# Monarch Grand Vacations Bankruptcy



## elewiscs

We have been MGV owners for 3 years. Our first trip was Cabo for one week and it was fabulous. So much so that we bought more points. The same year we went to Cancun in Las Vegas for 2 days to check it out and it also was great. Last year we booked 10 days in Brian Head and took some friends. Big mistake. The place was a dump. Rundown. Out of order signs on everything. Most services closed. Ie, gym, restaraunt, pool, etc. We left early and got home and complained. We had taken photos to prove our point. 

On a trip back from L.A. 2 weeks later I stayed one night at the Palm Springs location. It looked like it had not been upgraded since 1975. No cable TV, No local phone service. My cell phone would not even work. Again I complained to Owner services. They finally gave us comp points on the B.H. trip to use this year. 

We just got back from 2 nights in Las Vegas and 8 days in Tahoe. On arrival in Vegas we were informed by a Diamond Resorts Rep that MGV no longer owned Cancun or any of its resorts. That is a direct quote. He said they filed bankrupcy. This was the first I had heard anything. They said they had taken over the Cancun resort and fired all MGV employees. They said they would honor our points for this trip since we had not been notified. We were required to sit thru a presentation in which we were told that MGV still held 5% interest in their previous holdings in order to say they still exisited and that would hold us to our contract and HOA fees which he said were going to go up through the roof. He would not quote and exact amount. He also said that the Cabo resort is or would be shutting down due to the violence issue in Mexico causing the visitor attendance to drop to almost zero. He said that we could transfer over to Diamond but the cost of transferring our biannual 222 points would be $16000.00. 

I got a MGV rep on my speaker phone with the Diamond rep present. I told the MGV rep what had been said and she flat out said he was lying. To which the Diamond rep told her she was lying. We made no purchase. I told him we would be consulting our lawyer. 

We went on to Tahoe Seasons which was a fair trip. The resort is actually owned by RCI to which they also said MGV owned very little interest in their resrort and it would be next to impossible to book any time in the future. The resort was old but fairly well maintained. They tried to gouge us on every penny. Including mandatory Valet parking. No self parking. A tip required everytime you wanted to park or retrieve your car or move luggage. After $100 in tips I fianlly went over to the Heavenly ski resort and purchased a parking tag for $20 to allow me to park in their lot 50 feet from the resort. 

We got home yesterday and I just got off the phone with my real estate attorney. She emphaticlly stated to not buy into Diamond as she has just as many people currently seeking legal advice against them as she does against GMV. She is investigating my options to just walk away from the whole scam mess.


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## Bill4728

elewiscs said:


> On arrival in Vegas we were informed by a Diamond Resorts Rep that MGV no longer owned Cancun or any of its resorts. That is a direct quote. He said they filed bankrupcy. This was the first I had heard anything. They said they had taken over the Cancun resort and fired all MGV employees. They said they would honor our points for this trip since we had not been notified.


Everyone who owns in MGV has received several notifications about the sale of MGV to DRI. Sorry to hear that you haven't received them. But the key thing is that this should not affect your ownership in any way. The new management company will run MGV resorts under basically the same rules that MGV ran them. 
Them saying they would honor your points for the trip makes no sense at all. They have to honor everyone points and ownerships. 



> We were required to sit thru a presentation in which we were told that MGV still held 5% interest in their previous holdings in order to say they still exisited and that would hold us to our contract and HOA fees which he said were going to go up through the roof. He would not quote and exact amount.


You are* never* required to sit thru any presentation while on an ownership point reservation. The only time would be if your stay was a special promo not an ownership reservation. 

No one yet knows what will happen to the MFs 


> He also said that the Cabo resort is or would be shutting down due to the violence issue in Mexico causing the visitor attendance to drop to almost zero.


WOW  that sure is a new lie. Who would believe that one. 



> He said that we could transfer over to Diamond but the cost of transferring our biannual 222 points would be $16000.00. I got a MGV rep on my speaker phone with the Diamond rep present. I told the MGV rep what had been said and she flat out said he was lying. To which the Diamond rep told her she was lying.



If you want to buy into DRI, you can buy them on EBay (and other internet sites) for <$100. So converting them for $16K makes no sense at all. PLUS  If you don't want to convert your MGV points to DRI points you don't have to. 

Hope this helps


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## Lets Get Going

Bill4728 said:


> Everyone who owns in MGV has received several notifications about the sale of MGV to DRI. Sorry to hear that you haven't received them. But the key thing is that this should not affect your ownership in any way. The new management company will run MGV resorts under basically the same rules that MGV ran them.



I am an owner and have only received one letter about a year ago stating DRI had purchased the Pacific Monarch Resorts, but not all MGV.  Haven't received anything since.  My quarterly MF bill still has MGV letterhead and gets mailed to the same address as always.

I just booked one of my MGV weeks and traded through II and had no problems at all.

What am I missing?  What don't I know?


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## dougp26364

Let's start with your rights as an owner. You have contractual rights of occupancy that DRI can't revoke. DRI is the management company, not the owner. You'll continue to be able to use your ownership under the contracts you have in your hand. Don't let a salesman tell you any different.

Second, MF's are likely to go up if the resorts are in the shape you describe. DRI has a standard they maintain. Those resorts will be brought up to DRI standards. Owners will pay for the upgrades through increased MF's and/or special assessments. 

This same scenario played out with Sunterra. Initially Sunterra owners complained about the increases. Then, as the money came in, upgrades were made and they saw that their money was going back into the resorts, owners were happier. It's not so bad paying higher MF's if you get something in return. 

Finally, NEVER believe what a salesman is shoveling. He's paid by comission and he'll try to scare you into buying something new by telling you what you have is worthless. The correct responce to a scare tacitic is why would anyone buy something that can so easily become worthless? The answer is they wouldn't and, you ownership hasn't changed. You continue to have the same rights as before. The ONLY thing that has changed is the management company, nothing else. Don't let them scare you into buying anything new or walking away from something you own and damaging your credit.

I can't endorse these forms of sales tactics but I can endorse DRI quality at their resorts. I have pics of the DRI managed resorts on our photo album page if you're interested in viewing them. Those resorts would be The Suite's at Fall Creek, The Suite's at Polo Towers, The Villa's at Polo Towers, Villa's De Santa Fe and The Historic Crags Resort in Estes Park. The link to our timeshare/vacation photo albums is in my signature below. The Historic Crags resort is an ILX resort that went through the same process as MGV is going through now. Crags has had some DRI upgrades but will continue to go through more upgrades over the next year or two. 

Forget what the salesman told you. You still own what you purchased. Don't let one dishonest salesman scare you into making a bad decision.


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## Bill4728

Let's Get Going! said:


> I am an owner and have only received one letter about a year ago stating DRI had purchased the Pacific Monarch Resorts, but not all MGV.  Haven't received anything since.  My quarterly MF bill still has MGV letterhead and gets mailed to the same address as always.
> 
> I just booked one of my MGV weeks and traded through II and had no problems at all.
> 
> What am I missing?  What don't I know?


I own both a MGV pts and also a week at an MGV resort which isn't in pts so maybe that is why I've received several things from MGV about DRI

I don't think you're missing anything.  

IMHO it is like when your bank gets bought out by a new bigger bank. Everything stays the same for a while then slowly the new bank makes changes. Sometimes good and sometimes not so good. You'll just have to see.  

So if you like the 9 MGV resorts, I'd continue to enjoy them ( or trade them with II) and not worry about who is the management company (MGV or DRI) ALSO  at this time I believe that the people answer the phones for MGV owners are still saying that they are MGV. They may be the same peole who were answering the phone for MGV last year or may be DRI employees but does it really matter? 

BUT DRI is likely to do some upgrades to the resort which may mean some increases to the MFs. 

ALSO DRI will try and get you to convert your MGV ownership to a DRI ownership with membership into the DRI "THE CLUB"  "THE CLUB" is just like MGV pt system as it lets you use your pts at any of the many DRI resorts and DRI associate resorts. (more than 50 resorts) BUT from what I've heard they basically are giving little or no value to most people's MGV ownerships and are charging MGV owners *full price* to buy into "THE CLUB" (Likely as much or more than people off the street pay)


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## Rent_Share

To me this is the most important issue when deciding to invest additional cash in "The Club"



> Is my membership transferable?
> THE ClubSM membership may be transferred by will, but may not be sold.
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64609&highlight=Club+Transferable


 
It is not even worth $1.00 once the ink dries on the signature


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## drguy

We were told in December that DRI was buying MGV, bringing it out of bankruptcy.  All current MGV owners would remain in the MGV trust with the same rights and usage as they currently have, and that could never be taken away.  Construction an Cabo Azul was continuing and the new units, as well as future units, would be DRI units.  The salesman's story was the same as the explanation from an Owner Services representative.


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## dougp26364

Rent_Share said:


> To me this is the most important issue when deciding to invest additional cash in "The Club"
> 
> 
> 
> It is not even worth $1.00 once the ink dries on the signature



IMHO, that would depend on your usage habits. 

True THE Club can't be transfered by sale but, we're members of THE Club because of how we use our ownership. We have been exclusively reserving units within the DRI system, saving us the cost of the I.I. membership and exchange fee's. We were allowed to put our two units into THE Club by paying a joiner fee of $2,995. Our two units were worth 26,500 points. Now, instead of having to make week long exchanges with I.I. we can make reservations as short as 2 nights or as many nights as we can afford to stay. We can also use unused points to offset our MF's or THE Club dues. 

To date we've been able to take the vacations we would have taken, we've taken some short stays and we've had points left over to offset MF's. It took us approx. 3 years to offset the cost of joining with the savings we realized from exchange fee's. Mostly because we'd make several short stay reservations each year vs 4 week long reservations. 

Don't discount the advantages to some just because the membership doesn't transfer at time of sale. With DRI's selection of resorts, it's made this particular ownership one of the more imporant timeshare ownerships we have.


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## dougp26364

drguy said:


> We were told in December that DRI was buying MGV, bringing it out of bankruptcy.  All current MGV owners would remain in the MGV trust with the same rights and usage as they currently have, and that could never be taken away.  Construction an Cabo Azul was continuing and the new units, as well as future units, would be DRI units.  The salesman's story was the same as the explanation from an Owner Services representative.



This would be the correct explanation. They can't take away something granted in the original sales contract unless owners vote to amend those rules. 

It's a shame that some salesmen believe they have to use fear and intimdation to sell a product. It takes DRI a little time to clear this style of salesman out of their ranks but they typically get those guys onboard with how DRI does things or the help them find another job with another timeshare company.


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## ginnylbs

*We just got back from Las Vegas Cancun - is the same*



elewiscs said:


> We just got back from 2 nights in Las Vegas and 8 days in Tahoe. On arrival in Vegas we were informed by a Diamond Resorts Rep that MGV no longer owned Cancun or any of its resorts. That is a direct quote. He said they filed bankrupcy. This was the first I had heard anything. They said they had taken over the Cancun resort and fired all MGV employees. They said they would honor our points for this trip since we had not been notified.



Things don't look any different at the Las Vegas Cancun resort. We used our MGV Points and had a nice stay.  We did not attend the update presentation as we usually decline them  (which is almost a normal invite at every timeshare company)....
I agree with Bill that you had a dishonest salesperson who was trying scare tactics to get you to buy more into Diamond.  I experienced no change from past visits.


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## Rent_Share

dougp26364 said:


> IMHO, that would depend on your usage habits.
> 
> True THE Club can't be transfered by sale but, we're members of THE Club because of how we use our ownership. We have been exclusively reserving units within the DRI system, saving us the cost of the I.I. membership and exchange fee's. We were allowed to put our two units into THE Club by paying a joiner fee of $2,995.


 



Bill4728 said:


> I've heard they basically are giving little or no value to most people's MGV ownerships and are charging MGV owners *full price* to buy into "THE CLUB" (Likely as much or more than people off the street pay)


 

Can't be cost effective at Full Price


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## dougp26364

Rent_Share said:


> Can't be cost effective at Full Price



For us, paying the joiner fee and paying the annual membership fee has been cost effective. 

They offered to upgrade us to Gold Elite by selling us additional points in one of the trusts and waiving the $2,995 joiner fee. That would not have been cost effective for how we use THE Club. We always have had points left over and buying more points would have been whizzing in the wind. 

The problem is getting the salesmen to lay out ALL the options, not just the options that make them the most money.


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## elewiscs

*Monarch Bankruptcy*

Well you can say what you want. As we all know even Monarch employees can join this blog and deny all day what is being said. As of today, my law firm  has spent one week reviewing all documents filed in California and Arizona regarding the bankruptcy scam. They have flat out said it is a shell game and that the we are being screwed. It is nothing more than a house of cards about to fall. They are revieiwng the options for a class action lawsuit and will be filing official documents with the Attorney Generals office of California and Arizona as well as the State Board of Real Estate in the next few weeks. We will be seting up a web site to test how many wish to be invloved in the suit in the coming weeks. I will post the web site address as soon as we have it up. If you don't beleive me. I strongly suggest you hire your own attorney to look into the documentation for yourself.
As far as the person that stated all owners were notified. They are ignorant of the facts. We talked with 2 other couples the day we were in Vegas and have since communicated with 12 other persons since my posting that were never notified.
As far as the person that stated all looked the same in Veas. You obviously did not look very closely. Every employee there was wearing a Diamond Resorts ID tag. Not Monarch. There were no Monarch employees on-site anytime during our visit. They also said the Monarch sinage would be coming down shortly.


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## ricoba

Blah, blah, blah....

You come on here after two posts where all you did was bitch, moan and complain.  

Experienced owners gave you good, sound, reasonable advice and opinion.

None to my knowledge are employees of Monarch as you suggest, and for you an absolute newbie to do so is utter foolishness and plain rude.

Move on and move out..... 

(You know what really pissed me off about your first post?  You blamed Monarch that you couldn't use your cell phone in Palm Springs...how the heck you can blame that on the crappy timeshare, and I agree that is a crappy timeshare, is beyond me....)


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## dougp26364

elewiscs said:


> Well you can say what you want. As we all know even Monarch employees can join this blog and deny all day what is being said. As of today, my law firm  has spent one week reviewing all documents filed in California and Arizona regarding the bankruptcy scam. They have flat out said it is a shell game and that the we are being screwed. It is nothing more than a house of cards about to fall. *They are revieiwng the options for a class action lawsuit and will be filing official documents with the Attorney Generals office of California and Arizona as well as the State Board of Real Estate in the next few weeks. We will be seting up a web site to test how many wish to be invloved in the suit in the coming weeks.* I will post the web site address as soon as we have it up. If you don't beleive me. I strongly suggest you hire your own attorney to look into the documentation for yourself.
> As far as the person that stated all owners were notified. They are ignorant of the facts. We talked with 2 other couples the day we were in Vegas and have since communicated with 12 other persons since my posting that were never notified.
> As far as the person that stated all looked the same in Veas. You obviously did not look very closely. Every employee there was wearing a Diamond Resorts ID tag. Not Monarch. There were no Monarch employees on-site anytime during our visit. They also said the Monarch sinage would be coming down shortly.



Oh SNAP! Another class action law suit. Better have that team of lawyers do a little research first.


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## csalter2

*So sick of lawsuits!*

I am so sick of people threatening lawsuits and all they have is little or inaccurate information and lots and lots of misplaced emotion. 

MGV owners, your timeshare was going bankrupt. You could have absolutely NOTHING. Instead you're whining and complaining without waiting to find out what your options will be.  

Be grateful you have an option. Geesh! People need to gain some perspective.


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## Bill4728

If the option was the vacation club was bankrupt and we could walk away that would be one thing, but someone has taken over the club and maybe all the rules have changed. That is the problem.


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## rjreichert

*DRI takes over MGV board*

On the MGV website, going to the downloads, they have posted the 2012 board minutes. They have resigned the MGV board memberrs and replaced them will DRI people. They are even holding the meetings in Vegas at Diamond headquarters.


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## dougp26364

Bill4728 said:


> If the option was the vacation club was bankrupt and we could walk away that would be one thing, but someone has taken over the club and maybe all the rules have changed. That is the problem.



See, that's just the problem. None of the rules have changed. DRI can't change the rules of the contracts that have been signed. Oh sure some salesmen will lie to you and tell you what you had is now worthless but, he's got something to sell you. You should keep that in mind when a salesmen tells you their line of BS. The rule around these parts are, if a TS salesmans lips are moving, he's lying. That holds true far more often than not. 

There's TONS of experience and information from TUG members. Before going off half cocked threatening lawsuits with legal teams that I often doubt exist, maybe some of these newbies should take a minute and listen to the voices of experience.

DRI will undoubtedly offer "upgrades" or changes but, they CAN NOT CHANGE those written contracts of MVC owners. Nothing has changed except that MVC owners now have another option. I'll repeat that again. NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT MVC OWNERS NOW HAVE ANOTHER OPTION. So what's a lawsuit going to do when nothing has been taken away? Are they going to slap the hands of a timeshare salesman that lied but put nothing on paper? Yea, good luck with that.

FWIW, Marriott introduced a new Destination Club to their owners, which is a points based internal exchange system. Marriott sales staff has been busy telling all their existing owners that their original purchases are no good anymore and they need to buy the new DC trust points to "legitimize" their ownership. :hysterical: It's just someone with something to sell trying to scare owners into spending more money.

The worst place to get any information is at the round sales table. Those guys are there to sell you something, not instruct you on anything. They know the least about what's going on and yet everyone runs around like chicken little screaming that the sky is falling every time one of them uses fear to try to close a deal. 

And why would you think a bankruptcy would just allow owners to walk away? How often have you seen a company liquidated vs another company stepping in and purchasing the assests? Walking away if very rarely an option when a timeshare resort files bankruptcy.


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## Bill4728

dougp26364 said:


> See, that's just the problem. None of the rules have changed. DRI can't change the rules of the contracts that have been signed. Oh sure some salesmen will lie to you and tell you what you had is now worthless but, he's got something to sell you. You should keep that in mind when a salesmen tells you their line of BS. The rule around these parts are, if a TS salesmans lips are moving, he's lying. That holds true far more often than not.
> 
> There's TONS of experience and information from TUG members. Before going off half cocked threatening lawsuits with legal teams that I often doubt exist, maybe some of these newbies should take a minute and listen to the voices of experience.
> 
> DRI will undoubtedly offer "upgrades" or changes but, they CAN NOT CHANGE those written contracts of MVC owners. Nothing has changed except that MVC owners now have another option. I'll repeat that again. NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT MVC OWNERS NOW HAVE ANOTHER OPTION. So what's a lawsuit going to do when nothing has been taken away? Are they going to slap the hands of a timeshare salesman that lied but put nothing on paper? Yea, good luck with that.
> 
> FWIW, Marriott introduced a new Destination Club to their owners, which is a points based internal exchange system. Marriott sales staff has been busy telling all their existing owners that their original purchases are no good anymore and they need to buy the new DC trust points to "legitimize" their ownership. :hysterical: It's just someone with something to sell trying to scare owners into spending more money.
> 
> The worst place to get any information is at the round sales table. Those guys are there to sell you something, not instruct you on anything. They know the least about what's going on and yet everyone runs around like chicken little screaming that the sky is falling every time one of them uses fear to try to close a deal.
> 
> And why would you think a bankruptcy would just allow owners to walk away? How often have you seen a company liquidated vs another company stepping in and purchasing the assests? Walking away if very rarely an option when a timeshare resort files bankruptcy.



Doug

I agree with everything you have said. I also agree that the rules of usage will likely not be changed but it sickens me that the salesmen can sit there and tell owners that they will be changed.   

There are many vacation clubs (non deeded) that in bankruptcy have had to liquidate and the club members are left with nothing. But you're right, that does not seem to be the case in this bankruptcy. The club ( deeded) is still there just managed by DRI instead of MGV.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Bill4728 said:


> There are many vacation clubs (non deeded) that in bankruptcy have had to liquidate and the club members are left with nothing. But you're right, that does not seem to be the case in this bankruptcy. The club ( deeded) is still there just managed by DRI instead of MGV.



IMHO - in the past here at TUG and other locations we have not sufficiently emphasized the differences between a club that is simply a club operated by some entity versus a club that is an interest in a trust that holds deeds.  The latter, of course, offers significantly more protection for owners.


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## AKE

elewiscs said:


> Well you can say what you want. As we all know even Monarch employees can join this blog and deny all day what is being said. As of today, my law firm  has spent one week reviewing all documents filed in California and Arizona regarding the bankruptcy scam. They have flat out said it is a shell game and that the we are being screwed. It is nothing more than a house of cards about to fall. They are revieiwng the options for a class action lawsuit and will be filing official documents with the Attorney Generals office of California and Arizona as well as the State Board of Real Estate in the next few weeks. We will be seting up a web site to test how many wish to be invloved in the suit in the coming weeks. I will post the web site address as soon as we have it up. If you don't beleive me. I strongly suggest you hire your own attorney to look into the documentation for yourself.
> As far as the person that stated all owners were notified. They are ignorant of the facts. We talked with 2 other couples the day we were in Vegas and have since communicated with 12 other persons since my posting that were never notified.
> As far as the person that stated all looked the same in Veas. You obviously did not look very closely. Every employee there was wearing a Diamond Resorts ID tag. Not Monarch. There were no Monarch employees on-site anytime during our visit. They also said the Monarch sinage would be coming down shortly.



Don't waste your time and money on lawyers - there are thousands and thousands of unhappy timeshare owners for whatever reason.  If legal means were successful (and profitable) then everyone and his brother would be suing AND THEY ARE NOT! For timeshares you need to be especially vigilant, know what you are getting into, and know how to play the game.  Learn from  TUG (and other timeshare-related websites) before you spend a fortune with minimal return.  There are many examples but look at the threads for POINT AT POIPU (a former Sunterra, now a Diamond-managed resort) to get an idea of what you are up against (this is just one example - there are many others). You can pick up 5* timeshares for free on the internet - don't waste you money buying from developers, regardless of what they tell you or promise you (and even if it is writing, they do go bankrupt at times and you cant get 'blood from a stone' so to speak).


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## Talan64

I just got off the phone with a MGV rep, well more than likely a call center person.  Anyways, they told me that I needed to upgrade to DRI or sell my points back to them.  The offer price to sell was $100 / point.  If this is truly the case and price, then I'm selling.

I have always had nice vacations at the resorts, however, when factoring in the maint fees and the original cost, I see no reason why I need to stay as an owner. 

I'm scouring the internet to see if it's a scam, and will call guest services first thing Monday morning, but if it's on the up and up, I'm done with MGV.


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## Matilda

*Class Action, was it started?*



elewiscs said:


> Well you can say what you want. As we all know even Monarch employees can join this blog and deny all day what is being said. As of today, my law firm  has spent one week reviewing all documents filed in California and Arizona regarding the bankruptcy scam. They have flat out said it is a shell game and that the we are being screwed. It is nothing more than a house of cards about to fall. They are revieiwng the options for a class action lawsuit and will be filing official documents with the Attorney Generals office of California and Arizona as well as the State Board of Real Estate in the next few weeks. We will be seting up a web site to test how many wish to be invloved in the suit in the coming weeks. I will post the web site address as soon as we have it up. If you don't beleive me. I strongly suggest you hire your own attorney to look into the documentation for yourself.
> As far as the person that stated all owners were notified. They are ignorant of the facts. We talked with 2 other couples the day we were in Vegas and have since communicated with 12 other persons since my posting that were never notified.
> As far as the person that stated all looked the same in Veas. You obviously did not look very closely. Every employee there was wearing a Diamond Resorts ID tag. Not Monarch. There were no Monarch employees on-site anytime during our visit. They also said the Monarch sinage would be coming down shortly.



I was looking for your email following where you stated a class action website is going to be available. Is it available yet? I'd like to join it.


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