# Hot tub conversation



## buckor (Nov 14, 2016)

So, my wife and I book a last minute trip to Panama City Beach this past weekend. It was a very nice weekend.

One evening I was out in the hot tub while my daughters swam. Anyway, met some wonderful people from various states around the country. Some how the conversation turned to Wyndham ownership and who owned what and who was at what levels of VIP, if any.

When it came my turn I explained that I owned about 1.2 million points with 1.1 million of those being resale. Everyone was astonished to hear you could buy resale!

They asked about how the process worked, what prices looked like for resale contracts, where to buy, etc. Then, I explained where I learned it all...TUG!

Hopefully those 4 or 5 folks will find Tug and learn more. One couple, in particular, was wanting to add a small contract to what they already own but had been putting it off because they didn't want to pay retail prices...they are ecstatic about adding to their Gold VIP with resale points.

Anyway, thought everyone would enjoy hearing about the conversation. Never know what will be said in the hot tub!

Blessings!


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 14, 2016)

Tiki bars are another venue for reaching the 'uninformed'. My brother knows nothing about Wyndham (sports and legal expect) ... but was amazed by the "E F Hutton" effect I had on multiple bar patrons ... and several free drinks.

And yes, hot tubs are good. Just remember to limit your time soaking.


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## ronparise (Nov 14, 2016)

buckor said:


> So, my wife and I book a last minute trip to Panama City Beach this past weekend. It was a very nice weekend.
> 
> One evening I was out in the hot tub while my daughters swam. Anyway, met some wonderful people from various states around the country. Some how the conversation turned to Wyndham ownership and who owned what and who was at what levels of VIP, if any.
> 
> ...



Did the question of discounts come up? and were any of these folks aware of how to capture discounts with the cancel and rebook strategy?


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## buckor (Nov 14, 2016)

ronparise said:


> Did the question of discounts come up? and were any of these folks aware of how to capture discounts with the cancel and rebook strategy?


We spoke about discounts but not cancel rebook. They had no idea that you could add a resale contract to an existing account and if that account is VIP that the benefits extend,  at least currently,  to the resale points too.

I sent them to TUG so I hope they look it up and learn more!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


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## pedro47 (Nov 14, 2016)

To the OP I hope you referred them to TUG BBS web site?


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## buckor (Nov 14, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> To the OP I hope you referred them to TUG BBS web site?


Absolutely!

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## Sandy (Nov 15, 2016)

*I love those hot tub conversations!*

They are fun and can be informing. What usually happens with me is that I am the one who has bought my timeshares with the least cost to  me.  As I begin to explain how/when I got into timeshare, some folks will ask questions and I always explain resale (and timing/luck) and refer them to TUG.  Others want to brag on their ownership packages which came at a much higher cost.

Some folks have a hard time admitting that they paid way too much. I am always ready to share that most folks do pay too much in the beginning, but can learn something new and reduce their overall costs with a little knowledge.


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## DaveNV (Nov 15, 2016)

Sandy said:


> They are fun and can be informing. What usually happens with me is that I am the one who has bought my timeshares with the least cost to  me.  As I begin to explain how/when I got into timeshare, some folks will ask questions and I always explain resale (and timing/luck) and refer them to TUG.  Others want to brag on their ownership packages which came at a much higher cost.
> 
> Some folks have a hard time admitting that they paid way too much. I am always ready to share that most folks do pay too much in the beginning, but can learn something new and reduce their overall costs with a little knowledge.




The day I attended my very first t/s sales pitch (for the $$$ show tickets) after buying my first t/s for $1 on eBay (Thanks, Tug!), an older couple raved to me with stars in their eyes of what a GREAT DEAL they'd just gotten, by trading in one thing and swapping another thing, and buying a third thing and whatever else they had done - all from the Developer, or course.  They went on and on and on all about it. Everything they said went in one of my ears and out the other until they got to the last sentence: *"And we got all of that for only $34,000!!!"* 

I pondered my $1 eBay purchase, which had gotten me to the same resort they were in, and the primary thought I had at the time is one that often comes to mind when I'm dealing with someone who has been royally taken advantage of, and doesn't know it:  _"Bless their hearts."_

I just smiled back at this dear couple, and said, "Wow. That's quite a price!"  They thought I was complimenting them on their great deal.  I wasn't.  I didn't know Tug well enough to say something at the time, but looking back, I kind of wish I had.  

It's been more than ten years now, and I often wonder whatever happened to them, and if they got their money's worth.  I kind of doubt it.

Dave


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## Sandy (Nov 15, 2016)

I fully agree with DaveNW. People don't know what they don't know, Bless their hearts!  Often they really don't want to know. 

Besides my hot tub talks, there have been many talks with people who have just come from a presentation and I urge them to rescind. They argue with me on the great deal, I explain the ins and outs, but they "know what is right." Eventually I give up and only hope them the best.  

These are the kind of people who later blame the timeshare industry as a scam, or who never learn how to use their purchases to get great vacations, despite how much they have overpaid.  I know these folks personally, in my extended family and friends. So sad that over the years only one of my friends took my advice and got a great deal.  At least 15 others bought on their best knowledge, after consulting me, and later let their TS go into foreclosure or some other loss.


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## DaveNV (Nov 15, 2016)

Sandy said:


> I know these folks personally, in my extended family and friends. So sad that over the years only one of my friends took my advice and got a great deal.  At least 15 others bought on their best knowledge, after consulting me, and later let their TS go into foreclosure or some other loss.




Oh, so then you DO know my brother?    He did exactly that. 

Dave


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## buckor (Nov 15, 2016)

"Bless their hearts." Southern slang for, "They have no clue." Ha!

I live in Alabama so I hear this all the time. What's funny is when I have a relative from another state come through and they want to say how everyone is so nice, especially when they say, "Bless their heart." I just bite my tongue and move on!

This hot tub conversation was a great one with everyone asking questions about the resale market. They just had no clue (bless their hearts) that you could purchase resale for pennies on the dollar. I told them about some of my "purchases" and they were shocked you could get a deal for $1 or less and just pick up the MFs. I told them I am picky so I watch for low MF contracts (I am blended at $4.92/thousand). Again....shock.

Most of them are already VIP so they were very interested to learn they could add a resale contract to their VIP account and get the VIP benefits on the resale....i told them to get it while it lasts!

Bless their hearts...

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## DaveNV (Nov 15, 2016)

buckor said:


> "Bless their hearts." Southern slang for, "They have no clue." Ha!
> 
> I live in Alabama so I hear this all the time. What's funny is when I have a relative from another state come through and they want to say how everyone is so nice, especially when they say, "Bless their heart." I just bite my tongue and move on!




I used to live in the South, so come by it honestly. A very useful phrase! 

Dave


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## buckor (Nov 15, 2016)

DaveNW said:


> I used to live in the South, so come by it honestly. A very useful phrase!
> 
> Dave


Yes it is!

   

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## pbarager (Nov 17, 2016)

We just got back from Glacier Canyon and we had a hot tub moment too.  A lovely lady with a million points was shocked to hear of our resale purchases.  She was a little embarrassed but listened close as we told her of this site and told the truth about the lies spewed from the sales weasels.  A younger couple who declined a purchase earlier that day where thrilled with the possibility of ownership.  BTW, the resort staff here was FANTASTIC and this will be a regular visit for our family!


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## elleny76 (Nov 29, 2016)

I would love to buy a VIP TS in resale..would this be possible?


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## TUGBrian (Nov 29, 2016)

these are always my favorite stories (other than confirmed rescissions!)

Last time I was at frenchmans cove, i held daily "chats" in the pool during happy hour (bar was really close) with owners who were amazed that resale even existed...many of them had recently JUST come from sales presentations (I guess you need a drink after them?) and were quoting some astounding prices!


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## 55plus (Nov 29, 2016)

elleny76 said:


> I would love to buy a VIP TS in resale..would this be possible?



You can only obtain VIP status by buying enough points directly from Wyndham or inherit/pass on a VIP membership from parents to children. It is spelled on in the WVO directory.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 29, 2016)

A few years ago -- maybe as far back as 2006 or so -- a bunch of us TUG types who decided to meet face to face in Orlando chose Wyndham Bonnet Creek's main lobby as our rendezvous point.  While we were assembling & greeting one another, a guy we did not know joined in, because of our friendly & conversational manner, I suppose.  He introduced himself as a retired farmer from Iowa.  He said he had just recently completed a 1,000,000-point Wyndham "equity consolidation" full-freight purchase.  He was beaming with so much pride over it that no one in the group felt like raining on his parade by mentioning resale timeshares, the outrageousness of full-freight timeshare prices, & all that.  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Passepartout (Nov 29, 2016)

AwayWeGo said:


> a retired farmer from Iowa.  He said he had just recently completed a *1,000,000-point* Wyndham "equity consolidation" *full-freight purchase.*  He was beaming with so much pride over it that no one in the group felt like raining on his parade by mentioning resale timeshares, the outrageousness of full-freight timeshare prices, & all that.  So it goes.



Sometimes ignorance *IS* bliss. I wouldn't have burst his bubble either.


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## Kaidel (Dec 7, 2016)

buckor said:


> We spoke about discounts but not cancel rebook. They had no idea that you could add a resale contract to an existing account and if that account is VIP that the benefits extend,  at least currently,  to the resale points too.
> 
> I sent them to TUG so I hope they look it up and learn more!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


I would like to know about cancel and rebook. Sounds intriguing. Is that a topic under Wyndham?


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## nicemann (Dec 7, 2016)

Kaidel said:


> I would like to know about cancel and rebook. Sounds intriguing. Is that a topic under Wyndham?


It is for VIP members.  If you are not VIP it will not get you a discount.


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## John_and_Val (Dec 7, 2016)

How come Wyndham isn't buying these ebay contracts back? If they don't want mega renters.....the could buy back any contract out there and resell themselves, right? We all know they are in the rental business, why not be in the inventory collection business?


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## ronparise (Dec 7, 2016)

John_and_Val said:


> How come Wyndham isn't buying these ebay contracts back? If they don't want mega renters.....the could buy back any contract out there and resell themselves, right? We all know they are in the rental business, why not be in the inventory collection business?




What makes you think they arent buying back inventory?

Here is a quote from Wyndham Worldwides  4th quarter 2105 earnings call..  This is CEO Steve Holmes talking to the brokerage community about the Vacation Ownership Division  "...innovative methods for sourcing inventory reduced our cost of goods sold." and this is from the 1st quarter 2016 call  ." We're sourcing lower-cost inventory through cycled inventory "  These comments were in addition to their discussion of Ovation 

I think its pretty clear from these comments that Wyndham is in the secondary market.  Whether or not they have employees bidding on ebay auctions directly or through straw men or some other indirect means, I think they have ways to get their hands on ebay inventory


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## jmurp62 (Dec 7, 2016)

Love the hot tub conversations at Wyndham. I was at Bonnet Creek and Panama City over the last 8 weeks, just got back last Friday sniff sniff. I also love to explain all I know and have learned from this awesome forum! I actually have over 1 million points I need to get rid of since I recently retired and can no longer afford the fees. When I start talking I ask if anyone bought within the last week or so and then talk about the value of resale and suggest they rescind the purchase. I had one couple who just added points to the tune of $20K, on a Wyndham rewards credit card no less. They were so happy and started the process to rescind that night. I think I got a few interested in my deeds for sale too. I hate to give them back to Wyndham just to have them reel in someone else for thousands of dollars! Keep those hot tub conversations going!


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## nicemann (Dec 7, 2016)

ronparise said:


> What makes you think they arent buying back inventory?
> 
> Here is a quote from Wyndham Worldwides  4th quarter 2105 earnings call..  This is CEO Steve Holmes talking to the brokerage community about the Vacation Ownership Division  "...innovative methods for sourcing inventory reduced our cost of goods sold." and this is from the 1st quarter 2016 call  ." We're sourcing lower-cost inventory through cycled inventory "  These comments were in addition to their discussion of Ovation
> 
> I think its pretty clear from these comments that Wyndham is in the secondary market.  Whether or not they have employees bidding on ebay auctions directly or through straw men or some other indirect means, I think they have ways to get their hands on ebay inventory



Humm so they could buy back let's say a CWA and resale them as new developer inventory?  That would be really smart on their part.


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## ronparise (Dec 7, 2016)

nicemann said:


> Humm so they could buy back let's say a CWA and resale them as new developer inventory?  That would be really smart on their part.



Or they could take back a week at Fairfield glade, for example, put it into CWA and sell the points thereby created for $200/1000 points.  (Or in my case take the 12 weeks at avenue plaza, I gave them;  convert to over 1.5 million points by depositing to CWA and sell for $300k)

Good work if you can get it


There are old discussions here on tug (pre ovation) that talked about the so called post card companies where some of us wondered why Wyndham was passing up the profit potential of recycling inventory.  It looks like they came to the same conclusion and are acting on it


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## John_and_Val (Dec 7, 2016)

but yet.....they bark at us for bending the rules.....


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