# Combining Units For Added Trade Power



## STEVIE (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi, we own a real dog week at Vacation Village in the Berkshires. It is a great resort but we own a mud week. My question is this: As far as combining weeks for increased trading power, can I combine one year to the next? In other words, this year I split my lock off into two one bedrooms so I could combine the two weeks to have greater trade power. If next year I deposit that years weeks can I combine with the weeks I just deposited in order to have a higher trading power? The trade power is so bad I can't even trade into my home resort in another season. Sue


----------



## LAX Mom (Mar 21, 2011)

If I understand your question I think the answer is no, unless your resort allows you to combine the weeks to have a larger unit to deposit with II. Once you have a confirmation from your resort II will show that as your deposit. 

I have never heard of II allowing an exchange using 2 deposits, but others might have found this possible.


----------



## STEVIE (Mar 21, 2011)

I am talking about combining weeks in RCI.


----------



## BevL (Mar 21, 2011)

susgar said:


> Hi, we own a real dog week at Vacation Village in the Berkshires. It is a great resort but we own a mud week. My question is this: As far as combining weeks for increased trading power, can I combine one year to the next? In other words, this year I split my lock off into two one bedrooms so I could combine the two weeks to have greater trade power. If next year I deposit that years weeks can I combine with the weeks I just deposited in order to have a higher trading power? The trade power is so bad I can't even trade into my home resort in another season. Sue



Can't see why not.  I don't own a lock off but I would expect you should just be able to combine them.  Can you combine back your two sides of your lock off - do they show as units able to be combined in your account management?  If so, I'm sure a different year would be able to be combined in at the same time.

Just remember that you may lose some time - the expiry date of your combined deposit is two years from combination date.  So if you deposit a 2013 week that would normally be good until 2015 in 2012, then combine it, you'll have an expiry date of 2014 instead of 2015 - hope that part makes sense.


----------



## tombo (Mar 21, 2011)

Yes you can combine this years deposit with next years. You can also split lock-offs and combine those TPU's . With 2 years worth of lock off deposits you can take all the TPU's you receive for the 4 deposits and combine them all for $99. Check with your resort because most require you to pay the 2012 MF's to deposit the 2012 week. Also if you have last years week in the bank you can combine it too. You can combine all current and future deposits for one $99 fee, and it can make 2 mud weeks valuable as far as what they can exchange for. 

When factoring in the value of combining, factor in the $99 fee, plus 2 years of MF's, plus the $179 exchange fee. If you receive enough TPU's by combining to get a very hard to get week(s) or one you really want that is out of range without combining, it might be worth it. If you do combine you get to keep the TPU change (if any) on any exchange to use on future exchanges. 

I like to have a large number of combined TPU's to exchange from in my account. If they ever come close to expiring I can always add some more TPU's and exptend them all 2 more years for $99. If you have a big wad of combined TPU's sitting in your account you can immediatelly grab anything you find. If you wait to combine until you see something that is out of reach without combining, the exchange will probably be gone before you can get everything combined. JMHO.

PS Make sure to wait until all are availble to combine before doing so, otherwise you will have to pay $99 again or not be able to combine them when RCI verifies the deposit.


----------



## suzanne (Mar 22, 2011)

i have a similar question regarding combining weeks. i have 4 weeks banked with RCI. 1 expires Dec. 31, 2011, 1 expires Dec. 31, 2012, and 2 expire Dec. 31, 2013. My RCI  membership is paid thru 2019. If I combine all 4 weeks for the $99 fee what year would all 4 expire? Sorry, but this is the part where I get confused on the combining weeks.

Suzanne


----------



## mrrick (Mar 22, 2011)

suzanne said:


> i have a similar question regarding combining weeks. i have 4 weeks banked with RCI. 1 expires Dec. 31, 2011, 1 expires Dec. 31, 2012, and 2 expire Dec. 31, 2013. My RCI  membership is paid thru 2019. If I combine all 4 weeks for the $99 fee what year would all 4 expire? Sorry, but this is the part where I get confused on the combining weeks.
> 
> Suzanne



Two years from the date you combined them.


----------



## tombo (Mar 22, 2011)

mrrick said:


> Two years from the date you combined them.



And if you combine the TPU's you combined this year with more TPU's in the next 2 years, you will extend all TPu's for an additional 2 years. So by combining on a regular basis you can assure yourself that no TPU's ever expire.


----------



## STEVIE (Mar 22, 2011)

If you get "change" back, does the TPU's get added to the other deposits? Sue


----------



## eal (Mar 22, 2011)

Only if you pay (or have already paid) to combine multiple deposits


----------



## tombo (Mar 22, 2011)

If you have 3 deposits worth 20 TPU's each and combine all 3 for $99, you will have a banked TPU of 60. If you later deposit another 20 TPU week, it will be listed separate from the 60 TPU's and can only trade for something that requires 20 TPU's or less. You will show 2 separate deposits available for exchange. One with 60 TPU's and one with 20.

 If you tie up the 60 TPU's in an ongoing search, you can't use those TPU's for anything else without cancelling that search. If you use the 60 TPU's to book a week requiring 15 TP's, then there will be 45 TPU's left. If you then book a week requiring 40 TPU's, there will be 5 TPU's left. 5 TPU's are almost worthless, but if you keep them and eventually have another 20 TPU week to deposit and another week to deposit, and maybe some more left over TPU's from other trades, then for $99 that 5 leftover TPU's can be combined with everything else you have in your account for $99 and extend everything's life for 2 years from the date you combine them.

I hope that is now as clear as mud.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 23, 2011)

This additional fee stream for RCI of combining weeks seems to have some value for those depositing mid-range weeks.  However for the weeks assigned low numbers of points lite, it usually makes for a trade that is not cost effective.  For those weeks, it makes more economic sense to dump your timeshare weeks and just rent timeshares.  The fact that the new system makes off season weeks, which used to be viable for trading for those whose schedule allowed them to trade last minute, into weeks that are no lower financially viable for trading is going to be a huge problem for HOA's as people figure out that their trading options have turned into a pumpkin thanks to the Brave New World of RCI.


----------



## tombo (Mar 23, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> This additional fee stream for RCI of combining weeks seems to have some value for those depositing mid-range weeks.  However for the weeks assigned low numbers of points lite, it usually makes for a trade that is not cost effective.  For those weeks, it makes more economic sense to dump your timeshare weeks and just rent timeshares.  The fact that the new system makes off season weeks, which used to be viable for trading for those whose schedule allowed them to trade last minute, into weeks that are no lower financially viable for trading is going to be a huge problem for HOA's as people figure out that their trading options have turned into a pumpkin thanks to the Brave New World of RCI.



Combining weeks and leftover points has GREAT value for most RCI members. Myself and many others are thrilled to have the option and many TUGGERS  have used it with great success in it's first year. No matter whether you have a tiger trader worth a lot of TPU's or a medium to low TPU unit, the ABILITY to combine them if it works for you personally is a great thing. 

RCI does not force members to combine weeks or points, RCI gives members the OPTION to do so. Any member who wants to make trades one for one without using the option to combine their weeks can continue to do so. Any members who want to let leftover TPU's expire can do so. The $99 combining fee is an OPTION. Anyone who findsthat the fee is not economically feasible for their weeks and/or leftover TPU's simply does not combine them and does not owe RCI a penny. 

Most trades are not exact exchanges, usually there are TPU's left over (your week is worth 22 TPU's and you trade for an 18 TPU week leaving you 4 leftover TPU's for example). After 2 or 3 trades you might easily have 15 or more unused TPU's in your account that separatelly will not trade for anything, but the combine total might get you a good week you do want.

If members allow the leftover TPU's to sit in their account until they have numerous left over points from numerous trades and until they deposit one or  more weeks, then they can accomplish 2 things for a $99 fee. One they can combine numerous leftover TPU's that will not on their own trade for many (if any) places and they can also extend the life of any deposited weeks and any unused TPU's by 2 more years. They can also combine a trade (or more) with the unused TPU's creating a large pool to exchange from for the next 2 years. The large pool will allow the member to get hard to get trades that members could often not get with any week they own. 

If you combine 2 weeks and some leftover points for $99 to get a pool of say 60 TP's, you have a large pool you can use for hard to get high TPU trades, or just for regualr trades as you see availability. By using a large pool often 2 or 3 trades can be made without having to combine leftovers. If you combine 60 TPU's and trade for a 25 you have 35 left. If you then trade for a 15 TPU week you have 20 left. If you then trade for an 18 week you have 2 left. For one $99 fee you created a large pool so that you got 3 trade before you had unuseable leftover TPU's that will expire or be combined by you when you do so in the future. 

Mud weeks, blue weeks, weak resorts have been assigned lower TPU's as they should be. If one bought a February beach week hoping to trade for 4th of July, they can't. However ifthey decide to use the $99 COMBINING OPTION, they might can trade for 4th of July by combining 2 years worth of their off season weeks. It is an option owners of off season weeks did not have in the past. They can use the $99 option or not, depending on what is best for them.

In the past a February beach week would never have seen any of the good trades. Now any member can see all availability no matter what they deposit and they can see if combining their weeks/leftover TPU's for an exchange is worth it or not. You now have the ability to see everything available with any off season week deposited (couldn't before) and the OPTION to combine to exchange for available inventory it IF YOU WANT TO!  The ability to combine weeks/TPU's has opened up all of the RCI inventory to all members, not just to those who owned a tiger trader as it was in the past. 

How can anyone be mad about being given an OPTION you didn't have before? If it is worth $99 to you to combine your weeks/TPU's, exercise your NEW OPTION. If it isn't worth $99 to you personally, DON'T DO IT. I just can't see any reason to keep complaining about an option you don't personally like that is working so well for so many of the RCI members. If it is a bad deal to you, don't use the new option. 

The $99 combining option is working well for me and I will only complain if RCI takes the OPTION to combine away. If the OPTION to combine disappeared we would all lose the ability to combine when it is advantageous for us personally. Having the option when you need it beats the heck out of needing it and not having the option.


----------



## e.bram (Mar 23, 2011)

This may inhibit the owners of tiger weeks from depositing after they find out "like for like" is gone. .


----------



## tombo (Mar 23, 2011)

Like for like is not gone. If your week is worth 40 TPU's, you can trade for any week worth up to 40 TPU's. What is gone is trading an off season week for a tiger week on a one for one exchange. If your week is worth 20 TPU's you have to give 2 weeks to exchange for the 40 TPU week.

There is actually more incentive to deposit tiger weeks. In the past a tiger Hawaii week would trade one for one with Orlando or HHI. Why would an owner deposit a tiger Maui week for a week in Orlando with no change back like they would have done under the old system? There was actually more reason to not deposit tiger weeks under the old system. Under the new system one tiger week can easily trade for 3 two bed room summer Orlando weeks so the owner of the tiger week can take the whole family for one deposit. Now there is an incentive to deposit a tiger week with RCI that didn't exist before!

 Old system one tiger week got one week of some value. Under the new system a tiger week gets an equally valued tiger week on exchange, or multiple lower valued weeks for their one deposit. I think that many owners of tiger weeks who refused to deposit them in the past because they felt any trade they recieved would be a downtrade will now feel better about the value they are getting. 

I recently traded a tiger one bed room week of mine for a 2 bed ocean front Gold Crown week and a 3 bed Silver Crown Orlando week with change back. In the past I would have received one or the other. I will deposit that week now for exchange where I didn't depsoit it before (except for the rare hard to get trade). There is a tiger week availableunder the new program that would not be available to exchange for under the old program.

How does a tiger trader get 2 or 3 exchanges for one deposit? Simple. Some people will deposit 2 or 3 weeks and COMBINE them using the new OPTION to get a tiger week on trade. They now have the ability to get a tiger week that they couldn't trade for under the old system by using the $99 OPTION and combining 2 or 3 deposits. Tiger trader gets multiple weeks for one deposit. Owner of lower valued weeks get tiger week on exchange by depositing multiple weeks. Win-Win.


----------



## Happytravels (Mar 23, 2011)

*trading TPU'S*

We have several weeks prime summer (when kids are out of school)...I have looked at the trade power of these units and am disappointed..these are weeks directly on the beach..but I can't trade for anything directly on the beach (even off season).  So I would say that like for like is not falling into play here....Also the fact of trading far in advance has nothing to do with it anymore....depositing right at the nine months mark gives RCI the advantage cause then they can go right into their rental pool.....Do I have this right?? Been watching and reading and doing research...looks like I will be renting my weeks out and renting from other owners as it goes right now...or until they change the system again..is anyone else in the same boat???  I do like the fact that we can combine to get where we want to go but then we have to figure is it really worth it, just to get like for like...two MF's plus an exchange fee...for just one week.  We are adjusting our portfolio..so we can get what we want when we want  off season!


----------



## tombo (Mar 23, 2011)

I have several weeks I own that I love that did not get the TPU's I personally feel they deserve, but I am admittedly prejudiced and like my resort and area more than perhaps others do. RCI has no reason to assign too many or too few points to resorts or areasbecauseit would hurt their exchange program. Having a lot of overvalued inventory sitting there becuse they assigned units too many TPU's while there were lots of unfilled ongoing requests because they charged too little for the demand would not make snese for an exchange company. They must try to balance it all for it to work, and to believe that RCI just randomly chose TPU numbers or that it is a conspiracy for or against certain resorts is silly.

When weeks at a resort are put out there for others to exchange for and gone immediatelly, I assume RCI will raise the TPU's assigned in the future. If some sit there unreserved for long periods I assume that they will lower the assigned TPU's in the future. They have already done some adjustments as any new program would have to do in order to be successful, and we can only assume that future adjustments are going to occur as things change.


The trading power of beach front is dictated by resort and most importantly by location. The Texas gulf beaches are not the highest demand beaches like the ones on HHI, Myrtle Beach, Sanibel Island, etc are. I live in Mississippi and our beaches are not in high demand either. Many Texas and Mississippi residents drive to the panhandle to vacation for the clearer water and whiter sand. In any parking lot on the panhandle you will see lots of Louisianna and Texas car tags. The texas beaches are closer, but to many Texas, louisianna, and Mississippi residents the Florida beaches are better and worth the additional drive. 

I remember that ya'll have vacationed in Panama City, Destin, and Pensacola yourselves. that is a long drive I assume you wouldn't make if the Texas beaches were as good in your opinion as the panhandle. I can assure you that I would drive the 2.5 hours to the Mississippi coast if our beaches were even close to as good as the panhandle. Nope, I pass our beaches on a 6 to 7 hour drive to the Panhandle.

The demand for Texas beaches is just not as strong as it is for most beach locations. Neither is the demand for Daytona or Mississippi beaches. All are nice beaches, but not ever very hard to trade for like it is for other beach locations.

On RCI you can trade for numerous June, July, and especially August ocean front Texas resorts for 5 to 17 TPU's including some of yours for 15 TPU's. If there was zero availability you could possibly say RCI valued them too low, but at 15 to 17 TPU's for 2 bed ocean front Silver Crown resorts which currently have available summer weeks, you have to think they are not underpriced. 

Below are some of the current available resorts and their TPU's requred to exchange for them:

Silverleaf's Seaside Resort  (#5545)  3  available units  
    Galveston 
TX, 77554 
USA 

2 Bedroom

Exchange Trading Power
17  


   Peregrine Townhomes at San Luis Pass  (#0243)  1  available units  
    Freeport 
TX, 77541 
USA 

2 Bedroom 
Exchange Trading Power
15  

Fort Brown Condo Shares  (#0886)  12  available units  
    Brownsville 
TX, 78520 
USA 

1 Bedroom
2 Bedroom
 Exchange Trading Power Range
5 - 13


----------



## Happytravels (Mar 23, 2011)

I do agree that the beaches in the panhandle are a lot nicer then the ones on the gulf coast of Texas.  I am talking peak season for off season.  That should account for something.....


----------



## travelnj (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi,

I am not sure whether I should open another thread...

I have 7 TPUs expiring at the end of April, a few quiet season studio (the old 28K) and a high season studio non-searchable deposits expiring at the end of the year.

Does anyone have any suggestion on how to economically extend the life of the deposits? As the deposits are non-searchable, I don't think I can combine them, I have already planned the vacation for this year, hence won't be able to use them. As I only own Wyndham, hence I don't think I can make the old 28K, 70K searchable deposit.

If there are no other options, I probably would just use them for long weekend getaways.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 24, 2011)

Wow have you drunk the koolaid!

My comments were not directed at the medium value weeks, where there may indeed be some value to combining weeks, but at the low value weeks.

Based on the numerous complaints that a resort manager told me that she was receiving about Points Lite and people wanting out of timeshariing because of it, your assertion that combining weeks is ''great value for most RCI members'' is nothing but wishful thinking for your view point.  A poll on another timeshare site showed half the respondants saying they now needed more than one deposit to trade for things they used to get one for one under the defunct real Weeks system.  That is certainly NOT ''great value''.  One poster on that thread reported that he now needed to give RCI four weeks to get something he had been trading the same weeks for one for one for the last twenty years.

If you combine two low value weeks, you pay two m/f's plus a combining fee plus an exchange fee to get a week that you probably could have rented from RCI cheaper.  That is certainly NOT ''great value''.  Indeed, it is the rental end of the business where I see the most value in Rental Condominiums International these days!

In the past, the off season weeks had value due to the 45 day window, something that has gone down the toilet in Points Lite after years of it being more and more degraded by RCI.  Many of these off season owners who bought to trade did so due to RCI's own heavy promotion of the 45 day window.  Now RCI has stabbed those people in the back.  You are completely wrong that these people never used to see prime inventory.  They most certainly did but only at the juncture that it was distressed last minute inventory.  Now they even have to combine weeks to get the better last minute inventory.  I was never a 45 day trader myself, even many years ago when a blue week was part of my timeshare portfolio, but I am aware from serving on my HOA board that a great many of the blue week owners who trade did so because of the 45 day window.

The fact that it is virtually impossible to get exact numbers exactly right is one of the big drawbacks of Points Lite.  In the real Weeks system, we traded within bands or ranges, a much more valuable feature than combining weeks, but that has now been lost.  Getting the ability to combine weeks is really getting the short end of the stick on that one.  What thinking owners are upset about is losing the ability to trade within a band or range, and the fact that what we got in return is not as valuable as what we lost.  For the off season owners, they often have steam coming out of their ears for the loss of the 45 day window, as they have lost more than anyone else.  Since the off season is the weak link of timesharing, when these people start bailing out due to RCI's changes, then the rest of us are going to feel it in rising m/f's.

Two off season weeks getting 4th of July???????  Have you even looked at the numbers? In the beach area, I am most familiar with, it would take at least 4 or 5 January or February weeks to get a 4th of July week.  Rentals would be a heck of a lot cheaper than all those m/f's plus RCI fees.

You also tend to take the perspective of your own multi-week ownership and seem to think that is what everyone has.  From serving on my HOA board, I am well aware that there are a heck of a lot of members out there who only own one week.  That is their vacation week every year, so they depend on one for one exchanges.  Combining different years is certainly possible, but not very appealing if you expect a vacation in a timeshare every year, which is what they have been used to under the real Weeks system.




tombo said:


> Combining weeks and leftover points has GREAT value for most RCI members. Myself and many others are thrilled to have the option and many TUGGERS  have used it with great success in it's first year. No matter whether you have a tiger trader worth a lot of TPU's or a medium to low TPU unit, the ABILITY to combine them if it works for you personally is a great thing.
> 
> RCI does not force members to combine weeks or points, RCI gives members the OPTION to do so. Any member who wants to make trades one for one without using the option to combine their weeks can continue to do so. Any members who want to let leftover TPU's expire can do so. The $99 combining fee is an OPTION. Anyone who findsthat the fee is not economically feasible for their weeks and/or leftover TPU's simply does not combine them and does not owe RCI a penny.
> 
> ...


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 24, 2011)

e.bram said:


> This may inhibit the owners of tiger weeks from depositing after they find out "like for like" is gone. .



You are quite right.  The high demand owners will sooner or later figure this out and migrate to SFX which specializes in high end weeks.  Indeed, it would not surprise me if some entire resorts dumped RCI completely and moved to using SFX like Sloan Garden Court in London did.  London is one of the toughest trades in timesharing, if not the toughest.

RCI is crowding out the high demand owners from getting like for like by creating a lot more competition for these weeks.  The mechanism for creating this new competition?  The feature of combining weeks.  Most high demand owners I know are not particularly interested in slumming, having to accept several lesser weeks.  They bought the high demand weeks because that is the niche of timesharing that interested them.  RCI's scammy rental diversions have already depleted the pool they trade into.  Now owners of multiple mid-level weeks can do a combination of their points lite and also compete with the high demand owners.  SFX must be grinning ear to ear from RCI shooting itself in the foot on this one.  RCI is helping drive this member base right into their arms.

While like for like still exists on paper for these high demand owners, it is the realities of availibility that are going to make them wake up and smell RCI's ersatz coffee.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 24, 2011)

It is examples like this that just scream for RCI to make its exact numbers system fully transparent, something it adamantly refuses to do.  The mechanism for setting values is hidden, and that makes the numbers racket of their partially transparent system highly suspect.

They make the mechanism and the underlying numbers of establishing award status availible to resorts, and even update them monthly on the underlying numbers for their resort.  To  keep the system of numbers honest, there is no reason in the world why they should not be doing the same with the points lite numbers.




Happytravels said:


> We have several weeks prime summer (when kids are out of school)...I have looked at the trade power of these units and am disappointed..these are weeks directly on the beach..but I can't trade for anything directly on the beach (even off season).  So I would say that like for like is not falling into play here....Also the fact of trading far in advance has nothing to do with it anymore....depositing right at the nine months mark gives RCI the advantage cause then they can go right into their rental pool.....Do I have this right?? Been watching and reading and doing research...looks like I will be renting my weeks out and renting from other owners as it goes right now...or until they change the system again..is anyone else in the same boat???  I do like the fact that we can combine to get where we want to go but then we have to figure is it really worth it, just to get like for like...two MF's plus an exchange fee...for just one week.  We are adjusting our portfolio..so we can get what we want when we want  off season!


----------



## tombo (Mar 24, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Wow have you drunk the koolaid!
> 
> My comments were not directed at the medium value weeks, where there may indeed be some value to combining weeks, but at the low value weeks..


If you have a low to medium value week that you don't personally want to use, why should it trade well for things most people want in RCI? It shouldn't and doesn't. However it will trade for OTHER low to medium value weeks as it should.

Most of these low value weeks you like to talk about being slighted by RCI will not even be accepted by SFX as a deposit. Look at the weeks SFX accepts and see if your resort is even on it's acceptable list:
http://www.sfx-resorts.com/directory/

Something in RCI beats not being able to use at all in SFX. Tell all of these people how bad RCI is and how great SFX is, and then let them try to deposit their weeks with SFX to be told not on our list. If SFX will even accept their weeks, their available inventory sucks and in many locations they have very limited numbers of resorts. Only 4 resorts in the entire state of Tennessee, only 1 in the North Carolina mountains, only 4 in New Orleans, only 1 resort on the entire Florida panhandle and it is on the bay, etc, etc, etc. Every single resort offered by SFX in my above examples are also offered by RCI. However with RCI you not only have access to every one of those offered by SFX, you also get hundreds of additional available resorts that SFX DOES NOT OFFER . 



Carolinian said:


> Based on the numerous complaints that a resort manager told me that she was receiving about Points Lite and people wanting out of timeshariing because of it, your assertion that combining weeks is ''great value for most RCI members'' is nothing but wishful thinking for your view point.  A poll on another timeshare site showed half the respondants saying they now needed more than one deposit to trade for things they used to get one for one under the defunct real Weeks system.  That is certainly NOT ''great value''.  One poster on that thread reported that he now needed to give RCI four weeks to get something he had been trading the same weeks for one for one for the last twenty years.


So they need to use their own weeks, rent them to others, or sell them. The fact that an off season week used to be able to get something doesn't make it correct. I have weeks that can't trade for everything they used to also. I own at resorts that used to be Gold crown which are now Hospitality. Should they trade the same as they used to? Nope. I own at resorts that went from Hospitality and are now Gold Crown, and they also should trade differently now than they did in the past. Resorts andtheir value over time can and should change. Some of mine now trade better than they used to and some trade worse. I can take advantage of the uptrades and deposit them for high TPU's. I can decide to deposit, or not deposit those weeks that lost trading power depending on whether it is worth it to me or not to deposit based on the TPU's I will get NOW. As with everything in life you either adapt to change or you will forever be miserable.
I now know very clearly what every week I own is worth to RCI and have the OPTION to deposit a week for 16 TPU's (example) or not. I know what I will get before i deposit it, and what it will trade for. If my week is worth more than 16 TPU's to me I DON"T DEPOSIT IT! How simple is that? 



Carolinian said:


> If you combine two low value weeks, you pay two m/f's plus a combining fee plus an exchange fee to get a week that you probably could have rented from RCI cheaper.  That is certainly NOT ''great value''.  Indeed, it is the rental end of the business where I see the most value in Rental Condominiums International these days!



If it is worth it to an RCI exchanger to combine 2 weeks to get something they could not otherwise get, do it, if not don't. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I combine only when it is a good deal for me. RCI doesn't make me combine. If it takes 3 or 4 weeks to get what you want and will cost more than you can rent the week for, rent. If it takes 2 weeks and cheaper to combine than rent the week, combine. IT IS AN OPTION RCI OFFERS, NOT AN OBLIGATION. IT IS AN OPTION WE NEVER HAD BEFORE. JEEZ. 



Carolinian said:


> In the past, the off season weeks had value due to the 45 day window, something that has gone down the toilet in Points Lite after years of it being more and more degraded by RCI.  Many of these off season owners who bought to trade did so due to RCI's own heavy promotion of the 45 day window.  Now RCI has stabbed those people in the back.  You are completely wrong that these people never used to see prime inventory.  They most certainly did but only at the juncture that it was distressed last minute inventory.  Now they even have to combine weeks to get the better last minute inventory.  I was never a 45 day trader myself, even many years ago when a blue week was part of my timeshare portfolio, but I am aware from serving on my HOA board that a great many of the blue week owners who trade did so because of the 45 day window.


The 45 day window is not gone. As check in dates get closer the TPU's reqired to rent them DROP. If you look at locations and the TPU's required to exchange for them this summer, and compare them to the TPU's required for next summer, next summer will cost more. I reserved a 3 bed 3 bath June 2011 week for 12 TPU's recently. The same week for 2012 is 24 TPU's. If it is available close to check in, it will drop. So an off season week could exchange for a week 3 months in advance for 12 TPU's just like they did in the past, but they could not afford to do so a year in advance because it would cost them 24 TPU's .





Carolinian said:


> Two off season weeks getting 4th of July???????  Have you even looked at the numbers? In the beach area, I am most familiar with, it would take at least 4 or 5 January or February weeks to get a 4th of July week.  Rentals would be a heck of a lot cheaper than all those m/f's plus RCI fees.



On some beach locations like Texas and Daytona yes you sometimes can. If you can't in your Beach area, don't combine weeks to trade. IT IS AN OPTION. YOU DON"T HAVE TO COMBINE IF IT DOESN"T WORK FOR YOU!!!!!



Carolinian said:


> You also tend to take the perspective of your own multi-week ownership and seem to think that is what everyone has.  From serving on my HOA board, I am well aware that there are a heck of a lot of members out there who only own one week.  That is their vacation week every year, so they depend on one for one exchanges.  Combining different years is certainly possible, but not very appealing if you expect a vacation in a timeshare every year, which is what they have been used to under the real Weeks system.



If you only own one week you can still combine by depositing future years weeks if it works for the owner. If it doesn't work well, then they shouldn't combine. They did not buy the right to exchange for where they wanted to every year, they purchased the right to use a week where/when they purchased. 

If they purchased mainly to trade, then they made a bad mistake. They only own what they purchased. Trades are based on varying factors which can and will  change including supply, demand, and trading power of what they own and what they want to exchange for. They should be mad at themselves for buying at a resort they don't want to stay at every year. "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware.

You hate RCI. You refuse to look at combining weeks as an OPTION. You pick it apart and look for bad things. 

As I said before I would rather have the option to combine when it works for me than to need that option and not have it. You would rather have RCI take the option away from everyone because you hate RCI. I am glad RCI gave us the option.

You hate RCI and the new TPU's so much and nothing they could do would be good enough for you. Nothing is perfect, but the new program is a much improved exchange system. Why do you constantly want to tell people who like the new program that we don't know what we are talking about? No matter what we find to our liking you will never personally combine your weeks. Why don't you just let those of us who are actually combining discuss the reasons it works for us and you go back to bashing Delta. I think Delta might feel slighted by all the time and effort you have  spent bashing RCI recently. Perhaps it is time to return to Delta before they forget how much you hate them. RCI and everyone on TUG is now fully aware of how much you hate RCI.


----------



## tombo (Mar 24, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> It is examples like this that just scream for RCI to make its exact numbers system fully transparent, something it adamantly refuses to do.  The mechanism for setting values is hidden, and that makes the numbers racket of their partially transparent system highly suspect.
> 
> They make the mechanism and the underlying numbers of establishing award status availible to resorts, and even update them monthly on the underlying numbers for their resort.  To  keep the system of numbers honest, there is no reason in the world why they should not be doing the same with the points lite numbers.



It doesn't matter why. It is what it is. They tell you in black and white before you deposit what your week will get you in number of TPU's placed in your account for your exact deposit. I don't need a thesis on why my area is valuable, not in demand, marginal, etc. I simply look at what it costs to reserve resorts I am interested in which is clearly shown searching available resorts/weeks, I see what my week will get me if I deposit it, and then I deposit it or not depending on what I feel is best for me. 

In the past I deposited weeks hoping something good would show up. I hoped week A might show 146,000 US weeks because my week B had only showed 123,000 weeks. I could see lisitngs of bulk deposits on TUG (members only   ) and couldn't see them with weeks I had in the bank. I would deposit a better week hoping to see those deposits and still couldn't in some cases. It was a crap shoot.

Now I know what is available. I can search ALL RCI inventory with the weakest of deposits. I know what my deposit will get me and what my exchange will cost me. I know if I need to combine 2 weeks, and which 2 to get my desired exchange. I know everything I need to know to exchange in RCI using the new program.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 25, 2011)

Hmmmm!  The Wizzard of Oz argument again!  ''Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the great and powerful Oz (RCI) has spoken!''

You place absolute trust in the honesty and fairness of an entity that has stolen member exchange deposits from the spacebank to rent them to the general public and has lied about it, had its own Enron-style accounting scandal (in its parent company) a few years ago, and in the new system is playing shell games with its valuations, sometimes giving widely different values at the same point in time for deposits versus exchanges.

Yes, members do need absolute transparency of such an entity in the way it sets values, whether you like it or not.




tombo said:


> It doesn't matter why. It is what it is. They tell you in black and white before you deposit what your week will get you in number of TPU's placed in your account for your exact deposit. I don't need a thesis on why my area is valuable, not in demand, marginal, etc. I simply look at what it costs to reserve resorts I am interested in which is clearly shown searching available resorts/weeks, I see what my week will get me if I deposit it, and then I deposit it or not depending on what I feel is best for me.
> 
> In the past I deposited weeks hoping something good would show up. I hoped week A might show 146,000 US weeks because my week B had only showed 123,000 weeks. I could see lisitngs of bulk deposits on TUG (members only   ) and couldn't see them with weeks I had in the bank. I would deposit a better week hoping to see those deposits and still couldn't in some cases. It was a crap shoot.
> 
> Now I know what is available. I can search ALL RCI inventory with the weakest of deposits. I know what my deposit will get me and what my exchange will cost me. I know if I need to combine 2 weeks, and which 2 to get my desired exchange. I know everything I need to know to exchange in RCI using the new program.


----------



## tombo (Mar 25, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Hmmmm!  The Wizzard of Oz argument again!  ''Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the great and powerful Oz (RCI) has spoken!''
> 
> You place absolute trust in the honesty and fairness of an entity that has stolen member exchange deposits from the spacebank to rent them to the general public and has lied about it, had its own Enron-style accounting scandal (in its parent company) a few years ago, and in the new system is playing shell games with its valuations, sometimes giving widely different values at the same point in time for deposits versus exchanges.
> 
> Yes, members do need absolute transparency of such an entity in the way it sets values, whether you like it or not.



What subterfuge and utter bull$#$t. You don't have to know why they offer you 20 TPU's for your week. It does not matter why. If you did know why what would it change? The TPU's they offer you for your week are not negotiable. It is what it is. You only have to decide if you want to give your week to RCI for the 20 TPU's (example) they are offering or not! If 20 is enough, deposit your week with them. If 20 is not enough, keep it. If you are consistently offered what you feel is not enough TPU's for your week(s) QUIT PAYING RCI to be a MEMBER!!! 


I don't trust RCI to do anything but run a profitable business. I joined to exchange and if they stay profitable and continue allowing me to make exchanges I like, then I will continue to pay to be a member. If it ever stops working for me I will QUIT. 

You keep saying it is a horrible company, but rather than quitting, you remain a member (for extra vacations, etc, blah, blah, blah). Quit. I would never give a dollar to a company or group I hated half as much as you hate RCI. If I felt about RCI like you do I would have ceased to be a member years ago. You however pay to be an RCI member while complaining about the company in EVERY post. For goodness sake teach them a lesson and quit. Quit hating them while  remaining a dues paying member. Quit and ask for a refund of your fees. Show your conviction by quitting rather than spewing your venom while paying RCI to be a member.

Fact: RCI members own their week(s). RCI can not give them too many, too few, or any TPU's if they do not give their week to RCI.
Fact:If an owner deposits their week for "x" number of TPU's, RCI did not rip them off. The member chose to deposit their week for an agreed upon amount of TPU's.
Fact:If a member does not agree that RCI is offering a fair amount of TPU's for their week, they DO NOT have to give it to RCI and can keep it, rent it, exchange with someone else.
Fact: RCI can not exchange your week or rent your week to others if you don't give it to them.
Fact:If you think RCI is not transparent enough YOU CAN AND SHOULD  QUIT RCI! 
Fact:You are not forced to participate in what you call theft of your weeks.  
Fact:As long as you pay dues and remain a member of RCI you are admitting membership is worth it to you, otherwise you would cancel RCI and get your refund. 
Fact:RCI can not force you to pay $99 to combine weeks and/or unused TPU's
Fact:Membership in RCI is voluntary, not mandatory.
Fact:Everything you do with RCI is your option. You decide to join or quit. You decide to deposit your weeks, or not. You decide to combine your weeks or not. 
Fact:You have other options to exchange other than RCI, it is not a monopoly!
Fact:For many of us RCI works very well.
Fact: For those who feel like RCI no longer a viable choice, they have the option to QUIT!
Fact:The wizard of OZ was a fictional movie, not a documentary.
Fact:In the fictional movie Dorothy went to OZ courtesy of a tornado, not on a timeshare  exchange.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 25, 2011)

You clearly have utterly no comprehension of what the 45 day window was, how it has now ceased to exist, and it's impact on resort finances (and thus members m/f's).  I have never traded in the 45 day window myself but as an HOA board member and president, I made it a point to learn about things like that.

Lets start with your blather about fairness. Under the now-defunct real Weeks system, last minute inventory was highly devalued, as were last minute deposits.  That makes sense as last minute inventory generally in the leisure travel industry, when it gets close to its expiration date, is heavily discounted.  Timeshare is no different.  When the system is balanced on valuation of late deposits (heavily discounted in value) and late exchanges (heavily discounted in value) the valuation system is in balance and fair to everybody (something that is incidentally NOT true in Points Lite where people are repeatedly finding where there are substantilly different values for the same week at the same point in time depending on whether it is for deposit or for exchange).

The 45 day window is indeed gone.  The essence of it was being able to trade one for one for anything RCI still had availible 45 days out.  You simply can't do that any more.  RCI holds some values too high to do that, and there is competition from lots of other players like renters from the general public and outsiders from RCI Points that RCI has inserted into the game.

You want to look down your nose at the off season owners and take a blame the victim approach.  Do you really think it is their fault that they thought RCI was an honest company and believed all the many years of promotion of the 45 day window by the films and printed materials that RCI provided for years to developers.  Heck if you have saved old RCI Directories you can probably find the two page spread promoting the 45 day window that they included in it for years.  Should these people be punished because they were big enough suckers to think RCI had integrity?  Should RCI be praised for arrogantly pulling the rug out from under them and also from under the HOA's that depend on their m/f's for the HOA budget?

You say I ''hate'' RCI.  I could turn that around and say that you are infatuated with RCI, but then that would be stooping to your all too common ad hominem attacks.  The main folks I care about in timesharing are 1) the individual timeshare owner, and just after that 2) the HOA's.  Way behind those two in my book, come the exchange companies, all of them.  Among exchange companies, I rank them based on fairness to members, and in that I rank RCI next to last, just ahead of that one that Cindy had problems with.  Indeed, I have said quite a few times over the years that RCI under its founder Cystal deHahn created the best timeshare exchange company that has ever been created, and it is just sad that Cendent / Wyndham had to come along and prostitute it.

You also do not seem to comprehend how supply and demand work.  Maybe you should find a community college that offers a refresher course in basic economics.  The key is the ratio between the total number of weeks availible from deposits and the total number of weeks people want to take as trades.  Why they want them as trades does not matter.  Award status is a minor driver of demand, way behind location, but that is all it is.  A change in award status is not going to impact supply at all, and will only marginally change demand.  Looking at the numbers rackets that RCI has conjured up both in Points and Points Lite, they often stand principles of supply and demand on their head.  Why?  Part of it has to do with their rental game, but another part has to do with pandering to developers still in sales, as RCI hopes to gain new members through them.

With the independents, I have always suggested joining several.  For me, that is DAE and SFX.  If Hawaii was big on my list of places to go, I would probably add HTSE.  




tombo said:


> If you have a low to medium value week that you don't personally want to use, why should it trade well for things most people want in RCI? It shouldn't and doesn't. However it will trade for OTHER low to medium value weeks as it should.
> 
> Most of these low value weeks you like to talk about being slighted by RCI will not even be accepted by SFX as a deposit. Look at the weeks SFX accepts and see if your resort is even on it's acceptable list:
> http://www.sfx-resorts.com/directory/
> ...


----------



## Mel (Mar 25, 2011)

Happytravels said:


> We have several weeks prime summer (when kids are out of school)...I have looked at the trade power of these units and am disappointed..these are weeks directly on the beach..but I can't trade for anything directly on the beach (even off season).  So I would say that like for like is not falling into play here....Also the fact of trading far in advance has nothing to do with it anymore....depositing right at the nine months mark gives RCI the advantage cause then they can go right into their rental pool.....Do I have this right?? Been watching and reading and doing research...looks like I will be renting my weeks out and renting from other owners as it goes right now...or until they change the system again..is anyone else in the same boat???  I do like the fact that we can combine to get where we want to go but then we have to figure is it really worth it, just to get like for like...two MF's plus an exchange fee...for just one week.  We are adjusting our portfolio..so we can get what we want when we want  off season!


When did you deposit the weeks you're trying to exchange?  When are you looking for exchanges?  If you deposited your weeks late, you're not going to get the full value for your deposit, and won't be able to exchange back into the same season.  Is RCI charging more for exchanges to your resort than they are offering for deposits?  I haven't seen that at any of the resorts I've looked at - in most cases they are offering more for a deposit at 12 months out than they require for an exchange.  And if you're looking for an exchange 3 or 4 months out, you get a significant discount.


----------



## Mel (Mar 25, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Lets start with your blather about fairness. Under the now-defunct real Weeks system, last minute inventory was highly devalued, as were last minute deposits.  That makes sense as last minute inventory generally in the leisure travel industry, when it gets close to its expiration date, is heavily discounted.  Timeshare is no different.  When the system is balanced on valuation of late deposits (heavily discounted in value) and late exchanges (heavily discounted in value) the valuation system is in balance and fair to everybody (something that is incidentally NOT true in Points Lite where people are repeatedly finding where there are substantilly different values for the same week at the same point in time depending on whether it is for deposit or for exchange)....
> 
> You also do not seem to comprehend how supply and demand work.  Maybe you should find a community college that offers a refresher course in basic economics.  The key is the ratio between the total number of weeks availible from deposits and the total number of weeks people want to take as trades.  Why they want them as trades does not matter.


Don't you find both of these statements to be at odd with each other?  RCI does not create value;  they are in the business of exchanging timeshare weeks.  TPU values are based on supply and demand - they raise the value offered for your deposit if they want to encourage you to deposit, they reduce it if they want to discourage your deposit.  They raise what they want for exchanges if there isn't enough supply - whoever is willing to pay the higher price gets the exchange.  The same applies when they reduce the price - they reduce it enough to get people to exchange into the inventory they have.  Why would they reduce it more if they don't have enough supply to meet the demand at that TPU level?

Just because an almost worthless blue studio week used to be able to trade for a 2BR in Hawaii at the last minute doesn't mean it should always remain that way.  There has to be a balance.  If there weren't others wanting that last-miute Hawaii week, perhaps it would drop low enough to exchange in for 5 points, but the demand is there.


----------



## tombo (Mar 25, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> You clearly have utterly no comprehension of what the 45 day window was, how it has now ceased to exist, and it's impact on resort finances (and thus members m/f's).  I have never traded in the 45 day window myself but as an HOA board member and president, I made it a point to learn about things like that.



We all can learn new things. You can learn how to join TUG after 7000 posts as a guest. Perhaps by now you have decided if TUG is for you or not. You can also learn how to quit RCI since it is such a bad company. You spend hours weeks, and years on TUG yet you don't join. You hate that the 45 day RCI window is gone even though you never used it, however now in numerous paragraphs the loss of the 45 day window has ruined the entire RCI weeks program. Yes the weeks program is now worthless to you, the company is unethical, but for some reason you are still an RCI member. 

Most people quit things they hate and join things they like. Perhaps you too can learn that concept. 




Carolinian said:


> The 45 day window is indeed gone.  The essence of it was being able to trade one for one for anything RCI still had availible 45 days out.  You simply can't do that any more.  RCI holds some values too high to do that, and there is competition from lots of other players like renters from the general public and outsiders from RCI Points that RCI has inserted into the game.



As check in gets closer, remaining inventory gets cheaper. Sometime it will drop to one for one, sometimes one for one with change back. You want it to remain exactly like it was. It didn't. Call RCI and complain. Even better call RCI and quit!

For once re-read this and other threads and find anyone besides you who hates the new system. Do you see other posters joining you in the utter condemnation of the new weeks program? Nope, just you and some board member you allegedly talked to.

Many people don't like the points their weeks were assigned. Many people are upset that they can't trade for everything they could in the past. On the other hand many people are happy about the TPU's their weeks received. Many people like the new system. The new system is a vast improvement over the old system for the far majority of people here on TUG. Do a poll and see whether the majority of TUGGERS like the new system better than the old system.I will bet big money that the majority are happy overall with the changes and the new weeks program. 



Carolinian said:


> You want to look down your nose at the off season owners and take a blame the victim approach.  Do you really think it is their fault that they thought RCI was an honest company and believed all the many years of promotion of the 45 day window by the films and printed materials that RCI provided for years to developers.  Heck if you have saved old RCI Directories you can probably find the two page spread promoting the 45 day window that they included in it for years.  Should these people be punished because they were big enough suckers to think RCI had integrity?  Should RCI be praised for arrogantly pulling the rug out from under them and also from under the HOA's that depend on their m/f's for the HOA budget?



Stupid example and simply more of your irrelevant spin. Do you really expect anyone to believe  that these off season owners purchased their weeks purelly based on the fact that RCI had a 45 day window, and that they would never have purchased them if RCI had been honest and said someday in the future the 45 day window program might be changed? What a ridiculous stretch. 

 How does the fact that people PURCHASED OFF SEASON WEEKS make them victims of RCI? What a load of bull. RCI NEVER SOLD A TIMESHARE WEEK AT ANY RESORT!!! If the owners believed they could trade for anything they wanted it was because the DEVELOPER TOLD  THEM THAT THEY COULD, NOT BECAUSE RCI DID! I have attended many timeshare sales presentations, and not once was an RCI rep present. I was promised many things about exchanging through RCI that were not true, but never once was a promise made by an RCI employee. I was told that a one bed unit at XYZ resort would easily trade for 2 bed units all over the world using RCI, but never told that by RCI. If they bought to use the 45 day window, or purelly to exchange, they did so based on the developer's sales rep's promises, not RCI's. You dislike RCI so much that you blame them for things that they MIGHT have done, and even things they never did.

By the way any exchanger knows that the 45 day inventory rarely has prime/weeks/resorts/locations available. At the 45 day mark blue weeks traded for mainly blue weeks because that is the majority of what was left at 45 days, just like the majority of last call inventory is not prime inventory either.The occasional lucky find last minute is and was always rare. 

I have talked to some people who purchased weeks for no other reason than to exchange them for other locations but I NEVER never talked to a single timeshare owner who purchased a week FOR THE MAIN PURPOSE OF TRADING FOR WEEKS IN RCI USING THE 45 DAY WINDOW. If you purchased a week or weeks solely to trade it one for one at the 45 day mark, you would be the first. Oh wait, the 45 day window was the best thing in weeks, and now RCI ended it destroying the program and victimizing all the poor off season owners. But after reading your post you said that YOU NEVER ONCE USED THE 45 DAY WINDOW PERSONALLY. The 45 day window was so great that you never found a reason to use it. You are really grasping at straws



Carolinian said:


> You say I ''hate'' RCI.  I could turn that around and say that you are infatuated with RCI, but then that would be stooping to your all too common ad hominem attacks.





Carolinian said:


> You also do not seem to comprehend how supply and demand work.  Maybe you should find a community college that offers a refresher course in basic economics.  The key is the ratio between the total number of weeks availible from deposits and the total number of weeks people want to take as trades.  Why they want them as trades does not matter.  Award status is a minor driver of demand, way behind location, but that is all it is.  A change in award status is not going to impact supply at all, and will only marginally change demand.  Looking at the numbers rackets that RCI has conjured up both in Points and Points Lite, they often stand principles of supply and demand on their head.  Why?  Part of it has to do with their rental game, but another part has to do with pandering to developers still in sales, as RCI hopes to gain new members through them.



You are really something. You say that you don't like ad hominem attacks in one paragraph and in the next paragraph you say that I don't understand supply and demand and should find a community college to take a refresher course. Boy is that the pot calling the kettle black!  Often when you are losing a rational debate you resort to AD HOMINEM ATTACKS LIKE THIS.  You know how to spell ad hominem attacks, but identifying them in your own posts is a skill you need to work on.

You follow your attack on me with an economics lesson explaining to me that change in award status will not impact supply at all, and only marginally change demand. It is time for you to enroll in a community college economics 101 course because you apparently don't know the simple economics 101 equation which says that if you CHANGE THE DEMAND IT WILL CHANGE SUPPLY. You will learn that the first day. Perhaps you should read about basic economics before you try to teach it. Perhaps you should also quit using ad hominem attacks since you are so opposed to them.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 26, 2011)

You do not seem to understand that in the leisure travel industry, last minute inventory is distressed and therefore devalued inventory.  What something used to the worth back when there was still adequate time to market it is no longer applicable.  That is why last minute deposits of what used to be good weeks bring greatly reduced trading power, and it is also why exchanges into what used to be good weeks are done for greatly reduced trading power.  There was balance in the system.

When one compares values given to really hard to get places like St. John in winter, Bermuda in summer, French Riviera in August, Venice in warm season, Charleston, SC, etc. with overbuilt places whose developers have cozy relationships with RCI, it is extremely laughable to say that RCI's numbers are based on supply and demand.  But then again, with your long and tenacious defense of RCI's diverting exchange deposits to rent to the general public on these boards, it never surprises me to see you jump to RCI's defense on anything.  My own position is to support the individual member and the HOA first, and the exchange companies come way down the line after that.  Your positions have always been the reverse when it comes to RCI.

You probably even thinbk it is ethical for RCI to sucker buyers for years with their materials promoting the 45 day window, and in doing so place HOA's in heavy reliance on the 45 day window to keep those members, and then arrogantly pull the rug out from under both.





Mel said:


> Don't you find both of these statements to be at odd with each other?  RCI does not create value;  they are in the business of exchanging timeshare weeks.  TPU values are based on supply and demand - they raise the value offered for your deposit if they want to encourage you to deposit, they reduce it if they want to discourage your deposit.  They raise what they want for exchanges if there isn't enough supply - whoever is willing to pay the higher price gets the exchange.  The same applies when they reduce the price - they reduce it enough to get people to exchange into the inventory they have.  Why would they reduce it more if they don't have enough supply to meet the demand at that TPU level?
> 
> Just because an almost worthless blue studio week used to be able to trade for a 2BR in Hawaii at the last minute doesn't mean it should always remain that way.  There has to be a balance.  If there weren't others wanting that last-miute Hawaii week, perhaps it would drop low enough to exchange in for 5 points, but the demand is there.


----------



## Happytravels (Mar 26, 2011)

*depositing*



Mel said:


> When did you deposit the weeks you're trying to exchange?  When are you looking for exchanges?  If you deposited your weeks late, you're not going to get the full value for your deposit, and won't be able to exchange back into the same season.  Is RCI charging more for exchanges to your resort than they are offering for deposits?  I haven't seen that at any of the resorts I've looked at - in most cases they are offering more for a deposit at 12 months out than they require for an exchange.  And if you're looking for an exchange 3 or 4 months out, you get a significant discount.



These weeks have been deposited within the alloted time...All over a year in advance......searching for something within the next two years and very flexible with dates.........


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Mar 26, 2011)

The posts are too long to quote....but I do want to say 

Tombo - 

Your posts -  # 23, 24, & 26 in particular - are well thought out and well said.   

I concur 100% with all your points.

Carolinian - you clearly hate RCI.   These boards are about HELPING one-another to GET VALUE OUT OF WHAT WE HAVE.  

I concur with Tombo - perhaps its time that you quit RCI.   
Stick to the systems that you seem to love - answer those questions and try to HELP.  Stop  constantly telling those of us that are Happy or Content with RCI that we are wrong or "drank the koolaid" or crazy or anything else that you have called is in the past months.  There are those of us who WANT to HELP with RCI - questions asked by posters are lost among your tirades about RCIs.  

Now I am sure you will tell me that I "drank the koolaid" - which by the way I find personally offensive as I know how the expression started - or what ever else you have been calling us.

Bottom line - I LIKE RCI for ALL my weeks - I love the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE, and want to help others understand how to get the best use of what they have.


----------



## tombo (Mar 26, 2011)

sandkastle4966 said:


> The posts are too long to quote....but I do want to say
> 
> Tombo -
> 
> ...



Thanks for the support. I am not going to be baited into another debate with Carolinian on this thread no matter what he says. He can call me names, attack RCI, give misleading statements about the new program, but no matter what I will not respond to him on this thread again. Discussing the new weeks program or even RCI with Carolinian is simply a waste of time. He will never concede any of the good points. Perhaps we should all refuse to engage Carolinian in discussions until he actually joins TUG. 

I will gladly discuss pros and cons of combining with others. No question that the new weeks program is not a perfect system and there are things that I don't like, but the new system works for me SOOOO much better than the old system. I for one am thrilled with the new weeks program, the change back you often get in TPU's on trades, and the ability to combine leftover points and weeks. Now if RCI just won't go changing it because it is now IMO better than the points program.


----------



## Mel (Mar 27, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> You do not seem to understand that in the leisure travel industry, last minute inventory is distressed and therefore devalued inventory.  What something used to the worth back when there was still adequate time to market it is no longer applicable.  That is why last minute deposits of what used to be good weeks bring greatly reduced trading power, and it is also why exchanges into what used to be good weeks are done for greatly reduced trading power.  There was balance in the system.


Even last minute inventory has supply and demand factors.  RCI has clearly indicated that the demand for some inventory is still there at the last minute, and they will charge more TPU accordingly.  The same applies to last minute intentory in the rest of the leisure travel inventory.  Hotels don't discount their rooms to $10 at the last minute, just because you are a warm body - the better the hotel, the higher the price will be, even at 9pm, even when rooms are sitting empty.  


> When one compares values given to really hard to get places like St. John in winter, Bermuda in summer, French Riviera in August, Venice in warm season, Charleston, SC, etc. with overbuilt places whose developers have cozy relationships with RCI, it is extremely laughable to say that RCI's numbers are based on supply and demand.  But then again, with your long and tenacious defense of RCI's diverting exchange deposits to rent to the general public on these boards, it never surprises me to see you jump to RCI's defense on anything.  My own position is to support the individual member and the HOA first, and the exchange companies come way down the line after that.  Your positions have always been the reverse when it comes to RCI.


My position is that it is the responsibility of the owners at a given resort to figure out how to provide value to all the members, not RCI's.  RCI has always been sold as an add-on benefit.  Read the prospectus given to every owner when they buy a timeshare, and you will see the disclosure stating that the exchange program itself is not part of what you are buying, and offers no guarantees.   Support of the HOA and its members must come from within. 





> You probably even think it is ethical for RCI to sucker buyers for years with their materials promoting the 45 day window, and in doing so place HOA's in heavy reliance on the 45 day window to keep those members, and then arrogantly pull the rug out from under both.


RCI didn't "sucker" anyone.  They offered an exchange program, to be used with your vacation ownership.  I never believed I was entitled to something of significantly greater value than what I deposited.  RCI has the right to change the program, and the members have the right to not deposit their week with RCI.  Why should RCI be obligated to bring value to the resorts?  If the resort program doesn't make sense without the RCI component, then it doesn't make sense!


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 28, 2011)

It is not about hating anybody.  Tombo can call me names all he wants, but my position remains the same.  My concerns are for the individual members and for the financial survival of our HOA's.  Why do I care about the off season owners when I haven't owned a blue week myself for many years and never used the 45 day window when I did have one?  Simple.  As an HOA board member and president, I did a lot of analysis on resort economics.  I know what is going to happen to HOA budgets from RCI's trashing of the 45 day window, that RCI itself promoted for many years and suckered people into buying and resorts into depending upon.  Now RCI is sandbagging those owners and those HOA's.

If you came out ahead under the new regime, then good for you, but a great many did not, and it is hardly just the blue week owners.

Some of you who seem to beleive that RCI maximizing its profits on the backs of members and the HOA's they are sandbagging is more important than the financial survival of our HOA's and treating members fairly take the position that your opinion is the only one which counts and others should just shut up. Don't you recognise the shear arrogance in that?

I would also point out that unlikie the knee jerk positions of yourself, Tombo, and a couple of others who always support whatever it is that RCI does, I have posted hopes that RCI might get something right.  A good example is during the runup to Points Lite when we had two different people with ''inside information'' on the new system posting here.  One said that the published values would the the tops of ranges and the other said it would be exact numbers.  I posted on these boards that if the former were true the new system might not be so bad as it would still obviously keep the system of trading within a range or band.  Those hopes, unfortunately were dashed.  Losing the ability to trade within a band or range is a much bigger loss than anything gained from combining weeks, something those of you with your rose colored glasses just don't want to see.  Your group has been much more dogmatic on issues relating to RCI than I have.

People wanting to get value from what they own?  With RCI's changes, for many that means using II or the independents, as they will no longer get that from RCI.  You may not like that position, but the namecalling from people like Tombo is simply not going to stop me from expressing it.

One person quitting or staying?  That is insignificant.  The key to changes is waking up more people to make the move.  It is actions like Sloan Garden Court in London dumping RCI to use SFX for their exchanges instead.  It is resorts openly promoting use of independents as an alternative to RCI.  It is about resorts dual affiliating with II. It is about resorts dumpling RCI and moving to II as the Seasons chain and several US timeshare chains did.  Those are the proactive things that will make timesharing better as long as RCI remains on the negative path that Cendant / Wyndham placed it on some years ago.





sandkastle4966 said:


> The posts are too long to quote....but I do want to say
> 
> Tombo -
> 
> ...


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 28, 2011)

And just what created those demand factors for last minute inventory?  RCI's completely unethical practice (which you have consistently supported BTW) of renting exchange deposits to non-members is one way they have done it.  So RCI takes exchange deposits that their dues paying members would llike to have and instead rents them for cash to non-members, and helps dry up the 45 day window for its members in the process.  On top of that they create a bargain basement in the Weeks system's 45 day window for Points members to further dry up that inventory.  These outsiders from the Points system ought to be accessing last minute Points inventory at cheap points figures, not last minute Weeks inventory.  So by letting outsiders have access to Weeks 45 day inventory, they have reduced supply so they can start playing games of denying some of that inventory to bona fide Weeks members whom they encouraged with the promo materials they supplied to developers to sell off season weeks to use the 45 day windows.  If that is not sandbagging, then I do not know what would be,

Hotels are mostly not strictly leisure travel providers.  The dynamics are different for business travel, and any entity that is seeking any of the business travel market will behave differently.  And there are indeed ways to get last minute reductions at hotels that are having problems filling rooms.  If you are not savvy enough to be aware of them, I will let you search and find that on your own.

As to whether RCI's prospectus would protect them from any claims is an open question.  When viewed in conjunction with the materials they have long provided developers, it may well be part of the puzzle to do just the opposite and prove unfair or deceptive business practices in violation of state consumer protection laws.  That is particularly true when you learn that most state timeshare laws require a developer including an HOA to provide any timeshare purchaser, including one who has no interest or desire in joining RCI, with a copy of RCI's disclosure guide on its exchange system, if the resort is affiliated with RCI.  Those laws certainly imply that access to RCI is part of what a purchaser is buying even if they don't want to exchange.

Mel, you have been defending RCI for a long time, even back to the first time when my eyes were opened and I posted concerns about what they were doing.  That was when I made the very first post on TUG warning that RCI was going to start renting exchange deposits to the general public.  That was my interpretation, indeed the only reasonable interpretation, of some of the comments of the RCI rep in the TUG moderated chat led by Fern Modena on the old TUG board.  It was bolstered by the letter I posted in its entirety on the old TUG board addressed to resort affiliates from RCI's CEO where they talked vaguely of ''taking timesharing to the mass market''.  You were one of the original ''deniers'' and were one of the last holdout ''deniers'' after which you became a supporter of RCI's rental program to the general public.

I also remember when someone ran accross the special issue of the newsletter of the Seasons resort chain in Europe where they announced their leaving RCI and jumping ship to II over two issues I had long raised concerns about on TUG, RCI's rentals to the general public and the unfair relationship between Points and Weeks.  Seasons fired a withering broadside at RCI in their newsletter on both subjects.  Some on TUG said that it sounded so much like the issues I had been raising that I could almost have written it (I didn't).  You expressed your dislike of that article, too, as I recall.

As I recall, you also did not think RCI should be sued over its diverting exchange deposits to rent to the general public.  My own position was that RCI should indeed be sued but by a state attorney general, not a class action law firm.

You obviously care nothing about the HOA's.  RCI created the exchange system that their developers sold weeks under.  RCI created the 45 day window and provided the developers with materials promoting it to help them sell off season inventory.  The developer made his money and left.  Now the member-run HOA's have no sales force to sell that inventory in other ways.  They had nothing to do with creating this situation, but they are the ones left twisting in the breeze when RCI callously pulls the 45 day rug out from under them.  RCI never had the obligation to give value to resorts, but when it chose to do so, and to produce materials that were part of the blended developer / RCI sales pitch that very explicitely promoted it, then it chose a path where it has at the very least a moral and ethical obligation not to sandbag those who relied on it.  RCI and the developers, working together, created this situation.  The HOA's did not have anything to do with it.  For the most part they were not even yet functional at the time these sales were going on.

Some on the old Timeshare Beat  site contended that RCI's end game in its points program was to crash the smaller timeshares for the benefit of big boys.  I did not buy into that theory at the time, but what RCI is doing with Points Lite and some of their other changes makes that argument worth thinking about again.







Mel said:


> Even last minute inventory has supply and demand factors.  RCI has clearly indicated that the demand for some inventory is still there at the last minute, and they will charge more TPU accordingly.  The same applies to last minute intentory in the rest of the leisure travel inventory.  Hotels don't discount their rooms to $10 at the last minute, just because you are a warm body - the better the hotel, the higher the price will be, even at 9pm, even when rooms are sitting empty.
> My position is that it is the responsibility of the owners at a given resort to figure out how to provide value to all the members, not RCI's.  RCI has always been sold as an add-on benefit.  Read the prospectus given to every owner when they buy a timeshare, and you will see the disclosure stating that the exchange program itself is not part of what you are buying, and offers no guarantees.   Support of the HOA and its members must come from within. RCI didn't "sucker" anyone.  They offered an exchange program, to be used with your vacation ownership.  I never believed I was entitled to something of significantly greater value than what I deposited.  RCI has the right to change the program, and the members have the right to not deposit their week with RCI.  Why should RCI be obligated to bring value to the resorts?  If the resort program doesn't make sense without the RCI component, then it doesn't make sense!


----------



## vckempson (Apr 1, 2011)

Carolinian...  nothing lasts forever.  Just because someone was able to maximize (game) the system before doesn't mean they're entitled to forever.  If the strategy ceases to work then change.  I had 3 South Africa weeks for the last 12 years.  I gamed the system way beyond was was fair to others who paid big bucks for their weeks.  Guess what, no more.  No griping by me, though, just time to adapt.  My SA weeks are gone and I bought an Orlando July 4th 2 bdrm lockout for $1 on ebay and now get my 60 TPU's per year at under $750 a year in mf's.

If I can adapt, so can they.  I must agree with others.  RCI is a business.   To patronize them or not is your decision.  If you and the blue season owners want to stay, it's much better using all that bad mojo energy to learn how to best use the new system, make the needed changes, and enjoy some nice vacations.  All the BS griping only creates a hostile environment.  Those as unhappy as you appear to be should put their money where their mouth is and walk.  As for the blue weeks owners, if it's not working for them any more, then they need to change or walk as well.  That's just.. well, that's just life.


----------



## blueparrot (Apr 1, 2011)

The feature of combining weeks is just part of the new ''enhanced'' RCI trading system.  Looking at just that one feature, combining weeks, doesn't give the true picture, and one must look at the totality of the changes to see if they are beneficial.  Most of us are going to look at it based on our own situations and experience, which is just to be expected, not what is going to benefit other members, our HOA's, or the industry as a whole.

Now I have been doing a lot of analysis to see whether this really ''enhances'' my trading situation or not.  The base line is what we were able to trade for in the old system, and what I have been looking at is comparing what we could get then and what we get now.  I have done that based on the actual exchanges we made in the old system,  the exchange opportunites we saw regularly in the old system in the areas we like to trade into, and the TPU values of the new system.  At the end of the day, the key question is:  can we still get the same exchanges we could in the old system, or are they better or worse?  

We currently have five timeshare weeks at three resorts in different resort areas, all prime red weeks, with one resort Gold Crown and two of them Silver Crown.  At two resorts, the high season weeks very rarely appear as availible on the RCI website and even the off season weeks are even frequently unavailible to exchange into.  This is indicative of high demand.  The other resort only occaisionally has scattered high season inventory but usually has a fair amount of off season availible.  The weeks we own thus would be high demand, but the yearround demand for this resort would be less than the other two.

In making my comparisions, I found that for one resort, where we have one week, we could make every trade in the new system that we did in the old and every trade that I can remember seeing on search as well with the TPU's RCI now gives for our week.  The system change is a wash as to that week.  However on the other four weeks at two resorts, for over half of the trades we either actually traded into or saw availible online as trades we could have gotten would now cost 25% to 35% more TPU than what RCI would give us for our weeks.  So for 80% of our weeks that used to be an even one week for one week trade would now cost us one and a quarter or one and a third weeks, and an extra RCI combing fee to boot.  So instead of getting four comparable weeks out for four put in, we only get three comparable weeks out for the four we would put in.  The combining of weeks is not a plus when members find they have to do it for trades they used to get with only one week.

One of our resorts in on SFX's list of resorts and another also uses II, so there are alternatives out there.  I also like the things I read about HTSE and DAE.  We have always enjoyed the trades we have made with RCI and would like to continue but stability, continuity, dependability, and trust are key parts of the relationship, and we are no longer viewing RCI on these issues the same way we did even a year ago and it has gone even further downhill from the way we viewed RCI 8 or 10 years ago.

I guess the benefit of transparency is that now we can clearly see that we are getting much less from RCI in their ''enhanced'' system than in the old trading system.


----------



## vckempson (Apr 1, 2011)

Trying to compare what you can get now vs the old system is not as easy as it might seem.  The TPU's to make a trade are not static.  It changes by not only when the week is, but how far out you're looking to book, and what current demand is for that time and place.  Those factors are very fluid and can change week to week.  For certain, the availability that's perceived to be a 25% increase in trade cost, might well have been the same under the old system, once you take supply and demand issues into consideration.

To put it another way, the increased cost to get those weeks might, and I stress might, have nothing to do with the points lite system and more to do with the ongoing adjustments in value of unites based on forever changes in supply and demand.  Take my case.  What if RCI went to points lite at the same time as my South African weeks were devalued several years ago.  I'd likely blame it all on points lite.  But the real reason would have been a revaluation of the actual South African weeks themselves.


----------



## blueparrot (Apr 1, 2011)

While values have always gone up and down and that aspect is not new, having watched these things for years in the old system in terms of what our weeks would trade for, and having several months to watch the new system, the abrupt changes that occured in many values at the same time that "enhanced" weeks came in just don't fit with changes for supply and demand. Someone else posted some examples within the new system that are inconsistent with principles of supply and demand.


----------



## tombo (Apr 1, 2011)

blueparrot said:


> Most of us are going to look at it based on our own situations and experience, which is just to be expected, not what is going to benefit other members, our HOA's, or the industry as a whole.
> 
> .
> 
> ...



The new system allows you to see that one week will do everything you want it to, and the other 4 weeks will not. That is a great thing. In the past you had to wonder did you get weeks you can't get now because of luck, bulk deposits, the 45 day window, or was your week just able to get them always under the old system? Did some of the weeks you can no longer get become out of reach before the changeover and you just never knew that you could no longer get them? You will never know for sure because under the old system trading power was hidden and a secret. 

I traded for weeks in the past that many of my weeks will no longer see either, however I like that I now know what they will and won' trade for. To me that lets me know which weeks to use personally and which to deposit. It lets me know whcih weeks I need to consider selling and which weeks to buy. It lets me know everything I need to know to maximize the new system.

You now know to deposit your one good week with RCI, one lower valued RCI week with II, and one lower valued week with SFX to maximize your exchanges. Hopefully II and SFX have availability at resorts you want to exchange for. You also now know to use the other 2 yourself that SFX and II doesn't want for any reason and that RCI gives what you feel is not enough TPU's. What else would you need to know in the new program?

The main complaint we hear about the new program is what my week used to trade for. If weeks are undervalued and snatched up quickly they will receive more TPU's in the future. If they are overvalued and sit in inventory with no one exchanging for them they will be lowered in the future. RCI will have to factor in supply and demand because having no inventory at hot resorts they offered for too few TPU's is as bad to them as having a bunch of inventory idly sitting there priced too high at another resort.

Some Marriott owners love the new Marriott points. I feel like it is devaluing what we purchased and it is simply an extortion fee charged to current owners for no other reason than to make Marriott profit. I disliked what Marriott did with regards to their new points but I weighed the options and remained an owner because it was still worth it to me to own in the Marriott system. When they spun off the timeshare division I felt like they were headed in a direction that I did not like and it was to me the final straw. I did not continue to remain an owner while hating what the company was doing. I showed Marriott how I felt and sold my week. 


The new RCI program is not for everyone either. There is no such thing as a program they could have launched that everyone would have liked better. To most of us the new program is worth remaining a paying member, and for many of us it is more valuable than ever before. If the new program is not good for any RCI member, and not a value to them personally, then they should by all means quit RCI.


----------



## Carolinian (Apr 14, 2011)

vckempson said:


> Carolinian...  nothing lasts forever.  Just because someone was able to maximize (game) the system before doesn't mean they're entitled to forever.  If the strategy ceases to work then change.  I had 3 South Africa weeks for the last 12 years.  I gamed the system way beyond was was fair to others who paid big bucks for their weeks.  Guess what, no more.  No griping by me, though, just time to adapt.  My SA weeks are gone and I bought an Orlando July 4th 2 bdrm lockout for $1 on ebay and now get my 60 TPU's per year at under $750 a year in mf's.



The value in South Africa timeshare was the same as Australia timeshare, and that was the currency exchange rate, not timeshare trading considerations.  You may have gamed the exchange rate between rand and dollars, as those who bought in Australia did on the exchange rate between Oz dollars and US dollars, but those had absolutely nothing directly to do with the supply and demand for timeshares in the timeshare exchange system.  It did eventually indirectly as it encouraged people to buy both places to deposit in the exchange system and gradually led to more exchange deposits relative to those who owned to use.  Still the tables published in the European version of the RCI directory continue to show that South Africa has a stronger demand over supply ratio than Florida.

Now the currency exchange markets are singing a different tune.  The Oz dollar which used to be about 2 to the US $ are now more valuable than the US version.  Those who bought in Australia for cheap timeshare fees are now in an entirely different boat.  It has been less dramatic in South Africa, but the dollar has fallen against the rand as well, and SA levies (m/f's) are no longer the bargain that they used to be.  The way the US$ is headed, it may be that before long those elsewhere in the world will be buying cheap timeshare in the US to take advantage of the weak dollar.  At the time that South Africa and Australia were so popular, _The Economist_ magazine rated the Oz $ as the most undervalued currency in the developed world and the SA rand as the most undervalued currency of all countries in the world.

So, now you move to buy in one of the most overbuilt areas for timeshare in the world at a resort whose values are artificially inflated due to the tight relationship between RCI and the developer, and the resort that a respected longtime Tugger who worked for RCI told us had the larger oversupply of inventory of any resort in the RCI system.  Maybe those values will last for a while, but who knows?


----------



## Carolinian (Apr 14, 2011)

vckempson said:


> Carolinian...
> If I can adapt, so can they.  I must agree with others.  RCI is a business.   To patronize them or not is your decision.  If you and the blue season owners want to stay, it's much better using all that bad mojo energy to learn how to best use the new system, make the needed changes, and enjoy some nice vacations.  All the BS griping only creates a hostile environment.  Those as unhappy as you appear to be should put their money where their mouth is and walk.  As for the blue weeks owners, if it's not working for them any more, then they need to change or walk as well.  That's just.. well, that's just life.



You adapt one way, and do not seem to want to respect those of us who choose to adapt a different way.  When they came out with New Coke, I adapted by drinking Pepsi.  (Of course Coke had the good sense to get rid of New Coke.)  Timeshare is the same.  The best way to adapt is move to companies with a higher trust factor, and that is the independent exchange companies.  You promote your adaptation, which is to buy at a resort that is grossly overvalued in RCI because of the tight relationship between the developer and RCI, and I will promote mine, which is to move deposits to independent exchange companies.  What some of those who think RCI is the best thing since sliced bread just cannot seem to get over is that I am an advocate of being proactive to try to help move as many resorts and members away from the corrupt numbers racket of RCI as possible.  And, of course, another way to adapt is to make use of RCI's corrupt rentals program.  I have been advocating using RCI that way as there are some cheap deals availlible from RCI rentals.  Of course, they are screwing the exchange system with those rentals, but who cares when one is not exchanging through them any more?


----------



## vckempson (Apr 14, 2011)

I just don't understand the vitriol against RCI.  I'm not defending them, but just trying to focus my time and energy so it's productive for me.  

TS trading companies are businesses that have a product/service that consumers judge as to whether it's worth the cost for the benefit received.  Do they maybe cross the line when it comes to ethics, fairness or legality?  Maybe they do.  Ultimately, though, if they don't make a profit, they won't be around to offer even a nibble to us.   Either way, though, the decision process is still pretty much the same,  "do we pay to play or not, and with whom.  

As for RCI transparency, there's a limit to what's reasonable to expect.  They have no obligation or need to share with us the nuances of how they determine TPU values as long as we know what the values are.  The new system is plenty transparent for most of us and includes the needed information to make decisions.  It seems more transparent to me than the alternatives out there, but admittedly I don't know much about the others.

As for adapting, it's clearly different strokes for different folks.  For most it involves becoming informed, assessing alternatives, making a decision and moving forward.  Part of moving forward is leaving the past in the past.  We are all free to adpapt in our own way, including you.  Quite frankly, it's seems you're the one not open to my way of adapting, which it to make the best of the TPU system that I can.

As for you,  I'm not real clear how you're adapting other than mostly complaining.  If rentals work for you, I applaud you and encourage more of it.  Not all, though, are that miserable with RCI.  I'm quite ok with all the changes they've made, but that's just me.  One thing's for sure.  All the b*tching, moaning and groaning  doesn't do anything other than sap the joy out of life.


----------



## Carolinian (Apr 14, 2011)

Maybe you did not understand those who were behind the class action lawsuit against RCI over their skimming the exchange pool for rentals to the general public.  Yes, the class action attorneys they used turned out to be shysters who sold out them and the class for a far legal fee, but some of those involved other than the attorneys did it for principle to right the wrongs that RCI was imposing on its members. One of the lead plaintiffs was very active here and on other boards as an RCI sceptic, and has not come back since the lawsuit.  I guess he was embarassed by the lawyer sell out.  One of the original organizers who helped recruit the lead plaintiffs in one of the two original lawsuits also used to be active here, but again since the outcome of the lawsuit, she has not been much in evidence here any more either.

My own adjustment has been to quit feeding RCI my summer UK weeks and to split them between DAE and SFX instead.  Due to the rental issue, I had already fed the majority of my trades to DAE, and never kept more than one deposit in the RCI spacebank at a time.  Adding SFX gives me some new options, including London, where they have a resort that dumped RCI to use SFX instead.  I may add HTSE, largely for its access to UKRE.  But it is about more than just individual choices.  It is also about being proactive and spreading the word about alternatives to RCI and the reasons why timesharers should consider the alternatives.

Some people are such company loyalists that they resent consumer activists.  We have seen some of those here.  But it happens frequently.  I contributed to and participated in the Save SkyMiles campaign to try to reverse some of the anti-consumer ''enhancements'' to the SkyMiles program at Delta.  I think the website is still up at www.saveskymiles.com .  There were company loyalists blasting that effort on Flyertalk, but the Save SkyMiles effort continued and after a couple of years, Delta waived a white flag and reversed all of the ''enhancements'' we objected to.  Of course, by then, I had personally comped my only elite ff status over to NW and I stayed with them.  I would never have switched from DL if they had not forced me out with their ''enhancements'' but it made me look around and I discovered that actually NW was a much better airline.

This concern about RCI's profits is really humorous!  Have you looked at their profits?  They have been doing just fine without skimming exchange deposits for rentals or scrambling the exchange system.

As to RCI's transparency, I have been saying for years that the worst of both worlds would be partial transparency where the end numbers are published but the process of establishing is not, as this creates  both the motive (published results) and the opportunity (unpublished process) to cook the books, and that is exactly what has happened.  Those who have supported partial transparency have predominaantly been connected to timeshare in overbuilt areas like Orlando, which due to oversupply would see low numbers in a fully transparent system based on supply and demand.  I can understand why take that position given the loss of trading power that full transparency would bring their area.  The thing that cries out for full transparency is the fact that at the same instant, RCI can give widely divergent values for the same timeshare week depending on whether it is a deposit or an exchange.  An honest and transparent system would not do this.




vckempson said:


> I just don't understand the vitriol against RCI.  I'm not defending them, but just trying to focus my time and energy so it's productive for me.
> 
> TS trading companies are businesses that have a product/service that consumers judge as to whether it's worth the cost for the benefit received.  Do they maybe cross the line when it comes to ethics, fairness or legality?  Maybe they do.  Ultimately, though, if they don't make a profit, they won't be around to offer even a nibble to us.   Either way, though, the decision process is still pretty much the same,  "do we pay to play or not, and with whom.
> 
> ...


----------



## vckempson (Apr 14, 2011)

I respect where you are coming from but I disagree with some of your conclusions.   My time and the value I place upon it, though, don't allow me to be as concerned and disturbed as you.  For me, all is good and I'll work the system as best I can.  That opinion, weather mine alone or shared by others should be respected as well.  Enough said.


----------



## bnoble (Apr 14, 2011)

Cullen, you must be new here.

Carolinian (a.k.a. Steve) hates RCI with a white hot passion---one that is eclipsed only by his hatred for Delta.  As far as Steve is concerned, RCI spends every waking moment thinking about how to actively undermine the entire timeshare industry.  If pressed, he would probably be prepared to explain that RCI also drowns puppies.  

He has some justification for this hatred---RCI's hands are certainly not clean, not by a longshot.  But if you don't agree with him that RCI is 110% evil, you are quickly lumped into "the RCI-can-do-no-wrong" club.  It's not a small club, we have cookies, and generally welcome new members with open arms.

A few people make a point of trying to rebut Steve's posts from time to time.  I used to be one of those people.  Now, I generally ignore him.  Life is too short.


----------



## vckempson (Apr 14, 2011)

Clearly I'm too new to know better.  I think I'll follow your lead BNoble and just stay out of the way.


----------



## Carolinian (Apr 15, 2011)

Your problem is that you confuse the good of RCI with ''the whole timeshare industry''.  What is undermining the whole timeshare industry right now are 1) the PCC's and 2) new RCI policies like rentals and Points Lite.

Having served many years as an HOA board member and president, I tend to look at the industry much more broadly than many Tuggers. Prior to being highjacked by Cendent / Wyndham, RCI's business plan dovetailed nicely with that of HOA's and they were mutually supportive.  That was positive to the industry.  The new masters of RCI, however, took a new path of throwing HOA's under the bus to get a little extra profit for themselves no matter how much damage to others in the industry this caused.  Members are in a little different position as some came out ahead in the changes and some got hosed.

The real problem is that RCI is a quasi monopoly, at least at resorts that are not dual affiliated with II, and the timeshare industry would be a lot better off if there was more competition in the system.  One of the proactive positions I have advocated for years is suggested members press their HOA's for 1) dual affiliation with II, and 2) promoting knowledge of the independents and how to use them.  It is also necessary to get people to understand just how RCI's new policies are adverse to them so that they will recognize the need to push their resorts.

If you had been around earlier on Tug, Brian, you might remember that I was getting bashed years ago for my positions on RCI rentals and points, and then the Seasons chain in Europe announced that they were bailing out of RCI and joining II, and in their newsletter edition announcing the move, they fired a withering broadside at RCI over the very things I was saying on TUG, pointing out the damage of RCI policies to members and to the industry.  Two major US-based chains shortly thereafter followed them to II.

If you had followed the Timeshare Stripped Bare conference last year in the UK, you would be aware that several major developers there raised the same concerns that I have been raising here.  

But, so ahead, keep your rose colored glasses on and your smug attitude.

If I were to throw the personal grenades you do, I guess I could accuse you of spending every waking minute trying to fiugre out ways to brownnose RCI.






bnoble said:


> Cullen, you must be new here.
> 
> Carolinian (a.k.a. Steve) hates RCI with a white hot passion---one that is eclipsed only by his hatred for Delta.  As far as Steve is concerned, RCI spends every waking moment thinking about how to actively undermine the entire timeshare industry.  If pressed, he would probably be prepared to explain that RCI also drowns puppies.
> 
> ...


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Apr 15, 2011)

I am quite happy with RCI.  When I am not, I will do the same thing I did with other services I did not like - quit and use an alternative !

Move on.


----------

