# At Brewster Green now



## Greg G (Oct 2, 2016)

At Brewster Green now.  Weather was rainy yesterday and the day before.  Supposed to gradual dry out during the week.  Have a seal tour scheduled for Wed out to Monomy island. Got take-out from Sir Crickets Fish and Chips last night, not bad.  I got the shrimp, my wife the Fish and Chips, and we tried some clams strips as well although both of us determined we weren't really clam strips type people.  The drive from Boston to Brewster Green was very tiring as it was raining and the traffic was slow.  Also that was the first time I've seen the breakdown lane legally used as a 3rd lane at times on some stretches of the Highway.  Pretty weird to see cars in the break down lane.  Some one trying to get to the rest area off to the side almost got into an accident with someone in the break down lane in front of us.

Greg


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## mdurette (Oct 2, 2016)

Greg G said:


> and we tried some clams strips as well although both of us determined we weren't really clam strips type people.
> Greg




I was surprised you even saw clam strips on the menu.   I though for sure all of New England ate the whole clam (belly and all) when having fried clams!   Strips I always considered some sort of frozen battered thing that had no resemblance to a clam at all.

The weather should turn a bit....but today still gray outside.

Oh yeah...full disclosure, I'm not a fan of clams, they need to be hidden in a clam cake, stuffed quahog or chowda for me to eat one.


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## silentg (Oct 2, 2016)

Greg G said:


> At Brewster Green now.  Weather was rainy yesterday and the day before.  Supposed to gradual dry out during the week.  Have a seal tour scheduled for Wed out to Monomy island. Got take-out from Sir Crickets Fish and Chips last night, not bad.  I got the shrimp, my wife the Fish and Chips, and we tried some clams strips as well although both of us determined we weren't really clam strips type people.  The drive from Boston to Brewster Green was very tiring as it was raining and the traffic was slow.  Also that was the first time I've seen the breakdown lane legally used as a 3rd lane at times on some stretches of the Highway.  Pretty weird to see cars in the break down lane.  Some one trying to get to the rest area off to the side almost got into an accident with someone in the break down lane in front of us.
> 
> Greg


We stayed there in April 2015,  ours was  nice weather but was cold, but we had whole family with us. Loved the roomy space and the feel of your own house. Traffic is always heavy traveling from Boston to Cape Cod. but once you get there it is so nice. As for clams I love all kinds fried, whole belly, steamed, chowder, stuffed. Also cannot stay on the cape without having one lobster dinner at least. I hope the weather clears up for you and you can enjoy the rest of your stay. One question, how are the units? When we were there they were remodeling some of them, due to storm damage. We had a two bedroom.
Silentg


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2016)

Ok, was greeted by this guy out on the deck today.  There were about 8 turkeys just walking around the back yard of the unit I'm in which abuts the golf course.


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2016)

Yes , they also had clam belly's but I'd seen clam strips before and thought we'd try them.  Tonight I'm getting lobster.  Since it was still dreary but not rainy we went to the Cape Cod Mall in Hyannis today and my wife proceeded to unload our entire savings (ok, just seemed like that).
silentg, I'm in 3 bedroom unit #4 (will post pictures in a bit) which is in very good shape.  Not sure what refurbished units look like but I'm guessing this one was refurbished to some extent as it has a large flat screen TV in the living room, bathroom showers and caulking looked new, carpet showed no wear at all (very short nap carpet).   Walls didn't have marks so probably were repainted.  Wifi speed is pretty good from our unit.

Greg


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## silentg (Oct 2, 2016)

Greg G said:


> Yes , they also had clam belly's but I'd seen clam strips before and thought we'd try them.  Tonight I'm getting lobster.  Since it was still dreary but not rainy we went to the Cape Cod Mall in Hyannis today and my wife proceeded to unload our entire savings (ok, just seemed like that).
> silentg, I'm in 3 bedroom unit #4 (will post pictures in a bit) which is in very good shape.  Not sure what refurbished units look like but I'm guessing this one was refurbished to some extent as it has a large flat screen TV in the living room, bathroom showers and caulking looked new, carpet showed no wear at all (very short nap carpet).   Walls didn't have marks so probably were repainted.  Wifi speed is pretty good from our unit.
> 
> Greg



Probably is one that was refurbished. I like the roominess of the resort. Not sure I would like the turkey hanging out on the deck though. Have fun!
Silentg


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## theo (Oct 3, 2016)

Greg G said:


> <snip>....they also had clam belly's but I'd seen clam strips before and thought we'd try them. <snip>



You may know this already anyhow, but "clam strips" are actually from (less expensive and more easily harvested) sea clams, which is an *entirely different species* from the "soft shell" clams which are almost always sold and prepared as either (whole and naked) "steamers" or (shucked and battered) "fried clams", bellies and all.

In younger days, we used to snorkel in shallow coastal Cape Cod waters for (hard shelled) sea clams, the inner contents of which would be ground up in their entirety in the making of "baked stuffed clams", mixed in with bread crumbs, finely chopped vegetables and seasonings -- -and then served in the seperated halves of the shells. Personally, I always felt that sea clams were *much* better tasting than the littlenecks, cherrystones, or quahogs (all three just being various sizes of *another* hard shelled clam species) also often used in making "baked stuffed clams".

Fwiw, Howard Johnson restaurants of yesteryear used *sea clam* strips (no bellies) for their "Tendersweet fried clams". I don't recall that HoJo's went out of their way to make it  known that they were *not* using the soft shell clams used by most everyone else for fried clams. Maybe most people didn't / don't much care anyhow.


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## Glynda (Oct 3, 2016)

*Clams and Lobster*

I adore steamers (clams).  Better even than lobster.  So when I am in New England, I try to eat them everywhere.  The best we found on the Cape were at Moby Dick's at Wellfleet.  Talked to the owner and he said that their's are from the Chatham area.  He said he likes them because they have less sand and I found that to be true over most that I had.  YUMMY!  They had good lobster too.

I also love fried clams though not the kind with the huge bellies.  We found the best fried clams at The Lobster Claw at Orleans.  But we were not very happy with their lobster.

Our favorite restaurants in the area in addition to the above are Marshside in Dennis, The Brewster Fish House, The Impudent Oyster and The Chatham Pier Fish Market in Chatham.


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## tonyg (Oct 3, 2016)

Greg - for dinner some night you should try Chapins in Dennis. Great fish&chips and affordable. Off 6A west of Brewster- get directions and they have a website.


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## Greg G (Oct 3, 2016)

theo, no I didn't know the difference between the clam strips and bellys.  Interesting.    We tried to go to JTs Seafood restaurant for lobster but it closed that very day for the season.  Went to Cobies for a quick meal of fried scallops and shrimp.  Pretty good, scallps were tender.   So I'm trying to find a good lobster place to go to tonight.  Was considering The lobster claw, or Arnolds but sounds like maybe the lobster claw is not the best to go to. Any other suggestions?
silentg,  yes I like the layout of the resort.  3 bedroom unit is very roomy.

Greg


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## Glynda (Oct 3, 2016)

*3 bedroom*

Does the 3 bedroom have a bedroom and bath downstairs?


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## Glynda (Oct 3, 2016)

*Clams*



theo said:


> You may know this already anyhow, but "clam strips" are actually from (less expensive and more easily harvested) sea clams, which is an *entirely different species* from the "soft shell" clams which are almost always sold and prepared as either (whole and naked) "steamers" or (shucked and battered) "fried clams", bellies and all.
> 
> As kids, we used to snorkel shallow coastal water for (hard shelled) sea clams, which would later get ground up in their entirety in the making of "baked stuffed clams", mixed in with bread crumbs, some finely chopped vegetables and seasonings. Personally, I always felt that in that preparation, sea clams were *much* better tasting than the littlenecks, cherrystones, or quahogs (all being various sizes of *another* hard shelled clam species) also often used in making "baked stuffed clams".
> 
> Fwiw, Howard Johnson restaurants of yesteryear used *sea clam* strips (no bellies) for their "Tendersweet fried clams". I don't recall that HoJo's went out of their way to make it  known that they were *not* using the soft shell clams used by most everyone else for fried clams. Maybe most people didn't / don't much care anyhow.



I used to love Howard Johnson's fried clam strips sandwich!  

So what are the fried clams with the big, round, musky tasting bellies that seem more prevalent around Mystic, Connecticut and into coastal MA?  I have no problem with soft shell steamer bellies, they aren't usually that big.


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## Greg G (Oct 3, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Does the 3 bedroom have a bedroom and bath downstairs?



Glynda,  yes the 3 bedroom has a bathroom and bedroom (the master bedroom) downstairs. The bathroom downstairs has an entrance door from the Master bedroom and from the foyer entrance area.

Here are a few pictures of unit 4B










Master bedroom


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## Greg G (Oct 3, 2016)

1st floor bathroom (entrances via master bedroom and hall foyer doors)


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## Greg G (Oct 3, 2016)

Went to Arnolds in Eastham tonight for lobster.  Pretty good, wasn't overcooked, and included corn on the cob, melted butter, and clam chowder.  I also got their thin onion ring strings which were good as well.  My wife had the baked salmon which was good after she scraped off the top glaze which she didn't care for.   Got a big hot fudge sunday there as well. Spent about $71 for dinner.   Arnolds only takes cash or local checks.

Greg


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## Glynda (Oct 3, 2016)

*Photos*

Thanks for the photos of the 3 bedroom 4B!


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## theo (Oct 4, 2016)

Greg G said:


> theo, no I didn't know the difference between the clam strips and bellys.  Interesting.    We tried to go to JTs Seafood restaurant for lobster but it closed that very day for the season.  Went to Cobies for a quick meal of fried scallops and shrimp.  Pretty good, scallps were tender.   So I'm trying to find a good lobster place to go to tonight.  Was considering The lobster claw, or Arnolds but sounds like maybe the lobster claw is not the best to go to. Any other suggestions?
> 
> Greg



Personally, I can't imagine how anyone could "botch" the simple boiling of water to cook a lobster. I'd suggest getting it without much contemplation or hesitation where you conveniently find it. I can't see how there could be a dime's bit of difference, except maybe in much more elaborate lobster dishes. 

Sometimes in warmer periods, "soft shell" (recently shedded / new shell) lobsters are offered and they tend to be considerably less meaty, having just put a whole lot of their life energy into growing and then changing into a bigger suit (shell). At this time of year, that's not really much of a concern or issue.


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## theo (Oct 4, 2016)

Glynda said:


> So what are the *fried* clams with the big, round, musky tasting bellies that seem more prevalent around Mystic, Connecticut and into coastal MA?  I have no problem with soft shell steamer bellies, they aren't usually that big.



Connecticut? Is that the place with blue and white license plates, unofficially part of New York? I have no idea what those people do / eat there (just joking). 

Littlenecks (smaller), cherrystones (larger) and quahogs (largest) are all the very same species of a hard shell clam (...but they are not the same species as sea clams), but I've never known of anyone, anywhere to *fry* them in any of their three size categories. I can't  imagine that they would be palatable *fried*.

*So*......if what you are describing is not actually fried soft shell clams (with which you seem to be familiar and experienced), then I must assume that what you are describing is actually shucked and battered fried *oysters* (...I *love* 'em). Oysters are found and available in virtually *any* part of coastal New England. There are some impressive oyster "farming" operations in the coastal waters in and around Damariscotta, Maine. In Wellfleet, MA (lower Cape Cod, bay side, harbor area) they have some allocated / managed oyster "beds", but I think that's less of an actual oyster "farming" operation and more of a a "growing and harvesting in specifically allocated places" operation.


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## Glynda (Oct 4, 2016)

*Oysters*



theo said:


> Connecticut? Is that the place with blue and white license plates, unofficially part of New York? I have no idea what those people do / eat there (just joking).
> 
> Littlenecks (smaller), cherrystones (larger) and quahogs (largest) are all the very same species of a hard shell clam (...but they are not the same species as sea clams), but I've never known of anyone, anywhere to *fry* them in any of their three size categories. I can't  imagine that they would be palatable *fried*.
> 
> *So*......if what you are describing is not actually fried soft shell clams (with which you seem to be familiar and experienced), then I must assume that what you are describing is actually shucked and battered fried *oysters* (...I *love* 'em). Oysters are found and available in virtually *any* part of coastal New England. There are some impressive oyster "farming" operations in the coastal waters in and around Damariscotta, Maine. In Wellfleet, MA (lower Cape Cod, bay side, harbor area) they have some allocated / managed oyster "beds", but I think that's less of an actual oyster "farming" operation and more of a a "growing and harvesting in specifically allocated places" operation.



Theo!  Born and raised in Ft Myers, Florida.  Summered in parents' second home at Lamoine Point, Maine.  Live in Charleston, SC.  I *KNOW*  an oyster! I love 'em any way I can get 'em! Had them raw last night! No, these were said to be "whole bellied fried clams."  And those things had a tough neck with big, round bellies that tasted all muddy and murky.  What I know as "steamers," or "soft shells," (though they don't actually seem to be soft but a thinner shell than most clams) are what they toss in the netted bag and steam at lobster pounds all over coastal Maine and are served on the Cape too and I did have once in Mystic. We even get them (steamers/soft shells) in grocery stores sometimes here in SC, but they never taste as good. Somewhat oval shaped though slightly pointed on the ends, not too big, a long neck that has a skin to be pulled off, and a belly, but not exactly a big, round, ball shaped one as I seem to remember on the ones I was describing. I just wondered if those were Quahogs?  They never fry those?

Anyway, though steamers are my very favorite, I do love a good fried clam roll too!  We just can't get that bread in this part of the country.


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## Glynda (Oct 4, 2016)

*Lobster*



theo said:


> Personally, I can't imagine how anyone could "botch" the simple boiling of water to cook a lobster. I'd suggest getting it without much contemplation or hesitation where you conveniently find it. I can't see how there could be a dime's bit of difference, except maybe in much more elaborate lobster dishes.
> 
> Sometimes in warmer periods, "soft shell" (recently shedded / new shell) lobsters are offered and they tend to be considerably less meaty, having just put a whole lot of their life energy into growing and then changing into a bigger suit (shell). At this time of year, that's not really much of a concern or issue.



Oh, I've had plenty of "botched" steamed lobsters!  Overcooked  "Boiled" to death. Rubbery. Tasteless.  I've had them in Maine.  I've had them on the Cape.  I've had them at Red Lobster!  What a shame!


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## theo (Oct 5, 2016)

*Name that mollusk...*



Glynda said:


> Theo!  Born and raised in Ft Myers, Florida.  Summered in parents' second home at Lamoine Point, Maine.  Live in Charleston, SC.  I *KNOW*  an oyster! I love 'em any way I can get 'em! Had them raw last night! No, these were said to be "whole bellied fried clams."  And those things had a tough neck with big, round bellies that tasted all muddy and murky.  What I know as "steamers," or "soft shells," (though they don't actually seem to be soft but a thinner shell than most clams) are what they toss in the netted bag and steam at lobster pounds all over coastal Maine and are served on the Cape too and I did have once in Mystic. We even get them (steamers/soft shells) in grocery stores sometimes here in SC, but they never taste as good. Somewhat oval shaped though slightly pointed on the ends, not too big, a long neck that has a skin to be pulled off, and a belly, but not exactly a big, round, ball shaped one as I seem to remember on the ones I was describing. I just wondered if those were Quahogs?  They never fry those?
> 
> Anyway, though steamers are my very favorite, I do love a good fried clam roll too!  We just can't get that bread in this part of the country.



Glynda, my apologies. I certainly knew of your geographic background and seafood experience from some of our prior communications and figured that you *most likely* already knew oysters well; I floated up a weak theory for "the process of elimination". Appalachicola oysters in Florida certainly have and deserve their own reknown and fans (among whom I certainly number). I was just posing a possibility while scratching my head to identify your "mystery mollusk" (...I am still doing so, actually).   

Definitely *not* quahogs, which have no long neck or membrane ("skin"). *No one* fries littlenecks / cherrystones / quahogs to my knowledge anyhow. 
Frankly, I think they would be nothing short of disgusting if fried (not to mention extremely rubbery). So, the "mystery mollusk" field seems to be narrowing... 

The large clams you have described, if they are not just very large soft shell clams (which do, in fact, grow larger if in the right substrate and not harvested), *might* (emphasis *might*) be a clam I've heard of called a "cut neck" clam (a clam with which I'm completely unfamiliar, as they are not found, sold or eaten anywhere here in north coastal New England; I've never even seen one). Soft shell clams as large as you have described are much more often shucked and sold / used for fishing bait , rather than as "steamers" or shucked and battered for fried clams. If a restaurant is serving very large soft shell clams as food, I'd find someplace else to eat.

To be honest, the "cut neck" clam is something of a "Bigfoot" item to me --- I have heard of it, but nothing more. They are not found, sold or eaten anywhere in more northern coastal parts of New England. I don't even know what it looks like, but now I'm going to do some homework to see what I can find out about the "cut neck clam" and maybe we can resolve this mollusk mystery.

P.S. I was at Lamoine Point for a day just last week, looking at a property I once rented, now being offered for sale (...for about twice its' actual value; I passed).


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## theo (Oct 5, 2016)

*Critters and  Clams --- but no "Bigfoot"...*

Maybe I should have sent the following directly to Glynda as a PM. If it bores you, I apologize, but your mouse can easily just move you right along after you yawn. 

I contacted a fellow I once worked with in the Northeast seafood industry. He is, I believe, now the biggest seafood industry player on the eastern seaboard between the Maine / Canada border and Connecticut (whatever / wherever CT is ), although the seafood industry itself is in serious decline. The definitive word from the mount is:

What I previously (and erroneously) referred to as a "cut neck" clam I am now told is more correctly referred to as a "top neck" clam in some limited circles. 
As it turns out, the "top neck" clam is just another subtle size gradation of the hard clam (mercenaria mercenaria); slightly larger than a littleneck (generally regarded as up to 2") and slightly smaller than a cherrystone (generally regarded as up to 3" --- anything larger is called a quahog or "chowder" for slang). So, it turns out that there is no "mystery mollusk" after all, just another subtle size distinction among littleneck / top neck / cherrystone / quahog (hard clam, mercenaria mercanaria). I suspect that the term "top neck" is only used in very southern (or elsewhere south of) New England; the term is completely foreign to me and I know a bit about NE seafood.  

Soft shell clams (as "steamers" or for fried clams) can, in fact, grow to 3-4" in length in the right substrate and undisturbed. 1 1/2" is minimum legal size for harvest. Consumers generally do *not* prefer large soft shell clams, but they are usually discovered and harvested long before managing to reach their maximum size anyhow.  
Green crabs (an invasive species) are decimating the soft shell clam population in MA and Maine. Prices are skyrocketing in predictable "supply vs. demand" fashion.

That's all I've got, Glynda. There is no "mystery Bigfoot mollusk" here after all. What you describe would* seem **to me* to just be unusually large soft shell clams.


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## theo (Oct 5, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Oh, I've had plenty of "botched" steamed lobsters!  Overcooked  "Boiled" to death. Rubbery. Tasteless.  I've had them in Maine.  I've had them on the Cape.  I've had them at Red Lobster!  What a shame!



A *real* shame, that someone could actually fail at simply immersing something in boiling water for a specific and known amount of time  and then remove and plate it.
Any food industry establishment that can't do *that* much, correctly and consistently, should voluntarily perform a public service and just shutter their doors.

Then again, there is an attitude in some seasonal / coastal circles that "the tourists will buy  / eat anything". I once personally knew of a (Cape Cod, MA) summer establishment that routinely used a cookie cutter to punch out "circles" from (dirt cheap) skate wings --- and then deep fry and serve them up as fried scallops (...charging scallop prices). Few seemed to notice (or care) that the muscle fiber striations of those punched out skate wings ran in *the opposite direction * (i.e., horizontally across)  compared to those of a scallop muscle (which run vertically, or "up and down").


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## Glynda (Oct 5, 2016)

*Curious times two now!*



theo said:


> P.S. I was at Lamoine Point for a day just last week, looking at a property I once rented, now being offered for sale (...for about twice its' actual value; I passed).



Really?  Lamoine Point!  My parents bought there in the late 1930's or early 1940's.  They bought the original section of The Shore Acres Hotel that had been added on to over the years and was being separated again and the "newer" portions moved to become cottages elsewhere.   My dad sold it in 1964 or 65. It was white when we owned it.  Now on the National Register of Historic Places.  No heat or A/C.  The cottage pictured next to it was begun by my father and finished by the current owner.  I have great memories of the place!  We used to rake clams near there and steam them over an open fire with seaweed over the top of the pot.  My love of steamers is all wrapped up in those memories!

This is it now:

http://www.shoreacresmaine.com/index.html


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## Glynda (Oct 5, 2016)

*The not so mysterious clam!*



theo said:


> Soft shell clams (as "steamers" or for fried clams) can, in fact, grow to 3-4" in length in the right substrate and undisturbed. 1 1/2" is minimum legal size for harvest. Consumers generally do *not* prefer large soft shell clams, but they are usually discovered and harvested long before managing to reach their maximum size anyhow.
> Green crabs (an invasive species) are decimating the soft shell clam population in MA and Maine. Prices are skyrocketing in predictable "supply vs. demand" fashion.
> 
> That's all I've got, Glynda. There is no "mystery Bigfoot mollusk" here after all. What you describe would* seem **to me* to just be unusually large soft shell clams.



Must be then!  I've had some steamers that were bigger than I would have liked but only these few odd whole bellied fried clam rolls that piqued my curiosity as to what strange kind of clam they might be.  I remember now having the first along Hwy 1 in Old Saybrook, CT.   But then, in Mystic, I had great steamers. Further along the way to the Cape, I had one more whole bellied clam roll like that in CT.  Had a couple of great ones like I recalled from Maine on the Cape.  Then somewhere on the way back down Hwy 1 on the way home another bad big bellied one.  Ah, well.  I need to stick to steamers unless I can peek over the shoulders of those receiving their food before I order!

Thanks so much!  I find it very interesting!  And I did read of a recall of some mussels and clams from Maine last week.  I certainly hope Green Crabs and Global Warming don't destroy the population of clams and mussels!  ARGH! Worms got my favorite pear guavas around the Ft Myers area!


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## Glynda (Oct 5, 2016)

*Scallops*



theo said:


> A *real* I once personally knew of a (Cape Cod, MA) summer establishment that routinely used a cookie cutter to punch out "circles" from (dirt cheap) skate wings --- and then deep fry and serve them up as fried scallops (...charging scallop prices). Few seemed to notice (or care) that the muscle fiber striations of those punched out skate wings ran in *the opposite direction * (i.e., horizontally across)  compared to those of a scallop muscle (which run vertically, or "up and down").



I'd heard of that happening but hadn't thought about the difference in muscles!  Makes sense. Good to know! Used to go scalloping in the bay at Ft Myers Beach too. Prefer raking clams!


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## theo (Oct 5, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Really?  Lamoine Point!  My parents bought there in the late 1930's or early 1940's.  They bought the original section of The Shore Acres Hotel that had been added on to over the years and was being separated again and the "newer" portions moved to become cottages elsewhere.   My dad sold it in 1964 or 65. It was white when we owned it.  Now on the National Register of Historic Places.  No heat or A/C.  The cottage pictured next to it was begun by my father and finished by the current owner.  I have great memories of the place!  We used to rake clams near there and steam them over an open fire with seaweed over the top of the pot.  My love of steamers is all wrapped up in those memories!
> 
> This is it now:
> 
> http://www.shoreacresmaine.com/index.html



I recognized that house right away --- but not the cottage. The waterfront property that I looked at is nearby, on that same side of Lamoine Beach Road, but in the direction *away from* the Point / end of the road. There are actually several different properties for sale in that immediate area right now, which is unusual. At their hallucinatory asking prices, I suspect that they all will *remain* for sale for a while. I too have some fond memories of the area, but not as far back as childhood. 
Small world, eh?


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## Glynda (Oct 5, 2016)

*Lamoine Point*



theo said:


> I recognized that house right away --- but not the cottage. The waterfront property that I looked at is nearby, on that same side of Lamoine Beach Road, but in the direction *away from* the Point / end of the road. There are actually several different properties for sale in that immediate area right now, which is unusual. At their hallucinatory asking prices, I suspect that they all will *remain* for sale for a while. I too have some fond memories of the area, but not as far back as childhood.
> Small world, eh?



It is indeed!  

You don't see the cottage from the road.  It sits back and behind the house. Slightly to the left of it. 

I see that they advertise Shore Acres as having 4 bedrooms. It actually has 8 bedrooms. They were kind enough to let my mother and our family go through there a few years ago and told us that they have closed off the third floor. We saw, and the online photos show, furniture that was in the house when my parents purchased and sold it.  I used to stand at the foot of my parents' bed, looking out the window at the lights of the cars coming down Cadillac Mountain on Mount Desert Island.


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## Glynda (Oct 6, 2016)

*Theo*

Theo, your posts are always so thorough and informative!  I really appreciate your contributions to TUG!

Glynda


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## theo (Oct 6, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Theo, your posts are always so thorough and informative!  I really appreciate your contributions to TUG!
> 
> Glynda



Thank you for your kind words. 
There are very few things in this world that I know a whole lot about, so I am at risk of being a bit of a "windbag" whenever those few topics arise and I chime in. 
When marine matters or law / legal issues arise as conversational topics among friends, they sometimes give me a cautionary look that says "*Don't you * *start*!"


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## Greg G (Oct 6, 2016)

Thursday we went on a seal tour around Monomoy island.  Was an overcast day and the seals seemed to be very skittish.   The moment I tried to focus on them they'd pop back under the water.







So our last full day here it was actually sunny the entire day after being overcast all the other days.  Went to the Highland Light lighthouse in Turo as had never gotten to go up in that lighthouse last time we were here.  Pretty nice views from up there.


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## Glynda (Oct 6, 2016)

*Photos*

Great photos from the Cape!  Love cute faces of seals but understand the damage they can do.  There are some great light houses to photograph!  I'll let you climb them and take photos for me to look at.   Thanks for posting those!  Glad it cleared up for you!

Glynda


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## Glynda (Oct 6, 2016)

*Deleted by Author*

Tried to post photos from Photobucket but didn't work.  Grrrrr.


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## SailBadtheSinner (Oct 7, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Tried to post photos from Photobucket but didn't work.  Grrrrr.




How to post from Photobucket. Under _Share the Photo_ on upper right, copy the _IMG_, and paste in your post anywhere. Put cursor over URL in box and left click and the URL will be copied. See example:






SBtS


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## Glynda (Oct 7, 2016)

*Photos*



SailBadtheSinner said:


> How to post from Photobucket. Under _Share the Photo_ on upper right, copy the _IMG_, and paste in your post anywhere. Put cursor over URL in box and left click and the URL will be copied. See example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!  I hand't posted a photo on TUG in a very long time.  I was trying to insert the address the old way via the yellow "insert image" box above rather than directly into the post.  Will try again!

Glynda


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## Glynda (Oct 7, 2016)

*Shore Acres Lamoine Point*

Thanks to Sailbad's instructions I hope to show you Shore Acres at Lamoine Point, Maine, as it looked when my parents purchased it before I was born.  I'd love to know what the year and make of the automobile is if anyone knows!  





Thanks for putting up with the "off topic" everyone!


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## Greg G (Oct 7, 2016)

Glynda

I'll take a stab at it.
Do you know when that picture was taken or could have been taken?
Not sure the timeline for these would be right (possibly to late a year car based on some of the information) but take a look at these Dodge models
https://www.google.com/search?q=194...ei=Omn4V8yBDMHxep2rv7AB#imgrc=j9ZGOvzVNhcCLM:

Greg


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## Glynda (Oct 8, 2016)

*Auto*



Greg G said:


> Glynda
> 
> I'll take a stab at it.
> Do you know when that picture was taken or could have been taken?
> ...



Could be!  Mother said they bought the house sometime in the late 1930's/ early 40's but I read that it wasn't broken apart from it's additions over the years until '42 so that would have been the earliest they would have bought it.  I was born in '48.  I know that this photo was taken before then.


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## Greg G (Oct 8, 2016)

One day we went to the Chatham Fishing Pier to see one of the boats unload its haul.  There were a few seals waiting around for scraps.


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## Glynda (Oct 8, 2016)

*Chatham Pier*

That's where I've seen the seals also!  They pop up when you least expect them!  

Did you eat at the Pier Market?  Great clam chowder!


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## Greg G (Oct 8, 2016)

I was going to get something but my wife wasn't hungry at the time so we didn't.   However that night we went to Arnold's in Eastham and I had lobster (yum)

Greg


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## Glynda (Oct 8, 2016)

*Lobster*



Greg G said:


> I was going to get something but my wife wasn't hungry at the time so we didn't.   However that night we went to Arnold's in Eastham and I had lobster (yum)
> 
> Greg



Oh, good!  You found your good lobster.  They were closed when we went by there.  

We take the chowder back to the unit from Chatham Pier Fish Market when we are there at off times.  It so good and easy to reheat.  I also absolutely love the chowder at Brewster Fish House too.  It's a whole different price point and atmosphere there though.  Always have to go to both at least once and usually more than once.


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## Greg G (Oct 9, 2016)

Yeah, didn't think about taking the chowder back and reheating it (as we were going back to the unit at that time anyway).
Interesting thing happened when I was at the Highland Light lighthouse.  After the tour of the lighthouse, I was outside taking pictures of it and started to hear a buzzing sound.  Looked up and there was a drone buzzing around the lighthouse. It was there for about 10 seconds then flew away.  Don't know but possibly the golf course the lighthouse is situated on uses them , or maybe just a local checking things out.
So while driving back on 6 to Brewster we got stopped around Wellfleet by turkeys walking across the highway.   A lady in her car in the opposite direction was trying to wave the last ones through and she must have been waiting longer than us as I could see 6 or so turkeys that must have already crossed in the yard by the highway.  So that makes 3 or 4 days we'd seen turkeys on the Cape.  Not sure if that's common for that time of year.

Greg


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## theo (Oct 10, 2016)

Greg G said:


> One day we went to the Chatham Fishing Pier to see one of the boats unload its haul. <snip>



Greg:
There is actually a whole lot more "hidden" meaning and relevance than you likely even realize behind these photos! Let me bore you with some unsolicited details...

Historically, for Chatham (and most other New England) fishermen, the reliable "bread and butter" species has always been cod, going back to the days of the Pilgrims. 
A codfish (a wood and metal replica, of course, not a stuffed specimen ) actually hangs in tribute within the Massachusetts State House in Boston.  Sadly however, the  cod population and its' fishery is currently in a state of outright collapse throughout all of New England and the harvest of cod is now very severely restricted. 

The catch seen on deck in your photos is spiny dogfish (or "dogs", in the vernacular of fishermen, *squalus acanthius* to scientists, just plain "dogfish" to the rest of us). Spiny dogfish is a *very* abundant species of shark which rarely grows any larger than four feet long. Historically regarded as a worthless, nuisance "trash" fish here in the U.S. but, ironically, *very* popular in the UK and Europe; it's the "fish" in "fish and chips" (UK), in "saumonette" (France), in Schillerlocken (Germany). Struggling Chatham fishermen are now trying to survive by seasonally harvesting this low-value species that few consumers in the U.S. actually want any part of, historically. 
Active efforts are currently being undertaken to somehow expand interest and market demand for the lowly spiny dogfish. A fellow named Doug Feeney (owner and captain of Chatham based F/V *Noah* (...not the man or the vessel in your photos, afaik) is a vocal and persuasive proponent in this particular effort.  I wish them luck --- being a commercial fisherman is an extremely difficult, uncertain and very demanding way to make a living and my personal respect for those folks is boundless. 

It is a sad (and to me, astounding) statistic that 90% of the seafood we now eat in the U.S. originates overseas, a lot of it "farmed" (e.g., shrimp, salmon, tilapia) --- often under dubious conditions and creating negative environmental impact. And yet, *one third of what gets caught in American waters gets* *shipped abroad*.  

Anyone still awake after reading my above soliloquy might have some interest in a book published in 2014 called *American Catch*, written by Paul Greenberg. I've read some of his different writings in recent years and I highly recommend his work to anyone with a genuine interest in the details and state of our oceans', living marine resources and the fishing industry in the U.S.

P.S. Unlike codfish, the wild turkeys you've observed on Cape Cod are very abundant, thriving and routinely seen throughout all of (non-urban) New England. 
Benjamin Franklin once proposed that the wild turkey be identified as America's "symbol" bird. I for one am glad that the regal Bald Eagle prevailed instead.


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## Glynda (Oct 10, 2016)

*Drones, etc.*



Greg G said:


> Yeah, didn't think about taking the chowder back and reheating it (as we were going back to the unit at that time anyway).
> Interesting thing happened when I was at the Highland Light lighthouse.  After the tour of the lighthouse, I was outside taking pictures of it and started to hear a buzzing sound.  Looked up and there was a drone buzzing around the lighthouse. It was there for about 10 seconds then flew away.  Don't know but possibly the golf course the lighthouse is situated on uses them , or maybe just a local checking things out.
> So while driving back on 6 to Brewster we got stopped around Wellfleet by turkeys walking across the highway.   A lady in her car in the opposite direction was trying to wave the last ones through and she must have been waiting longer than us as I could see 6 or so turkeys that must have already crossed in the yard by the highway.  So that makes 3 or 4 days we'd seen turkeys on the Cape.  Not sure if that's common for that time of year.
> 
> Greg



I had a drone and seal/sea lion experience at La Jolla, CA.  While reading a sign about not harassing the seals and sea lions on the rocks & beach, I heard a buzzing and saw a man with a kid on the sidewalk operating a drone that was dive bombing them with his drone.  Attached was his cellphone, apparently taking videos.  They were disturbed, rising up and down, waddling away.  I was disturbed but said nothing.  There was one of the volunteer docents nearby whom I hoped would speak to him.  I left. 

I haven't seen the wild turkeys on the Cape but they're pretty common around here too.


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## Glynda (Oct 10, 2016)

*Cod*



theo said:


> Greg:
> There is actually a whole lot more meaning and relevance than you likely even realize behind these photos! Let me bore you with some unsolicited details...
> 
> Historically, for Chatham (and most other New England) fishermen, the reliable "bread and butter" species has always been cod, going back to the days of the Pilgrims.
> ...



Very interesting, Theo!   I knew that Cod is in short supply. I read that the multitude of seals were responsible.  Is that the case or is it over-fishing, other environmental issues, or all of the above? 

Charleston chefs are offering "Trash Fish Dinner Specials." We're seeing triggerfish, wreckfish, and barrel fish on menus here pretty frequently, especially wreck fish.

Glynda


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## theo (Oct 10, 2016)

Glynda said:


> Very interesting, Theo!   I knew that Cod is in short supply. I read that the multitude of seals were responsible.  Is that the case or is it over-fishing, other environmental issues, or all of the above?



Overfishing (by domestic, not by foreign) commercial "draggers" is the culprit here, plain and simple. All foreign vessels were forced far away from waters bordering the U.S. (forever) by passage of the Studds/Magnuson Act in 1976 (a.k.a "Fishery Conservation Management Act" or a.k.a "the 200 mile limit law"). This legislation formally implemented a new "Exclusive Economic Zone" of U.S. jurisdiction, between 3-200 miles offshore (inside of 3 miles is state waters of state jurisdiction). It was an overdue "goodbye" to all of the Russian and Spanish factory trawlers. History plainly reflects that cod stocks were in *great* shape then --- and for years thereafter. 
Let's now "fast forward" to a little over four years later...

The irrefutable historical fact is that just after 1980, in a new administration, *lots* of cheap (i.e., very low interest) money suddenly became available from Uncle Sam under "trickle down" (...or voodoo, if you prefer) "Reaganomics" economic theory and practices of that time. Lots of that "cheap money" was suddenly made available for the construction of new U.S. fishing vessels --- and far too many such very large "draggers" (a slang term for otter trawl [bottom-net] towing vessels) got quickly built and promptly proceeded to apply their greatly increased horsepower, much larger capacity nets and much improved net retrieval equipment and methods (stern trawls) --- not to mention modern sonar technology --- to find, pinpoint target and harvest huge quantities of selected species. Cod in particular have been consistently just absolutely pummeled in New England waters ever since, (in particular, *offshore* on Georges Bank). Lame, impotent and only marginally enforceable regulations and catch limits were belatedly implemented by fishery (mis)managers, but those ineffective measures were clearly just "much too little, much too late".

So, to briefly summarize the historical record y here, after 1976, the U.S. essentially kicked out and kicked away all of of the foreign fishing vessels. Commencing in and after 1980, new "nearly free money" afforded a whole lot of newly built U.S. fishing vessels the opportunity to rape and pillage our living marine resources unimpeded --- all by themselves --- and they proceeded to do just *exactly* that with lots of (...far too many) big, brand new U.S. made stern trawlers. So much for "trickle down".   

Seals get *entirely* too much blame for the decline of New England fisheries --- that's just utter nonsense, biologically speaking. Seals have certainly proliferated in number since first protected by federal law in the 1970's (Marine Mammal Protection Act and Endangered Species Act were both first enacted in the '70's) and yes, seals certainly have to eat, but the horrific scale of commercial overfishing (*not* seals individually feeding themselves, one fish at a time, exclusively in near-shore waters) *created* the groundfish crisis.  Btw, just as an anecdotal aside, white sharks have thrived in ever-increasing numbers in inshore Cape Cod waters --- *eating* seals. 

I don't love seals (their presence in an area does not exactly enhance recreational fishing --- and their colonies out on Monomoy Island absolutely stink to high heaven), 
but neither do I dislike them.  In any event, seals most assuredly are *not* responsible for the decimation of groundfish stocks in New England --- not by a long shot --- but I guess every tragedy needs a "villain", whether real or contrived. Ironically, it is usually only commercial fisherman (for whom I otherwise truly have only the greatest admiration and respect) who attempt to (quite unconvincingly) point the finger of blame at seals; doing so is surely much easier and much less painful than taking a long, hard, objective look in the mirror and / or examining the undeniable history and irrefutable facts and figures pertaining to the New Enngland groundfish fleet.


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## Glynda (Oct 10, 2016)

*Overfishing*



theo said:


> Overfishing (by domestic, not by foreign) commercial "draggers" is the culprit here, plain and simple. Not to be political, but the irrefutable historical fact is that just after 1980, *lots* of cheap (i.e., very low interest) money suddenly became available from Uncle Sam for the construction of new fishing vessels --- and far too many such (very large) "draggers" (a slang term for otter trawl [bottom-net] towing vessels) got quickly built and promptly proceeded to apply their increased horsepower, larger capacity nets and improved net retrieval equipment and methods (stern trawl) --- and modern sonar technology --- to find, pinpoint target and harvest huge quantities of selected species. Cod in particular have been consistently just pummeled in New England waters, both inshore and offshore (in particular, offshore on Georges Bank) ever since. Lame regulations and catch limits were belatedly implemented by fishery (mis)managers, but those ineffective measures were clearly just "too little, too late".
> 
> Seals get entirely too much blame for the decline of New England fisheries --- that's just utter nonsense, biologically speaking. Seals have certainly proliferated in number since first protected by federal law in the 1970's (Marine Mammal Protection Act and Endangered Species Act were both first enacted in the '70's) and yes, seals certainly have to eat, but the horrific scale of commercial overfishing (*not* seals individually feeding themselves, one fish at a time, exclusively in near-shore waters) *created* the groundfish crisis.  Btw, just as an anecdotal aside, white sharks have thrived in ever-increasing numbers in inshore Cape Cod waters --- *eating* seals.
> 
> ...



That's very interesting, Theo.  I have read several articles in tourist magazines that you pick up around the Cape that "blame the seals."  It did seem like a lot of fish for seals to practically wipe out.  And I did see a correlation to the increased number of sharks spotted in the area.  I didn't know about the domestic overfishing.  Certainly makes more sense!

The seals and sea lions at La Jolla, CA, certainly do smell up an otherwise lovely area.  There's a good bit of frustration and conflict there over them.  

I saw an amazing youtube video of the seals on Monomoy Island off the Cape: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlkdCcizd3s

Thanks!
Glynda


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## Greg G (Oct 10, 2016)

theo said:


> Greg:
> There is actually a whole lot more "hidden" meaning and relevance than you likely even realize behind these photos! Let me bore you with some unsolicited details...
> 
> Historically, for Chatham (and most other New England) fishermen, the reliable "bread and butter" species has always been cod, going back to the days of the Pilgrims.
> ...



theo,  yes, when I first looked at those fish in the haul I thought they looked like miniature sharks.  Very interesting. I should have asked the guys on the boat during the unloading.  Yeah, I can believe enough of those draggers would result in overfishing.

I had forgotten that Benjamin Franklin proposed that. Yes, it was a good thing that the Bald Eagle prevailed, what would we eat for Thanksgiving 

Glynda,  wow that's a lot of seals.

Greg


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