# Fraudulent Misrepresentation by RealClub, Royal Playa del Carmen



## pvalone (Sep 10, 2010)

My wife and I purchased 120 weeks from the real club after a sales presentation at the Royal Playa del Carmen. We told both the sales rep, and her “manager” that we really would be only buying the weeks for their use with RCI, as we couldn’t see ourselves being able to get to Mexico often. It was then that the sales rep and, then the manager, went into detail about how RealClub membership worked with RCI and the guarantees we would have with booking with RCI. It wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that almost everything they sold us on, regarding the specifics of how their membership works with RCI, were completely untrue. Both the sales rep and her manager lied to us on the very aspects that sold us on their product. 

One of the reasons why it took so long for the discovery, is that it took over a month to get an RCI membership# and had no way for them to look at our specific account/membership and be able to verify the specifics. Furthermore, when looking at the contract, its language is silent when it comes to the promises made by the sales rep and her manager. There is nothing in the contract that contradicts their claims and promises made to us.  In fact, the contract confirms what they promised when it refers to being used among their hotels, but nowhere does it say those guarantees are only in regards to their properties, or that they do not apply when used with RCI. 

My question is, what is the best way to proceed with terminating a “weeks” timeshare contract on grounds of fraudulent misrepresentation? According to Profeco, the statute of limitations is 1year. We are 2months into our contract, our first payment for the timeshare will be mid October. Is it best to first lodge a complaint with Profeco and our NYS Attorney General’s office and then contact RealClub with our intent to terminate and demand for a refund? Or is it best to first just contact RealClub to terminate and refund?

I also will be informing RealClub that I have not yet posted my review on TripAdvisor of our stay at The Royal Playa. If there is a problem or delay with them terminating my contract and refunding us the money, I will make sure to take full advantage of that site to inform potential customers of their fraudulent tactics as well as provide links to many online complaints with RealClub, including those posted on ts4ms and other sites that filed complaints with Profeco. 

Thank you for your advice.

PV


----------



## taffy19 (Sep 10, 2010)

Here is a brochure that Profeco puts out in English.  There are two pages. It gives you an email address where to contact them. You need to follow the directions exactly as they explain it to you. They are a consumer agency and it will take a long time if or when you get your problem resolved.

Once you start a formal complaint, you do not have to make any payments. This is *how it used to be* but you better check this again as it may have changed over the years. If there is a phone number listed, you can call them too.


----------



## Jaybee (Sep 11, 2010)

Mexican timeshare Sales people = Fraudulent Misrepresentation.  I think it's part of the job description.


----------



## siesta (Sep 11, 2010)

unfortunately, I doubt profeco will be able to help you because, just like you say they lied, they can say they never said that to you and that your lying to get out of the contract, in the end you have he said, she said .. and the only proof of anything is a contractual agreement you signed which stated you agree to THOSE terms, not anything that was verbally promised. sorry, I hope I am mistaken and you can create enough waves for them to let you out. good luck.


----------



## pjrose (Sep 11, 2010)

Jaybee said:


> Mexican timeshare Sales people = Fraudulent Misrepresentation.  I think it's part of the job description.



Not true everywhere.  We have never had a problem at the Royal Resorts - everything was very straightforward and in the contract, and they even told us about TUG.


----------



## pjrose (Sep 11, 2010)

pvalone said:


> My wife and I purchased 120 weeks from the real club after a sales presentation at the Royal Playa del Carmen. We told both the sales rep, and her “manager” that we really would be only buying the weeks for their use with RCI, as we couldn’t see ourselves being able to get to Mexico often. It was then that the sales rep and, then the manager, went into detail about how RealClub membership worked with RCI and the guarantees we would have with booking with RCI. It wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that almost everything they sold us on, regarding the specifics of how their membership works with RCI, were completely untrue. Both the sales rep and her manager lied to us on the very aspects that sold us on their product.
> 
> One of the reasons why it took so long for the discovery, is that it took over a month to get an RCI membership# and had no way for them to look at our specific account/membership and be able to verify the specifics. Furthermore, when looking at the contract, its language is silent when it comes to the promises made by the sales rep and her manager. There is nothing in the contract that contradicts their claims and promises made to us.  In fact, the contract confirms what they promised when it refers to being used among their hotels, but nowhere does it say those guarantees are only in regards to their properties, or that they do not apply when used with RCI.
> 
> ...





siesta said:


> unfortunately, I doubt profeco will be able to help you because, just like you say they lied, they can say they never said that to you and that your lying to get out of the contract, in the end you have he said, she said .. and the only proof of anything is a contractual agreement you signed which stated you agree to THOSE terms, not anything that was verbally promised. sorry, I hope I am mistaken and you can create enough waves for them to let you out. good luck.



Hi PV; first of all, you are not alone. Others have had similar problems, and we often hear from them here on TUG.

I believe that creating waves is the way to deal with this.  Post all the details - names, dates, promises, etc - here and on other timeshare sites.  It is not uncommon for posts like yours to disappear after awhile with a request to remove the post because the problem has been resolved.

I wish those posts would stay as warnings to others....but they do get removed from time to time.

Please do post back with whatever happens; too often we get a post like yours, we offer advice, but we often do not hear back.


----------



## pvalone (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks guys for the advice. I tried to call the 800# on the profeco brochure, but it says it’s no longer in service. I just emailed Profeco for information on how to proceed, whether to first file an official complaint with them, or to first contact Real Club with our intent to cancel and demand for refund. I also found a Mexican law firm that deals specifically with these issues and has a good track record. Furthermore, they do not require an upfront fee. Only fees are paid if they cancel your membership and recover all your money. Here's their link: http://www.timesharescam.com/timeshare-help/

I already posted the general situation of what happened, but these are the specifics they lied about:

Karla was our sales rep and Ramon was her manager/supervisor. He was the closer, when we were about to walk away, because the cost was too high, he was the one who “was able to give us the best deal”.

1) Ramon told use that Blackout dates for REAL CLUB SILVER MEMBERSHIP ONLY apply to us (the buyers) and they DO NOT APPLY TO ANY BROKER that buys weeks from us.
Ramon told us that this was because the broker uses the weeks to bring in more clients for potential sales, and therefore they would not be limiting the time when brokers could bring in more prospective clients. We contacted Bobby Rudd from My Vacation Brokers (who is specifically with The Royal Playa) and he confirmed that the weeks he buys, are still restricted by the membership blackout dates. He stated the blackout dates we have with our silver membership, DO APPLY TO THE BROKER.

2) Both Karla and Ramon told us if we book a vacation at least 6months in advanced, we would be GUARANTEED the reservation. We were told because of our membership type, they cannot deny us. We told both sales reps, we were mainly interested in using RCI, rather than the real club membership in Mexico. We were told this was not only for Real Club, but also when we book with RCI. 
 We wanted to make absolutely sure of this, so we asked both Karla and then when speaking to Roman, we asked them if booking 6months in advanced would guarantee us the room and date with RCI and not just Real Club. Separately, they BOTH told us yes. Roman even went so far as to tell us to book a room at Disney’s Animal kingdom, as it is one the most popular places and we would be guaranteed our reservation if in 6months advance. We told him this was a necessity because of our kids school schedules and my because of my work.
RCI told us they could not tell us what was available until after we paid the exchange fee and deposited our weeks. Neither could they guarantee any week at any hotel even if requested 2 yrs in advance, much less 6months. When we called Real Club about this, the representative on the phone just said, they would have no way to guarantee that RCI can make a reservation for us and that the sales rep should not have told us that. When we again looked over the contract, where it talks about guaranteed reservations made with at least 180days notice, it never says it is for Real Club properties only. 

The contract specifically states: "Silver memberships will enjoy guaranteed reservations when reserving no less than 180days in advance" 

Nor does it state anywhere that it does not apply to booking with RCI. There is nothing in the contract that contradicts or negates this false claim made by Karla and Ramon.

3) Karla showed us a chart with room types and cost. The chart was not labeled if it was for per person/night, or if it was per couple/night.  Both Karla AND Roman told us the cost was PER COUPLE/Night, NOT PP/Night. To make sure there was not any confusion, we asked both of them, are you sure this is not per person. Again, they told us, it was per couple. With their chart, they showed us we could spend a 7nights in a Royal Junior Suite for less than a total of $1,000USD.
We just recently received an updated price list that confirms that the unlabeled chart the sales people showed us was priced for pp/night and not per couple/night as they stated.
After looking at the most recent discount member prices, it is basically the same deal you can find from Expedia, so with the thousands for the membership price, you are not getting much of a discount, in fact you end up paying more than anyone booking with Expedia or similar sites.

4) We were told that we could "easily" sell weeks starting right away. We were told that their brokers will buy them from a minimum of $500usd per week to $1000 or more/week. He showed that with our membership of $7995 for 120weeks, we were paying less than $70/week. We were told that two of their brokers require 5years to wait. However, Roman gave us business card and brochure for a 3rd broker, “My Vacation Brokers” that he told us we could use right away.  
When we called the broker when we got home, he told us he needed money up front and buys them at $250-$500/week. He also claimed there were buyers waiting to buy our weeks. Thankfully, before we contacted him we had read the warnings on this site. We emailed him in regards to deferring his payment, until after his “waiting buyers” bought our weeks. He never responded with an answer to the question.

5) We were SPECIFICALLY told by Roman, that we could sell our weeks on Ebay by listing our weeks as a week at Disney’s Animal Kingdom (thru RCI).
After calling RCI we found this would be virtually impossible to do legitimately.

6) Karla promised us free golf membership at their golf club (in Cancun). Karla specifically told us the golf membership would only require us to rent clubs and cart, and we would NOT HAVE TO PAY GREENS FEES. 
We later found this too, to be false. Our membership only gives us 50% off greens fees on top of rental and cart fees.


----------



## pjrose (Sep 13, 2010)

pvalone said:


> Thanks guys for the advice. I tried to call the 800# on the profeco brochure, but it says it’s no longer in service. I just emailed Profeco for information on how to proceed, whether to first file an official complaint with them, or to first contact Real Club with our intent to cancel and demand for refund. I also found a Mexican law firm that deals specifically with these issues and has a good track record. Furthermore, they do not require an upfront fee. Only fees are paid if they cancel your membership and recover all your money. Here's their link: http://www.timesharescam.com/timeshare-help/
> 
> I already posted the general situation of what happened, but these are the specifics they lied about:
> 
> ...



Interesting detail - thanks for posting.  I'll certainly stay away from Karla and Roman.

Research that firm before proceeding with them - I believe their name may have appeared on TUG / Mexico before.....but I don't remember the context.


----------



## pvalone (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks pjrose. With your advice, I searched TUG for GandG and found this post from TacoTerry:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97133

Resorts: Villa Del Palmar-Cabo Lake Chelan, Wa. Krystal-Cancun follow up on G&G 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Originally Posted by Karen G  
Please keep us informed as to the outcome. It will be interesting to learn what their fee is and how this all will play out. 

WE had a phone conference with the folks at G&G timeshare solutions, they were very upfront with us and seemed to be genuine in helping us and not just trying to get more of our money. After getting all the information from us during our call, Cindi, our attorney, gave us the news that we had less than a 50/50 chance of recovering any money from Krystal, but G&G can get our contract cancelled out. Guaranteed. We just loose all our money that we have paid to Krystal. Not a great option but it is an option. Our mf has already gone up before we paid our first one, what's next? We have to decide to either cut and run or dig in and fight, we're leaning towards a good fight.

They charge $1400 to cancel a contract and they guarantee that it will get cancelled, you pay them after the legal work is done, not before, like some of the other attorneys that we checked out.
They get 25% of any recovered money if you go that route, and that is a separate matter from cancelling the contract. Again, paid after the recovery is made. The consultation/ phone conference is free, Penner wanted $500.
just to chat
I had an e-mail forwarded to me by a tugger from a fellow who used G&G and he did recover his money, and it was paid out the same as we were quoted by G&G, and he would recommend using them to other folks, so they do seem to be honest and upfront. . . . ."


----------



## pjrose (Sep 14, 2010)

Hmmm....I'd be leery of G&G (or Gonzalez and Gonzalez?) given post #7 here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97133


----------



## flexible (Nov 2, 2010)

pvalone said:


> My wife and I purchased 120 weeks from the real club after a sales presentation at the Royal Playa del Carmen. We told both the sales rep, and her “manager” that we really would be only buying the weeks for their use with RCI, as we couldn’t see ourselves being able to get to Mexico often. It was then that the sales rep and, then the manager, went into detail about how RealClub membership worked with RCI and the guarantees we would have with booking with RCI. It wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that almost everything they sold us on, regarding the specifics of how their membership works with RCI, were completely untrue. Both the sales rep and her manager lied to us on the very aspects that sold us on their product.
> 
> One of the reasons why it took so long for the discovery, is that it took over a month to get an RCI membership# and had no way for them to look at our specific account/membership and be able to verify the specifics. Furthermore, when looking at the contract, its language is silent when it comes to the promises made by the sales rep and her manager. There is nothing in the contract that contradicts their claims and promises made to us.  In fact, the contract confirms what they promised when it refers to being used among their hotels, but nowhere does it say those guarantees are only in regards to their properties, or that they do not apply when used with RCI.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU for your informative posts. My husband and I went to a presentation at Real recently and I asked permission to pull out my netbook PC and check the internet for information on their resort. This is my routine M.O. at timeshare presentations. I always type:

"Resort Name" + complaint
and search TUG and a few other sites for the resort name.

Your post came up at the top of the list! I read your post to the representatives. Apparently those "Anytime Anywhere RCI weeks" were not what one might believe. I plan two years in advance. They told us we could get Edinburgh Residences in the highest demand month - August during http://www.edintattoo.co.uk/  by exchanging their resort.

We did not buy or sign anything because the resort requires AI (All Inclusive) and the food served during our breakfast was not up to our standards. Better than many restaurants but certainly not a breakfast like Grand Velas. They showed us their 5 diamond awards and Donald Trump's signature on it and told us that their food was on par with Grand Velas. Perhaps the chef took the day off. 
*
If EVERYONE on TUG that went to timeshare presentations would search TUG during the presentation perhaps AND read any possible concerns like yours to the liner/closer/management while there perhaps people like you and http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=837698 would have quicker resolutions. *



PJTSytms97 said:


> *I have reached a settlement agreement with the resort. As a condition of this settlement, I have asked the administrators to remove my previous posts from this thread.
> May I offer thanks to all who have offered support during this very long and difficullt situation. PJTSytms97*



I am unsure if we will upgrade any of our various timeshare contracts soon BUT I am certain any timeshare that does NOT fulfill their WRITTEN AGREEMENTS with me will regret it. I understand it costs money to run a safe, clean, relaxing and FUN resort with good food BUT if a timeshare thinks they can lie to me and I will not post it online they are mistaken. I was a software consultant for 20 years and have over a dozen personal hobby websites so I am familar with search engine tactics to be sure any future complaint will be one of the TOP search engine results whenever someone enters a resort name in quotes  + complaint.

Best wishes.


----------

