# Westin kaanapali resort - considering purchase, need some advice : )



## csouther (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm currently looking into purchasing a 2 bdrm 2 bth with 148,100 starpoints.  We  were given a pitch this past June for a ridiculous amount and I rec'd some great advice from some members on this board back then.

What would be considered a good purchase price?  Are all the units floating?  The listing I'm looking at has a specific week, so I'm guessing no.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I know about a timeshare I'm looking at - 2/2 lockoff with island view, annual usage, apprx 2400 in MF, week 47.

Does the maintenance fee include taxes?  Is this something I always need to ask, or is it safe to assume?


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2012)

If you are flexible about when you go to Hawaii, you can buy at a much less expensive Starwood resort, and trade in through Interval International, for a fraction of the cost.

I would investigate that option, first.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 30, 2012)

ask a question(s) about buying WKORV/N and get a response about II traders...

I like owning WKORV, but we own OF and this is what I would advise if looking into buying WKORV.  The OFD and OFC villas at WKORV are unique amoung the SVO VOIs.

I am assuming you are looking at an IV at WKORVN - I would not advise buying IV at WKORV.  I am not against buying WKORV/N like some others here, but make sure your decision weighs in multiple factors. 

As DM mentions (often) - buying an II exchanger (like SDO) is a good way to get into WKORV/N and WPORV. However, you will not be a priority for location (view) - if this is important to you.  Also, certain times of years can play a role.  Also - it wards against future rule changes that can affect ownership and the exchange value.

All the villas are floating weeks 1-50 (generally, unless one was specifically fixed at a large premium).  Weeks 51-52 are sold as event weeks - there are other event weeks as well, but these are rare and likely being sold at a premium which would be stated as part of the sale since it is to the sellers benefit.

The taxes are included in the MFs as Ad Valorum taxes.

As to prices - I would peruse this forum (esp the threads that discuss ROFR), eBay and other TS selling sites. For a WKORVN 2bd LO IV - I would guessimate around $15K.  MFs are posted in the 2013 MF thread - they have held steady for 3 years after rising dramatically.  The current reserves are good.

Maui Gov't continues to try and screw TS owners - so be on the lookout for this as well.

good luck


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## LisaRex (Oct 30, 2012)

I'd strongly advise only targeting WKORVN if you want island view. Some of the south side island views face the highway. 

If you have young children, the south side is more child friendly, and the villas are larger.  

If you plan to travel with just couples, the north side is more adult.

If you ever plan to split your week, and travel two consecutive weeks, only the OF villas have a balcony on the studio of the south side.  On the north side, both sides have balconies. 

That being said, if you don't plan to travel during high season (e.g. summer and holidays), you'd be better off buying a trader such as WKV and exchanging in.  If you buy IV, you will be put in an IV.  If you exchange in, you have a chance of getting on OV. 

Starwood is really starting to exercise ROFR on these units, so keep this in mind when bidding. It may take several months to get a unit.


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## wilma (Oct 30, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> If you are flexible about when you go to Hawaii, you can buy at a much less expensive Starwood resort, and trade in through Interval International, for a fraction of the cost.
> I would investigate that option, first.



I have traded into both properties, north and south, with SDO and I'm not sure I would do it again. As others have mentioned when you trade in even with another Starwood property you gamble on your view. After staying at the south property I vowed never to trade there again. We were first assigned the dreaded highway view and were finally moved to a front facing unit with a view of the adjacent bldg, but no road noise. I stayed at the north property a few weeks ago and was under the impression that no units faced the highway. However, we were assigned a unit (believe it was 7484) very close to the highway, you could see the cars and it was very noisy. We tried calling and asking for another room but they said no. We went back to the front desk and pleaded with the very unfriendly woman, who hardly said  a word but somehow found something else for the next day. we had to move out of our room and be without until later that day but were assigned a lovely unit with an oceanview. When I got the new keys she told me to assume that we would only be given rooms in bldg 7 in the future and this was a one-time deal! If you don't want to see and hear cars I would suggest trying to purchase a oceanview or oceanfront unit.


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2012)

The OP is considering buying an _Island View_ - which is why I recommended a II trader.  Quite frankly, it doesn't make $$$ sense to buy an Island View, when you can accomplish the same thing, with a much cheaper II trader.  [If you buy an Island View and make an owner's reservation, you will be assigned to an Island View, so why not trade in for a fraction of the cost.] 

I agree with David - I would not buy at the resort (again  ) unless I was going to buy an ocean front unit in the South Phase.

Wilma - With ALL resorts you gamble on your view when you trade in.  It is unrealistic to expect a prime view as a trader - the resort put owners in the best views - as they should.


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## jarta (Oct 30, 2012)

> All the villas are floating weeks 1-50 (generally, unless one was specifically fixed at a large premium). Weeks 51-52 are sold as event weeks - there are other event weeks as well, but these are rare and likely being sold at a premium which would be stated as part of the sale since it is to the sellers benefit.



The OP posted about a week 47.  Week 47 is usually Thanksgiving week and, at some SVO resorts, is an event week.  So, although I have never heard of any 1-50 weeks at WKORV being fixed weeks, there is slight possibility that this week 47 at WKORV could be a fixed week.  I just don't know enough about WKORV to say.

I post only because, for almost all people, a fixed IV week 47 at WKORV would be beyond useless.  I agree with you that only OV or OFC or OFD should be of interest.  Salty


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## wilma (Oct 30, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Wilma - With ALL resorts you gamble on your view when you trade in.  It is unrealistic to expect a prime view as a trader - the resort put owners in the best views - as they should.



Denise--Of course I know a trader gambles on the view, but thanks for the lecture. I don't expect a *prime* view, I never said that, I just don't want a view of the highway. At some resorts you might get a non-view unit but it's still ok. I prefer not to spend a week in Hawaii looking at a busy road. And as I pointed out you can get a highway view in WKORV north and south. But if you are going to suggest that everyone should buy a trader to get into the Westins in Kaanapali, then they should expect the worst units.


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2012)

Wilma - As a trader, you should expect a view of the Highway - that's the reality of the situation when you trade it.  Don't get me wrong - to ask nicely at check-in is one thing, but to continue to plead for an upgrade you aren't entitled to is rather over the top - that's why the desk was unfriendly.





> We tried calling and asking for another room but they said no. We went back to the front desk and *pleaded* with the very *unfriendly* woman


The OP is considering buying an Island View - if he buys that, he should expect a highway view, too.

Therefore, there is no point is BUYING a highway view, hassling with ROFR,  and paying that high maintenance fee, when you can trade in for a fraction of the cost, with the same end result.


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## wilma (Oct 30, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Wilma - As a trader, you should expect a view of the Highway - that's the reality of the situation when you trade it.  Don't get me wrong - to ask nicely at check-in is one thing, but to continue to plead for an upgrade you aren't entitled to is rather over the top - that's why the desk was unfriendly.The OP is considering buying an Island View - if he buys that, he should expect a highway view, too.
> 
> Therefore, there is no point is BUYING a highway view, hassling with ROFR,  and paying that high maintenance fee, when you can trade in for a fraction of the cost, with the same end result.



That's not why the front desk person was unfriendly, we saw her being unfriendly to everyone. There are Hawaii resorts where you can trade in and not get a busy highway view, and I was making the point that this is a resort I will never trade into again. But I will also not offer my opinion again in this Starwood forum, as the "over the top" lecturing is a bit much.


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2012)

wilma said:


> I'm here right now, II exchange w/SDO, and it's full. The bellman said it was 98% and the pool chairs are sparse. They are tagging chairs in the morning. The pool is way too crowded, finally rented the lounge chairs & umbrellas at the beach.



Just wondering - you said the resort was 98% full and there are only so many units to go around, so *who* should get the highway view rooms?  When the resort is full, someone has to go there, and exchangers are at the bottom of the totem pole...

Expecting to get a better view is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


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## csouther (Oct 30, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> If you are flexible about when you go to Hawaii, you can buy at a much less expensive Starwood resort, and trade in through Interval International, for a fraction of the cost.
> 
> I would investigate that option, first.





DavidnRobin said:


> ask a question(s) about buying WKORV/N and get a response about II traders...
> 
> I like owning WKORV, but we own OF and this is what I would advise if looking into buying WKORV.  The OFD and OFC villas at WKORV are unique amoung the SVO VOIs.
> 
> ...





LisaRex said:


> I'd strongly advise only targeting WKORVN if you want island view. Some of the south side island views face the highway.
> 
> If you have young children, the south side is more child friendly, and the villas are larger.
> 
> ...





wilma said:


> I have traded into both properties, north and south, with SDO and I'm not sure I would do it again. As others have mentioned when you trade in even with another Starwood property you gamble on your view. After staying at the south property I vowed never to trade there again. We were first assigned the dreaded highway view and were finally moved to a front facing unit with a view of the adjacent bldg, but no road noise. I stayed at the north property a few weeks ago and was under the impression that no units faced the highway. However, we were assigned a unit (believe it was 7484) very close to the highway, you could see the cars and it was very noisy. We tried calling and asking for another room but they said no. We went back to the front desk and pleaded with the very unfriendly woman, who hardly said  a word but somehow found something else for the next day. we had to move out of our room and be without until later that day but were assigned a lovely unit with an oceanview. When I got the new keys she told me to assume that we would only be given rooms in bldg 7 in the future and this was a one-time deal! If you don't want to see and hear cars I would suggest trying to purchase a oceanview or oceanfront unit.


 
Thanks for all your input. 

The Timeshare I was considering is on ebay right now with about 3 hours to go and it's at a little over 5k.  I'm going to pass for now and will look into other locations that will allow me to trade into this resort as most have suggested.

I really have to do some research instead of waiting until the last day of an auction to get some info.


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## jarta (Oct 30, 2012)

Maui is still Maui - even if you have a view from your room at WKORV of the parking lot and the lovely hills beyond it.  

My advice to those who expect/demand the very best room when the resort is full: go out for dinner (walk to Duke's; drive to Kahana), take a long walk on the beach, watch the spouting whales from the park (December-May), grab a shuttle over to Whaler's Village for shopping, take a dinner cruise on the sound, go over to downtown Lahaina for people watching, buy more food at Safeway - but find a way to stay out of your room until the sun goes down.     Salty


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## Ken555 (Oct 30, 2012)

wilma said:


> I stayed at the north property a few weeks ago and was under the impression that no units faced the highway. However, we were assigned a unit (believe it was 7484) very close to the highway, you could see the cars and it was very noisy.



FWIW, 7484 is an ocean view unit. It is also closest to the road of all the units in that building. I've been in building 7 multiple times, and even though I haven't been in the 84 unit I've been able to see and hear the road. I remember when I was renting from a car rental nearby and I was able to see their office from my unit, since it's just down the road. 

However, trading in via II gives no preference, and the entire point (at least for me) of selecting the North property, given the choice of the two, is to increase the odds that I might have an ocean view. Having some road noise, assuming its only when the door is open, is part of the risk of using II and this resort. At least it's not the south property with potential for a unit without any ocean view at all!

Given the number of visitors and how it's so often to hear unhappy guests at the front desk, this message of setting expectations is an important one and it's not out of line for us to repeat it now and then. Knowing what's possible is great, but setting expectations is even better. Hopefully others will benefit from this thread to help them enjoy their stay at these resorts.


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## pacman (Oct 30, 2012)

wilma said:


> Denise--Of course I know a trader gambles on the view, but thanks for the lecture. I don't expect a *prime* view, I never said that, I just don't want a view of the highway. At some resorts you might get a non-view unit but it's still ok. I prefer not to spend a week in Hawaii looking at a busy road. And as I pointed out you can get a highway view in WKORV north and south. But if you are going to suggest that everyone should buy a trader to get into the Westins in Kaanapali, then they should expect the worst units.



I own at SDO and have traded into both WKORV properties at least 4 times. Since I purchased a cheap SDO, I consider myself very fortunate to trade into Hawaii period! We have got the dreaded parking lot view, but made the best of it. How bad can it really be? YOU ARE IN HAWAII!! As a II trader, I expect to get the worst room/view, and anything better than that is a pleasant surprise and bonus. Wilma - its not a lecture, its a little education.

pacman


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## PamMo (Oct 31, 2012)

Csouther, you made the right decision to wait on buying, and do some more research. I agree with the others and would not buy IV at WKORV. We do enjoy our oceanview and oceanfront units, though, so am definitely not against buying at WKORV or WKORVN. It all depends on how you vacation.

I've got to comment on the "unfriendly" front desk. Unfortunately, we've felt the same non-aloha spirit from the front desk every time we've checked in (several times over the last couple of years) - as owners and when exchanging back in. Some say it's because so many guests are unreasonable and demand better views, but I don't buy that excuse. It's training and management. The WPORV front desk was outstanding! (As were our experiences at the Hawaiian Hiltons, Marriotts, and Sheratons.)


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## dlca1 (Oct 31, 2012)

2 Bedroom LO WKORVN Island View Annual Ended up selling on ebay for $6800.


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## ferndale (Oct 31, 2012)

We own both IV, and oceanfront in Maui.  We have never actually stayed in an IV, but our oceanfronts are worth every penny we paid.  (and yes it was alot!)  In the winter months, the whales perform daily in front of the Lanai, and in the summer months, we watch sunsets and drink Mai tai's on the Lanai!!  I highly recommend the oceanfront dx corner units in the south side if you can find one.  They are much larger than the ones in the North side, and have a real oven.  The MF's are higher than for any other unit, but worth it (for us anyway.)   Good luck with your search!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 31, 2012)

If I had to keep only one of our SVO TSs (or own just one) - it would be the OF WKORV (not north)

Unlike jarta - I like to dance nekkid on the lanai during sunsets and this is something my neighbors would not appreciate... 
- all of the other lanais are exposed

I have never (in 6 visits) had the front desk folks not be professional or not have Aloha spirit - and have seen them be nothing but polite to others even when some of these 'guests' do not deserve it.
This goes for all visits to the other resorts we own.


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## Quadmaniac (Oct 31, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Unlike jarta - I like to dance nekkid on the lanai during sunsets and this is something my neighbors would not appreciate...



Ah you must be the exhibitionist we had to call security about. They said to take a video of your dancing and post it on Youtube and the problem will cure itself :hysterical::hysterical:


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## ferndale (Nov 1, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Ah you must be the exhibitionist we had to call security about. They said to take a video of your dancing and post it on Youtube and the problem will cure itself :hysterical::hysterical:



Tug needs a like button!!


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 1, 2012)

Another thing to consider when buying a timeshare is when you visit?   Right now we are stuck with school vacation times so, our time is prime time for trading.  I don't think I would take the risk of not getting a trade just to save some money if Maui was my destination place.   There are many things to take into consideration before buying anything including timeshares.  We go to Maui at least once a year and sometimes twice a year.   Then, we usually visit another island once every 2 to 3 years.  So, we go alot and love Hawaii.  So, for us we needed to know that we are going to get the week we need to go.  Between work schedules, school holidays and sport schedules we have a very limited window of when we can vacation.  In fact, I know all of our vacation days for next year.   I also like to book Hawaii a year in advance so, I can use frequent flyer miles.   

Now, if you are someone who travels mainly off season and really don't need a special week then, a timeshare might not be for you.   There are tons of really nice properties in the Napili Bay area with kitchens that might fit your budget.  However, they aren't the same vibe as WKORV area.  It is definitely very quiet and not as resort like.  So, the area is different.  I know lots of people that love the hotel like lifestyle and that is where the Westin is a good option for them.   I would explore all options before you commit.  Good luck..


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## Ron98GT (Nov 1, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Ah you must be the exhibitionist we had to call security about. They said to take a video of your dancing and post it on Youtube and the problem will cure itself :hysterical::hysterical:



No! No! It's David dancing nekkid, not Robin 

:rofl:


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 1, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> No! No! It's David dancing nekkid, not Robin
> 
> :rofl:



Ewwwwwww I was just going to have dinner and you had to give me that image


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 1, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Another thing to consider when buying a timeshare is when you visit?   Right now we are stuck with school vacation times so, our time is prime time for trading.  I don't think I would take the risk of not getting a trade just to save some money if Maui was my destination place.   There are many things to take into consideration before buying anything including timeshares.  We go to Maui at least once a year and sometimes twice a year.   Then, we usually visit another island once every 2 to 3 years.  So, we go alot and love Hawaii.  So, for us we needed to know that we are going to get the week we need to go.  Between work schedules, school holidays and sport schedules we have a very limited window of when we can vacation.  In fact, I know all of our vacation days for next year.   I also like to book Hawaii a year in advance so, I can use frequent flyer miles.
> 
> Now, if you are someone who travels mainly off season and really don't need a special week then, a timeshare might not be for you.   There are tons of really nice properties in the Napili Bay area with kitchens that might fit your budget.  However, they aren't the same vibe as WKORV area.  It is definitely very quiet and not as resort like.  So, the area is different.  I know lots of people that love the hotel like lifestyle and that is where the Westin is a good option for them.   I would explore all options before you commit.  Good luck..



You have some good points, but do consider you are talking about a huge difference of maybe $400-700 per week vs $2300 per week. I've been lucky so far getting those prime times with some advanced planning and sometimes last minute luck. For the difference, you can probably rent the time you want with a lot less commitment, if you can't find it on exchange, for not much more than the regular MF.

Each person has their preferences, but if you're looking to buy Maui, I would strongly consider Marriott as the location at the beach is much better than the Westin Kaanapali IMHO.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 1, 2012)

The reef outside of WKORV/N is tough to beat... so I guess if you want to hoof it up there to snorkel, then Marriott may be better... 





RomoBomb!!!


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Each person has their preferences, but if you're looking to buy Maui, I would strongly consider Marriott as the location at the beach is much better than the Westin Kaanapali IMHO.



I think this is very much an individual preference:  After staying at WKORV, we think the Marriott area is much too busy and congested, and the beach and snorkeling are better at WKROV & N.


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 1, 2012)

I agree snorkeling is good in front of the Westin but hard to beat in front of the Sheraton with the turtles. The beach walkway is much better on the Marriott side and the number of restaurants choices along the beach.


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## Ken555 (Nov 1, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I agree snorkeling is good in front of the Westin but hard to beat in front of the Sheraton with the turtles. The beach walkway is much better on the Marriott side and the number of restaurants choices along the beach.



And the crowds...I'd rather be a ~30 min walk away from that congestion.


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## Henry M. (Nov 2, 2012)

I actually bought at WKORV because it was NOT near Whaler's Village. As they say, different strokes for different folks. I really don't like how busy it is near the Marriott and the Westin hotel. If I want to eat at one of the restaurants there, I'd rather take the shuttle once in a while than have to put up with all the people on the boardwalk full time during my vacation. I usually eat elsewhere anyhow.

However, I can see how others might like it better if there is more "action" around them. 

I also like the reef at WKORV much better than the snorkeling/swimming at Black Rock on the Ka'anapali side. The reef is right in front of the resort and if I want more sand, I can find it just south of Kahekili Park, next to the resort.


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 2, 2012)

I don't know, maybe I'm just zoned out or clueless, but it didn't seem that crazy busy at Christmas and spring break this year at the Marriott. When I was at WKORV this past Sept, I didn't notice it being much different but when I do go to Maui, I am usually all over the island and usually use the hot tub in the evenings only. I guess I will have to pay more attention to it. I love running along the golf course by the Marriott as it is so beautiful.


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## Henry M. (Nov 2, 2012)

Maui has been a little less busy since the economic downturn, but I usually go in the summer and in the early 2000's it could be hard to walk in the evening around the Whaler's Village area. 

It is all somewhat splitting hairs. You're on Maui and in paradise wherever you are staying!


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## Ken555 (Nov 2, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I don't know, maybe I'm just zoned out or clueless, but it didn't seem that crazy busy at Christmas and spring break this year at the Marriott. When I was at WKORV this past Sept, I didn't notice it being much different but when I do go to Maui, I am usually all over the island and usually use the hot tub in the evenings only. I guess I will have to pay more attention to it. I love running along the golf course by the Marriott as it is so beautiful.



I think the difference is not that it is "crazy" near Whaler's Village, but rather that it is an area with many retail and restaurant establishments, many large hotels, and a popular beach area. Every single time I go there from WKORV, I always feel as if I'm at a busy area - just like a mall. When I'm at WKORV, it's a completely different feeling, since almost everyone there is staying at the resort - of course, there's a public park next to the resort, and a few other resorts nearby, but other than a few locals very few go to the beach by WKORV who aren't staying at the resort. And, the walk path south to Whaler's Village goes through/by a few older resorts that have a very density when compared to Whaler's Village. 

In essence, it's night and day between Whaler's Village and the WKORV area. It's very hard to imagine this not being the case any time of year, but I have never been to WKORV during the holidays (and have absolutely no desire to do so!) - based on other reports, I'd expect WKORV to be full, but still that wouldn't be anywhere as dense as at Whaler's Village just based on the number of units available for tourists there.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 2, 2012)

I always hear from Marriott owners how great the beach is.  Once I made a comment and some said that I was there at the wrong time of year and it isn't always like that.  Well, we were there last July visiting our aunt and uncle.  We were staying at WKORV and they were at the Marriott.  The beach directly in front of the Marriott is just plain dangerous for recreational swimming.  The water drops off very quickly and it difficult to keep control.  I do like the beach in front of the Sheraton but it quite a hike from the Marriott with all your snorkel gear so, I really don't see that as an advantage.  You can take a shuttle bus from WKORV to see the same beach.   Many of the restaurants in Whaler Village are subpar.  They have some good stuff but not like the best ever.  But the convenience is nice.  Same with the Westin the restaurants onsite are okay nothing spectatular.   I was disappointed with the snorkel right outside the WKORV this trip.  It seemed like there weren't as many fish as in the past.   There are other beautiful beaches.  If you really want to see a lot of turtles I highly recommend Honokeana Bay and Napili Bay.


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## dlca1 (Nov 2, 2012)

Practically speaking, how much of a benefit does being able to reserve at 12 months v 8 months get you? Still debating about whether to buy WKORV(N) Ocean View or Platinum WKV. 

Also intrigued by one of the other posts. If we aren't trying to go during the most popular weeks yet (kids are still toddlers and not in school yet), maybe makes more sense to just rent from another owner?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 2, 2012)

dlca1 said:


> Practically speaking, how much of a benefit does being able to reserve at 12 months v 8 months get you? Still debating about whether to buy WKORV(N) Ocean View or Platinum WKV.
> 
> Also intrigued by one of the other posts. If we aren't trying to go during the most popular weeks yet (kids are still toddlers and not in school yet), maybe makes more sense to just rent from another owner?


Since we own OceanView on the WKORV (south side) reserving at 12 months ensures that I get a room on a high floor.  Once I reserved my room two days after I could for Thanksgiving week and my renter was placed on the 1st floor. They seemed okay with it but that doesn't really give you ocean view.  You might see a tiny sliver of the ocean.  The best ocean view rooms are high floors closes to the ocean front rooms as you can get.   At 8 months I would get the worst ocean view room.  However, if view isn't important to you then it won't be an issue for you.  I'm not sure how it works on the WKORV-N side as far as ocean view rooms go.  Seems like they get less complaints over there.

The only other thing I like about reserving 12 months out is that I can use my frequent flyer miles.  If I reserve later I take that gamble I might not get the unit.


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 2, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Since we own OceanView on the WKORV (south side) reserving at 12 months ensures that I get a room on a high floor.  Once I reserved my room two days after I could for Thanksgiving week and my renter was placed on the 1st floor. They seemed okay with it but that doesn't really give you ocean view.  You might see a tiny sliver of the ocean.  The best ocean view rooms are high floors closes to the ocean front rooms as you can get.   At 8 months I would get the worst ocean view room.  However, if view isn't important to you then it won't be an issue for you.  I'm not sure how it works on the WKORV-N side as far as ocean view rooms go.  Seems like they get less complaints over there.
> 
> The only other thing I like about reserving 12 months out is that I can use my frequent flyer miles.  If I reserve later I take that gamble I might not get the unit.



I do appreciate that you have better control of view by owning there, but with the bulk deposits of late being sometimes 14-16 months in advance I am not sure the 12 or 8 months in advance is much of a benefit anymore.

I would still think buying a cheapo SDO for less than $1000 and about $1100 MF is a better way to go vs $15K and $2300 MF for an IV and more for an OV. For the difference, playing the view lottery is worth it on what unit you may get.


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 2, 2012)

dlca1 said:


> Practically speaking, how much of a benefit does being able to reserve at 12 months v 8 months get you? Still debating about whether to buy WKORV(N) Ocean View or Platinum WKV.
> 
> Also intrigued by one of the other posts. If we aren't trying to go during the most popular weeks yet (kids are still toddlers and not in school yet), maybe makes more sense to just rent from another owner?



Especially if you are not seeking prime time, the best is to buy SDO as there is so much availability when the bulk deposits come out. You can sometimes grab prime time as well as I managed to get the last two weeks in August for next year and this year I had spring break. A 2 br might cost you $3000 to rent and you can trade in with one side of SDO for $750-800.


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## Quadmaniac (Nov 2, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> The reef outside of WKORV/N is tough to beat... so I guess if you want to hoof it up there to snorkel, then Marriott may be better...



We just have to get rid of that naked exhibitionist in the next lanai :rofl::rofl: :whoopie:


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## dlca1 (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks Quadmanic and ciscogizmo1

View is important to us (but so is being smart about finances). We just came back from WKROV Ocean View 1 month ago. With a 14 month old, we enjoyed a lot of our vacation from inside the Villa.  Looking out into that amazing WKORV pool area and the ocean beyond was truly amazing. 

Sounds like
- By owning at WKORV/N and booking at 12 months, chances are great that you can secure the best ocean view and best weeks available. 

- By owning at WKV and booking at 8 months, will likely be able to get most weeks, but have lesser ocean view

- With a trader, which is the best bargain by far, expect an Island view (possibly Car View). With bulk deposits, chances for getting your week are good.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 2, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I do appreciate that you have better control of view by owning there, but with the bulk deposits of late being sometimes 14-16 months in advance I am not sure the 12 or 8 months in advance is much of a benefit anymore.
> 
> I would still think buying a cheapo SDO for less than $1000 and about $1100 MF is a better way to go vs $15K and $2300 MF for an IV and more for an OV. For the difference, playing the view lottery is worth it on what unit you may get.



I probably should have added that I only book summer and Thanksgiving week as those are the only times I can travel.  I've never seen bulk deposit for Summer weeks that schools are out.   I've seen early June and late August but here kids are in school.   I've never really looked at II for Thanksgiving week but the point of my post was that I booked 2 days after I could I got 1st floor.  I thought that was pretty bad only two days after the booking period opened up.  

Definitely agree take the cheaper unit and trade in.  I definitely would not get into debt for a timeshare.  Personally, there are some really nice units near Napili Bay for rent all the time that have full kitchens.  I rather stay there.  I would personally go the rental route and skip owning but that's me.

The OP has a toddler now.  Some people are okay with taking their kids out of school for vacations.  I did that until 2nd grade and then it just got too difficult to make up the work.  It really depends on the  nature of your school district or private school.   But where we go to school you make up all worked missed including class work.  It can be stressful to try and work on it between school and other activities or commitments.  Our teachers here don't give out the work in advance and I don't blame them as it is extra work to get it together.  So, when we got back from vacation the work just became a battle of the wills.  Plus, my kids love school and don't want to miss out on the stuff happening there.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 2, 2012)

All kidding aside - it is personal and important choice.

I was merely (and an attempt at levity) trying to expound on the unique benefits of OF WKORV (view, solitude) and the fabulous beach, surf, and reef outside - as well as a kick-ass resort.  Of course, it comes with a hefty price (and we paid way more than current prices)
(If you want to see the OF WKORV (inside and out - sunsets, etc) - as well as turtles right outside - I have video on YouTube - search: blujahz, WKORV - promise no 'all-natural' videos... ) 

Even with no kids - we barely go anywhere but from our villa to the beach right below - and stay within local walking distance.  The perfect lazy vacation.

Note: the OF floors at the lower levels have some obstructions for view , and less isolation - this is another reason we own, and reserve 12 months in advance.
We have also been fortunate to fly on UA using FF saver miles (80K for 2 RT SFO-OGG) in exit rows at the times we want to depart/arrive for the last 3 years.

#WINNING




don't worry - he only looks illegal


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 2, 2012)

...


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 2, 2012)

...





many of these tress are gone - I think this is from 2007


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 2, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> ...


  I love that million dollar view.... sigh.... to be there now.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 2, 2012)

sigh... me too.  I am glad I capture video segments of our vacations - I can go back and daydream
I just made flight arrangements for Sept2013 - so long to wait.
my friends just used our studio a couple of weeks ago - they loved the resort
aloha


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## hypnotiq (Nov 2, 2012)

Sept 2013 for us too...wedding time.


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## dlca1 (Nov 2, 2012)

Wow-- Thanks for sharing those pics. We just came back and I am ready to go back.

hypnotiq- congrats on the wedding.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 2, 2012)

hypnotiq - if you are around 9/7-14 - we will buy you guys a celebration drink...
we got married there as well (Kapalua Beach at sunset)... it was perfect.


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## hypnotiq (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks! That's actually the week we're aiming to be there. Just waiting to catch an exchange via II. 

We've already got family/friends distributed through KBC and Kahana Falls for that week. Ours are the last reservations I need to secure. 

We're planning on getting married @ Secret Cove.


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## GregT (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey,

I want to put in a plug for Maui Ocean Club -- I love that place!

We also have nice ocean views...

Best,

Greg


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## Ron98GT (Nov 2, 2012)

GregT said:


> Hey,
> 
> I want to put in a plug for Maui Ocean Club -- I love that place!
> 
> ...



Off topic, but what are those interesting boats in the background?


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## pacman (Nov 2, 2012)

GregT said:


> Hey,
> 
> I want to put in a plug for Maui Ocean Club -- I love that place!
> 
> ...



Hey Greg
Is that an oceanfront unit? We are heading there in a week, and staying in an OV. Have requested Molakai tower, facing BlackRock.

Gary


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## GregT (Nov 2, 2012)

This is the view from 6206 -- its a 3BR corner unit -- we love it and go every week 25.   I'm trying to buy the adjacent weeks (either 24 or 26) but no dice from the current owners.   

This picture was from 2011 when some Polynesian ships were making a tour of the Hawaiian islands.  They sailed from whereever they were from, and came through Maui our week en route to Oahu.   They were beautiful!

Its a great property, and you can't go wrong with either WKORV or MOC.

Best,

Greg


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## spencersmama (Nov 3, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> The OP has a toddler now.  Some people are okay with taking their kids out of school for vacations.  I did that until 2nd grade and then it just got too difficult to make up the work.  It really depends on the  nature of your school district or private school.   But where we go to school you make up all worked missed including class work.  It can be stressful to try and work on it between school and other activities or commitments.  Our teachers here don't give out the work in advance and I don't blame them as it is extra work to get it together.  So, when we got back from vacation the work just became a battle of the wills.  Plus, my kids love school and don't want to miss out on the stuff happening there.



I do think it is a good idea to think about how you will use the time share now and in the future.  It seems like a long way off, but your now toddler will be in school before you know it.  We bought our TS when our kids were in elementary school because we loved the idea of having more space when traveling.  We still like the extra space, but now that my kids are older, it is getting harder and harder to plan travels in advance, and to even find a week everyone in the family is available.  Having time away to reconnect as a family once a year is non-negotiable to me, but planning a year in advance has been difficult.  It's easy in theory to say, "This is our family time, it's already planned."  But what happens when your kid has been working so hard on their sports team, band, academic team, whatever they participate in, for the whole school year and the team qualifies for the state finals, which just so happens to overlap with your Hawaii week?  

In a few more year, that will change again when the kids are out of the house and DH and I have more flexibility to travel on our own.  I'm sure we will change the way we travel once again when grandkids come around.  Not that a time share has to be a permanent purchase, but there are so many people that seem to buy based on their needs at the moment, and then are desperate to unload it five years down the road when it has become an underutilized financial burden.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 4, 2012)

spencersmama said:


> I do think it is a good idea to think about how you will use the time share now and in the future.  It seems like a long way off, but your now toddler will be in school before you know it.  We bought our TS when our kids were in elementary school because we loved the idea of having more space when traveling.  We still like the extra space, but now that my kids are older, it is getting harder and harder to plan travels in advance, and to even find a week everyone in the family is available.  Having time away to reconnect as a family once a year is non-negotiable to me, but planning a year in advance has been difficult.  It's easy in theory to say, "This is our family time, it's already planned."  But what happens when your kid has been working so hard on their sports team, band, academic team, whatever they participate in, for the whole school year and the team qualifies for the state finals, which just so happens to overlap with your Hawaii week?
> 
> In a few more year, that will change again when the kids are out of the house and DH and I have more flexibility to travel on our own.  I'm sure we will change the way we travel once again when grandkids come around.  Not that a time share has to be a permanent purchase, but there are so many people that seem to buy based on their needs at the moment, and then are desperate to unload it five years down the road when it has become an underutilized financial burden.



Actually, our vacation time has been cut down to pretty much 3 weeks a year.  My kids are in band, competitive water polo, swim, soccer, tennis, etc...  But the 3 weeks that work for us are July 4th, Thanksgiving and New Years Week.  No body really plans anything those weeks.  we are in rec swim and at this point my do not care if they miss.  Without owning my time share weeks we would not be able to trade or rent into these popular weeks.  One thing that is cool is that my Marriott weeks I own are with the DC program which is perfect for us now as I can pretty much pick the check in days. An example when we go to Marco Island it is a Wed to Wed stay.   If the OP really wants a timeshare I would even explore other timeshares that are more flexible that are more of a point base program.   My oldest the other day was just learning that vacation is very expensive and still wants to travel with us in her adult years if I pay of course.   When she told me that I got a little tears eyed for two reasons one is that she really remembers our vacation time together and two I know she isn't going to think like that in a few years when she is in college.  She is a sophomore in high school.  We still have 7 more years of traveling with our youngest.  I'm happy I got my timeshares when my kids were toddlers.  When they leave the nest we will definitely be traveling off season using our frequent flyer miles.  Every family is different and I would never trade vacation time for anything else.


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## Henry M. (Nov 4, 2012)

You might be surprised. I thought our kids would not want to travel with us anymore, but they still love to go to Hawaii or anywhere else we go at 25 and 22! It is us that occasionally want to travel by ourselves and choose not to take them from time to time.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 4, 2012)

emuyshondt said:


> You might be surprised. I thought our kids would not want to travel with us anymore, but they still love to go to Hawaii or anywhere else we go at 25 and 22! It is us that occasionally want to travel by ourselves and choose not to take them from time to time.


  I sure hope so.  I hope we can keep the tradition going.  One thing I noticed when my dh and I got married is that we are not particularly close to our families.  We don't do a lot together other than holidays.  Anyways, we vowed once we had kids we would not do this.  So, when my oldest was born we really fell into the rat race between both of us working and daycare, etc.  We would work a lot not really vacation.  During my oldest early years we did not do a lot of out of town traveling.  We would do a bunch of little weekend trips.   So when the 2nd one came along we realized that we had to do something to force on vacation for more than 2 days.  So, we started exploring vacation homes but in the end decided that timeshares might fit our lifestyle better.  Turns out our gamble paid off and it did fit us well.  It is sad to say a vacation is the only way we relax.  I know others are better at than us and can enjoy time at home.  But as my kids have gotten older it is harder to carve out family time at home.


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## ferndale (Nov 4, 2012)

For us, it was very similar.  My husband and I met in Hawaii in the military.  When we moved back to the mainland US, we got caught up in work, and forgot to take time together for a few years.   We quickly determined that having a timeshare and paying for that vacation every year would "encourage" us to take and enjoy that vacation.  We now own 6 weeks, and although we can't vaca for 6 weeks a year, we enjoy booking a couple weeks at a time and bringing family, or friends along to enjoy with us.  I really enjoy the luxury of space instead of small hotel rooms, or even hotel suites.  All 3 of us are certified scuba divers, and I hope that keeps my son vacationing with us for years and years!!!


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## PamMo (Nov 4, 2012)

emuyshondt said:


> You might be surprised. I thought our kids would not want to travel with us anymore, but they still love to go to Hawaii or anywhere else we go at 25 and 22! It is us that occasionally want to travel by ourselves and choose not to take them from time to time.



Ditto here. Our kids (32 and 30 now) and their families know that our vacations are special times to leave work behind and simply have fun together!


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## Henry M. (Nov 4, 2012)

We've always tried to travel together, but our Starwood timeshares have simplified the process and resulted in many vacations we probably wouldn't have taken except that they were already paid for upfront. The timeshares are not a financial investment and may not even be cheaper than renting in many cases, but they let you budget and plan vacations up front. We also take longer vacations with much more comfort than staying at a hotel (almost regardless of price).

We've used the timeshare mostly in the summer, but we've also exchanged to a place in Germany in the Spring and have exchanged within the Starwood network. We still like to go to Maui for a few weeks in the summer to get away from the Texas heat. It would be more difficult to do if we didn't own there, especially when the economy is good and people travel more.

I am fortunate that I can work remotely so we can go for longer periods without always having to rely on vacation time. I would not want to work if I were going somewhere for a week, but if I can go three or more weeks to a tropical paradise by working some during the time I am there, I am willing to make the trade-off. I couldn't be permanently off-site, but I am already away on business travel significantly, so vacation travel fits right in.

Our timeshare is kind of like buying vacations at Costco or some other warehouse club. You get a discount from normal retail, but you have to be able to use what you get for it to be worthwhile. I also don't have the time to see how I can squeeze every last penny so I prefer to own where I want to go and not go through the exchange process, except every once in a while.


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## dlca1 (Nov 4, 2012)

Hope my comments about a toddler, midway through the thread didn't confuse things.  Didn't see any references by OP to a toddler. 

All the advice from parents regarding timeshare travel and planning with kids from parents who have gone through this are priceless. Things I wouldn't have necessarily thought of, but are important. Love all the helpful advice from this community. Best $15 I've spent in a long time. Thanks!

Good suggestion by ciscogizmo1 to explore other programs. I'm a long time SPG member, so went down that route by default.

Is there something in the Marriott timeshare world that is similar to SDO or WKV?  (i.e. ability to get Maui, but at much cheaper cost) Just starting to do research on the Marriott properties.


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 4, 2012)

dlca1 said:


> Is there something in the Marriott timeshare world that is similar to SDO or WKV?  (i.e. ability to get Maui, but at much cheaper cost) Just starting to do research on the Marriott properties.



Check out the Marriott properties in Palm Springs (Desert Springs, Desert Springs II, and Shadow Ridge).  Marriott's Maui Ocean Club is "comparable" to the Westin Maui properties.

Three big questions for you to research and consider:

1.  View.  If view is important to you when in Hawaii, Marriott exchanges will have the same issue as Westin exchanges -- no guarantees on view.

2.  Marriott's Destination Club (i.e. points system).  Marriott started this a couple of years ago.  A whole lot has been written about it on this BBS.  A resale Marriott purchase will not qualify for the destination club. My own opinion is that exchanges to superior properties outside of the destination club will become more difficult over time.

3.  Season.  Palm Springs is highly seasonal.  In the past and currently, many have successfully exchanged shoulder and summer Palm Spring weeks into Hawaii.  I don't believe this will continue.  If I were to buy a Palm Springs week to trade, I would buy a prime week -- if the trading becomes difficult or impossible, I would at least own something I would use.


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## spencersmama (Nov 4, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> But the 3 weeks that work for us are July 4th, Thanksgiving and New Years Week.  No body really plans anything those weeks.



I think this actually depends on where you live and what activities the kids are involved in.  My niece and nephew in Massachusetts have high school band and football on Thanksgiving day.  And my son's boy scout troop often has their big summer camp adventure over July 4th week so that the adult chaperones can minimize the time they have to take off work.  This past summer they were in Philmont and Colorado hiking and camping for two weeks.  We generally can travel the last week in July, though.  



dlca1 said:


> Hope my comments about a toddler, midway through the thread didn't confuse things.  Didn't see any references by OP to a toddler.



I think I did get confused.  I just wanted to point out that many people buy based on their immediate needs, but don't plan for the future.  I've only been a member of TUG for a year and have already seen tons of TS owners looking to unload cheaply because, for instance, they bought in Orlando when their kids were young, but now don't visit anymore.  I'd hate for someone to buy SDO as a trader, but then not have the flexibility to get the place and dates they want three years down the road.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Nov 5, 2012)

spencersmama said:


> I think this actually depends on where you live and what activities the kids are involved in.  My niece and nephew in Massachusetts have high school band and football on Thanksgiving day.  And my son's boy scout troop often has their big summer camp adventure over July 4th week so that the adult chaperones can minimize the time they have to take off work.  This past summer they were in Philmont and Colorado hiking and camping for two weeks.  We generally can travel the last week in July, though.


  Omgosh... obviously, I didn't explain myself well.   I didn't mean to say these are the only weeks people with school aged children should travel.  I said that these are the weeks that works for me and I wouldn't get them without timesharing.   Of course, others are going to have some weeks that work totally different for them.   Why would  you think that I think that is the only weeks you can vacation?  A little odd if you ask me.  I still say in general with school aged children if you want to travel during vacation time it will be peak time.   We can't travel during our ski week or spring break because of work commitments so, we don't.   My kids do not do marching band as we don't have a marching band here.  They actually do Jazz band.   I would hope people could figure out their situation and what weeks works best for them.  I've also have learned that our situation is constantly changing and I must adjust the schedule but for the last 3 years 4th July, Thanksgiving and New Year's week has been our schedule.

We've been timesharing over 10 years now.   I do think we lucky in that timesharing works for us and we fit the perfect timesharing "people".  We plan a year in advance.  We don't like to do last minute trips.  We bought where we like to go for the most part.  We've traded many times but we do own platinum weeks and I feel that gives us an advantage over someone who owns a lesser week.  I would never tell someone what to do or not to do.  I only share my experience.  Whether it works for you and your situation is totally up to you.


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## LisaRex (Nov 5, 2012)

ciscogizmo1 said:


> Why would  you think that I think that is the only weeks you can vacation?  A little odd if you ask me.  I still say in general with school aged children if you want to travel during vacation time it will be peak time.



I didn't read that into her answer at all.  I just read it as a continual dialogue where the two of you were exchanging information as to what worked for each of you, personally, in hopes of encouraging folks to consider their own situation to determine what system would work best for them.

Me? We have a lake house that's been in our family since it was built shortly after the TVA project that built that lake.  My kids were not allowed to sign up for summer sports because that was our lake time. Family time trumps sports.  The rest of the year was theirs to do with as they please, but no summer sports.  

Now that the girls are both in college, they get out the first of May.  I am very excited to be traveling in May again.  Fewer crowds and much better lodging and transportation rates! Woot!


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