# Does DVC really hold its value?



## wilmetted (Dec 11, 2021)

Hi everyone - I recently became interested in possibly owning at a DVC resort. I've heard for many years that Disney Resorts really hold their value. I happened to go to ROFR.net and searched Disney and found many sales for under $500 passing ROFR. Am I missing something here? It seems strange to me that they could sell for such low prices and pass ROFR.


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## ocdb8r (Dec 11, 2021)

wilmetted said:


> Hi everyone - I recently became interested in possibly owning at a DVC resort. I've heard for many years that Disney Resorts really hold their value. I happened to go to ROFR.net and searched Disney and found many sales for under $500 passing ROFR. Am I missing something here? It seems strange to me that they could sell for such low prices and pass ROFR.



...those listings are the price PER POINT (which is generally how DVC sales are quoted given you can own almost any variable number of points).  There are some listings that list the total price, but then you need to dig in to see what the per point price was.

In short, yes, Disney has historically held it's value (and even increased in value for people who purchased long ago or held long-term).  Nothing is forever though; Disney has recently starting adding some restrictions on resales (e.g. resales are not able to access the newest resort "Riviera" - only the resorts built before then AND Riviera resales will be restricted to booking Riviera alone).  It hasn't had much of an impact on resales thus far...but I would never count on long term value holding (especially as DVC is also a limited time right to use with the expiration date for early resorts starting to approach).


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## Limace (Dec 11, 2021)

I’ve never heard of such a thing. Disboards has a great thread where people post what is passing ROFR or not-check there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Finsadbel (Dec 11, 2021)

Some are listing full passing price and others are listing price per point.

EDIT- took too long for phone to update so I didn’t see someone else had already answered.


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## RX8 (Dec 11, 2021)

Not just hold their value but buy it right and see it increase in value. I purchased VGC (Grand Californian)) in 2018 for $155 per point and could sell it easily for $200. Could probably get more than that. Of course, this is still a timeshare so it could end up at $0 so I am not counting my windfall.


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## kanerf (Dec 11, 2021)

I was lucky enough to purchase points on several contracts at under $100 a point.  All of these are well north of $100 a point today and could easily be sold.


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## Janann (Dec 11, 2021)

I bought Saratoga Springs resale for $99/point in 2018, and the current price is somewhere around $130/point.  If I sold right now I would turn a profit, even after considering the closing costs.

If you search online there are lots of stories of people who bought for very low prices years ago, and could profitably sell today.

(Just to clarify...I'm not including the maintenance fees in my calculation; the calculation is based on acquisition cost and sale expenses.)


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## tschwa2 (Dec 11, 2021)

As long as DVC continues to exercise ROFR regularly than points will retain value.  They have cut a lot of benefits from resale owners.  My guess is if they drop ROFR by as much as 50%, within 2 years the resale value would fall to that level.  In the short term there would be current owners who have the benefits already looking to supplement their points with some cheaper ones.  The hard to get into resorts might be able to retail value above the ROFR even if  it is dropped significantly but certainly not across the board.


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## bizaro86 (Dec 11, 2021)

Janann said:


> (Just to clarify...I'm not including the maintenance fees in my calculation; the calculation is based on acquisition cost and sale expenses.)



Which is 100% reasonable, because DVC points have always had rental value well in excess of their MF - so you could have earned a profit by renting them along the way as well, if the value you got from using them one year didn't exceed MF.

That said, just because that is what happened in the past doesn't mean that is what will happen in the future. They're adding plenty of new supply, and like everything DVC points price on supply and demand. I think VGC in particular will feel the new supply from the tower at the Disneyland hotel. While VGC is a better location, thats also a big expansion in comparable supply coming online.

 Eventually the expirations will start to bite on resale prices as well - the earliest ones will be 20 years out in under 3 weeks. Maybe that's still long enough that it doesn't hit prices yet, but I have a hard time believing when you get to 5-10 years that people will be paying $100-150/point. That will obviously depend on what Disney does at expiration. I'd expect an offer to renew but I'd also expect that to be expensive (another $140 for 40 more years or something like that).


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 11, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> Which is 100% reasonable, because DVC points have always had rental value well in excess of their MF - so you could have earned a profit by renting them along the way as well, if the value you got from using them one year didn't exceed MF.
> 
> That said, just because that is what happened in the past doesn't mean that is what will happen in the future. They're adding plenty of new supply, and like everything DVC points price on supply and demand. I think VGC in particular will feel the new supply from the tower at the Disneyland hotel. While VGC is a better location, thats also a big expansion in comparable supply coming online.
> 
> Eventually the expirations will start to bite on resale prices as well - the earliest ones will be 20 years out in under 3 weeks. Maybe that's still long enough that it doesn't hit prices yet, but I have a hard time believing when you get to 5-10 years that people will be paying $100-150/point. That will obviously depend on what Disney does at expiration. I'd expect an offer to renew but I'd also expect that to be expensive (another $140 for 40 more years or something like that).


Yes, I agree.  My OKW will expire in 2042.  I don't care for myself, but our daugther is on the deed with us, and she will want to renew.  

If prices go back down (doubtful), I would like to buy more Disney.  But I am happy with my 500 points, 250 at SSR, 250 at OKW.  We paid between $50-60 per point for them.  OKW was less than SSR by about $10 per point at the time, probably due to the upcoming expiration.  We bought about 12-14 years ago.  There is real value in renting them.  I use go-koala.com to rent but book the nights for lesser-expensive times of year and list the dates myself.


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## littlestar (Dec 11, 2021)

Be careful on what you buy with DVC.  The new Riviera resort has resale restrictions - resale owners can only stay at Riviera.  I would look at the DVC resorts that fall under the old rules where resale can book the other DVC’s at the 7 month window like Saratoga, Old Key West (2057 end date), Copper Creek, Polynesian, Animal Kingdom, etc.

All the DVC’s are RTU (right to use) and have an end date.  We own at two DVC resorts (Beach Club bought around 2003 direct from Disney for around $80 per point) and Saratoga bought for around $100 per point direct from Disney.  So far the contracts have held their value but the clock is ticking on the years left (especially our Beach Club ownership which expires in 2042).  But an end date is probably a good thing as we age.

Our first DVC contract was bought in 2002 at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge (called Boulder Ridge now) for $75 a point direct from Disney.  We sold those points long ago.


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## wilmetted (Dec 11, 2021)

This is so much clearer. I was worried I'd purchase and then value would drop to almost $0 
Thanks to everyone


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## Deb & Bill (Dec 11, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, I agree.  My OKW will expire in 2042.  I don't care for myself, but our daugther is on the deed with us, and she will want to renew.
> 
> If prices go back down (doubtful), I would like to buy more Disney.  But I am happy with my 500 points, 250 at SSR, 250 at OKW.  We paid between $50-60 per point for them.  OKW was less than SSR by about $10 per point at the time, probably due to the upcoming expiration.  We bought about 12-14 years ago.  There is real value in renting them.  I use go-koala.com to rent but book the nights for lesser-expensive times of year and list the dates myself.


I doubt they will offer a renewal process.  Just close it down, fix it up and resell.  As DVC sells OKW points, they extend them to 2057, but if you didn't purchase the extension when they offered, you won't be able to extend to 2057 at OKW.  I doubt they will ever offer contract extension to the other resorts that expire in 2042 since the OKW extension was such a disaster.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 11, 2021)

Deb & Bill said:


> I doubt they will offer a renewal process.  Just close it down, fix it up and resell.  As DVC sells OKW points, they extend them to 2057, but if you didn't purchase the extension when they offered, you won't be able to extend to 2057 at OKW.  I doubt they will ever offer contract extension to the other resorts that expire in 2042 since the OKW extension was such a disaster.


I will wait for the price to drop again and will buy more.  The economy is on a downturn.  I remember when Steamboat Bill, a TUG member here, bought a lot of points from Disney direct for a great price, which included this year's and next year's fees.  It was actually almost as cheap as buying resale.  He paid somewhere between $80-85 per point.  I would buy if they drop it to $120 per point direct, not before.  No reason to buy anything.  

My resale points have the same benefits as resale because I bought before DVC devalued it. We added our two sons so they could inherit the points and so they can get discounted AP's.  Our renewal was $800 for the Sorcerer's pass, which is so much more than we used to pay, but more trips to Disney are planned for that extra high renewal rate.  

BTW, I was never offered the extension for OKW as a resale buyer.


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## nomoretslt (Dec 12, 2021)

As of today, it absolutely holds its value.
1997...purchased 150 points at Boardwalk Villas for $62 per point.  Plus they credited me for my stay that week in a one bedroom....I don’t recall how much...but probably close to $1,500.  Could now sell for at least $135 pp.  and that’s after enjoying for over 20 years.  Expiration date is 2042, so expect price to drop soon.

2004...purchased 130 points at Saratoga Springs Resort for $95 pp.  direct and received 2 annual passes for one year.  It was not a good purchase....in fact we never stayed there but used those points until 2019 to stay in almost every other resort in WDW and also two trips to Aulani.  The resale value was terrible for years but started coming back to life. We sold in 2019 for $102 pp and put the money towards our Riviera purchase.

2008...purchased 170 points at Bay Lake Tower direct for $109 pp. and received a weeks stay at Saratoga Springs (the only time we stayed there).  Could probably get at least $160 pp.  expiration date us 2054 so value will hold a bit longer.

2010 and 2011...purchased 50 point Bay Lake Tower contracts on resale for $102 and $95...could get at least $160 pp.

2011... purchased 50 point wilderness lodge contract on resale for $75 pp and sold in 2017 for $106 pp (new name is Boulder Ridge...lame!!!).  Put that money towards another Boardwalk contract. 

2011...purchased 50 point Boardwalk contract on resale for $74 pp and sold in 2019 for $151 pp (also used the money towards our Riviera purchase).

2017...purchased 200 point Boardwalk contract on resale for $90 pp.  could sell for $135 pp.

2019... purchased 2 Riviera contracts of 100 points each (200 total, but can sell each 100 point contract separately if I need to).  $170 pp.   No freebies this time like our Boardwalk and Saratoga purchases.  But got an “incentive” for buying a larger amount of points.  Right now it is going for less than $150 pp for larger contracts on the resale market and I think about $196 direct for buying 100 points.  $204 I think for smaller contracts.  Have enjoyed 3 stays of 5 to 6 nights there and it is an absolutely beautiful resort. Expiration is 2062 I think.

I am done buying and selling.  I have 3 of the best resorts for location.  I hope I live to see my Boardwalk points expire (I’ll be 85).  Bay Lake and Riviera are already co-deeded with our kids.  They can do what they want with them.  They were all bought with cash or short term loans (6 months low or no interest)

My dues/fees all told come to around $5,000.  

What I love about DVC is I’m not locked in to a particular week or particular type room.  I can bank some or all of my points to the next year for a longer vacation.  I can borrow also if I run out of points (although they had to put borrowing restrictions in place because of cancellations due to COVID and there were just too many points in the system).  Plus all my resale points are grandfathered in so are not affected by new Disney rules.

Of course this can change at any time.  There is much uncertainty about so many things.  I’ve not regretted any of my DVC purchases....In 1997 $60 pp was considered a lot of money.  I think the resale market peaked around August/September.  I can see the prices have been slowly dropping.


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## heathpack (Dec 13, 2021)

I bought my DVC Villas at Grand Californian resale at $88/point ten years ago.  Now I could likely sell for $288/point without too much trouble.

Yes, it holds its resale value.  And then some!

Eventually it will start to depreciate, since the contract expires in 2060.  But we have a little while on that yet.


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## elaine (Dec 13, 2021)

I’m not in the same class as prior great deals. But for “average Jane” dvc resale purchases-saw it, wanted it, bought it…Bought vwl for $85 in 2007, sold $93 2015 to buy larger akv contract at $80 in 2015. Sold for $106 (during covid-thinking done with dvc), re-evaluated and rebought (after resale pricing uptick-good strategy-huh?) at $125 a year later.
Fairly confident I can sell for at least $125+10% (to cover selling fees) in the future.  Even if pricing ticked down 10-20%, imho I’m still ahead after 2 years vs renting points.
When I sell, I’ll strip the contract and transfer to my other small dvc contract to get 2 more years of points to use after the sale. That gives me additional value-as stripped contracts only sell for a marginally lower price. 
I’d only buy dvc 2054 or longer with lots of time to sell. I’ll sell when at least 25+ years left.


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## TheHolleys87 (Dec 14, 2021)

elaine said:


> When I sell, I’ll strip the contract and transfer to my other small dvc contract


Do you have two memberships, i.e., is your small contract a different UY or titled differently from the one you would sell? Transfers are between memberships, not contracts. I don’t want others who aren’t familiar with DVC to get the wrong idea about how to strip a contract before selling it. If the DVC owner has only one membership, the only way to strip the contract is to make reservations with it and complete those reservations before the closing date of the sale.


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## elaine (Dec 14, 2021)

TheHolleys87 said:


> Do you have two memberships, i.e., is your small contract a different UY or titled differently from the one you would sell


yes. I could not get same UY for small HHI contract--so it's a separate membership. One of the few (only) benefits to having a different UY! I'll transfer both current and the follow year's points and can still bank both years if transferred before banking deadline. Wish I'd done that before prior sale!


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## montygz (Dec 18, 2021)

Disney holds its value, but remember, for most people a Disney visit also means buying park tickets, eating park meals, buying merchandise and the like. Those things increase in cost every year and aren't cheap.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 19, 2021)

montygz said:


> Disney holds its value, but remember, for most people a Disney visit also means buying park tickets, eating park meals, buying merchandise and the like. Those things increase in cost every year and aren't cheap.



lol I just bought 50 points just to use their pools in the summer. I would never waste that much on a hotel room if I was just going to be in a park most of the day.


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## nomoretslt (Dec 19, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> lol I just bought 50 points just to use their pools in the summer. I would never waste that much on a hotel room if I was just going to be in a park most of the day.


Do you plan on spending one night at a resort once a week  to use the pools?  I don’t quite understand your plan.  50 points will get 5 nights at the cheapest studio.  Not the whole summer.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 19, 2021)

nomoretslt said:


> Do you plan on spending one night at a resort once a week  to use the pools?  I don’t quite understand your plan.  50 points will get 5 nights at the cheapest studio.  Not the whole summer.



1 night in a studio in whatever is available at the 7 month mark. I live an hour away. I just want 3 trips a year in June/July when I have off work. I can always book a 1 bedroom suite at Wyndham's Cypress Palms for under $60 a night Sun-Fri all summer long if I want to visit the parks but am too lazy to do the hour drive there and back from my house. My kid is prime Disney age (6) and I will probably have one more kid so I figured 7.8k for 50 SSR points isn't that expensive since I don't have to pay interest on that small amount of points. I bought off of DVC resale market and put 2k on my 0% intro APR card and am paying cash for the remaining 5.8k at $141/point + dues and closing.

Wyndham and Marriott are better systems to own in if you plan on spending a lot of time inside a theme park. Disney is just too expensive. I spent more money on my 50 DVC points than I did on my Marriott and Wyndham resale combined. I'd rather stay in a Bonnet Creek 1200 sq foot 1 bedroom Presidential Reserve unit on floors 16-19 over an OKW studio (they're the same price per night btw). I just am looking at mostly 1 night at AKV, Beach Club, Boardwalk, Poly, WL and GF. My Marriott also trades into OKW and SSR pretty easily for 2/3 the price of using SSR points.


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## nomoretslt (Dec 19, 2021)

Getting Animal Kingdom should be easy for one night (and a real point saver if you get standard view)  Same with Polynesian.....there is nothing BUT studios there and being on the monorail is a plus.  Grand Floridian can be tough, but maybe not for just one night if you utilize the waitlist.  Bay Lake Tower standard view availability will pop up sometimes.  Easy walk to Magic Kingdom.  The pool at Beach Club is really popular...you may be able to snag a night there.  Boardwalk Villas standard view is hard to come by as it is the best bargain for a near park resort.  Waitlist and stalk.
You can park at the resort and check in as early as you want and use the facilities ...although people have been waiting until after 4:00 to get their rooms.  Not enough experienced staff.  Check out is 11 am but you can use the resorts facilities until midnight.  I’m sure you already knew all of this. 
We have around 850 points now between 3 resorts.  We are definitely spoiled and mostly like being in the Disney bubble.  Although the constant price increases for tickets and food and this new nonsense of the Genie + and paid Lightening Lane is thoroughly annoying....
Since it is mostly just the two of us most trips we are up and out early for the parks and back to the resort for lunch, beers and pool time.  Then back to a park in the evening.  Maybe.  We avoid Disney Springs and mostly cook or order food from outside the bubble.  We like our space and get a one bedroom.
Your kid would probably love Animal Kingdom Lodge.  There’s something about seeing the animals that is just so cool.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 19, 2021)

nomoretslt said:


> Getting Animal Kingdom should be easy for one night (and a real point saver if you get standard view)  Same with Polynesian.....there is nothing BUT studios there and being on the monorail is a plus.  Grand Floridian can be tough, but maybe not for just one night if you utilize the waitlist.  Bay Lake Tower standard view availability will pop up sometimes.  Easy walk to Magic Kingdom.  The pool at Beach Club is really popular...you may be able to snag a night there.  Boardwalk Villas standard view is hard to come by as it is the best bargain for a near park resort.  Waitlist and stalk.
> You can park at the resort and check in as early as you want and use the facilities ...although people have been waiting until after 4:00 to get their rooms.  Not enough experienced staff.  Check out is 11 am but you can use the resorts facilities until midnight.  I’m sure you already knew all of this.
> We have around 850 points now between 3 resorts.  We are definitely spoiled and mostly like being in the Disney bubble.  Although the constant price increases for tickets and food and this new nonsense of the Genie + and paid Lightening Lane is thoroughly annoying....
> Since it is mostly just the two of us most trips we are up and out early for the parks and back to the resort for lunch, beers and pool time.  Then back to a park in the evening.  Maybe.  We avoid Disney Springs and mostly cook or order food from outside the bubble.  We like our space and get a one bedroom.
> Your kid would probably love Animal Kingdom Lodge.  There’s something about seeing the animals that is just so cool.


Ive been to every resort before and use the amenities all the time (except the pools). I always watch the MK fireworks from either the hill at the poly or the stairs at contemporary at a higher floor. Single night availability isn’t hard to do if you book it the minute it opens to everyone.

Wyndham Clearwater is a resort that everyone complains about never having availability, but I always can book the remaining two night inventory when it opens up at the 90 day mark. I go 1-2 times a year and never book right when the inventory opens. I even got Dec 27-29 in a presidential reserve unit. Most DVC owners aren’t local and can’t make use of 1 night inventory like I can.


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## nomoretslt (Dec 19, 2021)

Okay now I am really confused.  You said you “just bought 50 points” so I was assuming you’ve never actually stayed at a DVC resort except OKW  and SSR?  you just kind of resort hop while staying off property?  By amenities I mean things like the community hall and the gym and the resort parking lot.  
Yes there are lots of places to see the fireworks.  I’ve been across the skyway connecting BLT and Contemporary since 2010 and just discovered the viewing area with seats on the Contemporary side.
Someone gave me a timeshare that was 10 minutes from Animal Kingdom.  It was a 2 bedroom duplex.  Kept it for 3 years and had the opportunity to give it back to Diamond....I hated it there and my husband never went and had no desire to go (I would take his mom and sister).  Was happy to get rid of that $1,000/year ‘free’ timeshare.  Now if it had been Bonnett Creek or Sheraton Vistana, that would have been a different story.
Wishing you nothing but happy trips.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 19, 2021)

nomoretslt said:


> Okay now I am really confused.  You said you “just bought 50 points” so I was assuming you’ve never actually stayed at a DVC resort except OKW  and SSR?  you just kind of resort hop while staying off property?  By amenities I mean things like the community hall and the gym and the resort parking lot.
> Yes there are lots of places to see the fireworks.  I’ve been across the skyway connecting BLT and Contemporary since 2010 and just discovered the viewing area with seats on the Contemporary side.
> Someone gave me a timeshare that was 10 minutes from Animal Kingdom.  It was a 2 bedroom duplex.  Kept it for 3 years and had the opportunity to give it back to Diamond....I hated it there and my husband never went and had no desire to go (I would take his mom and sister).  Was happy to get rid of that $1,000/year ‘free’ timeshare.  Now if it had been Bonnett Creek or Sheraton Vistana, that would have been a different story.
> Wishing you nothing but happy trips.



I always use the deluxe resorts mid-day to relax at between park hopping. There's no rule against it. You just can't swim in the pools (for obvious reasons). I've lounged at AKV a few hours because I love going to Sanaa for lunch after visiting Animal Kingdom. Kidani village has a really good lounging area above Sanaa that gives good view of the animals. I like to eat at Sanaa, then let my belly settle there for an hour before hopping to another park. You just show the guard your dining reservation and they let you right in.

I love beaches and cream at the Beach Club, but have never swam in the pool. I will usually relax there or at the boardwalk in between Epcot and HS. I used to do HS in the AM and keep my car at HS, then take the boat over and back (before the Skyliner). Poly and GF are good to relax at when you're hopping from Epcot to MK because their stops are after the TTC. I just park my car at the MK lot when I do Epcot and MK in 1 day. So yes, I know most of the deluxe resorts without ever actually paying to stay there.

Also, Diamond is a trash company. You couldn't pay me $1,000 to take a week there. However, the presidential reserve units at Bonnet Creek are nicer than most DVC rooms. Half the rooms have an Epcot fireworks view from the 16th-19th floor. The renovated SSR 1 bedrooms are definetely a downgrade from the 1 bedroom PR units at Bonnet Creek and cost twice as much.

The only value DVC has for me is for booking 1 night and having access to the resort for a 2 day staycation since I can go to Disney whenever I feel like it.


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## Dean (Dec 20, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> lol I just bought 50 points just to use their pools in the summer. I would never waste that much on a hotel room if I was just going to be in a park most of the day.


I've seen quite a few people over the years who own points and use them at times or routinely just to get access to the pools, free parking, as a respite from the parks during the day and for the dining plans.  Some stay a night here or there, some use them just during the day.  1 night gets you 2 days access to all but the room itself.


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## cbyrne1174 (Dec 20, 2021)

Dean said:


> I've seen quite a few people over the years who own points and use them at times or routinely just to get access to the pools, free parking, as a respite from the parks during the day and for the dining plans.  Some stay a night here or there, some use them just during the day.  1 night gets you 2 days access to all but the room itself.



or for when you need a place to recover from a food coma during food and wine.


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## Dean (Dec 20, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> or for when you need a place to recover from a food coma during food and wine.


You sure it's food?


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## Deb & Bill (Dec 26, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...BTW, I was never offered the extension for OKW as a resale buyer.


The original owner was probably offered the extension and declined.  So it's one per contract.  Unless you bought your resale long before they offered the extension.


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## Twohsieh (Jul 20, 2022)

RX8 said:


> Not just hold their value but buy it right and see it increase in value. I purchased VGC (Grand Californian)) in 2018 for $155 per point and could sell it easily for $200. Could probably get more than that. Of course, this is still a timeshare so it could end up at $0 so I am not counting my windfall.


I bought 3 VGC contracts in 2010 for $99/point (after incentives) and first year of double points. I could sell one of my contracts today for the price I paid for all three of them. I’m not planning to sell any of my contracts but I’m glad to know their holding their value plus some.

Also, I purchased a subsidized AUL contract in late 2020 for $100/point. Current AUL contracts are selling $25-$45 more per point now.


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## noreenkate (Jul 20, 2022)

I am a huge DVC cheerleader - that said it is still just a timeshare. The only value it holds is what an owner makes of it...Resale value can change, restrictions on resale purchases keep coming, perks disappear ect. There are many owners that are unhappy with the product or vacation needs change and currently the resale market is loaded with contracts...a year ago they sold unless than a day now they are sitting a little longer- who knows where the resale market will be in another year. 

For me I am a disney nerd- my intention for my purchase was to stop the clock on hotel prices Disney is someplace I have every intention of going every year with or without DVC so for me the value is the cost benefit vs a hotel stay...right now my annual dues are roughly equal to a hotel room stay at the lowest value resort with a discount code. 

The memories I have with my family there are priceless...that is where the value is.


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## kanerf (Jul 20, 2022)

One thing that sets DVC apart from most other timeshares is that they have a known end date.  You know that you will no longer be responsible for maintenance beyond 2042 or later.  One problem that many timeshares have is the that owners age out and then cannot get rid of the thing.


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## hcarman (Jul 21, 2022)

kanerf said:


> One thing that sets DVC apart from most other timeshares is that they have a known end date.  You know that you will no longer be responsible for maintenance beyond 2042 or later.  One problem that many timeshares have is the that owners age out and then cannot get rid of the thing.


I 100% agree with you and have always wondered why others didn't model themselves more like this.  Not everyone has someone to deed it to when they pass or get to where they can't travel anymore or don't want to travel anymore.  Then you end up with an owner who can't get rid of it and may stop paying dues, which hurts everyone in the end.  I am hearing from others that the younger generations are less interested in the vacation club concept - how true that is I don't know.


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2022)

hcarman said:


> I 100% agree with you and have always wondered why others didn't model themselves more like this.  Not everyone has someone to deed it to when they pass or get to where they can't travel anymore or don't want to travel anymore.  Then you end up with an owner who can't get rid of it and may stop paying dues, which hurts everyone in the end.  I am hearing from others that the younger generations are less interested in the vacation club concept - how true that is I don't know.


I think for most the RTU is a negative.  Most have referrence it that way.  Personally I see advantages and disadvantages.  To me the answer is it doesn't matter until under about 20 years.  The reason DVC holds it's value is simple, it's Disney.


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## heathpack (Jul 21, 2022)

Dean said:


> I think for most the RTU is a negative.  Most have referrence it that way.  Personally I see advantages and disadvantages.  To me the answer is it doesn't matter until under about 20 years.  The reason DVC holds it's value is simple, it's Disney.



Most reference it that way because when they purchase the timeshare, they can’t imagine how their lives/travel habits will change as they and their family grows, AND they value the TS when they purchase it so they believe it will be a valuable asset to leave to their heirs, AND they can’t foresee changes to the TS program (like loss of perks) & how that will affect enjoyment of their TS.

However, time and time again, we see on TUG folks experience ALL of those things and want out from their timeshare, only to learn that there’s no exit strategy.  I’ve made this argument here on TUG in the past, and you flat out told me I was wrong, lol.  But absolutely a built in exit strategy in the form of an expiration date is a great feature IMO.  It’s a great feature even for 40 year old people who don’t think it’s a great feature because they can’t yet imagine their 70-year-old life.

I agree though that I’m not sure if positively affects resale value, other than perhaps folks don’t feel trapped so are more ok with leaping in.  I imagine once there’s not much use left on these contracts, prices will drop.  But hotel prices keep rising, and that will help mitigate the drop in resale prices.  Everything Disney seems to play by its own rules, and normal logic does not always apply.


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## kanerf (Jul 21, 2022)

heathpack said:


> Most reference it that way because when they purchase the timeshare, they can’t imagine how their lives/travel habits will change as they and their family grows, AND they value the TS when they purchase it so they believe it will be a valuable asset to leave to their heirs, AND they can’t foresee changes to the TS program (like loss of perks) & how that will affect enjoyment of their TS.
> 
> However, time and time again, we see on TUG folks experience ALL of those things and want out from their timeshare, only to learn that there’s no exit strategy.  I’ve made this argument here on TUG in the past, and you flat out told me I was wrong, lol.  But absolutely a built in exit strategy in the form of an expiration date is a great feature IMO.  It’s a great feature even for 40 year old people who don’t think it’s a great feature because they can’t yet imagine their 70-year-old life.
> 
> I agree though that I’m not sure if positively affects resale value, other than perhaps folks don’t feel trapped so are more ok with leaping in.  I imagine once there’s not much use left on these contracts, prices will drop.  But hotel prices keep rising, and that will help mitigate the drop in resale prices.  Everything Disney seems to play by its own rules, and normal logic does not always apply.


It will really get interesting when we hit 2032 and the 10 year clock for 2042 resorts starts to tick down.  Will those resorts have any value at that time?  What will the price-per-point look like for resales?


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 21, 2022)

I read some forums where a common message is “The Magic is gone, it’s not coming back, and the Disney company management is killing the parks!” Then I read other forums where prospective and recent buyers of DVC are basing current purchase decisions on the resale value of various resorts 20 or 30 years from now, assuming that past history is predictive of the future. I have to wonder whether I’m the only one who reads both!


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## Dean (Jul 21, 2022)

heathpack said:


> Most reference it that way because when they purchase the timeshare, they can’t imagine how their lives/travel habits will change as they and their family grows, AND they value the TS when they purchase it so they believe it will be a valuable asset to leave to their heirs, AND they can’t foresee changes to the TS program (like loss of perks) & how that will affect enjoyment of their TS.
> 
> However, time and time again, we see on TUG folks experience ALL of those things and want out from their timeshare, only to learn that there’s no exit strategy.  I’ve made this argument here on TUG in the past, and you flat out told me I was wrong, lol.  But absolutely a built in exit strategy in the form of an expiration date is a great feature IMO.  It’s a great feature even for 40 year old people who don’t think it’s a great feature because they can’t yet imagine their 70-year-old life.
> 
> I agree though that I’m not sure if positively affects resale value, other than perhaps folks don’t feel trapped so are more ok with leaping in.  I imagine once there’s not much use left on these contracts, prices will drop.  But hotel prices keep rising, and that will help mitigate the drop in resale prices.  Everything Disney seems to play by its own rules, and normal logic does not always apply.


Most buyers aren't thinking of those things up front.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 21, 2022)

kanerf said:


> One thing that sets DVC apart from most other timeshares is that they have a known end date.  You know that you will no longer be responsible for maintenance beyond 2042 or later.  One problem that many timeshares have is the that owners age out and then cannot get rid of the thing.


A lot of timeshares have a sunset clause, especially the older legacy timeshares.  The date was something like 45 years.  That is how our two in Colorado are.  We are hitting it pretty soon.  Foxrun in North Carolina had and end date a few years ago, and I said the timeshare should end and should be sold as real estate.  I was in the minority.  I sold my week 26 and still have a week 52.  The fees are reasonable and this is a good trader for me.


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## heathpack (Jul 21, 2022)

kanerf said:


> It will really get interesting when we hit 2032 and the 10 year clock for 2042 resorts starts to tick down.  Will those resorts have any value at that time?  What will the price-per-point look like for resales?



I paid $9000 for my 85 point VGC contract 10ish years ago.  At that time, you could sometimes get a hotel room at the Grand Californian for $189/night.  Now the cheapest I ever see those rooms is $400/night.  VGC expires in 30 years.  What will a hotel room cost 20 years from now when there's only 10 years left on the contract?  Maybe $800/night?

An 85 point VGC contract can generate 5 one night studio stays per year, and if you sell at the 10 year mark, you're essentially selling 50 prepaid studio nights.  Say your buyer considers prepaying at $200/night to make sense- $200 x 50 nights is $10,000.  Which is to say- its possible that VGC holds its value right up until that 10 year clock starts.

OF COURSE this is not guaranteed.  OF COURSE I am not counting on it.  OF COURSE Disney could tank out and lose its popularity.  OF COURSE a massive earthquake could knock the resort down and leave nothing to sell.  OF COURSE the new DVC that's being built at DL Hotel could change the equation.

But from my non-delusional perspective, I think folks might be surprised at how well the value holds. at least at VGC.


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## heathpack (Jul 21, 2022)

TheHolleys87 said:


> I read some forums where a common message is “The Magic is gone, it’s not coming back, and the Disney company management is killing the parks!” Then I read other forums where prospective and recent buyers of DVC are basing current purchase decisions on the resale value of various resorts 20 or 30 years from now, assuming that past history is predictive of the future. I have to wonder whether I’m the only one who reads both!



Honestly I am not a huge fan of the "new Disney" myself.  But still I'm going for an overnight stay and two park days in a month.  Glutton for punishment maybe.  Or old habits die hard.  Who knows.  But I am getting to the point of wondering if its really that fun any more.


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## elaine (Jul 21, 2022)

parks not that fun--resorts still fun. now, we plan pop into resort for a couple nights when in FL a few times a year. we've still got 10+ waterpark days and a 5 park days. We'll do a day here/there for the next 5 years and then we're done.


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## noreenkate (Jul 22, 2022)

TheHolleys87 said:


> I read some forums where a common message is “The Magic is gone, it’s not coming back, and the Disney company management is killing the parks!” Then I read other forums where prospective and recent buyers of DVC are basing current purchase decisions on the resale value of various resorts 20 or 30 years from now, assuming that past history is predictive of the future. I have to wonder whether I’m the only one who reads both!



I read both also and I am astonished by the current state of the resale market & the parks…if we learned anything from these past few years IMO it’s anything and everything can change without much notice. I dunno the thought of purchasing resale based on past resort performance is nuts…i am probably crazy but you purchase DVC cause you plan on going on vacation to Disney a lot. Purchasing resale eases the initial blow but is still sunk costs that although I may break even never did I except to recover them.


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## got4boys (Jul 22, 2022)

Disney Vacation Club timeshares is part of the "retirement" plan.  As mentioned in previous posts, it is one of the few timeshares that can go up in value, even buying it at full retail. I made the mistake (don't we all as newbies in timesharing) thinking the RTU was going to be a factor and did not buy it in 1999. Bought something else - lost a bit of money on that one! Boy did I think differently 10 years later. Started the process acquiring, using, selling off (and making a little money) to find the right ones for our retirement years. Right now the plan is to travel in the winter months south or someplace warm, using a mixture of timeshare is the goal.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 23, 2022)

noreenkate said:


> I read both also and I am astonished by the current state of the resale market & the parks…if we learned anything from these past few years IMO it’s anything and everything can change without much notice. I dunno the thought of purchasing resale based on past resort performance is nuts…i am probably crazy but you purchase DVC cause you plan on going on vacation to Disney a lot. Purchasing resale eases the initial blow but is still sunk costs that although I may break even never did I except to recover them.


Yes, I consider our DVC purchase a sunk cost too.  It makes me sad when I read of these young families buying in, especially direct, and basing their decision in large part on which resort will sell for a higher price 10 or 20 years down the line. Who knows what the situation will be with the Disney parks, theme parks in general, the timeshare industry, and the vacations accommodations industry by then? You shouldn’t even assume you’ll be able to sell it, IMHO.


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## noreenkate (Jul 23, 2022)

TheHolleys87 said:


> Yes, I consider our DVC purchase a sunk cost too.  It makes me sad when I read of these young families buying in, especially direct, and basing their decision in large part on which resort will sell for a higher price 10 or 20 years down the line. Who knows what the situation will be with the Disney parks, theme parks in general, the timeshare industry, and the vacations accommodations industry by then? You shouldn’t even assume you’ll be able to sell it, IMHO.


That and the I can leave it to my kids…
was trying to convince family member the other day - resale at this point is not a great option IMO for her family. Yes you get more points for less but with more points comes more responsibility for MFs- why anyone would put 18 year olds still in college on the hook for dues for large contracts before they have their 1st real jobs.
My advice for her was (2) 75 point contracts direct to start. G-d forbid they are easier to unload - And again I am not a fan of the post Riv restrictions...and for a family that has difficulty planning the more options the better


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## frank808 (Jul 23, 2022)

noreenkate said:


> That and the I can leave it to my kids…
> was trying to convince family member the other day - resale at this point is not a great option IMO for her family. Yes you get more points for less but with more points comes more responsibility for MFs- why anyone would put 18 year olds still in college on the hook for dues for large contracts before they have their 1st real jobs.
> My advice for her was (2) 75 point contracts direct to start. G-d forbid they are easier to unload - And again I am not a fan of the post Riv restrictions...and for a family that has difficulty planning the more options the better


I would advise resale contract anywhere but Riviera, Vero and HH. I cannot justify paying 50% more to purchase direct. 

Actually at today's prices, unless you are hard-core Disney fan, I would not advise to buy in.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## noreenkate (Jul 23, 2022)

frank808 said:


> I would advise resale contract anywhere but Riviera, Vero and HH. I cannot justify paying 50% more to purchase direct.
> 
> Actually at today's prices, unless you are hard-core Disney fan, I would not advise to buy in.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



I think direct vs resale is a decision for the individual family involved and how they vacation. That said this family is looking for DLR - whole different ballgame- Home Priority is everything and resale at VGC is no bargain. The new tower at DLH will probably be the easiest way in- The chances of getting 2 small contracts are SLIM without going direct. Remember I brought this up because her justification is well I can leave it to the kids and again I don’t see any legitimate reason pick up extra points just cause it’s cheaper sunk cost especially if odds are you aren’t going to be able to book where you want to go…

_before anyone goes getting your panties in a knot I know- I get it we are  disneynerds and MOST do better resale…BUT that isn’t always an absolute._


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## heathpack (Jul 23, 2022)

noreenkate said:


> I think direct vs resale is a decision for the individual family involved and how they vacation. That said this family is looking for DLR - whole different ballgame- Home Priority is everything and resale at VGC is no bargain. The new tower at DLH will probably be the easiest way in- The chances of getting 2 small contracts are SLIM without going direct. Remember I brought this up because her justification is well I can leave it to the kids and again I don’t see any legitimate reason pick up extra points just cause it’s cheaper sunk cost especially if odds are you aren’t going to be able to book where you want to go…
> 
> _before anyone goes getting your panties in a knot I know- I get it we are  disneynerds and MOST do better resale…BUT that isn’t always an absolute._



I think there’s really two types of buyers: the savvy and the naive.  Sometimes on TUG folks assume that them themselves are savvy but the other guy is naive.

You are obviously not naive.  There *are* some circumstances in which buying direct makes sense.  Disneyland may be one of them.

Regardless, you know you.  You don‘t need to defend your decision!


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 23, 2022)

heathpack said:


> I think there’s really two types of buyers: the savvy and the naive.  Sometimes on TUG folks assume that them themselves are savvy but the other guy is naive.
> 
> You are obviously not naive.  There *are* some circumstances in which buying direct makes sense.  Disneyland may be one of them.
> 
> Regardless, you know you.  You don‘t need to defend your decision!


In this example, savvy is just calculating the monetary difference between resale and direct and then comparing the difference in benefits between the two and thinking of the retail benefits as costing the difference between the price. If the price difference is 10k and the retail benefits are worth 10k to you, then you are being savvy by buying direct because you are getting the value for what you paid for.

That's how I decided what to buy. To me DVC resale costs aren't worth the price difference between Marriott and Wyndham resale. I would rather own Wyndham resale (company that owns RCI) and Marriott resale (company that owns II) over DVC resale. It doesn't matter which exchange company DVC is affiliated with because I will always be able to get SSR and OKW for 40%-%50 cheaper than owning DVC resale and using the points to stay at OKW and SSR. I just need 50 DVC points a year to splurge on the resorts that I can't access via exchange. 

My Wyndham ownership was basically free because I only paid the price of what was already loaded on the contract. My Marriott was $1800 and I plan on getting another week for $3000. I can't justify the purchase price of more DVC points because IMO they aren't worth that much more than Marriott. I think Marriott is the better vacation club company compared to DVC by far.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 24, 2022)

noreenkate said:


> My advice for her was (2) 75 point contracts direct to start.


You may know this, but if she doesn’t own any DVC at all, she’ll have to purchase a minimum 150 point contract direct. If she already owns at least 25 points (resale or direct), then she can purchase two 75 point contracts (or any size, although some resorts have 25 point minimum add on requirements and some have 50). DVD has been pretty strict about that ever since 150 points direct became the “blue card” minimum.


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## noreenkate (Jul 24, 2022)

TheHolleys87 said:


> You may know this, but if she doesn’t own any DVC at all, she’ll have to purchase a minimum 150 point contract direct. If she already owns at least 25 points (resale or direct), then she can purchase two 75 point contracts (or any size, although some resorts have 25 point minimum add on requirements and some have 50). DVD has been pretty strict about that ever since 150 points direct became the “blue card” minimum.



yeah rumor has it it switched in June of this year…she may be joining me next month for a few days at WDW either way I plan to get confirmation from my guide- the (2) 75 point contacts are where I am hoping she starts off - not so much for direct benefits but because she wants kids to have an even split and although they could enjoy benefits now once the contracts go to each kid they are no longer qualified …I just think it’s nuts to potentially put maintenance fees for more than a week in a studio on a young adult…Other than picking up a 2042 resort most will not end before she is no longer traveling the same way…we all know vacation needs change as we age, so more than likely it will fall to the kids to keep or dispose of -that said smaller contracts = smaller dues  to either use or pay until dispose

again considering goal is DLR- it’s gonna better IMO for her to wait till the official on sale announcement for DLH…

My west coast buddy and I are at a similar point - at that sweet spot for beginning  empty nester travel. The one thing I will say is DVC is incredibly user friendly as far as beginner systems to learn it’s small enough and although we all complain about disney IT - they are complete professionals compared to Wyndham and the others I picked up bargain basement


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## nomoretslt (Jul 24, 2022)

@cbyrne1174 what DVC resorts have you been able to splurge at with 50 points?  BWV standard view studios are the best bargain around for location.  Followed by the Tower rooms at Riviera.  Standard studios at AKV are cheap too if you like being that far from the action....but is an excellent resort for winding down and has a great community hall.


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## nomoretslt (Jul 24, 2022)

@noreenkate I love the DVC website.  It really is good for keeping track of all my points, my borrowing and banking.  I love making pretend reservations to see how far my points can go (just don’t click reserve room by accident).  I have to say I have not been plagued by the 7 dwarfs lately.  And reservations for the typhoon lagoon event went smoothly for a family member.  Although I know it is not as popular as the parks one and it was kind of sprung on us last minute.  And empty nester DVC stays are wonderful.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 24, 2022)

nomoretslt said:


> @cbyrne1174 what DVC resorts have you been able to splurge at with 50 points?  BWV standard view studios are the best bargain around for location.  Followed by the Tower rooms at Riviera.  Standard studios at AKV are cheap too if you like being that far from the action....but is an excellent resort for winding down and has a great community hall.


All of them... I live in Tampa. 1 night is all I book at a time. Anything else is just wasteful.


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## heathpack (Jul 25, 2022)

cbyrne1174 said:


> All of them... I live in Tampa. 1 night is all I book at a time. Anything else is just wasteful.



We also only go for one night at a time, maybe two.  We live an hour from Disneyland.


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## chromeo (Aug 18, 2022)

noreenkate said:


> yeah rumor has it it switched in June of this year…she may be joining me next month for a few days at WDW either way I plan to get confirmation from my guide- the (2) 75 point contacts are where I am hoping she starts off


They won't let you buy 2 x 75 as a new member.  The first one has to be 150.  The workaround is to buy a resale contract to become an existing member, and flip it.  If you buy loaded and sell privately, this wouldn't have significant cost, but it would still have cost.  Still maybe worth it if you can use the points, and for the incentives, which were bananas at VGF2.


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