# Wyndham Makai Club- Huge Renovation Fee!?!



## lizfox (Jan 3, 2010)

I just read a listing on ebay that said they paid a $994 renovation fee for Wyndham Makai Club that needed to be reimbursed!!!  This was for an even year usage timeshare, so that makes it even scarier!  I purchased a timeshare at Wyndham Makai Club in October 2009 and I was never informed about this renovation fee by the seller.  I have also not received a bill from the resort except for what was supposed to be my 2010 maintenance fees in the amount of $908.29.  Does anyone have any knowledge or details about this renovation fee?


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## zoobiedo (Jan 3, 2010)

My guess is it was paid before you purchased.  I don't own there anymore but you would have received a bill, I am sure, if you owed them any $$$.


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## lizfox (Jan 4, 2010)

I called Wyndham today and it turns out that the $908 fee I recently paid was for the first half of 2010 was both the maintenace and renovation fee!  I will owe another $908 fee in June 2010.  The person I purchased this timeshare from claims that Wyndham had not announced the renovation fee when I purchased this timeshare!  I just got off the phone wiht Wyndham and they are claiming it's possible that this renovation fee had not been disclosed to owners when I purchased this timeshare in October 2010.  Is it possible for a resort to not disclose a huge renovation fee until a month or two before half of the fee is due?

Are there any owners at this resort who have more information about this (such as when did you first receive information in writing regarding this renovation fee)?  I'm pretty shocked to be hit with this huge fee right after I purchased this timeshare and I had no idea I even owed a renovation fee until after I paid the $908 bill a few days ago!


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## alwysonvac (Jan 4, 2010)

Here's a thread I remember reading concerning Makai ... http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75063&highlight=makai


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 4, 2010)

alwysonvac said:


> Here's a thread I remember reading concerning Makai ... http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75063&highlight=makai



I was going to look that up.  Seems that the seller may have known about the assessment and dumped it to get rid of a big bill.  

On the brighter side, you will have something much more valuable with the remodel.  The units are currently very tired looking, and the are going to be really amazing when they are done with them.  I wonder about the timeline for the updates?  The Bali Hai was supposedly updated, but there are units in there that are so bad, I would be very upset to get those with an exchange. Torn linoleum, mismatched appliances, bad carpet, filthy rattan furniture (needs replaced instead of reupholstered).  Supposedly they are going to go back and re-hab those older units, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## lizfox (Jan 4, 2010)

Someone on a previous post said they were informed in August that there will be a $2,000 special assessment.  If this is the case (owners of Wyndham Makai Ckub please confirm), the seller should have disclosed this fact.  However, it's not clear whether they are talking about Makai Club (one-bedroom units), or Makai Cottages (two-bedroom units).  When I called Wyndham today they informed me that the $944 total special assessment due in 2010 was probably a one-time assessment and another special assessment likely won't be billed in 2011.  

Hopefully, we can receive some exact information from someone who has owned at Wyndham Makai for a while.


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## VA Beach Bum (Jan 5, 2010)

*A little nervous here....*

Newbie ( insert dunce cap smile here). We bought our TS in May '09. ( not in Hawaii) We were told the MF covers the cost of renovations ( they renovate every 5 yrs). So are you all saying that someday I may get socked with an additional bill should they decide to redecorate??


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## DeniseM (Jan 5, 2010)

VA Beach Bum said:


> Newbie ( insert dunce cap smile here). We bought our TS in May '09. ( not in Hawaii) We were told the MF covers the cost of renovations ( they renovate every 5 yrs). So are you all saying that someday I may get socked with an additional bill should they decide to redecorate??



Yep - not uncommon at all at older resorts.  The Board of Directors makes the decision and then tells owners...


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## lizfox (Jan 5, 2010)

VA Beach Bum,

You should have received the 2010 maintenance fee/special assessment bill that was already due for $908.  You will also be paying another $908 that will be due in June 2010.  After that point who knows.  It could stop there or it could be double that amount.  This is the information I'm trying to find out from someone who has owned at Makai Club for a while.


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## VA Beach Bum (Jan 5, 2010)

*I know, I know his lips were moving!*



DeniseM said:


> Yep - not uncommon at all at older resorts.  The Board of Directors makes the decision and then tells owners...



Ugh, I hate being lied to.... although I am sure it's in the fine print somewhere Fortunately my resort is newish so i have time to save some nickles and dimes


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## lizfox (Jan 5, 2010)

I just called the billing department at Wyndham (again), and finally got a straight answer!  The 2010 special assessment is an unreal amount of $1,888 for a one-bedroom unit!  The resort is billing this special assessment on a quarterly basis in the amount of $472.

I am in shock about this because this special assessment was never disclosed by the seller when I purchased this timeshare!  I have never heard of such a high special assessment on a one-bedroom unit.  What a joke!!!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 5, 2010)

VA Beach Bum said:


> Newbie ( insert dunce cap smile here). We bought our TS in May '09. ( not in Hawaii) We were told the MF covers the cost of renovations ( they renovate every 5 yrs). So are you all saying that someday I may get socked with an additional bill should they decide to redecorate??



In an ideal world, maintenance fees would cover all renovations, but if the money isn't there, then of course you will pay more in your fees, or you will get a big bill for an assessment.  Many of the current developers are subsidizing the resorts they are selling.  As soon as the developer is gone, and there is no sales incentive to keep those fees low, they do go up.  

If the resort continues to be managed by the developer, like the Starwoods, you will not be exempt from assessments.  Starwood tends to let resorts go until they are in bad shape, then it's high assessments.  Vistana is a perfect example.  

This is not just a problem with developer-run timeshares.  We have been assessed 8 continuous years, a total of $1,532 at one of our independent resorts in Colorado.  The place is now 29 years old and is looking its age. The assessments are finally done, and you know what?  Those assessments have been paying the bills the last 5 years!  Fee increases are okay in small little bits; no need pay the bills with assessments.  It just makes the board look bad!  Come on, $368 for a 3 bedroom unit, then tacking on $184 per year special assessment for 5 years!  

The first three years, all of the decks were replaced, and the clubhouse received a much needed makeover. But the last five years we have been treading water; not much in the way of improving going on.  

I am on the board now, and the board is determined never to do an assessment again; although, we are facing a real need to increase fees, and the owners were aghast at their 2010 MF bills.  Wait until they get a load of next year's fees, which will be yet again another $100 increase.  Some board members wanted to increase the fees all at once, but I was against it.  We need to go slower and make do until 2011.  

We cannot go on like we have been.  We need to establish a reserve, and maybe those payments will flatten out with only minor increases that match inflation.  Our management company told the board members they HAD to collect fees a month earlier than usual for 2010, because they couldn't pay the utility bills.   That will end, once this money comes in, but it hasn't been without a lot of arguments.


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## barefootnAR (Jan 5, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Yep - not uncommon at all at older resorts.  The Board of Directors makes the decision and then tells owners...



Not uncommon but thankgoodness not at the..Maui Schooner. the Schooner is scheduled for a big remodel.  But it won't be done unless the majority of owners vote yes. This is our first assessment in 20 years. Other improvements during this time have been done within the budget.
We have a great board..a few years ago, the board had the membership to prioritize some maintance items. They completed as many projects as they could. When the funds ran out they stopped.
Hummm..maybe we should send our board to Washington


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## Lee B (Jan 6, 2010)

VA Beach Bum said:


> Newbie ( insert dunce cap smile here). We bought our TS in May '09. ( not in Hawaii) We were told the MF covers the cost of renovations ( they renovate every 5 yrs). So are you all saying that someday I may get socked with an additional bill should they decide to redecorate??



The Board of Directors is SUPPOSED to do a study of past expenses and determine what they will cost for the next 12 months.  Then they are supposed to re-examine the "lifetime" of each long-term thing like exterior paint, the roofs, furniture, appliances etc., how old they are, what inflation will be and what this year's contributions should be so that when their life is over the money will be there to replace them.

This second category can be called "Reserves," "Replacements" or "Capital Items."  Some directors want to spend no money at all and insist that the Reserves be kept way down.  They are usually the cause of special assessments when something needs doing right away and there's no money for it.

Some directors don't pay for enough insurance and the resort gets caught by a fire, flood or hurricane and needs an assessment.

Another big part of assessments and fee increases can be deadbeat owners who stop paying fees and the board takes no action on them but passes all the costs to owners who do pay.

It might take a whole new Board of Directors to set things right.


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## timeos2 (Jan 6, 2010)

*There should be few Special Assessments but that isn't the case*



VA Beach Bum said:


> Ugh, I hate being lied to.... although I am sure it's in the fine print somewhere Fortunately my resort is newish so i have time to save some nickles and dimes



Actually it is often the newer resorts that are at bigger risk for special assessments. Many are managed by the developer who, as you can guess, want to make the place seem as attractive as possible to buyers. One way is to have a nice, low annual fee. One all too popular way to accomplish that is to underfund reserves, the set aside money to pay for needed upgrades / replacements as things naturally wear out. 

It isn't obvious that its occurring when things are all new but come the 5-7 year mark when it starts looking tattered suddenly there isn't enough set aside to fund repairs - bingo! Special assessment and often times not a small amount. To make things worse it often coincides with the period when the resort is officially turned over to owner control. The new Board, if properly elected by owners, find that they are facing a massive need for cash that hasn't been properly collected slowly over the years and they become the heavies. It's a pattern you see over and over again. But even if the developer stays in charge, common with Wyndham, Marriott and many other big names, they too realize they don't have the funds and now that things are nearly sold out aren't shy about hitting up owners for a massive assessment to do what should have been collected for over those early years. 

Hopefully it won't happen to your resort, but it is worth looking at the financials to see how much is in fact being placed in reserves.  The number should be in the millions as renovating isn't cheap and the larger the resort the quicker it multiplies the need. Being new does nothing to guarantee that costs will remain in line. Ask the owners of the Manhattan Club how that worked out for them.  It is one of the many dirty downsides of timeshares that newcomers learn about the hard way.  Being active in resort operations is one way to help avoid problems.


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## chily3 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Condo and Cottage update 2-16-2010*



lizfox said:


> I just read a listing on ebay that said they paid a $994 renovation fee for Wyndham Makai Club that needed to be reimbursed!!!  This was for an even year usage timeshare, so that makes it even scarier!  I purchased a timeshare at Wyndham Makai Club in October 2009 and I was never informed about this renovation fee by the seller.  I have also not received a bill from the resort except for what was supposed to be my 2010 maintenance fees in the amount of $908.29.  Does anyone have any knowledge or details about this renovation fee?



The condos and cottages weeks have been assessed a one time renovation fee for the 2010 year. Cottages $2,000 and condos $900 ( not exact numbers). We just returned from there and saw the completed "model" units, which are done very well. Also all of the units roofing has been replaced. 

since over the last years the units did not have adequate maintenance the assessment fee was necessary. The current board of directors is doing an excellent job at bring the units back to the way they should be. 

If you are purchasing one the these time shares be sure you know how the assessment is being treated by the seller. Even paying the assessment and a low price for the unit might be good price. 

Once completed they will be very nice.

See links for pictures first one is for the cottages the second is the condos may have to copy and paste the links.

mike 

http://sites.google.com/a/makaiclub...-site/Home/cottage-unit-301-renovation-photos

http://sites.google.com/a/makaiclub...ers-web-site/Home/unit-908-restoration-photos


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## Kauai Kid (Feb 17, 2010)

For Hawaii the fee is not at all unreasonable, unpleasant certainly, but not unreasonable.

A two bedroom 2 bath renovation at the Maui schooner for a single unit was $100k or about $2k/week.

We Schooner owners are hopeful that if the vote to renovate passes there will be considerable savings by doing multiple units simultaneously.

The vote is on the horizon, just about income tax time!!


Sterling


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## dougp26364 (Feb 17, 2010)

lizfox said:


> ...Is it possible for a resort to not disclose a huge renovation fee until a month or two before half of the fee is due?.....



Yes. We own a Florida Marriott week that had a smaller special assessment for hurricane damage. I knew about it ahead of time because of the websites I visit but, I don't believe it was officially disclosed until the MF bills came out. 

Unless there is a provision that allows owners to vote on a SA, then the HOA can simply bill it when it comes due or when MF payments are due.

IMHO, SA's are the result of HOA's trying to keep owners happy by keeping MF's to low. In order to keep the MF's low, they cut what is collected for cash reserves. Cash reserves, when collected appropriately, can cover planned future updates/renovations. Everyone cries about high MF's but no one cries about low collections for cash reserves. Marriott, which has some of the higher MF's in the industry collects close to $200 per owned week in our MF's for our two three bedroom weeks. By contrast DRI has been collecting less than $100/week on the two bedroom timeshares we own with them. Guess which management company hit owners with a huge SA to renovate the units? DRI hit owners with a $1,000+ SA. One of our Marriott weeks is currently begining renovations without an need for an SA.


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## makaiclub (Apr 18, 2010)

We have been annual owners at the Makai Club for a long time.  We did not vote on this $2,000.00 renovation fee (assessment).  They just decided to tack it on to our maintenance fee bills.  I am not going to pay this assessment, so therefore I will not be paying my maintenance fee.  The maintenance fee I pay is supposed to go towards renovating all the units every five years, NOT A SPECIAL ASSESSMENT!  If every owner pays $2,000 and if there is 40 unts X 52 weeks a year is quite a lot of money they are trying to collect for something that is supposed to be covered already.

I think this is illegal and if anybody is interestsed in getting together to possibly file a class action lawsuit please email me at dhutton18@sbdglobal.net.

Although the Makai Club is being managed by Wyndham, we cannot do direct exchanges through Wyndham resorts.  I was told they are only the property management firm.  It has not been any advantage to the owners to be affiliated with Wyndham, they are just trying to make money off of the owners!

Please contact me if you are fed up with illegal cons!


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## Lee B (Apr 20, 2010)

I bought a Makai Club interval about 10 years ago.  I and virtually all owners didn't know that the guy managing the resorts was of doubtful integrity.  He was very good at playing the thoughtful, responsible leader.

I started to receive nasty letters from somebody on behalf of Princeville Resort accusing the Boards and the now-former manager of horrible misbehavior.  Eventually the case went to court where the judge assigned management to PAHIO, which Wyndham bought out a few years ago.

The former manager had title to the unsold intervals and thought he could sell them off over a few years.  He got them from Princeville Resort for a note, some collateral deeds and even ownership of his management company, but fiercely resisted them when he didn't meet the terms of the note.  They finally gave up trying to coax him quietly and started the open vilification campaign.

Before they threw him out our maintenance fees and one special assessment went toward barely adequate maintenance and no reserves.  Some of the money may have gone into personal pockets, but I won't accuse anyone here.

PAHIO worked with the Boards quietly, but knew that the clock was ticking.  They sent out a questionnaire asking owners what we wanted to do.  I recall that choices included tear some buildings down or sell some off.  The majority said to spend what it takes to make the place as attractive as it used to be (this was before the recent economic disaster).  The Boards got a new, activist President who is moving with deliberate speed.

The buildings got to be in bad shape so serious work is required, not just replace the tired furniture.  I always liked my visits to Makai Club, so I decided to stay and pay.


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## makaiclub (Apr 20, 2010)

The only time we have used our timeshare at the Makai Club was when we purchased it in 1992.  Mainly we have traded it but the maintenance fees have been raised to exhorbitant levels over the years and now this special assessment that I never received anything to vote on for it.  I do not recall any other special assessments at any time since we have owned at this location or any of the other properties we own at.  I was told by the office staff at Wyndham that I would need to fly to Hawaii to attend a board meeting to voice my concerns, which I think is ridiculous.

_ads are not permitted in this forum--see TUG Marketplace to place an ad._


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## buffalobrian (Apr 21, 2010)

*Makai Club*

I've found this thread interesting as I've owned a Makai Condo for 5 years now after trading into one 6 years ago and knowing while they were a little dated they were structurely pretty sound so I bought one. I knew at that time they would need some care because after doing my do diligence I knew why PAHIO had taken them over, it wasn't a big secret if you paying attention.
With that said I knew a special assessment would have to be do at some point, as I've seen over the past several years, comments on RCI said they were dated, then about 3 years ago the Makai Board sent me paper work asking what we should do and there was a vote.
I'm not sure why everyone didn't receive a ballot on the special assessment, but one thing was pretty clear, either a significant amount of money was spent to bring them back up to a decent standard or they would continue to detereriot. As I planned on continuing to come to Hawaii for the next 20 years and really felt both the Condo's and Cottages held a lot of promise I was glad when the Board decided to ask for enough money one time to do restorations right. 
With that said, last I stayed at my PAHIO Bali Hai and was able to see in person the renovations. I liked them a lot. 
So much that last October after the special assessment came out my wife and I bought a Cottage and will be staying in it this coming June. It may not be one of the totally renovated ones, but that will come. For a 2,000sq ft stand alone unit, I think they are a deal.
On top of that our Board of Directors has made Wyndham provide the services we deserve by having the ability to check in on site Friday-Sunday and generally make sure the place is kept clean and neat. If you saw it when PAHIO was first bought out by Wyndham, the results are simply amazing. 
If you don't like the work the Board of Directors are doing, try to do it yourself. It's a volunteer job they are trying to do the best they can with people living in far away places who primary interest is trading their timeshare saying they aren't doing their job.
I don't know them but I'm very, very glad they are watching out for my interests, I know I can't, at least not yet.


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## makaiclub (Apr 21, 2010)

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## Ana (Oct 30, 2010)

*Status of SA at Makai Clubs*

TUG member makaiclub's email above is not working. I ask has anyone reviewed the Makai Club's special assessment (SA), and do they have any of the documentation to support the SA's legality?


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## makaiclub (Dec 19, 2010)

*Ad?*



makaiclub said:


> The only time we have used our timeshare at the Makai Club was when we purchased it in 1992.  Mainly we have traded it but the maintenance fees have been raised to exhorbitant levels over the years and now this special assessment that I never received anything to vote on for it.  I do not recall any other special assessments at any time since we have owned at this location or any of the other properties we own at.  I was told by the office staff at Wyndham that I would need to fly to Hawaii to attend a board meeting to voice my concerns, which I think is ridiculous.
> 
> _ads are not permitted in this forum--see TUG Marketplace to place an ad._



What are you saying is an "ad" that is not permitted?


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## makaiclub (Dec 19, 2010)

*Ad?*



makaiclub said:


> _ads not permitted_



What "ad"?


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