# Re-sale prices



## Peteyp97 (Nov 28, 2009)

I know there is a thread or a list somewhere on here. I have been working as a travel agent for the last 3 years now and with a college coming up next year and a wedding the following year, I think I am going to sell my Aruba TS.
Somewhere on here there is a listing (I think, but I may be dreaming) of what people have been paying for re-sale units. Can someone direct me to it?
With the Travel agency I am working with, we basically get to travel almost for free now, so I really don't need the unit now.
Also--if I were to sell, in your opinions, where is the best place to list it--of course after TUG!!


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## jlee2070 (Nov 28, 2009)

Suggest you look at Redweek.com or myresortnetwork.com.


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## FlyerBobcat (Nov 28, 2009)

For Marriott resorts, under the Sales History tab for each resort on TUG -- you should find a mostly-ebay history of sales.

For example, if you go to Marriott's Aruba Surf Club and then select the Sales History tab, you will see over a dozen entries.

Keep in mind that ebay sales do not necessarily reflect the average sales prices for the traditional resale market....  But it is useful / interesting data.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 28, 2009)

You may want to try dioxide's resale site as follows:



http://dioxide45.tripod.com/rofr.html




This is where one can post what they pay for a week.

Hope this helps.


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## JimC (Nov 29, 2009)

Seth Nock is a good broker if you want to go that route.


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## Peteyp97 (Dec 8, 2009)

*Resale prices*

The Dioxide site doesn't really have recent ones. Anyone else have any other ideas? I want to price this to sell quickly so I want to make it fair.
Will Seth give me an idea or will he basically do it if I am willing to list it with him?


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## Beverley (Dec 9, 2009)

Seth will tell you what he honestly thinks it will sell for whether you list it with him or not.  He is a very reputable guy.

Beverley


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## Dan_D (Dec 24, 2009)

*Resale*

Petey .... I own several timeshares, a couple were bought from Seth.  In my opinion, he is the most honest and trustworthy guy in the business.  All info was accurate, in detail, and there were no surprises.  His closings were a breeze.


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## m61376 (Dec 24, 2009)

As a buyer I felt that Seth's prices were unrealistic and he was dismissive when I wanted to purchase at a lower price. In both instances my market evaluation was reasonable and I did purchase elsewhere, so he was off.

I, too, have only heard positive comments about him, but thought my experiences were germane especially since the OP is discussing selling his Aruba unit and my experiences were for the Surf Club.


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## laurac260 (Dec 27, 2009)

m61376 said:


> As a buyer I felt that Seth's prices were unrealistic and he was dismissive when I wanted to purchase at a lower price. In both instances my market evaluation was reasonable and I did purchase elsewhere, so he was off.
> 
> I, too, have only heard positive comments about him, but thought my experiences were germane especially since the OP is discussing selling his Aruba unit and my experiences were for the Surf Club.



I have heard nothing but positives about Seth.  Tried to do biz with him when we purchased, but the guy's response time either lax, or nonexistent, when I dealt with him.  I thought Michelle Donato was much quicker to respond.  Either way I ended up buying on my own anyway, got a better price than going thru a broker.  If I needed to sell I think I'd try to do it on my own first.


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## timeos2 (Dec 27, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> I have heard nothing but positives about Seth.  Tried to do biz with him when we purchased, but the guy's response time either lax, or nonexistent, when I dealt with him.  I thought Michelle Donato was much quicker to respond.  Either way I ended up buying on my own anyway, got a better price than going thru a broker.  If I needed to sell I think I'd try to do it on my own first.



Seth is a class act and knows his business. However he has been, IMO, too slow to fully realize the seismic shift in the market the recent economy has imposed on the timeshare landscape. Maybe a case of old ways die hard.  The old days of needing to "meet ROFR" are long gone - today you may wish to pay a premium to work with a reliable broker but it is no longer necessary to play the ROFR or minimum pricing game regardless of the resort or brand name you may want.


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## m61376 (Dec 27, 2009)

My comments weren't intended to malign him- just that, at least in my experience, both in '06 when I purchased and then last year he overestimated the market. A few years ago he told me my price was unrealistic and last year, after Marriott had stopped exercising ROFR, he insisted that the lower selling prices I was seeing would be nabbed by ROFR. 

I would hesitate to use him as a barometer of the market if I was anxious to sell. I think Shelley from Transactionrealty.com, among others, has a much better grasp of current pricing


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## taffy19 (Dec 27, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> For Marriott resorts, under the Sales History tab for each resort on TUG -- you should find a mostly-ebay history of sales.
> 
> For example, if you go to Marriott's Aruba Surf Club and then select the Sales History tab, you will see over a dozen entries.
> 
> Keep in mind that ebay sales do not necessarily reflect the average sales prices for the traditional resale market.... But it is useful / interesting data.


I had a look at the link you posted and never knew this existed.  Who is keeping this up as I see many imports too from brokers. 

I guess, there is a lot of data behind the scene (for members only) like reviews, etc. that I never see because we do not exchange. The reviews should be very handy if you want to make an exchange.


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## m61376 (Dec 28, 2009)

Tom's postings have been great! Just keep in mind that, as he said, Ebay sales are only one piece of the market, and buyers need to realize that not all Ebay sales come to fruition.

In the case of the SC sales, it happened that for some unknown reason over a period of several months redweek4less had a large number of Gold SC units. It was very strange because in the entire year before I only saw maybe three or so, and all of a sudden they kept on listing one after another for awhile. While I am sure the depressed prices were a reflection of the overall market, the overabundance of the listings seem to depress the prices further and I saw a reflection in private listings as well. Platinum prices softened a little in this market but still remain high (and in fact are among the few resorts not to have suffered substantial decreases), so I am not sure if the relative larger decrease in Gold prices is at least in part a reflection of the temporary saturation of the market with the Ebay units. Of course, although Aruba is a popular year-round destination, people looking for winter escapes are always willing to pay a premium so that may account for the relative stability of Platinum prices. Of course it is just my impression, but it really seemed that private sale listings didn't drop until Redweek4less flooded the market. It will be interesting to see if the prices creep back up now that the Ebay supply has dried up.

I don't know how many of those listings actually closed; I know there was a fabulous deal on a 3BR which was too good to be true and, characteristic of this reseller, the buyer had to fight to get her money refunded from what turned out to be a bogus listing.

Of course, even if the deals never come to fruition the listings information are great bargaining tools for prospective buyers. Several Tuggers have used final Ebay auction prices in their negotiations with private sellers and even with resale brokers, so especially in this climate where ROFR is essentially a non-issue the Ebay auction prices are a big factor.


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## FlyerBobcat (Dec 28, 2009)

iconnections said:


> I had a look at the link you posted and never knew this existed.  Who is keeping this up as I see many imports too from brokers.
> 
> I guess, there is a lot of data behind the scene (for members only) like reviews, etc. that I never see because we do not exchange. The reviews should be very handy if you want to make an exchange.



I have been entering Marriott ebay sales data for nearly a year, but I find myself struggling to keep up with the ebay tracking and TUG data entry.  I sorta' feel it might not be worth my time, since I feel many people do not know about this data source (as indicated in the reply to my postingt).  I earlier worked with Brian to ask that this get a more prominent place --- or a link with an explanation on how to navigate to the sales history database --- but I still feel most don't know about it...


(Just back from a Christmas week vacation (non-Timeshare) in Riviera Maya.  Boy, what a bargain you can get now.... Great family vacation...)


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## mwwich (Dec 28, 2009)

_


FlyerBobcat said:



			I have been entering Marriott ebay sales data for nearly a year, but I find myself struggling to keep up with the ebay tracking and TUG data entry.  I sorta' feel it might not be worth my time, since I feel many people do not know about this data source (as indicated in the reply to my postingt).  I earlier worked with Brian to ask that this get a more prominent place --- or a link with an explanation on how to navigate to the sales history database --- but I still feel most don't know about it...
		
Click to expand...

_
As someone who has been researching a resale purchase, I do appreciate the posting of resale prices, thanks for what you do.  Not sure how to make them easier to find, I didn't find it difficult but then again "difficult" is a relative term.  I certainly have my challenges finding info online at times....


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## kathleenpeyer (Dec 28, 2009)

*Resales*

We recently bought a Marriott Summit Watch Platinum week through Shelly at Transaction Realty and she did a dynamite job for us. Got the seller to negotiate a better price and was so professional about keeping us up to date every step of the way. Shelly is very thorough, honest and no nonsense in her attention to detail and after the excellent experience we've had with her, I don't think I'd use anyone else for a TS resale.


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## DanCali (Dec 28, 2009)

m61376 said:


> My comments weren't intended to malign him- just that, at least in my experience, both in '06 when I purchased and then last year he overestimated the market. A few years ago he told me my price was unrealistic and last year, after Marriott had stopped exercising ROFR, he insisted that the lower selling prices I was seeing would be nabbed by ROFR.
> 
> I would hesitate to use him as a barometer of the market if I was anxious to sell. I think Shelley from Transactionrealty.com, among others, has a much better grasp of current pricing



Any broker out there is paid a commission which is typically a percentage of the sales price (subject to some minimum). As such they will always have a conflict of interest in obtaining a buyer the lowest price. They do provide a service, peace of mind, etc and that can be valuable to many buyers, including myself, but buying through a broker is rarely the best way to obtain the lowest price.

Looking at specific Marriott examples, TransAction Realty current lists two NCV Platinum properties for $14.5K and one for $16.9K. This is a big resort with so resales come up all the time and pricing is pretty transparent. Feel free to compare with live and completed eBay auctions.


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## m61376 (Dec 28, 2009)

DanCali said:


> Any broker out there is paid a commission which is typically a percentage of the sales price (subject to some minimum). As such they will always have a conflict of interest in obtaining a buyer the lowest price. They do provide a service, peace of mind, etc and that can be valuable to many buyers, including myself, but buying through a broker is rarely the best way to obtain the lowest price.
> 
> Looking at specific Marriott examples, TransAction Realty current lists two NCV Platinum properties for $14.5K and one for $16.9K. This is a big resort with so resales come up all the time and pricing is pretty transparent. Feel free to compare with live and completed eBay auctions.



That's true, but the difference is that if you contact Shelley with a price point which reflects the general market overall she will work with you to find a seller that is more flexible rather than dismissing you as a potential client and telling you that you'll never find what you want at the price you are suggesting.

Of course all brokers will try to sell at the highest price the buyer is willing to pay. A good broker will try to find something for a seller at the price they are looking to pay (as long as it is reasonable, even if on the low end of the market).


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## DanCali (Dec 28, 2009)

m61376 said:


> That's true, but the difference is that if you contact Shelley with a price point which reflects the general market overall she will work with you to find a seller that is more flexible rather than dismissing you as a potential client and telling you that you'll never find what you want at the price you are suggesting.



Did she actually find you something at the price you wanted, or did she just put you on her waiting list and tell you she will contact you if she finds anything? I'm asking because I've actually had a different experience with her. I'd rather not go into too much specific detail in terms of location and prices, but here is the gist of it...

I was looking for a specific property/unit/season and am pretty aware of the eBay resale prices for that resort and season. Shelley had a property at that resort listed for 50% more than eBay prices. I called her to see how firm the owner was and got the spiel about "prices holding up at that resort", "it'll sell at the price he's asking for" etc. She dismissed the recent eBay prices (which she seemed aware of) because, according to her, sellers don't know what they are selling on eBay so you don't know if what is listed is what you are getting. Of course looking at an estoppel solves that, but the argument was that the auction I saw may not have been for what I was looking for. She mentioned that "good" prices for that resort/unit/season were about 25% more than the eBay price I quoted but she didn'tknow if her seller would go that "low". I told her that, for my peace of mind, I was willing to pay about 10% more than the eBay price if I were to go through a broker (which is not a small dollar amount for this resort) and never heard back from her. She didn't offer to even speak to the seller because she said he turned down an offer much higher than mine (I do believe her on that - but is the seller basing his decisions on her advice?).

In the meantime, I found a different seller who sold me the same property/unit/season for less than the lowest eBay prices I've seen. And that was very close to his initial asking price so I didn't bargain hard or anything like that. It worked out even better on my end... However, Shelley's seller's property is still listed on her website several months later (for about 10%-15% less than it was when I spoke with her).

This is just one observation, but in my case (i) she didn't help me at all and (ii) I'm not sure she did right by her seller. However, she did strike me as very professional and knowledgable, and I know many tuggers rave about her service. I have to assume there is a good reason for that.


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## RandR (Dec 28, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> I have been entering Marriott ebay sales data for nearly a year, but I find myself struggling to keep up with the ebay tracking and TUG data entry.  I sorta' feel it might not be worth my time, since I feel many people do not know about this data source (as indicated in the reply to my postingt).  I earlier worked with Brian to ask that this get a more prominent place --- or a link with an explanation on how to navigate to the sales history database --- but I still feel most don't know about it...
> 
> 
> (Just back from a Christmas week vacation (non-Timeshare) in Riviera Maya.  Boy, what a bargain you can get now.... Great family vacation...)



I for one did get something out of the data that you post and continue to use it.  I never knew who posted it so now that I know I would like to thank you.  Honestly, if someone is looking to buy a ts and is doing complete research, they will find your database.


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## GaryDouglas (Dec 29, 2009)

DanCali said:


> Any broker out there is paid a commission which is typically a percentage of the sales price (subject to some minimum).


 
This may be true for most brokers, but not with Shelley. If my dealings with her were representive, she charges a set amount based upon set value ranges. If the sale goes lower on a lower range unit, she still makes the same amount. So It's my opinion that she wins either way and there is no downside for her to go lower on a specific sale.

I think what you are seeing here is that there are approximately three types of 'fair value' for a property based upon how knowledgable the buyer is. You have developer value, resale value through a broker, and desperation sale value on eBay, etc.

Shelley is working with sellers that want to sell to buyers that are savey enough to buy resale, but are not knowledgable about getting the lowest possible price. So it makes sense to me that the buyer you refer to is basing their decision on wanting to sell at the range that brokers tend to sell at, which Shelley would naturally try to reinforce. 

IMO, whether you are a buyer or seller, figure out which of the three categories you are in and then go for it.


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## m61376 (Dec 29, 2009)

DanCali-to answer your question, when I bought my first unit 3 years ago after researching the market I had a price point in mind. I contacted just about every listing and many brokers, almost all of whom implicated that I was crazy wrt pricing and were dismissive. The only two that weren't were Jessica from Timesharing2000.com and Shelley.

I actually got an unbelievable deal through Jessica which, unfortunately, was in a different market and Marriott nabbed it. Realistically, I knew that it was unlikely to be repeated (different times- not as many desperate sellers and Marriott was buying the occasional steal), so I continued to look at a low end but what I considered realistic price point. Shelley did try to convince me that it would be difficult to find, but continued to be responsive to my e-mails and had several offers for me over the course of a few months (as did Jessica). Every other broker, including Seth, were simply dismissive. Admittedly, there were several offers that she tried to push that were higher (but that's her job, after all, isn't it?) but I held my ground and she did find me what I wanted only a few hundred dollars more than my price point.

While today's prices are a little lower (thankfully, not too drastically different) at the time I felt I got a very good deal. 

I have also recommended her to several people here and many have subsequently bought and had similar experiences. While she may not have been successful in your case, it is not fair to assume that she misled her seller either. At the same time I bought my unit, other sellers wanted thousands more. Brokers can only sell at a price that their sellers are willing to sell at. 

So while I agree that she tries to convince the buyer to up their price (as does every broker), she was one of the few who continued to look for something even at a price she felt was somewhat unrealistic. It seems to me to all be part of the buyer-seller game. She was one of the few who were willing to work with a buyer who was knowledgeable about the lower values on Ebay, but preferred to buy through a non Ebay venue.

Ebay, in a sense, eliminates that game, but feel that it doesn't always reflect a fair market value. In many cases it is the luck of the draw- who happens to be looking/bidding at a given time. How many auctions for other items do you see where people get caught up in the auction itself and the price goes for higher than you can buy it through regular retail channels, or where there is a Buy it Now listing concurrently for the same item at a lower price but people keep on upping the bid? So while Ebay prices are a great source and are useful as a bargaining tool, savvy buyers need to be aware that closed Ebay auctions may or may not reflect a true pricing- the deal may never close, the item may not be as advertised, and/or it may be an aberration. Ebay also carries an inherent risk and frequently there is aggravation to at least some degree, more so with certain sellers. Personally, I would have to pay at least 10% less to buy through Ebay, and even then I would be wary. 

There are those occasional "steals" on Ebay- perhaps due to an overlooked auction for some reason, the timing, or who knows why- and a savvy buyer who is not risk adverse can do very well. Last year Terry took a few chances which turned out to be great choices; I was gun shy and lost out on a few potentially great deals. In this market, there are a lot of desperate sellers and fewer anxious buyers- a combination which is ripe for some great deals.


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## DanCali (Dec 29, 2009)

m61376: Thanks for sharing your experience.

I don't necessarily think she misled the seller in my case and that is not what I meant to imply. I truly think she thought she could sell it for a higher price, and I also believe the seller already declined higher offers. However, it is possible that the number a seller may have in mind is influenced by a broker. Moreover, some brokers (not necessarily her) may tell a seller an unrealistic number just to obtain the business. My main observations about her service to that particular seller were that: 

(i) She did not bring my offer to the seller or give him a chance to counter. Even if she had permission to decline all offers below a certain number, updating a seller on any offer (however low it may be) is another way to gauge the market. She may or may not have done that subsequently - I don't know...

(ii) In my particular case, I think she misgauged the value of the property or, rather, the demand for that property at that price. As I mentioned previously, they did end up lowering the price to a number that if in fact the seller had declined offers "much higher than mine" then he may have been better off taking those offers or at least trying to counter mine. As you point out, this could very well be just the seller's fault if he had a particular number in his mind and she actually tried to get him to take those offers.

As for eBay, yes there are abberations, but with enough observations within a relatively short time frame the "noise" gets washed out and you usually get a pretty clear picture.

Overall, I would not have a problem trying to use her again to try to find a property I wanted for the price I wanted (I'd pay up to 10% above eBay for my peace of mind), but it's clear to me there is an inherent conflict there so I won't be too disappointed if it didn't work out. Also, I recently made quite a few changes in my portfolio so for now I'm pretty much done...


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## taffy19 (Dec 29, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> I have been entering Marriott ebay sales data for nearly a year, but I find myself struggling to keep up with the ebay tracking and TUG data entry. I sorta' feel it might not be worth my time, since I feel many people do not know about this data source (as indicated in the reply to my postingt). I earlier worked with Brian to ask that this get a more prominent place --- or a link with an explanation on how to navigate to the sales history database --- but I still feel most don't know about it...


Since there are so many Marriott resorts listed, why not put a sticky at the top of the Marriott board so people are aware of it. Only members can access that data so more members may join TUG because of it.

Maybe Dave will read it and do it for you. This is a very nice service to the Marriott community here because it must take you time to get the information from eBay and then enter it here in the database.


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## FlyerBobcat (Dec 29, 2009)

mwwich said:


> As someone who has been researching a resale purchase, I do appreciate the posting of resale prices, thanks for what you do.  Not sure how to make them easier to find, I didn't find it difficult but then again "difficult" is a relative term.  I certainly have my challenges finding info online at times....



Thanks.....


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## FlyerBobcat (Dec 29, 2009)

iconnections said:


> Since there are so many Marriott resorts listed, why not put a sticky at the top of the Marriott board so people are aware of it. Only members can access that data so more members may join TUG because of it.
> 
> Maybe Dave will read it and do it for you. This is a very nice service to the Marriott community here because it must take you time to get the information from eBay and then enter it here in the database.


Yep... that's one of the reasons I so behind....


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## m61376 (Dec 29, 2009)

Tom-
But you should know that your hard work is appreciated!


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## kedler (Dec 30, 2009)

*Thanks Tom!*

Your data and hard work is very appreciated because it helped me nab a good deal on a Barony Beach unit on eBay that is now closed and I'm waiting for Marriott to add it to my account!! Thanks!!

Karen


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## FlyerBobcat (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks for the nice comments.  

*Tip*:  Once you select the Sales History tab for a given Marriott resort, if the most recent data is not at the top of the list, select/click the column header "Date of Sale" to sort the list that way.  (Note: Sometimes I need to click it twice.)


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## laurac260 (Dec 30, 2009)

brokers need to eat, just like I do.  And in this market, working for commission has gotta be pretty tough.

When we were looking to buy, a broker we were working with (does not matter the name, really), told us "you'll never get a Platinum Grande Ocean oceanside for less than $23,000.  Certainly not for $20,000.".  Well, what did I know?   I knew this.  $20,000 was the MOST I wanted to pay.  I approached a seller I saw on Redweek who was asking $24,900.  I sent him a message and said, I would be willing to buy your timeshare for $20,000.  We are ready to buy now.  Without any hesitation he said ok.   

Of course I wonder if I could have gotten less,   Don't we always wonder that?   

I don't know if the reason the broker said what they said was because they had lost touch with what the true market condition was, or if they were just hoping that we didn't know any better.  I guess it doesn't really matter what the reason was.


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## natstr (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm (still -- sigh) in escrow for for Desert Springs Villa I that I bought through Ebay this fall -- As we were looking to purchase a Marriott resale I found the database of sales prices for each resort extremely helpful -- comparing value among resorts, knowing what to be satisfied with in a final purchase price, etc.

So more than definitely thank you for posting this information and helping me make a much better, informed decision!

And for what it's worth, I didn't find it too hard to find the information.

Paul


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## FlyerBobcat (Dec 30, 2009)

natstr said:


> I'm (still -- sigh) in escrow for for Desert Springs Villa I that I bought through Ebay this fall -- As we were looking to purchase a Marriott resale I found the database of sales prices for each resort extremely helpful -- comparing value among resorts, knowing what to be satisfied with in a final purchase price, etc.
> 
> So more than definitely thank you for posting this information and helping me make a much better, informed decision!
> 
> ...



It's good to hear that you don't see it as hard-to-find.  One of my concerns is that if you go to: http://tug2.com you'll find a section called _Other TUG member only features_.  In that section is a link called _Sales History Database_ that goes to some outdated database....

I'll continue chugging along.....  I added about 10 or so more entries earlier today...


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