# [ 2014 ] Cholesterol ?



## uop1497 (Dec 5, 2014)

I would like to know what is the best and fasted ways to lower bad cholesterol besides taking medication.

I was told by my doctor to eat Flax seed, Oatmeal and Psyllium daily. But unsure how much I should eat and if that will be enough .

If you know the best method, please share . Thank you


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## winnipiseogee (Dec 5, 2014)

Unfortunately the absolute best way to reduce cholesterol and improve overall cardiac health is also the hardest.  Minimum of 30 minutes but preferably an hour of reasonably vigorous exercise each day!  best of luck


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

You can lower your cholesterol by 20% or more in less than 30 days by following a high fiber vegan diet.  Exercise helps also.

I've lowered my total cholesterol from 200 to 160 by doing this, and have seen others do the same.  I've also been off my blood pressure medication for three years and have lost 35 pounds.  

The program I used was through CHIP (Complete Health Improvement Program).  Here's further information.  It does work. 

https://www.chiphealth.com/About-CHIP/about-chip/


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

winnipiseogee said:


> Unfortunately the absolute best way to reduce cholesterol and improve overall cardiac health is also the hardest.  Minimum of 30 minutes but preferably an hour of reasonably vigorous exercise each day!  best of luck



If you want to lower your cholesterol without meds, you've got to stop eating meat and dairy products.  Exercise will help some, but diet is the key.


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## csxjohn (Dec 5, 2014)

You don't have to stop eating all meat and dairy products to lower cholesterol but you will likely have to make some drastic changes to your diet.

My Cholesterol has always been OK but my weight crept after retirement and I asked my doctor for help.  He steered me toward a book written by a nutritionist, The F Factor.

Decreasing red meat and replacing it with turkey, fish and other sources of protein is one step.  Low fat dairy products are recommended and as mentioned above, exercise. 

Doctors usually like to prescribe meds because they get perks from the drug companies and most of their patients are too lazy to pursue a program to help themselves.

If you can't get help from your doctor, seek out a nutritionist.

It won't be easy but I will do everything I can before taking drugs to control something I can control without them.


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

> Decreasing red meat and replacing it with turkey, fish and other sources of protein is one step.




If you want to lower your cholesterol, you've got to cut down on the foods that contain cholesterol.  period.  That's the bottom line.  Study the amount of cholesterol in fish, meats, and dairy products and then look at the labels of the other foods you're eating - cholesterol is one of the items listed.  Then you'll make progress.  Anything you can improve on here will help lower your numbers.  You don't have to go whole hog on this, but the more you do, the more your numbers will drop.

Fish and turkey (and chicken) contain the same amounts of cholesterol as the red meats.  They are lower in fat though and that's a plus for losing weight, but generally do not lower your cholesterol.  The weight loss however, will lower your numbers, so you could look at it from that angle I guess, as long as you're actually losing and keeping off the weight.  

Vegetables, fruits, and most of the high fiber foods (oatmeal, rice, beans, and other whole grain foods) contain zero or minimal cholesterol.  The key for me was adding the fiber to the diet.  If you don't add fiber, you probably won't feel satisfied throughout the day.

There are still special occasions when I eat meat, but I can tell you I don't miss it,  and I feel full all day long plus I eat as much as I want.  That is the honest truth.


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## csxjohn (Dec 5, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> If you want to lower your cholesterol, you've got to cut down on the foods that contain cholesterol.  period.  That's the bottom line.  Study the amount of cholesterol in fish, meats, and dairy products and then look at the labels of the other foods you're eating - cholesterol is one of the items listed.  Then you'll make progress.  Anything you can improve on here will help lower your numbers.  You don't have to go whole hog on this, but the more you do, the more your numbers will drop.



I agree completely with the above but the statement below did not seem right so I did a quick check.  Here's what I found.

1 Oz roasted turkey breast-31 mg cholesterol

1 Oz 85/15 ground beef-77 mg cholesterol

And don't forget that eating fatty fish such as salmon will help increase your good cholesterol significantly.



> Fish and turkey contain the same amounts of cholesterol as the red meats.  They are lower in fat though and that's a plus for losing weight, but generally do not lower your cholesterol.  The weight loss however, will lower your numbers, so you could look at it from that angle I guess, as long as you're actually losing and keeping off the weight.
> 
> Vegetables, fruits, and most of the high fiber foods (oatmeal, rice, beans, and other whole grain foods) contain zero or minimal cholesterol.  The key for me was adding the fiber to the diet.  If you don't add fiber, you probably won't feel satisfied throughout the day.
> 
> There are still special occasions when I eat meat, but I can tell you I don't miss it,  and I feel full all day long plus I eat as much as I want.  That is the honest truth.



Ace has hit the key, I believe, and that is adding fiber to your diet.  Protein is needed but where you get it can make a difference in your overall health.


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Here's what I found.
> 
> 1 Oz roasted turkey breast-31 mg cholesterol
> 
> 1 Oz 85/15 ground beef-77 mg cholesterol



John, it sounds like we're mostly in agreement here.  But you can't compare one of the leanest cuts of turkey with ground beef.  If you want apples to apples then you'd have to compare ground turkey with ground beef.  Or choose one of the leaner beef cuts to compare with the turkey breast.  

Overall, turkey is one of the "better" meat choices, but it still contains a high amount of cholesterol, especially when you compare it against some alternatives in a plant based diet.  Again, it all depends on how drastic the OP wants to reduce their numbers.  Any amount of lowering is good.


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## pedro47 (Dec 5, 2014)

eat oatmeal daily in the morning. no bacon on the side.


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## Sandy (Dec 5, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> eat oatmeal daily in the morning. no bacon on the side.



NO BACON??!!??    Surely you jest.


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## TSPam (Dec 5, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> I would like to know what is the best and fasted ways to lower bad cholesterol besides taking medication.
> 
> I was told by my doctor to eat Flax seed, Oatmeal and Psyllium daily. But unsure how much I should eat and if that will be enough .
> 
> If you know the best method, please share . Thank you



OK,
I am going to sound like the crazy woman here but you all have it wrong. There is absolutely no evidence that dietary cholesterol has any effect on your cholesterol levels. Did you know that your brain is made out of mostly cholesterol? If you cut out too much fat you get dementia.

What you want to do is reduce inflammation. To do this you have to remove sugar and bad fats like seed oils (corn, canola) from your diet. For many people gluten and all grains are also inflammatory. AND you need to increase the good fats like coconut oil, grass fed butter, olive oil, avocado, grass fed or pastured red meats. 
We have been sold a lie by the cholesterol lowering drug companies.  For women especially we should be increasing our cholesterol level as long as it isn't by eating commercial ice cream.

And for exercise you want to do high intensity short burst exercise. Long cardio produces inflammation and actually is bad for you. Some weight training to keep your bones strong and you are done in 15 minutes. Your body then keeps at the high metabolic level for many, many hours afterward.


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

TSPam said:


> OK,
> I am going to sound like the crazy woman here but you all have it wrong. There is absolutely no evidence that dietary cholesterol has any effect on your cholesterol levels. Did you know that your brain is made out of mostly cholesterol? If you cut out too much fat you get dementia.



Everyone is free to believe what they want.  The experts disagree with you.  Here's a quick source from WebMD.  I get my blood checked every year because our group medical plan requires it.  I've seen the effects of eating meats and the effects of not eating meats, exercising vs. not exercising.  What I know for sure is that diet was the number one factor.  My overall cholesterol reading is 162 with no meds.  My overall cholesterol number before changing my diet was 203.  You can't convince me of what you've stated here.

Also, alzheimers has been linked to high cholesterol as one of the major risk factors. 

From WebMD...



> Saturated fat and cholesterol in the food you eat increase cholesterol levels. To lower your cholesterol level try to reduce the saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet.



http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/guide/cholesterol-basics?page=2


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## isisdave (Dec 5, 2014)

Most of my reading on this subject indicates that the best methods for having low cholesterol are:

1. Choose your parents carefully.

2. Reduce saturated fats. (Fiber is good if it makes you not eat because you feel full; some think is absorbs some cholesterol so it can be excreted. But I think it's a more mechanical than chemical influence. If you eat emotionally, as most of us do, eating fiber in addition to junk is not likely to help.)

3. Exercise

====

Although this is not a subject I've kept up on recently, I am pretty sure my earlier research indicates that cholesterol you eat is not a _major _factor in the level of your blood cholesterol. Almost all of the cholesterol in our bodies is made in our liver from fat.


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## TSPam (Dec 5, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Everyone is free to believe what they want.  The experts disagree with you.  Here's a quick source from WebMD.  I get my blood checked every year because our group medical plan requires it.  I've seen the effects of eating meats and the effects of not eating meats, exercising vs. not exercising.  What I know for sure is that diet was the number one factor.  My overall cholesterol reading is 162 with no meds.  My overall cholesterol number before changing my diet was 203.  You can't convince me of what you've stated here.
> 
> Also, alzheimers has been linked to high cholesterol as one of the major risk factors.
> 
> ...




here is another point of view:
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12228/cholesterol-leads-to-alzheimers-nonsense.html


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

TSPam said:


> here is another point of view:
> http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12228/cholesterol-leads-to-alzheimers-nonsense.html



Here's the article referencing the study by the LA Times and conducted by three major universities... again, there are so many conflicting opinions on all this, everyone can come to their own conclusions.   I know exactly what has worked for me and other individuals that were involved in the CHIP program I mentioned earlier - eating a plant based diet will lower your cholesterol numbers.  There is absolutely no doubt about that in my mind.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/30/science/la-sci-cholesterol-alzheimers-link-20131230


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## VacationForever (Dec 5, 2014)

To reduce the bad cholesterol, we should not worry about the cholesterol in food, as I learned in a cholesterol class.  Effect of cholesterol in food is miniscule when compared to saturated fats.  You should focus on cutting down on food with saturated fats.  Say, if you want to have beef, have sirloin instead of rib eye or short ribs.  Exercise improves the good cholesterol but bad cholesterol is food related.  There is a genetic factor in all of these.

If you don't mind food supplement, try Triple Omega or Fish Oil pills.  It works.  

From my own experience, I combine exercise which increases my good cholesterol, reduce consumption of saturated fat (yes I still eat some butter and red meat but in moderation) which reduces the bad cholesterol, and take one pill of triple omega a day and my cholesterol has dropped 60 points and I am no longer in the borderline range.  My good friend has really high cholesterol and is an exercise fanatic (marathon runner) and was at 280+.  She started taking one tablet (recommended on the bottle is 2 a day) of triple omega and it dropped to 230 after a month.  She just increased to 2 a day and will take her cholesterol again in the next couple of months and will let me know the outcome.


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

sptung said:


> To reduce the bad cholesterol, we should not worry about the cholesterol in food, as I learned in a cholesterol class.  Effect of cholesterol in food is miniscule when compared to saturated fats.  You should focus on cutting down on food with saturated fats.  Say, if you want to have beef, have sirloin instead of rib eye or short ribs.  Exercise improves the good cholesterol but bad cholesterol is food related.  There is a genetic factor in all of these.



Maybe I'm missing something.  You say in the first sentence that we should not worry about food, and then you go on to mention cutting out foods in your diet.  That is contradicting your first sentence.  I feel that TSPam did the same in her post.  I agree on your points about cutting out saturated fats.  If you look at the labels of those items containing saturated fats you'll see that they contain high amounts of cholesterol.

I appreciate this discussion thread because it has been a topic that has greatly intrigued me over the past few years.


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## rapmarks (Dec 5, 2014)

I take Omega 3 Fish Oil daily, and my cholesterol was always in the 180 range.   My last set of blood tests were disastrous. Every thing was way off.  My cholesterol went to 268, my ldl was really high, and my HDL was really high but my ratio was 3.2.  My blood sugar went up over 100,  my white blood count was high, my iron was really low.  I went in to go over the test results, and mentioned a pain in my side.  turned out I had diverticulitis, and got treated for that,   I am hoping that was the cause of all the high numbers, but maybe it is wishful thinking.  see doctor again in two weeks.


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## VacationForever (Dec 5, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something.  You say in the first sentence that we should not worry about food, and then you go on to mention cutting out foods in your diet.  That is contradicting your first sentence.  I feel that TSPam did the same in her post.  I agree on your points about cutting out saturated fats.  If you look at the labels of those items containing saturated fats you'll see that they contain high amounts of cholesterol.
> 
> I appreciate this discussion thread because it has been a topic that has greatly intrigued me over the past few years.



Cholesterol and saturated fats are 2 separate measurements in food.  Seafood has high cholesterol and low saturated fats.  A fatty cut of red meat's cholesterol isn't any higher in cholesterol but very high in saturated fat.  So ignore the cholesterol measurement in food and just stay focused on saturated fat.  Choosing seafood over red meat generally is a healthier diet even though cholesterol measurement in seafood is often higher than red meat.  Hope this makes it clearer for you.


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## ace2000 (Dec 5, 2014)

sptung said:


> Cholesterol and saturated fats are 2 separate measurements in food.  Seafood has high cholesterol and low saturated fats.  A fatty cut of red meat's cholesterol isn't any higher in cholesterol but very high in saturated fat.  So ignore the cholesterol measurement in food and just stay focused on saturated fat.  Choosing seafood over red meat generally is a healthier diet even though cholesterol measurement in seafood is often higher than red meat.  Hope this makes it clearer for you.



I see your point, thanks!  I know for me, cutting saturated fats is definitely part of the equation also - as a vegan diet suggests.  For awhile, I didn't worry about that so much and focused on cutting meat only.  I now believe both are important.  And I'm definitely not an expert, I can only speak for what has worked for me in getting my overall level down to the 160s from slightly above 200.

Dropping 60 points on your numbers is impressive!  On the example you provided about your friend that exercised, I discovered the same.  Exercise alone did nothing for my cholesterol counts, it was the diet that made the difference.  

I also take the Omega 3/Fish Oil supplements.


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## uop1497 (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank everyone for good advice .

I have lost 30 pounds so far and doing exercise daily . Need to loose another 20lbs, not sure how long it takes

I don't know if I can eat vegan meals 100%, but will try 1 vegan day / a week first . 

How do you check cholesterol level in fresh fish ?


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## csxjohn (Dec 5, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> Thank everyone for good advice .
> 
> I have lost 30 pounds so far and doing exercise daily . Need to loose another 20lbs, not sure how long it takes
> 
> ...





There are charts all over the internet telling you what's in which foods.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 5, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Doctors usually like to prescribe meds because they get perks from the drug companies and most of their patients are too lazy to pursue a program to help themselves.
> 
> It won't be easy but I will do everything I can before taking drugs to control something I can control without them.


There is lots a talk about Doctors getting stuff from the drug companies but it is really not true. Is a new pen likely to get a Doctor to recommend a med that isn't right for you? NO WAY! 
The truth is the cholesterol drugs work really really good. I saw a guy's level drop from 400 to 200 in 2 weeks! 


> most of their patients are too lazy to pursue a program to help themselves.


Couldn't agree more.  It is better to do it yourself but if you will not or can not, cholesterol meds work well. 

Good Luck


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## laurac260 (Dec 5, 2014)

TSPam said:


> OK,
> I am going to sound like the crazy woman here but you all have it wrong. There is absolutely no evidence that dietary cholesterol has any effect on your cholesterol levels. Did you know that your brain is made out of mostly cholesterol? If you cut out too much fat you get dementia.
> 
> What you want to do is reduce inflammation. To do this you have to remove sugar and bad fats like seed oils (corn, canola) from your diet. For many people gluten and all grains are also inflammatory. AND you need to increase the good fats like coconut oil, grass fed butter, olive oil, avocado, grass fed or pastured red meats.
> ...



Yea!  You WIN!  My husband finally lowered his bad cholesterol below 100 for the first time in his life.  Even cholesterol meds couldn't get his LDL below 100.  Not crazy at all.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 5, 2014)

I agree with TSPam--what we were told in the past about fighting cholesterol is about as solid as the low-fat diet.  If you look at charts which map the frightening increase in diabetes you'll notice a gradual, then steep, incline from the 80's, after the low-fat diets became popular and the population was encouraged to ramp up grain intake (i.e., wheat).

But I agree we've not seen widespread adoption of this POV--even my beloved PCP balked at my low-carb lifestyle when I first started going to her, even though I had excellent cholesterol & blood sugar readings.  Nowadays, I think more of the medical community is accepting low/good-carb diets.  (Which, BTW, incorporate a very generous portion of the diet to veggies/good carbs.)

My own DH refuses to accept this, so he's now on cholesterol meds and feels that allows him to indulge in all the great processed carbs he's always loved--bring on the pasta!


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## momeason (Dec 5, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> If you want to lower your cholesterol, you've got to cut down on the foods that contain cholesterol.  period.  That's the bottom line.  Study the amount of cholesterol in fish, meats, and dairy products and then look at the labels of the other foods you're eating - cholesterol is one of the items listed.  Then you'll make progress.  Anything you can improve on here will help lower your numbers.  You don't have to go whole hog on this, but the more you do, the more your numbers will drop.
> 
> Fish and turkey (and chicken) contain the same amounts of cholesterol as the red meats.  They are lower in fat though and that's a plus for losing weight, but generally do not lower your cholesterol.  The weight loss however, will lower your numbers, so you could look at it from that angle I guess, as long as you're actually losing and keeping off the weight.
> 
> ...



Eating cholesterol does not affect your cholesterol much. That theory has been debunked. The three biggest culprits in raising your bad cholesterol.
1.Sugar, including simple carbohydrates
2. Trans fats
3. Saturated fats

Increasing your exercise can raise your good cholesterol and improve your ratio or good to bad which is very important. Eating more fiber is also very important in lowering your bad cholesterol.

SUGAR is a huge enemy to your heart health.


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## ace2000 (Dec 6, 2014)

momeason said:


> Eating cholesterol does not affect your cholesterol much. That theory has been debunked. The three biggest culprits in raising your bad cholesterol.
> 1.Sugar, including simple carbohydrates
> 2. Trans fats
> 3. Saturated fats



My formula is simple... a vegan diet as much as possible.  A vegan diet focuses on foods that have zero or minimal cholesterol, and when you choose that type of diet you are also eating foods low in saturated and trans fat.  I mentioned the importance of fiber in feeling full and satisfied through the day.  To me, all are important factors in a diet.  You all can quibble about the importance of one vs the other, but that diet works and it's very simple to follow the requirements.  The OP asked how to reduce their cholesterol and that's my response.  

As I've mentioned several times on TUG (including my original post 3 years ago) - currently my cholesterol is down to near 160 (from slightly above 200), I've lost 35 pounds since I've started, and I haven't taken blood pressure medication for over 3 years.  

Good luck to the OP!  It is definitely possible to lower your cholesterol through your diet.


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## laurac260 (Dec 6, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> My formula is simple... a vegan diet as much as possible.  A vegan diet focuses on foods that have zero or minimal cholesterol, and when you choose that type of diet you are also eating foods low in saturated and trans fat.  I mentioned the importance of fiber in feeling full and satisfied through the day.  To me, all are important factors in a diet.  You all can quibble about the importance of one vs the other, but that diet works and it's very simple to follow the requirements.  The OP asked how to reduce their cholesterol and that's my response.
> 
> As I've mentioned several times on TUG (including my original post 3 years ago) - currently my cholesterol is down to near 160 (from slightly above 200), I've lost 35 pounds since I've started, and I haven't taken blood pressure medication for over 3 years.
> 
> Good luck to the OP!  It is definitely possible to lower your cholesterol through your diet.



Your information sounds good on paper but much of it is incorrect.  To say that a vegan diet has no or minimal cholesterol means you don't really understand what cholesterol is.  If you are eating true vegan diet you are consuming zero cholesterol.  Period.  Cholesterol is made by animals and only exists in animals.  To say A vegan diet is low or no trans fat means you also don't understand what trans fat is. Trans fat that exists naturally is only produced by animals, however the majority of trans fat is a lab created.  A vegan would also have to avoid all processed foods that contain lab created trans fat.  Being a vegan does not necessarily mean that none of the foods you consume will contain trans fat. If you eat only whole natural foods than that can be true.
We are starting to learn that "avoiding consumption of saturated fat automatically leads to low cholesterol" it's pretty much a myth.

As I said before my husband was on statins and avoided red meat completely, and still had marginally high cholesterol.  He just assumed it was because it runs in his family.

Now we eat red meat whenever we want, however it is only free range grass fed beef.  We also eat a lot of olive oil, coconut oil, whole fat, non homogenized milk, raw nuts, eggs come from local free range farm fed chickens, stuff like that.  We also eat salads nearly every day, loaded with kale spinach beans tomatoes and peppers, and we make our own dressings every day, no more store-bought dressings.  He is off statin medications and has been for over year.  His LDL is finally below 100.  Our knowledge of nutrition and proper nutrition is in its infancy.  We have so much to learn.  I finally had to come to terms with everything I learned in medical dietetics back in the 90s is wrong.  The food science and chemistry doesn't change, but our understanding of what we think we should be eating needs to be turned on it's ear.


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## ace2000 (Dec 6, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Your information sounds good on paper but much of it is incorrect.  To say that a vegan diet has no or minimal cholesterol means you don't really understand what cholesterol is.  If you are eating true vegan diet you are consuming zero cholesterol.  Period.  Cholesterol is made by animals and only exists in animals.  To say A vegan diet is low or no trans fat means you also don't understand what trans fat is. Trans fat that exists naturally is only produced by animals, however the majority of trans fat is a lab created.  A vegan would also have to avoid all processed foods that contain lab created trans fat.  Being a vegan does not necessarily mean that none of the foods you consume will contain trans fat. If you eat only whole natural foods than that can be true.
> We are starting to learn that "avoiding consumption of saturated fat automatically leads to low cholesterol" it's pretty much a myth.
> 
> As I said before my husband was on statins and avoided red meat completely, and still had marginally high cholesterol.  He just assumed it was because it runs in his family.
> ...



LOL - ok.  It's good to hear another point of view with some personal experience mixed in.  I said "zero" or "minimal" cholesterol because it is next to impossible to go through the day with absolutely "zero" cholesterol in your complete diet.  Trust me, I understand what "vegan" is.  I took a 6-week course on what a vegan diet contains.

For example, I eat whole grain toast.  My bread does contain minimal dairy products in it.  Does that mean I can't say I eat a vegan diet because I choose to consume a couple of pieces of bread each day?  Nonsense.

Again, I'm not getting into the petty debates that some want to focus on concerning diet and choices.  I think it's great your husband found something that works.


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## ace2000 (Dec 6, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> As I said before my husband was on statins and avoided red meat completely, and still had marginally high cholesterol.



I mentioned earlier our company requires blood work to done each year if we want the full discount on our health coverage.  Plus when I donate blood, I've been able to see the effects of certain choices pretty clearly.  They mail me a listing of my numbers then.  

One of the things I discovered was the importance of not eating cheese and other dairy products - which is what a vegan diet suggests.  I learned that cutting out meat and fish helped my numbers a lot and then cutting out the dairy helped even more. 

My LDL numbers went from 125 at the beginning of the CHIP program down to 87 two months later.


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## csxjohn (Dec 6, 2014)

Bill4728 said:


> There is lots a talk about Doctors getting stuff from the drug companies but it is really not true. Is a new pen likely to get a Doctor to recommend a med that isn't right for you? NO WAY!
> The truth is the cholesterol drugs work really really good. I saw a guy's level drop from 400 to 200 in 2 weeks!
> Couldn't agree more.  It is better to do it yourself but if you will not or can not, cholesterol meds work well.
> 
> Good Luck



There is more at play than a few trinkets.  The drug companies spend many many dollars getting their dugs prescribed by the doctors.  


We're talking expensive dinners, tix to sporting events and expensive gifts to doctors and administrators  in a position to influence what their practice prescribes.

Once advertising of drugs was permitted, the doctors now also have patients hounding them to prescribe drugs they may not really want to prescribe.  The docs are getting pressure from both ends now.


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## artringwald (Dec 6, 2014)

I agree with those that said exercise is most important.

Both my grandfathers died of heart attacks. My father had a triple bypass. I’m 65, overweight and have a strong preference for the food groups of salty, greasy, cheesy, and beer. You’d think I’d be a good candidate for a heart disease. Last month my doctor wanted me to get a CT heart scan. More than 95% of men my age so some amount of blockage. I got a perfect score of 0, absolutely no blockage. I suspect the reason is that since I was young I've been able to find ways to exercise that I enjoy. If you don’t enjoy it, you’re certainly not as likely to keep doing it. Due to getting injured too often, I stopped playing volleyball and softball, but I still enjoy racquetball, tennis, biking, and swimming.

My advice: find an activity you like and exercise, exercise, exercise.


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## easyrider (Dec 6, 2014)

Some people just need a pill. I was on crestor for about 4 years and right off the get go my good cholesterol went up to about 70 and my bad cholesterol went down to about 180. My triglycerides were also now readable but still in the very high range.

After 6 months everything blood was somewhat good. It wasn't until a blood guy told me that maybe I should lay off the white rice that things really changed. This year we started doing the vitamix dealio with alot of spinach drinks. This seemed to make a difference for me and now Im off the pills. So white rice and unbleached flour products are on the occasional list as is sugar, bread, pop, red meat and milk. 

The good list includes alot of fruit and spinach via smoothies. We are using liquid iodine in our smoothies that the only result for me so far is I haven't been sick since starting.

But really, get a pill until you can slowly make the changes, imo, is the best way to adjust these numbers.

Bill


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## Big Matt (Dec 6, 2014)

I would ask a very different question which is....

Does it really matter?  High cholesterol isn't bad necessarily.  Your doctor should be telling you why it is important to reduce it.  Also make sure you understand that it is the ratio of good to bad that is important.  

Finally, ask yourself:  Do you exercise, do you eat healthy, do you watch your alcohol intake.  If the answers are all yes then you are probably okay.  If you are really worried then get an heart scan to see if arteries are blocked.  If they are clear then you are fine.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 6, 2014)

This is my opinion only, so it perhaps doesn't mean much. But over the years they have been preaching to cut back on saturated fat, red meat, and other high cholesterol foods. However, more and more people are taking these pills than ever.

It isn't the natural whole foods, even if high in cholesterol or saturated fat that are bad. IMO it is our ever increasing diet consisting of processed carbohydrates.

So sure, going to a plant based diet will help. Though, cutting out the red meat may not be the cause of better blood test results. One likely also improved their overall diet and cut out processed carbohydrates. Causation vs correlation.


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## TSPam (Dec 6, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> This is my opinion only, so it perhaps doesn't mean much. But over the years they have been preaching to cut back on saturated fat, red meat, and other high cholesterol foods. However, more and more people are taking these pills than ever.
> 
> It isn't the natural whole foods, even if high in cholesterol or saturated fat that are bad. IMO it is our every increasing diet consisting of processed carbohydrates.
> 
> So sure, going to a plant based diet will help. Though, cutting out the red meat may not be the cause of better blood test results. One likely also improved their overall diet and cut out processed carbohydrates. Causation vs correlation.



Yes, Exactly!


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## optimist (Dec 7, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> There is more at play than a few trinkets.  The drug companies spend many many dollars getting their dugs prescribed by the doctors.
> 
> 
> We're talking expensive dinners, tix to sporting events and expensive gifts to doctors and administrators  in a position to influence what their practice prescribes.
> ...



I don't know where you are getting your information but this kind of thing has been illegal for many years. 
If you think your doctor would compromise your health just to enrich himself then you should change doctors.


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## bogey21 (Dec 7, 2014)

artringwald said:


> I’m 65, overweight and have a strong preference for the food groups of salty, greasy, cheesy, and beer. You’d think I’d be a good candidate for a heart disease. Last month my doctor wanted me to get a CT heart scan. More than 95% of men my age so some amount of blockage. I got a perfect score of 0, absolutely no blockage.



I don't think there is any question that heredity has something to do with it.  I am 80 and about 20 years ago I had a catheterization because of some heart issues I was having at the time.  The night after the procedure the Doctor who had performed it called me with the results.  

He said something like you are 5%, 5% and 10% blocked.  I asked if that was good or bad.  His response was that we (the Medical Profession) start worrying when you exceed the 90% level.  I asked if I should change my eating habits.  His answer was that as far as cholesterol and artery blockage was concerned, no.  Understand this was 20 years ago.  Thinking my have changed. 

George


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## cotraveller (Dec 7, 2014)

Most recent blood test results from earlier this year:

Total cholesterol:  151
LDL:  63
HDL:  70

That's from a combination of exercise, diet and daily Lipitor and Zetia.  Those numbers are not a one time result, they have been similar for the past 7 years.  Why is there such a resistance to drugs that work?


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## bogey21 (Dec 7, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> Once advertising of drugs was permitted, the doctors now also have patients hounding them to prescribe drugs they may not really want to prescribe.  The docs are getting pressure from both ends now.



I think advertising is a bigger problem today than Doctors getting incentives from the drug companies to prescribe drugs.  Just one man's humble opinion.

George


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## easyrider (Dec 7, 2014)

cotraveller said:


> Most recent blood test results from earlier this year:
> 
> Total cholesterol:  151
> LDL:  63
> ...



YUP !!! 

Some people who have family history of heart attacks, strokes and clogged arteries should really be watching these numbers. 

Bill


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## ace2000 (Dec 7, 2014)

Big Matt said:


> I would ask a very different question which is....
> 
> Does it really matter?  High cholesterol isn't bad necessarily.



Yes, I believe it's bad.  But, there are definitely varying "expert" opinions on the question which only makes it more confusing for someone wanting to know for sure.  And then even worse are the people that believe in that logic and do nothing at all about their poor diet choices, all because someone told them high cholesterol is ok.

I heard in my class that each 10% drop in your cholesterol counts causes a corresponding drop in your risk of heart disease.  I also heard that your total cholesterol goal should be 160 and not the 200 level which seems to be prominent today.

But then it's amazing what people "hear" about cholesterol and we've seen countless examples of that in this thread.

I believe high cholesterol is bad and I personally don't like taking any medications.  I'm willing to let you and everyone else believe what you want, everyone gets to make up their own minds and I don't have the facts to convince you otherwise.


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## ace2000 (Dec 7, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> There is more at play than a few trinkets.  The drug companies spend many many dollars getting their dugs prescribed by the doctors.
> 
> 
> We're talking expensive dinners, tix to sporting events and expensive gifts to doctors and administrators  in a position to influence what their practice prescribes.
> ...



You're absolutely correct John.  Doctors are still being influenced with gifts from the drug companies.  There have been changes in the rules over the last five years or so, but the drug companies still bend the rules.  Much of the "giving" is now done through speaking fees and "educational" conferences. 

There has been a recent change to expose this behavior and the drug companies are being forced to make their giving more public.  Here's a link to news source on that.



> That's because nearly 95 percent of U.S. physicians accept gifts, meals, payments, travel and other services from companies that make the drugs and medical products they prescribe, according to the New England Journal of Medicine. This has been a common practice for decades, and studies show it affects doctors' prescribing decisions. But for the first time, patients will soon be able draw back the curtain.
> 
> *Starting in September the federal government will make available an exhaustive online database of payments to U.S. physicians and hospitals, under a section of the health-care overhaul passed in 2010. The measure, known as the Sunshine Act, requires most makers of drugs and medical supplies to report all payments, gifts and other services worth $10 or more that they provide to health professionals.
> *
> "I think every patient out there should know who actually is paying their doctor," says Paul Thacker, a fellow at Harvard University's Safra Center for Ethics. "The one thing we know is that money changes behavior and people tend to respond to who is giving them money."



http://www.denverpost.com/smart/ci_26133440/sunshine-act-will-reveal-drug-companies-giving-gifts


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## csxjohn (Dec 7, 2014)

optimist said:


> I don't know where you are getting your information but this kind of thing has been illegal for many years.
> If you think your doctor would compromise your health just to enrich himself then you should change doctors.



It's coming straight from the horse's mouth.  A family member is the director of health system and we discuss this frequently.



ace2000 said:


> You're absolutely correct John.  Doctors are still being influenced with gifts from the drug companies.  There have been changes in the rules over the last five years or so, but the drug companies still bend the rules.  Much of the "giving" is now done through speaking fees and "educational" conferences.
> 
> There has been a recent change to expose this behavior and the drug companies are being forced to make their giving more public.  Here's a link to news source on that.
> 
> ...



That's some good info and as everyone can see, simply reporting what they give doesn't mean they aren't going to give and many things will continue to go unreported.


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## Big Matt (Dec 7, 2014)

Just to clarify about my post.....it is the artery blockage that is the problem.  High cholesterol and blockage don't always correlate.  Most artery blockage is due to inflammation caused by things like toxins in the blood stream.  The cholesterol becomes more sticky with inflammation.  If you don't have artery blockage and you are getting older (over 50) you probably aren't going to have blockages so taking the medication is useless.  It is like taking allergy medicine if you don't have allergies.




ace2000 said:


> Yes, I believe it's bad.  But, there are definitely varying "expert" opinions on the question which only makes it more confusing for someone wanting to know for sure.  And then even worse are the people that believe in that logic and do nothing at all about their poor diet choices, all because someone told them high cholesterol is ok.
> 
> I heard in my class that each 10% drop in your cholesterol counts causes a corresponding drop in your risk of heart disease.  I also heard that your total cholesterol goal should be 160 and not the 200 level which seems to be prominent today.
> 
> ...


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## optimist (Dec 7, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> It's coming straight from the horse's mouth.  A family member is the director of health system and we discuss this frequently.
> .



The majority of cholesterol lowering drugs are available generically. In particular Lipitor. (Atorvastatin) Unless you're being prescribed Crestor or  Livlao,  there is no incentive for a doctor to prescribe you a generic cholesterol lowering drug except to lower the risk of cardiovascular disease.


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## ace2000 (Dec 7, 2014)

Big Matt said:


> Just to clarify about my post.....it is the artery blockage that is the problem.  High cholesterol and blockage don't always correlate.



You probably need to clarify further.  Artery blockage is caused by cholesterol plaques in your bloodstream.  So they definitely do correlate.  Whether you believe it's caused by eating cholesterol in your diet or not is where some of the experts differ.


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## VacationForever (Dec 7, 2014)

momeason said:


> Eating cholesterol does not affect your cholesterol much. That theory has been debunked. The three biggest culprits in raising your bad cholesterol.
> 1.Sugar, including simple carbohydrates
> 2. Trans fats
> 3. Saturated fats
> ...



I will add to it that it is carbohydrates that we all should limit, not just sugar.  All carbohydrates turn into sugar in the body.  Complex carbohydrates turn into sugar more slowly but they still become sugar in the body.  It is not a matter of processed carbohydrates or not.  Our bodies need carbohydrates to generate fuel but excess carbohydrates do bad things as the pancreas goes into overdrive and produce lots of insulin to get the sugar absorbed into the body which turn into fats.  Pancreas has limited life/insulin and as my doctor and a dietician put it, limit the use of it and you will die before becoming diabetic.  It is a matter of whether we become diabetic first or die first.  Don't forget that sweet and tropical fruits (oranges, water melon, cantaloupe) are high in sugar.  Limit the intake of fruits too.  Berries are great, lots of anti-oxidants and lower in sugar/carbohydrates.  In a diabetic class which I attended, the instructor said there should not be such a thing as a diabetic diet. It is a diet that we all should be all if we do not wish to become diabetic.  They all make sense to me.  

I am not diabetic, yet, as I call it.  But certainly I intend to keep it that way through food choices and exercise regimen.


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

sptung said:


> I will add to it that it is carbohydrates that we all should limit, not just sugar.  All carbohydrates turn into sugar in the body. .



I eat a lot of carbohydrates since I focus on a vegan diet.  My glucose levels have drifted up and down but have generally held steady both before and during these past 3 years up to this point.  If I got close to the cutoff point I'd probably start focusing on that more, but it's always been in the good range.  

If I cut out the meat in my diet, I have to get full from something.  So I eat a lot of high fiber items and some have high carbs - oatmeal, flax, breads (whole grain), nuts, potatoes, legumes, pastas (whole grain), smoothies, fruits and vegetables.  And the good news is that I eat a ton and don't go hungry, and another major plus is that I don't have to count points or monitor what I eat.  

There's no way I'd be able to get through my day if I didn't eat a lot of carbs.  I also exercise for about an hour and a half a day (on average), so I'm sure that helps too.


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

There's been some focus here in this thread on saturated fats and their effect on reducing cholesterol.  Here is an article on a Canadian study that has been referenced by several mainstream news sources and I found it interesting.

Please don't read this wrong way.  I definitely focus on getting rid of the saturated fats too.  

*High Cholesterol? Diet Low In Saturated Fats Isn't Best Strategy*



> If you have ever been ordered to get your cholesterol down, you may have been told to adopt a diet low in saturated fat. But new research suggests simply limiting saturated fat may not be the best bet for cutting cholesterol. Adults who ate a diet rich in nuts, soluble fiber, soy and plant sterols saw a far greater drop in low-density lipoprotein, or "bad" cholesterol, than those who followed a low-saturated fat plan.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23/high-cholesterol-diet_n_934360.html


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

duplicate post


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## Big Matt (Dec 8, 2014)

I completely agree with you.  But....my post said that high cholesterol doesn't always correlate with blockages.  

Yes, cholesterol is what causes the blockage, but not everyone with high cholesterol has blockages.  It is caused by genetics, inflammation, and other factors.  

My points are very simply:

Don't just take medicine because you have elevated cholesterol.  Work with your doctor to see if it is necessary.  Many doctors just prescribe without doing a full diagnostic including a heart scan or even a stress test.
Get a heart scan if you or your doctor think you or may be at risk for blockages
If you don't have a blockage and show no reason to be concerned, then don't take anti-cholesterol medicine.

Makes sense, right?



ace2000 said:


> You probably need to clarify further.  Artery blockage is caused by cholesterol plaques in your bloodstream.  So they definitely do correlate.  Whether you believe it's caused by eating cholesterol in your diet or not is where some of the experts differ.


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

Big_Matt, I see what you're trying to say but I don't completely agree with you. 

High cholesterol is a risk factor of heart disease, just as smoking, high blood pressure, or being overweight are risk factors.  When you have high cholesterol in your blood it is a serious risk factor for the process of clogging your arteries (atherosclerosis).  Does everyone with high cholesterol have a problem with atherosclerosis?  No, you're right some can actually get away with the high counts.  That doesn't mean that we should disregard high cholesterol though.  

Your advice applied to a smoker would be similar to telling them that they don't have to worry about quitting until they get a heart scan or stress test telling them they have a problem.  You can't always rely on the tests.  There have been numerous reported cases of a clean stress test and the heart attack coming soon afterwards.  Plus the fact that these tests are very expensive for some.  

Therefore I don't agree with your advice here, which if I understand it correctly - seems to be to wait until you know you have a problem for sure before taking the medication.


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## TSPam (Dec 8, 2014)

Hi,

Here is another piece of information

http://blog.drbrownstein.com/statins-cause-brain-dysfunction/


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

TSPam said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is another piece of information
> 
> http://blog.drbrownstein.com/statins-cause-brain-dysfunction/



Thanks Pam.  For me, I don't like taking any medications unless I have to.  One of the reasons I chose to drastically change my diet was because I was taking high blood pressure meds and wanted off.  I asked my doctor how I could get off the meds and he told me that I could lose 20-30 pounds and that would probably do it.  Well after five years of trying, I was not making any permanent head way.  Whatever I lost was quickly gained back.  He mentioned nothing about what I was eating.  I was motivated though and found a path that works for me - a plant based diet and I haven't had a prescription filled for anything in three years.


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## bogey21 (Dec 8, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> One of the reasons I chose to drastically change my diet was because I was taking high blood pressure meds and wanted off.  I asked my doctor how I could get off the meds and he told me that I could lose 20-30 pounds and that would probably do it.



Your doctor was right (at least in my case).  About 7 months or so ago I decided to lose weight just to feel better.  One of the things that happened is that I was able to cut my blood pressure medication from 100 MG daily to 25 MG.  Another thing is that I took a stress test after going from 195 lbs to 165 lbs.  My cardiologist told me it was the best stress test results for me in the last 10 years.

George


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## VegasBella (Dec 8, 2014)

Diet:
- increase fiber
- decrease cholesterol and saturated fat

Exercise:
- increase aerobic exercise (walking, running, etc)

Personally, I'm vegan so I consume no dietary cholesterol. I also limit saturated fat and eat plenty of fiber but I don't restrict calories, sugar, other fats, etc. I'm a little thick around the middle but that's it. All blood tests come back healthy. A few weeks ago I checked my cholesterol and it was 129.


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

I think you're right George.  It has worked for me too.  I will admit there was a time when  I had one of my total cholesterol measurements back up in the 190s - which was a lot higher than normal for me.  This was during a time when I went backwards on my diet and knew I wasn't eating right.  I was still exercising consistently though and keeping the weight off.  Even though I wasn't eating right, my blood pressure still remained in the good range and I based that solely on my exercise habits.  My triglycerides were also the best and lowest I'd ever recorded, again even though I wasn't eating right (higher meat and dairy products in my diet).  

The bottom line for me - exercise seems to be the major influence on my blood pressure readings and diet seems to be the major influence on my cholesterol levels.  IMO, both are important for total health.  

I don't know if any of this makes sense or not.  Again, just based on experience, I don't claim to be an expert on these things.  I am definitely still learning.


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## ace2000 (Dec 8, 2014)

VegasBella said:


> Diet:
> - increase fiber
> - decrease cholesterol and saturated fat
> 
> ...



VegasBella, I'm curious - how do you increase fiber in your diet?  I try to eat vegan as much as possible myself, and it took me awhile to figure out how really important a high fiber diet is.  I think it's the key to losing weight and  for keeping off my weight loss.  I have no idea exactly how much I get now, but I have definitely increased quite a bit over the last year.

P.S. I'll add that IMO, high fiber is the key to successfully remaining on a vegan diet.  There is no way I'm going to survive on mostly salads.  I really feel that making better choices on fiber has helped me stay the course.


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## persia (Dec 9, 2014)

Coming from a metric country where cholesterol levels should be less than 5, the first time I saw an American doctor and got a number in the 100s I though my blood vessels must be pumping lard...


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## bogey21 (Dec 9, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> VegasBella, I'm curious - how do you increase fiber in your diet?



I don't know if this is pertinent or not but here goes anyway.  Because I am on a blood thinner I cannot afford rectal bleeding which used to be a problem for me.  To ensure this doesn't happen I take two small doses of Konsyl (a fiber supplement similar to Metamucil) daily.  The question I don't know the answer to is "Does a fiber supplement have the same impact on cholestrol as fiber in one's diet"?

George


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## isisdave (Dec 9, 2014)

persia said:


> Coming from a metric country where cholesterol levels should be less than 5, the first time I saw an American doctor and got a number in the 100s I though my blood vessels must be pumping lard...



I've always wondered why the universal medical community can't get together on this. They're both metric, of course. The US version, mg/dL, measures the WEIGHT of cholesterol in a deciliter (0.1 liter) of blood; the rest of the world measures the NUMBER of cholesterol molecules in a full liter.

The molecular weight of cholesterol is about 386 g/mol, and factoring in the 0.1 factor for liters to deciliters conversion explains why the US number is roughly 40 (actually 38.6) times as big.


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## ace2000 (Dec 9, 2014)

bogey21 said:


> The question I don't know the answer to is "Does a fiber supplement have the same impact on cholestrol as fiber in one's diet"?



I'd love to see an accredited study on this question.

From what I've heard they do work for lowering cholesterol, though not as good as getting it from real food.  I'd be curious if fiber supplements give you the same sense of fullness that I feel when I eat real fiber foods?  That would be my concern because that's one of the biggest benefits of fiber for me.

Have you looked into smoothies?  Seriously, you can pack a lot of fiber in those and they taste great!  Fiber ingredients you may want to add would be flax, chia, and/or hemp.  I'm not sure why your condition would prevent you from those types of fiber sources.  I've got a good recipe that my wife makes that I'll try and post later.


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## ace2000 (Dec 9, 2014)

The BEST (and it's healthy and rich in fiber) smoothie recipe

1 1/2 cups of rice milk fortified with calcium/B12 (or almond milk, or soy milk)
1/2 cup uncooked rolled oats
2 ripe bananas, cut into chunks
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/2 cup frozen mixed berries (strawberry and blueberry work great)
1 1/2 tablespoon chia seeds
2 tablespoons flaxseed meal (Bob's Red Mill 100% whole ground)
8 ice cubes

Combine all ingredients in a blender
Blend until smooth and serve immediately

It'd be great to see some other healthy recipes...


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## ace2000 (Dec 9, 2014)

That recipe is for two servings.

And one more tip... copy and paste that recipe into the calorie count web site to get a full nutritional analysis.  That last recipe contains 16.8 grams of fiber per serving which makes it an excellent meal replacement.

http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/recipe_analysis.php


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## uop1497 (Dec 10, 2014)

I saw my Dr today . Here is an update

Dr order a stress test . I still having some problem with my right ankle, not sure how the stress test can be done yet. Still have two more weeks before the test. Hopefully, my ankle will completely heal by that time.

She also order a chest X-Ray. I have EKG test done today as well. Maybe the EKG result will serve as baseline

She has not mentioned or advise me to take cholesterol medication . I think she waits for all test results come out. 

I am having abdominal pain so I stop taking Psyllium powder. Unsure if this is the cause of my abdominal pain.

I will know more about my heart condition when all the test is done. I am still worried a lot about my bad cholesterol . Please keep sharing your experience so that I can learn more from you. 

Thank you for reading


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## ace2000 (Dec 10, 2014)

uop1497, good luck on getting your problems resolved!  And don't be afraid to challenge or ask for clarification on anything you've read here.  And my other advice is to get regular blood work done and find out what works for you.  The blood tests are relatively cheap and if you can't afford those, then just donate blood.  Most should mail you your cholesterol numbers back when you do.  

To your health!


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## ace2000 (Dec 13, 2014)

uop1497 said:


> I am having abdominal pain so I stop taking Psyllium powder. Unsure if this is the cause of my abdominal pain.



I had never heard of Psyllium powder before, but now I see that it's a high fiber item.  I recall that in the beginning of the program I started three years ago, that they did warn our class about the switch to a high fiber diet.  They also gave us a specific recommended diet to start the program with (called the CHIP jump start).  I aim for at least 30g of fiber though, instead of their recommendation of 18g.

Anyway, here's a link to some good information about starting that type of plan.  (I don't know anything about the web site, it just has some information that coincides with what I heard). 

http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/high_fibre/digestion.htm



> Some people find that excessive wind, bloating and even constipation can occur if they suddenly start to eat a lot more fibre, so to prevent this it’s important to introduce fibre-rich foods gradually. This gives your body a chance to get used to them and adapt accordingly. Dietary fibre acts a bit like a sponge in the gut and absorbs water to increase the bulk and softness of the stools, helping to ensure they’re eliminated easily from the body. Therefore, as you increase your intake of fibre, it’s also important to increase your fluid intake. If you don’t drink enough, then constipation may result.
> 
> Health guidelines recommend adults should have, on average, 18g of dietary fibre a day. WLR’s nutrition summary on the food diary page gives details of fibre intake so it’s easy enough to check whether you’re having enough. Good sources of fibre include wholegrain breakfast cereals and breads, wholewheat pasta, brown rice, jacket potatoes, peas, beans, lentils, fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Ultimately, it’s a good idea to eat a range of different fibre-rich foods rather than always opting for the same few. But when you first start to increase your fibre intake, I suggest you make one change at a time, for example, swapping white bread for wholemeal bread, or cornflakes for branflakes. Once your body has got used to this change, you can introduce another one. Hopefully, this will help to prevent the digestive problems you’ve experienced in the past. If they continue, however, I suggest you see your GP for advice


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## winger (Nov 18, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> I eat a lot of carbohydrates since I focus on a vegan diet.  ...I also exercise for about an hour and a half a day (on average), so I'm sure that helps too.



I've read studies where those who eat too much calories yet stay at good weight by exercising the calories off off are not doing their bodies good.  The analogy is putting tons of miles on a car...


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## artringwald (Nov 19, 2015)

winger said:


> I've read studies where those who eat too much calories yet stay at good weight by exercising the calories off off are not doing their bodies good.  The analogy is putting tons of miles on a car...



I certainly wouldn't recommend the Heavy Fuel Diet. 

"Heavy Fuel" by Dire Straits

Last time I was sober, man I felt bad
Worst hangover that I ever had
It took six hamburgers and scotch all night
Nicotine for breakfast just to put me right
'cos if you wanna run cool
If you wanna run cool
If you wanna run cool, you got to run
On heavy, heavy fuel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEUw1t8RcZ0


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## ace2000 (Nov 19, 2015)

winger said:


> I've read studies where those who eat too much calories yet stay at good weight by exercising the calories off off are not doing their bodies good.  The analogy is putting tons of miles on a car...



There might be some truth to that.  All I know is that five years later, I no longer take any prescriptions and I weigh about 40 pounds less than when I started.  I run at least 25 miles a week (which currently includes a 10 mile run every Sunday).  I ride my bike at least 75 miles a week (to and from work).  I do a group weightlifting class twice a week.  Plus I have a stand up desk at work and stand on my feet all day.  I can definitely say that I feel better now than I did five years ago, but I'm sure that I'm overdoing it.  I also know that what used to wipe me out at the end of the week, is nothing now.  My body has adapted to the stress.

The nice thing about exercise and diet is that everyone gets to figure it out on their own.  I know what has worked for me.


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## VegasBella (Nov 19, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> VegasBella, I'm curious - how do you increase fiber in your diet?  .



Fruits, veggies, and beans/lentils/peas all have fiber.


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## Egret1986 (Nov 19, 2015)

*Wow!  Fantastic!*



ace2000 said:


> There might be some truth to that.  All I know is that five years later, I no longer take any prescriptions and I weigh about 40 pounds less than when I started.  I run at least 25 miles a week (which currently includes a 10 mile run every Sunday).  I ride my bike at least 75 miles a week (to and from work).  I do a group weightlifting class twice a week.  Plus I have a stand up desk at work and stand on my feet all day.  I can definitely say that I feel better now than I did five years ago, but I'm sure that I'm overdoing it.  I also know that what used to wipe me out at the end of the week, is nothing now.  My body has adapted to the stress.
> 
> The nice thing about exercise and diet is that everyone gets to figure it out on their own.  I know what has worked for me.





You're not going to be "dinged" by me for what you're doing.

Here's to you and your health!


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## ace2000 (Nov 19, 2015)

Egret1986 said:


> You're not going to be "dinged" by me for what you're doing.
> 
> Here's to you and your health!



Thanks!  The only way you'll know if my plan was unsuccessful is if and when I stop posting!


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