# how many rentals are RCI exchanges?



## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

I was browsing the Redweek rental section for Disney's Saratoga Springs and i see several that are listed below  MFs for this resort, especially if you take into account the listing and Paypal fees etc.

Why anyone do that unless they are not owners and they actually rent out external exchanges?


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## Shankilicious (May 5, 2019)

Could be scammers, could be people with a lot of DVC points who can't use them, could be people breaking the RCI rule of renting exchanges for profit.
If I had a double my Welk points, I could grad 4 summer weeks and would profit off $600/wk rates.

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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

the number of rental listings on Redweek:

Saratoga Springs: 33 listings
Animal Kingdom: 7
Old key West:8
Polynesian Villas: 1

We know that RCI only deposits Disney's Saratoga Springs so i suspect that many of the listings for this resort come from RCI


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## TravelTime (May 5, 2019)

I am not sure they are renting below maintenance fees. I looked up the first one on Redweek and the MFs works out to a little over $1300 and they are asking $2000. You need to be careful when calculating MFs to be sure you are using the right season, the right unit size and the right MF. Also, keep in mind that if someone rolled over points, their “profit” may still be based on last year’s cost per point.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 5, 2019)

Any disclosure of a $190 fee is obviously an RCI exchange rental.  DVC owners and their renters do not pay that.  If they don't disclose it in the ad, they will disclose it for payment.  You have to pay that at check-in.  They cannot pay it for you.  That is how it works. 

Someone close to me works for Redweek, and she knows a lot of these are RCI exchanges.  Some people want to get their listings verified, and she has to tell them that Redweek cannot verify an RCI exchange, but you can still list it and rent it without Redweek's verification process.  Redweek doesn't want the liability.  But then of course Redweek should probably re-consider their stand on that.  Perhaps Redweek should have a rule against renting exchanges, but they do get that fee, so they continually allow people to do it.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 5, 2019)

One of those OKW listings is mine.  I was able to book studios for five nights and for 7 nights for the period right before Halloween.  I keep hoping to get that rented.  I can cancel without penalty, if no one rents it.  Those exchanges for that period of time are hard to come by.  I would say I have a good chance.


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## Shankilicious (May 5, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> the number of rental listings on Redweek:
> 
> Saratoga Springs: 33 listings
> Animal Kingdom: 7
> ...


I've seen OKW and Boulder Ridge on RCI for this year. Just fyi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## montygz (May 5, 2019)

Disney has been releasing many 1BR SSR units on RCI lately, so it would make sense that people are scooping them up and trying to rent them.


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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I am not sure they are renting below maintenance fees. I looked up the first one on Redweek and the MFs works out to a little over $1300 and they are asking $2000. You need to be careful when calculating MFs to be sure you are using the right season, the right unit size and the right MF. Also, keep in mind that if someone rolled over points, their “profit” may still be based on last year’s cost per point.


i did not mean that they are all RCI exchanges. But look for example, there is a 1 bedroom in July for $1300. That week requires 227 points for a 1 bdr standard and maintenance fees of $1450.


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## TravelTime (May 5, 2019)

The MFs are a bit less than you mentioned. Not sure how you are calculating them.

Assuming these are legit rentals, it would not surprise me that owners at SSI would rent out close to or just slightly above MFs. That is typical for timeshares.


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## OldGuy (May 5, 2019)

I rent a week we own for less than the maintenance fee, and have for years.  I do because I've learned that's the most I can get, reliably, and the most you can get, reliably, is better than nothing at all.  Come to think of it, that's the case with another week that I rent through the Owners Rental Program, because I reliably get some-but-not-all of our fee back.

That has reduced the bleeding in the 11 years I've been trying to find others to transfer weeks we no longer use to.

It's not all bad news, though.  At another resort, I rent for more than our annual fee, and have year-round day use there.


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## TravelTime (May 5, 2019)

At SSI, $6.40 per point X 213 its for a week in June = $1363. The asking price for a rental is higher than that. In the timeshare world, if you can recoup your MFs, then you are doing well. SSI is the least desirable and has availability even now for the next 2 weeks.


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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

on Redweek, look at the week that starts July 27th, $1300. I think that week is 227 points, this is how i got to $1450 in MF. If you take into account Paypal and Redweek fees, that listing is losing money and i am not even taking into account the initial cost of ownership. It does not make sense to me


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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> I rent a week we own for less than the maintenance fee, and have for years.  I do because I've learned that's the most I can get, reliably, and the most you can get, reliably, is better than nothing at all.  Come to think of it, that's the case with another week that I rent through the Owners Rental Program, because I reliably get some-but-not-all of our fee back.
> 
> That has reduced the bleeding in the 11 years I've been trying to find others to transfer weeks we no longer use to.
> 
> It's not all bad news, though.  At another resort, I rent for more than our annual fee, and have year-round day use there.


I assume that you are not referring to a DVC resort


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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Any disclosure of a $190 fee is obviously an RCI exchange rental.  DVC owners and their renters do not pay that.  If they don't disclose it in the ad, they will disclose it for payment.  You have to pay that at check-in.  They cannot pay it for you.  That is how it works.
> 
> Someone close to me works for Redweek, and she knows a lot of these are RCI exchanges.  Some people want to get their listings verified, and she has to tell them that Redweek cannot verify an RCI exchange, but you can still list it and rent it without Redweek's verification process.  Redweek doesn't want the liability.  But then of course Redweek should probably re-consider their stand on that.  Perhaps Redweek should have a rule against renting exchanges, but they do get that fee, so they continually allow people to do it.


i see what you are referring to: on Ebay, there is a 1 bedroom that starts September 1st that mentions:
"There is also a mandatory $190 amenities fee payable on arrival to cover resort activities management."

So for sure this is an RCI exchange


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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

by the way, also on Ebay, this seller vacationstrategyllc has 12 listings that mention the $190 resort fee so this seems to be very lucrative for him or her


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## TravelTime (May 5, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> on Redweek, look at the week that starts July 27th, $1300. I think that week is 227 points, this is how i got to $1450 in MF. If you take into account Paypal and Redweek fees, that listing is losing money and i am not even taking into account the initial cost of ownership. It does not make sense to me



Maybe that person has points that are expiring? Maybe they would rather get something than nothing? That is very common in the timeshare world.


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## TravelTime (May 5, 2019)

Deleted


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## Shankilicious (May 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> There is no such thing as $190 resort fee so it sounds like a scammer. That might explain everything you have mentioned.


Disney has a $190 resort fee when booked through RCI.

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## DannyTS (May 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> There is no such thing as $190 resort fee so it sounds like a scammer. That might explain everything you have mentioned.


yes, there is such a thing as a $190 resort fee but only for RCI exchanges, and that is the point

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUser...ey_s_Old_Key_West_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html


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## frank808 (May 5, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> i did not mean that they are all RCI exchanges. But look for example, there is a 1 bedroom in July for $1300. That week requires 227 points for a 1 bdr standard and maintenance fees of $1450.





TravelTime said:


> The MFs are a bit less than you mentioned. Not sure how you are calculating them.
> 
> Assuming these are legit rentals, it would not surprise me that owners at SSI would rent out close to or just slightly above MFs. That is typical for timeshares.


1450÷227=$6.39 a point mf.  SSR mf is $6.40 a point for 2019.  OKW mf is $7.23 a point for 2019.  But why rent your 2019 points when you can just bank them.  So if they are 2018 points SSR is $5.86 and OKW is $6.72 mf per point.

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## Shankilicious (May 6, 2019)

They might not be Disney owners renting them out for the ones that are through RCI. I can get two weeks in a 1BR at SSR for my annual MF of $1450. Plus Id have the exchange fee of $239ish and guest certificate fee of $66 making each week cost me $1025ish. I make the buyer pay the $190 resort fee so anything over $1100 would be a profit for me.

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## TravelTime (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> yes, there is such a thing as a $190 resort fee but only for RCI exchanges, and that is the point
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUser...ey_s_Old_Key_West_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html



Oh, okay. I own DVC so was not aware of the RCI resort fee. It sounds like this person is breaking the rules by trying to rent RCI exchanges.


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## TravelTime (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> on Redweek, look at the week that starts July 27th, $1300. I think that week is 227 points, this is how i got to $1450 in MF. If you take into account Paypal and Redweek fees, that listing is losing money and i am not even taking into account the initial cost of ownership. It does not make sense to me



Most people who rent out their timeshares do so at breakeven or a loss. SSR is not the most desirable of the DVC collection. I guess this is the most the owner can get, assuming this is not an RCI exchange.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

Because Ebay requires disclosure of all fees, it is easier to spot the RCI exchanges than on Redweek. Most of the ones i clicked disclose this fee so they are RCI exchanges. I looked at the reviews of one of the sellers, they rented the 1 bedroom condos at SSR for as low as $570 per week!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=disney+saratoga+springs&_sop=10

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayIS...searchInterval=30&which=positive&mPg=3&page=2


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I assume that you are not referring to a DVC resort



No.

Mine was a generic answer, as to why owners anywhere would rent for less than their fees.  As others have said, that's not unusual.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> Oh, okay. I own DVC so was not aware of the RCI resort fee. It sounds like this person is breaking the rules by trying to rent RCI exchanges.


It depends.  RCI will allow (semi officially) one to recoup some fees and rent but the only issue is that it's RCI's rule and regardless, those weeks are gone to the rest of the system.  Someone would get them on the exchange side so the one being harmed here are simply other RCI exchangers.



TravelTime said:


> Most people who rent out their timeshares do so at breakeven or a loss. SSR is not the most desirable of the DVC collection. I guess this is the most the owner can get, assuming this is not an RCI exchange.


I can't speak for most people but when I rent I'm usually at around double MF or over and I've done that consistently for more than 20 years including DVC, actually starting when I only owned DVC.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> No.
> 
> Mine was a generic answer, as to why owners anywhere would rent for less than their fees.  As others have said, that's not unusual.


DVC is one of the few timeshares that has resale value. If somebody has to rent out the week/points every year due to health, financial or other reasons, it is more rational to sell the deed than to rent at a loss year after year.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

Dean said:


> Someone would get them on the exchange side so the one being harmed here are simply other RCI exchangers.
> 
> I can't speak for most people but when I rent I'm usually at around double MF or over and I've done that consistently for more than 20 years including DVC, actually starting when I only owned DVC.



Exactly, this is not a victim-less "crime". Aside from RCI members being harmed, the DVC owners are also harmed here. The can't compete in price with those that get them on RCI. There are RCI resorts (like Grandview) where the MF are $420 for a 1bdr, 62,000 points. So theoretically one can get a week at SSR for less than $750.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

I am curious if RCI and DVC have been in touch with them. By the way, they also have lots of Sheraton Vistana Resort, Wyndham Bonnet Creek etc, I assume they are also RCI exchanges. Interesting to note, for Sheraton Vistana Resort they differentiate the Fountains faze but none of the others, exactly like RCI  (there is a separate resort code for the Fountains faze)



https://www.vacationstrategy.com/pages/our-team


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> There are RCI resorts (like Grandview) where the MF are $420 for a 1bdr, 62,000 points.



Grandview in "Vegas"?


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> DVC is one of the few timeshares that has resale value.



Ah, the truth comes out in bits and pieces.  

Can you have that added to all sales presentations?


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Can you have that added to all sales presentations?



what do you actually mean?


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## chalee94 (May 6, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Ah, the truth comes out in bits and pieces.
> 
> Can you have that added to all sales presentations?



They don't even mention it at DVC sales presentations. So I think the answer is no...

People can either do a little homework on the internet, or they can spend thousands on something that will tank in value after they purchase it and probably won't work well for them.


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

chalee94 said:


> They don't even mention it at DVC sales presentations.



That's why I said *all,* to try to make it clear that I was not referring to DVC, the one and only timeshare program that is totally above reproach.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Ah, the truth comes out in bits and pieces.
> 
> Can you have that added to all sales presentations?


I'm not sure if you're tongue in cheek or this is a serious question.  If it's serious then the answer is no because under FL law (and at least many others) they can't make that assertion on sales or rentals.  Actually it's part of the POS to the contrary.  Plus their actual purpose on the sales side is that you think you can sell or rent but that the options are limited because every time you do so, it's a post sale/rental on the retail side.  

I'm not sure I completely agree this hurts DVC members or that it does so inappropriately.  RCI does allow rentals within a set of situations at least on a semi formal basis.  What they will allow even if you ask them, is to recoup direct costs in terms on exchange fee and guest certificate fees.  Done by the letter it'd actually make some rentals lower, not higher.  The fact that DVC refuses to confirm directly or speak directly with a renter is likely a bigger negative on the rental side and that's a specific choice they've made.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> That's why I said *all,* to try to make it clear that I was not referring to DVC, the one and only timeshare program that is totally above reproach.


I can't agree with this.  DVC is just a timeshare, better than many but not better than all.  There are things they do well and things they don't but none of this is altruistic on their part.


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

Dean said:


> I can't agree with this.  DVC is just a timeshare, better than many but not better than all.  There are things they do well and things they don't but none of this is altruistic on their part.



Thank you.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

Dean said:


> RCI does allow rentals within a set of situations at least on a semi formal basis.  What they will allow even if you ask them, is to recoup direct costs in terms on exchange fee and guest certificate fees.


this company's main business seems to be renting RCI exchanges (DVC, Vistana etc) 
https://www.vacationstrategy.com

I am not sure how this kind of business does not hurt the DVC members that try to rent their weeks only to see others renting the same potentially at much lower price.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> this company's main business seems to be renting RCI exchanges (DVC, Vistana etc)
> https://www.vacationstrategy.com
> 
> I am not sure how this kind of business does not hurt the DVC members that try to rent their weeks only to see others renting the same potentially at much lower price.


RCI themselves rents exchangers for less in many cases as well.  Personally I don't think RCI should allow it but IMO that's between RCI and their members.  It doesn't harm DVC members in the whole and the ONLY way to suggest there is any harm is by reducing rental rates which is has not done.  The volume isn't enough to worry about, apparently not enough for RCI to worry about either.  IF if bothers anyone the people to contact would be RCI.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

since i have no doubt that RCI reads these forums, i am curious if they will close the account for this company. If they do not do it, by tolerating it, they  invite other people and companies do the same and at that point the volume does become a bigger problem. I am not sure i agree with you that the current volume is not a problem, even if this company rents only 20 per year, that means that 20 owners did not get to rent their week.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> since i have no doubt that RCI reads these forums, i am curious if they will close the account for this company. If they do not do it, by tolerating it, they  invite other people and companies do the same and at that point the volume does become a bigger problem. I am not sure i agree with you that the current volume is not a problem, even if this company rents only 20 per year, that means that 20 owners did not get to rent their week.


They have been alerted many times about this and similar companies as well as the basic process.  I doubt any owner would miss a rental due to this issue as the demand has historically out paced the supply even in 2009/2010 though it was tougher there and % wise it's a very small number.  I can honestly say I've never reduced my prices based on having trouble renting.  I have had a couple where a renter backed out or I decide to rent later where the lead time was less so I priced those slightly less than I would have otherwise.  I had my first rental in 1995 which included free passes and since about 2000 to 2001 almost all of my stays and essentially all but one of my longer stays have been on exchanges.  Is staying in the exchange and renting the points really any different?


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

you are not advocating people breaking the rules, are you?
there is no doubt in my mind that, even in limited number, these illegitimate rentals do have some impact on some prices and on some owners trying to rent. In the end, if you were given the choice, would you pay $1300 or $2000 for seemingly the same booking?


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## OldGuy (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> would you pay $1300 or $2000 for seemingly the same booking?



Is there a "neither" choice?

(Yes, tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, but, all-the-same, my choice)


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> you are not advocating people breaking the rules, are you?
> there is no doubt in my mind that, even in limited number, these illegitimate rentals do have some impact on some prices and on some owners trying to rent. In the end, if you were given the choice, would you pay $1300 or $2000 for seemingly the same booking?


No and I wouldn't rent an exchange but I'm making the point it's RCI's rules and that in reality it doesn't affect the general membership.  So you could make the point that they are doing those renters a favor giving them access to lower cost rentals, in some cases, where they wouldn't be able to stay at DVC otherwise.  Isn't saving money the entire purpose of a timeshare, otherwise just stay at a resort or condo with cash.


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## DannyTS (May 6, 2019)

i think that RCI is at a loss as well. Many times I have seen on social media people complaining about not finding anything in RCI. If some of these weeks are scooped for commercial purposes, there is just less for other members. Some will find other exchanges but others may just cancel their memberships after a while.


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## Dean (May 6, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> i think that RCI is at a loss as well. Many times I have seen on social media people complaining about not finding anything in RCI. If some of these weeks are scooped for commercial purposes, there is just less for other members. Some will find other exchanges but others may just cancel their memberships after a while.


As I noted above, RCI members are the ones that are losing out.  Personally I think they should stop it and that's from one who does rent.  But not because I feel it hurts me when I rent (which is occasionally), I don't think it affects me at all, but because I think they should follow their own rules but it is their rules.  They will semi officially allow renting depending on the charges but if you read their rules, it should all be against the rules even just recouping direct costs as it is with II.  I'll admit I'm a rule follower and believe that situational ethics (like going over occupancy or having a pet without permission) is something I can't agree with.  It would be almost impossible for RCI to prevent all renting but it would be easy to stop those doing it on any level of scale.


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## OldGuy (May 7, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I am not sure how this kind of business does not hurt the DVC members that try to rent their weeks only to see others renting the same potentially at much lower price.



Perhaps to some my comments have been less than transparent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic, or whatever, but this is the same issue that began when Cendant bought RCI from Christel DeHaan in 1995, and they immediately began renting inventory that had been deposited by members in the exchange pool, which precipitated the Class-action lawsuit in 2006:

*A class action lawsuit against RCI was pursued by Green Welling LLP on behalf of RCI Weeks Program members in New Jersey of 2006. The Plaintiff alleged that RCI actually rents out the most desirable and highly demanded vacation weeks from the spacebank, thus depleting the most desirable options available to Weeks Program members who seek exchanges.*

Although settled in favor of the plaintiffs, it served to legitimize the practice of renting member's deposit, undermining the exclusivity and expense of timeshare ownership.

I could be wrong, but, to me, that appears to be what you are getting at, something that has been SOP for at least ten years.

But, then, I could be wrong.


- - - - - -
Generally speaking, for most weeks, there's a whole lot more supply than demand.  Looking at it from the pure corporate view, if you've got something that you can get a couple hundred bucks for (or maybe nothing at all), or you can get $300, $400, $500, $800, well, the decision makes itself.  Of course, you have to just ignore the implied promises made to owners.

Over time, I have come to appreciate, and embrace, being able to rent stuff for a lot less than maintenance fees and/or exchange fees.  Sometimes you just gotta go with the flow, and take advantage of what is.


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## famy27 (May 8, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> this company's main business seems to be renting RCI exchanges (DVC, Vistana etc)
> https://www.vacationstrategy.com
> 
> I am not sure how this kind of business does not hurt the DVC members that try to rent their weeks only to see others renting the same potentially at much lower price.



Those devils have 2 bedrooms Aulani with the $190 fee. Well, at least we know that Aulani is being deposited in RCI. This LLC must have some well-aged OGSs.


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## DannyTS (May 8, 2019)

https://www.vacationstrategy.com/pages/faq
according to this page:

"*When will the resort have my name? Will I have a confirmation number?*
Your villa will be pulled from Wyndham, Marriott or any of our other vendors immediately upon deposit. The name on the reservation will be in the name of the owner at the time of booking. Your name will be assigned to the unit at about 15 days before check in. This is structured in a way so that we may offer a cancellation policy that works for our owners as well as our clients. There is no need for a confirmation number, the resort only requires a photo ID to check in."

Of course, if you are an owner and book for a guest, the resort will have the names right away. I think only Interval and RCI wait until 2 weeks before the check in to send the names to the resort. Maybe someone can confirm, I am not sure about this


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

If you are very curious, just call and ask how they get their inventory. They should be able to answer. Their website looks legitimate. It looks like they are trying to have a legitimate business. They even put photos of their children online. Maybe this is all a scam but it looks legit.


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

They are offering the 2 BR Aulani units Standard view will above the MF cost. MF cost for the March unit on the website is $3300 and they were asking $4500. I have to assume they are not using RCI inventory and they are helping owners rent unused points.


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

This is their strategy: 
We're Vacation Strategy and we manage unused vacation ownership points. Every year we have un-rented points left over that expire. We'd rather give them away in hopes that you'll come back and book with us in the future!

I am confused as to what the purpose of this thread is?


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> https://www.vacationstrategy.com/pages/faq
> according to this page:
> 
> "*When will the resort have my name? Will I have a confirmation number?*
> ...



They are not owners. Their website clearly says they are renting out unused points.


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## DannyTS (May 8, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> This is their strategy:
> We're Vacation Strategy and we manage unused vacation ownership points. Every year we have un-rented points left over that expire. We'd rather give them away in hopes that you'll come back and book with us in the future!


IMO what they state and the reality, 2 parallel tracks that will never meet


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> IMO what they state and the reality, 2 parallel tracks that will never meet



Their website looks legit. Their strategy looks legit. It sounds like they are helping owners with unused points to rent their TSs.


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## louisianab (May 8, 2019)

famy27 said:


> Those devils have 2 bedrooms Aulani with the $190 fee. Well, at least we know that Aulani is being deposited in RCI. This LLC must have some well-aged OGSs.


Welk RCI exchanges maybe?


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## rickandcindy23 (May 8, 2019)

louisianab said:


> Welk RCI exchanges maybe?


I would guess so. I feel a little annoyed right now.  I would love to get Aulani through exchange, especially a 2 bedroom for us and our kids and grandkids.  I have had an ongoing search for months and months now.  

I loved staying there the one night I paid 50 points for ($350 total cost for me to stay on our points in a 1 bedroom).


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## TravelTime (May 8, 2019)

Here is the email I got when I requested a week. It sounds legit. I suspect the $199 resort fee is their fee, not an RCI fee. Not sure why people thought this was an RCI fee. It is not even the same amount at the RCI fee. Note that $1599 is a couple hundred dollars higher than the MF so they are not renting below MFs. This was for a reservation in June.

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to quote your upcoming vacation. At this time we show availability at Disney's Saratoga Springs and are happy to offer you a total price of $1,599 which includes all taxes. This is a savings of 30% to 50% from Wyndham's Extra Holidays, Orbitz, Expedia or Travelocity prices, however if you should find a better advertised offer from any major travel site we will match it with our best price guarantee.

Vacation Strategy LLC, agrees to hold this reservation for XXXX upon payment of the initial deposit of . For your convenience we accept Visa, MasterCard and Discover. The final balance of $1,599.00 will be due on 5/8/2019.   
Inventory is limited and constantly changing so availability and pricing are not guaranteed until your deposit has been received.

Click Here To Make Your Deposit

Resort Fee:
The resort will charge a non-refundable $199 resort fee upon check-in.

All Disney World resorts charge for overnight parking, the fee is $25 a night.

Cancellation Policy:

THIS RESERVATION CANNOT BE CANCELLED, REFUNDED OR MODIFIED IN ANY WAY.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions, concerns or comments. We are here to serve you!

Sincerely,

Vaca
tion Strategy, LLC 

Local Phone: 407-745-1909
Toll Free Phone: 888-832-4223


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## DannyTS (May 8, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> Here is the email I got when I requested a week. It sounds legit. I suspect the $199 resort fee is their fee, not an RCI fee. Not sure why people thought this was an RCI fee. It is not even the same amount at the RCI fee.


As stated before, DVC charges the $199 fee but only to RCI bookings. 

It is crystal clear to me that most if not all of their listings are RCI exchanges. But since you already sent them an email, why don't you ask them directly if the week you inquired about is an RCI exchange? Also ask them what happens to the reservation if RCI restricts their account.


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## louisianab (May 8, 2019)

This is also curious to me because I've been researching renting DVC points from some of the big points rental sites and parking is free when you rent from an owner via those sites and they also have no additional fee at check-in


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## JohnB3 (May 9, 2019)

DVC owners easily get $14 a point using a third party point rental service so it would be odd to see DVC owners renting these reservations @ $6 or $7 a point on a regular basis I agree you might see it but to be savvy enough to list on redweek but not savvy enough to find David or the like feels wrong.  I talked to one of the rental folks I sometimes work with when I have excess points about renting an RCI reservation (before I knew it was against the rules) and he would not touch the reservation.


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## chalee94 (May 9, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> Here is the email I got when I requested a week. It sounds legit.



When renting a points based reservation, the price is typically listed as a price per point.  This one is not.

"Resort Fee: The resort will charge a non-refundable $199 resort fee upon check-in."

When renting a points based reservation, there are no resort fees from a Disney resort. (Aulani has small tax amounts charged by the state of Hawaii but that's not due at check-in.)

Not sure how this is even a question.


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## paxsarah (May 9, 2019)

chalee94 said:


> When renting a points based reservation, the price is typically listed as a price per point.  This one is not.
> 
> "Resort Fee: The resort will charge a non-refundable $199 resort fee upon check-in."
> 
> ...



Exactly. Anyone renting out Orlando DVC weeks with the resort fee upon check-in (although it's $190, so I don't know why it's off a bit), that's 100% an RCI exchange. There is no other fee that corresponds.


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## famy27 (May 9, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> If you are very curious, just call and ask how they get their inventory. They should be able to answer. Their website looks legitimate. It looks like they are trying to have a legitimate business. They even put photos of their children online. Maybe this is all a scam but it looks legit.



It depends on what you mean by legit. I think they do have inventory and will rent it, so it’s not a scam where they steal your money. However, it’s pretty clear that many of their reservations are RCI exchanges, which is forbidden by RCI. Now whether RCI enforces its rules is a different question, but this does violate the rules and potentially leaves the renter open to having their reservation cancelled


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## TravelTime (May 9, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> As stated before, DVC charges the $199 fee but only to RCI bookings.
> 
> It is crystal clear to me that most if not all of their listings are RCI exchanges. But since you already sent them an email, why don't you ask them directly if the week you inquired about is an RCI exchange? Also ask them what happens to the reservation if RCI restricts their account.



You said the DVC fee was $190. They are charging $199. So this might be a rental fee, not an RCI fee. I did not start the speculation so I think whoever started it should investigate the facts to make sure they are spreading accurate information.


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## TravelTime (May 9, 2019)

You are all assuming that it is easy to rent out Saratoga points at the last minute and that all DVC owners are equally motivated to get the max. If they want the max, they would need to be renting their points at 11 months out. From what I can see, this company has last minute reservations.

The DVC point rental companies usually advertise highly discounted inventory as a weekly rate, not a per point rate. David's and DVC Rentals both say they have distressed inventory and will rent it below the market rate esp if 60 days out. Click down to see their distressed availability and how it is advertised. https://dvcrentalstore.com/discounted-points-confirmed-reservations/

It would be nice if people would inquire with the company before speculating on TUG. TUG could be ruining this company's reputation without the facts. I know I could be wrong but I have not seen any facts exchanged about this company, only speculation.


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## TravelTime (May 9, 2019)

FYI - the trend these days if using a travel advisor is to charge an upfront fee. Travel advisors make little money on bookings.


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## paxsarah (May 9, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> You said the DVC fee was $190. They are charging $199. So this might be a rental fee, not an RCI fee.





TravelTime said:


> Resort Fee:
> *The resort* will charge a non-refundable $199 resort fee upon check-in.



It's not a rental fee, and it's not an RCI fee. It's a Disney fee, and the only fee that comes anywhere close to what's being advertised is the fee Disney charges for incoming DVC RCI exchanges. Maybe they list it as $199 to make it slightly less blatant, because who's going to complain when they expect to pay a $199 fee and Disney only charges them $190? Disney's fees are well-documented, and this is the only one that fits. I really don't quite understand why you're trying to come up with any other explanation for these listings. When a renter discloses that Disney will be charging a resort fee (anywhere in the neighborhood of $190), the only -- only! -- explanation is that it's an RCI exchange.


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## frank808 (May 9, 2019)

chalee94 said:


> When renting a points based reservation, the price is typically listed as a price per point.  This one is not.
> 
> "Resort Fee: The resort will charge a non-refundable $199 resort fee upon check-in."
> 
> ...



If anyone does not know, RCI reservations at Aulani will also pay the $190 fee at check in.  

Transient Accommodations Tax is charged on all timeshare stays in Hawaii and collected by the front desk upon checkin.  It usually shows up as tax per day.

Saw this companies ad and the disclaimer about front desk collecting $199 at check in, makes it more of an RCI exchange.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## frank808 (May 9, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> FYI - the trend these days if using a travel advisor is to charge an upfront fee. Travel advisors make little money on bookings.


That is fine and is collected by the travel agent directly from the customer. This company is having DVC collect their $199 travel advisor fee?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## famy27 (May 9, 2019)

Other tipoffs: 

Other than Aulani, their Disney rentals are all one-week rentals, all are SSR, and all are one bedrooms. Those are the hallmarks of RCI exchanges. DVC owners will often have four-night/long weekend rentals and normally in studios, since those are the most popular. I would imagine that very few owners would book 7-night SSR stays on speculation. Most people rent points or hard-to-get reservations during popular times. But even David's says most renters want to be able to pick their view and unit sizes. They don't want to be stuck with what someone else has booked.

It's crystal clear to me that these are RCI exchanges.


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## TravelTime (May 9, 2019)

If there is clear evidence that this is RCI inventory, then they should be reported to RCI. It is not fair to everyone else when some people break the rules.


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## Pathways (May 9, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> You said the DVC fee was $190. They are charging $199. So this might be a rental fee, not an RCI fee. I did not start the speculation



I respectfully disagree.  From the posts I am reading, the speculation is yours.  Everyone else agrees these are RCI reservations.



TravelTime said:


> The DVC point rental companies usually advertise highly discounted inventory as a weekly rate, not a per point rate. David's and DVC Rentals both say they have distressed inventory and will rent it below the market rate esp if 60 days out. Click down to see their distressed availability and how it is advertised. https://dvcrentalstore.com/discounted-points-confirmed-reservations/



For kicks I checked out your link.  I could not find even* one *offering that was a full week like the RCI weeks this company is advertising.



TravelTime said:


> TUG could be ruining this company's reputation without the facts.



I don't believe anyone is 'ruining' their reputation. We are if fact giving them more advertising/publicity.  (I had never heard of them).  Unless and until RCI decides to start cancelling reservations, ( and don't hold your breath on that) their business will be fine.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 9, 2019)

RCI won't do a thing, and as RCI exchanges, as this is obvious to ME, this company or individual is making a fortune on exchange rentals.  

But go ahead and be naive and believe this is legitimate, but it IS NOT legitimate.  I don't have to pay for parking or pay fees, when I use my own points.  When I take exchanges, I do have to pay the fee of $190.  It used to be $95.  

I don't know how these people get by with this blatant rental of exchanges, but it's clearly what is going on.  II was so good and keeping these exchanges from rental forums.  RCI gets their money, so what do they care.  I am so annoyed, I cannot even believe this.  And the Aulani rentals are especially awful.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 9, 2019)

Also, they do not know the view of the Aulani units on their website.  So they have Aulani for rent, 2 bedrooms, but they all say Standard view.  They cannot put a view. 

This is so disgusting.  I just know they are renting exchanges.  It's obvious.  So much for my RCI "Priority Access" with my platinum account.  I have never gotten one of those 2 bedrooms for exchange.  I would love to have one for $1,500 for my total cost.  Blatant RCI exchange renters, so of course anyone with exchange requests for Aulani might as well give it up.  You aren't going to get it.


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## Pathways (May 9, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Blatant RCI exchange renters, so of course anyone with exchange requests for Aulani might as well give it up. You aren't going to get it


. 

I sincerely doubt RCI is in collusion with them to supply them with weeks.  I would guess they are using OGS's or checking 24/7 for things to show up so technically you have the 'same' chance


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## rickandcindy23 (May 9, 2019)

Pathways said:


> .
> 
> I sincerely doubt RCI is in collusion with them to supply them with weeks.  I would guess they are using OGS's or checking 24/7 for things to show up so technically you have the 'same' chance


I don't think RCI is in collusion with them. 

I cannot get what they are getting, because my OGS aren't picking those up.  So all is not equal, not if they have better than priority access (Platinum).  I think Welk resorts have availability we can never get.  So someone is making a mint on this inventory.  There could be others besides Welk. 

If I can get SSR for January, three units for our kids and grandkids who want to go, I will be happy.  I don't require anything more than a comfy bed and a kitchen, so I don't have to get the AKL or the Boulder Villas, or whatever they call VWL nowadays, but I do try every time to get something else.  It's always SSR.


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## DannyTS (May 10, 2019)

Probably RCI has been  turning a blind eye on this for years. I imagine this company has acquired weeks/points gradually after they saw how lucrative this scheme  can be. This has not started Yesterday. Has RCI  never really noticed that certain members buy every year tens of guest certificates for different people from all over the world? How many siblings, cousins and friends can one have?

If RCI thinks they cannot sever ties with a firm because they do a lot of business with it, they really do not understand the business they are in. The weeks these guys sell are in demand and they would be picked up by other members so RCI would not lose the exchange fee.


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## TravelTime (May 10, 2019)

I was reading that the resorts can also get in trouble for this. They are supposed to identify when this is happening and deny the reservation. I read several stories of people who were not allowed to check in when they got caught. I am surprised DVC is not doing anything to prevent this. I would think it is not in DVC’s best interests to allow people to get in at low rates with illegal RCI exchanges.


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## TravelTime (May 10, 2019)

This might be something that SSR owners should bring to DVC’s attention. There is an annual board meeting, I think. Perhaps some SSR owners can protest and ask DVC to stop this practice. I am mentioning SSR because it happens there the most, it appears.

When people cheat and game the system, it makes me angry. It is not fair and I am angry that DVC and RCI allow this and do not monitor it.


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## TravelTime (May 11, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Because Ebay requires disclosure of all fees, it is easier to spot the RCI exchanges than on Redweek. Most of the ones i clicked disclose this fee so they are RCI exchanges. I looked at the reviews of one of the sellers, they rented the 1 bedroom condos at SSR for as low as $570 per week!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=disney+saratoga+springs&_sop=10
> 
> https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayIS...searchInterval=30&which=positive&mPg=3&page=2



IMO, this reflects that there is more supply than demand for SSR. Let's just say many of these are acquired illegally through RCI. The fact that RCI has so much excess SSR inventory would indicate that SSR is not in as much demand as most of the other DVC resorts. I own desirable DVC resorts and it is hard for me to book into my resorts using DVC points, let alone finding my resorts on RCI.


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## TravelTime (May 11, 2019)

If I were a DVC executive, I would look at improving SSR to increase demand or replacing it with a new concept when the contracts expire. This level of distressed inventory is terrible for DVC as well as SSR owners.


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## frank808 (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> IMO, this reflects that there is more supply than demand for SSR. Let's just say many of these are acquired illegally through RCI. The fact that RCI has so much excess SSR inventory would indicate that SSR is not in as much demand as most of the other DVC resorts. I own desirable DVC resorts and it is hard for me to book into my resorts using DVC points, let alone finding my resorts on RCI.


There is more available inventory at SSR because of the size.  Another component of why so much SSR is available for exchange is the way DVC deposits with RCI.  Lets say someone uses their BCV points for an RCI exchange.  DVC does not have to deposit a BCV unit with RCI.  DVC gets to pick which unit and date to give to RCI.  Because of this RCI gets mostly SSR 1br units for exchanges. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## littlestar (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> If I were a DVC executive, I would look at improving SSR to increase demand or replacing it with a new concept when the contracts expire. This level of distressed inventory is terrible for DVC as well as SSR owners.


I love SSR.  I will gladly stay at SSR    It is the largest DVC at WDW so it makes perfect  sense that it is the last to fill up.  I actually tried to book a week there during fall break and it was booked up.  So it is not always easy to get.  I think the cabins at Poly and Copper Creek, Aulani, Vero, and Hilton Head can make even SSR hard to book at times. 

I am surprised RCI does not crack down on exchange rentals, though.  Maybe they just don’t care about it.


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## Dean (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> If I were a DVC executive, I would look at improving SSR to increase demand or replacing it with a new concept when the contracts expire. This level of distressed inventory is terrible for DVC as well as SSR owners.


From their standpoint there isn't any need to.  This is a member problem not a Disney problem.  There are lots to things they could have done to increase demand up front, not much at this point.  Basically anything that costs them any money is going to be off the table, same for things that have a significant impact on dues.  But the reality is that the location is an issue and even had they put a real effort up front, it would have been difficult to get the demand up to that of many of the WDW resorts.


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## Pathways (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I was reading that the resorts can also get in trouble for this. They are supposed to identify when this is happening and deny the reservation. I read several stories of people who were not allowed to check in when they got caught. I am surprised DVC is not doing anything to prevent this.



This is NOT a DVC issue. (or any other resort, not the resorts job to police this)   No one is breaking a DVC rule.  This is a RCI rule.  RCI would be the one to cancel a reservation.  



TravelTime said:


> I would think it is not in DVC’s best interests to allow people to get in at low rates with illegal RCI exchanges.



No one is getting in at low rates. It's an 'exchange' system.  DVC members deposit their points and use something different in return. DVC chooses the week to deposit to RCI where members can exchange to the DVC week.  RCI uses a points value or TPI # for that exchange.  The entire process is the same each time.  What an exchanger does once they get the week is up to them.  They can follow the rules or not.  

I have weeks/points every year that go to waste b/c I can't use them. I choose to offer them 'free' to friends and family and not try to rent them. If someone can use the week, that is really a low rate.  There is no issue here.


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## JohnB3 (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> If I were a DVC executive, I would look at improving SSR to increase demand or replacing it with a new concept when the contracts expire. This level of distressed inventory is terrible for DVC as well as SSR owners.


I'm not sure DVC has a dog in this hunt.  RCI has a rule against renting exchanges, DVC allows rental.   DVC gets a guest at the parks who pay the $190 fee and the reservations they are required to deposit are deposited and used.  I own at SSR but mostly try to use my points at 7 months elsewhere.  When I want to stay at SSR I use my Grandview points to do that.  As Dean commented earlier RCI have a rule and they ought to try to enforce it but as an SSR owner I don't have an issue with Disney nor do I expect them to police RCI's rules


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## DannyTS (May 11, 2019)

JohnB3 said:


> I'm not sure DVC has a dog in this hunt.  RCI has a rule against renting exchanges, DVC allows rental.   DVC gets a guest at the parks who pay the $190 fee and the reservations they are required to deposit are deposited and used.



Yes and no. Even if this is an RCI rule, DVC may assume (implicitly or explicitly through their contract) that RCI enforces its own rules. Why would DVC want cheap rentals on their properties? I read on  ebay in the comments section for this company that  people paid as little as $600 for a week. 
Concerning  the $190 fee, as stated before, the Disney weeks are in high demand on RCI   so DVC will not lose the revenue if the rule is strictly enforced.


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## JohnB3 (May 11, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Yes and no. Even if this is an RCI rule, DVC may assume (implicitly or explicitly through their contract) that RCI enforces its own rules. Why would DVC want cheap rentals on their properties?
> Concerning  the $190 fee, as stated before, the Disney weeks are in high demand on RCI   so DVC will not lose the revenue if the rule is strictly enforced.


I agree that the minute it impacts Disney's ability to rent deluxe resorts at WDW it will be stopped but I dont think its hurting retail pricing due to SSR's location.  Disney is required to deposit some inventory into RCI and they are systematically depositing their lowest value (SSR 1 bed) inventory.  If it becomes a real issue for Disney they could switch affiliation back to II who seem to do a better job enforcing the no rental rule.


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## TravelTime (May 11, 2019)

I am so tired of this speculation without facts. This happens on many TUG threads, not just here. It seems that Tuggers think they understand corporate strategy. If you did, you should be a CEO by now. I am okay when people ask questions and speculate but it goes to the extreme when people could easily find answers and refuse to do so. Or they like to make up stories and present them as facts without any facts.


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## Pathways (May 11, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> This might be something that SSR owners should bring to DVC’s attention. There is an annual board meeting, I think. Perhaps some SSR owners can protest and ask DVC to stop this practice.





TravelTime said:


> If I were a DVC executive, I would look at improving SSR to increase demand or replacing it with a new concept when the contracts expire.





TravelTime said:


> I am so tired of this speculation without facts. This happens on many TUG threads, not just here. It seems that Tuggers think they understand corporate strategy. If you did, you should be a CEO by now.



I am 100% in agreement with the last post!


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## Pathways (May 11, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Why would DVC want cheap rentals on their properties?



Hard to come up with an answer to your question.  However, what you are referring to that they are getting now, is someone paying rent for an exchange that someone already 'paid' for.

If they shut it down (which I would like to see BTW) and follow the rules which means no rent allowed, then that means there is NO rent charge.  ie: you just went from a 'cheap' rental to one even cheaper  (Free)


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## Dean (May 11, 2019)

Pathways said:


> Hard to come up with an answer to your question.  However, what you are referring to that they are getting now, is someone paying rent for an exchange that someone already 'paid' for.
> 
> If they shut it down (which I would like to see BTW) and follow the rules which means no rent allowed, then that means there is NO rent charge.  ie: you just went from a 'cheap' rental to one even cheaper  (Free)


Renting is within the rules, it's a contractual right.  Renting an exchange is against RCI's rules unless it's just for direct expenses.   One of my life motto's is "Someone else's gain is not automatically one's loss" and it would seem to apply on this topic.


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## Pathways (May 11, 2019)

Dean said:


> Renting is within the rules, it's a contractual right. Renting an exchange is against RCI's rules unless it's just for direct expenses



Thanks for clarifying this for those not reading through the entire thread.  Renting an exchange is of course what we were referencing.



Dean said:


> RCI will allow (semi officially) one to recoup some fees



Based on your earlier post, I interpret renting an exchange as being against the rules in ALL circumstances.  A (semi officially) action would appear to mean that despite rules to the contrary, they are 'looking the other way' under specific conditions.


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## Dean (May 11, 2019)

Pathways said:


> Thanks for clarifying this for those not reading through the entire thread.  Renting an exchange is of course what we were referencing.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your earlier post, I interpret renting an exchange as being against the rules in ALL circumstances.  A (semi officially) action would appear to mean that despite rules to the contrary, they are 'looking the other way' under specific conditions.


As I mentioned earlier in the thread, RCI will allow renting to recoup direct fees (exchange, guest certificate).  When I say semi official, it's not in writing formally but they've told guests repeatedly it's OK, I believe they even posted such on TUG at one time.


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## icydog (May 11, 2019)

I find it frustrating that people are renting Saratoga Springs exchanges.  It’s made it very hard to rent out anything but the Hotel Based resorts at 11 months.  I used to use SSR as my last resort, resort...now I can’t rent out those rooms because people use Google to find Redweek SSR rentals.


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## TravelTime (May 11, 2019)

icydog said:


> I find it frustrating that people are renting Saratoga Springs exchanges.  It’s made it very hard to rent out anything but the Hotel Based resorts at 11 months.  I used to use SSR as my last resort, resort...now I can’t rent out those rooms because people use Google to find Redweek SSR rentals.



I am not an SSR owner but I agree. This is incredibly frustrating. Maybe if a bunch of SSR owners complain to DVC, they will change this. They did listen and revert back to 2019 point charts when enough people complained about the 2020 point chart changes.


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## Lisa P (May 11, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> ...I imagine this company has acquired weeks/points gradually after they saw how lucrative this scheme  can be. This has not started Yesterday. Has RCI  never really noticed that certain members buy every year tens of guest certificates for different people from all over the world? How many siblings, cousins and friends can one have?


Vacation Strategy has been around for a few years, yes. They're regularly mentioned on the DisBoards' Orlando Hotels and Attractions forum as a source of Wyndham Bonnet Creek direct bookings and vacation rentals. As a points manager, they are given access to owner accounts to make reservations for rental customers. Many of their client timeshare points owners have Wyndham Platinum VIP privileges which may include unlimited guest certificates and discounts for reservations made within 60 days of check-in. Vacation Strategy's website does indicate that they favor making reservations within 60 days of check-in.

I'm not sure if they have client timeshare points owners from other systems besides Wyndham but it would not be surprising. Some of their client owners may have platinum exchange company memberships as well, which would provide for unlimited or discounted guest certs. Vacation Strategy may also hold multiple exchange company memberships. Who knows?

Here's my thought (or question)... if they were to use client owners' accounts to access RCI and make exchanges, those various owners' RCI accounts would have the individual guest certificates associated with each of them, wouldn't they? If that occurred (a big IF, admittedly), one RCI account would not accumulate tons of guest certs and raise red flags.



TravelTime said:


> IMO, this reflects that there is more supply than demand for SSR. Let's just say many of these are acquired illegally through RCI. The fact that RCI has so much excess SSR inventory would indicate that SSR is not in as much demand as most of the other DVC resorts. I own desirable DVC resorts and it is hard for me to book into my resorts using DVC points, let alone finding my resorts on RCI.


Unethical, yes. Wrong, yes. Please use caution when claiming something is "illegal".
SSR is desirable and pleasant, just huge. Smaller resorts and resorts located within walking distance (or monorail) of a park will always fill faster. 1BRs at any DVC resort are points-pricy for their occupancy limit so they're the last to book and make the most sense for DVC to deposit when members want to do exchanges.


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

Lisa P said:


> Vacation Strategy has been around for a few years, yes. They're regularly mentioned on the DisBoards' Orlando Hotels and Attractions forum as a source of Wyndham Bonnet Creek direct bookings and vacation rentals. As a points manager, they are given access to owner accounts to make reservations for rental customers. Many of their client timeshare points owners have Wyndham Platinum VIP privileges which may include unlimited guest certificates and discounts for reservations made within 60 days of check-in. Vacation Strategy's website does indicate that they favor making reservations within 60 days of check-in.
> 
> I'm not sure if they have client timeshare points owners from other systems besides Wyndham but it would not be surprising. Some of their client owners may have platinum exchange company memberships as well, which would provide for unlimited or discounted guest certs. Vacation Strategy may also hold multiple exchange company memberships. Who knows?
> 
> ...



It is good someone on TUG is familiar with this company. Are they a legitimate company, from what you know?

Could they go into owner's accounts and book with RCI? Wouldn't the owner find out? Wouldn't this put the owner at jeopardy? Why would an owner allow this anyway?


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## DannyTS (May 12, 2019)

Few days ago on Ebay there were tens of week long SSR listings (several sellers), now there are none! Could this be a coincidence? Maybe Ebay is cracking down on the illegitimate rentals.


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

Or maybe those low prices rent out quickly?

Or maybe the rental companies read TUG and realize we may report them?

Who knows what happens on a sleazy place like eBay?


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## paxsarah (May 12, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> a sleazy place like eBay



Really? EBay has millions of transactions per day, most of which are completely legitimate.


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## Shankilicious (May 12, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> Really? EBay has millions of transactions per day, most of which are completely legitimate.


However, there are also a lot of horror stories with all those transactions. But most of the time the buyer doesn't read all the details before purchasing. 
Years ago when the Wii game system was new, and you couldn't find it in stores, 
people were selling just the box on eBay, and people were buying it for hundreds of dollars. No game system, just the box, even though the description stated that the box was all that was for sale.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## OldGuy (May 12, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> Years ago when the Wii game system was new, and you couldn't find it in stores,
> people were selling just the box on eBay, and people were buying it for hundreds of dollars. No game system, just the box, even though the description stated that the box was all that was for sale.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



Still upset over that box you bought on eBay, huh?



Actually, kind of a semi-accurate comparison of what some people thought they were getting when they bought a timeshare . . . just the box.


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## OldGuy (May 12, 2019)

The irony just struck me.

Timeshare people saying eBay is sleazy.  (No offense to people here.)


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## Shankilicious (May 12, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Still upset over that box you bought on eBay, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, kind of a semi-accurate comparison of what some people thought they were getting when they bought a timeshare . . . just the box.


Lol! Nah. I've been buying on eBay since 02. Haven't gotten "scammed" once. Just gotta pay close attention to the details. 


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

I live in Silicon Valley and have never bought or sold anything on eBay. Actually I do not know many people who use eBay, now that I think about it. I think of eBay like an electronic flea market.


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## Dean (May 12, 2019)

OldGuy said:


> Still upset over that box you bought on eBay, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, kind of a semi-accurate comparison of what some people thought they were getting when they bought a timeshare . . . just the box.


I've probably had more problems with Amazon and Walmart.com over the years than ebay but you have to be careful with anything.  Read the description, read the reviews, etc.  I was looking at something recently on Amazon and there reviews for several different companies selling similar products were almost 100% and a fair volume of reviews but if you looked closer, they were all from that day or the day before.


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## OldGuy (May 12, 2019)

_Over the years, _I've had more problems resolving issues at brick and mortars stores than with third party vendors at Internet sources, what with all their reviews and ratings and reliance on those Internet outlets.

What were we talking about . . . oh yeah DVC rentals, or something.


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## DannyTS (May 12, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I live in Silicon Valley and have never bought or sold anything on eBay. Actually I do not know many people who use eBay, now that I think about it. I think of eBay like an electronic flea market.


Maybe you should sometimes descend to the Earth among mortals


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> Maybe you should sometimes descend to the Earth among mortals



LOL. I like being in outer space with the aliens.


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## paxsarah (May 12, 2019)

I swear, I’m not trying to be an eBay apologist, but this just leapt out at me...



TravelTime said:


> I am so tired of this speculation without facts.





TravelTime said:


> a sleazy place like eBay





TravelTime said:


> I live in Silicon Valley and have never bought or sold anything on eBay


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> I swear, I’m not trying to be an eBay apologist, but this just leapt out at me...



Yes...what does this mean?


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

My non California friends often tell me I am out of touch. But I reply they are out of touch with the way life works in the SF Bay Area and specifically the Silicon Valley.

This would be like telling someone in Hong Kong that they are out of touch with Finland.

Maybe someone like VacationForever who has lived where I live (more or less) understands what I am trying to say?


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

eBay is Dead - this is common knowledge


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## JohnB3 (May 12, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> eBay is Dead - this is common knowledge



As Mark Twain said “reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated” 

Apr 23, 2019 EARNINGS
eBay Inc. Reports First Quarter 2019 Results

Q1 Revenue of $2.6 Billion; GMV of. 22.6 Billion.

Revenue of $2.6 billion
GAAP and Non-GAAP EPS per diluted share of $0.57 and $0.67, respectively, on a continuing operations basis
GAAP and Non-GAAP operating margin of 23.0% and 29.8%, respectively
Returned $1.6 billion to shareholders in Q1, including $1.5 billion of share repurchases and $125 million paid in cash dividends


I’d agree growth has slowed down quite a bit and it’s not likely to grow as in the past but it’s growing and serves a purpose so not dead yet.  I believe there are better places to work in the valley but that’s not the same as dead .   I was an  IT guy before I retired and the valley tech culture is tough.  I still buy a few things on eBay odd technology and vintage stuff are still more available there then elsewhere.


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## frank808 (May 12, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> eBay is Dead - this is common knowledge


News to me that Ebay is dead.  I have stock in company and they are doing ok.  Not spectacular like in the early days,  but still trudging along.

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## Pathways (May 12, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I am so tired of this speculation without facts





TravelTime said:


> eBay is Dead - this is common knowledge



I'm thinking these posts are tongue-in-cheek as the post had a link to a disgruntled nut who sounded like he was shorting the stock.  BTW, in case you caught the link before it was removed, it was dated over TWO YEARS AGO! (a lifetime in silicon valley, which is why I think this was tongue-in-cheek)


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## TravelTime (May 12, 2019)

Sort of tongue in cheek. I found it funny that when I googled the term “ebay is dead” so many articles and discussions pop up. I know they are still a huge dinosaur of a company but that does not mean they can’t be dead too.


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## DannyTS (May 13, 2019)

I am a bit surprised that the SSR listings are still on the website of Vacation Strategy since i am sure that both RCI and DVC monitor TUG.


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## Dean (May 13, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I am a bit surprised that the SSR listings are still on the website of Vacation Strategy since i am sure that both RCI and DVC monitor TUG.


I think RCI has shown little interest in monitoring this issue though they might for this situation.  II is more active in this area of enforcement.


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## mark201235 (Jun 30, 2019)

There is currently a one bedroom unit at Saratoga Springs for Christmas week listed on eBay.  It states the $190 resort fee in the item description. Buy it now price $1199, or best offer. Assuming this unit is an exchange with RCI and if that unit was 45 TPU with RCI, after paying exchange fee and guest certificate it would only be break even for the seller if he/she was at a $19.35/TPU ratio. So they must either have a much better ratio or don’t plan to make much money off of this rental considering the chance they are taking in listing it. It does seem like a steal for a renter at this price if there are no glitches along the way.

Mark


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## paxsarah (Jun 30, 2019)

mark201235 said:


> There is currently a one bedroom unit at Saratoga Springs for Christmas week listed on eBay.  It states the $190 resort fee in the item description. Buy it now price $1199, or best offer. Assuming this unit is an exchange with RCI and if that unit was 45 TPU with RCI, after paying exchange fee and guest certificate it would only be break even for the seller if he/she was at a $19.35/TPU ratio. So they must either have a much better ratio or don’t plan to make much money off of this rental considering the chance they are taking in listing it. It does seem like a steal for a renter at this price if there are no glitches along the way.



If this was an exchange through the Wyndham portal, that week was only 105,000 Wyndham points and could easily make a $2-300 profit at an average MF rate, more if the points were from a lower-MF resort.


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## mark201235 (Jun 30, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> If this was an exchange through the Wyndham portal, that week was only 105,000 Wyndham points and could easily make a $2-300 profit at an average MF rate, more if the points were from a lower-MF resort.



True enough. I didn't think of it that way and I'm even a Wyndham owner !


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## frank808 (Jun 30, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> If this was an exchange through the Wyndham portal, that week was only 105,000 Wyndham points and could easily make a $2-300 profit at an average MF rate, more if the points were from a lower-MF resort.


Is the $2-300 profit after exchange fees and whatever fees there are?  

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## paxsarah (Jun 30, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Is the $2-300 profit after exchange fees and whatever fees there are?



Yes. At an unspectacular MF rate of $6.25 per 1000 points, the MFs for the exchange would be $656, plus the $239 RCI exchange fee and $89 guest certificate. Altogether the cost would be $984, for a profit of $215. If you had a better MF of $5 per 1000, your profit would be $346.


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## frank808 (Jul 1, 2019)

paxsarah said:


> Yes. At an unspectacular MF rate of $6.25 per 1000 points, the MFs for the exchange would be $656, plus the $239 RCI exchange fee and $89 guest certificate. Altogether the cost would be $984, for a profit of $215. If you had a better MF of $5 per 1000, your profit would be $346.


Thanks for the info.

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