# Selling my vacation club



## TAC500 (Jul 25, 2014)

Has anyone heard of being charged a Foreigner Registration Fee before they can sell their timeshare?  Does this have to be paid up front or can it be paid out of the proceeds?


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## tschwa2 (Jul 25, 2014)

In all likelihood there is no such thing and you are being scammed.  I'm sure they will tell you that it must be paid upfront and then you will be re-imbursed on the back end.  If you pay the company will come up with a new fee you have to pay upfront.  You will never receive any legitimate money from them.  When they know they can't get anything else out of you they will pass your info onto their sister scam group that will claim they can recover your money if you just pay a small fee to get the ball rolling.


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## DeniseM (Jul 25, 2014)

This is a common scam - there are NO taxes or fees to be paid to Mexico when you sell your timeshare.

There is no deal.

There is no buyer.

You will never see a penny.

The person who contacted you is a scammer, and they are going to steal your upfront fees, and ride off into the sunset.

DON'T DO IT!


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## TAC500 (Jul 25, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> This is a common scam - there are NO taxes or fees to be paid to Mexico when you sell your timeshare.
> 
> There is no deal.
> 
> ...



Thank you Denise. They are calling it an SRE Permit.  Have you ever heard of that?


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## DeniseM (Jul 25, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> Thank you Denise. They are calling it an SRE Permit.  Have you ever heard of that?



No - because it doesn't exist.  But these folks are very convincing, and if you press them, they will probably come up with documentation - which, of course, they created themselves, and is totally bogus.


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## KarenLK (Jul 25, 2014)

SRE is the Ministry of External Affairs. I googled it and there are references to foreign purchases of real estate.


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## DeniseM (Jul 25, 2014)

KarenLK said:


> SRE is the Ministry of External Affairs. I googled it and there are references to foreign purchases of real estate.



Except, the OP owns a vacation club membership - which is not real estate.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 25, 2014)

Would it make clearer if they called "You Have Been Scammed Fee"?

Presumably they are offering very generous price and you are blinded by this.

Most  Vacation Clubs  do not  have any value or  anything tangible associated with.

Yes, it can be paid out of proceeds and this is way LEGITIMATE deals are  done.

No different than olde  Nigerian trunk of money scam  where  a couple days before shipping  a problem arises that requires wiring  money to clear up. 


SOS!


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## KarenLK (Jul 26, 2014)

Denise, the references I saw were regarding real estate, as in purchasing a home or business, not a timeshare or club membership, and oddly, the first place I found the reference was in a webpage from the Norwegian government!


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## TAC500 (Jul 29, 2014)

Here is what the title company sent me.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has sent a general Direction of foreign Investment form that needs to be signed by all owners to receive a so called S.R.E Permit number. Now since this New Mexican Government Political Regime has enforced a new law for foreign individual and companies that may directly own vacation land or Real State assets in Mexico except in what is described by Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution as the "restricted zone?" A zone within one hundred kilometers (sixty-one miles) of the international border and fifty kilometers (thirty-one miles) of the seacoast. So since taxes where in involve in this transaction it is now a mandatory to have an S.R.E permit from the Mexican Government to begin this International transaction. Here is the link from the foreign affairs Ministry http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/reinounido/index.php/servicios-a-extranjeros click on acquisitions on properties in Mexico. The S.R.E Permit would be issued to you through LaVista Title, Inc. since they have the authority to receive this number within 48 hours. Now since the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Secretary of the Exterior Relations S.R.E) rules apply, you as the designated Owner of said membership you are the only eligible since the permit number is issued to you by S.R.E.

You can also verify this information in the following link:

http://www.mexicocapitalmortgage.com/closing-costs/


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## Passepartout (Jul 29, 2014)

It's bogus. A vacation club is NOT Real Estate. While it's true that foreigners have to jump through hoops to buy coastal Real Estate in Mexico, Vacation Clubs, and timeshares are RTUs (Right to use), and there is NO deed. Hence nothing that requires the referenced form.

They are simply trying to scam the OP.

Jim

P.S. If YOU have a buyer, write, or call your resort for transfer information. They will send you the form, and charge some few hundred $ to change the names on your RTU.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 29, 2014)

Reread posts  3 and 5.

If you have purchased a house or condo you  should know  all disbursements  are made by Title/Escrow  Company out of proceeds  and charged to buyer  and seller as agreed.

There is no way they will agree to this  as there is no money on deposit.

If you do  go ahead please be sure   and come back  and advise us  when deal is  done and you have  money in hand for our edification.


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## pjrose (Jul 29, 2014)

That description a few posts up set my BS Meter to super high.  The grammar is a huge red flag.  One should expect some errors in translation when dealing with an international situation, but they tend to be logically related to the languages involved (e.g., using feminine or masculine terms in a language that doesn't use them, or incorrect use of articles or tense).  

However, here the errors are in "trying to sound legal" and failing miserably.  

If you do decide to pay this, and other fees they will come up with, please do post back in six months or a year and let us know the outcome of your transaction!


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 29, 2014)

pjrose said:


> That description a few posts up set my BS Meter to super high.  The grammar is a huge red flag.



Is this what you referring to:


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## KarenLK (Jul 29, 2014)

pj and others, do you remember a few years back that the tourist card had a space on the back side where you were supposed to "sing in the box"?
Not very well checked before sending to the printer for a few million copies!


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## Karen G (Jul 29, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> Here is what the title company sent me.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...


When you click on that link here's what it says about the SRE permit:


"This permit attaches itself to the home. Essentially it ensures the property is in a state where title is clean, clear and ready to be transferred. For us to order this document, we collect the water bill, tax bill, copy of current title, condominium regime and all homeowners association docs and submit them to the Ministry. The SRE permit can take anywhere between 2 weeks and 45 days in some cases and is handled by the Bank or the closing company."

This clearly has to do with real estate, not a vacation club.  I don't know why you'd even need a title company to do a closing on such a sale. There is no "title" such as we have in the US for real property. There are no deeds to register with the county like we have in the US. Even with a Mexican timeshare, most are right-to-use and any transfers are handled by the timeshare company itself. Usually the seller just signs the back of his certificate of ownership transferring his ownership to the buyer and the timeshare company simply changes the owner name on their records.


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## pjrose (Jul 29, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Is this what you referring to:



Yes, though I couldn't get the image to attach 




KarenLK said:


> pj and others, do you remember a few years back that the tourist card had a space on the back side where you were supposed to "sing in the box"?
> Not very well checked before sending to the printer for a few million copies!



LOL



Karen G said:


> When you click on that link here's what it says about the SRE permit:
> 
> 
> "This permit attaches itself to the home. Essentially it ensures the property is in a state where title is clean, clear and ready to be transferred. For us to order this document, we collect the water bill, tax bill, copy of current title, condominium *regime* and all homeowners association docs and submit them to the Ministry. The SRE permit can take anywhere between 2 weeks and 45 days in some cases and is handled by the Bank or the closing company."
> .



How much $$ are they asking for this "service"?


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## TAC500 (Jul 29, 2014)

They claim the Registration fee is $2,450 and they have sent me a copy of an escrow account in my name with the monies already deposited by the buyer to reimburse me at time of closing.  What I don't understand is if the buyer's money is already in the escrow account why can't they use that to pay fro the permit.  The title company is saying that the S.R.E. will only accept payment form the persons registering and in this case it is me. They also need a photo ID.  

I'm pretty sure it is a scam but I wanted to check on here first just in case this was something new in Mexico.


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## Passepartout (Jul 29, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> They claim the Registration fee is $2,450 and they have sent me a copy of an escrow account in my name with the monies already deposited by the buyer to reimburse me at time of closing.  What I don't understand is if the buyer's money is already in the escrow account why can't they use that to pay fro the permit.  The title company is saying that the S.R.E. will only accept payment form the persons registering and in this case it is me. They also need a photo ID.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is a scam but I wanted to check on here first just in case this was something new in Mexico.



Nothing new. That requirement has been it place for years. But it has to do with Real Estate. Again... Timeshares and Vacation Club ARE NOT Real Estate! Now, if you are holding a DEED for some property, the above comments are invalid, but if there is no deed, the scammers are trying to pull a fast one with you.


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## Karen G (Jul 29, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> I'm pretty sure it is a scam but I wanted to check on here first just in case this was something new in Mexico.


Of course it's a scam, but you could quote them this line from the SRE article that they linked:

The SRE permit can take anywhere between 2 weeks and 45 days in some cases  and is handled by the Bank or the closing company." 

Tell them to handle the SRE payment from the funds they say they have on deposit or forget the whole thing.


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## Karen G (Jul 29, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> They also need a photo ID.


Tell them you'll send your photo ID after they send you theirs as well as the photo ID of the buyer.


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 29, 2014)

Since  this fee is $2,450 and   legitimate  broker would get  at least $1,000  and other closing costs how much have you VERIFIED is  in legitimate escrow?

You have egregiously omitted  actual  vacation club, but all  I have encountered in Branson,  Vegas, Orlando and Denver   have no value and "F" BBB  rating as worthless.

You will never see thousands of dollars  they have seduced you with!

Re-read posts  3 and 5!

Why did you come here for expert advice  if  seeking  ratification of your decision?


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## TAC500 (Jul 30, 2014)

pacodemountainside said:


> Since  this fee is $2,450 and   legitimate  broker would get  at least $1,000  and other closing costs how much have you VERIFIED is  in legitimate escrow?
> 
> You have egregiously omitted  actual  vacation club, but all  I have encountered in Branson,  Vegas, Orlando and Denver   have no value and "F" BBB  rating as worthless.
> 
> ...



No offense Paco but I have only been responding to others' questions about the details.  I agree that this is most likely a scam but since the title company and realtor have said this is a NEW requirement for Vacation Clubs, I thought I would check and see if anyone on here could validate their claims.  I have told them that if they wire me the funds from the buyer first then I would pay this fee.  I am waiting for a response on that.  

Has anyone heard of a company called NSR Services out of MN?


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## Passepartout (Jul 30, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> I agree that *this is most likely a scam* but since the title company and realtor have said this is a NEW requirement for Vacation Clubs, I thought I would check and see if anyone on here could validate their claims. * I have told them that if they wire me the funds from the buyer first then I would pay this fee.*



Since there is no title, and it isn't Real Estate, there is no need of a title company, or realtor.

To the bold part: Well, that oughtta be about the end of this. There IS NO BUYER, nor will you see any funds. Only more smoke and promises "if you'll only send more money."

Jim


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## LannyPC (Jul 30, 2014)

TAC500 said:


> Has anyone heard of a company called NSR Services out of MN?



I haven't.  But there was a thread about a year back concerning a scam company based out of one of the twin cities.

Why are you inquiring about NSR?  How did you find out about them?  What are they offering you?  What are you hoping to accomplish by using them?


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## TAC500 (Jul 31, 2014)

The saga continues.  Here is their explanation for this S.R.E. Permit in more detail after nI told them I would not advance any money and I questioned why I needed this permit why I don't own the property:

Thank you very much for your email and for exercising your due diligence. You are completely right, your vacation property is not a deeded property but a “right to use” property, if it was deeded it would definitely simplify this transaction and due to the fact that your property is a “right to use” property your status is not “primary occupant” but “investor”. The Mexican S.R.E. (Secretariat of Foreign Relations) mandates all “foreign investors” who conduct business in Mexico to register with the S.A.T. (Mexican Revenue Service). If we were dealing with a deeded vacation property the Title company would require the Registered Owners (Sellers) to deposit the deed into Escrow and by doing so all the Sellers’ out-of-pocket expenses would be covered and deducted from the proceeds at the time of closing but we are dealing with a non-deeded property outside of our country in which the Resort contract, that you signed in agreement, very clearly stipulates that you, the Registered Owners, must pay a penalty or as they call it “transfer fee” to the Resort prior to transferring your property. On top of that the governing law, which is the Mexican government, mandates all “foreign investors” to register and obtain a Foreigner Registration number through the S.A.T. in order for them to record this transaction so that you may be provided with the necessary documents for your income declaration next year.



 If your property was here in the US then the Title Company would be able to make all payment and deduct the funds from your total proceeds at the time of closing. We also have to take into consideration that the Buyer, has complied with his obligations in accordance with the Agreement from La Vista Title (please refer to contract #VT-42301 6th Representation within Clause #8). When La Vista received the notice from the S.A.T. the Buyer deposited the funds in to the Non-refundable escrow account where you and your wife are the beneficiaries. We tried to get him to pay directly to the government but if for any reason the transaction is not fulfilled, the Mexican Government would reimburse the Buyers money to you. LaVista Title must protect the rights of the buyer and for some reason the deal died, the Mexican government would refund the money to you directly not to the escrow account that it was drawn from.


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## DeniseM (Jul 31, 2014)

These guys *lie for a living* - they work the phones all day long, lying to people just like you.  If you send them any money, you will lose it, and you will never see a cent - guaranteed!


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## bethy (Jul 31, 2014)

^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Passepartout (Jul 31, 2014)

I have read through this thread, and (forgive me if I'm wrong- or missed it) is this buyer through the resort? or did *you* find the buyer? or was this a cold caller saying "We have a buyer for your timeshare for $xx,xxx" ?

Have you gotten the resort involved, by asking them what their requirements are for transferring 'ownership' to a new 'buyer'? With some resorts/systems, it's as simple as signing the back of your contract and sending it (and some money) to the resort. Some will send you the form they use.

The more I read of this whole misadventure, the more convinced I am that it was a cold call from some scammer who is playing you like a trophy trout on a light line.

PLEASE, tell us that you have broken it off if this is from a cold caller. If it's legit, let the resort handle the transfer internally. 

Jim


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 31, 2014)

Same type pregnant questions I have!

How did you get hooked up with these characters?

What  kind of cash  are they offering.

What specifically are you selling? Name?

Why haven't any other TUG  posters encountered these problems.

Where did  "NSR"  come from?

Is this new law or  harsh enforcement of old one?

Shades of Date Line special Nigerian  chest full of  $100 dollar bills  and  intelligent gal ended up giving over $150K as tons of  "creditable" documentation!

I must admit these "what ever" are tenacious. Most when   told take out of escrow move on to next victim.

Scammers today know better than ask for money until they have  victim hooked!


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## pacodemountainside (Aug 3, 2014)

*PROFECO-The Fountainhead*

Since you are skeptical of  advice here why not go to  the "FOUNTAIN HEAD"?

Following is link to general information!

The subsequent info is    detailed contact info. While they generally get involved after the fact I am sure they can enlighten you on  legitimate  fees and taxes. Ounce of prevention!

Vhttp://www.profeco.gob.mx/revista/publicaciones/otas_pub_06/timeshares_abr06.pdf



Profeco - (Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor) 
How to File a Complaint from Outside Mexico
for goods and services acquired in Mexico that you are not satisfied with. 

Attention to Foreign Residents

Profeco is part of the administrative branch of the federal government of Mexico. Seeks to strengthen the citizen's power and enforces the law to achieve equity on consumption relations.

The Department of Conciliation Services to Foreign Residents (Departamento de Conciliacion a Residentes en el Extranjero C.A.R.E.) provides assistance towards solving controversies arisen between foreign or Mexican citizens living abroad that acquire any product or service from a legally established Mexican supplier and are not satisfied with it.

C.A.R.E. assists the parties within free of charge mediation/conciliation procedures, based upon the terms of the contract that consumer supplies.

To start the conciliation/mediation procedure C.A.R.E. must analyze the documentation submitted by the consumer related to the following information: 
1. Complaint letter stating the following:
• Consumer: name, mailing address, telephone number and e-mail.
• Supplier: name and address as stated on the receipt or contract.
• Brief description of the complaint, including the date of purchase, cost of the goods or service, and claimed amounts.

2. Completed complaint form

3. Copy of ID (Passport or Driver's License) 

4. Copy of contract, invoice payment, bills, credit slips or receipts, as evidence of payment.

5. Copy of additional documents available to support the complaint.

The above information must be e-mailed to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx 

Or sent by regular mail to:
Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor,
Dirección General de Quejas y Conciliación,
Av. Jose Vasconcélos no. 208, 6º. Piso,
Col. Condesa. Del. Cuauhtémoc,
C.P. 06140, México, D.F.

It is important to stress that all personal and confidential information colleted by Profeco, C.A.R.E., will be considered as non disclosed and protected by our federal laws. 


For further information, do not hesitate to contact us at: 
(+52) 55 5211-1723 or (+52) 55 5625-6633, 
or write to: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx

http://www.profeco.gob.mx/ 

Click on the link - Atención al Extranjero


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## TAC500 (Aug 6, 2014)

First of all I want to say that I have agreed with all of you from the beginning. I just wanted to be sure that this wasn't some new regulation in Mexico. I left it with the realtor that the only way I will do this transaction is if they wire me the funds first so I can have my money and then I will pay the Mexican government.  It has been about a day and a half and I have not heard back from him as yet.  

No I am not holding my breath.


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## Charismatic (Aug 21, 2014)

*Contacted by NSR*

I was just contacted by NSR out of Minnesota (allegedly) to sell 10 weeks of our right to use resort.  


The BBB has an alert on them and they don't actually have an office in Minnesota and their landlord denied their tenant application there.  So it pretty much settles the fact that they are not legit.  
FYI, 

Charismatic


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