# RCI - Exchange plus cash ?? !!!



## catwgirl (Aug 26, 2007)

I just did an RCI search for Hawaii.  A unit came up in Maui, and in the listing there were two new symbols:  (cannot get the symbols to paste correctly here)

 - Exchange Unit(s) Available (with an orange symbol)
 - Exchange + Cash Unit(s) Available (with a green symbol)

Anyway, the unit available was a "unit for exchange."  But apparently, now there are going to be units for "exchange plus cash."

 What NEXT???!!!


----------



## barndweller (Aug 26, 2007)

I don't use RCI, but my guess is that they have instituted an upgrade fee like we pay when using the independent exchange companies. So if you are using a 1 bedroom to search and a 2 bedroom is available you can exchange but pay cash for the upgrade.  Like I said, just a guess.


----------



## IreneLF (Aug 26, 2007)

I tried some searchers this morning too and saw the symbols,  but all my searches matched for straight exchange,  so don't know more about this new feature. 
Of course I couldn't find anything about it on their website.

(Gee where is Madge when you need her?

I'm hoping it's just what Barndweller said, as in cash for an upgrade situation, but regardless I do not like the trend...a little cash for some things now now , more cash in future...


----------



## sfwilshire (Aug 26, 2007)

My guess is that RCI, in their usual tactful way, modified the website before this new "feature" was announced or implemented. I looked quite a bit to see if I could find an exchange+cash unit available and didn't see any. I'm sure this won't be good for members. 

I have always been a big supporter of RCI, but I may use the three weeks I have on deposit and start using II more exclusively. 

Sheila


----------



## EvelynK72 (Aug 26, 2007)

*New feature & annoying popup*

I noticed this new feature too.  I also noticed a warning box that appears when I do a search.  After I enter the dates for my search and click to initiate the search, a box pops us warning me that the page I want contains both secure and unsecure items and asks if I want to view the unsecure items.  This warning box also appears if I try to "view all" of the resorts.  Boy is this annoying!

Is anyone else getting that security warning box?


----------



## grest (Aug 26, 2007)

Maybe RCI will explain it to us at some point...!!!  And yes, I get that annoying little box too.
Connie


----------



## e.bram (Aug 26, 2007)

What is going to happen to the guy that deposits a prime red week. RCI gives that week to dog depositor + cash and leaves the prime depositor with his choice of dogs. How long before the prime depositor figures out what is going on and stops depositing.


----------



## PerryM (Aug 26, 2007)

*Bye bye free upgrades; hello upgrade charges....*

This is fantastic – you now pay “rent” even in the RCI Week exchange system – fantastic RCI.

Gone are the days of upgrades for free – now you must pay thru the nose.

If this is true, and I don’t know if it is, I can hear a huge rebellion forming – paying for upgrades that were free before?

Hello RCI Points; it was designed to be a level playing field from day one.  There are no fees for upgrades here, just your RCI Points.

Call out the lawyers, the class action lawsuits, the Attorney Generals - they will save you.

P.S.
II cover your ears with your hands, this is a topic that should not interest you

P.P.S.
Hey, someone needs to pay for all the legal expenses of the class action lawsuits many here want brought against RCI.  Who do you think pays for these expenses?  The Timeshare Fairy?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Aug 26, 2007)

This is actually what some people have hoped would happen.  C'mon people!  If you can get something great with your blue week, you would do it, wouldn't you? 

I think they put this here to let us know this is coming.  So far, my lowly blue week is pulling everything it did before with no charges.  I also cannot pull any inventory a year out in Hawaii, but that may be in my future.   

This is just like points, everyone.  Points is a system where you pay more for a prime deposit.  Points equate to money in RCI points.  This change is probably not a huge deal, unless they charge $500 more.  I expect the charges will be up to $250 more for a prime exchange and/or  upgrade in unit size.   This can open up a whole bunch of availability to those of us who have poor traders.

What I find annoying is there is no explanation in the Answer Place, nor does a search of the site contain anything on the new program.  I think they will be inundated with calls from angry customers.  Why not write a paragraph or two to explain what is going on?


----------



## theo (Aug 26, 2007)

*What next? Maybe don't ask....*

Re: >> But apparently, now there are going to be units for "exchange plus cash."  What NEXT???!!!
=======================================================

Stand by for "cash, minus exchange", an innovative and unprecedented RCI program in which (in addition to your annual RCI membership fee) you will be able to deposit your week, send RCI some cash in addition -- and STILL get absolutely nothing desirable in return. The new program, whose rollout name has yet to be determined, will admittedly appeal only to only a limited number of die hard RCI supporters.......but may help RCI to pay the defense lawyers in the lawsuit filed against them.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 26, 2007)

RCI= Rents Condo's Intead

I suppose there would be less uproar if RCI offered exchange plus cash back for those that own strong exchangers.


----------



## EvelynK72 (Aug 26, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What I find annoying is there is no explanation in the Answer Place, nor does a search of the site contain anything on the new program. I think they will be inundated with calls from angry customers. Why not write a paragraph or two to explain what is going on?


 
I've already sent my email via the RCI site asking for an explanation of the annoying box and the new icons.  Maybe we should all inundate RCI with email!


----------



## jancpa (Aug 26, 2007)

Maybe this program will be similar to the RCI Cruise exchange where you give up your week plus cash and end up with something more expensive than if you had rented somewhere else.


----------



## PerryM (Aug 26, 2007)

*Pay your fair share...the politicians always demand this...*



rickandcindy23 said:


> .............
> This is just like points, everyone.  *Points is a system where you pay more for a prime deposit.  Points equate to money in RCI points.*  This change is probably not a huge deal, unless they charge $500 more.  I expect the charges will be up to $250 more for a prime exchange and/or  upgrade in unit size.   This can open up a whole bunch of availability to those of us who have poor traders.
> .........



This is a great Point (Pun intended)!  It's brilliant!

RCI has allowed this inequity to go on for far too long.  It's time folks paid their fair share (I listen to the politicians every day say this stuff)!

Weeks maybe morphing into Points right in front of our face.  How long before the "Big Conversion" notice is posted?


----------



## JLB (Aug 26, 2007)

I bet Madge will be along shortly to explain it.  

This is something they have been promising/threatening for some time. I heard about it, gosh, somewhere, maybe a year ago.   

Actually, it is similar to what I asked if we could do when we first started almost 20 years ago.

- Exchange Unit(s) Available
- Exchange + Cash Unit(s) Available

I had not done my daily searches the last two mornings so this morning is the first time I saw this.

The first thing I noticed that was new (out of place) was the Exchange icon. Then as I opened up some resorts I noticed the Exchange + Cash icon. I didn't see anything that had the + Cash option.

As to my most important searches, it does not make any difference, since it appears nothing decent is being deposited.

Like most things RCI, it is suspicious.  For one thing, it seems that many have been reporting a reduction in trading power the past couple of years.  In evaluating a company (or a person, I guess), it is best to rely on the total of their work, and in this case there have been so many suspicious moves that all actions are now suspect.

The proof of the pudding will be the result.  If it makes available better resorts (or, in some cases, any resort at all), for a reasonable amount of $$$, when presently those are not available, then it may be good.

Of course, that would be suspect, the question being why were those resorts not already being seen, especially by the better traders, and the naysayers would immediately assume something like it being rental inventory that they have now had enough experience with to know that it is likely to be excess rental inventory.   

FWIW, it did not change the results for the four daily searches I have been doing. 




rickandcindy23 said:


> This is actually what some people have hoped would happen.  C'mon people!  If you can get something great with your blue week, you would do it, wouldn't you?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Aug 26, 2007)

I never know if you are being serious or not, Perry.  

Remember the infamous thread by Hatrack that equated exchanges through RCI points into produce--fruits and vegetables?  That thread was closed and disappeared, but it was a brilliant insight into what is now happening.


----------



## sfwilshire (Aug 26, 2007)

EvelynK72 said:


> Is anyone else getting that security warning box?



I am, over and over. You're right. It's very annoying.

Sheila


----------



## PerryM (Aug 26, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I never know if you are being serious or not, Perry.
> 
> Remember the infamous thread by Hatrack that equated exchanges through RCI points into produce--fruits and vegetables?  That thread was closed and disappeared, but it was a brilliant insight into what is now happening.




I'm not kidding, you hit the nail right on the head - I missed it.


----------



## timeos2 (Aug 26, 2007)

*The basis may be legitimate. The execution will be, as usual, atrocious*

Anyone still think the week for week system isn't broken?  While this idea would appear to be another high overhead, "exchange for cruise discount" type sham the underlying issue is real. Few weeks deposited match up reasonably with weeks desired. There is almost always a greater or lesser value. The secret trade power/VEP/etc tried to handle the disparity but was easily defeated. So now they may try a more open system in a points version everyone understands - cash.  Of course to be fair you would also have to see a "cash back" button so you can take a great value week and use it for two or three dogs, should you desire that downward trade, as you can in a points system.  

While I think the theory - making trades equal - is a good one and was supposed to be in place all along, I have no delusions that RCI would actually handle this correctly to return fair trade in and out as one would expect. It most likely is conceived as yet another money maker with little or no relationship to the actual problem of unequally valued weeks.  If it manages to expose the secret valuation and offers a method to improve (or decrease) the value of your deposit vs your desired trade it could actually have a real value. But history says it will be another in the long line of botched implementations of an otherwise valid concept by RCI.  

They should bite the bullet, admit everything has an assigned value (usually expressed as some type of points or credits) and make it all one big open pot - points, weeks, cash, so everyone knows what they have and what things cost. I guess it's more profitable to play these games with partial disclosure and secret valuations to keep raising the fees ever way possible.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 26, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> .........They should bite the bullet, admit everything has an assigned value (usually expressed as some type of points or credits) and make it all one big open pot - points, weeks, cash, so everyone knows what they have and what things cost. I guess it's more profitable to play these games with partial disclosure and secret valuations to keep raising the fees ever way possible.



The rub there would, of course, be the developers. I don't believe the developers of lessor resorts would be all that happy to have RCI expose their weakness of being a poor trading location. How long have the Orlando TS's been selling themselves as the best traders because Orlando has the highest number of tourists per year?

Should any exchange company become completely transparent my bet is you'll have a full fledge revolt from the developers. The same developers who provide inventory that RCI rents out for profit.


----------



## Judy (Aug 26, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This is just like points, everyone.  Points is a system where you pay more for a prime deposit.  Points equate to money in RCI points.  This change is probably not a huge deal, unless they charge $500 more.  I expect the charges will be up to $250 more for a prime exchange and/or  upgrade in unit size.   This can open up a whole bunch of availability to those of us who have poor traders.


And for those of us who have strong traders, less availability  I don't see any icon for "2 for 1 exchange"  :annoyed:

I had hoped that the exchange + cash might refer to all-inclusives.  But I searched for them and none came up with the exchange + cash icon.


----------



## PigsDad (Aug 26, 2007)

This is essentially the same as what Redweek is doing, no?  And the general consensus on the threads I saw was that people thought the idea was pretty fair -- if you have a lesser property and you want to trade into a greater property, you can pay the difference in $$.

I am guessing the big deal here is that you used to get upgrades for free, and now it looks like things are going to be evened out.  I am new to TS, but I always wondered how a system could be sustained where people were always bragging about what a good trade they got through RCI.  For every "good" trade, I would think there would have to be an equal "bad" trade to maintain equality.

Kurt


----------



## timeos2 (Aug 26, 2007)

*What a concept. Equal value in trades!*



PigsDad said:


> This is essentially the same as what Redweek is doing, no?  And the general consensus on the threads I saw was that people thought the idea was pretty fair -- if you have a lesser property and you want to trade into a greater property, you can pay the difference in $$.
> 
> I am guessing the big deal here is that you used to get upgrades for free, and now it looks like things are going to be evened out.  I am new to TS, but I always wondered how a system could be sustained where people were always bragging about what a good trade they got through RCI.  For every "good" trade, I would think there would have to be an equal "bad" trade to maintain equality.
> 
> Kurt



Kurt - You catch on fast!  While most weeks advocates deny it, the basis of week for week is giving value to deposits that have little or no value through trade ups.  Some, like Perry & Boca, may not be advocates but openly admit they use the trade up opportunities of weeks systems.  A few even state that the idea of taking dog times and having owners pay a full shot annual fee then using that to get better properties through week for week trades is what supports some resorts!  Yet, according to them, this is a valid process to have owners of better resorts/times subsidize the dog weeks even as those dog weeks subsidize the few valuable weeks at those resorts. See the tangled web they create to support a basically flawed and unsustainable system? 

Both those owners and the developers (who have to try to sell those undesirable weeks!) have loved the secret process used by RCI/II and others that hide the values and give the impression that you can "trade anywhere" once you own.  Nonsense of course but the previously free upgrades stoked the belief.  As things are brought closer to equal the poor value weeks are howling. They hate points as they clearly show the real value (or lack thereof) of each use period. Tough to sell February on the coast if you only get a few points and an annual bill for the same amount as the high point value given to the owner of a July week.  Openness is the bane of seasonal timeshare sales. 

This will all shake out eventually.  The old ways have been exposed by the Internet, tons of cheap resales, points systems and the mini-systems.  Eventually the very idea that any week simply trades for another week will be history as every exchange will have a disclosed balancing factor up or down - just like points already does.  The days of smoke and mirrors are nearing an end.


----------



## JLB (Aug 26, 2007)

What would really be suspicious is if TS resorts appear for exchange plus cash that have not been appearing with a top trader.

It could be that non-timeshare properties, stuff that has not been deposited by owners, may now be made available this way, with exchange plus cash regardless of trading power.

Let's just wait and see.  :wink:


----------



## 4dabirds (Aug 26, 2007)

Okay guys... it's a rental scheme that COULD be used to equalize trading. The problem is that I come along and pay $500 for the good week - RCI made money off of someone's deposit and the REST of the members are no better off. The only thing different is I didn't get the trade up for free - eveyone else still gets the shaft.

Where is the love?

Kim


----------



## wauhob3 (Aug 26, 2007)

Won't that mean those that have strong traders won't have the availability of the weeks they want because they are taken? Also where's the get money back feature if you chose a weak trade?


----------



## myip (Aug 26, 2007)

How much money are RCI asking?  Any example...


----------



## rapmarks (Aug 26, 2007)

RCI does not offer me much for my two bedroom, gold crown weeks spacebanked for Sept or june.  Now they are going to charge me extra to upgrade?  Why do they tell the resort it is gold crown if it is worth so little?


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 26, 2007)

I said this OY so I'll say it here. All this does is highlight the importance of being in a really good mini-system that fits your needs. By having internal trading power within that mini-system, you can avoid the hidden secrete agenda's of the independant exchange companys. Most mini-systems I've seen have been reasonably open about what you're buying and what it's worth. Inside the mini-system is a built in lower level to buy in and a way to trade up and/or buy up. It works very well for the developer and the owner of the mini-system.

The rub, if you're a resale buyer developers have caught onto that. Some mini-systems will allow you to own the deed yet not be a part of the internal mini-system without paying to become a member. Negotiation might then become an important tool when buying any package or upgrade from the developer to include units purchased resale.

Gone are the days of owning the super cheap South African week and getting great trades through RCI or I.I. Gone are the days of the great Blue or White weeks grabing decent red weeks. 

The timeshare landscape is changing again and it's changed with essentially little or no warning. A few years ago most people were saying buy cheap and trade for what you want. Some said buy where you want to go (still a great idea IMO). Now I believe it's going to be buy a good mini-system or buy into the major exchange companies points programs.

In the past I've been a supporter of weeks rather than points. That position is no longer feasable as the exchange companies evolve to either squeeze more money out of me, level the playing field or both. In the past I've purchased the unit we wanted to own and where we wanted to go. 

Unfortunately for me, the first two units we ever purchased were at an idependant resort and over time have become units that have now become strictly exchange units. Fortunately for me that company, DRI, purchased Sunterra and I've had the opportunity (for an additional price) to become part of a mini-system that, while it might not be ideal for me, fits most of my needs, gives me a stated value for my units and gives me flexibility to use those units to get to many places we have yet to travel. In looking at it there will be a life expectancy of usefullness unless new resorts are added or we want to go back to places we've visited. However, it also gives something of a stated value with one of the exchange companys. I know how many points it takes for a 2 bedroom unit, just not the exact quality (as of yet) those points will get. So long as it's like for like or quality for quality I'll be happy. It's great to trade up but, this isn't one of the top resorts in the world and I don't necessarily expect to get the top resorts in the world with these units. 

I have two resorts left that are not part of any system and two (Marriott) that have some owner preference for internal exchanges through I.I. At this point I firmly believe that Marriott will be forced to develope it's own internal mini-system at sometime in the future. That will leave me with two resorts left out in the cold. Fortunately, all of these units (Marriott and the 2 others) are units we are still actively using and plan to continue to actively use for several years to come. All were purchased unit/type and/or location specific. All are what we wanted to own and not was cheapest or easily available on E-bay so the units have worth to us. 

So in most ways I've been lucky. Lucky that the units I was using are now inside a mini-system and lucky the the units outside the mini-system are units we are happy in locations we enjoy vacationing. 

Yesteryear the advice was buy cheap South African weeks resale and trade up. Yesterday it was own where you want to stay and trade up. Today I believe we've moved into the own a unit in a good mini-system where you want to stay and trade within that system. 

Personally I'm down to one unit that I'll be trading through I.I on a regular basis and that's the one bedroom LO of the 3 bedroom Marriott Grand Chateau we own. If I didn't have that one unit I'd seriously consider dropping I.I. as a member except for the corporate account through Sunterra. This year will be the last with RCI except for the corporate account with HGVC. If Marriott ever gets it's own internal system I.I. will expire with the last year we've paid through (2012 I believe).

Don't get me wrong, I.I. has been good to us. It's just that with the rapid changes RCI has made over the last few years it appears to me that the writing is on the wall. Things have changed and I must change the way I use my timeshare. It's unfortunate that in order to protect myself I'm at the mercy of developers and to get what I want (and thought I had purchased years ago) will cost me more money. But isn't that how timesharing goes? They change the landscape to "even out the playing field" and it ends up costing me money or forcing me to make changes (buy/sell) to keep myself positioned to get what I want out of vacationing.


----------



## KristinB (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but my guess is this: the exchange plus cash weeks are developer inventory, not regular deposits.

BocaBum hypothesized in another thread something that I've believed all along -- the developer deposits of weeks from resorts that are in active sales have dried up somewhat in recent years, and this accounts for *some* of the reduced exchange availability that everyone has noticed.

Perhaps this is RCI's attempt to get some of these developer deposits back into the system, albeit at a greater cost to the RCI member.


----------



## djyamyam (Aug 27, 2007)

KristinB said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here, but my guess is this: the exchange plus cash weeks are developer inventory, not regular deposits.


 
That's what an RCI Web guide told me earlier this morning when I called in to check.  The guide wasn't 100% sure and was going to check with the higher ups but that was the theory.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Aug 27, 2007)

All of this bears out the advice that first and foremost, if you're going to buy weeks, make sure you own somewhere that you will enjoy going in the event that exchanges become non-existent or impractical.

The movement towards points would seem to insulate folks a bit from such insanity, since you will have greater flexibility within your "system" of resorts.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether or not the skepticism is appropriate or not.


----------



## JLB (Aug 27, 2007)

The daily searches I do should be an excellent way to see what, if anything, this new option means. I have many, many searches to establish a base line.

Searching for Jan 2009 I have a top trader and a medicore trader. The top trader has been seeing 50-54 resorts for Resorts on the Beach. The medicore trader has been seeing 18 or 19.

I would think that the effect of exchange plus cash would/will show up using these searches, since I know 30-plus more resorts are showing up with the top trader.

So far the numbers have not changed and none of them have had the Plus Cash option.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the Plus Cash will make available non-timeshare inventory, stuff that has been obtained through the emphasis on acquiring vacation rental properties.  That is saying that it might be more than just developer inventory, but also include stuff that is not timeshare at all.

I am saying that because don't you think making Spacebank deposits available for Exchange Plus Cash would be a very risky move legally right now?

As I said before, let's wait and see.


----------



## jancpa (Aug 27, 2007)

Other than bulk bank deposits, I wonder what percentage our trade-ups are from developer inventory anyway.


----------



## Judy (Aug 27, 2007)

I ran a search just now.  The icon was still there, but the description, "Exchange + cash" wasn't.

I sent an email to RCI and received a stalling non-answer.


----------



## shagnut (Aug 27, 2007)

The  security thing pops up , but I have other sites that do that so that didn't bother me. I have a cheap 2br in the bank so nothing pops up about paying extra. If my 1br does that (and I won't until next yr) I will drop RCI like a hot potato. I have been happy with RCI exchanges so I hope this isn't so.  I know that a lot of people think it's a great thing changing like for like but as most of you know I am the master at turning cheap into class!! shaggy


----------

