# Train schedules throughout Europe



## Teddie2 (Sep 25, 2011)

We are back and forth now with the train schedules as they are having an impact on the days we are spending in each place and our itinerary.
I am locked into a ticket rt NY to London..had I been smarter and researched before I made the purchase I would have done an open jaw but since I cannot that is solid which leads to my first question is it better to have a countryside trip to Italy in the middle of the trip or at the end
Two ways I can do this but the first gives me an extra day in Tuscany

Ny to London  6 nights (two visitiing Family)
London to Paris --5nights
Paris to Florence--6 nights
Florence to venice--2 nights
Venice to Lauterbrunnen --3 nights
Lauterbrunnen to Paris and Paris back to London -Day before we return home


The other way is 
NY to London
London to Paris  6
Paris to Lauterbrunnen 2
Lauterbrunnen to Milan 1
Milan To Venice 2
Venice to Florence 5
Florence to Paris (possible overnight but not sure if available) otherwise day train which loses a day
paris to London Day before we return

I was told the train schedules will change mid Dec for next year and they may not have many of the trains that are available now

It makes it difficult to plan this trip because if I a planning based upon train schedules I have to wait until Dec to be sure and some of the places I want to stay may be booked... 

Second Question
Has anyone booked a multi city trip like this using trains  _we really want to use the trains as a way to see the countries as well.-- and if so were you able to trust planning way in advance or did the schedules change significantly


----------



## Carolinian (Sep 25, 2011)

I have used trains for multi-city and multi-country trips in Europe on a number of occaisions, and particularly in Italy.  In most countries, the on time percentage is relatively good.  Other than my very first trip to Italy, I have always waited until I arrived in Europe and bought my ticket at the station when I was coming from the states.  Lately however, there is a lot more variation in price where you get an advantage for early purchase, especially in the UK.  If you buy in advance, I would do it from a European site in each country.  I have seen the European rail ticket agencies in the US jack up prices substantially over what was charged in Europe at the station, but how much varies by country.  Lately, I have used European rail sites to buy tickets online ahead of time where I could.

Your first itinerary looks best to me.

A great resource for European rail timetables, if you do not have a recent copy of Cook's European Timetable, are the websites of the German and Austrian railroads, which have schedules all over Europe.


----------



## x3 skier (Sep 25, 2011)

Train service in Europe is very robust between major cities. There are also Low Cost Carriers between major cities, www.whichbudget.com for ideas. I would make the major city reservations and then buy the tickets when you get there. Early purchase discounts are generally only available 60 days in advance but can be quite good.

If all else fails and the trains to/from Lauterbrunnen become inconvenient, you can skip it and take the Glacier Express for a good view of the Alps. Since your plan is to go Paris-Venice or vice versa, you can either include or drop Lauterbrunnen as the schedule permits since Paris to Venice will certainly be available. 

For a one stop look at train schedules, try http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

Have you inquired about changing your tickets to an Open Jaw? My experience is the change fee can be reasonable and you may be able to recoup that or other fare increases by avoiding the crummy departure tax from London. Another thing that frequently happens is the Airline Schedule changes and you can then make a change at no cost. I did just that when the schedule for my upcoming trip to Lisbon and Madrid changed. I was able to reroute myself to get an extra day in Lisbon for "free".

It really sounds like you need a good travel agent. While we Tuggers are glad to help, trying to piecemeal answer your many questions can lead to many conflicting pieces of advice, e.g. the medical thread. I would really take the answers you have gotten so far and get a good travel agent to sort it out for you.

That said, glad to help anyway I can. 

Cheers


----------



## Carolinian (Sep 26, 2011)

The UK is the place where early purchase makes a real difference, and at shorter timeframes than 60 days.  In France there is a rather close in discount, which is something like 48 hours beforehand, which can often still be bought at the station if you will be in town several days before leaving.  The discount is not as substantial as in the UK, but it is worthwhile.  Swiss tickets are easy to buy online from the national railroad, at the same price as you would pay at the station, and you print out your ticket on your computer.  For UK tickets, my Brit colleagues swear by www.thetrainline.com and in using it myself, I have been pleased with it.


----------



## Teddie2 (Sep 26, 2011)

*I read somewhere that I read somewhere the prices are more expensive the longer you w*

We were considering a rail pass since we are taking so many trains. I don't understand about the prices if I go online shouldn't  the price I see online be the same price as when I buy it?
 I have checked the prices for both point to point tickets and with a rail pass
 There is some different but not a lot
 Can I buy a rail pass in europe cheaper than in the US?
 I read somewhere The prices are higher For some trains If you wait I think that's for the high speed train


----------



## Laurie (Sep 26, 2011)

Your first itinerary looks best to me too. 

Lauterbrunnen is a great choice IMO, I don't think you'll regret working in those 3 nights! It just may be the highlight of your entire trip.

I can't answer your Q about train prices because we so rarely use train. I remember that I bought our Swiss rail pass before we left home and there was a reason to do that, which I can't recall - but we were in Switzerland for over a week. 

In your case, I'm betting that point to point will serve you just as well or better than passes, unless you're planning to use trains a lot within each country, not only to get to each country. 

Have you poured over Rick Steves' website for advice? That's probably a larger body of people who rely on train, for shorter visits to multiple countries, similar to your itinerary, and you can purchase rail passes thru them if you decide to do so.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Sep 26, 2011)

Teddie2 said:


> We were considering a rail pass since we are taking so many trains. I don't understand about the prices if I go online shouldn't  the price I see online be the same price as when I buy it?
> I have checked the prices for both point to point tickets and with a rail pass
> There is some different but not a lot
> Can I buy a rail pass in europe cheaper than in the US?
> I read somewhere The prices are higher For some trains If you wait I think that's for the high speed train



I believe the EuroRail passes MUST BE brought in the US - before your trip. In my distance past, the Western European one was a loser deal (could have brought point to point tickets cheaper). The Eastern Rail pass was a good buy early on, but there were several price increases afterwards. They were both very convienant to use.

*But * my friend who travelled the following year, found city-to-city buses faster and cheaper in both Czech and Hungary.


----------



## x3 skier (Sep 26, 2011)

Teddie2 said:


> Can I buy a rail pass in europe cheaper than in the US?
> I read somewhere The prices are higher For some trains If you wait I think that's for the high speed train



IIRC, you *have* to buy the Eurail pass in the USA. From what I have read, it is not a real good deal and you might lose some money if you decide not to use a portion of the pass.

The extra charges are for things like reserved seats, sleeper cars and special trains like Eurostar. There may also be extra charges for the ICE (inter city express) trains as well but as I have never bought the pass, or even considered it, I am not sure.

If there is an early discount and you buy it on the web, you will save money over the walk up price. For example, buying a ticket from Lisbon to Madrid sixty days in advance can be 40% of the walk up price on the day of travel (which is what I plan on doing tomorrow ).

Cheers


----------



## klpca (Sep 26, 2011)

Laurie said:


> Your first itinerary looks best to me too.
> 
> Lauterbrunnen is a great choice IMO, I don't think you'll regret working in those 3 nights! It just may be the highlight of your entire trip.
> 
> ...



We just spent a week in Lauterbrunnen in June. Oh my goodness. Awesome.

The Rick Steves website is pretty helpful with respect to train travel. I know that we bought a Swiss pass for our week which I remember save money (but still cost almost $700 for the week for the two of us  ). It was about a breakeven cost and we loved the freedom to get on any train and go wherever we wanted to go. You had to purchase it over here and it was mailed to us so you had to allow for mailing time. Have fun on your trip!


----------



## Carolinian (Sep 27, 2011)

Advance purchase in some European countries can save you a lot, and in others the price is the same whenever you buy.  Switzerland is so each to buy ahead online that I did not check to see if they cost more later.  The other countries you are travelling in do charge less ahead of time, but how much less varies.

If you are buying ahead of time, make sure you use a European site, preferably the railroads own site.  Many of the US based sites, including RailEurope have a common practice of marking up fares.

There are rare occaisions where rail passes save money, and they are more likely to apply to students than adults.  If you are comparing prices, do NOT use those from US based websites for comparision, as they are often padded.


----------



## colamedia (Sep 27, 2011)

London-Paris and Paris-London is Eurostar which is not covered by the Eurail passes, though if you have a Eurail pass you get a discount (Pass Holder Fare), but their advance purchase fares and other specials may be cheaper than the Passholder Fare. For a Eurostar passholder Fare you need a Eurail, Interail, or Britrail pass. It cannot be booked online, though you can book in advance by phone.

So you want to go France-Switzerland-Italy-France, that's 3 countries, you get a 3 country pass, you've got 5 trips in there, you get a 5 day 3 country Eurail pass, since you are not travelling alone, you can get the 1st class Saver rate, $428US for each 5 day 3 country pass. Then you factor in the Eurostar discount and compare pass with the advance purchase fares, and check if there are additional fees for reservations with the Pass for the trains you want, or if you can be relaxed and just turn up, which all depends on what time of year you are going and local holidays. 

You don't use a Eurail pass for local travel.  In London you can get a London Visitor Travel Card, but really, the local Oyster card will probably be enough and that way you don't have to decide how many days, nor worry you are getting your money's worth if you have a quiet day or 2, and the Oyster cards are very easy to top up at any station, the Paris Visite Card does seem sensible particularly when you factor in language and the disounts admissions available, but it will be worthwhile if you are getting around independantly, if you are going to do organised tours where they pick you up from the hotel and you get back late, it may not be worthwhile, or one of the other options may be better.


----------



## Laurie (Sep 28, 2011)

colamedia said:


> You don't use a Eurail pass for local travel.


From my memory, FWIW:

The Swiss Pass did cover most "local" travel, town to town, and cable cars up and down the mountains, and even boat travel on lakes, so came in handy in the Lauterbrunnen area. 

It didn't cover all local travel, tho gave a discount on most it didn't cover. 

It also covered the "scenic train" we took from somewhere we connected to, between Lauterbrunnen and Lausanne, where we boarded the TGV to Paris.

First class wasn't necessary for us - we saved big $$ by choosing second class, and there was almost no difference. 

Also, reservations can be an additional cost, can't they? I think we skipped that, and didn't have an actual seat for a few minutes on that scenic ride, but seats became available within a very short time, at which time our ride became the same as first class with a reservation. (It was like moving up to first class on an airplane, 10 minutes after take-off.   )


----------



## klpca (Sep 28, 2011)

Agreed, this was how it worked. In Lauterbrunnen, the Swiss pass covered travel up through Wengen, and after that it was either a 50% or 25% discount, I can't remember the exact discount. It also gave us a discount going up to the Jungfrau and the Schilthorn and we were able to take the boat ride on Lake Brienz for free with the pass. 

I don't believe that there was any markup on the purchase from the Rick Steves website. (I compared the cost to the Swiss rail site.) I did this to be able to purchase in US dollars, thus saving the foreign transaction fee, and I was able to use my Costco Amex and get the 2% reward for travel purchases.



Laurie said:


> From my memory, FWIW:
> 
> The Swiss Pass did cover most "local" travel, town to town, and cable cars up and down the mountains, and even boat travel on lakes, so came in handy in the Lauterbrunnen area.
> 
> ...


----------



## Laurie (Sep 28, 2011)

klpca, there used to be an RCI timeshare in Murren - probably my favorite exchange in my whole life, heaven on earth! 

The pass included transportation up to Murren as well, we probably used it every day, except maybe 1 or 2 days when we hiked from Murren. There was a funicular up to Murren, I hear the old funicular is gone now, but cable car's still there. Also there was a second lake right there, with free boat, we enjoyed both, getting off at a few towns, & castles, then back on ...

One day we walked thru the Lauterbrunnen valley, from the old funicular stop at Murren, to some waterfalls, then I think to a bus stop, and then cable car back up, at the other end. How gorgeous!!

We waited out the 1-in-4 rule, then had 2 weeks consecutive booked at the timeshare - unfortunately it closed down shortly before our reserved dates  - perhaps someday it'll reopen.

I'd love to go back some day - how fortunate you are to have just been there. If you have pictures posted, would love to see them.


----------



## klpca (Sep 28, 2011)

*Shot from Mannlichen - just above Wengen & Lauterbrunnen*

We'll see if this works - it's from facebook. Btw, this was shot with my husband's Nokia phone.

Is the resolution ok for everyone else? I never know if I'm doing this correctly.


----------



## colamedia (Sep 28, 2011)

klpca said:


> We'll see if this works ..... Is the resolution ok for everyone else? I never know if I'm doing this correctly.


It worked   and the resolution is fine  (once you click on the thumbnail)


----------



## billhall (Oct 2, 2011)

*BET  -  a good info/ticket source*

We used Budget Travel Euorpe (BET)  http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id19.html  for several years when we were mixing business travel thru Europe with personal side trips.  Their site and store had a lot of useful items and we were getting good Eurail Pass prices there too.

A month log Eurail pass led a LOT of great trips.   I understand that Eurail passes aren't the bargain they were around 2000 and before (and I'm way out of sync) but it's worth a look.


----------



## Laurie (Oct 10, 2011)

klpca said:


> We'll see if this works - it's from facebook. Btw, this was shot with my husband's Nokia phone.
> 
> Is the resolution ok for everyone else? I never know if I'm doing this correctly.


Gorgeous -- thanks!! 

We took the cable car up to Mannlichen one day, then walked to Kleine Scheidegg, a spectacular little hike, where we took the train up just 1 stop to the foot of the glacier, then walked back down to Kleine Scheidegg. We didn't go all the way up to Jungfrau because it was afternoon, additional $$ not included on the Swiss Pass tho discounted, and we wanted to go to Jungfrau earlier in the day for the sled dogs. (We did get to see the sled dogs and where they live, with no other people there, on our walk down.) 

So, we planned to go to Jungfrau the next day, our last - but alas it was totally socked in with fog, couldn't believe it. Next time, I figured, of course we'll come back. I'm inspired to start thinking about that return trip.


----------



## Carolinian (Oct 12, 2011)

billhall said:


> We used Budget Travel Euorpe (BET)  http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id19.html  for several years when we were mixing business travel thru Europe with personal side trips.  Their site and store had a lot of useful items and we were getting good Eurail Pass prices there too.
> 
> A month log Eurail pass led a LOT of great trips.   I understand that Eurail passes aren't the bargain they were around 2000 and before (and I'm way out of sync) but it's worth a look.



I never buy European rail tickets in the US.  Most of the outlets jack up the price, sometimes by a lot.  Eurail passes, which cannot be bought in Europe, are an exception, but I have rarely seen situations where Eurail passes for adults make sense over buying point to point tickets.  The Europe East rail pass once did, IF a lot of your travel was in Austria.  Sometimes I wonder if some of the US-based outlets jack up their point to point ticket prices just to make the Eurail pass prices seem good.


----------

