# TUG Trade Tests- Any Benefit to Conducting New Tests?



## Dani (Jun 6, 2006)

I was just wondering.  Is there any benefit to conducting new trade tests here on TUG?  Have we basically analyzed everything that there is to be analyzed into the ground?    Anyone up to doing new RCI and II tests?

  The last mass trade tests conducted here on TUG  were awhile ago.  There has been a more recent test which was conducted on the SA board, but not any general trade tests.  Just asking.  I thought about this as I just directed a newbie to our past trade tests which are can be found on the "Sightings" board as I think that it is essential for any newbie seeking to understand trade power to study these tests.  

  Any thoughts?


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 6, 2006)

*Timeshare Trade Tests -- What Is The Point?  What Was The Point?*

OK, I do not shy away from the likelihood that I myself might be a few french fries short of a happy meal in the understanding department -- & 1 symptom of that is not understanding timeshare trade testing. 

I mean, shucks, I deposit my timeshare, I see what's available for exchange, & I take it if I like it & I let it go if I don't.  And if I don't like what's there right now, I check again later, & so on & forth right on down the line. 

Don't get me wrong -- I get plenty of vicarious enjoyment of my timeshares even when I'm stuck sitting at home in front of Old GlassFace looking at TUG & RCI & Yahoo, Etc. 

What I don't understand, even after a few years now of energetic TUG participation, is the fun or the utility of timeshare trade testing.  I mean, what's up with that -- the testing, I mean, not my not understanding about testing.  
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## PerryM (Jun 6, 2006)

*Not needed is my answer*

As someone who spent probably 100+ hours doing trading tests, the same result can be generated by simply comparing rental rates for any set of timeshares.  Throw in a coin flip and you will have a very good approximation of a trade.

Supply and demand make a HUGE difference for trading power and this can be approximated by a coin flip.  Two identical weeks/units deposited a minute apart will have the second one result in a lower trading power – there is already one unit unmatched and this is an increase in supply; i.e. lower trading power.  If the first one is snapped up by an existing search then the second one should have the first’s trading power too.

I personally think that the exchange companies just monkey around with the trading power figures to maximize their exchange fees – trying to make sense out of a secret and corrupt system is like trying to read tea leaves.

Put up a super powerful unit and you will see fewer possible exchanges than a less powerful unit – how do you use this as a foundation and arrive at any reasonable conclusion?  Throw in the 24 day invisibility periods like Marriott exclusive rights and your second building block makes the outcome of any such tests very questionable.  How about an area, like Florida, being excluded from a Florida exchanger?  Now we have a complete shambles and anything but a very thinly defined test can mean anything. 

I recommend less exchanging and more renting – the rent you get for your unit is real trading power and the rent you can negotiate also represents real trading power – why put a 3rd party exchange company who’s sole purpose is to make money for their stockholders.


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## Judy (Jun 6, 2006)

Trading power can and does change over time.  I think it's time for another trade test.  I can't participate in RCI because I'm letting my membership expire  
But I'll be happy to participate in an II trade test as long as it isn't next week when we'll be in New Orleans without an internet connection.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 6, 2006)

I think it is time for another trade test.  I'm up for it.  I would like to compare the trade test against the rental data to test Perry's hypothesis.


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## king1 (Jun 6, 2006)

Someone(like me) who is actively buying weeks can make good use of trade test results.  I'll participate with what I have on deposit: one Dik and two CO summer weeks.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 6, 2006)

*Sorry I'm Such A Dumbo -- I Still Don't Get It.*

Even if we TUG folks could set up & carry out timeshare trade tests with exquisite precision & verifiable accuracy, I'm pretty sure when it comes right down to it that I still have to see what my particular banked week(s) or points (or both) can pull for some particular time when I want to stay at somebody else's timeshare -- & then take it or leave it once I see what's available. 

I don't think I can fine-tune the _Dream Book_ in any useful way. 

Timeshare test-exchanges only work in the abstract, right?  (That is, they're hypothetical or something like that.) 

Actual timeshare exchanges -- ones that you can plan on actually using & going to on vacation -- involve finding out what's available in real time, no?  (That is, irrespective of any test-exchange results.) 

That being the case, why even bother with test trades? 
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## PerryM (Jun 6, 2006)

*I'm in*

BB,

Great, I'll do the work on the renting side - I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Now for the ground rules... I'll make mine up as I go along. (Just kidding)

Might I suggest that Marriott's compare to Marriotts only - the 24 day Marriott window in II is a devil of a beast to compensate for if a non-Marriott goes for a Marriott. (This on 6/6/6)


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: I'm in*



			
				PerryM said:
			
		

> BB,
> 
> Great, I'll do the work on the renting side - I'm looking forward to the challenge.
> 
> ...



LOL.  I didn't mean it as a challenge.  Just a test of a hypothesis to see if your theory is correct.  Because then, we don't need to do trade tests in the future.

I wonder what type of correlation exchanging has with rentals.


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## PerryM (Jun 6, 2006)

*Ohh*

BB,

Oh, well I'll try to look up as many "exchanges" as possible and dig up the rental rates - I'm curious if my hypothesis (hippopotamus?) is correct.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2006)

Once upon a time, many people here on TUG considered trade tests a lot of fun.  I don't think anyone thought of them as an exact science...or of a replacement for the actual searching you needed to do with your own weeks.  But it was a fun way to get a general idea of how various resorts and weeks compared to one another.

I think the "Golden Age" of trade tests on TUG may be past, however.  The reason I say this is that TUGGERS are much less open than they used to be.  A few years ago, most people were happy to talk about how well their weeks traded. There were all sorts of posts about the great trade power of various resorts.

That has changed.  Now most people prefer to keep it quiet when they own resorts with exceptional trade power.  In fact, if you do talk about a resort which trades well, other owners at the same resort are likely to post and/or email you telling you to keep your mouth shut.  Times change.

Steve


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 6, 2006)

*I Guess We Missed The Golden Age Of Openness.*




			
				Steve said:
			
		

> TUGGERS are much less open than they used to be.  A few years ago, most people were happy to talk about how well their weeks traded. There were all sorts of posts about the great trade power of various resorts.


The Golden Age must already have been over by the time we signed up with TUG. 

I say that because, after we signed up, TUG folks were warned against saying anything about any outstanding trades they got for depositing South African timeshare weeks lest RCI find out about it & put the kibosh on it. 

I was a newbie back then, so I went along with that cautionary advice, even though I didn't really understand it.  Shucks, it was an RCI exchange, so RCI already knew all about it -- what week was deposited, what week got exchanged into, the whole 9 yards from start to finish.  Keeping mum on TUG did nothing to keep it secret from RCI. 

Now, if what folks really meant was not to brag about great South Africa timeshare trades while vacationing at a luxury USA timeshare resorts exchanged into via South African timeshare depoisits, then that I could understand.  No sense getting people all riled up over hearing about other folks' outstanding timeshare exchange bargains -- specially if those who got all riled up had paid full freight for their timeshare weeks that the South Africa exchangers got to use, via RCI exchange, for next to nothing. 

Who knows?  Maybe the full-freight crowd would get so steamed that they would demand that RCI _do something_ ! 

Now, RCI might not want to do anything that would slow down those timeshare-week deposits or decelerate the flow of those exchange fees coming in -- but still & all it would be only prudent not to get the full-freight folks all riled up needlessly. 

Anyhow, by the time we got into TUG (The Chief Of Staff & I), the word was out:  _Don't Brag About Great Trades_ -- not at the resorts, not on TUG, not anywhere. 

So we didn't -- & we don't. 

So much for openness.   So much for the Golden Age. 

But we don't mind.  We still get plenty of enjoyment out of our timeshares & out of TUG. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## PerryM (Jun 6, 2006)

*There is a loud silence!*

Since the vast majority of our “exchanges” are in US Dollars (Rent them out and rent cheap RCI weeks, or whatever) we have gotten into the habit of just looking at the prices asked for in www.RedWeek.com and www.MyResortNetwork.com and find out exactly what weeks command in the rental market and it's easy to judge great resorts.  Granted, a non rated resort might not show up and you can’t draw any conclusions but many GC’s and 5-Stars are listed.  www.VRBO.com also has many timeshare weeks up for rent.

Of course, you can just fool yourself and pretend that $1,500 week you bought with a MF of $350 is a Marriott and feel better.  You will find many exchanges for similar units in the exchange companies.

I do agree that folks don’t seem to brag about fantastic exchanges anymore – if that’s because they are wary of the exchange companies or fellow owners or RCI has done a super job of renting out those GC’s and SC’s I would have to just guess.


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## JLB (Jun 6, 2006)

Given the classaction suits and all the bitching and moaning about Points and rentals and so forth, it might be interesting to replicate previous tests.  

If we could have previous participants with exactly the same weeks as in previous tests and then search exactly the same areas exactly the same time before check-in dates, that would be as meaningful, or as less a waste of time, as anything.

Perhaps the most meaningful tests are when a new person gets together with an experienced person, one who understands the trading power of what they own, and the two of them do some comparisons.  That is the best thing a new person can do if they are interested in trading power.

Big public tests can easily become brag-fests, with only a few at the top being happy.  What's cool about that?


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## Dani (Jun 6, 2006)

Steve said:
			
		

> I think the "Golden Age" of trade tests on TUG may be past, however.  The reason I say this is that TUGGERS are much less open than they used to be.  A few years ago, most people were happy to talk about how well their weeks traded. There were all sorts of posts about the great trade power of various resorts.
> 
> That has changed.  Now most people prefer to keep it quiet when they own resorts with exceptional trade power.  In fact, if you do talk about a resort which trades well, other owners at the same resort are likely to post and/or email you telling you to keep your mouth shut.  Times change.
> 
> Steve



  Steve,

  This is my concern.   Many of us take for granted what we now know about trade power.  Before the mass trade tests that were conducted and the Sightings board here on TUG, much was a mystery.   Indeed, until we conducted the first mass II trade test, much about how II trade power worked was a mystery.    Now people want to keep the trade power of their weeks a secret.   People forget that it is as a direct result of people sharing information publicly that they came by many of their great weeks and finds.  It's a catch 22.   


  Alan- yes...you missed the Golden Age.  As I said above, many take for granted what is by now common knowledge about trade power. Most of us can state certain facts about trade power with authority as a direct result of these past trade tests.   That was not always the case.

  I again wonder if we have now gleaned enough information about trade power to make having mass trade tests useless.   They were a great help to many of us in the past.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2006)

Hi Dani,

I'm well aware of your concern...and it is a legitimate one.  I realize that a lot of my knowledge...and that of others who have been around for a while...has been acquired through public posts and trade tests.  Yet the trade tests we have are now old, and information isn't traded freely like it used to be.  

Today, a new TUGGER pretty much has to hope that someone will email him or her privately with trade information.  A lot of that goes on, of course, but it leaves the vast majority out of the loop.  Another option is the Boca plan...buy one of everything and test them yourself. Then sell them at a profit.   But that doesn't work for everyone.  

So, for a lot of newbies, knowledge is harder to come by than it used to be.  Is this a good thing?  No, based on the founding principles of TUG as I understand them.  But I have pretty much thrown in the towel on this issue. 

I used to be a champion of openess here on TUG. My experience with Foxrun...or I should say with other Foxrun owners...has changed my mind, however.  When someone would ask for a suggestion of an inexpensive II trader, I used to mention Foxrun.  For this, I was bashed mercilessly and even threatened with expulsion from the Foxrun Owners Group.  Nevermind the fact that almost all of the members of that group found out about Foxrun from posts similar to mine on TUG.  They have got theirs, and they don't want anyone else buying in and potentially lowering their trade power. And it's not just Foxrun owners...it's pretty much the owners of any resort that trades well and doesn't cost a fortune.

So, TUG has lost some of the sense of community it once had.  I guess that is inevitible as any group becomes larger. People become a little more clickish and a little less open.

I still think that trade tests have value and are fun. They are certainly helpful to newer TUGGERS.  But I don't think you'll find many people willing to participate...especially those with the high power weeks.  I know I won't join in.  I don't need the wrath of my fellow Marriott's Manor Club and Hurricane House owners.   

Steve


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## ausman (Jun 6, 2006)

The whole tone of this discussion is disappointing to me. It smacks of we got ours and want to keep it.

If that is the case then lets do some trade tests that the results are only available to those who participated, and it could be restricted further, such as your resort only pulled 50% of those available so sorry and good luck next time.

For my own part there are certain areas and certain things I locked on to early on. I'm probably very knowledgeable about those, some years into things. 

If I want to go to another area which I haven't followed, a trade test sure would be helpful. Sharing knowledge to the betterment of all is what it should be about.


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## swift (Jun 6, 2006)

They were fun to participate in. I think another thing that holds them back from being done is the amount of work that it takes to put it together. The people that volunteered to do this put quite a few hours into it if I remember correctly.


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## PerryM (Jun 6, 2006)

*The timeshare zone*

One of the problems with exchange/trade tests is that the results are hard to duplicate.  Say that someone finds that XYZ is a $1,500 super trader that brings in GC resorts costing $8,000 and this knowledge needs to be spread.

So 20 folks buy all 20 XYZ’s up for sale and all snag the same 4th of July week.  Well guess what happens when #20 makes his space bank and starts to look around – no trading power explains why nothing shows up.  What happened?

If 20 folks deposited the same exact week #1 has great trading power and #20 has none.  A lot of moaning and groaning goes on and folks who declared XYZ for 4th of July week are called on the carpet, ok maybe not personally but (“Those idiots who convinced me to buy this turkey”) are phrases I’ve seen on TUG before.

This gets me back to the quick and dirty rental method.  Granted, the rental market is vastly different than the ownership market but rentals reflect supply and demand that can be measured and not guessed at.

My method is ready, willing, and able to give you some guidance and you can easily do the research yourself.  Timeshares exist only in the “Timeshare Zone” where most of the reality is based on how hard you wish.


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## Dani (Jun 8, 2006)

Question...is there any interest in doing smaller trade tests with respect to resort groups such as VRI, Marriott and Starwood?   I think that these are tests that we have not previously done as a group which might be helpful to others.  I have long wanted to do an VRI test with owners of red, white and blue weeks to see how the color of one's week affects the VRI preference.     I am also now curious about Starwood/Sheraton weeks and how the changes in season and/or color might affect trade power.

  Just a thought.


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## JLB (Jun 8, 2006)

I, for one, fell into that braggart category when I first came here, maybe 8 years ago, back when I childish and immature.    

When I administered the first of the new era of TUG trading power tests in late 1999, I received considerable criticism from the overly-protective and territorial TUG veterans of that era.  I did not understand their point.

Then, I experienced _trading power corrections_.  I believe that in a micro-economic situation, as in a small resort in a small vacation area, stuff said on the Internet can negatively effect the supply/demand balance of a resort.  It did mine and I have the discussion with those within the resort and the exchange company to verify that.

I don't believe whatever bragging is left to be done about South Africa, Orange Lake, Vistana, Branson, Williamsburg, etc., if there is any real bragging left to be done about them, will negatively affect a thing.  

But why take a chance?  What is to be accomplished by making it public, other than bragging rights?  I, and others, regularly discuss trading power with others via email, privately and off public forums.

So that those who are not privy to the past do not think that being tight-lipped is just pure selfishness, let me share some private thoughts from within one of the major exchange companies.  All of the following are direct quotes:

"Yes (deleted) should be kept quiet as it is something that can happen but, when we empowered agents, it was to do the right thing for the right situation not to empower all tug members . . .

"I do believe that (company deleted) management listens to tug as a part of our membership base . . .

". . . bragging on tug raises awareness of ineffeciences of the (company deleted) economic system to a group that you don't want to know about this such as sales and marketing . . . 

"It is great to have a secret society of people to exploit looples (sic) I am all 
for that. 

"I think there have been instances where trading power was miscalculated and perhaps tug expediated the fix.

"I think the older we get as a company the more real our data becomes.  I think in reality our ability to process data mirrors society's ability to transmit data.

"My email to you was not to warn you against big brother (revealing stuff deleted) but to warn you that as you share information with a core group of timesharers that you are sharing with others resorts, salespeople, managemetn (sic) companies and other timeshare owners who do not pay membership.

"I think tug should be private by paying only of course you might lose me 
but, your secrets would be shared with the group you wish.

"the audience is much bigger than (company deleted).

"I can tell you that sometimes tug is its own worst enemy as the resorts
read the board and they hate reading about all the blue week trades into 
(revealing stuff deleted) etc. I have specifically had resorts call me because of tug postings and demand answers, want changes etc.

"there are so many people on tug that have strong personalities i find it 
interesting just to watch sometimes


Well, that's enough for now.  Have a nice day.


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## Dani (Jun 8, 2006)

JLB,

  I both agree and disagree with you.  I agree that there is probably not much utility left in conducting trade tests with respect to most regular weeks including most SA weeks and weeks that we know to be top traders.   I think that unless there is a noticable change or shift in trade power, not much will probably come of it and no new information will likely be conveyed.

  Where I disagree with you is with respect to the utility of other types of testing.  It has nothing to do with obtaining so-called "bragging rights" much like when many including yourself participated in these tests years ago.  Most participated in order that we could learn what was and continues to be valuable information about trade power.  If not for these tests and the willingness of others to share,  many of us would not own the weeks that we own now which have provided many years of great exchanges for many.  

  IMHO, there is utility in conducting trade tests in areas such as the ones I suggested i.e. VRI, Marriott, and Starwood.  What is accomplished by conducting these tests other than bragging rights?  How about the very same thing that was accomplished when we routinely conducted these tests years ago...a more knowledgable timeshare consumer base and guidance for our future purchases.   That's good enough for me. 

  I agree with much of what Steve has said.   I feel that TUG is not the same place of sharing that it once was.    Many of the same people who object when a poster dares discuss trade power, are the very same people whom I remember writing me and  others back in the day based upon something that they read about trade power or a particular week here on TUG.    This strikes me as being just plain wrong.   Imagine if TUG was as closed-mouthed back then?   Imagine if I and others took the stance that many take now? 

   Mind you, the fact is that many have reason to be concerned.  Many who used to be very open have ceased doing so for good reason.  Weeks have been down-graded and loop-holes have been closed.  It's just that as I said before...it's a catch-22.    

IMHO, much has been exaggerated.  The simple fact is this...if your resort has limited supply and high demand, you will continue to enjoy good trade power.  Period.  There is nothing that can be said on TUG or anywhere else that will change that.  Where so-called corrections occur is where there is excessive supply and low demand.    Did TUG  hasten a decrease in trade power in many of these instances?  I think so.  However, the discussion does not and can not end there.  You must look at the resort and weeks that are being spoken about.  Once Tuggers started depositing units for these low demand, high supply weeks with the exchange companies, of course trade power decreased.  

   On the other hand,  I've owned at and have openly talked about a particular So. Cal resort for years and years.  Many, many people have purchased at this resort in the last 7 or 8 years.  Guess what?  Not only has the trade power of this resort increased, it has become a Gold Crown resort!!!   Why?  Low supply and high demand.  There is nothing magical and mystical about it.   No amount of talk on TUG or anywhere else has changed the fact that this resort was and continues to be a top trader.

    It's that simple.  Will RCI and II correct glitches in trading that they read about here on TUG?  Absolutely.   It's my hope that we continue to find a way to provide our members with information that has been to myself and other absolutely invaluable.


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## JLB (Jun 8, 2006)

I think it's important that we have this discussion every six months or so.   

It gives us a sense of nostalgia, belonging, and a chance to see if we all can recall what we said last time.  After all, age has it's drawbacks, and memory is the second thing to go.


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## JLB (Jun 8, 2006)

Besides, have you not heard, Weeks is archaic and of no value any more?  It is the business model admired only by old fogeys.   

Why would you want to know more about it?


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## swift (Jun 8, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> Besides, have you not heard, Weeks is archaic and of no value any more?  It is the business model admired only by old fogeys.
> 
> Why would you want to know more about it?




Ughh!!!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 8, 2006)

I was pretty new to TUG the last time I saw some trade tests going on.  I would like to test my Colorado weeks for trade power because I can get just about anything with the Silver Crown rotating (not floating) summer weeks, including any Hawaii week that anyone else is pulling.  The only problem is that this year my weeks are rotating into the pinkish territory that is September.  I think we will use them for PFD, since they are "red".  So I cannot test the weeks that I would really like to use, unfortunately.  

My winter ski 1 and summer week 25 trade pretty well with II, but I am not pulling Hawaii Marriotts or anything great there, unless it is a Flexchange.  I can pull anything Orlando has to offer, including all Marriotts, which is all I care about.  When there are bulk bank announcements, I rarely pull anything with those weeks, though I do pull Westin Kierland Villas, which is a supposedly difficult trade.  

I do have the ability to check with points, but that seems a little unfair.  That would seem like bragging.     RCI points have nothing to do with trading power, so I can pull Hawaii GC's for just about any month.  The point values for Hawaii have jumped drastically, thanks to the new grid that appeared on January 1st.   

Trade tests would be great if you could use the same resort for multiple time periods.  

I just met a woman at a baby shower that owns an OLCC two-bedroom unit.  She finally received a trade to Kauai after waiting two years for any week she could get, on any island.  She asked if I had ever stayed at Lawai Beach, which is where she is staying in September.  I have not stayed there but told her that I have heard it is a nice resort, so she should enjoy her vacation.  She was very disappointed to find out that our own state, Colorado, has better exchange power.  She spent $20K on her unit in Orlando three years ago, sadly.  We bought our two rotating RCI Silver Crowns for $2,500/pair four years ago, including closing costs.  We have traded to RCI GC Hawaiian
resorts with all eight of those weeks.   

I just don't see any reason to buy in Orlando, but so many people defend their resorts and are sure they can get better exchanges because they own in the "most popular vacation destination."  That is just a sales pitch phrase to me.  Sure Orlando is number one, but all of those people who purchase there need to be able to trade, that is part of the pitch, too.  Imagine what would happen to the rest of the country if timeshare sales in Orlando doubled in the next five years.  Our resorts throughout the rest of the country would gain value as traders.


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## philemer (Jun 9, 2006)

Dani,
I agree with you. The main reason for trade tests, IMHO, is to give newbies an idea of what to buy. I used the results of old tests to pick up one of my best traders and I appreciate everyone who participated. So, in the spirit of community, I would like to participate in another trade test. I can do RCI but not II.

Phil


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## JLB (Jun 9, 2006)

FWIW, I also used the results of the TUG trade test I administered to purchase our first good trader.  I was even fortunate enough that the association was having a quiet-title fire sale on exactly the week that was in the trade test.  That was in 1999.

It traded so well I got another one, from someone else who bought through the quiet title action.  And I told everyone who would listen how smart I was, how I finally got a good trader.  Folks listened and several bought similar weeks at the same resort.

The trading power correction first came in 2002, and at that time appeared to be a _glitch_ which a nice person in Customer Service at RCI assisted with.

Then it came again in 2004, when I deposited our 2006 weeks.  The _glitch _now appears to be a permanent correction.  Fortunately, the original week we have owned at that resort since 1992, also had a trading power correction in the opposite direction, so we have not missed a lick as far as searching.

We do, however, now own two weeks that do not have the trading power they once did, and I know the others who followed my advice do not either, and I feel bad about being the one whose bragging encouraged their decision to buy.

So I try not to brag directly any more, not mentioning what got us the Galleon, 3-bedroom at OL Christmas Week, or the great Hawaii stuff I see.

Having made my disclaimer I would think that everyone now has sufficient information as to whether they wish to particpate.

When there is a trade test, I do the searches to see how my weeks compare, and if they do well I just gloat to myself.


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## JLB (Jun 9, 2006)

Perry's comments about rental values reminds me of something I have noticed about exchanges, the _like-for-like _aspect.

RCI-wise, I believe a lot of people place too much focus on unit size, thinking they cannot get a larger unit than the one they are searching with.  That is not true.

My experience is that like-for-like is more value-for-value, and a guide to compare is rental prices in the open market.  A studio at a ski resort or on the beach during peak weeks, has comparable value to a three or four-bedroom unit at a sprawling mega-resort that always seems to have availability.

A studio in Aspen Week 52 or a 1-bedroom in Princeville or Marco Island/Captiva/Sanibel in January has appoximately the same value in the open market as a 3-bedroom at Orange Lake almost any time.  So, sometimes a studio or one bedroom trading for a 3 bedroom is like-for-like (value-for-value).


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## PerryM (Jun 9, 2006)

*Secret Santa*

Exchanging timeshares reminds me of Christmas’s Secret Santa – you have a limit of $10 to buy a gift and you always wind up spending $20 since $10 is too cheap a gift.

Then you draw names and you get a $5 gift that you will drop by one of those Marine Corps barrels for disadvantaged kids.  Once again the exchange didn’t work for you.

That to me is timeshare exchanging.  Folks who have lock-off units lock them off and deposit the studio part and use the 1BR part.  Basically there are scraps of great timeshares for great weeks that can’t work for your family’s needs.

You do the exact same thing – you lock-off your unit and deposit the shrimpy studio and expect to get a 2BR.  You, of course, are disappointed when it doesn’t happen.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve put out a search and got a studio and then entered another search for a 1BR and got it too.  The resorts generally have no problem putting the two parts together into a 2BR.  However, I paid dearly for this ability.

I find that the folks who know what their unit is worth just rent the entire villa and make 3 – 5 the MF and then take that money to rent a complete villa or condo or house which meets the needs of their family.  They look for another smart owner who is doing the exact same thing.  You get your exchange and you got a fair rental and found a fair rental – the market saw to that.

Renting, to me, has become superior to exchanging.


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## JLB (Jun 9, 2006)

Being from down here in to Ozarks, I, of course, could never play the sophisticated games that Perry does.

So, as I've said before, when it all grinds to a halt, we will just walk away from it.


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## ricoba (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: Secret Santa*



			
				PerryM said:
			
		

> Renting, to me, has become superior to exchanging.



Knowing what I know now, after my TS education on TUG, I have come more and more to this conclusion as well.

With the advent of the web and the ease of searching for your own rentals, why buy a TS when it's just as easy to rent a week any where around the world at most any place or any time you want?

Yes, I know there are benefits to TS ownership.  But exchanging for me at least is not one of them.  

As a member of a "mini-system" (HGVC), trade tests are kind of pointless any way.  Within RCI, we get exceptionally good trades, and my assumption is that those in II with a Marriott or a Starwood etc would do just as well as HGVC does in RCI.  

From my understanding of trade tests, they are a great benefit to those who own a stand alone resort, especially if it's one you bought really cheap resale.  For example you guys who bought a super cheap resale based upon its great trade testing have done great.

But for me it's just not that benefitial.

I don't say this to put down trade tests or any ones resorts.  It just seems to me that as more and more hotel or mini systems develop then trading becomes less and less important/valuable to folks like me. 

JMHO anyway,

Rick


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## jerseygirl (Jun 9, 2006)

Once my obsession peaked, I found so many weeks in my account that I can do a trade test every day!


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## JLB (Jun 11, 2006)

It would only take one week in your account to be able to do that!   




			
				jerseygirl said:
			
		

> Once my obsession peaked, I found so many weeks in my account that I can do a trade test every day!


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## lawren2 (Jul 5, 2007)

I think quite a few people would be surprised at what certain resorts in prime time in a prime area will NOT pull anymore.

I will participate if there is a test.

I learned it here first and am willing to share.


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## Dani (Jul 6, 2007)

lawren2 said:


> I think quite a few people would be surprised at what certain resorts in prime time in a prime area will NOT pull anymore.



Do you think that this an supply issue or a trade power issue?


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## Dave M (Jul 6, 2007)

lawren2 said:


> I will participate if there is a test.


Unless such tests are done privately, you will probably need to update your TUG membership info to participate. That's because such tests are usually carried out on the Sightings forum. The outdated word you have in the "TUG Member BBS Code" box in your BBS profile doesn't give you access to the Sightings forum. That's also why you are shown as a "Guest" in your posts.


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## philemer (Jul 6, 2007)

PerryM said:


> One of the problems with exchange/trade tests is that the results are hard to duplicate.  Say that someone finds that XYZ is a $1,500 super trader that brings in GC resorts costing $8,000 and this knowledge needs to be spread.
> 
> So 20 folks buy all 20 XYZ’s up for sale and all snag the same 4th of July week.  Well guess what happens when #20 makes his space bank and starts to look around – no trading power explains why nothing shows up.  What happened?
> 
> If 20 folks deposited the same exact week #1 has great trading power and #20 has none.  A lot of moaning and groaning goes on and folks who declared XYZ for 4th of July week are called on the carpet, ok maybe not personally but (“Those idiots who convinced me to buy this turkey”) are phrases I’ve seen on TUG before.



I can't agree with you Perry. IF July 4th is a popular week (which it surely is in most locales) there will be more than enough "ongoing seraches" to ensure that those 20 deposits maintain max. trading power. Those 20 weeks will be gone in seconds & they'll all have identical trade power. Now, if there are less than 20 "ongoing searches" in place your hypothesis would make sense.

Phil


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## Dave M (Jul 6, 2007)

*To Phil and all others who might post in this thread....*

Please note that all posts prior to #35 in this thread, including Perry's, are over one year old!


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## philemer (Jul 7, 2007)

Dave M said:


> *To Phil and all others who might post in this thread....*
> 
> Please note that all posts prior to #35 in this thread, including Perry's, are over one year old!



Too funny, Dave.  I never noticed the "2006" part. 

The trouble with a big trade test is finding someone with a lot of time on their hands who also has the skill to compile the data.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 13, 2011)

Steve said:


> Hi Dani,
> 
> I'm well aware of your concern...and it is a legitimate one.  I realize that a lot of my knowledge...and that of others who have been around for a while...has been acquired through public posts and trade tests.  Yet the trade tests we have are now old, and information isn't traded freely like it used to be.
> 
> ...



Wow, how things have changed


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## Judy (Jun 13, 2011)

Today it's possible to search with "all" and theoretically see everything that RCI has in inventory even if your deposit doesn't have enough TPU's to confirm everything.  But at least one question remains to be investigated:  Are VEP filters still in effect?  I'd like to know and I'd be happy to participate in a trade test to try and find out.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 13, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Wow, how things have changed


In what way, Ride?  What specifically are you commenting about?  

Things have changed a great deal, but I wonder if you are aware of just how much.  Exchanging and owning have been so incredibly turned upside down.  

Foxrun's fees are up, and a lot of people are wondering how high can they go.  We own four weeks and would rather own just two of them.  The fees for 2011 were $645, and in 2006, the fees were more like $480.  That's a lot, way higher than inflation, but Foxrun has had a major remodel, with no special assessments.  It still trades great in II, but RCI really has no use for Foxrun.  The Points Lite system RCI put into place in November made it clear how low the trading power in RCI was for Foxrun, sadly.  

Trade tests are a thing of the past with the new Points Lite.  If you know how to see everything available, even if your week doesn't have enough Points Lite to pull much, you can at least see if combining this year's and next year's weeks for $99 will get that perfect exchange.  It's very transparent, and I love it.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 13, 2011)

I wonder if ungoing search trade tests would reveal anything interesting.  Now would be the time to do it while you can start them for free.  Those with multiple deposits could make multiple tests.  

We could see how modifying request affect who gets what first.  If the match goes to the earliest request first over tpu's as long as the required tpu's are present, etc.  The only problem is the close in requests are going to get the most frequest hits but you have to start a request at least 30 day out.


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## bnoble (Jun 13, 2011)

> I wonder if ungoing search trade tests would reveal anything interesting.


It can.  I did this with Atlantic summer coastal one year in RCI, and the ongoing search turned up a lot that never made it into the leftovers, as near as I could tell.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 13, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> In what way, Ride?  What specifically are you commenting about?
> 
> Things have changed a great deal, but I wonder if you are aware of just how much.  Exchanging and owning have been so incredibly turned upside down.
> 
> Trade tests are a thing of the past with the new Points Lite.  If you know how to see everything available, even if your week doesn't have enough Points Lite to pull much, you can at least see if combining this year's and next year's weeks for $99 will get that perfect exchange.  It's very transparent, and I love it.



Sorry your right...i wasn't specific...I hope Steve doesn't mind me cutting up his post a little...



Steve said:


> Hi Dani,
> 
> I'm well aware of your concern...and it is a legitimate one.  I realize that a lot of my knowledge...and that of others who have been around for a while...*has been acquired through public posts and trade tests.  Yet the trade tests we have are now old, and information isn't traded freely like it used to be.  *
> *Today, a new TUGGER pretty much has to hope that someone will email him or her privately with trade information.  A lot of that goes on, of course, but it leaves the vast majority out of the loop. *
> ...


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## Margariet (Jun 13, 2011)

Judy said:


> Today it's possible to search with "all" and theoretically see everything that RCI has in inventory even if your deposit doesn't have enough TPU's to confirm everything.  But at least one question remains to be investigated:  Are VEP filters still in effect?  I'd like to know and I'd be happy to participate in a trade test to try and find out.



We know that not all RCI members see the same inventory. Thanks to TUG sightings we have found out that not all RCI bulk deposits are visible for everyone. Not even when you look at all available RCI resorts. We know about the time differences for the Hawaii HGVC bulk deposits and only recently I noticed (and another poster as well) that the HGVC bulk deposit for Parc Soleil was not visible for me. I had seen that bulk at the same time with Hawaii just like South Beach but when other members reported them they were gone for me. So some bulks I've noticed earlier I guess and others I see later. I'm intrigued about that but nobody has given me the answer! I'm curious if an European member still sees different inventory. And it's only recently on TUG that I've heard of VEP!


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## bnoble (Jun 13, 2011)

The two known differences are:

1: VEP.  (This is by all accounts a small thing in terms of total # of units).

2: Mini-system portals seem to have a delay in getting access to changes in the back-end.  It is not yet known if this is only an issue for online searches, or of ongoing searches also suffer from this problem.  Personally, I suspect it is online only, as there is good evidence that RCI VCs use their own internal back-end system directly when you speak with them on the phone.

There may also be differences between the various "flavors" of RCI (US, UK, and I think AUS.)


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## Margariet (Jun 13, 2011)

bnoble said:


> The two known differences are:
> 
> 1: VEP.  (This is by all accounts a small thing in terms of total # of units).
> 
> ...



Thanks. I'm getting to the bottom to find out about the differences in visible inventory between RCI members but so far no results! I'm not in a mini portal so that's not an issue. Must be the flavor! From what I know from the RCI staff is that they only can give you what is visible in your account. So they see what I see. Ongoing search doesn't work with the bulk deposits, only after a time delay. So that's of no use. RCI knows that there their system is not flawless.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 13, 2011)

Don't forget...

3. Regional blocks.  The big one is Orlando DVC, but I'm sure there are others.  I know that many international RCI members see different inventory, too.


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