# Bringing attention to request for Worldmark subforum



## uscav8r

BLUF: Worldmark is a substantial TS system, but any WM threads/posts are buried in the Wyndham forum. I see a need and desire for a dedicated WM sub forum within the current Wyndham forum. 


The backstory and discussion may be found on this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193818

I've tried emails and/or PMs to various admins but have not gotten any feedback/response.

How can something like this be accomplished?


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## DeniseM

There probably isn't enough volume to justify a separate forum at this time


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## uscav8r

DeniseM: Your poll on TS ownership has WM as the 4th largest system in terms of TUG member ownership (I do not count the independents which each work differently). There seems to be more WM traffic than say Diamond.

If you need volunteers to move Worldmark posts to the sub-forum as they pop-up (and for historical ones as well), I will raise my hand!


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## Rent_Share

Diamond was mixed with everything else.


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## geekette

There are a lot of mini-systems mixed in with others; it would be a major ordeal to give every ownership its own forum, especially when those kinds of things exist on other boards already.

I do love that a volunteer has emerged.  Another helpful Tugger.  Go figure!


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## uscav8r

Rent_Share said:


> Diamond was mixed with everything else.



And interestingly it has its own sub-forum now...


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## uscav8r

geekette said:


> There are a lot of mini-systems mixed in with others; it would be a major ordeal to give every ownership its own forum, especially when those kinds of things exist on other boards already.
> 
> I do love that a volunteer has emerged.  Another helpful Tugger.  Go figure!



http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58560

It's hard to call Worldmark, with 250,000+ members with dozens of resorts a "mini" system. 12% of responding TUGers are WM owners per the ownership poll, which is slightly more than Disney and Diamond combined.

And both Disney and Diamond have either its own forum or sub forum. 

BTW, It's easy to volunteer when one is motivated! I am all about info sharing and bridging  stovepipes and gaps.


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## Bill4728

I understand that WM and Wyndham have very different systems but since they all are run by Wyn, it seems to me that they should be together.  I'm most concerned for Newbees which think since they bought from Wyndham that they own a Wyn TS even if it a WM TS.   

That said, all people posting on that board should take care to title their questions with WM if it is a WM question.


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## vacationhopeful

Bill4728 said:


> I understand that WM and Wyndham have very different systems but since they all are run by Wyn, it seems to me that they should be together.  I'm most concerned for Newbees which think since they bought from Wyndham that they own a Wyn TS even if it a WM TS.
> 
> That said, all people posting on that board should take care to title their questions with WM if it is a WM question.



*TUGBrian* - recently on TUG the Shell Resorts have been LUMPED into the Wyndham section. 

The real issue is while the CORPORATE OWNER may be labelled as "Wyndham" for all three of these timeshare systems, the resorts (mostly) and POINT systems are not one -- the rules are VERY, VERY different. By having a Shell newbie reading about buying or booking with 154,000 Wyndham points where the average reservation for a week is 2150 points. Or the Worldmark system owners can belong to BOTH RCI and II, while Shell is currently only II and almost all Wyndham points is RCI except for the 5 original II resorts owners still have II accounts. Need I remind everyone of these systems have different HOUSEKEEPING credits or charges or tokens; and let us not forget reservations costs and fees. Or USE YEARS (or the similar) terms each computer system uses - quarterly for some, yearly or monthly. Guest fees? Logon in procedures. 1-800 numbers. Booking exchanges. Borrowing or banking points? Plus, there are 2 systems with HOME RESORTs or is it HOME CLUBS? While the 3rd system, has none ... despite what eBAY forces owners to list.

I truly do not want to label every posts as either Wyndham points rules or Shell points rules or this is Worldmark rules. These are entirely as different as II is from RCI as different as DAE or TPI.

Please setup the different sub forums - the corporate umbrella of Wyndham can't get these 3 timeshare systems into ONE computer system - why is TUG trying to force it all into ONE FORUM?


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## DeniseM

Bill cannot set up new forums, nor can any Mod - that's a question for TUGBrian.

However, as has been previously stated, there doesn't seem to be enough volume to justify additional forums - but it's not my call.


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## uscav8r

DeniseM said:


> Bill cannot set up new forums, nor can any Mod - that's a question for TUGBrian.
> 
> However, as has been previously stated, there doesn't seem to be enough volume to justify additional forums - but it's not my call.



I figured as much. 

I'm not sure of the best way to reach TUGBrian. I already tried a TUG email, but I figure he is a pretty busy guy and can't respond to all emails. Perhaps a PM, but that might get buried as well.

Perhaps one or more of the mods could also reach out to him for me as a back up? 

Vacationhopeful's points are also quite valid.

BTW, I am not looking for a full forum for WM (or Shell per Linda's suggestion) commensurate with Disney, Hyatt, Wyndham, etc. I figure WM (and Shell) would be sub-forums UNDER the Wyndham master forum, just as Diamond is a sub-forum of "All Other Timeshare Systems."


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## DeniseM

I am quite sure that TUG Brian is aware of your request...


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## Rent_Share

There are certain things that remain because they have always been that way,


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## TUGBrian

we simply dont add forums for every individual system as that would make the TUGBBS ridiculously complex and convoluted.

noone is arguing they arent separate systems...but if we had a forum for every individual timeshare entity...its just not realistic.

ill look into it and see if a subforum is appropriate...but just to be frank...im not going to add one just because a few folks think it should be added if there isnt a legitimate benefit (ie traffic on both) to warrant it.

just going off a quick search, it shows less than 20 posts a month (going back a few months) related to worldmark.


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## sue1947

As I've said before, the best information on Worldmark is at www.wmowners.com.  Regardless of whether Brian decides to add a separate forum, you will find more information at that site.  Example:  By the time this thread came out here on July 5:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195079, the same issue had been discussed and debated in 2 threads starting June 20 and June 28 on wmowners.  There are some who frequent both sites, but most of the substantive stuff is posted there.  
There are a couple of you who are vehemently against that site because you don't agree with the opinions of some who post there.  I don't really understand that, but everybody is free to express their opinion and if you disagree, speak up.   The site also leads the charge in trying to get an independent elected to the Board of Directors (something Fred has strongly opposed in the past).  

Sue


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## cotraveller

sue1947 said:


> The site also leads the charge in trying to get an independent elected to the Board of Directors (something Fred has strongly opposed in the past).
> 
> Sue



This is taking this thread completely off topic and probably belongs elsewhere, but since you brought up the subject - 

I don't oppose you trying to get an independent elected, I'm waiting for you state a platform for what you will try to accomplish if you achieve your independent board goal.  I have made that request several times, including in my comments about WorldMark politics in the closing post on my Blog in February, 2012 (http://www.wmtsinfo.com/wmwords/).


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## Born2Travel

We own Worldmark and have never had a problem with not having a separate forum on TUG.   I read at WMownersdotcom and find everything I need there.  I really don't need yet another forum to read.   Just flip over to the wmowners site when I'm done reading TUG - very simple.   And I see the OP is posting there as well.


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## geekette

uscav8r said:


> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58560
> 
> It's hard to call Worldmark, with 250,000+ members with dozens of resorts a "mini" system. 12% of responding TUGers are WM owners per the ownership poll, which is slightly more than Disney and Diamond combined.
> 
> And both Disney and Diamond have either its own forum or sub forum.



It's hard to call Bluegreen a mini-system, but it is.  Not sure that WM is so much larger.  Dozens of properties, hundreds of thousands of members.  The difference is ??

Not sure where you get your "12% of responding Tuggers", but if it's from a poll, keep in mind that not everyone responds to polls, and possibly all the minis were not there to choose from (if BG gets left out, I can't vote).  So that would be, "of those responding to the poll, 12% ..."

Brian calls the shots - if the volume doesn't justify it, the volume doesn't justify it.


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## ronparise

sue1947 said:


> As I've said before, the best information on Worldmark is at www.wmowners.com.  Regardless of whether Brian decides to add a separate forum, you will find more information at that site.  Example:  By the time this thread came out here on July 5:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195079, the same issue had been discussed and debated in 2 threads starting June 20 and June 28 on wmowners.  There are some who frequent both sites, but most of the substantive stuff is posted there.
> There are a couple of you who are vehemently against that site because you don't agree with the opinions of some who post there.  I don't really understand that, but everybody is free to express their opinion and if you disagree, speak up.   The site also leads the charge in trying to get an independent elected to the Board of Directors (something Fred has strongly opposed in the past).
> 
> Sue



Sue

I dont think there is any question that WMowners provides the good information, and I for one appreciate the historical perspective (ie how can you know where you are going, unless you know where you have been)

Also Fred's site provides good information and its indexed so you can quickly find what you are looking for,

From my perspective the problem with Fred's site is that it doesnt provide opinion. and the problem with WMowners is that opinion provided is the opinion of the "old guard" . There doesnt seem to be room for anything new. 

Maybe its just me, but anything Ive ever said there (opinion wise) has been shouted down.  An interesting  example is my post this morning regarding the Avenue Plaza Resort (a place that I know well) A member of the old guard found it necessary to post that one fact I posted was "odd" thereby calling into question all my facts  (I may be odd but the facts are the facts)

Its for this reason; the stale nature of WMowners opinion, and the knee jerk response that anything someone new might say, must be wrong, that I think another place to go for opinion is desirable.

by the way, here is one of the private messages I received from a WMowners member regarding one of my comments that might help you understand my attitude.  and i quote

"{** Censored **} YOU"


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## geekette

Wow, lovely people ...  



ronparise said:


> by the way, here is one of the private messages I received from a WMowners member regarding one of my comments that might help you understand my attitude.  and i quote
> 
> "{** Censored **} YOU"


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## Rent_Share

You are welcome


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## sue1947

ronparise said:


> Sue
> 
> 
> Also Fred's site provides good information and its indexed so you can quickly find what you are looking for,



My reference to Fred's lack of credibility has nothing to do with his site.  Rather, he lost me with his over the top campaign against Phillip Abdouch (PA) when he ran for the Board many years ago. Fred's assertion was that PA should be disqualified because he rented out some of his reservations i.e. he saw that as a conflict of interest.  At the same time, he saw nothing wrong with Wyndham employees serving on the Board that oversees the work Wyndham does; pretty much the definition of conflict of interest.   The whole thing was so ridiculous that I ignored anything he has said since.  

Fred, if you have a question about a candidacy; ask that candidate.  Posting a question on a blog and expecting others to even know about it, much less read it, isn't reasonable.

As you said, this is off topic and my last post on the issue.

Sue


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## Beefnot

TUGBrian said:


> we simply dont add forums for every individual system as that would make the TUGBBS ridiculously complex and convoluted.
> 
> noone is arguing they arent separate systems...but if we had a forum for every individual timeshare entity...its just not realistic.
> 
> ill look into it and see if a subforum is appropriate...but just to be frank...im not going to add one just because a few folks think it should be added if there isnt a legitimate benefit (ie traffic on both) to warrant it.
> 
> just going off a quick search, it shows less than 20 posts a month (going back a few months) related to worldmark.


 


TUGBrian said:


> we simply dont add forums for every individual system as that would make the TUGBBS ridiculously complex and convoluted.
> 
> noone is arguing they arent separate systems...but if we had a forum for every individual timeshare entity...its just not realistic.
> 
> ill look into it and see if a subforum is appropriate...but just to be frank...im not going to add one just because a few folks think it should be added if there isnt a legitimate benefit (ie traffic on both) to warrant it.
> 
> just going off a quick search, it shows less than 20 posts a month (going back a few months) related to worldmark.


 
If traffic is a primary determinant of sub-forums, then we should get rid of all the Exchanging sub-forums.  



sue1947 said:


> As I've said before, the best information on Worldmark is at www.wmowners.com. Regardless of whether Brian decides to add a separate forum, you will find more information at that site. Example: By the time this thread came out here on July 5: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195079, the same issue had been discussed and debated in 2 threads starting June 20 and June 28 on wmowners. There are some who frequent both sites, but most of the substantive stuff is posted there.


 
True, but there are also a number of Disney forums, however we do have one here that people frequent.


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## DeniseM

Beefnot said:


> If traffic is a primary determinant of sub-forums, then we should get rid of all the Exchanging sub-forums.



The exchanging sub-forums are not standard forums - they are "ask the exchange company Rep." forums, and are actually moderated by company Reps., so you are comparing apples to oranges.


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## TUGBrian

along those lines...if you get a worldmark official presence willing to participate here, ill give you any forum you like =)


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> Sue
> 
> Its for this reason; the stale nature of WMowners opinion, and the knee jerk response that anything someone new might say, must be wrong, that I think another place to go for opinion is desirable.






sue1947 said:


> Fred, if you have a question about a candidacy; ask that candidate. Posting a question on a blog and expecting others to even know about it, much less read it, isn't reasonable.
> 
> Sue



Posting a comment contrary to wmowners mantra anywhere gets treated as Ron pointed out.  When WorldMark comments or questions are posted here, more often than not the response is "_check out wmowners for that info_".  It seems like there is a reluctance to post on any controversial  or even run of the mill WorldMark subjects here where contrary opinions might be offered. Could that be the reason a WorldMark sub-forum is not wanted here by some of you?  You don't want contrary opinions appearing where you have no control?

Even though you claim "_The whole thing was so ridiculous that I ignored anything he has said since_" you still reply when I post something . It's obvious you didn't read what I posted on my blog, but you chose to reply anyway.  I didn't mention any candidate in the post I referenced, I made a request for information from wmowners.  Not information about any individual candidate, information about the overall objective.  That request still stands as it has for quite a few years now.  

You may not have known about or read my comments on my blog about WorldMark politics, but others certainly did.


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## BellaWyn

TUGBrian said:


> along those lines...if you get a worldmark official presence willing to participate here, ill give you any forum you like =)


Would be interesting to know exactly what the qualifier(s) would be for a "Worldmark Official presence"


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## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> The exchanging sub-forums are not standard forums - they are "ask the exchange company Rep." forums, and are actually moderated by company Reps., so you are comparing apples to oranges.


 
Fair point.  How about the following subforums.  Is this apples to apples, and what would be the rationale that they make more sense than Worldmark?


*Ratings of Timeshare Related Businesses*
*Non-traditional Interval Ownership*


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## DeniseM

Beefnot said:


> Fair point.  How about the following subforums.  Is this apples to apples, and what would be the rationale that they make more sense than Worldmark?
> 
> 
> *Ratings of Timeshare Related Businesses*
> *Non-traditional Interval Ownership*



Ratings serves a specific function - it's also not a standard forum, it clearly does not fit in any existing forum.

We don't want non-traditional posts mixed in with other threads, because there is no good fit for them in another forum.


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## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> Ratings serves a specific function - it's also not a standard forum, it clearly does not fit in any existing forum.
> 
> We don't want non-traditional posts mixed in with other threads, because there is no good fit for them in another forum.


 

Ok I guess. An equally compelling rationale then can be applied to a Worldmark sub-forum: 

"We don't want Worldmark posts mixed in with other Wyndham threads, because other than being owned by Wyndham, it is a completely distinct system. And because Wyndham's system is so overwhelmingly large, it crowds out threads from its other systems (Shell and Worldmark)."

There we go, how about a sub-folder for *All Other Wyndham-Owned Systems *or *Worldmark and Shell Systems*? I think we have a solution.


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## cotraveller

On the TUG poll of system ownership, http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58560, WorldMark places fourth among the named resorts with 12.21% of the votes.  It ranks behind Marriott (20.95%), Wyndham (16.28%), and Starwood (13.15%), all of which have their own forums. Following WorldMark in the poll are Hilton (6.96%) and Disney (6.28%) which also have their own forums, and Diamond/Sunterra (5.51%) which has a sub-forum.  

Having a forum or sub-forum for systems that show less than half of the ownership of WorldMark among forum participants would make it seem that there are sufficient members to support a WorldMark forum or sub-forum. With its own dedicated area I suspect that the volume of posts concerning WorldMark would increase.  As it stands now and has been pointed out, WorldMark topics are often buried in the Wyndham forum and missed.


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## DeniseM

Fred - before the other groups got their own forums, their volume of posts increased FIRST.  

For instance, Starwood was mixed in with the "All Other" forum, but the volume of posts about Starwood grew so large, that we earned our own forum...


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## cotraveller

DeniseM said:


> Fred - before the other groups got their own forums, their volume of posts increased FIRST.
> 
> For instance, Starwood was mixed in with the "All Other" forum, but the volume of posts about Starwood grew so large, that we earned our own forum...



So the obvious solution is that we need to start flooding the Wydham forum with WorldMark posts. Then we will get our own forum? 

I rest my case.  It is not my forum to change, only to make suggestions. If a separate WorldMark area is created I will post there.  If not I will mark my posts and replies in the Wyndham area with WorldMark in the title as appropriate.


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## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> Fred - before the other groups got their own forums, their volume of posts increased FIRST.
> 
> For instance, Starwood was mixed in with the "All Other" forum, but the volume of posts about Starwood grew so large, that we earned our own forum...


 

You mean the other sub-forums that you and I debated all saw their volume increase first? You listed other reasons for them being separate.


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## DeniseM

Beefnot - I have been very clear about the rationale for adding forums - take it or leave it.


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## Beefnot

I'm not at all trying to be argumentative or cynical or contrarian. I do believe at least one sub-forum under Wyndham for Worldmark or Worldmark & Shell or something like that, makes sense. Whether there are 20 posts a month or 100 posts a month. I also do suspect that the volume of posts in said forum would increase.

Side Question: TUGBrian, any plans to look at those stickies in the Sightings forum and perhaps unstick a couple or three of them (the ollllddd, staaaale, and/or redundant ones). And maybe while you're at it, take some of us to Sightings & Distressed nirvana by stickifying the XYZ thread?


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## Beefnot

DeniseM said:


> Beefnot - I have been very clear about the rationale for adding forums - take it or leave it.


 

Spicy lady. Let's kiss and make up. Although just not sure which pair of lips...the ones on your left or right side of your neck...

I kid, I kid Denise. It's all love


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## DeniseM

Beefnot - I'm not upset with you (thus the wink.)  I'm just dishing it back to you!


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## rleigh

geekette said:


> Wow, lovely people ...




I could try to explain it, but I'll just keep it simple:

Before anyone judges and lumps together all those "lovely people," please know that you are only getting one sliver of one side of one of many complex ongoing situations and issues that go way back.

And if anyone is now scared off from the site, know that you don't have to click on the political stuff if you don't want to. It's chock-full of interesting and helpful people and info all about WM.

As for the political stuff, yes there is a group who have tried for years to accomplish making their club---our club---better and more fair for everyone. They are only trying to do what is right. Again, it involves a multitude of issues, some complex, that go way back.

As for Co. Fred, I'd like to believe the reason he doesn't support it is because he genuinely wants more info, but there have been times it appears he is actively working against wmowners, which is the part I don't understand.


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## dioxide45

I would also vote for a sub-forum for Shell and WM. I am not a Wyndham owner, but have considered looking at both programs. I won't bother to wade through the Wyndham forum to pull out threads. I have tried some searches and gave up after a slight effort.

I would agree with others that while volume may not support it now, I would expect to see an uptick in volume once the systems are segregated in their own sub-forums making it easier to sort things out.


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## dioxide45

Beefnot said:


> Side Question: TUGBrian, any plans to look at those stickies in the Sightings forum and perhaps unstick a couple or three of them (the ollllddd, staaaale, and/or redundant ones). And maybe while you're at it, take some of us to Sightings & Distressed nirvana by stickifying the XYZ thread?



The problem in the Sightings forum is that TUGBrian is the "official" moderator. It seems that other moderators don't want to or can't take ownership of the forum. It seems that Brian only comes in to the forums in cases like this thread and isn't an active moderator on a regular basis. Busy with the day to day running of TUG. I too would like to see the stickies in the Sightings forum cleaned up, but doubt it will come any time soon...


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## TUGBrian

i already cleaned up the stickies in that forum...did it a few minutes after the request was posted.


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## ronparise

rleigh said:


> I could try to explain it, but I'll just keep it simple:
> 
> Before anyone judges and lumps together all those "lovely people," please know that you are only getting one sliver of one side of one of many complex ongoing situations and issues that go way back.
> 
> And if anyone is now scared off from the site, know that you don't have to click on the political stuff if you don't want to. It's chock-full of interesting and helpful people and info all about WM.
> 
> As for the political stuff, yes there is a group who have tried for years to accomplish making their club---our club---better and more fair for everyone. They are only trying to do what is right. Again, it involves a multitude of issues, some complex, that go way back.
> 
> As for Co. Fred, I'd like to believe the reason he doesn't support it is because he genuinely wants more info, but there have been times it appears he is actively working against wmowners, which is the part I don't understand.



Im sure what you say is true. These issues are complex, but they have also gotten personal for a lot of the folks there. They just cant abide a different opinion. They will even make up their own facts to support their positions. 

I not scared off the site, but I have been asked not to post anything there that has to do with rentals, not because rentals are not allowed in the Worldmark system, but because WMowners doesnt approve of it. One guy even said as much as he is against rentals, and he knows its going on, he just doesnt want to hear about it.  Ive always thought you should know your enemy, (keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer)  They seem to take the attitude that  if you just pretend its not there it doesnt exist


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## vacationhopeful

Sometimes the ones who PROTEST the loudest, are the ones the MOST GUILTY of that transgression. 

I don't own Worldmark and have almost no interest in those properties. But most of _11 of the newer _resorts now have some CWP/CWA inventory under their roofs (and some prior JOINT resorts - Daytona Ocean Walk & NOLA's Avenue Plaza) and I am sure, somehow, many of those units be rented out - either by Wyndham Clubs Plus/Access by applying the "60 day out rule" or by enterprising Mega-owners using their ownership.


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## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Sometimes the ones who PROTEST the loudest, are the ones the MOST GUILTY of that transgression.
> 
> I don't own Worldmark and have almost no interest in those properties. But most of those resorts now have some CWP/CWA inventory under their roofs and I am sure, somehow, many of those units be rented out - either by Wyndham Clubs Plus/Access by applying the "60 day out rule" or by enterprising Mega-owners using their ownership.



Not most, Linda, only 11


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## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Sometimes the ones who PROTEST the loudest, are the ones the MOST GUILTY of that transgression.
> 
> I don't own Worldmark and have almost no interest in those properties. But most of those resorts now have some CWP/CWA inventory under their roofs and I am sure, somehow, many of those units be rented out - either by Wyndham Clubs Plus/Access by applying the "60 day out rule" or by enterprising Mega-owners using their ownership.



Not most, Linda, only 11 new ones plus the couple is others that have been shared resorts for a while(avenue plaza and Daytona are two)


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## dioxide45

TUGBrian said:


> i already cleaned up the stickies in that forum...did it a few minutes after the request was posted.



Whoa, thanks. Guess I should have checked first before shootin my mouth off 

What are the chances of getting the XYZ thread promoted to Sticydum? It is by far the most read and replied to thread in the Sightings forum.


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## Beefnot

dioxide45 said:


> Whoa, thanks. Guess I should have checked first before shootin my mouth off
> 
> What are the chances of getting the XYZ thread promoted to Sticydum? It is by far the most read and replied to thread in the Sightings forum.



If they have that RCI sticky up there, would be great to see the II XYZ thread too, no?

And about that Worldmark and Shell sub-forum...


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## dioxide45

Beefnot said:


> If they have that RCI sticky up there, would be great to see the II XYZ thread too, no?



Whoa, ask and thou shalt receive!!!

Not sure if this happened before I mentioned it in the Subscribe for Forum thread in the Sightings forum.


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## Beefnot

Woop woop


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> Im sure what you say is true. These issues are complex, but they have also gotten personal for a lot of the folks there. They just cant abide a different opinion. They will even make up their own facts to support their positions.


That has always been true, although they are not as bad about it as they used to be.  The site has become more moderate over the years as new members have joined and old ones have dropped out.  I have had lengthy offline email discussions with several wmowners members over the years and while we would often disagree, we could have a reasonable discussion.

And then there are still those members that--


ronparise said:


> by the way, here is one of the private messages I received from a WMowners member regarding one of my comments that might help you understand my attitude. and i quote
> 
> "{** Censored **} YOU"


I received the same pm and it wouldn't surprise me if it was sent by the same individual that sent it to you.  The one to me came here on TUG which apparently does not have a bad words filter on private messages.  It came through unaltered, in large bold type.  I pretty much ignored it, chalking it up to the demonstrated immaturity level of the individual that sent it.



ronparise said:


> I not scared off the site, but I have been asked not to post anything there that has to do with rentals, not because rentals are not allowed in the WorldMark system, but because WMowners doesnt approve of it. One guy even said as much as he is against rentals, and he knows its going on, he just doesnt want to hear about it.  Ive always thought you should know your enemy, (keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer)  They seem to take the attitude that  if you just pretend its not there it doesnt exist



This is one issue that I agree with wmowners on.  I don't think rentals, especially mass rentals as have been taking place recently, are good for the club.  Restricting rentals is an item which will get little or no support here on TUG. TUG is very pro-rental as indicated by the number of people who post about and/or encourage rental activities.

Rentals have been an issue for WorldMark owners for many years and is one I have been vocal about.  I was involved in some of the early discussions with WorldMark management about changes in the guidelines which would curtail the rental activity.  The recently implemented guideline change which only allows one name on a grouped reservation (not multiple changing names) was proposed in 2006. It was not implemented at that time because it was felt it would be too restrictive for owners who wanted to share reservations with family or friends.  Apparently this year the rentals became so out of hand and owners were complaining about it so much that it was felt that something had to be done.

The main thing I don't like concerning posting about rental activities is when you post proposed changes that you see would stop them.  Some of the ideas you have proposed as a solution to limiting rentals would be very detrimental to a lot of WorldMark owners. Wyndham is perfectly capable of coming up with changes on their own without reading about changes posted on forums.   As you say, be careful what you wish for. 



Beefnot said:


> If they have that RCI sticky up there, would be great to see the II XYZ thread too, no?
> 
> And about that Worldmark and Shell sub-forum...



About that WorldMark sub-forum, even though I said earlier I was done on that subject. (Hi DeniseM )

It has been indicated that there is insufficient volume to justify a WorldMark sub-forum.  The need has to appear before the sub-forum will, not the other way around.  A quick look at the two of the least active resort system forums shows that both Disney and DRI have averaged about 3 new threads per week over the past 8 weeks. So maybe if we get the WorldMark threads up to that level for a few months we can get the dedicated WorldMark area. Post those WorldMark questions and topics in the Wyndham forum, with WorldMark in the title, and we'll see where it leads.


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## LLW

TUGBrian said:


> along those lines...if you get a worldmark official presence willing to participate here, ill give you any forum you like =)



Do we have any chance of getting a Worldmark official presence here?


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## TUGBrian

feel free to announce this to your HOA's etc =)


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## LLW

TUGBrian said:


> feel free to announce this to your HOA's etc =)



Our HOA _is_ Worldmark the Club. Back when wmowners.com was first started (December 2003), and _before_ it started collecting proxies, it was banned on the official forum on the Worldmark web site, because WMO contained resale information (officially stated). For as much resale and rescission information as TUG contains, it has not faced the same fate - maybe because it has been flying low in Wyndham land, or because all Wyndham systems were mixed in? So I don't know if TUG wants to test it.


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