# Tug weekly rant



## TUGBrian

Sorry, this week has worn on my last nerve and its only tuesday!:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cant-sell-timeshare.html


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## DeniseM

If I correct your spelling will it push you completely off the edge?


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## TUGBrian

not at all...but I did run the spell check twice?  (although I have edited a few things since)  uploaded the latest copy...even google spelling says its clean!


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## DeniseM

"No one" is 2 words


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GrayFal

DeniseM said:


> "No one" is 2 words
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"cant" is can't


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## rhonda

> That is fine, *ill* let you use some simple tools here to fact check for yourself!


Should be _I'll_ ?


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## HatTrick

A few more?


No one cares that you still owe thousands of dollars left on your loan!

by a ginormous (yes *i* know *its* not a word) factor.

Well for *starers*, you are reading this article

and know that *its* a buyers market!

*Lets* face it folks:

so folks *cant* say I'm being unfair

*Its* not going to be a fun or quick process for you


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## Kathleen

Dear TUGgers,

I do not care if a posting is imperfect. I care about the content.

Kathleen


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## TUGBrian

Kathleen said:


> Dear TUGgers,
> 
> I do not care if a posting is imperfect. I care about the content.
> 
> Kathleen



im in this camp as well, but I dont mind at all correcting the spelling or grammar in an article thats published!


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## pedro47

Rant on Brain, your rant is good.  It is the truth.


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## winnipiseogee

THANK-YOU!

I've just copied and pasted your rant and sent it along to a dozen acquaintances.  

We have a large timeshare resort right near our home and lots of us locals own at the property so we can use the facilities. 

When people found out I bought my 2 weeks on ebay they all contact me about helping them sell.  Somehow I become an @&$hole for telling them what the resale market is like.    Some people have reacted quite violently when I told them what weeks sell for.

Since you aren't neighbors with all these folks I can now blame you :rofl:

Thanks for explaining so bluntly and concisely!


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## Rent_Share

TUGBrian said:


> im in this camp as well, but I dont mind at all correcting the spelling or grammar in an article thats published!



You might want to get that apostrophe key fixed  :whoopie:


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## csxjohn

Good article Brian.  Sometimes I sit here scratching my head wondering what some of these people are thinking. 

I see this everyday and even respond to some Craig's List sellers who are priced way over the top.

Now I can just link them this article.


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## ace2000

Whaaaat? You mean my timeshare is no longer worth what I paid for it ???


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## rickandcindy23

Love the article.  

It's very clear that upfront-fee companies lie to get the listing and do nothing to sell the timeshare, but people believe want they want to believe.  If only everyone who owns a timeshare, or plans to buy a time, could read that article.  

I am actually trying to convince my fellow board members at a Colorado resort that we shouldn't expect $4,000 for a ski week.  We had an owner offer $3,000 for one of the ski weeks, and the vote was to turn him down and counter with $4,000 (asking $5K).  

I don't know where they are getting that value, but I paid well under $900 on eBay for our ski weeks at the same resort.


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## csxjohn

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...I am actually trying to convince my fellow board members at a Colorado resort that we shouldn't expect $4,000 for a ski week.  We had an owner offer $3,000 for one of the ski weeks, and the vote was to turn him down and counter with $4,000 (asking $5K).
> 
> I don't know where they are getting that value, but I paid well under $900 on eBay for our ski weeks at the same resort.



Someone is willing to pay $3,000 for a unit that you paid under $900 for and your fellow board members won't accept it.

Brian's going to pull his hair out over this one.  It's not just the uneducated masses who are in dream world but people running resort BODs.


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## rickandcindy23

csxjohn said:


> Someone is willing to pay $3,000 for a unit that you paid under $900 for and your fellow board members won't accept it.
> 
> Brian's going to pull his hair out over this one.  It's not just the uneducated masses who are in dream world but people running resort BODs.



Oh, John, I know.  I don't like to argue with the president because he is a very nice guy and he is also really, really smart.  But I know timeshare more than almost anyone in this state, and I chose not to argue when I should have insisted that we take the $3,000.  Now we have made the prospective buyer angry, and now he will not pay the $3K he originally offered.  

Playing hardball with a person who wants a bargain at $3K seems nonsensical to me.  But that's me.  

So I am offering my two ski weeks in the next newsletter for $3,000 each.  Yes, I am definitely doing that. :rofl:


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## Rent_Share

csxjohn said:


> Someone is willing to pay $3,000 for a unit that you paid under $900 for and your fellow board members won't accept it.



IMHO the price difference is a reflection of a certain portion of the population unwilling to deal on eBay which (as discussed many times here) drives eBay prices to the bare minimum and certain buyers willing to pay a premium for the privilege of buying directly from the resort.

There was a poster who was relieved to have found  craigslist mitigating his fear of eBay


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## TUGBrian

Rent_Share said:


> You might want to get that apostrophe key fixed  :whoopie:



the weird part is that the spellchecker does not identify arent/isnt/wont/doesnt etc as incorrect words for me.


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## TUGBrian

and yes, i think its completely absurd for a HOA to turn down a legitimate offer for an existing owner in good standing to take over an unused week.

heck if there are that many, you should be thrilled to give them away to existing owners so you can now collect MFs on those intervals.


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## csxjohn

arent isnt wont doesnt.  That's strange.  I just used the spell check on the right and it wants to correct three of the four. Wont must be a  word of its own.

I also agree that getting the units into the hands of willing bill payers should be very hing on the list of priorities.


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## TUGBrian

also, implemented all the suggested changes above to the current article.


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## rhonda

Brian,

Is it possible to remove the ad that appears between the sections, "Your price is ridiculous!" and "How do you know my price is ridiculous?"  Interpreting the ad's purpose from that of the screen captures (sales listings for Pagosa) leaves a fuzzy picture.  One wonders of the ad was part of the article?

Also ... still having trouble with "cant" -- both in the document title and the metadata (appearing as the webpage title to the browser).

Thx!


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## TUGBrian

can't words have been fixed


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## csxjohn

The ad choices ad in the middle of the article is kind of strange as rhonda suggests.

One of the ads I'm seeing appears to be from an upfront fee company that you warn against.


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## TUGBrian

the google ad box serves up different ads for different visitors...for example when I visit its an ad for timeshare resale closings.

as with any google ad, if you see an upfront fee company or pcc or the like...please email me at tug@tug2.net with the URL and I can add it to the block list.

I try to do a regular job of clipping these off, but sometimes they sneak in.


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## TUGBrian

you should see that ad for scammymcscammerson.com disappear here shortly.


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## HatTrick

csxjohn said:


> arent isnt wont doesnt.  That's strange.  I just used the spell check on the right and it wants to correct three of the four. Wont must be a word of its own.



It's a word as well as a contraction.


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## csxjohn

HatTrick said:


> It's a word as well as a contraction.



I'm curious, what is it a contraction of?  

Won't, what a strange word. I know I've seen and probably used it but I can't make two words out of it.  

I know it means "will not" but how did the wo get in there?


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## HatTrick

Abbreviation of wollnot or woll + not, negations of archaic form of will.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/won't


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## csxjohn

HatTrick said:


> Abbreviation of wollnot or woll + not, negations of archaic form of will.
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/won't



Very nice, thank you.  I remember thinking about that word when in school but never really looked into it.  Funny how a thread can do that to a person.


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## dioxide45

Great article. I am not a grammar guru, but the one thing that bugs me is two spaces after a period. I am surprised that is actually possible, since HTML is supposed to ignore double spaces. Extra effort must have been put in to make sure both spaces appeared after a period?

Two spaces after a period is unnecessary and is a relic of the typewriter and fixed width fonts. With today's true type fonts, two spaces after a period is an extra key stroke that is not needed.

When typing or proofing anything now, I always use the Find and Replace function in MS Word to replace <space><space> with just <space> to make sure there are no arrant periods with two spaces after them.

I also notice in the article several arrant CAPITALIZED letters. Like in the following. There is no reason for these to be capitalized that I know of.



> In nearly all of our other articles we focus on the process of selling, and give you our suggestions and proven techniques to give you the best chance at selling your *T*imeshare on the *R*esale market.


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## TUGBrian

double space at the end of a sentence is just how its always been done (for me anyway)...its just formatted that way, nothing special is done to make it appear...just two spaces afterwards =)


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## csxjohn

I have always used two spaces at the end of a sentence whether it's a ., ?, or !.  Always have, always will.

I have the time for the extra key stroke.  Others may not.


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## csxjohn

For the life of me I can't find this article without using the link in post #1.

If it's over there on the other side of TUG I can't find it.  I think I've searched every help article over there but I'm still missing it.

I'd like to be able to find it once I can't find this thread any longer.


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## dioxide45

csxjohn said:


> For the life of me I can't find this article without using the link in post #1.
> 
> If it's over there on the other side of TUG I can't find it.  I think I've searched every help article over there but I'm still missing it.
> 
> I'd like to be able to find it once I can't find this thread any longer.



It doesn't look like a link to it has been added to the main Advice page, at least not that I can see.


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## Timeshare Von

csxjohn said:


> I have always used two spaces at the end of a sentence whether it's a ., ?, or !.  Always have, always will.
> 
> I have the time for the extra key stroke.  Others may not.



The proper way to "type" was taught back in the 60's and 70's.  I remember taking two years of typing as my mom said "A good secretary will never go hungry.  Learn to type and you will never be without a job."  My have times have changed.

Everything about formatting typed documents were taught back then.  Today with computers and the internet, I do not think any attention is paid to how things looks when typed.

And yes, at the end of a period, it was taught "space  space" before going into the next sentence.


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## CO skier

dioxide45 said:


> ... I also notice in the article several arrant CAPITALIZED letters. Like in the following. There is no reason for these to be capitalized that I know of.



One thing that bugs me is when people use misspelled words and sentence fragments to correct other's use of the English language. 


ETA ... and conclude a sentence with a preposition.


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## DeniseM

I asked our high school word processing teacher about 2 spaces at the end of a sentence, and she said that 2 spaces is still the "correct" way to type text.  I still use it myself - it's more readable.


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## dioxide45

CO skier said:


> One thing that bugs me is when people use misspelled words and sentence fragments to correct other's use of the English language.
> 
> 
> ETA ... and conclude a sentence with a preposition.



Ahhh, we all have our pet peeves I guess...

I read another article about two spaces after a period that was pro double space. Apparently, typesetters started to use single spaces as a way to save space and reduce expense. In a 500 page novel all those extra spaces could be a few pages. So a one to two percent savings on paper costs could be significant when you are printing tens of thousands of books. It really has nothing to do with typewriters or fonts. There is no right or wrong way. I just prefer to use a single space. Others can do whatever they want.

I will point out though to those using a double space in any of their posts on TUG. Your double space is being removed anyway by the browser since HTML ignores multiple spaces. So happily double click that space bar, it won't bother me as I won't have to see it in your posts.


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## dioxide45

DeniseM said:


> I asked our high school word processing teacher about 2 spaces at the end of a sentence, and she said that 2 spaces is still the "correct" way to type text.  I still use it myself - it's more readable.



Do you have trouble reading the TUG forums with all the single spaces?


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## DeniseM

dioxide45 said:


> Do you have trouble reading the TUG forums with all the single spaces?



I have trouble reading everything!   I'm having cataract surgery next week...


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## rickandcindy23

DeniseM said:


> I have trouble reading everything!   I'm having cataract surgery next week...



Oh my goodness, just before Christmas?  Good luck with it.  I have heard really great things.  My mother-in-law, Rick's step-mom, had cataract surgery recently and no longer wears glasses.  She is 85!  No glasses!  How about that?  I asked if she had lasiks (sp?) surgery done at the same time, and she said no.  Rick thinks otherwise.  

Helen claims her eyes were always good until about 15 years ago.  I always remember her with glasses, but she insists she didn't wear them until recently. We really didn't see her much from 1985-2004, if you are wondering why I wouldn't have been sure about this, it's because Rick and his dad were estranged for many years.


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## DeniseM

Hi Cindy - Yes, since I'm a teacher, it's the best time for me to do it.  Then I have two weeks to adjust, before I have to go back to work.

I will still have bad vision, and wear glasses, but it will be a lot better than it is now.


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## dioxide45

CO skier said:


> One thing that bugs me is when people use misspelled words and sentence fragments to correct other's use of the English language.
> 
> 
> ETA ... and conclude a sentence with a preposition.



Interesting, just like the two space vs. one space rule, there is a lot of discussion about why ending a sentence with a proposition is not necessarily wrong.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ending+a+sentence+with+a+preposition+is+not+wrong&oq=ending+a+sentence+with+a+preposition+is+not+wrong&aqs=chrome..69i57.9053j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8


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## csxjohn

TUGBrian said:


> Sorry, this week has worn on my last nerve and its only tuesday!:
> 
> http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cant-sell-timeshare.html



after thinking more about this it makes me realize that a very small percentage of TS owners ever find TUG.

If that is true, are folks out there paying the high prices that owners are asking?

I look daily for a 2Br at a resort I own and I see prices ranging from $1,500 to $10,000.  On one site I visit they have posted that the one listed for $1,500 has been sold for that amount.  I saw one on eBay go for around $1,500 with closing and a years use.

I know there's no real way of finding out but I just wonder if TSs are being sold to those who don't do any on-line research or are they all just sitting there?

Brian stated that you're not selling them because you're priced too high and I can see that being the case if you price it too high here or on eBay but what about other places where all the listed prices are very high?  I see the one I mentioned frequently listed between $4,000 and $8,000.

If you don't know about TUG and you don't look at eBay do you buy a timeshare?  People are tricked into paying large fees to get out of timeshares.  Are there people out there successfully selling (re-sale) timeshares for high prices?

Just some random thoughts after doing my daily search.


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## TUGBrian

I find that the ebay market is/has been taken over by brokers/charities/donation companies/etc...this means that most if not all of these properties were likely given over to said companies for a hefty sum (upfront too).

it does amaze me how many folks go from trying to sell their timeshare at say "50% of what they paid"...to "ill never be able to sell this thing so let me fork over money to this company that says they can get rid of it for me"

If folks are so eager to make that jump to the negative (ie paying a fee)...how do more of them not attempt to give it away?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Timeshare Von said:


> The proper way to "type" was taught back in the 60's and 70's.  I remember taking two years of typing as my mom said "A good secretary will never go hungry.  Learn to type and you will never be without a job."  My have times have changed.
> 
> Everything about formatting typed documents were taught back then.  Today with computers and the internet, I do not think any attention is paid to how things looks when typed.
> 
> And yes, at the end of a period, it was taught "space  space" before going into the next sentence.


The rationale for the space-space was the every character on a typewriter had the same width (proportional fonts, like courier).  That meant that the space at the start of a sentence was the same as the space between periods, which made reading much harder.  With non-proportional fonts that is less of an issue.  

You might also notice that most web pages remove the double space at the beginning of a sentence.  I'm still a habitual space-space typer, and I"m doing it as I enter this text.  But if you look at this text as it gets displayed on your browser, you will see that the double spacing is replaced with a single space.  

******

Regarding secretaries and always having a job if you know how to type.  When I took my first job in an engineering in 1974, where we produced reports and correspondence almost exclusively, my salary was about $1400/month.  Meanwhile a Clerk/Typist B, which was the standard clerical typing position, earned $500/month, about 35% of the salary of an entry level engineer with master's degree.  In a reasonably productive office there was typically one typist for every three engineers.

Sixteen years later, after the advent of word processing, the company I was with was hiring engineers coming out of school with a masters degree for about $45,000 per year.  The typist position was now a "word processor" and the standard wage for a competent word processor was about $35,000, or about three fourths of the wage for the engineer with masters degree coming out of school.  And we were employing one word processor for every ten engineers.

Compared with the typist, the word processor was vastly more efficient, and had significantly greater job responsibilities, as they had become the people managing document production and playing a more significant role in editing.  The salaries paid had also gone up accordingly, and we were always looking for word processors with greater and greater skills who could assume increasing amounts of the document production load.

The advice of "learn to type and you will never go hungry" is still valid at its core.  But it changed to "learn document production and you will never go hungry."  And now, with information being much more available on-line instead of on paper, it's probably more like "learn information presentation and you will never go hungry".

And really, information display is what it has been about all along.  There will always be a demand for a person who can ready information for display, in whatever the technology is at that time.


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## CO skier

dioxide45 said:


> ... there is a lot of discussion about why ending a sentence with a proposition is not necessarily wrong.



... never thought of that.  Is this a good way to pick-up women?


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## Timeshare Von

TUGBrian said:


> <<snipped>>
> 
> If folks are so eager to make that jump to the negative (ie paying a fee)...how do more of them not attempt to give it away?



Just throwing good money at the problem as if paying to make it go away will make it so.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

CO skier said:


> ... never thought of that.  Is this a good way to pick-up women?



Sure ... if it's someone you want to be with.


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## BJRSanDiego

*Good article*

That's a good article, Brian.


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