# TS or Points System, or neither?



## ChaeTwo (May 14, 2018)

1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
We have traveled several places and want to continue exploring new paces.

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? at least half time- our boys are 6 and 9 so a little bit of stability would be good, but we want to explore a lot, too.

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Hawaii, Europe, Florida, any cool new places

4) How many people do you usually travel with? Varies! Either just my husband and me, or with our boys, or extended family, or take another couple with the two of us.

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
Travel anytime without our kids, school schedule for when we take the boys.

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Yes 

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Yes. We each get 3 weeks a year, so we'd like to travel at least two of them.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
3-5

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
about 5k easily, don't want to spend more than that

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
about $800 - 1500

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
mostly

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? yes

We bought over the weekend with Hilton, and I like their points system, but have no idea if it really is as easy to navigate as they say. (Obviously we are rescinding now that we are home and doing our homework. My husband is doing that while I research options.) Looking through here I am overwhelmed and have no idea what system, if any, would fit us. I need some advice and expertise! Thoughts?


----------



## Passepartout (May 14, 2018)

Your last paragraph pretty well nails it. For now, I'd advise renting timeshares. Primarily for the variety and to educate yourselves. Hang around TUG for 6 months or so before buying ANYTHING. I think that your budget for annual expenses is a little light for 3-5 star 2 bedrooms (that's the size you will need as the family grows) and 5 stars are just the hotel branded TSs like Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt. 3+ stars are going to be Wyndhams and the like (I wonder what 4- stars are?)

The buy-in cost at resale is very do-able, so that kind of helps the annual nut. Remember, since you want to trade (we call it exchanging) there are additional costs to join exchanges, each exchange costs $200-$300, plus traveling expenses. You have to figure those expenses in. 

So good luck. Stick around. You'll learn a lot.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 14, 2018)

Thank you Jim, that is helpful!


----------



## VacationForever (May 14, 2018)

If you buy a points system timeshare, there is no additional exchange fee when booking within the same system.


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 14, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> If you buy a points system timeshare, there is no additional exchange fee when booking within the same system.


Do you find it is fairly easy to book what you want as long as it is in advance?


----------



## VacationForever (May 14, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> Do you find it is fairly easy to book what you want as long as it is in advance?


It depends where and which system.  I do not know enough about Hilton to answer that question.  I am very familiar with Marriott, Vistana and Worldmark.  Marriott has a point system that is very expensive to get into and very flexible and you can get pretty much what you want if you have enough points right at the 13th month.  Its week system can only use II to trade.  Vistana has many sub-systems. Worldmark is a pure points system.


----------



## GT75 (May 15, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> If you buy a points system timeshare, there is no additional exchange fee when booking within the same system.



For HGVC, there will be a fee ($65-80) to book during the club season.



ChaeTwo said:


> Do you find it is fairly easy to book what you want as long as it is in advance?


HGVC club is actually a very good points based system (IMO).    It is fairly easy to book when the club window opens, as long as you have some flexibility.


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 15, 2018)

GT75 said:


> For HGVC, there will be a fee ($65-80) to book during the club season.
> 
> 
> HGVC club is actually a very good points based system (IMO).    It is fairly easy to book when the club window opens, as long as you have some flexibility.


Is there anywhere I can see how many points it costs to book at different resorts at different times? For instance will a 2 bedroom in Orlando high season be fewer points than a 2 bedroom in Hawaii, or is it the same price but one is just harder to get? I am unsure how many points I would want.


----------



## K2Quick (May 15, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> 5 stars are just the hotel branded TSs like Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt. 3+ stars are going to be Wyndhams and the like (I wonder what 4- stars are?)


I'd classify most Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt timeshares as 4-star resorts with each of them having a few 3- and 5-star resorts in the mix.  5-star properties would be limited to very high-end accomodations like the Four Seasons.


----------



## VacationForever (May 15, 2018)

GT75 said:


> For HGVC, there will be a fee ($65-80) to book during the club season.
> 
> 
> HGVC club is actually a very good points based system (IMO).    It is fairly easy to book when the club window opens, as long as you have some flexibility.



Got it.  It is free to book witihn Marriott, Vistana and Worldmark point systems.


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 15, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Got it.  It is free to book witihn Marriott, Vistana and Worldmark point systems.


Are Marriott, Vistana, and Worldmark part of the same system? How do I find points/properties in that line? I have found Hilton points available to purchase but not sure about anything else.


----------



## geist1223 (May 15, 2018)

Point System provide variety and options. But in almost all of them you have to be able to plan and Book 12 to 13 months in advance. Unless you like to call and ask what is available in 2 months and simply take whatever is available. Deeded Weeks have 2 varieties. Pure Deeded Week. You are at the same Resort for the same week every year, unless you get into trading. Deeded Week but with float Booking. The float can be by Season or 50 to 52 weeks of the year. This type also involves advanced planning.

You have to analysis your vacation habits. We have had several friends fail at Timesharing because they did not understand their vacation habits or did not take the time to learn the system they bought into.

They are not part of the same system. Worldmark Points can be bought from Wyndham the developer, EBAY, on the Market Place on TUG, or at www.worldmarkowners.com/forum.


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 15, 2018)

Thank you so much, this has been very helpful. Is there somewhere that I can see what a certain # of points buys you in each system? If I am looking to purchase 1000 or 5000 points, I don't know what that will get me and I don't then know if it fits what we need. Or if it is a good deal. I have looked but can't find charts like that.


----------



## VacationForever (May 15, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> Are Marriott, Vistana, and Worldmark part of the same system? How do I find points/properties in that line? I have found Hilton points available to purchase but not sure about anything else.



3 separate systems.  Marriott's point system is very expensive and out of your budget range.  Vistana (Westin and Sheraton) point system can be acquired at a very low cost under $1,500 for one of their mandatory resorts - Sheraton Vistana Villages (Key West and Bella phases) to about $12-14K for Westin Kierland Villas (Platinum season) with annual club dues of $145.  Worldmark is the most cost effective, owner and resale friendly system.  It has more than 90 locations, mainly in the West Coast, and booking within the system into the 90+ locations is free.  If you decide to trade outside of their system, then you will utilize II or RCI external exchange companies and pay membership and exchange fees.

You need to learn about each system before deciding which one to buy - Vistana, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, Wyndham, Worldmark... to name a few.  Go back to each sub-forum here on TUG and you can drill down to get more details for each system.


----------



## Passepartout (May 15, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> Thank you so much, this has been very helpful. Is there somewhere that I can see what a certain # of points buys you in each system? If I am looking to purchase 1000 or 5000 points, I don't know what that will get me and I don't then know if it fits what we need. Or if it is a good deal. I have looked but can't find charts like that.


ALL the 'points' systems use some proprietary mystical number system You'd have to have owners of each system volunteer how many points it takes in each system- and it depends on size, season, and in some cases, view. For instance, I find that for us, using RCI points, I get 'acceptable' 1 bedroom units in high or shoulder season, for 35,000 points. 'Better', or bigger units can go for 60,000 points a week. And off season in more modest properties can be had for 7,000 or less- plus RCI's ubiquitous exchange fee.

Jim


----------



## geist1223 (May 15, 2018)

You can go to www.worldmarktheclub.com. At the bottom of the page is Sitemap. When you scroll through the sitemap you will find each Resort listed. Pick a few and look at them. They will show you how many Worldmark Points for what sized Unit for each season. In the older resorts it will take you about 10,000 WM Points for a 2 Bedroom during high season. The newer resorts cost more. Their are New Zealand and Australian Resorts listed. You can only Book these directly if you buy Travelshare Points from the Developer. There is no direct correlation between different Point Systems. With Worldmark it will take you about 10,000 Worldmark Points to Book a 2 bedroom through RCI.


----------



## TravelTime (May 15, 2018)

I would never buy into Worldmark because it is a lower end product. I would recommend sticking with the major brands and picking what you can afford in upfront fees and annual MFs. Perhaps buying a week somewhere inexpensively and trading within II would be your best bet if you are on a tight budget.


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 16, 2018)

Thank you for all the info! It's a bigger world of options than I ever imagined, but it is starting to come together.


----------



## Panina (May 16, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> 1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
> We have traveled several places and want to continue exploring new paces.
> 
> 2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? at least half time- our boys are 6 and 9 so a little bit of stability would be good, but we want to explore a lot, too.
> ...



 Hilton could work for you.  I would suggest a Hilton affiliate getting a desirable fixed week or flex winter week.  In SW Florida they are on Marco Island, Sanibel, Captiva or Fort Myers, all highly desirable areas.

At $5000 they are out there, I got them, but you have to look and be ready to buy when you see them as most desirable weeks cost more. Less desirable travel weeks cost less.

 I would also recommend an affiliate that trades in Interval International as they have a better quality of resorts to trade into.   A pure hgvc week that is not an affiliate can only trade in HGVC or RCI thru HGVC. 

For example I own a week at Eagles Nest, Marco Island.  I can use the week I have, I can become a hgvc member and get points the years I choose and trade within hgvc or through hgvc trade thru RCI, or I can trade directly with RCI or Interval International, or I can rent my week. I personally like the flexibility.


----------



## K2Quick (May 16, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I would never buy into Worldmark because it is a lower end product. I would recommend sticking with the major brands and picking what you can afford in upfront fees and annual MFs. Perhaps buying a week somewhere inexpensively and trading within II would be your best bet if you are on a tight budget.


That was my original thought when I first got into timesharing about ten years ago.  I bought initially bought a cheap Starwood unit which I used exclusively to trade with II and that worked out really well.  However, once my kids started getting to school age, I had to re-evaluate and find an option which would fit with school calendars and our geography.  That led us to Worldmark.  I thought that we'd end up using within the Worldmark system about 1/3 of the time and exchanging out the rest of the time, but that's really been flipped as I've enjoyed the Worldmark resorts a lot more than I thought I would.

Here are the pros of Worldmark from my perspective:

They have the western U.S. and Canada blanketed with units.  No other chain comes close to their coverage in the west.  I especially like the proximity of the units to several national parks.
It is somewhat unique in being a 100% pure points play.  I have equal footing access with other owners to every single WM unit when the booking window opens.
The units have been impeccably clean and furnishings kept up to date in my experience.
You can book anywhere from a day to as long as you'd like without having to worry about set check-in days, home-week booking periods, etc.
If you need more credits to book a reservation or you find yourself with too many you can't use, you can easily rent them in or out to other owners.
WM trades very well within both II and RCI.  As long as a unit isn't within a Marriott or Starwood preference period, WM will be able to trade for the unit.  If there are Marriott/Starwood units in the same area as a Worldmark, I'll reserve the WM unit at the 13-month mark and immediately put in a trade request with II for the Marriott/Starwood units.  If the trade comes through (and I've had really good luck with them coming through), great.  If not, I'm still set for a solid vacation.
There are some cons:

The level of accommodations and resort amenities are generally a noticeable step down from Hilton/Marriott/Starwood.  A Worldmark experience is more similar to a Springhill Suites/Hampton Inn experience than it is to a full service Hilton/Marriott/Westin.
Maintenance fees are capped at 5% annual increases, but they have been going up at exactly 5% each year for the past four years or so.  That's definitely stripping away some of the value proposition.
There's not a lot out east.  There are a few options and it seems like they are actively looking to expand out east, but


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 16, 2018)

Panina said:


> Hilton could work for you.  I would suggest a Hilton affiliate getting a desirable fixed week or flex winter week.  In SW Florida they are on Marco Island, Sanibel, Captiva or Fort Myers, all highly desirable areas.
> 
> At $5000 they are out there, I got them, but you have to look and be ready to buy when you see them as most desirable weeks cost more. Less desirable travel weeks cost less.
> 
> ...


That kind of flexibilty sounds great. I've seen sales of HGVC for 5000 points in my range, enough to get a 1 bedroom for a week in red season or two bedroom in white. Is that a good option or not quite flexible enough you think? How do I look for a Hilton affiliate that isn't HGVC? Is it desirable to get points directly into RCI or II?


----------



## ChaeTwo (May 16, 2018)

K2Quick said:


> That was my original thought when I first got into timesharing about ten years ago.  I bought initially bought a cheap Starwood unit which I used exclusively to trade with II and that worked out really well.  However, once my kids started getting to school age, I had to re-evaluate and find an option which would fit with school calendars and our geography.  That led us to Worldmark.  I thought that we'd end up using within the Worldmark system about 1/3 of the time and exchanging out the rest of the time, but that's really been flipped as I've enjoyed the Worldmark resorts a lot more than I thought I would.
> 
> Here are the pros of Worldmark from my perspective:
> 
> ...


How does one buy Worldmark points? I've had a tough time trying to figure out how to find what's out there to purchase points-wise, except HGVC. Those seem easier to find and more straight-forward.


----------



## K2Quick (May 16, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> How does one buy Worldmark points? I've had a tough time trying to figure out how to find what's out there to purchase points-wise, except HGVC. Those seem easier to find and more straight-forward.


Probably the easiest place to find points is on the WM owners forum:

https://wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=71

There are several brokers, most of whom post sales from time to time in that forum.  If WM was something you were interested in, I'd recommend an account of 10K or 12K points in your situation.  That's good for a 2 bed unit year round in most locations (some will be slightly higher but you can rent in points easily).  WM accounts are easy to value since points are points and there are no home resorts.  Expect to pay about 32 cents per credit for an account with one year's worth of credits banked and add or subtract 7 cents per credit depending on whether the account has more or fewer banked credits.  Pricing on ebay can be even better if you're patient and time it just right.


----------



## Panina (May 17, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> That kind of flexibilty sounds great. I've seen sales of HGVC for 5000 points in my range, enough to get a 1 bedroom for a week in red season or two bedroom in white. Is that a good option or not quite flexible enough you think? How do I look for a Hilton affiliate that isn't HGVC? Is it desirable to get points directly into RCI or II?



I own affiliates at Eagles Nest and Surf Club on Marco Island and both are members of II where they trade nicely.  I get equivalent quality, areas and times.  I would not use RCI directly for these.  Maybe other tug members can respond on what other hgvc affiliates trade in II.  I believe quite a few Sanibel and Captiva places do too.

As far as points, many will tell you get as many points as you can if trading in the hgvc system as points are points.  I look at it differently.  I would suggest you get a place and week you could see yourself using at times.  If trading  within Interval, I find point value not as important. With a high demand area, resort and week I have always received great trades. This would be one week for one week.  Trading directly in hgvc will give you more flexibility.


----------



## stumahlin (May 19, 2018)

RE:  ChaeTwo wrote:   "We bought over the weekend with Hilton, and I like their points system, but have no idea if it really is as easy to navigate as they say. (Obviously we are rescinding now that we are home and doing our homework.)

Congratulations on your Great Escape.

Worry not about points and point systems.  Buy (1) deeded weeks in (2) high demand locations (3) that you like (4) and would be willing to go to frequently (5) with Interval International affiliations so you can make good trades.  And (6) buy from people running ads on T.U.G., Redweek, tstoday, MyResortsNetwork and -- yep, no kidding -- eBay.  The cheaper you buy -- $1000 to, say, $4000 total -- the faster you effectively amortize your purchase price.  No matter your age, there was no way you were going to amortize your Hilton "We're Not a Timeshare" Vacation Club points.


----------



## stumahlin (May 19, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> How does one buy Worldmark points? I've had a tough time trying to figure out how to find what's out there to purchase points-wise, except HGVC. Those seem easier to find and more straight-forward.



Look on eBay, T.U.G., My Resorts Network, tstoday and Redweek.  There are 18-wheelers full of point fairly begging for buyers.  Or takers.


----------



## JohnPaul (May 19, 2018)

stumahlin said:


> Worry not about points and point systems.  Buy (1) deeded weeks in (2) high demand locations (3) that you like (4) and would be willing to go to frequently (5) with Interval International affiliations so you can make good trades.  And (6) buy from people running ads on T.U.G., Redweek, tstoday, MyResortsNetwork and -- yep, no kidding -- eBay.  The cheaper you buy -- $1000 to, say, $4000 total -- the faster you effectively amortize your purchase price.  No matter your age, there was no way you were going to amortize your Hilton "We're Not a Timeshare" Vacation Club points.



Couldn't disagree more that this (deeded weeks) is the only way to go and you should forget points.  Like most things in life you need to match up your ideas and personality to the right product.

Many people think that you have more security in a deeded week system than a true points system - like Worldmark or Vacation Internationale.  These systems are structured in such a way that the real estate is held in a trust or similar instrument owned by the owners which cannot be touched by the manager/developer.  When VI was managed by Sunterra (now part of Diamond) they (Sunterra) went bankrupt.  No impact to the real estate or anyone's ownership.  (BTW - new management came in and all is well.)

In my opinion, points systems offer the maximum in flexibility.  However, they do require planning, especially for things like ski weeks and Hawaii.  (BTW - so do floating deeded weeks.)  FYI - some programs like HGVC are what I'd call a "blended" system.  You own a deeded week but that gives you points in the point system.

With a good points system, you can book one day to as many days as you have points for and book anything from a studio to a penthouse in any of the systems locations (WM has around 90 and VI has around 60).  There is no "Club Fee"  (the way deeded week programs pay for an internal exchange system). 

However, I highly agree with buying for places you want to go without needing exchanges.

Lastly (I could go on much more) just be sure you understand ANY system/property you consider buying.  Among lots of things be aware of the following:

EXACTLY what am I buying (a fixed week, floating week, a deeded week with related points, true points, any difference in point types from the same program)
What are the rules on when you can reserve what
What are the maintenance fees - is there any history of how much the increases run (and of course realize they will increase)
What are the reservation fees (if any)
What are the club fees (if any)
What are the housekeeping fees and how do they work
What are the differences in benefits between Developer and resale purchases (the differences don't typically support the extra cost of Developer purchases but there ARE typically some to many differences)
The different points systems are like foreign currency - a few points in one system (i.e. DVC) could be the same as a zillion points in another system (i.e. Wyndham)

Good luck and great vacations as you become educated on timeshares.


----------



## BoBird1314 (May 22, 2018)

ChaeTwo said:


> How does one buy Worldmark points? I've had a tough time trying to figure out how to find what's out there to purchase points-wise, except HGVC. Those seem easier to find and more straight-forward.


I agree with the one posting to this forum indicating that the TUG Timeshares for Sale points listings is a good place to look. Not nearly as many listings as for HGVC, but usually for points/credits levels that should be about right for you. One problem with the eBay listings for WorldMark is that the majority of listings are for points/credits levels that are either too few (6,000 to 10,000) for a two bedroom unit or are for more points/credits than you are likely to be looking for, meaning that you'd be committing for more annual maintenance fees than you want to commit to. One issue with purchasing too few points/credits and banking them and having enough for usage the following year is that the maintenance fees cost per point goes down the more points you own so if you get 6,000 points/credits, bank them for a year and then use all 12,000 for a two bedroom unit the following year, you will be paying slightly more in maintenance fees for that usage than the person with a 12,000 points/credits ownership. The WorldMark owner's forum is a reasonably good site for resale points at levels that you are likely to be interested in (12,000 to maybe as high as 15,000, depending upon where you are interested in visiting) and gives one a decent idea what their points sell for. The URL for their forum is at: 

https://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=71


----------



## DoorCountyGirl (Jul 2, 2018)

Panina said:


> I own affiliates at Eagles Nest and Surf Club on Marco Island and both are members of II where they trade nicely.  I get equivalent quality, areas and times.  I would not use RCI directly for these.  Maybe other tug members can respond on what other hgvc affiliates trade in II.  I believe quite a few Sanibel and Captiva places do too.
> 
> As far as points, many will tell you get as many points as you can if trading in the hgvc system as points are points.  I look at it differently.  I would suggest you get a place and week you could see yourself using at times.  If trading  within Interval, I find point value not as important. With a high demand area, resort and week I have always received great trades. This would be one week for one week.  Trading directly in hgvc will give you more flexibility.


We found that all of our expectations changed as our children got older. We started with a 2-year old, now she’s a teen and we have three more!!


----------

