# Wyndham buying shell [merged]



## alexinorlando

Wyndham Vacation Resorts buy's Shell Vacations for $102 million.
This is great news more resorts for us to use.


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## simpsontruckdriver

The story. Yep, it is 100% true.

TS


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## simpsontruckdriver

*Wyndham Buys SHELL Vacations*

/Wyndham buys SHELL Vacations for $102,000,000 in cash

TS


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## massvacationer

*More Info*

PARSIPPANY, N.J. (AP) -- 

Wyndham Vacation Ownership has purchased privately held Shell Vacations LLC and its subsidiaries for about $102 million in cash.

The company said Friday that the transaction also includes $153 million of debt.

The acquisition gives Wyndham Vacation property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada.

It will also run Shell Vacations Club, a points-based reservation and exchange system, and manage all of the club's marketing, sales and financial services operations.

Wyndham Vacation, a subsidiary of lodging company Wyndham Worldwide Corp., says the deal will immediately add to earnings.

Wyndham Worldwide is based in Parsippany, N.J. Its shares finished at $53.97 per share on Thursday.


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## rrlongwell

simpsontruckdriver said:


> The story. Yep, it is 100% true.
> 
> TS



http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...p-acquires-shell-vacations-llc-169750326.html

http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/media/press-releases/press-release?wwprdid=1302


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## ronparise

lots of questions

but mainly: how will this affect me?

Will it be a separate system giving Wyndham 3 timeshare systems; Club Wyndham Plus, Worldmark and now Shell or will the shel resorts and owners be integrated into one or the other or both of the existing Wyndham systems

Hopefully we will be able to use our Wyndham points and Worldmark credits to make reservations...but I doubt it.


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## simpsontruckdriver

The one thing it does not mention is when the sale will complete, I'm guessing January.  I'm happy with that, as there are at least 2 places I would enjoy going to with the new resorts: NH and Phoenix AZ. But, it looks like we should be able to use our points, as Wyndham VO will be taking over the resort system.

TS


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## rrlongwell

simpsontruckdriver said:


> The one thing it does not mention is when the sale will complete, I'm guessing January.  I'm happy with that, as there are at least 2 places I would enjoy going to with the new resorts: NH and Phoenix AZ. But, it looks like we should be able to use our points, as Wyndham VO will be taking over the resort system.
> 
> TS



Called Owner care and ask if availability was going to come for the Shell resorts.  They indicated they do get emergancy E-Mails on issues but it is a "No No" for them to open them up and share information on the contents.


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## simpsontruckdriver

I wouldn't doubt it. The deal was done, but other than what is on the business sites, there's no other information they can give. It's not about what they can or can't tell us, it's what they have in front of them.

The best bet: wait until they plan out which Wyndham system they will put these under.

TS


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## Rent_Share

So Shell will be moving back to RCI ?

IMHO it will be like a DRI operation

Access to what you already own, the opportunity  for Wyndham to upsell current owners (shell) to CWA or other fine Wynddham products


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## rrlongwell

Rent_Share said:


> So Shell will be moving back to RCI ?
> 
> IMHO it will be like a DRI operation
> 
> Access to what you already own, the opportunity  for Wyndham to upsell current owners (shell) to CWA or other fine Wynddham products



Called Shell Vacation Club,they are not releasing anything at this point either.


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## alexinorlando

I believe it will be integrated with club Wyndham. It would not make sense to have it run as a third separate system. Having it run as a separate system would lessen the appeal to upgrade members of shell to Wyndham members. If they could have the would have made worldmark and Club Wyndham one, but could not due to the way worldmark was legally structured when it was started.


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## cotraveller

An announcement of the purchase is listed on the WorldMark web site also.  The announcement states:

"_*Wyndham Vacation Ownership Acquires Shell Vacations LLC*
Read more about our recent expansion by viewing the Wyndham Vacation Ownership press release._"

The press release is the same one listed earlier by rrlongwell in post #4.  There is no indication on the WorldMark web site as to what effect this might have on WorldMark owners or whether we will be able to book the Shell units.


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## rickandcindy23

THIS IS NOT GOOD!


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## rrlongwell

cotraveller said:


> An announcement of the purchase is listed on the WorldMark web site also.  The announcement states:
> 
> "_*Wyndham Vacation Ownership Acquires Shell Vacations LLC*
> Read more about our recent expansion by viewing the Wyndham Vacation Ownership press release._"
> 
> The press release is the same one listed earlier by rrlongwell in post #4.  There is no indication on the WorldMark web site as to what effect this might have on WorldMark owners or whether we will be able to book the Shell units.



From the sounds of this, it may be a Worldmark game.


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## ronparise

Ive just read a bunch if info on the Shell site as well as ainfo thread here on TUG,,I cant imagine how they will be integrated at our level....I think its going to be a third system

perhaps the unsold units will be put into Worldmark or Wyndham and the owners of fixed weeks in the shell system may have an option to convert to Shell or Wyndham , or not at all. but I doubt that they will convert all those already issued shell points to Wyndham points..I just dont see it happening


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## Sandy VDH

The people that I know in Shell have deed based point structure but that is for an affiliate.  But others are pure points, so now sure.  A bit like wyndham and a bit like worldmark.  But I guess either like worldmark, or a 3rd system. 

I sure hope they don't decide to add yet a third system to maintain.  

I am less than happy with how they have chosen to cross populate some Worldmark resorts in Wyndham.  They load inventory whenever the resort feels like giving it to them.  There are so few units in inventory that it is nearly impossible to access it.  So I hope it does not be another seperate system.

But in keeping with the W theme they are going to have to change Shell to Wshell or Whell.  Having an S will just not do.


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## rickandcindy23

Shell owners now enjoy daily housekeeping.  That will go away.  Shell also doesn't charge for guests, even when I bought resale.  That will also go away.  Wyndham will do everything it can to destroy Shell as owners currently know it.  The Napa Valley resort has excellent availability.  Don't count on it anymore.  

Just wait until next month, when we stay at Peacock Suites.  I will most definitely tell them what I think of the Wyndham acquisition, when they try to talk us into a Shell presentation.  I will tell them I am Platinum with Wyndham and know about the sale to Wyndham, and I am not happy. 

Being a Wyndham owner, I know we are like swarms of locusts on Wyndham inventory.  This is all I can picture is no ability to use my own points for my own stays.  I liked being able to take advantage of a five-day trip to California.  That will be gone, unless I plan a trip way, way ahead.  Wyndham is greedy.


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## Rent_Share

Sandy VDH said:


> I am less than happy with how they have chosen to cross populate some Worldmark resorts in Wyndham. They load inventory whenever the resort feels like giving it to them. There are so few units in inventory that it is nearly impossible to access it.


 

Most Worldmark owners feel the same about the Wyndham Inventory


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## ronparise

rickandcindy23 said:


> THIS IS NOT GOOD!



and now  we hear from a Shell owner

This is going to be a back office consolidation, and another profit center for Wyndham...nothing more....Good for the stockholders but no difference for us

I hope Im wrong, ...just saying


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## blr666

"The Napa Valley resort has excellent availability.  Don't count on it anymore."

I usually make my December and January stay in Napa during September.  I just tried to make it a couple of weeks ago and no availability.  I told my hubby something was up since I've been doing this for years and had no issues.  Also they just opened a new building, should have more availabilites.


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## bccash63

I would love to see some of the Shell properties available for Wyndham pts exchange I wonder if this is in the future.  dawn


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## am1

Shell owners will have the opportunity to convert to Wyndham points.  No new Shell resorts will be built. 

I am not an owner of Shell, ever stayed at a Shell resort or have any interesting in buying Shell.  But if I can get in there with Wyndham points that is good for me.


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## simpsontruckdriver

True. The only cities where there will be more than one resort would be Las Vegas, Anaheim, San Francisco, San Antonio, and a few in central California. In the end, I think both Wyndham and Shell owners will learn to enjoy the Wyndham system. Change is tough for almost everyone, but in the end, it's a good thing.

I also thought that it might be similar to Star Island. Star Island is a privately-managed timeshare in Kissimmee FL. Wyndham only puts people in the suites, they don't manage the resort. Maybe that will be their model - let the Shell resorts be managed themselves, while Wyndham puts families in their suites.

TS


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## ronparise

simpsontruckdriver said:


> True. The only cities where there will be more than one resort would be Las Vegas, Anaheim, San Francisco, San Antonio, and a few in central California. In the end, I think both Wyndham and Shell owners will learn to enjoy the Wyndham system. Change is tough for almost everyone, but in the end, it's a good thing.
> 
> I also thought that it might be similar to Star Island. Star Island is a privately-managed timeshare in Kissimmee FL. Wyndham only puts people in the suites, they don't manage the resort. Maybe that will be their model - let the Shell resorts be managed themselves, while Wyndham puts families in their suites.
> 
> TS



The one thing that is clear is that Wyndham is taking over the management:

"Under the terms of the agreement, WVO assumes property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada. WVO will now also operate Shell Vacations Club (SVC), a leading points-based reservation and exchange system featuring a wide variety of member benefits and travel options, and assumes management of all SVC marketing, sales and financial services activities. "

I really dont see any change for members (owners) in either club, ( I sure wouldnt want to be an employee of Shell)  but the fact that the press release is front page news on the Worldmark site, but not Wyndham or Shell site is telling...No?


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## Maple_Leaf

*I don't think so...*



simpsontruckdriver said:


> Star Island is a privately-managed timeshare in Kissimmee FL. Wyndham only puts people in the suites, they don't manage the resort. Maybe that will be their model - let the Shell resorts be managed themselves, while Wyndham puts families in their suites.
> 
> TS



The news reports indicate that "As part of the deal, Wyndham Vacation Ownership will assume property management operations at Shell resorts, take over operations of Shell's vacations club reservation and member benefit systems, and assume all Shell marketing and sales activities."  It looks to me like Shell is out of the timeshare business, period.  However, it will be interesting to see if Inn at the Park in San Diego is part of the deal.  To my knowledge it is not part of any Shell club.


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## Bill4728

ronparise said:


> I really dont see any change for members (owners) in either club, ( I sure wouldnt want to be an employee of Shell)  but the fact that the press release is front page news on the Worldmark site, but not Wyndham or Shell site is telling...No?



Worldmark or Wyndham ?? 


			
				Edited to add said:
			
		

> Remember that both of the companies are run by Wyndham BUT worldmark by Wyndham has completely different rules and policies than Club Wyndham



That is part of the problem with the company's announcement. I'm sure will find out soon.

But if it is worldmark, that will be a big plus for those of us who own at a shell resort. Our TS just went from no value to some value.


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## rrlongwell

Bill4728 said:


> Worldmark or Wyndham ??
> That is part of the problem with the company's announcement. I'm sure will find out soon.
> 
> But if it is worldmark, that will be a big plus for those of us who own at a shell resort. Our TS just went from no value to some value.



Welcome to Wyndhamland.  When I talked to Shell, they indicated that they might be sending out notication to Shell Owners.  When that happens, could you report what they say?


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## rickandcindy23

> But if it is worldmark, that will be a big plus for those of us who own at a shell resort. Our TS just went from no value to some value.



Bill, please elaborate.  I love Shell and cannot believe it's free on eBay, but Wyndham's control seems detrimental because Wyndham has stupid fees and rules, and they treat resale buyers much worse than Shell does.  What do you think are the positives.  I want to feel better than I do now about this takeover.  I am so upset, I cannot tell you.


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## Bill4728

> "But if it is worldmark, that will be a big plus for those of us who own at a shell resort. Our TS just went from no value to some value."



What I mean by this is that at this time, shell TS are of no value on the resale market. BUT worldmark TS have a significant value.  So if WM (not wyn) is taking over shell, shell owners may have just gotten into a much better system.  

On the other hand, if Wyndham ( not WM) is taking over shell than yes this is likely a bad thing for shell owners.


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## Bill4728

From the wyndham Worldwide website said:
			
		

> About Wyndham Vacation Ownership
> Wyndham Vacation Ownership, a member of Wyndham Worldwide’s family of companies, is the world’s largest vacation ownership business, as measured by the number of vacation ownership resorts, individual vacation ownership units and owners of vacation ownership interests. Wyndham Vacation Ownership develops, markets and sells vacation ownership interests and provides consumer financing to owners through its three primary consumer brands, CLUB WYNDHAM®, WorldMark by Wyndham, and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific.  Wyndham Vacation Ownership is headquartered in Orlando, FL, and is supported by approximately 13,700 employees globally.


So if Wyndham Vacation Ownership is doing the purchase and per the above quote from their website. There is no way to know if Shell is going to be in Club Wyndham or in Worldmark by Wyndham.


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## rrlongwell

Bill4728 said:


> So if Wyndham Vacation Ownership is doing the purchase and per the above quote from their website. There is no way to know if Shell is going to be in Club Wyndham or in Worldmark by Wyndham.



That is correct.  Wyndham Asia Pacific is the other one in the triad.  They do not appear to be a player in this.  

Talked to Shell Marketing Department, they indicated that the details should be worked out in the next few weeks.


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## bnoble

> I think its going to be a third system


That's my guess, too.  Integration seems as though it would have limited avenues for new profit to WVO, vs. just assuming the management contracts plus operating the existing sales infrastructure.  But, integration would be expensive.  No extra profit, but lots of extra expense?  Probably not going to happen.


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## rrlongwell

bnoble said:


> That's my guess, too.  Integration seems as though it would have limited avenues for new profit to WVO, vs. just assuming the management contracts plus operating the existing sales infrastructure.  But, integration would be expensive.  No extra profit, but lots of extra expense?  Probably not going to happen.



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44941

The above is a interesting thread.  It appears there is at least one points based club involved where the club owns the deeds.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178791


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## ronparise

rickandcindy23 said:


> Bill, please elaborate.  I love Shell and cannot believe it's free on eBay, but Wyndham's control seems detrimental because Wyndham has stupid fees and rules, and they treat resale buyers much worse than Shell does.  What do you think are the positives.  I want to feel better than I do now about this takeover.  I am so upset, I cannot tell you.




Club Wyndham  and Worldmark both fly under the Wyndham flag,, Worldmark members feel the same way you do about Wyndham, but they love their system and love that wyndham cant mess with it. Ie they had no junk fees before Wyndhan took over and they still have no junk fees. What they do seem to like is the way wyndham manages the resorts

So dont worry, at least not yet...its to early for us to know how this will unfold


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## massvacationer

I bet that they take any Shell-developer owner deeds (unsold or foreclosed) and toss them into Club Wyndham Access....and then try to persuade Shell Points and weeks owners to trade-in their Shell points/weeks towards a CWA purchase

I would like that, because it would give me access to some inventory at Shell resorts via my Club Wyndham Points


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## rrlongwell

*Welcome to Shell Vacation Club Owners*

I hope you feel you now have a home here on TUG on the Wyndham section.  The knowledge your group brings of the Shell Vacation Club system would be a very valuable assest to this Board.  Look forward to hearing from you.


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## vacationhopeful

Nice of you to offer a "Welcome to Shell Vacation Club" members. Of course, neither YOU nor I nor perhaps even Wyndham executives knows WHAT or HOW the Shell owners will become a member of the Wyndham Vacation family of timeshare systems. Or if it will be a totally separate club from the Club Wyndham Plus, Club Wyndham Access or WorldMark.

I would look at what has happen to Smuggs, but believe it will become part of the Club Wyndham Access for the unsold inventory and for conversions to Wyndham Points. Otherwise, the Fixed Deed Weeks will be like the older Club Wyndham Plus resorts - do what you want with your week, but RCI will not give you many TPUs for trading. I know, as I own some great Winter Snowbird Fixed Weeks, which get crap as TPU values.


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## chellej

Well as a Shell owner I am not at all happy.  Any idea what will happen to maintenance fees?  

I got out of Wyndham because I hated being nickeled and dimed to death.  I just can't see anything good out of this


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## learnalot

massvacationer said:


> I bet that they take any Shell-developer owner deeds (unsold or foreclosed) and toss them into Club Wyndham Access....and then try to persuade Shell Points and weeks owners to trade-in their Shell points/weeks towards a CWA purchase
> 
> I would like that, because it would give me access to some inventory at Shell resorts via my Club Wyndham Points



I think there is a good possibility of that.  Of course, we are all purely speculating so no one should get too worked up about anything until we see where things land.


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## cowboy

Can someone please explain the difference between Worldmark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacations and why does the majority of the posts prefer Worldmark over Vacations. What if you have a deeded floating week at a Wyndam resort are you a member of Worldmark or Vacations?


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## rrlongwell

cowboy said:


> Can someone please explain the difference between Worldmark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacations and why does the majority of the posts prefer Worldmark over Vacations. What if you have a deeded floating week at a Wyndam resort are you a member of Worldmark or Vacations?



The terminlogy is not great with the names you used.  Here are the commonly used ones for the usage intended:

Club Wyndham Plus
Club Wyndham Access
Worldmark by Wyndham or Worldmark the club

Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access have the same availability at 10 months and under.  Club Wyndham Plus are deeded properties.  Club Wyndham Access is a club based system where the club holds the deeds. Both are points based systems along with the Worldmark system.  

Depending on how it is being used, Wyndham Vacations can mean a whole lot things including the above and a whole lot of other things.

The above is a major over simplification of the maze of Wyndham named enities.

A majority do not necessarily support one system over another, remember, the people responding on this issue are a few in number.  There is a belief by some that Worldmark by Wyndham holds resale value better.

If you have a deeded week, fixed or floating, you typically are not a member any of the three systems I identified.  These are direct fractional ownerships that are not points based.


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## learnalot

rrlongwell said:


> There is a belief by some that Worldmark by Wyndham holds resale value better.
> 
> .



This is not "a belief by some".  It is a matter of fact.  

There was a merger of sorts about 5 years ago and Wyndham became the manager and developer for Worldmark.  Worldmark became Worldmark by Wyndham but there is not much overlap betweeen the two systems other than sharing the same developer.


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## Cheryl20772

Hey, VH...don't forget that RR talks with the front desk people everywhere he goes and is always on the phone to Wyndham finding out stuff for us.  If anyone knows what's happening with Shell, it's RR.  

Please, tell us everything you found out RR.  I read all of your posts and I want to know.


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## Picker57

Ditto here, especially since Shell is historically VERY slow at getting information out. Interesting to know the different types of Wyndham memberships - I guess time will tell what we SVC folks get.  Any rumors yet as to when changes take place? 

Thanks,
       -------Zach


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## simpsontruckdriver

And occasionally, Wyndham can rent WorldMark, and vice versa. There are some resorts I'd love


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## rrlongwell

Cheryl20772 said:


> Hey, VH...don't forget that RR talks with the front desk people everywhere he goes and is always on the phone to Wyndham finding out stuff for us.  If anyone knows what's happening with Shell, it's RR.
> 
> Please, tell us everything you found out RR.  I read all of your posts and I want to know.



Am at National Harbor now.  The members service Supervisor (aka guest pass people) got very excited and upset when I asked about the Shell Vacation purchase.  No information what so ever was forthcoming.

Just talked to a manager at National Harbor. She indicated that the Wyndham Vacation Plus program has taken over the Shell Vacation Club.  I do not believe this to be entirely true.  If Club Wyndham Plus is destined to be the receiptant of the unsold inventory, I think it will be sold as Club Wyndham Access and/or deeded UDI units (Towers on the Grove model).  To the extent that the Shell Vacation Club has one or more trusts that holds deeds for its members, my guess is that short term, these sub groups will continue as is.

P.S.  No newspaper for this Platinum Member again.

I cannot get the link to work for the by-laws of one of the home groups.  To get to the page, google Shell Owners Club - West amended bylaws


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## rrlongwell

simpsontruckdriver said:


> And occasionally, Wyndham can rent WorldMark, and vice versa. There are some resorts I'd love



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178872


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## Cheryl20772

rrlongwell said:


> P.S.  No newspaper for this Platinum Member again.


Hey at least they didn't tell you to "get out" this time!


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## am1

Cheryl20772 said:


> Hey, VH...don't forget that RR talks with the front desk people everywhere he goes and is always on the phone to Wyndham finding out stuff for us.  If anyone knows what's happening with Shell, it's RR.



A lot of it is wrong.  Be careful what you read on the internet.


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## DeniseM

I own in a system (Pahio) that was swallowed by Wyndham, and we did not really become part of Wyndham in any meaningful way.  In fact, to join Wyndham points, they wanted us to buy an additional week, from Wyndham, at full sticker price.  So I still own a week, with no points, and it's just managed by Wyndham.  However, when you call, you get the old Pahio office in Hawaii, so it seems like Wyndham just absorbed Pahio, rather than completely replacing it entirely - which is a good thing.

It will be interesting to see if Wyndham follows suite with the Shell owners in Hawaii...


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## easyrider

http://www.insidethegate.com/2012/09/wyndham-vacation-ownership-acquires-shell-vacations-llc/

It reads like Wyndham will be the developer for Shell like they are for WM.

"Under the terms of the agreement, WVO assumes property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada. WVO will now also operate Shell Vacations Club (SVC), a leading points-based reservation and exchange system featuring a wide variety of member benefits and travel options, and assumes management of all SVC marketing, sales and financial services activities."

Bill


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## am1

DeniseM said:


> I own in a system (Pahio) that was swallowed by Wyndham, and we did not really become part of Wyndham in any meaningful way.  In fact, to join Wyndham points, they wanted us to buy an additional week, from Wyndham, at full sticker price.  So I still own a week, with no points, and it's just managed by Wyndham.  However, when you call, you get the old Pahio office in Hawaii, so it seems like Wyndham just absorbed Pahio, rather than completely replacing it entirely - which is a good thing.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Wyndham follows suite with the Shell owners in Hawaii...



Yes everyone that converts to Wyndham points gives up their week which then goes into Wyndham availability.  A benefit for Wyndham owners as long as the amount of points needed is reasonable.


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## DeniseM

am1 said:


> Yes everyone that converts to Wyndham points gives up their week which then going into Wyndham availability.  A benefit for Wyndham owners as long as the amount of points needed is reasonable.



But, note that I said we couldn't join Wyndham unless we purchased a 2nd week from Wyndham at full sticker.  We didn't join.


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## am1

DeniseM said:


> But, note that I said we couldn't join Wyndham unless we purchased a 2nd week from Wyndham at full sticker.  We didn't join.



You wont but others will.  It is probably not as as bad a deal as you think.  As the week you own and the new one would count towards VIP.


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## DeniseM

am1 said:


> You wont but others will.  It is probably not as as bad a deal as you think.  As the week you own and the new one would count towards VIP.



It was a very bad deal - we had to spend a minimum of $20,000 and buy a week in Hawaii - $20,000 was for a garden view.  We own 3 ocean front weeks and we would NEVER convert them to Wyndham points.

I just got a 2 bdm. at Bonnet Creek through RCI for 12 TPU - no need for Wyndham points.


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## am1

DeniseM said:


> It was a very bad deal - we had to spend a minimum of $20,000 and buy a week in Hawaii - $20,000 was for a garden view.  We own 3 ocean front weeks and we would NEVER convert them to Wyndham points.
> 
> I just got a 2 bdm. at Bonnet Creek through RCI for 12 TPU - no need for Wyndham points.



If you think every developer purchase is a bad deal then they cannot change that.  

Is your weeks in Hawaii fixed or floating?  Or deeded to a certain week but floats?


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## DeniseM

am1 said:


> If you think every developer purchase is a bad deal then they cannot change that.
> 
> Is your weeks in Hawaii fixed or floating?  Or deeded to a certain week but floats?



They are floating, deeded ocean front.

I didn't say every developer purchase was a bad deal - I said I would not spend $20K for a garden view in Hawaii.  Not when I bought my ocean front units for an average of less then $1,000 each.


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## am1

DeniseM said:


> They are floating, deeded ocean front.
> 
> I didn't say every developer purchase was a bad deal - I said I would not spend $20K for a garden view in Hawaii.  Not when I bought my ocean front units for an average of less then $1,000 each.



What happens when there are only 3 units left floating?


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## DeniseM

am1 said:


> What happens when there are only 3 units left floating?



This resort was sold out before Wyndham took over, and most ocean front owners at the resort have not converted to Wyndham points because of the requirement to spend $20K on a developer purchase.  When you already own ocean front, why spend $20K more for a garden view?  We have no problem reserving exactly the unit and week we want.


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## rickandcindy23

Denise is right on this.  I have no idea who am1 is, or why he/ she is continually argumentative, but Shearwater owners own oceanfront units, too, and very few have been converted to Wyndham.  Wyndham has been in control of unsold inventory at PAHIO since about 2007 or 2008, cannot remember which, and Shearwater was long sold out by then.  All one has to do is check inventory through Wyndham's site, and you will see very few weeks available.  It tells the full story.  Inventory is scarce at Shearwater because owners didn't want to give up what they have.  

But I admit to converting 2 Shearwater weeks myself to gain Wyn VIP Platinum.  Wyndham promised free unlimited guest certificates at the sales table and took the benefit away.  We now pay $99 for guest certificates over and above our allotted number.  LIES.  I dislike Wyndham for so many reasons.


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## Picker57

rickandcindy23 said:


> But I admit to converting 2 Shearwater weeks myself to gain Wyn VIP Platinum.  Wyndham promised free unlimited guest certificates at the sales table and took the benefit away.  We now pay $99 for guest certificates over and above our allotted number.  LIES.  I dislike Wyndham for so many reasons.



Darn...and I thought they were some of the good guys.  This, along with the horror stories about Diamond and Westgate, makes Shell seem pretty decent.  We also paid developer prices to buy new points and convert our deeded week at Paniolo Greens (this was, obviously, before I discovered TUG). Sure, I regret being out the money but in the big picture I'm still glad we did it.  

Shell also has a VIP-type program - called their Elite Status.  It calls for 15K points at developer prices - roughly $90K.  Several inconsequential freebies, but at that rate they should cover the plane rides and green fees !  

Question: If you reserve a week under Wyndham management and then bank it with II, RCI, SFX, or whoever, does this trigger the guest fee? That seems steep. 

             Thanks,
                                  -------------Zach


----------



## rickandcindy23

SFX deposits, since it's an independent exchange company, yes, I had to pay the guest fee to give them an exchange.  SFX called me and told me what name to put on the guest certificate.  

RCI you don't deposit a Wyndham week, you use points, similar to Shell.  Certain number of points gets a certain exchange, governed both by size and season.  II has only a few II Wyn properties, and it seems as if maybe RCI will get all of the Wyn in the future.  I am so disappointed at the move of Shell to II recently.  It messed me up.


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have no idea who am1 is, or why he/ she is continually argumentative,



I am just asking questions.  Maybe the resort in Hawaii has low conversion now but that can change in the future.  Even you yourself said you converted.  I would expect all deedbacks to go into Wyndham points.  Shell owners are more likely to convert.  They would go from a small points program to a larger one.


----------



## DeniseM

Cindy already owns Wyndham points, so it makes more sense for her to convert.  I don't own any Wyndham points, so it just isn't cost effective for me.


----------



## am1

DeniseM said:


> Cindy already owns Wyndham points, so it makes more sense for her to convert.  I don't own any Wyndham points, so it just isn't cost effective for me.



Regardless of hers or your situation it can be worth it.  Depends on what one has and wants.


----------



## DeniseM

I already own 9 weeks, and belong to several different exchange companies.  What we own now works very well for us.  I can't think of anything that would induce me to spend $20K to join Wyndham points. YMMV


----------



## rickandcindy23

am1 said:


> I am just asking questions.  Maybe the resort in Hawaii has low conversion now but that can change in the future.  Even you yourself said you converted.  I would expect all deedbacks to go into Wyndham points.  Shell owners are more likely to convert.  They would go from a small points program to a larger one.


This is pure conjecture.  We have no clue what Wyndham will do with Shell, but I hope our system stays as-is.  I like it.  I remember when Shell points were expensive on eBay, but they became cheap to own and free usage, too.  I like Shell but I am not so fond of Wyndham.  If Shell ends up as a part of WorldMark, now that would be something.  But the two are still totally separate point systems.  I pay $2,500 in MF's for my 12,225 points.


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> This is pure conjecture.  We have no clue what Wyndham will do with Shell, but I hope our system stays as-is.  I like it.  I remember when Shell points were expensive on eBay, but they became cheap to own and free usage, too.  I like Shell but I am not so fond of Wyndham.  If Shell ends up as a part of WorldMark, now that would be something.  But the two are still totally separate point systems.  I pay $2,500 in MF's for my 12,225 points.



Well if Wyndham wants to make more money they will get people to convert.  Sell people on Shell adding more resorts to what Wyndham already has.


----------



## slabeaume

We were talked into converting our 2 Lagoon view weeks every year at KBV to Wyndham with the promise of being able to get oceanview units there.   It has been possible, but not easily and I had to book 10 months out.  But we didn't have to pay $20,000, either, or we would not have done it.  We paid $8,000 for EOY at Bali Hai and the conversion made us platinum owners.   For awhile I thought we made a big mistake, but have learned to use the system and have really gotten a lot of extra days out of it.  As for the guest fee, platinum doesn't get unlimited free guest fees anymore, but don't we still get 15?  And did the price raise from $49?   I've not had to pay one yet---our housekeeping, which is great on the many 2 night trips we've taken.  Also love the 1/2 off points and upgraded units within 60 days!  So I'm really beginning to like the system.  Went to Bonnett Creek for 5 nights in June for half the amount of points needed for a 1 bedroom and got a 2 bedroom unit.  Would love it if we could use our points to book at Shell!!  I love Kauai Coast Resort!  I wish Wyndham would get a resort on Maui!


----------



## slabeaume

I was a member of Worldmark and Pahio before I was a member of Wyndham.  When Wyndham took over "management" of them, it didn't really change much for either company.  We could have remained Pahio owners, but chose to convert, but many Pahio owners didn't.  I don't recall having the option to convert our Worldmark to Wyndham.  I can't see where Wyndham will automatically convert Shell into Wyndham.  If anything, maybe we'll be lucky enough to get a few unsold units in Wyndham inventory, but if it's like Worldmark and Wyndham, the cross inventory is VERY minimal.  I'm glad I own in both.


----------



## vacationhopeful

The Guest Certificate went from $49 to $99 *2 months after it went from $29 to $49. * Call in GCs are $129.
Plus Split reservations need 2 GCs if the guest's name is NOT entered at the time of booking.


----------



## Picker57

rickandcindy23 said:


> This is pure conjecture.  We have no clue what Wyndham will do with Shell, but I hope our system stays as-is.  I like it.  I remember when Shell points were expensive on eBay, but they became cheap to own and free usage, too.  I like Shell but I am not so fond of Wyndham.  If Shell ends up as a part of WorldMark, now that would be something.  But the two are still totally separate point systems.  I pay $2,500 in MF's for my 12,225 points.



Cindy - my sentiments exactly; the less change the better.  Thus far I'm not seeing a lot of upside for Shell owners. I can't remember ever paying a fee for guest usage under SVC. Our SVC fees are about the same rate as yours and I wish I needed more points because they're being, essentially, given away. 

Questions:  What is the 'free usage' you refer to? Prepaid dues at the time of purchase?
                  Your 'Worldmark' reference - would that be good or bad (dunno much about Wyndham)?

Hope we get some official details soon so I can quit my pre-emptive stressing

           Cheers,
                        ------Zach


----------



## vacationhopeful

Picker57 said:


> ...                  Your 'Worldmark' reference - would that be good or bad (dunno much about Wyndham)?
> 
> Hope we get some official details soon so I can quit my pre-emptive stressing
> 
> Cheers,
> ------Zach



Zach,
Wyndham Vacation resorts currently has 3 units with differing pools of resorts and units. Worldmark is the most separate with a different point structure and even different resorts. Many of the resorts are in the Western USA and their resorts have very limited number of units which can be booked by either the Club Access or Club Plus point owners.

The following section deals with Wyndham Club Plus and Wyndham Club Access:
Club Wyndham Access is the newest of the 3, and is similiar to Club Wyndham Plus except for ARP (Advanced Reservation Priority) booking windows and HOW an individual member gets to book those 13-11 month OUT reservations. This AM, I booked several reservations for Oct 16, 2013 at Wyndham Ocean Walk using my ARP - as some of my UDI points are Home Resorted there. My recorded deed for those points is Ocean Walk. General reserations for PLUS owners without a deed there usually starts at 10 months out or Dec 16 for most owners (exceptions may apply if a VIP owner). Club Wyndham Access may or may NOT have some deeds in there trust for that resort AND if would also have to have 2013 deeded points there NOT already booked, for their members to get ARP at Ocean Walk. It is a BIG secret as to HOW MUCH ARP Club Access members have (and what type of ARP) at their resorts --- they only own at a partial group fo the Wyndham Vacation Resorts, but at the 10 month mark, they can use their points at ALL the Wyndham resorts in the Club Wyndham Plus pool. Access and Plus have rules and seemly more nuisance fees.

I have very limited knowledge of Worldmark and its resorts. They are that different and separate. I do know that Worldmark has ownership of deeded units at Ocean Walk and that inventory does NOT mingle with the Wyndham Plus and Access --- rumor has it that their units even have different decor and are on separate floors. 

So rumors ... well, that is all we have right now for Shell and Wyndham. And Wyndham Sales is very good at "SPIN" and "FEAR" in trying to sell their points systems - esp Access and Plus.


----------



## Picker57

Thanks Linda - Will try to get my head around this after we get The Word from Shell.  Wow...I think the invasion of Normandy had fewer moving parts than Wyndham.

------------Zach


----------



## rrlongwell

Picker57 said:


> ... Hope we get some official details soon so I can quit my pre-emptive stressing ...



In the interest of creating a false sense of security to get rid of you're pre-emptive stressing, go to your Homegroup documents (if you are in the Points based system) and pull out the by-laws read them over.  I think you will find that there are some protections in their for you and that the Wyndham changes, if any, will not be immediatly implemented.  

If you can believe the document until the Wyndham changes come, you should be able to get rid of the pre-emptive stressing.  It may change to a Panic mode when Wyndham sales catches up with you.  Just bear in mind, do not let their artifical sales pitches panic you to much.

P.S.  Do not forget, if you actually like the part of the sales pitch that Wyndham has great resorts, then you can do what they will probably forget to mention, if Wyndham is pitching Club Wyndham Plus/Acess, you may not have to buy a new unit to do it.  Give Coorporate Sales a call (not in front of the sales rep, unless you want to have some fun) and ask them how much to convert your unit to points minus the new purchase.  See what they would have to say.  Do not tell Corporate sales you are at the resort or they will probably not talk to you until you leave the resort.


----------



## rickandcindy23

Maybe you should consider buying Shell.  I hope Shell remains as it is today because even though the fees are fairly high, I can stay weeknights and stay cheaply just about anywhere.  Inventory is huge at the CA resorts a year out.  I enjoy the preference period for reservations into my own club.  But if you want to know the truth, if WorldMark should take over Shell, I might be rather excited at the possibility of having use of that system.  Or maybe I should just buy into it and stop talking about it.  

I am the same with Hilton.  I don't buy but wish I owned it.


----------



## Picker57

Don't think that'll work for me; we're completely in Shell Points, and most definitely not interested in buying more stuff.  But thanks for your kind considerations for my pre-emptive stressing. Hey, everyone needs a hobby, right? 

         ZK


----------



## rrlongwell

Picker57 said:


> Don't think that'll work for me; we're completely in Shell Points, and most definitely not interested in buying more stuff.  But thanks for your kind considerations for my pre-emptive stressing. Hey, everyone needs a hobby, right?
> 
> ZK



Right.  By the way you are welcome.


----------



## rickandcindy23

> Questions: What is the 'free usage' you refer to? Prepaid dues at the time of purchase?


All of my Shell purchases were free, with free closing, and that year's use included.  Some I bought in 2010, but most in 2011, all free usage.  My first purchase was a March use-year, and all of my other purchases up to the 12,225 we now have were all put into the same use-year.  Of course I only own in CA, or I would have to pay higher fees.  The more you have, the cheaper they are in MF's.  I don't know if this news is all that bad, and it has crossed my mind to buy more, in case it ends up being a good thing.  But then Wyndham's changes of our ownership to benefit the corporation financially was my reason not to buy more.


----------



## PearlCity

rickandcindy23 said:


> Maybe you should consider buying Shell.  I hope Shell remains as it is today because even though the fees are fairly high, I can stay weeknights and stay cheaply just about anywhere.  Inventory is huge at the CA resorts a year out.  I enjoy the preference period for reservations into my own club.  But if you want to know the truth, if WorldMark should take over Shell, I might be rather excited at the possibility of having use of that system.  Or maybe I should just buy into it and stop talking about it.
> 
> I am the same with Hilton.  I don't buy but wish I owned it.



I was looking into shell too vice Hilton but now idk! Sigh...


----------



## rrlongwell

PearlCity said:


> I was looking into shell too vice Hilton but now idk! Sigh...



You may want to be careful not to jump to conclusions.  The Wyndham Vacation Resorts system has great resorts.  

It also may very well be that the Shell points based system may not integrate into any existing Wyndham points based system and that just unsold inventory may become available to the existing point based system(s) for Wyndham.  If Shell was better than Hilton, in your opioion, then it probably still should be.


----------



## simpsontruckdriver

Like I said elsewhere, probably 95% of all complaints about Wyndham on the BBB are sales issues. The resorts are wonderful, their policies can be a little aggravating, but the people who work for Wyndham resorts (not sales) are great!

One thing that would help, if Wyndham cared about their BBB rating, is to spin off the sales department. If they did, the Wyndham score would skyrocket, while their sales department would stay 'F'.

TS


----------



## Deb from NC

We loved the Shell Property in Tucson (Starr Pass)..sure would love to be
able to get into it with Wyndham points


----------



## FractionalTraveler

*Wyndham Vacation Ownership Acquires Shell Vacations LLC*

Not directly related to Marriott but interesting industry news nonetheless:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178849

Is consolidation on the way?  How will Marriott respond?


----------



## jdunn1

For what it is worth, this news was posted on the WorldMark site and not the Wyndham site so it may be a WorldMark consolidation verses Wyndham.  Wyndham manages WorldMark, too.  WorldMark has been adding a new property each of the past two months.  Nothing very exciting from my standpoint, though.  Shell is nothing I am excited about.


----------



## GregT

FT,

I've been tracking this with interest -- I'm sure that Shell would have approached all the Majors as part of a sale process, and Wyndham was the high bidder.

For comparison purposes:

1) Shell has 19 (good) properties, well located
2) Shell has ~115,000 owners
3) Shell was purchased for $102M in cash, $153M in debt assumed

By comparison:

4) Marriott has ~60 (excellent) properties, well located
5) Marriott has ~400,000 owners
6) Marriott is currently valued at $1.2B

Clearly there is an value premium associated with the Marriott network of properties, revenue stream, and perceived future revenue growth.

What interested me is the dog that didn't bark -- neither Hilton, Hyatt nor Marriott were willing to expand their systems in a bold move like this -- at a cost of $100 million in cash.  

Wyndham on the other hand is willing to buy entire enterprises (Worldmark, RCI, and now Shell) to expand their operations.  Wyndham is truly the 800-lb gorilla in the timeshare world.

Hilton is happy to expand one property at a time -- absorbing existing buildings and folding them into the network.   It is rumored that 5 locations will be announced soon for Hilton, in addition to the four or five that have been added since 2010.   All existing buildings with financial terms not disclosed.  

Marriott is happy to expand by leveraging its existing holdings and remaining focused on internal execution versus further property expansion.  I wasn't surprised Marriott passed on Shell because Shell isn't worth 8% of Marriott's existing enterprise value -- and I don't think Shell properties are perceived to be the same caliber as Marriott (and they may or may not be, I've not visited one).

So Wyndham may become the consolidator of the independents.   Who is next for them?  DRI?  BlueGreen?   

Interesting to observe from afar, but the Shell acquisition (to me at least) appears less relevant to Marriott than HGVC's steady accumulation of high quality properties that couldhave been a part of Marriott if Marriott was in acquisition/property expansion mode.

Both parties were a little late in different ways -- Marriott was late in introducing a point system and HGVC was late in diversifying its portfolio of properties.   Starwood, by comparison, appears content to remain on the sidelines and simply churn deeds through ROFR and resale.  

Interesting stuff....

Best,

Greg


----------



## jebloomquist

*maintenance fee/ points?? home resort??*

As I look at ebay Shell auctions I see a variation from $.21/point to $.56/point. Most of the mf $/point are iin the 20-30 cent range. There are some auctions offering 9,000 points with an annual mf of $1,870-$1,900. 

What can an owner get for 9,000 Shell points? 

Most of the auctions don't seem to have a home resort. Some just list things such as Shell Vacations Club Hawaii. Other state just Shell Vacations Club.

When you buy, what are you actually buying?

One of the nicest resorts I ever stayed at was Shell in Phoenix (Shell Legacy Golf Resort). The accommodations were excellent.

Depending upon what Wyndham does with Shell properties, they may become attractive.


----------



## rickandcindy23

Greg, that was a good analysis of the systems.  I am not a logical, left-brained person, so I could never put into words what you did.  

I hope for Shell's sake that nothing is changed substantially; although, I think Shell overdoes the housekeeping (daily), and I don't like having such an intrusion on my vacation time.  I feel like I have to leave, and I always feel concerned about my stuff with someone in the unit every day.  

I love the Shell resorts, and I know some have no use for more Arizona or more Hawaii, the California resorts, specifically the San Francisco and Napa ones, are going to be highly desired by those who will suddenly get access.  It's disappointing to say the least that we will probably share inventory with scads of new people, and we probably will not have access to their inventory without a conversion fee of some kind.  I am not happy at all.


----------



## jebloomquist

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am not happy at all.



Why don't you suck it up and find the silver lining? As a Wyndham owner, that is what I am trying to do. Even for you, there has to be some way to leverage this purchase.


----------



## simpsontruckdriver

I'm not sure how much gets what in Shell, but in Wyndham, 300,000 points is around $1869 per year ($0.00505/point). Of course, the $/point varies by resort. I think if Wyndham converts all policies to theirs, other owners may like not having housekeeping. Plus, they would need to convert users' Shell points to Wyndham points.

For those of us who do not work for Wyndham or Shell, we can only speculate, since nothing will be known for a while.

TS


----------



## rrlongwell

simpsontruckdriver said:


> I'm not sure how much gets what in Shell, but in Wyndham, 300,000 points is around $1869 per year ($0.00505/point). Of course, the $/point varies by resort. I think if Wyndham converts all policies to theirs, other owners may like not having housekeeping. Plus, they would need to convert users' Shell points to Wyndham points.
> 
> For those of us who do not work for Wyndham or Shell, we can only speculate, since nothing will be known for a while.
> 
> TS



Interesting.  If you are a rentor bee, then the following post might be of interest.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179065


----------



## Rumpled

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...I think Shell overdoes the housekeeping (daily), and I don't like having such an intrusion on my vacation time.  I feel like I have to leave, and I always feel concerned about my stuff with someone in the unit every day.....



Cindy, (assuming it is Cindy posting)
Our experience with Shell in Napa was daily housekeeping.  Our experiences at the Legacy in Phoenix and Kona Coast Resort on Hawaii were just once per week.  Our manual says one per week, but most of our stays have been at the Vino Bello in Napa.  Seems the housekeeping frequency may vary, with some sticking to the published rules and some giving more service.


----------



## bnoble

Ed, over at the Wyndham owners' forum, is usually pretty well plugged in.  His informed guess is that Shell will remain standalone, and not be folded into either Wyndham or WorldMark.

http://forums.atozed.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=11766


----------



## jberndt10

*Hope it's Wyndham*

 Actually very excited about the possibility of using my Wyndham points to stay in Door County, WI. Have told sales people for years they need to be there. Just search Door County in the Central US board and you'll see why.


----------



## simpsontruckdriver

I also like the idea of going - via Wyndham - to Wisconsin and NOT staying in the Dells. Nothing wrong with the Dells, but WI is gorgeous north of there!

TS


----------



## am1

jebloomquist said:


> Why don't you suck it up and find the silver lining? As a Wyndham owner, that is what I am trying to do. Even for you, there has to be some way to leverage this purchase.



Its easier to be negative.


----------



## chellej

jebloomquist said:


> Why don't you suck it up and find the silver lining? As a Wyndham owner, that is what I am trying to do. Even for you, there has to be some way to leverage this purchase.



well. like Cindy, I am not happy BUT I owned Wyndham - did not like all the nickel and diming and gave it away. I bought shell because I wanted to be able to stay oceanfront and am willing to spend the extra maintenance to get it.

What concerns me is 2 things, if this merger will decrease the availbility of shell properties to me and how the maintenance fees will play out.  I will be very annoyed if as a shell owner in Hawaii I pay $1200 in maintenace fees for an oceanfront week at the kauai coast and wyndham owners will be competing for the same availability  at a lower cost.

If it is left as standalone - then who cares


----------



## CO skier

Follow the money:

This consolidation is where the money lies for Wyndham





ronparise said:


> This is going to be a back office consolidation, and another profit center for Wyndham...nothing more....Good for the stockholders but no difference for us





chellej said:


> Well as a Shell owner I am not at all happy.  Any idea what will happen to maintenance fees?
> 
> I got out of Wyndham because I hated being nickeled and dimed to death.  I just can't see anything good out of this



1)  Maintenance fees will increase at a higher than historical rate

2)  You will be nickel and dimed to death


General observations:



ronparise said:


> ...  but the fact that the press release is front page news on the Worldmark site, but not Wyndham or Shell site is telling...No?



The fact that the press release appears on the WorldMark site probably has more to do with the fact that the WM Annual Meeting is next month than anything else.




Bill4728 said:


> Worldmark or Wyndham ??
> 
> 
> But if it is worldmark, that will be a big plus for those of us who own at a shell resort. Our TS just went from no value to some value.



The chance of Shell TS increasing in value is zero, because the resale value is directly related to maintenance fees -- Shell is relative high (but, apparently the resort are nicer than WM), and WM maintenance fees are relatively low.  Even if the two systems could be integrated (highly unlikely), the point cost for the bedroom size Shell would be twice that of an equivalent WM.

Location, Location, Location:

If you like the Wyndham locations, buy Club Wyndham Plus in one of its various forms.  If you like WorldMark locations, buy WorldMark.  Where they share resorts, the stay in a Wyndham room is almost twice the cost in maintenance fees of the equivalent WM room .  If you like the Shell locations, buy Shell.  Trading between the three systems will be minimal.

Short story:

This is bad news for Shell owners.  For Wyndham and WorldMark owners, this is a non-event.


----------



## am1

I just do not understand how people can think that shell owners will not be given the chance to upgrade to Wyndham points and unsold or returned inventory at the shell resorts would not be sold as wyndham points.  Is there something in the shell documents preventing this?


----------



## CO skier

am1 said:


> I just do not understand how people can think that shell owners will not be given the chance to upgrade to Wyndham points and unsold or returned inventory at the shell resorts would not be sold as wyndham points.  Is there something in the shell documents preventing this?



It is a certainty that Wydham will offer an opportunity for Shell owners to upgrade to "something" at some unreasonable cost.  (I own Club Wyndham Select points and do not think that a conversion from Shell to Wyndham points would be considered an "upgrade":rofl: )  This, and some unsold inventory will provide the minimal trading opportunities with the other two systems.  (Some, probably not all) Shell locations will just be "Affiliated Resorts dots" on the Wyndham and WorldMark maps.  History repeats.


----------



## CO skier

It's late at night, and I was dreaming that I was a Wyndham executive.  I added Shell vacations to WorldMark, but only as part of the TravelShare program.  "You can only access our NEW resorts by upgrading your (WorldMark) ownership to TravelShare."  Sales opportunities galore.

And, for Wyndham, "Introducing our new Executive Club Wyndham Access program.  Enjoy front-of-the-line access to our NEW resorts only by upgrading your timeshare ownership.  (Current Club Wyndham Access members receive a discount upgrade opportunity, but only for a limited time)."  Sales opportunities galore.

The Shell locations weren't just dots on a map, anymore, they were large stars (in red, because everyone knows that red sells more than other colors).

Then I got a promotion.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> I just do not understand how people can think that shell owners will not be given the chance to upgrade to Wyndham points and unsold or returned inventory at the shell resorts would not be sold as wyndham points.  Is there something in the shell documents preventing this?




  Why do I think that...because thats not the way Wyndham works      

        Wyndham owns over 15 different hotel brands and offers hotel and motel owners the opportunity to operate under any of their flags. Each one has a different market niche and different franchise rules.  

I think the same with their timeshares. They will grow each one on its own

I do think that we will probably see more shared resorts like Daytona, where all three systems may have inventory under the same roof, along with fixed week and floating weeks owners and perhaps even some whole condo ownership...I dont think Wyndham will go the same route as Europe did with their currencies and create a new super currency like the Euro that will work in all three systems


----------



## am1

The hotel brands are to differentiate each other in the market place.  I do not see the timeshares needing to do that.  Unless the sales people want to trash the other.  Get two chances at selling people.

I do not see Worldmark getting the inventory.  It seems the documents/owners give management a lot more trouble.


----------



## NHTraveler

Today I heard Shell inventory will go to Access.  It will take about a year to complete it.  That said, not sure how accurate this info is.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> The hotel brands are to differentiate each other in the market place.  I do not see the timeshares needing to do that.  Unless the sales people want to trash the other.  Get two chances at selling people.
> 
> I do not see Worldmark getting the inventory.  It seems the documents/owners give management a lot more trouble.



Which is exactly the same point Im trying to make. Shell will appeal to a different buyer than Worldmark, or Wyndham... and now Wyndham will be able to get their money too


----------



## Maple_Leaf

*Maybe*



am1 said:


> I just do not understand how people can think that shell owners will not be given the chance to upgrade to Wyndham points and unsold or returned inventory at the shell resorts would not be sold as wyndham points.  Is there something in the shell documents preventing this?



Shell has different memberships, therefore different membership agreements.  For example, Direct Members do not have a pre-set number of points. Instead, Shell Vacations assigns points to direct members when they request an exchange. The number of club points will vary depending on Shell Vacations' estimate of the value of the vacation experience for the direct member's use rights.  However, Premiere and Founding Members have club points per their membership agreement.  Shell apparently has a lot of different moving parts and who knows how they will fit into Wyndham?


----------



## ptkkmmm1

*Shell owner just wanting to keep track of the Wyndham changes*

Wyndham sounds really complicated.  We have about 11,600 SVC points.  I can do all we need or want with that and the two weeks we own in a different system.  Still, I am hopeful we will have some kind of priority booking into other Wyndham properties but concerned it will degrade what we can do within the Shell properties. Anyway, I hope to remain on top of the changes that are coming.  This website has been really good for that and remains that way.


----------



## JanB

*What about Shell Property Management Resorts?*

We are owners of several weeks at the Kona Coast Resort.  Shell is our property manager and has been a great partner to our HOA.  Our maintenance fees have been one of the lowest in Hawaii compared to many other Hawaii resorts.  With Wyndham taking over the management, what will happen now?  Mfs only go up, but by how much now?

We also own Wyndham points and have enjoyed the flexibility of the points and the many properties and locations to choose.


----------



## am1

ptkkmmm said:


> Wyndham sounds really complicated.  We have about 11,600 SVC points.  I can do all we need or want with that and the two weeks we own in a different system.  Still, I am hopeful we will have some kind of priority booking into other Wyndham properties but concerned it will degrade what we can do within the Shell properties. Anyway, I hope to remain on top of the changes that are coming.  This website has been really good for that and remains that way.



It will be hard to have it both ways.  Unless you make a developer purchase.


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## Picker57

ptkkmmm said:


> Wyndham sounds really complicated.  We have about 11,600 SVC points.  I can do all we need or want with that and the two weeks we own in a different system.  Still, I am hopeful we will have some kind of priority booking into other Wyndham properties but concerned it will degrade what we can do within the Shell properties. Anyway, I hope to remain on top of the changes that are coming.  This website has been really good for that and remains that way.



Today's blurb from Shell proclaims there will be no changes for Shell members, that we're still in I.I., we'll continue the same fine service, yada yada.  Hope it's true.  I did query them on which of the Wyndham programs we might browse for available resort inventory.  Dunno about priority bookings for Wyndham properties - that may be asking a lot,  but I doubt that it's any worse than the RCI search results we were getting.

 --------Zach


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## mimi67

*Wynham acquires Shell Vacation Club*

I am a current shell owner; we've just been told that Wynham has acquired Shell.  I wonder how they will integrate points systems, etc. I don't know much about Wynham.  Any input appreciated on what to expect from Wyham.


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## simpsontruckdriver

Scroll down, or do a search (above), there are plenty of posts about Wyndham's takeover of Shell.

TS


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## lcml11

A Wyndham Resort is finally talking about the takeover of Shell by Wyndham,  the person indicated that they just got offically notified of the takeover a week or so ago.  Only 16 of the Shell properties are being taken over.  He said they also took over the Shell rental arm and that were strong and well managed.  He also indicated that the Shell properties are going to be managed seperately.  There was nothing particularly new with this information other than Wyndham is now permitting it to be said at resort level


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## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> A Wyndham Resort is finally talking about the takeover of Shell by Wyndham,  the person indicated that they *just got offically notified of the takeover a week or so ago*.  Only 16 of the Shell properties are being taken over.  He said they also took over the Shell rental arm and that were strong and well managed.  He also indicated that the Shell properties are going to be managed seperately.  There was nothing particularly new with this information other than Wyndham is now permitting it to be said at resort level



Maybe they should have read the press release of September 14th that stated WVO assumed property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations.


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## Bill4728

As of this week there is no sign at all that Wyndham is taking over at the whistler location "Mountainside Lodge"  Per the front desk they have heard little to nothing from Wyndham and are still getting all their pay and instructions from Shell.


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## Picker57

*I keep hearing from Shell that nothing's going to change. The following piece was in an article in Timesharing Today about the acquisition.*

" Under the terms of the agreement, Wyndham assumes property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada. Wyndham will now also operate Shell Vacations Club and assumes management of all Shell marketing, sales and financial services activities."

*Maybe I'm paranoid, but that doesn't sound to me like 'nothing's going to change'.  Thoughts? 

              ----------Zach*


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## ronparise

Picker57 said:


> *I keep hearing from Shell that nothing's going to change. The following piece was in an article in Timesharing Today about the acquisition.*
> 
> " Under the terms of the agreement, Wyndham assumes property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada. Wyndham will now also operate Shell Vacations Club and assumes management of all Shell marketing, sales and financial services activities."
> 
> *Maybe I'm paranoid, but that doesn't sound to me like 'nothing's going to change'.  Thoughts?
> 
> ----------Zach*



I read that and see "no changes" except that now Wyndham will manage the system instead of Shell


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## lcml11

Picker57 said:


> *I keep hearing from Shell that nothing's going to change. The following piece was in an article in Timesharing Today about the acquisition.*
> 
> " Under the terms of the agreement, Wyndham assumes property management operations at 19 Shell resort locations in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Wisconsin, Texas, New Hampshire and Canada. Wyndham will now also operate Shell Vacations Club and assumes management of all Shell marketing, sales and financial services activities."
> 
> *Maybe I'm paranoid, but that doesn't sound to me like 'nothing's going to change'.  Thoughts?
> 
> ----------Zach*



Other than resorts are now apparently allowed to confirm that Wyndham is taking control of 16 resorts and the rental arm of Shell.  Apparently they wanted it for the management contracts and the rental arm.  I wonder if Shell properties are going to start showing up in Extra Holidays.

http://www.extraholidays.com/member...=website_listing&utm_campaign=member_benefits

Extra Holidays is part of Wyndham Vacation Ownership.

http://www.shellvacationsclub.com/club/membernews.jsp

Shell Vacation Club is also now part of Wyndham Vacation Ownership with what appears to be a pledge to expand the members vacation opportunities.

It will be interesting to see what the expansion of the opportunites will be.


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## Picker57

lcml11 said:


> Other than resorts are now apparently allowed to confirm that Wyndham is taking control of 16 resorts and the rental arm of Shell.  Apparently they wanted it for the management contracts and the rental arm.  I wonder if Shell properties are going to start showing up in Extra Holidays.
> 
> http://www.extraholidays.com/member...=website_listing&utm_campaign=member_benefits
> 
> Extra Holidays is part of Wyndham Vacation Ownership.
> 
> http://www.shellvacationsclub.com/club/membernews.jsp
> 
> Shell Vacation Club is also now part of Wyndham Vacation Ownership with what appears to be a pledge to expand the members vacation opportunities.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what the expansion of the opportunites will be.



Indeed!  And was this referring to expanding the Shell members' opportunities or Wyndham's? If the latter, will this make it harder for SVC members to reserve spots?  And should I be concerned about the management part? We recently saw a Wyndham property (Pahio/Shearwater) that appeared to have very dicey maintenance ....but maybe we caught it on a bad day (?). 

   ----------Zach


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## lcml11

Picker57 said:


> Indeed!  And was this referring to expanding the Shell members' opportunities or Wyndham's? If the latter, will this make it harder for SVC members to reserve spots?  And should I be concerned about the management part? We recently saw a Wyndham property (Pahio/Shearwater) that appeared to have very dicey maintenance ....but maybe we caught it on a bad day (?).
> 
> ----------Zach



The press release cited was from the Shell Vacation Club Website and referring to changes coming for the Shell members.  

The related Wyndham press release from Wyndham talked in terms of being an acquission under the assest light acquission program.  It did not address very much or at all if availability was going to start showing up for the Club Wyndham Plus/Access and Worldmark the Club programs.

The only thing the Wyndham person indicated related to the issue of access for the Club Wyndham Plus/Access programs was to observe that Wyndham would be taking back Shell Club members interest through the re-possession processes.  He did not actually say where the timeshare interests on the Shell Vacation Club members unit would go.

On the maintance contract issue, I do not have any experience with the Shell Management sytem.  So I cannot really effectively talk to it other to observe, from what I have seen, Wyndham's overall maintance for properties is very good.

In the way of the world, there does not appear to be many Shell Vacation Club timeshares on E-Bay, but, the pictures from the outside look good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7500-SHELL-...90766859853?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2c6a97464d


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## Cheryl20772

ronparise said:


> I read that and see "no changes" except that now Wyndham will manage the system instead of Shell


I was told by a Wyndham rep today that we will see some Shell resports in the Wyndham Member's Directory for 2013.  The relationship will be similar to the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark.  If Shell owners want to book into Wyndham, they will have to do it by exchanging.  This person telling me this did not have any further details to share, but it does sound credible.  Does anyone know when we can expect the 2013 Member's Directory to come out?  I think that will help clear up the Wyndham owners' side understanding of the relationship.  The complexities of sorting out the actual relationship is part of what's keeping it from being a straight announcement of how it will be.


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## Picker57

Cheryl20772 said:


> I was told by a Wyndham rep today that we will see some Shell resports in the Wyndham Member's Directory for 2013.  The relationship will be similar to the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark.  If Shell owners want to book into Wyndham, they will have to do it by exchanging.



So Wyndham folks are "members" and Shell folks are "exchangers".  As an SVC member, I'm still looking for the good news. 
          --------------ZK


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## bnoble

Well, for starters, it came from a sales rep, so it is probably wrong.

But, even if it is right, it will be next to meaningless---each system would have access to at most a handful of units in the other, next to no inventory.  Just enough to list it in each system's directory and make the portfolio of resorts look much bigger than it is.


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## timeos2

Picker57 said:


> Indeed!  And was this referring to expanding the Shell members' opportunities or Wyndham's? If the latter, will this make it harder for SVC members to reserve spots?  And should I be concerned about the management part? We recently saw a Wyndham property (Pahio/Shearwater) that appeared to have very dicey maintenance ....but maybe we caught it on a bad day (?).
> 
> ----------Zach



Speaking in broad terms that will not apply to every case we noticed a disturbing trend in Wyndham general maintenance/housekeeping at the unit level has been in decline for a number of years. It seems extremely lackadaisical and hit and miss at best. Even when called on it and asked to specifically return and address shortcomings the end result we saw wasn't up to even the most basic standards of completeness that would be expected. And forget any extras or "spit & polish" - you're lucky if the refrigerator case got a cursory wipe - no way did the interior get a careful cleaning. Dirt under dressers/beds/sofas/chairs, dust on pictures, table tops, lack of overall feel of completeness is rampant it seems. 

The cleaning staff appears to be trying to make or break strict timelines to get in & out of units rather than any type of rigorous cleaning goals.  We long ago gave up expecting a sparkling clean Wyndham unit at arrival and, even after a special request, have learned to double check everything and watch carefully for ants, etc in Wyndham units.  Too bad as the units themselves tend to be, in most cases, quite well designed & equipped. But not particularly well maintained or cleaned. So it goes.


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## lcml11

Cheryl20772 said:


> I was told by a Wyndham rep today that we will see some Shell resports in the Wyndham Member's Directory for 2013.  The relationship will be similar to the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark.  If Shell owners want to book into Wyndham, they will have to do it by exchanging.  This person telling me this did not have any further details to share, but it does sound credible.  Does anyone know when we can expect the 2013 Member's Directory to come out?  I think that will help clear up the Wyndham owners' side understanding of the relationship.  The complexities of sorting out the actual relationship is part of what's keeping it from being a straight announcement of how it will be.



Reservations is confirming that some Shell resorts will start having availablity in 2013.  The 2013 resort directory should be coming out shortly.  If anyone out there owns Shell, maybe they could call their reservation system and ask if there is any Wyndham inventory that will be showing up in 2013 and let us know the answer.


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## Picker57

timeos2 said:


> Speaking in broad terms that will not apply to every case we noticed a disturbing trend in Wyndham general maintenance/housekeeping at the unit level has been in decline for a number of years. It seems extremely lackadaisical and hit and miss at best. Even when called on it and asked to specifically return and address shortcomings the end result we saw wasn't up to even the most basic standards of completeness that would be expected. And forget any extras or "spit & polish" - you're lucky if the refrigerator case got a cursory wipe - no way did the interior get a careful cleaning. Dirt under dressers/beds/sofas/chairs, dust on pictures, table tops, lack of overall feel of completeness is rampant it seems.
> 
> The cleaning staff appears to be trying to make or break strict timelines to get in & out of units rather than any type of rigorous cleaning goals.  We long ago gave up expecting a sparkling clean Wyndham unit at arrival and, even after a special request, have learned to double check everything and watch carefully for ants, etc in Wyndham units.  Too bad as the units themselves tend to be, in most cases, quite well designed & equipped. But not particularly well maintained or cleaned. So it goes.



Thanks John - That's pretty consistent with our (rather limited) observation. Glad to know we weren't hallucinating. It bothers me that "management" (which does include maintenance and cleaning) will be taken over by Wyndham. And, granted, we've been spoiled with the Shell units which, in our experience, have ALWAYS been spit/polish clean.  We're crossing our fingers that that won't change. This'll help with some travel decisions for next season. 

              ----------Zach


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## Dedibble

ronparise said:


> Ive just read a bunch if info on the Shell site as well as ainfo thread here on TUG,,I cant imagine how they will be integrated at our level....I think its going to be a third system
> 
> perhaps the unsold units will be put into Worldmark or Wyndham and the owners of fixed weeks in the shell system may have an option to convert to Shell or Wyndham , or not at all. but I doubt that they will convert all those already issued shell points to Wyndham points..I just dont see it happening



Yep, my greatest concern is that Wyndham will invite us to meetings to tell us about how wonderful it will be now for us as they have added more resorts to the system........then tell us we need to upgrade our portfolio to one of their new systems in order to have access.  They never ever stop squeezing owners for more.  I hope I am wrong


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## Dedibble

DeniseM said:


> But, note that I said we couldn't join Wyndham unless we purchased a 2nd week from Wyndham at full sticker.  We didn't join.



Yes, that's how Wyndham rolls:  blood suckers!  They are going to play both ends on this one.  Shell owners will be extorted as well as Wyndham owners.  It's disgusting.  It's never really about improving the quality for owners.  If they were in touch at all with the "real world" they would take care of their existing owners.  You know; that attraction thing.  If I went home and talked about an awesome experience with Wyndham people would want to get in the game but most people say no way! Besides the point that there is nothing that motivates me to give them leads to prospective buyers anyway.  When they lay out that 81/2 x 11 sheet and ask for referrals I Am like: "you are kidding me!!!  You want me to help you get more people on board so that I, (a current owner that has already paid in the thousands of dollars)have even a harder time booking in oversold properties."  It's soooo frustrating.


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## Dedibble

Picker57 said:


> Thanks John - That's pretty consistent with our (rather limited) observation. Glad to know we weren't hallucinating. It bothers me that "management" (which does include maintenance and cleaning) will be taken over by Wyndham. And, granted, we've been spoiled with the Shell units which, in our experience, have ALWAYS been spit/polish clean.  We're crossing our fingers that that won't change. This'll help with some travel decisions for next season.
> 
> ----------Zach



Not surprising at all:  typical big business:  cut cleaning staff so the people on the top can give themselves raises!  You know the millions they already make on the backs of the hard working owners paying monthly fees is not enough for those greedy b...s...ds!!!!!  That is why the floors are sticky and the carpets stink when you check in


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## lcml11

*Wyndham has spoken*



Dedibble said:


> Yep, my greatest concern is that Wyndham will invite us to meetings to tell us about how wonderful it will be now for us as they have added more resorts to the system........then tell us we need to upgrade our portfolio to one of their new systems in order to have access.  They never ever stop squeezing owners for more.  I hope I am wrong



http://wyndham.jobs/las-vegas-nv/ow...-club-west-charleston-las-vegas/33078849/job/

"Wyndham Worldwide 
Owner Upgrades Telesales Rep (Shell Vacations Club) - West Charleston - Las Vegas in Las Vegas Nevada United States 
Title: Owner Upgrades Telesales Rep (Shell Vacations Club) - West Charleston - Las Vegas
Location: United States of America-Nevada-Las Vegas
Requisition ID: 1209097
Description:

We are excited about the addition of Shell Vacations Club to the Wyndham family and are launching a new sales line to celebrate!

Wyndham Vacation Ownership is the World''s largest Vacation Ownership Company with an impressive list of world-renowned destinations. We''ve grown and excelled by remaining true to our corporate values of integrity, accountability and exceptional customer service. It is the strong values and our "Count On Me" service promise of being respectful, being responsive and delivering great experiences exhibited by our team that continues to set us apart from the rest!

As an upgrades sales rep you will work directly with the Shell Vacations Club Owners via the telephone and Internet to upgrade their current level of ownership by selling them additional points, which will enable them to further enhance their future vacations! All while having fun in a upbeat, lively and professional environment."

Anybody received one of the phone calls yet?


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## lcml11

Dedibble said:


> Not surprising at all:  typical big business:  cut cleaning staff so the people on the top can give themselves raises!  You know the millions they already make on the backs of the hard working owners paying monthly fees is not enough for those greedy b...s...ds!!!!!  That is why the floors are sticky and the carpets stink when you check in



In my experience, this does not apply to Wyndham.  I have not visted a Shell resort at this point so I do not know about them.  If that is what Shell Vacation Club was doing, the users of Shell Vacation Club may very well be the big winner with the Wyndham Management Group taking over some of their resorts.


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## Dedibble

am1 said:


> It will be hard to have it both ways.  Unless you make a developer purchase.



Exactly, that is the whole point as to why Wyndham made this move.  Its just another avenue to sell sell sell!   my guess is that when we talk to one of the over excited sales rep with Wyndham, they will spout of all the blessings to come to those who sign the dotted line.....I am guessing signing said dotted line will cost about $28,000.00


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## vacationhopeful

Dedibble said:


> ... Besides the point that there is nothing that motivates me to give them leads to prospective buyers anyway.  When they lay out that 81/2 x 11 sheet and ask for referrals ...



I put down the the names, addresses and phone numbers of people who OWE me money.  Or ex-boyfriends. Or the neighborhood jerks. Or dorks at work. 

That is so birds of a feather can flock together.


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## philemer

am1 said:


> Regardless of hers or your situation it can be worth it.  Depends on what one has and wants.



I've heard that line from a timeshare salesman. Hmmmm.

Any updates from Wyndham?


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## simpsontruckdriver

I actually went on a job interview with Wyndham. You know the calls, where they call you and offer you a mini-vacation for $250 or more, anywhere in the USA, and bring a friend! Personally, I could not do it, because I don't want to feel like I am "feeding lambs to wolves" (aka sales people).

But, VacationHopeful has the right idea. Refer those who are not on your preferred list of friends. You never know, they may accept it, not knowing what we know, and we make $$$!

TS


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## Picker57

lcml11 said:


> In my experience, this does not apply to Wyndham.  I have not visted a Shell resort at this point so I do not know about them.  If that is what Shell Vacation Club was doing, the users of Shell Vacation Club may very well be the big winner with the Wyndham Management Group taking over some of their resorts.



We've been Shell owners for 6-7 years and have never found one of their properties lacking in cleanliness or maintenance. My worry with this Wyndham thing runs the other way; I HAVE seen some pretty seedy Wyndham properties. 

       -------------Zach


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## Beefnot

deleted....


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