# Point at Poipu 2017 maintenance fees



## wilma (Nov 1, 2016)

I received the maintenance fee bill for 2017 and it does not include any water intrusion fees. Does this mean all the the water intrusion fees have been collected and we don't owe any more money?


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## artringwald (Nov 1, 2016)

Correct! The payments were originally scheduled for 2012-2014. After the lawsuit was settled, the revised schedule was 2012-2016. Last year was the last payment. :whoopie: The project is coming in about 8% over budget, but the reserves will cover the difference without a new assessment. The MF's went up (of course), but by less than 4%. They're blaming it on higher property taxes, but I see that the management fees paid to DRI went up 4% too.


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## wilma (Nov 1, 2016)

Thanks, now we just have to deal with the new development next door.


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## artringwald (Nov 1, 2016)

wilma said:


> Thanks, now we just have to deal with the new development next door.



I thought it odd that they didn't even mention it in the cover letter for the MF invoice.


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## youppi (Nov 24, 2016)

What is the MF this year for the 2 bdrm ? Last year it was $1688.73
Thanks


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## artringwald (Nov 24, 2016)

youppi said:


> What is the MF this year for the 2 bdrm ? Last year it was $1688.73
> Thanks


It's $1,755.10 if you subtract the optional ARDA-ROC Voluntary Contribution.


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## youppi (Nov 24, 2016)

deeded week is still the best


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## artringwald (Nov 24, 2016)

youppi said:


> deeded week is still the best
> View attachment 2955


You are absolutely right! Float/float deeded weeks allow booking oceanfront, and they're currently selling for under $4000. I believe buying enough points from DRI to book oceanfront would cost over $60,000.


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## DanZale2000 (Nov 24, 2016)

artringwald said:


> You are absolutely right! Float/float deeded weeks allow booking oceanfront, and they're currently selling for under $4000. I believe buying enough points from DRI to book oceanfront would cost over $60,000.



Resale points are less then $4,000. Would they be a good choice or is the float deed a better option?


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## artringwald (Nov 24, 2016)

DanZale2000 said:


> Resale points are less then $4,000. Would they be a good choice or is the float deed a better option?


It's a mixed bag. PROS: You can often find people giving away resale points. Points give you a great deal of flexibility. You can book a variety of places, and for any number of days. Booking is easy online. CONS: Resale points can only be used within their home collection/trust. The CLUB membership which allows you to book any DRI resort, is not transferable with resale points. When you no longer want the ownership, points are difficult to get rid of. As youppi's excellent chart shows. your maintenance fees are a great deal higher with points.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 9, 2016)

Your not telling the whole story. A deeded week is tied to a specific unit and week. Make sure your happy with that week and unit. That's all your legally entitled to. 
I own a lot of points and am selling my weeks. I only own in Hawaii because there are only three places in the world where timeshare is limited and has been bought back for more then it was sold. 
Maui is one of them.


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## artringwald (Dec 9, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Your not telling the whole story. A deeded week is tied to a specific unit and week. Make sure your happy with that week and unit. That's all your legally entitled to.
> I own a lot of points and am selling my weeks. I only own in Hawaii because there are only three places in the world where timeshare is limited and has been bought back for more then it was sold.
> Maui is one of them.


There are some fixed week/fixed unit timeshares, but they are rare. Most are floating week and floating view category or floating week and fixed view category. The deed specifies the kind of usage. In Hawaii, the deed also specifies a week and unit number, even when it's a float/float. I believe that's required by law to prevent developers from overselling what's actually available.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 9, 2016)

Correct.  However if a company goes BK that is the week and Unit you are legally entitled to.  
I work in real estate so I am 95% that is accurate  



artringwald said:


> There are some fixed week/fixed unit timeshares, but they are rare. Most are floating week and floating view category or floating week and fixed view category. The deed specifies the kind of usage. In Hawaii, the deed also specifies a week and unit number, even when it's a float/float. I believe that's required by law to prevent developers from overselling what's actually available.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 10, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Your not telling the whole story. A deeded week is tied to a specific unit and week. Make sure your happy with that week and unit. That's all your legally entitled to.
> I own a lot of points and am selling my weeks. I only own in Hawaii because there are only three places in the world where timeshare is limited and has been bought back for more then it was sold.
> Maui is one of them.


What nonsense!!!

If you read the covenants attached to your deed, you will find it explicitly stated that the owner of the deed has *NO *reservation right to the unit and week in the deed. None.  Nada, Zip.  The unit and week is identified only for inventory control purposes.

As a deeded owner, the only thing that counts is what reservation category is attached to the deed.  The owner of the deed is then allowed to make reservations based on the category assigned to the deed.  At Point at Poipu (and ignoring the 1-bedroom and 3-bedroom units) that means that the deed will either be unrestricted (aka, "float-float"), ocean front, ocean view, partial ocean view, or garden view.  The owner of the deed can make any reservation for any available unit that is consistent with the reservation right attached to the deed.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 10, 2016)

Bankruptcy laws and private clubs are very unique. Make sure the bankruptcy court allowed that in. 
Because real estate laws In Hawaii are very strange. 
I am positive, that legally all you own is that week and unit. The club allows it to float. If you don't join the club then they have no obligation to honor a previous clubs rules. 

It's happened to me. It's why I sold my weeks.

If I am incorrect please show me that documentation. I have never seen it. Never seen it once! I have asked everyone. 

Thanks.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 10, 2016)

I am also confused on this chart. 
If you use the upgrade the maintenance is 400 dollars less and you get an additional 4,000 points to use. 

What am I missing on this Poipu chart.


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## artringwald (Dec 10, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> Bankruptcy laws and private clubs are very unique. Make sure the bankruptcy court allowed that in.
> Because real estate laws In Hawaii are very strange.
> I am positive, that legally all you own is that week and unit. The club allows it to float. If you don't join the club then they have no obligation to honor a previous clubs rules.
> 
> ...



The DRI Club has nothing to do with float/float units. I have three deeded weeks. One is in the Club so I can use points to stay at any DRI resort worldwide. I also have two deeded weeks that are not in the Club. They are both float/float. I can use them to book oceanfront views any time of the year, but just at the Point at Poipu. If I wanted to book other locations, I could exchange them through RCI or Interval International. Here's what's in the deed registered with the State of Hawaii:








The 04-404-44 refers to the building #, unit #, and week. The Unit Rights say I can use it for any unit and any week, subject to availability. FYI, the deed is on public record and accessible to anybody. Before I buy, I like to get a copy of the deed to verify the information.


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## artringwald (Dec 10, 2016)

bradfordHI said:


> I am also confused on this chart.
> If you use the upgrade the maintenance is 400 dollars less and you get an additional 4,000 points to use.
> 
> What am I missing on this Poipu chart.



Let me explain the chart this way. Suppose, like me, you want to book 7 days, oceanfront, every year at the Poipu at Poipu. What would it cost in MF and points for 2017:
1) Own a deeded week, not in the Club = $1,755.10
2) Own 15,500 points in the Hawaii Collection, but do not have Club Membership = $2937.43 plus 15,500 points.
3) Own 11,500 points in the Hawaii Collection, and have Club Membership = $2504.43 plus 11,500 points, plus $126 for the ocean view to ocean front upgrade.

I like the flexibility and ease of booking with Club points, but when you want to stay in the same place every year, it makes no sense to buy points. You can get deeded weeks or resale points almost for free for options 1) or 2). Buying points from DRI so you can get Club membership costs thousands and thousands of dollars for option 3).


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## bradfordHI (Dec 10, 2016)

Yes I have seen that. But when they were bought, that document represents the old club not the new one. 

It doesn't apply to Diamond or anyone else who buys that property.  

If anyone knows the correct answer please let us know. Your association was from 95. That association no longer exists. 
Therefore my understanding of real estate law says the new owner can change it and legally only has to give you that unit. 

It's not floating. I have had this happen 2 times. 
When a new company comes in they can do whatever they want. It's why I sold my fixed weeks. Which is what you legally have. The club allows you to float it. That club agreement isn't around anymore. 

Who would you complain too. 

I am very concerned and confused. 

Thanks. 



QUOTE="artringwald, post: 1949600, member: 52084"]The DRI Club has nothing to do with float/float units. I have three deeded weeks. One is in the Club so I can use points to stay at any DRI resort worldwide. I also have two deeded weeks that are not in the Club. They are both float/float. I can use them to book oceanfront views any time of the year, but just at the Point at Poipu. If I wanted to book other locations, I could exchange them through RCI or Interval International. Here's what's in the deed registered with the State of Hawaii:

View attachment 3026
View attachment 3025

The 04-404-44 refers to the building #, unit #, and week. The Unit Rights say I can use it for any unit and any week, subject to availability. FYI, the deed is on public record and accessible to anybody. Before I buy, I like to get a copy of the deed to verify the information.[/QUOTE]
Ok


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## artringwald (Dec 10, 2016)

I am not a member of a collection. The rules of the collections may be completely different, and may indeed change over time. But keep in mind that DRI does not own the property, they are just management company. The Home Owners Association and the deeded owners are the ones that really own the property. Theoretically, the HOA could fire DRI and hire somebody else to manage the property. That will never happen because now DRI's Hawaii Collection holds more than 50% of the deeds. But regardless of who owners the deeds, they are governed by the rules set forth when the association was formed in 2004, and the rules are clearly stated in the deeds recorded with the state.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 11, 2016)

I read it. And I still don't see what you are referring to. I am glad I sold that deed because I am no longer having any issues.  
They control the board and club so I still maintain that all they are legally obligated to is the unit and week. My documents which I gave to my attorney confirmed it. It's a fixed week. 

I wish you the best but I am not going to be on the hook for any assessments and when it's sold out I do want a specific week. 
I am a realist. Are their any resale floating weeks available for that property? 
I haven't found one. Because they don't exist. 
If you find one let me know. Until I do see a floating week being sold, then I'm glad I sold mine.  

I think your too optimistic about it. Your docs are no longer valid. Check with your attorney.  
Good luck.


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## bradfordHI (Dec 11, 2016)

I hope it works for you but I had my attorney re read it.  The new management is allowing you to float. 
They do not have to allow it. 

Think about it from their side. They are Biklionairs and they don't care about us. We will be stuck to that unit and week. 

Yes we can exchange it. But it's a fixed week. 


QUOTE="bradfordHI, post: 1949613, member: 89867"]Yes I have seen that. But when they were bought, that document represents the old club not the new one.

It doesn't apply to Diamond or anyone else who buys that property. 

If anyone knows the correct answer please let us know. Your association was from 95. That association no longer exists.
Therefore my understanding of real estate law says the new owner can change it and legally only has to give you that unit.

It's not floating. I have had this happen 2 times.
When a new company comes in they can do whatever they want. It's why I sold my fixed weeks. Which is what you legally have. The club allows you to float it. That club agreement isn't around anymore.

Who would you complain too.

I am very concerned and confused.

Thanks.



QUOTE="artringwald, post: 1949600, member: 52084"]The DRI Club has nothing to do with float/float units. I have three deeded weeks. One is in the Club so I can use points to stay at any DRI resort worldwide. I also have two deeded weeks that are not in the Club. They are both float/float. I can use them to book oceanfront views any time of the year, but just at the Point at Poipu. If I wanted to book other locations, I could exchange them through RCI or Interval International. Here's what's in the deed registered with the State of Hawaii:

View attachment 3026
View attachment 3025

The 04-404-44 refers to the building #, unit #, and week. The Unit Rights say I can use it for any unit and any week, subject to availability. FYI, the deed is on public record and accessible to anybody. Before I buy, I like to get a copy of the deed to verify the information.[/QUOTE]
Ok[/QUOTE]


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## OldGuy (May 19, 2019)

I googled _The Point at Poipu, _this morning to see how their problems worked out, and to see what their maintenance fee is, just out of curiosity because we really enjoyed our stay there back when it was EVR at Poipu.

I clicked on "Website", and was surprised to see it went directly to a "Diamond Hotel" rental page.

I know people pay it nowadays, but it's hard for me to fathom $2000 maintenance fees (anywhere), not to mention the special assessments there.

I guess we've always timeshared the way we were promised, sorta, on the cheap.  We were there back in the day when what we were able to book was the Makai Club.  Then, a couple days before we got on the plane I saw that Lawai Beach Club became available in that old 10-day window, so I paid another exchange fee and switched to it for the first week.  DW was happy, except, she said, if we could get the second week at EVR that would be nice.  It popped up, and we did.

It's like it was yesterday, but it was 20 years ago this December.


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