# A&K



## TarheelTraveler

Thought I'd respond to AKTHUE's questions in a separate thread:

Tarheel, can you give a short summary of A&K for those who may be contemplating life after UE?

Members own the portfolio of houses without debt that they've purchased through a Del. non-profit corporation (100% member owned).  A&K owns 5 or 6 properties and lets the Residence Club use such properties.  Equity member contributions are added to a capital account.  Once capital account reaches a sufficient level to buy the house debt free, the house is purchased by the member's corporation.  A&K owns the management co.  Members elect representatives to the actual Board of Directors (not just an advisory board).  Members can fire A&K as manager by a vote of the membership when the management contract is up for renewal.  

Structural info. is here:
http://www.akresidenceclub.com/club-structure.aspx


Where are the locations, sizes, quality?

http://www.akresidenceclub.com/tour-homes-and-villas.aspx for residence locations
http://www.akresidenceclub.com/global-map-search-destinations.aspx for other travel options
Only disadvantage that I've found with A&K (as compared to other DCs) is fewer residence locations.  Of course, they've got much better overall travel options that other DCs.

Don't know if this is the case with other DCs, but the houses have all been better than the pictures.  Well maintained and decorated.  Biggest houses are in Cabo and Punta Mita at 6,000+ sq. ft.  Smallest home is in NYC (maybe 1,300 sq. ft.), but the condo does have a two story living room.

What is availability like? Holidays? Principal reservation policies?

Availability has been very good.  I've always gotten my first choice holiday drawing reservation, and while we are planners, we have never had to use any days for mud season in a mountain destination or in a beach location off season.  Over all drawings and all members, 97-99% have gotten one of their top three choices in the holiday reservation.  Membership type comes with one or two holiday lottery slots.  Spring and Fall drawings.

You can book non-holiday reservations up to a year in advance.  No penalty for cancellation if greater than 45 days for a long term reservation.  No penalty if greater than 21 days for a short term reservation.

I thought availability would get worse through the addition of a lot of trial members that have absorbed much of the excess capacity, but so far so good.  Note that there are caps on total occupancy (IIRC 67%) which should leave enough play in the system.  It helps of course that members are also taking the A&K trips and using the A&K European villa leases in the summer.  


Becoming a member - what are the upfront and annual costs? For how many days?
What are the current special offers?

http://www.akresidenceclub.com/pricing-chart.aspx

This pricing is of course down about 30% from the old pricing at the top of the market.  The trial membership offer is over with, and the current special is additional free days: http://www.akresidenceclub.com/equity-savings.aspx 

If this is easily found on the web, please send a pointer, though your own experience and summary may be even more valuable as I'm sure all of us have learned that reality in the DCs differs from the promises.

We've been very happy with the Club, and I believe the membership as a whole to be happy (when I went to the annual meeting, I don't remember any real complaints as an example).  I also like that we've always had audited financials and annual meetings.  Hope this helps.  I'm sure we'll get snarky comments from members of other DCs, but I think it's a lot more telling what the members think.


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## TarheelTraveler

Just as an FYI, A&K is part of the new Ritz-Carlton rewards program.

http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/ritz-carlton-now-offering-perks-for-most-loyal-guests/22446

http://www.elitetraveler.com/news_d...n-hotel-company-launches-luxe-loyalty-program


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## letsgobobby

once you've joined, by how much and how often do the annual dues increase?

Is there a history of the Capital Contribution costs?


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## TarheelTraveler

letsgobobby said:


> once you've joined, by how much and how often do the annual dues increase?
> 
> Is there a history of the Capital Contribution costs?



IIRC, it's 3%/yr.  Anything more requires approval by the members.

I don't have the exact numbers, but from the highest point at launch, the reduction was 40% as the economy cratered and to reflect the declines in real estate values.  Since then, it has increased about 7% IIRC.


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## NeilGoBlue

I believe that is correct and it's not automatic, only if needed.  I don't think they have increased them at all so far.

Remember, with AK the dues are 'real expenses' only. (plus a 15% markup that goes to AK, their profit).

So, the dues would only go up if the ACTUAL expenses of the club go up.  They don't go up just because AK wants to make more money.. AK's profit is set at 15% of the dues.


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## TarheelTraveler

Sorry.  Now in rereading that, I can understand how my post would be confusing.  What NGB noted is correct.  The dues for new members has not gone up since inception.  The 3% is the max. increase, without a member vote.

In fairness to A&K, I don't think that the 15% is all profit.  My understanding is that it is the management fee, and management expenses are paid from the 15%.


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## letsgobobby

Let me make a couple of suppositions.

Suppose we assume A&K will remain viable and solvent indefinitely; that management remains virtuous and transparent; that one can afford the initial capital outlay without jeopardizing liquidity or other long-term financial goals; and that one will use their annual allotment of days to the fullest.

Under those conditions, this seems like it could be a very fair investment.

Let's say one holds this for 30 years, and capital investment increases at the rate of inflation + 1% during that time, a fair expectation for quality real estate in general.

In 30 years, one can sell their membership for 80% of the then current price = P.

[(1.01)^30]*0.8 = 1.08, so you would receive a small real return on your initial purchase. It would be a poor investment given the opportunity cost of that money over 30 years, but what the hey.

The annual fees increase at the rate of inflation more or less, so that's a wash in real terms.

At $1000+ per night you're getting outstanding quality accommodations and the ability to share amongst several family members. If you can usually share with another family to split costs, you're at $500+ per night. Still not cheap, but starting to get into a range where similar accommodations might price out at - like in New York, Italy, etc. If you go 30 or 45 days, the cost per night drops significantly. It becomes pretty appealing at that point.

Am I thinking about this correctly? Or is A&K viewed more properly as pure consumption rather than combined consumption/investment?


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## NeilGoBlue

I used the same logic that you did when I decided to join.  So, yes, I agree.


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## TarheelTraveler

Ditto for me.  I never thought that I would see 10% returns, but I did feel like that over the long haul, I would at least beat the rate of inflation, and enjoy fantastic accomodations along the way.  When we now have to stay at a hotel with the family when traveling outside of the Club, I always wince, even when staying at some very nice hotels.  

I don't know about NGB, but we've used every one of our days since we joined.


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## NeilGoBlue

Absolutely!

Never miss a day. (I'm really happy that I joined at the 15 day plan so that I use every one.  Some people join at 45 days and use 35...


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## Desties

I had never approached clubs other than PE/UE with fresh eyes, so I'll sheepsihly admit that this is the first time I eyed the AK destinations map. It seems like a great club for globetrotters, but why is it so skimpy stateside?

I see just two properties east of the Mississippi -- NYC and Kiawah Island. Even the tiny clubs have properties through Florida or in Stowe or in the Outer Banks. 

Is there any kind of visibility as to where the next wave of properties will be added? Florida seems to be a huge oversight.


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## TarheelTraveler

I agree with you, Desties.  When I think of what negative A&K has compared to other clubs, it would be fewer U.S. residence destinations, particularly on the East Coast that you can drive to.

I'm sure they realize this as A&K did indicate during the member meeting that there would be a new exchange put in place which would add Florida as a destination in the near future and add NYC capacity (assuming I heard that right).


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## letsgobobby

Can you give some insight into how the boutique European hotels are reserved and used? From what i can understand these are accessory to the main program, whose locations are mostly Hawaii, Mexico, western US, NYC, and Kiawah Island; and the European villas.

Is it one night for one night? What type of room (studio, 1 BR, etc)? How does availability work?

Also, how does A&K respond to a 'shared' membership, ie 50/50 membership between 2 immediate family members (father and son, brother and sister, etc)? I suppose we could have a private side contract if they didn't like the idea.

Can you check in/out any day? Is it harder to get short stays (2 days) rather than long days such as 7 days?

Tarheel, are you also a 15 day/yr member?

Thanks for the insiders viewpoints.


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## Kagehitokiri2

so AK can rent the homes that havent been transferred yet?
http://www.akvillas.com/americas/hawaii/


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## NeilGoBlue

They are allowed to for the properties that haven't been 'transferred' into the club.  (they own those properties, since they bought them), but I haven't heard of them doing it till your post.


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## NeilGoBlue

letsgobobby said:


> Can you give some insight into how the boutique European hotels are reserved and used? From what i can understand these are accessory to the main program, whose locations are mostly Hawaii, Mexico, western US, NYC, and Kiawah Island; and the European villas.
> 
> Is it one night for one night? What type of room (studio, 1 BR, etc)? How does availability work?
> 
> Also, how does A&K respond to a 'shared' membership, ie 50/50 membership between 2 immediate family members (father and son, brother and sister, etc)? I suppose we could have a private side contract if they didn't like the idea.
> 
> Can you check in/out any day? Is it harder to get short stays (2 days) rather than long days such as 7 days?
> 
> Tarheel, are you also a 15 day/yr member?
> 
> Thanks for the insiders viewpoints.



My experience of looking at the Boutique hotels is they are not a 'great' deal for using your days.  They are a good addition if you are going to europe a few days early for your Villa trip and want to spend the time in a hotel.  But not a great value.


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## NeilGoBlue

You can check in/out any day of the week. By pure logic it's easier to get a 2 day reservation than a 7 day.  You'll find almost no problem getting reservations for whatever number of days 1 year out... as the time you want gets closer, it progressively gets harder, however, i've been able to travel on any day I want (even 7-21 days out), if i"m flexible on where I go.

So, I've gotten EXACTLY everything I've wanted everytime I've made a reservation a year out.. and various levels of success as the 'date' I want has gotten closer (always find something, not always exactly what I want)

I'm not sure about the shared membership.


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## TarheelTraveler

letsgobobby said:


> Can you give some insight into how the boutique European hotels are reserved and used? From what i can understand these are accessory to the main program, whose locations are mostly Hawaii, Mexico, western US, NYC, and Kiawah Island; and the European villas.
> 
> Is it one night for one night? What type of room (studio, 1 BR, etc)? How does availability work?



The boutique hotels are in addition to the residences.  I suspect that they're upgraded accomodations at those hotels when available, but it is a one night for one night exchange, so I've never seen a whole lot of value for it.  Nonetheless, other members do use that option, most often to add on to villa stays.  My understanding is the hotels are available anytime, so long as the actual hotel has availability.  Same with the A&K travel.  You can pick any A&K trip for any time period.  From a value perspective, to me, the much better value (as opposed to the boutique hotels) is the A&K travel credits which are always a few hundred more than the dues.  Also, a good value are the villa stays.



letsgobobby said:


> Also, how does A&K respond to a 'shared' membership, ie 50/50 membership between 2 immediate family members (father and son, brother and sister, etc)? I suppose we could have a private side contract if they didn't like the idea.



I don't think that's a problem.  To my knowledge, it's not an additional charge for family use, either in upfront or dues costs.  



letsgobobby said:


> Can you check in/out any day? Is it harder to get short stays (2 days) rather than long days such as 7 days?
> 
> Tarheel, are you also a 15 day/yr member?
> 
> Thanks for the insiders viewpoints.



You can check in/check out any day of the week, and I've never noticed a difference in booking shorter stays versus longer stays.  We usually do three full weeks (7-9 days), and then do shorter stays for the rest of our 36 days.  In other words, you go on the reservation calendar and book it, and so whether it's 3 days or 7 days, it doesn't really matter, so long as it's available.  The only disadvantage to doing shorter stays is you have a limited number of long term reservations that you can have at any one time (5 for me), so I tend to book the full weeks first and then use the balance of my long term reservations for short stays and then use my unlimited short-term reservations for short stays.  Sounds complicated, but it's really not.

In answer to Kage's question, that is correct.  Those properties are owned by A&K, and, therefore, rentable by them. They mentioned the rental of those properties owned by them during the annual member call, but I do think they could have been more clear in explaining it.


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## TarheelTraveler

Sorry about the repetition.  I guess it's good that NGB and I have the same understanding about things.  Clearly, I'm slow when trying to figure out how to use multiple quotes.


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## letsgobobby

thanks so much, both of you!

Last question for now, I think: are the villas fully owned by A&K, in other words, are they equivalent operationally in every way to the stateside homes? The website has them separately categorized so it wasn't clear if that was because the arrangement there is somehow 'different.'


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## TarheelTraveler

letsgobobby said:


> thanks so much, both of you!
> 
> Last question for now, I think: are the villas fully owned by A&K, in other words, are they equivalent operationally in every way to the stateside homes? The website has them separately categorized so it wasn't clear if that was because the arrangement there is somehow 'different.'



The European villas are not owned by A&K. They instead are managed through their Villa subsidiary (http://www.akvillas.com/).  However, unlike many leasing companies, they are all inspected and up to A&K standards.  They also have A&K concierge employees available.  In other words, the villas should be up to snuff, but may be somewhat different than the homes in the portfolio.  I haven't done a villa yet, but I remember seeing very detailed brochures which described the amenities.  Two fellow A&K members that I know loved their villa trips.


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## NeilGoBlue

TT is correct regarding villas..


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## NeilGoBlue

*The reason I joined a DC...*

We were in Deer Valley for my 10 year anniversary... I wanted to do something special for my wife... The destination host, Erica, gave me about 20 ideas.  The idea that I picked was to have a dinner in the mountains, prepared by a private chef.. so, I took my wife on a drive, pulled over, and took her on a walk to our private dinner.  It was awesome and all arranged by the destination host.  The views were spectacular and it was fun...and my wife was blown away...

Erica also reccomended that we do a family 'excursion'.   She had a special chef show up at our house in the morning.. he took the whole family mushroom picking.. the kids had a blast, then the chef came back in the evening to prepare us a private dinner with the mushrooms that we had picked.. it was awesome...

Sometimes I think people concentrate too much on the houses, etc and the service was the main reason that I decided to join a DC.  AK has surpassed all my expectations.


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## Kagehitokiri2

and the _value_ of the service.

residential villas at four seasons resorts and amanresorts are not cheap, and metropolitan offerings are rare and even more expensive.

high end travel services, concierges (quintessentially might be only survivor?) etc can also be quite expensive, and often no value consideration whatsoever.

definitely something to compare (all service offerings) between DCs - im amazed that *SFOResident* reported EE sourcing better chefs than Q.

abercrombie and kent is clearly the most experienced in DC industry in hospitality, just not sure how they bring the experience to residence club. (although there is also banyan tree.)

some clubs have properties at hotels/resorts.

ritz carlton service really isnt up there. the only thing they have is the club levels.


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## TarheelTraveler

"A&K Earns Global Vision Award for Philanthropic Travel
Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy received the 2010 Travel + Leisure Global Vision Award for its commitment to harnessing the power of travel to protect the environment, preserve cultures and transform lives. Last year alone, AKP and A&K travellers contributed a total of $1 million to 50 conservation, health and education projects around the world."

http://www.abercrombiekent.com/news...n=AK News&akcmp=EERCL10E&ecrmID=1606&gldy=322


"Abercrombie & Kent Wins Travel + Leisure Global Vision Award
Abercrombie & Kent has received the 2010 Travel + Leisure Global Vision Award for Leadership: Philanthropic Travel. An esteemed panel of judges, including Nobel-prize winning economist Dr. Joseph Stiglitz; model, designer, and goodwill ambassador for the World Health Organization Liya Kebede; and Oscar-winning documentarian (The Cove) Louie Psihoyos recognized Abercrombie & Kent’s support of conservation, health and education causes around the world as the latest and best example of the power of travel as an engine of positive change.

"As one of the world's most respected tour operators, Abercrombie & Kent has been a leading promoter of a simple but extremely important idea: sophisticated travelers giving back. For nearly three decades, Abercrombie & Kent's charitable efforts (supporting everything from black rhino conservation in Kenya to building wells in Cambodia) have expanded alongside its commercial operations.""


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## TarheelTraveler

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index....-Insider/who-wants-to-host-a-billionaire.html

"...The tour, organised by the Hong Kong office of Abercrombie & Kent, one of the world’s leading luxury travel companies, kicked off on November 7 with a brief overnight stay in Phnom Penh, where participants were greeted with a welcome dinner at the National Museum with special guests such as Roland Eng, former Cambodian Ambassador to the US....

"...European, Asian, US and Latin American business tycoons were part of the group, which also included US commercial aristocracy such as Peter Coors and his wife Marilyn. Coors is the chairman of Molson Coors Brewing Company and chairman of MillerCoors. He is the great grandson of the founder of the brewing empire, Adolph Coors, who set up the Golden Brewery in the US 1873.

Multinational media interests were also well represented, including the presence of high-profile American David Zucker. He is a former president and CEO of Playboy Enterprises, and former exec vice president of ESPN. 

Other notables on the tour included Rumi Verjee, founder of Domino’s Pizza in the UK and former owner of Watford Football Club along with Sir Elton John."


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## aisa

*offer*

Got an email that A&K just sent me something by UPS. Bet it is some new offer for UE members finalky......


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## TarheelTraveler

aisa said:


> Got an email that A&K just sent me something by UPS. Bet it is some new offer for UE members finalky......



It would be nice if it provided for continued travel.  Hopefully, you're willing to share what the offer is when you get it.


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## Teddy AK

*The good and the bad*

The downside of the club (coming from a trial member) is the amount of places here in the US and North America...ER and Quintess obviously have more.  And the small amount actually gets smaller when you look at how difficult it is to get to a few of them from certain parts of the country (Read: Idaho).  The Villas are limited in number and in available weeks.

The upside:
The cost for a 30 day plan (if lined up with the ER and Quintess plans) is a little over $150,000 less (not using any discounts) (I added the holiday packages in)

Give me 5 or 6 locations that are great and I don't see the family getting bored for many many years (I play the same golf course over and over again...).  Today, AK has 10 solid locations (multiple houses in a few), at least.

The Villas really are pretty awesome.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the $350 per night fee for 21 day space available nights (instead of using your other nights).  They are simply cheaper and thus better than anything out there.

I understand if I joined a club and was burned (maybe even more than once) how I would be quite hesitant to go back for more.  It would really come down to the need (young kids or a large family to bring, a ton of flexibility and desire to travel) and the stomach for more risk.  If I was seriously thinking about it though, I think AK is one of the better choices because of the equity model (and how conservative they are financially).

I remember having the discussion 10 years ago with my wife about the whole joining a country club decision and she was pointing out how the rounds of golf were cheaper at the nice local course than at the club (using our calculations for how many rounds we would play).  Today, we couldn't go back.  Sometimes the math is less important than the quality of life, and I can assure you that we wouldn’t have gone on as many trips over the last year if those days weren’t sitting there.  And we certainly haven’t regretted a single trip, all were great!

Anyway, I am not sure if any of that is helpful, but I figured I would throw it up.  The $350 per night benefit is really something…especially when you could give it to a sibling, child, or parent to use.


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## NeilGoBlue

We too love the $350 Space Available days.  We use our nights for the tough to get properties and use the $350 for the easier properties.


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## TarheelTraveler

Spot on observations, Teddy AK.  I genuinely feel like the AKRC is the total package, EXCEPT for the number of residence locations.  Sure, it absolutely helps to have the A&K travel and villa credit programs and the RC exchange, but the number of residence locations is the one negative that I see.

The only other thing IMHO that could be a negative depending on your perspective is they're so darn conservative.  When you're a DC member and you see all these other clubs doing mergers, making aggressive offers to land new members and other deals, you do sometimes think shouldn't my club be doing this.  In the end and with the benefit of hindsight, those conservative financial decisions do look better and better.

The $350/night space available pricing is really good.  I looked at January's availability the other day, and there were 12 or 13 destinations still with good availability (and almost all were ones that you'd want to go to (not Kiawah in January)).


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## Kagehitokiri2

surprisingly, AK is the only one to actually have a meaningful debt cap (5%)

(luxus/rocksure have 0 debt, but are barebones)


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## TarheelTraveler

Kiawah voted top residence by A&K RC members:

http://www.fractionallife.com/news_...ination_for_abercrombie__kent_members1354.asp

Also - 
"Abercrombie & Kent (A&K) was voted "World's Best Luxury Tour Operator" and "Best Africa Tour Operator" for the seventh consecutive year by travel professionals at the Travel Weekly Readers Choice Awards last night in in New York. This comes just weeks after the company was named "Best Luxury Tour Operator" by readers of Luxury Travel Advisor and "Best Africa/Middle East Tour Operator" by TravelAge West and Recommend."


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## Need2Know

*Current Fee V's Property Value*

Hi, new member to TUG, but spent a lot of time following DC4MS - glad to see many familiar names here.
Anyway, have been watching from the sidelines for a long time now and feel that the time is drawing close to making a value based decision on an equity club.
I've been out of the loop for a little while, and it's quite possible that I've missed out on something, but in my most recent review of the A&K club it appears that the initiation fees have dropped from where they used to be - is this correct? If so, does anyone out there know what this means for the price of the homes that are now being purchased? I was of the impression that there were 6 members per home and that the homes were being bought for $3.0m. Obviously this math doesn't work at the new fee levels. I assume they're simply buying cheaper homes, but any feed back on this (plus any idea of how the membership has grown, or shrunk, over the past 12 months) would be appreciated.


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://www.akresidenceclub.com/pricing-chart.aspx

2010 sales - AKRC had a good H1 for industry, with presumably better H2.


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## NeilGoBlue

They haven't bought any new homes in a while, so it's hard to tell.  The 3MM number was before the housing depression.  I'm really not sure what they would target now.  My guess is the 3MM number is correct but then downsized for the current real estate market.  2.5MM or so?

Regarding the decrease in prices, AK gets 27.5% of every membership they sell.  It's one of the ways they make money.  They lowered the price by eliminating all or most of their commission, so the same money would go into 'the home' as before. (just AK's commission is less)

The member per home ratio hasn't changed.


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130505
12.5% for membership sales and marketing expenses
5% for general and administrative expenses
10% return or profit to A&K manager


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## Need2Know

Is the membership ratio 6:1? I thought it was, however if this ratio is based on the top tier membership of 60 days, this would equate to 360 member use days per year (can't be right). Conversely, if the ratio is based on the 30 nights per year tier, this would only generate $1.8 m (6 x $300k) in revenue to be applied towards the purchase of a new home plus any A&K expenses, well below the original $3.0m level. I assume it must be the 45 day tier - therefore generating $2.25m in initition fee revenue (6 x $375k) and 270 use days per year. If A&K is taking 10% or more out of this number (for marketing or other expenses) then I guess they would be looking at $2.0m houses or less going forward, this sounds like a reasonable price point for houses going forward, but this would generate 270 use days per year (and $250k in dues per house p.a) this seem seems like a lot of use.


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## Kagehitokiri2

TarheelTraveler said:


> The maximum ratio of homes to members is 6.5 to 1.



have they standardized dues? whats the current AK exchange?


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## TarheelTraveler

The A&K deposit prices are down from the peak.  Of course, that reflects the reality that the portfolio value is also down from the peak.

With respect to new homes (which additional deposits would go towards), I'm assuming with some certainty that they'd be buying houses for less than the $3M at this point in time.  The A&K model is pretty cut and dried.  There is no debt in the member's corporation, so what you bring in is what would be used to buy new homes.  The net deposits are simply added to a separate account (which is precisely reflected in the audited financials) used only for that purpose.  You can call the A&K RC CFO to get that number at any point in time.

Don't hold me to this, but for some reason a maximum of 270 days sold is sticking in my head.  Assuming you sold only 15 day memberships, you'd have $3.15M before the reduced commission.  Of course, if you sold only 45 day memberships, you'd only have $2.25M before the reduced commission.  The sales reality for all clubs from what I understand is you typically have way more 15 day members than 45 day members, so the actual number is somewhere in between, perhaps skewing the net towards the higher number.  My understanding is that A&K is taking less than 10% out to cover their expenses.

One thing that is different with A&K as opposed to most of the clubs is they have a 1 in: 1 out, which has kept the resignation list low during the recession but has also inhibited the purchase of new homes.  Not sure what the long term policy will be.

As far as occupancy, the overall maximum occupancy number is a little better than most clubs.  Some clubs had no caps and others were around 80%.  One other difference is that A&K dues also include the A&K trips and European villas which lowers the actual occupancy by a decent chunk.  I believe overall occupancy has been around 50% based on the last two annual member meetings (from a combination of extra houses, A&K trips and the villas).


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## NeilGoBlue

TT is correct as usual on all accounts....

The usage is probably a little higher now with the Ritz Carlton members coming in, but we have a lot more choices.


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## TarheelTraveler

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> have they standardized dues? whats the current AK exchange?



The dues are fairly close to being standardized at this point.  There have been no dues increases for newer members, and legacy members have had the standard increase applied.  Also, a decent chunk of legacy members upgraded for additional benefits like $350/night space available nights.  On the A&K exchange for trips, it's either a $1,200 or $1,400 credit per night for any A&K travel, just can't remember which off the top of my head.

Agree with NGB on the Ritz-Carlton exchange.  You see somewhat less availability on our side, but you also have their side to pull from.


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## Need2Know

Appreciate all the input and help with this. I guess the area that's still a little confusing and difficult to pin down relates to the member ratio of 6.5:1. If there are mostly 15 day members and not 45 day members the ratio might get up over 15:1. I understand that this doesn't affect the 270 day usage cap, but it would certainly make things a lot more competitive for peak periods - something that family travellers with kids, like me, need to think about when reviewing the respective clubs. Thanks again for the input.


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## TarheelTraveler

Need2Know said:


> Appreciate all the input and help with this. I guess the area that's still a little confusing and difficult to pin down relates to the member ratio of 6.5:1. If there are mostly 15 day members and not 45 day members the ratio might get up over 15:1. I understand that this doesn't affect the 270 day usage cap, but it would certainly make things a lot more competitive for peak periods - something that family travellers with kids, like me, need to think about when reviewing the respective clubs. Thanks again for the input.



My two cents FWIW.  I do think that the member makeup is going to be similar across the industry.  However, there will be some variation on how that issue is handled by the various clubs.  For example, I believe ER handles it by fastest finger two years in advance, and A&K does it through spring and fall drawings where your prioritize your selections.  Obviously, each of those systems will appeal to and be better for some, but worse for others.

I can't speak to the ER system, but I would normally think that I'd do better in that fast finger approach.  However, we've gotten our top choice every time through the priority drawing approach, so I've been happy with it.  Overall, I think 90%+ for every drawing have gotten one of top two choices, so I don't think it's that surprising necessarily.  By the time you do 17 houses X 12 or so holidays (Spring Break is 6 or so weeks maybe), you take out some dog holiday weeks at particular destinations, but you also take out some of the 150 members or so that could care less about holiday travel (or those who ignore a few reminders to log in and make selections), it works surprisingly well.

Since we've got kids in school, we do a lot of our travel in the summer and during holidays from the holiday drawings.  We'll then add two or three long weekends also centered on Fridays or Mondays off of school.


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## Need2Know

Thanks TT. First hand experience is the best way to gauge how the system is working - sounds like it's working well for you. Appreciate the fedback


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## NeilGoBlue

We too have had no problems with availability.  We upgraded our membership not too long ago so that we now have holidays.  (our kids just became school age).  I will let you know how it goes later this year.. (since I haven't used a holiday yet.  But, so far, so good.  I also hear good things from other members.

I booked a spring break week this year in march at Tahoe.  It wasn't even a holiday week! (as defined by AK) spring break started later in march and went through april.

So, I got a holiday week with not problem without even using the lottery system.


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## Teddy AK

We have also gotten exactly what we have wanted...no problems.  Not sure if that is because the membership is low, but it has been great.  As for the ability to buy the 18th home, don't they still have to pay for all of the homes to be transferred?  Not sure where that stands or how many more members they need to go get number 18...

Still the best deal out there.


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## Kagehitokiri2

so does kiawah pretty much book up for the summer ahead of time?

which properties have best $350 last minute avail?

by standardized i meant for new members, since they no longer publish dues.


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## TarheelTraveler

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> so does kiawah pretty much book up for the summer ahead of time?
> 
> which properties have best $350 last minute avail?
> 
> by standardized i meant for new members, since they no longer publish dues.



Kiawah is one of the harder properties to get, particularly for the summertime.  There is some short notice availability in the winter, spring and fall, but not summer.

As far as short notice availability, there are typically 5-10 properties available for short notice reservations at any one time, probably a few more if you have flexibility in day of week.  Mountain properties typically have the best availability, as well as Cabo, Mayan Riviera, and Hawaii from what I can gather.  New York and Kiawah in the summer have the least in my experience.

The dues for new members vary based on number of days, with a discount for additional days.


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## NeilGoBlue

Here are properties available over the next three weeks with at least 3 day availablity 

Cabo
Jackson Hole
Kiawah
La Quinta
Tahoe
NY
Turks and Caicos
Riviera Maya
Sun Valley


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## Kagehitokiri2

pretty impressive.

edit - ah, people who havent "upgraded" dont have access.


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://www.abercrombiekent.com/marketing/ak_in_egypt.cfm
got all their clients out within a week



> All A&K tours to Egypt have been cancelled through March 31. Clients affected by a cancellation and who choose to keep their money with A&K may book another trip, to Egypt or any other A&K destination, at a 10% savings. Guests who decline to rebook will receive a full refund.


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## NeilGoBlue

Very cool.

At a member meeting a couple years ago, somebody was asking Goeffrey Kent about  the recession...

His response was something like.. Recession?  We've dealt with governments being overthrown, SARS, Airline Strikes, Volacanoes, wars, etc.  You think we can't handle a recession?

I was like, "Good Point!"


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://destinationclubnews.com/News..._Residence_Club_Modifies_Membership_Plans.php

http://www.akresidenceclub.com/membership-levels.aspx

15 $175K / $12975 ($865)
30 $300K / $24000 ($800)
45 $375K / $33975 ($755)
60 $475K / $42900 ($715)


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## Kagehitokiri2

1. are you limited to 24 villas after exchanging for AK credit?

2. does the wording re RC mean that future partners will be partners with both RC and AK?


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## NeilGoBlue

Yes, I believe you are limited to the 24 villas (but I could be wrong)

Technically AK has a relationship with the Lion and Crown Club.  This is the club that the ritz puts 'weeks/residences' into.  I think the intention is for the Lion and Crown club to enroll more partners.  Thereby having more potential residences.


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## TarheelTraveler

Just as an FYI, last week, A&K did a short member call.  Annual member call to report financials and club numbers to follow in May.

It was a very succinct call, but a few points that I took away from the call:

2010 expenses were under budget by 200K
Very positive feedback from Ritz Carlton exchange
>90% again received first or second choice in last PBWs (holiday drawings)
Standardized IT (computers, printers, 24 hour technical support) in all houses
TV programming standardization to the extent available (DVRs, movie channels, and pay-per-view movies included to the extent available in destination)
Did refreshes/renovations of something like 5 houses in 2010
Have scheduled the same for about 5 houses in 2011
Refreshes/renovations paid for by capital expenditure reserve account (5% of dues IIRC)
Increased equity buy-ins some
Reduced dues (possible b/c no debt to service)


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## TarheelTraveler

A few additional A&K related news items:

Flexjet becomes A&K partner:

http://www.abercrombiekent.com/news...nt-Announce-Exclusive-Alliance.cfm?&bcid=1575

A&K Villas added Mustique

http://www.cntraveller.com/news/2011/march/abercrombie--kent-mustique

Official press release on lowering dues and new travel benefits:

"Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club Expands Travel Benefits and Lowers Annual Dues

DOWNERS GROVE, IL – March 22, 2011 … The Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club, the largest equity-based destination club in the industry, announced expanded A&K travel benefits exclusively for Club members, along with a 20% reduction in annual dues.  

“Our members realize the benefit of joining a destination club managed by a worldwide luxury travel leader which gives them access to inspiring experiences around the world,” says Abercrombie & Kent Founder and Executive Chairman Geoffrey Kent.  In 2010, 15% of the membership traded nights for A&K travel to a wide range of destinations, including safaris in East and Southern Africa, Israel & Egypt, Indochina, Argentina, Peru, Australia, Turkey, Canada and countries throughout Europe.

“While we joined A&K Residence Club to travel to beautiful destinations and stay in beautiful homes, we have been blown away at the way A&K has helped make our vacations memorable,” says member Drew Quartapella. “By taking advantage of A&K’s resources, our family has had some amazing experiences, including a gladiator school and a private Vatican tour in Rome; swimming with dolphins and horse-backing on the beach in the Dominican Republic; deep sea fishing in Cabo San Lucas; bike tours around the walled city of Lucca; and unbelievable gourmet meals provided by personal chefs in the comfort of our private home away-from-home.  We continue to be impressed by the efforts of A&K to make our trips great! “

In response to member demand, the Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club has also recently added a new “Universal Plus” 60-night membership for larger families and business use.  Membership pricing also changed, with an increase in member capital contributions which reflects the upswing in the real estate market, and a 20% reduction in annual dues made possible by the fact that the Club has no debt service, unlike clubs built on a real estate model.

MEMBERSHIP PLAN HEMISPHERE      GLOBAL  UNIVERSAL       UNIVERSAL PLUS 
Nights Included         15      30      45      60     
Nightly Dues             $865   $800    $755    $715   
Access to Abercrombie & Kent Travel, Villas     Yes     Yes     Yes     Yes    
Capital Contribution    $175,000        $300,000        $375,000        $475,000       


Perhaps most compelling to prospective members is the Club’s equity membership model.  Members own the Club and the Club owns the properties, debt-free.  “Most destination clubs are built on a real estate model,” says Kent. “The Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club was founded on a fundamentally different, more conservative ‘equity’ model where capital contributions are secured by the Club’s assets. This provides a measure of security and peace of mind.”

The Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club offers members exclusive use of private residences in beach, mountain and golf destinations, in addition to hundreds of A&K travel experiences.  A Global Experience Manager coordinates the travel arrangements with an on-site Destination Host to insure a memorable and stress-free vacation. Members may visit a new destination every time they travel, enjoying all the comforts of home, without the maintenance responsibilities of ownership. 

The Club also arranges special access to events such as the Sundance Film Festival in Deer Valley, the U.S. Open in New York City and the PGA U.S. Open on Kiawah Island.

In addition to stays at Club-owned properties, Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club equity members may trade Club nights for access to ten different Ritz-Carlton® Club locations: 

Abaco, Bahamas
Aspen Highlands, Colorado
Bachelor Gulch, Colorado
Vail, Colorado
Kapalua Bay, Maui
Kauai Lagoons, Hawaii
North Lake Tahoe, California
San Francisco, California
St. Thomas, Virgin Islands
Jupiter, Florida

More information on the benefits of membership in the Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club can be found at: www.akresidenceclub.com"


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://deals.truth.travel/2011/03/easter-specials-at-ak-villas-worldwide.html


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## TarheelTraveler

While I was pretty much bored out of my mind with the royal wedding stuff, I did think it was neat seeing a fairly long clip of Geoffrey Kent of A&K going into Westminster Abbey on NBC.  I do suspect that he got more air time than most because of his quite attractive date.


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## Kagehitokiri2

http://www.akresidenceclub.com/membership-levels.aspx



> Access to Abercrombie & Kent Villas and *Preferred Rates* on Travel
> 
> Annual Capital Reserves



= ?


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## Kirbyson

*Preferred Pricing*

The preferred pricing applies to at least the A&K tours.  I haven't looked into what this discount might be but believe that it varies.


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## Kirbyson

*A&K Experience - First Year*

Based in part on the information shared here and extensive (easily 70 hours, including external legal review) research into the legal and financial information my family joined the A&K club early this year.  We met with A&K management in person at their offices after several phone conversations including with the CFO.  Our concern was centered on the financial sustainability of the program and its legal structure.  The rest of the proposition was something we knew we wanted, essentially a quality product in a few ski and sun destinations and no debt.

We have found that the club absolutely meets our high expectations in terms of hard and soft product, and thus far we've gotten what we need and want from membership.  We've also gotten our first choice of houses for holiday periods, including last-minute access to skiing during spring break and to Kiawah for Easter.  Initially I had thought that the Ritz exchange program was meaningless to us, but we tried the exchange for the Ritz in Vail Village (1 A&K night got us 2 Ritz nights in a large 3 bedroom in June) and now think it is good to have that option as well.  I'm sure we'll return to that property or try another Ritz location.  

As part of our research I also looked into every other competitor out there of which I am aware and spoke to each of them.  There were one or more reasons that each of them failed our requirements for transparency, security (what happens to your money and what are the prospects that you'll ever get it back?), general business model and/or, in the case of Inspirato, the newness of the business and the fact that the best reason they came up with for why I should sign a check for $10,000 or $15,000 is that the CEO is a good guy.  I do think that model has a good chance, however.  

All told, we spent over a year casually looking into options, and several months of part-time work to get the best possible understanding of this industry and the options that may look the same but, as everyone here knows, certainly are not.  I think we're aware of the major types of risk in the A&K business, and are prepared to accept those risks.  Thank you to the many people who helped along the way.


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## travelguy

Kirbyson said:


> Based in part on the information shared here and extensive (easily 70 hours, including external legal review) ...... I think we're aware of the major types of risk in the A&K business, and are prepared to accept those risks.  Thank you to the many people who helped along the way.



Glad you are having a good experience with A&K.  It's nice to hear about a happy DC customer instead  of reading about the hardships of the industry!


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## NeilGoBlue

Kirbyson said:


> Based in part on the information shared here and extensive (easily 70 hours, including external legal review) research into the legal and financial information my family joined the A&K club early this year.  We met with A&K management in person at their offices after several phone conversations including with the CFO.  Our concern was centered on the financial sustainability of the program and its legal structure.  The rest of the proposition was something we knew we wanted, essentially a quality product in a few ski and sun destinations and no debt.
> 
> We have found that the club absolutely meets our high expectations in terms of hard and soft product, and thus far we've gotten what we need and want from membership.  We've also gotten our first choice of houses for holiday periods, including last-minute access to skiing during spring break and to Kiawah for Easter.  Initially I had thought that the Ritz exchange program was meaningless to us, but we tried the exchange for the Ritz in Vail Village (1 A&K night got us 2 Ritz nights in a large 3 bedroom in June) and now think it is good to have that option as well.  I'm sure we'll return to that property or try another Ritz location.
> 
> As part of our research I also looked into every other competitor out there of which I am aware and spoke to each of them.  There were one or more reasons that each of them failed our requirements for transparency, security (what happens to your money and what are the prospects that you'll ever get it back?), general business model and/or, in the case of Inspirato, the newness of the business and the fact that the best reason they came up with for why I should sign a check for $10,000 or $15,000 is that the CEO is a good guy.  I do think that model has a good chance, however.
> 
> All told, we spent over a year casually looking into options, and several months of part-time work to get the best possible understanding of this industry and the options that may look the same but, as everyone here knows, certainly are not.  I think we're aware of the major types of risk in the A&K business, and are prepared to accept those risks.  Thank you to the many people who helped along the way.



Welcome to the club!


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## Kagehitokiri2

i presume AK has offered this to members before now?

http://www.akairportconcierge.com/


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## TarheelTraveler

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> i presume AK has offered this to members before now?
> 
> http://www.akairportconcierge.com/



Yes and no.  We've had it for a while as a member perk in Punta Cana (just like owners in Punta Cana), and for select trips, the destination host has effectively provided some of those services.  Additionally, they've previously talked about expanding that to all Club destinations to the extent permissible (presumbably in connection with the A&K program), but it has not been rolled out to my knowledge.  However, I'm sure the member representative could add that service if a member wanted it.


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