# Where does the eBay et al resale properties actually come from?



## bendadin (Jul 13, 2019)

Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?


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## dgalati (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?


Yes we are. Most resale contracts sold at $50-$500 without closing costs are being disposed of thru third parties associated with exit companies. I talked with a owner of one contact I bought on ebay from a highly recommended reseller. The owner of deed said he paid a exit company 4k to get rid of a Wyndham deed. He had no knowledge of the ovations program.


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## CO skier (Jul 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yes we are. Most resale contracts sold at $50-$500 without closing costs are being disposed of thru third parties associated with exit companies. I talked with a owner of one contact I bought on ebay from a highly recommended reseller. The owner of deed said he paid a exit company 4k to get rid of a Wyndham deed. He had no knowledge of the ovations program.


The seller paid a $4k commission for someone to sell the timeshare.  I do not see a problem with that; no different than someone paying a commission to sell a house.

The Ovation program is not a secret.  Wyndham advertises it on the log-in page.  If someone chooses an exit company instead of Ovation, that is a consumer education problem not an exit company problem.

I have purchased six timeshares on eBay.  No difficulties, and I thought I got great deals, and the deals keep getting better as time goes by.  For the sellers, I and the exit company were the solution, not the problem.  eBay was the convenient mechanism that brought buyer and seller together.

If Ovation ever catches on and dries up the resale market (doubtful), that will be a problem for me.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?



No we are not.  We have advertised and recommended Free Giveaways. We have steered people away from those exit companies.  There is also RedWeek.

I have four TS: 2 from TUG, 1 Sumday, and 1 from TS Nation.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?



So far you have two different answers.  

As a result my answer will be yes and no.  If by “exit companies” you are referring to the scam artists that are simply taking money with no real intention of ever actually helping the owner in question, then no, we are not perpetuating the problem, since these fraudulent exit companies are not legitimate in any way, shape or form.  This would be the “no” answer.

The answer would be yes at least in part and possibility if we are referring to legitimate exit companies who, as CO Skier said, are really being paid for their time to resell the timeshare.  Then again, in a competitive market economy where caveat emptor is always in play, I tend to lean more toward CO Skiers assessment as opposed to dgalati’s assessment, but that’s me. 




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## bendadin (Jul 13, 2019)

So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.

What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.
> 
> What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.



We also rebuy from sellers who got ripped off from developers/resorts.  Should we not rebuy from those ripped-off sellers too?  If we rebuy, are we perpetuating the problem?  Where do you draw the line?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 13, 2019)

I used to be all "up in arms" over helping the postcard/exit companies to get rid of the inventory via ebay.  This changed for me, because I decided people are just really so stupid to pay someone $3,000+ to help them get out of something they should be keeping.  After all, they bought with their eyes wide open.  They had a rescission period.  

These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.  

The only victims here are the ones who are still stuck with timeshares that don't get sold, even though they paid the same money to get rid of their timeshares, but they aren't really sale-able on ebay.  

What I find appalling are the timeshares with real value, like the Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Sheraton and Hyatt timeshares that someone felt "stuck" with and paid off in full, just to get rid of them with more hard-earned cash.  Then the exit company makes big money on some of those by reselling them.  Think of that!


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## dgalati (Jul 13, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I used to be all "up in arms" over helping the postcard/exit companies to get rid of the inventory via ebay.  This changed for me, because I decided people are just really so stupid to pay someone $3,000+ to help them get out of something they should be keeping.  After all, they bought with their eyes wide open.  They had a rescission period.
> 
> These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.
> 
> ...


Ovations is a rip off to if you think about it. Wyndhams play to help a owner exit and take back for nothing. Is just as big of a ripoff. They will  resell to another unsuspecting youg couple at 30k after paying $0 for it. Industry as a whole can be described as a ripoff. Sell something at 30k that is purchased at $0. And some on this board think Ron abused the cracks in system SMH.


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## montygz (Jul 13, 2019)

To some people, selling anything on ebay or doing any work to get rid of their timeshare is akin to putting a man on the moon or building the great pyramids.

When they want to get rid of their timeshare, they just want an easy way out and the postcard companies offer that. From the looks of it, many timeshare owners fall into this camp, enough to keep these postcard and other schemes going for years.

It's better for a timeshare to be sold on ebay to someone who will pay the maintenance fees that for a timeshare to end up in a Viking ship LLC and be in legal limbo for years. People who buy resale are also likely to be more informed about the timeshare industry in general and will know how to get out when it is time to do so. Legal battles, bankruptcies and the like just increase costs that all timeshare owners pay.

In many ways, the timeshare industry is divided into two camps. People, like us, who know how to extract maximum value from timeshares by buying resale, renting, etc.

Then you have the other, less-fortunate owners who paid full retail from developers, then panic and sell to postcard companies, etc.

In any business transaction, there can be winners and losers, but in the timeshare world, the disparity is massive.

The good news is that 10 minutes of research on your smartphone can tip you into the winning side. For some, however, that is just too much effort. 

I will continue to use my timeshare to its fullest and educate anyone who asks about the pitfalls and benefits of the industry. That's about all we can do.


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## montygz (Jul 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Ovations is a rip off to if you think about it. Wyndhams play to help a owner exit and take back for nothing. Is just as big of a ripoff. They will  resell to another unsuspecting youg couple at 30k after paying $0 for it. Industry as a whole can be described as a ripoff. Sell something at 30k that is purchased at $0. And some on this board think Ron abused the cracks in system SMH.



The true value of the timeshare is likely zero, thus the owner is getting fair value through Ovations. The young couple paying $30K is getting ripped off.

 The young couple could spend a few minutes on their smartphone to find out the true value of what they are buying.  I have sympathy for them, but not as much as I would before the Internet and such easy access to information.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 13, 2019)

Many exit companies exist because not all TS companies have a Deed Back Program.  Or a Exit Program that will sell your TS in a reasonable amount of time. 
Then take into account who Exit Companies are primarily marketing to: seniors.  The advertising is not just marketed to TS owners but a subset of owners as well.  
Majority of my purchases have ended in the resale market due to life or lifestyle changes.


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## paxsarah (Jul 13, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.



Or at the very least, they could do a simple internet search and find TUG before deciding to pay a third party company to sell their timeshare on eBay.


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## bendadin (Jul 13, 2019)

But my real question is why we feel that we will be treated any better than the people who paid them to begin with.

There are more and more stories of sellers not particularly on the up and up. I'm just wondering out loud if we are really just asking for trouble.


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## SmithOp (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> But my real question is why we feel that we will be treated any better than the people who paid them to begin with.
> 
> There are more and more stories of sellers not particularly on the up and up. I'm just wondering out loud if we are really just asking for trouble.



For me its the same reason I buy a lottery ticket, its money I can afford to lose and I may come out ahead.  I bought a contract for $5 on eBay and it took 5 months to close, but I got what I wanted in the end.

I wouldn’t risk thousands on an eBay punt.

I also got a steal from a TUG ad by one of the recommended brokers here, the sellers paid $80K and only held it five years, I picked it up for $13K.  I figured it was a divorce or some other drastic life event to make someone dump it, it could have sold for over $20K.  I had more confidence since it was a licensed resale broker that handled it and everything went smoothly in 2 months.

I don’t feel bad for the sellers, they made a choice, however uninformed.  Remember what Carlin said, half the people are below average intelligence.  It doesn’t take much to educate yourself on timeshare sales.

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## CO skier (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.
> 
> What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.


Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers.  Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/308-000-Cl...657727?hash=item5d8d5d41ff:g:qYgAAOSwwo1Xe~9u

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-CLUB-ACCESS-705-000-ANNUAL-POINTS-TIMESHARE-FLORIDA-HAWAII-CALIFORNIA/383032228083?hash=item592e7ff8f3:g:Cy8AAOxydB1SkQRA
(The buyer got one heck of a deal on this auction.)

What I see when I look at these auctions are sellers who were willing to pay perhaps thousands of dollars to be rid of the yearly maintenance fee obligation and owners who will be happy with the new-to-them timeshare.  Seems like win-win to me.


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## OldGuy (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?



Guilty, but that was more than 10 years ago, and they are long gone.

(except for one)


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## OldGuy (Jul 13, 2019)

montygz said:


> I have sympathy for them, but not as much as I would before the Internet and such easy access to information.



Thank you Al Gore.


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## bendadin (Jul 13, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers.  Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw
> 
> ...



Only IF they get the points. If not, they are on the hook for a deeded contract (except for the last one) that has been recorded.


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## CO skier (Jul 13, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Only IF they get the points. If not, they are on the hook for a deeded contract (except for the last one) that has been recorded.


Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees.  You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist.  It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.

You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off.  That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 13, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees.  You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist.  It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.
> 
> You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off.  That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.



Indeed, I have purchased three different resale timeshares off of eBay from reputable sellers with nary an issue to report.  That is the point of reputation based sales engines like eBay vs relationship based sales engines like timeshare sales teams.  Logic vs emotion.  Logic wins every single time.  


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## Grammarhero (Jul 13, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees.  You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist.  It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.
> 
> You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off.  That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.



I don’t know as much about TS.  Can you explain why the CWA 705k for $500 plus $700 closing costs was a good deal?  The MF was $6.43/1k pts.


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## CO skier (Jul 13, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I don’t know as much about TS.  Can you explain why the CWA 705k for $500 plus $700 closing costs was a good deal?  The MF was $6.43/1k pts.


https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2015-will-they-close-the-deal.233917/#post-1818479

I was going to write, "It was not that long ago when CWA contracts were selling for $5-10/1000 points."  But that pricing was summer 2014.

Time flies and Club Wyndham prices have been sliding for longer than I remember.  Nevertheless, $1.69/1000 points is a good deal for someone who wants/needs CWA Advance Reservation Priority at multiple resorts, and things have definitely changed from 2015.

I thought it would take a recession to drive CWA prices down to this level.


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## dgalati (Jul 13, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers.  Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw
> 
> ...


No one is getting ripped off compared to Wyndham slam jamming a unsuspecting couple on vacation or a elderly owner that already has 2 million points that the sale weasels convinced to buy another 1 million because it was in their best interest. The new  PRIVLEGES  BS is a prime example of the marketing sales smoke and mirrors. Another level to become privileged or duped into spending 100k more?>


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## dgalati (Jul 13, 2019)

CO skier said:


> https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2015-will-they-close-the-deal.233917/#post-1818479
> 
> I was going to write, "It was not that long ago when CWA contracts were selling for $5-10/1000 points."  But that pricing was summer 2014.
> 
> ...


No value in any deed Wyndham sells. Wyndham sets the price at $0 through Ovation. Please try to understand what a deed is really worth. No one will loan squat on any deed. Contrary to what the sales weasels tell you
Good deal is to rent from a VIP for $6 per thousand instead of paying $6 per thousand or more in maintenance fees.


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## OldGuy (Jul 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> No one is getting ripped off compared to Wyndham slam jamming a unsuspecting couple on vacation or a elderly owner that already has 2 million shares that the sale weasels convinced to buy another 1 million because it was in their best interest. The new  PRIVLEGES  BS is a prime example of the marketing sales smoke and mirrors. Another level to become privileged or duped into spending 100k more?>



Careful now, you'll rile the natives.


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## CO skier (Jul 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> No value in any deed Wyndham sells. Wyndham sets the price at $0 through Ovation. Please try to understand what a deed is really worth. No one will loan squat on any deed. Contrary to what the sales weasels tell you
> Good deal is to rent from a VIP for $6 per thousand instead of paying $6 per thousand or more in maintenance fees.


I think you may have posted to the wrong thread.  This one is about exit companies selling on eBay.


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## dgalati (Jul 13, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Careful now, you'll rile the natives.


Yea they will tell me how it is a privilege to spend upwards to 100k to be a VIP. Not knocking becoming a VIP but I make what I have work for me. Not into spending more for what can be bought for a penny. Better yet what can be rented for less then paying maintenance fees.


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## OldGuy (Jul 13, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yea they will tell me how it is a privilege to spend upwards to 100k to be a VIP. Not knocking becoming a VIP but I make what I have work for me. Not into spending more for what can be bought for a penny. Better yet what can be rented for less then paying maintenance fees.



Now the natives are getting restless.


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## ronparise (Jul 14, 2019)

Things have really changed here.  Before Ovation I used to argue that the postcard companies performed a valuable service. And I don’t think anyone agreed with me. Good for the seller, good for the buyer and good for wyndham. The seller dosent have to pay maintenance fees any more, the buyer got a contract he wanted cheap and wyndham never missed a maintenance fee payment

Now the consensus seems to be that exit companies are good

Once Ovation happened I didn’t understand how they kept getting wyndham contracts but they did and I kept buying them, in spite of the fact I knew the seller got screwed

I would argue that the exit companies that deal in “paid for” contracts are screwing the sellers and the eBay buyers (you guys) are aiding and abetting. 

Having said that, I’m not allowed to say anything bad about wyndham so I won’t say wyndham has already screwed the sellers much harder than the exit companies do


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## dgalati (Jul 14, 2019)

OTE="ronparise, post: 2308751, member: 50175"]Things have really changed here.  Before Ovation I used to argue that the postcard companies performed a valuable service. And I don’t think anyone agreed with me. Good for the seller, good for the buyer and good for wyndham. The seller dosent have to pay maintenance fees any more, the buyer got a contract he wanted cheap and wyndham never missed a maintenance fee payment

Now the consensus seems to be that exit companies are good

Once Ovation happened I didn’t understand how they kept getting wyndham contracts but they did and I kept buying them, in spite of the fact I knew the seller got screwed

I would argue that the exit companies that deal in “paid for” contracts are screwing the sellers and the eBay buyers (you guys) are aiding and abetting.

Having said that, I’m not allowed to say anything bad about wyndham so I won’t say wyndham has already screwed the sellers much harder than the exit companies do[/QUOTE]

Exactly my thoughts. Wyndham is not the good guy taking back a contract for $0 they sold for 30k. They then turn around and sell it to some unsuspecting young or elderly couple on vacation for 30k again. And many feel Wyndham is helping the owner exit. Make no mistake Wyndham is helping themselves just like I do or anyone else that buys from a exit company for less then closing costs. I guess it is better then Wyndham getting it for free then shellacking another young or elderly couple for 30k.


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## SmithOp (Jul 14, 2019)

ronparise said:


> Things have really changed here.
> 
> Having said that, I’m not allowed to say anything bad about wyndham so I won’t say wyndham has already screwed the sellers much harder than the exit companies do



We see what you did there Ron!


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## CO skier (Jul 14, 2019)

ronparise said:


> Things have really changed here.


Not really.  There were similar threads and opinions in 2013.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ed-points-used-by-seller.194166/#post-1487237

If an owner wants to unload their Wyndham timeshare, and they do not know about Ovation, and no one buys their timeshare on eBay or anywhere else, what are they left with?  Ongoing maintenance fees.  Stop paying the maintenance fees and go into foreclosure?

The seller got screwed when they paid $20,000 or more for a timeshare that might be worth $1 on the resale market.

I do not see how the seller loses out by avoiding default and foreclosure by selling their timeshare through eBay or any other reseller.  The buyer set the seller free from their maintenance fee obligation.


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## OldGuy (Jul 14, 2019)

ain't timesharing fun


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## CO skier (Jul 14, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> ain't timesharing fun


I could not vacation like a Rockefeller without my timeshares.


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## OldGuy (Jul 14, 2019)

CO skier said:


> I could not vacation like a Rockefeller without my timeshares.



Well, in the Winter we live where the Vanderbilts used to raise cattle.  Does that count?


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## bnoble (Jul 14, 2019)

ronparise said:


> Once Ovation happened I didn’t understand how they kept getting wyndham contracts


Market information isn't perfect, nor are people fully rational. So it goes.


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## kaljor (Jul 14, 2019)

I bought all three of my contracts on e-Bay.  Presumably listed by a Timeshare Exit firm.  I don't know what was paid to this firm to get rid of the timeshare, but even if its 3 or 4 thousand dollars, that seller made the decision that it was worth it to get rid of something they no longer wanted and had become a lifetime liability for them.  They made the decision that paying $4k to get rid of an annual $1k fee was worth it to them, and in fact, they were correct.  For their situation.  Their lack of knowledge about how to get rid of timeshares may have led them to this flawed method of divestiture, but we are all adults here and sometimes we all may overpay for something because of our lack of in depth knowledge.  Like your first new car or your first engagement ring or your first house.  We can all end up overpaying for an asset because of an imbalance in knowledge between the seller and buyer. I don't consider that a ripoff.  To be a ripoff there has to be an element of stealing or fraud.

Ironically, at a recent Wyndham sales session, the salesman actually asked me if I felt bad paying the seller only pennies on the dollar for their timeshare.  I said no, I felt like a hero for relieving them of their Maintenance fees forever.  Unbelievably, he came back to this line of discussion again, and I replied that I had paid the seller more than Wyndham was willing to pay.  You may think I'm exaggerating, but he actually brought it up a third time, and I just disregarded it.  

I do find these sales sessions fascinating.  And lucrative!


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## Aurelius (Jul 15, 2019)

> Like your first new car or your first engagement ring...



Factoring in divorce costs my 2nd engagement ring purchase was definitely more expensive...


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## kaljor (Jul 15, 2019)

Well all I can advise is watch out for the third one!!


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## Jimag (Jul 15, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers.  Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw
> 
> ...



Just curious, why do you say that the reseller offering 419,000 points at Oceanside pier is reputable.  The resellers' Ebay ID was registered in December 2018 and has feedback from only one buyer.  I would want to do some research on these folks before I would consider making a purchase from them.  I do not know whether this reseller is reliable, but I was burned for several thousand dollars by a Missouri reseller d/b/a The Transfer Group.  It's Ebay ID was thetransfergroup.  The Transfer Group changed its Ebay ID to nationaltsbroker.  Nationaltsbroker's email was nationaltimesharebroker@gmail.com.  Due diligence is definitely in order before making a move on any resale through Ebay.  I've made several successful timeshare purchases on Ebay, but being burned has made me very cautious.  One safeguard would be to require funds to be paid into an escrow account with a third party.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Jimag said:


> One safeguard would be to require funds to be paid into an escrow account with a third party.


This is a must when buying. I always recommend buyer placing monies due in a escrow account for everyones benifit.


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## OldGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> This is a must when buying. I always recommend buyer placing monies due in a escrow account for everyones benifit.



It's encouraging that there is actually money involved in some _resales.

_


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## CO skier (Jul 15, 2019)

Jimag said:


> Just curious, why do you say that the reseller offering 419,000 points at Oceanside pier is reputable.  The resellers' Ebay ID was registered in December 2018 and has feedback from only one buyer.  I would want to do some research on these folks before I would consider making a purchase from them.


That was a poor example.  Thanks for pointing that out.  I have edited the post with a reseller that I have done business with before.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> It's encouraging that there is actually money involved in some _resales.
> 
> _


Only when I sell, $50-$100 max when I buy


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## OldGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Only when I sell, $50-$100 max when I buy



I'm not greedy.  

I _sell _for nothing, or less than nothing, and rent out for less than the maintenance fee.  I have been successful at this so far, but it takes a lot of work.


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## Braindead (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> This is a must when buying. I always recommend buyer placing monies due in a escrow account for everyones benifit.


You do, please show me where you’ve advised this in the past as I can’t find it.


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## Braindead (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> No value in any deed Wyndham sell


You say $0 value in any deed Wyndham sells.
Why do you need a third party escrow co for $0?? What funds are they holding


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## Braindead (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Only when I sell, $50-$100 max when I buy


Looks like another false statement. I couldn’t stay quiet any longer as I’m so tired of your BS!!!!!!!!
I bet you used Sumday escrow co also!! Please tell us the independent escrow co you used for the $323


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> View attachment 12879
> Looks like another false statement. I couldn’t stay quiet any longer as I’m so tired of your BS!!!!!!!!
> I bet you used Sumday escrow co also!! Please tell us the independent escrow co you used for the $323


Your comment is foolish and ignorant.  Dont read my posts or put me back on ignore. That was a purchase from last year 2/2018 if you knew anything about trading deeds price is higher after January and always lower from Oct-Dec.


Braindead said:


> You do, please show me where you’ve advised this in the past as I can’t find it.


Your a troll. Put me back on ignore if you dont like my posts!


Braindead said:


> View attachment 12879
> Looks like another false statement. I couldn’t stay quiet any longer as I’m so tired of your BS!!!!!!!!
> I bet you used Sumday escrow co also!! Please tell us the independent escrow co you used for the $323





Braindead said:


> View attachment 12879
> Looks like another false statement. I couldn’t stay quiet any longer as I’m so tired of your BS!!!!!!!!
> I bet you used Sumday escrow co also!! Please tell us the independent escrow co you used for the $323


More troll like behavior.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> View attachment 12879
> Looks like another false statement. I couldn’t stay quiet any longer as I’m so tired of your BS!!!!!!!!
> I bet you used Sumday escrow co also!! Please tell us the independent escrow co you used for the $323


Disclaimer  2019 pricing is lower then in spring of 2018. Unless you buy developer points and need status. We all know what status is. I can remind you what was posted as status it compared corn kernels......


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## Sandi Bo (Jul 15, 2019)

I have a friend that offered to give me her Bonnet Creek odd year contract if I paid the transfer and closing costs. It was pure coincidence she knew I owned Wyndham. She is a former co-worker that mentioned in chit chat at the coffee pot that she was going to Bonnet Creek, this was years ago. She contacted me a few months ago asking if I wanted it. She just wanted to be done with the maintenance fees - she wanted out as fast as possible. I think it was 168K every other year. I pointed her to Ovation. It made more sense to be free of it, rather than try to sell it, taking months closing, IMO.  I felt guilty not having her post it here on TUG, but it seemed so much easier to give it back and be done with it.

Maybe I am naive, but I figure there are people that would rather get a couple bucks selling through an exit company rather than give their deed back to Wyndham. Not the case for my friend. But if none of my heirs want our account, I expect it to be the case for me, for some of our contracts, some day. I also expect to give a few back to Wyndham, if Ovations is still around. I sure don't plan to pay anyone to take it off my hands


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## MaryBella7 (Jul 15, 2019)

I advertised 2 contracts to give away. One was on the inexpensive end for maintenance. The other was average. No one wanted the average one, so Ovations it was. The other took longer for the transfer, so I had to pay the MF in the meantime, so it ended up costing me more than the Ovations one in the long run. I don't regret it because a person is hopefully enjoying the points as opposed to Wyndham selling them, but Ovations works in many cases.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Sandi Bo said:


> I have a friend that offered to give me her Bonnet Creek odd year contract if I paid the transfer and closing costs. It was pure coincidence she knew I owned Wyndham. She is a former co-worker that mentioned in chit chat at the coffee pot that she was going to Bonnet Creek, this was years ago. She contacted me a few months ago asking if I wanted it. She just wanted to be done with the maintenance fees - she wanted out as fast as possible. I think it was 168K every other year. I pointed her to Ovation. It made more sense to be free of it, rather than try to sell it, taking months closing, IMO.  I felt guilty not having her post it here on TUG, but it seemed so much easier to give it back and be done with it.
> 
> Maybe I am naive, but I figure there are people that would rather get a couple bucks selling through an exit company rather than give their deed back to Wyndham. Not the case for my friend. But if none of my heirs want our account, I expect it to be the case for me, for some of our contracts, some day. I also expect to give a few back to Wyndham, if Ovations is still around. I sure don't plan to pay anyone to take it off my hands



Unfortunately Many don't know about ovations they will pay 3k-4k to have a exit company take it off their hands. I have bought many deeds from these companies or a third party at less then closing and resort transfer fees. I tried to give some deeds back to Wyndham thru Ovations this year but they wouldn't take them. I was told I needed to own them for 1 year. Listed them on tug and sold them to a preferred Wyndham broker who paid me $$$. The third party buyer was Wyndham. Deeds recorded at 8 am were transferred and recorded 2-3 hours latter to Wyndham. Still smh but it worked out good for me.


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## Braindead (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Your comment is foolish and ignorant.  Dont read my posts or put me back on ignore. That was a purchase from last year 2/2018 if you knew anything about trading deeds price is higher after January and always lower from Oct-Dec.
> Your a troll. Put me back on ignore if you dont like my posts!
> More troll like behavior.


Oh what’s wrong did the FACTS catch you with your pants down.
Try posting informative facts instead of made up crap post & false claims

I own have over 5,000,000 points with MFs under $6 per 1k points, please post a Fact on how it would be cheaper for me to rent from a VIP at $6 per 1k points.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Oh what’s wrong did the FACTS catch you with your pants down.
> Try posting informative facts instead of made up crap post & false claims
> 
> I own have over 5,000,000 points with MFs under $6 per 1k points, please post a Fact on how it would be cheaper for to rent from a VIP at $6 per 1k points.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Oh what’s wrong did the FACTS catch you with your pants down.
> Try posting informative facts instead of made up crap post & false claims
> 
> I own have over 5,000,000 points with MFs under $6 per 1k points, please post a Fact on how it would be cheaper for me to rent from a VIP at $6 per 1k


Your the type of owner I rent from. If you  Bought more pounts then you can use and rent for less then it costs for maintenance fees in box me.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> Oh what’s wrong did the FACTS catch you with your pants down.
> Try posting informative facts instead of made up crap post & false claims
> 
> I own have over 5,000,000 points with MFs under $6 per 1k points, please post a Fact on how it would be cheaper for me to rent from a VIP at $6 per 1k points.



You pay $30k a year for Wyndham 5 million pts?  Do you live in your TS full-time?  Just curious.  

I have 192k pts with MF at $6.3/1k pts, all $1 resale, with sellers covering 75% closing and transfer costs.  wife is still mad at me.  She forgives me when we are on our vacations.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 15, 2019)

I see DeniseM cleaning this up.  


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> You pay $30k a year for Wyndham 5 million pts?  Do you live in your TS full-time?  Just curious.  I have 192k pts with MF at $6.3/1k pts, and wife is still mad at me.  She forgives me once we are on our vacations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds insane to pay that much for staus?


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## Braindead (Jul 15, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> You pay $30k a year for Wyndham 5 million pts?  Do you live in your TS full-time?  Just curious.
> 
> I have 192k pts with MF at $6.3/1k pts, all $1 resale, with sellers covering 75% closing and transfer costs.  wife is still mad at me.  She forgives me when we are on our vacations.


We travel often but do not live in TS. 
I’ve never rented to a stranger. 
We use a lot of points, the rest are used by family & friends.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> We travel often but do not live in TS.
> I’ve never rented to a stranger.
> We use a lot of points, the rest are used by family & friends.


Nice of you to be generous to your family and friends.  I let family stay in two of my TS for free.  I honestly enjoy seeing them.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> You pay $30k a year for Wyndham 5 million pts?  Do you live in your TS full-time?  Just curious.
> 
> I have 192k pts with MF at $6.3/1k pts, all $1 resale, with sellers covering 75% closing and transfer costs.  wife is still mad at me.  She forgives me when we are on our vacations.
> 
> ...


Your saying you paid a dollar and seller paid $375 of the closing. So the total cost $126?
Not a bad deal . Until you factor in you can rent from a VIP for less the maintenance fees.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Your saying you paid a dollar and seller paid $375 of the closing. So the total cost $126?
> Not a bad deal . Until you factor in you can rent from a VIP for less the maintenance fees.


I don’t disagree. Maybe it’s just my head or ego.  Even though there’s an exit strategy, I just like owning versus renting.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> You pay $30k a year for Wyndham 5 million pts?  Do you live in your TS full-time?  Just curious.
> 
> I have 192k pts with MF at $6.3/1k pts, all $1 resale, with sellers covering 75% closing and transfer costs.  wife is still mad at me.  She forgives me when we are on our vacations.
> 
> ...





Grammarhero said:


> I don’t disagree. Maybe it’s just my head or ego.  Even though there’s an exit strategy, I just like owning versus renting.


I agree I also own but rent when it is cheaper to.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I don’t disagree. Maybe it’s just my head or ego.  Even though there’s an exit strategy, I just like owning versus renting.


Its easy to exit when you paid .0007 per point.


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Its easy to exit when you paid .0007 per point.


You could pay closing costs and give away for free and still be ahead. LOL


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## dgalati (Jul 15, 2019)

Braindead said:


> We travel often but do not live in TS.
> I’ve never rented to a stranger.
> We use a lot of points, the rest are used by family & friends.


If you want to gift them


OldGuy said:


> I'm not greedy.
> 
> I _sell _for nothing, or less than nothing, and rent out for less than the maintenance fee.  I have been successful at this so far, but it takes a lot of work.


I like your strategy.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> If you want to gift them
> 
> I like your strategy.



I see you’re from OH.  Now that Apple Valley closed, what local TS resorts do you go to?  I have an EY DRI South Bend Red float TS.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 15, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Your saying you paid a dollar and seller paid $375 of the closing. So the total cost $126?
> Not a bad deal . Until you factor in you can rent from a VIP for less the maintenance fees.



Why would any VIP rent for less than their MFs?  Most everyone I am aware of rents between $6-8/1000 points wholesale, retail at higher prices for higher demand times and locations.


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## CO skier (Jul 15, 2019)

This was an interesting thread about post card companies while it lasted.  Like threads years ago that regularly got hijacked by renters boasting about their rental businesses, Wyndham threads now get hijacked by a poster(s) with their own, individual agenda that has nothing to do with anything.


dgalati said:


> Until you factor in you can rent from a VIP for less the maintenance fees.


You need to get up-to-date.  "Renting for less than maintenance fees" was a (big) thing before April, 2017 when automatic upgrades were introduced.

Now, "Renting for less than maintenance fees" depends on what is/becomes available within 60 days.  Just ask the megarenters that are still in business.

There is only one 4 BR Presidential at my home resort.  I cannot rent it from anyone at any price and neither can anyone else, because I book it using my points at 13 months and hold onto it for my personal use.


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## capital city (Jul 16, 2019)

Not sure what everyone is talking about. I assume your all responding to someone I blocked months ago.


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## CO skier (Jul 16, 2019)

capital city said:


> Not sure what everyone is talking about. I assume your all responding to someone I blocked months ago.


Yes (presumably).  You are not missing anything.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 16, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Yes (presumably).  You are not missing anything.



I disagree.  The fight between braindead and dgalati was pretty entertaining.  They both seem like genuine dudes though.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Why would any VIP rent for less than their MFs?  Most everyone I am aware of rents between $6-8/1000 points wholesale, retail at higher prices for higher demand times and locations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If your not a vip and rent in the 60 day window with the 50% discount given. That is 50% less then what it would cost a non vip owner in maintenance fees. $6 x 154,000 or $6 x 77,000.


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## bendadin (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Unfortunately Many don't know about ovations they will pay 3k-4k to have a exit company take it off their hands. I have bought many deeds from these companies or a third party at less then closing and resort transfer fees. I tried to give some deeds back to Wyndham thru Ovations this year but they wouldn't take them. I was told I needed to own them for 1 year. Listed them on tug and sold them to a preferred Wyndham broker who paid me $$$. The third party buyer was Wyndham. Deeds recorded at 8 am were transferred and recorded 2-3 hours latter to Wyndham. Still smh but it worked out good for me.



Are your contracts still canceled? Or are you still half million points in the negative?


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> If *your *not a vip and rent in the 60 day window with the 50% discount given. That is 50% less then what it would cost a non vip owner in maintenance fees. $6 x 154,000 or $6 x 77,000.



your = possessive
you're = contraction of you are


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> your = possessive
> you're = contraction of you are


I concede you're correct.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

bendadin said:


> Are your contracts still canceled? Or are you still half million points in the negative?


615,700 negative for 2019 still. I do have a few deeds in account. Points will zero out Jan 1st of 2020. I also have been able to log back in the Wyndham site and can go to the RCI exchanges login.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> 615,700 negative for 2019 still. I do have a few deeds in account. Points will zero out Jan 1st of 2020. I also have been able to log back in the Wyndham site and can go to the RCI exchanges login.



Forgive my relative ignorance.  How do you get negative points?


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## bendadin (Jul 16, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Forgive my relative ignorance.  How do you get negative points?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



From what I can piece together, he gets deeds from people who want out, strips the points, and gives them back to Wyndham stripped.Looks like he has established precedence in this behavior. But that is just what it looks like to me.


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## Grammarhero (Jul 16, 2019)

bendadin said:


> From what I can piece together, he gets deeds from people who want out, strips the points, and gives them back to Wyndham stripped.Looks like he has established precedence in this behavior. But that is just what it looks like to me.



Forgive my ignorance again.  Is Wyndham’s Ovations program presuming the points haven’t been used or stripped yet?  if you strip or use the points before Ovations, you get a negative balance?  


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Forgive my ignorance again.  Is Wyndham’s Ovations program presuming the points haven’t been used or stripped yet?  if you strip or use the points before Ovations, you get a negative balance?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


New system doesn't recognize that all points have been used for the current year. Bucket of points is empty but when a contract is sold system shows all points going to new owner even if none are available.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

bendadin said:


> From what I can piece together, he gets deeds from people who want out, strips the points, and gives them back to Wyndham stripped.Looks like he has established precedence in this behavior. But that is just what it looks like to me.


I personally use the points or transfer points to RCI to be used at a latter date. Then I give the deeds away or sell them with no points available for the current use year. This years pricing has been at the lowest I have seen. I have not used Ovations because you need to own the deed for a year before they will take it back thru Ovations.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Forgive my relative ignorance.  How do you get negative points?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its impossible to use more points then what is available. The new system will not let you do it. You can blame this on Ron lol.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> New system doesn't recognize that all points have been used for the current year. Bucket of points is empty but when a contract is sold system shows all points going to new owner even if none are available.



So what is the practical effect of this?  Are you somehow able to obtain points that were actually used during the current use year by the previous contract owner into your own current use year account?  So effectively you are getting free points?  Just trying to understand the goal here.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> If your not a vip and rent in the 60 day window with the 50% discount given. That is 50% less then what it would cost a non vip owner in maintenance fees. $6 x 154,000 or $6 x 77,000.



Hmmm.  I've not rented much at all to any third parties to date, but it seems like the vast majority of people who rent, rent well outside of the 60 day discount window, so this use case would apply to a minority of renters.


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## bnoble (Jul 16, 2019)

capital city said:


> Not sure what everyone is talking about. I assume your all responding to someone I blocked months ago.


I have a number of Wyndham forum "frequent fliers" in my ignore list. It does make threads hard to follow, but my blood pressure is better.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Hmmm.  I've not rented much at all to any third parties to date, but it seems like the vast majority of people who rent, rent well outside of the 60 day discount window, so this use case would apply to a minority of renters.


I have made it work for me so I can say I am in that minority of renters. Instead of using 200,000 of my points at a urban location, Midtown 45 as a example, I can rent from a VIP in the 60 day window at $6 x 100,000 points or 1/2 the cost of paying maintenance fees on my points. Its all in the way you want to make it work. Some buy into VIP and pay thousands in maintenance fees a year. If it works for them great. I prefer to pay resale prices on deeds, I also like to rent within the 60 day window if the 50% point discount is passed on to me and if possible pay no maintenance fees on points I have used.


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## Braindead (Jul 16, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Forgive my relative ignorance.  How do you get negative points?





bendadin said:


> From what I can piece together, he gets deeds from people who want out, strips the points, and gives them back to Wyndham stripped.Looks like he has established precedence in this behavior. But that is just what it looks like to me.





Grammarhero said:


> Forgive my ignorance again.  Is Wyndham’s Ovations program presuming the points haven’t been used or stripped yet?  if you strip or use the points before Ovations, you get a negative balance?


I would advise to not take anything that dgalati post as fact!!
It’s clear that he makes false claims

I don’t want anyone to take dgalati post as fact & end up with the opposite result with Wyndham!!!!!!!!!


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## Braindead (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> So what is the practical effect of this?  Are you somehow able to obtain points that were actually used during the current use year by the previous contract owner into your own current use year account?  So effectively you are getting free points?  Just trying to understand the goal here.


Same advice for you & all Wyndham owners !!!!!!!!


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## Braindead (Jul 16, 2019)

Something for all owners to consider 

If dgalati claims are factual, why would he pay rent to VIPs if he can generate free points every year?????
Dgalati claims make no sense to me


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## Grammarhero (Jul 16, 2019)

So as I understand it, dgalati gets Wyndham TS for free or close to free, uses or deposits Wyndham pts into RCI, then sells the stripped TS to a Wyndham broker?


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## Braindead (Jul 16, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> So as I understand it, dgalati gets Wyndham TS for free or close to free, uses or deposits Wyndham pts into RCI, then sells the stripped TS to a Wyndham broker?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m sorry but I think you’re pretty naive if you believe Wyndham allows that to happen


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Hmmm.  I've not rented much at all to any third parties to date, but it seems like the vast majority of people who rent, rent well outside of the 60 day discount window, so this use case would apply to a minority of renters.



Except for a few reservations for high demand weeks, most of my rentals are reservations made inside the 60 day discount/upgrade window.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> Except for a few reservations for high demand weeks, most of my rentals are reservations made inside the 60 day discount/upgrade window.



And when you do this, what do you charge?  Do you charge based upon the 50% points discount times some predetermined amount of $/1000 points?  Or do you charge based upon the full points amount and not whatever discounted amount of points, and in the process maximize your rental income?


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> Except for a few reservations for high demand weeks, most of my rentals are reservations made inside the 60 day discount/upgrade window.


Thats getting the most out of the VIP benefit. Do you pass along the 50% discount or does it depend on the customer.


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Thats getting the most out of the VIP benefit. Do you pass along the 50% discount or does it depend on the customer.



Think about what you are asking!!  It can't depend on the customer because when I make and price a reservation, I don't HAVE a customer.  I'm hoping to GET a customer!


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Thats getting the most out of the VIP benefit. Do you pass along the 50% discount or does it depend on the customer.



Think about what you are asking!!  It can't depend on the customer because when I make and price a reservation, I don't HAVE a customer.  I'm hoping to GET a customer!

I plug the number of points into a formula that gives me a starting price.  Then I check around for similar listings.


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> And when you do this, what do you charge?  Do you charge based upon the 50% points discount times some predetermined amount of $/1000 points?  Or do you charge based upon the full points amount and not whatever discounted amount of points, and in the process maximize your rental income?



It's a formula price based on the number of points used, but I adjust for the market and for what I think a Dad might be willing to pay.  Except for a few high demand or event weeks, I've found that renting "full price" reservations is nearly impossible.  "Dad" isn't likely to pay over $3,000 for a week in a 2BR Presidential unit in Clearwater Beach in January.  But, I've got one and will list it -- maybe I'm wrong!  It will probably be canceled to free up points for a reservation inside the 60 day window.


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## TUGBrian (Jul 16, 2019)

play nice children...keep it on topic or dont post.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> It's a formula price based on the number of points used, but I adjust for the market and for what I think a Dad might be willing to pay.  Except for a few high demand or event weeks, I've found that renting "full price" reservations is nearly impossible.  "Dad" isn't likely to pay over $3,000 for a week in a 2BR Presidential unit in Clearwater Beach in January.  But, I've got one and will list it -- maybe I'm wrong!  It will probably be canceled to free up points for a reservation inside the 60 day window.


Sounds like a good strategy. Nothing to lose if it dosent rent. Rebook in the 60 day window and offer a better value with the 50% discount. Many rooms become available still at the 15-18 day mark. Many will let reservations go before they lose points if they have not rented at the 15 day cut off.


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

I'm not "re-booking" -- at least not in the classical sense of cancel and re-book.  Booking a new reservation is not dependent on my cancellation returning to inventory.  I'm cancelling a reservation at one resort and probably booking at a different resort and likely as not, at a different time.

None of it matters for the rest of 2019.  I'm out of points and had to buy 6,000 points ($72) to make my last reservation.  I have 22,750 points available for 2020.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> I'm not "re-booking" -- at least not in the classical sense of cancel and re-book.  Booking a new reservation is not dependent on my cancellation returning to inventory.  I'm cancelling a reservation at one resort and probably booking at a different resort and likely as not, at a different time.
> 
> None of it matters for the rest of 2019.  I'm out of points and had to buy 6,000 points ($72) to make my last reservation.  I have 22,750 points available for 2020.


Yes understand what your saying. Cancel a reservation you can not rent to book another at the 60 day discount. Sounds like you have found a way to make it work for you.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 16, 2019)

chapjim said:


> It's a formula price based on the number of points used, but I adjust for the market and for what I think a Dad might be willing to pay.  Except for a few high demand or event weeks, I've found that renting "full price" reservations is nearly impossible.  "Dad" isn't likely to pay over $3,000 for a week in a 2BR Presidential unit in Clearwater Beach in January.  But, I've got one and will list it -- maybe I'm wrong!  It will probably be canceled to free up points for a reservation inside the 60 day window.



What would you define as a “full price” reservation?  Reason being I’m going to venture into renting once my resale contract hits my account later this year.  Feel free to PM me directly so we don’t fill up this thread with a sideline convo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chapjim (Jul 16, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> What would you define as a “full price” reservation?  Reason being I’m going to venture into renting once my resale contract hits my account later this year.  Feel free to PM me directly so we don’t fill up this thread with a sideline convo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No discount, no upgrade.  Points as listed in the directory.


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## dgalati (Jul 17, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> So as I understand it, dgalati gets Wyndham TS for free or close to free, uses or deposits Wyndham pts into RCI, then sells the stripped TS to a Wyndham broker?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes this is correct. Wyndham was the third party buyer on a few but not all. Wyndham would not take them back ovations because they were not owned for at least 1 year.


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 17, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yes this is correct. Wyndham was the third party buyer on a few but not all. Wyndham would not take them back ovations because they were not owned for at least 1 year.


So, you use the points for your rental business.  As I suspected, when you tell people to rent from a VIP, at the end of the chain, you are the person they go to and rent from.  Now I get all the 'rent from a VIP' statements, you are advertising your own business.


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## paxsarah (Jul 17, 2019)

Cyrus24 said:


> So, you use the points for your rental business.  As I suspected, when you tell people to rent from a VIP, at the end of the chain, you are the person they go to and rent from.  Now I get all the 'rent from a VIP' statements, you are advertising your own business.



While I find the incessant "rent from a VIP" responses as irritating as anyone, I don't believe they are personally VIP and therefore a rental business such as you posit would be consistently undercut by...VIPs.


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## OldGuy (Jul 17, 2019)

Wow!  Things have gotten soooo complicated.


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## dgalati (Jul 17, 2019)

Cyrus24 said:


> So, you use the points for your rental business.  As I suspected, when you tell people to rent from a VIP, at the end of the chain, you are the person they go to and rent from.  Now I get all the 'rent from a VIP' statements, you are advertising your own business.


Cyrus24 that was a pretty false and misleading post and assumption. How did you get to this conclusion? Please don't post false and misleading information that was never said. Let me make it clear for the "brain dead" on this board. I do not have a rental business, I do not rent my points and I use all my points for my personal use. I do rent from a VIP when its cheaper then using my own points.


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## dgalati (Jul 17, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> While I find the incessant "rent from a VIP" responses as irritating as anyone, I don't believe they are personally VIP and therefore a rental business such as you posit would be consistently undercut by...VIPs.


Paxsarah thanks for trying be the voice of reason and you are correct.  I am not a VIP but I do rent from VIP members. I also do not rent any of my points and all my points are used by me personally.


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## Richelle (Jul 17, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Ovations is a rip off to if you think about it. Wyndhams play to help a owner exit and take back for nothing. Is just as big of a ripoff. They will  resell to another unsuspecting youg couple at 30k after paying $0 for it. Industry as a whole can be described as a ripoff. Sell something at 30k that is purchased at $0. And some on this board think Ron abused the cracks in system SMH.



So what do you think an Owner who wants out, should do with a contract no one wants?  Or maybe a contract they can sell for a couple hundred bucks, only to have that “profit” eaten up by closing costs, transfer fees, or the maintenance fees you pay waiting for the transfer to finish. They give an owner an easy cheap out. They don’t force them to use Ovations. I agree it does allow Wyndham to double dip. They benefit from it as well. It’s called a win win. The customer doesn’t get ripped off and doesn’t have to pay to unload my timeshare. Wyndham gets free inventory to resell. I have a small resale contract that I am giving them. No one would pay $200 in closing and $299 in transfer fees for a 64,000 point contract. I didn’t pay it when I got it. So I would have to pay to get out if it. With Ovations, I don’t pay anything. Works for me. 

Yes, Wyndham doesn’t buy anything back, but I never expected then to. Do you expect the developer who built your house, to buy it back when you don’t want it?  Of course not. I had no illusions walking into the timeshare game. I knew that I was not going to make my money back by selling or that Wyndham would buy it back. Ovations is better then me paying to get unload a contract. 


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## Cyrus24 (Jul 17, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I do not have a rental business, I do not rent my points and I use all my points for my personal use.


I don't happen to believe you, AND, I'm entitled to my own opinion.  Which is all I ever stated, my opinion.  Not that my opinion matters to you or anyone else.  BTW, nothing wrong with a rental business, I enjoy reading about those who make the system work for them.


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## OldGuy (Jul 17, 2019)

I get a kick out of timesharing being compared to anything else . . . cars, houses, etc. . . . . .


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## dgalati (Jul 17, 2019)

Richelle said:


> So what do you think an Owner who wants out, should do with a contract no one wants?  Or maybe a contract they can sell for a couple hundred bucks, only to have that “profit” eaten up by closing costs, transfer fees, or the maintenance fees you pay waiting for the transfer to finish. They give an owner an easy cheap out. They don’t force them to use Ovations. I agree it does allow Wyndham to double dip. They benefit from it as well. It’s called a win win. The customer doesn’t get ripped off and doesn’t have to pay to unload my timeshare. Wyndham gets free inventory to resell. I have a small resale contract that I am giving them. No one would pay $200 in closing and $299 in transfer fees for a 64,000 point contract. I didn’t pay it when I got it. So I would have to pay to get out if it. With Ovations, I don’t pay anything. Works for me.
> 
> Yes, Wyndham doesn’t buy anything back, but I never expected then to. Do you expect the developer who built your house, to buy it back when you don’t want it?  Of course not. I had no illusions walking into the timeshare game. I knew that I was not going to make my money back by selling or that Wyndham would buy it back. Ovations is better then me paying to get unload a contract.
> 
> ...


Wyndham does buy back through third parties. They dont pay much but its better then $0 through ovations.


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## Braindead (Jul 17, 2019)

View attachment 12914 View attachment 12915


Cyrus24 said:


> So, you use the points for your rental business.  As I suspected, when you tell people to rent from a VIP, at the end of the chain, you are the person they go to and rent from.  Now I get all the 'rent from a VIP' statements, you are advertising your own business.





paxsarah said:


> While I find the incessant "rent from a VIP" responses as irritating as anyone, I don't believe they are personally VIP and therefore a rental business such as you posit would be consistently undercut by...VIPs.


Let’s take a closer look at dgalati claims.
 dgalati  has posted his uncle is a VIP - Funny depending on the uncles ownership his uncle is probably making money on dgalati at $6 per 1k points
My nieces & nephews don’t pay a dime. There’s absolutely no reason for my family to buy contracts as I even give them my login info if they want to look around for themselves & book anything they want

Looks like in the first & second screen shots dgalati is whining he isn’t generating free points as he CLAIMES because screenshot four shows a contract transferred in to his account in December taking care of all the negative points. He used the points alright to take care of all the negatives

 dgalati claims all the great deals he’s made for $50 earlier this year but they’re even year contracts so he’s paying 9 months or more of MFs before the use year begins!!!  LOL I’d say Sumday & Wyndham have played dgalati like a fiddle oh I forgot I think your uncle has too!! LOL



dgalati said:


> Cyrus24 that was a pretty false and misleading post and assumption. How did you get to this conclusion? Please don't post false and misleading information that was never said. Let me make it clear for the "brain dead" on this board. I do not have a rental business, I do not rent my points and I use all my points for my personal use. I do rent from a VIP when its cheaper then using my own points.


Dgalati if you want to hear about a great deal, a few months ago on eBay I bought a 750,000+ Canterbury annual contract for under $2.50 per 1k points all in.
Yes I know it was more than $50 all in but I happen to think Wyndham contracts do have value not $0 as you claim

Brian, I think this is on topic & I really don’t think your post was an adult post dad


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## OldGuy (Jul 17, 2019)

Why not just meet at high noon out in front of the saloon?


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## geist1223 (Jul 17, 2019)

Time to close the thread and everybody move on.


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## Richelle (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Wyndham does buy back through third parties. They dont pay much but its better then $0 through ovations.



Which third party?  What is the company name?  What contracts do they buy back?  I doubt they would buy my 64,000 point contract at Ocean Boulevard. 


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

Richelle said:


> Which third party?  What is the company name?  What contracts do they buy back?  I doubt they would buy my 64,000 point contract at Ocean Boulevard.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sent all info in a private message. I included the info from Wyndhams website also.


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

.


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## OldGuy (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> .



..


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> ..


...


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