# Non-Owner With Questions Galore



## gdunn (Sep 6, 2012)

I just joined and I have read through the guide listed at the top.

I went through a presentation in Branson this past weekend.

They made a good offer, but like we told them the timing was bad. My fiancee and I are getting married next year and at the moment we're living off my salary. TMI, so we really couldn't afford anything like that. We were interested in what we saw though. Especially seeing Wyndham has resorts in both Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge (an area we love) and Myrtle Beach. Along with Colorado (where we both want to visit) and several others.

Is it better to buy through Wyndham or a re-sale like off of eBay? I understand that we wouldn't get the perks if we done it off of eBay but it would be tons cheaper.

Now if you bought via eBay could the points still be used for cruises, airline tickets, etc?

Lastly, why are people getting out? Is it a time thing?


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## glypnirsgirl (Sep 7, 2012)

People get out for a few different reasons. Among the most common are (1) never learning to use what they bought; (2) financial strain making it difficult to travel and/or pay on-going maintenance fees; (3) physical limitations. 

I bought my timeshare while in my thirties and I think that it is great to go ahead and buy one while you are young. More time to enjoy your travels.

I suggest that there is no way that air fare and cruises could make up the price differential between ebay and Wyndham. I regularly see Wyndham Smokey Mountain for sale --- and it is a great place with reasonable MFs.

Look for ads that list "free closing."

Happy trails to you!

elaine


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## ronparise (Sep 7, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> People get out for a few different reasons. Among the most common are (1) never learning to use what they bought; (2) financial strain making it difficult to travel and/or pay on-going maintenance fees; (3) physical limitations.
> 
> I bought my timeshare while in my thirties and I think that it is great to go ahead and buy one while you are young. More time to enjoy your travels.
> 
> ...



I wouldnt be swayed by the ads that offer free closing and transfer. These ads tend to attract the inexperienced buyers who think that thats all that makes a good deal. and the thing gets bid up to more than its worth

just decide what the right price is for you, factor in the costs and transfer fees and bid accordingly

Ive seen more than one sale, with high costs,  go cheap, because all the bidders were scared off by those fees


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## learnalot (Sep 7, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> People get out for a few different reasons. Among the most common are (1) never learning to use what they bought; (2) financial strain making it difficult to travel and/or pay on-going maintenance fees; (3) physical limitations.
> 
> I bought my timeshare while in my thirties and I think that it is great to go ahead and buy one while you are young. More time to enjoy your travels.
> 
> ...



Just to expand on Elaine's comments slightly, resale purchases do have the optuon to purchase Plus Partners from the developer to give more options to their points' usage, including airfare, etc.  I don't recall the exact price but it is somewhere in the ballpark of $2995.  Generally speaking, though it is hardly ever economical to spend your points on airfare in terms of bang for your buck.  IMO, the only semi compelling reason to consider adding Plus Partners would be for access to RCI points and RCI nightly stays.  Stick around for awhile and ask questions and learn before you buy.


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## Renny30 (Sep 7, 2012)

Buying resale is the way to go. Forgot developer perks. 

I agree with Ron that the Ebay ads with free closing cost tend to not be cost effective. The bids go extremely high. Keep an eye out  here on Tug and in the Marketplace. Redweek is also a great place. I returned from a trip to Wyndham Smoky Mountains in July, visited Redweek and spotted a new add for Smoky Mountain points. I contacted the seller and long story short, I got my points for the $299 transfer free. I think I was plenty lucky, but even if you don't get as lucky as I did, you can find good deals. Good luck looking. Wyndham has some very nice resorts.

One other suggestion, make a list of places you know you want to go for the next five years. Use the Wyndham directory and figure out how many points you need. A Tugger recommended that to me and it was really great advice. You won't over buy. 

Good luck looking.


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## am1 (Sep 7, 2012)

Until you learn more and are in a better financial position you will have better luck renting from another owner.


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm not buying anything until the fiancee gets out of nursing school and we put her to work  

With Wyndham do you have to have a home resort?

Meaning if I would've bought the points in Branson this past weekend would Branson been my home resort but I could've used the points wherever?

The one complaint I have besides them not wanting to take no for an answer is that instead of putting us up at the resort to let us check it out, they had us in some motel in the heart of Branson.

But we've been talking since Saturday and in 20 months (that gives us ample time to have her out of school and we should be moved to another location by then, and she should be working) we can re-visit this. I do want to become as informed as possible. We've discussed Wyndham or just buying us a place in the mountains somewhere.

I have a buddy that's with BlueGreen and I'll probably be gauging him on his experiences here in a couple of weeks.


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## rrlongwell (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> I'm not buying anything until the fiancee gets out of nursing school and we put her to work
> 
> With Wyndham do you have to have a home resort?
> 
> ...



You home resort would have been Branson or the Club Wyndham Access home resorts (other possability would be a different Wyndham resort that they are helping out to sell). depending on the contract they would have sold you. 

From the looks of it, you received or bought a vacation with a sales presentation required.  

The points can be used thoughout the Wyndham Club Plus season anywhere at the 10 months point based on availablity.  Home resort, 13 month out, as a general rule.  Some are 11 months if it is receiprical ARP.


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## Renny30 (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> I'm not buying anything until the fiancee gets out of nursing school and we put her to work
> 
> With Wyndham do you have to have a home resort?
> 
> ...



They put you in the tiny hotel room so you can marvel at the size of the unit at the resort. Worked didn't it?  

I'll let more veteran members answer the rest.  If you do a search on the posts made by me you'll learn a lot. I've been asking questions for months and getting great answers.


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## Rent_Share (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> I have a buddy that's with BlueGreen and I'll probably be gauging him on his experiences here in a couple of weeks.


 

Now that's a gage if friendship, If he recommends a developer purchase, he is no friend.

Take the time your wife is in school to become a timeshare scholar, rent from an owner at "mini system" that peeks your interest.


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Now that's a gage if friendship, If he recommends a developer purchase, he is no friend.



:rofl: 

Ah he's pretty straight forward. We've only discussed timeshares briefly. He and his wife invited us over to Gatlinburg a few years ago when they were there using their time share. I think they go there every other year.. I think they went to Branson one year, Vegas last year, and next year for our wedding they're doing a resort and will be letting several other friends stay with them.

I know they enjoy theirs, but I'm not sure how they came about the points. I know he's an eBay freak, so he might've gotten them there.


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## Rent_Share (Sep 7, 2012)

When  you said "he is with Blue Green"  I assumed you meant he was an employee. 

Not sure how many people could look you in the eye and say, I make a living by stretching the truth (lying) and selling people a product for 15 - 40 thousand dollars that they would be lucky to get a few hundred dollars for in 7 days. 

Then there are the developer purchasers who continue to sip on the Kool Aide rather than admit their mistakes


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> When  you said "he is with Blue Green"  I assumed you meant he was an employee.
> 
> Not sure how many people could look you in the eye and say, I make a living by stretching the truth (lying) and selling people a product for 15 - 40 thousand dollars that they would be lucky to get a few hundred dollars for in 7 days.
> 
> Then there are the developer purchasers who continue to sip on the Kool Aide rather than admit their mistakes



Yea.. I probably should've made myself more clear.

So let me ask this now, cause I've been looking through the 2011-2012 points guide up at the top. The salesman told us we could bank points or it would act as a rollover. Is there any truth to that? I mean if we buy decide say 154k points and decide that we're not going to use them, next year at the anniversary does that mean we'd have 308k points?


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

Another question and I see this frequently with reviews and such..

If I were to buy into Wyndham or any "vacation ownership", would I have to subject myself to a 2 hour presentation every time or "owner's meeting"?


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Another question and I see this frequently with reviews and such..
> 
> If I were to buy into Wyndham or any "vacation ownership", would I have to subject myself to a 2 hour presentation every time or "owner's meeting"?



No...just politely decline the invitation and then unplug your phone


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Yea.. I probably should've made myself more clear.
> 
> So let me ask this now, cause I've been looking through the 2011-2012 points guide up at the top. The salesman told us we could bank points or it would act as a rollover. Is there any truth to that? I mean if we buy decide say 154k points and decide that we're not going to use them, next year at the anniversary does that mean we'd have 308k points?



Your points expire at the end of your use year. If you know before your use year begins that you're not going to use your points, you could pool your points ahead of time and they would be usable for three years. On the other hand if you haven't pooled your points and find that at the end of the year you still have points then you can deposit them into RCI.


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## Rent_Share (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> If I were to buy into Wyndham or any "vacation ownership", would I have to subject myself to a 2 hour presentation every time or "owner's meeting"?


 
Only if you enjoy being lied to and berated for 2 - 3 hours in exchange for a "gift" 

My wife and I have been to two in the last seven years, held out for a free weekend "at a Diamond Resorts International Property" in addition to the $100 offered, At the end of the second one we vowed *NEVER AGAIN*

You will find people in here that claim they are excused in 20 minutes once the representative finds out they bought resale . . . .


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> Your points expire at the end of your use year. If you know before your use year begins that you're not going to use your points, you could pool your points ahead of time and they would be usable for three years. On the other hand if you haven't pooled your points and find that at the end of the year you still have points then you can deposit them into RCI.



Wow.. A salesman lied to me, :rofl:


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Wow.. A salesman lied to me, :rofl:



There's a saying here on Tug: If a salesman lips are moving they're lying


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## rrlongwell (Sep 7, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> There's a saying here on Tug: If a salesman lips are moving they're lying



I am shocked !!!!! a Wyndham salesrep lie?  

Here, I just thought they did not know how to tell the truth.


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

So the MFs.. Are they cheaper at different resorts?


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## scootr5 (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> So the MFs.. Are they cheaper at different resorts?



Yes, they range from around to $3.50 per thousand to over $7, depending on the resort.


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## gdunn (Sep 7, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> Yes, they range from around to $3.50 per thousand to over $7, depending on the resort.



Is there a guide that shows that?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 7, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Is there a guide that shows that?



None that is sanctioned by Wyndham that I know of.  I think it varies so much by a variety of different factors that it would be all but impossable to keep one current.  National Harbor, Towers on the Grove, Grand Dessert, and Smokey Mountain are among the lowest that I am aware of.  

Hope this helps.  Maybe others can provide some info on other resorts.

There are a few on E-Bay for Smokey Mountain.  Did not check the rest.  Grand Desser usally has some.  National Harbor and Towers on the Grove tend to be less frequent.

Here is an example for Towers on the Grove and Smokey Mounatain:

Contract Type: Undivided Interest (UDI)
Points: 84,000

Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.34
Maintenance Fees: (84,000 / 1000) * $3.03 = $254.52 
Reserve Fund: (84,000 / 1000) * $1.05 = $88.20 
Property Tax: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.26 = $21.84 
Total HOA Fee: (84,000 / 1000) * $4.34 = $364.56 

Program Fee
Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.53
Program Fee: (84,000 / 1000) * $0.53 = $44.52 

CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Assessment
Annual Fee: $364.56 + $44.52 = $409.08 
* Monthly Fee: $409.08 / 12 = $34.09

Contract Type: Undivided Interest (UDI)
Points: 77,000

Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.17
Maintenance Fees: (77,000 / 1000) * $3.18 = $244.86 
Reserve Fund: (77,000 / 1000) * $0.88 = $67.76 
Property Tax: (77,000 / 1000) * $0.11 = $8.47 
Total HOA Fee: (77,000 / 1000) * $4.17 = $321.09 

Program Fee
Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.53
Program Fee: (77,000 / 1000) * $0.53 = $40.81 

CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Assessment
Annual Fee: $321.09 + $40.81 = $361.90 
* Monthly Fee: $361.90 / 12 = $30.16

If there are specific resorts you are interested in, you may want to post their names and maybe a owner there can post the info for that resort.


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## staceyeileen (Sep 7, 2012)

There is a spreadsheet on the wyndha owners forum that has current and historical MFs for each resort.


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## massvacationer (Sep 7, 2012)

staceyeileen said:


> There is a spreadsheet on the wyndha owners forum that has current and historical MFs for each resort.



yes - go to:

forums.atozed.com


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## Crohnos01 (Sep 8, 2012)

So does it cause a rift in the fabric of the time space continuum if a Wyndham sales rep says " I'm lying" ?  You know, because if their lips move, they are lying, but if they say they are lying, they are telling the truth.....oh right...I forgot.  Hell would freeze over before they said they were lying....


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## gdunn (Sep 8, 2012)

So let's talk taxes.. How does this affect income taxes? Any at all?


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## scootr5 (Sep 8, 2012)

gdunn said:


> So let's talk taxes.. How does this affect income taxes? Any at all?



Not really. If you itemize, you _might_ be able to include any property taxes paid (of course, I am not a tax advisor, so YMMV).


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 8, 2012)

Yes, you can deduct  your pro-rata share of  property taxes actually paid by the resort in 2012  on Schedule A!

You CANNOT   legally deduct the budgeted amount for 2012 or 2013.

It will probably be challenging to get resort to provide the correct amount on their  letterhead!

In reality,  I doubt IRS will boil you in oil if you claim the 2012 budgeted amount as it is probably only off a buck or two.


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## gdunn (Sep 8, 2012)

Ok.. So let me get this right:

I can buy resale points at a lower rate than I could from a developer with the exception of the perks card and VIP Status.

With the book you can look at on here I can easily figure out roughly how many points I need.

I will still have to pay MFs. Pending on what the home resort is depends on the amount that is along with how many points.

If I buy re-sale off of eBay, I need to verify that the seller is a good seller and not a scam.

OH and the salespeople lie, ha.

Am I missing anything yet?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 8, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok.. So let me get this right:
> 
> I can buy resale points at a lower rate than I could from a developer with the exception of the perks card and VIP Status.
> 
> ...



Your comment pertaining to E-Bay re-sellers is not entirely accurate.  I think it should have read something to the effect if you believe everything they say still verify everthing and more with the Resort, Wyndham, etc.


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## gdunn (Sep 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Your comment pertaining to E-Bay re-sellers is not entirely accurate.  I think it should have read something to the effect if you believe everything they say still verify everthing and more with the Resort, Wyndham, etc.



Ok.. So if they are selling say New Orleans, call that resort and verify what is being said like the MF? Or is it better to call Wyndham's 1-800 number?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 8, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok.. So if they are selling say New Orleans, call that resort and verify what is being said like the MF? Or is it better to call Wyndham's 1-800 number?



Probably less run around at the Resort.  Not sure that Wyndham would give you want you want.  They would probably indicate that they could send an Estoppel letter to the owner.  The only problem with this system is that I asked about one from a E-Bay reseller which was provided.  However, when I called Wyndham, they claimed they did not issue it even though it appeared to be on Wyndham letterhead.


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## ronparise (Sep 8, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok.. So if they are selling say New Orleans, call that resort and verify what is being said like the MF? Or is it better to call Wyndham's 1-800 number?



The folks at the resort wont know what the fees are and the folks at Wyndham wont tell you (because you are not the owner)

Ask your seller to provide you with the estoppel letter . (Wyndham calls it "Vacation Ownership Details") and they give this only to owners. your seller should have it or should be able to get it. 

By the way, La Belle Maison is just under $5/1000 points


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## rrlongwell (Sep 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> The folks at the resort wont know what the fees are and the folks at Wyndham wont tell you (because you are not the owner)
> 
> Ask your seller to provide you with the estoppel letter . (Wyndham calls it "Vacation Ownership Details") and they give this only to owners. your seller should have it or should be able to get it.
> 
> By the way, La Belle Maison is just under $5/1000 points



Resorts will vary on what information they will provide, in my experience, this ranges from nothing to inviting me to look and the computer file on the actual owner that they were re-selling the unit for.  Depends on who you speak to.  Front Desk people general do not know or do not have access to this type of information.  You need to speaking to no less than the Manager or an Assitant Manager that handles distressed units.


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## gdunn (Sep 8, 2012)

So contact the seller and ask about an estoppel letter is what I'm understanding?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 8, 2012)

gdunn said:


> So contact the seller and ask about an estoppel letter is what I'm understanding?



If you want to run the risk of getting ripped off by the re-seller(s) that just generate their own.


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## gdunn (Sep 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> If you want to run the risk of getting ripped off by the re-seller(s) that just generate their own.



Luckily I'm not buying for a year so ya'll will keep getting all these questions. HA


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## ronparise (Sep 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> If you want to run the risk of getting ripped off by the re-seller(s) that just generate their own.



How many times have ebay resellers ripped you off

If I had to carry around all the fear and mistrust that you seem to revel in, I couldnt get out of bed in the morning. If you are going to do  anything online, both buyer and seller have to trust one another. Ask your questions, demand your answers, but at some point decide to either go forward or back away

All you seem to have to justify your opinions about ebay resellers are stories youve heard about

Ive made 31 separate purchases in the last 2 years, most on ebay, some through brokers Ive met online and some from individuals Ive met online. Ive done over 100 rentals to strangers most of whom have come to me through craigs list. A few of my rentals have been through 3rd party rental companies or vacation clubs. And just recently, I have begun to sell on ebay...to strangers. Strangers I have to trust and who have to trust me...

Risk...sure there's a risk but Id rather take a risk trying to get something done than play it safe and do nothing

So far Ive never a problem like the ones you warn us about. Nobody is out to get me, and nobody is out to get you, and nobody is out to get the op...and there isnt a boogie man under the bed....Let the op ask his questions and lets help him do his due diligence. There is no need to scare him away with nonsense you've heard or made up...but never experienced yourself


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## rrlongwell (Sep 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> No, the story I told involved myself and Sumday.  If I remember, this is one of the re-sellers you recommended at one point in time.


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## ronparise (Sep 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> ronparise said:
> 
> 
> > No, the story I told involved myself and Sumday.  If I remember, this is one of the re-sellers you recommended at one point in time.
> ...


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## rrlongwell (Sep 9, 2012)

ronparise said:


> rrlongwell said:
> 
> 
> > did you even bid?, and did you win? and did they deliver what the ad promised or not?
> ...


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## gdunn (Sep 9, 2012)

OK..

New question:

Say I buy 300,000 points through re-sale. I'm in I got the points all is right in my vacationing world. Later I decide to up my points for whatever reason, do I have to buy into another ownership?


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## learnalot (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> OK..
> 
> New question:
> 
> Say I buy 300,000 points through re-sale. I'm in I got the points all is right in my vacationing world. Later I decide to up my points for whatever reason, do I have to buy into another ownership?



Not exactly sure what your question is so I will take a stab at what I think you might be asking...If you are asking if you can purchase another contract and have it attached to the account you already have, the answer is yes.  With Wyndham, if the contracts are points contracts from the same resort, you can use all the points together any time.  If they are from different resorts, they are resort specific from 13 months until 10 months advance, (ARP).  The points could not be combined during that period.  At 10 months, all points can be used anyhere and thus can be spent together.


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## gdunn (Sep 9, 2012)

learnalot said:


> Not exactly sure what your question is so I will take a stab at what I think you might be asking...If you are asking if you can purchase another contract and have it attached to the account you already have, the answer is yes.  With Wyndham, if the contracts are points contracts from the same resort, you can use all the points together any time.  If they are from different resorts, they are resort specific from 13 months until 10 months advance, (ARP).  The points could not be combined during that period.  At 10 months, all points can be used anyhere and thus can be spent together.



Maybe I need to try again, HA.

If I buy 300,000 points via a re-sale for one of the resorts in Gatlinburg. Life is good and I have no issues.

In a few years I decided I want to add more points. Well I got such a great deal via re-sale I want to do it again, am I going to have to add another deed or could I buy those and add it on my existing deed?


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Maybe I need to try again, HA.
> 
> If I buy 300,000 points via a re-sale for one of the resorts in Gatlinburg. Life is good and I have no issues.
> 
> In a few years I decided I want to add more points. Well I got such a great deal via re-sale I want to do it again, am I going to have to add another deed or could I buy those and add it on my existing deed?



I'm confused  I think you're asking if you can buy points???? If so then NO, you'll have to add on another deed.


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## gdunn (Sep 9, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> I'm confused  I think you're asking if you can buy points???? If so then NO, you'll have to add on another deed.



justmeinflorida, I don't have anything yet, I haven't bought. But I'm asking if I buy points via re-sale and decide later I need more could I add more via re-sale or would I have to do it through Wyndham.


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> justmeinflorida, I don't have anything yet, I haven't bought. But I'm asking if I buy points via re-sale and decide later I need more could I add more via re-sale or would I have to do it through Wyndham.



You can buy more re-sale points.


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok.. So let me get this right:
> 
> With the book you can look at on here I can easily figure out roughly how many points I need.



Yes and no. The points you see that are in the book what the resort would normally go for. But if you book within the "express window", you could get a discount.


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## ronparise (Sep 9, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> ronparise said:
> 
> 
> > I am not going to get involved in a debate over the issue.  It is not my intent to cause problems to your, and other mega rentors/re-seller use of the forums to build and generate business.  I think it is great that you and the others are successful in this endeaver, sometimes, I just feel sorry for the marks.  Best of luck in your attemps to rent and sell timeshares.  It is always good advise for a buyer to do their due dilagence in dealing with E-Bay re-sellers or otherwise and for a new buyer to understand some methods of checking things out.  Especially firms that use the "We will sell your timeshare or I will buy it" concept.  The bad ones could very well end up on E-Bay.  Firms that use this approach may very well have add one fees.  If all of the site entries are read, you might find a fixed fee concept has a entry in a different place that provides a limit on the costs they will actually pay and costs over that number are the sellers responsability.  Due diligence and reading all conditions and terms is always a great idea.
> ...


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> justmeinflorida, I don't have anything yet, I haven't bought. But I'm asking if I buy points via re-sale and decide later I need more could I add more via re-sale or would I have to do it through Wyndham.



You do not buy points, either resale or from Wyndham. You buy  an UDI  in some resort and get a legally recorded deed  from the County Clerk/Deed Recorder Documenting.

In your  purchase contract you agree to be bound by  VOI Trust of 1991  as amended  which includes  converting  your deeded ownership to symbolic points which you can use to  book  reservations in  Wyndham vacation system. You also agree to pay a POA fee for this service and free RCI Membership.

You can buy as many deeds as you want, where ever you want and if exact  same name they will all be put in one  account.

Different rules for fixed weeks and CWA!


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## DrBopp (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> justmeinflorida, I don't have anything yet, I haven't bought. But I'm asking if I buy points via re-sale and decide later I need more could I add more via re-sale or would I have to do it through Wyndham.


You can buy additional points resale or you can buy them from Wyndham. They will ALWAYS be cheaper resale than retail. But however you buy them, they can be used together to reserve condos. Exactly how you can use them depends on many factors,but you can find that out by asking and reading.Good Luck!!

Gordon


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

DrBopp said:


> You can buy additional points resale or you can buy them from Wyndham. They will ALWAYS be cheaper resale than retail. But however you buy them, they can be used together to reserve condos. Exactly how you can use them depends on many factors,but you can find that out by asking and reading.Good Luck!!
> 
> Gordon



I forgot to mention being able to buy them through Wyndham but who would want to unless absolutely necessary. 

Say you have 160K points but your reservation cost 168K, you could buy those needed points through Wyndham @  $10 per 1,000: see page 278 in Wyndham directory.


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## rrlongwell (Sep 9, 2012)

ronparise said:


> rrlongwell said:
> 
> 
> > Im not supposed to advertise here and I dont think most folks appreciate a shill doing it for me...but thanks for doing it...someone might see it before the Mods take it down
> ...


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## rrlongwell (Sep 9, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> I forgot to mention being able to buy them through Wyndham but who would want to unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> Say you have 160K points but your reservation cost 168K, you could buy those needed points through Wyndham @  $10 per 1,000: see page 278 in Wyndham directory.



I think it is $10 dollars over the phone and $8 dollars via computer.  At least $8 per thousand points is what I can get up to the number of points I own.

As a side note:  I am not sure, but if you bought a club Wyndham Access contract(s) they may be able to be combined.  I am not sure who you would talk to at Wyndham.  You can try Wyndham Title and go from there.


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## gdunn (Sep 9, 2012)

Ok. But if I bought more re-sale points and it's through a different resort wouldn't it be the same as having another deed and having to pay more MFs?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok. But if I bought more re-sale points and it's through a different resort wouldn't it be the same as having another deed and having to pay more MFs?



That is true both for Club Wyndham Access and Club Wyndham Plus.  The only way to avoid this particular problem would be to rent the points from Wyndham.  It is an expensive way to go vs. buying directly, but then you do not have the on-going maintance fee problem and the rental points could vary by year depending on the number desired.


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## gdunn (Sep 9, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> That is true both for Club Wyndham Access and Club Wyndham Plus.  The only way to avoid this particular problem would be to rent the points from Wyndham.  It is an expensive way to go vs. buying directly, but then you do not have the on-going maintance fee problem and the rental points could vary by year depending on the number desired.



Ok.. What are rental points?


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> *Ok.. What are rental points?*





rrlongwell said:


> I think it is $10 dollars over the phone and $8 dollars via computer.  At least $8 per thousand points is what I can get up to the number of points I own.



They are exactly what me and rr pointed out. If you don't have enough points to rent a unit, you can purchase them through Wyndham.


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## learnalot (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Maybe I need to try again, HA.
> 
> If I buy 300,000 points via a re-sale for one of the resorts in Gatlinburg. Life is good and I have no issues.
> 
> In a few years I decided I want to add more points. Well I got such a great deal via re-sale I want to do it again, am I going to have to add another deed or could I buy those and add it on my existing deed?



I will try again too.  The answer to your question is no, you can't just buy points.  Points are backed up by a deed that represents (very) fractional ownership of actual real estate.  (Not in any way suggesting this is valuable as an investment - just explaining the structure).  So in order to buy more points, you must buy another deed because that is how they are accounted for.  You can have multiple deeds under one ownership.


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## rrlongwell (Sep 9, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok.. What are rental points?



They are just that.  If and when you buy a points based contract, you will be able to go through a self directed series of computer screens that book the reservation for you through the computer.

If you do not have enough points to complete the reservation, you will then see a screen that lists "borrowed points" and something to the effect of rent points.  Select the rent points option and proceed.  I have not actually rented any points at this point, but I assume it then continues down that path, you pay etc. disclosers or whatever.  It will also disclose the rental rate.


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 9, 2012)

Also note:

You can "borrow points" If you decide to travel at last minute (90 day before check in) and you don't have enough points, you can borrow points from the next use year. 

But you can avoid all of this by pooling your points before your use year ( which will extend them for 3yrs) for $39. Say you have 160K points and only use 140K, your points won't go to waist and you won't have to deposit them in RCI to save them.


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## ronparise (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok. But if I bought more re-sale points and it's through a different resort wouldn't it be the same as having another deed and having to pay more MFs?



Thats exactly what it is

The Wyndham system grew out of a traditional fixed weeks timeshare model. You buy one of 52 weeks in a condo. You are responsible for 1/52 of the expenses of that condo and you get to use it one week a year 

Points are often referred to as symbolic points. Just as the $20 bill you have in your pocket and your bank balance is symbolic of wealth and has a certain purchasing power,. Points in the Wyndham system symbolize your fractional ownership of real property. Your points also have a certain purchasing power. They are what we use to make reservations

You might have wondered why so many of the points contracts for sale are 105000 points or 189000 points or 154000 points. Why the odd numbers. These are the number of points assigned to a week in a certain season at a certain resort. ie the points are symbolic of a certain week that you own

If I have more points than you, I own a larger share of the real estate than you and  I get more use of that real estate as well. Of course I am also responsible for a larger share of the maintenance...


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## am1 (Sep 10, 2012)

The misuse of terms and misinformation on this thread will make t hard to follow for some.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

am1 said:


> The misuse of terms and misinformation on this thread will make t hard to follow for some.



Sorry if I'm using wrong terms, I don't know these things, hence why I'm asking. Can you clear things up?


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## ronparise (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Sorry if I'm using wrong terms, I don't know these things, hence why I'm asking. Can you clear things up?





There is as much opinion here as fact and the thread took a nasty side turn a page back (sorry for that) 

One of the problems is that you dont yet have a basic understanding of how the system works...Questions like this one that you asked, stop me cold

_Ok. But if I bought more re-sale points and it's through a different resort wouldn't it be the same as having another deed and having to pay more MFs?_

That is so basic. That you dont understand it just blows me away...Its like asking...So if I buy this car, and I want to go somewhere...Does that mean that Ill have to buy gasoline to fuel it each trip,,,or will one tankfull last the life of the car? (by the way depending on the size of the tank and the fuel efficiency of the car you will be buying gas every 200-400 miles)

I tried to give you an understanding of this relationship of deeds to points to maintenance fees a few posts back but apparently struck out

So here are all the answers to questions you have asked through this thread I have stripped out the opinion and what i think to me is mis information

Buying resale is the way to go. Forgot developer perks. 

"Until you learn more and are in a better financial position you will have better luck renting from another owner".

With Wyndham do you have to have a home resort?  "Yes" usually

Meaning if I would've bought the points in Branson this past weekend would Branson been my home resort but I could've used the points wherever?  

"Exactly"

"The points can be used thoughout the Wyndham Club Plus season anywhere at the 10 months point based on availablity. Home resort, 13 month out, "

So let me ask this now, cause I've been looking through the 2011-2012 points guide up at the top. The salesman told us we could bank points or it would act as a rollover. Is there any truth to that? I mean if we buy decide say 154k points and decide that we're not going to use them, next year at the anniversary does that mean we'd have 308k points?

"some truth:  You have to decide to deposit your points in the points credit pool before your year begins. For example I will be depositing my 2013 points into the pool in Dec of 2012. Once in the pool they are good for 3 years. the other possibility is to deposit to RCI and that can be done right up to the end of your use year...Both these features of the Wyndham system are explaind fairly well in the owners directory. You have the online version"

If I were to buy into Wyndham or any "vacation ownership", would I have to subject myself to a 2 hour presentation every time or "owner's meeting"?

"prehaps...it depends on how strong a person you are..Can you say no thank you and mean it?"


So the MFs.. Are they cheaper at different resorts?  "Yes, and more expensive at others"

Is there a guide that shows that?  "yes on the Wyndham Owners forum here  http://forums.atozed.com/download/file.php?id=2965 "

So let's talk taxes.. How does this affect income taxes? Any at all?  "No  but call your accountant to be sure"

Ok.. So if they are selling say New Orleans, call that resort and verify what is being said like the MF? Or is it better to call Wyndham's 1-800 number?
"The folks at the resort wont know what the fees are and the folks at Wyndham wont tell you (because you are not the owner)"

"Ask your seller to provide you with the estoppel letter . (Wyndham calls it "Vacation Ownership Details") and they give this only to owners. your seller should have it or should be able to get it." 

"By the way, La Belle Maison is just under $5/1000 points"

So contact the seller and ask about an estoppel letter is what I'm understanding?  "Yes"

new question:

Say I buy 300,000 points through re-sale. I'm in I got the points all is right in my vacationing world. Later I decide to up my points for whatever reason, do I have to buy into another ownership?  "Of course  You can buy as many deeds as you want, where ever you want and if exact same name they will all be put in one account."

Ok.. What are rental points?  "If you need more points than you have you van rent more from Wyndham at rates Shylock would be proud of...also you can borrow points...see your directory for details"


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

ronparise said:


> There is as much opinion here as fact and the thread took a nasty side turn a page back (sorry for that)
> 
> One of the problems is that you dont yet have a basic understanding of how the system works...Questions like this one that you asked, stop me cold
> 
> ...



Ron, you're absolutely correct, I don't understand and that's why I'm here asking. I went to another website that I won't say and I feel like their only answers were: It's a bad investment or it's a great investment, but no one would tell me why. Here I'm asking the questions and I'm getting some great feedback. I like to research and research and research before buying anything. I do the same with cars, computers, cellphones, etc. I want to get the best bang for the buck type thing.

The whole adding points question I asked I didn't read some of the responses apparently this weekend (I'm under the weather and apparently the medicine made me loopy). I still don't think it's been answered. It may be because I have a difficulty explaining it and everyone started in on rental poionts, which maybe the way to go. Again if you read the title of the thread it clearly states that I'm a non-owner with questions. My first experience with anyone trying to sell me a timeshare was Labor Day weekend so yeah I didn't buy because I had questions and financially it's not wise for me at this point. But anyway, my question is if I buy into the Wyndham system via re-sale points and down the road I see that those points will not be enough (because I have children and such and would need more for the bedroom space) could I purchase more via re-sale but with all the resale points I see it already has a home resort attached, there would be no way to just purchase the points to add to the current deed or home resort, I would have to purchase another ownership sort to say to another home resort. That's my question. I blame myself because I couldn't think of how to fully explain my question. Again, head's foggy due to cold medication.

And Ron, it's not basic if you don't understand. I feel like you just called me an idiot in not so many words. I don't really appreciate that. It may be easier for you because you've been an owner for years and deal with re-sales all the time, but for someone who's never dealt with one, it's all new. This is not like renting a condo for a week or building a 4 story building, which are things I've done. So please keep that in mind.


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## scootr5 (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> The whole adding points question I asked I didn't read some of the responses apparently this weekend (I'm under the weather and apparently the medicine made me loopy). I still don't think it's been answered.



When you buy "points" you are actually buying a deeded property with a points representation. You can not add anything else to that deed, but you can buy another one. As long as the names on the title are exactly the same, they would be placed in one account and the total points would be available for use at the 10 month point (or 13 month for ARP if both deeds are at the same resort).


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> When you buy "points" you are actually buying a deeded property with a points representation. You can not add anything else to that deed, but you can buy another one. As long as the names on the title are exactly the same, they would be placed in one account and the total points would be available for use at the 10 month point (or 13 month for ARP if both deeds are at the same resort).



Thank you.


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 10, 2012)

ronparise said:


> There is as much opinion here as fact and the thread took a nasty side turn a page back (sorry for that)
> 
> One of the problems is that you dont yet have a basic understanding of how the system works...Questions like this one that you asked, stop me cold
> 
> ...



Ron:

You are  a patient but pragmatic man! 


As I recall,  you have posted a  web site where  the CW Directory can be read if one does not have a hard copy. Maybe this would help!


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Ok. But if I bought more re-sale points and it's through a different resort wouldn't it be the same as having another deed and having to pay more MFs?






See post #52!


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn, here's a few examples:

*#1
*
You buy re-sale LaBella Mason with 300K annual points per year, this year and then go and buy re-sale 100K annual points per year, LaBella Mason next year. You can use those 400K points to book at LaBella Mason at 13 months before check in (this is called ARP). You can also use those points to book anywhere in the Wyndham system at 10 months before check in.

*#2
*
You buy re-sale LaBella Mason with 300K annual points per year, this year and then go buy re-sale 100K annual Smoky Mountains next year. You can  use 300K at Labella Mason 13 months before check in. You can use 100K at Smoky Mountains 13 months before check in. You can also use all 400K anywhere in the Wyndham system at 10 months before check in.

The only way to not pay more M/F's is to either rent the week from someone else or rent the points from Wyndham at $8 per 1K "online" or $10 per 1K "over the phone".


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 10, 2012)

The term "RENTING POINTS" reflects the act of renting points from Wyndham as a ONE TIME USAGE. It is governed by rules of the Member Directory, which you need to start reading to understand the system BEFORE buying.

If less than 10 months from checkin date, you may rent points to complete the partial points needed for the LAST night of the reservation. EX: you want 4 nights, but ONLY have enough points to book 3.7 nights. That .3 night of points may be rented from Wyndham.

At the 90 day or few days to checkin, you may rent all the points for the transaction, up to the total number of annual points own under your member number. Or you may BORROW points from YOUR NEXT USE year.

Either way, IF you cancel that reservation, ALL the points use for that reservation become CANCELLED Points which expire at the end of the USE YEAR that the reservation's start date. (unless it is a split reservation, with the second part in the different use year).

If this reads like a legal document, remember all the Wyndham rules are legally defined as part of the membership. Just like how your bank operates your checking account .... the rules can and do change; sometimes, things become clear and sometimes the bank becomes richer.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

See this is all making better sense. Thanks.

Like I said bear with me, because I don't want to buy something that I'm going to regret buying.

I guess I need to read the member's book before I ask anything else. I appreciate all the answers given.

Next question:

The points never change for a stay right? If it says a 4 bedroom deluxe at this resort costs 400k for a week, that never changes only MFs change right?


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## am1 (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Next question:
> 
> The points never change for a stay right? If it says a 4 bedroom deluxe at this resort costs 400k for a week, that never changes only MFs change right?



It can change.  I do not think it has actually been done at Wyndham resorts but at affiliates and hotels it has.  At the Wyndham resorts, the total number of points has to remain the same but individual weeks can change.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

am1 said:


> It can change.  I do not think it has actually been done at Wyndham resorts but at affiliates and hotels it has.  At the Wyndham resorts, the total number of points has to remain the same but individual weeks can change.



Ok. See I'd hate to buy a ton of points and have so many in reserve and in 10 years have to start borrowing or renting points.


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## bnoble (Sep 10, 2012)

Someone asked about the Directory.  Here's a link to the current (as of this writing) version.  Anyone considering a purchase should read the policy bits very carefully:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

bnoble said:


> Someone asked about the Directory.  Here's a link to the current (as of this writing) version.  Anyone considering a purchase should read the policy bits very carefully:
> 
> http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/



I've looked through that thing a few times, but mainly at the resorts and points. Nothing else. Maybe I will read it and see what all it has to say.


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## learnalot (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> The points never change for a stay right? If it says a 4 bedroom deluxe at this resort costs 400k for a week, that never changes only MFs change right?



The points for a particular week can change, but such a change would require a corresponding change of another week.  Remember that the points are representing fractional ownership of actual property and they can't oversell what they have in totality.  Even though some weeks may be more popular than others, the total points accounted for on the points chart have to correlate to the total number of units available and the points required to book them.  

So, for example, using small numbers for clarity, if the points chart has 10 weeks as Value weeks at 100k, 10 weeks as Low demand weeks at 150k and 10 weeks as High demand weeks for 200k, they could change which weeks fall into which category (take 2 weeks previously designated as Value and switch them with 2 weeks previously designated as Low demand but still end up with a net of 10 weeks in each category).  They could also decide to take 10 Value weeks at 100K and 10 Low weeks at 150K and turn them into 20 weeks at 125K.  But they can't raise the points required for any weeks without a corresponding lowering in other weeks that makes the math come out the same.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

learnalot said:


> The points for a particular week can change, but such a change would require a corresponding change of another week.  Remember that the points are representing fractional ownership of actual property and they can't oversell what they have in totality.  Even though some weeks may be more popular than others, the total points accounted for on the points chart have to correlate to the total number of units available and the points required to book them.
> 
> So, for example, using small numbers for clarity, if the points chart has 10 weeks as Value weeks at 100k, 10 weeks as Low demand weeks at 150k and 10 weeks as High demand weeks for 200k, they could change which weeks fall into which category (take 2 weeks previously designated as Value and switch them with 2 weeks previously designated as Low demand but still end up with a net of 10 weeks in each category).  They could also decide to take 10 Value weeks at 100K and 10 Low weeks at 150K and turn them into 20 weeks at 125K.  But they can't raise the points required for any weeks without a corresponding lowering in other weeks that makes the math come out the same.



I got ya.

Now reading the book it talked about guest confirmations, and if I understood right, I have to have a guest confirmation on any unit that I would not be occupying. So if I get a 4 bedroom suite, I don't need a guest confirmation as long as we're all staying in the suite right? But if I get two 2 bedroom suites, I have to have a guest confirmation for the room correct?


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## scootr5 (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> I got ya.
> 
> Now reading the book it talked about guest confirmations, and if I understood right, I have to have a guest confirmation on any unit that I would not be occupying. So if I get a 4 bedroom suite, I don't need a guest confirmation as long as we're all staying in the suite right? But if I get two 2 bedroom suites, I have to have a guest confirmation for the room correct?




If you have two owners on the account, you can place one room in your name and one in the other owner's. As long as both are there to check in, no GC is needed. If you only have one name on the account or the other owner would not be there, then you would need to use a Guest Certificate for the second room.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> If you have two owners on the account, you can place one room in your name and one in the other owner's. As long as both are there to check in, no GC is needed. If you only have one name on the account or the other owner would not be there, then you would need to use a Guest Certificate for the second room.



That's easy enough.

I'm assuming the resorts are like a normal condo. It's clean when you arrive, it's up to you to clean every day and make your own bed, and at the end of the week they come in and make sure you didn't trash the place and clean. Or is it like a hotel? They come in and clean every day while you're out?


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## Rent_Share (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> That's easy enough.
> 
> I'm assuming the resorts are like a normal condo. It's clean when you arrive, it's up to you to clean every day and make your own bed, and at the end of the week they come in and make sure you didn't trash the place and clean. Or is it like a hotel? They come in and clean every day while you're out?


 

You need to rent before considering buying


Hyatt and Four Seasons do have daily maid service I believe, It;s refelcetd in the Maintenance Fees


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> You need to rent before considering buying
> 
> 
> Hyatt and Four Seasons do have daily maid service I believe, It;s refelcetd in the Maintenance Fees



I think I will probably do that. I like the fact that there is a rental page here and might would consider doing that before I jump feet first.

If I get ready to pull the trigger, I'm going to want to stay at one. I've stayed at a BlueGreen once and it was ok. The model we were shown for Wyndham in Branson really did impress us, that's the only reason we've really discussed it. That and the places we like going, Wyndham is there and places we want to go, Wyndham has resorts. It's almost like a win win, however, we want to know the good and bad about it.


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 10, 2012)

OP:

I think you are getting hung up on technical points over which you have no control. Most aspects of the Wyndham UDI points and 1991 Trust are cast in concrete  and covered on pages 233-344 of CW Directory! If you don't like, don't buy  resale or Developer. If rights  are  not deeded they change as  the spirit moves them. See posts on changes taking place in next month or so.

Your only power is before you part with your money,  so select carefully.

Low MF are the greatest, but are they being subsidized or is SA looming or does resort charge $150 a week for parking? CWA $5.42 MF is best average available. Under $5.00 is good if you can find at resort you like for bargain price.

Location is a major factor.

Of course, total out of pocket cost is big consideration. I think Ron's target  of $1K is good starting point.

Buying HOA or Developer foreclosure and PIC program can be be great if you must have VIP.  RR is de facto expert on this approach.


To original question:  UDI  resorts have  a fixed number of points like a zillion.  These points are assigned to specific deeded  intervals based on unit size, season, prime, high, value, quiet,  location,  age, whatever moves the great spirit. They may vary on  different Wyndham resorts in  same  city.


"The Plan Manager(WVR)  may redistribute  the annual points  attributable  to a Vacation unit  within the seasons of the year, up to a cummulative total  of twenty  percent(20%)  increase  or decrease  or less if required by the underlying documents  of the Project"!


If you buy from  Developer you will get over 10   legal size pages of this mumbo jumbo  and have  signed  and initialed  you unconditionally agree and accept!


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

Paco, you probably are right. I don't think I'm hung up, just curious. Like I've said I like to be well informed. Ok.. Maybe I am hung up. I've got plenty of time to learn on all this. So please be patient with me. If you or anyone else thinks I need a good smacking around, feel free to. I know Ron did earlier and sometimes that's what I need.

Go back to when you first bought and didn't know anything. That's where I am. If I can avoid any mistakes that others have made and regretted, that's what I want to do. I don't want to end up buying next year or the year after and months later come here and complain to the point that everyone is fed up with me. Kinda like ya'll are now, :rofl:


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## ronparise (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> See this is all making better sense. Thanks.
> 
> Like I said bear with me, because I don't want to buy something that I'm going to regret buying.
> 
> I guess I need to read the member's book before I ask anything else. I appreciate all the answers given.



There you go...do the first step last, but at least do it

and I ddidnt mean to call you an idiot, I did mean to suggest you do a little reading yourself and not expect any of us to spoon feed you

Read the book. write down your questions as you do, reread it this time looking for the answeres (I guarantee it that they are there)  and then come back here with whats left


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

ronparise said:


> There you go...do the first step last, but at least do it
> 
> and I ddidnt mean to call you an idiot, I did mean to suggest you do a little reading yourself and not expect any of us to spoon feed you
> 
> Read the book. write down your questions as you do, reread it this time looking for the answeres (I guarantee it that they are there)  and then come back here with whats left



See, that's all you had to say. I definately need to read the book. I just said this in a PM to Paco, I'm like a sponge and I'm trying to soak in as much as possible.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

Here's one the book can't answer:

What's the worst thing about not just Wyndham but any timeshare that you've experienced?


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## ronparise (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Go back to when you first bought and didn't know anything. That's where I am. If I can avoid any mistakes that others have made and regretted, that's what I want to do. I don't want to end up buying next year or the year after and months later come here and complain to the point that everyone is fed up with me. Kinda like ya'll are now, :rofl:



The only mistake that any of us regret is having bought directly from Wyndham...You are already beyond that

Speaking only for myself, I looked deep enough to know that Wyndham had resorts where I wanted to go, In fact they have the only timeshare in (near) Washington DC and I thought I could handle the maintenance fees...so I bought. The rest of what I learned was on the job training


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

ronparise said:


> The only mistake that any of us regret is having bought directly from Wyndham...You are already beyond that
> 
> Speaking only for myself, I looked deep enough to know that Wyndham had resorts where I wanted to go, In fact they have the only timeshare in (near Washington DC) and I thought I could handle the maintenance fees...so I bought. The rest of what I learned was on the job training



You can thank my fiancee for that. When I asked the salesman if we got in and decided to get out, he told us they would buy but more than likely we'd have to go through a realitor. Now he did say and I quote "You can always get what you put into it, nothing more. Meaning you can sell what you bought for."

Ok, everything I've seen on eBay and other sites, can't be what these poor folks bought in at.

But on our way back to Mississippi from Missouri her words to me was: Let's see how much of a better deal we can get from a realitor. And googling has led me here.


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## bnoble (Sep 10, 2012)

> What's the worst thing about not just Wyndham but any timeshare that you've experienced?


Well, for the most part, Ron is right when he says:


> The only mistake that any of us regret is having bought directly from Wyndham.


And I have only purchased timeshares resale.  But, there is one thing about timesharing I find unpleasant: the sales staff.  At many resorts, they take every approach imaginable (including some half-truths) to suck you into a tour, and they are slow to take no for an answer.   This is because, statistically, one out of every eight tours signs on the line which is dotted (they are good at what they do), so tour generation is equivalent to sausage making.  I have never actually done a tour, and the "body snatchers" are really more like annoying pests than anything serious.  But, you asked.

For what it's worth, Wyndham's sales staff has a reputation of being more unpleasant than average.  My one experience with Bluegreen was downright sunny---a simple "no thanks, not interested" sufficed.  Most of my non-Wyndham stays are at DVC, and they are the very essence of the soft sell.  On the other hand, I hear Westgate is even worse than Wyndham.


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## justmeinflorida (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm not sure if you've read this yet, Introduction To Wyndam Points. it's sticky'd at the top of the Wyndham forum page but it's a good read and you can learn a lot from it. I read it probably 10 times before it all started coming together and making sense. I still reference it occasionally.


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## gdunn (Sep 10, 2012)

justmeinflorida said:


> I'm not sure if you've read this yet, Introduction To Wyndam Points. it's sticky'd at the top of the Wyndham forum page but it's a good read and you can learn a lot from it. I read it probably 10 times before it all started coming together and making sense. I still reference it occasionally.



Actually I read it. I've clicked a few links. I looked throught the 10 things a few times.


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 10, 2012)

I read Ron's post but even if I hadn't response would be the same.

Being on the high side of 65 I have accumulated a lot of knowledge, experience(some expensive like buying from Developer), expertise, etc.

That being said,  I would not BUY  any time share at any price.

One can rent all the points they want from  Wyndham VIP owners for $5.00/1,000 on Wyndham Forum.  In many cases will pass through VIP discounts so cost is very low. Also,  Bargain Forum here is great especially if  one is retired  and can travel on fairly short notice and no kids  schedules to worry about. Also, it has many different resorts.

Getting rid of is another whole topic!

No worrying about ARP, credit pool, banking,  fees,  changing rules,   60 day mark, etc.

Keep in mind Ron has   built on his    stock broker, real estate  broker experience,  etc. to parlay  travel enjoyment  into a profitable hobby or  at this point  probably  a business.  Three year ago  probably didn't know what a time share was and today is  recognized GURU on Wyndham  and Mardi Gras due to a lot of homework. Probably knows Wyndham better than 90% of VCs and customer service reps.

The interesting point is   this is a business  that is not that hard to enter.  Probably $10K-$20K   for resale  purchases and MF! One just has to  do their home work and  buy  the right resorts at the right price and get out on  craigslist, their web site,  here, etc. 

Several  large(mega seems to have  bad conation)  do including Rick and Cindy who are active posters here.

Time  shares are complicated and do require  lots of home work to realize full value!


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## rrlongwell (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Here's one the book can't answer:
> 
> What's the worst thing about not just Wyndham but any timeshare that you've experienced?



The self proclaimed mega rentor/re-seller who are self appointed advocates, they are a tough group that believe in functioning by and for their own vested self interest.  There is nothing, par se, wrong with the approach, however ... Overall the timeshare community is a great place with great resorts and well worth it.  Welcome to it.

P.S.  Keep the questions coming, the book is not necessarily the way it works.  If you step on some toes, oh well.  As they say in the service "____" happens.  If you do not know what this means, maybe a fellow vet can translate.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 10, 2012)

rrlongwell --- 
_What band wagon are you on today?_ Are you bashing fellow TUGGERs who have answered this thread with posts trying to explain answers to questions asked, trying to imply YOUR Wyndham rules are NOT the same as everyone elses rules (as you brought/inherited Platimun VIP status with Wyndham points) or not so secretly pimping YOUR new interest in renting your Wyndham timeshare reservations (oh hail, the newest Megarenter)?

And if I am stepping on YOUR TOES, "oh well, STUFF happens! And I was not in the service, but was one of those hippie, "flower in my hair" girls putting a flowers in the ROTC guys rifles while burning my bra.


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## Cheryl20772 (Sep 10, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> The self proclaimed mega rentor/re-seller who are self appointed advocates, they are a tough group that believe in functioning by and for their own vested self interest.  There is nothing, par se, wrong with the approach, however ... Overall the timeshare community is a great place with great resorts and well worth it.  Welcome to it.
> 
> P.S.  Keep the questions coming, the book is not necessarily the way it works.  If you step on some toes, oh well.  As they say in the service "____" happens.  If you do not know what this means, maybe a fellow vet can translate.


RR, I'm confused.  I thought you were against these "self proclaimed mega rentor/re-seller" people, but then recently I saw that you were offering to rent some of your many points.  It felt a little like you were wanting to be one of them.

I am also confused about what the "re-seller" part of that descriptor is.  What would a "mega re-seller" be (self proclaimed or otherwise)?  All I can think of might be one of the post card companies or DFC?  Don't think we have any of them posting here regularly, but maybe I'm wrong.

The worse thing I've encountered at a Wyndham resort?  Got to be two things and hard to say which is worse for me... the lies and deception told by high pressure Wyndham sales associates and the tiny roaches in the kitchen sink area at Ocean Walk (both make me cringe).  We'll be at OW at the end of this month and I'm bringing a roach motel to put by the sink at night.  I'm probably going to unplug the phone too.


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## bnoble (Sep 10, 2012)

> What band wagon are you on today?


This is his usual rant.  Those of us who have gotten to know him realize this is just his tinfoil hat showing.

(And, try as he might, he can't paint me with the mega-renter brush, as I'm a measly 189K resale peon who generally uses all of his points for vacation.)


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## pacodemountainside (Sep 10, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> rrlongwell ---
> _What band wagon are you on today?_ Are you bashing fellow TUGGERs who have answered this thread with posts trying to explain answers to questions asked, trying to imply YOUR Wyndham rules are NOT the same as everyone elses rules (as you brought/inherited Platimun VIP status with Wyndham points) or not so secretly pimping YOUR new interest in renting your Wyndham timeshare reservations (oh hail, the newest Megarenter)?
> 
> And if I am stepping on YOUR TOES, "oh well, STUFF happens! And I was not in the service, but was one of those hippie, "flower in my hair" girls putting a flowers in the ROTC guys rifles while burning my bra.



Any pictures????


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## rrlongwell (Sep 10, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> rrlongwell ---
> _What band wagon are you on today?_ Are you bashing fellow TUGGERs who have answered this thread with posts trying to explain answers to questions asked, trying to imply YOUR Wyndham rules are NOT the same as everyone elses rules (as you brought/inherited Platimun VIP status with Wyndham points) or not so secretly pimping YOUR new interest in renting your Wyndham timeshare reservations (oh hail, the newest Megarenter)?
> 
> And if I am stepping on YOUR TOES, "oh well, STUFF happens! And I was not in the service, but was one of those hippie, "flower in my hair" girls putting a flowers in the ROTC guys rifles while burning my bra.



Cheers and Salutations to the good old day.  As a member of ROTC unit in days gone by, I am sure the Cadets involved appreciated your efforts.  It beat the heck out of the burning of buildings and other nasty things that could have happened in that day and age.


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## ronparise (Sep 10, 2012)

gdunn said:


> Here's one the book can't answer:
> 
> What's the worst thing about not just Wyndham but any timeshare that you've experienced?



The best thing about timeshares are some of the folks Ive met here on tug..and the worst thing about timeshares are......wait for it......... some of the folks Ive met here on tug. And in one case its the same person


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## gdunn (Sep 11, 2012)

I really do appreciate all the responses.

I'm not going to say this will be the end of my questions, but I think I have a better grasp of what it is and where to really start digging in to get a better understanding.

I do appreciate everyone's patience with me. I know I have a ton more studying and research to do before I pull the trigger on any "vacation ownership" or timeshare. I'm actually going to see my buddy this weekend at a 3D bowshoot that has the BlueGreen membership and see if I can understand how he got in and how his works.


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## rrlongwell (Sep 11, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> rrlongwell ---
> _What band wagon are you on today?_ Are you bashing fellow TUGGERs who have answered this thread with posts trying to explain answers to questions asked, trying to imply YOUR Wyndham rules are NOT the same as everyone elses rules (as you brought/inherited Platimun VIP status with Wyndham points) or not so secretly pimping YOUR new interest in renting your Wyndham timeshare reservations (oh hail, the newest Megarenter)?
> 
> And if I am stepping on YOUR TOES, "oh well, STUFF happens! And I was not in the service, but was one of those hippie, "flower in my hair" girls putting a flowers in the ROTC guys rifles while burning my bra.



Message received, cross the the Mega Rentor/re-seller TUG click or do not carry their approved company line, face the penalities of being attacked on line.  All hail the mega rentors/re-sellers.

Oh well, I guess at some point, if it is not already here for all practical puposes, only the "Company Line" will be left.  Oh, by they way do not forget to sell your good timeshare contract to the that group for a dollar.  Or in the alternative, maybe one or more of them may take it off your hands for your paying them about a $1,000 dollars.  Do not forget to make it good funds.

Trust me, if someone make this offer to you, do your due dilegence and see what it is really worth.

Almost forgot, what appears to be the mega rentor/re-seller new motto is "my way or the highway".


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## Sandi Bo (Sep 11, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> Any pictures????


:rofl: :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:


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