# Canadian Government issues warning re Puerto Vallarta



## kattim (May 3, 2015)

My DH just told me about a brand new warning about drug wars in Puerto Vallarta. Here's the link to the story: http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/bri...arned-about-more-violence-in-mexico-1.3059308

Anyone on the ground who can comment about this? Am hoping to travel to Nuevo Vallarta in November but DH now skittish. What's the real truth?


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## Tacoma (May 3, 2015)

I was just going to post this. Sad that another area of Mexico is being ruined by drug lords fighting over territory.  I was hoping to go back to the region sometime. You'd likely be fine if you don't venture too far afield.

Joan


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## Zib (May 4, 2015)

I have a very good friend who lives there and I am emailing her to see what's up there?  Will post when/if I get an answer from her.


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## travs2 (May 5, 2015)

*Travel Warnings to PV*

Yes, if anyone has any information to pass along here on TUG it would be great.  Such a wonderful place.....sure hope this doesn't get too out of hand to affect travel there.  Is there anyone else in PV right now?  Would love to hear from you!


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## Passepartout (May 5, 2015)

It appears that last Friday, the cartel brought down a military helicopter carrying 18 soldiers with a RPG of their own manufacture. Here is a video: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/drug-cartel-shoots-down-mexican-military-helicopter/vi-BBjcBnj That said, (with remembrance of drug cartel problems elsewhere in Mexico) my own humble opinion is that the druggies know that attacking tourists minding their own business would be their undoing. I'd go, but probably not wander into 'certain' areas at night and be prepared to flee into the relative safety of the tourist area and resorts with their attendant security.

Jim


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## Tacoma (May 5, 2015)

It was talked about on the radio again this morning. Sounded like people were being told to stay in their resorts and not even venture into the tourist areas. The radio announcer made it sound like the violence was literally within blocks of the resorts. I love Mexico and am sometimes there on my own for a few days. I always rent a car and go with a very confident attitude wherever I have been but this does not sound good. I hope they get control of this situation quickly or more good hard working Mexican people will be hurt by this. On the news again gas stations banks etc are being targeted. Saying don't do excursions. I know I would not want to be renting a car and venturing out on my own. Main roads were blocked even in PV.

Joan


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## herillc (May 5, 2015)

That is very sad.
Just booked PV for next spring break week.
It was one of the places on my bucket list...


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## easyrider (May 5, 2015)

We were in the PV area for 5 weeks this last winter. We also drove to Mazatlan from Nuevo Vallarta for 10 days. I didn't notice anything unusual or dangerous. 

We drove almost every day while we were in PV and NV. We enjoyed all of the little cities north of Nuevo Vallarta. Sayulita was always packed with tourists. Guyabitos was very busey as well. 

We saw many Canadian owned vehicles in the area. Trucks, motor homes and trailers that were tourist owned. 

We never felt unsafe even at night in PV, NV, Bucerias or Mazatlan. We were in Mazatlan for their Carnival and stayed out until 2-3 am a couple of nights. No problems. 

Bill


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## gvic (May 6, 2015)

Woweee.  I'm now 2nd guessing my plans to PVR in January 2016


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## Ken555 (May 6, 2015)

Sorry to say, but this was somewhat predictable. I've canceled all trips to Mexico in the last few years and have no intention of returning anytime soon. My posts were criticized by many of you when I expressed concern about traveling to Mexico, and it's clear that reality is unfortunately worse than many of you want to believe. 

Given the choice, I'm going to Hawaii in place of Mexico every time for now. Mexico needs to get its house in order, and I see no reason to visit during their troubles.


Sent from my iPad


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## x3 skier (May 6, 2015)

I was at Raintree Puerto Vallarta 21-28 April and had a great time. We did the Vallarta Eats tour of Old Town, two Vallarta Adventures trips to Las Caletas and Yelapa, walked the Malecon and the beaches, shopped the markets and no problems whatsoever except the ubiquitous beach vendors. 

Glad I didn't go to Baltimore instead of PV.

Cheers


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## Passepartout (May 6, 2015)

I think that for gringo- looking tourists, in the resort zones, there will be no difficulties. Yes, there are skirmishes between government troops and quasi militant drug cartels. Be vigilant. If you see/hear signs of violence, go the other way.

Avoid Baltimore.

Jim


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## Maple_Leaf (May 6, 2015)

*This is what we are hearing in Toronto*



Tacoma said:


> It was talked about on the radio again this morning. Sounded like people were being told to stay in their resorts and not even venture into the tourist areas. The radio announcer made it sound like the violence was literally within blocks of the resorts...  ...On the news again gas stations banks etc are being targeted. Saying don't do excursions. I know I would not want to be renting a car and venturing out on my own. Main roads were blocked even in PV.



Banks and gas stations were attacked, not just military and police facilities.  It doesn't look like tourists are being targeted, but the terrorists don't appear to be trying to minimize "collateral damage" either.


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## easyrider (May 6, 2015)

This last narco conflict was near Guadalajara. Not Puerto Vallarta, which is about a 5 hours drive from the narco conflict. 

To claim Puerto Vallarta is unsafe because of a conflict 5 hours away is about the same as claiming that one should not go to California because of gang violence in Oakland.

Bill


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## CURIOUS1 (May 7, 2015)

We stayed in PV at Vallarta Torres from April 18-25 & Canto del Sol from April 25-May 2. While eating outside in the snack area on Friday, May 1st, we saw a military helicopter fly over the ocean. That was probably the helicopter that got shot down. We were not warned by the resort to stay inside. Our Mexican family that lives in PV were visiting with us at the time and when they were leaving, we asked for a taxi so they didn't have to walk to catch the bus. There were no taxis in sight in front of the resort and that was strange but the bell boys didn't comment. My husband actually walked to the end of the block to hail a taxi. We always vacation for two weeks in PV and will continue to vacation there. We don't normally venture out since our resorts have a kitchen and we do groceries & sometimes eat on the resort.


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## garzagoer (May 8, 2015)

We arrived April 25, spent rthe first week at GM Nuevo then moved to Garza Blanca. My wife actually heard about this a few days ago and now we understand how the news can really blow things out of proportion. Yes there was trouble in the state of Jalisco between the government and the Jalisco cartel.
        The reports are correct about the shooting down of the military chopper. In Puerto Vallarta there was a bank burned down according to a local. There was a very strong military presence over the May 1st weekend, as can be expected.
        Other than the many police and very intimidating military vehicles patrolling the streets of PV ,we saw nothing out of the ordinary. We take the Misloyma bus to reach Romantic zone and yesterday to go to Bocca for breakfast on the beach, and did see 3 military personnel on the beach taking pictures. They were actually friendly and greeted us with "Good Morning" , yes in English. I almost fell off my chair:rofl:
        We are leaving Saturday for home and YES planning January's trip already


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## ValHam (May 12, 2015)

I am staying at Villa Del Palmar - this is my 3rd week at Villa Del Palmar - I do not feel safe here anymore - I heard they were shooting in Soriana a few days ago - another guest here told me she ran for her life along with everyone else shopping. for groceries - lots of police - lots of helicopters -


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## Passepartout (May 12, 2015)

Disney canceled their cruise stop May 10, Celebrity canceled their stop May 11, Royal Caribbean canceled their stop May 10. All are citing civil unrest. as a reason. Carnival is going forward with their stops in PV, but are canceling some shore excursions.


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## kpeiper (May 13, 2015)

We are going at the end of June.  Hopefully will all be quiet .  Staying at Grand Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta but want to go into PV without concern.  Keep the updates coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zib (May 13, 2015)

I just got an email response from my friend in Puerto Vallarta today.  She said there definitely WAS trouble on May 1st between the Govt. and the drug cartels.  She works for the Govt in P.V.  But because she doesn't speak English very well and I don't speak Spanish, I couldn't understand much of what she was tying to say except that Puerto Vallarta WAS involved and it was very scary, but she said " they finally came to an "agreement"  I don't know what she meant by that, tho.  Maybe just stopped fighting?
Anyway, I'm still planning on  going on our annual trip there next Feb unless she tells me not to, at that time, but hopefully it will quiet down by then.  Does make me nervous tho.  She might visit us here in July, if she can make the plans so maybe I'll find out more.  If so, I'll post more then.  She can speak English better than she can write it, but hopefully things will quitet down by then.


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## Ken555 (May 14, 2015)

I'm amazed that some of you aren't concerned enough about visiting certain parts of Mexico to question your trip. So, I have to ask the question: what would it take for you to cancel and book a different destination?


Sent from my iPad


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## mikenk (May 14, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I'm amazed that some of you aren't concerned enough about visiting certain parts of Mexico to question your trip. So, I have to ask the question: what would it take for you to cancel and book a different destination?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



It would take a lot more than that incident. For a while, I will probably stay more in the Nuevo local area rather than venture into downtown PV - at least until we understand the ongoing situation.

We also keep things in perspective. Every day in the USA, there are crimes of opportunity happening to unsuspecting people. There are lots of bad people feeling entitled to harm others and take what others have - and that is everywhere - and certainly we have areas that are mostly gang controlled and more dangerous.

In Mexico, I believe (but have no real data) that there is much less of crimes of opportunity against tourists or others. Certainly there is a drug cartel issue that must get resolved, but tourists are not targeted. IMHO, the odds of getting involved in a specific drug incident in Mexican tourist towns is too small to let it dictate my travel choices. 

Now, if the drug cartel decides to take the terrorist route of blowing up resorts to make their points, I will stop going. But then, where would I go?

Mike


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## KarenLK (May 14, 2015)

I sent a message to a Mexican friend who lives part time in Puerto Vallarta and is active politically there. She told me that it was mostly outside of the city, although I did read in a local paper that there was an evacuation of Caracol Mall, across from major hotels and timeshares. BUT she asked me to assure everyone that NOTHING will happen in the tourist zone at all.


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## x3 skier (May 14, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I'm amazed that some of you aren't concerned enough about visiting certain parts of Mexico to question your trip. So, I have to ask the question: what would it take for you to cancel and book a different destination?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



I was in LA during the riots, DC during the demonstrations, London several times when the IRA was blowing things up and not in Baltimore or Ferguson or Boston during last years Marathon. 

Unless it's an active war zone, if I want to go, I will. S*** happens everywhere and I'm just as likely to be run over by a bus in downtown Cincinnati as shot or blown up by the Narco Cartels in Puerto Vallarta. 

Cheers


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## aliikai2 (May 14, 2015)

We are in our 4th week of a 24 week stay in Mexico. We have driven from Tucson to Mazatlan 3 times in this time due to a recurrence of a bladder stone. I feel much safer here that in many areas of Tucson, or any major city in the US.  I you feel the need to stay home, do what you feel is right, but since you are unfamiliar with Mexico, please quit posting histrionics.  

Greg



Ken555 said:


> I'm amazed that some of you aren't concerned enough about visiting certain parts of Mexico to question your trip. So, I have to ask the question: what would it take for you to cancel and book a different destination?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad


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## Ken555 (May 14, 2015)

aliikai2 said:


> We are in our 4th week of a 24 week stay in Mexico. We have driven from Tucson to Mazatlan 3 times in this time due to a recurrence of a bladder stone. I feel much safer here that in many areas of Tucson, or any major city in the US.  I you feel the need to stay home, do what you feel is right, but since you are unfamiliar with Mexico, please quit posting histrionics.
> 
> 
> 
> Greg




If you consider my rational, calm posts histrionics, what do you call governments that call for caution and consideration when traveling to Mexico? Methinks you are rationalizing the situation a bit too much due to personal need.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/histrionics


Sent from my iPad


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## easyrider (May 14, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Sorry to say, but this was somewhat predictable. I've canceled all trips to Mexico in the last few years and have no intention of returning anytime soon. My posts were criticized by many of you when I expressed concern about traveling to Mexico, and it's clear that reality is unfortunately worse than many of you want to believe.
> 
> Given the choice, I'm going to Hawaii in place of Mexico every time for now. Mexico needs to get its house in order, and I see no reason to visit during their troubles.
> 
> ...





Ken555 said:


> I'm amazed that some of you aren't concerned enough about visiting certain parts of Mexico to question your trip. So, I have to ask the question: what would it take for you to cancel and book a different destination?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad





aliikai2 said:


> We are in our 4th week of a 24 week stay in Mexico. We have driven from Tucson to Mazatlan 3 times in this time due to a recurrence of a bladder stone. I feel much safer here that in many areas of Tucson, or any major city in the US.  I you feel the need to stay home, do what you feel is right, but since you are unfamiliar with Mexico, please quit posting histrionics.
> 
> Greg





Ken555 said:


> If you consider my rational, calm posts histrionics, what do you call governments that call for caution and consideration when traveling to Mexico? Methinks you are rationalizing the situation a bit too much due to personal need.
> 
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/histrionics
> 
> ...



Jeez Ken, why don't you read your comments and then maybe you might realize that your coming off as a drama mama.  or maybe somewhat histrionic 

We head to Mexico every year including the years of the news of violence, flu and what ever. Really, its not the wild dangerous place you imagine.  


Bill


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## Ken555 (May 15, 2015)

easyrider said:


> Jeez Ken, why don't you read your comments and then maybe you might realize that your coming off as a drama mama.  or maybe somewhat histrionic
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And this is the type of criticism my posts received last year as well. Still, the Canadian government cautions travelers, a poster earlier commented that a personal friend they know in the area expressed concern (but quickly stated to still come and visit), etc. It seems my justifiable concern holds no basis with those of you who have an interest in not disrupting your travel plans, and I understand that. I sincerely hope you have you a great time in Mexico, but I won't be joining you.


Sent from my iPad


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## mikenk (May 15, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Ken555 said:
> 
> 
> > And this is the type of criticism my posts received last year as well. Still, the Canadian government cautions travelers, a poster earlier commented that a personal friend they know in the area expressed concern (but quickly stated to still come and visit), etc. It seems my justifiable concern holds no basis with those of you who have an interest in not disrupting your travel plans, and I understand that. I sincerely hope you have you a great time in Mexico, but I won't be joining you.
> ...


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## Ken555 (May 15, 2015)

mikenk said:


> Ken555 said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest, your posts are annoying in the sense that they seem a bit paranoid, with a hint of preachiness, and having too much belief in what federal agencies are spouting. We all read the same things and come to different conclusions; we use forums like this to get more information and generally don't care for opinions with no useful information.
> ...


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## topmom101 (May 15, 2015)

Actually, I see the logic of both sides of this argument.  The people that have a vested interested in Mexico; loyal visitors, TS owners, etc. will never feel endangered there and might feel that as frequent visitors they have better insight than the rest of us. I own 4 TS in Aruba and pretty much feel the same way every time the Natalee Halloway tragedy comes up for discussion.  I get defensive of "my island".

However, what Ken is saying also has merit.  If I were in the beginning stages of planning a vacation, with soooo many destinations to choose from, I'd probably skip Mexico right now.


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## CarolF (May 15, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> *I asked a simple question re what it would take to stop going to Mexico *and the only responses are posts lashing out at me for daring to post my concerns. I've been to troubled countries before and really have no interest in knowingly doing the same again, especially for a holiday when numerous other nice destinations are much safer.



That's a good question.  I guess I've known that I've become desensitised to certain situations.  In my region, I'm quite relaxed about having my taxi searched for bombs by hotel security and understand that terrorists target tourist jaunts.  However, a high threat of kidnapping by militant groups frightens me.  I'd make a dreadful captive, lousy slave and my government doesn't negotiate.  There are a number of places I've been waiting to see, but won't because of this problem.

I think Mexico, as a destination for Americans, would be like Bali for Australians.  So full of our own people (tourists and expats) taking cheap and cheerful breaks that it can't really be considered international travel.  There would be some people who are happy just hanging around tourist resorts/beaches/areas and don't need anything more - those people would feel very safe I'm sure.  I personally wouldn't travel half way across the world to keep company with a whole lot of other tourists in tourist resorts.  I haven't seen Mexico and that would be an enormous waste of time and money as far as I'm concerned.  If I was making my 20th trip, I might very well go just to sit by the pool with my book, sipping cocktails for the week - safe as houses.


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## mikenk (May 15, 2015)

topmom101 said:


> Actually, I see the logic of both sides of this argument.  The people that have a vested interested in Mexico; loyal visitors, TS owners, etc. will never feel endangered there and might feel that as frequent visitors they have better insight than the rest of us. I own 4 TS in Aruba and pretty much feel the same way every time the Natalee Halloway tragedy comes up for discussion.  I get defensive of "my island".
> 
> However, what Ken is saying also has merit.  If I were in the beginning stages of planning a vacation, with soooo many destinations to choose from, I'd probably skip Mexico right now.



For people who are making vacation decisions in areas they are not familiar with, certainly, the issue of safety should be researched. The issue of drug cartel violence should certainly be a consideration, but as also should be general crime rate, and whether tourists are targeted for things like kidnapping, robbery, and terrorism. It is also not just as simple as which country; it is also where in each country and your experience with the culture.

However, when you are talking with people, as most on this forum, who have great familiarity with the Mexican tourist towns, it is a little different. I, for one, don't really appreciate folks who don't know what I know, challenging that they are amazed that I would still be going to Mexico. I just find it a bit condescending.

Mike


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## KarenLK (May 15, 2015)

As I stated earlier, my Mexican friend insists that the tourist and hotel areas are "immune" from all of theis. BUT they did evacuate the Caracol Mall. so who knows?


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## mikenk (May 15, 2015)

KarenLK said:


> As I stated earlier, my Mexican friend insists that the tourist and hotel areas are "immune" from all of theis. BUT they did evacuate the Caracol Mall. so who knows?



Has there been any new incidents that anyone knows of? With the announcement of the Cirque du Soleil theme park, the last thing the Mexican government wants is any escalating issues in the PVR area.


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## travs2 (May 15, 2015)

I have always felt safe in Nuevo Vallarta and Puerto Vallarta.  I agree with others above.....there are crimes of opportunity happening in many Canadian and American cities.  Unless, we hear of more specifics this will not deter us from vacationing in our much loved PV and Nuevo Vallarta.  The friendliest and nicest people you would ever want to meet.


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## DeniseM (May 15, 2015)

Since your moderator is unavailable right now, I'm going to post a warning:  

Folks - please don't make this personal - please stick to debating the ISSUE at hand, instead of insulting other posters, or the thread will be closed.

THANK YOU!


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## MuranoJo (May 16, 2015)

So we're going to Paris this fall--perhaps we should cancel that as well?

Instead of media mania, it's always more helpful to read posts from those with direct experience.


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## mikenk (May 16, 2015)

MuranoJo said:


> So we're going to Paris this fall--perhaps we should cancel that as well?
> 
> Instead of media mania, it's always more helpful to read posts from those with direct experience.



We're taking a Christmas river cruise in Germany in December; I am actually more concerned about safety on that trip than upcoming trip to PV - but think we will still risk it.

Mike


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## Zib (May 16, 2015)

I don't think the "tourist areas" are "immune" to all of this but I am still planning our annual trip to P.V. and Nuevo next Feb.  I don't think Ken would be comfortable coming to my area of the U.S. if he saw the news reports of all the gang violence that happens in our small city every week.  It's everywhere, I think, we just have to use common sense and try to stay out of the way.


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## taffy19 (May 16, 2015)

Here is an update I just read.

Here is the source in Spanish.


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## MuranoJo (May 17, 2015)

mikenk said:


> We're taking a Christmas river cruise in Germany in December; I am actually more concerned about safety on that trip than upcoming trip to PV - but think we will still risk it.
> 
> Mike



My post was tongue in cheek so to say, but we are still planning on the trip to Paris and also a river cruise.  You are right--that trip could be a bit more risky.  But, just like PV, the locals have a lot at stake to protect tourists (one would hope).


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## mikenk (May 18, 2015)

Things like the biker gangs shootout with each other and police are largely taken in stride in the USA.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-150-detained-biker-gang-gunfight-waco-texas/story?id=31117791

If this would have happened in Puerto Vallarta, can you imagine the condemnation of the Mexican government, the warnings about travel anywhere in Mexico, and the paranoia of people that have never set foot in Mexico?

Mike


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## Ken555 (May 18, 2015)

mikenk said:


> If this would have happened in Puerto Vallarta, can you imagine the condemnation of the Mexican government, the warnings about travel anywhere in Mexico, and the paranoia of people that have never set foot in Mexico?




There seems to be an opinion on this forum that cautions of traveling to Mexico should be ignored for a variety of reasons including, but not limited, to:

1. Some of us have no, or limited, on the ground experience and that such experience makes one an expert at knowing when and where to travel. [FWIW, I've been to Mexico on more than one occasion.]

2. Incidents of violence in the U.S. rationalizes travel abroad as safe in comparison since, after all, violence happens in many cities (and not just in Mexico).

3. Government travel warnings should be ignored.

4. Anyone questioning travel abroad is considered paranoid.

Well. There's a lot I could say to these spurious opinions, but forums are intended to permit all to write their thoughts. Some of you think I'm paranoid, wouldn't be comfortable in certain US cities, and my opinion should therefore be ignored as extremist. By all means do so. I'm sure there are some of you who are able to read my posts and understand the truth of what I've written. Keep in mind that, unlike others, I have:

1. No financial interest in Mexico.

2. No timeshares in Mexico.

3. No family and friends who live in Mexico. (I do know people who own homes in Mexico, but they don't live there year round, and even they are generally concerned about the violence and corruption, but travel...oftentimes with bodyguards if in Mexico City, though that's another story).

As with other threads on TUG, I would welcome facts. Did the Canadian government get this warning wrong? Lack of info? Perhaps they jumped too fast? Instead of criticizing me personally either directly or by innuendo (as seems to be the only response many of you are able to do) how about discussing this issue politely and civilly? I'm open to new ideas, are you?


Sent from my iPad


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## PigsDad (May 18, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> As with other threads on TUG, I would welcome facts. *Did the Canadian government get this warning wrong?* Lack of info? Perhaps they jumped too fast? Instead of criticizing me personally either directly or by innuendo (as seems to be the only response many of you are able to do) how about discussing this issue politely and civilly? I'm open to new ideas, are you?



I'll chime in on this.  Personally, I think most government warnings come with A LOT of political bias.  I come to this conclusion based on the crime rate FACTS and statistics.  If governments based their travel warnings on the same criteria based on those facts and statistics, do you think a travel warning would be issued by the Canadian government for travel to Texas / Waco?  I'll bet anything that will not happen, which highlights the political bias.

So did the Canadian government get the warning wrong?  I think there is merit in providing that information of violence for their citizens who travel abroad.  But I personally take government warnings with a HUGE grain of salt, and prefer to do my own risk assessment based on *facts*, not politically-charged statements.  It does frustrate me at times how some segment of the population will take whatever the government or media says as the truth without even a cursory fact check so see if what they are being told is accurate.

Kurt


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## PassionForTravel (May 18, 2015)

Does no one really see the difference between incidents like Waco and what's going on in Mexico.

1. The Waco incident was a one off. There are not motorcycle gang incidents in Waco (or Texas, or even the US) very often and note no bystanders were injured or killed. Not the case with drug violence in Mexico, tourists have been targeted (not the case in PV this time but certainly others recently).  Also lets be honest, how many Canadians are going to go to Waco vs how many go to PV.
2. The drug incidents used to be restricted to areas where no (or not many) tourists went to. Not the case anymore as shown by incidents in Acapulco, Mazatlan, Cancun,  and now PV. In the late 90's when tourists in rental cars were getting targeted in Florida, the Canadian and German governments was all over that and did have warnings.
3. Here's the big one guys, the police are not involved in the Waco incident. The police are very much involved with what went on in Jalisco (and others) and a bunch have been arrested. If you can't trust the cops or other officials as a tourist and something happens you are in big trouble. What's going on in Mexico is not similar to what's going on in the US today. But it's very similar to what was going on in the US in the 1920's. 

BTW - Just so no one thinks I'm paranoid I do have a trip planned to PV. The reason I might not go doesn't involve this incident, it's that airfares are extreme for the week I'm scheduled to go. Over $1000 for a 2 hr flight.

Ian


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## mikenk (May 18, 2015)

1. Some of us have no, or limited, on the ground experience and that such experience makes one an expert at knowing when and where to travel. [FWIW, I've been to Mexico on more than one occasion.]

Yes, I believe that people with extensive recent travel experience in any area have a much greater understanding of the real danger and media hype.

2. Incidents of violence in the U.S. rationalizes travel abroad as safe in comparison since, after all, violence happens in many cities (and not just in Mexico).

My point is everything should be kept in perspective. Any incidents in Mexico are sensationalized way over anywhere else in the world. Realistically, a warning by a bureaucratic Canadian agency, does not carry much weight with me.


3. Government travel warnings should be ignored.

No, just taken with a healthy grain of salt. Government warnings of this type are based more on media reports - than any indepth understanding.

4. Anyone questioning travel abroad is considered paranoid.

No, questioning travel anywhere is prudent. Excluding an entire country on safety concerns that is really not backed by hard data crosses the line in my opinion. Based on yesterday's gunfight, questioning travel to Waco, TX today is prudent; changing plans to travel anywhere in Texas is paranoid.

Ken, I really don't care if you or others choose to vacation only in the USA. I don't understand why you are so vocal that we who love Mexico are not terrified to go there. I research and judge every incident on its own merit and never judge without doing so.

Mike


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## mikenk (May 18, 2015)

PassionForTravel said:


> Does no one really see the difference between incidents like Waco and what's going on in Mexico.
> 
> 1. The Waco incident was a one off. There are not motorcycle gang incidents in Waco (or Texas, or even the US) very often and note no bystanders were injured or killed. Not the case with drug violence in Mexico, tourists have been targeted (not the case in PV this time but certainly others recently).  Also lets be honest, how many Canadians are going to go to Waco vs how many go to PV.
> 2. The drug incidents used to be restricted to areas where no (or not many) tourists went to. Not the case anymore as shown by incidents in Acapulco, Mazatlan, Cancun,  and now PV. In the late 90's when tourists in rental cars were getting targeted in Florida, the Canadian and German governments was all over that and did have warnings.
> ...



Your comments makes sense. The Waco incident was indeed a one off - but we are really seeing a lot of these one off incidents - Waco, Boston, Philadelphia, Colorado, schools. 

Here is an interesting question; I don't know the answer but I believe it is an important question. In Mexico, we all know the drug cartel issue and frankly the odds of getting caught up in it is miniscule. The question is does Mexico have the same number of these continuing one-off incidents outside the drug cartels? The easy answer is yes, but not reported. I'm not so sure; Is there the same level of terrorism and crimes against specific groups (e.g religious discrimination) in Mexico as here?

I am not trying to make a point but am curious as to whether anyone has seen data on this. Personally, I really never feel like I see the same level of entitlement thinking in Mexico that spawns this type of violence.

Mike


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## SmithOp (May 18, 2015)

The biker gangs are the US drug cartels, they fight over control of the meth business, and its not one off, there was a well publicized casino shoot out in the past.  In Waco the police were tipped off that a fight was brewing according to some reports. The Texas Ranger museum is in Waco, they like a good shoot out.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/17/8618899/waco-biker-gang-shooting

The Department of Justice portrays the gangs as the Mafia on motorcycles, saying they traffic in cocaine, methamphetamine, and prescription drugs: in Indianapolis in 2013, federal agents arrested 42 members of the Outlaws gang on charges that included drug trafficking, extortion, and money laundering.

A nine-year battle in Canada between rival gangs, known as the Quebec Biker Wars, left 160 people dead. In California in 2010, biker gangs fought over who would control a Starbucks in Santa Cruz, which led to gang members hitting each other with hammers in the parking lot.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


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## easyrider (May 18, 2015)

PassionForTravel said:


> Does no one really see the difference between incidents like Waco and what's going on in Mexico.
> 
> 1. The Waco incident was a one off. There are not motorcycle gang incidents in Waco (or Texas, or even the US) very often and note no bystanders were injured or killed. Not the case with drug violence in Mexico, tourists have been targeted (not the case in PV this time but certainly others recently).  Also lets be honest, how many Canadians are going to go to Waco vs how many go to PV.
> 2. The drug incidents used to be restricted to areas where no (or not many) tourists went to. Not the case anymore as shown by incidents in Acapulco, Mazatlan, Cancun,  and now PV. In the late 90's when tourists in rental cars were getting targeted in Florida, the Canadian and German governments was all over that and did have warnings.
> ...





I kind of disagree with your assessment on the cartel violence in Mexico in that the tourists that are targeted are mainly Mexican tourists and people involved with criminal activity. In the last two years there were less than 200 Americans killed in Mexico. Most of these people were involved in criminal activities. Most of these people were Mexican American.

The US State Department has issued a "world wide caution"  warning with the focus on countries with large populations of muslims where terrorists can hide.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/worldwide-caution.html



> The Department of State is updating the Worldwide Caution to provide information on the continuing threat of terrorist actions and violence against U.S. citizens and interests throughout the world. Recent terrorist attacks, whether by those affiliated with terrorist entities, copycats, or individual perpetrators, serve as a reminder that U.S. citizens need to *maintain a high level of vigilance* and take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness.




The State Department has issued a warning for certain areas of Mexico. About 90 US citizens were murdered in Mexico last year. Most of these people were Mexican Americans who were involved with gang activities. Using the 90 Americans killed out of maybe 5,000,000 tourist visitors give us the odds of .09/5000 chance of being murdered in Mexico. If you factor in the probability of tourist versus gang member being murdered the odds for an American tourist being murdered are less than almost anywhere in the USA.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html



> Millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year for study, tourism, and business, including more than 150,000 who cross the border every day. The Mexican government dedicates substantial resources to protect visitors to major tourist destinations, and there is no evidence that organized criminal groups have targeted U.S. visitors or residents based on their nationality. Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico generally do not see the levels of drug-related violence and crime that are reported in the border region or in areas along major trafficking routes.





> While many of those killed in organized crime-related violence have themselves been involved in criminal activity, innocent persons have also been killed. The number of U.S. citizens reported to the Department of State as murdered in Mexico was 81 in 2013 and 100 in 2014.




Bill


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## x3 skier (May 18, 2015)

Bottom line is some think it's not reasonable to go to PV for fear of being caught up in some cartel violence, others think the risk is real but small and will go to PV (or other places where's there's a potential for violence from criminals, terrorists or just plain thugs) and it's unlikely anybody in this thread is going to change their opinion. 

Myself, I would go to PV again unless wide scale warfare breaks out in the streets. 

Cheers


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## John Cummings (May 18, 2015)

mikenk said:


> Things like the biker gangs shootout with each other and police are largely taken in stride in the USA.
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-150-detained-biker-gang-gunfight-waco-texas/story?id=31117791
> 
> If this would have happened in Puerto Vallarta, can you imagine the condemnation of the Mexican government, the warnings about travel anywhere in Mexico, and the paranoia of people that have never set foot in Mexico?
> ...



Waco Texas isn't exactly a tourist destination.


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## x3 skier (May 18, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> Waco Texas isn't exactly a tourist destination.



But...but....its the home of the Texas Rangers Museum and the Dr Pepper Museum not to mention the Home of Baylor Bears. 

Cheers


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## buceo (May 18, 2015)

kattim said:


> My DH just told me about a brand new warning about drug wars in Puerto Vallarta. Here's the link to the story: http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/bri...arned-about-more-violence-in-mexico-1.3059308
> 
> Anyone on the ground who can comment about this? Am hoping to travel to Nuevo Vallarta in November but DH now skittish. What's the real truth?



I have almost gotten used to the news media that reports an issue and ties it to an entire country, like in the linked report's title. Combined with personal experience in "Mexico" (the Yucatan), the news reporting is pathetic. Maybe admin will move this to the sticky area.

"News" now reporting more bikers "possibly" going to TX, now they better release the US travel advisory, to include Hawaii and Alaska of course.


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## rpennisi (May 18, 2015)

mikenk said:


> We're taking a Christmas river cruise in Germany in December; I am actually more concerned about safety on that trip than upcoming trip to PV - but think we will still risk it.
> 
> Mike


We've been on 3 European river cruises in the past 5 years.  The danger going is the same as the danger in the 21 trips we have taken to Mexico...waistline bulge from all the good food and drink.
Enjoy!
Ron


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## Ken555 (May 18, 2015)

mikenk said:


> Ken, I really don't care if you or others choose to vacation only in the USA.



I find this really amusing, considering I just spent the last five weeks abroad and spent most of today (and tomorrow) flying home. Too tired to respond to your other points, but perhaps tomorrow or the next day I'll find time to do so.


Sent from my iPad


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## easyrider (May 18, 2015)

buceo said:


> I have almost gotten used to the news media that reports an issue and ties it to an entire country, like in the linked report's title. Combined with personal experience in "Mexico" (the Yucatan), the news reporting is pathetic. Maybe admin will move this to the sticky area.
> 
> "News" now reporting more bikers "possibly" going to TX, now they better release the US travel advisory, to include Hawaii and Alaska of course.



YUP, its the Rot rally in Austin mid June. The mc's are claiming that only one biker was killed by another biker with a knife and the other eight were shot by police. Then in Aug is the Sturgis rally.  

http://www.rotrally.com/

http://www.sturgismotorcyclerally.com/

Bill


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## RBERR1 (May 19, 2015)

I think I would probably do some sort of balancing act at this point.  I would not ignore it but I would not say I would follow it blindly either.

Would I cancel my trip-probably not.
If I was staying in PV, would I be  more cautious or be less likely to leave the resort-probably.
If I was staying in NV- would I go out in NV area-yes
If I was staying in NV-would I go to downtown PV for the day-maybe depending on how calm things have been but again I would be using more caution than normal.


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## mikenk (May 19, 2015)

RBERR1 said:


> I think I would probably do some sort of balancing act at this point.  I would not ignore it but I would not say I would follow it blindly either.
> 
> Would I cancel my trip-probably not.
> If I was staying in PV, would I be  more cautious or be less likely to leave the resort-probably.
> ...



I agree totally; travel safety is always a balancing act on if, when, where and what you do. Familiarity aids decisions, but the most important is the local assessment at the time and there are always local people that can help.

In our case, at the worst, we will just stay at the resort or in NV; at the best, I will travel anywhere at any time. We'll have a great time either way.

Mike


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## Ken555 (May 19, 2015)

RBERR1 said:


> I think I would probably do some sort of balancing act at this point.  I would not ignore it but I would not say I would follow it blindly either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




But would you book a new trip to the area?


Sent from my iPad


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## Zib (May 19, 2015)

Ken,  YES for me.  I'm going to book a new trip soon to P.V. so I can get out of our crime ridden city for awhile.  But I'll assess the situation at the time and use caution when out-and-about.


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## hurnik (May 19, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> But would you book a new trip to the area?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



I would, but we'd be probably at the Sheraton Buganvilias or the Mayan in NV.

Of course, I also go to New York City and Central Park.  I just make sure to keep it in touristy areas and not go venturing out at night in areas that aren't safe and stay in large groups of people.

Many years ago in my hometown, some nut-job went and shot and killed like 8 people at a local grocery store.  Didn't stop us from grocery shopping and we didn't move.

Stuff happens, just gotta be careful.  But everyone is unique in their own comfort level.

I know people who won't go on a cruise because they're so afraid of getting Norovirus or fear of being on another "poop ship" like the Carnival cruise that went bad.

My grandmother didn't fly for 80 something years (plane crashes/etc.)  

Whatever floats your boat.  It's a free country, everything has risks, we all have to decide what our comfort level is.  I figure I'm more likely to die in a car accident in New York or get hit by the CDTA bus than I am to experience a terrorist/gang activity in Mexico (more likely in downtown Albany--ha!)


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## mikenk (May 19, 2015)

hurnik said:


> I would, but we'd be probably at the Sheraton Buganvilias or the Mayan in NV.
> 
> Of course, I also go to New York City and Central Park.  I just make sure to keep it in touristy areas and not go venturing out at night in areas that aren't safe and stay in large groups of people.
> 
> ...



Well said - and I agree. Every person has their personal safety idiosyncrasies - so be it. Flying in a helicopter through the Grand Canyon might be safe - but I won't be on it, nor will I be walking on the edges of cliffs. My guess is driving in a major city is more dangerous than any other travel activity that we have discussed.

I will be taking one of my family units to NV in July and will be booking another one for next winter.


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## buceo (May 19, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> But would you book a new trip to *the area*?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad


From the article's headline I understand "*the area*" to be Mexico since it warns PV toursits about violence in the country.
*Puerto Vallarta tourists warned about more violence in Mexico*

To answer your question, yes.


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## RBERR1 (May 20, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> But would you book a new trip to the area?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Yes based using the same approach.


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## easyrider (May 20, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> But would you book a new trip to the area?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Yup. Already did. 

For me anyway, there a few reasons I would not go to Mexico. The first reason would be my wife and my own health. Without my health I wouldn't leave the USA. 

Another consideration would be the the economic environment. If Mexico all of a sudden became a very expensive place to travel to I would only stay a couple of weeks per year. Kind of like Hawaii.

The weather would be another reason. If we knew the weather was going to be terrible we would go elsewhere.

The most important reason I would go elsewhere is if the fishing, golfing and beach activities were impaired. 

And truthfully, no, if the violence did include American tourists as targets like in some areas of the mid east, we would not head south. It hasn't so Im still good with Mexico. 

Bill


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## John Cummings (May 20, 2015)

*Whistler*

Maybe the Canadian government should issue a warning about travel to Whistler BC, a popular tourist area in Canada.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2003833/whistler-rcmp-investigate-second-stabbing-in-as-many-days/


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## x3 skier (May 20, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> Maybe the Canadian government should issue a warning about travel to Whistler BC, a popular tourist area in Canada.
> 
> http://globalnews.ca/news/2003833/whistler-rcmp-investigate-second-stabbing-in-as-many-days/



"Another 19-year-old man, from the Lower Mainland, was fatally stabbed in the Upper Village area of Whistler Saturday night. _*Investigators call the death suspicious*_, and there are several suspects in custody."

Well, Duh

Cheers


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## mikenk (May 20, 2015)

x3 skier said:


> "Another 19-year-old man, from the Lower Mainland, was fatally stabbed in the Upper Village area of Whistler Saturday night. _*Investigators call the death suspicious*_, and there are several suspects in custody."
> 
> Well, Duh
> 
> Cheers



Sounds like something Peter Sellers might have said as 'The Pink Panther'


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## John Cummings (May 20, 2015)

x3 skier said:


> "Another 19-year-old man, from the Lower Mainland, was fatally stabbed in the Upper Village area of Whistler Saturday night. _*Investigators call the death suspicious*_, and there are several suspects in custody."
> 
> Well, Duh
> 
> Cheers



Their justice system does tend to be rather lax.


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## DBS1968 (Jun 9, 2015)

*Still going to NV/PV*

Have a timeshare at Paradise Village, 2 in fact. This will be my 9th trip to NV/PV and I was just there in October '14. We walked from Pipi's to the Malecon every night (almost). Heard and saw nothing. Do not have any fear. There is a ton of crime right here in the good ole USA. They do have a cartel issue in Mexico, everybody knows that. Targeting tourists would destroy that country...period. Even the cartels know that. We will be going to NV/PV end of June and eating out a lot in PV. If it is our time, then it is. We could be killed on the plane ride, or by a car going to the airport in the USA. I think we tend to think that the USA is some super-safe place and Mexico is crazy-time. There are just as many law-abiding people there as here. We just like to get a bit crazy when crime happens there. Things we blow off here turn into big events when it's "Mexico" Just my opinion.  My golf clubs are telling me we are going...period...lol


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## nomadio (Jun 10, 2015)

^^^^^^^

what he said


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## travs2 (Jun 10, 2015)

I have a friend who lives in Nuevo/PV.  I just emailed her to ask how the " situation" is there right now.  I will report back here to let everyone know what she says.  Personally, we feel safe in PV.  We have walked the streets and side streets around town and have taken the local buses without incident.  Heck, there was just a big drug bust in a quiet town near us this past week.  Also, we feel safer in PV than in many US cities that we have visited.  Trouble finds trouble.  If you are aware of your surroundings and mind your business you will be fine.


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## Passepartout (Jun 10, 2015)

Government warnings change no one's attitudes and plans. If one has traveled to a place before and felt safe and welcome, they will go back regardless of warning. Those who have not experienced Mexico (PV/NV/Maz, etc) and only rely on news reports and hearsay will say, 'See, I told you it was unsafe', and feel totally justified.

I feel that the cartels want no trouble with tourism. They are not in the business of peddling their junk to tourists. In fact, they'd prefer to be as invisible as possible.

Go to Mexico, mind your business and don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong, and you'll have another in a series of wonderful vacations.

My usual $.02 worth.

Jim


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## davidvel (Jun 10, 2015)

DBS1968 said:


> . . .Do not have any fear. There is a ton of crime right here in the good ole USA. They do have a cartel issue in Mexico, everybody knows that. . . . I think we tend to think that the USA is some super-safe place and Mexico is crazy-time. There are just as many law-abiding people there as here. We just like to get a bit crazy when crime happens there. Things we blow off here turn into big events when it's "Mexico" Just my opinion. . . .


There is a slight difference between the countries. 
Homicide rate per 100K:
Mexico		21.5
United States	4.7


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## DBS1968 (Jun 10, 2015)

*Since you like stats...lol*

Number of Americans killed in Mexico in 2014: 100. Mostly believed to be involved in illegal activities or mexican-american/locals.. Source: US State Dept. If you look for trouble, you will find it. Source: Common Sense.

You still almost as likely to get struck by lightning in the USA than to be murdered in Mexico. 91-ish people last year


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## pittle (Jun 10, 2015)

We recently drove to Mazatlan and had no problems whatsoever.  It seemed that every checkpoint when they saw that we were Americans, they just waved us on.  We do not drive at night and every resort that we stay at has secure parking and staff 24/7, so we do not worry.  We do tend to drive to local restaurants and tourist attractions, but that is because we have been these so often that we have pretty much seen everything.  We go to enjoy the beach.

I checked the State Department site and the major tourist areas are considered safe.


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## Maz (Jun 10, 2015)

I live in the Puerto Vallarta area pretty much full time. Locally, we all kind of chuckle when we read this stuff. It was basically a non event down here and life didn't miss a beat. Many didn't even know it happened. It's peaceful and quiet as usual. Just having amazing dinners and watching incredible sunsets every night and being around some of the best people on earth. Things like this are barely a blip on the radar especially when you see things like Baltimore and Ferguson etc.


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## travs2 (Jun 14, 2015)

Just heard back from my friend who lives with her family in Puerto Vallarta.  She said all is well in PV and "that it is a shame that this small incident was blown way out of proportion".  She said that it was a very "immature" operation and that " it was all over before it even began".  So, those are her words.  Looks like we should all relax and start planning our next trip to Nuevo/PV.  It is a beautiful area and the people are so warm and welcoming.  Let's go!


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## DBS1968 (Jun 15, 2015)

*Coming down next week*

CANNOT WAIT!! Looking forward to El Tigre golf and some awesome dinners!


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## nazclk (Jun 30, 2015)

*Posts*

Yeah Yeah every jumps on Mexico, why in the hell don't they issue some warnings for the United States, they murder more people here than probably anywhere in Mexico, but warnings don't come.  Same bullsh** with the swine flu a couple of years ago. Went to Cabo and they didn't have one case there, came back to California and had dozens. It's all politics and scare tactics, stay home if you are so afraid.


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## MuranoJo (Jul 1, 2015)

^^^

I hate to admit, but we have friends who say they'll never return with us due to all the press.  And yet they loved every minute of the trip.  Can't convince them otherwise.  Their loss, I guess.


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