# Westin Whistler Phase 2 Owners, any here? (2013)



## Jonzer

I'm looking at purchasing a hotel managed property in Whistler at the Westin. These properties are referred to as Phase 2. 

You buy the room like you would a condo, and you are restricted to using it 56 days a year. On the days you're not using it, you collect rental income from your share of the hotels revenues. 

The rooms net anywhere from $3k-$10k per year, and that's after all expenses including strata, property taxes and other fees. 

Does anyone have any experience with owning a Phase 2 property and would you be able to share how things have gone?


Thanks!


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## Bwask

*Where did you get your info?*

Where did you get your info that the rooms net $3 to $10k per year net. Have you seen a break down of the year ownership fees. I've heard bad stories from people that have full ownership there.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Jonzer said:


> I'm looking at purchasing a hotel managed property in Whistler at the Westin. These properties are referred to as Phase 2.
> 
> You buy the room like you would a condo, and you are restricted to using it 56 days a year. On the days you're not using it, you collect rental income from your share of the hotels revenues.
> 
> The rooms net anywhere from $3k-$10k per year, and that's after all expenses including strata, property taxes and other fees.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with owning a Phase 2 property and would you be able to share how things have gone?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


From your post, I surmise that you are thinking of buying an entire unit at the Westin, not just a a timeshare week. I'll throw in a few thoughts, from the few pieces of information that I have.

re the 56 days of personal use per year. I don't know the specific details for this property, but I do understand that in general most of the condo developments in Whistler have restrictions of this type.  And I think it is for the better.

When Intrawest was heavily involved in developing Whistler they looked at a number of other resorts. One problem they noted was that in many places many of the units that were close to the lifts were owned by owners who only used their units a few weeks per year, with the units sitting vacant most of the time. Meanwhile there were people who wanted to rent but there weren't units to rent. So Intrawest created strata (condo) agreements that limited the number of days an owner could use a unit and required that units be put into a rental pool.  This had the effect of increasing the rental market, while also increasing the number of people actually staying in the village, which was good for the Village merchants.

As to the economics - I have done a number of private rentals in Whistler. In fact, I owned a whiski Jack property for about a year, but then I sold it because for the same money I could rent from a private owner without having the obligations of ownership.

In talking with private owners from whom I rented I deduced that their goal was to be able to get enough rental income from their unit to be able to cover operating expenses, leaving them able to use the unit essentially rent free for four or five weeks per year.  The proposition worked out best for people who lived in Vancouver, where they could use the condo for those odd two or three days when there was an open space in their bookings that they couldn't fill.  They would then take a short ski vacation and clean the unit themselves before departure (in lieu of their usual cleaning service). They didn't make money, but they regarded it as free ski vacations with a possible equity bonus if they sold.  

****

As to your situation ... don't make the mistake of thinking that you can rent units for the same rate as the Westin.  Put  yourself in the position as a renter ... if you had two offers in front of you for the same money, one from the Westin and one from some private individual about whom you know nothing - which would you take?  

Bottom line: as a private person you should figure that you would get no more than one-half of the rates that the hotel operator gets.  Also, think about who is handling your rental. If it is the Westin itself consider whether they are more motivated to rent a unit from their own inventory or from private owner inventory?  Figure that given the choice they are going to offer your inventory only after they have rented all of the inventory they control directly.


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## Maple_Leaf

*Condo Hotel: Non-Traditional Interval Ownership*

***This thread probably should be moved to the Non-Traditional Interval Ownership section of TUG.***

I don't own at Whistler but I do know a bit about these condo hotel properties.

Phase 2 is condo hotel, subject to restrictions on personal use of a maximum 28 days in winter and 28 days in summer, not just 56 days.  This is important at Whistler since it is a ski resort.

Phase 2 units are bought as investment rentals with incidental personal use.  You have control over two factors in determining your financial performance with this thing, number of days of personal use and season of personal use.  How and when your unit is in the rental pool determines the size of your rental cheque.  Each day the revenue from the rental pool is split amongst the units available to the rental pool that day regardless of whether they are rented or not.  If you use the unit for personal use for 28 days in prime ski season your financial performance will lag me if I use mine for 28 days during mud weeks.

Make sure to ask your realtor for the financial report on this unit for the past few years.  If the owner wants to sell the unit he will have provided this disclosure information.  Check your cash-on-cash return then factor in any mortgage payment to see if you have positive cash flow.  A lot of these things are sold by owners because they have negative cash flow, however, if you are a cash buyer the cash-on-cash return may be attractive.  Good luck.


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## Jonzer

Thanks for the input.  Yes I have reviewed financial statements from quite a few units and this is purely profit as all the other deductions are accounted for.  Unfortunately there are no units for sale there at this time that were in my price range.

If anyone else has any other experiences with the Whistler Westin, I'd love to hear about it.


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## tturla

Jonzer said:


> Thanks for the input.  Yes I have reviewed financial statements from quite a few units and this is purely profit as all the other deductions are accounted for.  Unfortunately there are no units for sale there at this time that were in my price range.
> 
> If anyone else has any other experiences with the Whistler Westin, I'd love to hear about it.




Any update on this? Prices are way higher nowadays and other properties such Hilton and Marriott and PanAmerican are also offering phase 2 condos. And they are quoting a higher net income.


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## Jonzer

Thought I’d revisit this thread and give my thoughts as an owner at the Westin, 5 years after initially creating this thread.

Ownership has been great, property values have tripled and the monthly distributions after all expenses (property taxes, strata, assessments etc) easily carry/cover the mortgage costs. Might be tougher to expect the same returns based on today’s prices, but the unit will carry itself in terms of expenses. If you’re looking for a place you can use 56 days per year and not have to pay expenses besides mortgage costs, it’s a great investment.


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## Jonzer

tturla said:


> Any update on this? Prices are way higher nowadays and other properties such Hilton and Marriott and PanAmerican are also offering phase 2 condos. And they are quoting a higher net income.



Stay away from Hilton, last I heard you need to pay 35% of the street rate to stay there. Pan Pacific Mountainside is probably the best resort on the mountain when it comes to revenues. I’d also look into Four Seasons.


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## Maple_Leaf

Jonzer said:


> Thought I’d revisit this thread and give my thoughts as an owner at the Westin, 5 years after initially creating this thread.
> 
> Ownership has been great, property values have tripled and the monthly distributions after all expenses (property taxes, strata, assessments etc) easily carry/cover the mortgage costs. Might be tougher to expect the same returns based on today’s prices, but the unit will carry itself in terms of expenses. If you’re looking for a place you can use 56 days per year and not have to pay expenses besides mortgage costs, it’s a great investment.


I'm happy this has been a successful investment for you.  I'm not surprised, since I know of several condo hotels in Toronto and South Florida that have provided excellent operational returns not including the tripling or quadrupling of property values over the last five years.


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