# [2008] Diamond Resorts offers buyback for Kaanapali Beach Resort



## PatD (Mar 12, 2008)

I just got a letter from Diamond Resorts offering to buy back my timeshare in Maui at the former Embassy Vacation Resort. I have an original unit and never converted with SunTera or Diamond. Does anyone have experience with this sort of offer? What does this usually mean.

Thanks, 

Pat


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## CharlesS (Mar 13, 2008)

PatD said:


> I have an original unit and never converted with SunTera or Diamond.  What does this usually mean. Thanks, Pat


Pat,

I don't have first hand knowledge but I am guessing that you have a gem (unit, week, or something??) that others would want.

Charles


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## luana (Mar 16, 2008)

*Diamond Resorts Buy Back*

I'd be delighted to hear from Diamond Resorts to buy back the unit we bought through the developer! Ours is deluxe oceanfront but not a specific unit or week. We'd love to know if other people have received this offer as well as to know what you have that Diamond wants.


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## teepeeca (Mar 17, 2008)

I've heard they are offering less than $4000 for an every year oceanfront view.  I have nothing to back that price up, though.

Tony


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## daventrina (Mar 17, 2008)

We'll ask the Diamond folks about it when we are in Tahoe next week...
$4k is what about 20 cents on the $


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## twofortheroad (Mar 27, 2008)

This is a rather long comment to your question but sums up what I think Diamond is trying to accomplish by buying back weeks.  I also have some questions that other owners might be able to comment on.

We recently attended an "owners update" - sales presentation at the Point.

We own two EOY Float/Float units and we have not converted to Sunterra Points - we use our unit every year (we own an odd & an even EOY) and so saw no reason to convert to points.


When Sunterra first began managing the resort we were told by the sales person that we would have no chance of getting ocean front if we did not convert to points. To date as long as we have our reservation in a year in advance we have been given ocean front.

The sales person stated Diamond was a real estate developer; they make their money from developing properties and are not in the management business. They run the exchange system for their owners but there is no charge for exchanges


At this presentation the salesperson tried to sell us points - the only way to get into the point system was to buy points - same as the previous sales presentation.

The new feature is that all points sold in HI are in the HI Trust; the Trust includes all Diamond (Sunterra) located in HI. There is also a Sedona Trust, a Florida Trust, etc. Maintenance fees are based on all HI properties divided by the number of total units. You would have home owner priority at the Point when making a reservation request. Also, all Trust owners have a 13 month reservation window; owners at the Point not in the Trust have the 360 day window. The salesperson also said Diamond is actively purchasing units and they will be put into the Trust; thereby lowering your chances of getting the unit you want.

We had received a letter from Diamond Resorts offering to buy our weeks if we no longer wanted to use them. Also, Diamond does have the ROFR.

My questions for other owners:

I did ask if a person owning points in the Trust would be able to sell their ownership - the answer was yes; it seems to me the ownership would be bought back by the Trust. That would make it seem entirely possible that Diamond would control the inventory.
Do you see this as a real possibility? Also, who controls the Trust?

Can the Trust weeks be given the 13 month window thereby giving them priority over other owners? 

What value do you see in having the points? We were shown the Sunterra Select feature in the exchange system - no charge for exchanges - but since we belong to RCI points, have other timeshares,and are satisfied with what we have I don't think this would benefit us. I just want to make sure I am not missing some feature of Sunterra points.

The salesperson stressed the money invested by Diamond to acquire Sunterra & that they were real estate developers - they made their money from developments period, not management. It would seem that once the property is sold out they would have no financial interest - does this make any sense to you? 

Of course, the offer given us was only good for that day and the sales person was pushing the fear facture pretty heavily. Deals that are only good today and buying from fear rather than need are two purchases we walk away from.


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## Werner (Mar 28, 2008)

We also attended a presentation at Poipu this summer.  We have two Poipu deeded weeks and are in the Diamond points system.  The discussion about whether points are worth it has been going on for years.  If you always use all your weeks at the resort you own there is no reason to have points.  When you trade "weeks" you trade the entire week for someone else's week.  Points are funny money that let you "buy" weeks of unequal value to your own.  In the extreme case we could get more that 4 to 6 weeks of trades for one Poipu week if we traded into "out-of-season" and with less than 60 days notice.  More likely trades are typically 2 weeks in the Caribbean say for 1 Poipu Week.  You also get access to II's resort's which trade typically at 2 in-season weeks for one Poipu week worth of points.  There is also the "Select" group of resorts which are non-Diamond resorts that Diamond members (and non-Diamond members?) own and have deposited with Diamond to get Diamond points.  The can be bought for points or $.  There are also "Getaways" at both Diamond and II that can be bought for cash, usually a good price but most often in off- or shoulder- seasons. 

None of this is as good as it sounds however.  We are having difficulty finding a beach-front resort for Oahu in II for next winter (Diamond doesn't have any).  Many of II's top resorts seem to be names only, there never seem to be units available (Manhatten Club Penthouses, Harbor Club in the Bahamas, etc) however we had a easy time getting weeks into Tahoe last winter (both II and Diamond had units) and Ka'anapali (Diamond) two winters ago.  We are learning how to make the points system work for us.  

If none of this interests you then points probably aren't worth anything to you.  I did not get the impression that the Trust was the only thing you could buy.  It may be the only way to buy points-only.  I assume that they are still selling units with points and offering "free" Diamond membership.  For us the discussion centered around buying some additional trust points to upgrade one "view" level at Poipu.  In the end we decided that it wasn't worth it.


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## CharlesS (Mar 28, 2008)

twofortheroad said:


> You would have home owner priority at the Point when making a reservation request. Also, all Trust owners have a 13 month reservation window; owners at the Point not in the Trust have the 360 day window. The salesperson also said Diamond is actively purchasing units and they will be put into the Trust; thereby lowering your chances of getting the unit you want.
> 
> Can the Trust weeks be given the 13 month window thereby giving them priority over other owners?



At first glance, this appeared illegal.  But as I examined it further, it does appear legal if my first assumption is correct.

The discussion does not pertain to a "fixed" week owner (if any) unless they convert to points.  

I am assuming that the "flex/float" owners have a right of first occupancy to the exact week and unit they are deeded to.  If so, they can legally reserve that unit/week and give it to anyone they want.  By buying Diamond Points, they are saying that they want their exact week and unit every year (legal according to the original deeds) and that each year that unit/week will be given to the Diamond Trust.  Since the Diamond Trust knows it will get that unit/week, it can make reservations for that unit/week even before it gets it (13 months out).

If the owner of that unit/week originally always reserved their unit/week and either used it themselves or gave it to II, nothing would change for the other flex/float owners since they never could get that unit/week.

However, I am guessing that most (or many) flex/float owners did not reserve their unit/week as soon as they could and other flex/float owners would have access to it in a month or so. As such, there were more choices for the "early birds".  However, if the unit/week is given to the Trust, then the flex/float owners will not have access to it.  As more people convert, the more the choices for the non-converters go down.

Please note that all of this is based on the assumption that flex/float owners have a legal right to first occupancy of their unit/week.

In many systems, the actual deed is transferred to the Trust which allows the Trust to really know that they will get that unit/week (ie., no paperwork snafus, maintenance, etc., fees will have been paid on time, etc.)

Is my assumption on first occupancy correct?

Charles


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## Werner (Mar 28, 2008)

re: 13 months.... We have not had any difficulty getting home resort Poipu reservations 12 months out.  Since Poipu is around 90% sold out, I doubt that the extra month will ever make much difference.  Poipu and Ka'anapali are the jewels in the Trust's crown.  Do a search for Ka'anapali and you will see that there are also lots of units available 10 months out.  That's the earliest non-Ka'anapali (and non-Trust) Diamond owners can reserve.  We heard the 13 month story also but it didn't carry much weight with us.

BTW, Diamond member/owners can make reservations 365 days out, non-Diamond owners get 360 days.  As far as I can tell that doesn't make much difference either but we always call 365 days out.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 28, 2008)

CharlesS said:


> Please note that all of this is based on the assumption that flex/float owners have a legal right to first occupancy of their unit/week.
> 
> …
> 
> ...



No.  It is absolutely and totally the opposite.  

The assignment of unit and week number to deeds is solely for inventory tracking purposes (to assure that each interest sold corresponds to a specific real ownership). The CC&R are explicit that an owner has no specific rights of any type associated with the unit and interval in the owner's deed.


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## daventrina (Mar 28, 2008)

Note 1: Diamond at Tahoe only seemed interested in buying our week back if we bought more points in the CA trust.

Note 2: The promised that each ownership type has a separate pool of units to support the required reservations and that they will not allow trust 13 month owners to reserve out of the 12 month pre trust pool.

Note 3: They wanted $16k for 4000 points so we could become élite wherein we would be able to do things that we should be able to do anyway.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 28, 2008)

daventrina said:


> …Note 2: The promised that each ownership type has a separate pool of units to support the required reservations and that they will not allow trust 13 month owners to reserve out of the 12 month pre trust pool.…



The operation of those two pools is something I want to get straightened out some time when I'm at the resort and can talk directly with Patti Ornales, who runs the reservation systems in Hawai'i.


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## Kauai Kid (Mar 28, 2008)

PatD:  I'm sure Diamond Resorts has only your best interests at heart, after all they are only here to help you,  they don't even like to make money unless it is absolutely necessary.

Sterling

ps:  that's why they push so hard on the sales to make sure they help you right away with the Today only pitch.  A fool and their money are soon parted.


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## pgnewarkboy (Mar 28, 2008)

*Kanapaali Beach Resort Maui*

I have an odd and even deeds for a one bedroom deluxe ocean view with floating dates.  Diamond resorts have offered to pay me 8000 for each one.  I have no idea if this is a good deal or not.

Any thoughts and comments appreciated.


Thanks

_*There is an ongoing thread on this topic on the Hawaii Board, so I am going to move your post to that thread.-DeniseM_


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## RichB (Mar 30, 2008)

*offer*

Diamond resorts emailed me an offer of $9000 for an every year one bedroom scenic view with them paying all closing costs etc. 

This is more than we paid 4 years ago but we have had good luck with trading it so we will keep the week. I am guessing they need to build their inventory and this is the driving factor?


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## JoeMid (Mar 30, 2008)

RichB said:


> Diamond resorts emailed me an offer of $9000 for an every year one bedroom scenic view with them paying all closing costs etc.
> 
> This is more than we paid 4 years ago but we have had good luck with trading it so we will keep the week. I am guessing they need to build their inventory and this is the driving factor?


$9K is a lot more reasonable than I'd heard their offers were in the past.  They don't 'need' to build inventory but if they give you $9K for your unit and you average the points for the year.... it will be worth about 8500 points to their Hawaii Trust.  They sell that amount of Hawaii Trust points for $35K, it's just business - that's why they 'need' your inventory.:hysterical:


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## JoeMid (Mar 30, 2008)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I have an odd and even deeds for a one bedroom deluxe ocean view with floating dates.  Diamond resorts have offered to pay me 8000 for each one.  I have no idea if this is a good deal or not.
> 
> Any thoughts and comments appreciated.
> 
> ...


I think $16K for is good if you want out.  They will turn around, put it in the Hawaii Trust and sell the points as NEW for about $50K.  :hysterical:


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## melhed (Jan 7, 2012)

*Diamond Kaanapali*

The postings seem outdated. Recently received along with my 2012 maintenance fee billing, an assessment for rebuilding Poipu Point. A major shock!!!!!!!! Did not realize that I had to pay to rebuild another resort, where I did not own.


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## DeniseM (Jan 7, 2012)

melhed said:


> The postings seem outdated.



It is - you are responding to a post from 2008.


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