# Vistana to Abound Point Conversion Tracker



## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2022)

I have started to create a conversion tracker to keep track of the amount of points allocaetd to each VOI. I know everything right now is still speculation or information gleaned from attending a sales presentation, but at some point I suspect we will get official numbers. For now we can start tracking based on what we have learned in the other threads and update later if necessary. I don't have time at the moment to go through the other threads to update this sheet, creating it is as far as I got. But if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, feel free. The lined Google Sheet is open to comments (opening for edit gets messy). If you find something to add right click on the cell and select "Comment" then indicate what should be in the cell. Mainly looking to verify the breakdown of the sheet is correct but also to populate columns J, M and N. For resorts that are weeks based, I would prefer to populate N and calculate M. For Flex based items, it will just be M that gets populated to indicate the conversion of points. Based on the comments I can update the data in the actual cells.









						Vistana_DC_ConversionRates
					

Sheet1  Resort Code,Resort Name,Phase,Company Name,City,State,Country,Region,Unit Size,View,Home Season,VSN Season,StarOptions,Conversion,Elected Club Points SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis,Vistana,Scottsdale,AZ,USA,Domestic,2BR Lockoff,N/A,1-21, 50-52,Platinum Plus,148,000,2,375 SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis




					docs.google.com


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

I tried adding the comment and was successful but when I closed it, it did not save.  How do I get it to save?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2022)

I am not aware of any process to save. All updates are saved automatically. When I go into the sheet incognito and add a comment, I can see the notation on my logged in sheet in my regular browser.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

Well, it didn't save my comment. 

Let me do it here. Under SVR 2BR Lockoff Gold Plus week, it should be 95,700.  This is unique to Cascades and Lakes because while the Fixed week component falls either on Prime/Platinum or High/Gold Plus season, the week floats 1-52.  I own a 2Br l/o gold plus week at the Lakes.  Owners of 2BR High/Gold Plus at Lakes and Cascades also get 81K SOs, similar to Prime/Platinum week.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Well, it didn't save my comment.
> 
> Let me do it here. Under SVR 2BR Lockoff Gold Plus week, it should be 95,700.  This is unique to Cascades and Lakes because while the Fixed week component falls either on Prime/Platinum or High/Gold Plus season, the week floats 1-52.  I own a 2Br l/o gold plus week at the Lakes.  Owners of 2BR High/Gold Plus at Lakes and Cascades also get 81K SOs, similar to Prime/Platinum week.


I think this is where I really would like to get the Home Season filled in, because that is really where the points should be based off of. Can you indicate which row on the sheet is to be updated. Do I need to break out Lakes/Cascades as a separate record?


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I think this is where I really would like to get the Home Season filled in, because that is really where the points should be based off of. Can you indicate which row on the sheet is to be updated. Do I need to break out Lakes/Cascades as a separate record?


I think it is best to breakout Lakes/Cascades. Thanks. I think only these 2 phases are different.  Someone had said Fountains is similar and I don't know if it is true, but Fountains does not have 2Br lockoff.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 16, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I think it is best to breakout Lakes/Cascades. Thanks. I think only these 2 phases are different.  Someone had said Fountains is similar and I don't know if it is true, but Fountains does not have 2Br lockoff.


Do you know what the Home Seasons are called there? Is it Prime and High?


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Do you know what the Home Seasons are called there? Is it Prime and High?


Yes.  Prime (higher season) and High (lower season).  Thanks.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 16, 2022)

Here is a screen snapshot:


----------



## tamu_bu (Jul 16, 2022)

I'm a Google sheets kinda guy but can seem to initiate a comment via phone. Didn't try computer. Anyway, WKV Standard 1br, platinum plus is 67,100 so's. Probably 67.1 for other resorts as well.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 16, 2022)

Sheraton Flex is 34.23:1 or 34.2279:1, depending upon how far out you want to go.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 18, 2022)

Ownership InterestConversion RateSheraton Vistana Resort - Lake0.03179012Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella0.0348642Westin Aventuras0.033333333Westin Kierland0.027346386Westin Flex0.03466667


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 18, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Ownership InterestConversion RateSheraton Vistana Resort - Lake0.03179012Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella0.0348642Westin Aventuras0.033333333Westin Kierland0.027346386Westin Flex0.03466667


I saw that post.  The issue with the conversion rates above is that they do not apply to all sizes and seasons at the same resorts.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 18, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I saw that post.  The issue with the conversion rates above is that they do not apply to all sizes and seasons at the same resorts.


I know. I asked that question over in the other thread. I am not going to apply these to the chart except for Westin Flex. These are also all expressed as a decimal where the others were all ##.###.


----------



## Venter (Jul 18, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I saw that post.  The issue with the conversion rates above is that they do not apply to all sizes and seasons at the same resorts.


I was about to say the same.  I think it is best that people put their resort, bedrooms/size, season, points they get at Vistana and then the points they will get for Abound.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I know. I asked that question over in the other thread. I am not going to apply these to the chart except for Westin Flex. These are also all expressed as a decimal where the others were all ##.###.


That Westin Flex can't be right...that would give it a worse ratio than Sheraton Flex which isn't the case.


----------



## chinh9 (Jul 19, 2022)

I was told the Westin Flex Conversion is 28.84 but as everything until final conversion over subject to change.


----------



## Masuk (Jul 19, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Sheraton Flex is 34.23:1 or 34.2279:1, depending upon how far out you want to go.


How is this going to work in II? I currently have 359,000 options annually. Using your conversion formula I will have 10,489 MVPs. Currently II charges me up to 115,000 options for one week, 2 bdrm, high demand. I assume their whole exchange rate will change. Do you have any information on this?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 19, 2022)

Masuk said:


> How is this going to work in II? I currently have 359,000 options annually. Using your conversion formula I will have 10,489 MVPs. Currently II charges me up to 115,000 options for one week, 2 bdrm, high demand. I assume their whole exchange rate will change. Do you have any information on this?


Do you own weeks or Home Options (Sheraton/Westin Flex)? If you own a week, you can still trade your week in II as a week or you can elect Abound points to trade in II. Abound points have a similar chart as Home Options do when trading in II. Here is the chart for Abound point exchanges in II.






Edit to add: Keep in mind that Abound points can't be used to exchange into other MVC properties. When they integrate Vistana into the mix, we don't know what kind of additional restrictions they will place when using Abound points in II. It may not be possible to exchange Abound points for MVC or Vistana resorts.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Jul 19, 2022)

At our update a couple of weeks ago we were given

WKORVN 2BR IV 148,000 SO converts to 6200 Club Points (23.887)
WLG 1BR Gold Season 44,000 SO converts to 2275 Club Points (19.341)

If those are correct then the Lagunamar rate is generous.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 19, 2022)

Masuk said:


> How is this going to work in II? I currently have 359,000 options annually. Using your conversion formula I will have 10,489 MVPs. Currently II charges me up to 115,000 options for one week, 2 bdrm, high demand. I assume their whole exchange rate will change. Do you have any information on this?


You will still be able to use your SFlex options in your Vistana II to do exchanges like you always have. If you convert options to Abound Points, then you would use the II chart Dioxide posted for your exchanges but not sure if you would have a Marriott II account to do them in. Needless to say, the exact details are still not known.


----------



## wjarcher (Jul 19, 2022)

Here is what I got for my weeks based on the printout:

SDO red 1-52 2br (gold):  1975
WKORVN 2br island view (same as ocean view too): 6200
Lagunamar 2br platinum: 4950
Lagunamar 1br platinum: 3250
Lagunamar 2br gold: 3400
Westin Desert Willow 2br platinum: 3725
SVV 2br non-lockoff bella prime: 2825
SVV 2br non-lockoff key west prime: 2725
SFlex 148,100: 4325 (basically 34.24:1)


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 19, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> Here is what I got for my weeks based on the printout:
> 
> SDO red 1-52 2br (gold):  1975
> WKORVN 2br island view (same as ocean view too): 6200
> ...


Thanks for this. I have updated the Google Sheet. Interesting that they have a 100 point difference between Bella and Key west even though the units are pretty much identical.


----------



## wjarcher (Jul 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Thanks for this. I have updated the Google Sheet. Interesting that they have a 100 point difference between Bella and Key west even though the units are pretty much identical.


yup, no idea about why (the initial purchase prices are all over places depending on when it was bought by the first owner; maybe Vistana has some internal pricing history where Bella costs more Key west).

Also the fix weeks for WKORVN have higher points value in case you'd like to add rows to your sheet.  WKRVN week 52, island view has 8075 points


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 19, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> yup, no idea about why (the initial purchase prices are all over places depending on when it was bought by the first owner; maybe Vistana has some internal pricing history where Bella costs more Key west).
> 
> Also the fix weeks for WKORVN have higher points value in case you'd like to add rows to your sheet.  WKRVN week 52, island view has 8075 points


Added.

Are your Lagunamar weeks all Oceanview? I am tracking the Oceanside separately even if they are the same amount.


----------



## wjarcher (Jul 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Added.
> 
> Are your Lagunamar weeks all Oceanview? I am tracking the Oceanside separately even if they are the same amount.



Thanks.  Yeah, they are all Oceanviews


----------



## oneohana (Jul 20, 2022)

This is what our print out came out to be.

Westin Flex 28.8:1
Sheraton Flex 34.26:1
WMH 47.01:1
SMV 47.4:1
SDO 3 Season 62.36:1
SDO 1-52 41:1
WLOR 24:1


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 20, 2022)

oneohana said:


> This is what our print out came out to be.
> 
> Westin Flex 28.8:1
> Sheraton Flex 34.26:1
> ...


Can you tell me what the resorts are that you own; season, unit size. Also not sure what SDO 3 Season 62 is.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 20, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Can you tell me what the resorts are that you own; season, unit size. Also not sure what SDO 3 Season 62 is.


Is it 62.36:1 as the conversion ratio?  Would be a lower season deed then.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 20, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Is it 62.36:1 as the conversion ratio?  Would be a lower season deed then.


Could be. I have started to only track the points allocated to each week instead of also keeping track of the ratio conversions (except for Flex). One thing with Vistana and some of their legacy resorts is that seasons and StarOptions aren't all that clean. People can do the conversion math if they want. I think just tracking the points allocated to the week is cleaner.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 20, 2022)

Okay, I learned a Sheraton Vistana Villages-Key West 1BR Prime week is worth 1,400. At least they claimed mine would be worth 700 points and I own an EOY.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jul 21, 2022)

So an island view Westin North lockoff is worth almost the same as oceanfront?  

Are people paying to enroll their deeded weeks (not in options) into DC?  What are they offering?  I am curious, not really interested in doing it.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Jul 21, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So an island view Westin North lockoff is worth almost the same as oceanfront?
> 
> Are people paying to enroll their deeded weeks (not in options) into DC?  What are they offering?  I am curious, not really interested in doing it.



Not really.

Vistana value WKORVN OF at 19.3% over IV (176,700 v 148,100 SO) whilst Marriott are valuing OF at 34.3% over IV (8,325 v 6,200 Club Points) so I'd say there will be a significant advantage to using DC.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jul 21, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> So an island view Westin North lockoff is worth almost the same as oceanfront?
> 
> Are people paying to enroll their deeded weeks (not in options) into DC?  What are they offering?  I am curious, not really interested in doing it.


I think they are saying the island view would be worth the same as ocean view.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jul 21, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> Not really.
> 
> Vistana value WKORVN OF at 19.3% over IV (176,700 v 148,100 SO) whilst Marriott are valuing OF at 34.3% over IV (8,325 v 6,200 Club Points) so I'd say there will be a significant advantage to using DC.


My eyeballs saw the island view week 52 and thought it was the line for island view the rest of the year.  It was old eyes.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Jul 21, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My eyeballs saw the island view week 52 and thought it was the line for island view the rest of the year.  It was old eyes.


Get some new ones quickly before you miss out on a 'deal'


----------



## oneohana (Jul 21, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Is it 62.36:1 as the conversion ratio?  Would be a lower season deed then.


SDO 2 bed l/o 148100 options= 2375 Marriott pts.
SDO 1-52 2 bed l/o 81000 options = 1975 Marriott points.
The 148100 will never be converted. I was surprised at the WLOR conversion rate.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 21, 2022)

oneohana said:


> SDO 2 bed l/o 148100 options= 2375 Marriott pts.
> SDO 1-52 2 bed l/o 81000 options = 1975 Marriott points.
> The 148100 will never be converted. I was surprised at the WLOR conversion rate.


Precisely.  SDO True Platinum weeks that have been "qualified" will continue to use VSN or trade in II.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 21, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Precisely.  SDO True Platinum weeks that have been "qualified" will continue to use VSN or trade in II.


That is what I am planning.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jul 24, 2022)

I hope everyone realizes that Staroptions are very straightforward.  Marriott has the skim.  If you own a week at Westin Ka'anapali and want to book a one bedroom and a studio, back-to-back weeks, you can do that with options.  With DP, you cannot reserve the full 14 nights with a 2 bedroom lockoff at MM1, for example.  The skim should keep a lot of you who are thinking about enrolling your weeks into Marriott.  I won't do it, not my Mandatory Staroptions.  I would consider enrolling my best Sheraton weeks, but they would have to offer me a great deal.


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 24, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I hope everyone realizes that Staroptions are very straightforward.  Marriott has the skim.  If you own a week at Westin Ka'anapali and want to book a one bedroom and a studio, back-to-back weeks, you can do that with options.  With DP, you cannot reserve the full 14 nights with a 2 bedroom lockoff at MM1, for example.  The skim should keep a lot of you who are thinking about enrolling your weeks into Marriott.  I won't do it, not my Mandatory Staroptions.  I would consider enrolling my best Sheraton weeks, but they would have to offer me a great deal.


No matter how I tried to look Marriott Points and tried my best to like it, Marriott points just look sucks to me. Staroptions are just way better. I will keep using SOs until strange things happen to change my mind.


----------



## bigslip (Jul 24, 2022)

From our meeting today. We are Sheraton Flex
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 24, 2022)

bigslip said:


> From our meeting today. We are Sheraton Flex
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. It doesn't have any kind of branding for Vistana on it so it looks like something they made themselves. The amounts in the right hand columns don't all use the 34.26 ratio. For example 1,000 club Points would be 34,260 options instead of the 35,000 listed. It makes one wonder if that part of the chart is actually showing the levels of StarOptions you will need to reach each elite level once they apply Marriott recognition levels to Vistana's program and replace the existing elite levels, with appropriate grandfathering. Interesting!


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 24, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Interesting. It doesn't have any kind of branding for Vistana on it so it looks like something they made themselves. The amounts in the right hand columns don't all use the 34.26 ratio. For example 1,000 club Points would be 34,260 options instead of the 35,000 listed. It makes one wonder if that part of the chart is actually showing the levels of StarOptions you will need to reach each elite level once they apply Marriott recognition levels to Vistana's program and replace the existing elite levels, with appropriate grandfathering. Interesting!


This is the problem that comes up when corporate doesn't provide the necessary tools or training to the sales staff. They start winging it and this is the result. Owners know StarOptions and sales staff seems to think comparing to StarOptions is the only way they can explain it. I suspect the amounts on the right are based on the 3*, 4*, 5* conversion that they are making to Executive, Presidential and Chairman's. Aren't those first three rows on the right the StarOption amounts for each of the 3*, 4* and 5*?

This was of course Flex and the term StarOptions should not have been used.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> This is the problem that comes up when corporate doesn't provide the necessary tools or training to the sales staff. They start winging it and this is the result. Owners know StarOptions and sales staff seems to think comparing to StarOptions is the only way they can explain it. I suspect the amounts on the right are based on the 3*, 4*, 5* conversion that they are making to Executive, Presidential and Chairman's. Aren't those first three rows on the right the StarOption amounts for each of the 3*, 4* and 5*?
> 
> This was of course Flex and the term StarOptions should not have been used.


I believe 3* currently starts at 159,000, 4* at 349,000 and 5* at 649,000, so based on that they don't align. If you work backwards from the club points using the ratio they had at the top, the calculations come close to the SOs listed in the left hand column so perhaps they were trying to do what you said and relate it to people in StarOptions in terms of how many you would need to own to achieve those levels. Of course this leaves out automatic Vistana elite level mapping which we know is based upon the levels above, but of course since this is a sales tool they don't want you thinking about that! Just how many you have to buy to hit the levels that they're listing.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 24, 2022)




----------



## chinh9 (Jul 24, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> This is the problem that comes up when corporate doesn't provide the necessary tools or training to the sales staff. They start winging it and this is the result. Owners know StarOptions and sales staff seems to think comparing to StarOptions is the only way they can explain it. I suspect the amounts on the right are based on the 3*, 4*, 5* conversion that they are making to Executive, Presidential and Chairman's. Aren't those first three rows on the right the StarOption amounts for each of the 3*, 4* and 5*?
> 
> This was of course Flex and the term StarOptions should not have been used.




I have a document with the Marriott logo on it that shows Vistana 3 star elite is Executive, 4 star elite is Presidential and 5 star elite is Chairman level automatically. So I think somehow that chart almost means nothing because the threshold his easier that way than with points conversion. Unless maybe they combine your current Marriott DP's if to your conversion if you exchange your VOI's for DP's if you're an owner of both?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 24, 2022)

chinh9 said:


> I have a document with the Marriott logo on it that shows Vistana 3 star elite is Executive, 4 star elite is Presidential and 5 star elite is Chairman level automatically. So I think somehow that chart almost means nothing because the threshold his easier that way than with points conversion. Unless maybe they combine your current Marriott DP's if to your conversion if you exchange your VOI's for DP's if you're an owner of both?


I know others here don't agree, but I beleive the Vistana 3 star elite Executive, 4 star elite Presidential and 5 star elite Chairman is just there from the start as a "grandfathering" of Vistana levels into Marriott levels. I beleive that after rollout the combined Abound points someone has overall will determine their ownership benefit level. How else can it work long term when Vistana stops selling Flex products if someone who is a pure Vistana owner today buys Abound points in the future. The same would be true of owners in both systems today.


----------



## Alwaystravelling (Jul 25, 2022)

It seems like a bad conversion rate for mandatory properties. As of now I can exchange my 2BR Vistana Bella platinum non-lockoff with 81,000 options for a 1BR at Westin Kaanapali.  I won't get Anywhere near enough Marriott points to do that same conversion to any 1BR at any of the Hawaii properties......so forget it.  It doesn't seem like much of a deal from what I'm reading.


----------



## chinh9 (Jul 25, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I know others here don't agree, but I beleive the Vistana 3 star elite Executive, 4 star elite Presidential and 5 star elite Chairman is just there from the start as a "grandfathering" of Vistana levels into Marriott levels. I beleive that after rollout the combined Abound points someone has overall will determine their ownership benefit level. How else can it work long term when Vistana stops selling Flex products if someone who is a pure Vistana owner today buys Abound points in the future. The same would be true of owners in both systems today.



So are you saying that the Vistana star levels will only matter once the merger happens for current elite star levels and then moving forward it’s only points based? Of course I know it’s not facts but what you think based on current intel. I’m sure same thing is happening with the grandfathering in of Bonvoy status too based on those star levels?


----------



## Eric B (Jul 25, 2022)

Alwaystravelling said:


> It seems like a bad conversion rate for mandatory properties.



If I were setting up a system combination that included mandatory resale properties without additional purchases (i.e., an affiliation that includes all VSN members rather than just those with retail or requalified resale purchases), that is how I would establish the comparative values because the fact that they are in on a mandatory basis would make them less valuable to me as the developer; I would rather value the voluntary properties higher because that would provide a sales incentive.


----------



## rcv82 (Jul 25, 2022)

I don’t think mandatory or voluntary has anything to with conversion value, but rather the relative supply and demand of the property to exchangers. WKORV and Nanea oceanfront both have very high exchange rates, one mandatory. Orlando properties are a very plentiful, so they won’t be worth as much. StarOptions values didn’t fully reflect the difference in supply/demand, with the Abound values being much closer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jcflorian (Jul 25, 2022)

I own at Westin Kaanapali North-  2br lockoff- Oceanfront.

What will 176,700 star options convert to?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 25, 2022)

jcflorian said:


> I own at Westin Kaanapali North-  2br lockoff- Oceanfront.
> 
> What will 176,700 star options convert to?


It is already on the sheet linked in the first post.


----------



## bigslip (Jul 25, 2022)

This is what they offered us. We currently have 224k flex. I know odd number. They said we need 243k to make Marriott world wide executive. We would then have 7092 MVC points. Merger is 100% complete end of month and there will be a widget added to dashboard brining in August where you can choose Marriott properties or Vistana. First of year we would access MVC website only.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dsmrp (Jul 25, 2022)

@dioxide45, I have 2 more datapoints for your spreadsheet.
VIT/VIO Sheraton Vistana Resort
fixed week 2 Bdrm Spas, "Prime" season, 81,000 options -> 2425 DC pts
float 2 bdrm Lakes, "High/Gold Plus" season, 81000 -> 2575 DC pts

The Cascades 2 bdrm unit, HIgh season in the spreadsheet gets 2600 pts, 25 pts more than mine.
No idea why MVC got so granular on each week.
They did downgrade pointswise my fixed week; so maybe non-event fixed weeks are overall worth less?


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> @dioxide45
> 
> The Cascades 2 bdrm unit, HIgh season in the spreadsheet gets 2600 pts, 25 pts more than mine.
> No idea why MVC got so granular on each week.
> They did downgrade pointswise my fixed week; so maybe non-event fixed weeks are overall worth less?


The 2600 Cascades week entry is mine. It is a “fixed-floating week 51”. So it may have a bit more value given It is guaranteed Christmas each year if desired.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> The 2600 Cascades week entry is mine. It is a “fixed-floating week 51”. So it may have a bit more value given It is guaranteed Christmas each year if desired.


Lakes phase is also fixed-float, like Cascades.  What is interesting is that yours is Prime while @dsmrp's High season.  I wonder if that makes up the 25 points difference.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> float 2 bdrm Lakes, "High/Gold Plus" season, 81000 -> 2575 DC pts


I think this might also be a 2BR lock off? Thus why only the 25 point difference instead of what I would expect to be a bigger difference given the seasons?


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I think this might also be a 2BR lock off? Thus why only the 25 point difference instead of what I would expect to be a bigger difference given the seasons?


Nope.  L/O is 95,700 SOs for Lakes and Cascades, regardless of "season".  Based on the posts, both @jabberwocky and @dsmrp own 2BR units.

I have a "virtual" owners update with MVC tomorrow afternoon and I suspect they don't know Vistana's conversion rates to Abound.  I told the person who contacted me to not waste our time unless they could let us know about Vistana conversion.  The person said she would ask her supervisor and to call me back.  She did, and said that her supervisor said that they should be able to talk about the combined program, which in English means that they have no clue on Vistana conversion to Abound points.  My husband said since we have nothing to do tomorrow, just attend for the $$$.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I have a "virtual" owners update with MVC tomorrow afternoon and I suspect they don't know Vistana's conversion rates to Abound.


The rep at Canyon Villas last week was able to tell us the conversion rate for our two Vistana weeks. They even had something that looked like an official print out from a system.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The rep at Canyon Villas last week was able to tell us the conversion rate for our two Vistana weeks. They even had something that looked like an official print out from a system.


Thank you.  We will see what happens tomorrow.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Nope. L/O is 95,700 SOs for Lakes and Cascades, regardless of "season". Based on the posts, both @jabberwocky and @dsmrp own 2BR units.


Thanks for clarifying. I have updated my sheet to some degree. For now I am hiding the VSN Season and StarOption amount. They are still there just in white text. Trying to keep it straight is difficult and I suspect it is the underlying week or season that matters.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Thank you.  We will see what happens tomorrow.


i think what @dioxide45 is referring to is the “Daily Tour Profile Sheet”. They can print this out for you and it will list what each of your ownerships would convert to in Abound.

I grabbed a photo of ours during our tour last week.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The rep at Canyon Villas last week was able to tell us the conversion rate for our two Vistana weeks. They even had something that looked like an official print out from a system.


You went to Arizona and Palm Desert, what did you think of the dry, extremely hot air of these desert climates in summer?  It will be a relief to be back in some humid weather again, I am sure.  I prefer the desert heat over the Orlando/ coastal FL humidity in summer.  

Also, I think I would convert some of my other weeks to Marriott Abound so am curious what others have been told about their 9-43 and 47 weeks at SBP.  If anyone has that information, would you post it here?  

I also have the Marriott's Shadow Ridge and Willow Ridge I was considering for a rollover into DC (which I am unsure I want to even visit the Shadow Ridge in person after finding out no ceiling fans in the bedrooms, which is a big deal to me).  

Thank you, Jeremy for doing all of this work.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> i think what @dioxide45 is referring to is the “Daily Tour Profile Sheet”. They can print this out for you and it will list what each of your ownerships would convert to in Abound.
> 
> I grabbed a photo of ours during our tour last week.


It is a MVC owners' update, not Vistana owners' update.  Are you saying that MVC can now pull Vistana ownership info?  I think you went to a Vistana one?  I know Dioxide got his Vistana profile at Canyon Villas, so I am now hopeful.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> It is a MVC owners' update, not Vistana owners' update.  Are you saying that MVC can now pull Vistana ownership info?  I think you went to a Vistana one?  I know Dioxide got his Vistana profile at Canyon Villas, so I am now hopeful.


Yes they loaded all Vistana ownership into their sales and marketing system a couple of months ago. They even assigned each of us a MVC customer number which is on the daily tour sheet.

They also have records of all the sales presentations you attended at both Vistana and Marriott and the outcomes. My salesperson in June showed me all of it. He also showed me that for Marriott owners they have a history of all the "problems" they reported during stays and if they were given any type of compensation. That kind of surprised me that sales would have that!


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> It is a MVC owners' update, not Vistana owners' update.  Are you saying that MVC can now pull Vistana ownership info?  I think you went to a Vistana one?  I know Dioxide got his Vistana profile at Canyon Villas, so I am now hopeful.


Yes. The printout we got is definitely from the MVC system. It has the MVC logo and a footer stating that it is “Marriott Vacations Worldwide Confidential and Proprietary Information”.

I’ve seen the Vistana ones at prior updates (the ones that look like they could be produced from a dot matrix printer). These ones are definitely not from the legacy Vistana system.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Yes. The printout we got is definitely from the MVC system. It has the MVC logo and a footer stating that it is “Marriott Vacations Worldwide Confidential and Proprietary Information”.
> 
> I’ve seen the Vistana ones at prior updates (the ones that look like they could be produced from a dot matrix printer). These ones are definitely not from the legacy Vistana system.


Sounds like the same thing I have. The closer actually let us have a copy after she redacted our owner number and such (not sure why). Then the regular sales rep let us take a bigger packet that had the same page and a whole lot more, without redaction. Go figure.

One thing for sure, you almost need a magnifying glass to read the thing... At least at my age.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Sounds like the same thing I have. The closer actually let us have a copy after she redacted our owner number and such (not sure why). Then the regular sales rep let us take a bigger packet that had the same page and a whole lot more, without redaction. Go figure.
> 
> One thing for sure, you almost need a magnifying glass to read the thing... At least at my age.


Lol. It is small!

Curious. can you look at the sheet and see what it says on the line “Total Non Enroll pts” in the upper right hand corner? I’m trying to figure out what this means. Ours shows as zero even though we have a mandatory resale week that is “unauthorized.”


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Lol. It is small!
> 
> Curious. can you look at the sheet and see what it says on the line “Total Non Enroll pts” in the upper right hand corner? I’m trying to figure out what this means. Ours shows as zero even though we have a mandatory resale week that is “unauthorized.”


All of ours are mandatory un-authorized, Here is what it indicates;




The 4,125 is our Marriott points and the 3,525 is the total from our two Vistana weeks.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> All of ours are mandatory un-authorized, Here is what it indicates;
> View attachment 61010
> 
> The 4,125 is our Marriott points and the 3,525 is the total from our two Vistana weeks.


What is OBL?  Are any of your Marriott weeks enrolled?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> What is OBL?  Are any of your Marriott weeks enrolled?


They are enrolled and I suspect OBL may stand for "Owner Benefit Level" since we are Select with MVC.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 26, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> What is OBL?  Are any of your Marriott weeks enrolled?


Owner Benefit Level, I believe


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> All of ours are mandatory un-authorized, Here is what it indicates;
> View attachment 61010
> 
> The 4,125 is our Marriott points and the 3,525 is the total from our two Vistana weeks.


Interesting. Our resale WKORV-N week is not requalified; however, it isn’t showing up as non-enrolled. On two separate updates we’ve been told that all of our ownerships qualify for Abound conversion and that we didn’t need to buy anything more to access the system. I wonder if this is because we do have a WFlex package?


----------



## charlieth0 (Jul 26, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> They also have records of all the sales presentations you attended at both Vistana and Marriott and the outcomes. My salesperson in June showed me all of it. He also showed me that for Marriott owners they have a history of all the "problems" they reported during stays and if they were given any type of compensation


sorry if not relevant to this thread, but wonder if this is in part due to the Salesforce software they are using.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Interesting. Our resale WKORV-N week is not requalified; however, it isn’t showing up as non-enrolled. On two separate updates we’ve been told that all of our ownerships qualify for Abound conversion and that we didn’t need to buy anything more to access the system. I wonder if this is because we do have a WFlex package?
> 
> View attachment 61019


Was your sheet prepared at a Vistana sales office? How long ago? Perhaps they are adding in more data points?


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Was your sheet prepared at a Vistana sales office?


Yea.


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Interesting. Our resale WKORV-N week is not requalified; however, it isn’t showing up as non-enrolled. On two separate updates we’ve been told that all of our ownerships qualify for Abound conversion and that we didn’t need to buy anything more to access the system. I wonder if this is because we do have a WFlex package?
> 
> View attachment 61019


Mine shows identical to yours and was prepared at a MVC office in June. All my Vistana ownership is qualified but I think for Vistana only owners it's showing zero because they haven't loaded that ownership into the customer account they've established for each of us in the reservation system. Jeremy is a hybrid owner of both so perhaps that's why they pulled his Vistana ownership into the numbers.


----------



## cubigbird (Jul 26, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Yes they loaded all Vistana ownership into their sales and marketing system a couple of months ago. They even assigned each of us a MVC customer number which is on the daily tour sheet.
> 
> They also have records of all the sales presentations you attended at both Vistana and Marriott and the outcomes. My salesperson in June showed me all of it. He also showed me that for Marriott owners they have a history of all the "problems" they reported during stays and if they were given any type of compensation. That kind of surprised me that sales would have that!


Interesting that they keep track of all problems you report.  I’d be curious what else is on my profile.


----------



## wjarcher (Jul 26, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Mine shows identical to yours and was prepared at a MVC office in June. All my Vistana ownership is qualified but I think for Vistana only owners it's showing zero because they haven't loaded that ownership into the customer account they've established for each of us in the reservation system. Jeremy is a hybrid owner of both so perhaps that's why they pulled his Vistana ownership into the numbers.



To my ownership (I have not requalled any weeks), the number adds up to the points value (annualized) for all of the mandatory resale weeks.  Maybe it gives hope that all mandatory can be enrolled to the new program without purchasing?


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> To my ownership (I have not requalled any weeks), the number adds up to the points value (annualized) for all of the mandatory resale weeks.  Maybe it gives hope that all mandatory can be enrolled to the new program without purchasing?


This is getting interesting. I don’t want to take this thread OT, but Did you get your point total at a Vistana or Marriott presentation?


----------



## jabberwocky (Jul 26, 2022)

charlieth0 said:


> sorry if not relevant to this thread, but wonder if this is in part due to the Salesforce software they are using.


I think you are right. It likely comes from the Marriott CRM system that they use for the hotels. I know on check in they can pull some preferences that are attached to my hotel profile.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> @dioxide45, I have 2 more datapoints for your spreadsheet.
> VIT/VIO Sheraton Vistana Resort
> fixed week 2 Bdrm Spas, "Prime" season, 81,000 options -> 2425 DC pts
> float 2 bdrm Lakes, "High/Gold Plus" season, 81000 -> 2575 DC pts
> ...


The original sold price from the developer is one of the parameters in calculating DC points.  Spas was most likely sold for less money than Lakes.


----------



## wjarcher (Jul 26, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> This is getting interesting. I don’t want to take this thread OT, but Did you get your point total at a Vistana or Marriott presentation?



I am purchasing an Aruba week to enroll both my Marriott and Vistana weeks (hopefully after the merge), and I got the printout from the sales person there.


----------



## daviator (Jul 27, 2022)

So last time I did an owner update they were trying to sell me up to 5* Elite (from 4*) because that would translate to Chairman's Club in the new Abound system.  I didn't bite because, among other things, I don't think the differences between Presidential and Chairman are that significant, and because I don't need any more regardless.  But now that some numbers are available, I'm adding up the expected DP value for my ownership, and it's coming to about 17,500 DP each year.  (One of my VOIs is an EOY, and so I divided the DP value in half; I assume that's the way they will calculate that for elite benefit purposes.)

So it seems like I am likely to get grandfathered to Chairman's Club even though I am only 4* Elite in Vistana.  Is my understanding correct?

 I'm also making a big assumption, because I'm assuming my 2BR LO at WKORV (OV) will be worth the same as a similar unit at WKORVN (there's no value posted for WKORV.)  I'm not sure why it would be different.  But even if it's a little different for some reason, I'm still going to be way above 15,000 DP, which seems to be the value they are using for grandfathering status... if I understand right.

I guess I'll find out next week... maybe?


----------



## kozykritter (Jul 27, 2022)

daviator said:


> So last time I did an owner update they were trying to sell me up to 5* Elite (from 4*) because that would translate to Chairman's Club in the new Abound system.  I didn't bite because, among other things, I don't think the differences between Presidential and Chairman are that significant, and because I don't need any more regardless.  But now that some numbers are available, I'm adding up the expected DP value for my ownership, and it's coming to about 17,500 DP each year.  (One of my VOIs is an EOY, and so I divided the DP value in half; I assume that's the way they will calculate that for elite benefit purposes.)
> 
> So it seems like I am likely to get grandfathered to Chairman's Club even though I am only 4* Elite in Vistana.  Is my understanding correct?
> 
> ...


Theoretically that appears to be true. The mapping part for Vistana elite seems certain. However if they raise Chairman requirements above 15K as part of this launch, we don't know if they would grandfather Vistana owners with 15K into that status since they didn't technically hold that status level before they raised the requirements. No information given so far either way on this topic.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2022)

daviator said:


> So last time I did an owner update they were trying to sell me up to 5* Elite (from 4*) because that would translate to Chairman's Club in the new Abound system.  I didn't bite because, among other things, I don't think the differences between Presidential and Chairman are that significant, and because I don't need any more regardless.  But now that some numbers are available, I'm adding up the expected DP value for my ownership, and it's coming to about 17,500 DP each year.  (One of my VOIs is an EOY, and so I divided the DP value in half; I assume that's the way they will calculate that for elite benefit purposes.)
> 
> So it seems like I am likely to get grandfathered to Chairman's Club even though I am only 4* Elite in Vistana.  Is my understanding correct?
> 
> ...


This wouldn't be considering grandfathering of your status to put you at Chairman's. Chairman's would be where you are based on your Abound ownership points. Grandfathering would be if you didn't qualify for Presidential based on points (say you only got 9,925 Abound points) but they gave you Presidential based on your 4* VSN status. That said, based on how I would expect it to work, your Abound OBL (Owner Benefit Level) will be based on the higher of the two; based on Abound points or based on VSN Star level.


----------



## dsmrp (Jul 27, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> The original sold price from the developer is one of the parameters in calculating DC points.  Spas was most likely sold for less money than Lakes.


Yes of course, the original Spas sold for less than Lakes because it is one of the older sections in "Phase 1" built years before Lakes & Fountains in Phase 2.  I think Spas sold for around $15-16K in the mid 80's.  I bought Lakes around 2010 for $21K. 
It's ridiculous for Marriott to use purchase price as a parameter.  It depreciates the values for longtime owners who have supported these resort sections for years.
Yet purportedly using sales price is in alignment with the Sales perspective I've encountered in most update meetings:. 'you bought that so long ago or bought resale, you haven't bought(paid) into the current system... '  So the "current" system is changing to Abound, and it'll cost more whether in skim or point redemption values.

 I suspect MF is a more weighted parameter in their conversation calculations.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Yes of course, the original Spas sold for less than Lakes because it is one of the older sections in "Phase 1" built years before Lakes & Fountains in Phase 2.  I think Spas sold for around $15-16K in the mid 80's.  I bought Lakes around 2010 for $21K.
> It's ridiculous for Marriott to use purchase price as a parameter.  It depreciates the values for longtime owners who have supported these resort sections for years.
> Yet purportedly using sales price is in alignment with the Sales perspective I've encountered in most update meetings:. 'you bought that so long ago or bought resale, you haven't bought(paid) into the current system... '  So the "current" system is changing to Abound, and it'll cost more whether in skim or point redemption values.
> 
> I suspect MF is a more weighted parameter in their conversation calculations.


When Marriott rolled out their DC program in 2010, they did use purchase price as a factor. It worked then because Marriott was still actively selling all of the properties as weeks. For Vistana it doesn't work as well because they have been selling Flex for over five years now. I could also see where Spas and perhaps some of the other phases of two and three story buildings might not get as high a point value since none of these sections have elevators. I think Spa also lacks the top floor vaulted ceilings and skylights? So perhaps some of those things are also taken into account when determining point values? It will be interesting to see how many points they allocate to the other phases.


----------



## 10spro (Jul 27, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I hope everyone realizes that Staroptions are very straightforward.  Marriott has the skim.  If you own a week at Westin Ka'anapali and want to book a one bedroom and a studio, back-to-back weeks, you can do that with options.  With DP, you cannot reserve the full 14 nights with a 2 bedroom lockoff at MM1, for example.  The skim should keep a lot of you who are thinking about enrolling your weeks into Marriott.  I won't do it, not my Mandatory Staroptions.  I would consider enrolling my best Sheraton weeks, but they would have to offer me a great deal.


Owning deeded Westin Ka'anapali is much too valuable to ever turn into Marriott DP. You will never get the same value.


----------



## 10spro (Jul 27, 2022)

I added a comment for KAA, line 92, WKORV 2BR OF, not sure if the comment saved, confirmed same points as KAN, line 101, WKORVN 2BR OF.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2022)

10spro said:


> I added a comment for KAA, line 92, WKORV 2BR OF, not sure if the comment saved, confirmed same points as KAN, line 101, WKORVN 2BR OF.


Looks like it worked. I got an email about the comment and went in and updated the cell.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 27, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Yes of course, the original Spas sold for less than Lakes because it is one of the older sections in "Phase 1" built years before Lakes & Fountains in Phase 2.  I think Spas sold for around $15-16K in the mid 80's.  I bought Lakes around 2010 for $21K.
> It's ridiculous for Marriott to use purchase price as a parameter.  It depreciates the values for longtime owners who have supported these resort sections for years.
> Yet purportedly using sales price is in alignment with the Sales perspective I've encountered in most update meetings:. 'you bought that so long ago or bought resale, you haven't bought(paid) into the current system... '  So the "current" system is changing to Abound, and it'll cost more whether in skim or point redemption values.
> 
> I suspect MF is a more weighted parameter in their conversation calculations.


Did you buy Spas from the developer or did you buy resale and paid the special assessment in 2007 to enroll the week?  I am surprised by the $15-$16K which you thought it sold for in mid 80s.  I bought my Lakes 2BR L/O in 1996 for $11K.


----------



## dsmrp (Jul 27, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Did yu buy Spas from the developer or did you buy resale and paid the special assessment in 2007 to enroll the week?  I am surprised by the $15-$16K which you thought it sold for in mid 80s.  I bought my Lakes 2BR L/O in 1996 for $11K.


My FIL bought the Spas week resale in early 1990's for about $6K.  He dropped the ball and didn't grandfather it in to the VSN in 2007, tho' he did pay the special assessment.  He was more concerned about finding homes for his timeshares, since my in-laws had stopped travelling. Or maybe the concept of network internal trading was brand new then, and he didn't understand it.  We accepted the unit from him in 2008-09 or so.  I remember seeing the  resale documents  that listed the original $15K purchase price along with owners names.  I think the Spas were originally sold by the Vistana developer.  Then Sheraton/Starwood came in and purchased the resort.

Back in the early-mid 90's the Vistana resort was one of the largest, upscale timeshare resorts in Orlando.  Other TS resorts were smaller in scale and didn't have as many amenities;  I had short stays in a couple of them with the in-laws.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 27, 2022)

Just got off the phone with MVC corporate sales. 
- SVR Lakes 2/BR L/O Fixed-float1-52 High season is valued at 2825 Vacation Club points. 
- Elite level in MVC will use the combined Vistana-Marriott portfolio.  There is no current plan to introduce a level higher than Chairman's Club when the 2 systems are merged.  But that may change after Vistana owners are added into the MVC system later on, depending the percentage of owners at each level. 
- August 1 is the planned system merged date, but don't hold them to it because they have missed a few target dates already.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 27, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> - SVR Lakes 2/BR L/O Fixed-float1-52 High season is valued at 2825 Vacation Club points.


What is your fixed week?


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> What is your fixed week?


Week 49, but floats 1-52.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 27, 2022)

The other thing to note is that they had no access to my Vistana ownership.  She pulled a conversion screen up and I provided her information as to what to pull and she did a dropdown box one step at a time to pull the information.  Admittedly, she thought she was on the sales call to sell up to Chairman's Club level, until I told her that we own at Vistana and after going through the steps and points conversion, she realized that we are going to be at Chairman's Club level.


----------



## bobpark56 (Jul 28, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Added.
> 
> Are your Lagunamar weeks all Oceanview? I am tracking the Oceanside separately even if they are the same amount.


Aren't all Lagunamar units Oceanview? Some are even Oceanfront. Is that what you are asking about?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 28, 2022)

bobpark56 said:


> Aren't all Lagunamar units Oceanview? Some are even Oceanfront. Is that what you are asking about?


Just confirming that you own oceanview instead of oceanfront. I guess technically seaview and seafront. Or whatever they call that there. The endcap units were sold as oceanfront but have the same amount of StarOptions.


----------



## Eric B (Jul 28, 2022)

I believe the terms they use at Lagunamar are "oceanside" for the end units in buildings 1, 9, and 14, and "oceanview" for all other units.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Jul 28, 2022)

bobpark56 said:


> Aren't all Lagunamar units Oceanview? Some are even Oceanfront. Is that what you are asking about?


(Removed as already answered)


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 28, 2022)

Eric B said:


> I believe the terms they use at Lagunamar are "oceanside" for the end units in buildings 1, 9, and 14, and "oceanview" for all other units.


Thanks for the clarification. I really think Marriott should assign more Abound points for oceanside vs oceanview.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 28, 2022)

Learned today that Westin Aventuras looks to be a conversion rate of 30.04. I added it to the spreadsheet.


----------



## Troyrissa (Jul 29, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Learned today that Westin Aventuras looks to be a conversion rate of 30.04. I added it to the spreadsheet.


Dioxide, I have Aventuras. I’m trying to understand how this will work with the Abound. What does this conversion rate mean for 37,000 staroptions? Do you think it will be worthwhile to convert?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 29, 2022)

Troyrissa said:


> Dioxide, I have Aventuras. I’m trying to understand how this will work with the Abound. What does this conversion rate mean for 37,000 staroptions? Do you think it will be worthwhile to convert?


You would divide your 37,000 by 30.04 to get to the amount of Abound points. So it should mean you would have 1,231 Abound Points. They may probably round that up or down to the nearest 5. 1200 points isn't a lot, so you won't be able to make a lot of reservations with that, but 37,000 isn't a lof of HomeOptions/StarOptions either.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 29, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> You would divide your 37,000 by 30.04 to get to the amount of Abound points. So it should mean you would have 1,231 Abound Points. They may probably round that up or down to the nearest 5. 1200 points isn't a lot, so you won't be able to make a lot of reservations with that, but 37,000 isn't a lof of HomeOptions/StarOptions either.



With the MVC points charts for the Westin resorts that @kozykritter posted, it seems the conversions are not needed anymore.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 29, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> With the MVC points charts for the Westin resorts that @kozykritter posted, it seems the conversions are not needed anymore.


That chart is how much it costs to book a stay at a Westin property and it varies based on the time of the year. What we are tracking here for conversions is how many points a Vistana owner gets for their VOI when they would elect Abound points. These are two different numbers, just like with Marriott.


----------



## Troyrissa (Jul 29, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> You would divide your 37,000 by 30.04 to get to the amount of Abound points. So it should mean you would have 1,231 Abound Points. They may probably round that up or down to the nearest 5. 1200 points isn't a lot, so you won't be able to make a lot of reservations with that, but 37,000 isn't a lof of HomeOptions/StarOptions either.


Thanks Dioxide. I also have SVV 81,000 staroptions. I saw that conversion posted earlier at around 34.xx. So the Aventuras is valued higher per staroption? That seems odd but I guess Marriott makes sense of it in some way. Maybe the flex products are being valued higher?  I’m just not sure those amount of points will be worth it.  Dioxide can a week vacation be booked in Marriott for 3500 points? Also has there been any conclusive answer on whether vistana mandatory resale will be able to participate in abound?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 29, 2022)

Troyrissa said:


> Thanks Dioxide. I also have SVV 81,000 staroptions. I saw that conversion posted earlier at around 34.xx. So the Aventuras is valued higher per staroption? That seems odd but I guess Marriott makes sense of it in some way. Maybe the flex products are being valued higher?  I’m just not sure those amount of points will be worth it.  Dioxide can a week vacation be booked in Marriott for 3500 points? Also has there been any conclusive answer on whether vistana mandatory resale will be able to participate in abound?


SVV will be valued based on the underlying week and probably kept in line with other Marriott resorts in Orlando. You probably want to look at the Marriott points charts to see what 3,500 points can get you.

2023 Points Chart

We have no definitive answer as to if mandatory resale will be able to be enrolled. We are mandatory resale and of the three presentations we have been to recently, the reps have all been kind of cagey to the subject.


----------



## ocdb8r (Jul 29, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> With the MVC points charts for the Westin resorts that @kozykritter posted, it seems the conversions are not needed anymore.



Nope - the points charts are the number of points you need to SPEND to get a week.  We're tracking conversions for the value of points you get for opting for DPs (instead of using your week or Staroptions).  These are not the same as:

a) as you will see from the points charts, MVC has created totally new seasons for when you use DPs....so for your SVN week you get a blended value of all the weeks in the new seasons created by MVC; and

b) MVC "skims" off some points when you elect DPs (basically, they give you 7-10% less points than needed to book the week you give in)....very well discussed in the MVC forum, but consider this your "cost" of choosing to participate in MVC DPs in any given year.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 29, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> That chart is how much it costs to book a stay at a Westin property and it varies based on the time of the year. What we are tracking here for conversions is how many points a Vistana owner gets for their VOI when they would elect Abound points. These are two different numbers, just like with Marriott.



Got it. As usual I am confused.


----------



## Lansdowne (Jul 30, 2022)

While information is not formally out yet we, and many others, have been told that when an owner "elects" Club Points in lieu of a use year, the owner will be required to turn over the entire villa, no-lock offs!  This means there won't be conversion rates for the two sides of a lock-off villa (ex: no 1 BR Premium or Studio Premium). Marriott wants the entire villa available for booking in the Abound program.  FYI, at WKORV, there are a few 1BR Standard villas which are freestanding 1 BR's which should be eligible to receive Club Clubs upon election.


KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomestic2BR LockoffOceanfrontPlatinum Plus176,7008,325KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomestic1BR PremiumOceanfrontPlatinum Plus95,700KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomesticStudio PremiumOceanfrontPlatinum Plus81,000


----------



## ocdb8r (Jul 30, 2022)

Lansdowne said:


> While information is not formally out yet we, and many others, have been told that when an owner "elects" Club Points in lieu of a use year, the owner will be required to turn over the entire villa, no-lock offs!  This means there won't be conversion rates for the two sides of a lock-off villa (ex: no 1 BR Premium or Studio Premium). Marriott wants the entire villa available for booking in the Abound program.  FYI, at WKORV, there are a few 1BR Standard villas which are freestanding 1 BR's which should be eligible to receive Club Clubs upon election.



There will be conversion rates because some people only own these types of units; not everything at every resort was sold as a full 2-bed lock-off (even where standalone units don't exist). I do recall that some Vistana resorts were required due to local restrictions to only sell lock-offs as full 2-bed units, but I can't recall which ones. The DP election restriction will require you to elect whatever your full ownership is.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 30, 2022)

Lansdowne said:


> While information is not formally out yet we, and many others, have been told that when an owner "elects" Club Points in lieu of a use year, the owner will be required to turn over the entire villa, no-lock offs!  This means there won't be conversion rates for the two sides of a lock-off villa (ex: no 1 BR Premium or Studio Premium). Marriott wants the entire villa available for booking in the Abound program.  FYI, at WKORV, there are a few 1BR Standard villas which are freestanding 1 BR's which should be eligible to receive Club Clubs upon election.
> 
> 
> KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomestic2BR LockoffOceanfrontPlatinum Plus176,7008,325KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomestic1BR PremiumOceanfrontPlatinum Plus95,700KAAThe Westin Ka‘anapali Ocean Resort VillasVistanaLahainaHIUSADomesticStudio PremiumOceanfrontPlatinum Plus81,000


I suspect they have to allocate more Club Points to each side of the lock off for those that bought those because MVC plans to allocate more points for booking purposes to each side of the lock off. They did this with the MVC weeks where Marriott never sold each side individually. It costs more to book a studio and a 1BR than it does to book the entire 2BR. So those that bought a 1BR will probably get a better point to MF ratio than those that bought a full 2BR.


----------



## ocdb8r (Jul 31, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I suspect they have to allocate more Club Points to each side of the lock off for those that bought those because MVC plans to allocate more points for booking purposes to each side of the lock off. They did this with the MVC weeks where Marriott never sold each side individually. It costs more to book a studio and a 1BR than it does to book the entire 2BR. So those that bought a 1BR will probably get a better point to MF ratio than those that bought a full 2BR.


...and this is likely why they don't allow "locking off" and depositing only part of whatever unit you own.  I don't think MVC weeks owners can do this either.


----------



## VacationForever (Aug 3, 2022)

@dioxide45

Some numbers, a couple of new ones for you to update:
- Westin Mission Hills Gold Plus / 81K 2BR, 2375 DC points
- Westin Princeville Platinum / 148K 2BR, 4300 DC points
- Westin Desert Willow, Platinum / 148K 2BR, 3725 DC points
- Westin Flex, 81K, 2810 DC points


----------



## grrrah (Aug 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> SVV will be valued based on the underlying week and probably kept in line with other Marriott resorts in Orlando. You probably want to look at the Marriott points charts to see what 3,500 points can get you.
> 
> 2023 Points Chart
> 
> We have no definitive answer as to if mandatory resale will be able to be enrolled. We are mandatory resale and of the three presentations we have been to recently, the reps have all been kind of cagey to the subject.


Hopefully cagey in an effort to get people to requalify their resale purchases before formally learning that they don't need to. (fingers crossed)


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Aug 4, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> @dioxide45
> 
> Some numbers for you, a couple of new ones for you to update:
> - Westin Mission Hills Gold Plus / 81K 2BR, 2375 DC points
> ...



Seems like Princeville are getting a raw deal considering that anyone who bought there from the developer for a standard view 2BR paid quite a bit more than WKORV/N but will be receiving around 30% less trading value in Marriott. Not sure if their MFs are significantly lower than Maui as I couldn't find them on the 2022 MF thread.


----------



## VacationForever (Aug 4, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> Seems like Princeville are getting a raw deal considering that anyone who bought there from the developer for a standard view 2BR paid quite a bit more than WKORV/N but will be receiving around 30% less trading value in Marriott. Not sure if their MFs are significantly lower than Maui as I couldn't find them on the 2022 MF thread.


I agree that Princeville's number is too low.  The salesperson tried to explain that the property does not have ocean view and hence the lower conversion.  I would be pissed if I had bought from the developer.  No, I don't own there.


----------



## pacman777 (Aug 4, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I agree that Princeville's number is too low.  The salesperson tried to explain that the property does not have ocean view and hence the lower conversion.  I would be pissed if I had bought from the developer.  No, I don't own there.



Lagunamar has higher DC points with 4950 and half the maintenance fees of Princeville.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 4, 2022)

Seems that they are lining Princeville up with what they offer for Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club. This kind of makes sense with no better way to really do it.


----------



## grrrah (Aug 4, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I agree that Princeville's number is too low.  The salesperson tried to explain that the property does not have ocean view and hence the lower conversion.  I would be pissed if I had bought from the developer.  No, I don't own there.


Well it's ~30% lower than the Island views at the maui properties at 148k SOs.  Sorta reflective of the demand/availability


----------



## daviator (Aug 4, 2022)

grrrah said:


> Well it's ~30% lower than the Island views at the maui properties at 148k SOs.  Sorta reflective of the demand/availability


I agree that demand seems to be the main factor in the assigned DC point values.  Legacy sales prices for the units are probably not a factor at all.

Every time I search for availability at WKORV, there is pretty much always availability at Princeville even when WKORV is unavailable. My perception is that the demand is much lower for Kauai, and that's why the DC values are lower than Maui.

At this point, they are no longer selling (or almost no longer selling) weeks ownerships, and so what people paid for legacy weeks is really only of interest to those people who bought them.  Going forward, it's all DPs, and those seem to have been assigned values based on demand first, and local price factors second.


----------



## MikeHoncho (Aug 4, 2022)

I'm new to all of this so I apologize if this is a dumb question. We're still trying to figure how to enter this timeshare game and I was wondering if it's been established that resale points from a mandatory resort will be able to be converted to the DC points on a yearly basis.

If so it seems like the  WKORV-N resorts higher MF would be a little easier to tolerate if you aren't using it for Hawaii every year..


----------



## byeloe (Aug 4, 2022)

MikeHoncho said:


> I'm new to all of this so I apologize if this is a dumb question. We're still trying to figure how to enter this timeshare game and I was wondering if it's been established that resale points from a mandatory resort will be able to be converted to the DC points on a yearly basis.
> 
> If so it seems like the  WKORV-N resorts higher MF would be a little easier to tolerate if you aren't using it for Hawaii every year..


not established yet


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Aug 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Seems that they are lining Princeville up with what they offer for Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club. This kind of makes sense with no better way to really do it.
> 
> View attachment 61638


That makes sense, except of course if you was one of the unlucky folks who parted with around $50K and now not only see very little value in a potential resale but also little value in their trading power. I guess SO and II will remain their best options.


----------



## jcflorian (Aug 5, 2022)

Princeville is a beautiful property,   On cliff where you can watch the sunrise and the sunset each day.   Within 15 minutes drive of Hanilei Beach and town.   Gorgeous area.   But no beach on property, unless you hike 15 min down a steep embarkment for a beach covered in branches and rocks.  

That is the one and very large drawback.      I am owner at Kaanapali North, and while I prefer Kauai to Maui,  I feel there is tremendous value in a 2 BR oceanfront lockoff in Maui.   Nothing against the Princeville villas,  but value is not there.        Ironically though, we are giving up our 2 wks in Maui in 2023 for a wk in Kauai,  wk in St John and 4 extra days in Kauai at the Sheraton.    My wife just loves Kauai so much.


----------



## kozykritter (Aug 5, 2022)

Whoop! Whoop! Off topic alert 

Dioxide created this thread to gather statistical information about the DP value being assigned to each type of week to put in a spreadsheet for everyone to access. I figure we owe it to him to limit our posts to that information only.


----------



## grrrah (Aug 8, 2022)

jcflorian said:


> That is the one and very large drawback.      I am owner at Kaanapali North, and while I prefer Kauai to Maui,  I feel there is tremendous value in a 2 BR oceanfront lockoff in Maui.   Nothing against the Princeville villas,  but value is not there.        Ironically though, we are giving up our 2 wks in Maui in 2023 for a wk in Kauai,  wk in St John and 4 extra days in Kauai at the Sheraton.    My wife just loves Kauai so much.


We feel the same way about both Kauai and Princeville.  We only wish the Sheraton 1-bedroom allowed for 4 people (2 adults and 2 toddlers).  booking via marriott it says 4-person capacity, but vistana says 2.  

To get back on the point conversion topic, us Maui owners do see some value with the DC point discount for Kauai as we've always seen it as 1:1 through vistana.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Aug 8, 2022)

grrrah said:


> We feel the same way about both Kauai and Princeville.  We only wish the Sheraton 1-bedroom allowed for 4 people (2 adults and 2 toddlers).  booking via marriott it says 4-person capacity, but vistana says 2.
> 
> To get back on the point conversion topic, us Maui owners do see some value with the DC point discount for Kauai as we've always seen it as 1:1 through vistana.



There are many properties in Vistana that are 1:1 with Maui that I wouldn't consider equitable but it's all down to personal preferences really. It's easy to see the attraction of buying at those properties where initial outlay and MFs are far less but offer the attraction to 'trade up' to Maui.


----------



## daviator (Aug 8, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> There are many properties in Vistana that are 1:1 with Maui that I wouldn't consider equitable but it's all down to personal preferences really. It's easy to see the attraction of buying at those properties where initial outlay and MFs are far less but offer the attraction to 'trade up' to Maui.


…and for years, the sales folks at places like WDW and Lagunamar pushed their products in exactly that way, saying “buy where you can get the best ratio of price and MF to StarOptions.  Buy here and then go to Maui, don’t buy in Maui where the MFs and cost are much higher.”  That was a decent strategy for a long time.  But now, it’s less simple, since in general, those “cheaper” resorts are also worth a lot fewer DPs in the Abound program. You really have to consider where you will want to stay most frequently and whether the lower DP value even matters to you.  For those who will just stay within VSN, it may be irrelevant.

If indeed the only option for new purchases from the developer will be DPs, then there are no more home resorts and no more varying costs, except in how many DPs must be redeemed for use. A pretty dramatic shift, even from Flex, on the developer sales side.

I am still wondering where resale owners will be left.  I’m presuming they will not get access to the DP network unless they buy something to requalify their ownership, but I don’t think we know that for sure  Yet.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 8, 2022)

daviator said:


> I am still wondering where resale owners will be left. I’m presuming they will not get access to the DP network unless they buy something to requalify their ownership, but I don’t think we know that for sure Yet.


And there are still two classes of resale owners, voluntary and mandatory. Every sales presentation I have been to (three) recently, the sales people have been coy about if we as mandatory owners would have access to Abound.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

Went to update today.  We are 5 star elite with Vistana in Maui at KOR and KORN. We have 3 weeks 52 one being OV, one OF and one IV.  The OF was valued at 10925 and the other 2 IV and OV value 8075.  These 3 are not qualified.  They were purchased outside of sales.  The others weeks we own were valued at 6200 for 2BR ov or iv and of at 8325.  They wanted 30k minimum margin to retro anything in.  They wanted our IV 2br odd year plus 55k for annual 2br ov and they would retro in our week 52s.  We were not interested as we told them we understood the point value we wont get for marriott but my argument is I would never swap those as those are great rental weeks.  They tried to tell me they only had 1 week left of them selling deeded property.  With what we have that would covert to marriot points it was over 30k.  I think my 5 weeks in the system of vistana had much more value than club points.  But we love Maui and have no desire to travel elsewhere.   Unfortunately our sales rep was still learning the abound system


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

daviator said:


> …and for years, the sales folks at places like WDW and Lagunamar pushed their products in exactly that way, saying “buy where you can get the best ratio of price and MF to StarOptions.  Buy here and then go to Maui, don’t buy in Maui where the MFs and cost are much higher.”  That was a decent strategy for a long time.  But now, it’s less simple, since in general, those “cheaper” resorts are also worth a lot fewer DPs in the Abound program. You really have to consider where you will want to stay most frequently and whether the lower DP value even matters to you.  For those who will just stay within VSN, it may be irrelevant.
> 
> If indeed the only option for new purchases from the developer will be DPs, then there are no more home resorts and no more varying costs, except in how many DPs must be redeemed for use. A pretty dramatic shift, even from Flex, on the developer sales side.
> 
> I am still wondering where resale owners will be left.  I’m presuming they will not get access to the DP network unless they buy something to requalify their ownership, but I don’t think we know that for sure  Yet.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

We were told resale would not work in abound.  We would have to buy something to retro in.


----------



## Rman (Aug 11, 2022)

I was told the fees to retro in was 10k for first week and 5 k for second week, I knew in advance they didn't specifically offer me this deal they wanted to sell a higher product, where did you go for your presentation was maui, the fee to retro in is cheaper , though can pm me if interested if in maui, one of the managers there is not that pushy the others I don't know about etc..


----------



## wjarcher (Aug 11, 2022)

If you have mandatory resale weeks, I would highly recommend holding off spending to retro them into Abound.  The opportunity of retro'ing won't go away (remember that the sales were saying in early summer that it is the last chance to buy; but they are still saying that now), and it might not be needed.  Just wait for the official announcement which should be out in a couple of months.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

daviator said:


> …and for years, the sales folks at places like WDW and Lagunamar pushed their products in exactly that way, saying “buy where you can get the best ratio of price and MF to StarOptions.  Buy here and then go to Maui, don’t buy in Maui where the MFs and cost are much higher.”  That was a decent strategy for a long time.  But now, it’s less simple, since in general, those “cheaper” resorts are also worth a lot fewer DPs in the Abound program. You really have to consider where you will want to stay most frequently and whether the lower DP value even matters to you.  For those who will just stay within VSN, it may be irrelevant.
> 
> If indeed the only option for new purchases from the developer will be DPs, then there are no more home resorts and no more varying costs, except in how many DPs must be redeemed for use. A pretty dramatic shift, even from Flex, on the developer sales side.
> 
> I am still wondering where resale owners will be left.  I’m presuming they will not get access to the DP network unless they buy something to requalify their ownership, but I don’t think we know that for sure  Yet.


I was told today in owner update in Maui resale owners wont have access


----------



## Eric B (Aug 11, 2022)

Grandma2016 said:


> I was told today in owner update in Maui resale owners wont have access



Shouldn’t be a major surprise that sales would say that to someone owning resale.  Sometimes they either don’t know yet or don’t want to tell you you don’t have a need to buy something, though.  I would still wait (and am).


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 11, 2022)

Grandma2016 said:


> Went to update today. We are 5 star elite with Vistana in Maui at KOR and KORN. We have 3 weeks 52 one being OV, one OF and one IV. The OF was valued at 10925 and the other 2 IV and OV value 8075. These 3 are not qualified. They were purchased outside of sales. The others weeks we own were valued at 6200 for 2BR ov or iv and of at 8325.


Since we are trying to create a list here, can you clarify these numbers?
10,925 - Week 52 - Is this WKORV North or South?
8,075 - Just Platinum? North or South?
6,200 ???
8,325 ???
Are these all two bedroom units?


----------



## DanCali (Aug 11, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> If you have mandatory resale weeks, I would highly recommend holding off spending to retro them into Abound.  The opportunity of retro'ing won't go away (remember that the sales were saying in early summer that it is the last chance to buy; but they are still saying that now), and it might not be needed.  Just wait for the official announcement which should be out in a couple of months.



I agree the opportunity to retro will not go away. But the flipside is that you may be asked to spend $30K+ down the road instead of $10K now and regret that choice to wait for many years to come... While Vistana retros are $10K for 1 week and $5K for additional weeks, historically MVC retros have been much costlier. One can hope MVC reduces retro prices, there is no reliable evidence to suggest it will happen anytime in the near future, or ever. 

To me, the idea that resale mandatory weeks will be allowed to simply enroll without a developer purchase seems like wishful thinking. Just because Starwood Vacation Ownership had an oversight 20+ years ago that involved a handful of resorts doesn't mean MVC now has to blow up its entire business plan if they can find a way to avoid it. Anyone who believes that mandatory resale week will get a freebie, should have been busy buying a bunch of Maui OV weeks in the past few months because they will look like geniuses in a few weeks. 6000+ Points for less than $15K upfront and ~2600 in MF is a fantastic deal. I'd do it all day long if I thought there was any reasonable chance it could happen...


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Since we are trying to create a list here, can you clarify these numbers?
> 10,925 - Week 52 - Is this WKORV North or South?
> 8,075 - Just Platinum? North or South?
> 6,200 ???
> ...


10925 is North week 52 OF 2br
8075 is week 52.  Same value for South OV and North IV.
All week 52s are 2 bedrooms
6200 is for my 2 br units at south.  Same value whether ov or iv not week 52
8325 is South 2br OF deluxe corner not week 52


----------



## wjarcher (Aug 11, 2022)

DanCali said:


> To me, the idea that resale mandatory weeks will be allowed to simply enroll without a developer purchase seems like wishful thinking.



Probably don't want to continue this discussion because it is off topic of this thread.  I've seen something in writing that indicates it is not wishful thinking.


----------



## DanCali (Aug 11, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> Probably don't want to continue this discussion because it is off topic of this thread.  I've seen something in writing that indicates it is not wishful thinking.



Then I hope you're the one picking up those Maui OV/IV weeks that seem to be flying off the RedWeek shelf hand over first  

6200 DC points would cost over $37K (resale, after junk fees). And the maintenance fees on that are $4000. If you can get that at sub-$15K on RedWeek by buying mandatory weeks now and pay only $2600-$2800 in MFs annually it's almost the deal of a lifetime, literally. In fact, it's such a good deal that I would expect even MVC and Vistana salespeople who possibly have some more insight than us to be buying those weeks and driving the prices up way more than they are today.

I guess we shall see... but I'd love to know what you've seen


----------



## wjarcher (Aug 11, 2022)

DanCali said:


> Then I hope you're the one picking up those Maui OV/IV weeks that seem to be flying off the RedWeek shelf hand over first
> 
> 6200 DC points would cost over $37K (resale, after junk fees). And the maintenance fees on that are $4000. If you can get that at sub-$15K on RedWeek by buying mandatory weeks now and pay only $2600-$2800 in MFs annually it's almost the deal of a lifetime, literally. In fact, it's such a good deal that I would expect even MVC and Vistana salespeople who possibly have some more insight than us to be buying those weeks and driving the prices up way more than they are today.
> 
> I guess we shall see... but I'd love to know what you've seen



I got to see Marriott's rule very recently (I'll update the other thread with the information I've obtained).  But even if I knew, I doubt I would have purchased WKORV/N weeks.  There are other weeks which I think are better points generators with lower MFs.  Isn't the general sense here in this board that owners here would like to keep the westin Maui weeks in the VSN rather than electing Marriott points.


----------



## DanCali (Aug 11, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> I got to see Marriott's rule very recently (I'll update the other thread with the information I've obtained).  But even if I knew, I doubt I would have purchased WKORV/N weeks.  There are other weeks which I think are better points generators with lower MFs.  Isn't the general sense here in this board that owners here would like to keep the westin Maui weeks in the VSN rather than electing Marriott points.




My sense is that, if you are already a DC member and can rent points from others, then Maui weeks and Lagunamar Platinum weeks (voluntary) are probably the only ones worth considering converting to DC points. 

I would not convert my WKV or HRA weeks to points. Their rental value as weeks is worth a lot more than the rental value of the points, which is the main criterion I care about once I already own them. Why elect 4050 DC points for WKV when I can rent it out for $4500 (or more), and use that cash to rent 4050 points from someone else, and keep an extra $1700 in my pocket? Or I can rent 6400 points from someone instead of 4050. Or I could just try to trade into Hawaii via VSN if that's what I wanted to do.

The rental value of 6200 DC points is about $4300, which is a lot closer to the rental value of Maui weeks so it's a much closer call. And the MFs on that are about 0.45c/point which is around the same as the WKV 2BR Platinum.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

MikeHoncho said:


> I'm new to all of this so I apologize if this is a dumb question. We're still trying to figure how to enter this timeshare game and I was wondering if it's been established that resale points from a mandatory resort will be able to be converted to the DC points on a yearly basis.
> 
> If so it seems like the  WKORV-N resorts higher MF would be a little easier to tolerate if you aren't using it for Hawaii every year..


At our owner update yesterday we were told no on resale.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

Rman said:


> I was told the fees to retro in was 10k for first week and 5 k for second week, I knew in advance they didn't specifically offer me this deal they wanted to sell a higher product, where did you go for your presentation was maui, the fee to retro in is cheaper , though can pm me if interested if in maui, one of the managers there is not that pushy the others I don't know about etc..


We were in Maui.  They did not offer the retro of our resale weeks.  They only offered to sell another deed and retro the week 52s we have.  I wasnt interested in that as our week 52s will rent always at a higher rate.  Imho


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 11, 2022)

Grandma2016 said:


> 10925 is North week 52 OF 2br
> 8075 is week 52.  Same value for South OV and North IV.
> All week 52s are 2 bedrooms
> 6200 is for my 2 br units at south.  Same value whether ov or iv not week 52
> 8325 is South 2br OF deluxe corner not week 52


Okay. I think I have everything documented in the Google Sheet correctly.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Okay. I think I have everything documented in the Google Sheet correctly.


Dumb ?  Where do I find what a person can rent with Club points?


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 11, 2022)

Grandma2016 said:


> Dumb ?  Where do I find what a person can rent with Club points?


If you are a MVC Point owner or own enrolled weeks (in the future enrolled Vistana VOIs), you can rent Club Points from other owners. They cost about $0.70pp and can be transferred directly to your account from the owner that rents them to you. Check www.vacationpointexchange.com.


----------



## Grandma2016 (Aug 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> If you are a MVC Point owner or own enrolled weeks (in the future enrolled Vistana VOIs), you can rent Club Points from other owners. They cost about $0.70pp and can be transferred directly to your account from the owner that rents them to you. Check www.vacationpointexchange.com.


So if my 2 br ov is worth 6200 points in Marriott i could rent for 4340 dollars.   Or i can keep it and rent it for at least that if not more   for example my week 52s are worth 8075 points non OF at .70 per point definitely not worth it.  I get over 7k for week 52.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2022)

Grandma2016 said:


> So if my 2 br ov is worth 6200 points in Marriott i could rent for 4340 dollars.   Or i can keep it and rent it for at least that if not more   for example my week 52s are worth 8075 points non OF at .70 per point definitely not worth it.  I get over 7k for week 52.


The difference with renting points though is that once they are rented you are done. You simply transfer the points to the other owner and you have no further obligation. No worries about the owner cancelling, asking to cancel, asking to change dates, saying the room sucked, chargebacks. You completed your obligation when you transferred the points and it is up to the renter to find and book their accommodations. There is less risk in renting points than renting actual reservations.


----------



## munthank (Aug 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I have started to create a conversion tracker to keep track of the amount of points allocaetd to each VOI. I know everything right now is still speculation or information gleaned from attending a sales presentation, but at some point I suspect we will get official numbers. For now we can start tracking based on what we have learned in the other threads and update later if necessary. I don't have time at the moment to go through the other threads to update this sheet, creating it is as far as I got. But if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, feel free. The lined Google Sheet is open to comments (opening for edit gets messy). If you find something to add right click on the cell and select "Comment" then indicate what should be in the cell. Mainly looking to verify the breakdown of the sheet is correct but also to populate columns J, M and N. For resorts that are weeks based, I would prefer to populate N and calculate M. For Flex based items, it will just be M that gets populated to indicate the conversion of points. Based on the comments I can update the data in the actual cells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had the same amount points shown to me for platinum Kierland at 4050, I saw points convert for 200000 Sheraton flex to be 5840 point conversion, and Desert Willow gold 67500 points convert 2300.


----------



## DanCali (Aug 13, 2022)

wjarcher said:


> I got to see Marriott's rule very recently (I'll update the other thread with the information I've obtained).



Can't wait to hear about this info... Please don't keep us all in suspense!


----------



## docbike (Aug 13, 2022)

Back to the spreadsheet, part of the value calculation should be the EC points you get per maintenance fee $.  Attached are the calculations for the Vistana resorts I own at.  Interestingly, Kierland and Kaanapali regular 2BRs convert almost identically.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2022)

docbike said:


> View attachment 62433
> Back to the spreadsheet, part of the value calculation should be the EC points you get per maintenance fee $.  Attached are the calculations for the Vistana resorts I own at.  Interestingly, Kierland and Kaanapali regular 2BRs convert almost identically.


What is an EC point?


----------



## DanCali (Aug 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> What is an EC point?




It's DC point misspelled


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 13, 2022)

DanCali said:


> It's DC point misspelled


Ah, that makes sense. I am not interested in producing a calculator to determine DC points to MFs ratios. That becomes an annual commitment to update and maintain as maintenance fees go up. One of those is already done on the Marriott side and perhaps at some point the Vistana resorts can be incorporated into that.


----------



## wjarcher (Aug 13, 2022)

DanCali said:


> Can't wait to hear about this info... Please don't keep us all in suspense!



Sorry for the delay. I just posted it in the other discussion thread.


----------



## jcflorian (Aug 15, 2022)

I am still a little confused.  I own 2 br lockoff   (OCEANFRONT)  for WKORN.   Any wk available to us.   Do we convert to 10,925 or 8325

Unless we were told the wrong info at purchase.   We were told any wk all year available 12 months from purchase.   We never go during xmas anyways but nice to have that option.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 15, 2022)

jcflorian said:


> I am still a little confused.  I own 2 br lockoff   (OCEANFRONT)  for WKORN.   Any wk available to us.   Do we convert to 10,925 or 8325
> 
> Unless we were told the wrong info at purchase.   We were told any wk all year available 12 months from purchase.   We never go during xmas anyways but nice to have that option.


Platinum season OF is worth 8,325 but if you own a fixed OF week 52, then it can convert to 10,925.


----------



## daviator (Aug 15, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Platinum season OF is worth 8,325 but if you own a fixed OF week 52, then it can convert to 10,925.


Christmas week will never be available at 12 months, as I understand it.  In theory, if someone who owns week 52 decides not to use their unit one year (and books a different property at 8 months with StarOptions) it’s possible that some other owner could use SOs to snatch that week for that year.  In practice I think that’s nearly impossible.

Sales probably did tell you “you can reserve any time” but the reality is that week 52 was sold as a fixed week and owners of that week are automatically pre-reserved each year, I think, unless they opt for some other usage.


----------



## wjarcher (Aug 15, 2022)

daviator said:


> Christmas week will never be available at 12 months, as I understand it.  In theory, if someone who owns week 52 decides not to use their unit one year (and books a different property at 8 months with StarOptions) it’s possible that some other owner could use SOs to snatch that week for that year.  In practice I think that’s nearly impossible.
> 
> Sales probably did tell you “you can reserve any time” but the reality is that week 52 was sold as a fixed week and owners of that week are automatically pre-reserved each year, I think, unless they opt for some other usage.



You cannot make reservation for week 51/52 on vistana.com if you only own floating weeks.  I think if the owner of these weeks cancels their reservation, Vistana would take the inventory for rentals.   I own a couple of these weeks, and had to call in to make changes to these weeks (when the ownership was transferred, the reservation had to be rebooked).


----------



## jcflorian (Aug 15, 2022)

I like being with my extended family for Xmas so its not really an issue for me.   We purchased in 2007,  at that time things may have been different.


----------



## kozykritter (Aug 15, 2022)

Whoop! Whoop! Off topic alert 

Dioxide created this thread to gather statistical information about the DP value being assigned to each type of week to put in a spreadsheet for everyone to access. I figure we owe it to him to limit our posts to that information only.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 15, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Whoop! Whoop! Off topic alert
> 
> Dioxide created this thread to gather statistical information about the DP value being assigned to each type of week to put in a spreadsheet for everyone to access. I figure we owe it to him to limit our posts to that information only.


Thanks. I don't mind the odd discussion about conversion rates and comparisons as to what those are and how they might impact usage. I am trying to like all the posts so I know which ones I have tracked in the spreadsheet and where I last updated in the thread, but picking out the true conversion numbers is tricky. Though it helps if people can add comments to the spreadsheet as I get an email every time someone does. Many people update the sheet and never post here. Which is just fine by me.


----------



## KACTravels (Aug 15, 2022)

Love the spreadsheet. Could you please fix the top row so that we can see the headers as we scroll down?  I will also have some conversation rates later today after our “Owners Update”. Thanks!


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 15, 2022)

KACTravels said:


> Love the spreadsheet. Could you please fix the top row so that we can see the headers as we scroll down?  I will also have some conversation rates later today after our “Owners Update”. Thanks!


Done


----------



## jthiker (Aug 18, 2022)

Adding some information for Westin St. John

WSJ Coral Vista Studio Gold Plus (weeks 34 - 50) 44,000 StarOptions to 1,135 Abound points.   Per MVC presentation this past May.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 18, 2022)

jthiker said:


> Adding some information for Westin St. John
> 
> WSJ Coral Vista Studio Gold Plus (weeks 34 - 50) 44,000 StarOptions to 1,135 Abound points.   Per MVC presentation this past May.


I understand that Coral Vista was sold as Home Options and not deeded units, is that correct? Can your HomeOptions also only be booked in the Gold Plus season? If so, it would seem you have a 38.77 conversion rate. Higher seasons might have better conversations?


----------



## jthiker (Aug 19, 2022)

Yes I believe you are correct as Home Options.  I can book the Coral Vista in the Gold Plus season and book all other Vistana at 8 months.


----------



## controller1 (Aug 20, 2022)

Westin Nanea OceanFront's conversion is 22.254


----------



## Helios (Aug 20, 2022)

WSJ SB Diamond Season 2 BR will convert to 4,930 points = 35.842


----------



## Eric B (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Thanks for this. I have updated the Google Sheet. Interesting that they have a 100 point difference between Bella and Key west even though the units are pretty much identical.



Bella and Key West have a different set of weeks for Prime and High seasons.  A Bella 2 BR Prime being 100 higher is probably matched by High being 100 lower than Key West because the seasonal point averages would be different while the annual point averages should match.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 22, 2022)

Eric B said:


> Bella and Key West have a different set of weeks for Prime and High seasons.  A Bella 2 BR Prime being 100 higher is probably matched by High being 100 lower than Key West because the seasonal point averages would be different while the annual point averages should match.


I'm not sure they would make High season at Key West higher and Prime season lower. I suspect for whatever reason they determined the point value to be lower. Perhaps based on original purchase price or some other metric they used to determine these point allocation values.


----------



## Eric B (Aug 22, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I'm not sure they would make High season at Key West higher and Prime season lower. I suspect for whatever reason they determined the point value to be lower. Perhaps based on original purchase price or some other metric they used to determine these point allocation values.



Bella prime season omits a chunk of weeks in the fall and is something like 7-17 vice 6-17 (I’m not at home and don’t have good access to the range right now).  As a result, there are fewer low demand weeks at Bella for a Prime season owner, which should result in a shift in the average value of a floating week in that season higher and probably got it to the 100 point difference.  Someone else had posted that the assigned values for a floating week could be approximated by taking the average value of a week through the season in the table used to book it and reducing it by the 7% skim.  I did the math and it seemed to work for a couple on your spreadsheet with rounding to 25 or so.

I seriously doubt they assigned a different value to Bella as compared to Key West based on differences between the two phases.  They aren’t listed differently valued in the amounts needed to book them, after all. I’d just used Occam’s Razor and attributed the difference in valuation to the most obvious difference between the two.  It could be something else, but that would argue for different values on the booking side, too.

Edited to add:  Key West Prime season is weeks # 6-17, 23-34, 39-47, & 51-52.  Bella Prime Season is weeks # 7-17, 23-34 & 51-52, which leaves out week 6 and weeks 39-47 as compared to Key West.  Week 6 is valued at 2900 to book (though the last several days are in the 3,500/week range for week 7) and weeks 39-47 are valued at 2,500 per week - that is there are 9 weeks 325 below the reported assigned value for Bella and one week that is 75 above the reported assigned value.

((9*325)-(1*75))/34=83.8

There may be a difference in the skim and rounding involved that make it a 100 point difference.  There's also the different number of weeks in the seasons, but I don't really feel like doing the full calculation.


----------



## GregT (Aug 23, 2022)

Hello Jeremy,

My 1BR SVV Bella is 1,400 for Platinum and 1,200 for Gold. My 1Br SVV Key West Gold is 1,175.

These are the smaller 1BRs,44K and 37K StarOptions.  

Thanks very much for starting this!

Best,

Greg


----------



## skibummer (Aug 23, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I have started to create a conversion tracker to keep track of the amount of points allocaetd to each VOI. I know everything right now is still speculation or information gleaned from attending a sales presentation, but at some point I suspect we will get official numbers. For now we can start tracking based on what we have learned in the other threads and update later if necessary. I don't have time at the moment to go through the other threads to update this sheet, creating it is as far as I got. But if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, feel free. The lined Google Sheet is open to comments (opening for edit gets messy). If you find something to add right click on the cell and select "Comment" then indicate what should be in the cell. Mainly looking to verify the breakdown of the sheet is correct but also to populate columns J, M and N. For resorts that are weeks based, I would prefer to populate N and calculate M. For Flex based items, it will just be M that gets populated to indicate the conversion of points. Based on the comments I can update the data in the actual cells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can someone please clarify the Abound points conversion for a Westin Mission Hills Platinum 2-bedroom lockout. The Tug spreadsheet shows 3150, but what I was told by a sales agent was 3125. If anyone can clarify I would appreciate the correct info.


----------



## Jimmyboy (Aug 24, 2022)

pchung6 said:


> No matter how I tried to look Marriott Points and tried my best to like it, Marriott points just look sucks to me. Staroptions are just way better. I will keep using SOs until strange things happen to change my mind.



I think it's best to assume you are better off if you can stay in your own network and only go into Abound or Interval exchange if you have a desired location you want to visit knowing you won't get as good as a value but have that additional option.  I just wonder how the high demand premium locations will fair as well as accessability knowing you can't trade in unless someone trades out.   I guess that's the million dollar question.


----------



## Jimmyboy (Aug 24, 2022)

skibummer said:


> Can someone please clarify the Abound points conversion for a Westin Mission Hills Platinum 2-bedroom lockout. The Tug spreadsheet shows 3150, but what I was told by a sales agent was 3125. If anyone can clarify I would appreciate the correct info.



Can we really trust the information given to us by sales agents?  These updates are great for accumulating Bonvoy points but not good for getting critical information.









						Vistana_DC_ConversionRates
					

Sheet1  Resort Code,Resort Name,Phase,Company Name,City,State,Country,Region,Unit Size,View,Home Season,VSN Season,StarOptions,Conversion,Elected Club Points SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis,Vistana,Scottsdale,AZ,USA,Domestic,2BR Lockoff,N/A,1-21, 50-52,Platinum Plus,148,000,2,375 SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis




					docs.google.com


----------



## damianinpa (Aug 24, 2022)

It will be interesting to see how many club points are awarded.  I own Vistana Week 27 Palms unit/2 bedroom that is listed as prime season.  It's hard to tell from the chart, but, I might only get 2425 points.  But, looking at the abound points chart, going to Vistana that week for a 2 bedroom requires 2900 points.  So, shouldn't I be entitled to 2900 points?  I hope they announce the club points soon. I see all the videos on the Vistana website, but, nothing says when points will be awarded or where they will show up.  I assume under the 'what I own' area.


----------



## Joshadelic (Aug 24, 2022)

I'm not sure exactly where to post this. I just posted this in a thread that was closed and marked as "duplicate"... Here's my original message:

Sorry, but I'm confused. I haven't been keeping up with the changes here.

Am I understanding correctly that we will have the option to just keep our VSN account as it currently is rather than have everything converted to this new Abound program? Other than the fact that I think I will now get lifetime Bonvoy Platinum status, I don't see many other advantages.

This is what I currently own:
1 week SDO "true platinum" studio (67,100 SO's yearly)
1 week SVV Bella platinum 2br L/O (95,700 SO's yearly)

The SDO week was retro'd when I did a transaction with corporate to purchase the SVV week. I don't know if that matters or not. I currently have 162,800 yearly SO's and 3* Elite status. I'm not sure where everyone is getting their information on what exactly their current ownership converts to, but from the looks of it, I would have 5,100 points with the new Abound program. With my StarOptions, I can book 1 week in Hawaii in a 2br L/O, but with the new program it looks like I won't have enough points to do that. Am I getting this right? If so, that sucks.

With all of these changes pending, are there any actions I should take immediately? Like banking my SO's or making reservations before this all goes bonkers?

Any helpful information any of you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I'm just now trying to get up to speed.

Thanks,
Josh


----------



## vacationtime1 (Aug 24, 2022)

Joshadelic said:


> I'm not sure exactly where to post this. I just posted this in a thread that was closed and marked as "duplicate"... Here's my original message:
> 
> Sorry, but I'm confused. I haven't been keeping up with the changes here.
> 
> ...


You can still reserve a 2bd lockoff in Hawaii; just continue to use StarOptions as you have been.  Electing Club Points is an annual choice; if you don't elect points, you have your StarOptions as you did in the past.

The real issue will be availability.  We won't know the answer to that until the program is in place and running.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 24, 2022)

Jimmyboy said:


> Can we really trust the information given to us by sales agents?  These updates are great for accumulating Bonvoy points but not good for getting critical information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's the best we have right now. I suspect the numbers are right, or at least close.


----------



## cubigbird (Aug 24, 2022)

I wonder what this conversion does to WKV Plat+ resale value?  Up until recent, resale values for a 2BD LO have been +/- $15,000.  I wonder if that now would be different.  Curious to if we will see a market price change.


----------



## dioxide45 (Aug 24, 2022)

cubigbird said:


> I wonder what this conversion does to WKV Plat+ resale value?  Up until recent, resale values for a 2BD LO have been +/- $15,000.  I wonder if that now would be different.  Curious to if we will see a market price change.


I doubt it will change much. It doesn't get a lot of Club Points in Abound and it won't come enrolled unless you later buy trust points through some type of enrollment offer. It still rents well and will have VSN since it is mandatory.


----------



## KG8 (Sep 9, 2022)

Has anyone who owns week 51 purchased from developer at WKORV 2 Bed IV gone to an owner update to find out how many Abound points that will translate to? I saw week 52 is 8,075 Abound points and weeks 1-50 is 6,200 Abound points.


----------



## Souchiam (Sep 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I have started to create a conversion tracker to keep track of the amount of points allocaetd to each VOI. I know everything right now is still speculation or information gleaned from attending a sales presentation, but at some point I suspect we will get official numbers. For now we can start tracking based on what we have learned in the other threads and update later if necessary. I don't have time at the moment to go through the other threads to update this sheet, creating it is as far as I got. But if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, feel free. The lined Google Sheet is open to comments (opening for edit gets messy). If you find something to add right click on the cell and select "Comment" then indicate what should be in the cell. Mainly looking to verify the breakdown of the sheet is correct but also to populate columns J, M and N. For resorts that are weeks based, I would prefer to populate N and calculate M. For Flex based items, it will just be M that gets populated to indicate the conversion of points. Based on the comments I can update the data in the actual cells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is so helpful, thank you for creating this.


----------



## TravelTime (Sep 12, 2022)

Do OV and IV in WKOVRN OF 2BR both convert to 6200 points? That would seem odd for different views to get the same points.


----------



## Cody Penn-Dent (Sep 12, 2022)

Here are mine

NORV (Nanea) Odd year resort view 100,000 star options: 4,235 (annualized 2,118)
NORV Even year resort view 100,000 star options: 4,235 (annualized 2,118)
NORV every year resort view 67,100 star options: 2,840
NORV every year resort view 48,000 star options: 2,030

Aventuras every year 192,000 star options: 6,395


----------



## TravelTime (Sep 12, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I doubt it will change much. It doesn't get a lot of Club Points in Abound and it won't come enrolled unless you later buy trust points through some type of enrollment offer. It still rents well and will have VSN since it is mandatory.



I wonder if it will decline over time esp as VSN is less available for exchanging with SOs at 8 months and many people have purchased Kierland as a SO trader.

As a comparison in the same city, Four Seasons Troon is under $10K for high season and the units are larger and pet friendly not to mention other benefits. Four Seasons is valued very highly in ThirdHome and Elite Alliance for trading in those systems in addition to opportunity to exchange with II. It is not a great value with II but you can lock off the studio and deposit in II and deposit the 1BR in ThirdHome or Elite Alliance and get a lot of value that way. With Four Seasons, you can trade into Carlsbad/San Diego and you can also enter the annual lottery to exchange into their other properties, which we did to go to Costa Rica in 2019. MF is high but not significantly higher for the differences. So maybe looking at Troon in their Platinum season would be a semi-decent comparison of where the buy-in cost could go over time.

Since we have pets, I would always buy a pet friendly week over a regular timeshare. That is why we purchased Four Seasons Aviara.

I have not been to Scottsdale so my opinion is from afar. But I have stayed at Westin and Four Seasons and I think Four Seasons is “upscale luxury” while Westin is “upscale mass market.”


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 12, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Do OV and IV in WKOVRN OF 2BR both convert to 6200 points? That would seem odd for different views to get the same points.


Yes, they get the same number of StarOptions.


----------



## TravelTime (Sep 12, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, they get the same number of StarOptions.



Shouldn’t OV be worth more than IV? Any theories as to why they made them the same?


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 12, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Shouldn’t OV be worth more than IV? Any theories as to why they made them the same?


No idea. I suspect they were looking at the number of StarOptions. They did the same at other resorts like Lagunamar with Ocean View and Ocean Side. I personally think this is a big miss when trying to roll it into the combined program.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Sep 12, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Shouldn’t OV be worth more than IV? Any theories as to why they made them the same?


It's also the same at WKORV I believe where in some instances the IV v OV are only separated by the floor number in the same building and cost the same number of SO to reserve.


----------



## ocdb8r (Sep 13, 2022)

They have done similar at a few MVC resorts as well.  For example, at Aruba Surf Club the "Oceanside" and "Oceanview" categories were assigned the same number of points.


----------



## blondietink (Sep 14, 2022)

I don't see a category for Sheraton Vistana Villages St. Augustine section in your chart.


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 14, 2022)

blondietink said:


> I don't see a category for Sheraton Vistana Villages St. Augustine section in your chart.


Yeah, the resorts with multiple phases got messy. If you have a number of points to report, you can put the details here. Or you can use one of the blank lines or rows that matches up best and add comments to the Google Sheet.


----------



## Souchiam (Sep 26, 2022)

docbike said:


> View attachment 62433
> Back to the spreadsheet, part of the value calculation should be the EC points you get per maintenance fee $.  Attached are the calculations for the Vistana resorts I own at.  Interestingly, Kierland and Kaanapali regular 2BRs convert almost identically.


would you share this spreadsheet with me?  Thank you.


----------



## Eric B (Sep 26, 2022)

Souchiam said:


> would you share this spreadsheet with me?  Thank you.



It’s linked in post #1.


----------



## dioxide45 (Sep 26, 2022)

Just a reminder. If you find something on the sheet that needs updated or a value entered. Use the add comment function (right click on the cell in browser) to add a comment. I won't be sharing the sheet for updates to be made by everyone.


----------



## Souchiam (Sep 26, 2022)

docbike said:


> View attachment 62433
> Back to the spreadsheet, part of the value calculation should be the EC points you get per maintenance fee $.  Attached are the calculations for the Vistana resorts I own at.  Interestingly, Kierland and Kaanapali regular 2BRs convert almost identically.


Docbike’s spreadsheet includes maintenance fee etc. vs. post #1


----------



## TravelTime (Sep 27, 2022)

I just logged into Vistana and I saw this on my dashboard:

———————

The points listed below represent the value of points you receive if you convert your VOI with the Marriott Bonvoy program.

286,254

———————

The value of my current week WKOVRN 2BR OF Platinum is 176,700. They are showing me that my week is worth more with Bonvoy than with StarOptions.

What do other people see with their week? What resort, size, view and season do you own? I am curious how many accounts are showing their week(s) worth more in Abound than with SOs.


----------



## ocdb8r (Sep 27, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I just logged into Vistana and I saw this on my dashboard:
> 
> ———————
> 
> ...



Bonvoy and Abound are not the same...I suspect what you're looking at is the number of Bonvoy points you will get (not Abound points).


----------



## CPNY (Sep 27, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I just logged into Vistana and I saw this on my dashboard:
> 
> ———————
> 
> ...


This was always listed. The contract always showed the bonvoy point value even if the unit (in my case) is a mandatory resale that didn’t have the ability to convert to bonvoy points. The bonvoy amount was always more than the star option value.


----------



## dsmrp (Sep 27, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I just logged into Vistana and I saw this on my dashboard:
> 
> ———————
> 
> ...


Do you mean 286K number represents hotel Bonvoy points you'd get thru converting thru Abound ? Rather than converting from star options?  It used to say on your Vistana VOI details how many Bonvoy pts your week is worth via original Vistana conversion.


----------



## TravelTime (Sep 27, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Do you mean 286K number represents hotel Bonvoy points you'd get thru converting thru Abound ? Rather than converting from star options?  It used to say on your Vistana VOI details how many Bonvoy pts your week is worth via original Vistana conversion.



I did not realize it was Bonvoy points. I got confused. Thank you everyone for clarifying.


----------



## kozykritter (Sep 27, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Do you mean 286K number represents hotel Bonvoy points you'd get thru converting thru Abound ? Rather than converting from star options?  It used to say on your Vistana VOI details how many Bonvoy pts your week is worth via original Vistana conversion.


You can't convert to Bonvoy points through Abound. It has to be done with your original ownership in the Vistana system.


----------



## dsmrp (Sep 27, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> You can't convert to Bonvoy points through Abound. It has to be done with your original ownership in the Vistana system.


I wish Marriott would update the Bonvoy pts on Vistana VOIs. Ours is very low based perhaps on valuations around 2010. I feel comparable units purchased later got more points. That's just a feeling, based on a few anecdotal numbers. E.g. a lockoff at same resort 95.7K options gets almost double pts what my 81K options unit gets. But then that could be disproportionate difference between prime vs high season.


----------



## kozykritter (Sep 27, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> I wish Marriott would update the Bonvoy pts on Vistana VOIs. Ours is very low based perhaps on valuations around 2010. I feel comparable units purchased later got more points. That's just a feeling, based on a few anecdotal numbers. E.g. a lockoff at same resort 95.7K options gets almost double pts what my 81K options unit gets. But then that could be disproportionate difference between prime vs high season.


The Bonvoy point conversion is a fixed rate per StarOption. You multiply them by 1.56 to get the amount of Bonvoy points. I do believe there are some ownership where the rate is slightly different but I don't know enough about those to comment or give specific examples. What specific ownership do you have that is getting a different rate than that?


----------



## kozykritter (Sep 27, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> The Bonvoy point conversion is a fixed rate per StarOption. You multiply them by 1.56 to get the amount of Bonvoy points. I do believe there are some ownership where the rate is slightly different but I don't know enough about those to comment or give specific examples. What specific ownership do you have that is getting a different rate than that?


Actually, this is off topic for this tracker forum so perhaps a new threat on this topic would be a better idea.


----------



## daviator (Sep 27, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> The Bonvoy point conversion is a fixed rate per StarOption. You multiply them by 1.56 to get the amount of Bonvoy points. I do believe there are some ownership where the rate is slightly different but I don't know enough about those to comment or give specific examples. What specific ownership do you have that is getting a different rate than that?


That’s simply not true.  Each resort can have a different conversion to Bonvoy points (and maybe even different ownerships at the same resort can have different conversions.)

For example, I own a 2 BR LO at WKORV, and also at WDW.  They are both worth 148,100 SOs annually, but the WKORV week converts to more Bonvoy points than the WDW week does.  

Maybe the ratio you posted applies to Sheraton Flex (and maybe Westin Flex?).


----------



## maph (Oct 11, 2022)

Had my owner's update today at Kierland & have a couple data points to add.  WLR oceanside platinum+ 2 bedroom is 4950 (same as oceanview), WKORVN oceanfront 2 bedroom week 51 is 9500.


----------



## timsi (Oct 11, 2022)

maph said:


> Had my owner's update today at Kierland & have a couple data points to add.  WLR oceanside platinum+ 2 bedroom is 4950 (same as oceanview), WKORVN oceanfront 2 bedroom week 51 is 9500.


There is no good reason to assign the same number of points for oceanside and for oceanview at WLR.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 11, 2022)

timsi said:


> There is no good reason to assign the same number of points for oceanside and for oceanview at WLR.


I agree, they are really missing the mark here. But I wonder if they somehow aren't stuck with the alignment of StarOptions/HomeOptions and the Flex program (Westin Aventuras). Those ocean view and ocean side were allocated the same number of points when added to Aventuras, so to change them now for Abound may make things messy. Just thinking out loud really, but I suspect that is behind it and also why ocean view and resort view at the Hawaii properties has the same allocation.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 11, 2022)

maph said:


> Had my owner's update today at Kierland & have a couple data points to add.  WLR oceanside platinum+ 2 bedroom is 4950 (same as oceanview), WKORVN oceanfront 2 bedroom week 51 is 9500.


Thanks. I made the update.


----------



## timsi (Oct 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I agree, they are really missing the mark here. But I wonder if they somehow aren't stuck with the alignment of StarOptions/HomeOptions and the Flex program (Westin Aventuras). Those ocean view and ocean side were allocated the same number of points when added to Aventuras, so to change them now for Abound may make things messy. Just thinking out loud really, but I suspect that is behind it and also why ocean view and resort view at the Hawaii properties has the same allocation.


When added to Westin Flex, Westin Aventuras and Sheraton Flex, all the resorts were allocated the number of points based on the StarOptions/Homeoptions chart but they all got different  allocations in Abound so I do not think this is the reason. I suspect it has more to do with the number of units owned by the developer for each view type.


----------



## Burton504 (Oct 11, 2022)

Just got back from a sales presentation at Westin Lagunamar.  The pitch was, with my Prime Bela 2 bedroom, I would get 2,825 Club points.  If I bought a gold studio, for $16k (including all fees) with maintenance of $600, I would get 37,000 Vistana points or 1,234 Club points.  They said all Star Options could be divided by 30 to get Club points.  While that may work with what they were selling me, it does not work with my 81,000, as that is only 28.67?!?  Plus looking at the sheet, there are even more differences in Lagunamar alone!  The pitch was basically, "Buy now, as Club points will not be this cheap once the merge hits! The minimum sale will be 25k!"
Most disturbing was in the contract it says you can't sell it!  You can only Will it when you die or give it to your kids. That's kinda scary, isn't part of the definition of ownership is if you can sell it?


----------



## timsi (Oct 11, 2022)

Burton504 said:


> Just got back from a sales presentation at Westin Lagunamar.  The pitch was, with my Prime Bela 2 bedroom, I would get 2,825 Club points.  If I bought a gold studio, for $16k (including all fees) with maintenance of $600, I would get 37,000 Vistana points or 1,234 Club points.  They said all Star Options could be divided by 30 to get Club points.  While that may work with what they were selling me, it does not work with my 81,000, as that is only 28.67?!?  Plus looking at the sheet, there are even more differences in Lagunamar alone!  The pitch was basically, "Buy now, as Club points will not be this cheap once the merge hits! The minimum sale will be 25k!"
> Most disturbing was in the contract it says you can't sell it!  You can only Will it when you die or give it to your kids. That's kinda scary, isn't part of the definition of ownership is if you can sell it?


It is not that you can sell it, it is stripped of important features and that makes it less valuable. 


Marriott explains in its public disclosures:

"Owners generally can offer their vacation ownership interests for resale on the secondary market, which can create pricing pressure on the sale of developer inventory. However, owners who purchase vacation ownership interests on the secondary market typically do not receive all of the benefits that owners who purchase products directly from us receive. When an owner purchases a vacation ownership interest directly from us or a resale on the secondary market, the owner receives certain entitlements that are tied to the underlying vacation ownership interest, such as the right to reserve a resort unit that underlies their vacation ownership interest in order to occupy that unit or exchange its use for use of a unit at another resort through an external exchange service provider, as well as benefits that are incidental to the purchase of the vacation ownership interest. *However, the purchaser on the secondary market may not be entitled to receive certain incidental benefits* such as full access to our internal exchange programs or the right to trade their usage rights for customer loyalty program points. Additionally, many of our vacation ownership interests provide us with a right of first refusal on secondary market sales. We monitor sales that occur in the secondary market and exercise our right of first refusal when it is advantageous for us to do so, whether due to pricing, desire for the particular inventory, or other factors."


----------



## Eric B (Nov 10, 2022)

Added values for WSJ VGV 1 BR (fixed weeks 14 & 15) = 3,425; WSJ VGV Studio (fixed week 51) = 2,400; WLR Studio Platinum + = 2,250 and Gold + = 1,525 based on print out provided at update today.


----------



## myworld (Nov 15, 2022)

I was looking at Conversion sheet and i feel like there must be some error in below The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort  1 1BR Premium Oceanview  Club points conversation.    Platinum Plus week 81,000 staroptions = 3250   and same room type Gold plus 44,000 = 2275 ???   Platinum plus week points conversation is less than gold plus week ??   

The Westin Lagunamar Ocean ResortVistanaCancunMexicoMexico1BR PremiumOceanviewPlatinum Plus81,0003,250

The Westin Lagunamar Ocean ResortVistanaCancunMexicoMexico1BR PremiumOceanviewGold Plus44,0002,275


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 15, 2022)

myworld said:


> I was looking at Conversion sheet and i feel like there must be some error in below The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort  1 1BR Premium Oceanview  Club points conversation.    Platinum Plus week 81,000 staroptions = 3250   and same room type Gold plus 44,000 = 2275 ???   Platinum plus week points conversation is less than gold plus week ??
> 
> The Westin Lagunamar Ocean ResortVistanaCancunMexicoMexico1BR PremiumOceanviewPlatinum Plus81,0003,250
> 
> The Westin Lagunamar Ocean ResortVistanaCancunMexicoMexico1BR PremiumOceanviewGold Plus44,0002,275


They aren't allocating the weeks values based on a conversion from StarOptions. They have some other method in how they calculate the point values for weeks.


----------



## tschwa2 (Nov 15, 2022)

Burton504 said:


> Just got back from a sales presentation at Westin Lagunamar.  The pitch was, with my Prime Bela 2 bedroom, I would get 2,825 Club points.  If I bought a gold studio, for $16k (including all fees) with maintenance of $600, I would get 37,000 Vistana points or 1,234 Club points.  They said all Star Options could be divided by 30 to get Club points.  While that may work with what they were selling me, it does not work with my 81,000, as that is only 28.67?!?  Plus looking at the sheet, there are even more differences in Lagunamar alone!  The pitch was basically, "Buy now, as Club points will not be this cheap once the merge hits! The minimum sale will be 25k!"
> Most disturbing was in the contract it says you can't sell it!  You can only Will it when you die or give it to your kids. That's kinda scary, isn't part of the definition of ownership is if you can sell it?


you can sell it but what you would be selling is the underlying deed or contract.  So if you are buying adventuras points, you would be selling adventuras points not something that has access to Abound.


----------



## myworld (Nov 15, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> They aren't allocating the weeks values based on a conversion from StarOptions. They have some other method in how they calculate the point values for weeks.



Got it. So Platimum plus and Gold plus does not matter in conversion. But still looks strange formula they are using to convert same type of unit with more and less points.  44,000/2275 = 19.34  and 81,000/3250 = 24.92 each club point conversion rate.      

I may be sound dumb as i am just learning TS since 6 months or so and planning to buy one in near future either MVC or Vistana. so just trying to learn new Abound program conversion both ways and which may be better for first time buy.   
Thank you


----------



## Eric B (Nov 15, 2022)

myworld said:


> Got it. So Platimum plus and Gold plus does not matter in conversion. But still looks strange formula they are using to convert same type of unit with more and less points.  44,000/2275 = 19.34  and 81,000/3250 = 24.92 each club point conversion rate.
> 
> I may be sound dumb as i am just learning TS since 6 months or so and planning to buy one in near future either MVC or Vistana. so just trying to learn new Abound program conversion both ways and which may be better for first time buy.
> Thank you



I own both Gold + and Platinum + studio weeks at Lagunamar. Before I got the conversion rates recently for those in an owners update, I followed the methodology from the DC point implementation threads and averaged the Abound point values over the year from the point charts they put out, allowing for a 7% skim. It came up pretty close to the values sales at Lagunamar provided recently, which I populated @dioxide45 ‘s spreadsheet — the skim turns out to be around 5% for Platinum + and 4% for Gold +. I don’t own any 1 or 2 BR weeks there, so can’t vouch for those numbers.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Nov 15, 2022)

myworld said:


> Got it. So Platimum plus and Gold plus does not matter in conversion. But still looks strange formula they are using to convert same type of unit with more and less points.  44,000/2275 = 19.34  and 81,000/3250 = 24.92 each club point conversion rate.
> 
> I may be sound dumb as i am just learning TS since 6 months or so and planning to buy one in near future either MVC or Vistana. so just trying to learn new Abound program conversion both ways and which may be better for first time buy.
> Thank you



It's simply that Abound has a different way of valuing inventory than Vistana had. Some like the LGR 1BR Gold seem to have levelled 'up' (makes me happy as I own own of those  ) but many others have been levelled 'down' especially compared to Maui. Consider the owners at Princeville on Kauai who paid the same Westin 'developer' prices as Maui and received the same 148,100 SO for a 2BR LO but in Abound they will only be getting 4200 points compared to 6200 points.


----------



## aeroflygirl (Nov 30, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Vistana_DC_ConversionRates
> 
> 
> Sheet1  Resort Code,Resort Name,Phase,Company Name,City,State,Country,Region,Unit Size,View,Home Season,VSN Season,StarOptions,Conversion,Elected Club Points SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis,Vistana,Scottsdale,AZ,USA,Domestic,2BR Lockoff,N/A,1-21, 50-52,Platinum Plus,148,000,2,375 SDO,Sheraton Desert Oasis
> ...


Lakeside Terrace 2BR Platinum Plus 129,800 StarOptions 3026 Club Points


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Nov 30, 2022)

Is anyone else is seeing in any difference in what they were told they would get v what the new system now live is showing? We were told WLR 1BR Gold Plus would get 2,275 but it's actually showing as 2,800 in our account. I'm not complaining though as that's probably one of the better conversions of just 44,000 SO


----------



## Erinaadyn (Nov 30, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> Is anyone else is seeing in any difference in what they were told they would get v what the new system now live is showing? We were told WLR 1BR Gold Plus would get 2,275 but it's actually showing as 2,800 in our account. I'm not complaining though as that's probably one of the better conversions of just 44,000 SO


I can’t figure out how to find this info. Where are you seeing this? Are you on cell phone or computer?


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Nov 30, 2022)

Erinaadyn said:


> I can’t figure out how to find this info. Where are you seeing this? Are you on cell phone or computer?


On a computer. I just followed what everyone has been saying on the Abound is Up thread, logged into the Vistana dashboard and went to the Elect for Club Points tab.


----------



## rcv82 (Nov 30, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> On a computer. I just followed what everyone has been saying on the Abound is Up thread, logged into the Vistana dashboard and went to the Elect for Club Points tab.



You can also see it under the “What I Own” tab. The elect tab keeps timing out on me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alexadeparis (Nov 30, 2022)

rcv82 said:


> You can also see it under the “What I Own” tab. The elect tab keeps timing out on me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same could see the points my units are worth under what i own but actually electing the points - or booking anything on Marriott - isn't working for me - although the Marriott site had my name and my status level listed accurately


----------



## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

For anyone who didn't previously have MVC and is accessing Abound via Vistana, have you been able to find a Marriott owner/member number anywhere?


----------



## Ulrichdl (Nov 30, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> For anyone who didn't previously have MVC and is accessing Abound via Vistana, have you been able to find a Marriott owner/member number anywhere?


I was just told through Chat that we can only access Abound site through Vistana site.  I was curious if we can create a login to MVC site and they said no.


----------



## zjhasan1976 (Nov 30, 2022)

Just wondering what exactly this means - In theory, I should have 2,825 points since I have a 81k Bella.  I wonder if it's because I am not an annual?


----------



## alexadeparis (Nov 30, 2022)

zjhasan1976 said:


> Just wondering what exactly this means - In theory, I should have 2,825 points since I have a 81k Bella.  I wonder if it's because I am not an annual?


it's because it's not annual - my 81k Bella Lockoff is 2575 - but only gets 1287 annualized points


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2022)

zjhasan1976 said:


> Just wondering what exactly this means - In theory, I should have 2,825 points since I have a 81k Bella.  I wonder if it's because I am not an annual?


What 81K Bella do you own? 2BR LO Gold, or 2BR dedicated Platinum?


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> it's because it's not annual - my 81k Bella Lockoff is 2575 - but only gets 1287 annualized points


Shouldn’t you get half of the annual for the OBL allocation? That is how our 1BR EOY Key West works. Worth 1400 in it’s use year, but worth 700 when allocating to the OBL.


----------



## gcole (Nov 30, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I think it is best to breakout Lakes/Cascades. Thanks. I think only these 2 phases are different.  Someone had said Fountains is similar and I don't know if it is true, but Fountains does not have 2Br lockoff.


I own lakes and cascades. Both lock-offs. Options are the same.


----------



## VacationForever (Nov 30, 2022)

gcole said:


> I own lakes and cascades. Both lock-offs. Options are the same.


Options are the same does not mean MVC assigns the same number of Abound points.  Also, Prime weeks at thse 2 phases appear to get 25 Abound points more than High weeks, i.e. 2850 vs. 2825.


----------



## pchung6 (Dec 1, 2022)

I just found out my SVV Bella 81k 2br converts into 2825 points, but SVV Key West 81k 2br only converts to 2725 points. It's so weird about the conversion ratio.


----------



## bigbillf (Dec 1, 2022)

My SVV St. Augustine 2BR Platinum 81K SO's (resale authorized by the developer) is in Abound for 2,725 (@29.725).  My other two VOI's (Westin Flex @ 28.836 & Sheraton Flex @ 34.235) were like dead on to what was in the tracker.  Thanks so much for putting this together for us.


----------



## Troyrissa (Dec 1, 2022)

Confirming that SVV Bella 81k converts to 2825. I had to contact Vistana but everything is straightened out. Also mine is EOY so I get the 2825 in the use year only.  Also Aventuras 37k converts to 1230 club points.


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

I am currently on a cruise, so just an FYI, any updates here or comments on the Google Sheet won’t get updated until I return to dry land. WiFi here on the Celebrity Beyond leaves much to be desired…


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

Now that 2023 MFs for Vistana and associated MVC CPs have been posted it would be great to see MF/CP values for various Vistana VOIs.
(MF only, not Club Fees)

I have:
WKORV OFD ($3785/8325CP) = $0.45/CP

WKV Plat+ 1Bd Premium ($1153/2600CP) = $0.44/CP

WPORV ($3392/4300CP) = $0.79/CP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vacationtime1 (Dec 1, 2022)

WKORV OFC ($2747/8325CP) = $0.33/CP

WKV Plat+ 2bd ($1879/4050CP) = $0.46/CP


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Dec 1, 2022)

WLR 1BR Gold+ ($1120/2800CP) = $0.40/CP

WKORN 2BR IV 2xEOY ($3085/6200CP) = $0.50/CP


----------



## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

I guess the point value to MF is what it is. It isn’t really like it helps me or anyone else in the long run since new resale purchase can’t be enrolled in Abound without forking over a bunch of developer dollars, which then negates the savings on lower MF/CP ratios


----------



## ConejoRed (Dec 1, 2022)

Have not received the final 2023 maintenance bill yet, but using the proposed number for 2023 is an eye-opening...

2 BR WSJ VGV Townhouse Fixed Week 20 ($3407(est)/3525CP) = $0.967/CP  (148,100 Star Options).

I really think Marriott messed up on how they assigned CP for certain platinum WSJ Fixed weeks so they will not be getting many of those deposited into Abound, but maybe they don't really want them for some reason.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I guess the point value to MF is what it is. It isn’t really like it helps me or anyone else in the long run since new resale purchase can’t be enrolled in Abound without forking over a bunch of developer dollars, which then negates the savings on lower MF/CP ratios



It is interesting to me.
It gives a inter-resort comparison to what the consensus CP value is pegged at, and how MVC values them for potential Abound usage.

It certainly is not aligned with MF/SO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

ConejoRed said:


> Have not received the final 2023 maintenance bill yet, but using the proposed number for 2023 is an eye-opening...
> 
> 2 BR WSJ VGV Townhouse Fixed Week 20 ($3407(est)/3525CP) = $0.967/CP (148,100 Star Options).
> 
> I really think Marriott messed up on how they assigned CP for certain platinum WSJ Fixed weeks so they will not be getting many of those deposited into Abound, but maybe they don't really want them for some reason.



That’s a crazy increase in MF.
And the BS USVI fee ($25/nt) and Property Tax (that they are trying to jack up for Timeshares).

Glad we dropped ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConejoRed (Dec 1, 2022)

I have a feeling we will be doing the same soon as well.  We were waiting to see what the Abound outcome was and if the access to the Marriott resorts would be worth the higher maintenance fee, but the ultimate ratio given is the worst I have seen so far.


----------



## CanadianLawyer (Dec 4, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I have started to create a conversion tracker to keep track of the amount of points allocaetd to each VOI. I know everything right now is still speculation or information gleaned from attending a sales presentation, but at some point I suspect we will get official numbers. For now we can start tracking based on what we have learned in the other threads and update later if necessary. I don't have time at the moment to go through the other threads to update this sheet, creating it is as far as I got. But if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, feel free. The lined Google Sheet is open to comments (opening for edit gets messy). If you find something to add right click on the cell and select "Comment" then indicate what should be in the cell. Mainly looking to verify the breakdown of the sheet is correct but also to populate columns J, M and N. For resorts that are weeks based, I would prefer to populate N and calculate M. For Flex based items, it will just be M that gets populated to indicate the conversion of points. Based on the comments I can update the data in the actual cells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here are the conversions for my two Nanea 2 BR resort view VOI:

1.
HOME OPTIONS 165,000
STAROPTIONS 165,000
CLUB POINTS 6,985

2.
HOME OPTIONS 148,100
STAROPTIONS 148,100
CLUB POINTS 6,265


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 4, 2022)

CanadianLawyer said:


> Here are the conversions for my two Nanea 2 BR resort view VOI:
> 
> 1.
> HOME OPTIONS 165,000
> ...



What are the Maintenance Fees for these VOIs?
Have they been entered in MF Database?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CanadianLawyer (Dec 5, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> What are the Maintenance Fees for these VOIs?
> Have they been entered in MF Database?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tried, but the database has prepopulated choices for number of SOs which don't match what I own, so I was unable to do so.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 5, 2022)

I was curious about the $MF per CP for Nanea.

e.g. 
WKORV OF Deluxe is $0.45 per CP
WKV P+ is $0.44 per CP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jeffm211 (Dec 5, 2022)

Troyrissa said:


> Confirming that SVV Bella 81k converts to 2825. I had to contact Vistana but everything is straightened out. Also mine is EOY so I get the 2825 in the use year only.  Also Aventuras 37k converts to 1230 club points.


Aventuras is less valuable than a weeks ownership at Lagunamar.  The lower the conversion ratio, the more valuable going from SO to CP. This Aventuras would be 30.08; my 2BR LO Gold + is 23.82.  Also, I'd be happy to report in on MFs but the Vistana site has been down and I can't get to the association page w/ all the MF breakdowns.


----------



## CanadianLawyer (Dec 6, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> I was curious about the $MF per CP for Nanea.
> 
> e.g.
> WKORV OF Deluxe is $0.45 per CP
> ...


165,000 SO = $3,032.82 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.4342/CP

148,100 SO = $2,722.18 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.423/CP

Breakdown of MF still not available on Vistana site. Been like that for a few days.


----------



## SteveS1 (Dec 6, 2022)

CanadianLawyer said:


> 165,000 SO = $3,032.82 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.4342/CP
> 
> 148,100 SO = $2,722.18 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.423/CP
> 
> Breakdown of MF still not available on Vistana site. Been like that for a few days.


Those are great ratios.

Sheraton flex not so great.
100000 SO = $1905 2023 MF = $.01905/SO or .6523/CP

To top it off I bought the flex ~6 yrs ago to  upgrade resale voluntary ownerships for SO, now we know buying mandatory resale would have been a better move.


----------



## Joshadelic (Dec 6, 2022)

I'm a little confused now that I actually have the ability to elect club points. This is what I'm seeing for the 2 weeks I own:

SVV Bella 2br L/O, Platinum, Week-09:
StarOptions Value: 95,700
Club Points Value: 3,100

SDO 1br, Platinum+, Week-50:
StarOptions Value: 67,100
Club Points Value: 1,325

How do they arrive at those Club Points numebers? I'm looking at their chart and for those weeks I should be getting 3,450 for SVV and 1,125 for SDO. Do they not use the values from the chart to determine how many CPs you get? If not, then what am I missing??? The SVV conversion rate is ~ 3.24% of my SOs, but my SDO is ~1.98%?


----------



## Eric B (Dec 6, 2022)

Joshadelic said:


> I'm a little confused now that I actually have the ability to elect club points. This is what I'm seeing for the 2 weeks I own:
> 
> SVV Bella 2br L/O, Platinum, Week-09:
> StarOptions Value: 95,700
> ...



The Club Points you get for electing a week you own are based on the average value of a week in the season you own less a percentage ~5-7%. It's understandable for those resorts with floating weeks, but my fixed week fixed unit ownerships at WSJ VGV are treated the same way. For a couple of them I wind up getting a bit more than the actual fixed weeks, similar to your experience with SDO. This matches what was posted about the week valuations in Marriott when the desitnation club started up.


----------



## DanCali (Dec 6, 2022)

Joshadelic said:


> I'm a little confused now that I actually have the ability to elect club points. This is what I'm seeing for the 2 weeks I own:
> 
> SVV Bella 2br L/O, Platinum, Week-09:
> StarOptions Value: 95,700
> ...




The CP number is unrelated to SO. the Vistana 148,100 weeks were treated very differently.

The charts have different values for different weeks of the year. So the 3450 you are seeing is also 2175 in some weeks and 4000 in others.

You are getting the average value of the weeks that are in your deeded season (less ~7% which is known as "skim")


----------



## Eric B (Dec 6, 2022)

DanCali said:


> You are getting the average value of the weeks that are in your deeded season (less ~7% which is known as "skim")


I did the math on platinum plus and gold plus studios at Lagunamar and the skim came out as 5.01% and 4.04% respectively. Haven't figured it for any of the others.


----------



## CanadianLawyer (Dec 6, 2022)

CanadianLawyer said:


> 165,000 SO = $3,032.82 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.4342/CP
> 
> 148,100 SO = $2,722.18 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.423/CP
> 
> Breakdown of MF still not available on Vistana site. Been like that for a few days.





SteveS1 said:


> Those are great ratios.
> 
> Sheraton flex not so great.
> 100000 SO = $1905 2023 MF = $.01905/SO or .6523/CP
> ...


I think it was expected that the Maui properties would get better CP ratios than many others, but the flip side of that is that the CPs required to book the Maui properties are very high. As far as I can see, best value is still using Home Options for Maui resorts in high demand weeks and SOs if you want to use other resorts in lower demand weeks where it's possible to access inventory at 8 months. If you own in the Vistana Maui resorts, there is no reason to convert to CPs unless you want to go elsewhere in the Abound system and are willing to live with some fairly severe points devaluation.


----------



## Joshadelic (Dec 7, 2022)

CanadianLawyer said:


> I think it was expected that the Maui properties would get better CP ratios than many others, but the flip side of that is that the CPs required to book the Maui properties are very high. As far as I can see, best value is still using Home Options for Maui resorts in high demand weeks and SOs if you want to use other resorts in lower demand weeks where it's possible to access inventory at 8 months. If you own in the Vistana Maui resorts, there is no reason to convert to CPs unless you want to go elsewhere in the Abound system and are willing to live with some fairly severe points devaluation.





CanadianLawyer said:


> 165,000 SO = $3,032.82 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.4342/CP
> 
> 148,100 SO = $2,722.18 2023 MF = $0.01838/SO or $0.423/CP
> 
> Breakdown of MF still not available on Vistana site. Been like that for a few days.


For reference, here's my ratios:

SVV Bella 2br L/O Platinum:
95,700 SO = $1,852.28 2023 MF = $0.01936/SO or $0.5975/CP (not including the $270 Club Dues)

SDO 1br Platinum+:
67,100 SO = $789.44 2023 MF = $0.01177/SO or $0.5958/CP

It would obviously be stupid for me to elect Club Points unless I REALLY wanted to go to a particular property. I'm not seeing this Abound program as anything that benefits me. I'm happy they gave me Executive level with my measly 4,425 Club Points and Bonvoy Platinum status, but I get platinum with my Bonvoy AMEX now anyway. If I understood correctly, the $270 dues includes exchange fees for II, so I guess that's a good thing for people who exchange.


----------



## jjking42 (Dec 7, 2022)

Do I  have to give them everything I own that year. I cant figure out how to convert my WKV to club points but keep my SVV in star options

Never mind I figured it out you have to select the point total and then it gives you an option to select units


----------



## SteveS1 (Dec 7, 2022)

Joshadelic said:


> For reference, here's my ratios:
> 
> SVV Bella 2br L/O Platinum:
> 95,700 SO = $1,852.28 2023 MF = $0.01936/SO or $0.5975/CP (not including the $270 Club Dues)
> ...



It also depends on when since Abound is more granular in assigning point values. I stayed 5 days last week at Sheraton Kauai in a 1BR for 66,800 SO. With your SVV ratio that costs  $1293 for your SO. For the  same 5 nights there next year I could use 1450 CP in Abound which is $864 using your SVV ratio. My ratios (Sheraton Flex and Lakeside Terrace) are similar  to yours. Your SDO ratios are better it makes SO and CP about even..


----------



## Joshadelic (Dec 8, 2022)

jjking42 said:


> Do I  have to give them everything I own that year. I cant figure out how to convert my WKV to club points but keep my SVV in star options
> 
> Never mind I figured it out you have to select the point total and then it gives you an option to select units


When I went on the page where you elect, it gave me the option to elect either or both SVV and SDO, but it wouldn't let me split the SVV 2br L/O, so you should be able to elect by deed.


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Dec 16, 2022)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> Is anyone else is seeing in any difference in what they were told they would get v what the new system now live is showing? We were told WLR 1BR Gold Plus would get 2,275 but it's actually showing as 2,800 in our account. I'm not complaining though as that's probably one of the better conversions of just 44,000 SO


Should have kept my mouth shut or done my 2023 election more quickly. Received an email from them today saying there had been an 'error' with some of the Abound values shown online for Lagunamar and I should check to see the 'corrections'. Sadly it has now reverted back to the 2,275


----------



## EnglishmanAbroad (Dec 16, 2022)

Correction after Lagunamar re-jig of the numbers

WLR 1BR Gold+ ($1120/2275CP) = $0.49/CP


----------

