# Pet Friendly [MERGED]



## Pia814 (Nov 4, 2020)

Any pet friendly resorts on HHI?


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## ljmiii (Nov 4, 2020)

No MVC resorts are pet friendly though there are hotels in the Marriott family of brands which are. There are a number of websites devoted to finding pet friendly hotels, petswelcome suggested the Omni Oceanfront Resort Hilton Head Island and five others.






						6 Best VERIFIED Pet Friendly Hotels in Hilton Head Island with Weight Limits & Pet Fees
					

We have picked the 6 Best VERIFIED Pet Friendly Hotels in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. Cheap Rates, Manually verified Weight Limits, Pet Policies and Pet Fees make your booking much easier for you and your dogs or cats.




					www.petswelcome.com


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## Pamplemousse (Nov 4, 2020)

If you have access to interval you can go to the resort directory and choose advanced search- pets allowed is one of the searchable criteria.


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## Foggy1 (Nov 4, 2020)

Pia814 said:


> Any pet friendly resorts on HHI?


You might want to check Hawaii's restrictions on bringing animals/pets to the islands.


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## Pamplemousse (Nov 4, 2020)

Foggy1 said:


> You might want to check Hawaii's restrictions on bringing animals/pets to the islands.


I think HHI stands for Hilton Head Island


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## Dean (Nov 4, 2020)

Pamplemousse said:


> If you have access to interval you can go to the resort directory and choose advanced search- pets allowed is one of the searchable criteria.


You can access the directory from Internal's main page without signing on including the advanced search https://www.intervalworld.com/web/my/home .  

What I've found in the past is that the lists you'll find are notoriously inaccurate and even when they were accurate at one point in time, the information changes from time to time.  Unfortunately we've seeing a lot more unscrupulous people taking pets under the guise of "comfort animal" even though they don't qualify under the ADA.  Even when they're allowed, there are often extra charges and limited units.  Westgate is likely the company that most consistently allows pets from what I've seen but even when they do, they each seem to handle it differently.  A few years ago I was researching for a friend and talked to Westgate resorts in Branson, Gatlinburg and Williamsburg and they were all different animals, LOL.  Even on II or RCI, the lists of who accepts pets has been notoriously inaccurate in both directions.  At one point a couple of the Marriott's showed up on various lists.

Bluegreen has toyed with the idea of pet friendly options at some resorts and they do have a resort on HHI, you might check with them.


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## Foggy1 (Nov 4, 2020)

Pamplemousse said:


> I think HHI stands for Hilton Head Island


My bad.  Thanks for correcting me.  Last night was LATE!


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## Ginny39 (Nov 5, 2020)

I find it disappointing that more and more people are bringing "comfort animals" to Marriott timeshares.  This only adds more expense to get the rooms cleaned and we are paying for the extra cleaning.  I think they should come up with a solution throughout MVC.  If they are going to allow the animals, by turning their head, then allow them in a confined area with extra fees that they pay.  My children pay high prices to have their pets in kennels while they are on vacation.  Others think only of themselves and  bring their dogs  along.  I saw a large German Shepherd at Timber Lodge, (this summer) where the owner once inside the hallway, took off the leash and let the dog run down the hall.

I am a member, I need to find my other log in, sorry.


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## csalter2 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ginny39 said:


> I find it disappointing that more and more people are bringing "comfort animals" to Marriott timeshares.  This only adds more expense to get the rooms cleaned and we are paying for the extra cleaning.  I think they should come up with a solution throughout MVC.  If they are going to allow the animals, by turning their head, then allow them in a confined area with extra fees that they pay.  My children pay high prices to have their pets in kennels while they are on vacation.  Others think only of themselves and  bring their dogs  along.  I saw a large German Shepherd at Timber Lodge, (this summer) where the owner once inside the hallway, took off the leash and let the dog run down the hall.
> 
> I am a member, I need to find my other log in, sorry.



I totally agree. Your dog should stay home. Plus, people are allergic to dogs and others are outright afraid of dogs.


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## jme (Nov 5, 2020)

Anything other than an officially documented service animal should never be allowed into any Marriott timeshare resort. 
(And that process of official documentation has not been defined yet!) 
To do otherwise is a travesty, and any owner who willfully sneaks one in, either by fraudulent means or whatever, 
is exhibiting the height of selfishness. 
All resort owners are currently paying for villa cleaning after each stay, and that is 100% unfair. 
Leave the animals at home, and stop being selfish. 

There are many ways the animal can cause unsanitary conditions, and I promise, you don't want me to list them. 
The cleaning process is NOT thorough, and by definition cannot be, and therefore it is disgusting. 
Not to mention, dogs (or other animals) can absolutely be carriers of Covid19 virus, and I cannot believe 
that resort managers and HOA board members do not realize or appreciate this and take immediate action. 
I just last week wrote a letter to Grande Ocean's general manager about this critical problem. 
It's going on far, far more than people realize. 
I firmly believe there will be a huge backlash soon, and it won't be tolerated anymore. 

When a neighborhood friend invites you to a dinner party, do you show up with your dog?  What's the difference?


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## heathpack (Nov 5, 2020)

jme said:


> Not to mention, dogs (or other animals) can absolutely be carriers of Covid19 virus, and I cannot believe
> that resort managers and HOA board members do not realize or appreciate this and take immediate action.



Dogs are not carriers of COVID.  

Mink, yes.  Dogs, no.









						Coronavirus and Pets: FAQs for Owners - Veterinary Medicine at Illinois
					

Experts from the University of Illinos College of Veterinary Medicine provide answers to questions pet owners have about the new coronavirus, COVID-19.




					vetmed.illinois.edu


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## dioxide45 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ginny39 said:


> I find it disappointing that more and more people are bringing "comfort animals" to Marriott timeshares.


Some people are downright brining pets. All pets are comfort animals. Isn't that the purpose of a pet? To be a companion? This was posted here before, from Grande Vista earlier this summer.









						Dog at Grande Vista
					






					bit.ly


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## Dean (Nov 5, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Dogs are not carriers of COVID.
> 
> Mink, yes.  Dogs, no.
> 
> ...


The information posted does not say that dogs cannot transmit Covid. It just indicates that the risk is low but they do seroconvert.


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## heathpack (Nov 5, 2020)

Dean said:


> The information posted does not say that dogs cannot transmit Covid. It just indicates that the risk is low but they do seroconvert.



Direct quote from the website: “There are no documented cases of dogs or cats spreading the virus to people.”

That’s pretty darn clear.  You might need to read it again.

Does it mean it could never ever ever ever happen?  Nope.  But there’s been literally hundreds of thousands of dogs exposed to COVID and not one has yet been identified as a source of infection to a human.  Meaning the risk is essentially zero.

Theres plenty of arguments to be made against dogs in timeshares, but COVID just isn’t one of them.


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## Dean (Nov 5, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Direct quote from the website: “There are no documented cases of dogs or cats spreading the virus to people.”
> 
> That’s pretty darn clear.  You might need to read it again.
> 
> ...


If you read the entire FAQ you'll see that there is documented conversion of all animals listed and the recommendation that one isolate from pets as well as other humans in the household.  It also acknowledges that "based on the limited information available to date".  Since dogs can become infected it's likely they can transmit the virus even if the risk appears lower with limited data.  The FAQ also recommends the pets be isolated which would strongly suggest they are concerned about the possibility of transmission.


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## hcarman (Nov 5, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Direct quote from the website: “There are no documented cases of dogs or cats spreading the virus to people.”
> 
> That’s pretty darn clear.  You might need to read it again.
> 
> ...



I agree - it is the humans (not dogs) we need to be concerned with - especially those that don’t take precautions.  We went to two timeshares during height of Covid and there are those that still wanted to cram on elevator.


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## heathpack (Nov 5, 2020)

Dean said:


> If you read the entire FAQ you'll see that there is documented conversion of all animals listed and the recommendation that one isolate from pets as well as other humans in the household.  It also acknowledges that "based on the limited information available to date".  Since dogs can become infected it's likely they can transmit the virus even if the risk appears lower with limited data.  The FAQ also recommends the pets be isolated which would strongly suggest they are concerned about the possibility of transmission.



Dogs can very rarely get sick with COVID.  As in there’s been a handful of documented cases out of hundreds of thousands of exposures.  Whether they get sick or not, if exposed to COVID, they can develop antibodies to the disease- ie seroconvert.  

People who are sick with COVID should ideally not handle their dogs, out of risk to the pet.  The chances of the dog spreading the disease to a human are virtually nil (as evidenced by the fact that it’s never been known to happen). However COVID is a serious human illness and not everything is yet known about the disease; public health recommendations for handling COVID-exposed dogs are naturally going to be extremely conservative.

Believe what you will.  As someone who has been working gangbusters with dogs throughout COVID, I know of what I speak.  The COVID argument for not allowing dogs in timeshares is so weak as to undermine what could otherwise be a solid argument.


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## hcarman (Nov 5, 2020)

I have to say that my experience has been the dogs I have seen at the resorts - whether they be service or not - have been quieter and better behaved than some of the children.  We have kids with us sometimes - but just saying..........
If people are worried because of allergies, maybe they could have some dedicated rooms like in some hotels.  That would appease those that are allergic and worry that a service dog or pet has been in their room, and also those that do like to or need to travel with an animal.


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## Superchief (Nov 5, 2020)

We saw at least 3 dogs at Crystal Shores last week. None appeared to be legitimate service animals. I don't think any dog should be allowed without documentation they are a trained service animal and the owner has medical documentation to support their need. I am a dog lover and currently have four rescue dogs. I'd like to bring them on vacation with me, but realize the reasons for MVC's restrictions.


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## Dean (Nov 5, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Dogs can very rarely get sick with COVID.  As in there’s been a handful of documented cases out of hundreds of thousands of exposures.  Whether they get sick or not, if exposed to COVID, they can develop antibodies to the disease- ie seroconvert.
> 
> People who are sick with COVID should ideally not handle their dogs, out of risk to the pet.  The chances of the dog spreading the disease to a human are virtually nil (as evidenced by the fact that it’s never been known to happen). However COVID is a serious human illness and not everything is yet known about the disease; public health recommendations for handling COVID-exposed dogs are naturally going to be extremely conservative.
> 
> Believe what you will.  As someone who has been working gangbusters with dogs throughout COVID, I know of what I speak.  The COVID argument for not allowing dogs in timeshares is so weak as to undermine what could otherwise be a solid argument.


Preliminary and anecdotal evidence suggest the risk is less but from what I can see, no actual prospective studies have been done to test the theory.  Obviously the CDC has concerns.  Your statement was dog were not carriers and that's what I questioned and still do.  The reality is that even if they are the sheer numbers of possible exposures make humans a much larger issue.  Personally I'm not particularly concerned about pets and transmission for a number of reasons but they shouldn't be at the resorts period for any reason.


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## jme (Nov 6, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Dogs can very rarely get sick with COVID.  As in there’s been a handful of documented cases out of hundreds of thousands of exposures.  Whether they get sick or not, if exposed to COVID, they can develop antibodies to the disease- ie seroconvert. People who are sick with COVID should ideally not handle their dogs, out of risk to the pet.  The chances of the dog spreading the disease to a human are virtually nil (as evidenced by the fact that it’s never been known to happen). However COVID is a serious human illness and not everything is yet known about the disease; public health recommendations for handling COVID-exposed dogs are naturally going to be extremely conservative.
> Believe what you will.  As someone who has been working gangbusters with dogs throughout COVID, I know of what I speak.  The COVID argument for not allowing dogs in timeshares is so weak as to undermine what could otherwise be a solid argument.




I did not mention it as THE main argument against pets being allowed in vacation accommodations, but only as one consideration.

So Covid19 virus harboring and transmission is NOT the primary reason I am against animals, and specifically dogs, being in timeshare resorts,
but it is still one serious possibility, however minute, that does potentially cause concern, given that it's still early in the study of this dreadful disease.
Frankly, the real reason is that I simply don't want animals inhabiting MY space, or that of my family when it is NOT proven 100% to be impossible.
And you cannot rightfully say that it is impossible, if you dare to do so.
Just another incidental & anecdotal piece of trivia that CAN possibly exist which should preclude the welcoming of animals
into the living quarters of vacationing adults and young children. We are yet to know for sure, but still, the situation that might allow it
doesn't need to happen at all.

IMHO, it's rather the everyday disgusting habits and proclivities of dogs inside a human place of occupation that truly bother me.

But here's the thing, and please indulge me-----If a live virus can infect an animal, given my scientific background, understanding,
and subsequent doctoral degree in similar fields of study,
and if that host animal can then infect others, by definition, whether it's been officially studied and "documented" or not,
why allow that situation to be present in the first place, when it can be easily (and properly) avoided?

That's what viruses do (or please correct me if I'm wrong) ---they replicate and they spread from one living organism to another.
And here's the clincher, if an animal can be a host to a live virus and NOT infect another, including a human,
please help me discover what causes that special blocking of transmission, because I'd like to purchase some of that stuff, my friend.
Do you understand what I'm saying?  THAT might be the beginning of the end of the virus, and instrumental in stopping
the whole pandemic altogether.  Gimme some doggie DNA that when injected stops the possibility of transmission.

Not saying dogs are the primary source of Covid19 transmission, but it is surely possible, and therefore probable,
that it can and does occur, regardless of it being "known".
Who is really studying it when they are better served to study HUMAN transmission?
Right now the overwhelming billions of dollars given to research is looking at human transmission alone,
putting animal and specifically dog transmission on the back burner for obvious reasons.
For now, for simply hygiene's sake, let's keep animals OUT of the realm of humans' domain .
And again, NOT for Covid,
but because they're still animals and most guests find them inappropriate to cohabit with while on vacation.
BTW, we have had dogs and loved them dearly, but we always boarded them while traveling out of respect for others. 
Aren't 98% of guests without pets for a reason, one of them being "consideration"?


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## TravelTime (Nov 6, 2020)

I have had dogs and cats my entire life. I have been surprised at how rare it is for pets to get colds, flus or Covid-like illnesses. It has always made me wonder if they are immune to some types of human illnesses. Only once did one of my cats get a viral or bacterial infection resulting in lethargy and a fever. My animals have had plenty of other health issues.


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## heathpack (Nov 6, 2020)

@jme it is not at all uncommon for animals to be infected with an infectious disease but be unable to pass the disease on.  It’s called being a dead end host.  This is why there is not serious concern, because this is a known everyday phenomenon.  If it were, then veterinarians like myself would be at increased risk of contracting COVID.  No one was specifically studying COVID transmission in mink, until mink started getting sick with COVID and so did their handlers.  If COVID spread from dogs to humans was a thing, dogs would get sick and so would their veterinarians.

If You want to argue that dogs shouldn’t travel, your arguments will be taken more seriously by others if they argue things that really do happen- dog bites, owners who don’t clean up after their dogs, disruptive behavior, increased wear and tear on units, the necessity for deep cleaning of units, etc.  You’re left with plenty to say ithout resorting to including COVID concerns in your arguments.  After all, the real risk of COVID exposure at the resorts is from other humans.


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## alchook (Nov 6, 2020)

Superchief said:


> We saw at least 3 dogs at Crystal Shores last week. None appeared to be legitimate service animals. I don't think any dog should be allowed without documentation they are a trained service animal and the owner has medical documentation to support their need. I am a dog lover and currently have four rescue dogs. I'd like to bring them on vacation with me, but realize the reasons for MVC's restrictions.



The ADA does not allow hotels to ask for documentation for service animals. The hotel is only allowed to ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what the animal is trained to do. Curiously, they seem rather vague on whether the owner is required to answer the questions.


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## Fasttr (Nov 6, 2020)

The U.S. population can't come together on mask wearing during a pandemic....what is the likelihood there will ever be consensus on "emotional support animals".  ;-(


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## LUVourMarriotts (Nov 6, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Some people are downright brining pets. All pets are comfort animals. Isn't that the purpose of a pet? To be a companion? ...



The "comfort animals" or "emotional support animals" are not covered by the ADA laws.  I find it crazy that MVC, Marriott Intl, etc allow guests to bring these animals.  As others have said, it is just blatant disrespect for others.  There are people that say they have a certificate for their comfort/support animal.  It's just a lie, since there is no such certificate that means anything, since those dogs are not covered by law.  

When we were at GO back in August, there was a woman walking her little dog (I think it was a shih tzu) through the pool area.  At times, she had it walking and at other times she had it in her arms.  About an hour later, we saw the same woman getting in her car with a man, no dog in site.  So, it was left in the villa to do whatever it wanted?  Even if it was in a cage, its obviously not a real support animal.


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## bazzap (Nov 6, 2020)

No "comfort animals" or "emotional support animals" are allowed in any MVC resorts in Europe or Asia.
There is none of this “you can only ask.....” 
If you have a registed support animal you can bring it (quite rightly), if you haven’t you can’t.
The rules are clear and simple.


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## Superchief (Nov 7, 2020)

It is sad that people are so selfish and abuse the rules. This makes it more difficult for the legitimate service animals to travel and do their jobs.


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## ahdah (Nov 7, 2020)

I believe the big issue about pets is not that they can get COVID, but that they should not be at the villas UNLESS they have documents to prove that they are service dogs and not comfort dogs or pets.  Many people just think of themselves, and don't want to pay a fee to have their pet in a kennel.  I don't care if they are better behaved than the children at the villa, they do not belong in the villas. Take them with you to a hotel that allows pets, but don't bring them to a Marriott timeshare.  Sorry if this sounds unkind, they are not supposed to be there.  Marriott should begin to enforce this rule.


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## geist1223 (Nov 7, 2020)

There is no required documentation for a service animal. They are not even required to wear a service animal blanket.


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## bazzap (Nov 7, 2020)

geist1223 said:


> There is no required documentation for a service animal. They are not even required to wear a service animal blanket.


Only in the US.


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## alchook (Nov 8, 2020)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> When we were at GO back in August, there was a woman walking her little dog (I think it was a shih tzu) through the pool area.  At times, she had it walking and at other times she had it in her arms.  About an hour later, we saw the same woman getting in her car with a man, no dog in site.  So, it was left in the villa to do whatever it wanted?  Even if it was in a cage, its obviously not a real support animal.



Service animals are not allowed to be left alone in rooms.


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## jme (Nov 8, 2020)

When we people check in they request documentation---a driver's license and a credit card.
A document for a service animal should be required too (and all other animals excluded from staying), 
AND a credit card by their owner TO PAY FOR THE VILLA'S CLEANING AFTER CHECK-OUT.


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## ocdb8r (Nov 9, 2020)

jme said:


> When we people check in they request documentation---a driver's license and a credit card.
> A document for a service animal should be required too (and all other animals excluded from staying),
> AND a credit card by their owner TO PAY FOR THE VILLA'S CLEANING AFTER CHECK-OUT.



The problem is in the US the ADA specifically prevents requiring any documentation; the only two questions legally permitted to be asked is: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?  The ADA also does not permit charges for "cleaning" for service animals (but may charge for any documented damage done by a service animal).  Finally, the ADA does not permit restriction of service animals to specific "pet friendly" rooms.

I agree there is a problem with abusing the system here, but there is not an easy solution for resort management to implement given the law's desire to ensure those with disabilities are given a equal opportunity access even if they have a service animal.

It has been correctly pointed out though that Service Animals must be under the care and control of their owners at all times (and thus they should not ever be left alone in a hotel room).


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## bazzap (Nov 9, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> It has been correctly pointed out though that Service Animals must be under the care and control of their owners at all times (and thus they should not ever be left alone in a hotel room).


That really is the key point.
Even the ADA regulations allow for animals to be removed if not under their handler’s control.
This is highly unlikely to ever be the case with a genuine service animal, but would certainly allow the resort to request removal of many if not all pets at an MVC resort.
*Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
A*. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.


			Redirecting…


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## jme (Nov 9, 2020)

So when an animal receives an official service animal designation from a recognized authority, like a physician, 
it is issued a BRIGHT RED COLLAR with an easily identifiable "seal of approval" of some sort that cannot be mistaken. 
And wearing ONLY that collar will be the new standard of authenticity.
Then all animals who do not have one cannot be allowed into a resort.  It's as simple as that.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 9, 2020)

jme said:


> So when an animal receives an official service animal designation from a recognized authority, like a physician,
> it is issued a BRIGHT RED COLLAR with an easily identifiable "seal of approval" of some sort that cannot be mistaken.
> And wearing ONLY that collar will be the new standard of authenticity.
> Then all animals who do not have one cannot be allowed into a resort.  It's as simple as that.


Sounds simple, but requires an act of Congress and we know how that goes.


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## bazzap (Nov 9, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Sounds simple, but requires an act of Congress and we know how that goes.


I am sure there must be TUG members here with service animals.
It would be interesting to know what their views are on the acceptability of being asked for documentation on check in.
I suspect that they may be as unhappy, if not more so, at the proliferation of non service animal pets at the resorts and knock on effect this may have on their genuine need, but it would be good to hear from them.
You are right though, getting this approved would be a whole different ball game.


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## jme (Nov 9, 2020)

bazzap said:


> I am sure there must be TUG members here with service animals.
> It would be interesting to know what their views are on the acceptability of being asked for documentation on check in.
> I suspect that they may be as unhappy, if not more so, at the proliferation of non service animal pets at the resorts and knock on effect this may have on their genuine need, but it would be good to hear from them.
> You are right tough, getting this approved would be a whole different ball game.



How one feels about documentation really is irrelevant to me....what I care about is the actual mandatory documentation
for something that affects others in a huge way....after all, my timeshare is privately owned real estate, and I have my rights too, 
something nobody is mentioning.

Being asked for documentation should not bother anyone---if it were me, I wouldn't mind it one bit, especially if it were legit. 
Wouldn't be any harder than whipping out another ID card, 
just like what we do each check-in with Drivers License and Credit Card...... Simple step!

BTW, we had dogs too, but we were not selfish enough to circumvent rules and regulations for our own self-interest in "bringing along pets".


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## LUVourMarriotts (Nov 9, 2020)

bazzap said:


> I am sure there must be TUG members here with service animals.
> It would be interesting to know what their views are on the acceptability of being asked for documentation on check in....



I would assume the service animal is not brought into the lobby to check in, in most cases.  Either another person goes to check in, or the dog is left in the car (proving it is not a service animal).  This way, Marriott may never know that there is an animal in the villa with them.  The only way it would come up is if someone called the front desk to complain.  At that point, the hotel staff should be going to that villa and asking the appropriate/allowed questions, to prove whether or not that dog should be there.


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## hcarman (Nov 9, 2020)

jme said:


> I did not mention it as THE main argument against pets being allowed in vacation accommodations, but only as one consideration.
> 
> So Covid19 virus harboring and transmission is NOT the primary reason I am against animals, and specifically dogs, being in timeshare resorts,
> but it is still one serious possibility, however minute, that does potentially cause concern, given that it's still early in the study of this dreadful disease.
> ...



So you are worried that an animal in the room before you might have had Covid?  What about a human in the room before you - they are much more likely a carrier.  MVCI is following precautions to do extra cleaning on a room to hopefully eliminate or significantly decrease the possibility of any lingering germs - regardless of whether they come from human or canine.  But everyone has to make their own decision as to whether they are comfortable with that  or not.  Also, everyone is entitled to their opinions on dogs but I have never had a vacation disrupted because of a dog (and I do usually see one or two a stay) - but I have had the pool closed at least three times at the resort I have been staying at because a child was not wearing a swim diaper (a requirement of the resort)  - that meant no relaxing by the pool for a minimum of 24 hours for board of health inspections - so that did disrupt my vacation and was pretty disgusting.  And I have had a vacation impacted by loud partying people in a room above us that we could hear all night long for several days.  So I can't agree with your statement on the habits of dogs being bothersome at hotels - it has been more humans not being respectful of masking rules, quiet time, and pool rules that we have encountered.


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## hcarman (Nov 9, 2020)

Fasttr said:


> The U.S. population can't come together on mask wearing during a pandemic....what is the likelihood there will ever be consensus on "emotional support animals".  ;-(


Good point - the U.S. is very bipolar on everything these days.


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## Dean (Nov 9, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Sounds simple, but requires an act of Congress and we know how that goes.


Unfortunately we do but I think we're going to see enough backlash over the next few years that you'll see the organizations and individuals in circles with true service animals will ask for a change.  I feel the proliferation of people abusing the system with pets and comfort animals are ultimately being harmful to those that actually need true service animals.


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## bazzap (Nov 9, 2020)

hcarman said:


> Good point - the U.S. is very bipolar on everything these days.


It is an interesting point, although it really doesn’t apply as MVC rules do not allow emotional support animals as they are pets and neither are allowed by MVC or covered by ADA regulations.


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## Fasttr (Nov 9, 2020)

bazzap said:


> It is an interesting point, although it really doesn’t apply as MVC rules do not allow emotional support animals as they are pets and neither are allowed by MVC or covered by ADA regulations.


I think you may be missing the point of the majority of the comments in this thread.  It is happening at MVC resorts....people passing "emotional support animals" off as service animals and/or simply sneaking them in, and having the weak laws surrounding service animals as their excuse in their back pocket, should anybody call them on it. The laws as written make skirting the rules too easy.


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## jme (Nov 9, 2020)

hcarman said:


> So you are worried that an animal in the room before you might have had Covid?  What about a human in the room before you - they are much more likely a carrier.  MVCI is following precautions to do extra cleaning on a room to hopefully eliminate or significantly decrease the possibility of any lingering germs - regardless of whether they come from human or canine.  But everyone has to make their own decision as to whether they are comfortable with that  or not.  Also, everyone is entitled to their opinions on dogs but I have never had a vacation disrupted because of a dog (and I do usually see one or two a stay) - but I have had the pool closed at least three times at the resort I have been staying at because a child was not wearing a swim diaper (a requirement of the resort)  - that meant no relaxing by the pool for a minimum of 24 hours for board of health inspections - so that did disrupt my vacation and was pretty disgusting.  And I have had a vacation impacted by loud partying people in a room above us that we could hear all night long for several days.  So I can't agree with your statement on the habits of dogs being bothersome at hotels - it has been more humans not being respectful of masking rules, quiet time, and pool rules that we have encountered.



Not so much worried about a dog with Covid, or a person with Covid.....for reasons I'll not go into detail over, 
but a dog who is unauthorized to stay there does bother me (not a service animal), because it's a fraudulent abuse of privileges. 
It has very little to do with Covid but a lot to do with general sanitation and nuisance issues for what I consider 
"homes-away-from home" units which are occupied by everyone.  It is real estate that I own (we all own), and I simply don't want to be there 
on vacation with that issue coming up every time. 

And as for a human with Covid19  being in the unit prior to a visit, they are cleaning by wiping down surfaces, etc, which I feel is adequate,
but they are NOT calling in an outside "carpet/upholstery steam-cleaning company" like they ARE with a unit that housed an animal. 
That incurs tremendous expense over time, and we should NOT have our maintenance fees driven up by this, because I submit that it's becoming a bigger expense than many realize. Again, it's selfishness that causes this issue I'm against, and there's an easy solution but it's ignored.


----------



## bazzap (Nov 9, 2020)

Fasttr said:


> I think you may be missing the point of the majority of the comments in this thread.  It is happening at MVC resorts....people passing "emotional support animals" off as service animals and/or simply sneaking them in, and having the weak laws surrounding service animals as their excuse in their back pocket, should anybody call them on it. The laws as written make skirting the rules too easy.


If it came across like that, it certainly was not my intention.
I am only too well aware of the totally unacceptable abuse by some owners bringing fake service animals to MVC resorts.
I was just highlighting that they are actually not allowed by either MVC or by ADA.
I most definitely believe the laws should be changed to stamp out this practice and honestly I am astonished that they haven’t been when here in Europe and also in Asia it is a non issue. Pets are not allowed and if they are found the owners are challenged and asked to leave.


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## Fasttr (Nov 9, 2020)

bazzap said:


> If it came across like that, it certainly was not my intention.
> I am only too well aware of the totally unacceptable abuse by some owners bringing fake service animals to MVC resorts.
> I was just highlighting that they are actually not allowed by either MVC or by ADA.
> I most definitely believe the laws should be changed to stamp out this practice and honestly I am astonished that they haven’t been when here in Europe and also in Asia it is a non issue. Pets are not allowed and if they are found the owners are challenged and asked to leave.


OK...on the same page....and totally agree with your comments.


----------



## hcarman (Nov 9, 2020)

jme said:


> Not so much worried about a dog with Covid, or a person with Covid.....for reasons I'll not go into detail over,
> but a dog who is unauthorized to stay there does bother me (not a service animal), because it's a fraudulent abuse of privileges.
> It has very little to do with Covid but a lot to do with general sanitation and nuisance issues for what I consider
> "homes-away-from home" units which are occupied by everyone.  It is real estate that I own (we all own), and I simply don't want to be there
> ...



We own the real estate but our board and resort management set the policies and determine how they plan on enforcing.  Kind of like with an HOA - we may own the home but it doesn't mean we really have full control over everything we do with our property.  I guess to me I try to enjoy my vacation and not worry so much about what others are doing - that can drive you batty.  I see people smoking on balconies when they shouldn't, and larger groups sneaking into rooms, and the public trying to use the amenities.  You are always welcome to express an opinion to the board or management but in the end they are tasked with the decision.  I also don't believe that the main reason someone brings an animal to the property is to eliminate boarding costs - I recognize that dogs are recognized by many as part of the family and treated like their children.  And as far as ESA animals go there have been many studies that show that animals really bring down stress levels in humans.  I think we could all use a little less stress in our lives these days.  There are rare occasions when an animal may cause damage, but there are probably just as many cases (or more) when a human causes damage.  That is what the credit card hold is for at check-in.  So like another poster mentioned - there are two schools of thought on whether this is a big problem.  I have yet to see any mention of cleaning costs for animals jacking up our fees - I see insurance costs, wifi costs, hurricane assessments, increased minimum wage, etc.


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## jme (Nov 9, 2020)

hcarman said:


> We own the real estate but our board and resort management set the policies and determine how they plan on enforcing.  Kind of like with an HOA - we may own the home but it doesn't mean we really have full control over everything we do with our property.  I guess to me I try to enjoy my vacation and not worry so much about what others are doing - that can drive you batty.  I see people smoking on balconies when they shouldn't, and larger groups sneaking into rooms, and the public trying to use the amenities.  You are always welcome to express an opinion to the board or management but in the end they are tasked with the decision.  I also don't believe that the main reason someone brings an animal to the property is to eliminate boarding costs - I recognize that dogs are recognized by many as part of the family and treated like their children.  And as far as ESA animals go there have been many studies that show that animals really bring down stress levels in humans.  I think we could all use a little less stress in our lives these days.  There are rare occasions when an animal may cause damage, but there are probably just as many cases (or more) when a human causes damage.  That is what the credit card hold is for at check-in.  So like another poster mentioned - there are two schools of thought on whether this is a big problem.  I have yet to see any mention of cleaning costs for animals jacking up our fees - I see insurance costs, wifi costs, hurricane assessments, increased minimum wage, etc.



My point is that certain people are 100% aware of the policy against bringing in non-service animals 
(which the HOA and management should be bound to enforce), yet they selfishly disobey that policy and continue 
to abuse it...they simply don't care what the policy is, and they do what they want in their own self-gratification. 
That is wrong, and I do care and right and wrong. 

Doesn't matter if their stress is reduced or not, totally irrelevant. 
Doesn't matter if they consider their pet to be part of their family or not---it's irrelevant. 
Whether dogs or something else---do you REALLY want this abuse to play out in other infinite ways, ie, bad behavior not relating to animals? 

There is (or should be) a silent code of decorum at all resorts. 
There is something in this world called consideration and respect for others, and I am not happy about how this one 
is being addressed by you and others.  
Call it whatever you want, but both you and they are terribly wrong in condoning this behavior, and this thread is certainly not the end of it.

Walking or sneaking into the resort and using the facilities by non-owners is another "pet peeve" (excuse the pun) 
which is also considered cheating, and that too is against the rules.  
I suppose that if their stress levels are lowered by enjoying "our" resort, then it's OK? 
I've said all I care to on this issue, but things will change, that is my prediction.


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## ljmiii (Nov 10, 2020)

So...50 posts later in yet another thread on this topic we once again find that...

MVC doesn't allow pets.
Many resorts and hotels do (some of which are Marriott brands).
Many newbies (like the OP) wonder if MVC allows pets
The ADA regulations regarding service animals are straightforward.
Many TUGgers don't like the ADA regulations

I've never taken a pet on vacation but have stayed in hotels, eaten in restaurants, and shopped in stores where they were present. No big deal...but I've never encountered an ill-behaved pet on any of these occasions. I wish I could say the same for the humans. Carry on...;-)


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## bazzap (Nov 10, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> So...50 posts later in yet another thread on this topic we once again find that...
> 
> MVC doesn't allow pets.
> Many resorts and hotels do (some of which are Marriott brands).
> ...


Doubtless there are ill behaved human guests and if they are breaking the rules they should be asked to stop doing so which hopefully they will or they should be asked to leave.
Humans are allowed to stay at MVC resorts though, pets are not - it shouldn’t be any more complicated than that.
Some seem to want to make it so though.


----------



## jme (Nov 10, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> So...50 posts later in yet another thread on this topic we once again find that...
> 
> MVC doesn't allow pets.
> Many resorts and hotels do (some of which are Marriott brands).
> ...



keepin' it going, carryin' it on..........

MVC doesn't allow pets?   (yes, we all knew that)
Then please tell those who have brought non-service animals to get them outta there.
That's the point, enforcement rather than looking the other way.
At any given point, the animals at any MVC resort are 30% non-service animals, maybe more.
The ADA regulations are what they are, but they are not enforced nor do they make sense---
universal documentation and ability for resort "to seek it" prior to check-in should be part of new regulations, period.
.....and if a non-service animal is encountered at a resort, and that is verified, it should be removed by owner to a local kennel until they leave.
Why the heck not???

Highway laws are "straightforward" too, but people speed. But there is enforcement,
which firstly acts as a deterrent, and secondly as a penalty for non-compliance. Not a perfect analogy, but it works for me.
Regulations are regulations, not "for your consideration", but for your compliance.
It's the hard-headed, selfish humans that ruin it for the rest, and those passive individuals who do look the other way are enablers, really..


----------



## Big Matt (Nov 10, 2020)

We are becoming a society of rule breakers.  People feel entitled.  I was at Grande Ocean a couple of weeks ago and I was walking on the long walkway connecting one end of the resort to the other at 8 in the morning.  A couple in their 50s was walking and not wearing masks.  Another man goes up to them and tells them that the resort says that they need masks.  The husband says that they were going to do whatever they want and for him to "blow" off.  I didn't get involved.  It shows how people can be these days.  

Back to the topic.  I have reported abuse of non-service animals twice at Marriotts.  Once at Grande Ocean and once at Harbor Club.  I never interacted with the dog owner.  Instead, I called the front desk and reported the unit #.  I never got any word one way or another about whether they did anything, but at least they listened and said they would follow up.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 10, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> We are becoming a society of rule breakers.  People feel entitled.  I was at Grande Ocean a couple of weeks ago and I was walking on the long walkway connecting one end of the resort to the other at 8 in the morning.  A couple in their 50s was walking and not wearing masks.  Another man goes up to them and tells them that the resort says that they need masks.  The husband says that they were going to do whatever they want and for him to "blow" off.  I didn't get involved.  It shows how people can be these days.


It sounds like they were outdoors. If I understand the mask mandate in Hilton Head Island, it is only for indoor commercial spaces. The other man was in the wrong.


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## Fasttr (Nov 10, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> It sounds like they were outdoors. If I understand the mask mandate in Hilton Head Island, it is only for indoor commercial spaces. The other man was in the wrong.


The MVC Resort mask rules are as follows.... so the outdoor requirement is open to interpretation re 6ft social distancing. 

As part of our efforts to help you stay healthy when you stay with us, face coverings are required of all Owners, guests, and vendors at each of our resorts — even where not currently government-mandated. Shared spaces where face coverings must be worn include the following:

Indoor public spaces and common areas
Lobbies
Food & Beverage outlets, including pool bars, Marketplaces, and other similar venues
Fitness centers
Outdoor public spaces where social distance of 6ft/2m cannot be maintained 
*Please Note:  *The above requirements are in addition to any applicable face covering requirements mandated by governmental authorities in the jurisdictions where our resorts are located.


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## Big Matt (Nov 10, 2020)

Fasttr said:


> The MVC Resort mask rules are as follows.... so the outdoor requirement is open to interpretation re 6ft social distancing.
> 
> As part of our efforts to help you stay healthy when you stay with us, face coverings are required of all Owners, guests, and vendors at each of our resorts — even where not currently government-mandated. Shared spaces where face coverings must be worn include the following:
> 
> ...


Exactly.

.....And if you sign up for text messages, you get a similar message every evening while at the resort.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 10, 2020)

Fasttr said:


> The MVC Resort mask rules are as follows.... so the outdoor requirement is open to interpretation re 6ft social distancing.
> 
> As part of our efforts to help you stay healthy when you stay with us, face coverings are required of all Owners, guests, and vendors at each of our resorts — even where not currently government-mandated. Shared spaces where face coverings must be worn include the following:
> 
> ...


That policy pretty much matches the HHI mandate with the exception of outdoor spaces. There was no indication of distance in the story provided, but I suspect as the 'other man' approached, he caused them to violate the policy?


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## Fasttr (Nov 10, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> That policy pretty much matches the HHI mandate with the exception of outdoor spaces. There was no indication of distance in the story provided, but I suspect as the 'other man' approached, he caused them to violate the policy?


Likely so.  :-(


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## Big Matt (Nov 10, 2020)

The walkway is about 6 feet wide.  You would violate it if you passed anyone.  Same thing when walking to the beach or on the way back with an even narrower walkway.  I'm not a crazy mask zealot, but I do like to follow rules.  I would never approach anyone like the other gentleman simply because you never know what you are getting into.  I do consider the behavior rude given the large number of elderly guests at the resort.


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## jme (Nov 11, 2020)

I noticed that everyone at Grande Ocean 2 weeks ago who used the elevators did observe the posted limitation of elevator riders
to "multiple people of same family", or either single users. 
And they also wore masks while on the elevators and even in the ground level parking deck.
Very considerate and appropriate, unlike the cheating non-service dog owners. About 90% of guests walking around the resort,
even outside, had on masks...and 100% who were inside the lobby.

Same observations for our stay at Barony last weekend........


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## vail (Nov 11, 2020)

A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.

Hotels like Caesars Palace, Ritz Carlton and others now allow pets.
They have specific rooms that are assigned.

If this happened I am certain a lot of the issues would disappear because people cause more problems than dogs ever will.


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## Fasttr (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
> A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
> One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
> Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.
> ...


Why stop at dogs...I'm sure a lot of horse people love their horses.  Lets bring them along too.

Where does it stop.... https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/30/travel/emotional-support-pig-booted-flight/index.html


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## vail (Nov 11, 2020)

That type of response is why we have these problems--and not just with dogs?
Realistically how many homes have horses living in the house?


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## bazzap (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
> A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
> One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
> Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.
> ...


We all bought into MVC, knowing and accepting that they do not allow pets (of any type)
Why does this issue keep getting raised?
If some owners no longer want to accept the Ts & Cs they signed up for, they have the option to sell up / walk away.


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## Dean (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
> A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
> One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
> Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.
> ...


Actually on a per capita basis, Dogs and cats cause more issues, problems and costs than people from what I've seen.  If you ever have a rental property and allow pets, you'll eventually find out just how expensive they can be.  Hotels that allow pets do so to get additional income and they factor any added costs into the process.  Someone pays and for a timeshare, it'd be the owners and the fees charged rarely cover all the costs long term so the general membership would have added costs.  IMO the resorts should be hard line on this subject.  They should do what is allowed under the ADA rules which is quite a bit and if all of the criteria are not met, they should ask the guest to place the pet elsewhere or leave.  I think it's to the point where we as owners should start asking our resorts we own at to do so.


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## alchook (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
> A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
> One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
> Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.


Service animals cannot be limited to pet specific rooms.


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## vail (Nov 11, 2020)

The Pet friendly building could have a surcharge.
There is always a solution if it interests enough people.
Or it will end up as it has on airlines.

Airlines used to permit pets to fly as checked baggage in cargo.
However they started making enough rules and eventually even if you wanted to fly, and check your pet and pay the fee ,
they would refuse to take the pet.
Imagine a family of 5 with paid tickets, reserved rental vehicles and non cancellation hotels now at the airport and the
airline will not fly the pet.
Than you wonder why there are  now a  million service dogs flying everyday?
If you don't deal properly with the issue, than do not complain when you do not like the result.

On Las Vegas smoking is permitted in every casino.
Because of covid this too is now starting to change.

Timeshares do not allow pets to please the owners.
It is because of the management company.


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## Fasttr (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> That type of response is why we have these problems--and not just with dogs?
> Realistically how many homes have horses living in the house?


Oh you would be surprised....








						LOOK: This Horse Prefers The Indoors
					

LOOK: This Horse Prefers The Indoors




					www.huffpost.com
				












						This ‘Freckle Butt’ house horse lives the life of a family dog
					

Just like any other household pet, he likes playing with his dog pals — and using the litter box.




					nypost.com
				












						Family’s miniature horse gets treated like an indoor dog
					

BELGRADE — Rowan is a lot like a dog. She sleeps next to her owners’ bed, she weighs about 100 pounds, and she takes baths in the bathtub. She rides




					billingsgazette.com


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## Dean (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> The Pet friendly building could have a surcharge.
> There is always a solution if it interests enough people.
> Or it will end up as it has on airlines.
> 
> ...


Certainly there are ways to approach it but IMO there are no good ways to approach it for a timeshare that is fair to the owners in general.  It's a little like the HC rooms where someone has to get them thus it won't be a complete separation and it's unlikely the surcharges would cover the expenses.  If enough owners want it and are willing to pay for it, it will happen but I don't see that this is the case.  As I mentioned earlier, Westgate tends to allow pets.  Some of their properties have pet specific rooms and some just charge you a larger fee.  That dishonest people will try to find a way around the rules is not a reason to allow pets IMO, just stick to the rules and enforce them turning away owners that don't meet the criteria if they can't find alternative accommodations for the pet.  It'll stop very quickly when they do this.  If you want MVC to be like Westgate, good luck.  Bluegreen toyed with the idea and floated it to the owners and resorts but didn't have enough interest to go forward at least so far.


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## Superchief (Nov 11, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> That policy pretty much matches the HHI mandate with the exception of outdoor spaces. There was no indication of distance in the story provided, but I suspect as the 'other man' approached, he caused them to violate the policy?


Many of these 'rules' wouldn't be needed if people just used common sense and courtesy. The real intent of mask policies is to keep people from coughing, sneezing, and spreading germs in close contact with others. I read recent studies that suggest they may not really be effective, but intuitively think they help in closed environments or in crowds. I believe some people get carried away with the enforcement/abuse of mask policies. When at Crystal Shores recently, almost everyone wore masks when inside or on the elevators, or when walking in the crowded corridors. Very few wore them outside at the pool or on the boardwalks. When walking outside, I just turn my head away from people as they pass by. When working out in the gym, I wore the mask but pulled it down from my nose when actively exercising when nobody was there. These activities create no risk for others, so there is really no reason for anyone to get upset. If both sides were more reasonable, we would have better overall compliance and civility.


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## Dean (Nov 11, 2020)

Superchief said:


> Many of these 'rules' wouldn't be needed if people just used common sense and courtesy. The real intent of mask policies is to keep people from coughing, sneezing, and spreading germs in close contact with others. I read recent studies that suggest they may not really be effective, but intuitively think they help in closed environments or in crowds. I believe some people get carried away with the enforcement/abuse of mask policies. When at Crystal Shores recently, almost everyone wore masks when inside or on the elevators, or when walking in the crowded corridors. Very few wore them outside at the pool or on the boardwalks. When walking outside, I just turn my head away from people as they pass by. When working out in the gym, I wore the mask but pulled it down from my nose when actively exercising when nobody was there. These activities create no risk for others, so there is really no reason for anyone to get upset. If both sides were more reasonable, we would have better overall compliance and civility.


I've developed the opinion that the entitlement mentality has and is slowly increasing over time and that timeshare owners have more than their fair share of entitlement thinking members likely due to the costs involved.  And the more expensive and more exclusive, the worse it is.  Plus I've seen that it's even worse with timeshares that are more lenient and less willing to hold the line like DVC.


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## Big Matt (Nov 11, 2020)

We had these same conversations about smoking in units about 15-20 years ago.  As for pets, there are plenty of resorts that allow pets.  Lots of timeshares, beach house rentals, etc.  People with pets should go there where its perfectly okay.  

I wonder how many of the pet violators (that sounds weird) are owners vs. exchangers?


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## Dean (Nov 11, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> We had these same conversations about smoking in units about 15-20 years ago.  As for pets, there are plenty of resorts that allow pets.  Lots of timeshares, beach house rentals, etc.  People with pets should go there where its perfectly okay.
> 
> I wonder how many of the pet violators (that sounds weird) are owners vs. exchangers?


From what I've seen owners are as bad or worse in general compared to exchangers or renters (and have had many conversations with resort management which is c/w those thoughts) when it comes to taking care of timeshares after all other than fixed unit options they are essentially just a rental car.  I see no reason to think it would be any different with pets.  I think familiarity increases the risk which tends to apply more to owners as well.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 11, 2020)

We love our doofus 100lb Ted and use pet-friendly hotels when we travel between our homes in MA and HHI. But we loved our Bandit equally and although I would have loved to introduce him to the beach on HHI, before we lost him all of our stays were at the two timeshares mentioned below so he never came with us. And if he had, it would have said much more about us than about the timeshare staff turning a blind eye to it.

About designating certain buildings as "pet friendly" - how do you choose which building when the units within all of them were designated/sold at varying prices according to the unit/view type? Take SurfWatch as an example - one "ocean vista" building, one completely "oceanside" building, one partially "oceanside" and partially "garden view" building, two completely "garden view" buildings and one building that houses check-in and administration but also has "gardenview" units. Or Barony Beach - two partially "oceanfront" and partially "oceanside" buildings, two completely "oceanside" buildings and two "gardenview" buildings. You can't because doing so will be in violation of the availability metrics that dictate owners' rights as to unit placement, and most Marriott timeshare resorts have a similar set-up with different unit/view types. I'm not all ashamed to say that I'd be infuriated if a "gardenview" owner was moved into an "oceanfront" unit beside me, just to pacify the owner who wants to bring a pet and agrees to give up that OF unit and stay in the back GV building. Plus, what about the GV owners who bought into a resort that doesn't allow pets and they want the rules enforced in the units they purchased?

If we'd wanted to buy into a designated "pet friendly" timeshare we wouldn't have bought where we did and I want them to enforce the rules when they can, but privacy laws do prevent them from forcing a disabled person to disclose whatever health issue requires the animal. Still, sometimes it's obvious which dogs are service animals and which are pets belonging to the entitled DYKWIA people, and the entitled should be booted out when they leave their pets unaccompanied in a unit, when the pets are unruly or a nuisance, when it's obvious to anyone within range that it's a pet. The growing problem is only going to get worse if the selfish entitled people aren't held to account.


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## Fasttr (Nov 11, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> …..And if he had, it would have said much more about us than about the timeshare staff turning a blind eye to it.


 

So true...it all comes down to character!!

The Six Pillars of Character are: *Trustworthiness*, *Respect*, *Responsibility*, *Fairness*, *Caring* and *Citizenship*.


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## jme (Nov 11, 2020)

vail said:


> A separate issue should be--why do timeshares refuse to allow people to come with pets?
> A lot of the timeshares have multiple buildings--5 or more.
> One building in the back could be where all pets go--regardless if they are service dogs, emotional support, or just the family pet.
> Many people feel as if the family dog is their child and want to take them along on vacation.
> ...



Timeshares are not for pets, at least pertaining to this discussion about Hilton Head Marriott timeshares.
If you want a resort or a resort building for pets, go buy a private condo and do with it what you will.
When hundreds of people (owners) come together each week as a collective unit to dwell at a resort and bring their children,
other family members, or friends,  it's because they all purchased "time" under specific, stated governing rules that YOU signed.
So aside from those binding rules, your rights to do anything contrary to those rules go against the original intent.
And the documents for all Hilton Head Marriott resorts clearly state that pets are not allowed.... and legally that cannot be changed.

There ARE timeshare properties that allow pets under their governing rules, so that is the place that you should have sought out.
We once had a bad experience with large dogs at a resort complex in Amelia Island, Florida, and we swore we would never stay
anywhere again that allowed dogs.  It was traumatizing, and the memory lingers when we see dogs in places where they are not welcomed.

There are also rules governing motorcycles being allowed into the resorts, so what's your pleasure there?
Some motorcycles even have names. A motorcycle can be part of the family too, but hey...so sorry.
People cannot do whatever they like just because they want to..........   when..........    other ..........   people.........    are..........    involved.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 12, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> About designating certain buildings as "pet friendly" - how do you choose which building when the units within all of them were designated/sold at varying prices according to the unit/view type? Take SurfWatch as an example - one "ocean vista" building, one completely "oceanside" building, one partially "oceanside" and partially "garden view" building, two completely "garden view" buildings and one building that houses check-in and administration but also has "gardenview" units. Or Barony Beach - two partially "oceanfront" and partially "oceanside" buildings, two completely "oceanside" buildings and two "gardenview" buildings. You can't because doing so will be in violation of the availability metrics that dictate owners' rights as to unit placement, and most Marriott timeshare resorts have a similar set-up with different unit/view types. I'm not all ashamed to say that I'd be infuriated if a "gardenview" owner was moved into an "oceanfront" unit beside me, just to pacify the owner who wants to bring a pet and agrees to give up that OF unit and stay in the back GV building. Plus, what about the GV owners who bought into a resort that doesn't allow pets and they want the rules enforced in the units they purchased?



I think Sue hit on the main reason pet friendly buildings would be tough for timeshare. With so many resorts having sold interests by view/room category, they would need to designate pet-friendly rooms within each category. Then what happens if all the pet friendly rooms aren't reserved by pet owners for a given week? Then, someone who doesn't want a pet friendly room might be forced to accept one if they wanted that week. For some people that might be OK, others maybe not. Bottom line, at most resorts it would add to the already complex, multi-faceted pieces of inventory management.

Now, if a new timeshare were sold with specific buildings or units targeted to pet owners, then that might be appealing for some buyers. But in a system like MVC which has migrated to a points system, that would seem impractical.

Before our sweet Cavalier Kings Charles Spaniel named Oliver passed away three years ago, we always lamented not being able to take him with us to MVC or HGVC timeshares, so we took several trips where we specifically booked pet friendly hotels so we could take him along. We took him to Charleston Place and to both the Omni and Westin on Hilton Head as well as other pet friendly places. It would have been nice to be able to take him with us to our timeshares, but we understood why that was not really possible.


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## vail (Nov 12, 2020)

Last point--it does not matter what you own--ocean or whatever--if you want to bring a pet and there is one building that allows pets, you give up your right to your ownership category if you want to bring your pet.

As for rules that pets are not allowed--if there is one building out of 5 or 10 that is designated, it could be voted on and changed.
There is no such thing that by laws cannot be changed--pure nonsense.

Once again pets would not be allowed to roam everywhere--only in the vicinity of that building and not everywhere else.

I never understood why Las Vegas that has so many hotels under the same ownership and never designated any as non smoking.
Instead if you were a non smoker you had to endure smoke at every hotel?
Well even that is now changing.

I understand that at a small timeshare this would not be possible, but certainly at some multi building locations, one building could be designated as pets only, if the owners so desired and it was voted on.

People  that obviously hate dogs, would not be affected as they would not be staying at that building.
But the multitude of pet owners would be thrilled to have that option.
It might even raise the value of the timeshare from almost nothing to something?
Because people love their pets.


----------



## alexadeparis (Nov 13, 2020)

vail said:


> Last point--it does not matter what you own--ocean or whatever--if you want to bring a pet and there is one building that allows pets, you give up your right to your ownership category if you want to bring your pet.
> 
> As for rules that pets are not allowed--if there is one building out of 5 or 10 that is designated, it could be voted on and changed.
> There is no such thing that by laws cannot be changed--pure nonsense.
> ...



I agree that more people would prefer timeshare as an option if bringing your pet was more widespread and could possibly keep resale prices up. And I also think that some accommodations can be made to designate a certain building or number of units for dogs, in the vast majority of resorts. I would live with a bad view or a ground floor unit to be able bring my pet at certain places. Then it could also mean that a non pet owner gets a better view or higher floor On the flip side.


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## bazzap (Nov 13, 2020)

Like every other MVC owner, we purchased (all 11 of our weeks) based on the Legal Disclosure documents which specifically exclude pets.
I would expect these contractual commitments to be adhered to.
My understanding, certainly for the MVC resort I am most familiar with, is that the only possible way in which these could even be considered for change would be through calling an Extraordinary General Meeting at the resort.
The quorum for these meetings shall be not less than the lesser of 300 Members or one fifth of the total number of Members, and a majority of Committee members.
This is highly unlikely to ever happen and I sincerely hope and trust that it never does.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 13, 2020)

hcarman said:


> I have to say that my experience has been the dogs I have seen at the resorts - whether they be service or not - have been quieter and better behaved than some of the children.


Not my experience.


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## Dean (Nov 13, 2020)

vail said:


> Last point--it does not matter what you own--ocean or whatever--if you want to bring a pet and there is one building that allows pets, you give up your right to your ownership category if you want to bring your pet.
> 
> As for rules that pets are not allowed--if there is one building out of 5 or 10 that is designated, it could be voted on and changed.
> There is no such thing that by laws cannot be changed--pure nonsense.


I believe you underestimate the complexity even if it were 1floor on 1 building at Grande Ocean, that's 8 units.  It's not a question of hating dogs, it's a matter of the multitude of factors, costs, unit assignments and risk.  Could they, sure they could.  As a dog lover, at lest our dogs over the years, I would not have taken them to a timeshare.  As I mentioned, Bluegreen explored this pretty extensively and have seen no reason to go forward.  If they could make a buck you can bet that Bluegreen, Diamond, Wyndham would have done so.  I also mentioned that a few years ago I talked to several Westgate properties that allowed pets to see what the process worked.  Even for those that allowed them, they did not seem enthused dealing with it.  And they all did it differently.  


alexadeparis said:


> I agree that more people would prefer timeshare as an option if bringing your pet was more widespread and could possibly keep resale prices up. And I also think that some accommodations can be made to designate a certain building or number of units for dogs, in the vast majority of resorts. I would live with a bad view or a ground floor unit to be able bring my pet at certain places. Then it could also mean that a non pet owner gets a better view or higher floor On the flip side.


The reality is that most pet owners would still prefer not to have pets at a hotel or timeshare.  I doubt allowing pets would affect the acceptance of timeshares.


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## Dean (Nov 13, 2020)

BocaBoy said:


> Not my experience.


Nor mine.


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## Big Matt (Nov 13, 2020)

I think the dog people are missing the point about what happens when you mix up a lot of dogs with other dogs and people.  Muffy might be nice and friendly in your home with your spouse and no other people, but what happens if a pit bull takes a bite out of Muffy.  What if it bites a child.  How do the resorts set up space for dog walking, peeing, etc.  What happens if a dog wrecks a condo and the resort has to take it off line for a week or two.  Seems like a real bad idea.  Seems like a lot of liability.  Seems like a lot of me first.


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## Superchief (Nov 13, 2020)

I think it is hard enough to get owners to behave without their pets. Pets usually aren't the problems, it is the owners who typically cause pets to become problems. How many times do you see people with dogs off leash in pet parks and hiking trails where there are leash laws? We have 2 well behaved rescue pits who love people and most other dogs. We no longer take them on leashes in public places because other dogs (not on leash) come up to them and try to start something. Then their owners get mad if our dogs bark at them. Little dogs cause more problems than big dogs. Dogs aren't toys.


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## vail (Nov 13, 2020)

From what I read here, this is not indicative of what happens in the real world.
Dogs are everywhere in society and if you travel to hotels that allow pets you would see 
how many dogs actually stay at hotels that allow them.

It would not be a question of one floor in one building.
If one entire building was dedicated to pets at a location such as Hilton Head for example, 
that building would always be full and probably have a waiting list some weeks.

People that own at the other Marriott timeshares would be eager to trade into it.
The pet industry did not become an 80 billion dollar industry for nothing...

Change is very difficult regardless of the situation.
I am not saying it will happen anytime soon.
But if a timeshare that was not doing particularly well wanted to try it, they may see their fortunes change.

Let's face reality--most timeshares today have a 0 value.
When you can rent a unit most places easily for what the maintenance fees are, why bother owning?

I saw a Marriott Surfwatch 2 BR Oceanside Platinum week going for almost nothing on ebay.
The only reason I didn't bid is that I have no trouble renting additional Hilton Head weeks every year.
There is no shortage and the price is usually the same as the maintenance fee, and I always get the exact weeks I want.

When owners start having difficulty renting the units, or owners have trouble paying the rising maintenance fees,
or start getting older and can no longer travel,  than change will happen.


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## heathpack (Nov 13, 2020)

Superchief said:


> I think it is hard enough to get owners to behave without their pets. Pets usually aren't the problems, it is the owners who typically cause pets to become problems. How many times do you see people with dogs off leash in pet parks and hiking trails where there are leash laws? We have 2 well behaved rescue pits who love people and most other dogs. We no longer take them on leashes in public places because other dogs (not on leash) come up to them and try to start something. Then their owners get mad if our dogs bark at them. Little dogs cause more problems than big dogs. Dogs aren't toys.



Lol as the owner of two little dogs, I would disagree.  I think folks who own big dogs who are too strong for them to control cause more problems than little dogs.  I’m ribbing you but really making to point that it’s a matter of perspective a lot of times.  I know a pit bull could kill one of my dogs in one bite, so all I remember are the lunging pit bulls who drag their owners down the sidewalk, and I never remember the polite pit bull walking calmly on his leash.

My dogs got chased at the park on two consecutive days by big dogs (none of us should have had our dogs off leash at this particular park, so we’re both to blame, but when I let mine off we were the only ones in the small neighborhood park, each time the big dogs came in after).  Now they are afraid of big dogs and want to bark defensively at them.  Every time we encounter a big dog, I have to preemptively get their attention and remind them not to bark.  Sometimes a muffled little “ruf” or two escapes, we’re working on it.

It amazes me though how many owners never work on correcting undesirable behavior. I’m talking about the lunging snarling yapping Pomeranian with the owner standing at the other end of the leash, passively doing nothing to suggest to the dog that that behavior is not acceptable.  Jeepers.  Same with kids though- there’s a subset of people who seem to believe they are powerless to shape the behavior of the little creatures they’re responsible for, so they don’t even try.  Nor do they seem concerned about how that unruly behavior disrupts others.

The general public also has loopy ideas about what constitutes “good behavior” by a dog.  There’s a misperception that excessively friendly behavior is “good”. I’m talking about the excessively friendly behavior of many golden doodles for example, the type of dog who wants to rush up and get in the personal space of every dog it encounters.  Actually by canine standards that is very rude behavior, and polite greetings are far more restrained and respectful of the other dogs personal space.  But many (most?) humans think this excessively friendly behavior is desirable and they encourage it.  It creates a lot of problems out on a walk.  For little dogs like mine, who are appalled by the rudeness and feel threatened.  And for pit bulls like yours who god forbid snap or growl at the intrusion and get a hysterical human reaction.

”My dog is friendly, don’t worry!!!!!!!”  Back off clueless person and dog!

I travel with my dogs all the time, mostly AirBnBs.  But even I don’t think dogs at Marriott timeshares is a great idea.  Mostly based on how people themselves behave and seeing the things they let their kids do & the lack of parental supervision.  I think we‘d see equally bad canine behavior, frankly.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 13, 2020)

vail said:


> Last point--it does not matter what you own--ocean or whatever--if you want to bring a pet and there is one building that allows pets, you give up your right to your ownership category if you want to bring your pet.
> 
> As for rules that pets are not allowed--if there is one building out of 5 or 10 that is designated, it could be voted on and changed.
> There is no such thing that by laws cannot be changed--pure nonsense.
> ...



Geeze, why is it automatically assumed that people who like that their timeshare resorts aren't dog-friendly, "obviously hate dogs?" I don't hate smokers (in fact I hate that they're treated like lepers and I'm in favor of giving them nicer outdoor space to enjoy their habit) but I like that the indoor spaces at my timeshares are smoke-free. I don't hate music but I like that my timeshare resorts post quiet hours. I don't hate people who are comfortable with cramming eighteen relatives and all their mothers-in-law into a 1BR but I like that my timeshare resorts have occupancy limits that discourage overcrowding.

Let's not accuse Marty of hating anything until/unless he admits to it, okay?

Back to the "one pet-friendly building in every resort footprint" idea - for every unit placement that does not conform to the unit/view type that was purchased/sold as such, there must be a counter-acting unit placement. Who decides which of the "garden view" owners will be upgraded to the "oceanfront" unit that's vacated by an owner who chooses to give up his rightful placement so that his dog can stay in the one GV pet-friendly building, and who's going to deal with all the complaints from the rest of the GV owners who don't get upgraded?

As for changing the by-laws to re-designate a building to pet-friendly after it was sold as pet-free, good luck! Sure, there are provisions that allow for the ownership to exert control over the management company but it wouldn't be easy and it's not just a matter of violating inventory controls. It requires a majority quorum being reached, then a super-majority of owners voting in favor of the change, and maybe most importantly, Marriott's overt support of the issue because in practice their influence/rights are effectively insurmountable. Some Marriott timeshares have to resort to begging owners to vote their proxies for Annual Meetings and that's without a super-majority requirement! Plus it's worth noting that going by this one thread and every other similar TUG thread that's approached this issue, it's practically guaranteed that a "change one building to pet-friendly" voting item will be struck down handily. I know I wouldn't vote in favor of it.

This being TUG somehow every issue always comes down to the dollar value of an interval on the external resale market, and, whether an interval can be rented for at least the amount of MF's. <shrug> Those aren't the metrics I use to judge the value of my ownership. Taking into account that TUG represents less the majority of timeshare owners who exist in the world and more an ownership pool that ekes out every bit of value they can while exploiting every loophole (and I'm NOT saying this is a bad thing,) I'm just not as sure as some that existing resorts going pet-friendly is an issue we'll be confronting anytime soon.


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## Laurie (Nov 13, 2020)

jme said:


> Timeshares are not for pets, at least pertaining to this discussion about Hilton Head Marriott timeshares.
> If you want a resort or a resort building for pets, go buy a private condo and do with it what you will.


Exactly what we did -- in Hilton Head! 

We started out just looking for a condo on HHI for ourselves, never mind our dog. But we brought our dog a couple of times on short trip during our condo-hunting, on short notice, and had to check into one of very few pet-friendly motels there - not so wonderful. We so loved having her with us -- almost every restaurant's outdoor seating is dog-friendly -- that we ultimately decided on not only pet-friendly, but one of very few complexes that allows pet rentals to short-term guests, as well as long-term residents, and therefore has high pet-density. So we rent to people with dogs, and do have a Pet Addendum with some restrictions, rules & regs. (We have turned down folks wanting to bring cats, pigs, ferrets, birds, and maybe a snake - no joke!)

You'd think it could be problematic, both indoors and outdoors around the property, but it hasn't been. Residents and guests are for the most part courteous and conscientious. Honestly, we have had more interior issues with humans, large and small. We mostly only go down to our condo when we have a vacancy, which is almost never because of the pet policy. 

So based on our personal experience there, as well as our travels to European timeshares which mostly do allow pets, I can see multi-building timeshares allowing pets in one building, and I do wish for that. There are almost none that we can reach in a one day's drive from our home, and if there were, I'd definitely exchange into them if well-kept up, and they'd be in super-high demand.


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## bazzap (Nov 13, 2020)

Laurie said:


> Exactly what we did -- in Hilton Head!
> 
> We started out just looking for a condo on HHI for ourselves, never mind our dog. But we brought our dog a couple of times on short trip during our condo-hunting, on short notice, and had to check into one of very few pet-friendly motels there - not so wonderful. We so loved having her with us -- almost every restaurant's outdoor seating is dog-friendly -- that we ultimately decided on not only pet-friendly, but one of very few complexes that allows pet rentals to short-term guests, as well as long-term residents, and therefore has high pet-density. So we rent to people with dogs, and do have a Pet Addendum with some restrictions, rules & regs. (We have turned down folks wanting to bring cats, pigs, ferrets, birds, and maybe a snake - no joke!)
> 
> ...


Just for clarification from my personal experience, I have stayed at all of the European MVC timeshares and a number of the European non MVC timeshares.
I have not yet found one which accepts pets.


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## Dean (Nov 13, 2020)

bazzap said:


> Just for clarification from my personal experience, I have stayed at all of the European MVC timeshares and a number of the European non MVC timeshares.
> I have not yet found one which accepts pets.


There are a few in Orlando, one or 2 here and there and some of the Westgate properties that I've seen but it's certainly few and far between.


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## Laurie (Nov 13, 2020)

bazzap said:


> Just for clarification from my personal experience, I have stayed at all of the European MVC timeshares and a number of the European non MVC timeshares.
> I have not yet found one which accepts pets.


True - I did veer from Marriott-specific, and none of the pet-friendly European timeshares we've visited were Marriotts.


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## vail (Nov 13, 2020)

SueDonJ said:


> Geeze, why is it automatically assumed that people who like that their timeshare resorts aren't dog-friendly, "obviously hate dogs?" I don't hate smokers (in fact I hate that they're treated like lepers and I'm in favor of giving them nicer outdoor space to enjoy their habit) but I like that the indoor spaces at my timeshares are smoke-free. I don't hate music but I like that my timeshare resorts post quiet hours. I don't hate people who are comfortable with cramming eighteen relatives and all their mothers-in-law into a 1BR but I like that my timeshare resorts have occupancy limits that discourage overcrowding.
> 
> Let's not accuse Marty of hating anything until/unless he admits to it, okay?
> 
> ...



If your biggest issue is who decides is who is given what unit by the owner that gives up his oceanfront unit, than as you said, you really don't want pets at the timeshares.
I don't follow your analogy to "you don't hate smokers" and what that has to do with anything?

Once again, I did not say that the timeshares are going to become pet friendly anytime soon.
I also do not think that people that bring pets are justified in doing so if it is not permitted.
I also do not think that because something is a rule--no pets--that it can never be changed.
Or any other rule.
But change happens very slowly.

This was just an alternative viewpoint.
But I was not ready for some of the arguments that have been posted because I think they are so off point.


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## Superchief (Nov 14, 2020)

heathpack said:


> Lol as the owner of two little dogs, I would disagree.  I think folks who own big dogs who are too strong for them to control cause more problems than little dogs.  I’m ribbing you but really making to point that it’s a matter of perspective a lot of times.  I know a pit bull could kill one of my dogs in one bite, so all I remember are the lunging pit bulls who drag their owners down the sidewalk, and I never remember the polite pit bull walking calmly on his leash.
> 
> I travel with my dogs all the time, mostly AirBnBs.  But even I don’t think dogs at Marriott timeshares is a great idea.  Mostly based on how people themselves behave and seeing the things they let their kids do & the lack of parental supervision.  I think we‘d see equally bad canine behavior, frankly.


Our pits have been well treated and are the most affectionate dogs we've ever owned. They get along well with each other and other dogs and are not aggressive. They do not pull me or go after other dogs (or people) when I take them for a walk. I never would let them off leash. However, we have encountered off leash dogs aggressively come up to them and fortunately they haven't fought back. They are very protective dogs and I realize the damage they can do (especially to little dogs) if they did fight back. I've also read stories about pit bulls attacking small dogs as 'prey', but fortunately our dogs haven't done that. Our female even saved two baby 'orphaned' squirrels. We no longer go on walks in parks due to my concern about other dogs whose owners let them run wild. 

Most problems with dogs occur due to owner behavior, which is why I think allowing dogs at MVC timeshares is a bad idea. If many people ignore leash laws, they will likely ignore other common sense policies for pets at a timeshare.


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## hcarman (Nov 27, 2020)

BocaBoy said:


> Not my experience.


I have to say..........My experience again this week.


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## Fasttr (Dec 3, 2020)

Hopefully this is the start of a movement toward ending  the practice in hotels/villas as well.   









						New rule cracks down on emotional support animals on planes
					

Airlines no longer have to treat emotional support animals as service animals, a new Department of Transportation rule says.




					www.cnn.com


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## Superchief (Feb 3, 2021)

I've been staying at Surfwatch for the past 2 weeks and am amazed at how many dogs are staying here. I've seen at least 8 different owners with dogs on the property, and have heard barking dogs several times. None of them appear to be legitimate service animals. Although I would love to bring my dogs here to enjoy the beach, I still don't think MVC timeshares are set up to accommodate animals. I hope that MVC initiates a similar crackdown as the airlines and only  allow truly certified service animals that have been trained for a specific purpose.


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## Big Matt (Feb 3, 2021)

We probably have enough Marriott owners here on TUG to start a petition to be formally submitted to MCV.  I'm not volunteering, but would definitely sign it.

This is a problem that needs to be resolved.  I had the same experience at Grande Ocean three weeks ago, and have experienced dogs at every resort I've been to over the last couple of years (about 15 stays).  It's out of control.


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## Dean (Feb 3, 2021)

This problem will need to be addressed at timeshares and in general for the country at some point.  It'll likely be easier and  quicker to fix it with timeshares than in DC.


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## David10225 (Feb 5, 2021)

Just an observation but at MVC Legends and have seen 3 dogs being walked this week.

Also not sure if mentioned but Disney tried pets at specific buildings at Port Orleans resort (non timeshare) and I believe discontinued the practice.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 5, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I've been staying at Surfwatch for the past 2 weeks and am amazed at how many dogs are staying here. I've seen at least 8 different owners with dogs on the property, and have heard barking dogs several times. None of them appear to be legitimate service animals. Although I would love to bring my dogs here to enjoy the beach, I still don't think MVC timeshares are set up to accommodate animals. I hope that MVC initiates a similar crackdown as the airlines and only  allow truly certified service animals that have been trained for a specific purpose.





Big Matt said:


> We probably have enough Marriott owners here on TUG to start a petition to be formally submitted to MCV.  I'm not volunteering, but would definitely sign it.
> 
> This is a problem that needs to be resolved.  I had the same experience at Grande Ocean three weeks ago, and have experienced dogs at every resort I've been to over the last couple of years (about 15 stays).  It's out of control.



I'm not opposed to this, but what exactly would we petition for?  The recent changes for the airlines still doesn't permit them to ask for any documentation proving a animal is trained to be an assistance animal...it simply allowed them to restrict "emotional support animals".  There are no certification programs in the US.  I'm just not sure what we can practically ask MVC to do.

Spent two weeks at Aruba Surf Club in October and there were several dogs with US owners.  I was a bit surprised as I figured it would be quite a hassle to get them in and out of Aruba (in normal times, much less during COVID).



David10225 said:


> Also not sure if mentioned but Disney tried pets at specific buildings at Port Orleans resort (non timeshare) and I believe discontinued the practice.



Nope - still going on in "pilot": https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/rooms-packages/hotels-pet-friendly/


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## jme (Feb 5, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I've been staying at Surfwatch for the past 2 weeks and am amazed at how many dogs are staying here. I've seen at least 8 different owners with dogs on the property, and have heard barking dogs several times. None of them appear to be legitimate service animals. Although I would love to bring my dogs here to enjoy the beach, I still don't think MVC timeshares are set up to accommodate animals. I hope that MVC initiates a similar crackdown as the airlines and only  allow truly certified service animals that have been trained for a specific purpose.



Complain to the resort manager. I have several times.
If they get enough complaints they will see it's not condoned by the owners.
The resort has a problem with the "legality" of asking for documentation, but overwhelming complaints will eventually lead to change.
I submit that cheating by bringing in a non-service animal is what's ILLEGAL, and a slap in the face of all owners.

I believe we ALL PAY for unit cleanup, rather than only the guest (with pet) paying for it---If so, THAT IS LUDICROUS.

They demand our ID when we check in, why not check out the animal? It's insane.

(Another unspoken consequence of having MORE & MORE animals staying at a resort would be the increase
of DAILY daily daily daily "deposits" of animal waste all over the grounds of the landscape,
and as we know, children run and play "off the sidewalks" whenever they are outside, or simply walking along,
so imho that is not a desirable thing. In the summer, many kids are barefoot.
I've had to clean off sneakers a couple of times myself, and it's not my favorite resort activity.
Shall we be forced to report our resort to the Health Department?)


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## geist1223 (Feb 5, 2021)

Under Federal Law in the USA Resorts are only allowed to ask two questions and there is no requirement for paper proof that the Dog is a Service Animal.


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## jme (Feb 5, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> Under Federal Law in the USA Resorts are only allowed to ask two questions and there is no requirement for paper proof that the Dog is a Service Animal.



Yep, but THAT'S what needs to change.  It's a ridiculous federal law that has loopholes.......quite typical.
DUH  for the feds' thought process that went into that.


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## Dean (Feb 5, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> Under Federal Law in the USA Resorts are only allowed to ask two questions and there is no requirement for paper proof that the Dog is a Service Animal.


But they don't even do that, IMO that is the minimum they should do.  They do have other options if the animal is unruly or the owner doesn't follow the other rules.  Of course since these people are by definition dishonest, a majority of them would still likely lie if asked.


jme said:


> Yep, but THAT'S what needs to change.  It's a ridiculous federal law that has loopholes.......quite typical.
> DUH  for the feds' thought process that went into that.


Exactly.


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## Big Matt (Feb 5, 2021)

ocdb8r said:


> I'm not opposed to this, but what exactly would we petition for?


A policy such as:

At check in:  Do you have a service animal?  If yes: What type of animal is it and what size?  Thank you.  If they say "I have an emotional support animal", just tell them that they are not allowed and provide a list of local kennels.

From ADA:  *Service animals* are working *animals*, not pets. The work or task a *dog* has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person's disability. *Dogs* whose sole function is to provide comfort or *emotional support* do not qualify as *service animals* under the ADA. 

Simple things like this will weed it out.  If they get caught with a non-service animal, they should be booted immediately and charged a fee to clean the unit.


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## jme (Feb 5, 2021)

And the fEE is t


Big Matt said:


> A policy such as:
> 
> At check in:  Do you have a service animal?  If yes: What type of animal is it and what size?  Thank you.  If they say "I have an emotional support animal", just tell them that they are not allowed and provide a list of local kennels.
> 
> ...



Amen.

A significant FEE is the key!!!!!  

Next time, we'll ALL see just how much EMOTIONAL SUPPORT the guest actually needs!!!  My wild guess is NONE.


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## Dean (Feb 5, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> A policy such as:
> 
> At check in:  Do you have a service animal?  If yes: What type of animal is it and what size?  Thank you.  If they say "I have an emotional support animal", just tell them that they are not allowed and provide a list of local kennels.
> 
> ...


Someone willing to get on the internet and buy a vest that says service animal when it's not will very likely just lie.  The time has come for a registration system and a requirement to produce such.  With so many people abusing the system that would be a positive to those who actually need and have one because now they're often lumped in with the abusers.


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## ocdb8r (Feb 5, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> A policy such as:
> 
> At check in:  Do you have a service animal?  If yes: What type of animal is it and what size?  Thank you.  If they say "I have an emotional support animal", just tell them that they are not allowed and provide a list of local kennels.
> 
> ...





Dean said:


> Someone willing to get on the internet and buy a vest that says service animal when it's not will very likely just lie.  The time has come for a registration system and a requirement to produce such.  With so many people abusing the system that would be a positive to those who actually need and have one because now they're often lumped in with the abusers.



This is my point - as far as the ADA is concerned, they legally cannot request any sort of proof that an animal is a "service animal" or "trained" nor can they ask you any questions about your disability.  If the person says "this is a service animal protected by the ADA" the conversation stops there (even if they say it AFTER they've said it's an emotional support animal).  No corporation is going to risk going any further.  Until there is some sort of proper registration system, I don't think there is much we can ask Marriott to do.

As to the law as it relates to "emotional support animals" it is unclear.  The Fair Housing Act requires accommodations be made for emotional support animals and it is not settled law whether the FHA applies to timeshares or not.  Case law indicates that the FHA may apply to timeshares...and if so, that means the emotional support animal accommodation rules would also apply.

Bottom line, I don't think pressuring Marriott is the answer here.  Legislation is going to be critical.


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## bazzap (Feb 5, 2021)

As an absolute minimum, which MVC can and should always be doing now”, even in the US
“You may ask an individual with a disability to remove a service animal from the premises (facility) if the animal is not housebroken or if the animal is out of control and the individual does not take effective action to control it.  Unwarranted and unprovoked violent behavior, such as uncontrolled barking, growling at other customers, jumping on other people, or running away from the owner are examples of unacceptable behavior.”
(This includes not allowing animals to be left in accommodation unattended)




__





						What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control? | ADA National Network
					

You may ask an individual with a disability to remove a service animal from the premises (facility) if the animal is not housebroken or if the animal is out of control and the individual does not take effective action to control it. Unwarranted and unprovoked violent behavior, such as...




					adata.org


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## pedro47 (Feb 5, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> A policy such as:
> 
> At check in:  Do you have a service animal?  If yes: What type of animal is it and what size?  Thank you.  If they say "I have an emotional support animal", just tell them that they are not allowed and provide a list of local kennels.
> 
> ...


Amen


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## Superchief (Feb 5, 2021)

I think it would be helpful if they included pet policy information in the email that is sent a few weeks prior to each stay. This email should clearly state that pets are prohibited and only certified service animals required for specific disabilities would be permitted. Additionally, the resort would require them to leave if the dog barked or left 'deposits' that weren't immediately removed by their owners. There should also be an additional fee charged to cover the additional cleaning needed for the villa. This should discourage people from trying to bring their pets. It is probably easier to keep people from trying to bring their pets rather than rejecting them on arrival.


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## Pompey Family (Feb 6, 2021)

Regarding documentation and requesting proof of disability, in the UK it is against the law to ask questions about a person's disability. I have a service dog. When she's working she has to wear her jacket which clearly states that she's a service dog and I also carry a card documenting her status as an official service dog. No-where on her jacket does it indicate what her purpose is or what my disability is although I do have a removable patch that does state my disability but I choose not to place it on her as it attracts too many unwanted personal questions. Nowhere should I be required to explain my disability or provide documented evidence of it whether it's checking into a hotel, boarding a flight or entering a shop. My dog has accompanied me to hotels (any hotel, pet friendly or not as they cannot discriminate). She doesn't bark, she lays quietly under the table whilst I'm eating, she doesn't chew, scratch or damage any furtniture, she's extremely approachable, perhaps too much and there has never been a problem. The only problem that I did encounter was when I stayed at a pet friendly hotel which was full of uncontrollable dogs including one that was let off the lead by its owner as soon as he stepped into the lobby and then immediately ran over to attack my dog. Service dogs undergo months of intensive training, I trained with mine twice weekly for a year before she was accredited, in order that they can be taken anywhere and perform their role without disruption to anyone else. Most dogs, including 'emotional support' dogs don't have anywhere near that level of training and therefore don't belong in hotels or resorts.


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## bazzap (Feb 6, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I think it would be helpful if they included pet policy information in the email that is sent a few weeks prior to each stay. This email should clearly state that pets are prohibited and only certified service animals required for specific disabilities would be permitted. Additionally, the resort would require them to leave if the dog barked or left 'deposits' that weren't immediately removed by their owners. There should also be an additional fee charged to cover the additional cleaning needed for the villa. This should discourage people from trying to bring their pets. It is probably easier to keep people from trying to bring their pets rather than rejecting them on arrival.


Some MVC resorts do highlight the “no pet” policy in their pre arrival emails


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## Dean (Feb 6, 2021)

Pompey Family said:


> Regarding documentation and requesting proof of disability, in the UK it is against the law to ask questions about a person's disability. I have a service dog. When she's working she has to wear her jacket which clearly states that she's a service dog and I also carry a card documenting her status as an official service dog. No-where on her jacket does it indicate what her purpose is or what my disability is although I do have a removable patch that does state my disability but I choose not to place it on her as it attracts too many unwanted personal questions. Nowhere should I be required to explain my disability or provide documented evidence of it whether it's checking into a hotel, boarding a flight or entering a shop. My dog has accompanied me to hotels (any hotel, pet friendly or not as they cannot discriminate). She doesn't bark, she lays quietly under the table whilst I'm eating, she doesn't chew, scratch or damage any furtniture, she's extremely approachable, perhaps too much and there has never been a problem. The only problem that I did encounter was when I stayed at a pet friendly hotel which was full of uncontrollable dogs including one that was let off the lead by its owner as soon as he stepped into the lobby and then immediately ran over to attack my dog. Service dogs undergo months of intensive training, I trained with mine twice weekly for a year before she was accredited, in order that they can be taken anywhere and perform their role without disruption to anyone else. Most dogs, including 'emotional support' dogs don't have anywhere near that level of training and therefore don't belong in hotels or resorts.


I don't think anyone's suggesting proof of disability at the point of service.  What I'm suggesting is that there are FAR too many people with emotional support animals and simply pets that are taking advantage of the current ADA rules.  Personally I believe it's hurting those with true service dogs to some degree and it's costing the owners of the properties money inappropriately whether it be timeshares or otherwise.  My suggestions also include that the resorts start to provide instructions that state NO pets or emotional support animals and that they only allow properly trained true ADA animals.  Timeshares can do this by plaques, emails, etc.  That they also ask the question they can ask currently under federal law.  Also they start to exclude animals they can, such as those that are disrupting.  From a government standpoint I think the law should be changed to require registration and to have to present such registration of the animal.  That registration would have fairly strict requirements, basically the same ones required to get a true service animal now.


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## Superchief (Feb 6, 2021)

bazzap said:


> Some MVC resorts do highlight the “no pet” policy in their pre arrival emails
> View attachment 32020


What would MVC need to do to change their statement to: 'Trained service animals are permitted, but family pets and emotional support animals are prohibited at the resort. Proof of training will be required at check-in. '

Additionally, I suggest that all those who plan to bring a service animal inform MVC at least 3 weeks in advance. They can then be sent a list of rules for the animal (and owner) behavior that would result in being evicted from the resort without reimbursement. This would greatly reduce the number of dogs at most MVC resorts and potentially discourage people from risking abuse of the policy.


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## Pompey Family (Feb 6, 2021)

There is the problem that anyone can buy a jacket/harness with 'Service Dog' written on it with no requirement to provide evidence that their dog is an accredited service dog. Whilst I carry official documentation proving that my dog is an accredited service dog I have never been asked to produce it, people see the jacket and make the assumption that she is an official service dog or perhaps are too nervous to check. I struggle to understand why there is no official documentation system in the US for proof of service dog status but even if there was, my experience suggests that checks would be few and far between.


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## Big Matt (Feb 6, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I think it would be helpful if they included pet policy information in the email that is sent a few weeks prior to each stay. This email should clearly state that pets are prohibited and only certified service animals required for specific disabilities would be permitted. Additionally, the resort would require them to leave if the dog barked or left 'deposits' that weren't immediately removed by their owners. There should also be an additional fee charged to cover the additional cleaning needed for the villa. This should discourage people from trying to bring their pets. It is probably easier to keep people from trying to bring their pets rather than rejecting them on arrival.


This is a very reasonable approach


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## deniseh (Feb 6, 2021)

Superchief said:


> I've been staying at Surfwatch for the past 2 weeks and am amazed at how many dogs are staying here. I've seen at least 8 different owners with dogs on the property, and have heard barking dogs several times. None of them appear to be legitimate service animals. Although I would love to bring my dogs here to enjoy the beach, I still don't think MVC timeshares are set up to accommodate animals. I hope that MVC initiates a similar crackdown as the airlines and only  allow truly certified service animals that have been trained for a specific purpose.


I agree 100% but I fear that for those guests who have been allowed to come with animals who are not truly service animals it will be challenging for the resorts to now place more limitations. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s hard to put the genie back in the box. Recently at ocean pointe and had a nice conversation with another owner in the hot tub and lo and behold up walks his wife with their obvious pet on a leash. I certainly was not going to confront him but feel that the resorts are not a place to bring any pets. I do understand true service animals and they should be allowed.


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## Big Matt (Feb 7, 2021)

deniseh said:


> I agree 100% but I fear that for those guests who have been allowed to come with animals who are not truly service animals it will be challenging for the resorts to now place more limitations. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s hard to put the genie back in the box. Recently at ocean pointe and had a nice conversation with another owner in the hot tub and lo and behold up walks his wife with their obvious pet on a leash. I certainly was not going to confront him but feel that the resorts are not a place to bring any pets. I do understand true service animals and they should be allowed.


I don't know if Pandora's box is really open or not.  The reason that I say that is because the pet owners never tell the front desk that they have a pet.  I'm sure those with service animals do or at least many do.  I somewhat believe this is more like smoking and how they got rid of that.  Some people still abuse the smoking regulations, but honestly, I see/smell less of that than the pets.


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## Superchief (Feb 7, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> I don't know if Pandora's box is really open or not.  The reason that I say that is because the pet owners never tell the front desk that they have a pet.  I'm sure those with service animals do or at least many do.  I somewhat believe this is more like smoking and how they got rid of that.  Some people still abuse the smoking regulations, but honestly, I see/smell less of that than the pets.


One of the people I saw here walking his dog was also smoking a cigarette in a non-smoking area while walking the dog. I doubt that he carried a plastic bag for cleanup.


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## deniseh (Feb 7, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> I don't know if Pandora's box is really open or not.  The reason that I say that is because the pet owners never tell the front desk that they have a pet.  I'm sure those with service animals do or at least many do.  I somewhat believe this is more like smoking and how they got rid of that.  Some people still abuse the smoking regulations, but honestly, I see/smell less of that than the pets.
> [/QUOTE
> Agreed. Seems very easy to check in without anyone being formally notified that there is an animal in the villa.


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## hkjudy (Feb 18, 2021)

_[Threads merged.] <-- SueDonJ_

Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.


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## Lv2Trvl (Feb 18, 2021)

No.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (Feb 18, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “*Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people*”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.


The problem is the dogs aren't in control, the people are. Look at all the fake ADA dogs on planes (as well as horses, cats and chinchillas) taking advantage of the truly needy, and the "I'm important and what I want is all that matters" folks. The disrespectful types will let their dogs pee and poo in the room and blame someone else.

Nope, not a precedent I want to see at MVC resorts. And we have two dogs and two cats... My prediction is your movement won't move much here.


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## stslc (Feb 19, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.


Not interested in me or anyone else having a dog at any Marriott resort or on a plane I may be flying on to get there.


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## James G (Feb 19, 2021)

I second the NO


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## Lv2Trvl (Feb 19, 2021)

I have five cats, that I would love to have travel with me to Kauai etc.! But I pay my favorite pet sitter to care for them while I enjoy the warm sands of Hawaii!! I don't want pets in and out of the villas I stay out.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## alexadeparis (Feb 19, 2021)

There is a thread not too far down on this forum about the amount of fake service dogs, etc at the resorts. I love my dogs, and I have to pay a person to stay in my home when I am away because one of my dogs has separation anxiety. As much as I would love to bring them if it were an extended stay, I wouldn’t  put them through the plane trip for a week. And I have a noisy neighbor at home that constantly has a barking dog, I don’t really want that on vacation too, sorry.


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## bazzap (Feb 19, 2021)

Pets are not allowed at any MVC resorts.
As Owners, we all agreed to this when we signed up to buy our weeks or points.
We should all accept and respect this rule.


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## m61376 (Feb 19, 2021)

I totally agree. For many people it’s not a question of whether or not they like dogs, but a health issue. My Hubble is really allergic to dogs (I knew when I married him it’d be a choice of a dog or him, and so far he’s won out); seriously, for some people there’s no such thing as a hypo-allergenic dog, and the animal dander in the room would make for a miserable vacation.


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## dougp26364 (Feb 19, 2021)

We own one resort in Breckenridge specifically because it allows dogs and yes, I would not mind if MVC allowed dogs, even though it’s unlikely we would take ours secondary to the hassle of flying with pets.

in general, there are few issues at the resort we own which allows dogs. Of course there are a few pet owners that do t respect the rules, but those are likely the same people who disregard other rules.

It is highly unlikely MVC will ever allow pets, and I’m fine with this rule. There is likely many more that own MVC at this point t because they don’t allow pets than owners who would like to take their pets.


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## geist1223 (Feb 19, 2021)

No Dogs or other Pets in Timeshares.


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.


Not only would I not want pets at the resorts but I feel they need to be far more aggressive in preventing the ones that sneak in now.  I'm not opposed to having specific units for pets but with  weeks, points, view types, unit sizes, etc; it'd be almost impossible at many Marriott's to have designated units.  Other timeshares have tried or explored the option but realized it's not very popular and extremely difficult to do in general.  In addition, the info I've seen suggests that rentals with pets are far more expensive to maintain, I see no reason to think it'd be otherwise for a timeshare.


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## NboroGirl (Feb 19, 2021)

As much as I love dogs, especially our family dogs, I, too would say no.  It's not so much the dogs that I object to, but like *davidvel* said, it's dog owners. It only takes one irresponsible dog owner to wreck someone's vacation.  If just one owner was gone (i.e. at a theme park) all day, the dog would be alone in the villa, probably barking anxiously at every sound they heard.


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## WVBaker (Feb 19, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.


Why in the world would you want your dog to go through that?


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## Mr. Vker (Feb 19, 2021)

Some times I have to stay at Towneplace suite. I can immediately tell if a dog has been in the room. I'm not interested in that for our timeshare investment. Our daughter inlaw is so allergic to dogs, she gets hives just going to a home that has dogs-even if the dogs aren't there. I don't think it would be that bad in a timeshare, but there is no way they could clean them enough. I love dogs, have had dogs, but not on vacation.


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## geist1223 (Feb 19, 2021)

My former DIL was highly allergic to Cats and Dogs. She had to carry a couple of Auto-injectors at all times. Once we got them a Studio in WM at Seaside Oregon. Within a couple of minutes of getting in the Room she started to have a reaction and had to flee the Room. They went to the Front Desk to complain.  Their recorded not show that a "Legal Declared Pet (Assistance Animal)" had ever been in the Room. They were able to find them another Studio.

Once when we were at Seaside a Condo down the hall had a declared "Assistance Animal Dog" that they left in the Unit for hours and it would Bark forever. Patti decided next time that happened she was going to call 911 reasoning that there must be an emergency if the dog is barking forever.

We did see how they cleaned a Unit after an Assistance Animl was in a Unit. They removed all the furniture for cleaning and thoroughly cleaned the Unit from ceiling, down the wall, the floor, and all the cabinets in the kitchen.


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2021)

Let me add that extremely few timeshares allow pets and frequently condo's with short term rentals only allow them for owners but not renters.  Sometimes people try to talk about "how much money the timeshare companies could make" but if that were true you'd see some go that route so I doubt it's true.  Maybe those that want it could ante up $1000 per year per membership for the option.  Then if enough sign up as a preregistration, it might be workable then.


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## BingoBangoBongo (Feb 19, 2021)

Consider all the joy you would be taking away from your pet when you walk in the door coming home from vacation.


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## jwalk03 (Feb 19, 2021)

Absolutely Not.  Leave your dogs at home.


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## b2bailey (Feb 19, 2021)

On my last visit to Ko-Olina, there was a couple there with a small dog. No attempt to masquerade as a service animal, though I'm certain that's how it was able to be there. Once, when it was frantically barking at me, it was all I could do not to say -- "That must be such a comfort for you."


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## dioxide45 (Feb 19, 2021)

Dean said:


> Let me add that extremely few timeshares allow pets and frequently condo's with short term rentals only allow them for owners but not renters.  Sometimes people try to talk about "how much money the timeshare companies could make" but if that were true you'd see some go that route so I doubt it's true.  Maybe those that want it could ante up $1000 per year per membership for the option.  Then if enough sign up as a preregistration, it might be workable then.


Just like with taking pets on aircraft, people will figure out a way to avoid the fee. People don't want to pay more to take their pet, they want to take their pet for free and have the associated costs spread across all the owners.


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## needvaca (Feb 19, 2021)

Absolutely not!


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## titanium2019 (Feb 19, 2021)

No dogs or pets at Marriott timeshares, ever!


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Just like with taking pets on aircraft, people will figure out a way to avoid the fee. People don't want to pay more to take their pet, they want to take their pet for free and have the associated costs spread across all the owners.


If you're saying it's a lost cause then I don't agree though it may be an uphill battle.  As in anything else rules are there to keep relatively honest people honest, dishonest people will always try to find a way around what ever rule is in question.  But they are by definition, dishonest.  My point about the additional fees was related to the OP about wanting to start a movement and I'd say sure, pony up the money if it's important.


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## Big Matt (Feb 19, 2021)

This thread is fun.  The answer is NO.  I almost wonder if OP just did this to incite a riot.  

I think the best place to take dogs are places that are dog friendly.  Near me, I can rent a cabin, go to the beach, or stay in a National Park and camp with a dog.  Those are good options.  I don't own a dog, but my son does, and traveling with the dog is a huge pain in the neck for him.


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## zentraveler (Feb 19, 2021)

Very firmly in the absolutely NO camp.


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## Pathways (Feb 19, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> _[Threads merged.] <-- SueDonJ_
> 
> Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?  We agree with the sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people”.  We would really like to start a movement to ask Marriott to have at least some dog-friendly units.  Interested? Please contact me at hkjudy at Gmail dot com.



This has to be a joke, right?



hkjudy said:


> sign at one of the (non—Marriott) resorts we have been to that said “_Dogs are generally more respectful to our property than people_”



This *has* to be one of the signs that 'Dr Rick' throws into the trash can in a Progressive commercial.


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## geist1223 (Feb 19, 2021)

Even with a true Assitance animal if it misbehaves Management can have it removed. To get Management to grow a spine concerning the fake assistant animals many members/owners need to complain every time.


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## hkjudy (Feb 20, 2021)

Ginny39 said:


> I find it disappointing that more and more people are bringing "comfort animals" to Marriott timeshares.  This only adds more expense to get the rooms cleaned and we are paying for the extra cleaning.  I think they should come up with a solution throughout MVC.  If they are going to allow the animals, by turning their head, then allow them in a confined area with extra fees that they pay.  My children pay high prices to have their pets in kennels while they are on vacation.  Others think only of themselves and  bring their dogs  along.  I saw a large German Shepherd at Timber Lodge, (this summer) where the owner once inside the hallway, took off the leash and let the dog run down the hall.
> 
> I am a member, I need to find my other log in, sorry.


You obviously have no idea what comfort animals do and how incredibly important they are to their owners.  Yes - you see more people with them now but thats because it has become recognized more recently how helpful they are to those with PTSD.  Please do not judge those who have a dog and do not look like they need one - PTSD is a invisible disease.  

On the issue of other dogs at Marriott resorts: We are happy to pay an average $50 pet fee when we go to hotels and boutique resorts and would be happy to pay the same when we visit our Marriott resorts. All have reserved only certain rooms that are pet friendly which answers your concern about allergies. Rules that dogs must be on a leash and poop picked up are always obeyed. Having seen the mess that some guests leave their units...I honestly do believe that the hair and footprints that is all that the majority of dogs leave behind is insignificant compared to that.


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## hkjudy (Feb 20, 2021)

Pathways said:


> This has to be a joke, right?
> 
> 
> 
> This *has* to be one of the signs that 'Dr Rick' throws into the trash can in a Progressive commercial.


Not a joke and sorry...I have no idea who “Dr. Rick“ is...guess I don’t listen to whatever those shows are.

Having seen the mess that some guests leave their units...I honestly do believe that the hair and footprints that is all that the majority of dogs leave behind is insignificant compared to that. And, like other hotels and resorts who are “pet friendly”, only a certain number of rooms are held for pet owners and they pay an extra fee for the privilege - so you wouldn’t get the cost passed on to you.


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## hkjudy (Feb 20, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> Even with a true Assitance animal if it misbehaves Management can have it removed. To get Management to grow a spine concerning the fake assistant animals many members/owners need to complain every time.



you see more people with assistance dogs now because it has become recognized more recently how helpful they are to those with PTSD.  Please do not judge those who have a dog and do not look like they need one - PTSD is a invisible disease.


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## hkjudy (Feb 20, 2021)

jme said:


> I did not mention it as THE main argument against pets being allowed in vacation accommodations, but only as one....
> 
> IMHO, it's rather the everyday disgusting habits and proclivities of dogs inside a human place of occupation that truly bother me.



those hotels and resorts that currently have pet friendly rooms only reserve a portion of their rooms for pet owners....those who have allergies or your horror at these animals (most of whom are cleaner and more respectful than some people) are in rooms that have never been touched by a (four-legged) animal.  If it’s dogs walking on the road near your unit that appalls you....surely there are dogs on your street at home?


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## hkjudy (Feb 20, 2021)

alchook said:


> The ADA does not allow hotels to ask for documentation for service animals. The hotel is only allowed to ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what the animal is trained to do. Curiously, they seem rather vague on whether the owner is required to answer the questions.



PTSD is an invisible disease and dogs are helping those with it to function in daily life and even take a vacation.  Please don’t assume that those who don’t look like they need a comfort dog don’t need one.  But...I agree that there should be some certification required by the resorts.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> PTSD is an invisible disease and dogs are helping those with it to function in daily life and even take a vacation.  Please don’t assume that those who don’t look like they need a comfort dog don’t need one.  But...I agree that there should be some certification required by the resorts.


A dog that is to support someone with PTSD is legally a service animal and trained as such. It should also behave as such and should also not be left alone in the unit and should not bark incessantly. I had a situation at Grande Vista last year when I walked past the balcony a dog would come running from inside the unit out the open balcony door and bark constantly as I walked by. I suspect there are far more people abusing the policy than those in need of it. Unfortunately it is those abusing the policy that are ruining it for those truly in need. All pets provide comfort and emotional support, and I don't think anyone is disputing that dogs trained to support someone with PTSD aren't service animals.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 20, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> You obviously have no idea what comfort animals do and how incredibly important they are to their owners.  Yes - you see more people with them now but thats because it has become recognized more recently how helpful they are to those with PTSD.  Please do not judge those who have a dog and do not look like they need one - PTSD is a invisible disease. ...



The problem I see here isn't that people don't recognize clinical PTSD as a legitimate diagnosis. It's that *if it's true* that dogs working in service to people suffering from clinical PTSD aren't already classified as "service dogs," the laws need to be changed to correct that classification and give these people protection to take their legitimate working dogs everywhere.



hkjudy said:


> ... On the issue of other dogs at Marriott resorts: We are happy to pay an average $50 pet fee when we go to hotels and boutique resorts and would be happy to pay the same when we visit our Marriott resorts. All have reserved only certain rooms that are pet friendly which answers your concern about allergies. Rules that dogs must be on a leash and poop picked up are always obeyed. Having seen the mess that some guests leave their units...I honestly do believe that the hair and footprints that is all that the majority of dogs leave behind is insignificant compared to that.



We stay at two different pet-friendly hotels (a TownPlace Suites and a Residence Inn) when we drive back-and-forth between MA and SC; one charges $75 and the other $100 as the nightly cleaning fee for pets. These rooms are basically the equivalent of a Studio unit in a timeshare so I would expect the fees to be higher in 1BR-and-larger timeshare units (if I wanted pets to be allowed at my timeshares, which I don't.) Also, "hair and footprints" are the least of what a pet leaves behind. Dander is the leading allergen when it comes to pets; it's practically invisible but it sheds constantly and gets into every soft surface from a building's entrance all the way to the rooms where pets are staying, and it requires a deep clean if a hotel/timeshare wants to correctly protect all of its guests.


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## ahdah (Feb 20, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> You obviously have no idea what comfort animals do and how incredibly important they are to their owners.  Yes - you see more people with them now but thats because it has become recognized more recently how helpful they are to those with PTSD.  Please do not judge those who have a dog and do not look like they need one - PTSD is a invisible disease.
> 
> On the issue of other dogs at Marriott resorts: We are happy to pay an average $50 pet fee when we go to hotels and boutique resorts and would be happy to pay the same when we visit our Marriott resorts. All have reserved only certain rooms that are pet friendly which answers your concern about allergies. Rules that dogs must be on a leash and poop picked up are always obeyed. Having seen the mess that some guests leave their units...I honestly do believe that the hair and footprints that is all that the majority of dogs leave behind is insignificant compared to that.


How rude!  Also rude to bring your pet to a timeshare and sneak them in, and probably leave them in the room when you go out to dinner.  I don't care how well behaved your dog is.  My husband had an allergy to pet dander You said how happy you would be to pay a fee to have the room cleaned  Why don't you do it now.  You have no idea who will be using the villa next, it could be a person who also has an allergy. You obey the rule and pick up poop but you do not obey the rule that says no pets.  
Find a timeshare that allows dogs.  Too many guests feel that the rules don't matter, but they do.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 20, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> The problem I see here isn't that people don't recognize clinical PTSD as a legitimate diagnosis. It's that *if it's true* that dogs working in service to people suffering from clinical PTSD aren't already classified as "service dogs," the laws need to be changed to correct that classification and give these people protection to take their legitimate working dogs everywhere.


From ADA;

*Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.*_ Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA._





__





						Redirecting…
					





					www.ada.gov
				




A dog can't calm someone in the event of an anxiety attack if the dog is back in the room while they are out to dinner or elsewhere.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 20, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> From ADA;
> 
> *Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.*_ Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA._
> 
> ...



Thanks! I had a feeling it wasn't correct to call them "comfort" dogs when it makes much more sense that they be classified as "service" dogs, but instead of looking it up I just put "if it's true ..." in my post.


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## bazzap (Feb 20, 2021)

I believe the exchanges here may have been meandering because of a lack of clarity in what is being asked?
I started reading about “Is there anybody else who would like to take their dog to a Marriott resort?”, which just about everyone commented that these are not allowed and that they do not want them at MVC resorts.
It seemed much later to move on to PTSD and genuine Service Animals, which are allowed and most if not all recognise and accept are right to allow.
It is hardly surprising that there are very different responses depending on what question is being asked.


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## geist1223 (Feb 20, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> You obviously have no idea what comfort animals do and how incredibly important they are to their owners.  Yes - you see more people with them now but thats because it has become recognized more recently how helpful they are to those with PTSD.  Please do not judge those who have a dog and do not look like they need one - PTSD is a invisible disease.
> 
> On the issue of other dogs at Marriott resorts: We are happy to pay an average $50 pet fee when we go to hotels and boutique resorts and would be happy to pay the same when we visit our Marriott resorts. All have reserved only certain rooms that are pet friendly which answers your concern about allergies. Rules that dogs must be on a leash and poop picked up are always obeyed. Having seen the mess that some guests leave their units...I honestly do believe that the hair and footprints that is all that the majority of dogs leave behind is insignificant compared to that.



The Like was a mistake. I hit the wrong buttom. I wish there was a thumbs down. I do not believe "comfort" animals belong in timeshare resorts, airplanes, hotels, restaurants, etc.


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## geist1223 (Feb 20, 2021)

But the dog must be specifically trained by a professional. They are always working. No visiting or petting by non-owner. No interaction with other dogs or people. Should not be left in Room for Hours by themselves.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 20, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> The Like was a mistake. I hit the wrong buttom. I wish there was a thumbs down. I do not believe "comfort" animals belong in timeshare resorts, airplanes, hotels, restaurants, etc.



I experimented with the Like button on one of Dioxide45's posts and yes, if you hit the "Like" button by mistake you can hit it again to "unlike" a post. Also, if you hover over it you'll see a few different emojis that can be clicked on to show like, love, anger, sad, etc...

(Hope all the clicking at least gave you some points for notifications, dioxide!)


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## Dean (Feb 20, 2021)

The only reasonable division is between ADA qualified animals and everything else.  Many people like having their pet with them and feel more comfortable.  The comfort animal craze for animals that are not ADA qualified is simply ridiculous.  As for $50. it'd be more like $50 per day.


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## jme (Feb 20, 2021)

hkjudy said:


> those hotels and resorts that currently have pet friendly rooms only reserve a portion of their rooms for pet owners....those who have allergies or your horror at these animals (most of whom are cleaner and more respectful than some people) are in rooms that have never been touched by a (four-legged) animal.  If it’s dogs walking on the road near your unit that appalls you....surely there are dogs on your street at home?



With all due respect, my remarks are only intended for the Marriott timeshare resorts which we own, and the enforcement of their current policies.
Timeshare resort owners who have invested tens of thousands of dollars do not deserve premeditated ILLEGAL visits by other guests 
who brought their pets or emotional support animals, both of which are prohibited NOW at Hilton Head Marriott resorts (and others). 
I am not referring to service animals. 
These people know they are using loopholes in violating the spirit and intent of the policies, and still they do not care.
It's the height of selfishness, period. 

So please enjoy going where your pets are welcome, but not where they are legally prohibited. 
When speaking of our timeshares, it's true real estate which my family owns, and they operate under certain laws already long established, 
including the phraseology in the deeded documents that "pets are prohibited".  
Therefore we do not want pets there, simple as that.  We leave ours at home, as we are required to. 
We don't care how clean you believe they are......do with them what you like........
we simply do not want them there while we and other owners are enjoying hard-earned vacations with their children. 

And no, it's not dogs WALKING on the road near me that appalls me, it's what they do WHILE they are walking. 
Sorry you missed that point. 
They may be cleaner than other people as you suggest (your opinion), but I don't see people defecating on the roads 
and paths, do you?  And invariably it's seldom cleaned up....only by a few. Unfortunately we're witnesses to that fact.


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## zentraveler (Feb 20, 2021)

Emotional support animals (ESA) are very different than service animals, which are specially trained (including for "emotional" disorders like PTSD, which as has been pointed out is quite real, debilitating and in need of all kinds of treatment including this one). 

As someone who is licensed to prescribe ESA, I can say emotional support animal requests, sometimes, but not always, come from people who merely want the connivence/preference of taking their pets with them.  Many practitioners will write letters for anyone who asks them (not me), and one can buy them online which has led to the abuses (one website: $98. No expiration! Hurry Before Law Changes!)

The whole issue of emotional support for people in need, and emotional distress for others (ranging from dislike to deathly allergic reactions) is _extremely_ complicated. And the concept got out of hand as the word got out about the lax regulations, and people started bring all manner of pets on planes and in grocery stores and spoiling this option for legitimate reasons.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 20, 2021)

jme said:


> With all due respect, my remarks are only intended for the Marriott timeshare resorts which we own, and the enforcement of their current policies.
> Timeshare resort owners who have invested tens of thousands of dollars do not deserve premeditated ILLEGAL visits by other guests
> who brought their pets or emotional support animals, both of which are prohibited NOW at Hilton Head Marriott resorts (and others).
> I am not referring to service animals.
> ...



I agree with you, Marty, and want Marriott to figure out a way to ensure that the ONLY animals onsite at my timeshares are those that are legally allowed to be there by virtue of ADA protections granted to actual, working service dogs.

I'm just not as sure that the t&c's in effect at the time we bought can be relied upon forever to ensure that pets will never be allowed. Consider that thousands of owners bought during a time when it was perfectly within their rights to smoke anywhere on property including inside the units. Some resorts implemented restrictions when public opinion was the only thing working against them, followed by all resorts imposing much stricter rules when local and state laws gave them the teeth to do so. So while I don't want pets onsite any more than you do, it won't surprise me if the day ever comes that owners vote in numbers large enough to change those rules, or, that Marriott unilaterally changes the rules and owners don't revolt in large enough numbers to overcome Marriott's position. It's not like we haven't seen that happen before. I don't expect pets to be allowed anytime soon but the push seems to be gaining ground, and I honestly wonder if the reason we're seeing more pets onsite is because Marriott's simply not fighting the rising tide.


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## bazzap (Feb 20, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> I agree with you, Marty, and want Marriott to figure out a way to ensure that the ONLY animals onsite at my timeshares are those that are legally allowed to be there by virtue of ADA protections granted to actual, working service dogs.
> 
> I'm just not as sure that the t&c's in effect at the time we bought can be relied upon forever to ensure that pets will never be allowed. Consider that thousands of owners bought during a time when it was perfectly within their rights to smoke anywhere on property including inside the units. Some resorts implemented restrictions when public opinion was the only thing working against them, followed by all resorts imposing much stricter rules when local and state laws gave them the teeth to do so. So while I don't want pets onsite any more than you do, it won't surprise me if the day ever comes that owners vote in numbers large enough to change those rules, or, that Marriott unilaterally changes the rules and owners don't revolt in large enough numbers to overcome Marriott's position. It's not like we haven't seen that happen before. I don't expect pets to be allowed anytime soon but the push seems to be gaining ground, and I honestly wonder if the reason we're seeing more pets onsite is because Marriott's simply not fighting the rising tide.


This seems to be a very US centric issue.
In all the European and Asian MVC resorts in almost 20 years, I have only ever once seen a pet dog on site.
The MVC resort management advised the owners that the pet dog must be taken off site and they had left by the following day.
The situation was handled quickly, effectively and professionally, as should be expected.


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## vail (Feb 20, 2021)

Things change....there were Marriott's here in Vail--timeshares that are no longer Marriott's
The majority if they ever decide to allow pets at any resort is more than a  possibility.
It will eventually happen.

Of course the problem of people not picking up after their pets is a completely different issue--and it is against the law not to.
If people are going to break rules or laws that is an entirely different issue from whether eventually pets will be allowed at timeshares, whether you like it or not.
The trend says yes--it may take a while, but it will happen with certainty.
When Caesar's Palace and Ritz Carlton started allowing pets, among others, that was the writing on the wall of a change in trends.


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## bazzap (Feb 21, 2021)

There is a fairly basic difference with MVC resorts, as we are all Owners of the resorts for which MVC is the Management Company.
Unless government legislation dictated otherwise, any decision to allow pets would require a change to the resort legal documents following approval by the Owner Board / majority of Owners, which is highly unlikely to happen.


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## Dean (Feb 21, 2021)

vail said:


> Things change....there were Marriott's here in Vail--timeshares that are no longer Marriott's
> The majority if they ever decide to allow pets at any resort is more than a  possibility.
> It will eventually happen.
> 
> ...


Things change but IMO it's unlikely to do so with MVC in favor of bringing pets to include comfort animals.  I believe to suggest it's inevitable would be unreasonable.  What's likely to change is that the resorts get more stringent in what they can do and that eventually Congress takes up the issue to better allow enforcement.


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## zentraveler (Feb 21, 2021)

Dean said:


> Things change but IMO it's unlikely to do so with MVC in favor of bringing pets to include comfort animals.  I believe to suggest it's inevitable would be unreasonable.  What's likely to change is that the resorts get more stringent in what they can do and that eventually Congress takes up the issue to better allow enforcement.



The airlines eventually got fed up with the abuses of emotional support animals (ESA's) and are now forbidding them altogether (except service animals which I pointed out in a different post are not the same as ESA).


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## dioxide45 (Feb 21, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> The airlines eventually got fed up with the abuses of emotional support animals (ESA's) and are now forbidding them altogether (except service animals which I pointed out in a different post are not the same as ESA).


It wasn't really that they got fed up, they took advantage of a rule change by the Department of Transportation which stopped considering emotional support animals as service animals. So previously, the airlines didn't have a choice.


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## zentraveler (Feb 21, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> It wasn't really that they got fed up, they took advantage of a rule change by the Department of Transportation which stopped considering emotional support animals as service animals. So previously, the airlines didn't have a choice.



Thanks for clarification and education dioxide45. No wonder few know the difference between the two categories.


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## zentraveler (Feb 22, 2021)

Well. So much for policies. I walked out on my balcony this evening at Kauai's Marriott Waiohai and saw a man walk out on his balcony being trailed by a small dog (who seemed to have no particular function as a service animal would). Just reporting.


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## hcarman (Feb 23, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> Well. So much for policies. I walked out on my balcony this evening at Kauai's Marriott Waiohai and saw a man walk out on his balcony being trailed by a small dog (who seemed to have no particular function as a service animal would). Just reporting.


You can’t tell from looking at a dog on a balcony whether it has a service function,  I have been trained for ADA at my job.  There are so many types of service animals - psychiatric, epilepsy, diabetic, sleep apnea, in addition to obvious ones like seeing eye, mobility, etc. Many people are short sighted and assume if they can’t see the animal performing the function that it can’t be service.  And many think only big dogs are service.  Small dogs are used more often for epilepsy, psychiatric, etc. because they are easier to bring to work or travel with.  Not saying there aren’t those that fake service dogs - just saying you can’t stereotype or make generalizations.  That’s like saying if you can’t see a person’s handicap or disability that they don’t have one.


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## hcarman (Feb 23, 2021)

jme said:


> With all due respect, my remarks are only intended for the Marriott timeshare resorts which we own, and the enforcement of their current policies.
> Timeshare resort owners who have invested tens of thousands of dollars do not deserve premeditated ILLEGAL visits by other guests
> who brought their pets or emotional support animals, both of which are prohibited NOW at Hilton Head Marriott resorts (and others).
> I am not referring to service animals.
> ...


Actually - on three vacations we have seen young children defecating in the pool.  The pools were closed for 36 plus hours for the cleaning procedure and inspection - leaving the whole resort with just one pool.  Wonder if Marriott charged the parents a cleaning fee for that?   It certainly inconvenienced the guests.


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## nanceetom (Feb 23, 2021)

hcarman said:


> You can’t tell from looking at a dog on a balcony whether it has a service function,  I have been trained for ADA at my job.  There are so many types of service animals - psychiatric, epilepsy, diabetic, sleep apnea, in addition to obvious ones like seeing eye, mobility, etc. Many people are short sighted and assume if they can’t see the animal performing the function that it can’t be service.  And many think only big dogs are service.  Small dogs are used more often for epilepsy, psychiatric, etc. because they are easier to bring to work or travel with.  Not saying there aren’t those that fake service dogs - just saying you can’t stereotype or make generalizations.  That’s like saying if you can’t see a person’s handicap or disability that they don’t have one.


I totally agree.  I have seen a ‘small’ service dog save a child from an instant diabetic attack.  Many of these dogs are a godsend to many and cost the person 35,000+ to obtain.


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## jme (Feb 23, 2021)

hcarman said:


> Actually - on three vacations we have seen young children defecating in the pool.  The pools were closed for 36 plus hours for the cleaning procedure and inspection - leaving the whole resort with just one pool.  Wonder if Marriott charged the parents a cleaning fee for that?   It certainly inconvenienced the guests.




OMG.  Really?   Babies/toddlers versus ILLEGAL pets? Good luck with that argument. 

Once again I'm NOT talking about service animals---- I'm trying to rid our resorts of ILLEGAL pets, 
where the policy already stands that they are not allowed. If you want to go somewhere that allows all pets, that's wonderful. 
There's a HUGE contingent of owners who do NOT want pets sharing the resort, especially the villas and immediate grounds where children are.


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## Dean (Feb 23, 2021)

Kids at the resort are an obligate component, pets are not, so the argument that the toddler does more damage is irrelevant and likely untrue anyway statistically.  I'm sure we all know there are legitimate service animals and that you can't always tell which ones are but you can often reliably tell which ones are not for a subset of them.  IMO it's become a case of the tail wagging the dog which is why I feel the time has come to require registration, documentation and the requirement to present same.  Just ignoring the issue hoping it will go way is stupid, it's only getting worse and will continue to do so.  So the resorts need to start asking the questions they can ask and requiring the animals to leave that meet the criteria to do so.  They also need to be aggressive with signage, emails and other documentation including possibly something to sign at check in to sign that says no pets and the consequences just like they do with smoking.


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## nanceetom (Feb 23, 2021)

jme said:


> OMG.  Really?   Babies/toddlers versus ILLEGAL pets? Good luck with that argument.
> 
> Once again I'm NOT talking about service animals---- I'm trying to rid our resorts of ILLEGAL pets,
> where the policy already stands that they are not allowed. If you want to go somewhere that allows all pets, that's wonderful.
> There's a HUGE contingent of owners who do NOT want pets sharing the resort, especially the villas and immediate grounds where children are.


The only positive  comments have been for for dogs  that perform a medical assistance.  And, personally, many feel like they can make that determination by, obviously, their own personal observation.  I think this thread has gotten into dangerous territory.


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## jme (Feb 23, 2021)

nanceetom said:


> The only positive  comments have been for for dogs  that perform a medical assistance.  And, personally, many feel like they can make that determination by, obviously, their own personal observation.  I think this thread has gotten into dangerous territory.



Personal observation can be a powerful thing. Sometimes it identifies the problem. So who is the villain?
So, let's do what seems to be the inevitable solution-----get a process whereby legitimate service animals are documented
and illegal pets are not,
and resorts can verify the authentic ones at reservation time (when they are announced and registered) and again at check-in.
Then the cheating and abuse would actually STOP (oh my gosh, say it isn't so!).

When authorities are NOT ALLOWED to ask for or seek documentation, then abuse naturally follows. 

I'm assuming you would be for that, ie, a universal system for actual documentation?
(But then, the selfish who wish to bring their pets wouldn't be able to slip in--- so you'd be against that?)

"Trust but verify".......quite a wise saying......

("So, sir, you've taken and passed a test, and you are qualified to drive a vehicle? May I see your Driver's License?"  
sound familiar?  It works.)


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## nanceetom (Feb 24, 2021)

jme said:


> Personal observation can be a powerful thing. Sometimes it identifies the problem. So who is the villain?
> So, let's do what seems to be the inevitable solution-----get a process whereby legitimate service animals are documented
> and illegal pets are not,
> and resorts can verify the authentic ones at reservation time (when they are announced and registered) and again at check-in.
> ...


Your comments would be better written to your Congressperson to amend the American for Disability Act.


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## Big Matt (Feb 24, 2021)

hcarman said:


> Actually - on three vacations we have seen young children defecating in the pool.  The pools were closed for 36 plus hours for the cleaning procedure and inspection - leaving the whole resort with just one pool.  Wonder if Marriott charged the parents a cleaning fee for that?   It certainly inconvenienced the guests.


That happens all the time at neighborhood pools.  It's expected and just part of having a pool that includes babies and kids.  Sure it is an inconvenience, but the poop doesn't stay for entire week like dogs/cats or whatever else is brought to the resort against the regulation.  Let's have some common sense.


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## vail (Feb 24, 2021)

It's expected?
What...kids defecating in a pool?
Regardless of what your views are on pets, kids should not be defecating in pools.
They should be in diapers....



> > > > > > > > _INNER PEACE _
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you can
> > > > > > > > start the day without caffeine
> > > > > > > > ...


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## deniseh (Feb 24, 2021)

Lv2Trvl said:


> I have five cats, that I would love to have travel with me to Kauai etc.! But I pay my favorite pet sitter to care for them while I enjoy the warm sands of Hawaii!! I don't want pets in and out of the villas I stay out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Agree 100%. I have two cats that I love to have around me but they would absolutely hate travel. They are best left at home where they are most comfortable. I am always happy to see them when I go home.


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## Big Matt (Feb 25, 2021)

vail said:


> It's expected?
> What...kids defecating in a pool?
> Regardless of what your views are on pets, kids should not be defecating in pools.
> They should be in diapers....


It happens all the time.  I don't like it either, but accidents happen.  I would say that it happens more often in neighborhood pools than at timeshares, but it happens at least 10-15 times each summer across our three community pools.  Swimmer diapers aren't foolproof and with hundreds of people.  Unfortunately it is expected to happen every year.


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## Pompey Family (Feb 26, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> Well. So much for policies. I walked out on my balcony this evening at Kauai's Marriott Waiohai and saw a man walk out on his balcony being trailed by a small dog (who seemed to have no particular function as a service animal would). Just reporting.



The organisation that supplied my service dog provides dogs of all sizes and breeds. One such dog is a very small cross breed and without her identification jacket on I suspect many people would not guess that she was a service dog.

When my dog travels with me she doesn't wear her jacket in the room just as she doesn't when at home, it's only worn when outside in public and when not exercising. If you were to pass my balcony and saw her she would most likely not be wearing her jacket and as such you'd have no way of establishing that she is a service dog.


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## geist1223 (Feb 26, 2021)

Jackets are not required for Service Animals. And unfortunately they are available on the Internet for anyone to buy.


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## Pompey Family (Feb 26, 2021)

geist1223 said:


> Jackets are not required for Service Animals. And unfortunately they are available on the Internet for anyone to buy.



Not in the US they're not which is what I find so puzzling.


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## DisneyJen (Mar 4, 2021)

DH and I are currently at MFV with my service dog. I copied this from my post ("Live from ...")

"This is no way was Marriott's fault as there are limitations under the Americans with Disability Act (ADA) about questions that a business can ask a person about their service dog.

I had a bit of an incident yesterday afternoon while out walking with my service dog. My dog wears his "Service Dog" harness and is on leash when we are in public and he is working.

It was beautiful day and we were taking a walk around the property. As we neared the firepit area a dog started barking and growling at us. As he is trained, my dog ignored the distraction and we kept walking. The barking dog was being held by a person sitting around the fire pit. Next thing I know the dog charges us, barking, growling and trying to bite me and or my dog. My dog ignored the distraction and we tried to keep walking but the other dog kept circling us.

The owner kept calling the dog's name and telling it to stop. The dog ignored both commands ... obviously not a trained service animal. Perhaps an emotional support animal which is not covered by the ADA. The owner tried to catch the dog and finally did. The owner said it has escaped its harness and they were sorry.

I was so shaken I didn't respond but kept walking.

I didn't report the issue to the front desk as I don't think there is anything they could have done about the situation.

People who have dogs that aren't well-mannered, under control and, most importantly, well trained do not have the rights I am afforded under the ADA. 

Please let us all be respectful of each other."


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## Fi2 (Mar 4, 2021)

DisneyJen, I am so sorry this happened to you! But I encourage you to report it. Bringing an obviously-not service animal on property is in clear violation of the rules, and those selfish guests should be asked to leave, if not barred from future stays.

I’ll also mention this incidence in my notes to the staff (I’ve been on property during so much of the recent renovations, that I’ve taken to emailing punch lists and other feedback every time we check out).


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## Fi2 (Mar 4, 2021)

DisneyJen said:


> People who have dogs that aren't well-mannered, under control and, most importantly, well trained do not have the rights I am afforded under the ADA.



Even people who have dogs that ARE well-mannered, under control, and well-trained have no right to bring them in, in clear violation of rules. I’m beyond appalled at such self-centeredness.


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## DisneyJen (Mar 4, 2021)

It


Fi2 said:


> Even people who have dogs that ARE well-mannered, under control, and well-trained have no right to bring them in, in clear violation of rules. I’m beyond appalled at such self-centeredness.



I agree Fi2. As others have posted, pets are happier in their home while their owners are away.

Service dogs have been trained from a young age to ignore distractions and bond to their human. My service dog will bark and paw at my DH to  let him know that he (the dog) can't see me.


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## aliciarooke (Mar 18, 2021)

vail said:


> From what I read here, this is not indicative of what happens in the real world.
> Dogs are everywhere in society and if you travel to hotels that allow pets you would see
> how many dogs actually stay at hotels that allow them.
> 
> ...



I agree but even a step further, why not have a designated doggy daycare to pay for nearby to  give owners a break and ease of mind while touring around on the beach or attraction at hand.


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 18, 2021)

For me, it's more than merely being concerned about dogs that are not service animals. I tend to break out with hives all over me when I am in an area where dogs have been inside. I know Marriott cleans rooms of course, but you can't remove 100% and they may not even know a pet was there. So, for true service animals, if indeed one stayed in the room before me and I got the horrible hives, I will suffer as I feel that's an inconvenience vs someone who really needed the animal to perhaps live or some other very important reason. I would never complain about that. If however it was not a service animal, and was merely a pet, it ruins virtually the entire trip as there's few ways to get rid of hives. While one can get a steroid shot, if I continue to be exposed, it's tough to get rid of. Embarrased to go out, can't stand the 24/7 itching, super uncomfortable. For those people, I don't have nice things to say so I won't.

There needs to be a good way to ban pets. (Clarifying to mean where they are not permitted).


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## heathpack (Mar 18, 2021)

DisneyJen said:


> I agree Fi2. As others have posted, pets are happier in their home while their owners are away.



While I agree that pets should not be taken to timeshares or other accommodations that do not allow them, it’s by no means universally true that pets are happier at home while their owners are away.

Our dogs are part of our family.  They travel very well.  They absolutely are happier traveling with us than they are being left behind.  We are absolutely happier having them with us than we are leaving them behind.  Which is not to say that we don’t leave them behind.

Theres several repeat refrains on TUG that are completely untrue:
1.  Dogs that travel are annoying.  Nope, mine are not allowed to misbehave in public (or in private!).  They are seasoned travellers.  Love their crates.
2.  People who travel with dogs are too cheap to board them or arrange for a pet sitter.  Nope, I’m a veterinarian and can leave them at my clinic for very low cost.  Yet I’d still rather travel with them if possible.
3.  People who travel with dogs have a pathological attachment to their pets.  Nope, some of us just have dogs that are a real pleasure to be around.

Again, I’m totally on board with the concept that we all should follow the rules.  If the TS does not allow pets, then pets shouldn’t be there.  All of the other justifications for pets not being at the timeshare (like “the dog would be happier at home”) are simply unnecessary.


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## vail (Mar 18, 2021)

I was looking to go to Four Seasons Aviara.
Funny thing....dogs are allowed.


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## heathpack (Mar 18, 2021)

vail said:


> I was looking to go to Four Seasons Aviara.
> Funny thing....dogs are allowed.



only for Four Seasons owners


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## NboroGirl (Mar 18, 2021)

I was surprised at the dogs I saw during my recent 2 weeks at Grande Vista.  One was a little white dog that liked looking out the window of the 1st floor balcony in building 79.  I also saw someone walking it a couple of times. It never had a vest or any other indicator showing it to be a service dog. My son also saw a larger dog coming out of one of the rooms in our building a few times.  Before then, I never saw an animal there.


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## hcarman (Mar 19, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> That happens all the time at neighborhood pools.  It's expected and just part of having a pool that includes babies and kids.  Sure it is an inconvenience, but the poop doesn't stay for entire week like dogs/cats or whatever else is brought to the resort against the regulation.  Let's have some common sense.


It should not be expected - some parents choose to not use swim diapers even though most places require so they are being irresponsible. And they don’t always work but most of the time do.   I say it is more than an inconvenience when I got no pool time at one holiday weekend stay when it took more than 48 hours for health department to clear the pool (likely at a cost too).  So it didn’t just go away as you state.  Responsible owners of all animals dispose of animal waste.  Are there irresponsible ones - of course.  But the same applies for anything.


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## Dean (Mar 19, 2021)

heathpack said:


> While I agree that pets should not be taken to timeshares or other accommodations that do not allow them, it’s by no means universally true that pets are happier at home while their owners are away.
> 
> Our dogs are part of our family.  They travel very well.  They absolutely are happier traveling with us than they are being left behind.  We are absolutely happier having them with us than we are leaving them behind.  Which is not to say that we don’t leave them behind.
> 
> ...


I agree, it's a very simple equation on what owners should do, it's really a testament to their honesty and integrity.  Unless the rules change, no animals other than true qualified service animals should be allowed and that includes comfort animals no matter how strongly the owner feels they should be allowed to bring them.  There are a number of legitimate reasons to exclude them and no compelling reasons to allow them.  Extremely few timeshares or condo rentals allow them and those that do charge extra in one way or another.  If you stay at a hotel that allows them then you're paying extra for the animal either as an added fee or in higher charges.  Timeshare owners would have to pay the extra costs, which are significant, for them to be allowed.  While not everyone enjoys having kids at the resort either, they are an obligate part of a timeshare that is not adult only, so the comparisons between kids and animals have no real meaning.


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## David10225 (May 14, 2021)

Just another data point but at my current 3 night stay in Branson, saw two different dogs being walked. I'd they want to take a stand, 1000 buck charged to your CC if u get caught.


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