# We sold WKORV-N



## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

After a few attempts of selling our VOI, only to get cold feet and pull it off the market, we finally went through with the sale of our 2 bdrm OF unit at WKORV-N.  Many things converged to make us want to sell now, including: 

Airfare is still sky high, $1100+ from Ohio, which makes it prohibitively expensive for a couple or another family to join us, even with free lodging.  I envy those of you who live on the West Coast and can get there so much easier and cheaper. 

We’re empty nesters and our travel group has outgrown 2 bedrooms. In '14, we're renting a 5 bdrm home in St. Maarten.

With Starwood now allowing owners to bank SOs, I fear it will be even more difficult to exchange to WSJ via SVN. 

With an abundance of Maui rentals on the market, renting my week out may not be the easy fix that it used to be.  Plus, renting is a PITA.

Hopefully, they’ll add more resorts soon, but we felt very confined by SVO’s limited selection.

The huge disparity in MFs: SOs among the different resorts made it financially disadvantageous for us to fully utilize SVN. 

I’d grown tired of having to call at 9am, 12 months out to secure the best view. 

This year, several weeks in Jan/Feb 2014 sold out within minutes of the reservation line opening. That’s the first time I’ve ever not gotten a reservation when calling at 12 months out.  It’s limiting enough to have to call 8-12 months ahead of time, especially since at times it's before you can even secure award seats/airline reservations… but calling at 9am 12 months out and STILL being squeezed out?  Yikes!
 
So, those are main reasons we're selling.  I hope I haven't left anyone with the impression that I'm bitter.  I’m not at all. I actually enjoyed my ownership, and making the decision to sell was difficult.  At the end of the day, we THOUGHT we bought at a place that we'd want to visit every other year, but that just didn't turn out to be the case.  If I lived closer, I have no doubt that we'd still use our week most years.  In fact, If I lived closer, I'd still BUY an OF week if I could get it past ROFR, because I'd take my girlfriends if my husband couldn't go.  It's a great resort, even with the $2400/week in MFs!

In the 6 years that I owned WKORV-N, we took some great vacations, though we only traveled to Maui twice during our ownership -- once with another family, and once with just our girls.  That last trip remains my favorite family vacation of all time.  We went to both Maui and BI that year.  Highlights of the trip include celebrating my youngest daughter’s 16th (!) birthday at the Marriott Waikoloa restaurant, visiting Volcanoes National Park and standing on ground younger than we were, swimming with huge manta rays at night, learning to surf, and ziplining.  It couldn’t have been better.

In '09, we discovered WSJ, after scoring an SVN exchange on my first try! It is now our favorite SVN resort, for lots of reasons.  We returned in '11 and hope to return in '15, if we can luck out and score a 3rd exchange using our SVV week. We love escaping the Ohio winters.  There is no better feeling than in the span of 6 hours changing from your heavy clothes into a pair of shorts once you arrive in the USVI.   My husband and his friends love the snorkeling, which is outstanding.  I love the sandy beaches and beautiful turquoise waters. It's not Hawaii, but it has its own charm, and most importantly, it's close!

Since I know I'll be asked, I sold my unit after listing it on Redweek for $25k on 2/10.  On 2/19, we accepted an offer for $22k (to us) all-in. I was just informed that Starwood exercised its ROFR, so it seems that I’ll be dealing with Starwood moving forward. I’ll definitely let you know how soon it takes them to cut me a check, so be on notice Starwood sales department.  Overall, we're happy with the price and not to have to worry about renting the week out in '14 since we're heading to St. Maarten instead.

FYI, here's how we used our ownership over the years:

'08 WKORV-N summer 2 bdrm - personally used and brought another family
'09 Exchanged via SVN to WSJ 
'10 WKORV-N  - used the 1 bdrm side for ourselves, and deposited the studio into II, which we later exchanged for a SVV 2 bdrm for my SIL and her family
'11 Used SVN to book a 3 bdrm at HRA in May, and rented it out on Redweek; used remaining SOs to book 2 nights at WKV
'12 Exchanged via SVN to WSJ
'13 Booked WKORV-N 2 bdrm and rented it out to a co-worker

That's all.  Enjoy your day and happy timesharing!


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## grgs (Mar 7, 2013)

You're happy with your decision, so congrats!  It seems like you made good use of your ownership over the years, but I can understand wanting to streamline and not deal with all the uncertainties.  

In any case, you're still in the Starwood family with your SVV week, so I expect you'll still be around and contributing to the board.

Glorian


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## PamMo (Mar 7, 2013)

Yes, congrats on the sale of your villa, LisaRex! Your reasons echo a lot of my feelings about our ownership in Maui, especially #1, 4, 6, 7, and 8. After a few years, I'm getting past that "honeymoon stage", and see our long-term relationship is going to take a bit more work on my part. It's been great for our big extended family, though. We're always asked when our next trip to Hawaii is, and do we have room for them? Family time is priceless, so I hope to be able to make our Maui VOI's work for many years to come.

Please let us know how the sale to Starwood goes. Hopefully it is a quick and efficient transaction!


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## VacationForever (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for sharing with us.  I am glad you are happy with your decision.  I am also glad you still own SVV as otherwise I would surely miss your TUG postings.


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## JudyS (Mar 7, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> ....
> FYI, here's how we used our ownership over the years:
> 
> '08 WKORV-N summer 2 bdrm - personally used and brought another family
> ...


It sounds like you got good usage out of this timeshare. Even though you mostly went to other resorts via II/SVN, the MFs at these other resorts were just as high as at your home resort, so they were equal trades. (SVV has lower fees, of course, but there you got a larger unit in trade.) 

I've heard the average length of house ownership is only seven years -- people's real estate needs change, and that applies to timeshares, too. So, there's no reason to feel bad about adjusting one's timeshare ownerships.


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## sjsharkie (Mar 7, 2013)

Congratulations on your sale and thanks for sharing the information.

Hopefully the process with SVO will be quick and efficient for you.

-ryan


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## capjak (Mar 7, 2013)

I sold my WKORV-N and was notified on December 04, 2012 that Starwood had excercised the contract.

I recieved my check Fedex from starwood on March 05, 2013.

So my 1 data point states it will be appx 90 days before you get the check.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for sharing - and congrats.
As others have said - I have always enjoyed your posts, and hope that doesn't end.
Maybe we will see you at WSJ someday.


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## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the good wishes. Traveling is one of my passions so I'm sure ill stick around for a good while to get ideas and feedback from seasoned travelers.


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## LisaH (Mar 7, 2013)

Ocean front for $22K, not bad. Congrats!


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## LisaRex (Mar 7, 2013)

LisaH said:


> Ocean front for $22K, not bad. Congrats!



That's about the going rate these days.


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## clsmit (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for your post, LisaRex! And WSJ has tennis courts!  Enjoy what you still own and your flexibility.


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## Ken555 (Mar 8, 2013)

Congrats on the sale!


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## larryallen (Mar 8, 2013)

That's great info.  Thanks for sharing.  Happy travels!


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## trvlfan200 (Mar 8, 2013)

*I Had Same Experience and am Considering Selling Too*

Super valuable post echoing so many of my own sentiments, except I got up at 5:30am today (in San Francisco) to call a year in advance for the two OF deluxes we own at KOVR and after 35 minutes on hold, was told no inventory available that week. (Nor any week from Jan to present, obviously). "Can you call back tomorrow and come on Sunday?"  <Even less units are ever avail for Sunday checkins>. "Can you adjust your plans <for your family of 10?>"  And somehow, 24 other people managed to speak to someone in the 30 minutes while I sat on hold. And this is for a week not even remotely near Easter. NEVER had this happen before - and sadly, I just purchased 2 OV and one EOY OF in Cancun this past November, to reach what I had thought would be the 5 star Elite level, which also makes me SPG Platinum. (and 5 Star Stupid, unfortunately). 

In the few months I've been at these two "elite" levels, ALL 3 of my experiences with Starwood have ranged from lackluster to POOR. So now I am contemplating taking the hit on Cancun and just dumping it all. I take the hit on the unit buyins but knock out almost 10K in annual MF's. (Like Lisa, we had 5 years in Maui that was pleasant). For what I pay in annual MF, I can spend a month at a Four Seasons and be treated *well*. I've gone from "highly recommending" to feeling like I made the worst decision - ever.


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## LisaRex (Mar 8, 2013)

trvlfan200 said:


> NEVER had this happen before -



That's so disheartening to hear!  I really, really hope that no shenanigans are being played, with Starwood cherry picking more than their fair share of inventory from these high demand weeks to rent out at a premium, leaving owners who paid a fortune to buy there with the leftovers.  Unfortunately, there is zero transparency with Starwood, which is why I believe they do not have an online system yet -- people would be able to see that there was very little inventory available at 9am 365 days out, and put 2 and 2 together.  

Of course, there are other less nefarious reasons why we're suddenly seeing weeks sell out so quickly.  Perhaps it's as simple as the HOA finally clearing out most of the delinquencies, which is what we want them to do, but the inevitable downside is more competition for prime weeks.

And, of course, it certainly doesn't help that both Marriott and Starwood played fast and loose with their "platinum" year round designation.  No way is mid-October the same demand as whale season. But that's how they coded it, so if there are 24 OF deluxe units in the whole place, you're potentially competing with over 1100 owners for any given week. 

Anyway, glad my post inspired you to come join in the discussion.  Welcome to Tug! I've sold my WKORV-N week, but I'll stick around as long as I own my SVV week.  I bought it as an experiment, so we'll see how it pans out.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2013)

While I do not own WLR (and would not) - I think the availability issue for WKORV/N is a problem while WLR will not be for the most part. It is interesting to hear about availability issues at WKORV/N - especially for OF at WKORVN since there are so many of them.  We did not have a problem getting into our OFD last year during whale season, but will probably not go back during that time of year (even though the whale watching was great).  We prefer it hot, calmer seas, and less crowded - I think we will stick to early Sept - seems to work best for us.

Owning OFD and OFC does appear to have its challenges with reservations during high season. Keep in mind that their is a pecking order for reservations that is listed in the OM (CCRs) - and discussed in another thread.  None of it is linked (officially) to Elite Status iirc.

Certainly worth keeping in mind that Elite status is for SVO, and Plat/Gold status is for SPG - and not visa-versa.  You might get some bump because of it - but you set yourself up for disappointment to have this as an expectation.  There are certainly tons of SPG Platinums around judging from Flyertalk - and I certainly would be not be happy if I got bumped lower (location or reservation-wise) on my OFD ownership just because someone is SPG Plat (nor would it be right, and against the OM which would certainly be an issue).

Having one Platinum season is not without problems, but the opposite (having multiple seasons) has bigger issues (IMO) since the MFs are the same across seasons, yet have different SO scale - you may find low season Owners bailing and the MFs increase overall to make up for the loss of revenue by the HOA - this has occurred for other SVO resorts.  Not sure if it would happen for WKORV/N or WPORV, but it was not hidden anywhere when we bought and we were always told it was based on availability (although most probably didn't realize the consequences).

Now if SVO/SVN is holding back these villas for their own usage and denying Owners from reserving at 12 months (or during the Owners reservation period) - then that is an entirely different issue, and as LisaRex says - it comes down to transparency which is lacking for SVO when it comes to these issues.  Legally, there must be a VOI for everyone that owns one, but if SVO/SVO own (let's say) 10% of the VOIs - then there is nothing stopping them from holding and renting the high-season VOIs for a premium without compensation to the HOA, and therefore locking out float owners - then this is a real issue.  It would not surprise me if this is occurring, and they certainly have the infra-structure in place to take advantage ('Greed is Good' as they say on Wall Street...).

Without better transparency and real owners on the HOA BOD - I doubt if we will ever know - and we have been down this road before without success...

While I paid too much for our OFD (compared to todays' cost) - I am certainly glad I rescinded OF WKORVN for $74K (ouch! that would be extra painful...).


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## LisaRex (Mar 9, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Having one Platinum season is not without problems, but the opposite (having multiple seasons) has bigger issues (IMO) since the MFs are the same across seasons, yet have different SO scale - you may find low season Owners bailing and the MFs increase overall to make up for the loss of revenue by the HOA - this has occurred for other SVO resorts.  Not sure if it would happen for WKORV/N or WPORV, but it was not hidden anywhere when we bought and we were always told it was based on availability (although most probably didn't realize the consequences).



I agree.  However, the problem wouldn't be as bad if the HOAs were really running the place, and only charging owners what it truly takes to "maintain" the place.  There's no way it takes $100k+ to "maintain" a 2 bdrm villa and that's AFTER the onerous property taxes are paid.  By contrast, a 2 bdrm villa up the street at Honua Kai, which has a fitness room, pool, etc. has monthly MFs of $1300, a difference of $88,400 per year. Granted, Honua Kai doesn't have to furnish their condos or run a 30-person reservation line, but I think we all know those MFs are not just for maintenance.

The good news is that I think we've seen a leveling out of MFs these last few years because the developers realized that there was a point of diminishing return.  Because, as you say, and as we personally saw a few years ago, folks will simply bail if they don't find value any more.  So, indirectly, the market is helping MFs remain stable.

http://www.mauirealestate.net/GetSearch.php?WhatMLS=355242


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## jarta (Mar 9, 2013)

> Having one Platinum season is not without problems, but the opposite (having multiple seasons) has bigger issues (IMO) since the MFs are the same across seasons ...



Having one Platinum season at WKORV/N seems to me to be quite a problem.  The problem is the possibility of 52 owners competing for units for every "desirable" week.  Also, if you are bothered by multiple season resorts having the same MFs across all seasons, buy Platinum at a multiple season resort.

For the prime view units (OFC and OFD) the competition problem is compounded by those Event Week owners who have paid substantially more to fix their unit/week of usage.  Event Week reservations decrease availability at 9 am 12 months from arrival.  Those reservations are automatically confirmed without even calling 12 months from arrival.  Some Event Week owners even own consecutive weeks.

Anyone buying non-Event Week OFC or OFD resale should be aware of the competition by up to 52 owners for each of the same type unit for those left over weeks after the availability is decreased by the Event Week owners. 

I just checked the "Villa Resort Availability Finder" for WKORV from September 28, 2013 until November 9, 2013 (last current 8 month arrival).  Every single day had all types of unit (1-br, studio or 2-br) listed as available.  Of course, most available units will not be OFC or OFD.

As I see it, WKORV/N is a victim of Starwood's success in selling Event Weeks for those "desirable" weeks.   Salty


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## feckman (Mar 9, 2013)

As someone with a pending offer on an OV 2BR at WKORV (currently pending ROFR), this is a very interesting thread.  It's definitely giving me pause and something to reconsider if/when ROFR is exercised (I'm pretty sure it will be).

That said, I have a few questions that I probably should've thought about before putting in an offer! :


I thought HOAs were regulated, independent, non-profit entities run by owners, not by and for the benefit of the management company.  Is this not the case?
Don't home-resort owners have some duration (say 12 - 9 months out) to make reservations ahead of others trying to use banked SOs to book?  Still not a great thing for single-week owners competing against other "Elite status" and event week owners, but potentially not as bad as it could be.
We stayed at the Ka'anapali Beach Club in January which is when we found and fell in love with WKORV.  That said, KBC wasn't bad at all.  Given the downsides discussed here for WKORV/N and the relatively inexpensive purchase and MF costs for the KBC, should we consider that property instead?  We were VERY put off by Diamond Resorts International in general, but the location was great and the property is very nice (if a little tired in the common areas).

Anyway, thanks for the very interesting discussion and congrats and best-wishes to the OP!


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## Fredm (Mar 9, 2013)

OV will not pose the same reservation difficulty as OF and OFD at WKORV.


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## capjak (Mar 9, 2013)

feckman said:


> As someone with a pending offer on an OV 2BR at WKORV (currently pending ROFR), this is a very interesting thread.  It's definitely giving me pause and something to reconsider if/when ROFR is exercised (I'm pretty sure it will be).
> 
> That said, I have a few questions that I probably should've thought about before putting in an offer! :
> 
> ...



WKORV is an excellent property, the best TS on Maui IMO.  The only issue I had was the high MFs.  You should have no problem getting an Oceanview during your home resort period.  I think the limited Ocean Front units is the issue.   This year I called 3 months prior to arrival and got a 1 bedroom WKORV North for last week of Jan for 10 nights in Island view and than switched for 1 night into an Ocean Front studio on WKORV North side.


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## LisaRex (Mar 9, 2013)

Here are the number of villas at WKORV-N, based on view designation.  I know this was written somewhere for the south side, but I can't find it right now.  Looks like there were a lot more OF and IV units sold at north than OV. (I hope I counted right!)

Island View (24)		
5119/17, 5120/18, 5121/23, 5122/24,		
5219/17, 5220/18, 5221/23, 5222/24,		
5319/17, 5320/18, 5321/23, 5322/24,		
5419/17, 5420/18, 5421/23, 5422/24,		
5519/17, 5520/18, 5521/23, 5522/24,		
5619/17, 5620/18, 5621/23, 5622/24.		

Ocean Front (48)		
5101/02, 5103/04, 5106/05, 5108/07, 5110/09, 5111/12, 5114/13, 5115/16,		
5201/02, 5203/04, 5406/05, 5208/07, 5210/09, 5211/12, 5214/13, 5215/16,		
5301/02, 5303/04, 5306/05, 5308/07, 5310/09, 5311/12, 5314/13, 5315/16,		
5401/02, 5403/04, 5406/05, 5408/07, 5410/09, 5411/12, 5414/13, 5416/16,		
5501/02, 5503/04, 5506/05, 5508/07, 5510/09, 5511/12, 5514/13, 5515/16,		
5601/02, 5603/04, 5606/05, 5608/07, 5610/09, 5611/12, 5614/13, 5615/16.		

Building 6		
Island View (all) (74)		 
6127/25, 6128/26, 6129/31, 6130/32, 6133/35, 6136/34, 6154/53, 6156/66, 6157/58, 6227/25, 6228/26, 6229/31, 6230/32, 6233/35, 6236/34, 6240/38, 6242/44, 6254/53, 6256/55, 6257/58,		
6327/25, 6328/26, 6329/31, 6330/32, 6333/35, 6336/34, 6340/38, 6342/44, 6354/53, 6356/55, 6357/58		
6427/25, 6428/26, 6429/31, 6430/32, 6433/35, 6436/34, 6440/38, 6442/44, 6446/45, 6447/48, 6450/49, 6451/52, 6454/53, 6456/55, 6457/58		
6527/25, 6528/26, 6529/31, 6530/32, 6533/35, 6536/34, 6540/38, 6542/44, 6546/45, 6547/48, 6550/49, 6551/52, 6554/53, 6556/55, 6557/58,		
6627/25, 6628/26, 6629/31, 6630/32, 6633/35, 6636/34, 6646/45, 6647/48, 6650/49, 6651/52, 6654/53, 6656/55, and 6657/58		

Building 7		
Island View (29)		
7160/59, 7161/62, 7170/69, 7172/71, 7174/73, 7176/75, 7178/77, 7180/79, 7182/81, 7184/83,		
7260/59, 7261/62, 7263/64, 7278/77, 7280/79, 7282/81, 7284/83,		
7360/59, 7361/62, 7363/64,		
7460/59, 7461/62, 7463/64,		
7560/59, 7561/62, 7563/64,		
7660/59, 7661/62, 7663/64		

Ocean View (42)		
7167/68,		
7265/66, 7267/68, 7270/69, 7272/71, 7274/73, 7276/75,		
7365/66, 7367/68, 7370, 7372/71, 7374/73, 7376/75, 7378/77, 7380/79, 7382/81, 7384/83,		
7465/66, 7467/68, 7470/69, 7472/71, 7474/73, 7476/75, 7478/77, 7480/79, 7482/81, 7484/83,		
7565/66, 7567/68, 7570/69, 7572/71, 7574/73, 7576/75, 7578/77, 7580/79, 7582/81, 7665/66, 7670/69, 7672/71, 7674/73, 7676/75, 7678/77		

Building 8		
Ocean Front (all) (41)		
8101/02, 8103/04, 8105/06, 8107/08, 8110/09, 8112/11, 8114/13		
8201/02, 8203/04, 8205/06, 8207/08, 8210/09, 8212/11, 8214/13		
8301/02, 8303/04, 8305/06, 8307/08, 8310/09, 8312/11, 8314/13		
8401/02, 8403/04, 8405/06, 8407/08, 8410/09, 8412/11, 8414/13		
8501/02, 8503/04, 8505/06, 8507/08, 8510/09, 8512/11, 8514/13		
8603/04, 8605/06, 8607/08, 8610/09, 8612/11, 8614/13


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## Ken555 (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> By contrast, a 2 bdrm villa up the street at Honua Kai, which has a fitness room, pool, etc. has monthly MFs of $1300, a difference of $88,400 per year. Granted, Honua Kai doesn't have to furnish their condos or run a 30-person reservation line, but I think we all know those MFs are not just for maintenance.



Actually, I believe the Honua Kai includes furnishings. After all, they need to be consistent across units in order to be rented as a hotel. I suppose if you opt out of the rental program altogether you don't need to furnish it, but I have no idea if this is a separate charge or not. I suspect there are other charges as well, including cleaning etc.


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## jarta (Mar 9, 2013)

Fredm said:


> OV will not pose the same reservation difficulty as OF and OFD at WKORV.



Fred, ...   True.   Despite high air fares to HI and time changes and high MFs (Maui´s an island like St. John and Paradise Island!), demand is high for HI (especially on the Pacific Coast) and it´s all about supply and demand in Maui.  Pay more; greater guaranty you will get what you want when you want it.

In my mind, the greatest problem with Starwood Maui is that the number of people in the rooms at the resort swamps the pool areas and, therefore, the resort though large seems congested most of the time.  Posted from the Sheraton Iguassu Falls.   Salty


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## maph (Mar 9, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Actually, I believe the Honua Kai includes furnishings. After all, they need to be consistent across units in order to be rented as a hotel. I suppose if you opt out of the rental program altogether you don't need to furnish it, but I have no idea if this is a separate charge or not. I suspect there are other charges as well, including cleaning etc.



I looked into these when I was there at Christmas.  The story I got was that the 1 & 2 bedroom units are sold furnished, but the 3 bedroom units come unfunished so you can decorate yourself.  

They had a very nice oceanfront 3 bedroom on the fifth floor than may still be available if anyone's interested - asking price of ~$3,500,000.


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## LisaRex (Mar 9, 2013)

I'd be interested in participating in a consortium to buy one of the $1.5M units, but that's the extent of our discretionary budget.


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## maph (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I'd be interested in participating in a consortium to buy one of the $1.5M units, but that's the extent of our discretionary budget.



As nice as they are, I think for now I'll have to stick with my WKOR units, warts and all.

For what it's worth, I got skunked on booking OFC week 7, but was able to get week 8.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I'd be interested in participating in a consortium to buy one of the $1.5M units, but that's the extent of our discretionary budget.



The HK villas look very nice, but I wouldn't want an OF villa overlooking Dukes (IMO) - with the noise, food smell, and lack of a privacy - that is a big downside.
I don't get the fascination.

But I do know of some great villas on StJ that I would like to go in on with a few folks.


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## LisaRex (Mar 9, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> But I do know of some great villas on StJ that I would like to go in on with a few folks.



I could be tempted, though I warn you that I'm a view snob.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I could be tempted, though I warn you that I'm a view snob.



Me too - have you seen the latest for a mere 3.5MM - lol.  OnStJohn and TradeWinds usually shows the latest/greatest,
Maho camp grounds just sold for 13MM - too bad we couldn't have found 20 people to buy that land - what a bargain - something like 23 acres iirc.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 9, 2013)

View Snobs: Remember, the IRS has that nasty 14 day personal usage limit. Don't get too attached to a perfect view or the IRS will separate you from your money and tax shelter.

Foreign countries: have different tax codes and rates. Some do not allow foreigners to hold ownership. And you would have to make certain you can deduct your losses on the IRS tax forms. But conversely, those profits would have to be included.


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## Twinkstarr (Mar 9, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> View Snobs: Remember, the IRS has that nasty 14 day personal usage limit. Don't get too attached to a perfect view or the IRS will separate you from your money and tax shelter.
> 
> Foreign countries: have different tax codes and rates. Some do not allow foreigners to hold ownership. And you would have to make certain you can deduct your losses on the IRS tax forms. But conversely, those profits would have to be included.



Not sure about the USVI and ownership/taxes. but we know a local family who was on House Hunters International looking for a place in St. John. Can't remember if they found something or not. Every time I manage to catch that show someone is looking for a place on St John.


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## chrisfromOC (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaH said:


> Ocean front for $22K, not bad. Congrats!



Yep, and they'll sell it to some other poor soul for $75k.


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## GregGH (Mar 9, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> I could be tempted, though I warn you that I'm a view snob.



There might be some deals at bankrupt Ritz Carlton Kapalua ? ... Have a thread started ... remember us in case there is a group ... and yes --I LOVE a good view, too

Greg

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186502&highlight=ritz+carlton+kapalua


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## DeniseM (Mar 10, 2013)

feckman said:


> I thought HOAs were regulated, independent, non-profit entities run by owners, not by and for the benefit of the management company.  Is this not the case?



The way the elections are structured, it is virtually impossible to get elected without Starwood's support.  At most of the Starwood resorts, the HOA just rubber stamps whatever Starwood recommends.

Starwood literally hand picks the candidates that they allow on the ballot, from the applications submitted by owners.  But then they usually they don't get enough ballots to reach a quorum, so the board (as guided by Starwood) selects the new board members anyway.

Here is a long thread about a recent election at a Starwood resort in which the candidate who got the most votes from owners, wasn't even placed on the board:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180766&highlight=election

A couple of years ago, a Tugger who is an attorney, forced Starwood to put him on the WKORV ballot by quoting local law that permits an owner to nominate himself.  They put him on the ballot, but he reported that the current board members acted suspicious and hostile toward him during the election process, because he nominated himself, instead of being selected by Starwood management to be on the ballot.  Of course they didn't get a quorum, and the HOA did not select him to join the board - they selected a candidate supported by Starwood.  It's really quite a racket.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 11, 2013)

USVI is not a foreign country - it is a US territory.


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## travelplus (Mar 13, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> After a few attempts of selling our VOI, only to get cold feet and pull it off the market, we finally went through with the sale of our 2 bdrm OF unit at WKORV-N.  Many things converged to make us want to sell now, including:
> 
> Airfare is still sky high, $1100+ from Ohio, which makes it prohibitively expensive for a couple or another family to join us, even with free lodging.  I envy those of you who live on the West Coast and can get there so much easier and cheaper.
> 
> ...



I agree with you for selling your timeshare. When I was young my Parents owned a couple of Time Shares that was hard to use and hard to exchange despite the MF's.  

Two years ago I was introduced to Redweek.com and found a resale in Scottsdale and last year a resale at The Ridge Lake Tahoe. Our plan is to exchange the Arizona unit to travel around the USA and abroad.  The Ridge Tahoe is our home resort because its a 4 hour drive and if we leave around 5 AM we can be there around 9 or 10.

The Ridge Tahoe gives us not only a week we can use for any season and the MFs are $940 per year it also gives us excellent Bonus Time rates, Day Use and a free shuttle to the Casinos.  

What you can do is look for a Timeshare within a 250 mile radius that you can drive to or fly to.  You can go to Redweek.com and find a resale that meets your needs. You can take some of the money from your sale to buy a TS that you know you can use.  

The $1100 airfaare is a lot and for that much you can go to Europe and trade there.

Hope this is not your exit from timesharing.


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## LisaRex (May 23, 2013)

To close the loop on this thread, I received the check for $22.7k from Starwood today - 3 months to the date from when the contract was signed.  

I called Starwood on Monday asking where my check was and the rep said that paperwork was completed last Friday, then sent to another department for their approval.  He said I should receive the check in 2-3 weeks.  I reminded him that the original contract stated that I'd be paid within 45 days, or by April 10th.  Per the ROFR letter, I had to give Starwood a "reasonable" extension.  I told him that I believed that an additional 45 days, or double the amount of time of the contract, was certainly reasonable, and therefore I was expecting a check no later than May 22nd. 

It was FedExed to me today.


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## Ken555 (May 23, 2013)

Congrats! Glad to hear you got your money, at last.


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## PamMo (May 23, 2013)

Yes, congrats on closing the deal! I've heard Starwood and Marriott can drag their feet in paying when they exercise ROFR, so I'm glad your wait was "only" three months. Now you have all that cash on hand to buy another timeshare, right?


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## LisaRex (May 23, 2013)

PamMo said:


> Yes, congrats on closing the deal! I've heard Starwood and Marriott can drag their feet in paying when they exercise ROFR, so I'm glad your wait was "only" three months. Now you have all that cash on hand to buy another timeshare, right?



I'm not ruling out anything, but we'll probably just rent moving forward.  I felt really confined by Starwood's limited portfolio because I really enjoy exploring new places. Marriott intrigues me but their two-tier system confuses me.  But I have about a dozen places on my travel wish list and I'm going to start knocking them out before I consider another timeshare.

All's well that ends well.


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## PamMo (May 23, 2013)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I really like some locations/resorts in SVN, but wanted the option to book in other areas where there is no Starwood presence. (I don't have a lot of patience to wait around for trades in II and RCI.) While I was perusing my options, I was lucky to find some Marriott and  Hilton owners who wanted to _give away _their timeshares. (I love TUG!) Now, we're fortunate to be planning some great vacations with the family, thanks to the generosity of other Tuggers. Owning is better than renting, because I can book at least 12 months out in prime locations. (We live in the Midwest, so airfares are always an issue.) With Marriott, there is a nice network of owners who are very willing to do owner-to-owner trades, which is VERY nice! I traded my summer Marriott Marbella week for a week in Waiohai (Poipu, Kauai) to coincide with another week we own with Marriott. The Hilton timeshare works well for places that none of my other timeshares have access to. Hilton even lets resale buyers trade for Hilton points which can be used for hotel stays.


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## Tikiman (Jun 3, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> To close the loop on this thread, I received the check for $22.7k from Starwood today - 3 months to the date from when the contract was signed.
> 
> I called Starwood on Monday asking where my check was and the rep said that paperwork was completed last Friday, then sent to another department for their approval.  He said I should receive the check in 2-3 weeks.  I reminded him that the original contract stated that I'd be paid within 45 days, or by April 10th.  Per the ROFR letter, I had to give Starwood a "reasonable" extension.  I told him that I believed that an additional 45 days, or double the amount of time of the contract, was certainly reasonable, and therefore I was expecting a check no later than May 22nd.
> 
> It was FedExed to me today.



Sorry if you already said this somewhere but was this an EOY OF or every year?

I am considering selling my Every Year OF.

Thanks

Steve


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## LisaRex (Jun 3, 2013)

Tikiman said:


> Sorry if you already said this somewhere but was this an EOY OF or every year?



Every year.


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## Tikiman (Jun 3, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Every year.



That seems low for that. How much is Westin selling an every year Ocean Front for right now? We paid $62K the year before it opened.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 3, 2013)

Tikiman said:


> That seems low for that. How much is Westin selling an every year Ocean Front for right now? We paid $62K the year before it opened.



It appears that the going price for WKORVN OF (resale) is what Lisa just sold for - $22.7K - as it was a successful sale.

As WKORVN is no longer in active sales - I would assume the Developer (SVO) price is more than $70K (guessimate) as SVO increases the price (on paper) once they are no longer in active sales (to show how much they have increased in value for those unaware of resale, and happen to find someone willing to pay that much for a villa that have been returned to SVO).  However, that is really a meaningless number to everyone but SVO and that unlucky person that doesn't know about resale.


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## Tikiman (Jun 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> It appears that the going price for WKORVN OF (resale) is what Lisa just sold for - $22.7K - as it was a successful sale.
> 
> As WKORVN is no longer in active sales - I would assume the Developer (SVO) price is more than $70K (guessimate) as SVO increases the price (on paper) once they are no longer in active sales (to show how much they have increased in value for those unaware of resale, and happen to find someone willing to pay that much for a villa that have been returned to SVO).  However, that is really a meaningless number to everyone but SVO and that unlucky person that doesn't know about resale.



I see what you are saying but I could sell mine for $10k and it woud be a successful sale wouldn't it? I do appreciate the input though. It is a tough decision to sell it. We do enjoy it but we have something else the money needs to go towards.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 3, 2013)

Tikiman said:


> I see what you are saying but I could sell mine for $10k and it woud be a successful sale wouldn't it? I do appreciate the input though. It is a tough decision to sell it. We do enjoy it but we have something else the money needs to go towards.



If you were to sale it for $10K - SVO would exercise their ROFR.
You said her price seemed low - quite the contrary - her price was good comparatively for resale.
If you compare it to SVO's price - then you will be disappointed and is an unrealistic expectation.

As you have already asked this question and were getting figures around $20K, and LisaR is an experienced Tugger and researched this (and her decision) - this is a reasonable expectation. Could be more - but not by much. If you are looking for more - good luck.
Obviously could be less - too much less and SVO picks it up.

btw - I bought and rescinded a WKORVN OF for $74K in Dec 2005. (whew... close one)


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## SMHarman (Jun 3, 2013)

Sayd has a ROFR thread on here.  From Lisas perspective this was a successful sale as it meant she had money in her bank account.  From the buyer who got ROFRed, it was unsuccessful.


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## Tikiman (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the insight. This is all new to me.


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## LisaRex (Jun 3, 2013)

FYI, here are the current prices for 2 bdrm OF platinum floating resales at WKORV-N listed on Redweek and MyResortNetwork, which are reputable resale websites.  Note that these are the LIST prices, which is where most negotiations begin. Given that there is literally no difference between the VOIs, if you were a buyer, which listing would you choose?

$25,000 (Redweek)
$25,000 (MyResortNetwork)
$28,500 (Redweek)
$28,500 (MyResortNetwork)
$30,000 (Redweek)
$30,000 (Redweek)
$75,000 (Redweek) <-- seriously?

Armed with similar data, as a seller I had to get my emotions out of the equation and not focus on what I paid for it, but rather what the current market rate is.  And the current market rate is ~$25k, give or take.  It doesn't matter that I paid $50k for it back in '07; It's simply not worth that much today.*

You may find a buyer who is willing to pay a little more, especially since ROFR threshold is around $28k (it appears), but I wouldn't count on it.  

Good luck to you. 

*I learned a lesson that you should probably not buy within the first few years of a resort opening.  Wait until equilibrium sets in.


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## Mauiwmn (Jun 3, 2013)

Last year Starwood offered us an OF at North for $78k during an owners update.
What a deal! 

Here are the other prices I recall:

North OV-$68k
North IV-$58k

South OFD-$125k
South OFC-$110k -if they had any available which they did not

North OF sale price necessary to get past ROFR appears to have moved up in the last 12-18 months from $25k to $28k.  So things are moving in the right direction for sellers.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 3, 2013)

Do not get ROFRs mixed up between OF at WKORV and OF at WKORVN - or other non-OFs.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1461827&postcount=135
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1433394&postcount=92
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1433293&postcount=87
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1431743&postcount=76


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## Mauiwmn (Jun 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin-"Do not get ROFRs mixed up between OF at WKORV and OF at WKORVN - or other non-OFs."

David, was this directed to me?

I don't believe I was getting ROFR mixed up on OF.  My point was that 18 months ago $25k would most likely get past ROFR for North OF and now it appears you have to be somewhere over $28k for Starwood to waive the purchase.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 3, 2013)

It was directed at comments being made about ROFR for OF at WKORV and WKORVN - and what Syed (and Fred) have been posting regarding these ROFRs.  Why I linked specific posts on these.

The OF WKORVN that LR just sold was ~$23K.  I have not seen ROFR that puts OF WKORVN at $28K (or even $25K - or did I miss it - or do you have data beyond what has been posted?)


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## mlpmd56 (Jun 3, 2013)

*ROFR etc*

Starwood exercised ROFR on my WKORV 1 Bdrm Ocean View and then did not pay me for something like 4 months.  They had all flavors of excuses about being short staffed, etc.  I had the same clause in my contract--pay in 45 days--obviously does not apply if you are STARWOOD.  I am actually glad to be reading these posts as I was beginning to wonder if I was paranoid with being unable to make a reservation 12 months out and calling first thing in the morning.  I have also recently sold my Marriott and their closing company is slow as molasses in January--so no better.  Even though I love these beautiful high end resorts, I have learned that it is MUCH better to own where the HOA is truly owner directed.  I don't like to sound so suspicious, but I really wonder if Starwood is making all the inventory available to those owners paying the outrageous maintenance fees.  Those gouging fees were the reason I sold.  Marcy


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## Mauiwmn (Jun 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> It was directed at comments being made about ROFR for OF at WKORV and WKORVN - and what Syed (and Fred) have been posting regarding these ROFRs.  Why I linked specific posts on these.
> 
> The OF WKORVN that LR just sold was ~$23K.  I have not seen ROFR that puts OF WKORVN at $28K (or even $25K - or did I miss it - or do you have data beyond what has been posted?)



David,  

I gave my best guess on what I believe it would take to get past ROFR based on my knowledge of the resale market, my continuous research and my own personal experiences last year.

I found out I was actually a bit low.  Syed believes it would take $29k to get past ROFR on a North OF right now.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 4, 2013)

Mauiwmn said:


> David,
> 
> I gave my best guess on what I believe it would take to get past ROFR based on my knowledge of the resale market, my continuous research and my own personal experiences last year.
> 
> I found out I was actually a bit low.  Syed believes it would take $29k to get past ROFR on a North OF right now.



Regardless - there has been no WKORVN OF that has come close to a ROFR price of $27K or $29K - unless I missed it and I posted links to the specific ROFR posts by Syed and/or Fred from the ROFR thread.  The highest i have seen for WKORVN OF is ~$23K - that is quite different than $4-$6K higher than that.  perhaps they can go that high, but no one has yet posted one higher than the most recent.  Again, be careful not to mix the south and north OF villas as they are different beasts (as well as OFD vs OFC - the only two types worth owning IMO).


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## tomandrobin (Jun 4, 2013)

I am late to the party once again......

Congrats on your sale Lisa!


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## Fredm (Jun 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Regardless - there has been no WKORVN OF that has come close to a ROFR price of $27K or $29K - unless I missed it and I posted links to the specific ROFR posts by Syed and/or Fred from the ROFR thread.  The highest i have seen for WKORVN OF is ~$23K - that is quite different than $4-$6K higher than that.  perhaps they can go that high, but no one has yet posted one higher than the most recent.  Again, be careful not to mix the south and north OF villas as they are different beasts (as well as OFD vs OFC - the only two types worth owning IMO).



North OF exercised last month at 24k. Another passed at 26k. Both with 2014 first use and fees.

My guess is that with summer travel (and associated sales) increasing, Starwood will be kicking it up a notch to acquire more inventory.
I would not be at all surprised if OF exercise prices increased by a couple of thousand at both KOR and KORN.
So, although 27k is high (in my experience) for a KORN OF exercise, it may not be in the near future. For all I know ROFR prices may have increased in the past few weeks.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 4, 2013)

Fredm said:


> North OF exercised last month at 24k. Another passed at 26k. Both with 2014 first use and fees.
> 
> My guess is that with summer travel (and associated sales) increasing, Starwood will be kicking it up a notch to acquire more inventory.
> I would not be at all surprised if OF exercise prices increased by a couple of thousand at both KOR and KORN.
> So, although 27k is high (in my experience) for a KORN OF exercise, it may not be in the near future.



I don't disagree, but my point was stating the ROFR values based on the fact of where they are now instead of a speculative number being thrown about - they do appear to be rising.  As I am still ~$20K in the hole for our resale OFD - it would be nice to see them rise (although I am not selling and have no plans to as we love our OFD).  I have always thought (and been vocal) that OFD and OFC are 2 unique SVO VOIs worth owning if view and privacy is important.  I also think that the ROFR helps to keep them elevated as well as a soft set of the market price (and know that some disagree).

As always - thanks for your input (and Syed's).  I know you do not have to, and as NaCl-T said - may not be in your best interest.  But great to hear what the ROFR where exerised or waived at - very useful info for those who pay attention.


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## Fredm (Jun 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I know you do not have to, *and as NaCl-T said *- may not be in your best interested.  But great to hear what the ROFR where exerised or waived at - very useful info for those who pay attention.



OK, I give up....... Who's NaCl-T?


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 4, 2013)

Fredm said:


> OK, I give up....... Who's NaCl-T?


sorry, I am a Science-geek - the infamous Salty (jarta)...


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## Fredm (Jun 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> sorry, I am a Science-geek - the infamous Salty (jarta)...



Duh! Got it now. Cute one.


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## jarta (Jun 4, 2013)

^^^  David,   ...   You are correct.  Before Starwood started exercising its ROFR, the prices were lower.  Starwood is forcing buyers to pay more to avoid the dreaded ROFR.  If it wasn't raising prices, do you think anyone would be posting here about their concern on a unit they'd love to buy?

You are also correct that the ROFR exercise causes prices to go up and benefits sellers.  Nothing about ROFR forces them to accept a lower price.

Finally, the people who should never be buying a WKORV/N because they cannot afford the high annual MFs are starting to be forced out of the WKORV/N market.  That means there will be less turnover and more stability at the resort as more affluent people who can afford the MFs buy in.  

The people who were looking for steals at WKORV/N are buying at SDO or SBP or SVR in hopes of trading into WKORV/N through II.  As the economy improves, they will find less and less availability because the place will rent out to owners and SO owners and it will be harder even for SO owners to trade in at 8 months for prime weeks.  That's already started.

It's good for all those owners who rode out this horrible slump and those smart owners who saw the opportunity - and took it - prior to Starwood exercising its right to ROFR.  Rental and hotel room prices are also up at HI.  Timing is everything in real estate.  Salty


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## jarta (Jun 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> sorry, I am a Science-geek - the infamous Salty (jarta)...


Do scientists spell it Saltty?  Shouldn't it be NACL-E rather than NACL-T?  lol!  Saltty   :rofl:


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## Mauiwmn (Jun 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I don't disagree, but my point was stating the ROFR values based on the fact of where they are now instead of a speculative number being thrown about - they do appear to be rising.  As I am still ~$20K in the hole for our resale OFD - it would be nice to see them rise (although I am not selling and have no plans to as we love our OFD).  I have always thought (and been vocal) that OFD and OFC are 2 unique SVO VOIs worth owning if view and privacy is important.  I also think that the ROFR helps to keep them elevated as well as a soft set of the market price (and know that some disagree).
> 
> As always - thanks for your input (and Syed's).  I know you do not have to, and as NaCl-T said - may not be in your best interest.  But great to hear what the ROFR where exerised or waived at - very useful info for those who pay attention.



David,

I think you misunderstood my point.  All I was stating is that to pass ROFR one must make an educated guess regarding what price will get past Starwood.  This guess includes research, data, market conditions and expert Broker knowledge.   As no one except Starwood knows what they will purchase and what they won't, it is always a guess and nothing more.   And since past ROFR figures are a lagging indicator, they do not reflect current market conditions which are constantly changing.

As with my own example, my $32k for OFC was waived and another OFC for $33k was not waived soon after my purchase.


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## taffy19 (Jun 5, 2013)

Fredm said:


> North OF exercised last month at 24k. Another passed at 26k. Both with 2014 first use and fees.
> 
> My guess is that with summer travel (and associated sales) increasing, Starwood will be kicking it up a notch to acquire more inventory.
> I would not be at all surprised if OF exercise prices increased by a couple of thousand at both KOR and KORN.
> So, although 27k is high (in my experience) for a KORN OF exercise, it may not be in the near future. For all I know ROFR prices may have increased in the past few weeks.


I agree with you. The economy in Hawaii is improving, I read the other day. Tourists are back and certainly the Asians from Japan and other countries too from over there. They want to travel just like we do and HI is closer than the rest of the USA or Europe.

Personally, I believe that the Hyatt Residence Club is going to benefit all the major hotel timeshare developments on Maui that are for re-sale by owners in the near future. The Asians are very Internet savvy so they will find TUG and RedWeek and My Resort Network or whatever they are called.

Maui is still a very popular Island and not overbuilt yet at the moment and Ko'olina has the Disney Aulani next door that is presently selling points. There are even more Japanese tourists on Oahu than in Maui. Everything depends on the economy so we have to stay informed.

We were surprised to see how many tourists there were on Oahu at Waikiki Beach in March but Maui was very busy too as we noticed this at the popular restaurants where we had to wait so long like at Merriman's in Kapalua and the Waterfront Restaurant in the Ma'alaea Harbor and Duke's and Leilani's too plus even at Longboards at the MOC the first night and the night of the buffet. Waiting lines were everywhere unless you had made reservations.

There were hardly any waiting lines for several years on a row so the economy must have changed again for the better. Just my observation.


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## Mauiwmn (Jun 5, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> It was directed at comments being made about ROFR for OF at WKORV and WKORVN - and what Syed (and Fred) have been posting regarding these ROFRs.  Why I linked specific posts on these.
> 
> The OF WKORVN that LR just sold was ~$23K.  I have not seen ROFR that puts OF WKORVN at $28K (or even $25K - or did I miss it - or do you have data beyond what has been posted?)



David,

As I stated previously, my best guess to pass ROFR right now was $28k and Syed advised me his best guess was it would take $29k.

I questioned Syed further regarding his $29k figure yesterday and he advised that Starwood exercised ROFR on WKORV-N OF at $28,500 and waived one at $29,000.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 5, 2013)

No worries - I am not looking to sell.  We use our 1Bd side of the OFD and rent the studio side to help offset the MFs.  We brought resale (from Syed) but before the TS collapse. It is good to hear they are edging upwards (and the ROFR is active) - even though it would take a long time for me to 'break-even' - especially without using fuzzy math.  I do not expect it to ever recover - that money spent is 'water under the bridge'. I concern myself more forward looking events - MFs, upkeep, and ability to rent.

I do not consider an n=1-2 to be the determining price (the statistician in me...) - ROFR acivity will depend on SVO's professional evaluation of demand - and it is merely a gauge as their needs to be both a seller and buyer - especially for OF which has a unique value.

As mentioned, I would only own OFD or OFC at WKORV - and would not buy OF at WKORVN even if it were as low as $15K. And sure as hell glad I rescinded a WKORVN OF and found TUG. The OF villas at WKORV are very unique (IMO) - and will always be at a premium, but only for those who are looking for what they have to offer - good size room/balcony, excellent light, relatively quiet, incredible panoramic OF views and sunsets, and privacy.

Like all RE transfers - the final price is the actual price.
Say hello to Syed from me.


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## Fredm (Jun 7, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Like all RE transfers - the final price is the actual price.



If I can slightly paraphrase; the final COST to the buyer is the actual price.

Applicable to the discussion of ROFR prices in general, it is helpful to know the TERMS of sale.

A fictitious example of two transactions for the same interval at KOR:

1. EOY ODD sells for $10,000. Buyer gets 2013 use and reimburses seller for 2012-2013 fees paid. Buyer pays all closing costs. Starwood *waives* ROFR.

2. EOY ODD sells for $11,500. Buyer gets 2013 use, and pays no fees. Seller pays closing costs. Starwood *exercises* ROFR.

Example 2 is a much lower cost to the buyer. Starwood is putting themselves in the position of the buyer, and pays attention to these details. They are not stupid.


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## work2travel (Jun 8, 2013)

I absolutely love my OF at WKORVN!  OF units at WKORVN have amazing views. The size of the units, design and added bonus of studio balcony is priceless.  I appreciate others strong opinions about not wanting to own anything else other than OFC or OFD but I do find exessive  repetition of the same statements unecessary.  To each his/her own.


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## DeniseM (Jun 8, 2013)

Just so you know - the OF units on the south side all have lanais too.  It's the standard studio units that don't.


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## work2travel (Jun 8, 2013)

Thank you Denise.  I do know that OFD units have side facing  balconies, not oceanfront facing ones like those on the north side. So although the smaller OFD units qualify as oceanfront, their balconies do not, in my opinion.


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## LisaRex (Jun 9, 2013)

work2travel said:


> Thank you Denise.  I do know that OFD units have side facing  balconies, not oceanfront facing ones like those on the north side. So although the smaller OFD units qualify as oceanfront, their balconies do not, in my opinion.



Acc to this diagram, deluxe units have two balconies -- the 1 bdrm side faces the ocean, and the studio side faces the interior. 

http://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/the-westin-kaanapali-ocean-resort-villas/villas/

I owned OF at WKORV-N and wasn't personally ever assigned a bad view.  But other Tuggers were.  If you look at the map below, Starwood assigned OF to all of building 8 and all the way to villas 15/16.  

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77373

Below are the OF views on the south side, all of which directly face the ocean.  Of course, there are much fewer OF units, and the first couple of floors may not give you as good a view as an upper floor on the north side.  Also, since they have such a limited number, you may have difficulty getting the week you want.  

I think potential buyers should look at both maps, understand the differences between the two sides (not just the view, but everything) and make an informed decision.  

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371


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## work2travel (Jun 9, 2013)

To each his/her own


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## LisaH (Jun 9, 2013)

We were in 5313/5314 a couple of weeks ago. The view was simply amazing...


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 9, 2013)

work2travel said:


> Thank you Denise.  I do know that OFD units have side facing  balconies, not oceanfront facing ones like those on the north side. So although the smaller OFD units qualify as oceanfront, their balconies do not, in my opinion.



What?! The OFD 1bd side has a balcony of about 8.5ftx25ft facing the water - plus panorama view. The studio has a 90sqft balcony that is first on sides of the buildings and has great views of ocean down either beach - doesn't directly face ocean (but that is true of north for most). Look at photos (posted) and room layouts... The deluxe and premium are listed... and plenty of photos available.


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## Ken555 (Jun 9, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> What?! The OFD 1bd side has a balcony of about 8.5ftx25ft facing the water - plus panorama view. The studio has a 90sqft balcony that is first on sides of the buildings and has great views of ocean down either beach - doesn't directly face ocean (but that is true of north for most). Look at photos (posted) and room layouts... The deluxe and premium are listed... and plenty of photos available.



The earlier post must have been referring to the OFD studio units. In all other respects the south ocean front unit, IMO, are superior to the north in almost every objective standard. That said, I'll take a south OFD studio any day...


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 10, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> The earlier post must have been referring to the OFD studio units. In all other respects the south ocean front unit, IMO, are superior to the north in almost every objective standard. That said, I'll take a south OFD studio any day...



After I saw the poster - I regretted sending. 

Equal parts mango, pineapple, papaya, orange fruit juices - squeeze 1/2 lime, 1/2 lemon, Cruzan Rum Mango, Light, and Dark to taste - store in pitcher until cold. Overload glass with ice - splash of soda water.

Then attend Owners Update - and make out like teenagers...

I need to move to the tropics - aches disappear like magic.
FIRE time.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 10, 2013)

OFD Studio - a picture is worth a thousand words...
Somewhat old photo - trees have been cut back since, B3, looking south, 3rd/4th floor (iirc)






Looking from lanai...





View looking north from 5th floor B3 OFD studio lanai





and...


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## work2travel (Jun 11, 2013)

One only needs to see a couple of pictures of building 2 and 3  from the side to determine for himself/herself if ocean-side OFD studio balconies (with ocean view) should be classified as oceanfront.


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## YYJMSP (Jun 11, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Then attend Owners Update - and make out like teenagers...



You made out at the update?  Never thought of doing that, would make the hour go by so much faster... :whoopie:


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## LisaRex (Jun 11, 2013)

work2travel said:


> One only needs to see a couple of pictures of building 2 and 3  from the side to determine for himself/herself if ocean-side OFD studio balconies (with ocean view) should be classified as oceanfront.



Per Nell, here are the view designations for WKORV.  A link to the map is below. 

In B2 & B3: OF units are 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 The rest are OV
In B4: Units 03, 05, 07, 09, 11 are OV I'm not sure of the designation for units 00, 01, 13 The rest are IV.

In B2 & B3:Units 26, 27, 28, 29 are the OF Dlx. (studios have real balconies) All OF studios have balconies
In B4: Units 03, 05 are OV Dlx. Units 02, 04, 18, 19, 20, 21 are IV Dlx. 

And here is the map. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=564349&postcount=13

We don't really have to agree on what is the superior view because it's somewhat subjective.


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## LisaRex (Jun 11, 2013)

And here are some photos which I hope will illustrate the difference between the 2 sides.  

http://wkorvn.shutterfly.com/


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## PamMo (Jun 11, 2013)

We're getting ready for our summer trip to WKORVN, and will be using both of our OF villas. I got through at exactly 9AM a year out to get these reservations, so hopefully we'll get great OF views this year. I've been given mid-level end units (#5X1516) a couple of times (I called at 9AM, but had long waits on hold), so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's my turn to get high floor, true oceanfront villas this time! Is there any way to increase my odds of getting #5X03-06 or 8X07-10?

Also, do the coffee makers at the resort use paper filters? Thanks!


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## jarta (Jun 11, 2013)

> Is there any way to increase my odds of getting #5X03-06 or 8X07-10?



PamMo,   ...   With the Ultra Premium Fixed OF weeks at WKORV and WKORVN (and the weeks Starwood kept for itself which are not in the rental pool) and are first in line for reservations for the check-in day or for a specific unit (if that type of Ultra Premium Fixed week), you may have to meet the competition by fixing your weeks.  

Even if you do, you will just get in line behind the others.  But, you will not have to worry about others upgrading to an Ultra Premium Fixed week and leap-frogging the line ahead of you.   Salty


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## gregb (Jun 12, 2013)

PamMo said:


> We're getting ready for our summer trip to WKORVN, and will be using both of our OF villas. I got through at exactly 9AM a year out to get these reservations, so hopefully we'll get great OF views this year. I've been given mid-level end units (#5X1516) a couple of times (I called at 9AM, but had long waits on hold), so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's my turn to get high floor, true oceanfront villas this time! Is there any way to increase my odds of getting #5X03-06 or 8X07-10?
> 
> Also, do the coffee makers at the resort use paper filters? Thanks!



Yes, Mr. Coffee type, flat bottom filters for the coffee makers.

Greg


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## PamMo (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks, Greg and Jarta/Salty! I like Greg's answer better than yours though, Salty.  We have an ultra-premium fixed week/villa at Harborside, and have NO desire to pay more to fix a unit at WKORVN. Seriously, I'd be better off selling our VOI's at WKORVN and buying a real OF at WKORV. Since I have an early time stamp this year, we'll see what kind of view we get when we check in.


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