# Have you or anyone close to you ever gone to rehab for alcohol addiction?



## rickandcindy23 (Nov 4, 2016)

I wonder what the success rate of these programs is.  Our son is really struggling with alcoholism.  AA doesn't work.  The places we have researched claim to be very successful.  At $25K per month, they should be.  

I am looking for encouragement, I guess.  If you don't have any experience, would you please pray for our son?  He has pretty much lost his wife, and he has a two-year-old daughter.  

He is a civil engineer, graduated from School of Mines in Golden.  He also has a master's degree in project management, but he cannot hold down a job right now.  He just started a new job last Friday, and he went three days, and called in sick three days.  Very sad.  He is with us for the last few nights.  He is sober right now, of course.  It's very sobering to have your wife kick you out of your home.  

Again, send your prayers his way, please.  I would be so grateful.


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## VacationForever (Nov 4, 2016)

Sorry to read this.  No personal experience with alcoholism or someone close with it.  Is it something his medical doctor or medical health insurance system can work through with him?  I am aware for drug addicts, there are meds they can take (not necessary better for them as they can end up with a different kind of drug addiction).


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## happymum (Nov 4, 2016)

No experience, but sending support for you - and him. It must be so hard to watch someone you love struggle with this.


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## rapmarks (Nov 4, 2016)

Our son in law went in for two weeks, he was supposed to stat for three.  My daughter, their three children, and his parents came to Florida two weeks to visit us.  He would call and say he was praying and working hard.  When she got home, my daughter found a garbage can full of empties.   This was two years ago.  She kept giving him another chance and finally filed for divorce, which he is fighting and also asking for custody.  He gives no child support and has not seen his children for 16 months, and hasn't tried.   Our son has to really want to change and it is a lifelong struggle but many have successfully done it.


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## VacationForever (Nov 4, 2016)

My late aunt-in-law (ex-husband's aunt) was an alcoholic, a result of being a socialite / wife of a CEO in a Fortune company.  Drank too much in social events, husband died of heart attack in his 50s and she continued to drink.  Ended up with liver and stomach problems.  Had several surgeries to treat her liver and half her stomach removed. I knew her for many years before she died, she used to always have a glass of red wine in her hand throughout the day, until she had her surgeries.   She finally died on dialysis table in the aftermath of Hurricane Charley.  It took all the surgeries to shock her into stopping her alcohol.  

Maybe education as to what happens to the liver etc can shock him into stopping drinking?


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## margieann (Nov 4, 2016)

Someone very close to me has been struggling for years and failing.  But as rapmarks has stated many have succeeded.  I have no answers.  But you might find some on this site:  http://www.GettingThemSober.com.


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## Pat H (Nov 4, 2016)

My ex who was still my husband at the time went to rehab in 1989. He has not had a drink since. However, he is not sober but a dry drunk. That means even though he doesn't drink anymore he still exhibits all the behavior of an alcoholic. They told us at rehab that only 20% make it the first time. I'd like to suggest that you and your hubby attend Al-Anon which is to help you not the alcoholic. Having a spouse who is an alcoholic is bad enough but when it's your child, it's just heart wrenching.


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## spirits (Nov 4, 2016)

*I second the Alanon suggestion*

In order to keep the anonymity of the alcoholic in my life, I would like to say that going to Alanon really saved my own life and the life of the alcoholic.

I always thought that I was solid...the person others came to for help and advice.  I am a teacher and I look after others.  Then when I had to live with lies, manipulation and a total destruction of my hopes and dreams.....well.... i was prepared to wash my hands of all the misery and just let the alcoholic fend for themselves.

A wise friend suggested I go to Alanon....and I did....and I left.  But things got worse so I went back and started to listen.  The beauty of the meetings is...no one tells you what to do...they just share their stories.  And for me....I saw something in their stories that I could build my life on.  Slowly, things started to make sense.  I heard....I didn't cause it, I couldn't cure it and I couldn't control it.  I heard to keep my side of the sidewalk clean and let them keep their side clean.  I learned that if I wanted what they had....serenity....all I had to do was to keep coming back.

I found hope, understanding and support.  

In the meetings I heard stories of children who grew up in alcoholic homes, others married alcoholics or had children who were alcoholics.  I learned that there was plenty of misery to go around but also so much hope.

I go to open AA meetings and listen to stories of great people who were trapped in the disease and found redemption.  I never thought I would say this but I am so grateful for the alcoholic in my life.  They brought me to a new way of living....discovering a new spiritual way of living (alanon and aa are not religious but rather spiritual programs.)

Meetings in my city are every day.....all different times....meeting lists are online.....the only requirement is to have a friend or relative who suffers from the disease.   

I have been going for around 5 years now....after 1 year I could actually say that I had serenity in my life. And yes, the alcoholic was still drinking.  But my attitude had changed.  No longer was I angry and bitter and lonely.  I could detach from the alcoholic with love and hold out hope that help was there for them.....IF THEY WANTED IT.   

And I think that is the crux of the problem.  No matter how much we love them...love is not enough.....they are the only ones who can seek help.

I started going to alanon so that I would not do anything to hurt the alcoholic in my life.  Instead, I found a way to help me help myself....and by doing so help the alcoholic.

I urge anyone to go to a meeting.....each meeting is a bit different depending on those there....if you don't like one...try another.  But keep on trying......it is so worth it.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 4, 2016)

This is not something YOU can control.

Your idea of "help" most likely is something called "enabling".

Please understand ... there is no easy, fast, simple fix. And the outcome may not be what you want, easily or ever achieved, and setbacks are commonplace.  Detachment is not 'unloving' ... it is not enabling ... it is saving yourself.


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## Cropman (Nov 4, 2016)

This one is hard, but if I can help one person it is worth it. I went to rehab.  I was a full blown alcoholic. I had to drink to function. If i didn't drink i would get violently ill.  I had and luckily still have a typical Midwest, middle class family.  Own my own business. I'm one of the ones who have made it so far.  I say so far because any day I could go back to drinking. I went to rehab for two weeks. In one of the classes they said the odds were only 20% make it. Ill never forget it.  They were pretty close with what they said. There were 17 of us. To my knowledge only four of us are still not drinking. Some dropped out of sight after they started drinking again, some are barely living an existence, and unfortunately, some have passed.

I know this response is starting to get long, so ill try to wrap it up.  There are two main things I would like to stress.  One, if the alcoholic hasn't hit bottom, they won't quit. And even if they have hit bottom, if they truly don't want to change, they won't quit. They may quit short term, but long term they won't. Second, there has to be some support system.  AA or even NA works for a lot of people.  I couldn't stand my AA meetings so i went to NA.  That helped in the short term. Long term, my friends and family were my support group. I could always call people I met in rehab, a couple of good friends, and most importantly, my wife.  And I used them.

Now, I think I'm in a pretty good place.  Every once in a while I would like to have a drink to relax, blend in, or just have a beverage that tastes different. But I don't. My wife jokes she has her own DD (designated driver).  Feels good to have your family be proud of you for not drinking. 

I wish you nothing but the best and if there is any way I can be of help, please PM me.  I know the hell I put the people that care about me through.  I'm not proud of that.  But I am proud that next year will be my 10th anniversary of being free of alcohol.  And I can honestly say I don't miss it.  And I still have a ton of fun in drinking atmospheres.  Love being in Key West and that is not exactly a dry town!

Don't give up and hopefully he never quits quitting!  (Sorry again for being so long)


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 4, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our son is really struggling with alcoholism.  AA doesn't work.




Hi RickandCindy23,

I have to disagree with your statement that AA doesn't work.  It has worked for many thousands of alcoholics throughout the world.

Nothing will work for your son unless he wants to help himself. That's key. I know several co-workers and friends who have become sober through AA. Many did with the help of a sponsor and attending meetings on a regular basis.

I also agree with several posters who have recommended you attend Al Anon. As mentioned, it can be very beneficial and for some life-changing.

Best wishes as you struggle with the horrible consequences of alcoholism.


Richard


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## klpca (Nov 4, 2016)

Well this is heartbreaking Cindy.  We have probably more than our fair share of alcoholics in our family (in my mind there's a strong generic component). Most seem to "manage" but a few have quit drinking.  Two have done the cold turkey route with no counseling but one finally got sober through AA and some group therapy. AA works great if the alcoholic wants to be successful.  If they are not motivated it won't work.  My family member who went through AA told me that the alcoholic had to hit rock bottom before they will want to change. Is your son at rock bottom? He's the only one who can fix this. The way that our society glorifies alcohol makes it so difficult for recovering alcoholics. You will be in my prayers.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 5, 2016)

I am an engineer, and have a deep respect for anyone who has graduated the school of mines. The best engineers I know went there, its impressive. 

I say all this only to encourage you, as getting that degree means your son has perseverance in him. Hopefully he can use that same strength to change.

My own children are more of the drink from a sippy cup age, and I can't imagine the pain you are in from this. BOth you and your son will be in my prayers.

One final thought. Would a dry camp environment help him initially? A school if mines engineer could probably get a fly in fly out job at a mine or drilling rig that would entail living in a strictly enforced dry camp for a few weeks. Or even a camp job in the middle east. 4 months away in an alcohol free environment might not be a bad thing...


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## artringwald (Nov 5, 2016)

I have a friend and a relative that have been sober for 25+ years now, but there was much sadness in their lives before they made up their minds to stop drinking. Both got divorced, both came close to losing their jobs. In one case the employer told him to go to rehab or get fired. What turned things around for them? Getting a good sponsor in AA. They both go to multiple meetings/week. They couldn't have done it without the support group.


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## Big Matt (Nov 5, 2016)

Make sure there's not more to it than just alcohol.  It is fairly easy to admit to alcohol abuse to friends and family.  Not so much if other substances.  Missing three days of work in a row due to being hung over or drunk isn't good.  I've had folks close to me who called in sick for days.  It was something else (cocaine).  One committed suicide when he hit bottom.  Nobody ever saw it coming.  We tried intervention, but it was too late.  You may want to do something similar.  

Also, most insurance covers some sort of rehab.

My heart goes out to you.


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## falmouth3 (Nov 5, 2016)

I have no guidance or suggestions for you, Cindy, but I wish you and your family all the best.


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## ladixson (Nov 5, 2016)

Hi Cindy,

All of my prayers are with you and your family.  That being said, I have to echo the comments of nothing helping your alcoholic until he is ready to quit  I am an alcoholic and thru the grace of God, I just picked up my 4 year sobriety chip on Thursday night at an AA meeting and spent yesterday celebrating my sobriety at the treatment facility I went to for the first 30 days of my sobriety.  The treatment program I went to used the 12 steps of AA as a foundation and encouraged AA after treatment, but they also taught me that this is MY program.  I am a member of AA and when I speak, it is usually about what a bad member I am... Not because I drink, but because I take the parts of that program that really work for me and use them along with other things that help keep me sober.  I also echo the the comments suggesting that you and your family getting involved in Alanon.  Alcoholism is a disease that affects more than just the alcoholic.  I am thankful everyday for my family and friends that remained by side or came back into my life in my sobriety because I damn sure didn't deserve any of them!

On a side note, most insurance will cover treatment and FMLA and short term disability can be used during that time.  In my case, I used FMLA and STD and my work has never questioned any of it.  My insurance, on the other hand, thought I'd benefit from outpatient treatment and refused to pay the bill.  I had to make the decision about 5 days into treatment on whether I would stay and find a way to pay the bill or attempt outpatient.  I KNEW outpatient wouldn't work for me and I made the decision to stay and pay myself.  Honestly, it was the best $14,000 I have ever spent!  My life is now priceless.  

Sorry for the long post.  There is an easier and softer way, but not until your alcoholic has no choice but to accept it.  If you'd like to chat more, just PM me.


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## Kal (Nov 5, 2016)

I have a very close friend whose brother had a serious alcohol problem.  She paid $20K per week for 4 weeks at a rehab facility.  He continued thru AA with a good sponsor.  Things were looking good until one day.  He was sitting on the sofa as his wife arrived home.  The two of them sat side-by-side.  He then pulled a gun out from under the sofa and shot himself in the head.

 The message in this situation is things can get very bad beyond being unemployed.


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## Tank (Nov 5, 2016)

Fist hats off to you Cropman, you are spot on and talking from experiance that is still hard to admit. Congrats on overcoming the Beast, and continuing keeping that distance from it!

 Many more great comments here.

ladixson, congrats on your 4 years also, uplifting to here positive outcomes.  IT IS POSSIBLE !!

My mom and dad owned a bar for 51 years, i've seen so many lives ruined from alcohol, my mom and dads relationship included. 

AA and all others work , your son has to be the one to "WANT" this, till than you are helpless. He has to hit rock bottom, All the money and resources in the world are useless if he is not ready to help himself. Don't enable him.

 What you are seeing is every parents worse nightmare. Big Matt hit what I was thinking. You need to know what you are really dealing with here possibly, many are way worse than alcohol, a young kid should be able to function somewhat on alcohol alone.

God bless your family, prayers are coming your way

Dave


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## Timeshare Von (Nov 5, 2016)

Cindy you and your son are in my thoughts and prayers.

I have had several people near and dear to me battle addictions.  Be it alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc . . . the traits are often very similar.

I don't know of anyone who has battled alcoholism without AA in their life.  I have friends today with 20+ years of sobriety who still do meetings at least weekly.

For me, it was important to understand the role I play (or should play) as a family member or friend.  Someone mentioned co-dependency.  If you're unfamiliar with the term and the role "we" play . . . I highly recommend the books of Melody Beattie on the subject.  You can find her books on Amazon.com.  "Codependent No More" was particularly helpful to me.

Best wishes to your family as you work to be supportive of your son.


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## easyrider (Nov 5, 2016)

My experience is that AA works. I have many friends and relatives that are dealing with alcoholism / drug addiction or an alcoholic / drug addict in their lives. AA is very helpful to those that accept this help. 

Al alon is very helpful to those living or dealing with an alcoholic. 

Those addicted people all seem to all have one thing in common and that is denial of their problem. They all feel they are in control. Unfortunately for many addicts, it seems no amount of money or treatment seems to work at this stage. Nothing anyone can say will make them stop. The decision to stop drinking is an individual decision made by the alcoholic and nothing positive happens, like recovery, until they make this decision. 

Basically, all a person that wants to help can do is be supportive. Attending al anon meetings to get an idea of what you are dealing with would be a good first step. 

Yes, rehab works when the client is motivated to quit but not until. Many people without the proper motivation seem to relapses. Often times the motivation starts with jail and a forced detox. 

Addiction is a tough thing to deal with and results are iffy. 

Good Luck

Bill


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 5, 2016)

I know AA works, when the person wants it to.  Jeremy was going 2-3 nights per week.  He was trying to find a meeting to fit, and the only one he really liked was 85 miles from home, which our daughter found and went with him.  

AA worked for a dear friend, Tom, who quit drinking 30 years ago.  Tom even goes to meetings on Maui, when he and his wife vacation there several weeks per year.  Tom has offered to sponsor our son, but our son never called him, probably because this is a dear friend of Rick's.  Maybe he needs someone more his peer, or maybe he felt funny about Tom knowing his truth.  I don't know.  

We are going for a screening today at a rehab in Denver.  It's going to be $25K per month, and they are recommending up to 90 days.  Our son has hit rock bottom, and maybe that is a good thing for him.  I doubt he will keep his brand new job.  He would love to go back, it's in the field he loves, fire suppression, and the pay was incredible.  He went to work for three days but drank over last weekend, and we knew he smelled of alcohol, but of course no one confronted him because we were celebrating, and not one of the kids and spouses, nor the two us would ruin the day.  

His heavy drinking has been off and on during his working life.  He didn't drink much in college, he stayed at our house because Golden is a short drive from here.  He graduated at the top of his class.  I am not sure when he started drinking so heavily, but our other son says it was pretty much right after college.  We would have no idea.  He bought a house (still lives there today with his wife and child), so we weren't around him much, but the boys partied together.  

Rick and I don't drink, except when we go to Hawaii, and only since about 2006.  Before that, we stayed away from it entirely.  It's funny that people want to get you to drink, and when you say no, they think you are judging them. It's odd.  We stopped going to parties many years ago, for that reason.  People just stopped inviting us.  

Drinking is such a huge part of our culture, as someone else said.  You cannot watch television without seeing people drinking or going to a bar.   

We chose not to drink, even though there was so much pressure. All of our parents all drank heavily, and as kids of 18, when we married, we vowed not to drink.  One of my earliest memories is of my dad sitting in the doorway to our room late at night, which was right next to the bathroom, and he was singing, "How dry I am."  It affects you.  How could it not?  But Dad's drink of choice was beer, and he just drank every night, probably 3-4 beers, and he could always get out of bed the next day.  Still an alcoholic.  He also smoked and died at 62.  

Ironically, our son can go weeks without drinking and then he will binge for days, and then go weeks again, but the time between was becoming less and less since losing his job this past May.  He loved that job, and he hoped to retire from it.  Losing it put him into a funk.  I hadn't even considered that his drinking could be from depression, but one of the rehab facilities made that comment, that depression and anxiety could be the underlying cause.  

Rehab is only 20%?  That is a scary number.  

I am so thankful to the honest people who have shared their stories.  I love knowing there is hope.  Your stories are such a blessing, and sharing them as you have is so kind and generous.  It helps me, certainly.  

Please pray for our son in these trying times.  I told him if this is the worst his life gets, he is blessed, because there is hope that he will come through the other side with a renewed energy and a chance to maybe court his wife again and see if he can get her back.  His wife makes an okay living, but they need his income too.  We babysit our granddaughter three days a week to save them from paying daycare (and we love it).  She is two and is the joy in his life that could very well pull him through the bad times.  Even if his wife does file for divorce, at least he has that little girl.  

Long post, sorry.


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## am1 (Nov 5, 2016)

I wish your son all the best in this difficult time.  

How can rehab be so expensive?  Is that what true coat or what the market will bear or a way for only people seriously committed to quitting to enter?


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 5, 2016)

I think it's expensive because of staffing and they have a chef that prepares the meals.  It's really crazy high.  I wonder if it's deductible.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 5, 2016)

I think the job loss thing could very much be an issue. As I mentioned, I'm also an engineer, and am probably about the same age as your son. (We have a 1 year old and an almost 3 year old). I was laid off in april, and found it surprisingly hard to deal with. My former employer paid for career counseling, which I used. I found it helpful to have someone I didn't really know to talk things through with. 

If you're used to having a job people find impressive, its hard to go to getting pitied when you meet new people. That is also the first thing everyone asks, which gets really old.


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## BellaWyn (Nov 5, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I think it's expensive because of staffing and they have a chef that prepares the meals.  It's really crazy high.  I wonder if it's deductible.



Exactly right. It's 24-hour care that includes on-site group therapy, individual therapy and medical people on staff to monitor withdrawal processes, all in an environment intended to shield the patients while they work the programs.  Quality therapy can be pricey.  It would be considered medically necessary so highly likely the expense could be a tax deductible item.

The 20% comes into play post-rehab because, while in rehap, patients live in a bubble, away from the pressures of normal day-to-day living.  Can speak from experience that leaving that bubble and re-inserting yourself back into the "real world" it is a bit of a terrifying shock to the whole-body system.  This is where a good support system, regular meetings and followup, and a desire to change make a huge difference. 

Cindy, from your description, your son sounds extremely high functioning mentally.  The process of "self medication" may be motivated by other underlying issues that have gone undiagnosed. Especially since he can go for long periods without drinking and then something "triggers" a binge.  Good therapy will help him suss out what those triggers are for him to learn how to manage.

Completely concur with other posters related to Alanon for you and other family. It is a good place for you to find support for yourself so you can be there to better understand his process. 

Will keep you all in our prayers. Recovery is a choice that has to be made daily.  Am truly humbled to read how many generous TUG members have been willing to share their stories in this thread.


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## Passepartout (Nov 5, 2016)

[Humor] considering it in 72 hours or so.


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## MuranoJo (Nov 6, 2016)

Cindy, I don't have much to offer, except I wish you and yours the best.
And I'm thankful for those who posted their first-hand experiences to help.


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## silentg (Nov 6, 2016)

*Not an alcoholic*

Hi, I'm not sure if this will be helpful, but my own experience was a dependence on prescription medicine. i had to be hospitalized for this and go to a psychiatrist and a therapist for treatment. The hardest part was admitting I had a problem and had been battling depression for many years. I have been doing well, and still see my therapist and work on this battle, because I know I'm not cured but am coping.
I hope your son gets to the point of admitting he has a problem with alcohol. It's a disease like any other. You need to get treatment and stay sober. It's hard to watch a person struggle but when he gets help, it will make a difference in all aspects of his life.
Silentg


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## rapmarks (Nov 6, 2016)

Cindy, you are so correct about pressure to drink from society.  My husband has meneires and found drinking prompted episodes.  He stopped drinking.  Very surprised at how it offended people and the slow pull away from many people socially.  



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## paluamalia (Nov 6, 2016)

Dear Rick and Cindy
We met briefly during the January get together at Golden Corral.  I am so sorry for the pain you are experiencing.
I am an alcoholic and I've been sober for 38 years.  I have no advice for you, but I can tell you that in my experience things had to get a lot worse before they got better.

AA cannot help your son stop drinking, he must make that decision himself in the light of his own experience.  Once he does that, perhaps with the help of the medical profession, (this is a disease), then AA can help him "stay stopped".

An Alcoholic affects the lives and health of an average of 12 people, and those people are often so badly affected they need help too, they have been hurt by the disease of alcoholism, differently than the alcoholic, but the damage is real.  Again, when during my own sobriety I was affected by some one else's disease I sought help and received it in the Family Groups of Al Anon, and the help of a healthcare professional.

There is hope.  And there is help out there for you and your family.  And much of it is free.  

Marie S.



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## rapmarks (Nov 6, 2016)

Thank you so much for your post Marie, about the effect on others.   My daughter and three grandsons are living with this.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 6, 2016)

I have read and re-read every post, and all of them give me comfort and hope.  

Our son is now at the rehab, 24 hours into it, and I hope he is doing okay.  He really didn't like saying goodbye to his little girl, Raelynn, who is 2.  I could tell it was the most difficult thing for him to do.  

His wife was there, but she was clear with him that she will only support him through this, as she is done with the marriage.  He has hope he can change that.  I doubt it.  He has lied to her about drinking and hid alcohol all over their house.  

Their house is a mess right now because our son hasn't been helping her much, and she needs more than a drunken couch potato on her side.  I wonder if that is a symptom of a drunk--pure laziness.  He would go to work and then come home and do nothing to help.  No cooking, no laundry, no housework.  

We offered to help get the house cleaned up, but our daughter-in-law doesn't seem to want it right now.  Maybe she will change her mind over the next few weeks.  Our son won't be able to go back to the house, but we can help her get things right there.  I love our daughter-in-law.  She is a gem and has a ton of energy, but she cannot do everything herself.


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## BellaWyn (Nov 6, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have read and re-read every post, and all of them give me comfort and hope.
> 
> Our son is now at the rehab, 24 hours into it, and I hope he is doing okay.  He really didn't like saying goodbye to his little girl, Raelynn, who is 2.  I could tell it was the most difficult thing for him to do.
> 
> ...



The good news is that he is going into rehab voluntarily. But he still needs to do the work and it's super hard work.  Alcohol depresses the nervous system so, even in small doses, it still acts like a drug in his system that slows everything down to a slow crawl at some point.  So, maybe not lazy as much as drugged into a mental stupor? 

It's so great you are wanting to help the DIL also because she needs the support. But she has her process and the whole situation is a really tough head game for her.  She has got to feel in total overwhelm and that life is literally falling apart.  Give her time, don't helicopter, just be there when she needs it.  Work on your own stuff.  The more you learn about the disease and how it effects his entire circle of influence the more prepared you will be to help others.  

But do YOU first.


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## VacationForever (Nov 6, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Their house is a mess right now because our son hasn't been helping her much, and she needs more than a drunken couch potato on her side.  I wonder if that is a symptom of a drunk--pure laziness.  He would go to work and then come home and do nothing to help.  No cooking, no laundry, no housework.
> 
> We offered to help get the house cleaned up, but our daughter-in-law doesn't seem to want it right now.  Maybe she will change her mind over the next few weeks.  Our son won't be able to go back to the house, but we can help her get things right there.  I love our daughter-in-law.  She is a gem and has a ton of energy, but she cannot do everything herself.



Not sure if your offer to help includes hiring a housecleaning service or an organizer?  She may be more receptive to that as she may not want "family" to get into her space?  I am that way, I don't want friends and extended family to get into my space.


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## LilyPond (Nov 6, 2016)

I am sorry you have a loved one with alcohol addiction issues.  I used to be married to an alcoholic and he had no desire to change, his connection with alcohol was stronger.  For those who do wish to change, here are some alternatives that might be helpful and will at least give you more information:

http://bottomlineinc.com/yes-natural-medicine-can-help-alcoholics/ 
*You might have to refresh the page to get past the ad.

http://upliftconnect.com/opposite-addiction-connection/

In the end, the choice is with the alcoholic, and ultimately I had to let go of trying to 'help' and leave the marriage I was in.  I wish you the absolute very best in all that you pursue, may your heart find peace.


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## ThreeLittleBirds (Nov 6, 2016)

I currently work at a residential rehab for Veterans. The minimum stay is 90 days. Ultimately, the vets are not locked in, but most take the rehab very seriously. Many are success stories. Not all, and the ones that aren't usually have other untreated or unresolved issues in life like severe depression, anxiety, PTSD, trauma.

Something to find out from the facility where he is. If he does relapse during his stay, are there opportunities to continue with restrictions/amends or does he have to find somewhere new? It would be great if he could go back if he does relapse. Also, look into the relapse prevention offerings. As someone else mentioned, in a controlled setting, maintaining sobriety is a lot easier.


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## ladixson (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm so thankful that your son made it to treatment!  If he wants to be sober, he will find the tools there to help him in his recovery.  Recovery is a daily commitment and sometimes a daily battle.  He needs to be prepared to understand that ultimately, this is a daily decision that only he can make.  Everyone can be there for him, but he has to want it more than anything else and be willing to do the work.

He has taken the first step and that is HUGE!


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## Cornell (Nov 7, 2016)

My ex-husband is an alcoholic.  I divorced him and got sole custody of my daughter after trying for years to "help" him (aka enabling).  Only the addict can help themselves.  Inexpensive therapy, AA, expensive therapy, etc. will ONLY work if the addict wants to quit.  There is a fine line between supporting the addict and becoming an enabler.  This line becomes even more complicated when there are children who are involved who need to be protected.  Be careful that you don't get sucked in.  That's what eventually got me out -- I realized I was going to go down w/the ship if I didn't remove myself from the dynamic.  FYI:  My ex is now sober but a classic "dry drunk".


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 7, 2016)

Our son kept accusing us of not being supportive.  We told him we cannot be supportive of drinking, but we can get him the help he needs, if he is willing to take it.   

It took him months to get to this point of accepting his addiction as an addiction.  Only two weeks ago, he was telling us he didn't know why everyone else can drink, but he cannot.


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## travs2 (Nov 7, 2016)

Praying for you and your son in his recovery!


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 18, 2016)

Thankful for all of you on TUG.  We were able to see our son last Saturday and will go again this Saturday.  The rehab has been good because he gets daily meetings with his own therapist, one-on-one, and he also goes to group therapy, and there are a lot of physical activities he does each day as well.  The schedule is tight, which keeps his mind off of the alcohol, I think.  He was becoming a lump on the couch for a long time.  He will probably need two months of living in rehab, then another month of outpatient rehab after that.  It's expensive, but it's worth it, if it gets him back to his real self. 

Alcohol is such a huge part of our culture.  I cannot believe every show and most commercials, someone is drinking.  

We are attending an Al-anon meeting near our house.  The people there are so kind, and we have yet to share our struggles.  Our daughter-in-law is thinking of going with us on Tuesday, and I would love for her to go.  She loved seeing our son on Saturday and kissed him and told him she misses him as the sober man she married, and she was so happy to look into his bright blue eyes and see something there she rarely saw over the last few months.  

Please continue to pray for him.  He is going to miss the holidays, all of them, and he will also be in rehab for his birthday, which is soon, December 5th.  I would love for him to come home for Christmas, but we cannot rush things.   He has to be ready, or this will have been for naught.


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## FLDVCFamily (Nov 18, 2016)

A friend's daughter went through rehab a year ago for narcotics. She's like a different person now. I know it's only been a year, but I believe it worked. She goes to meetings still and she has I think 2 good friends who are years into sobriety. From what I can see, they are essential for her as support. Yes, I think rehab can work, but the addict has to be ready for it. This was her 2nd go at it btw.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 20, 2016)

Part of his rehabilitation has been attending AA meetings all over the city every night.  He says those help a great deal, which is very different from what he said a few weeks ago.  He did find a sponsor, a person he knew a little from his job with the city.  The two can relate both personally and professionally, which is good for him. 

When we saw him yesterday, he was talking about leaving at 30 days.  I am unsure if that is going to be enough.  His insurance (Kaiser) has an intense outpatient program, 3 days a week, 3 hour sessions, and he wants to switch over to that for another month.  I just don't know.  We are wondering if he is buffaloing us, so he can just get out and go back to where he was.  He has been sober for weeks at a time before.  I asked him what the difference is now from then, and he said, "I have heard a lot of stories, and I don't want to go down that road."  He said some of the stories were "terrifying," people waking up in strange places, not knowing how they got there or how long they were sleeping.  Because of those stories he is hearing, I am afraid he thinks he is not that bad. 

I was thinking of getting him the Elizabeth Vargas book about her struggles.  I am going to order it today and have it sent to the rehab facility.   His therapist has to approve of everything he reads.


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## taffy19 (Nov 20, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Thankful for all of you on TUG.  We were able to see our son last Saturday and will go again this Saturday.  The rehab has been good because he gets daily meetings with his own therapist, one-on-one, and he also goes to group therapy, and there are a lot of physical activities he does each day as well.  The schedule is tight, which keeps his mind off of the alcohol, I think.  He was becoming a lump on the couch for a long time.  He will probably need two months of living in rehab, then another month of outpatient rehab after that.  It's expensive, but it's worth it, if it gets him back to his real self.
> 
> Alcohol is such a huge part of our culture.  I cannot believe every show and most commercials, someone is drinking.
> 
> ...


Cindy, I often think of you since we have met several times over the years.  I wish your son the best and that he can succeed and that his wife will take him back.  There is hope from your remarks.

You have so much support here and this shows what a great forum this is.


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## shagnut (Nov 21, 2016)

C;indy, so sorry your son is going thru this ( and you & Rick )  I think you've been given good advise so I'm sending prayers and positive thoughts.  Shaggy


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## bogey21 (Nov 21, 2016)

BellaWyn said:


> Work on your own stuff. The more you learn about the disease and how it effects his entire circle of influence the more prepared you will be to help others.



I know nothing about alcoholism.  What I do know is that when I have been most successful it has been when I totally immersed myself in the issue to the point I felt I knew as much, if not more, about the issue as the professionals.  I am talking about hours and hours researching, talking to professionals, reading books, etc.  

George


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## Kat05 (Nov 22, 2016)

Hi Cindy - I am so sorry to hear your family is going through this and I want to reach out and give you a ray of hope. I have a brother that struggled for a number of years, lost his wife, children, home and business and still could not quit drinking. He went to rehab 3 different times and attended AA for years with no longer term success.  We learned of a program in NH through a family friend who credits it with saving his life. It is a private program that is no where near the cost you are quoting. They do not accept insurance so no one there is court ordered, they want to all be there.  Thankfully my brother agreed to go and has now been sober for 6 years, our family friend sober for 7. The key he tells me is the person has to be ready. Please PM me if interested and I will share more info.  In the mean time for you Alanon is a great support system.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 20, 2016)

Our son has now been in rehab since 11/5.  We get to see him each Saturday, and our daughter-in-law is seeing him a few hours, several times per week.  Our granddaughter is so sweet, she is a little over two, and she thinks he is at camp.  That is what we tell her, when she asks for her daddy.  She has no idea what camp is, nor does she know what rehab is, but she knows he is gone.  

He will be discharged on 1/3 and will go to Intensive Outpatient Therapy three days a week for an additional month.  

We are cautious but hopeful.  He does get to spend Christmas Eve with our daughter-in-law's folks, then Christmas with us.  He will still stay the night in the rehab house.  This will be the first time he will see his brother and sister since going to rehab.  He is actually nervous.  He feels he has let people down.  I understand it, in a way, but he needs to get over it.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 20, 2016)

45 days and still working the program. Good for him ... but this is a very LONG ROAD ... and usually, not a straight path.

Enjoy your holiday ... act as you would for any family dinner and relax. Keep plans simple and expectations modest.


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## happymum (Dec 20, 2016)

Thanks for the update. There are many of us thinking of your son and wishing him success in his recovery. It took courage for you to share his story, and for others to contribute theirs.


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## rapmarks (Dec 20, 2016)

Very happy at this progress.  


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## cgeidl (Dec 21, 2016)

Our son was an alcoholic and took other drugs for about ten years and we could hardly ever even see him. He would not return calls or open his door when we knew he was home. 
He started in college where he had a full scholarship at Berkeley but drinking started and he just quit even though his grades were excellent. He worked as a waiter in a high end restaurant but as drinking got worse just quit. We encouraged him to got to rehab and while we were on vacation in Scotland he called and said he was ready and went in for a 30 day treatment. This was about 12 years ago and he has gone back and got a degree ,married, and has two little granddaughters. He still goes to AA meetings. We were never enablers but always willing supporters and gladly ran up our credit cards to pay for treatment. He is in the 20% where the treatment worked the first time. We are very proud of his accomplishment. At the time insurance would not pay for treatment.
Attending Al anon meetings might be helpful to you but all the advice about the alcoholic seeing that bottom has been hit and that recovery is desired seems the common thread to any successful chance of recovery.
We wish you will be able to write your own story of your son winning the difficult battle with alcohol in the near future.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 21, 2016)

Thank you for everything, TUG friends.  I know he was a little resentful when he first went into treatment, but mostly he was resentful that he was separated from alcohol.  He didn't go through physical withdrawal, per se, but he definitely wanted alcohol those first few weeks.  

Now he says he is glad he went, he knows he needed it.  I liked hearing him say it aloud.  He was in terrible shape for a while there.  

He may still have his job, too.  The boss has kept in touch with our daughter-in-law, and he seems to be sympathetic.  I would love for him to go back to work right away and only leave for his outpatient treatment.  It would be great for him to know he still has his job.


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## silentg (Dec 23, 2016)

Wishing all of you a joyful Christmas, everyone who has been in rehab feels the way your son does. Part of the healing process is the feeling of letting others down. Praise him for taking control of his situation and let him know you are all proud of him for taking this courageous step in his life. 
Silentg


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 26, 2016)

Lots of drama at Christmas dinner yesterday.  Our son teased our daughter, thinking she would laugh, but she took it wrong and snapped at him, so he sat without saying much the entire rest of the 4 hours we had him.  So much for our wonderful Christmas.  We don't usually have issues with the kids together.  I think our son is going to spend a separate holiday from the rest of us next year.  I see him staying home with his wife and daughter.  And to top it off, our daughter is not forgiving at all and really believes our son meant to criticize her.  So she is in a snit today.  It was a tease about Facebook posts, so not at all what I would consider out of line.  

So our overly-sensitive alcoholic son was trying to be himself, and he is put down by our overly-sensitive daughter.  I feel so frustrated, as Rick is on the phone literally for a total of 4 hours so far today, trying to mend fences between the two of them.  Ridiculous.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 26, 2016)

Please stop YOUR drama ... your son HAS, etc. to get thicker skin. 

Absolutely ... but that is a personal growth issue.  He is like a very young (but BIG KID) pre-teen whose emotional development stopped BEFORE he started drinking. He DRUGGED himself to not feel ... to stop the emotional pain. Now, he feels that he is being picked on ... looked down on ... an out caste in society/family ... and a thousand other insecurities and put downs. AND his feelings are WAY, WAY out of perspective to the level of comment or situation his sister engaged him in.

And the LAST THING, you can't tell him to GROW UP, get over it, just laugh it off, etc. He needs to explore these issues with his addiction specialist and sponsor. You can not reason with him ... these are RAW emotions & feelings for him ... he can't handle YET those without drinking, etc. 

Holidays are really bad emotionally for MANY of people ... but a widow after 40 years of a good marriage feels lost and pain ... but has the "good times" to think back on. Their sorry and loss happens but mostly is not crippling. Your son's has very limited emotional fortitude ... but is not a 8yo have a tantrum .. he is full grown man. 

And while a 4 hour family time/visit on Christmas seems too short (and you wanted MORE time with your son), you really need to allow or encourage him to leave when he has to. And maybe ... fewer family members for awhile ... those who also are going to Al-Anon meetings.

Also ... you are PLANNING way, way in advance. The line in AA is ... "One Step at a Time" or "One Day at a Time". Next Christmas .. you are "projecting" what will be best for your son. Failure is very high when projections lead to EXPECTATIONS that are not met. Your husband can not patch feelings with a few words or 'promises' or bartering. Rick has to LEARN what he wants as normal (like Ozzie and Harriet or Happy Days) might never be your family's normal ... "that normal" might not work.


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## VacationForever (Dec 26, 2016)

Sorry about this.  One would think that your daughter should be excited that your son is home for Christmas after his rehab stint.  We hope she wakes up one day and become a more understanding person. Same thing with your son, he needs to get over it.

Tell you a little story.  A very dear friend of ours who just passed away had 2 sons whose relationship fell out after the older son blamed the younger brother and sis-in-law for causing his business to go belly up.  The older son had hired the brother to help him out financially but the younger brother did something to create a huge financial loss to the company. The mother tried for many years to organize Christmas and Thanksgiving get-together with both families but the older son and his family would not show up.  For several years, she would drive a long way to see her older son the day after Christmas and Thanksgiving.  He would not write back when she wrote to him.  We assured her that he would get over it and come back to her/them at some point.  2 years ago, he suddenly came to his senses (he said he became religious) and reconnected with his mother and brother.  Our friend had a celebration of life while she was alive at the age of 75 this year and it was wonderful to see that the relationships were mended between the brothers.  She was very well loved by the community and she passed away around Thanksgiving Day this year.  We miss her very much and we are glad she had peace knowing that her sons are getting along again.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 26, 2016)

I appreciate your story, VacationForever!  I can only hope the two will work things out.  Our other son is just like me: baffled as to how this all got so nasty.  He is trying to stay neutral.  Right now, I am just trying to figure out where things went so wrong.  I keep replaying the entire incident in my head, and I don't know how anyone could take offense at the statement that was made.    

Our son is in a fragile state, in my opinion.  I know you think everyone needs to toughen up, Linda, vacationhopeful, but I had a brother-in-law, Rick's brother, who shot himself in the head while drunk.  This was only a few years ago.  He was an alcoholic.  What do you think Rick's worry is with our alcoholic son?  Of course he is thinking this could kill him, one way or another.  Our son gets out in 8 days.  EIGHT DAYS.  He will have been in rehab for 60 days, mostly away from all of us, including his two-year-old daughter.  All he needed was a setback.    

It's normal for addicts who have recently given up the drug of choice to be withdrawn.  That is what they do.  We take classes every Saturday with the other families, 75 minutes with a therapist, and it's apparent this is a normal reaction--withdrawing from conversation and retreating inward.  It's not like it's odd for him to react by being quiet.  He doesn't withdraw from us or his wife and daughter, but we we want that happy-go-lucky son back.  He is in a fragile state.  He just is right now, just as Ronnie was when he took the gun out of the gun safe and used it.


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## rapmarks (Dec 27, 2016)

It is really great that you are taking classes and learning about the disease.  I wish my daughters inlaws would stop being enablers, they have two alcoholic sons.  They make excuses for everything, after all, he only drinks one bottle a day (of vodka)


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## FLDVCFamily (Dec 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I appreciate your story, VacationForever!  I can only hope the two will work things out.  Our other son is just like me: baffled as to how this all got so nasty.  He is trying to stay neutral.  *Right now, I am just trying to figure out where things went so wrong.  I keep replaying the entire incident in my head, and I don't know how anyone could take offense at the statement that was made.*
> 
> Our son is in a fragile state, in my opinion.  I know you think everyone needs to toughen up, Linda, vacationhopeful, but I had a brother-in-law, Rick's brother, who shot himself in the head while drunk.  This was only a few years ago.  He was an alcoholic.  What do you think Rick's worry is with our alcoholic son?  Of course he is thinking this could kill him, one way or another.  Our son gets out in 8 days.  EIGHT DAYS.  He will have been in rehab for 60 days, mostly away from all of us, including his two-year-old daughter.  All he needed was a setback.
> 
> It's normal for addicts who have recently given up the drug of choice to be withdrawn.  That is what they do.  We take classes every Saturday with the other families, 75 minutes with a therapist, and it's apparent this is a normal reaction--withdrawing from conversation and retreating inward.  It's not like it's odd for him to react by being quiet.  He doesn't withdraw from us or his wife and daughter, but we we want that happy-go-lucky son back.  He is in a fragile state.  He just is right now, just as Ronnie was when he took the gun out of the gun safe and used it.



My 2 cents is that you need to stop replaying it in your head because I highly doubt that it was about whatever statement was made. It was probably about a lifetime of resentments towards this sibling. Was he always high-needs growing up? Did he require more from you and his dad than the other kids did? Every kid is different and every kid needs to be parented differently but that doesn't make it easier on the siblings sometimes.

My mom and my DH both difficult siblings have issues similar to each other, and issues that rock bottom might have helped to fix if either of them had ever been allowed to hit it. Mom and DH have both cut these people from their lives for their own safety and health. Prior to that, I witnessed blow-ups like you describe at gatherings, and they were never about whatever perceived slight happened in the moment. They were about pent-up resentments, anger that their parents were so concerned with the ill sibling that they were just expected to suck their own feelings up, etc.

I understand why you are so scared about your son if you lost your brother-in-law in such a horrible, tragic way. In a way, I also understand why my grandmother and my mother-in-law continually tried to make excuses for their ill children and to attempt to force relationships, "mend fences", etc. with the siblings. They wanted to "fix" things because they are moms and that's what moms do. Sometimes you can't "fix" what is wrong until the people with the issues fix themselves though...hopefully your son is on his way towards doing that, and part of that is making amends right?

What I can tell you is that, in the end, the relationship (or lack thereof) is between the siblings. Grandma and MIL both found themselves shut out by their healthy kids due to trying to foist relationships with the ill children on them. Sadly, MIL and DH don't have a relationship now because she made this a hill to die on, and my grandma died with my mom feeling pretty negatively about their relationship. If I had any advice to give as an observer, it would be to worry about your own relationship with each kid and let them worry about their relationships with each other. It won't be easy, but that way you don't risk pushing anyone away inadvertently, KWIM? Al-Anon would probably be really helpful if you can find a group near you. This sibling dynamic when one sibling is ill and there is drama with the other sibling relationships just seems so common that it must be something that Al-Anon has seen before and can offer advice/support regarding.


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## b2bailey (Dec 27, 2016)

.....but we we want that happy-go-lucky son back.  
= = =

This sentiment struck me hard enough to need to respond.

I'm guessing you will never have 'that' son return to you. You need to accept him back just as he is. It would be easier if he had suffered a physical brain injury...where you could better understand his limitations.

As for your daughter...sounds like she needs to work on forgiveness. It is true the entire family is affected.

And for you...good advice is to be found in two recent musical hits...
"Let it Go" and "Shake it Off" Easier said than done, but good practices. If you can't do this...how do you expect it from those around you?

In love, Bonnie


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 27, 2016)

Our alcoholic son was always the easy one. He was always the good student, the one that stayed out of trouble. and he didn't drink until he was 21.  He is the one who graduated from college with honors and got his master's degree.  I think Christine may have a point there.  The other two resented him for being the good kid, never getting in trouble.  He also just turned 40, he's the oldest, so this is not about a kid just out of college.  I think it's jealousy with our daughter.  And you are right, Christine, we should stay out of the kids' relationships.  I wish they didn't affect the holidays so completely.  We do go to Al-anon every Tuesday.  We will share our experience and see if the group has some advice.  

The other two were the difficult children.  Our daughter was more difficult for me.  I hear people say that's "normal" for a daughter.  But she is still not easy.  She sends me random emails chastising me for whatever supposed thing I did the night before to hurt her feelings.  She is really over sensitive.   Our younger son was a very strong-willed child and kept me exhausted throughout his childhood.  I was always chasing him around the house, even as a teen.  He had drinking problems as soon as he turned 21 that lasted several years, but he is not an alcoholic.  He is lucky he didn't get the gene.  



b2bailey said:


> As for your daughter...sounds like she needs to work on forgiveness. It is true the entire family is affected.



Yes, absolutely!  You are very astute to recognize this.  I appreciate your post, too, Bonnie.


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## FLDVCFamily (Dec 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our alcoholic son was always the easy one. He was always the good student, the one that stayed out of trouble. and he didn't drink until he was 21.  He is the one who graduated from college with honors and got his master's degree.  I think Christine may have a point there.  The other two resented him for being the good kid, never getting in trouble.  He also just turned 40, he's the oldest, so this is not about a kid just out of college.  I think it's jealousy with our daughter.  And you are right, Christine, we should stay out of the kids' relationships.  I wish they didn't affect the holidays so completely.  We do go to Al-anon every Tuesday.  We will share our experience and see if the group has some advice.
> 
> The other two were the difficult children.  Our daughter was more difficult for me.  I hear people say that's "normal" for a daughter.  But she is still not easy.  *She sends me random emails chastising me for whatever supposed thing I did the night before to hurt her feelings.*  She is really over sensitive.   Our younger son was a very strong-willed child and kept me exhausted throughout his childhood.  I was always chasing him around the house, even as a teen.  He had drinking problems as soon as he turned 21 that lasted several years, but he is not an alcoholic.  He is lucky he didn't get the gene.
> 
> ...



Wow, it sounds more like she has the issues then...some people look for anything to set them off and love to blow things out of proportion. It's like they're bored and looking for drama. It IS hard around the holidays. They magnify everything 1000% don't they? Oddly, DH and my mom are the "good kids" and the ill siblings resented the heck out of both of them. I remember DH's sister yelling at me that I needed to "make" him have a relationship with her and that he "must be so jealous of her life". It was really nuts, and I doubt even she believed it. 

Something else you said hit a nerve with me. You are going over and over this in your head, trying to figure out what triggered the issues at the holidays. MIL said that to me, exactly. She goes over and over it in her head, trying to pinpoint what went wrong to cause DH to "turn away" from his family. It was no one thing. It was a lifetime of dealing with an explosive sibling and a mother who expected him to continally "forgive". It must be human nature to want a moment to pin it all on, though, when really it's an ongoing dynamic between individual personalities that may or may not be resolvable. To me, siblings are like college roommates...some will be best friends, most will learn to coexist peacefully, and a few can't stand each other. It's a crapshoot. In the end, we can only worry about our own relationships with others and hope that they can resolve their differences on their own though...not that that makes things easier for a mom I'm sure!


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> <snip> I know you think everyone needs to toughen up, Linda, vacationhopeful, but I had a brother-in-law, Rick's brother, who shot himself in the head while drunk.  This was only a few years ago.  He was an alcoholic.  What do you think Rick's worry is with our alcoholic son?  Of course he is thinking this could kill him, one way or another.  Our son gets out in 8 days.  EIGHT DAYS.  He will have been in rehab for 60 days, mostly away from all of us, including his two-year-old daughter.  All he needed was a setback.
> 
> <snip>



Cindy,
Your son has been drinking for YEARS ... 60 days is only a flash in time for him and his addiction. Do you and the rest of the family 'walk on eggshells' for a week, 6 months, or 10 years? There is a reason it is said "1 day at a time" ... it represents "every moment, the addict has to CHOOSE to be sober".

Additionally, have you heard/understood the terms "Dry Alcoholic" or "Enabler"? Friends and the family .... along with your son .... need time to learn, reflect and soul search ... PERSONAL CHANGE for everyone is hard. And it takes many little steps going forwards, backwards, and SIDEWAYS.

I feel very much for you ... been where you are in an intimate relationship. It was not a picture perfect ending as my path with him could not be worked out.


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## VacationForever (Dec 27, 2016)

As parents, we all want our kids to love us as we love them, and for siblings to at least care for each other.  We all need to work on getting those "wants" out of system.  

My father, always the cynical one, told us since young, parents should never rely on their children and siblings not on each other, as some would turn out fine and some would turn out bad.  He said that was why he was so frugal, it was to protect himself financially and not need to rely on his children, which was all he could do in his power. My sister loved me when I was young and took good care of me when I was miserable in school - she always excelled, but then hated me in later years.  She felt that our parents favored me.  Even her husband wanted to date me before they went out together, and I never got invited to her wedding.  My parents never tried to fix our relationship but my mother would give me updates as to what was happening in my sister's life.  I am not sure if my mother updated her about my life as there was severe resentment.   In recent years, we are at least talking and she takes trips out here and I host her.  We will never be best friends and we get along because we are sisters.  

Moral of the story, don't try to fix your children's relationship with each other.  Work on your relationship with each of them and if they don't come to their senses, you can only hope that one day they grow up mentally and emotionally.


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## pedro47 (Dec 27, 2016)

AA can work but he will need some tough love from family & true friends. Please keep him away from his so call drinking buddies & friends. Family needs to listen and not feel sorry for him. My prays are with the whole family and your son. Please do not give up on him. You will need to pray daily and by the hour. Good Luck. A good / train counselor will listen to your son and a good counselor will also include all family members in the counseling sessions. Good luck.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 29, 2016)

In rehab, they go to AA meetings 8 times per week.  After he gets out, he will go to AA meetings every evening.  He gets strength from AA and his sponsor, who is an acquaintance of his from his field of work. 

Thank you for the continued prayers.  We have learned in Al-Anon that we are powerless over alcohol.  I felt powerless for six months of watching as he went downhill quickly.  He was always a problem drinker, but he became an alcoholic early May of this year.  His therapist at Kaiser said it was a switch he needed to turn off in his brain.  This was before rehab, when he was trying to figure out what was going on.  I don't know whether that is true or not, and I have not asked our son recently if he believes it's some "switch."  It seems rather simplistic.


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## spirits (Dec 29, 2016)

Keep on going to Alanon.....open AA meetings are also helpful.  When I first started in Alanon the information was overwhelming at times but the program is very gentle.....you take what you like and leave the rest (;  Slowly, the wisdom of the group started making sense to me.  My home group was and still is......made up of many in the medical profession.  If they needed help, with all their skills and training...then who was I to question my own need to learn about the disease?

I learned that many medical professionals thinks of alcoholism as a 3 pronged disease....that there is a switch in the brain that can take repeated exposure to alcohol until the syapses " break" and that is when the compulsion becomes overwhelming. So the disease is physical, spiritual psychological.   They told me they had worked with full blown alcoholics at age 9-10.  The more I learn...the more amazed I am.  What I am also learning is that the growth of addiction is HUGE....and growing.    

Good luck with your journey.......I have made many great friends from Alanon.  And I have a great deal of respect for those who have beaten their disease and are sober one day at a time.  God bless you and your family.


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## VacationForever (Dec 29, 2016)

To everyone reading this thread, do talk to your kids or grandkids through the formative years (before they even become teenagers) and throughout teenage years about the dangers of drinking and doing drugs.  Studies have shown that parents who regularly "educate" their children about addictive effects of drinking and drugs TEND to have less problematic adult children.  Cindy wrote about the culture of drinking, and fortunately it was not in the culture that I grew up in.  My parents drummed into our heads about drinks and drugs.  I did that to my kid as well.  My parents did not drink.  I don't drink and my son is the same way.  Even when he was in high school and through college, he never got into it while he saw his friends drinking and passing out.  It is not foolproof but it helps.


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## FLDVCFamily (Dec 29, 2016)

VacationForever said:


> To everyone reading this thread, do talk to your kids or grandkids through the formative years (before they even become teenagers) and throughout teenage years about the dangers of drinking and doing drugs.  Studies have shown that parents who regularly "educate" their children about addictive effects of drinking and drugs TEND to have less problematic adult children.  Cindy wrote about the culture of drinking, and fortunately it was not in the culture that I grew up in.  My parents drummed into our heads about drinks and drugs.  I did that to my kid as well.  My parents did not drink.  I don't drink and my son is the same way.  Even when he was in high school and through college, he never got into it while he saw his friends drinking and passing out.  It is not foolproof but it helps.



ITA with this. My parents didn't really talk to me about drinking or drugs, but we had some programs in school where a former addict came in to talk to us about addiction, staying away from drugs, how alcoholism/drug addiction is genetic in a lot of cases, etc. That all stuck with me. I saw enough people in my dad's family struggle with alcohol that I knew that I wanted no part of finding out if I had that gene or not. Even in college I stayed away from alcohol. There was some pressure to drink, but it wasn't anything terrible and people did respect it when I told them that I didn't drink and wasn't interested in starting. I already talk to my kids (8 and 11) ALL THE TIME about how strong the alcoholism gene is in my family and to stay the heck away from alcohol and drugs. I tell them how we buried grandpa's brother very young and it was due to booze...how awful it was because he looked just like grandpa and how much it scared me. Hopefully it sinks.

ETA - I think that the "culture of drinking/drugs" did exist when I was in college (I'm 42), but I think it's even worse now.


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## FLDVCFamily (Jan 6, 2017)

Bumping up to see how your son is doing and how you are doing. He is home now right?


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## BellaWyn (Jan 6, 2017)

rickandcindy23 said:


> In rehab, they go to AA meetings 8 times per week.  After he gets out, he will go to AA meetings every evening.  He gets strength from AA and his sponsor, who is an acquaintance of his from his field of work.
> 
> Thank you for the continued prayers.  We have learned in Al-Anon that we are powerless over alcohol.  I felt powerless for six months of watching as he went downhill quickly.  He was always a problem drinker, but he became an alcoholic early May of this year.  His therapist at Kaiser said it was a switch he needed to turn off in his brain.  This was before rehab, when he was trying to figure out what was going on.  I don't know whether that is true or not, and I have not asked our son recently if he believes it's some "switch."  It seems rather simplistic.



Cindy, Spirits post on what has been learned about how brain synapsis effect whole body is worth reading again (read it 4 x's and ITA from a pure experiencial perspective)  and getting a better understanding.  Have been keeping you and your family in our prayers and glad to know you are going to Alanon.  The more you learn about you, the better prepared you will be to navigate choices others make that you are powerless to influence.



FLDVCFamily said:


> Bumping up to see how your son is doing and how you are doing. He is home now right?


So glad you did this bump, was just thinking about how things are going also.


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## Tia (Dec 1, 2019)

I was just reading this thread again has many good helpful posts, dealing with our own deal. Hope original poster is doing well


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## rapmarks (Dec 1, 2019)

rapmarks said:


> It is really great that you are taking classes and learning about the disease.  I wish my daughters inlaws would stop being enablers, they have two alcoholic sons.  They make excuses for everything, after all, he only drinks one bottle a day (of vodka)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I read this with much sadness as both the son in law and his brother died ttwoand a half months apart, at age 40 and 31 a year and a half ago.


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## AnnaS (Dec 1, 2019)

I just noticed it was an old thread and a pp was asking about your son.

Hoping it is a positive update and all is well.


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## bogey21 (Dec 1, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Please keep him away from his so called drinking buddies & friends. Family needs to listen and not feel sorry for him.



Four or five years ago a big time alcoholic good friend of mine was found passed out on the floor of his home by his wife.  He damn near died.  His Daughter put him in rehab.  He called me about 6 months ago about something very important and during the conversation said he hadn't had a drink since leaving rehab.  He apologized for never calling but explained that while in rehab they told him never to talk with any of his old drinking buddies again.  He was told "No Exceptions".  He said he did what he was told and hasn't had a drink since.  He apologized in advance and told me it was unlikely I would ever hear from him again...

George


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2019)

Our son has been doing well and has been sober for 2.5 years.  He kept saying during rehab (3 years ago) that he was going to stop drinking "for now," which was his way of denying his issue.  That caused him to slide a bit after he received his PE licensing (passed the test as a sober man who did study for it).  I think he decided to celebrate and realized he really is an alcoholic, and we really weren't just exaggerating.  So he quit drinking again on his own after a confrontation by a lot of angry family members.  We really ganged up on him, kind of an intervention of sorts.

His wife didn't give up on him, and they even had a baby five months ago, a little boy to go with their 5-year-old daughter.  So I am very blessed.  He cannot believe he slipped after all of that.  But I am always wary.  You cannot ever be completely comfortable with an alcoholic in the family.  He knows his life will be in ruin with another drink.  

Sad.  I never drank much and then started to drink just in Hawaii.  I cannot do that ever again.  It's just something I decided was totally optional.


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## DrQ (Dec 1, 2019)

Hopefully he has accepted his disease and realizes it's a daily struggle. I'm glad that he has straightened out.


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## pedro47 (Dec 1, 2019)

No. But I have two close friends that needs to go. If you placed a a quart of liquor in front of them, they will not move until ever drop is gone.

But they would tell family members , that they are not alcoholics.

They needs help.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 1, 2019)

DrQ said:


> Hopefully he has accepted his disease and realizes it's a daily struggle. I'm glad that he has straightened out.


It's amazing how much it affects everything I do, and I didn't ever have an issue with drinking personally.  I notice TV shows, where they have a heart-to-heart discussion and make up, and then, "Let's have a drink."  It's rampant in our society, and for me, it's nonsense to make it such a huge part of TV and movies.


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## b2bailey (Dec 1, 2019)

Cindy, thank you for giving us an update, and thrilled your son has found the sober life. My nephew (age 36) just posted on FB that he is in his 11th month of sobriety. He was in danger of losing his family. I stand cheering for him (nervously).


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## VacationForever (Dec 1, 2019)

Talking about drinking, which I don't do alcohol because I just don't like alcohol.  I was playing cards when one lady in her 80s called the server over to order drinks.  There were 4 of us at the table, one person besides myself doesn't do alcohol.  We had ice tea.  This lady made a huge deal out of why we did not order alcohol and would not accept the answer that we just did not like alcohol.  In this society it is taken for granted that having an alcoholic drink anytime and all the time is acceptable, and even the norm.  She said she had to have her "drink" several times a day.  Good for her that she has lived into her 80s.  Her liver apparently has held up.


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## Tia (Dec 1, 2019)

So very glad to read, prayers.



rickandcindy23 said:


> Our son has been doing well and has been sober for 2.5 years.  He kept saying during rehab (3 years ago) that he was going to stop drinking "for now," which was his way of denying his issue.  That caused him to slide a bit after he received his PE licensing (passed the test as a sober man who did study for it).  I think he decided to celebrate and realized he really is an alcoholic, and we really weren't just exaggerating.  So he quit drinking again on his own after a confrontation by a lot of angry family members.  We really ganged up on him, kind of an intervention of sorts.
> 
> His wife didn't give up on him, and they even had a baby five months ago, a little boy to go with their 5-year-old daughter.  So I am very blessed.  He cannot believe he slipped after all of that.  But I am always wary.  You cannot ever be completely comfortable with an alcoholic in the family.  He knows his life will be in ruin with another drink.
> 
> Sad.  I never drank much and then started to drink just in Hawaii.  I cannot do that ever again.  It's just something I decided was totally optional.


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## JudyH (Dec 1, 2019)

Happy Thanksgiving. I am glad for you and your son. Hope each day is a good one.


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## Passepartout (Dec 1, 2019)

DWs youngest has ACHD, and was dependent on alcohol. His wife left him, taking their son to Paris. He struggled through a succession of jobs. Went to rehab 3-4 years ago. Joined AA. Went to meetings daily- often multiple times. He never had done anything 'half-way'. He 'discovered' physical training. Now he competes in Iron Man Triathlons, in the top 20% of his age group world wide. He just competed in Israel swimming 10 miles in the Sea of Galilea, cycling 120 miles over Golan Heights to the Dead Sea, and running a double marathon. He has absolutely ZERO desire for alcohol, and manages the IT for Burning Man.

He has come so far that we hardly recognize him. I'm not sure he recognizes the person he was.

Jim


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## AnnaS (Dec 2, 2019)

Very happy to read the positive update!!!


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 3, 2019)

Cindy, congratulations on your son's success. Drinking is pervasive on campus and for twenty-somethings for social gatherings so it is difficult to avoid.

FWIW...Some athletes fall into addictions when they stop the sport. Similarly it can be a healthy counterbalance to the addictions.

We enjoyed the movie, Rocketman about Sir Elton John. This chronicles his struggles with addictions early in his career and how he overcame them (plus the music can't be beat). It is amazing his talent still came through during his addiction years.


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## jojo777 (Dec 3, 2019)

Prayers for you all.  It's a terrible disease.


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## bogey21 (Dec 3, 2019)

I don't question and do understand the difficulty alcoholics have in distancing themselves from alcohol.  I am so fortunate not to have been one of them.  After drinking heavily for 30 or 40 years, about 4 years ago I decided to give up ice cream and alcohol to help me lose weight.  I was eating a pint of ice cream every afternoon and drinking a minium of 7 or 8 ozs of vodka every night.  I stopped buying ice cream and poured three or four 1.5 liter bottles of vodka down the drain.  Since then I have never eaten more than a spoonful of ice cream or drank  a single drop of alcohol.  My take is that it has to be in the genes...

PS Over time I was able to take my weight down from 205 to 155 pounds...

George


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## VacationForever (Dec 3, 2019)

We are good friends with a couple.  He drinks 2 bottles of wine per night, sometimes more.  For most part he is pleasant but once in a while he gets moody and his wife also said once in a while he would be verbally abusive towards her.

His wife said his father was an alcoholic.  One day he stopped drinking when he realized he was abusing his wife when he was drunk.

Our friend said she will ask his sister to intervene when she feels that his behavior is getting out of hand.

He is a nice person but he is definitely in denial that he is drinking too much.  I don't know when he will stop drinking like his father, or maybe his liver will give out before that happens.


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## rapmarks (Dec 3, 2019)

My alcoholic son in law was the most personable person I ever met.  He never met someone he didn’t like, and they liked him.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 3, 2019)

rapmarks said:


> My alcoholic son in law was the most personable person I ever met.  He never met someone he didn’t like, and they liked him.


My brother-in-law, my sister's former husband, was like that.  He was the nicest guy.  He died of Parkinson's recently, about four years ago, and it was very sad.  He was military in his younger years, and he was the easiest person to talk to about anything.  Highly intelligent, well-spoken, extremely good looking, my grandma always said he looked like Rock Hudson.  He lost his driver's license by the age of about 32 because he wouldn't stop driving drunk.  

He nearly killed himself with alcohol, had some issues with his liver and pancreas that had him writhing in pain early in their marriage.  My sister divorced him when my niece was about 3, my nephew was about 9, so 26 years ago.  Then he got Parkinson's.  He thought his shaking was because he needed a drink.  His medication for Parkinson's required that he stop drinking completely, but I doubt he quit.  He lived in Florida to be near his dad just before his death and was found in a ditch, almost dead.  His kids went to see him before he died.  They were convinced he was still drinking.  

He gave up a good life with a woman who adored him and three wonderful kids (who are weird as a result of this letdown by their dad).  So sad.  My sister was a wreck during his funeral.  I understood it.


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## rapmarks (Dec 3, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My brother-in-law, my sister's former husband, was like that.  He was the nicest guy.  He died of Parkinson's recently, about four years ago, and it was very sad.  He was military in his younger years, and he was the easiest person to talk to about anything.  Highly intelligent, well-spoken, extremely good looking, my grandma always said he looked like Rock Hudson.  He lost his driver's license by the age of about 32 because he wouldn't stop driving drunk.
> 
> He nearly killed himself with alcohol, had some issues with his liver and pancreas that had him writhing in pain early in their marriage.  My sister divorced him when my niece was about 3, my nephew was about 9, so 26 years ago.  Then he got Parkinson's.  He thought his shaking was because he needed a drink.  His medication for Parkinson's required that he stop drinking completely, but I doubt he quit.  He lived in Florida to be near his dad just before his death and was found in a ditch, almost dead.  His kids went to see him before he died.  They were convinced he was still drinking.
> 
> He gave up a good life with a woman who adored him and three wonderful kids (who are weird as a result of this letdown by their dad).  So sad.  My sister was a wreck during his funeral.  I understood it.


My son in law died at age 40, found dead on the street, leaving three wonderful boys who were 3, 6, and 9


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