# Worldmark "Gotchas" for resale?



## spookykennedy (Apr 10, 2013)

I have been researching on WMowners and trying to figure out what I need to know for resale. I am thinking of starting with 6k points. We moved to Seattle and it seems WM is a great fit for us. I see resales from reputable sellers on eBay and then private sales on WMowners. Any "gotchas" to be aware of?


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## presley (Apr 10, 2013)

Only thing to keep in mind is that many of the Ebay sellers will charge a closing fee and charge you for unused points that are still in the account.  Many times you can find contracts for sale on wmowners that will not charge extra for those things.

6,000 is an okay start to get your foot in the door.  7,000 pays the same MFs as 6,000, so you may want to jump up to 7,000.


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## spookykennedy (Apr 10, 2013)

presley said:


> Only thing to keep in mind is that many of the Ebay sellers will charge a closing fee and charge you for unused points that are still in the account.  Many times you can find contracts for sale on wmowners that will not charge extra for those things.
> 
> 6,000 is an okay start to get your foot in the door.  7,000 pays the same MFs as 6,000, so you may want to jump up to 7,000.



Good to know, thanks! It also seems easy to get more points from other owners as needed which I like. That is one of my favorite parts of DVC is the flexibility.


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## GregT (Apr 10, 2013)

presley said:


> Only thing to keep in mind is that many of the Ebay sellers will charge a closing fee and charge you for unused points that are still in the account.  Many times you can find contracts for sale on wmowners that will not charge extra for those things.
> 
> 6,000 is an okay start to get your foot in the door.  7,000 pays the same MFs as 6,000, so you may want to jump up to 7,000.



This is great advice -- I wouldn't go for a larger package as you can rent credits easily from other owners (on WMOwners) -- WM is a great system.

Good luck!

Best,

Greg


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## PassionForTravel (Apr 11, 2013)

The only gotha, which is not really a gotha if you understand it going into it, is that 6k or 7K is not enough credits to get a week. Which means to make even a single reservation at 13 months (the popular places especially in the Pacific Northwest) you will be need to rent credits from other owners for every reservation. Otherwise you will be limited to making reservations 9 months or closer to vacation date.

Also if you've been watching wmowners you might have noticed that rented credits have gone from $.055 -> $.060 (last fall) a credit to $.065->$.070 a credit currently. No idea of the cause but I have a few ideas.

The effect is that renting credits is now more expensive than owning them, which is the way it should be, since the owners are taking the risk of paying the MF's.

Ian


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## benyu2010 (Apr 11, 2013)

The eBay price of WM does not come cheap lately. It is not worth the hassels to deal with spotty PCC resellers. If you only needs a minimal account, consider to buy from a reputable broker, ideally local one you can check out in person. Buy based on value, not size. Valuation method is identical to DVC

I seldom rent to others below 6.75 per credit lately. Just like DVC, you have actual value of ressie to create and support demand of the points. Commercial rental rate values the credit at 9 to 12 cents per credit and 7 is fair price if not many stripping the contract and dumping credits. Soon, many will take the convenient route of fax time as 8 with HK included is still a decent deal.


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## cotraveller (Apr 11, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> The only gotha, which is not really a gotha if you understand it going into it, is that 6k or 7K is not enough credits to get a week. Which means to make even a single reservation at 13 months (the popular places especially in the Pacific Northwest) you will be need to rent credits from other owners for every reservation. Otherwise you will be limited to making reservations 9 months or closer to vacation date.



That's not completely true.  Since you can borrow from next years credits, a 6,000 credit account gives you 12,000 to work with.  6,000 from this year and 6,000 from next year.  So you can make that reservation at 13 months using borrowed credits.  You can then either wait until your anniversary date for new credits to come into your account, or you can go the rental route to replace the borrowed credits.  If you booked one bedroom units you could book 3 out of 4 years at most resorts without renting credits.

A 10,000 credit account is a little easier to work with and gives you more flexibility, but 6,000 or 7,000 credits is a very common size and very doable.


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## easyrider (Apr 11, 2013)

A few gotcha things with worldmark by wyndham are ,

1. Resale contracts no longer can reserve South Pacific and affiliates

2. Resorts that were Trendwest or Jeldwyn owned no longer trade into Worldmark without using an exchange company. 

3. RCI and II use a different method to value time than Worldmark. What is WM red might be low demand with an exchange company.

4, Bonus time has been manipulated by Wyndham employees. 

5. Wyndham has launched a newer level of ownership.that has a larger window to grab bonus time

6. Wyndham with the board of directors has recently changed the booking windows from 90 days to 9 months in red season.

7. There is now a $35 fee to buy points.

The good is that WM is still a very good trader and the resale contracts can book at a first come first served in the 13 month window along with the newer contracts for the most popular weeks. Buying points is still possible. I like to buy mine from timeshare angels. Worldmark is one of my favorites.

Bill


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## benyu2010 (Apr 11, 2013)

easyrider said:


> A few gotcha things with worldmark by wyndham are ,
> 
> 1. Resale contracts no longer can reserve South Pacific and affiliates
> 2. Resorts that were Trendwest or Jeldwyn owned no longer trade into Worldmark without using an exchange company.
> ...




1. Availability is limited and chance of staying in Aussie&NZ is small

2. No relevancy of buying WM resale

3. confirm first, you get charged pre-set amount of credits. 

4. Everyone who lurks a little while knows the trick of bonus time...not rocket science.

5. Fun time of developer program, travelsghare was discountinued more than a year ago and it is next to obsolete due to booking window and rate.

6. It is for booking less than seven days in red season and arguably good for small owner.

7 False. Seller is charged $35 per transfer if total amount of outgoing credit assignment exceeds twice of the account size per contract year. Do not let seller pass that cost to you. Most people do not assign credits twice of its annual allotments in any contract year.

Buying a resale, small contract is relatively easy and painless through a local broker. You can get an account within 30 days.


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## PassionForTravel (Apr 11, 2013)

Fred, you are so right I forgot about the ability to use to borrow credits to make that 13 month reservation.

Ian


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## cotraveller (Apr 11, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> The eBay price of WM does not come cheap lately. It is not worth the hassels to deal with spotty PCC resellers. If you only needs a minimal account, consider to buy from a reputable broker, ideally local one you can check out in person. Buy based on value, not size. Valuation method is identical to DVC
> 
> I seldom rent to others below 6.75 per credit lately. Just like DVC, you have actual value of ressie to create and support demand of the points. Commercial rental rate values the credit at 9 to 12 cents per credit and 7 is fair price if not many stripping the contract and dumping credits. *Soon, many will take the convenient route of fax time as 8 with HK included is still a decent deal*.



The Gotcha with FAX time is that you can only use it in Red Season once every 5 years at the 8 cents per credit rate.  Subsequent uses would be at 15 cents per credit.  For White or Blue season it is a reasonable alternative since that restriction does not apply.

Other cash options are Inventory Specials at Bonus Time rates at 60 days before checkin and the Monday Madness specials at 7 cents per credit which allow booking up to 11 months in advance. There have been other specials periodically throughout the last two years (at least) which allowed booking any WorldMark resort but those are unpredictable.


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## K2Quick (Apr 11, 2013)

I realize that the predominant school of thought is to buy a small account and rent credits when you need them.  However, if you're planning on using at least 10,000 credits per year (which most owners do) and plan on holding your membership at least ten years, a 10,000 credit account is a no-brainer.

Assumptions: Membership accounts bought for $0.33 per credit
                  One-time rental credit costs of $0.065 per credit

A 10K account would cost $3,300 and a 6K account would cost $1,980 (ignores transfer fees and closing costs which should be identical). A 10K account has annual maintenance fees of $634 and a 6K account has annual fees of $514.  Renting an additional 4K credits into the 6K account would cost approximately $260 for a total annual cost of $774.  That's an incremental cost of $140 per year.  Divide that into the $1,320 up-front cost and you've got a pay-back period of less than ten years.  That also ignores the fact that the 10K account should retain more value at the end of year ten than the 6K account.


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## sparty (Apr 11, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> Buying a resale, small contract is relatively easy and painless through a local broker. You can get an account within 30 days.



You are probably correct. I bought through a popular reseller mentioned in this thread.  Bought March 1, paid into escrow the full amount March 1, and I'm still waiting.  I did get this though:

_Spoke with WorldMark today and they’ve advised that your file has been received and submitted to their audit department. Please allow up to 7 business days for them to process.

Once their audit department is done with your file, it will then be submitted to their contracts department (another 10-15 business days to finalize the name change, etc.).

After the contracts department is done with your file, it will then be submitted to the reservations department. That is the final department it goes to before being completed. They will make sure that all the credits have been moved before closing out the file. We follow up with WorldMark every other day and as soon as the transfer is completed, we will let you know right away._

My advice is to keep the middlemen out and buy directly from an owner.


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## K2Quick (Apr 11, 2013)

sparty said:


> My advice is to keep the middlemen out and buy directly from an owner.



I've bought two WM accounts off of ebay from individual owners and both purchases were smooth sailing and painless aside from the normal Wyndham roadblocks and delays.  I insisted on escrow of funds, though, in both cases.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy again directly from another owner.  As long as the pricing was similar, however, I also wouldn't hesitate to buy from one of established brokers.  If I were going to do something like buy a no-housekeeping account or combine another account into a NHK account, I'd definitely feel more comfortable going through a broker who has been through it before.


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## benyu2010 (Apr 11, 2013)

Fred, very well said. FAX at 8 is once every five years, and the way to avoid it, is you get credits to replace the fax booking later. Some VPC does and she don't. I personally have mixed success.

K2quick, the main emphasis of small account is low entry cost and that's why tons of sales are at four figure sizes. I second with your opinion of size based on average usage. It is more economical to have 10-30K size for average owner on a long term basis. It is better value and much more room and flexibility to maneuver.  

Sparty, is it a standalone or split transfer? The form answer is not helpful. Of course, it makes sense to cut the middleman and save for both sides. But it requires the knowledge and trust on both sides to proceed in a professionally and timely manner, escrow is often major issue in large transaction. Sometimes, sellers have no willingness to learn and do the legwork and some of the commission got pass down to the buyer in final price. Do you mind to share the size of the contract you buy?


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## Rent_Share (Apr 11, 2013)

K2Quick said:


> I realize that the predominant school of thought is to buy a small account and rent credits when you need them. However, if you're planning on using at least 10,000 credits per year (which most owners do) and plan on holding your membership at least ten years, a 10,000 credit account is a no-brainer.
> 
> Assumptions: Membership accounts bought for $0.33 per credit
> One-time rental credit costs of $0.065 per credit
> ...


 

5 years is a better time frame for evaluating than 10


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## Rent_Share (Apr 11, 2013)

*Gotchas*

First ads I looked at:



> 1 12,000 CREDITS ANNUAL 11,625 CREDITS AVAILABLE AUGUST 2013
> Interesting way of saying thereare only 375 to use for the first 4 Months (yes you can borrow from the 2013 allocation) but this should trade for at least $ 720 less since there are no current credits to use.
> 
> There is no mention of housekeeping tokens, it's possible that the 2013 one has been borrowed and used further discounting this one $ 140 ($ 70 each)
> ...




> 6,000 WORLDMARK POINTS GOLD CROWN WORLDWIDE LOCATIONS
> $ 385 in closing costs
> This is a high volume weeks trader. Shows and aniversary date of 11/2013 and first year of usage 2014, which indicates there are no current year points available so the pricing should be discounted the cost of renting the 2013 points that should be available.
> ​





> WORLDMARK BY WYNDHAM 20,000 CREDITS
> MARCH 1st ANNIVERSARY DATE
> 18,025 POINTS AVAILABLE NOW, WILL GET 20,000 MORE IN MARCH 2014 - Slightly Overdrawn (1,975 credits - minor adjustment ~ $120) Charging $ 350 "Settlement Fee"​


​


> WorldMark by Wyndham 6,000 Annual
> 1,000 Unused Credits (without borrowing)
> 6,000 Credits Available to Borrow
> November Anniversary
> ...


​
4 for 4 had something that required an adjustment for "Gotchas"
​


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## benyu2010 (Apr 11, 2013)

Settlement charge, reimbursement of MF, Available borrow overdrawn, on top of Wyndham $299 need to be adjusted accordingly. Just like buying a car, OTD(out-to-door) price is the sticky point, don't let sales guy sweet talk you into a good deal. In this case, OTD per point after all adjustments


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## spookykennedy (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone, I am going to spend some more time researching before I decide so I feel confidently educated.


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## sue1947 (Apr 11, 2013)

sparty said:


> You are probably correct. I bought through a popular reseller mentioned in this thread.  Bought March 1, paid into escrow the full amount March 1, and I'm still waiting.  I did get this though:
> 
> _Spoke with WorldMark today and they’ve advised that your file has been received and submitted to their audit department. Please allow up to 7 business days for them to process.
> 
> ...



The process and delays are on Worldmark/Wyndham's side so will be the same whether purchasing via reseller or direct from an owner.  I've purchased both ways and appreciated the reseller's checking on the process to move things along.   It can go quickly sometimes, and very slowly at others all at Wyndham's end of things.

Sue


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