# Seeking Westin owner's advice



## huestous (Mar 6, 2006)

I've never purchased from a developer, having always looked upon it as a foolish expenditure of the unenlightened... and now visions of the Westin Princeville are dancing in my head.  The timeshare devil on my shoulder has my undivided attention - so much so that it squelches my wife's invoking the Lysistrada solution should I even consider another timeshare week.

To the Westin owners in general:  Are you happy with the system?  Does owning offer you a significant advantage over renting?  Does the Marriott grass look greener?

To the Westin owners who purchased from the developer: Do you suffer twinges of having been had, or was it money well-spent?  

I'm half in shock realizing that if the saleperson calls today, I'll likely buy sight unseen, and this is totally unlike me.  Where has the rational side gone?


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2006)

I am happy with our WKORV purchase from the developer, but we paid it off right away.  If I was making payments, I wouldn't be happy.  One thing to note is that exchanging within the Starwood system is not always as easy as the TS saleman would have you believe, so if you want Princeville - buy Princeville.  But, if you are open to other islands, you could probably save $10K buying resale at the current Maui property - even more if you buy on the mainland.

Our week on Maui rents for over $5K from Starwood and my MF is about $1,400.  But, you can rent for less from individuals - but probably not $1,400.

Don't buy today - the same deal will be there next week and next month and they will probably even offer you MORE incentives if you tell them you're not ready yet.  If you are patient, you can eventually pick up a resale at the WPORV (Princeville) in the future.


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## skim118 (Mar 6, 2006)

We are very happy with our Westin Maui purchase in Feb 2002 and we do not regret it given the great incentives we received then(just after 9/11).

Do you love going to Princeville year after year ? Because of our kids we are limited to going to Maui during 2 specific weeks in summer and we use it almost every year(we rented it out for 2006).

If you are flexible I would much rather buy a resale Westin Kierland and take my chances on an exchange.

Sara


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## rocky (Mar 6, 2006)

I also bought from the developer at Maui.  It doesn't bother me that I did.  I don't sit up at night bemoaning the price I could paid for a resale.  I wanted the unit, I did my research on TUG, I wanted the ability to convert my unit to Starpoints because I travel overseas frequently, and I knew from being a business traveler that they were very valuable to me and my style of travel.

(Because Maui is fine, but sometimes you need a week without the kids at the St. Regis in NY or at the Excelsior in Florence..... and that is how I use my Starpoints)

I definitely don't sit up at night thinking, boy, I wish I owned at Marriott.  That thought has never crossed my mind.  The Starwood product, hotel and SVO, and the quality and the loyalty programs have for me.....  been a very happy and superior experience and I am not as impressed with other programs.  And I spent YEARS living and working on the road.

I may join you in the line to buy at Princeville.....  I'll be there in late June.


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2006)

Hey Rocky - Use me as your referral and I'll split the Starpoints with you!


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## stevens397 (Mar 6, 2006)

The regulars know my story - I'm a very happy developer purchaser at Kierland.  As much as we loved Kierland, we haven't been back yet because we've traded our first two years for St. John and Harborside.  I KNOW it won't always be this easy!

More to the points, there is no comparison between Marriott points and Starwood points.  It takes many, many fewer points to earn a hotel stay with Starwood.  In addition, it is almost impossible to be shut out.  Marriott rooms are capacity controlled - once the regular rewards are gone, you can snag the room for 50% (I think) more.

My example from last summer says it all.  Five nights at the Princeville Hotel on points for 48,000 Starwood points.  Five nights at the Ritz in Maui cost me 150,000 Marriot points!  I could have stayed 15 nights at Princeville for that!  Now I got a large chunk of points when I bought Kierland, but most of my points come from the Starwood credit card.  As far as I'm concerned, every dollar I charge on my Starwood AMEX gets me three times as many vacations as the ones I used to earn on the Marriott Visa.

In addition, many of the two bedroom Starwood units break into two one-bedroom suites.  One side is larger but they both have living rooms.  That is a big plus for me when I eventually split the unit.

The only downside is that Marriott has many more locations.  Next summer I'll try to trade for Marbella.  But I much prefer the Starwood internal trading to dealing with Interval International.

And as I said in a posting last week, whatever we preach here, most of us bought our first timeshare from the developer!  And if you want Kauai, it will be a very long time before reasonable resales are available.  If you want it, go for it.

The bigger cost will be the legal fees for the divorce!


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## califgal (Mar 6, 2006)

*Happy with Maui purchase*

We are very happy with our Maui purchase, and we only purchased the everyother year plan.  There are not that many resorts to trade with and we haven't been abble to get into Harborside at Atlantis in the Bahamas, and have school age children.  So I would say be happy with the location you are purchasing.  Maui is great for us.  We have coverted some of timeshare into starpoints and enjoy using the hotel system as well.  You may want to consider purchasing another Starwood location on the secondary market and you will save some money.  My friend owns with Marroitt and in comparing notes, Starwood sounds much better.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 6, 2006)

We are happy with our purchase.  I like the quality of the resort, the American Express rewards program & the beach location.  I like the idea of the internal trading program but I haven't used it yet so I don't know how easy it is.  Also, I love Hawaii in general.  I feel safe taking my kids there year after year.  

However, we do also own Marriotts as well.  For trade purposes, I like Marriott a whole lot better.  I would feel bad trying to trade my Westin outside of the internal trading program.  The units are top notch at Maui and there are probably very few comparable trades.  I like the variety Marriott offers in where you can trade to many different locations.  

Anyways, I think it is a personal decision.  Have you stayed in the Princeville area yet?  I'll definitely want to trade there one day too.


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## TheUnitrep (Mar 6, 2006)

huestous said:
			
		

> To the Westin owners in general:  Are you happy with the system?  Does owning offer you a significant advantage over renting?  Does the Marriott grass look greener?



We used to own a unit at Marriott's Maui Ocean club and sold that to purchase at a Starwood property.

Aside from there being less resorts in the SVN, the system is much more flexible. 

For example:

1.  Internal trading instead of having to use an outside exchange company.
2.  One week in a two bedroom unit with SVN can be turned into almost three weeks (smaller unit/off season) for no extra charge. (With Marriott a week is a week, unless a lock off is involved).
3.  No charge for trades within SVN (Marriott charges $79).
4.  No charge for locking off your unit (Marriott charges $99?).
5.  No 13-month reservation clause (Very contentious with Marriott owners). 
6.  The Heavenly Bed.
7.  The Heavenly Shower.

Reference owning vs. renting:

Owning simply assures your ability to get back to your home resort (at the time you want -- in most cases).  In the long (very long) run, you'll save money by owning vs. renting.  

But as others have said, be sure and buy where you like to vacation.  Trades to high demand resorts during prime seasons don't come easy (regardless of what all the salesmen/managers say). 

I'm an extremely happy SVN owner and have never once regretted selling our Marriott TS.

Good Luck!!

Jerry


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## pvangordon (Mar 6, 2006)

I bought developer at WKORV last October through WMH and, while I know it's a nice property that I'll be able to use in future years, ultimately I feel I made a big mistake.  Everything from service issues to MFs to the realities of the particular unit I bought to other things.  I'm not blaming anyone, but it was just things that I didn't learn until later on.  If I had known these things, no way would I have bought at that time.  Now I'm stuck with it, so best I can do is have fun and enjoy my vacations.  Marriott has been much better for me overall, so I'd be more likely to buy from them again than Starwood.


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## Denise L (Mar 6, 2006)

*Happy to have bought from the developer*

We bought WKORV, sight unseen, in 2003. No regrets at all! It was great to get some Starpoint incentives and I like calling up 12 months out and booking whatever week I want. We love the resort and views and pool and snorkeling.

I think it was a good first timeshare purchase. We were interested in resale but the resort was too new to see any for sale.  We didn't want to wait, so we bought a week. Wish we could have afforded two weeks, but oh well!  Maybe later.

If you love Princeville, go for it.  It will take a while for resales to show up (usually after it opens for occupancy) and then they might be $7K less than developer (that's what WKORV resales were when they first showed up, I think).

Good luck! Starwood is great so far!


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## formerhater (Mar 6, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Don't buy today - the same deal will be there next week and next month and they will probably even offer you MORE incentives if you tell them you're not ready yet.  If you are patient, you can eventually pick up a resale at the WPORV (Princeville) in the future.



While you certainly don't have to buy today, I'm doubtful that incentives will budge too much higher as they've just started selling.  That is, unless they have trouble selling them.  The current incentive package is 100,000 Starpoints which is not too shabby.  As others have mentioned, it will be a while for resales so if you want Princeville sooner than later, it's developer or developer.  Another thing to consider is occupancy year.  They have some availability for the second half of 2008 so, again, if you're in a hurry to go there, you don't want to wait too long or they will only have 2009 available.


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## Loriannf (Mar 7, 2006)

*We're happy with Developer purchase*

We bought WSJ in 1999 (3 bedroom) from the developer.  It was our first timeshare purchase and before we found TUG.  I must say, in many instances I agree with TUG advice on not purchasing from the developer, but with Starwood I think it can be very beneficial.  For some of the mandatory resorts, if you want to go there, you had better purchase there.  I don't think we could go to WSJ when we want with trades.  Another benefit of buying early in the development of the resort can be pricing; resales for our unit and season average about $10-20000K higher than what we paid.  We've been unsuccessful in finding another 3 bed unit resale and may end up buying another from Starwood on our trip next month.  Hawaii is just too far for us right now - 12 hours from the Midwest - almost impossible with young kids, but we may consider buying the new Princeville for the right deal and trading it for the next few years, especially if it's mandatory.

Lori


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## huestous (Mar 7, 2006)

Thanks to all the replies!  The responses are quite favorable overall (as if I needed the encouragement).

To those who own, or have owned, both Marriott and Westin, I'd be quite interested in your thoughts on the comparative quality and the strengths of the two systems.  PM is fine to avoid a fracas.

Thanks again to all.


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## malex2 (Mar 7, 2006)

*Like 'Em Both*

I own two units each of Marriott & Starwood.  For each pair I own a developer resale w/points eligibility and a third party resale.  The developer units are lock-offs.  The two third party resales are regular two bedrooms.  The point is that I have experienced both systems from all angles, points and options trades, locking off, II trades, rentals, etc.

Both are great systems.  Resorts and units are comparable.  Owning both gives access to a wide variety of locations including the hotel systems.  On the few times that I have rented out, I have always recouped more than my maintenance cost.

Marriott gets an edge on number of locations.  Starwood gets an edge on ease and cost of trades (bypassing II).

Both are expensive in terms of purchase and on-going maintenance costs, but you get what you pay for.  The developer resales offer the point trade flexibility in years when I must take one or two fewer vacations or when I want a location that has no timeshares, but great hotels.  The third party resales were obtained cheap and offer great internal priority trades.

malex2


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 8, 2006)

One thing I should mention, that it would or can be difficult to get a trade from Westin to Marriott via II.  Marriott owners are given a 21 or 24 day trading preference over other owners.  For example, only Marriott owners will see other Marriott deposits in the window.  All other owners will have to wait until that timeframe is up.  So some of the most popular places might be difficult to trade to or you have to be very flexible on your dates and go when you get a match.  

As far as quality I'd say most of the Marriotts meet the same interior quality except the ones that haven't been refurish (which could be a lot of properties).  For example, we stayed at the Marriott in Williamsburg but the kitchen had not been updated so I would have been disappointed if I traded a Westin for this unit.  Also, the Westin Maui bathrooms beat any bathroom I've ever stayed at in Marriott.   Westin Maui does have more full service options like valet parking, beach towel exchange service, onsite restaurant, etc...  The Westin Maui is more like a full service hotel.  While some Marriotts have some of these services you just don't see all these services at their resorts.  I haven't stayed at any other Westin resort so I don't know what the services are like at those places.

I think, Marriott properties are a little cheaper in price than Westin.  Westin is definitely expensive.  Also, the maintenance fees at Westin are much higher than Marriott.  I'm comparing my Westin Maui & Marriott Waiohai properties and there is a huge price difference in purchase price as well as maintenance fees.

But I'm not really comparing Apples to Apples in the above situation.  I've heard the new Marriott Towers at Kaanapali beach will be just as nice as the Westin property and are comparable in price.  But then again you are in a situation where you probably wouldn't want to trade out your Marriott because there are so few comparable properties.  

I guess, it all comes down to your vacation habits.  Where do you want to stay and go? 

GL....


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## Negma (Mar 8, 2006)

We toured both the Marriot and Westin Maui properties. The rooms to us were close but, they are converting the Marriot from a hotel to timeshares. They did not have full size refrigerators, stoves, etc. they had to compromise a little in some areas. I travel a lot for business and have found Westin to usually be a notch above Marriot. The Marriot location is more central to whalers village, but for some that can be a negative. Just another opinion.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 9, 2006)

I don't own Starwood or Marriott, but envy those of you who do.  That said, I see lots of people here on TUG saying that they would buy starwood again and buy from the developer. Most all Marriott owners say they would only buy from Marriott resale.

Just my observation.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2006)

I would buy (and did) mandatory Starwood resorts resale.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 9, 2006)

Negma said:
			
		

> They did not have full size refrigerators, stoves, etc. they had to compromise a little in some areas.



Marriott is adding full kitchens to the new units that they are adding at Maui.  So they will be similar to the Westin (or at least the new towers will be).


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## LauraS93 (Mar 11, 2006)

We bought from the Westin and are very happy.  Although we do like Marriott too, and may just have to look into their system when we are ready to purchase a second week.


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## PCSongman (Mar 21, 2006)

Loriannf said:
			
		

> We bought WSJ in 1999 (3 bedroom) from the developer.  It was our first timeshare purchase and before we found TUG.  I must say, in many instances I agree with TUG advice on not purchasing from the developer, but with Starwood I think it can be very beneficial.  For some of the mandatory resorts, if you want to go there, you had better purchase there.  I don't think we could go to WSJ when we want with trades.  Another benefit of buying early in the development of the resort can be pricing; resales for our unit and season average about $10-20000K higher than what we paid.  We've been unsuccessful in finding another 3 bed unit resale and may end up buying another from Starwood on our trip next month.  Hawaii is just too far for us right now - 12 hours from the Midwest - almost impossible with young kids, but we may consider buying the new Princeville for the right deal and trading it for the next few years, especially if it's mandatory.
> 
> Lori


 Lori: Did you indicate in your post that new units are still available from Starwood at the Westin St. John?

Regards, Howard


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## tsl (Mar 21, 2006)

*Marriott vs. Starwood.......*



			
				huestous said:
			
		

> Thanks to all the replies!  The responses are quite favorable overall (as if I needed the encouragement).
> 
> To those who own, or have owned, both Marriott and Westin, I'd be quite interested in your thoughts on the comparative quality and the strengths of the two systems.  PM is fine to avoid a fracas.
> 
> Thanks again to all.



We purchased our 2 Marriotts from the Developer.  Hawaii was our first timeshare when we didn't know any better.  Marbella was something that worked b/c of the exchange rate at the time and incentives.   At first, we used the points from Marriott and got some great packages and airline awards.  We learned all the tricks from the seasoned Tuggers.  In about 2000/2001 Marriott changed the point system and I have never felt like the points are worth the exchange since then.  I have also noticed that the new resorts are getting few points.  Booking into a Marriott hotel w/ points is hard unless you use 50% more points and now we can't stand to vacation in such cramped quarters esp. when we have the kiddos w/ us.

Because we learned we are not really point people (esp. since I rack up so many points on airlines and hotels through work), when we fell in love w/ Harborside, we bought resale and saved about $20K.  I think the Starwood point program is better than Marriott, but again, I will have what I need from the credit card and business stays.

I agree w/ the posts that Marriott has the best game going on trading w/ II.  I pick the week w/ the most power at my resort, deposit it at 12 months and I have never failed to get the Marriott internal trade I wanted.  Now when you arrive at  the resort, Marriott gives you the worst view......but that is another story.

With Westin, I see the value of the staroption (Westin internal trade) but for the Big 3 resorts, it is hard to make the exchange and it is just luck.   I don't like the fact that my Harborside options have the same value as Orlando.  StarOptions spend like currency and the amount you paid for your resort or its desirability do not factor in.  I have not deposited Harborside w/ II nor will I.  I do not like the fact that Starwood gives me a week and it isn't my season or maybe not even my resort.  That just trashes trade power. We will either use our Harborside unit, rent it or direct trade it on TUG or the Starwood owners forum.  

Reservations:  I have never had a problem getting the week I want w/ Marriott but I usually call at the 12 month mark.  The seasons I own usually have a number of prime weeks.

With Starwood, I found out I purchased a fixed week 30!!!  (too excited to always have July at Harborside......)  I can call and confirm my fixed week and then see if I can reserve another week in my float.  If I get another date in the float period, I can cancel my fixed week.  This is a great system if you are reserving in a tight season where there are a few weeks that are better than the rest.

Lockoffs:  I agree that with Starwood, you really have two units and you could really live in either side for a trip.  It also increases the trade value b/c you are really trading a 1 BD---not just a hotel room like the Marriott units.

Fees:  My Harborside costs almost as much as my 2 Marriotts together!!!  Again, with Starwood, to make it work, you need to use it or trade it for something equally as nice b/c it costs.

Overall, I like both programs.  They each have pros and cons.  If you don't need the points or you think you wouldn't use them often, buy resale with either.  With Marriott, if you buy a powerful trader, you can internally travel the Marriott system for years.  With Starwood, buy where you want to go and hopefuly, it will have the power to direct exchange.

Just my 2 cents........


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## Loriannf (Mar 21, 2006)

*I think there are still new units*

We're going in for our annual use week April 22 and will go to the owner's update.  Last year when we were there they still had a few weeks in Phase II (Buildings 43 and 44) and some gold weeks in both phases, as far as the 3 beds go - that's the only thing I pay attention to since we want another one.  I think some of their inventory is from foreclosures, and some from owners of the fractional portions who are trying to unload weeks in the older buildings.  Since we're looking for a Platinum Plus week, we know we don't want week 7 (last year's price was about $122,000), we may be disappointed.  We're now considering buying one of the new Hawaii weeks or Harborside and using the options for an extra week in St. John.

I'll post after we get back with any info I get on inventory and pricing.

Lori


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