# PerryM is out of the Closet now!



## billymach4 (Jun 25, 2010)

Does anyone remember this site.

marriott-timeshares dot net

A few years back this surfaced here and I was going nuts trying to figure out who was behind this. Perry must have been laughing his pants off.

Then coincidentally the timesharewizard.com surfaced last week and it looked very familiar.

Listen to the voice in the video on marriott-timeshares dot netand tell me if that is Perry the wizard behind the voice!

I missed the Webinar so I did not hear his voice, Emmy said he was very articulate. Just like a Professor of Marriott MVCI!


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## GaryDouglas (Jun 26, 2010)

marriott-timeshares.net and timesharewizard.com share a common owner.


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## tombo (Jun 26, 2010)

Yes it is true, Perry has gone over to the dark side. He is a very smart man who in my opinion was bought off. Perry spent weeks on TUG explaining all the bad things Marriott might do when they launched points, even though IMO  Perry knew what the points program would consist of. Perry could cry foul on things he knew wasn't in the new points program to convince all he was opposed to the new point rules that were about to be launched. Then after complaining about many things he knew in advance weren't in the points program he was able to say he thinks the new program is great since it doesn't contain any of the things he complained about before. Perry's new  posts are almost apologetic. Perry is now saying all the things he thought would be bad when marriott launched points was wrong, it is a great thing.

Where is the old Perry who would be outraged about skimming (breakage)? Not a single complaint by Perry about skimming which is a rip-off. Where is the old perry who points out that points values aren't guaranteed and can be changed at any time for any reason?  Where is the old Perry who recognizes that Marriott is making money on conversions by skimming and making money every time an owner deposits their week for points or exchanges for  lock-offs? Where is he old Perry who points out that Marriott can sell unlimited points with underlying shoulder week deeds that can exchange for prime inventory hurting all owners? Where is the good old perry?  His webinar should have a disclaimer detailng that  marriott was sponsoring the webinar since Perry was bought and paid for by Marriott IMO!


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## taffy19 (Jun 26, 2010)

GaryDouglas said:


> marriott-timeshares.net and timesharewizard.com share a common owner.


Perry and Merlin are two different people. You can read it on in the forum of timesharewizard.com I don't believe that the voice is the same but it was over the phone. I don't know who the owner is of that domain name either. Since merlin has more posts, I believe it must be his. I am more interested in understanding the new internal exchange program.

The webinar was hosted here because that's where the charts were that Perry showed while speaking on the phone. He has a new seminar scheduled for July 1 at 8 PM CST.


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## taffy19 (Jun 26, 2010)

Post deleted.


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## GregT (Jun 26, 2010)

I don't think it is possible for Perry to be bought off by Marriott.

His Summit Watch Gold is practically worthless in the system for doing anything except visiting Summit Watch in Gold Season.

Everything does point to reduced inventory for trading in II (and possible raiding from Marriott) so his reliable up-trades are likely a thing of the past.

So, I'm extremely curious to hear him out -- if nothing else, it will be entertaining  (it always is!!!  )

Best to all,

Greg


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## GaryDouglas (Jun 26, 2010)

iconnections said:


> Perry and Merlin are two different people. You can read it on in the forum of timesharewizard.com  You can see that in the forum but I don't know who the owner is of that domain name. Since merlin has more posts, I believe it must be his.
> 
> The webinar was hosted here because that's where the charts were that Perry showed while speaking on the phone. He has a new seminar scheduled for July 1 at 8 PM CST.


 
I simply looked up the owners of these two domains and they have the same owner, which has the same owner as the website in his profile. How the websites are being used and by whom, I don't have a clue. Since anyone can discern this type of information on the internet, I assume I'm not divulging anything here...


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## lovearuba (Jun 26, 2010)

*perry*

I think Perry should clear this up.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 26, 2010)

tombo said:


> Yes it is true, Perry has gone over to the dark side. He is a very smart man who in my opinion was bought off. Perry spent weeks on TUG explaining all the bad things Marriott might do when they launched points, even though IMO  Perry knew what the points program would consist of. Perry could cry foul on things he knew wasn't in the new points program to convince all he was opposed to the new point rules that were about to be launched. Then after complaining about many things he knew in advance weren't in the points program he was able to say he thinks the new program is great since it doesn't contain any of the things he complained about before. Perry's new  posts are almost apologetic. Perry is now saying all the things he thought would be bad when marriott launched points was wrong, it is a great thing.
> 
> Where is the old Perry who would be outraged about skimming (breakage)? Not a single complaint by Perry about skimming which is a rip-off. Where is the old perry who points out that points values aren't guaranteed and can be changed at any time for any reason?  Where is the old Perry who recognizes that Marriott is making money on conversions by skimming and making money every time an owner deposits their week for points or exchanges for  lock-offs? Where is he old Perry who points out that Marriott can sell unlimited points with underlying shoulder week deeds that can exchange for prime inventory hurting all owners? Where is the good old perry?  His webinar should have a disclaimer detailng that  marriott was sponsoring the webinar since Perry was bought and paid for by Marriott IMO!



Did black helicopters come by and steal him? :hysterical: 

Give me a break.  You really think Marriott has swooped in and bought Perry off?  LOL!

I personally think Marriott could care less about Perry.  I think Perry has just decided to devote his energy and knowledge to create a new business for himself.  I do think he is the "wizard" and instead of spending countless hours rambling away here on TUG for free he's decided to become entrapunerial and try and create a new business for himself.  Good for him.  I applaud him for the effort!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jun 26, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> ...I personally think Marriott could care less about Perry...



Do not be too sure about your statement above. Major corporations now have "Social Media marketing groups" and they are charged with identification of "e-fluencers" who are writing about their products and services in social media forums like this one. Once an individual is identified as an "e-fluencer", all types of alliances and entrepreneural activities are possible. The norm is that these individuals than publicly disclose any such financial alliances. 

I am not suggesting that PerryM has financial arrangement with marriott at this point as I have no data to back it up.


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## PerryM (Jun 26, 2010)

*Black helicopters....*

I'm a businessman and make my living from the Internet now - I like it.

Everything I do, business wise, is done via the Internet right now.  I work from 5:30 AM to about midnight each day and just love it; on my laptop.  I don't drive to work, or work with folks, it's just me against the business world.

In business, you try a lot of things and then circumstances, beyond your control, decide what's a success and what's a failure.  Don't believe, me just look at the oil destroying hundreds of thousands of business in the gulf now.

I do work with lots of partners in ventures and in just about all cases a Non-Disclosure Agreement is involved - I have to keep my lips shut.

I know TUG, and no matter what I say there will be black helicopters circling my posts and what I say means little it seems.

In my current project, the new Marriott Vacation Club Destination Program, I spent 2 months coming up with every despicable, underhanded, immoral thing Marriott could do to us.  As I read the rules to the new Point system Sunday morning at 12:05 AM, my time I believe it was, I realized that Marriott did not want to screw their owners; in fact, they released a new system that was VERY VERY owner friendly.

I just love tearing apart systems and find ways to exploit that system to my advantage - what can I say.

I like the new Marriott system and we have decided to enroll our only Marriott we own right now - the Gold Summit Watch.  When I plan to do this will be in the future since Marriott did not implement time crunching sales events to force folks into the system.

I don't work for Marriott, I can tell you that, and I get NO compensation from them in any form, and they don't know me from Adam.  I don't sell eMail address and I am a fan of timeshares and plan to use our Marriott and the new system for years to come.

Well, I'm busy working on Webinar number 2 and finishing my first eBook for release shortly.  Everyone has free access to all the material - I've got 400,000 folks who are going to be hungry for this knowledge.  We'll see what happens.

I really don't want to disturb the hysteria here on TUG concerning the new Marriott - please continue without me; in this situation I like what Marriott has actually done and all the horrible things they left out that they could have done to the owners.

Let me restate my position on the NEW Marriott - I love it.  Is it perfect?  Are you?  If you demand perfection then this world is not what you seek.

So fire up the black helicopters and keep 'em buzzing guys..........


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## rsackett (Jun 26, 2010)

What a cop-out.

Ray


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## tombo (Jun 26, 2010)

I will take you at your word that Marriott isn't sponsoring or advertising on your webinar site, but if not for Marriott why the sudden open arms welcome of points which is bad for owners in so many ways? Why not dissect the bad points on your webinar rather than only poining out the good?Why are you suddenly in the tank for points?

 For months you invented impossible scenarios to condemn the new program before it it was launched, but now you love it and don't post or condemn any part of the program? It has nothing to do with Marriot, you jusy love it. You can't ever trade up like you are used to doing, but who cares? You love having zero ability to trade like for like with points? You like hidden skim fees with every lock-off that equals possibly $400 average in costs for owners? You have no problem that what you own doesn't get as many points when you deposit it as they charge others to rent it to others? You have no problem with Marriott seeling points pkges based on a group of shoulder weeks creating more competiton for prime weeks while flooding the inventory pool with weeks few people want to spend a point on. You give an entire webinar explaing only positives about the new system while ignoring or glossing over the bad? Your posiion is that everything they did is good and there was so many more bad things they could have done to owners? You love the new program since you really thought they would screw owners worse than they did? Really Perry, give us a break. They screwed owners plenty bad with this program.

NO other points organization (not Hyatt,DVC, Starwood, Wyndham,none) skims points from owners so that they don't get enough points to trade for what they deposit, but Marriott could have done other bad things to us is the only negative you espouse? They charge at least $2000 to anyone you sell your converted week to killing resale but what they could have charged at least $10,000? The REAL dollar costs in annual fees and points skimmed shows that it costs MORE to exchange a week in the Marriott points program  than it costs to pay $89 a year to join II and the $109 exchange fee. There are plenty of specific posts with specific examples using average point costs to prove that it is more expensive to exchange through Marriott points, but I guess you are correct saying everyone should be happy because it could be worse,  they could have skimmed more than 7% to 13% of owners points on every deposit. Free lock-offs using points? Nope, more expensive to lock-off using points too, but I guess that could be worse too. The sum of points charged for a one bed room and a studio is MUCH higher than the 2 bed room unit itself, so you get skimmed when you deposit your week with Marriott pocketing your points, and then whenever a week is locked off they skim more points. Dancali did a specific comaprison and it was about 400 US dollars in skimmed points average per lock-off unit Marriott charges for a lockoff, and that is in addition to the 7% to 13% of the points Marriott already skimmed from the owner of the 2 bed room when they deposited the week originally, but I guess that too could be worse. Out of the listed inequities, rip-offs, added expenses, hidden expenses,loss of access to up trades and loss of like for like trades, and with the resale value killing things that Marriott has implemented with their new points program,  your only negative you feel like discussing is that they could have done a lot of really bad things to owners that they didn't do? Wow! Well they did plenty of bad things to owners, you simply choose to ignore them. This program isn't owner friendly, it is Marriott friendly.


I still feel IMO that the head conspiracy theorist on TUG is involved in a conspiracy of his own in some form or fashion for reasons unknown but probably to make money one way or another (JMO). As with all theories I don't know that it will ever be proven correct, but i will stick with my theory until it is proven wrong as Perry in the past has clung to so many of his.


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## icydog (Jun 26, 2010)

I have no reason to think Perry has any ulterior motives other than to make money on the new system. He figures there is an untapped market of Marriott owners who will not understand how the system works and will therefore charge them $ to show them how to use it. Its called entrepreneurialism not lying. Perry realizes there is money to be made and he is tapping the well. There is nothing wrong with that. If he adds unfounded information or he glorifies the faults of the program then fault him. But right now, I cannot see how he has done anything wrong to any of you.


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## DanCali (Jun 26, 2010)

I listened to Perry's seminar. He requested that content information be kept confidential and I will honor that. But I will say that I did not find it to be that objective. Benefits were highlighted almost to the point of exxageration. Flaws with the program were hardly mentioned, if at all. It felt very much like a sales presentation.

That said, it was very informative and I learned quite a few things, especially given that I haven't read the docs word for word (yet). But if this is truly only to inform and educate, I would like to see the faults equally highlighted, if not more, because I'm sure Marriott will not highlight the faults in any brochure or presentation.


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## tombo (Jun 26, 2010)

DanCali said:


> I listened to Perry's seminar. He requested that content information be kept confidential and I will honor that. But I will say that I did not find it to be that objective. Benefits were highlighted almost to the point of exxageration. Flaws with the program were hardly mentioned, if at all. It felt very much like a sales presentation.
> 
> That said, it was very informative and I learned quite a few things, especially given that I haven't read the docs word for word (yet). But if this is truly only to inform and educate, I would like to see the faults equally highlighted, if not more, because I'm sure Marriott will not highlight the faults in any brochure or presentation.



If I want to get information about the new points program highlighting all of the positives while ignoring or glossing over the negatives, I can spend 90 minutes with a sales rep and get $100 or more for my time.


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## DanCali (Jun 26, 2010)

tombo said:


> If I want to get information about the new points program highlighting all of the positives while ignoring or glossing over the negatives, I can spend 90 minutes with a sales rep and get $100 or more for my time.



Yes, I'll be doing that soon.. (10,000 MRP)

That's why I wish he highlighted the other stuff. Why he didn't and where his motiveslie only he knows.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2010)

tombo said:


> If I want to get information about the new points program highlighting all of the positives while ignoring or glossing over the negatives, I can spend 90 minutes with a sales rep and get $100 or more for my time.



Very true. Sounds like a better use of my time...


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## DanaTom (Jun 26, 2010)

IMHO: it appears to almost be a "set-up" ...   all those negative posts for so long and then on the day of the new program, a complete turnaround.   It just doesn't add up.


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## camachinist (Jun 26, 2010)

To me, it's business 101..... generate interest and attention while circumventing this important forum guideline:



> Individual users please note that messages promoting anything for which you may receive some personal gain are considered to be advertising, and are thus prohibited. Promotion of any service where you would get referral compensation is considered to be advertising. Directing somebody to your classified ad on TUG or elsewhere is considered to be advertising. Promotion of a website where you have anything for sale or rent is considered to be advertising.



Hope it works out


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2010)

DanaTom said:


> IMHO: it appears to almost be a "set-up" ...   all those negative posts for so long and then on the day of the new program, a complete turnaround.   It just doesn't add up.



I am interested to know. Of all the things Perry said Marriott could do, what didn't they do. There is one thing they DID DO that no one really anticipated, that is the "skim factor". Not only to skim up front when depositing, but to skim more if someone "locks off" in the new points system, and to skim even more if you have only a few points left at the end of the year. If there is no way you can make a reservation with left over points, the provision is that they can't be carried over to subsequent years.


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## rsackett (Jun 26, 2010)

I never knew it was within TUG guidelines to manipulate TUG forums for my personal business gains!  This opens up a whole new world of possibilities for me!


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## DanaTom (Jun 26, 2010)

rsackett said:


> I never knew it was within TUG guidelines to manipulate TUG forums for my personal business gains!  This opens up a whole new world of possibilities for me!





LOL...  maybe they will start watching this a little more.   They appear to be starting to edit out some of the self promotion...  I'm sure several have pointed out the promotion of the "wizard's" website.


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## Michigan Czar (Jun 27, 2010)

Wow! I never thought I would see the day but it sure appears Perry is a sell out. C'mon Perry, skimming, reservation process, etc. Nothing?


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## davidvel (Jun 27, 2010)

Michigan Czar said:


> Wow! I never thought I would see the day but it sure appears Perry is a sell out. C'mon Perry, skimming, reservation process, etc. Nothing?


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## lovearuba (Jun 28, 2010)

*too bad*



rsackett said:


> I never knew it was within TUG guidelines to manipulate TUG forums for my personal business gains! This opens up a whole new world of possibilities for me!


 
It isnt the first time posters have felt this way.  I have to say, I suspect Marriott was involved in Perry's change of heart but I would not jump to conclude that the people that run Tug were involved. I would like to believe they are independent.  As for Perry, I was sorry to see him do this, it is not right.


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## m61376 (Jun 28, 2010)

Personally, I think Perry is a really knowledgeable guy that tends to jump to conclusions. As we all did, he looked at his situation first, and extrapolated generalizations from there. The fact that he felt that he was receiving a one to one valuation in points to what Marriott itself charges to rent his unit appeared fair- as I agree it does; where he was mistaken is he erroneously assumed that they used this valuation across the board, and didn't take the time to recognize the many disparities that others have been complaining about.

To his credit, he was genuinely surprised when I pointed out that the Aruba properties were valued less than properties which Marriott rents for half the price, considering even the peak weeks at the other properties. He was surprised that Marriott allocated the same points to OS owners at the Surf Club as to OV, despite charging almost 5K difference up front. I don't think he realized that many owners can't book a single week in their season using the allotted points; he assumed that since he was allotted an average for his season, that others were too.

So while I think he rushed to embrace the system by pronouncing it a winner from his gut reaction, I don't think there was any intent of being misleading. I think it was a more dramatic example of what Doug and several others seem to have posted- at first glance, they thought it had a lot of positives but, the more they look into the inconsistencies, lack of written verification of what's being told, etc., the more concerns they are having.

No doubt- there are many who will view the program like Perry did and jump on the bandwagon, There were obviously some resorts that had wonderful point allocations- allocations that, frankly, exceeds what Marriott itself valuates the resort as having, since their own rental rates are much lower than  other properties awarded comparatively less points. And these owners are right to jump in head first. For some people the program works great.

Where Perry has made a mistake, in my opinion, is feeling that he can uniformly extrapolate the analysis for his particular property. But in our conversations he is aware of the discrepancy and I really think his next webinar will be addressing them.


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## tlwmkw (Jun 28, 2010)

Perry also predicted that Marriott was a dying corporation and that all the rumours being put out about the new points system were a sign of "desperation".  I think everyone is putting too much emphasis on what Perry says- look back at some of his past predictions and you'll realize that he has no crystal ball to see the future.  He has good showmanship skills and is able to generate lots of buzz- now he's using that to create a business that advises folks how to use their timeshares.  It is odd that there has been such a 180 degree change of heart but that's the way it goes.  Let Perry be Perry and enjoy his pronouncements (just take them with a grain of salt).

tlwmkw


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## tombo (Jun 28, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Personally, I think Perry is a really knowledgeable guy that tends to jump to conclusions. As we all did, he looked at his situation first, and extrapolated generalizations from there. The fact that he felt that he was receiving a one to one valuation in points to what Marriott itself charges to rent his unit appeared fair- as I agree it does; where he was mistaken is he erroneously assumed that they used this valuation across the board, and didn't take the time to recognize the many disparities that others have been complaining about.
> 
> .



He didn't roll out his Marriott infomercial until Thrsday. The points program was launched Sunday. All he had to do was read the TUG threads to see the points skim discussed in detail, the loss of vote if you convert, the extra skim on lock-offs, the fact discussed often by many for days that they couldn't even trade for their own resort or a like resort using their annual points allocation, the fact that many don't receive enough points to book any week at their home resort in any season, reservation concerns, allocation of weeks between points and deeded weeks, selling groups of shoulder weeks as a platinum points plus pkge that can reserve at 13 months while only depositing crappy underlying weeks nobody wants in exchange, and much more that he could have found easily if he wanted to. All day Monday, all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, and all day Thursday the posts continued on TUG with so many negatives discussed here, and yet not one was mentioned in his Thursday night Marriott points infomercial.

Perry did not get caught by surprise. He reads TUG often and would not have missed reading and analyzing a 1000 post thread discussing the new points program if he had actually wanted to prepare a balanced webinar giving pros and cons. He would have read, dissected, and presented the skims, loss of vote, and other troubling parts of the new program if he wanted to include them. Perry presented the one sided Marriott infomercial he wanted to present, pure and simple.This was a calculated pro points sales presentation masquerading as a webinar. Why he did it we might never know for sure, but you can be sure he didn't leave out the negatives because they caught him by surprise 4 days after the new program was launched.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 28, 2010)

tombo said:


> He didn't roll out his Marriott infomercial until Thrsday. The points program was launched Sunday. All he had to do was read the TUG threads to see the points skim discussed in detail, the loss of vote if you convert, the extra skim on lock-offs, the fact discussed often by many for days that they couldn't even trade for their own resort or a like resort using their annual points allocation, the fact that many don't receive enough points to book any week at their home resort in any season, reservation concerns, allocation of weeks between points and deeded weeks, selling groups of shoulder weeks as a platinum points plus pkge that can reserve at 13 months while only depositing crappy underlying weeks nobody wants in exchange, and much more that he could have found easily if he wanted to. All day Monday, all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, and all day Thursday the posts continued on TUG with so many negatives discussed here, and yet not one was mentioned in his Thursday night Marriott points infomercial.
> 
> Perry did not get caught by surprise. He reads TUG often and would not have missed reading and analyzing a 1000 post thread discussing the new points program if he had actually wanted to prepare a balanced webinar giving pros and cons. He would have read, dissected, and presented the skims, loss of vote, and other troubling parts of the new program if he wanted to include them. Perry presented the one sided Marriott infomercial he wanted to present, pure and simple.This was a calculated pro points sales presentation masquerading as a webinar. Why he did it we might never know for sure, but you can be sure he didn't leave out the negatives because they caught him by surprise 4 days after the new program was launched.



Excellent analysis.

What I like about what PerryM posts is that he is a very good writer and provides excellent examples.  The problem I have is that he is advising consumers and not providing them balanced points of view.  Taking his advice can be very dangerous to the average consumer.

I enjoy reading PerryM's posts because he makes me think about the topics he is discussing.  The biggest issue I have is that he takes such extreme positions that his predictions are often times very far off.  And anyone tracking his recommendations would know how alarming often he is wrong.  He is great on these boards because he stimulates a lot of good discussion with his extreme positions.  I think he does it on purpose to get that discussion.  What results is a good understanding of the topic being discussed.

If Perry is writing a "how-to" guide, it would be pretty good because he does do a good job describing examples in detail.  If he is giving a recommendation, I would take that idea as a concept and bounce off what someone wants to do on this message board to get second opinions.


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## sparty (Jun 28, 2010)

lovearuba said:


> It isnt the first time posters have felt this way.  I have to say, I suspect Marriott was involved in Perry's change of heart but I would not jump to conclude that the people that run Tug were involved. I would like to believe they are independent.  As for Perry, I was sorry to see him do this, it is not right.



Nice to now what  skin everyone has in the game.  Perry's is 1 gold summit watch week? Wow

And all this talk about huge concern over resale value? I remember when I first bought in HHI. Before finalizing the purchase I reviewed with my attorney and his comment was "You know.. timeshares don't really have any resale value.."  and we both laughed.. It wasn't about resale value it was ability to have great vacations with the family...

My biggest concern with the new program: Does the program improve my vacation experiences more than they currently are?

What I like reading about the most on TUG are ways people were able to have awesome vacation experiences.. Not so much about resale, Perry's ebook business, etc.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 28, 2010)

sparty said:


> Nice to now what  skin everyone has in the game.  Perry's is 1 gold summit watch week? Wow
> 
> And all this talk about huge concern over resale value? I remember when I first bought in HHI. Before finalizing the purchase I reviewed with my attorney and his comment was "You know.. timeshares don't really have any resale value.."  and we both laughed.. It wasn't about resale value it was ability to have great vacations with the family...
> 
> ...



It turns out that what you point out is the primary reason that Perry's conclusions tend to be wrong more often than right.  He takes one data point and extrapolates it to the entire market rather than taking a collection of data points and getting a distribution of outcomes.


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## thheath (Jun 28, 2010)

Tuggers are the most helpful and considerate people on the web.  

For Perry to self promote himself on our forum when he knows it's against the rules is shameful and speaks to his character.


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## banquopack (Jun 28, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> It turns out that what you point out is the primary reason that Perry's conclusions tend to be wrong more often than right.  He takes one data point and extrapolates it to the entire market rather than taking a collection of data points and getting a distribution of outcomes.



I agree - I listen to the Webinar and all I could think was:  I read through the documents myself, he isn't telling me a single thing I don't already know.  Then, all he could talk about was how amazing this new system was for anybody who saved bundles buying resale.  There was zero information offered for somebody who bought developer.


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## gailo (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey Perry
Buy you lunch for the real skinny-Kirkwood?


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 28, 2010)

thheath said:


> Tuggers are the most helpful and considerate people on the web.
> 
> For Perry to self promote himself on our forum when he knows it's against the rules is shameful and speaks to his character.



I don't think Perry has crossed any lines.  He is an expert and thought leader on these message boards.  He is offering a free service which is a webinar for anyone to attend.  I see no problem with that.  

So, he's trying to sell some eBooks.  He will make some sales, but he won't get rich doing it.  He's actually on the wrong approach for making money in timesharing.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 28, 2010)

Two Words... Planet Hollywood

From what I can tell - there is only one major positive outcome (amoung many negative ones) that the new points program offers and that is added flexibility in resort usage (very impactful to those looking for it...).  However that comes with costs that are hefty for some, and less so for others (e.g. multiple week owners - preferred members) - that results in more profit for Marriott - no matter what - and that profit comes from owners and users of the system.


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## NboroGirl (Jun 28, 2010)

*How long is the webinar?*

Can someone who viewed the webinar tell me how long it lasts?  I am debating signing up for it out of curiousity, but I don't want to take up too much time.


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## thheath (Jun 28, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I don't think Perry has crossed any lines.  He is an expert and thought leader on these message boards.  He is offering a free service which is a webinar for anyone to attend.  I see no problem with that.
> 
> So, he's trying to sell some eBooks.  He will make some sales, but he won't get rich doing it.  He's actually on the wrong approach for making money in timesharing.



Maybe you didn't read the post prior to the moderators scubbing it.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 28, 2010)

thheath said:


> Maybe you didn't read the post prior to the moderators scubbing it.



Give me the elevator pitch on what he said?  

I hope Perry creates a timeshare business.  I wish him luck.  We need more people creating them.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 28, 2010)

NboroGirl said:


> Can someone who viewed the webinar tell me how long it lasts?  I am debating signing up for it out of curiousity, but I don't want to take up too much time.



Just remember that if he tells you that Planet Hollywood is the greatest timeshare on the planet, hold onto your wallet. I would never spend $100,000 for a single week, let alone brag about it on a timeshare experts website. 

Even the Westgate sales guys made fun of Perry on that one.  Truly amazing.


----------



## taffy19 (Jun 28, 2010)

NboroGirl said:


> Can someone who viewed the webinar tell me how long it lasts?  I am debating signing up for it out of curiousity, but I don't want to take up too much time.


It lasted exactly an hour but I don't know if there was a Q&A session after that as I had something else to listen to at 7 PM PST.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> He didn't roll out his Marriott infomercial until Thrsday. The points program was launched Sunday. All he had to do was read the TUG threads to see the points skim discussed in detail, the loss of vote if you convert, the extra skim on lock-offs, the fact discussed often by many for days that they couldn't even trade for their own resort or a like resort using their annual points allocation, the fact that many don't receive enough points to book any week at their home resort in any season, reservation concerns, allocation of weeks between points and deeded weeks, selling groups of shoulder weeks as a platinum points plus pkge that can reserve at 13 months while only depositing crappy underlying weeks nobody wants in exchange, and much more that he could have found easily if he wanted to. All day Monday, all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, and all day Thursday the posts continued on TUG with so many negatives discussed here, and yet not one was mentioned in his Thursday night Marriott points infomercial.
> 
> Perry did not get caught by surprise. He reads TUG often and would not have missed reading and analyzing a 1000 post thread discussing the new points program if he had actually wanted to prepare a balanced webinar giving pros and cons. He would have read, dissected, and presented the skims, loss of vote, and other troubling parts of the new program if he wanted to include them. Perry presented the one sided Marriott infomercial he wanted to present, pure and simple.This was a calculated pro points sales presentation masquerading as a webinar. Why he did it we might never know for sure, but you can be sure he didn't leave out the negatives because they caught him by surprise 4 days after the new program was launched.



You are right on, Perry knows how many negatives there are to the new system, he is not a dumb guy, that is why his motives have been questioned over the years. There have been  many times he has taken a position contrary to what he knows to be true. Its definitely not by accident.


----------



## GaryDouglas (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Just remember that if he tells you that Planet Hollywood is the greatest timeshare on the planet, hold onto your wallet. I would never spend $100,000 for a single week, let alone brag about it on a timeshare experts website.
> 
> Even the Westgate sales guys made fun of Perry on that one. Truly amazing.


 
TUG records on PerryM's Planet Hollywood experience mysteriously vanished, but as I remember: Perry got the best suite in the best location at the best time of year. The purchase price was not stated, but his sales rep was relieved of his job after the transaction. If anyone else remembers differently, I'm open to correction, in the interest of the truth.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 29, 2010)

GaryDouglas said:


> TUG records on PerryM's Planet Hollywood experience mysteriously vanished, but as I remember: Perry got the best suite in the best location at the best time of year. The purchase price was not stated, but his sales rep was relieved of his job after the transaction. If anyone else remembers differently, I'm open to correction, in the interest of the truth.




How do TUG records vanish? Who would want Perry's experience erased?


----------



## GaryDouglas (Jun 29, 2010)

It's a long story, but Perry erased them at a time when the system allowed users to modify their past postings.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*Just 1 More Reason We Are Obliged To PerryM.*




GaryDouglas said:


> Perry erased them at a time when the system allowed users to modify their past postings.


That led to a major serious system improvement.  

Participants now have 48 hours or so after sending in TUG-BBS entries to make extensions, revisions, additions, corrections, etc.

Before Perry's major erasure caper, entries remained open to alteration indefinitely.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 29, 2010)

*Those posts weren't removed by moderators*



GaryDouglas said:


> TUG records on PerryM's Planet Hollywood experience mysteriously vanished, but as I remember: Perry got the best suite in the best location at the best time of year. The purchase price was not stated, but his sales rep was relieved of his job after the transaction. If anyone else remembers differently, I'm open to correction, in the interest of the truth.



There was nothing "mysterious" about the record being largely removed. Perry erased it rather than attempt to explain how he was so badly mislead on so many "facts" that turned out to be completely untrue. No one (except Perry at one point) claimed the sales rep was dismissed over that - while many did report that the PH/Wastegate sales team viewed it as high water mark of slick sales to a buyer that bought in at a record high price on a hyped up deal. 

One time could be viewed as a mistake any one of us could - and often have if we are willing to admit it to ourselves - make. But in this case it is merely one in a rather long pattern of "biggest things" to be hyped by Perry (Condo hotels, destination clubs and more) most with high price tags, high risks and, a short time later, big time collapse that cost those putting money in huge losses.  Unfortunately Perry then gets on a new train and attempts to wash clean his past record as "over the bridge - forget it and move on".  

For me at least he lost all credibility after the second rookie "miscalculation" blew up.  And this latest unprecedented build up and sudden 180 degree turnabout on the Marriott points system just adds to the pile of similar history and pending bad ending. As stated before take the advice for exactly or less than you paid for it.


----------



## laurac260 (Jun 29, 2010)

This thread is very amusing to me.  The internet bbs are rife with people pretending to be something they are not.  A certain pseudo-anonimity allows that to happen.

Why should TUG be any different?  Are you mad because you feel he led you down the rabbit hole, or are you mad because you followed?


----------



## tlwmkw (Jun 29, 2010)

Timeos,

You are correct.  Perry's predictions are often wide of the mark.  The problem is that many people who don't know his past history will believe his shtick and think that he has some great insight into TS's and business in general.  As you say take the advice for the value that you paid for it.  I'll be interested to see how long before Perry does another 180 and says that Marriott had made a big mistake and is soon going to be out of business.

By the way, if you go to his website you can rent out his Planet Hollywood week for New Years- he'll throw in a limo ride too!

tlwmkw


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*Web Sites Are Not All Created Equal.*




tlwmkw said:


> By the way, if you go to his website you can rent out his Planet Hollywood week for New Years- he'll throw in a limo ride too!


By contrast, if you go to my web site, about all you can do is see old entries recycled off TUG-BBS.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (Jun 29, 2010)

.

Psssst... wanna buy a timeshare?  Come to my web site...


----------



## RandR (Jun 29, 2010)

tlwmkw said:


> Timeos,
> 
> You are correct.  Perry's predictions are often wide of the mark.  The problem is that many people who don't know his past history will believe his shtick and think that he has some great insight into TS's and business in general.  As you say take the advice for the value that you paid for it.  I'll be interested to see how long before Perry does another 180 and says that Marriott had made a big mistake and is soon going to be out of business.
> 
> ...



I'll tell you exactly when Perry will do another 180.  After he milks his current idea for everything it is worth.  Then he will move on to his next money making endeavor.  Why is he sooo positive now?  Well it sells better.  There are a lot of people with very little knowledge of what they bought and Perry will "help" guide them.  Do they want to hear what a terrible thing Marriott did and how their "investment" is devalued?  Not by a long shot.  They only want the good things and Perry will be more than happy to provide that...at a price. 

BTW, he loves that we are all talking about him.


----------



## tombo (Jun 29, 2010)

Perry advocated buying a $100,000 week at Planet Hollywood as a great investment. Last I heard the roject is almost broke, sales are pitiful,and they didn't even built the balconies on the units that they promised. Planet Hollywood is on of the biggest, if not biggest timeshare failures ever and Perry told all to get one while they could.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-103902893.html

Perry advocated cond-hotels as a great thing and the wave of the future. Big bust with many people loosing lots of money. A fad that never caught on in spite of Perry's assurances it would.
http://www.glgroup.com/News/The-Condo-Hotel-Gone-Bad--A-Particular-Corner-of-Hell-42734.html

Perry was a proponent of high dollar destination clubs. It was said by many you were simply paying some guy to buy houses and let you rent weeks there with no guatantees that they investment would be there years down the road. Most destination clubs have since folded and members have lost $100,000's even though Perry assured all that theses were a good thing that all who could afford them should invest in.
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_1st/Jan09_Lusso.html

I don't know of any of Perry's choices that have been successful Now he says everyone should convert to Marriott points because it is great and he can find nothing bad about the program. If you have no other reason to not convert to points,I say you will be wise to not convert just because Perry is for it. Doing the opposite of what Perry recommends has a proven track record of being the correct thing to do.


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## laurac260 (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> Perry advocated buying a $100,000 week at Planet Hollywood as a great investment. Last I heard the roject is almost broke, sales are pitiful,and they didn't even built the balconies on the units that they promised. Planet Hollywood is on of the biggest, if not biggest timeshare failures ever and Perry told all to get one while they could.
> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-103902893.html
> 
> Perry advocated cond-hotels as a great thing and the wave of the future. Big bust with many people loosing lots of money. A fad that never caught on in spite of Perry's assurances it would.
> ...



Tom, I don't have "historical perspective" regarding Perry, as you do, since I've only been on this board for about a year.  Sometimes though, a fresh set of eyes is helpful.  My opinion on Perry from the moment I saw his first post until now has always been, "Wow, this guy has a very high opinion of himself, what he has to say, and his place in the world."  I'd be much more likely to buy into something Alan had to say than Perry.  I have always been very wary of "loud talkers".


----------



## ldanna (Jun 29, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> This thread is very amusing to me.  The internet bbs are rife with people pretending to be something they are not.  A certain pseudo-anonimity allows that to happen.
> 
> Why should TUG be any different?  Are you mad because you feel he led you down the rabbit hole, or are you mad because you followed?



The country singer Brad Paisley sings a very good song "Online". It's about your real and your online lifes. Very interesting. And amusing, indeed.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*Internet Persona.*



ldanna said:


> The country singer Brad Paisley sings a very good song "Online". It's about your real and your online lifes. Very interesting. And amusing, indeed.






-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## SueDonJ (Jun 29, 2010)

My theory is that on the internet, all the women are stunningly gorgeous and all the men are drop-dead handsome, and we all are much smarter than the average bears.  It makes it so enjoyable to visit TUG every day.


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## thheath (Jun 29, 2010)

RandR said:


> I'll tell you exactly when Perry will do another 180.  After he milks his current idea for everything it is worth.  Then he will move on to his next money making endeavor.  Why is he sooo positive now?  Well it sells better.  There are a lot of people with very little knowledge of what they bought and Perry will "help" guide them.  Do they want to hear what a terrible thing Marriott did and how their "investment" is devalued?  Not by a long shot.  They only want the good things and Perry will be more than happy to provide that...at a price.
> 
> *BTW, he loves that we are all talking about him*.



I wouldn't want Tuggers talking about my lack of character and integrity...


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## RandR (Jun 29, 2010)

thheath said:


> I wouldn't want Tuggers talking about my lack of character and integrity...



He loves the attention.  Some think he lacks integrity...others will sign up for his webinar and buy his ebook.


----------



## Clemson Fan (Jun 29, 2010)

thheath said:


> Maybe you didn't read the post prior to the moderators scubbing it.



I didn't get a chance to read this either and I feel like I'm reading this current round of Perry bashing in the dark.  Can someone please five the Clif notes version of what was posted and removed?

As for Perry, I've said before I like him and his posts.  I can say I've never lost a dime off of what he's said and I've enjoyed reading many of his posts.  He did help ke several years ago on a specific question I had and he responded very quickly and was very friendly and courteous.


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## thheath (Jun 29, 2010)

The information that was removed touted his product and website, the link to his website was in the post.


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## tombo (Jun 29, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> I
> 
> As for Perry, I've said before I like him and his posts.  I can say I've never lost a dime off of what he's said .



Then I must assume that you never invested in a condotel, a destination club, or Planet Hollywood, because if you had you I doubt you could make that statement.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> Then I must assume that you never invested in a condotel, a destination club, or Planet Hollywood, because if you had you I doubt you could make that statement.



or a WorldMark fractional, or the DJIA ETF at the market top, or a pre-construction Marriott.


----------



## cruisin (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> Then I must assume that you never invested in a condotel, a destination club, or Planet Hollywood, because if you had you I doubt you could make that statement.





BocaBum99 said:


> or a WorldMark fractional, or the DJIA ETF at the market top, or a pre-construction Marriott.



It seems like all these promotions would not have helped owners, but developers? Again, he knows better, so why?


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 29, 2010)

Wow, you guys can be vicious. 

I kinda like Perry and read almost all his posts - but any decision I make are mine to make and wouldn't blame Perry for my mistakes. 

Not listening to him cost me $30,000 actually. I bought into High Country Club destination club after he told me not to do it. Initially, he was high on HCC and destination clubs before anyone else, and then changed his viewpoint quite vocally once he investigated the business plans. People, like me, were caught up in the excitement of something new and didn't listen when he reversed his position ... so today I'm out $30,000 as HCC went under. Perry warned that they'd all go under, and most of them have.

Before the Destination Club crashes, I was ready to buy into a condo-hotel at Red Leaves Muskoka (JW Marriott Rosseau) and he said not to touch it. I didn't. They failed and it cost their investors a ton of money.

I do think Perry has added a lot to TUG over the years and would hate to see him not post anymore, regardless of what positive or negative speculation is made of him here over the Marriott situation.

Brian


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*There Is No Such Thing As Bad P. R.*




RandR said:


> He loves the attention.


That's about the size of it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> Wow, you guys can be vicious.
> 
> I kinda like Perry and read almost all his posts - but any decision I make are mine to make and wouldn't blame Perry for my mistakes.
> 
> ...



I agree that Perry is a valuable poster and has some good insights.  I'd love for him to post more again.  I stated above what I thought he did well.  For balance, I also indicated what he does poorly.  My biggest issue with Perry is that he tries to come off as an expert in many subjects and if you know anything about the topic, you can dismantle his arguments as being too superficial and often times misguided.  I don't even have a problem with him being a speculator on subjects as long as he doesn't try to position him as an expert when he isn't.  That's because there are a lot of newbies here who can be taken in by the dazzling as opposed to the sound advice you can get here on TUG.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> Wow, you guys can be vicious.
> 
> I kinda like Perry and read almost all his posts - but any decision I make are mine to make and wouldn't blame Perry for my mistakes.
> 
> ...



So are you saying he was for it before he was against it?  Or, he was against it before he was for it?

That, in a nut shell, is the problem.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

cruisin said:


> It seems like all these promotions would not have helped owners, but developers? Again, he knows better, so why?



Perry is very pro developer.  Although I doubt any developer would hire him for any projects.  

On the WorldMark boards, he bashes owners and mocks their attempt to get on the board and take control of it.  We can say that he hasn't endeared himself to that group.

He claims to be some type of WorldMark wizard.  He's good with it.  But, nothing special.  His special talent is getting eye balls on a topic.  He is good at generating visceral reactions in everyone.  There is value in that skill.  It's just not as an analyst.


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## hipslo (Jun 29, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> Not listening to him cost me $30,000 actually. I bought into High Country Club destination club after he told me not to do it.



You did????  I remembered you as a highly skeptical voice on HCC on steamboat's old forum when everyone else was gloating about the great vacations they were getting for peanuts, making fun of all of us low- rent timeshare owners.   I agreed with most of what you said at the time.  At that time, Perry was a very vocal opponent of the DC model, as well.


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## ace2000 (Jun 29, 2010)

hipslo said:


> You did???? I remembered you as a highly skeptical voice on HCC on steamboat's old forum when everyone else was gloating about the great vacations they were getting for peanuts, making fun of all of us low- rent timeshare owners. I agreed with most of what you said at the time. At that time, Perry was a very vocal opponent of the DC model, as well.


 


It's getting harder and harder to figure out who said what and when...  can someone please start keeping track from now on.  

LOL  :hysterical:


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes I did buy into HCC DC.  At the time the Canadian dollar was worth 10 cents more than the US dollar which was quite a change from when I bought all my timeshares when the CDN dollar was only 65 cents. In addition, I got sold on the BS idea HCC would return all the money if you resigned within a year and times were pretty good for me financially. The wildcard there was that HCC wasn't honest and failed miserably as the recession just got under way.

However, the enthusiasm those initial HCC members had was quite overpowering and I guess I misjudged my own instincts.  We all make mistakes, eh?

A good but costly lesson for me --- and one from which I've decided not to leap into Marriott's new points plan (even tho Perry seems to like it).

Brian




hipslo said:


> You did???? I remembered you as a highly skeptical voice on HCC on steamboat's old forum when everyone else was gloating about the great vacations they were getting for peanuts, making fun of all of us low- rent timeshare owners. I agreed with most of what you said at the time. At that time, Perry was a very vocal opponent of the DC model, as well.


----------



## tombo (Jun 29, 2010)

pwrshift said:


> Wow, you guys can be vicious.
> 
> I kinda like Perry and read almost all his posts - but any decision I make are mine to make and wouldn't blame Perry for my mistakes.
> 
> ...



I was against Destination Clubs and was very vocal in my feelings that destinatin clubs were a bad deal for people to invest in when Perry was for them and touting all the joys and advantages they offered for those who could afford it. I was still posting against Destination Clubs when Perry changed and decided they were a bad idea (except for the very highest dollar DC's and chains  which I don't think he ever turned on).

I was against condotels when Perry was for them, and when he decided to be against them I was still not a fan of condotels.

I thought a $100,000 week in Vegas at Planet Hollywood was an absurd idea when Perry was advising everyone to buy before it wass too late. I assume Perry has rversed his position and is now no longer suggesting that people invest in Planet hollywood, and I still feel the same way as before.

For the record I am against converting to Marriott points for a myriad of reasons and Perry is 100% for all to convert and become a points member. As my psychic powers are begining to kick in, let me state that I will still be opposed to joining the Marriott points club when Perry reverses his position and decides that points are not a good deal for owners.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> I was against Destination Clubs and was very vocal in my feelings that destinatin clubs were a bad deal for people to invest in when Perry was for them and touting all the joys and advantages they offered for those who could afford it. I was still posting against Destination Clubs when Perry changed and decided they were a bad idea (except for the very highest dollar DC's and chains  which I don't think he ever turned on).
> 
> I was against condotels when Perry was for them, and when he decided to be against them I was still not a fan of condotels.
> 
> ...



The problem is that nobody remembers that you were against all those things.  No matter what PerryM says, nobody can forget it.


----------



## tombo (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> The problem is that nobody remembers that you were against all those things.  No matter what PerryM says, nobody can forget it.



Agreed. Love him or hate him his posts, positions, and opinions are memorable.

Hey wait a minute, what you are saying is that I am not.


----------



## jerseygirl (Jun 29, 2010)

I guess you have to be REALLY old to remember when Perry's sailing club was the bestest timeshare in the whole wide world.  I admit to being very intrigued by his endorsement ... but, it's funny, I don't remember ever reading how that turned out.  

I too find him to be very entertaining -- he has a way with words, that's for sure!  

Perry -- come back, we miss you!  And, please rethink your position on this Marriott points club!!  For your sake, I'm glad you only own one week!


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> Agreed. Love him or hate him his posts, positions, and opinions are memorable.
> 
> Hey wait a minute, what you are saying is that I am not.



LOL.  People love hype.  Logic is too hard.

I can tell you this for sure.  If you claimed to be an expert in an area, I would give far more weight to what you told me than anything PerryM did.

That said, if I wanted to learn how to rent a week on eBay and I didn't know how to do it, I would purchase PerryM's eBook.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> I guess you have to be REALLY old to remember when Perry's sailing club was the bestest timeshare in the whole wide world.  I admit to being very intrigued by his endorsement ... but, it's funny, I don't remember ever reading how that turned out.
> 
> I too find him to be very entertaining -- he has a way with words, that's for sure!
> 
> Perry -- come back, we miss you!  And, please rethink your position on this Marriott points club!!  For your sake, I'm glad you only own one week!



I believe it was Windjammer.  I don't think he owns it any longer.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

PerryM and Carolinian were two of my favorite posters.  I wish they both came back for some more duels.


----------



## ldanna (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> I thought a $100,000 week in Vegas at Planet Hollywood was an absurd idea when Perry was advising everyone to buy before it wass too late. I assume Perry has rversed his position and is now no longer suggesting that people invest in Planet hollywood, and I still feel the same way as before.



If you think a $100,000 week in Vegas (or anywhere else) is a good idea, you need to have your brain checked.

Only Alan can affort something like that (when he's not playing horn) :hysterical:


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

ldanna said:


> If you think a $100,000 week in Vegas (or anywhere else) is a good idea, you need to have your brain checked.
> 
> Only Alan can affort something like that (when he's not playing horn) :hysterical:



Yeah, but PerryM justified it because it was a Penthouse unit for New Year's Week.  He was going to rent it for $10,000 for the week.

I think you can get that week for $349 as a getaway now.  LOL.


----------



## m61376 (Jun 29, 2010)

hipslo said:


> You did????  I remembered you as a highly skeptical voice on HCC on steamboat's old forum when everyone else was gloating about the great vacations they were getting for peanuts, making fun of all of us low- rent timeshare owners.   I agreed with most of what you said at the time.  At that time, Perry was a very vocal opponent of the DC model, as well.



Brian- I have to admit- your original criticisms and Perry's made me evaluate HCC with different eyes and, unlike you, I listened to your gut reaction.


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 29, 2010)

*It's right - its wrong - maybe its both?*



BocaBum99 said:


> Yeah, but PerryM justified it because it was a Penthouse unit for New Year's Week.  He was going to rent it for $10,000 for the week.
> 
> I think you can get that week for $349 as a getaway now.  LOL.



And like the DC, Condo Hotels, super sailing ships and more Perry was FOR IT prior to "correcting" and becoming against it. It's hard to say you were ever wrong if over time you took both sides. 

I wouldn't trust this latest 180 turn around any more than I have the past ones. Pick a position and live with it. That has never been the Perry MO.   I feel sorry for those that took the first or maybe the second opinion  or was it the third - as the way to go.  We see at least one $30K post that was partially based on Perry's thought du jour.  That's one too many.


----------



## ace2000 (Jun 29, 2010)

PerryM said:


> So fire up the black helicopters and keep 'em buzzing guys..........


 

Warning, Warning, Warning... black helicopters everywhere...

Save the women and children first!


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Brian- I have to admit- your original criticisms and Perry's made me evaluate HCC with different eyes and, unlike you, I listened to your gut reaction.



The problem is that we shouldn't be listening to gut reactions.  We should be sticking to the principals of the financial analysis.  HCC never made good financial sense.  The deposit was unsecured and interest free with no possible equity appreciation and no liquidity.  Let me repeat that.

*The deposit was unsecured and interest free with no possible equity appreciation and no liquidity*

Why would anyone invest in ANYTHING with those attributes?  Right there was the show stopper.  Didn't have to go any further than that to reject the concept out of hand.

Also, wasn't there a hedge fund manager who defended Destination Clubs?  I told them Hedge Funds and Destination Clubs were the biggest Trust me industries on the planet.  He went on to tell me how sophisticated the systems and clients are and that I was completely wrong about it.  How many hedge funds went bust in the past 2 years?  Just as I thought.  So, much for sophisticated clients who got Bernie Madoffed by their hedge fund manager.


----------



## thheath (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> PerryM and Carolinian were two of my favorite posters.  I wish they both came back for some more duels.



*I totally agree about "Carolinian"; knowledgeable, excellent advice, willing to share and help.*


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*How Alan Got Rich.*




ldanna said:


> Only Alan can affort something like that (when he's not playing horn)


Alan can only afford life's luxuries by pinching pennies all along the way -- i.e., by not buying full-freight timeshares, by paying cash for everything (no E-Z payment plan), by not running around on his wife, by not jumping from secure employment into high-flying speculative positions, by buying practically everything used except toothbrushes & underwear, etc. 

Over time I came to understand that everything either costs money or brings in money.   Hardly any human activity is revenue-neutral.  For example, if all I do is stay home & get romantic with The Chief Of Staff, the home has got to be paid for -- ditto the utilities, food in the pantry & fridge, our clothes & furniture, everything.   First things 1st. 

We don't carry the income-producing idea to Charles Givens extremes, however.  Chuck & his associates recommend having no hobbies, only businesses -- also going on no vacations, only business trips.  They say have no friends, only customers & business associates, etc.  That's taking matters too far, in our view -- past the point where it's fun.  We don't take it that far.  

But we do watch what we spend & we sell stuff instead of throwing it away if it has any Craig's List or eBay value.  As a result, we have more money than we know what to do with.  We can buy any blasted thing we want & we can go to luxury penthouse condos on New Year's Eve if we want.  Just because we can afford it, however, doesn't mean we do it. 

Last year, on a trip out West to see our son & daughter-in-law & granddaughter, we made side trips to Lincoln CA & Reno NV.  I mentioned to an old friend in Florida (since deceased) that we took the California Zephyr from Emeryville CA to Roseville CA, got picked up there by friends who took us to their home in Lincoln CA for the afternoon, then got dropped off at the Greyhound Bus station in Sacramento CA, where we got on a bus that took us to the front door of the Circus Circus Reno, where we had reservations. 

"Wait a minute -- wait a minute!" the guy said. "You're a retired G. S. Fifteen & you took the _Greyhound Bus_ ?"  He said it as though it were the most unheard of thing he'd ever heard of.  I laughed & explained that it was a matter of timing more than of dollars & cents -- that the bus left & arrived exactly on our schedule, that taking the train after an afternoon in Lincoln CA would have meant waiting till the next day, & that renting a car would have cost more money without saving us any time -- plus, we'd have to drive over unfamiliar mountains at night.  So we took the bus. 

"I'll be damned," my friend said. 

That's how we got rich, how we live like rich folks regardless of how much or little we spend, & how we have fun in the process. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## m61376 (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> The problem is that we shouldn't be listening to gut reactions.  We should be sticking to the principals of the financial analysis.  HCC never made good financial sense.  The deposit was unsecured and interest free with no possible equity appreciation and no liquidity.  Let me repeat that.
> 
> *The deposit was unsecured and interest free with no possible equity appreciation and no liquidity*
> 
> ...



Of course- and that's why I never pursued it when I realized that it was an unsecured loan on faith, essentially. What I meant was that Brian's initial instincts turned out to be true.


----------



## JimIg23 (Jun 29, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Brian- I have to admit- your original criticisms and Perry's made me evaluate HCC with different eyes and, unlike you, I listened to your gut reaction.



I came very close to buying also.    It was that or Marriott.


----------



## jerseygirl (Jun 29, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Of course- and that's why I never pursued it when I realized that it was an unsecured loan on faith, essentially. What I meant was that Brian's initial instincts turned out to be true.



After HCC issued the "TUG ONLY" offer of a one-year trial membership for $20K or $30K, I sent them an email asking if the $20K/$30K would be placed in an escrow account.  When I didn't get a response, I knew the answer!


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

m61376 said:


> Of course- and that's why I never pursued it when I realized that it was an unsecured loan on faith, essentially. What I meant was that Brian's initial instincts turned out to be true.



I had lunch with Steamboat Bill in Boca Raton at the Chili's near Town Centre Mall when he asked me about Destination Clubs.  This was before he bought into it and started the DC forum here on TUG.

He was so high on it and at that time I told him it was a very bad idea.  No matter what logic I shared with him, he wanted to do it because of the luxury accommodations. He genuinely liked the business model for a high end luxury client.  I hated it since there was no way to make money or arbitrage it.

He said it wasn't much money for him and he was going to do it anyway.  The rest is history.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

As we learned in the movie Road Warrior's, never play a game where 2 men enter, 1 man leaves.  That is the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.


----------



## tombo (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I had lunch with Steamboat Bill in Boca Raton at the Chili's near Town Centre Mall when he asked me about Destination Clubs.  This was before he bought into it and started the DC forum here on TUG.
> 
> He was so high on it and at that time I told him it was a very bad idea.  No matter what logic I shared with him, he wanted to do it because of the luxury accommodations. He genuinely liked the business model for a high end luxury client.  I hated it since there was no way to make money or arbitrage it.
> 
> He said it wasn't much money for him and he was going to do it anyway.  The rest is history.



Ah yes, steamboat bill. He couldn't stand that I would respond to his rave reviews of DC's and attempts to get everyone to join HCC before the price went up with logic showing why it was too big of a risk. He tried to get me banned from posting on the DC forum here on TUG because I was always telling people not to do it while he was touting the great benefits to be had by joining HCC. Isn't it great that myself Boca, and others were allowed to expose the risks and reasons to not join DC's on TUG rather than only allowing proponents to post there. Perhaps more than a few saved themselves tens of thousands of dollars listening to dissenting views rather than swallowing the sales pitches from the DC cheerleaders hook line, and sinker.

Hopefully some of our concerns about the new points program and exposure of skims, loss of voting power, and other things discussed here will convince many to not convert to points too. Ain't TUG a great place? :whoopie:


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

tombo said:


> Ah yes, steamboat bill. He couldn't stand that I would respond to his rave reviews of DC's and attempts to get everyone to join HCC before the price went up with logic showing why it was too big of a risk. He tried to get me banned from posting on the DC forum here on TUG because I was always telling people not to do it while he was touting the great benefits to be had by joining HCC. Isn't it great that myself Boca, and others were allowed to expose the risks and reasons to not join DC's on TUG rather than only allowing proponents to post there. Perhaps more than a few saved themselves tens of thousands of dollars listening to dissenting views rather than swallowing the sales pitches from the DC cheerleaders hook line, and sinker.
> 
> Hopefully some of our concerns about the new points program and exposure of skims, loss of voting power, and other things discussed here will convince many to not convert to points too. Ain't TUG a great place? :whoopie:



This is the utility of PerryM.  He gets people focused on discussing topics.  No matter what position he takes, all the other positions come out.  If a person is willing to review the posts rationally, then they will come up with the truth.  That is powerful.  So, no matter how much I disagree with PerryM on many topics, he is a very valuable poster to this message board.


----------



## thheath (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> As we learned in the movie Road Warrior's, never play a game where 2 men enter, 1 man leaves.  That is the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.




Good one; another of my favorites is:

Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. (The Outlaw Josey Wales 1976)

I've always thought it as good advice after buying from a developer and finding TUG... after the recision period...


----------



## pfrank4127 (Jun 29, 2010)

*Nice Post*



AwayWeGo said:


> Alan can only afford life's luxuries by pinching pennies all along the way -- i.e., by not buying full-freight timeshares, by paying cash for everything (no E-Z payment plan), by not running around on his wife, by not jumping from secure employment into high-flying speculative positions, by buying practically everything used except toothbrushes & underwear, etc.
> 
> Over time I came to understand that everything either costs money or brings in money.   Hardly any human activity is revenue-neutral.  For example, if all I do is stay home & get romantic with The Chief Of Staff, the home has got to be paid for -- ditto the utilities, food in the pantry & fridge, our clothes & furniture, everything.   First things 1st.
> 
> ...



That is a nice post and an excellent way to live life.  If more people followed this life style their wouldn't be so many people in financial crisis.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 29, 2010)

*"Were"?   What Do You Mean, "Were" ?*




BocaBum99 said:


> PerryM and Carolinian were two of my favorite posters.  I wish they both came back for some more duels.


What have you heard ?

They're both sill members & participants in good standing, no ? 

They certainly enrich the content around here.  It wouldn't be the same without them. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## billymach4 (Jun 29, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> I had lunch with Steamboat Bill in Boca Raton at the Chili's near Town Centre Mall when he asked me about Destination Clubs.  This was before he bought into it and started the DC forum here on TUG.
> 
> He was so high on it and at that time I told him it was a very bad idea.  No matter what logic I shared with him, he wanted to do it because of the luxury accommodations. He genuinely liked the business model for a high end luxury client.  I hated it since there was no way to make money or arbitrage it.
> 
> He said it wasn't much money for him and he was going to do it anyway.  The rest is history.



I guess he ran out of Steam. Now he is under water.


----------



## billymach4 (Jun 29, 2010)

OMG!

Where has this thread gone. 

I always sort of have taken Perry with a grain of salt. To me he is an eloquent writer, and is very entertaining. 

I am sure underneath it all he is a decent human just like the rest of us. Just use your own judgment and make decisions based on your own personal situation with the facts on the table.

I was simply happy to know who was behind the marriott-timeshares dot net. It was as I said educational and entertaining!


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 29, 2010)

AwayWeGo said:


> What have you heard ?
> 
> They're both sill members & participants in good standing, no ?
> 
> ...



Perry hit and runs.  Carolinian posts almost every day on timeshare forums mostly in the political forum.


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## tombo (Jun 30, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> Perry hit and runs.  Carolinian posts almost every day on timeshare forums mostly in the political forum.



Post something postive about Delta Airlines and you will know quickly if Carolinian is reading the posts. It is like shining the bat beacon in the sky, Carolinian will come to fight when Delta is praised.


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## cruisin (Jun 30, 2010)

I always thought Delta was great, is there something I don't know about?


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 30, 2010)

billymach4 said:


> OMG!
> 
> Where has this thread gone.
> 
> ...



Well said! 

Somebody sent me a PM with Perry's post that got scrubbed.  I'm sorry, but I really don't see the big deal and why it got scrubbed.  Yes, he included his new website in his post, but a lot of people include their websites in their signatures and even post websites periodically.

May I remind people that Perry didn't start this thread or the other recent one about him.  So, IMO it doesn't look like he asked for the recent publicity he's been getting although he probably doesn't mind it.

I find him entertaining and thought provoking although I don't agree with him most of the time.  Like I said, I haven't lost one dime on anything that Perry has said in the past and he did help me one time with a Marriott specific question I had a couple of years ago.

Agree with him or not, his positions and posts certainly contribute to discussions on different topics.


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## ace2000 (Jun 30, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> I find him entertaining and thought provoking although I don't agree with him most of the time. Like I said, I haven't lost one dime on anything that Perry has said in the past and he did help me one time with a Marriott specific question I had a couple of years ago.


 
Not sure you'd be saying the same thing if you did follow his advice and flushed 30K of your net worth down the toilet (or more). I personally haven't, but can understand why some would have some hard feelings... and then he keeps doing it. Why?


----------



## ldanna (Jun 30, 2010)

AwayWeGo said:


> That's how we got rich, how we live like rich folks regardless of how much or little we spend, & how we have fun in the process.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



The fun part is the most important part of the process. 

I am receiving compliments for my new Zegna tie, and nobody need to know I bought it on a super sale at Saks for only $17 (instead of the regular $200). It's the same tie and it's new. Great.

It's so hard for people doing what is the best option instead of doing what will look more glamorous to others, like the Greyhound bus example.

My father used to say we have to spend a lot more time and effort to spend our money than earning it, and he's right. That's the only way we can finish a month with some money left in the bank (or more money we had last month).

Alan, thanks for being around with your wisdom!  

PS: I always liked Perry, always very friendly with me. That doesn't mean I have to agree or even follow his advises. Even if I do, I won't blame him, I am the only one to blame for my actions.

And Tombo, thank for your imputs, too. Your coments are always worth reading. BocaBum, too.

That's why I love this place. Even when people disagree with you, we all learn something. And the most important part: it's fun!


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## KathyPet (Jun 30, 2010)

Rumor has it that Alan was spotted shopping for underwear at the Salvation Army thrift store!


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## tombo (Jun 30, 2010)

cruisin said:


> I always thought Delta was great, is there something I don't know about?



I can only surmise that Carolinian is not reading this thread since there has been no response to praises for Delta. If you post a positive testimonial about Delta on the travel thread however, I feel sure Carolinian will reappear.


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 30, 2010)

tombo said:


> Post something postive about Delta Airlines and you will know quickly if Carolinian is reading the posts. It is like shining the bat beacon in the sky, Carolinian will come to fight when Delta is praised.



:hysterical: That's the truth.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 30, 2010)

ace2000 said:


> Not sure you'd be saying the same thing if you did follow his advice and flushed 30K of your net worth down the toilet (or more). I personally haven't, but can understand why some would have some hard feelings... and then he keeps doing it. Why?



Even if I did, which I haven't, I would like to think I would take the blame on myself and not blame some fairly anonymous person in an internet chat room.

Sorry, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions and not scapegoat things out.


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## Clemson Fan (Jun 30, 2010)

ldanna said:


> PS: I always liked Perry, always very friendly with me. That doesn't mean I have to agree or even follow his advises. Even if I do, I won't blame him, I am the only one to blame for my actions.
> 
> And Tombo, thank for your imputs, too. Your coments are always worth reading. BocaBum, too.
> 
> That's why I love this place. Even when people disagree with you, we all learn something. And the most important part: it's fun!



Amen to that!


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## taffy19 (Jun 30, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> Amen to that!


Ditto!  It makes this board not only informative but also fun or interesting to read.


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## Bear1980 (Jul 1, 2010)

tombo said:


> I was against Destination Clubs and was very vocal in my feelings that destinatin clubs were a bad deal for people to invest in when Perry was for them and touting all the joys and advantages they offered for those who could afford it. I was still posting against Destination Clubs when Perry changed and decided they were a bad idea (except for the very highest dollar DC's and chains  which I don't think he ever turned on).
> 
> I was against condotels when Perry was for them, and when he decided to be against them I was still not a fan of condotels.
> 
> ...



Tombo, can I ask what you don't like about the Points program?

I'm personally not interested in paying to enroll in the program with my two Maui deeds...for that reason alone.


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## Clemson Fan (Jul 10, 2010)

I just looked at Perry's e-book and I think it's fairly obvious that he hasn't been secretly swept away by a black helicopter and hired by Marriott.  There's no way Marriott would sanction a lot of the humor used in the book.

Just as I suspected, it looks like all he's doing is trying to use his knowledge to create a business for himself and I applaud him for the effort.


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## GregT (Jul 10, 2010)

Bear1980 said:


> Tombo, can I ask what you don't like about the Points program?
> 
> I'm personally not interested in paying to enroll in the program with my two Maui deeds...for that reason alone.



Bear,

I would keep an open mind about enrolling.   I am one of the original critics of the system (I wrote a letter to Marriott ripping them for skimming) but there is a lot that I like about points programs in general and the Marriott properties specifically.

I have two Maui deeds myself and at the moment, I expect to enroll them but *don't intend to ever actually redeem the deeds for points *-- I'll use them as I always have, for personal use.   

I expect two things to develop that will be very interesting to me:   1) I believe that a FlexChange program will be introduced allowing short-term travel at discounted points pricing and 2) I expect a vibrant points rental market will develop (like it has with Worldmark) so you can book reservations using rented points (therefore not needing to use your skimmed points).   

Personally, I live very close to Palm Desert and Newport Coast, and Tahoe is an easy flight and if I can get these at FlexChange (and using rented points) that is a valuable addition to my timesharing plans.  Additionally, even if I want to go to St. Thomas or Ko Olina for a longer trip, I can rent the needed points.  These are options that I have simply by enrolling -- and importantly, I differentiate enrolling from any actual redemption of my weeks for points.    

I really like Ko Olina, and there is ALOT of Ko Olina inventory in the Trust -- if Marriott's FlexChange (when introduced) is similar to the one in the Asia Pacific program, a week at Ko Olina could likely be reserved for 1,000 points, and I can rent those points for $400 - $500, maybe even less if the renter's points are expiring (yes, I acknowledge there are many assumptions/ifs in this post).   If I'm wrong, I'm out the up-front since the annual fees would likely have been spent anyway in other areas (lock-off and II trades).

It's not a simple decision for any of us -- I still can't believe Marriott skimmed and it's negatively impacted the way I view Marriott's commitment to its customers (I'm a Hilton HHonors person now -- they matched my Marriott Platinum status in the rewards program as a courtesy).   I firmly believe they skimmed everybody specifically so that skimmed owner is XXX points short of really being able to use the system and therefore would need to buy 1,000 points.  There are other ways they could have incentivized the purchase of those 1,000 points that would not have been punitive and arbitrary.

So, I'll stay in Hiltons now (for the first time since 2001) and I'll find a way to take advantage of the Marriott points system and avoid being skimmed.   

Good luck with your decision.

Best to all,

Greg


----------



## DanCali (Jul 10, 2010)

GregT said:


> I expect to enroll them but *don't intend to ever actually redeem the deeds for points *-- I'll use them as I always have, for personal use.



What does it say about the points program when most of what we hear is that the people who plan to enroll don't intend to ver redeem for points???



> I expect a vibrant points rental market will develop (like it has with Worldmark) so you can book reservations using rented points (therefore not needing to use your skimmed points).




It will take a long time, if ever, for a vibrant rental market to develop if most of the people who enroll do not plan to ever redeem for points 

For a vibrant rental market to deveop, buying and using points has to be an attractive value proposition. 

Is buying at $10/point attractive? Is getting skimmed when you use them attractive?


----------



## tombo (Jul 10, 2010)

GregT said:


> Bear,
> 
> I would keep an open mind about enrolling.   I am one of the original critics of the system (I wrote a letter to Marriott ripping them for skimming) but there is a lot that I like about points programs in general and the Marriott properties specifically.
> 
> ...



It is nowhere in writing that flexchange is coming. Why join a program hoping they introduce something that doesn't exist now? If flexchange does materialize, you will have to deposit your week and use points to get flexchanges, giving Marriott their skim of points that should have been yours. And as Dancali  said (and you said too), virtually nobody on TUG wants to deposit their weeks into points because of the skim. No weeks in, no points to rent. As Dancali also said at $10 a point, not many buyers of points will rent those precious points cheaply. So the points program sucks and the best thing about the program is two things that you think might happen, but you will probably join hoping those two things occur?

I am curious as to why you would agree the skim is a rip off, complain to Marriott about the poor treatment of owners, and then play right into their hands and join. Why not instead tell them you refuse to convert? 


If enough people raise cain and say no to points, perhaps they will realize that they can't treat owners so badly and have a successful points conversion lauch. However if so many owners here on TUG and owners who never heard of TUG agree the points program is a rip-off, but join anyway, then marriott was right, they can treat owners as bad as they want to and people will still pay marriott money to convert to a bad program because 1.They hope it will get better with possible future enhancements (don't bet on that) or 2. out of fear that not converting will leave them out in the cold with limited access to inventory in the future (a big possibility). Almost nobody like the POINTS part of the POINTS program, but many are joining anyway. 

I for one will not pay them money to convert to a program which is bad. IMO just tell Marriot to shove their skimmed points. Don't reward them for developing a points program which is bad for most owners, but as always is  good for Marriott.


----------



## tombo (Jul 10, 2010)

Bear1980 said:


> Tombo, can I ask what you don't like about the Points program?
> 
> I'm personally not interested in paying to enroll in the program with my two Maui deeds...for that reason alone.



 I never saw this post so I wasn't ignoring you, I didn't know you asked me a question. I know that you have responded to my posts other threads and I assume you now know the reasons I don't like the new program, but feel free to ask me any questions if you are not sure why I don't like it.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 10, 2010)

tombo said:


> It is nowhere in writing that flexchange is coming. Why join a program hoping they introduce something that doesn't exist now?



For the exact same reason people buy "call options."  For a price, they preserve the right to get the feature in the future should it come along.  The price of this particular call option is the cost of conversion less the expected discounted value of fees saved over time.  Since there is currently a fee advantage in joining points, the cost goes down to near zero very quickly.

For me, $595 is the cheapest possible call option for open season/flexchange/bonus time.  The upside will be renting points from other owners for cheap and getting some terrific trade into points inventory.

In addition, it provides a hedge against Marriott manipulating the system to hold inventory in points that I won't have access to.  If I have a foot in both systems, I can figure out what Marriott is doing with inventory and play the correct side of the trade to get the best value.  

I encourage everyone to do what's best for them.  Read the facts and decide what you want and don't look back.

Just remember the Serenity Prayer:



> God, grant me the serenity
> To accept the things I cannot change;
> Courage to change the things I can;
> And wisdom to know the difference.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Jul 10, 2010)

GregT said:


> I expect two things to develop that will be very interesting to me:   1) I believe that a FlexChange program will be introduced allowing short-term travel at discounted points pricing and 2) I expect a vibrant points rental market will develop (like it has with Worldmark) so you can book reservations using rented points (therefore not needing to use your skimmed points).



You are almost there.  You are missing one benefit that makes converting totally worth it.

That benefit is that no matter how Marriott rigs the game, you have a foot on both sides of the fence and can play either side to your best advantage.

In the worst case, Marriott does a perfect job at matching supply and demand.  At the best case, they are so far off that it becomes totally obvious when to trade on the weeks side vs. the points side.

In the expected case, they will have constantly varying mismatches for supply and demand and you can figure out where they are and use either points or weeks to get what you want.

When you learn to play that game, you will be very pleased that you decided to convert.  And, you will feel badly for those who didn't take advantage of it when they could.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 10, 2010)

*Amen.*




> God, grant me the serenity
> To accept the things I cannot change;
> Courage to change the things I can;
> And wisdom to know the difference.


The trouble is, sometimes it's not so much _courage_ that's lacking as gumption or motivation or energy or willingness or want-to or something else. 

In any case, it is well to be able to accept the things one cannot change _mox nix. _

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jul 10, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> You are almost there.  You are missing one benefit that makes converting totally worth it.
> 
> That benefit is that no matter how Marriott rigs the game, you have a foot on both sides of the fence and can play either side to your best advantage.
> 
> ...





Well put!


.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 10, 2010)

*No Flexchange Option*

I honestly don't see Marriott offering any type of flexchange option that people would find useful. They currently have open season and also daily reservations at 10 months out. This is their version of flexchange.

I wouldn't expect Marriott to have very many full weeks left at say a 60 day mark to offer up full week flexchange options. They have to move them long before 60 days in order to fill the units. As it sits right now, any inventory they are holding at day 120 is usually long deposited in to II. This is why you often see resale buyers with current use year having to take replacement weeks months before the last week in their season.

Marriott may offer up some flexchange daily reservations, and they may discount it significantly. However if you are hoping for week long reservations with a flexchange system, you will surely be disappointed.

The new points system also won't have a large enough membership base to absorb the possible oversupply they may have. Those weeks can only go two place, on Marriott.com or in II. They can't unload what they have now on Marriott.com due to the prices they charge, so their only viable outlet is still II with their much larger base of members.


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## DanCali (Jul 10, 2010)

BocaBum99 said:


> For the exact same reason people buy "call options."



I thought you're not supposed to exercise a call before the expiration date... 

My point is that there is no deadline to enroll. The longer you wait the more you learn.


----------



## Clemson Fan (Jul 10, 2010)

Clemson Fan said:


> I just looked at Perry's e-book and I think it's fairly obvious that he hasn't been secretly swept away by a black helicopter and hired by Marriott. There's no way Marriott would sanction a lot of the humor used in the book.
> 
> Just as I suspected, it looks like all he's doing is trying to use his knowledge to create a business for himself and I applaud him for the effort.


 
Come on folks.  This thread was initially how some people believed Perry had joined forces with Marriott.  I didn't think that was the case initially and I certainly don't think it now having looked at his e-book.

Must every thread nowadays decompensate into repeating the same arguments for or against the points system over and over again ad nauseum?

FWIW, I side more with Boca and Perry on the points system, and while it's not perfect, I'm looking forward to enrolling my weeks in the new points system.


----------



## GregT (Jul 10, 2010)

tombo said:


> I am curious as to why you would agree the skim is a rip off, complain to Marriott about the poor treatment of owners, and then play right into their hands and join. Why not instead tell them you refuse to convert?



Good and fair points raised by all, thank you -- only in a couple of years will we know what the outcome was and if our decisions were correct.

But Marriott can't consider me a success story -- I'm no longer a hotel customer.  I've stayed almost exclusively at Marriott's for the last 10 years, approximately 20-40 nights each year (mostly in Manhattan, so at a pretty healthy rack rate).   My company held its National Sales Meeting at the Marriott World Center in Orlando -- we spent about $50K at that meeting.  

But now Hilton has an opportunity to try and take that business -- they matched my Platinum Marriott rewards status and I'm staying at the Hilton in a couple weeks when I go to NYC.  On Monday I signed up for a promotion package to go to HHV and will be going next year.  

So, yes Marriott gets my enrollment fee.  But they've destroyed the brand loyalty that they had -- and nothing changes my view that the skim is a rip off and callous treatment of its existing owners.   

Enrollment doesn't equate success for Marriott.

Best to all,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jul 10, 2010)

GregT said:


> Enrollment doesn't equate success for Marriott.
> 
> Best to all,
> 
> Greg



But to MVCI it does equal a vote of confidence and success.


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## m61376 (Jul 10, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> But to MVCI it does equal a vote of confidence and success.



I think the only way enrollment is truly a vote of confidence is IF those who enroll also convert to points.

I think some people will convert and utilize the system to save money on trade fees and also look forward to renting points from others and exploiting a very probably favorable rental market. Those with flexibility may benefit from a Flexchange type program, in the likely event (in my opinion) that it does, in fact, develop.


So joining will not necessarily give Marriott what it wants. That said, if I do join, it won't be until the end of the year. I am too skeptical about the program, I am not sure if the "insurance value" of preserving options outweighs the negatives and I do agree that if a lot of people jump on the bandwagon it will give the perception that except for a small group of disgruntled big mouths people are overall happy. But I do feel that Marriott may find that the true "vote of confidence" is far less than the initial numbers joining may suggest.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 10, 2010)

m61376 said:


> I think the only way enrollment is truly a vote of confidence is IF those who enroll also convert to points.
> 
> I think some people will convert and utilize the system to save money on trade fees and also look forward to renting points from others and exploiting a very probably favorable rental market. Those with flexibility may benefit from a Flexchange type program, in the likely event (in my opinion) that it does, in fact, develop.
> 
> ...



Actually, it depends on the objective Marriott has for the program.  Ultimately, they want to sell off and profit from the selling of points inventory.

However, a secondary objective is to make sure it gains access to the high demand weeks that it's points customers want.  If Marriott just does nothing to address the supply/demand imbalance of inventory at the various resorts, it will have an increasingly difficult time selling to owners whom they clearly want to upgrade.

So near term, I'll bet one of the key objectives for Marriott is to get as many owners signing up so that they have access to their weeks.  It's for this reason that I believe that Marriott will attempt to get or already has control of weeks deposits when an owner enrolls into the point program.


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