# Legit TUG Marketplace Rental Ad Removed



## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

So, as I have posted over the past few months, I have been in the process of buying an HGVC Deed at Valdoro, with the intent on renting out the Fixed Ski week.  A week or so ago I placed an ad on the TUG Marketplace and the ad appeared either that day or the next.  I noticed a few days later that the ad had been removed.  When I inquired why through email I was told I needed to provide a copy of the reservation.  

Because I had just bough the deed and the week was placed in my account without a reservation being processed through HGVC there was not a reservation email sent to me.  I accessed the HGVC website and saved my reservation as a pdf, which clearly showed my name, reservation #, resort and dates.  The way that the page is formatted for printing my email was cut off.  I was told this wasn't acceptable.  

Ok so I email a jpeg from the app on my phone that shows all the same info, but does not show an email.  Again was told this wasn't acceptable proof for the listing.  Didn't understand that, but I offer to have the broker who sold me this week confirm who I am and I own the week, but would not provide any proof that I have the reservation.  TUG agreed to this with "yes, we would!"  Before I dragged her into this I figured I would try to call HGVC and see if they could send me a email confirmation and they could and did within minutes.  Problem solved.  

Well not so fast.  TUG now says because I use different email addresses for HGVC and TUG, the email directly from HGVC isn't acceptable.  I get that we need to be careful with the number of scammers in the world today, but I feel that I have gone beyond in providing proof of ownership and of the reservation.  It's ironic that I got my TUG renewal notice over the weekend and they apparently can process my credit card payment, not knowing who I am but I provide them three forms of proof that I have a reservation and they won't work with me.  I guess the ads here are free for a reason.  As my pappy said, you get what you pay for.


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## bnoble (Sep 27, 2021)

Using the site to complain about the site is a choice, I guess.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

bnoble said:


> Using the site to complain about the site is a choice, I guess.



I've gained a lot of good information from this site and also shared extensive information on this site.  I'm frustrated that I have provided them what they asked for and they seem to make up rules along the way.  It's a bit mind boggling.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 27, 2021)

as explained in the numerous emails i see going back and forth, you failed literally every effort made to confirm your rental confirmation.

first you claimed Hilton was not able to provide any email confirmation (news to us, we get them all the time...also see below)
then you provided a screenshot with your contact details cut off
then a screenshot from your phone also missing contact details

then finally you produced said email from Hilton, and the emails did not match your membership.  to which we informed you that we do not permit rental ads with non matching emails in the marketplace.  Even after explaining this all to you over the course of 3 days (based on the email dates), you informed us you could not be bothered to change the emails and that you had already wasted too much time sofar and that our rules were a "joke"

I will again repost the email response from earlier today that not only addressed your issue, but completely explained why the rules exist in the first place.



> I am sorry that you feel our rules are cumbersome, however 99.9999999% of all members never encounter any such issues, whereas implementing these simple rules eliminates a very significant % of rental scams.  We feel the tradeoff is well worth it however certainly apologize that you feel its a "joke".
> 
> With thousands of active ads, we can perhaps count on one hand how many members encounter such an issue.  Requesting a rental confirmation email from the resort, and verifying that the contact details all match is one of the most basic and necessary steps of verification for any rental.  We would urge ANY potential renter to avoid any ad where an owner considered it inconvenient and or refused to provide said confirmation etc.
> 
> ...


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

TUGBrian said:


> as explained in the numerous emails i see going back and forth, you failed literally every effort made to confirm your rental confirmation.
> 
> *first you claimed Hilton was not able to provide any email confirmation (news to us, we get them all the time...also see below)* - I explained that I never received an email from HGVC, as I never actually made a reservation.  This is a Fixed Week that I just bought and the week just appeared in my account when it was transfered to me a couple of weeks ago.  I'm familiar how regular reservations generate a confirmation, unfortunately this one did not.
> 
> ...



TUGBrian,

As it appears you were not the person I was communicating with, so I would like to correct your statements above in red


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## TUGBrian (Sep 27, 2021)

I dont see any corrections there?  at the end of the day You were a relatively new member, your first ad was an HGVC rental, and you could not provide a confirmation that matched the contact details of your membership, specifically the email address, thus your ad was not permitted in the marketplace.

Im not sure how else to explain the policy, the reason we have the policy, provide an easy solution to the problem, or apologize that you were caught in our relatively small net but it appears that none of those were enough for you to consider making the emails match based on your email responses.  It certainly would have taken less time than all the arguing, and posting here.


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## Ty1on (Sep 27, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> TUGBrian,
> 
> As it appears you were not the person I was communicating with, so I would like to correct your statements above in red



Debating the owner of the forum, who has access to the entire chain of communication, isn't likely the route I would have gone.

Understand that you've been on the forums less than a year and *a lot of scammers try to ply their trade in the rental ads.*  That's the reason for the dogmatic adherence to the rules.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Debating the owner of the forum, who has access to the entire chain of communication, isn't likely the route I would have gone.
> 
> Understand that you've been on the forums less than a year and *a lot of scammers try to ply their trade in the rental ads.*  That's the reason for the dogmatic adherence to the rules.



In that year I have almost 500 posts, most of them on the HGVC forum which is what I own and trying to rent.  I'm glad he has access to all of the communication as nothing I have posted is incorrect.  I tried to resolve this through numerous emails over 3 days and kept getting a new bar to get over.  I finally could produce what they originally asked for and that was rejected because I use two different email addresses.  When I joined TUG I used the email that I use for odd things that I don't consider daily viewing worthy ie: Pet store coupons, promo's that I expect to only need once or very infrequently.  It's not like I needed to see any communications from TUG daily, so that is what I used.  When I bought through HGVC I used my mail email address due to the sensitive nature of some of the communications and need to respond to them in a timely manner.  I think someone viewing my ad can clearly check my activity on TUG and decide if I'm a fly by night operation and if they aren't comfortable just move on.   I use the same email on Go-Koala and they approved the same listing using the HGVC confirmation email as proof of a reservation.  I'm just a bit frustrated and puzzled at the same time.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

TUGBrian said:


> I dont see any corrections there?  at the end of the day You were a relatively new member, your first ad was an HGVC rental, and you could not provide a confirmation that matched the contact details of your membership, specifically the email address, thus your ad was not permitted in the marketplace.
> 
> Im not sure how else to explain the policy, the reason we have the policy, provide an easy solution to the problem, or apologize that you were caught in our relatively small net but it appears that none of those were enough for you to consider making the emails match based on your email responses.  It certainly would have taken less time than all the arguing, and posting here.



The corrections are in red embedded in your original response.  Click to expand an you'll see them.

 I guess being here for a year with 500 posts, many helping other members evaluate their options is the greatest ruse ever.


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## Ty1on (Sep 27, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> In that year I have almost 500 posts, most of them on the HGVC forum which is what I own and trying to rent.  I'm glad he has access to all of the communication as nothing I have posted is incorrect.  I tried to resolve this through numerous emails over 3 days and kept getting a new bar to get over.  I finally could produce what they originally asked for and that was rejected because I use two different email addresses.  When I joined TUG I used the email that I use for odd things that I don't consider daily viewing worthy ie: Pet store coupons, promo's that I expect to only need once or very infrequently.  It's not like I needed to see any communications from TUG daily, so that is what I used.  When I bought through HGVC I used my mail email address due to the sensitive nature of some of the communications and need to respond to them in a timely manner.  I think someone viewing my ad can clearly check my activity on TUG and decide if I'm a fly by night operation and if they aren't comfortable just move on.   I use the same email on Go-Koala and they approved the same listing using the HGVC confirmation email as proof of a reservation.  I'm just a bit frustrated and puzzled at the same time.



You can resolve this when you can rent a reservation that is in your name.  That is the requirement.  I'm glad Koala took it, but any renter worth his salt isn't going to pay someone for a reservation under a different owner name.  Nevertheless, I hope it rents for you!

TUG takes a lot of care to ensure that all parties in rental or purchase transactions are legitimate.  I admire TUG for that diligence, and it's your prerogative to resent it.  It's clear you aren't a scammer, but "if they aren't comfortable just move on" is something a scammer would say.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> *You can resolve this when you can rent a reservation that is in your name*.  That is the requirement.  I'm glad Koala took it, but any renter worth his salt isn't going to pay someone for a reservation under a different owner name.  Nevertheless, I hope it rents for you!
> 
> TUG takes a lot of care to ensure that all parties in rental or purchase transactions are legitimate.  I admire TUG for that diligence, and it's your prerogative to resent it.  It's clear you aren't a scammer, but "if they aren't comfortable just move on" is something a scammer would say.



I'm not sure what you're getting at there.  The reservation is in my name.  I only go by one name.  I have an HGVC account in my name, that has a deed in that same name and that is the name that will be on my rental contract.  I happen to have two emails.  I would bet most people on TUG have more than two emails they use. 

I've learned a lot on TUG and hopefully provided others with the same.  I just think you should be able to look at my activity here and come to a different conclusion than has been done here.


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## Ty1on (Sep 27, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> I'm not sure what you're getting at there.  The reservation is in my name.  I only go by one name.  I have an HGVC account in my name, that has a deed in that same name and that is the name that will be on my rental contract.  I happen to have two emails.  I would bet most people on TUG have more than two emails they use.
> 
> I've learned a lot on TUG and hopefully provided others with the same.  I just think you should be able to look at my activity here and come to a different conclusion than has been done here.



Forgive me, emails have to match, too.  These rules weren't created in a vacuum.  Every rule exists because there was a problem that needed to be resolved.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 27, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> The corrections are in red embedded in your original response.  Click to expand an you'll see them.
> 
> I guess being here for a year with 500 posts, many helping other members evaluate their options is the greatest ruse ever.



sorry to clarify, I read your corrections and did not see anything that made the original explanation incorrect.

we requested a copy of the email confirmation from hgvc, you did not provide it and instead chose to send items other than what was requested.  When you finally provided what was requested, it triggered the very reason we request those emails to be forwarded in the first place...to confirm the contact details match.


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## RALnGA (Sep 27, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> When I joined TUG I used the email that I use for odd things that I don't consider daily viewing worthy ie: Pet store coupons, promo's that I expect to only need once or very infrequently. It's not like I needed to see any communications from TUG daily, so that is what I used.



By having nearly 500 post in your first year I would say *THAT'S A LOT OF POSTING IN A YEAR....* when you consider this site as not being "Daily viewing worthy". 
I have never met a Timeshare owner that I didn't ever think could use Tuggs as a great place to learn all about how to use what they'd bought. But today I just may have....

Brian I thank you for you creating this site because without it I would be lost....And may I add also for keeping the scammers out!! 

RAL


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## dioxide45 (Sep 27, 2021)

I guess I could never rent a week on TUG, I know my TUG email address doesn't match any email address I use for the timeshare companies we own with. I guess I can understand the rule, but it would be a bit of a pain for me to work around. Glad I only use our weeks that we own.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 27, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> I guess I could never rent a week on TUG, I know my TUG email address doesn't match any email address I use for the timeshare companies we own with. I guess I can understand the rule, but it would be a bit of a pain for me to work around. Glad I only use our weeks that we own.


I think longer term tuggers, don't have to provide a confirmation for every rental at least long term tuggers with a rental history and no complaints.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 27, 2021)

RALnGA said:


> By having nearly 500 post in your first year I would say *THAT'S A LOT OF POSTING IN A YEAR....* when you consider this site as not being "Daily viewing worthy".
> I have never met a Timeshare owner that I didn't ever think could use Tuggs as a great place to learn all about how to use what they'd bought. But today I just may have....
> 
> Brian I thank you for you creating this site because without it I would be lost....And may I add also for keeping the scammers out!!
> ...



It's not the site that isn't daily viewing worthy.  It's any emails I might get from the site and why I set it up with basically a throw away email addresses.  It's the one I use in retail stores to get 15% off, the one I use on forms at retail places that want to put you on their mailing list.  The only emails I think I have ever gotten from TUG are the weekly newsletters, which I have never opened and my membership renewal that I just got over the weekend.  None of that is real vital in my life.  This is only an EOY deed so even the rental activity will be extremely limited and that's why I use the odd email for TUG and Gokoala and PetSmart for full disclosure

As far as me not seeing value in TUG, I believe you are misrepresenting my participation here.  I've stated previously in this thread that I've learned a lot on TUG and also taken extensive time to help others through posts and even a number of PM's that aren't apparent to users.  I'd bet someone at TUG could look at those and see the time I've spent in that way to, but that's not going to happen.


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## Ty1on (Sep 27, 2021)

I like the digest emails, but I'm pretty sure I saw that you can opt out of them.


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## Sandy VDH (Sep 27, 2021)

It is just a matter of trying to keep fraudulent activity at bay.  You would not believe the lengths people go to in an attempt to get money from people.  Doctoring emails is one of those methods. So having matching emails is a good check to make sure everything is on the up and up.  

I have seen plenty of bad attempts to rip someone off, by claiming they had a rental that they do not.  There are a few here on TUG that have been too trusting, and have paid for a rental that someone did not even have available.  Generally if a deal is too good, or someone had the impossible booking, then be cautious if there is your hard earned money on the line. 

So either following the play rulebook or play elsewhere.  You don't have to like it, but you do have to follow the rules.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 27, 2021)

emails are not displayed anywhere on the site or the ad...nor do we share or sell ANY members contact details or information.  nor does any 3rd party have access to it etc.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Sep 30, 2021)

To follow up on this policy:

Both Koala and Redweek have accepted and posted my listing under the exact same circumstances that I have with TUG. (One email for my membership with them and a different one tied to my HGVC account).

The strangest part of the decision made by TUG is that all of my communication with them was done through my email that is tied to the HGVC account and was displayed on the reservation confirmation I was able to provide and appeared on the screenshot from my phone.

Peace!


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## tschwa2 (Sep 30, 2021)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> To follow up on this policy:
> 
> Both Koala and Redweek have accepted and posted my listing under the exact same circumstances that I have with TUG. (One email for my membership with them and a different one tied to my HGVC account).
> 
> ...


Redweek doesn't care unless you are doing verified and then you pay extra and they will verify it.  If it isn't verified they won't ban a person unless they get complaints after the fact and then encourage the scammed users to only use verified.  

Koala's relatively new and perhaps they haven't had the scammers listing yet so don't have tighter rules.  They keep the money until the transaction has finished so I guess that would protect the would be person looking for a rental.


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## emeryjre (Sep 30, 2021)

The fact that Koala holds the renter's payment until the second day of the rental period would give a scammer pause before doing a listing.  They can be a bit less concerned about the legitimacy of a rental listing because of it.

TUG has been used in the past (way back) by scammers.  Brian has no control over any funds exchanged between renter and rentee, but will certainly take a lot of heat and bad publicity if anything goes wrong.

So he has made a lot of airtight rules that protects himself and potential renters.  So be it.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 30, 2021)

Certainly different businesses can have different policies. You might get one bank to cash a check you have when you don't have fund in the account to cover it where another bank will place a 7 day hold on the funds. Every business does things a different way. No one is asking you to like the policies, but ultimately, you need to conform to the policy or not utilize the service.


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