# Point at Poipu Owner Visit & Observations



## tmartin1 (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi,

We just got back from our annual trip to our home resort in Poipu. A few observations/comments/complaints, etc:

1. The pool area and outdoor lanai furniture has been replaced - a HUGE improvement! All the furniture now has padding, it looks great and is much more comfortable. They've added quite a few palapas (I think that's the right term) and threw out the horrible umbrellas in the pool area. I was told by the salesperson that Diamond Resorts spent over a million dollars renovating the pool area. 

There are plans to change all the beds. We will be getting the pillow-top mattresses and new bedding. It looked really nice. They are still promising flat-panel TV's. We've been told that for the last 2 years, however.

2. The nickel-and-diming continues at this resort. It now costs $50 if you don't return a pool towel. Even the pool attendant rolled his eyes and commented how ridiculous it was when I choked on the $208 non-return fee notice I had to sign when I checked out 4 towels.

It costs $1.50 a day to use the safes, even for owners. This cost, although small, really drives me crazy. It hasn't changed from previous years, but I mention it just because I think it's ridiculous. I can't remember ever being charged for this at any other timeshare I've stayed at.

It still costs $10.00 a day to use the internet. No other location we stayed at during this trip (Marriott, Hilton, private condo) charged us.

3. We were given $150 to attend the owner's presentation. In years past, this was always a low-pressure meeting, usually completed within an hour. Not this time - Diamond resorts has brought in a new crop of pushy, high-pressured salespeople. The saleslady actually asked me why we attended if we weren't planning on purchasing - duh! the $150 - thank you very much for the lovely dinner at Keoke's Paradise Diamond Resorts.  

We were also told by one of the sales managers that we're never allowed to attend another sales presentation. This was our last chance.  

4. Of course we were also told by the saleslady that this would be the last year we'd ever get into an oceanfront room since 80% of all the owners have transferred their ownership into the Diamond resorts point system. On Friday, I made reservations for 2009 in an oceanfront room. There were about 20 units to choose from for our check-in date.

5. The front desk is still the unfriendliest group of people I've ever encountered at a timeshare. I don't know what the deal is, but I always seem to have problems with them (I swear I'm nice!). 

6. Overall, we had a great stay as always. I love the resort location and the units. I'm still not sure how I feel about Diamond Resorts. We saw some improvements and there are promises of more to come. But, I think this is a company that will make us pay dearly for everything. The MF fees for 2009 are now $1180 (estimated). 

Theresa


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Theresa, it is a lovely resort!  

I don't like the trend of charging for internet and use of the safe, either.  It's really annoying.  

Those sales presentations are just the pits.  I don't understand asking why we attend presentations and not buy.   Do they really think everyone must buy to hear their spiel?  I hate that question, and one of these days, I am going to make a fool out of myself and scream.  Well, not really.   I am too quiet.  

Shearwater's fees are very similar, so I think yours are in-line with what others pay.  It's so expensive to own on the islands.


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## Werner (Jul 3, 2008)

A small point.  We found out from the manager a few years ago that several of the "services" at the Point are actually concessions, including the safes and I suspect all the gear, including towels, at the pool hut.  Part of keeping maintenance fees under control is farming out as much "stuff" to concessionaires as possible.  They are trying to keep services that not everyone uses off the books.  

RE: Internet cost;  Also my favorite complaint... until we stayed at the Hilton, where it was $15/day.  

We have also had civil, even pleasant, discussions with sales people at the "updates" in the past.  It would be a shame if that changes.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 3, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> We were also told by one of the sales managers that we're never allowed to attend another sales presentation. This was our last chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Theresa



If ONLY DRI would hold true on the promise of "last chance" or "you'll never be allowed to do the owners update again. We've owned with DRI since 1998. Despite being told no more owners updates since you didn't buy this time, they keep trying to get us into the sales room. 

I often wonder if they believe the lies they tell.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 3, 2008)

I have to say that I like having a wired high speed connection into the room instead of wireless.  I am self-employed, and project deadlines don't change just because I go on a trip.

With a wired connection, I can bring a router and set up my office network in the unit, including my Vonage phone adapter.  I can then spend a couple of hours per day working (usually early in the morning) and as far as my clients can tell there's virtually no difference in my service.


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## tmartin1 (Jul 3, 2008)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I have to say that I like having a wired high speed connection into the room instead of wireless.  I am self-employed, and project deadlines don't change just because I go on a trip.
> 
> With a wired connection, I can bring a router and set up my office network in the unit, including my Vonage phone adapter.  I can then spend a couple of hours per day working (usually early in the morning) and as far as my clients can tell there's virtually no difference in my service.



I agree. Unfortunately, I also had to work during vacation and I really appreciated the high speed connection. However, I also had this same wired connection at Marriott and wasn't charged for it. I didn't like paying $70 (even though I charged it back to my client).

Theresa


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 3, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> I agree. Unfortunately, I also had to work during vacation and I really appreciated the high speed connection. However, I also had this same wired connection at Marriott and wasn't charged for it. I didn't like paying $70 (even though I charged it back to my client).
> 
> Theresa



On a more general scale, I totally support the notion of charging people to use the internet.  And I write this as someone who almost always pays for the service. There are many people who are not interested in internet connection, when traveling, and especially not when they are on vacation.  

By charging no one, the hotel is really charging everyone.  Which means that non-users are subsidizing people such as I who do use it. As with towels, I would rather the hotel reduce basic fees, and charge fees for services that not everyone wants to use.

Same thing goes for air conditioning.  If people want to get by without it, lock it out.  Occupants who do want it can pay the daily fee to have it available.


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## alanraycole (Jul 3, 2008)

*I stayed at the Point last January through RCI.*

It is a beautiful resort in a beautiful location on a beautiful island...

But, I too found the employees ALL rude or at best in zombie mode... quite a contrast to most other resorts in the islands. 

Because I exchanged into the resort, I was told that I was to get a garden view even if an ocean view was available. I understand that management may think this provides good motivation to become an owner, but one of their owners gave up a unit that I took... in my book, that makes me tantamount to being their guest and out of respect for an owner's guest, I should be treated almost like an owner. Also, the resort that I traded for this unit doesn't treat guests like third rate riff raff. I can understand owners that are using their weeks for themselves should get first dibs on the ocean views, but exchangers being put in garden views whether there are ocean views available or not is too much!

Finally, I felt this resort probably never heard of a rule they didn't like... they have more rules than any resort I have ever stayed in... or so it seemed.

Would I stay at The Point again? Yes, only because when exchanging into Poipu, one can't be too choosey. I'll be staying at the Lawaii next January for the first time. From what I hear, it, too, has its issues. I guess I will see which is the best of two evils in paradise.

Besides, I had a blast in spite of my issues with The Point. I only modified my usual habits by spending as little time at the resort as possible... it served as a nice place to sleep and eat a few meals.


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## kapear (Jul 3, 2008)

*Some of the Same things at Kaanapali Beach Club*

Some of the more negative aspects of your visit may be due to the diamond change. We recently returned from our home resort, KBC. 

We sat through an owner update with our original sales person. She was so pushy, didn't want to take no for an answer. Her big goal was to get us to convert to the Hawaii trust, no thanks. Or to bring our Pono Kai week into Club Select, no again. Or perhaps buy some more points for a ton more than we paid 4 years ago. Again, no. It felt greta to be able to shoot down anythingshe tried to tell us we'd gain. On a side note, the sales people at both the Westin and Marriott were pretty low pressure. 

The $50 towel charge was in place here as well. 

Most of the employees were pleasant other than the girl manning the juice dispenser at check-in. Even the valet was over heard talking about her sour attitude. 

Free internet was available in the lobby so I trekked down there once a day to participate in my graduate program. I could have paid but the lobby provided a break from the kiddos.

Some of the rooms at KBC had flat screens. Our room didn't and was showing wear and tear on some of the furninshings. We did have some maintenace/housekeeping issues as well. I brought this to the attention of management. 

We did appreciate the reasonably priced kids meals at the Lion's Den. The burger and fries were plenty for an adult. 

Our trash and towels were emptied and replaced daily. We were also given new toiletries daily. The quality of the towels was better than the quality of those at the Sands of Kahana.


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## Dollie (Jul 4, 2008)

alanraycole said:


> Because I exchanged into the resort, I was told that I was to get a garden view even if an ocean view was available. I understand that management may think this provides good motivation to become an owner, but one of their owners gave up a unit that I took... in my book, that makes me tantamount to being their guest and out of respect for an owner's guest, I should be treated almost like an owner. Also, the resort that I traded for this unit doesn't treat guests like third rate riff raff. I can understand owners that are using their weeks for themselves should get first dibs on the ocean views, but exchangers being put in garden views whether there are ocean views available or not is too much!



At the Point you pay for your view.  You can purchase Garden View, Partial Ocean View, Ocean View, or Ocean Front.  The price of the suite increases as you see more ocean, with the biggest jump in suite price going from ocean view to ocean front.  Each of these four views has different amounts of points associated with them.  An owner gets the number of points associated with their view.  If they want to up their view, they have to use more of their points (which they can do by either rolling points over to another year or borrowing points from next year), therefore, it costs owners more to upgrade their view.

I would be very unhappy if someone trading into the Point didn’t likewise have to pay for the upgraded view.  If your trading company has no provisions for this, then you should be placed in a garden view.  If you trade into the Point within Diamond, you must use the appropriate amount of points from the view you select.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 4, 2008)

Dollie said:


> At the Point you pay for your view.  You can purchase Garden View, Partial Ocean View, Ocean View, or Ocean Front.  The price of the suite increases as you see more ocean, with the biggest jump in suite price going from ocean view to ocean front.  Each of these four views has different amounts of points associated with them.  An owner gets the number of points associated with their view.  If they want to up their view, they have to use more of their points (which they can do by either rolling points over to another year or borrowing points from next year), therefore, it costs owners more to upgrade their view.
> 
> I would be very unhappy if someone trading into the Point didn’t likewise have to pay for the upgraded view.  If your trading company has no provisions for this, then you should be placed in a garden view.  If you trade into the Point within Diamond, you must use the appropriate amount of points from the view you select.




That might be all fine and good but, what if I trade my 3 bedroom ocean front Marriott unit for a unit at the Point? Should I be treated like a second class citizen if a better view is availabe? I understand if owners who have paid for their views are using their views but I do not understand allowing a better view go completely unused, assuming the resort is not full of course, just to punish with a poor view just becaue they're an exchanger. 

It's certainly no incentive to own at a resort if exchangers are treated as second class citizens. I will agree that owners of the resort should be afforded the best views but, exchangers shouldn't be stuck with the worst views just because they're exchangers.


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## Kauai Kid (Jul 4, 2008)

We attended the sales presentation last year.  We own two weeks oceanfront, no points thank you very much, no buying twice thank you very much, no trust, etc, etc, etc.
They wanted more to join their system than we paid for the weeks!!

*The super closer was the most obnoxious timeshare salesman * we've ever had the misfortune to experience.  He thought he could force us into their system, with that old "special today only" until I said I want our lawyer to review the documentation before we sign.  He stormed off. 

Keep your $150 Diamond--H will freeze over before we'd ever go to one of their presentations again.  Oh, the "free gift" (is there any other kind of gift?) was an unusable week at one of their other resorts.  Maybe it was a weekend?

Sterling


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## Kauai Kid (Jul 4, 2008)

So with high airline costs and a declining economy was the resort full??  $1180/yr maintenance fees for next year--it was $999/yr last year.  That is an 18% increase for this year.  Oh well, we'll be there. 

Sterling


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## Dollie (Jul 4, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> ....what if I trade my 3 bedroom ocean front Marriott unit for a unit at the Point?



Sounds like your trading company needs to come up with a system that allows an ocean front to be traded for another ocean front.  Diamond does this with the points system through assigning different point values to different views.



dougp26364 said:


> I will agree that owners of the resort should be afforded the best views......



Owners are not afforded the best views.  We pay for the view we want and get the veiw we paid for.  We have the option to upgrade or downgrade the view and again pay for either change.


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## Werner (Jul 4, 2008)

I thought that people who trade weeks rather than points have high, mid, and low traders that they use to trade into different quality level resorts or units.  Why would you make an uneven trade and then expect the resort to give their product away and even it up for you?  

I don't understand the second class citizen stuff, your getting what you paid for.  What more do want?


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## alanraycole (Jul 4, 2008)

*How is someone getting what they paid for in this situation.*

I'll be specific in my exchange. I reserved an ocean view at the Cliffs Club just in case I ended up staying there. Instead, I decided to trade it and wound up with The Point. I didn't get an ocean view because RCI makes no provision for unit views, just unit size and resort ratings. They leave it up to the resort to assign rooms as they see fit. That leaves it up to the integrity of the resort management to treat the guests exchanging into their resort the same way they would want their owners to be treated when they exchange into other resorts. ISN'T THAT THE GOLDEN RULE? I guess we see the integrity of The Point's management... get what you can get and give in return as little as possible.

I am not upset because I didn't get a unit with an equivalent view. I am upset because their policy as reported by the two people at the front desk at the time of my check-in is to give garden view units to exchangers and not even consider any other option, regardless of availability.


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## tombo (Jul 4, 2008)

For owners or potential owners at the Point, here is a week for sale on e-bay. It is not my week, simply an FYI if someone is interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-THE-POINT-A...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Werner (Jul 4, 2008)

> I am upset because their policy as reported by the two people at the front desk at the time of my check-in is to give garden view units to exchangers and not even consider any other option, regardless of availability.



Is anyone aware of a different policy anywhere else?  Is there a "the Point" owner out there that had a Garden View reservation and got upgraded to higher value unit at the front desk?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 5, 2008)

alanraycole said:


> I am not upset because I didn't get a unit with an equivalent view. I am upset because their policy as reported by the two people at the front desk at the time of my check-in is to give garden view units to exchangers and not even consider any other option, regardless of availability.



Alan - that's not quite correct as I understand resort policies.  

At Poipu all units are assigned to one of four view categories.  Ownership rights are specifically connected with specified privileges to view categories.  

Each unit has an assigned check-in day.  So on any given there are fixed numbers of ocean front, ocean view, partial ocean view, and garden view unites available on that day.  When owner reservation requests are made, those requests are assigned to view categories in accordance with the reservation rights of the owner making the request.  If an owner in a specific vew category makes a request and their view category is filled, they are told there is nothing available even if there are other view categories available.  (Qualification to that statement: an owner can downgrade to a lower view category, provided there is an opportunity available to upgrade an owner from that view category to the view category of the downgrading owner.)

Now let's consider what happens when weeks are deposited with an exchange company. When that happens, the reservations system holds a week without assigning that week to a specific view category.  The inventory control system limits the total number of weeks that can be reserved by owners to ensure that room is available for incoming exchangers, but it does not make any assignment of view category.  Owners are allowed to make reservations in accordance with their view categories up to the point that the maximum allowable number of owner reservations is reached.  At that point, incoming exchangers are assigned to whatever "holes" remain in the assigned view categories.  

There are plenty of examples of exchangers who have received primo oceanfront units.

The sales staff in understandably reluctant to allow owners free upgrades in view category, because that undercuts their spiel for buying an upgrade to allow reserving a more expensive view category. 

*****

Overall, though, the reservation system at Poipu is operated to enable reservations to say "Yes' to as many owner reservation requests as possible, even if that means that exchangers sometimes come out on the short end.

As an owner at Poipu, I am totally, unequivocally, unalterably 100% in support of that philosophy, even if that means a downgrade in trading power because of unfavorable comment cards wirtten by exchangers. I own at Poipu to use, not to trade.  Which means I want the resort to do whatever it can to accommodate me and owners like me.

It's too bad if that upsets you as an exchanger, but ther resort is primarily operated for the benefit of owners who primarily own their units for use, not exchanging.  There are many owners for whom that is the primary consideration, and I appreciate that in the wide universe of resorts there are some resorts that make that their #1 priority.  There are other resorts that operate differently, and I have ownerships at those types of resorts that are units I use only for trading.

In America there is freedom for different resorts to operate differently to meet different needs and interests. Is America a great country, or what???


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## Werner (Jul 5, 2008)

Steve,  We also use our home resort, the Point, for most of our TS time.  We trade internally within the Diamond System occasionally, notably to Ka'anapali, where we can select bedroom and view categories, with points assigned for each combination.  When we trade Diamond Points through II the only categories are resort "star" level and # bedrooms.  We always get the "plain vanilla" view when trading through II.  I'm surprised anyone would expect more.  

In Alan's trade for Cliffs Club, which is also a Premier resort, I think he has a legitimate beef with RCI for allowing such an unbalanced trade.  Isn't it their job to equalized both sides of a trade?  I don't trade weeks so I don't really understand how the system works but I'm quite sure that the people at the front desk at the Point have no idea what he traded.  Neither does the person who actually does the scheduling, who is nowhere near the front desk.  That information is all buried in RCI's computers.  

Maybe we are doing something wrong but when we check in the front desk just does their jobs and the owner updates have been civil (so far).  We have our own collection of minor bitches about this and that but overall its working.  Maybe owners really are treated differently than traders but our trade history through II would suggest that the Point's policies are typical.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 5, 2008)

Dollie said:


> Sounds like your trading company needs to come up with a system that allows an ocean front to be traded for another ocean front.  Diamond does this with the points system through assigning different point values to different views.
> 
> 
> 
> Owners are not afforded the best views.  We pay for the view we want and get the veiw we paid for.  We have the option to upgrade or downgrade the view and again pay for either change.



DRI exchanges through I.I. just like Marriott. I also am well versed in DRI's internal exchange system as I have 26,500 THE Club points. 

My point was that external exchangers shouldn't be treated like second class citizens just because they are outside exchangers. Outside exchangers should not be automatically assigned the worst view in the resort.

I am very well aware that DRI owners pay for the views but, if there is an empty ocean side or ocean front unit, I see no reason for the resort to assign an exchanger a garden view unit just because they don't own at the resort.


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## alanraycole (Jul 5, 2008)

*By way of comparison...*

One of the last times that I was at the Cliffs Club front desk I was waiting in line behind an exchanger who asked for an ocean view unit. After a brief computer check by the clerk, the exchanger was told there were no ocean views available, but without any further prompting, the clerk noted that if the exchange guest was willing to pay a cleaning fee, she could take what was available at the moment and two days following she could switch to a ocean view unit that would become available at that time.

Now that is what I am talking about! Consideration, affinity, courtesy, and going the extra mile to accommodate!


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## Werner (Jul 5, 2008)

Alan,  If I change your scenario just slightly, lets assume you own a "Dumpster" view at Cliffs Club rather than an Ocean Front and the exchanger checking-in in front of you schmoozes the front desk into upgrading to the  last empty Ocean Front.  If it was me I'd be into the manager's office like a speeding bullet.  Why wasn't that offered to the next owner of a dumpster view that checks in?  

Different strokes, I guess... I think on this issue the Point's policy is sensible and consistent with my own experience with II trades.


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## pioneer girl (Jul 5, 2008)

tmartin1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> We just got back from our annual trip to our home resort in Poipu. A few observations/comments/complaints, etc:
> 
> ...



Theresa,
Thank you for sharing your observations.  We will be staying there later this year and I would always prefer to know about additional fees and deposits and general information about the resort accomodations and amenities instead of being "surprised" at check in.   In my experience, daily safe charges are not usually assessed at hotels and at the timeshares I have stayed at, so that would have been a surprise.   I always take my laptop on vacation because I use it an alternative resource to find information on places to visit, restaurants, etc.   Sometimes there is a line of people waiting to speak to a concierge or one might not available at the moment that I have a question (like at midnight), so looking it up online is quick.  But I don't plan to spend much time on the computer, so $70 seems steep for a week.


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## citymouse0_1 (Jul 5, 2008)

Last year I exchanged into Kona Coast II.  Without even requesting it we were given one of the best  units in the whole resort.  I didn't expect it, but it was great and made me want to own there.

If someone exchanged into the resort that I own at and there was an empty oceanfront unit I would want them to have it.


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## alanraycole (Jul 5, 2008)

*Well, I am happy to further clarify the situation.*



Werner said:


> Alan,  If I change your scenario just slightly, lets assume you own a "Dumpster" view at Cliffs Club rather than an Ocean Front and the exchanger checking-in in front of you schmoozes the front desk into upgrading to the  last empty Ocean Front.  If it was me I'd be into the manager's office like a speeding bullet.  Why wasn't that offered to the next owner of a dumpster view that checks in?



My owned unit at the Cliffs Club is in the rear of the property. For all I know, it does have a view of a dumpster. I wouldn't know because I have never stayed in it or even checked it out. At the Cliffs, units float. I requested and received an ocean view, just as all owners can do. The only time that an exchanger has a chance of receiving a better unit than an owner is if the owner doesn't bother to make the request for the best unit available. But none of that matters, because none of that has anything to do with the issue. 

At The Point, I requested an ocean view and was told that I would be assigned garden view, regardless of availability of the better units. However, at the Cliffs Club, an exchanger can enjoy an ocean view if the ocean views have not all been reserved by owners. This is a profound difference in decency. The internal workings of the owner reservation system have nothing to do with what is done with the left over ocean view units that were not reserved by the owners. Common decency dictates that they be made available to exchangers.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 5, 2008)

alanraycole said:


> My owned unit at the Cliffs Club is in the rear of the property. For all I know, it does have a view of a dumpster. I wouldn't know because I have never stayed in it or even checked it out. At the Cliffs, units float. I requested and received an ocean view, just as all owners can do. The only time that an exchanger has a chance of receiving a better unit than an owner is if the owner doesn't bother to make the request for the best unit available. But none of that matters, because none of that has anything to do with the issue.
> 
> At The Point, I requested an ocean view and was told that I would be assigned garden view, regardless of availability of the better units. However, at the Cliffs Club, an exchanger can enjoy an ocean view if the ocean views have not all been reserved by owners. This is a profound difference in decency. The internal workings of the owner reservation system have nothing to do with what is done with the left over ocean view units that were not reserved by the owners. Common decency dictates that they be made available to exchangers.



Alan - if I get a chance  I will check on that when we are there later this summer, as that flatly contradicts what I have been told by the head of the reservations department at Poipu in the past.  As I mentioned, there are plenty of exchangers who have been assigned ocean view and ocean front units.

Plus, as I indicated they can't really implement that policy without throwing the whole inventory management system for the resort out of whack.

Could be, though, that some changes might have been made since I last checked into it about four years ago.


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