# Westgate Value and All weeks



## BKViking (Feb 24, 2008)

OK. last year I had to use a different week and called up Westgate and was told I had to pay a $139 exchange fee (which I expected) plus a $500 fee because I was trading into a high season week.  

I screamed bloody murder that when we bought the resort we were told all weeks were treated the same, etc., etc.  and demanded to speak to a supervisor.  After several minutes on hold, the woman came back and said a supervisor wasn't available, but they'd waive the season upgrade fee (I still had to pay the developer's exchange fee ... but I expected that).

I then asked her when this change happened, and how I could find out which weeks were value weeks, and she wasn't especially helpful, but now I've found on Westgate's website a list of which weeks are "Value", which are "All" and which are "Fixed Event" weeks.

But to make matters more confusing, I just looked at Westgate's Owner's guide, which also explains the differing week value policy for exchanging.  The guide can be found here: https://ssl2.westgateresorts.com/oam/pdfs/westgateOwnersGuide.pdf

Anyway, when you go through the resorts, Westgate Vacation Villas says "Not applicable" to the description of the weeks, and most of the other resorts, say "Westgate Town Center" has the weeks broken up according to Value, All and Fixed Event.

What gives?  Are all weeks at Westgate Vacation Villas equal for exchanging purposes?  They should be ... it seems like a breach of contract for Westgate to devalue the week I bought ... instituting a new policy for people who buy later is one thing, but otherwise, they should refund money to me.

Anyone know?


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## gmarine (Feb 24, 2008)

BKViking said:


> OK. last year I had to use a different week and called up Westgate and was told I had to pay a $139 exchange fee (which I expected) plus a $500 fee because I was trading into a high season week.
> 
> I screamed bloody murder that when we bought the resort we were told all weeks were treated the same, etc., etc.  and demanded to speak to a supervisor.  After several minutes on hold, the woman came back and said a supervisor wasn't available, but they'd waive the season upgrade fee (I still had to pay the developer's exchange fee ... but I expected that).
> 
> ...



Westgate changed the internal exchange policy, maybe about two years ago. When exchanging internally from low season to high season you pay an upgrade fee. 

As much as I hate WG, it doesnt matter to me as I own a high season week and if I owned a low season week I wouldnt expect to trade into high season. The change in no way devalues your week. You still can use your week or deposit it with II and hope to get a higher season week through II.


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## JLB (Feb 24, 2008)

. . . . .  . . . . .

Nickel and diming . . . any way to fee(d) the cash cow.


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## timeos2 (Feb 24, 2008)

*A giant cesspool of Waste. Wastegate.*



gmarine said:


> Westgate changed the internal exchange policy, maybe about two years ago. When exchanging internally from low season to high season you pay an upgrade fee.
> 
> As much as I hate WG, it doesnt matter to me as I own a high season week and if I owned a low season week I wouldnt expect to trade into high season. The change in no way devalues your week. You still can use your week or deposit it with II and hope to get a higher season week through II.



No devaluation? It wasn't SOLD THAT WAY. All 52 weeks were equal in 1993 but suddenly in 2006 they changed? Why? Because the King saw a way toget more money from the suckered owners.  

DO NOT ever use "internal exchange" at Wastegate. It's just anpother total ripoff from the company that should have been credited with creating the term. II and Wastegate are in cahoots as well. Best to trade rpivately, sell the week (for a few cents most likely) or use RCI which gets very few Wastegates now days so they value them higher than II who is swamped with the sewage that flows from the King.  

In general dumping Wastgate and never buying anything from them is the best bet. If you have one then find a way to maximize the value without involving Wastegate fees as they will screw you at every turn. You've been warned. Do not play their game as you will lose every time.


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## BKViking (Feb 24, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Westgate changed the internal exchange policy, maybe about two years ago. When exchanging internally from low season to high season you pay an upgrade fee.
> 
> As much as I hate WG, it doesnt matter to me as I own a high season week and if I owned a low season week I wouldnt expect to trade into high season. The change in no way devalues your week. You still can use your week or deposit it with II and hope to get a higher season week through II.



Thanks, but I understand the policy basically.

My question was, did you look at the Westgate Owner's manual - link posted in my OP.  Does the High/Value season policy apply to all resorts?  If so, why does WGV state "Not Applicable" next to the description?


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## Kola (Feb 25, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> No devaluation? It wasn't SOLD THAT WAY. All 52 weeks were equal in 1993 but suddenly in 2006 they changed? Why? Because the King saw a way toget more money from the suckered owners.
> 
> DO NOT ever use "internal exchange" at Wastegate. It's just anpother total ripoff from the company that should have been credited with creating the term. ....



Sorry, John, but just because ALL WEEKS were SOLD as equal doesn't mean they WERE equal. That was the sales pitch in many (most) Orlando resorts, not just at Westgate resorts. You know very well, as I do, that some sales people will offer you anything, including a trip to the moon to close a sale. But surely most buyers know that a July week is not equal in value to an October week and this disparity was most likely reflected in the initial pricing. We all know about an overwhelming desire by T/S owners to buy cheaper, low or shoulder season weeks hoping to exchange for a higher value in-season weeks. That's normal, it's human nature. But the results are also well known, - a shortage of in-season high demand weeks and a surplus of off-season weeks. Some portion of that surplus simply goes to waste each and every year, - some low demand weeks cannot be rented even at give-away prices. Why shouldn't a resort developer attempt to stop or at least to minimize a predictable waste of limited life assets ? And isn't the Point system at least in part based on a premise that all weeks ARE NOT EQUAL and you have to pay a premium price (in points) for a premium week ? 

I am not defending Westgate policies, particularly their heavy-handed marketing policies. But let's not forget that no one is under an obligation to use Westgate, or any other, internal exchange system as there are all sorts of options including, but not limited to, exchanging via II, SFX, RCI, DAE, etc. It is normal for T/S owners to experiment with several options. And, may I ask, aren't escallating annual membership charges also a form of a rip-off ?
Why should we pay annual membership fees given that RCI & II impose ever higher exchange fees ?
Fortunately, I own high season weeks only and have no need to woory about a seasonal upgrade. 
OK, let's keep exchanging, but let's not forget equal value trades !

Kola


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## timeos2 (Feb 25, 2008)

*Wastegate. The cesspool of timeshares sales and operations*



Kola said:


> Sorry, John, but just because ALL WEEKS were SOLD as equal doesn't mean they WERE equal. That was the sales pitch in many (most) Orlando resorts, not just at Westgate resorts. You know very well, as I do, that some sales people will offer you anything, including a trip to the moon to close a sale. But surely most buyers know that a July week is not equal in value to an October week and this disparity was most likely reflected in the initial pricing. We all know about an overwhelming desire by T/S owners to buy cheaper, low or shoulder season weeks hoping to exchange for a higher value in-season weeks. That's normal, it's human nature. But the results are also well known, - a shortage of in-season high demand weeks and a surplus of off-season weeks. Some portion of that surplus simply goes to waste each and every year, - some low demand weeks cannot be rented even at give-away prices. Why shouldn't a resort developer attempt to stop or at least to minimize a predictable waste of limited life assets ? And isn't the Point system at least in part based on a premise that all weeks ARE NOT EQUAL and you have to pay a premium price (in points) for a premium week ?
> 
> I am not defending Westgate policies, particularly their heavy-handed marketing policies. But let's not forget that no one is under an obligation to use Westgate, or any other, internal exchange system as there are all sorts of options including, but not limited to, exchanging via II, SFX, RCI, DAE, etc. It is normal for T/S owners to experiment with several options. And, may I ask, aren't escallating annual membership charges also a form of a rip-off ?
> Why should we pay annual membership fees given that RCI & II impose ever higher exchange fees ?
> ...



Of course there are differences - thats why most resorts, even those "red" year round, have at least two designated seasons. When that was the case we purchased the best.  

So when we were sold a "no season" week at Wastegate - and that is exactly  how it was for over a decade - there was nothing in any paperwork or disclosure to designate a season to any of the fixed weeks. But mere laws and regulations never stop the King from imposing unilateral changes. With no warning, the time was "seasonalized". No warning and most certainly a change in the value. For other examples see the undesired maid service they imposed on owners - along with a fee increase - and the unilateral (and illegal) ROFR they claim to hold for weeks sold without that clause among many others. 

Fortunately the season fiasco only effects internal trades with the Wastegate Cesspool.  We would NEVER use that due to the cost and these types of games that Wastegate is so very good at.  By simply using our deeded week OR trading with a reliable system such as SFX, RCI Points or privately we don't need to be involved with the newly created and bogus "seasons" from the King. Never use II as they are awash in these units and, as they do with all their favored developers, will go along with anything the management wants to do (like NOT assigning your DEEDED week to the exchange pool! Just give the DEEDED owner any old "equal" week. And II says "so what can we do?).  II is nearly as crooked as Wastegate with the stuff they pull. 

The only things ownership at Wastegate has gotten us are great vacations (Yeah! - That was the idea!), a lesson in the nightmare ownership can be when the resort(s) are operated by a truly horrendous, unprincipled and megalomaniac owner/management and how to be super creative as well as (hopefully) irritating and a giant waste of time and effort for the sales weasels. All of which I'd get rid of tomorrow if a sucker, er, buyer came along to pay even the small amount we paid for this resale.  Now I'll continue to crusade to warn people away from the WORST timeshare organization - and given the reputation of timeshares that is saying something - the Wastegate group. 

Never, ever buy from them and think really, really hard before you buy even resale. This is not a company you want any involvement with if it can possibly be avoided. And it's easy to avoid - don't buy in!  This isn't coming from some    bitter ex-owner but a current owner of over 12 years that once thought Wastegate was a good value especially at a nice, low resale price. Now I know they couldn't pay you enough to put up with this slimy organization.  Best to simply stay away.  Let those of us who already deal with the King find a way to turn this lemon into lemonade at some point.


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## Bill4728 (Feb 25, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Never, ever buy from them and think really, really hard before you buy even resale. This is not a company you want any involvement with if it can possibly be avoided. And it's easy to avoid - don't buy in!  This isn't coming from some    bitter ex-owner but a current owner of over 12 years that once thought Wastegate was a good value especially at a nice, low resale price. Now I know they couldn't pay you enough to put up with this slimy organization.  Best to simply stay away.  Let those of us who already deal with the King find a way to turn this lemon into lemonade at some point.



John,

   Come on, tell us how you really feel.


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## JeffW (Feb 25, 2008)

Just chiming in here - I really think the Westgate bashing needs to stop.  Yeah, it may be a horrible company, and they may have some bad tactics, but that's only advice for people NOW getting into Westgate.  For people that own Westgate for 10-15 years, they just want the find the best way to deal with it.  Unless your advice 100% of the time is to sell, to get away from them, then owners are looking for answers to their questions.  

If you had a friend that had mortgage problems, you don't need to tell them, "You shouldn't have taken out that ARM mortgage."  They probably already know that.  However, now that they are stuck with it, they'd still like advice on the best way to deal with it.  If you can't offer constructive advice, maybe it's not worth saying anything.

Just my 2c (and BTW, myself and my parents are Westgate owners).

Jeff


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## timeos2 (Feb 25, 2008)

*Hard to bash when they do it so well all by themselves*

Unfortunately we owners have virtually zero say as regards operation of "our" resorts. They are the personal playthings of the developer - owners don't count. And since the only thing important to the King and his Weasels are sales the best place to attempt to get their attention is to warn others not to buy retail - I go even further to say even at resale Wastegate is no bargain. 

Even if Wastegate was being run perfectly and as the owners, not sales, would prefer the shear number of units under the Wastegate banner -  with no end but only more in sight - means the trade value is near zero.  Far too much supply. Add in the obnoxious operation of both the resorts and the never ending sales pressure and you have a resort group that simply doesn't represent a good value at any price. 

Thats the sad truth of Wastegate. Bashing? Maybe. But they could stop it in an instant. They choose to continue to be the cesspool of timeshare.  It's the way it is with no change in sight.


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## frenchieinme (Feb 25, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Unfortunately we owners have virtually zero say as regards operation of "our" resorts. They are the personal playthings of the developer - owners don't count. And since the only thing important to the King and his Weasels are sales the best place to attempt to get their attention is to warn others not to buy retail - I go even further to say even at resale Wastegate is no bargain.
> 
> Even if Wastegate was being run perfectly and as the owners, not sales, would prefer the shear number of units under the Wastegate banner -  with no end but only more in sight - means the trade value is near zero.  Far too much supply. Add in the obnoxious operation of both the resorts and the never ending sales pressure and you have a resort group that simply doesn't represent a good value at any price.
> 
> Thats the sad truth of Wastegate. Bashing? Maybe. But they could stop it in an instant. They choose to continue to be the cesspool of timeshare.  It's the way it is with no change in sight.



There is too much ill feeling and misinformation found in the wastegate perceived bashing or information sharing as some call it.  e.g., mandatory maid service which is not so.  There is free mid week linen change and replenishing of supplies such as soap, dish washing liquid, linens, etc...  If someone wants daily maid service, they ask for it and pay for it.  Personnaly, I do not need nor ask for daily maid service and do not get it.  Plain and simple with no mcharges.  What is worng with this?

I am presently on a 2 week sojourn at Westgate Lakes with my family and invited guests.  As my wife and I meander at different pools, I have asked 15 different present owners (both new and the last one today an owner since 1992) about their experiences with Westgate Lakes and the Westgate Resorts THEY HAVE HAD EXPERIENCES WITH and none expressed any bitterness or displeasure with their Westgate onwership and experiences.  This WASTEGATE view of things were a complete surprise to them.

Yes some people have had negative experiences with the Westgate Resorts (as has been expressed here) but there are many others who have had complete opposite results.  Does that give the right to some to go on a mission to discourage or deny others of the positive experiences that many out there have experienced and continue to experience?  

What can you say when you walk in (like I did) to your unit and behold find new rugs, new tiles, new appliances, my needs addressed within 15 to 20 minutes of request, etc...???   Beyond that, my 2008 banked 1 BR (studio lock offs) units all pulling nice 2BR units in 2009.  That is poor exchange power???  

Come on now, let's get a life here.  Move on.  Life is to short to hold on to such a grudge.  Loosen up folks!!!  

As for the seasons being all the same at all Westgate resorts, that is so but an event week at Park City Utah may be different (based on supply and demand) than let's say an Orlando events week.  Again as someone in this thread stated, I really do not care that much since (like my coin collection) I only bought event weeks which (again because of supply and demand) provides me with certain accompanying benefits like when I exchanged my 3BR 2008 Daytona 500 week 6 event week (a very high denmand low supply week) for a low demand week 11 in March (my daughter's TN spring break), I was not charged a Westgate internal exchange charge.  Had the opposite occured where someone exchanged a low week 11 for an event week 6 Daytona week, an exchange fee would have resulted.  Is that unfair?  Those with low demand weeks think it is unfair while those with high demand weeks think it is not.  That's life!   

frenchieinme


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## timeos2 (Feb 26, 2008)

*The mess is from the top down. Its just a matter of finding out*



frenchieinme said:


> There is too much ill feeling and misinformation found in the wastegate perceived bashing or information sharing as some call it.  e.g., mandatory maid service which is not so.  There is free mid week linen change and replenishing of supplies such as soap, dish washing liquid, linens, etc...  If someone wants daily maid service, they ask for it and pay for it.  Personnaly, I do not need nor ask for daily maid service and do not get it.  Plain and simple with no mcharges.  What is worng with this?
> 
> frenchieinme



Maybe the Maid thing has changed (no surprise there - things seem to change daily at Wastegate as the sales department commands) but that was the primary justification in 2006 for the $100 jump in fees at WWV.  A "service" no one but the Weasels desired and certainly didn't want to pay for. Meanwhile the  ten year old ripped leather sofas, rusty refrigerator and worn out looking drapes all made it through another season in one of the WWV units we were in that year. How much better that $100 would have been used for renovation/update rather than feeding the Weasels.  

If the maid service has been stopped (hopefully) why haven't  operational fees gone down $100 since as that was the reason for them? It certainly hasn't been absorbed into the reserves (I looked at the 2008 bill - still less than $100 reserves as the units cry out for work). I'm sure the outrageous fees paid to the Management were raised to be sure that things stayed steady.  

Gee, too bad we can't talk to/contact our Board to get these obvious cases of total mismanagement fixed. Nope. No contact information as the so called Board members are merely pawns of the megalomaniac King and he orders them to keep the cash coming (We need another $5.4 million to cover his A** in yet another lawsuit - I guess deferred maintenance will have to wait a few more years!).  There is no defense for this operation. If owners are happy it's because they haven't yet realized the ugly underbelly that actually is Wastegate.  Give it time they'll learn.


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## JLB (Feb 26, 2008)

Actually, honestly, I understands both sides of this.

Owners get tired of hearing the same old Schtick.  You see the name of your resort, followed by a complaint, and it irritates you.  When one owner counters, other owners like to pile on, feeling the force is with them.

Likewise, when someone posts a negative experience, one who had the same negative experience tends to chime in also.

Since this is a real-time forum, each new thread is exactly that, new, and it is presumed that the OP has not heard all the same old Schtick before.  The unwritten rules of the bbs do not allow the reposting of comments not made in the current thread.

Find a way to preserve the same old Schtick, say, so that it can easily be found by the new person, like complaints filed with the AG or the BBB, and repetition may not be needed.

Of course, I am not a sanctioned _referree_, but, as this issue has been explained to me over the last ten years, the bbs operates on a *balance of posting in the current thread method*.  Those whose experience differs from another's experience have the right to post as often as they wish.  And personal criticism, either way, is not allowed.

This is one of few fights here that I do/did have a dog in, but I feel those sharing their negative experiences, although diligent and steadfast in their mission, pale in comparison to what is out there, what could be said.


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## frenchieinme (Feb 26, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> Maybe the Maid thing has changed (no surprise there - things seem to change daily at Wastegate as the sales department commands) but that was the primary justification in 2006 for the $100 jump in fees at WWV.  A "service" no one but the Weasels desired and certainly didn't want to pay for. Meanwhile the  ten year old ripped leather sofas, rusty refrigerator and worn out looking drapes all made it through another season in one of the WWV units we were in that year. How much better that $100 would have been used for renovation/update rather than feeding the Weasels.
> 
> If the maid service has been stopped (hopefully) why haven't  operational fees gone down $100 since as that was the reason for them? It certainly hasn't been absorbed into the reserves (I looked at the 2008 bill - still less than $100 reserves as the units cry out for work). I'm sure the outrageous fees paid to the Management were raised to be sure that things stayed steady.
> 
> .



You keep referencing WWV where you own and state your displeasure at what you are experiencing.  You have every right to do that and I support you in this.  The point I am trying to make and it appears to be overlooked is your comment are carried to other Westgate resorts which is inherently unfair.  You can not paint everything with the same brush.  Because WWV has low reserves and can not do proper maintenance and because WWV is experiencing many poor quality in areas you have specifically referenced, it should not be carried out and assumed to be the same in all other Westgate resorts.

Maybe WWV is a Wastegate resort but I can assure you from my experiences at Westgate Lakes and the people (owners) I have come in contact with and interview, they have no clue as to what you are referencing in the Wastegate resort references.

By the way, I spoke to 2 WWV people who came here at WGL to use our pool.  They said they were trying to get in as much of Westgate resorts as they could.  I asked them if their WWV was up to standard and if they were pleased with it.  They said it was and they were pleased with their unit.  (I should have asked them which unit was theirs so as we could compare with you yours vs, theirs).  Now these people are content and are not nor have they experienced your experiences and yet both own at the same place.  Go figure, uh?

I know you are correct in your experiences but you need to realize not every owner has.  As soon as I encounter one I will be the 1st to report it here on TUG.  Until then I can only report the factual first hand conversations I am having with both WGL (predominantly) and WWV owners.

By the way, when was your last stay at WWV?  Also state your unit # so as when I speak with other WWV owners who come here I will be better able to have them compare to make this more factual and specific.

frenchieinme


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## JLB (Feb 26, 2008)

See how easy it is, this balance of posting thing, the negatives balancing the positives.

This is where I would normally post the tripadvisor rankings, showing that it is more than just a couple of fuddy duddies on TUG, showing that virtually all WG resorts are rated very poorly by those who care to do so.  Yeah, even compared to other timeshare in the same areas.

Then I would mention how WG has lost their RCI ratings, down from GC at one time to none now, and that, supposedly, those ratings are not because of politics, but based on comment _cards_, from RCI guests at WG.  I would mention that after WG buys highly-rated resorts, the ratings go downhill.

Then, that opens up that can of worms, the _why RCI might not like WG, and Mr. Seagull_ can.

and so on . . .

I suspect that like this type of thing concerning OLCC here on TUG has sorta died down, and the owners have learned how to sorta go along with the little things that some folks don't like about their resort, that the same thing will likely happen with WG.

The thing that makes it a little different is that WG's leader just doesn't seem to be a very likeable person.


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## frenchieinme (Feb 26, 2008)

JLB said:


> ...Then I would mention how WG has lost their RCI ratings, down from GC at one time to none now, and that, supposedly, those ratings are not because of politics, but based on comment _cards_, from RCI guests at WG.  I would mention that after WG buys highly-rated resorts, the ratings go downhill...
> 
> ...The thing that makes it a little different is that WG's leader just doesn't seem to be a very likeable person...



JLB, just what I meant in my post to Time02 (???).  Your first paragraph is incorrect as Westgate Lakes is affiliated with II.  The only one to have a RCI affiliation is Westgate Villas which has (or had) a dual RCI/II affiliation.  Hence, when you make a comment Westgate lost its RCI affiliation you need to make sure you are referencing WWV and not the others which have no RCI affiliation.  One needs to make sure when talking about WWV that one does not mistake it for Westgate Lakes.  

The point I have been making here is the 2 are referenced as if they were the same.  I can assure you they are not.  Westgate Lakes is still and continues to get me great trading power.  WWV & WGL need to be taken as separate entities just like comparing WWV and Gatlinburg are not the same (I stayed in Gatlinburg and the place is exquisite) neither is comparing WWV to Park City Utah doing anyone justice.

Let's get our facts straight and factual (factual = one perceived it thru one's experience)and make sure it is not heresay defined as he said she said it was so and so.

As for your last statement, I would guess Mr. Siegel's mother mother would not appreciate people feeling the way they do about him.  I know one woman with $5.2 million that thinks he is OK.

frenchieinme


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 26, 2008)

*WestGate Impressions.*

The timeshare tour complimentary gourmet breakfast was outstanding over at WestGate Town Center, going in via the blue-awning VIP side entrance, I mean, not through the main entrance leading to the chow line where the peons get pop-tarts.  Froot Loops & Tang for the rank & file.  Canadian bacon & omelets cooked to order for the VIPs. 

The WestGate timeshare sellers we've encountered have been consistently on message -- I-I is great, RCI is the pits, _Mr. Siegel Is A Great American_*,* WestGate timeshare units will exchange into anywhere we want to go any time we want to go there, WestGate's internal exchange system is perfect, WestGate maintenance fees are more reasonable than the fees at other timeshares, & so forth & so on right on down the line. 

We have never stayed at a WestGate timeshare -- & I'd say it's unlikely we ever will because the WestGate timeshares are mostly I-I & we are strictly RCI. 

Mainly via TUG-BBS, I also get the impression that the WestGate timeshare sellers typically are the most unrelenting & aggressive of just about any timeshare company, also that the WestGate "system" is designed to reinforce the _sell-sell-sell_ ambiance at virtually every turn.  Even so, the most obnoxious timeshare seller we've ever sat across those little tables from was not with WestGate, but with Consolidated Resorts Tahiti Village or some such out in Las Vegas.  

With the exception of 2 WestGate timeshares where we were impressively _wowed_ -- WestGate Lakes & WestGate Smoky Mountain Resort -- the rest of the WestGate timeshares we've seen left no memorable impression other than just plain-vanilla generic standard B-flat timeshare resorts, which needless to say beat the sox off Motel 6 & Super 8 even though if you've seen 1 you've pretty much seen'm all. 

Although I have no strong pro or con WestGate feelings of my own, I think I can understand why some of the folks right here on TUG-BBS find WestGate to be the timeshare company they love to hate.  The TUG-BBS counterweight to that seems to boil down to saying (in effect), "Well, WestGate isn't always that bad & besides some of the actual WestGate timeshares are very nice." 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Feb 26, 2008)

*Ham handed incompetents starts to describe the Wastegate way*



frenchieinme said:


> You keep referencing WWV where you own and state your displeasure at what you are experiencing.  You have every right to do that and I support you in this.  The point I am trying to make and it appears to be overlooked is your comment are carried to other Westgate resorts which is inherently unfair.  You can not paint everything with the same brush.  Because WWV has low reserves and can not do proper maintenance and because WWV is experiencing many poor quality in areas you have specifically referenced, it should not be carried out and assumed to be the same in all other Westgate resorts.
> 
> Maybe WWV is a Wastegate resort but I can assure you from my experiences at Westgate Lakes and the people (owners) I have come in contact with and interview, they have no clue as to what you are referencing in the Wastegate resort references.
> 
> ...



Our last stay at WWV was 2006 (the year after the $100 maid increase). We own in Building WWW - about 12 years old now.  

We have stayed at WGL as recently as 2005. We found it even less desirable than the older  WWV. There are a number of reasons. First the mid-rise buildings are not as "Florida" as the 2/3 story, spread out buildings that WWV and others were originally built with. The parking is horrendous, the buildings crammed in like future tenements, the units dark (although very large).  The furnishings in the last unit we were in (more on that in a moment) was showing serious signs of wear and the whole unit had a very sparse feel - mostly empty space and little as far as design touches.  What there is appears to be garish faux Italian rather than any type of Florida feel.  Of course now they are building the same ugly mid-rises at WWV so no area is safe. 

Second was the all-too-typical Wastegate experience. We arrive around 7PM - still get the rush to have a cart ride to the unit - we  decline (for once a mistake as it turns out) and simply get the key and the directions. We arrive in the general area (you can seemingly never park close at WGL) and take a 1st load of stuff to the door.  We insert the key - open the door and WHOA! There are people (a LOT of people seemed like a dozen or more) in OUR unit!  I don't know who is more surprised, us or the family we walked in on. It looked like they had been there for weeks (the place was a mess).  Back to the car. Back to the checkin. No one - not for the whole week of asking - can explain why we/they were given the wrong unit.  Another 20 minute wait while we get reassigned.  We park for the hike to the elevator - and this room is the great view of I-4. No thanks! The other was a pool side first floor. Last change. 5th floor - pool view - the so-so condition room above.  

The whole resort is like that. Broken ping pong table - kids climbing it like a gym and hitting the balls into the pool.  The old, 2 story buildings that Wastegate bought to build the ugly mid-rises are completely unkempt with Wastegate employees going in and out of them every day all day. (Note - in 2007 those where half torn down & half still being tortured as employee playgrounds).  Back to the unit the washer/dryer doesn't work - 4 repair calls and it still doesn't drain after the rinse cycle. Why don't they just switch it out ("We don't have any spares").  We have to go to another room to use a washer/dryer! There was plenty more but you get the idea.  

So the problems are lurking close to the surface at WGL just as they are at WVV.  The units are 5-6 years newer so they just aren't quite as run down yet. Give them a couple more years. Having been at WGL I can say it is every bit the resort operation WVV is. That is not a complement. 

Another example? Wastegate Bluetree. They have run that formerly nice resort into the ground - even throwing the Association out of the checkout area and making them build their own building. The heavy hand of Wastegate management is in full bloom at that resort.  Now I wouldn't even stay there again unless I could get the non-Wastegate side being run by SPM.  

Wastegate is a terrible operation - at least throughout Orlando. Maybe if you get away from there and out from under the Kings eye there are better resorts but I sure wouldn't risk it as they still are under the Wastegate banner. The weasel stripes don't change.  

I am always happy to hear someone does enjoy a Wastegate and is a satisfied owner. I sure hope they stay that way but the odds are heavily stacked against them long term.


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## JLB (Feb 26, 2008)

JFTR, I know which ones are RCI and which ones are II and which ones got degraded after WG bought them.

Not going through the list each time does not make what I say

_Then I would mention how WG has lost their RCI ratings, down from GC at one time to none now, and that, supposedly, those ratings are not because of politics, but based on comment cards, from RCI guests at WG. I would mention that after WG buys highly-rated resorts, the ratings go downhill._

incorrect.


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## timeos2 (Feb 26, 2008)

*Wastegate - Let us make your ranking something it never was before. Gone!*



JLB said:


> JFTR, I know which ones are RCI and which ones are II and which ones got degraded after WG bought them.
> 
> Not going through the list each time does not make what I say
> 
> ...



Bluetree - prior to Wastegate 5*.  4 years after Wastegate - unranked. 

WVV - Gold Crown 90's. RID 2002-2004. Unranked past 4 years. 

Yup. They know how to manage a resort alright. Right into no ranking (except the highly subjective and manipulated former 5* - they couldn't even keep THAT bogus award at Bluetree).


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## frenchieinme (Feb 26, 2008)

JLB said:


> JFTR,
> _Then I would mention how WG has lost their RCI ratings, down from GC at one time to none now, and that, supposedly, those ratings are not because of politics, but based on comment cards, from RCI guests at WG. I would mention that after WG buys highly-rated resorts, the ratings go downhill._
> 
> incorrect.



If your WG reference is to WWV & Blue Tree (I wish you would stop using WG to mean WWV, Blue Tree, Westgate Lakes, et.al., and start using their names like Wesgate Villas/WWV as this would be less confusing) I would tend to agree.  However, based on my own personal experience here at WGL with new furniture, new carpeting, 5 minute check in, less than 10 minute addressing of maintenance issues when they arise, clean/well kept environment, new water park going in, a multitude of kid activites for elementary & Jr High student aged kids, etc...  Heck, what more can one ask for?  

Again, what I am experiencing, my family experienced, my friends have experienced, the owners I have talked to experienced, etc... it is completely the opposite of what you guys are reporting about Westgate Lakes.  However, WWV, Blue Tree, etc..., that appears to be another story.

frenchieinme,


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## BKViking (Feb 27, 2008)

frenchieinme said:


> If your WG reference is to WWV & Blue Tree (I wish you would stop using WG to mean WWV, Blue Tree, Westgate Lakes, et.al., and start using their names like Wesgate Villas/WWV as this would be less confusing) I would tend to agree.  However, based on my own personal experience here at WGL with new furniture, new carpeting, 5 minute check in, less than 10 minute addressing of maintenance issues when they arise, clean/well kept environment, new water park going in, a multitude of kid activites for elementary & Jr High student aged kids, etc...  Heck, what more can one ask for?
> 
> Again, what I am experiencing, my family experienced, my friends have experienced, the owners I have talked to experienced, etc... it is completely the opposite of what you guys are reporting about Westgate Lakes.  However, WWV, Blue Tree, etc..., that appears to be another story.
> 
> frenchieinme,



We'll be staying at Westgate Lakes this year, and looking forward to it.  With that said, we own in Westgate Vacation Villas (QQQ building), and have actually had very good experience.  We've not seen any issues with furniture (ever), and while we did have a couple of maintenance issues (screen door was stuck/hinge busted, and some minor electric problem), maintenance took care of both within an hour of calling.  And it's just a 5 foot walk to a pool ... so as to the resort no complaints.

I do disagree about your statements about the downgrading of weeks, however.  While it's true that some weeks naturally trade better than others, we weren't sold it with that understanding, and that was not figured into our price (at least not officially).  We own week 16, which often ends up being a highly desired week b/c of spring breaks, but according to the calendar it's a value week (although I still don't understand if this applies to WGV based on the owner's manual - see the link posted above - but that it is what a reservation woman said to me last year).  This, for me, just doesn't seem right.  Going forward, differentiate the weeks, but for those of us who got suckered early on, we should be grandfathered in with more flexibility on trading power based on what we were told when we purchased, imho.


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## JLB (Feb 27, 2008)

In referring to the downgrading of ratings after WG takeovers, I include resorts in other areas, such as here in the Branson:  Grandvista Cedar Ridge, Grandvista Emerald Point, and Grandvista Branson Yacht Club.

CR has gone from GC to unrated.
EP has gone from GC to SC.
BYC has gone from GC to SC.

I may be mistaken, but I believe WG has 6 resorts in RCI, at least with their name now on the front of them, and also some others.  None of them are GCs.

Since we owned with CFI and went through the Seagull/DeHahn debacle of the early 90's, I am familiar with that, and, as an owner, I do not see how we benefitted from that turf battle, mostly the result of one man's ego.  

It (likely) lead to lower ratings, reduced trading power, ill treatment of RCI-affiliated guests (including us), and the eventual *demise of our home resort * in RCI's eyes.  Although we were happy to get out, we, essentially, lost just about everything.

And someone thinks I should not have the right to tell others!  

(Then what is this forum for?)


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## JLB (Feb 27, 2008)

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...gate-tc-orlando-my-timeshare-advice-plse.html


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## talkamotta (Feb 28, 2008)

BKViking said:


> OK. last year I had to use a different week and called up Westgate and was told I had to pay a $139 exchange fee (which I expected) plus a $500 fee because I was trading into a high season week.
> 
> I screamed bloody murder that when we bought the resort we were told all weeks were treated the same, etc., etc.  and demanded to speak to a supervisor.  After several minutes on hold, the woman came back and said a supervisor wasn't available, but they'd waive the season upgrade fee (I still had to pay the developer's exchange fee ... but I expected that).
> 
> ...



I dont know if thier policy has changed over the last year or 2 but they did ok by me.

This was an internal trade through Westgate:  I own week 43? anyway  its the last week in October.  Its a great week for me but may not be a high demand time.  I used my week for 2006 and 2007 and traded them both for Thanksgiving week 2006.  They only charged me one trading fee and they gave me my unit 2 bedroom/loft and the unit next to it.  It was perfect.  I had lots of people and they gave us high chairs extra pans for Thanksgiving dinner.  I was a Westgate happy camper. 

This year we are going to Cancun the first week of November, so I deposited my Westgate into II.  I had to get Westgate's reservation # which I did.  I then did a stupid thing.  In the reservation space I deposited it into II with II account #,  Westgate accepted it.  A couple of days later,  I noticed the error.  II said Westgate complains that II makes too many errors so now they require thier reservations number.  If Westgate accepts it then they are required to give an exchanger a week into thier resort.  I called Westgate and said that is the week they are giving II.  I was more concerned about  my error causing someone to have a terrible vacation without a room. Westgate and II said that would not happen. 
 Westgate said all  weeks exchange the same Not true:  For my week 43 I have received Marriott Grande Ocean at Hilton Head, Royal Mayan, etc.  The week that came up on my II account was in September.  No good exchanges come up.  Dont know if its the time Im searching for (doubt it)  if its the difference of weeks deposited, or if II is just having a lovers quarrell  with Westgate. 

Ive been pretty happy over the course of 12 years being a Westgate owner. I think the thing to remember is that things change, rules change.  Westgate isnt the only one that likes to change rules. II, RCI, airlines, ff miles, Wyndam. Companies will change the rules and game plan of any part they are able, we just need to know what battles we are willing to fight.


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## timeos2 (Feb 28, 2008)

*Just another "up yours" from Wastegate - Home of the Royal Shaft*



talkamotta said:


> Westgate said all  weeks exchange the same Not true:  For my week 43 I have received Marriott Grande Ocean at Hilton Head, Royal Mayan, etc.  The week that came up on my II account was in September.  No good exchanges come up.  Dont know if its the time Im searching for (doubt it)  if its the difference of weeks deposited, or if II is just having a lovers quarrell  with Westgate.



This was not due to your "mistake". it is the new policy for Wastegate NOT to deposit your DEEDED week/unit (what other week should you get? You OWN it!) but some "equivalent" deposit, which as you found ISN'T as good as what you own, which they pick out of the air.  

For anyone that thinks Wastegate isn't a crooked, deceptive, manipulating and owner unfriendly organization please explain this move.  Of course II is just as guilty as they shouldn't take anything except the deeded week - thats what you agree to in your II contract (I will deposit week(s) I OWN).  But II isn't about to do anything to stand up for members and of course Wastegate will use that to steamroll any rights you may have as an mere owner. Who are you to think you get what you own/pay for?  The KING knows better.

Yup. Wastegate is needlessly and unfairly picked on, aren't they?  They really are such nice folk. If you like predators. Nasty ones.  Better sleep with one eye open.


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## BKViking (Feb 28, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> This was not due to your "mistake". it is the new policy for Wastegate NOT to deposit your DEEDED week/unit (what other week should you get? You OWN it!) but some "equivalent" deposit, which as you found ISN'T as good as what you own, which they pick out of the air.
> 
> For anyone that thinks Wastegate isn't a crooked, deceptive, manipulating and owner unfriendly organization please explain this move.  Of course II is just as guilty as they shouldn't take anything except the deeded week - thats what you agree to in your II contract (I will deposit week(s) I OWN).  But II isn't about to do anything to stand up for members and of course Wastegate will use that to steamroll any rights you may have as an mere owner. Who are you to think you get what you own/pay for?  The KING knows better.
> 
> Yup. Wastegate is needlessly and unfairly picked on, aren't they?  They really are such nice folk. If you like predators. Nasty ones.  Better sleep with one eye open.



I'm with you 100% on this one.  I deposited my week 16 online with Westgate, and it showed up as week 43 on II.  On the one hand it _does_ give me 6 more months to use the week, but on the other hand, I'm not sure it has equivalent trading power, and the nice lady I spoke to at II wouldn't give me a straight answer.


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## JLB (Feb 29, 2008)

I believe the straight answer is that there is nothing particularly special about either Week 16 or 43.  IMHO, they are both sandwiched between what would be considered good-trading weeks.

We started with a CFI Week 23 in Orlando, promised to get us anywhere, any time, and it sucked.  RCI finally told us it was one week too early (for summer), despite being red.



BKViking said:


> I deposited my week 16 online with Westgate, and it showed up as week 43 on II.  On the one hand it _does_ give me 6 more months to use the week, but on the other hand, I'm not sure it has equivalent trading power, and the nice lady I spoke to at II wouldn't give me a straight answer.


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## BKViking (Feb 29, 2008)

And another thing - you have to confirm you are using YOUR week at Westgate, or you risk having them book it to someone else.  That's nonsense, IMHO.  If you own the week, and you've paid your fees and taxes for the year, you shouldn't have to notify them that you're using YOUR week.  It's YOURS.  If you want to waste it, it should be your option to do so.  On the other hand if you want to bank it with them or II, having a time to do so makes sense, so that they can market your week to others, but there should be no confirmation requirement (don't know that this has ever come up for anyone, but when reading it on the Westgate site, it kind of ticked me off ...)


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## BKViking (Feb 29, 2008)

JLB said:


> I believe the straight answer is that there is nothing particularly special about either Week 16 or 43.  IMHO, they are both sandwiched between what would be considered good-trading weeks.
> 
> We started with a CFI Week 23 in Orlando, promised to get us anywhere, any time, and it sucked.  RCI finally told us it was one week too early (for summer), despite being red.



Week 16 is a funny week, actually.  This year, it starts with Passover, some weeks it even falls during Easter.  Lots of high schools still have spring break that week, but colleges are pretty much all long done with their spring breaks, so theme parks end up being not nearly as crowded, and it can be nice for families.  For that reason, we actually like the week.  I think in the future, though, if we're not going to use it, we'll try to rent it out (which we've never done) instead of banking, and then use the rental towards a getaway or something.  Probably will end up costing me about the same.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 29, 2008)

*Truer Words Were Never Spoken.*




BKViking said:


> And another thing - you have to confirm you are using YOUR week at Westgate, or you risk having them book it to someone else.  That's nonsense, IMHO.  If you own the week, and you've paid your fees and taxes for the year, you shouldn't have to notify them that you're using YOUR week.  It's YOURS.  If you want to waste it, it should be your option to do so.


Shux, the main advantage of a fixed-week timeshare (i.e., non-points & non-floating) is the ability just to show up unannounced on check-in day and actually, um . . . er -- you know, ah . . . _check__ in_ . 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## BKViking (Feb 29, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> Shux, the main advantage of a fixed-week timeshare (i.e., non-points & non-floating) is the ability just to show up unannounced on check-in day and actually, um . . . er -- you know, ah . . . _check__ in_ .
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​




Exactly!  So saying you have to "confirm" is darn right silly.


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## talkamotta (Feb 29, 2008)

*Update on my exchange*

I called Westgate, last night and they said the department that could fix that was only open from 9-4 est.  So I called today..  Westgate said that they had no control over the value that II puts on my week.  I said that was fine I wanted the value that was given to my exact fixed week.  Week 43 not the first week in September.  She went on to say that they are all the same.  I told her that was not true.  I said for example I put in 4 months for Vegas and not one thing was available.  Previously I had received good trades for my week 43 and now the trading value not only was poor but non existent.  She said I would have to get with II that she had no control.  Again I told her that I had already talked with II and it is Westgate that confirms the week and gives the week. 

I had her conference II on the phone with them so we could get to the bottom and prevent any more run around for me.  II said with Westgate on the phone.  Westgate banks multiweeks and its thier policy not to give the week that I deposited. II went on to confirm that my week 43 did in fact have more trading value than the September week.   Mud on Westgate's face. She said that she couldnt do anything else now that it has been confirmed.  Again I told her that Westgate's policy change should not change the value of my week.  Thats what I bought and thats what I want.  

I asked for a manager, was put on hold for over 40 minutes with her checking back with me 2x.  Probably to see if I was still there.  The end result is that my cellphone battery died.  After 2 hours and 40 minutes of being on the phone.  I guess next time I will need to be on a land line. I need to write some letters.  Does anyone know of people I can write to?


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 29, 2008)

*Helen Waite ?*




talkamotta said:


> I asked for a manager, was put on hold for over 40 minutes with her checking back with me 2x.


Wasn't that WestGate manager formerly the closing agent over at ShowCase Resorts ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2008)

*Owning isn't owning in Wastegate speak*



talkamotta said:


> I called Westgate, last night and they said the department that could fix that was only open from 9-4 est.  So I called today..  Westgate said that they had no control over the value that II puts on my week.  I said that was fine I wanted the value that was given to my exact fixed week.  Week 43 not the first week in September.  She went on to say that they are all the same.  I told her that was not true.  I said for example I put in 4 months for Vegas and not one thing was available.  Previously I had received good trades for my week 43 and now the trading value not only was poor but non existent.  She said I would have to get with II that she had no control.  Again I told her that I had already talked with II and it is Westgate that confirms the week and gives the week.
> 
> I had her conference II on the phone with them so we could get to the bottom and prevent any more run around for me.  II said with Westgate on the phone.  Westgate banks multiweeks and its thier policy not to give the week that I deposited. II went on to confirm that my week 43 did in fact have more trading value than the September week.   Mud on Westgate's face. She said that she couldnt do anything else now that it has been confirmed.  Again I told her that Westgate's policy change should not change the value of my week.  Thats what I bought and thats what I want.
> 
> I asked for a manager, was put on hold for over 40 minutes with her checking back with me 2x.  Probably to see if I was still there.  The end result is that my cellphone battery died.  After 2 hours and 40 minutes of being on the phone.  I guess next time I will need to be on a land line. I need to write some letters.  Does anyone know of people I can write to?



The FL State DBMR who regulates timeshares and, of course, the King (who needs a good laugh every once and awhile. Picture the scene: "Look Sire - An owner wishing to get what they paid for!" "Balderdash Rippemoff - They'll eat cake if I serve it at a sales breakfast and step in horse manure if I lay it on their stoop on arrival. Raise the rates another $100 this year - that will show them who's Boss. And bring me more Wenches  - I need photos! Is Cher still alive?")  

This is a policy ripe for challenge and I hope you'll fight the battle. I just use RCI or SFX who only takes the week I own - Wastegate has no say.  But then RCI has had backbone in the past with the big guys like DVC while II is ready, willing and able to grovel before the King or any other developer they covet.


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## BKViking (Mar 1, 2008)

talkamotta said:


> I asked for a manager, was put on hold for over 40 minutes with her checking back with me 2x.  Probably to see if I was still there.  The end result is that my cellphone battery died.  After 2 hours and 40 minutes of being on the phone.  I guess next time I will need to be on a land line. I need to write some letters.  Does anyone know of people I can write to?



If you have the time to do it, call again and argue with a manager, you'll get some sort of concession, if not having them deposit your actual week.  

Last year, they deposited my week, but it was within the 60 days, so went in as a Flexchange, and they didn't deposit my villa, but something in Westgate Towers of an equivalent size.  Then, I thought it was some kind of mistake, and since it was the same size, didn't even think about it.  This year, when I saw a week 43 deposited, I knew something was up.  Not sure about the difference in trading power, but since it does give me an extra 6 months to use it (of course, I'll have to continue paying II's fees ....) I probably won't argue.


Also, last year when I tried to do an internal change and was told for the first time about the increased $500 because I was trading into a high season week (which again, is nonsense based on what I _purchased_) I argued with the rep, and then told her I wanted a manager.  She put me on hold for a long time, and told me the manager would tell me the same thing ... came back a few times to check if I was still there.  It was at least 20 minutes ... probably not quite an hour.  Anyway, she finally came back and said the manager was busy, but they would waive the $500 transfer fee for me!  (I did have to pay the $139, but I expected that ... and was ok with that .. even it should be less .... don't see how it costs that much when I was taking an _earlier_ week that they might have problems filling, and was freeing up my later week for them to rent/exchange to someone else, but still, that policy was well spelled out, so generally I'm ok with it.)

So, it's nonsense I had to spend that much time on the phone (hey I have other things to do with my life), but I did get results.  So, if you have the time, I recommend calling again.

The trouble is, I really do like our resort, and have basically always had a good time, but the sales and reservations people just make me have trouble with the company.


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## JLB (Mar 1, 2008)

That is SOP phone procedure at Creepy Groper Vacation Village.   

If you don't have a specific person at a specific extension, you will likely never get anyone who can hlep you, with anything.

But, phone procedure is just on par with other things.


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## frenchieinme (Mar 1, 2008)

*More reports of happy owners from WGL...*



BKViking said:


> So, it's nonsense I had to spend that much time on the phone (hey I have other things to do with my life), but I did get results.  So, if you have the time, I recommend calling again.
> 
> The trouble is, I really do like our resort, and have basically always had a good time, but the sales and reservations people just make me have trouble with the company.



Now we a zeroing in on specifics.  What one needs to do is assess if the negatives encountered overweigh the positives and this is a personal choice.  Based on the above quote it was not while for others it is.

It has been cold evenings this past 2 night so yesterday I went to check the heated pools and the cold evenings was too much for them to maintain their usual heat.  They were not as warm as usual but slowly getting there.  So this morning I went out to check a couple of pools to see which was warmer so as we could go there.

I encountered a couple of owners and an exchanger.  In talking with them I asked them specifically about Westgate's about exchanging and the westgate support staff.  These 3 had not encountered any negatives except an occasional maintenance report which we all know is a reuse to sell more.  I asked if they went and 2 said no and 1 said yes.  As for me I am here for 2 weeks and scheduled mine for this past Thursday which is my 2nd week here and I was mysteriously sick (yeah, if you believe that uh :hysterical: ) and could not make my appointment (darn  )!!!

I further asked these 3 their overall experience basing all their experiences with WGL to date on a 0 (bad) to 10 (excellent).  Of the three, I got two 9s and 1 was 9.5.  When asked what WGL could do to make things better, all three said get rid of the sales staff.

frenchieinme


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## JLB (Mar 1, 2008)

Seems like the alleged groping and the alleged flashing by Mr. S took place at the alleged spa allegedly at WL  

Ah, the memories that must evoke.


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## frenchieinme (Mar 2, 2008)

*True but...*



JLB said:


> Seems like the alleged groping and the alleged flashing by Mr. S took place at the alleged spa allegedly at WL
> 
> Ah, the memories that must evoke.



Probably did and from what I have heard it cost him $5.2 million, correct?  What does that have to do with myself and others enjoying themselves at WGL?  By the way, met 5 more owners at the pool today who feel WGL is top notch in all respects.  They also have been owners since pre-construction and 1 only for the past 2 years.

Moreover, based on the above comment of yours, are we to hold Paris Hilton's lifestyle against the Hilton timeshare owners also?  Of course not and neither should Mr. S's shameful, inexcusable conduct be held against his timeshare owners.  I doubt very highly he can pass it off as a tax deduction.  He has made millions and now he is $5.2 million poorer.  It was a foolish, shameful thing he did I will grant you.  It has not affected our enjoying WGL to the fullest.

On a final cute note which may or may not interest you.  But as a grand-parent it may.  My grandson returned to school and was told he had a tan.  He said he had gone to visit his pepere (french for grandpa) in FL.  He told them he went to Disney, Universal & Sea World as well as Fun Spot.  When asked by the teacher what he liked best in his Orlando visit to his grandparents, he answered sitting by the pool with my pepere enjoying blue slushies and playing miniature golf at the resort with pepere and memere.   I thought that was cute and revealing from the mouth of an 8 year old.  Just thought I would share that with you.

frenchieinme


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## JLB (Mar 2, 2008)

$5.4.

Everything.

We all make moral decisions when to spend our money, deciding who we give it to.  It bothers some.  It doesn't bother others.

As far as a word like _pepere_, when considering Mr. S, the temptation to comment on that is so obvious that I don't even have to.  Folks already have gone there, without my comment.  



frenchieinme said:


> Probably did and from what I have heard it cost him $5.2 million, correct?  What does that have to do with myself and others enjoying themselves at WGL?


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## talkamotta (Mar 2, 2008)

frenchieinme said:


> Probably did and from what I have heard it cost him $5.2 million, correct?  What does that have to do with myself and others enjoying themselves at WGL?  By the way, met 5 more owners at the pool today who feel WGL is top notch in all respects.  They also have been owners since pre-construction and 1 only for the past 2 years.
> 
> Moreover, based on the above comment of yours, are we to hold Paris Hilton's lifestyle against the Hilton timeshare owners also?  Of course not and neither should Mr. S's shameful, inexcusable conduct be held against his timeshare owners.  I doubt very highly he can pass it off as a tax deduction.  He has made millions and now he is $5.2 million poorer.  It was a foolish, shameful thing he did I will grant you.  It has not affected our enjoying WGL to the fullest.
> 
> ...



Ive been an owner of Westgate Vacation Villas for 12 years now.  Did the stupid thing and bought from the developer.  Of course before TUG.  Over the course of the years, I dont feel bad about buying Westgate.  Many good memories.  Love the resort and my unit.  My kids have enjoyed my unit at my week more than they enjoyed Marriott.  My grandkids, too, dont spend all thier time at the parks,  we will usually spend at least 4 days doing something for part of the day (like going to the beach or city walk) and the rest of the day at the resort.  Parks can get very expensive if you are talking about 10 (and the last time 22 people in 2 units).  My boys would rather go to a football game than to Disney.  Whatever makes you happy.......

Thier sales staff has had many complaints as being an irritant.  Not to me, I can say "no" and they leave me alone.  They still arent the worst in sales tactics only one of the worst.  The problem Im having is with thier *changing of the rules in the middle of the game *and my not having or at least having to fight with Westgate for my rights.  Im having a problem with a management company under the direction of thier owner and king. 

My previous complaint after checking into thier "Owners Guide"  states that "Due to the supply of Developer's Exchange being in short demand, beginning in 2006, Westgate will instigate new regulations for Developer Exchanging.....on and on"   What it does is reduces my value of my unit when I exchange thru II.  Where does Westgate  Developer get off changing the rules when I have a fixed week and unit and I am depositing what I bought.  This is only one example of why people (previous and current owners) have a problem with Westgate.  Its not with your buying a unit and staying and enjoying your vacation.  The main complaints is with the higher management and the sales staff.


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2008)

*Out with the King. In with Owner Control.*



talkamotta said:


> Where does Westgate  Developer get off changing the rules when I have a fixed week and unit and I am depositing what I bought.  This is only one example of why people (previous and current owners) have a problem with Westgate.  Its not with your buying a unit and staying and enjoying your vacation.  The main complaints is with the higher management and the sales staff.



Exactly. If the King would have simply built, sold and moved on (as Florida LAW requires) the actual resorts would be better for it and the complaints would be far less (someone always has a gripe).  But no. They have to hang on to total control, the management (which is not uncommon unfortunately but not usually with this level of owner disdain) and then goes a step that few others have even attempted - claim the ability to change the very core of the rights you purchased! 

So, until this megalomaniac and his trainees / disciples are somehow removed from any control, the Wastegate banner will fly in full force.  Any owner that thinks they won't be affected long term is sadly mistaken.  They may not have stepped on your rights yet but, sure as the Salesroom will open bright and early tomorrow, they will. Meanwhile let the enlightened owners ty to prevent others from falling into this trap.  And hopefully fix the problem somewhere down the road.


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## dcire (Mar 2, 2008)

talkamotta said:


> Ive been an owner of Westgate Vacation Villas for 12 years now.  Did the stupid thing and bought from the developer.  Of course before TUG.  Over the course of the years, I dont feel bad about buying Westgate.  Many good memories.  Love the resort and my unit.  My kids have enjoyed my unit at my week more than they enjoyed Marriott.  My grandkids, too, dont spend all thier time at the parks,  we will usually spend at least 4 days doing something for part of the day (like going to the beach or city walk) and the rest of the day at the resort.  Parks can get very expensive if you are talking about 10 (and the last time 22 people in 2 units).  My boys would rather go to a football game than to Disney.  Whatever makes you happy.......
> 
> Thier sales staff has had many complaints as being an irritant.  Not to me, I can say "no" and they leave me alone.  They still arent the worst in sales tactics only one of the worst.  The problem Im having is with thier *changing of the rules in the middle of the game *and my not having or at least having to fight with Westgate for my rights.  Im having a problem with a management company under the direction of thier owner and king.
> 
> My previous complaint after checking into thier "Owners Guide"  states that "Due to the supply of Developer's Exchange being in short demand, beginning in 2006, Westgate will instigate new regulations for Developer Exchanging.....on and on"   What it does is reduces my value of my unit when I exchange thru II.  Where does Westgate  Developer get off changing the rules when I have a fixed week and unit and I am depositing what I bought.  This is only one example of why people (previous and current owners) have a problem with Westgate.  Its not with your buying a unit and staying and enjoying your vacation.  The main complaints is with the higher management and the sales staff.



What are Developer's Exchanges?


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## JLB (Mar 2, 2008)

Why did Mr. S buy a golf course/resort, over in Haines City?  (joke)


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 2, 2008)

*Like Father Like Son ?*




timeos2 said:


> So, until this megalomaniac and his trainees / disciples are somehow removed from any control, the Wastegate banner will fly in full force.


David A. Siegel must be getting on in years.  When the day comes that he retires from the business -- or, if he never retires, when the day comes that he assumes room temperature -- will the younger generation follow the same backward & unenlightened biz policy ? 

Or do you suppose the next Mr. Siegel who takes over will see the light ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​​​


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## timeos2 (Mar 3, 2008)

*Wastegate Rulers - Not a kind thought among them*



AwayWeGo said:


> David A. Siegel must be getting on in years.  When the day comes that he retires from the business -- or, if he never retires, when the day comes that he assumes room temperature -- will the younger generation follow the same backward & unenlightened biz policy ?
> 
> Or do you suppose the next Mr. Siegel who takes over will see the light ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​​​



I believe there are Princes or at least Court Jesters in waiting. Knowing how second generations tend to be even more spoiled (they didn't even earn it but had it handed to them) if anything it may get worse.  The upside is that often the next in line manage to run things into the ground (no real talent and they take big chances) so once the change begins the end may be in sight.  Owners can only hope those days come soon.


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## JLB (Mar 3, 2008)

According to the evidence, it is *father who wanted to take over where son left off. * The sexual advances, groping, exposing, and pinning up against the wall, took place while the victim was dating the next-in-line.    

Also, it was while dad was still married, going through the divorce, seeking advice on dating and fashion from the gropee.  Then, according to evidence, it continued during the new marriage, and included advances from the new wife.  

Video at 6:00.   



AwayWeGo said:


> Or do you suppose the next Mr. Siegel who takes over will see the light ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​​​


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 4, 2008)

*A Lasting Monument -- Virtually Speaking.*

TUG-BBS friends & clients & admirers & detractors of The King can custom-design tasteful & appropriate (virtual) monuments to his memory when he passes on, if they are so inclined. 

Click here. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## JLB (Mar 4, 2008)

Oh, has he?  :whoopie:   

That will be his next defense, to play the dead card.   

Hey, why not, it got whatshisname off the hook down there in Houston.  The Enron guy.

BTW. I know his name . . . I just don't wanna say it in the same thread with Mr. S.  



AwayWeGo said:


> TUG-BBS friends & clients & admirers & detractors of The King can custom-design tasteful & appropriate (virtual) monuments to his memory when he passes on, if they are so inclined.
> 
> Click here.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## talkamotta (Mar 5, 2008)

dcire said:


> What are Developer's Exchanges?



I had never heard of it before either. I was quoting the manual, and of course they, meaning WGV makes the rules for the manual.   I thought when you bought a week and decided to exchange it in to one of the many trading companies, it would be called an owner's exchange. They also rent out weeks so that bucket might not be so good on the better trading weeks. 

I dont know if II or any other exchange companies pays a percentage of the rental exchange to the developer?  Dont know if the developer just deposits a mass amount of weeks into II (for example) and how they are compensated.  In this case WG is big time in giving time spent in the resort for the sales presentation (they need popular weeks).  So I think our better trading weeks will go in that pot and in my case I get to trade with prime time hurricane/non school time/lower trading value week than what I bought.  How convenient that good exchanges go into the "Developer's Exchanges" and II gets crap weeks. 

I agree with the prevous posters saying that control should be given back to the owners and a management company.  I dont think thats going to happen in my lifetime.


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## JLB (Mar 5, 2008)

But if a group of owners wanted to--take back their resort(s) from the sleazy, slimey, scammy scumbags--there couldn't be a better time than now. 

Go for it, all of you that love your resort(s) and would like to see them lifted from the cloud of perversion.

Someone has to start the movement, and I can't think of better people than y'all, as you have done a fine job of defending them against the warnings of a couple of Chicken Little (boy, that brings back a memory  ) fuddy-duddies here.



talkamotta said:


> I agree with the prevous posters saying that control should be given back to the owners and a management company.  I dont think thats going to happen in my lifetime.


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## timeos2 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Throw the bums out*



JLB said:


> But if a group of owners wanted to--take back their resort(s) from the sleazy, slimey, scammy scumbags--there couldn't be a better time than now.
> 
> Go for it, all of you that love your resort(s) and would like to see them lifted from the cloud of perversion.
> 
> Someone has to start the movement, and I can't think of better people than y'all, as you have done a fine job of defending them against the warnings of a couple of Chicken Little (boy, that brings back a memory  ) fuddy-duddies here.



Jim - I for one am not afraid to take on incompetent to corrupt management as I have been a part of such actions in the past.  In the case of Wastegate they are so underhanded that, in watching carefully for over a decade, I've never seen a ballot/proxy go out to owners to elect the HOA Board.  I don't even know who makes up the Board (although the old list I have includes the King and other suspect names).  It's hard enough to rally owners if there is at least minimal access to them but nearly impossible when the developer holds ham fisted, total control as Wastegate does.  Why the State hasn't clamped down on this obvious violation I don't know but they tend to need a push to do anything. I'm sure Wastegate is playing that for all its worth. If anyone starts a push to get real owners in control I'm there.  Yesterday.


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## JLB (Mar 5, 2008)

Of course, John, owners have no voice, HOAs are hand-picked scumcrats and CFI Management runs the resorts.

We all know the, "Mr. S cannot do that because he does not control that HOA," line they feed you is pure BS.  

Still, now is the best time ever to rasie a ruckus, if a person was so inclined.


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## frenchieinme (Mar 7, 2008)

*Is this needed in productive debating of issues???*



JLB said:


> ... as you have done a fine job of defending them against the warnings of a couple of Chicken Little (boy, that brings back a memory  ) fuddy-duddies here....



It's a shame when people need to revert to name calling when trying to make a point.

Is this really necessary?  Why does one need to revert to name calling to make a point?   Have you ever been refered to in such a way by the referred to Chicken Littles & fuddy-duddies?  Why can't people simply discuss in a rational, respectful way when exchanging a difference of ideas?  

Come on now; chill out; get a life my friend..:hysterical:


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## JLB (Mar 7, 2008)

So, now we are _resorting_ (get it?) to criticizing me for calling myself a name? 

:rofl:


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## frenchieinme (Mar 7, 2008)

*Let's act...*

There should be no name calling period.  If one can not treat himself/herself with respect, how can one treat others with respect?  Discussions of topics should be adult like and respectful all the while recognizing the fact there are different opinkions out there.  RESPECT---It starts with oneself and then spreads.  That is all I am saying.

We don't want discussions going the way the discussions of politics went.  Remember that?  In the discussion of the topic, contributors loss sight of respectfulness and it did nothing to the topic but demean it and finally get banned outright.  :ignore: 

Just MHO, of course. 

By the way JLB, I am returning for another week at WGL as my daughter from TN with our grand-daughter (who were there also in Feb) are bringing my son-in-law with them.  He is an avid golfer.  Any suggestions as to where he can golf inexpensively with the most perks and bennies?  Any suggestions as I read along the way you liked to golf and probably know something which may prove to be beneficial.  Why reinvent the wheel so as to speak.

frenchieinme


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## JLB (Mar 7, 2008)

Maybe you can play on Mr. S's course over in Haines City.  Just be careful if Mr. and Mrs. S. join you and yours.  According to testimony . . . nah, I'll let you read it yourself.

Sure, I get discount Orlando emails twice a week.  Go to golf18orlando.com.

I really enjoy Remington for All You Can, Hit and Play for one fee.  I'd give you the link but I'm not on my computer.

And . . . no one was calling anyone names.  I referred to those of us who have been warning about the slime and sleaze at WG as Chicken Little, who imagined the sjy was falling, because of those who have countered saying things are all just Okey Dokey there. 



frenchieinme said:


> By the way JLB, I am returning for another week at WGL as my daughter from TN with our grand-daughter (who were there also in Feb) are bringing my son-in-law with them.  He is an avid golfer.  Any suggestions as to where he can golf inexpensively with the most perks and bennies?  frenchieinme


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## dcire (Mar 8, 2008)

Well, well...After reading all these posts regarding WG it would appear that some of our fellow Tuggers are turning on one another.  Come on now folks, let's remember our freedom of speech rights and the fact that we are all entitled to our own opinions.  Some of us (including me) have had a few negative experiences with WG.  So, as long is there is no profanity being used we should respect others right to express THEIR views on issues that have affected them.  Remember, it is only someone's personal opinion.  We don't all have to agree with it!  Let's all continue to read and digest all this information in a positive way as to enhance all of our timeshare usage.


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## london (Mar 8, 2008)

*Freedom of Speech*



dcire said:


> Well, well...After reading all these posts regarding WG it would appear that some of our fellow Tuggers are turning on one another.  Come on now folks, let's remember our freedom of speech rights and the fact that we are all entitled to our own opinions.  Some of us (including me) have had a few negative experiences with WG.  So, as long is there is no profanity being used we should respect others right to express THEIR views on issues that have affected them.  Remember, it is only someone's personal opinion.  We don't all have to agree with it!  Let's all continue to read and digest all this information in a positive way as to enhance all of our timeshare usage.



Well said.......with over 50 posts.....Westgate appears to be a continuing saga for many.

I have not seen any other timeshare or timeshare group garner so much interest on TUG.


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## JLB (Mar 9, 2008)

Actually, I don't see that anyone has_ intentionally_ criticized anyone or given them behavior lectures.  

When you say a lot of words, you are bound to make a bad choice occassionally.  I'm not one to sit, lying in wait, perched on every post, watching for someone to make an occassional poor word choice.

Like, in post 55, Frenchie used the word _revert_, when referring to name-calling.  Of course,_ revert_ implies that there had been previous name-calling, and I know he didn't intend that meaning.  _Revert_ and _resort_ are similar-sounding.

He also made an innocent mistake when he thought my use of _Chicken Little _ was name-calling.  It wasn't.  It was just a reference to how some have reacted to those of us who have been warning of the slime and sleaze in WG marketing.  Everyone knows that Chicken Little was not heeded when he claimed the sky was falling, similar to warning about WG over the years, that some choose not to heed it because they, personally have not experienced it . . . yet.

Or was that the boy who cried Wolf?  

Well, either works.

Except now a court of law has gotten involved, and has decided that the sky really was falling, or at least the sky above Mr. S. or they have declared that Mr. S. really is a wolf, whichever anecdote you prefer.   

For those of us who have been here awhile, _Chicken Little_ also has a second, _tongue-in-cheek_ meaning, not related to WG in any way.   

The point is that no one has called anyone any names.

So, I don't hold anything against Frenchie. He just made an innocent mistake.

Wow, _deja vu_ all over again on TUG.  First, you post.  Then you have to post again, to explain what your first post meant, because someone did not get it.  Then you have to post again to defend what your first two posts meant.  And so on . . .


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## Jollyhols (Apr 4, 2008)

I posted about this topic ages ago.  Our week was sold when 'all weeks were equal' and some people seemed to think I was not telling the truth - how could my week 44 be equivalent to a busy week?  But I am afraid this was really how it was sold to us.  The system was changed way _after_ we purchased with no consultation and we only found out when we tried to exchange into March and were told we'd have to pay an upgrade fee.  Apparently it was in the Westgator mag but despite repeated checking that they have the correct address for us, we haven't received a copy after about the first 2 or 3 after we purchased.

PS for the week we wanted to go to Orlando in March, it worked out a lot cheaper to book a package (flights, car, Westgate studio) through Expedia!

Forgot to mention - even worse - that we originally bought a June week, but found we had to travel mostly in November so did a straight swap with Westgate.  They didn't warn us we were swapping for a lesser week but then at that time they were still saying they were all equal.  I did try to argue with them but ran out of steam.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 4, 2008)

*Mostly WestGate But Not Just WestGate.*




london said:


> I have not seen any other timeshare or timeshare group garner so much interest on TUG.


SunTerra generated some lively back & forth there for a while.  

That has diminished greatly since SunTerra's takeover by Diamond Resorts & the conversion of Club SunTerra to T.H.E. Club. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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