# Parenting Question - Am I being Unreasonable



## ajhcmaj (Aug 19, 2011)

My wife and I are having a disagreement.  Looking for some feedback/guidance on this issue.


Our 12 year old son would like to purchase an XBox Game System.  He has saved up enough money for it, mainly from 3 or 4 people that gave him $50's for his birthday.

Currently he has PS2, Nintendo DSixl, Gameboy, Wii.  Between the four systems he has about 75 games.  He wants the XBox because he thinks it is a better system and because all his friends have it.

So now my points.

1) he already has enough technology
2) he doesnt deserve it because this summer alone he was grounded from all electronics for about 50 of the 80 summer days
3) he misbehaves more days then then just the 50 of 80.  He is to emotional and cries often, slams the doors, etc.
4) he is A student and in the gifted and talented program at school, however the amount of time we had to spend on him about doing his homework made it seem like we were in schol
5) I dont want another thing that we have to take away from him.  


Any thoughts to reinforce my stance or reasons why I am being unreasonable.  I have told him that if he behaves better, isnt an emotional kid crying when they dont get there way, doesnt get a 50% on papers in school and then finds a way for extra credit to make up a bad grade, he could get it.  But he doesnt want to hear that.

Thanks


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## loafingcactus (Aug 19, 2011)

Have you thought about change these vague negative requests into a postive SMART goal?

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Realistic
Timely

If the kid can see though the "game" and balance out a 50% paper with extra credit, he knows how to meet goals to get what he wants.


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 19, 2011)

*Parental Solidarity Is Essential.*




ajhcmaj said:


> My wife and I are having a disagreement.  Looking for some feedback/guidance on this issue.


Having both parents solidly in agreement on the decision is more important than whatever the particular decision turns out to be. 

Otherwise the kids can & will jump into their innate whipsaw mode of manipulating mom against dad & vice versa.  

That has to be nipped in the bud.

( Just saying. ) 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## siesta (Aug 19, 2011)

Just because he has alot of systems isnt an excuse not to get another one, forgive the double negative. If the behavior and school reason is the issue then stick to that, those are much more valid arguments.

He is a good student from what you said, other than a few behavioral issues which are probably more hormonal than anything but obviously i dont know your kid. he deserves, IMO, to spend his gift money on what he enjoys, and he obviously enjoys games. Maybe talk to him about taking the ps2 and the games in and getting some money back as surely he wont play that once he has a xbox 360 in the house, as well as any other system just collecting dust.

Im willing to bet majority of his friends have the game system, and majority arent as good a student as he.


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 19, 2011)

The xbox system is better than anything else. He is just a guy that wants the best technology. I am like that myself.


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## paxsarah (Aug 19, 2011)

I think I would separate his desire to buy more technology from the fact that in disciplining him he tends to lose privileges for using those electronics. If he knows that he stands to lose frequent use of the system if he makes bad choices, and still wants to spend his money on it, so be it.

I would, however, predicate it on eliminating one of the existing gaming systems - I agree with the pp who suggested selling the PS2 and games. (Of course, if I could convince my DH to get rid of his PS2 collecting dust, I'd have a lot more credence on this issue! :rofl: )


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## suesam (Aug 19, 2011)

I would say he needs to earn it. Sounds like he has not this summer. At his age the money is still yours. Maybe if he can prove he is mature enough to behave better in the next 80 days he can buy it for a  Christmas present for himself. 
Just my opinion. 

Sue


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## ronparise (Aug 19, 2011)

I probably have no idea of what Im talking about here. My daughter grew up before the computer age, so I never had to face the same issues that you and your son are facing today...so my comment has nothing to do with the technology.... and by all means dismiss it as the ramblings of an old fool if you like

Im always in favor of picking you battles...and dont sweat the small stuff..one more game system seems to be small stuff to me

It sounds like you want to deny your son something because its easier on you...ie one less thing to deny him...and that you see this as an opportunity to try to get what you want ie a kid that dosen't cry, or slam doors or is otherwise emotional

Denying him the x box, instead of teaching him something, seems to be punishment for being an emotional kid, (crying slamming doors etc)....I dont think an x box or lack of one will make him into something he isnt. Let him have the x box as long as he agrees to share it with you and his mother...and buy some games that you can all enjoy together


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## chellej (Aug 19, 2011)

The PROBLEM with the xbox is that they hook it up to play halo or other online games and it becomes obsessive.

My Oldest son sold his when was was in college because it was too big of a distraction to his studies... his freshman roommate flunked out because he was playing all the time.  For his college graduation present he wanted an xbox and now is mature enough to balance play with his time off after work.

My youngest son is like yours, GT program but spent too much time playing either xbox or wow....they are addictive to kids  and ended up getting mediocre grades and we were fighting with him to do the work to just pass.  He never had a problem understanding the material, just taking the time (away from his games) to do the work.  He almost didn't graduate.  He is now getting ready to deploy to Africa....which he volunteered for (he is in the Texas Guard).  His brother insists he signed up for infantry because he thinks it is going to be like Halo.  The games glorify war.  I am proud that he wants to serve but hope he really understands what he is getting into.


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## CapriciousC (Aug 19, 2011)

paxsarah said:


> I would, however, predicate it on eliminating one of the existing gaming systems - I agree with the pp who suggested selling the PS2 and games. (Of course, if I could convince my DH to get rid of his PS2 collecting dust, I'd have a lot more credence on this issue! :rofl: )



I think this is a good idea - it addresses the issue of him having so many systems, which I think is valid.  I hate to see anything lying around the house that my child just doesn't use/play with anymore.  Surely there's someone else that would be interested in it.  A friend at work has two sons around your son's age, and they like to save their allowance to buy used games and systems because otherwise they'd have to wait for major gift opportunities like birthdays or Christmas to get them.  Then when they tire of something, they sell it at one of those used gaming stores.  

We have a "one in, one out" rule in our house.  For every new toy that comes into the house, an old one has to go to charity.  (My husband has proposed the "reverse Thunderdome" system - namely "one toy enters, two toys leave" - but I find that one a bit Draconian).



suesam said:


> I would say he needs to earn it. Sounds like he has not this summer. At his age the money is still yours. Maybe if he can prove he is mature enough to behave better in the next 80 days he can buy it for a  Christmas present for himself.
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Sue



I like Sue's idea.  Perhaps you could even sweeten the deal a bit by offering to pay interest on the money while you hold it for him?  We do this for our daughter - we pay better than the bank, but not much - 5%.  I think it teaches her the value of NOT impulse buying, and also how money grows if you save it over time.


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## Conan (Aug 19, 2011)

I don't have real specific advice, but from a big picture perspective, I think your goal heading into the teenage years needs to be that your child will learn to take responsibility for himself.

The endpoint you should hope to reach is a child who can head off to college and into the adult world equipped to make good choices. I don't think carrot-and-stick is the best way to get there.

I think you should try to be more hands off in the homework department, and where possible let him make and hopefully learn from his own mistakes. If he buys the X-Box, spends too much time with it, and his middle school grades suffer, maybe it'll be a learning experience for him?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 19, 2011)

XBox is what they all have, it's the system that most kids use these days, it's the one that allows them to go "Live" and play with their friends.  I'd consider letting him get it with his own money if he agrees to package up a bunch of the older systems/games and take them to GameStop for a credit.  Electronics these days generate so much waste with all the frequent upgrades and "latest fads" so I can see why you're thinking that one more system is a foolish choice, but maybe turning in some of the old ones will make you feel better about that.

Forgive me, but I wonder if his "emotional, crying, slamming doors" bothers you more because he's a boy and should "act more like a man!"  He's 12, his hormones are running amok, he's less in control of his emotions simply because of his age.  He'll grow out of that.     In the meantime you can teach him coping skills that you would rather see - give him a punching bag in the basement, put him to work cutting the grass, ask him if he'd like to join you in running the track at the local high school.  Whatever, just give him an outlet to let off steam that's safe and acceptable for both of you.

Grades are key.  That's the one thing where parents have every right to demand that their kids give as much effort as they're capable of giving.  I agree with the other poster who said that he's probably already aware that if his grades suffer, he's as likely to lose XBox privileges as any of his other electronics.  It's okay to make that a condition of his purchase - he'll just have to live with the consequences.

We have another thread going about living with teenagers - good luck, it's a bumpy ride for most every parent!


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## Chrisky (Aug 19, 2011)

There are some excellent ideas here.  My idea would be to tell him if he wants to spend his money on the XBox, then one old one has to go, either to charity or resell it with the games for it.  But I'd put some conditions on his purchase.  Does he have any chores to do?  I'd explain why I'm not keen on the XBox - addictive, grades suffer etc.  Then the conditions would be chores have to be done, and good grades have to be maintained.  If these things don't happen, then he loses the use of the XBox for the time it takes him to improve his grades.  I would even go so far as to sign a contract with him - all parties agreeing to the conditions.


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## scrapngen (Aug 19, 2011)

I love seeing all of these ideas...

Having browsed through them and thought a bit, I have another thought that could take from several of these.

First of all, living in a techy area, I agree w/ several posters that the xbox is very cool technology - latest, greatest and that he should be allowed to get it w/ his saved money. Most of the money was given as a gift, after all, and he should be able to get what he really wants. Let him have something cool and fun. You do say that he gets good grades. I think it is easy to see all the negatives and how it makes things harder for you - but by focusing a bit on the positives life w/teenagers might be easier to get thru...After all, he'd be choosing to stay home out of trouble. He's not doing drugs, etc. 
The ramifications of possibly spending all his time to the detriment of school and chores is a very real concern, though. 

I like the idea of some sort of contract or trade-off. Since it is a sedentary activity, maybe he needs to also agree to some sort of scheduled active pastime that he does weekly, as well as have some rules regarding homework. Even though he is buying it with his money, it is still your house and he is underage, so he needs to abide by your rules or it is taken away. 

I know that many families around here only let their kids game on weekends.
Others say only after all homework is done, or 1 hour a day, or have some other time limit. 

I also agree that one other game (at least) must go. He could even sell it on ebay - or use one of the other suggestions here. I keep trying to do this with toys and clothes in our house. A never ending battle! LOL 

Anyway, good luck and know that whatever your decision is, it's probably a good one if you've taken this much time to think a bout it.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 19, 2011)

XBox Live costs money to hook up to. Who is going to pay that ongoing bill?

Yes, it is additive. All his friends have it - is most likely true. Should he be the odd man out as he enters his teenage years? 

All these gaming systems do not involve actual physical activity which most of the hormones need to burn out of their system. My sister got her oldest into karate - it improved his attitude and self descipline greatly. Make it a package deal - has to do both and you will pay for the online bill as long as he does the karate every week (and works on getting his belts).


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## Numismatist (Aug 19, 2011)

Forget the behavior, I would spend some time thinking about how all that technology is being used?

Is it forming addictive patterns in his brain/behavior model?

Is it replacing other activities, like outside play, engaging conversation?  Any burgeoning obesity issues due to lack of movement?

Is he trending towards the more violent games over creative/thoughtful/learning games?

Things like that.


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## suesam (Aug 19, 2011)

Something to think about...just because his friends have it is a terrible reason to get it. IF his friends all go get drunk when they are 14 is that ok? I have learned through my two boys and some pretty stressful situations that other parents are pretty poor indicators of what good parenting is and what it is not. 

Gotta go with your own instincts...not those of other parents. I have a college senior and a college freshman and I did not let either of them take any game system to college....even though it was theirs bought with their own money. I just do not think those game systems are good for kids.  Again.....just my opinion. My son who is a very successful college senior told me during his freshman year of college that it was VERY hard to have me as a parent in high school. LOL. Now as a senior with a lot of worldly experiences under his belt, he tells me he will be much stricter as a parent than I was.  

Thank goodness my husband and I agreed on most parenting issues. That would be a tough one. 

Sue


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## jaym (Aug 19, 2011)

Another vote for selling, or better yet donating (see below), some of your son's other gaming systems.
Check out this organization for some ideas......
http://www.get-well-gamers.org/faq.php

I can relate, my two sons are/were game crazy since that age. Both in college now and they still play but it has become more occasional. Boys that age live and breath gaming.....not like when I was a kid and we played outdoors, almost everything. Built forts, played ball, rode bikes. Hung on the corner, etc.
I always found it tough to watch my kids spending a beautiful day in their room behind a game controller. It's an unfortunate consequence of the era and only likely to grow worse with each generation. Girls seem to be more into their cellphones, incessant chatter, and social connections via the internet, web surfing.

I would make the acquisition of the XBox system contingent on choosing a game system to help those less fortunate, let him be very involved with the process.
We were adamant about game play only after homework time, not always easy to enforce but be consistent with rules you set for them.
Parenting is hard. I think I know how you feel. I feel that the kids cannot comprehend the certain failure they'll endure if they have everything their way. At 12 yrs. old, it is your job to push them where they need to go. But you also need to find opportunities to let them make decisions and demonstrate responsibility. best of luck....


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## pjrose (Aug 19, 2011)

*Develop a Contract.  He can buy it, but he must earn its use*

First, I am not a fan of video games at all.

I would focus on the behavior not the actual physical device.  It's his money and I would let him buy it but ONLY after we had worked out a signed contract about expectations, privileges, and so forth.

Put in what he can expect from you: 

Parents will provide love, respect, housing, food, medical care, education, clothing, transportation....and so forth.

And what you can expect from him:

He will be respectful, polite, cooperative, help (how much) around the house, keep his room reasonably neat and clean, homework without nagging, do well in school, practice instruments....  

What he can earn from that is certain rewards - x hours of TV, y hours of video games, going out with friends, friends over, etc.  

What he can lose WITHOUT that is those rewards.  

He can also work toward a goal - I hadn't seem SMART goals before, but that's what we did with DD and her tattoo.  We added that if she wanted a special reward she could set a goal and earn it.  She said tattoo, we discussed placement, size, type, etc, we made a written contract on how she could earn it and its limits, and she earned it.

I wouldn't make buying the game system the goal - again, it's his money - but I would restrict using it or any other fun stuff to a privilege to be earned with his good behavior and cooperation.  

Having a contract worked with my DD. When things got better with her we sort of abandoned it, and I wish we hadn’t, because things are really bad again now.  We have to make up a new one.


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## siesta (Aug 19, 2011)

All these moms worrying about violent games makes me laugh. Reminds me of my mom! ladies take a chill pill, us men find action/"violence" entertaining, get over it. Just cause we watch violent movies and play violent games doesnt mean we will become insensitive to it and become homicidal psychopaths.

And for the lady that blames halo for why her son wasnt doing well in college, thats sheer lunacy to blame it on video games. Blame it on his own irresponsibility for allowing distractions (games, girls, drugs, parties, whatever it is) from keeping him away from his daily tasks and studies, for which is the reason he is at college in the first place. Believe me, if it wasnt a game console it would have been something else keeping him from it. The fact that he sold it shows that he lacked the self control required, but at least had good enough judgment to sell what was distracting him.

Blame people for their obsessions, not what they are obsessing over.

Btw mature games are meant for mature audiences 17+


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 19, 2011)

I play xbox live at my house every Sunday with my married children and grandchildren.  We play halo and kinect games. Kinect is a motion sensor.  The kinect games are very physical.  It brings us all together for pure fun. Our friends also bowl and race and box on xbox kinect at our house. Video gaming is very different these days. I suggest you start playing xbox with your son.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 19, 2011)

siesta said:


> All these moms worrying about violent games makes me laugh. Reminds me of my mom! ladies take a chill pill, us men find action/"violence" entertaining, get over it. Just cause we watch violent movies and play violent games doesnt mean we will become insensitive to it and become homicidal psychopaths.
> 
> And for the lady that blames halo for why her son wasnt doing well in college, thats sheer lunacy to blame it on video games. Blame it on his own irresponsibility for allowing distractions (games, girls, drugs, parties, whatever it is) from keeping him away from his daily tasks and studies, for which is the reason he is at college in the first place. Believe me, if it wasnt a game console it would have been something else keeping him from it. The fact that he sold it shows that he lacked the self control required, but at least had good enough judgment to sell what was distracting him.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I'm following your logic.  Mature games are for 17+ but we "ladies" shouldn't have a problem with our 12-year-olds playing the violent ones with the Mature rating?!  That makes no sense.  I'm pretty sure there are reasonable dads out there as well who appreciate that there is a rating system in place and it's to your child's advantage if you follow it.

I do agree that you blame the kid and not the game when he focuses all his attention on XBox to the detriment of his studies, but there's nothing wrong with recognizing that the games do cause addictive behavior and you should probably spend some time discussing that possibility with your kid before you send him off to his room or a dorm with an XBox under his arm and nobody watching him to see how much he plays.

By the way, I'm not sure that there's an answer to combat addictive behavior completely (not talking about substances here, just activities.)  When I was a kid I loved reading, still do.  And there are still times when I get so engrossed in a book that everything around me is tuned out.  My mother used to find me curled up in a chair in the living room when the laundry should have been put away hours before, and Don has come from work more than once to find me with my nose in a book and the supper not anywhere near being prepared.  It doesn't bother either one of us, we just decide if we want to cook and eat late or do take-out right away, but the fact is that XBox isn't at all the only activity that can distract a kid from his studies.  Wasn't there a TUGger in a related thread who admitted that she didn't study for a college final because she couldn't put a novel down?


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## siesta (Aug 19, 2011)

Suedonj, i never said it was ok for a 12 year old to play a game rated for mature audiences. Some 12 year olds are more mature than others, and should the parent feel he is mature enough that is their responsibility.

The OP can get his kid an xbox and not get him halo ... Or any other mature game.


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## Pat H (Aug 19, 2011)

I suggest you have him call into the "Suze Orman Show" and ask "Can I afford it?".

I agree with the others who have said that 1 of the other systems must go first.


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## Numismatist (Aug 19, 2011)

siesta said:


> All these moms worrying about violent games makes me laugh. Reminds me of my mom! ladies take a chill pill, us men find action/"violence" entertaining, get over it. Just cause we watch violent movies and play violent games doesnt mean we will become insensitive to it and become homicidal psychopaths.
> 
> And for the lady that blames halo for why her son wasnt doing well in college, thats sheer lunacy to blame it on video games. Blame it on his own irresponsibility for allowing distractions (games, girls, drugs, parties, whatever it is) from keeping him away from his daily tasks and studies, for which is the reason he is at college in the first place. Believe me, if it wasnt a game console it would have been something else keeping him from it. The fact that he sold it shows that he lacked the self control required, but at least had good enough judgment to sell what was distracting him.
> 
> ...



Just for the record...I'm not a Mom!:rofl:


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## MelBay (Aug 19, 2011)

I remember agonizing over these game system decisions & acquisitions. Drove me nuts.  Now mine are grown up and are both engineers, so i don't feel like those games did them too much harm.

Let him have it.  JMHO, of course, but I'm a softy mom.  Just ask MY husband....


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## am1 (Aug 19, 2011)

Give him an education on what he can spend that money on in the future.  A car, trip, college or something else.  If he still wants it let him waste his money.


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## chellej (Aug 19, 2011)

siesta said:


> And for the lady that blames halo for why her son wasnt doing well in college, thats sheer lunacy to blame it on video games. Blame it on his own irresponsibility for allowing distractions (games, girls, drugs, parties, whatever it is) from keeping him away from his daily tasks and studies, for which is the reason he is at college in the first place. Believe me, if it wasnt a game console it would have been something else keeping him from it. The fact that he sold it shows that he lacked the self control required, but at least had good enough judgment to sell what was distracting him.
> 
> Blame people for their obsessions, not what they are obsessing over.
> 
> Btw mature games are meant for mature audiences 17+



I didn't blame the game for my son not doing well in college because he in fact did well in college and now has a very well paying engineering job

His Freshman roomate flunked out.....He saw the harm it caused and the addictive nature of it.......BTW he doesn't drink or party either


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## Patri (Aug 19, 2011)

A friend's son essentially flunked freshman year because he played his college pals' games and overcompensated, since he was not allowed to play them at home in high school. So it goes both ways. Not really the issue.

I've lost count of the systems my kids have. They use XBox now, but for reminiscing purposes pull out the other ones at times. Sometimes these things cycle, and down the road everyone will want the retro games.

The money is the child's. If the system had been a gift, would you have let him keep it? He should be allowed to spend on what he wants as long as it's legal and safe. If he doesn't play the old stuff but it belongs to him, let him decide what he wants to do with it. If it's put into a box in the closet, so what?

By the same token, let him take responsibility for his grades and behavior. You don't have time to be back in middle and high school. Set guidelines for homework, sleep, exercise etc. and then enjoy your son.


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## Phydeaux (Aug 19, 2011)

Attempting to close the barn door after the horses have left is what came to mind when I read the OP's post. 

Clearly, a child of this age has already learned that they can rebel like this when things don't go their way. Sorry if this hurts, but I'm writing as I always do. No PC crap.

You've raised your child to believe that rebelling, slamming doors, cries at 12?,  is acceptable, and they can get away with it. You did..or it wouldn't be happening now, and you wouldn't be posting this. A child comes into the world with no preconceptions, no prejudices, no biases, no boundaries. They are taught. It begins day one. Kids are like sponges, wouldn't you agree?

Time to back up, and regroup, and re-establish the rules,i f you're prepared to do it, and parent your child for success. 

I've never had tantrum issues, etc. with my son because frankly, we don't tolerate that behavior in our family. No, he's not a perfect angel, but we would NEVER allow slamming doors, screaming, or any such behavior. My wife and I have raised our son under the premise of _mutual respect_. He is now 21 y/o and on the Deans List, Honor Roll, he's a private pilot, extremely cool and a young man that my wife and I are proud of. When our son was 13 y/o, he flew an aircraft. He soloed 2 years later, before learning to drive a car. This has nothing to do with your situation, and yes, I may be bragging just a bit. This is provided just to shed another perspective (we discouraged video games from day one, except for his flight simulators since these helped in his flying. We don't consider these video "games" however, since they have a direct benefit to a _measurable outcome_ - his flying. Even today, he warms up before flights by flying virtually on the computer the day or two before he flies. (I see zero redeeming benefits of hours playing video games, unless the individual goes on to become a programmer of such games. Less than .06% of graduates).

We have friends with children the same age as our son and they have no social skills, have great difficulty talking with elderly, children, adolescents & many adults, and spend way too much time indoors behind a video screen playing video games. Trust me, if your kid is a straight "A" student, but can't talk and relate to people of different ages/sex/background/etc., good luck when they attempt to enter the work force and go for that interview. I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing that many of the vidiot generation/daycare nation have extremely poor interpersonal skills. I'm not suggesting or implying your child is a vidiot, I don't know you - I'm sure you're much too good a parent to allow them to spend a disproportionate time behind a video screen or computer.

Best wishes and good luck. Our children form our future


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## DebBrown (Aug 19, 2011)

Regarding the Xbox, I'd let him buy it with his own money.  I think kids should be allowed to spend their own money as they please.  Let him have some control over his own life.

But I also agree about giving up another system.  AND I'd make sure you have agreed upon restrictions, # of hours per day/week, only after homework and chores, etc.

I'm a bit concerned with the amount of supervision you are giving your son for his homework.  At his age, he should be able to work independently.  You want him to learn to do his homework because it is his responsibility, not because his parents are breathing down his neck.  Sometimes you have to let them make mistakes.  Better now than in college or as adults.  Kids can learn alot from failure.

Good luck!  It sounds like it is a rough patch for all of you.  

Deb


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## C30NY (Aug 19, 2011)

There are a few key main points among all posts I see here.  Let me recap as most every one I had was touched up

1) positive reinforcement, not negative
    - he needs to earn the privledge, not lose it.  Reward behavior, grades, etc...

2) video games are not the devil.  If the devil is in him, it's there.  A violent or adult game will not make him go nuts.  Many children raised in good homes grow up to be not so productive adults, while many children raised in terrible homes and face adverse conditions grow up to be highly productive adults.

3)  it's his money, but he lives under your rules.  Clearly video games are ok in the house so an xbox with his money should be fine too.

4) I agree old game systems and games need to go.  Trade in, donate or craigslist them.

5) At 12 years old a child should not really be crying like you describe.  I'm sorry, but he shouldn't be.  There are underlying issues here that most likely result from crying getting his way in the past.  That behavior just needs to be corrected.

6) most young to middle aged adults grew up on video games...atari, C64, coleco, nes, etc...some even made careers out of gaming.  Maybe see how deep his interest runs.  There are many games that you can design custom level, characters, skins...etc.  Gaming is a multi billion dollar industry, send him down the career path early (programming, computer science, etc...).  Who knows...it would be great if a passion can become a career!

Best of luck!


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## akbmusic (Aug 19, 2011)

For whatever it's worth, if he saved up money for the Xbox, regardless of how he got it, he should be able to spend it as he pleases - JMHO.
What stuck out to me was the behavior issues coupled with the gifted and talented that you posted. I am also a mother of a 12 year old son who is in gifted and talented, and he also had some homework/behavioral issues in the past year. 
Middle school is tough for kids, figuring out where they fit in. My son did some ornery things last year because he felt being in gifted and talented made him "stick out" (his classmates nicknamed him the professor) and he didn't feel like he fit anywhere. He wasn't being provided with enough of a challenge and he got bored with schoolwork  besides. 
Most gifted  students are more sensitive and emotional. Sometimes they comprehend/understand things intellectually that they have a difficult time dealing with emotionally because they lack maturity. 
It sounds like, from all the gaming systems/games he has, he doesn't lack for things... Maybe he just needs some jobs/responsibilities at home (our son cleans bathroom sinks, unloads the dishwasher, and helps with laundry), or to be encouraged to try some new things/explore new hobbies.
Does he play chess? It's a good age to learn...
Just some random thoughts.


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## lvhmbh (Aug 20, 2011)

We are the guardians of a very bright 14yr old.  He is in HS hockey as well as travel hockey so he is very busy.  When he bought his Xbox he sold his other systems and the games.  The Xbox has actually helped his dexterity and when he made a very sophisticated goal for his age coach asked him where he learned it.  His reply was Xbox hockey.  He does work out everyday. Never had an issue with crying and he has always been in honors.   I'd say to give it a try. JMHO, Linda


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## Tia (Aug 20, 2011)

Yep agree  both parents need to agree and back each other. Parents may have to negotiate in private come to a compromise then stick to the united front. 



AwayWeGo said:


> Having both parents solidly in agreement on the decision is more important than whatever the particular decision turns out to be.
> 
> Otherwise the kids can & will jump into their innate whipsaw mode of manipulating mom against dad & vice versa.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

Just my 2¢ worth:

First, 12-14 is a very hard age for kids - the hormones of puberty along with the social pressures are murder!  I once had a counselor tell me that if Jr. High kids were evaluated by a counselor as one would evaluate an adult, most would be considered certifiable.  

Some people have said to take a hands off approach on the homework and let him reap the consequences.  I totally disagree.  Your average 12 year old lives in the moment.  All adolescent studies show that kids this age do NOT think at anything approaching an adult level.  They have great difficulty understanding long-term consequences.  Most 12 year olds need a lot of structure and a consistent routine at home, with homework being one of the top priorities.   

I am also concerned about (excessive?) crying at the age of 12.  It could be several things, but I'd want to talk to a counselor about it:
-Is the child under stress that you may not be aware of - maybe friends or a situation at school?
-Does his stress load seem normal, but he can't deal with it?
-Is he depressed?
-Is he being rewarded for acting out with sympathy, or attention, or getting what he wants?

Yes, all 12 year-olds cry, but if it's happening all the time, I think you need to know why.


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 20, 2011)

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




DeniseM said:


> Some people have said to take a hands off approach on the homework and let him reap the consequences.  I totally disagree.  Your average 12 year old lives in the moment.  All adolescent studies show that kids this age do NOT think at anything approaching an adult level.  They have great difficulty understanding long-term consequences.  Most 12 year olds need a lot of structure and a consistent routine at home, with homework being one of the top priorities.


I learned that the hard way -- to the lasting detriment of my kids, I fear. 

One idea, which I believed at the time, is that kids need to learn on their own, including the lesson that there are consequences to not doing what they were supposed to do (e.g., homework assignments). 

A better idea, to which I subscribe now that it's too late, is that by regularly helping kids with homework, the kids learn that _Homework Is Really Important -- So Important That The Old Man Puts Aside Whatever He Was Doing & Helps Me Do Homework._ 

Actions speak louder than words. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

Alan - I learned the hard way, too.  As I posted in another thread, my oldest child intentionally failed the 8th grade.     I did things differently with her brother who is 4 years younger.


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## Big Matt (Aug 20, 2011)

Make an agreement with your son that limits screen/game time to a certain number of hours per day/week, what time of day, and before/after homework.

Then give more or take away time based on his behavior.  

Let him buy the xBox.  It is his money, and you probably wouldn't be asking yourself why if it was a $200 musical instrument or something like that.

I'm in my late forties and grew up with arcade games like PacMan, etc.  Those days are over.  The on line stuff is here to stay.  Kids will grow up with different types of toys, just like I grew up with color/cable TV (when my parents didn't).


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## ondeadlin (Aug 20, 2011)

Parenting is an art, not a science.

My dad and my kids would both be laughing out loud at some of the things being posted on this thread, because they're so alien to what they're both used to.  It's his money? My dad's response would be, "It's his money when he can pay to support himself, until then it's just another way for me to show him the difference between good decisions and bad decisions."  Then he'd probably shake his head and wonder what the hell's wrong with people these days.  He was quite the curmudgeon long before he was old enough to be a curmudgeon.

We have three kids between 11 and 4 and they abide by very different parenting rules than most.  There is no television in our house Monday through Friday for children. None.  There is no television for adults until the kids go to bed.  There is some television on the weekends, if everyone is taking care of their responsibilities.  There is even more limited Wii and DS time.  There is no Internet unless it is directly required for school.  All adults are addressed as Mr. or Ms. unless they are a relative or they request otherwise.  It is made clear to them that everything they have or want to have has to be earned and can be taken away for poor behavior or academic performance. We do not believe in "positive reinforcement" alone.  There are frequent punishments of various sorts if expectations are not met (know why? Because employers and professors don't believe in "positive enforcement alone, either).

They hear "no" a lot. They also hear "We love you," and "We're proud of you." a lot.

They love the library and playing sports.  They love video games and TV, too, they just know it's not what we do here.

They oldest are performing well above grade level at school. 

They're not perfect.  The oldest needs to be reminded to do her work (mostly because it comes so easy to her that she coasts).  The youngest loves being the class clown and sometimes takes things too far.

Slamming doors? Oh boy, that just would never happen here.

But should you parent like I do? I would never say that.  As I said above, parenting is an art, not a science.  Nobody knows your kids like you do.  Nobody knows your values and your upbringing and what you're trying to accomplish as a parent.  When you take a strict approach, it almost certainly stifles some creativity.  When you take a hands-off approach, it almost certainly leaves the kids to learn some lessons on their own by trial and error.  There are plusses and minuses to either.  You should do what works for you. 

So I would take everything offered here with a huge grain of salt.  You have to find and follow what you and your wife are comfortable with, and if you have different opinions - I think most couples do at some time - you should talk until you work out a good compromise.


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 20, 2011)

*Nobody Gets To Have A Better Past.*




DeniseM said:


> I learned the hard way, too.  As I posted in another thread, my oldest child intentionally failed the 8th grade.     I did things differently with her brother who is 4 years younger.


Even though I am not wholly reconciled to the past, I no longer waste emotional energy trying to improve it.  What's done is done.  Over.  Final.  Case closed.  All sins of omission & commission have become _mox nix_.  So it goes. 

A good friend for life from college days deliberately flunked out of U.Va. when we were both 3rd year students (juniors. in non-U.Va.-speak).  My friend & fraternity brother lost the motivation & the drive & got interested in other things that made it well nigh impossible to keep up with his studies.  He did not have the heart to tell Mom & Dad back home that he was dropping out.  So he quit going to classes & took a night shift asst. orderly job at the hospital.  By failing everything, he forced the dean to make the decision at the end of the semester -- i.e., he got suspended (flunked out).  That way his parents could not talk him out of it.  He could no longer continue at the university if he wanted to. 

The story has a happy ending.  After a hitch in the army, my friend applied for reinstatement at U.Va., changed majors, & graduated with a BA.  He got a MA elsewhere in Virginia & a MFA at Columbia.  He joined the faculty of the University Of Vermont, from which he retired recently after a successful career as creative writing professor.  He's a published author & poet himself.  He married his college sweetheart when they were both young.  They have 2 daughters, both married a year or 2 ago. 

When thinking about the past, I try to keep in mind a piece of the _Wisdom Of      __Semi-Tough_http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQprZ51061274, to wit:  What could have happened, did.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2011)

IN MY OPINION (the unsciencific method): The average 12yo male has an attention span of 3 words spoken to him unless it involves sweets, pizza, scary movies, and going to a friend's. Making a contract is just an exercise to get whatever it is that he wants. He gets it; he has won - part 2, the consequence of HIS not following though to the terms, hardy ever happens.

My almost 11 yo nephew learned this summer he had better read and answer my emails. I ain't his mother;  the job offer was $24/day. The trip was to Animal Kingdom. As he starts school this coming week, he missed out on his usual source of funds and a trip to Florida. For birthdays, no money is handed out - I take the birthday boy out to breakfast (no cake or ice cream, just 2+ hours of one-to-one talking to the un-fun aunt  ). And it is an early breakfast or if they choose to sleep in, then his mom and I will go.  

Life moves on. There are rules to life. There are consequences to their actions. And my 3 nephews (18,16,10) love the routines - including the past 15 years of them making Xmas breakfast for the family - quiches and muffins, served hot at 9AM. Last 2 years, they wear their elf hats, too. Maybe, I will get Xmas tree aprons (with lights for this coming Xmas morning) ...

Added: One Xmas AM the older boy was a PIA. He played video games and didn't help at all. He tried to take "thank you" credit until the middle boy call him out and verbally (and loudly) told him off. Their dad had to separate them as the older boy was double the size of his brother. The next Xmas, older boy was back to being helpful chef ... he might have be 12.


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## akp (Aug 20, 2011)

*I have a 12 year old boy.*

I haven't read the other responses so please pardon if this is redundant but here are my thoughts:

1) From your description of the last school year, it sounds as if you and mom are more concerned about his school performance than he is.  I subscribe to the theory that the kid doesn't worry about it if the parent is doing the worrying for him.  Be willing to let him fail now, when he's 12, unless you're willing to be this involved for many years to come.  You have to figure out the right balance, but if you're having to work that hard, YOU are in the gifted program and he's not.  My son TANKED in 4th grade badly.  It was painful to let him fail, and I was tempted to save him but did not.  For him, 5th and 6th grade were fantastic.  He learned the lesson.  (My daughter also tanked in 4th grade, worse than the boy even!  Dreadful grades for a girl that smart.  I am hoping she learned the lesson as she just started 5th.)

2) My son has every gaming system ever.  We got him the xbox, and he has purchased a Wii himself plus some older handheld systems.  The "too much stuff" aspect of it really stresses me out, so I can relate on that point.  However, my son knows that even if he purchased these things himself, his use of them is at our discretion.  If I'm getting attitude, they're gone .  Luckily he doesn't like to upset me and is quick to apologize if he's gone astray so groundings haven't been necessary, but I've definitely limited his access to any / all technologies as needed.

3) I'm big on earning privileges.  In your shoes, I'd likely set a goal about ONE or maybe two specific behaviors.  Like "if all homework is turned in on time and without my involvement from now through conferences, you can purchase the xbox."  

4) You and your wife definitely need a united front.  I will often tell the kids that dad and I are a team and back each other up.  

Good luck to you!  

Anita


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## Nickfromct (Aug 20, 2011)

ajhcmaj said:


> My wife and I are having a disagreement.  Looking for some feedback/guidance on this issue.
> 
> 
> Our 12 year old son would like to purchase an XBox Game System.  He has saved up enough money for it, mainly from 3 or 4 people that gave him $50's for his birthday.
> ...



I think you are being totally reasonable. Time to get your wife on board.


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## akp (Aug 20, 2011)

*A comment about parents & homework*



DeniseM said:


> Some people have said to take a hands off approach on the homework and let him reap the consequences.  I totally disagree.  Your average 12 year old lives in the moment.  All adolescent studies show that kids this age do NOT think at anything approaching an adult level.  They have great difficulty understanding long-term consequences.  Most 12 year olds need a lot of structure and a consistent routine at home, with homework being one of the top priorities.



I just posted essentially myself then read your post and wanted to add two comments.

First, there are many, many options between daily hand-holding and sink-or-swim.  I'd say either extreme would be a problem, and it sounds like OP is on the daily hand-holding end of the spectrum.  

I posted just now that both of my kids tanked in 4th grade.  We have a lot of structure, there is homework time in our house, education is clearly very important (dad is an MD and I have two masters degrees).  The kids know their job, they were given at birth all the skills they need to do them, and we make the environment appropriate for them to do it (ie, not overscheduled, plenty of time and quiet space, etc.) but the rest is up to them.

Second, the fact that kids have great difficulty understanding long-term consequences is a GREAT reason to let them experience those consequences for themselves with they are 10 or 12 or 14.  We aren't talking "run in the street and see how it feels to get hit by a car" consequences, but rather "darn, not doing my homework means I get B and C grades instead of all As and that really stinks".  That is a very appropriate and reasonable consequence and is in direct proportion to the actions the kids take.  I will never forget the look on my daughter's face when she looked at her final grade card of 4th grade.  Nor will I ever forget her attitude two weeks before school started this year when she said "mama, I hated that.  I'll never do that again."

Kids can and should handle failures if they aren't doing what they're supposed to do.  We should not always save them, IMO.  I could have intervened with teachers, nagged, double checked work, etc.  Grades would have been better but lessons would have been lost. 

Anita


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

Anita - We will have to agree to disagree.  Not all kids care if they fail - it's not always a good lesson.  For some, it just makes it easier to accept failure.  When my daughter failed the 8th grade - she did not care...  and both of her parents are teachers who have emphasized education her whole life.  She was a sweet and cooperative elementary student, who became a stubborn and angry Jr. High student. We didn't really see it coming, and by the time we discovered she was failing the 8th grade, it was too late to do anything about it.  

Also the OP's son is 12 - giving a child the option to choose to fail, especially by the time they are in Jr. High, can have far reaching consequences - like being held back in school, dropped from gifted programs, and denied access to college Prep classes.  I don't think a 12 year old is mature enough to make that decision for themselves, and the consequences can effect them on into high school and college.   

With my son, (4 years younger) we were much more structured about homework, and he definitely needed the structure because he has Asperger's syndrome.  He internalized that structure, and now he is a very organized college student.  I know that if we had allowed him to choose the road to failure, he wouldn't even be in college now.   When Scott entered high school, he was placed in all Special Ed. classes and we were informed that he would be working toward a "Special Ed. diploma," because of his learning disabilities.  (i.e. not getting a diploma.)  We said, "Absolutely not!"  Every year in high school he added one or more regular class to his schedule, so that by the time he was a senior, he was completely mainstreamed, and he graduated with a regular diploma.  Now, he's about ready to graduate with an AA in English, and transfer to a 4 year college.


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## akp (Aug 20, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Anita - We will have to agree to disagree.  Not all kids care if they fail -.



You got it   I know one size does not fit all, and I'm lucky that my kids did care.  

Anita


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## DeniseM (Aug 20, 2011)

akp said:


> You got it   I know one size does not fit all, and I'm lucky that my kids did care.
> 
> Anita



My daughter was very angry with her father and I because we were going through a divorce at the time - she was punishing us, and she did a pretty good job of it!  How better to punish your school teacher parents!  

Now she is a Jr. High teacher and enjoys the company of children who are just like she was!  Karma got her!  :rofl:

She tells them - "I was just like you and it was a big mistake that really hurt me in high school."  Of course, hindsight is 20-20!


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 20, 2011)

*Join your son!  Play with him.*

There's no need for a battle. There is nothing wrong with owning multiple systems.


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## ronparise (Aug 20, 2011)

MelBay said:


> I remember agonizing over these game system decisions & acquisitions. Drove me nuts.  Now mine are grown up and are both engineers, so i don't feel like those games did them too much harm.
> 
> Let him have it.  JMHO, of course, but I'm a softy mom.  Just ask MY husband....



There were a few years when I took my daughter to the Smithsonian at least once a month. We spent most of our time in the art galleries...In college she majored in art. I guess its my fault she grew up to be a starving artist. Thank god she married a gamer, who became a software engineer and brings home the bucks working in silicon valley


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## wauhob3 (Aug 20, 2011)

His hormones are probably going crazy hence the easy tears and slamming doors. Slamming doors even by accident was a pet peeve of my grandfathers and he would enforce a open and shut the door properly 50 times rule as a punishment.  Parents know their children the best and have to decide what is best for their child. For my child missing assignments or poor grades resulted in doing school work at the dining room table with supervision and loss of the computer and tv. She was never a gamer. I would let him purchase it but I certainly would take away gaming rights altogether for poor school performance.  

We had an electronic grading system so it was easy to monitor. We also frequently discussed her grades and any challenges. I told her it was her job to be a good student and my job as a parent to make sure she was living up to her potential or give her consequences if she didn't. I explained if she didn't she was going to have less choices in colleges and less likely to become what she wanted to be. There was drama when she was younger and then in 7th grade things really started clicking.  It is important students take responsibility for their own work and not have parents bail them out too much in 7th grade on because it needs to click and they need to be self motivated for the high school years. My belief is there needs to be frequent discussions on what they see themselves doing to support themselves and a family and the path they need to take to accomplish it.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2011)

lvhmbh said:


> We are the guardians of a very bright 14yr old.  He is in HS hockey as well as travel hockey so he is very busy.  When he bought his Xbox he sold his other systems and the games.  The Xbox has actually helped his dexterity and when he made a very sophisticated goal for his age coach asked him where he learned it.  His reply was Xbox hockey.  He does work out everyday. Never had an issue with crying and he has always been in honors.   I'd say to give it a try. JMHO, Linda



What is a very sophisticated goal?  Xbox hockey is not going to help with real hockey like that.  It may help with hand eye co-ordination.  Lets not make an Xbox out to be any better than it is.


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## Zac495 (Aug 21, 2011)

I read a lot of responses.
Here is mine.
1. It's not about the new system. XBOX 360 is the best at that age. Sell the others and buy it if things in the house (behavior etc) warrant it. Who cares if he wants new technology? Haven't you ever wanted a different kind of phone just because even though you already have one? It's a better phone with different devices. 

2. XBOX live needs to be monitored (considering you get it). If you do a search here on Tug about what happened to my son 3 years ago .... he was approached at a gamestop store and ended up getting hurt by an employee who talked to him via the game. So BE CAREFUL. I am not saying XBOX live is dangerous. I don't even mind mature games for 14 year olds (of course the standard age is going to be higher than necessary to cover their butts - so if it's 17 rated, probably ok for most 14 year olds -use your judgment). Facebook, Youtube, internet in general without parental monitoring is dangerous along with XBOX.

3. No kid deserves any of these things. We as parents give them things because we do think they deserve to have enjoyment just like we do. I love my computer and need my DVD recordings... adds to my life. XBox adds to my son's. THAT SAID - when he's obnoxious, I can take it because I own the air he breathes in this house  and until he's independent.

4. You and your wife must quietly get on the same page and be unified or you're finished.

GOOD LUCK
Ellen


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## AKE (Aug 21, 2011)

I would not let him get another electronic toy, no matter how hard he presses you.  He is 12 - what are you going to do with him when he is 16 or 18 if you constantly give in to him?  I raised 3 boys.  They were not allowed to have electronic toys aith a few exceptions and they have all thanked me for being tough.  A 12 year old should be out socializing with his friends, playing sports etc and NOT being on a video screen all day long.  I hate to be tough in my comments but you will have a social misfit on your hands down the road if you dont lay down the law right now.


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## lprstn (Aug 21, 2011)

This is what we do with my now 16yr old. He wanted the PS3 and he had all of these other games systems to. We had him gather them all up (his xbox, his ninetindo his wii with games) and TRADE those suckers in :-D for money towards the new system. Gamestop allows you to do this. He earned enough money on trade into get the one Ps3 and some games.  

Now we only have 1 system to take from him.

As for your son's behavior, my youngest is like that (my oldest was a bit too) we put him in sports and stayed on him (the oldest) and it seemed like in HS he just calmed down. Now the little one - we still have a long way to go, but I have hope he will settle out.

Oh, and like what Zac495 (Ellen) be careful with access to online games. Kids also use it to surf the net for naughty stuff, if you get my meaning. Therefore my kids don't have gamesystems in their room or even TVs. That way if they spend too much time in their room where their 'toys' are not there with them we are tipped off that somethings off. And we watch them as they play, then disconnect it and put it away at night. But as for those surfing sites you also have to watch out for that with ipod touch too. So much for us to keep up with as parents.


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## Floridaski (Aug 21, 2011)

*I think you are being resonable*

I have a 13 year old boy, so I do speak from experience.  But, all kids are not the same.  I am not an expert, but many would agree that video games in excess are not good for most kids.  

YOU ARE THE PARENT, it may be old fashioned, but we have the stance that - we pay the bills, when you get a job and pay the bills in your home, then you can make all the decisons.

At 12, his hormones are nuts, he is in full blown puberty, may have braces, may have pimples - we all did, it is a the most diffcult age.  Hence the crying and all the emotions.  I do agree that you may want to seek professional advice if you feel that he may be depressed, because it could also be something more then just puberty.

Our son cries, is very emotional and we took him for a professional evaulation this summer.  It turns out he is fine, but we need to watch him closely.  He is very bright, in honors classes, makes straight A's - but worries about what others think about him, worries about his performance, basically worries about everything.  He needs very clear rules, needs to know what we expect of him and needs a very strong support system.  Kind of basic stuff for a 7th grader.

He does not watch TV or play video games during the school week unless all his homework is done and then it is 30 minutes of his choice.  He swims for 2 hours every day after school, so most nights there is just not time.  He will start to swim 1.5 hours (6 AM to 7 AM) 3 days a week in six months.  So, I suspect that he will have even less time to watch TV or play video games.

HE has made the choice to follow this swimming and acedemic path.  So we are blessed that he is diligent and is making wise choices.

Stay on the path that your gut is telling you.  If you allow him to win this one, how are you going to get him to come home at your curfew time when he is 16?  I know you love him dearly and it sounds like you are doing a good job.  Just do not be afraid to ask for help from the school or other professionals if you think you need it.

Enjoy him while he is still at home!  They grow up so fast...


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## glypnirsgirl (Aug 21, 2011)

When does he spend "face time" with other kids his age?

Is he in any service clubs, special interest clubs, religious activities? Does he participate in any sports? Does he play a musical instrument?

It concerns me that children spend so much time locked in their rooms with video games. I have a bonus son who came to live with us 3 months before his 18th birthday. He had always been allowed to stay in his room playing video games. 

He is now 24. He works 16 - 24 hours per week at an $8 hour job at WalMart. He had no friends in junior high. He had no friends in high school. He graduated from college with no friends. He has no idea how to have a conversation. He has no idea how to work. 

My bonus son who is gifted and talented and is a college graduate does not manage his life as well as my special needs son who has a sub-average IQ. The difference is my special needs son was actively encouraged to have friends over, attend youth activities at church, participate in sports. 

To a certain extent, you can choose which child you want - the socially inept misfit who spends his time on video games or the sociable child who has spent time getting along with others. It takes work to have the sociable child. Having the video-gaming child is much less effort.

Children have no idea of the road that they are on and where it is leading. Some parents have no idea that allowing their child to be alone in their room is quashing the child's social skills. 

It is less work to allow the child to sit in his room with video games and more work to haul them all over town to get them to games, practices, friends' houses, and having kids over at your own home. It is worth the effort.

Every child needs balance in his life. He needs some time in physical activities (does not have to be organized sports). He needs some time in social activities. He needs some time in academic activities. And he needs some alone time that he can spend on a video game or other personal pursuits. He needs to "volunteer" at the local food bank, homeless shelter, battered women's center; some place where he can start appreciating what he has instead of yearning for what he doesn't have.

It isn't about the XBox.

elaine


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## geekette (Aug 21, 2011)

unless you have a pre-existing agreement about how he will spend his money, let him spend it on whatever he wants.  If he gets grounded from it, tough crap.  Let him find out the high cost of chasing technology.


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## SDKath (Aug 21, 2011)

Just came back from middle school orientation for my DD (11).

The FIRST thing they said is that 90-95% of the homework needs to be done ALONE with no parent input.  At this age, there is no way we should be sitting with our kids all the time to help them do work.  They are mini-adults and they need to learn from their mistakes before it's too late.  I have a straight A student (who is quite independent) but I feel like this year she is going to be on her own with me there for her only if she asks....  We'll see what happens.

My DD collected money for herself for a Macbook AIR this year (after doing chores, house sitting, pet sitting, asking for $ instead of toys for birthdays...).  I really didn't want her to have a laptop to play on all the time but I could not say no to the hard work it took her to get $1000 together.  So I let her buy it.

She was on the computer ALL the time for the first 2-3 weeks.  I quickly got on her case when I realized that my fears were coming true and now very strictly limit her time on the computer (and TV and games).

It's a constant battle but you just have to do it, otherwise these computers and games just suck the kids in.  UGH.  

Either way, you cannot prevent your son from buying the game system.  It's totally unfair to him.  So let him get it (and I don't really see where this "you must donate another" attitude is coming from since that is essentially a punishment for him, which is also unfair to him since he collected the money).  Then monitor his time closely.  And monitor his academics.  If he does well, you have nothing to fear.  If he starts to slip, you can step in and intervene at that point....  JMHO

Katherine


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## suesam (Aug 21, 2011)

I agree with Ellen. 
FWIW
Parenting is really, really hard!!!
Good luck! 

Sue


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## Phydeaux (Aug 21, 2011)

suesam said:


> I agree with Ellen.
> FWIW
> *Parenting is really, really hard!!!*
> Good luck!
> ...



Really? My wife & I never thought so. What's so hard?


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## lvhmbh (Aug 22, 2011)

Our 14 year old is required to have a laptop - they prefer Mac and the school configured it.  He uses his IPad (he paid for) most of the time as the Mac is designated for school.   I asked him, BTW, if he knew everyone he was gaming with on the Xbox and he said yes, they didn't allow anyone else in.  Can't tell you how it works though lol!!!


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## Elan (Aug 22, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> When does he spend "face time" with other kids his age?
> 
> Is he in any service clubs, special interest clubs, religious activities? Does he participate in any sports? Does he play a musical instrument?
> 
> ...




  Agree completely.  Very well put.


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## DeniseM (Aug 22, 2011)

lvhmbh said:


> Our 14 year old is required to have a laptop - they prefer Mac and the school configured it.  He uses his IPad (he paid for) most of the time as the Mac is designated for school.   I asked him, BTW, if he knew everyone he was gaming with on the Xbox and he said yes, they didn't allow anyone else in.  Can't tell you how it works though lol!!!



How can a school possibly require a student to have a laptop, unless the school provides it?


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## ronparise (Aug 22, 2011)

Denise

I heard a discussion on PBS recently about the schools that are not teaching handwriting,(cursive)   Its an obsolete skill, no longer needed. Keyboarding on the other hand is required. 

When my daughter was in elementary school (1975-1980) she brought home a list of required supplies. pencils, pens, paper, notebooks, etc, not provided by the school, that we had to buy

It seems to me that to send your kid off to school today without a computer today, is no different that sending them without a notebook in 1978


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## DeniseM (Aug 22, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Denise
> 
> I heard a discussion on PBS recently about the schools that are not teaching handwriting,(cursive)   Its an obsolete skill, no longer needed. Keyboarding on the other hand is required.
> 
> ...



The thing is that it isn't legal to require a student to provide something so expensive in a public school.  At my school, 90% of the students can barely afford school supplies, much less a laptop.  They don't even have computers at home.


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 22, 2011)

Zac495 said:


> I read a lot of responses.
> Here is mine.
> 1. It's not about the new system. XBOX 360 is the best at that age. Sell the others and buy it if things in the house (behavior etc) warrant it. Who cares if he wants new technology? Haven't you ever wanted a different kind of phone just because even though you already have one? It's a better phone with different devices.
> 
> ...





I agree with you. Additionally, how many is too many board games or footballs? Enjoy video games with your son. It is his generations way to play. The knee jerk dislike of game consoles is mistaken. 

Find a way to understand and like what he likes.


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## scrapngen (Aug 22, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> How can a school possibly require a student to have a laptop, unless the school provides it?



They didn't specify if it was a public or private school. My assumption would be that their child attends a private school. There are some schools (private) in this area that require a laptop for each student - in fact, I think at one you have to purchase a specific laptop! - if you already have one and it's not the right brand or configuration, you have to get a new one!


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## Darlene (Aug 22, 2011)

Is he your oldest child? 
Darlene


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## laurac260 (Aug 22, 2011)

Last night I watched two shows on Current TV. Both about narcotics and/or heroin abuse.  There are hundreds if not thousands of people traveling to Florida to take advantage of the oxycontin drug trade going on there.  All legally written prescriptions.  The state of KY has the biggest oxy problem in the entire country.  That's just a hop skip and a jump from where I am sitting right now.   Massachusetts is not far behind.  There was one small town in Appalachian KY where the local sheriff said "There is not a family in this town that has not been affected by oxycontin abuse, and 90% of it comes from Florida.

They interviewed a few kids in the Boston area who said that pills are rampant in the high school where they attend.  Pills and heroin.  One mother lost her son to oxy at 25, her living son is an addict.  The son's wife died of oxy overdose at 23. 

I bring this up to tell you, crying, slamming doors is the least thing you have to worry about.  Keep your kid in your corner.  Set parameters, but don't get so caught up in the ego match that is surely coming as he matures that you lose track of him.  These families have lost their kids forever.   It really put things in perspective for me.  My parents were worried about marijuana.  That's looking like candy these days.  Just my two cents.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 22, 2011)

There was a Dear Amy article about this topic in today's newpaper. I understand emotional teenagers but no excuse for slamming doors whatsoever.

I must admit I gave into my 11 with Halo (killing aliens and you can eliminate blood and I don't believe there is cursing) but not Black Ops but I limit it to free time after he's done any homework or summer reading, his guitar and any chores. He also is an active athlete so his workouts are done  first as well.

The problem is he does all that and then expects to play as long as he wants and the battle ensues. We limit it to no more than 2 hours in a day and we feel that is too much . 

He also loses it for a period of time if he curses or is disrespectful of his mother. Its actually quite a useful tool at times because he loves to play so much that  he'll do all that we ask of him, but it does get out of hand some time when he wants to just keep playing.


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## SDKath (Aug 22, 2011)

lvhmbh said:


> Our 14 year old is required to have a laptop - they prefer Mac and the school configured it.  He uses his IPad (he paid for) most of the time as the Mac is designated for school.   I asked him, BTW, if he knew everyone he was gaming with on the Xbox and he said yes, they didn't allow anyone else in.  Can't tell you how it works though lol!!!



Ditto here.  My 6th grader needed to have an internet connection at home  and now as a 7th grader they said during orientation last week that the children "definitely" need a computer and everything must be submitted on line (and typed on a PC) and they must have access to MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint (not Mac but PC versions).

It's not a private school either....

Oh, and neither of my children learned cursive.  Katherine


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 23, 2011)

OK, I'll add my 2 cents... such great comments, it's always interesting to see how differently we all think (one of the first lessons I had to learn when I had kids).

One of my favorite words of wisdom that I read somewhere along the way is something like 'the older they get, the more expensive the lesson'. I always kept that in mind and added 'and the harder to enforce'. 

I also say to trust your instincts. 

I also agree with Ellen (and things others have said), this is not about the xbox.  And strongly agree with those who say that #1 you and your wife need to agree (at least in front of your child) and provide a united front.

Ron, you say it's your "fault" your daughter is an artist, I feel the same way about my son (21) being a musician.  And that started with a similar gaming system scenario.  I really felt like he had too many and just couldn't see buying every new one that came out.  Our compromise was at least one guitar. He plays multiple instuments (anything he can get his hands on) and that might be my fault.  But I much preferred that he spend his time playing instruments than games.  And yes he still probably spent too much time playing games.  But I'm sure that today he spends more time playing guitar and keyboard (and bongos, and my accordian has disapeared - it is at his house).

I am not a fan of gaming systems or TV. I think it fries the brain.  Didn't let my kids watch TV prior to going to school, don't have a TV is my living room or kitchen. Didn't let the kids have TV's or computers in their bed rooms.  Well, no computers until the school issued them.  Until they had their school issued laptops, the only computer in the house was in the family room, in full view of whomever might walk by.  And yes our public school issued laptops, about 10 years ago to the juniors and seniors, today they have them starting in middle school.

And kids are all so different.  DD#1 doesn't have a TV in her apartment (3rd year med student, no money, no time) and rarely ever played games.  One of DD#2's  major purchases after getting her first job after college was a 42" plasma TV. Go figure.

Never had any issues getting daughters to do homework or to perform to their ability. Getting DS to do homework, starting in 6th grade was hell. There were times I was not sure all 3 of us (DS, DH, and me) would survive but somehow we did. I can totally relate to OP's thoughts, I can remember thinking 'do I really want to let him get something knowing that I'm just going to take it away'?  Although I also have to laugh, I did take some things away and then couldn't remember where I hid them. So my threat would be, 'you don't want me to take that away, you may never see it again'.

Because he is musically talented, and partipated in musical groups and plays, we thoroughly enoyed his high school years.  He is now taking classes at the local community college. Sadly, no current music participation (changed major to computer programming (which is a really good fit for him)). Last year he was in an acappella group (at 4 yr. college), loved it but had to laugh when he was featured at a concert (I got all excited thinking I was going to hear him sing a solo (he has a beautiful voice) -- and he beat boxed (yes, he is good at it, and the crowd loved it, but it was not what Mom wanted to hear ).  

So guess what I'm getting to is focus on the positives. They are there, find them and support them. Kids that age need you, even though they act like they don't. Hang in there, and yes, trust your instincts.


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## lvhmbh (Aug 23, 2011)

Not making Xbox out as any better than it is - hand eye coordination is VERY important in ice hockey.  As to the laptop - yes it is a private school.  They do have financial aid and help with procuring laptops for the kids that can't afford it but are admitted to the school.


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## pgnewarkboy (Aug 23, 2011)

*What you learn from video games*



lvhmbh said:


> Not making Xbox out as any better than it is - hand eye coordination is VERY important in ice hockey.  As to the laptop - yes it is a private school.  They do have financial aid and help with procuring laptops for the kids that can't afford it but are admitted to the school.



I play xbox games almost every week with the grandchildren. We play as teams online against players from all over the world. The grandchildren learn strategies and tactics. They also learn how to cooperate with the team members to reach a goal. They also learn how to get pleasure from a team members success. They learn that they become better players by practicing. All of this and more is learned without one word of lecturing by me. I get to be very close to them because I spend time with them as peers with a common goal. This leads to mutual respect. Which to me is a wonderful thing.


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## lvhmbh (Aug 23, 2011)

That's great Pgne!  Very important to learn teamwork!


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