# Intrawest to sell off assets



## ricoba (Apr 16, 2009)

Intrawest the parent company of Club Intrawest is going to have to break off some assets to pay down debt according to this article from today's Vancouver Sun (Intrawest is a Vancouver development corporation).

Now, a guy can only hope and wish.....but wouldn't it be nice if Blackstone decided to buy the Club Intrawest assets and fold it into HGVC!!!   

Hey.....I can dream can't I!!!


----------



## DEROS (Apr 17, 2009)

ricoba said:


> Intrawest the parent company of Club Intrawest is going to have to break off some assets to pay down debt according to this article from today's Vancouver Sun (Intrawest is a Vancouver development corporation).
> 
> Now, a guy can only hope and wish.....but wouldn't it be nice if Blackstone decided to buy the Club Intrawest assets and fold it into HGVC!!!
> 
> Hey.....I can dream can't I!!!



You may not be so far off.  What I can figure about club intrawest ownership is that owners bought points not property.  Hence, Intrawest does not need to worry about what to do with the owners if they sell the assets.  Those assets that are sold off, will no longer be part of the collection of resort that owners will be able to book into.

I can see Blackstone buying Whistler BC, Palm Desert California, and Tremblant Quebec.  These are the three resorts that are already offer as affliates and places they don't own property at.

Currently they manage those three property.  All they would need to do is ramp up a selling team for the properties.  They would no longer be affiliates but HGVC developed, even if the property was already developed.  The only draw back is the current US/World economy.  Can they afford to have 5 properties that need owners (Grand Waikian, Kingsland, Whistler, Palm Desert, and Tremblant)

I know about Sandestine FL but there is way to many HGVC developed/Affiliates there to have any meaning.

Deros


----------



## BocaBum99 (Apr 17, 2009)

DEROS said:


> You may not be so far off.  *What I can figure about club intrawest ownership is that owners bought points not property.  Hence, Intrawest does not need to worry about what to do with the owners if they sell the assets.*  Those assets that are sold off, will no longer be part of the collection of resort that owners will be able to book into.
> 
> I can see Blackstone buying Whistler BC, Palm Desert California, and Tremblant Quebec.  These are the three resorts that are already offer as affliates and places they don't own property at.
> 
> ...



What?!?  Club Intrawest owners own points that aren't in any way linked to properties?  The resort manager can just sell off assets?  If that's the case, then this is the worst timeshare system ever created.  Somehow I believe that this couldn't be farther from the truth about how it works.


----------



## Talent312 (Apr 17, 2009)

BocaBum99 said:


> What?!?  Club Intrawest owners own points that aren't in any way linked to properties?  The resort manager can just sell off assets?  If that's the case, then this is the worst timeshare system ever created...



I looked at the Club Intrawest website.  It touts a "lifetime membership" that gives you _access_ to its resorts (and HGVC's), along with other unspecified travel opportunities.  But it does not mention having an ownership-interest in any of its properties.  Thus, it could be more a travel-club (with a potential for devaluation) than a TS system.  Perhaps a knowledgable CI member could clarify this.


----------



## tashamen (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't believe that CI is different than other points systems like DVC in terms of the ownership of physical assets.  I'm not sure of all the details, and would have to look at my ownership materials or the annual reports (which I don't have handy), but I'm pretty sure that the developer (Intrawest) transfers ownership of specific units at the CI resorts into Club Intrawest, which then owns those units as club inventory.  (They also keep other units out of CI that is used for rentals.)  If I have time over the weekend I'll dig out paperwork on this.

Personally I would not want to see HGVC take over CI - I have little interest in going to any of the HGVC locations, which is just as well since I don't have access to them through CI.  The public CI website makes it sound as though all CI members have access to HGVC resorts, but that's only true if they're willing to pay extra to be members of CI's Extraordinary Escapes program, which I'm not.  Rather I belong to II and make any external exchanges through them.


----------



## JonathanIT (Apr 17, 2009)

ricoba said:


> Now, a guy can only hope and wish.....but wouldn't it be nice if Blackstone decided to buy the Club Intrawest assets and fold it into HGVC!!!


Boy, would this be GREAT news for us as HGVC owners!!!


----------



## richardm (Apr 17, 2009)

*Wow... A bit scary...*

Just say the article this morning, and now found this thread.

I'll pull some files today and see if I can find any docs that shed some light on this subject.  The HGVC idea is interesting, since they reportedly are still flush with cash and have dealt with some bad recent press over trouble with affiliate resorts.  An acquisition of a resort or two could give them a nice PR boost..

Is there enough unsold inventory at some Intrawest developments to interest another developer? If so, I could see someone purchase a resort to two, but I'd guess that a complete takeover would be unlikely as they'd also be buying that massive debt portfolio. Of course, that debt portfolio most likely is attached to their assets- so I guess it's possible a large chunk of assets would have to be moved to successfully restructure the debt in this current financial market.

Too complex a situation for me.. Accountants and lawyers will love it... It should be interesting to watch.


----------



## ricoba (Apr 17, 2009)

Just to clarify, I don't think this will happen, but I for one would like it to happen.  I would like a club in Palm Desert and Vancouver and perhaps Whistler.

One reason I can see it not happening is that this would mean that there would be HGVC's outside of Orlando, Vegas & HI!!!


----------



## DEROS (Apr 18, 2009)

tashamen said:


> I don't believe that CI is different than other points systems like DVC in terms of the ownership of physical assets.



This would be interesting to see how CI sells assets that they do not own.  Unless they are not talking about resorts but non-tangible assets.  I don't know what those non-tangible assets are. 

Ricoba,
  Think happy thoughts!


----------



## DEROS (Apr 18, 2009)

tashamen said:


> I don't believe that CI is different than other points systems like DVC in terms of the ownership of physical assets.  I'm not sure of all the details, and would have to look at my ownership materials or the annual reports (which I don't have handy), but I'm pretty sure that the developer (Intrawest) transfers ownership of specific units at the CI resorts into Club Intrawest, which then owns those units as club inventory.  (They also keep other units out of CI that is used for rentals.)  If I have time over the weekend I'll dig out paperwork on this..



Below is the definition from the "Points System" Discussion on TUG.  Apparenatly CI is a "Pure Points" system in which you buy points in to the TS system but no deed at a single resort.  So I guess CI can sell off the resort assets with very little legal out cry from "owners".  If this is true, I hope this does not get you upset that you don't own a deed to a particular property.


Some systems I call "Pure Points"
-these systems are more like stock in a TS system. You don't own a deed at a single resort but "points" in the TS system. The biggest of these is Worldmark but there are many others Like _*Club Intrawest*_, Vacations Internationale, Monarch Grand Vacations and others (I will add as I discover them)


----------



## Talent312 (Apr 18, 2009)

DEROS said:


> Apparenatly CI is a "Pure Points" system in which you buy points in to the TS system but no deed at a single resort.  So I guess CI can sell off the resort assets with very little legal out cry from "owners".  If this is true, I hope this does not get you upset that you don't own a deed to a particular property.



Thus, CI-Club could find itself having sold more memberships than it has units available...
Anyone here familiar with Mel Brooks' "The Producers?"


----------



## smbrannan (Jun 17, 2009)

There seems to have been a lot of inaccurate speculation in this thread.

Intrawest Corp and Club Intrawest are completely different legal entities.

Club Intrawest is a Delaware corporation, with no stock, that owns a beneficial interest in the properties, and holds this in trust for its members.    Since Club Intrawest has no debt the members effectively "own" the properties.

Intrawest Corp. may want to sell assets to reduce its own debt, but it cannot force Club Intrawest to sell its properties.   And in any event it has no claim on Club Intrawest's assets (whether properties or sales proceeds).

Although Club Intrawest members don't hold specific deeds, they (collectively) are the beneficial owners of all the properties held by Club Intrawest.

Hope that straightens things out.


----------



## ricoba (Jun 17, 2009)

*I know you are just trying to be helpful...*



smbrannan said:


> There seems to have been a lot of inaccurate speculation in this thread.
> 
> Intrawest Corp and Club Intrawest are completely different legal entities.
> 
> ...



....but I think all of us who posted here knew it was silly speculation...and wishful thinking.  Since I started this thread I thought I made it pretty clear that this was just silly talk.  My only reason for posting the info was to offer HGVC owners to dream about the potential of HGVC buying CI and merging it into our club thus growing HGVC by acquisition rather than by building new clubs.


----------



## middleoforchid (Jun 18, 2009)

Ricoba,the more I think about this imagined "merger",I'm beginning to visualize all the beneficial benefits to members of both clubs.The merged Club will have more members,more assets,more locations,maybe even lower maintenance fees! 
Of course this is all wishful thinking but I'd rather go with HGVC because of their reasonable maintenance fees and the locations........


----------



## smbrannan (Jun 18, 2009)

Glad we are all in agreement then. 



ricoba said:


> ....but I think all of us who posted here knew it was silly speculation...and wishful thinking.  Since I started this thread I thought I made it pretty clear that this was just silly talk.  My only reason for posting the info was to offer HGVC owners to dream about the potential of HGVC buying CI and merging it into our club thus growing HGVC by acquisition rather than by building new clubs.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jun 23, 2009)

tashamen said:


> Personally I would not want to see HGVC take over CI - I have little interest in going to any of the HGVC locations, which is just as well since I don't have access to them through CI.  The public CI website makes it sound as though all CI members have access to HGVC resorts, but that's only true if they're willing to pay extra to be members of CI's Extraordinary Escapes program, which I'm not.  Rather I belong to II and make any external exchanges through them.



You are the minority on this one. Most people with really love to take advantage of HGVC quality and locations. Ive been to Intrawest resorts and they are nice- but HGVC resorts are an upgrade.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jun 23, 2009)

smbrannan said:


> Glad we are all in agreement then.



What are we all in agreement about?


----------



## Talent312 (Jun 23, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> What are we all in agreement about?



This, I think...
a "dream about the potential of HGVC buying CI and merging it into our club thus growing HGVC by acquisition rather than by building new clubs."


----------



## tashamen (Jun 23, 2009)

benjaminb13 said:


> You are the minority on this one. Most people with really love to take advantage of HGVC quality and locations. Ive been to Intrawest resorts and they are nice- but HGVC resorts are an upgrade.



I wasn't talking about HGVC quality - just the locations.  I've already been to the only HGVC location that I'd want to go (South Beach) - the others just don't interest me. 

Just curious - how do you know I'm supposedly in the minority on this?


----------



## Bill4728 (Jun 23, 2009)

tashamen said:


> I wasn't talking about HGVC quality - just the locations.  I've already been to the only HGVC location that I'd want to go (South Beach) - the others just don't interest me.
> 
> Just curious - how do you know I'm supposedly in the minority on this?


The idea that HGVC may merge with HGVC may be a win for HGVC owners but I agree with Tashamen that it wouldn't be good for CI owners. 

I also use my CI pts to reserve rooms and deposit with II.  ( thanks for the idea Tashamen!!)  I was able to reserve a studio during the slowest time of the year in Whistler for only 35 pts ( FYI a 2 bd during peak season is about 220 pts) and have found that that studio is getting me lots of great sighting in II.


----------



## pianodinosaur (Jun 23, 2009)

Karen and I had a great time celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary at Club Intrawest Whistler last August.  I wish CI had a resort by Lake Louise and Banff.  However, we do plan to vacation at CI Mt. Tremblant in the not too distant future.  It is not clear to me what is taking place but I hope the CI members and staff ultimately benefit.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jun 25, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> The idea that HGVC may merge with HGVC may be a win for HGVC owners but I agree with Tashamen that it wouldn't be good for CI owners.



Dont understand.  Why wouldnt a merger with HGVC be good for cI owners?


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jun 25, 2009)

tashamen said:
			
		

> Just curious - how do you know I'm supposedly in the minority on this?




be Honest- What do you think?


----------



## tashamen (Jun 25, 2009)

tashamen said:
			
		

> Just curious - how do you know I'm supposedly in the minority on this?





benjaminb13 said:


> be Honest- What do you think?



I am being honest - and sincere in the question.  How do you know any more than I do what the more than 30,000 CI members think about HGVC (or anything else)?  There are lots of us who are simply not interested in the HGVC locations.  Whether it's a minority or not I have no idea as I don't have the kind of inside information that you seem to allude to.


----------



## Bill4728 (Jun 25, 2009)

Right now the price paid by CI members for HGVC vacations thru CI is significantly more than the price paid by HGVC members for CI vacations thru HGVC. As an example:
a CI member doing a RCI request for HGVC - Waikoloa would pay 150 CI pts for a week during anytime of the year.
a CI member using their CI points to make a CI reservation at HGVC wiakoloa would take between 220 pts and 250 CI points, depending on the time of year, that 50%- 75% more points!!

this is in contrast to the HGVC using only 5000 HGVC pts to reserve a 2 bd at most CI resorts instead of using 7000 pts to reserve a HGVC resort. 

And basically, we are offered 4 HGVC locations, Orlando, LV, Hawaii & South Beach.  Since trading into Orlando & Vegas is so easy. It makes no sense at all to use CI-HGVC to do those trades, and South beach has limited appeal. So that leaves only the two hawaii locations ( yes I know there are several resorts at each location) for CI members to choose from.


----------



## smbrannan (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm with tashamen on this one.  I'm a CI member who sees minimal value in the HGVC locations offered to CI members.  

The limited expansion of CI locations over the past several years has been quite disappointing.



tashamen said:


> I am being honest - and sincere in the question.  How do you know any more than I do what the more than 30,000 CI members think about HGVC (or anything else)?  There are lots of us who are simply not interested in the HGVC locations.  Whether it's a minority or not I have no idea as I don't have the kind of inside information that you seem to allude to.


----------



## chester1122 (Jun 27, 2009)

Bill I too am a CI member.  I saw somewhere on here that you able to use a studio CI unit in 11.  How did you do that?


----------



## Bill4728 (Jun 27, 2009)

chester1122 said:


> Bill I too am a CI member.  I saw somewhere on here that you able to use a studio CI unit in 11.  How did you do that?


I've been a CI member for many years and a II member since 1995. So I asked II if I could bring my CI into II. In 2002, they let me do that. Since then I've been trading my CI with II. 

This year I deposited 2 studio weeks from CI ( in oct) with II, one  got me  a great trade, Oct studio at Whistler for a 2 bed in Nov at Newport coast.   The other studio I still have as a pending request.


----------



## chester1122 (Jun 27, 2009)

So, newer members won't be able to access 11? Thanks for the reply.


----------

