# [2012] Best and worst Wyndham Sales Experiences...



## MFT (Jun 3, 2012)

All,
I can honestly say that Bonett Creek and Grand Desert are two of the best places do deal with sales or should I say "customer service" as far as not getting the hard sale routine.  In both places, our visits were low pressure, with the sales team actually discussing what we had, and how to better use our points, without trying to sell us more.

No. Myrtle Beach Ocean View was also nice, though he could not for the life of himself understand why I didn't want to buy in order to get VIP.  I asked him if he ever bought a used car?  He said he had.  So what if you buy a used car from a "Dealer" (Wyndham) for say $15000, and in a year or so you decide you don't want it.  And you decide to sell it, and find out the car is now only worth $150, and the radio won't work for anyone else but you.  First off, why would I buy a car in the first place from a dealer (Wyndham) if I know that once I drive it off the lot, it's only worth 1/100th of the selling price.  So maybe I'll wait and pay the $150, and live with the radio (VIP) not working...  He smiled and said "I get your point".

Both resorts in Sevierville are very aggressive and frustrating to deal with.  A simple "owner's meeting" turns into a very unpleasant experience.  They come up with all kinds of "issues" with your current holdings, and when you say no, they do a quick turnaround and talk down to you.  No thanks, will never go through another meeting there, unless it's raining outside and I decide it's a good way to waste some of their time.  They are welcome to come to the room, drop off a travel mug, see if the unit is fine, but I will not go to an owners meeting there ever again.


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## ronandjoan (Jun 3, 2012)

Our very worse sales presentation was at grand desert and we said we would never go to another one anywhere.  Then DH likes to Please the parking pass girl and she promised only 45 minutes or else she would come rescue us, did not happen and after 1 hour and 15 minutes they were pressing us for a $39K purchase and I said, I can't go on now, and they said Fine, we can meet again tomorrow !    Are they crazy to think I would go through that again?  Then we had to go through the Discovery offer in order to get out and a person went to our friends who were waiting for us and said that since we were buying it would be longer to wait. NO! Direct lying to our friends!


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 3, 2012)

Just say NO to the parking pass person!! And unless they are from housekeeping or maint. no one comes into my room and I do not answer the phone(in any TS I stay in and that includes Marriott, Disney and Starwood).

My time is worth more than a $100 gift card or a travel mug. Just say NO to these people and enjoy your vacation.


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## Bourne (Jun 3, 2012)

It depends...I feel bad for the Glacier Canyon staff...due to proximity we are there about 4-5 times a year...

This year before they even start, I name my price at $100 and provide a hook that I am interested in VIP via PIC...and set the time as 9:00 in unit. Have my parking pass under a couple of min...

When they do show up, I give them 10 min to talk and show them a spreadsheet as to why resale works. On the side are programmed kids 6/3 in swimsuits waiting to hit the waterpark. It does not take more than 5 min after that...done in 15...don't think they have even cared to see the contents of the spreadsheet...

For about $400-500, I spend an hour+ over the course of the year... Hard to say no...so make hay till the sun shines...:hysterical:


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## dr_adventure (Jun 3, 2012)

I've had good and BAD at Grand Dessert - my single worst was at Grand Dessert - was lied to - FLAT OUT - and hard sell by some senior folks.  But I also bought from there and got my best deal ever.

As for the best of the best - Dan Griffith at Wyndham Lake Tahoe - I just met with him yesterday and again he impressed me.  Since Lake Tahoe is a VERY small operation it is much more about CS and not so much about sales -


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## ronparise (Jun 3, 2012)

My worst was my first (kinda like sex)  because I didnt know what I was doing. The saleswoman insulted me by asking what kind of man was I denying my wife the pleasure of these beautiful vacations.  So i bought and rescinded the next day

 Ive starting doing what Bourne does.. I give them a project to work on...I tell them I want get from where I am to Platinum as cheaply as possible. I tell them that I have a 3 bedroom red week and a 2 bedroom that I can PIC aand that I have several unconverted weeks that I would convert if they would count toward VIP, and that I would like to "trade in"  several of my converted weeks for cheaper mf, but want the new points  to count toward VIP too...I tell them I know that I will have to buy some new points, but that I want it to be as small a package as possible done as cheaply as possible. I tell them that I have a strategy in mind and a plan to execute next year, but if they can improve on it Ill buy today

I also tell them I dont want to know about the Barclays credit card or Wyndham rewards points or Endless vacations or any other way they might have for me to offset my maintenance fees.  I manage my own rental program thats working well for me. 

The guys in Las Vegas 2 months ago were great, The breakfast was good, they took up my challenge, made a presentation and accepted my no thanks before I was done eating.


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## Rent_Share (Jun 3, 2012)

dr_adventure said:


> But I also bought from there and got my best deal ever.


 

Please tell what deal  was better than resale


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## nkldavy (Jun 3, 2012)

*Anyone Ever ...*

... just walk off without the parking pass?  If so, anything ever come of not having one?

Just wondering,   Uncle Davey


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2012)

84,000 contract at Towers on the Grove with a Sands Ocean Club long term lease thrown into the purchase with a PIC conversion to 105,000 points with a fixed week conversion to 154,000 points.  343,000 thousand VIP Eligable points in one purchase.

Woarst is a tough call a number of resorts are in a neck to neck, nose to nose race for that honor.  At this point, National Harbor by a hair just beating out Williamsburg.  Shawnee Mountain did give it a good run for the money though.  The sales rep promises things that are not delivered.  Then fills in a form for that Wyndham Corporate fills said is to be filled in by the customer giving reasons for purchase.  Corporate Wyndham then sites that document as one of the reasons to default on the sales promises.  The fact that it was forged by sales staff made no difference.  "It is sales job to sell"  is Coorporate Wyndham's postion.  If you buy form this location you are subject to the "forged document" sales trick.

An interesting side point.  This weekend they invited me to a Owner's Update.  I ask for the Pa. Real Estate numbers for the two people that sold me the timeshare with Club Wyndham Access.  The sales person went to the back to ask for permission to release them.  He came back and sent us to gifting.  Got there a few minutes ahead of time, he met with us and we were evicted before the scheduled time for the meeting.  I guess the moral of that story is to ask for license numbers in States that require them and you get the quick "B".  Of course, they did not release the license numbers.


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## jebloomquist (Jun 3, 2012)

Worst- my first for 375k points. I still can't find my shirt, and my refinanced mortgage will be paid off in 2050.

Best - 1+ million VIP points for $15k.


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## jjmanthei05 (Jun 3, 2012)

My worst and best owners update was the same one which was my first at glacier canyon. I did the update after buying resale and not knowing the routine. We were told our points were worthless and could be used only at our own resort...blah blah blah. It pissed my wife off for 2 days and she still talks about that update occasionally to this day. But the best part was after the update I tried to verify his information and found TUG so it worked out in the end. since that point all my updates have been great because I don't care about what they actually say and after 5 min or so they figure it out.

Jason


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## GeorgeInNePa (Jun 3, 2012)

nkldavy said:


> ... just walk off without the parking pass?  If so, anything ever come of not having one?
> 
> Just wondering,   Uncle Davey



Ever forget to take the tag out from above the sunvisor and put it on the dash or hang it from the mirror?

Yea, me too.

Ever had anything happen to your car? Did they ever tow it?

Yea, me neither...


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 4, 2012)

GeorgeInNePa said:


> Ever forget to take the tag out from above the sunvisor and put it on the dash or hang it from the mirror?
> 
> Yea, me too.
> 
> ...



Left the parking pass in the visor at Kona, there was a note on the car the next morning to please display it when parking at the resort.


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## richjester (Jun 4, 2012)

Easy worst was National Harbor.  We were there almost three hours, saying "NO!" for over two of those hours.  We were insulted and worked over.  It was easily the worst.

Best, Williamsburg.  Gave an emphatic NO and were allowed to leave in less than 45 minutes.


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## csxjohn (Jun 4, 2012)

Twinkstarr said:


> Just say NO to the parking pass person!! And unless they are from housekeeping or maint. no one comes into my room and I do not answer the phone(in any TS I stay in and that includes Marriott, Disney and Starwood).
> 
> My time is worth more than a $100 gift card or a travel mug. Just say NO to these people and enjoy your vacation.



Please excuse my ignorance on this subject.

Is this parking pass a ploy at all Wyndham resorts?  What do they do, refuse to let you have a parking pass if you don't agree to go to a sales meeting?

I have a friend with Wyndham points and they've offered to let me use them.  I'm just wondering what to expect if I do go to one of their resorts.

I never go to the resort sales presentations even when offered a $100 gift card like I was at Williamsburg Plantation. I'm not using my vaca time to listen to lies and high pressure. I'm there to relax.

Thanks.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 4, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Please excuse my ignorance on this subject.
> 
> Is this parking pass a ploy at all Wyndham resorts?  What do they do, refuse to let you have a parking pass if you don't agree to go to a sales meeting?
> 
> ...



Varies a little by resort, but basically similar. Check in.  They send you for the parking pass.  They look your reservation up on a print-out.  The print-out is color coded with three colors or no color. They then offer a sales presentation or not based on the print out.  Most are not overly agressive if you do not accept it.  There are reports that some resorts send people to rooms, I have not experienced this.  If you arrive after hours for the parking pass people, if they want you to go to presentation, they will generally call and ask about how check in went, if there problems, etc.  Then try and get you over to the sales arm.  In my experience, problems do not generally occur at this level.  If they occur, it will usally be during the meeting.  Be carefull, some sales people will direct you to leave the premises if you do not buy a timeshare.  If this happens, take the issue directly to resort management and see if they will over rule the order.

Since you are going in as a guest, I am guessing the probability of being invited to a presentation is almost a certainty.  If you do not want to go, just say no.


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## jjmanthei05 (Jun 4, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Please excuse my ignorance on this subject.
> 
> Is this parking pass a ploy at all Wyndham resorts?  What do they do, refuse to let you have a parking pass if you don't agree to go to a sales meeting?
> 
> ...



I agree with RR. You don't ever have to say yes. Also if they continue the pressure pitch to sign up tell them you are staying on your friends points and use one of the 2 following excuses "you spouse is not along on the trip." or "we are both currently unemployed and friend doing us a favor giving us some time away." Either way it will stop right there. 

Jason


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## csxjohn (Jun 4, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Varies a little by resort, but basically similar. Check in.  They send you for the parking pass.  They look your reservation up on a print-out.  The print-out is color coded with three colors or no color. They then offer a sales presentation or not based on the print out.  Most are not overly agressive if you do not accept it.  There are reports that some resorts send people to rooms, I have not experienced this.  If you arrive after hours for the parking pass people, if they want you to go to presentation, they will generally call and ask about how check in went, if there problems, etc.  Then try and get you over to the sales arm.  In my experience, problems do not generally occur at this level.  If they occur, it will usally be during the meeting.  Be carefull, some sales people will direct you to leave the premises if you do not buy a timeshare.  If this happens, take the issue directly to resort management and see if they will over rule the order.
> 
> Since you are going in as a guest, I am guessing the probability of being invited to a presentation is almost a certainty.  If you do not want to go, just say no.





jjmanthei05 said:


> I agree with RR. You don't ever have to say yes. Also if they continue the pressure pitch to sign up tell them you are staying on your friends points and use one of the 2 following excuses "you spouse is not along on the trip." or "we are both currently unemployed and friend doing us a favor giving us some time away." Either way it will stop right there.
> 
> Jason



Thank you both, it appears I won't have to worry if I go to one of their resorts.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jun 4, 2012)

csxjohn said:


> Is this parking pass a ploy at all Wyndham resorts?  What do they do, refuse to let you have a parking pass if you don't agree to go to a sales meeting?


No, they shouldn't withhold the parking pass.  They will just make it a challenge to get them to take "No" for an answer on the update or meeting.

There is usually some variation on the theme at most Wyndham resorts.  If they have a pool (and most do), if parking is not used, they can use the pool wrist bands.  We had one resort use the free tickets for their shuttle to a nearby tourist attraction.  At National Harbor, where you have to pay for parking in a parking garage, they dangle free parking in front of you.

The parking pass is of dubious value.  When I have walked around one of the parking pass resorts and looked at all the cars in the parking lot... I've noted that very few of the cars actually had the card in the front window and I've never seen anyone towed.  We usually vacation in September or October (off season) and parking is not usually a problem when we go.  During peak times, it might be enforced.  If parking is free; the pass should be free too and not a hassle to obtain.  I really don't like that they do that.


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## Rent_Share (Jun 4, 2012)

WM - Las Vegas Boulevard, they checked to get the car back on the property to the Parking Structure

WM - Southshore - 4th of July - Douglas County Sherriff Closes the street leading to Regan Beach - When the lot is full, Parking Pass is needed to get to the Resort


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## Cheryl20772 (Jun 4, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> WM - Las Vegas Boulevard, they checked to get the car back on the property to the Parking Structure
> 
> WM - Southshore - 4th of July - Douglas County Sherriff Closes the street leading to Regan Beach - When the lot is full, Parking Pass is needed to get to the Resort



Ah...so the parking pass was needed to get through the gate if you left the property while staying there.  How do people get in to initially check in then?  

Does it mean no one can come visit you on the property while you are there?  I hate that.  What if you had the 4 BR suite and wanted to have a business meeting with 4 or 5 business associates in the area you are visiting in your suite one afternoon... I guess at that resort one is SOL.  We like to stay at Smoky Mountains and invite my brother and his wife (who live in Knoxville) to visit us for lunch at the resort one day during our stay.  If parking pass law is enforced, they would be towed.  Should I have to go get them a pass before they arrived?  How would they get into the resort to get the pass and visit?  

All that said, we do own at a resort in Daytona Beach where parking is really tight.  They do enforce permits - otherwise there are not enough spaces for guests.  If we have company at the beach while staying there, they have to park on the busy street and walk in.  Owners there demand the enforcement of parking permits and there's no dancing around a permit desk to get one.  Pool bands, on the other hand are another story....


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## dumbydee (Jun 5, 2012)

Worst was at Bonnet Creek.  The salesman was very rude and disrespectful when he realized I knew what I was talking about and was not believing any of his lies.  The lunch here was horrible.  

Best was at Wyndham in Panama City Beach.  The salesman was a manager and he went over what we own and said if we wanted to look at something more he would talk to us about it otherwise we were free to get our gift card and go.  The lunch here was awesome also.


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## shagnut (Jun 5, 2012)

Worst: Wyndham Ocean Blvd, M.B  Led me to believe if I gave them my week in Utah that I wouldn't have to pay that mf. Liar!!  

Easiest: Wyndham, Nashville. Explained my finances had changed and was unemployed, he understood, he lost his job working with Nascar after 18 yrs. We just talked.  

shaggy


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## shaun401 (Jun 5, 2012)

Best and worst were both at Glacier Canyon.  The worst trip was when they tried to tell me that something was wrong with my ownership (yes the script detailed on this site).  Spent/ wasted a few hours of my time.  The best was also there, the person came to my room and actually performed an update.  He was in and out in 30 minutes, no lies or games.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Jun 5, 2012)

I've only stayed once at a Wyndham resort (Bonnet Creek). The Update went real well. No real sales pitch, we more talked about what we had and where we might go with what we have. I posted it last month, but we talked to 2 people. First was "Houda" (HOO-dah). Second was a "survey" guy, who offered us 154000 points (resale probably) for under $1500.

I am OK with "updates", because our credit is terrible, and we always have the option to RESCIND.

TS


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## chapjim (Jun 5, 2012)

Worst - National Harbor.  Totally obnoxious, arrogant sales people who turn hostile when it becomes obvious you are not going to purchase anything.

Best - Very recently at Old Town Alexandria, which is about 8 miles from home.  The sales rep, Omar, was very new and knew very little about Wyndham but was a great talker of Afghan heritage.  I have experience in Pakistan so we talked about that for a while.  My wife had many Afghani students when she taught ESL for years and that sparked more conversation and we moved on to Afghan food, specifically Afghan rice.  Omar lives about three miles from us, we swapped addresses and the next week, he dropped off a 10 lb. bag of Afghan rice.  We never said a word about Wyndham, got our restaurant card, had a nice dinner that night at the Chart House down on the river.  Sweet!


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## Soccer Canada (Jun 5, 2012)

WORST - Bonnet Creek about 3 years ago, Said no over and over and over for about 2 hours until finally I got angry and told them that I wasnt buying and to send over the "discovery" sales person so I could leave.. Discover person came over and tried to sell me the Wyndham Visa or Mastercard (whatever it is), I told them Im Canadian, cant hold an American Visa, she got in a huff, literally pouted us over the Gifting Office.. 

BEST - Tied.. Recently at Waikiki Beach Walk, talked to a "Sam", he said "oh you bought resale, hows that working for you?" I responded, "Great, love the cheap investment to start and we enjoy Wyndham".. He said "Perfect, thats real good, can I get you a coffee while I go get someone to do a quick survey".. I thought here it comes, but **SHOCK**, Sam came back, escorted us to the Receptionist who gave us the $100 Amex Card and we were out of there in less then 15 minutes
TIED WITH... About 3 years ago at Grand Desert In Vegas we had someone come up to the room.. Middle aged guy walks in with StarBucks, a dozen bagels and a container of Cream Cheese, says to us, I know you bought resale and I cant come close to anything of that value, but I have to spend 15 minutes with you.. We spent a enjoyable 20 minutes talking about Golf in the area and local stuff and he left us the $100 Buffet Gift Cert for Le Village in the Paris as promised.. Real Easy..

Robb


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## Don (Jun 6, 2012)

Governor's Green several years ago:  We got a rookie salesman who was promptly replaced by a blonde b***h who claimed to be from corporate and had a slight German accent.  She proceeded to tell us how stupid we were (over and over again) for having multiple properties without being "true VIP". We took her verbal abuse for about 15 min., knowing that the records she had were not up to date, and then told her it was time to end it and we left.


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## Explorer7 (Jun 6, 2012)

Don said:


> Governor's Green several years ago:  We got a rookie salesman who was promptly replaced by a blonde b***h who claimed to be from corporate and had a slight German accent.  She proceeded to tell us how stupid we were (over and over again) for having multiple properties without being "true VIP". We took her verbal abuse for about 15 min., knowing that the records she had were not up to date, and then told her it was time to end it and we left.



Yep, she's legendary... she's the one that comes to mind for me too and I've sat through some horrible one's before both at Gov Green and National Harbor... The last time I ran into her it was hilarious because she was brought in as the "closer" after about 30 min and withing the first few seconds of her dialogue that old familiar feeling came to me and I got a revelation that she was the one that DW and I had our worst ever experience with a few of years back.  When I commented out loud, "Now I remember You" and explained all the while laughing with DW how she had been so horrible to us a couple of years back even she began to smile and asked what she did. We promptly told her how she had behaved all the while we could see the other salesmen quietly laughing. We said while still laughing that we're done and we were immediately off to gifting.


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## MFT (Jun 7, 2012)

*The Boxer in Las Vegas!*

Well, last time we were in LV, we had Matt "the boxer" do our room visit, and as in the past, he was very nice and did a quick review of our profile, and asked us if there was anything he can review with us...  When we said no, that we were fine with our current plan, he thanked us and wished us a nice time in LV, and left.  I think those that have been in the game a while know that those that own resale have "figured it out", and it's not worth their time to push for a sale.


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## Don (Jun 7, 2012)

Explorer7 said:


> Yep, she's legendary... she's the one that comes to mind for me too and I've sat through some horrible one's before both at Gov Green and National Harbor... The last time I ran into her it was hilarious because she was brought in as the "closer" after about 30 min and withing the first few seconds of her dialogue that old familiar feeling came to me and I got a revelation that she was the one that DW and I had our worst ever experience with a few of years back.  When I commented out loud, "Now I remember You" and explained all the while laughing with DW how she had been so horrible to us a couple of years back even she began to smile and asked what she did. We promptly told her how she had behaved all the while we could see the other salesmen quietly laughing. We said while still laughing that we're done and we were immediately off to gifting.


I'm glad I'm not the only victim here, but I think I would use infamous rather than legendary.


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## Explorer7 (Jun 7, 2012)

Don said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only victim here, but I think I would use infamous rather than legendary.



Yep, infamous is more on point...


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## GeorgeInNePa (Jun 12, 2012)

Twinkstarr said:


> Left the parking pass in the visor at Kona, there was a note on the car the next morning to please display it when parking at the resort.



I've never had that happen. But I am waiting for it...


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## GeorgeInNePa (Jun 12, 2012)

jjmanthei05 said:


> I agree with RR. You don't ever have to say yes. Also if they continue the pressure pitch to sign up tell them you are staying on your friends points and use one of the 2 following excuses "you spouse is not along on the trip." or "we are both currently unemployed and friend doing us a favor giving us some time away." Either way it will stop right there.
> 
> Jason



I find saying, "I am about to declare bankruptcy, I'm just here for one last nice trip before I do it", a quick way to end all attempts to sell you anything.

Most people won't drop the "BK bomb" because they don't want anyone to have a bad impression of them. Even a total stranger.


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## sds (Jul 2, 2012)

*Worst ended up a scam*

We haven't visited very many locations but Grand Desert has always been good about making sure we understood everything and accepting no on the occasions we did not buy.  The thank you gift has always been worthwhile along with a decent breakfast.  We do have two contracts based in Las Vegas.  That is we USED to...

The WORST was La Belle Maison in New Orleans on May 19 this year.  We told Aaron Martin right up front we could not afford to buy and did not want to due to recent medical bills.  He seemed fine with that but found "an issue" with our account asking why we had turned down joining the trust.  We were never offered anything called the trust, and of course he said they might be able to correct the problem.  Then we met with Norbert Landin.  The whole time we were led to believe we were doing an even trade for only a $64.70 fee... until we received a bill for over $9,000.  The 7 days had passed of course but we wrote the cancellation letter anyway stating how we were misled and coerced.  We were there for several hours, missed lunch with my sister and got nothing from it but two crappy wine glasses.  We don't even drink wine.  :annoyed: 

If anyone has some help on this I'd appreciate it.  Also tell me if I should repost somewhere as I know this is just a best/worst thread. 

Sheryl


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## rrlongwell (Jul 2, 2012)

sds said:


> We haven't visited very many locations but Grand Desert has always been good about making sure we understood everything and accepting no on the occasions we did not buy.  The thank you gift has always been worthwhile along with a decent breakfast.  We do have two contracts based in Las Vegas.  That is we USED to...
> 
> The WORST was La Belle Maison in New Orleans on May 19 this year.  We told Aaron Martin right up front we could not afford to buy and did not want to due to recent medical bills.  He seemed fine with that but found "an issue" with our account asking why we had turned down joining the trust.  We were never offered anything called the trust, and of course he said they might be able to correct the problem.  Then we met with Norbert Landin.  The whole time we were led to believe we were doing an even trade for only a $64.70 fee... until we received a bill for over $9,000.  The 7 days had passed of course but we wrote the cancellation letter anyway stating how we were misled and coerced.  We were there for several hours, missed lunch with my sister and got nothing from it but two crappy wine glasses.  We don't even drink wine.  :annoyed:
> 
> ...



From the sounds of it, you have done what you could at this point in time.  Wait and see what they say.  If they do not respond in a reasonable period of time, follow-up to see what they are doing with the problem.  Make sure you get the names of people you talk to.  If you subsequently decide to file a BBB Complaint or with Consumer Protection people, they probably would want that information.  Unfortunatly, since the seven day period was gone, it appears it is up to Wyndham.  It appears your best course of action is to enjoy your Wyndham ownership.

I am not sure which Trust was being referred to.  It almost sounds like they are taking the deeded properties back and have put you in a Trust.  Your paperwork should show what trust was involved.


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## sds (Jul 2, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> From the sounds of it, you have done what you could at this point in time.  Wait and see what they Wyndham said.  If they do not respond in a reasonable period of time, follow-up to see what they are doing with the problem.  Make sure you get the names of people you talk to.  If you subsequently decide to file a BBB Complaint or with Consumer Protection people, they probably would want that information.  Unfortunatly, since the seven day period was gone, it appears it is upto Wyndham.  It appears your best course of action is to enjoy your Wyndham ownership.



Thanks.  We are prepared to escalate even to a lawyer if necessary.  I'll keep your suggestions in mind too, probably prior to legal help.  They received the letter on June 25 according to our certified mail receipt and customer service said it could take 3 weeks or so.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 2, 2012)

sds said:


> Grand Desert has always been good about making sure we understood everything and *accepting no on the occasions we did not buy*. The thank you gift has always been worthwhile along with a decent breakfast. We do have two contracts based in Las Vegas. That is we USED to...


 

YOU SHOULD *NEVER *BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER


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## massvacationer (Jul 2, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I am not sure which Trust was being referred to.  It almost sounds like they are taking the deeded properties back and have put you in a Trust.  Your paperwork should show what trust was involved.



I think they sold  CWA to the above poster - I think that is what they meant when they said "joining the trust"


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## rrlongwell (Jul 2, 2012)

massvacationer said:


> I think they sold  CWA to the above poster - I think that is what they meant when they said "joining the trust"



I would tend to agree, but then this part is there:  "until we received a bill for over $9,000", this makes it why I do not know for sure.  Normally, a new developer purchase is cash, credit card, or loan at point of sale.  They got a bill for $9,000.  Hopefully, the poster will come back and clarify.


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## chapjim (Jul 2, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> YOU SHOULD *NEVER *BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER



That is a judgment.  Yours.  It may not apply to others.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 2, 2012)

chapjim said:


> That is a judgment *Consensus*. Yours. It may not apply to others.


 

- Find a post where all but those trying to justify their own mistake(s) don't unilaterally recommend rescinding *ANY Developer Purchase*


I am of the opinion you shouldn't engage in the game for the trinkets, the model is based on the room being full


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## e.bram (Jul 2, 2012)

Chapjim:
Oh yeah. When for instance?


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## timeos2 (Jul 2, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> YOU SHOULD *NEVER *BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER



AMEN! Couldn't have said it any better or clearer. 99%+ of the time any developer sale is a bad deal due to the high overhead & other markups. Buy resale.


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> - Find a post where all but those trying to justify their own mistake(s) don't unilaterally recommend rescinding *ANY Developer Purchase*
> 
> 
> I am of the opinion you shouldn't engage in the game for the trinkets, the model is based on the room being full



good argument and its always fun to discuss the relative merits of a developer purchase, but for the op that ship has sailed.

I know a guy that made several developer purchases, the last of which was at La Belle Maison... I dont know the details but when pressed (by a lawyer) Wyndham reversed the La Belle Maison transaction and put him back where he was, And they returned over $25000 to him.

So dont give up,  I bet you can get your $9000 back


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## csxjohn (Jul 2, 2012)

chapjim said:


> That is a judgment.  Yours.  It may not apply to others.



You could say that when someone tells you not to eat the yellow snow, he is giving you a judgement but his advice should be followed because he knows what he's talking about.

You could buy retail but it's as repulsive as eating that yellow snow.


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## am1 (Jul 2, 2012)

What is better for Wyndham when it comes to a hard sell or a soft sell?

A hard sell to people who will not buy is their way of saying do not come back.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 2, 2012)

am1 said:


> What is better for Wyndham when it comes to a hard sell or a soft sell?
> 
> A hard sell to people who will not buy is their way of saying do not come back.



From my personal experience and knoweldge, the hard sell is great for short term results but terrable for long term results.  

We, or at least I, tend to forget how relatively recently the current Wyndham Vacation Ownership has been in place.  As I understand it, Wyndham Vacation Ownership came into its present form around 2006, a few years later, Wyndham was in serious finacial trouble.  However, it appears to be doing relatively great now (I do not follow the finacial end so I do not know how much is due to better performance and how much is do to stock repurchases).

I think the re-organization of the various timeshare related activities that involved both RCI and Wyndham Vacation Resorts that were reported in the last few years are benifical to existing owners of timeshares.  Only time will tell.  I do not know how many sales people Wyndham has now vs. at its high, but my impression is there are significantly less.  During the problem times a few years ago, I saw one report attributed to a Senior Wyndham Worldwide Officer that talked of "right sizing" the timeshare business.  I hope this is what is being implemented.  I think it would be wounderful for existing timeshare owners if Wyndham Vacation Resorts were downsized to just Management Company functions and re-sale services (for Corporate Wyndhams benifit or otherwise).


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## rrlongwell (Jul 2, 2012)

I know others may not agree, however, being part of the Wyndhamland empire is not necessarily a bad thing.  Look on the bright side, you could have owned Enron Stock when it crashed.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 3, 2012)

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




timeos2 said:


> 99%+ of the time any developer sale is a bad deal due to the high overhead & other markups. Buy resale.


Correct again, sir -- specially in view of the inescapable fact that those "new" timeshare units the timeshare companies are flogging for big bux will have been previously occupied by the time any "new" owner shows up & checks expecting to vacation in that "new" timeshare unit. 

It's only pristine & new & never-stayed-in one _-- 1 --_ time.  

Once.  That's it.

After that, the timeshare unit is _used-used-used_, just like any eBay resale timeshare or TUG Bargain Giveaway _el freebo_ timeshare out there, never mind that the timeshare companies still price it like new. 

After that 1st couple or family checks into the timeshare unit, it is no longer new any way you shake it.  That is why, as a practical matter, there is no such thing as a new timeshare.  And that is why it is not only dumb but also insulting to the buyer's intelligence to charge major full-freight money for those non-new timeshares.  It's amazing  that the timeshare sellers are able to do it with straight faces. 

Buy timeshares resale (or get'm e_l freebo_).  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## sds (Jul 3, 2012)

*Answering questions*



massvacationer said:


> I think they sold  CWA to the above poster - I think that is what they meant when they said "joining the trust"


Yes, the sales people called it the trust but our contract says Club Wyndham Access.



rrlongwell said:


> Normally, a new developer purchase is cash, credit card, or loan at point of sale.  They got a bill for $9,000.


The bill was from Bill Me Later.  So yes, it is a credit line.  We've used Wyndham Rewards since it was Trip Rewards so we also signed up for the credit card.  I found out the $9434.70 is just the down payment and we also have a loan for $22,014.30.  Our maintenance  fees are being charged to the card and it appears so will the payments.  

As for purchasing from the developer:  We went to the obligatory meeting when it was Fairfield and not interested in buying until we found out about the point system.  No fixed week!  We did not know about buying resale so we bought an EOY deed.  The second one was to gain VIP status.  I learned about resale sometime after that.  The only reason we sat through the recent long meeting is we thought it was an even point trade.

I don't know if resale gives you the 13 month window but that can be valuable for peak season.  I booked a nearly full Grand Desert 13 months out for this past New Year's and had a blast.  Financially, I have to agree resale or one time rental is the way to go especially if you don't vacation at resorts all the time.  The owner perks could be nice if you use it a lot.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jul 3, 2012)

sds said:


> The bill was from Bill Me Later.  So yes, it is a credit line.  We've used Wyndham Rewards since it was Trip Rewards so we also signed up for the credit card.  I found out the $9434.70 is just the down payment and we also have a loan for $22,014.30.  Our maintenance  fees are being charged to the card and it appears so will the payments.


That is just WRONG!  What kind of rational deal has you finding out after you get home that you now have a load for over $22K?  Is there any other business that makes deals like that?  It just makes me so angry  

How did they manage to make you think that it was an even trade, but had you sign a contract for over $22K?  I don't blame you for this... I blame them because I've been in that chair before and know how it is.  Never again will I fall for their slippery crap tricks.


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## ronparise (Jul 3, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> That is just WRONG!  What kind of rational deal has you finding out after you get home that you now have a load for over $22K?  Is there any other business that makes deals like that?  It just makes me so angry
> 
> How did they manage to make you think that it was an even trade, but had you sign a contract for over $22K?  I don't blame you for this... I blame them because I've been in that chair before and know how it is.  Never again will I fall for their slippery crap tricks.



A friend of mine had already bought twice from wyhdham, when a smart salesmen suggested that he could help her reduce her interest rate. He did, but sold her more points in the process....She didnt know until the bills started rolling in what had happened....he took her two contracts in trade on a new larger contract with a new larger loan (at a reduced interest rate as promised) and got her a new rci credit card, which was charged to the max to cover her down payment...So no money changed hands at the resort (except a $100 AMEX gift card...Once she figured out what they did, she fought it, and ultimately was made whole...The took back the new points and paid off the credit card. And her loan is back where it once was


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## sds (Jul 3, 2012)

ronparise said:


> A friend of mine had already bought twice from wyhdham, when a smart salesmen suggested that he could help her reduce her interest rate. He did, but sold her more points in the process....She didnt know until the bills started rolling in what had happened....he took her two contracts in trade on a new larger contract with a new larger loan (at a reduced interest rate as promised) and got her a new rci credit card, which was charged to the max to cover her down payment...So no money changed hands at the resort (except a $100 AMEX gift card...Once she figured out what they did, she fought it, and ultimately was made whole...The took back the new points and paid off the credit card. And her loan is back where it once was



That sounds much like our story only ours was just to have one contract.   It's awkward having an EOY and an EY contract but I'll take it over the bill we got stuck with.  We don't need 500,000 points either.  They just talked about how good "the trust" is and never talked about monthly payments.  Norbert said our current equity would pay for the new one.    They took advantage of our time crunch and had us sign semi-blank papers to "expedite" the process.  Yes I realize that was sthpid but we felt just as confident as we had at Grand Desert that we understood.

Its nice to hear others got out of their contract and we stand a chance.


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## MFT (Nov 20, 2012)

*Interesting sales meeting*

I'll post the resort once we get home...  Amazingly fast and painless sales meeting.

We gave fair warning at check-in, that they may not want to schedule a meeting with us and sales, as it would be a waste of sales time.  Well, they offered a "no more than 45 minutes for a $100 Amex card", and decided "sure... why not."  

At this resort, you go to the sales office, they don't do room visits.  But we are directly across from the sales office, so not a big deal.  We had a feeling right from the get-go that this was going to be short.  He didn't have a print-out of our contracts, knew we had resales, and even mentioned "tugs" during the meeting.  In and out in less than 30 minutes...

Am wondering if maybe sales is doing some "intel" on their members, and know who are those that have sales potential, and those that are just a waste of their time.  This guy was nice, but we knew from the very beginning he was just going through the paces with us to get us out the door.


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## wwoods1 (Nov 20, 2012)

*Sales Meeting - Wyndham Bonnet Creek*

We decided to try an owners update this time, since the girls (12 yrs old) have been known to want to sleep in, we made the first appointment at 7:45.  Parking pass lady put on the reservations, 45 minutes, $125 at resort restaurants or spa, or $100 AMEX card and 1000 wyndham reward points.  I made a point of mentioning Timeshare Users Group forum and that I was holding them to the 45 minute time limit.  He was trying to convince me that with Wyndham rewards, I could convert point to cash (gift cards) to offset the travel costs associated with traveling.  I was firm and at times, he may have been a little condescending but nothing over the top.  I told him that I had looked at the numbers and the best value in points was using it for our accommodations and that we had the perfect number of points for us.  We were done with him in less than 30 minutes from sitting down.  About 10 minutes, waiting on the "closer".  He did not continue to push, just looked over the survey and asked if I wanted 189,000 "free" points to use over next 20 months.  I politely declined and he asked why I didn't want free points with no maintenance fees and just said I have exactly what I need and could not use them.  He then walked us to the gift desk and we got our American Express card and were back in our condo by 8:30.

The girls were ecstatic when we used the gift cards to get them wands at the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, with the cards and they did not have to use their own spending money. 

Thank you TUG for teaching me how to handle the sales person and stand firm that the best value in my points is using them within the system.

231K points bought resale all-in $600 (including closing fees)
1 - 2BR spring break week at Wyndham Great Smokies Lodge
1 - 2BR Thanksgiving week at Bonnet Creek


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## Free2Roam (Nov 20, 2012)

MFT said:


> Am wondering if maybe sales is doing some "intel" on their members, and know who are those that have sales potential, and those that are just a waste of their time.  This guy was nice, but we knew from the very beginning he was just going through the paces with us to get us out the door.



They are getting smarter about it.  

I bought retail about 14 yrs ago... and a few more resale contracts in recent years.  My sister bought resale within the past 2 years...never retail.  We usually travel together. They NEVER ask her to do updates...they ALWAYS ask me, but haven't gone in many, many years. Since joining TUG I've thought about going just to see how different the meeting would be if I mentioned TUG. But, when standing at the 'parking pass' desk I just can't talk myself into wasting my vacation time talking to sales folks.


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## nursie (Nov 21, 2012)

Yep , Glacier Canyon & Wyndham Tamarack. We went 1 year apart and apparently they aren't supposed to 'bother' you twice if you have already heard the speel. 
First time at Tamarack they said RCI was now owned by Wyndham, didn't we know? blah blah blah....got fudge and told him we didn't want any more timeshares.
Second time, we got a gift cert for a local restaurant. Sales guy was shocked I knew all of our TPU values, our maintenance fees, etc. and was able to get into Glacier Canyon on the exact spring break week we desired, sleeping 8 and so on. He made it sound as if it would never happen again. I have had other opportunities to trade into Glacier Canyon but we chose to go to Disney instead. I don't own Wyndham and although they have wonderful units, the timeshare sales staff is annoying and we never even got a parking pass either time. Guess I had them too flustered with my knowledge of the timeshare system that they knew they couldn't pull a fast one on me.
When I told him we got a redweek unit that trades high off ebay for $12.77 and another from an owner for $100, he about fell off his chair. Good thing I'm a nurse, I thought he was going to have a heart attack,:hysterical:


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 21, 2012)

Wyndham sales  people  are expert actors. Probably half  their training  is how to deal with resales.

No VIP benefits,  can only use at home resort, can only book 60 days out,  if  Developer purchaser wants your reservation will be canceled, will not have me as personal rep whose wish is reservations command,  never get in THIS  resort with resale,  etc.

Maybe hit his  stone heart with million volt  defibrillator!


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## MFT (Nov 25, 2012)

I will say that the Wyndham sales person  was very professional, and was very up front and told us that he knew we were not in the market to purchase.  We also stated we had told them at check-in to "not waste sales time with us", but they of course get I'm sure a commission for each person they throw at sales.  

So it was good all around.  Funny thing was he did go get our report of properties, and asked why we bought resale a 77K and 84K contract, instead of just buying a 150ish point contract.  He stated he was just curious.  I stated that when we bought them, the trasfer fees, etc... were only around $300 total, and since we got them for $1, it wasn't a huge deal prior to Wyndham changing the transfer fee up to $299.  I also stated that the majority of Wyndham contracts on E-bay are these small contracts, and while we are on the subject, asked him "why does Wyndham sell these int he first place..."  He smiled and said "let's go get your gift card".

Overall, I sort of felt bad, as we all knew this was a waste of time all around, and he was very nice.  So we had a nice dinner on Wyndham, and even picked up some junk food for the ride home and some Powerball tickets (which we never buy!) on the $100 Amex card.


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## tschwa2 (Nov 25, 2012)

Can Wyndham pull up your TS ownerships as reported through your RCI membership or just your Wyndham units?  If they are able would they only be able to pull up what you list on the RCI account paid for by your Wyndham dues or through non Wyndham RCI accounts?


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## lcml11 (Nov 25, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> Can Wyndham pull up your TS ownerships as reported through your RCI membership or just your Wyndham units?  If they are able would they only be able to pull up what you list on the RCI account paid for by your Wyndham dues or through non Wyndham RCI accounts?



In my case, they can see my Wyndham Club Plus, Wyndham Club Access and my PIC contract at the salesperson level.


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## Bourne (Dec 27, 2012)

Bourne said:


> It depends...I feel bad for the Glacier Canyon staff...due to proximity we are there about 4-5 times a year...
> 
> This year before they even start, I name my price at $100 and provide a hook that I am interested in VIP via PIC...and set the time as 9:00 in unit. Have my parking pass under a couple of min...
> 
> ...



Finally...they caught up... 

Out here in glacier canyon. Checked in and was promptly sent to the member services section. While I was working my usual angle with a newbie member service agent(know them all by now), in comes a senior manager and promptly overrides the conversation and hands me the parking pass.

Within an hour, I went back down to bait them again.. a parking pass for an imaginary friend coming in later...again the same story...the same guy shows up and gives the second pass...

I just asked him bluntly if anything was wrong. The dude politely smiles and tells me  that my account is marked for *NO Owner update at Glacier Canyon*...on digging further, he stated that I have had too many updates over the past few years with higher than normal cash incentives:rofl::hysterical:


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## MFT (Dec 28, 2012)

Busted!  I think as things progress, your experience will become more of the norm throughout the system.  Right now, there's the disconnect between the customer service reps handing out parking passes (and earning commissions for routing folks to sales), and the sales staff.  Of course, sales don't want to have any tuggers sent into them (you sort of played your hand with the spreadsheet and preaching resale...), so am not surprised if they are "flagging" the system more and more.


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## jebloomquist (Dec 30, 2012)

*Kingsgate Experience*

I now feel that I have joined the legion of owners who have had a negative experience at a Wyndham update meeting. The sales weasels (Weasels are mammals forming the genus Mustela of the Mustelidae family. They are small, active predators.) at Wyndham Kingsgate meeting at the Governors Green center were by far the most aggressive that I have encountered.

At the Kingsgate check-in we said "no" to the opportunity to have a free breakfast and an update. The food that was being offered did not fit our dietary requirements. Still they insisted that there would be only a half how meeting just to discuss how we felt about our experience at Kingsgate in exchange for a $70 AmEx card. So we decided to go to the meeting.

At the meeting check-in at Governors Green we were told that the meeting would only be 45 minutes, not 30 minutes. We were then worked over by the Three Stooges and finally left after 2 hours. At first, a lovely young lady, Curly Joe from my home state of Wisconsin (I wonder how they knew) just talked about her growing up in Wisconsin, and then excused herself because she needed to use the inhaler that she had with her. I now think that the inhaler was just a prop. She and my wife even discussed various inhalers, now I think just to throw us off.

She wasn't gone for more than a minute and "Moe", a manager jumped in. He suggested that it would be quieter at a different location, so like sheep to the slaughter, we followed. He began to talk about CWA and our need to convert points from where ever we were to CWA. He had at least 100 reasons why we should do it, of course never mentioning that we would have to buy a new CWA UDI to do it. He brought out all of the properties that we owned and wouldn't quit. I tried to explain that I had been working with Bali Hai and had cut a deal with them. Then, although I didn't realize it, I made the final stab into Moe. I said that I knew where I would be getting any additional properties, and he shot back, "Where?" I said, "ebay." With a few words of disgust, he immediately got up and left.

Curly Joe, suddenly reappeared, of course apologizing for having to step way. She thanked us and said that we needed to talk to "Larry", another of the Three Stooges, “to give our evaluation of the morning's experience.” Larry began by telling us about his 20 years working a Marriott and Shell and how much all the sales people would lie to make a sale. He stated that he wasn't a part of that. He was a consultant to owners to make sure that each was using their points completely. He "noticed" that we had not been assigned a Wyndham consultant and would certainly be happy to be ours. He wandered in and out of various topics for at least 20 minutes, at one point congratulating me on how well I had done getting my Platinum ownership, and then he was off to a million other topics. He finally got around to discussing the thought that I could do much better by booking properties and then depositing them in Extra Holidays, where I could make much more money. I suggested that I was very happy right were I was. Further, I stated that I knew that I would receive the 60% of the rental fee only if the deposited property was rented to a guest by Wyndham and receive nothing if the property was not rented.

But, I then said that if he wanted to be my consultant, fine, I would sign that he could do that for us. Then the other shoe dropped. I needed to buy the one-time 308k CWA points offer for $2,700, plus, wasn't it such a great deal, because I would be able to book any of the CWA properties at 13 months making it easy to deposit them through Extra Holidays. I declined that, and suddenly there was no talk about his taking on the consultant role for us.

He signed the slip and said to go to the cashier. Since we had been in there for about two hours we needed use the restrooms, plus the wait at the cashier was very long. Larry walked by us several times and acted as if he had never seen us before.

The sales personnel at Williamsburg Kingsgate and Governors Green at certainly weasels.


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## MFT (Dec 30, 2012)

Were they offering CWA points, or Discover points...  Major rip off either way.

Was it worth $75 to loss 2 hours of your vacation time?  I don't mind going to them if I'm not going to be our and about the day of the request, but I avoid the meet and greet meetings with these guys if I'm at a resort where my time is limited (Florida, Las Vegas, etc...).

I'm surprised they haven't begun a technique to lock us in rooms until we sign!


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 30, 2012)

MFT said:


> ...I'm surprised they haven't begun a technique to lock us in rooms until we sign!



Cell phones have altered that tactic. Too easy for the victim to dial "911".


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 30, 2012)

I have had similiar --- leave the hangtag girls (guys) alone and you don't qualify for the update.gift.

"And there was some woman named "Lynn" who was bad mouthing our sales staff and telling people not to buy - have you run into her or know her as WE going to have her banned from staying at our resorts" as asked to me outside by the VP of sales in one region.


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## 55plus (Dec 30, 2012)

We go to the sales (survey) meetings for the $75 to $100 American Express card. One they find out we're VIP Platinum, plus have some resell points, they can't use the VIP benefits as a sales tool. Now they're using the Wyndham Club Access maintenance fees as a way for us to same money on the fees, but as I put a pencil to the paper and show them to real numbers they generally give up and bring in a manager. After 45 minutes we're $75 to $100 richer...


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 30, 2012)

It is interesting, I read  a couple posts  here and it appears Main Man has decided to reform his  sales tactics  and  improve BBB rating then  a post like yours come along documenting the  abominable tactics of yore are  still being employed.

Sales weasel does pull ones dossier before meeting with  you and gleans info  to  relate to you and  become BFF!  Where from, pets, interests, etc.

To  cover its derrière Fairfield in 2006  Instituted 30 Rules of Conduct for its  sales  staff. They explicit prohibit a  sales person from  claiming to be your Personal Representative , Consultant and getting you  special perks. Also limits  sales person to saying Wyndham  has  EH who can  help with rentals but  prohibit saying one can make money renting. They used to be posted on  www.mywyndhamlawsuit.com but web site has  disappeared.

Having slowed down, I do  check weeks  weather forecast and schedule and pick a day to match wits with sales weasels  but with  kids  would pass.

Main Man has  clearly stated they are becoming more selective   in who they tour as it is easy enough to see many people especially those with lots of resale points have no intention of buying anything.

Since  salesperson has to  sell one  something to pay his bills he does not want  "agitators"  while  body snatchers  who I  believe get a bounty per  warm body  just want   lots of bodies. Just like body snatchers in booths around town coach you on what to say!

They almost did have lock in room  routine   a few years ago. They gave one a trinket for 10 minute survey and once in unit spread papers on   dining room table, launched  sales pitch  and had to threaten  to call security to get them out of unit!


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## markb53 (Dec 30, 2012)

*Owner update at Wyndham Bali Hai, Kauai*

Went through an Owner update a few days ago at Bali Hai. It was easy. They promised me it would only take 45 minutes and it did. they offered me a $75.00 gift card. I asked for $100.00, they agreed. The manager noticed I had some resale points. She said that was a good idea. She said she had resale points too. Their big push was to convince me that spending $25,000.00 and moving all my developer purchased contracts to Bali Hai would save me a lot of money in maintenance  fees. They were correct on that point. I would save about $100 per year even though I would have 128k more points and be VIP Silver. Not a very good investment in my opinion. I only had to say "No" once and we were off to gifting.


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## lcml11 (Dec 30, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> I have had similiar --- leave the hangtag girls (guys) alone and you don't qualify for the update.gift.
> 
> "And there was some woman named "Lynn" who was bad mouthing our sales staff and telling people not to buy - have you run into her or know her as WE going to have her banned from staying at our resorts" as asked to me outside by the VP of sales in one region.



When Wyndham Sales coordinates with the mangement group to interfer with the rights and priveldges of use of Wyndham Club Plus/Access benifits just press on.


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## Irisbramble (Jan 2, 2013)

The worst with "updates" is Sedona they dont take no for an answer 

we this time got bugged so bad that we just did the update for the 100$ gift card 

we have stayed in other places like Star Island they set it up and but when we dont go they never call or bug us neither did Bonnet Creek

St Thomas never asked us neither did Ventura, CA


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## theo (Jan 2, 2013)

My own worst (...I have no "best") Wyndham sales weasel experience was at Wyndham Sea Gardens in Pompano Beach, FL in / around 2008. I never actually attended the "presentation" itself (and I never indicated for one second I that would even momentarily consider doing so), but the "concierge" was absolutely *relentless* in pursuing me to schedule and attend. 

Repeated phone calls (...until I simply unplugged the phone), knocking on the door at all hours (...until I issued a thinly veiled face to face physical threat), capped off by an unlawful entry into my unit during a 25 minute absence (...during which time my nice Citizens watch with great sentimental value mysteriously disappeared). I had (still have) no doubt whatsoever (...but also had / have no proof or physical evidence) that the "concierge" (i.e., sales weasel rep) I had forcefully driven off was directly involved in the retaliatory theft of my watch. :annoyed:


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## lcml11 (Jan 2, 2013)

theo said:


> My own worst (...I have no "best") Wyndham sales weasel experience was at Wyndham Sea Gardens in Pompano Beach, FL in / around 2008. I never actually attended the "presentation" itself (and I never indicated for a moment I that would even momentarily consider doing so), but the "concierge" was absolutely *relentless* in pursuing me to schedule and attend.
> 
> Repeated phone calls (...until I simply unplugged the phone), knocking on the door at all hours (...until I issued a thinly veiled face to face physical threat), capped of by an unlawful entry into my unit during a 25 minute absence (...during which time my nice Citizens watch with great sentimental value mysteriously disappeared). I had (still have) no doubt whatsoever (...but also had / have no proof or physical evidence) that the "concierge" (i.e., sales weasel rep) I had forcefully droven off was directly involved in the retaliatory theft of my watch. :annoyed:



Apparently some in Wyndham think that sales staff pushing the envolope is OK as a sales tactic.  I see, apparently it did not work in your case.


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## theo (Jan 2, 2013)

*Who really "won" the encounter???*



lcml11 said:


> Apparently some in Wyndham think that sales staff pushing the envolope is OK as a sales tactic.  I see, apparently it did not work in your case.



No, high pressure tactics certainly didn't / don't ever "work" on me --- but neither do I any longer possess my nice Citizens watch of great sentimental value...


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## Xcalibur (Jan 2, 2013)

ronparise said:


> A friend of mine had already bought twice from wyhdham, when a smart salesmen suggested that he could help her reduce her interest rate. He did, but sold her more points in the process....She didnt know until the bills started rolling in what had happened....he took her two contracts in trade on a new larger contract with a new larger loan (at a reduced interest rate as promised) and got her a new rci credit card, which was charged to the max to cover her down payment...So no money changed hands at the resort (except a $100 AMEX gift card...Once she figured out what they did, she fought it, and ultimately was made whole...The took back the new points and paid off the credit card. And her loan is back where it once was



that is just brutal... glad to hear it was fixed though...


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## Explorer7 (Jan 11, 2013)

Well I think I just had the worst owner update experience ever a couple of days ago at Governor’s Green.
Not because the parking pass lady lied about Wyndham having a resort in Costa Rico though she did.
Not because the sales rep told lies because I don’t think he did
Not because I bought anything because I didn’t
It was not actually the worst because it was the worst experience.
It was the worst because with all of my sophistication and experience, knowledge of the product, my ability and experience in successfully getting up and walking out and being gifted in the past, this time I allowed myself to debate for 2 hours instead of what I had nailed down to at most an hour or less.
I walked away feeling kinda wounded and bewildered that I had allowed it to happen.
The young man actually did share some valid points and in another setting I could have enjoyed a lively philosophical and technical debate or exchange with him which is probably how he was able to keep me engaged for so long. And even now two days later playing the stupid thing over in my head.

We spent the first 35 min. with DW and I helping him figure out whether the parking pass lady told us we only had to stay for 45 minutes or if she said approximately 45 minutes.  (Which is really kinda stupid since any reasonable person would expect that it could possibly not be an exact time)
And of course I told him while we went back and forth over how to help him in his “meeting tomorrow” about the expectations set by the parking pass people that we were angry that she told us Wyndham vacation club had an actual resort in Costa Rico, not an RCI resort, not a hotel but an actual Club Wyndham resort that she had looked up for herself. 
The “nice” parking pass lady lying really ticked off my wife even though I tried to help DW by reminding her of all the other lies we have turned around in the past. Somehow this time it really got to her.

At one point about 40 min. into the update the “gifted” young man had the resident VP over to help us understand that the expectations were not for us to be able to receive our gifts in 45 minutes or less but rather “approximately” 45 minutes per the paper with DW signature on it.
I point blank asked the VP a yes or no question regarding the time requirement and she followed along with his song and dance at which point I let her know that what she was doing was giving me an answer which was that they were not going to give me and answer and leave me to believe the time I am required to stay before being gifted is a subjective time based somewhere around the time I sit down with the sales rep and 45 minutes. She reiterated that the clock begins when I sit down with him with no literal end time.

Right about this time shortly after the VP left I learned that the whole exchange about the 45 minutes was initiated because unbeknownst to me DW has set a 45 min timer on her phone and had placed it on the desk in front of her. Now I am legally blind and miss a lot of the “non verbal” communication that takes place and maybe that’s why it took me another hour to get back on my feet and get to where after debating the value of CWA ARP and touching a little on Shell and a little on TUG DW let him know that he won, that he was showing us that he could keep us past our 45 min expectation and as sophisticated as we thought we were he succeeded. We all laughed at that point and finally got out of there with the $100 Amex card but somehow no directory which was promised. Me feeling wounded and bewildered and feeling like I had been in a fight, which I guess I had.
So even though I consider myself spiritually mature, friendly and outgoing I feel like the next time I go to the parking pass desk I want to tell the nice lady to shut up and just give me the dam parking pass.


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## lcml11 (Jan 11, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> Well I think I just had the worst owner update experience ever a couple of days ago at Governor’s Green.
> Not because the parking pass lady lied about Wyndham having a resort in Costa Rico though she did.
> Not because the sales rep told lies because I don’t think he did
> Not because I bought anything because I didn’t
> ...



Did they indicate the Shell resorts were going to become available to the Club Wyndham Plus/Access system?


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## Explorer7 (Jan 11, 2013)

lcml11 said:


> Did they indicate the Shell resorts were going to become available to the Club Wyndham Plus/Access system?



Didn't get that deep into it. He asked me what I thought about shell and I told him that I would have to wait and see what actually becomes available to me and cited affiliates that are presently no more than dots on the map as it speaks to availability, so I would need to see if the shell units are something I would actually get to use. That's about the time  he shut it down. I believe he would have indicated that we will have availability to book shell units or he would not have brought them up. He has certain things he has to cover and I guess he at least touched on everything he needed to. I think it actually could have been a valuable and enjoyable presentation if better customer relations skills were in place. I really do enjoy working in almost any setting with a good salesman who knows his product and knows how to relate well with people. I wish I could see more quality and respectful sales people at Wyndham.


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## lcml11 (Jan 11, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> Didn't get that deep into it. He asked me what I thought about shell and I told him that I would have to wait and see what actually becomes available to me and cited affiliates that are presently no more than dots on the map as it speaks to availability, so I would need to see if the shell units are something I would actually get to use. That's about the time  he shut it down. I believe he would have indicated that we will have availability to book shell units or he would not have brought them up. He has certain things he has to cover and I guess he at least touched on everything he needed to. I think it actually could have been a valuable and enjoyable presentation if better customer relations skills were in place. I really do enjoy working in almost any setting with a good salesman who knows his product and knows how to relate well with people. I wish I could see more quality and respectful sales people at Wyndham.



Thanks for the info.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 11, 2013)

lcml11 said:


> Thanks for the info.



My pleasure


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## pacodemountainside (Jan 11, 2013)

Hey Ira:

A couple thoughts. I  have done many sales pitches  and it has been over 10 years since I bought from Developer.

When signing up  make sure  gifts are stated in detail, no  vague welcome package. Where it says length I insist  body snatcher write in "maximum" after time  and if it says approximate cross out and we initial.  They don't care  as once you show up they get their bounty.

Pretty much stuck with  start time.  Have also done the cell phone alarm. When  sales weasel says  it may take a little longer I state if you can't explain in proscribed time too complicated  for me and you will have to give me all the documents to take back to room to study and consult with my adviser. If you really want to fog them place a  recorder on table and say I have short memory,  want to make sure I fully understand and gets in  final contract!.

Also, the Fairfield  30 Rules of Conduct of 2006 clearly state they must let you go and gift you  after proscribed time.

I like to see how fast I can rattle their cage and get booted. So far  it is  about 11 minutes.
 Successful ones  can spot agitator fast and  want to move on to warmer body as they recognize only 1-15 to 20 buys.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 11, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> Hey Ira:
> 
> When signing up  make sure  gifts are stated in detail, no  vague welcome package. Where it says length I insist  body snatcher write in "maximum" after time  and if it says approximate cross out and we initial.  They don't care  as once you show up they get their bounty.



Paco, you both fixed my issues with the body snatchers and how to get away from any annoying sales rep. DW and I are now actually looking forward to applying your advice. If they push back on changing the "approximate" to maximum the dance is over give me my parking pass. No muss no fuss, crisp and clean, I actually think it will be kinda fun. It will be nice to enjoy the check in process for a change.

Thank you sir.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jan 11, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> maybe that’s why it took me another hour to get back on my feet and get to where after debating the value of CWA ARP and touching a little on Shell and a little on TUG DW let him know that he won, that he was showing us that he could keep us past our 45 min expectation and as sophisticated as we thought we were he succeeded. We all laughed at that point and finally got out of there with the $100 Amex card but somehow no directory which was promised. Me feeling wounded and bewildered and feeling like I had been in a fight, which I guess I had.
> So even though I consider myself spiritually mature, friendly and outgoing I feel like the next time I go to the parking pass desk I want to tell the nice lady to shut up and just give me the dam parking pass.


We were in the same seat at Governor's Green the week before Christmas. Did they tell you about "Dissolution of Trust" and discontinuation of "right of first refusal"? They only mention we were able to get about Shell was that it will be treated the same as Worldmark is today. Also, they said the new Directory was not available yet; so don't know what they were promising you on that. We were teased that the new Directory will have some nice changes in it regarding things like a reduced number of points to pay for cruises. We'll see.

Thanks for taking time to write all that out. You'll get over it


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## lcml11 (Jan 11, 2013)

Cheryl20772 said:


> We were in the same seat at Governor's Green the week before Christmas. Did they tell you about "Dissolution of Trust" and discontinuation of "right of first refusal"? They only mention we were able to get about Shell was that it will be treated the same as Worldmark is today. Also, they said the new Directory was not available yet; so don't know what they were promising you on that. We were teased that the new Directory will have some nice changes in it regarding things like a reduced number of points to pay for cruises. We'll see.
> 
> Thanks for taking time to write all that out. You'll get over it



What was the diconinuation of the trust sales pitch?  Also, my condolances to Shell Members if Shell is to treated the same as WorldMark the Club.


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## MFT (Jan 12, 2013)

"let him know that he won, that he was showing us that he could keep us past our 45 min expectation and as sophisticated as we thought we were he succeeded. "

Did he?  You just burned up his sales time that he might have been able to make an actual sale...  You may have saved another soul from getting drawn in by their art of deception, who may have bought from the developer.  You in fact did someone a huge favor by keeping this salesperson at bay for more than 45 minutes... You may have stumbled on something that we all should be doing.  Chatting on for hours with sales, so they don't make actual sales.

Most experienced salespeople would want you out the door ASAP because you are a "cold door", meaning there's no way they will sell you something.  Instead this idiot wanted to prove a point, and possibly lost a potential commission because of his bad judgement.  

Trust me, you won this battle.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 12, 2013)

Cheryl20772 said:


> We were in the same seat at Governor's Green the week before Christmas. Did they tell you about "Dissolution of Trust" and discontinuation of "right of first refusal"? They only mention we were able to get about Shell was that it will be treated the same as Worldmark is today. Also, they said the new Directory was not available yet; so don't know what they were promising you on that.



No he did not get past debating the value of buying CWA for the ARP with me, It would have gone 3 hours if he got to cover his typical 90 min speal. I think they really did have the directories but we got distracted at the check out desk when DW got excited about a Kirlands coupon she saw behind the check out counter which the kind lady gave her. I guess we traded the coupon for the directory in a twisted kind of way... (Smile)



MFT said:


> "let him know that he won, that he was showing us that he could keep us past our 45 min expectation and as sophisticated as we thought we were he succeeded. "
> 
> Did he?  You just burned up his sales time that he might have been able to make an actual sale...  You may have saved another soul from getting drawn in by their art of deception, who may have bought from the developer.  You in fact did someone a huge favor by keeping this salesperson at bay for more than 45 minutes... You may have stumbled on something that we all should be doing.  Chatting on for hours with sales, so they don't make actual sales.
> 
> ...



Having good people around you is worth their weight in gold as they help you see your blind spots. Thank you for the encouraging insights that I may have otherwise overlooked.

 If DW did not hate it so much I could probably turn it around and keep him their till they would pay me to leave. Governors Green and Kingsgate were like ghost towns last week though I would love to think I tied him up I think at best I either kept him from being sent home or kept him away from Kingsgate's free arcade room.

I remember an old Seinfeld episode where he came to a receptionist' job and heckled her after she heckled him on stage, since I'm retired and really do enjoy exploring the timeshare in's and out's I kicked around the idea of following up with him and make a hobby out of him till he got sick of me but then I'd hate to think that the aprox. 45 min update would have now turned into weeks and I know that when you play with snakes their is always a chance you can get bit. So now even though I have to go to the snake pit and pick up a parking pass I have a new set of snake handling tools that help me "work" the snake  without feeling poisened by having to get rude or listen to a lot of crap. It's a long way from being welcomed with a complimentary glass of champagne like on some cruse ships but I'm now able to take some of the "bite" out of the check in process during my future Wyndham stays.

thanks again


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## MFT (Jan 12, 2013)

My advise to some relatives that were going to a timeshare as part of a promotion:  Timeshares are like drugs.  The salesman is trying to get you hooked, and pay for the rest of your life.  So just like Nancy Reagan, "Just Say No!"


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## MFT (Jan 12, 2013)

Ira,

I'm the same way, as I don't want to be rude, but if I want my parking pass and do not want to see anyone, I state so.  They will try to persuade me we with the gift cards, etc...  I just smile, say "no thank you, may I have my parking pass now?", and usually they just hand it over.

To me, if I'm on vacation and have lots going on, I do not have time for a sales meeting, regardless of the gift.  I've spent a lot of money for the week, and them taking 1 hour out of my schedule is too long.  If I'm though on an R&R trip, and just planning to hang out at the resort, then I may get pulled in as long as the gift is sufficient.  $100 is my new minimum for 1 hour (45 minutes plus a buffer).  Last meeting was in and out in 20 minutes.  

BTW: When we do the meeting early in the week, my wife calls it "dinner on Wyndham!"


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## Explorer7 (Jan 12, 2013)

MFT said:


> Ira,
> 
> I'm the same way, as I don't want to be rude, but if I want my parking pass and do not want to see anyone, I state so.  They will try to persuade me we with the gift cards, etc...  I just smile, say "no thank you, may I have my parking pass now?", and usually they just hand it over.
> 
> ...



This was one of those R/R trips for us.  3 days in a 2br for fewer than 12K points, a very cheap get away a couple of hours from home. We have 5 Wyndham’s less than 3 hours from us, all the time in the world unlimited res transaction and housekeeping credits so we Wyndham hop a lot and I guess I’ve just lost patience with the routine hassle at the parking pass desk.
Though I’m annoyed that I have to even brace myself for the parking pass desk my plan always starts out with a polite no thank you and when they ask why not to say no reason, just no thank you, but very often they begin a long drawn out process of did you know about this new change or this new resort and we value your feedback and we need your help so we can make things better for you and before it’s all over I feel snake bit just because I had to stand there like a hostage to either break it up rudely or fake patience by standing there respectfully and politely like a trained pet waiting for them to finish so I can have my Scooby treat (the parking pass). 
So now it’s going to go like this. Plan A is a polite no thank you with no explanation since technically “No” is a complete sentence…  MFT, per your advice with the second courteous no thank you I will add “may I have my parking pass “now”? If it goes beyond that per Paco, I’ll quickly say I’ll try to make it if you scratch out “approximate” 45 min and change it to maximum 45 min. required for gifting and initial the changes. If they push back at all then I’ll say thank you but that’s the only way I would even consider another owner update meeting. Hopefully it’s over by the second no thank you but time will tell.
The script is getting better and better, I get to test drive it at Nat Harbor shortly, then Myrtle Beach soon after that.   
If it works how about a TUG printable card with the perfected script on it that you just hand to the parking pass attendant and never have to say a word other than hello and good bye…


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## MFT (Jan 12, 2013)

Ira,

How about we get some nice index cards with the script on one side, and on the back, in big black letters "THANK GOD FOR TUGS, AS I ONLY BUY RESALE NOW!"  

We can make a little production out of it when they persist by saying, "Oh wait, I have a card here... just a second, I thought it was in this pocket.. oh, here it is". 

Holding the card up in front of your face so they can see the back of the card:  "Thank you for your generous offer to have me sit with one of your sales people to review my current timeshare portfolio, changes within the Wyndham system, new resorts, and whatever other reason you can provide for me to spend time missing out on my valuable vacation.  I appreciate that you have a job to do, but right now as you can see, I'm not interested.  Please provide me the parking pass as I requested.  Trust me, you will just be wasting the time of your sales staff as well as my time".

Almost makes me want to print one up before I head to Grand Desert in Feb!

I also wonder what their commission is to herd the owners to these "information meetings".  Almost makes you want to break out a $10, and say here, not interested...  Maybe tipping them will keep them happy!


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## csxjohn (Jan 12, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> ...If it works how about a TUG printable card with the perfected script on it that you just hand to the parking pass attendant and never have to say a word other than hello and good bye…



I like it, especially with the tug logo in  big red letters with a black circle around it taking up most of the card.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 12, 2013)

MFT said:


> Ira,
> 
> How about we get some nice index cards with the script on one side, and on the back, in big black letters "THANK GOD FOR TUGS, AS I ONLY BUY RESALE NOW!"
> 
> ...





csxjohn said:


> I like it, especially with the tug logo in  big red letters with a black circle around it taking up most of the card.



Not only is the script getting better, I'm getting enough idea's to put together a pretty decent "get out of parking pass hassle free card"

I've heard they get bounties as high as $25 and as low as $10 but it was all hearsay don't really know if there's a bounty or how much, I tend to think their is a bounty and I'm sure they are measured on getting a specified percentage of the guest who check in to attend an update or off with their head.


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## pacodemountainside (Jan 12, 2013)

An acquittance of mine worked in WorldMark call center in Englewood.  She got about $10 an hour. If   for  week she signed  up 4 qualified people who showed up and toured a $25 bonus  and if  ten  $100. If  anyone bought she got  $50.  They worked off lists  people  gave  sales  weasels  listing  friends   to call.

Side note:  I vividly recall the first and last time I did this  and  friends said don't comeback to town if you give my name out.

I have also heard that parking pass  clerks  get bounties. $10 a hour clerks  don't verbally  beat one up, intimidate, harass, etc.   if they  say not interested, buzz off!


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## MFT (Jan 12, 2013)

Paco, you are correct that they do back down, but some can get pretty persistent.  I've always wanted to ask "what's your cut if you get me to say yes?"  But like most, I am always very nice, and if it just doesn't fit in my schedule, I say so.  If they keep going (which has happened) and pull out the schedule and say "but we can fit you in whenever you have a free moment?" I just smile and say nicely "my parking pass please".  That pretty much shuts down their dialog.  

My favorite comment was "But you've been a Wyndham owner a long time... we could learn something from you."  Ya, sure...


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## pacodemountainside (Jan 12, 2013)

Explorer7 said:


> Paco, you both fixed my issues with the body snatchers and how to get away from any annoying sales rep. DW and I are now actually looking forward to applying your advice. If they push back on changing the "approximate" to maximum the dance is over give me my parking pass. No muss no fuss, crisp and clean, I actually think it will be kinda fun. It will be nice to enjoy the check in process for a change.
> 
> Thank you sir.



IRA:

I gave you the short version of my Tome. If you or any one  really wants to  waste sales weasels time, rattle their cages and frost their, uh "Bs" (no 5 letter words)    big toe, try using the following smörgåsbord  as session evolves.






Make sure parking pass body snatcher or who ever, puts everything in writing and gives you a copy. Make sure you note on original  5 minute survey, 15 minute maximum update,  1 hour maximum sales pitch,  etc. that way sales person is SOL under 30 Rules Of Conduct! . Also, make sure incentives are clearly spelled out. Welcome package is a worthless trinket like a drink cup  or electric ass scratcher sans batteries!!

Best to meet in his office as you can get up and walk out after proscribed time!

If he comes to room with bulging brief case  for   5 minute survey  tell to leave in hall as not doing any sales pitch.

Be forewarned, he has pulled your dossier and knows a lot about you to become BFF! Corporate Owner Relations checked  with legal and has determined it is perfectly legal for Wyndham sales to access confidential VOI records for sales purposes.


The whole game plan is to disorganize/disorient canned sales pitch on a rainy day or when pooped and broke! Following is a smörgåsbord! Put sales person on defensive! Make justify his existence!

ME:: Do you have a business card? Makes easy if I want to get hold of you or refer an enemy!

ME:: Time flies when one is having  fun so  will set alarm on cell phone as I am sure you have other appointments.

ME:: My memory is kinda short, so I am sure you will not mind if I use this recorder to keep track of what we discuss and insure everything gets incorporated in contract!

ME:: After whipping out note pad ask name and how to spell. I take lots of notes and also when owners relations sends survey want to make sure I have it right!

Sales person(SP) asks about kids. Don't have any, parents are demised and only brother was killed in car wreck!

SP:: Any pets. Yes, you allow! I will buy right now!

SP:: Do you like to cruise? No way, get sea sick!

SP:: What is your dream vacation. Retired and been everywhere, but would like to do trip to space shuttle!

ME:: TV remote does not work, can you get fixed. If yes, reverse battery!

ME/GF:: There are a couple piss ants running around in kitchen, can you get an exterminator?

ME:: Why is it so hard to log onto web site? Always busy!

ME:: What is being done about big pot hole in parking lot?

ME ::Are you a licensed real estate broker? What are your credentials. How long have you been a time share sales person? How many sales have you done this month? Any rescissions? Do you know what you are doing? Where does your information come from? Do you have any written documents supporting your perfumed horse manure??

ME:: When I buy a car I check out on Internet, test drive, check Magazine review articles, etc. for several hours and sure you do same. So, why would I buy anything from stranger I just met an hour ago? I have never bought a TV in corner of WalMart parking lot for cash!

ME:: I own TS and know ropes so just want to see unit. If I don't like, no way in Hell I am buying! Skip the 3 hours of perfumed horse manure and give me your best price!

On way to or from unit note one where  HK  has  door is open and say I really would like to see actual unit not phony model. I don't care if bed is not made, never do at home!

ME/GF:: Kitchen sucks

ME:: No deck

ME/GF:: Bed too small 

GR:: Crappy bath room, no hair dryer or make up mirror

GF:: No free WIFI

SP:: So, what do you think? ME:: Have you read this article on wyndsham.com web site. What you are saying and what owners have experienced do not jibe!

ME:: Your pretty pictures have about convinced I should buy at nice resort shown, not here!

ME:: MF seem very low. I need to see resort financial! Any special assessments pending?

ME:: Let's see, I give you $4k down and have to pay $350 a month for ten years or $4K a year plus $800 MF to do just one week vacation and I can rent same thing on craigslist for less than $800. Do I have stupid written on my forehead?

ME:: Do you have a resale program since you stressed I can easily sell. Grab your lap top and lets check out prices!!

ME:: Since purchase is less than 400K points and worthless VIP benefits do not apply what is difference in this and $1.00 e-bay resale?

ME:: This sounds like best thing since sliced bread. Draw up the papers and I will have my adviser who controls trust fund with all my money scope out and come back tomorrow with a certified bank check!

ME:: Why does Wyndham have "F" rating with BBB!

ME:: Are there any lawsuits pending against Wyndham for illegal sales tactics?

ME:: What is difference in deeded benefits and all these other benefits that can be exterminated at Wyndham's whim and discretion? Are benefits you are promising me today guaranteed in writing unto eternity? Need to show me written documentation!!

ME:: What is VOI  Trust? How is it run? What does it cost? Why do I have to give my points?

ME:: Are you sure RCI membership is free? Says here added to MF! I don't want so just leave out!

ME:: Why are you associated with RCI since they were successfully sued for stealing members deposits and charge outrageous fees compared to II??

ME:: Directory says if I can't use say 100K points that cost $550 MF that you will only give me $210 credit and if I want to rent 100K points it will cost me $1K. What a ripoff!

ME:: Here is great article by time share expert, Bill Spearman, about Wyndham you should read! Since Wyndham legal has not challenged or sued have to assume it is true!
  Actually,  he is suing  Wyndham!


ME:: What is this with your attitudinal negativism? You keep saying no way or making excuses!

ME:: Why does Wyndham keep changing things upsetting owners and making more complicated?

Check out "survey taker"   comes over:: You are not here to do any survey , you are selling sampler package. No way in Hell will I come back here even if free.   The salesperson just said I could never get this deal  again and you are saying you  will hold for a year.  Who is lying? Just get me to gifting before I lose my sanity and temper! 

As my olde grand pappy said, don't get mad get even!

You will find experienced salesman will turn you over to gifting in a hurray so he can find a more  gullible victim  for his guile and other " warm bodies" don't overhear sordid  details!


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## Explorer7 (Jan 12, 2013)

Well Paco, I am officially armed and dangerous. I am laughing even now about some of your lines.


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## sds (Jan 17, 2013)

*Finally received a claim decision - denied*



ronparise said:


> A friend of mine had already bought twice from wyhdham, when a smart salesmen suggested that he could help her reduce her interest rate. He did, but sold her more points in the process....She didnt know until the bills started rolling in what had happened....he took her two contracts in trade on a new larger contract with a new larger loan (at a reduced interest rate as promised) and got her a new rci credit card, which was charged to the max to cover her down payment...So no money changed hands at the resort (except a $100 AMEX gift card...Once she figured out what they did, she fought it, and ultimately was made whole...The took back the new points and paid off the credit card. And her loan is back where it once was



Ron, could you please contact me and tell me what course of action this friend took?  We FINALLY just heard back from our cancellation request and they denied it, claiming our reasons were all hearsay and couldn't be proven.  Did she have to retain a lawyer?  
Thanks,
Sheryl


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## MFT (May 17, 2014)

*Smokey Mountain parking pass frustration*

So we checked into Smokey Mountain a few weeks back, and the parking pass dude just was insistent that we need to have an informational review during our stay...  I respectfully declined (while smiling very nicely), and explained we were only there for five days, the "thanks, but no thanks", and I was told that no... I really needed to meet with someone to review the new products, and again... "no... no thank you".  Well, this guy just wasn't going to take no for an answer,  and said "but we can provide you with a $50 AMEX card".  Again.... no.  "But I'm new and still on probation, and I really need you to meet".

"I'm sorry, but no means no.  I will not meet with anyone from sales, account management, no one from this location, period...".  

Let's just say, the folks at this location have not left me with a warm and fuzzy feeling in the past, and it's not worth the frustration.  

My goodness, they can be persistent!


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## loosefeet (May 17, 2014)

OHHH, so that is why we have to talk to a sales person in order to get our parking pass now!!  The Wyndham influence after buying WorldMark!!  I don't like this change--it just feels sleazy.

WM owner


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## sue1947 (May 18, 2014)

loosefeet said:


> OHHH, so that is why we have to talk to a sales person in order to get our parking pass now!!  The Wyndham influence after buying WorldMark!!  I don't like this change--it just feels sleazy.
> 
> WM owner



Parking passes at Worldmark aren't required.  I haven't used one for years and I've been to 41 different WM resorts.  You can safely walk on by the 'resort host' desk.  I've tried all sorts of reasons/strategies and finally came to the conclusion that it's a complete waste of my time to even try to get them to leave me alone.  They have your car info at check in so there really isn't any valid reason for the parking pass.  Sometimes they chase me down and I simply point out that fact and move on.   If parking is limited or you think there might be an issue, simply tell the person at check in that you will only use a parking pass if it is included with your check in material.  They usually reach down to an extra supply and give it to you.  

Sue


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## montanonpd36 (May 18, 2014)

*Sgt. Montano Newton Police*

new Wyndham owners still a little worried about what we purchased. 200,000 a year is this a good choice?


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## lcml11 (May 18, 2014)

montanonpd36 said:


> new Wyndham owners still a little worried about what we purchased. 200,000 a year is this a good choice?



Hard to tell from what you provided.  If it is at a location that you would want to go if the resort ever disassociated from the Wyndham Trust that it is lined up with (not likely to happen) than it would be alright.

You did not mention if this Worldmark by Wyndham, Wyndham Club Plus/Access, or Shell Vacation club.  If Wyndham Club Plus/Access, then 200,000 points should be more than sufficient to get you non prime weeks at most of the Club's resorts.

If one of the other two, I will defer to members of those clubs for a response.

If this is a re-sale or contracts with VIP eligible points, then watch resort specials to make the points go further for Wyndham Club Plus/Access.

If you want to exchange into a non-Wyndham resort, then this is what your points would get you through RCI (remember there is a exchange fee involved and one time I used RCI, I found out the hard way at check-in that the Resort charged a surcharge if the reservation was made through RCI).

Worldwide External Exchange Points Chart
Demand 	Studio 	1 BR 	2 BR 	3 BR or More
Prime 	90,000 	126,000 	205,000 	300,000
High 	77,000 	105,000 	165,000 	232,000
Value 	52,000 	77,000 	126,000 	159,000
Quiet 	35,000 	63,000 	77,000 	112,000

P.S.  If you like Myrtle Beach in the Winter, you points will go a long long way in January and February.


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