# [2013] Latest HH points devaluation



## Remy (Feb 26, 2013)

The latest round of Hilton HHonors point devaluations makes exchanging your HGVC points for HH points an (even more) awful proposition. Even the W 57th St 1:50 ratio makes little sense.

Hilton currently has 7 categories of hotel with Cat 7 requiring 50,000 points for a night. The new HH effective March 28, 2013 will have 10 categories with "seasonal rates" that reach 95,000 HH points per night. 

For instance, I just booked the DoubleTree Suites on Times Square for New Years. It was 50,000 points per night. Under the new category structure it is 95,000 HH points per night. Almost double.

The average 2br Plat owner of 7,000 HGVC points will now be able to reserve 1 night in a standard room at a category 10 property if points are exchanged at 1:25. 

Even the 5th Night Free is a worse deal than the previous VIP Award that it replaces.

http://hhonors3.hilton.com/en/promotions/program-changes/english.html?wt.mc_id=CMEM_BRI9PoB8wONwGy


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## Roadrashrepairman (Feb 27, 2013)

The latest round of Hilton HHonors point devaluations also   devaluations your HGVC points  as well. The value of exchange and flexibility make or break the intrinsic nature of a sound time share.  What we are seeing and I hope I'm wrong is the move away from customer and brand loyalty to
how much can we charge them now.


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## bogey21 (Feb 28, 2013)

It doesn't matter if it is the airlines or the hotel and timeshare chains, they all suck you in and have or will devalue your benefits.  The big difference is that many paid a lot of money for the privilege of being screwed by the TS chains.

George


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## SmithOp (Feb 28, 2013)

its typical nowadays, more concerned about shareholder value than customer satisfaction.


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## amisco (Feb 28, 2013)

*At least they have not found a way to devalue the week you own...*

Actually I think that the HGVC point system is somewhat a hedge of the devaluation of HHonors and price increases for those properties ... While they can increase our MFs... they cannot take away the week you own and would have a hard time changing the points for existing properties.  They have, as we have all noticed, that there is point inflation on their new properties and acquisition.  But if you have followed the often recommended strategy of buying where you want to go the impact of the changes are somewhat IMHO hedged.


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## night0wl (Mar 1, 2013)

Wonder what this means for Hilton Amex users and the AXON7 and AXON6 codes.


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## Remy (Mar 1, 2013)

night0wl said:


> Wonder what this means for Hilton Amex users and the AXON7 and AXON6 codes.



I was told AXON ends March 28. No idea if it's replaced by something else yet, but I'd be surprised if something didn't replace it. 

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me. I'm bailing on the Hilton rupiah and moving over to Hyatt and SPG for hotel stays. I did a status challenge on each so there's no transition loss of benefits. Hyatt requires top status in another program and 12 nights in three months to match it to Diamond. SPG requires 18 nights in any 3 calendar month period selected in advance to achieve their highest status (Platinum) through a challenge. I'll still have Hilton Gold in 2014 from stays earlier this year so if this turns out to be a bad idea i can come back without losing free internet and breakfast and an occasional upgrade.


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## Remy (Apr 27, 2013)

Here's the new AXON award setup from Hilton Worldwide. I'm currently visiting their HQ in Tyson's at FTU.

http://www.loyaltyhacker.com/hotels/hilton-hhonors/hilton-axon-awards-begin-to-suck-june-15/

It, like their overall award chart, is a major devaluation. If you're in HGVC the conversion to HHONORS points makes even less sense than before.

Top properties that went for 145,000 points for 4 nights can now be as high as 300,000 points for 4 nights. In most cases, using a regular redemption with 5th night free is a better deal. Only in cases where you just want 4 nights in peak season will AXON make sense.


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## DaveC (Apr 28, 2013)

Wow!!! That is horrible. The Hilton in ocean city changed from category 7 to category 9 . So, 4 nights went from 145K to 260K points. What a ripoff! I can understand them making some changes but this is ridiculous. That is almost double.I guess I'll have to let my wallet do the talking and not stay at hilton hotels. What's next? An annual tax on our points because we need to pay our fair share?


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## dougp26364 (Apr 28, 2013)

I guess HHonors is just following Marriott's example. Marriott also recently added a higher catagory and moved hotels around, further devalueing their rewards points systems.

I've said it for years that it's foolish to buy a timeshare based on any conversion rate for hotel rooms. Unlike a deeded week that guarentees you can occupy a certain room size and classification every year, hotel rewards programs are built on shifting sands allowing for undesirable changes at the chains discretion.

We have seen many devaluations in both Hilton's and Marriott's programs since we first purchased a Marriott week in 2001. Both Marriott's and Hilton's programs have been devalued to the point we don't even use their credit card programs anymore nor will I take a tour based on an offer of hotel rewards points. 

Eventually they'll devalue these programs to the point where they are no longer attractive to frequent travelers. When that finally happens, they'll have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Loyalty will be striclty on a price. My belief is they'll become like the airlines where many travelers base decisions strictly on price, leading to cut rate wholesale pricing that leaves the business always on the edge of barely being profitable to facing bankruptcy if one little thing goes wrong. 

It's to bad the future can be lost just to make the bottom line today. Then again, those making the decision today can pad their resume with what looks like a success story and some other CEO gets stuck with the losing hand in the game of musical chairs so many companies play with top level management.


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## piyooshj (Apr 28, 2013)

It is no longer attractive anymore to book hotel via club points.


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## bogey21 (Apr 28, 2013)

Marriott, Hilton, et al.   Corporate profits rule, the customer be damned.  As many of you know I sold my Marriott Weeks when this crap started many years ago.  Looking back it was a great move.

George


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## pianodinosaur (Apr 29, 2013)

A customer loyalty program that becomes devalued is less likely to engender the good will of loyal customers.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 29, 2013)

I booked 2 nights in Bora Bora and 8 nights in Maldives just before the point devaluation, to burn though all of my points.  I still stay at Hilton regularly, but only because it is the easiest location my to client office when I am in the London area.


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## LisaH (Apr 29, 2013)

I guess I have not followed on the devaluation news until now. I just burned some of my Marriott points before it's being devalued on May 16th. What would be the best use of Hilton points now? I have around 370K in my account...


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## piyooshj (Apr 29, 2013)

LisaH said:


> I guess I have not followed on the devaluation news until now. I just burned some of my Marriott points before it's being devalued on May 16th. What would be the best use of Hilton points now? I have around 370K in my account...



4 nights at double tree - times square for new year eve ball drop.


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## TheWizz (Apr 29, 2013)

piyooshj said:


> 4 nights at double tree - times square for new year eve ball drop.



Agreed!  I booked two rooms in TS at the Double Tree for six nights this past year for us and some friends.  My friends gave me $375 per night (going rate was > $700), so it helped "balance out" the usage of points and we had a great time.  There are a few exceptions where it can make sense to convert from HGVC to HHonors at the 25:1 ratio, and Double Tree over New Year's is one of the few examples.


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## DaveC (Apr 29, 2013)

Anyone have a recommendation for a couple category 7 stays before my points are worthless?


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## LisaH (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks! Although going to NYC at the end of Dec is not something I look forward to 

Regarding cat 7, there are quite a few places in Hawaii that are in that category. Also, I saw Hilton Buenos Aires is also Cat 7.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 29, 2013)

The only positive outcome I have seen is that the Mauritius property actually did increase in category, but ended up with a high and low season, and most stays may actually be in the lower 40K per night new scheme vs 50K a night in the old scheme.

Haven't heard of any other yet.


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## Talent312 (Apr 29, 2013)

Just before the most recent "change," I managed to use most of my HH-points booking Memorial Day weekend in Longboat Key, and a week-long Summer driving trip for Colorado (Colorado Springs, Durango, Grand Junction, Breckenridge & Denver). 
.


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## RX8 (Apr 29, 2013)

I've had my Hilton Citibank card since November.  For the $95 annual fee I get Gold status and also received two weekend nights in just about any Hilton branded hotel (not yet used).

It has come in handy since I have had to stay in a hotel for a number of weeks due to my relocation from CA to CO.  I've accumulated quite a few points in a short amount of time.  I used 60,000 recently for a family trip to San Diego.  For that I got two nights at a Hilton Garden Inn and a full restaurant style breakfast for me, my wife and two children.  No other charges applied (I had expected to pay for the taxes).  Also, while other nearby hotels charged a nightly parking fee I had no parking fee.  All in all I was very pleased with what we got for those 60,000 points.  

Since i only recently signed up i am not aware of how good everyone had it before the devaluation.  I was going to post PLEASE don't say anything more about what I MAY have missed out on but maybe it is best to know since they could further devalue it next month.  If Citibank is reading this I have not yet decided if I am going to keep the card beyond this first year...


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## Remy (Apr 29, 2013)

piyooshj said:


> 4 nights at double tree - times square for new year eve ball drop.



That sounds great, and I'll be there, albeit for far fewer points. Each night was at 50,000 when I booked after the devaluation news, or 145,000 for four nights.

Seems like a steal now. 

I was poking around online and the Costa Rica all-inclusive didn't change from 60,000 points. All meals and drinks included at multiple restaurants and you're on a hillside next to two private beaches. I'd seriously consider that in addition to or over NYC.


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## LisaH (Apr 30, 2013)

Remy said:


> That sounds great, and I'll be there, albeit for far fewer points. Each night was at 50,000 when I booked after the devaluation news, or 145,000 for four nights.
> 
> Seems like a steal now.
> 
> I was poking around online and the Costa Rica all-inclusive didn't change from 60,000 points. All meals and drinks included at multiple restaurants and you're on a hillside next to two private beaches. I'd seriously consider that in addition to or over NYC.



Everyone is recommending Double Tree, but Hilton Time Square actually has lower points requirement (80K vs. 90K) and higher cash daily rate for the same period. Is Double Tree better than Hilton?

I used up 200K for DS and his girlfriend last month and they had a wonderful time. Yes it sounds like a bargain now. Wish I knew about the devaluation and book at the same hotel for the fall...

BTW, Costa Rica sounds really enticing. We have been thinking about visiting there anyway.


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## Remy (Apr 30, 2013)

LisaH said:


> Everyone is recommending Double Tree, but Hilton Time Square actually has lower points requirement (80K vs. 90K) and higher cash daily rate for the same period. Is Double Tree better than Hilton?
> 
> I used up 200K for DS and his girlfriend last month and they had a wonderful time. Yes it sounds like a bargain now. Wish I knew about the devaluation and book at the same hotel for the fall...
> 
> BTW, Costa Rica sounds really enticing. We have been thinking about visiting there anyway.



The Doubletree is all-suites. The Hilton TS will likely give you a view upgrade as a Diamond, but nothing more.

The Costa Rica resort is amazing. I loved it. But on my vacations I like to lounge around. Swim-up bars and unlimited booze is a huge selling point.


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## herkimer (May 1, 2013)

Just completed an "update" at Parc Soleil at which I told the manager that I felt the Hhonors devaluation was also a devaluation of the HGVC program.  There were times when the conversion rate of 1 to 25 made financial sense if I was staying in NYC or one of the elite properties, Rome Cavaleiri, etc.  No more!  Where I used to find value in using the HGVC club properties, RCI, and Hhonors, now my points will only be used for HGVC and RCI properties and that translates into no need for additional points any time soon.  I suspect there are others like me out there.

The manager told me that there was talk of changing the conversion so that the value relative to what it was before the category changes would stay the same.  Can't imagine if they make a change it will be that great.  We'll see!


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## PigsDad (May 1, 2013)

herkimer said:


> The manager told me that there was talk of changing the conversion so that the value relative to what it was before the category changes would stay the same.  Can't imagine if they make a change it will be that great.  We'll see!


After an earlier HHonors devaluation, HGVC did change their conversion rate from 1:23 to the current 1:25.  I agree that there will be a good chance they will change it again, but no way will it keep up with some of the 50-plus percent HHonors point increases we are seeing at some hotels.

Kurt


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## TheWizz (May 6, 2013)

LisaH said:


> Everyone is recommending Double Tree, but Hilton Time Square actually has lower points requirement (80K vs. 90K) and higher cash daily rate for the same period. Is Double Tree better than Hilton?
> 
> I used up 200K for DS and his girlfriend last month and they had a wonderful time. Yes it sounds like a bargain now. Wish I knew about the devaluation and book at the same hotel for the fall...
> 
> BTW, Costa Rica sounds really enticing. We have been thinking about visiting there anyway.



If you want to go for New Year's, then you want to stay at the Double Tree unless you don't mind standing outside in the cold for 6+ hours w/o a break.  We stayed at the Hilton Times Square a few years ago and tried to walk down to Times Square around 8PM and the roads were already blocked off and we couldn't get to Times Square.  We stayed at the Double Tree last year and was given a special pass to get back into Times Square and had no problems.  I booked via points when it was 50K per night.  Can't believe it is 80-95K now per night.  That's just CrAzY!!  I think I might stay at the Marriott Marquis or W Hotel next time.


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## DEROS (May 6, 2013)

I got the mail on the new point scale.  It also had a phone number where I can cancel my AMEX HHonors card.  So, I cancelled my AMEX.  Not worth trying to get more HHonors points.  Anyway, I like using my Costco AMEX executive card.  I think it is a much better deal.


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## Tamaradarann (May 6, 2013)

*Seasons, Timeshares, Seasons*



DaveC said:


> Wow!!! That is horrible. The Hilton in ocean city changed from category 7 to category 9 . So, 4 nights went from 145K to 260K points. What a ripoff! I can understand them making some changes but this is ridiculous. That is almost double.I guess I'll have to let my wallet do the talking and not stay at hilton hotels. What's next? An annual tax on our points because we need to pay our fair share?



I just did some searches for the Hitlon in Ocean City using Hilton Honors.  It is a category 9 Hotel.  The points for 5 nights are 64000 points per night or 320,000 in July.  July is very high season in a cold climate beach location.  Although it is a category 9 Hotel, during other months the points for 5 nights are 40000 or 200,000 total. 

Therefore, another take on the devaluation, as people have been calling this recent change, is that Hilton has increased the points for certain resorts during high season demand when they are going to sell out all of their rooms. They are keeping the points approximately the same during the lower demand seasons when they are not going to sell out all of their rooms.  We are timeshare people.  We should understand that what Hilton is doing is increasing the points required during high season just as the value of the timeshare season or week that we purchased or trade into is determined.  

Hilton is implementing a good business practice by charging more during the high demand season and less during the low demand season.  To not do so is a bad business practice.  The bad practice would be the same as getting the same  Points whether you own Platinum, Gold, Silver or Bronze season or need the same points to trade into a resort during those seasons.


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## Remy (May 6, 2013)

Tamaradarann said:


> I just did some searches for the Hitlon in Ocean City using Hilton Honors.  It is a category 9 Hotel.  The points for 5 nights are 64000 points per night or 320,000 in July.  July is very high season in a cold climate beach location.  Although it is a category 9 Hotel, during other months the points for 5 nights are 40000 or 200,000 total.
> 
> Therefore, another take on the devaluation, as people have been calling this recent change, is that Hilton has increased the points for certain resorts during high season demand when they are going to sell out all of their rooms. They are keeping the points approximately the same during the lower demand seasons when they are not going to sell out all of their rooms.  We are timeshare people.  We should understand that what Hilton is doing is increasing the points required during high season just as the value of the timeshare season or week that we purchased or trade into is determined.
> 
> Hilton is implementing a good business practice by charging more during the high demand season and less during the low demand season.  To not do so is a bad business practice.  The bad practice would be the same as getting the same  Points whether you own Platinum, Gold, Silver or Bronze season or need the same points to trade into a resort during those seasons.



That's not really how it went down. Hilton also added three categories on top of the existing and shifted numerous hotels into higher categories across the board. Most hotels increased in points and many are high season year round. For instance, the Conrad Maldives is always high season and now a Category 10, up from 7, doubling in points required for a night. Even a Hilton Garden Inn in Kansas City went from 12,500 to 25,000 per night by being moved up in categories. 

Driving away high value customers (repeat customers who do enough traveling to justify spending time on a loyalty program) isn't usually though of as good business practice. 

I had enough stays so far this year to earn Hyatt Diamond, SPG Platinum and Hilton Diamond. Guess where my stays will be the rest of this year? It won't be Hilton unless they're the only hotel in town.


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## Tamaradarann (May 9, 2013)

*We like the Hilton System*



Remy said:


> That's not really how it went down. Hilton also added three categories on top of the existing and shifted numerous hotels into higher categories across the board. Most hotels increased in points and many are high season year round. For instance, the Conrad Maldives is always high season and now a Category 10, up from 7, doubling in points required for a night. Even a Hilton Garden Inn in Kansas City went from 12,500 to 25,000 per night by being moved up in categories.
> 
> Driving away high value customers (repeat customers who do enough traveling to justify spending time on a loyalty program) isn't usually though of as good business practice.
> 
> I had enough stays so far this year to earn Hyatt Diamond, SPG Platinum and Hilton Diamond. Guess where my stays will be the rest of this year? It won't be Hilton unless they're the only hotel in town.



Between HGVC and Hilton Honors we vacation about 120 nights a year without paying any additional money other than our timeshare maintenance fees.  We spend most of that in Hawaii.  We are very satisfied with the Hilton System.  I must agree with you that we lost some value in this latest change.  But we like the system and love Honolulu.


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## danb (May 10, 2013)

*Statement from AMEX*

Our last statement from Amex showed the point changes and actually asked off we wanted to cancel the card. I can't right now but we will cancel as soon as we can. The evaluation doesn't even match what you would get changing your club points to honors. Really bad deal but I think there is a new card with a higher honor point value per use.


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## MaryH (May 21, 2013)

something does not make sense in the math.

Say at Hilton Waikoloa (Kohola Suites) is 5K for Gold season in a 2bdrm for a week.  I just checked and rental rates are 423$ / night or 157,872 HH points for night?  But if you trade 5K @1:25 it is only 125K.  You cannot even trade back for 1 night.  crazy.


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## PigsDad (May 21, 2013)

MaryH said:


> something does not make sense in the math.
> 
> Say at Hilton Waikoloa (Kohola Suites) is 5K for Gold season in a 2bdrm for a week.  I just checked and rental rates are 423$ / night or 157,872 HH points for night?  But if you trade 5K @1:25 it is only 125K.  You cannot even trade back for 1 night.  crazy.


It was never advertized as an even trade, and as you can see, not even close.  The general consensus is converting HGVC points to HHonors is rarely (if ever) a good deal.

Kurt


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## danb (May 21, 2013)

*Hhonors points*

I agree that exchanging your club points is now a bad deal. We did it knowing we we not going to be able to use our club points and the other choice is rescue. But rescue points need to be used by the end of the following year and I don't believe you can change them to honors. 
We have family that also own Hilton so if we Travel together we don't always use our points.


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## Talent312 (May 22, 2013)

danb said:


> But rescue points need to be used by the end of the following year and ...



Rescued points can be deposited to the R-C-I program for an additional calendar year. IMHO, that makes them a better use, if you can use them.


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## MaryH (May 22, 2013)

The Hyatt VC exchange rate to Gold Passport is fixed but so is the redemption rate of GP for HVC units.  You have to bought directly from Hyatt to be able to exchange to GP so not really worth it overall.

It is not usually a good deal to exchange to GP but if you have already bought retail and need to use the points, it is still a decent deal for some locations.  Park Hyatt Vendome is my favourite hotel and is a 22k redemption up from 15k a few years ago but hotel rates can be 700-800 Euros at times.   That is worth the exchange.

What is totally out of wack is that Hilton charges far more in HH points for the unit then what you get when you turn it in.  Also charging 100K points plus for a night you can get rental for $200-250 per night.

Did the presentation at Kings Land and they tried to sell the HH conversion and I said not to go there.  Resorts I used to get for 40K HH were 100-120K per night the last times I checked. A platinum week at 7k would only go to 175K HH and would only book a night for hotel rate of $400-500 crazy.


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## johneowens (Jun 12, 2013)

*What action can HGVC members contemplate for losses from HH points devaluation?*

Just had a similar experience to Remy.

In May-June 2012, it cost us us 420,000 HH points for a 15-day stay at the Washington Hilton (Cat 7). Just returned from a recent stay at the same hotel, which cost us 450,000 points (6.7% increase in points required). Just yesterday, checked the number of points required for a similar stay next May: now 600,000 HH points (25% increase).

I am wondering what action, if any, is available to HGVC members to compensate for these losses?

J


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## youngTSnoob (Jun 12, 2013)

Talent312 said:


> Rescued points can be deposited to the R-C-I program for an additional calendar year. IMHO, that makes them a better use, if you can use them.



How do you deposit points into the RCI program? I thought that HGVC members did not trade or deposit points to RCI, but instead had a separate point system within RCI where HGVC points are used to book weeks. Thus being the reason that HGVC members dont book directly through RCI or an RCI account, but instead through a HGVC/RCI rep.


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## slum808 (Jun 12, 2013)

HGVC operates on a corporate "RCI Points" account. You can access RCI through the HGVC Portal and search and book online. You will see the cost in HGVC points, not the "RCI Points". You can deposit your HGVC points into RCI to extend their life.


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## easterntraveler (Nov 17, 2013)

Members have let up the pressure on HGVC to make any changes in light of the devaluation. They should raise it from 25:1 to 60:1. Everyone needs to send emails and/or letters. Phone calls don't help.


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## easterntraveler (Nov 17, 2013)

subscribe.


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## jin (Nov 17, 2013)

easterntraveler said:


> Members have let up the pressure on HGVC to make any changes in light of the devaluation. They should raise it from 25:1 to 60:1. Everyone needs to send emails and/or letters. Phone calls don't help.



I would hope they get the message by no one ever converting there wks to hh pts, although people giving written confirmation on the essentIal "loss" of this privelege (do to massive inequity) can only help up the pressure.....


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## whatsburning (Nov 27, 2013)

easterntraveler said:


> Members have let up the pressure on HGVC to make any changes in light of the devaluation. They should raise it from 25:1 to 60:1. Everyone needs to send emails and/or letters. Phone calls don't help.



So where and who is the best way to voice our displeasure at the devaluation?


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## easterntraveler (Nov 23, 2015)

I spoke to the President of HGVC and he told me that members have not complained about the current conversion ratio. Two years and members have not realized the loss in value. Send some letters to HGVC headquarters in Orlando folks.


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## Jason245 (Nov 23, 2015)

easterntraveler said:


> I spoke to the President of HGVC and he told me that members have not complained about the current conversion ratio. Two years and members have not realized the loss in value. Send some letters to HGVC headquarters in Orlando folks.


Is there anyone who ever believed that exchanging to HHonors was a good deal? 

You do realize that award redemptions to hgvc properties start at 50k points per night. .. I don't thing anyone was or will ever get 450000 points for their week.. 

Even with the devaluations..the cost to buy points from Hilton directly hasn't changed. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Talent312 (Nov 23, 2015)

Folks, you're tacking onto a thread that's been dormant since 2013.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but we're beating a dead horse. :deadhorse:
Sure, we'd all like a better exchange ratio. But there is no Santa Claus.


.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Nov 23, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> Folks, you're tacking onto a thread that's been dormant since 2013.
> Not that there's anything wrong with that, but we're beating a dead horse. :deadhorse:
> Sure, we'd all like a better exchange ratio. But there is no Santa Claus.
> 
> ...



Well the subject line caught my attention.. for a moment i thought they had devalued them again....


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## Jason245 (Nov 23, 2015)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Well the subject line caught my attention.. for a moment i thought they had devalued them again....



They have modified the redemption requirements at hotels at least 2 to 3 times since 2013... noone has commented, but hotels are getting more expensive.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 23, 2015)

*Just Because You Can Do Something Doesn't Mean You Should Do It!*



Jason245 said:


> Is there anyone who ever believed that exchanging to HHonors was a good deal?
> 
> You do realize that award redemptions to hgvc properties start at 50k points per night. .. I don't thing anyone was or will ever get 450000 points for their week..
> 
> ...


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