# What we learned about the new Hyatt Point System



## dbmarch (Sep 5, 2018)

We were at Sunset Harbor week of Aug 19.  We attended an update while we were there.

We have 2 units.  1 is a 1400 point every year at Sunset Harbor.   The other is a 2000 point EOY at Windward Pointe.   

They were interested in us converting the units to the new point system and were offering us $8k for 1 unit or $13k for both units.  This would have "hyattized" our units.    We don't ever trade HSH and we try to trade WP for HSH so this was too valuable for us.

We learned that the properties are pooled in either the new point system or the current one.  As part of the original point system, if we make a request for a reservation that is not our week ( HRPP)  we would only be able to access units that are not converted.   What this means is that trading under the old system will continue to get more difficult as more properties will wind up in the new pool.

Under the new point system, we were told we would be able to 'reserve' our deeded week or give it up and make a reservation in the point system.  Making a reservation in the new point system can be done a year in advance starting on Jan 1.  

I had asked what percentage of the HSH units are converted and he wouldn't give me a straight answer.  It is somewhere between 17% and 50%.  ( But they have been know to not tell the truth so I am not sure).

Couple of other interesting items:
1) Maintenance fees for the new point system is an average of all of the pooled properties.  Not sure how the voting will work on items such as future maintenance projects as the people in the new point system will be shielded from any resort having a singular maintenance fee spike.

2) They are exercising ROFR for almost any property to push it into the pool.  ( According to the Sales guy).   They seem to be doing pretty well selling them with the new point system as it addresses some of the flaws of the Hyatt system (HRPP/CUP/LCUP) at various dates through the year).    It would be interesting to see if there are any resales that get through now.   

3) They continued to try to influence us to switch as they wanted our properties.   I told them it was more valuable to them for us to switch than it was for us  

Overall I think the new program looks to be better in terms of trading.  It will have a negative affect on anyone under the old point system who tries to trade.


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## nuwermj (Sep 5, 2018)

dbmarch said:


> We learned that the properties are pooled in either the new point system or the current one.  As part of the original point system, if we make a request for a reservation that is not our week ( HRPP)  we would only be able to access units that are not converted.   *What this means is that trading under the old system will continue to get more difficult as more properties will wind up in the new pool*.



Sales agents like us to believe that trading under the old system will continue to get more difficult because it encourages people to convert. But I'm not so sure that it's much of a problem, at least not for a very long time. Remembers when someone converts, it is not only the amount of inventory in the old system that declines, the demand for that inventory also declines. That is, there are fewer people competing in the old system.


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## DAman (Sep 5, 2018)

I’m ok with the current system. There is no reason for me to spend a lot of money to convert. None. Way too expensive. I would sell and leave Hyatt if I had to convert except at little to no cost.

I have had a lot of success meeting my needs in the current system. I hope other owners do their homework and come to my conclusion too.

I would be happy if the new system was a complete failure.


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## Sapper (Sep 5, 2018)

DAman said:


> I’m ok with the current system. There is no reason for me to spend a lot of money to convert. None. Way too expensive. I would sell and leave Hyatt if I had to convert except at little to no cost.
> 
> I have had a lot of success meeting my needs in the current system. I hope other owners do their homework and come to my conclusion too.
> 
> I would be happy if the new system was a complete failure.



I too am happy with the current system. When / if the current points system fails, I will feel for the folks who bought into it. There is a possibility that Marriott will straighten it out, however, based on what I am reading over in the Marriott thread, it looks like Marriott may be culling Hyatt from the purchase.  It will be interesting to see what Marriott does with the Hyatt properties.


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## dbmarch (Sep 5, 2018)

I was not advocating switching to the alternate point system.    I have had more difficulty making the trades well in advance.   Rather than wait it out, I will just reserve my HRPP and rent it out when we want to go somewhere else.


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## bdh (Sep 6, 2018)

dbmarch said:


> We were at Sunset Harbor week of Aug 19.  We attended an update while we were there. We have 2 units.  1 is a 1400 point every year at Sunset Harbor.  The other is a 2000 point EOY at Windward Pointe. They were interested in us converting the units to the new point system and were offering us $8k for 1 unit or $13k for both units.



The sales staff was offering to buy your HSH and HWP weeks??  If so, that's the first I've heard of that scenario!  What a deal, they'll give you $13k for 2400 points (1400 HSH every year + 1000 EOY HWP) and you'd give them $13,200 for 660 HPP points.



dbmarch said:


> We learned that the properties are pooled in either the new point system or the current one.  As part of the original point system, if we make a request for a reservation that is not our week ( HRPP)  we would only be able to access units that are not converted.   What this means is that trading under the old system will continue to get more difficult as more properties will wind up in the new pool.



There are two ownership types: HRC deeded and HPP points - when it comes to HRC units, there's one wait list and both HRC and HPP owners stand in the same line and neither owner has an inherent advantage based on the type of ownership.   The advantage an HPP owner has over an HRC owner is for HPP units - HPP can get on the HPP unit list 6 months prior to a HRC owner.  That said, at the moment, there are no HPP locations that don't have HRC units - so not much of an advantage in being an HPP owner.



dbmarch said:


> Under the new point system, we were told we would be able to 'reserve' our deeded week or give it up and make a reservation in the point system.  Making a reservation in the new point system can be done a year in advance starting on Jan 1.



Either the sales staff "mis-spoke" or you "mis-understood" as January 1 is not the start of a wait list request period.  If an HRC owner buys points in the HPP program, January 1 of each year is the beginning of the 12 week period that the HRC owner can elect to deposit their deeded week into the HPP program for that year. 



dbmarch said:


> I had asked what percentage of the HSH units are converted and he wouldn't give me a straight answer.  It is somewhere between 17% and 50%.  ( But they have been know to not tell the truth so I am not sure).



They wouldn't give you the straight answer as it would show that HPP is no where near as successful as 17% at HSH or throughout the other HRC locations.  50% is a comical percentage!



dbmarch said:


> 1) Maintenance fees for the new point system is an average of all of the pooled properties.  Not sure how the voting will work on items such as future maintenance projects as the people in the new point system will be shielded from any resort having a singular maintenance fee spike.



HPP units are owned by the HPP Trust - as an HPP buyer, all you have is points (ie: no deeded ownership).  The "owners" of the Trust decide what future maintenance projects are done. (ie: HPP buyer gets to pay the MF but doesn't get to vote.) 



dbmarch said:


> 2) They are exercising ROFR for almost any property to push it into the pool.  ( According to the Sales guy).   They seem to be doing pretty well selling them with the new point system as it addresses some of the flaws of the Hyatt system (HRPP/CUP/LCUP) at various dates through the year).    It would be interesting to see if there are any resales that get through now.



Pretty much a complete lie.  They were taking some units in June thru Aug of 2017 - then their ROFR cash drawer closed in Sept of 2017 and pretty much everything has cleared ROFR since Oct 2017.



dbmarch said:


> 3) They continued to try to influence us to switch as they wanted our properties.   I told them it was more valuable to them for us to switch than it was for us



Good to hear that you put the koolaid down and said no.



dbmarch said:


> Overall I think the new program looks to be better in terms of trading.  It will have a negative affect on anyone under the old point system who tries to trade.



It will take a lot more HRC owners buying into HPP to make an HRC trade difficult.


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## WalnutBaron (Sep 6, 2018)

bdh nailed it. I agree with every one of his points made. Remember the old adage: How can you tell if a timeshare sales weasel is lying? When his lips move. There are so few who have bought into HPP that it is not now--nor will it ever be--too difficult to exchange into another Hyatt property because of HPP owners reserving in. Some exchanges (Ka'anapali, Siesta Key, Northstar) are always difficult, but that was true before HPP ever existed.


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## dbmarch (Sep 6, 2018)

> Under the new point system, we were told we would be able to 'reserve' our deeded week or give it up and make a reservation in the point system. Making a reservation in the new point system can be done a year in advance starting on Jan 1.





> Either the sales staff "mis-spoke" or you "mis-understood" as January 1 is not the start of a wait list request period. If an HRC owner buys points in the HPP program, January 1 of each year is the beginning of the 12 week period that the HRC owner can elect to deposit their deeded week into the HPP program for that year.



I am pretty certain about this.  We spoke quite a while on this topic.  I am just sharing information we had learned.   Based upon how many points you own, you get to make a reservation from within this new pool a lot further in advance than you can today.   The new point program is based upon a Jan 1st reservation date ( a year in advance) and not a date based upon your week owned.   The property pools are completely separate once you deposit your week.

If there is documentation out there that states how the program works I'd be interested in reading it.   I had scanned some of the documentation there but they would not let me take it unless I joined.


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## bdh (Sep 7, 2018)

dbmarch said:


> I am pretty certain about this.  We spoke quite a while on this topic.  I am just sharing information we had learned.   Based upon how many points you own, you get to make a reservation from within this new pool a lot further in advance than you can today.   The new point program is based upon a Jan 1st reservation date ( a year in advance) and not a date based upon your week owned.   The property pools are completely separate once you deposit your week.
> 
> If there is documentation out there that states how the program works I'd be interested in reading it.   I had scanned some of the documentation there but they would not let me take it unless I joined.



With HRC and HPP, there are two types (pools) of units - however the reality is that both HRC and HPP can access the respective HRC/HPP request lists to obtain a reservation for either type HRC or HPP unit.  As noted in my previous post, HPP buyers can get on the HPP unit request list 6 months prior to an HRC owner's access to HPP request list.  When it comes to HRC units, both HRC and HPP have equal opportunity to the request list as the access time line is identical regardless of the type of unit/points owned. 

The 4 different HPP tiers (Elite, Premier, Executive and Classic) provide different time line priority access to the HPP unit request list.  The tiers are based on the number of HPP points an individual has.  Elite is 6,600 pts or more, Premier is 4,400 to 6,599 pts, Executive is 2,201 to 4,399 pts and Classic is 2,220 pts or less. NOTE that the HPP tier an individual is in has no bearing what so ever on the time line priority access to the HRC unit request list.  If your understanding is that HPP gets "to make a reservation from within this new pool a lot further in advance than you can today", you are entitled to your opinion and I'm good with that.

In the grand scheme of things, the reality is that regardless of ownership type (HPP or HRC), its the same number of owners chasing the same number of Hyatt units - if an HRC owner deposits their deeded HRC week and an HPP owner winds up with it, then that HPP owner's theoretical unit (theoretical unit as in HPP you own nothing other than points) is available to an HRC or HPP owner.  The fact is that HPP owners have to wait for an HRC owner to not utilize their HRPP deeded week and HRC owners have to wait for an HPP owner to not utilize their HPP points.  Each respective ownership type has its pros and cons - however if used correctly, a deed will always trump points.  

I believe that as time goes by and HRC owners understand the value of their HRPP deeded prime week, the number of those weeks rolling to CUP will diminish - the odds of obtaining a prime HRC CUP request list reservation or HPP exchange reservation will correspondingly diminish.  

I believe that Hyatt has been putting a full court press on HRC owners to buy HPP.  IE: if they can get an HRC owner to buy 660 HPP points they'll most likely get that HRC owner to deposit their deeded week to HPP in January - if not, what a person can reserve with 660 HPP points is somewhat undesirable.  If Hyatt was a little smarter, they would have a lower HPP buy in price point for HRC owners to suck them into the HPP web.  I'm thinking that Hyatt is banking on the HRC owner buying into HPP as its unrealistic that there are that many first time TS buyers that are buying 2200 to 6600 HPP points.


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## AJCts411 (Oct 9, 2018)

WK 39, went to a "update". Yes we got out in the hour time frame...with our bucks in our pockets and a few of theirs as well.  After reading of the high pressure tactics on this site, I go to say it was not that much pressure wise.   We did get the "Hyatise" sales pitch for only about 21K...to convert to HPP. Ya no thanks.  They went down from about 1200 to 680 points min. @20 ea.  After rejecting the offers with the "manger...closer..." they tried the points deal, for a mere 2K when you total it up.  Even with their best pitch, I can see no value in buying into for something (HPP) that I think I already have for a "maybe" 6 month advantage.   Regarding the merger...nothing but sunshine coming according to sales, but zero information or facts.


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## TravelTime (Oct 9, 2018)

I am confused by this thread. Is Hyatt offering to Hyatize resale units and convert them into the current Hyatt Points system? If so, this is not at all helpful since Marriott has not yet announced what the new points program will be.


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## breezez (Oct 10, 2018)

AJCts411 said:


> WK 39, went to a "update". Yes we got out in the hour time frame...with our bucks in our pockets and a few of theirs as well.  After reading of the high pressure tactics on this site, I go to say it was not that much pressure wise.   We did get the "Hyatise" sales pitch for only about 21K...to convert to HPP. Ya no thanks.  They went down from about 1200 to 680 points min. @20 ea.  After rejecting the offers with the "manger...closer..." they tried the points deal, for a mere 2K when you total it up.  Even with their best pitch, I can see no value in buying into for something (HPP) that I think I already have for a "maybe" 6 month advantage.   Regarding the merger...nothing but sunshine coming according to sales, but zero information or facts.



Hyatising - seems to be a bad deal for a Gold, Platinum, or Diamond deed.

HPP charges like $.94 cents per point MF.   So if you have a diamond Pinon Pointe and convert your fees go up about $940 a year.   Plus if you like your week you will now have a hard time booking it.

The only benefit I see is if all your contracts were to have points issued Jan 1st.   So combining them were simpler.


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## AJCts411 (Oct 10, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I am confused by this thread. Is Hyatt offering to Hyatize resale units and convert them into the current Hyatt Points system? If so, this is not at all helpful since Marriott has not yet announced what the new points program will be.



Yes, We were offered to Hyatize both of our weeks, by purchasing 680 points we could convert all of our weeks to HPP.  And be able to convert to World of Hyatt as well.  The implication was that buying into HPP now will get us some sort of "advantage" when Marriott unveils their "new deal" for HPP.    At face value... for me, HPP does nothing but add expenses and risk in the way of not getting the week you want due to limited availability.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Oct 10, 2018)

AJCts411 said:


> Yes, We were offered to Hyatize both of our weeks, by purchasing 680 points we could convert all of our weeks to HPP.  And be able to convert to World of Hyatt as well.  The implication was that buying into HPP now will get us some sort of "advantage" when Marriott unveils their "new deal" for HPP.    At face value... for me, HPP does nothing but add expenses and risk in the way of not getting the week you want due to limited availability.


seems like you would still need to buy with Marriott to get into a combined program. We were told 1000 pts and all your weeks come in and 3,000 pts for resale. But that is not official. It is what they did with their last merger with Europe based timeshares they aquired.


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## bdurstta (Oct 17, 2018)

Just got out of the new  "Portfolio" program sales pitch we would have to buy 660 pts...another $13,000+...to be able to convert our current Hyatt deeded contracts into the new system.  Although I love the new program they are rolling out (banking & borrowing is a great advantage), the cost for extra points (and extra maintenance fees) is difficult

When Marriott transitioned over years ago...there was a set price to "buy into" the new program.  I think we paid like $1200 to buy into that program and I have never regretted it.  But $13K? (even with points, that is alot of money)  I am bummed...I was hoping we could do the same here.  

THey are really trying to sell the benefits of World of Hyatt.

However, who knows what changes are in store over the next year? For Hyatt or Marriott?


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## Sapper (Oct 17, 2018)

bdurstta said:


> .
> 
> THey are really trying to sell the benefits of World of Hyatt.
> 
> However, who knows what changes are in store over the next year? For Hyatt or Marriott?



You bring up an interesting point. Hypothetically speaking, IF the Hyatt affiliation were to go away, what happens to the World of Hyatt benefit people were sold on?  Is there anything written in the contract which guarantees the benefit?


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## ivywag (Oct 18, 2018)

Sapper said:


> You bring up an interesting point. Hypothetically speaking, IF the Hyatt affiliation were to go away, what happens to the World of Hyatt benefit people were sold on?  Is there anything written in the contract which guarantees the benefit?


Probably not.  When we purchased 2 developer units at High Sierra in 2000 we were promised Hyatt Gold Passport Platinum for as long as we owned the units.  That was honored until Gold Passport became World of Hyatt a couple of years ago.  I wrote to World of Hyatt and the equivalent World of Hyatt level was granted.  However, this year, when renewal time came up, they did not honor the agreement.  I've sent two letters explaining what was originally promised and they have not even had the decency to reply.  I'm not giving up, but the point is, don't count on World of Hyatt to honor commitments!


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## Sapper (Oct 18, 2018)

ivywag said:


> Probably not.  When we purchased 2 developer units at High Sierra in 2000 we were promised Hyatt Gold Passport Platinum for as long as we owned the units.  That was honored until Gold Passport became World of Hyatt a couple of years ago.  I wrote to World of Hyatt and the equivalent World of Hyatt level was granted.  However, this year, when renewal time came up, they did not honor the agreement.  I've sent two letters explaining what was originally promised and they have not even had the decency to reply.  I'm not giving up, but the point is, don't count on World of Hyatt to honor commitments!



I'm sorry they are not keeping their end of the deal.  How do you approach Hyatt on this issue?  Do you send a copy of the contract to their legal department?  I suppose there is no written recourse for Hyatt failing to maintain their end of the deal.


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## alameda94501 (Aug 17, 2019)

ivywag said:


> Probably not.  When we purchased 2 developer units at High Sierra in 2000 we were promised Hyatt Gold Passport Platinum for as long as we owned the units.  That was honored until Gold Passport became World of Hyatt a couple of years ago.  I wrote to World of Hyatt and the equivalent World of Hyatt level was granted.  However, this year, when renewal time came up, they did not honor the agreement.  I've sent two letters explaining what was originally promised and they have not even had the decency to reply.  I'm not giving up, but the point is, don't count on World of Hyatt to honor commitments!



Hi @ivywag I was just looking over contracts from my rescinded developer purchase in 2016.  As that was 16 years after your purchase I'm sure the benefits were different, and this may not be helpful, but we received this sales brochure:






And on my rescinded contract that had a subcontract titled: 





which details in it:









So that sounds like a promising paragraph to wave in their face with your contract (which probably doesn't have those terms).

Of course, as with anything "incidental", there's also this paragraph:






But it doesn't sound like Hyatt would intentionally do that.

*ALTERNATE PLAN
*
If they granted you in 2017 the Discoverist World of Hyatt level, you can also easily get that for a 'lifetime' if you are in the United States by applying and getting the Chase WOH Credit Card:

https://creditcards.chase.com/travel-credit-cards/world-of-hyatt-credit-card

Cheers!


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## TravelTime (Aug 20, 2019)

dbmarch said:


> I was not advocating switching to the alternate point system.    I have had more difficulty making the trades well in advance.   Rather than wait it out, I will just reserve my HRPP and rent it out when we want to go somewhere else.



How hard is it to rent out a Hyatt? I just purchased Diamond week 14 (2200 points) at Windward Point. Week 14 is often around Easter. Next year, it is the week before Easter. Is it feasible to rent this out in the years I do not go?


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## Kal (Aug 20, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> How hard is it to rent out a Hyatt? I just purchased Diamond week 14 (2200 points) at Windward Point. Week 14 is often around Easter. Next year, it is the week before Easter. Is it feasible to rent this out in the years I do not go?


As an owner, your options are unlimited.  Renting is definitely an option but you will have to provide the renter with a guest certificate.  This is obtained from Hyatt where you will need to provide the renter's contact information.


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## bdh (Aug 22, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> How hard is it to rent out a Hyatt? I just purchased Diamond week 14 (2200 points) at Windward Point. Week 14 is often around Easter. Next year, it is the week before Easter. Is it feasible to rent this out in the years I do not go?



The ease or difficulty in renting a Hyatt is a function of price point and demand for the particular property or specific week.  Windward is a nice property and has great units - the issue is its location in New Town.  The majority of people visiting Key West want to be in Old Town, so Sunset Harbor is more desirable then Windward.  It would be a win if you could rent a Windward week for more of then its maintenance fees.


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