# 1st owner update wow



## hiserman79 (Dec 30, 2016)

Only owned for about 6 months now (resale ty tugg). Currently on my 2nd week vacation at wyndham  Smokey mountains. 1st week was at Bonnet creek. We had the extra time and for entertainment we did our 1st owners update. 

Wow I really had no clue how pushy, deceptive and then upset these guys can be. I got paired with whom I'm assume is the top dog he ran the presentation, he seemed to basically run the entire show around the office. He laid eyes on us as soon as we came in, put us with xxxx and mid convo before breakfast with nothing being said yet about ownership he intervenes and takes over. Maybe I looked extra gullible or tough who knows. Any way I was never rude and only countered him when I knew I could prove him wrong. 

I'm new and still learning so he did have some advantages. Here's the highlights according to him my points are basically worthless as I have appx 308k a year between 3 combined contacts. I'm also never going to get to go anywhere nice and I'm waisting my money on valueless maintenance fees. I explained I am able to squeeze usually 3 full weeks a year because I am open to location and my kids school schedule let's use travel  non peak. He also didn't like when I booked reservations I front of him at places he said with only 10mo booking I'd never get in. He simply couldn't accept I'm happy with spending less than 600 on my 3 contracts and happy with my 1700 a year fees getting me the condos I want. 

The best part tugg he has only barely heard of that forum and it's full of idiots who really so nothing but hurt future owners. Apparently you guys set people like me up for failure as I can never experience wyndam as it was meant to be experienced. 

The good news for 12k he could magically turn all my worthless points into the best of the best. Vip level (gold I think is what he said) I could get 6 weeks or more a year. I could get the wyndham rewards cc that would more than pay for the 12k and all my maintenance fees blah blah blah. I told him put it plain English I get at least 6 weeks a year at any resort gold level benefits and a wyndham rewards card will pay for it all I'm in. Obviously he couldn't do that.

I do have one question maybe yall can answer, he kept referring to a points chart in the back of the resort guide which to me was the rci exchange rate. He was saying that chart is what retail owners pay for any resort in all of wyndham network no matter the location. The individual charts on each resorts page is for people like me who listen to people online and get screwed. Anyone know exactly what this clown was trying to twist? I know cancel re book and various other benefits save points but is there a magic cheaper chart for retail buyers? 

He was obviously upset and as he was seeing me out ask me why I wasn't staying at Smokey mountain lodge (waterpark). Before I could answer he said oh that's right you listened to those online and can never book the good places. I went back to wyndham printed my confirmation for July 4th week at great Smokey lodge and returned handing it to him no words exchanged. Thanks tugg you "idiots" are my kind of people and over the years I hope to earn the title of idiot from Wyndham sales staff.


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## bnoble (Dec 30, 2016)

hiserman79 said:


> He was saying that chart is what retail owners pay for any resort in all of wyndham network no matter the location. ... Anyone know exactly what this clown was trying to twist?



You can use RCI to exchange into any deposited Wyndham units at a rate that is fixed by size, season, and geographic area. Sometimes, this doesn't help, because the RCI chart is higher than just booking internally. Other times, it can be a little bit helpful, but the RCI exchange fee can make it a wash. For example, you can exchange into Prime Bonnet Creek weeks for 165K rather than the 224K it would cost to book internally. But, you also have to pay an extra $230 to RCI, so that reduces the savings by a bit. Anyone can do this--you do not need to be a retail owner. But, as a resale, non-PlusPartners owner you can only do it with full weeks, (owners who have enrolled in PlusPartners can book partial weeks via RCI Points), and only with inventory that is deposited to RCI. Wyndham deposits about 7-8 months prior to use, and that means owners have had 2-3 months to book prime inventory first, so not much that is high-demand makes it to RCI.

Finally a tip for going forward: anything you say to the sales person only gives them another thing to argue with you about (or another thing they can find that is "wrong" with your ownership that can only be fixed by buying new points). The less you say the better.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 30, 2016)

> He was obviously upset and as he was seeing me out ask me why I wasn't staying at Smokey mountain lodge (waterpark). Before I could answer he said oh that's right you listened to those online and can never book the good places. I went back to wyndham printed my confirmation for July 4th week at great Smokey lodge and returned handing it to him no words exchanged. Thanks tugg you "idiots" are my kind of people and over the years I hope to earn the title of idiot from Wyndham sales staff.



Hahahahaha, I would have loved to see the look on that guy's face. I too am grateful for all the "idiots" I have learned from here on Tug, not just in the beginning when I joined, but I learned something today that helped me get rid of a timeshare I no longer want. I love Tug! I, too, have sat through those presentations with Wyndham, who seem to be among the most high pressure. You have to wonder what they are thinking. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a product from someone that is treating them like they are stupid or ignorant? Makes no sense.

But no, there is no secret chart for retail purchases with lower point values. There used to be a workaround/loophole for VIP levels that involved cancelling and rebooking once in the discounted point timeframe (I am not VIP, so not sure how it works exactly), but the rumor is that Wyndham is trying to stop VIPs from being able to do that very soon. The fact is, the points are the points, and there is very little that a resale purchaser cannot do with their points (lack of Cancel/rebook and the lack of Club Pass are the only two that come to mind). Enjoy your resale!


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## bnoble (Dec 30, 2016)

alexadeparis said:


> Why would anyone in their right mind buy a product from someone that is treating them like they are stupid or ignorant? Makes no sense.


Yet, somehow, they are very successful. What's more, when you ask around the pool, other owners with direct purchases seem to be pretty happy with it.


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## Jan M. (Dec 30, 2016)

hiserman79 said:


> Only owned for about 6 months now (resale ty tugg). Currently on my 2nd week vacation at wyndham  Smokey mountains. 1st week was at Bonnet creek. We had the extra time and for entertainment we did our 1st owners update. Wow I really had no clue how pushy, deceptive and then upset these guys can be. I got paired with whom I'm assume is the top dog he ran the presentation, he seemed to basically run the entire show around the office. He laid eyes on us as soon as we came in, put us with xxxx and mid convo before breakfast with nothing being said yet about ownership he intervenes and takes over. Maybe I looked extra gullible or tough who knows. Any way I was never rude and only countered him when I knew I could prove him wrong. I'm new and still learning so he did have some advantages. Here's the highlights according to him my points are basically worthless as I have appx 308k a year between 3 combined contacts. I'm also never going to get to go anywhere nice and I'm waisting my money on valueless maintenance fees. I explained I am able to squeeze usually 3 full weeks a year because I am open to location and my kids school schedule let's use travel  non peak. He also didn't like when I booked reservations I front of him at places he said with only 10mo booking I'd never get in. He simply couldn't accept I'm happy with spending less than 600 on my 3 contracts and happy with my 1700 a year fees getting me the condos I want. The best part tugg he has only barely heard of that forum and it's full of idiots who really so nothing but hurt future owners. Apparently you guys set people like me up for failure as I can never experience wyndam as it was meant to be experienced. The good news for 12k he could magically turn all my worthless points into the best of the best. Vip level (gold I think is what he said) I could get 6 weeks or more a year. I could get the wyndham rewards cc that would more than pay for the 12k and all my maintenance fees blah blah blah. I told him put it plain English I get at least 6 weeks a year at any resort gold level benefits and a wyndham rewards card will pay for it all I'm in. Obviously he couldn't do that.
> I do have one question maybe yall can answer, he kept referring to a points chart in the back of the resort guide which to me was the rci exchange rate. He was saying that chart is what retail owners pay for any resort in all of wyndham network no matter the location. The individual charts on each resorts page is for people like me who listen to people online and get screwed. Anyone know exactly what this clown was trying to twist? I know cancel re book and various other benefits save points but is there a magic cheaper chart for retail buyers? He was obviously upset and as he was seeing me out ask me why I wasn't staying at Smokey mountain lodge (waterpark). Before I could answer he said oh that's right you listened to those online and can never book the good places. I went back to wyndham printed my confirmation for July 4th week at great Smokey lodge and returned handing it to him no words exchanged. Thanks tugg you "idiots" are my kind of people and over the years I hope to earn the title of idiot from Wyndham sales staff.




So if I'm understanding this correctly for $12k this guy would sell you enough points to add to your existing approximately 308,000 points making you gold level VIP which is 700,000 points minimum? So around 400,000 points for $12k? More likely enough points to reach silver VIP which is 500,000 points I believe. Or maybe he was offering 200,000 points with 200,000 bonus points to give you gold level for a year or two? They must be really hurting if they are selling contracts of even 200k that cheap! But the big red flag to me is that he is telling you he can make you any VIP level with those resale contracts because that isn't true to the best of my knowledge. Years ago if you were buying a new developer contract they could take back your resale contracts and roll them over into the new contract or contracts thereby making all those points now developer points and get you to the different VIP levels. But about 8-10 years ago I think it was, Wyndam put a stop to that and any sales person caught doing it would be fired. Maybe someone else on TUG has more up to date information or knowledge about this.

Some of us have developer bought points and some of those same owners wish they hadn't sent so much since they didn't know about buying resale and others are very happy with their VIP ownerships. I don't know about the other owners who bought developer points but if any sales person ever offered us 400,000 points or even 200,000 points with 200,000 bonus points for $12k we would have jumped on it.


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## puppymommo (Dec 30, 2016)

I love it when they insist you won't be able to get "all the good resorts" with my measly resale points. One guy tried to tell me that while I was staying at the Canterbury in San Francisco. He tried to tell me I wouldn't be able to stay there with resale points when I actually was staying there on resale points!


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## Joe33426 (Dec 30, 2016)

What is the saying?  "When a timeshare salesperson lips are moving ...."


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 30, 2016)

When staying at a resort, unless they tell you, you will never know if the people staying next door paid resale or retail or rented from an owner. In other words, at the resort, points are points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 30, 2016)

It would help me comprehend your post, if you put paragraphs every 3-7 sentences.  (Former English teacher here.)

I haven't been to an owner's update since we were treated rudely by our salesperson (the very salesperson who sold us on the conversion of our PAHIO weeks).  I will never go again.  It was uncomfortable and unnecessary.


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## DeniseM (Dec 30, 2016)

added paragraph breaks


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## Joe33426 (Dec 31, 2016)

Cheryl20772 said:


> When staying at a resort, unless they tell you, you will never know if the people staying next door paid resale or retail or rented from an owner. In other words, at the resort, points are points.



We meet this nice older couple (who appeared to be quite affluent just looking at them) in the Presidential Reserve lounge at Bonnet Creek in Tower 6.  After minor chit-chat about different resorts, the wife said something along the lines of ... "isn't this lounge nice and how marvelous it is to be a presidential reserve VIP".  All I could do is agree.  Didn't have the heart to say that all our point are resale.


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 31, 2016)

hiserman79 said:


> I could get the wyndham rewards cc that would more than pay for the 12k and all my maintenance fees blah blah blah.


Yes, it's blah blah. Anyone with decent credit can get the Barclay Wyndham Rewards credit card, but, please, don't expect it to enable paying all your fees. Here's a good review of Wyndham Rewards and the credit card. http://milestomemories.boardingarea.com/wyndham-rewards-visa-signature-review/


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## hapstersmom (Dec 31, 2016)

I cannot imagine going to one of these for "fun." Ever. The only way I have ever been to these, at any company, is getting paid as a mystery shopper.

The easiest to deal with was Aulani, where the guy did a basic tour, told me it sells itself take it or leave it, and let me go inside a half hour. That paid like $50 and was easy and pleasant; I was dying to see Aulani rooms anyway!

The worst was Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk, where a woman who called herself *:The Legend: *spent 3 hours telling us how great she was, the resort was, and trying to get us to spend $60K for 308K EOY points. When we said, "No," she turned us over to a boss. He spent another half hour badgering us before finally allowing we could leave. They kept us waiting another 45 minutes to get the promised $100 Visa cards, and then made us spend 15 more minutes telling them "why we were not going to buy." It paid $125 cash, three nights at the resort, and $100 visa card per person per couple. It was awful and tortuous. I would never ever ever do it again, even for pay. THANK GOD the whole thing was on digital audio recorder, not that it changed the Wyndham process at all moving forward.  I ended up buying the 308K EOY points 10 days later, but using Ebay - paying less than $900 all in. The times I have traded (I've never been back to that resort, it is just convenient for us to own in HI since we live here...) they keep badgering my husband to attend owner updates...I'm like, "Have fun! No way I am going." He ends up standing them up...just what Wyndham reps deserve.


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## raptor78 (Dec 31, 2016)

Jan M. said:


> So if I'm understanding this correctly for $12k this guy would sell you enough points to add to your existing approximately 308,000 points making you gold level VIP which is 700,000 points minimum? So around 400,000 points for $12k? More likely enough points to reach silver VIP which is 500,000 points I believe. Or maybe he was offering 200,000 points with 200,000 bonus points to give you gold level for a year or two? They must be really hurting if they are selling contracts of even 200k that cheap! But the big red flag to me is that he is telling you he can make you any VIP level with those resale contracts because that isn't true to the best of my knowledge. Years ago if you were buying a new developer contract they could take back your resale contracts and roll them over into the new contract or contracts thereby making all those points now developer points and get you to the different VIP levels. But about 8-10 years ago I think it was, Wyndam put a stop to that and any sales person caught doing it would be fired. Maybe someone else on TUG has more up to date information or knowledge about this.
> 
> Some of us have developer bought points and some of those same owners wish they hadn't sent so much since they didn't know about buying resale and others are very happy with their VIP ownerships. I don't know about the other owners who bought developer points but if any sales person ever offered us 400,000 points or even 200,000 points with 200,000 bonus points for $12k we would have jumped on it.



I sit through these from time to time - once in a while for the perk - but more importantly to further my own education - if I can argue successfully with these guys, then I know I've improved my overall knowledge...

You asked about the $12k VIP - It's a smoke and mirror tactic - they only sell you the minimum add-on and then they give you PIC week's, on a limited time basis - a few years - to make up the difference...  So the reality is they "create" the VIP scenario artificially and in a couple years you are back to where you were, only having spent an extra $12k...  Interesting side note - at least in Vegas - the PIC weeks usually weren't Wyndham owned inventory - they were from another timeshare firm, with weeks that just happened to qualify with Wyndham - so suspect a little side selling by the agents occurring as well...  Regardless, they aren't going to provide true VIP for $12k (at least I have never seen it)... I am VIP Gold - the BEST offer I have ever been given was to top me up to Platinum for about $9k - I am only about 250k from Plat - so math was $9k for 250k... Turned it down - Plat would be a nice perk, but I get enough benefit from Gold with a mix of resale in there...


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## dgalati (Jan 2, 2017)

puppymommo said:


> I love it when they insist you won't be able to get "all the good resorts" with my measly resale points. One guy tried to tell me that while I was staying at the Canterbury in San Francisco. He tried to tell me I wouldn't be able to stay there with resale points when I actually was staying there on resale points!


I had some clown at Star Island tell me the same thing. I wouldn't be able to stay at Bonnet Creek with resale points. I Laughed at him, when he said I wanted to put my head on the nice pillows in the Wyndham  resorts but didn't want to  pay for it. I  told him I paid $300 for my Wyndham Grand Desert deed and it was the sellers asking price. I explained to him Wyndhams Ovation program and how the developer pays owners $0 to take back deeds. How could he fault me for saving 25k off his asking price and paying $300 more then they pay to take back a deed. He insisted my points were not the same as developer bought points. I explained the only perk I was interested in was vip but I just would not pay to have it when I can buy 1.5 million points resale for about $3000. Most sales reps get very rude and abrasive when you attend a wow to learn more and how to use points better. I always remind them this was a update not a sales presentation.


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## am1 (Jan 2, 2017)

Joe33426 said:


> We meet this nice older couple (who appeared to be quite affluent just looking at them) in the Presidential Reserve lounge at Bonnet Creek in Tower 6.  After minor chit-chat about different resorts, the wife said something along the lines of ... "isn't this lounge nice and how marvelous it is to be a presidential reserve VIP".  All I could do is agree.  Didn't have the heart to say that all our point are resale.




How were you able to get in the lounge?


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## frankf3 (Jan 3, 2017)

am1 said:


> How were you able to get in the lounge?



I'm just a lowly regular non-VIP points owner.  My wife and I stayed at BC earlier this year and were assigned a united in Building 6.  We didn't have any problem getting into the lounge.  I have to admit that while "nice", and having a good view of the Disney fireworks from the balcony, the lounge wasn't anything that great.


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## Joe33426 (Jan 3, 2017)

am1 said:


> How were you able to get in the lounge?



I was able to get a card from the front desk staff.  I said that we were staying in tower 6 and that my card wasn't working to get into the lounge.  They said that the lounge was for Presidential Reserve owners.  I forget exactly what I said, but was able to convince them to give us access.


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## Richelle (Jan 5, 2017)

raptor78 said:


> I sit through these from time to time - once in a while for the perk - but more importantly to further my own education - if I can argue successfully with these guys, then I know I've improved my overall knowledge...
> 
> You asked about the $12k VIP - It's a smoke and mirror tactic - they only sell you the minimum add-on and then they give you PIC week's, on a limited time basis - a few years - to make up the difference...  So the reality is they "create" the VIP scenario artificially and in a couple years you are back to where you were, only having spent an extra $12k...  Interesting side note - at least in Vegas - the PIC weeks usually weren't Wyndham owned inventory - they were from another timeshare firm, with weeks that just happened to qualify with Wyndham - so suspect a little side selling by the agents occurring as well...  Regardless, they aren't going to provide true VIP for $12k (at least I have never seen it)... I am VIP Gold - the BEST offer I have ever been given was to top me up to Platinum for about $9k - I am only about 250k from Plat - so math was $9k for 250k... Turned it down - Plat would be a nice perk, but I get enough benefit from Gold with a mix of resale in there...



Depending on what those 250k points were for, I would have considered spending $9k on them.  That's $36 per 1k points.  That's the lowest I have heard.  I think before that, the lowest I have hear was $84 per 1k.  Of course, I am not a VIP, but 250k points would get me there.


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## bendadin (Jan 7, 2017)

I had the sales people at WBC tell me that if you bought resale that you could only use your points at that resort.  We came home and bought 210K EOY for $610 closed.


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## Jan M. (Jan 7, 2017)

bendadin said:


> I had the sales people at WBC tell me that if you bought resale that you could only use your points at that resort.  We came home and bought 210K EOY for $610 closed.




We had our absolute worst experience ever with an update at Bonnet Creek about 3 years ago and have avoided updates since.

We were supposed to be given lunch but were dragged out before the food was served and when we asked about it were told there wasn't any food which was the first of many lies. We used to go to a lot of "updates" and what the sales manager told us was the worst and biggest assortment of lies we had *ever* been told in an update or an actual sales presentation. She really got to us when she put her hand in the air and swore on her children's lives that what she was telling us was true. My husband is an easy going guy but clammed up because he was appalled and furious over that. So the woman turned her focus on me, trying to sway me into convincing him. By the time we were past the 90 minutes my husband decided to step in because he knew I had a killer headache from needing to eat and the stress of trying to politely deal with her. He told her that we were done, that we had heard enough of her lies and wouldn't buy from her under any circumstances. He never raised his voice but she did and said some nasty things to him because she actually thought she was close to hooking me. I'm sitting there with this look on my face which she interprets to mean that I'm upset with his behavior and tells him so. At this point I figure he is doing a great job of dealing with her and leave to use the restroom and take some aspirin.

Now here is the funny part. My husband isn't the confrontational type; hence the look on my face that she misinterpreted. My husband has cause to know that when I get a bad headache my normally kind and forgiving disposition sometimes suffers. It takes an awful lot to push me over the edge but when that happens I'm deadly with my words and go straight for the jugular. Unlike my husband I would have raised my voice and I have a voice that carries. She had absolutely no clue that my husband had just saved her from me.

Up until then our most memorable experience with an update or sales presentation was in Las Vegas at Grand Desert. It wasn't that it was bad just so horribly awkward. Our sales person was a very nice younger Hispanic woman who spoke very rapidly and in very heavily accented English. And as it went on the less we seemed to understand her, the faster she talked. Neither one of us had ever heard anyone talk that fast for that length of time in our entire lives! When she left us for a few minutes like they do towards the end my husband asked me to give him a quick recap of what she'd said before she got back. He needed hearing aids at a much younger age than most people and finally got them before he was even 60. But this was before he got them so he figured that it was just him and that I was catching what she was saying especially since I have a pretty good ear for accents. Not at all! In fact I was pretty sure my eyes had glazed over. We had both been sitting there nodding our heads once in awhile, feeling like complete idiots. When the sales manager/closer came over to give us the final pitch, he asked like they always do if she took good care of us, explained everything and answered all our questions. We said yes. Neither one of us had the heart to tell him the truth and worried it might cause her to lose her job. It wasn't like it caused her to lose the sale as we wouldn't have bought at that time no matter who got us. On our way out I told my husband that we told such a big whopper that we were lucky our pants didn't catch fire right on the spot.


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## nicemann (Jan 7, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> We had our absolute worst experience ever with an update at Bonnet Creek about 3 years ago and have avoided updates since.
> 
> We were supposed to be given lunch but were dragged out before the food was served and when we asked about it were told there wasn't any food which was the first of many lies. We used to go to a lot of "updates" and what the sales manager told us was the worst and biggest assortment of lies we had *ever* been told in an update or an actual sales presentation. She really got to us when she put her hand in the air and swore on her children's lives that what she was telling us was true. My husband is an easy going guy but clammed up because he was appalled and furious over that. So the woman turned her focus on me, trying to sway me into convincing him. By the time we were past the 90 minutes my husband decided to step in because he knew I had a killer headache from needing to eat and the stress of trying to politely deal with her. He told her that we were done, that we had heard enough of her lies and wouldn't buy from her under any circumstances. He never raised his voice but she did and said some nasty things to him because she actually thought she was close to hooking me. I'm sitting there with this look on my face which she interprets to mean that I'm upset with his behavior and tells him so. At this point I figure he is doing a great job of dealing with her and leave to use the restroom and take some aspirin.



Checking in this morning at a WorldMark location.  Was thinking about going to the sales pitch just because I have never done one with them before.  Your post is a great reminder of the headache they can be.  I think I will just stay away.  Thanks.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 7, 2017)

nicemann said:


> <snip>  Was thinking about going to the sales pitch just because I have never done one with them before.  Your post is a great reminder of the headache they can be.  I think I will just stay away.  Thanks.



Smart move. You are on vacation ... going to get a $50-100 gift card for 3+ hours of your vacation time? Take a nap or a bath or watch a DVD .... anything would be better use of your limited vacation time.


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## Richelle (Jan 9, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Smart move. You are on vacation ... going to get a $50-100 gift card for 3+ hours of your vacation time? Take a nap or a bath or watch a DVD .... anything would be better use of your limited vacation time.



For some reason, my mom signs us up for these things before I even get a chance to say no.  That's why I bought a Tug shirt.


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## nicemann (Jan 9, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Smart move. You are on vacation ... going to get a $50-100 gift card for 3+ hours of your vacation time? Take a nap or a bath or watch a DVD .... anything would be better use of your limited vacation time.



Walked in to the front desk with just myself and my 4 year old.  Did not even get sent to a second desk for parking pass.  Maybe that's the secret.  Show up as only one adult with a small child.  Not even a mention asking me of my ownership status or anything.  I am sure they could tell it was booked via RCI in their computer.


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## clotheshorse (Jan 15, 2017)

hiserman79 said:


> Only owned for about 6 months now (resale ty tugg). Currently on my 2nd week vacation at wyndham  Smokey mountains. 1st week was at Bonnet creek. We had the extra time and for entertainment we did our 1st owners update.
> 
> Wow I really had no clue how pushy, deceptive and then upset these guys can be. I got paired with whom I'm assume is the top dog he ran the presentation, he seemed to basically run the entire show around the office. He laid eyes on us as soon as we came in, put us with xxxx and mid convo before breakfast with nothing being said yet about ownership he intervenes and takes over. Maybe I looked extra gullible or tough who knows. Any way I was never rude and only countered him when I knew I could prove him wrong.
> 
> ...



I would have loved to know what he was thinking when you provided your 4th of July confirmation.  Maybe he will be looking for a different sales position in a different industry, but he may see more people who do not know about Tugg and resale values.


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