# Marriott announces rewards plans [Linking MR / Starwood Preferred Guest Accounts]



## davidvel (Sep 23, 2016)

Marriott has finally answered the question that’s been on the minds of the combined 78 million people who belong to the Marriott Rewards (which includes Ritz-Carlton Rewards) and Starwood Preferred Guest loyalty programs: What will happen to my points?

As it finalizes the merger with Starwood Hotels & Resorts today, Marriott International says it plans to continue operating both programs at least through the next two years, before eventually phasing out SPG.

marriott-starwood-loyalty-program/


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## bazzap (Sep 23, 2016)

Excellent news (for me anyway) in terms of immediate linking, status match and interoperability.
Here is Marriott's own announcement
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-unparalleled-guest-experience-300333101.html


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## GreenTea (Sep 23, 2016)

It sounds like a great rewards merger.


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## GrayFal (Sep 23, 2016)

bazzap said:


> Excellent news (for me anyway) in terms of immediate linking, status match and interoperability.
> Here is Marriott's own announcement
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-unparalleled-guest-experience-300333101.html



Me, too!  We are now SPG Platinum


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## Wally3433 (Sep 23, 2016)

Nice.  Already linked my accounts.  Is there any way to verify if the 3 MR points to 1 conversion is fair?


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## vacationlover2 (Sep 23, 2016)

So, next year I will be getting two 5 night travel packages with my MR points.  Do you think I will be able to use them at Starwood?


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## Mr. Vker (Sep 23, 2016)

My accounts are SPGlunked. Premier Platinum. Looks like points transfer 3:1. But SPG take less points to stay.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 23, 2016)

Also linked!  For anybody who doesn't already have an SPG account, the process took just a few steps to register a new account and then link it with Marriott Rewards.  Go to members.marriott.com to get started.


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## tmoscola (Sep 23, 2016)

So if I am MR platinum, then I am also going to be a Starwood Platinum once I link them together?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 23, 2016)

tmoscola said:


> So if I am MR platinum, then I am also going to be a Starwood Platinum once I link them together?



Yes.   

If anybody wants to explain the basics for those of us new to SPG, it'd be much appreciated.


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## tmoscola (Sep 23, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes.
> 
> If anybody wants to explain the basics for those of us new to SPG, it'd be much appreciated.



Oh wow!! I feel like I need to go explore all their resorts now to pick my next destination.


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 23, 2016)

tmoscola said:


> Oh wow!! I feel like I need to go explore all their resorts now to pick my next destination.



I'm pretty excited also being MR lifetime platinum so if that ultimately gets extended to SPG that will be pretty awesome but the devil will be in the details.


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## GreenTea (Sep 23, 2016)

I just looked at options in Vancouver.  At the 3:1 ratio, a night in the Westin would cost less points than a night at the Marriott Pinnacle or Delta Suites.   I might be changing my trips!


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## Bill4728 (Sep 23, 2016)

So would it be better to transfer starwood pts in Marriott and get 3 pts for one?

OR transfer pts to starwood and stop the marriott reward pt creep ( where Marriott keeps raising the level of the hotels to a higher and higher category costing you more and more pts ) ?


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## jeepie (Sep 23, 2016)

Bill4728 said:


> So would it be better to transfer starwood pts in Marriott and get 3 pts for one?
> 
> OR transfer pts to starwood and stop the marriott reward pt creep ( where Marriott keeps raising the level of the hotels to a higher and higher category costing you more and more pts ) ?


The determination of which is better is likely dependent on your specific travel plans, and comparing that city's alternatives.
Now that Marriott owns Starwood, I expect devaluations/point creep to resume after the programs are merged. My recommendation...find good opportunities sooner rather than later. Points and miles are not a good "investment." Ymmv. Cheers.


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## dls0210 (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm Lifetime Platinum at Marriott. But I've never stayed at Starwood properties, so don't have a reward account with them.  Do I need to open one and link them?  

Or will I be able to see the Starwood properties when I search for stays on Marriott.com??  I thought I read somewhere that I would, but I just did a few quick searches and only see Marriotts (San Antonio, Washington DC, Rome).  Maybe Starwood just isn't in any of those places?  

Or is it better to have the Starwood account and get instant Platinum status there and do searches on their website?  Perhaps the 3-1 conversion factor makes it better to search on Starwood?

Appreciate any input.


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## catharsis (Sep 23, 2016)

Set up new spg account, link to that and search on spg.com

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## SueDonJ (Sep 23, 2016)

_Moderator Note: FYI, because there's bound to be some cross-posting between this thread and the one in the Vistana/Starwood forum:_
Merger update from "points guy" [Integrating SPG / Marriott Rewards]

***********
Check out Posts #11, #15 and any other related responses in that thread.  Looks like the spun-off Vistana Signature Experiences (Starwood timeshare properties) aren't included in the combined Brands?  I haven't yet explored booking formerly-Starwood brands with MRP - has anyone checked out whether the VSE properties come up in searches?


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## The Haileys (Sep 23, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> _Moderator Note: FYI, because there's bound to be some cross-posting between this thread and the one in the Vistana/Starwood forum:_
> Merger update from "points guy" [Integrating SPG / Marriott Rewards]
> 
> ***********
> Check out Posts #11, #15 and any other related responses in that thread.  Looks like the spun-off Vistana Signature Experiences (Starwood timeshare properties) aren't included in the combined Brands?  I haven't yet explored booking formerly-Starwood brands with MRP - has anyone checked out whether the VSE properties come up in searches?



Any of the VSE properties that also keep hotel inventory (Sheraton or Westin) should be eligible for StarPoint redemption.


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## Mr. Vker (Sep 23, 2016)

tmoscola said:


> Oh wow!! I feel like I need to go explore all their resorts now to pick my next destination.



For me, it opens up some cool places in the South Pacific we've wanted to see. When? Who knows.


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## bazzap (Sep 23, 2016)

It must be the Maldives for me.


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## thinze3 (Sep 23, 2016)

*Linked an old SPG account without any problems.*

Now let's hope Marriott doesn't change requirements for lifetime status. I am getting close to LT Gold.


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## bazzap (Sep 23, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> Now let's hope Marriott doesn't change requirements for lifetime status. I am getting close to LT Gold.


I can't disagree with that. I am LT Gold heading for LT Platinum.
I have just updated my Marriott App and found it quite a neat feature, having linked my MR and SPG accounts, that it allows me to click direct in to the SPG App.
I am less impressed, if I understand correctly, that I can't get MR Elite nights credit with SPG stays.
I also understand that MR points from MVC stays can't be transferred to SPG?
This is quite a new learning experience.


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## mash84121 (Sep 23, 2016)

For many of the categories it looks like a better deal to convert to Starwood.  It looks like the exception is on the high end hotels.  The Starwood Category 7 ranges between 30,000 and 35,000 points.  Which would require between 90,000 and 105,000 points per night if you are using MRP.  Which is significantly higher than Tier 5 Ritz Carlton at 70,000 MRP/night or the Category 9 Marriott at 45,000/night.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 23, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm pretty excited also being MR lifetime platinum so if that ultimately gets extended to SPG that will be pretty awesome but the devil will be in the details.



Ultimately MR and SPG will be merged, so there won't be a lifetime SPG. I suspect they will keep the lifetime thresholds the same and you will continue to enjoy lifetime status in the new merged program.


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## pafort (Sep 23, 2016)

*Marriott vs SPG*

until 2018 the programs run in parallel. I have already connected the two accounts.
LT are Gold with SPG, they are LT Gold with Marriott, and Marriott Platinum Premier currently up to 2.18.
For me, nothing has changed: the gold SPG benefits were very similar to Platinum SPG benefits (not the same thing for Marriott instead where you have real privileges only if you are platinum).
I think the elite marriott members have earned more than customers GSP, although the latter have had the opportunity to be LT easier.
I proceeded to do on Marriott points converting SPG points with a 1 = 3 (= 2000SPG 6000MR)
Obviously the SPG redemption nights are much more expensive, but especially now that are also platinum with SPG I starpoint 3 for every dollar, while Marriott 10 MR per dollar, then the ratio would be 1: 3.3.
10% less.
At this point, the only thing that can make Marriott to ensure the exclusivity of some benefits, which are now also available to SPG platinum, and to create an even more exclusive level (such as 1500 nights, 4 million points) providing, for this small exclusive club a mandatory upgrade to the suite (as already provided for GSP, access to longecon chance to have lunch and dinner do not eat snacks. Offering free parking, unlimited use minibar.
For example, I, as a platinum premier, I have no sole benefit, as are all the usual platinum.


From flyertalk

Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest could merge together by 2018 at the earliest.

After months of speculation, frequent travelers now know the fate of the Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest programs as the merge between the two hotel giants completes. In an interview with Travel + Leisure, executives for Marriott announced the two programs would remain separate for at least the next two years.

“Obviously there’s a lot of work to do as it relates to combining the loyalty programs,” Stephanie Linnartz, executive vice president and global chief commercial officer, said in an interview with the travel magazine. “But the great thing for consumers is that right out of the gate, they will be able to link their accounts and match their status from day one.”

While the two programs are remaining separate, the deal between Marriott and Starwood allows for travelers to link accounts and match status between the two programs. Effective today, travelers who belong to Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest can login to members.marriott.com to match their accounts, match status across accounts and transfer points. The points will transfer at a rate of three Marriott Rewards points to one Starwood Preferred Guest Starpoint.

With the programs merging at the earliest in 2018, many facets of the programs will remain the same for customers today. The combined hotel company will continue to partner with both American Express and Chase for credit cards, while travelers will not have to take any extra steps to ensure their points remain in their accounts.

“Marriott’s and Starwood’s guests have shown tremendous loyalty to our brands,” Linnartz told Travel + Leisure. “And now that we are one company, we are seizing the opportunity to reinforce our loyalty to them.”


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## pafort (Sep 23, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> Now let's hope Marriott doesn't change requirements for lifetime status. I am getting close to LT Gold.



but I hope the opposite:
in the merger must always keep in mind the number of total nights.
For example, I've had for five years the GOLD level of SPG (because with amex platinum in Italy the agreement with SPG was that, with HH gold was only the first year, with ClubCarlson Gold level only the first year ...) and for this reason I obtained in 2011 the LTGold SPG, while only 16 nights having stayed.
With Marriott instead are 4 years that I have the platinum level, of which the last two platinum premier, 555 nights, and from January LT Gold (having 1,800,000 points).
Now with the merger that will materialize in 2018 I should have 555 + 16 Total nights, and I do not know how many points I have accumulated with GSP (which should be added after appropriate conversion) and then establish new criteria for lifetime.
Otherwise there will be those who will have gained and who has lost. And this is not the spirit of a merger


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## rthib (Sep 24, 2016)

The only thing to be aware is that Marriott has stated that they have not determined how they will handle lifetime status.
As of now, your current status will link to SPG, but does not equal lifetime status.

The FAQ states they are exploring ways to reward those members and will have more information in 2018.

"If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018.


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## mav (Sep 24, 2016)

WOW!! St Regis here I come!


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## mdurette (Sep 24, 2016)

I'm linked!    Now to find out if I can use a Marriott 1-5 cert at SPG yet or if that will have to wait.


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## Mr. Vker (Sep 24, 2016)

Doing some additional research now that I'm SPG Premier Plat. SPG has multiple tiers within plat based on nights stayed. (benefits increase within Plat as your nights increase). This was not recognized for MR members linking to SPG. I have enough nights for "top tier" Plat. SPG members linking to MR get all Plat benefits. I am happy to have more flexibility but, MR has not provided for its top level members IMHO.

Similar to the United relationship. United Silver got MR Gold. We got United Silver...


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## m61376 (Sep 24, 2016)

mdurette said:


> I'm linked!    Now to find out if I can use a Marriott 1-5 cert at SPG yet or if that will have to wait.



Please post back here when you find out- that's an interesting question!


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## dioxide45 (Sep 24, 2016)

mdurette said:


> I'm linked!    Now to find out if I can use a Marriott 1-5 cert at SPG yet or if that will have to wait.



I don't think you can. You have to transfer the points between the programs and then make the appropriate booking using the points. The SPG categories don't necessarily line up the same as MR.


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## Mr. Vker (Sep 24, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think you can. You have to transfer the points between the programs and then make the appropriate booking using the points. The SPG categories don't necessarily line up the same as MR.



Correct. I don't think certs of any kind will work. The categories of not translate.


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## m61376 (Sep 24, 2016)

Not integrating the use of certificates would really limit program integration, since the real value is combining certificates with mileage in MR travel packages.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 24, 2016)

m61376 said:


> Not integrating the use of certificates would really limit program integration, since the real value is combining certificates with mileage in MR travel packages.



They will all get integrated at some point when they harmonize the programs in to a single reward program. I just don't see them allowing certificate bookings between the two programs before then. Perhaps they can somehow map the categories and allow this, I think though that it brings other challenges with regard to how the reservation systems work.


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## Beaglemom3 (Sep 24, 2016)

Merged my accounts today. EZ-PZ.

Had a great representative, Courtney, who guided me through the process. My SPG account had been inactive for a few years having sold my WSJ a while back plus, I had a name change, but she helped to make all right.

I see so many more choices with European hotels. In particular, my favorite places, London, Paris, Ireland and soon, Austria. Looking forward to figuring out "the more bang for my buck (points)" strategy.

Oh, Courtney mentioned that they, SPG, are in Cuba, too, but I did not go into that with her as I will go with a group when I do go, but it's good to know.

Happy trails.


-


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## fleming4 (Sep 24, 2016)

So, if I get one Starpoint for each dollar charged to the SPG AmEx card, and if I can get 3 MRPs for each Starpoint, it would appear that using the SPG AmEx card for usual daily expenses (groceries, bills, etc.) would yield 3 Marriott Reward Points per dollar. Is that correct, or am I missing something?


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## mdurette (Sep 24, 2016)

Mr. Vker said:


> Correct. I don't think certs of any kind will work. The categories of not translate.




Went  researching, correct  - no cert or travel packages yet.   Just points transfers between accounts.


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## jeepie (Sep 24, 2016)

fleming4 said:


> So, if I get one Starpoint for each dollar charged to the SPG AmEx card, and if I can get 3 MRPs for each Starpoint, it would appear that using the SPG AmEx card for usual daily expenses (groceries, bills, etc.) would yield 3 Marriott Reward Points per dollar. Is that correct, or am I missing something?


Correct! You will just need to move the Starpoints to your MR account.


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## pacheco18 (Sep 24, 2016)

I read an interview on The Points Guy where the Marriott rep "seemed to say -- trying to get clarification" that points you receive for exchanging your timeshare (eg electing not to use in a given year and taking points instead) may NOT be traded for Starwood points -- at least this is how I interpret it:

This is a quote from Thom Kozik from Marriott:

TK: One smaller wrinkle with folks who are timeshare owners in both programs is the *points that you were granted for your ownership of a timeshare* can’t be transferred into the respective program. Any of the points earned for your stays and on the credit card are absolutely transferable, but the points that were granted for you as an accelerator on purchase are restricted to within your home program.


Can anyone confirm


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## dioxide45 (Sep 24, 2016)

pacheco18 said:


> I read an interview on The Points Guy where the Marriott rep "seemed to say -- trying to get clarification" that points you receive for exchanging your timeshare (eg electing not to use in a given year and taking points instead) may NOT be traded for Starwood points -- at least this is how I interpret it:
> 
> This is a quote from Thom Kozik from Marriott:
> 
> ...



If they use the same method to track this as they use to track not being able to use MR points from weeks conversion to book back in to a MVC property, then there should be no issue. MR had no mechanism to track the source of the points to prevent people using them for MVC stays.


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## pacheco18 (Sep 24, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> If they use the same method to track this as they use to track not being able to use MR points from weeks conversion to book back in to a MVC property, then there should be no issue. MR had no mechanism to track the source of the points to prevent people using them for MVC stays.



That is what I was thinking.  How do they know which points I earned through paid hotel stays or credit card charges or which ones were part or an exchange for points -- and then how do they determine which ones I spend after that?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 24, 2016)

pacheco18 said:


> I read an interview on The Points Guy where the Marriott rep "seemed to say -- trying to get clarification" that points you receive for exchanging your timeshare (eg electing not to use in a given year and taking points instead) may NOT be traded for Starwood points -- at least this is how I interpret it:
> 
> This is a quote from Thom Kozik from Marriott:
> 
> ...





dioxide45 said:


> If they use the same method to track this as they use to track not being able to use MR points from weeks conversion to book back in to a MVC property, then there should be no issue. MR had no mechanism to track the source of the points to prevent people using them for MVC stays.



If you see my post #18, I'm more concerned that the combined Brands don't include Vistana timeshares.  Am I missing something or can we not use MRP for VSE timeshares?


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## dioxide45 (Sep 25, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> If you see my post #18, I'm more concerned that the combined Brands don't include Vistana timeshares.  Am I missing something or can we not use MRP for VSE timeshares?



You can't use MRP for VSE timeshares or vice versa, but you can still use SPG points for VSE timeshares or MR points for MVC. The question is, is there actually a system in place where MR or SPG knows the source of the points to prevent them from being transferred? It would seem as long as you can get them transferred to the respective program, then you could use them for any type of reservation allowed within that rewards program.

It was always told to us that you can't use MR points from converting your week to points for use at MVC properties. However, that restriction was meaningless since MR didn't have a way to determine the source of the points. So there was really no limitation. Have they fixed that?

To answer your question, based on the FAQ below, you can't use MRP for a VSE timeshare. However, that is just what the rules say. In practice it may be different.



> *Can I transfer points I earned through an interest in Vistana™ Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club®?*
> Points earned through an interest in Vistana Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club may not be transferred between SPG and Rewards.


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## pacheco18 (Sep 25, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> You can't use MRP for VSE timeshares or vice versa, but you can still use SPG points for VSE timeshares or MR points for MVC. The question is, is there actually a system in place where MR or SPG knows the source of the points to prevent them from being transferred? It would seem as long as you can get them transferred to the respective program, then you could use them for any type of reservation allowed within that rewards program.
> 
> It was always told to us that you can't use MR points from converting your week to points for use at MVC properties. However, that restriction was meaningless since MR didn't have a way to determine the source of the points. So there was really no limitation. Have they fixed that?
> 
> To answer your question, based on the FAQ below, you can't use MRP for a VSE timeshare. However, that is just what the rules say. In practice it may be different.




I hope the first person who tries this will let us know whether or not the transfer went through.  i have a ton of points from trading my TS for points each year.  I hope I can exchange some of them for SPG points


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## dioxide45 (Sep 25, 2016)

pacheco18 said:


> I hope the first person who tries this will let us know whether or not the transfer went through.  i have a ton of points from trading my TS for points each year.  I hope I can exchange some of them for SPG points



Perhaps you can be that first person.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 25, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> You can't use MRP for VSE timeshares or vice versa, but you can still use SPG points for VSE timeshares or MR points for MVC. The question is, is there actually a system in place where MR or SPG knows the source of the points to prevent them from being transferred? It would seem as long as you can get them transferred to the respective program, then you could use them for any type of reservation allowed within that rewards program.
> 
> It was always told to us that you can't use MR points from converting your week to points for use at MVC properties. However, that restriction was meaningless since MR didn't have a way to determine the source of the points. So there was really no limitation. Have they fixed that?
> 
> To answer your question, based on the FAQ below, you can't use MRP for a VSE timeshare. However, that is just what the rules say. In practice it may be different.



I don't think I'm phrasing this correctly.  

For now and until MR and SPG are fully integrated, then I expect that MR Points when converted to SPG Points will be usable for VSE timeshare stays.  (At least, any MRP not earned by exchanging MVW timeshares - although the system may allow that as it always has.)

No, what I'm trying to figure out is the ramifications now and down the road of the VSE timeshares not being included at all in the combined Brands listing - click the "Compare Brands" box at this link.  Unless I'm missing something I'm assuming this means that MI has not affiliated with VSE at all, so am wondering what people think this might mean down the road if they never do?  I understand that of course VSE isn't included in the MI/Starwood takeover - but I've been thinking all along that the affiliation between SPG and VSE would be represented in some way, and would extend to MR when MR and SPG are fully integrated.

I guess I just never considered that VSE would be left out completely when MI finishes completely integrating Starwood, if that's what will be happening?


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## pacheco18 (Sep 25, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps you can be that first person.



Maybe
Truthfully I love the value in the packages so I can get the miles.  We love flying business class for free.  I care much less about hotel stays.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 25, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I don't think I'm phrasing this correctly.
> 
> For now and until MR and SPG are fully integrated, then I expect that MR Points when converted to SPG Points will be usable for VSE timeshare stays.  (At least, any MRP not earned by exchanging MVW timeshares - although the system may allow that as it always has.)
> 
> ...



I think is is just how Marriott and Starwood refer differently to their brands. With Marriott, they have the Marriott Vacation Club brand. Within the old Starwood, VSE operated under the Westin and Sheraton brands. Marriott calls MVC them out separately as a separate brand where Starwood did not. I expect them to be included as long as the VSE timeshares have the Westin or Sheraton label on them. The one issue is, with VSE, is how do they handle the few properties that they have that don't carry the Sheraton or Westin labels?


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## Ken555 (Sep 25, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> I don't think I'm phrasing this correctly.
> 
> For now and until MR and SPG are fully integrated, then I expect that MR Points when converted to SPG Points will be usable for VSE timeshare stays.  (At least, any MRP not earned by exchanging MVW timeshares - although the system may allow that as it always has.)



Not all Vistana (how I hate that name) properties will have availability redemption via SPG StarPoints. Most do, but not all, and sometimes availability is very tight.



> No, what I'm trying to figure out is the ramifications now and down the road of the VSE timeshares not being included at all in the combined Brands listing - click the "Compare Brands" box at this link.  Unless I'm missing something I'm assuming this means that MI has not affiliated with VSE at all, so am wondering what people think this might mean down the road if they never do?  I understand that of course VSE isn't included in the MI/Starwood takeover - but I've been thinking all along that the affiliation between SPG and VSE would be represented in some way, and would extend to MR when MR and SPG are fully integrated.
> 
> I guess I just never considered that VSE would be left out completely when MI finishes completely integrating Starwood, if that's what will be happening?




Vistana owners have been assured that they will continue to have association with the hotels, so I think you're overly worrying at this point. Vistana resorts aren't part of Marriott, so don't show up on their list. I wouldn't be surprised, though, to find them there a year or so from now as affiliated resorts, etc. This has been discussed repeatedly for many months on the Starwood (~Vistana) forum.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigMac (Sep 25, 2016)

This could get interesting. Starwood spins off its timeshares as a separate unit (VSE) and then sells it to Interval Leisure Group in May 2016. As part of the sale Starwood gets about 60% of ILG's shares and 4 members of an 11 member board. So I suppose this means that Marriott will own a majority of ILG's shares. In addition to the Westin, Sheraton and Hyatt timeshares, ILG also owns Interval international.
Wonder what Marriott International will do with all of this.


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## The Haileys (Sep 25, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps you can be that first person.



I did a test transfer from my mixed bag of SPG points, earned from VSE owner update attendance, VSE purchase bonus, SPG Gold stay awards and earning, SPG Amex spending and bonus on VSE MFs, and while I did not submit the transfer, it looks like it would do a 1 to 3 transfer from SPG to MR. 

I can't imagine how they would be able to sort out the origin of the points, since they're all dumped into one bucket, and if there's been redemptions, which points are redeemed first? 

I posted this similar question on the SPG Facebook page, and they quit answering me ... LOL! :whoopie:


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 25, 2016)

I am trying to figure out why I'd even want to keep the Starwood card.  I can never get Platinum status with either program, and there are negligible benefits for paying the $95 fee each year.  What do I get for the fee?  

With Club Carlson, I get 40K points each year for the $75 annual fee, which is one free night.  I keep it for that reason.

With IHG, I get a free night each year, annual fee of $49, and we have stayed in Seattle at the Crown Plaza for our free night a few times. 

With Hyatt, I get a free night each year, category 1-4 hotel, $75 fee.


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## taffy19 (Sep 25, 2016)

Some questions and answers here.  I hope that it's OK to link to that?  I am listening to it now.


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## Pat H (Sep 26, 2016)

*Marriott Gold v SPG Gold*

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question so feel free to move it. I reach SPG Gold every year due to credit card spending. Does Marriott give you gold for reaching a $ amount in spending or can you only earn it by stays? What's the difference in perks between the two? I know the programs won't be merging for awhile but I'm curious. TIA.


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## alchook (Sep 26, 2016)

It seems another advantage to the merger is the ability to buy points, if you're so inclined. Marriott allows the purchase of up to 50,000 points per year. Starwood allows the purchase of 30,000 points per year, which can be transferred to Marriott at a 3:1 ratio, for a total of 140,000 points per year.

Anyway, I think I got that right.


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## VacationForever (Sep 26, 2016)

Pat H said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to post this question so feel free to move it. I reach SPG Gold every year due to credit card spending. Does Marriott give you gold for reaching a $ amount in spending or can you only earn it by stays? What's the difference in perks between the two? I know the programs won't be merging for awhile but I'm curious. TIA.



Pat,
Marriott credit card gives 15 nights per year as freebie. Every 3k spent gets 1 night. Marriott stays get whatever number of nights, 1 to 1.  Total of 50 nights give you gold.  Marriott gold is much better than SPG gold.  When I stay at Marriott internationally, with gold, I get free food and drinks, including alcohol, pretty much all day, at their lounge.


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2016)

sptung said:


> Marriott credit card gives 15 nights per year as freebie.



Please clarify.


----------



## jeepie (Sep 26, 2016)

*Just link your accounts*



Pat H said:


> I reach SPG Gold every year due to credit card spending. Does Marriott give you gold for reaching a $ amount in spend...


Just link your SPG and MR accounts. MR Gold will be automatic. Cheers.


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## Fasttr (Sep 26, 2016)

Pat H said:


> Does Marriott give you gold for reaching a $ amount in spending or can you only earn it by stays?





sptung said:


> Pat,
> Marriott credit card gives 15 nights per year as freebie. Every 3k spent gets 1 night. Marriott stays get whatever number of nights, 1 to 1.  Total of 50 nights give you gold.





DeniseM said:


> Please clarify.



Status in Marriott system is based on # of elite nights earned.  You can earn them various ways....from stays, via spending on Marriott credit card, etc.  The credit card provides you with 15 elite nights on each anniversary of your credit card (as does it also provide you with 1 free night stay at a category 1-5), and you also get 1 elite night for each $3K spent on the card as sptung noted.  10 elite nights gets you Silver, 50 Gold, 75 Platinum.


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## thinze3 (Sep 26, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Please clarify.



With the Marriott Chase card you get 15 nights credited to your account to be used toward your elite status. Since 10 nights gets you silver elite status, you essentially start the year off as a Silver Elite member.


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## DeniseM (Sep 26, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> With the Marriott Chase card you get 15 nights credited to your account to be used toward your elite status. Since 15 nights gets you silver elite status, you essentially start the year off as a Silver Elite member.



Ok - so you just get credit for them - not actual free nights.


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## thinze3 (Sep 26, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Ok - so you just get credit for them - not actual free nights.



Correct.
You do get one free night certificate to use in a Cat 1-5 hotel each year as well.


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## catharsis (Sep 26, 2016)

As someone who has been both for several years as well as being plat in each program also for several years, the benefits of SPG gold were generally nonexistent whereas marriott gold was significant.   My experience could have been skewed because the majority of our stays were outside North America, but reasonably frequent suite upgrades coupled with lounge access and essentially mandatory breakfast  made Marriott Gold the second most important status I have after FF membership.

SPG plat and in particular plat 75 and plat100 are great, but Marriott Gold is many times superior to SPG Gold.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 26, 2016)

thinze3 said:


> Correct.
> You do get one free night certificate to use in a Cat 1-5 hotel each year as well.



That alone is worth the card's annual fee. We stay in hotels 4-6 nights a year. 

Even though I attained Gold Elite Status with my transfer of Starpoints to Marriott, I will have to retain the status by staying at the hotels, right?  So I am going to lose that status, even though I have a huge number of Marriott points.  

Can you transfer Marriott points to Ultimate Rewards?  My head is reeling with all of this info.  

I told poor Rick I need to re-assess all of our credit cards.  The Starwood card does absolutely nothing to warrant my devotion.  Ultimate Rewards points are just better for me.  I am getting so spoiled on those points, and I finally understand that system.  It's taken awhile.


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## thinze3 (Sep 26, 2016)

Until they completely implement the "new" system, your SPG Amex will keep you SPG gold which in turn will keep you Marriott gold. In 2018 Marriott may have both Amex and Chase Visa on board, who knows? An even then who knows what the perks will be.

But yes, I usually have about 25 stay nights, and when added to my Marriott card 15 nights and about 5 more bonus nights, it is just enough to keep me gold elite. This year, like most, I will be a little short, but they have yet to downgrade me to silver.

After next year I will have enough nights to be Lifetime Gold so won't have to worry about it anymore.



Added:


rickandcindy23 said:


> Ultimate Rewards points are just better for me.  I am getting so spoiled on those points, and I finally understand that system.  It's taken awhile.



I just got the Reserve Card, so I will be picking your brain soon enough.


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## alchook (Sep 26, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am trying to figure out why I'd even want to keep the Starwood card.



The one advantage I can see is getting one Starpoint per dollar of non-travel expenses. That would translate into three Marriott Rewards points, which is a better return than you get with other cards.


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## The Haileys (Sep 26, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> That alone is worth the card's annual fee. We stay in hotels 4-6 nights a year.
> 
> Even though I attained Gold Elite Status with my transfer of Starpoints to Marriott, I will have to retain the status by staying at the hotels, right?  So I am going to lose that status, even though I have a huge number of Marriott points.
> 
> ...



There is one huge advantage of the SPG Amex over the MR Visa ... points earned from spending. Both award one point per dollar spent, for the most part - some spending categories are higher, ie., MR hotel spend is 5x while SPG is 3x, but the point earned from the dollar spent on the SPG Amex is equal to three MR points, while the MR Visa is one MR point per dollar spent, hence 1/3 of a SPG point.  

Or, 
On SPG Amex spend $3000 get 3000 SPG points, or 9000 MR points
On MR Visa spend $3000 get 3000 MR points, or 1000 SPG points 

We use the Amex for nearly all our day to day spending, so it makes more sense to keep that rather than get the MR Visa. Most of our travel is our timeshare weeks, and point redemption with very little hotel spending. 

Definitely a YMMV thing.


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## VacationForever (Sep 26, 2016)

We have both credit cards and enjoy the perks of Marriott Gold Elite through accumulation of nights.  Star points is more valuable through SPG card.  We intend to continue to keep both until 2018.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 26, 2016)

I just checked Rick's SPG account, and he is now Gold Preferred, earning 3X instead of 2X points on our SBP fees.  Hmmmm.....wish I could have waited a little longer to pay my 2017 fees.


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## m61376 (Sep 26, 2016)

Oops- thought I accidentally didn't enter my earlier post and then found it


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## sfwilshire (Sep 26, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes.
> 
> If anybody wants to explain the basics for those of us new to SPG, it'd be much appreciated.



And, with your SPG linked to Delta, you get some bennies there, most noticeably a free bag check. I have been avoiding Delta (who I really like to fly) because I have status on AA from flying and status with United based on my Marriott status. Now SPG gives me some Delta perks, so I'm good to go!

Sheila


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## Sandy VDH (Sep 26, 2016)

Combined I will be at 494 nights for lifetime Gold status, but since SPG doesn't use a point tracker but rather just a night tracker, I am not sure what will happen.  Perhaps they will have to do some adjustments.  I hope.


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## JMSH (Sep 27, 2016)

Not sure if this has been answered.....under the MVCI will SPG locations be treated as an internal Marriott exchange with II?


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## Ron98GT (Sep 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am trying to figure out why I'd even want to keep the Starwood card.  I can never get Platinum status with either program, and there are negligible benefits for paying the $95 fee each year.  What do I get for the fee?
> 
> With Club Carlson, I get 40K points each year for the $75 annual fee, which is one free night.  I keep it for that reason.
> 
> ...


I take it these are credit cards?


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## VacationForever (Sep 27, 2016)

JMSH said:


> Not sure if this has been answered.....under the MVCI will SPG locations be treated as an internal Marriott exchange with II?



No. Vistana timeshares are under ILG, no relationship to MVCI.


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## DeniseM (Sep 27, 2016)

JMSH said:


> Not sure if this has been answered.....under the MVCI will SPG locations be treated as an internal Marriott exchange with II?



SPG = Starwood Preferred Guests = *Hotels* (now managed by Marriott)

II = Interval International = exchange company.

Sometimes _hotels_ are deposited in Interval, but I don't know if Marriott deposits _hotel_ inventory.

If you are asking about Vistana TIMESHARES - they are not affiliated with Marriott timeshares, so no.


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## icydog (Sep 27, 2016)

pafort said:


> but I hope the opposite:
> in the merger must always keep in mind the number of total nights.
> For example, I've had for five years the GOLD level of SPG (because with amex platinum in Italy the agreement with SPG was that, with HH gold was only the first year, with ClubCarlson Gold level only the first year ...) and for this reason I obtained in 2011 the LTGold SPG, while only 16 nights having stayed.
> With Marriott instead are 4 years that I have the platinum level, of which the last two platinum premier, 555 nights, and from January LT Gold (having 1,800,000 points).
> ...




I want to understand your post but I'm a little mixed up on one key point.  You are Gold Level with SPG.  AND you're worried about your status remaining Gold in both programs and your points being merged.  From everything I read-- you have nothing to worry about!


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> I take it these are credit cards?



Yep, and two are Chase.  I have a lot of Chase cards. 

Hyatt is my favorite card.  I hope to stay in Hyatt hotels in Europe this next year.  

If any of those cards choose to stop giving an award night for renewal, I will drop the card.  That is the only benefit keeping me from canceling the Club Carlson card.  IHG has hotels in a lot of areas where hotels are scarce.  We stayed in Holiday Inns in Durango and Montrose, CO,and I literally couldn't find anything else in a point system I could book.  

Also, Oakland airport has two nice Holiday Inns.  The problem is the exchange rate, points vs. cash.  Some hotel rooms are 35,000 points, or you can pay $150.  That is not a good use of my Ultimate Rewards points. It's a huge waste, actually.  

The Starwood Amex is looking better at 3X my MF's at our newly-achieved Gold status.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 27, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> SPG = Starwood Preferred Guests = *Hotels* (now managed by Marriott)
> 
> II = Interval International = exchange company.
> 
> ...



Occasionally, not very often, a few Residence Inn properties might be seen in II.  Most common is Vancouver but I think there was an Anaheim deposit mentioned in a Sightings thread recently?  You won't see any of the other hotel brands in II unless something changes between MI (Marriott Int'l) and MVW (Marriott Vacations Worldwide,) but I don't think we've seen anything that leads to that expectation.


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## burg1121 (Sep 27, 2016)

I'm bummed now Marriott can ruin a great points program like they ruined their own.


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## Pat H (Sep 27, 2016)

jeepie said:


> Just link your SPG and MR accounts. MR Gold will be automatic. Cheers.



I did that already. What I was looking for was whether I would be better or worse off after the merger.


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## Pat H (Sep 27, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Status in Marriott system is based on # of elite nights earned.  You can earn them various ways....from stays, via spending on Marriott credit card, etc.  The credit card provides you with 15 elite nights on each anniversary of your credit card (as does it also provide you with 1 free night stay at a category 1-5), and you also get 1 elite night for each $3K spent on the card as sptung noted.  10 elite nights gets you Silver, 50 Gold, 75 Platinum.



So $30,000 in spending would get me 10 nights + 15 from the card. In order to reach Gold, I'd have to spend over $100,000. Not very good for me.


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## VacationForever (Sep 27, 2016)

Pat H said:


> So $30,000 in spending would get me 10 nights + 15 from the card. In order to reach Gold, I'd have to spend over $100,000. Not very good for me.



Nights stayed at Marriott hotel or timeshare count towards elite nights.  Getting gold through timeshare stays is easy peasy.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 27, 2016)

JMSH said:


> Not sure if this has been answered.....under the MVCI will SPG locations be treated as an internal Marriott exchange with II?



I think what you are actually answering, will Marriott owners get preference when trading in to Vistana (Sheraton and Westin) timeshare properties through II? If so, the answer is no. Only the hotel companies merged. Marriott International and Marriott Vacation Club have been separate companies now for years. Starwood spun off and sold its timeshare division to Interval Leisure group earlier this year and it is now called Vistana Signature Experiences. Vistana and Marriott Vacation Club are two separate companies in now way related other than they are both affiliated through Interval International for external exchanges. So Marriott timeshare owners will not get any kind of advance preference when trying to trade in to Vistana properties in II. The same is true for Vistana owners wanting to trade in to Marriott. The full exchange fee will also apply.


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## Mamianka (Sep 27, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> _Moderator Note: FYI, because there's bound to be some cross-posting between this thread and the one in the Vistana/Starwood forum:_
> Merger update from "points guy" [Integrating SPG / Marriott Rewards]
> 
> ***********
> Check out Posts #11, #15 and any other related responses in that thread.  Looks like the spun-off Vistana Signature Experiences (Starwood timeshare properties) aren't included in the combined Brands?  I haven't yet explored booking formerly-Starwood brands with MRP - has anyone checked out whether the VSE properties come up in searches?



Could have sworn I asked about this, but cannot find it.  I know that we are talking about HOTEL inventory - but I also know that some timeshares list some of their inventory as if they were hotel rooms - which we could then book on our MRPs or Starwood points.  Anyone a LOT smarter than me, go thru the Vistana ( of whichever one we need) list to find out which of the timeshares DO list some inventory as if they were hotel rooms?  An eventual Sticky would be great.

Thanks,
Mamianka


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## DeniseM (Sep 27, 2016)

If you are asking if you can use Starpoints to make Vistana timeshare reservations - the answer is yes.  

You can go to SPG, and search by resort name, for availability.

But that doesn't mean they are considered to be Starwood "hotels."

***It's also really expensive to use Starpoints - just did a quick look at the Maui resorts and the lowest Starpoint rate was 20,000 Starpoints per  night.

However, if I convert my 2 bdm. L/O to Starpoints, I only get 80,000 Starpoints.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 27, 2016)

Mamianka said:


> Could have sworn I asked about this, but cannot find it.  I know that we are talking about HOTEL inventory - but I also know that some timeshares list some of their inventory as if they were hotel rooms - which we could then book on our MRPs or Starwood points.  Anyone a LOT smarter than me, go thru the Vistana ( of whichever one we need) list to find out which of the timeshares DO list some inventory as if they were hotel rooms?  An eventual Sticky would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mamianka



Just like Marriott lists weeks for rent on Marriott.com, Vistana does the same on the Starwood website. This would apply to all of their properties. ALl based on availability. The inventory comes from either developer owned intervals or weeks that owners turn in for SPG points. Pretty much the same as how Marriott works.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2016)

sptung said:


> Nights stayed at Marriott hotel or timeshare count towards elite nights.  Getting gold through timeshare stays is easy peasy.



Really?  I need the Marriott card!  How does it work with timeshares?


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## michael49 (Sep 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Really?  I need the Marriott card!  How does it work with timeshares?


You get one credit for every night of your stay.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 27, 2016)

sptung said:


> Nights stayed at Marriott hotel or timeshare count towards elite nights.  Getting gold through timeshare stays is easy peasy.





rickandcindy23 said:


> Really?  I need the Marriott card!  How does it work with timeshares?



It is only easy if you have two to three weeks of timeshare. You need to couple that with the credit card for 15 elite nights along with spend on the card to add more. Even with four Marriott weeks a year, it hasn't been easy for us, we have had to rely on rollover nights to make gold most years.


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> That alone is worth the card's annual fee. We stay in hotels 4-6 nights a year.
> 
> Even though I attained Gold Elite Status with my transfer of Starpoints to Marriott, I will have to retain the status by staying at the hotels, right?  So I am going to lose that status, even though I have a huge number of Marriott points.
> 
> ...




I like Ultimate Rewards too.  That's my everyday, use for everything card.  The only exceptions are my United Pres Plus Master Card that I use for United only, the same with my Marriott And Amazon Visas.  Otherwise, my charging is 100% on the Chase Sapphire Visa Card. I use those Ultimate Reward Points to buy airfare on SWA for my family.  So far I've purchased 8 tickets on SWA using URPs. 

You can stay in hotels for elite status nights or you can stay in Marriott Timeshares.  A lot of us are Gold or Platinum due to our timeshare stays.  

You can't transfer Marriott Rewards Points to Ultimate Reward Points but you CAN transfer Ultimate Reward Points into Marriott Reward Points.


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

alchook said:


> It seems another advantage to the merger is the ability to buy points, if you're so inclined. Marriott allows the purchase of up to 50,000 points per year. Starwood allows the purchase of 30,000 points per year, which can be transferred to Marriott at a 3:1 ratio, for a total of 140,000 points per year.
> 
> Anyway, I think I got that right.



This is an intersting concept but what's the actual cost to buy a point in each program.  If Marriott charges 33% of a what SPG charges per point---It's a wash.  HOWEVER if the CPP is the same, then your scenario makes a lot of sense (and cents too!)


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

sfwilshire said:


> And, with your SPG linked to Delta, you get some bennies there, most noticeably a free bag check. I have been avoiding Delta (who I really like to fly) because I have status on AA from flying and status with United based on my Marriott status. Now SPG gives me some Delta perks, so I'm good to go!
> 
> Sheila




Your SPG what? The SPG Amex card or your SPG Awards Account? Do you get this perk by virtue of being a SPG member?


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> SPG = Starwood Preferred Guests = *Hotels* (now managed by Marriott)
> 
> II = Interval International = exchange company.
> 
> ...



Thanks Denise!


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## Fasttr (Sep 28, 2016)

icydog said:


> Your SPG what? The SPG Amex card or your SPG Awards Account? Do you get this perk by virtue of being a SPG member?



SPG Awards Account.  See details here....  https://www.delta.com/profile/spgLanding.action


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

fasttr said:


> spg awards account.  See details here....  https://www.delta.com/profile/spglanding.action




WOW, just WOW!


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## catharsis (Sep 28, 2016)

icydog said:


> This is an intersting concept but what's the actual cost to buy a point in each program.  If Marriott charges 33% of a what SPG charges per point---It's a wash.  HOWEVER if the CPP is the same, then your scenario makes a lot of sense (and cents too!)


The benefit isn't the cost it's the ability to increase the number of points purchasable per year from 50000 to 140000.


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## pacheco18 (Sep 28, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> If they use the same method to track this as they use to track not being able to use MR points from weeks conversion to book back in to a MVC property, then there should be no issue. MR had no mechanism to track the source of the points to prevent people using them for MVC stays.



FYI.  These points WILL now be tracked.  I have had a great VOA for years and I asked him about how the points will be tracked.  Here is his response.

*Yes they now can.  We noticed a modification to the Marriott Reward system a few weeks ago.  That modification showed points from Marriott Vacation Club listed separately.  We didn’t know why they added that modification to what we see in their systems.

Now it makes sense what that modification was for.  We had no clue that it was going to be about the merger until the Starwood deal was finalized.  I figured it out last Thursday after some training.

That modification will do two things.

Not allow those points to be transferred to SPG since they are now displayed as MVCI points, and now we most likely won’t be able to apply those points to a stay at a Marriott Vacation Club villas.

There has always been a point restriction along those lines.   Marriott Reward terms and conditions have always stated that Marriott Reward Points that come from trading your week can’t be used to stay at villas.  When people have a lot of points coming from all the different sources, we haven’t sat down with a calculator to determine eligible points.  Now they have a way to track where points come from, so that rule will now be easy to enforce. 

Granted, it is still hard to use Marriott Reward points for stays at villas but now folks will have to use points from other sources like the Visa card or hotel stays.
*


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## melroseman (Sep 28, 2016)

This is a pretty major change.  It is true that theoretically timeshare points were supposed to be treated differently, but in reality points were points.  There is still no distinction on Marriott's website, and my 650,000 (including many MVC related) are not separated into "buckets."  If this is happening, I trust it will happen going forward.

I wonder if we can get definitive information.  Not doubting Pacheco18's  second-hand info, but word directly from Marriott would be helpful...


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## pacheco18 (Sep 28, 2016)

melroseman said:


> This is a pretty major change.  It is true that theoretically timeshare points were supposed to be treated differently, but in reality points were points.  There is still no distinction on Marriott's website, and my 650,000 (including many MVC related) are not separated into "buckets."  If this is happening, I trust it will happen going forward.
> 
> I wonder if we can get definitive information.  Not doubting Pacheco18's  second-hand info, but word directly from Marriott would be helpful...



The info is from my Marriott voa. He knows everything and asks if he doesn't. He has been with Marriott 20 years. I consider it definitive. We won't know until someone tries to convert the points in the timeshare bucket to SPG points but I am not inclined to try.


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## Fasttr (Sep 28, 2016)

pacheco18 said:


> The info is from my Marriott voa. He knows everything and asks if he doesn't. He has been with Marriott 20 years. I consider it definitive. We won't know until someone tries to convert the points in the timeshare bucket to SPG points but I am not inclined to try.



Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment.  If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.

Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort.  Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?

Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.


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## Pat H (Sep 28, 2016)

One of my favorite benefits from SPG points is the 5000 bonus miles for transferring SPG points to AA miles. Recent promo from AA gave an additional 20% bonus.


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## bazzap (Sep 28, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment.  If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.
> 
> Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort.  Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?
> 
> Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.


Surely, Marriott will not appliy this retrospectively?
And one would hope that if Marriott are now tracking the source of points and will be applying usage restrictions, we as members will also be able to see our points / source breakdown?


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## pacheco18 (Sep 28, 2016)

Fasttr said:


> Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment.  If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.
> 
> Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort.  Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?
> 
> Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.



I have asked my VOA the following two questions:

*Can I as an owner see my two buckets of points and how they are divided?

When I use points for a hotel stay may I direct from which bucket they are taken?*

Here is his response

*You will have to ask these two questions of Marriott Rewards.  This information is part of the internal systems that Marriott uses.   If you check the Marriott Rewards web site, the point balance may look different than it always has.

The points are not in two buckets.  They are all your points and are in one place.  The only reason for this change is internal.  The system now differentiates where the points come from for the purposes of dealing with SPG regarding points that come from weeks.  That way they won’t be transferred inadvertently to Starwood points.  Other than that, there is no difference what you can use Marriott Reward points for, other than possibly booking villas points that come from villas.

Check the Marriott Reward web site to see what it shows.
*


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## bazzap (Sep 28, 2016)

I have just checked my account.
My Rewards are shown by type
Hotel Stay
Bonus
Rewards 
Events
Transfer
Badge
This may well be new, but to be honest I have probably never really looked before so I am not too sure.
With a recent Travel Package purchase, I have just about used up all the 2.5 million points I had so the latest changes will have limited impact on me however it pans out but we shall see.


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## Werner Weiss (Sep 28, 2016)

Marriott has an excellent FAQ about account linking, status match, points transfer, earning/redeeming points, and related subjects: 

http://members.marriott.com/faq/

The FAQ uses the names *Rewards* and *SPG* to refer to the two programs. That makes sense because Rewards comes in two versions — Marriott Rewards and The Ritz-Carlton Rewards — which are really the same program, but branded in two ways.

Here's that the FAQ has about points earned through the two timeshare companies:

*Can I transfer points I earned through an interest in Vistana™ Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club®?*

Points earned through an interest in Vistana Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club may not be transferred between SPG and Rewards.​
I have theory why Marriott needed to impose this restriction.

Marriott Vacation Club (MVC) and Vistana Signature Experiences (VSE) are two entirely separate companies, although both license brands from Marriott International. MVC licenses Marriott and Ritz-Carlton for vacation ownership. VSE licenses Sheraton and Westin (which are now owned by Marriott International) for timeshares.

MVC and VSE both have long-term contracts to use Interval International (II) as their exclusive, official exchange company for cross-company exchanges, with II integrated into both programs.

Interval Leisure Group owns II and VSE, but that's not a factor here.

Many MVC owners have the option to receive Rewards points through their ownership interest — by turning in an ownership week or Destination Points. My understanding is that many VSE owners have a similar option to receive SPG Starpoints.

It is now possible to transfer points between Rewards accounts and SPG accounts. That's a wonderful option, given that the newly combined Marriott International has around 5,700 hotels.

However, if points received through timeshare interests could be used to book stays at other timeshares, Marriott International would effectively be a timeshare exchange company. The "clean" way to prevent this is by imposing the restriction in the FAQ — even though this also prevents other point redemptions (such as not being able to use MVC ownership to stay at a W Hotel).

There have been interesting questions raised in this thread about "buckets" of points. My guess — and this is only a guess — is that points from timeshare ownership are automatically used first toward hotel stays. So the transfer restriction would only come into play if fewer points in the balance were earned from other sources (hotel stays, credit card, bonuses) than what someone is trying to transfer. That would be the straightforward way.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 28, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> Marriott has an excellent FAQ about account linking, status match, points transfer, earning/redeeming points, and related subjects:
> 
> http://members.marriott.com/faq/
> 
> ...



You have hit the nail on the head. This is likely why previously they indicated that there was a restriction in using MR points to book back in to MVC properties. It would seem by allowing that and perhaps allowing VSE and MVC to transfer SPG and MR points between accounts would create in essence as an exchange company as you indicate. This would cause other disclosure requirements and filings with the state of Florida among perhaps other states. Marriott International doesn't want to be in the exchange company business.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 29, 2016)

Interesting that they plan to track the source of the points going forward.  I know for a fact that in the past Marriott Rewards had no ability to do this, so it won't be possible for them to do this with MR points previously accumulated.


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## Mamianka (Sep 30, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Just like Marriott lists weeks for rent on Marriott.com, Vistana does the same on the Starwood website. This would apply to all of their properties. ALl based on availability. The inventory comes from either developer owned intervals or weeks that owners turn in for SPG points. Pretty much the same as how Marriott works.




I did not think that ALL the Vistana time shares would have some inventory that you could get for MRPS (converted to SPG points.). I do not think ALL Marriott timeshares set aside inventory that can be obtained with MRPs (or am I wrong about THIS, too?).  So - are you saying that instead of us plowing thru all their Vistana properties to see IF we can use SPG points - that those who DO allow this, will just be the ones that pop up on the Starwood site?  Gee, that would save tons of research time!  Or, am I missing something here?  Just when we though we had this figured out- BOOM- doubt.  I will go take a look later today - and see if this makes it easier. I guess I will have to have one list of all Vistana locations- and then check the Starwood locations, to see if those timeshares come up.  Appropriately, having VACATION FUN is a full-time job, if you do it right!  

Mamianka


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## icydog (Sep 30, 2016)

bazzap said:


> I have just checked my account.
> My Rewards are shown by type
> Hotel Stay
> Bonus
> ...




Ok, very off topic, but I'm intrigued that you used so many points in one travel package.  Can you please explain where you went and how long you stayed?  I'm so curious.  I know it's not my business but I'm still sooooo curious!


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## bazzap (Sep 30, 2016)

icydog said:


> Ok, very off topic, but I'm intrigued that you used so many points in one travel package.  Can you please explain where you went and how long you stayed?  I'm so curious.  I know it's not my business but I'm still sooooo curious!


Ha ha, sorry for misleading you - that certainly would have been some trip
It was 2.5+ million lifetime points, of which I now have only ~30k left having just used 270k on a 5 Night Travel Package Category 7 Hotels with maximum BA miles (Avios) plus a 35% bonus Avios offer they had on.
We haven't actually decided what we are going to do with them yet, but the bonus offer was too good to let pass.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 30, 2016)

Mamianka said:


> I did not think that ALL the Vistana time shares would have some inventory that you could get for MRPS (converted to SPG points.). I do not think ALL Marriott timeshares set aside inventory that can be obtained with MRPs (or am I wrong about THIS, too?).  So - are you saying that instead of us plowing thru all their Vistana properties to see IF we can use SPG points - that those who DO allow this, will just be the ones that pop up on the Starwood site?  Gee, that would save tons of research time!  Or, am I missing something here?  Just when we though we had this figured out- BOOM- doubt.  I will go take a look later today - and see if this makes it easier. I guess I will have to have one list of all Vistana locations- and then check the Starwood locations, to see if those timeshares come up.  Appropriately, having VACATION FUN is a full-time job, if you do it right!
> 
> Mamianka



They may not all set inventory aside. But they all could at some point in time have inventory available using points. I don't really know how to search reward inventory in SPG, but I suspect you do it online. As with MVC using MR points, I think inventory at Vistana properties is rare in SPG, but the possibility is there.


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## DeniseM (Sep 30, 2016)

If you have an SPG Acct., all you have to do is go to the SPG website and log in, and search _using Starpoints_, as you would for any hotel reservation.  

Clarification:  There are 2 separate pools of inventory:  

1)  timeshare owner's inventory (cannot be reserved with Starpoints) 

2)  inventory that belongs to SPG (for instance - timeshares that the owners converted to Starpoints)

Vistana controls what dates they issue to SPG for Starpoint redemption, so you are most likely to find off-season availability.  

They do the same thing with exchange companies - hold back high season dates, and release off-season dates for exchanges.

*BTW - This has been possible for awhile (years) - it is not a feature of the SPG/Marriott merger.


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## CORK2 (Nov 2, 2016)

Lots of posts so apologies if this is already covered . 
Could I convert my Marriott Timeshare week into MR points ...and then on into Starwood points . When i come to use these points how would anyone know which were earned with stays ., against those converted .
Thanks Garry


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## dioxide45 (Nov 2, 2016)

CORK2 said:


> Lots of posts so apologies if this is already covered .
> Could I convert my Marriott Timeshare week into MR points ...and then on into Starwood points . When i come to use these points how would anyone know which were earned with stays ., against those converted .
> Thanks Garry



Apparently they are keeping track of the source. We don't know for sure if that is true or not. Apparently it is not even possible to convert Marriott Reward points from trading your week to SPG points. So you can't even get them in to SPG to even use at a Westin or Sheraton vacation club property.


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## jancurious (Nov 2, 2016)

Not sure if this was covered previously in this thread but we called today to see if our Category 9 MR hotel certificate was able to be converted to a Starwood hotel certificate in any way.

The answer was no (for now).

Jan


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## Safti (Nov 4, 2016)

Okay, well I just spent the last 1.5 hours on the phone with VOA supervisor at MVCI. Here's the deal that they see. They have different optics while viewing our MR account. They actually do show buckets. They are listed as MVW (which are exchange points for timeshares) and MR (all other Marriott Rewards points). The changes take place as of the date of the merger and they will not be putting historical points into the various buckets. That means if you exchange your timeshare for 110K points from this day onward, they will see 110K points in your MVW account. The ONLY way that we can see them is to do a more in depth search. How do we do that search? Well, we have to go into our account, look for account activity, that will open a link to current dates or you can search up to 12 months past. Next to that button is something that says "type". Press "bonus" and all of your bonus points in the past will come up. You can see when looking at that information which of your timeshare exchanges have provided you with points. Those points will go into the MVW bucket from now on. There you go. More headaches for us. The other question that I had was specifically regarding converting MR points over  to airlines. As far as I'm concerned, those points should come out of the MVW bucket since they are the most restricted and cannot be transferred to SPG. I generally transfer online and I'm concerned that the MR points may be taken from whichever bucket they feel like taking it from. So I asked, does this mean that I can no longer transfer points online since I will never be certain that the points were taken from the right bucket. No, she says that somehow MR will know to take it from the most restricted account first. I'm not so certain of this and think that you now have to contact MR directly and give instructions as to which bucket you want to take the points from. It's a new crazy system. . Very annoying and I have little faith in MR that they will do this job correctly.


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## vistana101 (Nov 14, 2016)

Safti said:


> Okay, well I just spent the last 1.5 hours on the phone with VOA supervisor at MVCI. Here's the deal that they see. They have different optics while viewing our MR account. They actually do show buckets. They are listed as MVW (which are exchange points for timeshares) and MR (all other Marriott Rewards points). The changes take place as of the date of the merger and they will not be putting historical points into the various buckets. That means if you exchange your timeshare for 110K points from this day onward, they will see 110K points in your MVW account. The ONLY way that we can see them is to do a more in depth search. How do we do that search? Well, we have to go into our account, look for account activity, that will open a link to current dates or you can search up to 12 months past. Next to that button is something that says "type". Press "bonus" and all of your bonus points in the past will come up. You can see when looking at that information which of your timeshare exchanges have provided you with points. Those points will go into the MVW bucket from now on. There you go. More headaches for us. The other question that I had was specifically regarding converting MR points over  to airlines. As far as I'm concerned, those points should come out of the MVW bucket since they are the most restricted and cannot be transferred to SPG. I generally transfer online and I'm concerned that the MR points may be taken from whichever bucket they feel like taking it from. So I asked, does this mean that I can no longer transfer points online since I will never be certain that the points were taken from the right bucket. No, she says that somehow MR will know to take it from the most restricted account first. I'm not so certain of this and think that you now have to contact MR directly and give instructions as to which bucket you want to take the points from. It's a new crazy system. . Very annoying and I have little faith in MR that they will do this job correctly.



So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?



The merger of the hotel companies is complete. Apparently the restriction already now exists preventing moving SPG or MR pionts received from trading a timeshare week between the two programs. Weeks previously traded for points are probably a different story.


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## Safti (Nov 14, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?



Weeks previously traded for points have not been flagged in our MR accounts so those points (because they are historical) can be used for whatever purposes you like. From the date of the actual merger, you will no longer be allowed to move points from timeshare trades over to SPG.


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## Quilter (Dec 31, 2016)

Safti said:


> Weeks previously traded for points have not been flagged in our MR accounts so those points (because they are historical) can be used for whatever purposes you like. From the date of the actual merger, you will no longer be allowed to move points from timeshare trades over to SPG.



I quit converting my weeks to MR points once the mf + conversion fee became more than the cost of buying the MR points directly from MR.  My lowest m/f is for Canyon Villas @ $1314.  For 100,000 MR points it would cost me $1448 by turning in my week.  Buying directly from MR 100k points would be $1,250.

So after this merger it's still a better deal for me to buy points directly. 

What resorts were still a good deal for turning weeks into MR points?


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## bazzap (Dec 31, 2016)

Quilter said:


> I quit converting my weeks to MR points once the mf + conversion fee became more than the cost of buying the MR points directly from MR.  My lowest m/f is for Canyon Villas @ $1314.  For 100,000 MR points it would cost me $1448 by turning in my week.  Buying directly from MR 100k points would be $1,250.
> 
> So after this merger it's still a better deal for me to buy points directly.
> 
> What resorts were still a good deal for turning weeks into MR points?


I have never actually done those calculations, your results are very illuminating.
I also quit converting my weeks to MR points many years ago after continuing devaluation.
The only one of our 5 resorts which might just be worthwhile converting would be Phuket Beach Club, where the MFs are still under $1000 and we could get (as I recall) 100k or 110k points.
I would still never do it though, as it is our favourite resort and we would go every year.


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