# Considering Westin Purchase - How Difficult to Reserve?



## dcdowden (Mar 7, 2006)

I am considering Westin Kierland, but I am concerned about how hard it would be to obtain a reservation during March each year?  Can anyone give me some advice concerning their experience with the Westin/Starwood reservation system.  I was also considering Marriott Canyon Villas, but I read some posts on the Marriott TUG BBS which really blasted the Marriott reservation system.  I think that part of their problem is their scheme for exchanges requires you to first get a 'good' reservation at your home resort.

As I understand Starwood, you can make a reservation at your home resort starting at 12 months out.  How hard is it to obtain what you want when you reserve that far in advance?

Also, what is Starwood's policy for cancellations?  What options do you have with any 'leftover option points' that you might have for the year?

Thanks much,
Doug
Naperville, Illinois
Fairfield Royal Vista Owner


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## djp (Mar 7, 2006)

Reserving 12 months out you will have absolutely the pick of the litter. any unused staroptions at the end of the year will be lost, your options with your staroptions are to use them in your use year, coonvert them (or some portion of them if you have a lock off) to starpoints for hotel usage assuming you have a developer purchase-starpoints do not expire like staroptions, or use remaining options to reserve a week and deposit with an external exchange company for an exchange in the future. with starwood you can cancel your reeservaton and make a new one- they may charge you a small fee for doing this-but most report that they will not, if you cancel within 90 days of your resercvation then you are limited tomaking another reservation at only 90 days out.


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## vic714 (Mar 7, 2006)

Doug,
I have never had any problems making a reservation in any of my home resorts if I made the reservation 12 months out. Trading into an another resort can be a problem if you want to get in during peak times. Buy where you want to go and you will not have any probelms. 

If you cancel a res. you may have to pay a $29 fee ( depending on when you cancel ) and you will get your staroptions back, however they really put a restriction on when and how you can use the staroptions. If you do not use all of your staroptions during your use year you lose them.

I like the Starwood program and highly recommend it.

Victor


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## gns4az (Mar 8, 2006)

Doug,

We reserved a week at Kierland (our home resort) in March at approximately 7 months out without a problem; then had a change of plans at less than 60 days and were still able to get the 4 days we wanted for a different week in March.  As others noted, the cancellation fee is nominal $29.

BTW - we've stayed at both the Marriott and the Westin - Kierland is much nicer in our opinion.  And so far we're pleased with the internal reservation / trading system.

Good luck.


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## dcdowden (Mar 9, 2006)

Thanks to all for your very helpful responses.  I also learned alot about Starwood on many of the other threads in this forum.  We went for the visit today at Sheraton Desert Oasis, and both the sales person and the manager person they bring to help close were seemingly not aware that Westin Kierland resales could still have access to SVN and star options. But when the manager went to check, he found out the same info that has been repeated clearly on this site. We loved the Westin Kierland resort, and I think we will try to purchase resale. Any tips on that process?
Thanks again,
Doug
Naperville, Illinois

PS - The going developer price is $34K with 100,000 starpoints for first day sale. No usage until 2007.


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## vic714 (Mar 9, 2006)

Doug,
What season was that in?
Victor


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## vic714 (Mar 9, 2006)

djp said:
			
		

> starpoints do not expire like staroptions,



I think that there is a 6 year expiration on starpoints. Don't think I'll ever have to worry about losing any since I like to use them all to often.

Victor


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## stevens397 (Mar 10, 2006)

When I purchased Kierland, I put about half of the purchase price on my Starwood AMEX and took their short-term mortgage.  I never intended to pay it out over a long period of time - just wanted to space the charges.  In the end, I paid the balance over three months with very minimal interest and was able to charge payments to the AMEX card.  So like many of you, I was able to add another bunch of points to the total that they gave me.

FWIW, those 100,000 points can be worth a bundle.  48,000 points got me five nights in a Junior Suite at Princeville - with taxes, over $3,000 of benefits.


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## tomandrobin (Mar 10, 2006)

We bought ours directly from the developer in October. We paid for the purchase with our American Express. We got 132,000 starpoints out of the deal, which are good for 6 years. The value of those Starpoints really offset the cost for us, book four nights get one night free. We are getting three 5 night, 6 day trips out of our points. Plus we get the benifit of converting to starpoints if we need to in the future, which we will. We love Westin and all of their resorts, but they don't have a timeshare everywhere we want to go. For example, they are building a several new resorts throughout the Carribean. I want to go there, but since they are not timeshares i can use my points and go if I want. Some sudder at the thought of using the points, but I rather stay in a nice Westin with all of its amenities, then a third rate timeshare near it. 

Buy Kierlend from the developer if you want the staroption feature, If you only want the staroption use, buy resale. Its all on how you travel. The wife and I are all over the place. One size does not fit us, we need flexibility.


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## formerhater (Mar 10, 2006)

tomandrobin said:
			
		

> We bought ours directly from the developer in October. We paid for the purchase with our American Express. We got 132,000 starpoints out of the deal, which are good for 6 years. The value of those Starpoints really offset the cost for us, book four nights get one night free. We are getting three 5 night, 6 day trips out of our points. Plus we get the benifit of converting to starpoints if we need to in the future, which we will. We love Westin and all of their resorts, but they don't have a timeshare everywhere we want to go. For example, they are building a several new resorts throughout the Carribean. I want to go there, but since they are not timeshares i can use my points and go if I want. Some sudder at the thought of using the points, but I rather stay in a nice Westin with all of its amenities, then a third rate timeshare near it.
> 
> Buy Kierlend from the developer if you want the staroption feature, If you only want the staroption use, buy resale. Its all on how you travel. The wife and I are all over the place. One size does not fit us, we need flexibility.



I'm with you on this one.  After I bought from the developer, I got scolded around here.  Starpoints are a big selling point for us, though.  We may not get as much "value" by converting to them as we would spending a week with a kitchen, but it fits the way we travel and when used wisely, you can do some amazing things with them.  Everyone travels a little differently, and should plan accordingly when making their purchase.


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## djp (Mar 10, 2006)

I agree the starpoint feature is often belittled on this site....to each their own. That being said, I imagine alot of the belittling is from people who own at a few resorts...the "big three" (st jon, harborside, maui)....this makes sense for a few reasons
1. Their maintanance fees are more, trading your week that you pay close to $2000 in mf for for 10 nights in a level 4 hotel, or 6 or 8 in a level 5 is not all that appealing, but if your mantenance fees are half that @$1,000 (as most of the cont. us resorts are close to this number....smv 2brlo 148,100 options $902-all fees converts to 85,800points) and you  travel to the right placce at the right time this is a nice benefit and you could get over $4,000 worth of accomodations (st regis aspen december 8-16 at $537 per night) for  your $900 mf.
2. Secondly the "big three" typically will command a higher rental rate, this making the option of renting your unit out and using the proceeds to pay or your own hotel accomodations more appealing. (Two considerations here are 1. the hassle factor of having to rent it out, 2. the fact that it has been posted here that it is not against the rules to make a reservation at another resort(not your home) and rent it out.
3. The big three resorts have more of a wow factor (I imagine-first trip to wkorv in may) than the cont. US resorts and therefore folks feel like they are giving up more and thus the starpoints are less appealing
4. And finally  I think many people purchase resale...and want to convincce themselves that they arent missing anything...simply saving lots of money. I wish I had known about  resale when I bought my unit, and will  buy my next one resale and had I bought resale I would have probably saved $15,000, but that being said I  would not have gotten the 200,000 starpoints I received and the ability to turn my week into starpoints. Is that worth $15,000-probably not, but I am glad for the added flexibility and I think it is worth something-maybe to me the 200,000 points are worth @$6000-$8,000 and the flexibility of turning my week into points is probably worth $2,000-$3000. So I figure I overpayed by @$5,000.
All this to say, that I think the starpoint benefit gets a bum wrap, and for some  people this has significant value.


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## rocky (Mar 10, 2006)

djp said:
			
		

> All this to say, that I think the starpoint benefit gets a bum wrap, and for some  people this has significant value.



Agree, agree!  Bravo!  I like to travel the WORLD, not just to Maui every year.  My developer purchase starpoints netted me 360,000 British Airways miles......  and I get to fly to expensive strange places with them.... like the Seychelles and New Caledonia and Hanoi to try out the incredible Le Meridian properties there (all rooms using starpoints).....  I love the starpoint.  LOVE IT.


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## dcdowden (Mar 11, 2006)

Victor,
The price I mentioned was for a 2 BR L/O in Platinum Season.

From what I heard, I agree that the Starwood Starpoints program is much superior to the Marriott rewards program with no restrictions on usage and 5th night free. I can see why many like that option. They offerred us 100,000 points as a first day incentive to purchase.  For us, we intend to mostly just use the Kierland resort each year, so the points were not sufficient to offset the difference between developer price and resale price.

Thanks again to all for your very helpful comments,
Doug


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## vic714 (Mar 11, 2006)

Doug,
Thanks for the update.

Good luck with your purchase no matter if you buy direct or resale. Everyone has their own needs. I have to agree with the majority of the responses on here and do not regret purchasing from the developer. All of my purchases have come with over 100,000 points and I have used them to the fullest. My last purchase in Maui netted me 150,000 incentive points and I was able to convert a portion to miles to upgrade my next flight to Maui to first class. Each upgrade ( 4 ) had a $3,000 value and only cost 100,000 points. By my figures that one transaction had a $12,000 value. Granted it may not always be that way but with that transaction my $69,900 OF unit almost came out to be the same as a resale purchase. I also have the option of converting to points in the future.
Victor


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## LauraS93 (Mar 11, 2006)

I don't regret buying from the developer, either.  We did so in June of 1998 at the Westin St. John.  We really didn't know what we were doing, but it turned out being a wonderful investment.  We only get 22K starpoints for our 2 bedroom villa.  We only converted one year.  I don't think we will do that again.  We just rented out the villa this year for $4500.


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## chemteach (Mar 11, 2006)

I just had to add that if you are thinking of buying from the developer, it actually may make sense to first purchase a resale unit at Sheraton Desert Oasis or SMV or any other non-mandatory resort at an extremely discounted price (I have seen SDO 2 BR LO units sell for under $5000 on ebay) and then buy another unit from the developer with the condition that they convert the non-SVN unit to SVN.  Several people have written here in the past that Starwood has done this.  Having Starwood convert a unit to SVN would be a huge bonus connected to buying from the developer.

Edye


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## vic714 (Mar 11, 2006)

They will not bring the unit into the SVN network. They will only allow for a one time staroption conversion to count towards elite status qualification.  If it's an annual you can get a 50,000 credit, if it's an EOY you only get 25,000. The resale week will not have the original staroption value unless it's a mandatory resort.
Victor


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## duke (Mar 12, 2006)

*Resale to SVN*



			
				vic714 said:
			
		

> They will not bring the unit into the SVN network. They will only allow for a one time staroption conversion to count towards elite status qualification.  If it's an annual you can get a 50,000 credit, if it's an EOY you only get 25,000. The resale week will not have the original staroption value unless it's a mandatory resort.
> Victor


/

Victor:
Please explain what you mean?  My understanding is same as CHEMTECH.


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## grgs (Mar 12, 2006)

It would be great to hear if anyone has had a resale grandfathered in recently.  I looked at the old TUG archives and found this thread from 2001:

http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010920-1-001246.html

Here is one post from that thread (14th one down):

_quote:Originally posted by jagmeister:
    Unfortunately, I was told that private resales do not qualify for the Starwoods points system -- much like Marriott. Could save some money and trade but lose the points.


----------------
Thats not true..I just had a friend who owns at Desert Oasis tell me they tried to sell him points and when he said no ,they offered to convert his week for free...Starwood desperately needs inventory so it is offering free conversions..They wont tell you this until the end of the presentation and you arent buying..My friend said they kept telling him there was a $2000 fee to convert but everything changed just as he was getting ready to leave..Buy an inexpensive resale and get it converted for free..Maz_

Now, I'm not doubting what was said above, but I'm wondering if the above scenario is likely to happen today.  I can certainly believe that when Starwood first started out they may have had to boost inventory and, thus, offered conversions to resales.  I'm just doubtful that they would be willing to to do so today.  

What I would like to know is if anyone can verify that a resale has been grandfathered into SVN in the last 2 years or so?

Thanks!

Glorian


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## vic714 (Mar 12, 2006)

duke said:
			
		

> Victor:
> Please explain what you mean?  My understanding is same as CHEMTECH.



If you have a resale and are buying from the developer they can do what is called a " Special Elite Level Qualification Credit". It will grant a one time "credit" to help you qualify for the next elite level status. The staroptions will not be available on a yearly basis, unless it is a mandatory resort, but will remain credited to your account.

Ex. You own 2 resale plat weeks ( 2 BR LO ) at WMH. The staroptions for those weeks have a value of 0 since they are resale. 
If you then purchased 2 weeks at WKORVN from the developer with a staroption value of 148,100 each they could, depending on how knowledgeable the salesperson is and by asking the right questions, grandfather in the resales so that they each get the 50,000 one time credit to get you to 4 star elite. 
296,200 for WKORVN
100,000 for the resale
396,200 staroptions that would qualify for 4 star elite ( 359,000 required )

On a yearly basis you would have 296,00 staroptions to use towards vacations and trading within SVN and you would have the 2 weeks usage at WMH.

Hope this helps.

Victor


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## DeniseM (Mar 13, 2006)

Hi Victor - That is great info.  Where did you get it???


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## vic714 (Mar 13, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Hi Victor - That is great info.  Where did you get it???



When I originally became 3 star elite. Actually I already had enough staroptions before they started the program.

Victor


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## duke (Mar 14, 2006)

Victor:

That's great to hear but applies to "Elite Level".  The question is does anyone have experience with grandfather resales into StarOptions for SVN trade and daily use?


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## Henry M. (Apr 10, 2006)

vic714 said:
			
		

> If you have a resale and are buying from the developer they can do what is called a " Special Elite Level Qualification Credit". It will grant a one time "credit" to help you qualify for the next elite level status. The staroptions will not be available on a yearly basis, unless it is a mandatory resort, but will remain credited to your account.


 
Victor:

Do you know what happens with respect to status if you purchase a resale at a mandatory resort and then buy from the developer? Will they credit the full value of the Staroptions towards Elite status? For example, could you buy three resale units say in Maui or Kierland, then buy a fourth one from the developer at Kierland and get 5 Star Elite Status?

In your Mission Hills example you only showed credit for 50,000 points/unit towards Elite status. I guess they only give you credit for one level upgrade of your Elite status, not for the StarOptions the units initially control, correct? Is the 50,000 a number used for all voluntary units or does it vary by property and season?

Thanks,
Henry


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## vic714 (Apr 10, 2006)

emuyshondt said:
			
		

> Victor:
> 
> Do you know what happens with respect to status if you purchase a resale at a mandatory resort and then buy from the developer? Will they credit the full value of the Staroptions towards Elite status? For example, could you buy three resale units say in Maui or Kierland, then buy a fourth one from the developer at Kierland and get 5 Star Elite Status?
> 
> ...



Henry,
I am getting mixed messages from Starwood on this one. One sale rep I have purchased from said that only the 50,000 one time only bonus will be given to count towards my 5 star. I am in discussions right now with Starwood on a 3 BR unit at St John and was told that the resale week I have pending will not only have the full staroption value attached, but I will also have the ability to convert the resale unit into starpoints if I want. Just don't know if i want to spend another $55K for the 3 BR unit right now to get to 5 star.
Like I have posted before I think alot has to do with the knowledge of the sales rep someone is dealing with. I don't think that Starwood is going to give someone 148,100 staroption from a resale unit if your buying a silver season 1 BR at Kierland, but if you are willing to spend the BIG bucks they do have some wiggle room on the added benefits that can add to the deal.
Victor


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