# What is the best strategy for buying HGVC?



## korndoc (Apr 7, 2007)

Hello. Everyone at TUG has been so helpful with my questions and I am now starting to feel good about my direction.  With the sense of "Points are Points", and knowing that I do not plan on returning to the same t/s year after year, but will trade within HGVC or trade for HH points so I can travel to Category 6 Hilton Hotels, I have the following questions:

1.  I understand that using HH points for Hilton hotels has its limitations in that only a certain number of rooms are set aside fot HH point users.  Is it as bad as trying to use my frequent flyer miles on US Air (_very frustrating_) or as bad as the frustrations many Marriott owners have trying to trade into other Marriott resorts? If so then I will probably have to re-think my plan to purchase HGVC

2.  What do you think of this idea:  The cheapest Las Vegas HGVC I have found is going for $14,000 (Las Vegas Strip) for 7000 points with MF=$600. This is $2/point to purchase and 9cents per point for MF.   
     But, for a little more, $16,700, I can buy a 1 BR platinum (4800 points) with $565 MF plus a 2 BR Gold (5000 points) with $652 MF for a total of 9800 points and $1217 MF. This comes out to $1.67 per point and 12.2 cents MF per point.
     The advantage is nearly 10,000 points at very little extra upfront cost. That would = two 4 day Category 6 Hilton Hotel trips.  Or if I just want to trade in RCI, I have 2 timeshares rather than just one.   Is the cost of the extra MF worth it?  Does this make sense or should I just buy the single 7000 point t/s?

3. If this does make sense, then what about buying the 1 BR Platinum for $8700 - $565 MF (4800 points) [rather than the 2 BR Gold for $8000 but with $652 MF], + a Florida HGVC affiliate for another 5000 points in order to get into the II system.  This would also give me 9800 points for HGVC trading and Hotel stays but would also open so many more t/s trading possibilites.  Of course I don't know how these Florida properties really trade.  Can I expect to get into the glitzy resorts like the Marriott. We travel without kids so traveling in the most prime time is not an issue.  But here the MF costs are much higher.  For example there is a 2 BR Gold Hurricane House (a 5 Star II resort with 5000 HGVC points) available for only $6500 but the MF is a whopping $1100.  I found a non-5 Star Shell Island for $10,000 with a more reasonable MF at $700 but I won't buy there.  Not too many other Florida affiliates available right now.

(added to post: I just found a better Florida example, an II-5 Star Florida resort also on HGVC with 5000 points costing $6500 with a $916 MF. This is Tortuga Beach Resort.  In this case, the cost of $8700 for the Las Vegas resort + $6500 Tortuga = $15,500. MF: $565 for Las Vegas + $916=$1481 for a total 9800 points at a cost of $1.55 per point, and a MF at 15 cents per point.)

Thank you for your ideas and I apologize for the long post.

Jeff


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## Steve (Apr 7, 2007)

Hi Jeff,

I'd like to address your question # 1.  In my experience, trying to book HHonors reservations at popular Hilton hotels is worse than trading one Marriott timeshare for another.  Hilton only allows a very limited number of rooms to be booked for HHonors points.  

For example, I am staying for three nights at the Homewood Suites in Jackson Hole this summer.  Despite the fact that I made my reservations months in advance, there was only one weekend all summer that was available using HHonors points.  So, that's the weekend I'm going...but it is not the weekend I wanted.  It's not even my 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.  I could have paid cash instead...as there were rooms available at other times using cash...but I wanted to use my points.  

It sounds like you have read about or talked with some Marriott owners who have had difficulty making exchanges.  Of course, I know there are some people who have had problems, but I have found Marriott to Marriott exchanges through II to be quite easy to obtain as long as I plan in advance.  The vast majority of Marriott owners that I have spoken with have also had very good success with their exchanges.  I personally think that you'll have better luck with Marriott timeshare exchanges than you will with HHonors reward nights...but that's just my opinion.

To comment on Question # 3...the Hurricane House week has an accepted offer on it...so that week is no longer an option.  The Shell Island week is, in my opinion, WAY overpriced.  That week shouldn't be listed for more than $6000...4th of July or not.  Shell Island has a lower internal quality rating with II than most of the other HGVC resorts on Sanibel and it is not Five Star.  That price is out of line.  You can buy a 5000 point week at one of the HGVC resorts on Marco Island for $5000 or less.  That's a much better value.

Steve


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## korndoc (Apr 7, 2007)

Steve said:


> Hi Jeff,      I'd like to address your question # 1.  In my experience, trying to book HHonors reservations at popular Hilton hotels is worse than trading one Marriott timeshare for another.  Hilton only allows a very limited number of rooms to be booked for HHonors points...
> To comment on Question # 3...the Hurricane House week has an accepted offer on it...so that week is no longer an option.  The Shell Island week is, in my opinion, WAY overpriced...
> Steve



#1. Uh oh!!

#3. Congratulations on your sale, Steve, hope it goes through.
      As to the Shell Island, I was aware it was not an II 5 Star, but didn't have another example when I wrote this letter. Since then I have come across a better Florida example (I added this information to the letter above after you replied, Steve. As I typed above: this is an II-5 Star Florida resort also on HGVC with 5000 points costing $6500 with a $916 MF. This is Tortuga Beach Resort (don't know if this one has an elevator).  In this case, the cost of $8700 for the Las Vegas resort + $6500 Tortuga = $15,500. MF: $565 for Las Vegas + $916=$1481 for a total 9800 points at a cost of $1.55 per point, and a MF at 15cents per point.)

Jeff


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## HGVC Lover (Apr 8, 2007)

_In my experience, trying to book HHonors reservations at popular Hilton hotels is worse than trading one Marriott timeshare for another._

This has not been our expereince.  We own three HGVC's totaling 21,000 points and have always been able to get hotel award stays all over the world at the time we want them and where we want them.  We are presently in Times Square at the Doubletree Suites Hotel.  Because you receive HHonor Silver status when you buy an HGVC you have access to VIP awards whcih other HHonor members may not.  Also, if you have AMEX you are able to use some special HHonor awards through them too.   :whoopie:


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## AzMin (Apr 8, 2007)

korndoc said:


> 1.  I understand that using HH points for Hilton hotels has its limitations in that only a certain number of rooms are set aside fot HH point users.  Is it as bad as trying to use my frequent flyer miles on US Air (_very frustrating_) or as bad as the frustrations many Marriott owners have trying to trade into other Marriott resorts? If so then I will probably have to re-think my plan to purchase HGVC



We've converted some of our HGVC pts to Honors and have never had a problem booking rooms at any Cat 4, 5 or 6 hotels when we wanted to. We do a lot of short trips (3 days or less) in hotels. Longer than that, I prefer a timeshare. We also own Marriott and the couple of times we've exchanged our week within the Marriott system, we got what we wanted when we wanted. Between the two, frankly Marriott is my preferred club and we'll likely do more of our vacations at their resorts. 

That being said, my husband and I decided recently that we won't be purchasing any more HGVC pts and will likely sell what we have because of the lack of choices we're given. I've already reached my limit of the number of times I want to vacation in Orlando, Hawaii and Vegas. :whoopie:


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## Bill4728 (Apr 8, 2007)

Jeff,

Any of the things you've said make great sense but at this point it just a personal choice.  I'm sorry, but IMHO,  we taken you as far as we can. It's up to you now to make the difficult choices on what you'll be buying. 

You'd done great!! No matter what choice you make, if it doesn't work for you, you'll be able to sell for at least what you bought it for.   

Good Luck


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## dvc_john (Apr 8, 2007)

While I don't turn by HGVC points into Hhonors points, I have made a number of Hhonors reservations, usually using the 175,000 point 6-day VIP award. 
So far I've never had a problem getting what I want when I want, although I do tend to travel in non-peak times.

6 day HHonors stays in the last year or two inlcude London (lowest cash rate I could find was over $400/night!) and Hilton Waikoloa Village (two separate times). Also booked several 1-night stays in Chicago (magnificent mile locations), ususally with only a week or so advance booking.

Have also traded our Marriott without problem. Several times for what I would consider an up-trade. Never for what I would consider a down-trade.


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## korndoc (Apr 8, 2007)

dvc_john said:


> So far I've never had a problem getting what I want when I want, although I do tend to travel in non-peak times.
> 
> 6 day HHonors stays in the last year or two inlcude London (lowest cash rate I could find was over $400/night!) and Hilton Waikoloa Village (two separate times).



John,  How far in advance do you reserve London and Waikoloa Village?

Jeff


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## alwysonvac (Apr 8, 2007)

FYI... All Hilton HHonors members can login and easily see hotel award availability for several months in advance using the flexible travel date option.
Just remember to select the one day award to see availability for each month.

This will give you an idea of hotel award availability for the places you want to visit. We've never had a problem finding hotel rewards for Europe but we're also very flexible with our travel dates.


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## nonutrix (Apr 8, 2007)

*30 days out for London on Honor points looks good*

Jeff,

I just now looked at availability with honors points for London, UK from May 4-10, 2007.  I found availability in 20 hotels in the London area by looking at "all Hilton family" hotels.  The London Conrad, an all-suite hotel, was on the list.

I have never had trouble finding availability using honors points, but I have to admit that until you asked the question and I checked, I had never looked at late notice.

I hope this answers your question.

nonutrix


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## korndoc (Apr 9, 2007)

alwysonvac said:


> FYI... All Hilton HHonors members can login and easily see hotel award availability for several months in advance using the flexible travel date option.
> Just remember to select the one day award to see availability for each month.



Thank you so much for the reply.  I tried to do this as I am an HHonors member. But I got a message next to each of the hotels listed "Rewards not available".  Does this mean that the all the hotels litsted were not available, the would be available if I had enough points?  I am new and only have 10,000 points so I maly have been rejected for this reason.

Also, I thought there were 4 days HHonors stays for 120,000 points, in addition to the 6 day VIP trips for 175,000 points.  I did not see this being offered. 

Jeff


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## alwysonvac (Apr 9, 2007)

korndoc said:


> Thank you so much for the reply.  I tried to do this as I am an HHonors member. But I got a message next to each of the hotels listed "Rewards not available".  Does this mean that the all the hotels litsted were not available, the would be available if I had enough points?  I am new and only have 10,000 points so I maly have been rejected for this reason.



Where you able to see the London, UK from May 4-10, 2007 that nonutrix saw above? 

Normally "Rewards not available" means that the hotels listed are not available for a hotel award. You normally don't need to have the points in your account to see availability. If you're searching for 2008 availability, it may not be available in the system yet. Also check 2007 dates for a reference. 



> Also, I thought there were 4 days HHonors stays for 120,000 points, in addition to the 6 day VIP trips for 175,000 points.  I did not see this being offered.



VIP awards can't be booked online. As long as you see the standard award availablility you can call to get the VIP award applied for your stay. 
The 4 day stay for 120,000 is a Hilton AMEX benefit (not a normal HHonors reward). I haven't used the AMEX benefit. I'm assuming it works the same way. If you see the standard award availability then call the Hilton AMEX folks to apply the award to your stay.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 9, 2007)

Ooops meant to say 
Are you able to see the London, UK from May 4-10, 2007 that nonutrix saw above?


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## Bxian (Apr 9, 2007)

If you get the Hilton AMEX and charge at least $20,000 per year on it, you will be given Hilton Honors Gold  status and will have no blackouts for award stays other than for "extradinary demand" times such as Christmas or the Super Bowl.   We've had such luck with this (6 free nights in Paris, as well as inLos Cabos and the Big Island of Hawaii in the last 2 years) that I almost did not buy a timeshare.


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## dvc_john (Apr 9, 2007)

korndoc said:


> John,  How far in advance do you reserve London and Waikoloa Village?
> 
> Jeff



London: about 4 1/2 months in advance.

Waikoloa: about 10 months in advance (since I also used HGVC for Waikiki, and airline miles for flights).


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## korndoc (Apr 10, 2007)

alwysonvac said:


> Are you able to see the London, UK from May 4-10, 2007 that nonutrix saw above?



Yes, thank you for the tip on how to check for availability.  I found 13 available. Not all were category 6, but the London Conrad was available.

I am excited to learn that the 4 day/120,000 point award is available because my wife and I like to travel around and explore in areas such as Europe, so 4 day stays work better that the 6 day VIP stays.  On the other hand, if we were to go to a resort, such a Cabo or Hawaii, we do generally stay a full week.  the 4day/120,000 gives us a lot of flexibility.

Jeff


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## korndoc (Apr 10, 2007)

Bxian said:


> If you get the Hilton AMEX and charge at least $20,000 per year on it, you will be given Hilton Honors Gold  status and will have no blackouts for award stays other than for "extradinary demand" times such as Christmas or the Super Bowl.   We've had such luck with this (6 free nights in Paris, as well as inLos Cabos and the Big Island of Hawaii in the last 2 years) that I almost did not buy a timeshare.



From the answers above from dvc John and Alwysonvac, it sounds like Gold Status isn't really necessary.  Does anyone else find being a Gold member to be helpful?  I have been doing my credit card spending with Sarwood Amex for the frequent flyer program.  $20,000 spent on that card = 25,000 frequent  flyer miles on 30 different airlines.

Bxian,
Thanks for the answer.  Yet you did at the Charter Club on San Marcos.  Why that one?  Happy with it?  I was thinking of Eagles' Nest on Marco Island.

Jeff


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## alwysonvac (Apr 10, 2007)

> it sounds like Gold Status isn't really necessary.



Silver gets you a standard hotel room. Gold may get you upgraded accommodations if it's available at check-in. (see this link for more details  http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/gold.do).

The Executive Level lounge in category 6 hotels (especially in Europe) are often very nice.

No blackout dates also gives you additional flexibility when trying to coordinate a standard airline award with a Hilton hotel award.

We're using our Hilton AMEX card this year to get Gold since we're planning to use our HGVC points for hotel stays next year.


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## Bxian (Apr 10, 2007)

We picked the Charter Club because all units face the Gulf-we also got a good price on a float week.


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## ohioelk (Apr 11, 2007)

Bxian, have you been able to get the floating reservation dates you want each year at Charter Club?  How painful is the reservation process?


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## Bxian (Apr 11, 2007)

My experience is limited because we just bought.  Our seller had reserved July 4th week for both 2007 and 2008.  For 2007, we turned the week in for points to use elsewhere.  For 2008, I was able to switch the July 4th week to the first full week in January.  I happen to know another Charter Club member, and he has indicated to me that he has always gotten his first or second choice week.  I have heard anecdotally that the only float week that is really tough is the Platinum week in December-apparently, they hold a lottery to give those units out.  Keep in mind that float owners only have the home resort booking advantage for certain weeks (many Gold and Silver and 1 or 2 Plat weeks).  You should check to make sure that those weeks meet your needs.
If you have access to the TUG reviews, you should read them before making a decision.  We bought in part because the reviews on TUG and Tripadvisor were positive.  In addition, we had a chance to look at the resort when we were on Marco Island last year.  While the outside is nondescript, they had done a really nice job redoing the units and the landscaping the the time we visited.


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## korndoc (Apr 11, 2007)

Eagle's Nest on Marco Island is with both HGVC (RCI) and with II, making it a more flexible choice for us than the Charter Club of Marco Island which, I believe, is only with RCI.

Anyone have any experience with Eagle's nest?  Is it a good trader with II?

Jeff


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## linsj (Apr 13, 2007)

#1 I've never had a problem getting HH award rooms. But converting timeshare points to Honors points is a bad deal. For example, I can get 3+ weeks in a studio for my 5000 timeshare points, including Hawaii off-season. If I convert those points to Honors, I only get 115,000, not enough for a VIP 6-night award at a 4-5* hotel.


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## korndoc (Apr 14, 2007)

linsj said:


> #1 I've never had a problem getting HH award rooms. But converting timeshare points to Honors points is a bad deal. For example, I can get 3+ weeks in a studio for my 5000 timeshare points, including Hawaii off-season. If I convert those points to Honors, I only get 115,000, not enough for a VIP 6-night award at a 4-5* hotel.



But _almost_ enough for 4 nights at a category 6 hotel.  True, 3 weeks in a studio v.s. 4 days in a hotel room, even a category 6 hotel, is huge.  But if I want to go to NY for just a few days, or go to Europe and move around while exploring, having the ability to stay at a wonderful hotel room gives a lot of flexibility. At $400-500 per night, that would = $1600-2000 value. That doesn't seem like such a bad deal.  And, unlike Marriott, this trade can be done annually so an 6 day VIP award (or 2  4day awards) can be enjoyed every other year, rather than waiting 4 years with Marriott.

Jeff


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## na2006 (May 3, 2007)

korndoc said:


> Eagle's Nest on Marco Island is with both HGVC (RCI) and with II, making it a more flexible choice for us than the Charter Club of Marco Island which, I believe, is only with RCI.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Eagle's nest?  Is it a good trader with II?
> 
> Jeff



I am lalso looking for HGVC trading on both RCI/II. I found these resorts will. These are serche results from TUG Resort ratings - 

Eagle's Nest Beach Resort
North America, USA, FL, Marco Island 
0731 EGL 8.42 
Casa Ybel Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
0229 CYB 8.14 
Hurricane House
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3041 HHS 8.43 
Sanibel Cottages
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3042 SBO 8.58
Shell Island Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
2197 SIB 8.18 
Tortuga Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3022 TBC 9.13 

NA


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## na2006 (May 3, 2007)

korndoc said:


> Eagle's Nest on Marco Island is with both HGVC (RCI) and with II, making it a more flexible choice for us than the Charter Club of Marco Island which, I believe, is only with RCI.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Eagle's nest?  Is it a good trader with II?
> 
> Jeff



I am looking for HGVC witch trades on both RCI/II. I found these resorts will. These are serche results from TUG Resort ratings - 

Eagle's Nest Beach Resort
North America, USA, FL, Marco Island 
0731 EGL 8.42 
Casa Ybel Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
0229 CYB 8.14 
Hurricane House
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3041 HHS 8.43 
Sanibel Cottages
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3042 SBO 8.58
Shell Island Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
2197 SIB 8.18 
Tortuga Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3022 TBC 9.13 

NA


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## korndoc (May 5, 2007)

na2006 said:


> HGVC affiliates that trade on II and RCI:
> Eagle's Nest Beach Resort
> North America, USA, FL, Marco Island
> 0731 EGL 8.42
> ...



Anyone know the MF for these resorts and how well they trade in II?

Jeff


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## na2006 (May 6, 2007)

I read they trade well on II being on Marco Island. Any one who has it like Steve can say better. 
Here are the MF -

(RCI/II) HGVC affiliated
Eagle's Nest Beach Resort
North America, USA, FL, Marco Island 
0731 EGL 8.42 (42) $816 /$685
Casa Ybel Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island                       
0229 CYB 8.14 (14) MF ??
Hurricane House
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island  
3041 HHS 8.43 (7) mtnc: $1100
Sanibel Cottages 
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
3042 SBO 8.58 (6)  MF ??
Shell Island Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island
2197 SIB 8.18 (22) mtnc: $710.00/$626
Tortuga Beach Club Resort
North America, USA, FL, Sanibel Island 
3022 TBC 9.13 (20) mtnc: $916

NA


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## korndoc (May 7, 2007)

Thanks NA.  

Looks like Eagle's Nest is the bargain, as long as it trades as well as the others.  And an 8.42 isn't bad at all, although Steve often disagrees with the TUG ratings.

Tell me, why the 2 different MFs?  You listed $816 and $685.

Jeff


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