# [2010] Have to walk away, any advice?



## B&D_F (Jul 9, 2010)

My wife and I bought at the Welk resort (Villas on the Green) about ten years ago.  We bought the smaller of a two bedroom lockoff unit.  Couple of years later, we traded it for a two bedroom in the older original Welk Resort, few more years and we upgraded back to the VOG, but this time both bedrooms.  Mainly just traded via II.  Last July, we went to see the latest "Mountain" resort and asked to trade down to only one bedroom for financial reasons.  Got convinced into buying two units on a biennial basis (720,000 points) so we could rent one to cover the maintenance fees.  Lied to about the rental program and the REAL likelihood of having maintenance fees getting covered via that method.  Went back to the owners assistance team to let them know we already had a hard time with the old $980 annual maint. fee being due in Dec/Jan and now it would be $1,800 every other year.  Their suggestion was to buy more points and have to "only" pay $1,200 per year instead of $1,800. We told them we felt we were lied to, especially when the contract specifies "no promise of rental income" was made, when in fact, that was the basis of our buying so many points. We just stopped all payments in January and closed the auto pay account. We called the resort and let them know.  They said we should sell the points.  We had about $8k-$9k in equity applied to the $34k of the new loan.  We said just keep everything we have paid over the years and let us out of the contract.  We are still waiting for the notice of default. The $1800 is now $2220 with late fees and that is now with a collection agency.  Spoke to an attorney who wants a $1500 retainer with no guarantees. Can't afford Maint fees and the attorney.  Hope bankruptcy or winning the lottery aren't the only solutions. Please help!


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## timeos2 (Jul 9, 2010)

*Let it go unpaid and take the consequences*

Where to begin? Were you lied to? Yes. But then you signed a form saying that there was no promise of rental income. If that WAS the reason to buy then why wouldn't the written contract say just that? 

In any case thats all water under the bridge. The only thing now is you have a big bill you can't pay. Make a very tough choice. Simply ignore it - you've cut off the payment account and let them know you aren't going to pay. Now let them do what they wish.  If you still owe on the purchase loan they will be more aggressive than if you only owe maintenance. Hopefully if you continue to refuse to pay they will come back with an offer of deed back to avoid foreclosure and then you'll be done with them.  If they take it to foreclosure then you'll have a credit hit but you'll still be out. 

It looks to me like your best bet is to just let it sit and make Welk do what they must. It won't feel good and they will pressure you but if you can't pay thats the bottom line.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 9, 2010)

Instead of waiting for them, I would call and offer the deed in lieu of foreclosure. 

You have been above board up til now and I think that you will rest easier making the offer.

elaine


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## B&D_F (Jul 10, 2010)

glypnirsgirl said:


> Instead of waiting for them, I would call and offer the deed in lieu of foreclosure.
> 
> You have been above board up til now and I think that you will rest easier making the offer.
> 
> elaine



Well, thanks for the advice so far.  As I mentioned before, I have been waiting for Welk to take the next step, like sending me a notice of default, or giving me something to sign to give them back the timeshare, but nothing yet.  

Except that they managed to get my bank to give them a payment out of another account I have with my bank, that is NOT tied to the ACH withdrawal account I originally setup, but that is between me and the bank mostly. 

 I remember reading something on the TUG website (at least I think it was there?) several months ago (before I joined) regarding how to do a "deed in lieu".  Hopefully I can find the proper forms and approach them with that.  I hate this waiting for closure to happen!  

And for the sake of anyone else interested (because I noticed a number of reads, despite only two replies), I'll keep you all (or for Texans "all y'all")posted as to the outcome.  Thanks again for the help.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 10, 2010)

B&D_F said:


> And for the sake of anyone else interested (because I noticed a number of reads, despite only two replies), I'll keep you all (or for Texans "all y'all")posted as to the outcome.  Thanks again for the help.


"All y'all" isn't just Texas.  I dated a 'Bama honey for a spell when I was in school, and she set me proper about "y'all" and "all y'all".

****

Anyway, I agree with the others about being direct with Welk that aren't going to get blood from a turnip.  If you wait for them to act, you are letting them take control of that part of your life.  Better that you contact them and say "We can't manage it; what can we do about it?"

That way you've got a possibility of coming to some kind of a mutually agreeable solution.  If you simply go passive and don't pay, they're simply going to consider you a deadbeat.

You may need to work your way up the management chain.  The bottom level bill collecting people will likely be tied to a specific set of responses - pay or we refer to a collection agency.  Those folks just don't have the authority to do anything else.  To get someone to respond you need to move higher in the organization.


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## Carl D (Jul 10, 2010)

The reason you haven't heard from them is because you are not yet in default.  You are not yet in default because they got your money from a different account. 
Regardless if walking away is the right or wrong thing to do, I would be ripped about them accessing a different account.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 11, 2010)

B&D_F said:


> Except that they managed to get my bank to give them a payment out of another account I have with my bank, that is NOT tied to the ACH withdrawal account I originally setup, but that is between me and the bank mostly.



As a bankruptcy attorney, I deal with creditors removing money from people's bank accounts unexpectedly alot of the time. Do not wait. IMMEDIATELY CLOSE ALL OF YOUR ACCOUNTS WITH YOUR BANK. I am serious. The Welk resort paperwork almost assuredly provides that they can remove money from any account that you have with your bank, not just the one that they were set up to remove it from. 

(and for everyone else reading this, I HIGHLY recommend that you NEVER allow creditors to withdraw money from your account - it can easily become a nightmare).

I see that you are a guest here. Did you know that if you were a member, you would be able to list this resort for sale in the classified section?

elaine


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## B&D_F (Jul 12, 2010)

glypnirsgirl said:


> As a bankruptcy attorney, I deal with creditors removing money from people's bank accounts unexpectedly alot of the time. Do not wait. IMMEDIATELY CLOSE ALL OF YOUR ACCOUNTS WITH YOUR BANK. I am serious. The Welk resort paperwork almost assuredly provides that they can remove money from any account that you have with your bank, not just the one that they were set up to remove it from.
> 
> (and for everyone else reading this, I HIGHLY recommend that you NEVER allow creditors to withdraw money from your account - it can easily become a nightmare).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice!  I was hoping to not go through changing banks again, like when WAMU got bought by Chase, but the thought of not being able to stop them is definitely worth the brief pain.

I did become a member the several days ago.  Perhaps I don't know how to post as a member.  My bad.  I think I'm going to see the bank first and Welk second this week.  More news by the end of the week at the latest.  Again, thanks everyone.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2010)

B&D_F said:


> I did become a member the several days ago.  Perhaps I don't know how to post as a member.



When you joined TUG, you received an email with a member's code that you have to add to your profile.  If you can't find the email and code, click on *TUG Resort Databases*  at the top of the page. 

Scroll down and click on *MEMBERS CLICK HERE TO LOG IN*, log in, and the member's code will be in the top box.

    To add the member's code, click on *USER CP* in the blue bar at the top of the page.

    Then click on* EDIT BBS MEMBER CODE*

    Then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, put the code in the box, and *save it*.


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## B&D_F (Jul 23, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> When you joined TUG, you received an email with a member's code that you have to add to your profile.  If you can't find the email and code, click on *TUG Resort Databases*  at the top of the page.
> 
> Scroll down and click on *MEMBERS CLICK HERE TO LOG IN*, log in, and the member's code will be in the top box.
> 
> ...



Thanks again, Denise!  I was able to fix my status from Guest to TUG Member.

As an update to anyone following this situation, my bank finally credited me back with the money and as soon as my direct deposit gets switched (three weeks - ouch! )to the other bank, I will close all accounts with the offending bank.

As to dealing with Welk - I have been having a hard time getting the name of the right person to talk to.  I am either going to make a visit there or keep searching for the name of the person I need to talk to who has a title like "President" or "Director" or such.  I'm not so sure what to say except to explain what is wrong and ask how do we resolve this.  Will they take the property back including everything we have paid over the years and just resell it to someone else?  We will sign over whatever we have to, we just want to be done with it.  Maybe I'm being too naive, or maybe he or she will be able to get it done for us.  Either way, I'm going to keep those interested updated with the results.


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## timeos2 (Jul 23, 2010)

*It is horrible - no other way to say it*



B&D_F said:


> As to dealing with Welk - I have been having a hard time getting the name of the right person to talk to.  I am either going to make a visit there or keep searching for the name of the person I need to talk to who has a title like "President" or "Director" or such.  I'm not so sure what to say except to explain what is wrong and ask how do we resolve this.  *Will they take the property back including everything we have paid over the years and just resell it to someone else? * We will sign over whatever we have to, we just want to be done with it.  Maybe I'm being too naive, or maybe he or she will be able to get it done for us.  Either way, I'm going to keep those interested updated with the results.



That, take it over and pay back what was paid over the years, is NOT going to happen. At best you could hope they might accept it back & you owe nothing more - they don't have to do even that small bit. Selling any timeshare has always been a challenge and right now it is nearly impossible due to the incredible amount of owners looking to get out of the annual fees at all types of resorts - good & bad and times from the worst to super prime. There are 100 or maybe even 1000 for every possible willing buyer - it is a buyers market that has never been seen before. If you can give it away and be done you are ahead of most looking to sell.


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## Patri (Jul 23, 2010)

I think he meant they could keep everything he has already paid.


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## PhillyChic (Aug 8, 2010)

B&D_F said:


> As to dealing with Welk - I have been having a hard time getting the name of the right person to talk to.  I am either going to make a visit there or keep searching for the name of the person I need to talk to who has a title like "President" or "Director" or such.  I'm not so sure what to say except to explain is wrong and ask how do we resolve this.  Will they take the property back including everything we have paid over the years and just resell it to someone else?  We will sign over whatever we have to, we just want to be done with it.  Maybe I'm being too naive, or maybe he or she will be able to get it done for us.  Either way, I'm going to keep those interested updated with the results.



Unfortunately, I come up against this all the time. Do you still own money on the mortgage? Or just the maintenance fees?

If you still owe money on the mortgage they will probably have to go through the entire foreclosure process in order to legally reclaim the property. This will most likely be reported against your credit. If there is no mortgage on the property it's a lot easier for them to reclaim without damaging your credit. Most resorts, especially ones that are still selling their own property, would be willing to do either a deed in lieu of foreclosure or a quit claim deed. If you're offered an option, do a quit claim deed back to the developer. If you have to do a deed in lieu, you'll still be free of the property, however, it will be a public record that may hurt you in the future.


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## tsproblem (Jul 3, 2015)

*result:*

BD&F

what was your outcome all these years later?? i am in Welk now and have the same issue. i will send them a DIL with my notice of no more payments. 

i owe a lot after only 2 years of no use and now family health issues. i am current on everything as of now, though.
Please share!


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## tsproblem (Jul 3, 2015)

what was your outcome after all these years?


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## Passepartout (Jul 3, 2015)

That person has not been on TUG for 5 years. If they still are linked to a valid email address, you can click their blue username and select send message by email. It may or may not work.

If you are in bad financial straits, Welk might accept a deed back, but frankly they'd rather have the payments. Sometimes, after falling a few payments behind, they're more apt to accept. You'll have to get with the sales department, or owner services, or the board of directors. The nice little lady who answers the phone can't help you.

All the best.

Jim


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## tsproblem (Jul 5, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> That person has not been on TUG for 5 years. If they still are linked to a valid email address, you can click their blue username and select send by email. It may or may not work.
> 
> If you are in bad financial straits, Welk might accept a deed back, but frankly they'd rather have the payments. Sometimes, after falling a few payments behind, they're more apt to accept. You'll have to get with the sales department, or owner services, or the board of directors. The nice little lady who answers the phone can't help you.
> 
> ...



 Thanks Jim. I sent an email and will hope for a response! Do you have experience with a deed back or do you own at welk? My situation is not dire straits, as straits usually go,but a month after buying the timeshare my uncle had a stroke, 6 months later my mom had a stroke. Both are now living with us full time for the last year and a half. Certainly no time for vacation and paying for something we don't use is certainly going to causes financial hardship soon. Any additional information or advice is certainly welcome. We're not really sure where or how to begin.


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## LannyPC (Jul 5, 2015)

tsproblem said:


> Any additional information or advice is certainly welcome. We're not really sure where or how to begin.



If the resort won't take it back, you can try the free giveaway method here on TUG:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509

What we do usually caution people, who are in situations like yours, is to watch out for various offers that come via phone call, e-mail, snail mail, or Google-type ads that claim they can get you out of your timeshare, eliminate MFs, etc.  They will charge you thousands of dollars and there's no guarantee.

Of course the big caution is the rental/resale scam where they claim they have buyers banging on their door looking for TSs like yours and are willing to pay a king's ransom for it.  Somewhere along the line, they ask for an upfront fee but then ride off into the sunset with your money.  And, oh yeah,you will still own your TS.


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## Passepartout (Jul 5, 2015)

Under these circumstances, I'd pursue turning the deed back to Welk. You will have to go through a sales or owner services department do it in writing, as the person who answers the phone will certainly not be able to help. You should stress the hardship angle, and that desire as you may, you won't be able to use their resort. Tell them that after your personal situation resolves itself, and dependent on how helpful they are now, you'd consider buying into a Welk resort. Don't tell them it would be resale.

Good luck with your dilemma.

Jim


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