# Transferring ownership to a family member



## dfeetham (Jul 17, 2017)

I want to transfer ownership to a family member who owns Marriott timeshare.
I own at the surf club. Can I call Marriott to make the transfer or do I have to go through a lawyer to do so.


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## Hi I'm new here (Jul 17, 2017)

Do they want this timeshare?  Not everyone would consider it a "gift" because of the very high maintenance fees.  I just read an article about a recipient refusing a timeshare bequeathed to him in a will.


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## silentg (Jul 17, 2017)

Assuming they want the timeshare. You can contact LT Transfers. We have used them many times, very efficient and not expensive. http://www.lttransfers.com/
Silentg


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## tschwa2 (Jul 17, 2017)

If it was a US timeshare, I could tell you exactly what you need to do.  Since its Aruba, different procedures will apply.  You will need someone/thing more than just going through Marriott and the normal US transfer companies like LT probably won't be able to help but you can contact them just to see.


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## rickxylon (Jul 17, 2017)

I think you can just add their name to the deed for about $100. Got that info from a call to MVCI Owner Modifications a few months ago. I haven't started the process yet. They will send you the necessary forms and instructions.


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## dneveu (Jul 17, 2017)

Based on our exoerience, If you have a developer week and the transfer is made from parent to child then it will retain all original benefits.  If it is a developer week but transferred to a family member other than a child the original benefits will likely be lost. 

If it is a resale week than it does not matter.


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## m61376 (Jul 19, 2017)

dneveu said:


> Based on our exoerience, If you have a developer week and the transfer is made from parent to child then it will retain all original benefits.  If it is a developer week but transferred to a family member other than a child the original benefits will likely be lost.
> 
> If it is a resale week than it does not matter.


I think if it is an enrolled resale week, however, then the benefits of enrollment transfer to children as well.


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## kds4 (Jul 19, 2017)

m61376 said:


> I think if it is an enrolled resale week, however, then the benefits of enrollment transfer to children as well.


I also believe that is correct.


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## Dean (Jul 19, 2017)

dneveu said:


> Based on our exoerience, If you have a developer week and the transfer is made from parent to child then it will retain all original benefits.  If it is a developer week but transferred to a family member other than a child the original benefits will likely be lost.
> 
> If it is a resale week than it does not matter.





m61376 said:


> I think if it is an enrolled resale week, however, then the benefits of enrollment transfer to children as well.


I think it has to be gratis for the benefits to transfer.


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## hangloose (Jul 19, 2017)

dneveu said:


> Based on our exoerience, If you have a developer week and the transfer is made from parent to child then it will retain all original benefits.  If it is a developer week but transferred to a family member other than a child the original benefits will likely be lost.



Is this correct, for certain?   

Parent to Child is the only relationship accepted in order to keep original developer purchased benefits.  No Brother to Sister, or Uncle to Nephew?

I assume the only place this needs to be documented is on the Domestic External Transfer Form?


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## hangloose (Jul 19, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> If it was a US timeshare, I could tell you exactly what you need to do.



For U.S. Domestic timeshare, if doing yourself... is this the process?

Transferor Changes Deed In Respective State/County To Show Transferee Name
Transferor & Transferee Fill Out Marriott Domestic External Transfer Packet Form
No ROFR Required if "Gift" (Gratis).
Is it this simple, what else?

-


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## dneveu (Jul 19, 2017)

Yes in our experience it was documented on external transfer form. 

 Our experience:  Parents had 2 developer units and gave 1 to each kid.  Those retained full benefits.  Few years later my brother no longer wanted his unit. We listed proper relations on new transfer forms - between siblings.   Unit was transferred and Full benefits were denied as marriott said relationship must be parent to child to retain benefits.   Meant unit could not be traded for MR points and could not be enrolled in DC club as transfer was completed about 2 months after DC club start date.  While marriott could see all the history from the transfers in their systems they were firm that the last transfer between siblings released all rights per their contracts which allow only for parent to child transfers to retain rights.  

You may wish to check ownership documents or call MVCI owner services


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## SueDonJ (Jul 20, 2017)

hangloose said:


> Is this correct, for certain?
> 
> Parent to Child is the only relationship accepted in order to keep original developer purchased benefits.  No Brother to Sister, or Uncle to Nephew?
> 
> I assume the only place this needs to be documented is on the Domestic External Transfer Form?



Based on TUGger BocaBoy's extensive experience, I've also understood that parent-to-child is the only accepted relationship.  If I'm remembering correctly he talked about it in terms of "following bloodline."


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## pwrshift (Jul 20, 2017)

Don't taxation matters arise in a transfer or sale?


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## BocaBoy (Jul 21, 2017)

SueDonJ said:


> Based on TUGger BocaBoy's extensive experience, I've also understood that parent-to-child is the only accepted relationship.  If I'm remembering correctly he talked about it in terms of "following bloodline."


Since I am mentioned here, I will come out of "TUG retirement" for this post.  Sue is right about "following the bloodline."  It can also be grandparent-to-grandchild, but it has to be down the chain of bloodline.  It cannot be to a sibling or even up the bloodline, such as child-to-parent.  One other point to note.  Although I could never find this in any Marriott documents, MVCI has told me the transfer must be a "gift," not a sale, but that can be easily averted by having any exchange of money between the family members occur informally outside of the transaction transferring title.


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2017)

pwrshift said:


> Don't taxation matters arise in a transfer or sale?


Potentially gift taxes if it exceeds the limits and capital gains if sold for more than invested though that's unlikely in most cases.  



BocaBoy said:


> Since I am mentioned here, I will come out of "TUG retirement" for this post.  Sue is right about "following the bloodline."  It can also be grandparent-to-grandchild, but it has to be down the chain of bloodline.  It cannot be to a sibling or even up the bloodline, such as child-to-parent.  One other point to note.  Although I could never find this in any Marriott documents, MVCI has told me the transfer must be a "gift," not a sale, but that can be easily averted by having any exchange of money between the family members occur informally outside of the transaction transferring title.


Having a different terms than on the agreement to bypass ROFR is illegal in all states I know of where a deed is involved.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 21, 2017)

Dean said:


> Having a different terms than on the agreement to bypass ROFR is illegal in all states I know of where a deed is involved.


Not all resorts have ROFR and Marriott does not apply ROFR to this type of intra-family transfer, regardless of consideration.


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> Not all resorts have ROFR and Marriott does not apply ROFR to this type of intra-family transfer, regardless of consideration.


But wouldn't ROFR be applicable if it was actually a sale rather than a gift, for those resorts that have it.  Regardless, doing it under the table would be unethical and dishonest.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 22, 2017)

Dean said:


> But wouldn't ROFR be applicable if it was actually a sale rather than a gift, for those resorts that have it.  Regardless, doing it under the table would be unethical and dishonest.


No, ROFR is not applied to any top down bloodline transfers, so what is unethical or dishonest about it?  There is no tax to avoid, which is the key point.  The timeshare documents do not make the sale/gift distinction for DC enrollment eligibility purposes.  As I said earlier, some MVCI reps nevertheless say it has to be a gift but tell you how to make it a gift even if some  money changes hands.  There are also other good reasons to handle the money outside of the contract when it is with family you can trust, namely that closings are much simpler and cheaper.

Now back to my TUG retirement.


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## Dean (Jul 22, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> No, ROFR is not applied to any top down bloodline transfers, so what is unethical or dishonest about it?  There is no tax to avoid, which is the key point.  The timeshare documents do not make the sale/gift distinction for DC enrollment eligibility purposes.  As I said earlier, some MVCI reps nevertheless say it has to be a gift but tell you how to make it a gift even if some  money changes hands.  There are also other good reasons to handle the money outside of the contract when it is with family you can trust, namely that closings are much simpler and cheaper.
> 
> Now back to my TUG retirement.


Regardless, if you do it secretly and intentionally for this reason because it MIGHT or might not be a problem, it would be dishonest.


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## hangloose (Jul 23, 2017)

If a deeded week being gifted through parent/child is enrolled in the D.C. pts program, does that benefit also transfer to the child?  What if the child has existing MVC enrolled weeks?  What if they don't?


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## Dean (Jul 23, 2017)

hangloose said:


> If a deeded week being gifted through parent/child is enrolled in the D.C. pts program, does that benefit also transfer to the child?  What if the child has existing MVC enrolled weeks?  What if they don't?


My understanding from reading through the documents is that the paperwork states the benefits transfer to a child, that's it.  It doesn't specifically say it has to be gratis but the club will make the final rules and normally for these type situations, it does have to be gratis.  For ROFR you'd go back to the underlying POS for enrolled weeks and as I read it, ANY sale has to be noticed and is subject to ROFR and realistically any transfer would have ROFR.  Traditionally timeshares have automatically waived ROFR if it's immediate family and gratis.  So reading the info I have (older POS MGO) the 2 events (transfer of weeks & transfer of enrolled benefits) would be somewhat separate issues.  If one wanted to take the wording at face value, I suppose you could sell to a child, pass ROFR and the benefits might pass though I'm doubtful that would play out in real life since if Marriott decided not to allow it, fighting them would be too large of a mountain to climb.  The other caveat is if ROFR is required is legally one would have to put the actual terms agreed to in a contract.  Obviously this creates situations that can be manipulated but those could be criminal offenses as well as a test of one's character.

As for what happens if the child is already enrolled, I think you'd have to ask Marriott to be sure.  Extrapolating from this info, each resort would be handled differently based on whether it had ROFR or not.  I think it reasonable to assume the benefits would transfer to a child if the week were transferred.  Other questions would be whether they would combine them to the existing account or force them to be independent and whether a family member who didn't get the enrolled benefits could enroll again and under what circumstances.  What happens if a transfer happens to more than one person where one would meet the criteria and one would not such as a daughter and SIL or even a child and niece/nephew together.  As I read the enrolled paperwork, the grandchild is a flexibility not technically spelled out.  

Admittedly much of this opinion is from reading the wording on the enrolled documents and a single older POS though it also comes from a significant amount of experience with transfers and ROFR from points type systems with ROFR of some type or another.  I realize that sometimes the POS changes over time though normally not to be more restrictive to the masses for something like this and I realize that in practice sometimes thing are different than you'd think based on the technical/legal wording.


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## pwrshift (Jul 23, 2017)

I'm a single father and when I bought the last 4 of my 6 TS I had one child's name (all adults) put on the deed with mine as it was explained it would pass to them in survivorship without any problems.  Hope I'm correct.  Of course that was in the days of several thousand dollars for purchase and $400 MF.

However, I always thought my kids would have to buy (or sell) the other 2 TS but this thread suggests I can 'gift' them to my kids...I assume that has to be in my will or can it be worked out after my death?

I assume USA tax rules apply even thought I'm Canadian but haven't checked that out yet.


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## catharsis (Jul 24, 2017)

My plan is to add both our kids to the deeds as joint tenants moving forward, so all 4 of us will be owners, and theoretically we could do things like give Marriott LT platinum status to whichever kid is travelling?

I was also planning to transfer maybe one property a year to avoid any possible gift tax issues.

Anyone come up with any pressing reason not to do this (noting that I do not consider the timeshares 'assets' - but the 'club membership' is, to my mind).


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## Dean (Jul 24, 2017)

pwrshift said:


> I'm a single father and when I bought the last 4 of my 6 TS I had one child's name (all adults) put on the deed with mine as it was explained it would pass to them in survivorship without any problems.  Hope I'm correct.  Of course that was in the days of several thousand dollars for purchase and $400 MF.
> 
> However, I always thought my kids would have to buy (or sell) the other 2 TS but this thread suggests I can 'gift' them to my kids...I assume that has to be in my will or can it be worked out after my death?
> 
> I assume USA tax rules apply even thought I'm Canadian but haven't checked that out yet.


Did they combine them under your current account?


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## StevenTing (Jul 24, 2017)

What about the use of a Family Trust?  Couldn't you just name additional Trustees and Beneficiaries and bypass all of these challenges?  For example, what if I created the Steven Ting Vacation Family Trust and then assign ownership of all of my weeks to the trust.  I assume I can just keep adding and removing trustees and beneficiaries as time moves on.  When I pass, my kids can make adjustments to the trustees and beneficiaries.  I would assume that it would just be a notification change to Marriott about "Authorized Users" and the ownership would remain the same.

I bring this up because I'm going to meet with an attorney to draw up a family trust, but not specifically for the timeshares, but maybe I'll have that created now.


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## rylan (Jul 25, 2017)

So what about a developer week that was previously enrolled in the DC program, and if it is brother to brother?  I know it says full benefits for down bloodline only, however would this mean the DC enrollment of a developer week is 'lost' if it is transferred between siblings?


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## Dean (Jul 25, 2017)

rylan said:


> So what about a developer week that was previously enrolled in the DC program, and if it is brother to brother?  I know it says full benefits for down bloodline only, however would this mean the DC enrollment of a developer week is 'lost' if it is transferred between siblings?


That is my understanding


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## catharsis (Jul 25, 2017)

rylan said:


> So what about a developer week that was previously enrolled in the DC program, and if it is brother to brother?  I know it says full benefits for down bloodline only, however would this mean the DC enrollment of a developer week is 'lost' if it is transferred between siblings?


might be worth looking into whether you culd ADD your brother to your ownership rather than transferring to him.

i.e. change the deeds to become "tenants in common" and see do you still lose the benefits given you are still the original owner who enrolled?

or perhaps even ask Marriott what their position on that would be?


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## pwrshift (Aug 4, 2017)

I don't know if they combined them under my current account...I think it's correct on the deeds.



Dean said:


> Did they combine them under your current account?


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## Dean (Aug 5, 2017)

pwrshift said:


> I don't know if they combined them under my current account...I think it's correct on the deeds.


If you see them all under one sign on and can use the 13 month reservation rule, they are combined for purposes of this discussion.  In that situation you really may not need to go to the expense of changing the deed but it might get technical and it would likely be best to get them changed over at that time.  Of course they don't have to accept them either but the estate couldn't be closed until they were taken care of one way or another.  Hopefully that's a long time down the road for all of us.


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## pwrshift (Aug 5, 2017)

I see all 6 under the 13 month rule.  On 4 of the 6 deeds one child and I own them for rights of survivorship, but I do all the bookings for all 6...not even sure they could book theirs right now or if that just transfers to them upon my death.  The other 2 are in my name only...which probably means those 2 would have to be sold for estate settlement.

Brian


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## Dean (Aug 5, 2017)

pwrshift said:


> I see all 6 under the 13 month rule.  On 4 of the 6 deeds one child and I own them for rights of survivorship, but I do all the bookings for all 6...not even sure they could book theirs right now or if that just transfers to them upon my death.  The other 2 are in my name only...which probably means those 2 would have to be sold for estate settlement.
> 
> Brian


I'm not a lawyer Brian so YMMV.  I was hoping that would be your answer though.  Currently it'd likely only be an issue if the child listed on part of them were using the ones they're not on or were using an exchange though with a little planning and forethought, I doubt that'd be an issue either.  You'd likely either need to alert Marriott in general or the resort itself that someone else would be checking in.  For exchanges it really depends on how the II account is listed and if that child is not on the II account, the graciousness of the destination resort.  You may want to make sure they're listed on the II account to give more options and provide a smoother transition.

The child on the deeds could get their own signon and I presume they would only see the 4 in question.  IF something happens to you and as I understand it, they'd have several options.  They could sell all, update the deeds retaining the inherent rights/options since they're children, change the deeds to add others amount variations.  I won't get into the +/- of having adult children on a timeshare, that's a few threads unto itself.  DVC gets very strict on this subject, Bluegreen throws a blanket over the entire set of owners both from a usage and liability standpoint but I'm not quite sure where Marriott falls  on this other than the rights passing with transfer for ownership and the destinations program where it's child (likely grandchild) only to retain all rights.


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