# Diamond Resorts via ILX experience



## 8string (Oct 27, 2012)

Just got back from a week at Greensprings Va. resort which was very nice. It was our first outing since ILX sold us out to Diamond Resorts. So, we sat through what was supposed to be a 1 hr. owners update that turned into a 7 hr. marathon because we had not ever been to a conversion seminar (never got a notice of one). Turns out that our gold membership (biannual) at Los Abrigados resort and spa via ILX is only 4250 points and OMG - we are at the bottom of the barrel instead of being preferred members in ILX. We had a deeded contract at Los Abrigados that evidently isn't worth much more than the paper it was written on. We can't see all available weeks in DRI. We won't be included in any vested program, etc. We were told anything they could think of to get us to buy an upgrade. After 6 hrs. we even heard that our points would essentially be worth $1/point and could be used for air/hotel/car.  After reading through all the contract material we went back for some clarification and found that 8000 points would get us ~$650 toward airfare -WHOA! Way different than what we heard at the pitch talk.

It was a terrible experience. Cost us a day. Have cancelled the contract for upgraded points. Its everything we always hated about points. We bought ILX because it was NOT a points system but that obviously didn't work out in the long run.

Now, all I want to do is sell this package permanently.


----------



## AKE (Oct 27, 2012)

So if you own a deeded week then you can deposit it with RCI or other trading companies as before. There is no need to use DRI for anything or convert to their point system.


----------



## csxjohn (Oct 27, 2012)

AKE said:


> So if you own a deeded week then you can deposit it with RCI or other trading companies as before. There is no need to use DRI for anything or convert to their point system.



I think this is a membership in a vacation club and not a deeded timeshare from what I have been able to learn about ILX.

I would not believe what the sales people are saying and find out exactly what is owned through another source at DRI.


----------



## csalter2 (Oct 27, 2012)

*What do you own? Weeks or Points?*



wesreutter said:


> Just got back from a week at Greensprings Va. resort which was very nice. It was our first outing since ILX sold us out to Diamond Resorts. So, we sat through what was supposed to be a 1 hr. owners update that turned into a 7 hr. marathon because we had not ever been to a conversion seminar (never got a notice of one). Turns out that our gold membership (biannual) at Los Abrigados resort and spa via ILX is only 4250 points and OMG - we are at the bottom of the barrel instead of being preferred members in ILX. We had a deeded contract at Los Abrigados that evidently isn't worth much more than the paper it was written on. We can't see all available weeks in DRI. We won't be included in any vested program, etc. We were told anything they could think of to get us to buy an upgrade. After 6 hrs. we even heard that our points would essentially be worth $1/point and could be used for air/hotel/car.  After reading through all the contract material we went back for some clarification and found that 8000 points would get us ~$650 toward airfare -WHOA! Way different than what we heard at the pitch talk.
> 
> It was a terrible experience. Cost us a day. Have cancelled the contract for upgraded points. Its everything we always hated about points. We bought ILX because it was NOT a points system but that obviously didn't work out in the long run.
> 
> Now, all I want to do is sell this package permanently.




Based upon what you have written, it is difficult to determine what you have. Do you have a deeded property at Los Abrigados or do you have a points package. You mention both? 

Before you do any conversions, it is important that you make sure that you will get the full value of what you already have with the conversion. Make sure you check each of the seasons to be able to get same units in peak season with DRI that you could get with ILX. You should not have to pay more to get what you already can get.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 27, 2012)

Wherever you were in the pecking order at ILX is unchanged; you still are in that same position.  Whatever reservation rights you had in ILX are still intact. Whatever exchange company options you had before you still have.  

What you don't have are options with the non-ILX resorts in the DRI system. You didn't have them before DRI appeared, and you don't suddenly get access to them just because DRI appeared on the scene.  To get access to the DRI resorts you would need to make a purchase from DRI.

******

From your description it sounds that in your mind you are mixing ILX and DRI.  And the sales person probably aided and abetted that confusion because the sales person wanted you to think you were losing something by not upgrading. 

You need to keep the two systems separated in your thinking.


----------



## csalter2 (Oct 27, 2012)

*DRI could be converting...*



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Wherever you were in the pecking order at ILX is unchanged; you still are in that same position.  Whatever reservation rights you had in ILX are still intact. Whatever exchange company options you had before you still have.
> 
> What you don't have are options with the non-ILX resorts in the DRI system. You didn't have them before DRI appeared, and you don't suddenly get access to them just because DRI appeared on the scene.  To get access to the DRI resorts you would need to make a purchase from DRI.
> 
> ...



Steve, it is possible that DRI could have converted their points in ILX into DRI points. I had that happen when Sunterra bought Epic Resorts. I had 10,000 redweek points with Epic, but when Sunterra came and converted me to their SunOptions, it was for 8500 points in their system. I was still able to get a two bedroom for most of the year except for peak season. I did not catch that at the time and it hurt me as I was accustomed to going to Scottsdale for New Year's week every year for the Fiesta Bowl.  Sunterra automatically converted the points for Epic owners. I did not buy Sunoptions either. They converted on system to the other. Maybe DRI is doing that with ILX.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 27, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> Steve, it is possible that DRI could have converted their points in ILX into DRI points. I had that happen when Sunterra bought Epic Resorts. I had 10,000 redweek points with Epic, but when Sunterra came and converted me to their SunOptions, it was for 8500 points in their system. I was still able to get a two bedroom for most of the year except for peak season. I did not catch that at the time and it hurt me as I was accustomed to going to Scottsdale for New Year's week every year for the Fiesta Bowl.  Sunterra automatically converted the points for Epic owners. I did not buy Sunoptions either. They converted on system to the other. Maybe DRI is doing that with ILX.



They might rename the points, and they might possibly pro rata change the values to match them up with the rest of the DRI system. But I would expect that ILX as a system will operate the same as before and the same point values will land the same units within the ILX group as they did before.  DRI has been pretty consistent that way.


----------



## 8string (Oct 28, 2012)

csalter2 said:


> Based upon what you have written, it is difficult to determine what you have. Do you have a deeded property at Los Abrigados or do you have a points package. You mention both?
> 
> Before you do any conversions, it is important that you make sure that you will get the full value of what you already have with the conversion. Make sure you check each of the seasons to be able to get same units in peak season with DRI that you could get with ILX. You should not have to pay more to get what you already can get.



1. I own a biannual Gold week (2 bedroom) with ILX. I have a deed.
2. I am told by DRI that I have 4250 points yearly. That translates to 8500 point biannually which gives me access to my ILX 2 bedroom property every two years.
3. My understanding is that ILX no longer exists as an entity and I must book my week through DRI.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 28, 2012)

8string said:


> 1. I own a biannual Gold week (2 bedroom) with ILX. I have a deed.
> 2. I am told by DRI that I have 4250 points yearly. That translates to 8500 point biannually which gives me access to my ILX 2 bedroom property every two years.
> 3. My understanding is that ILX no longer exists as an entity and I must book my week through DRI.



I'm not familiar with the details of ILX, so bear with me here.

Prior to DRI entering the picture, what was your interface with ILX?  Specifically, were you only entitled to one week every other year at Los Abrigados?  Or did you have options to take your week at other ILX resorts, to split your full week into two partial week stays, or to save up unused time to use in a different year?


----------



## Bill4728 (Oct 28, 2012)

8string said:


> 1. I own a biannual Gold week (2 bedroom) with ILX. I have a deed.
> 2. I am told by DRI that I have 4250 points yearly. That translates to 8500 point biannually which gives me access to my ILX 2 bedroom property every two years.
> 3. My understanding is that ILX no longer exists as an entity and I must book my week through DRI.





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I'm not familiar with the details of ILX, so bear with me here.
> 
> Prior to DRI entering the picture, what was your interface with ILX?  Specifically, were you only entitled to one week every other year at Los Abrigados?  Or did you have options to take your week at other ILX resorts, to split your full week into two partial week stays, or to save up unused time to use in a different year?


I'm not sure what is going on with ILX but DRI just bought out my TS system too. Monarch Grand(MGV). DRI salemen have also been telling the MGV owners that they will have next to no DRI pts and need to "up-grade" their owner-ships by buying a lot more DRI points.  This is bull!  

All the MGV owner will continue to be able to use their MGV pts at the old MGV resorts in exactly the  same way they used them before DRI took over.

I'd guess that you will be able to use your every other year week at your deeded resort in the same way you have always used your week. 

Good Luck


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 28, 2012)

robcrusoe said:


> Deeded fixed weeks are certainly "safe."  Those in a Floating/Point systems may need to worry that as some ILX/MGV owners take the bait, DRI may find a way to strip the best of the Floats out for THE Club, leaving the floaters, those accustomed to using their ILX or MGV points for popular time, out in the dark.  Yes, there'll be an appropriate quota of points reservations out there, but will the traditional members really have what they had previously ?



To the best of my knowledge that has not been the situation at other resorts where DRI has taken over. In fact, since we joined the Club, I've actually found it harder to make reservations through the Club during the most popular times.


----------



## dougp26364 (Oct 28, 2012)

Bill4728 said:


> *I'm not sure what is going on with ILX but DRI just bought out my TS system too. Monarch Grand(MGV). DRI salemen have also been telling the MGV owners that they will have next to no DRI pts and need to "up-grade" their owner-ships by buying a lot more DRI points.  This is bull! *
> 
> All the MGV owner will continue to be able to use their MGV pts at the old MGV resorts in exactly the  same way they used them before DRI took over.
> 
> ...



Just as a FWIW item, Marriott recently developed a points based program. Original weeks owners weren't automatically converted into the system. We had to pay a fee to join. The points we get for our units aren't even enough to reserve our own unit at our home resort.

Needless to say, Marriott's own salesmen are telling weeks owners their original ownership is now worthless and we all need to buy more POINTS! 

Timeshare salesmen are timeshare salesmen. They're ALWAYS going to tell you the next big thing makes your old thing worthless and you must buy more, more, more!

What DRI salesmen are telling ILX and MGV club owners is nothing new under the sun. Owners reactions to what their being told is also nothing new under the sun. Salemen lie, the knee jerk reaction is anger and threats of law suits. 

The reality has always been that nothing has changed with the original terms of ownership. New ownership can't change original contracts unless the original developer put it in the contract that such changes can be made. If that wording is there, then it's the original developer one should be ticked off at as they're the one who left owners hanging out to dry.


----------



## 8string (Oct 28, 2012)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I'm not familiar with the details of ILX, so bear with me here.
> 
> Prior to DRI entering the picture, what was your interface with ILX?  Specifically, were you only entitled to one week every other year at Los Abrigados?  Or did you have options to take your week at other ILX resorts, to split your full week into two partial week stays, or to save up unused time to use in a different year?



I could take my time at any ILX resort (less than a dozen available) but Los Abrigados was far and away the nicest property and the one that we signed a deed for back in the early 2000's.


----------



## 8string (Oct 28, 2012)

8string said:


> I could take my time at any ILX resort (less than a dozen available) but Los Abrigados was far and away the nicest property and the one that we signed a deed for back in the early 2000's.



We also had 8 passport weeks that would allow us to book posted excess weeks for ourselves or for friends. Those passport weeks were for ILX properties or often for other properties that they had listed.


----------



## csalter2 (Oct 28, 2012)

*Los Abrigados is nice but...*



8string said:


> I could take my time at any ILX resort (less than a dozen available) but Los Abrigados was far and away the nicest property and the one that we signed a deed for back in the early 2000's.



If Los Abrigados was their nicest property then you will enjoy the DRI system. I was just at Los Abrigados last summer. The property is a nice one. A little tight and lean on parking, but a nice resort.  However, the units although spacious need refurbishing. The furniture was very dated. DRI will bring them up to DRI standards in time. I will then be happy to spend my points in Sedona there. 

I believe that ILX owners coming into system will like the additional choices they will have. They will be a like lot me when I cam into this system. I was very unhappy about the increase of fees, but happy about more options and refurbished units and upgraded properties.


----------



## csxjohn (Oct 28, 2012)

8string said:


> 1. I own a biannual Gold week (2 bedroom) with ILX. I have a deed.
> 2. I am told by DRI that I have 4250 points yearly. That translates to 8500 point biannually which gives me access to my ILX 2 bedroom property every two years.3. My understanding is that ILX no longer exists as an entity and I must book my week through DRI.





8string said:


> I could take my time at any ILX resort (less than a dozen available) but Los Abrigados was far and away the nicest property and the one that we signed a deed for back in the early 2000's.



It sounds like you are no worse off than before.  I'm not sure what your complaint is.

It sounds like the sales force is acting like the PCCs and telling you that what you have is worthless.


----------



## 8string (Oct 29, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> It sounds like you are no worse off than before.  I'm not sure what your complaint is.
> 
> It sounds like the sales force is acting like the PCCs and telling you that what you have is worthless.



My complaint is not with Los Abrigados. It is:
1. with the length of time we were held while they tried to convince us that we needed to upgrade.
2. finding out that with the points we currently have, we cannot even see the entire list of available properties thru DRI.
3. did I say that they kept us 7 hours??? even when we asked them to reschedule us when they got some of the information together?

My comments are just a warning about sitting through presentations as an owner, particularly if you are an owner whose timeshare has been converted to DRI.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 29, 2012)

8string said:


> 2. finding out that with the points we currently have, we cannot even see the entire list of available properties thru DRI.



It sounds as if you were expecting that when DRI took over, your reservation rights would suddenly expand to include all of the DRI resorts.  That's not the way that DRI works - nor almost any other timeshare system.

What happens is that you continue to have exactly what you had prior to the buyout.  If you want to receive additional benefits as a results of the buyout, such as having an expanded list of resorts into which you can reserve, you have to buy in to get those added privileges.  

****

So fi you like what you've had with ILX, then don't buy in.  If you want to have the added benefits of being part of the DRI Club, then you need to decide if what it would cost you to get into the DRI Club is worth what it will cost you to get in.

That second decision is not one to be made quickly - and certainly not in a sales office.  There are advantages and disadvantages.  If you spend some time reviewing DRI threads here and at ts4ms.com, you should be able to get a good grasp of what the nuances are and what your options are to to get into the system at the least cost, if that is what you decide you want to do.


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 29, 2012)

To the "OP,"  I agree seven (7) hours is a very long time to held for a sales pitch.

This is my opinion only.


----------



## Kal (Oct 29, 2012)

Actually, you may have less than what you started with.  Typically DRI will make the pitch to all members of the merged time share system.  If any of those members buy into the DRI system, DRI will then absorb that piece which was owned by the new member.

As an example, if the new member owned a unit/week, that unit/week would no longer be available to the owners of the former merged system.  Thus, there would be fewer units for the old owners to have access in that merged system.  A points system would work in similar fashion where there are fewer unit/weeks to select.


----------



## Kal (Oct 29, 2012)

pedro47 said:


> To the "OP," I agree seven (7) hours is a very long time to held for a sales pitch...


 
Sounds like there was a deal working that eventually fell through.  Did they at least provide a wonderful lunch and dinner during that 7 hours?  Probably no potty breaks either!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 29, 2012)

Kal said:


> Actually, you may have less than what you started with.  Typically DRI will make the pitch to all members of the merged time share system.  If any of those members buy into the DRI system, DRI will then absorb that piece which was owned by the new member.
> 
> As an example, if the new member owned a unit/week, that unit/week would no longer be available to the owners of the former merged system.  Thus, there would be fewer units for the old owners to have access in that merged system.  A points system would work in similar fashion where there are fewer unit/weeks to select.



Ken - the DRI Club can only reserve to the extent it has ownership of units.

To say that there will be less availability because now people need to compete with DRI to reserve units is like saying that there will be less availability because you and I and 100 others have now bought into the system as well and so the prior owners now need to compete with us to reserve units.

******

The potential problem isn't that DRI suddenly has inventory that can reduce availability.  The issue is if DRI games the reservation system so that the Club cherry picks the best inventory and leaves the non-Club members with the dregs of inventory.  

I haven't seen evidence of that happening in any other DRI resorts; in fact one data point from my personal experience is the reverse. In talking with some of the reservations management personnel inside DRI when working with my account, I know that there has been unreserved inventory available at the resort that I could not reserve because it was only available to non-Club members.


----------



## csxjohn (Oct 29, 2012)

8string said:


> My complaint is not with Los Abrigados. It is:
> 1. with the length of time we were held while they tried to convince us that we needed to upgrade.
> 2. finding out that with the points we currently have, we cannot even see the entire list of available properties thru DRI.
> 3. did I say that they kept us 7 hours??? even when we asked them to reschedule us when they got some of the information together?
> ...



You are right and I see it now.  I got distracted as the thread went on.

It is nice that you are warning others about your experience.

I would not have sat there that long myself but you were trying to get information.


----------



## 8string (Oct 29, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> You are right and I see it now.  I got distracted as the thread went on.
> 
> It is nice that you are warning others about your experience.
> 
> I would not have sat there that long myself but you were trying to get information.



"It sounds as if you were expecting that when DRI took over, your reservation rights would suddenly expand to include all of the DRI resorts. That's not the way that DRI works - nor almost any other timeshare system.

What happens is that you continue to have exactly what you had prior to the buyout. If you want to receive additional benefits as a results of the buyout, such as having an expanded list of resorts into which you can reserve, you have to buy in to get those added privileges."

This is evidently true. HOWEVER, nobody told us that when we were informed that DRI now owned our timeshare. The lack of information when these sellouts occur is appalling. Just another reason to keep informed by starting and participating in these forum discussions. Thanks, everyone, for your input. (BTW -lunch was a sandwich and chips - yippee).


----------



## Kal (Oct 29, 2012)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Ken - the DRI Club can only reserve to the extent it has ownership of units...


The actual example I'm referring to is DRI's purchase of Monarch.  In that case the existing MGV owners had the pick of MGV properties.  If some of the MGV owners bought into the DRI program, that left fewer MGV units available to MGV owners who did not go for the DRI pitch.  Thus, lower availability compared to pre-DRI take over because those people did not have access to DRI properties or the unsold MGV inventory.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 29, 2012)

Kal said:


> The actual example I'm referring to is DRI's purchase of Monarch.  In that case the existing MGV owners had the pick of MGV properties.  If some of the MGV owners bought into the DRI program, that left fewer MGV units available to MGV owners who did not go for the DRI pitch.  Thus, lower availability compared to pre-DRI take over because those people did not have access to DRI properties *or the unsold MGV inventory.*


*Unsold inventory.*  That's a difference.  Obviously if unsold inventory is being made available to owners there is going to be a decrease in availability. On the other hand, if unsold inventory is showing up in the owner pool and the developer isn't recouping the operating cost of that inventory, it's not the least bit surprising that developer would fail.  

Beyond that I don't see how the DRI Club making reservations based on its ownership is any whit different from any other owner making a reservation based on what it owns.

And I don't think there's any reason to fault DRI - or any other developer - for not putting unsold inventory available into the owner pool gratis.


----------



## dougp26364 (Oct 29, 2012)

Kal said:


> The actual example I'm referring to is DRI's purchase of Monarch.  In that case the existing MGV owners had the pick of MGV properties.  If some of the MGV owners bought into the DRI program, that left fewer MGV units available to MGV owners who did not go for the DRI pitch.  Thus, lower availability compared to pre-DRI take over because those people did not have access to DRI properties or the unsold MGV inventory.



This sounds a lot like salesman "scare-you-into-buying" speak. They say things like this to make you believe you're original ownership is/will be worthless. It's not correct.

DRI maintains the ratios so that owners can continue to reserve their units. If 50% convert (that's being very generous) then 50% of the inventory can be accessed by THE Club. 100% of the remaining 50% can be accessed by MGV club owners. It is not as if DRI will automatically reserve all the best invnentory, they can't. The ratio of available units for MGV owners remains the same. It's just that a portion of that inventory has been exchanged by MGV owners for the right to reserve other resorts in the DRI system. This is much like MGV owners depositing their weeks with I.I. for exchange. It does NOT effect MGV owners ability to reserve the units they've always been able to reserve in the past.

Salesmen will intentionally muddy the waters in an attempt to stir fear and use that fear to get owners to make another purchase. We've owned timeshare since 1998 and have seen this tactic used on us many times. It's never been factual and is something I've learned to ignore, no matter how compelling a salesmans story might appear. 

Give it time and you'll see what I'm talking about. It might be a difficult concept to wrap your brain around but, you haven't lost anything. You've only gained an option. It's to bad salemen feel the need to be less than honest when attempting to sell timeshare. It breeds distrust and disatisfied owners.

I once new a salesman that was selling the heck out of annuity contracts back when interest rates were around 10%. He'd always sell two contracts to a customer instead of one. When I asked him why he did that, his answer was it was easier to sell annuitys that earned 20% instead of 10%. In his mind and that of his customers, 10% + 10% = 20% return. Salesmen can twist any numbers to make you believe what they want to believe. The salesmen that want you to believe you MUST buy something to keep your ownership valuable are twisting the numbers and facts to fit their needs.


----------



## msutton33 (Dec 31, 2012)

*reservation limitations*

I’m trying to understand the reservation availability pool at Los A
As an example if there are:
             30% deeded owner
             10% non club points owners
             60% club owners
And if there are 1000 available weeks to reserve would the following be true:
	300 weeks are available to be reserved by deeded owner
	100 weeks are available to be reserved by non club points owners
	600 weeks are available to be reserved by The Club owners
Is this how it works?  
I am considering buying a deed week at Los A but I don’t want to have reservation availability problems.


----------



## Bill4728 (Jan 1, 2013)

msutton33 said:


> I’m trying to understand the reservation availability pool at Los A
> As an example if there are:
> 30% deeded owner
> 10% non club points owners
> ...


Yes in the simplest terms that is how it works. 

BUT remember that when the sold the unit the first time, a lot of the deeded owners likely bought the very best weeks of the year. SO for the high demand weeks 70% may be owned by the deeded week owners and of the low demand weeks only 5% may be owned by the deeded week owners. Which means that the 600 units available to the pt owners these may be the lowest demand weeks.


----------



## msutton33 (Jan 1, 2013)

*Thank You Bill*

How does it work if all the deeded weeks are floating?
What happens to reservation options if the 30% deeded weeks are floating??


----------

