# No Smoking At Marriott Grande Vista [Merged threads]



## jyork9 (Jan 18, 2007)

I just want to know if anyone else is upset or concerned with the fact that without any notice to Owners (Like us) The Marriott Grande Vista changed to a total no smoking timeshare now. We bought with the expectations that we would always have smoking buildings available for our use. I tried to get a refund but good ole Marriott said tough s**T basically   
Any Thoughts??


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## Transit (Jan 18, 2007)

Weather it's fair or not it seems like all major hotel chains are going in that direction. Timeshares wont be far behind.


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## JMSH (Jan 18, 2007)

This will certainly lead to a lot of argument between both sides but I highly praise Marriott for keeping pace with the times. Being from Ontario Canada where there is a total ban on smoking in any public place including bar, restauraunts, hotels, work place etc. etc. and having a Father who is currently dying from emphysema I, as an owner at Grande Vista, welcome this change. I do not want to get into an argument about this but there is absolutely no benefit to anyone in smoking.


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## Andar (Jan 18, 2007)

One effect will be lower costs in cleaning, and replacing smoke damaged items.  Great decision.


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## maiwah (Jan 18, 2007)

As a non-smoking, with kids with asthma and myself with sensitive respiratory system, I am so thrilled that I now do not have to go through the trouble of specifying non-smoking requirements, and repeatedly need to exchange room when I checked into a room with strong smell of smoke from previous residence who ignored non-smoking sign on the floor.

My understanding is that all Marriott properties in United State are non-smoking now.


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## cluemeister (Jan 18, 2007)

When we toured Marriott Grand Chateau last year, we were told they had made a decision mid-construction to make the whole timeshare non smoking.


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## JMSH (Jan 18, 2007)

I take what I wrote to be too controversal, I apologize to the moderator I meant no disrespect.


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## somerville (Jan 18, 2007)

Several of my resorts are non-smoking now, and I appreciate that.  I just received a newsletter from Barony Beach informing owners that the only permissible smoking area at the resort is the villa balconies effective 4/1/07.  While I can appreciate the burden placed on smokers, the realty is that it is not practical to maintain smoking only units.  It is very difficult to remove the smell of smoke from the villas, and smoke can be an irritant to many guests long after the smoker has vacated the unit.  It can't be that much of an inconvenience to smoke outside on the balcony, especially considering that in most office buildings workers have to leave the building to smoke.  That said, It seems a little extreme that smoking is not permitted outdoors on the resort grounds.


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## amanda14 (Jan 18, 2007)

*I could be wrong*

But wasn't this change highlighted in the annual newletter that the GM sends to owners?


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## lostinjapan14 (Jan 19, 2007)

I agree that smoking isn't good for our health or for room maintenance, and I know that smokers probably realize that they can't fight these changes, but it still does seem a little unfair from a purely business perspective to change the rules/amenities of a resort after charging people thousands to buy in.  For example, if they made all the rooms smoking after we thought non-smoking rooms would be available, wouldn't that be a bit shady?


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## Jimbo (Jan 19, 2007)

somerville said:


> Several of my resorts are non-smoking now, and I appreciate that.  I just received a newsletter from Barony Beach informing owners that the only permissible smoking area at the resort is the villa balconies effective 4/1/07.  While I can appreciate the burden placed on smokers, the realty is that it is not practical to maintain smoking only units.  It is very difficult to remove the smell of smoke from the villas, and smoke can be an irritant to many guests long after the smoker has vacated the unit.  It can't be that much of an irritant to smoke outside on the balcony, especially considering that in most office buildings workers have to leave the building to work.  That said, It seems a little extreme that smoking is not permitted outdoors on the resort grounds.



I think you meant to say that they "must leave the building to SMOKE."  Was that a freidian slip.  Are you implying that they, the smoker, would be more productive if they worked while they smoked or that they take an aweful lot of breaks so as to be less productive?

In any event, I agree with you whole heartedly.


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## sfwilshire (Jan 19, 2007)

My husband is a smoker, but hasn't smoked inside (at home, in hotels, or in timeshares) since DD was born. She turns 21 in a couple of weeks.

Still .... I hope that he isn't going to be too annoyed by the smoking restrictions. When we stayed at the Marriott Custom House (no balconies) he became great friends with the valets from sitting in front of the building to smoke. Luckily it was nice weather.

Sheila


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## Joe L (Jan 19, 2007)

I recently stayed at a Marriott and was told that ALL Marriott properties are now non-smoking.  If you decide to smoke anyway, there is a $250.00 cleaning charge.  I smoke, but have always done it on the terrace of my resort.


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## somerville (Jan 19, 2007)

Jimbo said:


> I think you meant to say that they "must leave the building to SMOKE."  Was that a freidian slip.  Are you implying that they, the smoker, would be more productive if they worked while they smoked or that they take an aweful lot of breaks so as to be less productive?
> 
> In any event, I agree with you whole heartedly.



You are correct.  Although, I was not intending it to be a comment on work habits or productivity, just that during my working career, I have experienced changes in smoking policies where it was permitted anywhere in the building, to certain locations in the building, to now only outside the building.  One suburb in the DC area even wanted to prohibit smoking on public sidewalks.  I am not a smoker, but even I thought that was a little extreme.


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## littlestar (Jan 19, 2007)

somerville said:


> You are correct.  Although, I was not intending it to be a comment on work habits or productivity, just that during my working career, I have experienced changes in smoking policies where it was permitted anywhere in the building, to certain locations in the building, to now only outside the building.  One suburb in the DC area even wanted to prohibit smoking on public sidewalks.  I am not a smoker, but even I thought that was a little extreme.



I am not a smoker either, but I think some places are taking it too far. A person should be able to smoke on a sidewalk or on a balcony if they are out of the way of other people. I think the non smoking thing has been carried too far. 

I don't like having alcohol/drunks around me at ball games (I've had a few drunks spill stuff on me before). But I don't feel I have the right to set the rules for those people.

Last fall we buried one of my uncles who was hit by a drunk driver while he was mowing his grass in his front yard. My uncle lost his legs out of it and ultimately, his life from it. I wish they would take off the alcohol ads from TV like they did the smoking ads. They sure make it look attractive, but it hasn't been attractive/cool for our family.


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## Dave M (Jan 19, 2007)

Joe L said:


> I recently stayed at a Marriott and was told that ALL Marriott properties are now non-smoking.  If you decide to smoke anyway, there is a $250.00 cleaning charge.


Marriott has made all of its hotels - every Marriott brand - nonsmoking. However, MVCI isn't included and you won't see it listed in Marriott's various press releases on this issue.

Marriott doesn't control the smoking designations in its timeshares. The HOAs do. Thus, all Marriott could do is recommend to all of its timeshare resorts - which it has done - that they become nonsmoking. Where Marriott still controls the HOA because the resort is still in active sales, it was easy to make the change. A few others (such as Grand Ocean) had already committed to becoming nonsmoking before Marriott made the recommendation. 

One by one, most other Marriott timeshare resorts are announcing that they are joining the nonsmoking group.


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## ml855 (Jan 19, 2007)

I think this is great news that the Marriott timeshares are slowly going non-smoking.  I would also like to see no smoking on the balconies.  I really enjoy sitting on my balcony during the morning and evening hours.  It becomes very uncomfortable when a neighbor comes out to smoke and I have to smell his/her second hand smoke blowing my direction.  My enjoyment is over and I have to go indoors.  So I also vote for non-smoking on the balconies.


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## sage (Jan 19, 2007)

*Yahoo for Marriott!!!*

*I am sorry if I come over too strong on the anti-smoking front.
                                     BUT*
I totally agree with ml855 (previous post). We are all non-smokers and find it annoying when we want to sit on an outside balcony only to have someone else's smoke wafting our way.
I have an allergy to cigarette smoke. Only now are all the venues in my home state becoming non-smoking which make life a lot easier.
The problem with any place is, however, that even though they smoke outside, the smoke on the smokers clothes and hair permeates the couches they sit on & particularly the pillows they sleep on!
Many times when we travel I have to take my own pillow or go and buy a new one because the non-smoking rooms have pillows that stink of smoke.
This is REALLY inconvenient - especially if you are travelling overseas and going from place to place. Pillows are not always allowed in cabin baggage and do not always fit into suitcases.
For all those smokers out there - _*put it into perspective*_. If you have an allergy or medical condition that gets aggravated by something, wouldn't you like to go on holiday without worrying about getiing sick?
This is all that people who can't handle smoke (due to allergies, asthma or other afflictions) want - a pleasant holiday!


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## beanie (Jan 19, 2007)

lostinjapan14 said:


> For example, if they made all the rooms smoking after we thought non-smoking rooms would be available, wouldn't that be a bit shady?



or if they made the resorts alcohol free. I like littlestar have lost friends and family to drunk drivers but the alcohol industry must have a stronger lobby .it is the way we are subjected to it all the time from when we are kids . you see a family come out to the pool and daddy or mommy drinking because " we are on vacation " or whatever bs excuse they are using . so little jimmy or joannie grews up thinking the only way to have a good time at these resorts is with alcohol and they raise there kids the same way. I 'm not saying to ban alcohol because I am a live and let live person but the non smoking faction doesn't see it that way anymore .I had one guy from worldmark in las vegas tell me he could smell smoke from people balconies. this resort is right on las vegas blvd with hundreds of trucks going by a few feet away . I thought this was crazy but to each his own . oh and by the way I don't smoke anymore


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## gmarine (Jan 19, 2007)

There is a big difference between alcohol and cigarettes. Alcohol in moderation is healthy. Any amount of cigarettes are harmfull.

Alcohol in moderation harms nobody. Smoking harms everyone around.


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## beanie (Jan 20, 2007)

gmarine said:


> There is a big difference between alcohol and cigarettes. Alcohol in moderation is healthy. Any amount of cigarettes are harmfull.



 wow I guess that could be another way of looking at it .


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## jyork9 (Jan 20, 2007)

jyork9 said:


> I just want to know if anyone else is upset or concerned with the fact that without any notice to Owners (Like us) The Marriott Grande Vista changed to a total no smoking timeshare now. We bought with the expectations that we would always have smoking buildings available for our use. I tried to get a refund but good ole Marriott said tough s**T basically
> Any Thoughts??



I would not be as upset if Grand Vista allowed smoking on the decks, but now they will not allow that either. I can understand Marriott's' position on their hotel chains as everyone has a choice to stay or not stay at their property. It is different when you purchase the property and own the deed for several years and then the rules change


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## Dave M (Jan 20, 2007)

That's the nature of timeshares, condos, townhouses, and other planned-unit communities. There is a set of rules which the developer or HOA, depending on how mature the development is, can change from time to time. One should never buy into any such development (including timeshares) without reading the provisions that are spelled out in the legal documents (such as, for Marriott, the reservation, lock-off, check-in and other policies). Anything not detailed in those legal documents is fair game to be changed. 

Smoking rules fit into that "fair game" category. Other similar polices that could change include whether fees will be charged for activities, whether there will be a restaurant, whether small children will be banned from certain pools (that happened at Grande Ocean) and whether a pool will continue to be heated.


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## swainj (Jan 20, 2007)

*Thank you Marriott*

As a non-smoker and a relative of several people highly allergic to smoke, I am so happy that some MVC properties are going smoke free.


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## m61376 (Jan 20, 2007)

swainj said:


> As a non-smoker and a relative of several people highly allergic to smoke, I am so happy that some MVC properties are going smoke free.



Me too!!

And to add to the discussion about smoking on balconies- I am glad they are restricting that as well. I know some have posted that it doesn't disturb others, but the smoke really carries over onto neighboring balconies and for those sensitive to the odor it really is a problem.


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## Dean (Jan 20, 2007)

jyork9 said:


> I would not be as upset if Grand Vista allowed smoking on the decks, but now they will not allow that either. I can understand Marriott's' position on their hotel chains as everyone has a choice to stay or not stay at their property. It is different when you purchase the property and own the deed for several years and then the rules change


Given the climate in FL don't be surprised if they ban smoking on the property at some point.  Many businesses in FL have already done so.


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## rsackett (Jan 21, 2007)

I call Horizons in Orlando today and asked about their smoking policy.  Horizons is also 100% Non-Smoking.  For me it is a good thing.


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## sox21 (Jan 22, 2007)

*No Smoking...*

I applaud Marriott and any business that steers in this direction.  There is nothing worse than entering your room for vacation and it smells like an ashtray.  If a smoker checks into a non-smoking room what is the worst thing they deal with?   A room that smells clean?  A habit that effects others health needs to be controlled.


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## JimG (Jan 23, 2007)

I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.


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## ondeadlin (Jan 23, 2007)

JimG said:


> I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.



Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies. If you really believe you can organize folks against garlic and curry, give it a go and see if you can get it banned from the MVCI kitchens.


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## rsackett (Jan 23, 2007)

JimG said:


> I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.



I thought the most recent studies showed health benefits from garlic?  I think smoke is a different issue. 

But seriously; I do not remember a rental room ever having an overpowering smell of garlic or curry.  I can not say that about smoke.  Many people have allergies to smoke.  I have a dog who is part of the family, but I do understand that not all people would want to stay in a room that had a pet in it due to allergies, as well as the extra maintenance fees that would result.


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## JimG (Jan 25, 2007)

"Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies"

And here you have hit the nail on the head, what has happened to the OP is not democratic it is DICTATORSHIP!

The OP bought into the system believing that there were designated smoking / non-smoking appartments; the HOA have unilaterally and without recourse to the OWNERS changed the rules, which is going to significantly impact upon his vacation. (Especially the no smoking on the verranda bit, which is draconian)

Whether one's personal predjudices should be allowed to dictate to other people is a subject of debate. I made the (flippant) point about garlic & curry to illustrate how these things could develop, after all what's next ethniticity?

Whilst I know DaveM has his view, in my opinion if a dramatic change, (which I consider this to be), is implemented then MVCI have a duty to offer to buy back the week(s) as a minimum.

And as for the HOA being able to change rules ad hoc at their whim, can I ask, is it not the OWNERS that employ the HOA and not the other way round?


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## JMSH (Jan 25, 2007)

I would suggest that HOA's represent the owners of the complex and hence they make decesions in the best interest of the complex and not necessarily what is in the best interest or the personal interest of an individual. I would suggest again that personal agendas should be put aside when you are a member of a HOA and again make decesions in the overall best interest of the complex.


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## Stefa (Jan 25, 2007)

JimG said:


> Whether one's personal predjudices should be allowed to dictate to other people is a subject of debate. I made the (flippant) point about garlic & curry to illustrate how these things could develop, after all what's next ethniticity?



This isn't an issue of personal predjudice.  It's an issue of resorts not wanting to deal with the expense and/or inconvenience of allowing smoking.


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## ondeadlin (Jan 25, 2007)

JimG said:


> "Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies"
> 
> And here you have hit the nail on the head, what has happened to the OP is not democratic it is DICTATORSHIP!



No, Jim, the HOA is voted into position by the owners.

Their action reflects the will of the owners.

Your position is absolutely illogical. It would be like saying, "When I bought this timeshare, the fees were $600 annually and they should never change!"

The rules and fees are not set in stone when you purchase a timeshare (or a full-ownership condo, for that matter).

If you feel so strongly, try launching an effort to get elected to the board on a pro-smoking platform. Of course, you'd get laughed out of the building, but at least then you'd know for sure that this action wasn't that of a dictatorship, but one that reflected the desires of the overwhelming majority of your fellow owners.


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## beanie (Jan 25, 2007)

*I agree with jim*

put the smoking issue aside.  what if it was something else and it will be something else. why don't we vote on these issues ? I agree that smoking damages units and is in our best interest to not allow in the units. why I didn't smoke in my own house but I did smoke on my lanai . let my Hoa  at home here try to tell people they couldn't smoke on their own lanais , they would be laughed  out of the meetings. Lets see how many of you applauders there would be if they started outlawing other things such as the alcohol thing I brought up and the garlic - curry thing jim brought up. because there will be something else. no matter how much moderation you think you have .  I just think that the OP's point is valid even though dave explained that we are at marriotts mercy because of the papers we signed so they really have no recourse. I just can't wait to see what's next  because if you told me 20 yrs ago that smoking would not be allowed in as many places as it is I would of thought you nuts , not  that I disagree with most of it  but just can't wait to see what is next . I'm hoping nothing :ignore:


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## ondeadlin (Jan 25, 2007)

Homeowners associations have banned owners from smoking in their own homes (and, yes, balconies) - and had the ban upheld by a judge -- in Golden, Co.:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10336501/detail.html

And, again, it's the will of the other owners. If you don't like it, you have choices. You can organize a compeating slate of HOA candidates or you can sell your unit/condo. 

It wouldn't surprise me if smoking is banned in all public places within the next 10 years. It's just become absolutely socially unacceptable to the majority of American society. I realize it's a different story in Europe, etc., but that's a cultural difference and cultural differences will always exist.


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## Dave M (Jan 25, 2007)

beanie said:


> why don't we vote on these issues ?


We don't get to individually vote on these issues because the legal documents for each resort specify which issues must be voted on by the owners. Other issues (such as this one) not specified as belonging to the owners for a vote are decided upon by the HOA Board of Directors.

A good analogy is our system of government in the U.S. We elect people to represent us. Those representatives at the local, state and national level vote among themselves to enact laws (such as banning smoking in public places) that we don't individually get to vote on. If we don't like the laws or the way they are enforced, we can try to get others elected or run for office ourselves - the same as with a timeshare HOA.

And for Jim, my analogy applies to your post. When we don't get to vote on every governmental issue, that doesn't make our U.S. society a dictatorship. The same applies to timeshare ownership in a mature timeshare resort. We have a democracy in the timeshare and can vote to elect other directors to represent us. 

During the first few years, while the developer is selling timeshares, it is a dictatorship. The developer has total control to act within the limitations outlined in the resort's legal documents. Fortunately, we are all provided with a copy of those legal documents and have a chance to read them. We can decide not to purchase (or decide to cancel during the recision period) if we don't want to be subject to that temporary dictatorship. But if we buy, we are agreeing to be bound by those legal documents, which give the HOA (controlled by the developer in the early years) the right to change the rules. 

As is the case with this issue, the rules makers make a sincere effort to make appropriate rules, taking into account and balancing the relative cost or savings that the rule will have and the perceived preferences of the majority. No matter what the rule, not everyone will be happy with it.


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## JimG (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks beanie, at least there's one person who can see what I was driving at without being blinded by the smog  of the smoking issue.


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## rsackett (Jan 27, 2007)

I just recieved a letter from Manor Club stating that thae are 100% Non-Smoking.


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## captbob (Jan 27, 2007)

*Ocean Point Non Smoking*

Ocean Point just sent notice that it too will be non-smoking in all units and all balconies as on November 2007. There will be some areas outdoors set aside for smokers. The change now looks inevitable.


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## Dean (Jan 27, 2007)

Surfwatch did not go all NO initially.  They have smoking floors but put a note in the unit asking you to only smoke on the balcony.


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## fdfirm (May 3, 2007)

*Investigation*

[_ Message deleted. Advertising or otherwise soliciting business on these forums is not permitted._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## jimf41 (May 3, 2007)

I'm an owner at OP and unfortunately a smoker. There's been a lot of talk on the OP newsgroup about the new policy and tempers rise on both sides when the issue is discussed. Lets look at some basic facts. First most smokers are very inconsiderate of those who don't. We trash the entrances of most buildings with our discarded butts. We burn holes in anything you can burn holes in. We don't care how much the price is or how much municipalities gouge us with tobacco taxes we still buy them. If we're  sitting by the pool next to a family with three small kids downwind we'll just light up merrily instead of walking 10' to a spot where it wouldn't bother anyone. The  beach is our personal ashtray. Do you wonder why some folks are so vocal about your habit? My grandson Max is coming down here tomorrow and his kids fortunately will probably grow up in a United States where the purchase or possesion of tobacco products is illegal. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. 

All that said lets look at ther reality of a smoking ban. If you smoke in your room at an owner resort they've got you for a cleanup fee. But some folks seem to think this is a fine. It's not, only a municipality can fine you. That brings up an interesting question which the lawfirm that preceded my post is going to pursue. If you're on your balcony there is no clean up involved therefore no cleanup fee. What would the penalty be. Smoking in an outside location is permitted under Florida law so who is going to enforce it? I think OP went to far when they voted to ban smoking in outside locations including balconies. Time will tell and I'll be here next November when the rule goes into effect. I'm sure there will be fireworks on both sides. As for me I'm going to give quitting a go again this summer. Smoking is starting to ruin my reputation.


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## Dean (May 4, 2007)

jimf41 said:


> I'm an owner at OP and unfortunately a smoker. There's been a lot of talk on the OP newsgroup about the new policy and tempers rise on both sides when the issue is discussed. Lets look at some basic facts. First most smokers are very inconsiderate of those who don't. We trash the entrances of most buildings with our discarded butts. We burn holes in anything you can burn holes in. We don't care how much the price is or how much municipalities gouge us with tobacco taxes we still buy them. If we're  sitting by the pool next to a family with three small kids downwind we'll just light up merrily instead of walking 10' to a spot where it wouldn't bother anyone. The  beach is our personal ashtray. Do you wonder why some folks are so vocal about your habit? My grandson Max is coming down here tomorrow and his kids fortunately will probably grow up in a United States where the purchase or possesion of tobacco products is illegal. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> All that said lets look at ther reality of a smoking ban. If you smoke in your room at an owner resort they've got you for a cleanup fee. But some folks seem to think this is a fine. It's not, only a municipality can fine you. That brings up an interesting question which the lawfirm that preceded my post is going to pursue. If you're on your balcony there is no clean up involved therefore no cleanup fee. What would the penalty be. Smoking in an outside location is permitted under Florida law so who is going to enforce it? I think OP went to far when they voted to ban smoking in outside locations including balconies. Time will tell and I'll be here next November when the rule goes into effect. I'm sure there will be fireworks on both sides. As for me I'm going to give quitting a go again this summer. Smoking is starting to ruin my reputation.


I would agree with much of your post.  Actually I think many smokers are considerate but like anything else the bad apples spoil it for everyone.  I would disagree with the idea that only a government entity can fine you.  Any group you belong to can fine you if they want.  You then decide whether to pay.  Their only wheapon is to ban you from the group or to with hold any benefits they hold such as money for sports athlete's.  With timeshares you would then lose use of your timeshare options and by default, exchange company.  I would also disagree with the idea that you can legally smoke anywhere outside in FL.  Some timeshares that ban smoking do so on the balcony also, Disney just announced this ban that oly permits smoking in designated areas.  Many businesses in FL have also banned smoking on their premises, sometimes providing designated smoking areas, many times not.  Some are not hiring smokers going forward.


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## PerryM (May 4, 2007)

*We need "Lawyer Seeking Work - Free" posts*

[_Quoted text deleted. See explanation below._ DM]

A shameless attempt at trolling for business.  This is a plug for more litigation which we all know we, the owners, will be paying for and the lawyers make out like bandits.

But heck, I saw where a judge filed a $65 M lawsuit against a dry cleaner who had misplaced his pants - they fould them 2 days later.  The entire 18th century US legal system needs a visit from the roto-rooter man.


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## Scott_Ru (May 4, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, when did this "total" ban at Grande Vista take effect?  I was just there for a month, ending in March.  And at that time there were still buildings available for smokers.

(But I'll always choose a non-smoking bldg. if it's offered! ... On the other hand, my two sons smoke and it would be hard for them.  A thorny issue.)


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## Rhody51 (May 4, 2007)

*Smoking*

Being an owner at Grande Vista, my husband is a smoker, when we bought
it was allowed. He smokes on the balcony only, I feel that should still be
an option. We would not have purchased this property if it was non smoking only. Changing the rules after the sale to me is unfair, I will be voiceing my
concerns, I will not be buying another Marriott timeshare for this reason.


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## pharmgirl (May 4, 2007)

we also feel totally ripped off, bought a KoOlina Oean view just half a year befor they cahnged to non smoking.
this is NOT like a hotel where you can just go to another, we now own a large cost unit that my hubby says he no longer wants to go to

Called them up, wrote a letter and no real help - offered us a use of a free cabana for the week - what a joke.  
But it really is not a joke they really should have told us this was coming and we would have made a different decision


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## Beverley (May 5, 2007)

I am a non smoker.  That being said, I get concerned about how far we take "prohibition" in this country.  Outside balconies should be allowed for people to smoke IMHO, even if the people next door (this could be me as well) can smell it. 

Inside the units no ... the costs of cleaning and replacing soft goods earlier affects our mantenence fees and I do not feel non smokers should pay for smoker's habits.

Beverley


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## Rhody51 (May 5, 2007)

*smoking*

Maybe all the smokers who own units should band together to allow
smoking on the balconies, so we can at least enjoy the TS we bought. If
anyone knows an email address we could send to please post it. Next
rule might be we all will have to be in the building by a certain time, lights
out and to bed!


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## m61376 (May 5, 2007)

Beverley said:


> I am a non smoker.  That being said, I get concerned about how far we take "prohibition" in this country.  Outside balconies should be allowed for people to smoke IMHO, even if the people next door (this could be me as well) can smell it.
> 
> Inside the units no ... the costs of cleaning and replacing soft goods earlier affects our mantenence fees and I do not feel non smokers should pay for smoker's habits.
> 
> Beverley


Having taken umbrage at a recent change in the palapa policy at the Surf Club I can understand your annoyance with a change in the rules after the fact. However, being a non-smoker and, more importantly, married to someone very allergic to cigarette smoke and having daughters with similar allergies, I can appreciate that having an asthma attack triggerred by someone else smoking certainly impinges on a vacation.

The problem with balcony smoking is not only the smoke wafting to someone else's balcony and making it difficult for them to use it, but also that many people leave the doors open when on the balcony so that the smoke also gets into the room.

While an ardent anti-smoker, I can understand that smokers need an area to smoke and, that from their perspective, they have rights too. For the reasons already mentioned (costs of cleaning and damage and health issues to others) I think banning smoking inside rooms is a great idea. While I don't like smoking being allowed on balconies, since it not only impinges on others' enjoyment of their balconies but also affects adjacent units, at least to a certain degree dependent on the consideration of smokers (whether they close the balcony door and whether they never run inside for a minute holding thier cigarette), I do think having some adjacent rooms set aside where balcony smoking is allowed would be a fair compromise. 

I am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned as an option, at least not that I am aware of.


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## Dean (May 5, 2007)

m61376 said:


> Having taken umbrage at a recent change in the palapa policy at the Surf Club I can understand your annoyance with a change in the rules after the fact. However, being a non-smoker and, more importantly, married to someone very allergic to cigarette smoke and having daughters with similar allergies, I can appreciate that having an asthma attack triggerred by someone else smoking certainly impinges on a vacation.
> 
> The problem with balcony smoking is not only the smoke wafting to someone else's balcony and making it difficult for them to use it, but also that many people leave the doors open when on the balcony so that the smoke also gets into the room.
> 
> ...


There are several reasons to have NS from a resort standpoint.  These include lower maint fees and to avoid the complaints from the majority of owners who are NS.  The other reason is ease of unit assignment which translates to lower personel costs from not having to deal with the time to worry about which unit someone gets.  Disney just announced all NS and on balconies for all hotel and Timeshare resorts, actually everywhere not designated smoking area if I understand the info correctly.  They stated that less than 3% (or was it less than 3.5%) of guests requested smoking.


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## littlestar (May 5, 2007)

I, too, am a nonsmoker, but I feel the smoking "witch hunt" is ridiculous. It's been taken too far. They should at least have a building or section of units that would allow smoking on a balcony. That would be a fair compromise.


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## PerryM (May 5, 2007)

*Of course we are going to take your cigarettes away...*

I just read an article that claimed that right after WW II 50% of adults in the US smoked – this was partly due to the free or cut rate cigarettes supplied to the troops. *1 out of 2 adults smoked!*  Back then it wasn't "hip" for ladies to smoke so the percentage of adult men that smoked must have been around 2/3's.

Nicotine, I believe, is THE most addictive substance man has ever come across – forget crack cocaine, that cigarette or cigar dispenses THE most addictive narcotic that exists.  (I doubt nicotine has the classification of narcotic - the government would be shooting itself in the foot if it did - it needs every penny of those taxes and then some)  It too is an addict.

Of course we are going to deprive you of nicotine – those of you who smoke are addicted to this narcotic and we, as a society, will eventually outlaw smoking.  The ONLY reason its still around is because the US and State governments make so much money off of your addition.  Oh, let's not forget the lawyers too.

Someone name ONE, just ONE, reason to allow fellow citizens who are addicted to nicotine to continue your every other hour “shoot up” of nicotine.  And don’t give me the “It’s my right” argument – its not.  The grownups in this country have spoken and we will eventually remove nicotine from the supermarket shelves.

Ok, there is ONE legitimate reason for nicotine – it is the tobacco plant's natural defense against bugs – it's an insecticide, it can be sprinkled on plants to kill any known bug in existence – it’s that toxic.  Beyond that I know of no reason to have nicotine in the house.  Nicotine is a chemical weapon and you want this in your house with the kids?  The same stuff you inhale in your lungs is designed to kill; that's its purpose in nature)


If you can find a cigarette that is narcotic free – then I have no problem with someone smoking it.  Hopefully it will have a much better smell than the tobacco plant.  Heck, roll up a dryer softener sheet, like Bounce, and smoke that - it would do wonders for the stale air and probably better for your lungs.


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## m61376 (May 5, 2007)

Dean said:


> There are several reasons to have NS from a resort standpoint.  These include lower maint fees and to avoid the complaints from the majority of owners who are NS.  The other reason is ease of unit assignment which translates to lower personel costs from not having to deal with the time to worry about which unit someone gets.  Disney just announced all NS and on balconies for all hotel and Timeshare resorts, actually everywhere not designated smoking area if I understand the info correctly.  They stated that less than 3% (or was it less than 3.5%) of guests requested smoking.



Don't get me wrong- I happen to prefer no-smoking across the board. I can understand why, though, some resorts are allowing it on balconies. I do feel that if they are making that decision to accomodate their owners that do smoke, they should designate units that have smoking balconies, so that non-smokers who are really affected by the smoke on adjacent balconies can request units away from the designated units and since smoke does filter into rooms even when smoking is only allowed on balconies through open doorways.


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## Dean (May 5, 2007)

m61376 said:


> Don't get me wrong- I happen to prefer no-smoking across the board. I can understand why, though, some resorts are allowing it on balconies. I do feel that if they are making that decision to accomodate their owners that do smoke, they should designate units that have smoking balconies, so that non-smokers who are really affected by the smoke on adjacent balconies can request units away from the designated units and since smoke does filter into rooms even when smoking is only allowed on balconies through open doorways.


I hear what you're saying.  My point was that doing what you suggests takes away the logistical advantage of having all NS rooms.


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## Transit (May 5, 2007)

Smoking is just one issue. There are other issues that may be changed by resorts or timeshares. HOAs can vote to ban SUVs they take up too much space or what about children if many of the owners would be more comfortable without them then just vote them out. Maybe lots of owners at a resort would prefer to bring pets lets say they change the rules and allow dogs and cats. How about alcohol free,nude pools or senior citizens only. I'm not saying I'm for or against any of this, my point is  that with resorts the management can change the rules to whatever benefits their customers but Timeshares are deeded properties and the rules should be spelled out in your contract/deed and shouldn't be changed so easily.


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## KathyPet (May 6, 2007)

We own three weeks, one at Manor Club purchased in 1994, and Barony and Grand Ocean purchased in 2002.  I am a smoker and I will be contacting the firm of Atty's listed in a prior post.  Due to Manor Club's recent change to non smoking I now have a large investment that I cannot now use.  I receive the list of individuals running for the Board at each property that I have.  I have never seen anyone of these individuals post any type of a "platform" that they are running on.  Never has anyone stated that if elected they would ban smoking.  It's sort of like one of the Presidential candidates being unwilling to state their position on abortion or the war or raising taxes.  We are asked to vote for these people based on their profiles rather than what actions they are intending to take.  This is a joke and unfair to the owners at that resort.  At least if they were honest and upfront owners could decide to elect them or not.    Also, I have never seen any sort of a survey about what the owners want to do about smoking.  Instead these people get elected and then pass these bans without even notifying the owners of their intentions.  
As far as Dave's comments that the rules can be changed at any time and using the banning of children from one of the pools at GO as a example I guess that if the smoking ban is enforced as well as that rule is enforced then I really don't have anything to worry about since what the rule says and what actually occurs are two entirely different things.

I am willing to be reasonable here.  I will confine my smoking to the balconies if required to do so.  I am even willing to accept that smoking may only occur on balconies in certain buildings but to totally ban smoking is totally unfair to owners who have owned for years and years and now can no longer enjoy what they paid for.

I am going to attempt to sell all of my units.


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## cindi (May 6, 2007)

Beverley said:


> I am a non smoker.  That being said, I get concerned about how far we take "prohibition" in this country.  Outside balconies should be allowed for people to smoke IMHO, even if the people next door (this could be me as well) can smell it.
> 
> Inside the units no ... the costs of cleaning and replacing soft goods earlier affects our mantenence fees and I do not feel non smokers should pay for smoker's habits.
> 
> Beverley



I have to respectfully disagree. 

I have had one of my solo vacactions severely impacted on a trip to Orlando. I had plans to do nothing but veg out on the balcony and read. BTW, I have no problems with keeping smoking buildings, but I had specifically requested a NON smoking building. I have hyper sensitivity to smoke. It causes chest pain and is very unpleasant. 

And despite the fact it was a non smoking building, there were TWO units who persisted in smoking outside on the balcony. Often cigars, which are very strong. It made it impossible for me to sit outside, which was the main point of my trip. 

Keep a non smoking building or two for those who chose to smoke, (and believe me, I am struggling to not getting on my soapbox as a health care provider)  but please do not disrespect the people who chose not to smoke.


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## m61376 (May 6, 2007)

Dean said:


> I hear what you're saying.  My point was that doing what you suggests takes away the logistical advantage of having all NS rooms.



Dean- as an ardent non-smoker, a person who has seen the first harnd consequences of smoking on a professional level (having a degree in Cardiopulmonary Physical Therapy) and having family that are asthmatic and hence very sensitive to cigarette smoke, I agree wholeheartedly with you. My point is that many of the resorts are opting for NS in room but smoking on the balconies and, regretfully but admittedly, I can understand the reasoning behind it. Just as smoking next door or above, etc., would ruin my enjoyment of the balconey, smokers feel they have a right to enjoy their purchase. My point is IF the HOA's decide to allow smoking on the balconies they should reserve sections where that is allowed, so as to be fair to the smokers and non-smokers allowed.

While impeding the logistical advantage of having all NS rooms, it allows for smokers to enjoy smoking in some areas with minimal impact on the interior sections and with a lower impact on non-smokers. Personally, I think that would be a fairer compromise to all, and something I could live with.


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## Rhody51 (May 8, 2007)

Not to add fuel to the fire on this issue. After talking with other owners
who are smokers, their answer was by banning smoking on the balconies
more people are likely to have a smoke in the bathroom, versus running
outside to an smoking area. Which is true, how many people are going
to go out side to smoke late at night or in bad weather. At least smoking
on the balcony kepted the inside smoke free. I would like to see how this
rule will be inforced. We are seriously thinking of selling our unit, not worth
the stress to my husband, which makes me sad since I love Grande Vista.


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## pharmgirl (May 9, 2007)

Rhody51 said:


> Not to add fuel to the fire on this issue. After talking with other owners
> who are smokers, their answer was by banning smoking on the balconies
> more people are likely to have a smoke in the bathroom, versus running
> outside to an smoking area. Which is true, how many people are going
> ...



My husband also refuses to go back to KoOlina because of 2 reasons 1, way he was treated, told we were in smoking units then he was told no smoking even on balconies (he ONLY smokes on balcony) 2. we bought 2nd week there only 6 months prior now he can't use as he planned

We are seriously thinking of selling but will have a significant loss and
we WERE thinking of buyng 2 more marriott weeks - not now


Don't know how the japanese market is buying with these new rules
There should be some middle ground - allow balcony smoking in certain adjacent units


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## Bucky (May 11, 2007)

All of these post really mean nothing if nobody enforces the no-smoking rule.  We've been at MAO for a week and people still sit around the pool smoking.  The employees just turn their backs and go on about their business.  I almost said something today but as my wife reminded me, we are going home tomorrow.  Good riddance.


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