# Interval International monitors Redweek for [prohibited] renting of exchanged weeks



## gblotter (Jan 27, 2015)

This point may have been discussed in other threads, but it bears repeating.

Interval International monitors redweek.com for illegal renting of exchanged weeks.

I own a week at Ko'Olina. I also obtained a good II exchange for a second Ko'Olina week.

My intention is to occupy the exchanged week and rent out my owned week for profit.

An Interval International sleuth noticed my Redweek rental ad and locked down my II account along with a threat for even more consequences.

After explaining my intention to occupy the exchanged week and rent out the owned week, my II account was unlocked. Interval thinks they are being tricky in catching the cheaters, but they are not sophisticated enough to understand the nuances of a situation like mine unless you explain it to them.

Word of Advice: If you are posting a Redweek rental ad, it is best to NOT use a Redweek ID that is easily associated with your own name (like gblotter - hahah).

I intend to change my Redweek ID to avoid the II problem of 'the man who knew too little' in the future.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 27, 2015)

You're the second TUGger to report that exact situation of getting your II account suspended because you had both an owned Week and an II exchange for the same interval, and had the owned Week on Redweek for rent.  Here's a recent post from Saintsfan talking about it; I believe it happened to him quite a while ago.

I'm glad II puts at least a minimum effort into trying to catch rentals that are against their rules, but it stinks that you and others who aren't breaking the rules get "caught" and have to deal with the hassle.


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## geekette (Jan 27, 2015)

Please note that renting is not illegal.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 27, 2015)

geekette said:


> Please note that renting is not illegal.



??  II's rules prohibit rentals of exchanges and Getaways obtained through them.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 27, 2015)

geekette said:


> Please note that renting is not illegal.



It most certainly is illegal. You are probably referring to a violation of criminal law, but illegal is also a correct term for a violation of civil law. Renting an exchange is indisputably a violation of civil law because it is very clearly spelled out in the terms and conditions.

In short it is not criminal, but it is still illegal.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 27, 2015)

gblotter said:


> This point may have been discussed in other threads, but it bears repeating.
> 
> Interval International monitors redweek.com for illegal renting of exchanged weeks.
> 
> ...



This happened to me to a "T". What I now do if I am renting the same week that I have an exchange for is I send a notice to II's loss prevention department so they know in advance. I have offered them proof that I also own the same week as my exchange but they have never wanted me to send it.


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## gmarine (Jan 27, 2015)

Several years ago I had my II account suspended on suspicion of renting a DVC exchange on EBAY. It wasnt my unit up for rent but it took a couple days to straighten out and it was clear that II does at times act on the rental of exchanges.


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## sjsharkie (Jan 27, 2015)

geekette said:


> Please note that renting is not illegal.



Renting is not illegal, but it is against the rules.

I would also not describe it as illegal, but i can understand Saintsfan's point of view.

The terms are between two parties -- you and Interval.  By breaching the terms, you have not have complied with the rules for which there are consequences.  There are remedies that Interval can take (like banning your account) that could be upheld in a court of law.  (It would likely never get there in part because I'm betting there is an arbitration clause in the terms somewhere.)

However, I typically do not describe a contract breach as illegal.  Companies and individuals breach contract terms all of the time, and I don't think it is considered illegal by most.

It all boils down to your definition and interpretation of "illegal".

-ryan


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 27, 2015)

> illegal
> 
> adjective
> 1. forbidden by law or statute.
> 2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.:



I understand most people only think of the term "illegal" in the sense of general wrongdoing as something only classified as a criminal act. It's obviously a term very widely used in sports, which usually has fer less potential consequences than a breach of contract. But in the end something contrary to either criminal or civil law is by the very definition "illegal".

But not to be argumentative on the definition of a word. Most of us know it's a breach of the terms to rent exchanges but it won't land you in jail.

As far as going to court over a banned account. If II went so far as to permanently ban an account and confiscated all deposits and exchanges, the account owner would likely have no leg to stand on. II doesn't run around banning accounts. If someone is doing something they are not supposed to they will let them know and give them plenty of opportunity to rectify with little to no penalty. If someone is running an obvious large scale rental business I don't know if II would be as kind, but I also don't know if they need to be.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jan 27, 2015)

We had a very similar circumstance - - we had multiple units reserved for owner/family members at our Home Resort, and we were going to occupy our exchange week, and rent one of our Home Resort weeks on RedWeek. Until.......in walked some accusatory, animal from Interval International, who clearly is accustomed to playing with low level punks, who are unwilling to challenge his outrageous accusations. Since it appears that that animal is still at Interval International, and (false) promises and assurances by his leadership to change the way that he does business are apparently unfulfilled, I believe the only recourse left is to file formal complaints with the (Florida) state body that regulates Interval International:

Kevin Stanfield, Director
Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes
1940 North Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Phone: 850.488.1122


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## chriskre (Jan 27, 2015)

I wish RCI would police those DVC rentals on ebay and Redweek.


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## gblotter (Jan 28, 2015)

EducatedConsumer said:
			
		

> Until.......in walked some accusatory, animal from Interval International, who clearly is accustomed to playing with low level punks, who are unwilling to challenge his outrageous accusations.


Hahah - sounds like you had the same reaction to this guy as I did.

I got in his face during our phone conversation because I didn't appreciate his accusatory attitude.  He backed down and even apologized for making a mistake by locking my II account.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2015)

Quote:
illegal

adjective
1. forbidden by law or statute.
2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: 
=====================================
This definition of "illegal" clearly does NOT cover the renting of an II exchange.  The key here is "official" rules and regulations, not private rules.  For example, violation of an SEC regulation is illegal, violation of a private contract (or frequent flyer program rules, e.g.) is not.  Something does not need to be illegal in order to result in penalties.  This is Law School 101.  Any other lawyers out there disagree?


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## TUGBrian (Jan 28, 2015)

when I read definition 2...it certainly describes the policy to a tee.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 28, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> Quote:
> illegal
> 
> adjective
> ...



A violation of an SEC regulation would be a criminal act, would it not? I am referring to a violation of civil law, which covers civil agreements. Something contrary to civil law is still "illegal", as in against civil law. It's what the word means. Contrary to legal. 

We could say tort, but who uses that except a lawyer. "Illegal" is a general term and not really a technical legal term. Again it's just a word. We all know the rules and potential consequences of breaking those rules.


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## ilene13 (Jan 28, 2015)

I gave always followed the II rule.  I have never rented out an exchange.  I happen to know someone who does it all the time and has never been caught.   I keep warning him but to no avail.  I will once again tell him that II is monitoring.


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## gmarine (Jan 28, 2015)

chriskre said:


> I wish RCI would police those DVC rentals on ebay and Redweek.



I have found that if you report them to the CEO of RCI, Geoff Ballotti, RCI will take action to shut them down.  I imagine the more complaints they get the quicker they take action.


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## nokaoi9 (Jan 28, 2015)

Same thing happened to me, also a Ko Olina week.  I had a 2BR week listed, and was able to secure a 2BR in exchange for my 1BR through II.  

When I contacted II, they were friendly enough.  The only thing I was told was that they would not let me add a guest certificate on the exchanged week, which was a non issue since we were going to be using the exchanged week.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 28, 2015)

nokaoi9 said:


> When I contacted II, they were friendly enough.  The only thing I was told was that *they would not let me add a guest certificate* on the exchanged week, which was a non issue since we were going to be using the exchanged week.



That is silly although it had no effect on you. I was not told this when it happened to me, but it wouldn't have affected me either. If you offer proof that you own the same week as the exchange, and that's what you are renting out, the ability to add a GC shouldn't be taken away.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> when I read definition 2...it certainly describes the policy to a tee.



Huh?  Clearly not.

The word "official' does NOT include a business rule of a private business.  Nice to see so many armchair lawyers out there who are proud of their expertise. 

As an analogy, if TUG has a rule that a member does not obey, TUG can impose sanctions but the violation of rules is not "illegal".  Same with II rules.  A violation of private rules, yes. Illegal, no.  Illegal is a violation of a law and can be enforced by the government.  No government body can take action against a violator of a private contract.  Only a party to the business deal or contract can do that.  A court or arbitrator can settle a private civil dispute, but only when an action is brought by one of the parties.


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## Fasttr (Jan 28, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> Huh?  Clearly not.
> 
> The word "official' does NOT include a business rule of a private business.  Nice to see so many armchair lawyers out there who are proud of their expertise.
> 
> As an analogy, if TUG has a rule that a member does not obey, TUG can impose sanctions but the violation of rules is not "illegal".  Same with II rules.  A violation of private rules, yes. Illegal, no.  Illegal is a violation of a law and can be enforced by the government.  No government body can take action against a violator of a private contract.  Only a party to the business deal or contract can do that.  A court or arbitrator can settle a private civil dispute, but only when an action is brought by one of the parties.



Perhaps this is what is confusing all of us non lawyer types....and this came from the greatest source of all Wikipedia.  



> A contract is a legally-enforceable promise or set of promises made by one party to another. A contract is a legally binding agreement concerning a bargain which is essentially commercial in its nature and involves the sale or hire of commodities such as goods, services or land.



That sure has the word legal in it a lot.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 28, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> Huh?  Clearly not.
> 
> The word "official' does NOT include a business rule of a private business.  Nice to see so many armchair lawyers out there who are proud of their expertise.
> 
> As an analogy, if TUG has a rule that a member does not obey, TUG can impose sanctions but the violation of rules is not "illegal".  Same with II rules.  A violation of private rules, yes. Illegal, no.  Illegal is a violation of a law and can be enforced by the government.  No government body can take action against a violator of a private contract.  Only a party to the business deal or contract can do that.  A court or arbitrator can settle a private civil dispute, but only when an action is brought by one of the parties.



You really aren't making any sense. The definition of the word "illegal" is not limited to only acts prosecuted in a criminal court. The word has a general meaning and it is used all over the place, especially in sports. 

It is just a word but the meaning is far more broad than you are trying to make it out to be.

How many times do people mention on tug that an ebay real estate auction is not legally binding? Did you think that statement meant not criminally binding?

Lastly, how does the word "official" not include private or public businesses? Is an officer only a government official?


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## sjsharkie (Jan 28, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You really aren't making any sense. The definition of the word "illegal" is not limited to only acts prosecuted in a criminal court. The word has a general meaning and it is used all over the place, especially in sports.



I tend to agree with Bocaboy.  I work in compliance and deal with contracts on a regular basis.  We would never refer to a breach of contract terms as illegal -- it is more often communicated as a breach of terms or not meeting contractual obligations.  (Your earlier post referring to a tort is correct, but I don't even hear our corporate legal team using that term with regularity.)

It depends where you sourced your definition from.  I agree more with the Merriam-Webster full definition:



> Full Definition of ILLEGAL
> :  not according to or authorized by law :  unlawful, illicit; also :  not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)



Again, I see your point, but I just don't see it used that way in practice.  But I think we are all straying from the actual topic here 

-ryan


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Folks - isn't this just "semantics" since this is not a legal proceeding?

I think that everyone understands the _common use_ of the word "illegal" in this context.


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## sjsharkie (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Folks - isn't this just "semantics" since this is not a legal proceeding?
> 
> I think that everyone understands the _common use_ of the word "illegal" in this context.



Yes, but then this thread would have been so much shorter and less interesting... :rofl:


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2015)

sjsharkie said:


> ...But I think we are all straying from the actual topic here
> 
> -ryan



Exactly.  

I'm not a lawyer.  If lawyers want to tell me that using "illegal" in the context it's being used here is semantically incorrect, I'm okay with taking their word for it.

But, we should all agree that nobody in this thread has meant to say that II can have a Member arrested for breaking II's rule that prohibits renting of exchanges/Getaways by Members.  Please, let's re-focus.  Thanks.


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Bless you, Sue, for putting the lawyers (and armchair lawyers) out of their misery…   :rofl:


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Have you ever had Dannon Greek Strawberry Cheese Cake yogurt?  

I'm eating some and it is so YUMMMMMMMY!


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## Fasttr (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Have you ever had Dannon Greek Strawberry Cheese Cake yogurt?
> 
> I'm eating some and it is so YUMMMMMMMY!



Is that actually made in Greece?


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Have you ever had Dannon Greek Strawberry Cheese Cake yogurt?
> 
> I'm eating some and it is so YUMMMMMMMY!



You're good.  I just ate a handful of Cheez-Its and two Ghirardelli caramel squares.


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## sjsharkie (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Have you ever had Dannon Greek Strawberry Cheese Cake yogurt?
> 
> I'm eating some and it is so YUMMMMMMMY!



What is the definition of Greek yogurt and are we using it in the right context here?


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## Joe33426 (Jan 28, 2015)

Let me preface and say that I'm not an attorney, but I think that not abiding by II rules is not an illegal act, but rather not following the rules, which could have bad implications if someone wanted to continue to trade with Interval.

Now, offering the rental of a timeshare interval that isn't yours to rent, seems like it would be fraud.  And I think that committing fraud is probably an illegal act.


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Joe - have you had Strawberry Cheese Cake Greek yogurt?  Nonfat - only 80 calories!


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> You're good.  I just ate a handful of Cheez-Its and two Ghirardelli caramel squares.



I also had a peanut butter sandwich (on toast - no jelly) and carrot sticks.  Since I retired I'm trying to eat healthier breakfasts and lunches.


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## davidvel (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Have you ever had Dannon Greek Strawberry Cheese Cake yogurt?
> 
> I'm eating some and it is so YUMMMMMMMY!


That stuff is so good it should be *illegal.* :hysterical:


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I also had a peanut butter sandwich (on toast - no jelly) and carrot sticks.  Since I retired I'm trying to eat healthier breakfasts and lunches.



I did three hours of shoveling earlier AND learned how to tame the snowblower beast.  I have EARNED a few illegal snacks!


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You really aren't making any sense. The definition of the word "illegal" is not limited to only acts prosecuted in a criminal court. The word has a general meaning and it is used all over the place, especially in sports.


 



sjsharkie said:


> It depends where you sourced your definition from. I agree more with the Merriam-Webster full definition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Professional footbal: "Illegal procedure", "illegal use of hands", etc. Examples of acts that violate official rules established within a sport. Maybe if II reincorporated as the IIFL and we members had to hurdle or tackle other members in order to obtain our exchanges, it would magically become legitimate to refer to rules violations as "illegal".


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I did three hours of shoveling earlier AND learned how to tame the snowblower beast.  I have EARNED a few illegal snacks!



Definitely - My DH does not allow me to play with his power tools.  Oh darn!


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> Professional footbal: "Illegal procedure", "illegal use of hands", etc. Examples of acts that violate official rules established within a sport. Maybe if II reincorporated as the IIFL and we members had to hurdle or tackle other members in order to obtain our exchanges, it would magically become legitimate to refer to rules violations as "illegal".



"Rental-gate."  The royalties will be mine.


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## silentg (Jan 28, 2015)

Why do they have time to police Red Week and take so long to put my deposit in the space bank? Resorts blame RCI for delays, RCI blames resorts. I have 2 resorts that do this every time. My fees are paid, but they still make me wait!!


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## Fasttr (Jan 28, 2015)

This thread is almost as informative and on topic as THIS great thread from the past, containing 7 pages and 171 thought provoking posts.


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

silentg said:


> Why do they have time to police Red Week and take so long to put my deposit in the space bank? Resorts blame RCI for delays, RCI blames resorts. I have 2 resorts that do this every time. My fees are paid, but they still make me wait!!



I'm sorry, but this thread is about Interval International, and Strawberry Cheese Cake Greek Yogurt.


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Beefnot - what are your thoughts on Greek Yogurt?


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## Beefnot (Jan 28, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Beefnot - what are your thoughts on Greek Yogurt?


 
I have no comments on greek yogurt.  Is it illegal not to capitalize the "g"?


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Yes, my apologies - don't turn me in, k?


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> This thread is almost as informative and on topic as THIS great thread from the past, containing 7 pages and 171 thought provoking posts.



One of my favorite TUG threads!


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## Sicnarf (Jan 28, 2015)

Isn't it beneficial for RCI not to enforce this rule as they probably collect more fees in terms of exchange fee and guest fee?  Or it's more beneficial to enforce it since they can sell the unused weeks as getaways and get more income from it?


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## DeniseM (Jan 28, 2015)

Sicnarf said:


> Isn't it beneficial for RCI not to enforce this rule as they probably collect more fees in terms of exchange fee and guest fee?  Or it's more beneficial to enforce it since they can sell the unused weeks as getaways and get more income from it?



Just to clarify - this happened with II, not RCI, although RCI does have the same rule.


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## davidvel (Jan 28, 2015)

And don't forget is ILLEGAL to talk politics,  religion,  and other social issues on TUG.


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## GreenTea (Jan 29, 2015)

I really wish I'd come here BEFORE BUYING Chobani pineapple yogurt.  While it will be good, if I'd known all this information before going into the grocery store hungry, I might have gotten the Dannon Strawberry Cheesecake.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 29, 2015)

I noticed the term is now "prohibited".






Seriously? Prohibited?

prohibited
1. To forbid by authority:
2. To prevent; preclude:

Renting an exchange is not prohibited. II is not an authoritative body. They also do not prevent exchange rentals. They sometimes try, but people do it successfully all the time.

Not the right word people.


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## DeniseM (Jan 29, 2015)

Saintsfanfl - do you like Greek Yogurt?


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 29, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Saintsfanfl - do you like Greek Yogurt?



Yes but I haven't found any that is lactose free.


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## Beefnot (Jan 29, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I noticed the term is now "prohibited".
> 
> 
> Seriously? Prohibited?
> ...


 
Let's think about the Prohibition.  The sell of alcohol was "prohibited".  Figures like Al Capone and and Lucky Thompson did quite well for themselves for quite awhile.

And the IIFL is indeed an authoritative body for those players who elect to join.  "Prohibited", "illegal", tomatah tomahta.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 29, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> Let's think about the Prohibition.  The sell of alcohol was "prohibited".  Figures like Al Capone and and Lucky Thompson did quite well for themselves for quite awhile.
> 
> And the IIFL is indeed an authoritative body for those players who elect to join.  "Prohibited", "illegal", tomatah tomahta.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 29, 2015)




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## b2bailey (Jan 29, 2015)

I just have to say the yogurt undercurrent in this thread has made me laugh out loud a couple of times. Thx.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 29, 2015)

Gifffs!!! Uh oh. I dislike gifs more than I dislike renting exchanges...

I have no comment on the legality, illegality, prohibition, or allowance of renting exchanges.

I also don't like Greek Yogurt except in these pancakes. REAL Maple Syrup makes them delicious.


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## billymach4 (Jan 29, 2015)

I tell you what! These days Greek Yogurt is all the rage. Not only does Costco sell plain Greek Yogurt, the sell a 15 pack of mixed flavors in 6 oz containers. Not those knock off 5.3 oz containers. 

Those 5.3 oz containers should be illegal! I clearly remember when individual yogurt was sold in 8 oz containers. I wish Costco would package the individual containers in 8 oz . I don't care if it costs a few $$ more. 

What do these yogurt manufacturers think we are stupid! Clearly if you make a smaller container package , and you maintain the price point then you are paying more $$. 

They all should go to jail for fraudulent illegal activity! Thieves!


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 29, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I also don't like Greek Yogurt except in these pancakes. REAL Maple Syrup makes them delicious.



Dude. I am lying in bed almost asleep and now I want to get up and make breakfast. Thanks. :annoyed::zzz:

Payback for the gif I guess. But come on. It's Ron Burgundy??


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## camachinist (Jan 30, 2015)

Given the couple hundred rental ads for my resort running at any time on Redweek, and the scores of brokers and rental agents and resellers trolling there, I'm sure II will have both an interesting task and a field day. Lately, there has been a spate of supposed members who inquire about my intervals then go completely dead once provided with my rental agreement and copy of reservation. In years past this was rare to never. At worst, they'd respond and say they found a better deal or did something else. Coincidence? TBH, between the resellers and trolls, I've turned to Craigslist. At least there I don't have to pay to be trolled.


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