# Monarch Grand Vacations Transition to Diamond Resorts (DRI)



## EAPoe

I am a Monarch Grand Vacations owner and I am trying to keep up with the transition to Diamond.  I keep being told that my "rights and privileges" will not change -- but I am not so sure.  All of a sudden Diamond owners from around the world will be competing for the same spots with me at my home resorts?

We shall see.  If anyone else has any insight into what is actually going to happen in regard to the Monarch Grand Vacations owners please post here!

The following was posted by Diamond.  From the sound of it -- there are going to be "more choices" (perhaps a "buy in"???) for Monarch owners to have access to the other resorts.  I wonder how much they are going to want us to pay for that???  

Here is the posting/ letter: (the original can be found here: http://communications.diamondresorts.com/10986/email.html)



Dear Valued Owner,

On May 22, 2012 DPM Acquisition, LLC successfully acquired substantially all of the assets of Pacific Monarch Resorts, Inc. 

Please rest assured that you will continue to enjoy the vacation lifestyle you have chosen and that your existing ownership remains exactly the same. We do recognize the value of your ownership and are pleased that the current Monarch Owner Services team will continue to provide reservation and owner services to all MGV owners. Any future reservations that you have already made are confirmed and there is no need to call again. For all new reservations, please continue to call Owner Services at the same number (1.800.828.4200) and they will be happy to book your next vacation. The reservations team is available to assist with bookings Monday - Thursday, 8 a.m. - 7 p.m.; Friday, 9 a.m. - 5 p.m.; Saturday, 9 a.m. - 3 p.m., Pacific time. 

Should you have questions regarding customer service (non-reservation related) or the acquisition, please send us an e-mail at AcquisitionInquiries@diamondresorts.com. For MGV related questions regarding the acquisition, please call 1.877.648.2582. Should you have questions about our products and offerings, please e-mail us at NewOfferings@diamondresorts.com. 

At Diamond Resorts International®, we are committed to your ongoing satisfaction and our goal is to build a positive and rewarding relationship with you. 

With that in mind, we will provide you with more choices for your vacations in the coming months. We can do this by taking advantage of Diamond being one of the largest hospitality companies in the world with more than 200 branded and affiliated resorts and over 27,000 guest beds in 28 countries with destinations throughout the continental United States and Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa. 

It is with great anticipation and excitement that we look forward to providing you with the vacation lifestyle you deserve, as well as introducing you to our industry-leading service program, The Meaning of Yes®. 

We will continue to provide you with updated information on your valuable ownership throughout the next few months. 

Sincerely, 

Diamond Resorts International® Team


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## dougp26364

Essentiially, things will stay exactly the same if you do nothing. You'll continue to enjoy your ownership just as you always have. DRI has several resorts that have mixed ownership types and they work in perfect harmony. 

You'll probably be offered the choice of putting your current ownership into DRI's THE Club points based system. We were offered this option for a price ($2,995 at the time) when DRI purchased Sunterra (we were DRI owners). If you do this, then you retain your original ownership rights but your weeks are converted to points that can be used to make reservations at any of the DRI resorts in THE Club. FWIW, I've found inventory for reservations at THE Club resorts to be very good to excellent at DRI managed resorts. Not so much at affiliated resorts where inventory is more limited. 

You'll probably be offered an option of joining one of the DRI trusts by purchasing trust points direct from DRI. If you do this, you'll essentially trade in your deeds for a trust interest ownership. Trust members can reserve any resort week available to trust members at the 13 month mark, giving them a head start on everyone else. You really don't have a home resort but you have a home resort group.


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## csalter2

*You will have more choices*

You may like some things about DRI such as more choices of accommodations. However, I am not sure how much your maintenace fees are now, but if Monarch let its resorts run down, DRI will in time refurbish and renovate so expect an increase in maintenance fees. That is the main complaint that new DRI owners felt during the first 2 or 3 years as there were steep increases. It has leveled off since then and maintenace fees are comparable to what I pay at my other timeshare or maybe even less. 

I think it's important that you understand that if you buy more points from DRI for the Club, you will have access to all of the resorts in the system and there will be no exchange fees. Also, your home trust collection allows you to make reservations as early as 13 months out. Resorts not in your trust will allow you to make reservations 10 months out. This helps owners of home resorts have an advantage in making reservations in their trust first.

Feel free to hit us up if you have any questions. I am sure you will have some.


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## nightnurse613

I would add that the 13 month reservation only applies if you have adequate Trust points - in this case, all points are not the same!


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## csalter2

*The number of points does not matter...*



nightnurse613 said:


> I would add that the 13 month reservation only applies if you have adequate Trust points - in this case, all points are not the same!



I have never heard or read that you needed a certain amount of points to belong to make a reservation 13 months out. I believe you only have to have points in that collection. Whatever home collection resort you belong to you can make a 13 month reservation.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

csalter2 said:


> I have never heard or read that you needed a certain amount of points to belong to make a reservation 13 months out. I believe you only have to have points in that collection. Whatever home collection resort you belong to you can make a 13 month reservation.


Reservation made using home resort advantage can only be made using points from that collection for the current year.  You can't use points that were saved from a prior year, or points that are borrowed from a future year. The net result is that if your annual points contract is not big enough to reserve a resort in the collection, you effectively do not have home resort advantage, unless you are willing to reserve only one or two nights.

A good example is a 2500 point contract in the Hawaii collection.  There is no unit in the Hawaii collection that can be reserved for a one-week stay 13 months in advance for 2500 points.  The only way that contract can be used to reserve one week within the home resort collection is to combine points across years and make a reservation outside the home resort advantage window. 

I think it's unethical for DRI salespeople to go through the Home Resort advantage spiel with prospects, then sell them a contract that won't get them more than two or three nights using Home Resort Advantage without making that point clear to buyers.


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## Kal

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ...I think it's unethical for DRI salespeople to go through the Home Resort advantage spiel with prospects, then sell them a contract that won't get them more than two or three nights using Home Resort Advantage without making that point clear to buyers.


 
OMG, I can't believe a person in the honorable profession of Time Share Sales Huckster would not tell the truth (the whole truth...blah, blah, blah) and be totally transparent, honest and forthcoming!   The next thing I will learn is that politicians do not abide by the same code of ethics (spelled S-C-U-M-B-A-G).


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## Bill4728

Right now both systems (MGV & DRI) have no value at all. People are giving away their ownerships in both systems. So the idea that you'd want to pay DRI ~$3000  to convert their MGV membership to DRI doesn't make sense to me. 

There are many people who may wish to own MGV"s collection of mostly SoCal resorts. And many people who might want to own DRI's "US collection" BUT I see little reason to pay to convert your MGV ownership to a DRI ownership. 

JMHO


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## Bill4728

EAPoe said:


> I am a Monarch Grand Vacations owner and I am trying to keep up with the transition to Diamond.  I keep being told that my "rights and privileges" will not change -- but I am not so sure.  *All of a sudden Diamond owners from around the world will be competing for the same spots with me at my home resorts?*



This will not really be true.  DRI will only be able to use the inventory they own. They must keep the inventory owned by the current MGV (AND the original  single resort owners) available for those owners use.  So if MGV has sold out 80% of their inventory, they must keep that 80% of the systems inventory available for those owners. They can offer only that inventory they bought when they took over MGV and the inventory of any current MGV owners who has chosen to join DRI.

This has been true the last 8 years already in MGV.  The owners of MGV had use of only a small amount of the inventory at Palm Caynon, Riviera Beach & Riviera Shores because most owners there bought before MGV was formed and they chose not to convert their owner-ships from the single resort to the multi- resort point system.


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## csalter2

Bill4728 said:


> Right now both systems (MGV & DRI) have no value at all. People are giving away their ownerships in both systems. So the idea that you'd want to pay DRI ~$3000  to convert their MGV membership to DRI doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> There are many people who may wish to own MGV"s collection of mostly SoCal resorts. And many people who might want to own DRI's "US collection" BUT I see little reason to pay to convert your MGV ownership to a DRI ownership.
> 
> JMHO



Bill,

If one has limited opportunities in the Monarch Collection which has a lot less resorts than the DRI system, then people who like to travel can find some value in going into DRI's system.  Remember, DRI has a lot of resorts all over the world, so there are no exchange fees on each of those exchanges within their system. I like that part a lot. 

Is DRI charging new Monarch clientele to join the Club? They did not do that to Sunterra owners. They just let us in without a fee. It was a no brainer for me. Also Club Select could be a good deal for someone like you who wanted additional points by trading one or more of your other units for additional DRI points. You can do that each year if you wish. 

It all depends on what strikes your fancy.


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## truebrit

*DRI not a pleasant first impression*

I just came from a Monarch to Diamond transition presentation. Seems good from what the sales staff have to say but read between the lines. We were told that the only way to convert Monarch weeks to the DRI point system was to upgrade by buying a minimum of 2500 points for around $7500. We could of course add 11000 points for a cost of $39999!! I assume you did not have to upgrade because Sunterra was a points system and not weeks. At first the minimum offered was 4000 points for $18000, it was only when I told them that was out of the question did I get the 2500 offer after the salesman "went to bat" for me with her manager. Anyway $6000 was the cheapest they would go for the 2500. ( the salesman graciously gave up her commission to get me this price) They were willing to give me 2500 points for $6000 but 4000 points cost $18000? Triple the money for only 60% more points. After all this did not make sense to me I emailed Mr. Cloobeck and got a reply from a "specialist" Veronica Dillon. She told me that they could not address my concerns and I should call the Monarch office. After a couple of more emails , she called me!!. She them proceeded to tell me that the points offered to MGV owners are ESTIMATES and do not necessarily reflect the actual value of what my weeks would convert to. Also the Maintenance fees are ESTIMATES also. I told her its like being forced to buy a car without knowing what you are buying. I also told her that this policy was bordering on illegal if it wasnt already. There are class action law suits against DRI also. I also understand that you give up your deed to MGV to get into the DRI Club points system. This leads me to think that certain rights for a deeded owner would also be relinquished. ( found this out later and not at the presentation) All this deceit led us to the decision of no to DRI. It might be ok for some of you but our first experience with DRI was way less than impressive. Do your research and make an informed decision. I asked Veronica Dillon to provide that information and was told to "have a nice day" and thats when the conversation ended. I also found out that for some people, Membership in Interval Gold is mandatory and is included in maintenance fees. I think this is why you dont pay exchange fees because you have already paid them!! These are my thoughts and opinions from my experience. I hope it helps you one way or the other.


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## ccwu

truebrit said:


> I   I also found out that for some people, Membership in Interval Gold is mandatory and is included in maintenance fees. I think this is why you dont pay exchange fees because you have already paid them!! These are my thoughts and opinions from my experience. I hope it helps you one way or the other.



As far as i know the II membership comes with the DRI membership.  It is free.  If you want to exchange in II, you still have to pay exchange fee of $139 (this is cheaper than RCI.)  You can get two bedroom Westin or Marriott for about 5,000 DRI points.  Which is cheaper than if you pay the MF for Westin or Marriott.  DRI owns a lots of resorts in Europe.  If you reserve in any DRI or DRI affiliated resorts other than you home resorts, you do not pay exchange fee.  Currently, I am a happy DRI member even I paid a high MF for my Hawaii collection points.  I gave up my deeded Kaanapali Beach Resort to DRI.  I found the only draw back for reservation is that to get your points back, you need to cancel 91 days in advance.  The protection fee is too high.


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## timeos2

ccwu said:


> As far as i know the II membership comes with the DRI membership.  It is free.  If you want to exchange in II, you still have to pay exchange fee of $139 (this is cheaper than RCI.)  You can get two bedroom Westin or Marriott for about 5,000 DRI points.  Which is cheaper than if you pay the MF for Westin or Marriott.  DRI owns a lots of resorts in Europe.  If you reserve in any DRI or DRI affiliated resorts other than you home resorts, you do not pay exchange fee.  Currently, I am a happy DRI member even I paid a high MF for my Hawaii collection points.  I gave up my deeded Kaanapali Beach Resort to DRI.  I found the only draw back for reservation is that to get your points back, you need to cancel 91 days in advance.  The protection fee is too high.



The II Gold does come with DRI Membership but it is NOT free! When it was changed from basic II to Gold two or three years ago the annual fees went up around $100. We were told then it was largely to cover the "upgrade" to Gold membership (which we did not want or need). You pay - no option. So while it is included in DRI Membership, it most certainly is NOT free. Everything DRI does - much of it needed and desirable especially resort and unit upgrades - is also not paid for by DRI (although sales love to suggest it is). It is funded by the owners. Again there is nothing wrong with that - it makes resorts better - but their spin that somehow they are paying for the improvements are twisted "facts".


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## truebrit

And this was why we said no. while we were seriously looking into converting, nothing the sales team was telling us was 100% certain and the way they sold it it was "never pay an exchange fee for the 200+ resorts around the world that DRI is involved with". And that is just not true. On top of the $6000 we would have to spend just to get to silver level, our main. fees would go up at least $600 per year. Again ESTIMATE only!! We liked the idea of using points for man. fees as we are not retired and have a hard time using all our time, but I have read stories that your $ value for your points when used for this purpose changes and your points may cover you fees one year but not the next. It seems that with MGV we know where we stand and after 9 years know the program and procedures well. DRI seems like more of a money pit than MGV is with them holding their hands out for more and more all the time.


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## dougp26364

Sales staff is usually the least informed of anyone in the timeshare business. That's unfortunate becasue they're often the front line of the timeshare business.

First, DRI has three different types of ownership:
Deeded weeks owners
Deeded weeks owners who are members of THE Club (points based exchanges but owners keep their deeds) 
Trust based owners who own a trust interest but no deed

From your description, it sounds as if the salesman was attempting to get you to convert your current ownership into a DRI trust based ownership. If you own deeds, you would relinquish your deeds for a trust interest. This may be the only option DRI now gives to join their points program.

In the past, owners of deeded weeks had the option to simply join THE Club, which is a overlay points based reservations system whereby deeded weeks are assigned a point value. Those weeks are put into a pool of weeks to be reserved by THE Club members. Owners are given a 2 month home resort advantage where only they can reserve at their home resort (owners can reserve their home resort weeks at 12 months from the check in date). Begining at 10 months, any THE Club member can reserve any week or night in THE Club regardless of which resort is their home resort. 

Trust owners can reserve any week or night in their trust group begining at 13 months. Trust owners who are also members of THE Club (it's an option, not mandatory) can reserve at any resort in THE Club at the 10 month mark. 

What it really sounds like to me is you have a complex system and a salesman who perhaps didn't fully understand what he was selling. It also sound as if the option to just join THE Club either isn't being offered or this sales office elected not to offer it as they won't make any money on the deal.

You might try calling or contacting DRI's telesales department and asking if it's possible to simply join THE Club without converting your weeks to a trust ownership or buying additional points. We were offered that option a few years back with DRI purchased Sunterra. The cost to simply join THE Club at that time was $2,995. If we'd have purchased additional points the fee would have been waived.

As to converting your points to MF payments, that's kind of a waste of money. Each point converts at a rate of 4 cents/point. That's approx 40% of the value or cost of a point. It's really not a good deal and is akin to paying a 60% comission for DRI to rent you points for you. It's fine you if have no other option but, if you already have trouble using all of your existing ownership I sure wouldn't buy more points just to sell them back to pay MF's. That's really a poor financial deal. Points are meant to be used to take vacations. Everything else is fine to have but not economically viable if it's the reason for ownership.


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## truebrit

Thats just it. If i want to be in DRI then I have NO OPTION but to buy 2500 points for $6000 that I dont want or need. This is the only way. When I am forced to spend thousands or dont join, Ill keep my Mgv weeks. And like I said before, they cannot even tell me exactly what I am getting.


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## coachr32

Last December, DW and I stayed at a DRI resort in Sedona, AZ. We knew that DRI was in the process of purchasing the "developers part" Pacific Monarch. As owners of Monach Grand Vacations, we decided to sit in on a timeshare presentation of DRI. We let them know right away that we were aware of what was going on with MGV and DRI. We sat down with "the specialist" that was dealing with MGV owners. Long story short, we were there for over 5hrs.:annoyed: :ignore: Yes, we listened to all the "great things" that DRI had over MGV. They even said that they would wave the $3000 fee to join "the club" (one time offer) At the end we had a paper infront of us that stated we were offered this deal and would not get it again.

Forward to this spring. We were at Cabo Azul (MGV) and went to an owners update meeting. Really wanted to find out what was going on with the sale. Meet with a sales rep who we have gotten to know there over the past five yrs. As we were going to receive our "goodies" the sales rep pulled us aside and said "KEEP YOUR MGV POINTS and DO NOT LET DRI convert you!"


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## truebrit

So it seems we made the correct decision. Doug, DRI seems to work foryou and that is great but it just does not seem a good idea forMGV owners. At least not for me. We were told that it will be harder to get time in MGV but since we were decieved about everything else, i suspect that this is untrue also.


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## coachr32

Question I have about DRI is that they have built this timeshare business by purchasing resorts that were in "bad shape" as "in need of cash". So with this purchase, DRI has to finish building Cabo Azul, finish the Cancun in Vegas and decide what to do with the property that is on the Big Island of Hawaii. The property in Hawaii has not even started to build. It is just the acreage that DRI has now. The Cabo Azul resort is the resort that DRI really wanted. DRI has yet, to my knowledge, to build any buildings on any of their properties. I will be following this to see how they come out.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

coachr32 said:


> Question I have about DRI is that they have built this timeshare business by purchasing resorts that were in "bad shape" as "in need of cash". So with this purchase, DRI has to finish building Cabo Azul, finish the Cancun in Vegas and decide what to do with the property that is on the Big Island of Hawaii. The property in Hawaii has not even started to build. It is just the acreage that DRI has now. The Cabo Azul resort is the resort that DRI really wanted. DRI has yet, to my knowledge, to build any buildings on any of their properties. I will be following this to see how they come out.



Where on the Big Island is the Monarch (now DRI) property?


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## coachr32

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Where on the Big Island is the Monarch (now DRI) property?



The property is in Kailua-Kona. It is near the Kona Reef Resort and Royal Kona Resort. It is not on the beach. It is on the opposite side of the road. Again no land has been cleared. The address is listed in the backrupcy documents. It was part of the developer-Pacific Monarch Grand, which was bought by DRI.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

coachr32 said:


> The property is in Kailua-Kona. It is near the Kona Reef Resort and Royal Kona Resort. It is not on the beach. It is on the opposite side of the road. Again no land has been cleared. The address is listed in the backrupcy documents. It was part of the developer-Pacific Monarch Grand, which was bought by DRI.



Thanks. I know roughly where that is.  I wonder whatever happened to the Hilo area property that DRI was supposed to closing in on several years ago.


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## coachr32

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Thanks. I know roughly where that is.  I wonder whatever happened to the Hilo area property that DRI was supposed to closing in on several years ago.



The Kona Reef Resort, a DRI affiliate resort and the developer Pacific Monach land are "next" to each other. So DRI could use the land to "improve" Kona Reef. Your guess is as good as mine so we will see want happens.


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## pedro47

coachr32 said:


> Question I have about DRI is that they have built this timeshare business by purchasing resorts that were in "bad shape" as "in need of cash". So with this purchase, DRI has to finish building Cabo Azul, finish the Cancun in Vegas and decide what to do with the property that is on the Big Island of Hawaii. The property in Hawaii has not even started to build. It is just the acreage that DRI has now. The Cabo Azul resort is the resort that DRI really wanted. DRI has yet, to my knowledge, to build any buildings on any of their properties. I will be following this to see how they come out.



It this in written that DRI have to completed these projects.


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## dougp26364

truebrit said:


> Thats just it. If i want to be in DRI then I have NO OPTION but to buy 2500 points for $6000 that I dont want or need. This is the only way. When I am forced to spend thousands or dont join, Ill keep my Mgv weeks. And like I said before, they cannot even tell me exactly what I am getting.





coachr32 said:


> Last December, DW and I stayed at a DRI resort in Sedona, AZ. We knew that DRI was in the process of purchasing the "developers part" Pacific Monarch. As owners of Monach Grand Vacations, we decided to sit in on a timeshare presentation of DRI. We let them know right away that we were aware of what was going on with MGV and DRI. We sat down with "the specialist" that was dealing with MGV owners. Long story short, we were there for over 5hrs.:annoyed: :ignore: Yes, we listened to all the "great things" that DRI had over MGV. They even said that *they would wave the $3000 fee to join "the club"* (one time offer) At the end we had a paper infront of us that stated we were offered this deal and would not get it again.
> 
> Forward to this spring. We were at Cabo Azul (MGV) and went to an owners update meeting. Really wanted to find out what was going on with the sale. Meet with a sales rep who we have gotten to know there over the past five yrs. As we were going to receive our "goodies" the sales rep pulled us aside and said "KEEP YOUR MGV POINTS and DO NOT LET DRI convert you!"





truebrit said:


> So it seems we made the correct decision. Doug, DRI seems to work foryou and that is great but it just does not seem a good idea forMGV owners. At least not for me. We were told that it will be harder to get time in MGV but since we were decieved about everything else, i suspect that this is untrue also.



OK, let me start by saying salesmen drive me insane at times. Most of the time I've found DRI sales staff to be low pressure and reasonably well informed. In the process of assuming the assests of a new company, as they did with Sunterra, the sales staff tends not to be up to DRI standards and it often takes a couple of years to infuse the "new" old staff with their intergrity. 

Like I said earlier, sales staff are sometimes the least informed and, I believe MGV staff is behind the power curve. Keeping in mind that these are comissioned sales agents, if you don't buy points, they don't make money. It's not in their best interests to tell you about a joiner fee. I've boldened the area where the joiner fee was mentioned before. Honestly, I don't know if this is still an option but, I'd find out if I were and Pacific Monarch owner who didn't want/need additional ownership interests. 

THE Club works very well for us. It's a great internal exchange program and DRI has an outstanding collection of resorts. When DRI bought Sunterra, we definately didn't need any more timeshares. We weren't using everything we owned. Our initial presentation was over the phone by a DRI rep. and not a Sunterra rep. We were given ALL of our options without pressure and we were given time to think about it. After consideration and looking at how we had been using our ownership and comparing it to how we could use our ownership with DRI, we elected to only pay the joiner fee rather than increase our ownership. 

I really wonder if the salesperson gave you all your options or only the options they wanted to tell you about. 

As far as the correct decision, perhaps you have with how you utlize your ownership. I can almost guarentee that you won't lose anything you've had in the past. That will remain intact. But you may be missing out on benefits if you were only told half truths and, sales staff tends to deal in half truths at best.


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## dougp26364

coachr32 said:


> Question I have about DRI is that they have built this timeshare business by purchasing resorts that were in "bad shape" as "in need of cash". So with this purchase, DRI *has to finish building Cabo Azul, finish the Cancun in Vegas * and decide what to do with the property that is on the Big Island of Hawaii. The property in Hawaii has not even started to build. It is just the acreage that DRI has now. The Cabo Azul resort is the resort that DRI really wanted. DRI has yet, to my knowledge, to build any buildings on any of their properties. I will be following this to see how they come out.



I wouldn't count on that. I doubt they have to finish anything. Construction costs are much higher than aquiring resort groups in trouble. If it's in DRI's best interest to build, they'll build. If not, they won't. I believe DRI has enough inventory to sell for the next several years without having to spend the money to build even more inventory. 

The only resort I'm aware of that was built by DRI has been Polo Towers. They have upgraded existing resorts, completed renovations and improvements that needed to be done but, I'm not sure they've done any new construction.

DRI has it's hands full at the Point at Poipu on Kauai where there was a massive water intrusion problem. There is a lot of construction and construction expense going on at that resort and, there's a massive special assessment to pay for that construction. 

I haven't seen the property so I don't know what phase it was in. Perhaps there is construction that needs to be done to make the resort reasonable. Perhaps the resort is built out enough to call it a resort. 

I can name a few resorts where projects have been started but aren't likely to be completed. With Marriott there's the builds in Vegas, Marco Island and Branson. HGVC has a project in Vegas on the N. end of the strip that's only half completed and likely won't see the third or fourth tower. HGVC also cancelled an announced build at Lake Las Vegas. French Quarter Resort and Grand Regency Resorts in Branson will never be built out as proposed (original developer is insolvent). Wyndham halted a project in Vegas that never even got started. I'm sure there are dozens more incidences of projects started but never completed as proposed.  

Other companies have land that either sits idle or has been sold. It's possible DRI will sell the land for the proposed Hawaiian property. 

There is not a lot of new buidling going on in timeshareland. Right now there's more mergers, aquisitions and bankruptcy. It might not be that way ten years from now but, that seem to be the name of the game for the time being.


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## dougp26364

coachr32 said:


> The Kona Reef Resort, a DRI affiliate resort and the developer Pacific Monach land are "next" to each other. So DRI could use the land to "improve" Kona Reef. Your guess is as good as mine so we will see want happens.



If it's an affiliated resort then DRI does not manage it. If DRI doesn't manage it, then they can't make improvements to it.


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## fluke

I also would say there is almost no chance DRI would ever build in Hawaii.  Their current model has worked out extremely well for them - don't expect a change.

DRI has a history of selling off property from new acquisitions.  It is far more likely that they would sell the land to bankroll a new aquisition of another distressed property - that would be their pattern.


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## truebrit

Doug, we were invited to this presentation, after a quick overall look at the program we were all herded into the movie theater to see the typical sales pitch in video form complete with all the testimonials imaginable. We have all seen these films before and I for one hate them. I hated them with MGV and I hate them with DRI. I had my coffee taken away from me at this point with the sales rep saying he gets in trouble if he lets drinks in the theater. What am I? Twelve? After the film it was more about how great Steven Cloobeck is and the "meaning of yes" and wasnt he great on "Undercover Boss". After I constantly asked "how much?" and after anothe quick tour of Europe and Hawaii in the choice book, I was offered the following:  upgrade with 11000 points for $40 THOUSAND dollars, 7500 points for around $25000 or 4000 points for $18000. Doug this was ALL i was offered. No straight exchange of weeks to points, no, as someone else said" we will waive the fees if you join today" Nothing. We only got the 2500 points at $6000 after we got home because 2500 points at the sales office was $7500. ( remember that was a special deal from her manager due to our loyalty of 9 years) So please tell me Doug, what more should they have offered? What are other people getting at other sales offices? I would love to know if there is a deal out there for me. The ones that were offered are definately not right. Its also funny how when you buy points, the best price I got was $2.29 each, the price is sooooo different when you want to pay main. Fees. I think you quoted $0.04 per point. Whose taking who to the cleaners here?


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## fluke

truebrit said:


> Doug, we were invited to this presentation, after a quick overall look at the program we were all herded into the movie theater to see the typical sales pitch in video form complete with all the testimonials imaginable. We have all seen these films before and I for one hate them. I hated them with MGV and I hate them with DRI. I had my coffee taken away from me at this point with the sales rep saying he gets in trouble if he lets drinks in the theater. What am I? Twelve? After the film it was more about how great Steven Cloobeck is and the "meaning of yes" and wasnt he great on "Undercover Boss". After I constantly asked "how much?" and after anothe quick tour of Europe and Hawaii in the choice book, I was offered the following:  upgrade with 11000 points for $40 THOUSAND dollars, 7500 points for around $25000 or 4000 points for $18000. Doug this was ALL i was offered. No straight exchange of weeks to points, no, as someone else said" we will waive the fees if you join today" Nothing. We only got the 2500 points at $6000 after we got home because 2500 points at the sales office was $7500. ( remember that was a special deal from her manager due to our loyalty of 9 years) So please tell me Doug, what more should they have offered? What are other people getting at other sales offices? I would love to know if there is a deal out there for me. The ones that were offered are definately not right. Its also funny how when you buy points, the best price I got was $2.29 each, the price is sooooo different when you want to pay main. Fees. I think you quoted $0.04 per point. Whose taking who to the cleaners here?



I don't believe Doug was suggesting that there are any specific deals out there.  He was just stating the obvious - the timeshare salesman gets paid for selling timeshares - so you are likely getting the presentation that is best for salesman.  He is suggesting(and I do to) that you follow up with corporate DRI to explore other options.  Let's face it most timeshare salesman could have been pushing used cars last week - I have witnessed a lot of shady practices(even amongst those sometimes hallowed Starwood and Marriott reps).

So get concrete answers about what you can convert,  what it will convert for, and what it will cost you.  If you don't like the offering don't take it.  DRI cannot stop you from using your current properties the way you have always used them.


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## Kal

fluke said:


> ...So get concrete answers about what you can convert, what it will convert for, and what it will cost you...


 
Concrete means IN WRITING.  Remember, if you purchase something it will most always include a line item similar to this: "any information obtained verbally cannot be relied upon and is without merit".

How special is that!


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## truebrit

Veronica Dillon, the "specialist" at DRI, cannot give concrete answers in writing so the answer is still no. I would really like to try the program but DRI is making it impossible. They offered a trial for $2500 but I am sure that opens up another can of worms. The more I learn about DRI the more I understand they do nothing that does not benefit DRI first. The owners and members always seem to come second which is sad when its the latter that makes it all possible. MGV is like that too but it just seems to a lesser degree.


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## dougp26364

truebrit said:


> Doug, we were invited to this presentation, after a quick overall look at the program we were all herded into the movie theater to see the typical sales pitch in video form complete with all the testimonials imaginable. We have all seen these films before and I for one hate them. I hated them with MGV and I hate them with DRI. I had my coffee taken away from me at this point with the sales rep saying he gets in trouble if he lets drinks in the theater. What am I? Twelve? After the film it was more about how great Steven Cloobeck is and the "meaning of yes" and wasnt he great on "Undercover Boss". After I constantly asked "how much?" and after anothe quick tour of Europe and Hawaii in the choice book, I was offered the following:  upgrade with 11000 points for $40 THOUSAND dollars, 7500 points for around $25000 or 4000 points for $18000. Doug this was ALL i was offered. No straight exchange of weeks to points, no, as someone else said" we will waive the fees if you join today" Nothing. We only got the 2500 points at $6000 after we got home because 2500 points at the sales office was $7500. ( remember that was a special deal from her manager due to our loyalty of 9 years) So please tell me Doug, what more should they have offered? What are other people getting at other sales offices? I would love to know if there is a deal out there for me. The ones that were offered are definately not right. Its also funny how when you buy points, the best price I got was $2.29 each, the price is sooooo different when you want to pay main. Fees. I think you quoted $0.04 per point. Whose taking who to the cleaners here?




First, I'm not certain what the current offers are from DRI for conversion

Second, sales staff is often from the previous management company and has not been fully trained.

Third, sales staff often won't give you all your options. They'll only give you the options that make them the most $$

Fourth, *contact DRI's sales department via their website *at https://www.diamondresorts.com/contact.aspx . Ask them if you can join THE Club without buying additional points. Someone had mentioned in their presentaion that if they bought more points, the joiner fee would be waived. If they're waiving a joiner fee then there must be a fee to simply join THE Club without buying additional points.

Finally, THE Club definately does not work for everyone. However, it sounds as if you could be interested in THE Club if you can join without having to buy additional points. If that's the case I would do as I've said and go directly to DRI's website sales department. Just because a former MGV club salesman told you one thing does not mean he told you everything.

If there is still a way to join THE Club without buying points, it's still not inexpensive. We paid $2,995 a few years back to join. It was enough money we had to think about it. In the end, I looked at our past usage, the points our weeks were worth in THE Club and compared past usage and expenses with what it would have cost to do the same in THE Club. In the end we were able to determine that we were leaving money on the table by not being in THE Club. In fact, based on the expenses of THE Club at the time and projected future usage of our weeks, we determined that it would take approx. 3 years for us to break even on the cost of joining THE Club. After three years our calculations turned out to be correct.

I also mentioned that using points to pay MF's should NOT be a consideration for buying additional points and I explained why. Will a timeshare salesman try to sell that as a benefit? You bet they will. Is it a good deal? Heck no it's not. You must be informed going into a presentation and, if you're not, you need to do as you're doing now and inform yourself. Per the TUG home page: Knowledge is power.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

dougp26364 said:


> I also mentioned that using points to pay MF's should NOT be a consideration for buying additional points and I explained why. Will a timeshare salesman try to sell that as a benefit? You bet they will. Is it a good deal? Heck no it's not. You must be informed going into a presentation and, if you're not, you need to do as you're doing now and inform yourself. Per the TUG home page: Knowledge is power.



Beyond that, using points for anything other than reservations in any system (not just DRI) will almost never be a good deal.  Using points for anything other than reservations should be a last resort, when the points are in your account and (meaning that you've already paid for them) and there isn't any reasonable way you can use them for reservations.


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## truebrit

Joining this group was the best thing I could have done as I have received VERY valuble advice and great points have been made by all. Thank You Doug for all your positive feedback regarding DRI. I am glad you are enjoying your membership. I have learned more from all of you than I did from Ms. Dillon or the sales staff. I am glad we waited but I think we will wait a while longer to see how MGV plays out. And if we decide to convert I will check the DRI site first.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

truebrit said:


> I have learned more from all of you than I did from Ms. Dillon or the sales staff.



There are some of us here, doug for example, who know more about the workings of the DRI system than 95% of the sales staff. Like any organization DRI feeds its sales staff info to *sell* the product.  That's not the same as the info to *use* the product.


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## pedro47

To the OP, I will second Doug, The Club does work !


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## fluke

truebrit said:


> Joining this group was the best thing I could have done as I have received VERY valuble advice and great points have been made by all. Thank You Doug for all your positive feedback regarding DRI. I am glad you are enjoying your membership. I have learned more from all of you than I did from Ms. Dillon or the sales staff. I am glad we waited but I think we will wait a while longer to see how MGV plays out. And if we decide to convert I will check the DRI site first.



I think waiting and educating yourself is very prudent action in the world of timesharing.  Never let yourself be pressured into an action by sales staff - in general the least knowledgable people within the organization.  

I think you have time the official announcements about MGV acquisition are only a month or two old.  There may not even be a definitive conversion set up yet - but don't think that will stop salesman from trying to sell you points.

Times of transition are often full of choas.


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## timeos2

We have been satisfied members of The Club since Sunterra formed it in 1998. But you should NOT give up your deed (IMO). If you do you lose voting and deeded rights at the resort you own & "gain" a blended fee that includes a hefty overhead (and often averages higher than the straight annual fee is at the home resort) as well as getting no meaningful vote in the operations as your vote is easily overwhelmed by the massive control of DRI ownerships. 

The Club itself works great and with our deed intact if we tire of it we simply drop out. No muss, no fuss. Nothing to worry about selling or giving away - and it only cost us $1100 to buy in (more now - I tink it's $2900).  IF you want into the DRI Club system that is the way I wold recommend. I would never recommend paying to give up your deed to them. Ever.


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## fluke

If you wanted to call DRI corporate I would suggest calling owner enhancement department at 1.866.804.9049.  See what they can tell you.


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## truebrit

And the useful information just keeps coming!!, I thank you all again


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## dougp26364

timeos2 said:


> We have been satisfied members of The Club since Sunterra formed it in 1998. But you should NOT give up your deed (IMO). If you do you lose voting and deeded rights at the resort you own & "gain" a blended fee that includes a hefty overhead (and often averages higher than the straight annual fee is at the home resort) as well as getting no meaningful vote in the operations as your vote is easily overwhelmed by the massive control of DRI ownerships.
> 
> The Club itself works great and with our deed intact if we tire of it we simply drop out. No muss, no fuss. Nothing to worry about selling or giving away - and it only cost us $1100 to buy in (more now - I tink it's $2900).  IF you want into the DRI Club system that is the way I wold recommend. I would never recommend paying to give up your deed to them. Ever.



I have to put in my two cents on the worth of voting rights. Basically, I feel it's over rated. Once the trust membership grows to a certain level voting rights become a moot point. Since the trust votes in a block and owners are never in step with each other, if they even vote at all, it doesn't take much for the trust to have it's way with anything put before the HOA.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

dougp26364 said:


> I have to put in my two cents on the worth of voting rights. Basically, I feel it's over rated. Once the trust membership grows to a certain level voting rights become a moot point. Since the trust votes in a block and owners are never in step with each other, if they even vote at all, it doesn't take much for the trust to have it's way with anything put before the HOA.



I agree totally with Doug here, and I want to play out the scenario a bit.  

What is going to happen is that as DRI runs it's sales program, some portion of Monarch are going to buy in, and their ownerships will be added to one of the DRI trusts.  What those owners are doing is swapping their Monarch ownership for ownership in one of the DRI trusts.

At that point, those people are no longer Monarch owners; they are owners in a DRI trust.  When they cast their vote for directors, they vote for directors of the trust, not for directors of the resort.  Since it is the trust that now owns the Monarch ownership, it's is now the trust that votes those memberships.  So, if 10% of the Monarch owners convert, now there is a bloc of 10% of Monarch ownership, represented by the DRI trust.  And since that trust always votes as a bloc, that vote is huge. In practical terms. at somewhere around 10% of ownership the trust essentially controls what happens at the resort.

*****

What does that mean for those Monarch owners who don't convert?  It means that like it or not, the future of their resort is going to be controlled by the trust.  So even if you decide you don't want to join the DRI Club, you still need to recognize that for practical purposes DRI is going to call the shots at your resort.  Of course, Monarch was already calling the shots, so what is happening is that DRI will replace Monarch as your liege.  

If you decide you don't like that change you should bail at the first good opportunity.


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## nightnurse613

More (late breaking news).  We recently attended an owners update. After not buying 6,000 more points for $30,000 (ALL of these figures are best recollection and are probably NOT accurate) Their main selling point was letting us buy more points at the "old price" ($2) versus the new price $6. But only a certain amount.  At the end of the deal they wheeled out 15K points for $2000 AND would allow us to keep the "old price" for 18 months (in case we changed our mind).  We were actually ready to sign up for that until we finally realized that THOSE points could NOT be used for reservations - only car rentals, ancillary services, etc).  In the end they got me to sign up for an II Credit Card - which I am about to cancel.....


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## timeos2

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What does that mean for those Monarch owners who don't convert?  It means that like it or not, the future of their resort is going to be controlled by the trust.  So even if you decide you don't want to join the DRI Club, you still need to recognize that for practical purposes DRI is going to call the shots at your resort.  Of course, Monarch was already calling the shots, so what is happening is that DRI will replace Monarch as your liege.
> 
> If you decide you don't like that change you should bail at the first good opportunity.



While I cannot speak to Monarch (but since it is not an original DRI resort the following may apply) here's why it IS critical that an owner holds on to their effective voting rights at the resort - not club - level:

 - The Resort is actually run by the owners. Not controlled by DRI (or any other developer).
  - The Developer (in this case DRI) does get a say - maybe by units directly owned or through the Trust/Club - as they hold a seat or more on the BOD. However, they do not hold the majority and in fact State law/regulations prevents them from ever regaining control of the resort HOA Board as they are the subsequent Developer.  So the individual owners, not DRI, get to say how the resort is operated, who is the management, set the fees, etc.  If those critical areas are turned over to any Developer/Club/Trust then owners are at the mercy of that Developer/Operator and we all see (look at Hawaii) what can happen when they hold the control. 

 - Resorts and owner have fought to get these rights yet too many hand them away without a thought when presented with a costly way to give up their deeds and join a trust or club. No thanks.  The voluntary method - no giving up of the deed - is less costly, less risky and we retain our rights. It also gets us access to the Club resorts & features. We also get a (meaningless) vote about the Club, but as stated it can be easily overridden by the massive votes controlled in the Trust by DRI. 

We have been approached many times to convert to Trust ownership but, after we saw what happened to those that did  (mostly higher, not the promised lower fees among other issues) we are never even tempted to make that change.


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## nightnurse613

The Villas of Sedona may have an innovative approach - if it's not too late. They are proposing an amendment that you can only have one member on the BOD "identified with, related to, employed by, affiliated with, or otherwise representative of any one person or entity, or any parent, subsidiary or affiliate thereof."


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## Etgmom

*Monarch grand transitions to dri*

I am in Cabo azul in Cabo
Went to diamond owners presentation
They offer u double points 
In our case it would be 17 k to
Convert to diamond lol

And we are existing diamond resorts members
We were basically told if we don't buy into
Diamond now in a few yrs we will not get into
Cabo azul because the diamond pool is larger

Not happy timeshare owners now
They say 60 percent of mg members have
Already converted


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## dougp26364

Etgmom said:


> I am in Cabo azul in Cabo
> Went to diamond owners presentation
> They offer u double points
> In our case it would be 17 k to
> Convert to diamond lol
> 
> And we are existing diamond resorts members
> We were basically told if we don't buy into
> Diamond now in a few yrs we will not get into
> Cabo azul because the diamond pool is larger
> 
> Not happy timeshare owners now
> They say 60 percent of mg members have
> Already converted



NEVER trust a timeshare sales person who uses fear as a reason for you to spend money. IMHO, what you've been told is a lie and nothing else. Don't worry about your ownership. Nothing will change. 

DRI has a strong history of keeping trust inventory and weeks inventory seperate. If you're not reading a lot of complaints from weeks owners with DRI not being able to get into their home resorts, then it's not going to happen at your resort.


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## csalter2

*You'll Be Fine*



Etgmom said:


> I am in Cabo azul in Cabo
> Went to diamond owners presentation
> They offer u double points
> In our case it would be 17 k to
> Convert to diamond lol
> 
> And we are existing diamond resorts members
> We were basically told if we don't buy into
> Diamond now in a few yrs we will not get into
> Cabo azul because the diamond pool is larger
> 
> Not happy timeshare owners now
> They say 60 percent of mg members have
> Already converted



I would not worry too much about this. I have been in DRI for a whiile and getting into your home resort should not be a problem. I can't even believe they're saying that when tourism to Mexico is so low right now. Cruise lines have even altered their routes there. That in itself should tell you something about the salesperson.


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## fluke

Etgmom said:


> I am in Cabo azul in Cabo
> Went to diamond owners presentation
> They offer u double points
> In our case it would be 17 k to
> Convert to diamond lol
> 
> And we are existing diamond resorts members
> We were basically told if we don't buy into
> Diamond now in a few yrs we will not get into
> Cabo azul because the diamond pool is larger
> 
> Not happy timeshare owners now
> They say 60 percent of mg members have
> Already converted



Just another salesman utilizizing any tactic to make a sale.  If I were you I would try to get in contact with Corpaorate DRI and ask some questions.  But don't jump in to anything.  I am not even sure whether DRI has a real setup to handle the MGV people yet.  We have seen alot of conflicting posts here. 

You could try to contact owner enhancement department at DRI (866.804.9049) and see what they say.


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## dougp26364

If you remember the salesmans name, DRI corporate would probably interested in hearing what you've been told.Typically I've learned they frown on this behavior from their sales staff.


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## Quimby4

Ok, I am totally confused.
I thought I read that nothing was changing with Monarch Grand.
I own a deeded unit at Riviera Beach Spa Resort, not MGV points.
So, how am I effected by the sale?
I generally trade the unit through II, but looking at DRI, I like some of their resorts in Tahoe and Carlsbad.  Can I trade through DRI?


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## csalter2

*Your Membership Does not Have to Change*



Quimby4 said:


> Ok, I am totally confused.
> I thought I read that nothing was changing with Monarch Grand.
> I own a deeded unit at Riviera Beach Spa Resort, not MGV points.
> So, how am I effected by the sale?
> I generally trade the unit through II, but looking at DRI, I like some of their resorts in Tahoe and Carlsbad.  Can I trade through DRI?



You will be allowed to keep your deeded unit as is. However, in order for you to take advantage of some of DRI's other resorts you will need to either trade/exchange with Interval International as always, or you will need to join DRI Club system which is a points system. They will want you to turn your deeded units into points. There are some who have gotten the ability to turn the week into points but without having to give  up their deed. If you turn your unit into points you may then be able to have access to all of DRI"s resorts.


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## dougp26364

csalter2 said:


> You will be allowed to keep your deeded unit as is. However, in order for you to take advantage of some of DRI's other resorts you will need to either trade/exchange with Interval International as always, or you will need to join DRI Club system which is a points system. They will want you to turn your deeded units into points. There are some who have gotten the ability to turn the week into points but without having to give  up their deed. If you turn your unit into points you may then be able to have access to all of DRI"s resorts.



DRI has three levels of ownership that I'm aware of:

Deeded week owners
Deeded week owners in THE Club
Trust based owners who own an intrust in a trust (no deeded week, just a trust interest represented by points)

I do not know if DRI allows deeded week owners to simply join THE Club as they have in the past. A couple of years ago that's what we did, join THE Club without converting our units into one of the trusts. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advantages of only joining THE Club are:

You keep your deeded week 

You only pay the management fee for THE Club and not the trust management fee in addition to THE Clubs fee

Advantages of being a Trust owner:

Any special assessments at one of the trust resorts are spread evenly amoungst the trust owners (still hurt those in the Hawaiian trust when the Point at Poipu had such a large SA)

You have a 13 month home resort booking advantage at all of the trust resorts in your group vs a 12 month home resort booking advantage for weeks owners.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, if all of the sudden you're worried trust owners could get a jump on deeded weeks owners and book all the inventory before weeks owners get a chance, don't worry. DRI keeps the inventories seperate. Trust owners can only book enough deeds that have been put into the trust at each resort and can't book all the weeks at one resort, leaving nothing for deeded weeks owners. It's complex but they've apparently done a very good job. I have yet to read complaints from deeded week owners who coudln't book into their home resorts during their home resort booking advantage window.


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## csalter2

*You know better*

Doug, 

You know better than that. Everything is negotiable!


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## pedro47

This is one amazing thread !!!


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## TheWizz

For anyone that owns Monarch and is being pressured to convert to DRI Trust Points:  (a) don't convert your deeded weeks to points as the MFs are much higher $$ per point value in the DRI Trust; (b) let the dust settle for a few months on the acquisition; then (c) see note "a" above!

I received a call from the DRI Ownership Enhancement Dept. shortly after the Sunterra acquisition to see about bringing my Sunterra and Diamond timeshares into a single DRI THE Clue points system.  I was able to do so for $2995 and also got them to agree to include any/all DRI timeshares purchased within the next 12 mo. as well.  So I was able to get another unit (off EBay for $400) at Polo Towers and include that as well to get to DRI Gold Elite level.

For those of you that have been told the only way to get into THE Club is to buy more points, (unless something has changed recently), you might be able to get access to all the DRI resorts and Affiliates of THE Club for the $2995 conversion fee and retain your deeded timeshare units.  The Ph# to DRI Ownership Enhancement Dept. is 800-966-1392.  Good luck!!


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## TNSexton

*Mgv Owners: Do Not Transfer To Diamond!!!*

Let me first share the experience my wife and I had at our recent "Owner's Update" at the Palm Canyon Resort in Palm Springs this past week, then I’ll share my thoughts on that experience.

When we checked in, we signed up for an Owner’s Update as we were curious to learn how Diamond’s new ownership of MGV would affect our Monarch points etc. When we sat down with a sales rep, he didn’t even bother to butter us up at all, he just started by telling us that the program we’d bought into with Monarch would no longer be available. When we last purchased points, Monarch had sold us on a program that would give us numerous extras and benefits once we got to 600 total points. We are currently at 399 and had planned to reach the 600 points in the next 4-5 years.  Now, that was no longer available.

Next, he explained what our options would be if we wanted to transfer our points to the Diamond system. This is where things got really weird. He first informed us that our points would transfer at an exchange rate BETWEEN 15 & 30x as Diamond operates on thousands while Monarch operates on hundreds. When we asked why there wasn’t a fixed rate of transfer for the points, he said, "I don't know." We then immediately asked, what is the variable in the exchange rate based on, credit, length of time as owners or something else. His answer again was, “I don’t know.” 

He then showed us a couple of examples of their points system and what would be required to stay at certain resorts. Right now, our 399 points are good for 3 weeks total in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul where the time was originally purchased over two years. At the low end 15x exchange rate, we’d have 5,985 points in the Diamond program for one year, but a number of the resorts we were shown required close to 7,000 points for a week in a one bedroom. We were less than thrilled.

So, our next question was how many points in the Diamond system would it take to stay in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul for a week. He couldn’t answer this question either. His response was, “we won’t know until January 1st, 2013 when Diamond takes control of their portions of the MGV properties." 

At this point, we were pretty unimpressed and somewhat perturbed by this whole situation and so the saleman asked his supervisor over to help clarify some of the points. She basically went through the same exact pitch, unable to answer the same questions, but instead of approaching the exchange from the low end, she used examples of the 30x exchange ratio. When we asked her what the exchange ratio was based on, she said, “I don’t know.”

WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?  This is like a craps shoot or a lottery. *I’m not gambling with the value of our existing timeshare*, hoping it will work out in our favor! Who would take this offer, it’s INSANE! 

So, then they said, “we’ll be willing to waive the new member fee of $2,995 if you sign up with us today, but you’ll need to purchase a minimum of 2,500 points with us as well.” We told them there was no way we’d gamble with our Monarch points when they couldn’t tell us what the exchange rate was based on and because there is no example of how many Diamond points will be needed to stay at any of the Monarch resorts, there is no way for us to quantify the value of Diamond’s points system. To this, the woman supervisor said, “I just showed you a number of examples of how many points would be required to stay at different Diamond resorts.” I retorted, “I haven’t stayed at any of these places, I haven’t seen any details or specifics on these rooms, a list of the amenities, or more than one picture of the front of the resort. I cannot possible assess the value of a one bedroom at these resorts we’ve never been to or had the chance to research. 

With that, we said we would not be switching to Diamond at this time and they asked us to sign a form that said we acknowledged we were offered the deal where they’d waive the $2,995 entrance fee and that this offer would not be available to us again. *We refused to sign it.* I told them it was not fair to be given an ultimatum when we only wanted an update on the goings on of the company. Especially when there were so many unanswered questions and we had not been given substantial time to review the Diamond program or their many properties.

*They did not make us sign it and neither should anyone else.* This sales pitch was the worst I’ve ever heard, we were literally floored by the unprecedented approach they took in trying to convince us to switch with minimal information being provided. Why would anyone make a decision of that magnitude based on hearsay and speculation?!?!?  Until Diamond can offer rock solid information about how they are converting Monarch owners and are able to give comparison points rates for the existing Monarch properties using their points system, it is absurd that anyone would even consider switching over. 

Don’t be fooled by their pitch, don’t buy into something where a company is asking you to gamble with the value of your existing timeshare and they have no way to give you a quantified value to compare your existing points to.


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## RoadScholar

*Keep the MGV Ownership as Leverage*

I went to an "Owner's Meeting" at MGV's Cabo Azul resort this afternoon. While my wife and I didn't have TNSexton's experience with a salesperson who didn't bother to butter us up, we did get some of that high-pressue "one time amazing opportunity" schtick to convert to DRI points. Based on reading this thread, and based on my and my wife's desire just to get the goodies and buy and sign nothing, we managed to short-circuit most of the presentation. The sales lady told us we could get 30 DRI points for each MGV point (for which DRI people paid $6/point to acquire. Uh huh.) When she asked us what we wanted, I said I wanted to be able to make an informed decision about whether I wanted this conversion, and that I wasn't interested in being told I would only have this opportunity to have the $3000 initiation fee waived, and that I wanted to know how they came up with the 30/1 ratio and if that would change to something more favorable next week. Definitely not the best way to win friends and influence people. However, it prompted her to bring out the sales manager.

Bottom line is my wife asked whether anything would change if we kept our MGV interest, to which he replied that Diamond would honor existing contracts. However, since we only have 133 points, that meant we would be limited to a street-view one-bedroom suite for a week every other year at Cabo Azul, plus we are paying maintenance fees every year even though we can only use our points once every other year. When we confirmed we were interested in doing nothing that day, he thanked us and we went on our merry way with goodies. 

I've researched the MGV's structure, bankruptcy and all that. I've also thought about some of the claims I've heard about how bad things will be if we keep our MGV membership. Here are my thoughts on that.

*Once Diamond takes over, you will be competing with hundreds of thousands of people for timeshare space.* False. My timeshare points are part of MGVOA, the non-profit HOA that was deeded ownership of the properties in exchange for allowing Pacific Monarch (PM) to be their exclusive sales agent. DRI did purchase all the unsold timeshares, and therefore a proportionate amount of the ownership of the properties. DRI has no ability to book the part of the properties they don't own. For the properties in the US, for sure this means no decrease in availibility. For Cabo Azul, there is something different going on, but I don't fully understand that yet and cannot comment on whether I will be competing with others.

*Your maintenance fees will skyrocket as MGV members convert.* Doubtful. Maintenance fees are calculated by calculating the total maintence for the properties and portions of properties owned by MGVOA and divided by the total number of points sold, to come up with a price per point. If there are fewer MGVOA owners to pay the fees, that is because they no longer have that obligation due to transferring their ownership interest to DRI. That portion of the maintence fees would either be paid by DRI as an owner, or otherwise removed from the MF calculation. The MFs can skyrocket, but not because their is a smaller pool of owners to pay the same amount. DRI doesn't get it both ways where they get to acquire ownership interests, but get to require legacy owners to subsidize their maintenance fees.

All I know is that Diamond is in an awful hurry to get rid of legacy MGV owners and is trying carrots and sticks to get them to convert. That tells me I have something they badly want, and therefore leverage since they are so eager to have me change. I can hold out until I get them to give me an offer I couldn't pass up. If they can make that "one time" offer to me today, they could tommorrow, or next month. There is always room to make a deal. Until then, it seems I have nothing left to lose.

What I have said is accurate to the best of my knowledge, but I realize I could be flagarantly wrong about something. IOW, take what I say with a grain of salt, just as you should take anything a salesperson says with a mountain of salt. But one sure rule, as TNSexton points out is: Don't commit to anything at the presentation and _don't sign anything._ Wait for the dust to settle and when Diamond comes up with something solid and consistent, only then consider converting. As my dad used to tell me, a good deal won't come around again until the next good deal comes along.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

RoadScholar said:


> [snip]
> I've researched the MGV's structure, bankruptcy and all that. I've also thought about some of the claims I've heard about how bad things will be if we keep our MGV membership. Here are my thoughts on that.
> 
> *Once Diamond takes over, you will be competing with hundreds of thousands of people for timeshare space.* False. My timeshare points are part of MGVOA, the non-profit HOA that was deeded ownership of the properties in exchange for allowing Pacific Monarch (PM) to be their exclusive sales agent. DRI did purchase all the unsold timeshares, and therefore a proportionate amount of the ownership of the properties. DRI has no ability to book the part of the properties they don't own. For the properties in the US, for sure this means no decrease in availibility. For Cabo Azul, there is something different going on, but I don't fully understand that yet and cannot comment on whether I will be competing with others.
> 
> *Your maintenance fees will skyrocket as MGV members convert.* Doubtful. Maintenance fees are calculated by calculating the total maintence for the properties and portions of properties owned by MGVOA and divided by the total number of points sold, to come up with a price per point. If there are fewer MGVOA owners to pay the fees, that is because they no longer have that obligation due to transferring their ownership interest to DRI. That portion of the maintence fees would either be paid by DRI as an owner, or otherwise removed from the MF calculation. The MFs can skyrocket, but not because their is a smaller pool of owners to pay the same amount. DRI doesn't get it both ways where they get to acquire ownership interests, but get to require legacy owners to subsidize their maintenance fees.[snip]


You are exactly correct on both counts.  And on the operating side as far as I have been able to determine, Diamond does toe the line in keeping resort inventory allocated between Club members and non-Club members.

As for resort maintenance fees, the presence of the Club makes no difference.  The cost of running the resort is what it is, regardless of the presence or absence of the Club.  That cost is simply passed on to resort ownership interests in accordance with what is owned.  

The stories you were told are pretty much what was being put forth by the old Sunterra sales personnel after Diamond took over Sunterra.  Over the years Diamond has weeded out most of the sales personnel spinning those stories.  I would hope the same will happen with the Monarch reps that DRI acquired as well.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

robcrusoe said:


> What is your basis for this statement?
> as I have been able to determine, Diamond does toe the line in keeping resort inventory allocated
> while I can see different inventory between my Club accts and my collection/non-Club accts, that doesn't mean they don't mix



Conversations that I have had with behind the scenes personnel at Diamond who are responsible for inventory control about how the inventory control system and how the ownership pools are managed.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

robcrusoe said:


> The stories are pretty much the same for any timeshare outfit that takes over or absorbs another, they want the $$$ for conversions and up-sells,  DRI trains their new teams, what does that tell you?



Of course they are going to upsell.  But I've noted a significant upgrade in the "quality" of the sales pitch, so to speak.  An example - at the conclusion of the "owners update" there is a meeting with a QA rep. It really is a QA session, not an excuse to try to make a last ditch sales pitch.  The QA rep asks a series of questions, one of which is "Were you told that if you didn't join the Club you would lose your existing benefits?".

So I guess that what I'm saying is that the quality of the lies has improved.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

robcrusoe said:


> MFs will most assuredly go up, not because of the presence of THE Club per se, but because of the demonstrated track record of the DRI management, it's the owners who pay for all upgrades that DRI sees fit to make


Can't disagree with you there.  Diamond wouldn't be getting involved and attaching their name to the resorts without having the ability to make the resorts conform to what they want the resort to be. 

I doubt that it was any different for Monarch; no well-run business puts itself in a position in which third parties get to control it's image.  If Monarch was so badly managed as to put itself in such as position, it's little surprise they were teetering on insolvency.

***

That being said, Diamond certainly is trying to position as a higher quality brand within the industry.  So, yeah, they are going to be doing what they can to upgrade and it will be paid through maintenance fees.

Their MO will be probably be to get existing Monarch owners to move their ownership interests in the Monarch trust into one of the DRI trust collection.  That will mean that the DRI trust will become one of the owners within the Monarch owners group - and it will very quickly become the largest single owner within the Monarch owners group.  When the DRI trust becomes sufficiently big as an owner, it will have the voting power to control the Monarch owners group.  It's likely that no more than 10% of Monarch owners vote in the Monarch owners group elections.  If that's the case, DRI will be large enough to take control of the Monarch owners group when DRI reaches the same size.  

IMHO that's the big impetus for DRI to try to get Monarch owners to convert.  To get big enough to gain effective control of the owners group they have to get owners to swap their Monarch ownership for an ownership in a DRI trust.


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## Bill4728

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ... Their MO will be probably be to get existing Monarch owners to move their ownership interests in the Monarch trust into one of the DRI trust collection.  That will mean that the DRI trust will become one of the owners within the Monarch owners group - and it will very quickly become the largest single owner within the Monarch owners group.  When the DRI trust becomes sufficiently big as an owner, it will have the voting power to control the Monarch owners group.  It's likely that no more than 10% of Monarch owners vote in the Monarch owners group elections.  If that's the case, DRI will be large enough to take control of the Monarch owners group when DRI reaches the same size.
> 
> IMHO that's the big impetus for DRI to try to get Monarch owners to convert.  To get big enough to gain effective control of the owners group they have to get owners to swap their Monarch ownership for an ownership in a DRI trust.


I'll guess that this may already be true. Pacific Monarch had a large amount of ownership in MGV and just like DRI much of it is in a non deeded trust,  so if someone didn't pay their dues  MGV (and now DRI) can just say the membership is in default and take it.  

At this time the best way for MGV owners to get into DRI "the club" may be to do a backdoor deal. Buy a DRI controlled resort, then upgrade with the clause that any other DRI resorts you owe will be allowed into the club.  I would stay away from a straight "up grade" of a MGV onwership to a DRI ownership. 

FYI  at this time 111 MGV pts can get you a 1 bd  "mid season" week at most of the MGV resorts. 133 pts can get you a 1 bd during high season (144 for 2 bd).  Unless the DRI conversion  nets you similar stays within DRI you're getting ripped off. 
( the newest MGV resort in Cabo takes almost 2x more points than the other MGV resorts)


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## fluke

I would like to state that per the DRI Members Forum the MGV and DRI points are seperate at this time.  They plan to consolidate in the future but it has not happened.  MGV owners please ignore sales reps contrary declarations.


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## starseeds13

*pacific grand monarch class action lawsuit?*

does anyone have any updates/information of how to get involved?


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## TomSoCal

starseeds13 said:


> does anyone have any updates/information of how to get involved?



I have never heard of such a lawsuit.  Only a class action at DRI's Poipu Point resort.


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## EAPoe

*Monarch Information Webpage*

A Monarch owner has put up an excellent web page with the information that he has learned -- and the lies being told by Diamond.

The link is here: http://www.monarchowner.com

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?


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## Bill4728

Just a quick note;

As of a few months ago, you can make reservations at any of the Monarch Grand resorts by using the DRI website. Your MGV pts are equal to 60 DRI points. So if you had 133 MGV points you now have 7980 DRI points to use to make reservations. 

I had no problem making reservations for next easter at Riviera Shores but there was nothing at all available at Riviera Beach.

Edited to add:  NOTE  earlier in this thread there was a discussion of getting 30 DRI pts for each MGV point. This is still true but remember that your MGV pts which are *points every 24 months*, these DRI points would be *points per year*. So when using MGV pts making reservation you get 60 DRI pts / MGV pt. BUT if you want to convert your MGV ownership to DRI ownership you'll get 30 *annual *DRI pts / MGV pt.


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