# [ 2012 ] How much are you paying a Night?



## Ridewithme38 (Mar 5, 2012)

So i was playing around with math a couple of days ago and figured my costs for vacations this year was around $2,094 for 24 nights...or about *$87.25 a night*

RCI 1yr = $89
2br Massanutten = $375 (7 nights)
2br Hershey = $566 (3 nights)
1br Patriots place = $465 (7 nights)(May deposit with RCI or Rent)
3br Governors Green = $599($189+$410)(7 Nights)

How much are you paying a Night this year for Vacationing?


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## massvacationer (Mar 5, 2012)

are you including RCI trade fees?


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 5, 2012)

massvacationer said:


> are you including RCI trade fees?



I included the one year of membership i used to book these and the one exchange fee i used for the Governors Green weeks

I'm not sure if i should include the MF i paid this year on an Every Odd year ownership, when i won't be staying till next year...or deduct the 2 TPU left over in my RCI Account after the Governors Green Exchange


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## Talent312 (Mar 5, 2012)

This may sound heretical, but I do not consider low cost or competitive expense to be a priority for  timesharing. Rather, its a lifestyle choice, one which works for some vacations and not so much for others. I'd rather focus more on whether it provided what I needed for what I was trying to do. But as always, whatever floats your boat.


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## bobpark56 (Mar 5, 2012)

*Opportunity Costs*

You seem to have forgotten opportunity costs...the $ you could have been earning from investing (instead) the $ you spent on purchasing your vacation ownerships.


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## vckempson (Mar 5, 2012)

My overall cost for 6 weeks is about $70 a night.  There's really 2 parts, though.  I have the RCI exchange part which runs me about $60 a night for 3 or 4 weeks.  Then I have the Wyndham part which runs about $80 a night for another 3 weeks a year.  

I agree that I now worry most about getting the places I want, not the costs.  With TPU's we all control our own destiny on how many we burn per exchange.  My exchanges are typically 25 to 30 TPU's.  Same concept with Wyndham points; how many points you use depends on when and where you travel and I use that to get what I want when I want it.  My MF cost per point under both system is pretty cheap.

I got everything essentially for free so there's no opportunity cost to figure in.


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## massvacationer (Mar 5, 2012)

about $95 per night (last year - 2011)

22 nights (7 of which were a RCI trade an the rest were via Wyndham Points) with a total cost of $2100 including maintenance and RCI trade fees.  I also don't have material opportunity costs as I paid little for my timeshares.

I'm happy as these were stays in nice two and three bedroom units.


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## massvacationer (Mar 5, 2012)

deleted      - duplicate post


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## Beefnot (Mar 5, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> This may sound heretical, but I do not consider low cost or competitive expense to be a priority for  timesharing. Rather, its a lifestyle choice, one which works for some vacations and not so much for others. I'd rather focus more on whether it provided what I needed for what I was trying to do. But as always, whatever floats your boat.



So I guess that means math is not your strong suit or your per night costs are sky high...


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 5, 2012)

Cost is the most important thing to me...my daughter is 6, so if i NEEDED to i could stuff us in a motel 6 room or two (if her mom comes)for a vacation...so i need to defend the large TS costs as compared to those of the 'average hotel room'...as my daughter gets older it will be VERY VERY important she has her own 'space' on vacations, so i'll stop worrying about cost then

I know i'll never get down to the $29.99 rates i've seen randomly listed online......Sure a TS offers more then a Hotel room, the cost savings on breakfast and lunch(I still like to eat dinner out) are something that needs to be considered Also...but if i can get close to that number...i'll feel like this investment was worth it...the Closer to $50-$75 a day i can get the happier i'll be in the short term


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## Beefnot (Mar 5, 2012)

Since I am with II, I will be at about $71 per night using the XYZ 2-for1 benefit. I am also in the process of closing on two more timeshares which, if i XYZed both of those, would take my cost per night down to about $51 per night. Actually, since the MFs are alread paid for the next three years, my physical out of pocket for the next three years would work out to be around $41 per night. Not too shabby. Unfortunately I won't be able to take all that vacation, so I will be either accumulating banked weeks or giving away weeks to friends and family at exchange cost.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 5, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Unfortunately I won't be able to take all that vacation, so I will be either accumulating banked weeks or giving away weeks to friends and family at exchange cost.



You know, i've always considered you a great Friend, almost family...Right?


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## hypnotiq (Mar 5, 2012)

Ride...has...no...shame.


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## Beefnot (Mar 5, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> You know, i've always considered you a great Friend, almost family...Right?



Funny, I was going to say the same thing, my brother from another mother.  You lowballer...


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## Talent312 (Mar 6, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> So I guess that means math is not your strong suit or your per night costs are sky high...



My per night costs are approx. $92.4237, with no conscious thought to it.
My TS's & where I go is often more a product of circumstance than a plan.
I could almost as easily end up in a $400/N Irish castle, as a $75/N motel.

I respect those who try to control costs for their progeny.
But as for me, the motto is: "You can't take it with you."


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> My per night costs are approx. $92.4237, with no conscious thought to it.
> My TS's & where I go is often more a product of circumstance than a plan.
> I could almost as easily end up in a $400/N Irish castle, as a $75/N motel.
> 
> ...



That's pretty decent, I was wrong on both counts. Nice touch with the calculation to the millionths of a dollar.


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## DaveNV (Mar 6, 2012)

Are you guys adding in transportation costs to get to those timeshare nights?  You're staying in that location because of your timeshare ownership or exchange.  So if a plane flight is required, as in the case of two of my timeshares, the cost per night is a lot higher than hopping in the car and driving a bit.  It seems to me that the dollar cost for the night itself is only part of the $tory.   

Dave


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

BMWguynw said:


> Are you guys adding in transportation costs to get to those timeshare nights?  You're staying in that location because of your timeshare ownership or exchange.  So if a plane flight is required, as in the case of two of my timeshares, the cost per night is a lot higher than hopping in the car and driving a bit.  It seems to me that the dollar cost for the night itself is only part of the $tory.
> 
> Dave



Eh, kinda. I consider transportation costs the costs of doing business.  If I want to go to Hawaii, whether I rent or exchange or sleep in the rental car, I am paying for the flight. So I would exclude that from my calculation.


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## vckempson (Mar 6, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Cost is the most important thing to me...my daughter is 6, so if i NEEDED to i could stuff us in a motel 6 room or two (if her mom comes)for a vacation...so i need to defend the large TS costs as compared to those of the 'average hotel room'...as my daughter gets older it will be VERY VERY important she has her own 'space' on vacations, so i'll stop worrying about cost then
> 
> I know i'll never get down to the $29.99 rates i've seen randomly listed online......Sure a TS offers more then a Hotel room, the cost savings on breakfast and lunch(I still like to eat dinner out) are something that needs to be considered Also...but if i can get close to that number...i'll feel like this investment was worth it...the Closer to $50-$75 a day i can get the happier i'll be in the short term



The key to that, at least with RCI weeks exchanges is to only use around 10 TPU's for your exchanges or take advantage of last minute calls.  That should get you pretty close to $50 a day.  That's the great thing about the TPU systems, you pretty much control your own destiny.  Now the less flexible you get with when you go and what you get... well, your costs are going to start to rise.  The higher demand times, though, will also raise your motel 6 specials that you are comparing to, as well.

You also don't have to just look at your average costs.  At a motel, you'll somtimes get a special rate, sometimes not.  One trip you'll pay $50 a night, and another will be $80 a night.   Same with your TS.  Sometimes you'll spend $30 a night with a last call and sometimes you'll spend $100 a night for the right place at the right time.  Enjoy the good deal for the deal it is and enjoy the perfect spot for being a great place at the right time.


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## bogey21 (Mar 6, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> This may sound heretical, but I do not consider low cost or competitive expense to be a priority for  timesharing. Rather, its a lifestyle choice......



Back when I was flying high I pretty much felt this way.  Then things changed in my life and cost became important to me.  When this happened I dumped my 4 Marriott weeks for about $85,000 and used something like $6,000 of this to buy 6 independents in places I liked to vist.  When my situation changed again I was able to deed 4 of the weeks back to their HOAs and gave another away to a fellow Tugger.  I still have a low MF ski week in Colorado that my Son and his friends use.  IMO the lesson to be taken from this is that continuing management of one's TS portfolio is way better than inattention. 

George


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## PigsDad (Mar 6, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> So I guess that means *math is not your strong suit *or your per night costs are sky high...





Talent312 said:


> My per night costs are approx. $92.4237





Beefnot said:


> That's pretty decent, I was wrong on both counts. Nice touch with the calculation to the millionths of a dollar.


Talent just calculated it to the ten thousandth of a dollar, not the millionths.  Perhaps math is not _*your*_ strong suit. 

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## siesta (Mar 6, 2012)

We dont always stay in TS, but the cost of TS stays the past 12 mos. for me comes out to $110.78 a night for 21 nights of vacation. All were RCI/II exchanges. My wyndham points cost is $5.33 per 1000 and small side 1br SDO was $529.91

RCI- 7 night stays

Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach 2br Presidential in March '11 - $1330.65 (two generic wyn deposits 70k and 105k and two exchange fees, but the resort combined our two 1 br units to a 2br pres)

II- 7 night stays

Westin Lagunamar Studio May '11- $174 (courtesy of xyz)

Harborside Atlantis 2br Oct '11 - $648.91 ( MF 529.91 + exchange fee of $119 after starwood to starwood and online discount)

Plus annual membership of $89 to RCI and $84 to II

***Now the truth is, the wyndham generic points I deposited came free with the TS purchase, so it really only cost me the exchange fee of $398. So my real cost for 21 nights came out to *$43.99 per night*.

I could get used to this timeshare thing ....


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> Talent just calculated it to the ten thousandth of a dollar, not the millionths.  Perhaps math is not _*your*_ strong suit.
> 
> :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:



Uh, oh wow I'm an idiot.  Guilty as charged.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 6, 2012)

Because we didn't do much with our TS ownership in terms of stays, in 2011, I figured ours out going back for the past 4 years (2008-2011).

Over that period of time, we stayed 54 nights for $5084 including RCI exchange fees (5x) and 4 yrs of RCI membership.  This worked out to *$94.15 average per night.*

Perhaps our greatest value use of our TS ownership, however, was the 2 wk barter I did . . . our Lifetime in Hawaii (2010 + 2011) which cost $775 in MFs for those two years . . . for 15 days in a 2006 29' Winnebago in Alaska in 2010!  As a rental, that RV would have easily cost us upwards of $2,000-$2,500.  On a per day basis, that is $51.67/night.


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 6, 2012)

*One More Thought/Calculation*

Lifetime in Hawaii should be in EVERYone's TS portfolio.

I booked our 2012 floating week (July 4th) back about 16 mos ago so that we could use it for our upcoming Ireland holiday.  With a MF of $397 and a TPU deposit equally 43, that works out to $9.23/TPU.

We were able to pick up a 2BR cottage for 32 TPU which makes the price $295+$159 exchange fee.  Our per night rate calculates out to $64.86.

And we still have "change" of 11 TPU (at a MF cost of roughly $100) for another RCI exchange.


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## FractionalTraveler (Mar 6, 2012)

I really like this thread!  It poses a great question regarding the relative efficiency of getting the most from vacations.

Since I consider vacation costs as the use of disposable income for an investment in my family, it is well worth it to maximize your return.

If you can squeeze 24 days of vacation from a $2K investment, then that definitely sounds attractive.

The bottom line is that people only budget for vactions a limited amount of cash each year based upon their individual circumastances.  It definitely pays to maximize.

I do think that a better metric than costs/day is "The total available time per year you actually have to vacation".  Then maximizing the cost/day is even sweeter.


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

I get four weeks of vacation per year, but will not use it all TSing.  Need to find a week to visit my parents.  The remaining 3 wks could be used toward TSing.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 6, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I get four weeks of vacation per year, but will not use it all TSing.  Need to find a week to visit my parents.  The remaining 3 wks could be used toward TSing.



I also get 20 days...Luckily i've been able to squeeze a couple vacations around holidays this year...For instance by Feb. trip to Massanutten only used *4* work days because we had a day off for presidents day, my may trip to Hershey will only require me taking a *half day* off of work because of the days we have off, my July trip to Patriots place(if i go) will only be *4* days since we have the 4th off, my August Trip to Governors Green will only take *4 1/2* days because of Labor Day

So out of 24 days on vacation, i will only be using 13 days actual vacation time...it leaves 7 more days to screw around

Although we did get a memo about 'choosing one holiday'...i think i can get away with it since the memo doesn't mention Presidents day, or Labor Day


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2012)

*Hyatt*  Combination of studio, 1 and 2BR units
Excluding initial purchase: $54/night
Including initial purchase amortized over 10 years, assuming resale value of zero:  $87/night, based on a realistic 30 nights use/yr
Including initial purchase amortized over 10 years, assuming 30% resale value: $77/night, based on a realistic 30 nights use/yr

*Disney*  Studios only
Including initial purchase amortized over 15 years, with resale value of zero: $11/pt for first 15 years, or about $100-$250/studio night
Initial purchase amortized over 15 years, assuming more realistic 50% resale value: $8/pt, or $75-$200/studio night

*Starwood*  One or 2BR units
Unit was free, cost per night $114 without XYZ, about $70/night if XYZs can be fully utilized

H


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

heathpack said:


> *Hyatt*  Combination of studio, 1 and 2BR units
> Excluding initial purchase: $54/night
> Including initial purchase amortized over 10 years, assuming resale value of zero:  $87/night, based on a realistic 30 nights use/yr
> Including initial purchase amortized over 10 years, assuming 30% resale value: $77/night, based on a realistic 30 nights use/yr
> ...



Just hope those Hyatt MFs don't start skyrocketing...


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## hypnotiq (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a hard time using all my vacation every year (8 weeks), so having more TS time then vacation time is not a problem...yet.


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Just hope those Hyatt MFs don't start skyrocketing...



All calculations have been based on an expected 3.5% annual increase in MF.

The Hyatt resort I own is known for a very well-run HOA.  It is no longer in active sales and MF are reasonable (under $1000/year).

I worry much more about skyrocketing MF with Starwood than Hyatt or Disney.

However, the factors one cannot control (MF, quality of resort upkeep, future resale value) are the price one pays for inexpensive timeshare usage now.  Timesharing is definitely not for the risk-averse.

H


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2012)

My all time low for an exchange is $38.90 per night for a RCI Points Lite exchange to Las Vegas.

That includes my MF, 1 yr. RCI membership, and the exchange fee.

Our 2 weeks in Hawaii, ocean front, at our home resort, averages to $156 a night, but it is worth every penny!


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## Beefnot (Mar 6, 2012)

heathpack said:


> All calculations have been based on an expected 3.5% annual increase in MF.
> 
> The Hyatt resort I own is known for a very well-run HOA.  It is no longer in active sales and MF are reasonable (under $1000/year).
> 
> ...



True that.  Ask those Point at Poipu owners.


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## kkan (Mar 6, 2012)

Wow.  People are posting impressive numbers.

Recently, I did a cost calculation of all the weeks that I used, exchanged, got as bonus weeks, or obtained by renting (only from the actual TS owner).  The total was close to 100 weeks.  I included opportunity cost, writing off the purchase price to $0, MFs, exchange fees, RCI & II membership costs, and any other taxes/fees paid directly to the resorts.  I bought resale a while back ago when you actually had to pay to own a timeshare (big discount over developer pricing).  With everything included, my average cost per night was around $140/nt.

Almost all the units were nice 2br during peak or red season.  I rarely traveled during the off-season.  I was hard pressed to rent for my average cost per night - paying up to 30% more than my average cost/night.  I still thought I was doing well since the typical branded rental sites were asking for 2-3 times my average nightly cost.

My average MF per week is about $550.  For exchanges, the exchange fee and partial allocation of the annual membership fee already increases the nightly cost close to $110/night.  Even for the few off-season exchanges, I had to give up a good week since I would ask for the best resort in the area.

My estimate is that no matter how long I average the costs over, my nightly cost will never fall below $125/nt.

I am willing to bet that most TS owners that purchased from the developer or have $1000+ MF have a nightly cost of $300/night or more if they calculate correctly.


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## heathpack (Mar 7, 2012)

My calculations include purchase price, exchange company memberships, exchange fees, every misc fee associated with making and managing reservations.  I run numbers typically assuming zero resale value, even though for the Hyatt and Disney that is unnecessarily pessimistic. I also only include the actual number of nights we stay in the timeshare- sometimes we book a full week but only stay 3 nights. The only thing that you included that I do not is opportunity cost.  The main reason I do not include opportunity cost is that the timeshare purchases came out of the vacation budget and would have been spent within 5-6 years anyway.  It would have been cash sitting in a bank account earning 2% interest these days at best.  The opportunity cost is actually not a tremendous amount in our scenario.

I don't think that there is really a "correct" way to run these numbers.  There are simply too many unknown variables.  There is also the real consideration as to how you'd be traveling if you didn't have the TS.  Would you be traveling to Hawaii and staying at $300/night hotels?  Or would you be camping at the state park 3 hours from home?  Everyone should run their numbers honestly for their own sake, but not necessarily in a manner that someone else thinks is "correct."

H



kkan said:


> Wow.  People are posting impressive numbers.
> 
> Recently, I did a cost calculation of all the weeks that I used, exchanged, got as bonus weeks, or obtained by renting (only from the actual TS owner).  The total was close to 100 weeks.  I included opportunity cost, writing off the purchase price to $0, MFs, exchange fees, RCI & II membership costs, and any other taxes/fees paid directly to the resorts.  I bought resale a while back ago when you actually had to pay to own a timeshare (big discount over developer pricing).  With everything included, my average cost per night was around $140/nt.
> 
> ...


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## Timeshare Von (Mar 7, 2012)

Interesting continued discussion on the calculation and where we might be staying otherwise.

I know for us, if it weren't for TS ownership, I doubt we would have ever felt we could afford Hawaii vacations.  Ironically, in the past (pre-RCI Lite) some of the best exchanges we made were using the 1BR side of the Kingsgate lockoff into 2BR units at some nice places on the Big Island . . . several of them in fact.  Those exchanges actually work out to around $65-70/night because of the low MF share for the 1BR side.


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## Doogie (Mar 7, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Since I am with II, I will be at about $71 per night using the XYZ 2-for1 benefit. I am also in the process of closing on two more timeshares which, if i XYZed both of those, would take my cost per night down to about $51 per night. Actually, since the MFs are alread paid for the next three years, my physical out of pocket for the next three years would work out to be around $41 per night. Not too shabby. Unfortunately I won't be able to take all that vacation, so I will be either accumulating banked weeks or giving away weeks to friends and family at exchange cost.



I am with Interval and am not familar with the XYZ 2 for 1 benefit you are mentioning.  I have searched their website and can't seem to find out anything about it.  Can you explain what this is for me?

Thanks


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## antjmar (Mar 7, 2012)

bobpark56 said:


> You seem to have forgotten opportunity costs...the $ you could have been earning from investing (instead) the $ you spent on purchasing your vacation ownerships.



I think he got his TS for free or almost free!


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 7, 2012)

antjmar said:


> I think he got his TS for free or almost free!



My Wyndham Week i got for $1, seller paid closing and all fees & it included that years stay free....My Sheraton i paid closing and all fees, but it was completely free other then that


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## chriskre (Mar 7, 2012)

I figure about $81 when all is said and done for roughly 9-12 weeks of vacation a year.  That's including all MF's. reservation fees, club fees and exchange company memberships and fees.  I mostly stay in 2 bedrooms so I consider that a great value for my "investment".  

Some weeks are more and some less but the average is about $80 a night.  I own from DVC/HGVC level down to my old coverted motel at the beach so there is room to tweak my portfolio up or down depending on my future ecomomic scenario.  Hopefully my fun will continue.


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## hypnotiq (Mar 7, 2012)

Jesus 9-12 weeks? I thought I had it good with 8. What the hell do you do?


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2012)

Doogie said:


> I am with Interval and am not familar with the XYZ 2 for 1 benefit you are mentioning.  I have searched their website and can't seem to find out anything about it.  Can you explain what this is for me?
> 
> Thanks



It's not on the II website - put this in your google search box and search TUG for it - there is a ton of info. -  *"xyz"site:tugbbs.com*


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## Beefnot (Mar 7, 2012)

Doogie said:


> I am with Interval and am not familar with the XYZ 2 for 1 benefit you are mentioning.  I have searched their website and can't seem to find out anything about it.  Can you explain what this is for me?
> 
> Thanks



It is not advertised at all publicly.  The following links should help you understand the basics of how it works.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=Lovin

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152788


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## MichaelColey (Mar 7, 2012)

Our timeshare stays have range from about $30 per night to $150 per night, with an average of about $70.  That includes upfront costs amortized over 5-10 years, maintenance fees, housekeeping fees, annoyance fees (DVC), annual dues, exchange fees, combine fees, etc.  Considering our mix of stays includes a LOT of DVC and Hawaii, I'm VERY satisfied.


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## K2Quick (Mar 7, 2012)

Mine for 2011 (I haven't finalized 2012 plans yet):

Timeshare stays:
7 nights Four Seasons Aviara 2 BR
5 nights Worldmark West Yellowstone 1 BR
7 nights Westin Ka'anapali 2 BR

Costs:
Starwood Maintenance Fee $908
Worldmark Credit Costs $366
II Membership Fee $45
II Exchange Fees $253
TOT Taxes $87
Opp. Cost on Invested Value $71
Total Cost $1,730  ($91/night)

Hotel Stays (incl. taxes, fees):
2 nights Westin Westminster Priceline $133
1 night Renaissance Las Vegas Priceline $63
1 night Courtyard Flagstaff Priceline $65
1 night Courtyard Page Free (points)
2 nights Sheraton Waikiki (cash+points) $247
Total Cost $508 ($73/night)

Blended Total (Timeshares and Hotels) = $2,238 ($86/night)


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## Beefnot (Mar 7, 2012)

K2Quick said:


> Mine for 2011 (I haven't finalized 2012 plans yet):
> 
> Timeshare stays:
> 7 nights Four Seasons Aviara 2 BR
> ...



So you locked off your Starwood TS and got a 2BR Aviara and 2BR Ka'anapali?  Wow, did you pull that off during flexchange?


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> So you locked off your Starwood TS and got a 2BR Aviara and 2BR Ka'anapali?  Wow, did you pull that off during flexchange?



With Starwood to Starwood trades there is a 30 day priority period, so you often don't have to wait until flex-change to trade up.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 7, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> With Starwood to Starwood trades there is a 30 day priority period, so you often don't have to wait until flex-change to trade up.



 Thats the kinds of trades i could get if i deposited my SBP?


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## Ken555 (Mar 7, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Thats the kinds of trades i could get if i deposited my SBP?



You should be able to get WKORV, WKORVN, or WPV somewhat easily. Aviara is a hard to get property at anytime of year (note it's not SVN, but Four Seasons).


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Thats the kinds of trades i could get if i deposited my SBP?



Starwood resorts ->  http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/starwood_vacation_ownership_resorts.html

You should be able to trade into all the Starwood properties, except for Harborside, Westin St. John, and holiday weeks.

Harborside and WSJ are more difficult, but doable if you put in an on-going request for the whole year.

You don't have any priority outside Starwood.


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## K2Quick (Mar 7, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> So you locked off your Starwood TS and got a 2BR Aviara and 2BR Ka'anapali?  Wow, did you pull that off during flexchange?



As Denise pointed out, Starwood preference works wonders on getting into some very nice Starwood units (as long as you are willing to travel off-season).  With Four Seasons, they do one or two mini bulk-bankings each year.  That's where the sightings board here comes in very handy.  You have to be willing to pull the trigger the minute you see something that might work out, because those go fast.


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## Ken555 (Mar 7, 2012)

Interesting thread, and good for perspective review of expectations  using timeshares and timeshare membership options. I've included my  experience over the last six years of SVN, II trades and II Getaways.  Hope it's helpful to the rest of you.

Starwood

Since 2005 I've visited SVN properties a total of 114 nights at an  average nightly cost of $68.34. This does not include deed costs or  other incidentals (such as the Maui nightly tax), but does include MFs,  SVN membership fees, and property taxes. Even if I sold my Platinum SVN  week now I would likely recoup all but ~$6,000 of my initial cost, thus  increasing nightly rates by an additional $52.63 (not including lost opportunity costs, which I believe - as others do - is incidental). If true, then my  actual cost was $120.94 per night for the 114 nights, which is the  "right" price for me. 

This includes 34 nights in Maui, 23 nights at Harborside, 17 nights at  Kierland, 13 nights in Cancun, 13 nights at Desert Willow, 7 nights in Priceville  and 7 nights at Mission Hills.


II Trades

Since 2005 I've reserved 154 nights via II at an average nightly cost of  $90.34. This also does not include deed costs but does include MFs, II  exchange fees and property taxes. (Note I haven't included II membership,  and should add this to my spreadsheet, though it's an incidental cost).  Of my non-SVN club weeks my total cost was ~$4,000 plus the special  assessment for SVN which I don't believe I've included in my  calculations (anyone remember what the second year cost was for SVR  Falls?) but IIRC was about $600 per unit for the second year, totaling  ~$5,200 cost, adding $33.77 per night. If true, then my actual cost was  $124.11, which is good for me (note it's only slightly more expensive  than my SVN week). I think it's feasible to make as good exchanges as  I've done with less expensive weeks, as well.

This includes two weeks in a studio, three weeks in a 1-bed, four weeks  in a premium 1-bed, 10 weeks in a 2-bed, and two weeks in a 3-bed unit.  An additional week from 2011 is already paid for and deposited waiting  for trade (plus two weeks from 2013, not included here). Most of the  resorts traded to are in SVN and Marriott along with a a few others  (such as the 3-bed ski weeks at Grand Timber Lodge). For reference, the  "worst" timeshare was in January at The Villas at Polo Tower in Las  Vegas, but I had two XYZ weeks there with an average nightly cost of  just $24.14 per unit for that stay.


II Getaways

I've reserved nine weeks (63 nights) using II Getaways at an average  cost of $66.17 per night. This includes three weeks at Westin Mission  Hills, two weeks at Marriott Grand Chateau, and weeks at Marriott Desert  Springs II, Marriott Timber Lodge (ski week!), Four Seasons Scottsdale  (for only $227) and even Harborside at Atlantis. 

I paid for II's Platinum membership for this year and hope to use at  least one or two Getaways, for $50 discount each, plus a Platinum Escape  week (which are ridiculously inexpensive). However, since the average  cost per week has increased over the last six years, this isn't going to  reduce my average Getaway weekly cost in any significant manner.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 7, 2012)

I've kept track of our timeshare costs since we started timesharing and bought in 2007. I price it out per night based on if I were to stop timesharing today and give away the weeks for $0. I have broken it down where I even include the $15 membership for for TUG. If I didn't timeshare, I wouldn't probably be a member here.

Our total cost is $218.17 per night. We didn't pay $1 for our units and we bought the first at the peak of the market. So that is a huge hit on the per night cost.

$218 isn't cheap, though that is only over 5 years of use. So as the years go by, that number will go down. We won't be be paying exchange fees now that we enrolled in Marriott's DC program. Though we will still have the $165 annual fee that covers those.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 7, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I've kept track of our timeshare costs since we started timesharing and bought in 2007. I price it out per night based on if I were to stop timesharing today and give away the weeks for $0. I have broken it down where I even include the $15 membership for for TUG. If I didn't timeshare, I wouldn't probably be a member here.
> 
> Our total cost is $218.17 per night. We didn't pay $1 for our units and we bought the first at the peak of the market. So that is a huge hit on the per night cost.
> 
> $218 isn't cheap, though that is only over 5 years of use. So as the years go by, that number will go down. We won't be be paying exchange fees now that we enrolled in Marriott's DC program. Though we will still have the 4165 annual fee that covers those.



I would call a foul under what I understand the Accountant's rule number one.  That is past costs do not count on the future math.  Therefore, I think a more realistic formula would be $4165 divided by the number of days used.  I would also disallow the TUG fee.  If you redo the math, you may have a plesant surprise.

P.S.  Out of idol interest, do you know what that figure is?


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## dioxide45 (Mar 7, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I would call a foul under what I understand the Accountant's rule number one.  That is past costs do not count on the future math.  Therefore, I think a more realistic formula would be $4165 divided by the number of days used.  I would also disallow the TUG fee.  If you redo the math, you may have a plesant surprise.
> 
> P.S.  Out of idol interest, do you know what that figure is?



See my correction. I put in a 4 instead of a $.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 7, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> See my correction. I put in a 4 instead of a $.



Thanks for the correction.


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## bdmauk (Mar 7, 2012)

Good thread.  I just calculated our vacations.  Bought our first timeshare last July.  I used 2 year totals since we own a biennial.

RCI dues $140 ($70*2)   I bought the 5 year membership = $69.80/yr
TUG dues $30     (Tug annual dues are best $15 ever spent)
Purchase/closing = $265
Maint. Fee = $345 (Grandview 1br eoy)
-VV@P  $199 Extra vacation
-Woodstone $189 exchange fee
-Bonnet Creek $189 exchange fee
-10 TPUs remaining = 1 week - $189 exchange fee

Total (4 weeks/28 days) = $1,546 ($55.21/nt)    

Granted, not 5 star resorts but still a bargain.  Plus, we would not have taken this many family vacations otherwise.  That alone makes timesharing worth it.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 7, 2012)

bdmauk said:


> Plus, we would not have taken this many family vacations otherwise.  That alone makes timesharing worth it.



This is soo true, before timesharing i literally forgot to vacation, now that i'm prepaying it sort of forces me to...its been amazing, i remember 5 vacations from my youth, my parents are workaholics....in the last 2yrs i've vacationed more then i did in the last almost 30 years


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## andex (Mar 7, 2012)

I am a new owner since August 2011. Managed 3 weeks so far all prime weeks. 
Week 50 Orlando 1 bedroom, 
week 51 was on disney site paid full freight with all the frills,bells and whistles! ouch!!
week 52 Orlando 3 bedroom. 
2 bedrooms at ski resort during Carnival of Quebec week. 
Calculation including all points used and borrowed. Resort fees, and exchange company memberships and fees. 88$ per night! I recently booked a 1 bedroom for dec 2012 through RCI extra vacation 2 weeks in Florida for $658 all in!! If I throw this in it would lower it to about 71$per night. I bought resale no loss of opportunity. If anything I saved money compared to the regular Caribbean all inclusive vacations I was taking for a family of 4. 
So far it has proven to be an excellent investment, in our family. And I assume it will save us money every year or it will give us aaaloooootttt more vacation bang for are dollar!! 5 star decision.


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## andex (Mar 7, 2012)

week 51 was on Disney site and Is obviously not part of this calculation I wasn’t timesharing I was paying a lot of money for a basic hotel room!!


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## chriskre (Mar 7, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Jesus 9-12 weeks? I thought I had it good with 8. What the hell do you do?



I'm a nurse.  We have flexible scheduling where I can take two days off and get a full week off so it's just a matter of creative scheduling.   
Officially I only get 280 hours of paid time off so that equals about 7 weeks, but I'm good at stretching what they give me to about one vacation a month.  I gotta use all those TS weeks that I own.   

On the weeks when I can't get the full week off, I use my TS's as if I owned a vacation home.  I often book 5-6 weeks of beach vacations within driving distance so I can commute for the 1 or 2 days that I'd have to work during the week and the rest of the time I'm a beach bum.   

I work hard so I can play hard.  Life's short.


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## hypnotiq (Mar 8, 2012)

chriskre said:


> I work hard so I can play hard.  Life's short.



Pretty much my motto as well. 

Although, racing takes up about 1/3 of my vacation, so I only have 2/3 to get away on 'vacations'.


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## heathpack (Mar 8, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Pretty much my motto as well.
> 
> Although, racing takes up about 1/3 of my vacation, so I only have 2/3 to get away on 'vacations'.



What do you race?  Mastiffs?

 

H


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## hypnotiq (Mar 8, 2012)

heathpack said:


> What do you race?  Mastiffs?
> 
> 
> 
> H



Hey, a horse joke, I havent heard one of those in a while. 

I race motorcycles. 





-Nico


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## heathpack (Mar 8, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Hey, a horse joke, I havent heard one of those in a while.
> 
> I race motorcycles.
> 
> ...



Look out!  Your knee is scraping!

H


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## TravelMamma (Mar 15, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> This is soo true, before timesharing i literally forgot to vacation, now that i'm prepaying it sort of forces me to...its been amazing, i remember 5 vacations from my youth, my parents are workaholics....in the last 2yrs i've vacationed more then i did in the last almost 30 years



Hi ridewithme38,
I think we own a similiar timeshare (posted you on another thread about it), but we have owned since 2000 and have exchanged to Sheraton Vistana Resort Orlando, Sheraton Vistana Villages Orlando, Marriott Grande Vista Orlando, Marriott's Aruba Surf Club and Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club.  Some of these have been multiple times.  We also have bought many getaways including: Williamsburg Plantation VA, Willowbrook at Lake Harmony, Inn Seasons Lincoln NH, Smugglers Notch Resort VT, Alexandra Resort Turks&Caicos, and have purchased getaway weeks into the resorts that we have also exchanged into.  Those are the ones I can think of of the top of my head.  But I also have seen many other great resorts that I could have exchanged into if I wanted.  

Sometimes it's great too to see how much money it would have costed you for a week somewhere if you didn't have timeshare.  For example, one time the week I exchanged into the Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club was going for $4700 (for the same unit type and exact dates) online through other travel reservations sites.  Getaways are great too, the same week and unit type for Turks&Caicos right now that we purchased for a future getaway is going for $2700 vs. the $1074 we paid.  Not as much a savings as the Aruba week, but still over 50% off.  Happy traveling to ya!


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## chapjim (Mar 15, 2012)

bobpark56 said:


> You seem to have forgotten opportunity costs...the $ you could have been earning from investing (instead) the $ you spent on purchasing your vacation ownerships.



Dog!! How did an economist get in the timeshare business?

But, at this point, he has no next best alternative.  He's gotta pay the maintance fees (as do we all!).  No next best alternatives = no opportunity cost.


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## chapjim (Mar 15, 2012)

Dec 30-Jan 6:  Wyndham La Belle Maison (1BR Pres), $531
Jan 6-7:  Wyndham Panama City Beach (2BR Pres), $107
Jan 7-14: Wyndham Santa Barbara (1 BR), $874
Jan 14-15:  Wyndham Lake Marion (3BR), $119.42
Feb 17-21:  Wyndham Governor's Green (3BR): $149

Averaging cost/night makes no sense with different size units and presidential units mixed in.  For all of these, it was just my wife and me.  We like space but if we don't have it, we get along.


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> So i was playing around with math a couple of days ago and figured my costs for vacations this year was around $2,094 for 24 nights...or about *$87.25 a night*
> 
> RCI 1yr = $89
> 2br Massanutten = $375 (7 nights)
> ...



OK so i screwed up my plans for this year...*$92.62 a night*

RCI 1yr = $89
RCI Platinum = $55
2br Massanutten = $375 (7 Nights)
2br Hershey = $566 (3 Nights) (i might end up regretting paying this much)
2br Ski Side Village = $539 ($169+$89+$285)(7 Nights) 
3br Governors Green = $599 ($189+$410)(7 Nights)

If i didn't get the "Vacation Protection" on the Ski Side village it would have been *$89.08 a night*, i'm aiming for $80 a night next year, but i don't know if that's going to be possible, because of my MF


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## dmharris (Mar 26, 2012)

Ridewithme38 said:


> This is soo true, before timesharing i literally forgot to vacation, now that i'm prepaying it sort of forces me to...its been amazing, i remember 5 vacations from my youth, my parents are workaholics....in the last 2yrs i've vacationed more then i did in the last almost 30 years



Me too; I have no idea what we pay and I don't care; we've had 3 vacations since November and prior to owning a timeshare we didn't take any for years.   Now we've taken at least 14 weeks vacation since the end of 2006.  That's +2/year!


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## dmharris (Mar 26, 2012)

Nico, where do you race?  Before I met my darling husband, I dated a guy who did road racing with a BMW in the midwest.  I learned to love the sport; I'm a big ballet fan and to me it was ballet on a bike.


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## hypnotiq (Mar 26, 2012)

dmharris said:


> Nico, where do you race?  Before I met my darling husband, I dated a guy who did road racing with a BMW in the midwest.  I learned to love the sport; I'm a big ballet fan and to me it was ballet on a bike.



I race primarly on the West Coast, primarly in OR/WA.  I also own a race instruction school as well.  I had plans to do AMA last year but I decided to hold off till my daughter is a little bit older.


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## winger (Mar 27, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I would call a foul under what I understand the Accountant's rule number one.  That is past costs do not count on the future math.  Therefore, I think a more realistic formula would be $4165 divided by the number of days used.  I would also disallow the TUG fee.  If you redo the math, you may have a plesant surprise.
> 
> P.S.  Out of idol interest, do you know what that figure is?



Where does the amount $*4165 *come from?

Also, by the Accountant's rule, are you saying *exclude *the purchase cost from the per-night math?


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## Ken555 (Jan 5, 2017)

Ken555 said:


> Since 2005 I've visited SVN properties a total of 114 nights at an  average nightly cost of $68.34. This does not include deed costs or  other incidentals (such as the Maui nightly tax), but does include MFs,  SVN membership fees, and property taxes. Even if I sold my Platinum SVN  week now I would likely recoup all but ~$6,000 of my initial cost, thus  increasing nightly rates by an additional $52.63 (not including lost opportunity costs, which I believe - as others do - is incidental). If true, then my actual cost was $120.94 per night for the 114 nights, which is the  "right" price for me.
> 
> This includes 34 nights in Maui, 23 nights at Harborside, 17 nights at  Kierland, 13 nights in Cancun, 13 nights at Desert Willow, 7 nights in Princeville  and 7 nights at Mission Hills.



For the curious...

Update including planned 2017 SVN reservations totals:

# of nights: 238
Ave cost per night: $74.38
* includes MFs, SVN fees, property taxes and any extra housekeeping charges (but not Maui nightly taxes)

If I sold WKV Plat 2-bed for $17,000, my average cost per night increases to $91.16.

For 2017 my nightly cost is $82.04 (22 nights; 13 in Maui and 9 in Rancho Mirage)

This includes 95 nights in Maui, 23 nights at Harborside, 17 nights at  Kierland, 13 nights in Cancun, 68 nights at Desert Willow, 14 nights in Princeville, seven nights at Mission Hills, and one night at Vistana Villages.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Ken555 said:


> For the curious...
> 
> Update including planned 2017 SVN reservations totals:
> 
> ...


Why the difference if you were to sell your WKV week? Is the ~$4000 difference the amount of loss you would take when reselling?

This cost per night really shows the value of WKV. We own SVV and just based on our 2017 usage, we are at about $100 a night.


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## Ken555 (Jan 5, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Why the difference if you were to sell your WKV week? Is the ~$4000 difference the amount of loss you would take when reselling?
> 
> This cost per night really shows the value of WKV. We own SVV and just based on our 2017 usage, we are at about $100 a night.



Yes, I include the higher average nightly cost to accommodate for the (current) loss of the deed based on what I paid and the estimated sale price. While not including lost opportunity (ie. interest or other benefits by using the original purchase price in another way, such as an investment) this comes close to approximating the true cost of the ownership for the time I owned it. 

Of course, if you purchase WKV now over the next 10 years you will likely have a higher per night cost since MFs are higher (and lately increasing every year). Still, assuming no substantial changes to the program or value of the resorts, I suspect the cost of WKV vs SVV will always favor WKV.


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