# Information received first hand from Marriott Reps. either in person or by telephone



## kedler (Jun 21, 2010)

In the interest of trying to help people find the information (v. interpretation of information) that we are receiving either via telephone or on site presentations I started a new thread. I spent over an hour on the phone asking questions first of my regular advisor who knew precious little and then of a "Points Advisor" who seemed fairly knowledgeable, admitted when he didn't know and asked his supervisor, and did not try to "sell" me but only provided verbal information in a lengthy telephone conversation this morning which I complied below:

1.	You are enrolling in Marriott’s Exchange Company instead of enrolling in II as in the past.

2.	Nothing we are used to changes if we are using our weeks – flexchange still exists and you can uptrade during flexchange as you have done in the past based on inventory.

3.	All excess Marriott inventory is going into the Land Trust and the Marriott inventory in II is going to be from week owners depositing their weeks.

4.	As far as reservations are concerned there are 2 pools of weeks (he said this fact is in the documents but did not know where) – one for “weeks” and the other for “points”. Example if a resort has a total of 100 weeks and 50 elect to use their weeks as the always have and 50 others elect to use points you are completing against 50 people for the week you want NOT 100.

5.	As far as exchanging he says that if you join Marriott’s Exchange Company you have the two options to exchange all for $165 per year for one week or $199 per year for multiple weeks (less than the current “nickel and dime” (to quote the rep) fees we now pay:

a.	Reserve your week and Marriott deposits it and tries to get the exchange you requested. I’m told we don’t need to talk to II anymore Marriott will handle everything for us under the new II number that we will be assigned. You can trade one week the “old way” and elect to convert another to points obtain extra nights at the same resort; 
OR
b.	Elect to convert one or more weeks (you can make different elections with different weeks in the same year) and use them to directly reserve the resort you want to travel to when you want to travel (based again on availability). This method could result in an instant reservation and should be “faster” than the old exchange route.  It was suggested to me that the only reason to use this method with a 7 night stay was if the place and week you were trading into cost the same or less points which might even allow you to reserve more nights if you wanted.

6.	As for your existing  II membership, which in my case goes through 2013 I will get 2 Bonus weeks (I’ve already made a trade for a 2011 week or I would have received 3) to compensate me for the prepaid II fees which are now covered under the annual fee for Marriott’s Exchange Company.

7.	As far as your EOY week is concerned for determining Premier Status he told me that they split it in half for purposes of determining status but I can only use the points during my odd use year. He didn’t like this answer, which he got from his supervisor, any more than I did but the explanation is that we have the right to bank and borrow so technically there is a right to use them each year.

8.	If you have an existing MVC reservation and you want to enroll and cancel it to use the points there is no $29 cancellation fee because its in the annual fee.

9.	If you have deposited the week in II you cannot get it back and neither than Marriott though he did say that Marriott can pull back weeks it owns and deposits in II.

10.	If you add points the enrollment fee is waived and your Plus points are doubled. I was told the lowest number of points available for purchase is 1000 and that it is 9.20 per point or $9,200. He said to me that he didn’t see that I needed to buy more based on how I use my weeks.

11.	You can trade resale weeks for MR points on an annual basis with enrollment IF your resale week originally was granted the right to exchange for points.  In my case I can now trade my bronze Barony Beach week for 50,000 MR points, but not my Harbour Point week #5 which never had that right.

12.	To make hotel reservations (Marriott Collection I believe it is called) you will transfer your vacation points to MR points to make the reservation at a rate of 33:1 or approx. 303 points per 10,000 MR points. Additionally you can exchange one or more eligible weeks for MR points.

13.	 The way to maximize your use of points in the MVC properties is through the use of Sun-Thurs. 

14.	The Bonus “Plus Points” are only good for one year.

15.	If you elect to use your week as a week you can still lock-off as we do now. If you are converting to points you are just using your points to maximize the number of nights you get out of the points. 

So far there are more pluses than minuses for the way we use our weeks PROVIDED I can get #2-6 in writing in some form. 

I’m going to call him back later today. He gave me his direct line so if anyone has any questions that I forgot to ask let me know and I’ll ask them.


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## pfrank4127 (Jun 21, 2010)

kedler said:


> In the interest of trying to help people find the information (v. interpretation of information) that we are receiving either via telephone or on site presentations I started a new thread. I spent over an hour on the phone asking questions first of my regular advisor who knew precious little and then of a "Points Advisor" who seemed fairly knowledgeable, admitted when he didn't know and asked his supervisor, and did not try to "sell" me but only provided verbal information in a lengthy telephone conversation this morning which I complied below:
> 
> 1.	You are enrolling in Marriott’s Exchange Company instead of enrolling in II as in the past.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the summary; it was very informative.


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## tombo (Jun 21, 2010)

Ask him how many points you get when you deposit your week(s), then go to the chart and see how many points are required to reserve your week. Most here (including some with fixed weeks) are not allocated enough points to trade into their own unit the following year if they deposit the week for points in order to book 2 weeks together at the home resort for family and friends. 

Sure you can book at your home resort each year using home resort priority, but if Marriott says your week costs 5000 points for someone to reserve, and yet they only give you 4500 points when you deposit it, you can't afford to stay at your own home resort using points and you sure can't stay at any other resort which is rated equally with regards to the amount of points needed to reserve. If you own a 5000 point week and you only get 4500 points for deposit, you can never afford to exchange for an equal resort which has a cost of 5000 points without borrowing from future points. That is a ripoff. 

If you convert to points and need to sell, the buyer will owe Marriott at least $2000 to keep the week you are selling them in points killing your resale. At ANY time in the future and for ANY reason Marriott can change point values. You have enough points now to book a week you like each year and you join. next year Marriott devalues your resort or raise the points required at the one you like to exchange for and you no longer have access to it. Marriott builds new resorts and charges 7000 points to stay there in shoulder seasons, gives those owners 7000 points for buying direct where sales were slow and suddenly every one of the new points members can afford to reserve your home 5000 point week with points left over while you can't afford to bank your week and use the points Marriott allocates you to reserve your own home week.


Lots of bad, little actual good. Read a lot of posts and for goodness sake don't trust anything the salesman tells you unless it is in writing, and even the stuff in writing is subject to change at marriott's choosing because the writing spells it out that they can change the program whenever they want.


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## pefs65 (Jun 21, 2010)

This is all so very helpful and thank you.

As a resale eoy owner also you answered my question about the ability to convert my week to MR points.
Since I never had that right to begin with I wont have it now.

Also are you saying that as EOY I have to use my points and vacation only during my odd yr use yr or that I could still bank and borrow for what up to 2 yrs and still potentially vacation during an even yr?

Thanks again


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## PaulN (Jun 21, 2010)

Either I misunderstood, or the rep didn't know the answer correctly, but I was told I would have to make my "home resort" reservation through points program.  Currently, one of our weeks is a Platinum Plus week which guarantees us school vacation week.  If we signed up, she said that wouldn't be guaranteed any longer, "but it would be more flexible"??

Additionally she said, if/when we went to sell our week(s) we would be selling the points, not the unit at a site.  I didn't like that either.


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## kedler (Jun 21, 2010)

*EOY and MR*

i must have forgotten that part he told me that I could exchange my Aruba Surf Club for points in my use year which I haven't been able to do before but he said that I would now have that option.

You can use all of your points or use your week as usual in your use year; however, if you can borrow or bank from your EOY points so effectively you can use 1/2 the points in each year. In my case I'll only use all of the points to go someplace where my allotted 3075 points gets me into a trade I want - hopefully with a few points left over.

I'm an attorney so I need to see things in writing before signing on the dotted line. 

The one thing that is clear is that Marriott (and II for that matter) have the right to change the rules of the game at all times and I would expect to see the points for usage change in the future but I'll address that question in my next call. If they change the points system to the point where I don't want to use it I will have the deeded option of exchanging as has been done to date. 

Frankly I feel its all a game, which is why many Tuggers like it. After awhile we'll find the ways to work the system to our advantage.

I'm leaning towards converting but still need lots more information and to see the documentation that they will want us to sign to join this new Exchange Company.


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## LAX Mom (Jun 21, 2010)

> 12. To make hotel reservations (Marriott Collection I believe it is called) you will transfer your vacation points to MR points to make the reservation at a rate of 33:1 or approx. 303 points per 10,000 MR points. Additionally you can exchange one or more eligible weeks for MR points.



Why would anyone convert Marriott timeshare (destination) points to Marriott reward points? 5 nights in a category 8 hotel will cost you 160,000. If you divide 160,000 by 33, you'll need 4,848.48 destination points. At $9.2 per point it would cost $44,606.06 to buy those points and you would pay almost $2000 per year in MF. 

I don't think it makes sense to exchange your timeshare into destination points thinking you'll be able to use them for a stay in Marriott hotels. You're better off paying for MR points (50,000 per individual per year) or using cash for hotel stays.


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## smokies (Jun 21, 2010)

tombo said:


> Ask him how many points you get when you deposit your week(s), then go to the chart and see how many points are required to reserve your week. Most here (including some with fixed weeks) are not allocated enough points to trade into their own unit the following year if they deposit the week for points in order to book 2 weeks together at the home resort for family and friends.
> 
> Sure you can book at your home resort each year using home resort priority, but if Marriott says your week costs 5000 points for someone to reserve, and yet they only give you 4500 points when you deposit it, you can't afford to stay at your own home resort using points and you sure can't stay at any other resort which is rated equally with regards to the amount of points needed to reserve. If you own a 5000 point week and you only get 4500 points for deposit, you can never afford to exchange for an equal resort which has a cost of 5000 points without borrowing from future points. That is a ripoff.
> 
> ...



It is interesting you are telling a lawyer what to look for. I'm sure he is very familiar with the hundreds of posts pointing out caveats. . I find it useful when someone starts a thread like this that includes some new things.


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## m61376 (Jun 21, 2010)

A few additions from my call:
-inventory will be separate between non-converting week owners/converting owners using their owned week and people using points. People reserving their weeks will be competing with each other under the old reservation rules.
-Premiere owners using their week to reserve their owned week cannot book a single week at 13 months, as can point users
-deposits to II will be the same as now- owner chooses week to deposit BUT Marriott can choose to fulfill a reservation request (whether a week's owner request or a points request) with any week deposited. So- basically Marriott can raid the II deposit pool at whim- of course couched in the "for the benefit of its owners."
-Rep. could not answer how an OV and OS week can be assigned the same value, even though there is a several thousand dollar cost value. Insisted that this was not the case (I know at the Surf Club this is, in fact, the case). 
-Acknowledged that Marriott can change point values at any time, at their discretion. 
-No current point Flexchange option, although they may add that. Will need to use week deposits for Flexchange type trades (no fewer points option to reserve closer in).
-weeks must be used either as a week or as points; you can lock-off, but cannot trade part of a week as points and use part in your home resort or to trade via II.


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## DeniseM (Jun 21, 2010)

Just a thought - I would not bet the farm based on what a Rep. tells you verbally.  When Starwood went through this 10 mos. ago, we got all kinds of incorrect verbal info. from Reps.  It will take the Reps. awhile to get up to speed.


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## californiagirl (Jun 21, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> It will take the Reps. awhile to get up to speed.



So true Denise!  I just got off a call with a Marriott rep who had to put me on hold everytime I asked a question.  Finally I ended the call.  I have an appt. at 2:30 with a sales rep at Canyon Villas who I hope can answer the questions and show me in the contract where their answer is validated.  I don't trust it until I see the black and white.  (And yes I know they reserve the right to change the rules.)


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## IngridN (Jun 21, 2010)

Couple of questions next time someone talks to Marriott:

1.  If I join points but continue to use as is, which is what I will do, will I have online access to II or must I go through Marriott. During my call, first I was told I must go through Marriott if using the weeks option in the points program. When I told her that was a dealbreaker she checked and told me I would continue to have the same online access to II as now?  

2.  Can multi-week owners continue with the 13 month reservation option reserving concurrent or consecutive weeks?

3.  I assume premier points member get the 13 month advantage without the current restrictions? Will I get that advantage using the weeks program to reserve?

Thanks.

Ingrid


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## KauaiMark (Jun 21, 2010)

*Back-out option?..*



kedler said:


> In the interest of trying to help people find the information



If I sign up, and after using it for a couple years later I decide it isn't working out for me, can discontinue my "club membership" and go back to what I originally bought.

Sort of a an opt-out after the "test drive".


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## Dave M (Jun 21, 2010)

IngridN said:


> 2.  Can multi-week owners continue with the 13 month reservation option reserving concurrent or consecutive weeks?


If you stay as a weeks owner, there is no change to your procedures. You can still book concurrent or consecutive weeks at 13 months. 





> 3.  I assume premier points member get the 13 month advantage without the current restrictions? Will I get that advantage using the weeks program to reserve?


If you remain as a weeks owner, you apparently would not be able to book a single week at 13 months. That's consistent with the no-change to your procedures. (Also see the second bullet in m61376's post above.


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## wsrobinson (Jun 21, 2010)

*New info?*

I just got off the phone with a VOA and was told a few things among the most important...

1) You cannot exchange external weeks for MRP.  You can exchange external weeks for the new vacation points and trade a varying percentage for MRP.

2) If you recently bought developer but haven't closed they are working on including you in the program

3) If you bought a week externally, you will have to sell your week externally (if you join the program or not).  Marriott will not do that.

4) I was told the 800 point extra was only good thru the end of next week (but I don't believe this).

5) If you recently bought externally but didn't close before 6-20-10, you are SOL.

6) Additional points will only be sold in an initial increment of 1000 (at $9.20/pt) going up in increments of 250.

This is all I discovered.


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## NJMOM2 (Jun 21, 2010)

I was told the additional points start at 1000 then you can increase at increments of 250.  If you buy the 1000 points you do not have to pay the fee to join the program.

My OceanWatch that I bought resale is will be able to exchange for 100,000 Marriott Rewards Points every other year if I convert.

I will receive 2 bonus weeks since my interval membership is paid up until 2014.

I forgot to ask - I have a pending request in II for next summer.  I already paid the $109 exchange fee.  If I cancel my request - I will get a $109 credit back.  Then if I join the program and make another request for next summer will I have to pay the $109 again?   If I am right it's a savings of $109.

Does anyone have the answer?

PS. I also read in te FAQ or somewhere on the owner's web site that you can reserve with less than 6500 club points at 13 months mark if you use 20% more points.

https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/OwnerRecognitionChart.pdf


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## wsrobinson (Jun 21, 2010)

NJMOM2 said:


> I was told the additional points start at 1000 then you can increase at increments of 250.  If you buy the 1000 points you do not have to pay the fee to join the program.
> 
> *My OceanWatch that I bought resale is will be able to exchange for 100,000 Marriott Rewards Points every other year if I convert.*
> I will receive 2 bonus weeks since my interval membership is paid up until 2014.
> ...



The VOA was adamant that external weeks would NOT be eligible for MRP.  I'm not sure who has the correct info but she was firm and confident this was not a perk.


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## californiagirl (Jun 21, 2010)

Okay, I'm back from meeting with a sales rep at Canyon Villas.  Some of the info will confirm and some will conflict what has been posted before.  I suspect part of this is that the Marriott employees are so new to this they are still learning as well.  Here are the answers to my questions:

•	Regardless of enrolling or not in the points program all weeks do not lose any benefit we have had such as the following

    1.	Reserve our week and use it.
    2.	Trade for Marriott Reward points (if that was an option attached to our week.)  We trade the exact same way we always have.  No need to convert to points first.
    3.	Trade through Interval by reserving our week and depositing into the general pool.
    4.	Renting or giving our week to someone else to use.

•	The points program offers an additional option of trading our weeks for MVC Destinations points and using them as we see fit.

•	He did not know why Marriott made the decision to give owners less points than what are needed to book back into their resort on points.  I definitely got the feeling they wished this was not the case.  (This is not always the case, I net more points with my MOC week.)

•	We can rent/give the points to someone else and make the reservation in their name without an extra fee.

•	We can transfer points to another MVCD member acct. without an extra fee.  I specifically asked if we can charge for the points and he said absolutely.  Very similar to DVC except there is no limitation on number of times we can do this transfer.  I suspect this may change if the number of transactions is very large.

•	There are a finite number of points in the MVCD “trust”. All the Marriott Vacation Club properties that Marriott owns are in this trust.  When someone buys an interest in the trust they are buying a deeded interest not a “Right to Use”.  They have the right to reallocate the points as they see fit.  If they build another MVC property, then those points would be included and the number in the trust would go up.  I asked specifically about reallocation.  He confirmed that if the points for a day/week in one property went up, then the points at another property would have to go down.  The problem I see with having all the properties in the trust and not selling by individual properties is that if point cost for one old, poor performing property keeps going down, then that gives Marriott the opportunity to raise the point cost at a more popular destination…like Maui.  He confirmed that this could happen.

•	There is no “home resort” advantage.  (In DVC I can book my vacation at the 11 month mark at my home resort or 7 months if I own somewhere else.)  All Destination point owners can compete for the same property.  The only priority is the premier and premier plus status that has been discussed on the boards.

•	I asked if as a premier owner I could book 7 days at the 13 month window and then call back and cancel 1-6 of those days.  He took that question to his manager and the answer is that the reservation is cancelled if any changes in days are made.  But as I have thought about it, I could then cancel at the 12 month point and immediately rebook the exact number of days I wanted.  Thereby having priority for less than 7 days at 13 months without being a premier plus member.  The only caveat being that I would need the number of points in my account to book the initial 7 days.

•	He confirmed with his supervisor that we will be able to reserve our days online without being required to call Marriott.  I will believe this when I see it!  This is a sore spot for me with Disney.  To make a reservation with DVC, you must call during their hours of operation.  For west coasters that means before 2:00 in the afternoon.  Very frustrating!!  The first date to begin reserving using points is July 25 or 26th.  (I can’t remember which day and I did not write it down.)

•	Initial buy-in for a current Marriott owner is 1000 points, after that points can be purchased in 250 point increments.

•	Initial buy-in for new owners is I believe 1500 points.  (I forgot to write that down as it did not pertain to me.  It could have been 1300 or 1400.) 

•	“Use year”.  All “Legacy” (his term) owners, meaning those of us who already own Marriott weeks, who enroll in the points system will have a use year of January 1st.  New owners will have a use year of the month when they joined.  This is important because it applies to when points are entered into the account and when the deadline for banking is made.

•	Banking and borrowing.  This is exactly like Disney.  You can bank for one year, those points must be used by the end of the next use year.  (Example: bank my 2010 points into 2011.  I can use those points from 1/1/11 until 12/31/11.)  I can borrow from the following year into this year.  (Example: borrow 2011 points into 2010.  I have until 12/31/10 to use those points.)  This can be very beneficial as I could have 3 years worth of point to use in a given year.  (Example: bank 2010 points, borrow 2012 points and use 2011 points from 1/1/11 to 12/31/11.  I have 3 years worth of points for a super vacation!)  Points can not be rolled over and over from year to year.  Once they are banked into the next year, they must be used within that year.

•	I must trade my entire unit for points.  I can not lock-off and use one side and trade one side for points.

•	Interval deposits remain separate from points deposits.  He said that Marriott can not go in and “raid” a prime week to fulfill a point request.  His supervisor confirmed this.  If I reserve July 4th week at MOC and deposit that week into Interval, then that is the week some other Interval member will get in exchange. 

•	As a points member if I want to traditionally deposit my week into Interval and request a non-Marriott week, I would pay the fee to trade just as I have always done.  I do not need to purchase another membership in Interval. 

•	I can still sell my deeded weeks as deeded weeks and they have the ability to trade in the traditional Interval program.

After considering everything, I think we will drink the kool-aid and join the points program.     The gravy train we all knew and loved has jumped the tracks…the exchange program as we knew it is gone whether or not we like it.  I am actually pleased with the opportunities to trade for other types of vacations.  I have played around on the website with trading points for cruises and package vacations and I like what I see.  The point requirements are not out of line in my opinion.  If the points don’t work out for us and the worst thing that happens to us is that we end up using our weeks at our home resorts, that is not so bad.  We followed the advice on the boards and bought where we want to vacation.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 21, 2010)

californiagirl said:


> Okay, I'm back from meeting with a sales rep at Canyon Villas.  Some of the info will confirm and some will conflict what has been posted before.  I suspect part of this is that the Marriott employees are so new to this they are still learning as well.  Here are the answers to my questions:
> 
> •	Regardless of enrolling or not in the points program all weeks do not lose any benefit we have had such as the following
> 
> ...



Lisa,

Just curious.  What is the $MF/point you will be receiving in your conversion?


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## NJMOM2 (Jun 21, 2010)

wsrobinson said:


> The VOA was adamant that external weeks would NOT be eligible for MRP.  I'm not sure who has the correct info but she was firm and confident this was not a perk.



The option to trade for Marriott Reward Point has to be available at the resort you own.  It is my understanding that not all resorts have the ability to trade for MR points.  OceanWatch allowed trading EVERY year.  The rep I spoke to asked his supervisor about the every year thing and came back and told me I can only trade every other year.  I also read the every other year thing in the documents found on line for resale owners if the resort allows trading for points  He also told me the program is so great that I would not want to trade for MR points.


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## wsrobinson (Jun 21, 2010)

NJMOM2 said:


> The option to trade for Marriott Reward Point has to be available at the resort you own.  It is my understanding that not all resorts have the ability to trade for MR points.  OceanWatch allowed trading EVERY year.  The rep I spoke to asked his supervisor about the every year thing and came back and told me I can only trade every other year.  I also read the every other year thing in the documents found on line for resale owners if the resort allows trading for points  He also told me the program is so great that I would not want to trade for MR points.



This one I would like to nail down.  It effects me because I puchased Barony externally and would receive 90K points.  I told the VOA that I thought I read it online in the docs and she informed me I was mistaken.  I hope you are right but I wont join until I know.


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## NJMOM2 (Jun 21, 2010)

wsrobinson said:


> This one I would like to nail down.  It effects me because I puchased Barony externally and would receive 90K points.  I told the VOA that I thought I read it online in the docs and she informed me I was mistaken.  I hope you are right but I wont join until I know.



Call back and try another rep. They are all learning the new system too.


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## wsrobinson (Jun 21, 2010)

NJMOM2 said:


> Call back and try another rep. They are all learning the new system too.



Looks like it's been put to bed...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124215&page=2


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## californiagirl (Jun 22, 2010)

Boca, are you asking my cost of maintenance fee per Point?  It varies with each resort.  The most expensive is $.55/point.  The least expensive is $.34/point.  

The tipping point for me was that I was planning to go on the *exact* cruise that is offered for points on RCCL.  If I use my most expensive property at $.55/point it is still $550.00 cheaper to book with points than if I paid out of pocket.  (That is booking with a discount cruise agent.)  Similar situation with the Tuscany package only more $$ savings.  I am not factoring in the initial buy-in cost of the property.  We own our properties and are not making payments on them, so for me that is money already spent.  I feel like I have broken even with the initial investment because of the vacations already taken, bonus weeks and upgrades from efficiency to 2 bdrm etc.  I realize this will not be the case with everyone and I understand their frustration.  But for us it looks like an option with flexibility we will enjoy.


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## m61376 (Jun 22, 2010)

californiagirl said:


> •	Interval deposits remain separate from points deposits.  He said that Marriott can not go in and “raid” a prime week to fulfill a point request.  His supervisor confirmed this.  If I reserve July 4th week at MOC and deposit that week into Interval, then that is the week some other Interval member will get in exchange.



I hope we can get further verification of this. The rep I spoke with told me just the opposite- that Marriott could commandeer a weeks deposit to fulfill a request of a points owner on the waitlist. 

I like your answer much better!


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## DanCali (Jun 22, 2010)

kedler said:


> 4.	As far as reservations are concerned there are 2 pools of weeks (he said this fact is in the documents but did not know where) – one for “weeks” and the other for “points”. Example if a resort has a total of 100 weeks and 50 elect to use their weeks as the always have and 50 others elect to use points you are completing against 50 people for the week you want NOT 100.



But WHICH weeks? Summer weeks for points owners and Fall weeks for weeks owners, as long asthe latter can book a week in their (alleged) season?

And if it was in the docs a tugger would have pointed it out by now...


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## californiagirl (Jun 22, 2010)

m61376 said:


> I hope we can get further verification of this. The rep I spoke with told me just the opposite- that Marriott could commandeer a weeks deposit to fulfill a request of a points owner on the waitlist.
> 
> I like your answer much better!



It seems like for a change this huge Marriott should have trained for a *month instead of a week!*  I'm going to give the reps a little slack for a few weeks until they get a grasp on everything.  The rep I met with today honestly said when he didn't know and asked the supervisor.  I don't think they are intentionally misleading on some of this info...I think they just don't know for sure and are putting their own spin on it.

Hopefully in the next little while we we get accurate info!


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## Bunk (Jun 22, 2010)

I want to make sure I understand the new system.  If I enroll in the new system, can someone answer these questions:

1. If I decide to do an exchange through interval, do I still have to reserve a Marriott week first or is it based solely on points?

2.  Let's say I want to go to Hawaii.  I deposit my Marriott week which is in Florida and has 2,775 points.  I know that I still have the option of getting a non-Marriott time share, if available.  But if a Marriott week valued by Marriott at more than 2,775 points is deposited by someone else interested in an exchange, can I still get it or am I barred by this Marriott policy.

3.  Not sure if Interval has points.  If it does and I deposit a week, do I get the points that Marriott gives me or the points that Marriott charges others for that week (which is about 7% higher).

Thank you.


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## kedler (Jun 22, 2010)

wsrobinson said:


> This one I would like to nail down.  It effects me because I puchased Barony externally and would receive 90K points.  I told the VOA that I thought I read it online in the docs and she informed me I was mistaken.  I hope you are right but I wont join until I know.


I too own Barony Beach and when I spoke to the Points Advisor I was told that I will have the option of trading for MR points - as is written online - for BB because trading for points was an option given the original owners. I own Bronze Season so I only get 50,000 points. I do not get MR points for Harbour Point as it was not offerred to those owners originally. I didn't ask if it was every year or every other year but I'll speak with them again today and let you know.

I just tried to find the information online again and I was only getting up the old website.


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## m61376 (Jun 22, 2010)

Dave M said:


> If you stay as a weeks owner, there is no change to your procedures. You can still book concurrent or consecutive weeks at 13 months. If you remain as a weeks owner, you apparently would not be able to book a single week at 13 months. That's consistent with the no-change to your procedures. (Also see the second bullet in m61376's post above.



Just to add- not only will a remaining weeks owner not be able to book a single week at 13 months, an owner who joins the new program but is booking a week at his/her home resort cannot book at the 13 month mark either (unless they are booking contiguous or consecutive weeks); one can only book at 13 months if a Premier member using points. 

I was also told that the weeks for week owners and the weeks for week owners in the new program using their weeks for the year would share and compete for the same inventory and that point inventory would be separate. 

The bigger question is will point inventory be separate on a week by week basis, or as a total percentage of the available weeks in the season?


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## NJMOM2 (Jun 22, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Just to add- not only will a remaining weeks owner not be able to book a single week at 13 months, an owner who joins the new program but is booking a week at his/her home resort cannot book at the 13 month mark either (unless they are booking contiguous or consecutive weeks); one can only book at 13 months if a Premier member using points.



One can only book at 13 months if a Premier member using points OR an Enrolled owner willing to use 20% more points to book at 13 month.

The Marriott web site is not working correctly for me now so I can't find the link to chart that explains when owners who convert can make reservations using club points.


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## kedler (Jun 22, 2010)

DanCali said:


> But WHICH weeks? Summer weeks for points owners and Fall weeks for weeks owners, as long asthe latter can book a week in their (alleged) season?
> 
> And if it was in the docs a tugger would have pointed it out by now...


Based on the Exchange Program Procedures document:

It does cover the issue in this sense if we as "Exchange Members" deposit our weeks. Deposits are only allowed in 7-consecutive evening increments, lock-off portions are not eligible for deposit, EOY may only be deposited in our use year and used in that use year(odd or even)(subject to banking and borrowing rules). 

Once we take our week and deposit it into Marriott's Exchange Company our week is assigned to the Exchange Company and it "*will automatically have all of such Exchange Member's rights to reserve and use such Use Period for the given Use Year. Once such Use Period has been deposited with Exchange Company, it may not be withdrawn.*"

Throughout the documents there are two categories "Trust Members" who sign an "Affiliation Agreement" and "Exchange Members" who sign an "Enrollment Agreement".  Both Trust Members and Exchange Members are "Members" but the membership privileges are different in that they are governed by different Agreements.

It is the Reservation Window information in the documents (Schedule 2 to the Exchange Procedures) that contains the "meat" of information regarding how and when the various categories of owners have the right to request a reservation. One of the things in that Schedule says that the Exchange Company has the right to restrict or limit the number of reservations made during the Priority 1 Period. It states that it may "withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component [location in the Program] for reservation during other reservation Windows" - of course in their discretion.

There is an "Open Reservation Period" during which Members or the Exchange Company can reserve. It is this period that looks it could be developed into something similar to "flexchange" in the future as it is 0-60 days prior to your stay.

I will post more information from the documents later.


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## siberiavol (Jun 22, 2010)

kedler said:


> I too own Barony Beach and when I spoke to the Points Advisor I was told that I will have the option of trading for MR points - as is written online - for BB because trading for points was an option given the original owners. I own Bronze Season so I only get 50,000 points. I do not get MR points for Harbour Point as it was not offerred to those owners originally. I didn't ask if it was every year or every other year but I'll speak with them again today and let you know.
> 
> I just tried to find the information online again and I was only getting up the old website.



You understand the same way I do. I have Barony,Ocean Point,Harbor Point. I can get points for Barony or Ocean Pointe even if it I bought them in secondary market. I can not get points for Harbor Point even though I bought one from an authorised reseller because they never offered points,

I don't understand some posts about exchanging for points in the new system and using THOSE POINTS to exchange to Marriott hotels. If this different from our rights to exchange our whole week if qualified? Does that option even exists?

Does anyone know?


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 22, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> You understand the same way I do. I have Barony,Ocean Point,Harbor Point. I can get points for Barony or Ocean Pointe even if it I bought them in secondary market. I can not get points for Harbor Point even though I bought one from an authorised reseller because they never offered points,
> 
> I don't understand some posts about exchanging for points in the new system and using THOSE POINTS to exchange to Marriott hotels. If this different from our rights to exchange our whole week if qualified? Does that option even exists?
> 
> Does anyone know?





Apparently you can get Vacation Points (which have a shelve life of a year) and convert them to Marriott Reward Points (which never expire).

From other posts I have read the conversion rate is something like 32 to 1, which isn't very good.


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## siberiavol (Jun 22, 2010)

Spoke to well informed MVCI rep this AM who cleared up some things

1) MARRIOTT REWARD POINTS- Part of my confusion related to Marriott reward points is the fact that they have three sets of rules related to the three categories of owners. First are the weekly owners(Not involved in new program) Second is the legacy(enhanced)owners and third are the new trust owner(points only).

1A Weeks owners -everything remains the same
1B Legacy owners- every thing you had before plus can get points on units that gave points before for developer purposes If your week gave 75000 points before it will now give 75000 points,  EVENTHOUGH YOU BOUGHT IT IN SECONDARY MARKET. If your unit gave no points before like my Harbor Point you can't get reward points for it. IN ADDITION IF YOU BUY EXTRA POINTS, THESE CAN BE CONVERTED TO MARRIOTT REWARD POINTS AT A CERTAIN RATIO.

Example- You have a resale Barony silver and a resale Harbor Point and you buy 1000 new  points in the new program. You could trade the Barony for 75000 Marriott Reward points and you could trade  1000 BOUGHT points for ()? numer of Marriott reward points. You could not convert your new program points NON BOUGHT for Marriott rewards.

1C Trust (points only) buyers have right to trade for )?) Marriott reward points

2) II- new account for legacy owners. You designate what you are trading and deposit it. It should show up in II account. I am not as confident that this is how it will operate as there is some speculation that Marriott will take my designated trade and trade something else.

3) BANKING And USING At some point in the year(she thinks six months) you will have to decide that you are going to bank your remaining points or use them in the calendar year. Example- I have 10000 2011 points . I have used 7500 and July 1 is approaching. I have to tell them I am going to use the 2500 points in 2011 or want them banked. Also if have have 2011 points I could borrow them to use in 2010

I think it is imperative to keep in mind there are three programs not two. As legacy owners if the join the new program we retain options of the old program and have certain overlaps with the new  trust(points only) owners. I


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## griffinhouse (Jun 22, 2010)

•	Interval deposits remain separate from points deposits.  He said that Marriott can not go in and “raid” a prime week to fulfill a point request.  His supervisor confirmed this.  If I reserve July 4th week at MOC and deposit that week into Interval, then that is the week some other Interval member will get in exchange. 


When I spoke to a Marriott rep he also told me that the Interval deposits will be kept separate from the points deposits.  He also told me that we should see no change in availability--we'll have to wait and see on that one.


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## wsrobinson (Jun 22, 2010)

kedler said:


> I too own Barony Beach and when I spoke to the Points Advisor I was told that I will have the option of trading for MR points - as is written online - for BB because trading for points was an option given the original owners. I own Bronze Season so I only get 50,000 points. I do not get MR points for Harbour Point as it was not offerred to those owners originally. I didn't ask if it was every year or every other year but I'll speak with them again today and let you know.
> 
> I just tried to find the information online again and I was only getting up the old website.



Someone nailed this down tight last night.  Yes, you get the MRP if you purchased externally and join the program.  Mouse over the "?" next to your external week on the "Enroll Now" page and you will see the text spelling this out.


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## markbernstein (Jun 22, 2010)

I just spoke to a rep at MVCI, with just a few questions.

II membership:  My current membership runs through May 2011.  If I join the points program, Marriott will establish a new II account, and also maintain the old account until it expires.  The new account can be used for both points-based and week-based exchanges.  If I want to ignore points in a given year, and do what I've done in the past - reserve a week at my home resort, then exchange the *week* (not points) with II, the exchange fee to another Marriott resort is covered by the $165 yearly club fee, as is the II membership.

Since I hadn't yet seen much about it, I asked about banking and borrowing.  The key point, for me, is that you can choose to only bank or borrow a portion of your points.  As an example, my Oceana Palms unit is worth 2625 points/year.  If I wanted to, I could borrow 1100 points from 2012 for a total of 3725 and use it to reserve a 2BR at Frenchman's Cove in January of 2011, then use 1450 of the 2012 points to reserve an off-season 1BR at Manor Club in 2012, and bank the last 75 of my 2012 points into 2013.

The offer of 800 Plus Points for signing up is good through December.


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## divenski (Jun 22, 2010)

m61376 said:


> I was also told that the weeks for week owners and the weeks for week owners in the new program using their weeks for the year would share and compete for the same inventory and that point inventory would be separate.
> 
> The bigger question is will point inventory be separate on a week by week basis, or as a total percentage of the available weeks in the season?



I suspect the latter, but there should be, or at least I hope, some natural averaging over a given season due to the different point costs. Not all people will want to or can pay the higher point costs for prime season weeks. If people with points take out any non-prime weeks, then less prime weeks will be available for points users.


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## DanaTom (Jun 22, 2010)

*Resales not allowed to join, except for those in by 06/20/10*

a few Q's I had and As from Marriott through online chat session. 

Chad I.: Hi! My name is Chad I.. How may I help you?
you : I'm resale owner... if I join the destination points program, I understand I will be eligible for the points as long as I join by 12/31/10...is this correct?
you : Also, there is word going around that it also qualifies me for Marriott Reward Points, but only if I join by 06/22/10...today... is this correct or is there misinformation. thanks
Chad I.: I'd be happy to check on that for you. One moment, please.
Chad I.: If you enroll in the new points program, you will have the opportunity in the future to trade your week at shadow ridge for marriott rewards points. Your gold week will trade for 75,000 Marriott Rewards points. The deadline is not today, but it is encouraged to enroll as soon as possible.
you : Thanks... that's good info. One final Q... I understand that if I later sell my deeded week, the new owner is not assigned my enrollment in the points program. Does that mean the new owner can never join, or will they be allowed to upon payment of a fee to join?... and is the answer the same for Developer purchased resale?
Chad I.: The enrollment does not transfer, but the new owner can enroll the week, but they would not be allowed to trade for points.
you : thanks, and is that the same for resale purchases as well as Developer purchases?
Chad I.: *Correction - any week sold or bought externally CANNOT be enrolled. Weeks purchased through Marriott resales can be enrolled.
Chad I.: I apologize for the confusion.
you : ...but my external resale can be enrolled, correct? Kind of like grandfathered. I think I read external resales after 06/20/10 cannot be enrolled. 
Chad I.: The deadline is the anouncement of the new program, meaning any week sold externally after June 20, 2010 cannot be enrolled, but previously purchased external weeks can be enrolled.
you : Thanks... and for clarification, If I owned a Marriott new or resale and later sold it, it cannot be enrolled by the new owner?
Chad I.: That is correct.


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## hipslo (Jun 22, 2010)

m61376 said:


> . The bigger question is will point inventory be separate on a week by week basis, or as a total percentage of the available weeks in the season?



This is absolutely the KEY question, and I have not yet seen/ heard anything definitive on this point.


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## jjluhman (Jun 22, 2010)

Here is my online chat session.  Hope it helps someone.

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Chad I.!
Chad I.: Hi! My name is Chad I.. How may I help you?
you : Hi Chad. I have a few questions. If I enroll my OS Plat Ocean Pointe week in the new program, do I maintain my own II account for trading outside of Marriott properties in addition to the Marriott II controlled account?
Chad I.: No, you would not neen an additional Interval International account, as the membership would be covered through your club dues. But you would pay the exchange fee for a non Marriott exchange.
you : So I would not have direct access to II any longer?
Chad I.: You would still be able to make all Interval exchanges, but they would be facilitated through Marriott.
you : If I join and trade my week it is available to all enrolled folks, but if I don't join and trade my week it is only available to other folks through II? Or, can Marriott take my week out of II after I deposit it through my own II account to II?
Chad I.: That is correct. If you join, you still have access to all the Interval inventory and if you are looking for a Marriott property, you will have access to the inventory from other enrolled owners.
you : let me clarify what I am trying to ask...are there separate inventories of points weeks and weeks owners weeks the each respective group trades for or does Marriott lump them all into the points system and "raid" II for the good weeks that non enrolled weeks owners are trying to exchange?
Chad I.: Let me look into that, one moment, please.
Chad I.: If you are looking to exchange externally, then the inventory is the same as it always has been. It comes from other owners giving up their weeks. If you are looking for an internal exchange, or another marriott property, the inventory comes from owners enrolling their weeks and any unused weeks be other points owners.
you : Thanks! Ok, if I enroll can I trade my week for another plat week by a simple week exchange or does it have to convert to points to request another Marriott property?
Chad I.: If you enroll your week, you don't have to choose to take the Vacation Club points for the year, so you can still exchange your week as you do now. However, electing points may open up additional options such as check in date and length of stay differences.
you : those benefits are not of interest to me and my points are not high enough to book at most of the places that I want to go and have been able to trade for in the past....So, I want to know that i can still trade for those within the system without converting to points. You are saying that is possible, right?
Chad I.: Correct. Enrolling in the new program is basically and added usage option each year, if its something you are interested in. You definitely have the option of continuing to exchange your week as you currently are doing.
you : Will unused points weeks be dumped into II or will Marriott be exclusively renting those weeks causing exchange through II on our own to dry up?
Chad I.: Unused weeks wont be dumped into Interval so the more owners who enroll, the less weeks will be given to Interval International.
Chad I.: At this point, because the program is new, its too hard to tell if Intervals inventory will "dry up".
you : So,if I opt not to enroll, I will not be able to trade through II for resorts that Marriott builds in the future and sells only as points?
Chad I.: That is correct. Because future properties will be sold as points, it wont be possible for owners to deposit full weeks into Interval system to be exchanged.
Chad I.: *Correction- it is possible that the future developed weeks at future properties could possibly be given to Interval as exchange inventory.
you : If I don't enroll do I still have Marriott to Marriott exchange priority in II?
Chad I.: Yes you would still have Marriott to Marriott exchange priority.
you : Thank you for your help. I don't envy your job this week! Not that Marriott cares, but last week I was a VERY happy owner who considered purchasing additional weeks from Marriott. I will not consider buying into the points program. Instead, I will consider purchasing my additional weeks from other developers. I know it is not your fault, I just want my sentiments (that many others share) to be known. I bought Marriott because I trusted the company and their properties were always top notch. They still have some of the best properties around, but I think the points system is entirely too expensive and has too many loopholes that allow Marriott to change things with no regard for the owners! I cannot imagine that they are going to be selling like hotcakes in this economy! Thank you again for your time.
Chad I.: I appreciate your patience and understanding with me as this is a new program. The points program is an added usage option that will work for some but not all owners. We appreciate your loyalty to Marriott and I will share your sentiments to management as feedback is always appreciated. You are still able to exhange your week each year without enrolling and you will still be able to purchase additional weeks(externally) if you enjoy the program as it is now. Thank you for contacting us and if you have additional questions, we are happy to assist.


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## jaym (Jun 22, 2010)

Here's my chat seesion from today?
Would other please comment on the ability to exchange points in the new program and Club Fees being annual? Is this the consensus on responses from Marriott Customer Svc. Reps?

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Terri S.!
Terri S.: Hi! My name is Terri S.. How may I help you?
you : Hi Terri- hoping u can assist with a question regarding MCVI change for owners.
Terri S.: What can I answer for you?
you : trying to clarify on the change for reserving weeks. How do I reserve now as a "legacy" owner that is not part of points program. how do I reserve, for example, next week? Do I still go online or call to reserve my week at the home resort I have now?
you : After I obtain my desired platinum week at my resort, I then can opt into the points program or offer thru Interval Intl. as a full week? Is that correct? Is something different about reservation process?
Terri S.: You still have the option to reserve your home resort, just as you have in the past. If you then want to deposit that with Interval International for an exchange, you may do that as well. However, once you enroll, you would simply contact you Points Specialists and the would assist you with that whole process.
you : OK, so to clarify, nothing changes for an existing owner in terms of obtaining the desired week within their "season"? I contact Marriott after 9am, online or phone, to request my week. After that, I can opt into the new program to request an exchange. Of course, after the required one time fee and club dues (I think $165) for single week owner. Is this all accurate? thanks. 
Terri S.: You can elect Vacation Club Points for your 2011 usage as long as you do so at least 60 days in advance of the check-in date for your home resort reservation.
*you : OK but process as I described is correct? no change to make the reservation week?*
Terri S.: If you elect to use the 2011 week, and exchange to another property, you would not need to contact Interval International. Your Points Specialists would be assisting with all exchanges or reservaitons.
you : OK. And the club dues, cost of $165., is only paid for any year I wish to elect an exchange? No need to pay it if I will be staying at the home resort I purchased, correct? not necessary for that year, right? So, example, looking to exchange for 2011, opt in to program pay all fees. Following year, 2012, home usage, club fees do not need to be paid?
*Terri S.: Club fees are annual fees.
Terri S.: Paid to Marriott.*
you : Reviewed website and I'm not clear on this payment. If an owner elects to stay at home resort, does not request an exchange, is the club fee still required annually? Or is it paid to Marriott only when exchange is requested and points are used by owner for that year's usuage?
*Terri S.: The club dues are annually, and do not only cover exchanges. They would cover any change or cancel fees, lock off fees, etc.*
you : Please clarify. Marriott will receive an annual "Club Fee" from every member, each year, regardless of whether they decide to exchange their resort useage for that given year? I pay the opt in "Points Program" fee once, but I'm required to submit the Club Dues annually. Is this correct?
Terri S.: You will pay one reasonable fee rather than paying separate fees for membership with Interval International, trading for Marriott Rewards points or using a Lock-Off option.
Terri S.: That is correct.
Terri S.: Club Dues include membership with Interval International as well as any internal exchanges (requests to travel exclusively to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts). Club Dues also include trading for Marriott Rewards points (for Points Owners and Enrolled Owners whose enrolled week(s) are eligible), locking off or splitting your home resort week (for Enrolled Owners whose enrolled week(s) are eligible), cancellation of a reservation, electing Vacation Club Points and banking, borrowing or transferring Vacation Club Points. Club Dues do not include external exchanges (requests that include resorts outside of the Marriott Vacation Club Collection of resorts through Interval International), Florida Club fees (for weeks involved in the Florida Club) or miscellaneous fees of the Explorer Collection; port fees for cruises as an example.
you : OK. thank you for your patience, I have another question. an you elaborate on the invitation period for third party owners to "opt in" to the Points Program? I have read the website but wanted to be clear on the period. As I understand it, I have until December 31, 2010 to join the new program, is this correct? 
Terri S.: I'd be happy to check on that for you. One moment, please.
you : I am undecided on best option but understand there may be a limitation to this offer. What happens after Dec. 31st? I would need to join Interval Intl. separately and cannot use the internal Marriott system to seek internal exchanges to other Marriott resorts, correct? I would have to obtain an exchange from II inventory only, correct?
Terri S.: Thank you for your patience. I am still looking for that information for you. It will be another moment.
Terri S.: There is not a deadline to enroll. However, I your third party week was purchased after June 20, 2010, that week would not qualify to enroll.
you : I have been an owner in MVCI for a number of years so no issue there. So, if exchanging in Interval Intl., is the inventory for weeks distinct and separate from how you plan to fulfill points requests? The program will not draw on the II weeks that are deposited by their subscribers, is this correct? Can you please check on this important issue?
you : If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. The enrollment fee for one externally purchased week will initially be $1,495, and enrolling multiple externally purchased weeks will initially total $1,995. This offer is expected to be available only through December 31, 2010..... You also will gain the benefit and convenience of the annual single-use fee (Club Dues).
you : Terri- note the Dec. 31st date mentioned via the website info.
Terri S.: One moment and I will check for you.
Terri S.: The enrollment price of $1,495 for a single week will be available until December 31, 2010. After that, the price is subject to change.
you : ok, so introductory enrollment fee good until then. Can you answer my question on exchanging with II?
you : How will that be structured for owners that do not enroll?
Terri S.: That would remain the same for owners that do not enroll.
you : Specifically, will Marriott use the Interval Intl. deposited weeks provided by non-enrolled owners? Can you use those to fulfill points owner requests? 
*Terri S.: It is separate inventory.*
you : No shared access between the two entities, correct? They get "weeks" deposits, Points Program gets points equivalent for each resort?
*Terri S.: Correct*
you : OK. I do appreciate your help. One more question, regarding Rewards Points. I am a MRP member. As I mentioned earlier, my MVCI resort was not purchased directly from Marriott. As I never exchanged for points (EOY option) am I going to now be able to do so if I enroll in the Points Program?
you : Does the restriction still apply to owners that did not previously or has the new program, "opened the door" to do so? 
Terri S.: Yes you would be able to trade to points.
you : Please confirm as this seems to be a confusing issue for many now. So, although I was previously unable to use Rewards Pts. as an MVCI owner, by enrolling in the new program, I can now do so? Use the points for hotel "collections" and other new features?
you : That is my Marriott Rewards Points can be applied to Destinations (formerly MVCI) resort collection as well?
*Terri S.: That is correct. You would be changing your week to Vacation Club Points which can be added to your Marriott Rewards points.*
you : thank you. I will use this information to complete my decision on joining the new program being offered to MVCI members.
Terri S.: Yes we are very excited about the flexibility this new option will provide.
Terri S.: You're welcome. Is there anything else I can assist you with?
you : I'm satisfied for now....although I'm sure I'll think of something else to inquire about soon.....appreciate it. 
Terri S.: Please contact us again if you have any other questions or concerns.Thank you for contacting us. We appreciate your business. Have a


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## winger (Jun 22, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Just a thought - I would not bet the farm based on what a Rep. tells you verbally.  When Starwood went through this 10 mos. ago, we got all kinds of incorrect verbal info. from Reps.  It will take the Reps. awhile to get up to speed.



Then WHO/WHERE can you get the answers from, aside from the various enrollment documents?  Seriously, there must be some avenue to get answers directly from Marriott.  Why would a company leave it up to an internet group (TUG, etc.) to 'guess' what the rules are?  That is NOT good business.


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## kedler (Jun 22, 2010)

*More Verbal Answers*

I spoke with the same Points Advisor today that I spoke with yesterday. 

I inquired about the ability to exchange Barony Beach for MRP and asked if it was on an every year or every other year basis. He told me that BB can trade for MRP every other year. 

I discussed the issue of what happens if I enroll in the Exchange Company and then as a weeks owner we make a reservation and choose to deposit our week in II as we've always done. I told him that as I read the documents that if we exchange the week for points then Marriott has complete control of the week. My concern was if I deposit my GV week and want to exchange for Aruba as I've always done that there would be no inventory available because Marriott could "grab" the weeks that weeks owners were depositing. 

He then explained that there are two pools of inventory the weeks pool and the points pool. I told him that I had reviewed the documents available online and I couldn't find it. He said he knew it was in writing and he was going to email me the information as soon as he found it.

I then returned to the issue of what happens with regard to the week being deposited. I pointed out that the documents are more about the Points program and don't seem to really address how Marriott will handle the "old way".  He said that was because we could do it the old way but I pointed out that it was my understanding that if we enrolled Marriott would manage the "old way" trade with II and I would not need to contact Marriott then II, Marriott would do it all. I then pushed him to find me this information in writing too.

I also asked him about borrowing and banking. If you bank points the points must be used by the end of the next use year. If you borrow points and then cancel the reservation the borrowed points will be returned to your account but you will need to use them in that use year. We can trade points between owners. 

If I get the email I'll post the information here.


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## Dave M (Jun 23, 2010)

You can find the written info that shows you can still do it the "old way". For both "Weeks" (what we now are) and "Enrolled" (if we join but choose to reserve and exchange the old way) the language states:

Steps to Exchanging Your Week
Select the exchange method that’s right for you from the descriptions above.
Book your week at your home resort in the normal way. It’s easy to book online.
Place your request with Interval International. Visit IntervalWorld.com for contact information or to place your request online.
Enjoy your vacation!
To find the info (and to find differences for other procedures) separately for "Weeks", "Enrolled" and "Points" owners, follow these instructions:
Log into your MVCI account.
Click on the "Learn More" link under "Understanding Timeshare".
Click on Learn More" under "Getting the Most Out of My Ownership".
Then choose your topic and click on the appropriate ownership category to read how you will be impacted. (One topic is "Exchanging Outside of Marriott Vacation Club", but the discussions include internal and external exchanges.)

*Caution:* In reading these various explanations, there is some info that seem at odds with some of the legal documents and what some people are being told by advisors in chat sessions and by phone. So use caution in what you choose to believe at this point.


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## kedler (Jun 23, 2010)

*Legal documents*

Dave,

I've been trying to find information posted online and being verbally given to us regarding the two pools weeks & points and how Marriott, rather than II, is going to handle our "old way" trades. My concern, like many on this Board, is if I want to exchange the "old way" for another Marriott property the right to do so exists but the inventory won't be there because at least for enrolled weeks owners Marriott will have the right to pull enrolled weeks owners' deposits to fulfill Marriott points owners requests for exchange.

Last night I was able to get back into the site and print the II Buyer's Guide. 
Week-Based Exchange Method:

The weeks exchange method is the method we use now
If using "Deposit First" all rights to the week are immediately assigned to II
The Comparable Exchange Priority appears to be the same
[/LIST]

Points Based Exchange Benefits:

 Points members can only use "Request First" not "Deposit First"

If the points deposited will expire during the pendency of the exchange request an exchange credit may be requested that will give the points member the right to request an exchange for 24 months following the expiration date of the points.
Exchange fee is required if placing request for other than Marriott resort

Marriott Internal Exchange Procedures and Policies:

Marriott is solely responsible for confirming internal (Marriott to Marriott) exchange requests based on Points
*"If Marriott cannot confirm the Marriott to Marriott request "through inventory available in the MVC Club Program, the Club Program Manager will submit internal exchange requests through II and, where the necessary inventory is or becomes available in the Exchange Program, II will issue the Confirmation to the Club Program Manager, who in turn will issue such Confirmation to the applicable Club Program Member*"
The definition of "Club Program Member" includes both Trust (points) and Exchange (weeks) Members
For Marriott Internal Exchanges - the Club Program Exchange Members retain the additional "Special Marriott Internal Exchange Option" as long as placed more than 75 days prior to the commencement of the deposited week

I see NO reference to the maintenance of separate pools of inventory for Club Program Trust Members and Club Program Exchange Members in this guide or any other legal document I've read. 

If anyone else finds something I've missed please post it here.


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## ArtsieAng (Jun 23, 2010)

> kedler
> 
> I see NO reference to the maintenance of separate pools of inventory for Club Program Trust Members and Club Program Exchange Members in this guide or any other legal document I've read.
> 
> If anyone else finds something I've missed please post it here.




I agree, that certainly makes it sound like there will be no separate pools. Sigh. So confusing!


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## Dave M (Jun 23, 2010)

I have no reason to believe that *Interval International* will maintain separate pools of inventory. (That differs from the separate pools of inventory that *Marriott* will apparently maintain for internal reservations.) I have not seen anything that states that II will maintain such separate pools. However, as for weeks and enrolled owners, their exchanges will still be based on comparable exchange methodology, just as in the past and as explained at the links I referenced in my most recent post in this thread. 

To me, the burning question is whether II will decide to fulfill a weeks or enrolled owner's request only after all points requests made by Marriott. I don't know the answer, although it appears that most people are assuming the points request will trump weeks requests.


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## ArtsieAng (Jun 23, 2010)

Dave M said:


> I have no reason to believe that *Interval International* will maintain separate pools of inventory. (That differs from the separate pools of inventory that *Marriott* will apparently maintain for internal reservations.) I have not seen anything that states that II will maintain such separate pools. However, as for weeks and enrolled owners, their exchanges will still be based on comparable exchange methodology, just as in the past and as explained at the links I referenced in my most recent post in this thread.
> 
> To me, the burning question is whether II will decide to fulfill a weeks or enrolled owner's request only after all points requests made by Marriott. I don't know the answer, although it appears that most people are assuming the points request will trump weeks requests.



OK...So if you want to exchange your week through Marriott, your exchange would come out of a "weeks" pool from Marriott's inventory.

If you want to exchange your week through II, and are requesting another Marriott, it's likely that II will first be fulfilling any "points requests" that Marriott has with II, before your "weeks request." Correct?


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## Dave M (Jun 23, 2010)

As I said, "I don't know the answer, although it appears that most people are assuming the points request will trump weeks requests."


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## jimf41 (Jun 23, 2010)

I asked about this yesterday and the rep, Matt ext.3725, said that I would call as usual 12/13 months out to make my Ocean Pointe reservation. I would then say whether I was using points or reserving my week. Assuming availability for both I could choose which method I want to use.

What I didn't ask and I will today is if I choose to use my Ocean Pointe week as points can I just find out the availability at another resort using points before I actually deposit them.

The rep said they will be able to confirm your reservation at your home resort immediately based upon availability just as they do now with the weeks based system. The big question is when do you have to deposit your week as points, before or after you know the availability?


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## NboroGirl (Jun 23, 2010)

*RE: The Two Inventories within Interval*

Today I called and spoke with rep "Cami".  The most important thing I learned today was yes, there will be two separate Marriott inventories within Interval... one for POINTS and one for WEEKS and it doesn't matter whether or not you join the program.  I thought there was one pool for the new Club members and one pool for those who don't convert.  But no...    If you elect not to join, reserve your week, and use Interval to request an exchange, your week goes into the same WEEKS pool as someone who joints the new program, reserves a week, and requests an exchange with Interval. 

Also, if you decide not to join, you will _still_ have access to any future new Marriott properties.  Owners of the new weeks would have to deposit their WEEKS into Interval in order for you to get an exchange, just like now.

Personally, I can't see any reason to use points, even if I decided to join the new system, unless I decided to go somewhere for less (or more) than a week (not likely), or unless I decided to trade down, and even in that case I would probably opt to do an exchange thru Interval rather than use points.  What would I do with the leftover points?  Say you come out ahead 100 points after trading down... these points expire after one year.  What can you do with 100 points anyway?   Sell them?  I am not interested in any of the Destinations trips/cruises/adventures, so there would be no need for me to ever use points.

One of my irritations is the Florida Club fee. I resent having to pay this fee every year even though I have no use for the Florida Club's benefits.  This fee would remain if I decide to convert, which makes no sense to me because I could accomplish basically the same thing with points, but either way I'm stuck with it.


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## californiagirl (Jun 23, 2010)

Jim I specifically asked this question when I met with the rep on Monday.  He asked a supervisor.  The answer is that in order to look at availability for points use, you must have the number of points needed for the exchange in your account already.  So in other words, yes you can look to see if the resort is available for your dates, but you must have given up your weeks for points first.  Or have sufficient points just sitting in your account.


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## kedler (Jun 23, 2010)

Dave M said:


> I have no reason to believe that *Interval International* will maintain separate pools of inventory. (That differs from the separate pools of inventory that *Marriott* will apparently maintain for internal reservations.) I have not seen anything that states that II will maintain such separate pools. However, as for weeks and enrolled owners, their exchanges will still be based on comparable exchange methodology, just as in the past and as explained at the links I referenced in my most recent post in this thread.
> 
> To me, the burning question is whether II will decide to fulfill a weeks or enrolled owner's request only after all points requests made by Marriott. I don't know the answer, although it appears that most people are assuming the points request will trump weeks requests.


The II guide lists priority under the weeks exchange program but that priority is applicable to the individual Club Exchange Members, which by definition excludes Marriott who controls the corporate club within which we will all have individual membership (that would also be why we wouldn't have individual access to II anymore online we'd only have our online Marriott Vacation Club account which would show all our requests, reservations and most likely pending reservations). 

Marriott has full control over the Marriott Points exchange requests and if it does not have the inventory it can request it from II's Exchange Program which includes our weeks and points. Based on the documents its possible that II is going to convert the deposited weeks from the Club Exchange members into points anyway but this fact is less clear. 

We have deeds and rights to reserve a week a year under that deed - fixed or floating - so Marriott will need to make sure that it retains sufficient weeks necessary to fulfill the reservation requests of those owners that do not elect to convert their deeded week into points each year otherwise they would have significant legal issues; however, I think that is where the division/pool of weeks v. points stops. 

There is nothing in Marriott or II's documents that reflects that Marriott will maintain separate pools of inventory when you seek an internal Marriott trade week for week. 

IMO, after reading the documents, the Marriott reps are confusing the concept of a division in inventory for home resort week reservations and trust member points reservations with the concept of a separate pool when we deposit a Marriott week seeking to exchange for another Marriott week as we have in the past. In the case of the later I see not written evidence of such a division existing. 

In this case I'd be happy to be wrong because most of the rest of the new program would work for the way we use our weeks.


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## jimf41 (Jun 23, 2010)

californiagirl said:


> Jim I specifically asked this question when I met with the rep on Monday.  He asked a supervisor.  The answer is that in order to look at availability for points use, you must have the number of points needed for the exchange in your account already.  So in other words, yes you can look to see if the resort is available for your dates, but you must have given up your weeks for points first.  Or have sufficient points just sitting in your account.



Lisa

Thanks, I was afraid of this. I'm leaning towards joining and I guess I'll just have to chance it the first year. I get 4325 for my MPB plat and they want 4125 for a Plat week at the Cove. If it works it's the best thing since sliced bread. I get 200 points leftover for next year and the MF are $300 less at MPB.

What I'm really leery of is that they will correct little advantages like this as time goes on.


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## iamnotshopgirl (Jun 23, 2010)

*Evaluation Answer*

I have a general understanding of the new point system from reading the various threads. I just wanted to know from Marriott how they can value OS & OV units at the Surf Club at the same 3500 level in the Gold Season. So I called this morning and after complaining that I spent thousands of dollars more for my 2 OS units over OV units how can they be valued the same? I was told that when I bought I was buying the "view" (old system) and with the new system it is the "demand week" and not the "view" which is evaluated. I had an idea where this was going before the call and quite frankly I just wanted an explanation from Marriott on how I was getting screwed from them in their own words. Because I paid thousands more! The representative was being monitored in her response as I could hear the call being screened. She certainly did show an attitude and said "you don't have to join". With that I thanked her for her time and hung up. Someone on this bb once told me after I was complaining about the devaluation of reward points, change in the rental policy that the only thing that Marriott owed me was a "vacation". I still have that so I guess I should be happy with either system. 

bob


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## SueDonJ (Jun 23, 2010)

iamnotshopgirl said:


> I have a general understanding of the new point system from reading the various threads. I just wanted to know from Marriott how they can value OS & OV units at the Surf Club at the same 3500 level in the Gold Season. So I called this morning and after complaining that I spent thousands of dollars more for my 2 OS units over OV units how can they be valued the same? I was told that when I bought I was buying the "view" (old system) and with the new system it is the "demand week" and not the "view" which is evaluated. I had an idea where this was going before the call and quite frankly I just wanted an explanation from Marriott on how I was getting screwed from them in their own words. Because I paid thousands more! The representative was being monitored in her response as I could hear the call being screened. She certainly did show an attitude and said "you don't have to join". With that I thanked her for her time and hung up. Someone on this bb once told me after I was complaining about the devaluation of reward points, change in the rental policy that the only thing that Marriott owed me was a "vacation". I still have that so I guess I should be happy with either system.
> 
> bob



I saw something about this earlier in the thread and didn't know if it was another mistake that would be corrected.  But if you've been told it's not a mistake then I agree that this is a legitimate reason to be dissatisfied with what's being offered.  If my SurfWatch OS was valued the same as an OV, then I'd certainly feel like I was getting something more than I should because Marriott sold OV for more.

Have you considered writing a letter to MVCI execs?  It may not do any good but at least you would know that your concern was being handled by someone in a position to actually implement a correction for all owners in your shoes.  It's possible that a letter may be given more attention than a phone call, and certainly contact with an exec is better than with the reps who are handling a large volume of calls these days.  I'd want individual, authoritative attention for this discrepancy, that's for sure.


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## brigechols (Jun 24, 2010)

I contacted Marriott in writing and explained the idea of a system which allows flexibility in terms of check-in date is one thing that I like. I went on to explain that our family enjoys staying at our home resorts and  normally travels during spring break and summer vacation; however if I try to take advantage of the point system and checking in on flexible check-in dates, I do not have enough points (MGV points assigned 3725 vs 4225 to request a spring break week with flexible check-in date; MKO points assigned 4025 vs 4575 to request summer week with flexible check-in date). Below is the "go pound sand" written response from Marriott:

*Dear XXXXXX:

Thank you for contacting Marriott Vacation Club.

If an Enrolled owner wishes to book a reservation at their home resort, then they would make an occupy reservation as they always have for the timeframe they desire within their purchased season. Also, if an Enrolled owner wanted to occupy at their home resort outside their purchased saason they would still have the option to exchange their week through Interval, as they have done in the past.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us via the e-mail address listed below or via our website at www.My-VacationClub.com.

Best regards,

Don Paul
Correspondence Counselor
Marriott Vacation Club
owner.services@vacationclub.com*


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## iamnotshopgirl (Jun 24, 2010)

I called Marriott this morning and asked about trading for MRP for my two Aruba Surf Club weeks. Each week is valued at 90,000 MRP's. In the old system I could only trade for points one week (90,000) per year. In the new system I am able to trade each week every year (180,000 pts). My resale Sabal Palms unit under the old program (0 pts.) and under the new program 90,000 pts. So my understanding is that if I trade all my units for MRP's per year 270,000 points. The Marriott representative verified this.

bob


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## tiel (Jun 24, 2010)

iamnotshopgirl said:


> I have a general understanding of the new point system from reading the various threads. I just wanted to know from Marriott how they can value OS & OV units at the Surf Club at the same 3500 level in the Gold Season. So I called this morning and after complaining that I spent thousands of dollars more for my 2 OS units over OV units how can they be valued the same? I was told that when I bought I was buying the "view" (old system) and with the new system it is the "demand week" and not the "view" which is evaluated. I had an idea where this was going before the call and quite frankly I just wanted an explanation from Marriott on how I was getting screwed from them in their own words. Because I paid thousands more! The representative was being monitored in her response as I could hear the call being screened. She certainly did show an attitude and said "you don't have to join". With that I thanked her for her time and hung up. Someone on this bb once told me after I was complaining about the devaluation of reward points, change in the rental policy that the only thing that Marriott owed me was a "vacation". I still have that so I guess I should be happy with either system.
> 
> bob



You have good reason to be frustrated and annoyed. This is yet another example of the conflicting positions Marriott has taken in this program.  Your "view" is discounted when it comes to evaluating the number of points you are allotted for your week (so you get fewer points than seems appropriate), yet it is given full consideration when it is determined how many many points we must PAY when exchanging into a unit with a "view" (more points are charged for better views).  

So, the "view" _is_ evaluated, just not when it's to the owner's advantage.   Doesn't seem right...


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## UK Fan (Jun 24, 2010)

griffinhouse said:


> •	Interval deposits remain separate from points deposits.  He said that Marriott can not go in and “raid” a prime week to fulfill a point request.  His supervisor confirmed this.  If I reserve July 4th week at MOC and deposit that week into Interval, then that is the week some other Interval member will get in exchange.
> 
> 
> When I spoke to a Marriott rep he also told me that the Interval deposits will be kept separate from the points deposits.  He also told me that we should see no change in availability--we'll have to wait and see on that one.



I am so confused about this!  I was told yesterday that if I reserve a week and deposit it into Interval it would be available to for the point program even if I did not enroll.


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## kedler (Jun 29, 2010)

*Presentation at Grande Vista - Post #22*

I just posted all the information we received during a long owners presentation with a sales guy and a sales manager under the "Has anyone attended a Sales Presentation this week?" thread which you can find herehttp://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124637.

I forgot the *MR point information* in that post you can trade resale weeks for MR points if those units were permitted to trade for MR points initially. In my case Barony Beach was and I can trade for MR point on an EOY basis but Harbour Point wasn't so I can't trade for MR points. You can trade Vacation Points for MR points a the rate of 32:1.


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