# Crystal Shores New Prices



## susanmmm (Sep 22, 2009)

For those people who might be interested... I just got this from a sales rep.  The first price listed is the original price.  The second is the discounted price with the % of discount showing last.

Crystal Shores Marco Island 2009 Price Plan - Effective 9/10/2009




 2009 Price Assumptions

Inventory Type and Season
 Current Price
 Current Price with 2009 Discount
 Discount %






2 Bedroom Gulf Front - Platinum
 $83,400 
 $54,210 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf Front - Gold
 $46,300 
 $30,095 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf Front - Silver
 $29,900 
 $25,415 
 15%






2 Bedroom Gulf Side - Platinum
 $69,700 
 $45,305 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf Side - Gold
 $39,000 
 $25,350 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf Side - Silver
 $26,900 
 $22,865 
 15%






2 Bedroom Gulf View - Platinum
 $64,400 
 $41,860 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf View - Gold
 $35,600 
 $23,140 
 35%

2 Bedroom Gulf View - Silver
 $24,900 
 $21,165 
 15%






3 Bedroom Gulf Front Penthouse - Platinum
 $114,488 
 $74,417 
 35%

3 Bedroom Gulf Front Penthouse - Gold
 $62,300 
 $40,495 
 35%

3 Bedroom Gulf Front Penthouse - Silver
 $36,600 
 $31,110 
 15%


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## Cathyb (Sep 22, 2009)

Curious -- what happens to those folks who bought at the high price -- are they 'out the difference'?


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## timeos2 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Thanks for the money. Now we have a sale!*



Cathyb said:


> Curious -- what happens to those folks who bought at the high price -- are they 'out the difference'?



They sure are! It will always say something like "prior sales excluded". Ask the early iPhone adopters about sudden price drops and refunds (none). 

Who in this economy would even consider these prices for a week of vacation timeshare? They are going to have a heck of a time selling even at the "reduced" prices...


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## SueDonJ (Sep 22, 2009)

Is this the first MVCI property that has dropped the prices across the board permanently because of slow sales/the economy?  Sales and special promotions are one thing but this is something else entirely, isn't it?


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## dougp26364 (Sep 22, 2009)

Sort of puts a new spin on the idea of getting the best price pre-construction doesn't it. 

I loved the property but hated the pricing. They had my attention up until the announced the prices. Even at the reduced prices I'm not interested.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 22, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> Sort of puts a new spin on the idea of getting the best price pre-construction doesn't it.
> 
> I loved the property but hated the pricing. They had my attention up until the announced the prices. Even at the reduced prices I'm not interested.



Have they really permanently reduced the prices? It doesn't appear so. They still have the % off savings. Marriott will continue to publicize the original price as a selling point on the discounted price. If these are the prices they keep until sell out then the price was permanently reduced, though try to get Marriott to admit that.


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## kmij (Sep 22, 2009)

*crystal shores*

wow - those prices floored me!!  i had no idea they were that steep.
it is no wonder i haven't received my request first trade to crystal shores for this upcoming winter season.  i have had the request in since last february.
people that own there are probably not interested in trading yet.
it was a long shot but we may still hear something.  i am not giving up hope yet!!


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## AceValenta (Sep 22, 2009)

At those prices...You might as well find a condo for 100K - 200K, take the 15yr - 30 yr mortgage. Rent the property out and go to Marco whenever you want.


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## ldanna (Sep 22, 2009)

I may be the only one to disagree (or agree with Marriott). The prices for 2bd silver and gold seasons are not that bad, half the price of a 2bd at Ko Olina (developer), or the price for a 2 bd Ko Olina at eBay. I don't know how much MF is, but it should be a lot less than Hawaii. There are advantages on buying developer on this particular property:

*no units available on the resale market
*a very dificult resort to trade into for the next couple of years.
*it should be a good trader even during silver season (like OP is)
*air tickets inexpensive to south Florida (a lot less than Hawaii), maybe driving distance depending where you live.
*the quality and location of the resort: a new one, beach front.

Not that bad, on the contrary regarding silver and gold. Platinum is still too much.


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## Whirl (Sep 22, 2009)

*Want it, but still can't do it....*

The most interesting thing to me is the 3 BR Platinum Ocean Fronts, which when we were there in June, we understood to be sold out...Again, I was all in until I heard the prices and then I knew I would have to try my hand at exchanging in...

Anyway, did anyone else understand that to be true....penthouses all sold?

But they have stopped construction here, right?


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## pwrshift (Sep 22, 2009)

I still think the new prices are about 50% too high.

Brian


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## dougp26364 (Sep 23, 2009)

AceValenta said:


> At those prices...You might as well find a condo for 100K - 200K, take the 15yr - 30 yr mortgage. Rent the property out and go to Marco whenever you want.




I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble finding and ocean front or even an ocean view condo for those prices. I'm don't know abouit Marco Island but condo's over on Singer Island (atlantic side) were selling for $500,000 (one bedroom inland view) to well over $1,000,000 if you wanted ocean front. Not to mention the insurance and non-resident taxes that go along with property in Florida.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Sep 23, 2009)

*Marriott's Marco Island*

MMI is not a property to buy (because of the high prices), but in my opinion a good property to trade into (again, because of the high prices).

The on site sales force no longer exists, so it will be interesting to see if the project will ever be finished (or the construction will ever be resumed).

Anyone who previously bought will likely be very upset that the prices have been substantially reduced.   And I think those reduced prices are still too high.


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## m61376 (Sep 23, 2009)

Not to sound insulting, but I'd like to know what makes that property so special that Marriott is charging that kind of money. It's Florida, not some exotic destination; is it really that remarkable an area?


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## AceValenta (Sep 23, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble finding and ocean front or even an ocean view condo for those prices. I'm don't know abouit Marco Island but condo's over on Singer Island (atlantic side) were selling for $500,000 (one bedroom inland view) to well over $1,000,000 if you wanted ocean front. Not to mention the insurance and non-resident taxes that go along with property in Florida.



I may have to up it to $250,000....But I still have the capabilities to rent it out, thus deferring my costs. Florida's real estate market is not what it once was. 

Plus, I could use it whenever I want and not have to rely on a specific season. 

A quick Google and entering a price range of $0 - $250,000 turns up a lot of properties. Some aren't beach front but there are a few listings:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Marco-Island_FL/price-na-250000


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## josh1231 (Sep 23, 2009)

AceValenta said:


> I may have to up it to $250,000....But I still have the capabilities to rent it out, thus deferring my costs. Florida's real estate market is not what it once was.
> 
> Plus, I could use it whenever I want and not have to rely on a specific season.
> 
> ...



I think mathematically you're always going to come out ahead if you can afford to purchase an entire condo. Mathematically, if you upped it to $2,000,000 and purchased a house in the vicinity of the beach, you would get a better return than with your $250,000 condo because houses appreciate significantly more than condos do. $250,000 is a lot more money than $25,000 for a gold week so I don't know if a $250,000 condo really qualifies as a substitute here because you're talking about 10X more money.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 23, 2009)

Any time you can purchase a condo which gives you the exact same vacation experience as a timeshare unit, AND will generate positive cash flow through rentals, you'll come out financially ahead.

But if your goal is to vacation in a certain style without adding ownership responsibilities and huge expenses (condo mortgage, fees, taxes and insurance) to your financial portfolio, then timeshare fits that bill.  Doesn't it?

Anyway, I think these price reductions at Crystal Shores are permanent based on this thread.


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## LisaRex (Sep 23, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble finding and ocean front or even an ocean view condo for those prices. I'm don't know abouit Marco Island but condo's over on Singer Island (atlantic side) were selling for $500,000 (one bedroom inland view) to well over $1,000,000 if you wanted ocean front. Not to mention the insurance and non-resident taxes that go along with property in Florida.



With the discounted prices, Marriott is asking $2.7M (assuming even split between platinum/gold/silver weeks) on their 2 bdrm OF condo.  Insurance and taxes are paid in your annual MFs.  I think that reflects quite a disparity between reality and their version of reality.


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## ldanna (Sep 26, 2009)

I am just wondering how good those week will trade? Should they have the same power of Ocean Point and Beachplace Towers?

Does anyone know how much MF is?


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## Whirl (Sep 26, 2009)

ldanna said:


> I am just wondering how good those week will trade? Should they have the same power of Ocean Point and Beachplace Towers?
> 
> Does anyone know how much MF is?




I think Crystal Shores would trade really well. MArco island is tough a tough trade during prime time and it would be the nicest timeshare in the area by far. 

To me the new price on the 3BR summer gold penthouse at 40k ( if you can really buy one) is interesting. However, I need to know more about the plans to finish the resort, given Marriott's current reassessment of the timeshare business. I would be very cautious. We loved Marco and I would happily sell my Hilton Head weeks ( one which I JUST bought!) for Marco Island if I could get comfortable with it.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 26, 2009)

ldanna said:


> I am just wondering how good those week will trade? Should they have the same power of Ocean Point and Beachplace Towers?
> 
> Does anyone know how much MF is?



This is the notice of annual meeting scheduled for 10/01/09 and the _proposed_ 2010 budget from the Owners tab at the Crystal Shores page on my-vacationclub.com.  It looks like the Operating and Reserve Fees less Developer Subsidies are _proposed_ to be $1,035.70 for a 2BR and $1,451.59 for a 3BR.  It also looks like Property Taxes are in addition to these amounts and vary according to season.  Maybe somebody who can read these things better than me will hopefully correct me if I have any of this wrong?

I agree with Whirl that this property has more uncertainty surrounding its future than any other US MVCI resort.  The economy has me spooked about making any luxury purchase for the forseeable future; at the top of that list is a timeshare, but especially this one in particular.


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## skidoc (Sep 26, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> They sure are! It will always say something like "prior sales excluded". Ask the early iPhone adopters about sudden price drops and refunds (none).
> 
> Who in this economy would even consider these prices for a week of vacation timeshare? They are going to have a heck of a time selling even at the "reduced" prices...



Actually, Apple refunded $100 to all of the early adopters.


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## timeos2 (Sep 26, 2009)

skidoc said:


> Actually, Apple refunded $100 to all of the early adopters.



A store credit of $100 vs the $200 drop in price is closer to the $25 RCI "perk" than a real refund. They SPENT $200 real cash. A $100 voucher worth $25 to maybe $40 in real value (think developer markup = Apple Store) hardly makes it a good deal. I'll stay with the "prior sales excluded" as the real outcome. If you buy early you are paying a big price that will likely drop if you are just a little patient.


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## kjd (Sep 26, 2009)

*Collier County Taxes*

The Collier County Board of County Commissioners has voted to keep the county "revenue neutual" for next year.  What this means in ordinary language is that if the assessed valuation of property falls due to the bad real estate market, the tax rate will be increased to make up the shortfall.

Therefore, it is uncertain whether there will be any tax reduction even though the assessed valuation of units at Crystal Shores may have fallen.  Taxes may drop slightly but it doesn't seem likely that it will be a large decrease, if any.  Most of the annual maintenance fee is made up of other things anyway.


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## ldanna (Sep 27, 2009)

Whirl said:


> We loved Marco and I would happily sell my Hilton Head weeks ( one which I JUST bought!) for Marco Island if I could get comfortable with it.



As you can see, I love HHI, too. The only minor inconvinience about HHI is that all resorts are dedicated 2bd, although it makes your week a better trader.

I have never read anything about this, but I think it would be nice if Marriott could accept a week for a down payment of a new week, not at all resorts, but HHI resorts as an example, where Marriott doesn't have any inventory left and has buyers. Just wondering!


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## Whirl (Sep 28, 2009)

ldanna said:


> As you can see, I love HHI, too. The only minor inconvinience about HHI is that all resorts are dedicated 2bd, although it makes your week a better trader.
> 
> I have never read anything about this, but I think it would be nice if Marriott could accept a week for a down payment of a new week, not at all resorts, but HHI resorts as an example, where Marriott doesn't have any inventory left and has buyers. Just wondering!




I have thought about calling them, even if just as an exercise. They have reportedly done these equity trade-ins before ( although one of my weeks is anon-marriott resale, so that lessens the chance of them humoring me)  I had called them in the past, years ago, I think when I was contemplating a new purchase, but is certainly wasn't very favorable....but I really am not ready to bite off Crystal shores, anyway.  I 'll just have to hope for a trade, rent or use MR points again!

Much higher maint fees too( Marriott subsidy is over $300) and too much uncertainty.


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## Eric (Sep 28, 2009)

yet another person who doesn't understand the subsidy 



Whirl said:


> I have thought about calling them, even if just as an exercise. They have reportedly done these equity trade-ins before ( although one of my weeks is anon-marriott resale, so that lessens the chance of them humoring me)  I had called them in the past, years ago, I think when I was contemplating a new purchase, but is certainly wasn't very favorable....but I really am not ready to bite off Crystal shores, anyway.  I 'll just have to hope for a trade, rent or use MR points again!
> 
> Much higher maint fees too( Marriott subsidy is over $300) and too much uncertainty.


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## Whirl (Sep 28, 2009)

Eric said:


> yet another person who doesn't understand the subsidy




so just explain it, Eric. no need to be condescending. that 's what these boards are about...sharing perspectives and knowledge...so do it, please.


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## Eric (Sep 28, 2009)

A  Subsidy is to account for unsold units from the developer, NOT to artifically lowered the yearly fees.




Whirl said:


> so just explain it, Eric. no need to be condescending. that 's what these boards are about...sharing perspectives and knowledge...so do it, please.


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## timeos2 (Sep 28, 2009)

*May not be so far fetched*



Eric said:


> A  Subsidy is to account for unsold units from the developer, NOT to artifically lowered the yearly fees.



That is correct. But you should also realize (as I think the OP did) that when the Developer is in control of the resort management, the budget AND has to subsidize (by Fl law) there is a very good chance that things like reserves are being seriously underfunded. Therefore when the subsidy ends the need for additional fees ASAP is very likely to be at or above the level of subsidy shown. If not the first year or two soon after and/or with a special assessment. Happened far too many times at far too many resorts. 

Add in that this resort may now never be completed as designed and that the amenities promised may never be built (another common problem especially with stalled/curtailed developments) and the "questions" around this place are very many indeed. Not one I'd buy into - especially at the unbelievable prices even the "discounts" represent.


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## Eric (Sep 28, 2009)

You post is speculation at best as seeing how you have never owned a Marriott, is really just a guess. The comment is just way to general.



timeos2 said:


> That is correct. But you should also realize (as I think the OP did) that when the Developer is in control of the resort management, the budget AND has to subsidize (by Fl law) there is a very good chance that things like reserves are being seriously underfunded. Therefore when the subsidy ends the need for additional fees ASAP is very likely to be at or above the level of subsidy shown. If not the first year or two soon after and/or with a special assessment. Happened far too many times at far too many resorts.
> 
> Add in that this resort may now never be completed as designed and that the amenities promised may never be built (another common problem especially with stalled/curtailed developments) and the "questions" around this place are very many indeed. Not one I'd buy into - especially at the unbelievable prices even the "discounts" represent.


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## timeos2 (Sep 28, 2009)

*Not the exception more likely the rule*



Eric said:


> You post is speculation at best as seeing how you have never owned a Marriott, is really just a guess. The comment is just way to general.



You do not have to own a Marriott resort to read / see the numerous reports of resorts operated and/or built by Marriott that have underfunded reserves (and it's NOT just Marriott that does it) that later led to increased fees and/or special assessments or both. It is an industry wide problem and it is very unlikely that this specific resort would be immune especially when it is starting out under a very big cloud for multiple reasons.


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## Eric (Sep 28, 2009)

If you have specifics instead of one offs, please list them. At this point you have still just generalized and not even given one example. Marriott has never had a special assesment on any resort in thier first 10 years of ownership which would shoot your theory down. 



timeos2 said:


> You do not have to own a Marriott resort to read / see the numerous reports of resorts operated and/or built by Marriott that have underfunded reserves (and it's NOT just Marriott that does it) that later led to increased fees and/or special assessments or both. It is an industry wide problem and it is very unlikely that this specific resort would be immune especially when it is starting out under a very big cloud for multiple reasons.


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## timeos2 (Sep 28, 2009)

*Aruba Surf Club is one, just the most recent of many*



Eric said:


> If you have specifics instead of one offs, please list them. At this point you have still just generalized and not even given one example. Marriott has never had a special assesment on any resort in thier first 10 years of ownership which would shoot your theory down.



Again you are correct. However the money that led to the after 10 year special assessments should have been collected in years 1-10 and, under Marriott watch, was not. That included the subsidy period as well as the early time following. I'd have to research which resorts it was, if necessary I'll do it, but if memory serves it may be a majority not a minority of the total system.  Plus there were the resorts they dropped and STILL had owners get hit for special assessment fees. Hardly stellar management no matter how you look at it nor does it bode well for this most recent and troubled project.  Denying the significant risk involved in any purchase now is really not looking at the full picture.


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## Eric (Sep 28, 2009)

Interesting that a HOA guy like yourself blames it all on the managment company. Not suprising , just interesting. "Majority" ? I think not. You probably need to stick to mom & pop resorts John as I think your evaluation of the biggest and most successful timeshare campany in the world is a tad off. Thats just my opinion anyway. 



timeos2 said:


> Again you are correct. However the money that led to the after 10 year special assessments should have been collected in years 1-10 and, under Marriott watch, was not. That included the subsidy period as well as the early time following. I'd have to research which resorts it was, if necessary I'll do it, but if memory serves it may be a majority not a minority of the total system.  Plus there were the resorts they dropped and STILL had owners get hit for special assessment fees. Hardly stellar management no matter how you look at it nor does it bode well for this most recent and troubled project.  Denying the significant risk involved in any purchase now is really not looking at the full picture.


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## timeos2 (Sep 28, 2009)

*The problem is industry wide but some more prone than others*



Eric said:


> Interesting that a HOA guy like yourself blames it all on the managment company. Not suprising , just interesting. "Majority" ? I think not. You probably need to stick to mom & pop resorts John as I think your evaluation of the biggest and most successful timeshare campany in the world is a tad off. Thats just my opinion anyway.



I like & own Wyndham - far larger than Marriott and with some, certainly not all, resorts as good as some Marriotts.  They too have the same issue - under funding reserves - as Marriott, DRI, Sheriton and nearly every other resort/group you can name. They did it with their lower end resorts and did it again with the best they built. It is truly an industry wide problem not at all limited to one group or another. 

It seems to be just too tempting to developer based management, regardless of who they may be, to hold back on reserves especially in the early years when work isn't required (yet) and the funding hits not only the individual owners but the developer as well. Add in the need to sell - and nothing looks better than a "low" annual fee - and the table is set for severe under estimating of future resort needs. When a resort also has pricing issues, future questions about what, if anything, will ever get built in as originally planned the future it simply makes for a very dicey place to buy no matter how nice a location or how beautiful a unit may be.  Not that an owner controlled resort with independent management can't do the same thing (there are owners who don't look beyond this years fee as well) but it seems to happen more consistently when the management remains in the developers hands. 

Just a heads up. I doubt many will base their choice to buy or walk from this resort based on a TUG message thread but I do think the OP had a very valid point that this resort has even more potential for future problems and high fees than even the already too high average would predict making it an above average risk to buy into IMO.


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## m61376 (Sep 29, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> Again you are correct. However the money that led to the after 10 year special assessments should have been collected in years 1-10 and, under Marriott watch, was not. That included the subsidy period as well as the early time following. I'd have to research which resorts it was, if necessary I'll do it, but if memory serves it may be a majority not a minority of the total system.  Plus there were the resorts they dropped and STILL had owners get hit for special assessment fees. Hardly stellar management no matter how you look at it nor does it bode well for this most recent and troubled project.  Denying the significant risk involved in any purchase now is really not looking at the full picture.



???Did you mean the Ocean Club??? There have been no special assessments at the Surf Club and the resort is only about  years old, with the final phase having opened last year.


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## timeos2 (Sep 29, 2009)

*A rose is a rose but there is more than one Aruba resort*



m61376 said:


> ???Did you mean the Ocean Club??? There have been no special assessments at the Surf Club and the resort is only about  years old, with the final phase having opened last year.



Whoops - too many "clubs" Yes, I did mean Ocean Club. Sorry. That's exactly why I didn't want to get into naming individual resorts as I am not familiar enough with the correct names in most cases.


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## jerseyfinn (Oct 1, 2009)

*How many accountants fit on the head of a pin?*

John,

You keep banging away at Marriott like it's a Bank of America CEO. I just don't see the evil empire/deceptive book-keeping paradigm that you keep hammering here. I agree with Eric that in terms of the upfront accounting, Marriott is steady and true. So yes, a new resort employs developer subsidies during the early years and special assessments are not a part of the picture. But it is not Marriott vodoo economics. 

HOAs play the main role in determining reserves, and even an assidious HOA sometimes misses the mark. And then there are things like hurricanes and other events which might cause a special assessment ( Ocean Pointe comes to my mind ). I myself see Marriott acting in an advisory role in helping their HOAs determine how to contain costs while sustaining sufficient reserves.

No complaint on my part with what Marriott does at all three of our resorts.

**************

And to return to the OP's inital post about prices at Marco Island.

They are instructive numbers which reflect two things. First, Marriott does indeed err when they overestimate what people are willing to pay at Marco. The price was wrong from day one. Does this affirm an over ambitous company out to make too much money? No . . .  Marriott simply got the market wrong that's all. Just like Forest Gump says, " it happens".

Second, dropping prices 35% is relatively in line with the overall drop of realestate prices in Florida. And we can amortize and argue all we want here, but too many properties and too few buyers create a dilemma for any seller, even a savvy timeshare developer such as Marriott. So Marriott has reset prices and must now step back and watch how the larger economy around it progresses.  

I don't buy into arguments about never buying developer timeshare again and the end of timeshare as we know it. Timeshare is a part of the larger economy of discretionary spending. We as owners, Marriott & every other company out there are presently caught beneath the downpour that dark economic times dumps upon us. The answer is not that one should never venture out into the market again. It's more that patience is a virtue and we need to let the clock run on this economy before any of us will have a clue as to how many folks do or do not return to the sunshine.

I'm presently at Marriott Marbella and the resort is near full. So bad economy or not, people still get on with their lives and for some, timeshare is still a part of that life. I'm simply gonna pay my MFs, travel when I can, and hope that the economy heals sooner rather than later -- but two out of three is good enough for me at this moment.

Barry


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## Dean (Oct 1, 2009)

Certainly the prices were high and still are even with the decrease.  I suspect ONE of the main reasons is that the area is high in general.  The naples area and Marco Island are quite upscale and a comparable condo in the area is still likely in the $2-4 mil range even with the economy.  Once can not do an internet or MLS search and find comparable properties without having much more info than just price.  Plus places like Singer Island, Daytona and Amelia Island are the low rent district compared to the Naples area.  Even HH does not compare from a price or demand standpoint but a comparable Condo for HH is in the $450K to 1.3 mil range.  IF one wanted to vacation there almost every year it'd still be reasonable to buy there though it's too expensive to use for trade as are many other places as well.  Though I would agree it's likely a better choice to rent if you can't trade in.

As for Marriott and special assessments, they have been rare and small as a rule and in most cases related to items that were not able to be anticipated rather than to simple greedy underfunding.  OC is a unique case in a way though much of the costs there were generated by an item that was not anticipated to be replaced so early and is very expensive to do, the roof.  Some may argue that it could have been anticipated but that would mean discussing conspiracy and deceit theories that I don't think apply to the budgeting decisions ongoing by the BOD.  For GO it was related to an early redo and upgrade and was under $200 per week.  For HP it was related well to the fact it's HP and likely can never be brought up to standards.  To say underfunding is common place with Marriott (or DVC) would not fit the facts and information that I am aware of though I suspect it's not uncommon with many other resort systems.


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 1, 2009)

*I Think I Own A Mom & Pop Timeshare -- & I've Stayed At Another Mom & Pop Special.*




Eric said:


> You probably need to stick to mom & pop resorts John as I think your evaluation of the biggest and most successful timeshare campany in the world is a tad off.


Just wondering, Eric, what you have in mind when you refer to mom & pop resorts. 

As it happens, I have just about decided that description fits 1 of the timeshares where we own -- Crown Point Condominiums in Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas.  (Not positively sure, because I've never been there -- just bought a dinky week there as a toe-hold into RCI Points -- so I'm judging by the homespun financial reports & iffy bottom line, not by physical aspects of the property, which I've never seen.) 

_Mom & Pop Resort_ aptly fits another USA heartland timeshare where we stayed via RCI _Last Call_ a couple of years back -- The Colonnade in Branson, Missouri -- a conveniently located partly converted hotel that features free breakfast every morning (heavy on the biscuits & gravy -- yum). 

No doubt there are others, but those are the only 2 mom & pop timeshares I am acquainted with. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## josh1231 (Oct 1, 2009)

Dean said:


> Certainly the prices were high and still are even with the decrease.  I suspect ONE of the main reasons is that the area is high in general.  The naples area and Marco Island are quite upscale and a comparable condo in the area is still likely in the $2-4 mil range even with the economy.



I think your numbers are quite a ways off. They are selling the timeshares like they are worth $2.7 million, however a comparable ~1.5K square foot 2-bedroom ocean front condo is about $1 million. Now I am not an expert on the area by any means, but all of the condos I saw in the $2-4 mil range were 4-5K square feet, so much larger than the Crystal shores condos.


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## Dean (Oct 1, 2009)

josh1231 said:


> I think your numbers are quite a ways off. They are selling the timeshares like they are worth $2.7 million, however a comparable ~1.5K square foot 2-bedroom ocean front condo is about $1 million. Now I am not an expert on the area by any means, but all of the condos I saw in the $2-4 mil range were 4-5K square feet, so much larger than the Crystal shores condos.


We'll be there next May to I'll likely look formally for this type of info.  For HH an inland view at a resort somewhat comparable to GO but with slightly smaller units (1100 compared to 1380) was down to $450 for a unit  in a good OF complex but not much of a view from the unit and up to over a million for a full OF unit in a 2 BR.  OS units varied with the exact view anywhere from the mid $550 to $750K.  Yearly fees and taxes varied but tended to be in the $1K per month range or just under.  One could buy a year at GO for around $600K.  The problem with either scenario is that the yearly fees would be around $50K per year.  There are other units, including OF resorts on HH that one an get for the $200K range and in some cases, still be overpaying.


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## Andmilair (Oct 5, 2009)

It’s just unfortunate that people bought into the property, paid a lot of money, and are not sure if the promised amenities to be offered by the completed resort will ever be achieved.


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## Venter (Oct 5, 2009)

I also have some difficulty with the resort names but have recently been looking at short exchanging into Crystal Shores.  There was incedently a week available in Novmeber but I wanted to go in March and couldn't wait till 59 day period to be sure.

I would think that the pricing is so high because this beach is apparently quite significant as to being protected because sea turtles nest here.  I am not a local so do not shoot me down if info is incorrect.  Also there are no properties left  in this stretch with beach front locations as new laws prohibit new development a certain distance from the beach.  Marriott can build here because they are piggy backing on a previous hotel or something that was built here.  Hope I got the resort and info right.

Anyways, these two things makes this development quite special in my eyes.  Not special enough however to purchase at current prices.  Maybe would be tempted by a silver week or gold non Ocean view but my children will soon be going to school and then flexibility is out of the window.  If I lived driving distance from this property I might have considered buying one of the premium units to holiday in every year because, like I said, if my info is correct beach front locations are getting fewer around the world.  To have such a rare thing on your door step as sea turtles nesting must also be quite extraordinary.  I think once the economy returns and this site is finished and sold out, exchange for a silver week will probably not carry that much value.  Says somebody who thinks the economy is like the seasons, tide and global climate - it ebb and flows.


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## kjd (Oct 6, 2009)

As a local person I can tell you that these new discounted prices are absurd.  This location was a flop when it was a Raddison hotel and could be a flop under Marriott unless they lower the prices to a more realistic level.  I doubt that that will happen.  You can buy most of the Hilton properties on the same beach for less than $10,000, but they are old. 

Most locals don't fry themselves on the beach in order to get a "status tan" for display when they go home. If a local person would buy a timeshare on the beach it would be to use it as a day pass.  The CS sales staff has all been fired, many of whom were local people.  There is not much good word spoken about the resort locally.

It's also true that Marriott is not crazy. The Marco beach is one of the best anywhere.  It is also a very safe enviornment for families.  However, I've always considered Marriott's marketing to target well-heeled snowbird Northerners or Europeans with strong money compared to the US dollar. If you don't fall into either category you should probably quit talking about purchasing.  The resale market may not have sufficient quantity to lower prices like other timeshare locations.  Time will tell. 

The Canadian dollar has recently risen in value so they may also be in a position to purchase at CS.  They were viewed as poor churchmice when the Looney was around $.60.  It's now close to par with the US dollar.  Canadains are also limited to six months per year in the US. Many of the Canadians here are from Ontario and have a few bucks to spend.

Europeans are beach people because some of their countries lack a lot of sunny days and have lousy beaches or no beach at all.  Many of them come here in the summer rather than winter.  They also buy their units for about 50% less because of the strong Euro.  That makes a big difference.  If Marriott continues to market to these groups they will eventually sell out their units.  Especially, since Crystal Shores is not a very large project.  All others will probably forget about it.


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## kenny1975 (Oct 6, 2009)

And to piggy back on what kjd just said...my family and I purchased a condo in Marco back in 1985 - two properties down from the new Crystal Shores.  We of course toured Crystal Shores several times and love everything about it...and as you would expect from Marriott - the facilities and room quality are second to none...as timeshares go anyways.  We heard that the prices at Crystal Shores were so much higher because Marriott had to purchase the land from Radisson versus other Marriott properties that may already be owned my JW Marriot or Ritz.  At any rate, it's really hard to make the math work out in your favor - even with the discouted rates being quoted.  We LOVE Marco and are down there 3 to 4 times per year - I can't say a bad thing about it BUT to spend $50K for an ocean front platinum week doesn't make sense...let alone the $80K+ that they were asking (and selling) when this property was being built.  If you have that kind of money to spend on a timeshare...for just 1 week per year...you would be MUCH better to own a condo on the beach.  Anyways, anyone that purchased there or purchases there won't be disappointed but I think they'll be disappointed when the price continues to fall...which I believe it will continue to do.  As I understand it, the property is only 1/3 complete...and there doesn't seem to be any recent activity to suggest that any new construction will be starting anytime soon.


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## timeos2 (Oct 6, 2009)

kenny1975 said:


> Anyways, anyone that purchased there or purchases there won't be disappointed but I think they'll be disappointed when the price continues to fall...which I believe it will continue to do.  As I understand it, the property is only 1/3 complete...and there doesn't seem to be any recent activity to suggest that any new construction will be starting anytime soon.



Yes, prices will come down more either retail and/or resale. Count on it. 

As for the other 2/3 it is highly doubtful it will ever be built as originally planned and the promised amenities, which are not guaranteed, are also likely never to fully materialize. Something will get built there but it may not be the timeshares now and may or may not allow the timeshare owners to utilize any features. It turns out to be a bad deal for Marriott and most likely the early buyers as well. Happens sometimes but this one is huge. Not Marriotts fault - who could foresee the total collapse the economy would take - but they got burned & inadvertently burned buyers as well. Now they have to try to dump what they can at the best rate possible and move on. It won't be pretty.


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## JimC (Oct 6, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Any time you can purchase a condo which gives you the exact same vacation experience as a timeshare unit, AND will generate positive cash flow through rentals, you'll come out financially ahead.....



There is risk in that option as well.  As was learned by many here in Florida since 2006.  Probably the least risky is not owning vacation property at all.


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