# New Westin Flex owner - what did I miss?



## newgrandpa (Jan 23, 2020)

My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.

We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.

What am I missing?  Thanks.


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## stevio99 (Jan 23, 2020)

The fact that you should rescind this offer!  You paid way too much.  You typically have only a few days to rescind a timeshare purchase.  Do this today!  The offer will always be there, so don't hesitate to rescind the purchase.  Learn more about the system, and then purchase a resale from like ebay for 1/1000 the cost (do the learning after you rescind, time is of the essence).

Your welcome packet will have directions to rescind the purchase.  Follow it to the letter.  I would recommend you not talk to the sales representative, as he will definitely try to talk you out of it, or at least delay you past the recission time (varies by state, usually 5-7 days).  Hopefully others will chime in so you can understand the (very correctable at this point) mistake you made.  Almost all of us have made the same mistake.


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## goaliedave (Jan 23, 2020)

Rescind! Spend your money on ressle. How did you read all the posts on tug yet throw away $78k?
However, the properties are nice, so you will enjoy your vacations!

Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 23, 2020)

If the MF's on 243K FlexOptions is $5K/yr you should rescind for that reason alone.

You can buy resale units at Kierland with 243K StarOptions at Kierland for about $22K and your MF's would be about $2,800/yr (a 2bd platinum unit with 148K StarOptions for $14K and annual MF's of $1,645 and a 1bd flatinum unit with 81K StarOptions for about $8K and annual MF's of $1,010).


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


Omg omg no no nooooo rescind now!! Spend 30K on 296KSO by buying 2, 2 bedroom Westin kierland resale platinum year. Stop everything and rescind now then buy two WKV LOCKOUTS resale. Your maint will be half and you’ll save 48K. Holy moly rescind. I also love VSE but can’t drop the resale price on WKV so I went with SVV with a slight higher maint fee but much much lower buy in. I’d rather the WKV units. Check out redweek or the marketplace. There are some two bedrooms worth 148K SO floating around. Pick two of those up and you’re golden. @Grammarhero


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## newgrandpa (Jan 23, 2020)

vacationtime1 said:


> If the MF's on 243K FlexOptions is $5K/yr you should rescind for that reason alone.
> 
> You can buy resale units at Kierland with 243K StarOptions at Kierland for about $22K and your MF's would be about $2,800/yr (a 2bd platinum unit with 148K StarOptions for $14K and annual MF's of $1,646 and a 1bd flatinum unit with 81K StarOptions for about $8K and annual MF's of $1,010).



Interesting.  Where would I find these offers?  Are these limited to just Kierland?  Not sure I understand your statement about the MF - they are assessed to each SO owner based on a fixed amount per SO as far as the Westin Flex is concerned.


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## goaliedave (Jan 23, 2020)

It seems you didnt well research the advice on this site. Rescind now ask questions later

Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> Interesting.  Where would I find these offers?  Are these limited to just Kierland?  Not sure I understand your statement about the MF - they are assessed to each SO owner based on a fixed amount per SO as far as the Westin Flex is concerned.


Looks like all of the two bedrooms were sold. There is one listing left on redweek.com This is what you should be buying. Two of these. WKV is mandatory so the star options transfer on resale! This will hold its resale value. The Westin flex will be worthless as soon as the rescission period ends. You must follow the instructions to the T. All who signed the contract MUST sign the rescission letter. It must be postmarked by the period in the contract. Send certified, RRR mail. What you should be doing is finding out what you need to do to rescind and get it done TODAY. Trust us.


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 23, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> Interesting.  Where would I find these offers?  Are these limited to just Kierland?  Not sure I understand your statement about the MF - they are assessed to each SO owner based on a fixed amount per SO as far as the Westin Flex is concerned.



www.redweek.com, www.myresortnetwork.com, and the TUG Marketplace (https://tug2.com/timeshare-resales/default.aspx).

The current shortage of 2bd platinum Kierland units is unusual.  I own four Kierland units and track prices.  Be patient; these units will appear for sale over the next few months.


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## Iggyearl (Jan 23, 2020)

Not for nothing, but why buy a contract where you are prepaying 2 years worth of maintenance fees?  Why not pay $68,000 up front and get to the maintenance fees when they are due?  Makes me wonder if that part of the contract is in writing.  Timeshare salesmen are known to stretch the truth.  Anyway, all previous advice rings true.  Retail purchases are very expensive when compared to the resale market.


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## needvaca (Jan 23, 2020)

ditto Rescind asap.
way too high a price.
like others said, you can get the same Staroptions at a much lower entry price by buying 2 Westin Kierland Platinum resale, also at a much lower annual maintenance fee.
heck, start slow and just buy 1 Westin Kierland Platinum resale and see how it works for you.


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

needvaca said:


> ditto Rescind asap.
> way too high a price.
> like others said, you can get the same Staroptions at a much lower entry price by buying 2 Westin Kierland Platinum resale, also at a much lower annual maintenance fee.
> heck, start slow and just buy 1 Westin Kierland Platinum resale and see how it works for you.





newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


Did you rescind yet?


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## Synergy (Jan 23, 2020)

Oh, boy, please rescind!!  If you decide we're full of it next week, you can always get the same deal.  Rescind, research, and save a TON of money on the resale market!


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## Grammarhero (Jan 24, 2020)

@newgrandpa would you kindly let us know if you rescinded?


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## 5finny (Jan 24, 2020)

If you have not rescinded yet do so immediately !!!
Do not try to figure out your options before you rescind simply rescind now

You can explore your options at your leisure after you rescind


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## 3250 (Jan 25, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


Sounds like you’re missing $78K


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## lifesabeach101 (Jan 25, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


Take everyones advice
Recind, recind, recind!


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## Lansdowne (Jan 25, 2020)

We love Kierland, but this looks like too much to pay!  Beware, though, the small one bedroom at Kierland is claustrophobic!  Also, from what I understand, the Westin Flex Plan is the dregs of the unsold units. The way I understand it, and this was from a Westin salesman, there are just a few Kaanapali units in Hawaii, so they can say they are in the pool, but they go quickly!  Also, they are usually Mountain view units, which at Kaanapali South (not North), means you could end up with a wonderful view of the parking lot. I do not think there are many Kierland units either!


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## munthank (Jan 25, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


I happen to have 2 Bedroom lookoff Platinum Kierland. We are considering selling. I have too many timeshares. I also have Sheraton Flex. I traded in a few timeshares for the Flex which gave me a lot less Maintenance fees. So far working. Most of traded in came from ebay deals. I do think Kierland best value for the money. Low maintenance fees and Mandatory resort so points transfer at resale. I'm looking at how to put-up for sale. Will do shortly. 
One difference of buying resales is you have no status such as executive. That VSN status hasn't really helped me much as I'm good at knowing when to look and what to look for. Might be important to some. I'm sure more of an expert can tell you more.


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## jabberwocky (Jan 26, 2020)

Lansdowne said:


> We love Kierland, but this looks like too much to pay!  Beware, though, the small one bedroom at Kierland is claustrophobic!  Also, from what I understand, the Westin Flex Plan is the dregs of the unsold units. The way I understand it, and this was from a Westin salesman, there are just a few Kaanapali units in Hawaii, so they can say they are in the pool, but they go quickly!  Also, they are usually Mountain view units, which at Kaanapali South (not North), means you could end up with a wonderful view of the parking lot. I do not think there are many Kierland units either!



There is significant Hawaii inventory in Flex but just like with SO you will need to plan ahead.  From what I have seen (I could only start looking at reservations as of Jan 1 this year) is there is currently 2BR availability at Nanea constantly in Flex.  Some of the 2BR WKORV-N/S are grabbed very quickly but there are plenty of studios and 1BR at these resorts from what I have seen.  There also is an abundance at WPORV.  Desert units (WKV, WDW, WMH) have excellent availability in all room sizes - some of the 2BR WKV have gone quickly especially for next years auto auction week but 1BR large/small are available.  CO ski weeks are also in there, but not as plentiful and seem to get snatched up pretty quickly - that said you can get a 3-4 day mid-week reservation at WRMV.  If these are dregs then what the units available via SO?

And yes - there is no Maui OF units in Flex - this is stated up front and is quite prominent.  You will get either an IV or OV.  Keep in mind that room assignment is given based on the timestamp - so Flex owners should get a better room assignment within their category if they book within the 8-12 month period than a person booking with SO at 8 months.


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## robleland (Jan 26, 2020)

I just went to the Westin Maui Nanea timeshare presentation.  I totally love the ability to move between what, 3,000 different properties with the points.  It all sounds so good.  But the issue is the insane maintenance fees.  I think ours was going to be $2,600 per year for the "ocean view", not ocean front.  Mind you, at Nanea, probably 75% or more ocean views actually have fantastic views.  

I started with timeshares just in time .... 2007.  Just in time to get totally screwed.  I was actually helping my mom, and to be fair, she had 1031 exchange funds that needed a real estate home.  We bought 4 weeks at the Marriott Maui Lahaina Villas, fixed ocean front weeks.  After numerous visits to Maui, I still think these are the best units in Maui, but that isn't terribly important.

The math on full priced timeshares is insane.  Let's say you paid $68,000 upfront.  geeze, how many week long vacations does that pay for?  Let's say 15 weeks at $4,500.  That already sounds stupidly high.  Oh, but now you have $2,600 per year in additional expenses.  (you claimed $10k or so, but unless you had many weeks, the math is incorrect).  Wow, that's about $375 per night for 7 nights.  You've lost that money for 15 years waiting just for the initial purchase to pay off.  You've now just pissed away another $39,000 in fees during that 15 year period.  Using the same $4,500 budget you might typically spend on a week, you just pissed away another 8 weeks of vacation, or 8 years.   Simplistically, you have paid for 23 years of vacation, but you got 15.  

I get that there are other variables to this, but dumping $68k upfront is the biggest mistake - you likely have other use for this money and can vacation when you want.

If you are slightly flexible with your time, then renting timeshares via Redweek is an easy way to go.  Join it, and take a look around at both the resale and rental of your preferred resorts.  I've been renting out my mom's timeshares on redweek for over 10 years now.  I count us as extremely lucky because the rental value of our units on Maui have held their value.  One of the scariest things about reading TUG is all the timeshares that are for sale for $1.  That means the rental value of the timeshare is below the annual maintenance fee.  There are thousands of them and should be a lesson in itself.

Also, I want to clarify that when you buy in the secondary market, I'm almost certain you don't have ability to use your points at the Marriott network.  You might have a few you can pick from, but generally you have voided the trading of points an have to stay at your home resort.  So make sure you understand this and love the place you are picking.  (but you can always rent it to someone else, and then go elsewhere).


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 26, 2020)

@newgrandpa You only have 5 - 7 days depending on the state law to rescind. It goes by postmark not when received.
Follow the directions on your contract.

That deal will always be there if you research and later decide you want it.

But if you don't rescind NOW you will regret the loss of $78k of your hard earned retirement and you will be stuck with a very expensive plan that can be gotten for tens of thousands less via resale. Please confirm you have done this. You can then take your time and become an educated consumer before you spend money.


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## pchung6 (Jan 27, 2020)

Please rescind right now. You will have time to reconsider the purchase, better deals always out there. Your hard earned $78k retirement fund will be gone forever if you don't act now.


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## CPNY (Jan 27, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> Please rescind right now. You will have time to reconsider the purchase, better deals always out there. Your hard earned $78k retirement fund will be gone forever if you don't act now.


I truly hope he didn’t read what we all wrote and chose to ignore it. I’d be very upset for him


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## botham (Jan 28, 2020)

If he loves what he has bought and can afford to pay way over the odds, he’ll be happy.


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## CPNY (Jan 28, 2020)

botham said:


> If he loves what he has bought and can afford to pay way over the odds, he’ll be happy.


Ignorance is bliss. And 78K is a ton of cash.


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## critterchick (Jan 31, 2020)

botham said:


> If he loves what he has bought and can afford to pay way over the odds, he’ll be happy.



This. We bought our units (WPORV, Nanea and Flex) before we discovered these boards. Although I now know that we paid more than we had to, we are fortunate that it won't hobble us financially (barring market catastrophe) and we've been very happy with our expensive purchases.  

Having said that, however, I would join the chorus of rescind. Although the flexibility of trading among the various Westin properties is nice (and they added one building's worth of Nanea to the pool because of the scarcity of WKOR and WKORN units and the slow sales at Nanea), there is no ability to trade in to the Marriott properties at this time. Unless having Marriott Platinum status is important to you (DH is Titanium thanks to the ability to count villa stays) or you crave Vistana elite status, then you can do much better on the secondary market (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those [points). That's where we will look if we decide to expand our portfolio.

We are currently enjoying an OV at WKOR, overlooking the park with a lovely view of the ocean (would be spectacular if they laced the tree in front of our 5th floor unit). We booked at precisely 9:00pm PST 12 months out using our Flex.

OP - listen to the wise ones and RESCIND.


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## CPNY (Jan 31, 2020)

newgrandpa said:


> My wife and I are in our mid-60's, retired, live by ourselves in the Dallas area, and are in good active health. We've been to many TS presentations over the years and never purchased due to restrictions from family and work - no longer! Three days ago, we purchased the Westin Flex plan - 243,000 StarOptions while visiting the Scottsdale Kierland Villas which we really enjoyed. Paid $78k with first two years maintenance fees waived - about a $10k value so our net cost is $68k. Vistana agreed to load 486,000 SO's (first two years worth) as soon as we are set up in their system. Westin Flex included Vistana properties in Scottsdale (1), Palm Springs (2), Hawaii (4), and Colorado (1) - all places we've visited before many times and would visit readily again - our daughter lives in Phoenix. We paid cash for the SO's.
> 
> We liked the idea of trading to other VSE properties and to trade to other Marriott Vacation Club properties on an equivalent value basis. 243,000 SO's should get us into a one bedroom premium villa at high season anywhere in their system. Rep said that sometime in next year or so Marriott and Vistana systems will be merged due to common ownership and exchanges will be treated as internal without having to go through Interval International.
> 
> What am I missing?  Thanks.


Did you rescind?


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