# RCI changes= New strategies?



## kkelley

After reading and reading and reading, I think I am more confused than ever. 

I used to be able to trade my 4/2 at the Ridge at Sedona Golf Resorts very well to Hawaii, but now almost nothing is coming up. Should I consider this a short term issue with at least some return to the "old way" or is this going to be the standard from now on? 

I have two trips in mind - one to the Big Island between Aug and the end of September and the other to any and all of the islands next June (3+ weeks). I know no one has a crystal ball, but I'm hoping that someone would share a little insight or thoughts about this. Thanks so much in advance!!!


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## Conan

We're all in the dark here, but personally I'm not doing any more deposits to RCI Weeks (except for Wyndham points that I need to keep alive by deposit into RCI).  

Instead, I'm reserving the best weeks for myself and apart from the ones I normally rent for cash I'll deposit them into SFX, DAE or HTSE depending on where I plan to trade for.

It would be great if RCI saw deposits fall off, but that may be too much to hope for since TUG's knowledgeable users are a small fraction of the RCI universe.


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## robertr55

Not that it helps, but I can tell you my 1bdrm Winners Circle in Del Mar pulls up nothing on the Big Island between now and Nov09, and then pulls up only 4 resorts in Jun10 - Kona Billfisher, Raintree at Kona Reef, and Wyndham Mauna Loa Village on the Big Island, and Wynham Ka'eo Kai in Princeville.


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## Cathyb

robertr: what week in the Del Mar one?  Those resorts you mentioned aren't really that high class.....


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## kkelley

robertr55 said:


> Not that it helps, but I can tell you my 1bdrm Winners Circle in Del Mar pulls up nothing on the Big Island between now and Nov09, and then pulls up only 4 resorts in Jun10 - Kona Billfisher, Raintree at Kona Reef, and Wyndham Mauna Loa Village on the Big Island, and Wynham Ka'eo Kai in Princeville.



This morning I see Kona Billfisher 1 in late Aug, and a studio in Ka Eo Kai next June. 

Yes, I am thinking that I will really look at depositing with RCI ever again and learn use the alternate companies. Unfortunately these two trips are pretty much tied into RCI because of existing deposits. 

AS time progresses and hopefully, we figure out a way to deal with the RCI change or they figure out that at least some of us are going to stop depositing, perhaps things will improve, if not go back to the way they were before. 


Really more than 2 posts LOL I used to be eslkerry and forgot when I renewed!


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## kkelley

rklein001 said:


> We're all in the dark here, but personally I'm not doing any more deposits to RCI Weeks (except for Wyndham points that I need to keep alive by deposit into RCI).
> 
> Instead, I'm reserving the best weeks for myself and apart from the ones I normally rent for cash I'll deposit them into SFX, DAE or HTSE depending on where I plan to trade for.
> 
> It would be great if RCI saw deposits fall off, but that may be too much to hope for since TUG's knowledgeable users are a small fraction of the RCI universe.



Think domino effect, even if we are fewer, that means they will have less and then others will get the picture and they will have even less, etc etc. 

Here is my thought for what it is worth. As a business practice, RCI should be courting TUG users as we provide a good source of units in the middle range of trading. Our middle units in turn are good trades for those who would normally get frustrated with lack of any good trading ability. Once they step off the trading wagon, then where is the $165 that they each generate in addition to our $165? I know I am a PollyAnna, but I probably won't sell my two timeshares so I have to find a way to make it work.


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## Carolinian

For Hawaii, I would also look to www.htse.net and www.tradingplaces.com

One thing to look at is rental prices.  There are lots of places where RCI rentals are now regularly availible for at or less than m/f plus exchange fee.  I would get rid of anything that only trades for this level of resort, as it appears RCI would rather have you rent, and you lose money by trading.  That is the squeeze on depositing at the bottom.  The squeeze at the top is that much of the better inventory seems to be regularly hijacked to the rental pool, but rents for higher dollars.  Here renting doesn't save you  money, but the fact that the inventory is not there means that playing the exchange game with RCI is just not worth it anymore.  The key to whether the RCI exchange game works for you anymore is whether there is a class of resorts and weeks you are interested in that still reasonably appears in exchange inventory and that RCI rental prices make exchanging cheaper.  The areas where these two factors coincide seems to be shrinking.


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## robertr55

Cathyb said:


> robertr: what week in the Del Mar one?  Those resorts you mentioned aren't really that high class.....



Hi Cathy - I have week 45 at Winners Circle, so it's not exactly a "winner of a week" (but I got it for $202 on eBay, so I guess I'm getting what I paid for )


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## tombo

robertr55 said:


> Not that it helps, but I can tell you my 1bdrm Winners Circle in Del Mar pulls up nothing on the Big Island between now and Nov09, and then pulls up only 4 resorts in Jun10 - Kona Billfisher, Raintree at Kona Reef, and Wyndham Mauna Loa Village on the Big Island, and Wynham Ka'eo Kai in Princeville.



It all comes down to trading power. I have a 2 BED ROOM August ocean front on the east coast of Florida which lost it's silver crown status this year and has no rating that I deposited 14 days in advance and it can only see 2 resorts and 14 units on the big Island.

  Location  
      USA 
      --  Hawaii 
      ----  Big Island, Hawaii 

  Search Type  
     Exchange  


Filter By 
 Check-In Month  
August 2009  [1]  
September 2009  [1]  
December 2009  [1]  
May 2010  [1]  
September 2010  [3]  
October 2010  [3]  
November 2010  [3]  
December 2010  [1]  

 I have a SILVER CROWN ONE BED ROOM ocean front christmas week on the gulf oceanfront silver crown I deposited 6 months in advance which can see 106 units at 7 different resorts.

Location  
      USA 
      --  Hawaii 
      ----  Big Island, Hawaii 

  Search Type  
     Exchange  


Filter By 
 City  
Kailua-Kona  [68]  
Waikoloa  [38]  

 Check-In Month  
August 2009  [1]  
September 2009  [8]  
October 2009  [3]  
November 2009  [5]  
December 2009  [11]  
January 2010  [1]  
April 2010  [3]  
May 2010  [8]  
June 2010  [6]  
July 2010  [4]  
August 2010  [8]  
September 2010  [5]  
October 2010  [17]  
November 2010  [16]  
December 2010  [6]  
January 2011  [2]  
February 2011  [2]


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## rickandcindy23

*This is my own strategy, and I think it is a good one..*

1. *Never give anything again to RCI-EVER!*  Most of my resorts are II, so no problem with most....., and I am trying to talk Val Chatelle into dual-affiliation, but those darned exclusivity contracts are ten years, so if they aren't close to that ten years, there isn't much I can do.  

2. *What you already have in RCI, assume you will get last-minute stuff in Hawaii*, and it surely will.  But you have to watch every day, several times a day....., and then you have to decide when to grab something that is not exactly what you want.  This is unfortunate.  The key is to be flexible, but not with your dates, because you need to get airfare.  (August and September should be easy to get last-minute inventory).

3. *Take advantage of any resorts that have a one-in-? rule with RCI to the max.  *You can accomplish this by booking those resorts in consecutive weeks, and that is my plan for Orlando exchanges.  I will take every opportunity to book the largest units, 2 weeks consecutively (we only travel two weeks at a time), and I will use the blue weeks to get them.  

4. *Sell weeks that SFX and HTSE and Trading Places, etc., won't take*.  Give them away, if you must, and that is what I will do with two of my weeks.  

5. We belong to RCI Points, and I will give *RCI generic weeks for points*, but only for full point values, and only within 95 days or so, if I cannot get another exchange company to take my weeks.  I saw a new points' grid, and so I must assume RCI is changing the point values for PFD per week, based on season and demand.    This may force me to sell all of my summer weeks at Val Chatelle.   I cannot use RCI for weeks, no way will I do it. 

6. *Let RCI know what great weeks you have by offering them up for exchange *and have the guides check to see what Hawaii inventory you can get.  

For example: Say you own a Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 bedroom lockout and have April 2nd of 2010 reserved (Easter week and prime week for RCI), and can you get Hawaii with that week?  What can you offer me in Hawaii, or ask about Disney Vacation Club resorts, 2 bedrooms, then say I am flexible.  When they say, there are Hilton 2 beds in Hawaii, or a two-bedroom at Saratoga Springs, or whatever they offer, you just say, "Well, I don't want to finalize my deposit right now, so please pull it back."  OR I will deposit just half of my lockout, then ask them to confirm that 2 bedroom DVC or Hawaii week, on the phone.  This will require sightings from TUG members of availability in the prime areas.  
*Now RCI knows you own that week, and it is now in your account under Deposit Your Week* (this always happens when you pull back a week).  They will want it and will call you back sometime in the next several months to get that week.  Just tell them you don't trust them with your best weeks because your other weeks lost trading power during the late May-early June 2009 "enhancement".   

7. *Let your resort/ HOA Board know what RCI did to your trading power*, in one fell swoop, and advise that the resort sends out a list of alternate exchange companies.  This will hurt RCI where it lives.  It's the one big impact we can make on RCI.  This is very important in stopping RCI.  

I already told the president of Val Chatelle's board, and I am on the board at Twin Rivers.  I plan to let Foxrun board members know, although one board member is on our Yahoo Group, so she already knows.


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## Carolinian

Cindy, Unless something has changed RCI never enforces those exclusivity clauses, probably because they are likely illegal.  It is standard practice, however, for II to ask the resort to get a waiver from RCI.  Every resort on the OBX that asked for one was told it would be no problem.  If RCI does now balk on waivers, refer it to the arm of the state AG that enforces anti-monopoly laws and I'm sure they will change their tune.  However, I don't think you will have to go that far.  I think they will readily waive the exclusivity clause since they have in the past and the monopoly laws have not changed.


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## cr4909

kkelley said:


> After reading and reading and reading, I think I am more confused than ever.
> 
> I used to be able to trade my 4/2 at the Ridge at Sedona Golf Resorts very well to Hawaii, but now almost nothing is coming up. Should I consider this a short term issue with at least some return to the "old way" or is this going to be the standard from now on?



I wouldn't expect your trading power to go up.  After all, I think that Sedona is one of the 4 most overbuilt areas, along with Williamsburg, Branson, and Orlando.  I'm sure it's a great resort, but there are lots of great resorts in Sedona and it always seems easy to get an exchange there.  Judging objectivley, I'm sure that that the demand/supply is much greater in Hawaii than Sedona.  However, that being said, there just doesn't seem to be many deposits now for next summer.  And this includes checking for a weeks deposit with RCI Points, as there are no restrictions with trading power (but you can't see other Points-affiliated resorts deposited as a week)

So I would do this:
1) Put in an ongoing search.
2) Plan alternative accomodations.  Keeping with RCI, you might just try to book whatever you can at a less-than-stellar resort.  Or try a hotel or something that can be easily canceled.
3) Once you get within the 45-day window (and more realistically, 3 weeks), check every night and morning for a last-minute exchange.  If you're lucky, then you can "upgrade" for the $165 if you already booked at a less-desirable resort.


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## rickandcindy23

Carolinian, I am sure getting II to take deposits from resorts that are RCI only would be tough, and I suppose the board would really need to battle for it.  Most boards don't battle for anything--they just acquiesce.  I really dislike that characteristic of most boards.


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## Carolinian

rickandcindy23 said:


> Carolinian, I am sure getting II to take deposits from resorts that are RCI only would be tough, and I suppose the board would really need to battle for it.  Most boards don't battle for anything--they just acquiesce.  I really dislike that characteristic of most boards.



If you have a resort in a desirable area, then II is actually quite happy to have dual affiliation.  At least that is the way it worked on the OBX.  One kicker for small resorts is that the minimum number of units for II is higher than RCI.  I believe it is ten for RCI and maybe 20 for II, if memory serves.  Of course is either is anxious enough to add the resort, this can sometimes be waived.  The thing to do is first make an inquiry with II and gauge their interest, and then go from there.  There really is not much battle to it, when you get right down to it, unless II just doesn't want the resort.


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## tombo

I really don't understand why everyone is so upset. Perhaps many here think their weeks are more valuable than they are. It is just like when you have a wreck and total your car. To you it is worth a lot more than the book says no matter what the adjuster tells you, but in reality it is only worth what the book says.

My 1 bed room silver crown can exchange for 265 units at 21 different resorts in Hawaii currently. This resort costs me $525 a year in MF's, plus $169 exchange fee and I can stay in weeks which have Mf's of $1000 to $1500.

 Destination  
Big Island, Hawaii  [99]  
Kauai  [108]  
Maui  [43]  
Oahu  [15]  

 City  
Honolulu  [15]  
Kailua-Kona  [64]  
Kapaa  [4]  
Lahaina  [43]  
Lihue  [22]  
Princeville  [82]  
Waikoloa  [35]  

 As I said before when all of the upset RCI members take their Sedona and Orlando,Vegas, and Branson weeks and refuse to deposit them with RCI, there will be more great trades for the rest of us to get that we actually want. When you pout and take your February beach weeks and October Ski weeks that none of us want to trade for (and you don't want to use yourself which is why you are trading it to RCI), then you won't be trading for the good Orlando weeks, the good hawaii weeks, or the good carribbean weeks before the less rabid RCI members even see them for trade. 

You will teach RCI a lesson. Please take your weeks that you used to dump on RCI each year with you, or even better use those valuable weeks yourself. That will teach them a lesson. Members will quit left and right as the yellow week inentory grows smaller and the summer beach weeks, Hawaii weeks, and Gold Crown orlando weeks inventory grows. It will be the death blow for RCI!

Some of the most voracious RCI traders who watch RCI every day are here on TUG. These folks grab the good inventory as soon as it appears and most of us never know that it was available. The people who have gotten the best RCI trades through the years will now quit RCI and no longer be taking those weeks we want while leaving the weak weeks they deposited that we don't want. RCI will get better immediatelly and our available quality inventory should pick up quick too. RCI might not survive all 20 to 30 of you quitting and leaving them with a few 100,000 members, but I will stay a member of RCI hoping they somehow survive the mass exodus of less than 50 TUGGERS. 

Like everyone else I will have to adapt to the changes. I will ride out the storm resulting from the mass exodus and my loss of available blue weeks to trade for. I will somehow learn to be happy when less junk inventory is available to trade for and more quality inventory remains available. I will still remain an RCI member with the remaining few 100,000 holdouts. Hopefully RCI can remain solvent without the couple of dozen members from TUG who quit. Only time will tell.


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## Carolinian

Tombo, Did you miss posts like the one where Allen House in London, the resort with probably the highest demand over supply curve in all of timesharing, lost trading power?  That is just nuts.  At the same time, others are reporting their lesser resorts GAINING trading power.

When I see my summer weeks in northern Europe at resorts where RCI has NO inventory ANY time of the year losing trading power, something is clearly wrong.  It is not a low demand resort, when RCI cannot keep even January weeks in inventory, and summer is the highest demand period.


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## waldvogelmj

How could everyone go down in trading power?  That doesn't make sense.  Someone had to benefit if there really were changes made.  Has anyone figured out who that was?


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> Tombo, Did you miss posts like the one where Allen House in London, the resort with probably the highest demand over supply curve in all of timesharing, lost trading power?  That is just nuts.  At the same time, others are reporting their lesser resorts GAINING trading power.
> 
> When I see my summer weeks in northern Europe at resorts where RCI has NO inventory ANY time of the year losing trading power, something is clearly wrong.  It is not a low demand resort, when RCI cannot keep even January weeks in inventory, and summer is the highest demand period.




As everyone else here is doing, I too am thinking selfishly. I might go to Europe once every 5 or 6 years, probably only every 8 to 10 years. A couple of times to Europe in my life is plenty for me. Just not a big fan, but if you like it great. There are 30,465 weeks currently available with a good (not great) trade. If few people deposit European weeks making few Europe weeks available, it is not a big deal to me or most RCI members from America who rarely (if ever) travel to Europe. So to us Europe is low demand or zero demand.

Currently I can see 30,465 units at 594 resorts.

 Region  
Canary Islands  [9,824]  
Central Europe  [2,805]  
France  [400]  
Italy  [1,090]  
Mediterranean  [1,803]  
Portugal  [2,438]  
Scandinavia & Finland  [3,628]  
Spain  [7,693]  
United Kingdom & Ireland  [665]  

Out of the above 30,465 weeks, I don't want to trade for a single week at any resort in the next 6 or more years years because I have no interest in traveling to Europe in the near future (Europe low demand from me). 

Hawaii, not interested in the next 4 to 5 years since I went last year and only like to go after the memories of the miserable travel time have faded ( Hawaii gets higher demand from me). Hawaii for most west coast people is an every year demand trade which makes it something most people want. Hawaii is very high demand. Deposit you Hawaii weeks far in advance and see how much available inventory will show up.

I am interested in Orlando this year and again in maybe 3 to 4 years from now. (even higher demand). I can see a lot of Orlando inventory but the best resorts come and go very quickly (probably grabbed by someone trading a week i could care less about). Unfortunatelly there is a lot of Orlando inventory available at good resorts, so you should expect your Orlando deposit to have lower trade values.

I want to go to the carribbean at least 4 out of the next 5 or 6 years (even higher demand). I see limited caribbean inventory, especially in February. Not a large amount of carribbean weeks available to trade for. This means you should have great luck trading for what you want if you deposit your carribbean week with RCI a year or more in advance.

I want to go to an ocean front beach resort in the southern US each and every year until I am too old to travel (the highest demand for me). I can see very few ocean front summer weeks available to exchange for (as one would expect since most people would like to snag one of those). Deposit a 2 bed room gold crown ocean front 4th of July week and you will see where all of the good RCI inventory is available.

If people here are depositing Hawaii, caribbean, and summer ocean front beach weeks (June July, August) 6 months to a year in advance and not seeing any good inventory, that is sad for you and RCI is doing a poor job. However, if you are depositing Europe, South Africa, fall ski weeks when there is no snow, beach weeks when it is cold, and one bed rooms in Branson or Orlando and not seeing Hawaii, the caribbean, or summer ocean front weeks, then RCI is doing a good job. Buy and deposit some valuable hard to trade for weeks far in advance and you too can get some of those valuable hard to trade for weeks. If you deposit weak traders, you should only see weak availability. The fact that you could get a great trade for a weak deposit in the past means that for years you have beat the system. if you can no longer do that then don't cry because RCI fixed it to wrk correctly.

You do have the power and ultimate response to show your displeasure to RCI, and that is to quit and never deposit your weak traders with them again. Please do that soon rather than remaining a member and continuing to steal many of the weeks in inventory I want by depositing weeks I could care less about in locations I do not care to travel to. Don't keep threatening. Please call RCI and quit today!!!!!


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## Carolinian

If you want to see where all the great RCI inventory is, it is not a matter of depositing anything.  It is a matter of pulling out your wallet, because much of it has been shunted aside into their rental pool.

As to all of the those Europe weeks you think you see, take a hard look and you will find most of them are in overbuilt places like the Canary Islands, Spain, Hungary, and Finland.  When you look at the most requested countries like the UK, you will find exchanges, particularly in England scarce in warm season.  Unless, of course, you go to the rental pool and you then discover where RCI has been hiding them.


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## AwayWeGo

*Finland ?*




Carolinian said:


> As to all of the those Europe weeks you think you see, take a hard look and you will find most of them are in overbuilt places like the Canary Islands, Spain, Hungary, and Finland.


Well, shux, aren't the Canary Islands considered more or less the Europeans' equivalent of  Orlando FL  ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> If you want to see where all the great RCI inventory is, it is not a matter of depositing anything.  It is a matter of pulling out your wallet, because much of it has been shunted aside into their rental pool.
> 
> As to all of the those Europe weeks you think you see, take a hard look and you will find most of them are in overbuilt places like the Canary Islands, Spain, Hungary, and Finland.  When you look at the most requested countries like the UK, you will find exchanges, particularly in England scarce in warm season.  Unless, of course, you go to the rental pool and you then discover where RCI has been hiding them.



They are rare in the warm season. I agree 100% that those are hard to get weeks. Deposit a warm season in the UK 12 months or more in advance and look at the large amount of available inventory that will show up. Deposit any old europe week and yu shouldn't expect to see a ton of hawaii or warm season europe weeks. 

Look at what i can see in the UK and Ireland with a good trader. I shouldn't be able to see a lot of warm season weeks because I only deposited a GOOD week. I can see a lot of GOOD weeks available though which is as it should be:

October 2009  [10]  
November 2009  [89]  
December 2009  [112]  
January 2010  [104]  
February 2010  [62]  
March 2010  [23]  
April 2010  [2]  
May 2010  [1]  
October 2010  [9]  
November 2010  [47]  
December 2010  [51]  
January 2011  [61]  
February 2011  [43]  
March 2011  [29]  
April 2011  [14]  
May 2011  [5]  
June 2011  [3]  


Junk in , junk out is a good rule. Deposit a december, january , or February week and you should have poor trade value because those are easy to get. 


Deposit an April, May, or June week and you have deposited something that is hard to get, so you should have great trade power. Gold in, Gold out is also applicable.

Everyone here wants to deposit a January UK week and be able to trade for a warm season Europe week, a Disney week at Animal Kingdom, Aruba, Ocean front summer on Hilton Head, Key West in the winter, Panama City Beach Florida in the summer, etc. People don't want to buy Hawaii and pay the high purchase costs and high MF's, but they expect to be able to easily trade for them. Those TUGGERS that own hawaii tend to rent their weeks or use them personally, they rarely deposit them, but they somehow seem to expect others to deposit their Hawaii weeks so they can easily trade for them with a weak trader they deposited. So many here talk about how they would never deposit their DVC week in RCI, yet they expect to be able to trade for a DVC week with a week they will gladly deosit with RCI since they don't want to use it themselves. Does that really make any sense to think it would work that way?

It is ridiculous how many TUGGERS keep their best weeks and never deposit them , but expect the weak weeks or last minute weeks they deposit to return the best RCI has to offer. If you want the best RCI has to offer, deposit one of the best weeks that RCI can receive, and do it far in advance. 

If you will not be happy unless your weak to good trade gets you Hawaii and DVC, please quit RCI in protest because that will probably not happen again. Don't wait, call RCI right now and QUIT!!!! Most of us won't miss the weeks you used to deposit, but we will surely enjoy the weeks you used to trade for. Before you get busy and forget, go ahead and call 
1-800-338-7777  and quit RCI in protest. It is a toll free call and it will make us all happier.


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## jamstew

tombo said:


> My 1 bed room silver crown can exchange for 265 units at 21 different resorts in Hawaii currently.



That's great for you, but my *2*-bedroom silver crown red summer week can only exchange for 34 units in 8 resorts. Of those 8 resorts, 3 are silver crown and two are hospitality, and there are only two 2-bedrooms. None of that matters to me, because I'm not looking to go to Hawaii, just Orlando, which everyone says is one of the most overbuilt destinations. I don't expect DVC (I'm an owner so I don't need it). I just can't get Bonnet Creek, the one I really need, and I don't understand why. Yes, it's gold crown and I don't own gold crown, but I'd happily take a smaller unit. I can get every other Wyndham on the freakin' planet, so why did they take that *one* resort (the one I really, really want) away? Yes, I'm upset and whining about it. :annoyed:


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## rickandcindy23

Jamie, the Hiltons are great, and I can see them with a blue week, so I know they are there. 

I am also disappointed and whiny, after this downgrade in my trading power.  I have called and written to RCI, and they just plain don't care.  

Tombo, please excuse us for whining, but if your trading power went down substantially, you wouldn't be happy either.  Stop making it seem like we are being unreasonable, please.   We have always understood that trading power was set AT THE TIME OF DEPOSIT, and now RCI changed their own rules, so of course we are upset.  Seriously, a little sympathy, please?


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## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> Seriously, a little sympathy, please?



I am sorry that I am not more sympathetic, but some of the same people here whining about not seeing Hawaii, DVC, and prime locations in Orlando are the same people who have bragged for years how they would never deposit their good weeks in RCI and instead rent them or use them personally. They have talked about all the weeks they own mainly for trading with $450 annual MF's which have gotten them Shearwater, Bonnet Creek, Maui, and many other great trades in the past. If NOBODY deposited their great Hawaii, DVC, HGVC, etc weeks, there would never be any to trade for. Good thing some people don't read TUG huh?

Now RCI has adjusted trading power for ALL OF US. Some of my weeks went way down too, and a couple went up. It is not apocolyptic to me because I usually rent my weeks out or use my weeks I own myself. I usually deposit with RCI last minute when a week hasn't rented or when my travel plans changed just so I don't lose the week. 

As I said above I have a 2 bed ocean front August week on the atlantic coast that can only see 2 resorts and 14 units on the big Island. This was a last minute deposit and lost it's silver crown status so even though it was ocean front summer week, it is a weak trader. I also have a one bed room silver crown Christmas ocean front week that was deposited 6 months in advance. I can see 106 units at 7 different resorts on the big Island.  The 2 bed room trades for a lot less than the one bed room for the reasons i mentioned. Christmas is a big week, it was deposited 6 months in advance instead of 14 days, and it is a location with a very limited number of timeshares.  If I only had the 2 bed room to compare it would seem bad because that 2 bed room traded a lot better before the change. Now the one bed room trades better than it used to. I think RCI is correct with regards to the trading power of these 2 weeks.

When I have a big trip I want to take in the next couple of years, I deposit one of my best renting hard to get weeks very far in advance so that I can have strong trading power. This will give me a chance to get what I want for exchange. I do not (and should not) expect to deposit one of my weak traders or use a last minute deposit to get prime resorts in hard to get locations at hard to get times. 

If one of my best weeks deposited far in advance won't get me what I want to exchange for, I will rent from an owner. I do not whine because after playing the timeshare game for years I know that if there is a location you want to visit on a regular basis that you need to buy there. I own at every location i want to travel to annually or semi-annually. 

If this were newbies I would have more sympathy, but from seasoned timeshare veterans here on TUG I would have expected that everyone would know the Mantra of buy where you want to go and never assume that any week you own will get you a trade where you want to vacation, or get a trade at the time you want to be there. I am sorry that you are not able to get all the trades you want using any week you want to deposit, but you never should have been able to. The best trades should only be seen and available to those who make the best deposits. Everyone here knows that is the right way to do it, and now that RCI is apparently trying to do it right, everyone is throwing an RCI sucks party here.

I like RCI for the most part. If I didn't I would quit. If anyone doesn't like RCI, quit. It will be great for those of us that remain members because many of you will no longer exchange for the best weeks RCI has in it's exchange inventory giving the rest of us more chances to get those limited prime weeks. JMHO.


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## bnoble

> Tombo, Did you miss posts like the one where Allen House in London, the resort with probably the highest demand over supply curve in all of timesharing, lost trading power?


If I recall, at the end of that discussion we decided that the Allen House deposit *was* seeing nearly everything that anyone else saw during its window----the reason it had a comparatively low number is that it could only search a shorter window.


----------



## tombo

jamstew said:


> That's great for you, but my *2*-bedroom silver crown red summer week can only exchange for 34 units in 8 resorts. Of those 8 resorts, 3 are silver crown and two are hospitality, and there are only two 2-bedrooms. None of that matters to me, because I'm not looking to go to Hawaii, just Orlando, which everyone says is one of the most overbuilt destinations. I don't expect DVC (I'm an owner so I don't need it). I just can't get Bonnet Creek, the one I really need, and I don't understand why. Yes, it's gold crown and I don't own gold crown, but I'd happily take a smaller unit. I can get every other Wyndham on the freakin' planet, so why did they take that *one* resort (the one I really, really want) away? Yes, I'm upset and whining about it. :annoyed:



Deposit your Disney Beach Club week with RCI and I bet you could get Bonnett Creek. You of course do not want to deposit your Disney week with RCI. You won't deposit your Gold Crown Disney week to try and trade for a top rated Gold Crown Orlando resort. You instead deposit a Silver Crown week to exchange with RCI and yet you refuse to accept anything but the top rated non Disney/HGVC resort in Orlando. Do you really not understand why you can't get it? Seriously?


----------



## kkelley

Nevermind, I'm sorry I asked.


----------



## rickandcindy23

kkelley said:


> Nevermind, I'm sorry I asked.



It's okay, I empathize, believe me.  There is no argument here, just a different opinion.  Tombo makes some good points, but I have my own experiences, and mine tell me that this is a drastic change in what I am used to getting, even from ten years ago, when we went to Hawaii the first time with our kids, and we were able to get Gold Crown resorts, months ahead of time, with the very same weeks I am using now.  I have only been a TUG member for four years, so I didn't learn a thing from anyone about getting something much better than we own.  Our Colorado weeks have consistently done well, and suddenly it's all changed.  I am angry about it. 

Prime summer in Colorado is actually hard to find, especially in Breck/ Frisco, where our resort is located.  So I think it always had high trading power for good reason.  Our weeks are JULY weeks, too.


----------



## jamstew

tombo said:


> Deposit your Disney Beach Club week with RCI and I bet you could get Bonnett Creek. You of course do not want to deposit your Disney week with RCI. You won't deposit your Gold Crown Disney week to try and trade for a top rated Gold Crown Orlando resort. You instead deposit a Silver Crown week to exchange with RCI and yet you refuse to accept anything but the top rated non Disney/HGVC resort in Orlando. Do you really not understand why you can't get it? Seriously?



First, I'm not refusing to accept anything.

No, I honestly don't get it--_seriously_! If I weren't able to get *any* top rated gold crowns, _especially_ in Orlando (or Vegas for that matter), I could understand it. But I *can* get lots of others (including HGVC). What I don't understand is why I can't get that particular *one*, especially considering that I *could* get it when my deposit was made _and when the trading power was supposedly established_. What I don't understand--seriously--is why that _one specific, top rated gold crown resort_ is different from other top rated gold crown resorts. 

As I've mentioned on other threads, I'm not even looking for high season. The only reason I want Bonnet Creek in particular is to supplement a DVC stay _because they have a shuttle and I can't drive at night._ But that's okay, I can rent it, or I can probably find a Downtown Disney area hotel with a shuttle for cheap. It's the _principle_. And no, there's no way I'd trade out DVC for anything, ever.  

Another thing I _seriously_ don't get is why I should have to take studio or 1BR silver crowns in exchange for my 2BR silver crown. It's supposed to be _like-for-like_, right?


----------



## rickandcindy23

It is the principle, because trading power is set at the time of deposit, and why is that not true today?  They should have made this change from this day forward, affecting the new deposits, not those we had in our accounts!  

I will get my exchanges over the next three years with RCI, because I will literally use each and every one, but I am missing what I had a few short weeks ago.


----------



## Carolinian

AwayWeGo said:


> Well, shux, aren't the Canary Islands considered more or less the Europeans' equivalent of  Orlando FL  ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Exactly!  And Spain, Hungary,and Finland are not far behind.


----------



## Carolinian

Tombo, the stuff just isn't there.  Don't you get it?  Someone with a June Allen House week, the creme de la creme of UK timeshare based on huge demand and little supply, could not pull decent stuff in summer in England.  If that cannot, nothing else in the UK will.

It has been years since I owned a blue week,  Everything I own is summer and red, like July OBX beach, and a couple of summer weeks in northern Europe (not the overbuilt countries) in resorts that RCI currently has no availibility at any time of the year.  The one exception is a red silver crown SA where RCI's availibility table in the European version of its directory shows the most limited category of availibility all 12 months of the year, a much more favorably supply / demand situation than, say, Florida.

What you describe is the way RCI trading power should work, and the way it did work before points and rentals showed up.  Where does one find the missing weeks?  Usually the RCI rental pool.  Try taking off the rose colored glasses.

If you want to know where the missing RCI UK weeks are, take it from an RCI employee who has seen their computers:

www.timesharetalk.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7761

The owner of Timesharetalk site, essentially a UK equivalent of TUG, checked out Anon's bona fides by asking him questions about his own RCI account that only someone with access to RCI's computers could answer and Anon came back with all of the right answers.  Anon is exactly what he says he is.





tombo said:


> They are rare in the warm season. I agree 100% that those are hard to get weeks. Deposit a warm season in the UK 12 months or more in advance and look at the large amount of available inventory that will show up. Deposit any old europe week and yu shouldn't expect to see a ton of hawaii or warm season europe weeks.
> 
> Look at what i can see in the UK and Ireland with a good trader. I shouldn't be able to see a lot of warm season weeks because I only deposited a GOOD week. I can see a lot of GOOD weeks available though which is as it should be:
> 
> October 2009  [10]
> November 2009  [89]
> December 2009  [112]
> January 2010  [104]
> February 2010  [62]
> March 2010  [23]
> April 2010  [2]
> May 2010  [1]
> October 2010  [9]
> November 2010  [47]
> December 2010  [51]
> January 2011  [61]
> February 2011  [43]
> March 2011  [29]
> April 2011  [14]
> May 2011  [5]
> June 2011  [3]
> 
> 
> Junk in , junk out is a good rule. Deposit a december, january , or February week and you should have poor trade value because those are easy to get.
> 
> 
> Deposit an April, May, or June week and you have deposited something that is hard to get, so you should have great trade power. Gold in, Gold out is also applicable.
> 
> Everyone here wants to deposit a January UK week and be able to trade for a warm season Europe week, a Disney week at Animal Kingdom, Aruba, Ocean front summer on Hilton Head, Key West in the winter, Panama City Beach Florida in the summer, etc. People don't want to buy Hawaii and pay the high purchase costs and high MF's, but they expect to be able to easily trade for them. Those TUGGERS that own hawaii tend to rent their weeks or use them personally, they rarely deposit them, but they somehow seem to expect others to deposit their Hawaii weeks so they can easily trade for them with a weak trader they deposited. So many here talk about how they would never deposit their DVC week in RCI, yet they expect to be able to trade for a DVC week with a week they will gladly deosit with RCI since they don't want to use it themselves. Does that really make any sense to think it would work that way?
> 
> It is ridiculous how many TUGGERS keep their best weeks and never deposit them , but expect the weak weeks or last minute weeks they deposit to return the best RCI has to offer. If you want the best RCI has to offer, deposit one of the best weeks that RCI can receive, and do it far in advance.
> 
> If you will not be happy unless your weak to good trade gets you Hawaii and DVC, please quit RCI in protest because that will probably not happen again. Don't wait, call RCI right now and QUIT!!!! Most of us won't miss the weeks you used to deposit, but we will surely enjoy the weeks you used to trade for. Before you get busy and forget, go ahead and call
> 1-800-338-7777  and quit RCI in protest. It is a toll free call and it will make us all happier.


----------



## Carolinian

bnoble said:


> If I recall, at the end of that discussion we decided that the Allen House deposit *was* seeing nearly everything that anyone else saw during its window----the reason it had a comparatively low number is that it could only search a shorter window.



But the real point is that even good weeks are not seeing anything in the UK like used to be availible.  Heck my July week at a northern European silver crown resort where RCI has no availibility any time of the year sees a heck of a lot less what a blue OBX week used to see some years ago when I used to own such a week.  I would hate to see what a blue week pulls now!


----------



## tombo

jamstew said:


> First, I'm not refusing to accept anything.
> 
> No, I honestly don't get it--_seriously_! If I weren't able to get *any* top rated gold crowns, _especially_ in Orlando (or Vegas for that matter), I could understand it. But I *can* get lots of others (including HGVC). What I don't understand is why I can't get that particular *one*, especially considering that I *could* get it when my deposit was made
> Another thing I _seriously_ don't get is why I should have to take studio or 1BR silver crowns in exchange for my 2BR silver crown. It's supposed to be _like-for-like_, right?



 As far as not being able to see what you could before the change, that is how it works. After the change, things have changed. If I could get round trip first class for 50,000 XYZ airline miles last year that you had accumulated over the years, but I didn't book, now it takes 75,000 miles or more for the same flight.The rules changed and so did the value of my miles. If I had booked before they changed I would have gotten the R/T ticket for 50,000. I didn't book before the change so the 50,000 won't work anymore. It hapened to me this year with Delta miles (yes Carolinian the hated Delta). I should have booked sooner but didn't. I hate it but they changed the rules for everyone, not just me. I did not whine or write protest letters. I simply booked with more FF miles.

 If you had reserved one of the Bonnett Creek weeks you could see before RCI's change you would have gotten it. You didn't. Now you can only get what your week will pull after the change. Do you expect them to honor trades you never confirmed?

You start out by saying that you don't refuse to accept anything, then you follow up immediatelly saying that you can get plenty of top rated Gold Crowns including HGVC.  Well if you would take anything you would gladly take HGVC. That is not a dump they are forcing you to take! Of course out of the hundred plus resorts in Orlando only one will make you happy. Does it really seem right to you that you are upset that you can't get the toughest resort to exchange for in Orlando (other than DVC) with a silver crown deposit? If you want like for like as you claim, you shouldn't even be able to see HGVC, OLCC, or any other Gold Crown resort with your Silver Crown deposit. I personally am thrilled to deposit a silver crown week and see HGVC and other top resorts and appreciate RCI for chances at those resorts. I know I am getting the opportunity to trade for a better week than I deposited. I don't dwell on the fact that I can't see Bonnett creek or DVC (which I can ocassionally see, but shouldn't). 

You should only be seeing 2 bed room SILVER CROWN resorts using your "like for like" theory, right? Why don't you complain that exchangers like yourself are able to get gold crown weeks (like HGVC) with silver crown deposits? This means that silver crown depositers are taking Gold Crown inventory from people who actually deposited gold crown weeks? Where is your RCI outrage that they are giving you the opportunity to TRADE UP rather than "LIKE FOR LIKE"? Why is everyone here only complaining because they can no longer easily trade up to a better week than they deposited?


----------



## Carolinian

When the ''change'' seems to be hijacking exchange deposits for rentals, members have every right to be concerned.  Did you read the info from Anon in the link above?  RCI just seems to go farther and farther in this direction.

All of this is getting to the point of impacting resort economics and our HOA's should be raising a howl, and in the meantime develop other markets for all weeks, but most urgently offseason weeks than to people who mainly plan to rent with RCI.  Part of this should be to other exchange companies and part to other owner bases.  Any thinking HOA should be exploring dual affiliation with II and also educating its members about the independent exchange companies that are out there.

A crown ranking does not make a particular resort a better resort or in higher demand relative to supply than an unranked resort.  It is merely one driver of demand.  Location is in fact usually a more important driver and particularly location in conjunction with season.  A July week at a standard resort on Cape Cod or in London is going to beat the pants off of most, if not all, Gold Corwns in an overbuilt area like Orlando or the Canary Islands.


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> But the real point is that even good weeks are not seeing anything in the UK like used to be availible.  Heck my July week at a northern European silver crown resort where RCI has no availibility any time of the year sees a heck of a lot less what a blue OBX week used to see some years ago when I used to own such a week.  I would hate to see what a blue week pulls now!



As I said before, Europe is of limited demand in the US RCI. I never hear any TUGGER other than you who goes to europe every year other than those who live in Europe. I know plenty of TUGGERS who go to Hawaii every year, the caribbean every year, California, Hilton Head, Orlando, Vegas, a US beach, etc every year. The demand for europe is probaly nowhere near what you think it is here in the US. Even though inventory is limited, there are not a lot of people fighting over it. Aruba yes, St Johns yes, Hawaii yes, UK, no. Out of the people who post the most on TUG very few that I recognize have discussed their recent or future trip to Europe besides you. Not that tuggers don't vacation there, it just isn't an annual or semi-annual trip for most like most high demand RCI locations. In the next 5 years I will do the mainland several weeks each year, the caribbean almost every year, Hawaii probably once, South Africa none, and Europe none. I think that most RCI USA members and most Tuggers travel like me and have demand for the US and the caribbean almost exclusivelly with Erope and SA being a once in the blue moon trade.

What the value of a week is in RCI Europe doesn't matter to me because I am not a member. It is interesting to hear about, but their trading strengths or weaknesses don't affect me at all.


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> .
> 
> A crown ranking does not make a particular resort a better resort or in higher demand relative to supply than an unranked resort.  It is merely one driver of demand.  Location is in fact usually a more important driver and particularly location in conjunction with season.  A July week at a standard resort on Cape Cod or in London is going to beat the pants off of most, if not all, Gold Corwns in an overbuilt area like Orlando or the Canary Islands.




I agree that the ranking is one of several factors. However I think you would find very few Silver Crown resorts that would be considered trading up from an HGVC deposit. I think it is hard if not impossible to find a silver crown summer week in Colorado that isn't trading UP when they exchange for a gold or silver crown in Hawaii. There are few Silver Crown resorts anywhere that equate to a DVC or Bonnett Creek. These are the weeks everyone is mad that their silver crowns won't trade for anymore. Does this outrage really seem justifiable to any reasonable person?


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's okay, I empathize, believe me.  There is no argument here, just a different opinion.  Tombo makes some good points, but I have my own experiences, and mine tell me that this is a drastic change in what I am used to getting, even from ten years ago, when we went to Hawaii the first time with our kids, and we were able to get Gold Crown resorts, months ahead of time, with the very same weeks I am using now.  I have only been a TUG member for four years, so I didn't learn a thing from anyone about getting something much better than we own.  Our Colorado weeks have consistently done well, and suddenly it's all changed.  I am angry about it.
> 
> Prime summer in Colorado is actually hard to find, especially in Breck/ Frisco, where our resort is located.  So I think it always had high trading power for good reason.  Our weeks are JULY weeks, too.



Ski weeks are the highest demand and hardest to get Colorado weeks from my experience. Summer availability is higher than Jan Feb and March when there is snow in Colorado.  I am not saying that your week isn't high demand, just not the highest demand.  March is by far the hardest to get month in Colorado Here is what I currently see for 2010:

 City  
Aspen  [20]  
Avon  [34]  
Beaver Creek  [2]  
Breckenridge  [164]  
Copper Mountain  [63]  
Dillon  [90]  
Durango  [33]  
Estes Park  [128]  
Frisco  [13]  
Keystone  [3]  
Mesa  [50]  
Mount Crested Butte  [5]  
Pagosa Springs  [131]  
Silvercreek  [226]  
Steamboat Springs  [210]  
Vail  [220]  
Winter Park  [209]  

 Check-In Month  

January 2010  [53]  
February 2010  [37]  
March 2010  [24]  
April 2010  [97]  
May 2010  [119]  
June 2010  [67]  
July 2010  [84]  
August 2010  [83]


----------



## rickandcindy23

Trading power is supposed to be set AT THE TIME OF DEPOSIT and never has changed in the middle of the game.  

That is what RCI said for the first two weeks after the "enhancement."  

Then all of a sudden, deposits are subject to change without notice.  

This is a big company that is taking great advantage of its customers, and their new system made it very possible for us to see the downgrades because it showed how many total weeks were available before vs. now.  It's NOT OKAY WITH ME.  BUT I WILL DEAL.   

Anyone who is angry and upset with the changes, I empathize, but they will lose my business, and so Tombo doesn't care about my July Summit County weeks, and that is fine by me.........There are alternatives.


----------



## rickandcindy23

Only sixteen one and two bedrooms are available in Summit County for July of 2010 at this moment, which is Breck, Dillon, and Frisco.  NONE are Silver Crown, all are regular old resorts.  I actually see more weeks in Colorado than you can see.  

Don't underestimate the size of the Colorado Rocky Mountains.  These different areas are hugely distant from one another, and Summit County is always in low supply and high demand.


----------



## Carolinian

Actually for the last two years, I have lived and worked in Europe, but prior to that I travelled here about 5-6 times a year.

You may not be interested in Europe, but if you read the Europe board, you will find more on TUG who do.  The availibility charts in the European version of the directory have to do with total supply and demand in the system, not what geographical part of the system the demand is from.  There are many places in Europe, and indeed even South Africa, which cream Florida on low availibility (supply relative to demand).  Also my home resort on the OBX has a regular newsletter column asking members to report trades they get through various exchange companies.  There are regularly more trades to Europe reported than to the Caribbean or Hawaii.

The availibility of a week in the RCI system is not based on demand vs supply in the US market or the European market.  It is based on overall demand internationally vs overall supply.  The segmentation you try to make in the market just doesn't exist, except, and you may be surprised, RCI has at times given European members some advantages because RCI's avaiblility overall was more limited in Europe than in the US.  I am not certain if they still do this, but for years they gave European members a 2 for 1 exchange if they would trade to the US rather than stay in Europe, and more recently RCI has started holding back some of the European inventory to reserve for European members, which is not availible to US members.  Of course, the biggest problem for members overall is the rentals, and you have not yet addressed Anon's info in the link to Timesharetalk.




tombo said:


> As I said before, Europe is of limited demand in the US RCI. I never hear any TUGGER other than you who goes to europe every year other than those who live in Europe. I know plenty of TUGGERS who go to Hawaii every year, the caribbean every year, California, Hilton Head, Orlando, Vegas, a US beach, etc every year. The demand for europe is probaly nowhere near what you think it is here in the US. Even though inventory is limited, there are not a lot of people fighting over it. Aruba yes, St Johns yes, Hawaii yes, UK, no. Out of the people who post the most on TUG very few that I recognize have discussed their recent or future trip to Europe besides you. Not that tuggers don't vacation there, it just isn't an annual or semi-annual trip for most like most high demand RCI locations. In the next 5 years I will do the mainland several weeks each year, the caribbean almost every year, Hawaii probably once, South Africa none, and Europe none. I think that most RCI USA members and most Tuggers travel like me and have demand for the US and the caribbean almost exclusivelly with Erope and SA being a once in the blue moon trade.
> 
> What the value of a week is in RCI Europe doesn't matter to me because I am not a member. It is interesting to hear about, but their trading strengths or weaknesses don't affect me at all.


----------



## Carolinian

The main corrective action needs to be throught he HOA's.  Educate members about what is going on and what their alternatives are.  Talk to board members, stand up at annual meetings, and if permitted write a letter to the editor of the resort newsletter.




rickandcindy23 said:


> Trading power is supposed to be set AT THE TIME OF DEPOSIT and never has changed in the middle of the game.
> 
> That is what RCI said for the first two weeks after the "enhancement."
> 
> Then all of a sudden, deposits are subject to change without notice.
> 
> This is a big company that is taking great advantage of its customers, and their new system made it very possible for us to see the downgrades because it showed how many total weeks were available before vs. now.  It's NOT OKAY WITH ME.  BUT I WILL DEAL.
> 
> Anyone who is angry and upset with the changes, I empathize, but they will lose my business, and so Tombo doesn't care about my July Summit County weeks, and that is fine by me.........There are alternatives.


----------



## jamstew

tombo said:


> If you had reserved one of the Bonnett Creek weeks you could see before RCI's change you would have gotten it.



I would have happily reserved one of the weeks, but the dates only went through January, and I was looking for the first two weeks in May.


----------



## waldvogelmj

The whole rental thing doesn't make sense to me.  Let's say I own a Disney week and I deposit that with RCI, can they really turn around and just rent that to someone else?  Aren't they required by some agreement to exchange that with someone else for what they deposit?  Why would they exchange away any of the valuable weeks if they can get $3000 by renting that Disney week?  I find it hard to believe that they can do that.


----------



## happymum

tombo said:


> This means you should have great luck trading for what you want if you deposit your carribbean week with RCI a year or more in advance.
> 
> 
> If people here are depositing Hawaii, caribbean, and summer ocean front beach weeks (June July, August) 6 months to a year in advance and not seeing any good inventory, that is sad for you and RCI is doing a poor job.



My Carribean silver crown April week, deposited a year in advance,  is seeing 145000 units.





rickandcindy23 said:


> It is the principle, because trading power is set at the time of deposit, and why is that not true today?  They should have made this change from this day forward, affecting the new deposits, not those we had in our accounts!
> (



This notice was posted on the Interval board in May :

Trading Value

Interval International’s exchange program is based upon the concept of “comparable exchange”. In applying this concept, Interval works to provide you an exchange which is comparable in trading value to that of the week you have relinquished. The supply and demand of the week you relinquish is an important factor in determining its trading value and, ultimately, the week in to which you will be confirmed. World events, such as current health concerns regarding travel to Mexico, may reduce the demand for travel to the impacted region and, accordingly, may result in a reduced trading value for affected weeks.


So what RCI is doing is no different than II's practise.


----------



## "Roger"

For those who are waxing over how things used to be ...

You might start by reading why Bill Rogers started TUG in the first place.  He did not see his terrible exchange as an isolated incident, but something endemic to timesharing.

When I am not on TUG, but talk to people at work about timesharing, here are the experiences I have ...


A coworker would not tell people she owned a timeshare because she did not people to think that she was soft minded.  While using one's own timeshare might be okay, what you can get in a timeshare trade is a bad deal; everyone knows this.

Someone who owned in Hawaii (what was the Embassy in Maui) tried to go every other year and use his week from the off year to trade to Kauai.  One year the best he could get was the Banyon in Lihue; another, the Makai Club.  These were huge downward trades. (I did not tell him that someone on TUG was complaining because he had only been able to use is non-rated SA weeks to get four weeks at the Embassy and wondered how to get a fifth.)  This coworker gave up on trading and now rents a non-timeshare for his second week.

Someone at a dinner party announced that you should pay the higher cost of a Marriott (both initial costs and maintenence fees) because trading Marriotts for Marriotts are the only way that you can get an even exchange.

Three people told me that timesharing did not work out for them because you have to trade too far ahead.  They were not able to arrange time off with their employers as far in advance as needed to get a decent exchange.
The bottom line is that, while some people did very well in timesharing by arranging vacations well in advance, that often left people who had very, very good timeshares left picking up the leftovers (or, giving up altogther).

With this as a background, I can see two possible root causes to the current situation.

RCI is skimming in order to gain rentals.  (I have always said that this was a problem with the Weeks system.  It allows for an exchange company to do this.  Whether RCI is actually doing this cannot be known because everything happens behind a curtain of secrecy -- something that I have always argued against, but another poster says is what makes the system so strong.)

The second possibility is that RCI is trying to correct prior inbalances in which those who could reserve early were taking from those who could not.  If a system "overaverages" trading power (prior to the recent upheaval, I was interested in the posting by a knowledgeable TUGGER that suggested that there were only four levels of trading power), this is exactly what will occur. 

I am not definitely siding as to which of these two scenarios is true.  Within the secret Weeks system, one cannot tell.  

I am happy to see that Jennie, in here testimony in the RCI suit, essentially argued for a points based system.  It removes the secrecy.  People get to see exactly what their timeshare is being valued at.  Furthermore, everyone gets back what they put in.  If people question the valuation of a particular timeshare, they can see what is valued and buy accordingly.  (In line with some of Tombo's comments, how often have I seen people post that they would like to join points but they don't think that their own timeshare is given enough points to get what they want.  Everyone owns a prime week and what they trade into surely isn't worth more than what they own.)

Phew....


----------



## tombo

happymum said:


> My Carribean silver crown April week, deposited a year in advance,  is seeing 145000 units.
> 
> So what RCI is doing is no different than II's practise.



I am sure that some resorts on some islands can see more, and some can see less, but that seems like a fairly good trading power. St Maarten has a lot of timeshares and is relativelly easy to trade for, so you would expect lower overall trading power (yes I own a week there anyway). Aruba has more demand and less RCI availability. It is a hard trade to get which is why I  purchased a week here too and it rightfully should have high trading value. so not only where the week is determines the trading power, also the resort itself is a big factor. A silver crown 2 bed room on Aruba on the ocean should have more trading power than a 2 bed room ocean front in St Maarten.

Lesser Antilles availability:
Antigua and Barbuda  [43]  
Barbados  [9]  
Guadaloupe  [229]  
Martinique  [3]  
Saint Lucia  [1]  
St. Martin/Sint Maarten  [533]  
St. Vincent & The Grenadines  [16]  
Trinidad and Tobago  [80]  


Netherland Antilles (Aruba) total availability is 19 weeks using my good (not great) trader (not a single 2010 week available):

June 2009  [4]  
July 2009  [3]  
August 2009  [3]  
September 2009  [2]  
October 2009  [4]  
November 2009  [2]  
December 2009  [1]

Of course II does the same thing. They try and give the best trades to the best deposits. In fact Marriott owners get to exchange for Marriott inventory before other II members can. There is something to complain about. You pay the same as the Marriott owners to be a member, you pay the same amount to exchange your week, and yet you get the left over Marriott inventory the Marriott owners didn't want. Where is the outrage?


----------



## toby9116

*On going search*

Am I mistaken that on going search requests get priority and are filled as deposits come in? If this is in fact true why would there be a high demand deposit to see in a real time search?


----------



## rickandcindy23

pkfox said:


> Am I mistaken that on going search requests get priority and are filled as deposits come in? If this is in fact true why would there be a high demand deposit to see in a real time search?



Trading power still comes into play with ongoing searches.  You will be ignored and skipped right over with a request that isn't in your "league." 

I have a request for a Wyndham Shearwater week for February, which I started two months ago, and at that time, I could see 166K+ available weeks.  Now that same week sees far less, more like 144,000 today.  I know I won't get my exchange until it is too late.  The dates are important to me because it is my sister's 50th birthday, and this is her first trip to Kauai.  

I may have to find a rental.  I have SFX working on the exchange, and I am also watching Trading Places, TPMaui, and HTSE.  I have another TUGger watching for me, too.  I am getting a bit panicked, and it used to be me who assured people that 8 months was plenty of time..........  She would probably be okay with an exchange into Lawai Beach Resort, but I don't know about Pono Kai or something else for her dates. 

Perhaps my Westin/ Hanalei Bay Resort search will come through with II.  I can always hope, plus I have a friend who owns about ten Shearwater weeks.


----------



## Carolinian

waldvogelmj said:


> The whole rental thing doesn't make sense to me.  Let's say I own a Disney week and I deposit that with RCI, can they really turn around and just rent that to someone else?  Aren't they required by some agreement to exchange that with someone else for what they deposit?  Why would they exchange away any of the valuable weeks if they can get $3000 by renting that Disney week?  I find it hard to believe that they can do that.



It doesn't make sense for an HONEST business.  

Read Anon's posts in the link to TImesharetalk if you do not think RCI is up to its ears in skimming the best deposits and renting them out.  This guy was working at RCI and could see what was going on right on his computer.  Another RCI employee, Bootleg, posted similar info here.

One European timeshare chain, Seasons, jumped ship to II over RCI skimming weeks inventory for both its rentals and its points system.  They had a great article in a special edition of their newsletter that explained the evils of RCI's malpractices, firing a withering broadside at RCI  over both rentals and points as they escaped to II.


----------



## cr4909

pkfox said:


> Am I mistaken that on going search requests get priority and are filled as deposits come in? If this is in fact true why would there be a high demand deposit to see in a real time search?



Yes, the ongoing searches have not been part of the discussion.  From what I understand what we see as available on RCI's websites are the leftovers.  Any ongoing search will take 1st priority and we'll never see it as available on rci.com.  So there may be some weeks in very high demand areas (UK summer, the aforementioned Allen House, etc, etc) that will never show up because the waiting list far exceeds those who actually deposit those very high demand weeks.

Unfortunately, we have no way of verifying this and RCI doesn't publish what was taken during ongoing searches.  So all we can do is speculate.  The best thing you can do is to look at last-minute exchanges (within 3 weeks or so of check-in).  If you do this, you can see some very prime weeks that were cancelled at the last minute.  So I can assume that there are cases where people can snag these very high demand weeks, but we never see them.



rickandcindy23 said:


> Trading power still comes into play with ongoing searches.  You will be ignored and skipped right over with a request that isn't in your "league."


Of course this is true as well.  If you do an ongoing search you are going in blind and don't know if your actual requested trade is simply impossible based on trading power.  RCI should at least be upfront and tell you that you have no chance.  

As for rentals, who knows?  If we believe RCI these are developer weeks that they choose to put up as rentals for everybody to use.  If we believe the detractors at TUG, they are skimming the best weeks that were deposited by exchanges.  Either scenario is plausible.

That is why a points-based system (RCI, Wyndham, Worldmark, etc) is much preferable than an exchange system.  In a perfect world, RCI would have just one big points system, where everybody's week would be given a points value and would negate the need to convert a week into points.  But of course this would negate the need to cough up $$$$'s to the developer and put thousands of timeshare sales "people" (I'll be nice here) out of jobs because they won't be able to harass existing owners about converting their week into points.


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> Only sixteen one and two bedrooms are available in Summit County for July of 2010 at this moment, which is Breck, Dillon, and Frisco.  NONE are Silver Crown, all are regular old resorts.  I actually see more weeks in Colorado than you can see.
> 
> Don't underestimate the size of the Colorado Rocky Mountains.  These different areas are hugely distant from one another, and Summit County is always in low supply and high demand.



This is what I can see in Breckenridge, Dillon, and Frisco:
Breckenridge  [164]  

Dillon  [90]  

Frisco  [13]  

267 total weeks.

This is ALL I can see for ALL HAWAII RESORTS:
Honolulu  [14]  
Kailua-Kona  [59]  
Kapaa  [2]  
Lahaina  [38]  
Lihue  [20]  
Princeville  [71]  
Waikoloa  [32]  
 236 total weeks

June 2009  [1]  
July 2009  [8]  
August 2009  [2]  
September 2009  [10]  
October 2009  [6]  
November 2009  [12]  
December 2009  [28]  
January 2010  [13]  
February 2010  [4]  
March 2010  [6]  
April 2010  [11]  
May 2010  [16]  
June 2010  [7]  
July 2010  [3]  
August 2010  [10]  
September 2010  [21]  
October 2010  [18]  
November 2010  [32]  
December 2010  [19]  
January 2011  [6]  
February 2011  [2]  


There are more weeks available in Summitt County using my trade than all of Hawaii combined. Even more telling is that there are 16 one and 2 bed rooms available in one county in Colorado for July 2010, but there are a total of 3 available in all of hawaii in July of 2010. In fact combining July 2010 with August 2010 give me a total availability of 10 in all of hawaii.
June 2010  [7]  
July 2010  [3]  


If you factor in all of Colorado (everyone doesn't have to visit Summitt county, (every now and then Vail and Aspen will get a visitor) there are 1593 available weeks in Colorado, versus 236 total weeks available in all of Hawaii using the same trade. Which is a harder trade for me to get, Hawaii or Colorado? Which should have a higher trading value? 

I am glad that you have gotten many hawaii weeks for your Colorado weeks, but there never was any guarantee that those trades would continue. I can get peak times in colorado much easier than Peak times in Hawaii. i can get off season really easily in Colorado, but there really is no off season in Hawaii.
In all of the timeshare presentations I have attended I have never heard a salesman say that if i buy his week that I will be able to reade for Colorado in the summer. Every single salelsman has bragged that i could trade for the caribbean and hawaii with my purchase. Getting hawaii for almost anything other than a Hawaii deposit is a trade up IMO.


----------



## rickandcindy23

Yes, and my weeks are July 2010, also, and how many are there for Summit County?


----------



## toby9116

rickandcindy23 said:


> Trading power still comes into play with ongoing searches.  You will be ignored and skipped right over with a request that isn't in your "league."
> 
> I have a request for a Wyndham Shearwater week for February, which I started two months ago, and at that time, I could see 166K+ available weeks.  Now that same week sees far less, more like 144,000 today.  I know I won't get my exchange until it is too late.  The dates are important to me because it is my sister's 50th birthday, and this is her first trip to Kauai.
> 
> I may have to find a rental.  I have SFX working on the exchange, and I am also watching Trading Places, TPMaui, and HTSE.  I have another TUGger watching for me, too.  I am getting a bit panicked, and it used to be me who assured people that 8 months was plenty of time..........  She would probably be okay with an exchange into Lawai Beach Resort, but I don't know about Pono Kai or something else for her dates.
> 
> Perhaps my Westin/ Hanalei Bay Resort search will come through with II.  I can always hope, plus I have a friend who owns about ten Shearwater weeks.



I can maybe help with Pono Kai. If you can not get what you want.


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, and my weeks are July 2010, also, and how many are there for Summit County?



There are 84 total in colorado and 18 in Breckenridge and Dillon. There are only 3 available weeks in all of hawaii for July 2010 at 2 resorts which are both on the big island. None available for Mauai, none for Kauai, none for Oahau. If I was choosing limited availability i could compare 18 weeks available in Summitt county to 0 weeks available in all of hawaii (excluding the big island like you excluded all of Colorado but one county). 

Getting hawaii with a summer Colorado week is as I just showed you a trade up. 

--  Colorado 

  Date  
      July 2010 

  Search Type  
     Exchange  


Filter By 
 City  
Breckenridge  [13]  
Copper Mountain  [4]  
Dillon  [5]  
Keystone  [1]  
Mesa  [4]  
Silvercreek  [13]  
Steamboat Springs  [4]  
Vail  [18]  
Winter Park  [20]


----------



## rickandcindy23

I see more in Hawaii than you can see, I guess.  And when I could see 700 weeks in Hawaii, there were about the same number in Colorado that I see now.  AND Hawaii covers much more area than the Colorado Mountains. 

Seriously, why are we bickering, when we have all become victims of a change in RCI's policy:

*Trading Power - The value assigned by RCI to Inventory upon a Member's Deposit and used by RCI when attempting to fulfill an Exchange Request. Trading Power may vary from deposit to deposit, since inventory is re-evaluated by RCI from time to time. Trading Power changes over time and is based on: 
The demand, supply, classification grouping, and utilization of the Deposited Vacation Time, and the Affiliated Resort and geographic region associated with the Deposited Vacation Time.
The seasonal designation of the Deposited Vacation Time.
The size and type of the unit Deposited (i.e., number of bedrooms, kitchen type and Maximum/Private Occupancy of the physical unit).
The Comment Card Scores of the Affiliated Resort. RCI Comment Cards are solicited by RCI from Members as a means to gather information on each Affiliated Resort participating in the RCI Weeks Exchange Program.
The date of Deposit and the start date of the Deposited Vacation Time*

They changed their policy from allowing us the same trading power to changing it at their discretion.  How is that okay with anyone?  I think we are all on the same side here, Tombo, don't you think?


----------



## Carol C

Tombo, you're so smart about how RCI works that it makes me really glad you hate Europe. That leaves more European inventory for me! Now, if only I could make you change your mind about your desire for southern USA beachfront vacations! Hmmm, don't you just hate the bugs outside, the terrible humidity and the jellyfish in the ocean? :rofl:


----------



## bnoble

I suspect we'll be going aroung this particular mulberry bush for some time, but the facts on the ground are simple: trading power has been recalculated globally.  You can come up with some good arguments on both sides as to why, say summer Colorado is or isn't as desireable as, say, summer UK.  Doesn't matter.  It is what it is.  You can argue that they shouldn't have changed trade power for deposited weeks, because they never did in the past.  But of course they have done it before---it was done for SA weeks on Black Sunday.  You can argue that they shouldn't be renting out weeks, and you can even try to sue them to stop it, except that that's been done, the suit is near its last gasp, and unless something very surprising happens, it will reaffirm RCI's ability to use its deposits in any way it sees fit.

Getting worked up in all of these what's-right/what's-wrong arguments will not help you.  The right course for an educated timeshare owner is to (a) understand how RCI's policies and recent changes affect you, and (b) then decide how to allocate the weeks you own accordingly.  You can pull out of RCI out of a sense of right vs. wrong, but I'd argue that that is not necessarily in your best interests _if RCI still gets you trades you value more easily/less expensively than the alternatives._

That's the only question: do they come through for you in providing value to your ownership, or don't they.  For some people other exchange systems, personal use, or renting out will provide better value.  For others, RCI will still be an acceptable alternative.

From where I sit, as someone who owns weeks that were devalued in the recent adjustment, it is hard for me to be too upset---my weeks are nice weeks, but realistically they are not as valuable as summer oceanfront, downtown San Francisco, etc.  So, it seems fair that my weeks don't pull quite as well anymore as some of those, even though they did pull every bit as well before the recalculation.  That's the way the cookie crumbles.  

Rather than spend so much time and energy kvetching about RCI's evils, we'd all be better servied by talking about the alternatives, and how to make the best of them.  In the big picture, the rules of the exchange game are always changing, and each one of us has to make sure we keep up to get the best value we can.


----------



## Carolinian

The real key is working with our resorts to spread the word, both about what RCI has done, and about other options exchangers have.  We need to be proactive to help grow the competition.  When RCI has less of an oligopolistic grip on the industry, they will not be in the same position to steamroller members with shady practices.


----------



## tombo

Carol C said:


> Tombo, you're so smart about how RCI works that it makes me really glad you hate Europe. That leaves more European inventory for me! Now, if only I could make you change your mind about your desire for southern USA beachfront vacations! Hmmm, don't you just hate the bugs outside, the terrible humidity and the jellyfish in the ocean? :rofl:



Not claiming to be smart about RCI. I am simply using real examples to show that getting hawaii, DVC, HGVC, etc with some of our trades is something that takes hard work and luck. It is not something that we should expect to get whenever we want it with whatever trade we deposit. I will gladly admit that RCI is far from perfect, but it is better than any other trade company that the majority of my resorts can trade with right now IMO. 

I understand people being upset that they no longer can see the availability they used to, but to have only the upset side heard with no opposing views from some overall happy RCI member(s) would make it appear to all TUGGERS (especially newbies and guests) that RCI wasn't worth joining. It is worth it to me. For those who don't agree it is simple to quit and they will give you a pro-rated refund. 

Everyone feel free to complain about RCI, but just don't complain if I provide rebuttal to your complaints. I also will not be upset with follow ups to my rebuttals. Not trying to make anybody mad, just trying to show that many times people expect RCI to always be able to deliver  better exchanges than RCI can possibly provide to each and every member. 

Prime deposits are limited. Average and above average deposits not so limited. When most members want prime weeks, and few prime weeks are deposited, it is impossible for everyone who wants a prime week to get it. Of course everyone is  proud of their resort and they feel they should get access to Gold Crowns in Hawaii even though they deposited a silver crown at a resort (or area) with much less demand. That equation will never work out where all will get the exact trades they want. Simple supply and demand.

As far as southerrn vacations I never have trouble with mosquitoes if the resort is Oceanfront because the offshore breezes keep them inland. High humidity is why I like ocean front. 98% humidity in the air is no match for the 100% humidity I enjoy when i jump in the ocean. Jellyfish aren't usually a problem, but when they are there is always the pool. 

We'll make a deal. You can have all of the Europe weeks you can see and you leave me all of the Florida summer panhandle weeks you can see.  

P.S. I can be talked out of going to southern beaches every now and then for a trip to the Smokies or Blue Ridge Mountains.


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> They changed their policy from allowing us the same trading power to changing it at their discretion.  How is that okay with anyone?  I think we are all on the same side here, Tombo, don't you think?



We are on the same side as far as being members of RCI and wanting to get the best trades we can for our deposits. I think I am more realisitic in my expectations. I can find a trade somewhere that I will like at a resort I will enjoy. I do not pick a top resort at a top destination for a specific week and get mad if I can't get exactly what I want. I have had many wonderful trades over the years and by not being too picky I can usually get the week I need in a nice resort, even if the resort is not my first choice.

 I am going to Orlando in July. I have not seen one Disney week for the week I need. I have seen several DVC weeks I could have gotten but they were not for time I of the year I will be there. I was pleased to have seen any DVC inventory from my one bed room silver crown I deposited exactly 14 days before check-in because it didn't rent. I have not seen an HGVC week or a Bonnett Creek week that would work for me. I have seen some of those weeks but I need a specific week and none would work. Not mad. I have passed on Several Summer Bays, a couple of Sheraton Vistanas, and I have seen several OLCC's but I am unable to exchange thanks to 1 in 3 rule. 

I finally booked a vacation Village at the Parkway. In hindsight I would rather have had the Sheratons I passed up or the Summer Bays, but I was holding out for HGVC and got burned. Am I bitter, no. HGVC would have been great but VV at the Parkway looks like a nice resort. It is Gold crown and I got it for a silver crown last minute deposit. With no RCI I would have simply eaten my silver crown week. Thanks to RCI I get something for it. I am happy. I make RCI work for me.


I am pragmatic. I know that if I owned a DVC or a Bonnett Creek, none of you would ever see a week I owned deposited with RCI unless it wouldn't rent or I couldn't use it due to an emergency. If I did deposit it it would be last minute. I am amazed when I see those highly desired weeks in inventory. Same thing with Hawaii weeks. I used to own 3 different Hawaii weeks (sold just before the bust in 2008 due to sheer luck). I never deposited one with RCI and never would have. I used them myself or rented them. From my perspective I can't imagine there being much inventory from the top resortsd available on RCI because I can't imagine why those people would ever even consider depositing them rather than using them personally or renting them. Obviously some people do but i would think that they are the minority of owners. Most every TUGGER here says buy cheaper weeks to trade, never trade the top dollar weeks hoping to get something great in return.

I guess that I just never expect to see many of those top rated weeks when I do a search with the non top rated weeks I deposit, so I am not disappointed. Heck all of my best trading weeks always rent, even in this economy, so I never see what they would get if deposited. I am pleasantly surprised when I do see DVC, HGVC,Maui,Kauai, etc from deposits I made last minute because the week didn't rent. I also am almost always pleased with the trade I finally make even though it is rarely one of the Holy Grails of timeshares..

Many of you expect (in fact become indignant when you don't get) the top resorts at the highest demand locations even when you deposit resorts that aren't top rated and often deposit resorts that are not even in great locations or at peak times of the year. Your expectations are IMO unreasonable.

Some of you are disappointed by any trade you can't get. I am happy for the trades I can get. This is our main difference.


----------



## Charlie D.

Tombo,

Thank you for pointing out some pretty logical conclusions in this thread. I have never done a weeks exchange with RCI so don’t know that much about how the system works but it should work a lot closer to how it appears to be working now.  Put in a good week and get out a good week.  I think I have learned more about exchanging following this thread than any others I can remember. 

Charlie D.


----------



## Laurie

My strategy might be to sell some of what I own, and purchase elsewhere - I'll have to wait and see. 

It wouldn't be the first time - I've done that several times already, when I discovered that my anticipated trade power didn't pan out the way I had hoped/expected - or it changed - expectations based on:
- past experience
- TUG lore of supply & demand
- RCI shrinking its definition of "prime summer" by one more week
- VEP too high

etc.

Owning timeshares to trade is like owning stocks, and I try not to feel attached.


----------



## jamstew

Carolinian said:


> When the ''change'' seems to be hijacking exchange deposits for rentals, members have every right to be concerned.



Bingo! The loss of availability wouldn't bother me at all (or not nearly as much) if I didn't firmly believe that the lost exchanges went straight to the rental pool.


----------



## jamstew

Laurie said:


> Owning timeshares to trade is like owning stocks, and I try not to feel attached.



We bought where we wanted to stay, and did fairly regularly for the better part of 20 years, although we did trade several times. Week 31 was perfect until the kids were grown, but now there's no one who can use it. My daughter still lives 4 hours away and would if she could, but she's a collegiate Athletic Trainer, and her contract starts on August 1. I'd love to be able to work something out with the resort involving a week swap, but I can't get any response from them. I'd certainly be willing to pay something reasonable for an earlier summer week so my daughter and her family could use it.

I've added three DVC contracts, Christmas week in Vail, and an October beach week in Texas over the last year, all of which we'll use. The only thing left to trade is Sunbay. I don't have a plan right now for what to do next, but one thing it won't be is buying something strictly to trade.


----------



## deejay

tombo said:


> Some of you are disappointed by any trade you can't get. I am happy for the trades I can get. This is our main difference.



Tombo, I couldn't agree with you more. So much of exchanging is timing. Like you, sometimes I gamble and win, sometimes I gamble and  am not as lucky. But I don't think I ever lose. I have an outstanding trader that I was willing to pay for. And, I have an "ok" trader that i didn't pay a whole lot for. I've come to know their strengths, weaknesses and limitations. Believe me, when RCI is wrong, I let them know. But overall, I'm happy with the exchanges I get--both before, and even since the recent hiccups.


----------



## tombo

The loss of exchanges to rentals has been confirmed by an insider named anon. Anon won't reveal any details about himself, but we KNOW that this person has inside information because they told us so. We must all believe what he says to be the truth because people never lie on line.

I have a single friend who has internet dated quite a bit. So far he has online dated a beautiful 28 year old who ended up to actually be 50 when he met her. He has online dated  a model who was 5' 11'' and weighed 115 pounds. Real life shrunk her by 6 inches and increased her weight by about 100 pounds. His online girlfriend that I like the best ended up to be a man in real life.  

Anon might be for real. RCI might be renting weeks that were deposited for trade. Anon might simply be someone who hates RCI. We will probably never know for sure. I will take Anon and all other declarations about RCI stealing deposits to rent with a grain of salt. It might be true, it might not, but we will probably never know for sure.

Even if it is true that they are renting our weeks, you can live with it or quit. I will stay as long as I am getting trades that I like. If you don't want to remain with RCI on the chance that they are renting deposits, quit. If you no longer like what your deposits get for exchange, quit. If you decide to stay in RCI (like me), let's try to figure out what locations, resorts, and what times of year appear to trade the best for the average weeks most of us deposit. 

My goal is to make RCI work for me the best I can. I don't expect to get everything I want, but as long as I get enough good trades to make me happy, I will stick with RCI.


----------



## Conan

tombo said:


> ROLL TIDE ROLL



Congratulations Tombo, you have posted 16 replies to this one thread.


----------



## tombo

rklein001 said:


> Congratulations Tombo, you have posted 16 replies to this one thread.



Why thank you vey much for congratulating me. Is that a record?  Oops, now it is 17 posts.


----------



## Carolinian

There used to be a LOT more UK that showed up online, even for blue week deposits, than one sees now, even with prime deposits.  Searches are NOT an explanation for what has happened.

Inside information from RCI employees about the shifts to rentals of weeks deposited by members is NOT speculation.  See for example:

www.timesharetalk.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7761

RCI itself has even admitted moving exchange deposits they consider ''excess'' from the exchange pool to the rental pool.  Of course, they are the only ones who define ''excess''.  But guess what?  If you monkey around with trading power, it is easy to suddenly and arbitrarily create a whole lot more ''excess'' that you can then rent.  Do you understand the problem now?





cr4909 said:


> Yes, the ongoing searches have not been part of the discussion.  From what I understand what we see as available on RCI's websites are the leftovers.  Any ongoing search will take 1st priority and we'll never see it as available on rci.com.  So there may be some weeks in very high demand areas (UK summer, the aforementioned Allen House, etc, etc) that will never show up because the waiting list far exceeds those who actually deposit those very high demand weeks.
> 
> Unfortunately, we have no way of verifying this and RCI doesn't publish what was taken during ongoing searches.  So all we can do is speculate.  The best thing you can do is to look at last-minute exchanges (within 3 weeks or so of check-in).  If you do this, you can see some very prime weeks that were cancelled at the last minute.  So I can assume that there are cases where people can snag these very high demand weeks, but we never see them.
> 
> 
> Of course this is true as well.  If you do an ongoing search you are going in blind and don't know if your actual requested trade is simply impossible based on trading power.  RCI should at least be upfront and tell you that you have no chance.
> 
> As for rentals, who knows?  If we believe RCI these are developer weeks that they choose to put up as rentals for everybody to use.  If we believe the detractors at TUG, they are skimming the best weeks that were deposited by exchanges.  Either scenario is plausible.
> 
> That is why a points-based system (RCI, Wyndham, Worldmark, etc) is much preferable than an exchange system.  In a perfect world, RCI would have just one big points system, where everybody's week would be given a points value and would negate the need to convert a week into points.  But of course this would negate the need to cough up $$$$'s to the developer and put thousands of timeshare sales "people" (I'll be nice here) out of jobs because they won't be able to harass existing owners about converting their week into points.


----------



## Carolinian

Anon's bona fides were checked out by the owner of Timesharetalk, who asked Anon a series of questions about his own RCI account that only someone with access to RCI's computers could answer, and Anon came back with all of the correct answers.  He is what is says he is.

But it is not just Anon.  We had an RCI employee who posted here and on Timeshare Forums under the name Bootleg, who was quite helpful to many members here.  Shortly after the class action lawsuit was filed he suddenly disappeared from both boards.  Whether RCI was increasing its searches for employees who opened their mouths too much or whether he got caught, we will never know.  An archive of Bootleg's posts on TUG would be far more valuable than the archive of posts from ''Madge''.  When the issue of RCI rentals being taken from the exchange pool first came up, Bootleg initially defended the RCI party line, but as he was always a straight up guy, when he started seeing things that told him otherwise, he changed his position.  He posted on TUG and TS4MS that he could follow lots of prime deposits through RCI's computers, see that they had nothing to do with cruises, PFD, etc. and that they went straight into the rental pool although they had been deposited for exchange.

Personally, with his longtime presence on the boards and tremedous helpfulness to many posters, and the fact that when he thought RCI was right he would defend them strongly, I always had a higher comfort level with Bootleg.  But on this issue, the info from Bootleg and Anon is the same.




tombo said:


> The loss of exchanges to rentals has been confirmed by an insider named anon. Anon won't reveal any details about himself, but we KNOW that this person has inside information because they told us so. We must all believe what he says to be the truth because people never lie on line.
> 
> I have a single friend who has internet dated quite a bit. So far he has online dated a beautiful 28 year old who ended up to actually be 50 when he met her. He has online dated  a model who was 5' 11'' and weighed 115 pounds. Real life shrunk her by 6 inches and increased her weight by about 100 pounds. His online girlfriend that I like the best ended up to be a man in real life.
> 
> Anon might be for real. RCI might be renting weeks that were deposited for trade. Anon might simply be someone who hates RCI. We will probably never know for sure. I will take Anon and all other declarations about RCI stealing deposits to rent with a grain of salt. It might be true, it might not, but we will probably never know for sure.
> 
> Even if it is true that they are renting our weeks, you can live with it or quit. I will stay as long as I am getting trades that I like. If you don't want to remain with RCI on the chance that they are renting deposits, quit. If you no longer like what your deposits get for exchange, quit. If you decide to stay in RCI (like me), let's try to figure out what locations, resorts, and what times of year appear to trade the best for the average weeks most of us deposit.
> 
> My goal is to make RCI work for me the best I can. I don't expect to get everything I want, but as long as I get enough good trades to make me happy, I will stick with RCI.


----------



## Carolinian

Before we get too obsessed with ''crown'' status, maybe one should look up the requirements for this award status.  It might surprise you.  I provided a copy of the requirements, which RCI gives to its affiliated resorts, to TUG and it was posted in the advice section, with the help of another Tugger.  Comment cards scores on things like ''Unit Quality'' are NOT considered in crown status but things like ''Check-In/Out'' and ''Resort Hospitality'' are.

If you are really big on crown status, the exchange company to go for is SFX.

If wish I had saved the special issue of the Seasons chain of European timeshares when they announced their jumping ship to II and fired a withering broadside at RCI over rentals and points in explaining their decision. There was a link that could be posted for a year or so, but then it rotated off of the list of newsletters that were online on their site.  I would have liked to see you try to rebut that.  They even quoted numbers of how many rentals of exchange deposits RCI was doing at that time.  The article was extremely well written.





tombo said:


> Not claiming to be smart about RCI. I am simply using real examples to show that getting hawaii, DVC, HGVC, etc with some of our trades is something that takes hard work and luck. It is not something that we should expect to get whenever we want it with whatever trade we deposit. I will gladly admit that RCI is far from perfect, but it is better than any other trade company that the majority of my resorts can trade with right now IMO.
> 
> I understand people being upset that they no longer can see the availability they used to, but to have only the upset side heard with no opposing views from some overall happy RCI member(s) would make it appear to all TUGGERS (especially newbies and guests) that RCI wasn't worth joining. It is worth it to me. For those who don't agree it is simple to quit and they will give you a pro-rated refund.
> 
> Everyone feel free to complain about RCI, but just don't complain if I provide rebuttal to your complaints. I also will not be upset with follow ups to my rebuttals. Not trying to make anybody mad, just trying to show that many times people expect RCI to always be able to deliver  better exchanges than RCI can possibly provide to each and every member.
> 
> Prime deposits are limited. Average and above average deposits not so limited. When most members want prime weeks, and few prime weeks are deposited, it is impossible for everyone who wants a prime week to get it. Of course everyone is  proud of their resort and they feel they should get access to Gold Crowns in Hawaii even though they deposited a silver crown at a resort (or area) with much less demand. That equation will never work out where all will get the exact trades they want. Simple supply and demand.
> 
> As far as southerrn vacations I never have trouble with mosquitoes if the resort is Oceanfront because the offshore breezes keep them inland. High humidity is why I like ocean front. 98% humidity in the air is no match for the 100% humidity I enjoy when i jump in the ocean. Jellyfish aren't usually a problem, but when they are there is always the pool.
> 
> We'll make a deal. You can have all of the Europe weeks you can see and you leave me all of the Florida summer panhandle weeks you can see.
> 
> P.S. I can be talked out of going to southern beaches every now and then for a trip to the Smokies or Blue Ridge Mountains.


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> Anon's bona fides were checked out by the owner of Timesharetalk, who asked Anon a series of questions about his own RCI account that only someone with access to RCI's computers could answer, and Anon came back with all of the correct answers.  He is what is says he is.
> 
> But it is not just Anon.  We had an RCI employee who posted here and on Timeshare Forums under the name Bootleg, who was quite helpful to many members here.  Shortly after the class action lawsuit was filed he suddenly disappeared from both boards.  Whether RCI was increasing its searches for employees who opened their mouths too much or whether he got caught, we will never know.  An archive of Bootleg's posts on TUG would be far more valuable than the archive of posts from ''Madge''.  When the issue of RCI rentals being taken from the exchange pool first came up, Bootleg initially defended the RCI party line, but as he was always a straight up guy, when he started seeing things that told him otherwise, he changed his position.  He posted on TUG and TS4MS that he could follow lots of prime deposits through RCI's computers, see that they had nothing to do with cruises, PFD, etc. and that they went straight into the rental pool although they had been deposited for exchange.
> 
> Personally, with his longtime presence on the boards and tremedous helpfulness to many posters, and the fact that when he thought RCI was right he would defend them strongly, I always had a higher comfort level with Bootleg.  But on this issue, the info from Bootleg and Anon is the same.



 There is a good chance that neither Anon or bootleg are RCI employees. On the other hand Anon and bootleg both might be RCI employees, but they might be digruntled RCI employees with an ax to grind. As long as one attacks anonymously you will never know for sure because there is no way to verify. Yes they were supposedly asked questions, but they weren't investigated as though they were deep throat to verify their information. I actually don't doubt that RCI does pilfer some of the best inventory to rent. If they are, what are you going to do, and how are you going to prove it and make RCI stop? I would love to hear the plan and possibly join your crusade to stop them. If your plan is to simply quit then they will continue as always and you will no longer have access to the inventory they do make available for trade. If that is your plan count me out because I am not quitting until there is a better alternative. No reason to cut off my nose to spite my face.

The point I am making is whether they are renting our weeks or not you only have 2 choices unless you want to spend a LOT of money on legal fees. You can live with it and make the best use of RCI that you can, or you can quit. It is simple.


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> Before we get too obsessed with ''crown'' status, maybe one should look up the requirements for this award status.  It might surprise you.  I provided a copy of the requirements, which RCI gives to its affiliated resorts, to TUG and it was posted in the advice section, with the help of another Tugger.  Comment cards scores on things like ''Unit Quality'' are NOT considered in crown status but things like ''Check-In/Out'' and ''Resort Hospitality'' are.
> 
> If you are really big on crown status, the exchange company to go for is SFX. .



SFX has limited inventory in limited locations.  SFX only has 2 locations in the smokies (neither a favorite of mine). RCI has 23 locations in the Smokies. SFX has none in the Blue Ridge Mountains. RCI has 3 that I like a lot. On the Florida panhandle there are 2 resorts, and neither are on the ocean. RCI has 20 resorts on the panhandle, 10 are oceanfront. These are the drive to locations I frequent the most so SFX is useless to me in most cases. Like I have said repeatedly I will  not quit RCI until a better choice for me comes along.

I am not overly concerned with crown status, but when I make statements I try to back them up with examples whenever possible. In my post you are responding to I said prime deposits are limited. Prime deposits are not necessarilly gold crown,some are hard to get locations at a hard to get time of year. Factors to me of prime deposits include Crown Rating, location, time of year, member reviews, and size of unit. A Panama City Beach 2 bed room hospitality rated resort Ocean front in July with mostly positive reviews would be prime for me ,whereas a Panam City gold crown studio across the street from the ocean in February is something I wouldn't want at all. However if all other factors are equal (unit size, time of year, location) a Gold Crown resort will beat a non Gold Crown virtually every time.

I did say in that same post that a lot of people feel that they should get access to Gold Crowns in Hawaii with lesser trades. You love to jump on Gold Crowns as not being all that special. Now is a good time for you to use some examples to explain your point. Please peruse Hawaii and list the non rated resorts you would rather spend a week in over which gold crowns. On Oahu there are only 3 gold crown resorts, and all have excellent reviews. Some of the non rated resorts have 2 stars. Maui only has 2 gold crowns, and both are top resorts on the Island. The big Island has 8 gold crowns, and they are the top rated resorts on the island by member reviews with the exception of one which only has 3 stars. Kauai has 5 gold crowns and all have been rated tops with 4 or 5 stars. Lots of 3 stars for the non rated resorts. 

Yes I know the Shearwater is probably the hardest to get resort on Kauai and it is only silver crown. It is rated high in reviews because of the huge rooms and the great views from the cliffs. Shearwater lost Gold Crown because they need to do some renovations and upgrades since the resort is getting old. Even owners here on TUG bemoan the fact that the resort is becoming run down. This proves my point exactly. If you fail to maintain a resort well RCI will downgrade it's rating, even if it is the most desirable resort on the whole island.

I look forward to your list of which non rated resorts beat which gold crown resorts in Hawaii. I assume it will be a short list. I will be glad to follow it up with a long list of Gold Crown resorts on Hawaii that blow away many non rated, hospitality rated, and even Silver Crown rated resorts. Gold Crown doesn't gurantee you the best resort, but there are very few gold crown rated resorts that aren't very nice because if they don't remain nice, they don't remain Gold Crown.


----------



## tombo

rklein001 said:


> Congratulations Tombo, you have posted 16 replies to this one thread.



Please count Carolinian's posts. I am afraid that I am going to be passed and I don't want to lose the title.


----------



## Carolinian

Obviously you were not around when Bootleg was posting.  He was certainly not a disgruntled employee.  He helped a number of Tuggers with problems, some of whom had contact with him at RCI.  He generally was supportive of his employer, and came to their defense initially when the rental issue came up.  Then he started seeing things for himself, initially confided them to a Tugger in a private email, and then posted on the subject.  If you had been around on these boards when all of that went on, you would understand how ridiculous your suggestion that Bootleg was a disgruntled employee or someone trying to get back at RCI is.  Bootleg was generally supportive of his employer but I think was ashamed for them on what they were doing with rentals.

Also Anon posted some screen shots from RCI computers showing exchange deposits diverted to rentals.  I asked Bootleg to look at them to see if they appeared genuine, and he said that while they were compressed they did have all the right information in the right order as it would be on RCI computers.

You were also not around apparently to remember what I have always suggested as a remedy, and that is convincing a state AG to go after them under consumer protection statutes.  I bet they could bring them to heel with some of the pre-litigation tools availible to them that a private attorney would not have.  Unfortunately being politically active in the opposite party from my state's AG, I would have no influence to move that forward myself.  I was hopefully he would run for governor last election and someone from my party would get in, but he pulled out of the governor's race, so that did not happen.

Back to rentals, my home resort figured out how to identify the rentals on the RCI inbound reports, and what they were renting was almost all high season and were exchange deposits.  The developer is long gone from all but the 3 BIS resorts on the OBX, and should be gone from 2 of those, so any rental you see outside of BIS on the OBX is NOT developer inventory.  Also no HOA's have been depositing with RCI for years since they changed the rules on HOA deposits.  Dunes South was the last resort HOA that did it to any extent and that was back in the 1990s.





tombo said:


> There is a good chance that neither Anon or bootleg are RCI employees. On the other hand Anon and bootleg both might be RCI employees, but they might be digruntled RCI employees with an ax to grind. As long as one attacks anonymously you will never know for sure because there is no way to verify. Yes they were supposedly asked questions, but they weren't investigated as though they were deep throat to verify their information. I actually don't doubt that RCI does pilfer some of the best inventory to rent. If they are what are you going to do and how are you going to prove it and make RCI stop? I would love to hear the plan and possibly join your crusade to stop them If your plan is to simply quit then they will continue as always and you will no longer have access to the inventory they do make available for trade. If that is your plan count me out because I am not quitting until there is a better alternative. No reason to cut of my nose to spite my face.
> 
> The point I am making is whether they are renting our weeks or not you only have 2 choices unless you want to spend a LOT of money on legal fees. You can live with it and make the best use of RCI that you can, or you can quit. It is simple.


----------



## Carolinian

I have been to Hawaii once in my life.  As to islands, I prefer the Caribbean.

However, to give you an example, some here fall all over themselves about DVC.  When I was searching for HHI, I put in a request with DAE and they came up with a unit at DVC on HHI.  I checked it out, found out I had to drive to the beach, and said no thanks.  I found an unrated resort at RCI where I could at least walk a short distance to the beach and booked that one instead.  For me an unrated resort on the beach, or at least close enough to the beach to walk always beats a GC where I have to drive to the beach.  And I am not the only one.  For some years BIS-Kitty Hawk was the only GC on the OBX (that has changed with the latest award list), but according to the local timeshare specialist rental / resale agency was by far the lowest demand resort on the OBX on the rental market.  The reason was that it was one of two resorts where one had to drive to the beach.  From what I saw online, it certainly appeared that the exchange market followed the rental market.  On the OBX, all of the oceanfront unrated resorts, which is most of them, beat what was the only GC on the OBX.  Now one of the oceanfront resorts, OBBC II is back to GC, while BIS-Kitty Hawk has fallen to SC. 



tombo said:


> SFX has limited inventory in limited locations.  SFX only has 2 locations in the smokies (neither a favorite of mine). RCI has 23 locations in the Smokies. SFX has none in the Blue Ridge Mountains. RCI has 3 that I like a lot. On the Florida panhandle there are 2 resorts, and neither are on the ocean. RCI has 20 resorts on the panhandle, 10 are oceanfront. These are the drive to locations I frequent the most so SFX is useless to me in most cases. Like I have said repeatedly I will  not quit RCI until a better choice for me comes along.
> 
> I am not overly concerned with crown status, but when I make statements I try to back them up with examples whenever possible. In my post you are responding to I said prime deposits are limited. Prime deposits are not necessarilly gold crown,some are hard to get locations at a hard to get time of year. Factors to me of prime deposits include Crown Rating, location, time of year, member reviews, and size of unit. A Panama City Beach 2 bed room hospitality rated resort Ocean front in July would be prime for me ,whereas a Panam City gold crown studio across the street from the ocean in February is something I wouldn't want at all. However if all other factors are equal (unit size, time of year, location) a Gold Crown resort will beat a non Gold Crown virtually every time.
> 
> I did say in that same post that a lot of people feel that they should get access to Gold Crowns in Hawaii with lesser trades. You love to jump on Gold Crowns as not being all that special. Now is a good time for you to use some examples to explain your point. Please peruse Hawaii and list the non rated resorts you would rather spend a week in over which gold crowns. On Oahu there are only 3 gold crown resorts, and all have excellent reviews. Some of the non rated resorts have 2 stars. Maui only has 2 gold crowns, and both are top resorts on the Island. The big Island has 8 gold crowns, and they are the top rated resorts on the island by member reviews with the exception of one which only has 3 stars. Kauai has 5 gold crowns and all have been rated tops with 4 or 5 stars. Lots of 3 stars for the non rated resorts.
> 
> Yes I know the Shearwater is probably the hardest to get resort on Kauai and it is only silver crown. It is rated high in reviews because of the huge rooms and the great views from the cliffs. Shearwater lost Gold Crown because they need to do some renovations and upgrades because the resort is getting old. Even owners here on TUG bemoan the fact that the resort is becoming run down. This proves my point exactly. If you fail to maintain a resort well RCI will downgrade it's rating, even if it is the most desirable resort on the whole island.
> 
> I look forward to your list of which non rated resorts beat which gold crown resorts in Hawaii. I assume it will be a short list. I will be glad to follow it up with a long list of Gold Crown resorts on Hawaii that blow away many non rated, hospitality rated, and even Silver Crown rated resorts. Gold Crown doesn't gurantee you the best resort, but there are very few gold crown rated resorts that aren't very nice because if they don't remain nice, they don't remain Gold Crown.


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## sandkastle4966

On-going searches.....


Somewhere in this thread was a question/comment on "searches" - they only have priority "in their trade tier" AND whenever the "match algorythm" runs.  It is NOT run at the instant that the deposit goes in.

I have found a suitable unit by going in just searching on another week, and then "running" the on-going search and having it match up.  (These are daily - I am getting desparate checks, and thus are "new deposits/cancellations, downtrade of trade power, passed some magical date, etc)


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> You were also not around apparently to remember what I have always suggested as a remedy, and that is convincing a state AG to go after them under consumer protection statutes.  I bet they could bring them to heel with some of the pre-litigation tools availible to them that a private attorney would not have.  Unfortunately being politically active in the opposite party from my state's AG, I would have no influence to move that forward myself.  I was hopefully he would run for governor last election and someone from my party would get in, but he pulled out of the governor's race, so that did not happen.
> 
> Back to rentals, my home resort figured out how to identify the rentals on the RCI inbound reports, and what they were renting was almost all high season and were exchange deposits.  The developer is long gone from all but the 3 BIS resorts on the OBX, and should be gone from 2 of those, so any rental you see outside of BIS on the OBX is NOT developer inventory.  Also no HOA's have been depositing with RCI for years since they changed the rules on HOA deposits.  Dunes South was the last resort HOA that did it to any extent and that was back in the 1990s.



I do not doubt that they steal deposits to rent. I would hope that it would not be on a huge scale, but it might be. If there is a group writing to an AG to stop the practice more power to them. If it is in my state, or a state where I own a timeshare, I will join the complaint. Getting a big enough group together to get an AG's attention is hard, getting the AG to sue RCI is even harder. Until that happens we will have to live with the system that is in place or quit. I still like the trades I get overall and don't want to quit. 

Let me know which AG we are all writing to and list the address. Please make sure to subpoena Anon and Bootleg because other than real people who have real proof it is very hard to win in court on conjectures and allegations. Of course it is pretty easy to convict RCI on TUG with the same conjectures and allegations that would be thrown out of court because of lack of proof.


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## tombo

sandkastle4966 said:


> On-going searches.....
> 
> 
> Somewhere in this thread was a question/comment on "searches" - they only have priority "in their trade tier" AND whenever the "match algorythm" runs.  It is NOT run at the instant that the deposit goes in.
> 
> I have found a suitable unit by going in just searching on another week, and then "running" the on-going search and having it match up.  (These are daily - I am getting desparate checks, and thus are "new deposits/cancellations, downtrade of trade power, passed some magical date, etc)



I have 2 different deposits with considerably different trading value. Sometimes I can see the same things with both trades and sometimes the better trader will show many more available trades than I can see with the weaker trade for the same area. If you keep the search the same and simply change deposit the difference in what you see can be huge.


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## jdetar

Crowns are usually a good indicator of quality, but sometimes resorts aren't crowns when they are in fact, top notch resorts that easily surpass many gold crowns. Right off the top of my head there's at least one in RCI that has no crown or hospitality, but is in the TUG top 30, and an Interal premier resort. Can you guess it? It's well known...


Trading power is determined by computer systems. They do an intense amount of data mining and dynamic calculations to determine a "fair" trading power. Sometimes, especially international resorts, aren't rated fairly. The computer systems simply do what they're programmed to do, and that's it. If they're lacking certain programming requirements and optimizations to take some things into consideration, a resort or deposit may experience significantly reduced trading power based on incorrect factors. I'm sure some resorts deserved the reduced trading power they received, but not all of them.


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## rickandcindy23

jdetar, I know of one that is Premiere with II and nothing with RCI, and that is Cypress Harbour, which is Marriott's Cypress Harbour.  

And you know the oddity is that you will never see an exchange with a lower trading week for Cypress Harbour through RCI, but ANY blue week will pull a Hilton, sometimes 2 bedrooms, too.  RCI is messed up!  

RCI has other Marriotts in Orlando as Hospitality rated, too.


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## jdetar

Yep, and RCI offers the same few weeks that come up on exchange, for rent for $335 so "first come first serve". But seriously, who in their right mind would exchange into Cypress Harbour when you can rent the same week for that price? More importantly though, it's the same inventory and RCI shares that inventory across their systems which is an unfair advantage to RCI, and an unfair advantage to what made their business, which is exchangers.


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## jamstew

*Convert devalued fixed week to points? Is that a strategy?*

I'm wondering, with my reduced trading power, if it might be worthwhile to convert to points. I have a fixed red week that none of the family can use, and the trades for the areas we want are greatly diminished. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of converting? (Moderators, please feel free to move this if it needs to be somewhere else.)


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## Carolinian

jamstew said:


> I'm wondering, with my reduced trading power, if it might be worthwhile to convert to points. I have a fixed red week that none of the family can use, and the trades for the areas we want are greatly diminished. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of converting? (Moderators, please feel free to move this if it needs to be somewhere else.)



I would change exchange companies.  RCI's points system stinks, with rigged point values and a tendency to move the goal posts on many of its ''benefits'', air tickets for example.  Plus they rent out that inventory, too!


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## Carolinian

*Wychnor Park - example of rental vs exchange*

Here is the current availibility for both exchange and rental at Wychnor Park in England (against a summer UK week).  It is clear in both quantity and quality, the rentals prevail over the exchange inventory.

But most perhaps all of these deposits would have been exchange deposits by individual owners.  The resort was purchased years ago by Sunterra (now DRI) which for years has sold inventory here in its own internal points system that trades in II.  If there was any developer deposits they would be in II, not RCI.  Most, if not all, of the fixed week owners bought from the original developer, who largely marketed to local people as ''a country club that is also a timeshare'' and many of those are now getting on in years and not likely to be playing PFD.

This is clearly an example of exchange deposits being skimmed for rental purposes.

The rental prices are also interesting.  For someone with an m/f of a bit over $600, a rental here is in the range of m/f pls exchange fee for some quite decent weeks.  Why own and exchange when you can just rent? The strategy is forget about exchanges with RCI.  Use Rental Condominiums International for their rentals!



 Unit Type Max Occup
(Privacy) Kitchen Check-In Date Check-Out Date Price 
  1 BR 4 (4) Full 12-Feb-2011 19-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  1 BR 4 (4) Full 26-Feb-2011 05-Mar-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 22-Jan-2011 29-Jan-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 08-Aug-2009 15-Aug-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 22-Aug-2009 29-Aug-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 29-Aug-2009 05-Sep-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 05-Sep-2009 12-Sep-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 12-Sep-2009 19-Sep-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 19-Sep-2009 26-Sep-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 26-Sep-2009 03-Oct-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 03-Oct-2009 10-Oct-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 10-Oct-2009 17-Oct-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 17-Oct-2009 24-Oct-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 24-Oct-2009 31-Oct-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 31-Oct-2009 07-Nov-2009 $773.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 15-Dec-2009 22-Dec-2009 $899.99 
  2 BR 6 (6) Full 22-Dec-2009 29-Dec-2009 $899.99


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## "Roger"

Carolinian said:


> ...The resort was purchased years ago by Sunterra (now DRI) ....


Just an observation...  the most egregious examples of RCI rentals have always been Sunterra (now DRI) properties.  A couple of years ago, it was Walt's Sunterra Embassy in Maui.  This was cited as proof positive of the fact that RCI deposits were being rented.  After that it was (sorry, my memory fails me at this point, but there two other Sunterra resorts). Now it is Wychor in England.  

I know that I commented on this pattern in the past and it has always been passed off (not by Carolinian - he has never to my knowledge commented on this topic) as mere coincidence - just happenstance.  Personally I am suspicious as to whether it is coincidence - happenstance.


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## rickandcindy23

jamstew said:


> I'm wondering, with my reduced trading power, if it might be worthwhile to convert to points. I have a fixed red week that none of the family can use, and the trades for the areas we want are greatly diminished. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of converting? (Moderators, please feel free to move this if it needs to be somewhere else.)



Don't pay a lot to convert your week to points.  Are you talking about using your week as Points for Deposit, or are you talking about converting your week, and what would that cost you?  

VRI charges an outrageous price to convert Foxrun weeks to points, but many people have done it.  I think it would be a huge mistake, personally.


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## jamstew

rickandcindy23 said:


> Don't pay a lot to convert your week to points.  Are you talking about using your week as Points for Deposit, or are you talking about converting your week, and what would that cost you?
> 
> VRI charges an outrageous price to convert Foxrun weeks to points, but many people have done it.  I think it would be a huge mistake, personally.



I have absolutely no idea about the cost.  It's nothing I've ever even thought about before, and I have little to no understanding of points. I _think_ I'm talking about converting my week, but from some things I've read, it probably isn't a good idea. I can still get good exchanges, just not as good as before.


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## triron

*RCI strategy*

*Let RCI know what great weeks you have by offering them up for exchange *and have the guides check to see what Hawaii inventory you can get.  

For example: Say you own a Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 bedroom lockout and have April 2nd of 2010 reserved (Easter week and prime week for RCI), and can you get Hawaii with that week?  What can you offer me in Hawaii, or ask about Disney Vacation Club resorts, 2 bedrooms, then say I am flexible.  When they say, there are Hilton 2 beds in Hawaii, or a two-bedroom at Saratoga Springs, or whatever they offer, you just say, "Well, I don't want to finalize my deposit right now, so please pull it back."  OR I will deposit just half of my lockout, then ask them to confirm that 2 bedroom DVC or Hawaii week, on the phone.  This will require sightings from TUG members of availability in the prime areas.  
*Now RCI knows you own that week, and it is now in your account under Deposit Your Week* (this always happens when you pull back a week).  They will want it and will call you back sometime in the next several months to get that week.  Just tell them you don't trust them with your best weeks because your other weeks lost trading power during the late May-early June 2009 "enhancement".  :[/B]D 



Tried your strategy but RCI representative would not do a search without depositing and said that once you deposit a week you cannot request it back.  I still cannot believe that RCI would make such a major change in the trading power of my account without any notice or explanation under the cover of an update to their operating system.  I have also been told several stories on why my exchange week has lost trading power so I will try again tomorrow with another representative.  Reminds me of an old joke:  What's the difference between a RCI explanation/answer and a Fairy Tale?  The Fairy Tale starts with "Once upon a time".

I like your ideas on dealing with RCI in the future.  Thank you.[/I][/I]


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## Carolinian

The main new strategy is to remember that RCI now effectively stands for ''Rental Condominiums International''.  They do have some decent, some good, and some very good deals on rentals.  Keep your membership and use them to rent.  Give your exchange deposits to someone else.  If a site with the same rental deals appears for non-members (SkyAuction doesn't seem to have the breadth of inventory) then use it and quit paying membership.


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## rickandcindy23

Tiron, call back again and speak to someone else, and yes, you absolutely can pull the week back right away, once you deposit it.  Don't let them tell you that.  One member here, Culli, pulled his week back after 2 weeks, when the trading power of his week went down from 166K total weeks available to 138K.  They CAN do it, and THEY WILL do it.  The only risk you run is that an ongoing search will pick up your week immediately, but I doubt that would happen so quickly.


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## jdetar

As a side comment, I agree RCI's ongoing searches seem to fill much slower. I don't know why but it appears the systems in Interval are different, and inventory is held back with them. I've had my requests filled two years in a row the first night of the search. And they were good exchanges into Marriott Ko Olina 2BR, and Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2BR with my Cypress Harbour sport week. But yet doing a manual search showed me nothing even close to my requests the day before. Surprisingly good.. but weird too!


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## Carolinian

Here is another non-points resort, Hotel Deutschmeister in Vienna, with a great location, 2 blocks outside the ring, in one of the world's great cities.  Again compare rentals and exchanges.  And look at the rental rates.  If you are in the market for a rental, Rental Condominiums International comes through again!  The rental price is below most timeshare owners m/f, without even considering the exchange fee.

meet your criteria Total Units Available: 14 
   Unit Type Max Occup
(Privacy) Kitchen Check-In Date Check-Out Date Price 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 17-Oct-2009 24-Oct-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 24-Oct-2009 31-Oct-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 31-Oct-2009 07-Nov-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 07-Nov-2009 14-Nov-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 14-Nov-2009 21-Nov-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 21-Nov-2009 28-Nov-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 28-Nov-2009 05-Dec-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 05-Dec-2009 12-Dec-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Dec-2009 19-Dec-2009 $440.99 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 13-Nov-2010 20-Nov-2010 Exchange Fee Only 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 08-Jan-2011 15-Jan-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 29-Jan-2011 05-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Feb-2011 19-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only 
  Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 19-Feb-2011 26-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only


----------



## Mel

Carolinian said:


> meet your criteria Total Units Available: 14
> Unit Type Max Occup
> (Privacy) Kitchen Check-In Date Check-Out Date Price
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 17-Oct-2009 24-Oct-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 24-Oct-2009 31-Oct-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 31-Oct-2009 07-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 07-Nov-2009 14-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 14-Nov-2009 21-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 21-Nov-2009 28-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 28-Nov-2009 05-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 05-Dec-2009 12-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Dec-2009 19-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 13-Nov-2010 20-Nov-2010 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 08-Jan-2011 15-Jan-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 29-Jan-2011 05-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Feb-2011 19-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 19-Feb-2011 26-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only


But there is only one unit in all of 2010, and none are during high demand times.  While I can see there is very little availability, and I suspect a certain amount of demand, I don't see this particular resort as being a good example of RCI pludering.  The weeks that are available as rentals are all hotel units, and with check-n less than 6 months away.

None of us know the history of requests for this resort - it may be that historical data shows requests for the off-season weeks don't usually come in less than 6 months out, particularly for hotel-size units.  Perhaps the only requests they are likely to see for these units will be under 45 days, and they would rather see them rent to someone NOW for $400 than wait and "rent" it to a points member for 9000 points (which costs the point owner less than $400, and obviousl creates less revenue for RCI).


----------



## Carolinian

Mel said:


> But there is only one unit in all of 2010, and none are during high demand times.  While I can see there is very little availability, and I suspect a certain amount of demand, I don't see this particular resort as being a good example of RCI pludering.  The weeks that are available as rentals are all hotel units, and with check-n less than 6 months away.
> 
> None of us know the history of requests for this resort - it may be that historical data shows requests for the off-season weeks don't usually come in less than 6 months out, particularly for hotel-size units.  Perhaps the only requests they are likely to see for these units will be under 45 days, and they would rather see them rent to someone NOW for $400 than wait and "rent" it to a points member for 9000 points (which costs the point owner less than $400, and obviousl creates less revenue for RCI).



This resort has very little except hotel units.  It is and urban timeshare in one of the world's great cities and rightfully red all year (like London, New York, Venice, San Francisco, Paris, Prague) and the only RCI resort there.  As a weeks-only resort, two thirds of the avaibilitiy being rentals instead of exchanges and the rentals being the better seasons shows a very clear pattern.

But you seem to miss one thing.  Rental Condominiums International has got some real decent rental rates here and at decent times.  Why bother to own and exchange when you can rent like this!  Have you noticed that in its press releases for a while, RCI has described itself as a ''rental and exchange company''?  It is clear where their priorities are when they put rental first in that description.


----------



## pranas

tombo said:


> Please count Carolinian's posts. I am afraid that I am going to be passed and I don't want to lose the title.



But Carolians's post are so much more substantive.  I have learned a lot from reading his posts over the years including those in this thread.


----------



## Egret1986

*Everybody's got an opinion on TUG!*



pranas said:


> But Carolians's post are so much more substantive.  I have learned a lot from reading his posts over the years including those in this thread.



I definitely enjoy much of what Tombo has to say.  He has provided me with help and information and enlightenment many times both directly and in reading his posts.

More "substantive"?  I've found if you are open to what folks have to say, "substantive" is in the mind of the beholder. 

I kind of expected to see a green toothy smiley face after your statement.   Carolinian and Tombo are just two long-time TUGGERs agreeing to disagree, but both have something to say worth considering.  You might not agree with what someone has to say, but it doesn't necessarily make it any less "substantive" IMHO.


----------



## Jwerking

bnoble said:


> If I recall, at the end of that discussion we decided that the Allen House deposit *was* seeing nearly everything that anyone else saw during its window----the reason it had a comparatively low number is that it could only search a shorter window.




I agree with Tombo.  While I don't like losing trading power for my deposited RCI weeks any more than anyone else - my playing around online with my weeks yesterday generally shows fair trading power.  

I own lockoff weeks in a Gold Crown Hilton Head week - one is in mid-May and the other is a July 4th week - always deposited about 2 yrs in advance as a studio and 1 Br.  These weeks now show diff availability and correctly so - where before the enhancement, they all traded the same.  

It is sad that my best week, the July 4th 1 br unit, will not likely allow me the upgrade to 2 BR units - which I always did in the past with no problem.  I did searches yesterday for high demand winter Caribbean and Mexican beach resorts.  I could see very few 2 BR units at the Mexican resorts - but no problems with seeing 1 br units at these prime and high quality resorts.  With my July studio, I could not see the 2br units at all, but did see most of the 1 br units, but not all.  

For my May weeks, the trading power was significantly less.  Seeing almost nothing for my May studio in the Caribbean.   But I did see very good winter units in Mexico beach resorts - which are more plentiful  - but only hotel units or studios.  

So basically, it is fair.  It appears that I am able to trade into comparable resorts with comparable demand to what I own.  No longer able to rob the RCI bank of all those larger 2 br units anymore.  It was great the 15+ years I have been able to do this - but reality has set in.  Let's admit, it was unfair that I was able to lock off a 2br with maint fee of $800 and trade each side for a 2br unit in a prime resort during prime season.  We were all taking an advantage of a loophole in the RCI system - one that has been closed. 

So Tombo is right - I don't sympathize with all those people that deposited even more mediocre weeks than mine and were robbing the RCI bank.  No personal offense, Cindy, but I have heard about those Foxrun weeks here on TUG years ago and the recommendation to purchase because they traded well and were cheap.  So let's admit, aren't summer beach weeks in higher demand than a mountain week?  We typically have to pay higher prices to purchase those beach weeks and have higher maint fees.  And all the hype with the South Africa weeks, honestly, I purchased some of those when they are the big topic on TUG and they did well for quite a while until Black Sunday - but they costs a few hundred dollars to purchase and had maint fees of $ 200 to 300.  I certainly got my use out of them for my small investment and was lucky to sell them to a SA reseller for a few hundred $$ and recouped some of my original investment.  

Believe me, when you deposit your Foxrun with II, it will certainly recognize it as a lesser demand week than a beach week.  I own Marriott summer weeks at Park City, Utah, and believe me they do not trade great thru II.  Much less trading power than my Marriott spring beach weeks at Hilton Head.  Now for sure, Park City definitely is overbuilt versus NC mountains - so maybe your trading power will be higher, but I seriously doubt it.  

So yes, maybe there is some truth that RCI did violate their rule that trading power is determined at the time of deposit - you have a valid point there.  But from a technical perspective, it would have been costly if not impossible for them to implement an IT system to accomodate two different sets of criteria.  As we can all see, they are having problems with what they have currently done. 

Talk about unfair, I purchased my Marriott Hilton Head timeshares from the developer - mostly to have the Marriott rewards point option and they have made MAJOR revisions twice in that program in the past 10 years that have seriously undermined the value of those reward points.   And we paid big $$ to purchase those timeshares and pay big maint fees to boot.  So little sympathy from me.  

So how can we fault RCI for setting up a trading system that is more equitable?


----------



## Carolinian

First, your comparision is a bit off.  Mexico's supply / demand curve is not that great - certainly no where comparable to southern summer beach.  A IBR July 4th HHI should get about anything in Mexico.  I look at RCI's own availibility tables which are published in the European version of its directory, and which give overall availibility month by month for resort areas.  NO month in Mexico falls within the two categories of the most limited inventory, while 9 months fall under the most wide open availibility and 3 months (Jan.-Mar.) under the second most open category of availibility.  Given that, a studio HHI July 4th would likely outrank any 2BR in Mexico.  You were never really ''upgrading'' when you look at the totality of factors in going from a 1BR HHI GC to a Mexico 2BR in winter.

And this is NOT about making a system more fair for members.  It is all about slicing and dicing the system to harvest more ''excess'' for RCI to rent out.  Having we learned what RCI is really all about?  Their own press releases describe themselves as a ''rental and exchange system'' and the order they choose to put those two activities in speaks volumes.

The amount of maintenance fees have nothing to do with supply and demand.  A January beach week pays the same m/f as a July week, yet their supply / demand curves are light years apart.  Similarly when you look at foreign m/f's they are impacted by exchange rates and by costs of doing business where the resort is located, factors that have absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand in a timeshare exchange system.  Australia was once a cheap place to buy and pay m/f's when the Oz dollar was in the toilet, and many points people took advantage of that, but then the Oz $ soared in comparision to the US $ and suddenly the shoe was on the other foot.  Did that vast change in the exchange rate mean there was a vast change in supply and demand for Oz timeshare exchange weeks?  Of course not!

I ask you, is it ''equitable'' for RCI to rent out exchange deposits to the general public when there are bona fide dues paid RCI members who would like to trade for them?  That is exactly whose interests Rental Condominiums International is serving with this new scam of theirs.  I hope they are getting a bit ahead of themselves.  I hope that the judge in the class action suit rejects the outrageous sellout-settlement and the case goes to trial.  This whole rental policy of RCI is a massive conflict of  interest that causes them to knife their members in the back.  TS4MS members have concluded that a minimum of 10,000 and a maximum of 20,000 of the better weeks simply disappeared in this ''enhancement'' (a word that is corporate speak for screwing customers) based on comparisions of regular searches.  Where did they go?  Can you say ''R-E-N-T-A-L  P-O-O-L''?





Jwerking said:


> I agree with Tombo.  While I don't like losing trading power for my deposited RCI weeks any more than anyone else - my playing around online with my weeks yesterday generally shows fair trading power.
> 
> I own lockoff weeks in a Gold Crown Hilton Head week - one is in mid-May and the other is a July 4th week - always deposited about 2 yrs in advance as a studio and 1 Br.  These weeks now show diff availability and correctly so - where before the enhancement, they all traded the same.
> 
> It is sad that my best week, the July 4th 1 br unit, will not likely allow me the upgrade to 2 BR units - which I always did in the past with no problem.  I did searches yesterday for high demand winter Caribbean and Mexican beach resorts.  I could see very few 2 BR units at the Mexican resorts - but no problems with seeing 1 br units at these prime and high quality resorts.  With my July studio, I could not see the 2br units at all, but did see most of the 1 br units, but not all.
> 
> For my May weeks, the trading power was significantly less.  Seeing almost nothing for my May studio in the Caribbean.   But I did see very good winter units in Mexico beach resorts - which are more plentiful  - but only hotel units or studios.
> 
> So basically, it is fair.  It appears that I am able to trade into comparable resorts with comparable demand to what I own.  No longer able to rob the RCI bank of all those larger 2 br units anymore.  It was great the 15+ years I have been able to do this - but reality has set in.  Let's admit, it was unfair that I was able to lock off a 2br with maint fee of $800 and trade each side for a 2br unit in a prime resort during prime season.  We were all taking an advantage of a loophole in the RCI system - one that has been closed.
> 
> So Tombo is right - I don't sympathize with all those people that deposited even more mediocre weeks than mine and were robbing the RCI bank.  No personal offense, Cindy, but I have heard about those Foxrun weeks here on TUG years ago and the recommendation to purchase because they traded well and were cheap.  So let's admit, aren't summer beach weeks in higher demand than a mountain week?  We typically have to pay higher prices to purchase those beach weeks and have higher maint fees.  And all the hype with the South Africa weeks, honestly, I purchased some of those when they are the big topic on TUG and they did well for quite a while until Black Sunday - but they costs a few hundred dollars to purchase and had maint fees of $ 200 to 300.  I certainly got my use out of them for my small investment and was lucky to sell them to a SA reseller for a few hundred $$ and recouped some of my original investment.
> 
> Believe me, when you deposit your Foxrun with II, it will certainly recognize it as a lesser demand week than a beach week.  I own Marriott summer weeks at Park City, Utah, and believe me they do not trade great thru II.  Much less trading power than my Marriott spring beach weeks at Hilton Head.  Now for sure, Park City definitely is overbuilt versus NC mountains - so maybe your trading power will be higher, but I seriously doubt it.
> 
> So yes, maybe there is some truth that RCI did violate their rule that trading power is determined at the time of deposit - you have a valid point there.  But from a technical perspective, it would have been costly if not impossible for them to implement an IT system to accomodate two different sets of criteria.  As we can all see, they are having problems with what they have currently done.
> 
> Talk about unfair, I purchased my Marriott Hilton Head timeshares from the developer - mostly to have the Marriott rewards point option and they have made MAJOR revisions twice in that program in the past 10 years that have seriously undermined the value of those reward points.   And we paid big $$ to purchase those timeshares and pay big maint fees to boot.  So little sympathy from me.
> 
> So how can we fault RCI for setting up a trading system that is more equitable?


----------



## Lisa P

Jwerking said:


> I own lockoff weeks in a Gold Crown Hilton Head week - one is in mid-May and the other is a July 4th week - always deposited about 2 yrs in advance as a studio and 1 Br.  These weeks now show diff availability and correctly so - where before the enhancement, they all traded the same.


Interesting.  It seems that many reports indicate finer differences now in trade power, whether it's due to resort award, check-in date, unit size, full or partial kitchen, whatever.  I agree that it's more fair, just hard to adjust after being able to work the system.     I'll be paying closer attention to availability in the last 30-60 days.  I'm not seeing inventory open wide for this time period, like I'd expected.



Jwerking said:


> Believe me, when you deposit your Foxrun with II, it will certainly recognize it as a lesser demand week than a beach week.


There, I disagree.  Foxrun still gets ACs, still trades very well.  II has a different resort distribution than RCI.  II seems to have a disproportionate membership in FL, with folks who like to visit the (southern) Smoky and Blue Ridge Mountains and their resort availability in NC and TN is very limited.  So Foxrun trades very well in II.



Jwerking said:


> Talk about unfair, I purchased my Marriott Hilton Head timeshares from the developer - mostly to have the Marriott rewards point option and they have made MAJOR revisions twice in that program in the past 10 years that have seriously undermined the value of those reward points.


That's a shame.  An exchange company is optional and it's easy to switch to another if we don't like their changes.  The management company is a whole other matter.


----------



## Lisa P

Carolinian said:


> And this is NOT about making a system more fair for members.  ...  Having we learned what RCI is really all about?


Hm.  I see your point, to a point.  But you've been railing against RCI for many years now and not against II or SFX, which do the same thing with rentals.

As the internet has educated people more about timesharing and resale pricing, developer sales have experienced a definite impact with higher rescission rates.  I wonder if timresharing internet sites (like TUG) have made it too easy for Tuggers and Lurkers to learn to cherry-pick and upgrade through RCI and the result has impacted the ability of high-end resorts to get ready trades into other high-end resorts.  Sometimes people complain about that and more so in recent years.

But here, we're seeing changes that may, over a little time, increase the availability of high-end trades for those with high-end deposits seeking them.  It may take a year or more to see if this is a tangible result.  I'm not going to be so quick to assume that these changes are truly all about increasing rental revenues.  It still seems to me that the majority of rentals available at cheap prices are within the next couple of months.  And that makes sense.


----------



## Carolinian

You might want to look at a post I made on a UK timeshare site, on which I am a moderator, earlier today where I DID indeed call II out on that subject.  The OP in that thread was a South African member of RCI who had just discovered RCI's rentals and was outraged.  However, II does this in a MUCH more minor way than RCI.

I have seen RCI cheerleaders on timeshare boards unfairly claim DAE and Trading Places was doing the same as RCI, but that is just untrue.  I really am not familiar enough with SFX to know if there is any truth to your contention there or not.  One of my weeks would be accepted by SFX, so I may be checking them out before long.

You might also want to check the thread on this subject on Timeshare Forums where people who do very regular RCI searches have concluded that at least 10,000 weeks and probably more just disappeared when this ''enhancement'' was made.  They didn't get more restricted, they just disappeared from the enchange system, and they were the more desirable weeks.  RCI did something with them, and whatever it is clearly does not involve exchanging.

High-end is really only part of the picture.  The real key is high DEMAND and low supply.  Being high-end will indeed be one factor, but only one, on the demand side.

Once they try to micro manage a concept of "like for like", instead of treating it on a composite of factors, by slicing and dicing each aspect individually, it only helps one entity.  That is not exchangers, but on the contrary the RCI rental pool because all it does is artificially create more ''excess'' to be rented.  It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

When you start looking at Weeks resorts that have nothing good or nothing at all for exchange but DO have it for rentals, then that tells the story of what is going on.  We don't have to wait a year.  We can see it now.

When RCI first started renting, the Seasons chain of timeshares in Europe jumped ship to II, and put out a well written explanation as to why in a special issue of their newsletter.  They cited the number, already well into the thousands even then, of RCI rentals from their spacebank to the general public and said that combined with the preference for their points system, RCI would leave their weeks-based members (or mini-systems like Seasons) out in the cold.  They verbally fired a withering broadside at RCI over these issues, and events have shown they were right on target.





Lisa P said:


> Hm.  I see your point, to a point.  But you've been railing against RCI for many years now and not against II or SFX, which do the same thing with rentals.
> 
> As the internet has educated people more about timesharing and resale pricing, developer sales have experienced a definite impact with higher rescission rates.  I wonder if timresharing internet sites (like TUG) have made it too easy for Tuggers and Lurkers to learn to cherry-pick and upgrade through RCI and the result has impacted the ability of high-end resorts to get ready trades into other high-end resorts.  Sometimes people complain about that and more so in recent years.
> 
> But here, we're seeing changes that may, over a little time, increase the availability of high-end trades for those with high-end deposits seeking them.  It may take a year or more to see if this is a tangible result.  I'm not going to be so quick to assume that these changes are truly all about increasing rental revenues.  It still seems to me that the majority of rentals available at cheap prices are within the next couple of months.  And that makes sense.


----------



## "Roger"

Carolinian said:


> Here is another non-points resort, Hotel Deutschmeister in Vienna, with a great location, 2 blocks outside the ring, in one of the world's great cities.  Again compare rentals and exchanges.  And look at the rental rates.  If you are in the market for a rental, Rental Condominiums International comes through again!  The rental price is below most timeshare owners m/f, without even considering the exchange fee.
> 
> meet your criteria Total Units Available: 14
> Unit Type Max Occup
> (Privacy) Kitchen Check-In Date Check-Out Date Price
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 17-Oct-2009 24-Oct-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 24-Oct-2009 31-Oct-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 31-Oct-2009 07-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 07-Nov-2009 14-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 14-Nov-2009 21-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 21-Nov-2009 28-Nov-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 28-Nov-2009 05-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 05-Dec-2009 12-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Dec-2009 19-Dec-2009 $440.99
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 13-Nov-2010 20-Nov-2010 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 08-Jan-2011 15-Jan-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 29-Jan-2011 05-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 12-Feb-2011 19-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only
> Hotel 2 (2) No Kitchen 19-Feb-2011 26-Feb-2011 Exchange Fee Only


It is interesting to go to Expedia and check out this hotel.  There is a calendar showing available dates color coded by expense.  Suddenly when you get to October 17 through December 19, the dates are X'd out entirely (but not the dates prior to and immediately after).  It would appear that what RCI is doing in this case is acting as a consolidator (buying a big block of rooms at a discount and then reselling them).  

Are they rentals?  Yes (but the source would appear to be from the hotel selling RCI a block of rooms).  Should this make one think twice about owning? Yes?  Is there something that says that RCI should not be playing the role of a consolidator and offering its members deep discounts in city locations????


----------



## Carolinian

Your speculation is not on target.  After the ''enhancement'', the rental units at this resort began in August.  The better dates have been rented before I posted this.  So much for your efforts to defend RCI, which seem to be something you frequently try to do.





"Roger" said:


> It is interesting to go to Expedia and check out this hotel.  There is a calendar showing available dates color coded by expense.  Suddenly when you get to October 17 through December 19, the dates are X'd out entirely (but not the dates prior to and immediately after).  It would appear that what RCI is doing in this case is acting as a consolidator (buying a big block of rooms at a discount and then reselling them).
> 
> Are they rentals?  Yes (but the source would appear to be from the hotel selling RCI a block of rooms).  Should this make one think twice about owning? Yes?  Is there something that says that RCI should not be playing the role of a consolidator and offering its members deep discounts in city locations????


----------



## FLDVCFamily

jamstew said:


> That's great for you, but my *2*-bedroom silver crown red summer week can only exchange for 34 units in 8 resorts. Of those 8 resorts, 3 are silver crown and two are hospitality, and there are only two 2-bedrooms. None of that matters to me, because I'm not looking to go to Hawaii, just Orlando, which everyone says is one of the most overbuilt destinations. I don't expect DVC (I'm an owner so I don't need it). I just can't get Bonnet Creek, the one I really need, and I don't understand why. Yes, it's gold crown and I don't own gold crown, but I'd happily take a smaller unit. I can get every other Wyndham on the freakin' planet, so why did they take that *one* resort (the one I really, really want) away? Yes, I'm upset and whining about it. :annoyed:



Jamie, why not buy some Wyndham points off of Ebay (they're dirt cheap) and just book Bonnet Creek directly?  We're DVC owners too, but we ended up adding a 203K point Wyndham point contract just so we could book Bonnet Creek.  It's been well worth it.  We paid like $1100 closed, and we've got enough points to play with for now.  We like Bonnet Creek better than DVC right now, so it works for us.


----------



## FLDVCFamily

Jwerking said:


> Believe me, when you deposit your Foxrun with II, it will certainly recognize it as a lesser demand week than a beach week.



I own 2 summer weeks at Foxrun and they are excellent traders in II.  I just got my 2010 Accomodations Certificates for both weeks  They have very strong trade power in II, so I have no complaints.  I don't know if a beach week might be marginally better, but I see everything that I want to see (including loads of Marriott, and even Harborside Atlantis at times) so I'm not complaining!


----------



## tombo

FLDVCFamily said:


> I own 2 summer weeks at Foxrun and they are excellent traders in II.  I just got my 2010 Accomodations Certificates for both weeks  They have very strong trade power in II, so I have no complaints.  I don't know if a beach week might be marginally better, but I see everything that I want to see (including loads of Marriott, and even Harborside Atlantis at times) so I'm not complaining!



I can't speak for II, and this thread isn't about II (note the heading which says RCI-New strategies). In RCI a summer ocean front beach week has much higher trading power than a smokey mountain summer week or a summer week in the Blue Ridge Mountains. I can tell you this from experience as I own 4th of July in Gatlinburg and 4th of July in Banner Elk NC (all 2 bed 2 bath). My 4th of July mountain weeks aren't as strong a traders in RCI as non 4th of July weeks on the beach. Not only do the beach weeks have higher trading power (rightly  so), the summer beach weeks rent for more money and they rent quicker and easier. 

I currently STILL have a July week in Gatlinburg that hasn't rented, and my 4th of July week in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina and my 4th of July week in Gatlinburg both rented last minute for highly discounted prices (barely over MF's). My 2 bed room summer beach weeks I own rented for about the same price as last year (most for the same price as last year), and they rented farther in advance. I haven't had a summer 2 bed 2 bath beach week for rent since April and I already have 2 of them rented for next year with deposits paid. I have never had anyone want to reserve one of my 4th of July mountain weeks a year in advance (anyone reading this please feel free to be the first). Next year I will probably once again struggle to rent my mountain weeks unless the economy improves, and I will hopefully once again easily rent my summer beach weeks.

Demand can be determined many ways, but one of the best ways IMO is how well weeks rent, and what price they command. That is supply and demand actually working in a free market. This year I rented my 2 bed room summer (June, July) oceanfront beach weeks for 2 times or more what I rented my Summer Mountain weeks for. This year I rented a 4th of July in Gatlinburg for $x (discounted many times) and my Blue Ridge mountain 4th of July week (in a 2 bed 2 bath w/1400 sq feet and a loft) for $x plus a little more (also discounted several times). My 4th of July Beachfront Panhandle week rented for $x times 2.5. I don't care whether RCI or II is determining trading power, the summer ocean front beach week should be rated higher because it is harder to come by and will consistently rent for a lot more money.

In RCI summer beach weeks have higher trading value than Summer mountain weeks, and from my rental experiences RCI has the trading power correct.


----------



## rickandcindy23

Tombo, this thread has taken many turns.  Foxrun was discussed, and with knowledge about Foxrun in II, some of us can say that RCI is not the place for Foxrun.  

II gives more trading power to Foxrun than RCI does, plus bonus weeks for summer deposits, and that is my strategy for Foxrun.  The entire point is that Foxrun summer weeks did see 166K weeks, and now it's dropped by about 30K weeks, since the enhancement.  In II, Foxrun has superior trading power, and RCI took back the trading power for Foxrun.  

So my new strategy is my old strategy: give II my Foxrun weeks.


----------



## "Roger"

Carolinian said:


> Your speculation is not on target.  After the ''enhancement'', the rental units at this resort began in August.  The better dates have been rented before I posted this.  So much for your efforts to defend RCI, which seem to be something you frequently try to do.


I am surprised that you didn't mention this when you responded to Mel who noted that there were no weeks during high demand time.  

To me, the fact that the dates that you posted perfectly match those on which Expedia has no availability at that hotel (and these are the only dates for which that is so, none in August or September) still looks suspicious.

You may think that I am a supporter of RCI.  I see myself as just an all around skeptic and fact checker.  I don't think that is a bad thing. (My last post on this subject.)


----------



## Carolinian

At the time Mel commented the better weeks had already rented.

If you want to ''fact check'' you would be better off using a European booking site rather than an American-based booking site like Expedia.  If you had checked Booking.com, a European-based site, for instance, you would find those Fall weeks that you couldn't find on Expedia.




"Roger" said:


> I am surprised that you didn't mention this when you responded to Mel who noted that there were no weeks during high demand time.
> 
> To me, the fact that the dates that you posted perfectly match those on which Expedia has no availability at that hotel (and these are the only dates for which that is so, none in August or September) still looks suspicious.
> 
> You may think that I am a supporter of RCI.  I see myself as just an all around skeptic and fact checker.  I don't think that is a bad thing. (My last post on this subject.)


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> Tombo, this thread has taken many turns.  Foxrun was discussed, and with knowledge about Foxrun in II, some of us can say that RCI is not the place for Foxrun.
> 
> II gives more trading power to Foxrun than RCI does, plus bonus weeks for summer deposits, and that my strategy for Foxrun.  The entire point is that Foxrun summer weeks did see 166K weeks, and now it's dropped by about 30K weeks, since the enhancement.  In II, Foxrun has superior trading power, and RCI took back the trading power for Foxrun.
> 
> So my new strategy is my old strategy: give II my Foxrun weeks.



For the reasons I stated above (less demand, lower rental prices)  I think that RCI was right to lower Foxrun's and all summer southeastern mountain destination's trading power to lower than the trading power of summer beach weeks. If II hasn't done that then it is because they haven't researched it enough or because they have such limited availability in those areas that the demand in II for the summer mountains is higher. 

II only has 12 Gatlinburg  area resorts while RCI has 23. RCI has every Gatlinburg resort that II has except for Big Bear (looks nice), Westgate Smoky Mountains (nice resort),  and Fox Run (not rated). RCI has Grande Crown Resorts, Holiday Inn Vacation Club, Sunrise Resort, and Wyndham Smoky montains along with 7 other resorts that you can't get with II. In the North carolina Mountains II only has 15 locations (all of which are available through RCI except Christie Village)). RCI has 18 resorts and the 2 Wyndhams, and Alpine Village  are only available through RCI. While we are pointing out differences between RCI and II, the availability of resorts is another reason I like RCI better than II (yes both of my 4th of July mountain weeks are dually affiliated with both RCI and II). 


If your Fox Run trading power is as good as a summer beach week with II, ride that pony as long as you can. RCI has lowered the trading power of these weeks as they rightfully should have. Not only are they summer mountain weeks (good demand but not the highest), they are at Foxrun which II awards no rating, and it is only rated hospitality by RCI. If Foxrun should easily trade for DVC and Gold Crown Hawaii (as some seem to believe), then my 4th of July Silver crown weeks should trade for anything that is available anywhere. After all 4th of July is the highest demand week in the summer and Silver crown is rated higher than Hospitality. Heck my weeks should pull 2 bed room Animal Kingdom summer weeks and HGVC Hawaii with ease. If Foxrun is a strong trader, then my 4th of July weeks should be tiger traders.

Why am I not outraged that my 4th of July Silver Crown doesn't pull everything that RCI has to offer? I am not outraged because I know which weeks are worth more in both rental value and in trade, and I am honest about the value whether I love a resort I own personally or not. The highest trading power resorts aren't and shouldn't be Foxrun, or in fact any summer southeastern mountain resort.


----------



## jamstew

FLDVCFamily said:


> Jamie, why not buy some Wyndham points off of Ebay (they're dirt cheap) and just book Bonnet Creek directly?  We're DVC owners too, but we ended up adding a 203K point Wyndham point contract just so we could book Bonnet Creek.  It's been well worth it.  We paid like $1100 closed, and we've got enough points to play with for now.  We like Bonnet Creek better than DVC right now, so it works for us.



I've thought about it, but if I bought points at a different Wyndham, wouldn't I still possibly have difficulty getting into Bonnet Creek?


----------



## rickandcindy23

jamstew said:


> I've thought about it, but if I bought points at a different Wyndham, wouldn't I still possibly have difficulty getting into Bonnet Creek?



No you wouldn't have any problem getting Bonnet Creek with Wyn points.  BUT the cost of a summer 2 bedroom weeks is 224,000 points.  I think that is a lot for summer.  During some weeks of the fall, the points for a full week, 2 bedroom, is 112,000.  Late August is about 189,000 points.  

The resort is huge, so booking ahead is not a problem.  Plus, last-minute availability is great, within 15 days of check-in, when people let reservations go to keep their points.  

Tombo, I don't even know what to say.  You and I both know that RCI shouldn't have downgraded our weeks after they were already in their system.  It was wrong and goes against their, "trading power is set at the time of deposit," promise of a few months ago; something they said to us on the phone as we complained about the loss of trading power after the enhancements.  RCI is so MESSED UP, they didn't even communicate to the guides that this was a deliberate decision to downgrade trading power across the board for just about everything.  

As far as Foxun's desirability is concerned, we rented our Foxrun week 26 in 2008 for $995, and it was rented three months before check-in, within a day of posting the advertisement, and the ad received many additional inquiries.  I could have rented that particular week 3 times over, at least.  This year, I deposited that week with RCI for kicks, and got a DVC exchange with it, before the enhancement.  

And II does have very few weeks available in the North Carolina mountains, near Asheville, which may be why they offer AC's.  They also offer AC's for my Twin Rivers summer and ski weeks, and that is Colorado.   I guess they are mistaken there too.   I guess II should re-evaluate and downgrade everything, too.


----------



## bnoble

> if I bought points at a different Wyndham, wouldn't I still possibly have difficulty getting into Bonnet Creek?


As Cindy mentions, it's generally very easy, unless you have your heart set on a 4BR unit---those can go before the Standard window opens.  Also, if you want a holiday week, you might have to jump right on that 10-month window.

There are also some times when the BC point chart is inverted with respect to the other Orlando area resorts, and then the BC units go much more quickly.  For example, Easter week this year was inexplicably Value season at Bonnet Creek, but Prime season at the others.  Even so, I managed to get a 2BR at Bonnet when the Standard window opened.


----------



## jamstew

I'd most often only need a 1BR, and *never* in the summer.   I would, however, need weekends. My thought is to spend a few nights at BC either before or after 5 nights at DVC, usually in late April or early May, occasionally early December. Can you bank/borrow like you can with Disney? 

This may need to be moved to the Wyndham board, which I should probably be studying


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## lawgs

*We were told at an "update"*



bnoble said:


> As Cindy mentions, it's generally very easy, unless you have your heart set on a 4BR unit---those can go before the Standard window opens.  Also, if you want a holiday week, you might have to jump right on that 10-month window.
> 
> There are also some times when the BC point chart is inverted with respect to the other Orlando area resorts, and then the BC units go much more quickly.  For example, Easter week this year was inexplicably Value season at Bonnet Creek, but Prime season at the others.  Even so, I managed to get a 2BR at Bonnet when the Standard window opened.




we were told at an update while we were there on an exchange last october, that the "value" season at Bonnet Creek in the spring was a "mistake" that was missed, which cannot be changed NOW, thus, the peculiar point total for what should be PRIME season/Spring Break for others


----------



## bnoble

Well, it _could_ be changed---BC is a UDI resort.  As long as the point totals for each declared unit don't change for a calendar year, they could easily fix this by promoting the Easter week, and demoting something else.

Jamie: at WBC, it seems that the 4BRs go first, then 3BRs, then 1BRs, then 2BRs last.

You can bank/borrow, but there are restrictions.  The Wyndham Primer will give you the details.  In most things, the Wyndham system is a little more complicated than DVC.


----------



## tombo

rickandcindy23 said:


> N
> 
> As far as Foxun's desirability is concerned, we rented our Foxrun week 26 in 2008 for $995, and it was rented three months before check-in, within a day of posting the advertisement, and the ad received many additional inquiries.  I could have rented that particular week 3 times over, at least.  This year, I deposited that week with RCI for kicks, and got a DVC exchange with it, before the enhancement.
> 
> And II does have very few weeks available in the North Carolina mountains, near Asheville, which may be why they offer AC's.  They also offer AC's for my Twin Rivers summer and ski weeks, and that is Colorado.   I guess they are mistaken there too.   I guess II should re-evaluate and downgrade everything, too.



Hey I got $995 for my Blue Ridge Village week in 2008 too and $899 for both of my Gatlinburg weeks. You should have tried to rent your Fox Run week in 2009, it has been a whole different story. I would gladly have taken $799 this year for either week, but it was take less or bank it. However for the most part my summer beach weeks have rented for about the same in 2008 as 2009, but many have not rented until very close to check-in. As I said I have deposits on 2 of my 2010 summer weeks which is something I have never had offered on a Smoky Mountain week or a Blue Ridge mountain week ever.


I don't have a good deposit week right now (it only shows 122,000), but in June and July 2010  I can see 17 available weeks in the NC mountains.  There are 118 total weeks available from March to September using my available trade. March has 2 silver crown resorts and 2 hospitality rated wyndham resorts available.April has a hospitality resort . May has 3 hospitality resorts and 1 silver crown . July one hospitality resort.available.
  March 2010  [26]  
April 2010  [28]  
May 2010  [27]  
June 2010  [9]  
July 2010  [8]  
August 2010  [7]  
September 2010  [8]  



On the Florida Panhandle which also has 15 resorts I can see NONE in June and only 5 in July for a total of 5 available weeks in June and July. The 5 available units are all in a non rated resort on the bay. In fact there is not an oceanfront unit available on the panhandle using the same deposit in April,May,June, July, or August 2010, and only one oceanfront is available in march, one in April, and only 2 in September are available. Of the 4 oceanfront weeks available from March through September, none are located in a Hospitality or higher rated resort, and none are available in the summer months.

Total availability April through Sept 2010; 

      --  Florida 
      ----  Florida Panhandle 

  Check-In Month  

March 2010  [17]  
April 2010  [13]  
May 2010  [16]  
July 2010  [5]  
August 2010  [14]  
September 2010  [8] 


The NC mountains has limited inventory in the summer and should trade well, but not like the Florida panhandle which has zero oceanfront units available from April to August using my trade. As hard as the oceanfront panhandle trade is to get, a deposited summer oceanfront panhandle week should not have the trading power of a DVC, a prime Hawaii resort, places like St Johns, Aruba, and St Thomas where inventory is really limited and demand is high. I don't think my weeks are as hard to get as some others, so when I can't get one of those it is simply what I expected when  started the search. However  when I do get one of those that is more valuable than what I deposited, it is reason to celebrate.


----------



## Jwerking

Lisa P said:


> There, I disagree.  Foxrun still gets ACs, still trades very well.  II has a different resort distribution than RCI.  II seems to have a disproportionate membership in FL, with folks who like to visit the (southern) Smoky and Blue Ridge Mountains and their resort availability in NC and TN is very limited.  So Foxrun trades very well in II.



I get an AC for my Marriott Summit Watch in Park city also, but like I said it is a mediocre trader.  So if Foxrun is a tiger in II, enjoy it.  Because if you can trade into Marriotts and all sorts of great resorts at prime times when Foxrun is not even a rated resort, there is for sure a glitch in the II system.  Even with the Marriott preference, I cannot trade into highly demanded Marriott weeks even with an ongoing search.


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## rickandcindy23

I have no idea what season you own, but if you own a prime summer or ski week, perhaps it is a glitch in II on your side.  

You will rarely see a summer week in II for the Asheville area.  There is a demand index in II's catalog, it's worth a look, if you haven't seen it.  The area Foxrun is located, even spring and fall weeks, has very high demand.   



Jwerking said:


> I get an AC for my Marriott Summit Watch in Park city also, but like I said it is a mediocre trader.  So if Foxrun is a tiger in II, enjoy it.  Because if you can trade into Marriotts and all sorts of great resorts at prime times when Foxrun is not even a rated resort, there is for sure a glitch in the II system.  Even with the Marriott preference, I cannot trade into highly demanded Marriott weeks even with an ongoing search.


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## rickandcindy23

lawgs said:


> we were told at an update while we were there on an exchange last october, that the "value" season at Bonnet Creek in the spring was a "mistake" that was missed, which cannot be changed NOW, thus, the peculiar point total for what should be PRIME season/Spring Break for others



Easter isn't always in April, it is sometimes mid-March.


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## Egret1986

*Makes sense to me!*



tombo said:


> I don't think my weeks are as hard to get as some others, so when I can't get one of those it is simply what I expected when  started the search. However  when I do get one of those that is more valuable than what I deposited, it is reason to celebrate.



I guess that's why we're not rattled by what has happened with RCI.


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## Carolinian

If it were a pure exchange system, I would have no quarrel with tweaking of the trading power.  However, when the exchange company is puting its hand in our pocket to take out inventory to rent to the general public, it creates a massive conflict of interest.  They profit from screwing us on trading power because the result is more ''excess'' for them to rent out.  This is the one of the biggest evils of an exchange company renting from exchange deposits and something that I have pointed out since RCI got into the rental business years ago.  As people who regularly search specific areas over at TS4Ms have discovered, the missing inventory, in excess of 10,000 or the best weeks has not just been restricted to other timesharers.  It is just GONE from the system since RCI's ''enhancement'' which was enhancing their rental program while screwing their dues paying exchange members.  The Seasons chain in Europe was right on target when they predicted where this rental crap would lead and jumped ship to II to get away from it.

From what I am seeing from RCI, there are some decent rental opportunities, decent enough for me to extend my membership, something I had not planned to do.  But it is getting more worthless and dishonset by the day as an exchange company.  RCI is fine for rentals but lousy for exchanges.

When a prime summer week in southern England at a high demand resort regularly cannot trade for anything in spring, summer, or fall anywhere in England, yet there are rentals availible from RCI, something is very badly wrong with RCI.  And it can be summed up in one word, R-E-N-T-A-L-S.


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## jamstew

bnoble said:


> Jamie: at WBC, it seems that the 4BRs go first, then 3BRs, then 1BRs, then 2BRs last.
> 
> You can bank/borrow, but there are restrictions.  The Wyndham Primer will give you the details.  In most things, the Wyndham system is a little more complicated than DVC.



Thanks, Brian. Where can I find the Wyndham Primer?


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## Egret1986

*Paying to be screwed?  Hmmmm*



Carolinian said:


> while screwing their dues paying exchange members.
> 
> From what I am seeing from RCI, there are some decent rental opportunities, decent enough for me to extend my membership, something I had not planned to do.



I have to say I'm quite amazed to hear you're extending an RCI membership.  You are and have been one of the most vocal RCI bashers on TUG.

I keep hearing this endlessly.  Folks complaining and moaning and on and on and on; but yet they still remain members of RCI.

Seems to me, somebody's getting something out of this relationship or why continue it......paying to be screwed?


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## cancun dish

*actually gained trading power*

One of my weeks actually gained about 45,000 weeks available to it.  I can not imagine I am the only one who gained.  The total number of weeks that I can see is greater than my highest trading power can see.


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## rickandcindy23

Egret1986 said:


> I have to say I'm quite amazed to hear you're extending an RCI membership.  You are and have been one of the most vocal RCI bashers on TUG.
> 
> I keep hearing this endlessly.  Folks complaining and moaning and on and on and on; but yet they still remain members of RCI.
> 
> Seems to me, somebody's getting something out of this relationship or why continue it......paying to be screwed?



I think Carolinian is being sarcastic, because the rental program has more weeks, and at good prices.


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## bnoble

Jamie: the Wyndham primer can be found here.  You may have to sign up to download it.

forums.atozed.com

Scroll down to the section entitled "Fairfield / Wyndham Primer".  As of this post, the current version is version 2.


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## rachel1998

I recently deposited 2 weeks for July 4th week next year. I usually can get anything I want because they are on the California Coast. I can't pull anything so far with these weeks. I wish I hadn't deposited them with RCI. Next time I will not do that.


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> From what I am seeing from RCI, there are some decent rental opportunities, decent enough for me to extend my membership, something I had not planned to do.  But it is getting more worthless and dishonset by the day as an exchange company.  RCI is fine for rentals but lousy for exchanges.
> 
> When a prime summer week in southern England at a high demand resort regularly cannot trade for anything in spring, summer, or fall anywhere in England, yet there are rentals availible from RCI, something is very badly wrong with RCI.  And it can be summed up in one word, R-E-N-T-A-L-S.



Carolinian, why would you extend your membership after saying nothing good about RCI for ages? If I felt like you say you feel, I would quit in protest. Surely you should at least quit on principle.  

I am reminded of people who complain about their job day after day, talking about how much more money they should be making, how much better other employers treat their employees, how their company couldn't make it without them, but they never seem to QUIT their job and go somewhere else where it is better. 

Why are you CONTINUING TO PAY for RCI? This is the company you describe as a horrible, week stealing, owner inventory renting, supposed exchange company which is in reality nothing more than a rental company where you can NEVER GET A DECENT EXCHANGE. Yet you EXTEND YOUR MEMBERSHIP? You can't have it both ways if you are honest. It is either a horrible company you refuse to give another dollar of your money to and which you quit, or else they are a company which gives good value for the money they charge so you remain a paying member. 

Your constant RCI slamming says that you think RCI is a company that no one should deal with, but rather than quitting, you pay them to extend your membership. So in reality your actions show that you personally feel that RCI is worth the money they charge to be a member. I would think that one would slow down on the anti RCI posts until they actually dislike RCI enough to no longer be a paying member, much less a member who just admitted that they payed to extend their membership in the same post that they were complaining about RCI.


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## tombo

cancun dish said:


> One of my weeks actually gained about 45,000 weeks available to it.  I can not imagine I am the only one who gained.  The total number of weeks that I can see is greater than my highest trading power can see.



I had 2 weeks deposited with RCI when they did the enhancement.  One of my deposited weeks increased in the number of weeks I can see, and the other decreased. I assume that many other people had weks increase in value too, but as in anything the upset people are always more vocal.


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## bnoble

> The total number of weeks that I can see is greater than my highest trading power can see.


This can happen due to VEP.  If you have a week with high trade power but high VEP, there are some weeks with lower demand but also lower quality you won't be able to see.  If you have a week with lower trade power but also lower VEP, then that deposit can see such "lesser" weeks that the "better" deposit can't.


----------



## Carolinian

Gee that's a term I haven't seen on TUG for a long time.  Some years ago, people here were being characterized here as either ''RCI apologists'' or ''RCI bashers''.  I hope we are not going back to those days.

I have nothing per se against RCI as a company, but I do have quite a bit of concern about the customer-unfriendly and self-serving policies they have adopted since the Cendent takeover of RCI.  When Cristel DeHaan was running the show and RCI was an independent company, they created what was the greatest timeshare exchange company that has ever existed.  Unfortunately, they have been marching steadily backward since Cendent came on the scene.  I would love to see RCI get back to its old self.

It has sometimes been amusing to debate some of the RCI ''deniers'' on these boards, the ones who always see anything RCI does through rose-colored glasses.  I remember when the Seasons timeshare chain newsletter came out announcing they were jumping ship to II, and several Tuggers noted that what Seasons managment was saying about the dangers of rentals and points were exactly what I had been warning about for months.  I was even accused of writing that newsletter.  I also remember when I was the very first one on TUG to point out that RCI was going to go into the rental business to the general public.  It was a simple matter of analysis and common sense.  RCI was just rolling out GPN, which became RCI Points, and in a TUG moderated chat presided over by Fern, RCI was asked what they would do with the timeshare weeks they got in exchange for points partners exchanges and they responded that they would use them to introduce new people to timesharing.  I immediately saw that as a euphemism for rentals to the public, especially since RCI would have to pay in some way for what they gave people in points partner exchanges.  Some of the deniers jumped me on that and said absolutely not, RCI would never, NEVER, be renting our timeshare inventory to the general public.  Their knee jerk defense of RCI in the face of the obvious was astounding, but it was not long that RCI acknowledged they were renting.  One of those deniers who was probably the most argumentative on this issue of rentals at that juncture is still at it, and has even posted in the threads about RCI's most recent changes, still blindly defending anything RCI does.

In dealing with RCI into the future, one really has to seperate their rental side from their exchange side.  Yes, they are unreliable on the exchange side, and the response until that changes is not to give them any deposits.  But one also has to consider their rental side, which at least at present offers good value in many but not all cases.  The solution is to change strategies to use them where they still provide good value, which is rentals.  At this point, I do not know how to do that at the best value without continuing on as a member.  That does not mean I approve of what they are doing with exchanges.  I certainly do not. It just means I don't hate the company and as long as they offer good value on a fair number of rentals that I would use, I don't mind continuing to use them for that limited purpose.





Egret1986 said:


> I have to say I'm quite amazed to hear you're extending an RCI membership.  You are and have been one of the most vocal RCI bashers on TUG.
> 
> I keep hearing this endlessly.  Folks complaining and moaning and on and on and on; but yet they still remain members of RCI.
> 
> Seems to me, somebody's getting something out of this relationship or why continue it......paying to be screwed?


----------



## rickandcindy23

Yes, I agree with Carolinian.  It is a waste of good money to have a blue week in RCI right now, if you pay anything more than $200 in maintenance fees, because you can rent anything RCI will give you for about that much money, especially for what I can get for my blue weeks.  

I pay $480 in fees for my blue weeks and get exchanges in the fall for Orlando.  There are lots of Last Call vacations that would be just fine with me, and I could take two of those for the price of one of my blue weeks + exchange fee.  You can actually rent a week from RCI for a little over the exchange fee, when you wait until the last minute, so why do I own blue weeks for that purpose?  I am no longer going that route with my weeks.  

My blue weeks see 117K available units this morning, but for some reason, I can no longer see the good stuff at 45 days or less, the way I did before the "enhancement."  I used to see last-minute stuff in Gold Crowns for Hawaii.  And before the enhancement, my weeks saw fewer exchanges.  So should I be celebrating because the blue weeks had an increase in trading power?  I see nothing that I couldn't see before.  

I am not a person who is just starting the exchange game, and I am sure tired of having people act like I don't know anything about it. I will admit Brian knows more than me.


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## Carolinian

I asked the question on a UK-based site if people over there were also seeing some of the same things that Tuggers are, and the answer so far is Yes.  Availibility is noticibly down.


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## Carolinian

As a former HOA board member to a current HOA board member, I think you will share my concern that RCI is continuing to destroy any exchange value a blue week has had, and as more members figure this out, they will start bailing out of these weeks.  Many of their changes, beginning with opening weeks last minute inventory to points members and renting last minute inventory to the general public which has rendered the 45 day window continuously less useful, have already led some off season owners to bail out.  The challenge for HOA's will be to find non-exchange markets for these weeks or to sell them to people who use other exchange companies.  Unfortunately, there are too many HOA's who simply do not comprehend what RCI is sending down the pike at them.

Personally, it has been years since I have owned a blue week.  Through TUG, I found enough channels to buy prime red weeks cheap, and when you know how to do that, who needs to own blue.





rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, I agree with Carolinian.  It is a waste of good money to have a blue week in RCI right now, if you pay anything more than $200 in maintenance fees, because you can rent anything RCI will give you for about that much money, especially for what I can get for my blue weeks.
> 
> I pay $480 in fees for my blue weeks and get exchanges in the fall for Orlando.  There are lots of Last Call vacations that would be just fine with me, and I could take two of those for the price of one of my blue weeks + exchange fee.  You can actually rent a week from RCI for a little over the exchange fee, when you wait until the last minute, so why do I own blue weeks for that purpose?  I am no longer going that route with my weeks.
> 
> My blue weeks see 117K available units this morning, but for some reason, I can no longer see the good stuff at 45 days or less, the way I did before the "enhancement."  I used to see last-minute stuff in Gold Crowns for Hawaii.  And before the enhancement, my weeks saw fewer exchanges.  So should I be celebrating because the blue weeks had an increase in trading power?  I see nothing that I couldn't see before.
> 
> I am not a person who is just starting the exchange game, and I am sure tired of having people act like I don't know anything about it. I will admit Brian knows more than me.


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## rickandcindy23

Yes, Steve, we have over 100 blue weeks at Twin Rivers that have no owners, so we are going to let people use them, Right to Use, for much less than maintenance fees.  

This is an idea PA-(TUG member name, who is on the board with me) had, and I think it is a good one.  Believe it or not, we are going to have weeks for less than half of the maintenance fees that regular owners pay.   This seems contrary to owners' best interests in a way, but then again, at least we will get something for those weeks.  

What do you do when the exchange companies devalue what you own so much, you have to resort to these measures?


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## AwayWeGo

*Let's See -- How Can We Equalize Values Of Low & High Season Weeks ?*




rickandcindy23 said:


> What do you do when the exchange companies devalue what you own so much, you have to resort to these measures?


What about switching the timeshare to points ? 

I mean, in addition to all the real & perceived faults of the points system, it also has the virtue of compensating for the unequal values of prime season & mid-season & off-season by assigning lower points values to off-season weeks & higher values to in-demand weeks. 

Points are points, no ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Carolinian

AwayWeGo said:


> What about switching the timeshare to points ?
> 
> I mean, in addition to all the real & perceived faults of the points system, it also has the virtue of compensating for the unequal values of prime season & mid-season & off-season by assigning lower points values to off-season weeks & higher values to in-demand weeks.
> 
> Points are points, no ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



In some states, it would not be legal to charge different m/f's for different weeks of the year.  Even where it is legal under state law, it would not be likely to pass the members vote.  Any scheme to charge different weeks different m/f's would require amending the Declaration of Covenants, something that generally requires a high supermajority that is almost impossible to get.  At one of my resorts, there was discussion of charging a different m/f based on size of unit, rather than all the same.  That would be fair, but there is absolutely no way it would have gotten the supermajority to be adopted so it was shelved.

Points systems emphasis the low value of off season weeks even more, and therefore can lead to greater bailout.

No, the solution is to find markets other than exchange.  Some resorts market to local residents with the main appeal being yearround use of facilities.  Some UK resorts have done that.  OBBC I and II on the NC Outer Banks have had a good bit of success with that stategy.  Seascape, which is adjacent to a golf course where owners (but not exchangers) get free golf, has had a good amount of success in selling off season weeks to golfers.  Ocean Villas noticed that duck hunting season coincided with the lowest timeshare season and realized that there were a good number of duck blinds a short drive away, so they have done some off season marketing to duck hunters.  There are often markets for own-to-use people out there, and it is just a matter of finding them.  Owners are more stable for a resort's finances than wondering if they will get a rental.  RCI's changes in the way it runs its exchange business should have every thinking HOA looking to mostly an own-to-use resale market.  And to the extent they also appeal to exchangers, they need to promote independent exchange companies which work better with HOA's without kicking the props out from under them like RCI has been doing.

I traded through RCI into a rather large resort in the UK a few years ago and for curiousity walked into their resale office just to look at prices.  I noticed the only exchange company posters on the wall were for II.  The person running the office volunteered that since points had come in, RCI exchanges had gotten squirrelly, told a couple of points-related horror stories from members of that resort, and then said for exchange, the best bet was II, or even DAE.  I was a bit surprised, but this resale office was doing exactly what it should do.  Selling to people for RCI exchanges is building on quicksand these days.  That is one resort that somehow I am not surprised that I see a whole lot less availibility online with RCI than I used to see.


----------



## KarenP

*New Strategy*

OK.  So after reading through this thread, and having been a member on and off TUG for many years, I think my new strategy will be as Carolinian says:  Deposit my Dikhololo weeks with a smaller timeshare company (any advice on which one?) and just use my RCI membership to rent weeks.  Thank goodness I sold my great Hawaii and London weeks a couple of years ago!


----------



## bnoble

> As a former HOA board member to a current HOA board member, I think you will share my concern that RCI is continuing to destroy any exchange value a blue week has had, and as more members figure this out, they will start bailing out of these weeks.


Anyone with any relationship with a seasonal resort probably needs to worry about this.  However, it's probably fair to say that, in the "old days", those weeks were getting _more_ value than they "should have" if you truly believed in "like for like".

The fact is simply that many of these weeks have negative value---they cost more to own than they could ever be worth to anyone.  Dealing with these is a hard question, to say the least, becuase in some sense the offseason owners are subsidizing the in-season ones.  Some resorts (I know of a few in Michigan) bundle weeks in packages on a single deed, so that, for example, you have to own one offseason week (or more) for each high-season week you own.


----------



## Carolinian

Quite the contrary.  The market within the exchange system determines what a week is worth.  If it is still on the shelf for an off season week to take, then it probably wasn't worth what someone imagined.  The problem is when external forces, like widespread rentals by the exchange company distort the internal exchange market.  It is the market that determines what is ''like'' in an exchange system without external distortions not someone's arbitary notions about what something is worth.

For years, what really made off season weeks viable in the exchange market was the 45 day window, when essentially any week could get any week that was left.  That made market sense, as anything still in the spacebank then had a limited shelf life and an inherently lower value.  It was distressed inventory.  In the travel industry, it is not uncommon to discount such inventory.  Members however did not think of this and had the illusion they were getting a really good trade.  RCI did two things that dried up the 45 day window and resorts started seeing bailouts.  One was to open the Weeks 45 day window to Points members, when RCI does not discount short term Points inventory for Weeks or Points members.  The other was to start renting 45 day inventory to the general public.  Both of these things resulted in less availibility in the 45 day window.

The other illusion that was out there for blue week members is that Weeks exchanging was indeed based on like for like, but real world supply / demand like for like, not based on season colors or size, which sometimes don't make a difference.  The key here is the overbuilt areas, nice areas but just way too much supply in the system.  To make matters worse, some of the overbuilt areas are arbitrarily assigned as red all year, like Orlando and the Canary Islands.  These areas are in fact really seasonal even if on the surface it doesn't look like it.  Check out the RCI availibility tables on Orlando, for example (published in the European version of the RCI directory) if you don't think timeshare there is highly seasonal.   When a blue week trades into some of this ''phony red'' then in the context of supply / demand curves, it is indeed a like for like exchange although the member doesn't realize that but see they got a ''red'' week and think they got a great deal.  Hurricane season in the Caribbean is another example of a real off seaon that is still on most islands threoretically red but is a true like for like exchange with a blue week.

You might also be surprised to know that on the OBX, the majority of off season weeks are owned by own-to-use people, not exchangers.  Even so, if the roughly one third of exchange owners this season bailed out all at once, then it was have a severe impact on resort finances.  In talking with resort managers in Germany and France, I was also told that a substantial majority of their off seaon owners were own-to-use people not exchangers.  There is a market out there and that is what the resorts need to concentrate on, not the quicksand of RCI exchangers in this period.

Anyone owning at a resort with an off season - whether designated red or blue - should indeed be concerned that your HOA is on top of this issue and figuring out a strategy to deal with it.  RCI set up resorts for this problem and then pulled the rug out from under them.  For years, the RCI promotional materials used by developed really hyped the ability to trade blue weeks for anything in the system during the 45 day window and many people bought these weeks for that purpose.  Now RCI deliberately depletes that inventory through giving it to Points people and renters from the general public.





bnoble said:


> Anyone with any relationship with a seasonal resort probably needs to worry about this.  However, it's probably fair to say that, in the "old days", those weeks were getting _more_ value than they "should have" if you truly believed in "like for like".
> 
> The fact is simply that many of these weeks have negative value---they cost more to own than they could ever be worth to anyone.  Dealing with these is a hard question, to say the least, becuase in some sense the offseason owners are subsidizing the in-season ones.  Some resorts (I know of a few in Michigan) bundle weeks in packages on a single deed, so that, for example, you have to own one offseason week (or more) for each high-season week you own.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Should Not Be A Problem.*




Carolinian said:


> In some states, it would not be legal to charge different m/f's for different weeks of the year.


No problem. 

Tax'em all the same.  

Charge'm all the same maintenance fees.  

Then assign'm all variable points values according to the primeness of the demand seasons of the respective weeks. 

I mean, shux, something like that is already being done via the Red-White-Blue hierarchy of demand-season color-coding.  So it's hard to imagine any administrative or quasi-legal barrier to formalizing something along the same lines via points valuation, which after all is out there in the open for everyone to see, right or wrong, unlike the vague & mysterious _Trade Power_ formula of Red & White & Blue weeks that is known only to the back-room gnomes of RCI. 

Problem solved. 

Case closed. 

Ready for the next case. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## rickandcindy23

bnoble said:


> Anyone with any relationship with a seasonal resort probably needs to worry about this.  However, it's probably fair to say that, in the "old days", those weeks were getting _more_ value than they "should have" if you truly believed in "like for like".
> 
> The fact is simply that many of these weeks have negative value---they cost more to own than they could ever be worth to anyone.  Dealing with these is a hard question, to say the least, becuase in some sense the offseason owners are subsidizing the in-season ones.  Some resorts (I know of a few in Michigan) bundle weeks in packages on a single deed, so that, for example, you have to own one offseason week (or more) for each high-season week you own.



What resort area isn't seasonal?  Every one of them has a slow season.  We are fortunate in Colorado, because we have a lot of weeks that are red (yes, many are on the pink side of red), specifically all weeks 47-52, 1-15,  and 21-39 are red in RCI.  We have two maintenance weeks, and that leaves just six fall and four spring weeks, ten total weeks that RCI considers blue.  That isn't as bad as some, not as good as Florida or Hawaii, certainly.  Florida has a hurricane season, too.  

Right now, RCI will take any red (even pink) week as PFD for full value.  I expect that to change soon, especially after looking at the new points grid, and when that changes, I wonder how RCI is going to explain away the decision to value some red weeks as higher than other red weeks.  I suppose they won't even try.   

I think people forget that Colorado has a high demand summer season.  It's odd when people talk about how Colorado summer has more inventory than demand.  I am somewhat of an expert in Colorado demand, owning 8 weeks and studying trading power of our weeks for over 25 years, which are good and which aren't in RCI, dumping those weeks into PFD when they aren't working for us as weeks.   Our Val Chatelle summer weeks are on a fixed rotation, changing every year, so I get to experience every possible exchange power from very high to fair.  It's so drastic between weeks, and that is why I deposit when nothing is available for exchange, whatever week I am depositing.  Then I test the trading power, either with the guide or on my own, and I usually have great results.  

By the way, all of that inventory you see in Pagosa Springs and Estes Park in winter, not at all close to ski areas, and the only desirable season is really summer in those areas.  Very hard to get summer at Ram's Horn Village, Estes Park, in RCI.  Pagosa, hard to get summer, but lots of spring and fall weeks always available for exchange.  I looked when Tombo kept posting availability in Colorado, and I would say not much red.  Sure, RCI and II lump all of Colorado into those categories, but that doesn't make those desirable seasons for every single resort area in Colorado.  Estes Park has far more weeks that are blue than red.   

As far as Twin Rivers is concerned, I would like to see it cease to exist as a timeshare and sell it as a whole-owned condo complex.  It has so few amenities, and the units seem more like condos than a resort property.  I wish we could just do it tomorrow, and so does Philip, but dissolving a timeshare requires 100% cooperation from the owners, and some people are very attached to their weeks, so they won't go for it.  The 3 bedroom units would easily sell for $220K furnished, in this market.  Some owners paid over $15K for their single ski weeks.  There is no way to give them back what they think their weeks are worth.


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## rickandcindy23

In Colorado it is okay to charge lesser maintenance fees for weeks, but our HOA by-laws may need to be changed because they state that each unit pays the same share.  

Alan, RCI won't allow any non-rated resort to be in RCI points at this time.  But Twin Rivers works very well as PFD.


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## AwayWeGo

*Apparently Some Non-Rated Timeshares Are More Equal Than Others.*




rickandcindy23 said:


> RCI won't allow any non-rated resort to be in RCI points at this time.


My dinky points timeshare in the USA heartland is standard grade (i.e., non-rated). 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rickandcindy23

AwayWeGo said:


> My dinky points timeshare in the USA heartland is standard grade (i.e., non-rated).
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



RCI is not allowing any non-rated resorts into RCI Points--for the time being, anyway.  I suppose they may change at some point, and it certainly seems to be the opposite of their past stance, that all resorts would eventually be converted to points.  Perhaps PFD is here to stay, since RCI is determined to raise the level of Points Resorts.


----------



## "Roger"

rickandcindy23 said:


> ... and it certainly seems to be the opposite of their past stance, that all resorts would eventually be converted to points...


I am not sure that was ever their policy, but rather a scare tactic used by those opposed to points.  Points came out at the same time that RCI was mulling over creating a premier club.  I think that this is how they envisioned the program - greater benefits (at a price, of course).


----------



## bnoble

> The market within the exchange system determines what a week is worth.


That's a sweet sentiment, but it's wrong.  The rental market determines what a week is truly worth.  The days of closed-market exchange systems are over.

You might not like it (and I would be better off if it weren't true), but them's the facts.  Accept it.


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## Carolinian

All that accomplishes is to make the lack of value of a blue week even more obvious, and make the bailouts come faster.

Also you seem to be suggesting FORCING people into points, something that would set off a revolution to overthrow the board at many resorts.




AwayWeGo said:


> No problem.
> 
> Tax'em all the same.
> 
> Charge'm all the same maintenance fees.
> 
> Then assign'm all variable points values according to the primeness of the demand seasons of the respective weeks.
> 
> I mean, shux, something like that is already being done via the Red-White-Blue hierarchy of demand-season color-coding.  So it's hard to imagine any administrative or quasi-legal barrier to formalizing something along the same lines via points valuation, which after all is out there in the open for everyone to see, right or wrong, unlike the vague & mysterious _Trade Power_ formula of Red & White & Blue weeks that is known only to the back-room gnomes of RCI.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Case closed.
> 
> Ready for the next case.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Carolinian

"Roger" said:


> I am not sure that was ever their policy, but rather a scare tactic used by those opposed to points.  Points came out at the same time that RCI was mulling over creating a premier club.  I think that this is how they envisioned the program - greater benefits (at a price, of course).



It also came out at the same time their big rental to the public program kicked in, and I thnk that is the biggest connection points has with anything else.


----------



## Carolinian

bnoble said:


> That's a sweet sentiment, but it's wrong.  The rental market determines what a week is truly worth.  The days of closed-market exchange systems are over.
> 
> You might not like it (and I would be better off if it weren't true), but them's the facts.  Accept it.



As long as RCI is allowed to skim the system for rentals for their own benefit, a massive conflict of interest with their quasi-fiduciary obligations to their exchange depositors, I think you have identified the root cause of the problem in RCI's exchange system.

There are other HONEST exchange companies out there which do not skim for rentals, and that is where you find an honest timeshare exchange market these days.  We just need to work to grow the participation in the honest exchange companies.

The fact that RCI skims for rentals makes them an okay company to use for rentals but an awful company to use for exchanges.


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## Egret1986

*I didn't mean to offend.  From your posts, there doesn't seem to be anything positive*



Carolinian said:


> Gee that's a term I haven't seen on TUG for a long time.  Some years ago, people here were being characterized here as either ''RCI apologists'' or ''RCI bashers''.  I hope we are not going back to those days.
> 
> I have nothing per se against RCI as a company, but I do have quite a bit of concern about the customer-unfriendly and self-serving policies they have adopted since the Cendent takeover of RCI.  When Cristel DeHaan was running the show and RCI was an independent company, they created what was the greatest timeshare exchange company that has ever existed.  Unfortunately, they have been marching steadily backward since Cendent came on the scene.  I would love to see RCI get back to its old self.
> 
> It has sometimes been amusing to debate some of the RCI ''deniers'' on these boards, the ones who always see anything RCI does through rose-colored glasses.  I remember when the Seasons timeshare chain newsletter came out announcing they were jumping ship to II, and several Tuggers noted that what Seasons managment was saying about the dangers of rentals and points were exactly what I had been warning about for months.  I was even accused of writing that newsletter.  I also remember when I was the very first one on TUG to point out that RCI was going to go into the rental business to the general public.  It was a simple matter of analysis and common sense.  RCI was just rolling out GPN, which became RCI Points, and in a TUG moderated chat presided over by Fern, RCI was asked what they would do with the timeshare weeks they got in exchange for points partners exchanges and they responded that they would use them to introduce new people to timesharing.  I immediately saw that as a euphemism for rentals to the public, especially since RCI would have to pay in some way for what they gave people in points partner exchanges.  Some of the deniers jumped me on that and said absolutely not, RCI would never, NEVER, be renting our timeshare inventory to the general public.  Their knee jerk defense of RCI in the face of the obvious was astounding, but it was not long that RCI acknowledged they were renting.  One of those deniers who was probably the most argumentative on this issue of rentals at that juncture is still at it, and has even posted in the threads about RCI's most recent changes, still blindly defending anything RCI does.
> 
> In dealing with RCI into the future, one really has to seperate their rental side from their exchange side.  Yes, they are unreliable on the exchange side, and the response until that changes is not to give them any deposits.  But one also has to consider their rental side, which at least at present offers good value in many but not all cases.  The solution is to change strategies to use them where they still provide good value, which is rentals.  At this point, I do not know how to do that at the best value without continuing on as a member.  That does not mean I approve of what they are doing with exchanges.  I certainly do not. It just means I don't hate the company and as long as they offer good value on a fair number of rentals that I would use, I don't mind continuing to use them for that limited purpose.



I must have missed those posts.  It just seemed odd that you were renewing your RCI membership to me.  

I just don't understand why some folks on TUG berate the company, but continue on with their memberships.  There has to be some benefit they're getting if they continue to pay for a membership.  A membership is a choice.

I don't think I look at RCI through rose-colored glasses.  I am aware what they're doing.  You, as well as others, have shared what RCI does and I'm not in denial.  RCI has worked for me since I first joined in 1984.  I've never felt the need to use any other company as a means for my timesharing needs.  I wring out everything I can get from my membership.  I think of RCI as I do the timeshare I bought from the developer on the Outer Banks when I first became an RCI member.  I got 25 years out of that blue week and wrung every drop of value and much more out of it.  This year, I felt it no longer served my needs, so I found someone that wanted it gave it to them.  I got 10+ times the value out of it than I put into it.  RCI helped me accomplish that.  When RCI no longer works and I receive less value from being a member than not, then I will get rid of my membership and move on.  

To me rose-colored glasses would be hoping and dreaming that RCI would return to the days of old.  That's not going to happen.

I didn't realize that in the past there was "RCI apologists" and "RCI bashers".  I didn't mean to touch a nerve.  I apologize for my remark.


----------



## Egret1986

*Okay, I thought I had missed the positive RCI posts by Carolinian*



tombo said:


> Carolinian, why would you extend your membership after saying nothing good about RCI for ages? If I felt like you say you feel, I would quit in protest. Surely you should at least quit on principle.
> 
> I am reminded of people who complain about their job day after day, talking about how much more money they should be making, how much better other employers treat their employees, how their company couldn't make it without them, but they never seem to QUIT their job and go somewhere else where it is better.
> 
> Why are you CONTINUING TO PAY for RCI? This is the company you describe as a horrible, week stealing, owner inventory renting, supposed exchange company which is in reality nothing more than a rental company where you can NEVER GET A DECENT EXCHANGE. Yet you EXTEND YOUR MEMBERSHIP? You can't have it both ways if you are honest. It is either a horrible company you refuse to give another dollar of your money to and which you quit, or else they are a company which gives good value for the money they charge so you remain a paying member.
> 
> Your constant RCI slamming says that you think RCI is a company that no one should deal with, but rather than quitting, you pay them to extend your membership. So in reality your actions show that you personally feel that RCI is worth the money they charge to be a member. I would think that one would slow down on the anti RCI posts until they actually dislike RCI enough to no longer be a paying member, much less a member who just admitted that they payed to extend their membership in the same post that they were complaining about RCI.



You know there's a lot of posts and I could have missed that one.

But I promise not to use the term "RCI basher" ever again. I didn't realize that it was a worn-out term from years gone by. :ignore:


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Offering Voluntary Low-Cost Points Conversion As 1 More Option.*




Carolinian said:


> All that accomplishes is to make the lack of value of a blue week even more obvious, and make the bailouts come faster.


It's obvious already -- glaring, even. 

The idea is what to do about it to make the low-value weeks worth holding onto -- e.g., via points that can be used to snag outstanding reservations to stay at other people's timeshares.  By way of illustration, we use our points to get week-long reservations in nice timeshares for just 7*,*500 points for a full week. 



Carolinian said:


> Also you seem to be suggesting FORCING people into points, something that would set off a revolution to overthrow the board at many resorts.


Conversion could never be mandatory, but only 1 more choice to be offered to owners who currently aren't able to get much use out of their off-season timeshare weeks.  

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tombo

Egret1986 said:


> You know there's a lot of posts and I could have missed that one.
> 
> But I promise not to use the term "RCI basher" ever again. I didn't realize that it was a worn-out term from years gone by. :ignore:



"RCI slamming" must be the appropriate description because I didn't receive a response telling me that I was using obsolete terminology. If "RCI basher" is no longer acceptable, I wonder if "RCI denier" is also an unacceptable old and worn out description? Perhaps we are no longer termed "RCI deniers" and instead are correctly described as people who are happy RCI members even though RCI is not perfect.


----------



## "Roger"

Carolinian said:


> ...Also you seem to be suggesting FORCING people into points, something that would set off a revolution to overthrow the board at many resorts.


Actually I have suggested many times that boards should add the points as an _option_ in that people could choose for themselves and you have always forcefully said you would never support that. I hope that we are at least coming to agree on this issue that people should be given their individual choice and not be forced into either progam by an HOA.

[By the way, as I have mentioned before, if a resort were to make points an option, then those in Points could no longer use that resort in the PDF -  program something which you also oppose.  Having a resort add a points program would do double duty --- allow people to make their own individual choice and end the PDF program at those resorts.]


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> There are other HONEST exchange companies out there which do not skim for rentals, and that is where you find an honest timeshare exchange market these days.  We just need to work to grow the participation in the honest exchange companies.
> 
> The fact that RCI skims for rentals makes them an okay company to use for rentals but an awful company to use for exchanges.




Please list the HONEST exchange companies you pay to join that are better than RCI, and why you feel that they are better. I am always interested in a better option since I personally have been unable to find a better exchange company than RCI.

 Also let us in on the other DISHONEST companies (other than RCI) that you continue to voluntarily pay to be a member of and why you continue to support them even though you constantly "slam" them. Do you still fly Delta and do you use a Delta credit card to accumulate skymiles even though you constantly post negative things about Delta anytime they are mentioned? Flying Delta for you should be the equivalent of renewing your RCI membership since both companies get numerous posts from you describing them as DISHONEST. I assume Delta (like RCI) is OK for you to patronize, even though they are a DISHONEST company, as long as they occasionally provide a cheaper flight than you can find on another airline you consider more honest.

If I want to rent a week somewhere I will typically use Travelocity, Expedia, etc, and these companies don't require annual fees to be a member. In all of my years as a paying RCI member, RCI has never gotten a dollar of rental money from me other than last minute rentals (which is as we know very cheap). I don't want to pay $1000 plus a week for rentals when I can travel much cheaper using my timeshares or exchanging them. 

I use RCI almost exclusivelly for EXCHANGES. I know it is impossible to get a decent exchange with RCI, but amazingly I currently have 5 CONFIRMED EXCHANGES between now and September 2010 (and yes 2 have been confirmed since the enhancement). Even more amazing to some here, all exchanges are to locations and times I actually was excited to get, and most I feel are trades for places as good as if not better than what I deposited.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Moral Equivalency.*




tombo said:


> Perhaps we are no longer termed "RCI deniers" and instead are correctly described as people who are happy RCI members even though RCI is not perfect.


Basically Satisfied With RCI *=* RCI Can Do No Wrong. 

Plus, don't forget -- _Instant Exchange_ *=* _Raiding The Weeks Inventory._ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

Carolinian said:


> As long as RCI is allowed to skim the system for rentals for their own benefit, a massive conflict of interest with their quasi-fiduciary obligations to their exchange depositors, I think you have identified the root cause of the problem in RCI's exchange system.
> 
> There are other HONEST exchange companies out there which do not skim for rentals, and that is where you find an honest timeshare exchange market these days.  We just need to work to grow the participation in the honest exchange companies.
> 
> The fact that RCI skims for rentals makes them an okay company to use for rentals but an awful company to use for exchanges.



If you really want RCI to stop renting out inventory, stop renting the weeks they list for rent.  If the rentals go unrented, they will be returned to exchange inventory, problem solved. Don't complain about RCI stealing inventory to rent and then turn around and rent it yourself. People (like you) renting the cheap weeks is why they have a rental program. If you are truly outraged that they are renting out weeks that should be in the exchange pool, then don't rent the week allowing RCI to profit from their dishonest business practices!!!! You are proclaiming your outrage at their theft, and then turning around and remaining an RCI member for no other reason than to benefit from the cheap rentals that are only available because of the exact "DISHONEST BUSINESS PRACTICES" you are so incensed about!!!! It is like complaining abut thieves stealing everyone's car radios, and then buying a car radio from a guy on the corner because it was cheaper than you could buy it elsewhere.

You talk about a massive conflict of interest? You post constantly that it is wrong and dishonest for RCI to rent out owner's weeks, but then you rent them yourself because they are cheap!!!  I guess it is only wrong if RCI benefits from the unethical rentals, but not wrong if you do.


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## AwayWeGo

*No, No.  That's Not It At All.*




tombo said:


> I guess it is only wrong if RCI benefits from the unethical rentals, but not wrong if you do.


It's only wrong if RCI rents out banked timeshare weeks to the general non-timeshare-owning public. 

It is perfectly all right for RCI to rent out banked weeks to timeshare-owning members of RCI. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tombo

AwayWeGo said:


> It's only wrong if RCI rents out banked timeshare weeks to the general non-timeshare-owning public.
> 
> It is perfectly all right for RCI to rent out banked weeks to timeshare-owning members of RCI.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



It is not OK for RCI to rent to RCI members or non members if one feels that RCI should not rent out any deposited weeks because it is a breach of "their quasi-fiduciary obligations to their exchange depositors". Whether the renter is a member or non member, the week should have been in the exchange inventory rather than rental inventory because it was deposited by a member to be exchanged with another member. 

I actually agree 100% with Carolinian that RCI shouldn't be able to rent a single week that was deposited for exchange by members for any reason. RCI has loopholes in the members agreement allowing them to rent exchange inventory, but I wish that they couldn't, or at least wouldn't.


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## Carolinian

It seems some on these boards look only at personal feelings about a company, without any logic.  I tend to look at common sense as to what is in my own best interest.

Take Delta.  I switched my ff program to NW when DL first trashed theirs.  Still I participated in www.saveskymiles.com , which ultimately reversed that set of anti-customer changes.  I found NW's program so much better that I never went back even after DL waved a white flag and backed down on their changes.  During that period there were some on FlyerTalk who opposed the SaveSkyMiles effort and said we should just accept whatever Delta did.  Fortunately, most thought customer rights were worth fighting for.  When DL bought NW, they had again taken some negative anti-customer changes, so I comped my elite status over to CO.  Now when I moved to NW, I stopped totally putting flight miles on DL. I kept my DL Amex card long enough to build my balance to a usable cutoff, then dumped that.  I did not walk away from my SkyMiles account, which had several hundred thousand miles in it.  I continued to use those miles.  All new miles went to NW, but of course I was going to use my DL miles until I zeroed out that account.  Now in the takeover /merger they are snatching my NW miles as well, so I am burning those.

As to buying tickets, just because they have twice had major screwings of ff customers, I don't hate the company to the point of not buying tickets.  I have prefered to buy personal, family, and business tickets on NW, but if there is a DL ticket that works substantially better, I can put their miles on my NW account, so that has been my second choice.  Since the first of the year, I have still been flying NW because there are a lot of things I like about them even though they are now owned by DL, but of course I put my miles in my new CO OnePass elite account.  Come October, I will not be able to do that anymore, so I will have to choose between flying CO or one of its partners which will probably end up mostly CO, with UA as a backup.

I am simply not going to take these things personally as some suggest, and cut off my nose to spite my face.

The same is true of RCI.  Rental Condominiums International has some really good rentals and I have bagged several of them recently.  I will continue to.  They are continuing to screw exchange members, so depositing anything to exchange is another matter entirely.  I have done well on exchanges with DAE, and will continue using them and am also exploring SFX which will take one of my resorts.  I may also look more at HTSE, which seems to be a good company.   What impressed me about the honesty of DAE was when they caught their old Swiss office renting out some weeks from their exchange bank, it was no slap on the wrist.  They kicked them out of the organization.





tombo said:


> Please list the HONEST exchange companies you pay to join that are better than RCI, and why you feel that they are better. I am always interested in a better option since I personally have been unable to find a better exchange company than RCI.
> 
> Also let us in on the other DISHONEST companies (other than RCI) that you continue to voluntarily pay to be a member of and why you continue to support them even though you constantly "slam" them. Do you still fly Delta and do you use a Delta credit card to accumulate skymiles even though you constantly post negative things about Delta anytime they are mentioned? Flying Delta for you should be the equivalent of renewing your RCI membership since both companies get numerous posts from you describing them as DISHONEST. I assume Delta (like RCI) is OK for you to patronize, even though they are a DISHONEST company, as long as they occasionally provide a cheaper flight than you can find on another airline you consider more honest.
> 
> If I want to rent a week somewhere I will typically use Travelocity, Expedia, etc, and these companies don't require annual fees to be a member. In all of my years as a paying RCI member, RCI has never gotten a dollar of rental money from me other than last minute rentals (which is as we know very cheap). I don't want to pay $1000 plus a week for rentals when I can travel much cheaper using my timeshares or exchanging them.
> 
> I use RCI almost exclusivelly for EXCHANGES. I know it is impossible to get a decent exchange with RCI, but amazingly I currently have 5 CONFIRMED EXCHANGES between now and September 2010 (and yes 2 have been confirmed since the enhancement). Even more amazing to some here, all exchanges are to locations and times I actually was excited to get, and most I feel are trades for places as good as if not better than what I deposited.


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## Carolinian

In the previous debates about RCI rigging the system against Weeks in the Points / Weeks interface by using a highly unfair (largely due to overaveraging) generic points grids for Points to Weeks trades, many pro-RCI posters told me if I coundn't beat them, I ought to join them and join Points so that I could plunder Weeks as well.  On the rental issue, they are taking the other position and saying I should NOT plunder the system.  

I look at things a little differently.  The way RCI is going about this rental thing is making them more and more of a Ponzi scheme.  The quicker it can be brought crashing down by members using the rentals, the quicker something better will take its place.  And, heck, I'd rather at least see the rentals go to bona fide members who are real timesharers rather than the general public.





tombo said:


> If you really want RCI to stop renting out inventory, stop renting the weeks they list for rent.  If the rentals go unrented, they will be returned to exchange inventory, problem solved. Don't complain about RCI stealing inventory to rent and then turn around and rent it yourself. People (like you) renting the cheap weeks is why they have a rental program. If you are truly outraged that they are renting out weeks that should be in the exchange pool, then don't rent the week allowing RCI to profit from their dishonest business practices!!!! You are proclaiming your outrage at their theft, and then turning around and remaining an RCI member for no other reason than to benefit from the cheap rentals that are only available because of the exact "DISHONEST BUSINESS PRACTICES" you are so incensed about!!!! It is like complaining abut thieves stealing everyone's car radios, and then buying a car radio from a guy on the corner because it was cheaper than you could buy it elsewhere.
> 
> You talk about a massive conflict of interest? You post constantly that it is wrong and dishonest for RCI to rent out owner's weeks, but then you rent them yourself because they are cheap!!!  I guess it is only wrong if RCI benefits from the unethical rentals, but not wrong if you do.


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## Carolinian

That is a blue smoke and mirrors solution.  What you are suggesting is people change to Points so that they can use Points backdoor into the Weeks 45 day window.  Don't you understand that it is the serious decline of the Weeks 45 day window that is the very cause of blue week bailout?  Why would they pay extra for a more convuluted way to do something that is their major present problem with the system?  Yeah they may get more than one 45 day window week, but it is the change in desirability of what is in the 45 day window that is the problem not the number of weeks you can get out of it.

RCI produced materials for years to promote the sale of off season weeks in order to use the 45 day window, resorts used them, and members bought on this premise.  Know RCI has made substantial changes that have knocked the props out from under those members and the resorts they own at by substanially degrading the 45 day window.  That is dirty pool any way you slice it.  Personally, I think the only fair thing is to lets Points members have discounts on last minute Points inventory and get their hands out of the pockets of the Weeks system entirely.




AwayWeGo said:


> It's obvious already -- glaring, even.
> 
> The idea is what to do about it to make the low-value weeks worth holding onto -- e.g., via points that can be used to snag outstanding reservations to stay at other people's timeshares.  By way of illustration, we use our points to get week-long reservations in nice timeshares for just 7*,*500 points for a full week.
> 
> Conversion could never be mandatory, but only 1 more choice to be offered to owners who currently aren't able to get much use out of their off-season timeshare weeks.
> 
> Is this a great country or what ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*No Smoke.  No Mirrors.  More Choices.*

Via _Instant Exchange,_ points members pay a bargain rate for a week they like _better_ than their own.  

Sure, it's a crapshoot -- not that straight-weeks exchanges aren't.  Points members get a choice between the known-quantity off-season blue week that they own on the 1 hand, or on the other hand whatever is still available on the weeks side to reserve for peanuts within 45 days of check-in.  No convolutions.  Bargain rates rather than paying extra.  No forced choices.  Same maintenance fees, etc., as owners who remain in weeks.  More options, not fewer.    

So far, via _Instant Exchange_ we have snagged Woodstone At Massanutten (twice), Cypress Pointe Grande Villas (Orlando FL), The Colonnade (Branson MO), Vistana Villages (Orlando FL), & I don't know what-all -- not a dog or a cat in the bunch (with the possible exception of The Colonnade, which pretty much made up for it by serving free breakfast every morning). 

Individual owners & exchangers have to work out ways of using the system that work advantageously for them, taking nothing for granted.  Generally speaking, offering more options & wider choices will expand people's opportunities for satisfying their individual needs & preferences. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> In the previous debates about RCI rigging the system against Weeks in the Points / Weeks interface by using a highly unfair (largely due to overaveraging) generic points grids for Points to Weeks trades, many pro-RCI posters told me if I coundn't beat them, I ought to join them and join Points so that I could plunder Weeks as well.  On the rental issue, they are taking the other position and saying I should NOT plunder the system.
> 
> I look at things a little differently.  The way RCI is going about this rental thing is making them more and more of a Ponzi scheme.  The quicker it can be brought crashing down by members using the rentals, the quicker something better will take its place.  And, heck, I'd rather at least see the rentals go to bona fide members who are real timesharers rather than the general public.



 I have posted numerous times that I don't like points. I assure you that I never told you to use the points system to plunder weeks. Unless someone convinces me otherwise you will never hear me say that I plundered using points or even became an owner of points because to me points is simply the newest ponzi scheme. If I post negative reviews about something, I don't turn around and patronize the business whether it is points or exchange companies unless my opinion changes. If my opinion does change, then I will post my mea culpas and kudos to the companies I once maligned.

Here comes the rationalizing. If you didn't rent the week, a non member might get it. It is going to rent whether you rent it or not. There are plenty of ways to justify it. However, if you really feel that the RCI rentals should stop, it is wrong for you to be a renter enabling them to make a profit while creating more demand for rental weeks. You can't morally defend a position where you say stealing weeks to rent for profit is wrong, but renting those stolen weeks because they are a bargain from the thief is acceptable. 

In your noble quest to topple RCI you will have to endure bargain priced vacation rentals, RCI will have to fight to survive after renting those weeks to you, and the weeks you rent from RCI are the same tainted weeks that you insist that they shouldn't offer to people to rent. You will show RCI that they shouldn't make a profit renting those stolen weeks by personally renting those stolen weeks and giving RCI profit. That will teach RCI a lesson. :rofl: RCI will come crashing down because you, at great sacrifice to yourself, will rent weeks you want from RCI cheaper than you could rent them anywhere else. RCI members will bow down and thank you because we will all benefit from your cheap vacations. You are going to selflessly keep renting from RCI until you rent RCI out of existence. :hysterical:  Could you actually type that explanation while keeping a straight face?


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## Carolinian

You are certainly not one of the pro-points crowd that made those suggestions, and I am sorry if you took it that I was saying that you were one of those.

No one person is going to make a difference in an operation the size of RCI, but the collective action of lots of customers can.

I haven't posted negative comments about the price of RCI's rentals.  Quite the contrary.




tombo said:


> I have posted numerous times that I don't like points. I assure you that I never told you to use the points system to plunder weeks. Unless someone convinces me otherwise you will never hear me say that I plundered using points or even became an owner of points because to me points is simply the newest ponzi scheme. If I post negative reviews about something, I don't turn around and patronize the business whether it is points or exchange companies unless my opinion changes. If my opinion does change, then I will post my mea culpas and kudos to the companies I once maligned.
> 
> Here comes the rationalizing. If you didn't rent the week, a non member might get it. It is going to rent whether you rent it or not. There are plenty of ways to justify it. However, if you really feel that the RCI rentals should stop, it is wrong for you to be a renter enabling them to make a profit while creating more demand for rental weeks. You can't morally defend a position where you say stealing weeks to rent for profit is wrong, but renting those stolen weeks because they are a bargain from the thief is acceptable.
> 
> In your noble quest to topple RCI you will have to endure bargain priced vacation rentals, RCI will have to fight to survive after renting those weeks to you, and the weeks you rent from RCI are the same tainted weeks that you insist that they shouldn't offer to people to rent. You will show RCI that they shouldn't make a profit renting those stolen weeks by personally renting those stolen weeks and giving RCI profit. That will teach RCI a lesson. :rofl: RCI will come crashing down because you, at great sacrifice to yourself, will rent weeks you want from RCI cheaper than you could rent them anywhere else. RCI members will bow down and thank you because we will all benefit from your cheap vacations. You are going to selflessly keep renting from RCI until you rent RCI out of existence. :hysterical:  Could you actually type that explanation while keeping a straight face?


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## Carolinian

So these are your great last minute exchanges???? ALL in overbuilt areas?  I guess you could also do well in other overbuilt areas like the Canary Islands or Williamsburg.  In the old days, the 45 day window got stuff a lot better than just overbuilt areas.  That is what many of these owners are upset about.  And all you are talking about is a different way to get back to the same place, the 45 day window, and it is the very place that no longer performs like it used to, or anywhere close.




AwayWeGo said:


> Via _Instant Exchange,_ points members pay a bargain rate for a week they like _better_ than their own.
> 
> Sure, it's a crapshoot -- not that straight-weeks exchanges aren't.  Points members get a choice between the known-quantity off-season blue week that they own on the 1 hand, or on the other hand whatever is still available on the weeks side to reserve for peanuts within 45 days of check-in.  No convolutions.  Bargain rates rather than paying extra.  No forced choices.  Same maintenance fees, etc., as owners who remain in weeks.  More options, not fewer.
> 
> So far, via _Instant Exchange_ we have snagged Woodstone At Massanutten (twice), Cypress Pointe Grande Villas (Orlando FL), The Colonnade (Branson MO), Vistana Villages (Orlando FL), & I don't know what-all -- not a dog or a cat in the bunch (with the possible exception of The Colonnade, which pretty much made up for it by serving free breakfast every morning).
> 
> Individual owners & exchangers have to work out ways of using the system that work advantageously for them, taking nothing for granted.  Generally speaking, offering more options & wider choices will expand people's opportunities for satisfying their individual needs & preferences.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Absolutely Great Exchanges, No Question.  And That's Just The Tip Of The Iceberg.*




Carolinian said:


> So these are your great last minute exchanges?


What makes value (i.e., great timeshare trades) is where _I_ want to go & when _I_ want to go there, which just might be why I find the system as it is reasonably satisfactory while more, uh -- um, er, ah *. . .* _discriminating_ travelers turn up their noses.   

Just my good fortune that I like timeshare vacationing in vacation spots that actually have lots of great timeshares. 

People who don't just might find the system & the selection less user-friendly. 

_Full Disclosure*:*_  It is OK to sneer at my vacation destinations.  It is also OK to point your finger & laugh.  If I like going to unsophisticated vacation spots, that's no skin off anybody else's nose. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Egret1986

*I don't consider my last minute exchanges overbuilt areas or dog seasons*



Carolinian said:


> So these are your great last minute exchanges???? ALL in overbuilt areas?  I guess you could also do well in other overbuilt areas like the Canary Islands or Williamsburg.  In the old days, the 45 day window got stuff a lot better than just overbuilt areas.  That is what many of these owners are upset about.  And all you are talking about is a different way to get back to the same place, the 45 day window, and it is the very place that no longer performs like it used to, or anywhere close.



Back-to-back February weeks at the Galleon in Key West, two March weeks at HGVC resorts on Marco Island, Easter week in Sanibel.  Not a one in the Canary Islands, Orlando or Williamsburg.

It doesn't really matter if they are overbuilt areas if he's happy with those exchanges and got them at a ridiculously low cost. 

I think somebody likes their cake and eating it, too; but also enjoys complaining about the person that baked it and fussing at the others around the table enjoying the cake and telling them that the ingredients in that cake are eventually going to kill them.


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## Egret1986

*Agreed!!  It takes "collective action" of LOTS of customers.*



Carolinian said:


> No one person is going to make a difference in an operation the size of RCI, but the collective action of lots of customers can.



On TUG, there was an attempt at collective action after the enhancements to have the masses call and complain and shut down RCI (or at least make a bold attempt) at 9:00 am on a Friday morning.  I doubt RCI felt a thing.  

I do believe there are disgruntled folks in the general population (not just TUG); but I also believe this group is a minority as compared to the group that are happy, satisfied, a bit less than satisfied and those that just accept the status quo rather than doing something.

Another case of this is when some TUGGERS reacted to the unfair settlement and suggested no RCI members on TUG should agree to the $20 compensation or whatever else was thrown to the members.  There were only a few people willing to do that.  Many said they weren't happy with the settlement, but that they felt they should go ahead and put in for that $20.  I didn't put in for the $20, simply because it wasn't worth my effort; not because I was taking a stand against the settlement one way or the other.

If there is a majority of unhappy RCI members, that alone will topple RCI.  But as long the unhappy are a minority, then things will continue on.


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## tombo

Carolinian said:


> You are certainly not one of the pro-points crowd that made those suggestions, and I am sorry if you took it that I was saying that you were one of those.
> 
> No one person is going to make a difference in an operation the size of RCI, but the collective action of lots of customers can.
> 
> I haven't posted negative comments about the price of RCI's rentals.  Quite the contrary.




No offense taken. I hope you aren't taking any offense either as much of what I post is tongue in cheek.

I said that you are willing to rent weeks because the prices are good. You complain about RCI renting the weeks, not the price you rent them for. That is the point. You aren't renting to break RCI's back, you are renting because it is cheap for you. The weeks you are renting are the weeks you complain about RCI offering or rent. There is some incongruity here, nes pas?

The theory that members could stop RCI from renting exchange inventory by collectivelly renting as much RCI rental inventory as possible is hard to follow. The more weeks they rent, the more money they make. The more money they make the more weeks they will steal from exchange inventory to rent out. TUGGERS and other timeshare knowledgable RCI members are a small percent of the total. The masses will simply keep paying, keep depositing, and RCI will keep on smiling all the way to the bank. I think that increasing the rental activity on RCI will actually increase the amount of weeks they steal to be able to handle the increased rental demand and make their bottom line better. RCI already knows that rental income beats exchange fee income.


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## "Roger"

Ponzi scheme?  I understand that many people don't like RCI practices and maybe they are wrong, but that doesn't make them a Ponzi scheme.


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## rickandcindy23

This thread has really veered from the original OP's intent to find out our strategies in dealing with the RCI changes.  

I hope the OP doesn't mind, but I kinda do mind.  I keep hoping it will get back to the subject, because I would like to know what others intend to do with their weeks, now that so many have been downgraded by 20-40K weeks that were available for exchange just a few weeks ago.  

I commented at how disgusted I am about my drop in trading power, then this thread kind of morphed into an argument as to why it should have been downgraded.  Then it really became an old argument about RCI and their rental program.  

Well, I would never have given the weeks to RCI, if they didn't trade into the Hawaii and Disney resorts I could see with my other weeks.  So I now have a bunch of mediocre exchangers, and _my plan is to use them for the absolute best exchanges I can get, 2 weeks in a row at resorts with the 1-in-? rules, on purpose, the largest units I can get, even if it's just the two of us, and then I won't be using weeks anymore_.  I am going to sell my summer Val Chatelle weeks through the resort's newsletter that have ALWAYS traded for the best resorts, and I will buy more weeks that will get me my choice of resorts in II, like SDO.  That is my plan.  

I may PFD one of the 8 weeks I have in my account into RCI Points, and it is literally the only one of the eight that qualifies, since one Val Chatelle week is long past, and two are blue weeks.  VRI made sure Foxrun is an RCI Points resort.  This is at a high profit to the management company for the conversions, which is scandalous and not in the best interests of the owners, allowed by to do this by a clueless HOA board of directors,  in my opinion.   The only good Foxrun week is a non-converted one deposited into II, even though II must be nuts to take those weeks and offer AC's every year.   

That is my plan.   I may even PFD my two blue Val Chatelle weeks for 2009, even though they only get 19,500 points for $480 maintenance fees.  I can always get something with the 39K points that has some value to me, more than a blue week that won't even pull last-minute exchanges, the way it used to.


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## rickandcindy23

Egret1986 said:


> Back-to-back February weeks at the Galleon in Key West, two March weeks at HGVC resorts on Marco Island, Easter week in Sanibel.  Not a one in the Canary Islands, Orlando or Williamsburg.
> 
> It doesn't really matter if they are overbuilt areas if he's happy with those exchanges and got them at a ridiculously low cost.
> 
> I think somebody likes their cake and eating it, too; but also enjoys complaining about the person that baked it and fussing at the others around the table enjoying the cake and telling them that the ingredients in that cake are eventually going to kill them.



Those kinds of exchanges are no longer available, as far as I can tell.  I have been watching for several areas of the country for last-minute every night, for a summer trip we hadn't thought we wanted and didn't plan for, and I see very little in RCI.  Palm Springs isn't a place I want to go in July-August.  With II, on the other hand, I have been able to secure a "silver" 2 bedroom in San Diego with my AC for late July, and I had choices.  Need I remind you that RCI is much larger, supposedly with 3 times the inventory of II.  

I want to use my weeks for last-minute exchanges in RCI, but where are they?  They aren't even in Last Call.


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## donnaval

> Back-to-back February weeks at the Galleon in Key West, two March weeks at HGVC resorts on Marco Island, Easter week in Sanibel. Not a one in the Canary Islands, Orlando or Williamsburg.



As Cindy said--these last-minute exchanges seem to be gone if you're using a blue week.  I made some buying mistakes early in my timeshare life, and am stuck with a couple of blue weeks.  They're GC resorts, 2-br units, and blue verging on white--but they don't trade very well.  People do seem to like them, because when I deposit them they do not last very long in the system.  If I could do it over again, of course I would not have bought these weeks.  But I have them, I can't sell them, and I am making the best of them.  

One bright point in owning these was the ability to use these weeks for the 45-day inventory.  In the past I had picked up a prime Marco Island at 10 days out.  An unrated late spring Outer Banks at 2 weeks out. An unrated May Florida beach at 2 weeks out. My units were definitely nicer overall than the two unrated units, but I did get a trade up in season, coupled with a downgrade in quality and size.  I never expected any trades like that during "normal" exchange periods, but considered them very fair for last-minute availability.   Since the "enhancement" my weeks pull almost nothing in the 45-day inventory--not even at 14 days and under.

I can see that there are plenty of weeks available during the 45-day period if I use my points account.  On a recent night, there were 23 resorts to choose from in my area of interest using my points account. I would have needed to use only about 1/4 of a week's allotment of points to book any of those units. Switching to the weeks account, my blue week could see only 6 of these same resorts.  Six, versus 23!  Switch back to points, there were 21 remaining (two prime goodies got snapped up right away).  The points account was looking at weeks inventory.  

Does it make sense to anyone that a fraction of the points from my LESS-than-mediocre points resort can see all of this available last-minute stuff, while I cannot see it with a not-too-bad GC 2br unit that disappeared from the inventory within a day of my depositing it?

And as for switching all the ownerships to points--well, that will pretty much wipe out the great points deals, won't it?  If I understand it correctly, once the resort is no longer a weeks resort, units are only available at the standard reservation rate.  No more bargain-basement 45-day point rate.  I'll be very happy if someone tells me I'm wrong about that!

If this dearth of 45-day and under exchanges continues, I will definitely need a new strategy.  So far, I think my strategy is going to involve setting up one resort that is dual-affiliated with II, and depositing the other one into TPI.  With TPI the selection is limited, but  I can trade for anything available, and will also get a bonus week for my blue weeks as long as I deposit them at least 120 days in advance of check-in.  The bonus week is only good on last-minute inventory, which is how I was using those weeks anyway.


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## rickandcindy23

Donna, same thing here.  The < 9,000 point availability is there on the "weeks" side of RCI Points, but it isn't there for my blue weeks when I log into Weeks at all.  So I am thinking of depositing those two blue weeks into RCI Points and get two for one.  It's my strategy for those weeks (in keeping with the topic of the OP).


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## donnaval

Unfortunately I won't be able to use that strategy Cindy--and it's a good one!  Both of my blue weeks are Wyndham fixed week units and so are considered ineligible for PFD.  Also, both of the ones I have are already past their usage date so I wouldn't be able to PFD them even if they would take them.


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## Carolinian

That the WEEKS 45 day window is still open for the outsiders from the Points system or renters from the general public but NOT open to the members of that system itself is an absolute outrage!  Points into weeks issues were in one of the two origianl class action lawsuits, but got dropped when the two were consolidated.  Maybe there needs to be a new class action that focuses on this issue, but with honest lawyers rather than self seeking shysters like those who handled the existing class action.

This leads me to another change in position.  I have long advocated HOA's dual affiliating with both RCI and II.  This move on closing even that inventory that still remains in the Weeks 45 day window to Weeks members is an extreme anti-resort move by RCI.  Resorts should follow the lead of Seasons and simply jump ship to II.  Tell RCI to get stuffed!

I was afraid it might get this bad when some on TUG posted that RCI had quietly removed all mention of the 45 day window from their materials on Weeks.  The Points system is nothing but a parasite on the back of Weeks and needs to be plucked off.  The only fair way to do things is to put a firewall between the systems - Points trading only in Points and Weeks only in Weeks.

I have never been a ''45 day window person'', have not owned blue weeks myself in years, and would not have known the degree to which RCI is hosing blue week owners without the comments shared on this forum.  I am outraged not because this impacts me personally, but I understand the dynamics of the system the old RCI created on which the bueinss plan of resorts were based, how it is practically impossible for most resorts to now alter that business plan, and how the way RCI is pulling the rug out from under its resorts with its new business plan has the real potential to financially devastate them.  When 2011 m/f's come due, I will bet that there are going to be a lot of blue week bailouts at a lot of resorts, and it will all be RCI's fault.  Resorts need to try to preempt that by moving strictly to II and by educating members about the ability to use independents.  Resorts need to fight back for their own survival.


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## kkelley

"For years, what really made off season weeks viable in the exchange market was the 45 day window, when essentially any week could get any week that was left. That made market sense, as anything still in the spacebank then had a limited shelf life and an inherently lower value. It was distressed inventory. In the travel industry, it is not uncommon to discount such inventory. Members however did not think of this and had the illusion they were getting a really good trade. RCI did two things that dried up the 45 day window and resorts started seeing bailouts. One was to open the Weeks 45 day window to Points members, when RCI does not discount short term Points inventory for Weeks or Points members. The other was to start renting 45 day inventory to the general public. Both of these things resulted in less availibility in the 45 day window."

I think this is where I was (although I do have a floating week (that I can usually get them to give me a great week to trade) in a gold crown, red etc etc). . . I could always find something that allowed me to vacation where I wanted and then once in awhile I could come up with an amazing trade that was frosting on the cake. 

And I do think that the changing of this standard is a somewhat unethical change in the sense that I don't believe Weeks traders have any access to Points traders that would duplicate that change. (someone correct me if I am wrong). And that deposit for trade weeks should stay in deposit for trade classification instead of racking over to rentals. OR that there was a hefty discount on price for trading weeks that are moved over.

*But mostly I posted the question to see if I could get some ideas on how to deal with the changes that have occurred. We have adjusted our Aug/Sept. plan because I think it is fairly unlikely to get what we need etc. 

I am still looking at the next June trip and again would welcome any suggestions about that vacation. *


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## bnoble

As more information comes in, the Weeks vs. Points thing appears to be due to the Weeks web site still being screwed up.  To fix the hideous performance problems from early/mid-June, it appears that RCI now only "copies" updates made to the "real" inventory set over to the Weeks side every so often, while Points (using the "old" search interface) goes all the way through to the "real" inventory.  So, Weeks is always just a little bit out of date.

Because the LM stuff comes in at all times of the day, and because of what looks like stale data on the Weeks side, I think it would be wise to initiate an ongoing search for a fairly broad list of resort IDs, (or perhaps a specific area if all the resorts in that area are okay for you) for the week(s) you could consider.  Remember that you have to initiate more than 30 days prior to check in.


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## Carolinian

The problem of the shrinking of inventory in the 45 day window has been a gradual and ongoing process for several years.  Part of it comes simply from less inventory when Points people can take out several weeks for one weeks worth of points put in, and the weeks being diverted to rental.  This latest fiddling with the system has been the first time that Week 45 day inventory was offered to Points but not Weeks members.

At the resort I served on the board of on the OBX, we had three members who owned 4-6 off season weeks and traded in RCI.  One often came to HOA meetings and another I have talked to on the phone.  The third I have never met.  Two of those bailed out of ownership roughly three years ago when it was obvious to them that the 45 day window was no longer producing results.  The third has had all of his weeks for sale, as a group and at an unrealistic price for about that long.  The two I have talked to were in it strictly for the 45 day window, and when they percieved that was going, so did they, and they perceived it long before the latest fiddling by RCI.

Also in talking with the local resale / rental t/s broker, they had never had people explain their desire to sell their weeks on the basis of a decline in RCI trading until about four years ago, and now it was the most frequent reason given by sellers.  What is amazing is that since the majority of OBX timesharers do not use exchange companies, it would indicate a much higher proportion of exchangers trying to sell than own-to-use people.


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## Jennie

tombo said:


> I will somehow learn to be happy when less junk inventory is available to trade for and more quality inventory remains available.



The quality inventory will be available---at RCI's rental websites.
RCI is more likely to skim off the best weeks. The ones you *think* you will find in the exchange bank are dwindling. If RCI's rental sites don't get all of them, you'll find owners renting them themselves for big $$$. They then use the proceeds to rent what they want directly from other owners. The day may come when you *wish *people who own nice weeks at middle of the road resorts will come back to RCI. Half a loaf is better than nothing.

I'm a member of a large NY timeshare owners group. Collectively our members own hundreds of Marriotts, Hilton Grands, Starwoods, Diamond Resorts, etc...They stopped depositing with RCI and I.I. years ago, once they became aware of the rental skimming. They make a lot of free one on one exchanges with other members, and/or rent or use their weeks themselves. 

So please don't be so smug and elitist. RCI's unfair behavior is having a large impact upon the industry and you are not immune to the fallout.


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## Jennie

jamstew said:


> I'm not looking to go to Hawaii, just Orlando, which everyone says is one of the most overbuilt destinations. I don't expect DVC (I'm an owner so I don't need it). I just can't get Bonnet Creek, the one I really need, and I don't understand why.  :annoyed:



Are you sure it's not a geographical block causing the problem? Most people who own at one Orlando resort are not allowed to trade into any other Orlando property.


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## Lisa P

Jennie, II has a regional/geographical block for most resorts in Orlando.  RCI only seems to have a regional block for trading into DVC and "jamstew" was not searching for that.  Wyndham Bonnet Creek only trades through RCI and there's definitely no regional block for this resort.  The inventory for Wyn BC is bulk deposited a month or two at a time (so one must wait until the bulk banking) and it generally goes pretty quickly, compared with many other Orlando area resorts.  However, with the June changes, many people saw a sudden decrease in availability at this resort, particularly for the 2BRs.  It was quite noticeable, IMO, and it's not returned to the same levels either.

If the class action only puts constraints on skimming/rentals of inventory which is deposited more than 12 months out, then ALL bulk spacebankings from the big developers will still be ripe for skimming.  Wyndham, HGVC, WorldMark, DVC and Bluegreen all seem to make their corporate deposits under 12 months out so that owners may have first shot at reserving internally with points.  RCI doesn't even get many prime holiday weeks from these companies as it is.  If they skim the ones they get, there will be nothing at the premier company resorts left for RCI exchangers but offseason stays.     Not good.


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## jamstew

Right, it wasn't the regional block in my case--BC just simply wasn't there any more. But no worries--I bought it instead


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## Jennie

Lisa P said:


> If the class action only puts constraints on skimming/rentals of inventory which is deposited more than 12 months out, then ALL bulk spacebankings from the big developers will still be ripe for skimming.  Wyndham, HGVC, WorldMark, DVC and Bluegreen all seem to make their corporate deposits under 12 months out so that owners may have first shot at reserving internally with points.  RCI doesn't even get many prime holiday weeks from these companies as it is.  If they skim the ones they get, there will be nothing at the premier company resorts left for RCI exchangers but off season stays.     Not good.



You are "preaching to the choir". This is one of the main points that we "Objectors" have been making to the Court re: the proposed settlement of the RCI lawsuit. The "more than one year" deposit rule would also adversely affect most owners of "floating weeks" since most resorts do not allow floating weeks to be reserved more than one year prior to the check-in date. 

I'm so glad you made this point about the timing of developer bulk spacebank deposits. It's another complaint to add to the long list of items that need further negotiation and change before we stop "objecting."


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## Carolinian

Jennie said:


> You are "preaching to the choir". This is one of the main points that we "Objectors" have been making to the Court re: the proposed settlement of the RCI lawsuit. The "more than one year" deposit rule would also adversely affect most owners of "floating weeks" since most resorts do not allow floating weeks to be reserved more than one year prior to the check-in date.
> 
> I'm so glad you made this point about the timing of developer bulk spacebank deposits. It's another complaint to add to the long list of items that need further negotiation and change before we stop "objecting."



If we are talking about bulkbanking of member deposits, you are dead on the money.  Of course, if the developer is bulkbanking developer inventory, there is less of a case to control what RCI is doing with it.

One thing that is needed is an independent monitor to look over RCI's shoulder.  With the way they have behaved over the last few years, could they be trusted to follow whatever rules are established if they just monitor themselves?


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## Jennie

tombo said:


> As I said before, Europe is of limited demand in the US RCI. I never hear any TUGGER other than you who goes to europe every year other than those who live in Europe... The demand for europe is probaly nowhere near what you think it is here in the US. Even though inventory is limited, there are not a lot of people fighting over it...Out of the people who post the most on TUG very few that I recognize have discussed their recent or future trip to Europe besides you. Not that tuggers don't vacation there, it just isn't an annual or semi-annual trip for most like most high demand RCI locations...I think that most RCI USA members and most Tuggers travel like me...with Europe and SA being a once in the blue moon trade.



We've made seven trips to Europe over a ten year period, staying in timeshares via exchange each time. Because of the higher airfare and longer travel time, we stayed a month each time, spending weeks back-to-back in different timeshares and areas. We would rent a car in one city or country and drop it off in another city or country at the end of our vacation. It took a lot of time and energy lining up consecutive weeks but it was so worth the effort.

Some of the timeshares were located in or near major cities (London, Brighton, Paris, Rome, Venice, Copenhagen, Munich, Dublin, Cannes) and some were in seaside, mountain or forest towns and villages where locals like to vacation in the summer. 

On one 5 week vacation, we rented a car at the Frankfurt Airport and drove through Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Lichtenstein, Denmark (took the car there via ferry across the Black Sea) and Stockholm, using our timeshares as a home base while occasionally staying in a b&b overnight. We put 4500 miles on that car. On other trips we used a combination of rental car and trains. We took an overnight bus trip to Prague, arranged by the German timeshare we were staying at, for an extremely reasonable price.

Out of the approximate 100 exchanges we have made since 1995, the European timeshares were by far the most memorable and exciting. At the usual Orientation meetings, we met other timeshare owners from all over the world, but the majority were Americans. The resorts gave us honest and very helpful information about local customs, restaurants, area attractions, shopping, using local transportation, etc... 

The comraderie between employees and guests, and between us and the other guests staying at the timeshare, was superior to anything we have ever experienced during our U.S. timeshare exchanges. We were able to experience the everyday lives of average citizens in the towns. Our experience if we had stayed in a "name brand" hotel in a large European city would not have been as authentic. We remain in good contact with a couple from Sydney, Australia, a police chief from Germany, and a school teacher from Denmark that we met on our European vacations. Each subsequently visited us in New York City.

I have been a long-time member of a New York timeshare owners group. Almost all of our members have made multiple timeshare exchanges to Europe and those who haven't, are planning to do so, especially when they retire. Many, like us, used RCI to obtain the exchanges in earlier years. But since the availability of European weeks has been steadily dwindling via RCI, most deposit and exchange through Dial-an-Exchange. 

As far as U.S. exchanges are concerned, we long ago stopped depositing our best weeks. We either use them ourselves or rent them and use the rental proceeds to rent what we want directly from other owners. 

I am convinced that RCI skims off the best weeks depoited by members into the space bank and rents them to the general public for their own greedy purposes. It may increase the company's bottom line for awhile but it will have long-term negative consequences on the entire timeshare industry in the coming years. But what do the current executives at RCI care about that. They will be enjoying life with their golden parachutes with nary a care about the rubble they have left behind. 

Tombo, you are intelligent and contribute a lot of good information and advice to TUGgers. But it is a bit presumptous of you to think that your personal vacation preferences is representative of the desires of the 1.6 million U.S RCI Weeks members. Most Americans, timeshare owners or not, dream of visiting many areas of Europe. We won't do it every year. But when we go, there is so much to see and do that we will tend to use multiple back-to-back exchanges on each trip.


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## Jennie

Carolinian said:


> If we are talking about bulkbanking of member deposits, you are dead on the money.  Of course, if the developer is bulkbanking developer inventory, there is less of a case to control what RCI is doing with it.



RCI is actually admitting that they remove deposited weeks from the spacebank and make them available for rent to the general (non-timeshare owner) public. In the proposed settlement of the class action lawsuit, they say that they will not take out more weeks than they replace from other sources. (God only knows what the ratio has been up until now). We "Objectors" believe that RCI should not remove *any* weeks at all, unless they are unlikely to be reserved by Weeks members. 

RCI claims it replaces removed weeks with weeks obtained from unspecified sources. It is assumed the weeks are given to RCI by developers, especially ones in active sales.  We suspect that this is done because the developer hopes that timeshare owners who exchange into the new resort will be more likely to succumb to the sales pitch and buy a week at the resort. After all, if the same developer weeks were rented to non-RCI members, at artificially low prices, what incentive would the renter have to pay big bucks to buy a week there?

It is totally agreed that, as Carolinian recommends,  "One thing that is needed is an independent monitor to look over RCI's shoulder.  With the way they have behaved over the last few years, could they be trusted to follow whatever rules are established if they just monitor themselves?"


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## rickandcindy23

Jennie, can I still write a letter to the judge or someone, to complain that RCI has devalued what we own through their rentals?  Where and to whom would I address this letter?


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## Judy

Jennie said:


> RCI is actually admitting that they remove deposited weeks from the spacebank and make them available for rent to the general (non-timeshare owner) public. In the proposed settlement of the class action lawsuit, they say that they will not take out more weeks than they replace from other sources.


And they appear to be living up to their promise.  Sadly, evidence suggests that they remove the good weeks to rent and make the undesirable ones available for exchange.


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## regatta333

Jennie said:


> RCI claims it replaces removed weeks with weeks obtained from unspecified sources. /QUOTE]
> 
> There have been a lot of sightings lately of hotel properties in various locations.  I wonder if RCI is bulk-buying excess rooms at a discount and using these to replace those timeshare units they rent out from the exchange pool.  While some of these locations do have some appeal, we will not exchange there since we are looking for an exchange with living room, kitchen facilities, etc.  That is why we became timeshare owners.  If I want a hotel room, I can go out and bid for one at Priceline, so these hotel units (with a very few limited exceptions) have no appeal to me.
> 
> I, too, have noticed that almost all of the desirable inventory, even within the 45-day window, is mostly only available by rental.  Carolinian is not the only TUG member who vacations in Europe.  We try to go once a year, always in shoulder season.  We only had one recent successful exchange through RCI and the accommodations were decidedly sub-par, and we have fairly low expectations for European timeshares.
> 
> For about three years' running, I've had ongoing search requests for about a dozen different resorts for a range of different dates.  In the past several weeks, I've gotten two separate calls from RCI saying they had a match for me.  The match was for a resort that was not on my list and had a mandatory half-board requirement.  I told them that I would only accept one of the resorts on the list and that I had no interest whatsoever in a mandatory board requirement.  Two weeks later I was called and offered the exact same resort and this time, the guide suggested I put it "on hold" to think about it and didn't even mention the board requirement.  However, I recognized the resort ID number and told him they had just contacted me about that.  I guess they recognize that they are not likely to rent a unit with a mandatory half-board when someone is on vacation in ITALY.


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