# Access to Abound is up!



## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

It seems that access to Abound via Vistana website is now up and running. It also seems my post 8/9 is listed as “not enrolled” that’s a bummer. If this isn’t the official roll out, it surely is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately I have no eligible weeks in 2023 to convert to test it (I’ve already made reservations using SO). Someone else may be in a better position to test it out.


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> It seems that access to Abound via Vistana website is now up and running. It also seems my post 8/9 is listed as “not enrolled” that’s a bummer. If this isn’t the official roll out, it surely is a step in the right direction.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no eligible weeks in 2023 to convert to test it (I’ve already made reservations using SO). Someone else may be in a better position to test it out.
> 
> View attachment 69358View attachment 69359


Borrowing from 2024 does not seem to be an option yet.


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## zjhasan1976 (Nov 30, 2022)

I am finding that it is really slow and times out when I use my desktop but faster on my phone.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

Two new areas added to use club points.


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## mlaw8 (Nov 30, 2022)

I haven't used any 2023 options, but don't see anywhere to select a year.  Anyone else seeing the same?


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

mlaw8 said:


> I haven't used any 2023 options, but don't see anywhere to select a year.  Anyone else seeing the same?
> 
> View attachment 69361


So it seems that it’s not fully functional yet. I can’t see any eligible ownerships on the Marriott site.


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## travelhacker (Nov 30, 2022)

I can elect my 2024 weeks (I have home resort reservations for 2023).

I'm a little bit scared to do so because I'm not sure if I'll actually be able to use them for bookings.

If I cancel a 2023 home resort reservation can I elect those into Abound?


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## mlaw8 (Nov 30, 2022)

mlaw8 said:


> I haven't used any 2023 options, but don't see anywhere to select a year.  Anyone else seeing the same?
> 
> View attachment 69361


They are there now...


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## travelhacker (Nov 30, 2022)

Anyone brave enough to elect and report back if they can search availability?

My understanding is that the availability you can see is limited to the points that you have.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

@travelhacker Apparently people on Facebook are reporting vistana inventory already in abound using club points…. Someone reported Christmas at Westin St John….. ummmm what happened to vistana owners electing for club points first?! It looks like the best weeks are showing up in abound and not VSN. It looks like y’all will owe @timsi the biggest apology ever if this is the case


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

I have a week reserved. Do I need to cancel the week in order to elect Club Points?

I see this when I go to the screen to elect club points:

Ineligible VOI

The Westin Kā‘anapali Ocean Resort Villas North
Contract #, Week-04, 2 Bedroom Lockoff Villa, Oceanfront, Platinum+, 530605

Reason
You do not currently have any usage remaining to elect for Club Points. (Error Code: 08)


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## zjhasan1976 (Nov 30, 2022)

There is an area where you can calculate how many Abound points it will take for each resort/room size/season etc.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> @travelhacker Apparently people on Facebook are reporting vistana inventory already in abound using club points…. Someone reported Christmas at Westin St John….. ummmm what happened to vistana owners electing for club points first?! It looks like the best weeks are showing up in abound and not VSN. It looks like y’all will owe @timsi the biggest apology ever if this is the case



Marriott owns a lot of good inventory so that will show up in Abound.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Marriott owns a lot of good inventory so that will show up in Abound.


So they lied. Vistana owners do not have to convert for inventory to show up in abound. Best weeks going to abound instead of VSN was logical concern. It was a concern that Marriott people called vistana owners conspiracy theorists over. If this rings true it looks like some were correct


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I have a week reserved. Do I need to cancel the week in order to elect Club Points?
> 
> I see this when I go to the screen to elect club points:
> 
> ...


I believe so. I’m having the same issue. Nothing available for 2023 because the only full use of a vistana ownership I have is a post 8/9 resale.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So they lied. Vistana owners do not have to convert for inventory to show up in abound. Best weeks going to abound instead of VSN was logical concern. It was a concern that Marriott people called vistana owners conspiracy theorists over. If this rings true it looks like some were correct



I am not following what you are saying. I am assuming that Marriott is putting the inventory they directly own into Abound. I do not see this as a conspiracy or evil. I do not understand why this upsets you.


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## teddyo333 (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am not following what you are saying. I am assuming that Marriott is putting the inventory they directly own into Abound. I do not see this as a conspiracy or evil. I do not understand why this upsets you.



I think individuals believed that Abound inventory was dependent on the number of Vistana owners that converted to points. It appears as though Abound will have inventory available even if there is no conversion by Vistana owners. It will be interesting to see what that inventory is compromised of.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am not following what you are saying. I am assuming that Marriott is putting the inventory they directly own into Abound. I do not see this as a conspiracy or evil. I do not understand why this upsets you.


It’s all about setting expectations…. Customer experience. Marriott seems to have zero interest in customer satisfaction that’s all


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## teddyo333 (Nov 30, 2022)

I also observed that ones elite status for MVC is now reflected in ones account summary. I guess Vistana elite levels are officially retired


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

teddyo333 said:


> I also observed that ones elite status for MVC is now reflected in ones account summary. I guess Vistana elite levels are officially retired


I’m presidential and I’m it so sure how lol. I’m hoping that’s a glitch that doesn’t get resolved hah


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

I just called to elect Abound points. It is done and the points instantly appeared in my Marriott account. The rep said it would take 24-72 hours but it was immediate for me.


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am not following what you are saying. I am assuming that Marriott is putting the inventory they directly own into Abound. I do not see this as a conspiracy or evil. I do not understand why this upsets you.


You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


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## cubigbird (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


So does this mean that VSN will see less inventory is true?


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## HankW (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I have a week reserved. Do I need to cancel the week in order to elect Club Points?
> 
> I see this when I go to the screen to elect club points:
> 
> ...



In my case, as of today, 2024 points are correct, but I do not currently have the shown 2023 points since I got three reservations set for 2023; weird.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

HankW said:


> In my case, as of today, 2024 points are correct, but I do not currently have the shown 2023 points since I got three reservations set for 2023; weird.


My account isn’t showing all of my eligible ownerships. I knew Marriott would screw that up!


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.



Maybe I am missing your point. The way I see it is that Marritott owns the inventory and they chose to deposit into Abound just like any other owner. I am agreeing with you. So why is this against the rules?


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


Someone booked WLR in abound for 5 nights. Interesting….


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Maybe I am missing your point. The way I see it is that Marritott owns the inventory and they chose to deposit into Abound just like any other owner. I am agreeing with you. So why is this against the rules?


It was also said that Marriott would seek to dry up the VSN. We were right


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## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


I do agree with @timsi on this. If owners at the resort can't even book yet due to being more than 12 months out, it definitely is wrong that non-owners can. I still don't like the idea of non-owners booking more than 8 months out. The only way I'd say that's okay is if it's fixed-week inventory owned by MVC or elected into Abound by a fixed-week owner. Floating inventory should definitely not be available that far out.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

It worked perfectly for me. I deposited my WKOVRN week and got 8325 points. Then I booked 3 nights using about 3000 of those points back into WKOVRN to match up with my 9N at MOC. To me, even though those 3N are expensive, it fit my vacation plans perfectly.

This is 5 months in so it would follow the rules people are complaining about. I do not want to debate the rules or that Marriott is evil. I really do not care how it works. I just do what I can to get what fits my vacation plans.


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## ocdb8r (Nov 30, 2022)

Houston, I think we have a problem....



timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


So, I think from past points it's obvious I don't agree with timsi's interpretation of the Home Resort Reservation Rules.  I believe that for any inventory that Marriott  (or the DP trust) owns or for inventory that other owners "elect" into Abound, MVC can get away with providing availability at 12 months out.


CPNY said:


> @travelhacker Apparently people on Facebook are reporting vistana inventory already in abound using club points…. Someone reported Christmas at Westin St John….. ummmm what happened to vistana owners electing for club points first?! It looks like the best weeks are showing up in abound and not VSN. It looks like y’all will owe @timsi the biggest apology ever if this is the case


I also think that the Westin St. John is a bit of a unique situation as many fixed week / fixed units were sold here that are reserved more than 12 months out....and as such if Marriott (or the DP trust) owns or an owner of such a week "elects" into Abound, this could also technically make these weeks available.

HOWEVER, what I see is problematic as even with my (what some may say is liberal) interpretation of the rules, I don't understand how some inventory is currently available in Abound. Not only are there Westin St. John 2023 Christmas weeks available, but I basically see ALL of December 2023 at Westin Kaanapali (south) (and several weeks at north) available in Abound in various unit sizes.  I have no idea how this would be possible as even owners cannot book more than 12 months out.  I even went right through the last step of booking (but did not finally confirm) to make sure it "held" the inventory to let me finalize.

Definitely not good news, unless this is a launch day quirk/problem.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Houston, I think we have a problem....
> 
> 
> So, I think from past points it's obvious I don't agree with timsi's interpretation of the Home Resort Reservation Rules.  I believe that for any inventory that Marriott  (or the DP trust) owns or for inventory that other owners "elect" into Abound, MVC can get away with providing availability at 12 months out.
> ...


I don’t think it’s a quirk/problem. Many suspected Marriott of filtering the best weeks of vistana for Marriott owners and it seems that those who had that concern were correct. Most owners dont trust Marriott. Not that it’s that big of deal. Vistana owners still have the upper hand, we have the VSN AND Abound.


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## needvaca (Nov 30, 2022)

Can someone check if Westin Kierland Feb-March is available in Abound?  All inventory for Feb-Mar completely disappeared in Vistana around the 9 month mark, even random days here and there.  It was around the time Vistana remove the "calendar availability" feature from their website.
I've been a Kierland owner for 18 years, and never once have seen absolutely no availability in Feb-March until this year, so my bet is that Marriott scooped it up for Abound months ago.


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

cubigbird said:


> So does this mean that VSN will see less inventory is true?



If a resort has 100 units and Vistana gives 35 Christmas weeks to Abound, only 65 will be available to the resort owners.


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## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

needvaca said:


> Can someone check if Westin Kierland Feb-March is available in Abound?  All inventory for Feb-Mar completely disappeared in Vistana around the 9 month mark, even random days here and there.  It was around the time Vistana remove the "calendar availability" feature from their website.
> I've been a Kierland owner for 18 years, and never once have seen absolutely no availability in Feb-March until this year, so my bet is that Marriott scooped it up for Abound months ago.


Nothing available in Abound, not even a single night.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 30, 2022)

How does Westin St. John inventory end up in II for exchanging more than 8 months out? Whatever the answer is, the same should apply to WSJ inventory that ends up in the Abound Exchange Company.

Two things:

1. One source of the available WSJ inventory could be II. From the DC/Abound start Marriott has been able to pull inventory from II to satisfy requests using DC/Abound Points. Below is copied from the TUG FAQ (that's linked below in my signature:

_>>MVCI Weeks and MVCD Points inventory is kept separate according to the terms of each system's governing documents in order to protect Owners/Members ownership and usage rights. Inventory available through the DC Exchange Company is sourced from Marriott-controlled deposits as well as (according to a no-longer-available FAQ that had been posted to the owners' website during the early DC years,) "... other Marriott Vacation Club Owners who enroll their weeks and elect Vacation Club Points, and non-enrolled Owners who trade their usage for Marriott Rewards points or exchange their week through membership in Interval International."

*Technically*, in compliance with the governing documents, DC Trust Members have direct access to inventory in the DC Trust as well as inventory available through the DC Exchange Company; and, DC Exchange Members have direct access to only the inventory that's available through the DC Exchange Company.  *Functionally*, it appears that Marriott is managing inventory such that a few select high-demand intervals are available only from the Trust at the 13-months Reservation Window, then at the 12-months Reservation Window most intervals are made available through the Exchange Company. Effectively, it appears that inventory is currently being managed by Marriott such that the technical v. functional legal aspects are practically nullified with respect to the overwhelming majority of available intervals.<<_

2. We've never been told the machinations that Marriott uses to manipulate inventory through the Weeks, Points, II, and Other sources. It's not a given that Marriott pre-books inventory that's made available via the Abound Exchange Company. Not that my opinion is worth more than anybody else's but I don't believe that they pre-book anything. I think available intervals are coded into the system as to their origin and how they can be used/by whom, then in realtime as a request is made the system searches across all sources of inventory to fulfill the request. So basically, instead of picturing separate buckets I picture a single bucket from which inventory can be pulled depending on both the requestor's eligibility AND the source of the inventory, with built-in stops that prevent an interval being used in such a way that either owners' or Marriott's rights are violated. Using the example above, if a resort has 100 sold like intervals and 35 owners select other-than-home usage, a stopgap exists that prevents more than 35 intervals from being pulled away from owners, and, stopgaps exist to prevent the DC/Abound from pulling unfair multiples of the highest-demand intervals across a floating season.

Of course I could be wrong about all of this but it's what makes the most sense to me considering that once the back-end coding program is written it basically runs itself, and over the years we haven't seen anything to suggest that Marriott manipulates inventory for its own benefit to the detriment of Weeks/Points owners.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2022)

Doesn’t WSJ have some fixed week/unit ownerships? At what point do those get reserved? Does it happen at 18 months, 13 months or 12? I am not sure, but perhaps that is a way for them to get into Abound prior to 12 months?


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

I just deposited my WKOVRN 2BR OF. So that is great inventory now available for some one else.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> @travelhacker Apparently people on Facebook are reporting vistana inventory already in abound using club points…. Someone reported Christmas at Westin St John….. ummmm what happened to vistana owners electing for club points first?! It looks like the best weeks are showing up in abound and not VSN. It looks like y’all will owe @timsi the biggest apology ever if this is the case


Christmas 2022 or 2023?


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## ocdb8r (Nov 30, 2022)

I don't think it's as simple as saying Marriott is grabbing up the best weeks to give them to Abound.  There is definitely some sort of inventory management going on.  My (pure speculation) based on about an hour of searching in Abound is that immediate availability is clearly tied to inventory MVC owns/controls and perhaps even the inventory that has been directly added to the DP points trust.

What leads me to think there's something like this going on?  There is not a single Westin Nanea or Westin Los Cabos week available at any time that is currently searchable in Abound.  Yet there is a TON of availability at Los Cabos in VSN (and keep in mind, this is a destination MVC has no resort in so I would imagine they would want to try to make some availability here) and there is even sporadic availability in VSN for Nanea.

What do these resorts have in common?  They were never sold as weeks and as such MVC has had no opportunity to scoop up resales and dump them in the DP trust for direct Abound usage.  Everything for these two resorts is in a committed points trust (which likely makes it more difficult (maybe not possible) for Marriott to shift actual ownership into the DP trust).


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## ConejoRed (Nov 30, 2022)

Well if this is the number of Abound points my WSJ VGV 2 Bedroom week will receive if I deposit it, there is no way I am going to do that as it much more valuable using it in the Vistana network!   The number does correspond to around the number of points to book the same week (Wk 20) with points, but I can certainly get better use out of the 148,100 options to book in the Vistana network at this rate (especially given the very high maintenance fee at WSJ).   The 2024 usage is not showing as Vistana has that week is booked for my fixed week and I haven't released it yet.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 30, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Christmas 2022 or 2023?


I did a quick search for WSJ / DEC2023 / 3 nights / 2 guests; three check-in days of the month were available with one of them covering 12/24/23.


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## needvaca (Nov 30, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Nothing available in Abound, not even a single night.


interesting, because Fasttr just posted on the Marriott board that they just booked 7 nights at Kierland in February.








						Westin / Sheraton properties are now available to book for MVC owners! [MERGED]
					

I logged in this am to look for a Jan date in St Thomas and the Sheraton and Westin properties are listed for bookings !!




					tugbbs.com


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## ocdb8r (Nov 30, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Doesn’t WSJ have some fixed week/unit ownerships? At what point do those get reserved? Does it happen at 18 months, 13 months or 12? I am not sure, but perhaps that is a way for them to get into Abound prior to 12 months?


Yep - this is what I posted above....it doesn't answer all the questions though.









						Access to Abound is up!
					

You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort...




					tugbbs.com


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## MICROZE (Nov 30, 2022)

I see quite a bit of availability DEC-2023 within Abound for some Westin's.


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## ocdb8r (Nov 30, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Nothing available in Abound, not even a single night.





needvaca said:


> interesting, because someone just posted on the Marriott board that they just booked 7 nights at Kierland in February.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed - I am seeing every single week at Kierland available in February and March.


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## MICROZE (Nov 30, 2022)

Can also book Kierland for Superbowl-2023 even though there is ZERO availability Feb/Mar-2023 via Vsitana.


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## needvaca (Nov 30, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Agreed - I am seeing every single week at Kierland available in February and March.


Now we know Marriott took all this inventory for Abound.  back in June, still in the Home Resort reservation period for most owners.  
I posted this back in June (see post link below).  
I highly doubt Marriott owns enough Platinum Kierland weeks to scoop up all the Feb/March inventory.  So how was this allowed?









						Looking beyond 8 mo to preview availability
					

Are we no longer able to see beyond the 8 mo point for a possible staroption reservation? It used to show when the window would open and now I only see 8 mo out.  Trying to figure out if I should log in right when it opens at 8 mo and look for the 2 consecutive days I'd like to add before my 1...




					tugbbs.com


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## travelhacker (Nov 30, 2022)

If I cancel a 2023 home resort reservation, can I then deposit those points to abound?


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## kozykritter (Nov 30, 2022)

I am having a different issue. I go into the election option, select 2023, use the two SFlex contracts I have that are eligible and show max club point values that match what I was told at my last update, and then get to the final review page where it lists both contracts as about to be elected but shows a zero value for club points being received. Of course I didn't click the final button to do the election. Anyone else have this issue?


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

No one knows what is happening behind the scenes with Marriott. I think it is unproductive to speculate, accuse Marriott of wrongdoing and get angry about this.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> I am having a different issue. I go into the election option, select 2023, use the two SFlex contracts I have that are eligible and show max club point values that match what I was told at my last update, and then get to the final review page where it lists both contracts as about to be elected but shows a zero value for club points being received. Of course I didn't click the final button to do the election. Anyone else have this issue?


I only had this issue when I had a week booked. I had to cancel the week and get the SOs. Then I could elect Abound points.


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## kozykritter (Nov 30, 2022)

Also when I click on Transfer Club Points and it takes me into the MVC website, it shows me as an Executive as it should as a 3-star. In that account, I can't see any of my MVC ownership. When I log on to MVC, I am still listed at Owner level and can't see any Vistana ownership. Either they haven't linked up the Abound level yet for dual owners or I've been missed!

In my MVC owner account, I was able to book backwards to Vistana with a Steamboat 2Bed for June using my Club Points there...only 1,000 Club points or 37K SFlex equivalent. If I booked it through Vistana, it would be 97.5K SFlex options. I'm loving Abound already!


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## kozykritter (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I only had this issue when I had a week booked. I had to cancel the week and get the SOs. Then I could elect Abound points.


I can understand that. In my case one of the two SFlex contracts was completely untouched and on the other it knew I could elect one increment of 20K and I chose that option. So definitely they are still working on it.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 30, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> If I cancel a 2023 home resort reservation, can I then deposit those points to abound?


If your rules are the same as those of Marriott Abound members, then yes.

But you don't actually "deposit" points into Abound (in the same manner that you can deposit your ownership into II, for example.) What you would be doing is electing your ownership Weeks/Points for Abound Points, which stay in your ownership account until you use them in the Abound Exchange Company or for any other Abound options. But yes, you can cancel a res and then elect for Abound Points, as long as you're electing before the deadline.

An aside: Using Abound points in II is generally an okay option for Trust Members (owners of purchased Abound Trust Points) because it's the only way those points can be used to secure non-Marriott resorts, and, a last-resort option for Exchange Members (owners of enrolled Weeks.) If you're an enrolled member and you want to use II for exchanging, you'll get much better II usage value out of depositing your ownership into II the same way you always have.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Christmas 2022 or 2023?


2023…. Apparently


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> If your rules are the same as those of Marriott Abound members, then yes.
> 
> But you don't actually "deposit" points into Abound (in the same manner that you can deposit your ownership into II, for example.) What you would be doing is electing your ownership Weeks/Points for Abound Points, which stay in your ownership account until you use them in the Abound Exchange Company or for any other Abound options. But yes, you can cancel a res and then elect for Abound Points, as long as you're electing before the deadline.
> 
> An aside: Using Abound points in II is generally an okay option for Trust Members (owners of purchased Abound Trust Points) because it's the only way those points can be used to secure non-Marriott resorts, and, a last-resort option for Exchange Members (owners of enrolled Weeks.) If you're an enrolled member and you want to use II for exchanging, you'll get much better II usage value out of depositing your ownership into II the same way you always have.


Question on your interval statement….let’s say you want to book a non Marriott/vistana resort but my Vistana unit doesn’t see the unit, can I convert that to abound points equal to a studio? If so, will those studio points pull 1 bedrooms or 2 bedrooms with the option to pay an upgrade fee?


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## TSKing (Nov 30, 2022)

needvaca said:


> Can someone check if Westin Kierland Feb-March is available in Abound?  All inventory for Feb-Mar completely disappeared in Vistana around the 9 month mark, even random days here and there.  It was around the time Vistana remove the "calendar availability" feature from their website.
> I've been a Kierland owner for 18 years, and never once have seen absolutely no availability in Feb-March until this year, so my bet is that Marriott scooped it up for Abound months ago.


It is.  But I am a Marriott Chairman Club points owner.  I see that the WK is available any day of the month in March.  But I am also a Vistana owner. I see no availability on the Vistana site.  I also see this with the Westin Kaanapali.  I am not sure how this is working.  I am afraid maybe that some people on this site are correct about how availability works.  So are Vistana owners getting a raw deal?  I don't know.  But even without the Abound piece, I am still puzzled and annoyed with the way any availability works!! For example, I was trying to get Marriott Grand Chateau in December recently, and the week I wanted was never available as a Marriott timeshare points owner.  But it was available on the Marriott Hotel Website!!! Why!!!  At times weeks are available on Interval, even though there is no availability as a timeshare owner.


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## blondietink (Nov 30, 2022)

I just logged in and we are listed as Executive, which is consistent with what the original email back in August? said.  One of the benefits is that Executive ( and higher I presume) can book 13 months out.  So that is how people are booking for Christmas next year?


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## Denise L (Nov 30, 2022)

Do we know if an Abound timestamp from a non-home resort owner will beat out a 12-month out reservation from an owner as far as view/villa assignment?


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## SueDonJ (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Question on your interval statement….let’s say you want to book a non Marriott/vistana resort but my Vistana unit doesn’t see the unit, can I convert that to abound points equal to a studio? If so, will those studio points pull 1 bedrooms or 2 bedrooms with the option to pay an upgrade fee?


First, others are much more familiar with II than me, so I welcome anybody to correct anything I get wrong and/or to flush out the basics. 

When you use Abound Points in II it's according to a points chart and if there's availability you can pull any inventory for which you have the points. Here's a recent post on the Marriott forum with the chart. Effectively it works more like the Abound Points chart than it does the typical II exchange with contrasting the value of what you deposit and what you can pull, and no upgrade fees are involved. But I believe that Abound Points can be used in II only to pull non-Marriott (and now assuming non-Vistana inventory) so an external exchange fee will be charged.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 30, 2022)

TSKing said:


> ... For example, I was trying to get Marriott Grand Chateau in December recently, and the week I wanted was never available as a Marriott timeshare points owner.  But it was available on the Marriott Hotel Website!!! Why!!! ...


This is nothing new and it happens with every timeshare system that's affiliated with a hotel system. What happens with Marriott timeshares when an owner elects Bonvoy Points or any of the cruise/hotel/etc options is that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has to pay the option provider (Marriott, Int'l/Bonvoy/cruise companies) for the exchanged usage, and then they try to monetize it to recoup the cost. It isn't that the hotel company is poaching the timeshare intervals that should be available for owners; it's that owners' elections give rights to those timeshare intervals to MVW which in turn uses the hotel platform to recoup the costs.


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> If I cancel a 2023 home resort reservation, can I then deposit those points to abound?


I’d assume


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> First, others are much more familiar with II than me, so I welcome anybody to correct anything I get wrong and/or to flush out the basics.
> 
> When you use Abound Points in II it's according to a points chart and if there's availability you can pull any inventory for which you have the points. Here's a recent post on the Marriott forum with the chart. Effectively it works more like the Abound Points chart than it does the typical II exchange with contrasting the value of what you deposit and what you can pull, and no upgrade fees are involved. But I believe that Abound Points can be used in II only to pull non-Marriott (and now assuming non-Vistana inventory) so an external exchange fee will be charged.


That helps a lot actually. I’d be thinking more for DVC reservations. So I’d need to convert without knowing when I’d be getting available inventory. It’s probably not wise to go that route


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## capjak (Nov 30, 2022)

I can book Feb 2022, WKORV North through Marriott Point but can not book WKORV North using star options.  I can book Feb 2022 Nanea in star options but not Marriott Points,  so this is going to add some decisions on election of one or the other.


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## cubigbird (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> If a resort has 100 units and Vistana gives 35 Christmas weeks to Abound, only 65 will be available to the resort owners.


Then if true this tells me that Abound will starve VSN of inventory.  Am I looking at this right?


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## VacationForever (Nov 30, 2022)

Has anyone tried to deposit 2023 Vistana weeks into II and see if they get free trades back to Vistana or Marriott weeks?

On my wish list, is to have MVC merge the 2 II corporate accounts so that I do not need to pay twice to get Platinum membership.


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## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Agreed - I am seeing every single week at Kierland available in February and March.


Is there a minimum stay requirement? I tried searching for just 1 night and didn't see anything.


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## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

needvaca said:


> Now we know Marriott took all this inventory for Abound.  back in June, still in the Home Resort reservation period for most owners.
> I posted this back in June (see post link below).
> I highly doubt Marriott owns enough Platinum Kierland weeks to scoop up all the Feb/March inventory.  So how was this allowed?
> 
> ...


It is concerning; from a PR and customer satisfaction standpoint, it would be a good idea for MVC to explain how/why this is happening, even if only in general terms.


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## vacation dreaming (Nov 30, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Has anyone tried to deposit 2023 Vistana weeks into II and see if they get free trades back to Vistana or Marriott weeks?
> 
> On my wish list, is to have MVC merge the 2 II corporate accounts so that I do not need to pay twice to get Platinum membership.


I was just wondering the same thing.  I have never used II for my Vistana week, but I am considering depositing a 2023 week soon.  Will I be able to trade into a Marriott week for free and will I still have to wait longer than if I deposited a Marriott week?  With Vistana, am I late in depositing a 2023 week for trade value?  I do not understand the way Vistana gives a blended value since I would be depositing a Maui week.


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## Red elephant (Nov 30, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> If I cancel a 2023 home resort reservation, can I then deposit those points to abound?


Yes if it’s a whole VOI . I just did it with SVR


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## TSKing (Nov 30, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> This is nothing new and it happens with every timeshare system that's affiliated with a hotel system. What happens with Marriott timeshares when an owner elects Bonvoy Points or any of the cruise/hotel/etc options is that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has to pay the option provider (Marriott, Int'l/Bonvoy/cruise companies) for the exchanged usage, and then they try to monetize it to recoup the cost. It isn't that the hotel company is poaching the timeshare intervals that should be available for owners; it's that owners' elections give rights to those timeshare intervals to MVW which in turn uses the hotel platform to recoup the costs.


Yes I understand there's a system.  I guess you just have to see if you can get what you want by understanding it.  Like quite often, Marriott releases a ton of weeks for a particular timeshare on Interval.  You cannot trade a Marriott VC for a Marriott timeshare on interval, but I have another timeshare that I do that with.  So I can actually get a Marriott week for a lot less than using my Marriott VC points.Anyway, it is what it is.  I was just complaining but know that it won't change.


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## sponger76 (Nov 30, 2022)

cubigbird said:


> Then if true this tells me that Abound will starve VSN of inventory.  Am I looking at this right?


I think it will take a couple of years of trying to book via VSN to know for sure. I hope not, but Day One is a little bit worrisome.


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## Red elephant (Nov 30, 2022)

I booked 1 bedroom premium Westin Kierland for October using SVR enrollment to Abound ( exchange was instant) . Did not want to wait 8 months to use staroptions. If it’s still available then will book with staroptions and cancel abound reservation . Not sure which is cost effective at this point. It was only 1350 points for 5 nights.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m presidential and I’m it so sure how lol. I’m hoping that’s a glitch that doesn’t get resolved hah




It has me as Chairman’s Club, with 22,025 CPs

I think this is wrong - perhaps includes our previous WSJ ownership?

Our 2023 reservations are all done using HomeResort and VSN (StarOptions) - it will be interesting to see what happens in 2024.

I have a required TS presentation at WKORV in mid-January. It will be interesting to see what they try and sell me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DanCali (Nov 30, 2022)

mlaw8 said:


> I haven't used any 2023 options, but don't see anywhere to select a year.  Anyone else seeing the same?
> 
> View attachment 69361




I wish I got that far....


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## CPNY (Nov 30, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> It has me as Chairman’s Club, with 22,025 CPs
> 
> I think this is wrong - perhaps includes our previous WSJ ownership?
> 
> ...


This is one screw up I hope stays. I’m still missing one of my ownerships from showing up in Abound so that’s frustrating.


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## DanCali (Nov 30, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> It has me as Chairman’s Club, with 22,025 CPs
> 
> I think this is wrong - perhaps includes our previous WSJ ownership?
> 
> ...




A common pitch is that you need Trust Points to be able to really book the most desired inventory.

Allegedly - Trust Points can see what is in the Trust and Exchange System. "Legacy" points (come from weeks) can only see the Exchange System. So your points are second rate... Cadillac vs Pinto spiel etc.

Don't fall for it... Here are some threads on that topic from the Marriott forum:









						Enrolled versus Trust Inventory Availability?
					

So, do you really need to 'own' both kinds of points to access all available points inventory? It has been claimed that if you are an enrolled week owner, you can only see 'enrolled' points inventory to make a points reservation. Similarly, if you own only 'trust' points, you would see only...




					tugbbs.com
				












						Do trust points see different (as in more) inventory from enrolled weeks points?
					

Sales guy claimed if we added trust points we would have access to a larger inventory so much better chances of getting into locations we want.  Any truth in this?Or just sales talk.  BTW thanks for all the advice yesterday, we will rescind, just need to figure out how,  Everything is Docusign...




					tugbbs.com
				












						Trust Point versus Legacy Point
					

I just booked a reservation at the Marriott Vacation Club and upon placing it in hold, was presented with a variety of options as to the ratio of Trust Points versus Legacy Points to pull.  The rules surrounding each are the same, except that there may be certain properties now or in the future...




					tugbbs.com
				




Also see post #2 in the FAQ thread:









						Marriott Abound (formerly Destination Club) Points-System FAQ & Guide
					

** During 2022 Marriott Vacations Worldwide announced in Investor Meetings that Vistana timeshares would be integrated into the Marriott points system, and, that the Destination Club would be renamed Abound. After all details have been officially announced, this FAQ will be reviewed/edited to...




					tugbbs.com


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## LahainaMoon (Nov 30, 2022)

The Vistana website has been hit or miss for me all day, but now seems to working.  Slowly.  Just received the Abound announcement from Marriott Vacation Club 30 minutes ago.

None of my ownerships are showing up on the Marriott side, but the Abound points on the Vistana side are what was expected.


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## JohnPaul (Nov 30, 2022)

I own 2 EOY.  1 developer and one resale (several years ago). 

I’ve booked 2023.  Do I have to wait for 2025 to see what my units bring?


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 30, 2022)

DanCali said:


> A common pitch is that you need Trust Points to be able to really book the most desired inventory.
> 
> Allegedly - Trust Points can see what is in the Trust and Exchange System. "Legacy" points (come from weeks) can only see the exchange system. So your points are second rate... Cadillac vs Pinto spiel etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links.
I wasn’t planning on buying.

I have a required presentation that I agreed to thru a ‘special’ WKORV vacation package (90K SOs - mostly expiring) — 1Bd OV, 5nites, Lanai snorkeling tour, sunset Whale watching and $50 credit to Aunties.

I have no plans to use Abound, but will pay the extra $60 to keep future options open.

I have somehow gone from 3*/SPG Gold to BonVoy Titanium Elite and MVC Chairman’s Club with essentially the same 4 SVO/VSE VOIs we’ve owned since 2007/08 - 3 of them resale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pchung6 (Nov 30, 2022)

Vistana website is so slow now, I can barely load the dashboard and nothing else is working for me. MVC website is even worst, everything is error there. Hopefully they can fix it soon, so I really want to take a look how the new program will take us into.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 30, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> I think it will take a couple of years of trying to book via VSN to know for sure. I hope not, but Day One is a little bit worrisome.



For me it will be “the proof is in the pudding” approach.

I have been reserving weeks at exactly 12- and 8- months ahead for 16 years (calling at 6am PST, and then online system). Always with excellent results.

Up until last Feb/March when there were supposed IT merger issues.

Going forward — I will be able to compare the Reality with the Hypothetical as I have pretty much always reserved the same weeks at the same time.

In the meantime, I have 2023 covered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

These (and many other weeks) are available now in Abound before the booking window has opened for the resorts owners. There is no event week mid-December at either resort.

The Westin Kā‘anapali Ocean Resort Villas North
Maui, Hawai‘i, United States
Check in: 09 Dec 2023
Check out: 16 Dec 2023
Studio: 3510
1 Bedroom: 4680
2 Bedroom: 7290

The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort
Cancún, Quintana Roo, Mexico
Check in: 09 Dec 2023
Check out: 16 Dec 2023
Studio: 2130
1 Bedroom: 3090
2 Bedroom: 4740


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

If you go to the calculator on MVC’s website that tells you when you can reserve, you can’t reserve Vistana properties until 12 months out. Some folks on here were saying you could book at 13 months but that does not appear to be the case. Maybe there is a glitch in the system if you are seeing that.


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## alwysonvac (Nov 30, 2022)

Thanks for the heads up. 
Booked a two nights stay after my II exchange in Aruba 

I was able to elect one of my 2024 Vistana weeks for Club Points and then I booked a 2023 MVC reservation using my 2024 Club Points. 

_*Update:* Forgot to mention.. a 2024 Maintenance Fee payment wasn’t required for my 2024 Club Point election/deposit into Abound _


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 30, 2022)

Can someone decipher this? I see 12 months for Westin/Sheraton under waitlist but not at 13 month window. This was under the "When can I reserve" button;


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## luv_maui (Nov 30, 2022)

I tried electing into abound points but get an error


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

CPNY said:


> @travelhacker Apparently people on Facebook are reporting vistana inventory already in abound using club points…. Someone reported Christmas at Westin St John….. ummmm what happened to vistana owners electing for club points first?! It looks like the best weeks are showing up in abound and not VSN. It looks like y’all will owe @timsi the biggest apology ever if this is the case


The “conspiracy” was actually just reading the Abound Exchange Procedures and it was pretty clear  to me what they intended to do: “Exchange Company shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservations and use of the Accommodations and is authorized to demand balance, reserve, deposit, or rent the Accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the Accommodations or other benefits made available to Program Members through the Program in its sole discretion.” 

 It does not matter if the Vistana weeks available in Abound come from owner deposits that didn't even occur yet (based on “future anticipated demand”) or from inventory owned by Vistana. Bottom line is there is no paragraph I could find in the VSN or Lagunamar governing documents that allows Abound to book its own inventory in ways *not available *to the other owners even at the same time with the other owners let alone prior to the actual opening of the Home Resort Reservation Period. This is worse than I anticipated.  Also, as it was to be expected, once they see inventory in Abound, people started to book there Vistana weeks and deposit their (again Vistana) weeks. It is as clear as it can be that people will book wherever they can find inventory (especially prime weeks that are hard to book), and this attracts deposits. It is not the other way around, as much as the Marriott apologists have tried to convince us. 

I still have a hard time comprehending what is unclear about: “Required Reservation Periods. There must be at least one “Home Resort Reservation Period.” The Home Resort Reservation Period must permit a Member to request a reservation, *without competition* from anyone who is not assigned a Vacation Ownership Interest in a Vacation Unit that is the same Unit Type as the Member’s Unit Type and for any Vacation Period in the same Season as the Member’s Vacation Week, provided that nobody else has reserved the Vacation Period and that no other Persons have the exclusive right to reserve the Vacation Period. The Home Resort Reservation Period must last at least sixty (60) days. The Home Resort Reservation Period cannot begin more than eighteen months before the Check-in Day for any Use Period.” Marriott is making a joke out of the resort rules if the resort owners are now in competition for every week with the owners of 92 other resorts. 

Do we still believe in a rule-based system?  Not so sure.


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> It worked perfectly for me. I deposited my WKOVRN week and got 8325 points. Then I booked 3 nights using about 3000 of those points back into WKOVRN to match up with my 9N at MOC. To me, even though those 3N are expensive, it fit my vacation plans perfectly.
> 
> This is 5 months in so it would follow the rules people are complaining about. I do not want to debate the rules or that Marriott is evil.* I really do not care how it works.* I just do what I can to get what fits my vacation plans.


You could have booked in VSN. Did you not find inventory? This could be an indication that Abound can artificially attract more deposits if given better inventory. Abound is not "just an option" if the option to book in VSN goes away due to lack of prime inventory.


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## DanCali (Nov 30, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for the links.
> I wasn’t planning on buying.
> 
> I have a required presentation that I agreed to thru a ‘special’ WKORV vacation package (90K SOs - mostly expiring) — 1Bd OV, 5nites, Lanai snorkeling tour, sunset Whale watching and $50 credit to Aunties.
> ...



Definitely worth it to keep options open.

We booked a vacation for next year combining Ritz on St. Thomas (Abound @13 months) with WSJ (Staroptions @ 8 months). I wasn't sure if we'll pull it off at 8 months, but I was able to get a 2BR on WSJ for the days before St . Thomas and also a 3BR for the days after St Thomas (will only keep one of those).  And WKORV will get you pretty far in Abound - e.g., 2-weeks in a 2BR at Tahoe (Marriott Timber Lodge, or Grand Residence Club) in June for 6450 points. And you can get 10-12 days during ski season for the same number of points.

And given that if you don't pay the dues you'd go down to "Member" (no more VSN Elite), they really don't leave Elites much choice anyway


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

timsi said:


> You could have booked in VSN. Did you not find inventory? This could be an indication that Abound can artificially attract more deposits if given better inventory. Abound is not "just an option" if the option to book in VSN goes away due to lack of prime inventory.



If I booked through VSN I would have trouble using the left over SOs for anything given the odd number of leftover SOs. Plus I preferred to elect Abound points so I can go anywhere in the new system and not just be limited to the 3-4 resorts I like in the VSN system. However, I have never actually been anywhere in the Vistana system except Maui since nowhere really speaks to me or has been convenient to visit. I also do not like waiting until the 8 month mark to book since I usually plan way in advance. This is not always the case as I have been fiddling with adding days at the beginning and end of my upcoming MOC week in April. I also find managing multiple timeshare systems to be a lot of energy. I much prefer just combining everything into Abound and using that system to meet our personal vacation needs.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 30, 2022)

This was a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad rollout.  

I still only see one of our Westin OF weeks on Vistana's site under resorts owned and when paying my MF's.  Under account balances, it shows both of our OF weeks there, but it's not consistently showing two owned in the other places it should be showing.  

We show as Executive level but should be Chairman level 

I will have to call Vistana to pay my maintenance fees for the second week.  No statement shows for the second week in order to pay.  It's been since early August that the weeks went to Vistana to add to our account.  Come on, Vistana, get it together.  

I also have a Westin Desert Willow that has yet to transfer to my name, and the paperwork was sent 9/26.  

I called about a month ago and was assured that once the system updates occurred, our two OF Westin Maui weeks would show up in all places on the website.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

The problem with this roll out is it is not really a roll out. There has been no announcement. Everyone is confused and speculating. Those of us in the “know” are booking inventory early and by the time they formally announce, there may not be much inventory left for the late adopters. I was lucky that what I wanted to do worked smoothly. I am really lucky I read TUG and found out that Abound was live.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Can someone decipher this? I see 12 months for Westin/Sheraton under waitlist but not at 13 month window. This was under the "When can I reserve" button;
> 
> View attachment 69391



This chart is really easy to use. You enter your check in date and it tells you when you can book. It makes it clear that no one should be able to book Sheraton and Westin resorts before the 12 month mark. This should help alleviate some worries that the booking window is unfair to Vistana owners.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Nov 30, 2022)

capjak said:


> I can book Feb 2022, WKORV North through Marriott Point but can not book WKORV North using star options.  I can book Feb 2022 Nanea in star options but not Marriott Points,  so this is going to add some decisions on election of one or the other.


Extremely useful if you have a time machine


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## Troyrissa (Nov 30, 2022)

I’m not sure what is going on. My SVV Bella shows nothing for club points under what I own, even though it clearly says I am a VSN member. I have had this ownership since summer 2021. Adventuras shows my club points. Has anyone else had this problem where your club points are not reflected on Vistana’s website? Also when I try to elect club points it tells me I don’t have any to elect but the only reservation I have is using Aventuras in March 2023. My full SVV ownership is still available.


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## DanCali (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> This chart is really easy to use. You enter your check in date and it tells you when you can book. It makes it clear that no one should be able to book Sheraton and Westin resorts before the 12 month mark. This should help alleviate some worries that the booking window is unfair to Vistana owners.



It may be easy to use, but the fact that you need a chart in MVC to figure this out already implies that the system is much more complicated than Vistana... We never needed this to calculate 12 or 8 months in advance.


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## Troyrissa (Nov 30, 2022)

To follow up on my previous question, the bill for 2023 maintenance fees for SVV is due January 6. Do these have to be paid before I can see/elect club points?


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## dsmrp (Nov 30, 2022)

My MFs for my 2 units don't list any club fee.
Perhaps I need to elect for Abound pt conversion, so system will apply the new club fee ??
It still says that for VSN, I'd need to pay $49 for guest cert.  I thought those would be included in new club fee.

We are at the Abound level, Executive, that we thought we'd be based on grandfathering of VSN 3* elite level.
Surprisingly, the website says we'll potentially have 175 more Abound pts than what we were told from sales update mtgs.
I'm glad Marriott continued to tweak the point conversion charts.

When I clicked on link to elect for Abound points, it just stalled trying to load.
I didn't think there'd be any harm to go to election page, thinking that I'd have a further confirmation button to click before it applied.
I was trying to find the point conversion for each of my units considering the total is more than what we were told.

In Marriott.com,  DH shows as Bonvoy Platinum level, however I'm still at Gold.  So Marriott did indeed elevate one person on each unit deed or account.


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## TravelTime (Nov 30, 2022)

DanCali said:


> It may be easy to use, but the fact that you need a chart in MVC to figure this out already implies that the system is much more complicated than Vistana... We never needed this to calculate 12 or 8 months in advance.



If you buy into a timeshare, you need to go with the flow and expect changes. I think both MVC and Vistana are simple systems since I know how to use them. However, for both systems, I do not remember when to book. So I put a note on my online calendar and I send myself reminders the day before and the day of. Otherwise I would not remember when 12 months or 8 months is. Vistana might be simple but it is still hard to remember when to book.

I got upset with my Chase Sapphire credit card company today and was close to canceling the airline reservation and the credit card. The things they said on the phone were totally ridiculous. Then I calmed down a bit and told myself it was not worth being upset. Plus the 4 tickets to Hawaii were free since I was using points. If I canceled everything, then we would need to outlay cash instead. So I called the airline directly, even though I was resentful to have to do this, and made my seat selections.

My point in the above story is many of these various points systems are complicated, frustrating and annoying. We choose to become members because we saw some benefit, at least in the beginning. But we are not slaves or being held hostage. If someone really does not like their timeshare and it is ruining their quality of life, then they should sell it or give it away. You might say then they may be taking a loss. But that is better than hating your vacation provider. Vacations are supposed to be fun and reduce stress. But if it increases your stress, then get rid of it.


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## DanCali (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> If you buy into a timeshare, you need to go with the flow and expect changes. I think both MVC and Vistana are simple systems since I know how to use them. However, for both systems, I do not remember when to book. So I put a note on my online calendar and I send myself reminders the day before and the day of. Otherwise I would not remember when 12 months or 8 months is. Vistana might be simple but it is still hard to remember when to book.
> 
> I got upset with my Chase Sapphire credit card company today and was close to canceling the airline reservation and the credit card. The things they said on the phone were totally ridiculous. Then I calmed down a bit and told myself it was not worth being upset. Plus the 4 tickets to Hawaii were free since I was using points. If I canceled everything, then we would need to outlay cash instead. So I called the airline directly, even though I was resentful to have to do this, and made my seat selections.
> 
> My point in the above story is many of these various points systems are complicated, frustrating and annoying. We choose to become members because we saw some benefit, at least in the beginning. But we are not slaves or being held hostage. If someone really does not like their timeshare and it is ruining their quality of life, then they should sell it or give it away. You might say then they may be taking a loss. But that is better than hating your vacation provider. Vacations are supposed to be fun and reduce stress. But if it increases your stress, then get rid of it.




I've been seeing the "Love it or Leave It" mantra a lot lately from those benefiting from the changes directed at those who are frustrated at changes they didn't sign up for.

I am an owner with both Vistana and Marriott. In fact, I was Chairman with MVC and 5-Star with Vistana even before these changes, and I am also Lifetime Titanium for reasons unrelated to my MVC ownership. I liked both systems for different reasons and the combination gives us a lot of flexibility.  When we upgraded to 5-Star, we did so as informed buyers - our resale weeks were all mandatory, but we got other things that made the deal attractive to us at the time including some unique benefits unheard of at the time. In addition to those benefits, the perks of (free) December 31 Staroptions banking, and late-checkout were attractive - not the main reason to pull the trigger, buy they mattered. They even have nice thick 5-Star brochures like the one below highlighting those perks. I'm still ok with that purchase we made, but I do care about losing those benefits I actually paid for like December 31 banking and late checkout. It may seem minor, but I think most 5-Stars care because you couldn't get to 5-Star without paying for it somehow and somewhere along the way.

So, I can still like my ownership - nothing wrong with Chairman and having access to 35K+ points (maybe around 45K by the time they add HRA) at MFs of around $0.40, but I don't feel the need to be enamored with the vacation provider after they took my money and then literally killed some of the benefits they sold me. There could have handled it differently and kept those legacy benefits for 5-Star owners making home resort and Staroption bookings. It truly would have been "legacy" benefits affecting a shrinking population because there will be no new 5-Star owners. But I'll be happy to tell them that at every owner update from now on and use it as an excuse as to why I'm never buying from them again.


RIP - "5-Star"


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## capjak (Nov 30, 2022)

I converted my SVV 2 bedroom (81,000 SOs) to 2725 abound points.  I checked my MVC and they were already showing up.
Seems to be working smoothly so far....

On a side note:

Resort credit (not a good conversion eitherway, but  it's an option I have used in the past for expiring points).

81,000 Staroptions (9,000 SOs equals $110) equals $990 resort credit while if converting to 2725 (325 points = $110) you can get $880 plus a few points left over.

Also conversion to abound points, allows for the "Puck Trick" which is not available via Star options.


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## SDKath (Nov 30, 2022)

teddyo333 said:


> I think individuals believed that Abound inventory was dependent on the number of Vistana owners that converted to points. It appears as though Abound will have inventory available even if there is no conversion by Vistana owners. It will be interesting to see what that inventory is compromised of.


Hi all.  Just spoke to my very knowledgable SA of almost 15 years...  Inventory will come from 2 sources.  Sorry if this was stated earlier.  This is what I have heard from multiple sources before and confirmed again tonight. Will catch up on the rest of the thread now that things are live.

1) any conversions into Abound by Vistana owners
2) any unsold units that they choose to put into Abound

My biggest concern -- Abound people getting view time stamps in Hawaii at 13 months whereas owners like us cannot reserve until 12 months out!  WHAAAA?


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## KACTravels (Nov 30, 2022)

I have a silly question…we have only been Vistana owners and the Vistana Website does send us to the Marriott Vacation Club page and shows our Elite Level…but it seems like we have to actually create a new login for MVC?  Is that right?  How will they connect the 2 accounts?  I don’t want to create yet another online account if we don’t have to?


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## VacationForever (Nov 30, 2022)

capjak said:


> I converted my SVV 2 bedroom (81,000 SOs) to 2725 abound points.  I checked my MVC and they were already showing up.
> Seems to be working smoothly so far....
> 
> On a side note:
> ...


Actually 81K yields $990 resort credit.


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## timsi (Nov 30, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> If you buy into a timeshare, you need to go with the flow and expect changes. I think both MVC and Vistana are simple systems since I know how to use them. However, for both systems, I do not remember when to book. So I put a note on my online calendar and I send myself reminders the day before and the day of. Otherwise I would not remember when 12 months or 8 months is. Vistana might be simple but it is still hard to remember when to book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





TravelTime said:


> If you buy into a timeshare, you need to go with the flow and expect changes. I think both MVC and Vistana are simple systems since I know how to use them. However, for both systems, I do not remember when to book. So I put a note on my online calendar and I send myself reminders the day before and the day of. Otherwise I would not remember when 12 months or 8 months is. Vistana might be simple but it is still hard to remember when to book.
> 
> I got upset with my Chase Sapphire credit card company today and was close to canceling the airline reservation and the credit card. The things they said on the phone were totally ridiculous. Then I calmed down a bit and told myself it was not worth being upset. Plus the 4 tickets to Hawaii were free since I was using points. If I canceled everything, then we would need to outlay cash instead. So I called the airline directly, even though I was resentful to have to do this, and made my seat selections.
> 
> My point in the above story is many of these various points systems are complicated, frustrating and annoying. We choose to become members because we saw some benefit, at least in the beginning. But we are not slaves or being held hostage. If someone really does not like their timeshare and it is ruining their quality of life, then they should sell it or give it away. You might say then they may be taking a loss. But that is better than hating your vacation provider. Vacations are supposed to be fun and reduce stress. But if it increases your stress, then get rid of it.


If everyone who was unhappy with the IT and all the other issues in the last few years threw the towel and wanted to get rid of the ownership right away, the defaults would be through the roof and the resale prices would plummet. There is only so much the developers can sell so they cannot take back everything.  Be careful with what you wish for.

You have a valid point though, there is only so much time and effort one can invest into these ownerships, in the end if they make it too complicated, time consuming and the system seems unfair, there is no point in living in a dysfunctional relationship.


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## SDKath (Nov 30, 2022)

Actually non-owners should not be able to book at 12mo out either.  Owners should have at least a month or two to book before non-owners.


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## travelhacker (Nov 30, 2022)

Well crud. I just converted a week, but can't seem to search availability. 

Is search down for anyone else? I'm getting the following error:


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## SDKath (Nov 30, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> Well crud. I just converted a week, but can't seem to search availability.
> 
> Is search down for anyone else? I'm getting the following error:
> View attachment 69398


yup.  Down for me right now.  Probably trying to debug it....


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## bizaro86 (Dec 1, 2022)

SDKath said:


> Hi all.  Just spoke to my very knowledgable SA of almost 15 years...  Inventory will come from 2 sources.  Sorry if this was stated earlier.  This is what I have heard from multiple sources before and confirmed again tonight. Will catch up on the rest of the thread now that things are live.
> 
> 1) any conversions into Abound by Vistana owners
> 2) any unsold units that they choose to put into Abound
> ...



Biggest thing is any inventory from both (1) and (2) shouldn't be bookable by the exchange company until the start of the home resort period.


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## dsmrp (Dec 1, 2022)

capjak said:


> I converted my SVV 2 bedroom (81,000 SOs) to 2725 abound points.  I checked my MVC and they were already showing up.
> Seems to be working smoothly so far....
> 
> On a side note:
> ...



What is the "puck trick" (on the Marriott side) ? 
Thx!


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## ocdb8r (Dec 1, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> What is the "puck trick" (on the Marriott side) ?
> Thx!


Taking advantage of the last minute points discount that Executive Tier and above members receive.  For example, for Presidential tier you get a 30% discount on required points for any reservation made within 60 days.  If you have an existing reservation and within 60 days you see the same availability, you can call in and hold a new reservation, cancel your existing reservation, and receive back in your account the 30% points in a holding account (which permits them to be used on future reservations made within 60 days).  

In short, a way of stretching your points by taking advantage of the last minute discounts (which VSN does not offer).


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## DanCali (Dec 1, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> What is the "puck trick" (on the Marriott side) ?
> Thx!






ocdb8r said:


> Taking advantage of the last minute points discount that Executive Tier and above members receive.  For example, for Presidential tier you get a 30% discount on required points for any reservation made within 60 days.  If you have an existing reservation and within 60 days you see the same availability, you can call in and hold a new reservation, cancel your existing reservation, and receive back in your account the 30% points in a holding account (which permits them to be used on future reservations made within 60 days).
> 
> In short, a way of stretching your points by taking advantage of the last minute discounts (which VSN does not offer).




This seems like an obvious strategy to me. I never was quite sure why a (former?) tugger got the honor of getting it named after him.  

But I suspect his handle had a lot do to with it. If either of you were the ones to mention it first, it probably would not be called the "ocd Trick" or "dsm Trick"


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

SDKath said:


> Hi all.  Just spoke to my very knowledgable SA of almost 15 years...  Inventory will come from 2 sources.  Sorry if this was stated earlier.  This is what I have heard from multiple sources before and confirmed again tonight. Will catch up on the rest of the thread now that things are live.
> 
> 1) any conversions into Abound by Vistana owners
> 2) *any unsold units that they choose to put into Abound*
> ...



I know this has been beaten to the beyond but your second point is one of the reasons why many who benefited from the VSN were not happy or skeptical on the intentions of Marriott. Some of Those units would have been put into the VSN for 8 month reservations using star options, now it will all be placed into the Abound exchange. To those who use the system they bought into, this is a valid concern, not to mention the perks most elites lost. People are upset and unfortunately as @DanCali said, they are being forced to accept it with this “love it or leave it” mantra.

I’m hoping I can still get WSJ and HRA in the VSN without having to convert to Abound Club Points. If I need to convert and play in Abound exchange then so be it. Unfortunately the Abound exchange greatly reduces my point to MF ratio since I can stretch my SO much further than ACP’s.

It’s not all doom and gloom for me, I am looking forward to being able to short stays in some of the Florida Marriott resorts AND the free interval exchanges!


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

Anyone else not seeing some of their ownerships eligible for conversion? I have two resale units that I do not see as eligible when they should be. The post 8/9 resale however says that it’s not eligible.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m hoping I can still get WSJ and HRA in the VSN without having to convert to Abound Club Points.


For the time being no worries on HRA as they haven't figured out how to cram it into Abound yet...


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> For the time being no worries on HRA as they haven't figured out how to cram it into Abound yet...


I’ll get a year out of it, only issue is, I don’t need any reservations at HRA this year haha


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

DanCali said:


> I've been seeing the "Love it or Leave It" mantra a lot lately from those benefiting from the changes directed at those who are frustrated at changes they didn't sign up for.



I am not promoting Love It or Leave It.  I am just saying if you hate something, do not ruin your life whining about it, threatening to sue, coming up with conspiracy theories, reading volumes of legal documents, etc. Take control. Do what you can to be happy with what you have. It is like a wife who always complains about her husband but stays in the relationship with no changes. At least come to some agreement about how to live together and how to live your own life while married if you will not separate or divorce.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

SDKath said:


> Hi all.  Just spoke to my very knowledgable SA of almost 15 years...  Inventory will come from 2 sources.  Sorry if this was stated earlier.  This is what I have heard from multiple sources before and confirmed again tonight. Will catch up on the rest of the thread now that things are live.
> 
> 1) any conversions into Abound by Vistana owners
> 2) any unsold units that they choose to put into Abound
> ...



You should not be able to reserve Vistana inventory until 12 months out. If people are seeing this, then it could be a bug. Marriott does not use time stamps. So if you want a time stamp, you should book with Vistana unless Vistana changes this too. Marriott usually calls or emails me the week before and asks me what I want and then they try to match it to the best of their ability.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> Well crud. I just converted a week, but can't seem to search availability.
> 
> Is search down for anyone else? I'm getting the following error:
> View attachment 69398



I think the system still has bugs. Generally, I have been able to search but sometimes it does not let me.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Taking advantage of the last minute points discount that Executive Tier and above members receive.  For example, for Presidential tier you get a 30% discount on required points for any reservation made within 60 days.  If you have an existing reservation and within 60 days you see the same availability, you can call in and hold a new reservation, cancel your existing reservation, and receive back in your account the 30% points in a holding account (which permits them to be used on future reservations made within 60 days).
> 
> In short, a way of stretching your points by taking advantage of the last minute discounts (which VSN does not offer).



Don’t you need to cancel at day 59 and re-book on day 60 for this to work? Isn’t that a bit risky? Or is there another way to do the puck trick?


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## cubigbird (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am not promoting Love It or Leave It.  I am just saying if you hate something, do not ruin your life whining about it, threatening to sue, coming up with conspiracy theories, reading volumes of legal documents, etc. Take control. Do what you can to be happy with what you have. It is like a wife who always complains about her husband but stays in the relationship with no changes. At least come to some agreement about how to live together and how to live your own life while married if you will not separate or divorce.


I think all of this just drives home the importance of “owning where you want to go.”  We own where we want to go, and we use what we own, where, and when we own so these “changes” are less of an effect for us.  Will we use Abound?  Maybe, but not until we can do due diligence and find ways to receive value.  Converting to club points and losing time or benefits through a skim isn’t value.  We will just continue to use our ownerships as the contract grants.


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## YYJMSP (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> The problem with this roll out is it is not really a roll out. There has been no announcement. Everyone is confused and speculating. Those of us in the “know” are booking inventory early and by the time they formally announce, there may not be much inventory left for the late adopters. I was lucky that what I wanted to do worked smoothly. I am really lucky I read TUG and found out that Abound was live.


I got an email with subject "View Your New Owner Benefit Level and Election Value" from "The Marriott Vacation Clubs" mid-day Wed that happens to say "ABOUND IS NOW LIVE" in the body along with some minimal info.

i would call that an official announcement, just not a very obvious/good one...


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

YYJMSP said:


> I got an email with subject "View Your New Owner Benefit Level and Election Value" from "The Marriott Vacation Clubs" mid-day Wed that happens to say "ABOUND IS NOW LIVE" in the body along with some minimal info.
> 
> i would call that an official announcement, just not a very obvious/good one...



I did not get an email. I seem to not be receiving many emails.


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## zjhasan1976 (Dec 1, 2022)

I guess website can't handle the load?


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Maybe I am missing your point. The way I see it is that Marritott owns the inventory and they chose to deposit into Abound just like any other owner. I am agreeing with you. So why is this against the rules?


You are indeed missing the point. The "developer" is not given any special booking rights, or I could not find any, in the Vistana governing documents. Vistana, Marriott, MVC trust and so on are just owners like everyone else. This is true for any of the inventory they own, whether they rent out for $$$ or they want to make it available to Abound. The owners, regardless of the status have to compete for all the units during the home resort reservation period. These are the rules, whether you care about them or not. How come Abound can book in advance weeks that are not available to the resort owners?  To make it worse, by doing so they also break the rule that mentions that during the home resort reservation period the exchangers do not have priority. Can you please tell me how  49, 50, 51 and 52 2023 Vistana weeks ended up Yesterday in Abound? I cannot check now, Vistana is currently down.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

I suspect much of the seeding of initial investory is combing from multiple sources. Owners electing VOIs for points, owners that converted their VOIs to Bonvoy points or even in some cases owners that deposited to II (MVC will move inventory around to meet expected demands). There may also be unsolf Westin, Sheraton and Eventuras Flex inventory they can use to make certain resorts available. I believe there were a few other sources mentioned when MVC initially rolled out DC in 2010, but not all of the inventory we are seeing is necessarily owner or even Marriott owned inventory.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Don’t you need to cancel at day 59 and re-book on day 50 for this to work? Isn’t that a bit risky? Or is there another way to do the puck trick?


I'm not sure where you get day 59 or day 50 from.  The key dates for the discount are booking 60 days or less.  The main point of the "Puck Trick" was to be able to get points back with zero risk.  In this case, you use an existing reservation for which within 60 days or less you find the same availability.  You can call owner services and they will hold that availability before canceling your existing reservation, then cancel and use the canceled points to confirm the reservation they held, netting you back 25% or 30% of your points in a holding account (meaning they are restricted to being used for other reservations only within the 60-day window).

What you may be referring to some jokingly called the "Pucker Trick" whereby at day 61 you cancel your reservation (resulting in all your points being returned to your account with no restrictions) on the basis of availability on that day and then hope the availability remains until the next day (day 60) when you could book at the discount....during which time while you wait in anticipation you may "pucker" a bit.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I don't think it's as simple as saying Marriott is grabbing up the best weeks to give them to Abound.  There is definitely some sort of inventory management going on.  My (pure speculation) based on about an hour of searching in Abound is that *immediate availability is clearly tied to inventory MVC owns/controls* and perhaps even the inventory that has been directly added to the DP points trust.
> 
> What leads me to think there's something like this going on?  There is not a single Westin Nanea or Westin Los Cabos week available at any time that is currently searchable in Abound.  Yet there is a TON of availability at Los Cabos in VSN (and keep in mind, this is a destination MVC has no resort in so I would imagine they would want to try to make some availability here) and there is even sporadic availability in VSN for Nanea.
> 
> What do these resorts have in common?  They were never sold as weeks and as such MVC has had no opportunity to scoop up resales and dump them in the DP trust for direct Abound usage.  Everything for these two resorts is in a committed points trust (which likely makes it more difficult (maybe not possible) for Marriott to shift actual ownership into the DP trust).


How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.


From what I understand, about 25% of Lagunamar is in Aventuras. Technically they could use all unsold or Marriott owned Aventuras HomeOptions to allocate a bunch of Lagunamar to Abound and not as much Cabo or Cancun Resort & Spa to Abound. They can shift and shuffle what they need in and out of Abounda s needed.


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## NJDave (Dec 1, 2022)

DanCali said:


> This seems like an obvious strategy to me. I never was quite sure why a (former?) tugger got the honor of getting it named after him.
> 
> But I suspect his handle had a lot do to with it. If either of you were the ones to mention it first, it probably would not be called the "ocd Trick" or "dsm Trick"



It could have been called the OCD Trick because some of us Tuggers are OCD about getting the most out of our points. .  I am Executive Level with the combination with Vistana.  I will certainly be looking to use this strategy now that I'm eligible.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.


Read the whole post; because they would own/control via the Aventuras and Nanea trusts - such ownerships cannot be directly added to the DP Trust (they have to be added via the "exchange" mechanism they've created.  Lagunamar was 75% sold as weeks and not via a trust.  As was posted in another thread, MVC has been deeding many Vistana weeks it owns directly into the DP Trust.  I'm not saying they won't be able to eventually shift inventory into Abound, just that it likely requires a bit more behind the scenes maneuvering.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> From what I understand, about 25% of Lagunamar is in Aventuras. Technically they could use all unsold or Marriott owned Aventuras HomeOptions to allocate a bunch of Lagunamar to Abound and not as much Cabo or Cancun Resort & Spa to Abound. They can shift and shuffle what they need in and out of Abounda s needed.


"Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Read the whole post; because they would own/control via the Aventuras and Nanea trusts - such ownerships cannot be directly added to the DP Trust (they have to be added via the "exchange" mechanism they've created.  Lagunamar was 75% sold as weeks and not via a trust.  As was posted in another thread, MVC has been deeding many Vistana weeks it owns directly into the DP Trust.  I'm not saying they won't be able to eventually shift inventory into Abound, just that it likely requires a bit more behind the scenes maneuvering.


I did not see any other Vistana inventory conveyed to the trust aside for the 3 resorts mentioned few months ago (August) by Dioxide45, and Lagunamar and many others available through Abound were not among them.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I'm not sure where you get day 59 or day 50 from.  The key dates for the discount are booking 60 days or less.  The main point of the "Puck Trick" was to be able to get points back with zero risk.  In this case, you use an existing reservation for which within 60 days or less you find the same availability.  You can call owner services and they will hold that availability before canceling your existing reservation, then cancel and use the canceled points to confirm the reservation they held, netting you back 25% or 30% of your points in a holding account (meaning they are restricted to being used for other reservations only within the 60-day window).
> 
> What you may be referring to some jokingly called the "Pucker Trick" whereby at day 61 you cancel your reservation (resulting in all your points being returned to your account with no restrictions) on the basis of availability on that day and then hope the availability remains until the next day (day 60) when you could book at the discount....during which time while you wait in anticipation you may "pucker" a bit.



I meant day 60. So you can hold inventory on day 60 and re-book? I thought that was not allowed. Would it would be allowed since the points would go into holding and then use the holding points to rebook at the 60 day mark? Is that the strategy?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> "Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.


Time to get your screen shots and get your legal team ready. That will be your only source of remedy. Hashing out the same stuff now (post Abount go live) as you did pre-go live won’t get you anywhere to a solution.


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

YYJMSP said:


> I got an email with subject "View Your New Owner Benefit Level and Election Value" from "The Marriott Vacation Clubs" mid-day Wed that happens to say "ABOUND IS NOW LIVE" in the body along with some minimal info.
> 
> i would call that an official announcement, just not a very obvious/good one...


A lot of people never received such email, myself included. Luckily I had an inkling that the rollout was happening yesterday so I checked at 6:30am when the vistana site was supposed to be up from “some much needed R&R”. It was then pushed to 8:45am, I signed on at that time to see that Abound was up!


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I meant day 60. So you can hold inventory on day 60 and re-book? I thought that was not allowed. Would it would be allowed since the points would go into holding and then use the holding points to rebook at the 60 day mark? Is that the strategy?



Exactly.  There is nothing in the rules preventing you from canceling your reservation on day 60 (or less) EXCEPT that such cancelations put the points in the holding account that can only be used for other reservations within 60 days.  The "trick" part of it all is that Owner Services will (normally) hold the new reservation for you BEFORE you cancel the existing reservation, thus reducing the risk to nil.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> A lot of people never received such email, myself included. Luckily I had an inkling that the rollout was happening yesterday so I checked at 6:30am when the vistana site was supposed to be up from “some much needed R&R”. It was then pushed to 8:45am, I signed on at that time to see that Abound was up!



I found out through Tug and looked at inventory to add 3N in Maui to my existing 9N MOC reservation since I had been planning to stay at a hotel for the extra 3N. I searched at 9 am and only 4 months out (which is usually impossible for booking for Maui inventory esp 2BR OF like I really preferred) and saw that 2BR OV was available at WKOVRN and there were other good options at WKOVR. Then I called Vistana to help me elect points. Then I called Marriott to book the 2BR and one was still available. Actually when I first looked, the 2BR OV was available but when I called, they had 2BR OF available so I preferred that and booked it. I called rather than do everything online just to make sure I did not do anything wrong since it was day 1 of the launch.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.


I can understand you may feel that some owners are more negative than they should be, based on your own interests and opinion. But it is pretty funny to conclude Abound is pretty popular among the Vistana owners (about 250,000 owners) based on few FB comments.


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.


Of course people were going to convert immediately. You can’t really go by 10-15 people on tug who didn’t want to elect to convert as proof that Abound wouldn’t be popular. You’re reading that many people are converting…. Are those the same people who said that they would never convert? I’d convert if I wanted something out of the VSN. 

The negative things from many tuggers was more about where the inventory was going and the frustration regarding the way the usage of their ownerships was changing. You were one of the “love it or leave it” mantra folks. You have your thoughts on the program and others have theirs.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

-


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I found out through Tug and looked at inventory to add 3N in Maui to my existing 9N MOC reservation since I had been planning to stay at a hotel for the extra 3N. I searched at 9 am and only 4 months out (which is usually impossible for booking for Maui inventory esp 2BR OF like I really preferred) and saw that 2BR OV was available at WKOVRN and there were other good options at WKOVR. Then I called Vistana to help me elect points. Then I called Marriott to book the 2BR and one was still available. Actually when I first looked, the 2BR OV was available but when I called, they had 2BR OF available so I preferred that and booked it. I called rather than do everything online just to make sure I did not do anything wrong since it was day 1 of the launch.


That’s a great booking! Congrats! But Think about that…. OF 2 bedroom at WKORV in Abound at rollout and only 4 months out…. That unit has been extremely difficult (not impossible) to get at 8 months in the VSN. This lends credence to the “conspiracy theories” that Marriott would put some of the best inventory in Abound.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> CPNY said:
> 
> 
> > That’s a great booking! Congrats! But Think about that…. OF 2 bedroom at WKORV in Abound at rollout and only 4 months out…. That unit has been extremely difficult (not impossible) to get at 8 months in the VSN. This lends credence to the “conspiracy theories” that Marriott would put some of the best inventory in Abound.



Either there is a lot of great inventory in Abound, or Tuggers just have sheer luck finding Training weeks at WKV, oceanfront in Maui etc. I guess it was just pure luck for Traveltime, no other 3 oceanfront nights were available, except those 3. 

Or maybe the "conspiracy theories" were upgraded to reality two hours after Abound became functional.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Interesting that there is no discussion of the Abound launch on the Marriott board here. Since there is Vistana inventory available, I would think the Marriott only folks would be discussing this topic too.


Again, Abound isn't a "launch" for Marriott owners. A notice has been on our website for months that says Abound is the new name of the program we've been using for a decade-plus, formerly known as the Destination Club.

And yes, a thread about the integration of Vistana/the ability of Marriott Abound members to book into Vistana resorts was opened yesterday on the TUG Marriott forum: Westin / Sheraton properties are now available to book for MVC owners!


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Anyone else not seeing some of their ownerships eligible for conversion? I have two resale units that I do not see as eligible when they should be. The post 8/9 resale however says that it’s not eligible.



Under “What I Own” on the Vistana website it now shows the Club Points associated with the VOI.

What does it show for your weeks?

While our Ownership qualifies for Chairman’s Club based on the MVC CPs values - the number of CPs they have for me is off by 6,350 points.
(15,675 CPs vs 22,025 CPs)
I wonder why? Including our previous WSJ weeks?

Also, based on the MF/CP - it looks like WKV P+ has a slightly better value (0.44/CP) than WKORV OFD (0.45/CP).

I assume that WKORV OFC and WKORVN OF has even a better MF/CP value due to lower MFs. 

I wonder if there are other Vistana VOIs that offer similar values?

It would be good to see these actual values for various VSN VOIs now that 2023 MFs and associated CPs have been published.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> "Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.


None of us knows if that pre-booking is the process that Marriott uses to manipulate intervals via the Abound Exchange Company. I happen to think that's not what they do, that the system is designed to book all reservations in realtime with all intervals coded in such a way that the rights of owners, members and Marriott aren't violated (Post #36.) But regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, just getting to the point where you know for sure how the system works is going to take some legal wrangling that will force you to be prepared for Marriott to push back using any and every legal process available to them. Good luck!


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## ConejoRed (Dec 1, 2022)

Noticed they added 2025 to the list of options to elect points (was not there on Monday).  I assume if I elected now, that would immediately release our fixed week 20 for that year and I wonder what would happen if I elected 2025, but not 2023.  Do the 2025 points then become available to "borrow" against... skipping 2024 (haven't released the fixed week yet) etc.?


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> Again, Abound isn't a "launch" for Marriott owners. A notice has been on our website for months that says Abound is the new name of the program we've been using for a decade-plus, formerly known as the Destination Club.
> 
> And yes, a thread about the integration of Vistana/the ability of Marriott Abound members to book into Vistana resorts was opened yesterday on the TUG Marriott forum: Westin / Sheraton properties are now available to book for MVC owners!



I saw it and posted yesterday. I must have amnesia! LOL


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> That’s a great booking! Congrats! But Think about that…. OF 2 bedroom at WKORV in Abound at rollout and only 4 months out…. That unit has been extremely difficult (not impossible) to get at 8 months in the VSN. This lends credence to the “conspiracy theories” that Marriott would put some of the best inventory in Abound.



The Abound program is the new program. I would assume they will put all the inventory they own into Abound going forward. Like others have said, if Marriott is the owner, they can elect points into Abound just like any other owner. I understand this is terrible for Vistana but it makes sense and it is fair IMHO since they are an owner.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Of course people were going to convert immediately. You can’t really go by 10-15 people on tug who didn’t want to elect to convert as proof that Abound wouldn’t be popular. You’re reading that many people are converting…. Are those the same people who said that they would never convert? I’d convert if I wanted something out of the VSN.
> 
> The negative things from many tuggers was more about where the inventory was going and the frustration regarding the way the usage of their ownerships was changing. You were one of the “love it or leave it” mantra folks. You have your thoughts on the program and others have theirs.



I am a resourceful and try to use my timeshares in the way it works for me which is not always the cheapest or most efficient way. I am not a “Love It or Leave It” person because the word “Love” is inaccurate. If you read some of my posts about this mantra, you will see I do not mean you must “Love” Abound, Marriott, Vistana or any other system. Just do not ruin your mental health over it.

I believe you need to expect changes and go with the flow. I said if these changes are making you miserable, then why stay a timeshare owner? Also we all know timeshares are difficult to use. People say Vistana is easy LOL.

I keep repeating myself and people are assuming, interpreting, etc what I say and leaving out that I do not “Love” my timeshares. In fact, I have sold many of them. I have sold about 10 contracts or so and I am definitely not purchasing anymore. I “like” the remaining ones but knowing what I know now, I would not have purchased them at all. One reason I like Abound is because now I do not need to keep up with the rules of two separate timeshare systems other than to elect my SOs every year. Now I only own 2 timeshare systems: Abound and FSA.

Even FSA is questionable to me in terms of owning but it is super easy because there are not many options for using it . It is a double edged sword bc I wish I could internally trade into other Four Seasons. I have only been to FSA once and I have been depositing into ThirdHome, Elite Alliance and II. I am done with EliteAlliance and II because it is too hard to get good trades. I got a few through EA but it was hard to get. This year, I deposited both weeks into ThirdHome.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> The Abound program is the new program. I would assume they will put all the inventory they own into Abound going forward. Like others have said, if Marriott is the owner, they can elect points into Abound just like any other owner. I understand this is terrible for Vistana but it makes sense and it is fair IMHO since they are an owner.


If it can be said that the Vistana/Abound integration is terrible for Vistana owners because some Vistana inventory will be used by Marriott Abound members, can't the same be said that it's terrible for Marriott owners because some Marriott inventory will be used by Vistana members?

But I just don't understand all the negativity over what is basically another exchange option. Since the Destination Club was introduced in 2010 I've been thinking of, and looking forward to, the now-named Abound Exchange Company being the simple conduit for direct access to non-Marriott-branded timeshares! My pipe dream is that Disney eventually chooses to play in the Abound sandbox, which I know is about as long a shot as a long shot can be.


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## YYJMSP (Dec 1, 2022)

The Abound by Marriott Vacations exchange program is now live.

The Abound by Marriott Vacations™ exchange program is now live. ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌





​
ABOUND IS NOW LIVEA more fulfilling vacation life starts here. Through your membership in the Vistana Signature Network® (VSN), you now have more direct access to Marriott Vacation Club® resorts and thousands of unique travel experiences — all through Abound by Marriott Vacations™ using the shared currency of Club Points.
​

NEW INFORMATION AND HELPFUL TOOLS
Ready for more? Log in to *vistana.com/abound* to:

View the Club Points election value of your Vacation Ownership Interests (VOIs).
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Elect to receive Club Points for your eligible 2023 VOIs.




MORE TO EXPLOREAs a complement to how you use your vacation ownership today, the Abound exchange program simply gives you more choices. You can now elect to receive Club Points, which gives you access across an expanded collection of 90+ premium resorts and city properties around the globe. Plus, you can explore thousands more of the world’s best travel experiences.





Explore more from the heart of *vibrant cities* like New York City and San Francisco.





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Embark on *more travel experiences*, including cruises, hotels, and guided tours to name a few.





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DO MORE WITH CLUB POINTSYou can now elect to receive Club Points using your eligible 2023 VOIs. As an exception, you may elect to receive Club Points until December 31, 2022.* If you have a reservation using Home Options or StarOptions® in 2023, you can cancel it and elect to receive Club Points.** To cancel those reservations, the election transaction must occur at least 61 days in advance of the check-in date of your reservation. 

Learn more about your new Owner benefits on your Owner Dashboard. Also, VSN® members previously at the 3-, 4-, or 5-Star Elite levels by August 9, 2022, were grandfathered in to the same or potentially higher Marriott Bonvoy® Elite level.



Visit *your Owner Dashboard* to elect to receive Club Points and learn more about your Owner benefit level.​










* Beginning in 2023, the regular election deadlines will apply. The election deadline is September 30 of the previous year for Owners at the Owner, Select, and Executive benefit levels. The deadline is October 31 of the previous year for Owners at the Presidential and Chairman's Club benefit levels. 

** Banked and borrowed StarOptions are not eligible to elect to receive Club Points in 2023. 

Owners of Vacation Ownership Interests (VOIs) at The Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas and Harborside Resort at Atlantis will not initially have the option to elect to receive Club Points when it becomes available to VSN members. That option will be available only after their reservation systems are upgraded, which we anticipate will occur in 2023. Until that time, other Owners may not reserve stays at these resorts using Club Points.

©2022 Marriott Vacation Club International. All Rights Reserved. Marriott Vacation Club International and the programs and products provided under the Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, Grand Residences by Marriott, and The Ritz-Carlton Club brands are not owned, developed, or sold by Marriott International, Inc. Marriott Vacation Club International uses the Marriott marks under license from Marriott International, Inc. and its affiliates. 

*Privacy Statement* | *Terms & Conditions* | *State & Legal Disclosures* | 22-103-1748731


----------



## Bob1946 (Dec 1, 2022)

I am a VSN owner, but not a MVC owner.  Considering whether to elect club points.  I want to stay at KORN and Nanea.  I know how many club points I would get, but not how many weeks that will buy me at KORN or Nanea.

I cannot access the part of the MVC site that would tell me how many club points are needed to rent KORN or Nanea.  I cannot find a table online.  Can someone post how many points it takes to rent KORN and Nanea?


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 1, 2022)

@Bob1946 -- Try this.


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## Bob1946 (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> If it can be said that the Vistana/Abound integration is terrible for Vistana owners because some Vistana inventory will be used by Marriott Abound members, can't the same be said that it's terrible for Marriott owners because some Marriott inventory will be used by Vistana members?
> 
> But I just don't understand all the negativity over what is basically another exchange option. Since the Destination Club was introduced in 2010 I've been thinking of, and looking forward to, the now-named Abound Exchange Company being the simple conduit for direct access to non-Marriott-branded timeshares! My pipe dream is that Disney eventually chooses to play in the Abound sandbox, which I know is about as long a shot as a long shot can be.


"But I just don't understand all the negativity"?

Most of the posts on this site as regards VSN are negative.  So anything new will generate mainly negative posts.


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## Bob1946 (Dec 1, 2022)

vacationtime1 said:


> @Bob1946 -- Try this.


i *HEART* you!


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> None of us knows if that pre-booking is the process that Marriott uses to manipulate intervals via the Abound Exchange Company. I happen to think that's not what they do, that the system is designed to book all reservations in realtime with all intervals coded in such a way that the rights of owners, members and Marriott aren't violated (Post #36.) But regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, just getting to the point where you know for sure how the system works is going to take some legal wrangling that will force you to be prepared for Marriott to push back using any and every legal process available to them. Good luck!


In my book, if a rule is violated ( a non owner has access to a week during a period when only owners should have access, according to the governing documents) the rest are details we can discuss here but do not have a lot of relevance in other venues. I really don't care how they design the system. Also it is naive for some to believe in the "access " theory. Yesterday for example there was inventory at WKV and many other Vistana resorts that was just not available in VSN to the resort owners or exchangers.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 1, 2022)

Does anyone have a non-conspiracy explanation as to how Marriott accumulated all of the 2023 WKORV OF units which are being made available in Abound?  It seems unlikely that Marriott owns that many OF weeks, any weeks turned into StarOptions should belong to VSN (not Abound), and because the system didn't launch until this week, OF owners could not have elected points.

I don't like conspiracy theories, but I cannot figure out where this inventory originated.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> In my book, if a rule is violated ( a non owner has access to a week during a period when only owners should have access, according to the governing documents) the rest are details we can discuss here but do not have a lot of relevance in other venues. I really don't care how they design the system. Also it is naive for some to believe in the "access " theory. Yesterday for example there was inventory at WKV and many other Vistana resorts that was just not available in VSN to the resort owners or exchangers.


Well, I guess "naive" is a little bit better than the utter lack of knowledge you've ascribed to Marriott owners in some of your many other threads on the topic, so I'll take it.   

Aside: I'm noticing that you're having some difficulty with replies after the system update Brian did the other day, with your response text ending up in the quoted section instead of below it. I only mention it because I've edited a few to correct it, and the first time seeing the new format confused me, too! When you reply the prompt should be outside the quote box.


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## Red elephant (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> In my book, if a rule is violated ( a non owner has access to a week during a period when only owners should have access, according to the governing documents) the rest are details we can discuss here but do not have a lot of relevance in other venues. I really don't care how they design the system. Also it is naive for some to believe in the "access " theory. Yesterday for example there was inventory at WKV and many other Vistana resorts that was just not available in VSN to the resort owners or exchangers.


If Marriott owns WKV (which I know they do as they tried to sell it to me) then they can put it in Abound so maybe that’s why it was available .


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

vacationtime1 said:


> Does anyone have a non-conspiracy explanation as to how Marriott accumulated all of the 2023 WKORV OF units which are being made available in Abound? It seems unlikely that Marriott owns that many OF weeks, any weeks turned into StarOptions should belong to VSN (not Abound), and because the system didn't launch until this week, OF owners could not have elected points.
> 
> I don't like conspiracy theories, but I cannot figure out where this inventory originated.



It could be that during the HR reservation period earlier this year - they were having issues with their IT merger and ended up with prime weeks.

Examples at exactly 12 months:
It was tough to get our OFD studio reserved last Feb (never the case before), and…
Then almost impossible to get our 1Bd WKV in early March. Had to settle for Fri-Fri where never had issues for either of these in past 10+ years.

I posted about this - and contact with MVC Consumer Advocacy Dept - last March.

Also - MVC offered multiple 1Bd WKORV OV nights during prime whale watching times in 2023 as a special invitation to Owners for 90K SOs (I am doing this). This is pure Marriott Marketing as this reservation shows on BonVoy site but not Vistana site.
How did they get these as well?

Just so happens at same times they were having IT issues.

I will give them a break as I got my 2023 usage. If it happens again? Then there will be lots of noise. Not unlike the WSJ Thread (Part 1)…



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DanCali (Dec 1, 2022)

vacationtime1 said:


> Does anyone have a non-conspiracy explanation as to how Marriott accumulated all of the 2023 WKORV OF units which are being made available in Abound?  It seems unlikely that Marriott owns that many OF weeks, any weeks turned into StarOptions should belong to VSN (not Abound), and because the system didn't launch until this week, OF owners could not have elected points.
> 
> I don't like conspiracy theories, but I cannot figure out where this inventory originated.



"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

- Spock


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> The Abound program is the new program. I would assume they will put all the inventory they own into Abound going forward. Like others have said, if Marriott is the owner, they can elect points into Abound just like any other owner. I understand this is terrible for Vistana but it makes sense and it is fair IMHO since they are an owner.


So then vistana owners also have a right to be angry and not be labeled conspiracy theorists. If a vistana owner bought into vistana with the ability to book in network at 8 months they have a right to be upset that there won’t be much inventory in the VSN for network reservations.

Some people plan 8 months in advance, the Marriott points system operates much different with a whole new set of owners who book 12 months in advance. It drastically changes the way someone uses their ownership. Let’s not forget how sales people sold the vistana product.

I’m all for the abound exchange, so long as the inventory that belongs in the VSN actually stays in the VSN.


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## The Haileys (Dec 1, 2022)

Can anyone else access the Vistana site or Dashboard right now?


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## GoPokes! (Dec 1, 2022)

The Haileys said:


> Can anyone else access the Vistana site or Dashboard right now?
> 
> View attachment 69432


It's down for me as well.


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## sponger76 (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So then vistana owners also have a right to be angry and not be labeled conspiracy theorists. If a vistana owner bought into vistana with the ability to book in network at 8 months they have a right to be upset that there won’t be much inventory in the VSN for network reservations.
> 
> Some people plan 8 months in advance, the Marriott points system operates much different with a whole new set of owners who book 12 months in advance. It drastically changes the way someone uses their ownership. Let’s not forget how sales people sold the vistana product.
> 
> I’m all for the abound exchange, so long as the inventory that belongs in the VSN actually stays in the VSN.


I am definitely not happy that there were people able to book Vistana properties in Abound 12+ months out, before owners even have the opportunity in VSN. That definitely isn't right, and anyone who wants to call MVC out on that, I support their efforts.

However, while I'd rather have access via VSN I can understand how there might not be much inventory at 8 months for StarOptions use. In a worst-case scenario, imagine owners in a particular resort either all reserve their weeks or elect them into Abound more than 8 months out. Not great for me if I want to go there using my StarOptions, but that is their right.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> So then vistana owners also have a right to be angry and not be labeled conspiracy theorists. If a vistana owner bought into vistana with the ability to book in network at 8 months they have a right to be upset that there won’t be much inventory in the VSN for network reservations.
> 
> Some people plan 8 months in advance, the Marriott points system operates much different with a whole new set of owners who book 12 months in advance. It drastically changes the way someone uses their ownership. Let’s not forget how sales people sold the vistana product.
> 
> I’m all for the abound exchange, so long as the inventory that belongs in the VSN actually stays in the VSN.



The inventory that belongs in VSN will stay in VSN. That is the owner inventory that do not elect points. Why not be angry at the owners who elect points too? They will be diminishing VSN inventory. Marriott is an owner and can elect points too.


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## luv_maui (Dec 1, 2022)

I elected club points for WKORV.  But no points showed.  I called and they told me they see I tried to elect club points but there was an IT issue hold up so I could back out or did I really want to move forward.  I said move forward, and was told IT will try to get my club points into my account within 24 hours.


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## DanCali (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> The inventory that belongs in VSN will stay in VSN. That is the owner inventory that do not elect points. Why not be angry at the owners who elect points too? They will be diminishing VSN inventory. Marriott is an owner and can elect points too.



Marriott may acquire some things on ROFR here and there, but definitely not WKV, where they have no ROFR at all. And whatever they have via foreclosure or other means should most likely be in the Westin Flex trust, no? They were selling Flex until now...

Yet I can see that I can book some December dates that are 12.5 months out (that's Gold season). I can't do that in Vistana even if I owned in that season!

Does Marriott really already own a bunch of WKV Gold weeks that they can't acquire at ROFR and are not in Westin Flex? Without transparency we'll never know but lack of transparency inevitably leads to conspiracy theories. Their own brochures say you can book Vistana at 12 months out...


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## kozykritter (Dec 1, 2022)

DanCali said:


> Marriott may acquire some things on ROFR here and there, but definitely not WKV, where they have no ROFR at all. And whatever they have via foreclosure or other means should most likely be in the Westin Flex trust, no? They were selling Flex until now...
> 
> Yet I can see that I can book some December dates that are 12.5 months out (that's Gold season). I can't do that in Vistana even if I owned in that season!
> 
> ...


Dioxide can confirm but I'll pretty sure they haven't conveyed WKV to the Westin Flex trust in the past few years. It's not an automatic thing when an ownership ends up coming back to Vistana/Marriott, of course.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

DanCali said:


> Marriott may acquire some things on ROFR here and there, but definitely not WKV, where they have no ROFR at all. And whatever they have via foreclosure or other means should most likely be in the Westin Flex trust, no? They were selling Flex until now...
> 
> Yet I can see that I can book some December dates that are 12.5 months out (that's Gold season). I can't do that in Vistana even if I owned in that season!
> 
> ...



It is odd they are letting people book before 12 months. Is this happening across all Vistana properties? Could it be a bug? They announced 12 months so that is the policy. There are sometimes bugs in the system. Someone reported that sometimes Marriott inventory is released a few days before. I have never experienced this but others have.


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## cubigbird (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> It is odd they are letting people book before 12 months. Is this happening across all Vistana properties? Could it be a bug? They announced 12 months so that is the policy. There are sometimes bugs in the system. Someone reported that sometimes Marriott inventory is released a few days before. I have never experienced this but others have.


If this is the case and it frontruns owner 12 month home resort reservation period they are going to have to cancel reservations.


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## HankW (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> The inventory that belongs in VSN will stay in VSN. That is the owner inventory that do not elect points. Why not be angry at the owners who elect points too? They will be diminishing VSN inventory. Marriott is an owner and can elect points too.


After all the reading, IMO the question is: If MVC-owned VSN inventory can be offered to MVC owners at 13 months versus following the Vistana rule which is 12 months? IMO, if MVC owns VSN, the earliest it can be used/offered to MVC players is 12 months. Trying to get some clarity on this. Thanks.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 1, 2022)

HankW said:


> After all the reading, IMO the question is: If MVC-owned VSN inventory can be offered to MVC owners at 13 months versus following the Vistana rule which is 12 months? IMO, if MVC owns VSN, the earliest it can be used/offered to MVC players is 12 months. Trying to get some clarity on this. Thanks.


NO. Regardless of who owns the inventory (Marriott or an individual owner) the inventory can only be booked once released by a Vistana owner and then placed in the MVC pool. The Vistana rules are 12 months for a home reservation. The MVC rules are 13 months. So for example if i know right now i am not going to use my April 2024 unit and i elect for MVC points now, it will be moved to the MVC pool and available to book in the MVC pool March 2023, but if someone at that home resort wants to book, they must wait until April 2023 to book in the Vistana pool, because their unit never left the Vistana pool of inventory.


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## kozykritter (Dec 1, 2022)

Is anyone else getting this message when they go through the Vistana.com site to check their Club Point balance?  It showed this message yesterday before I elected any Club Points and still shows it after the election was confirmed by Vistana email. 

This Vistana back-end account shows me as Executive but my MVC ownership account still shows Owner. Plus am I the only one that thought that both my elected Vistana Club Points and my MVC owned Club Points would show up in one place to use in combination? Isn't that how they portrayed it?


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## alexadeparis (Dec 1, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Is anyone else getting this message when they go through the Vistana.com site to check their Club Point balance?  It showed this message yesterday before I elected any Club Points and still shows it after the election was confirmed by Vistana email.
> 
> This Vistana back-end account shows me as Executive but my MVC ownership account still shows Owner. Plus am I the only one that thought that both my elected Vistana Club Points and my MVC owned Club Points would show up in one place to use in combination? Isn't that how they portrayed it?View attachment 69447


yes. It took me 20-30 tries to get my club points elected for 2024 and now i can't see them but i did get an individual email confirmation for each VOI traded in


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Is anyone else getting this message when they go through the Vistana.com site to check their Club Point balance?  It showed this message yesterday before I elected any Club Points and still shows it after the election was confirmed by Vistana email.
> 
> This Vistana back-end account shows me as Executive but my MVC ownership account still shows Owner. Plus am I the only one that thought that both my elected Vistana Club Points and my MVC owned Club Points would show up in one place to use in combination? Isn't that how they portrayed it?View attachment 69447


Yes this is happening to me as well. Nothing is showing on the Marriott site.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Dioxide can confirm but I'll pretty sure they haven't conveyed WKV to the Westin Flex trust in the past few years. It's not an automatic thing when an ownership ends up coming back to Vistana/Marriott, of course.


I don’t know what has been conveyed to Westin Flex, but I suspect WKV is in there. There were no WKV conveyed to the MVC Destinations (Now Abound) Trust back in August 2022 and non since then. So the MVC trust doesn’t own any WKV. Westin Flex does but I recall them saying they expected to have those sold down pretty significantly by the time they launched Abound. So any seeding of WKV inventory would have to be coming from unsold Westin Flex, WKV owners that opted for Abound points or even opted for owner cruises or hotel booking options and possibly even resort credit. Usually MVC will rent this inventory out for can to monetize it, but they are probably willing to take a short term hit to seed the Abound inventory to make it look plentiful then slowly back off that going forward.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

Lots of “Perrys” here. Lots of wrangling before launch about how one will just continue to use VSN, then on launch day everyone starts electing for Abound Club Points. For those that don’t know, PerryM was all doom and gloom about the launch of DC back in 2010 and how bad it would be, then when it launched he was the BIGGEST FAN! He did have ulterior motives though…


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## VacationForever (Dec 1, 2022)

Without going through every post, I have a question here.  If I were to elect Club points for Vistana ownership, will these club points be combined with my MVC club points so that I can make a reservation with combined points?  Thanks.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Without going through every post, I have a question here.  If I were to elect Club points for Vistana ownership, will these club points be combined with my MVC club points so that I can make a reservation with combined points?  Thanks.



Yes I just did that.


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## VacationForever (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Yes I just did that.


Thanks!


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

HankW said:


> After all the reading, IMO the question is: If MVC-owned VSN inventory can be offered to MVC owners at 13 months versus following the Vistana rule which is 12 months? IMO, if MVC owns VSN, the earliest it can be used/offered to MVC players is 12 months. Trying to get some clarity on this. Thanks.


If you read the Vistana rules, during the home resort reservation period only those who own the same season and unit type are supposed to have access to the inventory. In practice Abound should not have access to the Vistana inventory at 13 or 12 months but at 8.


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

Did anyone end up with a higher owner level than what they should be?


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Lots of “Perrys” here. Lots of wrangling before launch about how one will just continue to use VSN, then on launch day everyone starts electing for Abound Club Points. For those that don’t know, PerryM was all doom and gloom about the launch of DC back in 2010 and how bad it would be, then when it launched he was the BIGGEST FAN! He did have ulterior motives though…


2010, where did I see that before? (like 1000000 times). 

If that launch was as botched as this one, maybe there are some similarities, otherwise there are none.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> If it can be said that the Vistana/Abound integration is terrible for Vistana owners because some Vistana inventory will be used by Marriott Abound members, can't the same be said that it's terrible for Marriott owners because some Marriott inventory will be used by Vistana members?
> 
> But I just don't understand all the negativity over what* is basically another exchange option*. Since the Destination Club was introduced in 2010 I've been thinking of, and looking forward to, the now-named Abound Exchange Company being the simple conduit for direct access to non-Marriott-branded timeshares! My pipe dream is that Disney eventually chooses to play in the Abound sandbox, which I know is about as long a shot as a long shot can be.


It is not just "another exchange option" for those that want to use their home resorts and they may see the prime weeks becoming harder to book. It is not just "another option" for those who bought Vistana for the internal trading system only to see it reduced to a second-class exchange that will only get inventory after Abound exchangers have booked everything  they wanted for 4 months. It is not just another option for those who will not find inventory in VSN and if they search in Abound, they will realize they have lost 30-50% trading power for the same resorts they could book in VSN. It is not just another options for those that got banking cut in half. And finally, it is not just an option for those who bought an entry package but will not be able to buy more Vistana weeks or Flex, even from the developer, and will have a hard time figuring how to use few points in VSN and few points in Abound if they have to buy more points.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> 2010, where did I see that before? (like 1000000 times).
> 
> If that launch was as botched as this one, maybe there are some similarities, otherwise there are none.


Is this necessary?!

We get it, you don't want to hear from anyone except the people who fall at your feet and agree with only and everything that you have to say.

But you are not the only Vistana owner participating in these discussions, and some others who are also new to Abound as it relates to their Vistana ownerships might be interested in what can be shared by Marriott owners/members who have extensive experience with it.

It's probably time for you to ignore what doesn't interest you.

(I'm saying this as a participant in only a few of the threads that you've hijacked with the exact same topic, and not as a TUG moderator. If you want to know a moderator's take, invite @DeniseM to comment.)


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> Is this necessary?!
> 
> We get it, you don't want to hear from anyone except the people who fall at your feet and agree with only and everything that you have to say.
> 
> ...


 I think I was responding to a comment that probably referred to me (and few others). How is that hijacking the discussion?


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

timsi said:


> It is not just "another exchange option" for those that want to use their home resorts and they may see the prime weeks becoming harder to book. It is not just "another option" for those who bought Vistana for the internal trading system only to see it reduced to a second-class exchange that will only get inventory after Abound exchangers have booked everything  they wanted for 4 months. It is not just another option for those who will not find inventory in VSN and if they search in Abound, they will realize they have lost 30-50% trading power for the same resorts they could book in VSN. It is not just another options for those that got banking cut in half. And finally, it is not just an option for those who bought an entry package but will not be able to buy more Vistana weeks or Flex, even from the developer, and will have a hard time figuring how to use few points in VSN and few points in Abound if they have to buy more points.


Excellent points


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## Kimberly614 (Dec 1, 2022)

Is anyone else getting this error when trying to book with club points?


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## kozykritter (Dec 1, 2022)

Kimberly614 said:


> Is anyone else getting this error when trying to book with club points?
> 
> View attachment 69454


Yes, and all the drop down lists are blank if you click on any of those boxes. I called Vistana and reported that error along with the one about not showing the Club point balance. They submitted a system ticket request to have them address it.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

I know many of us are having IT problems and other issues. I have had problems too. It is frustrating. OTOH, this was a major IT endeavor and I am glad they did it and are now in the “fixing bugs” stage.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> Well, I guess "naive" is a little bit better than *the utter lack of knowledge you've ascribed to Marriott owners* in some of your many other threads on the topic, so I'll take it.



I actually said the opposite, the TUGGers are very knowledgeable about booking and many other details related to their ownership. 

I only said that there was lack of interest regarding the rental business of the developer at the resorts you guys own. You can convince me of the opposite if you mention the inventory owned by Marriott at your own resorts.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Did anyone end up with a higher owner level than what they should be?


Yes.  They have us at Chairman's but we only have 14975 electable points.  Our units show correctly (with point count) but they somehow totaled us at 17975 and Chairman's status.  We shall see how long this lasts (we will save $25/year on club fees when demoted to Presidential).


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

vacationtime1 said:


> Yes.  They have us at Chairman's but we only have 14975 electable points.  Our units show correctly (with point count) but they somehow totaled us at 17975 and Chairman's status.  We shall see how long this lasts (we will save $25/year on club fees when demoted to Presidential).


Fingers crossed they don’t catch on. I must be at a new level they haven’t revealed yet. My benefit level has me as “supreme leader”.


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.


I’m reading on Facebook that most Marriott owners are booking Westin properties with all of the prime inventory Marriott bestowed upon them. I don’t blame them, Westins were always a better product than Marriott hotels/resorts. Conspiracy theorists said that would be the case.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Did anyone end up with a higher owner level than what they should be?



As mentioned - I am at Chairman, but they have me listed with >6000 CPs more than my ownership warrants.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m reading on Facebook that most Marriott owners are booking Westin properties with all of the prime inventory Marriott bestowed upon them. I don’t blame them, Westins were always a better product than Marriott hotels/resorts. Conspiracy theorists said that would be the case.



There is no Marriott inventory now so they had to book Westin for 2023 if they want something. They might choose Marriott or Westin if both were available now. I would have preferred to get my additional 3 days at MOC since I have 9 days there. But it has not been available for a long time. So I booked into a Westin. Now we have to change resorts after the first 3 days. You are creating conspiracy theories with this comment! ha ha


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> There is no Marriott inventory now so they had to book Westin for 2023 if they want something. I would have preferred to get my additional 3 days at MOC since I have 9 days there. But it has not been available for a long time. So I booked into a Westin. Now we have to change resorts after the first 3 days. You are creating conspiracy theories with this comment! ha ha


That’s not a conspiracy…. It’s a fact. Westin was a superior brand lol


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> As mentioned - I am at Chairman, but they have me listed with >6000 CPs more than my ownership warrants.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow! Congrats on the chairman level. Hopefully it sticks.


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> There is no Marriott inventory now so they had to book Westin for 2023 if they want something. They might choose Marriott or Westin if both were available now. I would have preferred to get my additional 3 days at MOC since I have 9 days there. But it has not been available for a long time. So I booked into a Westin. Now we have to change resorts after the first 3 days. You are creating conspiracy theories with this comment! ha ha


The developer owns both Marriott and Vistana inventory. How come at launch, according to you, Vistana inventory is available but not Marriott?


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> That’s not a conspiracy…. It’s a fact. Westin was a superior brand lol



I am a Westin and Marriott owner as you know. I get tired of the Westin snobs. LOL   

Frankly, the main advantage is the studio has a kitchenette. I do not stay in studios so that is not a benefit to me. Maybe if my kids were grown up and married, they would use the lock off and kitchenette and then it would be an advantage. 

It depends on the specific Westin and Marriott as to which is better. For example, in Kauai, the Marriotts are preferred over Westin for various reasons. There is a thread right now on this topic. In Maui, they are equivalent and the only difference is which location you prefer. I actually thought the Marriott Lahaina/Napili was a little nicer in Maui. It had nicer interior decor and had more Hawaiian feeling, as much as one can say any hotel in Maui feels Hawaiian.

Even in terms of the hotels, it depends on the specific Westin. For example, in Puerto Vallarta, the Marriott is heads and shoulders better than the Westin, which is nearby. That Westin is run down. 

I do not think either brand is the best out there though.


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## TravelTime (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> That’s not a conspiracy…. It’s a fact. Westin was a superior brand lol



The conspiracy theory is not about which brand is better. It is you saying all the Marriott owners are booking Westins now because it is better. My point is that they are booking because it is newly released inventory and all that is available for 2023.


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## grgs (Dec 1, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Lots of “Perrys” here. Lots of wrangling before launch about how one will just continue to use VSN, then on launch day everyone starts electing for Abound Club Points. For those that don’t know, PerryM was all doom and gloom about the launch of DC back in 2010 and how bad it would be, then when it launched he was the BIGGEST FAN! He did have ulterior motives though…


That was a lot of fun! Thanks for the memories!


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## timsi (Dec 1, 2022)

cubigbird said:


> Then if true this tells me that Abound will starve VSN of inventory.  Am I looking at this right?


It will have an effect on the inventory. The problem is that it is impossible to know how many units they block for each week for each bucket. Because the prime weeks have more value in Abound vs the adjacent weeks within the same season (and the same value in VSN), Marriott has an economic incentive to give more prime weeks to Abound and leave less interesting inventory in VSN. On surface they are not breaking any rule, but this can create an important surplus of MVC points for the developer. This is one of the reasons I am suspicious of the fact they do not provide more details about how they divide the inventory.


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## grgs (Dec 1, 2022)

DanCali said:


> "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
> 
> - Spock



Spock was paraphrasing Sherlock:



			The 10 Most Famous Sherlock Holmes Quotes


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## ada903 (Dec 1, 2022)

I don't know if this was discussed, but I noticed my Harborside weeks show "not enrolled" although they are in the network - one cannot trade Harborside SO to elect points - is that what others are seeing too?


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## travelhacker (Dec 1, 2022)

Kimberly614 said:


> Is anyone else getting this error when trying to book with club points?
> 
> View attachment 69454


@kozykritter 

Do either of you own Marriott Resale weeks? I am having the same issue. This is the error message I get in the chrome console:

{"statusCode":500,"errorCode":"SYSTEM_EXCEPTION","message":"Fatal Error Getting Owner Eligibility Search Criteria. Please check the logs","requestId":"e529be7987ec-2f9e-8def-6f4817b4f180"}
This makes me think that it's wrongly trying to use my Marriott ownership for searching. I think it could be a bit before we have access.


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## kozykritter (Dec 1, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> Do either of you own Marriott Resale weeks? I am having the same issue. This is the error message I get in the chrome console:
> 
> {"statusCode":500,"errorCode":"SYSTEM_EXCEPTION","message":"Fatal Error Getting Owner Eligibility Search Criteria. Please check the logs","requestId":"e529be7987ec-2f9e-8def-6f4817b4f180"}
> This makes me think that it's wrongly trying to use my Marriott ownership for searching. I think it could be a bit before we have access.


Mine are both Sheraton Flex contracts bought from the developer.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 1, 2022)

ada903 said:


> I don't know if this was discussed, but I noticed my Harborside weeks show "not enrolled" although they are in the network - one cannot trade Harborside SO to elect points - is that what others are seeing too?


Yes that is correct. They HOPE that we might be able to trade with them in 2024


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> Yes that is correct. They HOPE that we might be able to trade with them in 2024


Does anyone know the exact reason why it’s not in at launch? Is it because it was a joint venture between Starwood and kerzner. If that the case, I assume that Brookfield asset management still owns half?


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## alexadeparis (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Does anyone know the exact reason why it’s not in at launch? Is it because it was a joint venture between Starwood and kerzner. If that the case, I assume that Brookfield asset management still owns half?


Yes I think that’s right and a similar issue with Riverfront


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## CPNY (Dec 1, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> Yes I think that’s right and a similar issue with Riverfront


How was riverfront developed? It’s interesting because I’m sure Marriott holds a TON of acquired inventory through foreclosures. Or do those go back to the HOA? 

It will be interesting to see what value they give to HRA units. The gold season units are drastically undervalued in SO’s. Summer weeks are the most desirable and hardest to book yet are super cheap in SO.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 1, 2022)

CPNY said:


> How was riverfront developed? It’s interesting because I’m sure Marriott holds a TON of acquired inventory through foreclosures. Or do those go back to the HOA?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what value they give to HRA units. The gold season units are drastically undervalued in SO’s. Summer weeks are the most desirable and hardest to book yet are super cheap in SO.


IIRC someone did post a point chart for HRA and even Riverfront. I don’t have access to it now, but see if I can find it when I get on dry land.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

While comparing benefits of the Abound exchange and the VSN on the vistana website, I noticed that Star Option banking is still good for 2 years. 

We all thought that the new club dues were going to remove all fees and change the banking usage of SO. According to this, the VSN rules and usage will not change. The removal of club fees and banking deadline would apply to VOI’s that have been converted to Abound Club Points. Am I reading this correctly? This drastically changes things for me.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> IIRC someone did post a point chart for HRA and even Riverfront. I don’t have access to it now, but see if I can find it when I get on dry land.


Hope you’re enjoying your cruise!! The pics look awesome


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## Eric B (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> While comparing benefits of the Abound exchange and the VSN on the vistana website, I noticed that Star Option banking is still good for 2 years.
> 
> We all thought that the new club dues were going to remove all fees and change the banking usage of SO. According to this, the VSN rules and usage will not change. The removal of club fees and banking deadline would apply to VOI’s that have been converted to Abound Club Points. Am I reading this correctly? This drastically changes things for me.
> 
> View attachment 69467


VSN banking is supposed to change to align with the owner benefit levels next year or the year after, IIRC.


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## SDKath (Dec 2, 2022)

I am still stuck on the view preferences situation for non-owners at Maui (and Kauai)!  My SA tells me they are not doing time stamps anymore.  I don't really believe that but if they are not, then how are they giving out the first floor vs 6th floor ressies at KOR or Nanea for example?  If you own and reserve at 12 mo out as owner, paying almost $5000 in MFs, would a non-owner on an Abound ressie at 13 months (or 12 mo or even 9mo) have the same priority for views as an owner? 

That seems insane and totally unfair.


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## daviator (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> While comparing benefits of the Abound exchange and the VSN on the vistana website, I noticed that Star Option banking is still good for 2 years.
> 
> We all thought that the new club dues were going to remove all fees and change the banking usage of SO. According to this, the VSN rules and usage will not change. The removal of club fees and banking deadline would apply to VOI’s that have been converted to Abound Club Points. Am I reading this correctly? This drastically changes things for me.
> 
> View attachment 69467


I noticed the same thing.  But they had said that the changes to VSN banking (both the length and the banking deadlines) were not going to take effect until (IIRC) 2024.  So I am *assuming* that the chart will change in a year or two.

If they are actually keeping the VSN banking policies the same and the announced changes only apply to Abound, that would be great.  But I think they just gave us a short respite before reducing the elite benefits on the VSN side too.


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## vacation dreaming (Dec 2, 2022)

SDKath said:


> I am still stuck on the view preferences situation for non-owners at Maui (and Kauai)!  My SA tells me they are not doing time stamps anymore.  I don't really believe that but if they are not, then how are they giving out the first floor vs 6th floor ressies at KOR or Nanea for example?  If you own and reserve at 12 mo out as owner, paying almost $5000 in MFs, would a non-owner on an Abound ressie at 13 months (or 12 mo or even 9mo) have the same priority for views as an owner?
> 
> That seems insane and totally unfair.


What is an SA?  I would love to hear from someone at the resort in rooms control on this issue.


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## vacation dreaming (Dec 2, 2022)

SDKath said:


> I am still stuck on the view preferences situation for non-owners at Maui (and Kauai)!  My SA tells me they are not doing time stamps anymore.  I don't really believe that but if they are not, then how are they giving out the first floor vs 6th floor ressies at KOR or Nanea for example?  If you own and reserve at 12 mo out as owner, paying almost $5000 in MFs, would a non-owner on an Abound ressie at 13 months (or 12 mo or even 9mo) have the same priority for views as an owner?
> 
> That seems insane and totally unfair.


I own both deeded Maui and a small amount of Marriott destination points.  I will say I was shocked at the maintenance fees on my destination points.  They are charging a ton of points to reserve Maui, so it might not be fair to say people staying on points are paying less in maintenance fees. One thing Marriott did right was better allocate points to high value locations unlike the star option model where properties with much lower fees were allocated the same number of star options.  I can see both sides of this, but it does appear most of the Marriott properties allocate rooms to owners first, so Maui will likely start to do the same over time.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

Eric B said:


> VSN banking is supposed to change to align with the owner benefit levels next year or the year after, IIRC.


Right! that makes sense… I do think they should do a better job stating that in the benefits list. So many are going to be blindsided


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

daviator said:


> I noticed the same thing.  But they had said that the changes to VSN banking (both the length and the banking deadlines) were not going to take effect until (IIRC) 2024.  So I am *assuming* that the chart will change in a year or two.
> 
> If they are actually keeping the VSN banking policies the same and the announced changes only apply to Abound, that would be great.  But I think they just gave us a short respite before reducing the elite benefits on the VSN side too.


Right. I do think you’re correct, it was late and I had a bottle of wine lol I totally forgot that those changes were to take effect going forward.


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## timsi (Dec 2, 2022)

timsi said:


> It will have an effect on the inventory. The problem is that it is impossible to know how many units they block for each week for each bucket. Because the prime weeks have more value in Abound vs the adjacent weeks within the same season (and the same value in VSN), Marriott has an economic incentive to give more prime weeks to Abound and leave less interesting inventory in VSN. On surface they are not breaking any rule, but this can create an important surplus of MVC points for the developer. This is one of the reasons I am suspicious of the fact they do not provide more details about how they divide the inventory.


Please correct me if I am wrong.

Say the Abound trust owns 100 units of equal value, worth 10,000 points each, so the trust owns 1,000,000 points.  Say the Vistana owners deposit 30 units into Abound, worth 10,000 points each. The total trading power of all Trust owners and exchangers is now 1,300,000 points. Say instead of giving Abound “average” inventory, Vistana allocates to Abound weeks that are not worth 10,000 points in average but 14,000 points (more Presidents week, Thanksgiving, Easter etc) even if they are at the same resorts and the same season. The total value of the Abound inventory is now 1,420,000 but the trading power is just 1,300,000. What will happen with the difference of 120,000 points that cannot be booked by the owners because they do not have enough points? Can they rent that inventory? Use it for sales tours? Give it to Bonvoy and receive points (that they can sell or use?) . I ignored the skim for this example.

I wish Marriott made public how they allocate the inventory. Rather odd they do not want to do it.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 2, 2022)

timsi said:


> What will happen with the difference of 120,000 points that cannot be booked by the owners because they do not have enough points? Can they rent that inventory? Use it for sales tours? Give it to Bonvoy and receive points (that they can sell or use?) . I ignored the skim for this example.


I think they are able to do with it as they please.  I know not a satisfying answer, but I have long assumed skim as well as this sort of "slack" is likely within MVC's purview under the DC Trust documents to do with as they wish.  I am sure they monetize as much of it as possible, but I also believe they use this as additional buffer to keep the wheels of the system greased.  I don't think MVC is "altruistic" but I do think they know that making the system "work" for the vast majority of owners is in their greater interests (even greater than immediate satisfaction they might get from trying to monetize that inventory at all costs).

Don't forget, there are ways some owners benefit from this as well....those 30% last minute points booking discounts have to be funded from somewhere, and I have no doubt "skim" and the sort of "slack" you describe above enables this to some degree.

Bottom line, I don't think it's inappropriate to be skeptical of MVC at some points and I (like you) have some hard lines I think clearly should not be crossed (I am in 100% agreement that there should be virtually no Vistana inventory made available more than 12 months out in Abound - save for in the case that Abound gets some of the limited fixed week / fix unit inventory that is reserved more than 12 months out automatically).


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## YYJMSP (Dec 2, 2022)

if you are currently able to elect 2024, does that not imply you have just made Vistana units available in Abound more than 12mos out, as you just assigned your usage rights more than a year into the future?

that may be another source of inventory being seen...


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## ocdb8r (Dec 2, 2022)

YYJMSP said:


> if you are currently able to elect 2024, does that not imply you have just made Vistana units available in Abound more than 12mos out, as you just assigned your usage rights more than a year into the future?
> 
> that may be another source of inventory being seen...


No, because theoretically at MOST you have only assigned what rights you have to the inventory you turned in for "election" which for most owners would be to reserve a unit at your home resort (or home trust resorts) 12 months out.  You can't give Marriott something you don't have.  The only exception to this that I see is for owners of fixed week / fixed unit weeks which are reserved further out than 12 months.

Some (like timsi) will add that they believe the rights you assign as part of your "election" are further restricted by the HOA docs that say only "owners" may exercise their reservation rights at 12 months and everyone else has to wait until the 8 month mark.   I think that's up for interpretation and Marriott clearly believes when you elect you give it the right to act like an owner of whatever you elected.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 2, 2022)

FYI, We Marriott owners have started receiving emails announcing the addition of Vistana resorts into Abound. For whatever it might be worth to anybody, copy/paste of text below:

_Sender: *The Marriott Vacation Clubs* (themarriottvacationclubs@email1.marriott-vacations.com)
Date: Fri, Dec 2, 2022 1:02 pm
_
_ABOUND NOW OFFERS MORE_​_
A more fulfilling vacation life starts here. Through affiliation with the Vistana Signature Network® (VSN), Abound by Marriott Vacations™ gives you access to Sheraton® Vacation Club and Westin® Vacation Club resorts — all using the shared vacation currency of Club Points.
_
_SIMPLY MORE_​_
As previously announced, the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations®Exchange Program is now called Abound by Marriott Vacations. It’s a complement to how you use your vacation ownership today. The Abound exchange program now encompasses an expanded collection of premium vacation properties, including Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts, which can be reserved for stays using Club Points beginning in 2023.
_
_Relax on sandy beaches touched by warm waters in *Cancún* and *Los Cabos, Mexico*.
Play at four additional *Colorado* properties, including the only full-service ski-in/ski-out resort in Steamboat Springs.
Savor more authentic island experiences on *Maui* and *Kauaʻi* in *Hawaiʻi*.
Embark on *more travel experiences*, including cruises, hotels, and guided tours to name a few.

MORE DESTINATIONS_​_
Through Abound, you can now use Club Points to reserve stays at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts. Please note, for reservations beginning with the 2023 Use Year, we anticipate limited availability at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts until members of the VSN® elect to participate in Abound. As more participate, additional inventory at these resorts will be available for future reservations.

To search for resort availability, log in to your Owner website at *marriottvacationclub.com*.

©2022 Marriott Vacation Club International. All Rights Reserved. Marriott Vacation Club International and the programs and products provided under the Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, Grand Residences by Marriott, and The Ritz-Carlton Club brands are not owned, developed, or sold by Marriott International, Inc. Marriott Vacation Club International uses the Marriott marks under license from Marriott International, Inc. and its affiliates._

​


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## buzglyd (Dec 2, 2022)

I have a couple of thoughts/questions:

I’m an odd year Bella owner 81k. I see the option to convert to 2825 Abound points. If I elect to convert and then don’t use all or some of those points, can I bank them into the following year (2024)?

I’ve got some banked Star Options now from 2021 that I didn’t use and must be used this year in Vistana’s system.

I”ve got some issues at home with parents in and out of the hospital so planning travel is so difficult right now.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 2, 2022)

buzglyd said:


> I have a couple of thoughts/questions:
> 
> I’m an odd year Bella owner 81k. I see the option to convert to 2825 Abound points. If I elect to convert and then don’t use all or some of those points, can I bank them into the following year (2024)?
> 
> ...


FWIW that's how it works with Marriott owners who elect Abound Points, you can bank the entire amount or a portion of points from a single election forward, as long as you do the banking transaction prior to the banking deadline. The Benefits At A Glance chart shows the banking deadlines and rules based on Abound status tiers.


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## timsi (Dec 2, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> No, because theoretically at MOST you have only assigned what rights you have to the inventory you turned in for "election" which for most owners would be to reserve a unit at your home resort (or home trust resorts) 12 months out. You can't give Marriott something you don't have. The only exception to this that I see is for owners of fixed week / fixed unit weeks which are reserved further out than 12 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will add that when you borrow from 2024 you do not free up inventory for December 2023 (or any other month in 2023). I will also add that by depositing in Abound you cannot assign to others' rights that are just for the owners at a resort (like the right to book during the home resort reservation period.)


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## Troyrissa (Dec 2, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> There is no Marriott inventory now so they had to book Westin for 2023 if they want something. They might choose Marriott or Westin if both were available now. I would have preferred to get my additional 3 days at MOC since I have 9 days there. But it has not been available for a long time. So I booked into a Westin. Now we have to change resorts after the first 3 days. You are creating conspiracy theories with this comment! ha ha


When you say there is no Marriott inventory do you mean for Hawaii? I think you said you booked for the spring. So is there inventory for later in 2023 for Hawaii? I’m interested in electing points for next year only if I can go to Hawaii. Otherwise I will stay in vistana or take a chance with interval.


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## pchung6 (Dec 2, 2022)

Just a quick question, I have some left over Staroptions points banked until 2024. My question is can I elect these banked points to Marriott DC points so I can book few additional MKO nights in 2023? Vistana doesn't let me select banked points and only my 2023 weeks are available to elect.


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## alexadeparis (Dec 2, 2022)

pchung6 said:


> Just a quick question, I have some left over Staroptions points banked until 2024. My question is can I elect these banked points to Marriott DC points so I can book few additional MKO nights in 2023? Vistana doesn't let me select banked points and only my 2023 weeks are available to elect.


no once they are banked in either system, they stay


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## toddvb20 (Dec 2, 2022)

I have a SDO 2BDR lock off.  Does Abound make any difference to me or do you need to have a mandatory resort.

Thank you!


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## alexadeparis (Dec 2, 2022)

toddvb20 said:


> I have a SDO 2BDR lock off.  Does Abound make any difference to me or do you need to have a mandatory resort.
> 
> Thank you!


the reports are as long as you owned mandatory before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner


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## sponger76 (Dec 2, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> the reports are as long as you owned it before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner


Not if it is a resale voluntary resort that was never requalified.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 2, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> the reports are as long as you owned it before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner


Nope - must be mandatory owners purchased before August 9, 2022.  Voluntary VOIs are not eligible unless otherwise enrolled in VSN (by being a direct purchaser or by requalifying such week).

Curious if any post-August mandatory owners are seeing access anyhow?


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## TravelTime (Dec 2, 2022)

Troyrissa said:


> When you say there is no Marriott inventory do you mean for Hawaii? I think you said you booked for the spring. So is there inventory for later in 2023 for Hawaii? I’m interested in electing points for next year only if I can go to Hawaii. Otherwise I will stay in vistana or take a chance with interval.



I have only been looking at Maui since that is what I was trying to get 3 extra days in a 2BR as an add-on to our 9 days in April. I was able to get the extra 3 days in a 2BR OF at WKOVRN but I had been checking for months for the extra days at one of the MOCs in a 1BR or 2BR in any view type and it was impossible. Now I am seeing a lot more inventory In the Westins in Maui.but not much at the Marriotts in Maui. It varies a lot day to day.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.


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## buzglyd (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.


Yes you can check. It will then say you don't have enough points to confirm it.


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## timsi (Dec 2, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I think they are able to do with it as they please.  I know not a satisfying answer, but I have long assumed skim as well as this sort of "slack" is likely within MVC's purview under the DC Trust documents to do with as they wish.  I am sure they monetize as much of it as possible, but I also believe they use this as additional buffer to keep the wheels of the system greased.  I don't think MVC is "altruistic" but I do think they know that making the system "work" for the vast majority of owners is in their greater interests (even greater than immediate satisfaction they might get from trying to monetize that inventory at all costs).
> 
> Don't forget, there are ways some owners benefit from this as well....those 30% last minute points booking discounts have to be funded from somewhere, and I have no doubt "skim" and the sort of "slack" you describe above enables this to some degree.
> 
> Bottom line, I don't think it's inappropriate to be skeptical of MVC at some points and I (like you) have some hard lines I think clearly should not be crossed (I am in 100% agreement that there should be virtually no Vistana inventory made available more than 12 months out in Abound - save for in the case that Abound gets some of the limited fixed week / fix unit inventory that is reserved more than 12 months out automatically).


I was not referring to the skim, and I mentioned it. The points I was referring to are prime points, that can be planned in advanced, rented etc, not just mostly useless leftover nights available less than 60 days before checkin. The developer can benefit from this strategy if Abound gets better weeks than VSN (within the same season of course) and create a nice surplus they can benefit from. By the way, only those with status can get the leftovers with a 30% discount. Marriott said that the average owner has 1.5 weeks, and when you take into account that they are not all high season or the most expensive resorts, most owners do not have status. You would not be able to tell this from this site, most people here own many weeks.


The skim is extra, and it is not really necessary for inventory management as Vistana showed since we have none, it is just a “tax” on both sides of the trade. Also, in any system, even if sold 100%, you never have 100% of the owners who book and travel 100% year after year. Also, nobody knows what inventory is given to owners with a discount at less than 60 days and what inventory is kept by the developer anyways, so it is hard to say it is done for the benefit of the owners. However I have to say that the skim is fair because it is known in advance. Given better weeks to Abound than to Vistana is not.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

buzglyd said:


> Yes you can check. It will then say you don't have enough points to confirm it.


I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?


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## SueDonJ (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?


Check the rules in the Benefits At A Glance chart that's linked in Post #233 above.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.


You can, kind of. You can check a resort and see if a night is available at the resort in any unit size or view, but you really can’t see exactly what is available at the resort. Just that SOMETHING is available. I have 200 points in our Account and I can see anything that is available that is less than 200 points, but once I try to see if something that costs more than 200 is available, I can’t. I can just see that a night is available or not available at a resort. Easy for resorts with no views and only one unit size, but hard for resorts on the ocean with lock off units.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?


Ritz may also have a three night minimum.


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## luv_maui (Dec 2, 2022)

24 HRS after reporting the issue and I still don’t have my club points in my account


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## ocdb8r (Dec 2, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> You can, kind of. You can check a resort and see if a night is available at the resort in any unit size or view, but you really can’t see exactly what is available at the resort. Just that SOMETHING is available. I have 200 points in our Account and I can see anything that is available that is less than 200 points, but once I try to see if something that costs more than 200 is available, I can’t. I can just see that a night is available or not available at a resort. Easy for resorts with no views and only one unit size, but hard for resorts on the ocean with lock off units.


You can see what is available for these units as well (without sufficient points) by using the filters.  You filter your search by view or unit size and it will show you what's available only for those parameters.  It's more work because you can just view all availability based on your chosen date range, but it works.

Of course, just as now the bottom availability window will give you an error kessage that you dont have sufficient points.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 2, 2022)

timsi said:


> I was not referring to the skim, and I mentioned it.


I know what you said in your post but what you described is precisely what "skim" is.  It's Marriott giving less points to owners than the same points that would be required to trade back into their same ownership.

Whether it's skim via "weeks" inventory or "trust points" it's he same thing and same concept.  What you described is simply the trust points version of MVC giving a Kierland owners 4050 Abound points when they elect their week and then using that week to reserve a Kierland week worth 4900 points.  That is skim.

Regardless of what you call it, my point is the same, MVC has wide discretion to use the value of those points as it wants.  Again, not a satisfying answer but it's reality.


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## kozykritter (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> How was riverfront developed? It’s interesting because I’m sure Marriott holds a TON of acquired inventory through foreclosures. Or do those go back to the HOA?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what value they give to HRA units. The gold season units are drastically undervalued in SO’s. Summer weeks are the most desirable and hardest to book yet are super cheap in SO.





CPNY said:


> How was riverfront developed? It’s interesting because I’m sure Marriott holds a TON of acquired inventory through foreclosures. Or do those go back to the HOA?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what value they give to HRA units. The gold season units are drastically undervalued in SO’s. Summer weeks are the most desirable and hardest to book yet are super cheap in SO.


Riverfront was built and is still owned by East West Development which also built the attached Westin hotel and residences as well as several of its own East West Hospitality buildings on the vacant land next to the lone timeshare building. East West manages the timeshare property for Vistana, and all employees onsite work for East West instead of Vistana, except for the timeshare sales gallery staff. I believe EW uses its own reservation system into which it dumps Vistana reservations, and I've been caught up in some glitches with that reservation transfer method (completely gone missing!). So I'm sure they are looking at both the management agreement as well as IT infrastructure to accommodate Abound.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> Check the rules in the Benefits At A Glance chart that's linked in Post #233 above.


Thank you, based on my level it should be 13 months, so I wonder why it says it’s outside of the booking window


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## TravelTime (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Thank you, based on my level it should be 13 months, so I wonder why it says it’s outside of the booking window



I am curious as to whether Vistana-only folks are doing their exchanges when they elect points. Do you have to create a Marriott account first or can you trade within Vistana? For me, when I elected points, it went into my existing Marriott account.


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## sponger76 (Dec 2, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am curious as to whether Vistana-only folks are doing their exchanges when they elect points. Do you have to create a Marriott account first or can you trade within Vistana? For me, when I elected points, it went into my existing Marriott account.


From the Vistana dashboard, there is a link to book in MVC. It takes you to the MVC site without having to create a separate login/account. You're already logged in, I'm assuming using SSO (Single Sign-On) via Vistana. Assuming you've already elected points, from there you go ahead and book.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I am curious as to whether Vistana-only folks are doing their exchanges when they elect points. Do you have to create a Marriott account first or can you trade within Vistana? For me, when I elected points, it went into my existing Marriott account.


We were given Marriott accounts, so I assume it operates the same as it does for you. One of my “I will like Abound IF” scenarios could play out but now I can’t search for availability. I had vistana swap out star options so I could have a full week back to put into abound IF the availability is there.


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## TravelTime (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> We were given Marriott accounts, so I assume it operates the same as it does for you. One of my “I will like Abound IF” scenarios could play out but now I can’t search for availability. I had vistana swap out star options so I could have a full week back to put into abound IF the availability is there.



If you are trying to book Ritz St Thomas, I had luck last year booking 15N right at 13 month mark. However, the Ritz can be odd with how it releases. The inventory also gets booked within minutes of being released. A few years back, prior to Covid, I booked 8N at the Ritz at about 8 months but I was always checking.


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## byeloe (Dec 2, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> From the Vistana dashboard, there is a link to book in MVC. It takes you to the MVC site without having to create a separate login/account. You're already logged in, I'm assuming using SSO (Single Sign-On) via Vistana. Assuming you've already elected points, from there you go ahead and book.


Where is the link?  I can't seem to find it


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## TravelTime (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> Thank you, based on my level it should be 13 months, so I wonder why it says it’s outside of the booking window



I see a bunch of inventory for May 26 - June 2 in various unit types for 7N but no check in dates after that. It appears they have not released inventory past June. That is why I said the way Ritz St Thomas releases inventory is odd. FYI, the resort is closed in Sept and Oct.


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## CPNY (Dec 2, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> If you are trying to book Ritz St Thomas, I had luck last year booking 15N right at 13 month mark. However, the Ritz can be odd with how it releases. The inventory also gets booked within minutes of being released. A few years back, prior to Covid, I booked 8N at the Ritz at about 8 months but I was always checking.


There were 3 nights available in the month I needed but I couldn’t see what the dates were. If I can add it onto my WSJ reservation at the back end that would be amazing


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## TravelTime (Dec 2, 2022)

CPNY said:


> There were 3 nights available in the month I needed but I couldn’t see what the dates were. If I can add it onto my WSJ reservation at the back end that would be amazing



What month are you looking for for 3N? I can look for you if you tell me your preferred dates.


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## sponger76 (Dec 2, 2022)

byeloe said:


> Where is the link?  I can't seem to find it


I'm using a laptop rather than phone, but here's what it looks like on my Dashboard:


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## byeloe (Dec 2, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> I'm using a laptop rather than phone, but here's what it looks like on my Dashboard:
> View attachment 69520


Do you have to "elect" club points first?  My computer shows this


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## sponger76 (Dec 2, 2022)

byeloe said:


> Do you have to "elect" club points first?  My computer shows this
> View attachment 69521


I swear I saw that menu prior to electing and did some searches, but maybe I'm misremembering. I have no way of going back and confirming now that I have definitely elected.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 2, 2022)

byeloe said:


> Where is the link?  I can't seem to find it



Select View Balance from the dropdown at the top and it will take you there.


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## timsi (Dec 2, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I know what you said in your post but what you described is precisely what "skim" is.  It's Marriott giving less points to owners than the same points that would be required to trade back into their same ownership.
> 
> Whether it's skim via "weeks" inventory or "trust points" it's he same thing and same concept.  What you described is simply the trust points version of MVC giving a Kierland owners 4050 Abound points when they elect their week and then using that week to reserve a Kierland week worth 4900 points.  That is skim.
> 
> Regardless of what you call it, my point is the same, MVC has wide discretion to use the value of those points as it wants.  Again, not a satisfying answer but it's reality.


You completely misunderstood what I wrote, I did not describe the skim. Maybe I was not clear, think of a real example where they would assign to Abound more WKV weeks that are worth 5400 points (and leave in VSN weeks the weeks that are worth 2950 points during the same Vistana platinum season). The WKV owners depositing into Abound would only receive 4050 points.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 2, 2022)

@byeloe 
Once you’re at the MVC site, select “USE POINTS” from the top then “Book Vacation Club Points“ from the dropdown




Then complete the search form to see availability 




You can select your desired checkin date from the unshaded dates.

If you elected Club points, it will display the all available room types for your desired checkin date in the section below  (see blue box).
If you haven’t elected or don’t have enough Club point, the system will only display a message. However you can figure out the availability for a specific room size/view by playing around with the filters on the right to determine which sizes and views are available (see red box).


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## alexadeparis (Dec 3, 2022)

Anytime I go to the Book with Points section I get an error. I chatted with them they are aware it’s an issue and are “working on it” but that doesn’t help me any. I can’t search $#!+


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## travelhacker (Dec 3, 2022)

alexadeparis said:


> Anytime I go to the Book with Points section I get an error. I chatted with them they are aware it’s an issue and are “working on it” but that doesn’t help me any. I can’t search $#!+


Sorry you are affected by this as well.

I'm in the same boat. It's frustrating.


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Nothing available in Abound, not even a single night.


How are you able to check availability?  Do you already have Club Points?  I don’t have Club Points and cannot see any availability at any Marriott property; so an election would be a crap shoot.  Is this the way it’s supposed to work?


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

timsi said:


> The “conspiracy” was actually just reading the Abound Exchange Procedures and it was pretty clear  to me what they intended to do: “Exchange Company shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservations and use of the Accommodations and is authorized to demand balance, reserve, deposit, or rent the Accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the Accommodations or other benefits made available to Program Members through the Program in its sole discretion.”
> 
> It does not matter if the Vistana weeks available in Abound come from owner deposits that didn't even occur yet (based on “future anticipated demand”) or from inventory owned by Vistana. Bottom line is there is no paragraph I could find in the VSN or Lagunamar governing documents that allows Abound to book its own inventory in ways *not available *to the other owners even at the same time with the other owners let alone prior to the actual opening of the Home Resort Reservation Period. This is worse than I anticipated.  Also, as it was to be expected, once they see inventory in Abound, people started to book there Vistana weeks and deposit their (again Vistana) weeks. It is as clear as it can be that people will book wherever they can find inventory (especially prime weeks that are hard to book), and this attracts deposits. It is not the other way around, as much as the Marriott apologists have tried to convince us.
> 
> ...


Class action lawsuit time?


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## ocdb8r (Dec 3, 2022)

timsi said:


> You completely misunderstood what I wrote, I did not describe the skim. Maybe I was not clear, think of a real example where they would assign to Abound more WKV weeks that are worth 5400 points (and leave in VSN weeks the weeks that are worth 2950 points during the same Vistana platinum season). The WKV owners depositing into Abound would only receive 4050 points.


Maybe you don't understand what the skim is...because that's exactly what youve described.  All you've done is highlight the most egregious part of skim (or how MVC could "maximize" it).  It's still skim.


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## DonnaJ123 (Dec 3, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> You should not be able to reserve Vistana inventory until 12 months out. If people are seeing this, then it could be a bug. Marriott does not use time stamps. So if you want a time stamp, you should book with Vistana unless Vistana changes this too. Marriott usually calls or emails me the week before and asks me what I want and then they try to match it to the best of their ability.


Wouldn’t every single person ask for top floor when securing OF at WKORVN?  How do they decide who to call first to give first dibs?


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## sponger76 (Dec 3, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> How are you able to check availability?  Do you already have Club Points?  I don’t have Club Points and cannot see any availability at any Marriott property; so an election would be a crap shoot.  Is this the way it’s supposed to work?


I elected my VSN VOI for Abound points.


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## TravelTime (Dec 3, 2022)

DonnaJ123 said:


> Wouldn’t every single person ask for top floor when securing OF at WKORVN?  How do they decide who to call first to give first dibs?



This is always a heated discussion and no one knows for sure. Being an owner at the resort seems to have the highest priority. I was just saying that Vistana does not appear to use time stamp all the time. An example…I exchanged into WKOVR in 2018 or 2019 using SOs as a non-owner and we were assigned the top floor OF. Technically we should not have gotten that room if time stamp were used. I have no idea how they assigned us there. There are other threads about how Marriott appears to make room assignments.

If I were Marriott, I would make better room assignments part of the Chairman’s Club benefits since there is nothing special Chairman’s Club members get except 6 months extra of banking. Making better room assignments a benefit - without guaranteeing it of course - is a free way to recognize and motivate people to get to Chairman’s Club level. They do this on the hotel side for Titanium so why not do something like this on the timeshare side. This is just my opinion so I hope people do not get upset with me for mentioning it.


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## byeloe (Dec 3, 2022)

@alwysonvac 
thanks for the tips.  For some reason, when I click on "View balance" nothing happens


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## alwysonvac (Dec 3, 2022)

byeloe said:


> @alwysonvac
> thanks for the tips.  For some reason, when I click on "View balance" nothing happens


Sorry, I just tried it and it’s working for me. 
Make sure you don’t have a pop-up blocker.


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> I elected my VSN VOI for Abound points.


Got it.  So electing on a speculative basis, hoping what you want to book is available.  Not sure I want to go that route. Thank you.


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## byeloe (Dec 3, 2022)

alwysonvac said:


> Sorry, I just tried it and it’s working for me.
> Make sure you don’t have a pop-up blocker.


Mine is not
My account is pretty messed up.  



It shows this on the election screen, which includes an EOY Lagunamar Gold(it's voluntary)
If I select use year, the error is corrected on the next screen



Then my benefit level is showing



which includes my EOY Gold plus and an Annual Platinum Plus Lagunamar (also voluntary)

and they did not charge me the new club dues, just $170 for one of my Kierland units and nothing for the other Kierland.

I am not going to bother to get anything fixed until I have a need to use the Abound exchange, since I may never elect my Kierlands


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## Troyrissa (Dec 3, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> Got it.  So electing on a speculative basis, hoping what you want to book is available.  Not sure I want to go that route. Thank you.


No, you can search without electing club points. I have done a number of searches today. On your vistana dashboard there is a section called ‘use club points’. Within that section there is a make a reservation link. That takes you directly to Marriotts reservation system where you can search different resorts and dates. It will show a calendar for each month with available days for check in. You can use the filter feature to see if a certain unit size/view is available.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 3, 2022)

byeloe said:


> Mine is not
> My account is pretty messed up.


Yikes!  

Thanks for sharing. I own all qualified weeks. 
I guess they didn’t account for owners with a combination of both (qualified and non-qualified weeks).


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## DanCali (Dec 3, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> If I were Marriott, I would make better room assignments part of the Chairman’s Club benefits since there is nothing special Chairman’s Club members get except 6 months extra of banking. Making better room assignments a benefit - without guaranteeing it of course - is a free way to recognize and motivate people to get to Chairman’s Club level. They do this on the hotel side for Titanium so why not do something like this on the timeshare side. This is just my opinion so I hope people do not get upset with me for mentioning it.



No-one will get upset, but it's obviously self-serving wishful thinking on your part   

Besides, all these benefit levels get diluted over time. It used to take 50 nights to get to Bonvoy Platinum, then you can get a shortcut with 15 bonus nights from a credit card, and now you can just "buy" Bonvoy Platinum for $650/year by paying an annual fee on the Brilliant card. Recently, I went to a concierge lounge at a JW Marriott and I barely could find 2 seats for breakfast... And yesterday I called the "Elite line" at Vistana and was on hold for about 1 hour.


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## TravelTime (Dec 3, 2022)

DanCali said:


> No-one will get upset, but it's obviously self-serving wishful thinking on your part
> 
> Besides, all these benefit levels get diluted over time. It used to take 50 nights to get to Bonvoy Platinum, then you can get a shortcut with 15 bonus nights from a credit card, and now you can just "buy" Bonvoy Platinum for $650/year by paying an annual fee on the Brilliant card. Recently, I went to a concierge lounge at a JW Marriott and I barely could find 2 seats for breakfast... And yesterday I called the "Elite line" at Vistana and was on hold for about 1 hour.



It is self serving but it is also true that Chairman’s Level does not have any benefits over some lower levels except some extra banking time.  

I have heard for years that Marriott will be enhancing Chairman’s Club level and it still has not happened. I was happy at Presidential level but lucked out with getting the upgrade due to Vistana week.

I just barely made it to Chairman’s with a little over 15K annualized points. I am happy with this and it more than meets our vacation needs.


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## sponger76 (Dec 3, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> Got it.  So electing on a speculative basis, hoping what you want to book is available.  Not sure I want to go that route. Thank you.


Not too speculative. I do know from looking at the MVC boards that if you book early enough, generally you can get something at most resorts. To give myself even more cushion, I actually elected my 2024 VOI instead of 2023, because I could borrow that for 2023 usage if I found something I wanted (which I did). If I didn't find anything decent left for 2023 I'd already be set to book right at the 12 month mark for 2024.

And besides, paying MFs for anything other than a fixed week in VSN is speculative, hoping that exactly what you want is going to be available, whether it's the specific week you want at a home resort when you own a floating week within a whole season or just points, both HomeOptions or StarOptions.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 3, 2022)

If one is a Vistana only owner and buys Abound Trust points, do they then get an MVC Owner Number and can then setup a MVC account? Would that simplify the process in any way for a Vistana owner? Effectively once you elect you could just use the MVC owner account to transact all reservations?


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 3, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Not too speculative. I do know from looking at the MVC boards that if you book early enough, generally you can get something at most resorts. To give myself even more cushion, I actually elected my 2024 VOI instead of 2023, because I could borrow that for 2023 usage if I found something I wanted (which I did). If I didn't find anything decent left for 2023 I'd already be set to book right at the 12 month mark for 2024.
> 
> And besides, paying MFs for anything other than a fixed week in VSN is speculative, hoping that exactly what you want is going to be available, whether it's the specific week you want at a home resort when you own a floating week within a whole season or just points, both HomeOptions or StarOptions.



How does one elect 2024 usage? I don’t see it. All my 2023 usage has been booked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Not too speculative. I do know from looking at the MVC boards that if you book early enough, generally you can get something at most resorts. To give myself even more cushion, I actually elected my 2024 VOI instead of 2023, because I could borrow that for 2023 usage if I found something I wanted (which I did). If I didn't find anything decent left for 2023 I'd already be set to book right at the 12 month mark for 2024.
> 
> And besides, paying MFs for anything other than a fixed week in VSN is speculative, hoping that exactly what you want is going to be available, whether it's the specific week you want at a home resort when you own a floating week within a whole season or just points, both HomeOptions or StarOptions.


Good points.  The difference w/ VSN tho is I have a multi-year res history to draw upon so perception is it is less speculative. No history w/ MVC to draw upon. My 2023 travel is all booked except for one res I need to make at 8 months for next December.  Will look to 2024 & consider electing for that travel.  Thank you.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 3, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> If one is a Vistana only owner and buys Abound Trust points, do they then get an MVC Owner Number and can then setup a MVC account? Would that simplify the process in any way for a Vistana owner? Effectively once you elect you could just use the MVC owner account to transact all reservations?


Yes - but I'm not sure it simplifies the process much. You can log directly into MVC, but about all that saves you is clicking the book with club points button on he Vistana site (which basically shifts you into the MVC site).


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

Vistana site appears to be down.  Anybody else seeing that?


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## DanCali (Dec 3, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> How does one elect 2024 usage? I don’t see it. All my 2023 usage has been booked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Can't post a screenshot since the website crashed...

But I believe you go to the Dashboard and then select Elect Club Points. Should show you each week with your options for 2023 and 2024.


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## jeffm211 (Dec 3, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> Vistana site appears to be down.  Anybody else seeing that?


Appears to be back up.  Phew!


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## DanCali (Dec 3, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> Appears to be back up.  Phew!


Indeed it is.




DavidnRobin said:


> How does one elect 2024 usage? I don’t see it. All my 2023 usage has been booked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



@DavidnRobin - here you go (although the page it goes to seems to crash often, at least for me). You can even elect for 2025!


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## VacationForever (Dec 3, 2022)

You guys/gals are too fast for me and I am having difficulty in catching up with all the posts.  Is it true that for those of us who own both enrolled Vistana and MVC weeks/points, we will continue to have 2 Corporate II accounts?  Thanks.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 3, 2022)

DanCali said:


> Can't post a screenshot since the website crashed...
> 
> But I believe you go to the Dashboard and then select Elect Club Points. Should show you each week with your options for 2023 and 2024.



Thanks. I see it now - was not available a couple of days ago. It just said I had no electable CPs.

If I elect 2024 CPs can I use in 2023?
Sorry if stupid question…


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## VacationForever (Dec 3, 2022)

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks. I see it now - was not available a couple of days ago. It just said I had no electable CPs.
> 
> If I elect 2024 CPs can I use in 2023?
> Sorry if stupid question…
> ...


Yes. In the CP system, you can borrow from the elected points online, without needing to call.


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## DanCali (Dec 3, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Yes. In the CP system, you can borrow from the elected points online, without needing to call.



And you also don’t need to prepay MFs. 


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## CPNY (Dec 3, 2022)

travelhacker said:


> Sorry you are affected by this as well.
> 
> I'm in the same boat. It's frustrating.


It happened to me yesterday a few times. I’m still getting the “outside of booking window” for certain resorts. Bummer, all of the inventory for what i wanted is now gone.


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## CPNY (Dec 3, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> This is always a heated discussion and no one knows for sure. Being an owner at the resort seems to have the highest priority. I was just saying that Vistana does not appear to use time stamp all the time. An example…I exchanged into WKOVR in 2018 or 2019 using SOs as a non-owner and we were assigned the top floor OF. Technically we should not have gotten that room if time stamp were used. I have no idea how they assigned us there. There are other threads about how Marriott appears to make room assignments.
> 
> If I were Marriott, I would make better room assignments part of the Chairman’s Club benefits since there is nothing special Chairman’s Club members get except 6 months extra of banking. Making better room assignments a benefit - without guaranteeing it of course - is a free way to recognize and motivate people to get to Chairman’s Club level. They do this on the hotel side for Titanium so why not do something like this on the timeshare side. This is just my opinion so I hope people do not get upset with me for mentioning it.


Good points. That would be a cool perk for chairman or even presidential (when available). I will say, I never get any decent rooms with titanium on the hotel side, unless I travel out of the states. Then they treat you like a valued member. I suspect they don’t see as many elites as often as a US Marriott would.


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## CPNY (Dec 3, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> You guys/gals are too fast for me and I am having difficulty in catching up with all the posts.  Is it true that for those of us who own both enrolled Vistana and MVC weeks/points, we will continue to have 2 Corporate II accounts?   It will be interesting to see. I currently have one VOI that’s not enrolled in about (post 8/9) that is assigned to my one corp interval account.



It will be interesting to see but I assume that the II accounts would not be merged. I’m waiting to see how they handle enrolled in Abound VOI’s combined with VOI’s not enrolled in Abound that share the same II Corp account. Since next year the enrolled Abound VOI’s will come with free II exchanges into Abound resorts. 

Interval’s website hasn’t changed in decades and it’s time for an overhaul. I have 5 units in the same resort in the same season. I cannot tell which unit belongs to which contract. It makes it impossible to do an exchange using a unit from the following year. I never know which MF to pay early. 

I also want to see how they handle club dues. Will I be paying an Abound Club dues in addition to a VSN Dues for the post 8/9 resale?


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## TravelTime (Dec 3, 2022)

Not sure where I should be asking this questions since it is a dual Marriott/Vistana owner question related to the IT side of this launch.

Since I have a Marriott account already, when I elected points from Vistana, I called and they deposited the points into my existing Marriott account. From there, the points showed up as elected VSN points and I can book like I always do with Marriott properties. Is this how it is working for all the dual Marriott/Vistana owners even if you elect on the website?

I am hearing that if you elect points in Vistana then you book through the Vistana website. I assume that is only if you do not already have a Marriott account. Since I elected points by phone, I wonder if the rep did anything different for me since I told him I wanted my points deposited into my Marriott account. I assumed Marriott would give everyone a Marriott account and that the way it is working for me would be how everyone would do it but I guessed wrong.

Have any other dual Marriott/Vistana owners elected points and how did it work for you?


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 3, 2022)

Related question:  How would a Vistana-only member rent CP's without a Marriott account?


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## CPNY (Dec 3, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Not sure where I should be asking this questions since it is a dual Marriott/Vistana owner question related to the IT side of this launch.
> 
> Since I have a Marriott account already, when I elected points from Vistana, I called and they deposited the points into my existing Marriott account. From there, the points showed up as elected VSN points and I can book like I always do with Marriott properties. Is this how it is working for all the dual Marriott/Vistana owners even if you elect on the website?
> 
> ...


I’m a vistana only owner and I was given a Marriott points account. I’m just not sure if it’s exactly the same account that a Marriott owner has.


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## DanCali (Dec 3, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Not sure where I should be asking this questions since it is a dual Marriott/Vistana owner question related to the IT side of this launch.
> 
> Since I have a Marriott account already, when I elected points from Vistana, I called and they deposited the points into my existing Marriott account. From there, the points showed up as elected VSN points and I can book like I always do with Marriott properties. Is this how it is working for all the dual Marriott/Vistana owners even if you elect on the website?
> 
> ...



When you click on "Use Club Points / Search & Book Reservations" you are logged into your MVC account automatically. I was an existing MVC member and when I do this on the Vistana side it basically takes me to a slimmed down version of my MVC account where I can see my existing MVC points too, so points can be combined. I imagine that if I elected points from VSN weeks they will also show up if I log in from MVC directly.

I say the website is "slimmed down" because it's the MVC website without the legacy weeks and a couple of other MVC account-specific tabs. It's kind of cool how they did that.


*MVC wesbite from Vistana (auto) login:*



*My "Normal" MVC Website (login via MVC):*








vacationtime1 said:


> Related question:  How would a Vistana-only member rent CP's without a Marriott account?



To transfer points you need an MVC Owner account. This is available on the right screenshot under "Account" (except the relevant link there been broken for a few months). It's also available via the MVC app. And it's also on MF bills.

I suspect all Vistana owners who are in Abound and were not in MVC before also have an MVC Owner number somewhere which will allow you to transfer points in. It's just not immediately obvious to me how to access it other than a phone call to Vistana or MVC Owner services.


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## KACTravels (Dec 3, 2022)

CPNY said:


> I’m a vistana only owner and I was given a Marriott points account. I’m just not sure if it’s exactly the same account that a Marriott owner has.


How did Marriott give you the Marriott Points account?  I’m assuming you mean Vacation Points Account not Bonvoy.  Did you call to have it set up and connected to your Vistana account?  Or were you able to do it online by yourself?   I hope my question makes sense.


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## CPNY (Dec 4, 2022)

KACTravels said:


> How did Marriott give you the Marriott Points account?  I’m assuming you mean Vacation Points Account not Bonvoy.  Did you call to have it set up and connected to your Vistana account?  Or were you able to do it online by yourself?   I hope my question makes sense.


It was automatic. Once you go to elect to convert, or search and book club points reservations via the vistana site it brings you to an external webpage (Marriott vacation club page) see post #1 in the thread


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## CPNY (Dec 4, 2022)

DanCali said:


> When you click on "Use Club Points / Search & Book Reservations" you are logged into your MVC account automatically. I was an existing MVC member and when I do this on the Vistana side it basically takes me to a slimmed down version of my MVC account where I can see my existing MVC points too, so points can be combined. I imagine that if I elected points from VSN weeks they will also show up if I log in from MVC directly.
> 
> I say the website is "slimmed down" because it's the MVC website without the legacy weeks and a couple of other tabs. It's kind of cool how they did that.
> 
> ...


Maybe they aren’t allowing vistana owners without Marriott points the ability to transfer points?


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## KACTravels (Dec 4, 2022)

CPNY said:


> It was automatic. Once you go to elect to convert, or search and book club points reservations via the vistana site it brings you to an external webpage (Marriott vacation club page) see post #1 in the thread


Thank you for your quick reply.  I have been able to get to the other Marriott Club page, but at one point when I was clicking around it said I needed to create a Marriott Vacation Club Account. I didn’t want to do that without understanding if it was going to create a duplicate account.


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## sponger76 (Dec 4, 2022)

CPNY said:


> It was automatic. Once you go to elect to convert, or search and book club points reservations via the vistana site it brings you to an external webpage (Marriott vacation club page) see post #1 in the thread


I think what he's asking is, do you see an actual MVC account number? I access Abound via Vistana as well and don't see an account number anywhere.


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## CPNY (Dec 4, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> I think what he's asking is, do you see an actual MVC account number? I access Abound via Vistana as well and don't see an account number anywhere.


No account number, I have the watered down version of a points account.


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## dsmrp (Dec 4, 2022)

Plz excuse if this is a dupe post.
I just saw my Friday email from Marriott announcing Abound. There is a deadline of Dec 31 for electing club pts for 2023.

LOL, I can't see much reason for cancelling a star options reservation and rebooking with Abound pts. There may be some scenarios where Abound pts are a better redemption value, but IMO by and large, I can get more with star options.


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Plz excuse if this is a dupe post.
> I just saw my Friday email from Marriott announcing Abound. There is a deadline of Dec 31 for electing club pts for 2023.
> 
> LOL, I can't see much reason for cancelling a star options reservation and rebooking with Abound pts. There may be some scenarios where Abound pts are a better redemption value, but IMO by and large, I can get more with star options.



You do now have 60+ more resorts to choose from, so a re-evaluation of vacation plans for some owners may be completely reasonable. But there are drawbacks...

While I think "skim" is something you can get used to if you think of it as a "transaction cost" incurred when exchanging to a different resort and/or season, IMO, the biggest drawback/turnoff from the perspective of a Vistana 2BR lockoff unit owner is the unequal treatment of the whole vs. the sum of the parts. 

In Vistana we got used that:


The Staroptions you receive for a studio/small 1BR + large 1BR = Staroptions received for a 2BR lockoff
The Staroptions needed to book a studio/small 1BR + large 1BR = Staroptions needed to book a 2BR lockoff
You can use one part of a lockoff and still exchange the other to Staroptions or II, this maximizing the use of you VOI. Or exchange the two parts separately at different times of the year.
In Abound these are all violated and, as a result:

1) Owners of 2BR lockoffs (who could actually have purchased the 2 smaller units comprising the lockoff from the developer - or resale - for about the same price and MFs) are now, all of a sudden, short-changed by receiving about 15% fewer points than they could have received if they owned the two smaller units. This is unrelated to "skim", but rather a structure of the Abound exchange system. It's actually on top of the "skim" that everyone choosing Abound points incurs...

2) Owners who want Abound points, are required to exchange the entire 2BR lockoff. I am not that familiar with Disney/Hyatt/Hilton etc... is there any other timeshare exchange system that does that with lockoffs? It certainly doesn't work that way with II and Vistana.

So as a WKV owner I am not happy that I only get 4050 points whereas if I purchased a small + large 1BR unit for the same cost and MFs I'd be getting ~4700 points of the two units and could also make a choice to deposit both, just the small one, just the large one, or neither. When I have the choice of "the 2BR or nothing," I'm more inclined to choose "nothing" but, to be fair, I also have other options with my MVC ownership.


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## THSMTHS (Dec 4, 2022)

CPNY said:


> It seems that access to Abound via Vistana website is now up and running. It also seems my post 8/9 is listed as “not enrolled” that’s a bummer. If this isn’t the official roll out, it surely is a step in the right direction.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no eligible weeks in 2023 to convert to test it (I’ve already made reservations using SO). Someone else may be in a better position to test it out.
> 
> View attachment 69358View attachment 69359


Just saying that to access the Marriott inventory, you loose value turning your property into points. It is why we bought Vistana in the first place. What ever your unit is worth is what you have to use another property, instead of the 10% reduction Marriott takes when you convert. Marriott gives us 2900 pts. for our Desert Springs property. It costs others 3775 to use. Obviously still a sticking point for me.


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## dcdowden (Dec 4, 2022)

Are banked staroptions able to be converted to Abound points?


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

dcdowden said:


> Are banked staroptions able to be converted to Abound points?



No - you have to give up an actual week.


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## Juliegomsu (Dec 4, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Maybe I am missing your point. The way I see it is that Marritott owns the inventory and they chose to deposit into Abound just like any other owner. I am agreeing with you. So why is this against the rules?


On Nov 10th I went to a sales talk at the Sheraton Desert Oasis which is Vistana points. The points or options I have are not the same as Marriott Points. They were of course looking for me to spend more money. I can try to transfer to a Marriott, but they say I will not have much chance because those who pay for the Abound will get in ahead of me. They wanted me to spend $12,000 for the Abound membership and then came down to ONLY $8000. Why wouldn't someone just purchase a Marriott resale? This was crazy and anyone who paid that was not informed correctly.


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## jeffm211 (Dec 4, 2022)

DanCali said:


> When you click on "Use Club Points / Search & Book Reservations" you are logged into your MVC account automatically. I was an existing MVC member and when I do this on the Vistana side it basically takes me to a slimmed down version of my MVC account where I can see my existing MVC points too, so points can be combined. I imagine that if I elected points from VSN weeks they will also show up if I log in from MVC directly.
> 
> I say the website is "slimmed down" because it's the MVC website without the legacy weeks and a couple of other tabs. It's kind of cool how they did that.
> 
> ...


"I suspect all Vistana owners who are in Abound and were not in MVC before also have an MVC Owner number somewhere which will allow you to transfer points in."

Great point!  Where can we find that number or does it require a call to MVC Owner Services?  No purchased CPs and no elected VOIs as of yet.  Nothing on the VSN MF statements work.  Thanks.


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> "I suspect all Vistana owners who are in Abound and were not in MVC before also have an MVC Owner number somewhere which will allow you to transfer points in."
> 
> Great point!  Where can we find that number or does it require a call to MVC Owner Services?  No purchased CPs and no elected VOIs as of yet.  Nothing on the VSN MF statements work.  Thanks.



I would start with MVC Owner Services because they will know what number you are looking for. I also know that, at this point, they can see my Vistana ownership at least in some of their systems, so they may be able to look you up by name. If they can't, then try Vistana Owner Services.

Tip: don't try MVC right at 9am - that's usually when people call to make reservations and you may be on hold for a long time. Some inventory is released for 13 months weeks, some inventory is released for 12 months weeks, points inventory is released on Tuesdays (13-moth) and Fridays (12-month), and resorts have different weeks inventory release dates depending in the first checkin day is Thursday or Friday so, while it's hard to keep track, 9am seems busy pretty much every day...


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## jeffm211 (Dec 4, 2022)

DanCali said:


> I would start with MVC Owner Services because they will know what number you are looking for. I also know that, at this point, they can see my Vistana ownership at least in some of their systems, so they may be able to look you up by name. If they can't, then try Vistana Owner Services.
> 
> Tip: don't try MVC right at 9am - that's usually when people call to make reservations and you may be on hold for a long time. Some inventory is released for 13 months weeks, some inventory is released for 12 months weeks, points inventory is released on Tuesdays (13-moth) and Fridays (12-month), and resorts have different weeks inventory release dates depending in the first checkin day is Thursday or Friday so, while it's hard to keep track, 9am seems busy pretty much every day...


Thank you.  No urgency, so will keep these windows in mind.


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

jeffm211 said:


> Thank you.  No urgency, so will keep these windows in mind.



I just realized I forgot there is a 10-month window, 6-month window, 120-day window and 60-day window....

Those release dates are so unfriendly, that this webpage is now a very good friend 

Once on the MVC website, it's under "Use Points / When Can I Reserve"


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## jeffm211 (Dec 4, 2022)

DanCali said:


> I just realied I forgot there is a 10-month window, 6-month window, 120-day window and 60-day window....
> 
> Those release dates are so unfriendly, that this webpage is now a very good friend
> 
> ...


Thanks for pointing this out!  Very helpful tool!


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## SteelerGal (Dec 4, 2022)

deleted.  Wrong thread.


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## dsmrp (Dec 4, 2022)

DanCali said:


> I would start with MVC Owner Services because they will know what number you are looking for. I also know that, at this point, they can see my Vistana ownership at least in some of their systems, so they may be able to look you up by name. If they can't, then try Vistana Owner Services.
> 
> Tip: don't try MVC right at 9am - that's usually when people call to make reservations and you may be on hold for a long time. Some inventory is released for 13 months weeks, some inventory is released for 12 months weeks, points inventory is released on Tuesdays (13-moth) and Fridays (12-month), and resorts have different weeks inventory release dates depending in the first checkin day is Thursday or Friday so, while it's hard to keep track, 9am seems busy pretty much every day...


What are the MVC owners services phone #s?  Is there one for higher levels? I'm only Executive, but Vistana had one for 3* and up. 

TIA!


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> What are the MVC owners services phone #s?  Is there one for higher levels? I'm only Executive, but Vistana had one for 3* and up.
> 
> TIA!



The regular number is 800-845-4226.

In general - see the screenshots I posted in post #304 - once you are on that page, click on "Have A Question?" at the top of the page and it will show you a number you can call.


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## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2022)

Juliegomsu said:


> On Nov 10th I went to a sales talk at the Sheraton Desert Oasis which is Vistana points. The points or options I have are not the same as Marriott Points. They were of course looking for me to spend more money. I can try to transfer to a Marriott, but they say I will not have much chance because those who pay for the Abound will get in ahead of me. They wanted me to spend $12,000 for the Abound membership and then came down to ONLY $8000. Why wouldn't someone just purchase a Marriott resale? This was crazy and anyone who paid that was not informed correctly.


Marriott resale weeks are not in Abound.  You can buy resale MVC points and expect it to come up to about $7 to $8 per point and it is not a cheap proposition either.


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## DanCali (Dec 4, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> Marriott resale weeks are not in Abound.  You can buy resale MVC points and expect it to come up to about $7 to $8 per point and it is not a cheap proposition either.



And there much cheaper ways to get Club "points" by buying weeks in Spain (or Aruba), which do get enrolled in Abound becaused they are purchased from Marriott.

For example, this recent offer from Spain you can buy 9600 "points" for $26,000 (it's effectively 4 weeks, each worth 2400 points). That's $2.7 per point all in cost. The MFs on these weeks are also more economical than Trust points (in the range of $0.60 vs around $0.68 for Trust points), so you can come out ahead on all fronts. If you buy just 1 or 2 weeks the cost per week may be higher than $6500, but even if it were $10,000 for 2400 points ($4.17/point) it's still far cheaper than $7-$8 per point.

I've dealt with that sales office before and have a contact there - the offer is legit.









						Good sales offer to help increase ownership status
					

Just had a good offer, I would be interested if I was trying to get to Presidential or Chairmans but as already there I don't need more weeks.  4 weeks in Playa Andaluza Gold season Price - 26.000€/26.000$/22.000GBP First year use 2024 9600 points annually Gift 3000 DP  If interests anyone else...




					tugbbs.com


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## Covid hater (Dec 4, 2022)

Just tried to log in Vistana site is down.  When I was able to get in the site said I had  no points available.  I have made no travel plans for 2023.  Does it show no availability because I have not chose to convert to Abound points"?   Also when I click to check balances it only give me option of 2022 and nothing for 2023??

Thanks


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## Troyrissa (Dec 4, 2022)

Covid hater said:


> Just tried to log in Vistana site is down.  When I was able to get in the site said I had  no points available.  I have made no travel plans for 2023.  Does it show no availability because I have not chose to convert to Abound points"?   Also when I click to check balances it only give me option of 2022 and nothing for 2023??
> 
> Thanks


Correct, if you haven’t elected it will say you have no club points available. This confused me too and I had to call vistana.  But, if you go to elect club points on the vistana dashboard it will show you how many possible points you have per use year and VOI.


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## SGould (Dec 5, 2022)

Abound may be up but the website is consistently down!


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

This has probably been posted elsewhere already, but I haven't been able to keep up on the threads with limited internet access the last couple weeks. I saw this on the back of our MF bill for SVV 2BR Bella. I also notice I am getting billed the $270 Executive Club Fee by Vistana, I hope I don't receive a bill for the Club Fee from MVC.

_To Opt-Out of receiving the additional exchange opportunity and consolidated fee that replaces the separate transaction fees previously billed a la carte, please call/contact Owner Services at 1-888-SV-OWNER (1-888-786-9637) and you can opt out by paying the 2023 Club Dues amount of either $170.50 (for single week Owners) or $236.50 (for multi-week Owners). If you opt-out, please note that you will be responsible for paying separate transaction fees, will not receive the additional exchange opportunity and services through MVC Exchange Company, and will be automatically assigned to the Owner Membership Level in VSN and will not receive any benefits as a Grandfathered Elite Member, but rather benefits attributable to the Owner Membership Level including reservation windows, Bonvoy status, etc. In the event you opt out and want to later take advantage of the consolidated VSN Membership Fee for 2024 or subsequent years, you will also need to pay an enrollment fee which is currently $595.00 but subject to change from time to time._


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## dsmrp (Dec 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> This has probably been posted elsewhere already, but I haven't been able to keep up on the threads with limited internet access the last couple weeks. I saw this on the back of our MF bill for SVV 2BR Bella. I also notice I am getting billed the $270 Executive Club Fee by Vistana, I hope I don't receive a bill for the Club Fee from MVC.
> 
> _To Opt-Out of receiving the additional exchange opportunity and consolidated fee that replaces the separate transaction fees previously billed a la carte, please call/contact Owner Services at 1-888-SV-OWNER (1-888-786-9637) and you can opt out by paying the 2023 Club Dues amount of either $170.50 (for single week Owners) or $236.50 (for multi-week Owners). If you opt-out, please note that you will be responsible for paying separate transaction fees, will not receive the additional exchange opportunity and services through MVC Exchange Company, and will be automatically assigned to the Owner Membership Level in VSN and will not receive any benefits as a Grandfathered Elite Member, but rather benefits attributable to the Owner Membership Level including reservation windows, Bonvoy status, etc. In the event you opt out and want to later take advantage of the consolidated VSN Membership Fee for 2024 or subsequent years, you will also need to pay an enrollment fee which is currently $595.00 but subject to change from time to time._


Hmm this is the first time I'm hearing of a $595 enrollment fee if you don't choose to join Abound. I suppose though that one could pay the new club fee, but not elect club pts for 2023?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Hmm this is the first time I'm hearing of a $595 enrollment fee if you don't choose to join Abound. I suppose though that one could pay the new club fee, but not elect club pts for 2023?


You are automatically part of Abound. There is no opt in, enrolling or joining. If you are in VSN, you are in Abound. If you choose to opt out, it seems you can later opt back in by paying the, then current, enrollment fee. Being a member of Abound doesn't require to to elect Club Points for 2023 or any year.


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## CPNY (Dec 5, 2022)

dsmrp said:


> Hmm this is the first time I'm hearing of a $595 enrollment fee if you don't choose to join Abound. I suppose though that one could pay the new club fee, but not elect club pts for 2023?


This was reported on Facebook a week or two before abound was rolled out. Anyone who owns two enrolled VSN units should not opt out of abound. The club dues are only a few dollars more and come with so many more options to use the VOI.


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## dsmrp (Dec 5, 2022)

CPNY said:


> This was reported on Facebook a week or two before abound was rolled out. Anyone who owns two enrolled VSN units should not opt out of abound. The club dues are only a few dollars more and come with so many more options to use the VOI.


Yes, we'll pay the new fee. Worth it for the housekeeping charges. I just didn't see it billed yet to either of my units last week. I'll go check again.


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## TravelTime (Dec 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> This has probably been posted elsewhere already, but I haven't been able to keep up on the threads with limited internet access the last couple weeks. I saw this on the back of our MF bill for SVV 2BR Bella. I also notice I am getting billed the $270 Executive Club Fee by Vistana, I hope I don't receive a bill for the Club Fee from MVC.
> 
> _To Opt-Out of receiving the additional exchange opportunity and consolidated fee that replaces the separate transaction fees previously billed a la carte, please call/contact Owner Services at 1-888-SV-OWNER (1-888-786-9637) and you can opt out by paying the 2023 Club Dues amount of either $170.50 (for single week Owners) or $236.50 (for multi-week Owners). If you opt-out, please note that you will be responsible for paying separate transaction fees, will not receive the additional exchange opportunity and services through MVC Exchange Company, and will be automatically assigned to the Owner Membership Level in VSN and will not receive any benefits as a Grandfathered Elite Member, but rather benefits attributable to the Owner Membership Level including reservation windows, Bonvoy status, etc. In the event you opt out and want to later take advantage of the consolidated VSN Membership Fee for 2024 or subsequent years, you will also need to pay an enrollment fee which is currently $595.00 but subject to change from time to time._



Why would anyone want to opt out? It seems like you lose more than you gain. Are the club dues less if you opt out? Would there be any other reason to opt out?


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## CPNY (Dec 5, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Why would anyone want to opt out? It seems like you lose more than you gain. Are the club dues less if you opt out? Would there be any other reason to opt out?


There are people who own one VSN unit that only use their deeded week. They may want to save the extra cost in fees.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

CPNY said:


> There are people who own one VSN unit that only use their deeded week. They may want to save the extra cost in fees.


This is really the only reason that I am able to think of.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Dec 5, 2022)

We already booked 15 nights in north for this summer so we will sit back and learn from everyone's experiences for this next year. We typically have housekeeping fees so the new fee is worth it, even though we may never use Abound.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 5, 2022)

Is Vistana down for others?  I haven't been able to get in all morning.


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## timsi (Dec 5, 2022)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We already booked 15 nights in north for this summer so we will sit back and learn from everyone's experiences for this next year. We typically have housekeeping fees so the new fee is worth it, even though we may never use Abound.


This is a common misconception that we will save on housekeeping fees. Don't you think that in the future the maintenance fees will reflect higher housekeeping net costs? The housekeeping fees have been charged by the resorts.


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## timsi (Dec 5, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Is Vistana down for others?  I haven't been able to get in all morning.


It has been down intermittently in the last few days, mostly down for me in the last 24h.


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## timsi (Dec 5, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Why would anyone want to opt out? It seems like you lose more than you gain. Are the club dues less if you opt out? Would there be any other reason to opt out?


If they had kept 2 yr. banking for all the VSN members, a lot of owners would have opted out IMO. This is why they had to change it.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

timsi said:


> This is a common misconception that we will save on housekeeping fees. Don't you think that in the future the maintenance fees will reflect higher housekeeping net costs? The housekeeping fees have been charged by the resorts.


Yeah, over time the HK fee line item in the annual budget for the resorts will go up. Just like they did with MVC weeks years ago. Someone has to pay the extra housekeeping costs of short points based stays. As I understand, the only time that the HOA gets reimbursed for HK on Abound Points stays is when they are using Trust points.


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## daviator (Dec 5, 2022)

I suspect that owners are already paying for extra housekeeping.  I've never seen anything that leads me to think that extra housekeeping fees ever went back to the HOAs of the impacted properties.  So it's probably better this way, at least it's all more clear.  Short stays cost all owners more in housekeeping fees, but allowing short stays creates a system with more flexibility.  So maybe it's a wash.


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## bizaro86 (Dec 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Yeah, over time the HK fee line item in the annual budget for the resorts will go up. Just like they did with MVC weeks years ago. Someone has to pay the extra housekeeping costs of short points based stays. As I understand, the only time that the HOA gets reimbursed for HK on Abound Points stays is when they are using Trust points.



Speaking as a voluntary Vistana owner this cheeses me off. I get to pay for short stay housekeeping in my MFs with no associates benefits.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

bizaro86 said:


> Speaking as a voluntary Vistana owner this cheeses me off. I get to pay for short stay housekeeping in my MFs with no associates benefits.


But you are saving the Club Fee...


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## timsi (Dec 5, 2022)

bizaro86 said:


> Speaking as a voluntary Vistana owner this cheeses me off. I get to pay for short stay housekeeping in my MFs with no associates benefits.


Still unclear to me how many resorts have daily cleaning for the Bonvoy bookings and who pays for those.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2022)

timsi said:


> Still unclear to me how many resorts have daily cleaning for the Bonvoy bookings and who pays for those.


On the Marriott side, I know that MVC pays the HOA a set percentage for Bonvoy or Marriott.com reservations. I beleive the same is true for Encore Packages. I know this based on several annual BOD meetings that I attended at Grande Vista. The HOA doesn't bear the burden of daily housekeeping for those says.


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## timsi (Dec 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> On the Marriott side, I know that MVC pays the HOA a set percentage for Bonvoy or Marriott.com reservations. I beleive the same is true for Encore Packages. I know this based on several annual BOD meetings that I attended at Grande Vista. The HOA doesn't bear the burden of daily housekeeping for those says.


It kind of bothers me because the more daily housekeeping, the more time the cleaners have to spend, and it seems to happen more often that the rooms are not ready before 4PM. A friend of mine had to wait until 8PM during the summer to get his room. Maybe the higher volume of rentals is another reason why they took away the early check in late check out for the elite owners? Also, the amount is important, who is actually checking? I did not see any evidence in the WLR budget of such reimbursement.


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## bizaro86 (Dec 5, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> But you are saving the Club Fee...



I wasn't paying the club fee before, because I didn't/don't have club access. The difference is under VSN club members got only as many free housekeepings as they had intervals, so there was some incentive to conserve.

Abound has none of that  and I expect the average stay to go down over time and housekeeping costs to go up. That cost isn't being borne by those who are using the extra housekeeping any more, its being born equally by all owners including those who aren't even eligible for short stays.

Seems intrinsically unfair to me.

Edited to add: that would be extremely relevant if the club fees were paying for incremental housekeeping at the resorts, but I haven't seen any suggestion that is the case.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 6, 2022)

So, on the roulette wheel of randomness, today it appears all the Vistana availability has disappeared from Abound.  I tried 10 Vistana resorts for about 6 months and absolutely nothing shows up.  Assume it's a system glitch at the moment....but I thought I'd report it here for the morbidly curious amongst us.


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## Red elephant (Dec 6, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> So, on the roulette wheel of randomness, today it appears all the Vistana availability has disappeared from Abound.  I tried 10 Vistana resorts for about 6 months and absolutely nothing shows up.  Assume it's a system glitch at the moment....but I thought I'd report it here for the morbidly curious amongst us.


Wow oh wow. That did not last long.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 6, 2022)

Some inventory seems to be back....but nothing like what was there just yesterday.  I have been generally trying to monitor to get a sense of how inventory is moving.  Last night there was a lot of inventory across a wide range of Vistana resorts throughout the year.  Now I am seeing nothing at a lot of resorts.  Inventory seemed to just disappear overnight, which leads me to believe there was some sort of change in the system.


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## cubigbird (Dec 6, 2022)

Maybe they realized Vistana inventory was showing in Abound and shouldn’t have? Wasn’t it commented at launch day about how much Vistana was showing available in Abound?


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## vistana101 (Dec 6, 2022)

Frustrating that you cannot see availability without electing first. Ugh.


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## triangulum33 (Dec 7, 2022)

I called in today to check on Abound availability for Sheraton Kauai Villas and there was nothing April - June.


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## SteveS1 (Dec 7, 2022)

triangulum33 said:


> I called in today to check on Abound availability for Sheraton Kauai Villas and there was nothing April - June.


Seems that’s a bug. I was at that resort last week when Abound opened up for us and found plenty of availability.. now I see nothing showing up for the whole year.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 7, 2022)

SteveS1 said:


> Seems that’s a bug. I was at that resort last week when Abound opened up for us and found plenty of availability.. now I see nothing showing up for the whole year.


It is either a bug or the bug was when they first launched Abound and all that inventory that people were seeing shouldn't have really been here.


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## TravelTime (Dec 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It is either a bug or the bug was when they first launched Abound and all that inventory that people were seeing shouldn't have really been here.



I do not understand why people are saying it was a bug that the Vistana inventory was showing up in Abound when it should not have been there. Where should the inventory have been instead?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 7, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I do not understand why people are saying it was a bug that the Vistana inventory was showing up in Abound when it should not have been there. Where should the inventory have been instead?


I am not saying it was a bug, but that it could have been. We don't know the answers but perhaps it was somehow still supposed to just be VSN inventory but was somehow also showing up in Abound. Much of it is gone now, so either it wasn't supposed to be there and they fixed it or they broke something that is preventing it from showing up now.


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## TravelTime (Dec 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not saying it was a bug, but that it could have been. We don't know the answers but perhaps it was somehow still supposed to just be VSN inventory but was somehow also showing up in Abound. Much of it is gone now, so either it wasn't supposed to be there and they fixed it or they broke something that is preventing it from showing up now.



Another theory could be that they put inventory in for the first day of the soft launch on purpose so they could get some positive talk started about inventory availability. This makes people optimistic that there will be good inventory again. Perhaps on the hard launch day, we will see more inventory again. But it will get booked quickly probably and “disappear” again.


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## Myrddin12 (Dec 7, 2022)

timsi said:


> You are completely missing the point. It does not matter if Marriott owns any inventory, it is just another owner like everyone else. How did they book these Christmas weeks that are currently not available to the Vistana resort owners? The VSN rules mention that during the Home Resort Reservation Period the owners the exclusive right to book without competition from non-owners. If this is true, it is clearly against the rules.


I may have misunderstood the details, but it looks like anyone can book at 13 months out if you are booking 7+ days - so that would give an advantage to them over an owner if the owner just wanted to book 6 days, let's say.  Not thrilled with that as sometimes we do quick trips of 4 or 5 days.  Hopefully I misunderstood, but it looks like what you said is true also.


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## needvaca (Dec 7, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Another theory could be that they put inventory in for the first day of the soft launch on purpose so they could get some positive talk started about inventory availability. This makes people optimistic that there will be good inventory again. Perhaps on the hard launch day, we will see more inventory again. But it will get booked quickly probably and “disappear” again.


or MVC realized (after reading these threads) that they put up way more inventory than they had the rights to.  Not many VSN members have elected to points yet, and MVC's inventory is more limited than the full calendar of availability they were showing for VSN prime properties, like Maui, Kierland, etc.  
probably realized they needed to back down before they created serious problems for themselves (lawsuits?)


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## TravelTime (Dec 7, 2022)

needvaca said:


> or MVC realized (after reading these threads) that they put up way more inventory than they had the rights to.  Not many VSN members have elected to points yet, and MVC's inventory is more limited than the full calendar of availability they were showing for VSN prime properties, like Maui, Kierland, etc.
> probably realized they needed to back down before they created serious problems for themselves (lawsuits?)



How would they add inventory they have no right to add?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 7, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> How would they add inventory they have no right to add?


System error, over forecasting the number of owners that would elect for Abound Club Points or just a plain screwup. Mistakes do happen, much more often than you think.


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## timsi (Dec 7, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> How would they add inventory they have no right to add?


With the risk of sounding like a broken record,  this is why the home resort reservation period is very important and should not be tempered with. 8-12 months just owners, if you see any inventory available for exchangers, it is against the rules as I read them. At least the Vistana owners should have that control. How can anyone trust the system otherwise, when we can't tell if it is a mistake, a feature, a human or a system error, where the inventory was coming from and nobody from Marriott will even bother to come with an explanation?


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## timsi (Dec 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> System error, over forecasting the number of owners that would elect for Abound Club Points or just a plain screwup. Mistakes do happen, much more often than you think.


Not good either way.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 7, 2022)

Rampant speculation on my part, but there were about 6 reservations I was looking at....trying to sort out "election" issues.  I notice availability that disappeared happens to closely match that still available for rental on Marriott.com.  Perhaps someone coded Abound access incorrectly and people were booking up MVCs rental units?


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## ocdb8r (Dec 7, 2022)

timsi said:


> With the risk of sounding like a broken record,  this is why the home resort reservation period is very important and should not be tempered with. 8-12 months just owners, if you see any inventory available for exchangers, it is against the rules as I read them. At least the Vistana owners should have that control. How can anyone can trust the system otherwise when we can't tell if it is a mistake, a feature, a human or a system error, where the inventory was coming from and nobody from Marriott will even bother to come with an explanation?


The HRPP (and anyone's interpretation of it) has little to nothing to do with what happened (or verifying what happened).  There was widespread availability for Kierland in February/March 2023, for which respect of the HRPP (regardless of which interpretation of it) would not have explained.  Seeing availability in one system or the other is never going to give you a sufficient picture of what is actually going on behind the scenes.


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## aimersyo (Dec 7, 2022)

Sorry if this was already asked and answered, but if I have a little bit left for 2023 (~18k star options), can I elect to convert that and also convert 2024 into one pot for an Abound reservation?  I am hesitant to test it out.  Thanks!


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## DanCali (Dec 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> System error, over forecasting the number of owners that would elect for Abound Club Points or just a plain screwup. Mistakes do happen, much more often than you think.



That's true. But this is the kind of stuff that leads to various conspiracy theories, whether they are justified or not. 

The whole idea that they can forecast how a group of new Abound member (who are not necessarily starting out as fans of the MVC brand, not used to "skim", not used to electing points months before a use year, etc) will behave seems a bit ridiculous, so I would hope the forecasting is very conservative for the first few years.


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## DanCali (Dec 7, 2022)

aimersyo said:


> Sorry if this was already asked and answered, but if I have a little bit left for 2023 (~18k star options), can I elect to convert that and also convert 2024 into one pot for an Abound reservation?  I am hesitant to test it out.  Thanks!



You can only convert an entire week into Abound. If you have 18K staroptions at this point in the year, you either use them or lose them (unless you are 5-Star Elite, in which case they are bankable till December 31, at least for now)


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## ocdb8r (Dec 7, 2022)

aimersyo said:


> Sorry if this was already asked and answered, but if I have a little bit left for 2023 (~18k star options), can I elect to convert that and also convert 2024 into one pot for an Abound reservation?  I am hesitant to test it out.  Thanks!


Assuming you are talking about "Home Options" (trust points), frustratingly, you are just below the threshold.  Per the FAQs you must elect in "in increments of *20,000* Home Options".  If this is a leftover part of a week VOI, no you must convert whole weeks only (and the whole unit you own).


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## dioxide45 (Dec 7, 2022)

aimersyo said:


> Sorry if this was already asked and answered, but if I have a little bit left for 2023 (~18k star options), can I elect to convert that and also convert 2024 into one pot for an Abound reservation?  I am hesitant to test it out.  Thanks!


No, you must convert an entire VOI. If you own HomeOptions from one of the Flex programs, you can elect in 20K increments. You can't elect StarOptions for Abound Club Points.


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## aimersyo (Dec 7, 2022)

DanCali said:


> You can only convert an entire week into Abound. If you have 18K staroptions at this point in the year, you either use them or lose them (unless you are 5-Star Elite, in which case they are bankable till December 31, at least for now)



These are 2023 partial home options, not 2022, so plenty of time to bank.  It's giving me the option to convert them also in Abound as of right now, not sure what happens if I actually try that. 

Edit:  I tried it and it says you need 20K to convert.  I wonder if next year I bank them, I can then used my banked options and my regular 2024 options combined to convert.


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## aimersyo (Dec 7, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Assuming you are talking about "Home Options" (trust points), frustratingly, you are just below the threshold.  Per the FAQs you must elect in "in increments of *20,000* Home Options".  If this is a leftover part of a week VOI, no you must convert whole weeks only (and the whole unit you own).


Yes, I meant home, I own Westin Flex.  I never know the difference in terminology.  Thanks!


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## dioxide45 (Dec 7, 2022)

aimersyo said:


> These are 2023 partial home options, not 2022, so plenty of time to bank.  It's giving me the option to convert them also in Abound as of right now, not sure what happens if I actually try that.
> 
> Edit:  I tried it and it says you need 20K to convert.  I wonder if next year I bank them, I can then used my banked options and my regular 2024 options combined to convert.


You can't elect on Banked options. Once you bank, your HomeOptions become StarOptions and can only be used in VSN.


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## timsi (Dec 7, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> The HRPP (and anyone's interpretation of it) has little to nothing to do with what happened (or verifying what happened).  There was widespread availability for Kierland in February/March 2023, for which respect of the HRPP (regardless of which interpretation of it) would not have explained.  Seeing availability in one system or the other is never going to give you a sufficient picture of what is actually going on behind the scenes.


The only time we have control is during the  HRPP when exchangers are not supposed to book (you already know my position, so let's not debate this). In the first day, I could see inventory not only for Kierland in February but also for Lagunamar in December 2023 including 51 and 52! My point is that yes, it was very odd what you saw at WKV, but in normal times you could find a plausible explanation and move on. The only protection we have is the HRRP because you do not need a special environment like at launch to know that certain weeks should not be in Abound at certain times.


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## timsi (Dec 7, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> No, you must convert an entire VOI. If you own HomeOptions from one of the Flex programs, you can elect in 20K increments. You can't elect StarOptions for Abound Club Points.


This is so odd I find. You can give them 20k Homeoptions, and that is fine, even if it represents a fraction of a week spread on several resorts but you can't elect a 1BR premium if you own a 2 BR lockoff!


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## ocdb8r (Dec 7, 2022)

timsi said:


> This is so odd I find. You can give them 20k Homeoptions, and that is fine, even if it represents a fraction of a week spread on several resorts but you can't elect a 1BR premium if you own a 2 BR lockoff!


I suspect it was an unsatisfying compromise for MVC as well.  Note that also does not apply to any "single-resort" Home Options such as Nanea or the various (trust) phases of St. John where you are also required to deposit your full ownership of Home Options (not just in 20k increments).  

For MVC weeks they also make you deposit all or nothing when you "elect" for points.


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## Venter (Dec 7, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> How would they add inventory they have no right to add?


Hence the speculation of a bug.


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## DanCali (Dec 7, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> For MVC weeks they also make you deposit all or nothing when you "elect" for points.



This is true but I am not sure MVC ever sold their "guest rooms" (aka studio) as separate deeds. And the guest rooms are not really timeshare units because the kitchens are truly limited, no washer/dryer, etc. Is they sold studios separately, I suspect the MFs for the studio + 1BR would exceed the MFs of the 2R but the way it is in most MVC resorts the MF difference between a 1BR and a 2BR (or between a 2BR and a 3BR) is minimal ($200-$300).

At Vistana you literally had salespeople playing with puzzle pieces and explaining how smaller + small = large and that equal sign applied to: purchase price, maintenance fees, and Staroptions. I suspect many of those who bought for Staroptions to trade internally would have chosen to buy 2 smaller units for the same price instead of the single lockoff deed because, besides the ability to book a 2BR at 8-12 months out), everything would have been the same. And there is a 15%-20% premium in Abound.


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## kozykritter (Dec 7, 2022)

aimersyo said:


> These are 2023 partial home options, not 2022, so plenty of time to bank.  It's giving me the option to convert them also in Abound as of right now, not sure what happens if I actually try that.
> 
> Edit:  I tried it and it says you need 20K to convert.  I wonder if next year I bank them, I can then used my banked options and my regular 2024 options combined to convert.


You can only convert unbanked usage so you won't be able to combine usage from different years to meet a conversion threshold, unfortunately.


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## ccclement250 (Dec 7, 2022)

MVC 2023 points chart -



			https://vacationpointexchange.com/pointschart/points_charts_2023.pdf


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## kozykritter (Dec 9, 2022)

Here's an update on my access experience as a dual MVC-Vistana owner, in case it helps someone.

On the Vistana.com side I could convert to Abound (which I did) and my account showed Executive status (3*) but checking my Club Point balance or trying to make a Club Point reservation both yielded error messages once the pages I was redirected to loaded on MVC's website. On the MVC website account side, reservations worked and I could see my MVC Club Point balance but not my Vistana elected Club Points. Also my Executive status from the Vistana side was not being applied to my MVC account, leaving me down at Owner/Member level. Clearly something was not linked up!

After many phone calls with well-meaning reps with Vistana and MVC, we figured out half the problem. Before I became a MVC owner earlier this year, I had made and rescinded a MVC purchase in 2019. During that process MVC created an owner account for me and left it floating around the system after rescission rather than closing it. Instead of using that existing owner account this year when I bought, they created a second owner account and put my MVC points in there. However as part of the Vistana system merger, they associated my Vistana account and its Executive status with that abandon MVC owner account. It took 10 minutes for MVC to merge the two MVC owner accounts into the newer one with the points and then my MVC account finally showed Executive. The rep said she could now also see my VSN elected Club Points sitting in my MVC account next to my MVC points. However that status update came at a price as now I can't view my Club Point balance at all in my MVC account, same as when I click through Vistana.com. The only way to see my CP balance is to make a reservation through my MVC account and when it gets to the point allocation page, it displays all of my MVC and VSN elected CP balances. Progress, at least! I used those VSN elected points in combination with my MVC to make reservations through my MVC account. When I tried to make a CP reservation via Vistana.com, the reservation tool was working for me now but it gave me a message that indicated that I could only book reservations using my VSN elected CP alone (i.e. that method of access is not combining with existing MVC CP yet). Very interesting!

So it appears that the MVC system Vacation Club Point balance page can't yet handle displaying VSN elected points (for some users at least) which is why is crashes out with an "Apologies" message regardless of whether I access it from Vistana.com or the MVC website.


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## TravelTime (Dec 10, 2022)

I was just checking Vistana inventory out of curiosity. I saw a lot of inventory of all unit sizes for Westin Princeville. I saw some for less than 7 days for Westin Cancun. I did not check everything but perhaps this means Marriott did not pull all inventory out and a lot of it was booked in the first few days by members.


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## timsi (Dec 10, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> I was just checking Vistana inventory out of curiosity. I saw a lot of inventory of all unit sizes for Westin Princeville. I saw some for less than 7 days for Westin Cancun. I did not check everything but perhaps this means Marriott did not pull all inventory out and a lot of it was booked in the first few days by members.


Westin Princeville is one of the 3 Vistana resorts that was conveyed to the trust in August. Marriott owns 100% of Westin Cancun. All the other resorts that had plenty of availability have been gone for few days.


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## wjarcher (Dec 10, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Here's an update on my access experience as a dual MVC-Vistana owner, in case it helps someone.
> 
> On the Vistana.com side I could convert to Abound (which I did) and my account showed Executive status (3*) but checking my Club Point balance or trying to make a Club Point reservation both yielded error messages once the pages I was redirected to loaded on MVC's website. On the MVC website account side, reservations worked and I could see my MVC Club Point balance but not my Vistana elected Club Points. Also my Executive status from the Vistana side was not being applied to my MVC account, leaving me down at Owner/Member level. Clearly something was not linked up!
> 
> ...


My account has the same displaying issue, but it does not affect me making reservations. I can see both Vistana elected points and my Marriott points once it lets me choose what points to use. Figured that it is some kind of issue due to the merge.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Dec 11, 2022)

I don't see a way through the MVC "portal" via Vistana.com to view Explorer Collection offerings like cruises and tours? Am I just missing it?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 11, 2022)

timsi said:


> Westin Princeville is one of the 3 Vistana resorts that was conveyed to the trust in August. Marriott owns 100% of Westin Cancun. All the other resorts that had plenty of availability have been gone for few days.


I can't find the post now, but someone previously reported that there were no Westin resorts available in II getaway and they speculated that perhaps they had been pulled to try and fill reservations that may have been made with "phantom" inventory. I don't know if that is true and it is also quite possible that Westin getaways really aren't that significant anyway, especially leading in to busy season for where most Westin Resorts are located.

I do think it is strange that there was a lot of inventory that wasn't available in VSN nor for owners, but in Abound on day 1 but is now gone. I suppose it could all have just been taken or just as easily been a mistake and it shouldn't have been made available in the first place. If it was phantom inventory, then MVC will probably do whatever it takes to fulfil the reservations rather than cancel and have egg on their face.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 11, 2022)

It looks like they took away the StarOption summary that used to show up at the top of the Dashboard on VIstana.com? Now the only way to get to it is to scroll down the ACCOUNT BALANCES tile on the Dashboard and click on DETAILS.


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## DanCali (Dec 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It looks like they took away the StarOption summary that used to show up at the top of the Dashboard on VIstana.com? Now the only way to get to it is to scroll down the ACCOUNT BALANCES tile on the Dashboard and click on DETAILS.



You can also get to it from the link on the top right (where it says Welcome, [your name]) and click on the word "STAROPTIONS" under Balances. That's accessible from any page on the website.


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## kozykritter (Dec 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't see a way through the MVC "portal" via Vistana.com to view Explorer Collection offerings like cruises and tours? Am I just missing it?


Nope, not there. Goes back to my theory that they focused on giving rudimentary access to MVC's system upfront, just enough for Vistana owners to elect and book points. I suspect they'll add more in as they go along, including transferring points.


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## timsi (Dec 11, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It looks like they took away the StarOption summary that used to show up at the top of the Dashboard on VIstana.com? Now the only way to get to it is to scroll down the ACCOUNT BALANCES tile on the Dashboard and click on DETAILS.


First the calendar, now the summary, I thought the IT was busy but it seems they just have other priorities.


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## grrrah (Dec 12, 2022)

Had an interesting and somewhat informative call today.  I wasn't planning to enroll my '23 week, but decided to after some MVC inventory was still there for this coming spring break.  Apologies if the below is already known info as I haven't gone through the whole thread.

I couldn't enroll my EOY nanea online and had to call in.  CSR incorrectly told me it was because I could do 20k increments since its points based (but she was wrong and as we know we need to deposit whole VOI).  Not sure why, but Nanea has to be called in to elect.

My SVV week MF statement includes the $170 VSN fee (not the abound fee), and my Nanea week is blank.  She tried to say that was because it's not certain yet that resale mandatory weeks will be eligible for Abound (even though I said it is allowing me to elect club points already for the resale weeks and my OBL reflects the week in the system).  She mentioned nothing is certain until January 1st and I may get an abound membership fee statement separately for the Nanea week.  Anyone enroll an resale week yet?  As others have reported it sounds like Jan 1 is when everything will be official and resale week eligibility will be confirmed.

I asked about member-to-member point transfers and how can we find our account#.  She mentioned it should be the contract number we have in VSN, but didn't sound confident and mentioned I should ask on the MVC side.  I noticed in the MVC portal after I made a reservation and clicked on the reservation details, it shows me a "Contract #" that is different from both my Vistana weeks.

She mentioned that I would need to bank points before booking a 2024 week, which seems to be true when I try to book a Jan 2024 week now, but just wondering, once I bank, will we be able to bank multiple times before the deadline? I figure I should only bank the points I want to use to book a room, up until the deadline.. I didn't get to ask this question.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 12, 2022)

The big problem with Owner Services, and Customer Service at pretty much any company is that they simply make up shitty answers instead of find out for you or just say they don't know. I would rather hear an "I don't know" than a wrong or made up answer to get me off the phone and onto the next person.


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## grrrah (Dec 13, 2022)

yeah, she was clearly mistaken about Nanea, but it really sounded like she knew the resale mandatory purchases were in, but not allowed to confirm until January 1st when things are official.  This stemmed from me asking about my invoices.

Do we know yet if we have to pay banking fees for weeks remaining within VSN and not elected into Abound?  This was another question I asked and she was saying to wait until Jan 1st for everything to be official and would confirm.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 13, 2022)

grrrah said:


> yeah, she was clearly mistaken about Nanea, but it really sounded like she knew the resale mandatory purchases were in, but not allowed to confirm until January 1st when things are official.  This stemmed from me asking about my invoices.
> 
> Do we know yet if we have to pay banking fees for weeks remaining within VSN and not elected into Abound?  This was another question I asked and she was saying to wait until Jan 1st for everything to be official and would confirm.


All VOIs are in Abound, electing Club Points would negate banking StarOptions anyway. So all VOIs that are in Abound are eligible for the consolidated fee structure.


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## owl (Dec 13, 2022)

This has been a very helpful thread so far.  Thank you for everyone who has contributed.

Question: if I want to add to my ownership through resale Vistana to add to my ownership and have it add to this new Abound partnership, is it still possible, now that it is past the August 2022 deadline?  If not possible, what happens to resale weeks from Vistana mandatory resorts purchased today?

Thank you.


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## byeloe (Dec 13, 2022)

owl said:


> This has been a very helpful thread so far.  Thank you for everyone who has contributed.
> 
> Question: if I want to add to my ownership through resale Vistana to add to my ownership and have it add to this new Abound partnership, is it still possible, now that it is past the August 2022 deadline?  If not possible, what happens to resale weeks from Vistana mandatory resorts purchased today?
> 
> Thank you.


you would have to requalify it with a developer purchase.
otherwise you just have access to the VSN


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## dioxide45 (Dec 13, 2022)

owl said:


> This has been a very helpful thread so far.  Thank you for everyone who has contributed.
> 
> Question: if I want to add to my ownership through resale Vistana to add to my ownership and have it add to this new Abound partnership, is it still possible, now that it is past the August 2022 deadline?  If not possible, what happens to resale weeks from Vistana mandatory resorts purchased today?
> 
> Thank you.


What we understand at this point is, if you buy additional VSN eligible VOIs they can still use VSN StarOptions but they don't have access to elect Abound Club Points. It also seems that they will have an additional VSN Fee. So you would be paying the Abound Club Fee on your eligible weeks and the VSN Fee on the post 8/9 resale week.


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## owl (Dec 13, 2022)

Thank you for your responses, @byeloe and @dioxide45.

I'll be headed to WKORV in March, so it sounds like a good time for a refresher.

I also have my 2023 use year booked into two summer weeks at WKORV and WKORV-N that I might consider canceling so that I can try playing with the Abound system, if I can find some fun destinations that match my 6th grader's school schedule.


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