# Truth about McDonalds?



## spirits (May 8, 2014)

http://naturalhealthwarriors.com/ch...cdonalds-burgers-unfit-for-human-consumption/


I do not want to argue whether the food at McDonalds is good or bad.....I actually like their Big Macs and Egg Mcmuffins a couple of times a year....but this article is too important to ignore.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 9, 2014)

spirits said:


> I do not want to argue whether the food at McDonalds is good or bad....


If that was your intent, then why did you make the link?  This is in the same vein as the person who says. "I don't mean to offend, but you need to lose some weight." 

Saying your intent is not to start a debate, then posting something that is calculated to provoke debate is, shall we say,  perhaps a bit disingenuous?


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## gnorth16 (May 9, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If that was your intent, then why did you make the link?  This is in the same vein as the person who says. "I don't mean to offend, but you need to lose some weight."
> 
> Saying your intent is not to start a debate, then posting something that is calculated to provoke debate is, shall we say,  perhaps a bit disingenuous?



Totally off base.

It's not to start a debate *about if the food is good or bad*, just to inform others what is involved in the food process for McDonald's.  I rarely eat there and from now on, it will not include any their "beef products".

Thanks for the link.


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## SmithOp (May 9, 2014)

There are threads on here discussing "pink slime" back in 2012, on the internet everything old is new again.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 9, 2014)

gnorth16 said:


> Totally off base.
> 
> It's not to start a debate *about if the food is good or bad*, just to inform others what is involved in the food process for McDonald's.  I rarely eat there and from now on, it will not include any their "beef products".
> 
> Thanks for the link.



The article is simply a well-written piece of propaganda. It takes as it's premise a number of unproven assertions, that it treats as fact, and then goes on form there.

You can get the same depth of insight from listening to Glenn Beck talk radio - the propaganda tactics are the same.

Just because it starts with a different set of biases doesn't make it any more accurate.  It's just another piece of crap in world in which we are being inundated by crap and there are too many people who are too lazy or indifferent to discern or care that they are being fed crap. Or they get upset when they feel they are being fed crap from someone they don't like, but they don't bother to realize they are being fed crap by the people they do like. Somehow we think that because the crap starts with a flavor we like it's good crap.

Just because it has been scented with something we like doesn't make it any less crap.  Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I find I myself increasingly less tolerant of being fed crap, whether it comes from people I agree with or not.  I just think the world needs less crap, no matter where it comes from.


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## ricoba (May 9, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The article is simply a well-written piece of propaganda. It takes as it's premise a number of unproven assertions, that it treats as fact, and then goes on form there.
> 
> You can get the same depth of insight from listening to Glenn Beck talk radio - the propaganda tactics are the same.
> 
> ...



Now that you have effectively slain the absurdity of lazy logic, you may go back under the bridge.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 9, 2014)

ricoba said:


> Now that you have effectively slain the absurdity of lazy logic, you may go back under the bridge.



Nahhhh - my cave is a lot more protected.  I'll go in there and hide for now.


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## siesta (May 9, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I find I myself increasingly less tolerant of being fed crap.


 if you are tired of being fed crap, stop eating at mcdonalds.


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## Passepartout (May 9, 2014)

I haven't eaten at McD's for decades, but doubt that their crap is much different than the King's crap or the Bell's or anybody else's crap. All of it is industrial edibles, engineered for shelf life, transportability, and low production cost.

Eat it at your own risk.

Jim


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## laurac260 (May 9, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> You can get the same depth of insight from listening to Glenn Beck talk radio - the propaganda tactics are the same.
> 
> .



I don't know what I find more humorous, notion that someone could link McDonald's food with Glenn Beck, or the notion that someone thinks that he is the only one dishes out propaganda.  I think I'll go with the latter.

Funny how open-minded people are only open minded when you tell them what they want to hear.  

But that's okay, go ahead and keep eating your McDonald's.

After all, at this point "what difference does it make?"


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## rapmarks (May 9, 2014)

Just because it has been scented with something we like doesn't make it any less crap. Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I find I myself increasingly less tolerant of being fed crap, whether it comes from people I agree with or not. I just think the world needs less crap, no matter where it comes from. 


 It is funny, but I just got off Facebook where a friend just posted the worst  crap, and it has got me really ticked off.  I am tired of people posting anything they want, even when they know it is not true, and having everyone jump on their bandwagon.
 I have not read the Mcdonald's link, and I am off topic. but this trend is really bothering me.


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## Mosca (May 9, 2014)

The worst are all the alternative medicines. You know what alternative medicine that works is called? Medicine. If it works, it stops being some secret that "big pharma" is hiding, and finds it's way onto the shelves at your local store.


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## simpsontruckdriver (May 9, 2014)

One alternative that is being promoted is Homeopathic Medicine. Looking at research online, Homeopathic medicine could be dangerous, because there is no oversight. The FDA considers them under the same umbrella as supplements, meaning they do not monitor them.

Modern medicine (aka Big Pharma) is the best medicine. It is regulated by the FDA, each side effect are listed, etc. Most medical issues are treatable with medications. Are some over-medicated? Depends on your definition, because sometimes having A LOT of medications makes the person's life normal. For instance, my father-in-law has a type of endocrine cancer. If he did not have Medicare Part-D, he would be paying $5000 PER MONTH on chemotherapy meds (he buys it from a specialty pharmacy). It doesn't cure his cancer, it only prevents it from getting worse. In July 2012, the doctors said he would not leave the hospital alive. He left the hospital alive, and is still here today.

So, there are times when "Big Pharma" does what they are paid to do: save lives.

TS


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## presley (May 9, 2014)

Anything that comes from a cow is considered beef, including pink slime.  When pink slime was big news a couple years ago, it came out that most restaurant chains and most grocery chains put pink slime into their hamburger meat.  There were only about 2 chains near me that didn't use pink slime and I can't remember which they were.  I'm thinking it was Target and Costco, but you'd need to ask them to be sure.  

There's a lot of reasons to not eat at McDonald's.  If the main reason to avoid is to avoid pink slime, you'll also want to avoid most table service chains and most grocery store hamburger meat.


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## am1 (May 9, 2014)

I have never had "beef" at Mcdonalds.


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## MichaelColey (May 9, 2014)

A mix of truth and lies, according to Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/msm.asp


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## pgnewarkboy (May 9, 2014)

Processed foods are high in sugar,fat,sodium and chemical additives.  McDonalds is a big fat target but going after them doesn't address the real problems with the processed food industry.


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## easyrider (May 9, 2014)

In Japan they figured out how to make hamburger.  Talk about crap !!!

http://www.cnet.com/news/japanese-scientist-creates-poop-burger-surely-not/

BTW, every so often, a visit to Macs Steak House is good for you. They really do have fantastic coffee.

Bill


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 9, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> I don't know what I find more humorous, notion that someone could link McDonald's food with Glenn Beck, or the notion that someone thinks that he is the only one dishes out propaganda.  I think I'll go with the latter.
> 
> Funny how open-minded people are only open minded when you tell them what they want to hear.
> 
> ...



I didn't say that I eat at McDonalds.  I didn't say that I believe in Glenn Beck. 

The only linkage I made was to express a degree of frustration that across the board there is an increasing drumbeat of dissonance to my ear springing from increasing number of people posting polarizing propaganda , and other people sucking it up because it confirms what they want to hear and want to believe (and in making that comment I'm not very much thinking of this thread but rate the overall tenor of discourse in our society).

To mix my metaphors, though I know I'm tilting at windmills I'm frustrated at the rising tides of confirmational bias dominating debates and discussions in our society.  So often after viewing one of the news channel (pick any of any stripe) I feel like shouting "I'm mad as hell and I can't take anymore." I was in one of those moods last night.


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## ScoopKona (May 9, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> To mix my metaphors, though I know I'm tilting at windmills I'm frustrated at the rising tides of confirmational bias dominating debates and discussions in our society.  So often after viewing one of the news channel (pick any of any stripe) I feel like shouting "I'm mad as hell and I can't take anymore." I was in one of those moods last night.



I love it when some nitwit who is following their particular herd denounces people in a different herd as "sheeple." 

Or all the people who claim to be critical thinkers, who quote and link propaganda because it fits their particular narrative.

I think it is no surprise that our country took a sharp turn downhill following the end of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987.


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## bogey21 (May 9, 2014)

simpsontruckdriver said:


> So, there *are times* when "Big Pharma" does what they are paid to do: save lives.



And there are some people who *are sometimes* way over medicated.  My only point is that we need to be careful particularly when seeing multiple Doctors.

George


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## ScoopKona (May 9, 2014)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Processed foods are high in sugar,fat,sodium and chemical additives.  McDonalds is a big fat target but going after them doesn't address the real problems with the processed food industry.



You know what DOES address the real problems with the processed food industry? Not buying it. That addresses the problem quick smart.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the people who eat this garbage and suffer because of it because they bring it on themselves -- one Twinkie at a time. Remember the Twinkie thread? Remember how people were falling over themselves being cheerleaders for a company that puts out "food" that will make the consumer sick? 

You don't see people breaking out the pom-pom icon for tobacco companies.  But the industrial food companies are every bit as bad.

And why? Because people will not make their own food from ingredients which they carefully source themselves. That's a huge effort. And making such a huge effort would take away from the time people spend on "So You Think You Can Marry A Millionaire Duck-hunting Ice-Road Crabbing Survivor" on TV.

They made their choice -- convenience is more important than life itself. And now they can live with it (for a far shorter time, of course).


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## laurac260 (May 9, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> You know what DOES address the real problems with the processed food industry? Not buying it. That addresses the problem quick smart.
> 
> I have absolutely no sympathy for the people who eat this garbage and suffer because of it because they bring it on themselves -- one Twinkie at a time. Remember the Twinkie thread? Remember how people were falling over themselves being cheerleaders for a company that puts out "food" that will make the consumer sick?
> 
> ...



Here's the best quote I have read all week:  "Medicine isn't healthcare.  Food is healthcare.  Medicine is sick care."    and when the quote said food, it meant FOOD, not processed food type stuffs.


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## rapmarks (May 9, 2014)

The only linkage I made was to express a degree of frustration that across the board there is an increasing drumbeat of dissonance to my ear springing from increasing number of people posting polarizing propaganda , and other people sucking it up because it confirms what they want to hear and want to believe (and in making that comment I'm not very much thinking of this thread but rate the overall tenor of discourse in our society).

 I so agree.


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## DavidnRobin (May 9, 2014)

Fact... almost everything (if not everything) on McD's menu or any 'fast food' place for that matter - including their 'salads' - is unhealthy - whether you want to believe it or not, or blow it off as some sort of propaganda, or claim that people do not need to eat it and therefore it is their own fault - it still remains a fact.

These foods, as well as many foods in the 'American' diet (as well as amount consumed) is the reason of the incredible rise in obesity and Type 2 diabetes in the US.  This is also a fact.

One can argue that if people did not eat these foods, then this would not be an issue (also a fact).  However, take a look at the targeted demographic of advertising these foods - as well as the low-cost and accessibility - especially in poor neighborhoods - as well as the physiology of the human brain to become  easily 'addicted' to these types of foods - and it is not so black and white.  Whether it is claimed to be or not (another fact...)

We do occasionally indulge at 'In and Out' and 5-Guys (rarely) - since we have cut down on eating bad fats, sugars (including non-sugar sweeteners), MSG, and processed flours - we have slowly lost weight, and my sugar levels (insulin spikes) are more under control - resulting in less cravings for these types of foods. {fact}


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## geekette (May 9, 2014)

I'm a little concerned about your facts, davnrobin.

Obesity is not caused by these foods, it is caused by the consuming person not expending at least as many calories as they consume.  Please don't blame the food/pseudo-food.

Most health issues are not caused by A Food, they result from a number of different factors, which may include a lack of healthy food.  This is not the same as saying that unhealthy food causes illness, else we would have outlawed a lot of non-fast-food yum yums eons ago.  Why only dump on fast food joints?   They do not own the market on unhealthy food.


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## siesta (May 9, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> And making such a huge effort would take away from the time people spend on "So You Think You Can Marry A Millionaire Duck-hunting Ice-Road Crabbing Survivor" on TV.


I checked my local listings but couldn't find this show.  Is this on fox?


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## laurac260 (May 9, 2014)

geekette said:


> Obesity is not caused by these foods, it is caused by the consuming person not expending at least as many calories as they consume.  Please don't blame the food/pseudo-food.





The problem IS our manufactured food.  The sooner we realize this, the better.  



Ask yourself this..If the poor have little access to healthy food as it is claimed, why is it that the obese are predominately made up of the lower class (economic) families?  If they don't have access to healthy food, they should be rail thin, like in 3rd world countries.  How can you be obese if you are food poor?  They are food poor, on poor food.  And the poor food is making them obese.


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## ScoopKona (May 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> The problem IS our manufactured food.  The sooner we realize this, the better.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself this..If the poor have little access to healthy food as it is claimed, why is it that the obese are predominately made up of the lower class (economic) families?  If they don't have access to healthy food, they should be rail thin, like in 3rd world countries.  How can you be obese if you are food poor?  They are food poor, on poor food.  And the poor food is making them obese.



We're going to see a lot of backlash about unhealthy food thanks to the new movie coming out. Big Food Conglomerates have already created several deceptive websites to obfuscate the information coming from this movie.


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## laurac260 (May 10, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> We're going to see a lot of backlash about unhealthy food thanks to the new movie coming out. Big Food Conglomerates have already created several deceptive websites to obfuscate the information coming from this movie.



What am I missing?  What new movie?


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## theo (May 10, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> ....would take away from the time people spend on "So You Think You Can Marry A Millionaire Duck-hunting Ice-Road Crabbing Survivor" on TV.



I decline to participate in this thread, but I'd nonetheless like to express my appreciation for the humorous construction of this mythical TV program. 

"Dancing with the Idol Bachelorettes in Honey Boo Boo's Shark Tank" is reportedly coming soon too, by the way. Look for it in your local TV listings.


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## ace2000 (May 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> What am I missing?  What new movie?



Most likely referring to the recently released movie _Fed Up_...

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-fedup-20140510-story.html


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## laurac260 (May 10, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Most likely referring to the recently released movie _Fed Up_...
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-fedup-20140510-story.html



Thank you. I will absolutely be watching this movie.  My seventh grade daughter is watching supersize me in her health class currently.  Have the movie at our house for years but could not get her to watch it. She finally gets why we eat the way we do in our house.


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## Tia (May 10, 2014)

Yep agree on both shows hahaha :hysterical: though sort of think Duck Dynasty is funny but avoid all the other junk.

I'm interested in the movie Fed Up , appreciate the mention. 

I recall hearing industry quickly had legislation passed about not being held accountable for Mad Cow after the incident w/one out of Canada making it down here and there being no cheapo way to check and track.

When the pink slime was in the news I started asking my local Kroger grocery store and they showed me which product to not buy and told me in a short period of time they'd be getting rid of the product d/t the attention it got. 




theo said:


> I decline to participate in this thread, but I'd nonetheless like to express my appreciation for the humorous construction of this mythical TV program.
> 
> "Dancing with the Idol Bachelorettes in Honey Boo Boo's Shark Tank" is reportedly coming soon too, by the way. Look for it in your local TV listings.


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## bluehende (May 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> The problem IS our manufactured food.  The sooner we realize this, the better.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself this..If the poor have little access to healthy food as it is claimed, why is it that the obese are predominately made up of the lower class (economic) families?  If they don't have access to healthy food, they should be rail thin, like in 3rd world countries.  How can you be obese if you are food poor?  They are food poor, on poor food.  And the poor food is making them obese.


  You can be fat and malnourished.  Calories are not the only thing we receive from our food.  There was a great documentary about this( I wish I remembered the name of it).  Many rural and inner city areas are food deserts.  That means the only things available are calorie dense and nutrition lacking foods.  Poor children were obese yet could not concentrate in school due to the lack of nutrition.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 10, 2014)

You can also be thin and muscular and be in horrible health. You can't just look at someone build and assume you know how healthy they are or not. A lot(90+%)of what defines someone's health and longtivity is genetic and has nothing to do with what they eat.


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## laurac260 (May 10, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> You can also be thin and muscular and be in horrible health. You can't just look at someone build and assume you know how healthy they are or not. A lot(90+%)of what defines someone's health and longtivity is genetic and has nothing to do with what they eat.



Please use this logic to explain to us why the rise in obesity.


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## ScoopKona (May 11, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> You can also be thin and muscular and be in horrible health. You can't just look at someone build and assume you know how healthy they are or not. *A lot(90+%)of what defines someone's health and longtivity is genetic and has nothing to do with what they eat.*



Dieticians, nutritionists, doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and lobbying groups have been studying the effects of various things on identical twins for generations.

Based on the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, would you care to offer any citations of your "90% is genetic and has nothing to do with what people eat" statement? Because you can google the effects of smoking, drug use and diet on identical twins and get enough information to keep you busy for the rest of your life.

Where did you get this notion, anyway?


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## Timeshare Von (May 11, 2014)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If that was your intent, then why did you make the link?  This is in the same vein as the person who says. "I don't mean to offend, but you need to lose some weight."
> 
> Saying your intent is not to start a debate, then posting something that is calculated to provoke debate is, shall we say,  perhaps a bit disingenuous?



The OP said they didn't want to argue.

Personally, I do not believe arguing and debating are the same thing.  I suppose we could have a debate about that . . . but really . . . I don't want to argue.


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## ondeadlin (May 11, 2014)

geekette said:


> I'm a little concerned about your facts, davnrobin.
> 
> Obesity is not caused by these foods, it is caused by the consuming person not expending at least as many calories as they consume.  Please don't blame the food/pseudo-food.



Amen.  

It's not hard:  Eat less, exercise more.


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## zinger1457 (May 11, 2014)

ondeadlin said:


> Amen.
> 
> It's not hard:  Eat less, exercise more.



Most studies on dieting has shown that eating less rarely works in the long term, most people just don't stick with it.  Need to change what you eat, less junk and more nutritious foods (whole grains, veggies, fruits, etc.).


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## SMHarman (May 11, 2014)

All things with fibre that take longer to digest and keep you feeling full longer. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## spirits (May 11, 2014)

*Great responses*

I am the original poster.  Those that know me also know that my children have been vegan for 2 years.  I come from a Ukrainian background and our three food groups are sour cream, cream and cabbage...like for cabbage rolls (;

I have found it a challenge to not only go meatless but also forgo dairy when planning family meals.
One of the first things they did for my husband and me was to sit us down to watch  Forks Over Knives which really stresses a plant based diet.  Over the last two years we have slowly weaned ourselves off of a lot of unhealthy eating choices but our weakness was the occasional Egg McMuffin (first day of any road trip) or a Big Mac when I am out with school kids on a field trip.

I saw this article and thought...well here goes my last excuse to partake in a secret indulgence.
However, I just wanted to open up a discussion regarding unhealthy food choices without the tendency to "teach" or as my husband states...."nag"


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## geekette (May 12, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> The problem IS our manufactured food.  The sooner we realize this, the better.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself this..If the poor have little access to healthy food as it is claimed, why is it that the obese are predominately made up of the lower class (economic) families?  If they don't have access to healthy food, they should be rail thin, like in 3rd world countries.  How can you be obese if you are food poor?  They are food poor, on poor food.  And the poor food is making them obese.



I don't buy the notion that only unhealthy food is available to the poor.  Do the grocery stores near them never carry fruits and vegetables?  

I do think that regardless of economics in one's family, it is seriously tempting to buy the convenience foods.  None of my college roommates could cook, didn't know that brownies and mac n cheese could be made 'from scratch.'  I think that 'cooking at home' is far less prevalent than it used to be, and when it does happen, often it's from a box of chemicals (hamburger helper, for example).

Everyone decides for themselves how to deploy their food budget but availability is not an issue in this country unless you live very far from civilization and refuse to grow your own food.  

Note that I am hardly the model of 'eating clean' as I do enjoy an occasional egg mc muffin and since Mc Ds is very near work, I have on occasion eaten their salads.  I'd be interested in how lettuce becomes unhealthy when dispensed from a fast food joint?  does it lose it's classification as a vegetable?  

Moderation is the key, as there is no way that I will Never Again eat ice cream or fast food fare.


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## Phydeaux (May 12, 2014)

I had to chuckle when an Indian colleague once said " I wanted to move to the USA so I could see with my own eyes how the poor are overweight".


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## laurac260 (May 12, 2014)

geekette said:


> I don't buy the notion that only unhealthy food is available to the poor.  Do the grocery stores near them never carry fruits and vegetables?
> 
> I do think that regardless of economics in one's family, it is seriously tempting to buy the convenience foods.  None of my college roommates could cook, didn't know that brownies and mac n cheese could be made 'from scratch.'  I think that 'cooking at home' is far less prevalent than it used to be, and when it does happen, often it's from a box of chemicals (hamburger helper, for example).
> 
> ...



hmmm…where do I start?   #1, no one said "only unhealthy food is available to the poor."  

But here, let me give you a project.  Go into your local grocer, with 100$ to spend.  Have as your goal to only spend it on healthy food (that being, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, dairy, eggs, nothing in a box.).  How far did that 100$ get you?   Now, take the same 100$ and 2-4 hungry kids.  Now, your goal is to get as much "food" as you can for that 100$, because that is your food budget for the week.  See the difference?  Can you feed your family of 4 on that grocery cart of 100$ worth of healthy food?  The answer is, no you cannot.  How much more "food" do you have in your cart when you went for volume, rather than health?  THAT is what I am talking about when I say "food poor on poor food".  I live in a nice neighborhood.  A nice neighborhood that is surrounded on all sides by working class to working class poor.  I see what they can afford.  It's not good stuff.

So, it's not as simple as saying "everyone decides for themselves how to deploy their food budget."   Some folks decide based on filling hungry tummies in the best way they possibly can.  Stuff in a box is dirt cheap compared to fresh options, and it can live on your shelf 12-24 times as long.

As far as salads becoming less nutritious when served from a  fast food joint… not sure who said that, you'd have to look thru the posts and address THAT poster.  Iceberg is low on the nutrition scale, so if that the only lettuce the salad has on it, then there's that.   But yes, a salad in a fast food menu is USUALLY better for you than the burger and fries, though not always.  

Here's the way I look at it.  If you take two people one that for 30 years eats nothing but healthy foods, organic, whole foods, no processed stuff, etc, and another person who eats whatever they want, even in moderation, you study those two people for 30 years….

Then at the end of 30 years, let's say that all the folks who say it doesn't matter what you eat, a calorie is a calorie, let's say they are RIGHT.  What is the outcome of the two folks?  Well, the "healthy eater" has a few less bucks in his 401k than the other guy, but otherwise all is equal, they have the same bill of health.

But…let's say the "calorie is a calorie" folks are wrong. Let's say the stay away from processed foods, chemicals, additives etc because it's horrible for your health folks are RIGHT.  Then what's the outcome?  The healthy eater still has a few less bucks in his 401k (it's not cheap to eat whole foods), BUT, his health is better.  He doesn't have lots of chronic issues, inflammation, etc.   The "calorie is a calorie guy" feels like crap.  All the time.

Which person do YOU want to be?  I already have made up MY mind.


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## SMHarman (May 12, 2014)

geekette said:


> I don't buy the notion that only unhealthy food is available to the poor.  Do the grocery stores near them never carry fruits and vegetables?


But yet they exist.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/04/food-deserts-map_n_804110.html
So much so there is even a movie about them
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1954451/
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/podcast/transcript062512.html

Marion is a great person to read about such food matters.
http://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/food-deserts/

http://www.foodrepublic.com/2012/04/19/nischan-nestle-weigh-food-deserts

And of course the obligitary Campaign
http://www.fooddesert.net/?p=12



geekette said:


> I do think that regardless of economics in one's family, it is seriously tempting to buy the convenience foods.  None of my college roommates could cook, didn't know that brownies and mac n cheese could be made 'from scratch.'  I think that 'cooking at home' is far less prevalent than it used to be, and when it does happen, often it's from a box of chemicals (hamburger helper, for example).
> 
> Everyone decides for themselves how to deploy their food budget but availability is not an issue in this country unless you live very far from civilization and refuse to grow your own food.
> 
> ...


All this is good but our Farm Bill is corrupt and supports the big agribusinesses to grow Corn and Wheat not the 'specialty crops' of fruits and vegetables.

http://producenews.com/news-dep-men...ables-are-still-classified-as-specialty-crops

http://www.foodpolitics.com/2014/01/yes-the-farm-bill-is-politically-corrupt-veto-it/



geekette said:


> I'd be interested in how lettuce becomes unhealthy when dispensed from a fast food joint?  does it lose it's classification as a vegetable?


It's not about the lettuce (a great name for a diet movie)

A big Mac has 560 calories. 
An Asian salad with chicken, with Cesar dressing has 560 calories. Many other salad combos have less, but they are still much higher than you would like to think a salad should have.   Fried proteins, creamy / oily dressings.
www.mcdonalds.com


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## laurac260 (May 12, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> But yet they exist.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/04/food-deserts-map_n_804110.html
> So much so there is even a movie about them
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1954451/
> ...


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## SMHarman (May 12, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> hmmm…where do I start?   #1, no one said "only unhealthy food is available to the poor."
> 
> But here, let me give you a project.  Go into your local grocer, with 100$ to spend.  Have as your goal to only spend it on healthy food (that being, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, dairy, eggs, nothing in a box.).  How far did that 100$ get you?   Now, take the same 100$ and 2-4 hungry kids.  Now, your goal is to get as much "food" as you can for that 100$, because that is your food budget for the week.  See the difference?  Can you feed your family of 4 on that grocery cart of 100$ worth of healthy food?  The answer is, no you cannot.  How much more "food" do you have in your cart when you went for volume, rather than health?  THAT is what I am talking about when I say "food poor on poor food".


Another of my favourite lines is that you don't get manufacturer or store coupons for fruits and vegetables.


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## gnorth16 (May 12, 2014)

Another issue is the locations of the low cost supermarkets within cities.  If you live in Downtown Winnipeg and don't have a car, it is very difficult to get groceries from a major supermarket chain with comparatively low prices. Then people are forced to buy groceries from the "mini-marts" at outrageous prices.  I live in the suburbs with four major supermarkets within a 5 minute drive.  Big difference.


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## ScoopKona (May 12, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> Another of my favourite lines is that you don't get manufacturer or store coupons for fruits and vegetables.




It is my experience that the people who push hardest against healthy foods are the people who are addicted to junk food. (And make no mistake, addiction is the proper word.) 

They'll use the libertarian angle: "Don't tell me what I can and can't eat."

They'll use the "pity the poor family" angle: "Don't tell a starving family that they cannot buy ramen noodles anymore."

They'll use the "all science is junk science" angle: "90% of health is genetic. Food doesn't matter."


But in reality, they're white-knuckle petrified that someone might take away their precious dollar menu and high-fructose corn syrup, even though that would be the best thing that could possibly happen to them.

If I didn't have to pay for their stupid food choices via my insurance premiums and property taxes, I would be just fine with letting them kill themselves slowly with junk food. But that isn't the case. I have to pay for their addiction. So I am 100% against subsidizing it -- sugar subsidies, corn subsidies and business subsidies for the corporations who shovel this garbage at an addicted population.


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## laurac260 (May 12, 2014)

We had some friends come over for dinner the other day.  We were supposed to go out together, but for a few reasons (my husband's outpatient surgery, our new paleo "diet"--after going 14 days with NO SUGAR, no bread, no pasta, no potatoes, etc etc.  ), we chose to eat in.  At my house.  After some good natured ribbing about whether I would be serving pine cones, I texted the menu for the night.

Grass fed tenderloin steaks with Chimchurri sauce
brussels sprouts sauteed in garlic and sea salt
mashed sweet potatoes (mash them with cooked granny smith apples--yum!)  
Salad with balsamic vinaigrette dressing
Chocolate Cake 

All made from scratch, all organic, no sugar, no chemical sweeteners, no grains of any kind.  They raved about the meal.  

Healthy food can taste good.  

In case you are wondering about a chocolate cake with no sugar (save for the sugar in dates)…here's the recipe 

Chocolate Paleo Snack Cake Recipe
Ingredients
10 medjool dates, pitted (actually I thought the pit in dates had more moisture retention--just pit them first of course)
1 cup of unsweetened applesauce (or one ripe banana)
3 eggs
1/2 cup coconut oil
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
1/2 cup coconut flour
1/2 cup unsweetened cocoa powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon fine celtic sea salt
1/2 cup strong brewed coffee

Instructions
Place the medjool dates in a food processor and pulse until completely pureed.
Add applesauce (or banana) and continue to pulse until pureed and combined with the dates.
Add the fruit purée to the bowl of a stand mixer, add the eggs, vanilla, coconut oil and coffee and mix on low-medium speed until well combined.
Combine the dry ingredients in a separate bowl.
Slowly add the dry ingredients into the wet ingredients and mix on low-speed, scraping down the sides, until you have a smooth batter.
Grease a 8×8 glass pan with coconut oil, pour in the batter and smooth it with the back of a spatula.
Bake at 350 degrees for 30-35 minutes or until a toothpick stuck in the middle comes out clean.
Alternative method for baking: Use a 9-inch round cake pan. Grease the pan and cut out parchment paper to fit the bottom. Cook per instructions above. Allow the cake to cool for about 10 minutes and turn it out onto a wire rack or cake plate to cool. Top with frosting, if desired, and cut into wedges. 



Avocado Chocolate Frosting Ingredients  (yes Avocado--you'll never know it's there)  
1 perfectly ripe avocado
1/2 cup good unsweetened cocoa powder (I used Ghirardelli)
1/2 cup maple syrup (we use Yakon syrup instead)
1/4 cup dark chocolate mini chips (optional--I have not used these)
Instructions
Place all three ingredients in a food processor and mix together, stopping to scrape down the sides once or twice. Stir in the chocolate chips (if using). The frosting is ready to spread immediately but you can refrigerate if you think it needs to firm up. Add a little water if it is too thick. (We didn’t need to add water)
Makes enough frosting for one single layer cake.


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## laurac260 (May 12, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> It is my experience that the people who push hardest against healthy foods are the people who are addicted to junk food. (And make no mistake, addiction is the proper word.)



You're right, it is an addiction.  Food industries spend lots and lots of money to get that food to taste like something you can live without.  

14 days will cure that "addiction" though.


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## ScoopKona (May 12, 2014)

This is a few months old, but still topical:

http://higherperspective.com/2014/0...cdonalds-burgers-unfit-human-consumption.html


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2014)

geekette said:


> I'm a little concerned about your facts, davnrobin.
> 
> Obesity is not caused by these foods, it is caused by the consuming person not expending at least as many calories as they consume.  Please don't blame the food/pseudo-food.
> 
> Most health issues are not caused by A Food, they result from a number of different factors, which may include a lack of healthy food.  This is not the same as saying that unhealthy food causes illness, else we would have outlawed a lot of non-fast-food yum yums eons ago.  Why only dump on fast food joints?   They do not own the market on unhealthy food.



Haven't checked on this thread for a while.
My 'facts' are indeed facts - you are missing the point - of course obesity is caused by the foods that are consumed and over-consumed - that is the point.  But if you think it is so 'black and white' then you should try some critical thinking - a good skill to have.

btw - it is just not Fast Food (another black/white thought), but they are the major 'dealers'.

btw - all calories are not the same.  Sure from a pure 'calorie burn' they are, but not when it comes to metabolism (oops... another fact)


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## Tia (May 12, 2014)

The other half complains about me going to Sprouts. Says our food bill has gone up since I started shopping for more fresh vegetables, sprouted grain english muffins/bagels


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## easyrider (May 12, 2014)

There is no untainted edibles at McDonalds. Everything has something added to it. All of the foods are processed and all of the so called fresh foods are either gmo's or washed in chemicals. 

http://www.naturalnews.com/045063_potatoes_GMOs_pesticides.html

Bill


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## dioxide45 (May 12, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> This is a few months old, but still topical:
> 
> http://higherperspective.com/2014/0...cdonalds-burgers-unfit-human-consumption.html



Isn't this the same thing the OP posted in post #1?


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## geekette (May 13, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Haven't checked on this thread for a while.
> My 'facts' are indeed facts - you are missing the point - of course obesity is caused by the foods that are consumed and over-consumed - that is the point.  But if you think it is so 'black and white' then you should try some critical thinking - a good skill to have.
> 
> btw - it is just not Fast Food (another black/white thought), but they are the major 'dealers'.
> ...



Thanks, I'll exit this thread to go learn some critical thinking.  appreciate the tip ...


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## presley (May 13, 2014)

Tia said:


> The other half complains about me going to Sprouts. Says our food bill has gone up since I started shopping for more fresh vegetables, sprouted grain english muffins/bagels



Yesterday, I went to smaller chain natural foods store.  Love the store and the food choices, but it's out of the way and very expensive.  I spent $140. for 2 bags of groceries.  I'll be eating great for a few days and then I'll have to head back over the normal grocery store where I can buy about 6 bags of tasteless food for about the same money.


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## ScoopKona (May 13, 2014)

presley said:


> Yesterday, I went to smaller chain natural foods store.  Love the store and the food choices, but it's out of the way and very expensive.  I spent $140. for 2 bags of groceries.  I'll be eating great for a few days and then I'll have to head back over the normal grocery store where I can buy about 6 bags of tasteless food for about the same money.



Or you could learn to make your own baked goods and pay the cost of a bag of flour.

I know a guy who lives by the Pritikin diet. Healthiest dude I know. But even HE agrees that diet is basically religion. Arguing about diet is about as useful as arguing politics or arguing religion. Don't believe me? Talk to a vegetarian for 15 seconds.

I have a very simple diet -- if I can make it from scratch, I can eat it. I would include "food AND drink" but I am unable to make wine in this climate. I know absolutely everything that goes into my food, and I'm completely unaffected by all the food scares that seem to happen every few months. (For instance, I grind my own beef. I know the rancher who raised the cattle. If there's ever a e-coli problem, I can pick up the phone and give him an earful.)

My way costs MUCH less. And if the food is "tasteless," -- complain to the cook in the mirror. I rarely eat out, and when I do, it's places where I know the chefs.

Works for me. If it works for you, that's great. If it doesn't, that's great, too. Just don't expect me to pay for someone's diabetes treatment from a lifetime of eating processed sugar and high-fructose corn syrup. That's all I ask.


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## SMHarman (May 13, 2014)

geekette said:


> I'm a little concerned about your facts, davnrobin.
> 
> Obesity is not caused by these foods, it is caused by the consuming person not expending at least as many calories as they consume.  Please don't blame the food/pseudo-food.
> 
> Most health issues are not caused by A Food, they result from a number of different factors, which may include a lack of healthy food.  This is not the same as saying that unhealthy food causes illness, else we would have outlawed a lot of non-fast-food yum yums eons ago.  Why only dump on fast food joints?   They do not own the market on unhealthy food.



Oh I missed this one, Geekette, you should read up on calorific density of foods.  It is really easy to eat say a stick of butter in a few cookies (a calorifically dense food) and feel hungry soon after compared to eating a big bowl of lightly dressed salads which are calorifically less dense and take a lot more energy to digest keeping a feeling of satiation for longer.

Add to that the salt or MSG or yeast extract or any of the other 30 plus ingredients that contain free glutamic acids to make the food all the more appealing, the reason you can't stop putting those goldfish in your mouth.
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html


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## Patri (May 13, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> Just don't expect me to pay for someone's diabetes treatment from a lifetime of eating processed sugar and high-fructose corn syrup. That's all I ask.



We aren't asking and you are paying.


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## ScoopKona (May 13, 2014)

Patri said:


> We aren't asking and you are paying.



And that's the problem, right there.

It's one thing to pay for the medical bills of people who are down on their luck, rolled snake-eyes on the genetic lottery, and similar. (Andy Kaufman dying from a rare form of lung cancer, even though he never smoked, for example.)

But when people purposefully harm themselves over a lifetime -- eating crap, drinking crap, smoking and doing drugs -- that's another matter entirely.


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## SMHarman (May 13, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> And that's the problem, right there.
> 
> It's one thing to pay for the medical bills of people who are down on their luck, rolled snake-eyes on the genetic lottery, and similar. (Andy Kaufman dying from a rare form of lung cancer, even though he never smoked, for example.)
> 
> But when people purposefully harm themselves over a lifetime -- eating crap, drinking crap, smoking and doing drugs -- that's another matter entirely.



It is going to be interesting to see how this changes in the US in my lifetime.  In Europe where you have a socialised healthcare system the acknowledgement that preventative treatment saves chronic healthcare spending is well understood by politicians.

The US up until this year has had an almost complete disconnect between healthcare spending which has been employer / employee driven and the food lobby / food bill and results of that.  The cause and effect are going to both start impacting the Federal and State budgets going forward and hopefully that will drive through change to healthier eating and preventative treatments.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> ..... Arguing about diet is about as useful as arguing politics or arguing religion. Don't believe me? Talk to a vegetarian for 15 seconds.
> .....



I have been around a few vegans --- some are very careful and are driven to keep a "clean" kitchen. Others should NOT eat everything deep fat fried - eggplant in the deep fat fryer is NOT healthy (then add salt to improve the taste). Stream eggplant with other vegetables is tasty also ... and healthier.

ScoopLV - yes, I am agreeing with you.


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## ScoopKona (May 13, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> The cause and effect are going to both start impacting the Federal and State budgets going forward and hopefully that will drive through change to healthier eating and preventative treatments.




I wouldn't hold my breath. So long as legislators can stick someone else with the bill, they will continue taking all those sweet, sweet campaign contributions from the corn and sugar companies. (Pun very much intended.)


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## MuranoJo (May 14, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> I have been around a few vegans --- some are very careful and are driven to keep a "clean" kitchen. Others should NOT eat everything deep fat fried - eggplant in the deep fat fryer is NOT healthy (then add salt to improve the taste). Stream eggplant with other vegetables is tasty also ... and healthier.
> 
> ScoopLV - yes, I am agreeing with you.



I was at a BBQ a couple of weeks ago where a couple of vegans attended.  Overheard the hostess reminding the host who was at the grill to be sure and use separate utensils to flip the veggie burgers.


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## Patri (May 14, 2014)

muranojo said:


> I was at a BBQ a couple of weeks ago where a couple of vegans attended.  Overheard the hostess reminding the host who was at the grill to be sure and use separate utensils to flip the veggie burgers.



That's a bit anal. I would have those guests cook their own food.


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## laurac260 (May 14, 2014)

Patri said:


> That's a bit anal. I would have those guests cook their own food.


  The poster said she over heard the "hostess reminding the host", not the vegan reminding the cook.  Seems the hostess was being thoughtful toward her guests.  

I am not a vegetarian, but I am respectful of my friends that I invite over, that do not eat meat.  I am more than happy to prepare a non meat alternative for them (sometimes I just make a non meat meal, with a SIDE of chicken).  I cannot imagine _inviting_ someone over and then treating them like a pariah by making them cook their own food because they do not eat as I do.


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## ScoopKona (May 14, 2014)

Patri said:


> That's a bit anal. I would have those guests cook their own food.



If the hypothetical guest was "observant Jew or Muslim" instead of "vegan" surely it would be considered reasonable to not use the same tongs that had previously turned pork sausages.

I don't think it's anal at all. They don't want contact with animal products. Whether I agree with their philosophy or not is irrelevant.


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## HatTrick (May 14, 2014)

Anyone know when the McRib is coming back?   :hysterical:


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## rleigh (May 14, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> And that's the problem, right there.
> 
> It's one thing to pay for the medical bills of people who are down on their luck, rolled snake-eyes on the genetic lottery, and similar. (Andy Kaufman dying from a rare form of lung cancer, even though he never smoked, for example.)
> 
> But when people purposefully harm themselves over a lifetime -- eating crap, drinking crap, smoking and doing drugs -- that's another matter entirely.



But how would you determine that and where would you draw the line?

What about the person who is in a wheelchair because they chose to drink and drive? But it turns out the problem was with a faulty car mechanism.

Or the DIYer who didn't practice caution when using a ladder while painting, and broke their ankle?

Or the smoker who got an autoimmune disorder that has been linked to smoking and asbestos, but is also hereditary, and not a lot is known about the disorder yet. 

People die everyday without doctors ever knowing for sure what caused the disease.


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## ScoopKona (May 14, 2014)

rleigh said:


> People die everyday without doctors ever knowing for sure what caused the disease.



Sure. But even more people die every day because they lived an unhealthy lifestyle. If some other country (preferably filled with people who aren't EXACTLY like us) did this to our people, we'd bomb them back into the stone age for it.

It chaps my posterior that we are subsidizing the very companies that are producing the "food" that makes us sick.


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## SMHarman (May 14, 2014)

NYTimes: An Inconvenient Truth About Our Food
http://nyti.ms/1gBsXsc

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## spirits (May 14, 2014)

*Forks Over Knives*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg&hd=1

Here is a clip from the video that caused my husband and myself to really rethink a lot of our food beliefs.  We are not plant based yet....but have made significant changes to our diet.  
The message from this movie is one that I hope people will consider and I look forward to other  comments.


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## Tia (May 15, 2014)

ScoopLV said:


> ....
> It chaps my posterior that we are subsidizing the very companies that are producing the "food" that makes us sick.



$$$ talks and it's all about profits, companies influence legislation.


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## SMHarman (May 15, 2014)

And specially crops don't lobby well as they don't have the advertising $

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## laurac260 (May 15, 2014)

spirits said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg&hd=1
> 
> Here is a clip from the video that caused my husband and myself to really rethink a lot of our food beliefs.  We are not plant based yet....but have made significant changes to our diet.
> The message from this movie is one that I hope people will consider and I look forward to other  comments.



I am glad that folks are finally, slowly starting to take notice of this stuff.  Now, I won't go so far as to say we have to be entirely plant based.   Meat is not the enemy.   Healthy animals, animals that are fed the proper diets, that are allowed to grow and mature and live the way nature intended them, those meats are still healthy to eat.  

MOST meat, and sadly now most FISH (the stuff you buy in the big box grocery stores), is "manufactured" in such a way that it is unfit for consumption.   Unfortunately though, until we stop subsidizing BiG Farm, we cannot really address the problem.  And, possibly equally as sadly, we have created a monster that is almost impossible to kill, that being the way our food is produced, the fast food market, the folks who live on it, the folks who make a living producing it, selling it, etc.


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## zinger1457 (May 15, 2014)

Tia said:


> $$$ talks and it's all about profits, companies influence legislation.



Yep, the great American tradition that has been going on since the USA was formed.  In the early years you couldn't even vote unless you were a land/property owner (~1/10 of the population) so I guess we're making some progress.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 17, 2014)

Sugar.  The real culprit for illness that is in many processed foods that simply don't need it.   .


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## laurac260 (May 19, 2014)

So, has anyone seen the movie "Fed Up" yet?  I didn't want to start a new thread just to ask this question.  

We have not yet seen it.  It is only showing in one theatre in Cincinnati, called the Esquire.  I am hoping to make it the end of this week.


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## ScoopKona (May 19, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> So, has anyone seen the movie "Fed Up" yet?  I didn't want to start a new thread just to ask this question.
> 
> We have not yet seen it.  It is only showing in one theatre in Cincinnati, called the Esquire.  I am hoping to make it the end of this week.



I don't even bother with theaters anymore. Between the gouging, the random shootings, the mess, etc., I just wait until I can watch it at home.


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## spirits (May 19, 2014)

*Fed up movie*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghYXzSWM8tM


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## Helaine (May 19, 2014)

This appears to be an older film called Fed Up, not the current one.


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