# DVC vs Wyndham and Hilton for Floridians



## cbyrne1174

I own Wyndham and can stay at  a 1-bedroom at Bonnet Creek for usually less than half the price of a DVC 1-bedroom any time of the year with no buy in cost (resale contracts are essentially free). Bonnet Creek is a 4 star resort that is part of the "Wyndham Grand" luxury collection. It has 2 lazy rivers, 12 hot tubs, 5 pools, 2 slides, a spa, mini golf, a bunch of bars and restaurants and a view of both magic kingdom and Epcot fireworks. To be exact, it costs $996 to stay in a 1-bedroom CHRISTMAS WEEK when you own. Saratoga Springs is $1781 for the same week with a $25,000 buy in cost.

Wyndham has 4 other Orlando properties, one of which is part of Reunion, which has a water park and 4 championship golf courses, among other 4.5 star amenities. Wyndham owners can also trade into Saratoga and Old Key West pretty easily once DVC deposits the leftovers into RCI, as well as 4 other beautiful Hilton resorts for less than what DVC and Hilton owners pay with their maintenance fees.

For those of you who *drive *to WDW for your vacations, would you still have bought into DVC if you knew you get a free contract and do all those fore mentioned exchanges for much cheaper?

I'm asking because I'm considering DVC for its theming for my kids, but that price tag is insane when you compare it to Wyndham!

Also, Wyndham has over 100 resorts all over the country as well. DVC has only a handful.


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## rhonda

Duplicate thread.  See:  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...h-dvc-when-youre-a-floridian-thoughts.278703/


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## elaine

responding to the Wyndham aspect vs DVC. If you are happy with W, then stick with that! We own DVC and like it for the theming, counter service restaurants, and buses around WDW. We have teens and then are old enough to come and go on the bus as they want. IF you drive to them parks (many use a car at DVC), then I see NO reason to buy DVC. IF we need a 2 BR, we will trade into W for about $1000 relative cost to us vs. the much higher maintenance fee at DVC. You don't get ME or 60 days FP+, but if that is not important to you, W is a great option.
For Hilton--we stayed is a great 3 BR a year ago--DH felt like a taxi service taking 2 teens with friends back and forth at different times or forcing them all to ride at the same time. We won't do that again. At W, they have multiple shuttles (for a fee), so it's a really good option, esp. if you need a 2 BR.


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## Dean

DVC only works for on property .  You have to feel that staying online is worth the extra.  DVC only works for DVC resorts, esp if you have other options outside DVC.


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## Firepath

The first two weeks of December are very high demand for DVC. It might not be that easy to get the dates you're looking for unless you book them exactly at 11 mos. for your home resort.


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## bnoble

About a dozen years ago, when I first got started in timeshare, I debated exactly this for myself. I ended up not buying DVC for a few  reasons:

1: The cost difference. We could afford DVC, but weren't sure it was the best use of our money.

2: We were not sure we would want to continue going to WDW more or less every year. At the time, the kids were early grade school, and I was concerned that they would "outgrow" WDW. In hindsight, this wasn't that much of a concern, as we continued going on Disney vacations more or less annually until this year, when the youngest started college.

3: We were not sure we cared that much about staying onsite vs. a well-located offsite timeshare: Bonnet, Vistana, etc. Again in hindsight, we ended up enjoying "the bubble" more than I thought we would, but not as much as some do.

4: We knew we wanted to have non-Disney vacations, and DVC could not help with those. We have taken many non-Disney vacations over the years, and enjoyed them just as much if not more than our WDW/DLR/DLRP visits.

As it happens, we were able to have our cake and eat it too. Over the years we were able to get several high-demand DVC exchanges through II and later RCI. That's not currently possible, so the calculus is a bit different. However, all things considered I would make the same decision.


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## cbyrne1174

I'm also factoring in that there are just SO many AWESOME resorts in Orlando that aren't part of a vacation club that I would end up losing out on by staying only at timeshare resorts.


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## noreenkate

Dean said:


> DVC only works for on property .  You have to feel that staying online is worth the extra.  DVC only works for DVC resorts, esp if you have other options outside DVC.



I kinda disagree with that part a bit...dvc also has a partnership with RCI- so we take advantage of last call and extra vacation cash specials ...agreed it’s not like owning at those resorts but it’s options for places like bush gardens va.



cbyrne1174 said:


> I'm also factoring in that there are just SO many AWESOME resorts in Orlando that aren't part of a vacation club that I would end up losing out on by staying only at timeshare resorts.



DVC is expensive compared to the surrounding resorts. Take your time and choose the best thing for your family in the long run.

To be honest we are loving DVC so much i would like to investigate other properties in other places that’s why I joined these boards...timeshares have IMO so wacky rules. I am here to learn. As I would love to eventually find something in Pidgeon Forge area but don’t understand the ins and outs.
DVC is pretty cut and dry with usage. You get these points on this date to use for 1 year.


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## Panina

I just recently contemplated getting a DVC timeshare.  As adults, we feel, nothing compares to staying on site if you are going to Disney. I also mostly own where I like to go. Being in our late 50’s I just could not justify spending what they cost.  We could buy multiple timeshares in other high demand locations.  So decided my hgvc resorts will do and if I get lucky and get a trade into Disney (Saratoga would be fine, I like it there) I will take it.  Also love Marriott’s Sabal Palms and trade there too with II.  Now the question is if I was younger with children would I buy......don’t think so at the price it is now.


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## Dean

noreenkate said:


> I kinda disagree with that part a bit...dvc also has a partnership with RCI- so we take advantage of last call and extra vacation cash specials ...agreed it’s not like owning at those resorts but it’s options for places like bush gardens va.


While it may have some usefulness, buying DVC for these options would be unreasonable.  Gravy but not worth buying DVC esp if DVC doesn't make sense otherwise.  It's much easier and cheaper to get the same options a different way, esp for places that are easy to exchange into like Orlando, LV, Williamsburg and Branson.


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## mj2vacation

We own DVC (700 points) and also live 10 minutes away.  Also own with Marriott.

There is nothing like staying on property.....

This year we rented out about 800 points through David’s rentals and used the cash for flights and activities in Hawaii, while using Marriott to go to the Maui Ocean Club and DVC for Aulani.

We had booked a week at Aulani on cash, with a really good special.  We bought some more points and cancelled the cash stay, using the $6000 toward the purchase.


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## noreenkate

Dean said:


> While it may have some usefulness, buying DVC for these options would be unreasonable.  Gravy but not worth buying DVC esp if DVC doesn't make sense otherwise.  It's much easier and cheaper to get the same options a different way, esp for places that are easy to exchange into like Orlando, LV, Williamsburg and Branson.



Not what I said- I bought DVC to stay at DVC I use the extra vacation cash options for just that- seeing other places we may be interested in.


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## cbyrne1174

noreenkate said:


> I kinda disagree with that part a bit...dvc also has a partnership with RCI- so we take advantage of last call and extra vacation cash specials ...agreed it’s not like owning at those resorts but it’s options for places like bush gardens va.
> 
> 
> 
> DVC is expensive compared to the surrounding resorts. Take your time and choose the best thing for your family in the long run.
> 
> To be honest we are loving DVC so much i would like to investigate other properties in other places that’s why I joined these boards...timeshares have IMO so wacky rules. I am here to learn. As I would love to eventually find something in Pidgeon Forge area but don’t understand the ins and outs.
> DVC is pretty cut and dry with usage. You get these points on this date to use for 1 year.



Buy Wyndham. The Seveirville properties have maintenance fees in the bottom third of all the properties because there isn't much property damage from weather in the mountains. If you find a smoky lodge contract, there's 3 water parks on property. If I had to chose between own wyndham vs DVC, I'd own wyndham by a long shot because they have at least 1 good resort in every major vacation destination in the country as well as the lowest maintenance fees of all the RCI vacation clubs. That being said, you can trade into Hilton for less than the price of owning hilton and properties have decent rci availability because hilton is concentrated in only FL, Myrtle beach, Las Vegas, DC, NYC and Hawaii.

If you're going to use ebay to buy wyndham, Sumday Vacations and Sean Singletary are the best sellers to buy from, with over 1500 positive reviews. When I bought from sean, a recorded deed was sent to wyndham within 3 weeks of auction ending.


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## Dean

noreenkate said:


> Not what I said- I bought DVC to stay at DVC I use the extra vacation cash options for just that- seeing other places we may be interested in.


So we're saying the same thing, buy DVC only for DVC.


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## noreenkate

Dean said:


> So we're saying the same thing, buy DVC only for DVC.



Again not exactly-dvc gives access to rci extras and last call. So owners aren’t stuck with only DVC resorts.



Dean said:


> DVC only works for on property .  You have to feel that staying online is worth the extra.  DVC only works for DVC resorts, esp if you have other options outside DVC.



Only works on property is not 100 % accurate-  points can be exchanged for RCI and there is the RCI cash option.

I do agree with you that staying on property has to be worth the extra-


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## TravelTime

I own at DVC and I am planning to sell all my points in the next year or so, mainly because DVC points are only good at DVC resorts, for all intensive purposes. I bought them for the family but the family dynamics have changed. You can trade DVC through RCI but the cost per point in maintenance fees is the same or more expensive than renting these same resorts, not to mention the high buy in cost. Also, there are very few resorts, if any, that are 4-5 star quality in RCI. Even most of The Registry resorts are mainly 4 star-ish. I have other less expensive timeshares that I can use to get Getaways or cheaper exchanges into any of the few RCI/Registry resorts I like. So far, the only time I have used RCI was for a wonderful Tradewinds Getaway but that is only allowed once every 4 years with RCI and the all inclusive fees and tips plus getaway fee was pretty expensive - about $3000 for a week. It is was still $1000 less than buying online as a last minute cash getaway direct from Tradewinds so still a good deal but I would not exchange DVC points for this. It would have been a bad trade since DVC points do not cover all inclusive fees. If anyone knows of some good, financially viable RCI trades with DVC points, please let us know.


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## Lisa P

TravelTime said:


> I own at DVC and I am planning to sell all my points in the next year or so, mainly because DVC points are only good at DVC resorts.... If anyone knows of some good, financially viable RCI trades with DVC points, please let us know.


As you realize, this is the caveat to DVC value... DVC points offer value only when they are used to stay at DVC resorts.  It's what Dean has tried to say in above posts.  While there are other options available to points system owners (DVC and others, like Hilton or Wyndham), they are generally NOT a good value, worth spending your points.

It's been many years since I can recall TUG posts about a truly valuable alternative way to use DVC points.  Between the exchange fee, DVC's high maintenance fees, and the added fees imposed on incoming exchangers by an increasing number of in-demand resorts (ex., DVC, NYC resorts, Gold Crown ski-in/ski-out), it's harder than ever to find good value in trading out of DVC, or even in using DVC points for other travel purchases.

Not sure most people here would know what resorts are a part of The Registry or otherwise that could be a fair value.  Aren't those exchanges available to other timeshare owners (who pay less) as well?  Still comparatively expensive for DVC owners.


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## Dean

noreenkate said:


> Again not exactly-dvc gives access to rci extras and last call. So owners aren’t stuck with only DVC resorts.
> 
> 
> 
> Only works on property is not 100 % accurate-  points can be exchanged for RCI and there is the RCI cash option.
> 
> I do agree with you that staying on property has to be worth the extra-


Then let me restate to be clear.  NONE of the other options other than DVC resort stays are reasonable to consider as part of the purchase decision other than in very limited circumstances the pass discounts for retail when there is a ton of volume and one will come out in just a few years using that discount alone.  That includes RCI, concierge and Disney collections as well as other perk options.


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## Jan M.

For 10 years we went to the Outer Banks sharing a house with other families. The three families all have a child the same age. I knew everything would change/end when they all turned 16, were driving, had jobs, on sports teams, etc. We were fortunate as splitting the cost of the house meant we were able to take other vacations as well. After the first two  years of those 10 years we were staying 2-3 weeks in June/July. There was no way I was spending that much to rent a house by ourselves so I told my husband we were buying our timeshare when I knew that last year was coming. The next summer when our son was 16 we started going to Myrtle Beach with the timeshare instead. That was the start of so many new experiences for us.

For us the Outer Banks was our Disney World vacations. In addition to the summer weeks we spent there we also went either at Christmas/New Years or Easter too. We did go to  Orlando/Disney World twice during those years and other places too but a beach vacation every year was our must. When we lived up North my husband had coworkers and people he came into contract with as part of his job whose big vacation every year was a Disney World trip while we were taking 3-4 vacations and sometimes a shorter stay in DC too. While we were walking around one of the Parks on our recent visit to Disney my husband said he didn't get it why people would want to do nothing else but Disney year after year. Disney vacations aren't cheap and there is a whole big world out their to experience. Yes Disney is impressive but it's noisy, crowded and not a very relaxing vacation. We both remember how exhausted we were at the end of the day back when we took our son. However I do see the attraction some people have for Disney because they stay on property, get the meal plan and use Disney buses so it is almost an all inclusive vacation for them. I reminded him of our 10 years of going to the Outer Banks and he reminded me that in addition to loving the beach we had another very good reason for doing the same thing over and over. Our son is an only child and because we shared a house it meant he had other kids his own age around 24/7. It was wonderful for him and he even got to share a bedroom. Yeah, only an only child would think that was a vacation treat!

Now I have to admit that we live in Florida, have the cheap Florida resident weekday select annual passes so can go to Disney World on a whim and we do. This year so far we spent a week at Saratoga Springs by ourselves. A week at Reunion and another time 10 nights at Bonnet Creek both with friends. Just recently we spent  5 nights at Bonnet Creek with one of our granddaughters. At the end of October we are going back to Bonnet Creek for 5 nights with both of our granddaughters and by ourselves or with friends will be at Silver Lake resort the week after Thanksgiving. We can bum around the Parks for a few hours and use our fast pass picks without feeling like we have to get our moneys worth out of the expensive Disney World tickets. But this year we've also stayed at the newly opened resort Wyndham Austin, Grandview Las Vegas, Wyndham Flagstaff,, Wyndham Glacier Canyon in the Wisconsin Dells and at Caloosa Cove in Islamorada in the Keys too. We have to get the paperwork finished to get our passports so we can try a cruise as we've never done one yet.

I've stayed at Disney's Vero Beach resort and expected to be wowed. I wasn't. There's nothing wrong with it, I just wasn't wowed. But that could be because we've stayed at so many great beach resorts since we moved to Florida. We really enjoyed our stays at Animal Kingdom Kidani Village in the savanna view units. But other than that I'll take Wyndham Bonnet Creek or Reunion over the other Disney resorts. Soon our other granddaughter who is now 2 will be talking well enough to start taking her vacations with us and most of the time unless her older sister is here we will be staying at Star Island or Vacation Village at Parkway with her until she is 4-4.5. At both of them we ask for a unit close to the pool and playground. We really like the ease and convenience of having everything so close when you have a little one and both have a nice playground and pools. I've stayed on Hilton Head although not at the Disney resort but at another very, very nice resort. I much prefer Sanibel, Captiva or Naples over Hilton Head. From what OP have posted the big thing about Aulani is that it is in Hawaii. From what most of them said they preferred other resorts, of which Hawaii has plenty.

The positives are that DVC does retain some resale value if you get Disneyed out and want to move on. And it rents very well if you aren't ready to get rid of it.


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## chalee94

noreenkate said:


> Again not exactly-dvc gives access to rci extras and last call. So owners aren’t stuck with only DVC resorts.
> 
> Only works on property is not 100 % accurate-  points can be exchanged for RCI and there is the RCI cash option.
> 
> I do agree with you that staying on property has to be worth the extra-



I was an owner with DVC for over a decade and DVC did NOT allow these options. DVC was the corporate owner of the RCI account and RCI would not speak to me - I would have had to call DVC to see if I could trade through RCI and last call was not an option. I bought in right after DVC left II, so for a while, you could trade DVC for Marriotts or Westins - but if I had bought DVC for that purpose, I would be out of luck.

Things changed so that DVC owners can book last call with RCI and that is nice, but what Dean is trying to say is that that change is not part of your DVC deed. Like any other perk, it can come and go.

I have a small DVC contract for onsite stays at WDW - I like it and the AP discount has been great (but that is also not guaranteed). I also have a non-DVC timeshare for stays off property at WDW and elsewhere. I am happy with my mix of timeshares and would suggest to the OP that if you are not committed to paying extra for onsite stays at WDW and want to use the timeshare often for non-Orlando trips (and only want 1 timeshare), then Wyndham sounds like it would be the choice for you. DVC is great for what it does, but it is a very expensive niche timeshare, and not a Swiss army knife.


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## littlestar

With you being a Florida resident you are already eligible for annual pass discounts and Disney resort discounts. Plus you have the option to drive to Disney for last minute deals. You could buy a small DVC contract, but I would not buy a big contract in your shoes. 

I like Interval International resorts way better than Wyndham/RCI. Most of RCI last calls are not anywhere I would want to even stay at.  And their one exception, Hilton, for Extra Vacations, now has extra daily resort fees tacked on. You can occasionally trade into Disney Saratoga 1 bedrooms through RCI.

The Wyndham hassle factor is a major turnoff for us and I plan on giving our Wyndham points back through Ovation. The DVC points I am keeping to treat our kids and grandchildren.


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## heathpack

We are west coast people so I can’t really speak to the Orlando dynamic.

But: we own Marriott, Disney, Hyatt and Vistana timeshares.

We like the Hyatt the best but it has declined in value so when we are done with it, we will be out most of our purchase price and all our maintenance fees.  Still a good value in our opinion but a loss nonetheless.

Our Marriott TSs were purchased inexpensively and we will likely be able to sell them for about what we paid for them.  With Marriott, when we’re done with the ownership, all we’ll be out is the MF.

Our Vistana Unit was free but when the day comes that we are done with it, we may have to offer a wee incentive to pass it on.  Thus, we’ll be out whatever incentive we offer to new owner PLUS the MF we put into it.

Our Disney points though are worth more than we paid for them.  Way more at Grand California and a little more in Hilton Head.  If we sold today, we’d make enough money to recoup ALL of our purchase price and ALL of the MFs we’ve paid over the years and still have money left over.

So: Our “expensive” DVC will likely turn out to be by far the least expensive in the long run.  This is an aspect of DVC that is frequently ignored.  

Also, the ability to buy however many points you want to meet your travel habits and to easily bank/borrow across three years means that there is zero need to own DVC or nothing else.  But 1/3 the points you need to stay for a week and stay at a DVC every third year.  Then stay at nonDVC timeshares the other two years, or don’t go to Disney at all.

DVC is definitely IMO the best timeshare product I own in terms of value.  I’m just not enough of a Disney fan for it to meet all my needs.


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## Dean

heathpack said:


> We are west coast people so I can’t really speak to the Orlando dynamic.
> 
> But: we own Marriott, Disney, Hyatt and Vistana timeshares.
> 
> We like the Hyatt the best but it has declined in value so when we are done with it, we will be out most of our purchase price and all our maintenance fees.  Still a good value in our opinion but a loss nonetheless.
> 
> Our Marriott TSs were purchased inexpensively and we will likely be able to sell them for about what we paid for them.  With Marriott, when we’re done with the ownership, all we’ll be out is the MF.
> 
> Our Vistana Unit was free but when the day comes that we are done with it, we may have to offer a wee incentive to pass it on.  Thus, we’ll be out whatever incentive we offer to new owner PLUS the MF we put into it.
> 
> Our Disney points though are worth more than we paid for them.  Way more at Grand California and a little more in Hilton Head.  If we sold today, we’d make enough money to recoup ALL of our purchase price and ALL of the MFs we’ve paid over the years and still have money left over.
> 
> So: Our “expensive” DVC will likely turn out to be by far the least expensive in the long run.  This is an aspect of DVC that is frequently ignored.
> 
> Also, the ability to buy however many points you want to meet your travel habits and to easily bank/borrow across three years means that there is zero need to own DVC or nothing else.  But 1/3 the points you need to stay for a week and stay at a DVC every third year.  Then stay at nonDVC timeshares the other two years, or don’t go to Disney at all.
> 
> DVC is definitely IMO the best timeshare product I own in terms of value.  I’m just not enough of a Disney fan for it to meet all my needs.


Our Bluegreen is our cheapest and our best dollar value.  Marriott is our best enjoyment value.  DVC is our most expensive by far.  Most don't take into account the dues which are roughly 30% more for many situations apples to apples (as best you can compare).  DVC's draw is location and theming, IMO, Marriott does a better job in many areas and many of their resorts are better than the DVC resorts looked at objectively other than theming.  And DVC's theming has taken a hit the last few years.


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## djohn06

cbyrne1174 said:


> Buy Wyndham. The Seveirville properties have maintenance fees in the bottom third of all the properties because there isn't much property damage from weather in the mountains. If you find a smoky lodge contract, there's 3 water parks on property. If I had to chose between own wyndham vs DVC, I'd own wyndham by a long shot because they have at least 1 good resort in every major vacation destination in the country as well as the lowest maintenance fees of all the RCI vacation clubs. That being said, you can trade into Hilton for less than the price of owning hilton and properties have decent rci availability because hilton is concentrated in only FL, Myrtle beach, Las Vegas, DC, NYC and Hawaii.
> 
> If you're going to use ebay to buy wyndham, Sumday Vacations and Sean Singletary are the best sellers to buy from, with over 1500 positive reviews. When I bought from sean, a recorded deed was sent to wyndham within 3 weeks of auction ending.



I don't think it's a choice to pick between Wyndham and DVC. Wyndam points are under 1k resale.  Anybody can buy them.

The question is, is the DVC premium worth it?  

To me, my time is precious.  While I'm walking to my DVC room as the park closes, I'm thinking about the the folks spending 15-20 mins waiting for a shuttle, fighting for spots on the tram or walking to the end of a parking lot, stuck in traffic for another 10-15 minutes, or going thru a separate security gate in the am wasting another 10 minutes.  Meanwhile in 5 - 8 minutes I'm at Boardwalk or Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower in my room.

I've taken my shower, put my feet up while they are still trying to crank up the AC in a car.  I've easily saved an hour a day by staying within walking distance at a park.  Not to mention, if I stay on the monorail, I have a choice of over 15 different dining locations at the resort without having to drive (same with Epcot resorts).

I'll gladly pay the premium to save 90 minutes everyday in transit.  

Also, DVC owners that rent points know that they can rent points at 2.5x maint fees.  Only a select few resorts anywhere can achieve this.  If you really want to recoup your buy in fees, just sell back points.  

Personally, I bought both into 5 different programs including Wyndham.  If I'm in Orlando and don't plan on going to the parks much Wyndam is fine. My actual favorite offsite near Disney is Sabal Palms.  Can't beat the slides and large pool at the world center.


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## djohn06

Dean said:


> Our Bluegreen is our cheapest and our best dollar value.  Marriott is our best enjoyment value.  DVC is our most expensive by far.  Most don't take into account the dues which are roughly 30% more for many situations apples to apples (as best you can compare).  DVC's draw is location and theming, IMO, Marriott does a better job in many areas and many of their resorts are better than the DVC resorts looked at objectively other than theming.  And DVC's theming has taken a hit the last few years.



This is spot on except for the expenses.  However, I think you may be missing hidden fees or perk savings as well with DVC.

DVC isn't a nickel and dime program, which I love.  Some programs charge guest certicate fees, booking fees and cleaning fees.  DVC doesn't.  Plus, you have to factor in transportation costs to and from the airport at offsite resorts that DVC fees cover with Magic express included.  With DVC no car is required unlike many offsite locations.  Some off site resorts even charge fees to take their shuttle to the parks.  That has to be added into the equation too. There are parking fees at some resorts that DVC doesn't charge owners.  I value Disney's transportation network as a $300 savings for a week for my family of four.

Lastly, I save 20 percent yearly off DVC maint fees by paying with gift cards purchased at my grocery store using my Blue Amex preferred card.  The card gets me 6 percent off.  I wait until I get 4X points to get a $1 off gas at Kroger's up to 35 gallons of gas.  I'm saving $200 per $1,000 spent.

Not to mention other DVC discounts on tickets and food at the parks.

So my standard two bedroom Bay Lake tower maint fee of 1,687 for one week during adventure season, is reduced to $1,350 with my credit card/ gas savings.  Plus no car needed.  No addition transportation costs from airport/ parking fees drops this down to $1,050.  This is well below what Marriott or Vistana charges for a two bedroom.  It's pretty much in Wyndham territory.


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## Panina

djohn06 said:


> I don't think it's a choice to pick between Wyndham and DVC. Wyndam points are under 1k resale.  Anybody can buy them.
> 
> The question is, is the DVC premium worth it?
> 
> To me, my time is precious.  While I'm walking to my DVC room as the park closes, I'm thinking about the the folks spending 15-20 mins waiting for a shuttle, fighting for spots on the tram or walking to the end of a parking lot, stuck in traffic for another 10-15 minutes, or going thru a separate security gate in the am wasting another 10 minutes.  Meanwhile in 5 - 8 minutes I'm at Boardwalk or Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower in my room.
> 
> I've taken my shower, put my feet up while they are still trying to crank up the AC in a car.  I've easily saved an hour a day by staying within walking distance at a park.  Not to mention, if I stay on the monorail, I have a choice of over 15 different dining locations at the resort without having to drive (same with Epcot resorts).
> 
> I'll gladly pay the premium to save 90 minutes everyday in transit.
> 
> Also, DVC owners that rent points know that they can rent points at 2.5x maint fees.  Only a select few resorts anywhere can achieve this.  If you really want to recoup your buy in fees, just sell back points.
> 
> Personally, I bought both into 5 different programs including Wyndham.  If I'm in Orlando and don't plan on going to the parks much Wyndam is fine. My actual favorite offsite near Disney is Sabal Palms.  Can't beat the slides and large pool at the world center.


Even though I am not a dvc owner I agree with you.  I have been fortunate to be able to trade into dvc a few times and there is nothing like being on disney properties with all the conveniences.  Off site Sabal Palms is my favorite too.


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## Dean

djohn06 said:


> This is spot on except for the expenses.  However, I think you may be missing hidden fees or perk savings as well with DVC.
> 
> DVC isn't a nickel and dime program, which I love.  Some programs charge guest certicate fees, booking fees and cleaning fees.  DVC doesn't.  Plus, you have to factor in transportation costs to and from the airport at offsite resorts that DVC fees cover with Magic express included.  With DVC no car is required unlike many offsite locations.  Some off site resorts even charge fees to take their shuttle to the parks.  That has to be added into the equation too. There are parking fees at some resorts that DVC doesn't charge owners.  I value Disney's transportation network as a $300 savings for a week for my family of four.
> 
> Lastly, I save 20 percent yearly off DVC maint fees by paying with gift cards purchased at my grocery store using my Blue Amex preferred card.  The card gets me 6 percent off.  I wait until I get 4X points to get a $1 off gas at Kroger's up to 35 gallons of gas.  I'm saving $200 per $1,000 spent.
> 
> Not to mention other DVC discounts on tickets and food at the parks.
> 
> So my standard two bedroom Bay Lake tower maint fee of 1,687 for one week during adventure season, is reduced to $1,350 with my credit card/ gas savings.  Plus no car needed.  No addition transportation costs from airport/ parking fees drops this down to $1,050.  This is well below what Marriott or Vistana charges for a two bedroom.  It's pretty much in Wyndham territory.


The reason I qualified it as "30% more for many situations apples to apples" is that it depends on how you use it.  If you use the flexibility and use mostly studios, it may be cheaper.  Let's take SSR summer and compare to Marriott Grande Vista.  344 points for a 2 BR for a week at SSR is $2036 for fees at the current price.  GV is $1354 yearly.  That difference will certainly grow as inflation marches along.  If you have a lockoff fee non enrolled or club dues enrolled, the difference is still 25% for direct usage.  DVC provides RCI access but it is restricted, Marriott is MUCH better exchanging with II whether enrolled or not enrolled even with a lockoff, II membership and exchange fee non enrolled it's still dramatically better IMO.  Of course the devil's in the details and each should look at their own situation to compare.  I don't give the gift card issue any importance but if you did you'd have to compare to getting 5 or 6 times points on the Marriott fees as well.  BTW, I don't consider the Marriott fees as nickel and dime, with the wyndham housekeeping credits, I like would.


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## elaine

We own DVC and would always pick DVC if cost was equal.  But, considering cost (just for annual fees-IMHO, I'll recoup my DVC capital outlay on resale), here's what we do: 
small space (studio) = DVC; 
Big space (2BR) = HGVC, BC, Marriott; 
1BR =DVC if less than 7 nights or RCI-DVC trade,otherwise, switch to 2 BR above.


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## jberndt10

My husband and I are empty nesters, have owned Wyndham (resale) for many years and in January bought a small direct DVC. Not your typical demographic. What drove us were a lot of the perks, which I know can go away, and the convenience. I’m to the point where I wanted the ease of coming and going to the parks on my terms. And maybe this was my problem (or DH) but once we got into the park at 9a, we weren’t leaving till it closed. 
What really drove us though was our last trip, just me and hubby, it was so much fun without kids!  We met so many other empty nesters, who felt the same and who couldn’t say enough good things about Disney and how they’re made to feel as owners. Now again our fault for going, but I have never come out of a Wyndham “update” without being at least a little peeved for being treated as second class citizens. 
Now as a I said we bought a small contract 50 points, cause we don’t plan on going every year, but enough to go every three years. I do have to confess though we came home and bought another 50 resale for a cushion (and someday we may have grandkids)
Last but not least it’s always important to remember with timeshare, it’s not always about the cost, it’s about wonderful vacations and memories.


----------



## floydp

TravelTime said:


> I own at DVC and I am planning to sell all my points in the next year or so, mainly because DVC points are only good at DVC resorts, for all intensive purposes. I bought them for the family but the family dynamics have changed. You can trade DVC through RCI but the cost per point in maintenance fees is the same or more expensive than renting these same resorts, not to mention the high buy in cost. Also, there are very few resorts, if any, that are 4-5 star quality in RCI. Even most of The Registry resorts are mainly 4 star-ish. I have other less expensive timeshares that I can use to get Getaways or cheaper exchanges into any of the few RCI/Registry resorts I like. So far, the only time I have used RCI was for a wonderful Tradewinds Getaway but that is only allowed once every 4 years with RCI and the all inclusive fees and tips plus getaway fee was pretty expensive - about $3000 for a week. It is was still $1000 less than buying online as a last minute cash getaway direct from Tradewinds so still a good deal but I would not exchange DVC points for this. It would have been a bad trade since DVC points do not cover all inclusive fees. If anyone knows of some good, financially viable RCI trades with DVC points, please let us know.


As you may know or have learned from other postings on this thread, you could rent your DVC and make money. If you don't want to bother with any of that and really want to sell, then I implore you to list on TUG. I am sure that there are others like myself that would be eager to buy your DVC.


----------



## TravelTime

floydp said:


> As you may know or have learned from other postings on this thread, you could rent your DVC and make money. If you don't want to bother with any of that and really want to sell, then I implore you to list on TUG. I am sure that there are others like myself that would be eager to buy your DVC.



Yes we may consider renting the points before selling. I just am skittish about renting our points and weeks of any of my timeshares because I have never done it. But I need to learn since I think we now have more timeshares than we can use in a given year. Too bad I deposited some weeks into II because I can’t rent those out now. But I was too close to the travel date to even attempt to rent the ones I deposited. I did try working with DVC Rental Store to rent my DVC points and do a cruise swap but I was not happy working with them. David’s is another rental option I could try if I do not learn to do it myself.


----------



## djohn06

Marriott is definitely not a nickel and dime program.  I should have clarified that better.

I hope they don't go the route of Wyndham or even Hilton for booking fees.

You did select the highest category room 2 bedroom at SSR during the 2 highest point season. But, I can play with those numbers too. If SSR is the choice standard rooms still come in at $1737.  Animal Kingdom Lodge value two bedroom would cost $1,642 during this same period. Most people staying offsite rent a car if they are flying.  $20 each day parking Fees at Disney, gas and tolls would easily put you around $350.  I know Marriott doesn't have resort charge fees, but some timeshare do. Knock $350 in transportation fees off and you are right at Marriott cost during peak season.  Conversely, if you go in December or November (when most DVC members prefer to go), the DVC maint fee for that 2 bedroom is 18 to 20 percent cheaper putting it as same value as Marriott before transportation savings.

My point is it's impossible to look at a room to room cost when comparing DVC vs any other program.  A better comparison would be for you to look at all Disney costs and tally those against DVC (food, transportation, and tickets).

If my DVC membership saves me 10-20 percent off food and souvenirs, $200 off annual pass tickets per person, and $300 in transportation costs per trip when compared to other programs (not just Marriott), I think DVC will prove its value financially.

As far as my twenty percent disney savings buying disney gift cards to pay for my maint fees, if the local grocery store sells Marriott gift cards and Marriott owners can use them to pay their maint fees, that would be an equal savings.  Maybe someone is currently doing that within Marriott's program.

My point was to illustrate total savings to show you that DVC maint fees cover much more than just a roof over your head, so how could you compare DVC maint fees to offsite maint fees that only cover the roof over your head?


----------



## Dean

djohn06 said:


> Marriott is definitely not a nickel and dime program.  I should have clarified that better.
> 
> I hope they don't go the route of Wyndham or even Hilton for booking fees.
> 
> You did select the highest category room 2 bedroom at SSR during the 2 highest point season. But, I can play with those numbers too. If SSR is the choice standard rooms still come in at $1737.  Animal Kingdom Lodge value two bedroom would cost $1,642 during this same period. Most people staying offsite rent a car if they are flying.  $20 each day parking Fees at Disney, gas and tolls would easily put you around $350.  I know Marriott doesn't have resort charge fees, but some timeshare do. Knock $350 in transportation fees off and you are right at Marriott cost during peak season.  Conversely, if you go in December or November (when most DVC members prefer to go), the DVC maint fee for that 2 bedroom is 18 to 20 percent cheaper putting it as same value as Marriott before transportation savings.
> 
> My point is it's impossible to look at a room to room cost when comparing DVC vs any other program.  A better comparison would be for you to look at all Disney costs and tally those against DVC (food, transportation, and tickets).
> 
> If my DVC membership saves me 10-20 percent off food and souvenirs, $200 off annual pass tickets per person, and $300 in transportation costs per trip when compared to other programs (not just Marriott), I think DVC will prove its value financially.
> 
> As far as my twenty percent disney savings buying disney gift cards to pay for my maint fees, if the local grocery store sells Marriott gift cards and Marriott owners can use them to pay their maint fees, that would be an equal savings.  Maybe someone is currently doing that within Marriott's program.
> 
> My point was to illustrate total savings to show you that DVC maint fees cover much more than just a roof over your head, so how could you compare DVC maint fees to offsite maint fees that only cover the roof over your head?


That's why I said apples to apples.  But one could do the same for the DC options.  If one wants to include park parking for this comparison as I laid it out, 5-6 days would be the correct amount to consider but there are other ways to get parking, passes usually include it.  IMO the best individual comparison is how one will use it.  For many they want to look at the flexibility but they often end up using it the same way as they would a weeks timeshare.  For me personally I'd add consider value on the trading side but I didn't include any dollars there because that is even more variable and individual.  The other component is one should also consider the TVM/Opportunity costs of the difference in dollars going in.


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## jberndt10

When we were looking there were no DVC’s on tug. Unfortunately with Disney’s ROFR, i think it’s easier to use a broker.


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## Dean

jberndt10 said:


> When we were looking there were no DVC’s on tug. Unfortunately with Disney’s ROFR, i think it’s easier to use a broker.


There's no reason not to unless one is buying from a friend, family member or direct acquaintance fro the buyer.  And little benefit to the seller.


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## TravelTime

jberndt10 said:


> When we were looking there were no DVC’s on tug. Unfortunately with Disney’s ROFR, i think it’s easier to use a broker.



Very few Tuggers own at DVC. These are the most active DVC threads I have seen in over a year.


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## bnoble

djohn06 said:


> I'll gladly pay the premium to save 90 minutes everyday in transit.


Having stayed at BCV, BWV, other DVC resorts, Bonnet Creek, and other Disney resorts, I can say that this GREATLY overstates the difference in transit times in my experience.


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## TravelTime

bnoble said:


> Having stayed at BCV, BWV, other DVC resorts, Bonnet Creek, and other Disney resorts, I can say that this GREATLY overstates the difference in transit times in my experience.



Please share your experience with us.


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## Panina

TravelTime said:


> Very few Tuggers own at DVC. These are the most active DVC threads I have seen in over a year.



Maybe many tuggers own but because they are happy and dvc is an easy system to use, discussions are less.  Or maybe many tuggers didn’t buy because many of us find more cost effective alternatives.

I have contemplated owning at dvc as I love the experience, nothing like staying on site.

I just couldn’t make the purchasec price work in my head. Using a one bedroom in the equation, hubby dislikes studios, instead of dvc I got two prime one br fixed winter weeks in old key west AND two 2 br winter flex weeks at hgvc marco Island, for the price one week at dvc saratoga would cost for me to purchase.  Four prime weeks instead of one dvc week.  

Meanwhile trading my hgvc points into dvc and if that availability disappears Marriott’s and hgvc in orlando will do.


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## Dean

Panina said:


> Maybe many tuggers own but because they are happy and dvc is an easy system to use, discussions are less.  Or maybe many tuggers didn’t buy because many of us find more cost effective alternatives.
> 
> I have contemplated owning at dvc as I love the experience, nothing like staying on site.
> 
> I just couldn’t make the purchasec price work in my head. Using a one bedroom in the equation, hubby dislikes studios, instead of dvc I got two prime one br fixed winter weeks in old key west AND two 2 br winter flex weeks at hgvc marco Island, for the price one week at dvc saratoga would cost for me to purchase.  Four prime weeks instead of one dvc week.
> 
> Meanwhile trading my hgvc points into dvc and if that availability disappears Marriott’s and hgvc in orlando will do.


More likely DVC is a specialty product that lends itself to a small group of people.  Basically those who feel paying more to stay on property is worth it.  DVC is not the traditional timeshare in the sense of the way owners and potential owners look at it though at the end of the day it's just another nice timeshare.


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## TravelTime

Panina said:


> Maybe many tuggers own but because they are happy and dvc is an easy system to use, discussions are less.  Or maybe many tuggers didn’t buy because many of us find more cost effective alternatives.
> 
> I have contemplated owning at dvc as I love the experience, nothing like staying on site.
> 
> I just couldn’t make the purchasec price work in my head. Using a one bedroom in the equation, hubby dislikes studios, instead of dvc I got two prime one br fixed winter weeks in old key west AND two 2 br winter flex weeks at hgvc marco Island, for the price one week at dvc saratoga would cost for me to purchase.  Four prime weeks instead of one dvc week.
> 
> Meanwhile trading my hgvc points into dvc and if that availability disappears Marriott’s and hgvc in orlando will do.



This is why I think so few Tuggers own at DVC. I don’t think people here see much value in it from a financial point of view. Tuggers seems to be very financially saavy and into the bottom line.


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## Jan M.

My husband was asking me if DVC has changed or if it is still 20-30 year ownerships, not lifetime?


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## heathpack

Jan M. said:


> My husband was asking me if DVC has changed or if it is still 20-30 year ownerships, not lifetime?



It’s always been 60 years.


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## famy27

TravelTime said:


> This is why I think so few Tuggers own at DVC. I don’t think people here do not see much value in it from a financial point of view. Tuggers seems to be very financially saavy and into the bottom line.



I see a ton of value from the financial point of view. I bought BLT resale in October 2015. If I sold it today, I would probably make about $4000 more than I paid for it. The first year, I rented half my points and covered all my MFs. If I sold today, my past three years' of DVC vacations would have been totally free, and I'd probably even have a few hundred dollars left over. And I saved well over $1000 on my APs with the DVC discount as well. I didn't buy it with the idea of selling it for a profit, but it's nice to know the option exists. 

Compare that to my Wyndham. I bought it in 2008 for $212. If I sold it today, I'd be lucky to get back my $212. I'd probably just deed it back using Ovations. And I'd be out the 10 years' worth of MFs I'd paid. I like the Wyndham resorts, but I hate all the fees and the crazy sales pressure. 

For me, it's a no-brainer. Disney was a much better deal for me financially and emotionally. Now I want to deed back my Wyndham and buy more DVC.


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## TravelTime

famy27 said:


> I see a ton of value from the financial point of view. I bought BLT resale in October 2015. If I sold it today, I would probably make about $4000 more than I paid for it. The first year, I rented half my points and covered all my MFs. If I sold today, my past three years' of DVC vacations would have been totally free, and I'd probably even have a few hundred dollars left over. And I saved well over $1000 on my APs with the DVC discount as well. I didn't buy it with the idea of selling it for a profit, but it's nice to know the option exists.
> 
> Compare that to my Wyndham. I bought it in 2008 for $212. If I sold it today, I'd be lucky to get back my $212. I'd probably just deed it back using Ovations. And I'd be out the 10 years' worth of MFs I'd paid. I like the Wyndham resorts, but I hate all the fees and the crazy sales pressure.
> 
> For me, it's a no-brainer. Disney was a much better deal for me financially and emotionally. Now I want to deed back my Wyndham and buy more DVC.



This is good to hear. I don’t think most Tuggers see Disney this way. I agree with you. I own 470 DVC points and thinking I may not sell after all. We bought for the family but family dynamics unexpectedly changed and threw us a curve ball. Now, I decided I am going to use them myself with DH or rent out the points we can’t use. Now that I bought in, it’s a sunk cost and I think the MFs are reasonable. I like the simplicity of DVC. I love Disney’s customer service. DVC is the easiest timeshare program to use. We are visiting Aulani soon and I am really looking forward to it.


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## Dean

heathpack said:


> It’s always been 60 years.


Not accurate.  Initially OKW was 50 years and then all of the resorts that came online after that ended the same date (1/31/2042) until SSR which was a new 50 years.  The resorts since have been 50 years, it's never been 60.


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## heathpack

Dean said:


> Not accurate.  Initially OKW was 50 years and then all of the resorts that came online after that ended the same date (1/31/2042) until SSR which was a new 50 years.  The resorts since have been 50 years, it's never been 60.



Lol ok.  You are, as always, right I’m sure.

It’s 50 years.  The point is it’s not 20-30 years.  It’s essentially a “lifetime,” given that most people aren’t purchasing until well into adulthood. 

This is another “issue” people have with DVC that IMO is a complete non issue.  People want to pass timeshares down to their kids only to realize later their kids may not want them.  The useful lifespan of a TS is 30-40 years max for most people.  DVC has a built in exit strategy which is realistically nothing but a positive.

I’m not a DVC Pollyanna by any means.  I can see both the pros and the cons of it.  The thing that surprises me is how many people focus on it being “expensive” when it’s the only timeshare currently that regularly appreciates in value.  Since right now with DVC you can reasonably expect to sell your ownership at enough of a profit that all of your ownership expenses are covered, DVC is quite obviously beating even free timeshares as a value proposition.


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## bizaro86

DVC expiring isn't a pro, given how expensive they are resale. If you hold it to the expiry - some of which are in only 24 years - you will have sunk your purchase price. If they were perpetual, it's very likely that the "exit strategy" for people who were past their DVC after 50 years of ownership would be to sell it for significant $$.


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## Panina

TravelTime said:


> This is good to hear. I don’t think most Tuggers see Disney this way. I agree with you. I own 470 DVC points and thinking I may not sell after all. We bought for the family but family dynamics unexpectedly changed and threw us a curve ball. Now, I decided I am going to use them myself with DH or rent out the points we can’t use. Now that I bought in, it’s a sunk cost and I think the MFs are reasonable. I like the simplicity of DVC. I love Disney’s customer service. DVC is the easiest timeshare program to use. We are visiting Aulani soon and I am really looking forward to it.


I am glad you have decided to use it.  The value is in you using it the best you can. You own it already to enjoy. DVC is definitely the timeshare that held its value the best and based on past performance the future looks good but there is no guarantee for the future. If I owned DVC , even if I knew it would lose value I would keep it and enjoy it.  My guess is I could trade with tuggers for the best weeks anywhere I want to go.  If I only purchased DVC years ago, but I didn’t.


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## heathpack

bizaro86 said:


> DVC expiring isn't a pro, given how expensive they are resale. If you hold it to the expiry - some of which are in only 24 years - you will have sunk your purchase price. If they were perpetual, it's very likely that the "exit strategy" for people who were past their DVC after 50 years of ownership would be to sell it for significant $$.



Well we shall just have to disagree on this.

I didn’t start buying timeshares until I was in my 40s.  I’m probably not going to want to use them much more than a total of 25-35 years. 

If I sell my DVC after 10-15 years of ownership, I’ll recoup a lot of my initial investment.  If I sell after 30 years of ownership, I’ll recoup less of my initial investment but I’ll have gotten more use out of it.  Either way, it works.

The contracts with only 24 years left sell for half the cost of the contracts which expire later.  So my choice is: pay more now and get a better resale price in 20 years or pay less now and get little to no resale price in 20 years.  

The lack of an exit strategy for timeshare ownership is a huge problem for the industry.  All timeshares should expire IMO.  It’s a positive.


----------



## Dean

heathpack said:


> Lol ok.  You are, as always, right I’m sure.
> 
> It’s 50 years.  The point is it’s not 20-30 years.  It’s essentially a “lifetime,” given that most people aren’t purchasing until well into adulthood.
> 
> This is another “issue” people have with DVC that IMO is a complete non issue.  People want to pass timeshares down to their kids only to realize later their kids may not want them.  The useful lifespan of a TS is 30-40 years max for most people.  DVC has a built in exit strategy which is realistically nothing but a positive.
> 
> I’m not a DVC Pollyanna by any means.  I can see both the pros and the cons of it.  The thing that surprises me is how many people focus on it being “expensive” when it’s the only timeshare currently that regularly appreciates in value.  Since right now with DVC you can reasonably expect to sell your ownership at enough of a profit that all of your ownership expenses are covered, DVC is quite obviously beating even free timeshares as a value proposition.


I'd agree that's likely the useful life for the buyer but it will eventually affect the value even without other market forces and it will truly be zero at some point, likely some point well before the end of the ROFR.  But is is less than 30 years for 6 of the resorts.  Personally I don't think the RTU is a big deal if all else makes sense but I don't see it as a positive.  I feel that assuming one can sell in a number of years and get their money back is a bit optimistic.  It might or might not be so, it depends on other factors beyond our control.  5 yeas maybe but over 10-15 years there's a lot that can happen.  I know some are convinced they'll offer extensions but IMO even if they do, the chance that it'll make financial sense to extend is likely to be almost zero.


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## pekckian1

We bought DVC to ensure that we have good times and memories at theme parks or Aulani with our families. If we don't stay ourselves, we will rent it for 4X of MF through Redweek or EBay.


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## sparkspeak

djohn06 said:


> Lastly, I save 20 percent yearly off DVC maint fees by paying with gift cards purchased at my grocery store using my Blue Amex preferred card. The card gets me 6 percent off. I wait until I get 4X points to get a $1 off gas at Kroger's up to 35 gallons of gas. I'm saving $200 per $1,000 spent.



Help! I don't understand how you figure 20% savings on annual maintenance fees. 
I get the 6% Amex, but where does the other 14% come from?


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## heathpack

Dean said:


> I'd agree that's likely the useful life for the buyer but it will eventually affect the value even without other market forces and it will truly be zero at some point, likely some point well before the end of the ROFR.  But is is less than 30 years for 6 of the resorts.  Personally I don't think the RTU is a big deal if all else makes sense but I don't see it as a positive.  I feel that assuming one can sell in a number of years and get their money back is a bit optimistic.  It might or might not be so, it depends on other factors beyond our control.  5 yeas maybe but over 10-15 years there's a lot that can happen.  I know some are convinced they'll offer extensions but IMO even if they do, the chance that it'll make financial sense to extend is likely to be almost zero.



Absolutely.

My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
1.  People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
2.  People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end

Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back?  No, of course not.  Will some people?  Yes absolutely.  Either way, DVC is the only appreciating timeshare out there and to ignore that piece of the puzzle when we’re talking about what’s the best “value” amongst our timeshare ownerships is just ignoring a very major piece.

All timeshare purchases are a gamble- we are betting that prepaying some of our future travel expenses in the form of timeshare ownership will save money in the long run.  So I get it that people don’t feel comfortable gambling $50K.  I personally would never spend that much on a TS (and didn’t spend that much on my DVC).  But, still, rationally, DVC seems insurmountably expensive to people because they look at the initial purchase price and MFs without looking at the unique situation with DVC that is has resale value.

So my point for OP is that Wyndham seems cheaper but it might not be.  If I were considering it, I’d educate myself as to which Orlando DVC gave the biggest bang for my buck as far as finding a sweet spot between initial purchase price and anticipated resale price down the road.  I’d make some very conservative assumptions but I would not assume resale value to be zero.  I’d also really think a lot about the nature of TS ownership and question all the common wisdom.  Not throw it out the window, because some of the wisdom is spot on.  But some of the wisdom is wrong, or just wrong for an individual’s personal scenario.  Then make decisions based on your personal paradigm.  Some of us draw different conclusions and act upon them in ways that might not work for others, because our paradigm, preferences, risk-aversion etc varies.


----------



## Dean

heathpack said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
> 1.  People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
> 2.  People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end
> 
> Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back?  No, of course not.  Will some people?  Yes absolutely.  Either way, DVC is the only appreciating timeshare out there and to ignore that piece of the puzzle when we’re talking about what’s the best “value” amongst our timeshare ownerships is just ignoring a very major piece.
> 
> All timeshare purchases are a gamble- we are betting that prepaying some of our future travel expenses in the form of timeshare ownership will save money in the long run.  So I get it that people don’t feel comfortable gambling $50K.  I personally would never spend that much on a TS (and didn’t spend that much on my DVC).  But, still, rationally, DVC seems insurmountably expensive to people because they look at the initial purchase price and MFs without looking at the unique situation with DVC that is has resale value.
> 
> So my point for OP is that Wyndham seems cheaper but it might not be.  If I were considering it, I’d educate myself as to which Orlando DVC gave the biggest bang for my buck as far as finding a sweet spot between initial purchase price and anticipated resale price down the road.  I’d make some very conservative assumptions but I would not assume resale value to be zero.  I’d also really think a lot about the nature of TS ownership and question all the common wisdom.  Not throw it out the window, because some of the wisdom is spot on.  But some of the wisdom is wrong, or just wrong for an individual’s personal scenario.  Then make decisions based on your personal paradigm.  Some of us draw different conclusions and act upon them in ways that might not work for others, because our paradigm, preferences, risk-aversion etc varies.


My take is this.  DVC is a different animal in that the increased value (real and perceived) is based on emotions and personal preference more so than other timeshares.  DVC is more expensive going in and more expensive ongoing than say Marriott or Hilton, probably the best comparisons.  When you include the TVM/Opportunity costs from the up front purchase and higher dues, things will have to continue at their current pace just to "break even" and it's dramatically unlikely they will thus I assume one will lose $$$ in owning long term regardless of hold to the end or sell but there may be usage that has value in between which is the reason to buy a timeshare anyway.  For non DVC timeshares I normally would consider an average usage volume of a 2 BR once a year as the minimum for the numbers to work.  DVC obviously is a little different in that regard but if I'm going to compare, I'm going to assume that volume as the minimum for both.  When you look at the up front costs and dues, Bluegreen, Wyndham, Worldmark and the like are probably the cheapest options even with the nickel and dime stuff.  Hilton and Marriott are in between and DVC the most expensive.  But for someone who's comparison is not other timeshares but cash at Disney, it looks completely different.  Plus DVC is a horrible choice as a single option for Disney and non Disney travel, the other options tend to be much better to cover both as a single entity.  For many both DVC and something else is a good choice (It is or me) assuming they value the on property options enough to pay more.


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## bnoble

TravelTime said:


> Please share your experience with us.


Happy to.

BCV is close to the World Showcase entrance. It's not close to the Magic Kingdom entrance. (It's not even particularly close to the Studios entrance---and yes, I've walked it.) Vice versa for BLT. Nothing is close to everything, and being centrally located can be better for a week's vacation in terms of transit time than being at one end of property or the other.

What's more, the walk from most places in Epcot to the front half of the parking lot is within a minute or two of the walk from that same spot to BCV. (Check google maps if you doubt this.) It takes ten minutes or less to drive between that spot and Bonnet Creek. So, even in the best case, I'm saving _maybe_ 20 minutes by staying at BCV vs. Bonnet. And again, I've done both.


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## bnoble

Dean said:


> When you include the TVM/Opportunity costs from the up front purchase


Something that almost _no one_ does, to the point that I've given up even trying.


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## Cyberc

heathpack said:


> The contracts with only 24 years left sell for half the cost of the contracts which expire later.  So my choice is: pay more now and get a better resale price in 20 years or pay less now and get little to no resale price in 20 years.


I slightly disagree none of the current WDW resort which expires in 24 years sells for half price compared to those that expires later. None wdw resorts are a different animal. Some WDW resorts are actually more expensive than those expiring later on.


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## Dean

bnoble said:


> Something that almost _no one_ does, to the point that I've given up even trying.


No but they should


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## TravelTime

-


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## TravelTime

bnoble said:


> Something that almost _no one_ does, to the point that I've given up even trying.



The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact. 

Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL


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## Cyberc

TravelTime said:


> The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact.
> 
> Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL



To me the opportunity cost is not a factor because if I didn’t spend the money buying a timeshare then I would not have invested the money they would either stay in my bank account(0% interest) for a rainy day or I would have used them on another vacation.


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## Panina

Cost is irrelevant if you can afford it, really want it and will use it.  I chose Key West and Marco Island over DVC because  I ultimately wanted them more then DVC.


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## TravelTime

I used to buy all my vacations on Expedia so I use that as my metric for comparing.


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## bnoble

At the end of the day, the decision of DVC or not-DVC is pretty simple: Do you want to stay in one of the better Disney-owned resorts at least every other year or so for the foreseeable future? If so, buy. If not, don't. If you're not sure, try a vacation both ways and see whether you really like the DVC stay that much more than the non-DVC stay. If so, it doesn't really matter why you liked it---and I've seen as many reasons as there are people who own used to try to justify it to someone else, and vice versa.


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## SpygirlE

One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.


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## Panina

SpygirlE said:


> One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.


So if you want to trade can you get a private rci account to trade?


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## Dean

SpygirlE said:


> One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.





Panina said:


> So if you want to trade can you get a private rci account to trade?


You don't get the discounts, DCL, member events and the like but you do get the RCI, pool hoping and free parking.  The ONLY one that has a financially reasonable consideration is the pass discount.


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## Lisa P

djohn06 said:


> To me, my time is precious.  While I'm walking to my DVC room as the park closes, I'm thinking about the the folks spending 15-20 mins waiting for a shuttle, fighting for spots on the tram or walking to the end of a parking lot, stuck in traffic for another 10-15 minutes, or going thru a separate security gate in the am wasting another 10 minutes.  Meanwhile in 5 - 8 minutes I'm at Boardwalk or Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower in my room.... I'll gladly pay the premium to save 90 minutes everyday in transit.


Only true if you are staying at a walk-to-park location and you are only visiting the walk-to park(s) on that stay.  Ex., if staying at Boardwalk Villas, you cannot claim this for visits to MK or AK.  If staying at AKL, OKW, or SSR, this doesn't apply at all.  We have had very mixed "time" results of waiting for a Disney bus or boat.  Unless visiting MK, we've found it's usually faster for us to drive our car from most DVC resorts.  We do enjoy the boats and monorail but really, most Disney travel between most DVC rooms and most Disney parks is accomplished by bus and it's rarely faster than driving.  Due to Wyn Bonnet Creek's location, it takes about the same amount of time to drive to Disney parks (except MK) as it does from Disney properties.



heathpack said:


> My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
> 1.  People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
> 2.  People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end
> 
> Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back?  No, of course not.  Will some people?  Yes absolutely.


Generally agree, especially regarding *retail* purchasers in the past, which is where the greatest distinction may be made between DVC buyers and other timeshare buyers, IMO.  But before advising a new purchase from Disney, consider *how* the future may differ from past performance.  In the last decade or so, Disney has raised their retail pricing at a faster pace than their competitors.  They may have caught up with what the market is willing to bear, to account for onsite benefits.  When/If they do, recouping monetary outlay will become more difficult in years ahead, for retail buyers - besides the leasehold expiration date approaching as well.  If Disney sales slow due to too-rapid price increases, and the pace of increase slows down, recouping monetary outlay during resale will be tough.

For _*resale*_ purchasers of many timeshares, not just DVC, it's not that hard to get back initial outlay monies either, IMO.  We've recouped our money easily with the buy&sell of DVC points, as well as with the buy&sell of resale Marriott and independent resort weeks.  Our resale (prime red, converted) Wyndham points were super-cheap and have very reasonable/low maint fees.  After 20 years of low cost vacations at high quality resorts (internal and RCI trades), recouping monetary outlay doesn't even cross our minds.  Giving them away or to Ovation would be easy.  All of our adult kids have actually expressed interest in them anyway.  We certainly shared many exciting family adventures and made many wonderful vacation memories together, even after selling DVC.    Sometimes, people forget that there are lots of ways to do this without owning.

I guess it just makes sense to me that Tuggers can say the same about other resale purchases as you've said above about a DVC purchase (if resale, IMO).  My "profit" after reselling would actually be from having more invested in our Roths, 403b, 457, and 401k than we would have budgeted to invest, if we had opted to commit $20K-$30K more than our Wyndham cost us, and paid $500-$1,500 more in annual maint fees for the DVC 2BRs our family needed.  Over the years, we adjusted payroll deductions according to what we could manage, and we considered our monthly maintenance fees as part of our fixed expenses.  It would have been different if our maint fees were higher or if we were saving for a large DVC purchase or  paying a DVC loan.

Truthfully, as we plan to take grandkids to Orlando in future years as they get bigger, we certainly have no plans to get rid of our Wyndham points contracts and we would not if we currently had a DVC points contracts either.  We expect more of a draw to Orlando again.  But if we had a commitment with higher maint fees, it might bother us more as we get closer to retirement.  Disney vacations are pretty expensive, not just for the lodging, so lower maint fees are great.  It's also really nice for us to have very little sunk cost, where it makes sense to just keep what we have - no regrets about keeping and not selling now.


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## Dean

TravelTime said:


> The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact.
> 
> Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL


I'd agree on small things but not for a luxury purchase like DVC unless one has enough money not to worry about any costs.  It is one factor but it's part of being financially responsible.  Same answer for an automobile which can be more of a need than a timeshare.  



Cyberc said:


> To me the opportunity cost is not a factor because if I didn’t spend the money buying a timeshare then I would not have invested the money they would either stay in my bank account(0% interest) for a rainy day or I would have used them on another vacation.


If it's resources you have actually earmarked for discretionary spending, I'd agree to a point.  Still, I'd see it as part of financially responsibility.  I want to be a good steward of the things I've been given to manage.  



Panina said:


> Cost is irrelevant if you can afford it, really want it and will use it.  I chose Key West and Marco Island over DVC because  I ultimately wanted them more then DVC.


In addition to the above thoughts, I'd agree only if one has the money to simply throw away and generally they don't buy timeshares.  I doubt you actually mean it as many do when they post this thought.  Often when people post this thought it means they just want it and don't want to hear anything that causes them to not get it.  Ultimately it often means they can't really afford it but think they can make the payments.  I see it a lot more often with DVC than I do other timeshares.  My definition of being able to afford it is paying cash and my core definition includes no consumer debt.


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## ljmiii

cbyrne1174 said:


> I'm asking because I'm considering DVC for its theming for my kids, but that price tag is insane when you compare it to Wyndham!


My three questions for anyone considering buying DVC are:

First, do you plan on visiting WDW at least every other year for at least the next 10 years?
....If not, you are probably better off renting instead of buying.
Second, can you plan at least 7 and ideally 11 months in advance?
....If not, you need to be some combination of flexible in terms of when you can go, willing to stay in any size villa, and willing to stay in any WDW resort.
Third, (and perhaps most important) Do you really prefer staying on property?
....If not, there are far more inexpensive ways to visit WDW.

For us buying DVC has been an incredible boon. We've enjoyed many vacations over the years with our kids and parents. By staying at BCV and BLT we've been able to walk to most parks. By staying on property we've enjoyed 60 day + length of stay fastpasses and 180 day + length of stay dining - essential if you are limited to visiting WDW during school vacations. Our MFs have been a fraction of the price of renting...much less booking direct. We've saved lots of money on tickets, food, and beverages from our DVC discounts. And perhaps best of all our points have appreciated in value over 50% since we bought.

None of which answers the question of whether or not DVC is right for you. But it has been an emotional and financial success story for us.


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## TravelTime

I think perhaps we should be more easy going with the comparisons between timeshare companies. There is something for everyone. Also, some people are not so anal about analyzing their purchases down to the penny. So let's not criticize people who are fine with emotional purchases _and_ can afford it. I have made my share of dumb purchases, but always with cash that I did not otherwise need. One time, I was depressed over a break up when I was still single - over 20 years ago - and I bought a brand new BMW. LOL But I put down a huge down payment (about 50%) and could have paid it off anytime. In fact, I did pay it off before the loan ended. Owned it for 10 years until the repairs cost more than the residual value of the car. Then I got a new BMW! But now I have gotten frugal and drive an Acura SUV, also purchased brand new. I think Tuggers would see all my car purchases to be a waste of money but there is a lot of emotional value to me in buying brand new cars. Now we own a lot of timeshares, all paid off with cash. Our MFs are high but a lot less than we used to spend on vacations. We will probably keep Disney even though the family dynamics changed. It will help me relax and be more playful, I hope.


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## Dean

TravelTime said:


> I think perhaps we should be more easy going with the comparisons between timeshare companies. There is something for everyone. Also, some people are not so anal about analyzing their purchases down to the penny. So let's not criticize people who are fine with emotional purchases _and_ can afford it. I have made my share of dumb purchases, but always with cash that I did not otherwise need. One time, I was depressed over a break up when I was still single - over 20 years ago - and I bought a brand new BMW. LOL But I put down a huge down payment (about 50%) and could have paid it off anytime. In fact, I did pay it off before the loan ended. Owned it for 10 years until the repairs cost more than the residual value of the car. Then I got a new BMW! But now I have gotten frugal and drive an Acura SUV.


We've all made mistakes but they were just that, mistakes and some worse than others.  Personally I'd rather be clear on what's a good purchase vs a bad one looked at on the objective side so as to be clear, all I can add is my opinion.  To be unclear is to be unkind IMO.  Each person will then have to analyze their personal information and make their own decisions.  I don't want paralysis of analysis but I want people to understand that there are good choices and bad choices and there's often a fairly clear division.  I realize that financial responsibility and delayed gratification are not popular in todays world, all the more reason to communicate the issues IMO.


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## djohn06

Lisa P said:


> Only true if you are staying at a walk-to-park location and you are only visiting the walk-to park(s) on that stay.  Ex., if staying at Boardwalk Villas, you cannot claim this for visits to MK or AK.  If staying at AKL, OKW, or SSR, this doesn't apply at all.  We have had very mixed "time" results of waiting for a Disney bus or boat.  Unless visiting MK, we've found it's usually faster for us to drive our car from most DVC resorts.  We do enjoy the boats and monorail but really, most Disney travel between most DVC rooms and most Disney parks is accomplished by bus and it's rarely faster than driving.  Due to Wyn Bonnet Creek's location, it takes about the same amount of time to drive to Disney parks (except MK) as it does from Disney properties.




Well I park hop, so if I start and end my day at the same MK or Epcot resort that I'm staying all the above is true.

Sometimes it is quicker to drive to MK property.  It just depends on how many cars are leaving the lot when you leave at the end of the day.  We like to stay for fireworks so it gets really busy upon exiting if I drive to a park.

If you drive from Bonnett creek, the parking fees add up quickly if you don't have a season pass, so be careful.  Better off staying at AKL and avoiding all the off site fees.


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## TravelTime

djohn06 said:


> Well I park hop, so if I start and end my day at the same MK or Epcot resort that I'm staying all the above is true.
> 
> Sometimes it is quicker to drive to MK property.  It just depends on how many cars are leaving the lot when you leave at the end of the day.  We like to stay for fireworks so it gets really busy upon exiting if I drive to a park.
> 
> If you drive from Bonnett creek, the parking fees add up quickly if you don't have a season pass, so be careful.  Better off staying at AKL and avoiding all the off site fees.



We park hop and resort hop too! When we visited WDW in August, we stayed at three onsite resorts. Disney makes moving between onsite resorts very easy. We are planning another visit next Spring and will be doing another split stay. We absolutely prefer to not rent a car. Car rentals in Orlando are very expensive, like Hawaii or even more. So for folks who are doing a detailed analysis, you can factor in the car rental savings. I was looking at the parking lot and telling my DH I was so glad we did not need to deal with the parking shuttle, traffic and parking so far away. Plus it is really nice to take a vacation and have everything handled including transportation from the airport, between resorts and to/from the parks. In fact, we found the bus system at AK to be extremely efficient and fast. I liked it better than the monorail.


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## famy27

Other things I love about DVC/onsite:


Extra Magic Hours, particularly at night. We love a good 2:00 or 3:00 am park close. You can get on everything with no wait. 
I don't have to lug a car seat/booster on the plane or rent one. (Yes, I have small child and stay at the parks until 2:00 am. She's a late night party animal.) 
I don't have to drive. I deal with traffic and crazy drivers every day. Vacation for me is not having to deal with that nonsense.
Walking to or from the parks may not save a ton of time, but it saves my sanity. Taking a leisurely stroll to BCV after Illuminations is my idea of a great way to end the night, with a stop on a bench to eat some caramels from Germany. 
We've done several member parties, and we've loved all of them. We also stop in the lounge at EPCOT for snacks and drinks when we can. We're lucky enough to be grandfathered in to get the membership benefits, but if we weren't, I would 100% buy the 75 points from Disney to get them. It might not make the most financial sense, but it would make everyone in my family happy, so it would be worth it to me. Just today, my 12 year old told me how much she loves Disney and how it's her happy place. She's too cool for lots of stuff now, but she assures me that she'll never be too cool for Disney.


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## TravelTime

I think what many people are mentioning is the emotional connection and the non-monetary benefits they get from DVC. I think that is very important. Life is not about money and savings. Being a good steward of our blessings is critical but at some point, if we have worked really hard, it is time to splurge without worrying. If that is on DVC, or MVC, or vacations, a home, a car or other things, so be it. You only live once.


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## Panina

TravelTime said:


> I think what many people are mentioning is the emotional connection and the non-monetary benefits they get from DVC. I think that is very important. Life is not about money and savings. Being a good steward of our blessings is critical but at some point, if we have worked really hard, it is time to splurge without worrying. If that is on DVC, or MVC, or vacations, a home, a car or other things, so be it. You only live once.


Like, like, like, like, like.....“You only live once”. Live life to your fullest as tomorrow is never guaranteed.


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## frank808

Jan M. said:


> My husband was asking me if DVC has changed or if it is still 20-30 year ownerships, not lifetime?





heathpack said:


> It’s always been 60 years.


It is actually 50 year right to use.  Resorts expiring in 2042, 2054, 2057, 2060, etc. depending on when they opened.  You donot get 50 years from when you purchase points, unless you bought in first year of resort opening.  You only get remaining years until the RTU for the resort expires. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Dean

frank808 said:


> It is actually 50 year right to use.  Resorts expiring in 2042, 2054, 2057, 2060, etc. depending on when they opened.  You donot get 50 years from when you purchase points, unless you bought in first year of resort opening.  You only get remaining years until the RTU for the resort expires.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Frank, the resorts following OKW (then just called Disney Vacation Club) kept the same RTU expiration date (BWV, VB, HH, VWL & BCV) of 1/31/42.  So they all had a shorter than 50 year term when they started selling.  SSR was the first to reset to a new 50 years.  Since then all have had a new 50 year term except if you want to count the THV as new since it was added to SSR and thus the same expiration date.  OKW has since been extended an extra 15 years but roughly 2/3 of the members gave up the rights to that additional 15 years.  The possibility of extensions are a totally new thread that might go on for years.


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## Eli Mairs

Dean said:


> OKW has since been extended an extra 15 years but roughly 2/3 of the members gave up the rights to that additional 15 years.  The possibility of extensions are a totally new thread that might go on for years.



This is correct. We became members at the beginning, in 1992.
We were offered the option of extending our membership several years ago, but declined.
We are happy about the 2042 expiration, as we will be very old, if we live that long, and do not want our children to inherit an obligation.
We have had many wonderful DVC vacations over the years - from when our kids were young, and now with our grandchildren. Just finished a one week stay with the whole family, in a grand villa at OKW, last week.


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## TravelTime

If someone does not want to leave their timeshares to their kids, can’t they just keep it out of the will and not put their children’s name down as a beneficiary? What would happen to the timeshares if it is not left to anyone?


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## Dean

TravelTime said:


> If someone does not want to leave their timeshares to their kids, can’t they just keep it out of the will and not put their children’s name down as a beneficiary? What would happen to the timeshares if it is not left to anyone?


No, the estate would still be responsible for the costs.  The executor would have to try to dispose of it or ask the judge to remove it from the estate.  Unless there were no assets and everyone just walked away, this would not be possible.  What I've been told is that judges tend to be willing to remove it from the estate once a year or more has passed with reasonable attempts at disposing of the timeshare.  I'm sure it's case by case though.


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## EVGUY2020

I'm jumping in very late in this conversation, but earlier in the thread someone wrote that their Wyndham contract at Bonnet Creek was virtually FREE, and why would they pay for DVC... 
I don't understand that, and don't quite agree,  I currently have the opportunity to take over a contract from my wife's elderly recently-widowed aunt, virtually free (just transfer the deed), but when I inquired further, there are costs to convert her week to points, those points would not get much at Bonnet Creek, AND there is a compulsory purchase of developers points to the tune of $12K. 
I can buy enough points through DVC resale at about $10K to get a week at most of their DVC resorts.  And since I already own at DVC, I am familiar, comfortable, and happy with their system.  
If I could have picked up the wife's aunt's contract without the mandatory developers points purchase it would have been worth it.  
I still don't understand how the previous post was saying Wyndham was virtually free ??


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## bnoble

You have an unconverted fixed week. That's a very different beast from a Wyndham deed (or Club Wyndham contract) that is already in Points.


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## vacationhopeful

Election Week in November is also called "Jersey Week" at WDW .... yes, it really is when EVERYONE seems to be from the Garden State of New Jersey.

*WHY? *The New Jersey Public School system is closed for Election Day on Tuesday .. and then closed again on that week's Thursday & Friday. Kids have no school ... NJ families skip the 2 ophan school days (a Monday and a Wednesday) to take the family to WDW. Been there ... but the only problem is, those Eagles football jerseys and Gaints or Rangers jerseys ... they were being WORN by those teams' New Jersey fans.


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## paxsarah

EVGUY2020 said:


> If I could have picked up the wife's aunt's contract without the mandatory developers points purchase it would have been worth it.
> I still don't understand how the previous post was saying Wyndham was virtually free ??



Wyndham points on the resale market range from inexpensive (especially in comparison to DVC) to free. Yes, it's much more expensive to convert a fixed Wyndham week to points (going through Wyndham corporate) than it would be simply to give away or return that week to Wyndham, then buy a points contract on the resale market. That's not really the question you asked on your thread about that in the Wyndham forum, so it may not have been clear in our answers.


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