# Hawaii Collection 2019 MF and others news



## youppi (Oct 18, 2018)




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## wilma (Oct 18, 2018)

youppi said:


>


How many points are needed for an oceanfront unit at point at Poipu.


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## youppi (Oct 18, 2018)

wilma said:


> How many points are needed for an oceanfront unit at point at Poipu.


Most weeks are at 15,500 pts but most people will use the 1 step upgrade benefit and will book the Ocean view at 11,500 and will upgrade to the Ocean Front for a fees ($7, $10 or $18 per night depending on how many points you own)


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## amycurl (Oct 18, 2018)

I still can't believe that they can get away with calling it a "Hawaii collection" when there are only two resorts in the entire state. *smdh*


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## bizaro86 (Oct 19, 2018)

amycurl said:


> I still can't believe that they can get away with calling it a "Hawaii collection" when there are only two resorts in the entire state. *smdh*



True. Moving in the right direction though, as they added ~800 weeks in Hawaii, and none anywhere else. In fact, they sold some in Palm Canyon (transferred to another club maybe?) Which is pretty good, plus they held fees the same. 

I'm no fan of diamond and don't own them, but that seems like a pretty good report to me.


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## artringwald (Oct 19, 2018)

One of the deeded weeks I own at P@P is in the Club. Between HOA fees and Club dues, in 2018 I paid $2,111.59 for my 15,500 points. Why should 15,000 points in the Hawaii collection cost $2,902.42? Why should it cost that much more to manage the Collection?


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## youppi (Oct 19, 2018)

I forgot these info

Point at Poipu


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## nuwermj (Oct 19, 2018)

artringwald said:


> One of the deeded weeks I own at P@P is in the Club. Between HOA fees and Club dues, in 2018 I paid $2,111.59 for my 15,500 points. Why should 15,000 points in the Hawaii collection cost $2,902.42? Why should it cost that much more to manage the Collection?



Good point. Diamond's back office charges seem to be too high compared to what other systems can do if for. No competitive bidding, so Diamond is over charging. And Collection members are paying profit twice on each interval, first in the HOA bill, then a second 15% profit in the Collection bill. A pretty sweet deal for Diamond.


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## youppi (Oct 19, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> Good point. Diamond's back office charges seem to be too high compared to what other systems can do if for. No competitive bidding, so Diamond is over charging. And Collection members are paying profit twice on each interval, first in the HOA bill, then a second 15% profit in the Collection bill. A pretty sweet deal for Diamond.


Also, the Collection pay the same MF per units to the HOA for all garden view at 8,500 pts, partial ocean view at 10,000 pts, ocean view at 11,500 pts and ocean front at 15,500 pts.
This is why they stop giving 15,500 pts to deeded owners that bought after 200x and they assign their weeks to THE Club and replaced it by only 10,000 pts (info from @artringwald).


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## RLS50 (Oct 19, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> Good point. Diamond's back office charges seem to be too high compared to what other systems can do if for. No competitive bidding, so Diamond is over charging. And Collection members are paying profit twice on each interval, first in the HOA bill, then a second 15% profit in the Collection bill. A pretty sweet deal for Diamond.


Having been an owner with Diamond now for a few years, I think that their very high back office charges on each resort's HOA budget might be as serious a concern for me as their near industry high management fees.

When Diamond takes over a resort they significantly reduce the headcount of the legacy resorts back office and Admin personnel.  They then seem to consolidate that function into their main owner services call centers like in Florida and Nevada.  Typically when large companies eliminate redundancy and consolidate overhead services like this from multiple locations into one or two large centralized locations a very significant cost savings is realized (unfortunately this often also comes at the expense of quality).   However if you look at most of the individual HOA budgets their legacy Admin line item never actually disappears entirely and on top of that the HOA now gets saddled with a huge added cost that Diamond labels Indirect Corporate Costs or something like that (I have seen different descriptions at different resorts).

In my opinion the amount of these back office and Admin charges that Diamond members are getting hit with suggests at least one of two things.  (1) A significant level of inefficiency and dysfunction in internal back office processes leading to wasted time and effort and higher cost or (2)  this area of the budget is possibly being used as an additional profit center to in effect charge members higher costs for back office services that should in reality be much cheaper to procure if it was open to competitive bidding.


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## youppi (Oct 19, 2018)

Others info: 64% of calls/emails are for reservations and over 30% of reservations are made by phone call (it's increased over the last year).


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## amycurl (Oct 19, 2018)

The long-term option for the shoreline is.....that shoreline isn't going to be there and no amount of anything manmade is going to keep it there long-term. That resort is just going to keep throwing money at it, and expecting a different result. Because science is going to science, no matter how much we might not like it.


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## youppi (Oct 20, 2018)

artringwald said:


> One of the deeded weeks I own at P@P is in the Club. Between HOA fees and Club dues, in 2018 I paid $2,111.59 for my 15,500 points. Why should 15,000 points in the Hawaii collection cost $2,902.42? Why should it cost that much more to manage the Collection?



The club fee at $445.14 ($2,111.59 - $1,666.45) is not cheap.

I calculated the number of each type of unit, 217x 2bdrm + 2x 3bdrm = 219. One of the 3 bdrm is used for sale, so 218 but Diamond said 216. So, there is 2x 2bdrm used for sales too. Do, you know which one ?

If I keep the 217x 2bdrm then the average cost in points per 2 bdrm is 11,500 pts
So, each time Diamond add a unit that worth less than 11,500 pts to the trust then the MF of the trust per points increase. This, plus the 15% management fees charged, explain why 15,000 pts cost $2,902.42.




If weeks owners would pay MF based on the value of the point assigned to the view/season owned in place of the same cost whatever the view/season then it would be like this 




So, in place of paying $1,666.45+$445.14=$2,111.59 for your 15,500 pts, you would pay $2,243.37+$445.14=$2,688.51 and the Hawaii Collection members of 15,000 pts would pay less than the $2,902.42 because there is way more Garden view units in the trust than Ocean Front units (the bias would be in the advantage of trust members in place of their disadvantage like now because the trust doesn't own 100% of the inventory and the trust owns more units that worth less points than the average points). 

The non Hawaii resorts in the trust help to reduce the cost per points but not like they should because the best weeks are not there. The units from those resorts are unsold inventory (low season=lower points=higher cost per points) . The other Hawaii resort, KBC increases the MF in the trust because the MF per points is higher at KBC than at Point at Poipu. Each 3 bdrm at P@P and KBC penthouse unit in the trust contributes to reduce the MF per point because those units have an higher pts/$ ratio. 

The 15% management fees hurt but is not the biggest contributor IMHO. The distribution of unit type/season units in the trust and the difference in number of point assigned for each type/season units added to the fact that deeded weeks owners pay the same MF whatever the season/view are the biggest contributor of the gap between both type of owners/members.

More a trust points system is unbalance (poison by low season weeks and low pts/$ ratio units) more it would looked like bad (expensive) compared to weeks system or units with an high pts/$ ratio in an hybrid system.

@nuwermj


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