# [ 2014 ] Excel vs QuickBooks - I'm the volunteer treasurer of a large 501(c)(3)



## pjrose (Mar 19, 2014)

I was elected (i.e., roped into becoming) treasurer of a large non-profit 3 months ago, strictly volunteer position    I manage four bank accounts and deal with a lot of money (and yes, I'm bonded).  I have tons of computer experience and a good math background, but zero business or accounting knowledge.  

I've been using Excel and QuickBooks simultaneously, Excel because I know it, and QB because my predecessor used it.  

I find QB to be a PITA in many ways, but it does a nice job of printing checks.  I don't like its reports (I have to present monthly reports to a group of ~300 people).  The QB reports aren't (or don't seem to be) customizable and I can't have reports that say things like Profit and Loss :ignore:

Any thoughts on which of these might be best to stick with? And if it's Excel, how do I print checks?  Entering everything in both simultaneously is getting old quickly


----------



## SMHarman (Mar 19, 2014)

QuickBooks. 
I did similar and you can customize QuickBooks reports. 
Download the bank accounts online etc. 
My predecessor also ran parallel excellent but I soon reconciled and ditched that. 
1. 4 x auto bank recs in QuickBooks
2. MIS as required. 

Use the accounts and classes to correctly categorize for MIS. 

Pm me if you want to talk some more. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## geekette (Mar 19, 2014)

second quickbooks 

check out techsoup.org for donated software for non-profits, maybe they can get some free licenses.

A large non-profit should look into Blackbaud products, specifically Financial Edge for this situation.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Mar 20, 2014)

I'm not an accounting software expert, but as an association (non/not-for-profit executive director) my preference is with QB.  In fact, the association I just joined last month will be moving from Peachtree (a REAL PITA!!!) to QB later this year.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Mar 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> <<snipped>>The QB reports aren't (or don't seem to be) customizable and I can't have reports that say things like Profit and Loss



Those terms are standards in the non/not-for-profit sector so do not be worried about using them.

It's not "wrong" to have profit, as defined "income over expenses."  Many non/not-for-profits make a considerable amount of profit . . . and even pay IRS income tax on it (when it is made doing activities that are not directly tied to your exempt purpose/mission AND are for services, etc. that generally are offered by FOR profit businesses).

I'd be happy to help you with the concept/terms offline if you'd like.


----------



## Timeshare Von (Mar 20, 2014)

geekette said:


> second quickbooks
> 
> check out techsoup.org for donated software for non-profits, maybe they can get some free licenses.
> 
> A large non-profit should look into Blackbaud products, specifically Financial Edge for this situation.



Just to clarify, Tech Soup is an outstanding resource, but they only give to certain 501(c)3's.  Fortunately, the OP is talking about a (c)3 so hopefully her organization will qualify.


----------



## pjrose (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks for the responses so far.  We did get our QB through techsoup.  

I have trouble with the QB screen when looking at a bank account; the font is too small and the close-together blue/white lines run together.  I'd like the ability to make the display bigger (and QB's "zoom" doesn't do it) and to choose different colors or borders or something to make the blue/white lines easier for my vision.  

I also find QB cluttered, as there is so much I don't use - we don't have employees or payroll, we don't have vehicles, we don't bill.  

As I am unfamiliar with accounting terms I don't know how to label things (is the starting balance for a given account in QB an equity? or ??  I mean once I started QB if there was already $150.00 in a given account, I labeled it "QB starting balance" but I don't know what "type" that is).  

I don't like that each time I write a check to someone or a company that QB doesn't know about it insists that I enter that person/company.

I don't like that the various codes for each type of income/expense do not (as far as I know) print separately on reports - e.g. I'd like 4144 and description to be in separate columns, not run together in one column.  

On the other hand, it does a good job of printing checks (though there are at least three different places to enter print commands, and they aren't equivalent).  


I like the flexibility of Excel   I can use the fonts and cell sizes and borders I want, can set up the reports the way I want, can have the codes in a separate column.....

However, I do trust my fellow TUGgers, and I realize that some of the issues are user issues - I need to get used to the beastie, perhaps I need better glasses LOL, and I need to learn the jargon


----------



## ace2000 (Mar 20, 2014)

Definitely QuickBooks and take a class (actually more than one class) or online course quickly.


----------



## ace2000 (Mar 20, 2014)

If you'd like a cheap online option that is top notch, try these guys.  You can pay them directly or through a local college.  I used to be an administrator at a community college and they're great to work with, plus the students loved them.

http://www.ed2go.com/


----------



## Kal (Mar 20, 2014)

QuickBooks is clearly the software of choice.  Try Googling "Financial" or "Accounting software".  I can't imagine excel would ever appear on the search results.

 I've been using QB for over 10 years and you can tailor everything.  It's a very nice software and most likely the industry standard.

 Also have used Excel for at least 25 years and it too is a great software.  Just the thought of using it as an accounting software is, to me, not even an option.


----------



## ace2000 (Mar 20, 2014)

Pjrose - if you're dead set on Excel, and check printing is the main drawback... I'm sure there is check printing software out there that will be able use your Excel spreadsheet as a data source and allow you to print.  I haven't looked into that myself, but that's not difficult to do for a programmer or database specialist.  However, I'd recommend trying to learn QB and make it work.


----------



## laura1957 (Mar 20, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> If you'd like a cheap online option that is top notch, try these guys.  You can pay them directly or through a local college.  I used to be an administrator at a community college and they're great to work with, plus the students loved them.
> 
> http://www.ed2go.com/



I second this!!   I have taken a few classes from local community college through ed2go - Spanish refresher, accounting AND Quickbook class.  My husband uses QB for his business and I just wanted to know a little bit - I learned much more than I needed, and it was very interesting!


----------



## isisdave (Mar 20, 2014)

Quickbooks does have way more than you need. I manage a small nonprofit with Quickbooks 2000. I'm pretty sure that the reports are customizable, but I never have had to do that. There is a special nonprofit version but it's not cheap, if you already have the standard version. The big difference is that it does fund accounting easily, but you can do fund accounting with the standard version with a little thought (or by Googling "fund accounting with quickbooks".

QB has a network of local experts you can hire.  Why not get someone like that to help you get set up the way you want. Or inquire in the accounting department of you local community college. Or (gasp) look on Craigslist.


----------



## geekette (Mar 20, 2014)

Kal said:


> QuickBooks is clearly the software of choice.  Try Googling "Financial" or "Accounting software".  I can't imagine excel would ever appear on the search results.
> 
> I've been using QB for over 10 years and you can tailor everything.  It's a very nice software and most likely the industry standard.
> 
> Also have used Excel for at least 25 years and it too is a great software.  Just the thought of using it as an accounting software is, to me, not even an option.



completely concur.  Excel is great at what it does, but this is not what it does.


----------



## "Roger" (Mar 20, 2014)

I am treasurer for a small non-profit and detest QuickBooks.  

The reports are customizable to a point, but there are some very simple things which it will not do.  I can run profit losses for whatever dates I want, put in different filters, and other things.  On the other hand, if I want profit loss for just a single event that we run, I can print out just the profits (income) or just the losses (expenses), but not both for the same event (without producing an entire profit loss statement covering everything that we do).  What I have do to is export the data to Excel and then produce the statement that I need by either copying and pasting or subtracting everything that I do not want in the report. I have been in contact with someone much more conversant with QuickBooks and when I asked how do you do what I want, he did not know of a work around.  Maybe there is, but is sure is not as obvious as it should be.


----------



## SMHarman (Mar 20, 2014)

"Roger" said:


> I am treasurer for a small non-profit and detest QuickBooks.
> 
> The reports are customizable to a point, but there are some very simple things which it will not do.  I can run profit losses for whatever dates I want, put in different filters, and other things.  On the other hand, if I want profit loss for just a single event that we run, I can print out just the profits (income) or just the losses (expenses), but not both for the same event (without producing an entire profit loss statement covering everything that we do).  What I have do to is export the data to Excel and then produce the statement that I need by either copying and pasting or subtracting everything that I do not want in the report. I have been in contact with someone much more conversant with QuickBooks and when I asked how do you do what I want, he did not know of a work around.  Maybe there is, but is sure is not as obvious as it should be.



Yes you can.  You set each event up as a Class.

I had 

Membership Income
Event Income
Event Refunds
as my P&L / GL accounts.

Then in the Classes I set up the specific events.
Summer Baseball Game
Bake Sale
and when I get income, or write a check for that event I give it a class.

You then use the income / expense by class report and filter on the specific class / subclass

e.g. 2014/Bake Sale and get the results for that event.

When the event is done and closed out you can lock the class so nothing new can be posted to it, keeping the class list current and keeping old even accouning as a job done.

http://support.quickbooks.intuit.co...ntPackage/Core/Classes/task_assign_class.html

http://support.quickbooks.intuit.co.../core/classes/task_list_class.html?family=pro

https://www.b2bcfo.com/article/using-classes-in-quickbooks.html


----------



## SMHarman (Mar 20, 2014)

geekette said:


> completely concur.  Excel is great at what it does, but this is not what it does.



Excell will work for a while and then it will become over complex and break and be out of balance.

Excel does not force balanced double entry bookkeeping and once your accounts are out of balance finding where you messed up will drive you batty.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/88-of-spreadsheets-have-errors-2013-04-17



> Microsoft Excel makes it easy for anyone to do the kind of number crunching once reserved for accountants and statisticians. But the world’s best-selling spreadsheet software has also contributed to the proliferation of bad math.
> 
> Close to 90% of spreadsheet documents contain errors, a 2008 analysis of multiple studies suggests. “Spreadsheets, even after careful development, contain errors in 1% or more of all formula cells,” writes Ray Panko , a professor of IT management at the University of Hawaii and an authority on bad spreadsheet practices. “In large spreadsheets with thousands of formulas, there will be dozens of undetected errors.”


----------



## b2bailey (Mar 20, 2014)

I've used QB at two different non-profits. Although it may take some extra work upfront, for instance using 'classes' you can accomplish everything you want and need to do. I can't even imagine trying to do it all in Excel. Even in the old days -- yes, I am THAT old -- we used handwritten journal entries. But the secret was always using what they called Double entry bookkeeping.


----------



## amycurl (Mar 20, 2014)

I would say QB for an organization of your size is industry standard. Excel is more for smaller groups that have, say, less than 30 transactions a month and outsource payroll.

I get these kinds of questions all the time, from many different sized nonprofit groups, as part of my job. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Other local CFO and treasurers of similarly-sized NPs will probably also help you set up/ advise you on setting up the QB correctly, if you ask.


----------



## pjrose (Mar 20, 2014)

With a nearly unanimous reply of QuickBooks, it looks like I'll continue with it.  I'll just have to get used to the small font and the difficult (for me) to read blue/white lines.  The issue there is that they all run together; it'd be so much more visually clear if there were a border around, or space between, each blue-white "pair".  

Dealing with QB's peculiarities is one issue, and learning accounting 101 is another.  Just as an example, I didn't understand SMHarmon's post 16 about classes, nor discussion of double entry bookkeeping.  I assume the latter means enter and add everything two ways and make sure it adds up the same?  Wow, I hate displaying my ignorance 

I like the idea of a course, though I may just start with a book instead.  I'm a fast reader and absorb well from reading, and a course might be too slow.  

So, what book might anyone recommend?  An "accounting 101" text?  I probably wouldn't go for a "dummies" or "idiots" book; I find them so cluttered with cutesie-pie little pictures.    

I did download the entire QB manual and will probably start skimming it.  I'm guessing it presumes that I already know what various terms mean.....but if I don't, Google is my friend


----------



## isisdave (Mar 20, 2014)

Supposedly QB2013 has easier-to-read registers. For pre-2013, 

http://support.quickbooks.intuit.com/support/articles/HOW13062

shows how to make the fonts bigger. I think making the fonts bigger also increases the row height.


----------



## amycurl (Mar 20, 2014)

Quickbooks Made Easy has trainings especially for nonprofits. There are also usually nonprofit associations at either the local, regional, or state level that offer QB training just for nps.


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> I was elected treasurer of a large non-profit 3 months ago, strictly volunteer position    I manage four bank accounts and deal with a lot of money (and yes, I'm bonded).  I have tons of computer experience and a good math background, but zero business or accounting knowledge.



Congratulations! Volunteering at a non-profit can be a real challenge, and I applaud your dedication to be treasurer. 

A treasurer doesn't necessarily need to know accounting. But you should have a solid support team that do, especially for "a large non-profit". I wouldn't do it, and I can be quite dangerous with accounting apps. 

As others have said, go with QuickBooks. It's a very simple accounting package, and is very forgiving. It's designed for people who are not accountants (most accountants I know resign themselves to assisting their clients with QB and prefer to use a "real" system). Excel, on the other hand, is not an accounting application, and should never be used for accounting. It is not an appropriate option and even though you are a volunteer if you have the authority to select which application you use at the organization then you may be held responsible should there be issues. Choose carefully - and I suspect no one would complain about choosing QuickBooks.

I suggest you ask the membership of your non-profit for assistance in setting up QuickBooks. It's likely there are one or more accountants in your group and perhaps they would volunteer to help you build a chart of accounts and help out with the initial setup. Once that's done, I suspect you'll be able to more easily maintain it. I know from personal experience that after you spend (countless) hours updating the system the last thing you want to do is enter all the data again. It happens.

Good luck!


----------



## pjrose (Mar 21, 2014)

isisdave said:


> Supposedly QB2013 has easier-to-read registers. For pre-2013,
> 
> http://support.quickbooks.intuit.com/support/articles/HOW13062
> 
> shows how to make the fonts bigger. I think making the fonts bigger also increases the row height.



Looks great - but it's Windows.  I'm Mac.  The file the link said to edit isn't on Mac.  Once on Support.quickbooks I searched font size Mac but didn't find anything useful.  Any ideas?

BUT - with a given account open, I did find Change Account Color under Edit.  Duh - I'm always the one who says to explore the menus.   Now at least I can read the register better!  



amycurl said:


> Quickbooks Made Easy has trainings especially for nonprofits. There are also usually nonprofit associations at either the local, regional, or state level that offer QB training just for nps.




Thanks for the idea; I'll check into it.




Ken555 said:


> Congratulations! Volunteering at a non-profit can be a real challenge, and I applaud your dedication to be treasurer.
> 
> . . .  perhaps they would volunteer to help you build a chart of accounts and help out with the initial setup. Once that's done, I suspect you'll be able to more easily maintain it. I know from personal experience that after you spend (countless) hours updating the system the last thing you want to do is enter all the data again. It happens.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks.  I already made the chart of accounts.  One thing I DO like is that QB backs up every time I use it


----------



## geekette (Mar 21, 2014)

sounds like you're making great progress!!!  maybe you will become a freelance QB consultant??  

I kinda figured you would be alright, as my sister, who is not very computery and not an accountant, but was a math teacher, took a pt job where she had to learn QB and it wasn't that daunting for her.  I knew you could get it!!!


----------



## geekette (Mar 21, 2014)

and if you really want to use Excel somehow in this, perhaps you can export to Excel and make nice charts and graphs?  Pictures save busy people a lot of time and make it very nice to present to BOD/donors.  

no clue if you can automate it from QB but if you can, all the better to shoot them out regularly right before bigwig pow-wows.  you'd easily nab Volunteer of the Year!


----------



## SMHarman (Mar 21, 2014)

geekette said:


> and if you really want to use Excel somehow in this, perhaps you can export to Excel and make nice charts and graphs?  Pictures save busy people a lot of time and make it very nice to present to BOD/donors.
> 
> no clue if you can automate it from QB but if you can, all the better to shoot them out regularly right before bigwig pow-wows.  you'd easily nab Volunteer of the Year!



http://support.quickbooks.intuit.co...kage/Core/Reports_Use/help_prefreport_F1.html

As the OP noted, QB is very powerful but most don't bother with the inbuilt functionality they export back to excel and report using what they know.

If you take the time to sort this out in QB then it is a one and done thing and each month you can download the transactions from online banking, auto balance / reconcile the check book, run the reporting pack and look like a hero yet only put in a few hours work.


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 21, 2014)

The Mac version of quickbooks is not as full featured as windows. I know many businesses, including my own, which prefer to use quickbooks online instead of the Mac version.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Paulina Aguirre (Dec 20, 2017)

I believe accounting software can do better than excel for accounting purpose. Zipbooks is the best in this case. zipbooks.com/


----------



## DeniseM (Dec 20, 2017)

Please note - this thread is from 2014.


----------

