# Ray Rice video



## Clemson Fan (Sep 9, 2014)

TMZ released the video today of what happened inside the elevator back on Feb 15th.  It was shocking to say the least!

I have a predication, I think the NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell, is going to lose his job over this!  Not because he initially only suspended Rice for 2 games, but I think he's going to be caught up in a lie and cover up.  

After the video was released today, everybody was shocked and asked the question of how could Rice only be suspended for just 2 games for knocking his fiance out cold and then dragging her out of the elevator like a sack of potatoes?  The NFL then came out with a statement today that they did not see the video until today.  What!?  Really!?  I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

After the NFL came out with that statement, Harvey Levin, the founder of TMZ, came out and said that his source who provided the video told him that the NFL did in fact see the video inside the elevator.

I think this story is going to continue to escalate and turn into an NFL cover up that will cost Roger Goodell his 44 million dollars/year job!  That's just my opinion, but I think this is where it's going.


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## Bucky (Sep 9, 2014)

Since TMZ was the only source out there with this tape it doesn't really surprise me that the NFL didn't see it! 

I don't really care what happens to Goodell but I hope Ray Rice is banned for LIFE! There needs to be some examples set to make sure this doesn't continue to happen in the future.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

According to TMZ The NFL absolutely did see the entire video


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## ace2000 (Sep 9, 2014)

There is no way it will be proven that Goodell saw the video before giving the punishment.  However, the NFL representatives did see the video.  

I don't see the episode causing Goodell to step down.  He'll definitely catch some heat for it though.  

Here's a source...



> “We have spoken to multiple sources at Revel Casino, which of course is now closed, but we’ve spoken to people who were working there at the time,” Latibeaudiere said. *“And we are assured that someone from the NFL — it wasn’t Roger Goodell walking in, we know that — but there were people from the NFL who came and saw the video. So now the question becomes how much of that information got back to Roger Goodell, and did he ever see an actual copy of the video?”*



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/nfl-knew-ray-rice-knockout-video-report-article-1.1933016


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## VegasBella (Sep 9, 2014)

I think it will escalate too.
Fans are angry and will demand more severe action be taken. I agree with them.

Ray Rice may also be suffering from head injury. Or he may claim he is. So really this could bring two issues to the forefront of public attention: domestic violence and football-related repeated head trauma.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

Apparently "we", collectively being the public, TMZ, the NFL, the media. Have ruined Mr. and Mrs. Rice's life.  This according to Mrs. Rice herself.  Apparently she has broken her silence to come out and explain how her life has been ruined.  

Sadly she doesn't seem to understand that that blow could also have ruined her life, but in a totally different way.


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## laura1957 (Sep 9, 2014)

No, obviously she does not get it - She went on and married him after that video was taken


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## geekette (Sep 9, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Apparently "we", collectively being the public, TMZ, the NFL, the media. Have ruined Mr. and Mrs. Rice's life.  This according to Mrs. Rice herself.  Apparently she has broken her silence to come out and explain how her life has been ruined.
> 
> Sadly she doesn't seem to understand that that blow could also have ruined her life, but in a totally different way.



Have not seen speaking out you refer to.  Hard to believe it would be her actual thoughts and feelings on the matter.  I believe she has so far been told what to say and do.  I have no proof.

From where I sit, her life is much more in danger today than ever before.


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## waffles77 (Sep 9, 2014)

geekette said:


> Have not seen speaking out you refer to.  Hard to believe it would be her actual thoughts and feelings on the matter.  I believe she has so far been told what to say and do.  I have no proof.
> 
> From where I sit, her life is much more in danger today than ever before.



She also posted these thoughts on her Instagram account:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...by-her-man-during-horrible-nightmare/related/

I also think that her life is in more danger now that everything is available for the public to see and jobs were lost.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

waffles77 said:


> She also posted these thoughts on her Instagram account:
> 
> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...by-her-man-during-horrible-nightmare/related/
> 
> I also think that her life is in more danger now that everything is available for the public to see and jobs were lost.



Yup.  That.

And I might actually, maybe, POSSIBLY believe her, had I not seen the video.  

If we pick it apart piece by piece, she was mad at him, she came at him in the elevator.  Now, let's just _assume_ for the sake of the argument that she was antagonizing him for some time, he had had it "up to here", she came at him one more time, and he lost his cool.  It happens.  Let's suppose he hit her out of frustration (not justifying it, just follow along here).   His reaction AFTER was more telling, to me, than his actual punch (though that said a lot to his capacity for anger and violence).  If we had seen after the hit a man who instantly regretted his decision, bent to the floor, scooped her up, cradled her head, yelled for help, omg what have I done, etc…  Then, maybe, just maybe….  

But no.  His body language showed a man clearly _annoyed_.  Annoyed that she passed out, annoyed that her lifeless body was blocking the elevator, annoyed that he couldn't just scoop her up and walk away.  

Did she see the video? Did she see his apparent lack of concern, of remorse?  A blow that is severe enough to render someone completely unconscious for some time is a blow that is severe enough to KILL.  You don't have to have the intent to kill for it to actually come to be.   At the time he hit her, when she could not move, how did he know he HADN'T killed her, or at least caused a blow she might not come out of?  And not to a total stranger, but to the woman he was planning on spending the rest of his life with???


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## VegasBella (Sep 9, 2014)

The most dangerous point in time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she tries to leave him. Please do not ever blame a woman for refusing to leave. That refusal may be the only thing keeping her alive.

http://www.thehotline.org/2013/06/50-obstacles-to-leaving-31-40/


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

VegasBella said:


> The most dangerous point in time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she tries to leave him. Please do not ever blame a woman for refusing to leave. That refusal may be the only thing keeping her alive.
> 
> http://www.thehotline.org/2013/06/50-obstacles-to-leaving-31-40/



I guess what I meant to say is, I might not be so quick to judge him had I seen a different reaction, a remorseful, thoughtful reaction, AFTER he hit her.  

I don't mean to sound like I blame her.  I do not.  I've seen it firsthand (not me, personally) .  But to take to social media to blame OTHERS…  I guess I just don't understand the mindset behind this.


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## sun&fun (Sep 9, 2014)

Oh my, the things that happen on camera in elevators! Beyonce, sister and JayZ, Des Hague and puppy, and now Ray Rice and Janay. Not to make light of a brutal assault, but folks-- you are being watched.


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## pedro47 (Sep 9, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> According to TMZ The NFL absolutely did see the entire video



This is a very sad story. Three or four months ago the now Mrs. R Rice could have die from  that blow to her head that night. Two, a real man would never hit or strike a female., unless that female was robbing him or physically doing  bodily harm to him. Third, a good young football player life and career could be over because of public opinions. Four, this type of physical abuse crime is on the rise in our country.


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## Fern Modena (Sep 9, 2014)

Rice's wife has what is known as a victim's mentality. Self preservation is one of the highest orders of life. 

Hopefully some day, before it is too late (it almost was already) she'll be strong enough to walk away, even if she has to walk away with nothing. One thing I'm not sure of, is his child also her child? If so, that makes it more difficult for her, but if she becomes strong enough she could.

I heard that the DA where it happened already offered Rice a sweetheart deal, no trial, no time, etc. Too bad it didn't happen in California. In California you don't need the victim to press charges, The State can press charges in cases of domestic abuse.

Fern


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 9, 2014)

*This story is about the NFL and Ravens- not Rice*

This is another example of a tremendous lapse of reason.  What explanation was there for his fiancée being dragged  unconscious out of the elevator?  He obviously hit her.  Whether she assaulted him or not, his actions were completely wrong. Basically anybody with a brain knows that he knocked her unconscious.

What you have here is basically a cover up by the Ravens and the NFL.  Everyone knew what happened.  No surprises.  The video basically woke up that part of the public that is usually asleep in la la land.  Once those people woke up the Ravens and the NFL knew that they were exposed and had to try once again to cover up THEIR  egregious behavior  by sacking ray rice permanently.

As far as I am concerned that video shows nothing that most people didn't already know.  The story is the NFL and Ravens cover up.


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## Passepartout (Sep 9, 2014)

pgnewarkboy said:


> The story is the NFL and Ravens cover up.



I can't disagree with this. In DW's family law practice, we frequently see cases of domestic violence, and I always wonder why the battered spouse (usually, but not always the wife/girlfriend) doesn't leave. Sometimes staying is how they survive. They often don't feel- rightly or wrongly- that they have nowhere to turn. I shake my head that abusers always seem to be able to find someone who'll tolerate being abused.

In a more perfect world, abuse wouldn't happen, but in this one, the NFL, the Ravens, the hotel, and the police let this woman down. Rice should have been jailed, and when released after some significant time, fired, and blackballed from the NFL.

Just MHO.

Jim


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I can't disagree with this. In DW's family law practice, we frequently see cases of domestic violence, and I always wonder why the battered spouse (usually, but not always the wife/girlfriend) doesn't leave. Sometimes staying is how they survive. They often don't feel- rightly or wrongly- that they have nowhere to turn. I shake my head that abusers always seem to be able to find someone who'll tolerate being abused.
> 
> *In a more perfect world, abuse wouldn't happen, but in this one, the NFL, the Ravens, the hotel, and the police let this woman down. Rice should have been jailed, and when released after some significant time, fired, and blackballed from the NFL.
> *
> ...



I did not know where this occurred, I just heard the story and saw the video.  Aside from Ray Rice's behavior, I was most struck by the guy who stood there, with his walkie talkie or whatever in his hand, talking to someone, but just looking down at the woman as though she was some drunk hooker on the side of the street.  Then other people walked by and stood there.  Finally someone went over to the woman and tried to comfort her.  Then, they just let him scoop her up and walk out???  WTF???  

I sure wish there was audio.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 9, 2014)

Thing I find sad that it only took the releasing of the video of the action already admitted to by both parties involved...to have this action taken by the team and the league.

everyone knew he hit her, he even admitted to it...yet until the actual video came out...he was all set to play next week.


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## Elan (Sep 9, 2014)

The NFL is a huge brand and the league office will go to any length to protect that brand.  Watching the "Spygate" story unfold told me all I needed to know about the integrity of the NFL -- you can't trust anything that comes out of Roger Goodell's mouth.


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## letsgosteelers (Sep 9, 2014)

TUGBrian said:


> Thing I find sad that it only took the releasing of the video of the action already admitted to by both parties involved...to have this action taken by the team and the league.
> 
> everyone knew he hit her, he even admitted to it...yet until the actual video came out...he was all set to play next week.



action by team and the league?  Where was the action by the police?

There should have been charges against him.

I'm sure Rev Al will be all over this...


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## TUGBrian (Sep 9, 2014)

letsgosteelers said:


> action by team and the league?  Where was the action by the police?
> 
> There should have been charges against him.



I am pretty sure both he and his wife agreed not to press charges against each other in lieu of them submitting themselves to counseling etc.

at least I remember reading that back when it all happened.


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## letsgosteelers (Sep 9, 2014)

TUGBrian said:


> I am pretty sure both he and his wife agreed not to press charges against each other in lieu of them submitting themselves to counseling etc.
> 
> at least I remember reading that back when it all happened.



I thought that is taken out of the hands of the parties if there is a witness or in this case a video of the altercation?  Aren't the police required to file charges?


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 9, 2014)

The NFL and the Police should take a huge hit on the handling of the case.  I mean seriously 2 games?! It should have been the whole season right off the bat.

As for the wife having a victim's mentality, I don't believe this is the case with this women because this would be her opportunity to leave him and take half his $25mil. She would've gotten a lot of sympathy and support if she had but she obviously isn't your normal woman in this situation who often times doesn't have anywhere to go and made a decision to stay for whatever reason. 

It can't be for money and not likely fear, although that can't be ruled out,  so she stayed either because she truly loves him or she really felt in some way she contributed to the whole sad event.


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## Fern Modena (Sep 9, 2014)

We didn't see the whole video, or any sound. The man who was outside the elevator when it opened had a walkie talkie, and was a hotel employee. He said something to the effect that the woman had passed out from drink. Ray Rice said nothing. The hotel employee then said No Cops, and Rice again said nothing and continued to pull the woman out and handle her like a bag of potatoes. If he cared, and it was an accident for which he felt bad, wouldn't he have lifted her and carried her out and be cuddling her and trying to get her help? Instead he was thinking of his sorry a**, IMHO.

Fern


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## Fern Modena (Sep 9, 2014)

In a victim mentality the woman generally is made to feel that in some way it was her fault.

Fern



MOXJO7282 said:


> It can't be for money and not likely fear, although that can't be ruled out,  so she stayed either because she truly loves him or she really felt in some way she contributed to the whole sad event.


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## Fern Modena (Sep 9, 2014)

There is enough blame to go around. Isn't it interesting that the NFL and the Ravens didn't do anything until WE saw the video? The video had been around for quite a while, the hotel knew it had it, and according to the news, the police had seen it and so had Ray Rice and his attorney. So that tells me that the NFL and the Ravens didn't want to investigate it too deeply. They and even the district attorney, wanted to just make it go away as quickly as possible.

And now the NFL has suspended Ray Rice indefinitely? Even by their new criteria, he should have only gotten a six game suspension (although if fired, it is really moot, isn't it?). The NFL needs to think over its own policy. It should have said "a MINIMUM of six games on the first offense."

In reality, what I just said isn't even satisfactory. The policy should be "Hit your woman, and your sorry behind is GONE." Period. No second chances. Big men, any men truly,  shouldn't get a free pass for beating on women (or visa versa). It never stops at once. Do we have to keep giving them more chances?

Everyone who gave Ray Rice a pass should be gone, IMHO.

Fern


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## nazclk (Sep 9, 2014)

*Video*

Pedro, you are correct it is on the rise. The sad part about the whole thing is that he is just one of many(that didn't get caught) he is going to be the preverbial sacrifical lamb if you will.  What I really don't get is that he slapped the sh*t out of her and she still married him, what's up with that. She said on some info blog that she hopes the people that let out the video know that they ruined "their" lives.


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## DeniseM (Sep 9, 2014)

Regarding questions about why he wasn't prosecuted, etc.:



> *March 27: Rice indicted on aggravated assault charges*
> 
> Rice had his charges upped to aggravated assault from simple assault after the case was presented by prosecutors to a grand jury. Aggravated assault carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Meanwhile, the simple assault charges against Palmer were dropped.
> 
> ...



http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/5/23/5744964/ray-rice-arrest-assault-statement-apology-ravens


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## Icc5 (Sep 9, 2014)

*NFL needs lots of help*



laurac260 said:


> I guess what I meant to say is, I might not be so quick to judge him had I seen a different reaction, a remorseful, thoughtful reaction, AFTER he hit her.
> 
> I don't mean to sound like I blame her.  I do not.  I've seen it firsthand (not me, personally) .  But to take to social media to blame OTHERS…  I guess I just don't understand the mindset behind this.


My wife and I question lots about this.  He shouldn't have ever touched her.  We also heard today that she spit in his face.  How can they ever have married?   Spit in his face, punch her out, wow, what was the honeymoon like?
The NFL needs to council every player from the time they enter the league.  These are no longer adults but now untrained animals.  The last few years you have had a users, animal crualelty, drug dealers, drug users, murderers and who knows what else?   Examples for kids, I think not.  Maybe we will find they all have brain injuries?  I used to love the GAME of football, not anymore.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

Icc5 said:


> My wife and I question lots about this.  He shouldn't have ever touched her.  We also heard today that she spit in his face.  How can they ever have married?   Spit in his face, punch her out, wow, what was the honeymoon like?
> The NFL needs to council every player from the time they enter the league.  These are no longer adults but now untrained animals.  The last few years you have had a users, animal crualelty, drug dealers, drug users, murderers and who knows what else?   Examples for kids, I think not.  Maybe we will find they all have brain injuries?  I used to love the GAME of football, not anymore.



Yea, I watched the video again, and it did appear that he spit on her as she walked by (is that what you meant, that HE spit on her?)

What I was saying, "my previous post", is that if he had shown some remorse AFTER, I might have thought, maybe, maybe he just had been pushed to the breaking point (long before we saw the video), and acted out.  And that doesn't EXCUSE his behavior, but it would cast him in a little bit different light, if he hit her, and then said oh my god, what on earth have I done???  He did not.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 9, 2014)

the NFL already has programs in place to council all rookies coming into the league about their finances, common mistakes, etc etc.

if anyone hasnt seen the ESPN episode titled "broke"...its truly eye opening as to just how ill prepared so many of these men are in their late teens early 20s for the money,success and spotlight placed on them when making an pro team.

stat is something like 78% of all NFL players are broke within a few years of retirement...its crazy.

ha...episode is on youtube now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSOAwNSv8EM


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## letsgosteelers (Sep 9, 2014)

Report was that she spit on him.

Does it matter though? You have the strength to put her through the wall, does that mean you should because you were spit on?  Hell no. 

What it does tell you is this is not a good relationship (that's probably one of the lowest things someone could do, just goes to the class of the person) so cut your losses and move on. 

Why did she marry him? c'mon folks, we all know the answer ... $$$


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## Icc5 (Sep 9, 2014)

*What I Heard*



letsgosteelers said:


> Report was that she spit on him.
> 
> Does it matter though? You have the strength to put her through the wall, does that mean you should because you were spit on?  Hell no.
> 
> ...



This is what I heard that she spit on him.  My point was she spit, he decked her, how could two human beings be so stupid to marry after this?  Yes, agreed, money.  But why would he then want to marry her?  I wouldn't have hit her or ever wanted to be near her again.  More like two animals.


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## DeniseM (Sep 9, 2014)

We know (based on countless studies) that people who are involved in domestic violence as adults often grew up with domestic violence as children so it seems "normal."  

Boys who grew up with fathers who abused their mother are more likely to be abusive partners themselves.  Girls who grew up seeing their father abuse their mother are more likely to get involved with men who are abusive.  They don't even know it, but they are prewired for it.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

Icc5 said:


> This is what I heard that she spit on him.  My point was she spit, he decked her, how could two human beings be so stupid to marry after this?  Yes, agreed, money.  But why would he then want to marry her?  I wouldn't have hit her or ever wanted to be near her again.  More like two animals.



Watch the video. Not that it matters, but HE did spit on HER, and then she slapped him away.  Then they walked over to get on the elevator.  What we don't know is what happened before they came in view of the camera


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## Tia (Sep 9, 2014)

I watched it x2 and to me it looks like he spit at her at the very beginning outside the elevator as she walked by then again also in the elevator. 

Abuse has a cycle of behaviors. Very smart women can get caught in the trap. For those women that do get out heard it takes an average of ~7 times for them to finally leave the abuser, some never leave. 

http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/



laurac260 said:


> Watch the video. Not that it matters, but HE did spit on HER, and then she slapped him away.  Then they walked over to get on the elevator.  What we don't know is what happened before they came in view of the camera


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## am1 (Sep 9, 2014)

Fern Modena said:


> There is enough blame to go around. Isn't it interesting that the NFL and the Ravens didn't do anything until WE saw the video? The video had been around for quite a while, the hotel knew it had it, and according to the news, the police had seen it and so had Ray Rice and his attorney. So that tells me that the NFL and the Ravens didn't want to investigate it too deeply. They and even the district attorney, wanted to just make it go away as quickly as possible.
> 
> 
> Fern



Do not forget all the Ravens fans and people in power that did not speak out against him representing Baltimore, Maryland, DC etc.


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## Luanne (Sep 9, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Watch the video. Not that it matters, but HE did spit on HER, and then she slapped him away.  Then they walked over to get on the elevator.  What we don't know is what happened before they came in view of the camera



I'm not sure that anything that happened before they came in view of the camera could justify what he did to her in the elevator.


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## laurac260 (Sep 9, 2014)

Luanne said:


> I'm not sure that anything that happened before they came in view of the camera could justify what he did to her in the elevator.



Of course not.  Not sure why you would think anyone was implying..?


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## letsgosteelers (Sep 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Of course not.  Not sure why you would think anyone was implying..?



Don't take it the wrong way Laura, but your comment saying you don't know what happened before the camera was in view sorta leads to imply that *whatever* happened could have contributed...maybe not outright, but it opens the door.

I can state that it does not matter what she did prior, at that moment in the elevator she did not present a threat to him so there is no scenario that occurred prior to that that would justify him knocking her out.  I mean her head slammed into the rail and bounced off.  It was brutal.

Then you have his behavior afterwards, as others mentioned, no regard for her well being, more annoyed than anything else.


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## laurac260 (Sep 10, 2014)

letsgosteelers said:


> Don't take it the wrong way Laura, but your comment saying you don't know what happened before the camera was in view sorta leads to imply that *whatever* happened could have contributed...maybe not outright, but it opens the door.
> 
> I can state that it does not matter what she did prior, at that moment in the elevator she did not present a threat to him so there is no scenario that occurred prior to that that would justify him knocking her out.  I mean her head slammed into the rail and bounced off.  It was brutal.
> 
> Then you have his behavior afterwards, as others mentioned, no regard for her well being, more annoyed than anything else.




The particular comment you are referring to was simply a discussion about who spit on who.  .  Both you and someone else said they had heard "she spit on him", and I was clarifying that, when you look at the video, "HE spit on HER", and that when I said "we don't know what happened prior", I was meaning, we don't know if she spit on him prior (which might be why you might have heard that.)  Nothing that happened prior excuses his behavior.  I was simply saying, the video SHOWS HE spit on her before they got on the elevator.  Someone somewhere also said the video looked like she spit on him IN the elevator.  None of this really matters, though, it's just showing one more way that he was instigating her, and perhaps she was instigating him as well.  It shows what appears to be a volatile relationship to begin with, which escalated way out of hand.  

And you are right, it doesn't matter in the outcome at hand, however, I ask that you please don't misconstrue what I am saying.


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## letsgosteelers (Sep 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> ...
> 
> And you are right, it doesn't matter in the outcome at hand, however, I ask that you please don't misconstrue what I am saying.



Sorry I didn't mean to misconstrue, I was just responding that I thought Luann's comment was directed at that mention of not knowing what happened before...  

I guess it's the nature of online comments that can be misinterpreted and there is not an immediate opportunity to clarify what was meant but I certainly didnt mean to put words in your mouth.

again my apologies, and also to you Luann if I misinterpreted what you were responding to as well.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 10, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> We know (based on countless studies) that people who are involved in domestic violence as adults often grew up with domestic violence as children so it seems "normal."
> 
> Boys who grew up with fathers who abused their mother are more likely to be abusive partners themselves.  Girls who grew up seeing their father abuse their mother are more likely to get involved with men who are abusive.  They don't even know it, but they are prewired for it.



That's right.  Some people are "conditioned" to be abusers and some people are "conditioned" to become victims.  We can't look to the abusers, victims or enablers for rational answers because it's an irrational behavior.

Sometimes I think that that domestic violence will never be fully eradicated, because violent tendencies will always exist in human nature, but right now I'm astounded at the number of young girls (who aren't intimately familiar with domestic violence) I see posting to Facebook who are blaming the victim in this instance.  "Why did she even get on the elevator with him?  Why did she marry him?  Why didn't she just leave?  Why is she blaming the media and not him?"  Of course the questions are (surprising? inappropriate? - not sure of the correct word here) no matter who asks them but with so many educational programs geared directly to young girls, their thinking process surprises me most of all.


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## laurac260 (Sep 10, 2014)

letsgosteelers said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to misconstrue, I was just responding that I thought Luann's comment was directed at that mention of not knowing what happened before...
> 
> I guess it's the nature of online comments that can be misinterpreted and there is not an immediate opportunity to clarify what was meant but I certainly didnt mean to put words in your mouth.
> 
> again my apologies, and also to you Luann if I misinterpreted what you were responding to as well.



Thanks, I appreciate that.

I am having a hard time with all of this, too.  No, this isn't the first time we've heard of domestic violence, but to have it right there, IN YOUR FACE…  My comments about Ray Rice…  My feelings… remind me of something I read in a novel recently, to quote:  "We may not be perfect, but we're good, and good people can't imagine evil.  It catches us by surprise, and always will."

To me, as hard as it was to watch her get hit, it was even HARDER, to see him show no remorse about it. Every human has, at some point in their lives, done _something_ they've regretted.  Not to this magnitude of course, but _something_.  

The "thing we regret" is one thing.  What happens next is more telling of the person's true character, their soul.   If Ray Rice had immediately reacted in such away that he showed, oh my god, what have I done to my future wife?  I might think there was hope for the guy.   His reaction after was, to me, even more evil than his _action_.  Again, good people can't imagine evil.  To me, I saw evil when I saw him have no feeling for what he had done, regardless of whatever might have transpired before, and however he might have felt somehow "justified" in losing his cool.   And it caught me by surprise, too.


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## laurac260 (Sep 10, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Sometimes I think that that domestic violence will never be fully eradicated, because violent tendencies will always exist in human nature, but right now I'm astounded at the number of young girls (who aren't intimately familiar with domestic violence) I see posting to Facebook who are blaming the victim in this instance.  "Why did she even get on the elevator with him?  Why did she marry him?  Why didn't she just leave?  Why is she blaming the media and not him?"  Of course the questions are (surprising? inappropriate? - not sure of the correct word here) no matter who asks them but with so many educational programs geared directly to young girls, their thinking process surprises me most of all.



I think everyone wants to believe that, *I* wouldn't put up with that.  *I* would leave.  There's *no way* that would happen to me.  

I've had two friends murdered by their ex boyfriends.  We were young too, in our early 20's.  Neither one of them "saw it coming".  And by the time they realized what was happening, it was too late.   My friend Linda stayed through years of abuse, she was convinced she had nothing to offer anyone else, and when she finally got up the courage to leave him, he hunted her down, stalked her, then finally killed her. 

He left her a sweetest day card on her car to tell her he was sorry for the altercation the other night (where he tried to drag her out of a public place, me and another friend stopped him, he hit me, I hit him back, cut his face with my ring in the process, he wiped his blood on her white car).  It was after that altercation that I realized he might actually BE psycho.  He apologized in the card, told her he had a "present for her."  His present was, he bought a gun.     I'll never forget our mutual friend calling me, sobbing hysterically.  He had gone to her home, she wasn't there, he went looking for her at work, her dad had followed, and her dad was running up to the storefront just in time to watch his daughter get killed.  Then the boyfriend killed himself.  It was a long time before I stopped blaming myself for that one.  Like somehow, *I* had caused it, if I hadn't hit him back, maybe she wouldn't have been killed… see what the mind does to you, even when you know the thought isn't rational?

 The second one, (actually more of a co-worker than a friend) well perhaps me telling her the story about Linda was what finally made her realize he ex truly WAS a stalker, and not in the "joking fashion" our other co-worker was talking about…  she tried to leave, tried to skip town… but he didn't let her.   I was watching the news one day, and the lead story was about this young girl, they had had a going away party for her (I no longer worked there), and when she left the party, he met her in the parking lot and killed her.  And there on the news was this sweet young face… the same girl I had warned to take his behavior seriously… I sure didn't want to be right.     Again, the thoughts going through your head, should I have said anything?  Should I have said more than I did?  Could I have helped her??? 

It's beyond the human mind to comprehend that people like that really do exist.  And I can tell you from experience, news stories just aren't enough.  As I said in my previous post…  
"good people can't imagine evil. It catches us by surprise, and always will."


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## rleigh (Sep 10, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> .................
> 
> It's beyond the human mind to comprehend that people like that really do exist.  And I can tell you from experience, news stories just aren't enough.  As I said in my previous post…
> "good people can't imagine evil. It catches us by surprise, and always will."




I'll never understand that, why people are shocked by it. What do they think abuse looks like? A shove and an oops followed by "I'm sorry"? No yelling, no owies?

I realize we've heard enough stats for our eyes to glaze over. But I get really irritated when there is "public outrage" and media obsession.

Because looking at history, it mostly is forgotten and history is repeated (crime committed, public outcry, lenient sentence, public outcry, killer let out and kills again, public outcry).... OR...the public outcry causes knee-jerk, emotional, illogical, unreasonable reactions.

And I should add I also get irritated at "public outrage / media obsession" because most of it is about something that happens all around us, everyday. Sometimes is gets attention, sometimes it doesn't. 

Whew that felt good.


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## laurac260 (Sep 10, 2014)

rleigh said:


> I'll never understand that, why people are shocked by it. What do they think abuse looks like? A shove and an oops followed by "I'm sorry"? No yelling, no owies?
> 
> I realize we've heard enough stats for our eyes to glaze over. But I get really irritated when there is "public outrage" and media obsession.
> 
> ...



People are shocked by it because it doesn't jive with their own way of thinking/operating.  No matter how mad you've ever been, you've never flattened someone with your punch.  No matter how hurt you've been by a jilted lover or a relationship breakup, you've never felt that "If I can't have him/her, no one will."  Your psyche doesn't work that way.  And, we hear the stories, but until you stare evil in the face, it's hard to comprehend that it truly exists. 

 I stood face to face with someone who had it in him to murder someone he loved.  He threw a punch at me that, had he connected in my face and not merely grazed my shoulder, would have put me to the ground as Ray Rice's girlfriend was.  I was foolish to punch back, but I didn't fully realize, even then, what I was dealing with.    Thank goodness people were there to grab him and throw him out of the establishment, because he came at me again with a vengeance .   Upon reflecting I realized he wasn't stable.  His reaction to us telling him to leave didn't match.  Still, I never thought he would KILL.  I suppose Linda knew, because she KNEW him.   But most of us still believe in the inherent GOOD in people.  That's my take on it anyway, for what it's worth.


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## Talent312 (Sep 10, 2014)

What bothers me about this is that, while the attention it brings to the issue of domestic violence has value, the media frenzy makes it seem like this incident is somehow unique or extraordinary, which is hardly the case.

In fact, there are thousands of similar incidents of domestic violence in our country everyday -- many of which never see the light of day, but enuff do that the courts are clogged with them.  The Ray Rice case should be placed in a larger context. The focus should not be on "What did the NFL know and when did they know it?" (paraphrasing Sen. Howard Baker), but what our society is doing to deal with the systemic problem.
.


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## laurac260 (Sep 10, 2014)

Talent312 said:


> What bothers me about this is that, while the attention it brings to the issue of domestic violence, the media frenzy about it, makes it seem like something unique or extraordinary. ... Hardly.
> 
> There are thousands of incidents of domestic violence in our county everyday, most of which never see the light of day, and but there are enuff that the courts are clogged with them.  The Ray Rice case needs to be placed in a larger context.
> 
> ...



I heard a talking head say it best this morning, "The NFL doesn't have a Ray Rice issue, they have a "domestic violence against women" issue.


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## Passepartout (Sep 10, 2014)

Well, mox-nix now that a law enforcement authority says he gave the tape to the NFL in April, and has a recording that acknowledges it, saying, "Yeah, it's bad." Goodell can join Rice in the unemployment line.

Jim


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## pedro47 (Sep 10, 2014)

Did the Atlantic City police department charge Ray Rice the night of the incident ?


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## DeniseM (Sep 10, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> Did the Atlantic City police department charge Ray Rice the night of the incident ?



Both he and his wife were arrested, the charges were dropped against her, his went to a grand jury - see post #29.


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## am1 (Sep 11, 2014)

Does anyone think that playing and replaying the video is disrespectful to the victim?  She may not be perfect or innocent but it cannot be fun for her watching that tape everywhere.


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## Lets Get Going (Sep 12, 2014)

am1 said:


> Does anyone think that playing and replaying the video is disrespectful to the victim?  She may not be perfect or innocent but it cannot be fun for her watching that tape everywhere.



Yes, I do!  I hate seeing it over and over and I'm sure it's horrible for her AND her family.  The media is hurting her every time they play the tape.  They certainly aren't thinking of the victim and her feelings and well-being.  They needs to stop, but they won't.  It's just like the old Don Henley song, Dirty Laundry....'people love it when you lose, they love dirty laundry'.

We get angry about the violence in movies and in TV shows and yet the media is right there ready to replay a violent act over and over just for ratings.


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## laurac260 (Sep 12, 2014)

am1 said:


> Does anyone think that playing and replaying the video is disrespectful to the victim?  She may not be perfect or innocent but it cannot be fun for her watching that tape everywhere.



I can honestly say I never thought of it that way.

And I feel a bit sheepish that I didn't.  

Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious.


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## geekette (Sep 12, 2014)

pedro47 said:


> This is a very sad story. Three or four months ago the now Mrs. R Rice could have die from  that blow to her head that night. Two, a real man would never hit or strike a female., unless that female was robbing him or physically doing  bodily harm to him. Third, a good young football player life and career could be over because of public opinions. Four, this type of physical abuse crime is on the rise in our country.



Third, No, his career could be over because he did something Very Wrong.


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## geekette (Sep 12, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> The NFL and the Police should take a huge hit on the handling of the case.  I mean seriously 2 games?! It should have been the whole season right off the bat.
> 
> As for the wife having a victim's mentality, I don't believe this is the case with this women because this would be her opportunity to leave him and take half his $25mil. She would've gotten a lot of sympathy and support if she had but she obviously isn't your normal woman in this situation who often times doesn't have anywhere to go and made a decision to stay for whatever reason.
> 
> It can't be for money and not likely fear, although that can't be ruled out,  so she stayed either because she truly loves him or she really felt in some way she contributed to the whole sad event.



You don't know.  Perhaps she would get dead faster trying to leave.  Perhaps she wants their kid to have a dad.  Perhaps she was abused by her dad and doesn't know that she is a worthwhile human that doesn't deserve to be beaten.

Curious how exactly you know what this woman's motivations are and that she doesn't have a victim's mentality?  Really, what do you know about her that the rest of us don't?


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## geekette (Sep 12, 2014)

Icc5 said:


> My wife and I question lots about this.  He shouldn't have ever touched her.  We also heard today that she spit in his face.  How can they ever have married?   Spit in his face, punch her out, wow, what was the honeymoon like?
> The NFL needs to council every player from the time they enter the league.  These are no longer adults but now untrained animals.  The last few years you have had a users, animal crualelty, drug dealers, drug users, murderers and who knows what else?   Examples for kids, I think not.  Maybe we will find they all have brain injuries?  I used to love the GAME of football, not anymore.



Guess you don't remember the druggie players from a few decades back (Dallas Cowboys were very bad boys).  This Is Not New.


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## geekette (Sep 12, 2014)

letsgosteelers said:


> Why did she marry him? c'mon folks, we all know the answer ... $$$


this is really offensive.  How many abused women do you know that are married to their abusers?   You think that there are women that will gladly take punches in exchange for Money?  

Did you consider that she may have been threatened over and over again, and the life of her child threatened, if she left him, if she didn't marry him?  

No woman I know would have a replica of groom's job on top of wedding cake.  I believe she is but a puppet in the Rice show.


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## TUGBrian (Sep 12, 2014)

While I dont disagree that the 2game suspension was a joke...blaming the NFL solely is a mistake.

every part of the rules and punishment for all NFL teams and players are agreed upon by the NFL players association.


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## ace2000 (Sep 12, 2014)

TUGBrian said:


> While I dont disagree that the 2game suspension was a joke...blaming the NFL solely is a mistake.



The reason people ARE blaming the NFL is because the 2 game suspension was a joke.  However, I *think* we're on the same page.  

For those demanding Goodell to step down, why?  I'm not sure I get that one.  He may have erred on the 2 game suspension but I feel Rice is being punished correctly now with the indefinite suspension.  So, IMO he missed on the first try but got it right the next time.

And then you get into the question of how much time should he finally be suspended for?


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## TUGBrian (Sep 12, 2014)

I thought folks were angry at him for claiming the NFL had never seen the video...when its coming out that they had indeed been sent a copy...and watched it.


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## ace2000 (Sep 12, 2014)

TUGBrian said:


> I thought folks were angry at him for claiming the NFL had never seen the video...when its coming out that they had indeed been sent a copy...and watched it.



Yes, that's right.  And nobody really knows who at the NFL got the tape or whether or not Goodell actually has watched it - in fact, he has denied having watched it.  Yet even without any facts, the lynch mob is foaming at the mouth calling for him to resign.


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## am1 (Sep 12, 2014)

Lifetime ban will not hold up. Others have done much worse and have gotten less.  It is just over compensating for the original punishment of 2 games.


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## ace2000 (Sep 12, 2014)

am1 said:


> Lifetime ban will not hold up. Others have done much worse and have gotten less.  It is just over compensating for the original punishment of 2 games.



It's actually an "indefinite" ban not a "lifetime" ban.  The problem is that he has been released from his team and when the suspension is actually lifted what team is going to want to take a chance on him?  He is not exactly in his prime anymore.  So, in that sense it could be lifetime.


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## Fern Modena (Sep 12, 2014)

No, the reason most people are calling for Goodell's ouster is not over whether or not he saw the video before TMZ showed a shortened version of it or not. What people are angry about is the slipshod investigation into the whole Rice incident. I don't know if they had knowledge and covered it up, or whether they decided that they didn't want to know any more than they did, and didn't investigate very deeply and thoroughly. And I think THAT is what people are upset about. Its like the Old Boys Club strikes again. You know, "_He said he was sorry_."

Fern


ace2000 said:


> Yes, that's right.  And nobody really knows who at the NFL got the tape or whether or not Goodell actually has watched it - in fact, he has denied having watched it.  Yet even without any facts, the lynch mob is foaming at the mouth calling for him to resign.


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## ace2000 (Sep 12, 2014)

Fern Modena said:


> No, the reason most people are calling for Goodell's ouster is not over whether or not he saw the video before TMZ showed a shortened version of it or not. What people are angry about is the slipshod investigation into the whole Rice incident. I don't know if they had knowledge and covered it up, or whether they decided that they didn't want to know any more than they did, and didn't investigate very deeply and thoroughly. And I think THAT is what people are upset about. Its like the Old Boys Club strikes again. You know, "_He said he was sorry_."
> 
> Fern



Help me out... besides the video, what other evidence is there that the investigation might be considered "slipshod"?  IMO that's it.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 12, 2014)

The sportstalk radio guys are ranting and raving (rightly, IMO) about all the various illegalities that NFL players are involved in, how many and which guys are true BAD GUYS in the societal/legal sense of the word, how so many of them manage to evade the usual legal system processes and punishments, and how the NFL culture surely enables them.  The percentage of NFL players involved as compared to those in other pro sports leagues (shown earlier in this thread) but especially as compared to society overall is astounding.

The radio guys say the effects of Ray Rice's scandal on the league will be the same as all the others - he'll be a poster child for a few weeks while at the same time they'll all be under a microscope, and some who might have gone under the radar absent this increased media attention will have to sit out a game or two while their names are prominent in the media.  But sooner rather than later the outcry will die down and it will be business as usual, especially as the season just started and there are diehard fans who couldn't care less about anything these guys do when they're not on the field for a game.  Then the whole vicious cycle will begin again the next time an NFL player is credibly reported to be a genuine bad guy.

It's despicable but I agree with the radio guys.


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## ace2000 (Sep 12, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> The sportstalk radio guys are ranting and raving (rightly, IMO) about all the various illegalities that NFL players are involved in, how many and which guys are true BAD GUYS in the societal/legal sense of the word, how so many of them manage to evade the usual legal system processes and punishments, and how the NFL culture surely enables them.  The percentage of NFL players involved as compared to those in other pro sports leagues (shown earlier in this thread) but especially as compared to society overall is astounding.
> 
> The radio guys say the effects of Ray Rice's scandal on the league will be the same as all the others - he'll be a poster child for a few weeks while at the same time they'll all be under a microscope, and some who might have gone under the radar absent this increased media attention will have to sit out a game or two while their names are prominent in the media.  But sooner rather than later the outcry will die down and it will be business as usual, especially as the season just started and there are diehard fans who couldn't care less about anything these guys do when they're not on the field for a game.  Then the whole vicious cycle will begin again the next time an NFL player is credibly reported to be a genuine bad guy.
> 
> It's despicable but I agree with the radio guys.



And I'll go along with everything you just mentioned.  So now you've got a commissioner (Goodell) who has been the toughest in NFL history as far as giving out suspensions and the length of his suspensions.  The players actually despise him because of this aspect.  Seriously, look into it if you don't believe me.  And now the short-attention crowd wants to get rid of him for making a mistake that he eventually corrected?  Sorry, it doesn't add up to me.  Until it's *proven* that he saw the video, I'm in favor of keeping him.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 12, 2014)

Something a little amusing related to my last post about the radio guys -

They just came back from a commercial break with this, "We're happy to report that no NFL players have been indicted for murder, domestic violence, child abuse or other violent charges in the last fifteen minutes.  Or perhaps to be more specific, the NFL front offices have not reported any such indictments in the last fifteen minutes.  No worries, things are good now in the NFL."


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## SueDonJ (Sep 12, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> And I'll go along with everything you just mentioned.  So now you've got a commissioner (Goodell) who has been the toughest in NFL history as far as giving out suspensions and the length of his suspensions.  The players actually despise him because of this aspect.  Seriously, look into it if you don't believe me.  And now the short-attention crowd wants to get rid of him for making a mistake that he eventually corrected?  Sorry, it doesn't add up to me.  Until it's *proven* that he saw the video, I'm in favor of keeping him.



I don't know what I think about Goodell, if he should be removed or not.  I agree with you that he's been a better disciplinarian (in society's eyes) than any other in his sport and in many of the other sports.  But sometimes the guy at the top has no choice but to take the fall for what happens below.  Just how it goes.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I think that the only thing which will make a difference in this country's professional sports culture is a country-wide boycott of every professional sports event for a period of one full year.  It's too late to begin 1/1/15 with season tickets already sold for this year, but a concentrated effort to make it happen 1/1-12/31/16 would make me very happy.  Even then they'd rake in some income because some ticket packages are multi-year, but it's a start.  Hit them all in their wallets because they all are responsible for the culture - it's the only thing that matters.  It'll never happen, though - most diehards won't let it.  (I'm a diehard baseball fan, not football, but would participate in an all-sports boycott.  They all have culpability.)


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## am1 (Sep 12, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Honestly, I'm at the point where I think that the only thing which will make a difference in this country's professional sports culture is a country-wide boycott of every professional sports event for a period of one full year.  It's too late to begin 1/1/15 with season tickets already sold for this year, but a concentrated effort to make it happen 1/1-12/31/16 would make me very happy.  Even then they'd rake in some income because some ticket packages are multi-year, but it's a start.  Hit them all in their wallets because they all are responsible for the culture - it's the only thing that matters.  It'll never happen, though - most diehards won't let it.  (I'm a diehard baseball fan, not football, but would participate in an all-sports boycott.  They all have culpability.)



And all the people that would lose their jobs?

Lets start my removing pro sports references from our TUG profiles and photos?

Or we could just not support the criminals and cheaters.


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## Fern Modena (Sep 12, 2014)

I don't know, I wasn't there. Did they ever interview the hotel security or whoever that was at the elevator when the doors opened? Or anybody else there?

Why are you defending him? _:::sigh:::_

Fern



ace2000 said:


> Help me out... besides the video, what other evidence is there that the investigation might be considered "slipshod"?  IMO that's it.


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## ace2000 (Sep 13, 2014)

Fern Modena said:


> I don't know, I wasn't there. Did they ever interview the hotel security or whoever that was at the elevator when the doors opened? Or anybody else there?
> 
> Why are you defending him? _:::sigh:::_
> 
> Fern



If you look back at my posts, you can see that I'm just trying to understand why many are calling for Goodell to step down as NFL commissioner.  There have been some on this thread that have called for the same.  You mentioned that the investigation was "slipshod" in your post so I asked you why.  

Goodell has a reputation for being the toughest commissioner in sports as far as disciplining the players.  I don't see how he is the problem here and I think it took him two tries but he did finally get it right in the end.  Just my opinion.


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## SMHarman (Sep 13, 2014)

Fern Modena said:


> I don't know, I wasn't there. Did they ever interview the hotel security or whoever that was at the elevator when the doors opened? Or anybody else there?
> 
> Why are you defending him? _:::sigh:::_
> 
> Fern


We'll the hotel handed oover the outside the elevator footage so you have to say yes to the interview question. 

Now why only half the footage discovered. Or was half suppressed?  We will never know.


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## ace2000 (Sep 13, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Honestly, I'm at the point where I think that the only thing which will make a difference in this country's professional sports culture is a country-wide boycott of every professional sports event for a period of one full year.



I thought more about your post and there is a lot of truth about that sports "culture" and the sense of being "above the rules" may be in play here in this matter.  Football could be the worst sport, though basketball may not be far behind.  The kids grow up as rock stars.  Who knows what they got away with during their younger days just because they carried the local high school football team to the state championship.  Most are probably just fine, but many players probably just let it all go to their heads and feel they can do anything they want.  It may not even be a conscious thing with them.


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## Clemson Fan (Sep 13, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Honestly, I'm at the point where I think that the only thing which will make a difference in this country's professional sports culture is a country-wide boycott of every professional sports event for a period of one full year.  It's too late to begin 1/1/15 with season tickets already sold for this year, but a concentrated effort to make it happen 1/1-12/31/16 would make me very happy.  Even then they'd rake in some income because some ticket packages are multi-year, but it's a start.  Hit them all in their wallets because they all are responsible for the culture - it's the only thing that matters.  It'll never happen, though - most diehards won't let it.  (I'm a diehard baseball fan, not football, but would participate in an all-sports boycott.  They all have culpability.)



You should carry your boycott out to all adult men between the ages of 20-35 because statistically that peer group in the general population are involved in more crimes then professional athletes.

http://deadspin.com/what-do-arrests-data-really-say-about-nfl-players-and-c-733301399

There are 2.5 times as many NFL players as MLB players and 5 times as many compared to NBA players.  So statistically there are naturally going to be more NFL players arrested.

Professional athletes are very high profile.  Anything they do wrong is going to be highly publicized.  Meanwhile if Joe Shmo did the same thing in that casino elevator nobody in the media would care.

These are societal issues and not in any way just limited to professional athletes.


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## SMHarman (Sep 13, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> Honestly, I'm at the point where I think that the only thing which will make a difference in this country's professional sports culture is a country-wide boycott of every professional sports event for a period of one full year.


But your basic cable bill write pro sports $5-15 a month also.


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## MULTIZ321 (Sep 14, 2014)

Watch: James Brown Delivers a Message on Domestic Violence to Football Fans - by Jonathan Cohn/ Domestic Violence/ newrepublic.com

"Last night the Baltimore Ravens played a football game. It was the Thursday night game, which meant CBS Sports was televising it nationally, and the league had lined up Rihanna to perform. It had all the makings of a spectacle that would be cringe-inducing at best and outrage-producing at worst.

It turned out to be neither. CBS producers had the good sense to dispense with the usual pregame festivities and analysis, replacing them with hard news analysis—including CBS News correspondents—about the Ray Rice story. As Matt Wilstein at Mediaite put it, the broadcast “felt more like 60 Minutes than Thursday Night Football.” 

But the best part—and, ultimately, the most important part—came at the end. That’s when James Brown, the well-known anchor for CBS Sports, offered his own commentary, directly into the camera: ..."


Richard


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## geekette (Sep 15, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Watch: James Brown Delivers a Message on Domestic Violence to Football Fans - by Jonathan Cohn/ Domestic Violence/ newrepublic.com
> 
> "Last night the Baltimore Ravens played a football game. It was the Thursday night game, which meant CBS Sports was televising it nationally, and the league had lined up Rihanna to perform. It had all the makings of a spectacle that would be cringe-inducing at best and outrage-producing at worst.
> 
> ...



Oh yes, I like JB and I like to think he did some good.

Victim-blaming has to stop, the folks that do the violence are the ones that need to change.  This starts with the young men in high school getting away with crap because they are sports heroes or their dad is important in their town, moves on thru the college years where the money impacts are larger and on into the pros where it's big money.  

Rules apply to all of us, there is no excuse for bad behavior.  No one is that special.  

Hard to believe that Michael Vick's animal abuse was seen as worse than beating up significant-other Humans that happen to be female.


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## LannyPC (Aug 11, 2015)

*Different League, but...*

I know Ray Rice is not a Canadian Football League (CFL) player but it's nice to see that another league is recognizing the problem and taking drastic measures:

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl-launches-mandatory-training-on-domestic-violence-1.341809

How much effect this new league policy will have remains to be seen but hopefully this is a step in the right direction.


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