# My Waiohai is dropping like a rock! OUCH!!



## thinze3 (Jun 30, 2008)

The value of my Waiohai unit seems to be in a freefall according to the last two ebay auctions.

These are 2BR annual island view units. (MSRP = $40K)


$14,800.00 - This week.

$16,091.00 - Last week.


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## Docklander (Jun 30, 2008)

It will be interesting to see if they pass ROFR, even in this climate I doubt they will.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 30, 2008)

I sanyone tracking these sales to see if they pass ROFR...awesome price for the buyer. But they still have heafty annual dues and expensive plane tix to Hawaii.


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## gmarine (Jun 30, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I sanyone tracking these sales to see if they pass ROFR...awesome price for the buyer. But they still have heafty annual dues and expensive plane tix to Hawaii.



I think that is the main reason why many timeshare resale prices, especially Hawaii, dropping very quickly. I think it is only going to get worse as we all see large maintenance fee increases the coming year due to fuel costs.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 30, 2008)

The real problem with Hawaii timeshares is that people are getting a triple whammy of - poor economy forcing cutbacks in descretionary spending, high airfare costs and lack of availability, increasing maintenance fees.

But, it is going to be a good year or two for people looking to trade into Hawaii timeshares.


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## thinze3 (Jun 30, 2008)

gmarine said:


> I think that is the main reason why many timeshare resale prices, especially Hawaii, dropping very quickly. I think it is only going to get worse as we all see large maintenance fee increases the coming year due to fuel costs.




That makes me feel much better!

 

(I am sorry to say that I agree.)


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## cp73 (Jun 30, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> But, it is going to be a good year or two for people looking to trade into Hawaii timeshares.



I have noticed that already...I have seen several nice weeks come up for this summer and beyond....

Who knows if it gets real bad we will see them as getaways!!!


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## icydog (Jun 30, 2008)

I used to be able to see HNL on Continental for super saver FF miles. Not anymore. There's no chance of getting to Hawaii using miles. So we won't go. The tickets are too expensive from the east coast to consider HI. 

I guess this will impact my Frenchman's Cove Property as well. Since it costs so much to fly to the Caribbean even from Newark or JFK it may lose value like HI.


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## lll1929 (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree that the Caribbean is also going to get hard. 

Thank goodness for my FF miles.  I was able to get a 3bdrm in Aruba with my 1bdrm Marriott and that was not within Flexchange.  

On top of that, Aruba Ocean club has 10 yr refurb going on so we will have additional cost for the next 2 years.

I wonder if lot of people will try to sell their Aruba Ocean Club.  

I guess time will tell.


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## pedro47 (Jun 30, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> The real problem with Hawaii timeshares is that people are getting a triple whammy of - poor economy forcing cutbacks in descretionary spending, high airfare costs and lack of availability, increasing maintenance fees.
> 
> But, it is going to be a good year or two for people looking to trade into Hawaii timeshares.



I agree Steamboat Bill, the high cost of airfares, the drop in the number of direct flights to the Big Island, and the every increasing  maint fees problem will causes t/s sales in Hawaii to drop for the next few years.


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## pwrshift (Jun 30, 2008)

I believe it takes 75,000 FF miles to go to HI on Business class ... only 5,000 less than Europe on UA partners.  I'll take Europe.  

Seems I'm not alone, according to USA Today (Jun30).  Airports show about 1/3 of US 100 busiest airports will lose at least 10% of their domestic air service compared to a year ago.  Honolulu Oahu leads the pace down 23.7%, with much of this decrease in service from Honolulu to other Hawaiian Islands.  Service from the lower 48 to Honolulu is down 14.4%..

Brian


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## irish (Jun 30, 2008)

10 years ago i purchased 2 weeks at the aruba ocean club. i just loved it there and took advantage of the pre-construction pricing. about 3 months ago i sold 1 of the weeks back to marriott(broke even) for a number of reasons
1-the island has gone in a direction  not to my liking. to much building going on. it is no longer the island i first visited. condos, hotels and big t/s going up all over the place. how can the infrastructure of this island possibly accommodate the influx of people, heavier traffic etc..
IMO: "THEY PAVED PARADISE AND PUT UP A PARKING LOT"
2-m'f's going up  up and up.. when i first purchased, my m/f's were something like $547. this year i expect it to be around $900..with an s/a of $500 to boot.
renting is no longer as easy as it used to be. to many places on the market(and it's just going to get worse) and a poor economy do not translate to an easy rental.
3-airfares and air travel have become impossible.
4-JMO..i worry about the help they are bringing in from other places to service the hotel and restaurant industries. aruba is no longer the crime-free island it used to be(or perhaps we are just hearing about it more). it used to be advertised as ONE HAPPY ISLAND. i don't think that's true anymore(JMO)
so i decided to get out while i could and the $$ were still there.  just kept the 1 week i have to use  for trading.


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## thinze3 (Jun 30, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> I believe it takes 75,000 FF miles to go to HI on Business class ... only 5,000 less than Europe on UA partners.  I'll take Europe.
> 
> Seems I'm not alone, according to USA Today (Jun30).  Airports show about 1/3 of US 100 busiest airports will lose at least 10% of their domestic air service compared to a year ago.  Honolulu Oahu leads the pace down 23.7%, with much of this decrease in service from Honolulu to other Hawaiian Islands.  Service from the lower 48 to Honolulu is down 14.4%..
> 
> Brian



Notice that CAL is not offering business class flights from IAH to HNL using FF miles - neither EasyPass nor SaverPass. This is in spite of the fact that they have two large plane nonstops daily.

As I am trying to start planning for next summer's trip to Hawaii, I looked this weekend for the month of May 2009. Nothing was there so I called CAL and asked about this. I even asked asked about FF upgrades. They said "no can do."

Terry


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## Steamboat Bill (Jun 30, 2008)

pwrshift said:


> I believe it takes 75,000 FF miles to go to HI on Business class ... only 5,000 less than Europe on UA partners.  I'll take Europe.



Those are advertised prices that seem to NEVER be available. I flew to Hawaii and had to pay 50,000 just for coach   and I needed 4 tix.

I am also seeing no 25k for coach or 45k for first class to Utah for my yearly ski trip via Delta as they want 50k and 90k respectifully. I may actually pay cash for the first time in a long time.


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## Hoc (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't see that as dropping.  Last I checked, about 2 years ago, Waiohai units were worth about $10,000 resale.  Didn't matter if they were island view or ocean view.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 30, 2008)

Why buy when you can exchange for the cost of an AC?  About $300 plus tax.


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## californiagirl (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree with most of what has been said above.  I live in So. Cal.  We got our FF seats for our Oct. '08 Kauai trip on HA back in April before Aloha's demise.  I recently checked the price on HA for economy seats for the same dates, (just to see what the price was)  approx $1000.00/pp from LAX!!  

I began to worry what to expect to pay now to go to St. Thomas.  So I then checked the same dates from LAX to St. Thomas:  $466.00 RT!!!  I was shocked.  We paid over $700/pp last Oct.  This was on AA, daytime flights with only one stop.  I don't understand.  There are not that many more planes going to St. Thomas than Hawaii.  I only hope (most likely in vain) that the prices stay the same for next year.

We usually go to Hawaii at least once per year.  I think those days are over.   If we do go, we will spend far less on food and activities since airfare will be such a big chunk of the budget.


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## ondeadlin (Jun 30, 2008)

AA still showing excellent base award availability to Hawaii.

By far the best FF program for availability (still) and always where I funnel my travel package miles.

Unless BA's offering a bonus, of course, and then I funnel them to BA and use those miles on AA. Two or three years ago they had a 50 percent bonus and I netted 180k BA miles on a travel package. Then I got the credit card and piled up a few more, which is the source of my 5 RTs to Hawaii in a few weeks.

We're staying in a 2BR Marriott Maui, nabbed last week. Lucky timing with the downturn and all.


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## thinze3 (Jun 30, 2008)

Hoc said:


> I don't see that as dropping.  Last I checked, about 2 years ago, Waiohai units were worth about $10,000 resale.  Didn't matter if they were island view or ocean view.



I bought my resale unit in early 2006. The resales then were closer to $19-20K for EY and $11-12K for EOY.


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## Hoc (Jul 1, 2008)

thinze3 said:


> I bought my resale unit in early 2006. The resales then were closer to $19-20K for EY and $11-12K for EOY.



I'm sorry.  I was thinking of Kauai Beach Club.  Waiohais were going for more at the time.


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## Zac495 (Jul 1, 2008)

irish said:


> 10 years ago i purchased 2 weeks at the aruba ocean club. i just loved it there and took advantage of the pre-construction pricing. about 3 months ago i sold 1 of the weeks back to marriott(broke even) for a number of reasons
> 1-the island has gone in a direction  not to my liking. to much building going on. it is no longer the island i first visited. condos, hotels and big t/s going up all over the place. how can the infrastructure of this island possibly accommodate the influx of people, heavier traffic etc..
> 2-m'f's going up  up and up.. when i first purchased, my m/f's were something like $547. this year i expect it to be around $900..with an s/a of $500 to boot.
> renting is no longer as easy as it used to be. to many places on the market(and it's just going to get worse) and a poor economy do not translate to an easy rental.
> ...



What would a 2 bedroom gold resale for with Marriott?


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## irish (Jul 1, 2008)

zac495
don't know the answer to your question. call marriott resales and they can tell you.


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## Cathyb (Jul 1, 2008)

I agree with many of your statements about Aruba and its overbuilding -- somewhat similar to St. Maarten -- my 'used-to-be' favorite island.


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## Jpollo (Jul 1, 2008)

*Three Waiohai Islandviews on Ebay*

Hi Everyone... first post.

There are currently three Waiohai Island View units for sale on Ebay.  

In the past I doubt the latest $14,800 and $16,091 purchases would have passed ROFR - perhaps it will be different in today's environment. 

Jason


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## thinze3 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Wecome to TUG!!*  

Jason,
I couldn't agree with you more about the possibilty of getting past ROFR at this time. ANYTHING is possible to pass. IMO

Terry




Jpollo said:


> Hi Everyone... first post.
> 
> There are currently three Waiohai Island View units for sale on Ebay.
> 
> ...


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## normab (Jul 1, 2008)

icydog said:


> I used to be able to see HNL on Continental for super saver FF miles. Not anymore. There's no chance of getting to Hawaii using miles. So we won't go. The tickets are too expensive from the east coast to consider HI.
> 
> I guess this will impact my Frenchman's Cove Property as well. Since it costs so much to fly to the Caribbean even from Newark or JFK it may lose value like HI.



We got FF tx for this November on Continental in the past month.  We saw the direct flight with standard for economy and double miles for the first class.  We also saw, several months ago, standard miles for first class if you were interested in Delta or NW flights with connections.

So, there are tix, it just depends when you are going and when you log on to look.  Seems like they deposit seats periodically if they are not selling so many...


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## thinze3 (Jul 6, 2008)

I feel a little better now. Maybe last week was just an aberrrition.
The lastest Waiohai 2BR Isalnd View just sold on eBay for over $18,000.

Somebady did, however, get a good deal on this Ko'Olina for under $16K.

Terry


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## DougH (Jul 15, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Those are advertised prices that seem to NEVER be available. I flew to Hawaii and had to pay 50,000 just for coach   and I needed 4 tix.
> 
> I am also seeing no 25k for coach or 45k for first class to Utah for my yearly ski trip via Delta as they want 50k and 90k respectifully. I may actually pay cash for the first time in a long time.



I just got 6 tickets from Nashville to Honolulu on NW at the 35k miles price.  This is for June/July 2009.


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## vacationtime1 (Jul 15, 2008)

A friend reports that she was in Honolulu last week, wanted to extend her trip, called United, and had her choice of flights the next day on FF miles.  She reports the 767 between Honolulu and SFO was half full.

I think the airlines overplayed their hand following the Aloha and ATA bankruptcies and are getting caught.  

I've never been able to figure out why I can usually fly from SFO to Detroit (2100 miles) for $350-$400 when there is no competition (Northwest is the only non-stop carrier), but it costs $700+ to fly from SFO to Kauai (also 2100 miles).


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## Cathyb (Jul 15, 2008)

Two weeks ago we flew from LAX to Maui on American 10am AM departure flight and each had aisle seats -- my husband was alone in the 2 seat side and I was alone with the center 3 seat group -- it was great -- lots of room.


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## isisdave (Jul 16, 2008)

Wow, I don't get this ... we went LAX-KOA June 15, and HNL-LAX June 29, and both were absolutely full (757s), although they did add a few standbys at the end of boarding.

But we had bought these in March at about $600.  What was the cost of tix on the "half-full" flight?


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## thinze3 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Good News!*

Waiohai is trying to come back!
These are 2BR annual island view units. (MSRP = $40K)



$14,800.00 - Mid June.

$16,091.00 - Late June.

$18,651.00 - Mid July


Terry


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## m61376 (Jul 23, 2008)

thinze3 said:


> Waiohai is trying to come back!
> These are 2BR annual island view units. (MSRP = $40K)
> 
> 
> ...



Wonder if these passed ROFR....
I guess a sign of the times.


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## thinze3 (Aug 19, 2008)

This seller did pretty well for an EOY, considering the softness of the TS market.

Terry

$12,100 EOY OV


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## GregT (Aug 19, 2008)

I agree, I was surprised that the price sold as high as it did, but frankly, an EOY in Hawaii may be a more realistic alternative in the current environment.


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## isisdave (Aug 19, 2008)

I contacted this buyer; he's a Tugger and promised to post on the ROFR database when he finds out.  My bet's that Marriott will take it.


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## Beverley (Aug 19, 2008)

lll1929 said:


> I agree that the Caribbean is also going to get hard.
> 
> Thank goodness for my FF miles.  I was able to get a 3bdrm in Aruba with my 1bdrm Marriott and that was not within Flexchange.
> 
> ...



Was the 3 bedroom also a Marriott exchange?  Just wondering if II allowed you to place a request with a 1 bedroom for a 3 bedroom Marriott to Marriott.  I have noticed that if I trade outside of Marriott I have no problem pulling more than my Marriott unit size, but Marriott to Marriott does not allow the request to be placed for more than the sleeping size.  If you know another way, please share.

Thanks 

Beverley


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## thinze3 (Aug 19, 2008)

Beverley said:


> Was the 3 bedroom also a Marriott exchange?  Just wondering if II allowed you to place a request with a 1 bedroom for a 3 bedroom Marriott to Marriott.  I have noticed that if I trade outside of Marriott I have no problem pulling more than my Marriott unit size, but Marriott to Marriott does not allow the request to be placed for more than the sleeping size.  If you know another way, please share.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Beverley



You may be able to "pull" a larger unit with II, but you cannot "request" a larger unit.

Terry


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## TSResalez (Aug 21, 2008)

Docklander said:


> It will be interesting to see if they pass ROFR, even in this climate I doubt they will.



Just about anything will pass ROFR. With the current financial situation the market is experiencing. Developers are feeling the crunch and now is the time to find very low prices for TS's.:whoopie:


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## 1965 (Aug 21, 2008)

why should i buy a WHBC for $14,000 platinum annual use
on ebay in the future?

what will it give me access to thru Interval/marriott that
my
Marriott Shadow ridge/Best week in March, 2009 would not "pull"

my initial negative is MWBC is 2 bedroom dedicated
not a lock off
and costs $5,000 more

thanks 4 advice in advance


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 21, 2008)

1965 said:


> why should i buy a WHBC for $14,000 platinum annual use
> on ebay in the future?
> 
> what will it give me access to thru Interval/marriott that
> ...



In a word, view.  Hawaii properties (at least Waiohai, WKORV, and MOC) are sold with view categories.  Exchangers get the worst views.  At Waiohai and WKORV (and possibly others), that includes parking lot views.  That doesn't mean that exchangers cannot get decent views, but it does mean that they are in line behind all owners (including island view owners).  I suppose Marriott exchangers are ahead of non-Marriott exchangers and previewers, but traveling 2100 miles to look at a parking lot is a risk I would not take on an annual basis.


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## thinze3 (Aug 21, 2008)

1965 said:


> why should i buy a WHBC for $14,000 platinum annual use on ebay in the future?
> 
> what will it give me access to thru Interval/marriott that my Marriott Shadow ridge/Best week in March, 2009 would not "pull" .....




Most likely scenario is that a good 2BR Waiohai deposit would beat out a similar 2BR Shadow Ridge in trade request at II.
*IMO*

Terry


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## Jpollo (Sep 15, 2008)

*Passed ROFR today*

Hi Folks,

Just wanted to update everyone that my purchase of the EOY Waiohai (mentioned earlier in this thread) passed ROFR at $12,100.  

This is 43% of the developer price - we've all seen some go as low as 38%, but I'm happy with it as I've been looking for awhile and couldn't get multiple sellers to go any lower (@ Redweek, Sellmytimesharenow, etc.)

Off to the ROFR site to post...

Jason


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## cp73 (Sep 16, 2008)

Great job Jason. That is a super resort. We enjoyed our stay there in February and can't wait to return. Great resort to have especially since you live in Norcal.


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## qlaval (Sep 16, 2008)

Congrats Jpollo!


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## Jpollo (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks all. As a current owner it's bittersweet to pay so little.


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