# Points rental message board



## GregT (Mar 29, 2011)

All,

I created a simple message board for classified ads to more easily allow people to rent points.   Please see the linked website.   The point rental format is intended to be very simple -- *please post any feedback over there, versus on TUG*.

I started it with a 90 day period and will extend it if TUGgers find it useful.  I hope it works....????

Best,

Greg

http://members.boardhost.com/MVCDPoints/index.html


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## davidn247 (Mar 29, 2011)

I am in. Thanks for taking the lead on this.




GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I created a simple message board for classified ads to try to more easily facilitate points rentals.   Please see the linked website.   The points rental format is intended to be very simple -- *please post any feedback over there, versus on TUG*.
> 
> ...


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## GregT (Apr 5, 2011)

Congrats to Tom and Ken for a successful points rental transaction!  I hope it helped!

Best,

Greg


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## GregT (May 23, 2011)

All,

It appears to be getting a decent amount of foot traffic, so I did renew it for another 180 days -- so it is good thru the end of the year.  I hope it is useful!

Best,

Greg


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## davidn247 (May 24, 2011)

Keep it going GregT! I bought 500 points the other days to extend a stay in Hawaii during Christmas. Great work...

I think also the points' rental will accelerate as we pass the dead line of June.
http://members.boardhost.com/MVCDPoints/index.html

David



GregT said:


> All,
> 
> It appears to be getting a decent amount of foot traffic, so I did renew it for another 180 days -- so it is good thru the end of the year.  I hope it is useful!
> 
> ...


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## winger (May 24, 2011)

Good work for putting this thing up Greg. Maybe I will buy some points one day.


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## kds4 (May 24, 2011)

winger said:


> Good work for putting this thing up Greg. Maybe I will buy some points one day.



I've got my request in for some 2012 points.


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## GregT (Jun 3, 2011)

All,

Just a few comments -- there have been a reasonable amount of points rentals, they appear to be around a range of $0.45 - $0.60 per point, with most in the $0.50 - $0.55 per point.   The basic assumption of remaining time to point expiration appears to be the most common denominator in pricing (and number of points transacted appears modestly important as well).  I appreciate the feedback and kind comments from the people participating in the transactions.

I admit that I am surprised that points pricing has come down as quickly as it has.  Recall that I rented points out for $0.65 per point in an experiment conducted last August or September.    I didn't expect points pricing to reach an approximate $0.50 so quickly.

As background, when I bought my Worldmark account in 2005, points rented for about 7.5 cents per credit (ie, point) and MFs were approx 5.0 cents per credit.  Over time, MFs have risen to approx 6.0 cents per credit (at least for my size account, larger accounts pay less) and credits can be rented with relative ease for also 6.0 cents per credit.   Accordingly, I reached the conclusion of why buy more WM credits if they can be rented easily and without penalty?  

Forgive the long message here, but because of the ability to rent/transfer points, those who have enrolled in DClub may find that there really isn't a reason/need to buy more Marriotts (for trading at least), if you are able to rent points for something close to the MF value over time.   Every time I look at a Marriott timeshare on eBay, I'm reaching the same conclusion, that buying it just isn't necessary unless its for personal use.    

Interesting stuff (to me at least!)

Best to all,

Greg


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## floyddl (Jun 4, 2011)

Interesting indeed.  Rest assured that Marriott will take action to remedy this situation if it adversely impacts them.  They are in business to sell points so if renting points becomes too popular they will do something to stop it.  In reality, the ease of rentals may help them sell more points.  Time will tell.


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## GregT (Jun 4, 2011)

floyddl said:


> Interesting indeed.  Rest assured that Marriott will take action to remedy this situation if it adversely impacts them.  They are in business to sell points so if renting points becomes too popular they will do something to stop it.  In reality, the ease of rentals may help them sell more points.  Time will tell.



Floyddl,

You are right, there is nothing that I am aware of that prevents Marriott from taking the transfer ability/feature away.   Others (Wyndham) have taken it away, and it is a concern of mine that Marriott will do so also.

However, I believe Marriott won't take the transfer ability away becausee I believe the use of points to make reservations benefits Marriott (because of the skim) and if people couldn't transfer points, they might be less likely to redeem their weeks for points (and be skimmed in the process).

It's all speculation of course, but interesting to me.  We'll see how the rules change in the future, and how much those new rules cost us.

Best,

Greg


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## davidn247 (Jun 4, 2011)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Just a few comments -- there have been a reasonable amount of points rentals, they appear to be around a range of $0.45 - $0.60 per point, with most in the $0.50 - $0.55 per point.   The basic assumption of remaining time to point expiration appears to be the most common denominator in pricing (and number of points transacted appears modestly important as well).  I appreciate the feedback and kind comments from the people participating in the transactions.
> 
> I admit that I am surprised that points pricing has come down as quickly as it has.  Recall that I rented points out for $0.65 per point in an experiment conducted last August or September.    I didn't expect points pricing to reach an approximate $0.50 so quickly.



First of all, thanks for facilitating the forum/board on this. Very usefull and also enriching. I have done 3 experiences and here are my conclusions:

(1) the first one (selling 50 points, 2011) was experimental and to help someone just close/book his vacations. Not too much discussion on MY price ($0.60/points paypal). Conclusion: Difference in price on this small quantity was less important to the buyer than just have the deal done (and vacations booked).

(2) the second was buying 500 points (2011) at $0.44/point, although I only needed half of them (adding days for Hawaii). The seller used your forum and announced his price ($0.44/point). I was surprised by his low pricing, especially taking into account he had the option to bank them to 2012 at that time. At that price, I just decided to buy them all.

Conclusion: some people have "orphan" points and just want to sell them to cover their costs/MFs. If not, they are risking to lose all. This trend could accelerate after banking deadline is passed (end of June 2011).

(3) the third transaction (still pending 3375 points, 2012) at $0.47/point. The seller seems to have a significant amount of weeks that he will not used. He announced a higher price ($0.55). However, I told him that my starting point is 3BR MGV at $0.37. In fact, I have 2 choices to had days to my deeded weeks in 2012: (1) convert one of my week or (2) rent some 2012 points.

I negociate to be in the middle ($0.47) and to take all the points of one full deeded week. Conclusion: price is higher than his MF and he has one deeded week to worry less about. A lot of people are just wanting to cover their MFs + small profit. They have written-off their initial investment in their head.



GregT said:


> As background, when I bought my Worldmark account in 2005, points rented for about 7.5 cents per credit (ie, point) and MFs were approx 5.0 cents per credit.  Over time, MFs have risen to approx 6.0 cents per credit (at least for my size account, larger accounts pay less) and credits can be rented with relative ease for also 6.0 cents per credit.   Accordingly, I reached the conclusion of why buy more WM credits if they can be rented easily and without penalty?
> 
> Forgive the long message here, but because of the ability to rent/transfer points, those who have enrolled in DClub may find that there really isn't a reason/need to buy more Marriotts (for trading at least), if you are able to rent points for something close to the MF value over time.   Every time I look at a Marriott timeshare on eBay, I'm reaching the same conclusion, that buying it just isn't necessary unless its for personal use.
> 
> ...



As mentionned in another post (early this week), I came to the same conclusion. Buying more deeded weeks without being able to include them in DC program is not interesting at all. Unless you are buying THE week that you want for use or can one day be included into DC (Europe, Asia, etc.).

Recently, I bought a Cypress Harbour (summer) and could not include it into DC, so I just re-sold it. MVCI makes it too complicated (no DC program, two Interval accounts, etc.).

The situation is evolving. Renting is becoming more and more the solution: becoming cheap (price per point close to MFs), flexible (all Marriotts "in theory") and, finally but most important, without long term commitment.

Interesting stuff for me too and keep the discussion going.


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## davidn247 (Jun 4, 2011)

*Renting Destination Club Points*

By the way, here is the website of GregT for renting DC points. Totally free and really starting to have traction (bookmark it for future use):

http://members.boardhost.com/MVCDPoints/index.html


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## davidn247 (Jun 5, 2011)

Does anyone use a "contract" when "renting points"? I did not use it until now but the last seller proposed one to me. Here it is attached:
GregT: feel free to put it on your website (for use by others).


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## GregT (Jun 7, 2011)

David,

I did not use a contract when I rented my points out, but I think this is an interesting addition -- I'll upload it to the gtibbitts.tripod.com website for those that wish to use it, and will leave it up to the participants to decide.

Thanks as well for the detailed information on your trades, its certainly useful to see real life transactions.

Best,

Greg


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## puckmanfl (Jun 7, 2011)

good evening/morning...

This 6 hour time change is getting to me....

Can we insert a place in the ad for expiration date of the points and Trust v Legacy points...


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## kds4 (Jun 7, 2011)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening/morning...
> 
> This 6 hour time change is getting to me....
> 
> Can we insert a place in the ad for expiration date of the points and Trust v Legacy points...



I think that is a good idea, although having just completed a rental transaction that appears to have gone smoothly with MVCI, I am curious to hear more on the significance of the difference between Trust and Legacy points for rental purposes.


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## siberiavol (Jun 7, 2011)

Could someone walk me through the process of rental of points? Who calls Marriott and what information do they need? I assume the transfer of the money is done based on the individual agreement between the parties? Is there a norm there?


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## GregT (Jun 7, 2011)

siberiavol said:


> Could someone walk me through the process of rental of points? Who calls Marriott and what information do they need? I assume the transfer of the money is done based on the individual agreement between the parties? Is there a norm there?



When I rented out my points (all negotiated via email), my renter and I agreed on the price and the number of points to be rented.   The renter sent me his full name and address, and his Marriott DClub account number (available from the VOA).  He sent me the rental payment (full payment) via PayPal and I called my Marriott VOA and had them transfer the points from my account to his account.     I also emailed my VOA with the information and cc:'d the buyer on the email so they were pretty comfortable that the process was going as advertised.  

Davidn247 has created a template that documents the transaction and I think is a good addition, because the renter still had some risk of sending the monies and then there being a delay in fulfilling the points transfer (although PayPal has some protections too -- I couldn't get the money released to me for some time -- 21 days I think?)

It's very easy, and very similar to how we do it with Worldmark (except you have to send a fax with Worldmark).

Best,

Greg


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## siberiavol (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks Greg


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## GregT (Jun 22, 2011)

All,

I've made some modifications to DavidN247's draft points rental agreement, and have uploaded it to the gtibbitts.tripod.com account.

The points rentals message board is unchanged.   I've also uploaded version 8 of the DClub points list to the tripod account.

Best to all,

Greg


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## GregT (Jun 26, 2011)

All,

I've updated the Sample Points Transfer Agreement on the gtibbitts.tripod.com, to clarify the type of Point rented (Trust or Legacy Points).

As discussed in a separate thread, it is very very important to ensure that you rent points that combine with your existing points, to avoid reservations difficulties.

*If you are trying to make a reservation using your Trust Points, then it is best to rent Trust Points.

If you are trying to make a reservation using your Legacy Points, then it is best to rent Legacy Points.*

Good luck!

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2011)

My guess is that trust points will be in short supply. Wonder if there will be a difference in rental price between trust and legacy points.


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## davidn247 (Jul 1, 2011)

*Deadline for 2011 over*

Folks,

The deadline for banking 2011 DC points is now behind.

Not sure if people were diligent about this deadline. For sure, we can expect a lot of "orphan" points (50, 75, etc) to be available in the next months for rent.

By the way, just came back from Marriott Marbella. Beautifull and pleasant.


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## GregT (Jul 7, 2011)

All,

Interesting ad/experiment going on over at the Points Rental Message Board (and this is not my ad).   The website linked is included below as my website.

There is an ad listed yesterday for 2,725 points, 2011 Usage Year (I contacted the seller to confirm specifics, including usage year -- and she is a very nice lady) available for rent at $800.   Because it is now after June 30, 2011, those points must be used in 2011.

This is interesting because it confirms a hypothesis raised in earlier posts, and is consistent with what I've seen with Worldmark point rentals.  As the expiration nears, the ask and bid prices drop accordingly.

As you can imagine, there has been a good amount of interest in this listing, considering its only been listed a day.   

Good luck to all,

Greg


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## chunkygal (Jul 8, 2011)

I am only selling them this cheaply if it works out because I really can't use them and don't want it to be wasted. 

IF I am unable to make a love connection I may just give a week away somewhere at church or my office. 

I, in general, agree with the price point of 50cpp. I look at this as a fire sale, though, as these points have to be used by 2011 end. 

I will let you know what happens. I have contacted everyone who contacted me. 

I have rented my points frequetnly on DVC. Different system, generally $10pp and never had a problem. No contracts.There are people there who have almost built a cottage industry around renting points. If you go to wdwinfo.com on the DVC boards you see an ad by a man who rents poitns same day all reosts now..not sure how he does this. I often refer my friends here to rent for vacations. 

When I spoke with Owner Services they said I can transfer my points to another DC owner or I can give them away to a third party.


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## m61376 (Jul 8, 2011)

This is an interesting thread, in that it does give some insight into potential benefits of the DC outside of trading your units in for points. 

The useable value of points that expire in less than six months really depends on inventory availability. There have been lots of posts about reservations at 12/13 months, but what's available at 2-4 months?


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## GregT (Jul 8, 2011)

m61376 said:


> This is an interesting thread, in that it does give some insight into potential benefits of the DC outside of trading your units in for points.
> 
> The useable value of points that expire in less than six months really depends on inventory availability. There have been lots of posts about reservations at 12/13 months, but what's available at 2-4 months?



Marilyn,

I was curious about this question and called Marriott VOA -- for test purposes, there was reasonable/good availability in both Hawaii and Caribbean for October and November at multiple properties.  It would have been easy for me to construct a trip to either location (especially considering its shoulder season to where I wanted to go).  I didn't ask about ski season properties, which are presumably more difficult as they are more prime.

However, what was most interesting, is that Marriott is running a discount promotion right now on Kauai Lagoons (they say because of the construction).   Apparently they publicized it in their newsletter (which I don't get yet....).

They are offering the following:

2BR IV for 1,845 points
2BR OV for 2,280 points

They didn't have any OFs, but there was plenty of availability.   I would like to reiterate a point made in Post 24 (the hyperlink) -- renting points is even more interesting when you can combine it with FlexChange or a discounted points reservation.  

At $0.30 per rented point if the point is close to expiration, you can book a week in an Island View at Kauai Lagoons for $553 in rented points.   This combination is superior to HGVC's Open Season, which would be closer to $800 for last minute rental of a 2BR, and only available within 30 days of check-in.

This combination is an example of why I believe the ability to transfer (ie rent) points is very powerful.  I also repeat another example of the power of renting points, next week I'm hosting a small family reunion in Lake Tahoe at Worldmark South Shore -- I've reserved 2 2BR units and 1 3BR unit, all booked with rented Worldmark points, all points were rented at approximately the MFs for Worldmark so not cost prohibitive.

Interesting stuff.....

Best to all,

Greg


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## puckmanfl (Jul 8, 2011)

Good afternoon...

Are they gone yet?

Puckmanfl...


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## puckmanfl (Jul 11, 2011)

good afternoon...

This points rental board rocks!!!!

Today I rented 2725 2011 pts with an expiration date of 12/31/2011.  The cost was $800 ($0.29/pt).  Used 2500 to snag  5 nites (sun-thurs..) for a 3 bedroom gv surfwatch to match my previous week 7/30-8/5.  These units rent for $600 nite on marriott.com.  In essence I snagged $3000 worth of nites for $740 worth of points.  

This is sort of a good flexchange trade!!!!

I also moved my 2012 Memorial Day surfwatch trip to a 6 day stay in July 2012 7/8-7/14...I just called my handy dandy VOA and said "Hey, what do you have in July 2012.  Snagged another 3 bedroom!!!  Now the whole family can go!!!

I know II really works too..but just no way of getting 3 bedrooms on HHI platinum season with II.  Since view doesn't matter to me...I snagged a GV July 2012 instead of OV may 2012 and I snagged 800 extra points to boot!!!!

Happy travels


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## dioxide45 (Jul 15, 2011)

Reading the exchange procedures it doesn't seem that "penalty box" points, points in a holding account, can't be transferred to another DC member. Is Marriott enforcing this provision?

Pg 17 of Exchange Procedures:


> Holding Account means an account established for purposes of depositing Exchange Points that are restored to a Member after the cancellation or modification of a confirmed reservation. Exchange Points deposited in a Member’s Holding Account shall be available for further use during that same Use Year, but the further use of such restored Exchange Points shall only be confirmed by Exchange Company for Use Periods beginning no more than sixty (60) days after the date of the request, and only if available. *Exchange Points deposited in a Holding Account may not be transferred to other Members*, banked for future use, or used for wait list requests.


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## sparty (Jul 17, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Reading the exchange procedures it doesn't seem that "penalty box" points, points in a holding account, can't be transferred to another DC member. Is Marriott enforcing this provision?
> 
> Pg 17 of Exchange Procedures:




The first reaction for a way around would be to just make the reservation in the offenders name and then use a guest certificate for the person wanting the points. 

I forgot if this is legal, can you make a reservation with points and then rent the unit to someone else, thus avoiding a pts xfer?


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## dioxide45 (Jul 17, 2011)

sparty said:


> The first reaction for a way around would be to just make the reservation in the offenders name and then use a guest certificate for the person wanting the points.
> 
> I forgot if this is legal, can you make a reservation with points and then rent the unit to someone else, thus avoiding a pts xfer?



That would be a work around, a little less flexible for the person getting the use of the points. Probably another reason these would rent for low rates.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 17, 2011)

sparty said:


> The first reaction for a way around would be to just make the reservation in the offenders name and then use a guest certificate for the person wanting the points.
> 
> I forgot if this is legal, can you make a reservation with points and then rent the unit to someone else, thus avoiding a pts xfer?






I've been making the reservations in my name, and then adding the name of the person who wants to rent my points to stay there.  I have had no problems at all doing it this way..   I am now using points in 2013 to make reservations for people who want their use in 2012.



.


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## jancurious (Jul 17, 2011)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I've been making the reservations in my name, and then adding the name of the person who wants to rent my points to stay there.  I have had no problems at all doing it this way..   I am now using points in 2013 to make reservations for people who want their use in 2012.
> .



OK....I need to ask.  What happens to these people's reservations if The TimeTraveler doesn't pay his/her maintenance fees for 2012 & 2013??  (I'm not saying you won't TimeTraveler - this is a hypothetical question)

Somehow this just doesn't seem what Marriott would allow if they knew what really was transpiring.  Almost like the people that got II exchanges and rented them out using guest certificates. (which we know is illegal)

Just my opinion.....

Jan


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## dioxide45 (Jul 17, 2011)

jancurious said:


> OK....I need to ask.  What happens to these people's reservations if The TimeTraveler doesn't pay his/her maintenance fees for 2012 & 2013??  (I'm not saying you won't TimeTraveler - this is a hypothetical question)
> 
> Somehow this just doesn't seem what Marriott would allow if they knew what really was transpiring.  Almost like the people that got II exchanges and rented them out using guest certificates. (which we know is illegal)
> 
> ...



Not sure what would happen since the points are no longer in the original delinquent owners account.


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## jancurious (Jul 18, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Not sure what would happen since the points are no longer in the original delinquent owners account.



Sure they are.  In this case TimeTraveler made the reservations in his name and added a guest certificate so the look back would be directly to the delinquent account.

Jan


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## SueDonJ (Jul 18, 2011)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I've been making the reservations in my name, and then adding the name of the person who wants to rent my points to stay there.  I have had no problems at all doing it this way..   I am now using points in 2013 to make reservations for people who want their use in 2012.





jancurious said:


> OK....I need to ask.  What happens to these people's reservations if The TimeTraveler doesn't pay his/her maintenance fees for 2012 & 2013??  (I'm not saying you won't TimeTraveler - this is a hypothetical question)...



Hmmmm.  What happens if somebody deposits a Week in II and then doesn't pay the MF when due?  Marriott doesn't require MF payments in advance, so plenty of 2012 Weeks have already been deposited for II exchanges but those MF bills won't be due and payable until Jan '12.



jancurious said:


> Somehow this just doesn't seem what Marriott would allow if they knew what really was transpiring.  Almost like the people that got II exchanges and rented them out using guest certificates. (which we know is illegal)
> 
> Just my opinion.....
> 
> Jan



The difference is in the rules for each exchange program.  II has a rule that clearly states you cannot rent an exchange, it doesn't make any difference if Marriott would or wouldn't want owners to be able to rent their II exchanges.  The DC has a vaguely-stated rule that says rentals which constitute "commercial activity" are not allowed, but they don't define how many rentals are allowed before the "commercial activity" prohibition would kick in.  Incidentally, the DC rule is very similar to a rule contained in many of the governing docs for Marriott Weeks, and folks have been renting those for years without any problem. 

Here's a related thread.


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## jancurious (Jul 18, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Hmmmm.  What happens if somebody deposits a Week in II and then doesn't pay the MF when due?  Marriott doesn't require MF payments in advance, so plenty of 2012 Weeks have already been deposited for II exchanges but those MF bills won't be due and payable until Jan '12.



I think what would happen if you don't pay your 2012 maintenance fees is that Marriott would cancel your reservations for 2012.  Now if you have traded them with II and already used the week, I'm not sure what would happen.  But if you haven't taken the vacation yet, I doubt that the week would be available.

Sue, you may be right that this falls within the scope of the rules, but I think this method of using someone else's account & being put on guest certificate with points borrowed from future years even, is a bit risky for the renter.

Jan


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## SueDonJ (Jul 18, 2011)

jancurious said:


> I think what would happen if you don't pay your 2012 maintenance fees is that Marriott would cancel your reservations for 2012.  Now if you have traded them with II and already used the week, I'm not sure what would happen.  But if you haven't taken the vacation yet, I doubt that the week would be available.
> 
> Sue, you may be right that this falls within the scope of the rules, but I think this method of using someone else's account & being put on guest certificate with points borrowed from future years even, is a bit risky for the renter.
> 
> Jan



Oh, I agree with you!  But then again, I've always thought that any private rentals carry too much risk - not limited to the cash paid - for me to be comfortable with them.  What if you rent your Week to somebody and they trash the place?  Or they have unrealistic expectations and they're unhappy with what they get?  What if you rent from somebody only to find that what you expected isn't what you get?  Or the owner takes your money and runs?  I know there's more of a chance that things will go smoothly but still there's a risk that I don't want to assume.

One thing, though - with a DC Points rental there aren't actual Guest Certificates like what you purchase if you give away an II exchange or Getaway.  You simply add the renter's name to the reservation the same way you'd do with a rental of your owned Week.

The only private rental I've ever done was way back before we owned timeshares - we rented DVC points through the disboards.  It was a first for both the owner and us and none of us were completely comfortable, but we used a written contract that others on the site recommended and we spoke on the phone several times before we agreed to anything.  When the trip was over we spoke one last time and both of us said the same thing - "so glad there weren't any problems!"  I don't think we'll ever go the rental route again.


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## GregT (Aug 7, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Oh, I agree with you!  But then again, I've always thought that any private rentals carry too much risk - not limited to the cash paid - for me to be comfortable with them.  What if you rent your Week to somebody and they trash the place?  Or they have unrealistic expectations and they're unhappy with what they get?  What if you rent from somebody only to find that what you expected isn't what you get?  Or the owner takes your money and runs?  I know there's more of a chance that things will go smoothly but still there's a risk that I don't want to assume.
> 
> One thing, though - with a DC Points rental there aren't actual Guest Certificates like what you purchase if you give away an II exchange or Getaway.  You simply add the renter's name to the reservation the same way you'd do with a rental of your owned Week.
> 
> The only private rental I've ever done was way back before we owned timeshares - we rented DVC points through the disboards.  It was a first for both the owner and us and none of us were completely comfortable, but we used a written contract that others on the site recommended and we spoke on the phone several times before we agreed to anything.  When the trip was over we spoke one last time and both of us said the same thing - "so glad there weren't any problems!"  I don't think we'll ever go the rental route again.



One point of clarification on this -- and it's a big part of the advantage of renting points is that you do not have the risk of the renter trashing your room.  You are simply transferring points to the other party and they will book a reservation under their name -- and if they trash the room, it's their issue.

The primary risk that I see is that either the cash never gets paid (but the points do transfer) or the cash is paid but the points don't transfer.   I've never encountered a problem with renting Worldmark credits for 6 years now (approximately 20 transactions) and the active people value their reputations.

Marriott's system has a second risk -- that the points rented don't mix -- someone rents Legacy Points when they needed Trust Points, or vice versa.   I believe this is an educational issue, but a real problem if someone rents the wrong type of point.

I am still very pleased with the results of the point rental message board, I am aware of 25 individual advertisements and over 30 successful point transfers.  Feedback PM'd to me has been encouraging, thanks for that!

Best to all,

Greg


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## Bikeguy (Aug 7, 2011)

Interesting thread!  Just getting into the timeshare vacation scene and don't own Marriott, but will be staying at MGO next week.

How would a person that doesn't own Marriott and isn't in the DC find out what a place would cost in points?

For example, is MGO available between now and Labor Day and what would the points rate be?

Is there availability for 2012 for August?

Heard the points cost covering maintenance fees in this thread, which is way more appealing than buying a Marriott timeshare.

Ideally, there would be a publicly searchable website.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 7, 2011)

Bikeguy said:


> Interesting thread!  Just getting into the timeshare vacation scene and don't own Marriott, but will be staying at MGO next week.
> 
> How would a person that doesn't own Marriott and isn't in the DC find out what a place would cost in points?
> 
> ...



They would probably look in the "Summary of New Marriott Points Program" FAQ sticky at the top of the forum. The points chart is linked in there. No need to be an owner to see it.


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## Bikeguy (Aug 7, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> They would probably look in the "Summary of New Marriott Points Program" FAQ sticky at the top of the forum. The points chart is linked in there. No need to be an owner to see it.



Excellent.  Thanks.


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## smithde (Aug 7, 2011)

I know this is a very basic question, so I apologize.  I have not joined DC.  I own a developer week and a resale week.  Can I join DC with just my developer week (to minimimze buy-in cost), not buy any points and then start renting points for use with or in addition to my owned weeks?  

If yes, do I incur any on-going costs from DC or just the upfront fee?  Would I rent legacy points or trust points?

Thanks.


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## m61376 (Aug 7, 2011)

Bikeguy said:


> Interesting thread!  Just getting into the timeshare vacation scene and don't own Marriott, but will be staying at MGO next week.
> 
> How would a person that doesn't own Marriott and isn't in the DC find out what a place would cost in points?
> 
> ...


But in order to rent points an use them you must belong to the DC.


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## smithde (Aug 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> But in order to rent points an use them you must belong to the DC.



That's why I asked "Can I join DC with just my developer week (to minimimze buy-in cost), not buy any points and then start renting points for use with or in addition to my owned weeks?"


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## windje2000 (Aug 7, 2011)

smithde said:


> That's why I asked "Can I join DC with just my developer week (to minimimze buy-in cost), not buy any points and then start renting points for use with or in addition to my owned weeks?"



Yes - you can do that.


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## smithde (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks.

The remaining questionw were "If yes, do I incur any on-going costs from DC or just the upfront fee? Would I rent legacy points or trust points?"

Thanks for the help.


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## GregT (Aug 7, 2011)

smithde said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The remaining questionw were "If yes, do I incur any on-going costs from DC or just the upfront fee? Would I rent legacy points or trust points?"
> 
> Thanks for the help.



Yes, there is an annual fee of $165 if you have less than 6,500 points and its $199 if you have more than 6,500.   This fee covers all of the ancillary fees that people currently pay (lock-off fee to Marriott, exchange fees to II, annual fee to II).

I'm sure the annual fee will go up over time and also that Marriott will begin to charge for additional services.

If you rent points, you would most likely be renting Legacy Points, especially if you're combining the rented points with any points from redeeming your own week.    While it is possible that you could rent Trust Points, I would only encourage that if there was a specific reason you wanted Trust Points.

An example of why you would want to rent Trust Points is if you saw a specific week in the Trust (from Dioxide's Recorded Trust Documents thread) that you couldn't be sure if it would ultimately make it to the Legacy Points pool.

Good luck!

Greg


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## Bikeguy (Aug 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> But in order to rent points an use them you must belong to the DC.



Didn't know that.

Thanks.

Looks like I will never be a points owner/user then.


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## smithde (Aug 8, 2011)

Greg,

Thanks for the thorough reply.  I really appreciate it.


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## GregT (Aug 31, 2011)

Can I ask TUGgers who have rented points how many of you used a contract (like the one available on the Tripod website below), versus how many of you did it with email communications (and trust in your counterpart)?

Please advise and thanks!


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## SueDonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

GregT said:


> Can I ask TUGgers who have rented points how many of you used a contract (like the one available on the Tripod website below), versus how many of you did it with email communications (and trust in your counterpart)?
> 
> Please advise and thanks!



Greg, I haven't done any renting/rentals but will it help you to have the "what if" question answered?

If I was involved in a DC Points-transfer transaction, I wouldn't feel like we needed a contract because that transaction can be made in a 3-way conversation between the parties and a VOA.  In that case it's verified immediately, and once it's done then the DC Points and how they're used are no longer under the control of the person who owns them.

If I was either party in a reservation-rental transaction, I'd use a contract because the DC Points would remain in the owner's control.  As the person renting out the DC Points, I'd want protection from the rentee (I don't think that's a real word?) canceling at a later date thus resulting in my Points becoming distress points.  As the rentee, I'd be concerned that the owner still had control of the Points and could theoretically scam me out of the reservation.

(FWIW, the one and only time we rented DVC Points from an owner, she and we would not have gone through with the transaction if we didn't agree on the written contract terms.)


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## NJDave (Aug 31, 2011)

GregT said:


> Can I ask TUGgers who have rented points how many of you used a contract (like the one available on the Tripod website below), versus how many of you did it with email communications (and trust in your counterpart)?
> 
> Please advise and thanks!



I purchased 2011 and sold 2012 points.  I trusted the seller when I was purchasing but I was only buying 200 points (i.e. it was only $100).  When I sold the 2012 points for around $1,000, the seller trusted me but we used paypal which provided some protection.


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## chunkygal (Aug 31, 2011)

I sold points. No contract. He paid me before I transferred them, but I would have transferred them first.

I have rented my DVC points over 15 times and never had a contract and never had a problem. I am aware it could happen, but I haven't had any issues. I figure people who can afford these probably are fairly responsible people. 

Bu t maybe I am not the person to ask. We never lock our house and once when a serivce person locked the doors when he left (we weren't home) we had no idea where the keys were.


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## curbysplace (Sep 1, 2011)

I sold 2011 and 2012 points in various amounts seven or eight times so far and never used a contract. We used both email and phone communications, often depending on the circumstances.   The transactions are very smooth and seamless using paypal and once the funds are received contacting a MVOA to transfer the points.  As mentioned in a prior post there are safeguards for the buyer and seller using paypal.


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## NJDave (Sep 2, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> If I was involved in a DC Points-transfer transaction, I wouldn't feel like we needed a contract because that transaction can be made in a 3-way conversation between the parties and a VOA.  In that case it's verified immediately, and once it's done then the DC Points and how they're used are no longer under the control of the person who owns them.




Maybe I am too conservative, but I would rather not have a three way conversation and disclose the information needed to approve the transfer of my points when selling to a person that I don't know.  When buying I feel that I must disclose my account number and owner name to get the points transfered into my account and would thus be OK with a 3 way call.

I don't think it is important for the buyer to know my account number and other account information.  When I was buying points (although it was a small amount), I was only concerned that I had the sellers contact information and was able to confirm that the points were in my account.  In both transactions I have been involved with, the steps occured as follows:

Buyer pays seller via Paypal 
Seller confirms payment received
Buyer provides account information
Seller calls Marriott and makes transfer 
Seller notifies buyer points are transfered
Buyer calls Marriott to confirm transaction was executed
Buyer notifies seller that they confirmed transaction was executed


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## GregT (Sep 4, 2011)

NJDave said:


> In both transactions I have been involved with, the steps occured as follows:
> 
> Buyer pays seller via Paypal
> Seller confirms payment received
> ...



Dave, this is a nice process, I did the same thing.  Thank you for documenting this.

As a supplemental note, the account information that the Seller needs to get from Buyer is:

   Buyer's Account Name
   Buyer's Account Number

When I called my VOA, my little script was:

"I'm Greg Tibbitts, Account Number ######, and I want to transfer X,XXX [Legacy] Points from Usage Year [2012] to [Buyer Account Name], at Buyer's Account Number ######."   

Since I don't own Trust Points, it wasn't really necessary for me to specify whether it was Legacy or Trust points to be transferred, but I included it above for clarity.   I did also put the same information into an email which I sent to my VOA, and cc:'d my Buyer to increase confidence in the transaction.

That's all I needed to do and it was very easy to complete the transfer.

Best to all,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Sep 4, 2011)

GregT said:


> Dave, this is a nice process, I did the same thing.  Thank you for documenting this.
> 
> As a supplemental note, the account information that the Seller needs to get from Buyer is:
> 
> ...



Isn't there a risk if you are calling AND e-mailing that the points get transferred twice?


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## GregT (Sep 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Isn't there a risk if you are calling AND e-mailing that the points get transferred twice?



Dioxide,

It is a good point, to be very careful if emailing and calling about the transfer.   In my email, I did ask my VOA to call me as part of doing the transfer.   When I called and spoke to her, she had not yet seen the email, and she made the transfer while we were speaking.  However, perhaps the email is redundant and introduces an unnecessary risk of duplicate transfer....?

All the best,

Greg


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## GregT (Sep 20, 2011)

All,

Some interesting activity over on the points marketplace (none are my ads).

1) First Classified Ad for Trust Points -- someone is renting 2,000 Trust points
2) Several ads for 2011 points (that will expire in 90+ days)
3) A couple ads for points that are in a holding period (ie, require a reservation be made in the renters name -- and reservation must be made within 60 days of check-in).

I continue to think that the ability to rent (and transfer) points is very very powerful, and a major positive for the Marriott system.  The different types of points (Trust/Legacy/Expiring/Holding Account) add a level of complexity -- but also provide an opportunity for those of us who are comfortable with the system.

I am curious what the clearing price ultimately is for these three different categories of points (Trust/Expiring/Holding Account).   There is a precedent transaction of $0.29 per point for expiring points -- and those still had 5 months of useful life left (July transaction).   As we approach 30-60 days of useful life, the point value may come under additional pressure.

Best to all,

Greg


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## mjm1 (Sep 20, 2011)

Greg, thanks for the update.  It will be interesting to see how the points rental market develops.  I don't anticipate using points for 2012, but may for 2013.  Depending where we want to go, I may look to rent additional points.

Cheers.


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## TUGEileen (Oct 5, 2011)

Can I buy these points and use them to book a stay at a Marriott hotel? Thank you for your help.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 5, 2011)

TUGEileen said:


> Can I buy these points and use them to book a stay at a Marriott hotel? Thank you for your help.



You could use them for explorer packages that include hotels. I really don't know much about the explorer packages so I don't really know the logistics. You can't convert them to Marriott Reward Points to use for hotel reservations. You also can't directly book Marriott hotels with them.


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## GregT (Oct 22, 2011)

All,

As we had speculated, there are a number of advertisements for points that expire at 12/31/11 (moderator note:  none are my ads).

This is interesting, and creates the possibility for discounted travel late in the year, by renting points that are near expiration.

Good luck to both the rentors and rentees, and I hope that each are able to find their match.

Best,

Greg


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## m61376 (Oct 22, 2011)

This is likely a stupid question, but while reading Dioxide's post about using the points to book explorer packages- when booking explorer packages, does the trip have to occur before the points expire, or do they just have to be booked? If the latter, it could be an interesting way to utilize expiring points. I am assuming it is the former. but I was wondering....


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## jin (Oct 22, 2011)

m61376 said:


> This is likely a stupid question, but while reading Dioxide's post about using the points to book explorer packages- when booking explorer packages, does the trip have to occur before the points expire, or do they just have to be booked? If the latter, it could be an interesting way to utilize expiring points. I am assuming it is the former. but I was wondering....



I asked this question about the ocean explorer, and was told the cruise has to include at least one day from 2011, but the rest can go into the following year....


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## slum808 (Oct 26, 2011)

While the price might be right, availability seems to be a stumbling block. Piccio was nice enough to check for rooms for me at Ko Olina. No 1, 2, or 3 bedrooms left for any weekend from thanksgiving till the end of the year. I'm sure there's availability somewhere else, just none that I can drive to. Still I'm glad Greg's site is around to at least give us the  opportunity to look.



GregT said:


> All,
> 
> As we had speculated, there are a number of advertisements for points that expire at 12/31/11 (moderator note:  none are my ads).
> 
> ...


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## jin (Nov 10, 2011)

*[Advertising deleted]*

[Advertising is not permitted in the discussion forum. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## dioxide45 (Nov 13, 2011)

jin said:


> DELETED



Shouldn't you have posted this on the rental board?


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## jin (Nov 14, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Shouldn't you have posted this on the rental board?



Sorry, I saw title of thread was "Point rental message board", and thought I could see if anyone had extra points they wanted to sell....


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## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2011)

jin said:


> Sorry, I saw title of thread was "Point rental message board", and thought I could see if anyone had extra points they wanted to sell....



You need to go to the My Website link in GregT's signature to get to the site where you want to post your request.


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## RBERR1 (Nov 18, 2011)

Greg,

Love that marketplace website you created.  Needed a small amount of pts because when I wanted to move a trip up two weeks it crossed a new pts threshold (unfortunate).  I found one of the people who had pts who listed on your site and got it all done including the new reservation in DC in less than a day with no hassles.  

Love when a plan all comes togther that easy.

Rich


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## ccpinternational (Nov 21, 2011)

I couldn't post anything at this points rental boards it returned below erro message.

_*Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, support@boardhost.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.*_

It might be due to I logged in from overseas in Asia. 

Can Greg solve this problem? I need to rent some points for my trip to Las Vegas next January. Thanks a lot!


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## GregT (Nov 21, 2011)

ccpinternational said:


> I couldn't post anything at this points rental boards it returned below erro message.
> 
> _*Internal Server Error
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
> ...



CCP,

I wasn't able to recreate the problem -- can I ask you to try again, perhaps they were having a technical glitch that they've now fixed?

Thanks!


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## GregT (May 22, 2012)

All,

Thank you very much for your support of this effort -- please visit the board for an update and I have updated the links as well.  And many thanks to Steven Ting for invaluable technical contributions!

All the best,

Greg


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## budnj (May 22, 2012)

*Thank you!*

Greg, thank you very much for your efforts. I was able to purchase points to extend an Aruba vacation. Appreciate it!


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## dualrated2 (May 22, 2012)

The new site looks great. Thank you Greg and Steven.


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## wvacations (May 22, 2012)

Great job GregT. THe new look is wounderful.


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## puckmanfl (May 22, 2012)

good evening...

New site looks great

Well done Greg and Steve....

10 days to MFC!!!!

tic toc...

will give full disclosure..especially to Jim and Janette!!!!


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## Safti (May 22, 2012)

*Kudos to Greg*

Thanks Greg for all your invaluable time and energy that you've put into this site. 

To all of you Tuggers who keep the energy going and make it work for us all.

Keep up the good work. 

Thanks to Steve as well.


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## m61376 (May 23, 2012)

Thanks Greg- nice new update!

Steve- thanks for helping make something great even better!


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## StevenTing (May 23, 2012)

Just glad I was able to contribute to an already awesome community.


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