# Rumor - Marriott and DVC Together?



## littlestar (Sep 15, 2009)

There's a pretty strange rumor thread on the Dis boards I thought you guys might enjoy looking at. Something about Marriott buying DVC or managing the resorts. Seems pretty unlikely to me. 

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2284356


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## billymach4 (Sep 15, 2009)

Bill Marriott does resemble Mickey. Bill has big ears. hmmm....


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## littlestar (Sep 15, 2009)

billymach4 said:


> Bill Marriott does resemble Mickey. Bill has big ears. hmmm....



You are bad.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 15, 2009)

This is almost as comical to read as the Marriott Internal Trading system rumor threads.


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## pedro47 (Sep 16, 2009)

littlestar said:


> You are bad.



That was funny !!!!!


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 16, 2009)

littlestar said:


> There's a pretty strange rumor thread on the Dis boards I thought you guys might enjoy looking at. Something about Marriott buying DVC or managing the resorts. Seems pretty unlikely to me.
> 
> http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2284356




Littlestar, when are you next heading to WDW? 

I'll be there next month, staying at VWL. I'll take the boat over to MK and chat with the Captain. Boat Captains always have better intel and are "more in the know" than the bus drivers. :hysterical:


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## ml855 (Sep 16, 2009)

They're really going crazy with this over on the Disboards.


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 16, 2009)

ml855 said:


> They're really going crazy with this over on the Disboards.



Yeah, guess my gang got tired of the "BLT studios are sooo tiny" discussion.


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## lweverett (Sep 16, 2009)

You might coisider that it would be a very good fit, with the close proximity of their respective properties, that Marriott may just manage the Disney properties if they didn't want the bother.  This could be done while maintaining the separate brands.


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## ldanna (Sep 16, 2009)

ml855 said:


> They're really going crazy with this over on the Disboards.



Besides the rumours, why are people going crazy about this? Do the DVC people consider this good or bad?

I don't think Disney would sell their TS company, but they would add a lot of benifits by adding Marriott as a Manager of their properties. They could convert their units in points, use the Marriotts hotels and even MVCI. It would expand their possibilities for sure.

It would be very interesting for DVC owners. For us, Marriott owners, could be better to have Marriott preference for DVC units (they have to come back to II), how about that? I shouldn't say this, but I will: maybe this new feature would be only for people that bought developer.


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## Swice (Sep 16, 2009)

*I don't believe it.*

I simply can't see it happening.


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## littlestar (Sep 16, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Littlestar, when are you next heading to WDW?
> 
> I'll be there next month, staying at VWL. I'll take the boat over to MK and chat with the Captain. Boat Captains always have better intel and are "more in the know" than the bus drivers. :hysterical:



I'll be at Marriott's Cypress Harbour for a day next month and then checking into Disney's SSR for a week. Unless I decide to let my kids take the SSR and me keep the Cypress Harbour all week. We've also got a Sheraton Vistana Villages unit since we've got a large family group going. My husband's wanting to keep the Cypress Harbour all week because of the Marriott Revive bedding and the cable TV -   He can only take so much of Hannah Montana and ESPN oldie but goodie gladiators classics. 

I'll have to chat with the bus drivers for sure to get the real scoop - :rofl: 

I personally think Marriott does a nice job on upkeep and refurbishing their units - I think they have more experience than DVC does at being a hotelier and dealing with timeshares. They've been at it longer and they have resorts all over the world.


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## luvsvacation22 (Sep 16, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Littlestar, when are you next heading to WDW?
> 
> I'll be there next month, staying at VWL. I'll take the boat over to MK and chat with the Captain. Boat Captains always have better intel and are "more in the know" than the bus drivers. :hysterical:



:rofl: :hysterical:


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## b2bailey (Sep 16, 2009)

*Marriott and DVC*

When we purchased at Newport Coast Villas almost ten years ago, we were
told that all of the 'site development, permits, etc.' had been done by Disney. Needless to say, Disney had 'favor' with Orange County as a developer. At some point Disney decided NOT to pursue the development and it became a Marriott Project.

My point is that there are people in 'high up places' that have done a prior deal together.


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 16, 2009)

b2bailey said:


> When we purchased at Newport Coast Villas almost ten years ago, we were
> told that all of the 'site development, permits, etc.' had been done by Disney. Needless to say, Disney had 'favor' with Orange County as a developer. At some point Disney decided NOT to pursue the development and it became a Marriott Project.
> 
> My point is that there are people in 'high up places' that have done a prior deal together.



I think that's when DVC bailed on the "off site" property expansion after Vero Beach and HHI didn't sell as well as they thought.

Disney also sold off what is the Hyatt Mountain Lodge. From the sketches I've seen I think they must have sold the architectural plans too, because the Hyatt looks a lot like what DVC was going to build there.


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 16, 2009)

littlestar said:


> I'll be at Marriott's Cypress Harbour for a day next month and then checking into Disney's SSR for a week. Unless I decide to let my kids take the SSR and me keep the Cypress Harbour all week. We've also got a Sheraton Vistana Villages unit since we've got a large family group going. My husband's wanting to keep the Cypress Harbour all week because of the Marriott Revive bedding and the cable TV -   He can only take so much of Hannah Montana and ESPN oldie but goodie gladiators classics.
> 
> I'll have to chat with the bus drivers for sure to get the real scoop - :rofl:
> 
> I personally think Marriott does a nice job on upkeep and refurbishing their units - I think they have more experience than DVC does at being a hotelier and dealing with timeshares. They've been at it longer and they have resorts all over the world.



I was happy when what was Toon Disney change their morning programming. I can handle Phineus and Ferb, those Jackie Chan cartoons.  

But if you stay off site, you can't watch Stacy and Casey over and over again!:hysterical: 

I had to laugh to my self last year when we went to Summit Watch and they were already scheduled for room rehabs. I thought if this was DVC, they'd be good to go for at least another 5yrs!


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## ml855 (Sep 16, 2009)

ldanna said:


> Besides the rumours, why are people going crazy about this? Do the DVC people consider this good or bad?
> 
> I don't think Disney would sell their TS company, but they would add a lot of benifits by adding Marriott as a Manager of their properties. They could convert their units in points, use the Marriotts hotels and even MVCI. It would expand their possibilities for sure.
> 
> It would be very interesting for DVC owners. For us, Marriott owners, could be better to have Marriott preference for DVC units (they have to come back to II), how about that? I shouldn't say this, but I will: maybe this new feature would be only for people that bought developer.



All I can say is if this really happens than lots of  DVC owners will not be happy.  

Right now it's just a rumor from a discussion with a bus driver, I think it's just a rumor and no truth to it.


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## mas (Sep 16, 2009)

Isn't DVC an RTU?  If so, how would that jive with MVCI's deeded units?


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## littlestar (Sep 16, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> I had to laugh to my self last year when we went to Summit Watch and they were already scheduled for room rehabs. I thought if this was DVC, they'd be good to go for at least another 5yrs!



Yeah, no kidding. Take Disney's Old Key West vacation club - it hasn't had a hard refurbishment since it was built in what, '91? If Marriott Vacation Club was managing it, that would have already been done.


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## Big Matt (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm curious as to why you think this would be bad.  Marriott is a very well run company and all of the Marriott's I've stayed in were as nice or nicer than the DVC units I've stayed in.  I think getting a company in to run the DVCs that can do a great job would be a big plus for the DVC owners.  



ml855 said:


> All I can say is if this really happens than lots of  DVC owners will not be happy.


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## billymach4 (Sep 16, 2009)

Whoa.... Wait a minute here.... I am starting to hear there are quality issues with some of the DVC resorts

I always heard and regarded DVC as one of the leading resorts here. I personally have never stayed at a DVC. But I must begin to question the attraction of the DVC's.... Other than the fact the on site WDW resorts. They are pricey, have ROFR, are RTU and now some are outwardly admitting that Marriott's are a better quality than DVC. 

I kind of like what I am hearing here...


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## dioxide45 (Sep 16, 2009)

mas said:


> Isn't DVC an RTU?  If so, how would that jive with MVCI's deeded units?



They are deeded points. So you are deeded a certain number of points. The deed will expire at a certain date, unlike the Marriott deeds.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 16, 2009)

billymach4 said:


> Whoa.... Wait a minute here.... I am starting to hear there are quality issues with some of the DVC resorts
> 
> I always heard and regarded DVC as one of the leading resorts here. I personally have never stayed at a DVC. But I must begin to question the attraction of the DVC's.... Other than the fact the on site WDW resorts. They are pricey, have ROFR, are RTU and now some are outwardly admitting that Marriott's are a better quality than DVC.
> 
> I kind of like what I am hearing here...



We've stayed at DVC Old Key West in a 2BR with points rented from an owner through the disboards, we've stayed in a Beach Club studio unit on a cash reservation through Disney, and we've "toured" units at Wilderness Lodge Villas and BoardWalk Villas while staying at those hotels.  (If you're there at the hotels and ask the concierge, they'll show you a villa if one is empty.)

Marriott definitely beats DVC for updating and cleanliness, IMO.  But if what you want is a Disney World vacation, nothing beats staying onsite and immersing yourself in the experience.  DVC will always have that advantage over any other Orlando property, and they know it, so they are free to do less-frequent updating and less-stringent cleaning while commanding higher buy-in and maintenance fee costs.  We won't buy there because it's just not Don's cup of tea, but I'll happily pay rental/rack rates for the total experience every few years.

An MVCI/DVC partnership of some sort would be great - I was genuinely sad when DVC didn't renew their contract with II, and Don is never going to want to buy DVC.  But I don't think the latest rumor from a bus driver or boat skipper means that it will happen, as much as I hope.


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## Big Matt (Sep 16, 2009)

I've stayed at both also, and for a great Disney experience you can't beat staying in DVC.  You are constantly surrounded by Disney and have access to the transportation system right outside your timeshare.  Most have wonderful activities and pools.  The unis are fairly small and the ones I've been in show a lot of wear and tear.

The Marriott's that I've stayed in have bigger units and better furniture.  The pools are generally better and there are more options for tennis, basketball, shuffleboard, etc.  The grounds are awesome in Orlando.  But.......no Mickey anywhere.

To me combining Marriott's corporate ability to manage the properties with Disney Magic is a true winner.  It will probably never happen, but I can still imagine.


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## rthib (Sep 16, 2009)

*Marriott Bought Disney Land*

Probably someone coming across the old info about Disney selling some of its planned Time Share Land to Marriott (NCV is one I recall)


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## cruisin (Sep 17, 2009)

We have stayed at Beach Club, Boardwalk, Old Key west, In our opinion Marriotts room is far superior, Last year we Had a week at Beachclub, exchanged for the imperial palms, used the first 2 nights, then moved to Beach Club, We actually left Beach club nights 2 and 4 of our beachclub stay, and spent the night at the dated imperial palms, way nicer beds, Huge jetted tub, and TV for the kids, they despise just having disney channels,Espn and the major networks.

That said, DVC is only about the location, but what a location, my wife now only wants Beach Club for disney, but I cant wait for the new Marriott by the Ritz, we are going to have a fight, but I will sooooo be willing to drive a half an hour to the parks and stay in a beautiful new Marriott  

My friend had a BLT room when we were there 3 weeks ago, the studios really are as bad as advertised, and there will be a lot of people very upset when they pay for their Theme park view and are on a lower floor and can just see the top of the castle!!!!


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## dmaxdmax (Sep 17, 2009)

mas said:


> Isn't DVC an RTU?  If so, how would that jive with MVCI's deeded units?



No, I won't do it, I won't.  i promised myself.....

"Jibe", not "jive".

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


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## Superchief (Sep 17, 2009)

It would be great if MVC owners could enjoy the Disney guest priveleges at the parks, especially early entry. Personally, I prefer Royal Palms (even though it is an older property) because of the World Center resort priveleges. We now only visit WDW once per trip due to the high cost and crowds. Walt Disney had envisioned an enjoyable family experience, but the Disney corporation only is interested in $$$$$$$$$$.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 17, 2009)

*Timeshare Shuck & Jive.*




dmaxdmax said:


> "Jibe", not "jive".
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help myself.


You are correct, of course, but just consider that in any discussion of timeshare-related matters the word that naturally leaps to the front of the mind is _jive._ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dmaxdmax (Sep 17, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> You are correct, of course, but just consider that in any discussion of timeshare-related matters the word that naturally leaps to the front of the mind is _jive._
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I thought that was usually in regard to salespeople


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 17, 2009)

*Not Just Them.*




dmaxdmax said:


> I thought that was usually in regard to salespeople


Absolutely, but don't overlook those shenanigans by I-I & SVN & WestGate, etc. (reported on TUG-BBS), that go way beyond the shuck & jive of the sales floor -- not to mention RCI's rent-out antics that caught them up in a class-action lawsuit. 

On balance, the used car biz appears somewhat more wholesome. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## pefs65 (Sep 17, 2009)

I know its just a rumor but as a DVC owner and as a pending eoy Marriott resale owner, I think a merge of DVC and Marriott would be fantastic since I think it would merge the two top TS systems for me.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 17, 2009)

*Timeshare Soap.*

When Marriott & DVC merge, will there be Mickey Mouse timeshare soap in all the Marriott timeshare bathrooms ? 

Or will there be Marriott timeshare soap in all the DVC units ? 





-- hotlinked --





-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Bill4728 (Sep 17, 2009)

You know that there is a completely different way the companies could be getting together.

Club Intrawest (CI) & Disney have a deal in which they share some rooms at their resorts with each other completely outside the major trading companies. It is like Disney gets 50 units/weeks at CI & CI gets the same number at Disney. So DVC owners can do direct exchanges into CI and CI can do direct exchanges into DVC.

Maybe Marriott & DVC are thinking about doing the same thing. 

IMHO  this would make a lot more sense to me than Marriott buying the DVC.


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## ecwinch (Sep 17, 2009)

I am with Bill. On one level an internal exchange network combining DVC and MVCI would be a pretty compelling brand, and would negate some of the more thorny issues involved in an merger.


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## ldanna (Sep 17, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> When Marriott & DVC merge, will there be Mickey Mouse timeshare soap in all the Marriott timeshare bathrooms ?
> 
> Or will there be Marriott timeshare soap in all the DVC units ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



As long as we have new toothbrushes (teethbrushes outside West Virginia), it will be OK.:hysterical: 

BTW, I really don't understand why DVC owners are really mad or dislike so much the idea of Marriott managing DVC resorts. I have never been to a DVC property, but as long as I can see here the testimonials, MVCI properties are better than DVC properties.

Posts here are just saying what I said before: DVC has a lot to gain with Marriott taking care of their properties. And DVC owners should hope that the bus driver is telling the truth, not just a rumor! Let's wait to see what the Captain has to say!


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## dioxide45 (Sep 17, 2009)

ldanna said:


> BTW, I really don't understand why DVC owners are really mad or dislike so much the idea of Marriott managing DVC resorts. I have never been to a DVC property, but as long as I can see here the testimonials, MVCI properties are better than DVC properties.



Many DVC members bought because it was Disney. To own a piece of the "magic" is what they paid the top dollar for. To end up owning _Bay Lake Towers by Marriott _just wouldn't be the same fore them.


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## tarabell (Sep 17, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> Many DVC members bought because it was Disney. To own a piece of the "magic" is what they paid the top dollar for. To end up owning _Bay Lake Towers by Marriott _just wouldn't be the same fore them.



I think this argument is a bit of a strawman.  I see it all of the time and usually in the context of how silly it is to pay extra to own DVC.  Having read many of your posts, I'm pretty certain that is not your intended meaning. I  do not believe that a lot of DVC owners bought only because it was Disney with blinders on.  I do believe they bought Disney for the following reasons:

1.)  They want to be on site.  This is the primary reason why I paid for DVC.  To me, being on site beats being off site in a nicer Marriott resort.  I have done it both ways at least 10 times.  I don't want to be off site.  To me, it is like going to Manhattan and staying out in Jersey.  Sure you can ride the train in and it only takes 30 minutes, but is it the same?

2.) Most clearly understand that Disney does not trade that well.  In fact, many never even bother to attempt to trade.  Some of the things that are a clear advantage to Marriott, mean nothing to them. 

3.)  They want to be on site

4.) They want ot be onsite

5.) They want to be on site  

6.)  They believe that there purchase will hold up better because Dsiney is involved.  This remains to be seen, but so far evidence points to a long period of yes, followed by the current time period where maybe not (I am speaking relative to other time share options).

To be dismissive as if they are getting taken by Disney when there are better alternatives out there, in my mind misses the point.  I don't believe you are doing that Dioxide, but "magic" in quotations could be interpreted that way.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 17, 2009)

tarabell said:


> I think this argument is a bit of a strawman.  I see it all of the time and usually in the context of how silly it is to pay extra to own DVC.  Having read many of your posts, I'm pretty certain that is not your intended meaning. I  do not believe that a lot of DVC owners bought only because it was Disney with blinders on.  I do believe they bought Disney for the following reasons:
> 
> 1.)  They want to be on site.  This is the primary reason why I paid for DVC.  To me, being on site beats being off site in a nicer Marriott resort.  I have done it both ways at least 10 times.  I don't want to be off site.  To me, it is like going to Manhattan and staying out in Jersey.  Sure you can ride the train in and it only takes 30 minutes, but is it the same? Even with Marriott they would have the onsite convenience, they may just consider it now not owning a piece of the magic.
> 
> ...



This is all likely true. People bought for many reason, most notibly onsite convenience. Though the only reason that many would be unhappy about Marriott buying out DVC would be due to the reason I mentioned. I don't see any other reason to not like that idea . Post #20 of the linked Disboards thread actually suggests exactly what I did.


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## ldanna (Sep 17, 2009)

tarabell said:


> I think this argument is a bit of a strawman.  I see it all of the time and usually in the context of how silly it is to pay extra to own DVC.  Having read many of your posts, I'm pretty certain that is not your intended meaning. I  do not believe that a lot of DVC owners bought only because it was Disney with blinders on.  I do believe they bought Disney for the following reasons:
> 
> 1.)  They want to be on site.  This is the primary reason why I paid for DVC.  To me, being on site beats being off site in a nicer Marriott resort.  I have done it both ways at least 10 times.  I don't want to be off site.  To me, it is like going to Manhattan and staying out in Jersey.  Sure you can ride the train in and it only takes 30 minutes, but is it the same?
> 
> ...



First of all, you can't beat onsite, that's true. 

Second, 1 out of 4 should be traded. You can't go only to Disney or you can go to Disney and sometimes to somewhere else. If the only place you can plan a trip every year is WDW, something is wrong.

Third, it looks like DVC standars are not that good OR can be improved a lot.

I don't believe Disney would sell DVC nor Pixar. BUT DVC could be a lot better with a partnership with Marriott managing their resorts, not only the ones on WDW, but Vero Beach and HHI, too.

With a partnership, Marriott could add better villas, better activities at the resorts, AND trade power. I still just don't understand why DVC owners don't like this idea. The question here is better managment, Marriott is not going to replace Mickey, maybe just the soap. , maybe the bus driver, too.


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## tarabell (Sep 17, 2009)

ldanna:

Good points.

I have no issue with Disney outsourcing the management of DVC to Marriott.

I would be ecstatic if Disney and Marriott entered into an agreement to make trades (maybe through Buena Vista) between DVC and MVCI almost seamless. In fact, if the best way to do this is to outsource management (not ownership) to Marriott, I'm all for it.  The only caveat I would have is that Marriott owners and DVC owners do not lose any of their existing perks regarding internal trading.

 I would have an issue with an outright sale to Marriott, but only because I think it would hurt DVC resale pricing, primarily because the Disney name would  not be attached to the product.  Right, wrong or indifferent, the Disney name does mean something to millions and millions of people.  The Marriott name means something as well, but I don't believe it is as powerful of a brand as Disney.


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## littlestar (Sep 17, 2009)

The reason we still own DVC points is because I enjoy the theming (the resorts are just plain fun to stay at) and the convenience of being on property. I like being able to walk to Downtown Disney or walk into the back of Epcot through the International Gateway when we stay at the Beach Club.

The reason we own Marriott too, is because I can rely on their consistent quality. I really like their Revive bedding, the Maze, the Marketplace. I know I can count on reliable quality with Marriott. 

Speaking of a Disney bus driver as a source of the rumor, have you guys noticed that Disney bus drivers wear purple pants and a yellow belt? I bet there's no other job in the world where you can get away with that color scheme.


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## dmaxdmax (Sep 18, 2009)

I think most people buy DVC because they get sucked in during or at the end of a great vacation.  They don't know anything about other TS systems and may not ever realize that's what DVC is.  They just know their trip was great and they want to do it every year.  It never occurs to most of them to do any research.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## cruisin (Sep 18, 2009)

Alot of dvc owners bought because it was cheaper than spending $5000 every year on the hotels, I have met so many people at Disneyland and World on their 1 week every year stay who spend thousands every year, for them, DVC is a no brainer.


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## Dean (Sep 19, 2009)

dmaxdmax said:


> I think most people buy DVC because they get sucked in during or at the end of a great vacation.  They don't know anything about other TS systems and may not ever realize that's what DVC is.  They just know their trip was great and they want to do it every year.  It never occurs to most of them to do any research.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with that.


I don't think that's true for most owners.  I'm sure they have their share of impulse buyers but compared to non DVC timeshares, I suspect the numbers are a lot less.  While it is my opinion that the majority of DVC buyers are not timeshare savvy, I believe most are Disney experienced.  You see very fee people who own DVC and are unhappy with their purchase and few that feel they were misled by the sales process.  Even when you do find those people that are unhappy, it's often over trivial things or because they simply didn't understand what info was actually available to them.


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## tarabell (Sep 19, 2009)

dmaxdmax said:


> I think most people buy DVC because they get sucked in during or at the end of a great vacation.  They don't know anything about other TS systems and may not ever realize that's what DVC is.  They just know their trip was great and they want to do it every year.  It never occurs to most of them to do any research.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with that.



See Dean and cruisins posts for what I think is a much more accurate reason that DVC members bought.  I'm not sure why the TUG world views DVC purchasers as "less" savvy buyers or even total timeshare rubes.  

1.)In general they feel they got exactly what they bought.  Can the majority of other timeshare buyers state this? There are threads in TUG on how Marriott, Starwood, Four Seasons, Westgate, Diamond, Wyndham, Worldmark are all screwing their owners over exchanges, MF's, Internal Points etc. The majority of DVC owners could care less.  They are getting exactly what they thought they were getting.

2.)  Most DVC purchasers can sell their interests for a higher % of what they paid than almost any other timeshare purchaser. 

So, they got what they paid for and can sell and recoup a larger portion of their investment.  How does this make them rubes?


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 19, 2009)

Dean said:


> I don't think that's true for most owners.  I'm sure they have their share of impulse buyers but compared to non DVC timeshares, I suspect the numbers are a lot less.  While it is my opinion that the majority of DVC buyers are not timeshare savvy, I believe most are Disney experienced.  You see very fee people who own DVC and are unhappy with their purchase and few that feel they were misled by the sales process.  Even when you do find those people that are unhappy, it's often over trivial things or because they simply didn't understand what info was actually available to them.



Totally agree, I think the impulse buyers are a lot less, you don't get $100 bucks to take the DVC tour. There's no need to unplug your phone at DVC, no calls from sales people.  We got the 4 ride max VIP fast passes. 

A person interested in DVC has to take the first step, make an appointment. 

They have the secret weapon, the DVC channel with Casey telling you all about the resorts!

I will say our guide was very upfront with the workings of DVC and at that time II.


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## Dean (Sep 19, 2009)

Twinkstarr said:


> Totally agree, I think the impulse buyers are a lot less, you don't get $100 bucks to take the DVC tour. There's no need to unplug your phone at DVC, no calls from sales people.  We got the 4 ride max VIP fast passes.
> 
> A person interested in DVC has to take the first step, make an appointment.
> 
> ...


Put another way, even the impulse buyers are happy as a rule and those that made a poor choice are not nearly as hurt as they are with most poor timeshare choices.  Don't get me wrong, I feel many DVC purchasers are not making the best choices, just that the downside isn't so bad compared to other timeshares.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 19, 2009)

tarabell said:


> See Dean and cruisins posts for what I think is a much more accurate reason that DVC members bought.  I'm not sure why the TUG world views DVC purchasers as "less" savvy buyers or even total timeshare rubes.



This still doesn't change my opinion that one big reason many people who bought DVC bought because it had the Disney name attached and they were owning a piece of Disney. Sure there are many benefits and other reasons for their purchases. There would be no other reason to explain why any of them would be upset about another company coming in to buy the resorts. There would likely be little to no change to how their current program works. Only the name on the sign would be a little different.

While it is true that Disney tends to hold its resale value longer than many other programs, it is still a guaranty that it will become absolutely worthless at a point in time that the deed expires. That isn't true for all timeshare programs. While Disney does artificially prop up prices there is still no protection of that price. They could no longer exercise ROFR tomorrow and you will see prices drop just as they have at Marriott.


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## tarabell (Sep 19, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> This still doesn't change my opinion that one big reason many people who bought DVC bought because it had the Disney name attached and they were owning a piece of Disney.
> 
> *We agree on this.  I'm just saying the program has worked the way they thought it would.  I think a case could be made that it worked out that way BECAUSE it had the Disney name attached to it.  As mentioned, other reputable timeshare companies have alienated their owners because the system doesn't work the way they thought it would. I equate it to buying a Honda.  It may not be the best, but you know it will do what it is supposed to do. The best thing is, you know it without having to do a bunch of research.*
> 
> ...


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## Dean (Sep 19, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> This still doesn't change my opinion that one big reason many people who bought DVC bought because it had the Disney name attached and they were owning a piece of Disney. Sure there are many benefits and other reasons for their purchases. There would be no other reason to explain why any of them would be upset about another company coming in to buy the resorts. There would likely be little to no change to how their current program works. Only the name on the sign would be a little different.


I'm sure some fit into that category but more would say they bought because they trusted Disney, not just to own a piece of Disney.  Many would also say they would not have bought a timeshare had it not been for Disney, even many who are fairly knowledgeable about timeshares.  While I'm sure some is blind faith, most is not.  It's no different than if you had season tickets for a major college football program and had the chance to buy your seat for 50 years with a much smaller yearly cost than you had before.  IMO this is a hard concept for many on TUG, myself included to a degree.  I think many on TUG look at timeshares and then chose which timeshare system and location.  DVC members as a rule approach it from the other side, they know where and which company, the only question is whether to join the system or not join the system and cont to pay cash.


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## ml855 (Sep 19, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> I'm curious as to why you think this would be bad.  Marriott is a very well run company and all of the Marriott's I've stayed in were as nice or nicer than the DVC units I've stayed in.  I think getting a company in to run the DVCs that can do a great job would be a big plus for the DVC owners.



I don't think it would be bad, I've read responses on the DisBoards and lots of DVC owners would not be happy.

I own both DVC and Marriott and love both, honestly I think Marriott is a better run timeshare then DVC.  I love my DVC for being close to the Disney parks and being right on property.  Other then wanting to be on Disney property I would probably pick Marriott over DVC any day.


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## Big Matt (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm still curious about the others on Disboards and their rationale.  You and I seem to be on the same page on this one.  My guess is that they probably don't know much about Marriott.



ml855 said:


> I don't think it would be bad, I've read responses on the DisBoards and lots of DVC owners would not be happy.
> 
> I own both DVC and Marriott and love both, honestly I think Marriott is a better run timeshare then DVC.  I love my DVC for being close to the Disney parks and being right on property.  Other then wanting to be on Disney property I would probably pick Marriott over DVC any day.


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## Dean (Sep 20, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> I'm still curious about the others on Disboards and their rationale.  You and I seem to be on the same page on this one.  My guess is that they probably don't know much about Marriott.


 Here's the Link .  Most responses are along the lines of:
I wouldn't like it, I bought Disney, not Marriot
I'd like it because of more choices.
It can't happen; many reasons are listed.
 I personally don't see any way it could happen and the two could be combined because of inherent legal requirements of each system.  Certainly one could take over the others entire operation and run each independently.  DVC already has a legal entity as a timeshare exchange company called Buena Vista Exchange Company.  Currently they only work with Club Cordial and Club Intrawest.  When they were with RCI early on, they worked with Hilton, VRI and Shell if I recall correctly.  I've said a number of times that DVC could do away with any other exchange company and hook up with the likes of Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott and Starwood and everyone would be better off except those on the outside looking in.  The one issue in doing this for Marriott has always been it didn't fit in well being a weeks system though the rumors for a system change might alter that landscape.  

I think the higher ups do know a lot about Marriott and timeshares in general though not necessarily the exchange components outside what they deal with.  Unfortunately that knowledge doesn't filter down to the rank and file at DVC.  Realize that a former DVC CEO went to RCI as CEO at one point.


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## Big Matt (Sep 20, 2009)

Dean,
I don't think you can combine ownership either.

My thoughts were more around Marriott (the hotel chain) managing the DVCs under the Disney Brand.  This makes a lot of sense to me.


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## Dean (Sep 20, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> Dean,
> I don't think you can combine ownership either.
> 
> My thoughts were more around Marriott (the hotel chain) managing the DVCs under the Disney Brand.  This makes a lot of sense to me.


I doubt it would happen but it is workable from both sides as a management arrangement.  More likely would be a spinoff of the off property resorts of HI, VB and HH.


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## davewasbaloo (Sep 20, 2009)

cruisin said:


> Alot of dvc owners bought because it was cheaper than spending $5000 every year on the hotels, I have met so many people at Disneyland and World on their 1 week every year stay who spend thousands every year, for them, DVC is a no brainer.



To be fair, that is pretty much why we bought in Paris, but we have also found the quality of the Marriott product to be higher than DVC sadly. I really want Disney to be the very best, but other than location and theming, sadly they no longer are not.


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## davewasbaloo (Sep 20, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> I'm still curious about the others on Disboards and their rationale.  You and I seem to be on the same page on this one.  My guess is that they probably don't know much about Marriott.



I am a DISer, and honestly, for so many, Disney can do no wrong. In fact I have many of my critiques erased over the years. They really like the Kool Aid over there I am afraid.


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## Superchief (Sep 20, 2009)

My speculation is that DVC may partner with MVC in the 'new' internal exchange program. This could provide added incentive to opt in.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 20, 2009)

davewasbaloo said:


> I am a DISer, and honestly, for so many, Disney can do no wrong. In fact I have many of my critiques erased over the years. They really like the Kool Aid over there I am afraid.



I tend to agree. I spend a fair amount of time on Disboards. I spend most of my time in the offsite and transportation sections. I have read my share of offisite vs on threads over the years as well as many threads critical of certain things about Disney and the parks. The pileup usually begins quickly on those.

To be fair, there is also many here that believe Marriott can also do no wrong.


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## Dean (Sep 20, 2009)

dioxide45 said:


> To be fair, there is also many here that believe Marriott can also do no wrong.


And a number with an axe to grind that believe neither can do right.  I like to see myself as somewhere in the middle being objective but realistic.


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## EducatedConsumer (Sep 20, 2009)

I write this entire subject off as rumor/ill founded speculation.

Marriott is too smart of an organization to entertain what is rumored in this economic climate. They've ridden out too many lows, and have battened down the hatch on this low. By Marriott's own public admission, they've suspended new product to market until 2011 at the earliest.

I highly doubt that Marriott is writing any checks in this economic climate.


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## GaryDouglas (Sep 20, 2009)

When all is said and done, a lot more is said than done...


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## davewasbaloo (Sep 21, 2009)

There may be something in the offing though, given that Marriott built MCVI on both the Newport Site and the Disneyland Paris Golf Course (which had Disney's involvement in the design, and it used to be Disney's cleaning company that took care of cleaning and maintenance, both of which have improved since Marriott cessated contracts).


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## EducatedConsumer (Sep 21, 2009)

davewasbaloo said:


> There may be something in the offing though, given that Marriott built MCVI on both the Newport Site and the Disneyland Paris Golf Course (which had Disney's involvement in the design, and it used to be Disney's cleaning company that took care of cleaning and maintenance, both of which have improved since Marriott cessated contracts).



Absolute redulousness.


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## davewasbaloo (Sep 22, 2009)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Absolute redulousness.



All I am saying is there may be some possibility of working together on something. Though like all things, I will only believe it when I see it.

Personally I would really love to see something like this happen, especially as there are very few decent trades on Interval outside of Marriott anymore.


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## MikeM132 (Sep 28, 2009)

tarabell said:


> I3.)  They want to be on site
> 
> 4.) They want ot be onsite
> 
> .



I totally agree. We have looked at DVC, and only 2 things swayed us to Marriott:
1. Primary advantage of DVC is being onsite. After much thought and some family argument, we agreed it was not worth the premium price to be on property at WDW. We do not go to the parks every day we are in Orlando.
2. RTU versus deed. Some of the DVC properties at WDW are pretty far into the RTU already. 
Having Marriott as a "silent" manager of these resorts might be a good idea. They do a great job. However, DVC owners might want to brace for the inevitable upgrades and consequent expenses. Marriott does like to buy furniture at expensive prices.


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## jamstew (Sep 28, 2009)

dmaxdmax said:


> I think most people buy DVC because they get sucked in during or at the end of a great vacation.  They don't know anything about other TS systems and may not ever realize that's what DVC is.  They just know their trip was great and they want to do it every year.  It never occurs to most of them to do any research.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with that.



I totally disagree. The guest actually has to make the effort to find out about DVC. There's a small desk or podium in each resort and in the parks, but there's no one there saying, "Hey, do you want to learn about DVC" and trying to suck you in. It's on the television, but who actually watches that? I stayed on-site several times before I had any idea that DVC even existed. I bought because I wanted to stay in the deluxe properties, and I figured out that I would break even in 5 family trips. We love Disney, and I go 2-3 times a year. I love not having to drive at all, even from the airport.


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## JimC (Sep 28, 2009)

billymach4 said:


> Whoa.... Wait a minute here.... I am starting to hear there are quality issues with some of the DVC resorts
> 
> I always heard and regarded DVC as one of the leading resorts here. I personally have never stayed at a DVC. But I must begin to question the attraction of the DVC's.... Other than the fact the on site WDW resorts. They are pricey, have ROFR, are RTU and now some are outwardly admitting that Marriott's are a better quality than DVC.
> 
> I kind of like what I am hearing here...



MVCI has ROFR at many of its resorts.  Both are pricey, although DVC is higher to buy and own when looking at comparable resorts.  But some of that difference is mitigated by the MVCI fees that DVC does not have.  DVCs primary selling point for us is better on-site accommodations then a deluxe at a cost more in-line with a moderate resort.  DVC is a limited term deed but that can work either way depending on your perspective about long term ownership.  

I own both and find them similar in product and service.  DVC is better at themes, subtle architectural details and on-site at WDW & DL.  MVCI is better for a broader location selection.  I find the points system more flexible then weeks and prefer the internal trade system DVC has.  I know others find MVCI more flexible and prefer weeks.  Not sure there is a single right answer to any of this.

Disney has a long history of entering into relationships with others to share risk and funding for its investments or to outsource certain aspects of its operations.  If the two companies did anything I think it would most likely be along those lines.


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## dmaxdmax (Oct 9, 2009)

jamstew said:


> I totally disagree. The guest actually has to make the effort to find out about DVC. There's a small desk or podium in each resort and in the parks, but there's no one there saying, "Hey, do you want to learn about DVC" and trying to suck you in. It's on the television, but who actually watches that? I stayed on-site several times before I had any idea that DVC even existed. I bought because I wanted to stay in the deluxe properties, and I figured out that I would break even in 5 family trips. We love Disney, and I go 2-3 times a year. I love not having to drive at all, even from the airport.



I guess I wrote my post poorly since I think I've been misunderstood.  I shouldn't have said "sucked in" because it suggests impulse buyers are suckers who were unfairly taken advantage of.  I also don't mean to suggest DVC owners are rubes.  I just think that a great vacation is the best marketing tool that any resort could have and it sways many people far more than any degree of research and analysis ever could.

Dean said it well: "I think many on TUG look at timeshares and then chose which timeshare system and location. DVC members as a rule approach it from the other side, they know where and which company, the only question is whether to join the system...."

There's a reason there are dozens of DVC kiosks.  They work on people who are having the time of their lives and wish to do it every year.  I suspect many more units are sold during good weather than bad.  People buy enough points to stay where and when they want and as such it is a great decision.  That it isn't the optimal decision as viewed through the lens of the greater TS community isn't important.

My wife manages a multi-billion dollar real estate portfolio and I'm an MBA/CPA and we're neither rubes nor suckers.  Yet after our second amazing vacation we found ourselves sitting at a kiosk seriously debating if we should buy 200 points or if we needed 250.  We knew *nothing* about timeshares and might have written a check then and there except our 8 year-olds were exhausted so we took materials with us.  Only when we arrived home did I decide to find out if points had any residual value and a short amount of time led me to this site, redweek, mouseowners etc.  I'm really glad that we didn't drop $20m on a whim but if we had we'd probably be pretty happy.

From 'Barnum':  "There's a sucker born every minute and the biggest one, excluding none, is me!"


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## Dean (Oct 9, 2009)

dmaxdmax said:


> I guess I wrote my post poorly since I think I've been misunderstood.  I shouldn't have said "sucked in" because it suggests impulse buyers are suckers who were unfairly taken advantage of.  I also don't mean to suggest DVC owners are rubes.  I just think that a great vacation is the best marketing tool that any resort could have and it sways many people far more than any degree of research and analysis ever could.
> 
> Dean said it well: "I think many on TUG look at timeshares and then chose which timeshare system and location. DVC members as a rule approach it from the other side, they know where and which company, the only question is whether to join the system...."
> 
> ...


In general I'd agree with your representation with a couple of small exceptions.  First, while DVC has many kiosks, they wait for the patron to come to them and only then do they discuss the options and set up a tour if applicable.  As for the judgement of the greater timeshare community, they're often the ones that don't have a clue and make certain assumptions that often aren't true.  Lastly, and as I tried to point out, DVC generally isn't an impulse decision based on a single Disney trip but rather often multiple trips.  Even when it is, those members are still usually very happy with their purchase going forward.  This is likely due to several issues including that DVC rarely pushes the person to buy and even when they do, it's about as kids glove as you can get.  They deliver on what the product sold and they do a very good job overall, at or near the top of the industry taken as a system or individual resort.  The one area they could improve is on the representation of the ancillary items including exchange options.

The bottom line is that for the many families, DVC is still the right purchase even at the higher prices and limited non DVC exchange values.  But there certainly are those that buy that would be better off buying something else or not buying and there are those that don't buy that really should for what ever reason.  It's interesting that even many who really shouldn't have bought can't see it even if you point it out so there certainly is an element of koolaid.  Many members do place a value beyond the black and white simply by belonging to a club which they see as exclusive.  Me, I'm a nuts and bolts type of guy and even though I do get an emotional satisfaction when I stay at a Disney resort, I want that feeling to be in addition to my other savings and benefits, in effect, a freebie.

BTW, we just walked in after a week stay at AKV with two 1 BR units that we got through RCI.


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## JimC (Oct 9, 2009)

We bought Disney for Disney and Marriott for other trips.  Both are well run and both offer value for our dollar.  I am a huge fan of Walt Disney (the man) and very much enjoy the modern Disney offerings.  They are not perfect, but they still consistently deliver better then most.  Then again I say the same about Marriott (both the man - JW, and the modern corporation).

DVC is a less expensive and more enjoyable on-site experience for us.  Our track record is we stay at 1 and 2 bedroom accommodation for about the price of annual pass discounted moderate and deluxe resorts; without having to chase the discounts.

Marriott is a familiar offering for me because they are my preferred lodging for business travel.  We enjoy our one bedroom accommodations over a hotel, even a luxury hotel.  MVCI offers higher value to us when we are not at Disney which is why we don't trade our DVC points.


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