# Newbie to Starwood



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

Hi,

Today my wife and I went to a presentation at the Sheraton Broadway Plantation here in Myrtle Beach while on our honeymoon.  We went in with an open mind and not really interested on buying anything due to our current financial situation.

We loved the presentation and all that this ownership seems to offer.  We started off with the Explorer program that locks us in at today's price for a year.  I guess we don't really know too much about this stuff and it seemed like a good idea, as a way to allow us to afford a few vacations that normally may seem out of reach.

Not sure if it was a good idea and basically hoping we didn't make a mistake.  We can afford it monthly but I guess I'm asking the fellow members to "sell" the Starwood product to me lol.

I suppose I'm nervous that I'm going to find just as cheap a hotel rate right now on hotels.com or some other website since we are getting 50% off the hotel stays for a year until making an official purchase into Vacation Ownership.

Sorry if I'm missing seeing any of this already posted on this forum.  Thanks in advance.

Matt


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Hi Matt - You should rescind this Pkg. immediately.  This is a nice resort, but because of the economy, people are GIVING AWAY timeshares there.

Here is a link to a free timeshare, right here on TUG - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146368

Please read this article about rescinding - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

Rescind, and then come back and talk to us about it, for lots more info. about how to get a timeshare for FREE.


----------



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Hi Matt - You should rescind this Pkg. immediately.  This is a nice resort, but because of the economy, people are GIVING AWAY timeshares there.
> 
> Here is a link to a free timeshare, right here on TUG - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146368
> 
> ...



I guess I don't understand what jerseygirl is offering in myrtle.  Are they offering the same thing with points per year?  The vacation ownership package is around 17,000 that we want.  Is hers no cost at all to buy other than transfer and offering the same thing?  

Also our terms and conditions on this says the explorer package is non refundable and will not be entitled to a refund of any payments made here under.

Sorry if I sound like I have no clue.  I guess I didn't when buying...


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Yes - she is offering to give away a deeded timeshare, with no expiration, at Sheraton Broadway Plantation for FREE.  The new owner just has to pay the transfer fees (probably less than $200.)



> Sheraton Broadway Plantation Annual Gold Plus Float – One Bedroom
> * 2011 Maintenance Fee $547.98 paid in full
> * Usage begins in 2012 or can reimburse maintenance and guest certificate fees and I’ll transfer the 2011 usage at Harborside Dec 3-10 in a one-BR unit if desired
> * One-Bedroom / One Bath / Sleeps 4
> ...



It will not have points - but the ability to convert to points is NOT worth *$17,000 PLUS interest!*  

If you acquire a free timeshare like this one, you can use it yourself, and also trade it with an exchange company to visit other resorts.

And this is every year usage - I'm guessing the one you were offered for $17,000 is every other year?

It makes no sense to pay the developer thousands of dollars, when you can get the same thing for FREE!

*One more point - the number of points you will get will be very low.


----------



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

Ok I guess I jumped the gun buying.  The paper said under terms and conditions that I can not get a refund...I only put down $198 and I guess if I lose that I don't mind as compared to losing a lot more.  I guess I don't want to be on the hook for the rest of the amount.  I'm all for free stuff haha 
plus transfer fees of course


----------



## Denise L (May 4, 2011)

Hi Matt,

You are right that Sheraton Broadway Plantation is a lovely resort  .  All the recent upgrades and renovations look really nice.  Great location, too.  We owned a week there and are in the process of transferring it to a nice family who lives in Pennsylvania for transfer fees only.  It is an annual week in the Plantation section that floats 9-43, 47, and is considered Gold Plus, I think.  It would be worth 67,100 in Staroptions if it had Staroptions attached to it.

Starwood offers you Staroptions and conversion to Starpoints if you buy directly from them, and neither of these are available on the "resale" market if you buy at a non-mandatory resort like Broadway Plantation.  However, the 17K you would save from not having those options is huge.

It is fine to buy an Explorer Package and explore.  I actually don't think the cost of that is tremendous and you do get some accommodations, discounts, and Starpoints for that time period.  It used to be that you could apply that purchase to your final Starwood Vacation Ownership purchase, so I think what DeniseM is saying is don't do that part.  I understand that the Explorer package may be non-refundable, but that is fine.  You can enjoy that package!

Now, a lot of us here were happy to buy from Starwood at full price (we did in 2003), and we enjoy the Starwood resorts A LOT.  The quality is high and we love our home resort (Maui).  Depending on how far in advance you plan and where you travel to, a Starwood purchase may be perfect for you.  Just take your time and learn a lot here about timesharing, and what will work best for your family.  There is nothing wrong with buying an Explorer Package (we did)  .


----------



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

Denise L said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> You are right that Sheraton Broadway Plantation is a lovely resort  .  All the recent upgrades and renovations look really nice.  Great location, too.  We owned a week there and are in the process of transferring it to a nice family who lives in Pennsylvania for transfer fees only.  It is an annual week in the Plantation section that floats 9-43, 47, and is considered Gold Plus, I think.  It would be worth 67,100 in Staroptions if it had Staroptions attached to it.
> 
> ...



Thank you Denises lol  I think that buying afterwards for the full price after the Explorer package may be a bad idea based on the economy.  This may be a "live and learn" situation for me.  But for the 1950 for the Explorer Package that includes 50% off hotels and a 5 night 4 day stay in a 2 bedroom villa within the year, may not be a total loss if I say "no" afterwards lol


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Matt - You really need to sit down and look at the Explorer Pkg., see what you are getting, and see if it's worth what you paid for it.   For $1,950, you can rent two weeks at this resort - that's way too much for 4 night stay.

-Also, the 50% off coupon is for 50% off the rack rate (highest rate) so it is virtually useless.  

As far as buying from the developer, I must respectfully disagree with DeniseL.  It makes no sense to pay $17,000 + interest for something you can buy for $200.

And if $17,000 is for an every-other-year deed, you would only get 67,100 Staroptions every other year - a very low amount.

I also bought from the developer at the same Maui resort before finding TUG and the resale market, and frankly, that was a disaster.

We paid $45,000 for our Maui timeshare - it's now selling for about $10,000 on the resale market - yes, a loss of $35,000.    

To make it even worse, in the 9 years we've owned it, the maintenance fee has DOUBLED......so I am not happy with my developer purchase at all!


----------



## Denise L (May 4, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> As far as buying from the developer, I must respectfully disagree with DeniseL.  It makes no sense to pay $17,000 + interest for something you can buy for $200.
> 
> And if $17,000 is for an every-other-year deed, you would only get 67,100 Staroptions every other year - a very low amount.
> 
> ...



Hey DeniseM!  I never told MattK to buy from Starwood.  I told him that it's okay to explore and see if Starwood is right for him.  I certainly would encourage him to get a free timeshare if that works out for his family.

I think we agree that paying full freight is too much, I just said it differently so he doesn't feel like he wasted too much of his $198 yet.....


----------



## Denise L (May 4, 2011)

Denise L said:


> Now, a lot of us here were happy to buy from Starwood at full price (we did in 2003), and we enjoy the Starwood resorts A LOT.  The quality is high and we love our home resort (Maui).  Depending on how far in advance you plan and where you travel to, a Starwood purchase may be perfect for you.  Just take your time and learn a lot here about timesharing, and what will work best for your family.  There is nothing wrong with buying an Explorer Package (we did)  .



1) A lot of us WERE happy to buy from Starwood (true at the time)
2) The quality is high
3) A Starwood purchase may be perfect (I did not say retail)
4) There is nothing wrong with buying an Explorer Package


----------



## MommaBear (May 4, 2011)

I am also at SBP this week and have fallen in love with the resort and the area. So, instead of spending too much, I bought 1 week in a premium villa annually for $1 and $49 closing costs on ebay.... In fact, when the sales staff found out I had bought my 2 br Vistana Resorts/ Courts AND my 2 br l/o at Vistana Resorts/Cascades for $1 on ebay (and no closing costs), they would not invite me to a sales presentation!


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Denise L said:


> Hey DeniseM!  I never told MattK to buy from Starwood.



Thank you for clarifying that - from your comment about being happy about buying from the developer, I misinterpreted your statement.


----------



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Matt - You really need to sit down and look at the Explorer Pkg., see what you are getting, and see if it's worth what you paid for it.   For $1,950, you can rent two weeks at this resort - that's way too much for 4 night stay.
> 
> -Also, the 50% off coupon is for 50% off the rack rate (highest rate) so it is virtually useless.
> 
> ...



ouch....sorry for that loss 

Yes that much would be for an every other year.  I feel really stupid now for not researching, when usually I research most things before buying. 

Well I would have to say I made a $1900 boo boo based on what my paper work says.  I'm glad I found this website before making a $17,000 or $24,000 boo boo.

I suppose I will look more at the paper work to see if I can rescind this Explorer Package altogether.  If not, tough lesson learned ...


----------



## tschwa2 (May 4, 2011)

*Explorer Packages*

My understanding is that explorer packages do not have a recind period like timeshares.  Double check the fine print and if you see something or can cancel with just the $198 paid lost then go ahead and cancel.  If not the whole amount is due and they can ding your credit for not paying. Make reservations for a return date of your chosing and enjoy.  You will probably have to do a repeat presentation but get educated on the TS product before you go and so "NO" or yes if after really learning about it find its something you want.


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Matt - If it were me, it would be worth it to forfeit $198, to avoid paying the other $1,752.  Why throw good money after bad?


----------



## vacationtime1 (May 4, 2011)

The problem with the Explorer Package is that you will be obliged to sit through another high pressure sales pitch when you return.  There is no reason for you to do that.  As others have already said, you can rent a full week in a larger unit for that price or less.


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

Denise L said:


> 4) There is nothing wrong with buying an Explorer Package



Of course it's not "wrong," but it's a poor value, so it doesn't make financial $ense for Matt to buy it, if he can get out of it.


----------



## MattK (May 4, 2011)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says no refunds or cancellations.  I have good credit so paying the rest is worth it for my credit.  I'll just say no afterwards.  I'm strong enough to say that after another sales pitch.  I will hang around this website as long as possible and look into some deals that other people may have from selling their own vacation ownerships or timeshares.  Thanks again everyone!  If anyone has anymore advice to school me on, I'm more than happy to hear it.  I'm new and a very anxious learner!


----------



## DeniseM (May 4, 2011)

MattK said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says no refunds or cancellations.  I have good credit so paying the rest is worth it for my credit.  I'll just say no afterwards.  I'm strong enough to say that after another sales pitch.  I will hang around this website as long as possible and look into some deals that other people may have from selling their own vacation ownerships or timeshares.  Thanks again everyone!  If anyone has anymore advice to school me on, I'm more than happy to hear it.  I'm new and a very anxious learner!



Matt - I recommend that you start by reading the Starwood FAQ at the top of this forum, and letting us know what questions you have.

After that, you might want to start browsing the many other resources posted at the top of this forum - under "Starwood Owner Resources."

There is a pretty steep learning curve with timeshares, so take your time - you will be glad you did!


----------



## Ken555 (May 4, 2011)

Regardless of what it says, I suggest you talk with the sales staff and tell them you want to rescind. You've thought about it, and the high pressure sales got to you and you bought, now you regret that and want to cancel. Be clear and factual. If they refuse, call your credit card (assuming you paid via cc) and tell them about the situation. At times, vendors don't want to deal with the hassle and will do the right thing even if the documents lock you down. Be sure to tell them you're still interested in a unit but don't want the pressure involved with this package, etc. 

And fwiw, the 50% off rack rate deal is also available at any time for just 1,000 StarPoints. I just used one for the first time after it turned out to save a bit for one upcoming stay. I was surprised it helped. But the actual value is quite low... $200 or so, in my case.


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 4, 2011)

Agree - try and get out of the ExpPkg by discussing with them (polite but firm and factual), and if that doesn't work - try to go through your CC company.  Do not just write this off as a $1900 lesson - as you have much better things to do with $1900.

Do this asap - waiting will only go against you.

If you get stuck with the ExpPkg (if all else fails) - then make the best of it.  >90% of people on this board have made a variation of this hard lesson - and we all make the best of it.

gl


----------



## YYJMSP (May 4, 2011)

MattK said:


> We loved the presentation and all that this ownership seems to offer.  We started off with the Explorer program that locks us in at today's price for a year.



The Explorer package locks in the price for 90 days, not a year...

If you make a purchase within a year, you can apply the price you paid for the Explorer package against it.

You have to return (subject to availability) within (I think it was) 18 months for a follow-up presentation to get the SPG points.


----------



## vss (May 5, 2011)

To be fair - the 50,000 (or 60,000) Starpoints that MattK will receive after going through the return sales presentation also have good value.  At a conservative 2.5c per Starpoint thats worth $1,250 or $1,500.  This combined with the four free nights make it a reasonably attractive package.... Just my opinion...


----------



## SDKath (May 5, 2011)

vss said:


> To be fair - the 50,000 (or 60,000) Starpoints that MattK will receive after going through the return sales presentation also have good value.  At a conservative 2.5c per Starpoint thats worth $1,250 or $1,500.  This combined with the four free nights make it a reasonably attractive package.... Just my opinion...



Agree.  Also, do you HAVE to go back to the same resort?  Maybe you can go to another resort instead to check out another property.

Katherine


----------



## sail27bill (May 5, 2011)

MattK--Check the fine print.  I was able to cancel an Explorer Package that I purchased at Vistana Villages for only a $99 processing fee.  I was given 7 days in which to cancel.  Luckily I had found Tug (already bought 2 developer and wanted to buy a third) so it may be possible.  I would not continue paying if you can get out of it.  This resort is nice but is selling for pennies on the dollar.  If possible, recind now, the starpoints and the couple of days of another vacation is not worth the $1950.

Good Luck,
Anita


----------



## MattK (May 5, 2011)

sail27bill said:


> MattK--Check the fine print.  I was able to cancel an Explorer Package that I purchased at Vistana Villages for only a $99 processing fee.  I was given 7 days in which to cancel.  Luckily I had found Tug (already bought 2 developer and wanted to buy a third) so it may be possible.  I would not continue paying if you can get out of it.  This resort is nice but is selling for pennies on the dollar.  If possible, recind now, the starpoints and the couple of days of another vacation is not worth the $1950.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Anita



The points were part of what enticed us...

BUT I read some find print and called them.  I am able to rescind within 14 days of purchase and the only thing I lose which is non-refundable is the $198 deposit.  

Since I'm in a condo on my honeymoon, of course there is no paper to write a letter to rescind to email and/or fax.  Just what we want to be doing on our honeymoon.  At least it will hopefully ONLY be a $198 loss.  

I am still very interested in a time share or vacation home/ ownership down here in Myrtle, but of course looking for a deal now rather than paying full price through retail.  

Thanks again everyone.  I slept like crap last night agonizing over a possible mistake lol!!

I will be doing a lot of reading over the next few days!!

Matt


----------



## hefleycatz (May 5, 2011)

SDKath said:


> Agree.  Also, do you HAVE to go back to the same resort?  Maybe you can go to another resort instead to check out another property.
> 
> Katherine



I know the package that we bought at Vistana Villages back in 2008 was good for there, Vistana Resort or SBP.  

lee


----------



## ekinggill (May 5, 2011)

*Welcome Matt*

No shame in being sold at the resort.  The have you there, you are having the time of your life, and they are very persuasive.  From what I've read, most people on this board have a timeshare-related misstep in their past.

You seem to be interested in getting a timeshare education and you found the right place to do that.  Joining TUG, in my opinion, is the best timeshare investment you can make.  (You can view most things as a guest, but I think the education is worth supporting the board.)

My other advice would be to be patient and make your purchase without a high pressure salesmen telling you that you will lose out if you don't buy today.   Right now there are tons of rentals at most resorts that can be had for the price of the annual maintenance fee or less.  Based upon that, you actually might have more flexibility to move between resorts from vacation to vacation if you are NOT an owner.  (For example, it can be hard to trade into the Westin St. John, but renting a villa from an owner is very easy.)  On top of that, as a non-owner if you want to skip a year, you pay nothing.


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 5, 2011)

vss said:


> To be fair - the 50,000 (or 60,000) Starpoints that MattK will receive after going through the return sales presentation also have good value.  At a conservative 2.5c per Starpoint thats worth $1,250 or $1,500.  This combined with the four free nights make it a reasonably attractive package.... Just my opinion...



conservative 2.5c/SP???
I guess that depends on your definition.

At ~$2000 for the ExpPkg - which...
at 50K SPs = 4.0c/SP (you can buy them for 3.5c)
at 60K SPs = 3.3c/SP (still...?)
at 80K SPs = 2.5c/SP (perhaps... depending...?)

even at 2.5C/SP - which is considered by FT experts to be on the high side of average value (which is put between 2-2.5c/SP) - which is a number I tend to agree with from my experience of SP usage (~300K so far both in US and EU)
btw (tangent block) - I am not talking about SO-SP conversion here - as that brings in different variables.

ask yourself - would you buy them if they were offered to you at 2.5c/SP?

as stated before - SP value is based on how many you have.  Those with lots of SPs (we still have ~300K) would be a lot less inclined to pay this price (IMO).
I would not buy SPs until they were less than half of this.

so... I am going to respectively disagree
let the fuzzy math argument begin...


----------



## vss (May 6, 2011)

David,  No funny math here but I did buy an Explorer package last year at WMH and the deal was two nights at WMH and 50,000 SPs for $1,300.  I figured each night at WMH at peak season is at least $300+ (inc taxes & resort fees) which meant I was getting 50K SPs for around $700 or 1.4c/SP.  Not too shabby....

Now we need to get the details on the package MattK bought...

If I had 300K SP I may not have bought the package but I am trying to accumulate SPs for a nice European vacation next year.  As they say - one persons trash......... 

Take Care!


----------



## YYJMSP (May 6, 2011)

vss said:


> David,  No funny math here but I did buy an Explorer package last year at WMH and the deal was two nights at WMH and 50,000 SPs for $1,300.  I figured each night at WMH at peak season is at least $300+ (inc taxes & resort fees) which meant I was getting 50K SPs for around $700 or 1.4c/SP.  Not too shabby....



We got a 5 nights + 70K SPG points package for $1700 at WMH last year, with an additional 30K SPG points for not returning -- I think the extra points thing is unique to Explorer West, and is not available with Explorer East.  Not as good a $/SP ratio as yours, but we were going to purchase a developer unit anyways, so this was essentially 100K SPG points for free as the $1700 was applied against the purchase.



vss said:


> If I had 300K SP I may not have bought the package but I am trying to accumulate SPs for a nice European vacation next year.  As they say - one persons trash.........



About 3 years ago, we did a month for 280K SPG points (staying in Paris, Monaco, Milan, Zurich, Vienna, Venice, Rome and Frankfurt), including a bunch of Specialty Select upgrades.  If you haven't gone before, I would suggest booking the upgrades for the extra 1000 - 2000 SPG points/night, as the normal rooms are beyond tiny in most of those locations.


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 6, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> About 3 years ago, we did a month for 280K SPG points (staying in Paris, Monaco, Milan, Zurich, Vienna, Venice, Rome and Frankfurt), including a bunch of Specialty Select upgrades.  If you haven't gone before, I would suggest booking the upgrades for the extra 1000 - 2000 SPG points/night, as the normal rooms are beyond tiny in most of those locations.



We used 225K SPs in just 16 days for London, Amsterdam and Paris in Sept'09. 

I agree with using SPs for room upgrades upfront and do not depend on status - the rooms we got were incredible (esp London) - only SPG Gold.
Room videos on YouTube (blujahz).


----------



## YYJMSP (May 6, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> We used 225K SPs in just 16 days for London, Amsterdam and Paris in Sept'09.



To drag this further off-topic   I called up SPG the other day to see about those over-the-water huts in Bora Bora, and they're only 105K/night at the Le Meridien and 140K/night at the St Regis.    Of course, 5th night is still free on points...

Was seriously considering exercising some of the twelve "buy 80K SPG points for $1550" offers (from our recent WDW purchases) we have left that expire at the end of this month.


----------



## djdavid79 (May 6, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Was seriously considering exercising some of the twelve "buy 80K SPG points for $1550" offers (from our recent WDW purchases) we have left that expire at the end of this month.



We just received an update to this offer the other day, with a bonus 4,000 SPG points, for a total of 84,000 if I made the $1,550 purchase. We passed.


----------



## YYJMSP (May 6, 2011)

djdavid79 said:


> We just received an update to this offer the other day, with a bonus 4,000 SPG points, for a total of 84,000 if I made the $1,550 purchase. We passed.



Got the same email a few days ago -- it prompted me to check in with our salesperson, and she looked up that we had 12 of those offers expiring end of this month, and another 6 of those offers expiring in a year.


----------



## sui (May 6, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> We got a 5 nights + 70K SPG points package for $1700 at WMH last year, with an additional 30K SPG points for not returning



Can I convert these SPG to AA miles at 1:1 ratio with 25% bonus? If so, that's the cheapest way to buy AA miles, turns out about 1.4cent/mile.


----------



## YYJMSP (May 6, 2011)

sui said:


> Can I convert these SPG to AA miles at 1:1 ratio with 25% bonus? If so, that's the cheapest way to buy AA miles, turns out about 1.4cent/mile.



American Airlines AAdvantage is on the list of airline frequent flyer programmes you can transfer your SPG points to, the exchange ratio is 1:1, and you would get the 5,000 bonus for every 20,000 points you transferred.


----------



## sui (May 7, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> American Airlines AAdvantage is on the list of airline frequent flyer programmes you can transfer your SPG points to, the exchange ratio is 1:1, and you would get the 5,000 bonus for every 20,000 points you transferred.



Great, so I just attend one of the presentations, pay $1700 for the package, get 70k SPG on spot, and get another 30k for not returning? Can I let them know that I'm not returning on spot, and pocket a total of 100k right away? If I do so, will they block me for future explorer packeage? I'm planning to buy at least one package per year, will that bring any problem? BTW, is this the cheapest way to buy SPG?


----------



## grgs (May 7, 2011)

sui said:


> Great, so I just attend one of the presentations, pay $1700 for the package, get 70k SPG on spot, and get another 30k for not returning? Can I let them know that I'm not returning on spot, and pocket a total of 100k right away?



YYJMSP didn't come back for the second visit and received the additional 30K points *because he bought another unit.*  Unless you're buying a unit, I seriously doubt they would let you out of the return visit and give you the points instead.  The purpose of the Explorer package (from Starwood's perspective) is to get another chance at a sale.



sui said:


> If I do so, will they block me for future explorer packeage? I'm planning to buy at least one package per year, will that bring any problem?



I have no idea if they track and limit Explorer package purchases, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Glorian


----------



## Ken555 (May 7, 2011)

sui said:


> Great, so I just attend one of the presentations, pay $1700 for the package, get 70k SPG on spot, and get another 30k for not returning? Can I let them know that I'm not returning on spot, and pocket a total of 100k right away? If I do so, will they block me for future explorer packeage? I'm planning to buy at least one package per year, will that bring any problem? BTW, is this the cheapest way to buy SPG?



If you do this, expect a hard sell during your time with the sales staff. I would consider this a waste of time, but if you need the points/miles you might find the value in it. I also agree that I doubt you'd get the extra 30k.


----------



## sui (May 7, 2011)

Well, guess that's not a good idea then.


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 7, 2011)

I used a west coast ExpPkg (same day) for EOY WPORV (incl. requal and 'Owner' price) and received 80K SP on top of  110K incentive SPs (and put on my SPG AMEX...)

We get our SPs from putting everything we can on our SPG Amex.

You can certainly find value in SPs - but their value is relative to how many one may have, and of course optimizing their usage (keeping in mind that vacationing cost money).

For us - probably worth buying at no more than about 1.3c/SP based on how many we have accumulated, and our annual vacation days and vacation spend. 
just saying -ymmv (and probably does...)


----------



## YYJMSP (May 7, 2011)

grgs said:


> YYJMSP didn't come back for the second visit and received the additional 30K points *because he bought another unit.*  Unless you're buying a unit, I seriously doubt they would let you out of the return visit and give you the points instead.  The purpose of the Explorer package (from Starwood's perspective) is to get another chance at a sale.



Our deal was that you had to come back for a return presentation to get the 70K, or make a purchase within a year.

The 30K was for not returning -- nothing to do with our subsequent purchase.

However, if you didn't return and didn't make a purchase within a year, you would lose the 70K but would get the 30K.



grgs said:


> I have no idea if they track and limit Explorer package purchases, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.



You're allowed one per calendar year -- we tried to purchase a second, and they wouldn't let us...


----------



## YYJMSP (May 7, 2011)

sui said:


> Great, so I just attend one of the presentations, pay $1700 for the package, get 70k SPG on spot, and get another 30k for not returning? Can I let them know that I'm not returning on spot, and pocket a total of 100k right away? If I do so, will they block me for future explorer packeage? I'm planning to buy at least one package per year, will that bring any problem? BTW, is this the cheapest way to buy SPG?



Doesn't work that way.

70K is for coming back for a return presentation OR for purchasing within a year.  If you don't come back, and don't purchase, you forfeit the 70K.

30K is for not returning -- it's what they valued the return room as.  It doesn't matter if you don't buy; however, it make absolutely no sense to do this, as you'd be paying $1700 for 30K.

You don't get the points on the spot -- you get the 70K after the return presentation or on purchase, and you would get the 30K after the package expires or on purchase without a return visit.


----------



## YYJMSP (May 7, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> I used a west coast ExpPkg (same day) for EOY WPORV (incl. requal and 'Owner' price) and received 80K SP on top of  110K incentive SPs (and put on my SPG AMEX...)



Back in February, we got 70K + 30K for the Explorer package, and another 65K + 15K incentives for our first WDW purchase, for a total of 180K.  They wouldn't let us purchase a second Explorer package, so we only got the 65K + 15K incentives for our second WDW purchase, for a total of another 80K.  If we'd understood the "one per calendar year" limit on the Explorer package, we would have done one of the purchases in Dec, and the other in Feb for an extra 100K.

So, grand total of 260K SPG bonus points for purchasing 2 WDW EOYs.  We did it this way (2 EOYs, same unit/week) because we had 2 units to requalify.

I don't recommend you buy the Explorer packages personally, unless you're planning on buying a developer unit anyways, in which case it's essentially a whack of free bonus SPG points.


----------



## grgs (May 7, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Our deal was that you had to come back for a return presentation to get the 70K, or make a purchase within a year.
> 
> The 30K was for not returning -- nothing to do with our subsequent purchase.
> 
> However, if you didn't return and didn't make a purchase within a year, you would lose the 70K but would get the 30K.



I think I wasn't clear in my original post.  I thought you bought an Explorer package and received 70K points + 5 nights for a return visit.  Since you bought before going back for your 5 nights, I assume they let you convert the unused 5 nights into 30K additional points (and so you received 100K points total)? As they already sold you the unit, I would think they wouldn't care that much if you came back or not.  That's exactly how it worked for us when we bought an Explorer package several years ago. Of course, the terms of Explorer packages may have change since then.

If you opted to not return or buy, they would still give you 30K for the unused nights?  That seems strange to me, as I think their main goal is to goal is to make sure they get a second change to make the sale.

Glorian


----------



## YYJMSP (May 8, 2011)

grgs said:


> I think I wasn't clear in my original post.  I thought you bought an Explorer package and received 70K points + 5 nights for a return visit.  Since you bought before going back for your 5 nights, I assume they let you convert the unused 5 nights into 30K additional points (and so you received 100K points total)?



Sorry, maybe I wasn't quite clear in my explanation.  

We purchased an Explorer West package at WMH during Christmas, giving us 70K + 5 nights within a year.  We had to either return and consume the 5 nights, or purchase a developer unit, to receive the 70K.



grgs said:


> As they already sold you the unit, I would think they wouldn't care that much if you came back or not.  That's exactly how it worked for us when we bought an Explorer package several years ago. Of course, the terms of Explorer packages may have change since then



We hadn't bought the unit at the time of the Explorer package purchase.

We purchased the unit 2 months later (once we got things sorted out with regards to what we needed to complete our journey to 5 Star Elite), and then exercised the Explorer package for the 70K + an additional 30K for not returning.  We did all of this through SVO Corporate.  WMH wasn't involved in anything any more.



grgs said:


> If you opted to not return or buy, they would still give you 30K for the unused nights?  That seems strange to me, as I think their main goal is to goal is to make sure they get a second change to make the sale.



The 30K thing was mentioned to us during our long discussions with the WMH sales people, but was never in writing anywhere in the Explorer package, and we had to rely on their assurances, etc that it would actually work out as they said it would -- we got half-assed confirmations from WMH and SVO Corporate, who said that it was an Explorer West only thing.

Not sure about their logic, but that's how they offered it to us.

The 100K showed up in our SPG account as a single transaction about 2 weeks after we exercised the Explorer package (shows up as "SVO-EXPLORER EARLY CONVERSION").

The purchase incentives of 2x65K each showed up about another 10 days after that, and the remaining 2x15K showed up (after I reminded them a few times) about 3 weeks after that...


----------



## grgs (May 8, 2011)

What you outlined above sounds about right for what happened with our Explorer package, so I think we're on the same page now.  

We also bought one with the same terms I believe (70K + 5 nights).  We then decided to purchase a unit before returning.  They gave the 70K points + additional points in lieu of the 5 nights.  I don't believe they offered this, but I asked for it and was given it.  

Glorian


----------



## vss (May 8, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> About 3 years ago, we did a month for 280K SPG points (staying in Paris, Monaco, Milan, Zurich, Vienna, Venice, Rome and Frankfurt), including a bunch of Specialty Select upgrades.  If you haven't gone before, I would suggest booking the upgrades for the extra 1000 - 2000 SPG points/night, as the normal rooms are beyond tiny in most of those locations.



Some off topic questions: Could you pls share your itinerary, hotels you stayed at etc; did you drive; how many months before the trip did you make the hotel reservations using SPs; can the rooms accommodate a family of four; any other advice?  Thanks a lot.


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 8, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> I don't recommend you buy the Explorer packages personally, unless you're planning on buying a developer unit anyways, in which case it's essentially a whack of free bonus SPG points.



I agree here - the ExpPkg does have value if you are intent on buying from SVO - and that is the rub. Is it worth it to pay such a premium buying from SVO over resale?  In most cases without other intent (5*/PFL w/ requals - for example...) - it is very hard to justify without creative math (fuzzy) to make oneself feel better about it.


----------



## YYJMSP (May 8, 2011)

vss said:


> Some off topic questions: Could you pls share your itinerary, hotels you stayed at etc; did you drive; how many months before the trip did you make the hotel reservations using SPs; can the rooms accommodate a family of four; any other advice?  Thanks a lot.



We are a family of 3, and our daughter was only 5 so she stayed in the same bed with us fairly often.  We flew in to Paris and out of Rome, and took trains in between everywhere.  It was all on points, so the airfare was booked about 11 months in advance, hotels just after that, and train reservations about 6 months in advance.

Here's the itinerary and SPG costs (back in summer 2008, I'm sure it's more now):

Paris - Le Meridien Etoile -- 1 King Club President (Specialty Select upgrade, cost 50K SPG points for 5 days, included breakfast every day with a view of the Eiffel Tower)

Monaco - Le Meridian Beach Plaza -- 1 King Classic (cost 48K SPG points for 5 days)

Milan - Four Points -- this was an unintentional stop, when our train broke down and we had to wait until the next day to continue our trip

Zurich -- ArabellaSheraton Neues Schloss -- 1 King Executive (Specialty Select ugprade, cost 24K SPG points for 2 days)

Vienna -- Le Meridien Vienna -- 1 King Junior Suite (Special Select upgrade, cost 46K SPG points for 5 days) -- we actually got bumped up to a massive suite.

Venice -- Hotel Des Bains Venice Lido Resort -- Deluxe Seaview (Specialty Select upgrade, cost 46K SPG points for 5 days, including breakfast) -- we got bumped here as well to a massive suite

Rome -- Westin Excelsior Rome -- King Junior Suite (Specialty Select upgrade, cost 58K SPG points for 5 days) -- we got bumped up to a multi-room Grand Luxe Suite (it was our wedding anniversary)

Frankfurt -- ArabellaSheraton Am Busing Palais -- King Superior (cost 8K SPG points for 2 days, including breakfast) -- this short stop was to line up with our return flight


----------



## grgs (May 8, 2011)

We're spending 5 nights at the Le Meridien Piccadilly Circus this June in a junior suite with club lounge access.  We're a family of four (2 adults & 2 kids)--any other room type, and we would have had to book 2 rooms.  The junior suite will accommodate four.  I did get an e-mail saying that we will have to pay 50 pounds extra for the fourth person.  At the time we booked, this hotel was a cat 5, but I think it may now be a cat 6.  A standard room would have been 12,000 points; the suite upgrade was only an additional 2,500 points per night which I think is pretty good.  We also got the fifth night free.

Glorian

P.S. I hope we get a room like DavidnRobin did!


----------



## DavidnRobin (May 8, 2011)

We stayed at the Park Lane - 1 metro stop down - the Le Meridan Piccadilly is in the thick of it (great location, but 1000s of tourists right outside).  Be prepared that the London rooms are small, but great idea to use SPs to upgrade (IMO).  If you are facing Piccadilly - expect noise prettty much all the time.  Enjoy.

vss - I took videos of our rooms and surrounds (YouTube - blujahz).  Made reservations about 6 months in advance.  My advice - depending on hotel and how many people - nicely ask to see your room before taking luggage up - and if not up to expecations - politely ask if there are other rooms that you can see.  We moved rooms in both London and Paris. The Paris room they attempted to give us was a smoking room and had 2 small beds... unacceptable.  The London room was very nice but adjacent to the lift (could hear cables in the wall) - and we ended up in a room that had no classification (incredible).


----------



## YYJMSP (May 8, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> My advice - depending on hotel and how many people - nicely ask to see your room before taking luggage up - and if not up to expecations - politely ask if there are other rooms that you can see.



We've made a habit of calling the hotel directly about 2 weeks in advance, speaking to the reservations manager, and trying to prearrange SPG Platinum upgrades.  This usually works...


----------

