# Update:  Fairmont 'deal' re: moving to RCI and points



## LarryEdmonton

This follows up an earlier thread.

I attended the informaton session - they are under creditor protection and raising $ by:

Offering owners the option to switch from their limited term ownership (I think mine expires in 2034) to Fee simple and at the same time switch to RCI points from II.  But there is dual membership so one can stay with II.

The points for a 2 bedroom lockout

               Golden  96,200
               Golf       74,000
               Winter    66,600
                Leisure  52,100

Price is $3,000 for biannual or $5,000 for annual

So the tradeoff was the lockout feature for fixed points, and extending the life of your timeshare.  I found it strange the conversion price was the same for all types.


*Some questions to considr:*  Are the points worth the trade-off?  Will this increase the value of your timeshare more than the cost.    Consider you can lock off a Golf or Golden with II and have two strong traders.


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## Carolinian

I think I would stay with II, if you have two strong traders with your lockoff.


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## Bill4728

IMHO, it is almost never a good deal to pay to convert to points. Mostly because the resort is asking way too much money. They pay RCI about $200 to convert you to points, but as you said the resort want you to pay them $5,000 !!?? So for their tiny trouble you pay them an extra $4800!!  NO WAY!!

For a few hundreds of dollars you can try out RCI points by doing a 3 year lease of points  Market place ad


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## LarryEdmonton

Note the cost includes conversion to full title to the week versus the fixed term title.


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## RandRseeker

I think I'll stay with II for now.  The cost to convert my annual winter week to points is more than I paid for it.  I still have 22 years remaining.  It's not a great trader (we have gotten some decent trades during Flexchange and off-season) but it didn't cost much - although my maintenance fees seem to be going up substantially each year.


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## Canuck

*should we worry?*

Should all us Fairmont owners be worried?  Are they going to go belly up?  Or are they going to ask us to open are wallets?  To me this looks really bad!
We own Golden time and  have always had amazing luck at pulling top resorts.  I will be so sad if we loose our winter escape!


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## RandRseeker

*II renewal deal for Fairmont owners*

I just got a renewal notice from II.  A three year renewal for only $99 !!  They are hoping that Fairmont owners will stay with them rather than convert to RCI points.  That sounds like a steal to me.


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## spender

A friend of mine has recently offered to sell me half of his Fairmont timeshare, does it still make sense to buy in given this conversion to RCI issue?


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## Bill4728

spender said:


> A friend of mine has recently offered to sell me half of his Fairmont timeshare, does it still make sense to buy in given this conversion to RCI issue?


As everyone has said, no one has to convert to RCI points. Therefore if you like the TS and the trades it may get in II, go ahead and buy your friend's TS. 

Before you do, look and see how much it would cost to buy the TS from one of the TS resell websites (like redweek or here on the TUG marketplace)


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## Garry

I just read Ernst and Young's report on Fairmont's reorganization plan.  In that report, Fairmont estimates that 50% of the current leaseholders will pay up to $5,350 to convert to points and switch to RCI.  I really have to wonder what colour the sky is in their world?  

There are currently so many other resorts that can be bought for that amount or less that are nicer resorts.  As an example, a platinum Marriott Manor Club at Ford's Colony recently sold for $5400 with every year usage and "free" golf for 2 for 6 days of your stay.  Given the choice, which would you buy?  Seems like a no brainer to me.  

Since the resort will remain dual affiliated if they do switch to RCI, I think I'll just keep my two fixed summer weeks through the lease expiry in 2021 and then just let them expire.


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## verby

*hi from fhs*

just a little update...
we've been owners at fhs (hillside) for about 10 years.
We are staying at the hillside for our vacation this week and have also had the 25 minute update on their switch.  They also offered us $5,000.00 as a special to switch to RCI and lifetime ownership.  I think also this is a ridiculous offer and a waste of money.  Through our ten years we have stayed with many high end resorts i.e Maui, Mexico, Palm Springs etc. and we own leisure time only.  If we switched we would only get approx. 52,000pts which wouldn't really offer us too many nice resorts at high demand places like hawaii and we wouldn't even be able to stay there with those points.  RCI may have more but they are not as nice as II resorts.
*Be aware* and very cautious on this so called deal. We are staying with II.


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## marshmans

We just got home from today and felt like we had to do the switch as that was where they are going anyways. We own a Prime Golf Biannual and lock off and deposit two 1 bdrm units with II for exchange and then go back to Fairmont during the ski season on a getaway because that is cheaper than the maintenance fee.  We were offered 74,000 point - is that a decent amount of point to go other places?? I also heard Disney has switched to RCI - how many points do you need to go there.  If you have the points that doesn't necessarily mean you can get in someone still has to deposit their week/points right? I'm a little confused and now worried that we should have switched. Please help!


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## dougp26364

LarryEdmonton said:


> Note the cost includes conversion to full title to the week versus the fixed term title.



25 years vs eternity wouldn't make any difference to me. In 25 years, either I'll be deceased or close enough to it that a few extra years of timeshare ownership isn't going to be that big of a deal to me. If I think I'll need another perpetual timeshare there's plenty of choices of timeshares on E-bay right now that can provide me that option for far less than they're asking to convert. 

As far as joining RCI, they'd have to pay me to become a member and still give me full access to Interval International. Those points you have today could be re-evaluated later and stay the same, go up, or be reduced.


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## Larry6417

*My 2 cents*

I agree with the skeptics. 

First, if the company is under creditor protection, then enhancing its cash flow is priority #1. It is not doing you a favour by offering fee simple title and a conversion fee to RCI points. The company is looking for a lump sum of cash from the conversion fee and a steady income stream from fee simple owners.

Second, what is the RCI point: MF ratio? My understanding (I don't own at Fairmont) is that the MFs are high. If, after conversion, owners get fewer than 100 RCI points per dollar of MF, then owners are getting a poor deal. I also believe it's a mistake for the resort to switch to RCI points because it will make the owners look at their resort in a different way. Once you become an RCI points owner, your home resort becomes less important than the points: MF ratio. The best RCI point: MF ratio I've ever seen was through Grandview Las Vegas, 122,000 points for the high demand weeks with a MF of  ~ $650. This item sold on eBay for about $5,000 - the same cost as the conversion fee. Even if you can't find this good a deal, there are many good RCI points available for far less than $5,000.


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## marshmans

The MF is approx. $650 and we were offered 74,000 points for our time of year which includes all months other than June, July and 2 wks at Christmas. So that's about 113 points:$1.  

I'm trying to look into the creditor protection more and what the points all mean.  Is 74,000 enough to do anything? I guess I'll get reading the other forums to see what is good.  I am fairly new to timesharing and just got II figured out - and have gone on some, or what I think are, fantastic exchanges (Orlando Marriot Horizons and Grande Vista) and getaways (Lawrence Welk and our home resort) and am not sure that I will get the same thing out of the points and RCI.


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## Bill4728

Since this is about Fairmont and not about RCI, I'm moving this to the Canada Board


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## AKE

Don't pay anything to switch - if they were offering it for a nominal amount it may be worth consideration but given the TS market these days, you can probably pick up points on the internet for way less + keep your current TS arrangements.   Also, do you really want to be saddled with a TS + maintenance payments 25 years down the road - you age, health issues take over, you no longer can travel, and the amount of points required for exchanges will probably have significantly increased from the present (so either you will have to buy more points or take less exclusive trades  as time goes on). We have a fee simple resort bought 18 years ago - I wish that it was a 25 year RTU instead as our requirements have drastically changed (I prefer fancy hotels with all the amenities along with good restaurants nowadays as our kids have grown up - going to a TS which is nice, but never the service or luxury of a 4-5* hotel, and which is invaded by kids and teens who party well into the night is not something that I want - been there.. seen it.... done it (and though I enjoyed it, that part of my life is over...especially the kitchen and cooking - )


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## jlp879

marshmans said:


> I am fairly new to timesharing and just got II figured out - and have gone on some, or what I think are, fantastic exchanges (Orlando Marriot Horizons and Grande Vista) and getaways (Lawrence Welk and our home resort) and am not sure that I will get the same thing out of the points and RCI.



Here is where you can find out point values for a Disney resort that exchanges in RCI.  This chart is for Disney's Animal Kingdom villas.  A two bedroom high season is 118,500 points.  Regular season 2 bedroom is 94,500 points.  

http://www.rci.com/RDGateway/RCI_RDGIndex?body=RCI_RDGResortPointsGrid&ri=1&resortcode=DV01


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## Duffer888

*Fairmont Conversion to RCI*

Hello all, I am one of the folks that converted our timeshare at Fairmont from the 25 years remaining to a fixed title.  We did it mainly for our children to use at a later time.  Of course, we had to switch to RCI, which provides us with 96,200 points for our Gold Week.

I do have a question for anyone that might be able to help.  For Fairmont, the RCI webpage offers a 2 bedroom unit for 102,000 points (so we're already short by 5,800 points) or a 1 bedroom for 48,100 points.  Does anyone know whether we get our choice of building or unit?  Also, if we choose the 1 bedroom option, is this the A side or the B side unit?  

We used to be able to book the specific unit we wanted directly with Fairmont, and lock off the B side for trading.  Now, we have to go through RCI, it's doubtful whether we get to choose our unit (hope I'm wrong), and we are short 5,800 points if we want both A and B sides.  

I liked the idea of fee simple ownership, but the method of booking seems to be lacking.  I'm hoping someone out there will tell me it's not as bad as it appears.

Thanks all.


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## asp

Suggest you talk to your Fairmont customer service person - how each resort books depends on their structure.  there may be different point values for different two bedroom units.

In most RCI Points Weeks resorts, you will have been assigned a "home week" - either fixed or floating - you can book that unit without a fee during the Home Group "window".   

However, if there are lock outs, the resort should be able to tell you the RCI code to ask for if you want to use RCI Points to book a particular type of unit.


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## Netgeek

*To convert or not to convert*

My wife and I just sat through the Fairmont "spiel" and have a few concerns.  We currently own a biannual AB lockoff in Winter season.  This would get us 66,000 points every two years.

The salesman went to great lengths to point out the advantages of short notice trading for minimal points.  Has anyone had any experience trading on 45 days notice?

Next, the timeshare becomes permanent.  Does this leave our kids on the hook when we depart?  And what of the maintenance fees?  Is there any protection against them going through the roof when Fairmont needs more cash?  They are already going up significantly every year.  What about cash calls?  As Fairmont is governed by the British Columbia Condominium Act, is there anything to stop them from gouging owners if their current "restructuring" does not get them the $$$ they are looking for?

We have been given until Friday to make up our minds, and I have to admit that I am leaning towards saying "no" and sticking with the Platinum Club.

:annoyed:


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## asp

Strata Property Act applies only if it is a strata lot.  And then, it would apply only to the exteriors of the unit, land and other common property.  Most BC timeshare fees include the strata fees, plus the other costs of maintenance, rolled into one fee.


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## Bill4728

Netgeek said:


> My wife and I just sat through the Fairmont "spiel" and have a few concerns.  We currently own a biannual AB lockoff in Winter season.  This would get us 66,000 points every two years.
> 
> The salesman went to great lengths to point out the advantages of short notice trading for minimal points.  Has anyone had any experience trading on 45 days notice?
> 
> We have been given until Friday to make up our minds, and I have to admit that I am leaning towards saying "no" and sticking with the Platinum Club.
> 
> :annoyed:


I have said this many times, _*unless the fee to convert to RCI points is under $500 then it is a bad deal to convert your TS to RCI points. *_

If you want RCI points, there are many current resort owners, in RCI points, who will sell you their TS for under $500 and you'll still have your current TS.  

BUT yes, if you can plan a vacation on a minutes notice (and off season) there are sometimes some great last minute deals with RCI points.  BUT this isn't a reason to switch to points. This is available for any resort owner who is in RCI points.



> Next, the timeshare becomes permanent.  Does this leave our kids on the hook when we depart?  And what of the maintenance fees?  Is there any protection against them going through the roof when Fairmont needs more cash?


Yes, if your TS becomes permanent, you are on the hook for the MF forever. AND there is nothing you can do if the MFs go thru the roof.


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## Netgeek

*Fairmont ripoff!*

Man, am I glad I did not throw good money after bad on this mess.  Fairmont purchased the rights to the Shuswap Lakes Resort Club (a houseboat timeshare) in 2004 (we are owners).  After paying my already high maintenance fees of $790 (that does not include sundries like orientation, fuel, pumpout, extra insurance, etc), I just got an additional invoice for over $800.

They double our GD maintenance fees overnight!!!!

I am checking with BC Consumer Protection to see what our rights are.  Fairmont are crooks.  I would suggest that nobody buy anything from them.  I hope they go under, that way I can just walk away from a couple of bad decisions.

:annoyed:


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## coolcat

*Converting to points*

If Fairmont is trying to get everyone to convert shouldn't they also let you have access to the points system within RCI to actually see what you CAN book? 
We bought with Elkhorn in Canmore and were able to peruse the system to see what was available. We've used more "last call" offers than we have our actual points. In the  year we stayed in a huge 3 bedroom panorama condo for $250/week in prime ski season, then Las Vegas in the spring in a 1500 SqFt 2 bedroom 5 star condo for $340/week just this year. Next year we hope to book a ski vacation in Whitefish. With "points" last year we stayed in a lovely Kauai Princeville resort called The Cliffs. It was relatively easy to find availability in the RCI system and book.

Saying that, I do worry that RCI is selling off all of the good inventory for cash dollars to the public, lessening the inventory for points AND weeks users. Hence their ongoing weeks member lawsuit. 

We did the Fairmont presentation in December and were offered less points that we got at Elkhorn. I wouldn't purchase with Fairmont as I don't like the highway location anyway. Thinking resale, if I don't like the location, it's not likely someone else would either. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

It seems that Fairmont is profitting on the points conversion as are many other timeshare companies. I'd sit tight in the weeks plan or platinum, whatever you call it if you want something simple. I love searching the deals in last calls plus we're new to the timeshare thing so the points worked well for us since we're flexible and I'm happy to search.

I didn't catch with Fairmont is including deeds in the product or is this just a lease? We like the idea of a deed, the maintenance fees do pass on to your kids as condo fees for a regular condo would anyway, however, hopefully you've got a fund put away to cover this by the time you pass on and they can still benefit from the family vacations. For now I'll give away the promo coupons and as they credit me $100 back for the referral. Anyone want to try the new Elkhorn timeshare? =D


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## Porter321

coolcat said:


> If Fairmont is trying to get everyone to convert shouldn't they also let you have access to the points system within RCI to actually see what you CAN book?.....



Thanks for you information ...


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## Garry

I just received an e-mail from Fairmont advising that the fee to convert is now $9500 a week, plus tax of course, but they'll give me a 25% discount if I act quickly!  They couldn't sell them at $5,000 a week so they almost double the cost, then offer a discount.  Marketing!  Hurry - this deal is only good to-day.


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## kevinjanny

What a bunch of crooks. You can buy a resale at a points resort for a fraction of that. Maintenance fees through the roof and now this. It makes you wonder what's next.


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## Meow

*The End of an Era*

It is sad how Fairmont has degenerated.  I'm sure that Lloyd Wilder is turning in his grave now.  He would be very disappointed to see how the project he started in 1957 has fallen into the hands of con artists and fly-by-nighters.  When we first bought into Fairmont it was a first class resort, run by reputable people.  Greed has replaced business integrity.  But I believe it is a disease that has infected the overall timeshare business.  The lack of business ethics as practiced by RCI is now the norm for the timeshare business.  
The offer on the table for current Fairmont leaseholders is an opportunity to repurchase their timeshares.  The package includes a membership in the RCI points system and a conversion from lease to fee simple title.  Your cash goes to a newby called Northwynd.  Are they a White Knight that has come along to rescue Fairmont or just opportunists that will disappear once they have scooped enough cash from willing timeshare owners?  Your guess is as good as mine.  But for me, I'll just hang on to my cash.


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## kevinjanny

That's our feeling as well. We don't have usage again until our 2012 week at LOR and it looks like we won't be staying in the new villas ever again based upon what we heard.  We heard from another owner while we were there, the new villas by the lake (2 buildings-one which was totally empty of all furniture) will be sold as private condos for a starting price of $400 thousand each. I guess we'll see if that happens. There were real estate signs in the villas facing the lake so it looks like that may be the case. We won't be buying into the points system, or renewing our vacation club ownership either. Any news about this situation in the coming weeks/months would be greatly appreciated. I trust other owners far more than I do these guys.


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## Tacoma

Well I doubt they'll have much luck selling condo's at $400 in this valley now. Nothing has sold for around 2 years.  THe condos in Invermere very close to the main beach have had 2 auction selling times and are now 40% off.  SOme 2 bedrooms are under $200 and they still don't seem to be going.  THis valley (I have a trailer in a park here) has been building and building but people are afraid to buy recreational property.  Our RV park is redesigning and he is going to try and get 150-200 thousand per lot plus 30-40 for a boat stall.  Our friends bought into Kimberly and that development stalled.  Until the economy (oil mainly) picks up I think they'll just be sitting.

Joan


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## keniebc

He is referring to Lake Okanagan Resort, not Fairmont...


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## coronabeerguy

We just returned from Fairmont and I totally agree that this place is gone down hill.  We went to the presentation about converting and were interested but with certain concerns.  Not once did they explain anything about maintenance fees skyrocketing other than mismanagement by previous owners and that 25% was not beong put away for future upgrades as we were told.  we opted not to join RCI or convert to deeded because I don't know what kind of debt I will be saddling my kids with.  It could be astronomical in a short time since these units are getting very run down.
I don't know much about the new ownership group but I am reading mixed reviews and warnings.  
The biggest red flag we had was we made an appointment over our week there to get information from sales staff about converting and we met with her Tuesday and a follow up appointment on Friday.  The sales office called once to reschedule saying the sales team was called in to Calgary for a meeting and then Saturday morning a new salesperson called saying they reduced their sales team  and that our agent was released with many others.
We did not sink anymore money into this sinking ship.


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