# A word of caution: Marriotts on ebay by CJ Timeshares



## Saintsfanfl (Apr 24, 2014)

Before the Marriott buyback and ROFR craze and even a while after, CJ Timeshares only had large minimum bids or reserves on their Marriott auctions. Sometime in the last 6 months or longer they no longer required these minimums. 

Around Christmas time I won a Marriott auction. Two weeks went by and they notified me that it failed ROFR. They wanted to help me get it passed and they had a special person that would help me price it so that it would pass. I said no thanks and instead would just take a refund. They said ok. 7-10 days went by and I was again contacted as a sales attempt to help me price another unit. I said I had already said no and had asked for a refund. They said ok, refund coming. I got the refund in the proper amount of time from the second request. I chalked it up to interdepartmental miscommunication around the Holiday.

A few weeks ago I won two Marriott ebay auctions. Apparantly regular buyers have caught on because these two units and many others have the top bids no where remotely close to the market. I received phone calls asking if I wanted to bid higher because the high bid has little chance. I said I will stick to my bid. I paid close attention to the electronic agreements and they were both missing the unit numbers. As some of you know you cannot submit a purchase agreement for ROFR unless it contains the specific ownership as well as the buyer and the seller. Marriott will only accept a complete and valid purchase agreement. The electronic agreement CJ was using for these Marriotts cannot be accepted by Marriott, so I was pretty sure at that point that they had no intention on submitting anything to Marriott. I expected them to wait a week or two and tell me they failed.

They left me a voice message explaining that because I didn't offer enough money Marriott was unfortunately able to take the unit. They have another of the same and would help me offer enough money. I said no thanks I would take a refund. 10 days later they notified me on the second unit with the same story. I said I would take a refund but I wanted to know where the refund was on the first unit that failed. They don't know because it's another department. Another week goes by and they try to sell me on some random unit. I inquire on the refunds, particulary the first and I mention that I will have to file a dispute on my cc. They said thanks notifying them and customer support would be contacting me.

It is clear to me that the auctions are fake and they are just using them to fish for buyers that they can convince to pay higher prices. I am wondering why they are stalling longer and longer on the refunds. 

These are quite possibly fraudulent actions. I warn anyone that is thinking of bidding on a Marriott by CJ. They have loads of them all the time and I am starting to wonder if there is possibly something ponzi going on with the refund delays, even if initially unintentional. I am not letting them stall any longer so I am filing cc disputes.


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## BocaBoy (Apr 24, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Before the Marriott buyback and ROFR craze and even a while after, CJ Timeshares only had large minimum bids or reserves on their Marriott auctions. Sometime in the last 6 months or longer they no longer required these minimums.
> 
> Around Christmas time I won a Marriott auction. Two weeks went by and they notified me that it failed ROFR. They wanted to help me get it passed and they had a special person that would help me price it so that it would pass. I said no thanks and instead would just take a refund. They said ok. 7-10 days went by and I was again contacted as a sales attempt to help me price another unit. I said I had already said no and had asked for a refund. They said ok, refund coming. I got the refund in the proper amount of time from the second request. I chalked it up to interdepartmental miscommunication around the Holiday.
> 
> ...



This is the type of concern that causes some buyers to prefer to buy direct from the developer (or currently from MVCI Resales).  I am not putting down resale purchases on the private market, but merely pointing out the comfort level you get by purchasing the other way.

Maybe you should contact MVCI and verify whether your contracts had in fact been submitted for ROFR.  Then you would have the smoking gun if they were not submitted.  I am sure MVCI would tell you because you are the purchaser seeking approval.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 24, 2014)

Are you still within the time frame to provide negative feedback on Ebay? Or do they string you along just long enough? In either case, you could still complain to EBay by contacting them directly. One auction like this might be a coincidence, but three?


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## MOXJO7282 (Apr 24, 2014)

Those are strong accusations against a broker who I think most believe to be reputable. Perhaps they just didn't reference the unit number in the documents you saw? I'm not sure how you can prove this but if it turns out to be true then this is reprehensible.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 24, 2014)

I am concerned for my recent purchase.  Darn it.  I won an auction for a Platinum Custom House, and I won it at the starting bid price.  I would bet it won't pass the ROFR.  It's really a bargain week, and I was so excited to buy from a reputable broker, but now you have me worried.  Oh, dear.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 24, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Those are strong accusations against a broker who I think most believe to be reputable. Perhaps they just didn't reference the unit number in the documents you saw? I'm not sure how you can prove this but if it turns out to be true then this is reprehensible.



How can I prove what? That there wasn't a valid Purchase Agreement or that they didn't submit for ROFR? I can prove the first because Marriott only accepts a PA that shows the units being purchased as well as signatures of the buyer and the seller. This was never provided.

Even Sumday who has an extremely expedited check-out process that they consider a PA follows up and mails a hard copy PA that must be signed and returned by mail. They do this because Marriott requires it. I have closed my own Marriott sale before so I know from experience. I cannot however prove that they did not create something that they then passed off to Marriott as a PA. But even if they did this it would not be valid because I never saw it so I couldn't have signed it. 

I have to call it like I see it. I never saw a valid Marriott PA and certainly didn't sign one and they are delaying my refunds. The rest is conjecture.


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## csxjohn (Apr 24, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am concerned for my recent purchase.  Darn it.  I won an auction for a Platinum Custom House, and I won it at the starting bid price.  I would bet it won't pass the ROFR.  It's really a bargain week, and I was so excited to buy from a reputable broker, but now you have me worried.  Oh, dear.



I purchased a unit from CJ yesterday, not a Marriott, and I did see positive feed back here so I wasn't worried.  I hope mine goes through without a hitch.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 24, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> I purchased a unit from CJ yesterday, not a Marriott, and I did see positive feed back here so I wasn't worried.  I hope mine goes through without a hitch.



I have a non-Marriott with them right now and I am not worried. My "word of warning" is specifically geared towards the Marriott auctions.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 24, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am concerned for my recent purchase.  Darn it.  I won an auction for a Platinum Custom House, and I won it at the starting bid price.  I would bet it won't pass the ROFR.  It's really a bargain week, and I was so excited to buy from a reputable broker, but now you have me worried.  Oh, dear.



I don't think Marriott is interested in Custom House ROFR. They don't seem to be able to add the inventory to the trust. So if someone is saying it was ROFRed, I would consider it suspect.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 24, 2014)

I have asked for pdf copies of the notice that ROFR has been exercised and sent it to developer to verify that it was genuine.  I always ask for the copy of the waived ROFR as well just to make sure that it wasn't doctored in any way and to have it for my own records.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 24, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> I have asked for pdf copies of the notice that ROFR has been exercised and sent it to developer to verify that it was genuine.  I always ask for the copy of the waived ROFR as well just to make sure that it wasn't doctored in any way and to have it for my own records.



I told myself I was going to do this. In my gut I didn't like it but later I just wanted a refund. Honestly I don't see how a Marriott exercise notification would be meaningful since there was never a valid PA to submit. 

I am curious if anyone has signed, written or electronic, a valid PA that shows unit, buyer, and seller since CJ started Marriott auctions with no minimums.


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## EducatedConsumer (Apr 24, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am concerned for my recent purchase.  Darn it.  I won an auction for a Platinum Custom House, and I won it at the starting bid price.  I would bet it won't pass the ROFR.  It's really a bargain week, and I was so excited to buy from a reputable broker, but now you have me worried.  Oh, dear.



Remember, Custom House is heading towards the end of its leasehold in 2057. i have no idea when it will occur, but at some point in time, Custom House weeks will have little value because of the expiring leasehold. I don't know if that will be in 2050, 2040, 2030, or 2015. I do know, that I would not consider credible any inferences by a salesperson that the leasehold may be extended or renegotiated.


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## SCSTWG (Apr 24, 2014)

I won't bore you with the details of my transaction with them on an OceanWatch Platinum Resale last year, but I was strung out for months before getting a refund, I constantly had to chase them to get answers that never added up and felt scammed in the end.  I too bought with them because of the generally positive reputation on TUG.


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## Wally3433 (Apr 25, 2014)

The refunds should happen within 24 hours.  Period.

At 48 hours, I'd be denying the charge with my cc company.  If CJ was reputable, the refund would happen immediately.  Inter departmental?  Come on - that's BS.  It's either ignorance or they are in on the scam - either way, I wouldn't put up with it.

I agree with the OP - wouldn't touch anything from that broker.


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## bazzap (Apr 25, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Remember, Custom House is heading towards the end of its leasehold in 2057. i have no idea when it will occur, but at some point in time, Custom House weeks will have little value because of the expiring leasehold. I don't know if that will be in 2050, 2040, 2030, or 2015. I do know, that I would not consider credible any inferences by a salesperson that the leasehold may be extended or renegotiated.


I am interested in your comments about expiring leasehold and weeks having little value.
I haven't studied all my different resort purchase paperwork for quite some time and I know there are differences between deeded and right to use resort weeks.
However, I understood that at the end of a resorts leasehold, there would be either a renewal of leasehold or a distribution of asset value amongst owners?


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## MALC9990 (Apr 25, 2014)

bazzap said:


> I am interested in your comments about expiring leasehold and weeks having little value.
> I haven't studied all my different resort purchase paperwork for quite some time and I know there are differences between deeded and right to use resort weeks.
> However, I understood that at the end of a resorts leasehold, there would be either a renewal of leasehold or a distribution of asset value amongst owners?



For Son Antem, at the end of the RTU period, the resort is to be sold and the proceeds after costs will be distributed among the then owners of the RTU weeks. At Phuket Beach Cllub the proceeds are to be donated to Charities.

So for Son Antem we could expect resale prices to dip (cannot see that they can go much lower) but as the end date nears the prospect of a return of value to owners might well drive resale prices up.

In both cases the Trustees are a respected International Bank.


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## bazzap (Apr 25, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> For Son Antem, at the end of the RTU period, the resort is to be sold and the proceeds after costs will be distributed among the then owners of the RTU weeks. At Phuket Beach Cllub the proceeds are to be donated to Charities.
> 
> So for Son Antem we could expect resale prices to dip (cannot see that they can go much lower) but as the end date nears the prospect of a return of value to owners might well drive resale prices up.
> 
> In both cases the Trustees are a respected International Bank.


Thanks for the confirmation Malcolm.
I guess it is a little academic for me as I would have had my telegram from the Queen by then if I were still to be around.
It is good to know though that our children could be in line for some returns and that we could also be giving to good causes with PBC.


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## MALC9990 (Apr 25, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Remember, Custom House is heading towards the end of its leasehold in 2057. i have no idea when it will occur, but at some point in time, Custom House weeks will have little value because of the expiring leasehold. I don't know if that will be in 2050, 2040, 2030, or 2015. I do know, that I would not consider credible any inferences by a salesperson that the leasehold may be extended or renegotiated.



There is of course a difference between a resort such as Son Antem and Custom House. Whilst both are RTU the ownership is different. The Custom House property appears to be leased so at the end of the lease the RTU just ends and the property remains in the ownership of the Lessee. With Son Antem the property is owned and held in Trust and as such the deeds clearly state that at the end of the RTU period, the property is to be sold and proceeds distributed.

In the case of Custom House the property could be re-leased and the costs passed onto the then owners, in the case of Son Antem - who knows what will happen.


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## bazzap (Apr 25, 2014)

MALC9990 said:


> There is of course a difference between a resort such as Son Antem and Custom House. Whilst both are RTU the ownership is different. The Custom House property appears to be leased so at the end of the lease the RTU just ends and the property remains in the ownership of the Lessee. With Son Antem the property is owned and held in Trust and as such the deeds clearly state that at the end of the RTU period, the property is to be sold and proceeds distributed.
> 
> In the case of Custom House the property could be re-leased and the costs passed onto the then owners, in the case of Son Antem - who knows what will happen.


Well, perhaps just time to be pragmatic and enjoy what we have for as long as we have it.


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## DCBoy (Apr 25, 2014)

I'm at the Custom House right now using a timeshare that I bought from CJ Timeshares for practically nothing. The sale was finalized relatively quickly and without any problems, maybe because Marriott has no interest in purchasing RTU properties. I really do hope that I have to deal with end of the lease problems in 2057 since I'm 62 years old now!
This is my first trip to the Custom House and my wife and I think it's a beautiful property in a great location.


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## bazzap (Apr 25, 2014)

DCBoy said:


> I'm at the Custom House right now using a timeshare that I bought from CJ Timeshares for practically nothing. The sale was finalized relatively quickly and without any problems, maybe because Marriott has no interest in purchasing RTU properties. I really do hope that I have to deal with end of the lease problems in 2057 since I'm 62 years old now!
> This is my first trip to the Custom House and my wife and I think it's a beautiful property in a great location.


I look forward to checking it out with you in what for both f us will be our 103rd year.


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## MALC9990 (Apr 25, 2014)

bazzap said:


> Well, perhaps just time to be pragmatic and enjoy what we have for as long as we have it.



That's my view too - enjoy it while we can - we are at Son Antem twice this year for a total of 5 weeks thanks to our ownership and a private exchange with another Marriott Owner. When the time comes we will sell or give it away.


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## presley (Apr 25, 2014)

That really sucks.  I was very lucky with CJ,but never bought Marriott from them.  I do remember reading a few months back that Rod left.  He was my contact in the past and he was good/honest.


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## GNS (Apr 25, 2014)

I was looking at Marriott's resale on eBay from CJ Timeshare.  Looking at the history of sale by CJ for that particular resort, I noticed that they'd multiple sale previously for the similar unit.  I can't confirm that they didn't have multiple similar unit for sale, but it almost looked like either the previous bidder won and the deal didn't go thru or they'd their own people bidding/winning the bid if they don't meet their expectation.  

You can check this listing and the completed listing from CJ previously for similar listing, but I'm pretty confident it's the same unit.  

eBay link


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 25, 2014)

They have pulled deceptive price tactics on the higher value timeshares long before the issues I describe. I have mentioned it in other threads. They used to have high reserves and I would be high bidder. The auction would end, they would immediately relist and have a huge bid and then end it early. They would say "sorry, somebody bought it for x, but we have another and will let it go for the same price". This happened to me a few times before I laid into them. They just ignored me. You would think that I would have learned my lesson back then.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 25, 2014)

DCBoy said:


> I'm at the Custom House right now using a timeshare that I bought from CJ Timeshares for practically nothing. The sale was finalized relatively quickly and without any problems, maybe because Marriott has no interest in purchasing RTU properties. I really do hope that I have to deal with end of the lease problems in 2057 since I'm 62 years old now!
> This is my first trip to the Custom House and my wife and I think it's a beautiful property in a great location.



We are almost 60, so I hope we also get to enjoy it to the end of the lease.  If not, the kids can enjoy it for us.  I put it in their names as well because I consider it valuable.  

Someday, maybe Marriott will let me grandfather my weeks into DC.  What I heard recently about DC is not terribly comforting.  The skim, is what I am talking about.  I knew someone would ask.


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## kelly4me (Apr 26, 2014)

GNS said:


> I was looking at Marriott's resale on eBay from CJ Timeshare.  Looking at the history of sale by CJ for that particular resort, I noticed that they'd multiple sale previously for the similar unit.  I can't confirm that they didn't have multiple similar unit for sale, but it almost looked like either the previous bidder won and the deal didn't go thru or they'd their own people bidding/winning the bid if they don't meet their expectation.
> 
> You can check this listing and the completed listing from CJ previously for similar listing, but I'm pretty confident it's the same unit.
> 
> eBay link



If you look at the multiple past listings, you can see via the "completed listings" feature in search that the unit did not sell - the price is red.  If the sale price is green, it did sell.  This unit has been listed three times this month - two previous that ended with no minimum bid met and the unit didn't sell, and the current listing.

Also, they use a "form" listing for the Marriott properties.  Every time they list a unit at a particular resort, they use the same canned listing, but change the details - season, etc.


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## kelly4me (Apr 26, 2014)

We are in the process of buying a unit from CJ and this thread makes me kind of nervous.  We were specifically looking for a unit at Lakeshore Reserve.  We had bid on a couple of their auctions and we were outbid at the last second.  I had contacted their rep and he was able to supply me with an estoppel letter on the unit.  In the end, we went directly to them (circumventing eBay) and they had a lock-off unit that we were looking for.  We made an offer and made the purchase through them.  Marriott waived ROFR and now we're waiting for the sale to close.

We worked with Jason Luria and he has been very nice and responsive.  My major concern was ensuring that the unit was actually a lock-off and that seemed to be more difficult than I expected it to be.  I double checked that with Marriott myself, just in case.

It was clear from my conversations with him that they do have a policy of trying to get buyers to up their bid to a level that ensured that the property would pass ROFR (even on eBay purchases).  I made it very clear that I was willing to roll the dice on that, and that I was willing to endure multiple buybacks if necessary to get a unit that I felt was a good value.  He seemed supportive.

....and now we wait. I'm still going to be on pins and needles until that unit is deposited into our existing account.  Does anyone know how long that typically takes after ROFR is waived and you have an existing Marriott account?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 26, 2014)

I think at Lakeshore Reserve, that regardless of the unit type you buy, you are buying the ability to lock off. There are 2BR Standard, 2BR Deluxe and 3BR units. All are lock off capable. Now of course, you may be deeded a 2BR townhouse, but from what Saintsfanfl mentioned in another thread, that gives you the ability to reserve and lock off the 2BR Deluxe that consists of two 1BR master units. The same would be true for a 3BR unit. There are only two types, 3BR townhouse and 3BR lockoff flat. If you own any 3BR, you can lock off even if you are deeded a townhouse.


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## kelly4me (Apr 26, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I think at Lakeshore Reserve, that regardless of the unit type you buy, you are buying the ability to lock off. There are 2BR Standard, 2BR Deluxe and 3BR units. All are lock off capable. Now of course, you may be deeded a 2BR townhouse, but from what Saintsfanfl mentioned in another thread, that gives you the ability to reserve and lock off the 2BR Deluxe that consists of two 1BR master units. The same would be true for a 3BR unit. There are only two types, 3BR townhouse and 3BR lockoff flat. If you own any 3BR, you can lock off even if you are deeded a townhouse.



Interesting.  I didn't realize that the lockoff/non-lockoff reservations worked in both directions.  The deeded unit is the lock-off type.  I guess it's different at Manor Club because all Sequel (MSE) units are lock-off and all original (MMC) units are not.  You can only reserve in your own section.

Having the lock-off at Manor Club has really boosted the value for our unit. We've been able to trade-up most of the time.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 26, 2014)

kelly4me said:


> Interesting.  I didn't realize that the lockoff/non-lockoff reservations worked in both directions.  The deeded unit is the lock-off type.  I guess it's different at Manor Club because all Sequel (MSE) units are lock-off and all original (MMC) units are not.  You can only reserve in your own section.
> 
> Having the lock-off at Manor Club has really boosted the value for our unit. We've been able to trade-up most of the time.



Yes, Manor Club is unique. Each resort is really a separate resort. If you own at MMC you can't reserve a week at MSE. I know of no other Marriott resort like that except perhaps Maui Ocean Club. Though both those resorts have lock offs.


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## Saintsfanfl (Apr 26, 2014)

If ROFR was waived on your Lakeshore unit I don't think you have anything to worry about. I have't seen them list Lakeshore with no minimum. 

My cases are extreme because I won a Gold Ocean Pointe for about $350 and a 3BR Gold Grande Vista for around $650. I stuck to my guns out of principal knowing that the winning bids were ridiculous. Even if they submitted something on these (I will wager that they didn't), and Marriott did exercise, it is still fraudulent (or unethical and bad faith). They are a broker and fully aware of Marriott's buyback prices. They would not be acting in the best interest of the seller. 

Dioxide is correct on the lock-off ability. PCC's generally know very little about what they are selling. They will state the details from the estoppel even if the estoppel is wrong or the deeded unit is irrelevant due to floating units.


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## mpctorres (Apr 26, 2014)

*I have a great experience with CJ.....*

...I purchased a 3BR Marriott Playa Andaluzza, Spain timeshare sometime early March 2014.  It is moving to conclude on closing very well..,, and they have great sense of urgency, very responsive and professional to work with.  I knew my purchased passed ROFR after 2 weeks.   I only have the best experience so far.....


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## kelly4me (May 15, 2014)

I wanted to resurrect this thread to say that my Lakeshore Reserve unit resale purchase through CJ only took about 36 days from initial offer to deposit into my Marriott account.  I figured that it was worth the follow-up since I had expressed some concern in this thread.

Kelly


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2014)

kelly4me said:


> I wanted to resurrect this thread to say that my Lakeshore Reserve unit resale purchase through CJ only took about 36 days from initial offer to deposit into my Marriott account.  I figured that it was worth the follow-up since I had expressed some concern in this thread.
> 
> Kelly



Congrats on the purchase! That is crazy fast for a Marriott. That county takes electronic recordings but the ROFR and post deed transfer usually takes longer than that.


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## kelly4me (May 15, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Congrats on the purchase! That is crazy fast for a Marriott. That county takes electronic recordings but the ROFR and post deed transfer usually takes longer than that.



Thanks! Honestly, ROFR was pretty quick, and SunAndFun83 mentioned calling owner modifications 2-3 weeks after the sale, which I did.  They ensured me that they had everything that they needed for the transaction, and the next day, there it was.  So, props to SunAndFun83 - we're close to our 13 month window, and I'm very thankful to have the transaction competed.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 29, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am concerned for my recent purchase.  Darn it.  I won an auction for a Platinum Custom House, and I won it at the starting bid price.  I would bet it won't pass the ROFR.  It's really a bargain week, and I was so excited to buy from a reputable broker, but now you have me worried.  Oh, dear.



My new purchase did go through and Marriott does recognize me as an owner of an annual Custom House week.  Now we own an EOY even and an annual.  Hope we get to go next summer and try it out.


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## csxjohn (May 29, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My new purchase did go through and Marriott does recognize me as an owner of an annual Custom House week.  Now we own an EOY even and an annual.  Hope we get to go next summer and try it out.



I'm so glad you were worried for nothing  I just closed on a unit from them at a different resort and have nothing but good things to say about them and their closing company.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211336


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## rickandcindy23 (May 29, 2014)

Timeshare Closing Services is fast.  That was only a month from payment to close/ transfer.  I have used them many times, and even Seth Nock uses them for his DVC sales.  I was surprised by that.  

Timeshare Closing Services is still working on another week for me.  They sent the deed for us to have notarized, and I noticed there were two weeks listed on that deed, and I let them know I would take both, if they were indeed offering both.  That was apparently a mistake and Judi said she would get back to me.  This was about two weeks ago.  Hawaii timeshares take forever to close, except when LT Transfers does the closing.  There is really no reason for it, unless the seller is dragging his heels.  Could be.  I cannot believe anyone would basically give away this particular timeshare.


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## BJRSanDiego (May 29, 2014)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...I noticed there were two weeks listed on that deed, and I let them know I would take both, if they were indeed offering both....  .



When I bought my first timeshare, at the Sands of Kahana, it was from Laman34 or 43Namal (pseudonyms for CJ).  In the ebay listing they put down double the regular maintenance fee for an EOY.  Both me and Laman34 were a bit surprised because it turned out that it was 2 weeks EOY.  They said that it was their mistake and that I could either back out or they would sell me both weeks for the same price.  They said that because both weeks were on the same deed that it would be very costly (IIRC, around $1K) to get it split up (SOK has a $650 re-deed/VC fee).  Although I didn't initially want a 2 week EOY, when I thought about it, it actually made a lot of sense - - when I go to Hawaii, I always want to stay a couple of weeks and never just one.

Good luck.  Maybe you'll be able to get both weeks.:whoopie:


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## rickandcindy23 (May 29, 2014)

> Good luck. Maybe you'll be able to get both weeks.



We already own 3 weeks, so that would be five.  :rofl:


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## Arb (Jul 7, 2014)

*Total monies due = Final Bid Price + $499 Closing Cost + $225 Resort Transfer*

CJ Timeshares is advertising a timeshare I may be interested in, but I noticed the closing and transfer costs.
To my knowledge the resort I'm looking at does not charge a transfer fee.
Is this normal -- to charge these fees whether they're actually due or not?


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## FlyerBobcat (Jul 7, 2014)

Arb said:


> CJ Timeshares is advertising a timeshare I may be interested in, but I noticed the closing and transfer costs.
> To my knowledge the resort I'm looking at does not charge a transfer fee.
> Is this normal -- to charge these fees whether they're actually due or not?



To my knowledge, Marriott charges $95 for ROFR waiver fee and $25 for transfer fee. 

If the location does not have an ROFR clause, you should not be paying that fee.  (Know what else the transfer costs might include by that seller, who knows  )

See: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159225


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 7, 2014)

Arb said:


> CJ Timeshares is advertising a timeshare I may be interested in, but I noticed the closing and transfer costs.
> To my knowledge the resort I'm looking at does not charge a transfer fee.
> Is this normal -- to charge these fees whether they're actually due or not?



Is this a Marriott? Sometimes sellers boilerplate and forget to change the amounts. Marriott does charge for transfers but I don't think any are $225. Like Flyer pointed out it is usually $95 + $25 but many sellers just put $120 transfer fee for a Marriott.


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## csxjohn (Jul 7, 2014)

Arb said:


> CJ Timeshares is advertising a timeshare I may be interested in, but I noticed the closing and transfer costs.
> To my knowledge the resort I'm looking at does not charge a transfer fee.
> Is this normal -- to charge these fees whether they're actually due or not?



Ask the seller directly through eBay and see what he says.  It may be a misprint.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 7, 2014)

I am watching a CJ auction right now on Ebay. It's for a Crane Barbados with apparently 2 bidders.

I was interested, but am slightly wary after reading this thread. I had only heard good things about CJ, but was not aware of some activity similar to RedWeeks4Less (posts #1 & 6).

I will remain on the sidelines.

Always good sharing of into on TUG.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 7, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I am watching a CJ auction right now on Ebay. It's for a Crane Barbados with apparently 2 bidders.
> 
> I was interested, but am slightly wary after reading this thread. I had only heard good things about CJ, but was not aware of some activity similar to RedWeeks4Less (posts #1 & 6).
> 
> ...



My beef with CJ has only related to the seemingly endless games played with the Marriott's I have tried to purchase. I received all of my refunds but they could have been more prompt. If the deal you are watching is straightforward I would not be concerned with setting a price and taking the plunge.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 7, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> My beef with CJ has only related to the seemingly endless games played with the Marriott's I have tried to purchase. I received all of my refunds but they could have been more prompt. If the deal you are watching is straightforward I would not be concerned with setting a price and taking the plunge.



  Here's what has raised my hackles................ put me off at once.

  It is advertised as "no reserve", however the reserve has not been met - ???. I posed the question on the listing, but cannot see it or a response.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-Lock-Of...71526983783?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3f3844f867


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## m61376 (Jul 7, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Here's what has raised my hackles................ put me off at once.
> 
> It is advertised as "no reserve", however the reserve has not been met - ???. I posed the question on the listing, but cannot see it or a response.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-Lock-Of...71526983783?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3f3844f867



Certainly understandable- but I think so many of these ads are cut and pastes, accounting for a lot of the errors.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 7, 2014)

m61376 said:


> Certainly understandable- but I think so many of these ads are cut and pastes, accounting for a lot of the errors.



  They are responsible for the content.


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## m61376 (Jul 7, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> They are responsible for the content.



Absolutely- not justifying their mistake. Just saying if it's something you really want, you may not want carelessness to be a deal breaker.


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## 022520 (Jul 15, 2014)

If its any comfort, I recently bought a HHI Marriott TS from CJ on Ebay and Timeshare Closing Services, INC handled the transfer.  The closing went fast and they actually sent a refund of $95 on the transfer fee.  I didn't check but this seems to support the notion that they use boilerplate on the listing for the fees.  The whole thing took about a month.

Larry


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 15, 2014)

bluejaylarry said:


> If its any comfort, I recently bought a HHI Marriott TS from CJ on Ebay and Timeshare Closing Services, INC handled the transfer.  The closing went fast and they actually sent a refund of $95 on the transfer fee.  I didn't check but this seems to support the notion that they use boilerplate on the listing for the fees.  The whole thing took about a month.
> 
> Larry



You must have bought at Monarch which does not have ROFR and therefore the transfer fee is only $25 instead of $25 + $95. Many sellers would probably keep it but since CJ / TCS use a detailed closing statement the net bottom line on the closing statement will show a refund due to the buyer and they will cut the check.


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## 022520 (Jul 16, 2014)

Actually bought at Heritage for $1, floating in late winter-early spring.  Main fees are high but Heritage gives away golf with each week so the main fees are understandable.

Don't know if Heritage has a ROFR exclusion or not.  Was just commenting that CJ and the escrow co were fine, no tricks and no hidden agendas.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jul 16, 2014)

bluejaylarry said:


> Actually bought at Heritage for $1, floating in late winter-early spring.  Main fees are high but Heritage gives away golf with each week so the main fees are understandable.
> 
> Don't know if Heritage has a ROFR exclusion or not.  Was just commenting that CJ and the escrow co were fine, no tricks and no hidden agendas.



Like every PCC mass timeshare seller they control the escrow company but CJ does allow it to operate as a real escrow and it feels as independent as it can get without truly being so, which is pretty good.


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## Robert D (Jul 16, 2014)

If Marriott exercises their ROFR, the seller should be able to email you a copy of the letter from Marriott stating that they are exercising and specifying the unit and week number and exercise price.  I had a shady Ebay reseller one time tell me that Marriott had exercised and I demanded that they send me a copy of the letter from Marriott, which they did.  I noticed on the letter that the price the seller put on the letter was about $2,000 more than what my winning bid was.  When I asked them about it they said that the price included their commission.  I called Marriott and reported all of this to them but I don't think Marriott did anything about it.  I don't remember the name of the reseller but know it wasn't CJ.  I think a lot of resellers are doing this sort of thing to fish a higher price out of Marriott.

CJ used to have a really good reputation but it seems like their stock has declined substantially over the past year.


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