# Immigration question



## chellej (Oct 14, 2009)

ds is dating a girl who parents brought her here from mexico when she was 2.  Needless to say she is here illegally.

She thinks that if she marries a US citizen (DS)  that she will be able to get her citizenship.  

From what I have been able to gather on the web - it is no longer that simple.  She would have to show that she entered the US legally.

She just turned 18 and we have been trying to get her to go get her passport and apply for a student visa.

Not trying to start a debate - but does any one have any idea what the process is if any?????


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## isisdave (Oct 14, 2009)

You need an immigration lawyer, not just the Wonderful TUG Advice Machine, But I am pretty sure that any visa -- either non-immigrant student, K-1 for fiancee, or immigrant visa for spouse, will have to be arranged for OUTSIDE the US, unless the fiancee is in the country legally somehow.  They don't let you say "oops, I'm here illegally, just give me the right papers."

There may be some disadvantage to applying for a student visa first.  Ask the lawyer.

And I know you didn't ask, but in this situation you need to ask if the intent of the noncitizen is truly love and marriage, or a green card.  The immigrant spouse should realize that a marriage would have to exist for two years for a permanent green card to be issued.

Good luck with this.  My brother-in-law got it all worked out via his lawyer, but it does take time and attention to detail, so it's definitely not a DIY job.


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm not an attorney, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I have a student going through this right now.  An immigration attorney told her she had to establish residency in Mexico for 6 mos., before she could do anything, and then all applications had to be applied for in Mexico, and she had to stay there until they were approved and she could enter the country legally.


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## pjrose (Oct 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> . . . .  and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night . . . .



Holiday Inn ????


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## chellej (Oct 15, 2009)

Yes  I agree they need to speak with an immigration attorney.  My interpretation is the same - she has to leave in order to get legal status and that won't happen simply because she has no where to go.  They are HS sweethearts so the intent is real - they are just too young IMHO to even think about this.  DS is tormented because he really cares for her but isn't ready to make the committment. 

It is really hard on these kids who know nothing else and really have no options


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

pjrose said:


> Holiday Inn ????



Reference to a Holiday Inn commercial!


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## Passepartout (Oct 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> An immigration attorney told her she had to establish residency in Mexico for 6 mos., before she could do anything, and then all applications had to be applied for in Mexico, and she had to stay there until they were approved and she could enter the country legally.



I believe this is correct. I have an acquaintance, a citizen, who is married to an undocumented alien. She had to go back to her family's home in Mexico and re-establish residency there and apply for a residency visa back to USA. She'd also been a resident here for a number of years.

Jim Ricks


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## DonM (Oct 15, 2009)

She just turned 18, (so I guess your son is about the same age), and she thinks that if she marries a citizen she will become one easily--BUT he apparently isn't ready to marry as evidenced by this statement:



chellej said:


> ...DS is tormented because he really cares for her but isn't ready to make the committment.



Therefore you're just trying to educate her that the process is not that easy?? If and when your son is ready to get married, she should not be surprised that citizenship is not going to come automatically??




> ...It is really hard on these kids who know nothing else and really have no options



Don't really know what you're saying here.


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## krissydee (Oct 15, 2009)

this probably isn't even possible 

the US citizen becomes the petitioner or sponsor for their wife, the sponsor must be able to prove they can financially support the wife, that means the sponsor has to prove with w2's they have been employed for the last 3 years and have made enough money to support themselves

if your son is 18, I doubt he can prove enough financial income for 3 past years


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

My DD's boyfriend is a UK citizen, and he also wants to immigrate - for him to qualify for a fiance Visa, they told my DD that she had to show that she had $16,000.  I don't know if that's income, or money in the bank.  

Then, within 3 mos. of entering the country, they would have to get married.


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## pjrose (Oct 15, 2009)

pjrose said:


> Holiday Inn ????





DeniseM said:


> Reference to a Holiday Inn commercial!



I still don't get it.


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## geekette (Oct 15, 2009)

Her parents brought her in when she was 2, and she has been here illegally all that time?  I think this could get quite messy, but have to wonder what she has done for ID all this time?  I don't know for sure when the SSN-at-birth thing happened, but since she's in school, she must have some id.

At 2 she had no choice, at 18, ...  yeah, she needs an attorney.  Marriage is not going to be the answer for either of them.  

Where are her parents now??


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## somerville (Oct 15, 2009)

pjrose said:


> I still don't get it.



If you saw the commercial, you would get it.


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

pjrose said:


> I still don't get it.



There is a series of Holiday Inn commercials, where someone says, "I'm not a ______, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night." 

So I was saying, I'm not an attorney (I can't give you professional advice) but this has been my personal experience.


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

geekette said:


> Her parents brought her in when she was 2, and she has been here illegally all that time?  I think this could get quite messy, but have to wonder what she has done for ID all this time?  I don't know for sure when the SSN-at-birth thing happened, but since she's in school, she must have some id.
> 
> At 2 she had no choice, at 18, ...  yeah, she needs an attorney.  Marriage is not going to be the answer for either of them.
> 
> Where are her parents now??



Nope - You do not have to be a citizen, or has a SSN, to enroll in public school in the US.  It's a don't-ask, don't-tell situation.  Probably 10% of my students are not citizens.


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## pjrose (Oct 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> There is a series of Holiday Inn commercials, where someone says, "I'm not a ______, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night."
> 
> So I was saying, I'm not an attorney (I can't give you professional advice) but this has been my personal experience.



Ahhhhhhhh - got it!  I thought it was some kind of reference to Holiday Inn using a lot of undocumented Latina/o staff, and hence you might be familiar with the topic......


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## John Cummings (Oct 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> My DD's boyfriend is a UK citizen, and he also wants to immigrate - for him to qualify for a fiance Visa, they told my DD that she had to show that she had $16,000.  I don't know if that's income, or money in the bank.
> 
> Then, within 3 mos. of entering the country, they would have to get married.



The $16,000 is money in the bank not income. That is to prove that he can support himself until they get married or he has to leave.


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## AKE (Oct 15, 2009)

You can get a SSN if you are in the US on a student visa.


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## pedro47 (Oct 15, 2009)

I think the baby would be a U S citizen and the mother would be deported back to her country.


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## geekette (Oct 15, 2009)

pedro47 said:


> I think the baby would be a U S citizen and the mother would be deported back to her country.



I didn't think the baby was born here.  And is now 18.


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## chellej (Oct 15, 2009)

Exactly, her parents brought when she was 2.  She turned 18 in July and is a senior in high school.

Her parents are here as her 2 younger siblings are us citizens.  I don't really understand all the rules.

She has no where to go back in Mexico, her family is here.  I would not want my 18 year old daughter going to a place she doesn't know, has no place to live, no job - she is stuck - illegal here and no where to go back to.


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2009)

If you are born in the US, you are a citizen, regardless of the status of your parents.


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## John Cummings (Oct 15, 2009)

geekette said:


> I didn't think the baby was born here.  And is now 18.



You are right. She was brought here from Mexico at the age of 2.

My wife is also from Mexico. We were married in Mexico and lived there for 4 years. We then went to Canada and immigrated to the US from Canada. I lived in Phoenix, AZ before going to Mexico and getting married. That was many years ago and the immigration laws have changed drastically since then. I was also older than 18.


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## John Cummings (Oct 15, 2009)

chellej said:


> ...She has no where to go back in Mexico, her family is here.  I would not want my 18 year old daughter going to a place she doesn't know, has no place to live, no job - she is stuck - illegal here and no where to go back to.



That is not an uncommon situation at all. We know several Mexican families in the same circumstance.


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## laurac260 (Oct 15, 2009)

What a quagmire this girl's parents have put her in.  It just goes to show you, it never pays to try to skirt the law.  It has now caught up with them, but it will end up hurting their daughter more than them.


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## DebBrown (Oct 15, 2009)

I wish I had advice.  My daughter teaches high school in Chicago and a huge percentage of her students are here illegally.  I have no idea how the school handles it.  I do know that these kids have no way to get government financial aid for college.  It is very frustrating.

Please report back what you find out.

Deb


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## laurac260 (Oct 15, 2009)

chellej said:


> Yes  I agree they need to speak with an immigration attorney.  My interpretation is the same - she has to leave in order to get legal status and that won't happen simply because she has no where to go.  They are HS sweethearts so the intent is real - they are just too young IMHO to even think about this.  DS is tormented because he really cares for her but isn't ready to make the committment.
> 
> It is really hard on these kids who know nothing else and really have no options



I know you feel for the girl, and I totally understand.  However, your son is YOUR son.  Even if  it was possible for her to gain citizenship by marrying him, I would not even think about encouraging that.  Marriages for all the wrong reasons rarely work out.  Regarding HS Sweethearts I can appreciate that.  However, does everyone remember their HS sweetheart?  Is he/she sitting on the couch next to you right now?  Mine certainly isn't, we haven't shared a spot on a couch in over 25 years.   Her parents need to step up to the plate and make this right for her.  You should not put this on your son's shoulders.  The only thing he should be thinking about right now is college.


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## Texasbelle (Oct 15, 2009)

Very common problem here in Houston.  Some go on to college and then cannot qualify to work since they have no ss number, etc.  Parents have put themselves and the girl in an impossible situation.  The reason Texas educates illegal children is that it is better to have them learn.  Probably a federal preference as well.  Kids also get free breakfast, lunch if they are low income.  Again, better than hungry kids, but where is the parental responsibility?  By the way, still married to my high school sweetheart for 50+ years.


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## teepeeca (Oct 16, 2009)

[Political post deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## isisdave (Oct 16, 2009)

I think you haven't mentioned the girl's parents. Where are they? I'm assuming they are also undocumented, but if they have acquired legal residency, and somehow forgot about the daughter, there might be possibilities.


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## chellej (Oct 16, 2009)

isisdave said:


> I think you haven't mentioned the girl's parents. Where are they? I'm assuming they are also undocumented, but if they have acquired legal residency, and somehow forgot about the daughter, there might be possibilities.



The parents are here and are illegal as well.  My understanding is that at this point she could still get a Mexican passport at the Mexican counsulate (because she just turned 18) but her parents are terrified of any contact with authority and won't give her her birth certificate so she can.

Tony

I think in Houston we have a similar situation although I don't know the numbers are so high.


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## laurac260 (Oct 16, 2009)

chellej said:


> The parents are here and are illegal as well.  My understanding is that at this point she could still get a Mexican passport at the Mexican counsulate (because she just turned 18) but her parents are terrified of any contact with authority and won't give her her birth certificate so she can.
> 
> Tony
> 
> I think in Houston we have a similar situation although I don't know the numbers are so high.



While I understand the parents plight, they have created a situation for their child that is of no fault to her, but one she will have to live with for the rest of her life, if they do not step up to the plate and try to make it right for her.   I said it before, but it bears repeating, do not put this on your young son's shoulders!


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## DeniseM (Oct 16, 2009)

Folks - please be very careful not to make this political. - Thanks, DeniseM


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## geekette (Oct 16, 2009)

Your son needs to consider HIS future.  It's good that you are all concerned about this girl, but your son is not in a position to marry anyone, and I don't think you want him involved in this in this way.  

It would be a terrible thing to have him always looking over his shoulder for INS, having to prove it's "a real marriage" and all that other stuff.

And quite likely, have a divorce behind him at a very young age.  

Plus, don't teach him to exploit loopholes.


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## John Cummings (Oct 16, 2009)

People should not be judgmental of the parents without understanding their circumstance. We know several people, many friends, and even some family members in the same situation. People do desperate things in order to survive.


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## laurac260 (Oct 16, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> People should not be judgmental of the parents without understanding their circumstance. We know several people, many friends, and even some family members in the same situation. People do desperate things in order to survive.



I hear what you are saying, and I have never been in such a situation where I needed to do anything desperate in order to surive, yet they have been here for 16 years.  Did they not have an opportunity to make their status legal in 16 years?


I must ask, how is it that we can be judgemental about people who may, or may not, have known about whether their kid was floating above Colorado in a balloon, how is it that we can be judgemental about a kid who had a pocket knife in his car and was suspended, but we cannot be judgemental about people who enter this country illegally and maintain illegal status for 16 years????

Why oh why is illegal immigration such a taboo subject?????  Why can't we talk about the fact that illegal immigration is, well, ILLEGAL?????


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## John Cummings (Oct 16, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> I hear what you are saying, and I have never been in such a situation where I needed to do anything desperate in order to survive, yet they have been here for 16 years.  Did they not have an opportunity to make their status legal in 16 years?
> 
> *The simple answer is no. They would not have had an opportunity to legalize their status in the US*
> 
> ...



I want to make it clear that it is not my intention to make this political in any form. I have deliberately stayed away from that. I am only presenting the reason why they, and others, come here illegally.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 16, 2009)

I think one of the reasons we can be judgmental about certain things and maybe shouldn't be about others, is because it's easier to put ourselves in some shoes than others.

That kid and the balloon?  There is no way as a parent that I would give my kids an opportunity to fly away, first of all.  And if it happened that they did, or if I thought that they did, there is no way that I would try to excuse my lack of parenting that allowed it to possibly happen, especially not by using sensationalized media.

The kid with the knife?  My kids were in high school and I know what I expected from them.  He's old enough, certainly, to understand that there are consequences related to every action.  He and his parents should have known the school rules.  He broke one, he's been disciplined for it, he and his parents should accept the consequences and learn from them.

What motivates illegal aliens to come here, stay here, have children here who might face obstacles because of their status?  I honestly have no idea, can not even begin to imagine the desperation that may have driven them.  And I have no interest in adding more desperation to their lives.


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## DeniseM (Oct 16, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> Why oh why is illegal immigration such a taboo subject?????  Why can't we talk about the fact that illegal immigration is, well, ILLEGAL?????



If it becomes a contentious political discussion, it falls in this category of posts that are not permitted on TUG:



> Avoid posting about *politics*, religion, or* contentious social issues*
> Unless directly related to timesharing, such discussions are prohibited in these forums, including TUG Lounge. We've been down that road before, it was ugly, and we are not going there again.



Why?  Because those are the rules on TUG....

I know it's a very fine line.  If you are sharing info. and providing helpful advice, you are probably fine.  If you go off on a rant against illegal aliens...well....you know what will happen.


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## ricoba (Oct 16, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> If you go off on a rant against illegal aliens...well....you know what will happen.



I see the idiot balloon Dad in Colorado believes Hillary Clinton is an alien...of the reptilian type...!!!  :ignore:


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## AKE (Oct 20, 2009)

I would think that the parents came because of economic reasons, not other e.g. political refugees.  While some people will do almost anything to live in a particular country, what they are doing is hurting people who follow the rules and get admitted legally.  There is no denying that many of the illegals are very nice people but at the same time, someone ends up paying the bill, either the illegals or the country where they are residing illegally.


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## laurac260 (Oct 20, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> If it becomes a contentious political discussion, it falls in this category of posts that are not permitted on TUG:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't going to bother to reply, but since someone resurrected this from page 2 of the current threads, what I actually meant was why can't we talk about these things _in the real world_, not in TUG world (I know, hard to believe there is a world outside of TUG, isn't it?  )


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## pranas (Oct 20, 2009)

chellej said:


> Exactly, her parents brought when she was 2.  She turned 18 in July and is a senior in high school.
> 
> Her parents are here as her 2 younger siblings are us citizens.  I don't really understand all the rules.
> 
> She has no where to go back in Mexico, her family is here.  I would not want my 18 year old daughter going to a place she doesn't know, has no place to live, no job - she is stuck - illegal here and no where to go back to.



She could enroll in Mexican Unversity for six months after she finishes high school.


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## ScoopKona (Oct 20, 2009)

AKE said:


> You can get a SSN if you are in the US on a student visa.



Link, please? 

I don't think this is the case.


EDIT - Incidentally, DW is a teacher. Most of her students are undocumented aliens -- like 90%. These kids have been in the country for most of their lives. Often they were born here. They speak Spanish, because that's the language their parents speak at home. But they speak English as well, many of them better than "native" Americans. Their parents don't do anything about the childrens' status because they're afraid of being deported. The kids were also brought up being told to never have any dealings with the government. I don't fault the children, at all. And it's hard to fault the adults. If I was born in Latin America, I would probably be here an undocumented alien, also. The lure of a decent life where you can raise a family without an entrenched class system is too great.

I agree that it's ridiculous to deport a high-school student when this is the only place he or she has ever known.


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## DG001 (Oct 20, 2009)

Some time in either 2000 or 2001, they severely restricted the reasons SSNs could be issued. Prior to that, I think you could even get one just for opening a deposit account that earned interest! Certainly all foreign students could get one.

The SSN cards issued to non-US citizens/green card holders, however, clearly stated work restrictions right on the face of the card. "Not valid for employment" or something similar.


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## DeniseM (Oct 20, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> (I know, hard to believe there is a world outside of TUG, isn't it?  )



There is????


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## chellej (Oct 20, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> Link, please?
> 
> I don't think this is the case.
> 
> ...




This is exactly the case and I agree 100%


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## John Cummings (Oct 20, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> Link, please?
> 
> I don't think this is the case.
> 
> ...



Excellent post. I am happy to find somebody else that understands their situation.


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## CatLovers (Oct 20, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> People should not be judgmental of the parents without understanding their circumstance. We know several people, many friends, and even some family members in the same situation. People do desperate things in order to survive.



Agreed 100%.

I find that it's very easy to be the armchair critic and quote the "rules" when your basic needs (food, shelter, safety) are not at stake.  It is easy to talk about doing the "right" thing when it's not you facing the circumstances.  Things sure change when you find yourself in a situation where these basic needs are threatened.  I have a great deal of empathy for this family and the corner they seem to have painted themselves into.


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## AKE (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't know the link but my son went to the US on a student visa and definitely had a SSN and a job legally at the university.  I know that had he wanted to, he could also have had a job outside of the university if it was related to his course of study (and this was a loose definition from my recollection) or if there was a financial need(he didn't pursue this though). He graduated this year and is now back home in Canada but I believe that he could have applied for another type of visa (green card?) to continue working there as he had been there legally for more than a year (or maybe it was more?).  It is all on the US government web site.


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## Wonka (Oct 21, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> I'm not an attorney, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night



LOL.  Love your use of humor.


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## laurac260 (Oct 22, 2009)

CatLovers said:


> Agreed 100%.
> 
> I find that it's very easy to be the armchair critic and quote the "rules" when your basic needs (food, shelter, safety) are not at stake.  It is easy to talk about doing the "right" thing when it's not you facing the circumstances.  Things sure change when you find yourself in a situation where these basic needs are threatened.  I have a great deal of empathy for this family and the corner they seem to have painted themselves into.



How quickly we all seem to forget why, and more importantly HOW, our ancestors got to this country!  If they were able to follow the laws, why can't others?


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## John Cummings (Oct 22, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> How quickly we all seem to forget why, and more importantly HOW, our ancestors got to this country!  If they were able to follow the laws, why can't others?



There were no laws that our ancestors had to follow. Now it is impossible for most people to immigrate to the US. Those that are lucky enough to qualify typically have to wait up to several years.


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## geekette (Oct 22, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> There were no laws that our ancestors had to follow. Now it is impossible for most people to immigrate to the US. Those that are lucky enough to qualify typically have to wait up to several years.



Exactly.  If you wanted to come to America, you came.  They might change your name when you got to Ellis Island, but you were here and could stay.


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## DeniseM (Oct 22, 2009)

Except for criminals and other undesirables, the US had virtually no limits or requirements for immigration until after the Civil War.  All you had to do was enter the country and live here a certain number of years, and you could become a citizen.


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## ricoba (Oct 22, 2009)

geekette said:


> Exactly.  If you wanted to come to America, you came.  They might change your name when you got to Ellis Island, but you were here and could stay.



Actually, Ellis Island immigration did send some back to their country of origin.  Very few, but it was possible even then to be denied entry.


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## Luanne (Oct 22, 2009)

ricoba said:


> Actually, Ellis Island immigration did send some back to their country of origin.  Very few, but it was possible even then to be denied entry.



Was that mostly if the entering person was sick?  Or were there other reasons?  And not everyone came through Ellis Island, right?


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## ricoba (Oct 22, 2009)

Luanne said:


> Was that mostly if the entering person was sick?  Or were there other reasons?  And not everyone came through Ellis Island, right?




From what I have read, the primary reason for sending someone back was due to lack of paperwork or sickness or sponsors in the US.

Here is an interesting article from Ancestry.com regarding Ellis Island and myths that have developed around it.  The other myth appears to be the name change myth.

As I stated in my original post it was a small number turned away (about 2%).  Wikipedia uses the National Parks site as a reference for this.  As well as mentioning the name change myth.

You are right about not everyone coming through Ellis Island, because of course we here in CA have Angel Island, which was our own immigration station.

What I find interesting is how myths develop around historical events/places etc.  I didn't post these to refute any arguements here, since I don't want to get involved in an immigration debate.  

I do find it fascinating to dig into history and find out things maybe weren't like I believed or thought.  I think my interest was piqued this past year when I had to do some research and a paper regarding the Statue of Liberty and the Emma Lazarus sonnet, The New Colossus..."Give me your tired..."


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## Luanne (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks Rick for all of the links.  Interesting stuff.

I knew about Angel's Island.  I wasn't referring to those who came in through other embarcation points.  I thought I'd read somewhere that even all immigrants that came into New York weren't processed through Ellis Island.  It's very possible that I'm not remembering correctly.


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## ricoba (Oct 22, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I thought I'd read somewhere that even all immigrants that came into New York weren't processed through Ellis Island.  It's very possible that I'm not remembering correctly.



Off the top of my head I would assume you are correct.  Though NYC was the primary disembarkation port from Europe during that era, I am sure there were others as well, I just don't know what ports those would be.


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## Luanne (Oct 22, 2009)

ricoba said:


> Off the top of my head I would assume you are correct.  Though NYC was the primary disembarkation port from Europe during that era, I am sure there were others as well, I just don't know what ports those would be.



No, that still wasn't what I meant.  Sorry for not being clear.  I thought what I'd read was that certain passenger classes didn't have to go through Ellis Island.  For example, if you were traveling first class you were processed elsewhere, or maybe not even really processed, just let in.  Again, I could be remembering wrong, or maybe it's something I saw in a movie that wasn't factual.


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## esk444 (Oct 22, 2009)

FYI, if you are looking for an immigration lawyer, just make sure they are a member of the American Immigration Lawyers Association and are licensed to practice law.  Immigration law attracts a lot of hucksters, very low quality attorneys (particularly in CA), and a bunch of pretend attorneys called notarios that give out terrible advice.

Local AILA chapters, law school professors, law school clinics, legal aid societies, and public interest group like Catholic charities are also great places to get referrals for pro bono or reasonably priced immigration attorneys.


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## geekette (Oct 22, 2009)

name change is no myth.  

One branch of "my people" left Austria with a name that started with Szy.... (I'd have to dig out the family chart, not handy) and they became Shoemaker.  

This was my grandmother's family, before she was born (I think she was baby #9).  I got to meet most of her 10 siblings, a few that were old enuf to remember that they got a new name when they got here.


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## easyrider (Oct 22, 2009)

The way the law is concerning immigrants is that there is no incentive and everything to lose playing by the rules. Any one can marry any one in the USA but the consequences of breaking immigration law follows. People marry illegal immigrants all the time. Most of these people do not have the education or financial resources to go through the legal process.

I think the 14th amendment says that if a child is born in the USA to illegal immigrants, that child is not a citizen of the USA. The only exception are American Indians. In the wording of a subsequent article to the amendment was a loophole exploited for the benefit of illegal immigrants. So even though a person is born in the USA to illegal immigrants, by just being born in the USA they are considered citizens.

[Political statement removed - DeniseM Moderator]


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## ScoopKona (Oct 22, 2009)

laurac260 said:


> How quickly we all seem to forget why, and more importantly HOW, our ancestors got to this country!  If they were able to follow the laws, why can't others?



Some of my ancestors came to this country a lonnnnnnnggggggg time ago. Back then, all people had to do was brave the voyage. Although three weeks in a leaky wooden boat across the North Atlantic should be "enough" to get in.

In the same spirit, I think anyone taking a non-motorized rubber raft through shark-infested waters from Cuba or Haiti should simply be let in. You want to be here that bad? C'mon in. Hopping the Rio Grande isn't as impressive, IMHO.


EDIT -- That being said, I don't fault people for wanting to hop the Rio Grande. By and large, immigration is a good thing. We sometimes lose sight of that. Many great citizens were immigrants -- Albert Einstein, Frank Oz, Gloria Estafan, Enrico Fermi, John Kenneth Galbraith, Edward Teller, Nikola Tesla, Igor Sikorsky, Gene-freakin'-Simmons, Alexander Hamilton. Oh, yeah, and the current Governor of California, and my wife.


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## DeniseM (Oct 22, 2009)

easyrider said:


> I think the 14th amendment says that if a child is born in the USA to illegal immigrants, that child is not a citizen of the USA.



That's completely incorrect - the 14th amendment says that anyone born in the US is a citizen - there is no reference to parentage.  

_Section 1. *All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States* and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
_


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## DeniseM (Oct 22, 2009)

Folks - let's remember to stay on topic, and stay off our soap boxes - please....


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## davhu1 (Oct 22, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Except for criminals and other undesirables, the US had virtually no limits or requirements for immigration until after the Civil War.  All you had to do was enter the country and live here a certain number of years, and you could become a citizen.



The Chinese Exclusion Law prevented the immigration of Chinese from 1882 until lifted by Kennedy in 1965.


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## DeniseM (Oct 22, 2009)

davhu1 said:


> The Chinese Exclusion Law prevented the immigration of Chinese from 1882 until lifted by Kennedy in 1965.



Correct - after the Civil War (1861 - 1865) there were many immigration laws passed.


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## ricoba (Oct 22, 2009)

geekette said:


> name change is no myth.
> 
> One branch of "my people" left Austria with a name that started with Szy.... (I'd have to dig out the family chart, not handy) and they became Shoemaker.
> 
> This was my grandmother's family, before she was born (I think she was baby #9).  I got to meet most of her 10 siblings, a few that were old enuf to remember that they got a new name when they got here.



While I don't dispute that this may have occurred, I just reread the article regarding Ellis Island, and it seems clear that changing names was not something that occurred at Ellis Island (though as it states names were changed thousands of times)  

Here is the quotation from the work cited:

"Immigrants’ surnames were changed thousands of times, but professional researchers have found that name changes were rare at Ellis Island (or at Castle Island, which was the New York port of entry prior to Ellis Island's opening). The myth of name changes usually revolves around the concept that the immigrant was unable to communicate properly with the English-speaking officials at Ellis Island. However, this ignores the fact that Ellis Island employed hundreds of translators who could speak, read, and write the immigrants’ native tongues. It also ignores all the documentation that an immigrant needed to have in order to be admitted into the U.S."

I don't have a dog in this fight, I just find it interesting, how things change over time and real history isn't always what we think or believe. 

Here for example are some of the English variants of my own last name Gallagher, which comes from the original Gaelic Ó Gallchóbhair -

Callagher, Galagher, Galaher, Galagher, Galigher, Gallacher, Gallaghar, Gallagher, Gallahar, Gallaher, Gallaugher, Galliher, Gallihur, Gallocher, Gallogher, Galloher, Gallougher,Galligher, Goligher, Gollagher, Gollaher, Golleher,  Golliher, Gollocher, Gollogher, Golloher, Gollougher, Goloher,


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## easyrider (Oct 23, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> That's completely incorrect - the 14th amendment says that anyone born in the US is a citizen - there is no reference to parentage.
> 
> _Section 1. *All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States* and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
> _



"Subject to the jurisdiction there of " How can the non citizen parents be subject to any jurisdiction especially if they are here ileagly ? This is the reference to the parent of these anchor babies who's citizenship as of now is assured but debatable and surely an unintended result of the articles of the 14th amendment.


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## easyrider (Oct 23, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Except for criminals and other undesirables, the US had virtually no limits or requirements for immigration until after the Civil War.  All you had to do was enter the country and live here a certain number of years, and you could become a citizen.



That's not exactly true. A person had to pledge their alligence to our country and learn the English language.


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## DeniseM (Oct 23, 2009)

Bill - You seem bound and determined to make this a political discussion, and I think this is a good place to stop, and agree to disagree.


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## swift (Oct 23, 2009)

chellej said:


> ds is dating a girl who parents brought her here from mexico when she was 2.  Needless to say she is here illegally.
> 
> She thinks that if she marries a US citizen (DS)  that she will be able to get her citizenship.
> 
> ...




It would be best if this thread kept to the OP's original question. Taking this off into other directions goes to far into the political arena.


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## John Cummings (Oct 23, 2009)

easyrider said:


> That's not exactly true. A person had to pledge their alligence to our country and learn the English language.



An immigrant does NOT have to pledge allegiance nor learn English. That is the requirement to become a naturalized citizen. I am an immigrant and a naturalized US citizen. Many people confuse US citizenship with the immigration process. They are 2 different things. A person that legally immigrates to the US with a resident visa may apply for US citizenship after 5 years. They must take a test on US government etc., be somewhat proficient in English and pledge allegiance to the US. There is no obligation for an immigrant to ever become a US citizen. This is not a political statement but simply what the law is.


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## easyrider (Oct 23, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> An immigrant does NOT have to pledge allegiance nor learn English. That is the requirement to become a naturalized citizen.



Exactly. A person doesn't have to pledge their allegiance or learn english to live in America with the proper documents. To become a citizen there are requirements. My mother, who married an American, became a naturalized citizen after she learned english, passed her test and took her oath.


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