# Anyone have recommendations on replacing furnace and central air conditioners?



## glenn1000 (May 22, 2009)

Our house has three furnaces and two air conditioning units that are between 22-30 years old. They all seem to work well but given their age and our large utility bills, it seems like it would make sense to replace them from an efficiency standpoint. Does anyone have recommendations about brands or contractors in the Bay Area? Any ideas would be appreciated!


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## JeffW (May 23, 2009)

Nothing specific, a couple of suggestions:

- determine the efficiency of your current units.  While newer ones are probably more efficient, are they _that _much more efficient?  If your current units were top of the line (or close to) at the time, they may not be as bad as you think.

- check into local and federal tax rebates/credits.  One would have to think with all the talk about energy efficiency, there has to be some $$ available to you.

Jeff


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## sandcastles (May 23, 2009)

I agree with Jeff.

Another thing I would add is that a unit that age is probably much better quality than one you would buy now.


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## 1950bing (May 23, 2009)

When I was faced with it , I had a guy from the power co. to come to my home. He measured everything in my home, closets too. He figured what I needed in a unit and the size. He was not selling anything, actually his time was free. So, I figured I had the best information before I went shopping. Installers are good at installing but I found not so good at knowing just what I need. Don't let the tax rebate make your choice for you. It may be on the higher sear units and you make take a long time to get that back. Have several people offer you costs not just the guy that your friend knows. Also using drapes during the day can save you money too.


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## glenn1000 (May 23, 2009)

JeffW said:


> Nothing specific, a couple of suggestions:
> 
> - determine the efficiency of your current units.  While newer ones are probably more efficient, are they _that _much more efficient?  If your current units were top of the line (or close to) at the time, they may not be as bad as you think.
> 
> ...



Our current units are all about 50% efficient while the newer models we are looking at run at 92-95% efficiency. The units we have now are very good- that was even commented on by one of the contractors giving an estimate. We've also kept our home warranty going for 16 years waiting for these old units to give out but they never have.

In terms of rebates, there is a $1500 federal tax credit this year plus we'd get a total of $750 from our utility company (for three replacement units). 

Since it would be hard to change any of the existing lines in our house without major work, one contractor recommended a slightly older system that uses RU-22, the coolant that is being phased out, since it would be compatable with our current lines. He said the newer systems with RU-410 might blow the lines out and cause damage. Funny that another contractor never mentioned that and proposed a the newer system.

It's all a bit confusing to a novice. There is an inclination to do this to save hundreds a month (hopefully) in utility bills but it's really expensive any way we slice it and our current equiptment seems to work just fine. I'm worried that we'd still have an out of date system if we used RU-22 or end up with possible serious issues if we went with the RU-410.

I like the idea of asking the utility company to take a look. They might have some ideas. Thanks for the thoughts and please let me know if you have any others.


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## bogey21 (May 23, 2009)

My furnance was 25 years old.  I was ok with keeping it until I had it checked out.  It was leaking significant amounts of the bad fumes, whatever they are called.  I had it replaced and looked at the old one.  The rusted out holes where the fumes leaked out were obvious.

Moral of the story.  At least get your stuff checked out.

George


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## Kozman (May 23, 2009)

My best guess is that energy will skyrocket in the next few years.  So, I'd buy the most efficient unit I could afford.  I pretty much did this back in '97 and I'm sure it's paid for itself.


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## Elan (May 23, 2009)

One of my friends owns an HVAC company, and we were just discussing this the other night.  Get a multi-stage system, meaning one that basically supplies based on demand.  Most units are single stage, meaning they are on full blast when they're on.  

  My house is only 8 years old, and I'm contemplating replacing the HVAC system while the tax credits are in place.  I haven't looked into the specifics yet, however, so I might not qualify.


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## riverdees05 (May 23, 2009)

I suggest that you do some research and find out the top 1 or 2 brands, then seek bids for replacement.  There can and will be a lot of price differences between a high quality unit and a not so high quality unit.  I would also, request references from the contractor and talk to homeowners that they have installed units.  Replacing HVAC units can be messy and take time, so it is best to get all the information on the front end.


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## 3kids4me (May 23, 2009)

We also have an old a/c unit (Carrier) and have gotten two estimates for replacement with a Trane.  I'm reluctant to replace until it completely dies because I sense that my current system is probably better than any system I'll be able to afford now...and they are awfully expensive to replace.  It's just that our current system has become very loud when it turns on, so to me that is a sign it may go soon.  I'll be following this thread to see if anyone has advice on good brands.  I also like the idea of calling the power company.


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## glenn1000 (May 23, 2009)

The brand we have now is Rheem and it seems to be very good. We have had the system checked every year or two and it has been quite reliable. The replacements we have considered are Trane and Carrier. Everything I've read suggests that the better brands are pretty similar in quality and that the variable is the installation. We would not consider anything other than a highly rated brand since that's what we are replacing, though I wonder if these will hold up as well as what we now own. We've had two estimates so far and will probably get another.

This appears like a reasonable move but it is so expensive as to give us pause. I agree that we may well see utility rates climb in the coming years and rebates go away, so perhaps this is a timely move. As far as one versus two phases, one installer recommended a single phase for one part of the house and a two phase for the other- I think it's to try and accomodate using our existing lines in that area.


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## stmartinfan (May 24, 2009)

glenn1000 said:


> Our house has three furnaces and two air conditioning units that are between 22-30 years old. They all seem to work well but given their age and our large utility bills, it seems like it would make sense to replace them from an efficiency standpoint. Does anyone have recommendations about brands or contractors in the Bay Area? Any ideas would be appreciated!



Just curious - I'm not familiar with the idea of having multiplue furnaces and air conditioners.  Is it because of the size of your home or how it's layed out?  Even here in Minnesota, one furnace handles most houses, and the single air conditioner takes care of 90+ days just fine.  Gas furnaces are the standard here, and forced air is used in most homes, except for older ones with radiators.  Smaller homes may use electric baseboard heaters for some rooms.


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## ScoopKona (May 24, 2009)

It all depends on location. We have a small forced-air furnace in our attic, and two big honkin' central air conditioners, plus two smaller evaporative coolers for those days when it's less than 100f.

As far as replacement goes, read the reviews, and buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Replacing these things ranks right up there with root canals, being scalded and snake bites.


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## glenn1000 (May 24, 2009)

stmartinfan said:


> Just curious - I'm not familiar with the idea of having multiplue furnaces and air conditioners.  Is it because of the size of your home or how it's layed out?



It's both really. Our downstairs only has heat and there is a furnace in the basement to supply it. The upstairs has heat and AC with a separate furnace in the attic and AC unit on the side of the house. The third furnace is in the garage and supplies an addition to the house above the garage. That also has a separate smaller AC unit sitting next to the other AC.


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## chellej (May 24, 2009)

I just replaced mine in February (Thanks to IKE).  You will only get the tax credit if it is a 14 or 14.5 Seer or higher (not sure of that number so check).  We went with a 4 ton , 14 seer Trane with the variable speed air handler and the clean air effects air purifier.  Cost was right at $11000 installed.

We opted to put in the air purifier over a higher Seer because of DH alergies.   You have to put in the varible speed handler if you do the air purifier


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## KauaiMark (May 25, 2009)

*No A/C, just heat...*

We just replaced our "original came with house" furnace with multi-stage Lennox 95% efficiency model. The original furnace was 33yrs old and the wife has been worried about it for a couple of years when *one time* we couldn't get it going *one day* in winter. 

We got the PG&E rebate of $300 and will qualify for a rebate of $1500 on our taxes this year. I had contact with three different contractors for quotes and went with the "middle" contractor: Valley Heating & Cooling, San Jose

The "low bidder" was more than $1k under but gave me a bad vibe when talking with them. The "high" bidder was $2k over the contractor I eventually selected. So be sure you get multiple quotes and verify they are all going to do the same work in a reasonable "makes sense" to you approach (The "high bidder" was quoting a 50ft condensate line running under the house, the winning bidder did a short run to the outside wall of the garage).

Since we don't have more than a dozen days a year that run higher than 95F, we opted out of the expense and maintenance of an A/C unit. The new furnace has a "fan only" option that the old furnace didn't have.  

We DID have a couple days earlier this month that ran into the mid 90's and just having the fan "moving air" at low speed helped the illusion of a cooler environment.


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## PigsDad (May 25, 2009)

glenn1000 said:


> Since it would be hard to change any of the existing lines in our house without major work, one contractor recommended a slightly older system that uses RU-22, the coolant that is being phased out, since it would be compatable with our current lines. He said the newer systems with RU-410 might blow the lines out and cause damage. Funny that another contractor never mentioned that and proposed a the newer system.


If your existing A/C supply lines are copper, I think the one contractor is giving you a line of BS with regard to those lines "blowing out".  Ask them how, exactly, are the new lines different.

Kurt


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## hvacrsteve (May 25, 2009)

*Send me some info.*

If you can send me a few pictures, model and serial number of what you have, I will send you a recommendation.
A few other questions,
How long do you plan on staying their?
have you upgraded your windows or insulation in the attic, if you have one.
what voltage do you have?
FYI, I am not a rheem or Ruud fan,I was many years but since then they don't stand behind their dealers if there is a problem, the dealer gets stuck with the cost or you if your dealer is not around.
I am not marrried to any brand, I have a few I like.
personally I have 3 trane units and and One Heil unit in my home.
The Heil is my favorite to be honest with you.
It is made at the same factory as Carrier without the advertising budget
and a better warranty.


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## glenn1000 (May 26, 2009)

PigsDad said:


> If your existing A/C supply lines are copper, I think the one contractor is giving you a line of BS with regard to those lines "blowing out".  Ask them how, exactly, are the new lines different.
> 
> Kurt



The one contractor who recommended an RU-22 system in the attic said that our thin copper lines will build up high pressure and that it is really best to redo the lines with larger bore pipes if we want to use an RU-410 system. If we put an RU-410 unit on the existing copper lines, the copper could separate along the seam (copper pipes have a seam along the length) and cause a major problem at some point. Since these copper pipes run through the core of our home they would have to be directed outside (which is not easy or attractive) and would involve some major work and expense. Not sure if it is 100% true but certainly got us worried enough to ask the other contractors about it.


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## glenn1000 (May 26, 2009)

hvacrsteve said:


> If you can send me a few pictures, model and serial number of what you have, I will send you a recommendation.
> A few other questions,
> How long do you plan on staying their?
> have you upgraded your windows or insulation in the attic, if you have one.
> ...



Thank you Steve! I will send the information. 

We have been in our home 15 years and I imagine we will be here another 15 years or more. Window upgrades are not attractive because we have french windows and replacement would be very expensive. The attic insulation is supposed to be good and it is vented with a thermostat controlled fan. Great to hear about another brand alternative. I really appreciate your expert advice.


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## abbekit (Jun 3, 2009)

*We're in the same boat*

Just got a bid to replace our 9 year old builder grade HVAC.  Having trouble deciding on which brand.  The three we are looking at are Trane, Carrier, and Amana.  We have a small 1700 SQ FT single story house.  No basement (we live in Texas).  

Looking at 16 SEER-2 stage unit so will qualify for the $1500 tax credit.  Prices are approximately $9500 for the Trane, $8400 for the Carrier and $8300 for the Amana.  We've been through this before in our old house and went with the Trane (we would use the same company that we used then so we're confident on the installation).  

Now we can't really decide if the Trane is worth $1000 more than the others.  The Amana actually has the best warranty.  

Does anyone have an Amana and are you happy with it?  

I'd really appreciate any advice from you experts out there on these three brands.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 3, 2009)

abbekit said:


> Just got a bid to replace our 9 year old builder grade HVAC.  Having trouble deciding on which brand.  The three we are looking at are Trane, Carrier, and Amana.  We have a small 1700 SQ FT single story house.  No basement (we live in Texas).
> 
> Looking at 16 SEER-2 stage unit so will qualify for the $1500 tax credit.  Prices are approximately $9500 for the Trane, $8400 for the Carrier and $8300 for the Amana.  We've been through this before in our old house and went with the Trane (we would use the same company that we used then so we're confident on the installation).
> 
> ...



Give me the two model numbers of the trane and carrier, forget about the amana, you will need that warranty and read the fine print, you will not like it.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 3, 2009)

*The tax credit*

In what I wrote to you, the 95% trane frunace is the only one on that quote that qualifies for the tax credit.
so that would be $1,500.00



glenn1000 said:


> Thank you Steve! I will send the information.
> 
> We have been in our home 15 years and I imagine we will be here another 15 years or more. Window upgrades are not attractive because we have french windows and replacement would be very expensive. The attic insulation is supposed to be good and it is vented with a thermostat controlled fan. Great to hear about another brand alternative. I really appreciate your expert advice.


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## abbekit (Jun 3, 2009)

hvacrsteve said:


> Give me the two model numbers of the trane and carrier, forget about the amana, you will need that warranty and read the fine print, you will not like it.



Thanks a lot Steve!  We were leaning towards those two but our salesman (I know, he's a salesman) told us that Amana used to have a bed reputation but they were better now. We're pretty sure we'll be in this house until retirement in 10 years (or maybe even the rest of our lives unless we can afford to travel and timeshare full time  ). 

The Trane is a XL16i, the furnace part would be an X-something-90 (not sure).

The Carrier is an Infinity 17 but don't know the exact model number.  

The Amana is ASX 16 with an ADV8 furnace.

We have electric AC and gas heat.

Any of those would require an Aspen or ADP coil in order to meet the guideline for the tax credit. 

We would also get a Honeywell Vision Pro 8000 thermostat.

Your input is great!


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 3, 2009)

Carrier and Trane have some excellent product, many will meet the threshold for the energy credit, stay away from the coils not made by Carrier or Trane!
They are not true ratings and they are not actually tested together!
I see more people falling for that, it is a loophole in the system and in my opinion it is a scam!
I have replaced many of those coils and then the people reduce their utility bills with a product that is actually tested.
I have a customer now that would not settle for anything but his Amana, he wishes he had of listened to me now, it is a Goodman unit.
If you want a Goodman, buy an Amana.
I need actaul model numbers to give you actual input.
I like the variable speed furnaces, I am not a Carrier infinity fan, even though we sell a few, the Honeywell IAQ visionpro blows it away.
I have 4 trane air handlers, 2 trane hp's , 1 trane a/c only and one Heil unit in my house. The Heil is made by Carrier, UTX, United Technologies





abbekit said:


> Thanks a lot Steve!  We were leaning towards those two but our salesman (I know, he's a salesman) told us that Amana used to have a bed reputation but they were better now. We're pretty sure we'll be in this house until retirement in 10 years (or maybe even the rest of our lives unless we can afford to travel and timeshare full time  ).
> 
> The Trane is a XL16i, the furnace part would be an X-something-90 (not sure).
> 
> ...


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 3, 2009)

*The energy star tax credit link*

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3


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## abbekit (Jun 4, 2009)

hvacrsteve said:


> Carrier and Trane have some excellent product, many will meet the threshold for the energy credit, stay away from the coils not made by Carrier or Trane!
> They are not true ratings and they are not actually tested together!
> I see more people falling for that, it is a loophole in the system and in my opinion it is a scam!
> I have replaced many of those coils and then the people reduce their utility bills with a product that is actually tested.
> ...




I cannot tell you how confused I am now.  We were hoping to make a decision soon and didn't want to base it just on the tax credit but our salesman told us the combination of the Trane unit/coil didn't qualify.  I've spent some time in the AHRI website and it made me even more confused.

We're leaving town for a week but I can see now that I need more time to research and think about this major purchase.  I'll get actual model numbers (I thought I had that but obviously my salesman didn't give me all the info).    He did explain about the Goodman/Amana buyout and told us Goodman didn't have a good reputation on their low-end products.  However he did also tell us that Trane had a bad reputation on their coils lately. 

Thanks again so much for your help.  Perhaps after I return I can post again with more detailed info and get your advice.  

I really appreciate the information you've posted.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 4, 2009)

*A 95% furnace qualifies!*

Either a furnace rated at 95% eff. qualifies or a a split can qualify, the max is $1500.00, so it doesn't matter if the cooling and heating qualifies, only one of them needs to qualify!
You only need the certificate of the one that qualifies.
If you give me the sizes you need, furnace output and a/c tonnage, I will print you a list of products that will qualify you for the rebate.
The cooling product is hard to qualify, the heating side is not that difficult.
I am not sure what these lookin at or not looking at.
I can give you names and customers where Amana has had issues, also look at the overall weight of the unit, less weight equals less raw material.
All maufactures have issues, its what they do when they have issues that count!


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## abbekit (Jun 15, 2009)

*Back from cool San Francisco into the Texas heat!*

We need to get moving on getting the AC replaced.  Plus rebates offers are ending soon.

hvacrsteve,

Here are bids and some info about our home.

We live in the Dallas area, have a 1700 SF single story house built in 2000, hot here much of the year so the cooling capacity is our more important concern. Our current builder grade York has never been able to handle the summer afternoon heat.

1. $9930 
Trane 4 ton XL16i #4TTX6048B1000A 
Trane High Efficiency Coil #4TXFH063AS3HHA 
Trane XV80 Variable Speed 2 stage Gas Furnace #TUD080R9V4K

This does not qualify for the tax credit but would if we switched to an ADP or Aspen coil.

2. $9370 
Carrier 4 ton Infinity 17 #24ANA748A003 
Carrier High Efficiency Coil #CNPHP4821ATA 
Carrier Infinity Variable Speed 2 stage Gas Furnace #58CVA090116

This also does not qualify for the tax credit but not sure why.

3. $10410 
Carrier 4 ton Infinity 21 #24ANA148A003 
Carrier High Efficiency Coil #CNPHP4821ATA 
Carrier Infinity Variable Speed 2 stage Gas Furnace #58CVA090116

Now I'm finding this ALSO does not qualify for the tax credit as configured.  

I'm so confused about the tax credit!!!

All of these would include a Honeywell Media Air Cleaner and 2 filters.

We installed a Trane system in a previous home and were very happy with it. 
Have never had a Carrier system but reviews seem good.  

Any advice you can give would be very appreciated!


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 15, 2009)

How hard is it to replace the furnace to a 95% afue product?
This would give you the tax credit.
I will up 4 ton units and see what I can find,
It is very hard to meet it with a 4 ton unit.

Steve


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## abbekit (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Steve.

I spoke to our salesman this afternoon to get new quotes using 3rd party coils (ADP or Aspen) which should qualify for the tax credit.  I don't know how the furnace affects the outcome but I do know that Carrier offers one step up from what we were quoted - the Infinity 80 (80% AFUE) to the Infinity 96 (92.7% to 96.6% AFUE).

I'm waiting to get his e-mail with the new quotes.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 15, 2009)

*Success*

Here is one match that makes it, there are several others as well.

Steve

View attachment Carrier ari13 eer 16 seer.pdf

I would stay away from the other mix matched coils, you will not
get the ratings that they say.

The Carrier ones have been tested.
The others have not!

If the guy can't read or check the ARI, find someone that knows how to.
That is one test of their overall knowledge level.
This guy doesn't seem too smart if he can't find you a factory matchup.
Don't settle for less!


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## abbekit (Jun 16, 2009)

hvacrsteve said:


> Here is one match that makes it, there are several others as well.
> 
> Steve
> 
> ...




I'm still waiting for the salesman to get back to us.  He does use the AHRI site (and showed us how to use it) but I'm not sure if he's found a match yet.

I can't open the pdf you attached, it just kicks me out of TUG every time I click on it.

Thanks again!


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## EZ-ED (Jun 16, 2009)

Interesting topic and I like other posters am anticipating old equipment (in my case a 22 year old Trane 90% efficient gas furnace and Carrier air conditioning unit) may soon head south. 

Both have been pretty reliable over the years but this past winter a control module in the furnace failed and just recently the air conditioning compressor needed charging. While both repairs were relatively minor, it got us to thinking about what we would replace them with. When I started looking into it I was not interested in a tax rebate coloring my decision so that was not considered. 

My decision came down to remaining with Trane heat and Carrier ac. After reading hvacrsteve comments I think I will switch to Heil ac. I have no experience with the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ but will give it a try also. I have not had much luck with programmable thermostats in the past so hopefully this one will work for us. 

One thing I did find out was that the more qualified the installers the less problems a homeowner encountered in the future. So for me that meant a contractor that uses union workers or has long time staff that have been properly trained (which usually translates into more $$$). 

hvacrsteve - thanks for the useful information.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 16, 2009)

*I e-mailed it to you*



abbekit said:


> I'm still waiting for the salesman to get back to us.  He does use the AHRI site (and showed us how to use it) but I'm not sure if he's found a match yet.
> 
> I can't open the pdf you attached, it just kicks me out of TUG every time I click on it.
> 
> Thanks again!





I sent you the one match that I printed. There are others in carrier and I am pretty sure there are a few with Trane.
You will be happy with either.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 16, 2009)

EZ-ED said:


> Interesting topic and I like other posters am anticipating old equipment (in my case a 22 year old Trane 90% efficient gas furnace and Carrier air conditioning unit) may soon head south.
> 
> Both have been pretty reliable over the years but this past winter a control module in the furnace failed and just recently the air conditioning compressor needed charging. While both repairs were relatively minor, it got us to thinking about what we would replace them with. When I started looking into it I was not interested in a tax rebate coloring my decision so that was not considered.
> 
> ...




Thanks, I  have been doing this for 30 plus years, teaching it for 20 plus years or so, I have also gotten my Master Electrical licenses and Master Plumbing License along the way, and thats in 3 states which we work in.
I love what I do and I can't stand it when I see peole being pushed and sold on a way or product thats not going to be beneficial to them.
I have been known to install jobs for customers that were non believers for free if it didn't perform to their satisfaction, I actually got paid on those the quickest.
There is an enormous amount of knowledge required just to purchase the correct system for your home or business, I hope I have enlightened the ones the are interested.
I primarilry do commercial but I have done residential most of my career as well.
Every building owner has a home somewhere.
By the way, you are right about whom installs your equipment, it is 80% of the success of the system!
As far as union workers versus non union, I found the union limiting when I was in it and decided the best for me was to be my own boss.
They had a hard time letting me do three trades and gas fitting.
I have known excellent tradesmen on both sides, it just depends on their leader and his dedication to his or her trade.
My motto is I will not hire anyone I would not give the keys to my home and tell them to do a repair or check up in my home without concern, that is a high bar and I have sacraficed growth for quality.
I can say I sleep very well at night knowing I treated my co workers and my customers the way i would like to be treated and I have propered because of it.
Steve


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## carl2591 (Jun 17, 2009)

I have installed several Goodman unit and they are as dependable if not more so than carrier, trane etc.. goodman has a 10yr warranty you can get for like 110 buck. it comes with a 5 yr right out of the box.  its like a chev and ford.. 
one is better than the other depending on which brand you like.


carrier , trane, rudd all are good.  I like goodman as well.

PS most copper line sets are good for like 400 psi or better.. a RU410 system is not running that much pressure so a new line set is suspect.  the size may be not right for newer unit so that would need to be upgraded but not on pressure issues.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 17, 2009)

carl2591 said:


> I have installed several Goodman unit and they are as dependable if not more so than carrier, trane etc.. goodman has a 10yr warranty you can get for like 110 buck. it comes with a 5 yr right out of the box.  its like a chev and ford..
> one is better than the other depending on which brand you like.
> 
> 
> ...



This is right out of the Lennox install manual, the other companies have similiar verbage!
If you don't have it installed correctly and professionally you could void your warranty!
An existing line set to be re used with R-410 must be flushed!

_*IMPORTANT
If this unit is being matched with an approved line
set or indoor coil that was previously charged with
R22 refrigerant, or if it is being matched with a coil
that was manufactured before January of 1999, the
coil and line set must be flushed prior to installation.
Take care to empty all existing traps. Polyol ester
(POE) oils are used in Lennox units charged with
R410A refrigerant. Residual mineral oil can act as an
insulator, preventing proper heat transfer. It can
also clog the thermal expansion valve, reducing
system performance and capacity.
Failure to properly flush the system per the instructions
below will void the warranty.*_


As for Goodman and Amana equipment, they work and they are cheap.  If money is the main issue, they are an OK choice.
They weigh far less than the major guys because everything in them is thinner and lighter for the most part.( cost less to make)
Personally I wouldn't put one in my house and therefore I don't recommend them for others.


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## TomCayman (Jun 18, 2009)

Had builder grade Goodman 10 SEER central a/c units in my old place...worked fine, but noisy.

New place has four Trane units of between 14 and 19 SEER (yes, was expensive..ouch)... but a) incredibly quiet, and b) very efficient.

Bigger house, went from 6 tonnes of a/c to 13 tonnes... and power usage in the new place is only 55% higher (house is over twice the size).

Not sure if payback on the Trane units will make sense, but love how quiet they run, and nice getting smaller electric bills than I thought.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 21, 2009)

TomCayman said:


> Had builder grade Goodman 10 SEER central a/c units in my old place...worked fine, but noisy.
> 
> New place has four Trane units of between 14 and 19 SEER (yes, was expensive..ouch)... but a) incredibly quiet, and b) very efficient.
> 
> ...



That is one of the major differences, our units we cannot hear run, we just got back from a weekend visit, my wife commented about the noise levels of the HVAC and then said as usual ( theres no place like HOME!)


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## Talent312 (Jun 21, 2009)

Having owned several houses in which I've replaced HACV systems, the only thing that I would add is this:
I would not settle for one or two estimates.  If possible, I like to have at least four, using contractors with brands I prefer (although I recently I've been using the same one).

Four may be more than necessary, but in this area, quotes vary widely.  I would not necessarily go with the lowest.  I look for a contractor that offers both a reasonalble price and certain intangible qualities -- consistency with advice given, openess or a willingness to discuss options, and a professional or well-run operaration (i.e. a class-act).


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 22, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> Having owned several houses in which I've replaced HACV systems, the only thing that I would add is this:
> I would not settle for one or two estimates.  If possible, I like to have at least four, using contractors with brands I prefer (although I recently I've been using the same one).
> 
> Four may be more than necessary, but in this area, quotes vary widely.  I would not necessarily go with the lowest.  I look for a contractor that offers both a reasonalble price and certain intangible qualities -- consistency with advice given, openess or a willingness to discuss options, and a professional or well-run operaration (i.e. a class-act).




Sometimes it takes four just to get one good one!
Your right on with this, when you find a great one, keep him or her, because they are hard to find. I have many customers that just call and give me the job, thye don't even ask the price.
They know I am fair and do what I say I will do!
Happy shopping!


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## 3kids4me (Jun 26, 2009)

Bringing this back to the top to ask about American Standard, which is what my fuel company wants to put in.  We haven't decided which way to go yet...one company wants to do Carrier (much more expensive), one Trane, one Rheem, and now this American Standard!  Arghh!!  (We are talking about a 3 ton a/c unit.)


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 26, 2009)

Bringing this back to the top to ask about American Standard, which is what my fuel company wants to put in. We haven't decided which way to go yet...one company wants to do Carrier (much more expensive), one Trane, one Rheem, and now this American Standard! Arghh!! (We are talking about a 3 ton a/c unit.)

American standard, actually owns Trane , (they share the same factory and assembly line)which is owned by Ingersol Rand. Rheem and ruud are the same company,
Carrier,Heil, Bryant, Day & night, Payne and a few others are all owned by UTX, United Technologies. are you confused more, those companies for the most part have centralized production, share most common parts with each others units.
Trane is the only one that makes its own compressors, everyone else buys them from copeland, Bristol or Tecumseh. there are more but those are the primary ones.


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## 3kids4me (Jun 26, 2009)

Steve...I sent you some stuff...check your PMs.  And thanks!!

Sharon


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## capjak (Jun 26, 2009)

Has anyone heard of Armstrong?  I believe they are owned by Lenox.


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## hvacrsteve (Jun 26, 2009)

capjak said:


> Has anyone heard of Armstrong?  I believe they are owned by Lenox.



Yes they are a division of Heatcraft, which is owned I bleive by lennox, I am not sure which plant they are produced in.  If your interested I can find out more.  It is not a brand I have ever sold or installed.


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