# Why buy Worldmark?  Rent at this site



## PA-

Here's a site I just was made aware of where Wyndham is renting to the general  public.  That explains why inventory specials dried up.  Could these be Wyndham reservations utilizing "acquired" credits?  If so, the recent guideline change that the board implemented to stop credit abuse won't amount to a drop in the bucket, since they did not include Wyndham in that guideline.

http://greatpricedcondos.com/ac/index.html


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## Jya-Ning

It asks income level in that site, sounds like a developer's promotion site.

Jya-Ning


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## Bill4728

The resorts listed on the website are:

Angels Camp  
Big Bear  
Birch Bay 
Branson 
Fiji 
Galena 
Grand Lake  
Lake of the Ozarks  
Windsor 

These all ( except Fiji) have long slow season. It wouldn't surprise me if Wyndham was just trying to get some people into lots of empty rooms.


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## sfsailors

PA- said:


> Here's a site I just was made aware of where Wyndham is renting to the general  public.  That explains why inventory specials dried up.  Could these be Wyndham reservations utilizing "acquired" credits?  If so, the recent guideline change that the board implemented to stop credit abuse won't amount to a drop in the bucket, since they did not include Wyndham in that guideline.
> 
> http://greatpricedcondos.com/ac/index.html



I don't think you can rent these resorts. It's a website of Wyndham to sell new account to fresh meat.


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## PA-

Bill4728 said:


> The resorts listed on the website are:
> 
> Angels Camp
> Big Bear
> Birch Bay
> Branson
> Fiji
> Galena
> Grand Lake
> Lake of the Ozarks
> Windsor
> 
> These all ( except Fiji) have long slow season. It wouldn't surprise me if Wyndham was just trying to get some people into lots of empty rooms.



Yep, and that's what they're supposed to do.  They've always rented out excess.  This year, they've eliminated Inventory specials and bonus time at those resorts too.  we couldn't even get into Oklahoma this summer using credits.


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## LisaH

I agree with PA-. This is the first year WM is not offering Inventory Special at Windsor. I can't get a weekend there this month where we had been able to for the past three years.


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## kapish

Wyndham over-build at these resorts (Windsor, Angels Camp, Indio, St. George, for example,) pump all that credits into the WorldMark system, then rent out those units to the public...  ... without opening up these resorts for WorldMark owners...

WTF?


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## LLW

kapish said:


> Wyndham over-build at these resorts (Windsor, Angels Camp, Indio, St. George, for example,) pump all that credits into the WorldMark system, then rent out those units to the public...  ... without opening up these resorts for WorldMark owners...
> 
> WTF?



............meanwhile, new owners who have bought the newly created credits are fighting with existing owners for availability at the old coastal resorts.


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## LLW

LisaH said:


> I agree with PA-. This is the first year WM is not offering Inventory Special at Windsor. I can't get a weekend there this month where we had been able to for the past three years.



Birch Bay has been on Inventory Special for the fall/winter months as long as I have owned, since 2002. There are lots of availability, it is not even on midweek Inventory Special, but it is on the above-mentioned rental site and on sale on Expedia!


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## sfsailors

LLW said:


> ............meanwhile, new owners who have bought the newly created credits are fighting with existing owners for availability at the old coastal resorts.



Should we vote not accepting more resorts into the system ( if we can )?


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## spatenfloot

sfsailors said:


> Should we vote not accepting more resorts into the system ( if we can )?


Only if it is a desirable location/property and the credit values are not excessive.


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## cotraveller

spatenfloot said:


> Only if it is a desirable location/property and the credit values are not excessive.



Which of course is a very subjective thing.  One mans junk is another mans treasure.


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## larry_WM

kapish said:


> Wyndham over-build at these resorts (Windsor, Angels Camp, Indio, St. George, for example,) pump all that credits into the WorldMark system, then rent out those units to the public...  ... without opening up these resorts for WorldMark owners...
> 
> WTF?



what's the definition of over-build when they all booking at a certain level. The fact that you can't book them easily show that they are not over-built.


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> what's the definition of over-build when they all booking at a certain level. The fact that you can't book them easily show that they are not over-built.



No, that does NOT show they are not over-built.  Many of these resorts have been on constant Inventory Special, both mid-week and Week-End for years.  It shows that Wyndham is renting them to the general public.


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> No, that does NOT show they are not over-built.  Many of these resorts have been on constant Inventory Special, both mid-week and Week-End for years.  It shows that Wyndham is renting them to the general public.



Selling timeshares become harder and harder for developers. Wyndham is not renting them to the general public, they use this a a marketing tool to get new buyer. So, PA-[deleted] can you advise Wyndham how to sale a timeshare. As far as I know, this is a very common practice in TS industry. [deleted]. Remember, bonus is bonus, not a sure thing. I don't have any problem booking in these resorts with my credits. 
the bottom line is, Wyndham is not renting these resort to the general public, they rent to their potential customer. every non-owner want to stay in these resorts have to go through 90 minutes presentation. Stop posting misinformation !

[Stop being rude or your posts will continue to be edited. philemer, Moderator]


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## melschey

larry_WM said:


> Selling timeshares become harder and harder for developers. Wyndham is not renting them to the general public, they use this a a marketing tool to get new buyer. So, PA-[deleted] can you advise Wyndham how to sale a timeshare. As far as I know, this is a very common practice in TS industry. [deleted]. Remember, bonus is bonus, not a sure thing. I don't have any problem booking in these resorts with my credits.
> the bottom line is, Wyndham is not renting these resort to the general public, they rent to their potential customer. every non-owner want to stay in these resorts have to go through 90 minutes presentation. Stop posting misinformation !
> 
> [Stop being rude or your posts will continue to be edited. philemer, Moderator]



What bothers us is Wyndham is using inventory that is owned by WM the club, enventory not owned by Wyndham for sales purposes. We would like to know how they can take units owned by WM members and should be available for us to use with credits for sale promotions. 

I was offered 2 days at Levenworth this summer, when there were no unints available for club members to book with credits (forget about bonuss time), if I would brings a couple with me to a sales meeting. This is not right. If units are not going to be used by club members I might be inclined to go along with it, but Leavenworth in the summer, come on Are you going to tell me that no WM member would have wanted  these.


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## rnsnake

Well Larry_WM, you're wrong about WYN not renting to general public. My cousin that lives in California rented 4 nights at a WM resort and was never approached for a sales presentation. They were told when they rented said days, that the nights were open and that owners weren't booking them. What's up with that?
It seems that you have something against PA. I have read several threads here where you seem to make a negative comment to quoted posts from PA. 
What's the deal?  You're not from Colorado are you?


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## larry_WM

melschey said:


> What bothers us is Wyndham is using inventory that is owned by WM the club, enventory not owned by Wyndham for sales purposes. We would like to know how they can take units owned by WM members and should be available for us to use with credits for sale promotions.
> .



When Wyndham put the unit into the system and that units haven's sold, the credit still belong to Wyndham  and Wyndham will paid for the MF. Wyndham  will use these unsold credits available for Marketing purpose



melschey said:


> I was offered 2 days at Levenworth this summer, when there were no unints available for club members to book with credits (forget about bonuss time), if I would brings a couple with me to a sales meeting. This is not right. If units are not going to be used by club members I might be inclined to go along with it, but Leavenworth in the summer, come on Are you going to tell me that no WM member would have wanted  these.




 same idea as above


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## larry_WM

rnsnake said:


> Well Larry_WM, you're wrong about WYN not renting to general public. My cousin that lives in California rented 4 nights at a WM resort and was never approached for a sales presentation. They were told when they rented said days, that the nights were open and that owners weren't booking them. What's up with that?
> It seems that you have something against PA. I have read several threads here where you seem to make a negative comment to quoted posts from PA.
> What's the deal?  You're not from Colorado are you?



I don't believe it. You can say anything you want. Please advise me how to rent it. The deal is I like the status quo, any attempt to change is ridiculous to me
el loco gordo


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## LLW

larry_WM said:


> I don't believe it. You can say anything you want. Please advise me how to rent it. The deal is I like the status quo, any attempt to change is ridiculous to me
> el loco gordo



Get on Expedia. Put in Blaine, Washington for a hotel search. Put in some date in the near future. You will see Worldmark Birch Bay listed as "Birch Bay Condos" for rent (look at the pictures, the address, and the description). Some dates are available and some others may not be, just like a hotel. Birch Bay used to be available to owners in the winter months as an Inventory Special but not any more, because Wyndham is renting to the public.


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## larry_WM

LLW said:


> Get on Expedia. Put in Blaine, Washington for a hotel search. Put in some date in the near future. You will see Worldmark Birch Bay listed as "Birch Bay Condos" for rent (look at the pictures, the address, and the description). Some dates are available and some others may not be, just like a hotel. Birch Bay used to be available to owners in the winter months as an Inventory Special but not any more, because Wyndham is renting to the public.



I am not surprise to see that.  I saw that it's advertised in wmowners.com by some very active members there too. I even know one candidate of the BOD buy and sell WM accounts for profit. This is a free market country, everone try to make money here and there. Onething for sure that it's not a policy of Worldmark management to do this.


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## BocaBum99

Hey Larry.  You seem to be defending Wyndham.  Do you in any way work for them?

I do believe that Wyndham has excess, unsold inventory that they rent out.  It is true that all developers have such inventory and they use lots of venues to rent it out.

The question is whether or not they are renting owner inventory.  If they are, I just hope owners are having their maintenance fees reduced.


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## LLW

larry_WM said:


> Onething for sure that it's not a policy of Worldmark management to do this.



How would you know, unless you are Worldmark management?  And if you are, I would like to let you know that there will be a few Birch Bay units sitting empty tonight that you could have rented to owners as Inventory Specials. Bonus time does not cut it.


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## PA-

I don't think he's part of wyndham management, or he would understand the bylaws restrict how Wyndham can use their unsold inventory.   Regardless of how difficult it is to sell timeshares, Wyndham is not permitted by our bylaws to take our inventory (even using their unsold credits) for the profitable rental of our inventory.  

He could be from Colorado, that was one of my first thoughts.  He's making the same inaccurate implication that I buy/sell Worldmark accounts.  However, if it is our friendly detractor from CO, he's drastically changed his writing style.  I kind of doubt it's him.  Probably someone influenced by his editorials.


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## larry_WM

LLW said:


> How would you know, unless you are Worldmark management?  And if you are, I would like to let you know that there will be a few Birch Bay units sitting empty tonight that you could have rented to owners as Inventory Specials. Bonus time does not cut it.



That's a different story. Read the bylaws
Renting by the Club: If it is in the best interest of the Club and in compliance with local laws and restrictions, the Club may rent Units to non-owners provided owner demand for a resort/unit is reasonably predictable and owner reservations assured. All proceeds from such rentals shall accrue to the club.


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## larry_WM

BocaBum99 said:


> Hey Larry.  You seem to be defending Wyndham.  Do you in any way work for them?
> 
> .



No, I don't. I just don't like the ridiculous accusation and trouble-making of  hypocrites. For all the mess Wyndham gave to us, WM is still the best timeshare. The action of "By owners - for owners" gang even make the situation worser. I just don't like the way they rebel, I am a original owner buying from developer, i am not regret that fact. I'm just angry at the most knowlegable group taking the most advantages but whine the most loudest.


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I don't think he's part of wyndham management, or he would understand the bylaws restrict how Wyndham can use their unsold inventory.   Regardless of how difficult it is to sell timeshares, Wyndham is not permitted by our bylaws to take our inventory (even using their unsold credits) for the profitable rental of our inventory.
> 
> He could be from Colorado, that was one of my first thoughts.  He's making the same inaccurate implication that I buy/sell Worldmark accounts.  However, if it is our friendly detractor from CO, he's drastically changed his writing style.  I kind of doubt it's him.  Probably someone influenced by his editorials.



So you are the educated guy, let read bylaws again and straight to the fact.


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## cruisin

larry_WM said:


> No, I don't. I just don't like the ridiculous accusation and trouble-making of  hypocrites. For all the mess Wyndham gave to us, WM is still the best timeshare. The action of "By owners - for owners" gang even make the situation worser. I just don't like the way they rebel, I am a original owner buying from developer, i am not regret that fact. I'm just angry at the most knowlegable group taking the most advantages but whine the most loudest.



Are you sure that you do not work for wyndham? Wyndham devalues our memberships, steals equity from the owners. It is very hard to support the policy of theives. The phrase "Don't let the fox guard the henhouse" is over 400 years old. It doesn't take a rocket scientist...........


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## BocaBum99

larry_WM said:


> No, I don't. I just don't like the ridiculous accusation and trouble-making of  hypocrites. For all the mess Wyndham gave to us, WM is still the best timeshare. The action of "By owners - for owners" gang even make the situation worser. I just don't like the way they rebel, I am a original owner buying from developer, i am not regret that fact. I'm just angry at the most knowlegable group taking the most advantages but whine the most loudest.



There is a lot of truth to what you say.  Personally, I don't spend very much time on the wmowners site because at one time it was very negatively focused.  I think it has gotten better.

I do believe that that group is at the forefront of the timeshare industry with respect to fighting back against developer actions that harm owners.

Also, I totally agree with your assertion that WorldMark is and has been a great club.  I think that most wmowners would agree with that.

One of the questions I have always had was "why do timeshares always depreciate when they are based on real estate?  Well, after following the wmowners site for a while, I determined that it is clearly developer actions to create a differentiated product from resale that is the root cause of this depreciation.  Their business model requires them to sell units far above market value.  As a result they take these actions that hurt owners.  All developers do it.  wmowners focuses a disproportiate amount of their time on identifying, vocally discussing and combating  it.

So, I think its fine to dislike the wmowners site.  There are trying to defend owners rights, though.

Regarding being hypocritical.   That is probably a fair point.  The owners on wmowners know how to use the system far better than most owners.  So, they reap a far greater share of the rewards.  The only difference is that those activities are within the rules.  It's the same difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes.  When you avoid taxes, you are playing within the rules to avoid paying more tax than you need to pay.  When you evade taxes, you are purposefully trying to not pay taxes that you legitimately owe.  I believe most of what wmowners do is more like avoiding taxes than anything else.  But, the net result it the same.  The average owner gets less.


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## melschey

larry_WM said:


> That's a different story. Read the bylaws
> Renting by the Club: If it is in the best interest of the Club and in compliance with local laws and restrictions, the Club may rent Units to non-owners provided owner demand for a resort/unit is reasonably predictable and owner reservations assured. All proceeds from such rentals shall accrue to the club.


OK; How did Wyndham get units for sales purpose in Leavenwoth last summer when there were no units available to book with credits? PLEASE don't try to tell me that this did not negatively impact WM owners. It has always been hard to get into Leavenworth in the summer with out booking way ahead. It has always been hard anytime on the weekends. What they did last summer stinks to me, However I am sure to a TS salesman of a Wyndham employee it is just fine.


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## larry_WM

cruisin said:


> Are you sure that you do not work for wyndham? ...........


Do you think they would hire a uneducated guy like me?  If they do, I will work for them.


cruisin said:


> Wyndham devalues our memberships, steals equity from the owners.


It's a debatable opinion. It maybe true.


cruisin said:


> The phrase "Don't let the fox guard the henhouse" is over 400 years old. It doesn't take a rocket scientist...........


Here we go. The problem is you don't know who is the fox. I won't let a guy who is good at exploiting the system , a WM reseller,  advocating for me.


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## cruisin

[QUOTE= 

Originally Posted by cruisin  
Wyndham devalues our memberships, steals equity from the owners.


It's a debatable opinion. It maybe true.

----------------------------------------------------------------
And if it comes out that Wyndham is following the rules and law, I will support their right to do so. I for one would love to see the legal opinion that our BOD received, and will not show the members regarding many of these issues.


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## cruisin

Also not sure of the hypocrisy? I do not see people promoting breaking the rules/law. I think Boca's example of taxes is a very appropriate one.


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## larry_WM

cruisin said:


> Originally Posted by cruisin
> Wyndham devalues our memberships said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, they have hundred of lawyer in-house to advise them to get the most benefits inline with the law, nothing we can do about it. Timeshare is generally a bad idea, there is no perfect timeshare system. Go to ebay, you will see a lot of Ts selling for $1.00 even with the most reputable such as Mariott. When i buy a car poorly designed, I don't sue and  the car maker, but I hate the mechanic who criticize the design, try to modify it and break my car. If WM system sill work, don't fix it. I believe that with more and more
> frivolous lawsuits, which the "By owners - for owners" gang behind, our WM will sell on ebay for 1 cent/credit. Who want to buy a TS which have a special assessment few thousand dollar and a very high MF? we will go there if the gang keep fighting .
Click to expand...


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## larry_WM

cruisin said:


> Also not sure of the hypocrisy? I do not see people promoting breaking the rules/law. I think Boca's example of taxes is a very appropriate one.




Go to "By owners - for owners" to find out who are the top posters are and what activities they did. I don't call it illegal, it's just the opposite what they preached. Some statistics about that website.

There are 5100 registered members

about 30 have more than 1000 postings
129 have more than 100 postings
191 have more than 50 postings
248 have more than 30 postings
298 have more than 20 postings
430 have more than 10 postings

Try to go there post an unpopular opinion, you will get attack left and right and even a few nasty messages in your mail box.


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> cruisin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, they have hundred of lawyer in-house to advise them to get the most benefits inline with the law, nothing we can do about it. Timeshare is generally a bad idea, there is no perfect timeshare system. Go to ebay, you will see a lot of Ts selling for $1.00 even with the most reputable such as Mariott. When i buy a car poorly designed, I don't sue and  the car maker, but I hate the mechanic who criticize the design, try to modify it and break my car. If WM system sill work, don't fix it. I believe that with more and more
> frivolous lawsuits, which the "By owners - for owners" gang behind, our WM will sell on ebay for 1 cent/credit. Who want to buy a TS which have a special assessment few thousand dollar and a very high MF? we will go there if the gang keep fighting .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree that they are in-line with the law, or that there's "nothing we can do about it".   They are violating the by-laws, and there's plenty we can do about it.
> 
> Or we can take the attitude that it's still a good system and simply use it as is, then dump it after Wyndham sucks all our equity out of it.  That would be the simplest way for someone like myself, who understands the system well enough to get more value out of it than I should be able to.  I've chosen NOT to take this approach, as I believe the patient is worth saving.  However, I suppose there's nothing wrong with taking the other approach, as you propose.  Most people will choose your way, simply use it then dump it when it isn't working for them.  If you choose to knock people who are attempting to save the club, you're within your rights.
> 
> One of the unique things about Worldmark is the ability of the owners to chart their own course, independent of the developer.  That doesn't exist in most timeshares that are still under developement.  It's one of the key points made in the sales presentations.  Yet, when the owners try to do just that, they're branded as malcontents by our board of directors, as well as a SMALL handful of owners.  Curious.
> 
> Just one question, if you don't mind.  Why do you believe that I am a reseller of Worldmark accounts?  I'm not.  I know that there are a small group of owners who claim that to be the case.  Are you simply repeating what you've heard them say, or do you have your own reasons?
> 
> Finally, the value of Worldmark accounts has gone down significantly in the last 6 - 9 months (since TravelShare was announced).  If something isn't done, the value will be similar to Fairfield.  pennies on the dollar.  It's the job of our Board of Directors to preserve the equity in our club, which will help resale values.  Blaming the owners for driving down value or increasing costs is misguided, in my opinion.
Click to expand...


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> larry_WM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just one question, if you don't mind.  Why do you believe that I am a reseller of Worldmark accounts?  I'm not.  I know that there are a small group of owners who claim that to be the case.  Are you simply repeating what you've heard them say, or do you have your own reasons?
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> I dealt with you on the past. All the record is gone, but here is something left
> I saw you denied many times, on differents boards, but it's the fact well-known
> 
> 
> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=fullup*&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true
> For someone who is not familiar with PA-
> Scroll dow the list you will see some comments such as
> Great communication, wonderful seller of WorldMark credits, recommend highly.
> Excellent communication - worked hard to get us Worldmark Points. Thanks! +++
> Bought Worldmark credits of an honest and v ery helpful and pleasant experience
> I purchased Worldmark credits from this seller. Very prompt and helpful.
> 
> I know that you sold at least once 5000 NHK account for 15k . The fact that you always deny and tell a lot of thing not true show that you have no integrity to be the advocate for us. I have owned WM membership long before you and I remember a few years ago in this board asking a lot of questions exploring the resale opportunities. Don't tell me that you are losing money on Worldmark membership. I don't see anything wrong in buying and selling WM for profits. What I am sick at is the fact you twisting the truth and creating a lot of chaos for your own benefit. I bought more credits on resale for 80 cents/credit 10 years ago now the lowest you can get is 60 cents/credit. Big deal?
Click to expand...


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## PA-

I've never denied that I've bought and sold some worldmark accounts.  When I decided to run for the board of directors, Gene Hensley made the implication that I was doing it for financial gain.  I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board.  That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it.  I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.


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## PA-

In addition to financial loss from my decision to make sure that I don't exhibit even the appearance of a conflict of interest, I've had to suffer attacks against my personal integrity and charactor.  Hardly seems fair, but that's part of the deal I signed up for when I decided to try to make a difference.  So I have no problem with it.


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I've never denied that I've bought and sold some worldmark accounts.  When I decided to run for the board of directors, Gene Hensley made the implication that I was doing it for financial gain.  I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board.  That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it.  I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.



what about the question you just ask me in post#36 . It seem a denying to me


PA- said:


> Just one question, if you don't mind. Why do you believe that I am a reseller of Worldmark accounts? I'm not. I know that there are a small group of owners who claim that to be the case. Are you simply repeating what you've heard them say, or do you have your own reasons? .


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## PA-

Since deciding to run for the board, I'm no longer buying/selling accounts.  You implied that I am.  That's not an accurate or fair accusation.


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board.  That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it.  I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.



Hey, I heard that a drug-dealer sacrify his personal gain promise not to deal drug anymore to apply for the diectory position in DEA. I know, it take a crook to catch crooks !


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> PA- said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dealt with you on the past. .... I have owned WM membership long before you ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.  larry_wm registered for this board on Oct 27, 2007.  So you have me at a disadvantage.  Apparently, you registered a new userid for the purpose of attacking me and others.  What was wrong with your previous user ID?
Click to expand...


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> Since deciding to run for the board, I'm no longer buying/selling accounts.  You implied that I am.  That's not an accurate or fair accusation.



Sorry for my mistake. You are not a WM  reseller, You just  was a WM reseller !


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## cruisin

PA- said:


> I've never denied that I've bought and sold some worldmark accounts.  When I decided to run for the board of directors, Gene Hensley made the implication that I was doing it for financial gain.  I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board.  That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it.  I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.



So basisally, you gave up personal gain "$$$$$" knowing the odds of being elected were extremely remote, accepting personal attacks on your character.  Hmm... That sounds like taking action based upon the  conviction of  something  you believe in.

BRAVO


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> Sorry for my mistake. You are not a WM  reseller, You just  was a WM reseller !




Apology accepted, thank you.

Yes, I just was a WM reseller (on a very small scale).  Is that OK?  I never treated anybody unfairly, either the people I bought from or the people I sold to.  I'm on excellent terms with everybody I ever dealt with.


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## PA-

PA- said:


> larry_WM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.  larry_wm registered for this board on Oct 27, 2007.  So you have me at a disadvantage.  Apparently, you registered a new userid for the purpose of attacking me and others.  What was wrong with your previous user ID?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt this question will be answered honestly.  It seems those most vigorously attacking me are those that have a variety of screen names, and have conversations with themselves agreeing with each other.  Hard to know how to respond to that sort of behaviour.
Click to expand...


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> Hey, I heard that a drug-dealer sacrify his personal gain promise not to deal drug anymore to apply for the diectory position in DEA. I know, it take a crook to catch crooks !



I'm not quite sure how to respond to this either.  I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this to be as mean-spirited as it sounds.


----------



## larry_WM

PA- said:


> Apology accepted, thank you.
> 
> Yes, I just was a WM reseller (on a very small scale).  Is that OK?  I never treated anybody unfairly, either the people I bought from or the people I sold to.  I'm on excellent terms with everybody I ever dealt with.



Not sure about that. I see that you stop dealing with WM, but you still dealing with resale Timeshare. As a matter of fact you have been dealing and may hold a lot of Schooner Landing units which can be easily converted to WM credit with a handsome profit. I call it a conflict of interest. I don't think that you are in good position to advocate for the benefit of other WM owners.I am sure that you have a hidden agenda.


----------



## PA-

larry_WM said:


> Not sure about that. I see that you stop dealing with WM, but you still dealing with resale Timeshare. As a matter of fact you have been dealing and may hold a lot of Schooner Landing units which can be easily converted to WM credit with a handsome profit. I call it a conflict of interest. I don't think that you are in good position to advocate for the benefit of other WM owners.I am sure that you have a hidden agenda.




Well then, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I didn't think you'd answer the question about your previous screen name honestly, if at all.

By the way, ANY timeshare in the entire world can be converted to Worldmark credits via the Exchange Plus program.  Further, cash can be converted to worldmark credits.  Just something to keep in mind, in case anyone other than a Wyndham employee should have the audacity to run for the Worldmark board.


----------



## BocaBum99

First of all, these attacks by Larry against PA are completely out of bounds as far as I am concerned.  PA is a known quantity in the timeshare world.  I have personally known him for over 3 years.  He is a man of very high integrity.  I challenge anyone to provide any evidence that PA has done ANYTHING unthical.  You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Yet, a person who signs up for this board just yesterday is allowed to attack his character without even disclosing his own identity.

As far as I am concerned, everything that Larry has posted has lost all credibility and his agenda is clearly to somehow sully the reputation of a fine person.  He should be interrogated thoroughly by everyone on this board to flush out his true agenda.  It does not appear to be for the good of timesharing community.


----------



## LLW

BocaBum99 said:


> The owners on wmowners know how to use the system far better than most owners.  So, they reap a far greater share of the rewards.  The only difference is that those activities are within the rules.  It's the same difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes.  When you avoid taxes, you are playing within the rules to avoid paying more tax than you need to pay.  When you evade taxes, you are purposefully trying to not pay taxes that you legitimately owe.  I believe most of what wmowners do is more like avoiding taxes than anything else.  But, the net result it the same.  The average owner gets less.




Hey, that's a free ad for www.wmowners.com! Is that within TUG rules?  

The fact of the matter is, the average WM owner can get a lot more from their ownership if they would only spend a little bit of learning time on wmowners. We have newbie owners who just bought a year ago, read up on wmowners, and have enjoyed their WM a lot more than some who have been owners for years. The point is, the average owner can do exactly what most on wmowners do if they want to. If they don't, and let their points expire, for example, Wyndham just takes their share and rent more to the public.  The average owner does not get less just because some other owners have spent more time studying the Owner Education Handbook on the WM site, for example. Like every other owner, wmowners users have finite numbers of WM credits. They just use them better. If 2 families have the same household income, and one lives far better on that income than the other, you can't blame the first one, can you?


----------



## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I'm not quite sure how to respond to this either.  I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this to be as mean-spirited as it sounds.


I learn from my previous experience. I was gang attacked, my mail box was full of nasty messages. I am not as well-educated, and well-advocates as you. I am alone here. I was a happy owner. I don't work for Wyndham, I don't have any agenda. I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.


----------



## PA-

larry_WM said:


> I learn from my previous experience. I was gang attacked, my mail box was full of nasty messages. I am not as well-educated, and well-advocates as you. I am alone here. I was a happy owner. I don't work for Wyndham, I don't have any agenda. I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.




You learned poorly.  If you were ill-treated by others, you should turn the other cheek and stop harboring hatred, it's bad for you.  However, perhaps you couldn't be blamed for mistreating those you think mistreated you.  I can assure you I was NOT among them; I promise you none of your nasty emails were from me.  That's not how I operate.  Nothing you say will ever change the way I treat people.  I sympathize with you, and feel bad for you.

There's no reason you can't continue to be a happy owner.  And how do you know we're hypocrites?  Why don't you try calmly discussing the issues?  Asking us questions (whoever "us" is) and genuinely LISTENING to the answers and assuming that maybe, just maybe, we're answering honestly?  You won't get serious dialogue by flinging accusations at people.


----------



## larry_WM

BocaBum99 said:


> First of all, these attacks by Larry against PA are completely out of bounds as far as I am concerned.  PA is a known quantity in the timeshare world.  I have personally known him for over 3 years.  He is a man of very high integrity.  I challenge anyone to provide any evidence that PA has done ANYTHING unthical.  You won't find it because it doesn't exist.
> 
> Yet, a person who signs up for this board just yesterday is allowed to attack his character without even disclosing his own identity.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, everything that Larry has posted has lost all credibility and his agenda is clearly to somehow sully the reputation of a fine person.  He should be interrogated thoroughly by everyone on this board to flush out his true agenda.  It does not appear to be for the good of timesharing community.




What did I attack PA are completely out of bounds ? I just mention the fact that hehave been dealing with WM credit resale for a long time which he try to avoid to accept. how you perceive him is your own opinion. I just want to set the record straight.


----------



## PA-

larry_WM said:


> What did I attack PA are completely out of bounds ? I just mention the fact that hehave been dealing with WM credit resale for a long time which he try to avoid to accept. how you perceive him is your own opinion. I just want to set the record straight.



OK, I think you've made your point.  Anything else?


----------



## cruisin

larry_WM said:


> I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.




I think you are having a hard time convincing those that know him, that PA is not a man with integrity.  I too have dealt with PA in financial matters, and he was absolutely honest. What is your agenda, other than trying to slur his character? I am glad there are websites like wmowners that try to make a positive difference for owners with real action rather than just criticize everyone!


----------



## PerryM

I get a kick out of folks who seem to hold a person who knows how to run a business or buy and sell things as somehow unfit to run for an office.  We live in the greatest society that has ever existed and it’s based upon Capitalism.  Everyone does what’s best for their own interests and the resulting society is better off than anything that has come before us. 

If PA has bought and sold WM accounts I think that’s just a feather in his cap.  I can understand some folks might get upset with making a profit from the thing he might regulate – PA has decided to stop reselling accounts – but it’s completely optional and I would have no problem if he continued to resell so if he makes it onto the WM BOD.

I am not a proponent of consumer activism and have ignored the WM elections – WM, the Club is going to ALWAYS be joined at the hip with a developer.  We need them and they need us.  Has Wyndham/TrendWest/Cendant abused us – probably.  That abuse is felt with falling WM resale credit prices – it’s a very simple measure of how the owners feel.  Right now one must assume that some WM owners are not happy with the status quo and are selling their WM credits at fire sale prices.

Will a new WM BOD fix this?  My gut feeling tells me no.  Look for falling WM resale credits for years to come.  (Wyndham is not done with us yet)  It might be a great time to buy cheap WM credits and take advantage of new resorts that require much more WM credits to stay at.  Wyndham is not a stupid company and will easily out maneuver anything a few hundred WM owners throw at them - same with any lawsuits.


My advice to all WM owners is to learn how to maximize your WM usage and hope that the WM BOD won’t erode our usage too much.  Our job as consumers is to use WM to our advantage and that means out foxing other WM owners.  This may be a shock to many but you live in a capitalistic society and you need to play your part – do what’s best for your family’s vacation needs.

Larry_WM I think you are 100% off base – my personal opinion, you have yours.


----------



## easyrider

You all need to get away from this negativity and back to reality. I checked expedia and did find the wm for rent. I wonder how many other wm units are rented this way or if these are wm units and not owner units. Some resorts have both types of inventory, wm and other. Other could be owner or even another point system like vi. I find bonus time not available where I want to go most of the time and red season booked out 13 months in advance.

As far as anyone selling timeshares or any other legal activity for profit ,that would be their own business. I dont like the idea of wyndam employees being able to rent wm units without having to buy a membership. It seems that white collar wyndham employees are able to rent at wm resorts in other than red season making inventory disapear for wm owners. This may be one of the reason inventory specials and bonus time has dryed up.


----------



## SleepinIn

I've been "listening" to larry bash PA over having been a seller of WM accounts.  Hey larry, who is the biggest seller of WM credits.  Uh, that would be Wyndham.  So, if you are going to impugn the reputation of somebody that sells WM credits (or in the case of PA, somebody who sold WM credits in the past) then you'd better spread it around.  The two incumbents running have or do work for Wyndham, the largest seller of WM credits.

In case you haven't notices, Inventory Specials have all but dried up over the summer.  Historical data (check  your old Destinations magazines) will show that  in the past there were many more resorts on IS than this past summer.  And yes, check some of the links the others have posted, Wyndham is renting out OUR units to the detriment of OWNERS!


----------



## PA-

PerryM said:


> ....
> I am not a proponent of consumer activism ...



Just gotta stop you there, Perry.  This is not even remotely akin to consumer activism.  This is about defending our property rights.  We aren't interested in Wyndham, this is all about the representation of our Wordlmark Board of Directors.  

We own 97% of the credits.  The other 3% are owned by Wyndham and an extremely tiny percent of owners like Larry_wm who understand the abuse and lies of our board, yet choose to allow it to continue because they still get good use of the club.  The majority of owners are oblivious to the abuse.  Our goal is to inform them, and let them choose their course of action.

If this was about consumer activism, we'd be going after Wyndham, not the board.


----------



## PerryM

PA- said:


> Just gotta stop you there, Perry.  This is not even remotely akin to consumer activism.  This is about defending our property rights.  We aren't interested in Wyndham, this is all about the representation of our Wordlmark Board of Directors.
> 
> We own 97% of the credits.  The other 3% are owned by Wyndham and an extremely tiny percent of owners like Larry_wm who understand the abuse and lies of our board, yet choose to allow it to continue because they still get good use of the club.  The majority of owners are oblivious to the abuse.  Our goal is to inform them, and let them choose their course of action.
> 
> If this was about consumer activism, we'd be going after Wyndham, not the board.




I voted for the WM BOD - I did my part.

I'm lumping the lawsuits into this too - maybe I shouldn't but it seems that many WM owners believe in magic - a new board member or two and a few lawsuits will make all this better.  I don't believe that for a second.

Time will tell, the best barometer of the state of WM is those resale prices.  At some point they will bottom out - that's when WM has had a turn around or it just can't get any worse.  What will do this?  I haven't a clue.

Until then, be careful what we wish for - it could be worse than the status quo.

Me; I just want the rules frozen and learn how to use them to my advantage.  That's all I, as a consumer, can do.


----------



## larry_WM

SleepinIn said:


> In case you haven't notices, Inventory Specials have all but dried up over the summer.  Historical data (check  your old Destinations magazines) will show that  in the past there were many more resorts on IS than this past summer.  And yes, check some of the links the others have posted, Wyndham is renting out OUR units to the detriment of OWNERS!



There is no such "summer Inventory Specials " July and August always fully booked


----------



## larry_WM

PerryM said:


> I voted for the WM BOD - I did my part.
> 
> I'm lumping the lawsuits into this too - maybe I shouldn't but it seems that many WM owners believe in magic - a new board member or two and a few lawsuits will make all this better.  I don't believe that for a second.
> .


I agree, especially, we chose the wrong horse. Jim, or Rhonda is a better choice, but they are smart enough not to join the gang.



PerryM said:


> Time will tell, the best barometer of the state of WM is those resale prices.  At some point they will bottom out - that's when WM has had a turn around or it just can't get any worse.  What will do this?  I haven't a clue.
> .



It's a good time to buy more


PerryM said:


> Until then, be careful what we wish for - it could be worse than the status quo.
> 
> Me; I just want the rules frozen and learn how to use them to my advantage.  That's all I, as a consumer, can do.




here we go, Perry, I agree with you


----------



## PA-

larry_WM said:


> I agree, especially, we chose the wrong horse. Jim, or Rhonda is a better choice, but they are smart enough not to join the gang.
> 
> 
> 
> ....



You might be interested in the link below; Jim gave me all his proxies this year.

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13137


----------



## larry_WM

PA- said:


> You might be interested in the link below; Jim gave me all his proxies this year.
> 
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13137



I know that. He's smart because he know you never win, you will be burned.


----------



## melschey

larry_WM said:


> I know that. He's smart because he know you never win, you will be burned.



I am sorry to partially agree with you. I don't think PA will win, because the vote will be split between a couple qualified independent candidates and our BOD will use their proxies to vote for candidates of their liking. 

I also agree with Perry, it is very difficult to take on a large corporation such as Windham. 

I don't think now is the best time to buy, as Wydham is probably drive resale prices considerably lower.


----------



## larry_WM

melschey said:


> I am sorry to partially agree with you. I don't think PA will win, because the vote will be split between a couple qualified independent candidates and our BOD will use their proxies to vote for candidates of their liking. .



You are wrong. Read the bylaws again


melschey said:


> I also agree with Perry, it is very difficult to take on a large corporation such as Windham.
> .



Very true.


melschey said:


> I don't think now is the best time to buy, as Wydham is probably drive resale prices considerably lower.


It's hard to tell. Maybe, it will go lower. I will buy more. I agree with you that TravelShare will make it harder for old owner to book on bonus time, but I don't think I can do anything about it. If you can beat them, join them.


----------



## SleepinIn

larry_WM said:


> There is no such "summer Inventory Specials " July and August always fully booked



Look again.  

*June 2004*
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Branson
Cascade Lodge
Pinetop
Sundance
Windsor​
*June 2005*
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Branson
LOTO
Pinetop
Sundance
Windsor​
*June 2006*
Galena
Grand Lake
Pinetop
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Big Bear
Bison Ranch
Cascade Lodge
Windsor​
*June 2007*
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
New Orleans​

*July 2004*
Galena
Grand Lake
Bison Ranch
Branson
LOTO
Rancho Vistoso​
*July 2005*
Galena
Grand Lake
Bison Ranch
Rancho Vistoso​
*July 2006*
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso​

*July 2007*
Rancho Vistoso
Galena​

*August 2004*
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Bison Ranch
Branson
LOTO
Pinetop
Windsor​
*August 2005*
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Bison Ranch
Branson
Pinetop
Windsor​
*August 2006*
Bison Ranch
Branson
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
LOTO
Pinetop​
*August 2007*
New Orleans
Rancho Vistoso​
If you can't see a difference, you're blind.


----------



## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I've never denied that I've bought and sold some worldmark accounts.  When I decided to run for the board of directors, Gene Hensley made the implication that I was doing it for financial gain.  I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board.  That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it.  I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.



PA- lie all the time when someone mention his resale activity

read the posting #13 of this threading. He denied he is a reseller when Faye (roadsister) ask him

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28104


PA- said:


> I'm not aware of radical suggestions. Certainly, this can't be considered radical. An owner contacting other owners to recommend the management company not be allowed to oversee the management company seems pretty consistent with American, capitalistic, and free market ideals to me.
> 
> As for being a reseller, what makes you believe that? It isn't true.
> .



This was posted on July 12, 2006, 04:49 PM 

This give you a glimpse of his character !


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

larry_WM said:


> This give you a glimpse of his character !



Interesting comment.  Personally, I've found this thread to be far more revealing of your character.


----------



## PA-

larry_WM said:


> PA- lie all the time when someone mention his resale activity
> 
> read the posting #13 of this threading. He denied he is a reseller when Faye (roadsister) ask him
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28104
> 
> 
> This was posted on July 12, 2006, 04:49 PM
> 
> This give you a glimpse of his character !




Charley,

Faye has thrown that accusation out many times, and I guess she'll continue to do so using her various screen names, as though it's wrong to buy/sell timeshares.  I've answered the exact same way every single time.  It's something I did.  Once I decided to start running for the board, I discontinued selling Worldmark accounts, so there would be no question about my motives.  I've not purchased a single worldmark account since I first decided to run for the board, 3 years ago.  At what point do you feel I can claim not to be a worldmark reseller?  Do I need to wait 5 years?  10?  Forever?

On second thought, never mind.  It doesn't matter.  You may continue to make any reckless accusations you wish, using any screenname you wish.


----------



## larry_WM

PA- said:


> Charley,
> 
> Faye has thrown that accusation out many times, and I guess she'll continue to do so using her various screen names, as though it's wrong to buy/sell timeshares.  I've answered the exact same way every single time.  It's something I did.  Once I decided to start running for the board, I discontinued selling Worldmark accounts, so there would be no question about my motives.  I've not purchased a single worldmark account since I first decided to run for the board, 3 years ago.  At what point do you feel I can claim not to be a worldmark reseller?  Do I need to wait 5 years?  10?  Forever?
> 
> On second thought, never mind.  It doesn't matter.  You may continue to make any reckless accusations you wish, using any screenname you wish.




I am not Charley,
I don't care much you are a reseller or not. I am just get sick of the fact that that you always twist the truth. You look like a professional politician to me.
After a while  most of the record are cleared, but with a good detective job, we still find something
Look at the thread in your friend BBS
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
 It shows that you was still dealing WM account until Nov 2006, maybe later or even now, (we have no proof yet)


PA- said:


> Posted: Tue 06 Feb 2007 9:09 am
> By Nick
> A NHK 5,000 Sept w/5,000 sold on eBay for $12,000 in November. The seller was "fullup" from San Antonio.


----------



## SleepinIn

I don't understand why somebody has to keep throwing unsubstantiated accusations at PA.  It doesn't make sense.  I remember reading on some thread that PA sold his own NHK account a while back.  I know he sells other timeshares, but I and many others believe that he no longer sells WM accounts.

For the sake of argument, let's say somebody is selling WM accounts and running for the WM BOD.  Is that a problem?

Uh, Peggy Fry work for the biggest seller, as does Dave Herrick.  Gene H and John H are both retired from the developer, the world's largest seller of WM accounts.  PA has nothing to gain by being on the BOD.  You can't say the same for those whose income comes from the developer in the form of paychecks and/or stock dividends.  The better the Wyndham bottom line, the greater their income.


----------



## larry_WM

SleepinIn said:


> I don't understand why somebody has to keep throwing unsubstantiated accusations at PA.  It doesn't make sense.  I remember reading on some thread that PA sold his own NHK account a while back.  I know he sells other timeshares, but I and many others believe that he no longer sells WM accounts.
> 
> For the sake of argument, let's say somebody is selling WM accounts and running for the WM BOD.  Is that a problem?
> 
> Uh, Peggy Fry work for the biggest seller, as does Dave Herrick.  Gene H and John H are both retired from the developer, the world's largest seller of WM accounts.  PA has nothing to gain by being on the BOD.  You can't say the same for those whose income comes from the developer in the form of paychecks and/or stock dividends.  The better the Wyndham bottom line, the greater their income.




Read the above post carefully. Few people care much the fact he is a reseller or not. The fact that he avoid and twist the truth makes people sick. He said he stopped dealing with WM credits three years ago, but if you follow the link,
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
there is an evident shows that he still sell WM account on Nov 2006. Can you see that?


----------



## SleepinIn

larry_WM said:


> Read the above post carefully. Few people care much the fact he is a reseller or not. The fact that he avoid and twist the truth makes people sick. He said he stopped dealing with WM credits three years ago, but if you follow the link,
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
> there is an evident shows that he still sell WM account on Nov 2006. Can you see that?



This is where he sold his OWN, very own personal NHK account.  Why not?  I have a few friends that own a couple of accounts and use them for their personal use.  If they sold one after using it for several years I wouldn't consider them to be a "reseller."  

Just get off it.  He sold one account last year.  He didn't buy and resell accounts.  That is what a "reseller" is, by definition.

Just keep throwing garbage and hope it sticks.  I agree with what T_R_Oglodyte said about your character being revealed.

Oh, and maybe you can answer my question:  do you see any difference in the IS from past years to this year?


----------



## BocaBum99

larry_WM said:


> Read the above post carefully. Few people care much the fact he is a reseller or not. The fact that he avoid and twist the truth makes people sick. He said he stopped dealing with WM credits three years ago, but if you follow the link,
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
> there is an evident shows that he still sell WM account on Nov 2006. Can you see that?



The only thing making people sick are your attacks on PA.  

The good news is that you are pretty much alone or in the very small minority.  Anyone reading this thread can tell that.  And, the more you post, the stronger PA looks.


----------



## BocaBum99

We've heard a lot from Larry.

Is there anyone else on this message board that feels the same way about PA?

I'd like to know if there is anyone out there who supports Larry's views.


----------



## easyrider

This thread is a non issue to most wm owners. Its an arguement between a few so called wm experts that wont get resoved here. The real issue for me is whats happening to bonus time, inventory specials and wn employees getting to use up wm inventory without a membership.


----------



## PA-

easysider said:


> This thread is a non issue to most wm owners. Its an arguement between a few so called wm experts that wont get resoved here. The real issue for me is whats happening to bonus time, inventory specials and wn employees getting to use up wm inventory without a membership.




Agreed.  This is exactly the kind of issue central to my campaign.  However, I'm up against our Board of Directors, who is violating bylaws to keep from having a fair election, and answer to people who drum up lies and false accusations under various screen names.


----------



## melschey

larry_WM said:


> You are wrong. Read the bylaws again
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Where am I wrong?
> 
> You don't think the vote will be split between the independent candidates;
> 
> or you don't think the BOD will use their proxies the way Wyndham wants them to, as they already have in the last two elections.


----------



## PA-

BocaBum99 said:


> We've heard a lot from Larry.
> 
> Is there anyone else on this message board that feels the same way about PA?
> 
> I'd like to know if there is anyone out there who supports Larry's views.



I bet rallen and sfsailors feels EXACTLY the same way as larry_wm.  In fact, there's several other user ids that will be in total agreement on every point.


----------



## melschey

larry_WM said:


> You are wrong. Read the bylaws again
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Are you going to answer my question? Just where am I wrong?
> 
> And by the way what do the bylaws have to do with independent candidates splitting the   vote, or that the BOD using their proxies to ensure that only candidates of Wyndham’s choosing get elected.
> 
> I am not saying it is not legal for them to do it, however until a couple of years ago they never did. They told us they wanted the proxies only to meet the quorum requirements and they always voted the proxies in the same percentage as the votes submitted by WM owners. They no longer do that, they now use their proxies to influence the outcome of the vote. I am not saying they don’t have the legal right to do it, I am saying I don’t like it and they will do it again this year.


----------



## melschey

larry_WM said:


> I am not Charley,
> I don't care much you are a reseller or not. I am just get sick of the fact that that you always twist the truth. )



Frankly I am getting tired of you twisting the truth and telling half-truths, also you also seem to answer only questions you want to. 

You have previously told me I was wrong and to read the governing documents. 

I asked you twice to tell me where I was wrong and you haven’t answered me, instead you just keep attacking PA.  You have lost all credibility in my opinion.


----------



## larry_WM

SleepinIn said:


> Oh, and maybe you can answer my question:  do you see any difference in the IS from past years to this year?



Yes, there is a difference. Hereis my humble opinion

In the old day when Timeshare using fix-week fix-Unit system, eveyone have one week per year reserved, everyone get exactly the week they bought. Sometime there is a owner can't use the week, the week is put back to the system, the HOA let the other owner use it for a fee and  call it a bonus time. If you ever own a fix-week fix-unit system you will see how rarely you can get a bonus week. Then come to a new floating-week, floating-unit system. A lot of owner try to reserve summer or holiday weeks, some early bird get the slower can't.Ony somelousy blue or white week left that no owner want to reserve. Some reserve anyway but can't show up, some reserve and space bank to a exchange compnay which later, for some , they can'teven  exchange to nowhere to meet their need. Some when can't reserve the week they need and don't know the exchange scenario exist or don't  have an account with an exhange company or get sick of the exchange . forfeit it and the weeks is put back to the system. Thus other member again have a chance to pick up a few day or the whole weeks as a bonus. This bonus time happen in this case  Again in this case there is more chance to get a bonus time. This system seem not fair in term of reservation because some get none and some get a holiday or summer week with some bonus weeks too. It give the owner some flexibility trade off with some unequal share of usage.But in this case bonus still rare in white or blue week only Now come to a point system , with multiple resort with different quality and a complicated way of booking that the unexperienced user barely comprehend tto satisfy his or her own need. In theory if it's fairly distributed, you bought 8000 credit account, you get a 1 week 1 bedroom reserved for a week or two long weekend a year, you bought 10000 credit you get 1 week two bedrooms reserved. But life is not fair, There are very small fraction of holiday or summer week at hot resort that eveyone want to get in and of course only some small savvy owner get it, very few owner want to use the credit to book for a whole week of Marcch or October at not so popular resort like Angel camp. Because of this situation, there are bonus and special inventory release for owner to increase the occupancy. In the old day, there are few owner access to computers and know how to fully utilize the system( to give you example in 2001, there are around 100,000 but only 1000 owner log on WM forum), they only call the Vacation planer when their day off come close, of course they can't book the week  at the resort they want, they end up not using it. This is why there are many bonus time and inventory time available and also in the last few years the developer put a lot of more resort inside the system that the new owner and older can't absorfb, that another reason there was more bonus and Special inventory available. What whapen now? A lot of don't-know-how-to use WM accounts appear on resale market being bought by savvy user, thus reduce the bonus time and increase the competition of good week at quality resort. I bought my 6000 credits  account 10 years ago and I used to book 30-40 a year easily in quality resorts, in the year 2002 I booked a record total 48 days . I found that it's harder to book with small account so I add some more credits to my account. Last year I havea 30,000 but I utilized only 25 days of booking, The bottomline is when you buy in 8000 credit for WM you only expect to have 1 week usage guarantee if you book far in advance, it's not guarantee in any resort either and bonus is just bonus, not a guarantee. The savvy fold in Wmowners.com very greedy , read what they boast in the posting, with a tiny account they have visited a lot of resorts and they still complain. There are a lot of unfortunate folk out there bought in WM but never have a chance to use it. Time is changing, more owners know how to use it, more owners know how to exploit the system, then it's not a surprise to see bonus time dwindle, not a surprise to find it harder to book a coast resort in summer even by credit. Thanks to yourself, the folks at Wmowners.com, have trained 5000 owners how to fully utilize their account. These 5000 owners are a big competition for a few summer weeks period, small number of units at coast resort. Blame on yourself,don't blame on Wyndham, don't blame on Travelshares. I don't think the new Travelshare folks can use the funtime to grasp your summer weekend at coast resort, you fellow savvy owners do. AskJimP ar PerryP, I don't think they have any problem book in any resort any week they want. Learn how to outfox your friend, don't complain


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## larry_WM

melschey said:


> larry_WM said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong. Read the bylaws again
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Are you going to answer my question? Just where am I wrong?
> 
> And by the way what do the bylaws have to do with independent candidates splitting the   vote, or that the BOD using their proxies to ensure that only candidates of Wyndham’s choosing get elected.
> 
> I am not saying it is not legal for them to do it, however until a couple of years ago they never did. They told us they wanted the proxies only to meet the quorum requirements and they always voted the proxies in the same percentage as the votes submitted by WM owners. They no longer do that, they now use their proxies to influence the outcome of the vote. I am not saying they don’t have the legal right to do it, I am saying I don’t like it and they will do it again this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Sorry, I don't know how to explain. If you want the right answer create a thread and some expert will answer you
Click to expand...


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## larry_WM

melschey said:


> Frankly I am getting tired of you twisting the truth and telling half-truths, also you also seem to answer only questions you want to.
> 
> You have previously told me I was wrong and to read the governing documents.
> 
> I asked you twice to tell me where I was wrong and you haven’t answered me, instead you just keep attacking PA.  You have lost all credibility in my opinion.


How can i lost my credibility when In your opinion and all others poster here have no credibility to me in the beginning. If you read all of evident and you still don't find the truth in my statement about PA then, it's useless to convince you. Your minds and other here have ben closed !


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## larry_WM

PA- said:


> I bet rallen and sfsailors feels EXACTLY the same way as larry_wm.  In fact, there's several other user ids that will be in total agreement on every point.




Of course a lot of people here do, but they don't bother to say it out loud


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## T_R_Oglodyte

larry_WM said:


> How can i lost my credibility when In your opinion and all others poster here have no credibility to me in the beginning. If you read all of evident and you still don't find the truth in my statement about PA then, it's useless to convince you. Your minds and other here have ben closed !



See - here's the situation, Larry.  (I'll assume that's your name.)

You have admitted that the name you are using now is an alternate identity. You created that identity for the purpose of posting on a couple of these Wyndham threads, and you are using that pseudo-identity to engage in character assassination.  You knew what you are doing was likely to stir reaction, and you created that identity to avoid facing the consequences of your actions.

Put simply, you are a sniveling coward.  You want to stake your position, but you lack the moral fiber to stand and take the heat for advancing your position.

Whether your allegations about Phil are true or not, that conclusion remains. You are bereft of credibility.

****

And that is what causes your posts about Phil to collapse.  Not that what you might be true or false.  That's immaterial.

They fail because you simply have no platform from which to make any kind of statement about the propriety or impropriety of any other person's behavior.

***

If you really want your allegations to have credibility, you need to come out from behind your pseudonymous cloak and establish a reputation.  Until you do that, every time you make an allegation, all you do is further smear yourself.

But you don't seem to get that.  You seem utterly perplexed that folks here don't fall into lockstep with you. You don't get it that your very behavior undercuts exactly what you are trying to accomplish.


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## PerryM

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> See - here's the situation, Larry.  (I'll assume that's your name.)
> 
> You have admitted that the name you are using now is an alternate identity. You created that identity for the purpose of posting on a couple of these Wyndham threads, and you are using that pseudo-identity to engage in character assassination.  You knew what you are doing was likely to stir reaction, and you created that identity to avoid facing the consequences of your actions.
> 
> Put simply, you are a sniveling coward.  You want to stake your position, but you lack the moral fiber to stand and take the heat for advancing your position.
> 
> Whether your allegations about Phil are true or not, that conclusion remains. You are bereft of credibility.
> 
> ****
> 
> And that is what causes your posts about Phil to collapse.  Not that what you might be true or false.  That's immaterial.
> 
> They fail because you simply have no platform from which to make any kind of statement about the propriety or impropriety of any other person's behavior.
> 
> ***
> 
> If you really want your allegations to have credibility, you need to come out from behind your pseudonymous cloak and establish a reputation.  Until you do that, every time you make an allegation, all you do is further smear yourself.
> 
> But you don't seem to get that.  You seem utterly perplexed that folks here don't fall into lockstep with you. You don't get it that your very behavior undercuts exactly what you are trying to accomplish.




Well said...


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## PA-

larry_WM said:


> Of course a lot of people here do, but they don't bother to say it out loud



Perhaps a lot of people do, but I'm only positive that 2 people do; you and Roadsister.  And both for the same reason.  To be able to attack those that oppose Wyndham's handling of Worldmark, and make it appear that there are more people with your beliefs than there truly are.

I can tell you one thing for sure; I don't create alternate user IDs on ANY forum.  

One last thing, though I've answered this to your alternative ID before; When I found myself in need of some cash last year, I split off part of the only account that I still own and sold the non-housekeeping portion of it.  For 3 years I've not purchased a worldmark account, and that was the first time I've split off part of my personal account in over 3 years.  It's difficult to be a reseller when you don't purchase inventory.  My remaining account is less than 10,000 credits, so there isn't much selling I can do without buying more accounts.  I'm not stating this so much for your benefit; I agree with TROG and Perry about you, so I don't waste a second worrying about how you feel about me.  I'm putting this out there for everyone to see that reads similar false accusations, implications, innuendos about my charactor etc. from cotraveller, roadsister and her many alternate IDS and others who don't know me but have decided from afar that my integrity and charactor don't meet their standards.


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## Dave M

*With my moderator hat on.....

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY! This applies to all who post in this thread.*

The Posting Rules for this BBS (link on the above blue bar) require that all posts be worded courteously. From the *"Be Courteous"* section of the rules :





> All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behaviour lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offences could get you banned from the bbs. Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behaviour or bad manners.


Accusing someone of having multiple identities (for which there is no evidence - such as identical I.P. addresses) or calling someone a hypocrite, a liar or a coward are all examples from this thread of statements that violate the Posting Rules.

Consider this a stern warning for all those who have violated the rules in this thread and to any others who choose to chime in. And heed this part of the quoted text: *Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offences could get you banned from the bbs.*


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