# How long till WM account shuffles credits back in?



## DaveNV (Jan 29, 2022)

I cancelled a reservation yesterday that instantly returned 2200 credits and a housekeeping token to my account.  Today I see things are still showing as they did right after I cancelled the reservation.  How long is it taking till credits shuffle around? My account is showing I'd borrowed 1200 credits and a HKT to make another reservation for this year, and I'd expect part of the returned 2200 credits and the HKT would be shuffled back to replace those borrowed credits.

Dave


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## CO skier (Jan 29, 2022)

The credit shuffle "usually" runs overnight; sometimes it does not run for a night or a few.


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## DaveNV (Feb 24, 2022)

So my credits never did shuffle back in.  And in the time since, I did a final Eplus Retrade on this same exchange that's been plaguing me the last year.  And as I sort of expected, my WM account is now an even greater mess.

I had expected the credit shuffle to balance out things from the cancellation in January.  In December, they had incorrectly put credits into my Current Credits group, instead of my Available To Borrow group.  In addition, they had borrowed a HKT instead of using the HKT in my Current Credits group.  So things were turned on their head.  Calling WM didn't help, and I've been waiting to receive an accounting of credits received, used, and restored in my account, so I could try and sort things out.  I finally received the accounting via email a few days ago.  It does not report my Eplus Retrades as retrades.  It shows everything related to Interval as separate exchanges.  Including the final Retrade I did two weeks ago, from which WM took even more credits and an HKT from my account, leaving things a total mess.  Credits and HKTs are still missing from my account.

So I spent a good deal of yesterday on the phone, first with Interval, to confirm things on their end were in order.  Very clearly, I have just one exchange with them, this Retraded debacle I started in January of last year.  Interval showed each Retrade correctly, and shows I have the final one in place, and everything is very straightforward with them.  So that part is fine.

WorldMark proved to be another story altogether.  My first call to them yesterday was fairly quick to answer, and (not surprisingly) the woman on the phone had zero idea what I was talking about.  After I went through the whole story till she finally understood why my account was screwed up, and I'd asked to speak to a Supervisor so I could get it fixed, she agreed to transfer me.  And promptly disconnected the call.   

I took a break and then tried again. The call was answered in a reasonably short time (maybe ten minutes or so?) and the man I spoke with (James) seemed to have a greater knowledge of the process of exchanging, but he also didn't know about Eplus Retrades at Interval.  I asked if he could review the call notes from my previous conversation, which he did.  And he caught on immediately.  He said, "I'm transferring you to Customer Care, so they can fix this for you."  He did, and a few minutes later, a very knowledgable woman (Sonja, I think) got on the line.  I went through the scenario one more time, and added that I had received an accounting list of credits in and out.  She opened my account and we walked through things.  It turned out there were a number of transactions on the account that were not included in what WM had sent to me. That was rather unsettling.

When we finally got it sorted out, she said something nobody else had mentioned:  I had two active reservations with Interval.  It seems when the last Retrade was done on this exchange, WM treated it as a new reservation, and didn't cancel the previous one.  So they deducted things as if I'd just made another exchange with Interval, which is why all the credits in my account were deducted in error.

Bottom line:  I'm back in Wait Mode, while she submits to whomever at WM that the older exchange be cancelled, and marked as a retrade to this new exchange.  She asked to have credits restored to my account in the right way, which will put everything back into my Available To Borrow group, which is how it should have been previously.  I'm hoping it all comes together at some point.  We'll see how it goes.

All of this has been quite an education into how easily an account gets screwed up.  Interval says that Eplus Retrades with WorldMark are always a mess.  The Interval woman on the WorldMark desk said, "I tell WorldMark callers who are trying to make a retrade to expect to pay for the exchange a second or third time, even though that's not how it's supposed to work. They rarely get their credits back."  Just crazy, how something so simple can get so messed up.

We'll see how this all shakes out.  Stay tuned.

Dave


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## easyrider (Feb 24, 2022)

I started taking screenshots of my account before I make a reservation because of a cancelled exchange screw up. Dave, you are on a totally higher level of exchanging than most so I get why WM doesn't know what is going on. It sounds like you have it figured out.

Bill


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## DaveNV (Feb 24, 2022)

easyrider said:


> I started taking screenshots of my account before I make a reservation because of a cancelled exchange screw up. Dave, you are on a totally higher level of exchanging than most so I get why WM doesn't know what is going on. It sounds like you have it figured out.
> 
> Bill



Thanks, Bill.  I'm still a relative WM newbie, but feel so hamstrung by a system that should be simple, and proves to be so hard. If I was just doing reservations within WM, all would be good - those are very specific and easy. It's when I tried using Interval to exchange out that things started to get messy.  I think a direct exchange with II would be easy.  It's the II Eplus Retrade thing that throws the wrench into the mix.  I won't be doing that again.

If I keep this WM ownership for the future, I'll be doing things differently.  I'm about 99% sure I'll be selling my account after my anniversary in August, and I use my two current back-to-back WM reservations in September. If they credit things back as they should from this current situation, my account should balance out as fully loaded after my anniversary.  That puts it where I want it to be, and I can offer it to a new owner in good order. We'll see. 

Dave


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## sun starved Gayle (Feb 24, 2022)

Dave, reading your story sounds like Deja vu all over again, as I am going through the same scenario with Worldmark , Interval and EPlus dating back to the original trade I made in November of 2020 and then needed to re-trade with EPlus in November of 2021.

I have been back and forth between Interval and WM numerous times with long wait times,  and I also have been disconnected more than once.  I was asked to submit my problem in writing via email and then waited 26 days for an answer. When WM finally answered, they did not address the issue I had written about at all and told me I needed to call customer service as I owed $600.00 for extra credits I had to buy since I did not have enough to make the trade. They were treating the situation like a brand new trade. I am beyond frustrated.

Yesterday, after “only” holding 68 minutes with WM, I got hold of a customer service agent who actually seemed interested in resolving this problem and I was told to expect an answer back in two days. I will report back with the results, but I am not holding my breath.

This whole ordeal, plus the new website and the high pressure to attend an “owners update” has me rethinking my WM ownership.


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## DaveNV (Feb 24, 2022)

Gayle, I totally feel your pain.  The question to ask WM is "How many exchanges do you see for me with Interval?"  That was where my Retrade went wrong - WM treated it as a new exchange, so deducted credits again. Interval showed my previous Retrade had been switched to the newer location. WM showed it as two separate exchanges.  And it wasn't till I got to the final person that this news was shared with me - it wasn't on the accounting document they sent me.  The previous phone people didn't mention it. 

Good luck!

Dave


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## HudsHut (Feb 24, 2022)

WorldMark ALWAYS treats an e-plus retrade as a brand new exchange, and a "cancellation of the old exchange", and takes credits / HK accordingly.

It is a challenge to get them to reinstate the credits for the "cancellation" (the original exchange or previous e-plus). Quite frankly, it is a nightmare. In the future, I would avoid the e-plus with WM request first if at all possible.

All of the credit deduction and reinstate falls upon the Exchange Department; we are no longer allowed to speak to Exchange Dept, so reliant upon getting a person in Owner Care to understand the problem, document it correctly, and possibly sent it to Exch Dept, who may take a very long time to get things straightened.

---
Regarding the lack of shuffling, about 2 years ago, my account did not shuffle for at least half  a year, maybe longer. If you ask, the VPC or Owner Care, can move the oldest credits into the oldest reservations. But of course, you are counting on the oldest  credits being taken for the latest e-plus exchange. See if they can figure out why your account is not automatically shuffling.


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## DaveNV (Feb 24, 2022)

HudsHut said:


> WorldMark ALWAYS treats and e-plus retrade as a brand new exchange and takes credits / HK accordingly.
> 
> It is a challenge to get them to reinstate the credits for the "cancellation" (the original exchange or previous e-plus). Quite frankly, it is a nightmare. In the future, I would avoid the e-plus with WM request first if at all possible.
> 
> ...



I've learned my lesson.  No Retrades again for me. 

I don't know who the Owner Care person (Sonja) sent her message to.  She was very precise in her wording, and even read it back to me to make sure I was clear on what she was asking.  She said it may take a few weeks for things to get right, and that she'd be checking back with me.  So we'll see how it all goes.

It must be difficult to work in a company where you're not allowed to talk to other departments. Seems very counterproductive.

Dave


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## sun starved Gayle (Feb 24, 2022)

Thanks Dave. I just checked my WM account and have had 12,000 credits restored. I still need to figure out if that is the right amount. 

I exchanged for two units at Embarc Palm Springs, one using WM points. 
I had to use EPlus to re-trade the smaller unit I had reserved using the WM points about two weeks before check in. 
When I went to check-in at Embarc Palm Springs, both units were still under my name at the front desk, even though only one unit there was showing in my II account. The unit I re-traded into using EPlus was also showing in my II account.
The second Embarc unit was not showing in my II account even though the reservation was still showing at the front desk. It was weird. I kept checking back with the front desk to make sure it was no longer under my name as I did not want to pay any additional taxes or fees associated with the unit. Several days into my stay, the front desk said the unit was no longer in my name, but they had to contact Interval numerous times to get it out.

And I'm with you Dave, I will never try and retrade a unit that I have used WM points to book in II again!


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## 77JC (Feb 25, 2022)

This happened to me every time as well when I did a retrade on a week booked through II with WM credits.  After calling and auditing etc. I decided never again.  The only time I use my WM account for exchanging now is for a short notice exchange without eplus.  It's just not worth the hassle!


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## HudsHut (Feb 25, 2022)

@77JC 
@sue1947 warned me about the problem long ago. I have come to that conclusion. I might do it, but I go in eyes wide open. I know the hell I'm going to be in for.


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## TheHappyWanderer (Feb 25, 2022)

It's especially not worth the aggravation now that II has raised the E-Plus cost up to $89.


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## exyeh (Feb 25, 2022)

I feel all your pains, too!! Because I have these problems with cancel in 24 hrs or retrades. I recently saw an exchange I can retrade instantly to save 5000 credits and say no. I don't want this again. But sometimes you have to do it because things changes.  I have developed a format this time when I had to do retrade this year. I hope this format to write to worldmark will work. And I will report it back if I get things done this way later. Right now it seems that you have to get owner care to make a case number for you and write down all the detailed info about the transactions. I will report back later if this time my strategy works.


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## sue1947 (Feb 25, 2022)

HudsHut said:


> @77JC
> @sue1947 warned me about the problem long ago. I have come to that conclusion. I might do it, but I go in eyes wide open. I know the hell I'm going to be in for.



My actual advise is to only use deposit first.   That eliminates most of the nonsense.  Unfortunately, now they can't even seem to get the deposits done. They fired/laid off all the people who knew how WM works and keep trying to pound WM owners into the square peg of Wyndham.  
See this thread at wmowners.com for more details.  In particular, see posts 32 and 33 from 2018 (this isn't a new problem).
https://wmowners.com/threads/ii-eplus-retrade.38959/


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## exyeh (Feb 25, 2022)

Back in worldmark seattle time, I knew a wm person very well, She was willing to walk to the exchange department and talked to the person who was handled the II refund stuff for me. But she dare not to push her at all. The other persons in that dept. would say oh, she was the one to handle it, but they could not say anything about it to her, either. Because she can hold the stuff for months -- because I was pushing to get my credits back after 2,3 weeks. Finally she said ok, she would refund the credits after 4 months when my friend asked again for me.
And she said, I only got the report from II yesterday.
I am not sure if she still work at worldmak today.


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