# I didn't drink the Kool-aid!



## Helene4 (Jan 29, 2011)

So the CEO of Disney just received 28 million $ for a bonus based on his ability to manage during a difficult economic time! 
Yes I think it was done on the backs of the DVC members. I'm presently staying at OKW. For my 4 days I get 1...yes, you read that correctly  ONE... packet of coffee for my studio residence. I only get 1 (ONE) maid service for 1 week and that doesn't include a full cleaning, but just changing my towels and taking out my trash. 

DH and I went to the "members meeting" where we got the only perk from Disney which was lemonade, popcorn, and a free hat. This was a "show" to introduce Aulani in Hawaii and not a forum to discuss how to make your tme at the resort better, or to ask questions There is no forum to request changes or make suggestions like at my other resort (also a 5* where I receive maid service EVERY DAY). If I was staying in a hotel room here and not a $ financially captive audience, I would receive maid service every day. 

Since 2002 when we purchased our points at the Beach Club we have seen our DVC member perks, and annual passholder perks erode. 

We mostly frequent the better restaurants, which do not offer discounts in either forums. Come on Disney! Throw me a bone to keep me happy! I can't even decide to make my own arrangements for trades which now is through RCI who was sued by its members for fradulent practices! This is getting annoying. I purchased so we could bring the family. 

I believe we are better off at other 5* resorts where we are appreciated by receiving perks and being appreciated for buying in to their system to begin with, rather than being looked at as "Hey, we already have your money, so we don't have to make you too happy, we just need to find new people to sell our new product to."

Do I sound a little disgruntled? Well I'm not .....I'm REALLY disgruntled. Did you drink the Kool-ade?:annoyed:


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## ausman (Jan 29, 2011)

Oh my.

Disney has never suited me, in fact I've never been. Must be one of the few, the brave ...

On a constructive note, I understand there is a strong rental market for Owners to utilise. Perhaps that would be more appropriate going forward.


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## tomandrobin (Jan 30, 2011)

Disney did have a good year....$6.7 Billion in gross profit, on revenue of $38.06 Billion. Disney made a $1 billion more over 2009.

DVC is a very, very small part of the pie. 
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=DIS+Income+Statement&annual



Disney perks have changed....some of been de-valued, some have gone away, some have been added.


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## bnoble (Jan 30, 2011)

> Yes I think it was done on the backs of the DVC members.


Actually, I think it was on the back of Johnny Depp and ESPN.

But, all of the things you mention have been true since the day you bought.  DVC has never done a full cleaning for a seven night stay.  DVC has always provided only a starter pack of coffee.  Disney has never discounted the more in-demand restaurants for DVC Members or Annual Passholders, unless you buy the Tables in Wonderland card.  DVC members have never managed their own exchanges, even when they were with II.

Indeed, Disney has never been a superior hotelier---they are good, but not great.  There is a reason that they sold/leased land to Four Seasons up by the Magic Kingdom.  They finally realized they don't know what they are doing in that segment of the market.

In short, it's not that you didn't drink the Kool-Aid.  It's that you've finally managed to recover from the pixie dust addiction you were under when you bought.


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## timeos2 (Jan 30, 2011)

*Disney is not a friend*

We loved Disney and enjoyed our years with the free park passes immensely. Then we realized - when they forced us out of RCI and into II with the "$95 penalty fee" tacked on to guests along with the  end of the passes and just what the limited RTU really meant (Disney can charge whatever they want until the last year and then get back resorts in perfect shape to resell again!) and we couldn't sell fast enough.  

As it tiurned out we made a little on the deal but the whole thing soured us on Disney quite a bit. When our only daughter decided she far preferred Universal Parks and the fact that Disney refused to acknowledge that the values of the long term RTU, leases would in fact drop (as they now have and will get much worse soon as the terms left get shorter and shorter) and fees do nothing but rise. People are starting to realize that they will be paying thousands over the last 5-10 years of RTU and have nothing of value to sell. And if they hang on to the last year another $1500+ and a wave goodbye from Disney that can then resell "their" week(s) for tens of thousands all over again on units they paid to maintain. 

Disney is the ultimate in selling "owner friendly" while in fact hold unprecedented control and ability to make money for themselves.  I admire them for the wool they manage to pull over owners (actually long term renters or land lease) but I'd never buy from them again.  They are not our friends they just know how to take our money while making us smile.  Mariott used to be pretty good at a similar approach but pulled too much too soon on a power play that finally exposed the real operation underneath to most owners.


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## blondietink (Jan 30, 2011)

We don't drink coffee so we never even use our free packet.

We enjoy not having to worry about the maid coming when we are sleeping in, or taking a nap in the afternoon.  

When my 50 year contract is over, I'll be dead, so I don't care how much my points will be worth then.

We own in another timeshare system, which doesn't give daily maid service, either.  

We do enjoy the AP discount, TIW card, and have made many friends while staying in our DVC villa.  

Not everybody is a Disney fanatic.  We personally don't like Universal, IOA parks, because they are way too loud, can't take pictures on rides, little handicapped access, and their hotels are expensive.


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## bnoble (Jan 30, 2011)

> We personally don't like Universal...their hotels are expensive.


Well, it's a good thing Disney's hotels aren't expensive!

cool


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## dvc_john (Jan 31, 2011)

Sounds to me like you should sell.

FWIW, I've stayed at over 75 timeshares, including DVC, Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, and many others, and only 1 of them had a mid-week full cleaning if staying for a full week, and only of couple of others had a daily trash/towel service. Limited housekeeping is standard for timeshares!


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## MichaelColey (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm a Disney fanatic*, but not a fan of owning DVC. (I'm not an owner, although I am in the market for a small contract, primarily for the annual pass discount.)

DVC has large upfront costs (10-20X annual maintenance fees depending on whether you buy resale or from Disney, compared to about 1X for any other timeshare in Orlando) and relatively high maintenance fees (50-100% higher than other top Orlando timeshares).

It's far, far more economical (but less flexible) to just exchange in.

As far as the issues you have with them, I can't really relate.  Those sound like typical timeshare things.  Few places have daily housekeeping (without a subtantial fee).  "Member meetings" everywhere are just trying to sell you more.  Everyone is removing perks and benefits and making things more expensive.

* How much of a Disney fanatic am I?

We've gone to Disney World annually since 2008.
We bought annual passes to Disneyland in 2009 and went three times as a family (and I snuck in three day trips when I had layovers at LAX).
We went to Disneyland Paris last year.
We bought annual passes to Disney World in September and will be going a total of 11 weeks (in 6 trips) during the year. (We'll probably take a bit of a break after that.) This will include stays at Beach Club Villas, Saratoga Springs, Wilderness Lodge and Animal Kingdom (all 2BR units, through RCI).


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## heathpack (Jan 31, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> DVC has large upfront costs (10-20X annual maintenance fees depending on whether you buy resale or from Disney, compared to about 1X for any other timeshare in Orlando) and relatively high maintenance fees (50-100% higher than other top Orlando timeshares).
> 
> It's far, far more economical (but less flexible) to just exchange in.



I read statements like this all the time on TUG.  Why X, Y, or Z is the most important factor to consider with timesharing- "you get so much more space with Marriott," or "its way cheaper to own in Branson and trade to Hawaii," or "Hiltons have the best decor, they are the only timeshare to own."  As if to everyone else the same priorities- space or price or a specific decorating style.

If you enjoy and have the spare time to work the trade system, are ok with owning multiple 2-3BR units, don't mind spending a fair amount of time and engery selling your units down the road (should the need arise), like staying on and off Disney property equally, have 3 kids, and a schedule that allows 11 weeks of travel per year, yes maybe it makes more sense to own elsewhere and trade in to DVC.

If you see a timeshare as a form of real property and want to leave it to your heirs, then an RTU is no good.

Me?  I spend a lot of time planning travel, but realistically can't spend any more than I currently do.  I have limited time off, a complicated schedule that I must organize far in advance and time-consuming interests other than time-sharing.  I do not not desire more than a studio unit, don't travel with more than 1 other person and would never want to own a timeshare somewhere I would not be ok with travelling every year (meaning Las Vegas, Orlando and Branson are out).  I want no part of owning a timeshare that has a decent chance of costing me money to dispose of should I want to be rid of it 5 years from now.  And I find an RTU to be an advantage because the arrangement is finite and the MF do not go on forever.

More power to those of you who see things differently.  There is more than one way to skin a cat.  Sometimes I think people on TUG state things as if there is a black and white clear advantage to one approach over another.  

H


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## dvc_john (Jan 31, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> I'm a Disney fanatic*



Sorry, but:
I went to the Magic Kingdom the year it opened. Same for EPCOT, DHS, AK and California Adventure.
I've been to all eleven Disney parks (Orlando, Anaheim, Tokyo 2 trips, Hong Kong, Paris 3 trips) (stayed at Newport Bay and Hotel Cheyenne at DLP, and Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier Hotel, and Grand Californian Hotel in Anaheim)
I've had a WDW AP for at least 8 years
I spend the winter in Florida, with about 30 days at DVC, a week or two at Marriotts, and 2 weeks or so at Hilton.
(This year was Boardwalk, Beach Club, Bay Lake Tower, Saratoga Springs, Old Key West, Hilton Parc Soleil, Hilton Tuscany, Marriott Lakeshore Reserve).
I've been to all 10 DVC resorts (including Villas at Grand Californian last September and TreeHouse Villas last January).
I've taken a cruise on Disney Magic


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## Bell30655 (Jan 31, 2011)

I love Disney and have been many, many times since 1971.  I was lucky enough to have two aunts that worked there throughout the 70's.  I practically lived in the parks growing up.  One summer we tried to go every single day!!!  I remember running through the Utilidors and other mischievous things that could be done before cameras and alarms were installed everywhere.

For many years, I avoided the "Kool Aid".  Then Disney decided to offer the 50 point DVC membership level last year.  This was the points package made for me.  Best Kool Aid I have drank.  We bought our discounted AP's and with AP's we get great room only discounts for quick trips.

As for the room coffee?  Stop by the front desk or stop any mousekeeper.  They'll give you several gratis.  Of course, I never travel without my Keurig so that isn't an issue for me.


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## littlestar (Jan 31, 2011)

dvc_john said:


> Sorry, but:
> I went to the Magic Kingdom the year it opened. Same for EPCOT, DHS, AK and California Adventure.
> I've been to all eleven Disney parks (Orlando, Anaheim, Tokyo 2 trips, Hong Kong, Paris 3 trips) (stayed at Newport Bay and Hotel Cheyenne at DLP, and Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier Hotel, and Grand Californian Hotel in Anaheim)
> I've had a WDW AP for at least 8 years
> ...



Wow.  Which Disney park do you like the best?

Regarding the original post, I've not stayed at any timeshares that offer housekeeping (even a trash and towel) except for DVC.  I actually like no housekeeping.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 31, 2011)

dvc_john said:


> ...I went to the Magic Kingdom the year it opened...



I went 14 times the year it opened. I was a college student in the immediate area and Disney paid the college performers for the opening day parade with all E-tickets. Going rate was $5 or less at school.

Already brought my 40 year Anniversity coffee cups.  

I still have my Mickey & Minnie Mouse matching clear glass beer mugs.  

My, how we have all aged. :hysterical:


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## MichaelColey (Jan 31, 2011)

dvc_john said:


> Sorry, but:
> I went to the Magic Kingdom the year it opened. Same for EPCOT, DHS, AK and California Adventure.
> I've been to all eleven Disney parks (Orlando, Anaheim, Tokyo 2 trips, Hong Kong, Paris 3 trips) (stayed at Newport Bay and Hotel Cheyenne at DLP, and Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier Hotel, and Grand Californian Hotel in Anaheim)
> I've had a WDW AP for at least 8 years
> ...


I should probably rephrase that and say I'm a Disney Fanatic Jr.  My fanaticism certainly can't compare to this!  But I'm getting there.  

Of the Disney parks I've been to (WDW, DL and DLP), I'm not sure I could pick a favorite.  It's kind of like picking a favorite kid.  They all have different unique things that make them special.  At Disneyland Paris, I loved the castle (more ornate than either of ours here in the US, plus a dragon in the basement!) and they had several unique rides and attractions.


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## bnoble (Jan 31, 2011)

Maybe we should just all whip out our "mouse ears" and measure.  Then we'd know once and for all.

-brian, who kids because he cares, but thinks that Disneyland Paris could give any park anywhere a run for its money.  Stunningly beautiful.


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## dvc_john (Jan 31, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Of the Disney parks I've been to (WDW, DL and DLP), I'm not sure I could pick a favorite.  It's kind of like picking a favorite kid.  They all have different unique things that make them special.



I agree with this. When you've been to one park several hundred times (Magic Kingdom), and another park 1 time (Hong Kong), you might say the park less visited would be your favorite because it's new and fresh to you.
But in most ways, Magic Kingdom would be better than Hong Kong, if for no other reason than park size and number of attractions.

With that said, I'd have to say Tokyo DisneySea was the most unique. I wish they would build a copy of it in Florida (5th gate?!). All 5 'Magic Kingdom's' are special in their own way.


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## Serina (Jan 31, 2011)

*Just wondering...*

Enjoy reading about all the 'Disney fanatics'...we love it there too. Just wondering, for those that make multiple trips a year, do you have kids? If so, how are you able to go on vacation so much? We are locked into school vacation schedules at this point.


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## Serina (Jan 31, 2011)

dvc_john said:


> Sorry, but:
> I went to the Magic Kingdom the year it opened. Same for EPCOT, DHS, AK and California Adventure.
> I've been to all eleven Disney parks (Orlando, Anaheim, Tokyo 2 trips, Hong Kong, Paris 3 trips) (stayed at Newport Bay and Hotel Cheyenne at DLP, and Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier Hotel, and Grand Californian Hotel in Anaheim)
> I've had a WDW AP for at least 8 years
> ...




WOW! That is impressive!:whoopie:


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## MichaelColey (Jan 31, 2011)

Serina said:


> Enjoy reading about all the 'Disney fanatics'...we love it there too. Just wondering, for those that make multiple trips a year, do you have kids? If so, how are you able to go on vacation so much? We are locked into school vacation schedules at this point.


We homeschool the kids (year round, lighter load when we're traveling) and I'm self-employed with an online business that I can do from anywhere.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 1, 2011)

Serina said:


> Enjoy reading about all the 'Disney fanatics'...we love it there too. Just wondering, for those that make multiple trips a year, do you have kids? If so, how are you able to go on vacation so much? We are locked into school vacation schedules at this point.



I'm locked into the school schedule, with older kids(3rd and 8th grade). While the district is rather flexible about missing school, the 8th grader is at a point where missing more than a day or 2 is tough, especially next year in HS.

 We manage to go at least twice a year. We've gone at Thanksgiving for a week, kids get a 4 day weekend at MLK. We also have 4 day weekends in early November and early May. We do not do WDW for spring break, but go to DVC Vero Beach.

Next year school year, we doing the early November trip, MLK weekend and early May. 

It also helps that we have ample numbers of direct flights(2.5hrs).

Doing the short trips works well if you own DVC, my Wyndham points work well too, but are a touch less flexible than DVC.


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## dvc_john (Feb 1, 2011)

Serina said:


> Just wondering, for those that make multiple trips a year, do you have kids? If so, how are you able to go on vacation so much?



Easy for me....retired.


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## Serina (Feb 1, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> I'm locked into the school schedule, with older kids(3rd and 8th grade). While the district is rather flexible about missing school, the 8th grader is at a point where missing more than a day or 2 is tough, especially next year in HS.
> 
> We do not do WDW for spring break, but go to DVC Vero Beach.




We've never been to Vero Beach. Love to hear from those that have been...


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 1, 2011)

Serina said:


> We've never been to Vero Beach. Love to hear from those that have been...



This will be our 3rd visit, I was planning on taking a lot of pictures of the resort, bring back the activity sheet etc. 

We own at VB, when I get the MF's, but being able to use the 11 month window to nab one of the 6 Beach Cottages is worth it.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 3, 2011)

Serina said:


> Enjoy reading about all the 'Disney fanatics'...we love it there too. Just wondering, for those that make multiple trips a year, do you have kids? If so, how are you able to go on vacation so much? We are locked into school vacation schedules at this point.




Our kids are older (17,19&25), but only take them once a year....New Years. The other 4-5 times are either with friends or just the 2 of us.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 3, 2011)

Serina said:


> We've never been to Vero Beach. Love to hear from those that have been...



Here are some pics from a few years ago.

http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/tomandrobin/Vero%20Beach%202008/


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## Serina (Feb 3, 2011)

tomandrobin said:


> Here are some pics from a few years ago.
> 
> http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/tomandrobin/Vero%20Beach%202008/




Great pictures - thanks for sharing!


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## chriskre (Feb 4, 2011)

Not that I'm in any competition or anything but I've been to Disney at least 2 times a year and most years 3 times almost every year since opening year.

I'll let you do the math.   
Dad took me for my birthday opening year 1971.  

I've spent a fortune in Mickey's kingdom over the years and finally decided about 7 years ago that it was time to commit to Mickey and drink his kool aid.

Do I regret it?  No, not at all and I even bought direct.   
Reality is that when I bought there wasn't a whole lot of difference between resale and direct so I'm okay with that.  I certainly feel I've gotten my money's worth.  It's nice being able to stay in all the resorts pretty much anytime I want to with proper planning.  Studios work fine for me most times so points stretching is easy in off season studios.  

It also helps that I live in Florida and can drive for the weekend.   

To the OP, if you're tired of Disney try renting or trading your points.  I've done direct exchanges with Bluegreen and Wyndham owners to get resorts that I can't get in RCI easily like Hershey, Solara, Bonnet Creek Presidential units etc.  Many people want to go to Disney and would be more than happy to do a direct exchange with you.  I've even seen people offering 2 bedroom units in Hawaii in exchange for Disney points.  Maybe you just need a break for a while.  You've got a hot commodity for direct trades.  Don't sell you membership short.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 4, 2011)

Serina said:


> Great pictures - thanks for sharing!



Serina, they've redone the rooms. Our 2br in 2009 had just been done. Flat screen tv's(full range cable choices at VB), the sleeper chairs, new fabrics(should hold up better than those pastels) and they  have WIFI now.


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## Helene4 (Feb 6, 2011)

Ahhhh Lots of Kool-ade drinkers.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 6, 2011)

Helene4 said:


> Ahhhh Lots of Kool-ade drinkers.



I'm more of a chugger, not a sipper of the kool-aid. 

Anyone got a funnel?


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## ekinggill (Feb 6, 2011)

The more I learn, the less I would ever consider buying in Orlando.  Timeshares at nice resorts are being given away and you can rent unused TS weeks for less than the maintenance fee.

With that said, I don't think DVC is any different than the other mega-TS companies...revenue is way down, expenses have to be cut, and existing owners have few contractually guaranteed rights and privileges.


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## tomandrobin (Feb 6, 2011)

ekinggill said:


> The more I learn, the less I would ever consider buying in Orlando.  Timeshares at nice resorts are being given away and you can rent unused TS weeks for less than the maintenance fee.



True for resorts in Orlando, except for DVC. Resale prices have fallen, but not like the other Orlando resorts. Plus, the one thing DVC has that the Orlando timeshares is location. 

I can rent my excessive points any day of the week, for a minimum of 2-3 times maintenance fees. 



ekinggill said:


> With that said, I don't think DVC is any different than the other mega-TS companies...revenue is way down, expenses have to be cut, and existing owners have few contractually guaranteed rights and privileges.



Again...True. DVC is just another timeshare company.


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## littlestar (Feb 6, 2011)

The difference with DVC is its onsite Disney World location.  If a room at Disney's Beach Club resort is $350 to $500 a night on cash (and people pay it believe it or not), that has got to influence the prices on a Beach Club Villa DVC studio.


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## MichaelColey (Feb 7, 2011)

We're currently at Beach Club Villas.  The timeshare unit itself is slightly inferior to some of the better Orlando timeshares - slightly smaller, small fridge with no icemaker, small kitchen and dining room table, and a bunch of other little things.  But the location ROCKS.  We were able to walk from our rooms to the World Showcase entrance at Epcot in FIVE MINUTES.  We walked over this evening to watch Illuminations, and were literally only gone from our room for 30 minutes.


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## M&M (Feb 7, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> We're currently at Beach Club Villas.  The timeshare unit itself is slightly inferior to some of the better Orlando timeshares - slightly smaller, small fridge with no icemaker, small kitchen and dining room table, and a bunch of other little things.  But the location ROCKS.  We were able to walk from our rooms to the World Showcase entrance at Epcot in FIVE MINUTES.  We walked over this evening to watch Illuminations, and were literally only gone from our room for 30 minutes.



I couldn't agree with you more!


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## Culli (Feb 17, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> We're currently at Beach Club Villas.  The timeshare unit itself is slightly inferior to some of the better Orlando timeshares - slightly smaller, small fridge with no icemaker, small kitchen and dining room table, and a bunch of other little things.  But the location ROCKS.  We were able to walk from our rooms to the World Showcase entrance at Epcot in FIVE MINUTES.  We walked over this evening to watch Illuminations, and were literally only gone from our room for 30 minutes.



Mike we where at BCV same time 2/4-2/11, weird weather hey!  You can' t beat BCV or BWV for location.  Rooms are average compared to what they try to market themselves against.  However, we are not all that picky, be clean, work, and if needed fix quickly...we are picky on LOCATION and convenience.  Great location to walk to ESPN club and party with rest of Packer fans after the Super Bowl win!


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