# at what price would Marriott exercise ROFR on platinum oceanfront on HHI?



## laurac260 (Aug 2, 2009)

The unit is oceanfront, platinum at Barony Beach Club.  Marriott sells them for $44,900 currently.  In your experience from what you have seen/read, what price would Marriott exercise ROFR?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 2, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> The unit is oceanfront, platinum at Barony Beach Club.  Marriott sells them for $44,900 currently.  In your experience from what you have seen/read, what price would Marriott exercise ROFR?



Marriott might take it if it were free, $0. All kidding aside is, no one really knows. Marriott has not been exercising ROFR much at all lately.


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## laurac260 (Aug 2, 2009)

anyone else care to take a stab at this, or does everyone pretty much concur with dioxide?  I am asking because a sales person told me that Marriott would absolutely exercise ROFR on my resale (trying not to give away too much, since I have no idea who actually comes on this board)


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## timeos2 (Aug 2, 2009)

*Bid low - buy low. Just pay the market rate (and its LOW!)*



laurac260 said:


> anyone else care to take a stab at this, or does everyone pretty much concur with dioxide?  I am asking because a sales person told me that Marriott would absolutely exercise ROFR on my resale (trying not to give away too much, since I have no idea who actually comes on this board)



Any resort with ROFR should be avoided as it is another roadblock in the path of an already extremely shaky product (timeshare - especially RETAIL).  BUT Marriott and a few other DO have ROFR at some resorts so if you want one of those you will be exposed to it.  Since early 2009 Marriott (and most others but very notably Marriott) has ceased to exercise ROFR regardless  of sale price.  In all liklihood they won't go back to using it UNLESS the whole timeshare (not just the general) economy fully recovers with nearly free money and credit floating around again. Unlikely.  This has also once and for all proved that ROFR does nothing to support resale prices as, when it is needed most to do just that - NOW - it is nowhere to be seen.  It was and will always be a way for developers to take even more advantage of buyers even AFTER they already have been sucked into a direct retail purchase and was never meant, as some had claimed, to create a "floor price". It was strictly to denigrate resale sales and make them tougher to complete. Again feed the Developer machine.  

So buy if you must but realize you could get caught later if ROFR raises its ugly had again.  As you would be buying at true market value you are risking far less than those who paid a premium under the old ruse (who got nicked for an artificially boosted price that they can NEVER get out)  but you still are taking an unneeded risk by getting a resort with any ROFR hanging around.  As for now you don't need to worry about ROFR just make your bid for what you feel it is worth and forget trying to "match" the non-existent ROFR as it doesn't play now. Good luck - bid low!


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## ldanna (Aug 2, 2009)

We are not aware Marriott exercised ROFR at any resort at any price this year.


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## laurac260 (Aug 2, 2009)

time, it isn't a bid, it is a resale from a broker, so the price is already set.  

I figured that the Marriott salesperson was just trying to intimidate me by telling me that Marriott would absolutely exercise ROFR, so I told them to put it in writing.  I really have nothing to lose, it's not like there aren't plenty of timeshares out there to buy, even in the same location for the same season, so I was willing to call their bluff, because I assumed they were bluffing.  Apparently they are so desperate for a sale that they will resort to lies and intimidations.


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## Latravel (Aug 2, 2009)

No resale price is ever firm, even asking prices from brokers.  Offer a low price.

If you want to buy resale, why are you talking with Marriott?  They cannot offer the same price as resale.  If you want to buy resale, do it.  Marriott will not negotiate or match the resale price.   They will not put any sales promise in writing until you buy from them.  Otherwise, they will look for the next sale.  

If you want to know the threshold at which Marriott will exercise ROFR, you can check the database on this board.


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## Pit (Aug 2, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> time, it isn't a bid, it is a resale from a broker, so the price is already set.



Price is always negotiable.


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## potchak (Aug 2, 2009)

So let us know what happens!


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## laurac260 (Aug 2, 2009)

Pit said:


> Price is always negotiable.



I guess what I meant was, it wasn't a bid offer, such as e-bay, the price was already determined, and I was quite happy with it, considering other prices I had seen for the exact same place/view/season.

I don't mean to be vague, I am just hesitant to give away all my info till the deal is completely done, because you never know who is on these boards.

Why am I talking to Marriott if I want to go resale?  Well, I did what I thought was best, call, e-mail, etc, many entities till I felt comfy with whom I was talking to, and till I felt like I had enough info that I could make an educated decision about whether to go direct or resale.  The rest is a very, very long story and we are starting to feel like fishies swimming amongst sharks (I have never, ever in my life of either being a salesperson, or being a buyer met such aggressive sales tactics!!!)  

When the ink is dry I will share my story.  It is a doosie!


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## laurac260 (Aug 2, 2009)

Latravel said:


> No resale price is ever firm, even asking prices from brokers.  Offer a low price.
> 
> If you want to buy resale, why are you talking with Marriott?  They cannot offer the same price as resale.  If you want to buy resale, do it.  Marriott will not negotiate or match the resale price.   They will not put any sales promise in writing until you buy from them.  Otherwise, they will look for the next sale.
> 
> If you want to know the threshold at which Marriott will exercise ROFR, you can check the database on this board.



I thought I looked in the right place, apparently I didn't.  What database are you referring to?


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 2, 2009)

Latravel said:


> If you want to know the threshold at which Marriott will exercise ROFR, you can check the database on this board.



Since Marriott has effectively ceased ROFR in the last 9 months or so, there is no database that will show such a threshold.

But Dioxide's ROFR database is at: http://dioxide45.tripod.com/rofr.html


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## Latravel (Aug 3, 2009)

_"there is no database that will show such a threshold."_

Flyerbob, the one we mention on this board is Dioxide's database, the same one you are linking, which, coincidentily, shows the threshold (the lowest acceptable price) the poster is asking about.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 3, 2009)

Latravel said:


> _"there is no database that will show such a threshold."_
> 
> Flyerbob, the one we mention on this board is Dioxide's database, the same one you are linking, which, coincidentily, shows the threshold (the lowest acceptable price) the poster is asking about.



Hmmmm.....    Then please explain how you use the 2 Barony oceanside platinum entries -- both that passed ROFR ($19.2k and $14.5k) -- to determine such a threshold for the Barony oceanfront the OP referenced.

In addition, one of these 2 entries is over a year old, and Marriott has basically stopped exercising ROFR since then.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Hmmmm.....    Then please explain how you use the 2 Barony oceanside platinum entries -- both that passed ROFR ($19.2k and $14.5k) -- to determine such a threshold for the Barony oceanfront the OP referenced.
> 
> In addition, one of these 2 entries is over a year old, and Marriott has basically stopped exercising ROFR since then.



Bobcat, I have two reactions when I look at the database.  #1, maybe we COULD have gotten a lower price, and #2, there's no way of knowing if we could have gotten a lower price, as I have nothing to compare my sale to (platinum OCEANFRONT).  The bottom line is, if we are happy with the price.  When the deal is done, I will share what it is, and the people on this forum can tell me how smart, or naive, we were.   I guess you are only as educated as the info you can garner, and fighting thru the cornfield to find the kernel of truth regarding timeshares has been quite a process.

On another note, is there a website, or thread, dedicated to Ohioans who travel to HHI?  You'd think the state of OH had emptied out when we were there, judging from all the OH plates.  Perhaps OSU/UM weekend at HHI should be a platinum season!:whoopie:


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## ldanna (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> I guess what I meant was, it wasn't a bid offer, such as e-bay, the price was already determined, and I was quite happy with it, considering other prices I had seen for the exact same place/view/season.



If you trust the seller and the closing company, go ahead, Marriott won't stop you. In the event Marriott exercise the ROFR, you have nothing to loose, you will receive your money back.

Dioxide datebase have only one entry for a Barony Beach platinum (oceanside) for $14,500. If you're paying less than that for an oceanfront, go ahead. If not, offer less than than.

If you have information about the seller, you can check online the Beufourt County Register of Deeds at http://rodweb.co.beaufort.sc.us/nvtest/disclaim.asp

Good luck!


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## Whirl (Aug 3, 2009)

ldanna said:


> If you trust the seller and the closing company, go ahead, Marriott won't stop you. In the event Marriott exercise the ROFR, you have nothing to loose, you will receive your money back.
> 
> Dioxide datebase have only one entry for a Barony Beach platinum (oceanside) for $14,500. If you're paying less than that for an oceanfront, go ahead. If not, offer less than than.
> 
> ...



That's right... Just make and offer and don't worry about ROFR...if it is so low and they actually excercise it....you might be the first documented case this year....nothing to lose... really. you didn't have the week before. 

The $14.5 Oceanside sale was mine  and frankly, I am almost sure I could have gone lower....not with regards to  ROFR...Marriott is just not laying out the cash...I thought the seller would counter, the sales persone told me ont he phone she though that they would take it and the sellers took that offer in a matter of hours. But, unique case...there were 4 owners on the deed, so the loss doesn't hurt so badly when it split between 2 couples, I suspect. 

Anyway, make a offer that you thing the SELLERs will accept and that you are comfortbale with and don't worry about ROFR right now. 

Don't say anything else...I might just go find that week myself...I would love ocean front at Barony!


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> On another note, is there a website, or thread, dedicated to Ohioans who travel to HHI?  You'd think the state of OH had emptied out when we were there, judging from all the OH plates.  Perhaps OSU/UM weekend at HHI should be a platinum season!:whoopie:



I'm not aware of a web site like that, but I do know a lot of people within 5 miles of me that own at Grande Ocean platinum.  And you are correct, a lot of OH plates.  They gotta' love us down there...


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## timeos2 (Aug 3, 2009)

*No price is set except by two willing parties*



laurac260 said:


> time, it isn't a bid, it is a resale from a broker, so the price is already set.
> 
> I figured that the Marriott salesperson was just trying to intimidate me by telling me that Marriott would absolutely exercise ROFR, so I told them to put it in writing.  I really have nothing to lose, it's not like there aren't plenty of timeshares out there to buy, even in the same location for the same season, so I was willing to call their bluff, because I assumed they were bluffing.  Apparently they are so desperate for a sale that they will resort to lies and intimidations.



Good to call their bluff & recognize the desperation they are more than willing to use to try to get a sale. 

Also realize that the Broker cannot "set" the price. They are obligated to present any offer and only the seller can decide if they are willing to accept it or not. There is no way the Broker or seller can demand you offer "at least" anything - you are free to make any offer.  Naturally the Broker will want to maximize the price as they want a happy seller and the more the sale price the higher the commission - but you don't have to go along. Offer what you think it's worth and not a penny more. As you say if the seller doesn't accept it there are plenty of others for you to deal with but the seller will find willing buyers are few and a hard line will mean they end up keeping the ownership rather than making a sale. Eventually they will learn or they will simply never sell. Some will raise the price in the mistaken belief that others are "asking too little".  Just because they have an unrealistic view of the value doesn't mean you have to play along. Play hardball. It is a buyers market and if you let the seller dictate you are being ripped off.


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## doodles1 (Aug 3, 2009)

*Bid Low*



Latravel said:


> No resale price is ever firm, even asking prices from brokers.  Offer a low price.
> 
> If you want to buy resale, why are you talking with Marriott?  They cannot offer the same price as resale.  If you want to buy resale, do it.  Marriott will not negotiate or match the resale price.   They will not put any sales promise in writing until you buy from them.  Otherwise, they will look for the next sale.
> 
> If you want to know the threshold at which Marriott will exercise ROFR, you can check the database on this board.



Hi Laura

I agree with Heidi, Bid Low
The resale we just purchased was thru a broker and advertised at $5K
I offered $3,500 and we settled on $3,750. 
This was for an EOY Platinum Ocean Front at the Kauai Beach Club, passed ROFR. Don't be afraid to make an offer that seems below market value. You may find a motivated seller. Also let the broker work for you, our broker secured our deal when we told him that $3,750 was our best offer.

Good luck

Jay


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## vacdoc (Aug 3, 2009)

*Payed Too Much*

Just thought everyone should know that laura paid about 30,000 for her barony beach club. Could do way better buying external with a little patience.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

vacdoc said:


> Just thought everyone should know that laura paid about 30,000 for her barony beach club. Could do way better buying external with a little patience.


a ha!

Just as I expected.  There ARE Marriott trolls on this board!  Is that Tom K.  or Jim S.  If you give me your approval, I will tell everyone what your first and last name is, where you work, and how all the stuff that you guys have tried to do to US to get a deal.

Just say the word, and I will do so.

Ok, peeps, the word is out.  Tell me what you think!


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> a ha!
> 
> Just as I expected.  There ARE Marriott trolls on this board!  Is that Tom K.  or Jim S.  If you give me your approval, I will tell everyone what your first and last name is, where you work, and how all the stuff that you guys have tried to do to US to get a deal.
> 
> ...



Well, it's possible that one of the Marriott salespeople you're dealing with could have followed you to this website with the deliberate purpose of posting information here about your purchase that you have chosen not to share.  (Although, why??)

Or, it's possible that a regular poster here who knows exactly the way to search around for and locate whatever Marriott units are on the market, with which broker, and at what price, has solicited help from a friend (because one person can't have two names registered) for the deliberate purpose of posting that same information here.  (Although, again, why??)

Or, it's possible that you've enlisted the help of friend for the deliberate purpose of stirring up some sort of anti-Marriott salespeople thread.  (Although it doesn't usually take that much effort to get that topic going here!)

Or, none of the above, because they're all too fraught with "ulterior motive" for me.


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## Latravel (Aug 3, 2009)

It doesn't matter what we think at this point since you already bought.  At least you got the week less than what Marriott sells it for.  Personally, if I was buying resale, I would have liked a better price.  If the sale is final, you can't look back. Just enjoy your Marriott timeshare!

Flyerbob - The whole purpose of the database is to document what passes Marriotts ROFR inorder to assist people in establishing bottom line asking prices aka price threshold.  It's not perfect and we don't have tons of info on each property but it's something.  Did you think otherwise?


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Well, it's possible that one of the Marriott salespeople you're dealing with could have followed you to this website with the deliberate purpose of posting information here about your purchase that you have chosen not to share.  (Although, why??)
> 
> Or, it's possible that a regular poster here who knows exactly the way to search around for and locate whatever Marriott units are on the market, with which broker, and at what price, has solicited help from a friend (because one person can't have two names registered) for the deliberate purpose of posting that same information here.  (Although, again, why??)
> 
> Or, it's possible that you've enlisted the help of friend for the deliberate purpose of stirring up some sort of anti-Marriott salespeople thread.  (Although it doesn't usually take that much effort to get that topic going here!)



Susan, don't waste your time on conspiracy theories.  I am who I say I am, and he is who I say he is.  No one else knew of any deals.  There is no record around to speak of.  THIS I KNOW TO BE A FACT.


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## Latravel (Aug 3, 2009)

Wow, this is getting interesting!  Please tell us the story!


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

Latravel said:


> Wow, this is getting interesting!  Please tell us the story!



I will.  I promise I will.  There's a reason why I won't now, and it has nothing to do with any games being played, atleast not on my part.   Some "dust needs to settle."  There's some nasty games being played out there though, I'm hear to say.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 3, 2009)

Latravel said:


> Flyerbob - The whole purpose of the database is to document what passes Marriotts ROFR inorder to assist people in establishing bottom line asking prices aka price threshold.  It's not perfect and we don't have tons of info on each property but it's something.  Did you think otherwise?



Heidi,

I think the ROFR database is interesting and sometimes useful information.  But given what we know now, that being:

*At the current time, Marriott has generally discontinued grabbing any units via ROFR*

using the database to "_assist people in establishing bottom line asking prices aka price threshold_" in meaningless.

Then you combine it with the fact that a sufficient amount of recent data does not exist for Barony (oceanfront/oceanside), that really makes it meaningless (to determine that "threshold")  -- even if Marriott was still exercising ROFR.

So I'll ask it back to you: Do you think otherwise?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Susan, don't waste your time on conspiracy theories.  I am who I say I am, and he is who I say he is.  No one else knew of any deals.  There is no record around to speak of.  THIS I KNOW TO BE A FACT.



Okay, but my point is the same as Latravel's: what does it matter?  As long as you're happy with the way you bought and the price you paid, then nothing we could think should make any difference.  As far as trying to prove a point that Marriott salespeople sometimes act in ways that discredit them and/or the product, well, that's already understood by most everyone on these message boards.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Okay, but my point is the same as Latravel's: what does it matter?  As long as you're happy with the way you bought and the price you paid, then nothing we could think should make any difference.  As far as trying to prove a point that Marriott salespeople sometimes act in ways that discredit them and/or the product, well, that's already understood by most everyone on these message boards.



duly noted, Susan.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

ok, tugdoc, since you aren't going to favor us with your presence again...I'm sure you had a good laugh amongst your colleagues, Jim/tom, whichever one of you unscrupulous sales people that decided to "break the news" as to what we paid.

The difference between you and I is that I was nothing but honest and forthright.  You were not, which is why you lost the sale with me.  

Regarding our $30,000 timesale purchase, we pulled the plug on that one this morning.  Thanks fellow tuggers, it was your input that made me realize that we were being taken by the resale broker as well.  We are very new to this, we do not own a timeshare yet.  Maybe some day we will, if we can ever get to the bottom line to this whole process.  It has not happened yet.   We will continue renting.  

Tom, Jim, I hope there are ALOT of buyers out there.  You just burned this bridge for good.  Good luck to you.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> duly noted, Susan.



Laura, I think I came across with a different attitude than intended.  Back when I was new to these boards and was trying to figure out how to use MRP's for a travel package, I contacted the MRP reps as well as asked questions here.  The information I got was conflicting, but I was too new to the boards to realize that I could have shared a whole lot more information than I had here in order to make the best of the situation we were in and what we were trying to do.  I worried that if I followed the advice here then I would somehow be jeopardizing what I wanted from the reps.  I thought that the regular posters to these boards were becoming irritated with me for all my cloak-and-dagger posts, when really all they were trying to do was place the focus on what was important and what wasn't - namely, what was possible for both me and Marriott to do with MRP travel packages.

Aside from all this, and repeating what I've posted in other threads to you, I think it's great that you're learning everything that's possible prior to making a commitment to buy.  No matter which way a person buys or how much s/he may pay for it, it is possible for any owner to enjoy his/her Marriott timeshare if s/he's ultimately satisfied with his/her purchase.  Good luck.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

SueDonJ said:


> Laura, I think I came across with a different attitude than intended.  Back when I was new to these boards and was trying to figure out how to use MRP's for a travel package, I contacted the MRP reps as well as asked questions here.  The information I got was conflicting, but I was too new to the boards to realize that I could have shared a whole lot more information than I had here in order to make the best of the situation we were in and what we were trying to do.  I worried that if I followed the advice here then I would somehow be jeopardizing what I wanted from the reps.  I thought that the regular posters to these boards were becoming irritated with me for all my cloak-and-dagger posts, when really all they were trying to do was place the focus on what was important and what wasn't - namely, what was possible for both me and Marriott to do with MRP travel packages.
> 
> Aside from all this, and repeating what I've posted in other threads to you, I think it's great that you're learning everything that's possible prior to making a commitment to buy.  No matter which way a person buys or how much s/he may pay for it, it is possible for any owner to enjoy his/her Marriott timeshare is s/he's ultimately satisfied with his/her purchase.  Good luck.



Susan, I think you can sum up my feelings about the whole timeshare market, BEFORE we started this process, in one word, naive.  I knew that salespeople will sometimes "bend the truth" in order to get a sale, or at the very least, make a deal appear to be the "deal of a lifetime", when it is essentially not.  But I have never, ever seen such tactics as I experienced while trying to buy a timeshare.  It was sickening.  I know the sales people have kids to feed, but don't they have to look themselves in the mirror everyday too?

Perhaps I was too "cloak and dagger" with some of my posts.  You should know that the two salespeople I spoke with at Marriott, and the one resale broker, all said that people on Tug were not to be trusted.  One guy called you all "wackjobs", another called you all disgruntled. The resale guy said that alot of the info posted was by salespeople trying to lead people astray, or to create a heightened sense of, whatever, need, panic, you name it.  How do you ever know who you can trust?  It is not a feeling I enjoy, so we decided to back away and let the sharks feed on someone else.  

There's a TON more to the story, but that is where we are.  The rest is just giving the details as to the lengths  salespeople went. In the end, I suppose none of it matters.  It just makes for good copy.  

It is just very frustrating when being honest turns around to bite you in the @$$.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

That frustration is more than understood here, believe me, because it's been experienced by all of us at one point or another.

What I haven't experienced personally, though, is a salesperson who has tried to lie, mislead, connive or in any way negatively impact any of our decisions.  Granted, that could be because we went in armed with a little bit of information about the Marriott product as well as the resale market, we knew exactly what we wanted, and we knew our budget ceiling.  In fact, we continue to contact our salesperson when we have questions about different aspects of our ownership, and she has commented that what I've learned on TUG has been a good reference for us to get the most out of our ownership.

Two caveats, though:

We consider our experience with our Marriott salesperson to be out of the norm because of what's been related on TUG by owners at our resorts as well as other resorts.

One of the things I've read here makes me believe that other people have not been so fortunate with our salesperson - if their description is correct, then she's not above some of the questionable tactics.  I have no way to explain that.


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## ldanna (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Regarding our $30,000 timesale purchase, we pulled the plug on that one this morning.  Thanks fellow tuggers, it was your input that made me realize that we were being taken by the resale broker as well.  We are very new to this, we do not own a timeshare yet.  Maybe some day we will, if we can ever get to the bottom line to this whole process.  It has not happened yet.   We will continue renting.



Laura, it's nice to know you have found Tugbbs and saw this is a serious board.

Platinum Oceanfront Marriott in HHI are rare and they don't come around very often, but considering the curren market, $30k is a lot IMO. If you're interesting in HHI, I have heard hear about a female broker (I can't  remember her name) that evebody here likes a lot, an she is serious (somebody will give you her name).

I hope you will soon have your TS, preferably Marriott. Just keep around and you will learn a lot, and you will find something good for you, maybe even a bargain. 

Try the link on the top of this page (Marketplace), try eBay, and feel free to ask.

BTW, Susan is great, and a top HHI fan.


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## Zac495 (Aug 3, 2009)

So you got out of the 30K timeshare? I hope so. That was weird - that odd post. I don't understand why a salesperson would do such a weird thing (I totally believe you're who you say you are - it's just weird they told such a HIGH price - clearly we'd tell you that was too much).


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

Zac495 said:


> So you got out of the 30K timeshare? I hope so. That was weird - that odd post. I don't understand why a salesperson would do such a weird thing (I totally believe you're who you say you are - it's just weird they told such a HIGH price - clearly we'd tell you that was too much).



the Marriott salesperson took a burn because I backed out of his contract to go with a resale.  If the Marriott salespeople had been honest and forthright, I wouldn't have felt the need to look elsewhere for a different opinion, which lead me to the resale, etc.  The salesperson, or one of his cohorts, took the time out of his commission based day to log onto tug,  find my thread, set up his own tug acct, just to post what my resale price was in an attempt to embarrass me.  Too bad they didn't spend as much effort on their integrity as they did on their unscrupulousness (if that is a word).


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## Latravel (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, this has turned out to be a very interesting thread! 

My dealings with Marriott salespeople were nothing like you described.  No pressure and they acted like they didn't need the sale.  The difference is I purchased my timeshares when times were good so they probably had many sales. Also, i'm sure there are different levels of competency and professionalism among the various salespeople.  There's nothing wrong with renting, especially now with some great deals, until you find the right unit at the right price.

I'm sorry for your experience!  I hope it doesn't sour you on the Marriott product.  Regardless how you purchased (resale or direct), or if some here are disgruntled by something Marriott has done, we do agree it's a quality product.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 3, 2009)

ldanna said:


> If you're interesting in HHI, I have heard hear about a female broker (I can't  remember her name) that evebody here likes a lot, an she is serious (somebody will give you her name).
> 
> I hope you will soon have your TS, preferably Marriott. Just keep around and you will learn a lot, and you will find something good for you, maybe even a bargain.




I think it might be Shelley at transactionrealty.com  -- but please correct me if I'm wrong.  A few links:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60303

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=678030

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86242


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## Dean (Aug 3, 2009)

I know of 2 OF units for HH that have gone through at or under $20K lately.  I also know of one foreclosure that was presold resale at $26.5K by one of the resale brokers on the island.  IMO, it really depends on price and how you'd use it.  For exchanging view type doesn't matter, for usage, renting and selling again later, it matters a lot.  Thus what I'd give depends in part of the resort, view type and what I'm going to use it for.


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## ecwinch (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Susan, don't waste your time on conspiracy theories.  I am who I say I am, and *he is who I say he is*.  No one else knew of any deals.  There is no record around to speak of.  THIS I KNOW TO BE A FACT.



I kinda got a kick out the emphatic way you put this. Plus I gotta stick up for my peeps.

So, without any gory details - is it the fact he disclosed the 30k price the tell-tale sign that "He is who I say he is"? 

Or was there some other "tell" that gave him away?


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## vacdoc (Aug 3, 2009)

*Holy Cow!!*

This beats all I've ever seen. Ha Ha Ha. Laura I have no inside info on what you paid for your timeshare! 30,000 was merely a guess! But I guess, due to your response and future posts, that I was pretty much on the money. I too am looking for a wk on hhi. But, will pay nowhere close to that. Though Marriotts prices are a little up there, my sales girl was very nice when I was there. Oh, and not to start a million more threads, but I have read all of yours. Doesn't seem as though you were very honest with your salesperson at all!
Cloaks and Daggers,
Joe


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## Latravel (Aug 3, 2009)

Ok.... now this is getting weird but oddly fascinating.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2009)

Latravel said:


> Ok.... now this is getting weird but oddly fascinating.



Coincidentally, that's how I think of most every thread on this Marriott board.


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## Zac495 (Aug 3, 2009)

vacdoc said:


> This beats all I've ever seen. Ha Ha Ha. Laura I have no inside info on what you paid for your timeshare! 30,000 was merely a guess! But I guess, due to your response and future posts, that I was pretty much on the money. I too am looking for a wk on hhi. But, will pay nowhere close to that. Though Marriotts prices are a little up there, my sales girl was very nice when I was there. Oh, and not to start a million more threads, but I have read all of yours. Doesn't seem as though you were very honest with your salesperson at all!
> Cloaks and Daggers,
> Joe



 I don't get it.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

Zac495 said:


> Why would you do this? I don't get it. Did you come to TUG for help? Off to a bad start! Or is Laura on the money?




Zac,  "joe" is not as bright as he thinks he is.  Someone logs onto tug for the first time in like EVER, seeks out MY post, magically knows EXACTLY how much I paid, said I paid too much, then does not post again, except to come back and goad me again.   

In answer to your question, Laura is "on the money".  And, there was no cloak and dagger in my representation of myself to any salesperson.   Nice try, Joe.  Remember when you told me the people on Tug were all idiots?  I think the joke's on you.  :hysterical:


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> I kinda got a kick out the emphatic way you put this. Plus I gotta stick up for my peeps.
> 
> So, without any gory details - is it the fact he disclosed the 30k price the tell-tale sign that "He is who I say he is"?
> 
> Or was there some other "tell" that gave him away?



Eric, who are "your peeps"?  Are you a salesperson too?


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## Zac495 (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Zac,  "joe" is not as bright as he thinks he is.  Someone logs onto tug for the first time in like EVER, seeks out MY post, magically knows EXACTLY how much I paid, said I paid too much, then does not post again, except to come back and goad me again.
> 
> In answer to your question, Laura is "on the money".  And, there was no cloak and dagger in my representation of myself to any salesperson.   Nice try, Joe.  Remember when you told me the people on Tug were all idiots?  I think the joke's on you.  :hysterical:



I edited my own post because I worried that I was getting personal and that's against the rules - you quoted me before I edited it. 

Oh -  I'm Ellen.   I am just glad that you didn't spend 30K on a timeshare.  I hope you find the right timeshare at the right price for you.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

Zac495 said:


> I edited my own post because I worried that I was getting personal and that's against the rules - you quoted me before I edited it.
> 
> Oh -  I'm Ellen.   I am just glad that you didn't spend 30K on a timeshare.  I hope you find the right timeshare at the right price for you.



thanks ellen.


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## ownsmany (Aug 3, 2009)

this thread is too weird.  Whoever is playing games should stop.  You are wasting everyone's time.  Tug is for Timeshare owners  / buyers who really want to help each other.  Get a life.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

ownsmany said:


> this thread is too weird.  Whoever is playing games should stop.  You are wasting everyone's time.  Tug is for Timeshare owners  / buyers who really want to help each other.  Get a life.



I'm not sure what is weird about this.  You are witnessing an honest citizen being taken advantage of and ridiculed by an unscrupulous salesperson.  I am just stating facts.  I did not ask for Tom/Jim (pretending to be Joe) to come on this board and harass me.  The reason they knew to come on this board is because I told them I was getting advice from tuggers.  They told me that tuggers were whackjobs, idiots, and yet here they are.  There's alot more to the story.  "Joe", would you care to tell them WHY I am not disclosing everything yet??  What am I waiting for, "Joe"?


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## ecwinch (Aug 3, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Eric, who are "your peeps"?  Are you a salesperson too?



Sue is my peep from the AOC thread....  right Sue?

lets not start seeing the bogeyman behind every post. Bill Marriott was not the second gunman on the grassy knoll.... 

and my question was an honest one. No hidden agenda.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Sue is my peep from the AOC thread....  right Sue?
> 
> lets not start seeing the bogeyman behind every post. Bill Marriott was not the second gunman on the grassy knoll....
> 
> and my question was an honest one. No hidden agenda.



gotcha.  sorry.


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> I kinda got a kick out the emphatic way you put this. Plus I gotta stick up for my peeps.
> 
> So, without any gory details - is it the fact he disclosed the 30k price the tell-tale sign that "He is who I say he is"?
> 
> Or was there some other "tell" that gave him away?



ok Eric, to reply... it was the fact that he disclosed the price.  No one else knew about this.


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## David10225 (Aug 3, 2009)

I am at Barony right now and there seems to be a ton of Marriott salespeople running around with their "welcome" gifts.  We haven't gotten a call yet and I'm frankly glad.  Honestly seems more then last year.

No jellyfish stings so far this year for me, but a group of teens did see one floating near me...I guess I just attract them.

I'll be posting a review soon..


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## KathyPet (Aug 3, 2009)

Where is Dave when you really need him?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2009)

KathyPet said:


> Where is Dave when you really need him?



He is off gallivanting who knows where....


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## laurac260 (Aug 3, 2009)

*to moderator*

Moderator, please feel free to close this thread.  And remind VACDOC (Joe, or whomever he is pretending to be) that tug is not a vehicle for salespeople to come on and harrass other tuggers.  I came here to get informed.  

thanks to everyone on this site who helped me to do so.


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## davidvel (Aug 4, 2009)

deleted . . .


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## Latravel (Aug 4, 2009)

Laura, why would Marriott salespeople come on this board just to harrass you?  I really don't think they care about one possible sale to the point they do these weird things you are describing.


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## laurac260 (Aug 4, 2009)

Latravel said:


> Laura, why would Marriott salespeople come on this board just to harrass you?  I really don't think they care about one possible sale to the point they do these weird things you are describing.



because he is young, and very childish.  The calls to my house have stopped, at the same time these threads started.  Our interaction is not done with the Marriott, we are still waiting on a few things from them.  I guess Tom chose another method of communicating.  Again, it is a long story.  Tom, I guess you decided NOT to send the letter about ROFR, but instead chose this method?  I told you Jim was bluffing.  Quite a sales tactic, do you guys always treat customers this way???  

Tuggers, I won't reply on this board again.  I am quite frankly exhausted by it.


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## wsrobinson (Aug 4, 2009)

Laura,

If you still have an interest there are several platinum weeks available for SurfWatch, Grande Ocean and Barony listed on Redweek.  The best listing prices appear to be a plat OF at GO for 23.9K.  There is also a plat OS week at BB for 23.9K.  SW (being newer) appears to be higher.  These are all ASKING prices, so you never know????  Good luck!!


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## Dean (Aug 4, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Zac,  "joe" is not as bright as he thinks he is.  Someone logs onto tug for the first time in like EVER, seeks out MY post, magically knows EXACTLY how much I paid, said I paid too much, then does not post again, except to come back and goad me again.
> 
> In answer to your question, Laura is "on the money".  And, there was no cloak and dagger in my representation of myself to any salesperson.   Nice try, Joe.  Remember when you told me the people on Tug were all idiots?  I think the joke's on you.  :hysterical:


The moderators have access to his ISP and should be able to trace it back to a location fairly easily.  From what I gather, you're implied that you've been harassed at home by phone and threatened in some way as to manipulation of the ROFR process.  This has not been my experience with Marriott but is par for the course for some companies.  You should keep detailed documentation and let Marriott Corporate know with a copy to the sales manager there.  If it conts, you could also get the authorities involved if needed.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 4, 2009)

wsrobinson said:


> Laura,
> 
> If you still have an interest there are several platinum weeks available for SurfWatch, Grande Ocean and Barony listed on Redweek.  The best listing prices appear to be a plat OF at GO for 23.9K.  There is also a plat OS week at BB for 23.9K.  SW (being newer) appears to be higher.  These are all ASKING prices, so you never know????  Good luck!!




Are you sure that the Grande Ocean for $23.9k is summer/platinum?  How do you tell?  It seems to me that ads on Redweek are notorious for being tricky (i.e. leaving out key information).  Thanks


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## Dean (Aug 4, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Are you sure that the GO fo $23.9k is summer/platinum?  How do you tell?  It seems to me that ads on Redweek are notorious for being tricky (i.e. leaving out key information).  Thanks


It is, this is another broker on HHI who intended to bid on the foreclosure I mentioned above but got outbid.  I believe he had it presold at $19K but did not disclose it was a foreclosure until an agreement and price was reached.  I assume this is an old listing he left up to generate other interest but it could be a new listing, I don't know for sure.


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## wsrobinson (Aug 4, 2009)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Are you sure that the Grande Ocean for $23.9k is summer/platinum?  How do you tell?  It seems to me that ads on Redweek are notorious for being tricky (i.e. leaving out key information).  Thanks



Postitive it's $23.9K.  Not as "tricky" when the seller posts "*Platinum Oceanfront! Start with 2009!*" in the details/contact area of the ad.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 4, 2009)

wsrobinson said:


> Postitive it's $23.9K.  Not as "tricky" when the seller posts "*Platinum Oceanfront! Start with 2009!*" in the details/contact area of the ad.



So now I see....  One has to be a paying member of Redweek to see these details on the ad.  (I am not a member....)

Go figure...  I knew that you had to pay to make contact with a seller, but didn't realize that you cannot even see the entire ad.

Yeah Redweek...  NOT!


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## icydog (Aug 4, 2009)

So what happens here. A young Marriott sales rep with nothing to do, no sales prospects in sight, gets bored and decides to come on Tug and incite mayhem. I believe Laura because she didn't start this fight. She came on here and asked a legitimate question, how much should a OF Platinum Barony cost? She should however just tell us what happened. We can all use the details, if for no other reason than to arm ourselves against unfair sales tactics. I, by the way, had this same thing happen to me, therefore I believe her.


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## laurac260 (Aug 4, 2009)

icydog said:


> So what happens here. A young Marriott sales rep with nothing to do, no sales prospects in sight, gets bored and decides to come on Tug and incite mayhem. I believe Laura because she didn't start this fight. She came on here and asked a legitimate question, how much should a OF Platinum Barony cost? She should however just tell us what happened. We can all use the details, if for no other reason than to arm ourselves against unfair sales tactics. I, by the way, had this same thing happen to me, therefore I believe her.



icy, just waiting on my earnest deposit from the Marriott.


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## KathyPet (Aug 4, 2009)

If, in fact, this was Laura's sales person posting this needs to be reported to the highest level of management at MVCI and this sales person needs to be fired immediately.


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## Steve (Aug 5, 2009)

There have been other Marriott sales people who have behaved very poorly here on TUG...including changing their screen names after Marriott told them not to post here any more, harassing TUG members who disagreed with them here on the BBS, harassing them via PM and email, etc.  This, unfortunately, is not new.

As a Marriott shareholder, Marriott Rewards member, frequent Marriott guest, and former MVCI owner, I'd like to think that Marriott sales people would be above this type of behavior.  Sadly, some of them are not.

Steve


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## LisaH (Aug 5, 2009)

KathyPet said:


> If, in fact, this was Laura's sales person posting this needs to be reported to the highest level of management at MVCI and this sales person needs to be fired immediately.



Agreed! I'm a loyal Marriott owner (bought directly from Marriott 7 years ago) but I can't imagine what vacdoc is trying to achieve by posting the price Laura agreed to pay... one thing is for sure, he breached the trust and confidentiality Laura had with Marriott. This needs to be investigated and dealt with by Marriott.


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## Latravel (Aug 5, 2009)

Reporting this incident to upper sales management in Marriott was the advice I gave Laura.  If it were me, I would be making a big stink about this harassment.  This behavior is so strange and inappropriate, I had a hard time believing a sales professional would act this way.  If it's true, this must be reported to his/her senior management.


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## laurac260 (Aug 6, 2009)

*ok, got my earnest dep back*

Now here's the story... (first of all, please remember, we are VERY new to this whole process, so it has all been learn as you go)  anyway... 


I started doing some research online, and determined you could buy from Marriott, or from a private owner.  So I started calling people.  Sales people at Marriott, private owners, resale brokers, just trying to get details for our family to make an informed decision.   

During our conversations with Marriott sales people, one sales person said ( I cannot remember for the life of me what his name was) that "this is a good ole' boy's network, and I would always be flagged an external member" .   But it went on from there.  Another salesperson we spoke to , Jim kept telling me that if we bought from a resale, we wouldn't be in the"program". "The Program.  The program."  He threw that term around many times, but I never got to what "the program" was.  When I tried to ask, he said, "if you had taken the time to go to the sales presentation..."  I wasn't told that my stay was contingent upon going to the presentation.   He was a very pushy, very slick sales person.  That to me is very off-putting, and I told him as much.  As someone who was once in hotel sales, I would never have treated a client that way, no matter how desperate I was to make the sale. I would never in a million years buy from him, and I don't care what he was selling.   I hung up with him and went to my resale contact.  


My resale contact had a platinum oceanside for $23,900.  No marriott rewards, but he seemed ok, very reassuring  so we said, yes, send us the contract.


Within a day of this, I got a call from salesboy Tom.  Tom was the very first person I had contacted.  I thought it was amusing he mentioned, "I guess we've been playing phone tag."  When I had called him on a Monday, and it wasn't until Thursday that he ever called back once. but I let it slide.  I liked Tom.  He seemed honest and forthright.  I asked him if they had had any reacquires, he said no, we rarely get them, but I will keep you in mind.  He did say though, that he would check from his owner's pool and see if there were anyone who wanted to sell.  I said, "you mean a resale?"  He said, "yes."  I said, "well, is there a difference between buying resale vs buying direct?"  He said "No, with the exception of the Marriott rewards points, there is no difference."    He said he would keep an eye out for reacquires.  I didn't expect to hear back from him.  


But amazingly, one "just popped up."  He called me back a few hours later to tell me a "once in a lifetime opportunity" had just come up.  OK, I'll bite.  "A platinum oceanside for $27,900, with all the bells and whistles, "the program", the marriott rewards points, you will have a person at marriott vacation club always there to work with you etc etc etc."  OK.  This felt good.  He seemed honest, and forthright, someone I could work with.  Someone I could sign with.    "ok, let's do it" I said.   Except oops, wait a minute, I'll be right back.  "oops ma'am, I am so, so, so sorry.  I quoted you the wrong price.  I am so sorry.  It is actually at 15% discount, not a 20% discount."  

But, ok, we swallowed the extra couple thousand for the "piece of mind" as Tom put it.  And said yes.  Send us the contract (note, we have not signed ANYTHING with anyone yet).  


So he did.  I called our resale person to explain why we decided to go with Marriott.   We got the contract, signed on the dotted line, sent in our earnest deposit, and were happy clams.  Or so we thought.


The next day we received an e-mail from our resale contact.  He threw in some sour grapes, mentioned that we had went back on our original agreement (we had not signed anything), BUT, he was able to lower the price to $22,900 for the oceanside,     OR an oceanfront for $29,900.  That is $265 more than what we were going to get an oceanside for from the Marriott.   

So I called Tom and told him this, $30,000 for platinum oceanfront.    I asked him if they had any reacquires for Oceanfront.  No, he said.  I told him we are having a hard time not taking this.  He agreed. Interesting though, his tone changed.  He started mentioning "the program", "internal vs external owners", he even said that he had spoken to an external owner who felt like a "second class citizen at the Barony."  I reminded him of our first conversation, that he had said there was no distinction, and he said, "well, that wasn't part of my original "presentation"."  There you go.  

We felt we were not being dealt with very honestly.  So, we decided to rescind with Marriott, and we told Tom as much.  This did not sit well with either of us.  We called our resale contact back, and told him we wanted the oceanfront.  He said he will send us the contract on Monday.  Is this all a done deal now?  NO!

 Friday night around 7:30, while I am making a late dinner for my family, I get a call from Jim.  I must tell you, he is really the LAST person I want to talk to, but I listen.  "Mrs. C, this is Jim .  First of all, I want to say congratulations on your purchase with Tom."  Thanks, I say.  "Tom is telling me you have a resale person who is breathing hot and heavy down your neck."  "You know", I say, "All I want is a week at the Barony for my family.  This whole process is getting ridiculous."  "Did Tom tell you the story about how we got that reacquire?"  I was very abrupt with him and told him I didn't have time for another one of his (Jim's) stories, frankly, I need to get dinner on the table (Jim likes to start his presentation with "let me tell you a story." ) I don't want stories, I want facts.  And honesty.  

 So, he decided to try a different tactic.  He said to me, "well Mrs. C, you should know that at that price (oceanfront at $29,900) Marriott will absolutely exercise their first right of refusal and buy that property back, and you will be left with nothing."    I said "You know what Jim?  everyone wants my word in writing.  So I have to ask for the same.  If Marriott absolutely is going to exercise their ROFR, then I need it in writing.  I can't operate with woulda's, shoulda's and coulda's.  I need it in writing.  If you send me such letter, then of course I will buy with Marriott, because I don't want to lose my purchase."  He told me that was a different department, and they weren't open until Monday.  I said fine, you can send it on Monday.  That was essentially the end of the conversation.

 Sunday night, again around dinner time, Tom calls me.  First he pretends he knew nothing about my conversation with Jim.  I told him, I know you called Jim and had him call me."  He said, "No, I didn't call Jim."  "Really?"  I say.  He said, "no, he was sitting here right next to me and I asked him to call you, so I didn't call him.  Jim and I work closely together."   ah, semantics.   I said, "Did Jim tell you what he told me?"  "Yes, he said he reminded you about the ROFR."  I said, "No, he TOLD me that Marriott would absolutely exercise right of first refusal at this price.  I told Jim to put it in writing."   It was not a pleasant conversation.  I was not friendly with him as I had been in the past.  I explained to him that having Jim call me to attempt to be his "closer" did nothing more than end any chance of me ever buying from him.  I told him I thought Jim was a jerk.



We hung up the phone, and that was that.  Until of course, vacdoc reared his ugly head on this very thread the next morning to disclose to everyone how much we were going to pay the resaler.  We backed out of that deal too, and believe me when I tell you, that is an ENTIRELY different set of deceit.  

Well, that is it in a nutshell.


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## london (Aug 6, 2009)

*Other Similar Stories*

Thank you for sharing your details.

With Marriott selling thousands of timeshare weeks each year, I bet there are many other stories similar to yours.

Developer sales can be a high pressure business, and sometimes the facts are distorted to potential buyers.


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## Dean (Aug 6, 2009)

Sometimes the sales staff will keep the info for a client or potential client and try to help them sell something they now own so they can buy something else retail.  I know of many who have done that though I'm not sure I see that as appropriate for a reputable company.  

Your course sounds typical for a subset of Marriott sales staff, esp when presented with the situations that you and they found themselves in.  I mentioned the usual set of lies earlier, things like can't talk to II Marriott desk, can't get II internal trade preference, can't get a Vacation Advisor, etc.   The only true ones so far are the reward points and to a degree, that you can't do an equity upgrade or formal resale through Marriott for a unit bought outside (there have been exceptions).  I'd currently put the "can't use the new internal trading system" into the lies category.  While it may end up being true (though I doubt it) currently it's just a hoax for certain sales staff to flash around.  I doubt there has ever been a time when Marriott would have used the ROFR for a HH OF unit at $30K or OS at over $23K, that part I find particularly amusing.

IMO, one has to be able to separate out the sales side from the usage side to keep your lunch down in timesharing.  While aggravating and distasteful, these issues are pretty small potatoes compared to the antics of some sales staff at other places.  My daughter and son in law have the perfect (for them, not me though) line for timeshare presentations.  It is "why should I buy when I can get it for free from my dad/FIL".  There is no rebuttal to free.

I have to say though that over half the timeshare presentations I've been to were fun, informative and cordial.  The ones that weren't were usually not too bad but I have had a handful of horror stories.  While some were better than others, I can't think of a single Marriott sales tour that was bad.  My favorite memory of a similar situation was at a Toyota dealership in the late 80's when I was in the Military.  They were especially pushy and took my car to see look at it to see what they'd allow on trade in and refused to give it back until I leaned over the desk and told the salesperson that I was going to punch him in the nose if I didn't get it back right away.  I likely shouldn't have said it and I'm glad I didn't have to carry through because I had every intention of doing so.  Had it been the age of cells phones I would have called the police and tell them I was being held hostage.  They funny thing is they didn't have a single 4 Runner in stock which was what I was looking at and kept trying to show me pickup's and tell me how this and that represented the set up of the 4 runner.


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## LisaH (Aug 6, 2009)

Laura,

Thanks for sharing. Now I kind of understand what vacdoc was trying to do here...
I'm glad that you backed out of all three deals. In this economy, you should find a week that fits your family's needs and budget in no time... Believe me there are decent sales people out there. I dealt with one Marriott sales rep (he is in management now) and I won't hesitate to buy from him again if possible. Also, Shelley (someone mentioned in this thread) is also honest and would be easy to deal with. Please be patient.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 8, 2009)

Latravel said:


> Flyerbob - The whole purpose of the database is to document what passes Marriotts ROFR inorder to assist people in establishing bottom line asking prices aka price threshold.  It's not perfect and we don't have tons of info on each property but it's something.  Did you think otherwise?



This isn't necessarily why I created the database. It was more or less created to give people a place to record their ROFR experience and for people to look at. What they do with it is of their own accord. It is always recommended not to base your price on what Marriott is exercising ROFR at for other units like the one you are looking at. There is much more involved in why Marriott exercises ROFR than just price. Current inventory, market conditions and other factors may outweigh actual price.


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