considering and mitigating the risks. If one goes outside for anything, there is a chance that social interaction will take place. I see more social interaction in the grocery store checkout line than just about anywhere else. I don't need a chatty Cathy (apologies to anyone named Cathy) chatting it up with the store clerk in front of me at checkout. Any time the mouth opens, there is chance droplets transfer to a surface and transfer to my food packaging. Should we shut down grocery stores because social interaction can take place?


I guess you think it’s ok for the government to pick which jobs-businessess try to survive.
No restaurant is an essential source of food, grocery stores are an essential source of food. I thought we could all agree on that, maybe not?
Lockdown means eliminating all social interaction possible, we all have to have groceries but we could all do without that take out order. No?
People can go to the grocery store ounce a week or less often, those that order take out may do so numerous times a week & would still need groceries.
No matter how you look at leaving restaurants open it leads & encourages a lot of non essential social interaction


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## dioxide45 (Apr 4, 2020)

Braindead said:


> I guess you think it’s ok for the government to pick which jobs-businessess try to survive.
> No restaurant is an essential source of food, grocery stores are an essential source of food. I thought we could all agree on that, maybe not?
> Lockdown means eliminating all social interaction possible, we all have to have groceries but we could all do without that take out order. No?


It was pointed out to me in another thread that someone has to pick which business get to survive, and it apparently is the government, so I will leave that at that. At another time it was mentioned that some people don't cook and rely on restaurants for food. I am not one of them and I would think most people could get by eating canned food that only needs heating on a stove top or microwave, but what do I know.


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## TravelTime (Apr 4, 2020)

Here’s a reason why Germany says they have a lower death rate than other countries:

“Maybe our biggest strength in Germany,” said Professor Kräusslich, “is the rational decision-making at the highest level of government combined with the trust the government enjoys in the population.”


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## x3 skier (Apr 4, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Here’s a reason why Germany says they have a lower death rate than other countries:
> 
> “Maybe our biggest strength in Germany,” said Professor Kräusslich, “is the rational decision-making at the highest level of government combined with the trust the government enjoys in the population.”



I will only note additionally the German population following orders is a national trait.

This also may be a reason.


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## davidvel (Apr 4, 2020)

DaveNW said:


> I think the point people are ignoring here is that the caseload in the USA is doubling EVERY THREE DAYS.  It's easy to throw around statistics that some will die, or to minimize that it's a minor percentage of the population.  The larger question is:  Are YOU willing to be one of them? What about your spouse, parents, or kids?  I know I'm not, and I will do what I can to protect my loved ones.  Staying safe at home, and minimizing exposure, will reduce the odds you will become a statistic.  That's the best any of us can do.
> 
> I'm not foolish enough to presume my household won't be affected by this - we already are, financially, if nothing else.  But while we can, and by whatever means we can, I will do everything possible to reduce our risk.  A vaccine will be a long ways off. My hope is that those who have recovered from this will have an immunity to it, and won't spread it to others. As more people recover, the risk of catching it is reduced. I want to give this virus time to calm down.
> 
> ...


YOU were willing to die when you went out before this all started.


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 4, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I don’t think people are being any more stupid about coronavirus than they are about getting any other disease or taking other risks. One of the worst things for health is unhealthy eating and obesity. It is correlated with many diseases like heart problems, diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure and others. Yet people keep overeating and eating junk food. My dad is an example. He has diabetes but is not overweight. But he keeps eating sweets and says what is the point of life if he can‘t eat sweets. He would rather eat sweets than live longer. That is really stupid IMO. I hate the word “stupid” but I am using it because this is the name of the thread. He thinks I am stupid and he says I do not enjoy life because I am careful with what I eat. I tell him the food is not at the center of my universe and there are other ways to enjoy life than overeating or eating sweets and junk food. My dad says the only time his glucose numbers are normal is when he visits me in California. For him, “normal” is still over 100. He still eats sweets at my home but probably less than when he is in Florida.
> 
> BTW, people with all of these preventable diseases are more at risk of dying from Covid-19. It’s a double whammy. Eat poorly, get a chronic disease, your immune systems weakens as a result, then Covid-19 comes along And now you are at higher risk of dying from Covid-19. Maybe Covid-19 will kill off all the stupid people. Maybe that is the meaning of this thread. The smart ones will stay at home and take care of themselves to reduce risk factors. At least my father is staying home. He is worried about getting Covid-19 due to his diabetes, and rightly so. But I bet he is still eating sweets!



Except the level of stupidity of someone eating  an entire box of donuts in front of me has zero effect on me
Now running around and possibly spreading a deadly virus does
So. Is that stupidity or carelessness?
Maybe both
And I believe it surpasses the donut eating level of stupidity


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## TravelTime (Apr 4, 2020)

Gypsy65 said:


> Except the level of stupidity of someone eating  an entire box of donuts in front of me has zero effect on me
> Now running around and possibly spreading a deadly virus does
> So. Is that stupidity or carelessness?
> Maybe both



So a better analogy would be a smoker and secondhand smoke or drinking and driving. Very stupid and irresponsible.


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## presley (Apr 5, 2020)

Just want to report that, Yes, people are stupid.

Today, on my dog walk, I saw some "adults" (looked between 35-45) having a spitting contest across the street from each other. It was a man on one side of the street and a couple on the other side. They were all laughing and trying to spit at each other from across the street. I had to change my route to avoid these people. As I got back on that street (after a series of roundabouts), I saw the single man ahead of me again, only this time he was chatting with another guy who was walking his dogs. They weren't social distancing and the dogs were jumping around and barking and the 2 men were laughing and not trying to get out of each other's personal space at all. I was starting to get pretty angry and I had to reroute yet again.

Last Sunday, my husband and I parked by a park to enjoy the scenery while we had lattes and hot fudge sundaes from McDonalds in an attempt to recreate what the afternoon would be like if we were on a Disney Cruise. I got really grossed out by the stuff I saw, which I won't go into too much other than to say I saw 2 different families going to the closed playground and both times, the 2 different dads hocked loogies in the grass. Between that and what happened today, I have concluded that Sundays are the days that all the gross spitting people are out in public.


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## TravelTime (Apr 5, 2020)

presley said:


> Just want to report that, Yes, people are stupid.
> 
> Today, on my dog walk, I saw some "adults" (looked between 35-45) having a spitting contest across the street from each other. It was a man on one side of the street and a couple on the other side. They were all laughing and trying to spit at each other from across the street. I had to change my route to avoid these people. As I got back on that street (after a series of roundabouts), I saw the single man ahead of me again, only this time he was chatting with another guy who was walking his dogs. They weren't social distancing and the dogs were jumping around and barking and the 2 men were laughing and not trying to get out of each other's personal space at all. I was starting to get pretty angry and I had to reroute yet again.
> 
> Last Sunday, my husband and I parked by a park to enjoy the scenery while we had lattes and hot fudge sundaes from McDonalds in an attempt to recreate what the afternoon would be like if we were on a Disney Cruise. I got really grossed out by the stuff I saw, which I won't go into too much other than to say I saw 2 different families going to the closed playground and both times, the 2 different dads hocked loogies in the grass. Between that and what happened today, I have concluded that Sundays are the days that all the gross spitting people are out in public.



The spitting contest is really disgusting and not safe at all. Wow, I can’t believe anyone would find this fun.

Is McDonald’s still open? I would not have guessed they are considered an essential service. I guess hamburgers are an essential service for kids. I assume only the drive through is open. How are they keeping their employees and customers safe? How are they handing out food to people while maintaining social distance and not touching the bags?


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## TravelTime (Apr 5, 2020)

Hey, I have a positive reframe for this thread. Maybe the people we are seeing outside who are not following the social distancing guidelines are the exceptions to the rule. I just heard on the news that 90% of people are staying home and following guidelines. So maybe people are smart and the stupid people are exceptions?

I personally do not know anyone who is not following the stay at home guidelines. Everyone in my family and friends circle is sheltering in place and being ultra careful the very few times they need to go out for food. On my Facebook threads, everyone is staying home and encouraging others to stay at home too. Everyone in my profession that I know has closed their offices. Here on TUG, it sounds like most everyone is sheltering in place too. Maybe I just have a smart circle of family and friends!

When I went to the doctor on Friday for an essential medical procedure, I did see many cars on the road as well as full parking lots. But that doesn’t mean that people are not following the shelter in place guidelines and social distancing. I have not been to a store in weeks, so I do not know much about how people are shopping and behaving in stores. When we do need food, my DH goes to the small market near our house to avoid crowds. The store is being very safe with plastic guards for the cashiers and tape on the floor to keep people 6’ apart in line. This particular store never has many people, even in normal times. It feels a lot safer than Safeway or Target.


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## VacationForever (Apr 5, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> The spitting contest is really disgusting and not safe at all. Wow, I can’t believe anyone would find this fun.
> 
> Is McDonald’s still open? I would not have guessed they are considered an essential service. I guess hamburgers are an essential service for kids. I assume only the drive through is open. How are they keeping their employees and customers safe? How are they handing out food to people while maintaining social distance and not touching the bags?


No different from curbside pickup of food from sitdown restaurants.


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## TravelTime (Apr 5, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> No different from curbside pickup of food from sitdown restaurants.



I was wondering if they are still using the take out windows. With those windows, you get pretty close to the attendant. I thought take out from sit down restaurants was putting the food in your trunk? I have not ordered any prepared food at all so I am not familiar with how it works, just with what I have read.


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## VacationForever (Apr 5, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I was wondering if they are still using the take out windows. With those windows, you get pretty close to the attendant. I thought take out from sit down restaurants was putting the food in your trunk? I have not ordered any prepared food at all so I am not familiar with how it works, just with what I have read.


Dunno.  I haven't done either of them.  Neither have I gone to any store for the past 4 weeks or more.


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## Talent312 (Apr 5, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I was wondering if they are still using the take out windows. With those windows, you get pretty close to the attendant...



McD's drive-thru (and others) work just like always...
You hand over your CC or $$, and they hand you a bag of cold food.
Today: Quarter Pounders. Yesterday: Beef 'n Cheddars (Arby's).


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## geekette (Apr 5, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> McD's drive-thru (and others) work just like always...
> You hand over your CC or $$, and they hand you a bag of cold food,
> Today: Quarter Pounders. Yesterday: Beef 'n Cheddars (Arby's).


yeah, same as always.  I never considered a drive through window to be "close".  

My brother is a truck driver and has had to knock on drive thru windows because the rig won't fit.  So far, they accomodate, kindly, and thank him for his work.  

I haven't been out to buy food since this stuff began but need to restock groceries.  Hoping nobody around on a Monday afternoon.  It's time for me to mask up and brave it.  

I am not sure how many drive throughs are open, I'll keep an eye out because now I am curious.


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## geekette (Apr 5, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I was wondering if they are still using the take out windows. With those windows, you get pretty close to the attendant. I thought take out from sit down restaurants was putting the food in your trunk? I have not ordered any prepared food at all so I am not familiar with how it works, just with what I have read.


Pick up food is going to depend. I don't have a trunk so that's not going to happen.  From ads in my inbox, some have you come in to the counter and some bring it out to you.


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## presley (Apr 6, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Is McDonald’s still open? I would not have guessed they are considered an essential service. I guess hamburgers are an essential service for kids. I assume only the drive through is open. How are they keeping their employees and customers safe? How are they handing out food to people while maintaining social distance and not touching the bags?


Yes, all the drive thrus are still open around here, even Starbucks. Nothing different in the drive thrus as far as handing bags, money, etc. I pay in cash and don't take the change, but they are still handing me a bag.

I went to Chipolte yesterday and everything seemed normal there, too, other than there is tape on the floor of where to stand in line, but that wasn't necessary because I was the only customer at the time. Our local frozen yogurt shop is meeting people at the door and taking their order and then going in to make it, charge you out, etc. They aren't letting anyone enter the shop.

I almost ordered breakfast delivery the other day, but the added on fees were going to double the cost of the breakfast. I am trying to keep my local places in business. I don't want my town shut down after we can go back to normal.


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## Rolltydr (Apr 6, 2020)

presley said:


> Yes, all the drive thrus are still open around here, even Starbucks. Nothing different in the drive thrus as far as handing bags, money, etc. I pay in cash and don't take the change, but they are still handing me a bag.
> 
> I went to Chipolte yesterday and everything seemed normal there, too, other than there is tape on the floor of where to stand in line, but that wasn't necessary because I was the only customer at the time. Our local frozen yogurt shop is meeting people at the door and taking their order and then going in to make it, charge you out, etc. They aren't letting anyone enter the shop.
> 
> I almost ordered breakfast delivery the other day, but the added on fees were going to double the cost of the breakfast. I am trying to keep my local places in business. I don't want my town shut down after we can go back to normal.



I wanted to take a drive a couple days ago just to get out of the house. I did not leave the car. I went to Starbucks because I thought all the drive thrus were open. Wrong. First one closed. Second one closed. Third one. Open. Yay! Got my fix, went for short drive and returned home.


Harry


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## Brett (Apr 6, 2020)

geekette said:


> yeah, same as always.  I never considered a drive through window to be "close".
> 
> My brother is a truck driver and has had to knock on drive thru windows because the rig won't fit.  So far, they accomodate, kindly, and thank him for his work.
> 
> ...



all the fast food drive thru windows are open - and some restaurants will take orders with you picking up


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## klpca (Apr 6, 2020)

presley said:


> Yes, all the drive thrus are still open around here, even Starbucks. Nothing different in the drive thrus as far as handing bags, money, etc. I pay in cash and don't take the change, but they are still handing me a bag.
> 
> I went to Chipolte yesterday and everything seemed normal there, too, other than there is tape on the floor of where to stand in line, but that wasn't necessary because I was the only customer at the time. Our local frozen yogurt shop is meeting people at the door and taking their order and then going in to make it, charge you out, etc. They aren't letting anyone enter the shop.
> 
> I almost ordered breakfast delivery the other day, but the added on fees were going to double the cost of the breakfast. I am trying to keep my local places in business. I don't want my town shut down after we can go back to normal.


We drove through on Saturday and the employees were wearing masks and gloves and they had installed a sneeze guard about 12" above the window sill (that seemed ineffective to me but I suppose that anything is better than nothing). 

@presley We have also tried to support our local businesses and some are better than others. Hands down, the best experience was at Yanni's. A bit on the expensive side but the portions were large enough that we made it into two meals. The Penne Chicken Marsala is amazing, and is even better the next day.


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## SandyPGravel (Apr 6, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I just heard on the news that 90% of people are staying home and following guidelines. So maybe people are smart and the stupid people are exceptions?



The neighbors that live on either side of me had a big bon fire and shot off fireworks Saturday night.  They are constantly at each others house and their kids are all playing together.  So, no social distancing, a fire ban was put in place last week in our state, and fireworks are always illegal(unless you are a farmer with a permit).  I guess they are our 10%.


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## presley (Apr 6, 2020)

SandyPGravel said:


> The neighbors that live on either side of me had a big bon fire and shot off fireworks Saturday night.  They are constantly at each others house and their kids are all playing together.  So, no social distancing, a fire ban was put in place last week in our state, and fireworks are always illegal(unless you are a farmer with a permit).  I guess they are our 10%.


Ha! That reminds me of a couple women with young children that I saw at the park the other day. The 2 women were standing at least 6 feet apart having a nice visit and their children played together who weren't social distancing and a baby crawling through the grass. I was thinking, "nice try, I guess...."  I guess that weekly playdate at the park is really important.


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