# 1,000,000 Wyndham Point Ebay Auction & Public Math



## timetard (May 26, 2018)

Hey, I am new to this site.  I fell for the Wyndham sales pitch recently and got the regular deal of 126K points (+2 years Temporary Silver VIP) for ~$20K plus ~$70/mo MF which comes to out to around ~$30/1K points.  I am following the sage advice of the posters here and rescinding the contract.

However, there is currently a 1,000,000 Wyndham Point Auction on eBay that seems interesting to me.  The annual MF ($4719.96) comes out to $4.72/1K points.  The purchase price doesn't really matter to me.

My question is what should I look out for when buying a re-sale?  What is the catch here?

Link to Auction:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-NA...sh=item4d73d3772e:g:qnEAAOSwbE9a4pxf#viTabs_0

Notes about me:  Live within about a 45-60 minute drive to National Harbor


----------



## Railman83 (May 26, 2018)

If you can afford the cost it is an awesome deal.   I paid $800 for 154 last year and it was a good desl


----------



## Dave Landry (May 26, 2018)

timetard said:


> Hey, I am new to this site.  I fell for the Wyndham sales pitch recently and got the regular deal of 126K points (+2 years Temporary Silver VIP) for ~$20K plus ~$70/mo MF which comes to out to around ~$30/1K points.  I am following the sage advice of the posters here and rescinding the contract.
> 
> However, there is currently a 1,000,000 Wyndham Point Auction on eBay that seems interesting to me.  The annual MF ($4719.96) comes out to $4.72/1K points.  The purchase price doesn't really matter to me.
> 
> ...




It looks like an ok deal. Looks like an additional 850 added to winning bid for closing  plus no points until 2019 meaning you will be paying maintenance fees starting whatever month the transfer takes place without receiving any points.  The amount of time it's been averaging lately that would be around 3 months. If you are ok with that and confident that the monthly maintenance fee won't become too much of a burden to your budget then you should be happy with it.


----------



## wjappraise (May 26, 2018)

There is no “catch” to it.  It is pretty much the secondary market price for Wyndham points.   

The downside is the size of the contract.  Will you actually use one million points every year?   Are you prepared to pay $400 to $500 each and every month for maintenance fees?   If so, this is a great contract for you.  

However, don’t make the same mistake twice - buying something without researching it.  Is this where you want your home resort?  Do you want ARP somewhere else that might be a popular resort?   
While this is a good deal, it’s not unheard of.  If you pass on this while learning the ropes, another similar deal will be available.


----------



## Roger830 (May 26, 2018)

National Harbor is one of the best to own. 

The problem is the closing, Mine took about six months because Maryland requires that the paperwork be walked to the clerk. This usually means the closing company works with a local company. I had a problem when nobody followed up, so I went online and saw that the deed had been registered about a month prior.

It might not be a bad idea to inquire if the seller is familiar with the process.


----------



## tschwa2 (May 26, 2018)

Keep in mind you will have no VIP status, which means you will get 2 free guest certs and every other one will cost $100.  You don't get free hk or transaction credits so if you plan on using it for multiple short stays you will have additional fees for those and of course no discounts or upgrades with resale purchase.


----------



## whitewater (May 26, 2018)

10,000 for a million points is high IMHO.  I'm in for half of that and "own" 1.3.


----------



## ronparise (May 26, 2018)

whitewater said:


> 10,000 for a million points is high IMHO.  I'm in for half of that and "own" 1.3.


that you got a great deal dosent make this a bad deal

Heres how I look at it:  assume a 10 year ownership  $11000 (purchase price and closing) = $1100/year 

$1100+ $5000 mf = $6100 annual cost /million points = $6.1 / 1000 points


----------



## am1 (May 27, 2018)

ronparise said:


> that you got a great deal dosent make this a bad deal
> 
> Heres how I look at it:  assume a 10 year ownership  $11000 (purchase price and closing) = $1100/year
> 
> $1100+ $5000 mf = $6100 annual cost /million points = $6.1 / 1000 points



Need to factor in the delay in being able to use the points as well the cost of capital.  10 years ago I choose a % but do not remember.  I had a pretty kickass formula.  As it turned out there was no need to account for the el cid contracts termination dates.  Flip side is if current years points are available and its part way through the year then that bonus opportunity needs to be positively factored in even if a the monthly fees need to be repaid. 

Mostly likely you should not buy it as it is very soon and 1 million points is a lot for most people.  Your situation may vary.


----------



## ronparise (May 27, 2018)

am1 said:


> Need to factor in the delay in being able to use the points as well the cost of capital.  10 years ago I choose a % but do not remember.  I had a pretty kickass formula.  As it turned out there was no need to account for the el cid contracts termination dates.  Flip side is if current years points are available and its part way through the year then that bonus opportunity needs to be positively factored in even if a the monthly fees need to be repaid.
> 
> Mostly likely you should not buy it as it is very soon and 1 million points is a lot for most people.  Your situation may vary.


 

You can analyze this stuff to death... And you cant compare whats available to some ideal, you have to compare it to whats available at the time  If you take the position that there might be something better and cheaper available next week, you will never own anything

Dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good


----------



## Avislo (May 27, 2018)

Also against renting units for where you want to go.  If studios or one bedrooms meet the needs, than rentals every year could be a viable option.


----------



## timetard (May 27, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Also against renting units for where you want to go.  If studios or one bedrooms meet the needs, than rentals every year could be a viable option.


I apologize for my lack of understanding here.  What do you mean by, "against renting units for where you want to go"?  Will my options on where I can stay be severely limited by purchasing a re-sale?  The "salesweasel" said I will be limited to 40 properties if I do a re-sale instead of developer contract.

Thank you for your comment.


----------



## timetard (May 27, 2018)

Perfect is the enemy of the good...I love it!  Thank you for your comment.


----------



## timetard (May 27, 2018)

tschwa2 said:


> Keep in mind you will have no VIP status, which means you will get 2 free guest certs and every other one will cost $100.  You don't get free hk or transaction credits so if you plan on using it for multiple short stays you will have additional fees for those and of course no discounts or upgrades with resale purchase.



I was tracking on the no VIP status.  Do you mind elaborating on HK and transaction credits?  I have no idea what those are.  Probably not going to do multiple short stays.  I get a decent number of days off per year so we like to get away and to explore a new area.  I asked this in another reply, but do you know if re-sale severely limits when and where you can use the points?  Thank you for your comment.


----------



## Dave Landry (May 27, 2018)

timetard said:


> I was tracking on the no VIP status.  Do you mind elaborating on HK and transaction credits?  I have no idea what those are.  Probably not going to do multiple short stays.  I get a decent number of days off per year so we like to get away and to explore a new area.  I asked this in another reply, but do you know if re-sale severely limits when and where you can use the points?  Thank you for your comment.


You get 1 transaction credit for every 77000 points and after using them it cost 19 online or 39 on the phone. You get 1 housekeeping credit for every 1000 points and larger size rooms charge more credits however if you aren't doing short stays you shouldn't reunion out. If you do more can be purchased


----------



## timetard (May 27, 2018)

wjappraise said:


> There is no “catch” to it.  It is pretty much the secondary market price for Wyndham points.
> 
> The downside is the size of the contract.  Will you actually use one million points every year?   Are you prepared to pay $400 to $500 each and every month for maintenance fees?   If so, this is a great contract for you.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the advice.  I am already shelling out around $5K for travel, but that is all inclusive of transportation and lodging.  I don't think I will be able to use any of these 1 million points to offset the transportation cost unfortunately.

Although the developer pricing at Wyndham wasn't for me, I think that I would prefer to be with Wyndham over others.  What is ARP?  I'd love to have a more expansive conversation with you if you have time.


----------



## Dave Landry (May 27, 2018)

Advanced Reservation Priority.  At your home resort you can book 13 months to 10 months  in advance. Any other properties can be booked 10 months or less in advance.


----------



## timetard (May 27, 2018)

Dave Landry said:


> Advanced Reservation Priority.  At your home resort you can book 13 months to 10 months  in advance. Any other properties can be booked 10 months or less in advance.


Thank you Dave.  You are a time share genius!


----------



## Dave Landry (May 27, 2018)

timetard said:


> Thank you Dave.  You are a time share genius!


Not exactly!  I was fortunate enough to find this group and learn from the wise members before purchasing myself. I try to share what I learned as a way to say thank you and it also helps me to remember things. There are many complexities within Wyndham and many members on here who know all or most of them. I only have learned the basics.


----------



## wjappraise (May 27, 2018)

timetard said:


> Thank you for the advice.  I am already shelling out around $5K for travel, but that is all inclusive of transportation and lodging.  I don't think I will be able to use any of these 1 million points to offset the transportation cost unfortunately.
> 
> Although the developer pricing at Wyndham wasn't for me, I think that I would prefer to be with Wyndham over others.  What is ARP?  I'd love to have a more expansive conversation with you if you have time.



You’re on the right track. You’re expanding your knowledge base.  And moving with caution.  
1.Read the sticky notes for Wyndham on this site. 
2. Download and read the current Wyndham member manual, and the amendments sent in March of 2017.  They outline the terms, definitions, and ground rules.  
3. Determine if you’d like to stay at a resort that is hard to book during peak times.  If so, that’s a good place to buy as home resort (resale of course).  Maintenance fees may be higher but that’s the cost of ability to book 13 months prior.  
4. If you’re not likely to stay at hard to book resort, then purchase resort with low maintenance fees (you are interested in one). 
5. Determine how many points you’ll want based on reading points charts in the member manual.  
6. If unsure, wait.  Rent a few rooms.  Find resorts you like and room configurations.  
7. Keep asking questions.  
8. If you want private conversations or a phone call, “start a conversation” with a member. 
9. There are one or two posters on this blog who simply cannot be trusted to provide reliable and accurate data.  Learn to ignore their posts.


----------



## ronparise (May 27, 2018)

timetard said:


> I apologize for my lack of understanding here.  What do you mean by, "against renting units for where you want to go"?  Will my options on where I can stay be severely limited by purchasing a re-sale?  The "salesweasel" said I will be limited to 40 properties if I do a re-sale instead of developer contract.
> 
> Thank you for your comment.




you are limited to the same resorts as every other owner


----------



## chapjim (May 27, 2018)

ronparise said:


> you are limited to the same resorts as every other owner



Or, said another way, you have access to the same resorts as every owner.


----------



## am1 (May 27, 2018)

am1 said:


> Need to factor in the delay in being able to use the points as well the cost of capital.  10 years ago I choose a % but do not remember.  I had a pretty kickass formula.  As it turned out there was no need to account for the el cid contracts termination dates.  Flip side is if current years points are available and its part way through the year then that bonus opportunity needs to be positively factored in even if a the monthly fees need to be repaid.
> 
> Mostly likely you should not buy it as it is very soon and 1 million points is a lot for most people.  Your situation may vary.



Right that is why I had a limit.  A few small things affected it, seller arp and a priority for larger contracts.  Early on I passed on a 6 million point las vegas contract.  No money but a few months later would have been nice but never saw one that large again.


----------



## tschwa2 (May 27, 2018)

Another option and it will cost you a little more upfront is to rescind what you have and ask about a Discovery package.  Usually you pay around $3000-4000 and get around 400,000 points with either silver or gold VIP attached and the points are good for either 12, 18, or 24 months depending on the package.  You do have to attend at least one more sales presentation.  If you say yes during one of those they credit you what you paid for the Discovery package.  Still don't recommend buying direct but the package will let you try out the system and locations to see if it meets your travel needs and to give you an idea about how many points your really need per year.  In all likelihood the same types of deals on ebay or other secondary market places will be the same as they are now.  The deals from the developer will also likely be the same.


----------



## kaljor (May 28, 2018)

Dave Landry said:


> Advanced Reservation Priority.  At your home resort you can book 13 months to 10 months  in advance. Any other properties can be booked 10 months or less in advance.



The key thing for a new buyer to understand about this is as Ron has often said, "at 10 months out, points are points". No one has an extra advantage.

So if you don't have a wish list that includes a hard to get booking every year, then 10 months out still allows  lot of nice choices.  What it doesn't allow is what we call "event weeks", such as Bike Week, or Mardi Gras.   It also may not allow weeks that are not event weeks but are always popular such as Newport in the summer, Fort Lauderdale area in winter and probably a lot more I'm not up to speed on.


----------



## timetard (May 28, 2018)

chapjim said:


> Or, said another way, you have access to the same resorts as every owner.


Do you know how many resorts that may be?  I keep reading around 40-50 resorts for CWA (Club Wyndham Plus?) domestically, but will I have access to all the others like Club Wyndham Pass, Affilitiate, and Associate Locations?


----------



## Avislo (May 28, 2018)

timetard said:


> Do you know how many resorts that may be?  I keep reading around 40-50 resorts for CWA (Club Wyndham Plus?) domestically, but will I have access to all the others like Club Wyndham Pass, Affilitiate, and Associate Locations?



Where do you read that it is to be 40-50 resorts for CWA (Club Wyndham Plus?) resorts domestically?


----------



## bbodb1 (May 28, 2018)

FWIW: the auction ended and the highest bid was $5,150 but (apparently) that did not meet the seller's minimum asking price (if I am reading the eBay page correctly where it notes 'reserve not met').  
The structure of auctions on eBay (allowing yet obscuring minimum required sale prices above the starting bid) should have more transparency.


----------

