# Point at Poipu



## Kauai Kid (Apr 9, 2012)

It is official.  We are no longer owners at the Point.

Mixed feelings since we had two deeded oceanfront weeks but $1400 was getting at the high end of tolerable and the $5800 special assessment drove us over the edge,

Too much for retirees.


Sterling


----------



## siesta (Apr 9, 2012)

Did you pay the SA before you sold?


----------



## estory (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm interested in selling my week also.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## Beefnot (Apr 13, 2012)

siesta said:


> Did you pay the SA before you sold?



I dont think there is anyone who would buy it without the assessment being paid.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 13, 2012)

With the pending class action lawsuit, which I'm convinced will only succeed in increasing MF's for owners rather than accomplish any meaniful stated changes, now was probably a good time to get out, even if you had to pay the SA and give the weeks away. 

This is one of the dangers of owning a timeshare. If the HOA does not collect enough in cash reserves and if the management company doesn't maintain the resort, it will bite owners in the end. Sunterra never maintened their resorts and many owners are finding out the true cost of shoring the MF's for several years. P@P is a very extremem example of what can go wrong then the HOA and/or mangement company (in this case the former management company) fail to collect adaquate funds to keep the resort going.


----------



## Evet (May 14, 2012)

Kauai Kid said:


> It is official.  We are no longer owners at the Point.
> 
> Mixed feelings since we had two deeded oceanfront weeks but $1400 was getting at the high end of tolerable and the $5800 special assessment drove us over the edge,
> 
> ...



Sterling, I too own this same timeshare.  Can you share how and who you used to sell it. I've posted my timeshare today on this site, but wonder if there are other options.   I'm in a place now, that its just not feasible to keep any longer.  If you feel more comfortable going off line, please feel free to email me at evet_dickinson@surewest.net

Thanks for any help you can offer. Evet


----------



## artringwald (May 14, 2012)

Evet said:


> Sterling, I too own this same timeshare.  Can you share how and who you used to sell it. I've posted my timeshare today on this site, but wonder if there are other options.   I'm in a place now, that its just not feasible to keep any longer.  If you feel more comfortable going off line, please feel free to email me at evet_dickinson@surewest.net
> 
> Thanks for any help you can offer. Evet



I just bought another week at P@P from a seller on RedWeek.com. It costs $15/year to join, so you're slightly less likely to encounter scammers. Unfortunately, there's too many sellers, and not many buyers, so it will be harder to sell if none of the SA is paid off. The person I bought from paid the 2012 fees, the 2012 SA, and had not used the 2012 week.


----------



## dougp26364 (May 14, 2012)

artringwald said:


> I just bought another week at P@P from a seller on RedWeek.com. It costs $15/year to join, so you're slightly less likely to encounter scammers. Unfortunately, there's too many sellers, and not many buyers, so it will be harder to sell if none of the SA is paid off. The person I bought from paid the 2012 fees, the 2012 SA, and had not used the 2012 week.



I think at this point the best way to sell any timeshare is to pay the current years MF, possibly the next years MF and any/all assessments, transfer fee's and closing costs associated with the timeshare. 

There are some timeshare's that have residual value on the resale market. Unfortunately, DRI resorts typically aren't amoung them. DRI has to many poison pills for resale buyers. If you buy a DRI week resale, you really should be in a position where it's a resort you want to own vs a resort you want to exchange. DRI MF's are to high to buy one of their weeks just to exchange. 

The only value a timeshare has is in the vacations you can take. Very often there is no cash value to a timeshare. Sure there are exceptions but, most of those are higher end timeshares like DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, Starwood et... The DRI's, Bluegreens, Wyndham's, Festiva's and SVC's of the timeshare world are essentially worthless in the resale marketplace. It seems to me you almost always have to essentially pay someone to take them off your hands. If you make a couple of bucks on the sale, then it's a good deal. But if you lose a few hundred getting rid of it I don't necessarily consider it a bad deal compared to the ongoing MF's and expenses of ownership if it's something you can't use.


----------



## dougp26364 (May 14, 2012)

artringwald said:


> I just bought another week at P@P from a seller on RedWeek.com. It costs $15/year to join, so you're slightly less likely to encounter scammers. Unfortunately, there's too many sellers, and not many buyers, so it will be harder to sell if none of the SA is paid off. The person I bought from paid the 2012 fees, the 2012 SA, and had not used the 2012 week.



The Point is a nice resort with a very good location. Now is a great time to pick up additional weeks under the right circumstances if it's a resort week you can and want to use. With DRI's MF's, I'm not sure I'd want an additional week unless it's someplace I really wanted to stay on a regular basis.


----------



## artringwald (May 14, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> I think at this point the best way to sell any timeshare is to pay the current years MF, possibly the next years MF and any/all assessments, transfer fee's and closing costs associated with the timeshare.
> 
> There are some timeshare's that have residual value on the resale market. Unfortunately, DRI resorts typically aren't amoung them. DRI has to many poison pills for resale buyers. If you buy a DRI week resale, you really should be in a position where it's a resort you want to own vs a resort you want to exchange. DRI MF's are to high to buy one of their weeks just to exchange.
> 
> The only value a timeshare has is in the vacations you can take. Very often there is no cash value to a timeshare. Sure there are exceptions but, most of those are higher end timeshares like DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, Starwood et... The DRI's, Bluegreens, Wyndham's, Festiva's and SVC's of the timeshare world are essentially worthless in the resale marketplace. It seems to me you almost always have to essentially pay someone to take them off your hands. If you make a couple of bucks on the sale, then it's a good deal. But if you lose a few hundred getting rid of it I don't necessarily consider it a bad deal compared to the ongoing MF's and expenses of ownership if it's something you can't use.



I agree with all of the above. The only reason we bought at the P@P is because we like the resort and location so much and ownership is about the only way to get oceanfront in February. Hopefully, when we get too old to use it anymore, we'll find a way to get rid of it so the kids don't have to worry about it. In the mean time, when hope to be going there for many more years.


----------



## siesta (May 15, 2012)

artringwald said:


> . Hopefully, when we get too old to use it anymore, we'll find a way to get rid of it so the kids don't have to worry about it.


 why do I read this so often. If your kids dont want it, they dont have to inherit it. Plain and simple.


----------



## dougp26364 (May 15, 2012)

siesta said:


> why do I read this so often. If your kids dont want it, they dont have to inherit it. Plain and simple.



I think it's because timeshare salesmen hit this point as a benefit so often, people believe the kids don't have a choice.


----------



## artringwald (May 15, 2012)

siesta said:


> why do I read this so often. If your kids dont want it, they dont have to inherit it. Plain and simple.



Is that true of all timeshares? What happens too them? Do they go back to the owner's association?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (May 15, 2012)

artringwald said:


> Is that true of all timeshares? What happens too them? Do they go back to the owner's association?


The process as I understand it is that the executor of the estate would ask the probate court for permission to abandon the property after having made reasonable efforts to find someone to take over the property.  After receiving permission the property is removed from the estate and the estate can then be terminated.

Once that occurs, the property no longer has any owner.  There maybe a title with a name, but the named entity does not exist.  At some point the HOA is likely to foreclose on the property for non-payment of dues.  Or if it is a property where the owner is responsible for taxes, the local government will take over the property for non-payment of taxes. But if nobody does anything the property sits there in limbo, much like an abandoned car or boat.


----------



## twofortheroad (May 15, 2012)

Could you just discuss this with your kids and if they don't want it leave it to the management company, HOA, whatever the case may be, in your will?
Sounds too easy, doesn't it?


----------



## pedro47 (May 15, 2012)

twofortheroad said:


> Could you just discuss this with your kids and if they don't want it leave it to the management company, HOA, whatever the case may be, in your will?
> Sounds too easy, doesn't it?



Sound great to me.


----------



## BJRSanDiego (May 16, 2012)

*By the time the foreclose it will be too late*

I've read (from others) that

1.  If you will something to someone that they are not obligated to accept it.  So if you leave a timeshare to your errors... oops...I meant heirs, they can accept it or reject it.  If it is a piece of property (TS) and it has a debt (MF) they aren't obligated to accept the asset with an encumbrance.  

2.  It usually takes 6 months or more before foreclosure proceedings are initiated.  I had read somewhere that in most states that if there is an outstanding liability or encumbrance against an estate that there is a six month period to express that encumbrance.

So....  if I understood this correctly, the TS vacation club is unlikely to file (in time) an encumbrance against the estate.  If the executor is savy, he'll ignore any claims after the 6 month point.  

I think that I'm going to make a note in my living trust regarding this.  

I like the idea of willing the TS to a relative that wants it, or the vacation club or one of the mgmt company execs. 

When I get done with timesharing, I'll probably just pay the MF and closing costs and sell it for $1 on Fleabay.


----------



## dougp26364 (May 16, 2012)

BJRSanDiego said:


> I've read (from others) that
> 
> 1.  If you will something to someone that they are not obligated to accept it.  So if you leave a timeshare to your errors... oops...I meant heirs, they can accept it or reject it.  If it is a piece of property (TS) and it has a debt (MF) they aren't obligated to accept the asset with an encumbrance.
> 
> ...



I'll start by saying that each state is different.

When I settled my mothers estate, the probate lawyer put the necessary adds in the proper publications and all creditors of the estate were notified of the death, the probate filing and the deadline for filing a claim against the estate. All claims properly filed were paid from any funds available by the estate. There was one debt of $32,000 that failed to file a claim against the estate in the time alloted by the court. They were out of luck, they were not paid and the estate was discharged. 

If the deceased owes a mortgage on the timeshare they must be notified properly according to state law. They then have the right to file a claim against the estate and, if it's a valid claim, will be paid out of the estates value. If the estate does not have enough value to pay all debts then the court will decide how much each valid debtor will receive. 

My bet is they'll file a valid claim in the timeframe alloted. I was stunned when the one failed to file against my mothers estate.


----------



## robcrusoe (May 16, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> I'll start by saying that each state is different.
> 
> When I settled my mothers estate, the probate lawyer put the necessary adds in the proper publications and all creditors of the estate were notified of the death, the probate filing and the deadline for filing a claim against the estate. All claims properly filed were paid from any funds available by the estate. There was one debt of $32,000 that failed to file a claim against the estate in the time alloted by the court. They were out of luck, they were not paid and the estate was discharged.
> 
> ...


So your family had a debt and they didn't pay it?


----------



## singlemalt_18 (May 16, 2012)

*Interesting discussion...*

Although a TS may be “worthless”, how they are valued in terms of estate settlement is an important question; it is an asset that needs to be given some appropriate value in order to be taxed.  Does anyone have any recent experience on this issue?

Another small fly in the ointment for even a well thought-out estate plan that could delay estate settlement and add administrative costs is ancillary probate.  Typically, owning assets in a state other than one’s primary state of residency requires additional filings in the probate court of the state where the property is located.  Unfortunately, timeshare ownership can add a layer of complexity to even the simplest of estates.

It is not uncommon to have certain taxes that may be due by heirs be paid out of the estate, saving them out-of-pocket expenses.  Similar to facilitating a sale, a strategy that could possibly soften the beaches and help entice (or coerce) a potential heir to accept a timeshare asset and not disclaim it, could be achieved thru the use of a maintenance fee sweetener.  

If you were to spell out in the will that whoever gets the TS is also to receive an amount equivalent to the first two or three years’ MFs, it could go along way toward making the asset seem less of a burden.  Heck, you could even throw in a prepaid tank of gas or a credit towards airfare!  Who knows, if someone were to actually try using it, they may appreciate it?

Also a note of caution for living trusts; they are only for when you are living.  Upon death a “living” trust terminates and is no longer valid.  A living trust is not a substitute for a properly drawn will... or for an irrevocable trust that has had assets properly transferred into that ownership.


----------



## rifleman69 (May 16, 2012)

twofortheroad said:


> Could you just discuss this with your kids and if they don't want it leave it to the management company, HOA, whatever the case may be, in your will?
> Sounds too easy, doesn't it?



What happens if your kids pre-decease you and you never update your will?


----------



## Fisch (May 17, 2012)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Also a note of caution for living trusts; they are only for when you are living.  Upon death a “living” trust terminates and is no longer valid.  A living trust is not a substitute for a properly drawn will... or for an irrevocable trust that has had assets properly transferred into that ownership.




A living trust does not end when you die.  In a living trust you assign a successor trustee.  That transfers the ownership of said trust to them with no court fees, no lawyer fees and no probate.


----------



## singlemalt_18 (May 17, 2012)

Fisch said:


> A living trust does not end when you die.  In a living trust you assign a successor trustee.  That transfers the ownership of said trust to them with no court fees, no lawyer fees and no probate.



Sorry, thanks for correcting... I was confusing certain tax issues and revocability.  It can indeed be a proper substitute for a will so long as assets are properly placed in the trust ownership.

The point I was wanting to make was about funding the trust.  The pitfall many times is where trust documents were drawn up and established, but there is inadequate follow-thru in actually transferring assets into trust ownership...  or aligning beneficiary designations, and maintaining the details of the trust over the years.


----------

