# At Polo Towers now - lounge closed?



## cluemeister (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm at Polo Towers, and the door to the 19th floor lounge has been closed for two nights.  Thinking they closed early, (I went by the lounge late), I called the front desk and was told the lounge is closed (as in not ever open), and they don't know what they're going to do with it.

Anybody else know anything about this?  I will be contacting customer service this morning for more details/confirmation.

It's seems odd to close the lounge before you have a plan of what you're going to do with it!


----------



## kapish (Apr 14, 2006)

*It doesn't surprise me ...*

_I am not an owner at Polo Towers, nor I have ever stayed there. Having said that..._

I was at the Polo Towers lounge on a Saturday night in March. There were very few people in there- may be about 6 people, including the bartender. I wondered how they could afford to keep that place in service with so few customers...


----------



## ljane (Apr 14, 2006)

Cluemeister,
Have you been able to find out any answers to the question we gave you to ask while at Polo Towers?
Ljane


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: questions*

Hello ljane (and others),

I have done some research on the questions, and have a few answers, but not enough answers.  First of all, customer service is not very helpful with these questions.  They have little to no knowledge.  I think I'm going to have to contact a board member to get more information.

#1  Who owns Hawaiian Marketplace?  - I actually went to the registry of deeds this morning, and it appears (key word) that Three Sticks LLC, aka Diamond Resorts owns both lots, the lot the tower sits on, and the lot HMP sits on.  I did not find a sale of HMP in 1999, merely a transfer of ownership from Bank America to Diamond Resorts.  

In addition, I looked at a copy of my deed, and we timeshare owners definitely own at least a) the land PT's sits on, b) right of way to LV Blvd, and c) a comfort, convenience and parking easement on the HMP lot.  These are on the deed, so they cannot be taken away.  

I may know just enough to be dangerous,  but I don't think the property has been sold.  Again, more research is needed.

#2  Can a building be built in front of PT's?  - I have no idea. We do have a deeded right of way to the strip, so no one could build across that right of way without going over the top of it.  But this is Vegas, so anything could happen!

#3 Have any of the rooms been updated? - We're staying on the 19th floor facing south (3 nights), and that suite has not been updated.  The furniture is the original design, but it doesn't appear to be 13 years old.  Probably replaced out of inventory.  Customer service said no units had been updated other than the ones that were done intentionally, i.e. 17th and 18th floor.

We did tour a model on the 18th floor, which was odd beause I thought the model was on the second floor.  Although the changes are mostly cosmetic, they are very nice. In my opinion, turns the timeshare from a 5 to a solid 8.  Of course you're not going to get a washer/dryer, or a tiled shower for two, or a jacuzzi tub, but the upgrades are substantial and make the timeshare much nicer.  I asked the customer service rep about the ambitious upgrade schedule, (two weeks per floor), and was told it was going to take 3 weeks per floor.  She did not have solid numbers on the voting so far.  I did hear that if the vote didn't pass, the board was going to vote to raise mf's in steps.  If the SA doesn't pass, we will definitely sell our unit.  

As I type this, I am surfing wi-fi in the lobby.  Not an official wifi station, but picking up someone else's signal.

The hordes of Grand Chateau timeshare tours coming through this place is unbelievable.  I hope PT's is getting a lot of money for this!  (Which of course begs the question where is that rental revenue going?)

Back to the room.  Our suite has been fine, with no broken or missing stuff.  The cleaning staff and front desk have been very nice.  

As to the Hawaiian Marketplace, it's mdoerately busy outside, but inside virtually all of the restaurants are closed.  It is literally a ghost town inside the shops.  

The lounge has construction dust outside the door, and I heard scraping inside like they were doing some kind of tile/cement work.  When I hear more I'll let you know.

That's all I have for now.  Let me know if you have any further questions. Tomorrow we move to our dedicated 2 BR suite.

clue


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 14, 2006)

Just asked concierge what the plan is for the lounge.  I was referred to the front desk.  The gentleman at the front desk did not know, but another woman there said "The lounge is closed.  There is no more lounge.  It's going to be office space."

Turn that view into office space?


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 14, 2006)

This sounds like typical Polo Towers BS to me. It was nice of them to let the owners know that they planned on closing the lounge or for that matter, allow the owners any actual say in the matter. Just like when they rented the lounge to some outfit that turned it into a hip hop club that had all sorts of 20 somethings going through the resort until all hours of the night. There was so much security on grounds that it looked as if there was some sort of police action with the SWAT team called in.

IMO, management and the HOA act as if there are no owners and they can do as they please. There is no acountablity and I'm questioning why I continue to hold onto my units there. Perhaps it would be best to just sell them off and buy something else, somewhere else, on the resale market. As it stands now PT's is $100 more than the cost of my HGVC unit and the Villa's are $200 more BUT, Hilton maintains their properties. I do not understand why my MF's at PT's are so high yet the ONLY additional amenity PT's has over Hilton is daily (minimal) maid service. For that matter, I would MUCH rather have the lounge and lose the maid service if it came down to that.

It's not the units or location of PT's that has me contemplating selling out but strictly the poor management and unresponsive HOA. I know understand why the owners at JC kicked them to the curb so many years ago.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 14, 2006)

Doug,

Do you think they know what they're planning to do with the lounge?  Do you think they are going to rent it out?  As I said, there was tile dust outside the door, so they obviously have some kind of plan. There was no sign on the door about it being closed, nothing.

Why didn't you tell me about the insensitive management of this place before I bought?  

Oh wait, you did.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 14, 2006)

cluemeister said:
			
		

> Doug,
> 
> Do you think they know what they're planning to do with the lounge?  Do you think they are going to rent it out?  As I said, there was tile dust outside the door, so they obviously have some kind of plan. There was no sign on the door about it being closed, nothing.
> 
> ...



A few years ago they rented it out without the owners permission or knowledge. They just did it on their own. I guess enough owners complained that they either let the contract run out without renewing it or terminated it because it returned to being an owners lounge. 

I had read that they had installed key activated elevators for security. That would mean that the public would no longer have access to the lounge and would dry up a lot of business. They also served drinks in plastic dixie cups which were unattractive to say the least. I never understood why this resort could have semi-sort-of maid service (make the bed, hang up the towels) but couldn't afford a small dishwasher or bar sink to wash dishes. 

Stephen Cloobeck (Sp?), the man behind Diamond Resorts, is interested in only one thing. How much MONEY goes into his pocket. He and Mr. Seigel from Westgate would get along fine. I'm actually surprised that PT's didn't become a Westgate buyout to be totally honest.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 15, 2006)

i've sent an E-mail to the BOD asking why the lounge has been closed without notifying owners or asking for their imput and what they intend to do with it.

One thought has been that it would make a wonderful area for the fitness room rather than having it over at the Hawaiian Marketplace. IMO, that would be an accaptable use of that space.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 15, 2006)

Or how about using the lounge as a wi-fi hotspot?  Would bring a lot of people into the lounge, and you could even charge a small daily or weekly fee.  People would sit, surf and order drinks.

But why ask owners?  What do they know?


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 15, 2006)

Even putting the gift shop/convenience store up there with a coffee shop would be good idea but, as you said, why would owners want any say in what happens at their resort. I don't recall anything in the minutes from the last HOA meeting concerning the disposition of the owners lounge or where the money would come from to make any changes.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 15, 2006)

Doug,

I've checked my "Project Documents", and it states that 5 members of the board (which I believe is the total board) are to be voted in by the owners.

So the questions I have for you (if you know) or customer service are:  When are the elections?  How long are the terms?  How does one file?


----------



## babu (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: questions*

thank you cluemeister!

where is what rental revenue going?

and i'm new but wouldn't you get next to nothing if you sell?

babu


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: questions*



			
				babu said:
			
		

> thank you cluemeister!
> 
> where is what rental revenue going?
> 
> ...



According all our accounting statements sent when MF's are due, they go into the general fund and reduce our MF's. 

Cluemeister purchased resale at a pretty good price. The loss wouldn't be substantial. For that matter, if one were to sell PT's and use that money to purchase another timeshare somewhere else, the loss would be minimized. It's an idea I'm toying with more and more as time goes on. I believe I hold out until after the results of the SA.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 15, 2006)

I honestly don't know the answer to any of your questions. Since we live in the midwest, I haven't had a lot of interest in the HOA as it would be impracticle for me to run for a position. I've not been impressed with the way PT's has handled elections in the past. I don't recall a lot of biographical information being given about the candidates but, perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.


----------



## ljane (Apr 16, 2006)

Cluemeister,
Thanks for the information.  You are doing a good job finding out details.  Two years ago, when we were last at Polo Towers, we stayed in the new units on the 18th floor.  As you said it was nice but not more than a 8 (if that).

The only change that I remember was a different counter top in the kitchen, new furniture, curtains, and carpet through out.  The lock off unit was changed to a Murphy bed with a mini kitchen added.  When the Murphy bed was pulled down for the night, then the couch was covered that you could not sit on it. The mini kitchen had a small sink and counter space, under the counter refrigerator, small microwave, and a cupboard that held dishes for 2. 

Being from the east coast (where prices are cheaper) I still can't see where it would take over $60,000.00 to make these improvements.  They would buy in bulk, which would lower the cost of everything.  I really would like to see the improvements, but as I said before not under the present HOA, IMO and management team.  I do not trust them or believe anything they say.    What exactly are they renting?  Why do we never have a say or a vote on their decisions?  It was an excellent idea to put an exercise room where the lounge was. We have been waiting for the one on property that they promised us in 1999 I believe.

I still can't imagine where all the maintenance fees have gone. Certainly not in the units.
Maybe someone has a gambling problem!  

Ljane


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 16, 2006)

I remember when tower 3 was just a thought and there was a family swimming pool and hot tub where it now stands. The salesman told us that once tower 3 was started and that pool was closed, it would be relocated as they couldn't take away an amenity without replacing it since it was sold that way. Well guess what, they did. Thee was not a family pool area until they ripped us for the last SA and then took 3 or 4 years to build it after they collected the money.

I'm in the don't trust 'em catagory and I suspect many of the other owners are as well.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 16, 2006)

Have you stopped in to check out Marriott's Grand Chateau yet? Unfortunately, it might make you cry since you're staying in PT's rather than the Marriott. It's a little further from the strip but well worth the walk IMO. I look for the Marriott and the new Westgate being built behind the Aladdin to greatly reduce the exchange power of PT's. Especially if the SA and upgrades don't get done. 

Da** PT's management and HOA for NOT keeping the property up to what it should be. Granted it would never be the quality of a Marriott but it could still be a great timeshare in a better location.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 16, 2006)

Update - I was told by another customer service rep that the lounge was being converted to office space.  She said the lounge wasn't making money.  I'm sure that's true, but as Doug said, was this part of the annual meeting?

I plan on talking to the sales department this week, as I was told they have the answers to the questions I'm asking, i.e. who owns H.M.P.  That building must be losing money hand over fist, as the inside is almost empty.

Will update when I know more.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 16, 2006)

Two other things:  I took pictures of the model unit, and feel free to send me a PM if you'd like a few of them.

Secondly, I got a call for an "owners update". I asked if the "owners update" could be attended separately from the Grand Chateau tour, and was told they were combined.  How did I know that was going to be the answer? 

We'll take the GC tour, and as Doug suggested, bring along some Kleenex as we're bound to start crying our eyes out.  Everything has its price.  The dilemma at PT's is we could have a good timeshare at a great location for the mf's we are currently paying.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 16, 2006)

cluemeister said:
			
		

> Update - I was told by another customer service rep that the lounge was being converted to office space.  She said the lounge wasn't making money.  I'm sure that's true, but as Doug said, was this part of the annual meeting?
> 
> I plan on talking to the sales department this week, as I was told they have the answers to the questions I'm asking, i.e. who owns H.M.P.  That building must be losing money hand over fist, as the inside is almost empty.
> 
> Will update when I know more.



I guess I'll be reading through the paperwork we received when we puchased PT's. I'm pretty sure the HOA and the board do NOT have the authority to just take out something that benefits the owners and turn it into something that benefits someone other than the owners without the owners permission. Sort of like collecting the SA for the waterpark and updated security without getting a vote by the owners, which is what they did with the last SA.


----------



## Sharhu (Apr 17, 2006)

Doug, just what I commented on the other Polo thread.  We bought resale so I don't have much in the way of paperwork from before.  Is there anything in the bylaws or rules about being able to make this kind of change without owner approval.  Especially since it has been such a selling point for years.  We haven't been in timesharing that long so I don't have any idea what a HOA can do or cannot do on on their own legally or otherwise.


----------



## JillChang (Apr 17, 2006)

I also bought my Polo Towers Villas resale early last year.  It was my first timeshare purchase and I didn't know about TUG then.  

Now that I am a little more experienced, I am growing more alarmed everyday with PT's management.  Although I haven't visit the resort myself yet (I will be there in June), I did have a great trade with the 1 bdrm side through SFX.  But now with management closing this "Award-winning" lounge and converting it to "office"  (with a great view?)  without owner's approval, I am concerned how it will affect its trade power with increased competition from GC.

Who should I call to complain?  Management or HOA?


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 18, 2006)

Sharhu said:
			
		

> Doug, just what I commented on the other Polo thread.  We bought resale so I don't have much in the way of paperwork from before.  Is there anything in the bylaws or rules about being able to make this kind of change without owner approval.  Especially since it has been such a selling point for years.  We haven't been in timesharing that long so I don't have any idea what a HOA can do or cannot do on on their own legally or otherwise.



unfortunately most of what's in the book is legal mumbo jumbo that can put you to sleep. I haven't found the section yet as to what latitude management or the HOA has with making significant changes such as removal of the owners lounge, which as mentioned was always a BIG selling point on the sales tour. Whether there is specific language in the bylaws or not, I'm having a real tough time understanding the motivation behind this or the benefit to the owners of PT's. It appears to me that the HOA, board of directors and management team feel they have carte blanch to spend the owners money as they see fit and not as the owners might want. It shows a complete disregard for those of us who are paying $700 to $800 per year (2 bedroom suites at PT's and the Villa's) to pay their salary for management and upkeep of the resort. I feel that they have failed in their fiduciary capacity and could possibly be held liable for their actions.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 18, 2006)

So here it is, a non-owner (I think it was a non-owner) got customer service to answer an E-mail as to why the lounge was closed without consulting the owners. Here it is copied from the Las Vegas Talk website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lounge has always been in the developers name and unfortunately it 
has been closed. It is being renovated as office space for our 
accounting office. 

Regards, 

Mary 
Customer Service


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 18, 2006)

I spoke with customer service this AM and got the same answer, that the developer owns the lounge.  

I was also told the developer owns/owned the lot in front of Polo Towers.  He also sold the land that the Grand Chateau sits on.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2006)

This is interesting. I did not know it was possible that once units had been sold past a certain point that the developer retained any rights to the building or common areas. If this is true, then developers everywhere can sell a property, then make material changes after the project has sold out to enhance the developers revenue at the detriment to the owners. 

Somehow, I'm having a hard time believing this can be the case. I'm thinking it may be time to get a majority of the owners together and seek out some legal advice as to what can and can not be done by the owners, the HOA and the developer. The issue becomes the expense of contacting all of the owners. I'm certain that a list can be purchased that would include all the owners names and adresses on file at the courthouse but, that cost's money. Mailing letters to everyone on the list will also cost money.

Of course, this is something the HOA is SUPPOSED to do for the owners. It's what they are elected to do and I assume they receive some sort of compensation.

I will be E-mailing the president of the HOA tomorrow to get his take on this issue. I doubt that it differs much from customer service.


----------



## teepeeca (Apr 19, 2006)

I might suggest that everybody reads wht they signed and bought. Some timeshare properties state that the "common areas" belong to the timeshare owners, and some state, or specifically exclude the common areas.

Many times "new" timeshare owners just "assume" that everything they see is "theirs', when in reality, it is either leased to the timeshare owners, and/or it is the original developer's property, to do with and use as he sees fit.

Tony


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2006)

teepeeca said:
			
		

> I might suggest that everybody reads wht they signed and bought. Some timeshare properties state that the "common areas" belong to the timeshare owners, and some state, or specifically exclude the common areas.
> 
> Many times "new" timeshare owners just "assume" that everything they see is "theirs', when in reality, it is either leased to the timeshare owners, and/or it is the original developer's property, to do with and use as he sees fit.
> 
> Tony



I've been trying to wade through all the legal mumbo jumbo contained in the project documents but, unfortunately, it can be tuff sledding for those of us on versed in such matters. 

It is a scary thought that a developer can promise one thing and then, when it's sold out, turn a timeshare resort into office space with timeshare condo's attached to it. It was definately NOT sold that way by the sales dept. At the very least, there would be some degree of fraud and deceite involved in the developers sales practices.

Again, at the very least it is the HOA's job to protect the owners from any such abuse or, at the very least, let us know what is going on and why. Letting the owners know would be much better than keeping us in the dark, only to find out an important benefit we may have thought we purchased as part of our timeshare resort had been willfully destroyed by the developer after the final unit had sold.


----------



## cluemeister (Apr 20, 2006)

After looking at the project documents, it appears the developer retained "developmental rights" for 25 years in certain parts of the building.  I would like to get a list of exactly what areas are subject to developmental rights.  I'll be drafting a note to the HOA.


----------

