# Worldmark Mgt Report - Highlights from Q2 report



## ecwinch (Jun 20, 2019)

The following are highlights from the Q2 Mgt Report that Wyndham makes to the WM BoD every quarter.

By end of 2019 – all WorldMark resorts should have upgraded WiFi

New Resorts
Moab resort construction - delivery Q4/2020 and new SoCal resort near Temecula (north of San Diego, East of LA):


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## geist1223 (Jun 20, 2019)

Boy Murrieta is a place I always wanted to stay. It is always on the top of the list when Members talk about new places for Resorts. We can hardly wait until it is open.


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## presley (Jun 20, 2019)

Murrieta is a totally bizarre place to put a timeshare.


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## K2Quick (Jun 20, 2019)

Hopefully the estimated delivery date of TBD becomes "Never mind. We were just seeing if anyone would buy that we were actually putting a timeshare in Murrieta."  It's kind of telling that they have to put a map on the highlight page.


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## rhonda (Jun 20, 2019)

Arg.  When I'd first heard the rumor of "near Temecula" my brain assumed "_in the Temecula Wine Country_" ... that is, southeast of Temecula.  I'd figured, cool, I might even try a wine-country horse ride.  My brain never guessed Murrieta.  Yep, seems a strange choice ... but if the pools are good ... I'll visit in the hot months, mid-week, as a retreat.


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## JohnPaul (Jun 20, 2019)

As noted elsewhere, these were the initial reactions to Indio.


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## rhonda (Jun 20, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> ... these were the initial reactions to Indio.


Funny.  I was thinking the same thing!


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## clifffaith (Jun 20, 2019)

We have thought for years that Temecula would be a great place for a Worldmark. I guess Murrieta is close enough. We just spent our first full week in Pismo (we go for four days at a time several times a year since it is four hours away), and have the same week next year "because it was there". As we were leaving we commented that once we move to the Carlsbad CCRC there will be no reason to ever go to Pismo again as a destination since we will be living at the beach. But having a new resort in Murietta will be great to take a break from the Old Folks Home!


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## bbodb1 (Jun 20, 2019)

clifffaith said:


> We have thought for years that Temecula would be a great place for a Worldmark. I guess Murrieta is close enough. *We just spent our first full week in Pismo* (we go for four days at a time several times a year since it is four hours away), and have the same week next year "because it was there". As we were leaving we commented that once we move to the Carlsbad CCRC there will be no reason to ever go to Pismo again as a destination since we will be living at the beach. But having a new resort in Murietta will be great to take a break from the Old Folks Home!




I have to say, the above made me think of this:


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## sparty (Jun 21, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> The following are highlights from the Q2 Mgt Report that Wyndham makes to the WM BoD every quarter.
> 
> By end of 2019 – all WorldMark resorts should have upgraded WiFi
> 
> ...



Amazing to me that Worldmark has plans for or recently completed new resorts where others like Marriott are selling off land and cutting back on long standing expansion plans.


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## Firepath (Jun 22, 2019)

My Dad and his wife lived in Murrieta for several years. The only thing I recall them mentioning about Murrieta is that the traffic was so bad that they could only leave the house for errands and such mid day. We experienced that as well when we visited so I know they weren't exaggerating. I know there is a golf course or two nearby, but nothing else of interest that I can recall.


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## uscav8r (Jun 25, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> As noted elsewhere, these were the initial reactions to Indio.



Indio does host the Coachella festival, which is a huge draw. Murrieta has what?

Maybe proximity to wineries will be its saving grace.


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## ecwinch (Jun 25, 2019)

So build more resorts that are highly sought for three weeks a year?


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## uscav8r (Jun 25, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> So build more resorts that are highly sought for three weeks a year?



Or places that are not sought after at all? 


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## ecwinch (Jun 25, 2019)

Members from cold climates
Proximity to San Diego/LA

There are other timeshares in the area - 3 Welk resorts - it will find it's following just like Indio. It does not need to be the best or perfect location, to be a good location.


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## ocdb8r (Jun 25, 2019)

Doesn't the past lawsuit play into this in some way?  I thought WM was under an obligation to continue to ensure a certain percentage of units adhere to the original points charts, meaning that for every "Estancia" type development they open, they've got to balance it with somewhere "cheap" they can open at original point chart rates - hence places like Murrieta.  I could be remembering this all wrong.


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## CO skier (Jun 25, 2019)

ocdb8r said:


> Doesn't the past lawsuit play into this in some way?  I thought WM was under an obligation to continue to ensure a certain percentage of units adhere to the original points charts,


No, this was not part of the lawsuit settlement.  The settlement affirmed the Developer's right to bring new resorts into WorldMark at credit values deemed "reasonable" by the Developer.

I am sure that Murrieta will not be a "cheap" resort, but it might be a good value for the area like many other WorldMark resorts.

Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples.  Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".


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## uscav8r (Jun 25, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> Members from cold climates
> Proximity to San Diego/LA
> 
> There are other timeshares in the area - 3 Welk resorts - it will find it's following just like Indio. It does not need to be the best or perfect location, to be a good location.



IIRC, Welk has one or more resorts on the coast in that area. A better option would have been a new resort actually on the coast/beach in that area. WM Oceanside is far from it. 

In any case, the new resort debate is not something I get too worked up over. At least until I can move westward. 


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## LisaH (Jun 25, 2019)

Moab, yes! Murrieta, bizarre.
Speaking of WiFi, is it going to be free? This is the only timeshare system I own that still charges for WiFi. Went to Klamath Falls last month. Great resort but no cellular signal inside the unit. We had to cough up the money for WiFi


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## rhonda (Jun 25, 2019)

Murrieta as a "Disneyland" location:

By Rail:

Drive 25 minutes to the Perris South Metrolink Station (free parking)
Take the Metrolink 91 to Fullerton ($20 r/t?)
Transfer to the Metrolink Orange Line to Anaheim's ARTIC
Transfer to an Anaheim Regional Transit (ART) bus to Disneyland
By Bus:

Drive 45 minutes to the Riverside-La Sierra Metrolink Station (free parking)
Take the RTA Bus 200 to Disneyland ($3 each way; $7/day)
(Ummm ... guess who just bought new Disneyland Annual Passes?? I've been trying to figure out the best/cheapest/easiest ways to reach DL from the Temecula area.)


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## geist1223 (Jun 25, 2019)

On WMOWNERS 2 people that have visited this area many times have nothing good to say about this area. The visited because family located there or their Church owned property there.


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## rhonda (Jun 25, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> On WMOWNERS 2 people that have visited this area many times have nothing good to say about this area. The visited because family located there or their Church owned property there.


I'm not comfortable with the WM Clear Lake _area_ either ... but the property itself is peaceful and attractive.


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## geist1223 (Jun 25, 2019)

We use to stop at Clear Lake for a day or two of peace and quiet on our way to or coming from Windsor. We have not done this in several years. It just became too out of the way.


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## LisaH (Jun 25, 2019)

My son and his girlfriend also bought annual passes now that they live in SoCal, but have not found time to visit yet. There are a lot of blackout dates and the entire summer season is not good for pass-holders. Hope you have better luck than them. 



rhonda said:


> Murrieta as a "Disneyland" location:
> 
> By Rail:
> 
> ...


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## rhonda (Jun 25, 2019)

LisaH said:


> My son and his girlfriend also bought annual passes now that they live in SoCal, but have not found time to visit yet. There are a lot of blackout dates and the entire summer season is not good for pass-holders. Hope you have better luck than them.


We purchased the new FLEX pass and are really happy with it thus far.  This pass includes the summer months (phew!) using a "reservation" system.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 26, 2019)

I am hoping they build this to a higher standard of amenities than is typical for WM. (Ie lazy river, water slide, etc). I think the land should be cheap enough to make that possible.

If they do that, I would definitely consider adding days on to a disneyland trip there for some post-Disney RnR.


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## ocdb8r (Jun 26, 2019)

CO skier said:


> No, this was not part of the lawsuit settlement.  The settlement affirmed the Developer's right to bring new resorts into WorldMark at credit values deemed "reasonable" by the Developer.
> 
> I am sure that Murrieta will not be a "cheap" resort, but it might be a good value for the area like many other WorldMark resorts.
> 
> Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples.  Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".



Thanks, CO skier...my memory was fuzzy about what specifically was said.

I also think the standard of resorts has slipped a bit (both at new and existing properties) which I think is part of the reality of having a cap on maintenance fee increases.  That said, I'm still quite happy with my most recent stays and am glad there's an option out there like WM that maintains some predictability on maintenance fee costs.  Not everything has to try to be like the big name brand resorts.  I do wish we'd diversify East a bit more (and yes, I understand where the ownerbase is concentrated...but we're all mobile) and that new properties didn't come on at such an enormous premium over the original resorts.  It's nice that my maintenance fees are predictable but my actual accommodation costs are not as I can't really predict what my cost in points will be in the future (if I want to access the newer resorts).


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## sparty (Jun 28, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples.  Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".



And that is a major understatement.  Not sure I would let my Bulldog vacation at those resorts...


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## bbodb1 (Jun 28, 2019)

CO skier said:


> ...Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples.  Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".



I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to. 
If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.


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## rhonda (Jun 28, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to.
> If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.


Agreed!  We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section _really matters_ when visiting Pagosa!


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## CO skier (Jul 6, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to.
> If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.





rhonda said:


> Agreed!  We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section _really matters_ when visiting Pagosa!


How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that _really matters _and not "never again"?  That is what really matters.


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## JohnPaul (Jul 7, 2019)

Reservations starting in 2020 specify which section you are in.


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## uscav8r (Jul 7, 2019)

CO skier said:


> How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that _really matters _and not "never again"?  That is what really matters.



The quality varies by HOA and the WM booking system identifies the HOA for most units in the drop down list. I think the only exceptions are the 2BR Deluxe and Loft. I would also compare that to the Club Pass credit charts. 

Look up the Pagosa reviews on TUG, Redweek, and other travel sites to see if you can discern any trends. 

From what I can tell, the newer (and nicer) Teal Landing and Peregrine HOAs are not available via direct WM booking. Maybe they are available through Club Pass. 



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## rhonda (Jul 7, 2019)

CO skier said:


> How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that _really matters _and not "never again"?  That is what really matters.


The units to which WM reservations are assigned should be "brought up to standards" _before_ occupancy.  Just get the units restored!


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## uscav8r (Jul 7, 2019)

rhonda said:


> Agreed!  We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section _really matters_ when visiting Pagosa!



Do you recall which section/HOA fell into which category?


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## rhonda (Jul 8, 2019)

uscav8r said:


> Do you recall which section/HOA fell into which category?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My "never again" are: Ptarmigan and Eagles Loft (the pedestal units)


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## rhonda (Aug 16, 2019)

CO skier said:


> How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that _really matters _and not "never again"?  That is what really matters.


Have you seen the new booking categories for WM Pagosa?  20 different choices ... *LOL, we've been heard!!*

1 Bedroom
1 Bedroom - Ptarmigan 
1 Bedroom - Village Pointe 
1 Bedroom Deluxe
1 Bedroom Deluxe Special Needs
1 Bedroom Special Needs
1 Bedroom SN - Ptarmigan 
1 Bedroom SN - Village Pointe 
1 Bedroom Suite - Ptarmigan 
1 Bedroom Suite - Village Poin 
1 Bd Suite SN - Ptarmigan
1 Bd Suite SN - Village Pointe 
2 Bedroom Deluxe
2 Bedroom Dlx - Elk Run 
2 Bedroom Dlx - Masters Place 
2 Bedroom Deluxe Special Needs
2 Bedroom Dlx SN - Elk Run 
2 Bedroom Dlx SN - Masters Pla 
2 Bedroom Loft
2 Bedroom Loft - Eagles Loft
So, it appears that "1 Bedroom Suite" is the small size of a 2BR lockout.  I'm guessing "1 Bedroom Deluxe" is the larger side of the same based on historical stays but that one might choose a specific _section _(Ptarmigan or Village Pointe) even though the qualifier "Deluxe" is omitted from these booking categories?

FWIW, I just booked a [1BR - Village Pointe] for our 2020 visit.

Edited to add:  After playing with inventory for Fall 2020, I suspect the intention is drop the categories that do not mention the section, such as "1 Bedroom Deluxe" once all reservations booked into that category have passed.  Future inventory appears to be mostly segregated by section with the odd "single night" showing up here and there in the unqualified categories.


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## JohnPaul (Aug 17, 2019)

rhonda said:


> The units to which WM reservations are assigned should be "brought up to standards" _before_ occupancy.  Just get the units restored!



Unfortunately WM does not own the units - just some weeks.  As such it’s up to the HOA to decide on renovations.


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## bbodb1 (Aug 17, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> Unfortunately WM does not own the units - just some weeks.  As such it’s up to the HOA to decide on renovations.



This does raise a question in my mind - at some point, one would think WorldMark would review (inspect) the accommodations they are offering to ensure they meet a reasonable minimum standard of quality and comfort.  In the case of Pagosa Springs, some of the villages Rhonda mentions above really are not at a level of quality a reasonable person would expect with respect to a timeshare stay.  Why does WorldMark continue to offer them?


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## ecwinch (Aug 19, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> This does raise a question in my mind - at some point, one would think WorldMark would review (inspect) the accommodations they are offering to ensure they meet a reasonable minimum standard of quality and comfort.  In the case of Pagosa Springs, some of the villages Rhonda mentions above really are not at a level of quality a reasonable person would expect with respect to a timeshare stay.  Why does WorldMark continue to offer them?



Because Worldmark owns those interests. As far as I know there is no process for the Worldmark BoD to take units out of the system because they are below standard.

And since the Club does not own any credits (members do), it would be messy to do so (if they could).


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## geist1223 (Aug 19, 2019)

So let's say  WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?


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## CO skier (Aug 20, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> So let's say  WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?


The simplest and most likely scenario would be the reverse of when new resorts are added.

Wyndham would just retire enough of its Developer credits to "pay" for the entire resort.


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## ecwinch (Aug 23, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> So let's say  WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?



That is what the Declaration says. As is noted above, Club Wyndham certainly could step in and make the Club whole by swapping credits for the WM interest.


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## CO skier (Aug 23, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> That is what the Declaration says. As is noted above, Club Wyndham certainly could step in and make the Club whole by swapping credits for the WM interest.


That is how the Wixon unit extractions were handled.


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## Andy Reinelt (Nov 14, 2019)

presley said:


> Murrieta is a totally bizarre place to put a timeshare.


I go to Temecula 5 to 6 times a year for wine tasting.  Glad there will be a place to stay there!!  been looking forward to a resort there!!


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## bizaro86 (Nov 14, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> Because Worldmark owns those interests. As far as I know there is no process for the Worldmark BoD to take units out of the system because they are below standard.
> 
> And since the Club does not own any credits (members do), it would be messy to do so (if they could).



The right time to ensure the units were up to par was when Wyndham put them in.


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## geist1223 (Nov 14, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> The right time to ensure the units were up to par was when Wyndham put them in.


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## ecwinch (Nov 16, 2019)

geist1223 said:


>



And perfect is the enemy of the good.

Because what benefits the Club more - having a resort there - albeit an inperfect one - or not having a resort there at all?

Many owners have complained that the new resorts cost too many credits. So one solution to that problem is these type of deals - where we bring in these older resorts that may not initially be up to WM standards. Now the pundits will say "they should upgrade the units before placing them into inventory". And I would agree with that premise to some degree. But I also know that these types of deals are complicated - because we may not be receiving dedicated wholly-owned units where we can remodel them up to WM standards. In some cases - these are a mixed bag of timeshare weeks - which means we cannot do that.

So in those cases, we have to wait unit the controlling HOA votes to remodel the resort.

So accept a sub-par resort for a period of time or not have a resort there at all? I personally would rather have more options, but I understand that others might feel differently. Those owners have the option of not staying there until the units come up to WM standards.


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## JohnPaul (Nov 16, 2019)

The only problem with the above description is that WM owners have a certain expectation for our resorts and their is nothing to let us know (short of these forums) that any given resort is not up to par.

It took 3 years after my initial and significant requests to update the website (for WM Pagosa)  to more accurate information before any changes were made.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 16, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> And perfect is the enemy of the good.
> 
> Because what benefits the Club more - having a resort there - albeit an inperfect one - or not having a resort there at all?
> 
> ...



While I sympathize with your point, ultimately adding low quality resorts to the club dilutes the value and usability of what we all own. I agree that taking something imperfect would be ok, especially if there is a plan to improve it AND it is communicated to members prior to booking what they are getting. Whether it will be getting remodelled to WM standards matters here imo. If the HOA never intends to do that I would be in favor of not taking the resort.


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## pedro47 (Nov 16, 2019)

To all the posters thanks for sharing your very strong feelings about WM and this resort. IMO


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## ecwinch (Nov 16, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> While I sympathize with your point, ultimately adding low quality resorts to the club dilutes the value and usability of what we all own. I agree that taking something imperfect would be ok, especially if there is a plan to improve it AND it is communicated to members prior to booking what they are getting. Whether it will be getting remodelled to WM standards matters here imo. If the HOA never intends to do that I would be in favor of not taking the resort.



And I would likewise agree that we should never take on a resort if it can never upgraded to WM standards. 

As I seem to recall we heard similar complaints when one of the Palm Springs/Desert resorts was added (?Cathedral City maybe), but that seems to have blown over.


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