# Flamingo 7000 points - is this a fair price?



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 23, 2008)

I am still looking at the Flamingo - the purchase I was going to do before did not work out (wasn't on my end).

One on ebay at the Flamingo - 7000 platinum points a year - has a $10,500 reserve and $10,900 Buy it now.  Is this reasonable?  How much per point for platinum is fair?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320277638339


----------



## DEROS (Jul 23, 2008)

Fair is a relative term.  If you are in the Points are Points bandwagon, then you are getting fare price, about $1.70 per point.  Compared to Hawaii at about $2.80 per point.  The maintance fee is also lower in Las Vegas, which I am told, than the maintance fee in Hawaii.

The question is, can you afford the selling price and the annual maintance fee?


----------



## pianodinosaur (Jul 23, 2008)

I am not familiar with this seller. Seth Nock and Ms. Kozlowski seem to be the most respected Hilton resale vendors in TUG.  If I were going to purchase a resale, I would choose either one of them.


----------



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 23, 2008)

DEROS - thanks for the reply.  

Yes, I can afford the price of the unit and maint. fees.

Several months ago,  I almost bought one through Hilton directly at the new strip location.  I could "afford" this one too, but since discovering TUG I found that they can be sold so much lower through resale.  I would rather afford $12k rather than $28k (or whatever the high dollar amount Hilton sells them for).




DEROS said:


> Fair is a relative term.  If you are in the Points are Points bandwagon, then you are getting fare price, about $1.70 per point.  Compared to Hawaii at about $2.80 per point.  The maintance fee is also lower in Las Vegas, which I am told, than the maintance fee in Hawaii.
> 
> The question is, can you afford the selling price and the annual maintance fee?


----------



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 23, 2008)

Pianodinosaur -

Thanks for your input.

Doesn’t look like the person selling this is a broker and maybe just selling their personal unit (could be why the reserve is less too - avoiding broker fees I guess)  

I have looked at those two brokers too and I know they have good reputations.  They both have the same type of Flamingo units for sale and they are more $$$.

As far as I can see,  I would be using Hilton’s closing company and would do a title search and give title insurance.  Escrow would be used for all money – nothing would go direct to the seller - and closing would be with Hilton.  I would make sure that a contract gets signed, etc.  

I think that buying from an individual seller (or even a broker) is fine as long as the proper steps are taken.



pianodinosaur said:


> I am not familiar with this seller. Seth Nock and Ms. Kozlowski seem to be the most respected Hilton resale vendors in TUG.  If I were going to purchase a resale, I would choose either one of them.


----------



## jlee2070 (Jul 23, 2008)

Seth has some listings here on TUG's Classified that are very close to the numbers from the Ebay Auction.  You can always make an offer that is comparable to see what happens.  Heck, probably just call Seth and chat with him and he will tell you if he can get you your price...  Any of the HGVC properties will probably suite your needs.  Flamingo currently has a special accessment that might make the MF's a little higher...


----------



## UWSurfer (Jul 23, 2008)

jlee2070 said:


> Seth has some listings here on TUG's Classified that are very close to the numbers from the Ebay Auction.  You can always make an offer that is comparable to see what happens.  Heck, probably just call Seth and chat with him and he will tell you if he can get you your price...  Any of the HGVC properties will probably suite your needs.  Flamingo currently has a special accessment that might make the MF's a little higher...



$1.70/point platinum is a deal.  I'd go for it.   However, given my experiences I'd likely give Seth a call and see if he can get you this at this price.   I know when I deal with him the sale will go through without headaches.


----------



## Bill4728 (Jul 23, 2008)

The key info which you get when you go to the ebay is that you get use of almost all the 2008 pts. And you don't have to pay for them!! MFs start in 2009.

This makes this a good deal!! 

Closing with a HGVC associated company also makes this better. 


I'd offer the $10,500 and hope I don't get out bid.  I'd probably not go for the buy it now price of $11,900.


----------



## jlee2070 (Jul 23, 2008)

Bill4728 said:


> The key info which you get when you go to the ebay is that you get use of almost all the 2008 pts. And you don't have to pay for them!! MFs start in 2009.
> 
> This makes this a good deal!!
> 
> ...



But the listing has this "The 2008 fees are FULLY INCLUDED in the "Buy It Now" price or a winning bid of $11,500 and above.  If the winning bid is below this amount, Buyer will reimburse $796 (prorated amount) of 2008 fees to seller at closing.  Use the "Buy It Now" feature to win and get the 2008 fees included!***"

Meaning, if you buy for less than $11.5K, you pay the $796 MF.


----------



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 23, 2008)

The seller has changed the listing.  

From the seller:


_"I am getting numerous responses from people who are confused with the terms of this auction.  Therefore, I am modifying this listing to avoid any other confusion.

The "Buy It Now" price has been significantly lowered.  The reserve is still $10,500.  In additon to the winning bid, a prorated amount of the current year fees ($796) will need to be reimbursed to me by the buyer.  This is only fair since the winning bidder will have full control of the remaining current year ClubPoints (6200 points)."_

Maybe Tuggers have been razzin him...lol


I guess all I was trying to establish - How much per point is “fair” for platinum?  I have been looking at this one differently.

Basically, they want $10,500 (minimum) - $10,900 (buy now).  This is between $1.50 – $1.55 a point.  

One thing I have learned from this board – the cost of the timeshare is one thing and the taxes, maint fees, closing costs, dues, etc are another.  Otherwise we would add the cost of every one of these fees for as long as we own it and call that our "purchase price".

The way I look at it it is $1.55 a point and the "one year use" of the extra 6200 points is 13 cents a point ($796 divided by 6200).  I can have 13,200 points to use next year (no more traveling this year for me!)  Could I book and rent out a unit using the extra points?

I will see what I am going to do. I will show my wife tonight and get her approval before though.  I have learned the hard way that any big decisions need to be cleared with her or I end up in the doghouse!  (Been there, done that - sheesh!)


----------



## capjak (Jul 23, 2008)

It is a good price.  You could wait for another over the rest of the year and maybe get one $1000 cheaper like this tugger.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74427


----------



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 23, 2008)

capjak said:


> It is a good price.  You could wait for another over the rest of the year and maybe get one $1000 cheaper like this tugger.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74427



Wow - that is a really great price!  

I wonder if that one is like finding a real tiny needle out of a really big haystack...!!?


----------



## Aptman (Jul 24, 2008)

*Good deal*



HGVCnewbie said:


> Wow - that is a really great price!
> 
> I wonder if that one is like finding a real tiny needle out of a really big haystack...!!?



I think it's a great deal.  You may do better, but you may not.  If you're goinig to use it, then do it.  That's the criteria.  If you're not sure how much you'll use it, then it's probably not a good idea.

If you peruse what people have been paying, you'll see that this is a good price.  People can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the area at which HGVC may exercise their ROFR (Right of First Refusal) if this was not the Flamingo (there is no ROFR for the Flamingo).  My view is that if you're in the range of ROFR, then you should go for it, especially since you're safe and face no risk of that happening.


----------



## hicksville (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't think it's a bad idea to talk to the brokers.  A couple months ago, I got a pkg thru Judy K. for a 4800 points package at the Flamingo for a good deal, I think.  It was listed @$8000, but we negotiated with the seller, just like you would for a house.
This is the deal I got:

4800 points, 1 BR plat, Flamingo
$7000, included:  timeshare, seller pays closing costs and title insurance (roughly $500) thru Hilton Grand Vacations Title.  
2008 points = 4080.  Because maint fees aren't pro-rated when points are partially used, I didn't pay 2008 MF = savings of roughly $600 I figure, on the total price. I used 2100 points and rolled the remainder into 2009 and already used them.


so the way I view my deal is $5900 for 4800 points = $1.23/point

Anyway, I think it's a good to idea to explore all options, and that includes seeing what the brokers have too.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jul 24, 2008)

It is a good deal
IIf you are new at this - I would just be careful about making sure the whole transaction goes smoothly and cleanly ( is this a word?)...... escrow- title etc- the process. 
I would check with BLUES who recently made a great purchase of Flamingo through EBAY. and posted it in this forum-
He went through the process himself so he can probably help you out.

If you want to feel a little safer - you may want to contact Seth Nock- He always has inventory. See if he can work something out for you -"ceanly"

Happy Hunting


----------



## Blues (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm still in escrow.  My last communication from the escrow company is that they're still waiting for the letter of estoppel from HGVC.  Apparently HGVC is pretty slow about this stuff, and it's a necessary step that everyone has to go through in order to close on an HGVC purchase.

So, as far as I know, everything's going along normally.  But I can't comment on how well the seller or the closing agent has done until we actually close.

-Bob


----------



## HGVCnewbie (Jul 24, 2008)

hicksville said:


> I don't think it's a bad idea to talk to the brokers.  A couple months ago, I got a pkg thru Judy K. for a 4800 points package at the Flamingo for a good deal, I think.  It was listed @$8000, but we negotiated with the seller, just like you would for a house.
> This is the deal I got:
> 
> 4800 points, 1 BR plat, Flamingo
> ...



Hicksville - congrats on a great deal!

I guess everything is a negotiation and depends on how motivated (or desperate) a seller is and what he is willing to take for a deal.

Since posting this I have been checking out previous posts about platinum points - I have been reading that platinum sells anywhere from 1.80 - 2.00 a point (upwards of $14k) and that is going rate.  People have bought around that range and are happy.  This one is obviously less than that at 1.55/pt.

I was never asking if this was the "deal of a lifetime" or anything like that - only if it was fair enough to walk away feeling good about it if I bought it.

Seth has the same exact one on ebay right now starting at $12,200 with a buy now at $12,800.  If I get this other one at $10,500 and even paying the additional $796 for the points, I still come out about $900 ahead than if I bought Seth's auction at $12,200.

Other ones that I see at his website and Judy's are around the $12k range, possibly a little bit lower and some even a lot higher in cases.  Comes down to what someone will let it go for.

If I compare it to those examples, it seems like a pretty good deal and we would get some nice use out of it for years to come.

I know that ultimately the decision comes down to me (and my wife) if we are going to bid on it.  I still haven't brought it up to her yet (I feel like a kid asking his parents for a new expensive toy).

Thanks to everyone who gave me their 2 cents on this topic.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Jul 24, 2008)

Blues said:


> I'm still in escrow.  My last communication from the escrow company is that they're still waiting for the letter of estoppel from HGVC.  Apparently HGVC is pretty slow about this stuff, and it's a necessary step that everyone has to go through in order to close on an HGVC purchase.
> 
> So, as far as I know, everything's going along normally.  But I can't comment on how well the seller or the closing agent has done until we actually close.
> 
> -Bob



I have been watching your postings on this matter with great interest including the auction on ebay.  I hope that you encounter no problems with Hilton regarding ROFR.


----------



## jlee2070 (Jul 24, 2008)

If this is for Flamingo...  There is no ROFR.


----------



## hicksville (Jul 24, 2008)

HGVCnewbie said:


> Hicksville - congrats on a great deal!
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



THanks!  But you gotta call them and start negotiating!!  The price on the web site is an asking price and may be outdated, too!  CALLLLLL


----------



## Zac495 (Jul 24, 2008)

Call Seth Nock!!!! He's smart, knowledgeable, and fair!


----------



## Aptman (Jul 25, 2008)

hicksville said:


> THanks!  But you gotta call them and start negotiating!!  The price on the web site is an asking price and may be outdated, too!  CALLLLLL




I got one similar to Hicksville here on TUG at the end of last year.  I got 1bd platinum at Flamingo (4800 points) for $5700.  I paid closing costs and 2008 MFs, so total for me was about $7,000 after everything.  What was interesting was that I called Judi about a 5000 point one she was selling, and I thought about buying that instead (the price was roughly the same).  She told me emphatically that I should buy the one I eventually bought (not from her), instead of the one she was selling.  She said that even if it's a little less money for the 5000 points, and it's 200 more points per year, the lower MFs and the resale value of platinum made that deal much better.

I thought it was extremely honest of her to tell me not to buy her listing (and she knew that I was ready to pull the trigger).  So, it really shows how good it is to talk with these reputable sellers like Seth and Judi.  Often they are stuck with unrealistic sellers who force them to sell for higher than the property can bring in, but that's understandable in a market like timeshares where people paid exhorbitant prices and were promised that if they ever wanted to get out, they could sell it in a heartbeat and make money off of it (at least, I've heard that's one of the lines that they feed you - I've never been through a presentation).

But, like you said, you're not looking for bragging rights that you've found the very best, you're looking for something that you can use, feel happy with, and enjoy for the years to come.  I say, buy it.  If it's too pricey, find yourself a 4800 point deal somewhere and buy that (this was my issue).


----------



## Blues (Jul 25, 2008)

Wow.  $5700 for 4800 platinum points.  That's a better deal than the one I got via eBay.  Congratulations, aptman.

In other news, my escrow agent just sent email informing me that they've received the letter from HGVC.  They'll be preparing the docs and sending them to me and the seller shortly.  No one has asked for any money whatsoever up to this point, not even a deposit.  They're apparently waiting until all the documentation is in before asking for payment to escrow.  I find that reassuring.

Considering the kinds of prices that people here are reporting, I say contact Seth or Judi.  See what they can find you.  It's very reassuring to deal with known, reputable agents such as these two.


----------

