# Trying to recover almost $10,000.00



## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi All, Hoping for a bit of advice from you guys. My Aunt has paid almost $10,000.00 to one of these 'time share reselling companies'. First payment was in November 2013 for almost 4k. Then she has paid 3 more times since then every 4 months coming to almost 10k. Obviously they told her on each occasion there was a buyer waiting and this was untrue as she still has it and no offers have ever come forward. She paid each time by credit card so i think this may be her only chance to recoup the money. The agreement i have shows they would advertise a full page in their magazine and the ad isn't full page. I see this as a breach of the agreement. The agreement said it would autorenew at a cost of 9.95 per month which it has so i dont see how they are allowed to ask her for the large sums of money after the first 4k. 
My questions are 1. Do you think the credit card company will reimburse my Aunt as the company havent provided the services. The last payment of c.2k was in Dec 2014.
2. Her timeshare is in Florida and i understand the FTC are quite strict in this state on these issues. Have they broken any laws that i could realistically get her money back that way.
My aunt is in her 80s and in poor health. She is naive and im worried they will come after her for more money. I dont live here so trying my best while im in the states to get this resolved.
She also wants her timeshare sold so i will look to advertise it on here soon.

I guess this story is quite common so any help would be great...thanks in advance!


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## DeniseM (Feb 9, 2015)

You should help your aunt dispute it with her credit card immediately.

Don't wait - time is running out.

Unfortunately, her timeshare probably has no resale value - most timeshare resale for 0-10% of original retail.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

Does your Aunt live in the United States ? If so, what state ?

Where is the timeshare reseller located ?

Please read the info here and contact them as well:  http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/EC5743A729C962188525791B006A54E9


Please start organizing the information in a chronological and organized manner. You'll need all documents, phone numbers, names, credit card statements, contracts, etc.  and whatever your Auntie can remember.



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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks both - My Aunt is in Florida. Im here with my family visiting from UK. Im going to draft the letter to the credit card companies while im here. Do you think they will refund? The time share resellers didn't fulfil the agreement so should i go that route with them? Thanks. Also will approaching the better business bureau be of any use?


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> Thanks both - My Aunt is in Florida. Im here with my family visiting from UK. Im going to draft the letter to the credit card companies while im here. Do you think they will refund? The time share resellers didn't fulfil the agreement so should i go that route with them? Thanks. Also will approaching the better business bureau be of any use?



 Maybe some, no and no.

The BBB is useless and does not figure into anything.



 You need to notify the Attorney General as advised.


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## DeniseM (Feb 9, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> Thanks both - My Aunt is in Florida. Im here with my family visiting from UK. Im going to draft the letter to the credit card companies while im here. Do you think they will refund? The time share resellers didn't fulfil the agreement so should i go that route with them? Thanks. Also will approaching the better business bureau be of any use?



Before you write a letter, help your Aunt call her credit card company - they can advise you as to exactly what she needs to do.  Also, help your Aunt organize anything she has in writing. 

The people that took your Aunt's money are just scammers - they are not going to help you - you need to present an organized and concise dispute to the credit card company.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

Yes, talk to the credit card company immediately and dispute whatever charges you can. Do not let the scammers charge anything more. You/Auntie should cancel this card.


Read this, call them and fill out the complaint asap.



http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/9161973ee14fdb1a85256cc900600947!opendocument


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## Rent_Share (Feb 9, 2015)

You may want to reach out to a consumer affairs reporter for a station local to where the abuse is taking place


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

Rent_Share said:


> You may want to reach out to a consumer affairs reporter for a station local to where the abuse is taking place



Great idea.


Here's an article from Bloomberg with a reporter's name. Scroll down.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rs-say-191-timeshare-cases-filed-in-crackdown

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## TUGBrian (Feb 9, 2015)

do all of this

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_scam_retaliation.html


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## ace2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> do all of this
> 
> http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_scam_retaliation.html



First time I've read through that TUG advice.  Very nicely done!!!


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 9, 2015)

Ill call the Pam Bondi number tomorrow. Im working with limited information but have what i need. My Aunt has literally just gone into an old peoples home so hopefully the scammers cant reach her there. The sad thing is she thinks these people are trying to help her as they are very persuasive by all accounts. 
She is proud and quite stubborn so its not easy for me to get her to understand the situation she is in. I emailed the company called Pro Timeshare Resales in Deland Florida. They called her mobile number almost immediately and wanted to speak to her directly as all the correspondence they had had in the past was by phone / fax. I have no idea how these people sleep at night!
In my opinion they have not fulfilled the agreement they had with her as it wasnt advertised correctly. Not to mention the so called buyer not approaching her.


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## ace2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> In my opinion they have not fulfilled the agreement they had with her as it wasnt advertised correctly. Not to mention the so called buyer not approaching her.



You have to realize that this is a well known scam and you are one of many that have come to TUG and complained.  They take your money and accomplish nothing in return.  We know all about them.


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## DeniseM (Feb 9, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> In my opinion they have not fulfilled the agreement they had with her as it wasnt advertised correctly. Not to mention the so called buyer not approaching her.



These people are simply scammers:  there were no sales, there were no buyers - they never had any intention of selling her timeshare.  This is a common story.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> Ill call the Pam Bondi number tomorrow. Im working with limited information but have what i need. My Aunt has literally just gone into an old peoples home so hopefully the scammers cant reach her there. The sad thing is she thinks these people are trying to help her as they are very persuasive by all accounts.
> She is proud and quite stubborn so its not easy for me to get her to understand the situation she is in. I emailed the company called Pro Timeshare Resales in Deland Florida. They called her mobile number almost immediately and wanted to speak to her directly as all the correspondence they had had in the past was by phone / fax. I have no idea how these people sleep at night!
> In my opinion they have not fulfilled the agreement they had with her as it wasnt advertised correctly. Not to mention the so called buyer not approaching her.



Pam Bondi is the Attorney General of Florida. Call the number and speak to someone who can give you legal advice. Have all the info at hand when you call.
Florida is vigorously prosecuting these scammers now. 

Who is your Aunt's legal representative (if she has one) ? Is she mentally competent to handle her own affairs ?
Please notify the rest home/nursing home and restrict any calls or visits from these scumbags. Notify the police dept. if you have to.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 9, 2015)

OMG.

Read the BBB reports on these scumbags.  It reads like collection of horror stories, each one, 58 complaints. 

Again, the BBB cannot do anything (they serve as good place to "out" companies) it's more of a sounding board, but please read the 7 pages of complaints and so-called responses. There may be some good info to glean here:


http://www.bbb.org/central-florida/...hare-resales-in-deland-fl-90139770/complaints

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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks all - i seem to be in the right place now. With you're well founded information i have found some excellent advice to utilise. A very well spent fifteen bucks!


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## TUGBrian (Feb 10, 2015)

are by chance you/your aunt or this company located in orlando?


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 10, 2015)

The resale advertising company are in Deland, Florida(near Orlando). My Aunt has lived in Florida since she retired over 20 years ago and has owned this time share for c.10 years. Silly question - does anyone know how i find out the 'points' she has on her TS?
She has a HGVC TS in Orlando and i have emailed them to find out the resale options they have. Im pretty sure she is up to date on paying her s/charge as i saw the bill for 2015. She has paid it from what i can see.
PS. I have also filed a complaint with the attorney general after your helpful advice.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 10, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> The resale advertising company are in Deland, Florida(near Orlando). My Aunt has lived in Florida since she retired over 20 years ago and has owned this time share for c.10 years. Silly question - does anyone know how i find out the 'points' she has on her TS?
> She has a HGVC TS in Orlando and i have emailed them to find out the resale options they have. Im pretty sure she is up to date on paying her s/charge as i saw the bill for 2015. She has paid it from what i can see.
> PS. I have also filed a complaint with the attorney general after your helpful advice.



  That's good, but please follow all the steps in post #10 as soon as possible.

Hope you've called the credit card company. They're open all hours.

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## pedro47 (Feb 10, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> do all of this
> 
> http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_scam_retaliation.html



Thanks Brian for sharing this with everyone.


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## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2015)

The OP is getting good advice for dealing with the resale thieves who've preyed on his elderly aunt. I wish them well and hope for a refund of money spent in vain. Since it was sent voluntarily (though under fraudulent pretenses), I am not holding my breath.

But to the original problem. That is, the TS that Auntie wants rid of. If it does have some value, perhaps one of the TUG member brokers could undertake its disposal?

Then, there is the likelihood that since she is in a care facility, and is unlikely to be needing a great credit score, if she simply defaulted, and stopped paying her MF as so many have, eventually they would foreclose and she'd be done with it.

Obviously marketing it to a new owner is best all around, but not the only solution.

Jim


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## RX8 (Feb 10, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> OMG.
> 
> Read the BBB reports on these scumbags.  It reads like collection of horror stories, each one, 58 complaints.
> 
> ...





How could a company with a BBB profile just since 2012 be rated an A- with 58 complaints???  They are not BBB accredited either. That "scoring" system is broken!


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 10, 2015)

RX8 said:


> How could a company with a BBB profile just since 2012 be rated an A- with 58 complaints???  They are not BBB accredited either. That "scoring" system is broken!



Where did you see the A- rating ?  I saw that it was not BBB accredited.

The BBB is useless and is a relic.

On these 58 complaints, the BBB gives a number - 34?- resolved but I read just about all of the cases and cannot see it. I did see where folks just gave up because of the nonsense.


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## RX8 (Feb 10, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Where did you see the A- rating ?  I saw that it was not BBB accredited
> -



The link takes you to the complaints.  Click on Overview  for the rating. 

The BBB must have read my post because NOW they are a B- with the same number of complaints.


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 10, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> That's good, but please follow all the steps in post #10 as soon as possible.
> 
> Hope you've called the credit card company. They're open all hours.
> 
> ...



Hi Beaglemom - I would have called them as soon as i was aware of the transactions. Problem is it's not my credit card and i dont have power of attorney. The card issuer will only speak to my Auntie and she has still not fully grasped what is happening. She is still in recovery and quite sedated so its not straightforward. Have no fear...As soon as she is able the call will be made 
I also wholeheartedly agree about the BBB. I was confused how they were rated due to the complaints they had!


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## Sandy VDH (Feb 10, 2015)

HGVC will at least have value, one of the few timeshares that do, provided it is at least Gold or Platinum season.  Silver and Bronze will be harder to unload, is does not really have value.  

You will have to know what season you own to know how many points you have.  Paying MF will NOT tell you that as all season have the same MF but the points you receive are different.  

Can you find out your Aunts HGVC logon, or call HGVC and ask.  They may be able to shed some light on the season. 

There are some reputable HGVC resellers on these boards, but again you will need points detail before you can obtain any valuation.


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 10, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> Hi Beaglemom - I would have called them as soon as i was aware of the transactions. Problem is it's not my credit card and i dont have power of attorney. The card issuer will only speak to my Auntie and she has still not fully grasped what is happening. She is still in recovery and quite sedated so its not straightforward. Have no fear...As soon as she is able the call will be made
> I also wholeheartedly agree about the BBB. I was confused how they were rated due to the complaints they had!



  I was hoping that the Attorney General would intercede as elder fraud is tantamount to elder abuse.

  You're a good nephew/niece.

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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 10, 2015)

Sandy VDH said:


> HGVC will at least have value, one of the few timeshares that do, provided it is at least Gold or Platinum season.  Silver and Bronze will be harder to unload, is does not really have value.
> 
> You will have to know what season you own to know how many points you have.  Paying MF will NOT tell you that as all season have the same MF but the points you receive are different.
> 
> ...



It seems my Auntie chose wisely. Its week 7 in a 2 bed/bath platinum at Seaworld. 7000 pts. 
Guess every cloud has a silver lining...!


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## Bill4728 (Feb 12, 2015)

Sandy VDH said:


> HGVC will at least have value, one of the few timeshares that do, provided it is at least Gold or Platinum season.  Silver and Bronze will be harder to unload, is does not really have value.
> 
> You will have to know what season you own to know how many points you have.  Paying MF will NOT tell you that as all season have the same MF but the points you receive are different.
> 
> ...





MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> It seems my Auntie chose wisely. Its week 7 in a 2 bed/bath platinum at Seaworld. 7000 pts.
> Guess every cloud has a silver lining...!



YES  HGVC does have some value   This TS will likely get her around $7,000 or more. SO do not give it away.  If you look on the HGVC board there are three or four resellers who sell HGVC all the time and any one of them can sell it for your aunt and get a good price. 

Good Luck


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 12, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> YES  HGVC does have some value   This TS will likely get her around $7,000 or more. SO do not give it away.  If you look on the HGVC board there are three or four resellers who sell HGVC all the time and any one of them can sell it for your aunt and get a good price.
> 
> Good Luck



Thanks Bill. HGVC have told me they value it between 10 and 11k. Their people take 25% on sale price though. Not sure what that percentage includes. Have enquired. 
If it includes all legals etc and they find a buyer(and of course she only pays any commission after sale complete!) I think she will have to take it.
2015 fees are paid up so that helps too.


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## Judi Kozlowski (Feb 13, 2015)

*MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp*

[Judi - this is a very kind offer, but can you please send it with a private message/email, instead.]


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## JudyS (Feb 13, 2015)

I agree with the advice to dispute the charges with your Aunt's credit card company, and also contact the Florida Attorney General. Some similar scammers (other ones who charge large upfront fees for sales that never materialize) have faced criminal charges. I think in some cases, U.S. state governments have forced upfront fee scammers to make restitution to the people they scammed. 

Another possible source of assistance would be the AARP (formerly called the American Association Of Retired People). They have a program to fight scams against the elderly, http://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/fraud-watch-network/  They have no ability to compel the scammers to return the money, but can offer advice. 

The Florida Department of Elder Affairs might be able to help, too.  They are at http://elderaffairs.state.fl.us/index.php


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## Jennie (Feb 14, 2015)

I would recommend that you schedule an appointment with an Elder Care Attorney. Many offer a free consultation. The facility where auntie is receiving treatment should be able to recommend an attorney.

This is especially important if your aunt is receiving government assistance for her medical bills. But if her bills are being covered by Medicare or a health insurance plan, it may not be an issue. 

It might be possible to transfer the timeshare to you or another trustworthy friend or relative and then sell it in under the new owner's name. Or keep it for future use, or rent it for income.

If your aunt sells it in her name, she may have to turn over the money to the government, or agency, that is covering her medical bills.

Maybe it will be possible for her to keep the proceeds, maybe not.

Good luck in obtaining good advice.

You should also ask the timeshare resort for details about what your aunt owns. How long has she owned it?. 
Who sold it to her?
Are the fees she has paid to the "seller" legitimate? 

You will need more factual information in order to determine if anything that has happened is Illegal. 

If your aunt is legally capable of giving you or another trusted person Power of Attorney, that will make it easier to sort out the current options about the timeshare plus many other life issues that may need attention in the future. 


And bless you for all the help you are providing.


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 18, 2015)

Hi Jennie / Judi,

My Aunt does not get any benefit for her medical costs - she has medical insurance that she pays for and will also pay out of her own pocket for her ongoing care needs.

Our complaint has been taken up Attorney General's Seniors vs. Crime Program that helps consumers resolve individual disputes.http://www.seniorsvscrime.com.
They are really interested in the case. I think we have a strong case as The advertising company didn't provide what was in the terms and conditions(full page in monthly dealer magazine etc). The advert appeared in the corner of a back page in one of the magazines. The initial advertising contract that cost c.$3600 was supposed to automatically renew at a cost of $9.95 per month however they asked her for more large sums of money every three months for the same advert. A clear error on their part - obviously "overmilking the cow" so to speak. Also she has only received two monthly magazines from them since December 2013. 
Credit card company(s) have been contacted and cards have now been cancelled.

I'm now looking to fully understand exactly what her timeshare is worth on the resale market with a view to selling it in 2015. I've visited various "genuine" resale sites and the asking price varies for very similar deeded timeshares with same points / unit size / platinum season (week 7) i believe(need to check the docs.). 
Now i am in control and the fees are paid up i'm in no rush to relinquish unless price is right. May even buy it myself


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## HudsHut (Feb 21, 2015)

The value of the contract depends on its size and permitted season of use. I posted a couple of reputable links below where you can contact legitimate resellers.

Before deciding to buy it yourself, go to our HGVC topic and learn about the Hilton program, where the resorts are, and determine if it would be realistic for you to use it every year.

Timeshare has a steep learning curve. Don't make an uninformed decision.

You are a very thoughtful person to help get your Aunt out of this mess. I am very sorry that she was taken advantage of by these thieves.

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/category/listings/hilton/

http://www.timeshareprofessionals.com/BestBuy.htm


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## carl2591 (Feb 24, 2015)

MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp said:


> Hi Jennie / Judi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



be aware of the "genuine" resale sites are full of bogus listing and amounts. best place to look is here on TUG marketplace.. put a call in to resort and see if they have a buy back or deed back program.  just good to know all the options. 

Might be time or past time for power of attorney for this person both medical and financial.

good luck and please let us know how it goes.


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## MyElderlyAuntNeedsHelp (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for further advice and support. The bank are in the process of investigating the disputed transactions. I have faith that they will be able to recoup at least some of the money for her


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