# Need to understand Points systems [Worldmark]



## DaveNV (May 25, 2015)

I'm posting this in the Lounge because it's so generalized, I wasn't sure where else I should put it.  (Mods, feel free to move it to where you think it best fits.)

I attended a party over the weekend where I had a lengthy talk about timesharing with a good friend.  She and her husband/family are interested in getting into timesharing. I gave her the basics about Weeks vs. Points (as I understand them), Developer vs. Resale (which she completely understood before we spoke), and the Good vs. bad of timeshare ownership.

Having vetted her through all of that stuff, the talk turned to "So what do you think would work best for our family?"  She and husband, plus five kids, the eldest of which is 17, and will be off to college next year.  Youngest is 8 or 9, I think.

I said for the way they like to travel - long weekends, short term planning, driving distance from Seattle, and an occasional week-long trip out of state, that I felt a Points system would be good, and that I'd heard for northwesterners that Worldmark is a good system to get into.

And my knowledge stopped cold at that point. So I'm turning to my fellow Tuggers for some information. I'm a Weeks guy, with a generalized understanding of Points.  I know different systems use a different Points scale, and they are not comparable to each other.  I know booking different resorts and different times of year takes differing amounts of Points.  But that's about the limit of what I know about Points.

I'd like to know if Worldmark is a good option for them, and if not, which system is better?  I still don't understand the language Points systems use (UDI, for example) so don't know what to think about terms like that. How do I help them decipher the WM system to know what is a good vs. bad purchase?  I've scanned the link at the wmowners.com site, but wanted to be sure that was the right place to be looking.

What can you folks tell me?  Thanks in advance for any help.

Dave


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## ronparise (May 25, 2015)

Worldmark is a pure points system, ie no deeds. The club owns the property, wyndham manages it, and we "owners own Credits.

Credits are the  currency we use to make reservations, More credits= more reservations.  and thats really all you need to know

but there are details. any day check in, short stay vacations, are ok, long stays are ok too., owner to owner transfer of credits is allowed, maintenance fees are cheap, there are cash options if you use all your credits etc

 Like the game of Chess. you can learn enough to play in an afternoon, but it will take a lifetime to become an expert

If you buy and it turns out to not be a good fit, no problem, sell it. One of the brokers I deal with (smartshare .com) offers a one year money back guarantee. Tell Bill and Marc I sent you


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## DaveNV (May 25, 2015)

Thanks, Ron.  How many credits do you think they'd want to get?  And is WM the best fit for them?  Is another system better?

Dave


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## ronparise (May 25, 2015)

Worldmark started in the Pacific Northwest. I know that there are other timeshares there, but pretty sure Worldmark is the only system with a significant presence there. 

10000 credits is a good number I think, (a red week in a 2 bedroom at most of the resorts) If it turns out thats not enough buy more, or "rent" more credits from other owners,


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## DaveNV (May 25, 2015)

ronparise said:


> Worldmark started in the Pacific Northwest. I know that there are other timeshares there, but pretty sure Worldmark is the only system with a significant presence there.
> 
> 10000 credits is a good number I think, (a red week in a 2 bedroom at most of the resorts) If it turns out thats not enough buy more, or "rent" more credits from other owners,



Thanks!  That's what I was hoping to learn.  Now to try and help them find a contract like that at a good price.  I'll check your earlier link, and tell Bill and Marc you said Hi.


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## presley (May 25, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> I've scanned the link at the wmowners.com site, but wanted to be sure that was the right place to be looking.
> 
> What can you folks tell me?  Thanks in advance for any help.



That is the site where I've learned about 99% of what I know about WM. Members can get a bit moody with each other, but if you can ignore all that, you will learn all the tricks and tips and find out why so many people, myself included, believe WM is the best overall timeshare system. 

I agree that 10K is a good starter account. Other owners will transfer their surplus credits for the cost of the annual dues if your friend ever needs a few more credits.  The smallest account is for 5K credits and that can be fine because WM runs so many cash specials which include the cost of housekeeping. A 5K - 10K account only comes with one housekeeping token. If they do several weekend stays, they will need to pay the big bucks for cleaning the room when they leave. If they book on the very inexpensive cash stays, they won't need to pay for housekeeping.

Since you said they like to do long weekends and shorter stays, it is very important that they learn to use the wait list system. Chances are, they will be using it for most of their reservations - like I do.


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## ronparise (May 25, 2015)

Almost forgot 

This the best place to go to learn how to use Worldmark 
 WorldMark Timeshare Information
www.wmtsinfo.com

This site is the work of Fred Greeb who posts here and on the Worldmark Facebook group and its where I leaned everything I know about Worldmark


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## uscav8r (May 25, 2015)

If they want to do several long weekends they might want to look into getting a no housekeeping account (NHK). These are rare finds that come with a resale premium of $12-14k, but they hold value on the resale market. A 10k would be good for them to see how the system works, but NHK accounts work better for bigger accounts of 25-50k or greater. 

If they go regular account, they could see HK fees of $70-100 per stay beyond the normal HK allotment depending on unit size. 


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## uscav8r (May 25, 2015)

ronparise said:


> Almost forgot
> 
> 
> 
> ...




+1


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## DaveNV (May 25, 2015)

ronparise said:


> Almost forgot
> 
> This the best place to go to learn how to use Worldmark
> WorldMark Timeshare Information
> ...




Excellent link, Ron.  Thank you!  The more I look at WM, the more I think I might need to get myself into it, too.  

So how does it stack up against other Points systems?  Is there one that's better than WM?

Dave


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## VacationForever (May 25, 2015)

Living where you are, nothing is better than Worldmark.   I own at Starwood, Marriott and Worldmark and I bought them in this order.  If I have to do them again, definitely will start with Worldmark and think hard about possibly a Marriott and then Starwood.  MF is very cheap/reasonable. There are no fees for booking or cancellation.  The cancellation policy is very generous, something like up to 14 days before travel.  All sorts of bonus time can be booked with cash for as cheap or maybe even cheaper than using points because they include the housekeeping fee in the price.  I went to Vancouver city and Victoria at BC last year.  This year I am going to Depoe Bay in OR.  No other timeshare systems have resorts in any of these locations.  Their locations are in most cities along the West Coast.  They add many new properties each year.  Next year I plan to go to Marina Dunes (Monterrey area).  Points are good for 3 years and you can book and cancel as many times as you wish. No fee for carrying points over.  I have not traded in RCI or II but TUGgers consistently report high trading power.  Plus flex exchange only uses 4000 points or something like that.  The list simply goes on...

.... and I forgot to add that customer service at the resorts are friendlier and feels more genuine than what you get at other timeshare chains.


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## geist1223 (May 26, 2015)

The most common complaint among WM Owners is difficulty in booking a particular resort for the time period they want. This complaint is primarily by people who do not take the time to learn the system and its various avenues of making reservations. Also it can hurt if the family cannot plan ahead - 13 month booking window.


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## easyrider (May 26, 2015)

I like having at least two 6000 point contracts. The reason is you can transfer points over to the other account, you get two house keeping tokens and your able to manipulate bonus time. 

With any account you purchase you can buy one time use credits from other owners or a broker. This gives you the ability to make huge reservations with a small account.

WM trades pretty good with rci and the wm website has a link to rci so you can see available inventory. At 45 days out any unit in the inventory will cost 4000 points plus exchange fee. 

With at least two accounts you can also use double the weekend bonus time or do an entire week on bonus time. 

Bill


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## LisaH (May 26, 2015)

Agree with what Bill said although I think two 7000 points contracts might be even better. M/Fs for 6000 and 7000 points are the same, so more bang for the buck...


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## itchyfeet (May 26, 2015)

I agree that www.wmowners.com is an excellent place to get information.  If you have any questions, there are many long time owners there to help you get the most from your membership.  I studied  many posts there before I bought my membership on the resale market.


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## LLW (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> I'm posting this in the Lounge because it's so generalized, I wasn't sure where else I should put it.  (Mods, feel free to move it to where you think it best fits.)
> 
> I attended a party over the weekend where I had a lengthy talk about timesharing with a good friend.  She and her husband/family are interested in getting into timesharing. I gave her the basics about Weeks vs. Points (as I understand them), Developer vs. Resale (which she completely understood before we spoke), and the Good vs. bad of timeshare ownership.
> 
> ...



A couple of quick points:

1. Since they have 5 kids, they are going to need a 3BR/sleeps 8 most of the time. This link gives all the resorts that have 3BRs:
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/resortfinder.shtml . They will need at least 12,000 credits for one week, annually, for the 3BRs. They can have one account, or 2 accounts - each has its advantages. There are threads on wmowners.com, Timeshare Tips & Tricks,
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32

that help decipher the 2 accounts vs 1 account dilemma, and provide other essential WM info.

The numerous cash booking opportunities will help in booking the many vacations/getaways that they seem to take. They can rent in additional credits until they decide clearly what they should have.


2. I think WM is the best, especially for timeshare owners in the PNW. See this for why:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1725311&postcount=7

The question of "Why WM?" often comes up on TUG; so a search may pull up more info.


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## ronparise (May 26, 2015)

I missed the 5 kids part.  LLW is right more points makes sense


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## presley (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> So how does it stack up against other Points systems?  Is there one that's better than WM?



In my experience, WM is the best points system. It has many locations, MFs are very low, customer service is the best and it trades in both II and RCI.

The other points systems I have had are: RCI points, DVC, HGVC and Shell. WM  has been much better in costs of vacations, customer service and ease of using the system. Of course, it still boils down to where you want to vacation.


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## CO skier (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> I said for the way they like to travel -  short term planning, ...



Short term planning (less than 6 months in advance) plus kids in school equals owners who are generally disappointed with floating weeks and points timeshares, because they "can't ever find anything available where and when we want to travel."  

Even the off-season weekends at the WorldMark coastal resorts are generally booked by the 6-month mark.  As examples, weekends at Discovery Bay and Deer Harbor are booked through the end of the year; there are a few 3 bedroom units at Long Beach left the first two weekends of December.  WorldMark offers a waitlist option that helps with short term planning, but they would have to become expert at using it and get lucky.

How short term is "short term planning"?  If it is 30-60 days, this will prove to be a barrier to happiness in any points-based timeshare.

This is a link to the WorldMark resorts.  If you can give some idea of where and when they want to vacation, it would help to offer an opinion on their chances for timeshare satisfaction.

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

WorldMark has reasonable MF.  The maintenance fees for a 12,000 credit account are currently $852.


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## DaveNV (May 26, 2015)

Thanks, everyone.  The information above is all very helpful. I'm learning plenty, and I really appreciate all the help.

This family is VERY active.  Kids have a lot of activities (sports, dance groups, other after school things,) and are on the go a lot.  Mom and dad both work in high-end tech jobs, but are both invested in their kids, and spend a lot of their free time supporting the things the kids are into.  As a result, travel as a group is often semi-last minute and closer to home, or some family members are left at home with other relatives while the rest of the family travels for the planned weekend away.  

This weekend they were renting a one bedroom cabin at a Thousand Trails campground, where her sister had her travel trailer for the weekend.  Cramming seven people into a one bedroom cabin was a challenge, so the kids were mostly in tents in the yard.  They worked it out, but she said they'd like to have something a bit more "conventional."

I think with regards to WM, if they had frequent trouble booking weekend things conveniently, they may opt to not do that as much, and would focus on the longer term vacation planning they also like doing.  If they knew they could count on it, the 13 month window isn't likely a problem.  If a trip was scheduled, the other extra activities would be adjusted accordingly.

The conversation we had started with the wife telling me about their last trip to Maui.  She was saying it was so expensive to take seven people to Maui for Spring Break, which they like doing every year, that she was looking at better options.  She has attended several timeshare presentations in exchange for inexpensive getaway vacations, and has seen through the smokescreen of Developer sales pitches.  She's interested in knowing more, but will only buy in if it works for the way they like to travel.  Other than Maui, most of their trips are local to the western Washington area, since it's easily driven.  If they had options to go elsewhere, I think they'd plan for that, and have a great time doing it.

I think a Weeks ownership would be too rigid for them, and I still think a Points ownership would work, as long as they understand what they're up against to try and use it to their best advantage.  What do you think?

Dave


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## uscav8r (May 26, 2015)

Here's the thing about preplanning and why it can be different in WM. I have a similar situation as the OP's friend. Military schedules can be very fungible. It depends on what is driving the short term planning requirement, but my suggestion would be to book several (2-4) weekend getaways "around" the time they would like to go somewhere (do this right at 10 months). WM is flexible enough that all of these reservations can be cancelled (sometimes inside of 30 days), but ideally one of them will meet firmed up needs. 


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## uscav8r (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> ...I think with regards to WM, if they had frequent trouble booking weekend things conveniently, they may opt to not do that as much, and would focus on the longer term vacation planning they also like doing.  If they knew they could count on it, the 13 month window isn't likely a problem.  If a trip was scheduled, the other extra activities would be adjusted accordingly.
> 
> ...
> I think a Weeks ownership would be too rigid for them, and I still think a Points ownership would work, as long as they understand what they're up against to try and use it to their best advantage.  What do you think?
> ...


Adaptability is key on their part. 

They need not be limited to one system. They can spread their eggs in different baskets as needed. For PNW presence, short stays, waitlist, and flexibility, WM cannot be beat. 

But that does not mean they couldn't or shouldn't augment with a fixed week somewhere. There is no a one-size-fits-all system. As many TUGers have discovered, just try it out, keep what works, amend what doesn't, as opposed to sitting on the sidelines in analysis paralysis! 



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## presley (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> I think a Weeks ownership would be too rigid for them, and I still think a Points ownership would work, as long as they understand what they're up against to try and use it to their best advantage.  What do you think?



If they need to fit a family of 8 in weekend stays, planning far in advance is key. Since their kids are in many activities, chances are, they will need to cancel/reschedule many of their stays. My daughter was busy every weekend all 4 years of high school - they'd even throw in "mandatory" practices during all holiday breaks. At that time, we couldn't do any weekends away. We could do one planned vacation, which was planned well in advance and she was "excused" because it was planned months in advance and was such a rare thing. Not sure if that family will have as rigorous of a schedule as my kids did in high school, but at least my second one had summers and true holidays off.

With WM, when you book 13 months in advance, you have to book a minimum of 7 nights. You can book shorter stays 10 months out, but any popular places will be booked and they will need to use the wait list. There is some work involved in getting the popular reservations. They may be better off renting from owners for a few times to see how it works out.  There are plenty of owners who have too many points and they will gladly put in a wait list for someone else and/or log into the site many times per day to try to grab something.

EDIT TO ADD: They might also want to check out bypassing timeshares altogether and stay at Embassy Suites or Homewood Suites. They are very similar to timeshares, but you get a hot breakfast every day and daily housekeeping. Embassy has free cocktails in the evening. Homewood has full kitchens.


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## DaveNV (May 26, 2015)

uscav8r said:


> Here's the thing about preplanning and why it can be different in WM. I have a similar situation as the OP's friend. Military schedules can be very fungible. It depends on what is driving the short term planning requirement, but my suggestion would be to book several (2-4) weekend getaways "around" the time they would like to go somewhere (do this right at 10 months). WM is flexible enough that all of these reservations can be cancelled (sometimes inside of 30 days), but ideally one of them will meet firmed up needs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nice idea.  Are the Points it requires taken out of the account on making the reservation, or when the trip actually occurs?

Dave


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## uscav8r (May 26, 2015)

BMWguynw said:


> Nice idea.  Are the Points it requires taken out  of the account on making the reservation, or when the trip actually  occurs?
> 
> Dave


Points are "tied up" at booking, so larger credit amounts can provide more flexibility. But to reiterate others' posts, your friends don't need a large annual account. They can rent in cheap credits and then rent out the same credits (if they don't ultimately need them) fairly easily. 

Think of the account as a capacitor or reservoir. Fill it up with rental credits to get through credit crunches (making a bunch of placeholders), and empty it (either by booking or by renting the credits to another owner) if too full (say if canceling a bunch of placeholders). One can keep the place holder game going indefinitely with some close management. 

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## DaveNV (May 26, 2015)

presley said:


> If they need to fit a family of 8 in weekend stays, planning far in advance is key. Since their kids are in many activities, chances are, they will need to cancel/reschedule many of their stays. My daughter was busy every weekend all 4 years of high school - they'd even throw in "mandatory" practices during all holiday breaks. At that time, we couldn't do any weekends away. We could do one planned vacation, which was planned well in advance and she was "excused" because it was planned months in advance and was such a rare thing. Not sure if that family will have as rigorous of a schedule as my kids did in high school, but at least my second one had summers and true holidays off.
> 
> With WM, when you book 13 months in advance, you have to book a minimum of 7 nights. You can book shorter stays 10 months out, but any popular places will be booked and they will need to use the wait list. There is some work involved in getting the popular reservations. They may be better off renting from owners for a few times to see how it works out.  There are plenty of owners who have too many points and they will gladly put in a wait list for someone else and/or log into the site many times per day to try to grab something.
> 
> EDIT TO ADD: They might also want to check out bypassing timeshares altogether and stay at Embassy Suites or Homewood Suites. They are very similar to timeshares, but you get a hot breakfast every day and daily housekeeping. Embassy has free cocktails in the evening. Homewood has full kitchens.



This sounds a lot like them.  The second oldest child is an amazing dancer, who performs with a local dance troupe. They're always performing somewhere around town, or traveling to competitions and such.  Emma is probably their best overall performer and she really likes it. I won't be surprised if she tries to have a career on stage. She's "that" good.

Your point about renting is also a great idea.  Once I get my head around all these tips and ideas, I'll be able to sit with my friends and discuss things with them, and help them figure out what they want to do.

Dave


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## geist1223 (May 26, 2015)

*need to understand point system (worldmark)*

Your friends to need to spend time reading this forum and www.wmowners.com. They have to decide for themselves.


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## DaveNV (May 26, 2015)

geist1223 said:


> Your friends to need to spend time reading this forum and www.wmowners.com. They have to decide for themselves.




I totally agree.  But if I can help save them from extraneous reading, or help direct their learning in a way that will work for them, it'll be better for them.  I've known these people since the older kids were in diapers. Even though I'm not related, I'm the "smart uncle" to the family.  So I want to help them decide correctly. 

Dave


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## tturla (Nov 7, 2017)

ronparise said:


> Almost forgot
> 
> This the best place to go to learn how to use Worldmark
> WorldMark Timeshare Information
> ...



Another old post, but trying to learn the VERY BASIC OF WM before I potentially purchase. That linked www.wmtsinfo.com no longer exist. Any place/website/thread that teaches the basics of WM? Confusing concepts regarding banking points. Available points. Future points. Renting points. Lending points out and value of points at various time period etc. waitlisting. Reserving etc.  anniversary dates etc.
I’ve tried the wmowners website and tough to find the basics/foundation of Worldmark ownership. 
Thanks!


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## DaveNV (Nov 8, 2017)

This thread is awesome. I'd forgotten I even started it.  And here I am, two and half years later, waiting for my own WM purchase to close. Tuggers are so amazing. We should start a club.  LOL!

They didn't buy WorldMark, but my friends who inspired this thread ended up buying Wyndham points - a bunch of them, I think.  They won't talk about what they did, (I think they're a bit embarrassed), but I think they got sucked in by a presentation on a trip to Maui. They can afford it, so I'm not overly concerned for them. They're wonderful people who are the epitome of a nuclear family.  They'll be fine.

Dave


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## rhonda (Nov 8, 2017)

tturla said:


> Another old post, but trying to learn the VERY BASIC OF WM before I potentially purchase. That linked www.wmtsinfo.com no longer exist. Any place/website/thread that teaches the basics of WM? Confusing concepts regarding banking points. Available points. Future points. Renting points. Lending points out and value of points at various time period etc. waitlisting. Reserving etc.  anniversary dates etc.
> I’ve tried the wmowners website and tough to find the basics/foundation of Worldmark ownership.
> Thanks!


Start <<here>>, perhaps?  (Link goes to Sticky at the top of TUG's forum for WM discussions.)


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## CO skier (Nov 8, 2017)

tturla said:


> Another old post, but trying to learn the VERY BASIC OF WM before I potentially purchase. That linked www.wmtsinfo.com no longer exist. Any place/website/thread that teaches the basics of WM? Confusing concepts regarding banking points. Available points. Future points. Renting points. Lending points out and value of points at various time period etc. waitlisting. Reserving etc.  anniversary dates etc.
> I’ve tried the wmowners website and tough to find the basics/foundation of Worldmark ownership.
> Thanks!


This is a link to a very basic overview of WorldMark:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/worldmark-the-club-timeshare-information-overview.html


This is a link to the WorldMark Guidelines for more in-depth study:

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/board/info/pdfs/WM_Club_Guidelines.pdf

WorldMark offers a lot of flexibility and options versus a full-week timeshare.  It takes a few readings of the Guidelines to understand them.


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## CO skier (Nov 8, 2017)

rhonda said:


> Start <<here>>, perhaps?  (Link goes to Sticky at the top of TUG's forum for WM discussions.)


Great minds think alike and post at exactly the same time.


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## tturla (Nov 8, 2017)

rhonda said:


> Start <<here>>, perhaps?  (Link goes to Sticky at the top of TUG's forum for WM discussions.)





CO skier said:


> Great minds think alike and post at exactly the same time.



Thank you both. I will do some studying.


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