# POLL:  How does the Crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 impact your travel plans?



## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2014)

****You can vote for as many options as you want - see poll ABOVE thread. ˆˆˆ*

Please note that the purpose of this thread is NOT to discuss the incident - we already have a thread for that - but you are welcome to discuss your TRAVEL PLANS.  

I intentionally used the word "crash," without referring to the cause.

ME:  We were planning an extended trip across Europe in about 12 mos., (Rivercruise from Amsterdam to the Black Sea and another week in Germany) but I will wait and see what the future brings, before making any plans.


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## LannyPC (Jul 19, 2014)

*Not Much Change Here*

Our travel plans for this year are confined to the western hemisphere in and  around country/countries that currently have no major civil unrest.


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## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2014)

I am surprised to see that [6] people have choosen:  *I have no concerns about flying anywhere. *

Does that really mean you are ready to book a flight to the Ukraine?


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## Dori (Jul 19, 2014)

We are flying to Korea in September, and have no qualms. Of course, we will be nowhere near the Ukraine or Russia. We fly Toronto to Narita, Japan and then on to Seoul.

Dori


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## persia (Jul 19, 2014)

We've decided no wandering in our return to Sydney and no foreign airlines, Qantas all the way.


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## LLW (Jul 19, 2014)

I used to choose flights based on price, convenience of schedules, and whether I have miles for it. In the future, when flying out of the US, I will also look into flight paths and airlines. I won't fly over hostile regions.

But I had started to dislike flying because of all the hassles around TSA security, and now I just dislike flying a little more. I will still fly if the destination is worth it, but not, if the destination is not attractive enough.


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## Magic1962 (Jul 19, 2014)

A  week from tomorrow I will be flying to Tanzania with a group of 2 high schoolers and 4 college age youth.... No real worries.... We always talk about safety.... We are always on the lookout, and we will not go to Zanzabar... Because of recent killings of Christians..... And at no times will anyone be on their own.... The group goes everywhere together.... Dave....  Our flights are, Detroit to Boston. To Dubai to Dar es Salaam. And back....


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## x3 skier (Jul 19, 2014)

Flying in a war zone is best left to combat pilots and aircrew. 

Other than that I fly anywhere else including two trips to and around Europe this fall.

Cheers


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## SMHarman (Jul 19, 2014)

You are still more likely to die on the interstate heading to the airport than on flight.


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## MuranoJo (Jul 20, 2014)

We have a flight to France next year in the fall, and so far, intend to follow through on plans.  (We also have good travel insurance, just in case.)


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 20, 2014)

I had not planned to travel over/through/by areas of conflict in the world to start with and don't intend to.

I'm not even fond of minor turbulence.

Before a flight, I am usually familiar with the route and always check the aircraft make/model as I never fly on puddle jumpers. I'll take the train first.

YMMV.


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## CarolF (Jul 20, 2014)

Like many Australians, I'm very fond of Malaysian Airlines and I will make every effort to continue to support them.  It is awful that such a fine airline has been rocked by 2 terrible events and I'm concerned that they won't survive.  

There are different levels of conflicts in my "neighbourhood" and I'm accustomed to the idea of flying to and over these areas but I will look closer at flight paths and routes in future.


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## Jimster (Jul 20, 2014)

*Terrorism*

I don't understand how anyone can say they will not fly through hostile areas only.  In the current world climate of terrorism the WHOLE WORLD is hostile to flying.  All it takes is a terrorist and a hand held rocket launcher and a plane can be taken down.  This could  happen almost anywhere including the USA.  One poster said they were flying Narita to Korea.  That is exactly where KAL 007 was shot down as they flew over Sakalin island.  Admittedly, there are some ares that are safer than others, but maybe that is only our perception based on the lack of a prior incident in that area.  

I will fly wherever I want.   I refuse to let the terrorists deter me.  If I do, then the terrorists win.  

Also you could make the same arguments train travel.  After all terrorists derailed a train in Spain- a subway in london and tokyo.  I suppose that leaves the most unsafe of all namely car or bus  travel.  So I suppose you could sit home in your underground bunker, but then you lose the quality of life we have all worked to attain and the terrorists have destroyed us.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 20, 2014)

For me, it's what's _known_. That is, active and open bombing, shooting, war-torn villages, roadside & bus bombings aren't on my list of places to be near, over, etc.

I avoid what is known, consider/ponder (anticipate) what is not known and make my travel arrangements thus. That is, I make logical decisions for my own personal safety and for those traveling with me.

I want to visit the Holy Land some day, but not now.

I'd like to visit the Ukraine, but not now.

Would like to see Bali, but that was pushed way down on my list.

Years ago I wanted to see Belfast, but stayed away during the "troubles".

I've volunteered in Honduras many, many years ago, but not now.

I go to many, many places and understand the inherent risks, but something could happen here in Boston, too..............and it did.


So, one does not need to hunker down in a bunker, but can travel where their personal comfort level takes them, abroad or local.

Interesting opinions.... no rights or wrongs here, just one's comfort level with regards to personal and family safety.  YMMV.


-


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## PigsDad (Jul 20, 2014)

Jimster said:


> I will fly wherever I want.   I refuse to let the terrorists deter me.  If I do, then the terrorists win.



Well said, Jim.

Kurt


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## AnnaS (Jul 20, 2014)

No flight plans as of now or next year.  I don't like/enjoy flying anyway or I would be on a plane to Italy every few years.

I do fly but hate it/afraid/would rather not.  More worried about mechanical issues than terrorist acts even though this does not help.


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## am1 (Jul 20, 2014)

How is this an option?

No impact - I never fly out of the US.


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## presley (Jul 20, 2014)

No impact - I never fly out of the US. That's what I chose, but I would fly to Canada and Mexico.  Wouldn't have flown outside of North American before or after that incident.


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## Ron98GT (Jul 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> ****You can vote for as many options as you want - see poll ABOVE thread. ˆˆˆ*
> 
> Please note that the purpose of this thread is NOT to discuss the incident - we already have a thread for that - but you are welcome to discuss your TRAVEL PLANS.
> 
> ...



You neglected to state where you disembark after you enter the Black Sea: Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Ukraine? 

I wouldn't cancel the trip, unless your going to Ukraine.


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## DeniseM (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm not cancelling the trip - I'm postponing it - it hasn't been booked yet.


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## Jimster (Jul 20, 2014)

*ukraine*

Just 3 days ago the rebels shot down a Ukraine transport plane.  While 55 other flights were flown over that region the day of the shooting, the US had told US airlines not to do so.  So at least some were put on notice of the danger.  Having said that, the air space over 32k feet was considered outside the war zone.


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## stmartinfan (Jul 20, 2014)

We've got a trip booked for September that starts in Istanbul and then cruises through the Greek islands to Athens.  I've been reading about how many of those from Europe and other countries who are joining up as terrorists in Syria or neighboring countries make their trip via Turkey.  It was kind of disconcerting to me, but I also realized that my tourist dollars can help Turkey and its remaining more neutral is important.  Elections are coming up soon in Turkey, so hopefully it will stay calm through the process and the transition to the new government.  We did buy trip insurance.


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## patty5ia (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm with you, Jimster.  I won't let terrorists rule my life.  I will be careful, but I won't stay home......


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## vnfilm (Jul 20, 2014)

LLW said:


> I used to choose flights based on price, convenience of schedules, and whether I have miles for it. In the future, when flying out of the US, I will also look into flight paths and airlines. I won't fly over hostile regions.
> 
> But I had started to dislike flying because of all the hassles around TSA security, and now I just dislike flying a little more. I will still fly if the destination is worth it, but not, if the destination is not attractive enough.



I just wonder how you can check for flight path if within US or over sea . I always like to know, but unable to find that information . If you do know how, please share . Thank you


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## johnrsrq (Jul 20, 2014)

vnfilm said:


> I just wonder how you can check for flight path if within US or over sea . I always like to know, but unable to find that information . If you do know how, please share . Thank you



http://flightaware.com/news/article/Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17-MAS17MH17-crashes-in-Ukraine/195

This site in addition to others which have live and historical  domestic and international flight paths are in my focus.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jul 20, 2014)

johnrsrq said:


> http://flightaware.com/news/article/Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17-MAS17MH17-crashes-in-Ukraine/195
> 
> This site in addition to others which have live and historical  domestic and international flight paths are in my focus.





I love Flightaware for this and for tracking flight arrivals & departures.

Thanks for posting.


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## x3 skier (Jul 20, 2014)

This is the type of person who is qualified to fly in a war zone, not airline pilots, cabin crew or passengers. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm6uh6rc0dM

Cheers


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## x3 skier (Jul 20, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I love Flightaware for this and for tracking flight arrivals & departures.
> 
> Thanks for posting.



Use it all the time to check if the inbound aircraft that makes up my flight is on schedule. Much better than the ground staff at the airport. 

Cheers


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## persia (Jul 20, 2014)

Jimster said:


> I will fly wherever I want.   I refuse to let the terrorists deter me.  If I do, then the terrorists win.



If the terrorists kill me, they win.


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## Jimster (Jul 21, 2014)

*tug*



persia said:


> If the terrorists kill me, they win.



Since you have already lost your freedom and quality of life,  you might as well be dead.   That is what has already happened in Mosul Iraq where christians were told they convert to islam or die.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2014)

Jimster said:


> Since you have already lost your freedom and quality of life,  you might as well be dead.   That is what has already happened in Mosul Iraq where christians were told they convert to islam or die.



Geeeeeze, nothing is ever that black and white!  I, we all, already have less freedom because governments/security forces all over the world have had no choice but to respond to safety concerns as a result of terrorism.  Taking additional personal responsibility for relative safety in a world full of terrorism doesn't mean you're sacrificing your freedom or letting the terrorists win; it just means that you're being smart about your surroundings.  I'm okay with being smart, not so okay with being dead.  

I honestly don't know what to think about travel anymore; it seems no atrocity is out of the realm of possibility.

I'll continue to fly stateside but won't be as nonchalant about it, any other flights through "safe" zones will be difficult but doable.  My worrying over Don's worldwide travel is ratcheted way up and probably won't dial down until it's over.


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## persia (Jul 21, 2014)

@SueDonJ

Exactly, there is a need for what I can "wisdom."  Everything carries a risk, knowing those risks and balancing them with the benefits is something we all should be doing.  For example going to this years Boston Marathon had very low risk and for many very high benefits.  The attack last year was random and done by rank amateurs.  The chance of it happening again was very, very small.  The benefits were the special camaraderie and good feelings from attending. So the balance was far on the "let's go" side.

On the other hand flying off to a drinking party in Mosul has a fair bit of potential danger and not a whole lot of reward.  Thirty years ago I did my own personal risk/benefit evaluation on a trip to Iraq, it was a different world, and yes cutting to the chase, I hoisted a few glasses of arak in Mosul.  

Bottom line, "wisdom" demands that we look at the chance of terrorist activity and put it in our own risk/benefit analysis.  It has nothing to do with freedom or showing the terrorists something they aren't going to be impressed with.


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## mav (Jul 21, 2014)

Jimster said:


> I don't understand how anyone can say they will not fly through hostile areas only.  In the current world climate of terrorism the WHOLE WORLD is hostile to flying.  All it takes is a terrorist and a hand held rocket launcher and a plane can be taken down.  This could  happen almost anywhere including the USA.  One poster said they were flying Narita to Korea.  That is exactly where KAL 007 was shot down as they flew over Sakalin island.  Admittedly, there are some ares that are safer than others, but maybe that is only our perception based on the lack of a prior incident in that area.
> 
> I will fly wherever I want.   I refuse to let the terrorists deter me.  If I do, then the terrorists win.
> 
> Also you could make the same arguments train travel.  After all terrorists derailed a train in Spain- a subway in london and tokyo.  I suppose that leaves the most unsafe of all namely car or bus  travel.  So I suppose you could sit home in your underground bunker, but then you lose the quality of life we have all worked to attain and the terrorists have destroyed us.




    I'm like you, and one of the ones that is not changing any plans.  I feel like I have more of a chance of being  shot here in the USA and more likely to rather then die in a plane crash. I have been busily booking 2015 trips and one  I just booked for Februrary is Beirut, Lebanon, and I booked that  about 2 days after the crash. I'm in England right now and busy booking next years trips.  Have 3 major trips in the fall. Nope, no change in plans for me. Life is short and I'm packing in as much as possible .


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## mav (Jul 22, 2014)

P.S.  Youngest daughter is a band director at a high school. Do I worry about her teaching in the USA ???  YOU BET!!! Not even safe for the kids and teachers to be in  school!


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## urban5 (Jul 23, 2014)

*Altered Plans*

When the conflict started getting hot last month I changed plans to travel through Ukraine to Russia by plane, and eliminated that portion of the trip.  Friends we were staying with throughout Europe felt relieved when we made the changes, and with the recent incident we are as well.


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## Beefnot (Jul 23, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Please note that the purpose of this thread is NOT to discuss the incident - we already have a thread for that - but you are welcome to discuss your TRAVEL PLANS.
> 
> I intentionally used the word "crash," without referring to the cause.



Understand the purpose was not to discuss the incident, but we should at least be honest about the circumstances. People are answering the poll question not based on the plane crashing, but that it was shot down.


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## gnorth16 (Jul 25, 2014)

Dori said:


> We are flying to Korea in September, and have no qualms. Of course, we will be nowhere near the Ukraine or Russia. We fly Toronto to Narita, Japan and then on to Seoul.
> 
> Dori



If you fly Toronto to Narita, you will most likely fly in Russian Airspace. Going over the North Pole (or even near it) cuts off about 20% flying time than going over the Pacific Ocean.  The winds would have to be significantly different from the norms to not fly this route.  

Fun site to check out http://gc.kls2.com/ It shows the great circle routes for flights.  If you punch in yyz and rjaa, you can see it does fly over Russian Land and Russian controlled water. I used to work the Toronto-Tokyo flight on a daily basis when controlling planes over Northern Canada.


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## Laurie (Aug 8, 2014)

Regarding not the incident with the plane, but rather the ratcheting up of the conflict last few days: we have an upcoming trip which includes Budapest area, and note that Hungary shares a border with Ukraine.

We'll have a car and don't know all the areas in Hungary we want to see yet. Any thoughts on this, anyone?  I'm inquiring at the request of my co-traveller, who trusts in TUG wisdom.  

We're flying into Vienna and out of Prague, so airspace isn't an issue. At least I don't think it will be ...


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