# Hilton "upgrade" pitch



## epearsall (Aug 13, 2022)

Diamond owners beware!
Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:

1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.

2.They are painting a  picture that staying Diamond is a bad deal.

3. these guys are Master liars and exaggerators.  I think that existing diamond owners who dont want to pay the MASSIVE charge to converat to Hilton grand Vacations need to stick together and fight this nonsense.


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## Talent312 (Aug 13, 2022)

There's _two_ flaws in that argument:
1. You're hearing it from a TS sales-weasel who lies...
"How do you know a TS salesman is lying?... His lips are moving."

2. DRI owners won't migrate anywhere. They'll stay DRI owners.
They may choose to add HGV-Max as an overlay... but IMHO...
That is a fool's errand as it's far cheaper to buy HGVC resale.
------------------
But as HGV takes over & upgrades DRI resorts to the Hilton style,
MF's will rise, not from the loss of owners, but due to the different
standards. (IMHO)
.


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## goaliedave (Aug 13, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond owners beware!
> Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:
> 
> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.
> ...


Nothing new. As has been written a dozen times here, Diamond owners best stand pat so as to maintain current benefits. Its a lower class customer than HGVC so no interest in upgrading.


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## chapjim (Aug 14, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond owners beware!
> Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:
> 
> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   *However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE*.
> ...



How massive is MASSIVE?


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## elaine (Aug 14, 2022)

But as more units from dri move over to max, max has to pay the propionate maintenance fees for those units, so it should be a wash. As others have speculated, increase in fees is more likely to occur from dri resorts being upgraded by Hilton.


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## dayooper (Aug 14, 2022)

elaine said:


> But as more units from dri move over to max, max has to pay the propionate maintenance fees for those units, so it should be a wash. As others have speculated, increase in fees is more likely to occur from dri resorts being upgraded by Hilton.



Do we know if DRI points move to Max? The way I understand it (very, very limited) is that Max is just a cross booking platform that allows it’s members to book both systems. Nothing to move.


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## elaine (Aug 14, 2022)

I also haven't delved into the HGVC-DRI intricacies. Maybe it's just a booking platform. I was assuming that the reps were referring to some type of "conversion" to MAX in that upgrade from DRI to HGV that would have some transfer of ownership? I'm waiting to see what transpires over on the HGVC side.


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## ocdb8r (Aug 15, 2022)

epearsall said:


> ...their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.


This is clearly totally illogical as there will never be "fewer" Diamond "owners" as all points in each trust are owned by someone.  The only risk is if more "owners" default causing bad debt (which must be absorbed by the remaining owners unless/until paid).  As such, either a) these supposed migrations would need to be owners who retain their Diamond points and acquire HGVC points and then default on their Diamond maintenance fees; or b) these supposed migrations sell back their points in order to buy HGVC points...in which case HGV is on the hook for the maintenance fees.


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## 90_Min_Sales_Pitch (Aug 18, 2022)

chapjim said:


> How massive is MASSIVE?



Massively Massive!!


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## pedro47 (Aug 18, 2022)

What was the name of the hedge company form that Hilton purchase DRI from?
Are they involve indirectly in anyway with the Hilton acquisition now?


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## ocdb8r (Aug 18, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> What was the name of the hedge company form that Hilton purchase DRI from?
> Are they involve indirectly in anyway with the Hilton acquisition now?


Apollo Global Management - they received a significant stake in HGV as part of the transaction and also gained two seats on the HGV Board....so yes, they remain directly involved but no longer "manage" DRI in any way.


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## pedro47 (Aug 18, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Apollo Global Management - they received a significant stake in HGV as part of the transaction and also gained two seats on the HGV Board....so yes, they remain directly involved but no longer "manage" DRI in any way.


Thanks for that information.


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## TJALB (Aug 21, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond owners beware!
> Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:
> 
> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.
> ...


Where did you get your information? I attended an owners update last h in arizona. It was presented by Hilton. Although I certainly realize that TS sales people are weasels, the Hilton update was by far the most non pressured presentation we have ever attended. We were offered to upgrade to the HGV Max, which we did. However, the sales guy told is there was no reason we needed to make any decision right then and there. Also said that if we didn’t upgrade it was totally fine to keep our ownership exactly as it was and we would continue to enjoy the same benefits that we’ve always enjoyed. We bought the minimum points it took to buy into HGV-Max. We were interested in meeting able to use the Hilton properties. But, never were we told that there was going to be a”massive” increase in MF’s.  We purchased our original DRI here in TUG. We felt that purchasing the additional points at 50%of what they normally sell for was good for our particular needs. You also said you were shown a10 rear projection of MF’s for remaining DRI owners. Did they give you a copy? We were shown nothing like that. Do you know of your presentation we given by a DRI sales snake or by Hilton? The DRI snakes are the worst we’ve ever encountered. The Hilton snake was honestly the easiest and not at all pushy.


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## Mellow (Sep 15, 2022)

Attended a update yesterday in VA. We too were shown the chart with the maintenance fees. Per the chart, the fees over 10 yrs would be 30k which is “why we should convert to Max TODAY”.  It would cost 7k to convert or pay $1695 to hold decision open for 18 months. Asked what would happen if we did nothing. Told our availability would be limited.  Said that since VA previously had limited HGV resorts all DRI resorts would be open to HGV members and we would have a harder time booking as we would be a lower priority. We could stay in our current system.  Just wanted to share what we were told. 
Said no thanks to both.


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## pedro47 (Sep 15, 2022)

Mellow said:


> Attended a update yesterday in VA. We too were shown the chart with the maintenance fees. Per the chart, the fees over 10 yrs would be 30k which is “why we should convert to Max TODAY”.  It would cost 7k to convert or pay $1695 to hold decision open for 18 months. Asked what would happen if we did nothing. Told our availability would be limited.  Said that since VA previously had limited HGV resorts all DRI resorts would be open to HGV members and we would have a harder time booking as we would be a lower priority. We could stay in our current system.  Just wanted to share what we were told.
> Said no thanks to both.


I bet you were @ Greensprings Vacation Resort in Williamsburg,VA.


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## Mellow (Sep 15, 2022)

Exactly!  We’re you fed similar info?


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## pedro47 (Sep 15, 2022)

Mellow said:


> Exactly!  We’re you fed similar info?


No. We have not attended a ts presentation in over 20 years.
Greensprings sales team IMHO only care about one things and that is making a sale.
If their lips were moving it was a lie.


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## pedro47 (Sep 15, 2022)

I hope you did not purchased anything at that high pressure sales meeting.
Rescind!!! ASAP


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## TJALB (Sep 16, 2022)

Mellow said:


> Attended a update yesterday in VA. We too were shown the chart with the maintenance fees. Per the chart, the fees over 10 yrs would be 30k which is “why we should convert to Max TODAY”.  It would cost 7k to convert or pay $1695 to hold decision open for 18 months. Asked what would happen if we did nothing. Told our availability would be limited.  Said that since VA previously had limited HGV resorts all DRI resorts would be open to HGV members and we would have a harder time booking as we would be a lower priority. We could stay in our current system.  Just wanted to share what we were told.
> Said no thanks to both.


I’m curious, where did you attend your update?  Was it at a DRI property or did you attend an update by invitation specifically from Hilton?  It sounds like you more than likely attended a update meeting at one of the DRI resorts with a DRI weasel.  The update we attended was with a Hilton representative.  Our presentation sounds nothing like what you described.  We we not threatened with massive increases in maintenance fees.  We were not asked for a payment to hold our discussion/decision making option open for 18 months.  That sounds totally bazar!  We were offered the option to join the Hilton Max.  But, we were told that if we don’t want to convert we would continue using our membership as we always have.  We were also encouraged “not” to make a decision right there on the spot.  Our ”Hilton” salesperson told us there was no rush to make a decision.  They said they didn’t know how long the discounted fee to convert to Max would be available but, it should remain available for quite sometime.  
So, our presentation was entirely different to yours.  
Hope to soon hear who your presenter was.


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## pedro47 (Sep 16, 2022)

TJALB said:


> I’m curious, where did you attend your update?  Was it at a DRI property or did you attend an update by invitation specifically from Hilton?  It sounds like you more than likely attended a update meeting at one of the DRI resorts with a DRI weasel.  The update we attended was with a Hilton representative.  Our presentation sounds nothing like what you described.  We we not threatened with massive increases in maintenance fees.  We were not asked for a payment to hold our discussion/decision making option open for 18 months.  That sounds totally bazar!  We were offered the option to join the Hilton Max.  But, we were told that if we don’t want to convert we would continue using our membership as we always have.  We were also encouraged “not” to make a decision right there on the spot.  Our ”Hilton” salesperson told us there was no rush to make a decision.  They said they didn’t know how long the discounted fee to convert to Max would be available but, it should remain available for quite sometime.
> So, our presentation was entirely different to yours.
> Hope to soon hear who your presenter was.


I liked reading about your Hilton sales presentation. What a huge difference in the Hilton approach.


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## dayooper (Sep 16, 2022)

Mellow said:


> Attended a update yesterday in VA. We too were shown the chart with the maintenance fees. Per the chart, the fees over 10 yrs would be 30k which is “why we should convert to Max TODAY”.  It would cost 7k to convert or pay $1695 to hold decision open for 18 months. Asked what would happen if we did nothing. Told our availability would be limited.  Said that since VA previously had limited HGV resorts all DRI resorts would be open to HGV members and we would have a harder time booking as we would be a lower priority. We could stay in our current system.  Just wanted to share what we were told.
> Said no thanks to both.



DRI members will still have their current booking windows while HGVMax members can start to book at 6 months. DRI members will still have the 13 or 10 month window and I believe it's Max members that will find the pickings pretty slim. It's little twists in the truth like this that drive me crazy.


pedro47 said:


> I liked reading about your Hilton sales presentation. What a huge difference in the Hilton approach.



Not all Hilton reps are like that. There are good salespeople and not so good salespeople. Looks like @TJALB got a good one.


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## goaliedave (Sep 16, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond owners beware!
> Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:
> 
> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.
> ...


This is the basic pitch scenario of all brands for decades.


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## pedro47 (Sep 16, 2022)

Hilton, IMHO selected the best DRI Resorts where there were no Hilton Timeshare Resorts in their market areas; except in Orlando, Fl.


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## Mellow (Sep 16, 2022)

Lol. We DID NOT purchase anything, and don’t have any desire to toss more money in the black hole of timesharing.  However, thanks for the warning….if I only knew about this site and you kind folks 18 yrs ago!


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## winger (Sep 18, 2022)

chapjim said:


> How massive is MASSIVE?


"Really Massive, like as massive as you have eva seen !"


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## dayooper (Sep 18, 2022)

winger said:


> "Really Massive, like as massive as you have eva seen !"



Were talking Baby Got Back intro big!


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## Duh (Sep 19, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond owners beware!
> Hilton is pitching the following to diamond owners:
> 
> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.
> ...



Just more of a reason to walk away. I promised the wife we would stay though 2023 but if 2024 gets even worse with availability AND they jack up the maint fees, I have permission to just flip Hilton off and drop my Diamond points somewhere along the road. Hilton can come pick them up if they want.


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## Duh (Sep 19, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> Nothing new. As has been written a dozen times here, Diamond owners best stand pat so as to maintain current benefits. Its a lower class customer than HGVC so no interest in upgrading.



So you are saying that Diamond owners are "lower class customers" than HGVC owners??


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 19, 2022)

chapjim said:


> How massive is MASSIVE?





90_Min_Sales_Pitch said:


> Massively Massive!!


If other TS companies  are able to turn the dial on their increases to 10, HGVC will be able to go all the way to 11, to get that extra bit they need to go over the top.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 19, 2022)

epearsall said:


> 1. Non Hilton diamond owners may be  facing a massive increase in maintenance charges.  their "logic" is that as Diamond owners migrate to Hilton there will be few and fewer diamond owners to share the maintenance costs.   They show a "10 year projection" of maintenance coast increases that makes the price of converting to HGV seem like a good deal.  the problem is that these increase projcetions are MASSIVE.   However the conversion cost is equally MASSIVE.


We heard that same pitch when Sunterra created the Hawaii trust for Point at Poipu and Kaanapali Beach Club - as owners migrated to the Trust, there would be fewer deeded owners at the resort to pay operating expenses. 

It was quite impressive when our salesman made the pitch; like the best comedians, he pulled it off with a totally straight face.


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## goaliedave (Sep 19, 2022)

Duh said:


> So you are saying that Diamond owners are "lower class customers" than HGVC owners??


Yes of course, that's why HGVC didn't let Diamond members in. HVC is the newly created Hilton entry level for Diamond clients. This was all in the original press releases.


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## winger (Sep 19, 2022)

Duh said:


> So you are saying that Diamond owners are "lower class customers" than HGVC owners??


Who bought who? And I couldn't believe that garbage from the DRI CEO video early on when he declared this new partnership (or similar, I forget the exact words) was going to be great for everyone blah blah blah


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## Duh (Sep 19, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> Yes of course, that's why HGVC didn't let Diamond members in. HVC is the newly created Hilton entry level for Diamond clients. This was all in the original press releases.



Do you hear yourself? So you think someone who only happened to purchase HGVC instead of Diamond is a higher class person? Do you hold your pinky out while typing such garbage?


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## goaliedave (Sep 19, 2022)

Duh said:


> Do you hear yourself? So you think someone who only happened to purchase HGVC instead of Diamond is a higher class person? Do you hold your pinky out while typing such garbage?


I said customers, not persons. HVC was made to target the lower class of facilities and customers from Diamond with a cheaper product.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 19, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> I said customers, not persons. HVC was made to target the lower class of facilities and customers from Diamond with a cheaper product.


Yeah - that was clear from the beginning.  HGV saw Diamond as an opportunity to extend their portfolio with a lower price, more "entry point" option.


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## goaliedave (Sep 20, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yeah - that was clear from the beginning.  HGV saw Diamond as an opportunity to extend their portfolio with a lower price, more "entry point" option.


Exactly. And as others have posted here, best option for most Diamond owners is not buy into MAX etc, just keep on keeping on with our 3 star resorts.


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## SmithOp (Sep 20, 2022)

Duh said:


> Just more of a reason to walk away. I promised the wife we would stay though 2023 but if 2024 gets even worse with availability AND they jack up the maint fees, I have permission to just flip Hilton off and drop my Diamond points somewhere along the road. Hilton can come pick them up if they want.


Well you purchased for a reason and you should be able to continue using your points like that. Hilton fee increases have been reasonable in the past to maintain quality of the resorts, don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

If you must divest, consider the TUG Bargain Deals giveaway forum.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## Duh (Sep 20, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> I said customers, not persons. HVC was made to target the lower class of facilities and customers from Diamond with a cheaper product.



Please, of please, provide the definition of a "customer" then if not a person. Are pigs buying timeshares now? Maybe snakes?? 

You know exactly full well what you or anyone who says such a thing, are implying. Hilton owners are one of the biggest reasons I refuse to upgrade to HGV Max. Bunch of uppity youknowwhats.


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## Duh (Sep 20, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yeah - that was clear from the beginning.  HGV saw Diamond as an opportunity to extend their portfolio with a lower price, more "entry point" option.



No. Hilton's priority was to gain access to several markets they did not have access to and could never afford to start fresh in those areas. No different than Diamond's purchases over the years.


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## Duh (Sep 20, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> Well you purchased for a reason and you should be able to continue using your points like that. Hilton fee increases have been reasonable in the past to maintain quality of the resorts, don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
> 
> If you must divest, consider the TUG Bargain Deals giveaway forum.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk



Yes, I purchased for a reason 33 years ago. And up until the Hilton takeover, it has worked well. Now, rules are changing, availability is less (even without Hilton owners having access yet, and it just isn't the value it used to be. And there is no point in putting it in the Bargain area as we all know Diamond resale points are worth a hoot given the restrictions Diamond puts on dirty points.


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## dayooper (Sep 20, 2022)

Duh said:


> Please, of please, provide the definition of a "customer" then if not a person. Are pigs buying timeshares now? Maybe snakes??
> 
> You know exactly full well what you or anyone who says such a thing, are implying. Hilton owners are one of the biggest reasons I refuse to upgrade to HGV Max. Bunch of uppity youknowwhats.



Eh, this whole is kinda blown out of proportion. The difference between HGVC and HVC is about a yearly income of $20,000 and 30 points on their credit score. 

BTW - I would most definitely be in the HVC category if I were to buy retail.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 20, 2022)

Duh said:


> No. Hilton's priority was to gain access to several markets they did not have access to and could never afford to start fresh in those areas. No different than Diamond's purchases over the years.


Isn't that the same as "exentding their portfolio"?  Their existing portfolio didn't have an offering in the price/value range occupied by DRI. Acquire Diamond and they now have a broader range of options.  HGVC actually presented graphics illustrating that exact point.


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## pedro47 (Sep 20, 2022)

Hilton objectives were acquired a present where there were no Hilton timeshare resorts and to add maybe 10% t0 30% of Diamond owners to their club programs.

Hilton, Marriott's, Holiday Inn, Westgate or Wyndham could not & can not afford to build new resorts; where are these Diamond Resorts are located. IMHO

Hilton would be in big trouble if 50% of Diamond owners brought into their program and all these new owners wanted to travel;  as an example to Hawaii at the same time. IMHO

Food for Thought.


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## goaliedave (Sep 20, 2022)

Duh said:


> Please, of please, provide the definition of a "customer" then if not a person. Are pigs buying timeshares now? Maybe snakes??
> 
> You know exactly full well what you or anyone who says such a thing, are implying. Hilton owners are one of the biggest reasons I refuse to upgrade to HGV Max. Bunch of uppity youknowwhats.


Man someone p*ss in your coffee? Just go listen / read the original materials. Diamond is 3 star, a lower class of customer than Hilton. It's much cheaper to buy HVC than HGVC. Like Ford customers are a lower class than Rolls Royce customers. An entry level business course can explain the concept of customer stratification.


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## SmithOp (Sep 20, 2022)

Duh said:


> Yes, I purchased for a reason 33 years ago. And up until the Hilton takeover, it has worked well. Now, rules are changing, availability is less (even without Hilton owners having access yet, and it just isn't the value it used to be. And there is no point in putting it in the Bargain area as we all know Diamond resale points are worth a hoot given the restrictions Diamond puts on dirty points.


I'm surprised you are seeing changes already, the takeover as you call it has barely started. Most of us here are wait and see, not interested in Max.

As for the disagreement with this other person, it's best to ignore some of the argumentative GOFs (grumpy old f*rts) here, he is already on my ignore list. As Twain said, never wrestle with a pig – it gets mud all over you and the pig likes it.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## epearsall (Sep 21, 2022)

chapjim said:


> How massive is MASSIVE?


$35000


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## epearsall (Sep 21, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> I liked reading about your Hilton sales presentation. What a huge difference in the Hilton approach.


Pitch was at Diamond Mystic dunes in Orlando, by staff who purported to be Hilton, althou I think they may have been Diamond weasels with a new employer


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## epearsall (Sep 21, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> This is clearly totally illogical as there will never be "fewer" Diamond "owners" as all points in each trust are owned by someone.  The only risk is if more "owners" default causing bad debt (which must be absorbed by the remaining owners unless/until paid).  As such, either a) these supposed migrations would need to be owners who retain their Diamond points and acquire HGVC points and then default on their Diamond maintenance fees; or b) these supposed migrations sell back their points in order to buy HGVC points...in which case HGV is on the hook for the maintenance fees.


there would be fewer diamond owners if a lot upgraded to HGCV, that's their argument.


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## Duh (Sep 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Eh, this whole is kinda blown out of proportion. The difference between HGVC and HVC is about a yearly income of $20,000 and 30 points on their credit score.
> 
> BTW - I would most definitely be in the HVC category if I were to buy retail.



Are you serious? You have facts in writing to back up this kind of claim? BTW, my credit score is 835 currently so it would be rather hard to go 30 points above that and while some may not consider me rich, I have no debt whatsoever and have a $400k house I paid cash to have built. This elitism by Hilton owners is exactly what I'm talking about.


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## Duh (Sep 21, 2022)

winger said:


> Who bought who? And I couldn't believe that garbage from the DRI CEO video early on when he declared this new partnership (or similar, I forget the exact words) was going to be great for everyone blah blah blah



And yet just a year or two earlier it was the other way around with Hilton owners crying. But at no time did Diamond owners think their crap didn't stick and were better than Hilton owners. I see that is not the case here.


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## Duh (Sep 21, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> Man someone p*ss in your coffee? Just go listen / read the original materials. Diamond is 3 star, a lower class of customer than Hilton. It's much cheaper to buy HVC than HGVC. Like Ford customers are a lower class than Rolls Royce customers. An entry level business course can explain the concept of customer stratification.



Yea, you and your ilk have pissed me off with your elitist BS. While HGVC resort "may" (operative word is "may") have somewhat nicer resorts, that in no way, shape, fashion, or form concludes that Hiltons owners are a better class of people than Diamond owners. You show who are the real lowlifes here Mr Howell.


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## Duh (Sep 21, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I'm surprised you are seeing changes already, the takeover as you call it has barely started. Most of us here are wait and see, not interested in Max.
> 
> As for the disagreement with this other person, it's best to ignore some of the argumentative GOFs (grumpy old f*rts) here, he is already on my ignore list. As Twain said, never wrestle with a pig – it gets mud all over you and the pig likes it.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk



Yes, there have been changes made already.

Cannot book an 84 night reservation anymore. Max is 29 nights.
For those who have converted to Max, they have already lost their ability to upgrade.
Availability issues, even at 13 months out. Someone is monkeying with the system.
For a time, upgrades, free Platinum RPP, and DPs were lost, now they are back again for Legacy owners. For how long??

I think I would like to visit a Hilton resort now just so I could take a dump in their pool just to show them how low class some Diamond owners can be when pissed off with their BS.


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## Snowonbeach (Sep 21, 2022)

This discussion is really deteriorating.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 21, 2022)

I see that you are upset. Why don't you contact HGVC about your concerns rather than taking it out on other owners?


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## chapjim (Sep 21, 2022)

epearsall said:


> $35000



That'll do!

They have to be kidding!  Did you ask the guy if he was going to be there all week?


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## winger (Sep 21, 2022)

Duh said:


> And yet just a year or two earlier it was the other way around with Hilton owners crying. But at no time did Diamond owners think their crap didn't stick and were better than Hilton owners. I see that is not the case here.


I don't like your use of double negatives, I can't follow with certainty. Now, if you are claiming Diamond owners always felt they were better than Hilton owners, you are wrong. I know because I never once thought this.


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## goaliedave (Sep 21, 2022)

Duh said:


> Yea, you and your ilk have pissed me off with your elitist BS. While HGVC resort "may" (operative word is "may") have somewhat nicer resorts, that in no way, shape, fashion, or form concludes that Hiltons owners are a better class of people than Diamond owners. You show who are the real lowlifes here Mr Howell.


HGCV is a higher class product attracting a higher class of customer than Diamond. Similar to Rolls Royce vs Chevrolet. People of all customer classes are happy that's why most don't need to upgrade.


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## dayooper (Sep 22, 2022)

Duh said:


> Are you serious? You have facts in writing to back up this kind of claim? BTW, my credit score is 835 currently so it would be rather hard to go 30 points above that and while some may not consider me rich, I have no debt whatsoever and have a $400k house I paid cash to have built. This elitism by Hilton owners is exactly what I'm talking about.



I’m sorry, I said that wrong. The average HGVC customer has an average yearly income of $20,000 more and an average credit score 20 points greater. Those are the facts from HGVC themselves. They took that from the credit applications from those that took a loan out to purchase. When the merger happened, it was said the the level of accommodations of HVC (former DRI) was upscale and HGVC was upper upscale. Hilton Club is Luxury. That's what I meant. If you took that wrong, than I apologize.


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## Duh (Sep 22, 2022)

winger said:


> I don't like your use of double negatives, I can't follow with certainty. Now, if you are claiming Diamond owners always felt they were better than Hilton owners, you are wrong. I know because I never once thought this.



That is the exact opposite of what I said. Diamond owners haven never felt they were better than Hilton owners. Proof is in the pudding in this thread that the opposite is true of what Hilton owners think.


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## Duh (Sep 22, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> HGCV is a higher class product attracting a higher class of customer than Diamond. Similar to Rolls Royce vs Chevrolet. People of all customer classes are happy that's why most don't need to upgrade.



It's a wonder you can even function in life thinking such generalist statements are even close to being true. You have proven the opposite to be true here.


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## Duh (Sep 22, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I’m sorry, I said that wrong. The average HGVC customer has an average yearly income of $20,000 more and an average credit score 20 points greater. Those are the facts from HGVC themselves. They took that from the credit applications from those that took a loan out to purchase. When the merger happened, it was said the the level of accommodations of HVC (former DRI) was upscale and HGVC was upper upscale. Hilton Club is Luxury. That's what I meant. If you took that wrong, than I apologize.



You know, one thing I have learned in life is that it doesn't matter what anyone makes, it all boils down to what they spend. I know many people who make 6 figure salaries and are in debt up to their eyeballs because they are always trying to keep up with the Jones' or just can't mange money worth a crap. Others make 5 figure salaries and have no debt whatsoever and tidy retirement accounts. What someone's income is doesn't mean a hoot as to how financially stable they are. As for average credit scores, I would love to know how they legally came across that information? I know I have made all of my Diamond purchases in cash so my credit score was never pulled so I can tell you for sure, the numbers they tossed out sounds like a used car salesman pitch......and about as accurate.

Personally speaking, I'm done with this thread. The elitist mentality of some of the Hilton owners here make me want to puke and if I was ever on the fence as to whether to upgrade to Max or not, I can tell you now, I most certainly will not! I would never want to meet these people at a Hilton resort.....or anywhere else in life.


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## goaliedave (Sep 22, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I’m sorry, I said that wrong. The average HGVC customer has an average yearly income of $20,000 more and an average credit score 20 points greater. Those are the facts from HGVC themselves. They took that from the credit applications from those that took a loan out to purchase. When the merger happened, it was said the the level of accommodations of HVC (former DRI) was upscale and HGVC was upper upscale. Hilton Club is Luxury. That's what I meant. If you took that wrong, than I apologize.


No amount of clarification will educate Duh.


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## goaliedave (Sep 22, 2022)

Duh said:


> You know, one thing I have learned in life is that it doesn't matter what anyone makes, it all boils down to what they spend. I know many people who make 6 figure salaries and are in debt up to their eyeballs because they are always trying to keep up with the Jones' or just can't mange money worth a crap. Others make 5 figure salaries and have no debt whatsoever and tidy retirement accounts. What someone's income is doesn't mean a hoot as to how financially stable they are. As for average credit scores, I would love to know how they legally came across that information? I know I have made all of my Diamond purchases in cash so my credit score was never pulled so I can tell you for sure, the numbers they tossed out sounds like a used car salesman pitch......and about as accurate.
> 
> Personally speaking, I'm done with this thread. The elitist mentality of some of the Hilton owners here make me want to puke and if I was ever on the fence as to whether to upgrade to Max or not, I can tell you now, I most certainly will not! I would never want to meet these people at a Hilton resort.....or anywhere else in life.


We humble  and open Diamond owners must stick together!


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## SeattleAl (Sep 23, 2022)

I stayed at HGVC Flamingo during Labor Day week on a Dex exchange and never heard from the Hilton people inviting me to a presentation.

I'm going to Point at Poipu next week, and got the call from "HONOLULU". They left a voice mail on my landline and then called my cellphone. It was obvious who it was.
After hemming and hawing a bit, they invited me to a presentation to explain the new stuff.  I told them I was on TUGBBS and knew a lot about HGV Max from the discussions here.
Plus, I lost a lot of money in the stock market and didn't have a lot of money to blow on a timeshare program of dubious benefit to me. Why do I need to explain this stuff to them every time I go to a Diamond property?

I expect them to try again when I get there. As far as I can tell, their new "gentler" approach isn't much different than the old approach.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 23, 2022)

SeattleAl said:


> I stayed at HGVC Flamingo during Labor Day week on a Dex exchange and never heard from the Hilton people inviting me to a presentation.
> 
> I'm going to Point at Poipu next week, and got the call from "HONOLULU". They left a voice mail on my landline and then called my cellphone. It was obvious who it was.
> After hemming and hawing a bit, they invited me to a presentation to explain the new stuff.  I told them I was on TUGBBS and knew a lot about HGV Max from the discussions here.
> ...


Our experiences at Point at Poipu - 

About five years ago - pre HGVC - as existing owners we were routed to a different sales team.  Time obligations was reduced to 60 minutes, and the pitch was much more low key than on the main sales floor.  

In August of this year, the entire DRI sales force appears to have been completely replaced. The person we met with had come from Marriott, and it was obvious that he wasn't nearly up to speed on the system.  Presentation was still decidedly low key (aka, no pressure).  

The main focus of the sales presentation was oriented toward getting involved with HGVMAX. They presented two main points of entry in to HGVMAX.  One was to simply buy some points in HGVMAX.  The other was to buy a resale deed and link that with HGVMAX as an entry point.  For the resale deed option, they showed us a "menu" of currently available resale deeds - we identified two deeds from the list that seemed to make the most sense for us to consider (purchase price, number of points, and current annual feesEach deed option had a specific point value, purchase price,  and current annual fee.

They had no problem with us taking the information and spending several days researching and looking things over - with the caveat that transactions that involved purchasing a resale deed were linked to the availability of that deed.  So if we came back several days later and someone else had purchased that deed, then those particulars would no longer be available.

the only element of more pressured sale was that HGVC used the classic ruse of directing us to another person for a "QA" review of the sales presentation, which was just a ruse to try to sell us "Discovery Package" of points, good for 18 months at a specific set or resorts.  That was a wrinkle that Diamond didn't use with existing owners. (I know DRI pushed that heavily on the non-owner sales floor.)  We ended up purchasing the package, because the resorts that were listed included ones that we were likely to use, and the purchase price penciled out as compared with renting a unit or buying hotel room accommodations at those areas.


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## magmue (Sep 24, 2022)

> ... two main points of entry in to HGVMAX.  One was to simply buy some points in HGVMAX.


Do you mean buy some developer points in HGV/formerly-DRI? How many points at what price point did they pitch to include HGVMAX?


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## flyguy (Sep 26, 2022)

TJALB said:


> Where did you get your information? I attended an owners update last h in arizona. It was presented by Hilton. Although I certainly realize that TS sales people are weasels, the Hilton update was by far the most non pressured presentation we have ever attended. We were offered to upgrade to the HGV Max, which we did. However, the sales guy told is there was no reason we needed to make any decision right then and there. Also said that if we didn’t upgrade it was totally fine to keep our ownership exactly as it was and we would continue to enjoy the same benefits that we’ve always enjoyed. We bought the minimum points it took to buy into HGV-Max. We were interested in meeting able to use the Hilton properties. But, never were we told that there was going to be a”massive” increase in MF’s.  We purchased our original DRI here in TUG. We felt that purchasing the additional points at 50%of what they normally sell for was good for our particular needs. You also said you were shown a10 rear projection of MF’s for remaining DRI owners. Did they give you a copy? We were shown nothing like that. Do you know of your presentation we given by a DRI sales snake or by Hilton? The DRI snakes are the worst we’ve ever encountered. The Hilton snake was honestly the easiest and not at all pushy.


Regarding the minimum number of point required to move to HGV Max, we were offered 3,000 at $4 per point and on a Diamond Facebook site, a person indicated that 2500 points was offered and at the $4 price.  Having that information might be of interest to someone attending an "update."


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 26, 2022)

flyguy said:


> Regarding the minimum number of point required to move to HGV Max, we were offered 3,000 at $4 per point and on a Diamond Facebook site, a person indicated that 2500 points was offered and at the $4 price.  Having that information might be of interest to someone attending an "update."


At Point at Poipu in August, we were offered a 2500 points ownership in the HGVMax trust.  I don't recall the exact price per point, but it would have been pretty close to $4 per point.


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## Dollie (Sep 29, 2022)

Just came home from 2 weeks in AZ.  Part of the first week was at Kohl's Ranch, a timeshare still under Diamond.  No mention at all about an update.  Then 1 week at Sedona Summit, now a Hilton.

*Phone call before arrival at Sedona Summit: * Started off pleasant; she asked about any room requests; I said I wanted an upper floor unit which we got. Then she asked if I would sign up for a Hilton update.  They would take us to a wine tasting and dinner on Friday night and then an hour-long update would be on Saturday.  I said no thank you.  Then she started in about not having been to an update since 2009 and how I must have had a bad experience with Diamond to not do one since then.  (This is not true, we just were no longer interested in the “gifts/incentives” and spending our vacation time in their meeting.  We preferred to get our information from the Meet the Manger meeting at our home resort and TUG).  She went on about how Hilton’s update was low pressure.  She went on about our maintenance fees going up 14% (I track our maintenance fees and they have not gone up that much).  She wouldn’t take No for an answer.  When she started to say, “You know what my mother always said”, I said I’m ending this call, good night, and hung up.

*Check in at Sedona Summit:*  Went up to the desk and was told I was scheduled for a VIP checking.  I was moved to a different person.  He started the normal check in.  Then another woman came over and started in the same as the person on the phone call, harassing me as far as I’m concerned.  On and on until I finally said just give me my keys.

I have never had a check in like this with Diamond or for that matter at any other resort.  For all Hilton’s talk about being low pressure, their check in was by far the worst.


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## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2022)

Dollie said:


> Just came home from 2 weeks in AZ. Part of the first week was at Kohl's Ranch, a timeshare still under Diamond. No mention at all about an update. Then 1 week at Sedona Summit, now a Hilton.
> 
> *Phone call before arrival at Sedona Summit: * Started off pleasant; she asked about any room requests; I said I wanted an upper floor unit which we got. Then she asked if I would sign up for a Hilton update. They would take us to a wine tasting and dinner on Friday night and then an hour-long update would be on Saturday. I said no thank you. Then she started in about not having been to an update since 2009 and how I must have had a bad experience with Diamond to not do one since then. (This is not true, we just were no longer interested in the “gifts/incentives” and spending our vacation time in their meeting. We preferred to get our information from the Meet the Manger meeting at our home resort and TUG). She went on about how Hilton’s update was low pressure. She went on about our maintenance fees going up 14% (I track our maintenance fees and they have not gone up that much). She wouldn’t take No for an answer. When she started to say, “You know what my mother always said”, I said I’m ending this call, good night, and hung up.
> 
> ...


I think those are still the DRI employees, just taken over as Hilton now.

I has that same experience at Summit when I stayed a few years ago. I also spoke with some people at the pool that attended a presentation and said it was terrible high pressure and lies about giving up their deed to get points because they wouldn't be able to trade 

I've never had a bad experience at a true HGV presentation, at least not one I could easily talk my way out of. I've been HGV owner over 20 yrs.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Talent312 (Oct 3, 2022)

Duh said:


> While HGVC resort "may" (operative word is "may") have somewhat nicer resorts, that in no way, shape, fashion, or form concludes that Hiltons owners are a better class of people than Diamond owners.



As a HGVC owner, I concur.
DRI-HVC has it's unwashed masses, and so does HGVC.
Yet, we dwell in the shadow of "by Hilton Club" elitists.
We could all need showers to rinse off the 'tudes.
.


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## winger (Oct 5, 2022)

Dollie said:


> Just came home from 2 weeks in AZ.  Part of the first week was at Kohl's Ranch, a timeshare still under Diamond.  No mention at all about an update.  Then 1 week at Sedona Summit, now a Hilton.
> 
> *Phone call before arrival at Sedona Summit: * Started off pleasant; she asked about any room requests; I said I wanted an upper floor unit which we got. Then she asked if I would sign up for a Hilton update.  They would take us to a wine tasting and dinner on Friday night and then an hour-long update would be on Saturday.  I said no thank you.  Then she started in about not having been to an update since 2009 and how I must have had a bad experience with Diamond to not do one since then.  (This is not true, we just were no longer interested in the “gifts/incentives” and spending our vacation time in their meeting.  We preferred to get our information from the Meet the Manger meeting at our home resort and TUG).  She went on about how Hilton’s update was low pressure.  She went on about our maintenance fees going up 14% (I track our maintenance fees and they have not gone up that much).  She wouldn’t take No for an answer.  When she started to say, “You know what my mother always said”, I said I’m ending this call, good night, and hung up.
> 
> ...


Why in the the world are you so nice to them?


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## artringwald (Oct 7, 2022)

The first time they ask by phone or at checkin why I don't go to updates, I say nicely that they ask too many questions and I don't feel like answering questions. The next question they ask, I point out again that I don't like answering questions. The conversation usually ends quickly after that.


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## Arusso (Oct 8, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Hilton, IMHO selected the best DRI Resorts where there were no Hilton Timeshare Resorts in their market areas; except in Orlando, Fl.


Yes, that seems to be the case.  I, like you am familiar with the Williamsburg properties.  In addition, I have also stayed at the Oceanaire in VA Beach as well.  Interestingly, only three of the former DRI resorts in VA (from before the Hilton acquisition) namely, Powhatan, Greensprings and Oceanaire have been rebranded to HVC.  Neither Greensprings nor the other VA Beach properties have yet to be rebranded.  In addition to the property management itself,  it will be just as interesting and even revealing to see if the HGV sales people bring a different approach to the pitch of conversion of DRI benefits to HVC-MAX in the same was as has been reported by Mellow.  Hopefully others sitting for these "owner updates" will report on their experience


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## Arusso (Oct 8, 2022)

Mellow said:


> Lol. We DID NOT purchase anything, and don’t have any desire to toss more money in the black hole of timesharing.  However, thanks for the warning….if I only knew about this site and you kind folks 18 yrs ago!


You can put your name on a list of thousands of people.  Many of us purchased in the pre-internet days and had no idea of what we were really purchasing.  It is almost unconscionable today, despite having access to instantaneous reference material,  how easy it still is today for people to make a large purchase without having full little disclosure. regarding the product purchased.  I totally agree.   Without question, I believe the TUG community is the best resource for consumers.  The experts here have nothing to sell but their knowledge and experience.  Hopefully, TUG will have an even greater impact by reaching more people with the recent launch of the very informative You Tube channel.


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 8, 2022)

[QUOTE="Arusso, post: 2852134, member: 91863"
...only three of the former DRI resorts in VA (from before the Hilton acquisition) namely, Powhatan, *Greenspring*s and Oceanaire *have been rebranded to HVC.*

...Neither *Greenspring*s nor the other VA Beach properties* have yet to be rebranded*.[/QUOTE]

Something amiss?

The Sales Center for both Powatan and Greensprings is one and the same, and always has been. From what were told only two weeks ago, there were many people in sales who were terminated. With the acquisition, DRI no longer exists; eventually everything Diamond owned will become Hilton of some sort or another. "Affiliates" may be a different story.


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## dayooper (Oct 8, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> [QUOTE="Arusso, post: 2852134, member: 91863"
> ...only three of the former DRI resorts in VA (from before the Hilton acquisition) namely, Powhatan, *Greenspring*s and Oceanaire *have been rebranded to HVC.*
> 
> ...Neither *Greenspring*s nor the other VA Beach properties* have yet to be rebranded*.





Not sure all will become HVC. There are some that will be in limbo. They could stay DRI or they can be sold off. Some of the Orlando properties might have that fate.

Affiliates will not be available to HGV Max members, or that’s what has been said.


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## tjnevers (Nov 7, 2022)

Passed on the "Owners update" at our "VIP" check in at the Sedona Ridge Resort. 
My wife stayed in the car because she hates TS presentations. I told the guy that if he wanted to pitch me, it would only be me at the presentation. They balked at that.
We are weeks owners at this resort & use it exclusively for 1 week/year. Bought it resale & never joined DRI points system.
As we were haggling over whether or not they would be agreeable to only pitching me at a presentation, I heard a car alarm horn go off.
After a few long seconds of hearing this alarm, I went outside & sure enough, my wife had accidentally set it off by exiting our locked Jeep.
I figured out how to press the "Panic" button on the Jeep key in my pocket to turn the alarm off. Then I went back into the "VIP" office, grabbed my room keys & "concierge" stuff, muttered: "Gotta go", & got out of there. Later, my wife & I had a good laugh about it. From scanning the posts here, it doesn't look like I missed anything. BTW, the guy who hustled me into the "VIP" check in room said he was a Hilton employee, not DRI, & assured me that I would only be subject to a low key, one hour presentation.


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## artringwald (Nov 7, 2022)

tjnevers said:


> Passed on the "Owners update" at our "VIP" check in at the Sedona Ridge Resort.
> My wife stayed in the car because she hates TS presentations. I told the guy that if he wanted to pitch me, it would only be me at the presentation. They balked at that.
> We are weeks owners at this resort & use it exclusively for 1 week/year. Bought it resale & never joined DRI points system.
> As we were haggling over whether or not they would be agreeable to only pitching me at a presentation, I heard a car alarm horn go off.
> ...


My wife always stays in the car too. I've gone by myself to presentations several times. You never get a perk for attending, and the rep never gets credit for giving a presentation. They usually send you to the new guy so he can practice. I stopped going because I never got any useful info from it. 

Don't they always say that things have changed and the presentation will be low key?


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## SmithOp (Nov 7, 2022)

tjnevers said:


> Passed on the "Owners update" at our "VIP" check in at the Sedona Ridge Resort.
> My wife stayed in the car because she hates TS presentations. I told the guy that if he wanted to pitch me, it would only be me at the presentation. They balked at that.
> We are weeks owners at this resort & use it exclusively for 1 week/year. Bought it resale & never joined DRI points system.
> As we were haggling over whether or not they would be agreeable to only pitching me at a presentation, I heard a car alarm horn go off.
> ...



You and the wife did the right thing, and are savvy not to have fallen victim to the sales staff at Ridge.

I have stayed there several times, really like the resort and area. I’ve always managed to get cheap stays through Interval. I’ve had many hot tub chats with owners about how agressive the sales staff are there, and at Summit. Just because they now work for HGV does not mean their tactics have changed.

Keeping to deeded ownership is the smart move, you avoided paying to “upgrade” to DRI points, and now the same with DRI Max, well done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## chapjim (Nov 23, 2022)

Went to a presentation at Tuscany Village this noon.  We are Diamond owners and are staying at Grande Villas.  The first thing the sales person said was that we shouldn't be there, that Hilton didn't want to talk to Diamond owners yet, not until after January.  (News to us -- we've been to two Hilton presentations since mid-summer.)

This salesman was the most arrogant, obnoxious person we've seen in ages in any setting.  The pitch was familiar -- Diamond owners either had to upgrade or lose out to decreasing availability as Diamond convertees to Hilton would be able to book Diamond resorts but Diamond owners wou;dn't be able to book Hilton resorts.  Also, maintenance fees would be going sky high.  I told him I had heard that before but doubted it would be a big problem.

We told him we had stayed at Grand Beach and liked it.  He stuck up his nose and sneered, "That's Diamond."

He had a slide on a monitor with three columns -- Hilton, HGVMax, and Diamond, left to right, that purported to show the migration to HGV Max.  I told him I had some familiarity with HGVMax and didn't see anything that was worth the money.   He reared up and said, "I haven't offered you HGVMax!"

I pulled out some sheets I had printed before we left home that showed sales listings at HGVC SeaWorld (5.800 points for $500; 8,000 points for $1,000) and Tuscany Village (9,280 points for $1,000; 8,000 points for $950).  He sniffed and said, "Those are rentals.")  I tried to explain these were reputable internet sales people and that rental listings don't have anything about annual, biennial-even, etc.)  He got up and walked out saying. "I'm not going to sit here and argue with you."  I told him to stick it.

We were then sent to meet with someone to do a "survey."  We've been through this before and in no sense was it a survey.  It was an attempt to sell us an introductory package -- 11,520 points for some amount of money.  I told the lady that it sounded like the same thing we had actually purchased at a preview center in Virginia Beach a couple of months ago but we had rescinded immediately upon reading the contract.  The salesman there flat out lied to us.

The lady said we were not eligible to purchase the introductory package because we had already bought once and took us to gifting.  Worst presentation ever.


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## pedro47 (Nov 24, 2022)

chapjim said:


> Went to a presentation at Tuscany Village this noon.  We are Diamond owners and are staying at Grande Villas.  The first thing the sales person said was that we shouldn't be there, that Hilton didn't want to talk to Diamond owners yet, not until after January.  (News to us -- we've been to two Hilton presentations since mid-summer.)
> 
> This salesman was the most arrogant, obnoxious person we've seen in ages in any setting.  The pitch was familiar -- Diamond owners either had to upgrade or lose out to decreasing availability as Diamond convertees to Hilton would be able to book Diamond resorts but Diamond owners wou;dn't be able to book Hilton resorts.  Also, maintenance fees would be going sky high.  I told him I had heard that before but doubted it would be a big problem.
> 
> ...


Wow! That salesperson needs to be reported to someone in Hilton Corporate office.


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