# Thoughts on the Hyatt Vacation Club, more than a decade later...



## ScoopKona (Jun 3, 2021)

Yes, I know it's now the Residence Club. But it was Vacation Club when I was selling them, so they're always going to be the HVC to me. Even now that the Pritzkers no longer own the thing.

I used some LCUP points to spend Memorial Day weekend in Carmel and that got me to thinking -- this system actually does everything it is supposed to, more than 10 years on. 13 years of using this, and I don't think I've wasted more than a couple hundred points.

Highlights over the past decade:

1) My Bronze Key West week was upgraded to Gold. Now I have 580 more points to play with every year.
2) Trading with Interval. My wife and I have been around the world in Interval resorts. We're up to 20 different countries visited. Either three studios, or a 1bd and then a studio. Only rarely do we stay in 2bd -- only if that's all they have.
3) In the few places where trading isn't feasible (Barcelona, for instance), getaways have taken care of accommodation for less than what AirBnBs typically run.
4) Napa: Without a doubt, this is where we go the most. We have stayed in those one-bedroom Riverpointe mobile homes at least a dozen times. This has become somewhat of a Christmas tradition for us.
5) San Francisco: Traded here the next most times. 
6) Hawaii: We are in the process of moving, permanently, to a farm in Hawaii. We used Interval to scout out possible locations. Now we're using Interval as a place to put our family when they visit. (Two concurrent weeks this summer.)
7) China: We wired up three adjacent units in China and brought my in-laws on a special trip.
8) Mid-week stays: More bang for the buck. This is typically how we visit Sedona (and now Carmel, which is going to become a regular thing for us because Highlands Inn is amazing.)
9) Maintenance fees: Have stayed on pace with inflation.

So there we have it. 

We'll see how this plays out over the next decade with this new "Premiere" program. I'm not particularly worried because Hyatt is buying the points using ROFR. As long as the system remains closed -- with no extra points "minted" by the club -- it should remain fair. I'll post my thoughts next decade on how it goes.


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## alameda94501 (Jun 3, 2021)

Great to hear your experience which mirrors our family's.  The legacy HRC (or HVC) has worked well and we've never lost points except when we purchased resale that included EEE points with a few weeks' remaining.

What's the new "Premiere" program, is that the Portfolio program?


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## ScoopKona (Jun 3, 2021)

That's what the sales people wanted me to come down and learn about. 

They definitely called it "Premiere." I believe the portfolio is the weeks they're adding so they can sell points instead of land in their "Premiere" system. I will never take a timeshare presentation, ever. "Don't call us. We'll call you," is my motto when it comes to salespeople.

So I read up. From the looks of it, it isn't going to break the system. So I'm not going to panic and sell my week. It will become a complete game changer as owners die and heirs sell the weeks because "I heard timeshares are scams." 

My only real concern is what will happen with the Welk properties. They're in nice places. But the one I stayed in was GINORMOUS. Their owners could swamp the system if they get parity.


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## boraxo (Jun 4, 2021)

Welk Northstar is smaller than any of the Hyatt properties so I would not extrapolate base on a single experience. Also people tend to buy where they want to stay. I have zero interest in Branson and I’m sure many Welk owners who bought sunbelt have no interest in Key West.  So I’m not worried about being shut out of trades.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 4, 2021)

boraxo said:


> Welk Northstar is smaller than any of the Hyatt properties so I would not extrapolate base on a single experience. Also people tend to buy where they want to stay. I have zero interest in Branson and I’m sure many Welk owners who bought sunbelt have no interest in Key West.  So I’m not worried about being shut out of trades.



If the entirety of Branson is Bronze/Copper and maybe Silver for 51/52 and whatever else is high-demand there, then it shouldn't hurt the system too much. 

I'm not very worried about this. The program itself is written by engineers and mathematicians. But then they turn it over to game show hosts to sell.


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## Sullco2 (Jun 9, 2021)

I too sold HVC and remain convinced it was the best-designed product in the history of timesharing. It was fair and usable with a balanced approach to the “fixed week” concept—the way timeshare was born. The greedy developers who conjured up points as a way to “reload” owners have aided in the dilution of a decent vacation product. Admittedly there were “ heat merchants” who oversold trading up and renting out for profit schemes and tainted the industry, but Hyatt invented the best version of the “legacy” product and should be commended. Those guys have largely retired but kudos to them. I love the observation that nerds engineered the program but it took game show hosts to sell it. Brilliant.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 10, 2021)

Sullco2 said:


> I love the observation that nerds engineered the program but it took game show hosts to sell it.



Thanks!

That's the inherent problem with timeshares is all the giveaways. No giveaways = lower prices = happier people. Sadly, there is a segment of our population who would stand in line for free headaches. And that's basically what a timeshare sales presentation is. The second any company uses the word "Free!" in their marketing, they have immediately set a bar on what kind of customer they are going to get. 

I've said before (a long time ago), that timeshares in general are marketed to exactly the wrong sort of customer.


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## Kal (Jun 10, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> ... timeshares in general are marketed to exactly the wrong sort of customer.


Hyatt seems to target prospective buyers who are a bit more financially secured.  For my recent presentation at Maui, Hyatt asked if my annual income exceeded a certain number (don't remember the number but it was not small).  That might be just Maui, but they are not targeting anyone walking in off the street just to get the incentive $$.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 10, 2021)

Kal said:


> Hyatt seems to target prospective buyers who are a bit more financially secured.  For my recent presentation at Maui, Hyatt asked if my annual income exceeded a certain number (don't remember the number but it was not small).  That might be just Maui, but they are not targeting anyone walking in off the street just to get the incentive $$.



Having spent time on the other end of the table, income really isn't enough. It's easy to ask if someone makes six figures. But a great many people who make six-figures also spend six-figures. And they're just as difficult and "I'd love to but I have a bad case of cancer" as the people who simply cannot afford it. And sadly, these are exactly the sort of people I saw the most when I was working there -- high-earning, but also high-spending.

I think we'd get a whole lot less "I'd love to but I have a bad case of cancer" without the OPCs and freebies. Especially mini-vacs. Those are the epitome of the idiom, "why buy the cow when the milk is free." Some people were taking a couple mini-vacs a year. And they were straight with me, "if you're going to give them to me, I'm going to take them. Timer is running. Let me know when 90 minutes is up."


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## Kal (Jun 10, 2021)

My Maui session was unique.  The rep saw me as a qualified buyer off the street who indeed had a sincere "purchasing" interest in the product.  In actuality, my interest was learning rather than purchasing.  After a brief time in the room, an assistance came in and handed the rep a few pieces of paper.  He then said "OMG, you're a Hyatt owner, and that changes everything".  I told him I never make a 5-digit purchase in few minutes.  All the conversation involved financial issues and we departed well before the required 90-min scheduled time.  He continued to call and text for 4-5 days afterward.  Thus he indeed saw me as a mark rather than a "gatherer of data".  He was a person I could respect...far different than any other Hyatt or timeshare presentation.

Based on this, I would not say Hyatt has changed for the better as the game is still the same.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 10, 2021)

Kal said:


> Thus he indeed saw me as a mark rather than a "gatherer of data".  He was a person I could respect...far different than any other Hyatt or timeshare presentation.
> 
> Based on this, I would not say Hyatt has changed for the better as the game is still the same.



Did you mean "couldn't respect?" Because that doesn't make sense otherwise. Yeah, I hated that. There are salesmen who openly display sneering contempt for the people they're selling to. And strangely, those salesmen do pretty well.

But here comes an unpopular opinion -- everyone is happy when a new resort opens in some gorgeous location. I wish Hyatt opened them faster, and on other continents. But on day one of a new resort opening, nobody is going to get any resale weeks. There are no sold weeks to resell. If we want new resorts to trade into, someone has to buy those units -- and fast. Otherwise there is no incentive for Hyatt to build more.

Yes I get it that timesharing in general enjoys the reputation of a cribhouse [redacted]. And this new points thing isn't going to do the company any favors to their reputation. I see it as a way to slice-and-dice points to get owners to reload. "Just 120 more points and that gold turns to PLATINUM. Think of what you could do! Next year -- 200 more points and we can put a diamond on that platinum ring! Think of what you could do!"

As long as the system remains closed, and people can't use their credit card miles to obtain Hyatt timeshare points, the system will remain somewhat fair. All these points are backed by ROFR purchases. If I discover that they are minting points, that's it, I'm out. I can walk away from my week and it doesn't owe me anything.

It would be better for all involved to end the game-show-host aspect of this. No more OPCs (who are worse than salesmen in my opinion. You want to feel like a piece of meat, deal with OPCs.) No more gifts. Certainly no more minivacs. Problem is that they are certain that if that happened, they'd never sell anything ever again.

So that means that there are only two kinds of people with respect to timeshares -- those who do well by it; and those who pay for the first group to do well by it.


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## Sullco2 (Jun 10, 2021)

The idea that it’s always been an impulse buy and can only be sold via OPC’s and price drops “on the day of the tour” has never changed. Yet the reloads are happening through resale companies to buyers who shop like scientists. They analyze down to the finest financial detail. Developers have to break this code. Removing the traditional marketing cost will bring the financially motivated buyer to the table. Because they’re still out there shopping they have demonstrated their emotional hot button is alive and pulsating. Private sales at huge discounts with no freebies are worth trying. I’ve seen a version of this work in a Canadian off-site campaign for a DR resort. Prospects came to offices and hotel rooms being told not to bring ID nor credit cards and could not buy at these presentations. It worked. The developers were brilliant marketers in a fax machine  era but they had too many personal weaknesses ( greed and ego) to sustain it. So a radically different marketing approach can work with the educated—or simply scared-prospect.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 10, 2021)

The people shopping like scientists ARE the market. Everyone else isn't/shouldn't be. Selling a timeshare to my uncle Ed is bad for uncle Ed (because he's never going to learn how to use it well. Ed isn't the sharpest tool in the shed). But it's also bad for the timeshare developers because Ed is going to tell everyone who will listen to him why this doesn't work. 

The fact that I could walk away from my week for nothing after a little more than 10 years, certain that I got my money's worth, means that it is possible to do this (even with no resale market at all) and everybody wins. But until some company hits upon the "Win-win or no deal" jackpot, there are sadly going to be winners, and my uncle Ed.


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## sherakay (Jun 10, 2021)

I truly feel DVC hits the mold on this. With a 50 year RTU model somehow properties go UP in value. Even with DVC taking away resale benefits. The fact that I bought SSR in 2017 for $86/pt and it can now be sold for $140/pt is pretty awesome. We went on the tour just to see what it was like and got free ice cream and fast passes afterwards. But nothing that cost the company any real money.


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## bdh (Jun 10, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> As long as the system remains closed, and people can't use their credit card miles to obtain Hyatt timeshare points, the system will remain somewhat fair. All these points are backed by ROFR purchases. If I discover that they are minting points, that's it, I'm out. I can walk away from my week and it doesn't owe me anything.



From what I've seen, Hyatt is not minting points with HPP - all HPP points are backed by HPP Trust owned inventory.  When they went to selling points in lieu of weeks in 2017, any weeks the "developer" owned at a property were deposited in the HPP Trust.  IE:  1,500,000 points at Windward, 2,000,000 points at Aspen, 2,000,000 points at Wild Oak and 2,000,000 points at Highlands Inn went into the Trust.  Then another 2,000,000 or points added with each new building at Wild Oak and Coconut.  

While inventory they owned at the other properties went into the HPP Trust, the point value of those is very minor when compared to the properties noted above.


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## timt (Jun 12, 2021)

bdh said:


> From what I've seen, Hyatt is not minting points with HPP - all HPP points are backed by HPP Trust owned inventory.  When they went to selling points in lieu of weeks in 2017, any weeks the "developer" owned at a property were deposited in the HPP Trust.  IE:  1,500,000 points at Windward, 2,000,000 points at Aspen, 2,000,000 points at Wild Oak and 2,000,000 points at Highlands Inn went into the Trust.  Then another 2,000,000 or points added with each new building at Wild Oak and Coconut.
> 
> While inventory they owned at the other properties went into the HPP Trust, the point value of those is very minor when compared to the properties noted above.


Question for  happy experienced Hyatt owners. I am looking to get started by buying a "resale Hyatt property" or perhaps two with idea of using every year.  What and where would you suggest? Any other pitfalls, tips for a newbie? Thanks.


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## Kal (Jun 12, 2021)

timt said:


> Question for  happy experienced Hyatt owners. I am looking to get started by buying a "resale Hyatt property" or perhaps two with idea of using every year.  What and where would you suggest? Any other pitfalls, tips for a newbie? Thanks.


First priority, find a resort and week that you would be willing to stay into the future.  We cannot predict the future success of using the point value to obtain your choice resort/week elsewhere.
Second priority, focus on the maximum point value for your purchase.  That gives you the best option to use the points at a different resort/week.


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## timt (Jun 12, 2021)

Kal said:


> First priority, find a resort and week that you would be willing to stay into the future.  We cannot predict the future success of using the point value to obtain your choice resort/week elsewhere.
> Second priority, focus on the maximum point value for your purchase.  That gives you the best option to use the points at a different resort/week.


Thank you for the quick reply! I think I have narrowed down the resort. How do I go about making sure point value is maximized? Does Hyatt or II have a chart?


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## Kal (Jun 12, 2021)

The point value is a function of the specific resort and week. For example, in Key West a low season week might be valued at 1400 points while a high season might be 2200 points.  To maximize the point value, purchase a high season week valued at 2200 points.  Hyatt has charts showing all those combinations.  When you are searching to make a purchase, look at the purchase price and the number of points associated with that specific property.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 13, 2021)

timt said:


> Thank you for the quick reply! I think I have narrowed down the resort. How do I go about making sure point value is maximized? Does Hyatt or II have a chart?




And also, be sure you know how everything works. I cannot stress this enough. I don't know what percentage of timeshare owners have no clue how to use what they own. But it's a shockingly large percentage. Roughly one-third of the people I met when I was doing this for a living either didn't use their timeshare at all, or underutilized it to the point that you wonder why they didn't just walk away from it.

Kal is absolutely right about "find something you'd use." But I'll qualify that with, "many people, myself included, have never actually stayed in the unit they bought for the week they bought it." With the right kind of flexibility, you can stay pretty-much anywhere.

I've been at this long enough that if Hyatt breaks the system with this new thing they're trying, I can just quitclaim it back to them with a angry letter attached and walk away. I've been getting roughly three weeks of vacation each year out of the week that I own. Not everyone is going to experience that -- especially large families. The larger the unit you need, the less extra time you can expect to wring out of your week.

But my experience has absolutely been, "It's better than owning a vacation house." We're moving to our vacation house permanently. Owning one is FAR more expensive in the short run/long run/any run than owning a Hyatt week and trading through II -- at least it has been thus far.

With II, any week at any resort in a 2bd costs a maximum 1,300 points. Any week in a 1bd costs 870 points. And any week in a studio costs 430. That's how it's been from the start. And if they monkey with that for any reason, I'll probably walk. (Interval has lower-points for low season. I don't recall ever staying in anything that wasn't considered "high demand.")

So, that means with a 1300-point Bronze week in a 2bd in Hyatt-land, you can get any 2bd at any time, anywhere -- if you can find one available.
Or one 1bd and 1 studio
Or three studios

And that's just with a Bronze week.

It gets better with a Gold week 1880 points. (100 extra points with a 1400 point Silver week does basically bupkis). There you have a 2bd and a studio, or 2 1bd, or four studio weeks.

And with a 2200 diamond week, that's a 2bd and a 1bd; or two 1bd and a studio, or FIVE studio weeks.

And that is PRECISELY how I use my week. One time I wired up three studios for the same week in China, and took my in-laws on vacation. With my piddly-little Bronze week which has since been upgraded to Gold. This year I've grabbed two one-bedroom condos near my vacation house, so family can visit and see what we're doing -- without them getting in the way of me doing it.

Next year, barring some new horror visiting our species, I'll go back to seeing the world two or three countries at a time
.


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## scsu_hockey_fan (Jun 13, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> And also, be sure you know how everything works. I cannot stress this enough. I don't know what percentage of timeshare owners have no clue how to use what they own. But it's a shockingly large percentage. Roughly one-third of the people I met when I was doing this for a living either didn't use their timeshare at all, or underutilized it to the point that you wonder why they didn't just walk away from it.
> 
> Kal is absolutely right about "find something you'd use." But I'll qualify that with, "many people, myself included, have never actually stayed in the unit they bought for the week they bought it." With the right kind of flexibility, you can stay pretty-much anywhere.
> 
> ...



With regards to your mention of the quitclaim deed, hypothetically, what if the resort says no?


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## timt (Jun 13, 2021)

ScoopLV said:


> And also, be sure you know how everything works. I cannot stress this enough. I don't know what percentage of timeshare owners have no clue how to use what they own. But it's a shockingly large percentage. Roughly one-third of the people I met when I was doing this for a living either didn't use their timeshare at all, or underutilized it to the point that you wonder why they didn't just walk away from it.
> 
> Kal is absolutely right about "find something you'd use." But I'll qualify that with, "many people, myself included, have never actually stayed in the unit they bought for the week they bought it." With the right kind of flexibility, you can stay pretty-much anywhere.
> 
> ...


Very helpful! I plan to buy in a place I would be happy to vacation at every year if need be.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 13, 2021)

scsu_hockey_fan said:


> With regards to your mention of the quitclaim deed, hypothetically, what if the resort says no?



I reply "[censored.]" That's that.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 13, 2021)

timt said:


> Very helpful! I plan to buy in a place I would be happy to vacation at every year if need be.



You don't HAVE to. It isn't a requirement. And if you have confidence in the system (And I think you should. Because it's worked very, very well for many, many years.), it is OK to put on the engineer hat and get the best bang for the buck -- points vs. price to buy vs. annual fees. San Antonio and Coconut Springs are the two winners in that regard.

But let's face it, we're not talking about "deal breaking" money if you want to own in some other location, a few super-high-dollar places aside. (If you're like me, and want to escape the heat, Carmel is particularly attractive, despite being 1 bdrm. I'd buy there tomorrow if I could. That place is precisely my cup of tea.) Maui is going to trade like a monster forever. I'll wave at you from my farm if you buy there.

If you want to mostly stay in Hyatts, get the least expensive 2200 point week you can lay your hands on, factoring the cost of the maintenance fees, and hope they don't break the system.
If you want to stay mostly in II, my previous post on the subject is literally everything you need to know. This is what I do. Hyatt resorts are more of an afterthought for me. (But wow Carmel is awesome.)

If you want such-and-such week at such-and-such place every year, just buy that, regardless of whose system it is -- assuming it's fee simple real estate and you technically own the dirt.


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## willowglener (Jun 18, 2021)

Thank you for sharing your observation. I am also very happy with my Hyatt Piñon Point EOY resale. I’ve stayed at my home resort and Maui with my unit. I own at Marriott and Vistana too (both resale) but I really like the point system which allows me to book weekdays or weekends. 

Question: since I own EOY odd, if I buy EOY even at the same or different resort, can I combine the two accounts? Or will I still need to pay the off year membership fee? Am I better off selling my EOY and upgrading to an EY? 

Daisy


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## Sapper (Jun 19, 2021)

willowglener said:


> Thank you for sharing your observation. I am also very happy with my Hyatt Piñon Point EOY resale. I’ve stayed at my home resort and Maui with my unit. I own at Marriott and Vistana too (both resale) but I really like the point system which allows me to book weekdays or weekends.
> 
> Question: since I own EOY odd, if I buy EOY even at the same or different resort, can I combine the two accounts? Or will I still need to pay the off year membership fee? Am I better off selling my EOY and upgrading to an EY?
> 
> Daisy



If you own two EOY units, you will not be able to combine them, and will need to pay the off years fee.

If you like the Hyatt system enough to have two EOY units, you would be better off having one every year unit.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 23, 2021)

I completely agree -- Biennial only makes sense for people who either want to "dip a toe in the water" or already have other units but want an "in" to the Hyatt/II resorts that are otherwise hard to obtain.

The answer is wholly dependent on whether you want to mostly use your Hyatt week in other Hyatts (get the least expensive 2200 point week you can), or if you want to trade through II (there are many strategies here, depends on what you want every year.)


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## dms1709 (Jun 23, 2021)

I am finding the issue with trading a Hyatt in Interval  when I want a Marriott is that Marriott preference.  I see more with my Marriott than my Hyatt even far out.


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## ScoopKona (Jun 23, 2021)

dms1709 said:


> I am finding the issue with trading a Hyatt in Interval  when I want a Marriott is that Marriott preference.  I see more with my Marriott than my Hyatt even far out.



I've never had any problems -- Marriott resorts pop up all the time when I'm searching. I've stayed in a few. And they're nice. But, to be fair, I don't care about the brand-name on the door -- it's all about location for me. I'd rather have the two-star in the dead-center of town than the four-star on the outskirts.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 23, 2021)

dms1709 said:


> I am finding the issue with trading a Hyatt in Interval  when I want a Marriott is that Marriott preference.  I see more with my Marriott than my Hyatt even far out.


That's because Westin also has preference with Marriott.  I however never use my Westin in interval.  Hyatt points go further


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## ScoopKona (Jun 23, 2021)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> That's because Westin also has preference with Marriott.  I however never use my Westin in interval.  *Hyatt points go further*



This.

My wife and I see the world, two and three countries at a time, trading our Beach House week through II. 

And basically we just ask ourselves -- "where would we like to go?" And then go do it. We're in the process of moving so everything is on hold this year. But next year I hope to knock Singapore and Malaysia off my list.


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