# what does Four Seasons have to offer



## benjaminb13

Need some insight on fourSeasons from experienced Tuggers
I would love to buy in Aviara  but some real concerns arise
How can they compete against the other major Hotel Chains?
The resorts look beautiful-but.....
MFs are 2x more than Hilton or Hyatt
are there only 2 resorts- troon/Aviara available for internal trade? very little flexibility
Am I missing something?


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## stevens397

Check out their website.  There are other locations.  And if you buy from a registered resale agent, you can retain the trade benefits.

We stayed on a promo package at Troon - the most low pressure sales meeting we ever had - here are the prices, any questions?!

That said, don't look to Four Seasons for good deals but rather for a great experience.  In the end, we decided to buy Westin Kierland for a number of reasons.  But you do get daily housekeeping and other perks at Four Seasons, besides the fact that hey, it IS the Four Seasons!


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## steve1000

Four Seasons is a luxury buy. IMO it is more of a niche holding. I own with several of the major hotel timeshare companies including Starwood, Hyatt and Marriott. For most people I would recommend these programs over Four Seasons - especially for someone who is relatively new to timesharing - because they offer more resorts in their programs, have better internal exchange opportunities (Marriott's is in development), and have much lower maintenance costs. I have some wonderful timeshares and love them all - but my favorite one of all of them to use is the Four Seasons. It is simply the most luxurious. In part its the little things like not having to get up early to save lounges at the pool (there's always plenty of availability) and attentive pool valets who bring complimentary fresh fruit or keep your ice water glass filled up) that set it apart. The MFs are high because they provide daily maid service so the unit is always clean and fresh. Management has done a very good job of keeping the MFs steady (especially compared to Starwood whose MFs seem to routinely increase by double digit percentages each year). Because the Four Seasons MFs are so high it is not worthwhile to own it as a "trader". However, for someone who loves visiting the San Diego area or Scottsdale area regularly (especially during peak season when these units are not available through II), and who appreciates the luxury and is not troubled by the high MFs - a Four Seasons resale purchase can make good sense.


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## Steve

The Four Seasons resorts are gorgeous and the service is superb.  But, as you have mentioned, there are really only two locations in the internal trade program...Aviara and Scottsdale.  These are also the only two resorts that exchange with II.

Unfortunately, the Jackson Hole resort is almost impossible to get via internal exchange and Four Seasons has yet to come up with a viable internal exchange system for any of their other new locations.  There was a temporary exchange opportunity for their new resort in the Bahamas, but that is/was very short term.  Despite what you read about the "internal exchange benefits" if you buy from an authorized reseller, these so-called "benefits" don't really exist except between the Aviara and Scottsdale resorts.  It's a shame because the Four Seasons resorts are outstanding properties, but their lack of a viable exchange system is serious weakness.

From my conversations with the Four Seasons sales staff, they are not happy with their weekly timeshare product and are not going to sell future resorts this way.  They are moving to fractionals instead.  They are also not happy with II and are not enthusiastic about exhanging in general...even within the Four Seasons system.  I was told very bluntly that I should buy where I want to go within the Four Seasons system and that I should NOT count on being able to exchange into other Four Seasons locations.  

The contrast between this approach and the approach of Marriott and the other chains is amazing.  Everyone touts the ability to exchange into other resorts in the same family as a prime benefit...with the exception of Four Seasons.  At Four Seasons, they tell you to not count on being able to exchange anywhere within their own system except for Aviara and Scottsdale.  They are very up front about this.  

In summary, the Four Seasons resorts are top notch.  These resorts really should only be purchased for use in Aviara or Scottsdale.  II gives great trade power...but with the high maintenance fees...not many II exchanges make sense.  There are bargains to be had on the resale market.  It's a great product if...and only if...you want to use the two resorts mentioned above.  EVERY other hotel based timeshare system is more flexible when it comes to exchanging.

Steve


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## Bill4728

As the three "Steves" have said the Four Seasons are great but their trading system is poor. 

But just to tell you how nice they are. The 2 bedroom units are huge. Each bedroom is a great master suite of rooms. The lock off is a great unit all by itself. The Four Seasons is much nicer than any of the HGVC, Hyatt and Marriotts we've stayed in. Not that they weren't nice but the 4 seasons blew them away.

PS I'm not a owner, I'm just too cheap.


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## taffy19

Steve said:


> From my conversations with the Four Seasons sales staff, they are not happy with their weekly timeshare product and are not going to sell future resorts this way.  They are moving to fractionals instead.  They are also not happy with II and are not enthusiastic about exhanging in general...even within the Four Seasons system.  I was told very bluntly that I should buy where I want to go within the Four Seasons system and that I should NOT count on being able to exchange into other Four Seasons locations.
> 
> The contrast between this approach and the approach of Marriott and the other chains is amazing.  Everyone touts the ability to exchange into other resorts in the same family as a prime benefit...with the exception of Four Seasons.  At Four Seasons, they tell you to not count on being able to exchange anywhere within their own system except for Aviara and Scottsdale.  They are very up front about this.
> 
> In summary, the Four Seasons resorts are top notch.  These resorts really should only be purchased for use in Aviara or Scottsdale.  II gives great trade power...but with the high maintenance fees...not many II exchanges make sense.  There are bargains to be had on the resale market.  It's a great product if...and only if...you want to use the two resorts mentioned above.  EVERY other hotel based timeshare system is more flexible when it comes to exchanging.
> 
> Steve


I went on a quick sales tour alone and he told me too that they are going to discontinue II and have other plans (fractionals).  They only have a very few units left here.  He gave me the brochure and prices after asking for it several times.  There was no sales pressure at all but he gave me his card if we wanted to talk to him again.  I read more about it on the Internet, if you Google.  

It is true that most people here come every year as I talked to several couples around the pool.  They were mainly from northern CA and one couple must have made an exchange because they came from Arizona.

I was so lucky to have had the chance of staying here for several nights alone because of a generous TUGger or TS4Mr here.  It was free plus she left lots of goodies too.     The service is excellent and the hotel very nice and the grounds absolutely beautiful as well as the pools.  Very peaceful here but a little further away from the ocean.  There is a nice lagoon where you can walk and the golf course too.  Again, a beautiful area in southern CA and close to San Diego.


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## vineyarder

> The contrast between this approach and the approach of Marriott and the other chains is amazing. Everyone touts the ability to exchange into other resorts in the same family as a prime benefit...with the exception of Four Seasons. At Four Seasons, they tell you to not count on being able to exchange anywhere within their own system except for Aviara and Scottsdale. They are very up front about this.



They may be upfront about this now, but when I bought at Aviara back when it first opened, they were telling people that they would open 12 more resorts w/i the next 3 years, great internal exchanges, hotel voucher exchange, II etc.   I've been shocked at how poorly they treated their owners, especially after the great experiences I've had with Marriott...


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## BocaBum99

I've stayed at both Troon and Aviara.  Very nice, but I won't be going back.  They used to allow pets at the resorts and so my entire families allergies made it very unpleasant.


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## Steve

BocaBum99 said:


> I've stayed at both Troon and Aviara.  Very nice, but I won't be going back.  They used to allow pets at the resorts and so my entire families allergies made it very unpleasant.



Both resorts still allow owners to bring their pets.  Aviara no longer allows II exchangers to bring their pets, but Troon still does.

Personally, I'm strongly in favor of the resorts allowing pets.  However, I do think that they should have some hypo-allergenic villas available for those with allergies.

Steve


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## GregGH

benjaminb13 said:


> Need some insight on fourSeasons from experienced Tuggers
> I would love to buy in Aviara ...... MFs are 2x more than Hilton or Hyatt
> .......... Am I missing something?



I can see vineyarder's comments - the 'plan' just hasn't worked - because Four Seasons has a product that is SO GOOD -- people with tons of money will buy the WHOLE UNIT ( or 1/4 shares ) - and it is less hassle for the company. Walk thru Nevis location when you vacation at St Kitts ,  to see.  ( PS - Vineyarder - great comments you posted in non-traditional forum - thanks )

So - when TUG'ers say -- 'but the MF's are too hi'  -- it reinforces Four Seasons to stay hi end.  Once you accept the value for $2000 MF's you come to appreciate that extra touch that Four Seasons staff give as routine.  My question is - how do they train staff to be that good?  I have only stayed there a couple of times perviously as renters (finally got my own, now) and we have really come to appreciate the under promise and over-perform attitude.  However - when you stay at a Marriott et al - you are spoiled by your experiences at Four Seasons and you get that empty feeling ( so don't say your were not warned 

When you read the resort reviews posted ( open to members ) - make a note of how often they point out greasy cabinets in the kitchen or similar minimal housekeeping for various locations - that is what $1000 gets you for your MF's.

We need to compare Four Seasons to Ritz Carlton fractionals - then you will see the Aviara is SUCH A GOOD DEAL ( see Jupiter in Fla. link below )

http://www.timesharesonly.com/resort_details/resorts/Ritz-Carlton+Jupiter-A6UJ9A002MZ2.html

Regards
Greg

pps - customer service story #23 - taking the shuttle down to the golf club with wife - we are chatting and she mentions how she needs to go buy some apples when I come back - she then gets out and walks back up the hill for exercise - at which point the van drive stops and offers her  an apple -- the van drive stopped at the hotel and picked one up for her as a courtesy - that is just one of several similar stories that blows me away about their training and attention to detail.


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## alwysonvac

vineyarder said:


> They may be upfront about this now, but when I bought at Aviara back when it first opened, they were telling people that they would open 12 more resorts w/i the next 3 years, great internal exchanges, hotel voucher exchange, II etc.   I've been shocked at how poorly they treated their owners, especially after the great experiences I've had with Marriott...



We love FS Aviara however we’re greatly disappointed with the FS Residence Club.

The Creative Leisure partnership is gone. You could use cash and/or Accommodation Credits for their travel packages.

As of 2007, Premium Selections is no longer offered. This was an exclusive selection of room packages from Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, created just for Residence Club owners. You could use cash and/or Accommodation Credits for Premiere Selections stays.

Back in earlier 2005, FSRC mailed out a quarterly newsletter stating


> _"As we ring in the New Year, we would like to start updating you on a more regular basis to keep you informed of the latest development activity"
> 
> "All Residence Club Projects will be part of the Residence Club exchange program. We have been working on a number of changes to the exchange program to enhance its usefulness to owners. Our plan is to introduce these enhancements in 2005. Although the details of a revised exchange program are still being finalized, please rest assured that our ultimate goal is to create more exchange opportunities for our owners. We will also continue to seek strategic relationships with independent luxury private residence clubs to help augment the exchange progam"
> 
> "We know our current owners are understandably excited about the potential exchange opportunity to exchange....Please keep in mind, however that in order for there to be exchange opportunities there have to be owners in.... who wish to exchange to other Residence Club locations....Once sales commence ....and owners begin to occupy their villas, we expect that we would begin taking exchange requests.....As a reminder, new owners tend to book their home project use week during their first year ownership therefore exchange opportunities during 2005 may be limited"_


As a FSRC owners, we don’t feel more informed on the latest development activity. 
No changes or enhancements were introduced to the FSRC exchange program and no status has been given on this since the newsletter statement in earlier 2005.
No new “strategic relationships” have been announced beyond the affiliation with Storied Places, a division of Intrawest that was announced in late 2004 and began in January 2005. No status has been given on this since the newsletter statement in earlier 2005.

OTHER FSRC CONS
- No active ROFR to control resale prices.
- It’s cheaper to use another timeshare to trade into Aviara rather than the Owner Rental rates. Why should owners pay more for an extra week than non-owners?


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## GregGH

alwysonvac said:


> We love FS Aviara however we’re greatly disappointed with the FS Residence Club.
> ...snip .....OTHER FSRC CONS
> - No active ROFR to control resale prices.
> - It’s cheaper to use another timeshare to trade into Aviara rather than the Owner Rental rates. Why should owners pay more for an extra week than non-owners?



Hello Alwysonvac

I have not been an owner long enough to know the history -- how has the resale price been over the years?  If new are going for $29 gold from developer - might the 15k not be a fair resale price?  The resort is mature - so most sales now will be resale - is this not what is normal?

Your comment about it is cheaper to trade - yep- true -- but from the comments on reviews posted by traders - it seemed they had a hard time trading into?  There is always someone looking for the ultimate cheap week  and wish for that perfect resort to trade into - but how much grief and uncertainty do you like to deal with?   I have NEVER tried to trade into Aviara - just how hard is it to get?? The ease of just being an owner - counts from some things, doesn't it?.  

Regards
Greg


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## LisaH

It's actually pretty easy to trade into Four Seasons during off-peak period, especially within the 60 days window. I saw them on-line quite often, but with two teenage kids at schools, we have yet to take advantage of it...


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## Steve

GregGH said:


> If new are going for $29 gold from developer - might the 15k not be a fair resale price?  The resort is mature - so most sales now will be resale - is this not what is normal?



$15,000 is really too much to pay for an annual gold week at Four Seasons Aviara.  If you are patient, you can get one for much less.  An eBay auction just ended a couple of days ago at $10,001 for an Aviara gold week.  It didn't meet the reserve...but it's interesting to note that no one was willing to bid higher than that.  Notwithstanding the exceptional quality of the resorts, the value of Four Seasons weeks on the resale market continues to drop.  Several reasons for this include:

1)  The lack of an efficient internal exchange system (or any functioning internal exchange system outside of Troon and Aviara). 

2)  High maintenance fees.

3)  The abandonment of the weekly timeshare business model by the Four Seasons corporation.  

Given these factors...in addition to the decline in resale prices generally in the timeshare resale market...I think that it is not safe to assume that Four Seasons prices have hit bottom and will stay as they are.  I think they are still declining.  I have some interest in purchasing a Four Seasons week, but not for $15,000.  I wouldn't pay more than $10,000.

As Lisa states, it is relatively easy to exchange into Four Seasons Aviara during the gold season if you have a high quality week to offer in exchange.  

Steve


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## GregGH

Steve said:


> ...... Notwithstanding the exceptional quality of the resorts, the value of Four Seasons weeks on the resale market continues to drop.  Several reasons for this include:
> 1)  The lack of an efficient internal exchange system (or any functioning internal exchange system outside of Troon and Aviara).
> 2)  High maintenance fees.
> 3)  The abandonment of the weekly timeshare business model by the Four Seasons corporation.
> Given these factors...in addition to the decline in resale prices generally in the timeshare resale market...I think that it is not safe to assume that Four Seasons prices have hit bottom and will stay as they are.  I think they are still declining.  I have some interest in purchasing a Four Seasons week, but not for $15,000.  I wouldn't pay more than $10,000.
> ..... Steve



Hello Steve et al

I had some time --so I grabbed the 2005-2006 & ytd 2007 tax data from San Diego tax web page ( do they only show 2 years? or is this when the data first started to appear ?? ) - I have never uploaded an attachment - so here goes -- it is a .png of the excel chart - and yes - it does show a band of $10k sales - but with this data - it is hard to tell if sale was EOY or EY - clearly anything below 10k must be EOY.  This data is real handy - too bad other states do not do this.  Would be neat if others could do same for NCV and Highlands, etc. etc.

How do you justify some other calif TS's with their values????

I have 540 entries and I cutoff some very large values to keep the chart semi-readable  ...these for example show - multiple week in platinum one might expect...
$499,900 
$367,800 
$330,000 
$304,000 
$269,000 

Enjoy

Regards
Greg H


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## ral

Excellent discussion on Four Seasons Residence Clubs! I agree that their properties are stunning, but they have overwhelming problems dealing with trading within the few properties they manage. They can't seem to get it together, or even agree internally, on how to provide their owners with a "Four Seasons" experience with regard to internal trading. The original growth plan from years past has long since gone down the drain and nobody seems to know what route, if any, Four Seasons Residence Clubs will be taking. Salespeople, that is, those who are still around, refer to an "exciting, new" policy coming into effect "soon" with regard to the Residence Clubs. How long are they expecting owners to believe that there is any truth to this information when no change continues on a regular basis? For the time being, ownership should be considered only with the expectation of use at the purchased property unless trading through Interval International. On a positive note, screens for patio doors (something that should have been part of the original building design) and plasma TVs are forthcoming at Aviara; of course, these come as a result of a slight increase in the maintenance fees (already one of the highest in the industry) for the next few years. What a shame that Four Seasons Hotels, colossus of the upscale, luxury hotel concept, is the only hotel/timeshare managing group that has not been successful in providing its owners with a growing, easily accessable timeshare (or, if you prefer, residence club) experience.


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## alwysonvac

> how has the resale price been over the years?



It’s been declining. I’ve never seen a EY gold week for $10,000 but this thread talks about it - www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39840


Here’s what I found on the internet archive for www.beach-town.com (a site that is no longer available)  - http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.beach-town.com

1/28/2000
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $31,600. *Asking $20,900*.
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $30,900*. Price at the resort is $44,100 ... SAVE $13,200!

1/11/2001  &  1/18/2002
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $30,900. *Asking $21,900.*

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $32,900*. Price at the resort is $42,900 ... SAVE $10,000!

1/22/2003
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $32,000+. *Asking $17,900 or best offer*.

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $26,900*. Price at the resort is $49,000 ... SAVE $22,100!

1/6/2004
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $34,000+. *Asking $16,000 or best offer*.

"GOLD" season, *every "odd" year*, Thanksgiving week reservation for 2003.... *Asking just $9,990*

"GOLD" season, *every "even" year*. *Asking just $9,990*
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout" (sold)

Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $26,900*. Price at the resort is $53,000 ... SAVE $26,100!

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $27,900*. Price at the resort is $53,000 ... SAVE $25,100!

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout" (in escrow)
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $27,900*. Price at the resort is $53,000 ... SAVE $25,100!

2/3/2005
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $32,000+. *Asking $14,990 or best offer*.

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
This is a "GOLD" season, *EOY (even years) just $7,500*.

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week *asking just $25,000 or best offer*. Price at the resort is $65,000 ... SAVE Almost $40,000! 

2/4/2006
2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $32,000+. *Asking $14,900 or best offer*. Motivated Seller! (SOLD)

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
II "5-STAR" Resort. This is a "GOLD" season, every year week. Possibly the finest timeshare resort to be found anywhere! Current price at the resort is $32,000+. *Asking $14,900 or best offer*. Two (2) available at this price. Seller willing to hear offers. (IN ESCROW) 

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
This is a "GOLD" season, *EOY (even years) just $7,900 or best offer*. (comes with 1 "banked" week). (SOLD)

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lockout"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week* asking just $24,500 or best offer *and comes with excellent Summer reservation for 2005. Current price at the resort is $52,000 + per week.. (SOLD)

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8) with "lock-off"
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season, every year week. Just Listed! *Asking $24,900*. Motivated Seller. (IN ESCROW) 

*1BR/2BA* (1200+ sq ft)
Hard to find "PLATINUM" season week(s).  2 week package. August '05 back-to-back reservations. Buy one or both. *Asking $17,900 per week*. Make an offer for both!. (IN ESCROW) .

*1BR/2BA *(1200+ sq ft)
"PLATINUM" season, yearly use.   *Asking just $15,900*! 

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8, with "lock-off" feature)
"PLATINUM" season, annual use. New Listing. *Asking just $24,500*. (2 available)

2BR / 3BA (Sleeps 8, with "lock-off" feature)
"GOLD" season, annual use. New Listings. *Asking just $14,500*. (3 available)


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## alwysonvac

> I have NEVER tried to trade into Aviara - just how hard is it to get?? The ease of just being an owner - counts from some things, doesn't it?.



Yes, the ease of being an owner allows you to choose your week.

However I’ve seen a lot of FS Aviara gold weeks on various sightings boards. Take a look at the Sightings/Distressed forum here on TUG (just do a search on Aviara).  As long as an exchanger is flexible they can exchange into Aviara basically in January, February, March, May, and late September thru mid December. Two bedrooms may be harder but they are available. Most often you will see the two bedroom split into two separate deposits for the same week. Holiday periods such as Spring Break, Thanksgiving week and the last two weeks of December seem to be the most difficult but I’ve seen last minute deposits for them too. 

According to FS Owner Services they do not deposit summer Platinum weeks


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## Steve

An auction for a two bedroom annual gold week at Aviara just ended on eBay with a high bid of only $7100.  It did not meet the reserve.

Steve


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## Sir Newf

Steve- correction to your post, it was EOY (it was listed at the top, but from the body of the ad- you'd think it was annual)...I was watching it closely, (not sure if I want FS or Hyatt).....best, Anna


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## stevens397

Question-

I can understand the upset about the failure of FS to build more timeshares that can be traded into.  I'm curious to know how hard it is for owners of either resort to trade into the other one?  Can a Platinum at Scottsdale snag a summer week in Aviara?


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## Steve

Sir Newf said:


> Steve- correction to your post, it was EOY (it was listed at the top, but from the body of the ad- you'd think it was annual)...I was watching it closely, (not sure if I want FS or Hyatt).....best, Anna



Anna,

You are correct...my mistake.  I have seen EOY gold weeks successfully sell for between $6000 and $7000.  So this wasn't that great of a deal.

Steve


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## steve1000

stevens397 said:


> Question-
> 
> I can understand the upset about the failure of FS to build more timeshares that can be traded into.  I'm curious to know how hard it is for owners of either resort to trade into the other one?  Can a Platinum at Scottsdale snag a summer week in Aviara?



If you are exchanging into the other resort I believe you have to wait until the 8 month mark - whereas platinum owners can book at the 12 month mark at their home resort - so the most popular platinum weeks will generally be gone at the 8 month mark. You may be able to get a less popular platinum week. Thus, a platinum Aviara owner probably could not get a March/April Troon week and a platinum Troon owner would be unlikely to get a July/August Aviara week.


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## Ekaaj

*Four Seasons service...*



GregGH said:


> Once you accept the value for $2000 MF's you come to appreciate that extra touch that Four Seasons staff give as routine.  *My question is - how do they train staff to be that good?*  I have only stayed there a couple of times perviously as renters (finally got my own, now) and we have really come to appreciate the under promise and over-perform attitude.
> 
> pps - customer service story #23 - taking the shuttle down to the golf club with wife - we are chatting and she mentions how she needs to go buy some apples when I come back - she then gets out and walks back up the hill for exercise - at which point the van drive stops and offers her  an apple -- the van drive stopped at the hotel and picked one up for her as a courtesy - that is just one of several similar stories that blows me away about their training and attention to detail.




Hi all,

I am new to these boards, and just started posting.  My husband and I are mostly interested in Starwood, but I thought I'd check out what people think of Four Seasons vacation club/timeshare as well.  I used to work at the Four Seasons Scottsdale Resort (not the residence club, but the resort) when it opened in 1999/2000, and I remember the timeshare sales staff being quite excited about the properties they were selling.  I was curious to see if the product is still living up to the hype - and apparently the quality certainly does!  I don't understand why they don't make trading easier, though.

And I know this is possibly a bit off topic for this board, but...

To answer GregGH's question re: "How do they train the staff to be that good?" - the answer is just that - extensive training.  I had been in the hospitality industy for more than 10 years when I started working at Four Seasons, and they still put all of us through 2 months of training before the resort ever opened.  FS expects a much higher service level than almost any other resort/hotel group, and they make it clear to the staff that if you don't intend to provide that level, then find somewhere else to work.  The nice thing is, they usually start off with hiring the best staff they can find in the first place; people who are serious about what they do, and enjoy it.  

They also treat their employees with a huge amount of respect, give them great perks and benefits, and that translates to better service for the guests. The only reason I left FS was to switch careers completely, otherwise I might still be with the company.  Most employees are like that; in it for the long term to become management, head servers/chefs/sommeliers, and therefore their "base" staff is high quality - they don't have to keep re-training "newbies".

In regard to Greg's service story about the apple - that pretty much sums up what they want their employees to do.  EX: If a guest comes into the restaurant two days in a row and orders the same drink right away, by the third day you should have his drink waiting for him.  They also keep records of their guests' preferences, so they know if you prefer a foam pillow to feather pillows, or you drink only diet coke in your mini-fridge, and it should be ready for you when you arrive in your room.

I am glad to hear that the vacation owners enjoy the same kind of service - I had also wondered if they had the same experience as the resort guests.  If it were easier to trade into other properties, it might be tempting to buy FS.


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## zentraveler

I know this is an old thread, but as a longtime original purchase FS Aviara gold week owner (1998), I was thrilled to find this and wish I had found it -- and the whole TUG world!--years ago. 

We were among the early buyers who were promised an abundance of flexible trading locations, easy ability to split units into two weeks, week long exchanges with hotels etc. etc. In fact, I talked my not-even-yet-husband into purchasing this based on the integrity of the Four Seasons. Many of the things we were promised were particularly important to us because, although we love the Four Seasons, we never intended to use our time at Aviara. We have family there and can easily and more conveniently stay with them. We are avid travelers and international travelers, and always intended to trade it.

This post has filled in  answers to the questions we have asked Owners Servces over the years as we have been a bit incredulous about how this has played out. Overall we have not felt completely burned because we love their properties and have gotten some nice hotel exchanges by being careful. (We stayed for 5 nights at the George V in Paris the year after 9/11 for one year's MF.) But we are very disappointed in the Four Seasons for the "bait and switch" and are now trying to catch up by learning how to make the most effective use of our time there with trades or rentals (an option I did not know existed until I started reading this BBS yesterday!). I am sure there are some easy ways to do this, but I feel like I am going to need a half time secretary to manage the details of trading two weeks! Hopefully it ain't so


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## alwysonvac

zentraveler said:


> I know this is an old thread, but as a longtime original purchase FS Aviara gold week owner (1998), I was thrilled to find this and wish I had found it -- and the whole TUG world!--years ago.
> 
> We were among the early buyers who were promised an abundance of flexible trading locations, easy ability to split units into two weeks, week long exchanges with hotels etc. etc. In fact, I talked my not-even-yet-husband into purchasing this based on the integrity of the Four Seasons. Many of the things we were promised were particularly important to us because, although we love the Four Seasons, we never intended to use our time at Aviara. We have family there and can easily and more conveniently stay with them. We are avid travelers and international travelers, and always intended to trade it.
> 
> This post has filled in  answers to the questions we have asked Owners Servces over the years as we have been a bit incredulous about how this has played out. Overall we have not felt completely burned because we love their properties and have gotten some nice hotel exchanges by being careful. (We stayed for 5 nights at the George V in Paris the year after 9/11 for one year's MF.) But we are very disappointed in the Four Seasons for the "bait and switch" and are now trying to catch up by learning how to make the most effective use of our time there with trades or rentals (an option I did not know existed until I started reading this BBS yesterday!). I am sure there are some easy ways to do this, but I feel like I am going to need a half time secretary to manage the details of trading two weeks! Hopefully it ain't so




Sadly I too bought Four Seasons based on their high standard and commitment to customer service. I'm also shocked and greatly disappointed how this played out compared to the other hotel based timeshare systems.

Most Interval International exchanges will be a trade down. Most timeshares are not at the same quality, service and/or maintenance level of Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara. 

You can rent on your own or use a broker. One of the Four Seasons Residence Club preferred broker’s TRIWEST does a lot of rentals. I suspect that they are renting more for Four Seasons than for owners. In most cases, I would be better off renting Gold weeks from TRIWEST than owning a Gold week at Four Seasons Aviara. 
http://www.triwest-timeshare.com/resort/info/92009FO  (currently has 112 rental listing their website). TRIWEST also has listings on myresortnetwork.com and redweek.com

In 2008, I asked Owner Services about the Four Seasons Residence Club (FSRC) exchanges that were made in 2007. 
Here’s what I was told regarding the number of exchanges made in 2007.
  8 for Mexico (FSRC)
95 for Great Exuma (FSRC)
22 for Jackson Hole (FSRC)
37 for New York (Phillips Club)
 3 for Lake Tahoe (Storied Places)
 4 for Whistler (Storied Places)
 3 for Sandestin (Storied Places)


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## zentraveler

From what I understand, the lottery for this year for Punta Mita had about a 10% success rate. Something like 2000 owners put in for the lottery and 175 were granted.

Would be really interested in what others have thought of the non-FS direct exchanges, i.e. Storied Places, Phillips Club etc.


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## GregGH

zentraveler said:


> From what I understand, the lottery for this year for Punta Mita had about a 10% success rate. Something like 2000 owners put in for the lottery and 175 were granted.
> 
> Would be really interested in what others have thought of the non-FS direct exchanges, i.e. Storied Places, Phillips Club etc.



Too bad there are NOT more members on TUG from Storied Places & Phillips Club --I think the lack of trades is based upon the EXACT MATCH issue ( where you GET a week and then see if someone wanted THAT SAME week ).  The common sense way is to meet someone from SP or PC and agree the weeks each party wants ( like here at TUG)  --then book and swap --the success ratio  would go way up - it become a win-win instead of a poor ratio we have.

So --where are the members of Storied Places & Phillips Club -- have we missed a fractional message board somewhere like there is for Destination Clubs ??

Greg


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## zentraveler

GregGH said:


> Too bad there are NOT more members on TUG from Storied Places & Phillips Club --I think the lack of trades is based upon the EXACT MATCH issue ( where you GET a week and then see if someone wanted THAT SAME week ).  The common sense way is to meet someone from SP or PC and agree the weeks each party wants ( like here at TUG)  --then book and swap --the success ratio  would go way up - it become a win-win instead of a poor ratio we have.
> 
> So --where are the members of Storied Places & Phillips Club -- have we missed a fractional message board somewhere like there is for Destination Clubs ??
> 
> Greg



Great idea. I found a post with a recent reply about one of the Storied Places on FlyerTalk and posted a reply here. Someone with more familiarity with the DC boards might do one there.


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## ral

*What lottery?*



zentraveler said:


> From what I understand, the lottery for this year for Punta Mita had about a 10% success rate. Something like 2000 owners put in for the lottery and 175 were granted.
> 
> Would be really interested in what others have thought of the non-FS direct exchanges, i.e. Storied Places, Phillips Club etc.



To what lottery are you referring? I am an owner at Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara and do not recall receiving any information regarding a lottery for Punta Mita.


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## zentraveler

ral said:


> To what lottery are you referring? I am an owner at Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara and do not recall receiving any information regarding a lottery for Punta Mita.



They held a lottery this year --the first -- for exchanging into the long awaited Punta Mita units. I was a little surprised that my husband seemed to know about this when I did not (it usually the other way around in this  household  ) and I am still not sure whether the notice came by USPS or email. I think we got notice in October and there was not a long window for putting in requests. Results came out a couple of weeks later in early November.

You should call Owner's Services and see what happened because I suspect, given the demand, that they may do it this way in the future.


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## alwysonvac

zentraveler said:


> They held a lottery this year --the first -- for exchanging into the long awaited Punta Mita units. I was a little surprised that my husband seemed to know about this when I did not (it usually the other way around in this  household  ) and I am still not sure whether the notice came by USPS or email. I think we got notice in October and there was not a long window for putting in requests. Results came out a couple of weeks later in early November.
> 
> You should call Owner's Services and see what happened because I suspect, given the demand, that they may do it this way in the future.



I don't recall getting a notification. Did you request an exchange into Punta Mita before receiving the email or mailing? I wonder if they only notified those who expressed an interest in exchanging to Punta Mita.


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## zentraveler

alwysonvac said:


> I don't recall getting a notification. Did you request an exchange into Punta Mita before receiving the email or mailing? I wonder if they only notified those who expressed an interest in exchanging to Punta Mita.



No, we had not requested Punta Mita (I think we had given up hope it would ever actually be available  ). My husband cannot remember whether it came in the mail or by email, but he just got the notice of the lottery and signed up. (I was a bit miffed, because I usually handle all of this for us and I did not get any notice, though it is possible that if it came in the US mail I could have missed it. I definitely did not get an email.)

Pretty strange...definitely worth a call so they know something is wrong!


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## tbone586

Hello. Sounds like some of you are looking for Philips Club owners to exchange time with. We are new PC owners and may be interested in a swap. Not sure how this would work, so please post general info here, or feel free to PM me with specifics. Thank you.


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## alwysonvac

*Exchange Lottery for 2010 email received today*

Just want to make sure no one misses it this year



> _The purpose of the Four Seasons Residence Club 2009 Exchange Drawing is to allow owners of Residence Club Intervals (“Interval” or “Intervals”) at Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara (“Aviara”) and Four Seasons Residence Club Scottsdale at Troon North (“Scottsdale”), who are also Club Members, to indicate their desire to submit priority exchange requests for stays during the 2010 Use Year at the following projects:
> • Four Seasons Residence Club Costa Rica (“Costa Rica”)
> • Four Seasons Residence Club Punta Mita (“Punta Mita”)_



*NOTE:* 
(1) Only Intervals associated with Club Membership are eligible for the 2009 Exchange Drawing. 
(2) A nightly rate will be charged for each night confirmed at Costa Rica or Punta Mita depending on season and unit type reserved as indicated on the 2010 Exchange Fee Schedule  (see email for more information).


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## ral

Thanks, alwysonvac. I did miss the lottery last year. I did not receive an email or snail mail last year.

I have received this year's lottery email. It was very thoughtful of you to present this information on TUG, just in case.

Hope we both win!!


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