# Woodstone and Regal Vista Points resales



## tschwa2 (Sep 1, 2019)

I am at Massanutten now and haven't done a tour in 5 years.  I thought I would see what they are offering to convert.  They kept insisting that points do not transfer upon resale.  That I could not buy points and even if I paid to convert my weeks they would revert back to weeks when sold.  I told them that I currently have a week 29 Regal Vistas in points.  They insisted that after 2 years of resale ownership it would revert. 

Has anyone resold a points week and was their anything in the estoppel to the new owner indicating that it would revert to a week?

The final offer which I left before hearing but they called me back with was a $5995 new week worth 44,000 points every other year but I pay $230 per year and they would convert my week 30 Regal Vistas (89,000 for $515 MF), Week 26 Woodstone Deluxe (130,000 for $825 MF) and week 27 Woodstone Luxury (137,000 for $855MF).    I am supposed to go back and they are to have the contract ready in the morning.  I obviously know how to rescind and while I may not have time to go over with the fine tooth comb before signing (don't want to waste any more time) it will be gone over in the next 3 days.


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## escanoe (Sep 1, 2019)

You have me scared now. I bought a week 29 Woodstone Luxury 4BR w/ 137,000 annual points last November on the resale market. I was under the impression that the points were as close to permanent as things are with timeshares.

It did concern me when I read the estoppel and there was a standard line related to the RCI points account that is labeled “expiration date” and listed 8/31/22. This estoppel was dated a couple of months before I agreed to purchase. After talking to the closing agent and doing some Internet research, I became convinced that was just the current expiration date for the RCI account of the seller.

There is nothing in the estoppel or the RCI Points Account transfer agreement I signed that made me think the points ownership would only transfer for two years. I am traveling now, but will look at my deed when I get back home.

When I log onto my RCI points account, it does list my “membership term expiration date” (not to be confused with “member expiration date”) as 11/30/2021. When I look at the part of the account where I would renew my membership it says “Your subscribing membership is eligible to be renewed, but your membership term must be extended first. Please contact an RCI Vacation Guide at 1.877.968.7476 to extend your membership term.”

It is going to stink if Massanuuten/Vacation Village will not let me extend my term without some ridiculous fee. I sure hope this is just the case of a sales agent’s lips moving.

TUG member @Eric B told me in a previous thread he owns the same type Woodstone points contract as I have. Maybe he bought it resale and may be able to shed some light on this.


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## tschwa2 (Sep 2, 2019)

I spoke to the closing department today and they were adamant that RCI told them that the points would not transfer upon resale beyond the current points term (generally automatically renewed every 3 years).  The person who told me this knew that I would be less likely to pay the $5995 that they were asking to convert (multiple units) if this were the case so I believe that she believes it to be the case.  I am still not convinced that it is the case but do not know for sure.  I also believe that Massanutten paid RCI a lot to get the points deal (the high number of points per unit especially in the summer) that they received - more than the typical $199 or $299 per deed.  
What I still wonder is if the conversions revert back but not the straight pre converted deeds or if nothing reverts back. There is no indication that my Regal Vistas in points bought about a year ago is in danger of reverting to a deed.


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## escanoe (Sep 2, 2019)

I paid a premium on the resale market for a Woodstone unit that was enrolled in RCI points (versus one not in RCI points). It is a fairly small resale market for Massanutten units enrolled in RCI points. I would think whatever the policy is on RCI points transferring on resale, it is likely a blanket policy for Vacation Village properties. There is certainly a larger market for Grandview in Vegas. I am going to be working to get to the bottom of this soon for my peace of mind or to likely plot an exit from Massanuten ownership.

I just looked in my safe at home. There is nothing relevant to this on the deed (didn’t especially think there would be) but a written transfer confirmation from the closing company noted the successful transfer of 137,0000 annual RCI points.


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## escanoe (Sep 2, 2019)

The three year "term" on my account appears to be uniform transfer procedure for all transferred RCI points accounts .... and nothing Vacation Village has driven.

Standard RCI Points Transfer Form:
https://www.rci.com/static/docs/namer/en_US/RCI-Points-Membership-Transfer-Application.pdf






I agree with @tschwa2 that the person at Massanutten that told him this "knew that [he] would be less likely to pay the $5995 that they were asking to convert (multiple units) if this were the case so [@tschwa2] believes that she believes it to be the case."

However, the thing is @tschwa2 is wAAAAAy more educated on this than the average bear they are dealing with. Overall, they are likely to perceive it to be in their best interest to say that they are the only place you can buy a legitimate RCI Points contract for Massanutten. I remain scared, but skeptical of what the sales team says, as I continue to look into my situation.


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## escanoe (Sep 3, 2019)

I called RCI today in relation to the Woodstone RCI Points Unit that I bought resale last year. I had no problem on the phone extending my RCI Points membership for another year (out to 2022) and at the same time adding three more years (to 2024) to the "membership term expiration date."

Also, see item 8 below from the universal language Massanutten was using in estoppels last year. It says to contact RCI directly "with any questions/transfer of points ownership." Why would it refer to "transfer of points ownership" if such a thing did not exist ... and if they universally limit point use to two years after transfer, this would be an obvious place to state it.

Having now contacted RCI and experiencing no problem extending the term expiration doubt out so far, I feel like this is a case of sales agents' lips moving and not something real to worry about.

Do your new RCI points contracts that they gave you say anything about transfer or points ownership?


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## escanoe (Sep 8, 2019)

@tschwa2, so did they persuade you to upgrade every thing to points?


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## Grammarhero (Sep 10, 2019)

I enjoy Massanutten, but never really loved the place.  Maybe I will try to have an open mind.  What do you all love about Massanutten?


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## missyrcrews (Sep 10, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I enjoy Massanutten, but never really loved the place.  Maybe I will try to have an open mind.  What do you all love about Massanutten?


My kids LOVED the size of the units.  We had a 4BR 4BA in Summit summer 2018.  It was one of the largest timeshare units we'd ever stayed in.  We enjoyed the water park...great to not have to drive miles and miles.  We also enjoyed having lots of Civil War history literally at our doorstep. 

I did not like the fees, and the fact that EVERYTHING costs extra.  I also wasn't a fan of the crowds.  We tend to be happier in smaller out of the way places. 

It was fine once, but it will be several years before I'll be ready to go back.


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## Grammarhero (Sep 10, 2019)

missyrcrews said:


> My kids LOVED the size of the units.  We had a 4BR 4BA in Summit summer 2018.  It was one of the largest timeshare units we'd ever stayed in.  We enjoyed the water park...great to not have to drive miles and miles.  We also enjoyed having lots of Civil War history literally at our doorstep.
> 
> I did not like the fees, and the fact that EVERYTHING costs extra.  I also wasn't a fan of the crowds.  We tend to be happier in smaller out of the way places.
> 
> It was fine once, but it will be several years before I'll be ready to go back.


There is Civil War stuff near Massanutten?  I should check that out.  I usually like checking out Fredericksburg and Manassas, the sites of the major Civil War battles.


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## bluehende (Sep 11, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I enjoy Massanutten, but never really loved the place.  Maybe I will try to have an open mind.  What do you all love about Massanutten?




The mountain scenery is very pretty.   We hike and bike and  both are great here.  I would rate the mountain biking here as the best in the East(at least as far as I know).  After a few hours of exercise the pools feel great.  Also we hit the Monday night show.  It is always fun.  The general area has a lot of historical sites to visit.


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## escanoe (Sep 11, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> I enjoy Massanutten, but never really loved the place.  Maybe I will try to have an open mind.  What do you all love about Massanutten?



1) I don’t disagree with your assessment.

2) I enjoy getting 137,000 RCI points for my my $855 maintenance fee

3) I live in the DC area. It is a close place that one can get into for most three day weekend with minimal planning, effort, and relatively small expenditure of points or dollars. Hiking is great around there and free. Skiing and water park can be fun, but at far from bargain prices.


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## hyperjewl (Oct 31, 2019)

I've appreciated being able to ready this thread, as I am a Summit Weeks owner, but debating adding in a points account to have the option of rolling my weeks into points when it suits our travel plans. What I'd like to ask is how far does 89,000 points go? I'm extremely familiar with everything in RCI Weeks, but not so with the points program. We tend to travel in larger units - ideally 3 bedrooms. If we rolled our weeks units into points for that year, we'd have even more to use, but I would want to be careful to not have to pay extra fees if they were to expire. I'd also be curious to find out if you believe there are more fees on the Weeks or Points side of RCI. Thank you for your feedback! It's appreciated.


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## tschwa2 (Oct 31, 2019)

Membership fee is higher on the points side.  I typically get 2 years at a time for $229.  It's $124 for 1 year and as you approach 5 years at a time it lowers to $100 per year -$499/5.  As long as you use at least some points you don't have to pay to extend the points for the second year. In weeks I usually combine at least once a year so that is something I don't have to do with points.  Booking weeks inventory the fees are the same.  Booking points inventory the fee is slightly less per week.  You do have the option to book longer than a week (up to 21 days).  I booked 3 weeks for next summer and the exchange fee was $299.  

Points requirements are all over the place.  The place I booked for 3 weeks is an older (but still nice) mid atlantic 2 BR beach block resort with no bells and whistles.  A summer week is 27,000 points.  So I booked 3 weeks for 81,000 and $299 exchange fee.  On the other hand 2BR at Vacation Village at Parkway (Orlando) prime weeks are about 92,500 per week and many of these weeks go for 7-12 tpu's on the weeks side.


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## escanoe (Oct 31, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> Booking weeks inventory the fees are the same.  Booking points inventory the fee is slightly less per week.



@tschwa2 is the experienced pro in this discussion, but I either misunderstand something or my experience is different ... especially in relation to Massanutten or Vacation Village (VV) weekly exchanges.

My historical experience is booking using RCI Points exclusively. I recently signed up for an RCI weeks account just so I could take advantage of the Mass Resort Boost Program for owners that Pay MFs in advance.

One advantage (it appears to me) of weeks ownership within Massanutten versus points is you get discounted weekly exchange fees within Mass Resort and the greater VV community versus RCI points. A weekly exchange fee with in the VV collection is only $159 per week. Using RCI points the normal exchange for a week (7 days) is $239.

The supposed perk for RCI points is you can book earlier within Massanutten and VV systems. For my current purposes and usage, I would prefer the discounted weekly exchange fee.

But that just discusses the difference in weekly exchange fees. I really like the flexibility that comes with points.


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## Eric B (Oct 31, 2019)

escanoe said:


> @tschwa2 is the experienced pro in this discussion, but I either misunderstand something or my experience is different ... especially in relation to Massanutten or Vacation Village (VV) weekly exchanges.
> 
> My historical experience is booking using RCI Points exclusively. I recently signed up for an RCI weeks account just so I could take advantage of the Mass Resort Boost Program for owners that Pay MFs in advance.
> 
> ...



You'll likely also find that with both a weeks and points account, when VV has a free anniversary week deal going you can get two because they do it by account number.  Similarly, you can activate the VV bonus weeks in each account.


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## BobDE (Nov 1, 2019)

tschwa2, did they show you where the new Regal Vista like units would be located and any information about completion dates? We are going this month and I was think about taking the tour.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 1, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I called RCI today in relation to the Woodstone RCI Points Unit that I bought resale last year. I had no problem on the phone extending my RCI Points membership for another year (out to 2022) and at the same time adding three more years (to 2024) to the "membership term expiration date."
> 
> Also, see item 8 below from the universal language Massanutten was using in estoppels last year. It says to contact RCI directly "with any questions/transfer of points ownership." Why would it refer to "transfer of points ownership" if such a thing did not exist ... and if they universally limit point use to two years after transfer, this would be an obvious place to state it.
> 
> ...



We have a Vacation Village Misner Place 2 BR with 86,500 annual points which is our first and only developer purchase.  We feel that the value of this purchase is the value of the points reservations that can be made.  For instance we used 101,000 points this year to reserve 2 weeks in Maui at the Kaanapali Beach Club.  If I understand what your saying if we were to sell that timeshare the points WOULD transfer to the new owner.


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## DannyTS (Feb 3, 2020)

I am in the process of buying a 178k RCI Points contract Regal Vistas at Massanuten. Anythink I should be aware of? Pros and cons?


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## CPNY (Feb 3, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> I am in the process of buying a 178k RCI Points contract Regal Vistas at Massanuten. Anythink I should be aware of? Pros and cons?


You just beat me out!!! What was your high? I couldn’t go past 1500. Not knowing enough about it and seeing other listings with different point values. Let me know when you get your estoppel.


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## CPNY (Feb 13, 2020)

escanoe said:


> I called RCI today in relation to the Woodstone RCI Points Unit that I bought resale last year. I had no problem on the phone extending my RCI Points membership for another year (out to 2022) and at the same time adding three more years (to 2024) to the "membership term expiration date."
> 
> Also, see item 8 below from the universal language Massanutten was using in estoppels last year. It says to contact RCI directly "with any questions/transfer of points ownership." Why would it refer to "transfer of points ownership" if such a thing did not exist ... and if they universally limit point use to two years after transfer, this would be an obvious place to state it.
> 
> ...


What would have happened if you didn’t extend your membership? Would it have reverted to weeks ? My regal vista estoppel lists it as a points ownership.


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## escanoe (Feb 17, 2020)

CPNY said:


> What would have happened if you didn’t extend your membership? Would it have reverted to weeks ? My regal vista estoppel lists it as a points ownership.



Presumably if what the sales reps said while their lips were moving was true, yes it would revert back to weeks. My memory of what @tschwa2 said earlier in this thread is the sales office told him that it would revert back to “weeks” once the current “term” in points enrollment ended. I thought a good way to test this would be to call RCI and pay my membership out beyond my current term that was enrolled in points. RCI gladly took my prepaid membership $ and did what was needed to extend my term further out than the sales reps told @tschwa2 it could be.

Here is one thing I would encourage you new buyers to do: Keep the welcome letter you get from Massanutten when the purchase goes through. I thought mine was rather unremarkable and knew I had the deed and the RCI transfer paper. I remember the letter distinctly saying the unit I bought was enrolled in points. I put it in the trash not seeing any reason to keep it.

As soon as I saw @tschwa2’s report, I thought if there had there been any truth to points enrollment not transferring, the resort certainly should have noted something like that in the welcome letter noting I had bought a property enrolled in points.

Please let us know what your welcome letters say when you get them.

I have not brought this up with Massanutten Resort or explicitly with RCI, because I decided it was best not to. However, I have had a few phone conversations with Massanutten and VV RCI specialist and they certainly act like the future of my points account is stable and have asked me to extend my points membership even further out.

I am beyond worrying about this much more, but it was a scary jolt for me when I first heard it.


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## DannyTS (Feb 17, 2020)

escanoe said:


> Presumably if what the sales reps said while their lips were moving was true, yes it would revert back to weeks. My memory of what @tschwa2 said earlier in this thread is the sales office told him that it would revert back to “weeks” once the current “term” in points enrollment ended. I thought a good way to test this would be to call RCI and pay my membership out beyond my current term that was enrolled in points. RCI gladly took my prepaid membership $ and did what was needed to extend my term further out than the sales reps told @tschwa2 it could be.
> 
> Here is one thing I would encourage you new buyers to do: Keep the welcome letter you get from Massanutten when the purchase goes through. I thought mine was rather unremarkable and knew I had the deed and the RCI transfer paper. I remember the letter distinctly saying the unit I bought was enrolled in points. I put it in the trash not seeing any reason to keep it.
> 
> ...


Last week I have received the estoppel for the Regal Vista as well as the RCI broker form, they both mention the contract is RCI points and nothing about any expiration date. From  the estoppel:
- Weeks/Points: *Points*
- Any Weeks Banked, if so what year(s): *This is a points account
- *Date usage is next available: 2020* {Also depends on RCI points transfer agreement)*


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## CPNY (Mar 5, 2020)

escanoe said:


> 1) I don’t disagree with your assessment.
> 
> 2) I enjoy getting 137,000 RCI points for my my $855 maintenance fee
> 
> 3) I live in the DC area. It is a close place that one can get into for most three day weekend with minimal planning, effort, and relatively small expenditure of points or dollars. Hiking is great around there and free. Skiing and water park can be fun, but at far from bargain prices.


How long have you owned? Wondering if anyone here has a historical list of MF at massanutten. Just picked up Regal Vista and trying to figure out where the MF would be going. I know always up but how far up, are we leaping year to year or taking the hot air baloon way up up and away? I feel like Grandview hasn’t gone up much at all and woodstone and regal may jump through the hoop.


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## TimeshareTraveller (Mar 28, 2020)

@escanoe, "
"The three year "term" on my account appears to be uniform transfer procedure for all transferred RCI points accounts .... and nothing Vacation Village has driven."

RCI Points are RCI property, not Massanutten.  As long as you do not let your membership lapse, the points are there.  If you let your membership lapse (the wording says they renew the points/bonus weeks every third year) then the points/bonus weeks will lapse.  To transfer the points, you pay RCI a $98 transfer fee. Those were salesman lies you were hearing.


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## CPNY (Mar 28, 2020)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> @escanoe, "
> "The three year "term" on my account appears to be uniform transfer procedure for all transferred RCI points accounts .... and nothing Vacation Village has driven."
> 
> RCI Points are RCI property, not Massanutten.  As long as you do not let your membership lapse, the points are there.  If you let your membership lapse (the wording says they renew the points/bonus weeks every third year) then the points/bonus weeks will lapse.  To transfer the points, you pay RCI a $98 transfer fee. Those were salesman lies you were hearing.


My estoppel says it’s a points ownership. Wouldn’t that mean it would always be that way as long as I keep paying RCI? On another note my closing agent screwed up the RCI set up


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## TimeshareTraveller (Mar 28, 2020)

Yes, that's correct.  It's the bonus weeks that will stop if you let your membership lapse for any significant length of time.  I checked the contract.  (We actually purchased last weekend and then rescinded afterward with the complaint that we feel that the resort fee is outrageous when no new services have been provided.  I kept the contract because it has my signatures.)

To transfer the points from one owner to another, you have to set up that transfer with RCI and pay them a $98 fee for the transfer.


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## escanoe (Mar 29, 2020)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> Yes, that's correct.  It's the bonus weeks that will stop if you let your membership lapse for any significant length of time.



What are these bonus weeks of which you speak? Do these transfers us mere mortal resale purchasers?

Are those the “Massanutten Extra” vacation in the RCI offers?  I haven’t used one yet. Been doing just as well or better with “last call” or “extra” sales. 

I can’t imagine why anyone (informed) would buy Massanutten from the developer vs. resale. I am not in love with the resort fee, but if you are buying one as an RCI points trader it probably works to your advantage. I can pay a lot of resort fees there out of what I saved buying retail (and you still get the owner rate if you purchased resale.)


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## DannyTS (Mar 29, 2020)

tschwa2 said:


> I am at Massanutten now and haven't done a tour in 5 years.  I thought I would see what they are offering to convert.  They kept insisting that points do not transfer upon resale.  That I could not buy points and even if I paid to convert my weeks they would revert back to weeks when sold.  I told them that I currently have a week 29 Regal Vistas in points.  They insisted that after 2 years of resale ownership it would revert.
> 
> Has anyone resold a points week and was their anything in the estoppel to the new owner indicating that it would revert to a week?
> 
> The final offer which I left before hearing but they called me back with was a $5995 new week worth 44,000 points every other year but I pay $230 per year and they would convert my week 30 Regal Vistas (89,000 for $515 MF), Week 26 Woodstone Deluxe (130,000 for $825 MF) and week 27 Woodstone Luxury (137,000 for $855MF).    I am supposed to go back and they are to have the contract ready in the morning.  I obviously know how to rescind and while I may not have time to go over with the fine tooth comb before signing (don't want to waste any more time) it will be gone over in the next 3 days.



I have recently bought a 4 BR EY 178k RCI points at Regal Vistas. My estoppel indicated that this was an RCI points contract. After about 7 weeks the transfer is complete, my RCI Points account is set up (new member) with all the points that I expected in the account. So indeed the guy's lips were moving


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## DannyTS (Jul 1, 2020)

Just an update to hopefully clear any incertitude for the future resale buyers.
This is the welcome letter I received:











All the documents received before the purchase (the estoppel from the resort and the Broker Verification Form directly from RCI)  confirmed it was an RCI points contract.
When my RCI Points account was opened, the initial membership term ended in 2023 (a normal 3 year term I was told) but I communicated with them through the live chat option they extended my membership term to 2026 without problems. There is no indication that there would be any issue after that


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## travelhacker (Jul 1, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> Just an update to hopefully clear any incertitude for the future resale buyers.
> This is the welcome letter I received:
> 
> View attachment 22756
> ...


Who did you call to extend the term expiration? I was hoping to get a 5 year RCI membership but had to settle for 3 -- which is fine, but I wouldn't mind extending now so it is one less thing to think about.

Thanks!


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## elaine (Jul 1, 2020)

I think 3 years is your commitment to RCI points vs. weeks. I have a different RCI points resort and I renew my Timeshare Points agreement with RCI points every 3 years-it's free-just confirming that you're continuing to participate in RCI points and not converting TS back in RCI to underlying week.. This is differ than renewing my RCI points account for which I pay an annual fee.
Once you "opt out" or don't renew at 3 years, you'd have to reconvert back via resort (usually for a hefty fee). So, don't opt out unless you're VERY sure. You can still reserve home unit/resort while in RCI points (never done that).


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## DannyTS (Jul 1, 2020)

travelhacker said:


> Who did you call to extend the term expiration? I was hoping to get a 5 year RCI membership but had to settle for 3 -- which is fine, but I wouldn't mind extending now so it is one less thing to think about.
> 
> Thanks!


I am going to edit the comment, I actually used the live chat option. I had already paid for a 3 year membership, I was thinking of paying for a 4th year. The agent extended the membership term just because I mentioned my intention.


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