# Steamboat Springs Room Downgrade



## John_and_Val (Feb 10, 2016)

Anyone happen to be at Steamboat Springs????? 

I managed (after hours of relentless "hunting") to get a 2 bedroom Presidential for 1/2 the points of a 1 bedroom, for 11 nights. It is next week.

Well yesterday a got a phone call from the manager at Steamboat saying they will not be able to accommodate my reservation because of "water damage". They said they will give me a 2 bedroom deluxe......

Sucks....

Any suggestions.....for some reason I just don't believe this guy.
How should I play this?


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## spackler (Feb 10, 2016)

Tell him this exact scenario has happened before, and the previous manager even sent pictures to show the extent of the damage.

Then kindly ask for some pictures for comparison.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

John_and_Val said:


> How should I play this?


Perhaps be grateful you are getting a 2 bedroom of any kind for half the points of a 1 bedroom during the height of ski season at one of the best ski resorts anywhere, maybe?  The units at Wyndham Steamboat Springs are very nice.

eta:  Since you will be there for 11 days, you could ask to transfer to the Presidential unit when the "water damage" repairs are completed.


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## John_and_Val (Feb 10, 2016)

I know it is a great place.....I have been there before. In regards to the points, well I put the time and effort to get it at that discounted rate. 

Just don't see a water damaged room taking this long to fix.....


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

Looking at the unit information for Steamboat Springs, the 2 BR Presidential units have 200-300 more square footage, but that is about the only difference.

Maybe the appliances in the Presidential are a bit more upscale.  It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.


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## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2016)

Tell the MGR, "Gee, thanks for telling me. I sure don't want to go into a damaged unit, but since we already have it booked (Here's the confirmation), and we'll be onsite, we'll be able to move into it as soon as it's repaired, Right???"

Shame him into letting you have what you booked. 

Jim


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## am1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Do not expect much from Wyndham.  Ask them if they have a model and if so that you would be okay in that unit, after they make it liveable.  That is what a company should do if they want people to spend of 10's of thousands of dollars on a timeshare.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> Shame him into letting you have what you booked.



You would have a point if the unit had been reserved at full price.  This 2 BR Presidential was not booked at full price, or even half price; it was booked _at half price of a regular 1 BR unit._  If they had been offered a 1 BR Deluxe or even just a 1 BR unit, they would have been ahead.

I mean, really, let's be reasonable about this.


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## am1 (Feb 10, 2016)

CO skier said:


> You would have a point if the unit had been reserved at full price.  This 2 BR Presidential was not booked at full price, or even half price; it was booked _at half price of a regular 1 BR unit._  If they had been offered a 1 BR Deluxe or even just a 1 BR unit, they would have been ahead.
> 
> I mean, really, let's be reasonable about this.



That unit was booked by spending a lot of money buying the timeshare.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

Just so anyone reading this who is not familiar with Wyndham, here are some of the point values for a full week stay during Prime ski season at Wyndham Steamboat Springs to put this whole discussion in perspective:

1 bedroom - 180,400

1 br Deluxe - 189,000

2 bedroom - 229,600

2 br Deluxe - 231,000

2 br Presidential - 300,000


So, for a full week, the OP is spending 90,200 points to stay in a unit worth 231,000 points instead of a unit worth 300,000 points.  But the OP is staying 4 days beyond a week, so the differential -- 90K vs. 231K -- is even greater.

I wish I had such beneficial outcomes to complain about.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

am1 said:


> That unit was booked by spending a lot of money buying the timeshare.



Yes, and I am sure that soon we will hear from those who think because they are driving a Ferrari, speed limits should not apply to them.


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## Passepartout (Feb 10, 2016)

CO skier said:


> Yes, and I am sure that soon we will hear from those who think because they are driving a Ferrari, speed limits should not apply to them.



Ferrari, Schmerrari. For decades I drove $200,000 Peterbilts and Freightliners, with $millions in cargo inside them and paid as much as a quarter a mile in taxes. Speed limits, what speed limits? (Just kidding  )


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## scootr5 (Feb 10, 2016)

CO skier said:


> Yes, and I am sure that soon we will hear from those who think because they are driving a Ferrari, speed limits should not apply to them.



Are you actually arguing that he should be happy to take any unit offered rather than what he is confirmed into because he obtained a specific type unit for a discounted point amount by using a method advocated by several sales people that work for Wyndham, and that Wyndham's reservations system allowed to be booked? I would also note that this is not some type of isolated "mistake" booking, but rather a long standing and well known method.

The speed limit is a rather poor analogy, as he did not break any published Wyndham rules, unlike breaking a posted speed limit.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

scootr5 said:


> Are you actually arguing that he should be happy to take any unit offered rather than what he is confirmed into because he obtained a specific type unit for a discounted point amount by using a method advocated by several sales people that work for Wyndham, and that Wyndham's reservations system allowed to be booked? I would also note that this is not some type of isolated "mistake" booking, but rather a long standing and well known method.
> 
> The speed limit is a rather poor analogy, as he did not break any published Wyndham rules, unlike breaking a posted speed limit.



I cannot speak for Passepartout, but what you write is exactly my point.  The OP should have no reason to complain if what they are offered as a replacement for a "water damaged" room is equal to or greater than what they paid.  This does not happen just in timeshares.

I booked an upgrade on a cross country flight out of Philadelphia using points.  The day of departure, I was bumped back to economy and the points refunded -- no explanation, not even water damage seats in first class.  I could see that first class was full, so maybe someone showed up willing to pay full price for first class, or maybe there was some legitimate reason to bump me.

I did not dwell on it, because there was that one time that I volunteered to stay overnight from an overbooked flight, and in addition to the generous flight coupons, both my flights the next day had me upgraded to first class, and it just happened to be my birthday, too (not sure which got me the upgrades -- did not ask, did not complain).  Then there was another cross country flight (in first class) where the steward recognized my appreciation for fine wines.  As I departed the flight in San Francisco, he offered me a bottle of the chardonnay I had enjoy while flying across the country to take home.

So, I focus on the positive moments and ignore the negative.  This works well for moving through the rest of my life, too.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

scootr5 said:


> The speed limit is a rather poor analogy, as he did not break any published Wyndham rules, unlike breaking a posted speed limit.



Please, what the OP did is a well know loophole that technically "evades" the published rules.

It should be noted at this point that in Club Wyndham's sister company, WorldMark, a loophole that had been promoted by the sales force for more than a decade, and was well known, was closed on January 1.

Loopholes work until they don't.


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## davidvel (Feb 10, 2016)

John_and_Val said:


> [...]
> Well yesterday a got a phone call from the manager at Steamboat saying they will not be able to accommodate my reservation because of "water damage". They said they will give me a 2 bedroom deluxe......
> 
> Sucks....
> ...


Since you think its fishy, be sure to ask to see the Presidential Suite that is damaged and the repairs they are doing when you get there. (Does anyone know how many of this room type there are there?)

A confirmed reservation at any price or points should get you what you booked. Not sure why people are against this basic principle.


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## CO skier (Feb 10, 2016)

davidvel said:


> A confirmed reservation at any price or points should get you what you booked. Not sure why people are against this basic principle.



Speaking only for myself, it is because it was not booked at anywhere near full price.

You know, it really could be a water damaged room.

I will be in Steamboat Springs this Saturday on the WorldMark side and will inquire to the extent possible.


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## davidvel (Feb 11, 2016)

CO skier said:


> Speaking only for myself, it is because it was not booked at anywhere near full price.
> 
> You know, it really could be a water damaged room.
> 
> I will be in Steamboat Springs this Saturday on the WorldMark side and will inquire to the extent possible.


So if you get a greatly discounted (not error) airfare in First Class that is confirmed and you pay for it you should get coach? If you pay for (at a great rate) a 4WD rental in a ski town they should be able to give you a Ford focus? If you get a 2 for 1 coupon to Ruth Chris they can serve you a burger instead of a steak?

Sorry, I just don't get it. 

Yes if the room is simply unavailable because its damaged (not that they sold it to someone else for more revenue), I get it. Even then the customer should get some compensation for the difference in value of room (not price paid).


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## CO skier (Feb 11, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Sorry, I just don't get it.



Yes, you just don't get it.   But it is Wyndham, and it involves a loophole,  and it is complicated.  It is not your fault for not getting it.


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## sandkastle4966 (Feb 11, 2016)

Soooo.......I was actually at steamboat when there was a water break and a room got flooded.   It was literally raining in the room.  It was an all out effort just to stop the water.   How much damage?  No idea, but I am pretty sure all the carpet needed to be replaced.

I would ask the suite number and the progress on the repairs and if you can move when its done.

(I would also visit the suite to confirm it was empty.  If not, I would ask for an explanation from management.)


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## JuntaParty (Feb 11, 2016)

This is a little off topic (and feel free to direct me to where this information exists), but we're new to some of the Wyndham process.  This 'well known loophole' you speak of - can you elaborate on what that is/looks like?


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## Cheryl20772 (Feb 11, 2016)

JuntaParty said:


> This is a little off topic (and feel free to direct me to where this information exists), but we're new to some of the Wyndham process.  This 'well known loophole' you speak of - can you elaborate on what that is/looks like?


I believe they are referring to the free unit upgrade given to VIP owners These owners have paid 10's to 100's of dollars for this perk. The operating word is "available unit". At high demand times, there's no free upgrade because no available unit. The loophole is to reserve 2 units - a studio plus the desired larger unit. Then, in the upgrade window, cancel the larger unit and quick grab it back as an available upgrade for the studio. Problem is this is a gamble. Occasionally the larger unit won't reappear in the available inventory.  Some Wyndham sales reps teach this technique in their presentations. So Wyndham knows about it- 'cancel rebook'.

I would be pretty sad too if l had managed to work the system for that presidential deal only to have it fall through. But I think the OP was given a fair enough alternative.


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## scootr5 (Feb 11, 2016)

CO skier said:


> Please, what the OP did is a well know loophole that technically "evades" the published rules.
> 
> It should be noted at this point that in Club Wyndham's sister company, WorldMark, a loophole that had been promoted by the sales force for more than a decade, and was well known, was closed on January 1.
> 
> Loopholes work until they don't.



Maybe I missed it, but I also never saw it mentioned that the OP used the particular "loophole" either.



CO skier said:


> Speaking only for myself, it is because it was not booked at anywhere near full price.




Do you ever buy a product on sale, only to be told after you left the store that they won't actually honor the sale price? Do you just say "OK" and give them more money?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 11, 2016)

davidvel said:


> Even then the customer should get some compensation for the difference in value of room (not price paid).



To me it would be like a situation where a platinum flyer gets an upgrade to First class two  days prior to the flight.  For various reason on the day of flight, one first class seat isn't available.  

It just so happens that everyone else paid full fair for their first class seats.  The platinum member who is bumped back down is never going to get the cash difference between his seat and first class.  He will get points-maybe enough to upgrade him to first without having to wait until the two day window, an exit row seat and a free alcoholic beverage if available on that flight.

If I were the OP I would ask for points compensation at least the difference between the 2 bedroom deluxe and the two bedroom presidential for the affected nights.


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## John_and_Val (Feb 11, 2016)

CO Skier - didn't mean to upset you on this conversation, but I might as well tell you how I acquired Platinum Membership. 

I bought 500K and my father bought 500K - two separate accounts......had his name on my deed and then had both accounts merged for Platinum Status 
Still paid a lot of $$$ but I enjoy the little perks and 50% discounts. My wife and I ALWAYS book within 60 days and Always play the cancel rebook game. 

If we get it we go - if not we stay. Just happens that Steamboat was a special occasion and was excited about the Pres. Suite.

These "loop holes" exist and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with taking advantage of it. 

All I wanted to know is if there actually was a water damaged section of building 5 (mountain view). Sounds like you are going to be a sport and check it out for me. 

Thanks


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## jebloomquist (Feb 11, 2016)

This bait and switch might be common at Steamboat Springs. This past summer I had a 3 bedroom unit reserved. My reservation was fine, but as I was checking in a woman who had a 2 bedroom reservation was told that it was not available. Instead she was offered a 1 bedroom unit for herself and her two other adult friends. 

Even though my relatives, that I had expected to meet me in Steamboat, chose not to arrive, leaving the 3 bedroom to just my wife and me, I was not about to offer it to this unfortunate woman and her friends. My wife would never have forgiven me. She always wants at least a 2 bedroom unit.

When it comes to Steamboat Springs, the resort is nothing special, but I do love the town. I began skiing there in the 1980s. Although the town has changed somewhat, it still has a wonderful small town feel to it.

Jim

Jim


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## Lerose (Feb 11, 2016)

*Presidential Unit*



CO skier said:


> Looking at the unit information for Steamboat Springs, the 2 BR Presidential units have 200-300 more square footage, but that is about the only difference.
> 
> Maybe the appliances in the Presidential are a bit more upscale.  It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.



Last Thanksgiving, my group stayed in a 2BR presidential building 5 and a 3 BR Dx building 4. The 2 BR presidential unit was on 2 floors. The top floor had 2 bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms and a jacuzzi. Bottom floor had a full size washer/dryer, a bathroom (for a total of 3 bathrooms), living room with fireplace and sleeper sofa, kitchen, and hot tub on the balcony. The appliances and flooring throughout the unit were upgraded. Our group hung out more in the 2 BR presidential unit because it was way nicer than the 3 BR DX. 

Lerose


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## jhoug (Feb 12, 2016)

*Had a downgrade at Grand Desert once*

We had reserved a 1 BR Deluxe for our anniversary at full credits. 
When we arrived they said they only had a regular 1 BR. 
We complained we had that unit reserved for months. 
They still could not change us. 
They did send us a fruit basket as an apology and refunded the points difference, but they weren't about to until we complained about it.


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## CO skier (Feb 13, 2016)

John_and_Val said:


> CO Skier - didn't mean to upset you on this conversation,



It's not you, it's me.  I browse other timeshare forums on TUG, and none of them, seemingly, have the same conspiracy posts that Wyndham draws.  Then there is the entitlement we, as a society expect ... don't get me started on that.

I own both Club Wyndham and WorldMark, and except for the one time that I paid both a Reservation Transaction and Guest Fee so my MIL could join us on a vacation, and Wyndham somehow lost the reservation (it worked out OK in the end with a room upgrade), I have always enjoyed my Wyndham vacations.  So, I am probably overly sensitive to the all-too-common-anti-Wyndham posts.  Sorry for that.

By an amazing coincidence, when I walked up to check in tonight, a youngish couple walked up to the other check-in associate to discuss their displeasure with the 3 Bedroom Deluxe that they had been given as a replacement for the 2 Bedroom Presidential that "had a hole in ..." (I was eavesdropping on their conversation while trying to listen, without appearing to eavesdrop, and answer the questions for my check-in, so I could not get all of the other couple's discussion.) 

After checking-in, I asked the associate about the water damaged Wyndham Presidential unit.  She informed me that "some Presidential units (plural) had sustained water damage due to all the snow and ice".  She did not know when they would be repaired, because she does not communicate with maintenance.

This resort is fully booked for the Presidential Holiday Ski weekend.  That other couple was lucky to get any unit.  Their main concern was that they would still receive a refund of the difference in points from the Presidential unit downgrade to the 3 bedroom deluxe.  It left me with the impression they had paid full points for the Presidential unit.  While disappointed that they were not in the Presidential unit, they did seem somewhat grateful their ski vacation was not ruined.

In more than 10 years skiing at Steamboat Springs, I have never seen so much snow and ice in town or at the WorldMark resort.  There are icicles that have grown together to form a wall of ice from the upper roof to the lower roof on the main building.  I do not doubt the story about the water damage, and you will see the same thing when you arrive next week.  (Another potential 12 inches of snow is expected by Monday morning.

Maintenance may have to wait until the snow melts off of the roof to complete (or even begin repairs) if the hole the other couple mentioned was in the ceiling and extended to the roof.  I feel sorry for the resort manager who is having to deal with all this, and I feel sorry for the affected Wyndham owners, too.


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## x3 skier (Feb 14, 2016)

CO skier said:


> In more than 10 years skiing at Steamboat Springs, I have never seen so much snow and ice in town or at the WorldMark resort.  There are icicles that have grown together to form a wall of ice from the upper roof to the lower roof on the main building.  I do not doubt the story about the water damage, and you will see the same thing when you arrive next week.  (Another potential 12 inches of snow is expected by Monday morning.



As the saying goes, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I second the heavy snow this season. When I arrived in Jan this year for the ski season as I have for the past 18 years, the snow on the ground and rooftops was deeper than I had ever seen. One of the resorts where I own has had to move more snow of the roof than in any other season since it was built. 

Great for skiing but it can be a real headache for maintenance. 

Cheers


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## CO skier (Feb 16, 2016)

Here are a few photos to show the situation at Wyndham Steamboat Springs.

The front building in this picture is Building 1, which is the Diamond Resorts International building.  The smaller building beyond that with the white SUV in front is the main building check-in.  The larger building behind it is building 6, and barely visible in the far back is the northwest section of building 5.

I rode the elevator with a maintenance person and made a leading statement, "I heard one of the Wyndham units was flooded."  His mind was clearly on wherever he was headed, so there was a pause before the reply, "Oh ... yea ... building 6.  We traced it to a housekeeper's closet.  The whole ceiling came down."

I had overheard the other couple mention they were in unit 6202, which is a second floor 3 bedroom deluxe in building 6.

Building 6 is a WorldMark building.  Building 5 is a Wyndham building.  The conclusion I reach from the few snippets of conversations is that there is a 2 bedroom Presidential in building 6 water damaged from a leak not directly related to the weather, and one or more 2 bedroom Presidentials in building 5 with storm related water damage.  The one thing that is certain is that there is at least one damaged 2 bedroom presidential at Wyndham/WorldMark Steamboat Springs.

There are two WorldMark Steamboat 2 bedroom Presidential units.  Both are available to reserve beginning as early as February 22nd.  I would think it would take the better part of a month to repair the described damage to the unit in building 6.  It seems odd that one of the two units has not been blocked out of inventory to avoid further reservation difficulties.


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## CO skier (Feb 16, 2016)

This photo is of some of the Super-Cicles decorating the buildings at the resort.  Many of the icicles are more than 1 story tall.  I have never seen anything like it.


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## CO skier (Feb 16, 2016)

This is one of the 2 bedroom Presidential units at Steamboat.

(Just kidding.)


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## Magic1962 (Feb 16, 2016)

CO skier said:


> This is one of the 2 bedroom Presidential units at Steamboat.
> 
> (Just kidding.)



That was Hilarious!!!:rofl: man I am glad I am in Northeran Ohio.... Only used the snowblower once so far this year!! Dave


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## John_and_Val (Feb 16, 2016)

CO-Skier - Thanks for the information and pics. They have there work cut out for them!!!

According to a Supervisor at Customer relations, Steamboat dropped the ball on notifying reservations to adjust the inventory. As of last Friday - they had no idea that there was any damage and rooms were being downgraded. She put me on hold and called them to inquire....

At least I got a room!!!

Again Thanks


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## John_and_Val (Feb 22, 2016)

Well, we are here......in the 2 bedroom Pres. Suite that we originally reserved! Surprisingly there is no construction from what I can see and the room shows no signs of remodel. So, they did a great job. What a room....as someone else described, 2 bedrooms upstairs with separate bathrooms, full kitchen, full bath downstairs, great living room area and the best part..........6 person Hot tub on the balcony!!!!!

We are gonna have a blast for 12 nights!!!!!!


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## x3 skier (Feb 22, 2016)

John_and_Val said:


> Well, we are here......in the 2 bedroom Pres. Suite that we originally reserved! Surprisingly there is no construction from what I can see and the room shows no signs of remodel. So, they did a great job. What a room....as someone else described, 2 bedrooms upstairs with separate bathrooms, full kitchen, full bath downstairs, great living room area and the best part..........6 person Hot tub on the balcony!!!!!
> 
> We are gonna have a blast for 12 nights!!!!!!



Pray for snow!  We need it, believe it or not. I was up yesterday and it's more Springlike than Feb. 

Sill a healthy base but we could use some fresh on top

Cheers


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## John_and_Val (Feb 24, 2016)

Spring like conditions here. Today, not a cloud in the sky and upper 30's on the mountain. They are still doing a great job grooming but definitely need a dusting!!!!!
Woke up this morning to a hot air balloon outside our window........what a beautiful place!!!!


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## CO skier (Feb 25, 2016)

All's well that ends well.

Did you ever get the whole story on the damage and repairs?


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## John_and_Val (Feb 25, 2016)

Going to go get my 100 bucks.....I mean, owner update, today. I'll try to get answers today. I do know that the room next to me has a bunch of construction debris on the patio. So something happened!

6 degrees this morning......no snow


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