# Has Hilton/HGVC reduced the value of the resort points or the HH points like Marriott



## korndoc (Aug 27, 2009)

I have not been on this Hilton Forum for awhile so please update me.  Has Hilton/HGVC reduced the value of the resort points and the HHonors points like Marriott has?  

For instance, do you still get 23 hotel points per HGVC point if you convert all of your HGVC points by 12/31 in the previous year? 20 points if your wait?

Can you still get 6 nights in a category 6 hotel for 175,000 HHonors points with the VIP-Only Vacation reward for HHonors members with VIP status?  And are category 6 hotels still great, or has Hilton fiddled with the value of the categories?

How many HGVC points must you have to get a standard 2 bedroom timeshare?  It used to be 7000 points.  Has that increased to 8400 or 9000 now?

Thanks, 
Jeff


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## JonathanIT (Aug 27, 2009)

korndoc said:


> I have not been on this Hilton Forum for awhile so please update me. *Has Hilton/HGVC reduced the value of the resort points and the HHonors points like Marriott has?*
> 
> For instance, *do you still get 23 hotel points per HGVC point* if you convert all of your HGVC points by 12/31 in the previous year? 20 points if your wait?


The value of HGVC points has actually _increased_ in the last couple years for conversion to HHonors points.  It is now 25:1 (HHonors:HGVC) instead of 23:1 when done in advance.  It is still 20:1 when making the conversion for use in the current use year.  I think this happened in late 2007 IIRC (became effective for 2008 points conversion).


> Can you still get 6 nights in a category 6 hotel for 175,000 HHonors points with the VIP-Only Vacation reward for HHonors members with VIP status?  And are category 6 hotels still great, or has Hilton fiddled with the value of the categories?


The 175K point VIP reward rate has not changed for Cat. 6 hotels, and 150K pts for Cat. 5 and under.  The only change has been that some properties have been rebranded as Waldorf=Astoria collection hotels so they are now in a different category requiring more points (the rates vary by property and season).  There aren't many, however that were changed.  The Rome Cavalieri is the only popular one that comes to mind.


> How many HGVC points must you have to get a standard 2 bedroom timeshare?  It used to be 7000 points.  Has that increased to 8400 or 9000 now?


The rates to book "standard" HGVC units in existing properties with HGVC points has not changed, nor will it ever.  I.E: if you purchased a two-bedroom unit in a platinum week for 7,000 points, that unit will never cost more than 7,000 points to book for seven days.  This is what you paid for.

What has changed are "premium" units in newer properties (Grand Waikikian HHV, West 57th NYC), which have entirely different point structures.  These newer properties claim to have higher levels of build quality, amenities and service.

I feel that overall HGVC has maintaned its value well over the last few years, IMHO. I have no complaints.


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## pianodinosaur (Aug 27, 2009)

I agree with JonathanIT.  HHonors has clearly increased in value.  Furthermore, HGVC treats people who purchase resale and pay the MFs far better than Marriott or Starwood.  I participate in SPG and Marriott rewards because sometimes I need to stay at Marriott or Starwood hotels. The rewards accumulate much faster in HHonors.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 27, 2009)

*Regarding Hilton hotel stays* 
See the STICKY at the top of the HGVC FORUM for the latest HHonors information.

All airline frequent flyer, credit card reward and hotel reward programs go through point devaluation and some are more frequent than others. 

A great hotel exchange deal today may not be a great deal tomorrow due to the following
(1) Maintenance Fees will increase over time decreasing the exchange value
(2) HHONOR reward point requirement will increase over time which will eventually impact the number of hotel reward nights 
(3) Per the HGVC Member Guide, the HGVC to HHonors conversion rate is subject to change without notice and the benefits available through these programs are subject to change, suspension or discontinuation at any time without prior notice. 

It's better to take advantage of the hotel reward stays using HGVC convert points sooner rather than later.

For discussions on frequent flyer, credit card and hotel reward programs visit the Flyertalk boards - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-points-1/

See these old threads regarding HHonors point devaluation:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/129148-hilton-devaluation-deflating-point-values.html 
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...s-reward-category-changes-900-properties.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...gory-6-now-145-000-points-orig-125-000-a.html

*Regarding HGVC resort stays*
In 2006, HGVC introduced the next generation of resorts which will require more HGVC points. However as stated above, so far this has only impacted the following three new HGVC properties: W57 NewYork, Grand Waikikian at HHV on Oahu and Kingsland at Waikoloa Village on the Big Island. The newest Orlando resort Parc Soleil is under the old point structure.

See these old threads
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31433
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94089

*JMHO*...I suggest only buying enough points depending on how often you want to stay at the HGVC developed resorts in Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii and using the other club usage options whenever you want something different from time to time.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 27, 2009)

*A little Hilton HHonors history...*

Years ago, HHonors had the following VIP awards
ALON - Six free nights for two at a Hilton Hawaiian resort for 100K 
TEEN - Six free nights for two at selected HHonors golf resorts in the U.S. 100k 
GLON - Six free nights for two at participating HHonors hotels worldwide for 100K
GLONP - Six free nights for two at participating Premium HHonors hotels worldwide for 150k GLONP 
NOTE: Back then a lot of the Hilton Properties fell into the GLON bucket. So one could easy book a stay worldwide for 100,000 HHonor points. A one bedroom platinum owner (4800 HGVC Points) could convert their HGVC to HHonors points to get the six night VIP award for 100,000 points.

However June 1, 2003, HHonors VIP award levels were increased and in addition many top resorts/hotels moved into the highest award level category requiring 175,000 HHonors points (instead of 100,000 or 150,000 HHonors point)
ALON2 - Six free nights for two at Hilton Waikoloa Village or Hilton Hawaiian Village for 175k
TEEN2 - Six free nights for two at selected HHonors golf resorts in the U.S.A. for 175k
GLON2 - Six free nights for two at participating HHonors hotels worldwide for 150k
GLONP2 - Six free nights for two at participating Premium HHonors hotels worldwide for 175k
NOTE: This severe devaluation impacted both Hilton HHonors members and HGVC members.

Old flyertalk threads regarding the old awards and the 2003 changes
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/126000-using-glon-award-europe.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...left-under-old-chart-what-you-guys-doing.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/130043-new-hh-reward-categories-1-through-6-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...w-higher-hhonors-award-levels-6-1-2003-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...-questions-information-definitive-thread.html

*Today, we have the same basic award levels however hotel categories continue to change and additional award codes have been added.*
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18628
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24721
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90883

*The latest HHonors information can be found under the STICKY thread at the top of the TUG HGVC forum *- http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=684442&postcount=3


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## bobemac (Aug 27, 2009)

How did you forget this Hilton Honors/AMEX award;

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90868


  I've used this award several times. It's still a good deal.


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## pianodinosaur (Aug 27, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> *A little Hilton HHonors history...*
> 
> Years ago, HHonors had the following VIP awards
> ALON - Six free nights for two at a Hilton Hawaiian resort for 100K
> ...



AlwaysonVac:

Thanks for the history lesson.  I have been with HGVC since 2001.  However, I really did not pay much attention to HHonors until I started redeeming points in 2003.  I did not acquire a HHonors AmEx until 2004. This made the points accumulate very fast. The main reason I think HHonors has become more valuable is the creation of so many new resorts in the past five years.  Most of these new resorts are Category 5 or Category 6.  I was very disappointed to see Rome Cavalieri become part of the Waldorf collection because that truly is a devaluation of my points. I was also very disappointed to see the Hilton Rhodes Resort sold to another company. However, Hilton now has several resorts in French Polynesia and has opened several new resorts in Puerto Rico and a resort in Kauai.  We had the opportunity to visit the new Hilton Whistler BC during our TS exchange to Club Intrawest Whistler last year.  It is absolutely lovely.  

I learned this year how difficult it is to get a TS exchange to Barbados so I expanded the search to include Sint Maarten and St. Lucia.  However, there is a category 6 Hilton resort in Barbados. So, if we don't get Barbados in 2010 with our banked RCI points, we can always go in 2011 to the Hilton resort. 

Then again, there is nothing to prevent Hilton from making the resorts in French Polynesia and Barbados part of the Waldorf collection. Once again, I enjoyed your post and learned a great deal.


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## JonathanIT (Aug 28, 2009)

pianodinosaur said:


> Then again, there is nothing to prevent Hilton from making the resorts in French Polynesia and Barbados part of the Waldorf collection. Once again, I enjoyed your post and learned a great deal.


Hilton just took over the Bora-Bora Nui resort from Starwood this year, and it is a Cat. 6 Hilton.  I can't see Hilton changing the brand anytime soon; it seems they would have already designated it a W=A if they had wanted to.  It looks gorgeous; I'd love to book a stay!


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## AKE (Aug 28, 2009)

We were at the Hilton in Tahiti (Papeetee) and Moorea in February, just after they had been taken over from Starwood (I booked with SPG points and Hilton honored the reservations).  When compared to North American hotels, I would rate the Papeetee hotel as 3*+ and the Moorea one (all individaul huts) a 4*+.  The real downside was that toursim was almost non-existent so the resorts were empty and as such, not many activites, etc although the hotels did keep the restaurants and bars open (but minimal entertainment). Food was ludicrous - a cocktail around $25, a basic caesar salad $25,  etc. The only time we saw people at the bar was happy hour where drinks were half price.  These ludicrous prices applied to all of Tahiti, not just the hotels where we stayed at.  The upside - the unbelievable water colors, the snorkelling,  swimming with sharks and rays, etc etc.


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## korndoc (Aug 29, 2009)

Thanks everyone. Thanks for all the links.  I have a lot of reading to do this weekend.  

Apparently, periodic devaluation is to be expected so if I buy in to any of the programs, I should accept it and move on. (per alwysonvac, "All airline frequent flyer, credit card reward and hotel reward programs go through point devaluation and some are more frequent than others.")  Hopefully the Hilton programs won't devalue as much, or as quickly.  Pretty hefty devaluation in 2003, however.  Thanks for the history lesson, alwysonvac. VERY informative.  Nice to hear Hilton members still appreciating the product, inspite of these devaluations.  You should read how angry many of the Marriott owners are, specifically those who paid full retail from Marriott so they could get the points, only to have them devalued now.  At least Hilton doesn't discriminate against us re-sale purchasers.

I have a question for alwysonvac.  Please explain what you meant when you said:  





alwysonvac said:


> *Regarding Hilton hotel stays*  *JMHO*...I suggest only buying enough points depending on how often you want to stay at the HGVC developed resorts in Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii and using the other club usage options whenever you want something different from time to time.



Thanks,
Jeff


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## alwysonvac (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm glad folks found the HHonors history info helpful.  I was trying to show why buying HGVC points for hotels stays is not a good long term strategy.



korndoc said:


> Nice to hear Hilton members still appreciating the product, inspite of these devaluations.  You should read how angry many of the Marriott owners are, specifically those who paid full retail from Marriott so they could get the points, only to have them devalued now.


I think HGVC owners who paid full retail from Hilton purposely for HHonors points were also angry back in 2003. HGVC was marketing heavily to HHonors members. I'm sure those HHonors members who paid full retail were also angry when the 2003 devaluation occurred.  Actually in 2003, I bought a one bedroom platinum week from one of those angry owners. They bought purposely for hotel exchanges for international traveling and just wanted to get rid of it after the HHonors devaluation. 

I think it also helps that the TUG HGVC forum doesn't have a lot of vocal TUG members or threads encouraging folks to buy HGVC points purposely for hotel stays or Elite status. I also don't think we have that many TUG members that were using HHonors before the 2003 devaluation occurred.

I still use my HGVC points occassionally for international hotel stays. Currently it's still a good value for hotels with high nightly rates. As TUG member Pianodinosaur pointed out the hilton family of hotels/resorts are constantly changing -  www.hiltonfamily.com. Some of my favorites left such as the Paris Eiffel Tower Hilton and the London Langham Hilton however others have been added such as the Hilton Arc de Triomphe Paris hotel and the Trafalgar London.

See these old HHonors threads (they're also listed in the STICKY thread at the top of the HGVC forum)
Any restrictions with Hilton Hotels -  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90256
Homewood Suites a Mini HGVC? - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91184



korndoc said:


> I have a question for alwysonvac.  Please explain what you meant when you said:
> _"JMHO...I suggest only buying enough points depending on how often you want to stay at the HGVC developed resorts in Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii and using the other club usage options whenever you want something different from time to time"_


HGVC has developer built resorts and affiliate resorts. We have HGVC developer built resorts in New York, Orlando, South Beach, Las Vegas, Oahu and the Big Island. HGVC currently has no plans to build outside their core markets (Hawaii, Las Vegas, Orlando and New York City). NOTE: The South Beach property is very small (52 units) and the New York property has a different reservation window (only available for internal trade 44 days before check-out). 
Sadly, HGVC has more affiliate resorts than HGVC developed resorts. Since affiliate agreements can change/end, HGVC developer resorts are the only ones that will be available to HGVC members in the long run. Most of the HGVC Club Partner Perks are not setup to save you money. It just allows members to apply some of their HGVC expense towards other vacation options.

See these old HGVC threads (they're also listed in the STICKY thread at the top of the HGVC forum)
New resorts being built or added - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99611
Limited Availability at some Affiliated Resorts - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=474720&postcount=4
How much is enough?? - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94089


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## kayaker (Sep 8, 2009)

*hotel ripoff*

Don't be fooled.  Booking a Hilton hotel with points is no bargain, just a way to use your points or lose them.  I Booked the Stucky Hilton for 3 nights in Venice last year and 3 nights @ the Hilton Copenhagen Airport this year.  With my HGVC maintenance fees @ ~$1000 the points to book the hotel stays were worth ~$700 each.  I could have booked the rooms on my own for about 1/2 that amount.  Also, these hotels provide free breakfasts for guest, not if using points though.  You get the privelege of booking rooms for twice their worth and pay $30 for 2 breakfasts each morning after buying a HGVC timeshare.  

Ripoff. YES.

Paul


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## Socko33 (Sep 8, 2009)

Th HHonors can be worth it depending on how you use them!

With the GLON rewards and with the AMEX 4night rewards...it can definitely be worth it...especially with the Hilton AmEx and $400+/night hotels.

Just have to do the math out and save up points for longer stays!


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## pianodinosaur (Sep 8, 2009)

I think HHonors is an excellent program all by itself.  I think that converting HGVC points to HHonors in many instances is not the best use of HGVC points.  Then again, I like cruising and have used HGVC points for cruises, which is not always the best use of these points from a strictly monetary point of view either. We have not yet converted HGVC points to HHonors, but have accumulated HHonors points by staying at Hilton Family Hotels and using the Hilton AmEx. It takes about 1 1/2 years to 2 years to accumulate enough points for a six or seven night stay at a category 5 or category 6 resort.  This is much faster than with Marriott Rewards or Starwood Preferred. 

So, if you have your heart set on skiing in Whistler, British Columbia and cannot exchange into a TS, you may find it much easier to book a stay at the Hilton Whistler.  If you need to convert HGVC points to HHonors points to have enough points for a GLON6, do what it takes to make you happy. I dare say, the same reasoning would apply to The Embassy Suites in South Lake Tahoe.


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## JonathanIT (Sep 9, 2009)

kayaker said:


> Don't be fooled.  Booking a Hilton hotel with points is no bargain, just a way to use your points or lose them.  I Booked the Stucky Hilton for 3 nights in Venice last year and 3 nights @ the Hilton Copenhagen Airport this year.  With my HGVC maintenance fees @ ~$1000 the points to book the hotel stays were worth ~$700 each.  I could have booked the rooms on my own for about 1/2 that amount.  Also, these hotels provide free breakfasts for guest, not if using points though.  You get the privelege of booking rooms for twice their worth and pay $30 for 2 breakfasts each morning after buying a HGVC timeshare.
> 
> Ripoff. YES.


I don't think it's fair to say that the HHonors point usage for HGVC points is a "ripoff" because you didn't plan properly and decided on a booking a hotel where the value was poor.

Using HGVC points for HHonors stays by no means has to occur only in a situation of "use your points of lose them."  _Any_ situation like that is bound to lead to disappointment; proper planning and point management will prevent such a scenario for any HGVC member.

With proper planning, HHonors stays can be used for very good value, in locations where a TS stay would be impossible.  I had a reservation booked this last August for Monterey, CA at the Monterey Hilton Garden Inn for the weekend of the Pebble Beach Concours D'Elegance and Monterey Historic Races at Laguna Seca.  This is one of the highest demand event weekends at any resort anywhere; the rattiest, worn out motels in the area easily jack their prices up to $300/night.  The HGI had a rate of over $359/night and sold out.  

I was able to get a 6 night GLON HHonors VIP award stay for 150K pts (6,000 HGVC pts).  The stay would have cost over $2,300 with tax. And for HGVC points with an annual MF&T cost of about $642.  I'd say that's a pretty good deal.  Alas, I had to cancel for a family commitment (which is another benefit: a very liberal cancellation policy, just 48 hrs notice and the points were returned to me).

Of course, I banked HHonors points in advance and planned ahead.  HHonors points have no expiration, if the account is active.  Save them for stays that are worth it!

They can be a good value and great perk when used properly.


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