# [2012] Possibly Buying into DVC



## PearlCity

Sigh. So I was thinking of buying into Marriott so I could get a getaway by trading into Ko Olina (I live in Hawaii so last minute trades are fine with me).  But looking at what I would use most.. I think Disney.. We go to Disneyland at least once a year and I love Ko Olina.. 

But thoughts--Grand Californian Villas is not very large, how hard is it if it isn't your home resort to get a 2 BR in the Fall (first week of October typically) or Spring Break (2nd or 3rd week of March).  Would it be better to try to buy a Hilton Timeshare and try get a last minute trade on RCI for Ko Olina?

The other thing is right now the kids love Disney, but how long will that last? Would a better bet be buying into Marriott, Hilton or possibly even Worldmark or another major Timeshare company?


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## DazedandConfused

DVC is very expensive and you really need to own at the California location to get what you want at the 11 month window as anything less gets booked up. They only have 50 two bedroom units there.


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## bshmerlie

Disney would be very expensive to get the points you would need for VGC.  I would suggest Worldmark.  They have a lot of locations on the west coast and they are affiliated with RCI so you'd still have a shot at landing a Disney on occasion.


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## brigechols

Ko'Olina is available for exchange through II, not RCI.


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## slum808

I bought a 160 pt VGC contract to use at DL EOY and at Aulani in our off years. That 160 pts will get me 4 nights in a 1 bed room in Oct, but it will take 200 to go in March. I paid $85/ pt so yes it is very expensive ti get into DVC. I'm actually much happier with my Worldmark, of course I haven't yet stayed at VGC. I have stayed at Aulani, while it is nice trading into the Marriott is much cheaper.


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## PearlCity

DazedandConfused said:


> DVC is very expensive and you really need to own at the California location to get what you want at the 11 month window as anything less gets booked up. They only have 50 two bedroom units there.



Sigh.. Good to know.. How Many 1 BR units do they have? That's my minimum requirement for Grand Calfornian.  We typically go in October because of the school Schedule in hawaii and a less amount of crowds. I have had friends in the past check for me and usualy there avaiability about 6 months out.. but less than that the rooms get snapped up.


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## PearlCity

slum808 said:


> I bought a 160 pt VGC contract to use at DL EOY and at Aulani in our off years. That 160 pts will get me 4 nights in a 1 bed room in Oct, but it will take 200 to go in March. I paid $85/ pt so yes it is very expensive ti get into DVC. I'm actually much happier with my Worldmark, of course I haven't yet stayed at VGC. I have stayed at Aulani, while it is nice trading into the Marriott is much cheaper.



Well.. if you ever sell that VGC.. lmk. Lol.  I'd probably not stay in March but rather the other lower season times..... I think I may still look into Worldmark...I guess I need to really keep an eye out for VGC if I want to stay on over there.


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## PearlCity

Question can DVC points still be used for the Disneyland Resort Hotels? Or did that end in 2010?


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## PearlCity

PearlCity said:


> Question can DVC points still be used for the Disneyland Resort Hotels? Or did that end in 2010?



Ahh Never Mind I see that you can't use points bought off the resale market on Disney hotels just points bought from DVC directly.


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## bshmerlie

VGC is the nicest resort at Disneyland.  The rooms are nice although not super high end.  The ambiance of the resort is fantastic. Very Disney.  Nice pool with a water slide.  There is an entrance that leads directly into California Adventure. Proximity to Downtown Disney is another plus.  Its expensive to get to but if you can it is a great resort.


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## alwysonvac

*Offsite options*

When you go to Disneyland do you normally stay onsite? 

Here are some nearby offsite options that may be doable via a RCI or Interval International(II) exchange.
RCI Timeshares Near Disneyland / Anaheim - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137252
II Resorts to consider for the Anaheim, CA area (Disneyland) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114148

Here are some examples of previous offsite availability sighted in RCI & II (NOTE: Must sign in as a TUG member to view)
II: Shell Vacation Club@Peacock Suites - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172246&highlight=disneyland
RCI: Dolphin's Cove - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142406&highlight=disneyland
RCI:WorldMark Anaheim – http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140608&highlight=disneyland
II:Marriott's Newport Coast Villas – http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171903&highlight=newport

Also, keep in mind that as your learn more about timesharing or as your needs change over the years, you can always sell your existing timeshare (of course, depending on what you own) and buy another one. 

For example, I sold most of my Disney points when I learned years ago (from TUG of course ) that it was cheaper to trade into DisneyWorld using WorldMark. Yes, I gave up the ability to call Disney directly to book any dates that I wanted but I was willing to give up that option to take advantage of larger accommodations during my DisneyWorld stay at a much lower cost :whoopie: (NOTE: I can travel anytime during the year).

Good Luck


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## rhonda

PearlCity said:


> I think I may still look into Worldmark...


If it helps any to console you ... we own both DVC and Worldmark and tend to favor WM over DVC.  We've stayed at both Aulani and Grand California.  Yes, they are both very lovely ... but also very pricey.

For our purposes, Worldmark delivers far greater value: lower costs for safe, clean accommodations in good locations.  WM trades well through both RCI and II and thus could be used for the occasional trades into Marriott Ko Olina (II) and DVC (RCI) locations.


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## PearlCity

alwysonvac said:


> When you go to Disneyland do you normally stay onsite?
> 
> Here are some nearby offsite options that may be doable via a RCI or Interval International(II) exchange.
> RCI Timeshares Near Disneyland / Anaheim - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137252
> II Resorts to consider for the Anaheim, CA area (Disneyland) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114148
> 
> Here are some examples of previous offsite availability sighted in RCI & II (NOTE: Must sign in as a TUG member to view)
> II: Shell Vacation Club@Peacock Suites - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172246&highlight=disneyland
> RCI: Dolphin's Cove - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142406&highlight=disneyland
> RCI:WorldMark Anaheim – http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140608&highlight=disneyland
> II:Marriott's Newport Coast Villas – http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171903&highlight=newport
> 
> Also, keep in mind that as your learn more about timesharing or as your needs change over the years, you can always sell your existing timeshare (of course, depending on what you own) and buy another one.
> 
> For example, I sold most of my Disney points when I learned years ago (from TUG of course ) that it was cheaper to trade into DisneyWorld using WorldMark. Yes, I gave up the ability to call Disney directly to book any dates that I wanted but I was willing to give up that option to take advantage of larger accommodations during my DisneyWorld stay at a much lower cost :whoopie: (NOTE: I can travel anytime during the year).
> 
> Good Luck



Thanks for the info... We do stay on site or right across the street on harbor. But youre right my needs will change as time goes on. Right now we pay the premium to stay close because my kids are small and we deal a lot with strollers. In five years we van stay farther away at a Homewood suites that has nice enough accomodations with free breakfast and weeknight dinners. When things slow down at work i need to run numbers to see what works for us. Last time i ran numbers was three years ago and buy in.prices were much higher so the numbers didnt work for our family. But timeshare prices have dropped and our family situation has changed such that we will probably always need two regular hotel rooms or a suite when we travel. So being able to book.a one bedroon at vgc and having a kitchen onsite is worth it. 


Question out there is there anyone out there that has Dvc points that has been able to book gcv 1 or 2 Br 7 months out...Im pretty sure my friend of a friend checked for us last time and there was availability this past year but it went fast.  Im just curious as to what inventory is like.


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## MichaelColey

Staying at larger DVC units with DVC points is incredibly expensive.

For us, we always like to stay in a 2BR or larger timeshare (even if the quality is less), our RCI TPUs are cheap (about $10 factoring everything in), and we factor 1/10th of our upfront costs as opportunity costs / depreciation, so here's what a typical one week 2BR stay costs for Disneyland:

Off Site (about 30 TPU): $489
VGC via RCI Exchange (about 40 TPU, but very hard to get): $589
VGC via DVC points (assuming 300 pts, $50 upfront, $5 MF): $3000

I'll take VGC anytime I can get it through an RCI Exchange, but there's no way it's worth $3000 for a week to me when I can stay offsite for 1/6th that price.

Others will have different TPU costs, size preferences, travel seasons and pain thresholds, but that's how it works out for us (and why we'll probably never stay there with DVC points).

FWIW, our numbers for DisneyWorld:

Off Site (about 10 TPU off season): $289
DVC via RCI Exchange (40-50 TPU plus $95 fee): $700-$750
DVC via DVC Points: $3000

There, we're more than happy to exchange in with a cost around $700 (vs. <$300 off site), but no way we could justify $3000 (10x our off site costs).


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## bshmerlie

MichaelColey said:


> Staying at larger DVC units with DVC points is incredibly expensive.



Michael...then what is the reason for owning DVC points?  What do you use yours for? I was also thinking about picking up a small DVC point contract (75 points) for just random single day stays at VGC.  Do you think its not worth it? What's your opinion?


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## PearlCity

MichaelColey said:


> Staying at larger DVC units with DVC points is incredibly expensive.
> 
> For us, we always like to stay in a 2BR or larger timeshare (even if the quality is less), our RCI TPUs are cheap (about $10 factoring everything in), and we factor 1/10th of our upfront costs as opportunity costs / depreciation, so here's what a typical one week 2BR stay costs for Disneyland:
> 
> Off Site (about 30 TPU): $489
> VGC via RCI Exchange (about 40 TPU, but very hard to get): $589
> VGC via DVC points (assuming 300 pts, $50 upfront, $5 MF): $3000
> 
> I'll take VGC anytime I can get it through an RCI Exchange, but there's no way it's worth $3000 for a week to me when I can stay offsite for 1/6th that price.
> 
> Others will have different TPU costs, size preferences, travel seasons and pain thresholds, but that's how it works out for us (and why we'll probably never stay there with DVC points).
> 
> FWIW, our numbers for DisneyWorld:
> 
> Off Site (about 10 TPU off season): $289
> DVC via RCI Exchange (40-50 TPU plus $95 fee): $700-$750
> DVC via DVC Points: $3000
> 
> There, we're more than happy to exchange in with a cost around $700 (vs. <$300 off site), but no way we could justify $3000 (10x our off site costs).



hi! Im trying to run numbers right now so this is a genuine question. How dis you get $3000 from $5 maintenance fee for 300 points. I come up with $1500. Does disney have hidden fees? Or were you also accounting for upfront costs to buy in? What is your method to factor in your costs?


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## bshmerlie

PearlCity said:


> hi! Im trying to run numbers right now so this is a genuine question. How dis you get $3000 from $5 maintenance fee for 300 points. I come up with $1500. Does disney have hidden fees? Or were you also accounting for upfront costs to buy in? What is your method to factor in your costs?



Maybe he's buying extra points to complete the vacation because they sell at $10-$11 each.  Some DVC owners buy small packages and then buy additional points as needed for a vacation.  I don't really see how thats cost effective but people do it.  If you but a larger package the upfront costs can get pretty extreme.  Living as close to Disneyland as I do I don't think I would ever stay an entire week there.  Three days tops.


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## Beefnot

bshmerlie said:


> Maybe he's buying extra points to complete the vacation because they sell at $10-$11 each.  Some DVC owners buy small packages and then buy additional points as needed for a vacation.  I don't really see how thats cost effective but people do it.  If you but a larger package the upfront costs can get pretty extreme.  Living as close to Disneyland as I do I don't think I would ever stay an entire week there.  Three days tops.



Maybe amortizing what he paid to buy in to Disney ($50 per point x 300 points = $15,000) over ten years?  If so, then for apples to apples, would need to account for whatever he paid to acquired the other TS, unless his $10 per TPU also accounts for buy-in costs.


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## DazedandConfused

I don't know what the DVC point requirements are, but they rent for $10-13pp and trading into them is far cheaper than owning, but you have to roll the dice to get your dates and locations.


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## heathpack

PearlCity said:


> hi! Im trying to run numbers right now so this is a genuine question. How dis you get $3000 from $5 maintenance fee for 300 points. I come up with $1500. Does disney have hidden fees? Or were you also accounting for upfront costs to buy in? What is your method to factor in your costs?



It would cost you about $30,000 to buy 300 points from Disney.  You might be able to get the same thing resale for $25-$27,000.  The points are good for 60 years but it is common to run the amortization numbers over 20 years.

$30,000 divided by 20 years is $1500 in initial purchase price.  Plus $5/pt MF x 300 points/yr is another $1500/yr.  Thus $3000/year, assuming resale value of zero (which is unrealistically glum but how I would personally run the numbers).

It is also possible that Michael is taking into account the expected increase in annual MF of about 3 percent per year.

I know running my numbers, I figure it costs me about $11/pt to own DVC for the first 20 years.  Then for the remaining life of the contract, my points cost me whatever the MF are at that point in time.

The reasons to own DVC are manifold but for me it is no great bargain.  I own for the following reasons:
1.  I want to book weekend stays
2.  I want to control my own reservations
3.  If I hold long enough, it will become cost effective

H


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## MichaelColey

bshmerlie said:


> Michael...then what is the reason for owning DVC points? What do you use yours for? I was also thinking about picking up a small DVC point contract (75 points) for just random single day stays at VGC. Do you think its not worth it? What's your opinion?


I only have a 25 point contract, mainly for AP discounts.  I bought it resale for under $2k and MFs are about $125/year.  I save over $500 every time I buy APs for my family.  And I used two years of points for a night in a 2BR at Aulani.  



PearlCity said:


> hi! Im trying to run numbers right now so this is a genuine question. How dis you get $3000 from $5 maintenance fee for 300 points. I come up with $1500. Does disney have hidden fees? Or were you also accounting for upfront costs to buy in? What is your method to factor in your costs?


Yes, I factor in the upfront costs.  It's the only way to really compare apples to apples.  My $10/TPU cost also has the (minimal) upfront costs factored in, as well as combine fees and other expenses.


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## PearlCity

MichaelColey said:


> I only have a 25 point contract, mainly for AP discounts.  I bought it resale for under $2k and MFs are about $125/year.  I save over $500 every time I buy APs for my family.  And I used two years of points for a night in a 2BR at Aulani.
> 
> Yes, I factor in the upfront costs.  It's the only way to really compare apples to apples.  My $10/TPU cost also has the (minimal) upfront costs factored in, as well aso combine fees and other expenses.



Are these discounts available for folks who buy resale after march of last year?


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## slum808

Yes you can still get the discounts. The DL discount is not as good as the WDW discount.


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## presley

PearlCity said:


> The other thing is right now the kids love Disney, but how long will that last? Would a better bet be buying into Marriott, Hilton or possibly even Worldmark or another major Timeshare company?



Don't buy anything until you've really checked them all out completely.  If you plan on visiting DL often and can make your plans 11 months ahead of time, owning there makes sense.  If not, you can save a lot of money going with something else.

Worldmark has a lot of resorts and trades at the highest level in both RCI and II.   

Hilton is a user friendly system, but they have nothing at DL, or Ko Olina.  If you truly want to stay at Ko Olina and/or DL, you should consider owning at one of those.  It's just very nice to know that you have what you want and that you don't need to gamble and pay another company an exchange fee to give you what you want.


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## chalee94

PearlCity said:


> Sigh.. Good to know.. How Many 1 BR units do they have?



borrowed from the DISboards:



> VGC - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1BR villas - 23 Dedicated 2BR villas - 23 Lockoffs - 2 Grand Villas = 48 Units / 71 Max. Available Rooms





> Are these discounts available for folks who buy resale after march of last year?



currently, yes...but they can come and go for anyone, direct purchasers and resale buyers alike.


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## MichaelColey

So far, the only restrictions on resale owners (and those who bought resale before 3/21/11 are grandfathered/excluded) is that we can't use our points for Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection.  These are poor redemption values anyway, from what I've read.  All other perks are exactly the same.


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## hypnotiq

What is the discount on the AP for DVC members?

Also, is there a discount for the Premier Pass for DVC members?


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## presley

hypnotiq said:


> What is the discount on the AP for DVC members?
> 
> Also, is there a discount for the Premier Pass for DVC members?


No discount for Premier.
The WDW AP used to be $100./off, but I read that the discount is better now after the AP increases.
The DL AP is only $20./off and that is only off of the $649./ pass.


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## MichaelColey

hypnotiq said:


> What is the discount on the AP for DVC members?
> 
> Also, is there a discount for the Premier Pass for DVC members?


The discount actually went up recently (at the same time as the latest AP price increase, making just a minimal increase for DVC owners!).

Regular WDW AP: $425 ($149 discount)
Renewal WDW AP: $385 ($149 discount)
Premium WDW AP: $559 ($140 discount)
Renewal WDW AP: $509 ($140 discount)

Deluxe DL AP (315 days): $449 ($20 discount)
Deluxe DL AP with Parking: $578 ($20 discount)
Premium DL AP (no blockout days): $629 ($20 discount)

Premier AP (DL and WDW): no discount

Another (small) factor is that WDW APs have 6.5% sales tax added to them, so a $149 discount is really $158.69. For five of us, we save $793.43 on our APs. The renewal WDW DVC AP rate ($385) isn't much more than a 10 day base ticket ($318 adults, $300 kids).


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## luvsvacation22

PearlCity said:


> Sigh.. Good to know.. How Many 1 BR units do they have? That's my minimum requirement for Grand Californian.  We typically go in October because of the school Schedule in hawaii and a less amount of crowds. I have had friends in the past check for me and usualy there avaiability about 6 months out.. but less than that the rooms get snapped up.


 I think this has changed with the opening of Cars Land. DL has always been viewed as a local park and that is true but there are many WDW fans (East Coasters) who are coming out to visit DL. There is also an influx of DVC owners wanting to book at VGC at the 7 month. For example I have a friend that wanted to visit DL in Feb and one week after the 7 month window opened for February the rooms were booked. Weekends are most popular. I think it has gotten to the point, if you want to stay at VGC as a DVC member, you must own there.



bshmerlie said:


> VGC is the nicest resort at Disneyland.  The rooms are nice although not super high end.  The ambiance of the resort is fantastic. Very Disney.  Nice pool with a water slide.  There is an entrance that leads directly into California Adventure. Proximity to Downtown Disney is another plus.  Its expensive to get to but if you can it is a great resort.


 VGC in my opinion is the nicest of all the DVC resorts.



PearlCity said:


> Thanks for the info... We do stay on site or right across the street on harbor. But youre right my needs will change as time goes on. Right now we pay the premium to stay close because my kids are small and we deal a lot with strollers. In five years we van stay farther away at a Homewood suites that has nice enough accomodations with free breakfast and weeknight dinners. When things slow down at work i need to run numbers to see what works for us. Last time i ran numbers was three years ago and buy in.prices were much higher so the numbers didnt work for our family. But timeshare prices have dropped and our family situation has changed such that we will probably always need two regular hotel rooms or a suite when we travel. So being able to book.a one bedroon at vgc and having a kitchen onsite is worth it.
> 
> 
> Question out there is there anyone out there that has Dvc points that has been able to book gcv 1 or 2 Br 7 months out...Im pretty sure my friend of a friend checked for us last time and there was availability this past year but it went fast.  Im just curious as to what inventory is like.



Our kids are in college and we still love staying on-site. They love it too!


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## alwysonvac

PearlCity said:


> Question out there is there anyone out there that has Dvc points that has been able to book gcv 1 or 2 Br 7 months out...Im pretty sure my friend of a friend checked for us last time and there was availability this past year but it went fast.  Im just curious as to what inventory is like.



Here's what I see online at the moment...

As of today I can book my arrival as far out as February 28, 2013 at any non-home resort. 

January & February 2013 online availability at the Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa

Studio (sleeps 4) - Sat Jan 5, Fri Jan 11, *Mon Jan 14 thru Wed Jan 16*, Tues Jan 22, Fri Jan 25, Mon Jan 28, Thur Jan 31, Tues Feb 12, *Sun Feb 24 thru Thur Feb 28*

One Bedroom (sleeps 5) - Fri Jan 4, Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Tues Jan 15, Wed Jan 16, *Tues Jan 22 thru Fri Jan 25*, Sun Jan 27, Mon, Jan 28, *Wed Jan 30 thru Sat Feb 2, Mon Feb 4 thru Wed Feb 6*, Fri Feb 8, Wed Feb 20, *Sat Feb 23 thru Thur Feb 28*

Two Bedroom dedicated (sleeps 9) - Wed Jan 2 to Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Fri Jan 11, *Sun Jan 13 thru Thur Jan 17*, *Mon Jan 21 thru Fri Feb 15*, *Fri Feb 22 thru Thurs Feb 28*

Three Bedroom (sleeps 12) - *Sat Feb 23 thru Thurs Feb 28*

Plenty of dedicated two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms seem to go first along with the two bedroom lockoff units.
NOTE: Martin Luther King is on Jan 21 and President's Day is on Feb 18.


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## luvsvacation22

alwysonvac said:


> Here's what I see online at the moment...
> 
> As of today I can book my arrival as far out as February 28, 2013 at any non-home resort.
> 
> January & February 2013 online availability at the Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa
> 
> Studio (sleeps 4) - Sat Jan 5, Fri Jan 11, *Mon Jan 14 thru Wed Jan 16*, Tues Jan 22, Fri Jan 25, Mon Jan 28, Thur Jan 31, Tues Feb 12, *Sun Feb 24 thru Thur Feb 28*
> 
> One Bedroom (sleeps 5) - Fri Jan 4, Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Tues Jan 15, Wed Jan 16, Tues Jan 22 to Fri Jan 25, Sun Jan 27, Mon, Jan 28, *Wed Jan 30 to Sat Feb 2, Mon Feb 4 thru Wed Feb 6*, Fri Feb 8, Wed Feb 20, *Sat Feb 23 thru Thur Feb 28*
> 
> Two Bedroom dedicated (sleeps 9) - Wed Jan 2 to Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Fri Jan 11, *Sun Jan 13 thru Thur Jan 17*, *Mon Jan 21 thru Fri Feb 15*, *Fri Feb 22 thru Thurs Feb 28*
> 
> Three Bedroom (sleeps 12) - *Sat Feb 23 thru Thurs Feb 28*
> 
> Plenty of dedicated two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms seem to go first along with the two bedroom lockoff units.
> NOTE: Martin Luther King is on Jan 21 and President's Day is on Feb 18.



I agree, most people want a studio or one bedroom The dates my friend needed for the weekend are not available. They wanted a studio or one bedroom.


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## alwysonvac

PearlCity said:


> Thanks for the info... We do stay on site or right across the street on harbor.



Since you're staying on site, you're probably paying over $1,000 a week for your stay.

I took a look at prices during the Hawaii School Fall Break for 2012 which is Oct 1 thru Oct 5

Mon Oct 1 to Fri Oct 5 (4 night stay)
A Standard View Room for 2 adults and 2 children under 6 for 4 nights range from $1170 to $1848 depending on the onsite Disneyland Resort.
A two bedroom villa for 4 nights at GCV is 184 DVC points @ $10pt = $1,840
A one bedroom villa for 4 nights at GCV is 124 DVC points @ $10pt = $1,240

Sat Sept 29 to Sat Oct 6 (7 night stay)
A Standard View Room for 2 adults and 2 children under 6 for 7 nights range from $2,094 to $3,311 depending on the onsite  Disneyland Resort.
A two bedroom villa for 7 nights at GCV is 361 DVC points @ $10pt = $3,610
A one bedroom villa for 7 nights at GCV is 251 DVC points @ $10pt = $2,510

IMHO.....If you really want Ko Olina and Disneyland, perhaps getting a small number of DVC points (no more than 100 DVC points) via resale at one of the cheaper DVC resorts (like Old Key West) might work for you. Disney allows you to bank and borrow and to do a point transfer once each use year (if you decide to rent points from another member) Due to the limited number of units at Disneyland, I would book as close as possible to the 7 month window and avoid major holidays. If you're unable to use your points at Disneyland, you can still use them at Aulani in Ko Olina.  And you can always add more DVC points later after you get your feet wet.

If you decide to buy resale, visit the Mouseowners forum for Questions about Buying DVC -  http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 (see Sticky threads at the top of the forum)

Good Luck


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## MichaelColey

luvsvacation22 said:


> VGC in my opinion is the nicest of all the DVC resorts.


From the ones I've seen (everything except BLT, Aulani, HH and VB), I would agree.  Of course my opinion might change once I stay at Aulani in September!  I kind of dought it, though.  Being able to walk right out into California Adventure is pretty awesome.


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## PearlCity

MichaelColey said:


> So far, the only restrictions on resale owners (and those who bought resale before 3/21/11 are grandfathered/excluded) is that we can't use our points for Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection.  These are poor redemption values anyway, from what I've read.  All other perks are exactly the same.



Does this include not making hotel room reservations at Disneyland? I.e. the regular disneyland resort hotels?


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## PearlCity

alwysonvac said:


> Here's what I see online at the moment...
> 
> As of today I can book my arrival as far out as February 28, 2013 at any non-home resort.
> 
> January & February 2013 online availability at the Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa
> 
> Studio (sleeps 4) - Sat Jan 5, Fri Jan 11, *Mon Jan 14 thru Wed Jan 16*, Tues Jan 22, Fri Jan 25, Mon Jan 28, Thur Jan 31, Tues Feb 12, *Sun Feb 24 thru Thur Feb 28*
> 
> One Bedroom (sleeps 5) - Fri Jan 4, Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Tues Jan 15, Wed Jan 16, Tues Jan 22 to Fri Jan 25, Sun Jan 27, Mon, Jan 28, *Wed Jan 30 to Sat Feb 2, Mon Feb 4 thru Wed Feb 6*, Fri Feb 8, Wed Feb 20, *Sat Feb 23 thru Thur Feb 28*
> 
> Two Bedroom dedicated (sleeps 9) - Wed Jan 2 to Sat Jan 5, Thur Jan 10, Fri Jan 11, *Sun Jan 13 thru Thur Jan 17*, *Mon Jan 21 thru Fri Feb 15*, *Fri Feb 22 thru Thurs Feb 28*
> 
> Three Bedroom (sleeps 12) - *Sat Feb 23 thru Thurs Feb 28*
> 
> Plenty of dedicated two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms seem to go first along with the two bedroom lockoff units.
> NOTE: Martin Luther King is on Jan 21 and President's Day is on Feb 18.



Thank you for checking for me!  I really appreciate it. My co-worker has rented points in the past from her friend who owns Disney in Florida and has been able to book 2 bedroom units at VGC 7 months out for both July and December. but I think she is super "on it" with calling at 7 months out and I never knew what studio or 1 BR availability was like.   I really appreciate your help!


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## slum808

PearlCity said:


> Does this include not making hotel room reservations at Disneyland? I.e. the regular disneyland resort hotels?



The DL hotels are part of the Disney collection andbthus not available to resale owners. As Michael said, its a bad use of points. A single night at the grand Californian hotel room is about 50 points.


----------



## MichaelColey

Yep, awful value.

We got an RCI Exchange into a 2BR VGC earlier this year.  One evening while I was at the grills, grilling steak, I visited with a guy at the next grill who was grilling hot dogs.  He was a DVC owner, but he didn't book in advance so the only thing available was a hotel stay.  He said he was just staying for 3 nights (in a GC hotel room).  If it cost him 50 DVC points per night, at $10/point that's $1500 for three nights.  My week was 37 TPU (at $10/TPU, plus a $189 exchange fee), so I was paying almost a third of what he paid for over twice as long of a stay, in a full 2BR timeshare.  Talk about getting steak at hot dog prices...


----------



## oktracy

Any secrets to snagging an exchange thru RCI at VGC?


----------



## slum808

You'll need to be extreamly flexible on dates. Most who have had success, have a running search for anyweek of the year. You could also look at RCI points, there have been more sightings of VGC on RCI points. Most likly this is because Points don't have any ongoing searches.


----------



## PearlCity

How do folks figure out where to buy? I'd want to stay at VGC or aulani 
(Aulani schedule is flexible for us). I know folks say buy where you want to stay but do people really do that? I'm torn between VGC  and SSR....SSR just for low buy in and mf.


----------



## JPrisco

If you want high demand times, you pretty much should own where you want to stay - to book at 11 months out.  If you are flexible, at 7 months you can try for resorts other than your home resort.
I own at SSR and have been able to get reservation wherever I want so far.  I have booked the first day at the 7 month mark for Bay Lake Towers and been able to get a stay there, even during Feb school break.
I am happy owning SSR.
JP


----------



## PearlCity

JPrisco said:


> If you want high demand times, you pretty much should own where you want to stay - to book at 11 months out.  If you are flexible, at 7 months you can try for resorts other than your home resort.
> I own at SSR and have been able to get reservation wherever I want so far.  I have booked the first day at the 7 month mark for Bay Lake Towers and been able to get a stay there, even during Feb school break.
> I am happy owning SSR.
> JP



Thanks I think you answered my question  I honestly font like Disney during peak times. It's nuts for me with my own kids much less being surrounded by crowds! Since my original post I was going back and forth between Hgvc and dvc. Even though hgvc is cheaper I really think our family will make more use of dvc in the next 10 years...


----------



## presley

PearlCity said:


> How do folks figure out where to buy? I'd want to stay at VGC or aulani
> (Aulani schedule is flexible for us). I know folks say buy where you want to stay but do people really do that? I'm torn between VGC  and SSR....SSR just for low buy in and mf.



VGC is very hard to book at 7 months out.  They don't have very many villas and they fill up.  You can book it at lower season times for the most part.  If you don't buy there, just don't plan on going in the summer or during school holidays.

Aulani has also been hard to book at 7 months out, but it is new.  It should be easier to book in the future.


----------



## PearlCity

presley said:


> VGC is very hard to book at 7 months out.  They don't have very many villas and they fill up.  You can book it at lower season times for the most part.  If you don't buy there, just don't plan on going in the summer or during school holidays.
> 
> Aulani has also been hard to book at 7 months out, but it is new.  It should be easier to book in the future.



If I bought a small SSR and found that it doesn't work is it possible to buy a second vgc contract and transfer points between propertoes  so I could get the vgc booking priority or do you only get that priority for points associated with that property?


----------



## presley

PearlCity said:


> If I bought a small SSR and found that it doesn't work is it possible to buy a second vgc contract and transfer points between propertoes  so I could get the vgc booking priority or do you only get that priority for points associated with that property?



You only get priority booking for the VGC points.  All transferred points hold onto their original use month/year and home resort.


----------



## alwysonvac

FYI....Here's what I currently see right now for March  & April. 
As of today I can book my arrival as far out as April 22, 2013 at any non-home resort. 

*The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa *

Studio (sleeps 4) 
Wed 3/6 - Sat 3/9, Mon 3/11, Tues 3/19, Wed 3/20, Tues 3/26, Sat 4/6, Sun 4/7, Sun 4/14, Wed 4/17, Fri 4/19 - Sun 4/21

One Bedroom (sleeps 5) 
Fri 3/1 - Sun 3/10, Wed 3/13, Thurs 3/14 - Sat 3/23, Fri 3/29 - Mon 4/1, Wed 4/3 - Tues 4/9, Fri 4/12 - Sun 4/21

Two Bedroom Villa (lockoff sleeps 9)
Wed 3/6 - Sat 3/9, Tues 3/19, Wed 3/20, Sat 4/6, Sun 4/7, Tue 4/9, Sun 4/14, Wed 4/17, Fri 4/19 - Sun 4/21

Two Bedroom Villa - (dedicated sleeps 9) 
Fri 3/1 - Sat 3/23, Wed 3/27 - Sun 4/21

Three Bedroom Grand Villa (sleeps 12)
Fri 3/1, Sat 3/2, Thurs 3/7 - Sat 3/9, Mon 3/18 - Fri 4/11, Sat 4/13 - Sun 4/21

Just like in Jan & Feb the dedicated two bedrooms and Grand Villas have more availablility and the smaller units are being booked first since they require the least amount of points.

NOTE: Easter falls on March 31 in 2013. However the OP stated that he doesn't like Disney during peak times

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that Aulani is hard to book at 7 months out. Yes, perhaps like WDW certain size units and views might be harder to book at the 7 months but not completely shut out for all size units.


----------



## alwysonvac

PearlCity said:


> How do folks figure out where to buy? I'd want to stay at VGC or aulani
> (Aulani schedule is flexible for us). I know folks say buy where you want to stay but do people really do that? I'm torn between VGC  and SSR....SSR just for low buy in and mf.



You might find this mouseowner thread helpful 
"Choosing Your Home Resort" - http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23281


----------



## PearlCity

alwysonvac said:


> FYI....Here's what I currently see right now for March  & April.
> As of today I can book my arrival as far out as April 22, 2013 at any non-home resort.
> 
> *The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa *
> 
> Studio (sleeps 4)
> Wed 3/6 - Sat 3/9, Mon 3/11, Tues 3/19, Wed 3/20, Tues 3/26, Sat 4/6, Sun 4/7, Sun 4/14, Wed 4/17, Fri 4/19 - Sun 4/21
> 
> One Bedroom (sleeps 5)
> Fri 3/1 - Sun 3/10, Wed 3/13, Thurs 3/14 - Sat 3/23, Fri 3/29 - Mon 4/1, Wed 4/3 - Tues 4/9, Fri 4/12 - Sun 4/21
> 
> Two Bedroom Villa (lockoff sleeps 9)
> Wed 3/6 - Sat 3/9, Tues 3/19, Wed 3/20, Sat 4/6, Sun 4/7, Tue 4/9, Sun 4/14, Wed 4/17, Fri 4/19 - Sun 4/21
> 
> Two Bedroom Villa - (dedicated sleeps 9)
> Fri 3/1 - Sat 3/23, Wed 3/27 - Sun 4/21
> 
> Three Bedroom Grand Villa (sleeps 12)
> Fri 3/1, Sat 3/2, Thurs 3/7 - Sat 3/9, Mon 3/18 - Fri 4/11, Sat 4/13 - Sun 4/21
> 
> Just like in Jan & Feb the dedicated two bedrooms and Grand Villas have more availablility and the smaller units are being booked first since they require the least amount of points.
> 
> NOTE: Easter falls on March 31 in 2013. However the OP stated that he doesn't like Disney during peak times
> 
> Honestly, I find it hard to believe that Aulani is hard to book at 7 months out. Yes, perhaps like WDW certain size units and views might be harder to book at the 7 months but not completely shut out for all size units.



Alwaysonvac--you're awesome! Thank you..  I must say that I love looking at your sightings  I really appreciate your help!  There actually seems to be a lot of availability in March.. Hawaii schools spring break is usually week 11 (mid march) and rooms seem to be wide open for 1 and 2 bedrooms.  That time is probably the most crowd I'm willing to deal with. Lol.  I think I have a decision.. SSR.. I could afford more points with SSR so I actually could book a two bedroom somewhere which is important as often my mom or Mother In law wants to come along with us. 

As for Aulani, yes I find it hard to believe that it will be that difficult to book 7 months out in the future.   When they first opened, reservations were a little difficult to get, but right now, they have hotel rooms, studios, 1 and 2 bedroom villas at 40 percent off on weekdays, 30 percent off on weekends for military, annual passholders and Hawaii Residents  (yes there is construction but still).  but even then my Aulani stays would not be a week--more like 2 or three days so I could book those I think whenever.  Hawaii is also a weird place. Room occupancy rates are dependent on so many things, economy, airfare, world events-its not driving distance for 95 percent of DVC owners..


----------



## chalee94

PearlCity said:


> Thanks I think you answered my question  I honestly font like Disney during peak times.



just remember that peak times for the parks are not always the same as peak times for DVC bookings.


----------



## PearlCity

chalee94 said:


> just remember that peak times for the parks are not always the same as peak times for DVC bookings.



Good point


----------



## PearlCity

Okay question.. when people say to buy a loaded contract and account for $10 per point for that loaded contract--how does that work. 

So say 100 points at $60 per point = $6000.  and it comes with 100 points from 2012.  Do I account for $10 per point  ($1000) so my true cost is $50 per point or $5000 for the contract? Do folks normally pay maintenance fees on the points that the contract comes with?


----------



## slum808

Everything is negotiable, sellers will normally ask for current years MF to be reimbursed if points are included. Typically because there are so many SSR contracts you could go in supper low and wait for a counter. People have been offering $20 below asking with seller to pay MF and buyer to pay closing.


----------



## PearlCity

Ok sorry more questions... I have this fear of overbuying. Right now mom comes with us so a 2 Br is needed when we go. Eventually mom may come less often then all we would need us a 1 Br is it complicated to have two contracts one at say 100 points and one at .150 points? As the kids get older maybe sell off 100 points?  What are the advantages of buying a single large contract vice two smaller ones besides paying closing twice for two contracts?


----------



## chalee94

PearlCity said:


> Ok sorry more questions... I have this fear of overbuying. Right now mom comes with us so a 2 Br is needed when we go. Eventually mom may come less often then all we would need us a 1 Br is it complicated to have two contracts one at say 100 points and one at .150 points? As the kids get older maybe sell off 100 points?



that is a good plan - not uncommon.

the contracts need to be titled exactly the same and have the same UY month.  then they should be combined under one membership number and will function as one contract for booking (at 11 months if you buy into the same resort, or at 7 months, if you buy different resorts) but can still be sold or willed separately.



> What are the advantages of buying a single large contract vice two smaller ones besides paying closing twice for two contracts?



it's generally a little cheaper per pt to buy larger contracts (it's tougher to resell larger contracts - fewer buyers willing to pay the higher overall price means less demand.)  but i'd think closing costs are probably the main issue.


----------



## chrisdu

Points at VGC are likely to have a higher resale value than SSR, some thing to factor in before you commit to the purchase.


----------



## slum808

PearlCity said:


> Ok sorry more questions... I have this fear of overbuying. Right now mom comes with us so a 2 Br is needed when we go. Eventually mom may come less often then all we would need us a 1 Br is it complicated to have two contracts one at say 100 points and one at .150 points? As the kids get older maybe sell off 100 points?  What are the advantages of buying a single large contract vice two smaller ones besides paying closing twice for two contracts?



Keep in mind that it might be okay to have the kids in the living room when they're small but as they get bigger , you'll appreciate the two bedroom more.


----------



## Twinkstarr

slum808 said:


> Keep in mind that it might be okay to have the kids in the living room when they're small but as they get bigger , you'll appreciate the two bedroom more.



To the OP, we just have 2 kids, when we bought DVC they were 5/10 and have been doing 2brs from the start. Now the eldest is 16, the biggest plus is the 2nd bathroom, because I think he could give some girls a run for the money in bathroom time in the morning.


----------



## chunkygal

WE have never regretted "buying too much". We occasionally use 1 bedroom, but so often we take a kids friends or two friends or invite our family and friends. Of course when we bought we were only going to use the one bedroom...but after the luxury of 2 room privacy it is hard to go back.  Our kids are older now (members 17 years) and I like themhaving a clean nice place to go with friends and I am hoping grandkids soon.


----------



## alwysonvac

*Availability update*

As of today I can book my arrival as far out as* July 23, 2013 *at any non-home resort.


*The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa *
Avalability for 3/23 thru 7/23 [NOTE: Easter is on 3/30/2013]

Studio (sleeps 4) 
Sun 4/7, Wed 4/17, Mon 4/20, Thur 5/16, Fri 5/31, Fri 6/7, Wed 6/12, Sat 7/20

One Bedroom (sleeps 5) 
Sat 3/23, Fri 3/29 - Sun 3/31, Sat 4/6, Mon 4/8, Wed 4/10, Fri 4/12, Sun 4/14, Fri, 4/19, Sat 4/20, Mon 4/22, Fri 4/26, Sun 5/5, Fri 5/10, Sat 5/11, Tues 5/14, Fri, 5/31, Mon 7/8, Tues 7/9, Fri 7/12, Sat 7/13, Wed 7/17 - Tues 7/23

Two Bedroom Villa (lockoff sleeps 9)
Mon 4/22, Fri 5/31, Sat 6/29, Sun 6/30, Sat 7/20

Two Bedroom Villa (dedicated sleeps 9) 
Sun 3/24, Fri 3/29 - Sun 3/31, Fri 4/5, Sat 4/6, Tues 4/9 - Thur 4/11, Sun 4/14, Wed 4/17, Fri 4/19, Sat 4/27, Tues 4/30, Tues 5/7 - Sun 5/12, Tues 5/14, Wed 5/15, Fri 5/17, Sat 5/18, Mon 5/20 - Thur 5/23, Tues 5/28, Sat 6/1, Mon 6/3, Fri 6/7, Sat 6/15, Sun 6/23, Wed 6/26, Fri 6/28 - Sun 6/30, Fri 7/5 - Tues 7/23

Three Bedroom Grand Villa (sleeps 12)
Fri 3/29 - Sun 3/31, Sat 4/6 - Mon 4/8, Wed 4/17, Thur 4/18, Sun Apr 21 - Thurs 4/25, Sun 4/28 - Wed 5/1, Mon 5/6, Tues 5/7, Sun 5/12 - Wed 5/15, Sun 5/19, Tues 5/21, Fri 5/24, Sun 5/26, Fri 5/31, Sat 6/1, Wed 6/26 - Sat 6/29, Wed 7/10 - Sun 7/14, Thurs 7/18, Fri 7/19, Mon 7/22 



*Aulani, Disney Vacation Club® Villas, Ko Olina, Hawaii *
Avalability for 6/29 thru 7/23

Deluxe Studio - Standard View 
sun 6/30 - Wed 7/3, Fri 7/5 - Mon 7/8, Wed 7/10, Mon 7/15 - Tues 7/23

Deluxe Studio - Island Gardens View 
Sun 6/30 - Wed 7/3, Fri 7/5 - Fri 7/12, Thur 7/18, Sat 7/20, Mon 7/22, Tues 7/23

Deluxe Studio - Poolside Gardens View 
Sat 6/29 - Tue 7/2, Fri 7/5 - Thur 7/11, Sat 7/13 - Wed 7/17. Fri 7/19 - Tues 7/23

Deluxe Studio - Ocean View 
Sat 6/29, Mon 7/1 - Wed 7/10, Fri 7/12 - Tues 7/23

1 Bedroom Villa - Standard View 
Tues 7/2 - Tues 7/9, Thur 7/11 - Sat 7/13, Sun 7/14, Wed 7/17

1 Bedroom Villa - Island Gardens View 
Sat 6/29, Mon 7/1 - Fri 7/5, Sun 7/7 - Tues 7/9. Thurs 7/11 - Sun 7/14, Wed 7/17 - Fri 7/19

1 Bedroom Villa - Poolside Gardens View 
Tues 7/2, Wed 7/3, Fri 7/5, Wd 7/10, Sat 7/13, Sun 7/14, Tues 7/16, Mon 7/22

1 Bedroom Villa - Ocean View 
Mon 7/2 - Mon 7/8, Sat 7/13, Mon 7/15 - Tues 7/23

2 Bedroom Lock-Off Villa - Standard View 
Tues 7/2, Wed 7/3, Fri 7/5 - Mon 7/8, Wed 7/17

2 Bedroom Lock-Off Villa - Island Gardens View 
Mon 7/1 - Wed 7/3, Fri 7/5, Sun 7/7 - Tues 7/9, Thur 7/11 - Sat 7/13, Thur 7/18

2 Bedroom Lock-Off Villa - Poolside Gardens View 
Tues 7/2, Fri 7/5, Wed 7/10, Sat 7/13, Sun 7/14, Tues 7/16, Mon 7/22

2 Bedroom Lock-Off Villa - Ocean View 
Mon 7/1 - Fri 7/5, Sun 7/7, Sat 7/13, Mon 7/15 - Tues 7/23

2 Bedroom Villa - Standard View 
Mon 7/1, Thur 7/4, Fri 7/5, Mon 7/15, Sat 7/20, Mon 7/22, Tues 7/23

2 Bedroom Villa - Island Gardens View 
Sat 7/1 - Fri 7/5, Sun 7/7 - Wed 7/10, Fri 7/12, Sat 7/13, Mon 7/15, wed 7/17, Thur 7/18, Tues 7/23

2 Bedroom Villa - Poolside Gardens View 
Sat 7/1 - Fri 7/5, Mon 7/8, Fri 7/12, Sat 7/13, Tues 7/16, Wed 7/17, Fri 7/19, Mon 7/22, Tues 7/23 

2 Bedroom Villa - Ocean View 
Mon 7/1 - Sat 7/6, Sat 7/13, Tues 7/16 - Tues 7/23

3 Bedroom Grand Villa - Standard View
none

3 Bedroom Grand Villa - Ocean View 
Tues 7/2, Wed 7/3, Mon 7.8, Fri 7/12, Sat 7/13, Thur 7/18, Fri 7/19, Mon 7/22, Tues 7/23


----------



## PearlCity

Wow! You read my mind. I was wondering what summer availablilty was but didn't want to trouble you further. 

I think I have the husband convinced we should buy.  Just a matter of figuring out how many points to get at this point. Alwayaonvac, thank you so much!


----------



## BocaBum99

Pearl City,

Have you considered WorldMark, Wyndham or HGVC?  I think all three of those may work better for you than DVC.  DVC is only worth buying if you really have to have Disney or you get a deal too good to turn down.

I currently own Wyndham, WorldMark, HGVC, DVC and Bluegreen.  I sold off both of my Marriott's, my RCI points and my Orange Lake unit and I just closed on my first DVC package last week.  I sold the Marriotts because they screwed up by creating a very bad point system.  I bought the DVC because it was too good of a deal to pass up.

Just look at the cost difference in usage forgetting about purchase price for a moment.

My DVC 150 point package at Saratoga Springs has maintenance fees of $709.50.  That will get me 3 nights in a 1br oceanview unit for magic season at Aulani.  MF cost of $236.50 per night for a 1br unit.  That is extremely expensive.  I will probably use it for a few years and then sell it for a nice profit.

For Wyndham, I got a 2br upper level unit in Waikiki for 3 nights for Dec 30-Jan 2.  That cost me 63,000 points with my platinum discount and an upgrade.  My MF is $4.04/1000 points.  So, total cost $254.52 or $84.84/night.   Even at full price, the unit would have been 207,000 points which is $836.28 or $278.76/night.   A bit too pricey for me, but a great value at the discounted rate.

I just checked HGVC since I am an owner there.  I can get a 2br oceanview unit at the Lagoon Tower for $150/night plus tax for Jan 5-7.  With tax, the fee is $341.88 or $170.94.  This is the open season rate which is basically bonus time you can purchase just because you are an owner.  Availability isn't bad because there are a ton of cancellations.  I could have gotten New Years at HHV, but I called my wife to confirm and then lost it.  So, we are staying at the Wyndham instead.

If you owned a small WorldMark package, you could stay at the WorldMark Anaheim resort which is a very nice and relatively new purpose built timeshare resort and about 1.5 miles from Disneyland.

The advantage of a WorldMark package is the flexibilty.  You can buy a small package and rent credits from other owners to stay longer.  Or, you can rent your credits to other owners like me and get a stay at HGVC or Wyndham Waikiki.

More importantly, you will get tired of Disney.  We used to live in Florida and we had seasonal passes.  We went to Disney every month. My kids got tired of it.  So, instead of Disney, we were able to take them to the following resorts just in the WorldMark system:  San Diego, Oceanside, Dolphin's Cove, Pismo Beach, Marina Dunes (near Monterrey), Bass Lake (near Yosemite), Depoe Bay, Seattle, Vancouver, Victoria, Whistler, Canmore (near Banff), Yellowstone, Estes Park, St George, Las Vegas and Reno.  And that is just what I recall.

Disney is a specialty product and is good for a very small group of Disney fanatics.  I love Disney and went on a Disney Cruise to Alaska this past summer.  However, I am not a fanatic and value matters to me.  I own Disney only because I got a deal too good to turn down.  And, to rent that Aulani unit would cost at least $500/night.  For that, I'd rather rent a nice oceanfront 3br unit in Lanikai. 

I live in Kahala.  If you ever come to town or my neck of the woods, we can have lunch and I can tell you how I do things and maybe even help you get a great deal on something.   Let me know.

I have a few groupons for Honolulu Burger Co.  if you want to get lunch.  Burgers are too expensive, but a good value at 50% off.

Jim


----------



## PearlCity

BocaBum99 said:


> Pearl City,
> 
> Have you considered WorldMark, Wyndham or HGVC?  I think all three of those may work better for you than DVC.  DVC is only worth buying if you really have to have Disney or you get a deal too good to turn down.
> 
> I currently own Wyndham, WorldMark, HGVC, DVC and Bluegreen.  I sold off both of my Marriott's, my RCI points and my Orange Lake unit and I just closed on my first DVC package last week.  I sold the Marriotts because they screwed up by creating a very bad point system.  I bought the DVC because it was too good of a deal to pass up.
> 
> Just look at the cost difference in usage forgetting about purchase price for a moment.
> 
> My DVC 150 point package at Saratoga Springs has maintenance fees of $709.50.  That will get me 3 nights in a 1br oceanview unit for magic season at Aulani.  MF cost of $236.50 per night for a 1br unit.  That is extremely expensive.  I will probably use it for a few years and then sell it for a nice profit.
> 
> For Wyndham, I got a 2br upper level unit in Waikiki for 3 nights for Dec 30-Jan 2.  That cost me 63,000 points with my platinum discount and an upgrade.  My MF is $4.04/1000 points.  So, total cost $254.52 or $84.84/night.   Even at full price, the unit would have been 207,000 points which is $836.28 or $278.76/night.   A bit too pricey for me, but a great value at the discounted rate.
> 
> I just checked HGVC since I am an owner there.  I can get a 2br oceanview unit at the Lagoon Tower for $150/night plus tax for Jan 5-7.  With tax, the fee is $341.88 or $170.94.  This is the open season rate which is basically bonus time you can purchase just because you are an owner.  Availability isn't bad because there are a ton of cancellations.  I could have gotten New Years at HHV, but I called my wife to confirm and then lost it.  So, we are staying at the Wyndham instead.
> 
> If you owned a small WorldMark package, you could stay at the WorldMark Anaheim resort which is a very nice and relatively new purpose built timeshare resort and about 1.5 miles from Disneyland.
> 
> The advantage of a WorldMark package is the flexibilty.  You can buy a small package and rent credits from other owners to stay longer.  Or, you can rent your credits to other owners like me and get a stay at HGVC or Wyndham Waikiki.
> 
> More importantly, you will get tired of Disney.  We used to live in Florida and we had seasonal passes.  We went to Disney every month. My kids got tired of it.  So, instead of Disney, we were able to take them to the following resorts just in the WorldMark system:  San Diego, Oceanside, Dolphin's Cove, Pismo Beach, Marina Dunes (near Monterrey), Bass Lake (near Yosemite), Depoe Bay, Seattle, Vancouver, Victoria, Whistler, Canmore (near Banff), Yellowstone, Estes Park, St George, Las Vegas and Reno.  And that is just what I recall.
> 
> Disney is a specialty product and is good for a very small group of Disney fanatics.  I love Disney and went on a Disney Cruise to Alaska this past summer.  However, I am not a fanatic and value matters to me.  I own Disney only because I got a deal too good to turn down.  And, to rent that Aulani unit would cost at least $500/night.  For that, I'd rather rent a nice oceanfront 3br unit in Lanikai.
> 
> I live in Kahala.  If you ever come to town or my neck of the woods, we can have lunch and I can tell you how I do things and maybe even help you get a great deal on something.   Let me know.
> 
> I have a few groupons for Honolulu Burger Co.  if you want to get lunch.  Burgers are too expensive, but a good value at 50% off.
> 
> Jim



I'm probably going to buy a Worldmark (or looking into Shell) to fill in years where I don't have enough points to stay at Disney with my DVC if we end up going as much as we have been.  I've been scrutinizing between Worldmark HGVC and Shell as my other point based Timeshare Option to complement my portfolio....But my family is THAT crazy Disney family.  But you're right, Disney is very expensive, that being said, it's also expensive to rent if you stay on property, and unfortunately, if we stay on property, which  we would like to at least every other year, we need to rent two rooms to accomdate the grandparents that like to come with us and our three kids. We tried the family suites at Disneyland accross the street on Harbor and while it worked, to me, it was more work for me than anything--the laundry was a walk away, we had to make a trip to Target for Milk three times that week because the mini fridge was too small and my kids drink THAT much milk, and trying to feed three little ones in a hotel room breakfast is no fun. I want my Disney vacations to be a vacation for me too. Which means I want to not walk far, I want to have a washer dryer in my room so that I can spend time with the kids and get the laundry done (whcih Shell won't give me I know!) and I want that full kitchen so I"m not stressing about breakfast each morning.  Yes the kids could eat cereal and milk everyday but even I get bored with that.  Worldmark is a bit farther but I'd have that full kitchen and I'd have that washer dryer in room.  

I also want the Aulani experience, no where else on Oahu is there a lazy river, Disney characters, and that inclusive child care that my kids actually like so I can have my vacation too.  

Though we have to weigh out the costs as Disney is expensive. I'll PM you a little later after the Xmas holiday when I have more time


----------



## BocaBum99

Pearl City,

Fair enough.  You are Disney Fanatics and want it at any cost.  Fantastic.  You are not alone.

Let me help you with the proper total cost of ownership economic analysis.

I found a pending deal at The Disney Store for some Grand Californian points.  It's a recent deal, so the numbers are current.

250 annual points at Grand Californian, 327 prior year points available.
    - Purchase Price:  $24,000
    - Closing: $625
Total out the door cost of acquiring:  $24,625.   (Note: the 2013 maintenance fees of $1145 (est) are required at time of close.  However, the points associated with those maintenance fees are not included in this cost of acquisition because those points are not described in the purchase agreement).   Total cash required at close with 2013 maintenance fees:  $25,770.

Also, since you will start usage in 2013, rent off the current available usage at $11/point.  So, you can deduct $327 * $11 = $3597.   So, your adjusted upfront costs are:  $24,625 - $3597 = $21,028.

2013 maintenance fees (act) are:  $4.5752 per point @ 250 = $1143.80

The RTU expires in 2060, so starting in 2013 there will be 48 years of usage left in this ownership.  For the purpose of this analysis, I assume that inflation does not effect the numbers.  This is not a good assumption, but I don't have an inflation forecast, so this assumes that inflation for rentals of DVC and the maintenance fees are about the same over the next 48 years.   It is more likely that MF inflation will exceed rental inflation, so this analysis is a best case.

To get total cost of ownership, you will need to annualize the upfront costs and add the annual fees.   To make an apples to apples comparison, assume you are taking a 48 year loan at 4%.  This works because you turn your upfront costs into annual costs.

A 48 year loan with a 4% interest rate an principal of $21,028 has a monthly payment of $82.18 per month or $986.16 per year.  Add maintenance fees of $1143.80 

Total annual cost of ownership:  $2129.96 for 250 annual points.

For 250 points, you can get 5 nights (Sun-Th) in the Choice Season which is off season.  You need to rent 10 points from Disney at $15/point.  When adding that to the above, you total cost of the stay is $2279.96.  

Total cost per night for Travel on Sun-Th in Oct:  $455.99 

If you want to travel in Mar, that is Magic Season.  So, you can stay 3 nights including both weekend nights for 247 points.

Total cost per night for Travel from Fri-Mon (3 nights) in March is $701.47.

As an FYI, I just checked WorldMark Anaheim for Fri-Mon for March 8-11, 2013, it was 9400 credits and occupancy tax of $63.87.  If you rented the credits at $.055/credit and $50 for housekeeping token, your total cost for a 2br there would be:  $630.87 or $210.29 per night.


----------



## BocaBum99

As a side note, I have done the following analysis several times over the past 8 years and the numbers come out about the same every time.   The conclusion is that by owning a resale DVC, you actually can earn about a 7% return on investment.  

Here is how you compute it.

Take the upfront capital cost of $21,028 that I compute above.   Now, take a loan of $21,028 above at 7.419% interest.  Your monthly payment would be:  $133.85.  Multiply by 12 and you get $1606.20.  Add the MF of $1143.50 and you get about $2750.  This is what you can rent those points off at $11/point.

This must be adjusted for maintenance fee increases that happen annually and would be offset by point rental rate increases over time.  Assuming they equal over the next 48 years, you can choose not to finance the deal, pay cash for the package and you would be saving yourself the 7.419% which is your return on investment.

So, buy that package is actually not a bad deal if you simply rent off the points every year and use it only when you want to use it.


----------



## alwysonvac

PearlCity said:


> Wow! You read my mind. I was wondering what summer availablilty was but didn't want to trouble you further.
> 
> I think I have the husband convinced we should buy.  Just a matter of figuring out how many points to get at this point. Alwayaonvac, thank you so much!



You're welcome 

Regarding, how many points to get...

I suggest thinking about which season you would most likely visit Disneyland, what size unit, how often and for how many days.
For example, if you plan to visit Disneyland, every other year for a week in a two bedroom during the two lowest seasons (Choice & Adventure) then you need at least 390 DVC Points (or 195 DVC points every other year).

You could pick up an Old Key West for 230 DVC points for $12K. NOTE: OKW contracts expire 2042 or 2057.
(see reference #1353933 at this resale site - http://www.fidelityresales.com/Disney-Old_Key_West_Resort_Villas.php)

Link to DVC Points Charts 
Grand Californian - http://advc.disney.go.com/media/dvc...DisneyVacationClub_GrandCalifornianVillas.pdf
Aulani - http://advc.disney.go.com/media/dvc...intsChart_DisneyVacationClub_AulaniVillas.pdf

Link to DVC Maintenance Fee History (per point by DVC resort) - http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/owning-dvc/faqs?task=view&id=51


----------



## DazedandConfused

BocaBum99 said:


> I bought the DVC because it was too good of a deal to pass up.



What are the details of something that is too good of a deal to pass up?

Did you use a popular reseller or did you find a seller on your own

Did you seen the President when he was in Hawaii


----------



## BocaBum99

DazedandConfused said:


> What are the details of something that is too good of a deal to pass up?
> 
> Did you use a popular reseller or did you find a seller on your own
> 
> Did you seen the President when he was in Hawaii



Just a really great purchase price.   I am a broker, so I didn't need to use another reseller to purchase the package.

I did not get inconvenienced by the President.  I am very pleased his trip was cut down to 5 days.  When he is here, it costs Hawaii residents lots of money due to the security requirements of protecting a President and everywhere he goes gets blocked off and jammed.   I think New Yorkers understand.

He stays on the Kailua side of the island.  So, the majority of the traffic jams are there except when he visits the rest of the island to sample all the  famous spots.


----------



## PearlCity

Sorry typing from my phone because I'm having computer issues. 

The numbers really only work in my mind if I buy at Saratoga to stay at VGC which is why alwaysonvac was doing availability posts for me at 7 months out. Based on what I have heard from past friends who have rented from an Orlando owner for disneyland it seems to work. I just never had a full picture of dates available before so akwaysonvac has been nice enough to help out. 

I also run my numbers assuming ill get zero if I resell as you never know what the future holds, which I why I can't get vgc to work for me, in my head. Lol.
But curious, where do you get a 48 year loan at 4 percent?


----------



## frank808

I'll tell you right now that if you plan to get into VGC at the 7 month mark it will be next to impossible.  At the peak times during spring break, summer vacation and major holidays it will be very very hard at the 7 month mark.  It is possible if you book within the first hour exactly at the 7 month mark.  

It has been possible to book VGC within the first week of the 7 month mark in the past.  But this year it has been VERY hard and impossible in some cases.  I tried to book at the 7 month mark for June 15 till 22 2013 and it was not possible.  Tried to book online at exactly 8:00am EST and studios were gone at 8:00am and 12 seconds.  Tried for the whole week waking up early and got not one day in a studio.  You are looking for a 1br and it should be a little easier.  I own at SSR,HHI,OKW and Aulani.  I never bought at VGC since I have been more than able to book at the 7 month mark.  But with my son in school and now we can only go during school breaks it has been getting harder every year.  This year has been near impossible.   It has forced me into buying a VGC contract.  

Just some thought for you pearl city as I am local like you and we love going to VGC and the other places that you like on Oahu.

Actually started off slow buying timeshares and now own Hilton(waikiki), Disney(aulani and grand cal), Marriott(koolina) and Grand Pacific Palisades (legoland) a few others.  Wanted to be able to book where I wanted and when I wanted.  You will love open season at Hilton Hawaiian Village if you decide HGVC is right for you.


----------



## PearlCity

frank808 said:


> I'll tell you right now that if you plan to get into VGC at the 7 month mark it will be next to impossible.  At the peak times during spring break, summer vacation and major holidays it will be very very hard at the 7 month mark.  It is possible if you book within the first hour exactly at the 7 month mark.
> 
> It has been possible to book VGC within the first week of the 7 month mark in the past.  But this year it has been VERY hard and impossible in some cases.  I tried to book at the 7 month mark for June 15 till 22 2013 and it was not possible.  Tried to book online at exactly 8:00am EST and studios were gone at 8:00am and 12 seconds.  Tried for the whole week waking up early and got not one day in a studio.  You are looking for a 1br and it should be a little easier.  I own at SSR,HHI,OKW and Aulani.  I never bought at VGC since I have been more than able to book at the 7 month mark.  But with my son in school and now we can only go during school breaks it has been getting harder every year.  This year has been near impossible.   It has forced me into buying a VGC contract.
> 
> Just some thought for you pearl city as I am local like you and we love going to VGC and the other places that you like on Oahu.
> 
> Actually started off slow buying timeshares and now own Hilton(waikiki), Disney(aulani and grand cal), Marriott(koolina) and Grand Pacific Palisades (legoland) a few others.  Wanted to be able to book where I wanted and when I wanted.  You will love open season at Hilton Hawaiian Village if you decide HGVC is right for you.



Frank808 are you trying for 1 brs and studios or 2 brs?


----------



## heathpack

PearlCity said:


> Sorry typing from my phone because I'm having computer issues.
> 
> The numbers really only work in my mind if I buy at Saratoga to stay at VGC which is why alwaysonvac was doing availability posts for me at 7 months out. Based on what I have heard from past friends who have rented from an Orlando owner for disneyland it seems to work. I just never had a full picture of dates available before so akwaysonvac has been nice enough to help out.
> 
> I also run my numbers assuming ill get zero if I resell as you never know what the future holds, which I why I can't get vgc to work for me, in my head. Lol.
> But curious, where do you get a 48 year loan at 4 percent?



I know it is very tempting to buy SSR to stay at VGC but I personally think that would be a mistake. You live in Hawaii and you will likely use your DVC primarily at VGC or Aulani.  Therefore IMO you should own at one of those places- what will you do if you can't get a VGC reservation with SSR points?  You will be out of luck or else buying plane tix to Orlando (or renting your points out, I suppose).  Not that in Linda's posts, it always looks like there is tons of availability, but at VGC there are mostly scattered days, not full weeks.  It looks like Fri and Sat are the hardest nights to get.  I assume if you fly to LA from Hawaii you will want to stay at least a week.  

VGC is absolutely wide open for VGC owners at 11 months.  You can pretty much get whatever full week you want.  It will be so much easier to use over time than trying to make SSR work reliably. 

H


----------



## PearlCity

heathpack said:


> I know it is very tempting to buy SSR to stay at VGC but I personally think that would be a mistake. You live in Hawaii and you will likely use your DVC primarily at VGC or Aulani.  Therefore IMO you should own at one of those places- what will you do if you can't get a VGC reservation with SSR points?  You will be out of luck or else buying plane tix to Orlando (or renting your points out, I suppose).  Not that in Linda's posts, it always looks like there is tons of availability, but at VGC there are mostly scattered days, not full weeks.  It looks like Fri and Sat are the hardest nights to get.  I assume if you fly to LA from Hawaii you will want to stay at least a week.
> 
> VGC is absolutely wide open for VGC owners at 11 months.  You can pretty much get whatever full week you want.  It will be so much easier to use over time than trying to make SSR work reliably.
> 
> H



Yeah you guys are making me think. Aulani is not my concern as we can go whenever for short stays. I really appreciate everyones input.


----------



## frank808

PearlCity said:


> Frank808 are you trying for 1 brs and studios or 2 brs?



I am going for studio and 1br.  Prefer to use studio for the first half of the trip then get a 1br for the second half.  We went 2 weeks in a studio last year and it was way to small for the 2 of us and 7yr old son.  You would be looking at a 1br if it's the 5 of you.  

Studios are the first to go and hardest to get. 1br do not last much longer.  The 2br are the last to go and I have seen pretty good availability with the 3br for non holidays.

Also if you wanted to book June 24 or later the studios and 1br did last for about a day before being booked.  It could be because the points needed per night went up about 30% because it went from choice season to magic season.

Getting aulani at 7 months is not very hard right now if you will take whatever is available(very possible with you being local).  Meaning if you do not mind a studio, 1br or 2br and views are a non issue you will be able to book with non aulani points.


----------



## alwysonvac

frank808 said:


> I am going for studio and 1br.  Prefer to use studio for the first half of the trip then get a 1br for the second half.  We went 2 weeks in a studio last year and it was way to small for the 2 of us and 7yr old son.  You would be looking at a 1br if it's the 5 of you.
> 
> Studios are the first to go and hardest to get. 1br do not last much longer.  The 2br are the last to go and I have seen pretty good availability with the 3br for non holidays.
> 
> Also if you wanted to book June 24 or later the studios and 1br did last for about a day before being booked.  It could be because the points needed per night went up about 30% because it went from choice season to magic season.
> 
> Getting aulani at 7 months is not very hard right now if you will take whatever is available(very possible with you being local).  Meaning if you do not mind a studio, 1br or 2br and views are a non issue you will be able to book with non aulani points.



There was a thread on the disboards that talked about the difficulty of booking Aulani as well in June 2013 during Choice Season (June 1 -23) before the rates go up in Magic Season for the rest of the summer (June 24 thru Aug 31). 

I'm assuming June during Choice season will always be hard to book at the 7 month mark.

Disboard thread - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3023272


----------



## alwysonvac

heathpack said:


> I know it is very tempting to buy SSR to stay at VGC but I personally think that would be a mistake. You live in Hawaii and you will likely use your DVC primarily at VGC or Aulani.  Therefore IMO you should own at one of those places- what will you do if you can't get a VGC reservation with SSR points?  You will be out of luck or else buying plane tix to Orlando (or renting your points out, I suppose).  Not that in Linda's posts, it always looks like there is tons of availability, but at VGC there are mostly scattered days, not full weeks.  It looks like Fri and Sat are the hardest nights to get.  I assume if you fly to LA from Hawaii you will want to stay at least a week.
> 
> VGC is absolutely wide open for VGC owners at 11 months.  You can pretty much get whatever full week you want.  It will be so much easier to use over time than trying to make SSR work reliably.
> 
> H



I believe Pearl's plan is to book the two bedroom units during non-peak periods. I believe that plan will work with with a non-VGC home resort. VGC two bedrooms require a lot of points therefore they're the last to go.
NOTE: Pearl has previously indicated that she needs a two bedroom and doesn't plan to go during peak periods.

However I think it would be a lot more difficulty getting a studio or one bedroom using a non-VGC home resort since these are in high demand. Based on the availability I posted, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a non-VGC resort if there intent was to mainly stay at VGC in a studio or one bedroom.

Oh by the way, I'm Phyllis (not Linda).

NOTE: I've posted VGC availability three times over the course of the year.
post #31 was on 7/31 for Jan & Feb availability
post #47 was on 9/22 for March & April availability
post #60 was on 12/23 for late March (the week before Easter) through July


----------



## heathpack

alwysonvac said:


> I believe Pearl's plan is to book the two bedroom units during non-peak periods. I believe that plan will work with with a non-VGC home resort. VGC two bedrooms require a lot of points therefore they're the last to go.
> NOTE: Pearl has previously indicated that she needs a two bedroom and doesn't plan to go during peak periods.
> 
> However I think it would be a lot more difficulty getting a studio or one bedroom using a non-VGC home resort since these are in high demand. Based on the availability I posted, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a non-VGC resort if there intent was to mainly stay at VGC in a studio or one bedroom.
> 
> Oh by the way, I'm Phyllis (not Linda).
> 
> NOTE: I've posted VGC availability three times over the course of the year.
> post #31 was on 7/31 for Jan & Feb availability
> post #47 was on 9/22 for March & April availability
> post #60 was on 12/23 for late March (the week before Easter) through July



Sorry for getting your name wrong, Phyllis.

Totally may be worth it for Pearl to take the gamble & buy SSR, but there is no way that any of us can know how Aulani and VGC availability will hold up over time.  I suspect Aulani will remain quite available for many years, because there are so many units and they are very far from being sold out.  VGC, on the other hand, has very few units in a very densely populated region of the country.  If the economy continues to improve, the demand for any lodging at Disneyland can reasonably be expected to increase.  The recent expansion of California Adventure may contribute to demand as well.  The situation is very different IMO than for Easterners who travel to DVC resorts- there are many options to choose from, if you can't get your first, second or third choice, you'll surely get your fourth- at the same cost in time and dollars as your first 3 choices.  This is not at all the case for someone in Hawaii- if they don't get Aulani or VGC, they need to travel twice as far to get to an East coast DVC.  For Pearl, as I understand it, the usefulness of ownership is greatly diminished if the VGC reservations cannot be reliably obtained for years to come.

Personally, we went through the same thought process- we live in LA, mostly want VGC, really wanted to minimize costs.  We were very tempted to buy SSR but in the end decided against it because we wanted to ensure an ongoing usefulness over many years.  Ultimately we decided the cost in dollars was worth the decreased cost in effort at getting the reservation we wanted.

So I would agree with you Phyllis- buying SSR might work for Pearl.  But it might not.  Buying VGC would for sure work.  Only Pearl can decide if for her particular circumstance the additional expense of VGC is worth it.

H


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## DazedandConfused

One simple strategy is to rent points for $10-11pp from an owner at the exact location you want to visit and book there at the 11 month window as there are $0 upfront costs with this option and you can get around the 7 month window limitation of all other DVC owners.


----------



## frank808

heathpack said:


> Sorry for getting your name wrong, Phyllis.
> 
> Totally may be worth it for Pearl to take the gamble & buy SSR, but there is no way that any of us can know how Aulani and VGC availability will hold up over time.  I suspect Aulani will remain quite available for many years, because there are so many units and they are very far from being sold out.  VGC, on the other hand, has very few units in a very densely populated region of the country.  If the economy continues to improve, the demand for any lodging at Disneyland can reasonably be expected to increase.  The recent expansion of California Adventure may contribute to demand as well.  The situation is very different IMO than for Easterners who travel to DVC resorts- there are many options to choose from, if you can't get your first, second or third choice, you'll surely get your fourth- at the same cost in time and dollars as your first 3 choices.  This is not at all the case for someone in Hawaii- if they don't get Aulani or VGC, they need to travel twice as far to get to an East coast DVC.  For Pearl, as I understand it, the usefulness of ownership is greatly diminished if the VGC reservations cannot be reliably obtained for years to come.
> 
> Personally, we went through the same thought process- we live in LA, mostly want VGC, really wanted to minimize costs.  We were very tempted to buy SSR but in the end decided against it because we wanted to ensure an ongoing usefulness over many years.  Ultimately we decided the cost in dollars was worth the decreased cost in effort at getting the reservation we wanted.
> 
> So I would agree with you Phyllis- buying SSR might work for Pearl.  But it might not.  Buying VGC would for sure work.  Only Pearl can decide if for her particular circumstance the additional expense of VGC is worth it.
> 
> H



In previous years it was not a problem to book in choice season. With the DCA expansion and Aulani opening up, there is a greater demand at VGC.  Imagine how many points were sold at all the Disney World resorts compared to the amount of points at VGC?  I bet VGC would amount to less than 5% of the total points sold at all the Disney World locations.  A lot of DVC members are stopping off at DL going to or from Aulani so that is putting a lot of pressure on the limited units at VGC.  

If pearl is going for a 2br it would be a lot easier than trying for a 1br or studio.  I would have to say from experience that if you book your VGC reservation at exactly the time member services open up at the 7 month mark it would be possible.  I wouldn't think any rooms would be available 3 hours after member services opens though.  Probably the points cost leaves those 2br the last to be booked. 

I was fine using the 7 month mark booking VGC.  This year it was just impossible for me to book any day for june 16-23.  Woke up early every morning at 7am eastern for a whole week.  When I checked all studios and 1br were gone by 7:01 am!  This craziness has driven me to look for a contract to buy at VGC as to avoid the headache.  

I have seen Aulani book out for different rooms for certain days in July and June at the 8 month mark.  But if you are willing to go from studio to 1br or 2br you can get something right now at Aulani at the 7month mark or even a week out (except for most major holidays).  

Good luck in your quest pearl.


----------



## frank808

DazedandConfused said:


> One simple strategy is to rent points for $10-11pp from an owner at the exact location you want to visit and book there at the 11 month window as there are $0 upfront costs with this option and you can get around the 7 month window limitation of all other DVC owners.



Good luck finding VGC points for rent at $11 at the 11 month mark.  I have been trying but either they do not have enough points or they want more than $11.


----------



## BocaBum99

frank808 said:


> Good luck finding VGC points for rent at $11 at the 11 month mark.  I have been trying but either they do not have enough points or they want more than $11.



I think the market is as follows:

$10/point for no work for someone else to rent your points.

$11/point to list points on a board for transfer

$12/point for booking at 11 months

$13/point for hassle free booking at 11 months

$8-10/point for last minute bookings using expiring or cancelled points.


----------



## PearlCity

Yeah you guys are convincing me to just suck it up and buy vgc. It'll be less headache and stress in the long run in planning Disney vacations. I just wanted more points for aulani as I really truly can go anytime over there. But no reason why I can't get a 160-200 point package for vgc and another smaller point package at ssr for aulani stays and even occasional Orlando trips. I thought a 2 be was what I would book all the time but really there may be times where I really would only need a 1 be, and then owning at vgc May make sense.  just gotta figure out the $$ part. 

Thank you all for your help and insight. 

Sorry its taking me so long to respond! It's so busy this time of year!


----------



## presley

PearlCity said:


> Yeah you guys are convincing me to just suck it up and buy vgc.



I think you will be happier doing it that way.  I owned VGC and owners of other resorts frequently asked me if I would trade points with them.  More often than not, it was a SSR owner who bought SSR to use at VGC.


----------



## DazedandConfused

BocaBum99 said:


> $12/point for booking at 11 months
> 
> $13/point for hassle free booking at 11 months



Even if rental rates are $12-13, the 2013 annual dues is as follows:

Animal Kingdom Villas $5.6749
Aulani Hawaii (Pre July 27, 2011) $4.7716
Aulani Hawaii (Post July 27, 2011) $6.2529
Bay Lake Tower $4.4972
Beach Club Villas $5.6458
Boardwalk Villas $5.8409
Grand Californian $4.5752
Hilton Head $6.0213
Old Key West $5.3447
Saratoga Springs $4.8129
Vero Beach $7.4076
Wilderness Lodge $5.7931

Thus, if you subtract one of the numbers above ($4.57 for Cali or $6.25 for Hawaii) then the NET rental cost is around $5.75 - 8.43 per point (depending on what numbers you use.

So, the real question is - how long would it take to break even to buy and is it worth it. 

I would guess resales are at least $80 for California, so your break even is 10-14 years. After that point, your vacations will only cost annual dues or you can resell the timeshare and keep all the money as pure profit (whatever that may be)

Also, if you buy in one location such as California, you can ONLY book 11 month at that location and then must compete with everyone else a the 7 month mark. Do you really want to buy and LOCK yourself into only one location. That is the advantage of renting from an owner at the particular location you want.

From what I read, SSR seems to be the best bargain for DVC, but you will not book Cali or Hawaii at 11 months.


----------



## DazedandConfused

Another way to look at it is:

Buy DVC California for $85, pay $4.57 dues, and then rent the points for $13 and that is a 10% ROI  

That is better than most people's investments these days.


----------



## BocaBum99

DazedandConfused said:


> Another way to look at it is:
> 
> Buy DVC California for $85, pay $4.57 dues, and then rent the points for $13 and that is a 10% ROI
> 
> That is better than most people's investments these days.



Your investment return analysis is incorrect.  First, the $13 is too much.   That is how much DVC rental brokers get and they advertise heavily.  You will either have to spend a lot on marketing or get less.  You can get $12/point if you do it yourself and assign the value of your time as zero.  Otherwise, the real rate of rentals is $11/point.

Also, you cannot assume that you will get $85 back at the end of life of ownership since this is a leasehold.  It will be worth zero at the end of 48 years.  You must depreciate it.   So, you are really talking between 7-8% return on invested capital.


----------



## icydog

BocaBum99 said:


> Your investment return analysis is incorrect.  First, the $13 is too much.   That is how much DVC rental brokers get and they advertise heavily.  You will either have to spend a lot on marketing or get less.  You can get $12/point if you do it yourself and assign the value of your time as zero.  Otherwise, the real rate of rentals is $11/point.
> 
> Also, you cannot assume that you will get $85 back at the end of life of ownership since this is a leasehold.  It will be worth zero at the end of 48 years.  You must depreciate it.   So, you are really talking between 7-8% return on invested capital.



$13 is a very fair price for Disney Vacation Club in CA.  He would have no trouble getting it.


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## PearlCity

Just for my info can someone post the vgc availability for Octpber as we are 7 months out from my actual usual travel dates to Disney? I'm loong for that vgc contract but the asking prices are going way up.. I'm almost getting priced out of VGC if this trend continues...


----------



## icydog

PearlCity said:


> Just for my info can someone post the vgc availability for Octpber as we are 7 months out from my actual usual travel dates to Disney? I'm loong for that vgc contract but the asking prices are going way up.. I'm almost getting priced out of VGC if this trend continues...



The only way would be if a VGC member signed into the website.  Otherwise you can call member services and they can tell you the availability there for October.


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## PearlCity

icydog said:


> The only way would be if a VGC member signed into the website.  Otherwise you can call member services and they can tell you the availability there for October.



I thought 7 months out anyone could see what is on there. We are at 7 months from the first week of October which is all I'm interested in. I don't care to go any other week in October.


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## rhonda

Oct 1-9, 2013 at VGC right now:

* Studio: 3 of the 8 nights are available (a Thurs night, and Mon/Tues nights together)
* 1BR: 6 of the 8 nights are available (the 3rd through the 9th)
* 2BR: 6 of the 8 nights are available (Wed/Thurs together; Sat through Tues nights together)


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## BocaBum99

PearlCity said:


> Just for my info can someone post the vgc availability for Octpber as we are 7 months out from my actual usual travel dates to Disney? I'm loong for that vgc contract but the asking prices are going way up.. I'm almost getting priced out of VGC if this trend continues...



I love Disney, but I cannot justify the cost of staying at a DVC resort using DVC points.  I rented 440 points out for $11/point without doing any advertising.  I just listed them with David's DVC rentals.

At that rate, the opportunity cost for 1br oceanview unit in choice season is 50 * $11 = $550.  I cannot justify spending $550 for one night in a 1br unit.  There are tons of better choices than that.

Open Season rates for a 1br Premier unit at HHV are $140-160 for comparison.  2br Premier is $160-180.

I am afraid that the only way I am going to stay at Aulani or the Grand Californian is if it ever makes it into RCI.

Actually, there was an independent exchange company offering a Grand Californian 2br unit for Mar 16-23, 2013 last minute for $1300.  If I weren't already committed, I would have taken that one.


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## Beefnot

BocaBum99 said:


> Actually, there was an independent exchange company offering a Grand Californian 2br unit for Mar 16-23, 2013 last minute for $1300.  If I weren't already committed, I would have taken that one.



Holy moly, which exchange was that?


----------



## PearlCity

Yes its something we need to think through before purchasing, but I think.with Dvc you either love it or don't. For me the excitement that the kids get with Disney I can't put a price on, but I know financially, it does not make sense if you are just looking for a nice place to stay.


----------



## cthewrld

I am not sure this is the place to ask, or allowed to ask, but I have been thinking about buying DVC points at Grand Californian, does anyone have an idea of how much points cost from DVC, when I was in DL, I was told there were no points available by one of the marketing guys in the park, and a couple of people on disboards said they were on a waiting list. I bought my Marriotts resale and looked into resale for GCV but I would like to know the differences in prices.


----------



## slum808

You'll need to go on the waitlist to buy dvc direct. It's currently $135 going up to $145 in a couple weeks. Buy resale its $95-105.


----------



## PearlCity

slum808 said:


> You'll need to go on the waitlist to buy dvc direct. It's currently $135 going up to $145 in a couple weeks. Buy resale its $95-105.



I spoke to a guide in Hawaii today and was told you have to be an existing Dvc owner to waitlist. Is that true?


----------



## cthewrld

That's what we were told by a salesperson in California just before they started building GCV, he was trying to sell us Animal Kingdom.


----------



## slum808

I haven't heard that before, but I'm not really sure. As a new owner I think the minimum purchase would be 160 points.


----------



## MichaelColey

BocaBum99 said:


> I love Disney, but I cannot justify the cost of staying at a DVC resort using DVC points. I rented 440 points out for $11/point without doing any advertising. I just listed them with David's DVC rentals.
> 
> At that rate, the opportunity cost for 1br oceanview unit in choice season is 50 * $11 = $550. I cannot justify spending $550 for one night in a 1br unit. There are tons of better choices than that.
> 
> Open Season rates for a 1br Premier unit at HHV are $140-160 for comparison. 2br Premier is $160-180.
> 
> I am afraid that the only way I am going to stay at Aulani or the Grand Californian is if it ever makes it into RCI.


I'm with you.  We *DID* do a single night in a 2BR at Aulani (about 50 points), just to be able to experience it, but we won't be going back until it's available for exchange.

We did get a 2BR exchange into VGC, and it was awesome.  Loved it more than any of the Orlando resorts.  You literally walk right out into DCA.  Big units.  Great Disney feel.


----------



## dvc_john

cthewrld said:


> That's what we were told by a salesperson in California just before they started building GCV, he was trying to sell us Animal Kingdom.



I'm not sure of the current waitlist situation, except that I heard that anyone on the waitlist would get the current price when/if the waitlist came through.
There was a temporary preference period while VGC was under construction.  Since it has so few units, they thought it would sell out fast, so they gave anyone who purchased a WDW resort from the California sales office first chance at buying VGC when sales started. 

I bought a small add-on at VGC (from the Florida sales office) after the preference period was over without any difficulty.


----------



## Beefnot

After our recent 4-day stint to DisneyLand, we were absolutely enamored with the idea of staying at VGC.  I just cannot seem to justify the exorbitant cost of doing so, and will have to hold my breath for the opportunity to one day via an exchange.  

I have noticed that some folks buy tiny DVC contracts.  What is the benefit of doing so?


----------



## presley

Beefnot said:


> I have noticed that some folks buy tiny DVC contracts.  What is the benefit of doing so?



The Florida DVC discounts are really good.  It isn't the case in California.  For many on the east coast, buying a small contract just to get discounts on APs is a good deal.


----------



## slum808

*VGC resale prices moving up*

From the timesharestore e-mail listing. List price has moved up about $20-$25 since I bought two years ago. I'm not in the market to buy so I haven't inquired, but I've heard on other boards that these listings have been selling in the first couple days at list price. I know Disney was ROFRing at $95 last year. I'm not sure if they'd exercise ROFR at $115. 

The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel® & Spa --Annual Dues $4.58 per point

100 points. June use year. 79 points coming on 6/1/13 and 100 points coming on 6/1/14 Closing Costs: $425 Annual Dues at Closing: $361.82 Priced at *$112/pt *($11200) Total Price: $11986.82 Ref# GCAL100-06-0302-js

100 points. December use year. 10 points currently available and 100 points coming on 12/1/13 Closing Costs: $425 Annual Dues at Closing: $458 *Priced at $115/pt *($11500) Total Price: $12383 Ref# GCAL100-12-0302-js

125 points. April use year. 125 points coming on 4/1/13 and 125 points coming on 4/1/14. Closing Costs: $480 Annual Dues at Closing: $572.5 *Priced at $110/pt *($13750) Total Price: $14802.5 Ref# GCAL125-04-0304-js


----------



## MichaelColey

Beefnot said:


> I have noticed that some folks buy tiny DVC contracts. What is the benefit of doing so?


For me, it's entirely for the WDW AP discounts.  My 25 point contract was under $2k, and MFs are about $125.  The offer a $150 discount on WDW APs to DVC members.  With 5 of us, that's about an $800 discount (after taxes) every time we buy APs.


----------



## PearlCity

slum808 said:


> From the timesharestore e-mail listing. List price has moved up about $20-$25 since I bought two years ago. I'm not in the market to buy so I haven't inquired, but I've heard on other boards that these listings have been selling in the first couple days at list price. I know Disney was ROFRing at $95 last year. I'm not sure if they'd exercise ROFR at $115.
> 
> The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel® & Spa --Annual Dues $4.58 per point
> 
> 100 points. June use year. 79 points coming on 6/1/13 and 100 points coming on 6/1/14 Closing Costs: $425 Annual Dues at Closing: $361.82 Priced at *$112/pt *($11200) Total Price: $11986.82 Ref# GCAL100-06-0302-js
> 
> 100 points. December use year. 10 points currently available and 100 points coming on 12/1/13 Closing Costs: $425 Annual Dues at Closing: $458 *Priced at $115/pt *($11500) Total Price: $12383 Ref# GCAL100-12-0302-js
> 
> 125 points. April use year. 125 points coming on 4/1/13 and 125 points coming on 4/1/14. Closing Costs: $480 Annual Dues at Closing: $572.5 *Priced at $110/pt *($13750) Total Price: $14802.5 Ref# GCAL125-04-0304-js



I know its been nuts. It's just in the last month that TTS had pushed asking pricescrs this high. I'm wondering what they are actually getting because in the past listings have lasted a few hours, these have been up a couple of days


----------



## Beefnot

MichaelColey said:


> For me, it's entirely for the WDW AP discounts.  My 25 point contract was under $2k, and MFs are about $125.  The offer a $150 discount on WDW APs to DVC members.  With 5 of us, that's about an $800 discount (after taxes) every time we buy APs.



So over a 10-yr period, as long as you buy annual passes for five people in at least 5 of those 10 years, then the investment will be worth it.  

Quick backathanapkin: 

$2k acquisition cost plus MFs of $115 ($4.58 per point, assuming static) x 10 years = $3150

$800 AP savings per year x 4 years = $3,200 (wash).  So anything above 4 years will produce net positive benefit.

Of course I am completely ignoring the 25 points for stays, which does have some value (though I have no idea how much actual utility given it is such a small contract)

EDIT: Thinking further, assuming that 25 points can be rented at $11 per point, then the breakeven changes: $3150 - (25 pts x $11 x 10yrs) = $400

Wow, so it pays for itself for just one annual pass purchase for the family.


----------



## capjak

PearlCity said:


> I know its been nuts. It's just in the last month that TTS had pushed asking pricescrs this high. I'm wondering what they are actually getting because in the past listings have lasted a few hours, these have been up a couple of days



This is why calculations of point costs are so difficult.  IF  you buy resale at Grand California (one of the harder resorts to get into at 7 months) and than turn around in 15 years and sale, you may only lose $10-15 per point.  In the good ole days when there were no restrictions on resale units and still 35 years use left on the original DVCs,  people bought disney and made about $10 per point upon resale....but those days are gone


----------



## Beefnot

capjak said:


> This is why calculations of point costs are so difficult.  IF  you buy resale at Grand California (one of the harder resorts to get into at 7 months) and than turn around in 15 years and sale, you may only lose $10-15 per point.  In the good ole days when there were no restrictions on resale units and still 35 years use left on the original DVCs,  people bought disney and made about $10 per point upon resale....but those days are gone



Ah, hadn't even considered recoupment of investment.  Where does one buy DVC contracts by the way?

EDIT: Oh, found that DVC by Resale site in the sticky.  Holy crap, I could buy a couple Vero Beach contracts at $45 per point, use what I need and rent out the rest.  I might be able to make the numbers work to justify plopping down cash for DVC.  I live local to VGC, so I could take 3 or 4-day leftovers at 7 months no problem.  Hm.  Let me chew on this some more.


----------



## capjak

Beefnot said:


> Ah, hadn't even considered recoupment of investment.  Where does one buy DVC contracts by the way?
> 
> EDIT: Oh, found that DVC by Resale site in the sticky.  Holy crap, I could buy a couple Vero Beach contracts at $45 per point, use what I need and rent out the rest.  I might be able to make the numbers work to justify plopping down cash for DVC.  I live local to VGC, so I could take 3 or 4-day leftovers at 7 months no problem.  Hm.  Let me chew on this some more.



True but  vero expires in 2042  (you can get it for $35 likely) and the MFs are the highest see below


2013 Maint. & TaxesPer Point
Animal Kingdom	         $5.67  expires 2057
Aulani Villas, Hawaii	 $6.25  expires 2060
Bay Lake Tower	         $4.50  expires 2060
Beach Club Villas	$5.65   expires 2042
Boardwalk	                $5.84   expires 2042
Grand Californian	$4.58   expires 2060
Hilton Head	        $6.02   expires 2042
Old Key West	        $5.34   expires 2042
Saratoga Springs	$4.81   expires 2054
Vero Beach	        $7.41   expires 2042
Wilderness Lodge	$5.79    expires 2042


----------



## presley

Beefnot said:


> EDIT: Oh, found that DVC by Resale site in the sticky.  Holy crap, I could buy a couple Vero Beach contracts at $45 per point, use what I need and rent out the rest.  I might be able to make the numbers work to justify plopping down cash for DVC.  I live local to VGC, so I could take 3 or 4-day leftovers at 7 months no problem.  Hm.  Let me chew on this some more.



Don't.  Stop.  Go back.  
Vero annual dues are steep and being on the beach, you can count some special assessments.  Although, at least the assessments get folded into the MFs over time, but still, expensive.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want VGC and only VGC, it is not worth buying another DVC resort.


----------



## capjak

presley said:


> Don't.  Stop.  Go back.
> Vero annual dues are steep and being on the beach, you can count some special assessments.  Although, at least the assessments get folded into the MFs over time, but still, expensive.
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want VGC and only VGC, it is not worth buying another DVC resort.



Totally agree Vero is very difficult to sale for the reasons you state.  If you have the upfront cash, buy what you want, where you want, when you want. PERIOD  It makes life so much easier (in the timeshare world anyway)


----------



## Beefnot

Thanks capjak and presley. I modeled up a quick and dirty spreadsheet analysis and toyed with different assumptions around how long i hold the timeshare (with straightline depreciation of the price as I approach RTU expiration, don't know if that is a good assumption) and how many points I use vs. rent out.  Believe it or not, Vero Beach still appears to be the most economical. However, my avg. nightly cost is still much higher than I can justify at this time. Alas. I so want to stay at VGC.


----------



## PearlCity

Beefnot said:


> Thanks capjak and presley. I modeled up a quick and dirty spreadsheet analysis and toyed with different assumptions around how long i hold the timeshare (with straightline depreciation of the price as I approach RTU expiration, don't know if that is a good assumption) and how many points I use vs. rent out.  Believe it or not, Vero Beach still appears to be the most economical. However, my avg. nightly cost is still much higher than I can justify at this time. Alas. I so want to stay at VGC.



Unlike some of the other systems, DVC isn't reallly economical.  It's more emotional I think.  It's matter of how much you want to pay for that disney vacation.


----------



## capjak

PearlCity said:


> Unlike some of the other systems, DVC isn't reallly economical.  It's more emotional I think.  It's matter of how much you want to pay for that disney vacation.



It is econimically if you already stay at least every other year in a Deluxe resort like the DVC properties or Deluxe Hotel units (Grand Floridian).

Having stated that most of my TS purchases are emotional purchases, finances is likely a close second.


----------



## MichaelColey

Beefnot said:


> So over a 10-yr period, as long as you buy annual passes for five people in at least 5 of those 10 years, then the investment will be worth it.
> 
> Quick backathanapkin:
> 
> $2k acquisition cost plus MFs of $115 ($4.58 per point, assuming static) x 10 years = $3150
> 
> $800 AP savings per year x 4 years = $3,200 (wash). So anything above 4 years will produce net positive benefit.
> 
> Of course I am completely ignoring the 25 points for stays, which does have some value (though I have no idea how much actual utility given it is such a small contract)
> 
> EDIT: Thinking further, assuming that 25 points can be rented at $11 per point, then the breakeven changes: $3150 - (25 pts x $11 x 10yrs) = $400
> 
> Wow, so it pays for itself for just one annual pass purchase for the family.


If you assume that you can rent your points out for at least your MFs (and they currently go for more than double that), you can just ignore that part of the equation.  I don't remember my exact cost, but I think it was actually closer to $1600 (but definitely under $2000), so it basically paid for the purchase with two purchases of 5 APs.



capjak said:


> It is econimically if you already stay at least every other year in a Deluxe resort like the DVC properties or Deluxe Hotel units (Grand Floridian).


I think most of us wouldn't consider Disney Deluxe hotel very economical, either.  It's kind of like saying buying First Class tickets at full fare is economical if you normally rent a private jet.


----------



## PearlCity

MichaelColey said:


> If you assume that you can rent your points out for at least your MFs (and they currently go for more than double that), you can just ignore that part of the equation.  I don't remember my exact cost, but I think it was actually closer to $1600 (but definitely under $2000), so it basically paid for the purchase with two purchases of 5 APs.
> 
> I think most of us wouldn't consider Disney Deluxe hotel very economical, either.  It's kind of like saying buying First Class tickets at full fare is economical if you normally rent a private jet.



Yup for me I've done the motel thing, small room for six of us, sat in a laundromat while my kids played in the room with daddy, made multiple trips to the store for milk because the mini fridge was to small for gallon sized milks, walked far.. I fly from Hawaii to me all that is,time wasted. For us to fit on an on property hotel we,have to rent two hotel rooms, and thats Expensive with all the same issues. It's a quality thing for me. Yeah I could not  go to disney but we like it. So I'm looking into buying Dvc and I want to stay at vgc. So looking to buy there. Expensive? Yes but like my husband said he rather continue driving our brat up 2001 Honda civic if it means we can have a nicer vacation.


----------



## rhonda

PearlCity said:


> Just for my info can someone post the vgc availability for Octpber as we are 7 months out from my actual usual travel dates to Disney? I'm loong for that vgc contract but the asking prices are going way up.. I'm almost getting priced out of VGC if this trend continues...





PearlCity said:


> We are at 7 months from the first week of October which is all I'm interested in. I don't care to go any other week in October.





rhonda said:


> Oct 1-9, 2013 at VGC right now:
> 
> * Studio: 3 of the 8 nights are available (a Thurs night, and Mon/Tues nights together)
> * 1BR: 6 of the 8 nights are available (the 3rd through the 9th)
> * 2BR: 6 of the 8 nights are available (Wed/Thurs together; Sat through Tues nights together)


Not sure if you had spotted the response to your question on availability before the thread took a different turn ...

Edited to add:  Just checked again using 10/1-10/13. The second week (10/7 forward) is currently good for Studio, 1BR and 2BR.  The dates 10/1-10/7 are mostly blocked.


----------



## PearlCity

rhonda said:


> Not sure if you had spotted the response to your question on availability before the thread took a different turn ...
> 
> Edited to add:  Just checked again using 10/1-10/13. The second week (10/7 forward) is currently good for Studio, 1BR and 2BR.  The dates 10/1-10/7 are mostly blocked.



Thank you I did!! It looks like its booked up for gay days weekend, which also is dd' s birthday weekend. Availability looks good but if I could choose I would want to.spend her birthday there. So I talked to my husband, we are going to offer in at vgc contracts first, if we are unsuccessful and can find a decent deal at Orlando then we may buy there.


----------



## Beefnot

presley said:


> Don't.  Stop.  Go back.
> Vero annual dues are steep and being on the beach, you can count some special assessments.  Although, at least the assessments get folded into the MFs over time, but still, expensive.



I had an error in my model that I fixed.  Yes, you're right, Vero is definitely no good.  Saratoga Springs I might be able to make work.  If I purchased 300 points, then used 208 points (4 nights in 2br, low season) at $4.81 per point for $1k, while renting out the other 92 at $11 per point for about $1k, then that would be a wash on an annual basis, so no net annual outlay.

Thus I only would need worry about my acquisition cost.  If I amortize my purchase price of $65 per point for $19.5k over the life of the contract (assuming I would diligently only stay 4 nights per year for ~40 years), then that would work out to $19.5k / 160 nights = ~$120 per night.  

I also modeled in a straight line depreciation of the point value as the unit approaches expiration, so in my model, the only hit I'd take that would increase my cost per night if I sold prior to expiration would be a broker commission that I estimated at 10% of the net proceeds.  Is that linear depreciation of point values a decent assumption?

Am I missing something else in my calcs?



presley said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want VGC and only VGC, it is not worth buying another DVC resort.



If I'm very flexible on dates, and willing to stay in low season, what is the downside of not purchasing at VGC?  Should I really ever expect to be locked out of availability in low season?


----------



## BocaBum99

Beefnot said:


> I had an error in my model that I fixed.  Yes, you're right, Vero is definitely no good.  Saratoga Springs I might be able to make work.  If I purchased 300 points, then used 208 points (4 nights in 2br, low season) at $4.81 per point for $1k, while renting out the other 92 at $11 per point for about $1k, then that would be a wash on an annual basis, so no net annual outlay.
> 
> Thus I only would need worry about my acquisition cost.  If I amortize my purchase price of $65 per point for $19.5k over the life of the contract (assuming I would diligently only stay 4 nights per year for ~40 years), then that would work out to $19.5k / 160 nights = ~$120 per night.
> 
> I also modeled in a straight line depreciation of the point value as the unit approaches expiration, so in my model, the only hit I'd take that would increase my cost per night if I sold prior to expiration would be a broker commission that I estimated at 10% of the net proceeds.  Is that linear depreciation of point values a decent assumption?
> 
> Am I missing something else in my calcs?
> 
> If I'm very flexible on dates, and willing to stay in low season, what is the downside of not purchasing at VGC?  Should I really ever expect to be locked out of availability in low season?



I still think you have an error in your calculations.

300 points at $4.81 are maintenance fees of $1443.

If you used 208 and rented 92 @ $11/point, you would receive back proceeds of $1012.  Your net cost would be $1443-1012 = $431.  That is not a wash.

You forgot that you still have to pay maintenance fees on the points you rent.  You assumed that the maintenance fees on those points would be $0 just because you rented them.  For you to net $11/point, you would have to receive proceeds of $15.81/point.


----------



## presley

Beefnot said:


> If I'm very flexible on dates, and willing to stay in low season, what is the downside of not purchasing at VGC?  Should I really ever expect to be locked out of availability in low season?



During low season, you will probably be fine to book weekdays at 7 months out.  It will be hard to get weekends.  

VGC was the first TS I ever bought.  I didn't want to plan my visits to DL 11months in advance since I live driving distance.  I had limited success booking about 6 months out, but never booked a weekend.  It wasn't a good choice for me, so I got out.

That being said, if my life ever changed to where I knew I'd want to stay at VGC consistently and I could plan it 11 months out, I'd buy there again.  I wouldn't care about resale vs. developer.  In the meantime, I'm happier staying on the hotel side of California Grand and will soon to have points for Peacock suites.  

For those of you looking to buy DVC, there is a thread on Mouseowners.com that has a link to a type of database.  You could enter what you are looking for (points, resort, use year, price) and it will show you everything on the market and which reseller is selling it.  Looks like a nice way to keep on top of VGC listings in one easy location.


----------



## Beefnot

BocaBum99 said:


> I still think you have an error in your calculations.
> 
> 300 points at $4.81 are maintenance fees of $1443.
> 
> If you used 208 and rented 92 @ $11/point, you would receive back proceeds of $1012.  Your net cost would be $1443-1012 = $431.  That is not a wash.
> 
> You forgot that you still have to pay maintenance fees on the points you rent.  You assumed that the maintenance fees on those points would be $0 just because you rented them.  For you to net $11/point, you would have to receive proceeds of $15.81/point.



D'oh.  Thanks for pointing out this glaring error.  Completely overlooked that.  Now I'd have to purchase closer 400 points to produce an annual wash in costs.  I can play with cost per point and number of points to produce a pretty compelling value proposition for me.  If I purchase 400 points at $60 per, still using 208 points and renting out the rest, I could get my nightly cost down to <$105 per night.  I just need to pony up $24k.  Eek.

And also, I realize I'm completely disregarding time value of money in this analysis.  I'll get around to that later.


----------



## BocaBum99

Beefnot said:


> D'oh.  Thanks for pointing out this glaring error.  Completely overlooked that.  Now I'd have to purchase closer 400 points to produce an annual wash in costs.  I can play with cost per point and number of points to produce a pretty compelling value proposition for me.  If I purchase 400 points at $60 per, still using 208 points and renting out the rest, I could get my nightly cost down to <$105 per night.  I just need to pony up $24k.  Eek.
> 
> And also, I realize I'm completely disregarding time value of money in this analysis.  I'll get around to that later.



Wow.  You are really having a hard time with this analysis.  Using your own numbers it would be $24,000 over 160 nights = $150 assuming zero opportunity cost.

Assuming that you could get a 40 year loan for 6%, the way to compute your cost per night is as follows.   This would represent an opportunity cost of 6% on your money meaning that you could invest that $24,000 in investment vehicles that returned 6% on average over 40 years.

Using your HP 12c financial calculator:

n = 40 * 12
i = 6% / 12
pv = $24,000

then, monthly payment = $132.05
annual payment = $1584.62 over 4 nights = $396 / night is your real cost assuming that rental rates keep up with maintenance fee increases.

Instead of doing all that work, what I would do is wait for Disney owners with expiring points to book the reservations you want for $8/point.  Since you are travelling off season, this shouldn't be that hard.

208 * 8 = $1664.  That is about the same net cost of doing all that work managing the DVC.


----------



## got4boys

Beefnot said:


> I had an error in my model that I fixed.  Yes, you're right, Vero is definitely no good.  Saratoga Springs I might be able to make work.  If I purchased 300 points, then used 208 points (4 nights in 2br, low season) at $4.81 per point for $1k, while renting out the other 92 at $11 per point for about $1k, then that would be a wash on an annual basis, so no net annual outlay.
> 
> Thus I only would need worry about my acquisition cost.  If I amortize my purchase price of $65 per point for $19.5k over the life of the contract (assuming I would diligently only stay 4 nights per year for ~40 years), then that would work out to $19.5k / 160 nights = ~$120 per night.
> 
> I also modeled in a straight line depreciation of the point value as the unit approaches expiration, so in my model, the only hit I'd take that would increase my cost per night if I sold prior to expiration would be a broker commission that I estimated at 10% of the net proceeds.  Is that linear depreciation of point values a decent assumption?
> 
> Am I missing something else in my calcs?
> 
> If I'm very flexible on dates, and willing to stay in low season, what is the downside of not purchasing at VGC?  Should I really ever expect to be locked out of availability in low season?



I would take into account on how long you intend to keep the unit or whether you will hold it until RTU date. 

I would not assume that the property devalues.

For example, when Old Key West opened, presales - was $48 per point. After it opened in October of 1991, it was $51. Even on the resale market today, they are at listed at a minimum of $55 per point.  Also, in the beginning, DVC offered free park passes to those who bought as a perk, and now discontinued, only offering discount. Currently through DVC, they are $100 per point.

Another example is the Bay Lake Tower. I purchased a few years ago during the Black Friday deal, when it was $97 per point. Okay, it is Bay Lake and a little more than I wanted to pay, but now I wished I would have bought more. I saw the resale market at that time and saw that smaller contracts moved a lot faster than the larger ones, so I purchased through DVC and chose a December Use Year (you get the free points for the previous year) since when you buy and a current owner, you get the points right away.

I have owned it for a couple of years, and if I wanted to sell it, I can for what I paid for it! Not only that, Disney is buying back on ROFR on December use years at BLT, so I could ask for more!

FYI...I would buy Sarataga Springs, but not such a large contract. They are harder to sell.


----------



## Beefnot

BocaBum99 said:


> Wow.  You are really having a hard time with this analysis.  Using your own numbers it would be $24,000 over 160 nights = $150 assuming zero opportunity cost.



No, not having a hard time at all.  You forgot about the 400 points. If I rent out 192 of the 400 points, I'd net out $188 ($192*11 - $4.81*208), which works out to $47/night towards the $150, which = $103/night.

As for the rest of your comment:



BocaBum99 said:


> Assuming that you could get a 40 year loan for 6%, the way to compute your cost per night is as follows.   This would represent an opportunity cost of 6% on your money meaning that you could invest that $24,000 in investment vehicles that returned 6% on average over 40 years.
> 
> Using your HP 12c financial calculator:
> 
> n = 40 * 12
> i = 6% / 12
> pv = $24,000
> 
> then, monthly payment = $132.05
> annual payment = $1584.62 over 4 nights = $396 / night is your real cost assuming that rental rates keep up with maintenance fee increases.
> 
> Instead of doing all that work, what I would do is wait for Disney owners with expiring points to book the reservations you want for $8/point.  Since you are travelling off season, this shouldn't be that hard.
> 
> 208 * 8 = $1664.  That is about the same net cost of doing all that work managing the DVC.



I see your math, but I don't understand the point of it, and I find it terribly misleading.  First of all, I would not be taking a loan, and I would assume the opportunity cost of letting my $24k sit and collect interest at 6% would be per annum not compounded monthly.  And I only care about cost per night in today's dollars, and thus the only valid piece of analysis I need to account for is the present value of the accrued interest on that $24k that I would otherwise have enjoyed.  Even then, assuming that the relationship between MFs and rental income remains constant, your $396 per night which seems very high, would never change, and is quite low in comparison to the $1,200 per night in year 40 that a $120 room in today's dollars would cost.

EDIT: The $1,200 assumes 6% growth in room rates, which could be high.  In any case, if I was doing a pure financial calculation of this vacation cost tradeoff, I would only care about the differential in real terms, not nominal.


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## Beefnot

got4boys said:


> I would take into account on how long you intend to keep the unit or whether you will hold it until RTU date.
> 
> I would not assume that the property devalues.
> 
> For example, when Old Key West opened, presales - was $48 per point. After it opened in October of 1991, it was $51. Even on the resale market today, they are at listed at a minimum of $55 per point.  Also, in the beginning, DVC offered free park passes to those who bought as a perk, and now discontinued, only offering discount. Currently through DVC, they are $100 per point.
> 
> Another example is the Bay Lake Tower. I purchased a few years ago during the Black Friday deal, when it was $97 per point. Okay, it is Bay Lake and a little more than I wanted to pay, but now I wished I would have bought more. I saw the resale market at that time and saw that smaller contracts moved a lot faster than the larger ones, so I purchased through DVC and chose a December Use Year (you get the free points for the previous year) since when you buy and a current owner, you get the points right away.
> 
> I have owned it for a couple of years, and if I wanted to sell it, I can for what I paid for it! Not only that, Disney is buying back on ROFR on December use years at BLT, so I could ask for more!
> 
> FYI...I would buy Sarataga Springs, but not such a large contract. They are harder to sell.



Good info, thanks much.  If I were to jump in, I might by a couple of contracts rather than a large one.  But even so, if it is more difficult to sale, that may mean to get sold they have to go for lower cost per point.  If I sell low, that also means I probably bought low too, and maybe they would cancel out.  I doubt I will be doing anything in 2013, but next year, we shall see...


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## heathpack

got4boys said:


> I would take into account on how long you intend to keep the unit or whether you will hold it until RTU date.
> 
> I would not assume that the property devalues.
> 
> For example, when Old Key West opened, presales - was $48 per point. After it opened in October of 1991, it was $51. Even on the resale market today, they are at listed at a minimum of $55 per point.  Also, in the beginning, DVC offered free park passes to those who bought as a perk, and now discontinued, only offering discount. Currently through DVC, they are $100 per point.
> 
> Another example is the Bay Lake Tower. I purchased a few years ago during the Black Friday deal, when it was $97 per point. Okay, it is Bay Lake and a little more than I wanted to pay, but now I wished I would have bought more. I saw the resale market at that time and saw that smaller contracts moved a lot faster than the larger ones, so I purchased through DVC and chose a December Use Year (you get the free points for the previous year) since when you buy and a current owner, you get the points right away.
> 
> I have owned it for a couple of years, and if I wanted to sell it, I can for what I paid for it! Not only that, Disney is buying back on ROFR on December use years at BLT, so I could ask for more!
> 
> FYI...I would buy Sarataga Springs, but not such a large contract. They are harder to sell.





Beefnot said:


> Good info, thanks much.  If I were to jump in, I might by a couple of contracts rather than a large one.  But even so, if it is more difficult to sale, that may mean to get sold they have to go for lower cost per point.  If I sell low, that also means I probably bought low too, and maybe they would cancel out.  I doubt I will be doing anything in 2013, but next year, we shall see...



Absolutely buy small DVC contracts.  They are more valuable on a $/pt basis when you go to resell, plus you can downsize your ownership if you want to by selling 1 or 2 contracts.  Just make sure they are all in the same UY.  I have two contracts in different UY and it hampers the utility of the points.  When looking at UY, you want one that is just at the beginning of the time you'd be most likely to travel.  In your case, September would likely be ideal.  Interestingly, UY are not evenly spread amongst various months for a given resort.  For example, there might be few to no Sept UY available for VGC, I'm not sure.  There is an article about this somewhere on dvcnews.com. I notice there are a lot of June and Dec UY for VGC.  We have June and it limits the usefulness of our points for May, which is a really nice time for Disneyland.  June would probably be better than Dec for you, however.

Really think long and hard before you buy a non-VGC property.  It's really not possible to predict availability at the 7 month mark over time.  Remember VGC opened and sold out during a down economy and all "historical" availability is during an ecomonic downturn.  Personally I think VGC will get harder and harder to book with nonVGC points at the 7 mo mark.  Of course I could be wrong, but you will probably enjoy your membership much more is you buy something that is guaranteed to work for you.

H


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## Beefnot

Lots to think about. Will be doing a lot of research over the coming months. Can't even believe I would have even gotten this far entertaining the idea of buying into DVC. And to think up until now, I saw DVC ownership as a bunch of koolaid-drinking, financially irresponsible, silliness. Now look at me.  Them Disney magic spores must still be lodged in my nasal cavity.


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## BocaBum99

Beefnot said:


> No, not having a hard time at all.  You forgot about the 400 points. If I rent out 192 of the 400 points, I'd net out $188 ($192*11 - $4.81*208), which works out to $47/night towards the $150, which = $103/night.
> 
> As for the rest of your comment:
> 
> 
> 
> I see your math, but I don't understand the point of it, and I find it terribly misleading.  First of all, I would not be taking a loan, and I would assume the opportunity cost of letting my $24k sit and collect interest at 6% would be per annum not compounded monthly.  And I only care about cost per night in today's dollars, and thus the only valid piece of analysis I need to account for is the present value of the accrued interest on that $24k that I would otherwise have enjoyed.  Even then, assuming that the relationship between MFs and rental income remains constant, your $396 per night which seems very high, would never change, and is quite low in comparison to the $1,200 per night in year 40 that a $120 room in today's dollars would cost.
> 
> EDIT: The $1,200 assumes 6% growth in room rates, which could be high.  In any case, if I was doing a pure financial calculation of this vacation cost tradeoff, I would only care about the differential in real terms, not nominal.



Are you sure you took a finance class anywhere?  Your cost modeling is extraordinarily weak.  

As for the opportunity cost analysis, if you don't like monthly compounding, switch to annual.  I  basically stated that your opportunity cost is 6% compounded monthly.  That's a reasonable expected return on a $24k investment.  It is a perfect way to model opportunity cost because the RTU ends at which time your investment is zero (assuming it was 40 years left on the contract you wanted to buy).   In fact, it is so close to a real return that you would be hard pressed to find anything even close to as good as this model.

In addition, now that you have explained how you got an extra $47 per night savings, that is a ridiculously flawed model to forecasting savings over a 40 year period.  The maintenance fees on 400 points would be 400 * $4.81 = $1924.  The rental income you forecast is 11 * 192 = $2112.   Then, you take the difference and divide by 4 to get $47.   Are you kidding?  The difference between the maintenance fees and the rental income is within 10%.  That's basically break even. If the market changes and you only get $10/point one year, your income is $1920.  $0 savings.   So, I didn't include your savings because it's not realistic.  Moreover, you presume 100% occupancy that you will use all 4 days every year and you will rent out all of your points.   I am 100% sure that won't happen every year for 40 years.


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## Beefnot

BocaBum99 said:


> Your analysis is so flawed and your understanding of finance so weak, it's not even worth responding to this message because you won't understand it.



Suits me. An easy out from having to deal with your own analytical flaws.


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## Beefnot

BocaBum99 said:


> Are you sure you took a finance class anywhere?  Your cost modeling is extraordinarily weak.
> 
> As for the opportunity cost analysis, if you don't like monthly compounding, switch to annual.  I  basically stated that your opportunity cost is 6% compounded monthly.  That's a reasonable expected return on a $24k investment.  It is a perfect way to model opportunity cost because the RTU ends at which time your investment is zero (assuming it was 40 years left on the contract you wanted to buy).   In fact, it is so close to a real return that you would be hard pressed to find anything even close to as good as this model.
> 
> In addition, now that you have explained how you got an extra $47 per night savings, that is a ridiculously flawed model to forecasting savings over a 40 year period.  The maintenance fees on 400 points would be 400 * $4.81 = $1924.  The rental income you forecast is 11 * 192 = $2112.   Then, you take the difference and divide by 4 to get $47.   Are you kidding?  The difference between the maintenance fees and the rental income is within 10%.  That's basically break even. If the market changes and you only get $10/point one year, your income is $1920.  $0 savings.   So, I didn't include your savings because it's not realistic.  Moreover, you presume 100% occupancy that you will use all 4 days every year and you will rent out all of your points.   I am 100% sure that won't happen every year for 40 years.



As I pointed out, I prefer annual over monthly compounding. In any case, my simplistic approach was to extrapolate nightly rates in today's real dollars across the entire contract horizon. Using your $396, i don't place equal weight between the $396 paid in month one and the $396 paid in month 480.  $396 is may be my "real" cost in year 1, but it may only be he cost of a night at the movies in year 40.  I do not remember as much as I'd like from my finance classes in business school, but I recall enough to feel comfortable with my personal finance decisions (after I clean up formula errors in my spreadsheets of course), but thanks for the effort in trying to school me...and the condescension along the way.

As for my analysis of the renting out the 192 points, your original criticism was of my math, which was sound, but now you have shifted it to one of logic or feasibility.  As to the feasibility of doing this year in year out, you may be absolutely right, I dunno, so I wouldn't even attempt to debate that at this time.


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## MichaelColey

Small contracts may seem like a better value, but don't forget that they are typically more expensive when you try to buy them and a large part of the closing costs are fixed, so they can cost quite a bit more per point upfront.


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## Beefnot

MichaelColey said:


> Small contracts may seem like a better value, but don't forget that they are typically more expensive when you try to buy them and a large part of the closing costs are fixed, so they can cost quite a bit more per point upfront.



Fair point.  If I pull the trigger on a DVC contract, I am not going to be worried about selling it.  I could rent out all the points for $11, er I mean, $10 per point or just wait patiently until my contract sells should I need to sell.  I dunno, not worried about exit plan.  

My interest is gathering for shelling out $24k today and locking in my average of $103, oops, $150 per night in real dollars.  Or I could take out a _loan_ for the $24k and pay $396 per night in this year and every year for the next 40 years.  In 2050, while the schmuck who listened to bocabum99 is paying, say, $1,200 a night, for their accommodations, I'm still paying $396 per night.  Hm, I wonder what that $396 in 2050 works out to in today's dollars?  Heck, what does a simpleton like me know about all this complicated finance stuff?  I just know that I will never be doing cash rentals for my stays on Disney property.


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## frank808

PearlCity said:


> Unlike some of the other systems, DVC isn't reallly economical.  It's more emotional I think.  It's matter of how much you want to pay for that disney vacation.



DVC is economical versus paying for a room at VGC!  VGC is a different than staying at DVC resorts at disney world.  I have stayed at hotels and timeshares all around Disney Land and nothing is so good as a short walk to your room at VGC.  The other timeshares you have to at least take the ART.  
After my recent trip staying at newport coast villas I will never stay that far away anymore even when the accommodations are very nice.  
Since I am also from hawaii like you pearl, the expression on my sons face is priceless!


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## PearlCity

frank808 said:


> DVC is economical versus paying for a room at VGC!  VGC is a different than staying at DVC resorts at disney world.  I have stayed at hotels and timeshares all around Disney Land and nothing is so good as a short walk to your room at VGC.  The other timeshares you have to at least take the ART.
> After my recent trip staying at newport coast villas I will never stay that far away anymore even when the accommodations are very nice.
> Since I am also from hawaii like you pearl, the expression on my sons face is priceless!



I have to agree , vgc is a unique property. After much helpful discussion from those on this board, running numbers, then deciding even if its expensive we will buy in, we put and offer on a vgc contract, and it got sent to Disney today. If it falls through, we will keep trying..thank you to all my fellow tuggers again!


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## rhonda

PearlCity said:


> we put and offer on a vgc contract, and it got sent to Disney today.


{{ PIXIE DUST }} to you!  Hope it goes through smoothly and quickly!


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## PearlCity

rhonda said:


> {{ PIXIE DUST }} to you!  Hope it goes through smoothly and quickly!



Thank you! I'm glad I looked here for advice. Yes its a lot if money, but I feel like I was able to make an informed decision  ill keep you folks updated!


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## PearlCity

Well the mouse took my contract. I took too long to decide to buy and Disney is just buying the contracts up. Sigh. I'll try one more time...


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## presley

PearlCity said:


> Well the mouse took my contract. I took too long to decide to buy and Disney is just buying the contracts up. Sigh. I'll try one more time...



Try buying a stripped contract.


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## BocaBum99

frank808 said:


> DVC is economical versus paying for a room at VGC!  VGC is a different than staying at DVC resorts at disney world.  I have stayed at hotels and timeshares all around Disney Land and nothing is so good as a short walk to your room at VGC.  The other timeshares you have to at least take the ART.
> After my recent trip staying at newport coast villas I will never stay that far away anymore even when the accommodations are very nice.
> Since I am also from hawaii like you pearl, the expression on my sons face is priceless!



I did the economic analysis of DVC about 8 years ago and concluded that there were options not considered by some people that are available to them if they are willing to spend the big bucks that DVC costs.

If you staying in a resort like WorldMark Anaheim, you could afford to pay for a personal chauffeur and limo that drives you around to all the theme parks and waits for you at the front gate of each theme park.   In addition, you could afford to hire a Disney characters who ride with you in the limo and entertains you at your resort.  You can also have someone decorate your unit with Disney themed everything.

If you really want to wow someone, try that instead.

Once that is all done, it will still be 25% or more less expensive than owning a DVC property.


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## bnoble

<sarcasm>
But it wouldn't be _magical_.
</sarcasm>


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## PearlCity

presley said:


> Try buying a stripped contract.



I'm trying that next.


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## BocaBum99

PearlCity said:


> I'm trying that next.



No, don't purchase a stripped contract unless you factor in $11/point that you can rent the available points for and it is still cheaper.  If it isn't, just offer more for the package with points in it.


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## PearlCity

BocaBum99 said:


> I did the economic analysis of DVC about 8 years ago and concluded that there were options not considered by some people that are available to them if they are willing to spend the big bucks that DVC costs.
> 
> If you staying in a resort like WorldMark Anaheim, you could afford to pay for a personal chauffeur and limo that drives you around to all the theme parks and waits for you at the front gate of each theme park.   In addition, you could afford to hire a Disney characters who ride with you in the limo and entertains you at your resort.  You can also have someone decorate your unit with Disney themed everything.
> 
> If you really want to wow someone, try that instead.
> 
> Once that is all done, it will still be 25% or more less expensive than owning a DVC property.



It's also more economical to live in Florida than Hawaii but you moved here. You probably could buy five houses for the price of yours rent the others out and not have to work at all Some things aren't about money but we get it. It's not economical.  I've done economical in the past. Let me tell you if I wanted economical I wouldn't be looking to buy Dvc, I'd invest in foreclosure properties and rent them out and use the cash for vacation. Oh wait ee. There done that. Oh. And I'm not even old.


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## BocaBum99

bnoble said:


> <sarcasm>
> But it wouldn't be _magical_.
> </sarcasm>



True.  But you could also go to Magic Mountain, Universal Studios, Knott's Berry Farm, the Queen Mary and other non-Disney resorts and have the same great experience.


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## BocaBum99

PearlCity said:


> It's also more economical to live in Florida than Hawaii but you moved here. You probably could buy five houses for the price of yours rent the others out and not have to work at all Some things aren't about money but we get it. It's not economical.  I've done economical in the past. Let me tell you if I wanted economical I wouldn't be looking to buy Dvc, I'd invest in foreclosure properties and rent them out and use the cash for vacation. Oh wait ee. There done that. Oh. And I'm not even old.



I agree that what something is worth is totally up to the person spending the money.  I am fine that you want to make the purchase you do.  I'll bet that you didn't consider the option that I presented, though.

People keep talking about how great it is to be right there on Disney property.  But, I'll bet these people haven't considered what it would be like to be carried in a palaquin from the limo and through the park?  You could afford it.


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## BocaBum99

bnoble said:


> <sarcasm>
> But it wouldn't be _magical_.
> </sarcasm>



Right, but you could hire Harry Potter to be with you in the theme parks for less money than the DVC stay.


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## DazedandConfused

BocaBum99 said:


> People keep talking about how great it is to be right there on Disney property.  But, I'll bet these people haven't considered what it would be like to be carried in a palaquin from the limo and through the park?  You could afford it.



Do you mean "Palanquin"

If so, you need to rent the covered litter and hire at least four or more bearers for the day. Also, Disney will charge admission for the four workers and may or may not allow the "Palanquin" into their parks.

I am not sure what the rental rates in the US are, but I would guess that it would be something like this:

Palanquin rental = $1,000 per day
Bearers = $100 per hour x 8 days x 4 men = $3,200
4 Disney one day tickets for bearers = $400
Tip for Bearers (only in US) = $640

Approximate cost per day = $5,240


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## frank808

BocaBum99 said:


> I did the economic analysis of DVC about 8 years ago and concluded that there were options not considered by some people that are available to them if they are willing to spend the big bucks that DVC costs.
> 
> If you staying in a resort like WorldMark Anaheim, you could afford to pay for a personal chauffeur and limo that drives you around to all the theme parks and waits for you at the front gate of each theme park.   In addition, you could afford to hire a Disney characters who ride with you in the limo and entertains you at your resort.  You can also have someone decorate your unit with Disney themed everything.
> 
> If you really want to wow someone, try that instead.
> 
> Once that is all done, it will still be 25% or more less expensive than owning a DVC property.



Hmm I am into VGC (192pts)for about $1120 a week or $160 daily.  This is during the the second most expensive season at DVC.  This would be summer last week of June till ending of July. This includes the purchase cost (bought resale) and the yearly dues.  Right now I am rounding off SSR maintenance to $5 (actually a little less) and my cost per point over the years left on the purchase of the contract is under $1 per point but I will round up anyway.  

Worldmark anaheim is 10500 points for a week in red.  I believe $864 (11000 points 2013 dues)+ $118 TOT=$982 or $140 a day.  

Purchase cost of about $4000 dollars (worldmark resale) versus $10000 (ssr resale) saves about $6000 divided by 40 years left on SSR contract. So you are saving about $150 a year.  Add $150 plus $138 a week you save by buying Worldmark and you save $288 for the week. Granted you still own the worldmark points and the RTU by Disney is over.   

Please show me how I can rent a personal limo with driver waiting for me at the park all day for 7 days for $300?  How about $700 a week?  I am not seeing how you are saving at the worldmark anaheim and getting a chauffeured limo driver AND a person that is staying with you all day dressed in a disney costume for $300 week.  Buying the disney character a 5 day pass to enter the park with you would be about $300 and he has to wait outside the park the last 2 days.    

I don't know how this all adds up to 25% less expensive than owning at a disney resort.  I would like to know how you came up with your numbers.


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## frank808

PearlCity said:


> It's also more economical to live in Florida than Hawaii but you moved here. You probably could buy five houses for the price of yours rent the others out and not have to work at all Some things aren't about money but we get it. It's not economical.  I've done economical in the past. Let me tell you if I wanted economical I wouldn't be looking to buy Dvc, I'd invest in foreclosure properties and rent them out and use the cash for vacation. Oh wait ee. There done that. Oh. And I'm not even old.



Haha  I also have done what you have pearl.  I dont know about the old part as I am already past 40.


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## PearlCity

frank808 said:


> Haha  I also have done what you have pearl.  I dont know about the old part as I am already past 40.  We stopped buying on Oahu about 8 years ago and moved to buying foreclosures in Las Vegas until about 2 years ago.  The market is CRAZY in las vegas now.  There are a lot of Chinese buyers going after the homes that have the best ROI.  It is still doable but there are multiple offers for a property priced right.  I remember in vegas offering on 2 to 3 properties at one time with no one else bidding on any of the properties.  Banks had no choice in who to sell it to.  Either sell it or keep paying the holding costs.  Also didn't worry when we bid a little under the asking price.  Now you got to go over asking price and the banks are asking more than they would have 2 years ago.  I would say its been about a 15-20 percent increase in selling price from 4 years ago.



I'm a little younger than that  but we should chat offline. I'm interested to see how you do things. We don't own tons, but for our age and what we do in our dsay jobs I'm happy.  We can't rely on social security anymore so our generation needs to plan aquately for retirement. Interesting stuff.


----------

