# Evaluating Wyndham purchase



## StrayKatt (Jul 11, 2011)

Hi.  I am currently vacationing at a Wyndham resort in Myrtle Beach.  We own enough points to have VIP status.  We attended an owner's meeting yesterday and were given a very convincing sales presentation.  Our salesperson convinced us that if we purchased enough additional points to become VIP Gold then it would basically pay for itself.  He said that we could rent the points out if we didn't want to use them, and that if we rented out 80,000 points we would get at least $2100, which would be enough to cover the payments on the nearly $18,000 purchase price.  He also said that if we became VIP Gold we would be able to get the Wyndham Rewards Visa card, which would give us 6% cash back on everything with no limit.  This part especially sounds too good to be true.  We applied for the credit card and were approved, and most of the points purchase was placed on this card.  We were never given the credit card terms and conditions in writing.  The salesman said that if we used this card for all of our expenses, we would get enough cash back to cover our maintenance fees.

So I have a couple of questions for anyone on the forum who might be able to confirm or deny what we were told.  The credit card details are the most important, because if we can't really get 6% cash back on everything with no limit, then I want to cancel the purchase contract.  We were only given 5 days to do so, and we won't be back from vacation in 5 days.  I will have to find a way to print a letter and then locate a post office in Myrtle Beach to mail it by Friday.  I tried to find details online concerning the credit card, but I can't find anything that even remotely sounds like what we were told.

I would also like to know how easy or difficult it is to rent out your points through Wyndham.  Do you really get at least $2100 for 80,000 points?  Our salesman also told us that we would be able to make reservations through RCI without paying an exchange fee, and trade any leftover points at the end of our use year for restaurant gift certificates.  This last part seems to be false according to my research.

I am not bashing Wyndham, because I am already an owner and have had mostly positive experiences with them in the past.  I just have a feeling that this salesperson may not have been telling us the whole truth.

Thanks to anyone who might be able to share some information.


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## ScubaKat (Jul 11, 2011)

We are currently in Myrtle Beach too!   I have no idea with the credit card deal and I am totally new to the system but getting $2100 for 88,000 points sounds extremely high to me?

On our guest confirmation it says that our room costs the owner 275,000 points..  we paid $700 for the week renting...  it was a last minute vacation rental so it may have been a lot cheaper than what it usually rents for though..


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 11, 2011)

I own a few (ha, ha, ha) Wyndham points. 80,000 points vacation is few and far between. Figure $5 per thousand as a GOOD/HIGH value rental - so that $2300 is totally mythical; reality is $400 or LESS for a rental using that number of points.

Another case of IF the salesman's lips were moving, is how you can tell if they were lying.

Find the POST OFFICE. Most have a copy machine. I would just get some copy paper and several plain envelopes from the front desk. Handwrite the rescind letter. Do it tonight and mail 2 copies tomorrow - regular mail and certified mail, return receipt. DO NOT TRY TO RESCIND AT THE SALES OFFICE (or the hangtag girls at that desk - they ALL get a commission check IF you buy)- it is not the legal way, they will throw so much BS at you, waste your time (vacation and right to cancel times). I have even asked the FRont Desk "Where is the easiest USPS to drive to?".


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## rrlongwell (Jul 11, 2011)

StrayKatt said:


> ... He said that we could rent the points out if we didn't want to use them, and that if we rented out 80,000 points we would get at least $2100, which would be enough to cover the payments on the nearly $18,000 purchase price.  He also said that if we became VIP Gold we would be able to get the Wyndham Rewards Visa card, which would give us 6% cash back on everything with no limit.  This part especially sounds too good to be true.  We applied for the credit card and were approved, and most of the points purchase was placed on this card.  We were never given the credit card terms and conditions in writing.  The salesman said that if we used this card for all of our expenses, we would get enough cash back to cover our maintenance fees ... I am not bashing Wyndham ...



Oh, do not worry about bashing Wyndham.  That appears to be a popular sport.  A number of locations on the East Coast are pushing hard the concept to over buy points and use them for rental.  Most push that you should rent through the sister company's rental program.  I looked hard this option and, like another poster indicated, I am not convinced their numbers are right or doable.  You might or might not get back part of your maintance fees, then you might lose the use of the points to.  As for using the credit card to pay for maintance fees pitch, this is also occuring at a number of locations, I guess that depends on how much you use the credit card.  Be very very careful on relaying on this representation.  I just received notice from my Bank (a major player in the lending business), They have discontinued their rewards program for Debit Card purchases because of the passage of a new federal law that significantly reduces the revenue banks receive from merchants when using the debit card.  This could be expanded to credit card rebates and thoughout the industry.


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## timeos2 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ok no bashing. Just the cold truth. You are being taken on ride for $18,000. Rescind now while you can as doing what you were told is not going to pay you back $18k PLUS the extra fees. You don't need to buy the extra points retail to get the Visa card. Any rebate it offers will still be there if your points are as they are now, you add more by resale or retail. Ask for written guarantee everything will come through as promised - you won't get it that I will guarantee! 

Don't be snookered - rescind while you can. You won't regret it while you  will regret paying $18,000 for points worth $2000 tops at resale. Good thing you asked.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 11, 2011)

OK, you guys convinced me.    Actually I was already feeling very uncomfortable about the whole thing.  There was a point toward the end of the presentation where I asked a question, and the salesman gave me a quick yes/no answer that wasn't really an answer and then left.  I still haven't found out any concrete information about the credit card.  I was thinking about stopping back into the office and asking for a copy of the terms and conditions.  It seems like they should have given it to us when we applied for the card.  But then I'm not sure if I really want to go in there again.  We are going to find a post office tomorrow and get the letter mailed out.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 11, 2011)

By the way, the salesman told us that the ONLY way we could get this member's credit card is to become VIP Gold.  He said that it isn't offered to anyone below Gold level.


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## ronparise (Jul 11, 2011)

I cant speak to the credit card,  but I have rented Wyndham reservations. 88000 points is about enough for a long  weekend, even if you use your discount.

I rent weekends for $500 which should be enough to cover your maintenance fees, but not touch your mortgage

If your mortgage is $3000 a year You will need to put in excess of $50000 a year on that credit card (assuming a 6% cash back)

So if everything he said is true, sure you might get it to pay for itself, but whats the point...It seems like a lot of work and a lot of risk, to break even

Id rescind and if you want more vacation time, buy a contract on ebay


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## DrBopp (Jul 11, 2011)

StrayKatt said:


> By the way, the salesman told us that the ONLY way we could get this member's credit card is to become VIP Gold.  He said that it isn't offered to anyone below Gold level.



I don't know what resort you are at in Myrtle Beach, but look for a Kinko's/Fedex copy center, use the computer or a pencil and paper and write out that rescinsion ASAP. There are several in the MB area. You will be losing thousands of dollars if you don't act quickly. I don't know anything about the credit card side of the issue, but you would be taking a real bath if you kept that contract. Do it TODAY!

FedEx Office Print & Ship Center

Categories: Local Services Printing Services Local Services Shipping Centers Printing Services, Shipping Centers 

258 Hwy 17 N
North Myrtle Beach, SC 29582

(843) 281-8457 

Gordon


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## rrlongwell (Jul 11, 2011)

I believe, even though the credit card using one of the Wyndham family of companies names,  was tied to the purchase of a new times share (a number of locations use this one), it is accutally a lender with a pre-existing agreement with Wyndham.  It is extremely unlikely they will cancel your credit card if you resend.


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## am1 (Jul 11, 2011)

You are not going to get %6 cashback on everything.  Maybe 6% cash back on some categories some of the times.

A few years back I was got %5 cassock for the first 3 months.  Unrelated to a Wyndham purchase but did manage to pay off the recently purchased Wyndham timeshare and prepay a few months of bills.

With VIP gold you could stretch 80k points for a week at a few resorts and rent for more than $400.  But it is not easy work.  

The salesmen has lied to you but its just a matter of how much you think is a lie and what your comfortable with being a lie.


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## Goofyhobbie (Jul 11, 2011)

To the Original Poster (OP):

It is highly unlikely that Wyndham has a Visa Credit Card that they offer only to Gold or Plantinum VIP owners and if they do, it is highly unlikely that the "rewards" card would pay you 6% of whatever you spend for any significant period of time. 

There is a Wyndham Rewards Visa offered by Barclay's Bank and the "Terms and Conditions" of that card are available through the link provided below:

Wyndham Rewards Visa Credit Card Terms and Conditions

As someone above has advised make sure you CANCEL the Credit Card and make sure that the Credit Card company know that you have cancelled the transaction.  Do that separately from sending in your Recission Letter to per the instructions in your contract with Wyndham.

If you have not already sent the Rescission Letter do so tonight if you can find a Post Office that is open so that you can send it certified mail with a return receipt request to prove that it was eventually received.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 12, 2011)

I mailed out my letters this morning, the required letter by Certified Mail as well as copies to Owner Relations and Financial Services.  It feels great to have saved nearly $18,000 this week.    Plus I still get the free seafood buffet at Original Benjamin's that they gave us certificates for.  They can't screw with us in any way, right?  I followed the cancellation instructions precisely, and got the letter postmarked with three days to spare.  I may try to pick up a few extra points on eBay, and not worry about attaining VIP Gold status.  Thanks for everyone's help.


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## timeos2 (Jul 12, 2011)

Great! You did the right thing and if you do need more points a resale is the way to go. Congratulations & enjoy that dinner.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 12, 2011)

Wow, Wyndham corporate would love the name of that lying salesperson, because they absolutely do not want owners renting reservations to other people.  I should know, because that is what our daughter does, for extra cash, and they hate all of us with a purple passion.  Deanna Gabel has been very clear that renting Wyndham reservations is against the rules, the ownership is not to be used for commercial purposes, it's not to be a cottage business., etc.  But that is how it was sold to us. 

We were positively treated like garbage by the salesman at Bali Hai during a recent visit to Shearwater.  This is the very guy who SOLD US our Platinum account, which was a fairly inexpensive conversion of weeks we already owned at Bali Hai and Shearwater.  He was downright rude, and you know why?  Because corporate told him he is never to sell us a single thing again, because we are renting their product.  We just wanted to say hello, but Carlos was condescending and nasty.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 12, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ... Deanna Gabel has been very clear that renting Wyndham reservations is against the rules ...



It may or may not help in your case, however, I understand that Deanna Gabel is no longer with Wyndham Vacation Resorts.  I do not know this first hand.


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## timeos2 (Jul 12, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> It may or may not help in your case, however, I understand that Deanna Gabel is no longer with Wyndham Vacation Resorts.  I do not know this first hand.



That is correct. Unceremoniously removed days after an owners meeting. Getting too "owner friendly" perhaps?


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## rrlongwell (Jul 13, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> That is correct. Unceremoniously removed days after an owners meeting. Getting too "owner friendly" perhaps?



I do not think she was fired for that, but, I believe that is an instint fire offense.  Can not have people running around ruining their hard worked at reputatioin you know.


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## vckempson (Jul 13, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wow, Wyndham corporate would love the name of that lying salesperson, because they absolutely do not want owners renting reservations to other people.  I should know, because that is what our daughter does, for extra cash, and they hate all of us with a purple passion.  Deanna Gabel has been very clear that renting Wyndham reservations is against the rules, the ownership is not to be used for commercial purposes, it's not to be a cottage business., etc.  But that is how it was sold to us.
> .



But so many Wyndham owner rent out their reservations.  Why would they dislike that and where is it in writing that you can't do that?  I've never seen anything about that in the directory or any user agreements before.  I don't rent out so it doesn't effect me, but if they have a right to clamp down on that, and did,  it would definitely impact some here on TUG.


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## learnalot (Jul 13, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wow, Wyndham corporate would love the name of that lying salesperson, because they absolutely do not want owners renting reservations to other people.  I should know, because that is what our daughter does, for extra cash, and they hate all of us with a purple passion.  Deanna Gabel has been very clear that renting Wyndham reservations is against the rules, the ownership is not to be used for commercial purposes, it's not to be a cottage business., etc.  But that is how it was sold to us.




Cindy,
I don't think we have attended a single presentation EVER where the sales staff were not pushing the "rent out your extra points angle."  It's crazy that they would treat you that way.


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## ronparise (Jul 13, 2011)

vckempson said:


> But so many Wyndham owner rent out their reservations.  Why would they dislike that and where is it in writing that you can't do that?  I've never seen anything about that in the directory or any user agreements before.  I don't rent out so it doesn't effect me, but if they have a right to clamp down on that, and did,  it would definitely impact some here on TUG.



In the current directory, page 332 column 2 paragraph 5


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## vckempson (Jul 13, 2011)

ronparise said:


> In the current directory, page 332 column 2 paragraph 5



Ron, it's funny to see you respond with the reference.  What then of your rental plans if it's against Wyndham policy and agreements?  

One could also make a case that occassionally renting a week out, ostensibly because you can't use all your points one year, is not using the program for commercial purposes.  Who's going to make that judgement call?  After all, it doesn't say you can't rent, just that you can't make a business out of it.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 13, 2011)

ronparise said:


> In the current directory, page 332 column 2 paragraph 5



Called Wyndham, people can rent Wyndham points at will.  When I asked for a cite, they call my attention to the following:  This is taken from their Learning Center under the help section.

There are a couple of different ways that CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members can take advantage of the services offered by Extra Holidays.

Rent accommodations for cash
If you would like to rent accommodations for friends and family members at CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Resorts, you can book reservations for cash through Extra Holidays. As a CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Member, you can book at a discounted rate. Visit ExtraHolidays.com or call 1-800-731-4820.

List your accommodations for rent
If you are unable to use your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus reservation, Extra Holidays will list your confirmed accommodations for rent on your behalf.

I saw the Members Directory cite referenced above, I am still looking for additional information on this issue.  At this point, I do not see any penalties associated with the rental of Wyndham Points, unlike RCI weeks program that if you do they can cancel your membership.

The following is an extract from a Seawatch Plantation Deed.  I believe Wyndham Reservations is correct, there is no prohibition to a member renting points to whomever they want that is currently being enforced.

This Conveyance is subject to and by accepting the Deed the Grantee(s) do(es) hereby agree to assume the following: (1) Taxes for the current year and subsequent years (2) Conditions, restrictions , limitations reservations, easements, and other matters of record; (3) Declaration of Horizontal Property Regime; Master Deed Covenant, Restrictions and By-Laws, and any supplements and amendments hereafter filed; (4) Fairshare Vacation Ownership Assignment Agreement and Use Restriction and Fairshare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust Agreement and any amendments thereto and (5) Any liens created by Grantee's failure to pay fees, dues, or assessments.

The following is an extract from the SECOND AMENDED AND RESTATED FAIRSHARE VACATION PLAN USE MANAGEMENT TRUST AGREEMENT

11.01 Directory. Set forth below in summary form are certain of the most important features of the Plan. The rules, regulations, guidelines, policies and procedures related to the allocation of Points to the Trust Properties and the use of Points by Members in connection with the Trust Properties and the Plan are fully described in the Directory. In the event of a conflict between the information described in this Article XI and the information set forth in the Directory, the information set forth in the Directory shall be controlling. Wyndham, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to amend the Directory and the provisions therein from time to time as may be necessary to implement the Plan.

The cited provision in the earlier post states:  The program is for the members own personnal use and enjoyment and not for any commerical purposes.

The members directory also specifically authorizes owners to have guests using guest certifictes.  See pages 279, 288, and 340.  In my reading of this section, Family and Friends are specifically listed.  However, there is no prohibition or limitation on these pages to those two groups.

The glossery of terms defines this as:  Guest Confirmation – a written confirmation that is issued when a CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Member allows a guest to occupy their reserved unit accommodations. Guest Confirmations are required at the time of booking for each unit the member is not occupying.

Please note there is no limitation to just family or friends.


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## kalua (Jul 13, 2011)

*wyndham credit card , and  rescindition*

to the poster who wanted and did rescind,you made a wise choice everything he told you was a lie from renting to the credit card ,I suspect anyone who can get on barclay bank web site can apply,,never the less  your rewards on the card is only $60. for every 10,000 pts.you earn ,and you get one point for every one dollar you spend,they tried the same thing with me a couple years ago ,you can't get the card, you can't rent ,you can't use your points at another wyndham,you can't pic.,they could make me vip,  they could wash my points. all BIG lies,and the directory say's so.i just saw your post and maybe this will make you fell even better.i told them to put it all in writting and the salesman and the manager sign it and i would buy but they refused ,i'm still wondering why.


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## ronparise (Jul 13, 2011)

vckempson said:


> Ron, it's funny to see you respond with the reference.  What then of your rental plans if it's against Wyndham policy and agreements?
> 
> One could also make a case that occassionally renting a week out, ostensibly because you can't use all your points one year, is not using the program for commercial purposes.  Who's going to make that judgement call?  After all, it doesn't say you can't rent, just that you can't make a business out of it.




Since I posted that citation I went back and re read it and have come up with an interpretation that reconciles the two seemingly contradictory policies...ie "you cant use your membership for commercial purpose", and "here is Extra Holidays to help you rent your time"

The  quote from the directory is in the section dealing with the vacation owners association...the group that gets the extra 50 cents or so per 1000 points to run the internal exchange program and make reservations They also say you can withdraw from the association with a simple written request. So its clear to me that membership in the VOA is something completely different that your deeded ownership and membership in an HOA

The distinction I would make is renting points which is not allowed against renting the unit which is allowed.  

Thats my story and Im sticking with it


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## rrlongwell (Jul 13, 2011)

ronparise said:


> ... Thats my story and Im sticking with it



Your theory probably adresses the Fixed Weeks and possably the floating weeks.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 13, 2011)

In reviewing this thread with all of the above quotes, what appears to be emerging is that the Wyndham for profit company that controls Extra Holidays (I believe it a for profit company not owned by the trust) gets a free pass while the owners of the trust (or at least the owners of the trust that Wyndham places in the "Mega Renter" catagory do not.  I do not know what all sanctions are placed on the Mega Renters other than restrictions on future purchases nor am I convinced that the free pass for Extra Holidays is operating in the interest of the members of the trust.  It appears under 60 day reservations, with associated discounts to all levels of ownership is being adversly affected by the Sales Arm emphise on renting to Extra Holidays.  

What appears to be the relevant governing documents words on this issue is as follows:

SECOND AMENDED AND RESTATED
FAIRSHARE VACATION PLAN USE MANAGEMENT TRUST AGREEMENT
THIS SECOND AMENDED AND RESTATED FAIRSHARE VACATION PLAN USE MANAGEMENT TRUST AGREEMENT (this "Trust Agreement") is effective as of the 14th day of March, 2008, by and among Fairshare Vacation Owners Association, an Arkansas nonprofit corporation; Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc., a Delaware corporation, Fairfield Myrtle Beach, Inc., a Delaware corporation, and such other subsidiaries and affiliates of Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. as may from time to time subject Property Interests (or the Use Rights therein) to this Trust Agreement; and such other unrelated third parties as may from time to time desire to subject Property Interests (or the Use Rights therein) to this Trust Agreement, all in accordance with the terms and conditions set forth herein, and amends and restates the “Amended and Restated Trust Agreement” (as hereinafter defined) which, in turn, amended and restated the “Original Trust Agreement” (as hereinafter defined).

WHEREAS, Wyndham is the developer of certain resort communities and Vacation Plans with respect to which Wyndham sells timeshare and other interests; and

WHEREAS, Wyndham desires to establish a trust to permit the Beneficiaries to use and exchange the Use Rights available through the Trust; and

WHEREAS, Persons that (i) subject one or more Property Interest(s) to this Trust Agreement by an assignment to the Trust of the Use Rights attributable to such Property Interest(s), or (ii) purchase one or more Property Interests which have previously been subjected to this Trust Agreement, shall be allocated Points symbolic of the Use Rights and other attributes of their respective Property Interest(s) and shall be permitted to use their symbolic Points as described herein; and ...

It appears the Sales Arm and Extra Holidays have teamed up for the benifit of the Profit Arm of Wyndham where Extra Holidays gets priority treatment in the mega renters classification by not being subject the Members Directory provision cited by Ron.  Extra Holidays is very surely a commerical enterprise as is the Sales Arm (I believe).  The obligation of the trust appears to be an obligation to its members to what is best for them.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 15, 2011)

I am feeling very good about having rescinded my contract.  

How long does it normally take Wyndham to respond by removing the points and credit card charges?  They charged most of the cost of the points to the new credit card, and I already received an E-mail saying that I am at my credit limit.  I don't even know the account number yet.

Today I bid on a few points on eBay and won the auction.  I think it was a good deal...$420 for 84,000 points at Ocean Boulevard, which is where we have the rest of our points and where we go for vacation maybe 2 years out of 3.  All closing costs were paid by the seller, so the only cost was $420.  Does that sound reasonable?  It's a lot less than $18,000 anyway.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 15, 2011)

StrayKatt said:


> I am feeling very good about having rescinded my contract.
> Today I bid on a few points on eBay and won the auction.  I think it was a good deal...$420 for 84,000 points at Ocean Boulevard, which is where we have the rest of our points and where we go for vacation maybe 2 years out of 3.  All closing costs were paid by the seller, so the only cost was $420.  Does that sound reasonable?  It's a lot less than $18,000 anyway.



You show READ more here before buying stuff. Buying into a TS is relative cheap after looking at a developer purchase.

How many points do YOU need? That is your first question after WHERE do I want to vacation and need ARP.

ARP is related to USE YEAR. A bunch of small contracts will have the VCs doing math problems as you are trying to get that Myrtle Beach reservation - anything that delays YOU in booking will cause others to GET your desire reservations over YOU. I know ... I have OCEAN WALK points and IF you know the script where they don't have to ask questions ... just type, you will be a minute or two ahead of several other phone lines.

Relax. There are plenty of resale points out there. Learn. Research. Rent a few vacation to figure out IF you even like the Wyndham level of resorts.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 15, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Relax. There are plenty of resale points out there. Learn. Research. Rent a few vacation to figure out IF you even like the Wyndham level of resorts.



Oh I have been a Wyndham owner for years and years.  I bought my first points when they were still Fairfield, 78,000 points to start with and I enrolled a fixed week in the PIC program.  Those points were deeded in Williamsburg, so a few years ago I bought 154,000 points and transferred my other points to Ocean Boulevard.  Right now all of my Wyndham points are under one contract at Ocean Boulevard, but I also have the PIC week to deal with which complicates matters anyway.  They don't try to make that easy.  I like to vacation with family, and next year we are trying to plan a big vacation with lots of family members, so I felt that we needed a few more points.  So, with that said, hopefully the cost of the points I just bought was reasonable.  I may try to pick up even a few more in MB if I can find something.  There is always the chance that we won't be able to deposit the PIC week with Wyndham in the future.  I have never had a problem making MB reservations through Wyndham, even without using ARP (since you can't use ARP with a PIC week).  It has been impossible to find anything on the beach in the summer through RCI, so I much prefer Wyndham.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 15, 2011)

StrayKatt said:


> Oh I have been a Wyndham owner for years and years.  I bought my first points when they were still Fairfield, 78,000 points to start with and I enrolled a fixed week in the PIC program.  Those points were deeded in Williamsburg, so a few years ago I bought 154,000 points and transferred my other points to Ocean Boulevard.  Right now all of my Wyndham points are under one contract at Ocean Boulevard, but I also have the PIC week to deal with which complicates matters anyway.  They don't try to make that easy.  I like to vacation with family, and next year we are trying to plan a big vacation with lots of family members, so I felt that we needed a few more points.  So, with that said, hopefully the cost of the points I just bought was reasonable.  I may try to pick up even a few more in MB if I can find something.  There is always the chance that we won't be able to deposit the PIC week with Wyndham in the future.  I have never had a problem making MB reservations through Wyndham, even without using ARP (since you can't use ARP with a PIC week).  It has been impossible to find anything on the beach in the summer through RCI, so I much prefer Wyndham.



I recently bought a Towers on The Grove Contract for 84,000 points annual contract.  The list price was 17,600 dollars, a discount of 4,100 dollars was given.  A 15 year lease at the Sands Ocean Club was tossed in for free for week 38 that was then picked for 105,000.  A converted week was given to me that was at Westwinds for 89 dollars that became 154,000 points.  All points were VIP eligable points.  Like you, we are involving our family in  the use of the units.  This was sufficient to bring us to Platinum not including the bonus point and RCI weeks (3) that were received with the purchase.  The deed was a UDI deed and not a ACCESS deed.  Look Damon up and tell him I said Hi and to match it.

I know I am a minority of probably 1 on this site that believes the VIP program is worth the costs of a new purchase if Wyndham makes a decent offer, even though the deeds are currently worthless as a general rule.  I happen to like the morning paper and we use two weekends per month on resorts within drive time.  My family helps use a bunch of points until my wife and I both retire and we travel more.  I based my decision to take the Wyndham timeshares and let my Step Brother liquidate the non-Wyndham holdings because she had told me that Wyndham was a pain but they are better than the others.  Same with RCI.  By the way, check out the points need for Westwinds in January for a week, you will be amazed at the nightly point rate using the discount.  Virtually all of my reservations are made within the VIP discount window at step point discounts.  A whole lot of these get upgrades with the initial reservation so I frequently get a 2 bedroom at the 1 bedroom rate.  Sometimes I get lucky and get a upgrade after the initial booking but not often.

Sometimes the cynic in me (not that I am a cynic) wonders how many of the people that rent to others that post on the site are VIP members.


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## StrayKatt (Jul 15, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I know I am a minority of probably 1 on this site that believes the VIP program is worth the costs of a new purchase if Wyndham makes a decent offer, even though the deeds are currently worthless as a general rule.



I think it's important to remember that not everyone is the same and not everyone has the same priorities and values.  I actually would have gone through with the retail purchase that I had contracted for, 114,000 points with a bonus of 114,000 points and VIP Gold status for just under $18,000.  But the salesman lied to me, and I don't like to be lied to.  The previous two times I purchased points from Wyndham I never felt like they were being dishonest.  I actually had to tell the last salesman that I wanted more points than he was going to sell me.  He didn't really seem to care that much if he made a sale or not.  This last guy was so slick I probably shouldn't have trusted him from the beginning.  He said that he was from the city where I live, and threw out some well-known facts about it.  At this point I honestly believe that he probably looked up our account and then Googled the city to find a few things that he could use.  I think this guy should be fired.  He is making Wyndham look really bad.


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## ausman (Jul 15, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Sometimes the cynic in me (not that I am a cynic) wonders how many of the people that rent to others that post on the site are VIP members.



The assumption would be that if renting Wyndham at any site most are Plat VIP. If not there are rather obvious clues, price and time period being among them.

VIP valuation is rather a personal valuation. On the VIP thing the dollars just do not work, so it is a purchase for other individual reasons. I buy a car within the selected group, for acceleration times, braking and handling, my sister in law basically buys on the quality of the sound system within a group of cars considered. 

Under prior Wyndham rules, becoming a VIP Plat owner, buying a lot of resale points and setting up a rental business made sense and renting of excess points was a sales tool for Wyndham salespeople. Not so much any more.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 15, 2011)

basham said:


> Under prior Wyndham rules, becoming a VIP Plat owner, buying a lot of resale points and setting up a rental business made sense and renting of excess points was a sales tool for Wyndham salespeople. Not so much any more.



What changed within VIP to do that? i must have started looking at Timeshares After the change...i've heard alot about Wyndham taking away VIP benefits, but i'm not sure which benefits have changed


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## rrlongwell (Jul 16, 2011)

I am not aware of any signicant changes to the VIP Program over the years that were negative.  There were program changes over the years.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 16, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I am not aware of any signicant changes to the VIP Program over the years that were negative.  There were program changes over the years.



Significant you bet, to me at least.  Most changed

1) VIP - Free Unlimited Guest Certificates - GONE, and in place one of the most expensive guest certificate fees on the planet.  $99 online and $129 phone.  That charge is 2 to 3 times the going rate for GCs among all other exchange companies.


Other changes that impacted everyone, that reduced the value IMO

2) Transfer of points from one member to another.  This made it easier to add and get rid of point shortages or surpluses.  GONE, why we were cutting into Wyndham rental charge for extra points.

3) Increase of rental rates during express period, basically going up 60% from $5/K to $8/K.  Used this to top off point requirements instead of having to transfer.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 16, 2011)

Sandy Lovell said:


> Significant you bet, to me at least.  Most changed
> 
> 1) VIP - Free Unlimited Guest Certificates - GONE, and in place one of the most expensive guest certificate fees on the planet.  $99 online and $129 phone.  That charge is 2 to 3 times the going rate for GCs among all other exchange companies.



Ahh, this must have changed a long long time ago...the Members Directories from 2009-2010 and 2011-2012 mark it as 15 per million for VIP Platinum...i don't think i considered TSing before 2009


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 16, 2011)

Sandy Lovell said:


> 2) Transfer of points from one member to another.  This made it easier to add and get rid of point shortages or surpluses.  GONE, why we were cutting into Wyndham rental charge for extra points.



This definately makes it more difficult to rent points to other users...But its not a deal breaker...just means you have to rent reservations instead of points...it makes sense from a business stand point...more guest certificates, housekeeping credit, reservation credits used to profit off of



Sandy Lovell said:


> 3) Increase of rental rates during express period, basically going up 60% from $5/K to $8/K.  Used this to top off point requirements instead of having to transfer.



Isn't this a good thing? i see people renting points all over the place for $5/k...if wyndham was also renting for $5, there would be no market for the common owner trying to rent at that rate...


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 16, 2011)

I owned my TS that became a Wyndham since 1995.  So 16 years now.  Things have changed, some for the better (technology), some for the worse (lost benefits).  I wonder how much benefits will keep eroding over the coming years.


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## Sandy VDH (Jul 16, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> This definately makes it more difficult to rent points to other users...But its not a deal breaker...just means you have to rent reservations instead of points...it makes sense from a business stand point...more guest certificates, housekeeping credit, reservation credits used to profit off of
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't this a good thing? i see people renting points all over the place for $5 a point...if wyndham was also renting for $5, there would be no market for the common owner trying to sell...



yes but wyndham only sold points at $5/K during express period, so owners had lots of time to rent theirs out.

way more difficult to rent vs transfer points.  too much work to rent sometimes.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 16, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> I own a few (ha, ha, ha) Wyndham points. 80,000 points vacation is few and far between. Figure $5 per thousand as a GOOD/HIGH value rental - so that $2300 is totally mythical; reality is $400 or LESS for a rental using that number of points ...



If rented though Extra Holidays, it would be the 30 to 40 percent plus a guest pass and presumably any costs associated with transaction fees etc.  Platium members get 15 free guest passes for the 1st 1 million points plus additional ones for having over 1 million points.  That makes the cost per guest pass for a rental zero or very low if the guest pass costs are averaged across the number of rental weeks.  If the rentals are broken into two or three day blocks, it could get a bit pricey.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 16, 2011)

The Sales Pitch is a new and improved one at Old Alexandria as of today on the rental options.  Interesting enough the Pitch for Extra Holidays is gone and is replaced by the one if something is purchased from the sales rep, he then does the rentals for you working with an Attorney who has a overseas contacts.  His pitch indicated Europeans who like to vacation and have it in the same prioity as buy food and paying the morgage.  He said he is getting 800 to a thousand dollars per night and, unlike Extra Holidays, does not charge a fee.


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## JimMIA (Jul 16, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> The Sales Pitch is a new and improved one at Old Alexandria as of today on the rental options.  Interesting enough the Pitch for Extra Holidays is gone and is replaced by the one if something is purchased from the sales rep, he then does the rentals for you working with an Attorney who has a overseas contacts.  His pitch indicated Europeans who like to vacation and have it in the same prioity as buy food and paying the morgage.  He said he is getting 800 to a thousand dollars per night and, unlike Extra Holidays, does not charge a fee.


Anyone who believes nonsense like this deserves whatever they get.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 16, 2011)

JimMIA said:


> Anyone who believes nonsense like this deserves whatever they get.



A lot of people must buy the various Wyndam sales pitches, as I understand it, Wyndham's stock price has soared from their recent financial lows.  This was a particularly impressive pitch.  He even pointed to a big binder to right behind him with a lot of papers in it that he said were his rental customers.


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## ausman (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> This was a particularly impressive pitch.  He even pointed to a big binder to right behind him with a lot of papers in it that he said were his rental customers.



So what, do you think it was anything more than a big binder with lots of papers in it. We have all had a sales pitch.

You are posting a lot of misinformation, while I'm generally helpful to TUG posters, such refuting of misinformation could turn into a full time occupation.

Please research your responses before posting.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

The information I am posting is not misinformation and you do not need to answer it if you do not want to.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> If rented though Extra Holidays, it would be the 30 to 40 percent plus a guest pass and presumably any costs associated with transaction fees etc.  Platium members get 15 free guest passes for the 1st 1 million points plus additional ones for having over 1 million points.  That makes the cost per guest pass for a rental zero or very low if the guest pass costs are averaged across the number of rental weeks.  If the rentals are broken into two or three day blocks, it could get a bit pricey.



Do you mean that the statements made were truthful? Or that that is just the current stream of lies?

elaine


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## ausman (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> The information I am posting is not misinformation ...



Then we need another way to describe it.

How about "factually challenged" or just call it what it is. Untruths and lies.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

basham said:


> Then we need another way to describe it.
> 
> How about "factually challenged" or just call it what it is. Untruths and lies.



It is interesting that TUGS permits personnal attacks on posters that do not carry their version of the facts.  Most cites do not permit this activity.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> Do you mean that the statements made were truthful? Or that that is just the current stream of lies?
> 
> elaine



Please see a more detailed discription I posted on the other thread.


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