# HGVC Sales Practices Changing?



## ricoba (Feb 12, 2010)

Is it just me, or is anyone else (especially old timers here) noticing there are a lot more complaints regarding Hilton sales practices than there used to be?

It just seems to me we are having a lot more newbies come on here and complain about misleading and aggressive sales practices by HGVC sales reps.

I for one know that I won't ever go back to a HGVC presentation in Vegas due to the very high pressure, whereas this summers "update" at the GW @ HHV, was very laid back and mellow.

I used to be thankful that Hilton wasn't going down the sleezy pitching heat sales pitch...but it appears that that may be changing?:annoyed: 

Anybody else notice this?


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## travelbugs (Feb 12, 2010)

We were at a presentation at the HGVC on the Strip last weekend.  It was the usual amount of pressure, nothing special.  We managed to negotiate 10,000 bonus points for our purchase of 3400 pts. and thought we were doing well........until I checked this board, ebay, redweek, etc.  Needless to say, we rescinded last night and are looking to buy at two properties for less than the price of one!  Anyhow, everyone was nice, but we were cracking-up at the drama/theatrics of them fussing over the 10,000 points, as we're sure they make big offers to everyone if pushed enough.


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## DEROS (Feb 12, 2010)

It could be that more and more people is finding Tugbbs.  When you google "HGVC Problems", Tug BBS was in the top three finds.


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## jeg (Feb 12, 2010)

We usually do our updates in Hawaii and they have always been very relaxed with no pressure.


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## Talent312 (Feb 12, 2010)

AFAIK, HGVC uses the same playbook that every other TS sales office does, but the degree to which they follow the script may depend on the local ambience (i.e. Hawaii) or the manager's attitude.


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## wilmetted (Feb 13, 2010)

As a current owner we visited the Grand Waikiikian.  During the owner update they looked in the system and noticed how little we paid for our 7,000 points they realized that we were not going to pay full price for buying more points and we were in and out pretty quickly.


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## danb (Feb 14, 2010)

*HGVC sales tactics in very poor taste*

Not having checked TUG much recently this article is perfect timing to a call from our son & DIL yesterday from NY. The were so upset over the treatment they recieved by the sales rep. in NY that they are writing a letter to HGVC. The young rep came right out with his first statement that he didn't want his or their time wasted and he said he knew they were there for the 25K honors points. In fact they were looking to upgrade. The own in Vegas and bought from the developer. We are elite members and his inlaws also bought HGVC. This guy went so far as to talk down about people who buy in Orlando. He claimed to have over $200k in time shares!! He also stated that the NY property was 80% sold and when sold out, us mere common folk would not be able to trade into NY. He also stated that NY was for people who only wanted to take upscale vacations. I have been to a few presentations and was never treated this way. In reality my son and DIL  have great incomes and could afford NY. The sales persons assumption that they couldn't afford NY was highly insulting to them and they will follow up with a letter to managment. 
We bought both of out units from the developer before finding TUG. I will try to convince them to buy resale and avoid this kind of treatment in the future. 
I just wonder if the new owners realize this or is it a new sales tactic.


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## jjking42 (Feb 14, 2010)

we had  a bad presentation a few years ago in Orlando. We complained here on tug and I got a personal email from hgvc management.

They do care and they do watch Tug

So if you have a bad saleman be sure to let them know.


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## potterew (Feb 14, 2010)

I went to Hawaii on a package and decided not to buy.  They "so called manager" came in and stopped just short of telling me that I had no respect because they sent me on the big vacation and I wouldn't buy from them.  He brought up several times how much they spent to get me there and the I should reward them.  He didn't care that they called me 3 times before I finally bought the package to get them to stop calling.

I own 2 weeks at Marriott and their sales pitch is much more laid back and not pressurizing.


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## DEROS (Feb 14, 2010)

I had two experience from salespeople.  The first one was nice and very friendly.  The second was rude compared to the first.

Now the story:  (HHV presentation) When we went to the sales presentation, our salesperson was surprised that we were not Japanese.  He approached us thinking we were Japanese but when he started talking Japanese, I told him we didn't speak or was Japanese.  However, it was the most pleasant 90min presentation.  When it was time for us to leave, I guess the manager or someone took over.  Talk about hard press court.  First thing that came out of his mouth was, are you ready to buy.  Wasted an extra 30 mins of my time.  Funny thing was that he did not want to give me our rewards, because we did not give him our full attention during the presentation (we had our 3 year old son with us), which was about $100 certificate.  The joke on him was, the first sales person gave it to me from the beginning of the presentation.  He seemed mad when we told him we already got it.

The moral of the story:  Try to get the rewards up front.


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## timeos2 (Feb 14, 2010)

*They can turn on you in a heartbeat*



potterew said:


> I went to Hawaii on a package and decided not to buy.  They "so called manager" came in and stopped just short of telling me that I had no respect because they sent me on the big vacation and I wouldn't buy from them.  He brought up several times how much they spent to get me there and the I should reward them.  He didn't care that they called me 3 times before I finally bought the package to get them to stop calling.



Isn't it amazing how they beg and plead with you to take the trip and attend the "update" yet somehow you plotted to take the money and run when you (wisely) decide that retail purchase makes no sense. It's all too common in the arsenal of guilt trips they use to try to reel in retail buyers. 



potterew said:


> I own 2 weeks at Marriott and their sales pitch is much more laid back and not pressurizing.



You may find things have changed there too as the economic crisis has hit the timeshare world harder than most. Desperation doesn't even start to cover what the developers are feeling. Multiply the feeling you have as a potential single seller of a week or more as you watch resale prices hit all time lows by a factor of the hundreds or thousands of weeks a developer has to sell. Then having your personal income depend on getting a buyer to bite at a price you know (and desperately hope the sucker, er, buyer doesn't know) is thousands or even tens of thousands more than they could easily buy for at resale. It is a pressure packed way to live.  It shows in the way they are treating owners (unrestrained fee increases to maintain corporate income) and the continuing reports of increasing sales pressure from just about every retail seller. Those that once were considered "low key" aren't anymore.


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## Talent312 (Feb 14, 2010)

DEROS said:


> The moral of the story:  Try to get the rewards up front.



Most of these sales-shops have a gift-desk that you don't get to see until the tag-team has finished insulting your intelligence and you've agreed that yes, you are an idiot (or at least developmentally challenged)... something I have no problem doing.


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## ricoba (Feb 14, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> You may find things have changed there too as the economic crisis has hit the timeshare world harder than most. Desperation doesn't even start to cover what the developers are feeling. Multiply the feeling you have as a potential single seller of a week or more as you watch resale prices hit all time lows by a factor of the hundreds or thousands of weeks a developer has to sell. Then having your personal income depend on getting a buyer to bite at a price you know (and desperately hope the sucker, er, buyer doesn't know) is thousands or even tens of thousands more than they could easily buy for at resale. It is a pressure packed way to live.  It shows in the way they are treating owners (unrestrained fee increases to maintain corporate income) and the continuing reports of increasing sales pressure from just about every retail seller. Those that once were considered "low key" aren't anymore.



This is what I was wondering as well when I posted the original question.

Are the hotel chains becoming more like the independent timeshares when it comes to pitching heat?

With the economy the way it is it only seems to make sense to me that even the hotel chains are having to resort from being the laid back sales programs that they were during better economic times????


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## jestme (Feb 14, 2010)

The other thing we may be seeing is the independant timeshare sales people are leaving there because of the declining commissions for sales people and joining the hotel chain timeshare environments bringing their "timeshare sales experience" with them. Maybe Blackstone has hired a bunch more independant sales people figuring the more salespeople you have, the more sales you will get. Timeshare salespeople aren't known for their morals, so getting them to jump ship wouldn't be tough. 
With the new Park Soleil, the new tower in Vegas, the Waikikian and Kings Land, Blackstone is currently sitting on a ton of inventory, and carrying costs.


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## REW (Feb 14, 2010)

*Hilton Isn't the Same Since Purchased by Blackstone Group*



ricoba said:


> Is it just me, or is anyone else (especially old timers here) noticing there are a lot more complaints regarding Hilton sales practices than there used to be?
> 
> It just seems to me we are having a lot more newbies come on here and complain about misleading and aggressive sales practices by HGVC sales reps.
> 
> ...



As most of the participants in this bulletin board know, the Blackstone Group now owns Hilton.  The Hilton family sold-out at the top of the market while the Blackstone Group acquired crushing amounts of debt to make the acquisition.  In the worst lodging economy since the two years following 9/11/01, my impression is that Blackstone is desperate to do whatever it can to wring every dime out of Hilton's operations including its Vacation Club division.  It is no longer above high-pressure tactics.  

Also, the Blackstone management change has resulted in a cultural shift at Hilton.  Hilton's HQ had always been in Beverly Hills.  In 2009, Blackstone moved most of the company to the Washington, DC area.  While HVC headquarters remains in Orlando, Florida, the overall flavor and direction of the company has changed.  It is possible that even if the economy gets better, Hilton will not return to its traditional marketing approach.


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## yumdrey (Feb 14, 2010)

I came back from a Starwood TS property about 2 weeks ago, and they NEVER invited me to an "owner update".
One day (the second day of my vacation) I asked them to make a reservation for a restaurant in Harborside, and they asked "Were you invited for an owner update? You will get free starwood points, etc..." and I said, "I just want a reservation for dinner tonight for 3 people (it was a weekend)". And they asked my name, my owned resorts, etc... and finally they retrieved my information and found out that I bought all their resorts by resale.
They changed their face instantly, and said, "Ok, I will make a reservation for you" and then called the restaurant and made a reservation and said "You are *NOT* qualified for an owner's update, but we made a restaurant  reservation for you".
I didn't like their "tone" of speaking, but left them alone because I didn't want any "owner's update" during my vacation.
I think many hotel brand timeshares are getting smart, and find out their way of selling.
I am GLAD that they didn't bother my vacation, but I also thought that they (sales weasles) know the tricks too.


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## TavandKelly (Feb 24, 2010)

I did a presentation in LV and the $1600 week in hawaii deal (forgot their term) and have to say that the attitude was completely different at each resort.  LV had a churn and burn feel, and the lady there seemed pretty desparate to make the sale.  The guy in Hawaii actually did a great job and was not pushy at all... but managed to sucker me into buying a EOY at HHV.  

I logged onto TUG the day after we bought, and went to their office to recind. They wasted about 10 minutes, but were a LOT nicer about cancelling that I expected. 

To summarize, it probably depends where you're touring, and vegas is a desparate place.


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## judgerey (Feb 24, 2010)

We just had an owners update at Parc Soleil last week.  Aside from three misstatements, the tenor of the presentations were not pushy at all.  We were upfront about the fact that we bought 2 of our 3 properties through resale, and when we told the salesman the price we paid, he said, "you should buy 10 more at that price."  He then turned to the benefits of elite status, which we know you can't get through resale, offered us a couple of upgrades on our original purchase through HGVC, and when we said no, we were on our way with our discounted Disney tix.  All in all, aside from the three misstatements (they are the subject of a separate post), not a bad experience.


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## chester1122 (Mar 4, 2010)

*hawaii owners update*

We just did the hawaii owner update on the big island as we were interested in what was happening with kingsland.  They have moved the presentaion centre to the Hilton Hotel.  

Kohala suites is in close out, and kingsland is well on its way to having the second phase sold out.  I saw the sales sheet and couldn't believe it.

I was offered a 2 bedroom christmas week every other year at Kohala suites for $27000 plus 25000 HGVC bonus points.  We didn't bite, but thought that was an interesting offer.  (Of course I was offered the 10600 at kingsland first 48000k)

My sales agent was actually great but as we already have a wack of points we clearly were not interested. So found out what we wanted and took the $100 HH dollars and had a nice diner out.


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## airshane (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi - New Member Here - I was doing my research on timeshares, and I really think it's something I want to do, but maybe right now isn't the time.  I saw this thread and felt I had to comment.

Anyway, back in September of 2008 I came to Hilton Hawaiin Village using points I'd accumulated from work.  I took the presentation tour, and at the time my finances weren't exactly where I wanted them to be in order to justify the purchase.  The presentation was quick, and I was out of there in less than two hours.  The main reason I was there was for the 20,000 HHonors points anyway, and the girl knew it.

I took the tour again this month as I was back here again, only this time on a paid trip for business.  (I know, it's a rough life).  The sales has certainly changed.  During 08 when I stated I was not interested due to the cost, etc, the discussion ended after the second "bonus" offer of a free airline ticket on AA.  Having been through a high pressure Wyndham pitch, this was a breeze.  I discounted it because I was Diamond, and figured they don't wanna hack off their top tier customers.

This was not the case this time around.  I was acknowledge for being Diamond the third year in a row, but after that I felt like I was back at Wyndham.  The pressure was on.  

I have to admit, there are some aspects of the program that are really appealing to me.  Specifically the cash rates aspects.  More than anything this swayed me and I succumb to the pressure, signed my name on the dotted line, and actually felt pretty good about the purchase.  Then I started looking at resell and decided that I'd be better off going that route when I felt the time was really right.  Call it buyer's remorse, but I had it.  

During the sales, a 7 year loan was discussed due to the lower amount and my desire to avoid long term debt.  They wouldn't do a five year.  I really didn't care as I planned to pay it off in a year or two anyway.  My finances are almost where I want them, but I figured I'd do the American thing and spend money I don't have for a while.  Then when I reviewed the paperwork I found I actually had a 10 year loan with an admin fee for the credit card payments.  I ran the numbers on this and the $1300 maintenance, and decided that I'd be better off to wait for this kind of purchase, and preferably, pay cash.  

She certainly knew how to push my buttons and drive the sale.  This all happened Saturday morning.  Tuesday morning I went to the post office and mailed in my cancellation letter, signed, certified, return receipt.  Then I got called in my hotel room Friday afternoon while I was out.  Again on Saturday morning.

I was offered an additional 5,000 bonus points to change my mind.  Warned of how the resale market is big bad and scary, and how I'll never find a good deal because Hilton will use first right of refusal to avoid selling it to me, and I'll never have elite status with those points.  I turned down the additional offers, and said I want to cancel.  I think what got me was being misled by the loan.  If they can misled you there, then what else?  

In the end, I'm a little put off by the entire thing.  This, along with the recent devaluation of HHonors, makes me reconsider my paid business stay loyalty.  

Lengthy, but I wanted to comment, yes, the pressure is on at Hilton.  Plus, I needed to vent just a little too.    One of these days I'm sure I'll be an owner, so I'll be browsing the forums and such.  Today just isn't the time for me.


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## ricoba (Mar 13, 2010)

airshane said:


> Lengthy, but I wanted to comment, yes, the pressure is on at Hilton.  Plus, I needed to vent just a little too.    One of these days I'm sure I'll be an owner, so I'll be browsing the forums and such.  Today just isn't the time for me.



Welcome to TUG!

You did the right thing by rescinding 

Now is a great time to buy resale, prices are at all time lows.  So take your time, ask questions here and snoop around and learn more.

Enjoy!


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## TheWay.ISeeIt (Mar 13, 2010)

*You shouldn't feel remorse*

Don't feel bad about cancelling your purchase with Hilton.  The thing that has dogged the timeshare industry is not the concept but the sales and marketing practices.  We just went through the same pitch at Hilton Waikoloa 3 weeks ago.  They were not high pressure but I think some of that depends on how hungry the rep is that day.  Don't be afraid on resale; there are plenty of listings on this site at $1.50 per point or better being sold by licensed real estate brokers who many members here will attest are reputable.  As for Hilton's right of first refusal, there are some resorts they're buying and others not so when you're ready, put in an offer and see what happens.   And, you don't need to own Hawaii to stay there.


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## Talent312 (Mar 13, 2010)

A negative experience with their sales-cretins may be off-putting, but HGVC has enuff redeeming qualities (good custormer service outfit, very flexible program, etc.) that some (though not exclusive) brand-loyalty seems reasonable to me.


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## brp (Mar 15, 2010)

The worst that we had was a "misrepresentation" about the $85 cleaning fee for short stays (less than 3 days) at West 57th. Since our stays are always less than 3 days, this was a big deal and we were told that it was "definitely going away." Well, seems that they were trying to do that, and really thought it would....but it didn't.

Cheers.


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## Talent312 (Mar 15, 2010)

brp said:


> ... our stays are always less than 3 days...



If you don't stay in the same place for more than a day or two, what made you consider a TS "club" system in the first place? Yes, mighty "white" of HGVC, I'd say.


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## brp (Mar 16, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> If you don't stay in the same place for more than a day or two, what made you consider a TS "club" system in the first place? Yes, mighty "white" of HGVC, I'd say.



Considering the price of hotel rooms in NYC, even if we stay for 1-2 nights per trip, and about 5 nights per year, it will still save money in the long run. But maybe I'm missing the implications of the "club" question as opposed to a "regular" TS. The Hilton Club New York, which is the deal we're now getting, is ideal for what we want so, again, I think I'm missing some nuance of the question.

Cheers.


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