# New DVC Resort adjacent to Disneyland Hotel



## travelhacker (Nov 22, 2019)

I don't own Disney, so I don't follow the DVC forum very closely, but thought I'd pass this along in case this is news:

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...-timeshare-project-next-to-anaheim-disneyland


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## littlestar (Nov 22, 2019)

Yeah, big news.  Surprised me when I read it on one of my Disney sites. It is next to impossible to book Grand California DVC if you don’t own there so these extra units should help.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 22, 2019)

Interesting. Given how fast VGC sold and how much it appreciated on the resale market after sell-out I expect this will sell fast. However, given how much bigger than VGC it is it I doubt it will retain value like VGC has. It probably will also loosen up availability at Disneyland. I may have to buy some SSR points if the chart for this is reasonable.


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## frank808 (Nov 23, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Interesting. Given how fast VGC sold and how much it appreciated on the resale market after sell-out I expect this will sell fast. However, given how much bigger than VGC it is it I doubt it will retain value like VGC has. It probably will also loosen up availability at Disneyland. I may have to buy some SSR points if the chart for this is reasonable.


It took a little over 2 years to sell out VGC.  It was by no means quick.  In 2008 I thought it was weird when VGC with discounts was cheaper per point than BLT.  I thought it shouldn't be as VGC was the only DVC at Disneyland.  

You cannot book at Riviera with resale points bought after Jan of this year.  I am pretty sure that the new Disneyland DVC will not be bookable with resale points bought after Jan 2019. 

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## AnnaS (Nov 23, 2019)

Exciting news for many I am sure.  Heres hoping the price per point and points per night won't be ridiculous and the spread out of villa sizes/count is reasonable (so many studios, 1BDR, etc.).


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## bizaro86 (Nov 23, 2019)

frank808 said:


> It took a little over 2 years to sell out VGC.  It was by no means quick.  In 2008 I thought it was weird when VGC with discounts was cheaper per point than BLT.  I thought it shouldn't be as VGC was the only DVC at Disneyland.
> 
> You cannot book at Riviera with resale points bought after Jan of this year.  I am pretty sure that the new Disneyland DVC will not be bookable with resale points bought after Jan 2019.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk



2008 wasn't exactly a good time to be selling expensive discretionary goods. The price history of that will probably help them sell it.

But the point about no post 2019 resale buyers having access is a very good one. That seems very likely to continue to be the case at new resorts.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 23, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> 2008 wasn't exactly a good time to be selling expensive discretionary goods. The price history of that will probably help them sell it.
> 
> But the point about no post 2019 resale buyers having access is a very good one. That seems very likely to continue to be the case at new resorts.



I'll now be following resale prices at Riviera with interest. I expect it to settle out well below the original dvc just because of the lack of flexibility.

If that happens at the new California one I might just buy there...


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## frank808 (Nov 23, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> 2008 wasn't exactly a good time to be selling expensive discretionary goods. The price history of that will probably help them sell it.



I would tend to agree with everyone as 2008-2010 was the great recession.  The data point to compare, is that BLT, a resort that had 6x or more points sold out in about the same time during the same time period.  Comparing apples to apples, VGC was a slow seller compared to the WDW resorts.  

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## bizaro86 (Nov 23, 2019)

frank808 said:


> I would tend to agree with everyone as 2008-2010 was the great recession.  The data point to compare, is that BLT, a resort that had 6x or more points sold out in about the same time during the same time period.  Comparing apples to apples, VGC was a slow seller compared to the WDW resorts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Interesting! I didn't know that. 

Do you think it would be fair to say the BLT is one of the more desirable locations at Disney World? That is my sense, but I don't follow wdw closely. 

It is worth noting that on resale right now VGC is ~$40-50 per point more than BLT. I suspect that will help with sales quite a bit.


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## chalee94 (Nov 26, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Do you think it would be fair to say the BLT is one of the more desirable locations at Disney World?



A short walk from the Magic Kingdom, so I would agree. (Especially for young families.)


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## Dean (Nov 30, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Interesting! I didn't know that.
> 
> Do you think it would be fair to say the BLT is one of the more desirable locations at Disney World? That is my sense, but I don't follow wdw closely.
> 
> It is worth noting that on resale right now VGC is ~$40-50 per point more than BLT. I suspect that will help with sales quite a bit.


IMO SSR is the best $$$ value followed by BLT, resale of course.  The lower dues and standard view options add significant value to the long term ownership.  Certainly DVC is a specialty product that only makes sense for DVC stays for those that value being on property enough to pay more.


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## DazedandConfused (Dec 1, 2019)

Dean said:


> IMO SSR is the best $$$ value followed by BLT, resale of course.  The lower dues and standard view options add significant value to the long term ownership.  Certainly DVC is a specialty product that only makes sense for DVC stays for those that value being on property enough to pay more.



I agree and believe it or not, Aulani is also a pretty good buy as the resale cost is lower than SSR or BLT.


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## Dean (Dec 1, 2019)

DazedandConfused said:


> I agree and believe it or not, Aulani is also a pretty good buy as the resale cost is lower than SSR or BLT.


Your point, and mine above, assumes one is going to buy DVC.  Personally I don't think Aulani is a good buy unless one both buys resale AND finds subsidized contracts, the dues are simply too much long term IMO.  But all of the assumes one is set on buying DVC and using it at their resorts.  Even then I think it also assumes one will use the points a large % of the time at a park location and/or are set on going to a specific resort.  There are just far too many options for the non park locations and IMO, for 2 of the 3, as good or better options that are cheaper.  And while Aulani is a great resort and as a single resort, arguably the best in the islands, it is limiting as to options.  Even then for WDW, one must at least be OK with the lower tier resorts there (I am but some are not).


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2019)

Well, I know where I will have the kids buy, when the time comes for them to invest.  I actually talked to my daughter-in-law about buying Disney Vacation Club for her and our son and granddaughter.  I advised them to buy Riviera, but I am concerned that the lack of resale benefits would cause that ownership to plummet in value.  With Riviera, if you buy it retail then sell it, the new buyer does not get access to any other resorts but Riviera.  That is probably what they will write into the new contracts for the newest resorts, and that is a concern.  But I don't think anything in Disneyland will lose value.  

I added our daughter to our first Disney resale contract years ago.  She gets the discount AP's.  The second contract I tried to add our son and me, but for whatever reason, his name didn't get on the contract, but Rick's did.  I did something wrong, maybe.  

I stopped buying Disney for a while, and they took the AP discount away from resale.  That caused me to stop buying completely. 500 points is enough, and I see that as an investment and will never sell.  I got them cheap.


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## Dean (Dec 1, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, I know where I will have the kids buy, when the time comes for them to invest.  I actually talked to my daughter-in-law about buying Disney Vacation Club for her and our son and granddaughter.  I advised them to buy Riviera, but I am concerned that the lack of resale benefits would cause that ownership to plummet in value.  With Riviera, if you buy it retail then sell it, the new buyer does not get access to any other resorts but Riviera.  That is probably what they will write into the new contracts for the newest resorts, and that is a concern.  But I don't think anything in Disneyland will lose value.
> 
> I added our daughter to our first Disney resale contract years ago.  She gets the discount AP's.  The second contract I tried to add our son and me, but for whatever reason, his name didn't get on the contract, but Rick's did.  I did something wrong, maybe.
> 
> I stopped buying Disney for a while, and they took the AP discount away from resale.  That caused me to stop buying completely. 500 points is enough, and I see that as an investment and will never sell.  I got them cheap.


While I think it's a good idea to consider an exit strategy, I think it's almost never a good idea buying to sell later.  The only time I think it can be a good idea is if one buys cheap enough to sell in a year or 2 and make enough to make fouling with it worth it.  Therefore if I were going to buy retail and wanted Riviera most of the time I'd likely buy there.  Personally I'd buy resale for SSR or BLT and take my chances I could get in there part of the time but that strategy isn't a good one for others who are less flexible.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2019)

Dean said:


> While I think it's a good idea to consider an exit strategy, I think it's almost never a good idea buying to sell later.  The only time I think it can be a good idea is if one buys cheap enough to sell in a year or 2 and make enough to make fouling with it worth it.  Therefore if I were going to buy retail and wanted Riviera most of the time I'd likely buy there.  Personally I'd buy resale for SSR or BLT and take my chances I could get in there part of the time but that strategy isn't a good one for others who are less flexible.


Well, things happen, and if you don't see it as a devaluation of your purchase, you are turning a blind eye to it.  I don't know why Disney would penalize resale buyers like they are.  It's contrary to everything I have always believed about Disney, and it's a huge turnoff.  

I am disappointed that the benefits of resale have been downgraded as it is, and then they add this to Riviera contracts.


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## Dean (Dec 1, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, things happen, and if you don't see it as a devaluation of your purchase, you are turning a blind eye to it.  I don't know why Disney would penalize resale buyers like they are.  It's contrary to everything I have always believed about Disney, and it's a huge turnoff.
> 
> I am disappointed that the benefits of resale have been downgraded as it is, and then they add this to Riviera contracts.


As I said, I think it's a good idea to think about it but a poor idea to let it drive the show.  If it's that important I'd either not buy or wait a couple of years and see what happens to resale.  In general I would suggest no one ever buy with the intent on resale but I would consider the true underlying value of the purchase.  I don't see it as a big deal but I know some thought Disney was different and not really a timeshare, IMO it's just another good timeshare and one should buy to use it accordingly.  I guess that's one way to look at it, personally I suspected they'd go with a DVC II and only let crossovers happens for those that are qualified which is close to what they have done.  I also feel from a company standpoint they should have instituted restrictions far earlier than they did and likely ones that had more of a real impact that just removing the perks.  Basically by creating a VIP system.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2019)

Dean said:


> As I said, I think it's a good idea to think about it but a poor idea to let it drive the show.  If it's that important I'd either not buy or wait a couple of years and see what happens to resale.  In general I would suggest no one ever buy with the intent on resale but I would consider the true underlying value of the purchase.  I don't see it as a big deal but I know some thought Disney was different and not really a timeshare, IMO it's just another good timeshare and one should buy to use it accordingly.  I guess that's one way to look at it, personally I suspected they'd go with a DVC II and only let crossovers happens for those that are qualified which is close to what they have done.  I also feel from a company standpoint they should have instituted restrictions far earlier than they did and likely ones that had more of a real impact that just removing the perks.  Basically by creating a VIP system.


When you penalize resale, you are penalizing the owner who paid retail.  That is all I am saying.  You have to look at both sides.  Our daughter-in-law would probably love owning Riviera because she loves the luxury of the high-end hotels, and so for her, that would not stop her from buying, but I would still have to bring up the resale side of the equation to help her make a purchase with all of the downsides in mind.  

Too bad more people don't look at all timeshare with that in mind.  I think of the flex options with Vistana and the resale of any timeshare, and I have to weigh the logistics of buying at that price point, knowing the value will go down by so much instantly.  That is why my dad taught me not to buy a new car.


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## ljmiii (Dec 1, 2019)

While people are currently focused on the reduced resale value of Riviera and (if they add the same restrictions) the new Disneyland tower, for me the bigger issue is the coming 11 month reservation frenzy. The rule of thumb is that on average 1/2 of all DVC contracts flip every 10 years.

If you think the competition for prime DVC seasons is intense now just imagine what it will be like when a substantial percentage of owners won't have SSR and OKW to fall back on.  That for resale owners it's either snag the days they need at 11 months or they don't get to go to WDW (or more accurately they have to figure out how to rent out their points to buy back in using cash for the dates they need).  At 10% not so bad but once it passes 25% and then 50% it will be *insane*.  I doubt it will ever hit 90% just because of ROFR...but it will not be pretty.


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## Dean (Dec 1, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> When you penalize resale, you are penalizing the owner who paid retail.  That is all I am saying.  You have to look at both sides.  Our daughter-in-law would probably love owning Riviera because she loves the luxury of the high-end hotels, and so for her, that would not stop her from buying, but I would still have to bring up the resale side of the equation to help her make a purchase with all of the downsides in mind.
> 
> Too bad more people don't look at all timeshare with that in mind.  I think of the flex options with Vistana and the resale of any timeshare, and I have to weigh the logistics of buying at that price point, knowing the value will go down by so much instantly.  That is why my dad taught me not to buy a new car.


I guess I look at it from the other point of view.  A company has the right to push people to retail and as long as they don't mess with contractual options, that's OK.  Otherwise one likely shouldn't own a timeshare at all given the risks and uncertainties and certainly not Marriott, Wyndham, Bluegreen or DVC among others.  But I do agree it's important to consider the options and risks, one the least of which is the resale options IMO.  And if one isn't OK with the risks & commitment, they shouldn't buy even if it makes sense otherwise.  Personally I'm not thinking Riviera will be a difficult reservation most of the time other than possibly certain room times and of course, certain times of the year.


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## Dean (Dec 2, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> While people are currently focused on the reduced resale value of Riviera and (if they add the same restrictions) the new Disneyland tower, for me the bigger issue is the coming 11 month reservation frenzy. The rule of thumb is that on average 1/2 of all DVC contracts flip every 10 years.
> 
> If you think the competition for prime DVC seasons is intense now just imagine what it will be like when a substantial percentage of owners won't have SSR and OKW to fall back on.  That for resale owners it's either snag the days they need at 11 months or they don't get to go to WDW (or more accurately they have to figure out how to rent out their points to buy back in using cash for the dates they need).  At 10% not so bad but once it passes 25% and then 50% it will be *insane*.  I doubt it will ever hit 90% just because of ROFR...but it will not be pretty.


SSR exits in 2054 & OKW in 2057 so we have a while and many of us will not be here to see it.  Regardless the system was always set up where home resort was the main focus even though I know it was marketed differently and many of us bought with different usage in mind.  That's why one needs to be OK with their home resort and one of the reasons I've discouraged people to buy off site mainly to get to WDW.  So anyone who made good choices going in should be OK regardless of the 7 month availability issues but they might not have all of the choices they would prefer.   Those members will be gone also including VB, HH, AKV plus the other 2042 resorts.  The rest other than Riviera will be on their last leg.  So the group that are more likely to be looking for other options routinely be be less as well.  So I don't think it'll be a big deal and it likely will be easier than now because you don't have the lower demand resorts owners in competition.


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## presley (Dec 2, 2019)

I am seriously considering it. I'll have to see if I am still going to DL several times per year when it comes up for sale and if I think the value is there. When I first heard about it, I told my husband that I was for sure going to buy it. After some time to think, I think I might actually be better off paying the $700./ to stay in the hotel at the Grand for the way that I would use it. I never let myself pay $700./night, but it actually probably pencils out better for me to do that.


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## ljmiii (Dec 2, 2019)

Dean said:


> SSR exits in 2054 & OKW in 2057 so we have a while...That's why one needs to be OK with their home resort...Those members will be gone also including VB, HH, AKV plus the other 2042 resorts....So I don't think it'll be a big deal and it likely will be easier than now because you don't have the lower demand resorts owners in competition.


You bring up many good points. I've also been a firm believer in buying where you want to stay which is why I ended up owning at BCV, BLT, and VGC...they are the only places I've ever really wanted to stay (though I stayed at GF, Contemporary, and Poly before I owned DVC). But there just aren't that many rooms in the 2042 resorts - the big hit to the 'original 14' will be in 2054/2057 when SSR, OKW, and AKV expire.

All that said, to me Riviera is different because the competition is at 11 months not 7. And I think the competition - particularly for peak times like early December and the school holidays - will be much more fierce than anything we see now because resale buyers will have no other alternative.

On the other hand, DVD may well decide to give resale buyers a home resort window somewhere between 8 and 10 months - they laid out that possibility quite clearly in Riviera's Public Offering Statement (POS). Which would make Riviera resale contracts close to worthless - great news for direct Riviera owners when they try to make reservations...horrible news when they try to sell.

On the other other hand Riviera's POS (unlike the POS of the DVC resorts through VGC and to a lesser extent through CCV) says they can do anything they like to *any* buyer - direct or resale. So caveat emptor.


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## Dean (Dec 2, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> You bring up many good points. I've also been a firm believer in buying where you want to stay which is why I ended up owning at BCV, BLT, and VGC...they are the only places I've ever really wanted to stay (though I stayed at GF, Contemporary, and Poly before I owned DVC). But there just aren't that many rooms in the 2042 resorts - the big hit to the 'original 14' will be in 2054/2057 when SSR, OKW, and AKV expire.
> 
> All that said, to me Riviera is different because the competition is at 11 months not 7. And I think the competition - particularly for peak times like early December and the school holidays - will be much more fierce than anything we see now because resale buyers will have no other alternative.
> 
> ...


Personally I feel the "buy where you want to stay" is not the correct option for most people but rather "buy where you don't mind staying" is the one I subscribe to.  For someone with specific goals and plans, they may end up being the same answer but I've seen far too many people over the years buy the newest high end option because "they had to have THAT one" then end up preferring a different resort or using points here, there and everywhere.  But that's where good investigation comes in if one also has a good set of experiences to base their decisions on.  

I guess I'm less enthused about Rivera than some are but even GF and VGC have some availability at 7 months or after though I do understand to some degree this will be a new day.  I think it's dramatically unlikely for Riviera to come anywhere near the demand of those resorts.  Personally I'm thinking it'll come in somewhere under BWV/BCV but above SSR, OKW & AKV.  Now if resales at Riviera become a significant portion of the ownership then by default the home resort completion will increase but that's going to be a long time down the road, if ever.  In reality it's always been Caveat Emptor, they're just spelling it out.  The bottom line is everyone who buys there should know what they're getting into, resale or otherwise.  I generally don't subscribe to doomsday theories with timeshares and frankly, the DVC crowd (as a whole) have proven their sheep ready for the slaughter.  Thus I feel the threat's of almost worthless or dramatically reduced resale to have no basis.  YMMV.


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## Finsadbel (Jun 6, 2020)

Just found this article:









						NEW Demolition & Construction for Disneyland Disney Vacation Club Tower! - Inside the Magic
					

A new demolition and construction permit has been posted at the site of the new Disneyland Hotel DVC tower! See what the permit says inside.




					insidethemagic.net
				




With all of the delays, I’m guessing MAYBE 2022!? It’ll be interesting to see pricing on this resort as it seems there is pretty high demand for Grand Californian. We spoke to a DVC Salesperson about BLT recently and they were selling in the $240/point range- higher than Aulani and Riviera.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jun 7, 2020)

Finsadbel said:


> Just found this article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, prices for the new DL DVC will be astounding, I'm sure.

Re BLT, I think the direct price is set to discourage people from buying sold-out resorts retail! DVC wants to sell Riviera and Aulani, not BLT. In any case, if I wanted the blue card (because the AP discount was greater than the retail price premium for my family), buying the minimum required 100 points direct and the remainder resale would be as far as I'd go.


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## Dean (Jun 7, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> Yes, prices for the new DL DVC will be astounding, I'm sure.
> 
> Re BLT, I think the direct price is set to discourage people from buying sold-out resorts retail! DVC wants to sell Riviera and Aulani, not BLT. In any case, if I wanted the blue card (because the AP discount was greater than the retail price premium for my family), buying the minimum required 100 points direct and the remainder resale would be as far as I'd go.


Historically they've held the prices on "sold out" resorts making new resorts cheaper with incentives.  It's only been the last few years they've differentiated the base retail price for any resorts.


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## ljmiii (Jun 8, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> Re BLT, I think the direct price is set to discourage people from buying sold-out resorts retail! DVC wants to sell Riviera and Aulani, not BLT.


I think what we are seeing is simply the result of supply and demand as the (perceived) value of the blue card increases and social media has spread awareness of the ability to buy (almost) any resort direct from DVC.

The Riviera restrictions sharply increased this trend. One of the DVC bloggers who tracks direct sales has seen a threefold increase in sales at sold-out resorts - mainly at OKW (all of which automatically have a 2057 expiration if bought direct).


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## Finsadbel (Jul 18, 2020)

Several different articles on latest news for this resort. 

Here’s one of them:










						Disneyland Nears Green Light for New DVC Tower
					





					www.themeparkinsider.com


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## Finsadbel (Oct 20, 2020)

Anyone know of any updates?


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## HudsHut (Oct 20, 2020)

Disneyland Might Not Reopen Until Next Summer
					

OC Supervisors blame the state’s requirement to lower coronavirus spread in poor areas for keeping Disneyland closed.




					voiceofoc.org


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