# Wetsgate-Major Regret



## GriffAJ (Jan 9, 2013)

Hello, I am new to this forum but had posted on a different site to get other's opinions on the foolish mistake we made recently. Long story short-went to Vegas for the holidays, endured the Westgate sales presentation (no idea why even went) and there you go, purchased a unit at the Elara. Now, even though I feel like a fool and have been kicking myself since, we tried to rationalize the situation. I submitted all necessary paperwork two days later to rescind on the purchase. I did a ton more research (after the fact, of course) and have heard that bc it was a resale purchase, we cannot rescind. I have yet to hear back from Westgate themsleves. We did not pay retail for it but I'm sure we could've gotten it cheaper like on ebay. The maintenance is $350 every other year. 
Just like many Westgate owners, we were told shady information, were never told it was now the Elara and not PH Towers but they did tell us that Hilton now owns it. There was a lot of "handling" during the presenation and of course it sounds all fine and dandy until you walk out of there.
We live about 4.5 hours (driving) from Vegas-just moved here from NY. The maintenance fees are going to be paid directly to Hilton but we still have to go through II for getaways. I called HGVC and was tossed back and forth to different people. Someone in corporate told me flat out-when you stay here, you will stay in a Westgate room, not an HGVC room (understandable). He also said that they are building/renovating HGVC rooms at the moment and yes, they will renovate Westgate rooms but NOT until everything with HGVC rooms is completed.
How hard is it to use these "wonderful, cheap, fabulous" (lol) getaways that Westgate told us about?


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 9, 2013)

Lets all hope that you didn't sign something that said 'as is, no returns', or words to than effect. You might get them to rescind the sale. Unlikely, but possible. Keep trying that angle. Again and again.

Now, in the likely event that you are a proud Wastegate owner, make the best of it. Those getaways you heard of are real. Other II members will clue you in as to how they work. Briefly, they are off season, last minute bookings offered to fill rooms that otherwise would go unoccupied. Don't expect Hawaii beachfront or prime season ski resorts. 

Consider yourself only mildly screwed. $350 EOY is chump change as far as MF goes. It could be MUCH worse. If it comes with an included II membership, that might be seen as a true bonus. Meanwhile, stay out of timeshare sales rooms. And hope/pray they allow you to rescind.

Welcome to TUG. Many here paid a lot more than you did.

Jim Ricks


----------



## GriffAJ (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks for the reply! It did come with the II membership I believe for a year (maybe 2 but not sure) and unlimited getaways (but I've heard mixed things about them). 

WE will make the best of it if we can and luckily won't have to deal with WG for maintenance or anything like that.

Do the getaways really start at $49?


----------



## RX8 (Jan 9, 2013)

Are you sure that it was Westgate that sold you the timeshare?  We have had previous threads about a company in Nevada selling "resales" that had no rescission rights.  AFAIK, all developer sales would have a rescission requirement and that would include Westgate. 

Here are the threads

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180378&highlight=Nevada+rescission

And

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170963&highlight=rescind+nevada


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 9, 2013)

GriffAJ said:


> I submitted all necessary paperwork two days later to rescind on the purchase. I did a ton more research (after the fact, of course) and have heard that bc it was a resale purchase, we cannot rescind. I have yet to hear back from Westgate themsleves.



There is some conflicting info. here:  

WHO told you that you didn't buy from Westgate?  

WHO told you that you cannot rescind?

WHO did you call?

These people are not your friends - if you called them for help with rescinding, they are simply trying to salvage the sale.

If you bought from Westgate during the holidays - you would not get an official response yet - they have 30 days.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 9, 2013)

I remember your thread OY.   Did you contact a Nevada Real Estate attorney to get the clarification on previous foreclosure being sold by the developer?

If you have a platinum membership with II they do have platinum getaways once or twice a year that have studios and one bedrooms in the $49-$99 per week range for off season.  It is rare and limited to certain areas.  I think I saw a one bedroom in a Marriott Park City for $69 in April of last year.  The next time I saw the offerings they were even more limited.  Most getaways are in the $199-799 range.  If you can travel off season you can find some good deals.

Even for a studio $350 sounds kind of low for a week.  Do you have a full week or just part of a week?  I know Westgate was selling some of these.


----------



## GriffAJ (Jan 12, 2013)

It is a partial week bc we normally don't vacation for a full week unless it's international.

@DeniseM-We did buy thru Westgate but it was a foreclosure/resale. After getting back to our hotel and reviewing the paperwork, we saw that it says no rescission for this, which obviously they steered clear from during the many hours we were there. We went back the day after to speak with a "manager" but of course there was "nothing they could do." They gave me an address to corporate. I submitted necessary paperwork from info that I found online but did not speak with anyone from Westgate by phone about the rescinding.


----------



## timeos2 (Jan 12, 2013)

GriffAJ said:


> It is a partial week bc we normally don't vacation for a full week unless it's international.
> 
> @DeniseM-We did buy thru Westgate but it was a foreclosure/resale. After getting back to our hotel and reviewing the paperwork, we saw that it says no rescission for this, which obviously they steered clear from during the many hours we were there. We went back the day after to speak with a "manager" but of course there was "nothing they could do." They gave me an address to corporate. I submitted necessary paperwork from info that I found online but did not speak with anyone from Westgate by phone about the rescinding.



No matter where they got it if Wastegate weasels sold it then you can rescind. If it was a third party operating a "used timeshare" resale deal then you may be stuck without that right.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 12, 2013)

GriffAJ said:


> It is a partial week bc we normally don't vacation for a full week unless it's international.



The problem with the partial week is that you can't deposit it with an exchange company. I'm not even sure you can join Interval just to use the Getaways if you don't own a full week.  As to your partial week, your only options are to use the partial week yourself, rent out the partial week, or pay the MF's and let it sit empty.  Obviously you shouldn't do the third.  You need to reserve the best time you can as soon as you can.  

Another thing that Westgate does in general is puts additional restrictions on when resale owners can reserve their deeded time.  In some cases they try to restrict them to only reserving resale owners to 60 days prior to check in where as original buyers can reserve up to a year in advance.  Hopefully you don't have such restrictions buying a resale from Westgate.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 12, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> No matter where they got it if Wastegate weasels sold it then you can rescind. If it was a third party operating a "used timeshare" resale deal then you may be stuck without that right.



There have been other buyers both from Westgate and Timeshare Liquidators in Nevada who have bought foreclosure resales in Nevada.  These are the relavant answers from ask.com. I wouldn't go solely by what is on the internet so I would definitely think it worth it to consult a Nevada Real Estate attorney that has dealt with foreclosure sales or better yet a timeshare specialist attorney but I think they would be harder to find one who does not work for a developer.




> Expert's Answer
> Hello,
> 
> The chapter containing the rescission requirement excludes timeshares re-sold which were acquired at foreclosure. See below:
> ...



and



> My last and final question for you at this time:
> As you quoted, NRS 119A.170 "Applicability of this chapter and chapter 645 of NRS" states "1. The provisions of this chapter, except subsection 4, do not apply to: ... (c) Any transfer of a time share: ... (3) By the resale of a time share that has been acquired by an association by deed in lieu of foreclosure or at a foreclosure sale."
> 
> Does this exclude from the NRS regulations a corporation who sells a timeshare that was previously purchased by them following a foreclosure? Or does it only exclude purchase of a foreclosed timeshare directly from an association (though perhaps through the help of a broker), which is defined in NRS 119A.032 as "association of owners established pursuant to NRS 119A.520" and as such would not include a resale corporation?
> ...





It definitely sucks and if it is true that these sellers can high pressure sell timeshares without a right to rescind than this should stand as another reason that Westgate should be avoided at all costs.


----------



## memereDoris (Jan 13, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> Another thing that Westgate does in general is puts additional restrictions on when resale owners can reserve their deeded time.  In some cases they try to restrict them to only reserving resale owners to 60 days prior to check in where as original buyers can reserve up to a year in advance.  Hopefully you don't have such restrictions buying a resale from Westgate.



I own a resale Westgate and one I purchased directly from Westgate (our first purchase years ago).  They are in different locations.  Miami (resale) & Orlando (retail).

We have never had restrictions on reservations with either one.  I get better service when I call to book my resale unit.  This has more to do with the staff and management at the one location.  I bank or book my week with a great deal of flexibility, whether resale or not.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 13, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> No matter where they got it if Wastegate weasels sold it then you can rescind. If it was a third party operating a "used timeshare" resale deal then you may be stuck without that right.



Would be great if OP can get it rescinded, but if the unit purchased was a resale, even if from the developer, do rescission rights still remain?


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jan 13, 2013)

*Not Resale When It Comes From A Timeshare Developer.*




Beefnot said:


> Would be great if OP can get it rescinded, but if the unit purchased was a resale, even if from the developer, do rescission rights still remain?


If a timeshare developer sells it, it's not resale -- _mox nix_ whether the developer built it, bought it, foreclosed it, got it on deedback, or anything else. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## timeos2 (Jan 13, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> There have been other buyers both from Westgate and Timeshare Liquidators in Nevada who have bought foreclosure resales in Nevada.  These are the relavant answers from ask.com. I wouldn't go solely by what is on the internet so I would definitely think it worth it to consult a Nevada Real Estate attorney that has dealt with foreclosure sales or better yet a timeshare specialist attorney but I think they would be harder to find one who does not work for a developer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A sale by the registered Westgate sales organization would be subject to the rescission rules no matter if it was a foreclosure or not. A sale by the Westgate HOA Association - the group that operates the resorts for the owners - would NOT unless they too are a registered sales agent.  So any HOA that sells foreclosures would normally not be under the rescind rules. I suppose a buyer could still call that being sold "by Westgate" but it should not include the usual process or pressure as these are not trained sales weasels. If a third party sells HOA Association foreclosures they must be registered as a sales agent and, usually, that would include having to honor the minimum rescind rules. 

It does vary by State so you have to find out what the regs are in the State involved. In Florida for example an unregistered seller - even an HOA - is limited to 50 sales per calendar year unless they are registered. Other States have other rules. Bottom line is if you aren't buying from the Developer then you should NOT assume any right to rescind.  That doesn't mean you may not have one but you are taking a big risk unless you know for sure the rules in that State.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 13, 2013)

memereDoris said:


> I own a resale Westgate and one I purchased directly from Westgate (our first purchase years ago).  They are in different locations.  Miami (resale) & Orlando (retail).
> 
> We have never had restrictions on reservations with either one.  I get better service when I call to book my resale unit.  This has more to do with the staff and management at the one location.  I bank or book my week with a great deal of flexibility, whether resale or not.



It is something Westgate put in the CC&R's for ParkCity and Myrtle Beach and I'm not sure about Vegas.  I am also not sure it is legally enforcible but when has that stopped Westgate from trying anything.  It is like when they put ROFR clauses into later resorts but then tried to claim that they had ROFR over all the resorts.


----------



## Kola (Jan 27, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> .....  It is like when they put ROFR clauses into later resorts but then tried to claim that they had ROFR over all the resorts.



The ROFR depends on when the week was sold. The older Westgate resorts never had the ROFR clause in their documents.  That said, I know from experience that some people on Westgate staff  like to make claims without verifying facts. Is this kind of bad habit limited to one developer only ? I don't think so.


----------



## pacodemountainside (Jan 28, 2013)

I vaguely recall after Sea-gull abandoned  PH to Hilton around Thanksgiving 2011 there was write up   on this subject. His "Tower of Terror"  collapsed when  pre-construction buyers who saw their prices double on  flash  paper, found  PH really wasn't on strip, the PH hotel was  and actually was less than 1/2 sold  resulting in many renters and hard usage  and  their profits vaporized.

Hilton made very clear they were not going to do Westgate owners any favors.

As I recall Westgate  was stuck with all existing  contracts and mortgages.  Since they were no longer Developer they set  up a resale company to deal with foreclosures and circumvent recession laws.

Where did this presentation/sale take place?

I also know  an acquittance who bought a studio there and  MF were around $700 a year. II was included for just first year. Since your II paper work went through I guess they don't care if one just owns a  partial week.

Her  contract clearly stated at bottom  restrictions applied to resale   per governing documents. They gave her a   4 inch by 6 inch  about 1  inch thick tan  document called something like  CC&Rs  or Developer Underwriting Declaration. It clearly stated ROFR policy, that resales could only be booked 60 days out and   other restrictions.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> I vaguely recall after Sea-gull abandoned  PH to Hilton around Thanksgiving 2011 there was write up   on this subject. His "Tower of Terror"  collapsed when  pre-construction buyers who saw their prices double on  flash  paper, found  PH really wasn't on strip, the PH hotel was  and actually was less than 1/2 sold  resulting in many renters and hard usage  and  their profits vaporized.
> 
> Hilton made very clear they were not going to do Westgate owners any favors.
> 
> ...



Posts 41-46 in this thread discussed this last year. I think this is where I got my thinking about it not being rescindable.


----------

