# Southwest Airlines Has Decided to Completely Stop Overbooking Flights



## MULTIZ321 (Apr 29, 2017)

Southwest Airlines Has Decided to Completely Stop Overbooking Flights
By Allison Sanchez/ Life/ UPROXX/ uproxx.com

"Two free checked bags, zero rescheduling fees, and now a guarantee that they won’t brutally drag you off of the plane screaming? Why, Southwest, you _spoil_ us!

Southwest’s CEO, Gary Kelly, announced to CNBC today that the airline will no longer overbook flights.

“I’ve made the decision, the company has made the decision, that we will cease to overbook going forward,” Kelly said. “We’ve been taking steps over the last few years to prepare for this anyway.” They have yet to announce the exact date that the new policy will be put in place but indicated that it will be soon...."





Getty Image


Richard


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## Passepartout (Apr 29, 2017)

Laudable, but perhaps easier for Southwest than other carriers, simply by virtue of only having ONE aircraft type. They all hold the same number of seats, and with their boarding system of the 3 rows of passengers lined up to board, the gate agents KNOW how many seats the flight will hold. It would be darn near impossible to have more passengers than seats.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2017)

It seems that for airlines that overselling allows them to keep costs down overall for all fliers. Those seats that are sold that don't fly are additional profit for the airline, with margins as tight as they are, if they stop overselling, then prices will have to rise. Southwest is already too expensive for us. They are not competitive on any routes that I have checked recently. This will make them even less so.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 29, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> It seems that for airlines that overselling allows them to keep costs down overall for all fliers. Those seats that are sold that don't fly are additional profit for the airline, with margins as tight as they are, if they stop overselling, then prices will have to rise. Southwest is already too expensive for us. They are not competitive on any routes that I have checked recently. This will make them even less so.


Hi Dioxide45,

I'm curious, does this hold true even when Southwest has their reduced fare sales?

Richard


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 29, 2017)

Having flown SWA for years over basicly the same route ... overbooking has been happen less and less.

It is a matter of the math ... and having the flights occupancy/seats sold history for modeling.

And yes, while flight cost might be higher weeks out in the future ... the day of flight price might be the cheaper.


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## Luanne (Apr 29, 2017)

I love Southwest.  They are always my carrier of choice if they have the route I need.  I've never experience being bumped and I don't even remember any announcements of overbooking when I've flown them.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2017)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Hi Dioxide45,
> 
> I'm curious, does this hold true even when Southwest has their reduced fare sales?
> 
> Richard


I don't follow Southwest prices that often, so I am only checking when I am checking for a specific trip and we have never really found them to be cheaper. We used to love AirTran and flew them almost exclusively for years to Florida, Aruba and Cancun until Southwest gobbled them up.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 29, 2017)

Luanne said:


> I love Southwest.  They are always my carrier of choice if they have the route I need.  I've never experience being bumped and I don't even remember any announcements of overbooking when I've flown them.


Which is odd, as based on reports, Southwest involuntarily bumped more passengers than any other large airline last year.


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## Luanne (Apr 29, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Which is odd, as based on reports, Southwest involuntarily bumped more passengers than any other large airline last year.


I know, I read that.  I'm just going by my experience.  Maybe it's the routes I fly?


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## PigsDad (Apr 29, 2017)

Personally, I will (and have many times) paid more to fly on Southwest when a comparable flight was less expensive on other legacy airlines.  Being 6'5", I find SW coach seats more comfortable than most any other airline.  In addition, between the usually friendly service, free baggage, free itinerary changes and ability to get credit when your flight goes on sale long after your original purchase (of which I have taken advantage of several times), I gladly pay a small premium (sometimes) to fly them vs. United / Delta / American / etc.

The addition of this new feature of not overselling will just make me an even more loyal customer.  I'm sure there are still plenty of people who will choose other airlines to save even $5 -- I'm sort of glad those people will not be flying on SW with me...

Kurt


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## VegasBella (Apr 29, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> It seems that for airlines that overselling allows them to keep costs down overall for all fliers.


That assumes overselling is the only way to cut costs. They can cut costs any number of ways. 
Or they can simply decide to profit a bit less. Or maybe just gamble that this policy will increase overall sales enough to make up for nonoverbooking loss.



Luanne said:


> I love Southwest.  They are always my carrier of choice if they have the route I need.  I've never experience being bumped and I don't even remember any announcements of overbooking when I've flown them.


I like Southwest as well. They are virtually always friendly AND funny. And I missed my flight once and they just put me on the next one as standby, no extra charges, no lecture, just friendly. 

That said, their seating policy bugs me sometimes. I really hate taking a risk that I won't be able to be seated next to my family. I don't like it and my son can't stand it. He gets very scared and started crying when it happened on a SW flight recently. You can plan and plan and get an A boarding pass and be at the airport early etc but then something happens and you end up in the bathroom a little too long (the kind of thing that can happen with kids) and all of a sudden you're last to board and you can't sit next to each other. It really sucks.


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## mdurette (Apr 30, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> That said, their seating policy bugs me sometimes. I really hate taking a risk that I won't be able to be seated next to my family. I don't like it and my son can't stand it. He gets very scared and started crying when it happened on a SW flight recently.



We are a family of 3.  Loyal SW customers for years.   We make a habit of checking in at T24 and typically get something in the B's.  I don't worry that the 3 of us can sit together, but 2 of us need to so DD can have a parent with her.

Well....it finally happened a couple of weeks ago, we were out an about and I forgot to check in at T24 (it was more like T18) and we ended up with high Cs.   The worry set in.   Once at the airport I checked in with the gate to see if they were selling any leftover A1-15 boarding passes, they were so I upgraded 2 of our tickets (cost $80) and all was fine.   A bit of an expensive lesson just because I forgot to check-in....but worth it to us.   

Next fights, I will be sure to set a reminder/alarm on my phone to check in on time!

On a side note:  on the second leg of that flight I ended up sitting next to a SW flight attendant.  I asked her if they would ever force the issue of a kid by themselves.   She said it almost always works out, if nobody volunteers to give up their seat so a parent can sit with a child, then she starts offering free drink vouchers and usually someone does.   She said the biggest cause is normally families coming in on a connecting flight that was delayed.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 30, 2017)

First time my 12yo nephew was travelling without Mom or Dad ... with me only ... we volunteered for a bump ($300 each) for a little over a 2hr wait...overbooked flight to WDW on Saturday 9AM flight of MLK Weekend. Called and asked his mother ... and she was certain he would freaked after the original plane left the gate. He and I talked, accepted the deal, got a snack after looking at every vendor stand in the terminal ... enjoyed the new flight down and found our luggage in our 1bdr condo at AKV by the time we checkin.


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## VegasBella (Apr 30, 2017)

mdurette said:


> On a side note:  on the second leg of that flight I ended up sitting next to a SW flight attendant.  I asked her if they would ever force the issue of a kid by themselves.   She said it almost always works out, if nobody volunteers to give up their seat so a parent can sit with a child, then she starts offering free drink vouchers and usually someone does.   She said the biggest cause is normally families coming in on a connecting flight that was delayed.



Well I think that really depends. My son and I were separated on a SW flight. I had even asked for help from the attendants earlier but they gave the seats they were 'saving' for us to another group of people. And then we were scrambling to find seats. I almost just got off the plane. The attendants were not helpful in that situation.
To make matters worse, *the only reason we were late boarding was he had to go to the restroom and it took a long time. I had even paid extra for A boarding passes and we were at the gate an hour early.*


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## am1 (Apr 30, 2017)

I would avoid swa if traveling with someone else.  I do not want to sit beside some stranger.  To me their boarding policy is not worth any gains.

Maybe swa not having high priced last minute seats makes it easier to not overbook.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 30, 2017)

We always utilize the early bird check in. Sure it's $15 each way but, I'm not paying for luggage and I'm not paying to select a better seat or extra leg room or any other annoying fee. We're always In the A boarding group and have never had an issue sitting together. Unless your in the last boarding group and probably towards the end of the last boarding group, I doubt you'll have an issue sitting together.

Actually, SWA's boarding process is one reason we prefer them. Just get on and sit down. No gate lice in boarding group 10 blocking everyone else by standing in front of the gate, all worried they have to be the first in group 10 because they've brought a ton of carry on bags. SWA's boarding process is simple, orderly and quick


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 30, 2017)

I have travelled on SWA several times with minors ... who should NOT be seated away from me. Never had a problem ... plus I encourage the kids to pick where we sit.


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## PigsDad (Apr 30, 2017)

dougp26364 said:


> Actually, SWA's boarding process is one reason we prefer them. Just get on and sit down. *No gate lice in boarding group 10 blocking everyone else by standing in front of the gate, all worried they have to be the first in group 10 because they've brought a ton of carry on bags.* SWA's boarding process is simple, orderly and quick


Couldn't agree more! 

Kurt


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## WinniWoman (May 1, 2017)

This the way it should be. No overbooking and no bumping. Standby ok.


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## mdurette (May 1, 2017)

am1 said:


> I would avoid swa if traveling with someone else.  I do not want to sit beside some stranger.  To me their boarding policy is not worth any gains.



I happen to think of their boarding policy in a positive way.  Let's face it, you will always have to sit near or around a stranger on a plane.  If only 2 traveling....there will always be someone in the 3rd seat.   Southwest boarding policy gives you the option to pick who surrounds you.

Example:  You get on the plane, pick your seats and settle in.   Then all of a sudden the row behind you fills with (you pick it)....someone that appears to have the flu, a screaming baby, a fighting couple, someone that really needs a bath or at least a stick of deodorant.     You simply get up and move to another seat (assuming you don't wait to the last minute to do this).   No issues, no questions.

With assigned seating, you are stuck.    With SW, at least there is a potential option for you.


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## dougp26364 (May 1, 2017)

Actually, this policy might create more opportunities to fly standby, and thereby create revenue if they charge a standby fee.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 1, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Having flown SWA for years over basicly the same route ... overbooking has been happen less and less.
> 
> It is a matter of the math ... and having the flights occupancy/seats sold history for modeling.


My experience flying overall (and very seldom on Southwest) is that the frequency of bumping has decreased greatly over the last ten years - at least on the flights that I fly. I used to routinely collect at least two bumps per year - which would pay for at least one free flight.  The airlines have become much better in predicting passenger loads.



dioxide45 said:


> I don't follow Southwest prices that often, so I am only checking when I am checking for a specific trip and we have never really found them to be cheaper. We used to love AirTran and flew them almost exclusively for years to Florida, Aruba and Cancun until Southwest gobbled them up.


I periodically check SW for my flights out of SEA, and only rarely are they cheaper than Alaska.  And on Alaska I'm far less likely to need to make a connection.  



dougp26364 said:


> Actually, this policy might create more opportunities to fly standby, and thereby create revenue if they charge a standby fee.


The other part will be the pricing for cancellable tickets.  If someone buys a ticket, then has a last minute change in plans, they will get the revenue from the change.  They can play the math with ticket pricing and cancellation fees, as well as standy charges, to make this revenue neutral.


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## dominidude (May 1, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> It seems that for airlines that overselling allows them to keep costs down overall for all fliers. Those seats that are sold that don't fly are additional profit for the airline, with margins as tight as they are, if they stop overselling, then prices will have to rise. Southwest is already too expensive for us. They are not competitive on any routes that I have checked recently. This will make them even less so.


The $ saved is directly proportional to the inconvenience caused.
In order for the airline to have savings from overbooking, the airline has to be pretty tight fisted on the $ it offers passangers who are bumped. After all,  the airline loses money for each passengers they have to pay any $ to,  and they only come out ahead when there are actual no shows.
If the airlines offer too much money to bumped passengers,  overbooking ends up being not helpful to anyone.
I read somewhere that if overbooking were to become illegal,  the entire airline industry would need to cough up an additional 23m annually, and that profits last year were over 35 billion.
So all in all,  it's surprising to me that more airlines haven't announced that they will end overbooking.


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## VegasBella (May 1, 2017)

dougp26364 said:


> We always utilize the early bird check in. Sure it's $15 each way but, I'm not paying for luggage and I'm not paying to select a better seat or extra leg room or any other annoying fee. We're always In the A boarding group and have never had an issue sitting together. Unless your in the last boarding group and probably towards the end of the last boarding group, I doubt you'll have an issue sitting together.


The two specific examples in this thread were:
- When a connecting flight gets delayed
- When even after having group A boarding passes something happens at the airport to cause a delay for those passengers (in my case, a long bathroom visit by my son)

I generally like SW and I even think the boarding policy is pretty good. BUT there are very legitimate reasons someone might have a group A boarding pass and yet actually board the plane with group B or C and then end up sitting separately. Good planning only goes so far. Sometimes bad things happen.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 1, 2017)

I keep hoping to be able to get a bump and some cash for agreeing to a later flight, but it never happens.  I guess it's not likely to happen now, since SW is about the only airline we fly in the contiguous 48 states.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 1, 2017)

dominidude said:


> The $ saved is directly proportional to the inconvenience caused.
> In order for the airline to have savings from overbooking, the airline has to be pretty tight fisted on the $ it offers passangers who are bumped. After all,  the airline loses money for each passengers they have to pay any $ to,  and they only come out ahead when there are actual no shows.
> If the airlines offer too much money to bumped passengers,  overbooking ends up being not helpful to anyone.
> I read somewhere that if overbooking were to become illegal,  the entire airline industry would need to cough up an additional 23m annually, and that profits last year were over 35 billion.
> So all in all,  it's surprising to me that more airlines haven't announced that they will end overbooking.


With a significant proviso, I see nothing at all wrong with the current system in which airlines offer money to passengers to take a voluntary bump.  The proviso being that the airline must only remove passengers voluntarily, which means they need to raise their offer to whatever amount is necessary to generate the required number of seats.  

When enough passengers accept the bump, there is no issue with passenger satisfaction due to overbooking.  Presumably, everyone who takes the bump does so because what they are being offered to accept the bump is worth more to them that staying on that particular flight.  So it's a win for them.  No passenger is left behind involuntarily.  The problem only happens when someone is involuntarily denied boarding. In fact, there are people, myself included, who will often book flights where I think there is a good possibility of getting a bump, so that I can collect the money.  When I know a plane is near capacity, and I"m looking for a bump, as soon as I get the to the gate I check in with the gate agent and let them know that I am willing to take a bump.  I want to be as high on the bump list as I can be. 

As for the airlines, it simply turns into a cost issue.  Their algorithms to predict load are pretty good and continually getting better.  So they have a pretty good idea what the probability is that they will have to ask to for volunteers, and based on experience they probably have a good idea of how much they are going to have to pay to get the volunteers needed.  With that information they can predict the costs.  They can directly compare that with how much extra revenue they generate from the overbooking.  If they can see that the cost of getting volunteers to bump is getting too large, that gives them a direct economic message to cutback on the amount of overbooking they do.  

The problem solves itself, without any need for outside intervention.  The airline adjusts it's oversell policies to meet market conditions.  All passengers get either their assigned seats, or a replacement that is worth more to them than their original flight arrangement.  

********

I think there's evidence that what I describe above has actually happened.  As I mentioned upthread (and often in other threads regarding bumps), even though I'm flying as much as ever, my bumping opportunities have dropped dramatically.  Ten to fifteen years ago, I could count on generating at least $500 worth of flight vouchers a year.  A couple of years I scored well over $1000.  In the years when an Alaska Airlines bump was good for a round-trip ticket anywhere in their system, with no blackout dates, I sent my wife and daughter to Cancun during Presidents Week (one of the peak travel periods out of Seattle to Mexico), on two vouchers, then had two more that I used for travel to Hawaii for DW and I.  

It's no wonder that Alaska changed their policies!!!!


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## Dori (May 1, 2017)

Over the past several years, we have been voluntarily bumped on several occasions. It was great! We'll miss future opportunities to get paid to wait a few hours. SW is our very favourite airline, and we travel 3 hours from Toronto to fly with them. Everything is so easy and laid back. I love their boarding process, and find it so much more orderly than any other airlines.

We "LUV" SW!

Dori


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## dioxide45 (May 1, 2017)

dominidude said:


> The $ saved is directly proportional to the inconvenience caused.
> In order for the airline to have savings from overbooking, the airline has to be pretty tight fisted on the $ it offers passangers who are bumped. After all,  the airline loses money for each passengers they have to pay any $ to,  and they only come out ahead when there are actual no shows.
> If the airlines offer too much money to bumped passengers,  overbooking ends up being not helpful to anyone.
> I read somewhere that if overbooking were to become illegal,  the entire airline industry would need to cough up an additional 23m annually, and that profits last year were over 35 billion.
> So all in all,  it's surprising to me that more airlines haven't announced that they will end overbooking.


They may overbook a flight by 10 passengers but only have to offer compensation to two if 8 of the passengers don't show up. They probably don't lose money when they voluntarily bump passengers since they are just giving away a free flight in the future. It is when they involuntarily bump and have to pay up to four times the fare in cash that they perhaps lose on the scheme.

The ultimate plan is to forecast the correct number of no shows so that there isn't any people to bump.


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## dougp26364 (May 1, 2017)

VegasBella said:


> The two specific examples in this thread were:
> - When a connecting flight gets delayed
> - When even after having group A boarding passes something happens at the airport to cause a delay for those passengers (in my case, a long bathroom visit by my son)
> 
> I generally like SW and I even think the boarding policy is pretty good. BUT there are very legitimate reasons someone might have a group A boarding pass and yet actually board the plane with group B or C and then end up sitting separately. Good planning only goes so far. Sometimes bad things happen.



Of course this is true even with assigned seating systems. Last December we had 2 first class tickets on Delta. On the return flight I checked our seats the night before and all was fine. Got to the airport and they had separate us. No apparent reason and no change in equipment.


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## LannyPC (May 2, 2017)

dougp26364 said:


> Actually, SWA's boarding process is one reason we prefer them. Just get on and sit down. No gate lice in boarding group 10 blocking everyone else by standing in front of the gate, all worried they have to be the first in group 10 *because they've brought a ton of carry on bags*. SWA's boarding process is simple, orderly and quick



A little off topic here buuuuuut... I thought that WN's policy of not charging for the first two checked bags would actually reduce the amount of carry-on bags.  It seems that the airlines that do charge for checked bags end up with the most amount of carry-ons from passengers who do not want to pay the airlines' exorbitant checked baggage fees.


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## JudyS (May 2, 2017)

What surprises me about this is that Southwest lets passengers cancel up to 10 minutes before departure and get a full credit of their fare towards a future flight. If you're flying on frequent flier miles, the cancellation policy is even better -- cancel up to 10 minutes before departure and your miles just go back into your account. No fuss, no fees. 

Letting passengers cancel up to 10 minutes before departure *and* not overbooking seems pretty risky. I hope Southwest won't change their cancellation policy. I care way more about being able to cancel last minute than I care about overbooking.


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## dougp26364 (May 2, 2017)

LannyPC said:


> A little off topic here buuuuuut... I thought that WN's policy of not charging for the first two checked bags would actually reduce the amount of carry-on bags.  It seems that the airlines that do charge for checked bags end up with the most amount of carry-ons from passengers who do not want to pay the airlines' exorbitant checked baggage fees.



There are flyers who hate waiting on their checked and only do carry on, regardless of the airline. This seems especially true with the weekender Vegas crowds.

But as a whole it seems to me there are fewer carry on bags on the SWA flights we've taken, which is another reason I like them. Due to cameras and electronics we always have a bag that needs to go up with enough expensive equipment I DON'T want it in checked baggage


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## VegasBella (May 2, 2017)

dougp26364 said:


> Of course this is true even with assigned seating systems. Last December we had 2 first class tickets on Delta. On the return flight I checked our seats the night before and all was fine. Got to the airport and they had separate us. No apparent reason and no change in equipment.



True. I experienced this myself on a long international flight. I tried to change seats and no one would accommodate me. Flight attendants were not helpful. So I got off the plane and rescheduled the entire trip. I was furious. And it caused a lot of hassle for other passengers too. But I paid for seats together. And those people who refused to move were flying alone - would have been so easy to change seats.


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## Cdn Gal (May 3, 2017)

We LOVE LOVE LOVE southwest!! We travel the extra 45min last Syracuse to fly with them.  The free luggage is worth it alone!  They are nice, funny, helpful, have changed our flights with no cost and we get points for flying with them as well!  Lol people should fly Air Canada and then see why we travel 3.5 hours to fly with them!


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## LannyPC (May 4, 2017)

Cdn Gal said:


> We LOVE LOVE LOVE southwest!!...see why we travel 3.5 hours to fly with them!



Well I guess this new No Overbooking policy just gave you another reason, eh.

BTW, do you go to DTW or BUF for your flights?


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## funtime (May 4, 2017)

I was on an overbooked Southwest flight last Sunday night coming from Orange County CA to Sacramento.  They needed to bump two passengers and offered $500 voucher.  Only one taker!  I inquired and they were going to "shuttle" the passenger to Ontario airport (1-1.5 hr drive away) and put you on their last flight out to Sacramento.  Sounded pretty iffy at any price!  If you like to get bumped pick a flight that has another one behind it and arrive at the gate early and inquire.  Also since I had a very low boarding pass, they allowed me to check my carry on right at the gate.  When you are in that situation on a full flight it is better not to have to match up an overhead bin with likely seat mates.  You can pick the seat mate of your choice which I did.  It was right up front and passed over by many because there was no bin space.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 7, 2017)

funtime said:


> …If you like to get bumped pick a flight that has another one behind it and arrive at the gate early and inquire.


 Your best chances of getting a bump are to book at popular takeoff times and on popular travel days.  For example, on flights of up to two to three hours, mid- to late-afternoon departure on Friday will give your best chance of getting bumped.  Or course, that is probably also the flight that will have the highest ticket price - the airline knows that's a popular route. 

And that brings up a key point, if you are adjusting your travel to schedule to line up good fares, your chances of getting a bump go down significantly.  Airlines don't sell cheap seats on flights they think are likely to fill up.  If you see a cheap fare, it's cheap because the airline is trying to fill seats.


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