# I like Sunterra Resorts...



## Spence

...their name may not be recognized as readily as Fairfield, Marriott, Hilton or Hyatt... but a biased review finds their resorts clean, comfortable, spacious, well decorated and, particularly in the US and Europe, well located... 

While Sunterra's billing and computer services are rudimentary, their online payment system is coming along.  Their reservation system is a signifcant facility not available to many owners of other resort/point systems, in addition to making reservations, you can add a guest's name online (no fees required) and immeadiately receive a new 'confirmation' by email.  Hopefully you will soon be able to cancel reservations online.

Although I am universally unimpressed with the use of points for maintenance fees, air miles, airfares, cruises, casino stays, etc. with any points system, I believe that Sunterra's points program is particularly useful in providing flexibility in varying the season, unit size, resort location and duration of stay.... YES!!!... you can get 'change back' from your annual allotment, with the ability to save from prior year (if done by published deadlines) and borrow from next year.

A major/important features that is seldom considered, unlike the major exchange companies, Sunterra does not object to, nor do they thwart, the rental of weeks (including non-home-resort weeks) by the points owners.... it'd be nice if the owners were able to rent points/transfer those points among themselves....

Elite/VIP benefits are available if your have enough points, whether you got them retail or resale.  

I would like to hear what others may think about the company, the product and/or the use of the Club Sunterra system...

Spence


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## timeos2

*Overall they are Ok*

I am not as enthusiastic about Sunterra as I am Fairfield. But it is a good system. They have a few excellent resorts and many OK. I've yet to run into a total dog in the Sunterra system (but there are a few I've avoided and they may qualify).  Their fees are reasonable but the inability to get the same answer twice regarding any resale is troubling.  I don't like that the II membership is a crippled one. FF gives you a full RCI membership.  The continuous push to buy more and different styles of club memebership is troubling as well. 

Overall they rank 3rd out of my three points memberships with FF a run away #1.  But any points are better than weeks so they still are one of my keepers.


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## Spence

*What Sunterra affiliated/associated resorts have you been to?*

Club Mougins, Cannes, France
Carlton Court, London, Great Britain (RCI exchange(can't afford the SunOptions!))
Powhatan Plantation Resort, Williamsburg, VA
Greensprings Plantation Resort, Williamsburg, VA
Royal Dunes, Hilton Head Island, SC
Cypress Pointe, Orlando, FL
Cypress Pointe Grandevillas, Orlando, FL
Polynesian Isles, Orlando, FL  (RCI exchange)
Flamingo Beach Resort, St Maarten
Royal Palm Beach Resort, St Maarten
Carambola Beach Resort, St Croix, USVI (no longer a Sunterra resort)
Sedona Summit, Sedona, AZ (RCI exchange, first timeshare stay, ever)
Sedona Springs, Sedona, AZ (visited only)
Villas of Sedona, Sedona, AZ (visited only)
Ridge Pointe, Lake Tahoe, NV
Harbor Lights, San Diego, CA (no longer a Sunterra resort)
Marina Inn, Oceanside, CA (Sunterra Pacific/Vacation Internationale)
Vallarta Torre, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (Sunterra Pacific/Vacation Internationale)
Valley Isle, Maui, HI (Sunterra Pacific/Vacation Internationale)
EVR Ka'anapali, Maui, HI (owner promo stay)


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## timeos2

*Sunterra Resorts visited*

Powhatan Plantation Resort, Williamsburg, VA
Greensprings Plantation Resort, Williamsburg, VA
Royal Dunes, Hilton Head Island, SC
Cypress Pointe, Orlando, FL
Cypress Pointe Grandevillas, Orlando, FL
Sedona Summit, Sedona, AZ
Greensprings Plantation, Williamsburg, VA
San Luis Bay Inn, Avila, CA
Polynesian Isles, Orlando, FL
Plantation at Falls Creek, Branson. MO


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## KforKitty

I'm happy  from the European perspective.

Sunterra resorts I've visited are:

Pine Lake
Wychnor Park
Kenmore Club
Woodford Bridge CC
Alpen Club Schliersee
Alpine Club Schladming
Vilar do Golf
Greensprings Plantation
Polynesian Isles

and have an week booked at the new associate resort in Cyprus for October 06.

Kitty


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## Bill4728

John Chase said:
			
		

> Their fees are reasonable but the inability to get the same answer twice regarding any resale is troubling. I don't like that the II membership is a crippled one.



Sunterra seem to be getting their stuff together. But they have a long history of problems. Including ongoing problems with the european operation. 

But another concern with sunterra, is that they don't seem to be proud of their own name! Most TS companies proudly names all their resorts with the company name,   Sunterra hides behind the Embassy name at several of their resorts. WHY?


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## Spence

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> But another concern with sunterra, is that they don't seem to be proud of their own name! Most TS companies proudly names all their resorts with the company name,   Sunterra hides behind the Embassy name at several of their resorts. WHY?



Sunterra has had some sort of relationship with EVR for a while.  When I visited EVR Maui in 1980, the salesmen in the lobby were selling Club Sunterra.  What kind of 'stake' Sunterra had or has in EVR, I don't know.  EVR are now in Club Sunterra and present owners can convert.  I would not say that Sunterra is hiding behind the name EVR, EVR has some brand recognition that Sunterra may not have.


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## girard

*Resorts visited*

Polynesian Isles
Cypress Pointe
Cypress Pointe Grandvillas
Greensprings
Plantation at Fall Creek
Desert Paradise

I really like the resorts also.  My only complaint is the difficulty in transferring ownership.  I think a lot more people would be interested in Sunterra if they were easier to work with.  Now that we finally have our resale points, I'm really going to enjoy using them!  I like being able to search online and like the 59 day window with reduced points and the ability to book shorter stays.


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## Carolinian

For a contary view, at least as to their points program, see www.vogas.org and www.sunterrafied.co.uk


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## Spence

Carolinian said:
			
		

> For a contary view, at least as to their points program, see www.vogas.org and www.sunterrafied.co.uk



Contrary opinions are certainly welcome but you seem to bring this up as often as you bash RCI Points, except here I don't believe you have any personal knowledge.

These problems in the links you keep providing seem to stem from some sales practices/promises from a sub-contract group in Scotland back 5-7 years ago.  These promises seem to be no different from many spiels today of last minute/half-price/availability.  If everything was available last minute for half-price, how would a system ever sustain itself.  I believe that 'these people' were taken in by a lot of salesman half-truths and hard line sales tactics, but they should have known better and should have said no.

Kitty, in her post above, seems to have no problems with Sunterra Europe.  She probably plans at the maximum windows like everyone should and has little expectation of getting that 3BR Costa del Sol in the summer for half price points at the last minute.

Other European points of view are welcome.


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## pedro47

Sunterra's resorts visited
Greensprings Plantation
Powhatan Plantation
Royal Dunes
Hilton Head Island Links
Cypress Pointe 
Cypress Pointe Grand Villas
Embassy Vacation Resort Grand Beach
Polynesian Isles

I like Sunterra Resorts, plus sides one club fee to exchange into their resorts
and their points system is easy to learn.

Negative sides: accounting (posting of maint/club fees very slow).


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## Carolinian

The Sunterra Compensation Group site ( www.vogas.org ) is sponsored by the Timeshare Consumers Association, which covers all of the UK, and indeed Europe, not just Scotland.

Another interesting post on the future of Sunterra in Europe is at www.timesharetalk.co.uk posted on the ''Concerns'' subforum under the ''Sunterra'' forum by Mavo, one of the moderators and entitled ''Is this the future of Sunterra?''  I do not seem to be able to post a link to it, but it is quite interesting.  Mavo is a Sunterra owner, and takes a different perspective than the Scottish Action Group Against Sunterra or the Timeshare Consumers Association.

Incidentally there used to be another interesting site from a disgruntled English Sunterra member that was at www.sunterror.co.uk but Sunterra finally compensated him for his grievance and part of the deal was that he take the site down.




			
				Spence said:
			
		

> Contrary opinions are certainly welcome but you seem to bring this up as often as you bash RCI Points, except here I don't believe you have any personal knowledge.
> 
> These problems in the links you keep providing seem to stem from some sales practices/promises from a sub-contract group in Scotland back 5-7 years ago.  These promises seem to be no different from many spiels today of last minute/half-price/availability.  If everything was available last minute for half-price, how would a system ever sustain itself.  I believe that 'these people' were taken in by a lot of salesman half-truths and hard line sales tactics, but they should have known better and should have said no.
> 
> Kitty, in her post above, seems to have no problems with Sunterra Europe.  She probably plans at the maximum windows like everyone should and has little expectation of getting that 3BR Costa del Sol in the summer for half price points at the last minute.
> 
> Other European points of view are welcome.


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## KforKitty

I am well aware of the history of Sunterra (GVC) in Europe and the small number of well publicized disgruntled members. But as in all things you can't please all of the people all of the time and whatever timeshare system you quote there will be some members who feel they are losing out.  The Scottish Caledonian franchise was certainly misrepresenting the points product selling very low number of points with unrealistic expectations of what these could be used for but as Spence has said this is water under the bridge now and Caledonia quite rightly no longer exist.  However that's not to say that all such franchises were a scam or that the management at Sunterra supported the selling of its product in this way.  Indeed, I initially brought points through a different franchisee and I was well aware of what my small number of points purchased could be used for.  

Like I have said I am a happy member and as well as using my points directly with Sunterra, I have also been able to get some decent exchanges though II for example:

Club Monte Anfi, 1 bedroom, Gran Canaria
Alanda Club Marbella, 3 bedroom, Spain
Alpenclub Maria Alm, 2 bedroom, Austria
Disney Boardwalk Villas, 1 bedroom, FL
and a forthcoming exchange to Lawrence Welk Resort, 2 bedroom, CA

I'm not saying the Sunterra system is perfect but what I am saying is that it can get you some very good resorts in a wide range of destinations with a little forethought and planning.

Kitty


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## Carolinian

Again, the Sunterra Compensation Group, sponsored by the TImeshare Consumers Association has a much bigger target than just Scotland, and even the Scottish group is targeting existing Sunterra sales operations outside Scotland.

The Mavo post on Timesharetalk referenced above should interest anyone who is in Sunterra.  Mavo is a UK Sunterra member, and Timesharetalk moderator, whose research indicates that there seems to be a pattern afoot with Sunterra, at least in Europe, of selling off their owned properties and substituting leased inventory.  Mavo projects some rather dire long term implications for Sunterra owners.  It is an issue that Sunterra owners should probably take a look at, whether you agree or disagree.


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## KforKitty

I would say an interesting but purely speculative article by 'Mavo'.  I've read many a post by this author on the Sunterra Members Yahoo group and feel his thoughts carry as much weight as any other member's views there but no more.

Kitty


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## riverdees05

The maintenance fee at EVR - Lake Tahoe was increased over 10% this year.


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## Carolinian

Another concern I would have with Sunterra is its overbearing management style, trying to keep total control of a resort.

A case in point is Sunterra's Powhatan Plantation, which has been discussed at length on these boards.  I also have heard complaints from a friend who owns there.  This resort is essentially sold out, but Sunterra keeps a hammerlock on control of it, rather than turning it over to the members as it should.  Members are shut out from having any say in the running of the resort.  They have not even run it very well, standards having fallen substantially, although apparently that has been improving somewhat recently due to all of the complaints.

Powhatan is an example of how with Sunterra, your HOA is likely to be a developer dictatorship rather than a homeowner democracy.  No thanks!


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## fnewman

The ones I can recall right now....

Cypress Pointe I
Polynesian Isle
Powhatan Plantation
Sea Mountain
Marquis Villas
Desert Paradise
Plantation at Fall Creek
Sedona Summit
Daytona Beach Regency

In addition, we have used our SunOPtions for numerous II exchanges.  WE have never had a bad experience at a Sunterra Resort.  True, some may be better than others, but overall consistently good.

Is the system perfect?  Certainly not.  However, having read the posts here on TUG for several years now, I have yet to come across one that is !!


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## pgnewarkboy

I feel that I did not get the best deal with Sunterra.  I am sure smarter people than myself have done much better in other places.  That being said, I do not have to worry about how poorly I have done compared to others.  I just enjoy what I have.


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## MULTIZ321

*Harbor Lights, San Diego*

Spence,

Do you know if Harbor Lights is still a timeshare and if so, are they affiliated with a particular exchange company?


Thanks
Richard


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## JoeMid

It was a nice location/resort, I'd like to know, too.


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## pedro47

Harbour Lights  in California is not affilated with Sunterra.


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## Spence

pedro47 said:
			
		

> Harbour Lights  in California is not affilated with Sunterra.


that's what I indicated in post #3 above

_
Sunterra Corporation Sells the 59-room Harbour Lights Resort in San Diego, California, to American Property Management for Approximately $8.65 million

Press Release: Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners
*September 11, 2001*
LOS ANGELES, CA -- Sunterra Corporation has sold the 59-room Harbour Lights Resort in San Diego, California, to American Property Management in a transaction valued at approximately $8.65 million.

The Harbour Lights Resort opened in 2000 and is located in Downtown San Diego’s historic Gas Lamp Quarter, capturing a significant share of the area’s leisure demand while still appealing to convention attendees. The Downtown San Diego hotel market has shown significantimprovement in performance over the past several years as the city continues to diversify its economy. With the emergence of the new convention center and new baseball field, the outlook is very positive for the Downtown area.

Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners was Sunterra Corporation’s exclusive representative in this sale. Harry Pflueger and Richard Carlson, managing directors in Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners’ Newport Beach office, oversaw the marketing and disposition of the asset.

“This was an especially challenging transaction,” commented Pflueger. “The Harbour Lights opened last year as a timeshare property, but due to the timing of Sunterra Corporation’s fiscal restructuring, the property was able to be sold as a hotel without any timeshare encumbrances. The absence of historical financial performance made financing this acquisition a real challenge for prospective purchasers.” American Property Management, recently relocated from Albuquerque to San Diego, intends to position the property as an upscale boutique hotel. American Property owns another full-service hotel in Downtown San Diego as well.

The Harbour Lights Resort is one of over 20 assets for which Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners has been acting as Sunterra Corporation’s exclusive broker. As part of its ongoing reorganization, Sunterra has designated these non-strategic assets for disposition. Cash proceeds from the sales will be used to support the firm’s reorganization, the repayment of debt and will allow Sunterra to invest in its core properties, operations, systems and product development. Other California assets from this portfolio include a 390-acre land parcel in Napa County and unsold timeshare inventory in the South Lake Tahoe resort area, both of which were marketed by Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners and closed in early September.

Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners is a leading full-service real estate group focused exclusively on the hospitality industry. Insignia/ESG Hotel Partners is part of Insignia/ESG Capital Advisors Group, which focuses on investment sales and debt financing for major properties of all types. Insignia/ESG is a subsidiary of Insignia Financial Group, Inc., a publicly traded real estate company listed on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol IFS. _


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## Spence

Just received in the mail
_SunGlances_ At a Glance Membership Information Guide
It didn't talk about anything I didn't already know but did spell out a little difference between deeded owners (fixed/float/UDI) and Club Sunterra Vacations Trust (CSV)  and lists the 19 resorts in the Trust.

Doesn't address the sale of your property.


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## Spence

*Looks like Fairfield has it now*



			
				MULTIZ321 said:
			
		

> Spence,
> Do you know if Harbor Lights is still a timeshare and if so, are they affiliated with a particular exchange company?
> Thanks
> Richard



_Jul 29, 05
COMING FULL CIRCLE
Filed under: IN BRIEF — street @ 12:05 am

Week of July 29- August 4

Back in 2000 Sunterra opened the 7-story Harbour Lights Resort in the Gaslamp Quarter of downtown San Diego. Unfortunately, that was about the same time that Sunterra suffered its “fiscal restructuring” (read bankruptcy), and the resort was sold– without encumbrances– to American Property Management in a transaction valued at approximately $8.65 million.

The resort has been operated as an upscale boutique hotel named Prava Hotel for several years. Now we have it back in the timeshare world. The hotel has been sold to Fairfield Resorts, (for around $14 million according to reports), and renamed Fairfield San Diego at Harbour Lights.

Following renovations, it will be a 56-unit timeshare resort, featuring all studio deluxe suites and a single one-bedroom unit. All suites will be fully furnished with living area and kitchenette. Resort amenities include an exercise room, spa with sauna, steam room and massage, guest laundry facilities and valet parking. Renovations are scheduled to begin in October, with an expected resort opening in February 2006.

Welcome back to the family, Harbour Lights.
\
3 Responses to “COMING FULL CIRCLE”

   1. TS-Scoop Says:
      July 29th, 2005 at 4:53 am

      Fairfield San Diego: Did anyone else find it interesting that Fairfield listed the new Fairfield San Diego at Harbour Lights as its second resort in California but first to open, with the new Fairfield Oceanside breaking ground in September as its first California property. What happened to Fairfield Harbortown Point Marina Resort & Club which was a pre Fairfield organization resort (no longer Fairfield in name of resort) and Fairfield Anaheim at Dolphins Cove Resort? Was there also a special reason they reverted to Harbour Lights name in San Diego?
   2. street Says:
      July 29th, 2005 at 12:45 pm

      It was a little boo-boo on Fairfield’s part– call it a typo. They’re probably a little embarrassed by that, so we won’t be too hard on them for it.  So, Fairfield sorta kinda has 3 resorts in California now, counting Ventura, Dolphins Cove’s very limited inventory (mostly it’s a Trendwest resort now) and the Prava, and will have 4 when Oceanside comes on board (but only 2 will be in active sales).
   3. TS-Scoop Says:
      July 29th, 2005 at 6:30 pm

      How did Fairfield Anaheim at Dolphins Cove Resort become more a Worldmark property than a Fairfield property. Being only 600 weeks were sold Worldmark the remainder of the resort was sold as Fairfield or Jim Watkins property?

_


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## MULTIZ321

*Harbor Lights*

Spence,

Thanks for the Harbor Lights info.  Seems like this place has an interesting history.


Richard


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## pedro47

Rec'd paper edition of the new SunGlances on 12/23/2005 from Club Sunterra.


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## Spence

*SunGlances - At a Glance Membership Information Guide*



			
				pedro47 said:
			
		

> Rec'd hardcover of the new SunGlances on 12/23/2005 from Club Sunterra.


hmmmm... mine came as a paperpack.
It's also available for download in .pdf format at www.sunterra.com but is only available upon login.  I've downloaded it and can send it to anyone who emails me.  Please email through TUG link, do not ask for it here.


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## Spence

Spence said:
			
		

> hmmmm... mine came as a paperpack.
> It's also available for download in .pdf format at www.sunterra.com but is only available upon login.  I've downloaded it and can send it to anyone who emails me.  Please email through TUG link, do not ask for it here.



SunGlances in .pdf is presently available to anyone at
https://secure.sunterra.com/US/pdf/SunGlances_Guide.pdf
or members can find a spot to click on the members site.


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## karenvit

Spence--we are interested in owning at the Sunterra Flamingo Beach in St. Martin and originally I was interested in picking up a fixed week there.  I have read your posts on Sunterra and you seem very knowledgeable so I was wondering if it was better to pick up fixed weeks or try for Sun Options points--which makes sense financially.  Thanks for your thoughts.

Karen


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## JoeMid

_*SunGlances*_ is a nice synopsis of Club Sunterra.


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## Spence

karenvit said:
			
		

> Spence--we are interested in owning at the Sunterra Flamingo Beach in St. Martin and originally I was interested in picking up a fixed week there.  I have read your posts on Sunterra and you seem very knowledgeable so I was wondering if it was better to pick up fixed weeks or try for Sun Options points--which makes sense financially.  Thanks for your thoughts.  Karen


Karen, If you want to use Flamingo Beach then you need to buy there. If you can only go a certain week of the year then you should buy that week. If you want the high season 51-13, then you should buy those weeks. I own some weeks at Royal Palm Beach that float 14-50, I have them in the Club now and I can book any time of year that's available instead of just 14-50, 12 months in advance. We vacationed at RPB a year ago Xmas to NewYears with SIL and family and enjoyed it very much, had an RCI exch into Flamingo at the same time for some friends and rented a week relatively cheaply here on TUG at Pelican for another set of friends, can't say that I'm looking to go back that often though.


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## karenvit

*Removed*

_Double posting is not allowed on these Boards._  Please refer to your original post and corresponding responses,  here.


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## Spence

karenvit said:
			
		

> OK guys--this is my question--this unit 51 went on ebay for $32--what's wrong here--how come it went so cheap--I was afraid of it that there had to be something wrong--was I right or did I miss a great bargain--thanks so much--


Week 51 for $32+whatever closing fees were maybe $350 = $382
+ even $2995 CONVERSION = $3380 (maybe less if you take my advice in other threads)
or 31cents/SunOption

The resort sells new for between $2.50 and $4/SunOption!

You missed a bargain if you wanted to join Club Sunterra!  It went so cheap because it would trade like a dog in RCI as it is PINK and the uncertainties of converting to Club Sunterra make that an option that people are afraid of, but it's really pretty cut and dry.



			
				karenvit said:
			
		

> if we had gotten this unit could we trade into St. Martin--sorry but I am new to all of this  Karen


No, even with RCI internal trading preference for Sunterra St Maarten resorts you don't stand much of a chance with this as a trader.

In the Club  you could use SunOptions for St Maarten and fairly easily gone there if you planned ahead either to a Sunterra resort or an I.I. resort through exchange as the Club exchanges with I.I.


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## mrsmr2

We signed up last week.  Just reading the legal stuff now before the 14 day cool off period expires.

We were interested in the Marriott route and were waiting for a suitable retail Marbella to become available.

However, the Sunterra system seems so much more flexible and we expect to get more holidays with the points than we would with the Marriott system.

Of course, time will tell if it's as good as we think.

Jason & Jan


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## Spence

mrsmr2 said:
			
		

> We signed up last week.  Just reading the legal stuff now before the 14 day cool off period expires. We were interested in the Marriott route and were waiting for a suitable retail Marbella to become available. However, the Sunterra system seems so much more flexible and we expect to get more holidays with the points than we would with the Marriott system.  Of course, time will tell if it's as good as we think.  Jason & Jan


14 days seems like a long recision period, are you sure it's not more like 7 or 10?  Where did you buy?  Whatever it is, before you let it pass please peruse these boards carefully.  You're not yet a member so I don't know that you can use the search function but look under this section of the BBS (Points) at anything that looks like it talks about Sunterra.  Look at this thread very carefully and look here and see where someone recently passed up resale at ~31cents per SunOption, if you bought retail you probably paid 10 times that.  Also look at prices here


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## mrsmr2

Thanks for the information.  We did have a look at this forum before we signed up.  I was actually using the resort's PC to do my research while the sales people were in the next room.

We have until 2nd March to to cancel the agreement with Sunterra.  14 days is from the UK Timeshare Act (as per the agreement).

We've looked at resale prices and intend to top up points that way in the future.  However, we can't top up until we are members and that means we have to buy from Sunterra in the first instance.  We bought the minimum number of points from them (and we got an extra 2k points thrown in which was nice  ).

If anyone has any (recent) bad tales then let us know.

Thanks for the help

Jason


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## Spence

Jason,
As the title of this thread indicates, I like Club Sunterra.  I'm not up on the intricacies of Sunterra Europe and how they operate exactly but I have heard that many of those people that are dissatisfied over there sell to other owners, I guess that is what you are talking about in the way of topping up.  Good luck!
Spence


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## mrsmr2

Thanks Spence.

The European system works on points only (except for those people who already have weeks in resorts that have subsequently been taken over by Sunterra).  It looks similar to the US Sun Options (I've just had a quick read through the SunGlances pdf linked above).

The European terms (I'm reading through them now) state that points can only be transfered from member to member.  

However, people have to buy from Sunterra initially to become members.

I've seen a few comments about Sunterra dragging their heels during these transfers so I'll do a bit more digging into that.

Thanks again.

Jason


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## KforKitty

Jason

I'm a happy Sunterra points member so if you've got any specific questions that you need answering please do.

Kitty


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## Kathleen

Hi Spence, 

I don't know anything about the Sunterra product. But, I really do like staying at Greensprings and Powhatan in Williamsburg. We stayed at Sedona Summit years ago. I thought that the resort and the unit were great. I don't have much positive to say about the staff. But, certainly by now, they're off being obnoxious somewhere else. 

Kathleen


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## Spence

Kathleen,
You'll have to bring us up to date on Villas at Santa Fe when you get back.  Enjoy!
Spence


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## Kathleen

Dear Spence,
Yes sir!

My pal Dorothy and I are are packed and ready. As soon as I got in from FL, I packed both bags. She leaves her "American" clothes here permanently. 

I'll pick her up at the airport on March 1st. We stay at the Hampton Inn and fly out the next morning to ABQ. We spend our first two days there and then off to our lovely Sunterra Villas of Santa Fe. We couldn't have done it without you.

It will be so nice to stretch out, after a day of sightseeing. If we had to stay in a hotel we' be sitting on the edge of the beds making fun of the wine stains on each others PJs. This way we'll have some distance so the stains won't be as obvious.

You're the best. 
Kathleen


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## mrsmr2

KforKitty said:
			
		

> Jason
> 
> I'm a happy Sunterra points member so if you've got any specific questions that you need answering please do.
> 
> Kitty



Thanks Kitty.

No specific questions at the moment  - still reading the legal stuff  

Jason


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## 3144

*Question about Sunterra week vs. Points*



			
				Spence said:
			
		

> Jason,
> As the title of this thread indicates, I like Club Sunterra.  I'm not up on the intricacies of Sunterra Europe and how they operate exactly but I have heard that many of those people that are dissatisfied over there sell to other owners, I guess that is what you are talking about in the way of topping up.  Good luck!
> Spence



I recently started looking into time share ownership and stumbled across Tug.  I joined, and have learned quite a bit. We attended a sales presentation at San Luis Bay Inn and was offered a 1 bedroom unit with 4500 points.  I have been unable to determine whether or not points have always been part of a sale and are transferable when you buy somewhere other than directly from Sunterra, or if this is some thing new they are doing.  I followed one of your links to the Sunterra site and still couldn't tell.  Nothing I see advertised for sale at San Luis Bay Inn mentions points.  In the sales presentation, I got the impression you could purchase the unit and various units of points.  Can you enlighten me on this?


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## JoeMid

Why doesn't Sunterra simplify the transfer process, why do they make it so hard to understand?


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## Spence

3144 said:
			
		

> I have been unable to determine whether or not points have always been part of a sale and are transferable when you buy somewhere other than directly from Sunterra, or if this is some thing new they are doing. Can you enlighten me on this?


Membership in Club Sunterra, meaning the availability of points, came into being when Sunterra started Club Sunterra in about 1998. Membership can only come from Sunterra, being it a retail purchase from them or a resale purchase with additional money paid to Sunterra to join Club Sunterra. Membership in Club Sunterra does not transfer with the sale. Don't know exactly what you were being sold at the presentation you went to but it was probably their new 'Trust' product where you buy into ~19 of their resorts with an ownership where Sunterra holds the deed in a trust, called Club Sunterra Vacations - CSV-I.

The 19 resorts available to you with this membership are: Bent Creek TN, Cypress Pointe FL, Daytona Beach Regency FL, Desert Paradise NV, Embassy Vacation Resort CA, Flamingo Beach StMaarten, Grand Beach FL, Greensprings Plantation VA, Island Links SC, London Bridge AZ, Marquis Villas CA, Plantation at Fall Creek VA, Powhattan Plantation VA, Royal Palm Beach StMaarten, San Luis Bay Inn CA, Sedona Summit AZ, Scottsdale Links AZ, Scottsdale Villa Mirage AZ, Villas de Santa Fe NM.

The ability to visit all the resorts in the Trust does transfer to a resale owner but the Club Sunterra membership - the ability to trade into ~100 resorts still does not transfer on sale. This is what a lot of the sales on eBay and Holiday Group are these days.

There are a couple different resort groups involved at San Luis Bay Inn. Only a section of the resort is the Sunterra units.


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## Spence

JoeMid said:
			
		

> Why doesn't Sunterra simplify the transfer process, why do they make it so hard to understand?


So that they make money on every transfer and so that they discourage resales, thus supposedly encouraging retail purchases.


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## ahmo

I am interested in Sunterra Sedona properties, and the weeks I see for sale are floating weeks.  Would a floating week be eligible for conversion to points or sunoptions?  Thanks.


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## Spence

ahmo said:
			
		

> Would a floating week be eligible for conversion to points or sunoptions?  Thanks.


 Yes, a floating week would be eligible and would be assigned a value that was an average of the weeks it floated.  This amount wouls of course be more than the low season but less than the peak season.  I've heard that if you wanted to reserve a peak season week that you would have normally been able to reserve with your float, you would be able to do that for just the allotted number of points.


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## madmitch

I'm a non Sunterra owner at SLBI which I consider my home/main resort. No major complaints although the change in RCIMs reservation system (from Mexico City to Ft Lauderdale) booked me elsewhere at Christmas... the former Owner Services Manager took care of that for me upgrading to a 2 bedroom for all 4 nights at SLBI not Laguna Hills.
It has been explained to me Sunterra Points Sales are non-transferrable if you buy at the resort. Ownership rights do transfer but the seller will loose thousands by forefiting their full Club Sunterra perks. Many Sunterra services remain but not the points.
I found by buying resale at one of the other (former Epic) resorts on the list of 19 will probably work better, especially if one can indeed buy into the full program for $2995 additional should one want.
For me, adding to my SLBI 1 bedroom Imperial (former Glen Ivy) with Sunterra is ideal, and I'm giving that a try via 6500 points at a former Epic Resort.
And yes, the resort does have a split personality with many former Glen Ivy ownerships, many Sunterra ownerships some without SunOptions, managed by RCIM with Sunterra in active sales (not sold out yet buy soon they keep promising every visit...)
Management just completed resurfacing the pool deck, a new brick BBQ pit, plus the "C" wing has new furnishings.
Non-Sunterra resales are posted in the lobby. You can split the week 4-3, 5-2, 3-2-2 and bonus time is reasonable.

Cheers
Mitch



			
				3144 said:
			
		

> I recently started looking into time share ownership and stumbled across Tug.  I joined, and have learned quite a bit. We attended a sales presentation at San Luis Bay Inn and was offered a 1 bedroom unit with 4500 points.  I have been unable to determine whether or not points have always been part of a sale and are transferable when you buy somewhere other than directly from Sunterra, or if this is some thing new they are doing.  I followed one of your links to the Sunterra site and still couldn't tell.  Nothing I see advertised for sale at San Luis Bay Inn mentions points.  In the sales presentation, I got the impression you could purchase the unit and various units of points.  Can you enlighten me on this?


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## prasadv1

Hi Kitty,
I have just bought two two bed room high weeks at las Amigo beach  club .
Please let me know how much sunterra  europe will charge me to convert it to points
membership. Is it better to own weeks or is it better to convert to points?
Thank you.
Prasad.


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## ronandjoan

I got turned off by Sunterra because of the mobile homes and trailers surrounding the Plantation at Fall Creek and the swimming pools on site that said, Closed for vandalism.  The units themselves were nicely, if not lavishly decorated, but the views of the trailer park were abysmal.


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## 3144

*Can't transfer Sunterra option points*

Thanks to everyone,  I've learned quite a bit in just a few days.  I talked to a resale broker and had it confirmed that if you buy a resale, the points option does not transfer.  I have seen reference to the $2995 fee to join Club Sunterra, but I can't figure out how many points you get for that money.  I assume it equals the number of points required to use your own unit for however many weeks you purchased.  Now the question is....Can you sell the membership when and if you sell your interest in the Sunterra property?
      I'm still considering buying a 1 bedroom week at San Luis Bay Inn then buying into  club Suntera.  I could still save quite a bit over retail.  Especially if I can sell the club membership.  
     How many of you out there finally just bought points in World Mark, rather than put up with all the Sunterra games?  Will I find surprises with a World Mark  
purchase?


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## svwoude

You can NOT sell your Club Sunterra membership. You can sell the deed for the location that you own at, but not the points, or the membership. The next person would have to again pay the $2995, or whatever the going rate may be at that time.

You are also correct, that for the $2995 you get the amount of points that your week is worth. Good Luck trying to figure it all out, as Sunterra doesn't make it very easy.

That being said I am very happy with Club Sunterra. It works very well for me!  

Steve


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## Sue S

*Another happy European member*

I've been to:

Pine Lake
Wychnor Park
Woodford Bridge
Sahara Sunset
La Quinta
Benal Beach
Alpenclub Schliersee
Alpine Club Schladming
Sunset Bay (my son)
Sunset Harbour (my daughter)

II exchages:

Marriott Marbella
Royal Savoy, Madeira
Alpenland Sporthotel Maria Alm
Cold Spring Resort (NH)

... and maybe a few more that I've forgotten.  

Sunterra, in my view, is an excellent system with a good range of resorts.  

Mavo of Timesharetalk fame is one member who posts dozens of negative comments about Sunterra.  He has some valid points but labours them over and over again perhaps giving the impression that they're actually being debated by a number of members.  Not the case as far as I know.

The other sites that Carolinian mentions are old news - problems caused by mis-selling by franchises which seems to have been stopped by Sunterra.


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## joestein

My wife and I wanted to purchase a timeshare at either Powhattan Plantation or Greensprings through resale and then join the club.  We were told by Sunterra that we would have to buy a minimum addition 2000 points for about $7,000 and the unit we bought (found an August 4 bedroom lockout for $1,500) would be converted to points as well.  So our total cost would be $9500 plus closing costs.

We were told that the $2995 club membership was only for people who were original owners at the timeshares that hadn't joined the club.

We looked around more and found that Fairfield allowed you to use the points in their system regardless if you bought resale or through the developer.  We ended up buying a week a Sea Gardens in Florida worth 161,000 points (2 bedroom red season) for only $3000, must less than Sunterra would cost us.

In addition, we have broken up our points into blue studio weeks and exchanged them for 2-bedroom weeks during red season through RCI.  We have used the points for 2005 to book a week in May at "Fairways at Palm Aire" and 2 weeks in August at "Summit at Massanutten", and I still have a red studio deposit left in RCI, I don't know if you could do with Sunterra points.

So, I can't see going thorugh all the trouble with Sunterra when you can get a similar system with Fairfield without all the aggrevation.

And it is not like Sunterra has timeshares that are any better or nicer than Fairfield (Unlike a Hilton or Marriot timeshare that is a step up).


Joe


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## timeos2

*Why do they make it SO hard?*



			
				joestein said:
			
		

> So, I can't see going thorugh all the trouble with Sunterra when you can get a similar system with Fairfield without all the aggrevation.
> 
> And it is not like Sunterra has timeshares that are any better or nicer than Fairfield (Unlike a Hilton or Marriot timeshare that is a step up).
> 
> 
> Joe



Joe - It makes you wonder what they think they are gaining doesn't it. I also like Sunterra resorts and have actually been happy with the Club Sunterra points (options) system. But I cannot get a straight answer regarding adding options from other resales, what I can/can't transfer if I sold and get told about yet another "new" club everytime I talk to a sales rep.  It is just too much.  I'll keep my existing deeded week and Club Sunterra membership as long as it works - if it changes in the wrong direction I'll just revert back to my deeded week for use in RCI, II or SFX and forget Club Sunterra. It isn't worth any hassle. 

As for Hilton and Marriott being a step above Sunterra - absolutely. But at least 50% of the FF resorts are as good as Marriott/Hilton now and each new one seems better than the last. The older ones don't match up but do offer locations Marriott/Hilton usually don't. FF may be the best value in resale timeshares period.  If they ever wake up and stop depressing resale values with their crazy new sales tactics it will be the best overall.


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## nightnurse613

If they sold you a one bedroom with 4500 points, I'm pretty sure you are in one of their points programs.  Does your "trust record" (deed) say 4500 points or 1 bedroom?  You'd be looking for words like "Sun Options" or "Club Sunterra".  I have resisted their membership although they recently gave me a very hard sell (blacklisted me forever). I am sure someone can give you a more definitive answer.


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## Spence

*B.s.*



			
				joestein said:
			
		

> We were told that the $2995 club membership was only for people who were original owners at the timeshares that hadn't joined the club.  Joe


I've been told by both Sunterra Corporate and by Jules Rickless VP Sales for the East at Powhatan/Greensprings that they will do it for flat fee of $2995.


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## madmitch

I have just purchased 6500 points of the "Land Trust" through resale. Former Epic Las Vegas.
This offers priority at the 21 resorts, with lesser priority at the remaining resorts.
My goal is to add use at San Luis Bay Inn, where I own via RCIM non-Sunterra.
I'll give this a shot for a bit then consider the $2995 upgrade, which I've been told is available to me.
Of course I like several of the other resorts available within the 21.
I'll report back any problems or info that I feel should be known by others.
For starters, I had everything complete and files (payment, closing, notorized papers) and was told to contact Sunterra for my membership number, only to be run through a wringer until I insited they had all the info they needed, nothing more was necessary, then after 5 min on hold I was welcomed to Club Sunterra and given a temporary number, with a promise my complete membership would be active within 30-days.
That's the end of the month so when it happens, you'll know!


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## Spence

madmitch said:
			
		

> I have just purchased 6500 points of the "Land Trust" through resale. Former Epic Las Vegas. This offers priority at the 21 resorts, with lesser priority at the remaining resorts. My goal is to add use at San Luis Bay Inn, where I own via RCIM non-Sunterra. I'll give this a shot for a bit then consider the $2995 upgrade, which I've been told is available to me.
> Of course I like several of the other resorts available within the 21. I'll report back any problems or info that I feel should be known by others. For starters, I had everything complete and files (payment, closing, notorized papers) and was told to contact Sunterra for my membership number, only to be run through a wringer until I insited they had all the info they needed, nothing more was necessary, then after 5 min on hold I was welcomed to Club Sunterra and given a temporary number, with a promise my complete membership would be active within 30-days. That's the end of the month so when it happens, you'll know!


This sounds a little odd, a little contrary to what we've seen in the past.  You say that you get _lesser priority at the remaining resorts_ sounds like they gave you full Club Sunterra where you get the other resorts at 10months out.  Usually resale TRUST buyers would only get to use the 19-21 Trust resorts.

It'll be interesting to hear what they say about the SLB RCIM ownership.

Let us know how everything comes out.


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## Kathleen

Hi Spence, 

Our trip to the Villas de Santa Fe was wonderful. The staff were superior. The resort is small but sweet and very accomodating. They provided shuttle service within three and half miles of the resort.  The location was an easy walk to town.  Our room was small but very functional. Very nicely decorated.  I would happily return. Sante Fe is lovely. 

 I give the resort two thumbs up. 

Thanks Spence.
Kathleen


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## EileenSRN

*I don't have enough points to do much*

I inherited my Week 8 4 bedroom L/O at Powhatan. My Mom was a charter member. After many years we finally got a Sunterra Club Membership. I kept my deed and can revert back if necessary. I joined the Club because I liked the looks of the Sunterra properties, and didn't like  what was happening in RCI weeks. Granted, we have gotten some awesome trades with our little white Powhatan - Pres week in Orlando a few times, Catskills in July, Las Vegas in Feb, Az in Apr.  Not always GC, but nice resorts. We even were able to gift a retired friend to a week in Maui in November. All these exchanges were in red time. My 2 2 bedroom units got us 2 2 bedroom units somewhere. I know many will say we're a good example of what's wrong with RCI. I also have to say that we're not long term planners. None of these exchanges were booked more than say 9 months out. What you (we) don't know before you join the club is exactly what your points will get you. I have 3000 points for each 2 bedroom unit. There's not much I can do with that, at least for the next 3 years, until we retire. Then we can take advantage of the 45 day discount - does it really work? We went to Powhatan for the first time in years in April -for 5 days. I tried to make it 6 (closest to the 3000 pts), but the system wouldn't let me take half  a weekend (Sat at one end or Fri at the other). I love the MF at Powhatan - $350ish for a 2 bedroom and would like to pick up a red or holiday week time, but I'd have to pay again to bring that unit(s) into the fold. I'm sitting here reviewing what I wrote and it looks like I'm "Crying with a loaf of bread under my arm". (Got to be old to get that one!) Yes, I'm now getting the trades I "deserve". What I wish was that Sunterra wasn't so close to the chest with their program info. I wish I had known I had to give up a 2 bedroom white to get anything in pink or red, or could only stay 5 - or 4 - days instead of a week. I wish I could retire tomorrow...
Eileen


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## Spence

*Re: I don't have enough points to do much*

*Then we can take advantage of the 45 day discount - does it really work? *
It's 59 days and it sometimes works, usually in off or shoulder seasons

*We went to Powhatan for the first time in years in April -for 5 days. I tried to make it 6 (closest to the 3000 pts), but the system wouldn't let me take half a weekend (Sat at one end or Fri at the other)*. 
The 'system' will certainly let you take half a weekend.  Under normal reservations a week in April (non-Easter/holiday) would be 4000 points, nightly rates are then 1/10th (400) for weeknights and 3/10ths (1200) for weekend nights, that would make 5weeknights+1weekendnight= 3200.  For this April there was a big sale at 75% off and there was plenty of availability outside of 60days when there is a penalty for cancelling.  You could have cancelled previous reservations and made new ones at 75% off the above rates!


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## EileenSRN

OUCH!!
And I waited till the 45 day mark to start looking for that extra day. Guess I'm back to the fine print again. RCI's Last Call did me in, apparently. Thanks for the heads up, Spence


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## madmitch

Well, my paperwork arrived today with my Club Sunterra Membership number and info to connect to the web-site.
(Se previous message about purchasing via resale)
I have 6500 points, but really don't have a clue yet how to utilize those for the "3-4 day" visits I hope to take.
Booking at 45 days out sounds great, if that works for less-than-week stays.
Also, when I connect into Member Benefits, I get a message I'm not registered or eligible yet... could be the $2995 option I haven't done yet, or just not enough time to set everything up.
I'll be calling the 877 number for more info and help...
and Spence, anything you have to offer is greatly appreciated.


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## madmitch

OK... I've had some time to digest the web site and review everything that seems to be an available option at this time for me.
First, let's backtrack. I purchased 6500 Points at Desert Paradise Las Vegas, a former Epic Resort now under the umbrella of Sunterra.
With that came Club Sunterra memership, use of the 19 resorts in the UDI Trust during the 13 month window, and the remaining resorts within the 10 month window.
I'm already an Interval member so we'll see if they extend that or what.
For now, I've been reviewing options for Branson, Sedona, Orlando for a November holiday. Not bad really from what I find on WebRes.
Looking for time at San Luis Bay Inn has proven to be a bitch, which is one reason I bought this (I own there through RCIM and hope for more time). But it gives me nice dates at Embassy Lake Tahoe as an option. (I also own at Tahoe Beach and Ski, maybe not for long now)
Trying to find a week in Hawaii has been a pain too, but that's not really a vacation priority for us anyway, just a test.
So, chances are I'll use some 2006 points for Sedona, bank the rest and see what I can put together for 2007.
Oh yes, those 6500 points can get me 8-11 nights in a 2-bedroom in Orlando... where 10 days is almost needed to really enjoy the fun!
(My 1-bedroom at TBSC will get me 7 nights 2-bedroom at Marriott Cypress Harbor or Grande Vista... now that'd be a holiday combo!)
Like Spence, so far, I can say I Like Sunterra too...


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## Spence

madmitch said:
			
		

> I'm already an Interval member so we'll see if they extend that or what.


  Your Club Sunterra membership to I.I. is unrelated to any other I.I. membership that you may have.


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## madmitch

Here's a new question for my fellow Club Sun associates.
We may be going to Sedona for 4 or 5 days between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Much depends on work schedule, availability and a few other things.
We are not golfers, but enjoy the outdoors, atmosphere, relaxation and great places to see and visit.
(My wife will be at the later stages of recouperation from a potential medical situation, so this really is for relaxation and change in atmosphere)
Of the Sunterra Resorts, only a 1 bedroom would be needed, what are your recommendations, plus what are your suggestions for not-too-strenious things to do?
Thanks all!
Regards
Mitch in Sonoma


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## fnewman

We very much enjoyed our stay in a 1BR at Sedona Summit a couple of years ago, so can recommend that one to you.  The staff was very cordial and helpful.  The resort is nice and well-located.  See reviews for details.  One thing you can do is to take a day trip by van to the Grand Canyon with stops at various other sites along the way.  There is alos some very nice shopping if you are into that.


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## pedro47

At one time the following resorts were a part of Club Sunterra Resorts:  Fort Lauderdale Beach, FL.,  Carambola Beach, US Virgin Island and the Savory on South Beach, FL can club members still exchange into these resorts?


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## fnewman

Referencing my 2004/2005 SunOPtions catalog, I see only the Westgate (Coral Sands) at South Beach and the Coconut Palms (New Smyrna Beach) in that area of Florida; in the Caribbean all I see is Flamingo Beach and Royal Palm Beach in St. Maarten, N.A.


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## tamtime

I like Sunterra too I am however a little nervous about what is going on now.


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## fnewman

What's going on?


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## Kazakie

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> But another concern with sunterra, is that they don't seem to be proud of their own name! Most TS companies proudly names all their resorts with the company name,   Sunterra hides behind the Embassy name at several of their resorts. WHY?



Sunterra & Embassy Vacation Resorts end naming

http://evr.sunterra.com/faq.html

http://evr.sunterra.com/pdf/2321-KB-ltr.pdf

...Although I'm still not sure why the name SUNTERRA is not in the property name.  There's the Wesin Ka'anapali, the Marriott Maui, and now the Ka'anapali Beach Vacation Resort.  

If you're trying to establish a brand why wouldn't you call it the Ka'anapali Sunterra or Sunterra Ka'anapali or Sunterra Maui?  Associating Sunterra with a premium name like Maui or Ka'anapali has to be good for the overall brand, and i wouldn't think the Sunterra name is so tarnished to have a negative impact on the property over a "generic" name.


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## PeelBoy

*I also like Sunterra resorts*

I have done Westgate for 4 years, before buying Sunterra in 1998.

I like Sunterra for:
1. European resorts. Los Amigo Beach Resort is as good as any quality resort in North America. Palazzo Catalani is the best experience I have so far. Le Manoir des Deux Amants sits at the banks of a very beautiful river.  I have booked Alpine Club and Alpen Club for 2007.

2. Good quality resorts in North America.  South Beach cannot be beat, but we can no longer use it anymore. Coral Sands, Sedona Ridge (my home resort) and Grand Beach are better than Westgate, slightly superior than Intrawest resorts, but also slightly inferior to Marriott's.  I was disappointed with Cypress Pointe and Powhatan, but they are still very nice places for a one week vacation.

3. 59 day rule.  I have 10,000 SunOptions.  In theory, I can book a one bed room and one studio each for a week, that is it.  Being an empty nester, I can fully utilize the benefits of flexibility by booking last minute.  Now, I am having 4 weeks in a one bed room every year, during shoulder or off season though.

4. Very II friendly.  I have no difficulties pulling Sheraton and Marriott in the last minute.  I can book and pay online.  Sunterra is not involved in the process, unless I have to pay MF for the coming year.

Sunterra is not perfect.  There is still room for improvement:
1. Their web site sucks. Speed is slow.  Search is very user unfriendly.  The best feature is their central payment.

2. Very difficult to find availability in some affilitated resorts, e.g. in Washington, Oregon, Hawaii and Italy.

3. Too many resorts in one area, e.g. UK, Sedona, Florida.

4. Resale unfriendly.  I am looking for my second timeshare in the resale market. Some tuggers have advised me I have to pay $2995 to convert the fixed week to SunOptions, though I am a member already (No way, too expensive).  Some told me to buy a non-Sunterra property and deposit it via their Club Select program.  I will have to pay $100 (sounds good, but too good to be true).  Some said I can buy the new Trust and then collapse the 2 accounts into 1.  I have called Sunterra office but none of them can explain clearly to me how the system works.  They promised to do it for me if I will purchase 2000 new points from them (get lost).  I still want more SunOptions, but lately, I am looking for RCI points.


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