# Street/concrete creep (2008 Thread)



## rsm (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Tuggers!

Is anyone here a homeowners insurance adjuster? We just filed a claim for damage caused to our home by street creep- the cul-de-sac- concrete pushed against our driveway and collapsed the expansion joints, then pushed the driveway concrete into the garage floor concrete and foundation footings. So we have cracks on the garage floor, and a damaged brick facade on the garage. I have read that insurance policies never cover this damage because it is not an "act of god". The local city public works dept. came out and said that street creep caused the damage and they will cut out 2 inches of concrete and install a new expansion joint by the street at the end of the driveway and all other damage is our responsibilty to repair. This will be thousands of dollars of repairs. Anyone ever deal with this ?


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## Icarus (Aug 5, 2008)

rsm said:


> I have read that insurance policies never cover this damage because it is not an "act of god".



Heard from where? What does you policy say and what does the insurance company say?

File a claim with your homeowners insurance company if you think it's worth it. I suppose it's possible that they might exclude it, but I wouldn't go by word of mouth on something like that if you have a significant claim.

-David


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## stevedmatt (Aug 5, 2008)

Someone stealing from your home is not an act of God either, but it is covered by your homeowners.

I would actually think this would be the responsibility of the public works department. They caused the damage. It will obviously be difficult for them to claim total responsibility.


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## rsm (Aug 5, 2008)

We did file a claim with our homeowners policy. The adjuster is coming out Thursday, so we will find out what is covered by insurance. The city public works dept. says their only responsibility is putting in a new expansion joint at the end of the driveway by the street. 

The place I read that streep creep is not covered by homeowners insurance was in an article about the streep creep problem in my county and it said " homeowners insurance never covers the damages to the home." So I am hoping that statement will not apply to us.


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2008)

I've never heard of 'Street creep', but can understand what is happening. Sure seems like it oughtta be covered by the city, or county, or whatever entity built/designed the street. 

Which came first, the street, or your house/concrete work? It may matter in whose responsibility the interface between yours and theirs is.

I will avoid comment about what kind of 'creep' their adjuster might be.

Jim Ricks


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## lewdog63304 (Aug 5, 2008)

*Street Creep answers*

[_Edited to delete message. Although informative, the post constituted advertising under TUG's posting rules, which is not permitted._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## isisdave (Aug 6, 2008)

I'll bet it's excluded under "earth movement" ... 

But look harder at holding the city or whoever constructed the street responsible.  Streets don't ordinarily creep, and if yours did, it may have been constructed improperly.  Also, if you notified the city when it first started, and they failed to promptly install a better expansion joint that would prevent further damage, this may expand their liability.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 7, 2008)

isisdave said:


> ... Streets don't ordinarily creep, and if yours did, it may have been constructed improperly.  ...



Not exactly true.  Materials do expand and contract with temperature. OP says the road is a cul-de-sac, so it's certainly possible that if proper expansion joints were not required, the concrete would expand in hotter temps, which would push against a driveway butted against the end of the cul-de-sac.  Effectively that's the same as the roadway creeping.


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## stevedmatt (Aug 7, 2008)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> so it's certainly possible that if proper expansion joints were not required, the concrete would expand in hotter temps



I find this statement funny. "Proper expansion joints were not required" is the reason for this. This is an engineering problem.

Before the road is installed, it was most likely engineered, probably by the city works. Whatever firm or city that this engineer works for, should be held responsible.


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## rsm (Aug 7, 2008)

*adjuster came today*

This situation is getting very complicated ! The city public works dept. sent us a letter after they looked at the problem and said our driveway was constructed properly and they will install a new expansion joint at the end of the driveway by the streetcurb as a part of their street creep  ( street movement) damage prevention program. Too late for prevention we already have damage. The letter says we are responsible for the driveway as it is private property, so no help on the other damage to the garage floor,etc. The adjuster was very nice and sounded like our homeowners policy should do something , but he of course said that is up to the underwriters. There are lots of exclusions in homeowners policies about damage from contraction and expansion of concrete. Apparently the soil here is hydroplastic in some areas and adds to the problem of the street concrete expanding and contracting in cul-de-sacs and at T-intersections. One other municipality near here has a form on their city website to request a new expansion joint if a homeowner starts to see street creep damage. Three people, including the adjuster, have said we need a structural engineer to come out and do a complete evaluation of the problem. I have a call into the head of the public works dept. about the damage already done, I hope we get this figured out soon !


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 9, 2008)

stevedmatt said:


> I find this statement funny. "Proper expansion joints were not required" is the reason for this. This is an engineering problem.
> 
> Before the road is installed, it was most likely engineered, probably by the city works. Whatever firm or city that this engineer works for, should be held responsible.



Improper choice of words on my part - I should have said "installed" instead of "required".

Be that as it may, the relevant standard of practice is the usual and customary practice of engineers providing services in that location and that time.

When you engage a physician to do a hear bypass, the surgeon doesn't guarantee that the operation will succeed.  What you hire the surgeon to do is to provide his best efforts, and you expect that the surgeon will be at least as competent as the average surgeon providing those services.

Same principles apply with similar professional services, be those engineers, accountants, dentists, attorneys, or geologists.


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## jonlay (Nov 17, 2009)

*Street Creep*

RSM, where in St. Charles do you live?  I'm also in St. Charles and I'm having the same issue, wondering if homeowners will cover any of this. . .

Thanks!
Jon


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## Talent312 (Nov 17, 2009)

Just 'cuz the city works dept didn't _want_ to accept responisibility for the damages does not mean that the city is not liable under a negligence theory. If its not covered by insurance, get a lawyer to write a demand letter to the city manager or mayor, who will in turn, refer the matter to their attorneys and the city's liability insurance carrier.


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## Passepartout (Nov 17, 2009)

It'd be interesting to see how this came out, the thread is over a year old and the OP hasn't posted since he started it.

Jim Ricks


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## crack me up (Jul 5, 2010)

*street creep*

I also live in ST Charles County. I never heard of "street creep" Until a co-worker told me that he had it. I noticed that I had something happening with my driveway but I did not know what was going on until then. Now I see it all in every new subdivision that I visit in ST Charles county. They need to figure out how to build a road in a way that does not destroy your garage and driveway.


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