# "Buying into Hyatt" questions



## GTLINZ (Apr 3, 2008)

New member to Tug, long time reader.

I currently own only one timeshare week with HGVC/Hilton (platinum 1BR) and I have been able to leverage a lot out of vacations out of it by traveling offseason. I may be in a position to purchase a 2nd timeshare later this year and have been pouring thru HVC/Hyatt threads and HVC sales prices on Ebay. HGVC/Hilton seems more flexible to me (3-? nights with starting night not specified, single changeable reservation, borrowing points easy and free) but they also seem disinterested in expanding from their few locations. HVC/Hyatt also looks pretty flexible, but the rules of the game are most understood by those who play the game. We made our first trip to Key West last December (RCI, Galleon) combined with a short Miami stay and loved it. Here is what I am thinking and I would love for HVC/Hyatt owners to shoot holes in my logic. My understanding is based on what I have read, so fire away at that also.

I am thinking of purchasing a November bronze week in Key West. We live in GA and can drive, and can combine with a 3 night Miami Beach HGVC stay if we want (LOVE JOE'S STONE CRABS RESTAURANT !!!!). We loved how quiet it was at year end in the Keys and would probably want to stay there AT LEAST every other year. Locals told me it was the offseason and we liked it that way.  I understand the logic of buying max points for maint fees because that is what I did with my HGVC points - but I really want to use my home week often - and that was not my goal when buying HGVC, which was purely a points decision. Here is the way I look at this:

1) it will take many years to recoup the difference in purchase price, and it looks like a bronze goes around $7k, gold for $12k, plat for $16k (this is what I have seen, I may be wrong, the numbers MATTER). Remember - if you took the purchase price difference and invested it, it would take even longer to justify the extra initial dollars. $7k vs $12k investment, considering gold is 44% more points than bronze and assuming $900 maint fee, give an extra $400 in value per year based on MF alone. Considering $5k difference, that is 12 years without interest, estimate 15 years with interest, to make up the difference. Things can change a LOT in 15 years, and odds are timesharing will not change for the better.

2) since HVC ties your home week to a real unit, unlike HGVC, I can look for a week in a unit I LIKE instead of just going after points (this is not a feature of HGVC)

3) I do want to visit Carmel, Tahoe and Sedona, and 4 weeknights would be GREAT because I like to move around in a general area. I figure I could get 2 midweek trips with 1300 HVC points, looking at HVC charts. I think of these years as a "West coast swing" and combined with HGVC points I can get a sandwich weekend in San Fran or Scottsdale to make a nice 10 day trip (I have done weekends with HGVC/RCI so this is proven in my mind to get a weekend between two 4 day midweek HVC reservations). FYI - I have access to ski weeks at HGVC Valdoro so the HVC ski locations aren't on my wish list. I also know new locations are coming up with Hyatt - but not really a priority for me. And BTW - HGVC is raising the points stake on new locations also.

What I do not understand at this point is if I can reasonably expect to be able to get HVC midweek reservations in general. Here is what I do not fully have a grasp of:

A) Do full week reservation requests trump the order in which requests are made for partial weeks? I always want to do "West Coast" swings in Sept so I also would be 2 month behind the first possible requests in the queue for Sept reservations, but still 4 months ahead of CUP, and 6 months ahead of tossing points into extended Interval searches if I got nervous   (I love options). 

B) Is the risk MUCH higher in getting consective midweek reservation filled vs just one ? 

C) When I submit a request for a specific time period, can I specify multiple locations?

 I do not have a lot of vacation time or a lot of cash to invest. HGVC has served me well. I hope you guys can give me insight into how well HVC will work considering my approach to using it. THANKS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES !


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## Carmel85 (Apr 3, 2008)

GTLINZ,

You have a million questions I would suggest going to a sales presentation at Hyatt and go to Kals website.

I personally would NEVER but anything but a 2200 or 2000 point week yes you pay more $$$ but at 1300 points that is a joke level at that level I would just rent.

Carmel85


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## Kal (Apr 3, 2008)

GENERAL COMMENT: As a routine I would never suggest someone purchase a 1300 point week.  This is at the very bottom of the scale and it would significantly limit your options within the system.

RESALE PRICES:  I’m not so sure your numbers are reliable.  Hyatt just raised their Key West prices again to a point where Platinum (2000 point) units are selling for >$40K.  I think you would have a high risk that Hyatt would take a bargain deal on Right of First Refusal.

FINANCIAL ISSUES: The ROI formula approach is difficult to apply to a vacation as there are so many intangibles.  An example would be a dollar value of vacationing in high-season vs low-season.  If you want to stay in Key West the only resort with 1BR or Studio configuration is Sunset Harbor.  That resort has the highest occupancy of any in the Hyatt system.  Thus, it will be even more difficult to get a reservation in Key West.

MIDWEEK RESERVATIONS: It will be a real challenge to get sequential short-stay reservations at various HVC resorts. 

FULL WEEK v PARTIAL WEEK: A request for a partial week has the same status as a full week.  The only thing that affects your status is when you make the request.

MULTIPLE REQUESTS: I would have to reach way back to my statistics class and try to remember how the formula works for sequential events.  If there is a 20% probability of any singe Event occurring the probability of both Events occurring would be 20% x 20% = 4% …. I think!

MULTIPLE LOCATION REQUESTS: Each request is distinct for one week at one resort.  You can make multiple requests but each one is unique and does not have any “if, and, or” variables.

I hope this helps.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks Kal. Your answers were crystal clear. Sounds like a request is a request, so partial vs full week does not matter. That is what I needed to know. And I think you are right about successive requests - odds are low. So I just need to focus on getting my initial request for as long as I have points.

One more clarification - the points charts from your website list 3 night weekend stays, 4 night midweek stays and 2 night midweek stays. Does that imply you cannot ask for, say, Sunday-Thursday night at a resort with Sunday checkins?  It would seem to me that weekend night reservations wreak havoc with the system since the would cross over 2 home resort weeks on a Sat or Sun checkin resort.


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

All the resorts have a little different schedule for stays which are less than a full week.  The terminology between "weekend" and "weekday" stays is related to inclusion of a Friday night.  Most of it depends on the designated check-in day for a full week.  You'll just have to check for the specifics for any resort in question.  However, as a general rule a short week stay does not bracket a full weekend.  You are correct in that such a stay would wreck havoc because it would cross two distinct ownership weeks.


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

Kal said:


> ...MULTIPLE LOCATION REQUESTS: Each request is distinct for one week at one resort. You can make multiple requests but each one is unique and does not have any “if, and, or” variables....


 
Upon further thought you can make a request that has multiple features.  As an example, you can make an "either/or" request.  In this case you would ask for say Week 6 or Week 7.  At the moment that one of those weeks becomes available your reservation will be granted and the request for the remaining week will be cancelled.  This is done when you don't have enough points to fill both requests.


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## Transit (Apr 5, 2008)

GENERAL COMMENT: As a routine I would never suggest someone purchase a 1300 point week. This is at the very bottom of the scale and it would significantly limit your options within the system.What if you need a specifiic week like a week 24 in Key West at Sunset Harbor.If this resort has a high owner occupancy rate dosen't it pay to buy the exact season you need even if it's a 1300 or 1400 point week in order to ensure you reservation for that week at that resort ?


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

Carmel85 - thanks for the response. I am not sure how Hyatt works, but in general I would tend to not trust what a timeshare salesman would tell me. I trust the HGVC counselors now that I have access to them, but did not before I was an owner.  I instead used TUG and other resources for research in deciding what worked best for my situation. I am in the same situation now with HVC and using this forum for what it is designed for. Thanks again.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

Kal said:


> Upon further thought you can make a request that has multiple features.  As an example, you can make an "either/or" request.  In this case you would ask for say Week 6 or Week 7.  At the moment that one of those weeks becomes available your reservation will be granted and the request for the remaining week will be cancelled.  This is done when you don't have enough points to fill both requests.



Thanks Kal. 
Is there a limit to how many weeks you can search for? I know with RCI when I put in a request I can list a large range of times.


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## Carmel85 (Apr 5, 2008)

GTLINZ said:


> Carmel85 - thanks for the response. I am not sure how Hyatt works, but in general I would tend to not trust what a timeshare salesman would tell me. I trust the HGVC counselors now that I have access to them, but did not before I was an owner.  I instead used TUG and other resources for research in deciding what worked best for my situation. I am in the same situation now with HVC and using this forum for what it is designed for. Thanks again.



GTLINZ,

I would also not trust a sales person but I would just go to one of the hyatt presentations to get info materials and know how the hyatt system works.

Buy big point values 2200 or 2000 point weeks as you can see from other tug poster the lower values points are really not the at great.

Good LUCK and Happy HYATT Hunting,
Carmel85


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

Transit said:


> What if you need a specifiic week like a week 24 in Key West at Sunset Harbor.If this resort has a high owner occupancy rate dosen't it pay to buy the exact season you need even if it's a 1300 or 1400 point week in order to ensure you reservation for that week at that resort ?


 
My recommendations on purchase include these two criteria:

1. Purchase the highest number of points possible.

2. Purchase a specific resort, week and unit that you would enjoy visiting every year into the future. That way you won't be disappointed in the request process.

You are correct to purchase a specific week at Sunset Harbor. That gives you the number of points you want AND more importantly the specific resort. Since Sunset Harbor presents a bit of a challenge because of its high occupancy rate, you're guaranteed your HRPP unit. However, once you decide not to use your 2 BR HRPP unit (or portion thereof) you're into points reservations. With the points system there is no "home resort" preference so you would compete with all other Club memebers. In the worst case, you go to Key West and have an option to stay in a 2BR, 1BR or Studio unit. Not all that bad. 

The downside is Sunset Harbor units are difficult to find on the resale market and the prices are significantly higher than some of the other HVC resorts.


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

GTLINZ said:


> Thanks Kal.
> Is there a limit to how many weeks you can search for? I know with RCI when I put in a request I can list a large range of times.


 
You can make as many requests as you like.  The only problem is the first unit to become available is yours.  It may not be your first preference but it could consume your points.


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## Transit (Apr 5, 2008)

I Just returned from Key West and have to say the Hyatt Sunset Harbor has IMO the best location of all the timeshares in KeyWest. I'm on the boarder tough because the weeks I really want are in Bronze and silver only giving 1300 or 1400 points.I know 2200 point weeks will serve the Hyatt system better but those weeks do not fall when I need to travel so it would always be a request instead of a solid reservation.I'm on the fence just tetering.


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## Carmel85 (Apr 5, 2008)

Transit,


What ever week you pick1300,1400,1880 2000 or 2200 remember all the MF's are the same so why not get a bigger point value then you have more options even though you only want 1300 or 1400 point week with the 2000 or 2200 point week you might get a full 11+ days 4 mid week and then a full 7 day.

I wouldn't sit on the fence to long when Hyatt announces more locations Hyatt will be harder to get.

Carmel85


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

I am in the same boat as Transit. I want to go to the Keys in November, and those are bronze weeks. I have read a lot of posts, especially Kal's, and read thru his website. The week I want is problem (since bronze) and I see 2 approaches: 
- I want to find a unit I like and use it most years . That leans towards purchasing the exact week/location/unit I want (since w/ Hyatt the actual unit matters), even though it is bronze. The other years I am ok with partial weeks for Carmel or Tahoe (if 4 days or more). If partial week requests are no different than full week requests on the list, then I am ok.
- I also could buy peak Jan-Mar for more points, but would want to trade to Nov. That is more risky - but the locals told me that is low season (Nov - mid Dec). Jan (gold) seems better if I go for more points since I am only two months behind the earliest possible requests for Nov. But I have less control over the unit I get.
I do want Sunset Harbor. I stayed at the Galleon next door to SH, which got me started looking at Key West, which got me looking at Hyatt. I like being next to Mallory Square and in the middle of everything.


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## Transit (Apr 5, 2008)

Carmel85 said:


> Transit,
> 
> 
> What ever week you pick1300,1400,1880 2000 or 2200 remember all the MF's are the same so why not get a bigger point value then you have more options even though you only want 1300 or 1400 point week with the 2000 or 2200 point week you might get a full 11+ days 4 mid week and then a full 7 day.
> ...


Schools in South Florida finish up around June 5th .I'd like to travel to Key West every year around week 23-25 .The Sunset harbor resort has a high owner occupancy rate  it may be hard to reserve the weeks I want if I get a 2200 point week.From what I've read this resort may be harder to book specific weeks than other Hyatt resorts.


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

Obviously the posters here are doing very good homework.  We're now really looking at the fine points of the system.  You seem to accept the fact that you will be paying a premium in terms of $MF/point so we'll set that issue aside.  You also seem to say you will NEVER want to travel to resorts during that resort's high-season weeks.  That would be okay for the near term, but it also locks out future changes in vacation style.

So now we need to review the probability of getting your reservation requests filled.  Let's look at Sunset Harbor during the low season.  When we refer to "high occupancy", all that means is the resort is full.  It doesn't mean that an HVC member cannot get in on points.  The high occupancy by HRPP owners generally occurs during the high season and the rate runs somewhere around 40%.  That leaves a large number of units available to the Club during low-season weeks.  Therefore, if you get your points in the general week just before you want to travel, your in the best position to have the points in your account when the units become available.  That's a nice advantage over other Club members especially those who own high value weeks.  This all works fine if you want to travel to other HVC resorts where their low-season is in sync with the weeks you own.  The further those resorts are out of sync, the lower your chance to easily get a confirmed reservation.  Just review the "Resort Weeks" chart to see what it means.

The cost of purchase is then the remaining issue.  Sunset Harbor is expensive, but my feeling is current HSH owners of low point weeks always seem interested in selling their week and buying a high point week.  That helps for your target resale opportunities.


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## Transit (Apr 5, 2008)

The options between the 2200 and 1300-1400 are being weighed the press for the lower point option is they seem to move quickly on the resale market if I ever wanted to bulk up i could alway sell with minimal loss.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

Kal said:


> The high occupancy by HRPP owners generally occurs during the high season and the rate runs somewhere around 40%.  That leaves a large number of units available to the Club during low-season weeks.  Therefore, if you get your points in the general week just before you want to travel, your in the best position to have the points in your account when the units become available.  That's a nice advantage over other Club members especially those who own high value weeks.  This all works fine if you want to travel to other HVC resorts where their low-season is in sync with the weeks you own.  The further those resorts are out of sync, the lower your chance to easily get a confirmed reservation.



Thanks Kal, that makes sense. WHEN is very important - I thought so but it sounds imperative to have the best odds if not making a HRPP reservation.

My two target travel times are Sept for Carmel, Tahoe or Sedona, and Nov for Key West, with Key West being most important. Carmel is second and a week is preferred. Multiple reasons for both, being weather and crowds - but based on past experience that is what I like. Buying the unit I want, 2 br SH in Nov, puts me two months behind on Sept travel request on West coast and leaves me 150 point short of a Carmel 1br week. Partial Sedona weeks or Tahoe weeks are ok.

Based on the importance you place on WHEN you have your points, and the HRPPs I want - are my odds better, with this scenario, to:
A) Buy Nov SH 2br bronze, be 2 month behind curve for sept partial week request. but have HRPP I want most
B) Buy Sept Carmel 1br Diamond (2 brs RARE), be 2 months ahead of most important Key West reservation, extra 150 points covers DIA 1br with 2nd preferred HRPP

If B, is resale purchase for a 1br DIA carmel going to be significantly higher than SH 2br BRONZE?


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## Kal (Apr 5, 2008)

GTLINZ said:


> ...Based on the importance you place on WHEN you have your points, and the HRPPs I want - are my odds better, with this scenario, to:
> A) Buy Nov SH 2br bronze, be 2 month behind curve for sept partial week request. but have HRPP I want most
> B) Buy Sept Carmel 1br Diamond (2 brs RARE), be 2 months ahead of most important Key West reservation, extra 150 points covers DIA 1br with 2nd preferred HRPP
> 
> If B, is resale purchase for a 1br DIA carmel going to be significantly higher than SH 2br BRONZE?


 
I would say either option would work.  As long as you have viable points in your account when the requested unit becomes available (i.e 6-months prior to occupancy) you would have a good chance.  The Carmel units would largely become available on say 3/1 while the SH units would become available on say 5/1.  In either case you would have CUP points to use when units from both resorts are released.

Hyatt's selling price for Carmel is generally 2-3x higher than Sunset Harbor.  I don't know specific numbers for the seasons but Sunset would be the lower price.


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## Floridaski (Apr 5, 2008)

*You can always put extra points into II*

We own both Hyatt and Grand Cayman weeks, so I always have more then I can usually use.  I NEVER let one Hyatt point go to waste.  When we purchased the owner had points in II, Points in LCUP and new points coming in one month.  I still have points in II and they come in very handy for destinations like Whistler or other locations that Hyatt does not have properties.  The Hyatt points will pull Marriotts and I even pulled a DVC resort for a 2008 Holiday and it was a one bedroom.  II does not get ANY Hyatt points until the owners request is filled, so if it is deposited - you stand a very high chance of getting the unit.  The Disney trip, I canceled the search and the Hyatt rep called the next day with a unit that had just be deposited that morning.  I just was not sure we wanted to spend the Holiday away from home, so I let it go.  

So the short story is, if you can afford it and have the vacation time buy at least 1800 points, 2000 if you can.  You just have to think about what is right for you and where your travels may take you.

I also agree to go to a Hyatt presentation before you buy RESALE.  We actually went to 3 before we finally decided to buy.  We already had the Grand Cayman weeks, really did not need more - but we live in Florida and we can drive to so many of their locations.  We stayed at 3 different Hyatt timeshares and we liked every single location.  The Hyatt sales presentation will answer many of your questions, plus you will get a great vacation for a minimal cost.  Good luck!


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## GTLINZ (Apr 5, 2008)

Lots to think about. Thanks to all for the posts. Tug is a great resource and I appreciate everyone's input.

I know how to work the HGVC system and think I have a better feel for HVC now. It is important to me to have flexiblity and to know how to work within the system. Hopefully we will be in a position to buy later this year. If we can afford more points, we may opt to get a 2br gold/plat/dia season at another location in Sept-Nov (Sedona Pinion is one of the few with peak weeks in that timeframe). If we can't, I think SH Nov will do fine in combination with our HGVC options and would be a low cost entrance to HVC.

Thanks again...


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## Floridaski (Apr 6, 2008)

*Try Beach House Key West*

You may want to consider purchasing the Beach House in Key West, it has the lowest cost per point ratio.  If you are really wanting to get into Key West in Nov - you should not have any problem.  We have stayed at Sunset Harbor with our Beach House points without any issues.  You can more then likely get more for your dollar at the Beach House.  Good luck!


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## tahoeJoe (Apr 6, 2008)

*Another Thought*

I do not have a lot of vacation time or a lot of cash to invest. HGVC has served me well. I hope you guys can give me insight into how well HVC will work considering my approach to using it. THANKS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES ! [/QUOTE]

Hi GTLINZ -  

What I hear you saying is that:  

1) Money matters, cost differences are important
2) You don't have a lot of time at this point to vacation (maybe more when you retire?)
3) You have questions about trading priorities.

Your 3rd question was answered very articulately from KAL. With regards to your first two issues let me propose an “out of the box” approach this. First let me state that not everyone needs 2950 points. However, I agree with most everyone on this board that more points (1880, 2000) will give you more flexibility and opportunity to get into the resorts you when you want. Also, MFs add up and over the long term they are the real costs of the deal. But, due to time constrains you may not be able to use all the days the 2000 points would allow. Therefore I would consider purchasing a resale week from an authorized Hyatt re-sale broker at a resort that Hyatt no longer has a sale desk at. This has 3 advantages, 

1)	You can calmly negotiate (as opposed to crazy bidding) the best price for your unit  
2)	Hyatt controls ROFR so buying from an authorized resale broker helps with passing ROFR. If Hyatt invokes ROFR then they have to sell it again through the resale broker
3)	You can exchange for Hyatt Gold Passport hotel points EOY .

Now before I get flamed about points being a “bad deal”. Let me state that often hotel points CAN be a bad deal, I understand the economics of trading a 2 bedroom for 6 or 7 nights in a hotel room. HOWEVER, it is not always a bad deal. If you can’t use your week it’s better to convert to hotel points than lose the week. 

I view hotel points as a free insurance policy. If my life won’t allow me to travel, or travel much, I can convert my unit into points and they never expire. Also, hotel points are easier to use (more locations, less restrictions, check in any day of the week, leave when you want, no split week fees, and no reservation fees). Also, I can use points for car rentals and other items. 

Usually one needs to buy from Hyatt and pay top dollar for the hotel points option, but not always. Bying from an authorized Hyatt resale broker, you still get the lowest resale price and a point conversation option.

If you would like some advice on who and where to buy resale, please inbox me. Thanks. 

-TJ 

PS - I am not an authorized Hyatt resale agent or affiliated with one


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## Kal (Apr 6, 2008)

Floridaski said:


> You may want to consider purchasing the Beach House in Key West, it has the lowest cost per point ratio. If you are really wanting to get into Key West in Nov - you should not have any problem. We have stayed at Sunset Harbor with our Beach House points without any issues. You can more then likely get more for your dollar at the Beach House. Good luck!


 
If the poster is clearly operating on points, the Beach House would be a good purchase.  However, he seems to want the guarantee of getting into Key West in something other than a 2 BR unit.  Since only Sunset Harbor has the option of 1 BR or Studio, owning at Sunset will satisfy both goals.

BTW, Hyatt is now pricing the Beach House the same as Windward Pointe.


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## Floridaski (Apr 6, 2008)

Kal said:


> If the poster is clearly operating on points, the Beach House would be a good purchase.  However, he seems to want the guarantee of getting into Key West in something other than a 2 BR unit.  Since only Sunset Harbor has the option of 1 BR or Studio, owning at Sunset will satisfy both goals.
> 
> BTW, Hyatt is now pricing the Beach House the same as Windward Point.




I trust your information Kal, but I had a friend just purchase a Beach House 1800 point week in December for 11,500 - which is slightly higher then the 1300 or 1400 point weeks.  But still, very far below the developer prices.  The unit went past ROFR without any problems.  They own homes in both Colorado and Florida - so they can drive to both Colorado and Florida resorts.  They have already used their points for a studio stay in Aspen and could not be any happier.


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## Kal (Apr 6, 2008)

tahoeJoe said:


> I do not have a lot of vacation time or a lot of cash to invest. HGVC has served me well. I hope you guys can give me insight into how well HVC will work considering my approach to using it. THANKS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES !





> ...I understand the economics of trading a 2 bedroom for 6 or 7 nights in a hotel room. HOWEVER, it is not always a bad deal. If you can’t use your week it’s better to convert to hotel points than lose the week.
> 
> I view hotel points as a free insurance policy......


 
I like what you are saying about the insurance aspect, but let me add some specifics to the Hotel Exchange Program.

If you own 1400 points, an exchange will get you 57,000 Hyatt Gold Passport Points. Here are some options for maximizing use of all those points in a single stay (by Hyatt Hotel Categories) -

Cat 5 (e.g. Grand Hyatt Kauai) 18K/night = 3 nights
Cat 4 (e.g. Hyatt KW Resort) 15K/night = 3 nights
Cat 3 (e.g. Hyatt at Fisherman's Wharf (San Fran) 12K/night = 4 nights
Cat 2 (e.g. Hyatt Summerfield Suites equivalent = 8K/night = 7 nights
Cat 1 (e.g. former AmeriSuites equivalent = 5K/night = 11 nights

Thus if you want to stay in a quality Hyatt hotel, you only get 3 nights.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 6, 2008)

tahoeJoe said:


> Therefore I would consider purchasing a resale week from an authorized Hyatt re-sale broker at a resort that Hyatt no longer has a sale desk at. This has 3 advantages,
> 
> 1)	You can calmly negotiate (as opposed to crazy bidding) the best price for your unit
> 2)	Hyatt controls ROFR so buying from an authorized resale broker helps with passing ROFR. If Hyatt invokes ROFR then they have to sell it again through the resale broker
> ...



Excellent info, TahoeJoe. I actually bought my HGVC resale directly for Hilton and paid $500 over the best deal I found but knew I would have no issue with ROFL (they do not like to advertise they resell for their owners). I also agree that in general the hotel points exchange is generally a good deal, but having the option is good (HGVC gets that with ANY resale). HVC is trickier to work that HGVC but looks to be the 2nd most flexible of the major chains (for example, you can toss HGVC point into RCI at the last minute before they expire, borrow from next year free, I can go on...). Each one has it's merits. Hyatt for the most part has better locations, for sure.

From what I have read, I should have no issue trading into SH in Nov. I suspected this - in early December when there SH appeared to be pretty empty. Sounds like it will work to my advantage.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 6, 2008)

Kal said:


> If the poster is clearly operating on points, the Beach House would be a good purchase.  However, he seems to want the guarantee of getting into Key West in something other than a 2 BR unit.  Since only Sunset Harbor has the option of 1 BR or Studio, owning at Sunset will satisfy both goals.
> 
> BTW, Hyatt is now pricing the Beach House the same as Windward Pointe.



Actually, I want a 2 br for the Keys to travel with friends from Miami. My preferred location is SH after being there and in the middle of everything. Beach House seems to be running $200 a year cheaper on MFs, which I like. My issue is that my preferred travel time is Sept - Nov and few locations have more points then, plus the intial fee matters. I don't need more that one week out of the points, in general, but do not want to lose any either. If I can purchase resale for CLOSE to market and get the hotel points option, at least I can keep from losing points if I have a non Key West year and using a split week. All things to consider.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 6, 2008)

GTLINZ said:


> I also agree that in general the hotel points exchange is generally a good deal, but having the option is good (HGVC gets that with ANY resale).



Sorry, I misquorted - Hotel points are generally NOT a good deal.  .. HVC and HGVC share that - I bet they love it if you use your points that way....


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## GTLINZ (Apr 6, 2008)

Here are examples to explain my points requirements, why I am looking at Hyatt, and what I am looking at to get from Hyatt/HVC ownership.

We like to go out west every 2-3 years, and living in GA we have easy access to go FL. HGVC has most it's locations in FL (affiliates, but accessible internally and I can avoid RCI). We currently mix Orlando and beach locations then trade for out west thru RCI some years (this is a lot of work). Western locations thru RCI are also limited. We do not have Interval Int. access with HGVC. We also just visited Key West last December, and for once I actually would like to have a home resort there - and we like Nov in the Keys. Hyatt offers locations and units in Carmel, Tahoe and Sedona I want access to (besides the Key West base). We take family on a trip every other year, and we try to do a trip with just my wife and I every year. Trips out west are just for the 2 of us, and we like to travel Sept out west. We are all over spring/early summer in FL using HGVC. So we really only need ONE TRIP PER YEAR out of Hyatt, and Sept - Nov is our target period for HVC travel.

If I buy 1880 or 2000 points and go to Key West in Nov most years, what do I do with the other 580-700 points? The Coconut plantation resort has no draw for me (I prefer HGVC south FL locations). With HGVC, I can move points forward easily and I basically just never have to lose any points - so having extra points in HGVC does NOT require forced trips. Borrowing thru HVC requires LCUP reservations (or at least travel within 2 months). With HVC it looks like the bottom line is that you need to use your points within the defined 3 reservation periods for that year's points. Even if I am in a position to trade for Hyatt hotel points, this is not a good plan. If HGVC would build in more locations, especially out west, I really would not be looking at Hyatt. But Hyatt has a much better plan as far as locations and from what I read it is only going to get better. So I am thinking if I buy Hyatt points I need to use them every year, and the normal one trip I need is a bronze 2br in november.

Also, if I am in an "out west" year with my HVC points and book a partial week, I will have extra points (even with "just" 1300 points) and subject to lose them. At least this is the unusual years. I am more prone to book another trip in this situation. The real rub for my situation with only having 1300 points is that I sure could use 1450 points for a full week 1br diamond for Carmel. But I can live with partial weeks out west because I like to hit multiple stops when there. This seems like the lesser of 2 evils.

So 1300 bronze still seems like the best situation for me. I can pay extra for SH and get a HRPP situation, or save a little money elsewhere and buy 1300-1400 Sept-Nov at the cheapest location which is likely still Beach House (from my reading on Tug).  And if I buy HVC points, I don't need as many HGVC points - and since they are easy to retain, having HVC and HGVC ends up being a nice combination.


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## Carmel85 (Apr 6, 2008)

GTLINZ,

Get OFF the fence and buy a Hyatt. Talk talk talk why dont you buy buy buy you have all the info and you seem to know the Hyatt system  

We can only guide you but you have to make your own offers and decisions.  You will still be learning at 1300 or 1400 points you will be back in a year or less buying a 2000 or 2200 point week you will see. 

Go get a steal of a deal on a 1300 point week but you will be asking why didnt I listen to us here on the board to buy a higher point week. You will just have to learn on your own!! 

You think you are going to come west and get a the mid weeks you want.Remember Hyatt fills all the 7 day request 1st then Hyatt fill the mid week requests. 

I know one thing you will not be getting into many if any NEW Hyatt that are coming on line in the next 3-5 years with a little 1300 point week that is 100% for sure. Tahoe,Siesta Key,NYC,Hawaii,California and yes Florida. 

Carmel85 wwcd


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## tahoeJoe (Apr 7, 2008)

I know one thing you will not be getting into many if any NEW Hyatt that are coming on line in the next 3-5 years with a little 1300 point week that is 100% for sure. Tahoe,Siesta Key,NYC,Hawaii,California and yes Florida. 

Carmel85 wwcd[/QUOTE]

Carmel85 is correct in that it will be very difficult get new resorts in prime season with low points. However, the off season might be a different story. I know Northstar has Silver, Bronze and Copper seasons. They also have 2 bedroom and studio units. So you could get a 2 bedroom for 4 nights in Bronze season for 420 points (340pts for copper) and a week in a studio for silver season for 480 points (360pts for copper). I suspect these off season trades at Northstar will be plentiful, here is why. 

Northstar is only selling Diamond, Platinum, and gold weeks (only 20 weeks per year per unit). The remaining 32 weeks are up for grabs. The buyer at Northstar receives a fixed week PLUS an additional 2450 to 3250 points to be used anywhere at anytime. Why would a platinum Northstar owner want to  go to Northstar during the off season when they can go during a peak ski or summer week? Most likely they will go there for a week (or split week) during the peak and then trade to Carmel, Maui, or Key West in the off season (they have the points to do so and spent the best week at Northstar already that year).     

-TJ


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## GTLINZ (Apr 7, 2008)

tahoeJoe said:


> I know one thing you will not be getting into many if any NEW Hyatt that are coming on line in the next 3-5 years with a little 1300 point week that is 100% for sure. Tahoe,Siesta Key,NYC,Hawaii,California and yes Florida.
> 
> Carmel85 wwcd



Carmel85 is correct in that it will be very difficult get new resorts in prime season with low points. However, the off season might be a different story.    

-TJ[/QUOTE]

I understand the newer resorts will likely cost more points. Hawaii and New York are already available with HGVC, but Siesta Key and more Cali sure sounds good. I also have Vegas access with HGVC but don't care a thing about going there.

1300 points gets me into Key West when I want, and gives me lots of options I do not have now thru Interval (2br week, or a 1br week and a studio week) since I currently don't belong to Interval. It would also give me access to last minute Interval Inventory. In general, Interval inventory looks more attactive to me than RCI. Access to Marriott properties would be a plus. I don't have to worry about losing points with Interval if I submit them in time for EEEP.

Carmel85 - from your responses, it sounds like you can spend as much as you want, but I can't. Hopefully I will be in a position to buy later this year. I think 1300 points will serve me fine. The only one that really "hurts" is being short of a 1br week at Highlands Inn.

I understand the limitations of 1300 point weeks, but they have their place. Covering a 2br in Interval shows the high trading power of HVC. Hilton is high within RCI, but not at as high of a ratio as HVC:
-7000 is 2br peak HGVC, 4800 to pull peak RCI 2br (takes 68.5% of your points)
-2200 is 2br peak HVC, 1300 to pull peak II 2br (takes 59% of your points)


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## Kal (Apr 7, 2008)

Carmel85 said:


> GTLINZ,
> ...You think you are going to come west and get a the mid weeks you want.Remember Hyatt fills all the 7 day request 1st then Hyatt fill the mid week requests. ...


 
Do you really mean to suggest that midweek requests will never be filled?  I have been told many times by Hyatt that ALL requests are on a "first-come, first-served" basis.  They don't distinguish between lengths of stay in a request.


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## Transit (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks for the Info guys I made an offer on a Hyatt unit lets see what happens.


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## Kal (Apr 7, 2008)

This whole logical thought process on purchasing a 1300 or 1400 point week makes very good sense.  However, it is clearly based on:

the buyer having other existing properties,
preference for specific Hyatt resorts,
time of the year to travel, and
AVAILABLE FUND$.
The downside is working with two different timeshare programs.  It's a bit like Airline Mileage Programs.  I could have accounts with 5 different airlines, yet I don't have enough miles in any single account to obtain "free" tickets for me and my SO.  If at some point the owner feels trapped in 1400 point neverland, life becomes more difficult.


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## Carmel85 (Apr 7, 2008)

Kal said:


> Do you really mean to suggest that midweek requests will never be filled?  I have been told many times by Hyatt that ALL requests are on a "first-come, first-served" basis.  They don't distinguish between lengths of stay in a request.




Kal,

100% for sure Hyatt fills ALL 7 day requests 1st then the others (mid weeks etc) if there is space.

Carmel85


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## Kal (Apr 7, 2008)

You might want to call Hyatt Owner Services and see what they say.  Just think, how would a short week requestor ever get that reservation filled?

My personal experience in February is that my short-week request was filled while a good friend's request for a full week for the same week at the same resort was not granted.  We both had been on the waiting list for a lengthy period except I put my name on the list ahead of her.


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## Kal (Apr 7, 2008)

I just talked to Owner Services to see where I am on the wait list for another request. I also asked about how they handle requests for short-week stays. They confirmed that it is "first-come, first-served" on filling requests. There is no distinction between full weeks and short weeks. They also said that has been a long-standing HVC policy and it has not changed.

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Floridaski (Apr 7, 2008)

*We often stay mid-week or weekends*

I  am one of those people that like to get the most from my Hyatt points.  We are lucky and live in Florida, so we often take mid-week stays at their various Florida resorts. 

I have NEVER had any problem with getting my mid-week reservation filled.  We also have just stayed for the weekends, also NEVER a problem.   I have also been told by owner services that mid-week and weekend request are treated no differently then full weeks.  Now the resort managers much prefer full week stays, but they do not control Hyatt reservations.

I also have to say that we will agree to disagree....on this one.


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## Transit (Apr 7, 2008)

Kal said:


> This whole logical thought process on purchasing a 1300 or 1400 point week makes very good sense.  However, it is clearly based on:
> 
> the buyer having other existing properties,
> preference for specific Hyatt resorts,
> ...


Having a varied portfolio of good timeshares or sticking with one and having elite status and lots of points is a big consideration and a tough decision. I think having Starwood ,Hyatt and mayby a Marriott in the future will give me a broad quality TS expeirence. By buying resale if my needs change I can opt out at minimal loss.


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## Carmel85 (Apr 7, 2008)

Kal and Flordski,

I think Im telling you wrong. You can be on the waitlist for 7,4,2,3 day stays each one has its own priority #1 in each time frame.

Hyatt always fills the 7 day reservations first then they work the mid week stays.

It makes since because when you turn in your complete HRRP 7 day week and not split up your HRRP week then all 7 days open up. If the owner of HRPP week  uses only 2,3, or 4 night stays that is where the other nights come into play., mid week stays.

I can only tell you this is what advisor in member services Hyatt corporate stated.

I also never have a problem getting in Mid-week stays but it is getting harder and harder to get them and some resorts.  I just dont want any of the hyatt newbies think they can always get midweeks in Carmel or sunset harbor it just does not happen that easy.

GO HYATT NORTHSTAR


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## Kal (Apr 7, 2008)

This is the first I have ever heard that there are 4 wait lists for each week at each resort. There is only one wait list for reservations at a resort. They go down the list according to priority and confirm each reservation in that order. If person #1 wants a 3 day, (s)he gets a 3-day. There is no criteria where that person is skipped because there are only 7-day openings. They do not skip over someone just because they want a 3-day. In the instance where there are ONLY 7-day slots available, they will break it up and assign a short week. Ultimately the next person wanting a 7-day may not get a reservation as there are only short weeks available. At that point the 7-day request is not filled and they continue down the list until they reach the next short week request.

In February 2008 I was assigned a short week stay in a unit where the HRPP owner declined use of the entire week Hyatt split the week. I had specifically requested this exact unit therefore the assignment was of particular interest to me. As I indicated in an earlier post, a friend was on the wait list for a 7-days during that same week and did not get confirmed at all. Obviously they split a week rather than bypass me.

Can you imagine a situation where I did not get a 3-day reservation because there were only full weeks available? And then in the extreme let's suppose it was very low season and those units would remain empty even though I wanted a 3-day reservation and was #1 on the wait list.

Yes, I think we agree to disagree.


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## mesamirage (Apr 7, 2008)

Kal said:


> This whole logical thought process on purchasing a 1300 or 1400 point week makes very good sense. However, it is clearly based on:
> 
> the buyer having other existing properties,
> preference for specific Hyatt resorts,
> ...


 
I think we all agree that without a doubt the best value on a Hyatt week is to get a high points week at a below resale market price. However, as I have posted before there are times that purchasing a 1300/1400 points week does make sense for many many different reasons. I personally like to get the best value possible.... and I have done that with my purchases (or at least I think I have)... and I own a 1300 point week to go with my other 2 weeks.

Lets not be so black and white about the lower point weeks.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks guys - you thoroughly chewed on the subject that I have the most questions about now - the short weeks. 1300 points covers Key West and II weeks but falls 150 points short of a full week in Carmel during Sept. We LOVE that area.

I really need to know what other tuggers have gotten for "short weeks". With HGVC, if you don't do a home reservation, it is just about points. After home reservation period it is a free for all. Minimum 3 days, maximum by your points. So for a Sunday checkin, I could stay 6 nights and lose a weekend night and save 20% of my points (which would help here). I still do not have a grasp on how rigid the short weeks are.

If I lived near one of the locations I would be all over extra points because it would be easier to spend the points. All of the locations are a plane ticket away for me. Silver 2br is closer but still not there. But it would cover 1br plat.


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## Transit (Apr 8, 2008)

Transit said:


> Thanks for the Info guys I made an offer on a Hyatt unit lets see what happens.



offer rejected still shopping


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## Transit (Apr 10, 2008)

Watched an ebay auction end tonight a silver 1400 beach house went for 8700.


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