# Worldmark Question from a Newbie



## Mayble (Jul 26, 2011)

I recently joined Tug while researching timeshares online. Before finding Tug I didn't know all these timeshare options existed.  While researching I learned of Worldmark, I was originally considering Wyndham.  I'm really intrigued about the Worldmark system. I really love the idea it's strong trader and I can stay at different places including Marriott, Hilton etc.  I live in Ontario, Canada (one hour from Niagara Falls), obviously not many resort options available to me within driving distance.  Has anyone who doesn't live in the west coast purchased Worldmark and how has it worked out for you?  Also, it seems you can’t give Wyndham timeshares away and yet Worldmark still has a decent resale value and low maintenance fees compared to other timeshares.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 26, 2011)

Tug is a wonderful resource - but if you want information on Worldmark specifically I would head over to WMOwners.com.

Although known for it's trading - I am not sure I would invest in WM based on where you live - 

Perhaps another Tugger could suggest a "Mini System" for the Northeast corner (Guess it would be the South east corner to you:rofl: )


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## Mayble (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for moving my post.  I wasn't sure where to post my question.


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## cruisin (Jul 27, 2011)

I love worldmark, but I also do not think it makes a lot of sense where you live.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I live east of Cleveland, where there are also no WM resorts and I still bought WM, just for trading.  I'm not aware of any other systems where you can buy in for less than 2k and have top trade preference (outside of marriott and starwood preference periods) in both RCI and II.  You can also rent as many WM points as you want for the same cost as owning those points.  I never intend to stay at a WM resort, but I bought just to trade.  I haven't even owned for a year, so I do not have a bunch of success stories to share but I was able to pull a Wyndham Ocean Boulevard 2 bedroom checking in this weekend with WM.  Got that trade in February, I think.  Before that trade, I turned down a couple Disney Vero beach summer trades.  I was also just recently offered a Marriott Ocean Pointe 2 bedroom over 4th of July week next summer with my WM points, so WM trades pretty well.

If all you want is a trader, then I do not think you can go wrong with WM.  My advice is to buy a 5k point contract.  You save over $100 a year in dues over a 6k point contract and the differnce in owning 5k points or 6k points is very small.  You can easily rent however many more points you need.

Would be nice if WM had an ocean front Myrtle Beach property but I guess most WM owners are in the Western half of the country.

One other thing to keep in mind is that most Wyndham resorts are along the East coast and owning WM doesn't buy you anything in terms of trading into Wyndham resorts.  All wyndham owners can trade into WM resorts (I think) but WM owners (except those who purchased many years ago or bought retail) cannot trade into Wynhdam, and even those WM owners who can trade into Wyndham are restricted to the less prime Wynhdam resorts.


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## sue1947 (Jul 27, 2011)

"All wyndham owners can trade into WM resorts (I think)"

Nope.  Worldmark and Wyndham do have some of each others resorts available, but a limited amount.  Don't buy either system if you plan to use the other; buy what you will use.

WM is a good trader.  Check out the Vacation Exchange thread at www.wmowners.com.  I know of another person in Europe who bought just for trading and used it well for several years but has since sold it.  Sometimes exchanging isn't in the cards and you want to have a system you can use without it.   If you do decide to buy WM, buy a small account (6000 is the smallest usually available, 5000 is the smallest that exists) and test it out to see if it works for you.  Again, read at www.wmowners.com to fully understand what you have.

Sue


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## jdunn1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm still not sure if all Wyndham owners, regardless if they bought resale or retail can book WM resorts, but for those who can, it is only a limited number of rooms at each resort, like one or two units.  

On the WM side, for those owners who can exchange into the handful of Wyndham resorts, only one ore two units are set aside for WM owners, so the odds of getting an exchange are very slim.  For example, some WM owners can exchange into Ocean Boulevard, but only two units out of the 1k or so units at that resort are set aside for WM owners to use.

One other important thing to note about WM is that it is very easy to sell your WM contract when you are done.  WM contracts sell within weeks on WM owners.com and I think most, if not all WM contracts that do not have a reserve set-up sell on ebay for about 1.2 - 2k per 6k point contract.

I started with a 6k contract, then permanently sold 1k of my points for $400 plus the contract change fee of $150 in less than a week of posting my add on WM owners.com.  For weeks after I found a buyer, I had people contacting me.  I split my contact this past April.  Now WM charges you $300 for any contact change.

If I had unlimited funds to pay all the dues, I would own Wyndham to use and keep my WM points as a trader.  For what it is worth, I have heard it explained that WM points are such good traders because very few owners actually use their points outside of the WM system.  What I do (i.e. use WM as a trader) is not very common, I guess.




sue1947 said:


> "All wyndham owners can trade into WM resorts (I think)"
> 
> Nope.  Worldmark and Wyndham do have some of each others resorts available, but a limited amount.  Don't buy either system if you plan to use the other; buy what you will use.
> 
> ...


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## Mayble (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for your replies.  I love the idea of the low maintenance fees and the fact that it's such a good trader and relatively inexpensive to purchase.  I was originally thinking of a Whyndham resort with low maintenance fees, however, I don't want to get stuck going to the same resort every year if it doesn't trade well or I'm not able to book another Wyndham resort.  I'm also worried I won't be able to get rid of it if it doesn't work for me.  I've only just started researching and I'm overwhelmed with all the options and how much there is to know.  I was one of those people who believed that timeshares are never a good value and it's cheaper renting than owning.  However, having been on this board for such a short period, I've come to realize if you do your homework you can really stretch a timeshare and get a lot of value out.  The possibilities are exciting!


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## cotraveller (Jul 27, 2011)

jdunn1 said:


> For what it is worth, I have heard it explained that WM points are such good traders because very few owners actually use their points outside of the WM system.  What I do (i.e. use WM as a trader) is not very common, I guess.



I believe that is a true statement.  At the 2010 WorldMark Annual Owners Meeting it was reported that there were about 11,000 Confirm First exchanges and a little over 2,500 space banks.  With 250,000 WorldMark owners that is an exchange rate of just over 5%, based on one week per owner, which is the approximate median level of ownership. In other words, 95% of WorldMark useage is in-system rather than via exchange.

With 70 plus resorts to choose from and the capability to book any of those resorts at any time of the year, most owners see little reason to exchange.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 27, 2011)

cotraveller said:


> With 70 plus resorts to choose from and the capability to book any of those resorts at any time of the year, most owners see little reason to exchange.


 
With no exchange fee of $ 139 to $ 199 and no annual membership $ 89 or less for a multi year commitment.

If the exchange companies change their practices (like that would ever happen) the OP would end up owning a mini system that is not practical for their geography as a fall back plan


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## cbm32 (Jul 28, 2011)

I picked up a ton of Wyndham points five years ago for just the cost of transfering the deeds into my name.  I loved it for a few years.  With the changes they have made in the system over the last couple of years, I am not sure I would do that deal if offered to me today.

Actually thinking of buying some Worlmark to go with what I have.


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## ChrisandBeth (Jul 28, 2011)

Rent_Share said:


> If the exchange companies change their practices (like that would ever happen) the OP would end up owning a mini system that is not practical for their geography as a fall back plan





I don't think lower exchange and membership fees would dramatically change WM inventory or trading power. Most people  buy it to use in a few resorts within driving distance of their homes, plus the odd trip further afield. Many WM owners have never traded.

I think its usually good to own within driving distance of your home resort but Worldmark is the exception. I live out west but if I was transferred back east now, I sure would not sell it. 

The resale market is still very strong, so if its not the right choice you should have no trouble recouping most if not all of your investment. 

 The best forum for all things WM is here:

www.wmowners.com


Chris


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## nightnurse613 (Jul 28, 2011)

I have looked long and hard at WM.  As some people have pointed out, it can be excellent for us living in the West and also seems to trade very well.  The aspect that has always appealed to me is the ability to recoup your investment pretty easily (on the resale side, of course).  The transfer fee did just double but, more importantly, Wyndham seems to flexing it's muscle and trying to mess up a good system.  I am hoping that their effort fails or there may be significant changes which could affect the future of WM.


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## cbm32 (Jul 28, 2011)

nightnurse613 said:


> I have looked long and hard at WM.  As some people have pointed out, it can be excellent for us living in the West and also seems to trade very well.  The aspect that has always appealed to me is the ability to recoup your investment pretty easily (on the resale side, of course).  The transfer fee did just double but, more importantly, Wyndham seems to flexing it's muscle and trying to mess up a good system.  I am hoping that their effort fails or there may be significant changes which could affect the future of WM.


 

A valid worry in my opinion and one of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger on a WM deal yet.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 28, 2011)

cbm32 said:


> A valid worry in my opinion and one of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger on a WM deal yet.


 
The underlying bylaws of Worldmark the Club state what the hired management Company can do, ie Maintenance fee increases are capped at 5 % per year period

What is convoluted is that Cendant (now Wyndham) bought Trendwest the company the builds and markets the properties. The majority of the the directors of World Mark the Club {the actual owners of the Timeshare Points {ME}) are employees of Wyndham who have selected Wyndham as the management company

Up to now they have stifled any open communication to the other members through the various venues of communication and control enough proxies to keep themselves employed as the management company and directors

Everything they do to create "new value" to sell the memberships (as a commisioned sales organization) puts a strain on the existing system


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## HenryT (Jul 28, 2011)

I own a 6k account with WM and I live on the East coast. I also own Wyndham, Marriott, Starwood, etc. I purchased the WM account to have access to their West Coast resorts. I normally go on WM vacations every other year and I rent additional points if I need them. 

I have been to several of their Oregon resorts and I have reserved Yellowstone for July 2012.

WM gives be access to nice mid-tier resorts in areas where it could be difficult to get in other systems so it works for me.


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## K2Quick (Jul 28, 2011)

Mayble said:


> I recently joined Tug while researching timeshares online. Before finding Tug I didn't know all these timeshare options existed.  While researching I learned of Worldmark, I was originally considering Wyndham.  I'm really intrigued about the Worldmark system. I really love the idea it's strong trader and I can stay at different places including Marriott, Hilton etc.  I live in Ontario, Canada (one hour from Niagara Falls), obviously not many resort options available to me within driving distance.  Has anyone who doesn't live in the west coast purchased Worldmark and how has it worked out for you?  Also, it seems you can’t give Wyndham timeshares away and yet Worldmark still has a decent resale value and low maintenance fees compared to other timeshares.



It would be helpful if you could say which specific resorts you were interested in trading into and what time of year you were interested in going.  If you are most interested in trading into a Marriott resort, for example, it might make more sense for you to buy a Marriott resort to take advantage of their trading preference window in II.  Without knowing your specific goals, I don't think it's possible for anyone to tell you whether buying WM makes sense.


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## Mayble (Jul 28, 2011)

I prefer Marriott or Starwood quality resorts.  I can't speak to Wyndham as I have never stayed in any of their resorts.  We'll be staying at Bonnet Creek in August for the first time.  I started researching Wyndham when I realized you can pick it up from next to nothing.  However, I would prefer to pay a little bit more if the timeshare gives me more options.

My concern with Marriott or Starwood is the high maintenance fees. I would be happy with a timeshare that allowed me to stay at a variety of nice quality resorts without the high maintenance fees.  We usually travel during low seasons to avoid crowds and the high cost of hotels and flights.  Having said that, I have two teenagers and a seven year old so I do have to keep school schedules into consideration when planning vacations.  We've mostly vacationed in Orlando, however, I learned from this forum not to buy an Orlando home resort due to the fact it doesn't exchange very well.

I suppose what I want is what everyone wants.  A timeshare with high trading value and low maintenance fees.  Maintenance fees and quality of resorts are probably most important on my list.


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## Mayble (Jul 28, 2011)

*Opinions*

Based on my requirement of having high quality resorts and low maintenance fees, would I be better off purchasing an every other year Marriott like Willowridge?  If I get a lock off can I get one vacation a year out if it?  I know I will need to travel low season in order to be able to trade up to a two bedroom, would this work?


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## cruisin (Jul 29, 2011)

Rent_Share said:


> The underlying bylaws of Worldmark the Club state what the hired management Company can do, ie Maintenance fee increases are capped at 5 % per year period
> 
> What is convoluted is that Cendant (now Wyndham) bought Trendwest the company the builds and markets the properties. The majority of the the directors of World Mark the Club {the actual owners of the Timeshare Points {ME}) are employees of Wyndham who have selected Wyndham as the management company
> 
> ...



There are provisions in the governing docs that allow more than a 5% increase in dues, just has never been done yet, 
and actually by inflating credit values and making more red seasons, dues per unit have gone up tremendously. a 1 bedroom unit at long beach is 98% more credits for a year than a 1 bedroom in longbeach at surfside. There really should have been no increases in dues since the inflated credit values at new resorts bring in dues that are way higher than the cost to maintain what created the credits.


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## K2Quick (Jul 29, 2011)

Mayble said:


> My concern with Marriott or Starwood is the high maintenance fees. I would be happy with a timeshare that allowed me to stay at a variety of nice quality resorts without the high maintenance fees.  We usually travel during low seasons to avoid crowds and the high cost of hotels and flights.  Having said that, I have two teenagers and a seven year old so I do have to keep school schedules into consideration when planning vacations.  We've mostly vacationed in Orlando, however, I learned from this forum not to buy an Orlando home resort due to the fact it doesn't exchange very well.



It might go against the grain of popular thought, but you might actually want to buy in Orlando given that's where you vacation most often.  In my reading of the Marriott board, it seems that most who own at Marriott's Grande Vista are more than happy with the trading power of that resort.  Branson, as you mentioned, might also be a good option given they have the lowest maintenance fees in the Marriott system.

Note that minimizing the dollars you spend to obtain major scores on trades with Worldmark takes a lot of effort in terms of scouring II and sightings boards and also takes some gambles and good luck in terms of getting a good deposit if you choose to do the deposit first method (which is the only way you're going to come out ahead monetarily with WM compared to using a Marriott unit with a lock-off).

Just for kicks, below are some quick (and in my mind realistic) costs of trading into two non-peak weeks per year at 2BR units at Marriott resorts:

Using Marriott Grande Vista:
Maintenance Fees $956
Lock-Off Fee $75
Trade Fees $208 (2 @ $104)
Total $1,239

Using Marriott Branson:
Maintenance Fees $815
Lock-Off Fee $75
Trade Fees $208 (2 @ $104)
Total $1,098

Using 6K Worldmark Account (Deposit First Using Blue Studio Unit):
Maintenance Fees $613 (Membership fee of $493 plus 2k credits purchased at $0.06 each)
Extra Housekeeping Token $60
Trade Fees $278 (2 @ $139)
Total $951

Using 6K Worldmark Account (Deposit First Using Blue Two-Bed Unit):
Maintenance Fees $733 (Membership fee of $493 plus 6k credits purchased at $0.06 each)
Extra Housekeeping Token $60
Trade Fees $278 (2 @ $139)
Total $1,071

Using 6K Worldmark Account (Request First):
Maintenance Fees $1,333 (Membership fee of $493 plus 14k credits purchased at $0.06 each)
Extra Housekeeping Token $60
Trade Fees $278 (2 @ $139)
Total $1,671

Using Sheraton Desert Oasis (Request First):
Maintenance Fees $909
Trade Fees $278 (2 @ $139)
Total $1,187

In the above, the cheapest Marriott option costs $147 per year than the cheapest WM option.  The cheapest Marriott option will involve considerably less luck on your part, however, since you'd be able to cherry pick the highest-trading-power week at Branson for deposit (on all deposit-firsts, WM chooses the week they'll deposit for you).  The only way to take risk out of the equation with Worldmark is to do a full-on request-first trade using the full 10,000 credits and that will set you back almost as much as just buying two Orlando weeks.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably buy a Marriott in Orlando.  You'd get something with decent trading power that you know you'll enjoy using even if all the rules related to trading changed.

Disclaimer: I recently became a WM owner, was a former Sheraton Desert Oasis owner, and have never owned Marriott, but would own Marriott under the right circumstances.


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## mcow2011 (Jul 29, 2011)

Mayble said:


> I recently joined Tug while researching timeshares online. Before finding Tug I didn't know all these timeshare options existed.  While researching I learned of Worldmark, I was originally considering Wyndham.  I'm really intrigued about the Worldmark system. I really love the idea it's strong trader and I can stay at different places including Marriott, Hilton etc.  I live in Ontario, Canada (one hour from Niagara Falls), obviously not many resort options available to me within driving distance.  Has anyone who doesn't live in the west coast purchased Worldmark and how has it worked out for you?  Also, it seems you can’t give Wyndham timeshares away and yet Worldmark still has a decent resale value and low maintenance fees compared to other timeshares.



I own both Marriott and Worldmark. I am able to trade into some of the Wyndhams and even get some at 30% off their current rates for short stays. I can't tell you much about Wyndham but I can say that Wordmark has been a bargain.

If you live near any of the places you can book bonus time and sometimes they run specials for booking various resorts at discounted rates. I have used WM to book several family reunions and have loved their resorts. While not as elegant as a Marriott, Worldmarks are very nice and the newer resorts do have presidential stuites that rival Marriotts for a higher price of course. 

WM is MUCH easier to use than Marriott. WM points system is very flexible and the variety and number of resorts make it VERY valuable for trading. Searching using Interval International is a breeze. You can search using a 3 bedroom exchange power and then only get charged for a two bedroom unit when your exchange request is found if that is what you are looking for. 

I have also used WM waitlist feature and so far have gotten EVERY waitlist requested, I think four of them.

Marriotts do have an advantage for trading into other Marriotts for the first 25 days but after that WM rules the exchanges.

You can always borrow more points to go anywhere if you don't have enough points left in your account. 

I have been able to use WM for trades into other Marriotts in PRIME Summer months for Southern CA.

You can't go wrong with WM or Marriott system as long as you BUY them correctly from sellers who want out at huge discounts.

The reason WM holds its value better than most other timeshares is because of their system i.e. number of resorts you can use, varied locations, and also their trading power. Too many other timeshares are limited to only one or a handful of areas. As long as Wyndham leaves a good thing alone WM will continue to be a great value.

I would HIGHLY recommend buying into WM. If you shop around you will find some 6,000 point contracts selling for .30 to .40 per point or $1,800 to $2,400.


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