# DVC QUESTIONS AND ADVICE PLEASE!



## Katiemaylily (Nov 28, 2016)

My father is looking to invest in DVC for my sister and I so we have been looking quite a bit at the program and properties. We need a 3 bedroom so we like Saratoga's villas. Yesterday we were given a tour and the guide tried to sell us 410 points for 57,400k with annual costs of $2176 and a closing amount of $1200. We asked about the possibility of combining a 100 point deed which we would get directly from Disney with an outside resale and she said she could not legally answer. We also asked if we ever decided to sell back our deed would they purchase it at that current time's market value and she said she could not legally answer. We left feeling very frustrated at her lack of transparency. She also continually tried to sell us on Animal Kingdom despite us explaining to her we didn't in anyway want animal kingdom and that we barely ever visit that park. 
That being said can anyone answer my questions? 
Can we purchase a minimal amount of points from Disney directly and combine it with an outside resale deed? 
Is it worth it to buy from Disney directly and if so why? 
What happens if a natural disaster hits our home resort, are we responsible for the clean up? (Basically will we see that blowback in a raise of our annual fees?) 
Do they buy back points at current market value or at what we paid for them? 
Is it worth it to purchase a minimal amount and rent outside rather than buy? 
The rep mentioned that a lot of contracts had been sold through outside companies and once they were brought in front of Disney for approval it was denied and the people were losing their deposits, has anyone experienced this? 
Also, can you direct me to a competent, transparent, respected outside dealer of points? we are seeing a lot of different prices and offers and are not sure who to trust.


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## presley (Nov 28, 2016)

Katiemaylily said:


> Can we purchase a minimal amount of points from Disney directly and combine it with an outside resale deed?


Yes. You need to buy the same resort with the same use year to make it the easiest way to do this.


Katiemaylily said:


> Is it worth it to buy from Disney directly and if so why?


I say no because the value of the "perks" is minimal. You will get some discounts and will be able to use the points for hotel stays, cruises and some other things if you buy direct, but normally those things are less expensive if paid directly with cash vs. using DVC points to pay for those things. The exception is when they are selling a brand new resort. Often, the direct purchase price is about the same as the resales are. Since you are buying SSR, I would say there is no benefit to buying direct.


Katiemaylily said:


> What happens if a natural disaster hits our home resort, are we responsible for the clean up? (Basically will we see that blowback in a raise of our annual fees?)


That can happen. If you look at the history of the annual dues, you'll see a large jump at Hilton Head and I think Vero in the past due to hurricanes or something.


Katiemaylily said:


> Do they buy back points at current market value or at what we paid for them?


I've never heard of them doing that. If you list them for sale and have a buyer who is going to pay what Disney decides is not enough for their product, they will buy it from you at the price that the other buyer was going to buy it for. That is in the contact. It's called Right Of First Refusal.


Katiemaylily said:


> The rep mentioned that a lot of contracts had been sold through outside companies and once they were brought in front of Disney for approval it was denied and the people were losing their deposits, has anyone experienced this?


It is impossible to lose the deposit. It is like buying real estate. If the sale falls through, you get your money back. That is very standard with all timeshare resale purchases unless you buy from a crooked company.

Buy from a broker who specializes in the product. Here are some. I've done business with the first 2. All of these have very good reps.
http://www.dvc-resales.com/
https://www.resalesdvc.com/
http://www.dvcmagicresales.com/dvcmr/
http://dvcbyresale.com/

EDIT TO ADD: I am in the camp of renting rather than buying. If you rented 410 points every year from another owner at $14/point, in 10 years you would have matched the DVC list price without paying any closing fees or annual dues and no finance charges if for some reason you decided to finance the purchase (which is a baaad idea). Of course, the rental rates could change quite a bit over 10 years.


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## chalee94 (Nov 28, 2016)

Can we purchase a minimal amount of points from Disney directly and combine it with an outside resale deed?

Yes.  They would need to be titled the same and also have the same UY month.

Is it worth it to buy from Disney directly and if so why?

Not for SSR, no.

The only real benefit to buying direct is the annual pass discount - if you don't go often enough to buy annual passes, there is really no benefit at all to buying direct.

What happens if a natural disaster hits our home resort, are we responsible for the clean up? (Basically will we see that blowback in a raise of our annual fees?)

The resorts have insurance for major disasters but paying the deductible could still result in increases, yes.

Do they buy back points at current market value or at what we paid for them?

They do not buy back points.  At all.

(Historically, they used to offer to buy back BCV pts at around $50 per pt when the market prices were closer to $90 or so per pt.  But that was a decade or so ago...)

Is it worth it to purchase a minimal amount and rent outside rather than buy?

If you are committed to regular trips to wdw, it's better to buy what you plan to use.

The rep mentioned that a lot of contracts had been sold through outside companies and once they were brought in front of Disney for approval it was denied and the people were losing their deposits, has anyone experienced this?

I would not trust the Disney reps in general.  No, that is not true.  If you try to buy a resale and Disney takes it away with ROFR, you would get your deposit back and can try again (ROFR is mostly a hassle to try to convince you to pay extra for a direct contract.)

I bought in from these guys:

http://www.dvc-resales.com/


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## littlestar (Nov 28, 2016)

We own a combination of direct and resale contracts at SSR.  SSR has the lowest dues and is a good value resale.  All of our contracts are under the same membership number - meaning they are titled exactly alike and have the same use year.  We take advantage of the DVC annual pass discount so having a direct contract in our membership entitles us to that discount.  There is no guarantee Disney will continue the AP discount, though.  We bought our resale contracts from The Timeshare Store - they were great to work with.


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## Deb & Bill (Nov 29, 2016)

You can buy SSR points on the resale market for a lot less than $140 a point which is what you would be paying if you bought them direct from DVC.  You need to do a lot of research before you hand over all that money to Disney.  There are multiple places to find out more.  TUG is one place.  DISBoards.com is another.  DVCNews.com is one more.

What is your reason for wanting a Grand Villa all the time?  You may find you might like to have separate lodging and not stay in the same.  There is only one master bedroom in a Grand Villa.  If you and your sister both want a king sized bed, you'll want two separate villas. 

Disney will not buy back your points if you decide you don't want them anymore, especially at what they are selling points for at that time.  You'll have to sell them either through a company or yourself.  But your sale will go through Right of First Refusal where Disney has the opportunity to buy it back.  If you are the seller, you still pay your commission to the selling agent (if you used one) and you'll be paid your asking prices (what was stated in the contract).  If you are a buyer and Disney exercises ROFR, you lose the contract, you pay nothing and you get back your deposit.  A DVC salesperson (called guides by DVC) won't get a commission if you buy resale.  That's why they make up all sorts of tales about the woes of buying resale.  Most of them are lies to scare you.

As for natural disasters, Hilton Head Island just had a bunch of damage because of Hurricane Matthew.  DVC has decided to loan the resort several million dollars to make the necessary repairs.  Owners there will be charged a portion per point to pay DVC back for a series of years.  They could have done a one time special assessment, but chose to do it this way instead.


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## frank808 (Nov 30, 2016)

Deb & Bill said:


> As for natural disasters, Hilton Head Island just had a bunch of damage because of Hurricane Matthew.  DVC has decided to loan the resort several million dollars to make the necessary repairs.  Owners there will be charged a portion per point to pay DVC back for a series of years.  They could have done a one time special assessment, but chose to do it this way instead.



I believe it was not millions but the $750,000 deductible that has to be paid that the special assessment was for.  The hurricane insurance took care of most of the repairs but we as owners are on the hook for the deductible.  Which is usually 1 to 2 percentage points of the policy coverage amount.


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## Bailey#1 (Nov 30, 2016)

Resale is the way to go for you. But before you buy I suggest you go to www.disboards.com (which is a user group) and go the the DVC forum, then go to the "Purchasing DVC' section and then to its subsection "DVC Resources Center"  and read. 
Understand the terms "usage year", "Banking","Borrowing", " how points work", "expiration dates of the resorts", and see the point charts for each resort.

Right now the the price of SSR points on the resale market is going around $82-$86 a point. SSR has an expiration date of 2054.


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## AnnaS (Dec 23, 2016)

You have received lot's of great advice here.  I would just like to bring up the 3 BDR villa again.  Do you think you will be needing a 3BDR Villa for every trip?  Will you be taking a trip every year?  Will all of you be able to vacationing together all the time?  

As time passes, our lifestyles change, vacation time not always the same, families grow, or children become adults and might not always vacation, etc. etc. 

What your future plans are now, might not be the same in a few years.  You might be able to get away with a smaller contract - of course, the more you can afford, the better  for flexibility, space, etc.  (You can always have a few points transferred into your account when you need it and there is always the banking and borrowing option).  

Again, keep reading/researching.  I would look into resale and then buying a small contract direct with the same resort and UY (for any "perks" - which might/might not be worth it for you - just keep in mind and perks can go away any time - and they will most likely only be good for members who have their card). 

If you think you will need a 3 BDR every year for the next few years + - by all means purchase a contract with the number of points needed (plus a few extra for cushion).  

Good luck and happy searching!!


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## capjak (Dec 23, 2016)

Good Advice.  One thing I might due is buy resale and once you are an owner you can buy an add on direct of 25 points to give you the member perks of discount on annual passes if you go for more than 5 days to the parks in 12 months.


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## TAS1 (Jan 3, 2017)

As a side note, I would not look at a DVC purchase as an investment.  You are essentially prepaying yearly for vacations at Disney.  It is unlikely that you would see any ROI other than the memories you have year after year.  I bought in 1995 and am anxiously awaiting my last annual dues payment.


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## Videoguy75 (Jan 4, 2017)

AnnaS said:


> Do you think you will be needing a 3BDR Villa for every trip? Will you be taking a trip every year? Will all of you be able to vacationing together all the time?



We do 3 bedrooms at BWV all the time and have also done 3 Bds at BLT & AKV. Best vacations ever. We started years ago with one 3 Bd Grand Villa. As kids started marrying, we added studios, then 2 bedrooms. Now we always go with two 3 Bd Grand Villas, but will need to add a studio for our next trip. It is a wonderful way to travel and amazing accommodations. If you can afford the points, get them and enjoy!!!

We also enjoy Marriott 3 bedrooms, but they are nothing compared to the Disney ones.


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## AnnaS (Jan 6, 2017)

This is great you are always able to vacation together.  I have three kids - two married, one at home, one granddaughter and twins on the way!!!  We try to vacation all together (and DCL cruises) as often as possible but schedules/vacation don't always work out.  We have also had the parents of one of the daughter-in-laws come with us.  We cruised once with both daughter-in-laws and their parents so yes, they are the best times together and hoping to have many more.  We have gotten a combination of villas each time.

I would suggest you then buy resale the points you will need and buy a small 50 point contract through Disney - same resort and UY.  Again, not sure if buying a few direct are worth it to you.  The one "perk" you might find some significant savings is the AP but it's only for someone living in your household to qualify.

Good luck and again happy browsing/searching (we have 460 - there are times I have been tempted to add a few more but we have been good for many years now).

Keep us posted so we can congratulate you.


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## bendadin (Jan 12, 2017)

You might even be able to get a 25 point direct contract. That would be worth it. SSR resale runs pretty low. Maybe high $70s/low $80s. You just have to make yourself familiar with loaded vs stripped contracts, and how that affects cost per point.

Even though benefits are not guaranteed, I bought 7 AP last year. It saved me $200 each. At that rate it wouldn't take long to wash the expense of the direct contract.

I would follow this site to get a good feeling of prices: 

https://www.disneydvcresale.com/


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## Ty1on (Jan 12, 2017)

Translation of Sales Speak to English:  "I cannot legally answer that" means "That information could move you toward not buying from me, so I'm not giving it to you."  there is no law preventing her from telling you whether DVC will combine resale and retail.


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## icydog (Jan 21, 2017)

I'm not surprised that you didn't get answers from the guide. It's counterproductive for her to answer, because the answer to the question is--yes you can buy resale-- and yes you'll save a lot of money.

I would study how to buy a Resale contract and what constitutes a good contract before plunking down any amount of money. 

For instance, any contract that I buy is LOADED meaning it has BANKED points from the previous year equal, or nearly equal, to the contract's full point value.  Thereby giving you two years worth of points for one year's buyin price.

 When you buy a contract resale (or even from Disney) you pay per point. In my example the imaginary price per point is $100 per point, for a  300 point contract,  for any imaginary resort. The use year would be March in my imaginary example.

My ideal contract would be a have 300 BANKED points from March of 2016 and 300 REGULAR points from 2017. Thereby giving me a total of 600 points for 2017. 

The contract costs $30,000 for 300 points @ $100 per point --- BUT you're getting an extra 300 points for FREE --thereby reducing your cost to buy this imaginary contract to $50 per point


See it's easypeesy!


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## Lisa P (Jan 21, 2017)

icydog said:


> The contract costs $30,000 for 300 points @ $100 per point --- BUT you're getting an extra 300 points for FREE --thereby reducing your cost to buy this imaginary contract to $50 per point


Good idea.  However, if purchasing 300 points for $30,000 ($100 per point) and getting 300 one-time use points for free in a loaded contract, you are only saving 1 year's annual dues, perhaps $1,800 ($6 x 300 points), on those points.  Reducing the purchase price "to $50 per point" would mean a savings of $15,000.  Would be very nice but not possible.


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## ljmiii (Jan 22, 2017)

icydog said:


> For instance, any contract that I buy is LOADED meaning it has BANKED points from the previous year equal, or nearly equal, to the contract's full point value...My ideal contract would be a have 300 BANKED points from March of 2016 and 300 REGULAR points from 2017. Thereby giving me a total of 600 points for 2017.


From our what it's worth department, I note that I went the other way on my recent DVC resale purchase and found a contract that had been 'stripped' - all of this use years points were gone as were almost every point out of next use year. Since most people want to buy contracts that allow them to travel now-ish the price I was able to negotiate was very attractive.

But really what all this means is you need to 'bake in' the value of usable points into any contract you purchase whether you buy one 'loaded' or 'stripped'.


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## Berea1 (Jan 22, 2017)

ljmiii said:


> From our what it's worth department, I note that I went the other way on my recent DVC resale purchase and found a contract that had been 'stripped' - all of this use years points were gone as were almost every point out of next use year. Since most people want to buy contracts that allow them to travel now-ish the price I was able to negotiate was very attractive.
> 
> But really what all this means is you need to 'bake in' the value of usable points into any contract you purchase whether you buy one 'loaded' or 'stripped'.




A reminder that all of the Disney Units are right to use (RTU) with an original 50 year time limit.  Some of the Old Key West (OKW) units were extended but the original ones started in 1991, so only have 25 years left and, therefore, should cost the least.  I bought 230 points back in 1992 for $52.50 a point and sold them for a profit (at $63 per point) in 2006 when OKW joined iNTERVAL for the next 5 years and I could trade my Marriott's into Disney.  In 2011, Disney switched to RCI for five years, and just renewed for another 5 years so  II members still cannot trade into any Disney unit.  Patrick


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