# I'm thinking about cancelling



## Rachabbi77 (Oct 3, 2009)

Hi everyone.

My husband and I just purchased 3,400 annual points at the Hilton Parc Soleil in Orlando FL.  The cost was nearly $17,000 and we had to put $2,000 down.  We are still in the rescind period, and after reading all of the posts, we are thinking we should go ahead and do so.  Everybody keeps talking about buying it resale and saving a ton of money...but I'm not sure where to buy it from.

I remember our sales agent saying that it was strictly prohibited by Hilton to purchase a Hilton Time Share from anybody OTHER than Hilton. If this is true, how can it be possible for us to get one?

Thanks a bunch!


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## Karen G (Oct 3, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> I remember our sales agent saying that it was strictly prohibited by Hilton to purchase a Hilton Time Share from anybody OTHER than Hilton. If this is true, how can it be possible for us to get one?


Absolutely rescind while you still can.  You get just this one chance to rescind and once the rescission period has passed, you are out of luck. Take some time to do some research and after you fully understand what all is involved in timesharing and HGVC, then you'll be in a better position to buy what suits you best.

You certainly CAN buy Hilton timeshares on the resale market. Just Google and you'll find a lot for sale. Keep in mind that the prices you find are just "asking" prices and units often sell for much less.  Look on Ebay and look at some completed sales to get an idea of what timeshare resales are going for.

 As I understand it, the HGVC plan is a points-based system and points are points, no matter what your home resort may be.  If you truly want to be in the HGVC system, I would think you could buy  the resort with the lowest maintenance fees that affords you with the most points.

Hopefully, some HGVC owners will soon shed more light on this subject.


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## Talent312 (Oct 3, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> I remember our sales agent saying that it was strictly prohibited by Hilton to purchase a Hilton Time Share from anybody OTHER than Hilton. If this is true, how can it be possible for us to get one?



*That is an outright lie. You can buy the same points for ~ 1/4 the $$ (or more points if you want).*
IOW, you've been had. Many of us HGVC'ers have bought resale, and we are treated the same as if we had bought direct from Hilton, 'cept only for elite status at 14K-points (which ain't really worth the difference in price).

That's not to say that there isn't some comfort value in buying from a developer, or that HGVC isn't a great system. It is a very flexible system and many of us owners enjoy it immensely!  But it seems that all TS sales cretins operate out of the same playbook.  RESCIND while you have the chance and look into resale. Then make an informed decision.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Oct 3, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> 
> I remember our sales agent saying that it was strictly prohibited by Hilton to purchase a Hilton Time Share from anybody OTHER than Hilton. If this is true, how can it be possible for us to get one?
> ...



Just remember the TUG mantra: If a timeshare salesperson's lips are moving, he/she is lying


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## Rachabbi77 (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks, everybody. We will be sending our cancellation letter out first thing Monday morning. 

One more question: If Hilton has the first right of refusal to buy back your timeshare, is there any way that the resale will not be "approved" by HGVC?


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## ricoba (Oct 3, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> Thanks, everybody. We will be sending our cancellation letter out first thing Monday morning.
> 
> One more question: If Hilton has the first right of refusal to buy back your timeshare, is there any way that the resale will not be "approved" by HGVC?




Good Decision. 

It appears that due to the economy Hilton is not as aggressive in doing rights of first refusal.

Take your time and ask questions here and save a lot of money!


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## riz (Oct 3, 2009)

You certainly can buy HGVC via resale.  We did.  We closed escrow on around the 16th of Sep and now waiting for Hilton to record the info and give us our membership details and login.  Any day now.

Purchased 5000 Pts (Gold 2BR) Flamingo thru Judi.  We had sorta thought about time shares before and went to a Marriott presentation about 20 months ago and Hilton LV Strip (both in Vegas) in July.  
We really did like the sound of Hilton but didn't want to pay the prices they wanted then (7000 pts == $35k, 4800 Pts ==32k).  Came back home, became a member again on here on TUG, read more and later found what we thought was a decent price, so we bought.  Now just waiting to get our stuff from Hilton, considering we still have this years points to deal with (to be rescued and moved to next year.)  I continue to read here and learn from others.  I would certainly say that unless you are 100% sure this is what you want, you rescind.  They will still be there later if you want to purchase direct from Hilton.


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## Talent312 (Oct 3, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> Thanks, everybody. We will be sending our cancellation letter out first thing Monday morning.
> 
> One more question: If Hilton has the first right of refusal to buy back your timeshare, is there any way that the resale will not be "approved" by HGVC?



In cancelling, follow the procedure stated in your materials to the letter. Even if you think you know a better way, they will use any discrepancy to deny the cancellation.

HGVC uses its ROFR only in cases where the price is _really_ low, too low to pass up. A while back, it was indicated that Hilton would pass if the price was at least $2/point for platinum units, $1.75 for gold, $1.50 for silver, with a premium for Hawaii resorts. However, recent reports suggest that those numbers currently lower (perhaps ~ $0.25/point lower). BTW, they don't have a ROFR for sales at Flamingo (it was sold out b4 they started using it).

To get "approval" the parties to submit their contract to HGVC along with a form requesting a waiver.  Typically, the waiver is approved and returned to the closing agent in two to three weeks.


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## chriskre (Oct 3, 2009)

Hi,
I just PM'd you some details of a recent purchase similar to what you are looking for that I just did on the resale market.  Good luck to you.


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## Bill4728 (Oct 3, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> In cancelling, follow the procedure stated in your materials to the letter. Even if you think you know a better way, they will use any discrepancy to deny the cancellation.


AS he said, follow the directions to the letter.  It could cost you $17,000 if you do not.


> HGVC uses its ROFR only in cases where the price is _really_ low, too low to pass up. A while back, it was indicated that Hilton would pass if the price was at least $2/point for platinum units, $1.75 for gold, $1.50 for silver, with a premium for Hawaii resorts. However, recent reports suggest that those numbers currently lower (perhaps ~ $0.25/point lower). BTW, they don't have a ROFR for sales at Flamingo (it was sold out b4 they started using it).
> 
> To get "approval" the parties to submit their contract to HGVC along with a form requesting a waiver.  Typically, the waiver is approved and returned to the closing agent in two to three weeks.


ROFR was something that several of the hotel based TS companies used to use all the time to keep their resale prices high. BUT now that doesn't seem to be true.

You can buy 7000 HGVC Sea World points for about $10,000  and be preety sure it will pass ROFR. So for a little more than 1/2 of what you paid, you can get 2 times the number of points.


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## bosco0633 (Oct 4, 2009)

Wow unreal the lengths that they go to in order to discourage resale.  If you are looking for a great resale agent, Give Judi Kozlowski with Orlando Remax a call.  She is a very reputable resale agent and will make the entire process very easy and enjoyable.

Her number is 1800 541-5666 ext. 622.  

I have purchased 2 now with her and she is wonderful. She uses an amazing closing company as well, which is so important when closing resale.  

Good luck and you will learn alot here at TUG.  Welcome.


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## bosco0633 (Oct 4, 2009)

if I can add as well.  I initially thought that HGVC would try and screw me over after not purchasing through them.  I thought that if they figured that I canceled my purchase then purchased resale they would deliberately screw me and exercise on ROFR.  

But like another member said with the state of the economy the way it is right now, Hilton is very liberal in what is passing.  I have heard that they have no more budget this year to purchase.  The money that is put aside for this did not take into account the crummy economy.

This is why you are hearing sales like 3800.00 for 5000 points, one tug member just purchased 7000 points for 6300.00 and both of these passed ROFR.  

It is not to say that you will be able to find this price, but right now is the best possible time to purchase resale if you can afford to.  If the 17,000 was affordable, I would atleast purchase a 7000 point 2 bedroom platinum for around 9000 to 11000 depending on the seller.

the only other thing to remember is that Parc Soleil is new and there will  not be a lot of resales just yet.  So if there are they may be expensive.  Im not sure how much you know about HGVC but it doesnt really matter where you own.  Points are points, except you can book a year in advance at your home resort, and you wont have to pay a booking fee for the week that you book.  

But when you learn the points system, you will see that owning points, will allow you to take several vacations with your one week instead of blowing the entire week in just one visit.

But that is for another day, and right now rescinding and purchasing resale is your first step.

Good luck


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## Zac495 (Oct 5, 2009)

Smart choice.Take your time. you can buy for a FRACTION of that!!!


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## GTLINZ (Oct 5, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My husband and I just purchased 3,400 annual points at the Hilton Parc Soleil in Orlando FL.  The cost was nearly $17,000 and we had to put $2,000 down.  We are still in the rescind period, and after reading all of the posts, we are thinking we should go ahead and do so.  Everybody keeps talking about buying it resale and saving a ton of money...but I'm not sure where to buy it from.
> 
> ...



Run, Forest, Run !!!!

And yes, follow the rescind instructions to the letter of the law. I did and am thankful (we just bought the 5000 point one time package).

When considering which package to buy you need to remember maint fees. No matter how many points you get, the fees are based on the unit size so 1br plat (4800 points) has the same fixed yearly cost as 1 br gold (3400 points) or 1 br silver (2400 points). If you were willing to spend $17k on a 3400 point package (1 br), just think of what you can do with a 4800 point 1br SeaWorld unit (some of the most reasonable maint fees) that goes for under $7k (add $1k for closing). I suspect the yearly maint fees are also less than Parc Soliel. You can get the $3400 point package under $4k also, but the extra points were worth it to me. Seth Nock is great and you can find him thru his website at www.sellingtimeshares.net

Good luck and welcome to Hilton !


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## JonathanIT (Oct 5, 2009)

I am sad to hear that HGVC sales people are now outright lying.  I know that they can be VERY high pressure... to the point of frustration sometimes... but usually when pressed on the finer points they will not outright lie.  At least IME.  

I know that many times they give the wrong information, but I would not call them "lies" because frankly they do not know much about the finer points of the complex HGVC point system (we here on TUG are the true experts! lol).  Most of the stories of "my sales person told me...." which are not true I think can be attributed to this.  

Also, sure, they can _bend_ the truth... omit certain facts when not asked about them... give a certain impression... these are the finer points to being a high volume sales person and an astute consumer can usually see through these ploys.

But it is clear that if you are correct in the facts then what he told you was an outright lie, and he knew it.

Also one thing about the HGVC operation is that they usually do not try to snake out of legitimate rescission notifications.  I would DEFINITELY be careful about following the procedure exactly (as others have posted), but I would not worry about HGVC being "a scam" and not honoring the rescission.  At least I hope this has not changed recently either!

HGVC is really a class operation as far as management and customer service; they are among the best in the business.  I hope that their marketing and sales techniques do not sink to levels that will ruin their reputation overall.

This particular sales agent may have been in violation of rules of his own company by lying to you.  I would suggest in addition to rescinding the sale that you inform his superior about what happened and that you were lied to.  He should be reprimanded (or fired!) for telling you such an outrageous lie.  Officially, I don't think HGVC corporate can possibly condone such behavior.


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## Talent312 (Oct 6, 2009)

JonathanIT said:


> I am sad to hear that HGVC sales people are now outright lying.  I know that they can be VERY high pressure... to the point of frustration sometimes... but usually when pressed on the finer points they will not outright lie.  At least IME...



I would also agree that HGVC management would not instruct their sales-staff to lie and would perhaps disown one who was "found out." I think its more likely that HGVC turns a blind eye to the practices of its sales division, believing that, as long as they produce the numbers, all is well.   Fortunately that hasn't stopped those of us who understand that they have a great product and historically have been very consumer friendly... once you're in the door.

IME, there's a cultural norm in the "sales" world, be it car sales, furniture sales, paint sales, or timeshare sales, its okay to "misstate" a fact -- after all, a mistake (even if known to be one) is not a technically a lie... or at least that's what these peeps believe.

A Nissan salesman recently told me three lies a competing Mazda model:
1. "Ford owns Mazda. If you're thinking of buying a Mazda, you're really buying a Ford." 
-- At one time, Ford owned ~ 34% of Mazda, but much of that has been sold. They've
cooperated in some joint projects, but Mazda never sold a Ford under its name.
2. "Mazda uses timing belts in their engines, not chains like Nissan." -- Simply false.
3. "This trunk is larger than that Mazda model." -- Again, false.

Nonetheless, I bought the Nissan. Why? The "truth" was that it was a superior product, w/o the lies.
Too bad, sales-cretins, whereever they are, don't seem to get that.


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## timeos2 (Oct 6, 2009)

*The mouth was moving so the lies were spewing - buy resale & be happy*



Rachabbi77 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My husband and I just purchased 3,400 annual points at the Hilton Parc Soleil in Orlando FL.  The cost was nearly $17,000 and we had to put $2,000 down.  We are still in the rescind period, and after reading all of the posts, we are thinking we should go ahead and do so.  Everybody keeps talking about buying it resale and saving a ton of money...but I'm not sure where to buy it from.
> 
> ...



Buy resale as there is NO truth to the "other than Hilton prohibited" nonsense. Don't they also tell you you can resell or bequeath it as you want? If it wasn't transferable how could that be? 

Fortunately you are looking at the very best time. It's a buyers market and everything I see says that like Marriott & others Hilton is no longer exercising the ROFR  so whatever low price resale you can find will most likely end up yours rather than being taken by Hilton while the real seller still only gets the low offer price. They will still get the low market price as it should be but you will be the lucky buyer not Hilton. If by chance they do exercise ROFR just bid again on another as they don't want much inventory anymore it seems as sales have tanked for the whole industry. 

First step is to rescind then give thanks you got out in time & start lookimg for good resales. Don't believe the asking prices - bid low & you'll get a great deal. Good luck!


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## wilmetted (Oct 17, 2009)

*Flamingo*

Buying at the flamingo is a safe bet because they cannot use ROFR there.


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## steeler (Oct 20, 2009)

I was reading this thread and I have to ask.  What happens if HGVC does excercise ROFR?  Does this means Hilton refunds the sale price?  

I just want to be clear because I bought into HGVC (3400 annual gold Las Vegas Hilton) via ebay for what I thought to be a real bargain (much less than $3k) and it is in the process of being recorded and sent to Hilton.

I've heard of ROFR, but, I don't really know what that process is like.

Any insight is appreciated.


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## PigsDad (Oct 20, 2009)

ROFR:  If you are the buyer, it simply means that Hilton will buy the unit from the seller instead of you. The seller will get the same amount of money as they would have from you.  You will not have paid for anything, so you are not out any money.  At the end, you are left looking for another unit to buy.

Kurt


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## JM48 (Oct 20, 2009)

If Hilton exercises it's RORF then the Co. handling the sale will notify you & you will get back everything you paid out. It will cost you nothing.

 Hilton does this to try & keep the price up but as I understand it they are not buying much back right now. 

 It will take a while for all the paperwork to go thru. I bought on e bay, sale was on 7/30/09 I got my membership cards yesterday!!

 JM


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## Rachabbi77 (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks everybody! I DID rescind and just received all of the money back.  I am going to take your suggestions and contact Judy and Seth and see what's available.  I really do appreciate your help!   I'm going to see about buying a 5,000 annual points.


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## Karen G (Oct 20, 2009)

Rachabbi77 said:


> Thanks everybody! I DID rescind and just received all of the money back.


How wonderful! Thanks for letting us know.


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## bosco0633 (Oct 21, 2009)

that is great.  Im glad that it worked out for you.  Both Seth and Judi are very well respected here.  I have used Judi twice and thought that she was wonderful.  You are very lucky to get your money back!!!


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