# HYATT business plans going forward



## seatrout (Jan 17, 2008)

I am currious to see what other Hyatt owner think of the current trend in New Hyatt vacation club comming on line in the past year.  

So far, all the new one in the upcoming year as well as recent addition: Aspen, Beaver Creek, Siesta Key, Lake Tahoe, New York, maybe Hawaii and California.  They are ALL fractional ownership with some floating days.

Does this mean the end of building lowly timeshares for Hyatt ??
Has Hyatt change the direction of HVC to development of high end fractional going forward ??  Is there any insider with Hyatt that know these info?  Kal ??

I do love the HYATT product and am excited about the possiblity of staying in these location with my lowly resale timeshare.  I am also concern that these new high-end addition would mean that we would be mainly staying in these location during shoulder season rather than peak time. 



Triet


----------



## JeffW (Jan 17, 2008)

No specific knowledge, but I wonder if it's Hyatt deciding to give their club the appearance of a high-end timeshare brand.  Marriott is well known, and I think has the biggest selection (# of locations).  Disney is also well known, selling well, but pretty much limited to around their theme parks.  Where does Hyatt fit in?  Maybe they think if prospective buyers associate them with $300k or so fractionals in high-end locations, the $25k they ask for timeshares might seem like a great deal.

Jeff


----------



## Kal (Jan 18, 2008)

My OPINION is that the fractional ownership strategy will be very good for Hyatt's bottom line. These are all very spendy units catering to a specific target segment. The properties all have a relatively small number of units.

If I was one of a subgroup of people who purchased a fractional share (i.e. maybe 1 week's worth) I definitely would not trade it. If I did, it would be many years later after I had plenty of opportunities for usage. In any case, I could rent the unit outright for a substantial price.

What this means to me is these units will not be available like timeshare units. I hope I'm wrong, but as we all know, there is no free lunch.


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Jan 18, 2008)

I am not an expert on Hyatt, but fractionals are usually sold in much larger shares than 1/52 like timeshares. It is common to see 1/8 and 1/12 options.

Thus, a fractional Hyatt could possible sell 1/12 option with 4 weeks such as 2 prime weeks and 2 non-prime weeks. 

I have even seen 1/14 fractions at the Four seasons Jackson Hole that gives 1 week summer, 1 week winter, 1 week sholder.

Fractionals are MUCH nicer than timeshares and are almost equivalent to Destination Clubs.

If Hyatt can corner the fractional business then they could make a ton of moneuy. However, many fractionals are a tough sell now and many projects are not being built. Resale information is alos not readily available and trading companies like II/RCI are just starting to trade fractionals.

This is a relatively new product.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 18, 2008)

I agreed with Kal in that there is more $$ to the bottom line for Hyatt with the current trend in their development for fractional.  The sale/development of  existing TS inventory at Hyatt have been  slow IMHO.  

I also agreed that if I was a fractional owner paying 300K + for my week, I would stay or rent and only deposit offseason week for other to use.

One of the best thing about Hyatt is the ease of reserving any week, even a premium xmas/newyear week at other  HVC locations (with exception of the fractional)

It is not that I want the "free lunch" .  I  like the  the ability of trading my ham/cheese  for a peanut butter sandwith and like more equitable options to trade during premium time.


----------



## benjaminb13 (Jan 18, 2008)

Kal said:


> My OPINION is that the fractional ownership strategy will be very good for Hyatt's bottom line. These are all very spendy units catering to a specific target segment. The properties all have a relatively small number of units.
> 
> If I was one of a subgroup of people who purchased a fractional share (i.e. maybe 1 week's worth) I definitely would not trade it. If I did, it would be many years later after I had plenty of opportunities for usage. In any case, I could rent the unit outright for a substantial price.
> 
> What this means to me is these units will not be available like timeshare units. I hope I'm wrong, but as we all know, there is no free lunch.



,
If Hyatt is moving out of timeshares and into fractionals
What does this mean for timesshare owners?
Trying to make some sense of it
If Hyatt stops building timeshare units and only builds fractionals- which may be unavailable-
Then we, as timeshare owners, are left without any possibility of expansion untiil the timeshares- as no more new timeshares will be built
Also, Since we will be unable to use our points toward the fractionals- 
Our vacations possibilities will be limited and die a slow death-
Do you think this will cause our units will go down in value?


----------



## Kal (Jan 18, 2008)

When I say "subgroup of people..." I refer to situations where a small group of people combine resources to purchase the fractional share. Each person may only own 1-2 weeks. A single person buying a fractional share would be in a different category.

In either case, I don't see much availability in the near term for those units.

However, Hyatt will have various options for the inventory of unsold units. One option is to provide those units to the HVC. In that case those units would become available. IMHO, I doubt that will occur as Hyatt could command bigger dollars in using that inventory through other means. But a few of those unsold units MIGHT become available.

When I say "free lunch" I am suggesting that owners of units which were purchased for as little as $10K should not expect to get a unit which sells for $300K. Fortunately though the Hyatt system is designed to make that happen. However, it will very likely take 2000-2200 points to even get into a fractional unit, so that eliminates low-point owners.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 18, 2008)

Kal

you are very "politically correct"

Anyway-- Do you think that -- as the economy improves, and Hyatt make $$ from the Fractional-- they will build more TS ??
I though you also own Kal Fantastic fortune telling Service ??  What does the future hold for us ??

Or should we start telling TUGGER to stop buying Resale and start to Buy more developer weeks ??


----------



## Kal (Jan 18, 2008)

Hmmmm, if you rub crystal balls, the swami will tell you anything you want to hear. By the way, who's your daddy!  

Frankly, if we look at the housing market we see that the very high-end sales are still maintaining.  The fractionals seem to cater to that same buyer so Hyatt has good market sense. What it means for the "standard" timeshare is uncertain.

In two weeks I'll have a chance to sit down with some Hyatt folks and try to get their take on the pulse.  Hopefully I'll know more then.

With regard to the question of buying resale, that's always the best approach particularly if a person has flexibility.  If the buyer has their heart set on a specific unit/week then resale will be very limited.  The developer has a much better inventory.


----------



## bdh (Jan 19, 2008)

seatrout said:


> I am currious to see what other Hyatt owner think of the current trend in New Hyatt vacation club comming on line in the past year.
> 
> So far, all the new one in the upcoming year as well as recent addition: Aspen, Beaver Creek, Siesta Key, Lake Tahoe, New York, maybe Hawaii and California.  They are ALL fractional ownership with some floating days.
> 
> ...




While the recent Hyatt trend is building fractional properties, I don't believe that it automatically kills or de-values the "lowly resale timeshare".  

If the "lowly resale timeshare" week is a high point (1880 and up) week, I think the actual value will go up - while the prime weeks at the fractional properties retail for $75K to $175, the 2bd unit are still only worth 1880 to 2200 points.  Simple math tells you that the high point weeks on the resale market are going to be more desirable and will command a higher price.  If you should happen to find a high point value "bargain" on the resale market, expect Hyatt to take it via ROFR - and from reading/hearing what is not clearing ROFR these days, it seems that trend started 8 - 12 months ago.

If the "lowly resale timeshare" is a 1400 point or less week, I think the resale value will remain right where its at.  Every Hyatt owner knows that each Hyatt resort is an extremely nice property - but if you should feel slighted with your low point value week, feel free to punish me and send me to Key West in Nov or early Dec.  While you will not be able to trade into a prime fractional week with a low point value week, the low point weeks are still nice places and will retain their value.

As far as availabilty goes at the fractionals - due to the basic principles of the Hyatt system, if you have the points and plan ahead, you'll will have access to the units.  By the basic nature of high point value weeks being more desirable travel times, they will not be sitting empty 2 - 3 months out.   But if you use Northstar as an example, since they only actually sell 20 weeks of the year, that leaves 32 weeks open for easy non-Northstar Hyatt owner exchanges.  Granted some of those 32 weeks will be considered Mud season.  However, they are not selling weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12 (these are 2000 point weeks - week 9 is actually a 2200) and they are not selling weeks 14, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 34 (these are 1880 point weeks).  So there will be access to some prime weeks if you have the points. 

In my mind, Hyatt (and their associated developers) believe it is a better market at this point in time to build fractionals and sell 20 weeks at $100K plus then it is to build standard TS units and have to sell 52 weeks for $15K to $35K.  

As long as each fractional property has a point value associated with each week and trades within the HVC, I'm not seeing any downside for me.


----------



## Snow&Sun (Jan 20, 2008)

*Fractionals*

I believe the fractional concept is a good thing for the owners that like the high end accomodations, which just means its going to have a high price tag. I am sure that as we all know those owners are going to use those times. The new destinations, Siesta Key, NYC, Northstar are all great locations for certain people. I was in Tahoe a couple weeks ago and they are building, they have a sales gallery there and are taking reservations, I was very surprised that they did have quite a few reservations. Even in this market it seems that the ones that really want what they want are going to buy it and the other ones with not. I asked the sales girl and she said that the northstar owners will have a 6 month jump on all the other vacation club owners, not sure if that is true but if it is then yes that will only get us into the shoulder off seasons with the Hyatt. Who knows where this all leaves us...


----------



## Kal (Jan 20, 2008)

Snow&Sun said:


> I...she said that the northstar owners will have a 6 month jump on all the other vacation club owners, not sure if that is true but if it is then yes that will only get us into the shoulder off seasons with the Hyatt. Who knows where this all leaves us...


 
My guess is that the "6-month jump" is just the HRPP period.  Owners have 6-months to decide usage of their owned unit/week then unused units are turned over to HVC members.  That's the normal cycle and not unique to Northstar.


----------



## Snow&Sun (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi Kal, I know the HRPP process but what I was meaning is that all the float points that the owners in Northstar receive besides their deeded 7 day period they can make their reservations one year out and then they have 6 month priority before they even open up to the other vacation club owners. Which means all Northstar owners will have the first right using their float points  along with their right to use their deeded week.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 21, 2008)

Snow & sun.  If I was a Northstar Owner, it would not be fair if I can not reserve my "float" points one year out just as my "deed" points.  This would put a 6mo headstart on other HVC /non Northstar owner.   But then, my kids may say to try to go somewhere else -- So the "float" week would open up for us.

I also saw somewhere at the Beavercreek ParkHyatt resident owner webpage where they can "trade" their week outside of HVC.  I can't seem to find the link again thought.

So -- I would suspect that during the first few years, we should anticipate on going to these location during "shoulder" season.


----------



## bdh (Jan 22, 2008)

Snow&Sun said:


> the float points that the owners in Northstar receive besides their deeded 7 day period they can make their reservations one year out




If the typical Hyatt TS owner can request 18 months out, does that provide a 6 month jump on the Northstar owner's that have a 12 month window with their float points?  If that's the case, then the typical Hyatt TS owner could have priority access to weeks that are not being sold (weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12).  So instead of shoulder season availability, the typical Hyatt TS owner has access to prime ski weeks - if you have the points. 

There's alot of conjecture with the float point topic - so who's going to call Northstar and find out?


----------



## Pit (Jan 22, 2008)

bdh said:


> If the typical Hyatt TS owner can request 18 months out, does that provide a 6 month jump on the Northstar owner's that have a 12 month window with their float points?  If that's the case, then the typical Hyatt TS owner could have priority access to weeks that are not being sold (weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12).  So instead of shoulder season availability, the typical Hyatt TS owner has access to prime ski weeks - if you have the points.
> 
> There's alot of conjecture with the float point topic - so who's going to call Northstar and find out?



Ok, I thought I understood the Hyatt reservation system, but this thread has me confused. I thought the "typical Hyatt TS owner" had 6 months to claim his own interval (from 12 months out to 6 months out). Once beyond that 6 month window, the owner can use points to book other HVC units. Is that correct, or have I oversimplified? And, in what way is Northstar different?


----------



## Carmel85 (Jan 23, 2008)

Hyatt Siesta Key will be of course fractional 6 weeks total 4 fixed and 2 float weeks. Either you can buy winter or summer fixed weeks 395k and up for 2 bedroom most units are 3 bedrooms and some 4 bedrooms.

Opening in late spring 2009 and Hyatt will be selling these units starting Mid/Late February 2008 just around the corner. 

ALL the units are true 2,3,4 bedroom unit NO lock-offs. 


Now you see why you need to get high point weeks or at least 4400+ Hyatt points if you want the best weeks and the best units 3,4 bedrooms.  

Remember at 2200 hyatt points you can go any season but I think there will only be only four 2 bedroom units at this resort.

I hear that most of the new Hyatt resorts coming will be like this so go get your Hyatt Points now.


----------



## seatrout (Jan 23, 2008)

Carmel

I ended up convincing wife to let me get more points.  Waiting for ROFR.
Did you get yours ??

The concern is that-- even if we have the point, we won't be going to most of these high end location except shoulder season-- which is OK with us for a few years.  Do you know how the "float" points are reserved for these location.

Triet


----------



## Snow&Sun (Jan 29, 2008)

*Reserving Northstar*

I believe all Northstar owners will have first right to reserve their week over the other Hyatt owners, They can make their reservations one year out and have 6 months priority over US the other Hyatt owners. The inventory will not be released to us until 6 months before that date, which gives all Northstar owners the first right, they are spending more than the typical TS we own for points. You have your guaranteed week along with your float points, float points will be treated as an additional HRPP giving them the first right to the unsold weeks to be booked back into Northstar????????


----------



## Kal (Jan 29, 2008)

Snow&Sun said:


> I believe all Northstar owners will have first right to reserve their week over the other Hyatt owners, They can make their reservations one year out and have 6 months priority over US the other Hyatt owners. The inventory will not be released to us until 6 months before that date, which gives all Northstar owners the first right, they are spending more than the typical TS we own for points....


 
How does that differ from the standard HRPP and CUP seasons for owners?  For all the other HVC resorts an owner can make their reservation for the owned unit one year out and have 6 months before that unit is released to other Hyatt owners.


----------

