# Is there anyway to become VIP if only a resale owner?



## Barblich (Dec 10, 2016)

i probably know the answer to this, but I was wondering if any of the Wyndham experts might know something that I haven't heard. Besides being willed access points or purchasing retail, is there anyway to become VIP by only buying resale. I currently own 128k, but I'd be wiling to buy more on the resale market to get to 400k if I knew I could get  VIP benefits. Any insights?


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 10, 2016)

Sorry ... VIP benefits are for the direct buyers ... as Wyndham marketing pays for those discounts and unit upgrades.

You could RENT reservations from VIP owners who spent a lot of money with Wyndham ... for those discounts.


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 10, 2016)

From all I can tell, it would take lots & lots & lots of upgrades & discounts & other VIP benefits to make up for the difference between full-freight VIP prices & resale prices.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Barblich (Dec 10, 2016)

vacationhopeful said:


> Sorry ... VIP benefits are for the direct buyers ... as Wyndham marketing pays for those discounts and unit upgrades.
> 
> You could RENT reservations from VIP owners who spent a lot of money with Wyndham ... for those discounts.





AwayWeGo said:


> From all I can tell, it would take lots & lots & lots of upgrades & discounts & other VIP benefits to make up for the difference between full-freight VIP prices & resale prices.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


I was fairly sure that would be the answer, but I just thought I would ask anyway. Just sat throught an "Owners Update" so it got me thinking. Thanx for the reposnses.


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## ronparise (Dec 10, 2016)

Barblich said:


> I was fairly sure that would be the answer, but I just thought I would ask anyway. Just sat throught an "Owners Update" so it got me thinking. Thanx for the reposnses.



If there is a way the folks that know it aren't talking

I came close several years ago.  I took 3 Pahio weeks purchased on the secondary market and converted them to VIP eligible points with the purchase of one small contract bought directly from Wyndham. It was a $12000 purchase. I put 50% down and financed $6000 my payments are $150 a month which is peanuts compared to my maintenance fees for that now 10 million point account 

I tried to do it again and was told the rules changed. I did 3 conversions with one purchase. The new rule was each converted week week would require a purchase so it would take something like 200090 points or $ 35000 to $40000

The only salesmen that could  pull this off are in Hawaii  The guy that made it happen for me has moved to another company. They may have closed the loophole altogether by now.  I don't know


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## Barblich (Dec 10, 2016)

ronparise said:


> If there is a way the folks that know it aren't talking
> 
> I came close several years ago.  I took 3 Pahio weeks purchased on the secondary market and converted them to VIP eligible points with the purchase of one small contract bought directly from Wyndham. It was a $12000 purchase. I put 50% down and financed $6000 my payments are $150 a month which is peanuts compared to my maintenance fees for that now 10 million point account
> 
> ...


Thanx Ron,

I should have realized that if anyone would know how it would be you. I guess I'll just use my small points alottment to the best of my ability. Considering I own 11 timeshares, points, weeks, II as well as RCI, all bought resale, I can usually get to where I need to go. Just always trying to figure the best ways to use what I have. Off course, TUG is always my place to go for answers.


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## BellaWyn (Dec 10, 2016)

Barblich said:


> I should have realized that if anyone would know how it would be you.


*OR consider this could be accurate....*


ronparise said:


> If there is a way, the folks that know it aren't talking


Because why would they?


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## 55plus (Dec 10, 2016)

Another little know way to obtain a VIP membership is to inherit it from a parent as spelled out in the Wyndham directory. The problem is, your parent(s) must have a VIP membership prior.


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## Barblich (Dec 10, 2016)

morrisjim said:


> Another little know way to obtain a VIP membership is to inherit it from a parent as spelled out in the Wyndham directory. The problem is, your parent(s) must have a VIP membership prior.


Actually, I was aware of that and that's what got me thinking because when you inherit from a VIP owner, you automatically become VIP even if you only inherit 100k. VIP owners in access can designate up to 6 beneficiaries and can divide anyway they wish. If they divide 600k 6 ways, all 6 people get 100k and all 6 are VIP.


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## 55plus (Dec 10, 2016)

That I didn't know. Are you sure? My VIP Platinum ownership consist of inherited deeds. If I sell some deeds and point totals go below a VIP level I believe I will lose the VIP benefit. I think that also applies to CWA, but I don't know because I'm not familiar with that program.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 10, 2016)

Barblich said:


> Actually, I was aware of that and that's what got me thinking because when you inherit from a VIP owner, you automatically become VIP even if you only inherit 100k. VIP owners in access can designate up to 6 beneficiaries and can divide anyway they wish. If they divide 600k 6 ways, all 6 people get 100k and all 6 are VIP.



That has always been a a really tough question that no one has ever been able to answer for my father.   Of course he was always asking sales people (and it was obviously impossible to get a straight answer). 

Many time my Dad tried to find out what would happen to his VIP status were his 5 children to inherit his 1.5M VIP points. He thought (as did I) that we need to keep the points together in order to maintain the VIP status. I'm pretty certain I've asked that of Wyndham as well. Sadly it seems to be one of those areas that you don't really know what's going to happen until you try it.

Has anyone ever split their VIP platinum accounts multiple ways and had the many split-out accounts maintain VIP platinum status?  I would LOVE to know - it would certainly change our strategy (and boy would it simplify my life - the one currently managing this for our family under the premise it needs to be kept together in order to maintain VIP platinum status).


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## bnoble (Dec 10, 2016)

BellaWyn said:


> *OR consider this could be accurate....*
> 
> Because why would they?


Continuing your little vendetta, I see.  Sure wish I knew why.


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## Barblich (Dec 10, 2016)

bnoble said:


> Continuing your little vendetta, I see.  Sure wish I knew why.


This is what I was told today at the Owners Update ( I know, can't always trust what is said,  but this was presented as fact to all of us in the room,  witnesses, you know) but it is a benefit of Club Wyndham Access only, not Select accounts. I'm going to see if I can find any documentation and will post it if, I do.


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## 55plus (Dec 11, 2016)

Sandi Bo said:


> That has always been a a really tough question that no one has ever been able to answer for my father.   Of course he was always asking sales people (and it was obviously impossible to get a straight answer).
> 
> Many time my Dad tried to find out what would happen to his VIP status were his 5 children to inherit his 1.5M VIP points. He thought (as did I) that we need to keep the points together in order to maintain the VIP status. I'm pretty certain I've asked that of Wyndham as well. Sadly it seems to be one of those areas that you don't really know what's going to happen until you try it.
> 
> Has anyone ever split their VIP platinum accounts multiple ways and had the many split-out accounts maintain VIP platinum status?  I would LOVE to know - it would certainly change our strategy (and boy would it simplify my life - the one currently managing this for our family under the premise it needs to be kept together in order to maintain VIP platinum status).



It doesn't matter what a Wyndham sales weasel says or another owner for that matter. What matters is what is in print. If it's not in print then default to 'No' as being the answer. If the answer is 'Yes' in print and the policy changes before splitting up the membership it most likely won't be grandfathered.


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 11, 2016)

Barblich said:


> This is what I was told today at the Owners Update ( I know, can't always trust what is said,  but this was presented as fact to all of us in the room,  witnesses, you know) but it is a benefit of Club Wyndham Access only, not Select accounts. I'm going to see if I can find any documentation and will post it if, I do.



Interesting. I'm still not sure I'd believe them. In my situation it does not apply - all of our contracts are Select.  Will be interesting to see if you find anything in writing (it's never been easy to find rules around inheritance and my experience was that the sales people had no clue).

Jinx Jim (I see we were replying a the same time).


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## whitewater (Dec 11, 2016)

Sandi Bo said:


> Interesting. I'm still not sure I'd believe them. In my situation it does not apply - all of our contracts are Select.  Will be interesting to see if you find anything in writing (it's never been easy to find rules around inheritance and my experience was that the sales people had no clue).
> 
> Jinx Jim (I see we were replying a the same time).


may be better to just keep your contracts together and let family use as a group so you don't loose the VIP benefits.  (This assumes your family relationships and dynamics are conducive to this working long term).


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 11, 2016)

whitewater said:


> may be better to just keep your contracts together and let family use as a group so you don't loose the VIP benefits.  (This assumes your family relationships and dynamics are conducive to this working long term).


Thanks. That is the plan at this time.  Thankfully we all get along great. We've got ground rules we've all agreed to. But it does get complicated. Now grandchildren (my nieces and nephews) are old enough to use it. To those actively using it they are being added to resale contracts so they are on the account (if they choose). Some are interested some are not.  We've always operated on the premise that the true value in this is to keep it all together in order to maintain the VIP Platinum benefits. I have promised to document an exit strategy (that is currently floating around in my head - things like maintenance paid in advance for a year, information on Ovations as well as companies that could assist in selling on the resale market (for at least a minimal profit - if no one wants to take over management of the account).  My husband just keeps saying to be sure I leave the number for Ovations cause he's gonna run as fast as he can.


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## Barblich (Dec 14, 2016)

Sandi Bo said:


> Thanks. That is the plan at this time.  Thankfully we all get along great. We've got ground rules we've all agreed to. But it does get complicated. Now grandchildren (my nieces and nephews) are old enough to use it. To those actively using it they are being added to resale contracts so they are on the account (if they choose). Some are interested some are not.  We've always operated on the premise that the true value in this is to keep it all together in order to maintain the VIP Platinum benefits. I have promised to document an exit strategy (that is currently floating around in my head - things like maintenance paid in advance for a year, information on Ovations as well as companies that could assist in selling on the resale market (for at least a minimal profit - if no one wants to take over management of the account).  My husband just keeps saying to be sure I leave the number for Ovations cause he's gonna run as fast as he can.



I got this from the CW Directory:

"Eligibility Requirements:  VIP program benefits are offerred to CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Members allocated at least 400,000 CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points on an annual basis. Only CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, *ownership interests acquired  by will or intestate succession, ownership interests acquired by “Immediate Relative” of members, or through PIC enrollments count toward VIP status. “Immediate Relative” currently includes parents, spouses, domestic partners, siblings, children and grandchildren. *Purchases of ownership interests made from private individuals or resale companies will not count toward the total points required for VIP eligibility. "  

I still haven't confirmed what I was told: That if points are divided, and allottment is then less than 400K, if they are still VIP. But I'll keep looking. If anyone has any first hand knowledge, that would be appreciated.


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## ronparise (Dec 14, 2016)

Barblich said:


> I got this from the CW Directory:
> 
> "Eligibility Requirements:  VIP program benefits are offerred to CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Members allocated at least 400,000 CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points on an annual basis. Only CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, *ownership interests acquired  by will or intestate succession, ownership interests acquired by “Immediate Relative” of members, or through PIC enrollments count toward VIP status. “Immediate Relative” currently includes parents, spouses, domestic partners, siblings, children and grandchildren. *Purchases of ownership interests made from private individuals or resale companies will not count toward the total points required for VIP eligibility. "
> 
> I still haven't confirmed what I was told: That if points are divided, and allottment is then less than 400K, if they are still VIP. But I'll keep looking. If anyone has any first hand knowledge, that would be appreciated.



And almost certainly what will confirm is that at least 1 million VIP eligible points are required to be Platinum (700K for Gold and 400k for Silver)  What you posted from the book is clear. The inherited VIP eligible points "*count toward"* VIP status.


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## Barblich (Dec 14, 2016)

ronparise said:


> And almost certainly what will confirm is that at least 1 million VIP eligible points are required to be Platinum (700K for Gold and 400k for Silver)  What you posted from the book is clear. The inherited VIP eligible points "*count toward"* VIP status.



Ron,

This I know. However, the "Owners Update" presenter was very adamant that if the a Silver VIP owner with 600K left 100K to 6 relatives then all 6 relatives would then become Silver VIP even with only 100K. Sounded implausible to us too, but this is definitely what he said so I am just trying to confirm. I Know, I know - you can't believe a word they say, but it was said to the whole room, more than once. I'd just like to know if its true or not but, of course, having trouble finding any written confirmation - hence the question about any first hand knowledge.


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## ronparise (Dec 14, 2016)

Barblich said:


> Ron,
> 
> This I know. However, the "Owners Update" presenter was very adamant that if the a Silver VIP owner with 600K left 100K to 6 relatives then all 6 relatives would then become Silver VIP even with only 100K. Sounded implausible to us too, but this is definitely what he said so I am just trying to confirm. I Know, I know - you can't believe a word they say, but it was said to the whole room, more than once. I'd just like to know if its true or not but, of course, having trouble finding any written confirmation - hence the question about any first hand knowledge.



Perhaps you could give it a try and see what happens. Then report back here

I don't think you will find anyone with first hand knowledge as I don't think it ever happened

That's not to say mistakes have never happened.  My very first purchase was a package of three converted fixed weeks that made me a silver VIP


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## bnoble (Dec 14, 2016)

Barblich, I think you already know the answer. The common-sense answer is no, splitting them won't preserve VIP unless one (or more) of the resulting accounts is VIP-qualified on its face. A salesperson told you that this common-sense answer is not how things work, but that salesperson (a) only cares about making a sale and (b) knows that verbal (mis-)representations can't be held against him, because (c) the contract says that only what is written matters. And, what is written says inherited contracts "count towards" VIP, not "preserves" or similar language.

Chalk this up to another instance of "Lips are moving, must be false."


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## raygo123 (Dec 14, 2016)

bnoble said:


> Barblich, I think you already know the answer. The common-sense answer is no, splitting them won't preserve VIP unless one (or more) of the resulting accounts is VIP-qualified on its face. A salesperson told you that this common-sense answer is not how things work, but that salesperson (a) only cares about making a sale and (b) knows that verbal (mis-)representations can't be held against him, because (c) the contract says that only what is written matters. And, what is written says inherited contracts "count towards" VIP, not "preserves" or similar language.
> 
> Chalk this up to another instance of "Lips are moving, must be false."


A sales manager told me that if you split, and your right, if the total of each does not meet the minimum points needed, you loose VIP status.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## OutSkiing (Dec 14, 2016)

I've had a sales manager tell us that as well. But in the same breath he said they can 'split up' CWA points among the siblings while Select points must be kept whole for each contract. So it was kind of a lead-in to trying to switch us to more CWA .. hence maybe stretching the truth.

Bob


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## Barblich (Dec 15, 2016)

OutSkiing said:


> I've had a sales manager tell us that as well. But in the same breath he said they can 'split up' CWA points among the siblings while Select points must be kept whole for each contract. So it was kind of a lead-in to trying to switch us to more CWA .. hence maybe stretching the truth.
> 
> Bob



Just to point out, my beginning question was asking about Access points:

"i probably know the answer to this, but I was wondering if any of the Wyndham experts might know something that I haven't heard. *Besides being willed access points* or purchasing retail, is there anyway to become VIP by only buying resale. I currently own 128k, but I'd be wiling to buy more on the resale market to get to 400k if I knew I could get VIP benefits. Any insights?"

So it looks like there might be a small grain of truth in there somewhere, hmmmm.....


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 15, 2016)

No ....

Just re-frame your window on your possible Wyndham ownership ... as a resale owner, your DISCOUNT is buying the points for pennies on the dollar on the resale market.


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## bnoble (Dec 15, 2016)

OutSkiing said:


> But in the same breath he said they can 'split up' CWA points among the siblings while Select points must be kept whole for each contract.


This makes sense. A CWA contract doesn't actually "own" anything---you just "buy" the right to use points each year, but the title to the properties representing those points are held by the Trust. So, Wyndham could, if it wanted to, allow you to split that single contract into two different ones. However, a UDI or converted fixed week is backed by a specific deed, title to that deed is conveyed to the purchaser, and that single deed can't be split in two.


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## am1 (Dec 15, 2016)

bnoble said:


> This makes sense. A CWA contract doesn't actually "own" anything---you just "buy" the right to use points each year, but the title to the properties representing those points are held by the Trust. So, Wyndham could, if it wanted to, allow you to split that single contract into two different ones. However, a UDI or converted fixed week is backed by a specific deed, title to that deed is conveyed to the purchaser, and that single deed can't be split in two.



Unless with a new purchase.


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## dominidude (Dec 21, 2016)

Nobody mentioned it, so I guess i will.
If the Wyndham account is in a business's name (e.g., an LLC), you could buy the company and as the new company owner you would inherit the VIP membership. Very few people own within an LLC, though I think it should be more common. That being said, the perks associated with being VIP do not seem great to me. I know a club Wyndham VIP personally, and I am not all impressed with the bookings he's made over the years.


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## John_and_Val (Dec 21, 2016)

And if they take away cancel and rebook, "store" bought VIP is not worth much. I know this would not make resale owners happy but wouldn't it make sense (since Wyndham changes the rules all the time, anyway) to restrict VIP benefits to Wyndham purchased points only? They should make it worth the money. I mean the majority of problems (according to Wyndham) comes from the "mega-renter". The "mega-renter" probably owns a majority of points via resale. Eliminating resale, eliminates mega-renters. Hell, they could feasibly use the "cancel and rebook" as a true benefit for VIP members. So a win - win for all. The person who feels they need to purchase through Wyndham gets, what they feel, is a good "perk" for the price and the resale owner buys at a major discount to use the points for reservations. Want to rent your points? You need to purchase enough resale to make it worth your time and money.......
Doesn't that make sense?????


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## ronparise (Dec 21, 2016)

dominidude said:


> Nobody mentioned it, so I guess i will.
> If the Wyndham account is in a business's name (e.g., an LLC), you could buy the company and as the new company owner you would inherit the VIP membership. Very few people own within an LLC, though I think it should be more common. That being said, the perks associated with being VIP do not seem great to me. I know a club Wyndham VIP personally, and I am not all impressed with the bookings he's made over the years.



Using LLCs to pass on VIP accounts has been discused here a lot, but I have found  its difficult to convince a seller to form an LLC, and then sell that LLC.  to me

by the way, VIPs cant make different reservations, or better reservations.. 

The key benefits are discounts on reservations made within 60 days of check in and more "free" guest confirmations, and unlimited housekeeping and transactions.  So folks that travel in the off season and give reservations away to family and friends are (or should be) the chief beneficiaries of a VIP ownership

The fact is that the benefits of VIP do not justify the high price.  You do much better buying on the secondary market and paying full price for your reservations


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## bradfordHI (Dec 21, 2016)

Barblich said:


> i probably know the answer to this, but I was wondering if any of the Wyndham experts might know something that I haven't heard. Besides being willed access points or purchasing retail, is there anyway to become VIP by only buying resale. I currently own 128k, but I'd be wiling to buy more on the resale market to get to 400k if I knew I could get  VIP benefits. Any insights?



VIP is only developer. You get what you pay for.

Developer works and costs more.... but for me I prefer developer. But I own resale as well.

However I know trading power very well and am aware I pay the exchange fee every time and resort fees and electricity charges, u will pay all those nickel and dime fees using resale.

Having been an owner for 20 years. I've actually looked at what I've spent the the last 20 years because over the last 2 days A few site monitors made me question what I own. One accused me being a company spy. Lol.

I will show you my silly spreadsheets. But I think buying direct has been good for me. I like it becaUse it's easier, less headaches and it works better. It just does. If you want to spend hours a week trying to get an amazing trade then buy resale.
My time is too valuable. I want the place when I want and what unit. Life's too short. Resale is so frustrating. To what save a few thousand dollars over 30 years and so much time trying to trade and get the worst rooms. It's Not worth it.
Everyone will disagree but that's fine. At least you hear the truth from a platinum WYN Owner, Platinum Diamond Ownwr and resale of Westin. I own a lot. I don't own any garage weeks in Branson or Florida. Never buy vegas or anywhere where they keep building.

 THE Wyndham and Diamond is just so much easier to use and exchanging is annoying now. I want the unit, upgrade and property I want. I'm sick of bartering all day on RCI. RCI is garbage. 

[Redacted:  sounds too much like an Ad.]

I've used and gotten way more out of my developer points than resale. It's easier and I make more money on it.

I have no clue why I post on here because I've realized today that redweek and this forum is basically resellers bashing developers weeks or points to have them sell your weeks or points for only $2000. The developer offers me more then what I've got offered from redweek. Stay away from redweek.

This is all weird Because when I tell someone the truth they call me names or a troll. Not sure what a troll is but I think it's bad.

Best of luck to you!


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## bnoble (Dec 22, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> THE Wyndham and Diamond is just so much easier to use and exchanging is annoying now. I want the unit, upgrade and property I want. I'm sick of bartering all day on RCI. RCI is garbage.


It's worth pointing out that, for Wyndham, there is no difference in booking Wyndham properties using resale vs. developer points. They "spend" exactly the same in-system. As noted above, they don't spend the same when crossing over to WorldMark, but if one were doing that regularly, buying WM resale might make more sense.

However, for Diamond, it works a little differently. You have to buy from them to be in The Club. The Club is a pastiche of a variety of smaller collections and individual resorts. If you buy a Diamond property on the secondary market, you only have rights to the collection from which the resort came, and would need to use some third party exchange system to book outside of it.


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## Barblich (Dec 22, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> VIP is only developer. You get what you pay for.
> 
> Developer works and costs more.... but for me I prefer developer. But I own resale as well.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, you get bashed because all of our combined experience, years of trading and owning have told us that the economics of buying retail just don't add up. People who buy resale learn to work the system as I was attempting to do with my original question. I have never bought retail but I was first exposed to timesharing by someone who did and who never regretted it (Although he still only gets that 1 week a year.)  I don't profess to be the expert. In fact, compared to many of the TUG members I'm a neophyte. However, my purchases (all of  them the bargain basement variety mostly from Ebay) are diverse and were purchased because of the access they give me to inventory. I also keep track of my yearly TS expenses. All of my purchase costs, yearly maintenance fees, exchange fees and misc RCI & II fees over the last 10 years still do not come close to the cost of one average retail purchase ($36K  to date.) I own 11 timeshares, some in the big chains and some independents. I own weeks and points and I am a member of both RCI & II. Yes, it takes a bit of work to get some of those great, hard to get exchanges but every Holiday season I spend 2 weeks on a warm beach, many Summer weeks in the mountains or at the seaside and I have stayed at several urban locations (Chicago, San Diego, San Antonio) when visiting family or friends. This coming summer I'm spending a few days in NYC at Midtown 45 and I'm starting to plan a trip to the South Pacific that will cost me a tenth of what it would if I didn't have access to TS inventory. I'm a teacher who is always stuck traveling on the school calendar and I make it work. I'm just trying to make my purchases work as hard as they can too.


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## Jan M. (Dec 22, 2016)

Barblich said:


> Unfortunately, you get bashed because all of our combined experience, years of trading and owning have told us that the economics of buying retail just don't add up. People who buy resale learn to work the system as I was attempting to do with my original question. I have never bought retail but I was first exposed to timesharing by someone who did and who never regretted it (Although he still only gets that 1 week a year.)  I don't profess to be the expert. In fact, compared to many of the TUG members I'm a neophyte. However, my purchases (all of  them the bargain basement variety mostly from Ebay) are diverse and were purchased because of the access they give me to inventory. I also keep track of my yearly TS expenses. All of my purchase costs, yearly maintenance fees, exchange fees and misc RCI & II fees over the last 10 years still do not come close to the cost of one average retail purchase ($36K  to date.) I own 11 timeshares, some in the big chains and some independents. I own weeks and points and I am a member of both RCI & II. Yes, it takes a bit of work to get some of those great, hard to get exchanges but every Holiday season I spend 2 weeks on a warm beach, many Summer weeks in the mountains or at the seaside and I have stayed at several urban locations (Chicago, San Diego, San Antonio) when visiting family or friends. This coming summer I'm spending a few days in NYC at Midtown 45 and I'm starting to plan a trip to the South Pacific that will cost me a tenth of what it would if I didn't have access to TS inventory. I'm a teacher who is always stuck traveling on the school calendar and I make it work. I'm just trying to make my purchases work as hard as they can too.



It sounds like you are doing a great job making your points work for you! 

It is my belief that an owner who is willing to plan ahead to decide and keep track of when and where they want to go and be on the website when it opens the day that time can first be booked will be able to get the vacations they want especially if they can use the one and two bedroom units or even the two bedroom lock off units. The problem many people have is that they want the three and four bedroom units which are more difficult to get because there just aren't as many of them as there are of the smaller units. It is also possible to get some great last minute vacations if you are willing to be on the website when it first opens and the last 45 minutes before it closes. 

It helps if you are open to new places and willing to be adventurous. When we lived up North before moving to Florida 6 years ago we would go to Myrtle Beach but I never considered going to a Florida beach in June or July. I wouldn't recommend planning a Florida beach vacation in August, but I wouldn't go to Myrtle beach then either as it is usually too hot, humid and rainy. Since moving to Florida we have stayed at a number of wonderful resorts through RCI; resorts in Sarasota, Sanibel Island, Captiva, Naples, Marco Island, Stuart, Cocoa Beach and Key Largo.


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## Barblich (Dec 22, 2016)

Thanx Jan. I am doing what works for me. I'll also add that, unlike many others on this forum, I usually attend the "Owners Update" whenever offered to me, which is usually 75% of my TS stays. The offered gift $75-150 defrays my exchange fee. I'm always upfront with the salesperson and as soon as they realize I know something about the industry and what they are selling I'm usually out of there in under an hour. And sometimes I learn something that adds to my knowledge and, because I understand the market, I never get tempted to buy from them, although I occassionally might then go to my resale avenues to see if I want to add to my portfolio. Over Labor Day Weekend I was at Bonnet Creek and was offered $75 or a 3 or 4 day cruise aboard the NCL Norwegian Sky for 2. (That's the new Wyndham Cruise Partner) Yes, it cost me the port charges of $104 per person & Tips, but that's it. Had a great cruise that, even discounted, would have cost me a minimum of $500 for the two of us in addition to what I paid. Of course, already being a South Florida resident meant that I didn't have to fly as well.


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## Jan M. (Dec 22, 2016)

Barblich said:


> Thanx Jan. I am doing what works for me. I'll also add that, unlike many others on this forum, I usually attend the "Owners Update" whenever offered to me, which is usually 75% of my TS stays. The offered gift $75-150 defrays my exchange fee. I'm always upfront with the salesperson and as soon as they realize I know something about the industry and what they are selling I'm usually out of there in under an hour. And sometimes I learn something that adds to my knowledge and, because I understand the market, I never get tempted to buy from them, although I occassionally might then go to my resale avenues to see if I want to add to my portfolio. Over Labor Day Weekend I was at Bonnet Creek and was offered $75 or a 3 or 4 day cruise aboard the NCL Norwegian Sky for 2. (That's the new Wyndham Cruise Partner) Yes, it cost me the port charges of $104 per person & Tips, but that's it. Had a great cruise that, even discounted, would have cost me a minimum of $500 for the two of us in addition to what I paid. Of course, already being a South Florida resident meant that I didn't have to fly as well.



Hey almost neighbor! We live in Tamarac. I'm very good with using the Wyndham system so if you ever want some help or information PM me.

Whenever we stay at a resort we make it a point to talk to people and ask about the resorts they've stayed at that they would recommend. Once in awhile I've learned some useful information from another owner about the Wyndham system in addition to finding out more about resorts we haven't visited. 

Maybe about 10 years ago I found some VC's that were absolutely wonderful with taking the time to teach me about how the system works and how to use it. I had one of them tell me when to call back that they would most likely be slow and if they weren't busy I got some great teaching sessions. These days I'm finding that sometimes the VC's aren't as knowledgeable as they used to be and as a Presidential Reserve owner I'm supposed to get the most highly trained VC's. Maybe with more people using the website now the VC's aren't the lifeline they used to be.


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## Barblich (Dec 22, 2016)

We really are neighbors. I see you own at Panama City. Loved it there. Great views. I own Desert Club (HICV) in Vegas but have stayed at Grandview and Discovery Beach is where I'm spending the next two weeks. Thanx for the offer of your Wyndham expertise. I tend to use my Wyndham points for those urban adventurers of mine.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 22, 2016)

Barblich said:


> Unfortunately, you get bashed because all of our combined experience, years of trading and owning have told us that the economics of buying retail just don't add up. People who buy resale learn to work the system as I was attempting to do with my original question. I have never bought retail but I was first exposed to timesharing by someone who did and who never regretted it (Although he still only gets that 1 week a year.)  I don't profess to be the expert. In fact, compared to many of the TUG members I'm a neophyte. However, my purchases (all of  them the bargain basement variety mostly from Ebay) are diverse and were purchased because of the access they give me to inventory. I also keep track of my yearly TS expenses. All of my purchase costs, yearly maintenance fees, exchange fees and misc RCI & II fees over the last 10 years still do not come close to the cost of one average retail purchase ($36K  to date.) I own 11 timeshares, some in the big chains and some independents. I own weeks and points and I am a member of both RCI & II. Yes, it takes a bit of work to get some of those great, hard to get exchanges but every Holiday season I spend 2 weeks on a warm beach, many Summer weeks in the mountains or at the seaside and I have stayed at several urban locations (Chicago, San Diego, San Antonio) when visiting family or friends. This coming summer I'm spending a few days in NYC at Midtown 45 and I'm starting to plan a trip to the South Pacific that will cost me a tenth of what it would if I didn't have access to TS inventory. I'm a teacher who is always stuck traveling on the school calendar and I make it work. I'm just trying to make my purchases work as hard as they can too.



I agree. Everyone is different. Both work it's just how much work one wants to do. 

I'm  seeing the end of TPI and other exchanges because unless they keep giving 2 for 1 or higher for prime areas no one will use them and prime properties will become harder and harder to get into because in some places they aren't building anymore. 

You seem very knowledgeable. What's your forecast on the next ten years.
 I'm not happy with RCI and it is seeming to be getting worse. Anything is allowed in and II seems to be getting harder to use because all the premium resorts like Westin/Vistana and Hyatt is only given to Hawaii owners and other places like Atlantis. 
Thanks.


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