# WM outside the US



## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

I was referred here since I have been asking about TS that will fit out travelling. I found this site when I was researching the value of a developer-paid TS (which everyone told me, a waste of $$$ and I did rescind). We are based in the West and go to Asia for work and we plan our vacations there. We like Thailand a lot and would like to explore more. I didn't see much about the South Pacific holdings of WM.

I looked at the resorts list already and Thailand was not one of them. Most members have said that WM carries more weight when trading/exchanging my points. Is it worth it? Our plans are exploring Europe and the beaches of Thailand and Indonesia, and maybe visit Australia in the next 5 years. I also have an obligatory visit to Hawaii coming up, too.

In terms of quality, my husband is the picky one. He usually expects quality, a minimum of 3+/5 stars but he prefers 4 (like Marriot, Omni, Kimpton styles). He expects close to entainment/attraction and accessibility to the needs of a city dweller. If in Hawaii or tropical countries, he likes to be close to the beach. I expect good space and activities for kids.





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## Ty1on (Aug 22, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> I was referred here since I have been asking about TS that will fit out travelling. I found this site when I was researching the value of a developer-paid TS (which everyone told me, a waste of $$$ and I did rescind). We are based in the West and go to Asia for work and we plan our vacations there. We like Thailand a lot and would like to explore more. I didn't see much about the South Pacific holdings of WM.
> 
> I looked at the resorts list already and Thailand was not one of them. Most members have said that WM carries more weight when trading/exchanging my points. Is it worth it? Our plans are exploring Europe and the beaches of Thailand and Indonesia, and maybe visit Australia in the next 5 years. I also have an obligatory visit to Hawaii coming up, too.
> 
> ...



Thailand is a place you would need to exchange into.  Buying into Marriott TS is out of the budget you described in your questionnaire.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks Ty1on. I was giving a comparison of the quality that he expects since I have not seen a WM place before. 

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## Passepartout (Aug 22, 2015)

To be brutally honest, timesharing outside the U.S. is really hit-and-miss. The resorts tend to be in rural areas- because people there live in the cities and when they want to vacation, they go to the countryside. There are exceptions- Phuket comes to mind, as well as built-up areas in Europe along the Mediterranean coast. but generally, buying a U.S. timeshare for exchanging to other parts of the world is not either practical, or economic. Package travel deals work better.

Timesharing works best in the U.S. and Mexico, and to a degree, Canada. Oh, and of course, the Caribbean.

Jim


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

I appreciate the brutal honesty since we are going to spend money on it. I had to ask since I have not read anything in it but have seen that there were locations in the II website. 

I have been to Phuket and I did see a couple of them there and it was gorgeous. We stayed in Angsana, the hotel part of the property, and I remember there were people there offering presentations for TS as well.

Any experience with exchanges with Hawaii, Jim? 



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## Passepartout (Aug 22, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> Any experience with exchanges with Hawaii, Jim?



Oh, sure. Hawaii is full of timeshares. We kind of alternate, Coastal Mexico one year, Maui the next.


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## taterhed (Aug 22, 2015)

Jim's right.

You originally rescinded Welk, right?  That's pretty much a tiny resort system in SoCal.

You indicated that you were interested in SW US vacations and maybe some Pacific Rim (and HI).  There are timeshares in the Pacific Rim that are accessible via exchange (many exchanges, not just RCI/II) or rental or WMSPC (WorldMark South Pacific Club by Wyndham).  Hawaii has several nice Worldmarks and FIJI.

The WMSPC  resorts are well reviewed by many, but not an especially popular topic here on TUG or WMowners etc....  They are, after all, 9,000 miles from Southern California.  You might try reading TripAdvisor for more info.

My point was:  WM is a very flexible property for SoCal and it makes an excellent (and cheap) trader for hi-value properties on the exchanges.  No matter where the property might actually be.  You'd be suprised what comes up for exchange--see my previous posts.

So, if you want to know about Worldmark outside of the US, read the resort reviews for Hawaii Australia (et al) and Fiji.  That's it.  And, as a new resale owner, you can only trade for AUS or book on special when offered.  (I consider Canada our relatives )

Sorry, not stalking you, but just saw the post under 'new posts' and though I'd clarify since I gave you the advice.


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## taterhed (Aug 22, 2015)

Just noticed:  you're still a guest.  Some areas of the forum (reviews?) are private unless you're a member.

Consider joining TUG:  It's the best $15 you'll ever spend.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Just noticed:  you're still a guest.  Some areas of the forum (reviews?) are private unless you're a member.
> 
> Consider joining TUG:  It's the best $15 you'll ever spend.


I became a member since last night!  I don't know why it still says guest though. I did use the same username.

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## taterhed (Aug 22, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> I became a member since last night!  I don't know why it still says guest though. I did use the same username.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk




http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53

see this ^


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

taterhed said:


> You indicated that you were interested in SW US vacations and maybe some Pacific Rim (and HI).  There are timeshares in the Pacific Rim that are accessible via exchange (many exchanges, not just RCI/II) or rental or WMSPC (WorldMark South Pacific Club by Wyndham).  Hawaii has several nice Worldmarks and FIJI.
> 
> The WMSPC  resorts are well reviewed by many, but not an especially popular topic here on TUG or WMowners etc....  They are, after all, 9,000 miles from Southern California.  You might try reading TripAdvisor for more info.
> 
> ...



You guys are helping me out so I don't mind, Taterhed. Thanks a bunch! I will look in tripadvisor to learn more and 'see' some of the properties for WMSPC. 

Since I got that concern out of my system, can anyone point me to the right direction on how to understand this points deal? And what else am I limited to when I get resale?

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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> Oh, sure. Hawaii is full of timeshares. We kind of alternate, Coastal Mexico one year, Maui the next.


Nice. Definitely would be nice to go there since we are close to Mexico. I think my problem would be picking a place to go since there are so many then. Lol

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## Passepartout (Aug 22, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> Nice. Definitely would be nice to go there since we are close to Mexico. I think my problem would be picking a place to go since there are so many then. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk



You'll soon show as a 'Member', then you'll have access to the TUG Reviews section up there in the red stripe above here. Resorts are a whole lot easier to sort out then.


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## taterhed (Aug 22, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> You guys are helping me out so I don't mind, Taterhed. Thanks a bunch! I will look in tripadvisor to learn more and 'see' some of the properties for WMSPC.
> 
> Since I got that concern out of my system, can anyone point me to the right direction on how to understand this points deal? And what else am I limited to when I get resale?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk




Virtually no difference between resale/developer.  No travelshare, no club Wyndham or Fairshare--no affiliate or WMSPC resorts--unless they are added specifically to the specials/bonus/fax time list.  (on the home website).  This all just means you can't use Wyndham resorts or affiliated resorts; although you can exchange for them in II,RCI etc...

start reading here, great basic guide: http://www.wmtsinfo.com/item/11


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## geist1223 (Aug 22, 2015)

*WM Outside the USA.*

We are WM Owners and have been since 2002. We bought most of our points from the Developer - 67000 - and 22000 resell. Thus we have access to WM South Pacific (WMSP). Outside of the CONUS WM has locations in Western Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, and Fiji. We travel to all those places. Through WMSP we have been to Australia and New Zealand. We are going to Tasmania in February. Another Point System to consider is Diamond Resorts International - DRI. They have locations almost everywhere but to be honest some are Hotel Rooms and not Condos. Anyone can go the DRI Web Site and look up their Resorts. With our WM we have done trades through RCI to Ireland, Scotland,  and Wales. This year we joined DRI to get easy access to Europe, Africa, and Asia without having to do trades. Shortly after joining DRI we had reservations for France. In October we are spending a week in Connelles and a week in Paris.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

geist1223 said:


> We are WM Owners and have been since 2002. We bought most of our points from the Developer - 67000 - and 22000 resell. Thus we have access to WM South Pacific (WMSP). Outside of the CONUS WM has locations in Western Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, and Fiji. We travel to all those places. Through WMSP we have been to Australia and New Zealand. We are going to Tasmania in February. Another Point System to consider is Diamond Resorts International - DRI. They have locations almost everywhere but to be honest some are Hotel Rooms and not Condos. Anyone can go the DRI Web Site and look up their Resorts. With our WM we have done trades through RCI to Ireland, Scotland,  and Wales. This year we joined DRI to get easy access to Europe, Africa, and Asia without having to do trades. Shortly after joining DRI we had reservations for France. In October we are spending a week in Connelles and a week in Paris.



Geist1223, thanks for the detailed countries that you were able to use based on your WM points and the trades that you were able to make. This definitely answered my question. The more I hear from everyone's experience, the more I know if it will be a good fit for us. So far, everyone has pointed me to WM.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 22, 2015)

thanks Jim and Rob. I am now a member and now able to see the links. So far I am reading through the ones you sent me about WM and researching some resorts. 

Here's a couple of things that I appreciate about WM so far:

-bonus time seems a neat way to go on a vacation but not obliged to stay a week. 

-points system seems fairly straight forward: find the resort, figure out what season, see if I have enough points in the bank (and if I need to borrow) and if available on the dates that you prefer.

- housekeeping tokens will only be expensive if I do break up our trips since we have to pay each time we stay at a different resort/room. It does not apply to the other special programs such as bonus time, fax time, and inventory specials.

-expiration of points is exactly the same month as the anniversary. Easy to remember.


Now questions:

-if I do borrow the points, can I break it up or I have to borrow the whole thing? from my understanding, it regenerate the next anniversary year

- does it have any difference or importance if the TS is deeded or not?  From what I understand, deeded is registered so you have evidence of "property".

I will keep reading. I used the wmtsinfo.com website is very straight-forward and easy to understand.


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## geist1223 (Aug 22, 2015)

*WM Outside the USA.*

If you do not have enough current points or housekeeping credits in your WM Account the computer will borrow just enough to make the reservation. The most common complaint people have with WM is not being able to get the Reservation where they want when they want. The Booking Window opens at 13 months (6am Pacific Time if booking online, 8am Pacific if booking over the telephone). So if you want Maui or other high demand locations you need to book at 13 months. Though WM does have a very effective waiting list.


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## persia (Aug 23, 2015)

Worldmark the Club (WTC) and Worldmark South Pacific (WSP) are separate clubs. People who have developers points in one can exchange into the other as if they were the same club, but not resale points. We live in Sydney and have resale WSP and have no real exchange into North American resorts, the reverse is also true.

Also the WSP resorts here in Oz vary a great deal in quality, all the way from poor to quite good.


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## CCR (Aug 23, 2015)

A few options to consider:

A cheap EOY resale Marriott lock off for trading (I can always see Thailand available with both my studio and 1 bedroom).  When I say cheap I mean low cost of initial purchase and low maintenance fees.  If you can travel off season I frequently see availability in Interval to exchange in Europe and other places abroad.

Or purchase both a Worldmark & Worldmark South Pacific membership.  (The Worldmark and Worldmark South pacific are different systems and two separate purchases).  Buy a low credit account 5-10,000 max as you can always rent more credits if needed.  If you are really considering worldmark you need to go over to wmowners.com and study that forum thoroughly.  

If you are going to own two different systems keep the purchases minimal.  I own two EOY contracts with Marriott, own MROP for the local resorts in Utah that I love to use, and just bought a small credit account with Worldmark for trading access in RCI, and having the flexibility of a points system.  

If I lived in California the only other purchase I'd consider is a fixed week beach type resort with day privileges that also trades well in II and RCI


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 26, 2015)

Hello again! I have been gone a while as I have been reading all the links that was referred to me, particularly wmowners.com and the wmts website. It definitely was very informative and gave me a deeper understanding of TS. 

So from what I am seeing so far, WM seems like a good fit for us. The locations of the resorts are where we can actually go and are interested to go. We are thinking of Oregon and Seattle area. I do have to take into consideration the resorts that have no A/C and the red season as some go way over 10K for a 1BR.

It also did show that some of the properties were around the 3k-7k points  range for a 1BR depending on the season so now I understand why 10K is a good size. The points also trade well on RCI and II from what I have seen in wmowners forum. They have indicated Hawaii and Thailand as well so I was very excited to see that it was possible, if in case we decide to trade our points. 

I know everyone has been saying that you have to pre-plan your trips, how far in advance do you plan? Is it really 13-months in advance? or does this only apply to the red season Resorts?

They also have really cool programs like bonus time and exotic bonus time. Does this really save you your credits and are pretty cheap compared to renting out points? In what situation will you choose these program vs. renting points? 

I also did not find any info on how you trade or exchange your points in RCI or II. I only found out about what they got from their points. Do RCI determine how much points they need for that resort and it's a 1:1 ratio conversion? Is it also a weekly exchange or you can do # of days on your exchange? I also could not figure out how you will exchange your points at the highest peak so you can have more points since it is based on the TDI index of your weeks. Who determines the weeks?

I got curious and looked at how much the current 10K account is running, it seems like a lot on wmowners (from 5K due to some having remaining balances of at least 5-10K). I saw some of these accounts on Ebay as well, selling lower. But I read somewhere on TUG that you have to be careful on Ebay. 

Sorry for all the technical questions. I am just making sure that I understand what I am getting into and I will not have unreasonable expectations.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 26, 2015)

CCR said:


> A few options to consider:
> 
> A cheap EOY resale Marriott lock off for trading (I can always see Thailand available with both my studio and 1 bedroom).  When I say cheap I mean low cost of initial purchase and low maintenance fees.  If you can travel off season I frequently see availability in Interval to exchange in Europe and other places abroad.
> 
> ...



We would love to have a Marriott TS but one of the Tuggers mentioned that it may be too much for our current budget. They definitely have nice units, numerous locations in each countries, and definitely an ideal TS. It also seems more restricted with the system.


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## momwantsavacation (Aug 26, 2015)

geist1223 said:


> If you do not have enough current points or housekeeping credits in your WM Account the computer will borrow just enough to make the reservation. The most common complaint people have with WM is not being able to get the Reservation where they want when they want. The Booking Window opens at 13 months (6am Pacific Time if booking online, 8am Pacific if booking over the telephone). So if you want Maui or other high demand locations you need to book at 13 months. Though WM does have a very effective waiting list.



Thanks Geist1223, I did look into this and it is really a common problem. How far in advance do you plan your trips if you do want it to happen in a red season? Or does it also happen even in the blue season?


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## CCR (Aug 27, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> We would love to have a Marriott TS but one of the Tuggers mentioned that it may be too much for our current budget. They definitely have nice units, numerous locations in each countries, and definitely an ideal TS. It also seems more restricted with the system.



Currently my lock-off Marriott is cheaper than my Worldmark for exchanging purposes. There are some tricks to bring down your cost per weekly use.  My past year stays at very nice Marriotts have been averaging $500-$550 per week long stay in a beautiful 2 bedroom.  (Less than my maintenance fees because I can get a couple exchanges per deposit)  I end up with about 4 stays with my 2 bedroom unit by locking off, depositing both sides into Interval, and picking up an extra couple stays through ACs or bonuses that are talked about on the members only sighting board.  The risk is those options can go away in the future and are currently being changed.

However worldmark is a very good program, can trade in both Interval and RCI, and easier to resale when you are done with it.  If you can  travel at short notice the 4000 credit last minute deals are hard to beat.  I will typically end up exchanging using all my credits for a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom using 9,0000, 10,000 or 12,000 credits so I'm paying a higher amount for my week long stay with worldmark.


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## geist1223 (Aug 27, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> Thanks Geist1223, I did look into this and it is really a common problem. How far in advance do you plan your trips if you do want it to happen in a red season? Or does it also happen even in the blue season?



Patti and I have where we want to go penciled out 18 to 24 months in advance. Our dream sheet. Example we know we want to be in South Africa (thru Diamond) in May 2017. So in July 2016 I have a reminder to book that trip. Yes we are old and retired. Mainly I ask Patti where she wants to go. I tend to book at the earliest opportunity. For WM that is 13 months. For WPSP it is 10 or 11. I always have to double check with the VPC. For Diamond it is 10 or 13 months depending on whethe the location is part of my Home Collection or not. But then I just added a Sydney week to our planned trip to New Zealand  and Tasmania in February/March 2016. I had to book 2 1-bedroom units because no 2-
bedroom units were available for the whole week. So I went on the Wait List for a 2-bedroom. Remember you can cancel a WM or WMSP 30 days before checkin and get all Points and any fees back.

We are also flexible. We had a planned road trip from Oregon through California and back to Oregon for September 2015 (booked a year ago) but then last November we found out we were having a granchild (1st) in June in Salt Lake City. Booked WM Wolf Creek, canceled California Road trip, rebooked Wolf Creek to Park City when it later bacame available.

I book as early as allowed. So we will be where we want to be when we want to be there. We have successfully used the Wait List several times to include getting a week in Maui for my nephew's wedding with only 2 months notice.

There is also Wyndham Pass but again like WMSP you need Points purchased from the Developer. This gives you access to almost all Wyndham Resorts.


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## taterhed (Aug 28, 2015)

momwantsavacation said:


> Hello again! I have been gone a while as I have been reading all the links that was referred to me, particularly wmowners.com and the wmts website. It definitely was very informative and gave me a deeper understanding of TS.
> 
> So from what I am seeing so far, WM seems like a good fit for us. The locations of the resorts are where we can actually go and are interested to go. We are thinking of Oregon and Seattle area. I do have to take into consideration the resorts that have no A/C and the red season as some go way over 10K for a 1BR.
> 
> ...



More reading assignments:
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=33725
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30897
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26192

above all exchanging and dep first vs OGS float search
What could I get with WM on exchange?
Here is sightings:  (You're in Cali..could you go short notice to some of these?  Yes.  Also, 90 day fare sales to HI would allow use of 1br MKO listed....)

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33


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