# [ 2019 ] Developer/HGVC Retail pricing



## Mr Smith (Mar 3, 2019)

While I was researching a resale purchase I had a difficult time finding any information regarding the current retail prices of various locations/units.  

As there are people going to the sales pitches I think they should post what prices were offered to them.  

I think this could have a dual benefit. People would be able to see the difference in price from retail to resale, making a decision on which is better for them.  It will also help them negotiate price when buying from developers (if they choose to do so), by having some idea what the different offers have been in the past (similar to rofr.net but for retail). When buying a car, you can see different dealer pricing on the same car and negotiate based on that. 

Any thoughts?


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## Tamaradarann (Mar 4, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> While I was researching a resale purchase I had a difficult time finding any information regarding the current retail prices of various locations/units.
> 
> As there are people going to the sales pitches I think they should post what prices were offered to them.
> 
> ...



I agree it would be good for people to announce the retail prices that HGVC is charging so that people know how much they could save buying resale. 

However, the negotiation benefit is really not an issue.  HGVC won't negotiate.  I tried to trade in 2 of my resale purchases for 2 developer properties and even if I was willing to pay their high $40,000 price they wouldn't negotiate on giving me the 100,000 HGVC bonus points I wanted to close the deal.  I walked.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

Maybe negotiate is the wrong term. I have seen some posts where people bought retail for a price point much higher than others for the same unit.  By having a list of retail prices it will help those who do decide to buy retail make sure they aren’t overpaying for that same unit. Not that buying retail is a good idea, in my opinion.


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## Tamaradarann (Mar 4, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> Maybe negotiate is the wrong term. I have seen some posts where people bought retail for a price point much higher than others for the same unit.  By having a list of retail prices it will help those who do decide to buy retail make sure they aren’t overpaying for that same unit. Not that buying retail is a good idea, in my opinion.



Ok, now I agree with you.  However, you probably can get the same "good" retail price from HGVC by saying No to the first offer, No to the second offer, No again, No again, OK.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

Elara, 3200 bonus,  EOY Studio- 1600 points, $5,500 posted by BellaOcean


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

Dec of 2018 Ocean 22, 1 bedroom every other year, 3400 points, $17,000


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

Elara Las Vegas on November 8th 2018, 5,500 points every other year for around $26k with 10,000 bonus points.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

9-16-18: HGV Grand Islander, 1BR-7,200 points for $48,000 from JHW


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

9-20-18: DC, 28,000 bonus points, 7,000 annual points for $50,000 from Longboat


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## Mr Smith (Mar 4, 2019)

2-29-16 Vegas, 10,000 bonus points, 2,500 points EOY for $11,000 from jhoney


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## cas42021 (Mar 4, 2019)

I havent heard of too many extraordinary deals to be had directly from Hilton. I dont think their room to wiggle is great enough because they are able to sell to enough people at retail pricing. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but if Elite status is what you are after, there are ways to get it via resale at a drastically reduced cost. Good luck and enjoy!


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## alwysonvac (Mar 5, 2019)

There are very few situations where a developer purchase may make sense. However those folks have to understand that they’re going to lose money when it comes time to sell.

Take a look at these two articles on the TUG ADVICE PAGE.
- https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshares_buying_new_or_used.html
- https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cold_hard_facts_about_selling_your_timeshare.shtml

From the TUG articles
_.. Why would anyone buy new if they could get the exact same week, at the exact same resort, for pennies on the dollar from an existing owner?..._​
_...The supply of timeshare resales greatly exceeds the demand for resales. This has always been the case in the timeshare industry due to the fact that so few people even realize you can buy a timeshare resale!...._

_...The simple truth is that there are FAR more sellers than buyers in the timeshare industry. When you have such a glut of products and few buyers, this drives the price down. Also keep in mind that the resale market doesnt have 50% of the sale price of the timeshare tied up in marketing costs like the developers do. (yes you read that right, up to 50% of the sale price of a NEW timeshare, is marketing costs)...._​
_....With this information and considering the struggling economy in the past years and ever increasing maintenance fees, sellers outnumber buyers by a huge margin. This has driven the prices of resales down to levels never before seen in this industry. Some timeshares have depreciated over 99% and it is more and more common for individuals to actually list their timeshares for a single dollar in hopes that someone will take them..._​

Here are some examples of one bedroom gold weeks given away for free on the TUG Bargain Deals Forum that I posted in another thread.

Free hgvc parc soliel 3400 points eoy even 1 bedroom (2017) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...soliel-3400-points-eoy-even-1-bedroom.258500/
3400 Points HGVClub on International Drive FREE (2017) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/3400-points-hgvclub-on-international-drive-free.257875/
Hgvc Kingsland 1 bedroom gold week eoy odd 3400 hgvc points (2016) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...eoy-odd-3400-hgvc-points.245366/#post-1927735
HGVC Parc Soliel(orlando florida)even year usage 1 bedroom gold week (2015) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...a-even-year-usage-1-bedroom-gold-week.234362/
FREE - 3400 HGVC South Beach, Miami (2015) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/free-3400-hgvc-south-beach-miami.232308/

FREE HGVC Parc Soleil 1BR Gold 3400 Every Other Odd year Hilton Grand Vacation Club (2014) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...r-odd-year-hilton-grand-vacation-club.219421/
I’ve attached some resale prices as a comparison.
You’ll see that asking prices are all over the place. Basically some sellers haven’t come to terms yet that it’s a buyer’s market.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 6, 2019)

Unfortunately i have not kept detailed notes on what i have been offered over the year.  Not to mention that i usually wont spend the time to negotiate or get into really price discussions unless i am serious about buying.. and at this point i am very unlikely to buy more developer HGV.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 6, 2019)

The intent isn't to encourage folks to buy retail.  Quite the opposite. Making blanket statements like resale is 30% the cost of retail is helpful, but not very accurate when paying thousands for a timeshare.

If you are able to see how much retail is compared to resale for specific deeds, it should push people towards resale. 

For someone like me who has never attended an owners update, when purchasing resale (which I knew was best due to TUG) I had no idea how much I saved or how much more it might have cost me to buy retail.  I could have saved $30k or it is possible I only saved a few thousand.  Having little experience with the HGVC properties, a list of some suggested retail prices would have been nice for me to have available to help make a decision.  I can't imagine how having more information about a purchase would be a drawback.

For example:  If the room I recently purchased is $4k more retail, I probably would have bought retail.  If it is $20k more retail, I will be more ecstatic about how much I saved knowing an approximate figure.  

 If people are going to "updates" for bonuses, can't see the harm in posting the current retail offers for people to use as a comparison.


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## MikeinSoCal (Mar 6, 2019)

I bought retail and found TUG in time to rescind and I think it's great that others are finding TUG in time in order to save thousands too.  However, if everyone bought resale, what would entice the developers to build?  Don't we need people to feed the machine and buy from the developers?


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## Mr Smith (Mar 6, 2019)

MikeinSoCal said:


> I bought retail and found TUG in time to rescind and I think it's great that others are finding TUG in time in order to save thousands too.  However, if everyone bought resale, what would entice the developers to build?  Don't we need people to feed the machine and buy from the developers?



Good point!

You can't buy resale if people don't first buy the unit retail.  There wouldn't be enough deeds to go around for everyone to buy resale. Prices for resale would probably near developers prices as the demand for resale would be much more.  At that point most of us might change our mind and say buy retail as there is so little savings in resale...lol


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## natarajanv (Mar 6, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> I had no idea how much I saved or how much more it might have cost me to buy retail.  I could have saved $30k or it is possible I only saved a few thousand.  Having little experience with the HGVC properties, a list of some suggested retail prices would have been nice for me to have available to help make a decision.  I can't imagine how having more information about a purchase would be a drawback.
> 
> For example:  If the room I recently purchased is $4k more retail, I probably would have bought retail.  If it is $20k more retail, I will be more ecstatic about how much I saved knowing an approximate figure.



I was able to go to Clark county website to see how much my seller originally paid for the Boulevard unit from the developer. It was $20k more because the original purchase was in 2009.

https://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/RecorderEcommerce/


I was able to do the same for Myrtle Beach property from the Horry county recorders website. This one was $40k more, the original purchase was in 2016.

https://www.horrycounty.org/ocw/


Except for the bonus points, you know exactly how much was paid.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## PigsDad (Mar 6, 2019)

MikeinSoCal said:


> However, if everyone bought resale, what would entice the developers to build?  Don't we need people to feed the machine and buy from the developers?


I'll turn that question around a bit:  If no one bought the timeshares that people are trying to sell because they no longer want to use them, what would happen to those weeks?

Answer:  a good number of those owners would probably stop paying maintenance fees, and then other owners would have their maintenance fees increase to cover the bad debt (this scenario has happened many times at smaller timeshares).  With maintenance fees out of control, HGV would have a harder time selling to new retail buyers because high MF cost reduces the value proposition to prospective buyers.  As has been proven by how much HGV has expanded over the years, there are plenty of people willing to purchase from HGV and redirecting a very small percentage of would-be retail buyers to purchase resale has little to no affect on HGV's operations and expansions.

Kurt


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## Mr Smith (Mar 6, 2019)

natarajanv said:


> I was able to go to Clark county website to see how much my seller originally paid for the Boulevard unit from the developer. It was $20k more because the original purchase was in 2009.
> 
> https://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/RecorderEcommerce/
> 
> ...




This is great after you buy the property knowing the parties names.  Can you look up the deeds for that unit before you buy?


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## natarajanv (Mar 6, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> This is great after you buy the property knowing the parties names.  Can you look up the deeds for that unit before you buy?


Nope, you need the names

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## escanoe (Mar 6, 2019)

I have spent thousands of dollars more on resale timeshares than I ever would have spent buying from a developer. Thanks, TUG! I would have spent $0 buying at developer prices. I have spent in the mid to high 4 digits buying three timeshares at resale prices.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 6, 2019)

natarajanv said:


> Nope, you need the names
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



I found the hawaii deeds for the unit I bought, doesn't list the prices.


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## brp (Mar 6, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I have spent thousands of dollars more on resale timeshares than I ever would have spent buying from a developer. Thanks, TUG! I would have spent $0 buying at developer prices. I have spent in the mid to high 4 digits buying three timeshares at resale prices.



TUG: Costing members thousands of dollars in resale purchases since 1993! 

Cheers,


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## dayooper (Mar 6, 2019)

natarajanv said:


> I was able to go to Clark county website to see how much my seller originally paid for the Boulevard unit from the developer. It was $20k more because the original purchase was in 2009.
> 
> https://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/RecorderEcommerce/
> 
> ...



Checked out mine too. It was purchased in 1994 by the owners we purchased from. They purchased a 2 bedroom Platinum season at the Flamingo for $14950. Since they don’t actively sell Flamingo resale, I wonder what that would cost for a retail one similar to mine?


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## alwysonvac (Mar 6, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> The intent isn't to encourage folks to buy retail.  Quite the opposite. *Making blanket statements like resale is 30% the cost of retail is helpful, but not very accurate when paying thousands for a timeshare.
> *
> If you are able to see how much retail is compared to resale for specific deeds, it should push people towards resale.
> 
> ...


But it is accurate....

We see high resale prices when a new property opens up because there are limited number of weeks available for resale. We normally advise folks that they either buy directly from developer or resale at a higher price now (seller’s market) or wait a few years until the resale competition heats up (becoming a buyer’s market).

You posted earlier “Elara Las Vegas on November 8th 2018, 5,500 points *every other year for around $26k *with 10,000 bonus points”
_
5,500 points is either a One Bedroom Plus in Platinum and One Bedroom Grand Plus in Gold Season. Here are the ROFR.net numbers _​
_

 _​


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## Mr Smith (Mar 7, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> But it is accurate....
> 
> We see high resale prices when a new property opens up because there are limited number of weeks available for resale. We normally advise folks that they either buy directly from developer or resale at a higher price now (seller’s market) or wait a few years until the resale competition heats up (becoming a buyer’s market).
> 
> ...




I think what you posted supports my opinion that a blanket statement doesn’t work.  If you were to say resale is 30% of developer pricing, David M from rofr.net would be able to buy the same unit he posted from the developer for less than a dollar.

  It may be true for the general deal, but not all deals are general in nature.  

If David could see the post that the same unit he bought for $.06 sells retail for $(x) he could see it was a great deal. This case might be an extreme example, but that is my point.  

Now take the other end of the scale.  What if David was offered that unit for $20k and didn’t know much about that property.  Then you tell him retail cost is $26k. The decision which to buy isn’t that clear anymore.  


When I bought the lagoon property resale, I wasn’t sure if it was a great deal or not since I couldn’t find anything for the retail price.  I could only compare it to other resale properties if the resale price was an ok price. If I found out retail is $10k I might have gone that route instead. Had someone posted what was offered to them at an update, my decision would have been much clearer without having to guess. 

Confused why people are hesitant to post what the current retail price was offered to them at the update.  Not sure why giving resale customers additional information would be a bad thing, even if others deem it unnecessary information.


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## alwysonvac (Mar 7, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> I think what you posted supports my opinion that a blanket statement doesn’t work.  If you were to say resale is 30% of developer pricing, David M from rofr.net would be able to buy the same unit he posted from the developer for less than a dollar.



I just quoted what you wrote. There is no set percentage. It varies as explained in my previous posts.
The TUG advice articles are clear. I have nothing more to add. It's up to you to accept what history has already taught us  



Mr Smith said:


> *Confused why people are hesitant to post what the current retail price was offered to them at the updat*e.  Not sure why giving resale customers additional information would be a bad thing, even if others deem it unnecessary information.



Confused? 
Folks have been sharing for years, what they were offered during their sales presentations. 
You found some yourself and posted them in this thread.

Some examples:
2013 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/kings-land-phase-one-just-got-back.201885/#post-1553146
2007 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hgvc-waikikian-prices.49040/


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## Mr Smith (Mar 7, 2019)

My most sincere apologies to all.  

Alwysonvac if your intent was to belittle me and make me feel dumb you succeeded. 

I have accepted that history has taught us resale is cheaper than retail.  The reason I just bought two units resale.  

I wasn’t trying to say people haven’t posted pricing in sales presentations in the past.  The information I have received from Tug’s members has been wonderful.  Was confused why people seemed to not want to post on this thread so the information is available in one place, not having to search threads all the way back to 2007.  

My idea came from not being able to find information on the lagoon tower when I was looking to buy a unit there.  My searches didn’t find anything.  The information may have been posted but I couldn’t  find it with all my searches.

I’m sorry if any of my posts here has offended you by being an ignorant member. I’m not an expert member like you as I just joined Tug.  I’ll take my new mint 3 year membership, sit in the corner and not post so I don’t waste your time with any more ideas I have. 

Thanks to the Tug community for helping me with valuable information I have been able to successfully use.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 7, 2019)

The prices tend to be hand written on a piece of paper during the presentation. The reps make a point of keeping the offer at the end of the presentation so unless you take the paper when they step out of the room or take a photo with your phone it is difficult to remember.

Here are my notes from about 1.5 years ago for Lagoon plat:

OF Premier 9600 pt: $90,930
EOY OF Premier: $59,000
OV 8400 annual: $68,130
2 bdrm Penthouse Plat: $77,640

Kingsland 10,500 pt Phase I Lower floor: $66,340

The prices also increase annually so what was relevant in 2008 will not be relevant now.  When you are shopping you can always call up Florida to see if they can do better than resale, however in most cases they are 2x - 4x resale.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 7, 2019)

I think another thing to consider is that the resale value is much higher for some resorts or even specific units than others.  People are often willing to pay a premium for units with special view, such as ocean front or or good MF to point value.

Its hard to use a specific percent of retail for a guide.  Many people like to use 1$ per point as a resale guideline, i think that is a good starting point, but some units routinely go for more and other less.


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## alwysonvac (Mar 7, 2019)

Mr Smith said:


> My most sincere apologies to all.
> 
> Alwysonvac if your intent was to belittle me and make me feel dumb you succeeded.
> 
> I have accepted that history has taught us resale is cheaper than retail.  The reason I just bought two units resale.



Sorry, no my intent was not to belittle or make anyone feel dumb.
My comment about “history has taught us” was in reference to the significant decrease in prices as the market gets flooded with more sellers over time (not simply resale is cheaper than retail).



> I wasn’t trying to say people haven’t posted pricing in sales presentations in the past.  The information I have received from Tug’s members has been wonderful.  Was confused why people seemed to not want to post on this thread so the information is *available* *in* *one* *place*, not having to search threads all the way back to 2007.



Just start a new thread..

Title the thread something like “Running list of Current Developer Prices”
In the content just keep it simple and state something like  “Let’s try to maintain this one master thread of developer prices. Please post pricing information from your sales presentation here.”
JMHO.. I don’t think it should be a separate sticky thread but if it becomes useful, perhaps one of the existing HGVC stickies can contain a link to this new thread.



> My idea came from not being able to find information on the lagoon tower when I was looking to buy a unit there.  My searches didn’t find anything.  The information may have been posted but I couldn’t find it with all my searches.



Anytime you can’t find something on TUG or need a second opinion, please feel free to post questions. Folks are always willing to help.



> I’m sorry if any of my posts here has offended you by being an ignorant member. I’m not an expert member like you as I just joined Tug.  I’ll take my new mint 3 year membership, sit in the corner and not post so I don’t waste your time with any more ideas I have.
> 
> Thanks to the Tug community for helping me with valuable information I have been able to successfully use.



All sorts of ideas/opinions are shared on TUG and some get implemented and some do not. If any of your ideas are rejected, don’t take it personally.


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## hurnik (Mar 8, 2019)

I like the idea of having a list/sticky/whatever for developer pricing.  I'm always curious what "elite" costs based upon all the folks on FB who think it's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread and all that (LOL).


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## Nowaker (Oct 19, 2021)

Elara in Las Vegas, NV
Studio
$13,900
1,600 points
4,000 bonus points after having rejected this "deal"
offered on 9/18/2021


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## Willywilkes (Oct 19, 2021)

Kings Land - 3400 EOY, I assume studio but don’t remember for sure, $17K but $2K in incentives to knock down to $15k (plus activation & dues), and 6800 bonus points (they claimed a value of over $9K). Offered on 9/26/21. Turned it down to buy resale on eBay a couple days later at the Boulevard for roughly same cost but 14K annual pts and less than double maintenance fee. I told them multiple times before they made an offer that I would need at least 7K points annual but they kept trying to tell me I didn’t. Told me a 7K annual would be over $50k.


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## mscheribel59 (Oct 20, 2021)

Mr Smith said:


> Elara Las Vegas on November 8th 2018, 5,500 points every other year for around $26k with 10,000 bonus points.



Oh my, I just closed  about 2 weeks ago on an Elara EOYO 4800 point platinum E-Bay purchase which  included 2021 maintence fees already paid and it included this years points. It was $890.00, plus closing costs. It complimented a Parc Soliel EOYE 4,800 point I already had. With everything seeming passing ROFR right now, I see no reason not to go thru E-Bay for HGV purchases using reliable resellers.


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