# Exclusive EMH benefits to DVC members and Deluxe hotel guests only.  So much for being inclusive, Disney!



## rickandcindy23 (Jun 30, 2021)

BREAKING: Disney Announces Details on Early Park Entry, Plus New “Extended Evening Hours” for Deluxe Resort Guests Only - WDW News Today
					

Walt Disney World has announced new extended evening hours for deluxe resort guests, plus more information about early park entry.




					wdwnt.com
				




I think this is indicative of the way the new CEO of Disney feels about the riff-raff, those who stay at the budget hotels on property and for resorts off property.  

We own DVC and I find this pretty sleazy myself.  

This is something I read about months ago.  I belong to a Facebook group of DVC owners who were talking about Disney wanting to cater to a crowd that can better afford to spend money on property.  A manager at OKW told a DVC member that Disney wants people with money in the parks, not the ordinary people.  I guess DVC members are included in the group they want.  I can see a time when DVC members are left out because 1) we go often and don't buy souvenirs every trip, 2) we get to renew our annual passes and that makes for less money for Disney.


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## rhonda (Jun 30, 2021)

Sounds like a good move to me ... ??


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## Dean (Jun 30, 2021)

rhonda said:


> Sounds like a good move to me ... ??


I tend to agree.  I'm OK with them rewarding those that have made the additional commitments.  I wonder if it'll apply to those who do not own qualified points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 30, 2021)

Gee, I am in the minority on this one?  I also know that the new CEO of Disney World was at Disneyland prior to Disney World and thought Max Pass was a great thing.  Spend more money, get more FP.  So maybe that is the way things are going.  I am truly wondering why Disney is talking about inclusivity and then making a move like this.  You cannot have it both ways.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jun 30, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Gee, I am in the minority on this one?  I also know that the new CEO of Disney World was at Disneyland prior to Disney World and thought Max Pass was a great thing.  Spend more money, get more FP.  So maybe that is the way things are going.  I am truly wondering why Disney is talking about inclusivity and then making a move like this.  You cannot have it both ways.



No I think Disney is scum in that sense. I was about to pull the trigger on a small resale DVC contract 2 weeks ago so I could do single night stays in Orlando and decided to join Marriott instead, which I'm like 99% was the right call and saved about 7k doing so. I was just at SSR a few weeks ago for an RCI exchange right after I spent 5 nights at Wyndham Reunion. If you compare the 2 accommodations for their actual cost buying resale, it's ridiculous. I enjoyed the room at Reunion immensely more and would GLADLY do the 15 minute commute it takes to get to a theme park in order to have that comfortable of accommodations. Both my 15 year old niece and 6 year old daughter had the same sentiment. The kids loved having a water park right next to the room. Both SSR and Reunion costed me around $150/night.

SSR buy in cost + annual dues makes each point nowadays cost about $11/point per year. The average cost of that 1 bedroom villa at SSR is about $2,500/week for an SSR resale owner to book. Even if you bought while resale was cheaper, you're still paying about that much to stay because of the return you could get if you sold your contract. A Wyndham resale owner that owns Grand Desert points, which are super easy to find resale, can usually book a week at Reunion 35% off most times of the year, making the average cost to just under $800/week (high season calculation at 35% off).

Other than 2021, I've been able to get Reunion 35% off 3 months out every time I've wanted to stay there. I'm comparing a 1600sq foot 3 bedroom/3 bathroom villa with a double size balcony with an actual 4 person table and 2 lounge chairs with a 700 square foot room at SSR that doesn't even have an ice maker. The fridge at Reunion has an actual ice/water dispenser, and this room at SSR costs 3x as much. Wtf? The only benefit I see to own DVC is for locals who want to stay 1 night only in a studio. Other than that, why pay 3x as much for something that isn't even nearly as nice as what you can get off property. DVC accommodations aren't nearly as comfortable as what the same amount of $$ buys off property. Most DVC 1 bedrooms are just as small as SSR.

I think Disney is doing this because people are getting smarter about where they stay and not booking the deluxes like they did in the past. Most people with money are self earned and can probably smell the bullshit with how little you get for how much you pay with a basic Youtube search. That's why I've never been able to justify any DVC points purchase when it came time to pull the trigger. Disney has the worst value for what you get. As a Wyndham owner, it's actually CHEAPER for me to fly two people to St. Thomas, stay 3 weeks at Wyndham's Limetree beach resort in a studio loft (in the ACTUAL Caribbean) than it is to drive and pay standard rate for 1 week at the Caribbean Beach resort.

So why on earth would anyone actually pay deluxe rates? Disney probably needs something to incentivize the ridiculous costs. I don't think they're catering to the people who can "afford it", I think they're trying to keep their ridiculously overpriced rooms occupied and allowing people to rationalize in their head paying for something that isn't nearly worth what they dish out for it. I think a good amount of people have the $$ to spare to stay deluxe, they just find it a poor use of $$.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed my SSR room for the $1050/week it costed me. Would I pay DVC resale prices to stay there? Not likely.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jun 30, 2021)

Just to clarify - the evening extra hours are not for DVC members per se. They’re for guests staying at Disney’s Deluxe Resorts and Deluxe Villa Resorts (the DVC resorts), whether paying with cash or points. DVC members staying offsite (as we’ll be in November) or in Disney’s value and moderate resorts (we’ve been known tostay at Pop when out of DVC points) won’t have access to those extra hours.  


Dean said:


> I tend to agree.  I'm OK with them rewarding those that have made the additional commitments.  I wonder if it'll apply to those who do not own qualified points.


 It’s not a DVC perk, it’s a perk for those who pay to stay in Disney’s deluxe accommodations (cash or MFs). I’m seeing comments elsewhere from people who booked a deluxe because the moderates were full and were planning to switch if a moderate became available. Now they’re thinking they might not switch - the lure of those extra evening hours may keep those extra dollars in Disney’s pocket.

I’ve also seen thoughts that the deluxe folks might “sleep in” in order to stay late, thus lessening the crowding at the every day extra 30 minutes morning entries to the value and moderate folks.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

I just think this is wrong.  We own 500 Disney points and have the blue DVC ownership cards, all of us, including our three kids.  It's not like I don't get the value of the ownership and the accommodations, that is not it at all, but I do believe that people who cannot afford the expensive rooms should get some perks for staying onsite.  I just don't get how Disney can talk about being inclusive, which they are bragging about currently, and then they do something like this.  

I get to stay at Disney resorts with RCI.  I guess that is what the $190 is for now.  Someone asked on another thread, and I guess this is the answer we can give.  

Look for Max Pass to be offered at Disney World.  Could have a different name, but the intent is there.  

This reminds me of the rich folks who were hiring people in wheelchairs to go with them to Disney to skip all of the lines.


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## Dean (Jul 1, 2021)

TheHolleys87 said:


> t’s not a DVC perk, it’s a perk for those who pay to stay in Disney’s deluxe accommodations (cash or MFs).


My point was that it could be either and either would be appropriate.


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## rhonda (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> but I do believe that people who cannot afford the expensive rooms *should get some perks for staying onsite*.


From how I read the article, all on-site guests get early entry ... now to all parks every day.  That is an expansion over the the former rotating park-of-the-day.



			
				snippet from article said:
			
		

> Starting October 1, Early Park Entry will give resort guests the first chance to enjoy select attractions at every theme park, every day.


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## Ty1on (Jul 1, 2021)

Is SSR considered a deluxe resort?  What I'm getting at is, would an exchanger into any DVC resort be eligible, or would it be restricted to guests of the "deluxe" DVC resorts like Polynesian, GF, AKV etc and those with DVC membership cards?


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## presley (Jul 1, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Is SSR considered a deluxe resort?  What I'm getting at is, would an exchanger into any DVC resort be eligible, or would it be restricted to guests of the "deluxe" DVC resorts like Polynesian, GF, AKV etc and those with DVC membership cards?


I think all DVC units are considered deluxe. At least that's one of the selling points - "always stay in deluxe accommodations."

I'm trying to figure out how this is different than before. Is it different because they are blocking their own customers who are staying at their lower tier resorts? If that's the issue, then I do think they are blowing it. I think selling their low end rooms at the prices that they charge and then excluding those customers from benefits of staying onsite is a poor choice. I'd rather see them upsell tickets for early/late park hours. Then, it's free game for everyone who wants to pay.

In CA Disneyland, early entrance has always been for those staying in the Disney hotels only. They did have some ticket option that included one early entrance to DL, but as far as being able to enter a park early on each day of your stay - that's only been for those staying in the 3 hotels that they have.


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## Ty1on (Jul 1, 2021)

presley said:


> I think all DVC units are considered deluxe. At least that's one of the selling points - "always stay in deluxe accommodations."
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how this is different than before. Is it different because they are blocking their own customers who are staying at their lower tier resorts? If that's the issue, then I do think they are blowing it. I think selling their low end rooms at the prices that they charge and then excluding those customers from benefits of staying onsite is a poor choice. I'd rather see them upsell tickets for early/late park hours. Then, it's free game for everyone who wants to pay.
> 
> In CA Disneyland, early entrance has always been for those staying in the Disney hotels only. They did have some ticket option that included one early entrance to DL, but as far as being able to enter a park early on each day of your stay - that's only been for those staying in the 3 hotels that they have.



Yes, multi-day passes came with at least one early entrance for us at DL.


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## rhonda (Jul 1, 2021)

But now _every_ park will be open early _every_ day for _all_ on-site guests.  That is a *huge improvement* over having only _one_ park open early on most days.  All on-site guests win with this measure??


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## elaine (Jul 1, 2021)

Universal has had 2 tiers of benefits based--early access to all, but only express ride passes for higher priced hotels. Many will still stay at lower tier WDW hotels for early access (to all parks is a BIG plus), bus system, and theming. Those with small kids maybe won't care as much about PM EMH due to bedtimes. I've been glad they never went to paid fastpass+, etc. But, who knows what's in the future??
WDW has been $$$ for 20 years. My boss took her kids and stayed at Poly on dining plan, extras 15 years ago and it cost more than her 2 week honeymoon in Hawaii. IMHO, it's still reasonably priced for staying off-site and bringing some food/drinks in. Many theme parks don't allow food/drinks, not even water. My son spends almost $50/day at local theme park on food/drink. Onsite hotels are a luxury, but not necessary. If you carve out WDW hotel and extras (sit down meals, character encounters, dessert parties, etc.) then the big expense is tickets (which are high-but a 5 day base ticket is within reach or most middle class families for a "big" vacation-no more than skiing, sporting events, etc.). The tickets are more than other theme parks, but we all feel we've gotten our "value" out of them when WDW is fully operational (not Covid-lite), esp. with the shows like Beauty/Beast, Lion King, etc.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I just think this is wrong.  We own 500 Disney points and have the blue DVC ownership cards, all of us, including our three kids.  It's not like I don't get the value of the ownership and the accommodations, that is not it at all, but I do believe that people who cannot afford the expensive rooms should get some perks for staying onsite.  I just don't get how Disney can talk about being inclusive, which they are bragging about currently, and then they do something like this.
> 
> I get to stay at Disney resorts with RCI.  I guess that is what the $190 is for now.  Someone asked on another thread, and I guess this is the answer we can give.
> 
> ...



Disney has always been like that. It goes actually deeper than that. I teach at a 85% free/reduced lunch school within an hour of WDW and maybe 1/3rd of my kids have actually ever been there. I teach the advanced classes too (Chemistry and Anatomy). Most actually do have annual Busch Gardens passes because prices are reasonable. Disney sets their pricing to only cater to the upper middle class. Even the pricing to stay at the value resorts is catered to the upper middle class.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

You are all misunderstanding.  The DELUXE resorts are the only ones who will be able to use evening EMH.  No longer can value resorts (or whatever they call them) be allowed to take advantage.  The more expensive resorts will have better benefits.  You can gloss it over however you like, but DVC members are having a big argument on the Facebook group I belong to about getting rid of the riff raff.  Some are talking about selling their DVC points because of the exclusivity.  








						Disney World Brings Back Extra Magic Hours... Sort Of! - Inside the Magic
					

Disney is bringing back Extra Magic Hours, kind of… There will be early theme park entry and extended hours at the theme parks for select Guests at Walt Disney World beginning on the 50th anniversary of Walt Disney World. Here is what you need to know about this exciting new offering! Related...




					insidethemagic.net


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## TimeshareTraveller (Jul 1, 2021)

@cbyrne1184 - Until this last post, I was pretty sure that you worked for Wyndham.  :-D   You bought a Marriott?  Was it in Orlando?  The Grande Vista?  Those are lovely places.  Isn't Bonnet Creek a Wyndham?  I've heard lovely things about it. 

I do understand the frustration. We've stayed on-site at Disney several times both in the timeshares and in the budget/moderate/deluxe resorts.  I came close to buying Disney about 20 years ago, but now, I just don't trust them not to change the program so significantly that it will hurt anyone that buys Disney points.  SSR is kind of like the budget version of DVC, and it's the one found the most often on the RCI boards. Disney has its charm to stay on-site. 

What I'm finding on staying in any vacation destination is the uneven presentation of the accommodation. The room size and amenities of the resort are fine, but the cleanliness and the bed comfort leave a lot to be desired. With the entire world jumping into AirBnB, I've found that the few that I've engaged have been really uneven and dicey on comfort.  It's a relief to stay in a chain that has 1) comfortable beds, 2) decent hot water pressure in the bathroom, 3) nice amenities like a good pool.  But it seems that it's harder to find. I stayed at a Hilton in Myrtle Beach that was a condo owned by someone and rented through the front desk. I checked in expecting a Hilton with the comfortable beds and shower, and found myself in an aging condo that really needed updates and some plumbing work. I didn't realize it wasn't a corporate owned property. 

I'm searching for a timeshare in Myrtle Beach (or just bite the bullet and buy a beach condo) that would work to let me have my comfortable week or so every year without a lot of worry about it or effort to snag it.


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## rhonda (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You are all misunderstanding.  The DELUXE resorts are the only ones who will be able to use evening EMH.


But all on-site guests receive the newly expanded *morning* EMH.  Isn't this a gain?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

Already Disney has limited the new Riviera resort's benefits via resale.  If you buy resale Riviera, you can only book Riviera.  If you buy developer, you can stay in any resort with the points.  

The funny thing about DVC owners is they don't consider the losses of benefits to a buyer on their Riviera points, should they sell their ownership.  They only think about the benefits they get as the retail purchaser.  You have to look at the other side because the inability to use the points for any resort is a downgrade of your value on the resale market.  My DVC FB group just sees the one side.  I don't get it because if you have a death in the family and do not want the points any longer, the resale value could eventually really matter to you.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

rhonda said:


> But all on-site guests receive the newly expanded *morning* EMH.  Isn't this a gain?


It's always been that way, but EMH in the evenings were also always a benefit of staying at any DVC resort.  Covid changed things.  

My only point is that Disney claims to be more inclusive than ever:









						Diversity & Inclusion - Disney Social Responsibility
					

We reimagine tomorrow through stories and storytellers who inspire a more inclusive world.




					thewaltdisneycompany.com


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## Janann (Jul 1, 2021)

Here is another article in the link below.

There are 8 hotel resorts that Disney calls deluxe, and all 12 DVC resorts.  Every DVC resort is considered deluxe.

Also, it doesn't matter how you got into the DVC resort, whether you are a DVC member, RCI trader, points renter, cash guest, whatever.  If you are on the reservation at a DVC resort, you are considered a guest of a deluxe resort.  This is enough to give access for the evening hours.









						How Do You Qualify for Disney World's New Extended Evening Hours? - AllEars.Net
					

Recently, Disney announced that guests at select Disney World hotels will get to enjoy extended evening hours in the parks. But, what hotels qualify? We're breaking it all down here!




					allears.net


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## Janann (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's always been that way, but EMH in the evenings were also always a benefit of staying at any DVC resort.  Covid changed things.
> 
> My only point is that Disney claims to be more inclusive than ever:
> 
> ...


I didn't read everything, but I doubt if Disney's intent is to be inclusive at every income level.  They are measuring inclusivity by many standards, but income and ability to spend on vacation are not two of the standards.


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## rhonda (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's always been that way, but EMH in the evenings were also always a benefit of staying at any DVC resort.  Covid changed things.


Ah, I guessed I missed the "sameness."  Last time I visited WDW the Early Morning hours rotated to only one park.  Coordinating my "touring plan" around that specific early morning made for a hassle in my game.  I didn't realize it had already opened, before Covid, to all parks, everyday.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

Janann said:


> I didn't read everything, but I doubt if Disney's intent is to be inclusive at every income level.  They are measuring inclusivity by many standards, but income and ability to spend on vacation are not two of the standards.


But what other standards are there when it comes to vacations?  With Disney ticket prices being so high, accommodations that have all benefits are much more expensive, and the food is expensive, where are they being inclusive.  It's a joke.  

But I am one of the lucky ones, and so are people here on TUG, apparently, because most of you don't see it.  I own Disney points (didn't pay the prices of today) and I have enough money to pay for tickets and food while at the parks.  I am blessed.  I just am one who sees the garbage these business are spewing out without even thinking about what their policies look like to those who cannot afford Disney.  I see it and feel fortunate to see that their words do not even closely resemble what they charge.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 1, 2021)

rhonda said:


> Ah, I guessed I missed the "sameness."  Last time I visited WDW the Early Morning hours rotated to only one park.  Coordinating my "touring plan" around that specific early morning made for a hassle in my game.  I didn't realize it had already opened, before Covid, to all parks, everyday.


No, you are right.  The only other park that was opened every day for early hours was always Animal Kingdom.  So you are right and I am wrong on that.


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## rhonda (Jul 1, 2021)

The only thing we can mostly count on, here on earth, is change, hmm?  Disney is floating something new ... a little _give_ here, a little _take_ there.  The consumer will, over time, vote with their wallet and we'll watch to see how Disney adjusts along the path.


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## Ty1on (Jul 1, 2021)

rhonda said:


> The only thing we can mostly count on, here on earth, is change, hmm?  Disney is floating something new ... a little _give_ here, a little _take_ there.  The consumer will, over time, vote with their wallet and we'll watch to see how Disney adjusts along the path.



I think Disney figured out long ago that the consumer is not making rational market decisions when it comes to the parks.  And probably to DVC, for that matter.  Case in point, the description above of owners not flinching at the significant devaluing of future Riviera resales.


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## nomoretslt (Jul 1, 2021)

Maybe they should just do away with extra perks.  I remember how downright nasty things got when DVC members would get shut out of Moonlight Magic events.  Limited number of people means a better experience.  If people staying at deluxe resorts don’t agree with the extended evening hours for those staying at deluxe resorts, then they should not go.  There will be early morning access at ALL parks every morning for ALL on property guests. How much later will the parks be open in the evening?  Probably  two hours tops.  Not really worth getting upset about it.  Frankly I was more upset when they started to charge for parking at the resorts.  That was just a blatant money grab...doesn’t affect me really as a DVC member...however, I no longer try to grab a cheap room at Pop Century the day before I check in for my DVC stay. I now stay in the area right outside of Disney....room for less than $100, free breakfast and $15 to park.  
Getting to stay later in a park for paying more for your accommodations (and paying more to eat at the resort restaurants) is a nice perk.  Kind of like paying more for first class on your United Airlines flight.  Nice to have the extra perks.
As to the Riviera and resale....there is no problem selling on the resale market.  Contracts don’t last long....they are scooped up immediately.  I bought direct and am looking to add on resale.  Direct is $201 per point.  Resale is anywhere between $135 to $160, depending on contract size and points available.  It’s not the worst place to “have to stay at”.  It is a lovely resort.


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## Lisa P (Jul 1, 2021)

rhonda said:


> From how I read the article, all on-site guests get early entry ... now to all parks every day.  That is an expansion over the the former rotating park-of-the-day.


Not really an expansion. In real practice, the parks have frequently opened earlier than posted opening hours with headliner attractions boarding before the official opening time. Early entry parks were open 60-90 minutes before posted open hours. Saying now that all of the parks will allow onsite guests to enter 30 minutes before day guests will not cost Disney a cent. It simply means that day guests will not be able to enter the parking lots until official opening. Later hours will be the return of an actual benefit for onsite guests... but only for those who stay in Deluxe hotels and DVC Villas. More like Universal Florida's hotels... but with the higher admission costs of the Disney parks.


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## TravelTime (Jul 1, 2021)

I am not sure what the problem is with this. If I am paying extra to stay onsite, I want extra benefits. All companies do this. For example, all the cruise lines give extra perks to people paying for a suite such as early boarding and disembarkation. All companies have a higher tier of customers who pay more and get more.


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## TravelTime (Jul 1, 2021)

IMO, it’s funny that some people think some people are the “less fortunate” who can’t afford Disney. Is Disney some kind of entitlement? I do not think anyone is missing out on anything. 

I just took my girls to Disney and it was their first trip. They are 5 and 9. Prime ages for Disney. They were not interested. They preferred to stay at the hotel pool. I wasted so much time and money taking them on a 2 week trip to Orlando only to find out they prefer the pool and the beach over theme parks. I am happy I found this out now because we will not be going ever again. I felt ripped off because I could have spent a lot less money taking them to Hawaii for 2 weeks instead. And I would have enjoyed it so much more.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 1, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's always been that way, but EMH in the evenings were also always a benefit of staying at any DVC resort.  Covid changed things.
> 
> My only point is that Disney claims to be more inclusive than ever:
> 
> ...



What a fricking joke, like 90% of the people staying at a DVC resort are white.

Just ignore the people that don't contribute to making the world a better place. People are just sometimes completely clueless. I had some snobby woman in the hot tub chit chat and ask me what parks we went to at SSR in June when I had my 3 year old niece and 6 year old daughter being super cute together. I said we didn't go because I was local and I was waiting for APs to come back because I wasn't about to pay $70/day for all of us just to go there and she just gave me a weird look like it was nothing and I should have brought them. 

The woman just assumed the 3 year old was mine and gave me a snobby "well if you can't afford to do things like that then maybe you shouldn't have children" look. Apparently, I'm part of the "riff raff" those FB people don't want to deal with. 

My husbands side of the family are all low income workers (EBT, Medicaid recipients etc). I brought the 3 year old with me because it was something I could do for no additional cost that is something she is going to always have a memory of. I already have 1 niece living with me and I just don't have a bunch of money to spend on 4 kids that aren't mine.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 1, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> IMO, it’s funny that some people this some people are the “less fortunate” who can’t afford Disney. Is Disney some kind of entitlement? I do not think anyone is missing out on anything.
> 
> I just took my girls to Disney and it was their first trip. They are 5 and 9. Prime ages for Disney. They were not interested. They preferred to stay at the hotel pool. I wasted so much time and money taking them on a 2 week trip to Orlando only to find out they prefer the pool and the beach over theme parks. I am happy I found this out now because we will not be going ever again. I felt ripped off because I could have spent a lot less money taking them to Hawaii for 2 weeks instead. And I would have enjoyed it so much more.



Disney could easily add a 5th gate to reduce crowding and have reasonable ticket prices. DisneySEA (in Tokyo) is their highest rated park. They are more about raising prices to price out the majority of America.


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## Limace (Jul 1, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am not sure what the problem is with this. If I am paying extra to stay onsite, I want extra benefits. All companies do this. For example, all the cruise lines give extra perks to people paying for a suite such as early boarding and disembarkation. All companies have a higher tier of customers who pay more and get more.



They are removing a perk that all onsite guests used to have-evening extra hours-and giving it to just a few. People get to be unhappy about losing somethjng they valued, especially when hotel room prices and ticket prices sure haven’t dropped to compensate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 1, 2021)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> @cbyrne1184 - Until this last post, I was pretty sure that you worked for Wyndham.  :-D   You bought a Marriott?  Was it in Orlando?  The Grande Vista?  Those are lovely places.  Isn't Bonnet Creek a Wyndham?  I've heard lovely things about it.
> 
> I do understand the frustration. We've stayed on-site at Disney several times both in the timeshares and in the budget/moderate/deluxe resorts.  I came close to buying Disney about 20 years ago, but now, I just don't trust them not to change the program so significantly that it will hurt anyone that buys Disney points.  SSR is kind of like the budget version of DVC, and it's the one found the most often on the RCI boards. Disney has its charm to stay on-site.
> 
> ...



I just prefer Wyndham for how easy it is to get a cheap resale contract and how flexible their points system is. I bought Grande Vista. If you want MB, Hilton has the best properties there (Ocean 22 and Ocean Enclave). The MB Marriott only has 2 bedroom units.


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## TravelTime (Jul 1, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> What a fricking joke, like 90% of the people staying at a DVC resort are white.



When we were at Disney and Universal, there was a large percentage of non-whites. I do think Disney customers are diverse. I suspect the representation of non-whites at Disney was pretty high compared to the general population.

At the water parks, it was a majority of non-whites for sure.


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## presley (Jul 2, 2021)

Enjoy The Magic of Staying at a Disney Resort Hotel During Walt Disney World’s 50th Anniversary
					

We’re just 93 days away from “The World’s Most Magical Celebration” in honor of Walt Disney World Resort’s 50th anniversary, but who’s counting? As we near this special milestone, we are excited to bring you more details on new benefits



					disneyparks.disney.go.com
				




After reading the official announcement that I saw on a different forum website, I don't think this is anything to be upset about. 
*Just in time for the start of this magical celebration, on Oct. 1, we will be rolling out a new early theme park entry benefit for Disney Resort hotel guests and guests of other select hotels, giving them the first chance to enjoy select attractions at EVERY theme park, EVERY day. These guests will also be among the first each day to see the dazzling decorations and EARidescent excitement. Guests will need a valid ticket or pass and a theme park reservation for the same park on the same date for early theme park entry.

In addition, with the kickoff of the 50th anniversary, guests staying at one of our Disney Deluxe or Deluxe Villa Resort hotels will also be able to enjoy extended evening hours on select nights in select theme parks. Extended evening hours will begin in early October with specific dates and parks to be shared at a later time, so please be sure to check back on DisneyWorld.com for the latest. *

Basically, everyone staying at a Disney resort + people staying at other select hotels will have early entrance to every park every day. I think that is a giant new benefit.
Extended evening hours is only for those staying at Deluxe and DVC. I'm used to paying over $100/ticket to stay for extra hours at DL after already spending over $1K on an annual pass. So, it actually sounds cheaper to me to have a family at a Deluxe resort and not have to pay for tickets for each individual person.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 6, 2021)

Ha......just wait until they start charging for the fastpasses. 

I don't have an issue with this new policy. Pre-Covid their basically were no benefit for someone to stay at a deluxe resort. Why should someone pay $1000 per night when guests staying over at Allstars get exactly the same for 1/5th the cost? Deluxe Resorts are being creamed and are having a hard time getting people to book rooms. I also feel that this is temporary and is being used as a way to transition to a new pay-to-play fastpass system.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 6, 2021)

I agree that Disney is trying to fill their deluxe resorts, and I think it’s working. I’ve seen more than one post from people thinking about or in fact switching their reservations from moderate or from Swan/Dolphin to a Disney Deluxe to take advantage of these evening hours. And one other thought, from my dear husband - when we fly, do we resent the people in first class getting on and off the plane first, getting free drinks, having larger seats, more legroom, etc.?


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## elaine (Jul 6, 2021)

It also helps with DVC marketing. PM EMH is actually a "real" benefit for us.  We never used an AM EMH in any trip, but do like to stay in the parks until midnight. It should also be much less crowded with only Deluxe/DVC.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 6, 2021)

They are going to be charging for FP.


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## tomandrobin (Jul 6, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> They are going to be charging for FP.



Yup....Its coming!


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## elaine (Jul 6, 2021)

just announced DL Paris will charge for FP.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 6, 2021)

Charges for FP will separate those who can afford from those who cannot afford the extra perk.  

If you see a family in the park with sandwiches and drinks in a cooler, they are not going to be able to afford FP. Or maybe some families will choose a FP option and then not buy food they would regularly buy. Disney will lose in this move because this is not inclusive at all. 

Sure, if it's $10 per day for an add-on, people will pay it, and just about everyone will pay it.  But they won't do that, they will charge more like $50 per day (or more) because they cannot have everyone riding in the FP line; otherwise, the line for FP would be the longest.  

This seems so obvious to me, but those who can afford it will love it.  I can afford it, but I won't do it because I think it's unfair.  And I am cheap!

We rode during the pandemic and didn't wait very long for any ride, including the Seven Dwarfs ride.  That one was about 30 minutes.  No FP was great.  I loved it.


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## elaine (Jul 6, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Charges for FP will separate those who can afford from those who cannot afford the extra perk.


Universal has done this for years with a RIDEMAX type of pass. At peak times, it's over $100/PP/day. With a family of 4-5 people, I said no go to an extra $500/day on top of tickets and we just didn't go for 5 years until kids were in college and could go in Jan vs peak times of Xmas/Easter. WDW got our $$$, with 3 "free" FP. I just told DD that FP/FP+ worked great the past 10 years, and now it looks like it's coming to an end.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 6, 2021)

We never pay for the Universal Express and just stand in lines.  It's been fine.  But we go during the slower times of year.  I am actually a cheap person.  People do not know that about me, but that is who I am.  Our son and daughter-in-law can afford the rooms at the Loew's hotels and do get the perks.  They add us sometimes.  We stayed at the hotel one time and thought it was fine.  It was not as nice as a Marriott but the perks were great because two nights allowed us to use Express Yourself (??) for 3 days.  But I don't ride much at Universal.  I don't love roller coasters.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 7, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Charges for FP will separate those who can afford from those who cannot afford the extra perk.
> 
> If you see a family in the park with sandwiches and drinks in a cooler, they are not going to be able to afford FP. Or maybe some families will choose a FP option and then not buy food they would regularly buy. Disney will lose in this move because this is not inclusive at all.
> 
> ...



I think most people can 'afford' it, they just don't find it worth the cost. Personally, I can 'afford' DVC, I just don't think it's worth the money compared to Marriott and Wyndham. I personally like Wyndham the most (for value), then Marriott (for quality), then DVC (for theming). I just find value and quality more important than theming. Disney lost me as a customer with these changes to the queues. I'm getting Universal passes as soon as my 6 yo is vaccinated.


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## TravelTime (Jul 7, 2021)

elaine said:


> Universal has done this for years with a RIDEMAX type of pass. At peak times, it's over $100/PP/day. With a family of 4-5 people, I said no go to an extra $500/day on top of tickets and we just didn't go for 5 years until kids were in college and could go in Jan vs peak times of Xmas/Easter. WDW got our $$$, with 3 "free" FP. I just told DD that FP/FP+ worked great the past 10 years, and now it looks like it's coming to an end.



At Universal last month when we were there, their equivalent of a FastPass was almost $300 per day per person. And their “fast” line still had a wait on many of the most popular rides. Just not as long as their slow line.


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## TravelTime (Jul 7, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> I think most people can 'afford' it, they just don't find it worth the cost. Personally, I can 'afford' DVC, I just don't think it's worth the money compared to Marriott and Wyndham. I personally like Wyndham the most (for value), then Marriott (for quality), then DVC (for theming). I just find value and quality more important than theming. Disney lost me as a customer with these changes to the queues. I'm getting Universal passes as soon as my 6 yo is vaccinated.



Just curious why Disney lost you with charging for the FastPass but you are going to Universal where they were charging almost $300 per person per day for their equivalent of the FastPass? I suspect Disney is seeing how much money Universal is getting for a fast pass and they are just following the competition on this one.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 7, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Just curious why Disney lost you with charging for the FastPass but you are going to Universal where they were charging almost $300 per person per day for their equivalent of the FastPass? I suspect Disney is seeing how much money Universal is getting for a fast pass and they are just following the competition on this one.



Because they are paving the pathway to keep regulating park capacity and virtual queuing where you have to wait to even get into the regular queue in order to try to get people to spend more. There was a video on it on Youtube.







They need to build another park to reduce park capacity, not increase the prices to the point that most Americans can't even afford it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 7, 2021)

I read $17 for the most popular rides for FP, and I hope Disney World doesn't go that far.  I will stand in lines and spend my money at restaurants OFF SITE.

This last year we ate at Be Our Guest, Skipper's Canteen, Akershus, Biergarten, Mama Melrose's, Sci Fi, Hollywood and Vine, and those are just the ones I remember for now.  I won't be doing that next trip.  It will be sack lunches.  I am done with the money grab by Disney.  They aren't going to get a bunch more money from us.  They just are not.  If our son and his family want to pay for food, they can do it, but I won't be at the table with them.  It wastes time in the parks that we could be standing in lines for our admission price.


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## Ty1on (Jul 8, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Because they are paving the pathway to keep regulating park capacity and virtual queuing where you have to wait to even get into the regular queue in order to try to get people to spend more. There was a video on it on Youtube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you mean another gate at WDW or a new location?


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## cbyrne1174 (Jul 8, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Do you mean another gate at WDW or a new location?


another gate: DisneySEA


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## Gwendyc (Jul 8, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Just curious why Disney lost you with charging for the FastPass but you are going to Universal where they were charging almost $300 per person per day for their equivalent of the FastPass? I suspect Disney is seeing how much money Universal is getting for a fast pass and they are just following the competition on this one.


Not the above poster, but I understand. Universal is so significantly cheaper for our family, and my kids can't handle long waits in line. If we get less accomplished at Universal, they have never been there before and it's not as big of a deal as if they miss out on doing their favorites at Disney. However, my son told me he loves Legoland, and they are at the age where Seaworld's Sesame Street area is amazing to them, so we can kind of shift focus from Disney for a while, as long as we do a day or 2 at "Mickey's house."


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## Limace (Jul 8, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Just curious why Disney lost you with charging for the FastPass but you are going to Universal where they were charging almost $300 per person per day for their equivalent of the FastPass? I suspect Disney is seeing how much money Universal is getting for a fast pass and they are just following the competition on this one.



Because, as I’ve said above, you can get unlimited express passes for a family of up to five AND a deluxe hotel room at Universal, in easy walking distance to the parks, for $300 a night. Buying express pass at universal is insanely expensive, but getting it with a deluxe room is a really good deal-esp vs paying $60 for my family per ride a la DLP. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (Jul 8, 2021)

I was thinking about this topic of Disney vs Universal that has been discussed on this thread. We just got back from 2 weeks in Orlando. We will never return to Orlando again because it was too hot and crowded. However, I kept telling my husband that I much preferred to be in the Disney bubble than anywhere else in Orlando. 

Our overall worst experience was Aquatica. The food lines and ride lines were horrible and long. The food was missing at the restaurants. Things were broken. Staff was miserable. Second worst was getting in and out of Volcano Bay. There was a storm and everyone left Volcano Bay at once. There was absolutely no social distancing. In contrast, Blizzard Beach was such a piece of cake that we went there almost everyday after the Disney parks to cool off. 

I had to stand in line at Universal guest services for an hour in the heat for an issue I needed help with. When I did the same at Disney Guest Services, it took 5 minutes.

Disney felt so much less crowded than Universal. At Universal, it felt like wall to wall people esp in the afternoons. At Disney, we could walk down Main Street with plenty of space around us. We went to the Shrek show at Universal and they crowded everyone on top of each other. If I weren’t vaccinated, I would have needed to be admitted to the hospital with Covid after that. That experience proved to me that vaccines work.

Disney also had the best Covid policies. Universal did not require masks or do any capacity control at all.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 9, 2021)

Limace said:


> Because, as I’ve said above, you can get unlimited express passes for a family of up to five AND a deluxe hotel room at Universal, in easy walking distance to the parks, for $300 a night. Buying express pass at universal is insanely expensive, but getting it with a deluxe room is a really good deal-esp vs paying $60 for my family per ride a la DLP.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Deluxe hotels generally cost quite a bit more than $300.  I think we paid $380 + tax for our room.  It was not a cheap stay, and the Royal Pacific is looking old.  Our kids stayed at Portofino and had a really awful stay with a toilet that did not flush and attempts to get it fixed were in vain.  Their room was not worth the $440 they spent.  The kids are kind of over the Universal hotels but partly because there is not much for the 4-year-old to do.  Seuss gets a little old, and riding the Hippogriff over and over was her delight.  I think she went on it 20 times those few days.  She talked each adult into taking her several times.  Rick was tired of that ride, but she is a thrill seeker, very unlike Grandma.  

We won't be back with grandkids for a while, unless the older kids want to go.  Our granddaughter will be big enough for some of the rides at Universal about two years from now, but her twins (brother and sister) will not be able to ride anything for a long time.  I don't see the kids renewing their annual passes, unless we take care of the twins.  That might be tough for us, but we could do it.


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## Limace (Jul 9, 2021)

We paid $260 for HRH in May and it was lovey. As mentioned above, the annual pass rates are often amazing and a seasonal AP for one person is only about $20 more than the tickets we bought. 


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 9, 2021)

Limace said:


> We paid $260 for HRH in May and it was lovey. As mentioned above, the annual pass rates are often amazing and a seasonal AP for one person is only about $20 more than the tickets we bought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will be watching for some deals like that for just us.  We have AP's.  But I don't ride roller coasters, so there is a lot of down time for me at the parks.


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## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Deluxe hotels generally cost quite a bit more than $300.  I think we paid $380 + tax for our room.  It was not a cheap stay, and the Royal Pacific is looking old.  Our kids stayed at Portofino and had a really awful stay with a toilet that did not flush and attempts to get it fixed were in vain.  Their room was not worth the $440 they spent.  The kids are kind of over the Universal hotels but partly because there is not much for the 4-year-old to do.  Seuss gets a little old, and riding the Hippogriff over and over was her delight.  I think she went on it 20 times those few days.  She talked each adult into taking her several times.  Rick was tired of that ride, but she is a thrill seeker, very unlike Grandma.
> 
> We won't be back with grandkids for a while, unless the older kids want to go.  Our granddaughter will be big enough for some of the rides at Universal about two years from now, but her twins (brother and sister) will not be able to ride anything for a long time.  I don't see the kids renewing their annual passes, unless we take care of the twins.  That might be tough for us, but we could do it.



You are correct. In the summer, the cheapest hotel room at Hard Rock is about $600 a night. People are quoting low season rates for a basic hotel room when they say it is only $300 a night to stay within walking distance of Universal. I would not say that Hard Rock is a deluxe hotel by any means. Certainly not worth $600 a night for a tiny hotel room just to be able to walk to Universal. I guess it could be a good deal, though, for a family of 4 who can squeeze into a hotel room and get the $300 per day Express Passes included.  However, this same family of 4 would need to eat out all their meals and that would not make it affordable anymore so I doubt you get families squeezing into hotel rooms at Hard Rock or similar Universal properties.


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## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

Limace said:


> We paid $260 for HRH in May and it was lovey. As mentioned above, the annual pass rates are often amazing and a seasonal AP for one person is only about $20 more than the tickets we bought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



May is off season. In summer, it more than doubles.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jul 10, 2021)

We’ve booked deluxe UOR hotels twice as throwaway rooms, just to get the free EPs for our parties of 5 and 3 adults, respectively, when we were actually sleeping in other timeshare resorts. Once we added up the cost of the EPs and parking for 2 days, the hotel was cheaper. We’re going again in November and will probably do the same, although I haven’t done the math yet. DH and I find two days there enough, but my coaster-loving sister will probably go for three. She doesn’t mind riding alone and will do Rip Ride Rocket multiple times in a row.


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## djohn06 (Jul 11, 2021)

I don't have a problem with this.  

People can do a little research and rent deluxe rooms from a DVC owner.  In some seasons that room is $180 per night.  

We all know that Disney is constantly evolving.  If you are a consumer of its products, you take the ride along with them.


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