# Durban Sands



## TimeShareMaven

Does anyone have any insight on the dramatic maintenance fees escalation and how we can address the situation?
    Charging 3000 Rand for maintenance fees for 2011 seems like an effort to just make people walk away from their timeshares.  I don't remember seeing an annual report or update on why the fees have gone up so much, or if they anticipate more.
   If anyone has any ideas, let me know.


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## Carolinian

Could it be that Stuart ''the Bullfrog'' Lamont and his infamous Club Leisure Group have gotten their hooks into your resort?  Raising levies substantially is one of their common ploys.  The easiest way to tell?  Froggy's management company is named First Resorts, which is wholly owned by Club Leisure Group.


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## northwoodsgal

I see in my 2009 DS Annual Report that Messr SJ Lamont is listed as Chairman under the resort Director list.


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## Carolinian

You might want to look at the threads on The Seapointer on this board for the sad saga of what Lamont and his gang did to them.


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## MuranoJo

3000 Rand is not too bad compared to what I got hit with--I think it was about 4500+ or so for a 2bd Week 3.  I questioned the folks who manage the yearly payments and they said they only managed levy colllection and couldn't answer.    I also saw on this site where someone called the resort to see if they would take their unit back and they were told no.

P.S.  I am trying to sell or give it away and give it my best effort, but certainly tempting to just walk away if that doesn't succeed.  
Carolinian, would you remind us what Bullfrog's typical next strategies are after a hefty levy increase?  A long time ago it seems I read that they offer you to buy into a points-type plan or just release your week, but I'm not sure.

Thx.


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## martyap

My statement for a 1BR was R3400. Continues to rise every year and I've reached my limit. Just throwing $$$ to the wind at this point. What options do we have?


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## northwoodsgal

I don't think RCI USA could care less if we own these weeks or how they're valued (along with many other SA weeks).  I think the only way we can make any difference is by contacting the resort directly.  

Per a sugggestion by a SA reseller, I have contacted Durban Sands to see if they would take my remaining week back.  I sent the email to three email addresses and haven't heard anything yet.  If a few more people did this there might actually be some pressure for RCI to fairly value our weeks and more importantly, to offer them as an exchange to other members.


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## Carolinian

muranojo said:


> 3000 Rand is not too bad compared to what I got hit with--I think it was about 4500+ or so for a 2bd Week 3.  I questioned the folks who manage the yearly payments and they said they only managed levy colllection and couldn't answer.    I also saw on this site where someone called the resort to see if they would take their unit back and they were told no.
> 
> P.S.  I am trying to sell or give it away and give it my best effort, but certainly tempting to just walk away if that doesn't succeed.
> Carolinian, would you remind us what Bullfrog's typical next strategies are after a hefty levy increase?  A long time ago it seems I read that they offer you to buy into a points-type plan or just release your week, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Thx.



Generally the next step is to try to convert you to one of his shady points clubs - CRI South Africa, Star Club, Flexi-club, etc.


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## MuranoJo

Carolinian said:


> Generally the next step is to try to convert you to one of his shady points clubs - CRI South Africa, Star Club, Flexi-club, etc.



Thanks for confirming what I thought I'd read.  Seems there was an option to just give up your week.    Can anyone suggest a good time & # to call the right people directly--if you've had success doing so yourself?  I'll also dig out my paperwork and see if I can find something there, but I've not tried it myself.


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## dchapman3668

I had sent an email to Durban Sands saying I wanted to give back my unit.

I just got an email from Durban Sands.  They told me that they do not accept "give-backs."  They said that they would have a sales person contact me shortly about reselling the unit.

Doug


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## northwoodsgal

Doug,

What email address did you use to ask about giving your unit back to DS?  I sent an email awhile ago (used 3 email addresses) and haven't heard back from anyone.

Thanks!


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## dchapman3668

castleres@legacyhotels.co.za 

Doug


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## westrougers

So let them come after you...what can they do?

I am not purchasing any  more time shares and have no debt so this should not be a problem.

Increasing fees the way they have over last year without even caring to give a proper explanation is simply arrogant and shows they no longer care about their owners.


Mike


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## dchapman3668

Durban Sands also does not allow sales of their timeshares anymore anywhere but to South Africans.

Yikes!

Doug


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## northwoodsgal

*Durban Sands also does not allow sales of their timeshares anymore anywhere but to South Africans.*

Really?  Can I ask where or who you heard that from?


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## dchapman3668

My brother was willing to buy my Durban Sands.  I contacted Durban Sands to make it happen and they told me via email that they no longer allow resale of Durban Sands to non South Africans.

Doug

PS - I hope they were in error, but I fear not.


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## northwoodsgal

Wow, that's not a good precendence for a resort to set.  I wonder if it's a Durban Sands policy or coming from First Resorts?  That could really change the SA timeshare market, and certainly not for the better, in my opinion.


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## MuranoJo

Now this is an interesting twist, not even sure what to think.  I've got mine listed for resale, so will reach out and see what the brokers think.


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## Dunk

I gave my Durban Sands away about 5 months ago. There was no problem having the ownership changed....so this policy must be fairly new.

This is the email address I used   alettan@clubleisure.co.za


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## Carolinian

Look at the BOD of Durban Sands.  If it is a typical Club Leisure Group operation, all of its members will be CLG heavies, including Lamont himself, so there is really no difference between First Resorts and the Durban Sands BOD.





northwoodsgal said:


> Wow, that's not a good precendence for a resort to set.  I wonder if it's a Durban Sands policy or coming from First Resorts?  That could really change the SA timeshare market, and certainly not for the better, in my opinion.


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## king1

Now that Durban Sands is in the grip of the Bullfrog, you may just as well walk away.  He will make sure you lose no matter what you do, so just cut your losses now.  He's not going to come after you for defaulting since that's exactly what he wants.   JMHO


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## northwoodsgal

*This is the email address I used alettan@clubleisure.co.za*

Thanks for the contact - it is the one to use.  I received a response from Aletta about who can purchase and this is the response I was given:



With reference to your e-mail below.

The decision of The Board of Directors was based on the following:

1. A significant high number of non resident owners do not pay their levies;
2. It is almost impossible to collect unpaid levies from non resident owners;
3. They have ascertained that a great number of foreign owners pay by cheque, which results in:
a. Expensive bank charges being incurred in clearing foreign cheques &
b. Loss in foreign exchange, as this change on a day to day basis
4. Extra administrative costs in sending statements, annual reports, circulars etc to foreign owners.

If the new owner have family or someone in South Africa, then the transfer can be done to the new owner with the address in South Africa.
Assuring you of our best attention and service at all times.

Kind Regards

Aletta Nortje
Transfer Administrator
First Resorts Transfer Department

Tel: 0027 31 717-7593 ext. 7148
Fax: 0027 31 709-1680
E-mail: alettan@firstresorts.co.za 


Aletta,

I'm a little confused about this statement:
. 
_"Note: As per the Board of Directors no transfers can be done from current owner to another owner. Only from current owner to a family member."_ 

Are you saying that I cannot sell my timeshare to someone outside of my family?  If so, is there a reason?

Thank you,


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## martyap

northwoodsgal said:


> *This is the email address I used alettan@clubleisure.co.za*
> 
> Thanks for the contact - it is the one to use.  I received a response from Aletta about who can purchase and this is the response I was given:
> 
> 
> 
> With reference to your e-mail below.
> 
> The decision of The Board of Directors was based on the following:
> 
> 1. A significant high number of non resident owners do not pay their levies;
> 2. It is almost impossible to collect unpaid levies from non resident owners;
> 3. They have ascertained that a great number of foreign owners pay by cheque, which results in:
> a. Expensive bank charges being incurred in clearing foreign cheques &
> b. Loss in foreign exchange, as this change on a day to day basis
> 4. Extra administrative costs in sending statements, annual reports, circulars etc to foreign owners.
> 
> If the new owner have family or someone in South Africa, then the transfer can be done to the new owner with the address in South Africa.
> Assuring you of our best attention and service at all times.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Aletta Nortje
> Transfer Administrator
> First Resorts Transfer Department
> 
> Tel: 0027 31 717-7593 ext. 7148
> Fax: 0027 31 709-1680
> E-mail: alettan@firstresorts.co.za
> 
> 
> Aletta,
> 
> I'm a little confused about this statement:
> .
> _"Note: As per the Board of Directors no transfers can be done from current owner to another owner. Only from current owner to a family member."_
> 
> Are you saying that I cannot sell my timeshare to someone outside of my family?  If so, is there a reason?



I'm really confused. Could we get clarification from Aletta. I received an email from her last year. There is a different fee amount for transfer to a South African resident or a foreign buyer. I cannot believe DS is restricting sales to South Africans but it certainly requires clarification.

The problem is that once a current owner "stops" paying these ridiculous levies you can never sell your week until you clear your balance sheet. Not too many choices left.......!!!!!!!

Marty


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## Carolinian

I wonder if South African law even allows them to do this.  Might be worth contacting TISA or even the commercial attache at the South African embassy in DC.


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## northwoodsgal

Carolinian, interesting point. 

I have had my DS listed for sale for 1-2 months now on Bidshares, TUG and VacactionTimeshareRentals.com.  I had one person put a $230 bid on it on Bidshares but then didn't follow through.  I now have another person that wants to buy it and is from SA.  The second person may or may not be legit but I will keep following through with the sale and see what happens.  At least for me, there does seem to be some buyers from SA so I would recommend to keep those For Sale postings active!

The person representing sales of DS from First Resorts (another person that will help you sell) is:

hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za

My understanding is there are no charges for selling through Hendrik.


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## martyap

Alerts has confirmed that First Resorts will only transfer ownership to SA residents or family owners of current owners. Certainly limits the choices. I have my week out for sale as well but nothing yet. You still have to be up to date with levy payments if you hope to sell.


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## Carolinian

You might try listing it for sale on the SA online auction site www.bidorbuy.co.za .  I have bought a week off of that site in the past




northwoodsgal said:


> Carolinian, interesting point.
> 
> I have had my DS listed for sale for 1-2 months now on Bidshares, TUG and VacactionTimeshareRentals.com.  I had one person put a $230 bid on it on Bidshares but then didn't follow through.  I now have another person that wants to buy it and is from SA.  The second person may or may not be legit but I will keep following through with the sale and see what happens.  At least for me, there does seem to be some buyers from SA so I would recommend to keep those For Sale postings active!
> 
> The person representing sales of DS from First Resorts (another person that will help you sell) is:
> 
> hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za
> 
> My understanding is there are no charges for selling through Hendrik.


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## martyap

*Transfer Rules*

Dear Martin,

Kindly confirm the resort, unit and week that belongs to you.

Kindly confirm the following details of the new owner:
1. Full Names
2. I.D. Number
3. Physical Address
4. Postal Address
5. Cellphone Number
6. Fax Number
7. Work Number
8. E-mail Address

Your details:
1. Full Names
2. I.D. Number

When I receive the above mentioned information, will draw up the transfer
documentation and the invoice for the transfer fee.

Note:
a. As per Board Of Directors no transfer will be concluded from current
owner to someone overseas (Outside of South Africa).
b. If the new owner is overseas, but have a South African address then only
can the transfer be done.
*c. If the new owner is family from the current owner, the transfer will be
concluded.*

The transfer fee effecting the transfer is as follows:
1. New owner in South Africa - R743.89
2. New owner outside of South Africa - R943.89

Assuring you of our best attention and service at all times.

Kind Regards

Aletta Nortje
Transfer Administrator
First Resorts Transfer Department


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## northwoodsgal

I sold mine today!  I'm so happy!

I've had mine listed on TUG, Bidshare and VacationTimeshareRentals.com.  I had one person bid on Bidshares but never follow through.  Then, I had two people (both from SA) interested through VactionTimeshareRentals.com, one of which came through today.  I first listed it about two months ago.  Sale price was $200 USD for a 2 bedroom, red (not peak) week.  

Even if this timeshare no longer works for me, there does seem to buyers from SA.


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## MuranoJo

Congrats!  Did you have any issues with payment, i.e., problems with using PayPal or whatever method you used for pament from SA?

Also, some time ago, I heard you had to provide documents showing your original purchase payment transaction, for example a copy of your credit card statement--did you have to do that, or have you gone through that yet?


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## northwoodsgal

No, I didn't have any problems with the payment, just spent a little time finding out how to do it.  I had planned on using Paypal, but my buyer didn't/couldn't get an account.  When he asked for an alternative method of payment, I called our bank (Wells Fargo) and asked how I could safely tranfer funds.They recommended doing a "Global Remittance Express Send" which would be set up from our local branch.  However, when I got there, the banker told me they couldn't do it from South Africa.  So then we set up a temporary, separate account to have funds wire transfered in to.  However, when  my buyer went to his bank, his bank recommended going to Western Union, so that's what he did.  He sent me the tracking number so I could locate it online and I was able to obtain the funds at our local US Bank location. 

Prior to making the payment, I had scanned and emailed the Share Certificate in my possession as proof of ownership.  There was some faith on his part to send the funds based just on seeing this.  I found I had to scan the image as a picture and insert it in to the body of the email for him to receive it.   Sending it as an attachment just wouldn't work, either with AOL or Yahoo.

After the funds were sent, I sent the signed papers and Share Certifcate to the buyer via Registered Mail.  I scanned and emailed the receipt to him, though I was told the letter can only be tracked until it reaches US Customs. 

I found Aletta at First Resorts to be very helpful and prompt in her replies to me while doing this.  There was a R723 charge for transfering, part of which was a VAT tax.  Our buyer willingly agreed to pay this.  

I did not have to show any original paperwork for payment of the timeshare and was never asked about it.  Your question is the first time I had heard of it.  Perhaps it was because I had the Share Certificate on hand?  I'm not sure why.


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## lance1097

Congrats on your sale.

I have pulled out my share certificates and I am going to list mine for sale.

I have not yet paid 2011 levy but hope to soon. Who is the latest contact for first resorts?

Thanks
Lance


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## northwoodsgal

Lance,

To pay levies, contact:  logiem@firstresorts.co.za

To list your timeshare for sale through the resort's contact (per Logie):  

"Should you wish to sell your timeshare, you are welcome to contact Hendrik Du Preez from Arrowwood on 021 4252233, email add: hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za"

To handle the transfer papers once you have a buyer:  alettan@firstresorts.co.za


Aletta was very prompt and helpful in handling the tranfer papers.  

Good luck!


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## MuranoJo

northwoodsgal,

Thanks for taking us through the process you used!  Sounded like a bit of workaround, but worth it.

Not sure where I got the info about having to provide the receipt or proof of when you purchased, vs. just your ownership certificate--but I'm sure it goes back a ways.

I'll try your contact.


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## MuranoJo

northwoodsgal said:


> Lance,
> 
> To pay levies, contact:  logiem@firstresorts.co.za
> 
> To list your timeshare for sale through the resort's contact (per Logie):
> 
> "Should you wish to sell your timeshare, you are welcome to contact Hendrik Du Preez from Arrowwood on 021 4252233, email add: hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za"
> 
> To handle the transfer papers once you have a buyer:  alettan@firstresorts.co.za
> 
> 
> Aletta was very prompt and helpful in handling the tranfer papers.
> 
> Good luck!



Contacted Hendrik and he said, "There is not much demand for these weeks."


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## northwoodsgal

10/4/10 An email that I received:

_Hi Jeanne

The unit you are selling is not peak,and yes we have sold 2 bed 6 sleeper for R1 000.

Regards 

Hendrik du Preez
Arrowwood International
Tel : 021 425 2233
Fax : 021 425 1550
Email : hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za
Web site : www.arrowwoodint.co.za_

Ron at Fairfields had also told me demand had really dropped off, too.

However, having my unit listed online still seemed to generate some interest.  I would continue to recommend doing so, especially since the sites I mentioned do not cost anything to use.


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## patsymck

Has anyone just bit the bullet and paid their 2011 levies for Durban Sands?

Pat


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## Carolinian

A SA auction site that may be worth a try is www.bidorbuy.co.za .  I bought a SA t/s some years ago through that site myself.


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## MuranoJo

patsymck said:


> Has anyone just bit the bullet and paid their 2011 levies for Durban Sands?
> 
> Pat


I paid my 2011 some time ago, but that's because I have a Jan. week.  Was hoping to have this puppy sold before I had the 2012 fees, but alas.

I did notice the exchange rate is moving slightly more favorably--so I'll continue watching it closely.

Carolinian, thanks for the tip about bidorbuy.


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## Twhelan2000

*Durban Sands maintenance 2012*

The estimated amount for my 2012  fees are 
2 bedroom --R4183.10  
1 bedroom---R3428.80
ridiculous


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## Twhelan2000

northwoodsgal said:


> Carolinian, interesting point.
> 
> I have had my DS listed for sale for 1-2 months now on Bidshares, TUG and VacactionTimeshareRentals.com.  I had one person put a $230 bid on it on Bidshares but then didn't follow through.  I now have another person that wants to buy it and is from SA.  The second person may or may not be legit but I will keep following through with the sale and see what happens.  At least for me, there does seem to be some buyers from SA so I would recommend to keep those For Sale postings active!
> 
> The person representing sales of DS from First Resorts (another person that will help you sell) is:
> 
> hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za
> 
> My understanding is there are no charges for selling through Hendrik.



_______________________________-
Thanks for responding so quickly. I am very disgusted with the increased fees at RCI and the way they are constantly "nickel and diming".
I no longer have a need for thies timeshare. 
￼￼


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## MuranoJo

Just to let other DS owners know, I just 'sold' my week to Arrowwood (same SA resale company from whom I originally purchased).  I offered to let them have it for nothing, and got the paperwork turned around amazingly quick--in just a few days.

I've had it up on another SA resale site for sale for a number of months and was also following another lead.  This was quick and pretty easy.  

Knowing I couldn't sell to a non-SA resident, seeing how levies keep going up, and relatively low TPU from RCI, it was an easy decision to me.

You can contact Hendrik at: hendrik@arrowwoodint.co.za.  He told me only the prime weeks are moving, but it doesn't hurt to ask if you're interested.


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## Karen G

muranojo said:


> Just to let other DS owners know, I just 'sold' my week to Arrowwood


I did the same thing, but in 2008. I got $110 for each of them at that time, and I was happy.


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## MuranoJo

Karen G said:


> I did the same thing, but in 2008. I got $110 for each of them at that time, and I was happy.



So when do we get together to celebrate?  You have to buy since you actually got some moola back.


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## Karen G

muranojo said:


> So when do we get together to celebrate?  You have to buy since you actually got some moola back.


Come to Las Vegas and we'll have a great celebration!


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## MuranoJo

Or let me know when you're in the Gem State, and I might even buy, LOL.


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## Karen G

muranojo said:


> Or let me know when you're in the Gem State, and I might even buy, LOL.


I had to google to find out which state is known as the Gem State, but now I know it's Idaho.


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## MuranoJo

Karen G said:


> I had to google to find out which state is known as the Gem State, but now I know it's Idaho.



Oh, well, so much for trying to be discreet on this board. 
Now I really have to mind my Ps and Qs.

Yeah, there are a few rowdy Gem Staters on this board (not like me at all).


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