# I’m not crazy and not the indecisive type, but...



## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

All right, I know I’ve been sharing with you my journey on buying more time with Marriott. I was about to close the deal, but had reservations about the St. Kitts week in the purchase. The ante was upped with the  Ocean Pointe worth 5375 DC being thrown into the mix instead of the DSV I week worth 3225 DC points. I struggled with all of this and then I decided not todo it at all.  I had been working with the salesperson for a little over a month. However, that St. Kitts week was messing with my mind. I was reading about seaweed issues, hurricane concerns and difficulty in reselling if desired. Based upon that anda little chat with my financial advisor, I decided to pull out.

However, a few days after sharing that decision with the salesman, I received a call from him and his boss. They knew I was concerned about the St. Kitts week and knew that I liked Aruba better, but it was more expensive for the less DP value. They asked me to hold off on making a final decision because there were going to be some rate reductions on Aruba properties. I said fine. There wasnt going to be anything lost on my part by waiting. I also shared that the 300,000 Marriott Rewards Points they were adding as an incentive weren’t much of an incentive anymore since Marriott was devaluing them come August 1st. They said they would look into it.


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

Sorry. I did not finish and somehow I prematurely posted. I couldn’t figure out how to delete it.

Anyhow, this is what they came back with:

Aruba Surf Club 2 bedroom platinum Ocean view worth DC 4075 points
Ocean Pointe 2 bedroom 5375 DC points

That’s a total of 9450 DC points value.
These are both loc off units.

PRICE PER POINT $5.75
MF PER POINT.     $  .39

They offered 100,000 additional MRP to bring it to 400,000
Plus the will pay my Aruba MF for 2020
Plus they will deposit a 2 bedroom platinum week into Interval International for me.

The deal seems to get a little sweeter each time. 

Thoughts?


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## pedro47 (Jul 14, 2018)

I agree that second deal is very sweet.


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> I agree that second deal is very sweet.



That’s actually the third offer. I feel like I’m meeting The Godfather, where he’s making me an offer I can’t refuse.


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## Fasttr (Jul 14, 2018)

This has been an emotional roller coaster for you for sure.  I prefer the Aruba deal to your St. Kitts deal, but still, its a lot of dough.  If it will not negatively affect your life financially and puts a smile on your face, they are certainly two nice weeks and having them enrolled is extra nice.


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> This has been an emotional roller coaster for you for sure.  I prefer the Aruba deal to your St. Kitts deal, but still, its a lot of dough.  If it will not negatively affect your life financially and puts a smile on your face, they are certainly two nice weeks and having them enrolled is extra nice.



It won’t negatively affect me financially, but it is a heavy up front cost. I looked at this as about $6400/year over 20 years for accommodations. However, if I were to rent these units for a week on Redweek during platinum season, they would be a minimum os $2000 or more each. Renting the points would be more. A two bedroom at Ocean Pointe OF during platinum season is almost $2900 if I rented points at.55 cents and for Aruba Surf Club over $2500 renting points to stay there at .55/pt.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 14, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> It won’t negatively affect me financially, but it is a heavy up front cost. I looked at this as about $6400/year over 20 years for accommodations. However, if I were to rent these units for a week on Redweek during platinum season, they would be a minimum os $2000 or more each. Renting the points would be more. A two bedroom at Ocean Pointe OF during platinum season is almost $2900 if I rented points at.55 cents and for Aruba Surf Club over $2500 renting points to stay there at .55/pt.



That is a *lot* of money upfront! I know you want to look at it per point, but, you could also look at it as 2 weeks. Expensive 2 weeks. If I understand correctly, you can rent for less? The 400k MR are certainly, even devalued, worth a couple thousand. The platinum week is worth more than 2K depending on how you trade it. Aruba MF close to 2k. So, you are getting ~6k+ in incentives. The way I view deals, I do subtract that from the upfront cost. 

I don't recall if this gets you a higher MVCI ownership level. If you are not already at least Executive, then, obviously you will be. There's value in those perks as well depending on if you use them or not.

I like it better than your St Kitts deal. The MF/pt is good. I wouldn't personally shell out that much cash for the deal, $6400/year over 20 years is going to be hard to get value out of. But, that doesn't mean anything as it's up to you. What exactly are you trying to accomplish, just more time, or, other benefits?


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## TXTortoise (Jul 14, 2018)

I find it more interesting that they have continued to work with you, in what seems to be a really professional manner, to create a deal that works.

If you really like Aruba, will use it or know it will rent well, like you said...it just keeps getting better. 

Any value in comparing the two Aruba resorts and see if Surf Club makes sense vs Ocean or if it's a wash in MF, usage, etc.  I know folks usually have a strong preference of one over the other on here.

and FWIW, go look at Maui fixed weeks and the out-of-pocket dollars may look even better on your deal. ;-)


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> That is a *lot* of money upfront! I know you want to look at it per point, but, you could also look at it as 2 weeks. Expensive 2 weeks. If I understand correctly, you can rent for less? The 400k MR are certainly, even devalued, worth a couple thousand. The platinum week is worth more than 2K depending on how you trade it. Aruba MF close to 2k. So, you are getting ~6k+ in incentives. The way I view deals, I do subtract that from the upfront cost.
> 
> I don't recall if this gets you a higher MVCI ownership level. If you are not already at least Executive, then, obviously you will be. There's value in those perks as well depending on if you use them or not.
> 
> I like it better than your St Kitts deal. The MF/pt is good. I wouldn't personally shell out that much cash for the deal, $6400/year over 20 years is going to be hard to get value out of. But, that doesn't mean anything as it's up to you. What exactly are you trying to accomplish, just more time, or, other benefits?



Steve, I’m looking for more time and flexibility. Yes, I too looked at I as two weeks. However, I see a lot of flexibility in being able to extend stays as needed, take advantage of 60 day discounts since I’d be at Presidential level, provide additional accommodations when traveling with my kids and grandkids. However, with retirement looking, I see quite a bit of travel in the near future and accommodations are one of the biggest expenses. I’m not going to get this amount of points at this price resale, and buying weeks units resale don’t offer the same level of flexibility I would get from these units. I’d be in total control of my traveling world. The Sunday-Thursday stays also saves a lot on points. In addition, I’m thinking that I have the ability to lock off to rent or trade through II or exchange to points as decided. The trading and renting I could do with a regular resale week, I know, but the real flexibility comes through the points usage. 

I saw this as being cheaper than paying over $100,000 by buying the same number of points. Plus the difference in maintenance fees is almost $1500 annually. If the spread were to stay about the same that be about $30,000 saved compared to buying regular points.

Plus, I can actually see me staying at each of these resorts. My goal is to travel the globe, but if I had to I could stay at any one of these resorts and I’d be fine.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 14, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Steve, I’m looking for more time and flexibility. Yes, I too looked at I as two weeks. However, I see a lot of flexibility in being able to extend stays as needed, take advantage of 60 day discounts since I’d be at Presidential level, provide additional accommodations when traveling with my kids and grandkids. However, with retirement looking, I see quite a bit of travel in the near future and accommodations are one of the biggest expenses. I’m not going to get this amount of points at this price resale, and buying weeks units resale don’t offer the same level of flexibility I would get from these units. I’d be in total control of my traveling world. The Sunday-Thursday stays also saves a lot on points. In addition, I’m thinking that I have the ability to lock off to rent or trade through II or exchange to points as decided. The trading and renting I could do with a regular resale week, I know, but the real flexibility comes through the points usage.
> 
> I saw this as being cheaper than paying over $100,000 by buying the same number of points. Plus the difference in maintenance fees is almost $1500 annually. If the spread were to stay about the same that be about $30,000 saved compared to buying regular points.
> 
> Plus, I can actually see me staying at each of these resorts. My goal is to travel the globe, but if I had to I could stay at any one of these resorts and I’d be fine.



i see. Yes, that's why I own points also. It is useful to hear what your goals are. I definitely love the extensions of week stays, as you say Sun-Thu. I always make my week stay accordingly so I don't need any weekend nights. And I also use the within 60 day discount. There is no way to beat that price resale points, also true. We sound very similar. We have also been traveling all around the world. Given what you are wanting to do, this makes more sense. If you have other enrolled weeks, it's even better since then trades are cheaper, lockoff is "free", etc. It is indeed possible to get a lot of value with points, though some on Tug will tell you otherwise.


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> I find it more interesting that they have continued to work with you, in what seems to be a really professional manner, to create a deal that works.
> 
> If you really like Aruba, will use it or know it will rent well, like you said...it just keeps getting better.
> 
> ...



Well, like I said to him, I can think of 50,000 reasons why he’d continue to work with me. I had actually signed some paperwork a couple of weeks ago, but had not turn everything in because of an error from one of their salesman while I was in Hawaii. It was handled to my satisfaction but for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I was pulling the plug on the whole deal. 

I had looked at the Aruba Surf Club’s rental rates on Redweek but I did not go down far enough to see what January through March were like. Yikes! They could pay the maintenance fees for two properties. That does put a nice little spin on things. The out of pocket starts to not look so bad at all.  

Apparently, both Aruba properties are very nice from all the reviews. The Surf Club is more family friendly. It’s larger and has great pools which my five year old will like. The Ocean Club supposedly is a little quieter, but it’s smaller and they are very close to one another. The Ocean Club’s maintenance fees are about $80 more expensive than the Surf Club’s. Also, the Ocean Club does not have lock off units like the Surf Club. 

Overall, its really looking pretty good in my eyes.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 14, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, like I said to him, I can think of 50,000 reasons why he’d continue to work with me. I had actually signed some paperwork a couple of weeks ago, but had not turn everything in because of an error from one of their salesman while I was in Hawaii. It was handled to my satisfaction but for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I was pulling the plug on the whole deal.
> 
> I had looked at the Aruba Surf Club’s rental rates on Redweek but I did not go down far enough to see what January through March were like. Yikes! They could pay the maintenance fees for two properties. That does put a nice little spin on things. The out of pocket starts to not look so bad at all.
> 
> ...



Just watch for the Aruba "event weeks"...


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> i see. Yes, that's why I own points also. It is useful to hear what your goals are. I definitely love the extensions of week stays, as you say Sun-Thu. I always make my week stay accordingly so I don't need any weekend nights. And I also use the within 60 day discount. There is no way to beat that price resale points, also true. We sound very similar. We have also been traveling all around the world. Given what you are wanting to do, this makes more sense. If you have other enrolled weeks, it's even better since then trades are cheaper, lockoff is "free", etc. It is indeed possible to get a lot of value with points, though some on Tug will tell you otherwise.



Also, I have my in laws that like to tag along on my vacations. I charge them. I don’t charge a lot, but I I charge them. We were in Hawaii for three weeks last month and my sister in law and her daughter met us in Hawaii for ten days. She was with us five days in Kauai and 5 days in Oahu. I charged her $1000. That’s a great deal at least in my opinion. She loves going to the Marriott’s. Ko Olina blew her mind.  We stayed in my Diamond timeshare in Kauai. She loved that too. Both had ocean views. So when family travels, I usually charge everyone except my own children. I started that bad habit when they were born.


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## csalter2 (Jul 14, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Just watch for the Aruba "event weeks"...



Am I watching those to make a reservation for renting the unit or to avoid going there at that time?

It does seem as if there is a great deal of renting that goes on in Aruba. With so many people renting competition is probably very stiff.


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## Luvtoride (Jul 14, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, like I said to him, I can think of 50,000 reasons why he’d continue to work with me. I had actually signed some paperwork a couple of weeks ago, but had not turn everything in because of an error from one of their salesman while I was in Hawaii. It was handled to my satisfaction but for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I was pulling the plug on the whole deal.
> 
> I had looked at the Aruba Surf Club’s rental rates on Redweek but I did not go down far enough to see what January through March were like. Yikes! They could pay the maintenance fees for two properties. That does put a nice little spin on things. The out of pocket starts to not look so bad at all.
> 
> ...



You will want to use the Aruba week often.  We are going back to the Surf club next Sunday with our kids and grandkids and this has become an annual family trip that we all look forward to.  We usually add an extra night or two onto our week with points.  We have stayed at both Surf club and Ocean club and they are both great adjacent properties.   
Overall, your strategy of using this interesting hybrid method to achieve a great total of enrolled points is a good one.  We are chairman’s level and the perks and benefits of this level were an important goal for us when we made our last and final purchase 3 years ago. Just make sure you are getting to where you want to be in points and level as you will never have better leverage than you have now with his significant purchase.  Good luck. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 14, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Am I watching those to make a reservation for renting the unit or to avoid going there at that time?
> 
> It does seem as if there is a great deal of renting that goes on in Aruba. With so many people renting competition is probably very stiff.



No, it's definitely something to avoid. 

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/aruba-“event-week”-in-full-swing.268560/


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 15, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, like I said to him, I can think of 50,000 reasons why he’d continue to work with me. I had actually signed some paperwork a couple of weeks ago, but had not turn everything in because of an error from one of their salesman while I was in Hawaii. It was handled to my satisfaction but for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I was pulling the plug on the whole deal.
> 
> I had looked at the Aruba Surf Club’s rental rates on Redweek but I did not go down far enough to see what January through March were like. Yikes! They could pay the maintenance fees for two properties. That does put a nice little spin on things. The out of pocket starts to not look so bad at all.
> 
> ...



I've never heard the pitch with these hybrid deals so help me understand how the price works out to $5.75 per point and does that mean your upfront cost is $54k? With annual MF of $3685? 


If these numbers are correct  I think with the ST Kitt switched with the Surf Club the deal makes more sense to me.  I owned an Aruba 2BDRM OV Surf Club that I bought pre-construction and although there are 2 higher view categories it always rented very well for me on Redweek for 6 years. I did ultimately sell it a few years ago because I got a great offer and we personally don't like Aruba but  I'm very confident speaking from direct experience that Aruba is a much better renter than ST Kitts would've been.

If you haven't close the deal yet I'd tell them if you let you pay the total with your MR Visa I'll sign on the dotted line. If they balk try to negotiate as much as you can. They will allow some but obviously the more the better.

The other thing I'd personally request but may not be relative to all, is to have post 2010 weeks added to my DC portfolio. 

This deal is even starting to intrigue me.


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## m61376 (Jul 15, 2018)

Just throwing one more suggestion out, which may not be relevant. Since you mention Aruba and using and/or renting, and since you have kids/grandkids/ family who travel with you, the 3BR units there are fabulous. We have a 3 BR gold week there that we live for a family beach vacation, while our 2BR Plat. is used for adult relaxation.
Although we use the weeks, there is a huge and profitable rental market for Aruba weeks.


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## cp73 (Jul 15, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> It won’t negatively affect me financially, but it is a heavy up front cost.



If its a heavy up front costs then it will affect you financially. As much as I love my one timeshare I just couldn't see spending that kind of money on more points. Whats that worth the minute after you purchase it....? there is your answer from me. 

You say you want to travel more. There lots of ways to travel and see a lot more places than just through a timeshare. I retired a little over a year ago and and have been looking at doing all sorts of trips, most which dont include timeshares as much as I love them. 
If you need more family on one of your next trips let me know. I like your rates.


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## csalter2 (Jul 15, 2018)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I've never heard the pitch with these hybrid deals so help me understand how the price works out to $5.75 per point and does that mean your upfront cost is $54k? With annual MF of $3685?
> 
> 
> If these numbers are correct  I think with the ST Kitt switched with the Surf Club the deal makes more sense to me.  I owned an Aruba 2BDRM OV Surf Club that I bought pre-construction and although there are 2 higher view categories it always rented very well for me on Redweek for 6 years. I did ultimately sell it a few years ago because I got a great offer and we personally don't like Aruba but  I'm very confident speaking from direct experience that Aruba is a much better renter than ST Kitts would've been.
> ...




The hybrid deal worked like this. Ordinarily, Marriott only sells points. They want you to buy 3000 of them at $13.96/pt. I just called them out of the blue.  I wanted to add more time. I wasn’t sure if I was going to add one or two Ko Olina resales to my already enrolled one or what. In fact, I had made an offer on a Ko Olina resale and decided to call Marriott to see what opportunities they had. Of course the 300 POINTS sale came up and I declined. However, the salesman started talking about buying a St. Kitts WEEK or Aruba WEEK. These were weeks that could not be placed in the trust so Marriott still had to sell them as weeks. I could get I got the idea that I would buy a very desirable week like Presidents week which is platinum plus because I could get a week that was enrolled, could be turned into points and was waaaaaay less than buying plain DC points. 3000 DC points was almost $42,000. A St. Kitts week for a platinum Garden view gave you the option to turn them in for 3300 DC points for only $26,000. So I was like well what would a platinum week get me and on up. I looked at the Christmas week 2 bedroom OS and it was 5075 DC points for $44,500. So this is how I was thinking. Why buy DC points, get them cheaper through an enrolled week. Also, doing it this way you paid the same maintenance fee regardless of how many DC points it was worth. If you buy DCpoints, MF as you know are based on how many points you have. That was also appealing to me.  I mulled over that quite a bit, but it was difficult for me because it just seemed like a lot of money for the one property that was not high on my go to list. Plus, I wanted a lockoff. 

Seeing that I was hesitant, the salesman talked about doing a hybrid where I would be able to do the points and another property. I looked at some options and I really didn’t like that either. Then a week or so later, he said there was a special (you know there’s always a special ) that was being promoted in which you could buy a property but the other one did not have to be of greater value. He said he’d try to get permission for me to link two properties instead of a property and points. So the first deal was a St. Kitts and a Desert Springs Villas I week. I was looking at a sweet deal of about 6850 total DC points between the two for about $38,000. I liked that. I loved the price and value. Then he mentioned St. Kitts and Ocean Pointe OF 2 bedroom lockoff which could be turned in for 5375 points. That was golden to me but my only hesitation was the gut telling me that St. Kitts wasn’t a good fit. So now we’re 2 months into this and I think I’ve got a very palatable offer. That gives me places that I would be comfortable visiting, they’re all rentable and they’re all enrolled in the program. The maintenance fees are $3717.58 for the two weeks which can be turned into 9450 DC points. 3717.58 / 9450 = .393 as opposed to being charged .55 * 9450 = $5197.50 for DC points. That’s a $1479.92 difference. 

The hard part is the mental anguish of the initial outlay.

I don’t have a MR card. I’ll use the Chase Sapphire Card if anything. I was going pay cash. 

Thanks for the Aruba information. That makes me feel better.


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## csalter2 (Jul 15, 2018)

cp73 said:


> If its a heavy up front costs then it will affect you financially. As much as I love my one timeshare I just couldn't see spending that kind of money on more points. Whats that worth the minute after you purchase it....? there is your answer from me.
> 
> You say you want to travel more. There lots of ways to travel and see a lot more places than just through a timeshare. I retired a little over a year ago and and have been looking at doing all sorts of trips, most which dont include timeshares as much as I love them.
> If you need more family on one of your next trips let me know. I like your rates.



You’re a neighbor I see but not a family member so you don’t qualify for the family rate.

I’m actually not buying points but weeks. When I use my one timeshare and get two weeks. I’m fine. When I think of my total upfront cost of my first timeshare at Ko Olina and my maintenance fee and I peruse how much hotels cost, I feel fine. 

I’m normal I think in not liking to see my money flowing out of my pocket and into another’s.

I’d love to hear your recommends.

Would you have some alternat


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> I’m actually not buying points but weeks.


If true, have you considered the delta in upfront costs between purchasing these weeks from MVC, vs purchasing them via the true resale marketplace?

That delta is the true cost of the enrollment of those weeks.


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## csalter2 (Jul 15, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> If true, have you considered the delta in upfront costs between purchasing these weeks from MVC, vs purchasing them via the true resale marketplace?
> 
> That delta is the true cost of the enrollment of those weeks.





Fasttr said:


> If true, have you considered the delta in upfront costs between purchasing these weeks from MVC, vs purchasing them via the true resale marketplace?
> 
> That delta is the true cost of the enrollment of those weeks.



I’m not sure if I understand. If I purchase these weeks resale, I would not be able to have them converted to points. I’ve looked at the asking prices on Redweek before and the OP week being resold for between $15,000 - $18,000. The Aruba week resales are $15,000 - $20,000 for the same unit. The difference in the OP week is $800 -3000 and the difference for the Aruba week is between $15,000 - 20,000.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> I’m not sure if I understand. If I purchase these weeks resale, I would not be able to have them converted to points. I’ve looked at the asking prices on Redweek before and the OP week being resold for between $15,000 - $18,000. The Aruba week resales are $15,000 - $20,000 for the same unit. The difference in the OP week is $800 -3000 and the difference for the Aruba week is between $15,000 - 20,000.


Was just challenging you to ponder if it was worth it to you to spend between $16K-$23K extra in upfront costs for the ability to convert your weeks to points should you so choose to in any given year.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 15, 2018)

Remembering, that even if he never turns his weeks into points, he gets the benefits he was looking for with the ownership level, along with cheaper II fees.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Remembering, that even if he never turns his weeks into points, he gets the benefits *he was looking for* with the ownership level, along with cheaper II fees.


Except in multiple threads related to this story, he has claimed more than once that ownership level benefits was not high (if at all) on his list of reasons for doing this.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 15, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> Except in multiple threads related to this story, he has claimed more than once that ownership level benefits was not high (if at all) on his list of reasons for doing this.



I understand as I read those also, but in this thread, message 9, he claimed those were important to him. Maybe he has re-thought his position.


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## Fasttr (Jul 15, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I understand as I read those also, but in this thread, message 9, he claimed those were important to him. Maybe he has re-thought his position.


By the sounds of it, he has rethought every position over the past few weeks.


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## TXTortoise (Jul 15, 2018)

Sounds like a good process vs "I just bought week/points from Marriott, did I do OK?" ;-)


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## csalter2 (Jul 15, 2018)

I want to share that when I went exploring the possibilities of more timeshare, my purpose was strictly for more time and for more flexibility to accommodate my kids and grandkids. Going up in ownership tiers was not my motivation. I’ve been in the timeshare game long enough to know that today’s benefits can be gone tomorrow. So when I stated that executive or presidential levels were not important. They were not important in my decision making process. However, now that I’m strongly considering this purchase, I do look at the additional benefits provided by the presidential level. There are some attractive features such as the 1.5 year banking window and the 60 day discount. The sad part is that I’m about 1500 points out from the chairman level, and it starts making think should I just increase to a higher Aruba week to attain that level. You see, it can be never ending. This is why I did not make the loyalty levels part of my basic goal.

I must admit that the fees saved with II can be significant also. I locked off my Ko Olina week and saved over $100 right off the back. With owning three units and converting to DC, renting or exchanging or even converting to MRP’s if I should so choose would save lots of money. 

So if I she’ll out this initial outlay over buying resale points, this deal is an absolute NO BRAINER. If I look at it from a resale weeks perspective, it’s a little more complicated. If I’m buying these two weeks for let’s say $25,000 more. I get to save money on II Fees, I can switch to points to extend stays or leave or arrive during Tuesday’s - Thursday’s when flights are cheaper (I can tell you from my last trip to Hawaii last month I saved a a few hundred dollars leaving on a Wednesday as opposed to the weekend), I’m getting a year of maintenance fees paid, I’m getting 400,000 MRP’S, i have the ability to convert to points and bank them a year and a half out, I get a platinum Marriott Rewards member’s benefits, a 60 day discount on points stays, and Marriott is placing a platinum 2bedroom week into II for me.

Will I get that $25K difference back? Well, some of those benefits give back immediately such as the paid maintenance fees for a year and MRP’s. I could technically rent out all three of my Marriott weeks and go on vacation and lose nothing. If I were to be able to rent both Ocean Pointe (which by the way includes Christmas, New Years, and Presidents Day for platinum owners and I have an OCEAN FRONT 2 bedroom) at just $2000 , I would see more savings. 

With your help, I’m seeing a clearer picture as we analyze this.


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## csalter2 (Jul 15, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> By the sounds of it, he has rethought every position over the past few weeks.



I’ve had a shift from the moment I considered BUYING more time from Marriott. I was strictly a rent and don’t add on any more MF’s type of guy. However, you do get to a point that you wish you could do what needed to be done when you’re ready. Once I saw a unit available at night online, but I couldn’t just make the reservation. It was gone when I looked the next morning and it never came back. Plus, you have to be sure you don’t rent too many points because you can’t use 50 extra points. That becomes wasted dollars. Over time that adds up.


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## jeepie (Jul 16, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> The hybrid deal worked like this. Ordinarily, Marriott only sells points. They want you to buy 3000 of them at $13.96/pt. I just called them out of the blue.  I wanted to add more time. I wasn’t sure if I was going to add one or two Ko Olina resales to my already enrolled one or what. In fact, I had made an offer on a Ko Olina resale and decided to call Marriott to see what opportunities they had. Of course the 300 POINTS sale came up and I declined. However, the salesman started talking about buying a St. Kitts WEEK or Aruba WEEK. These were weeks that could not be placed in the trust so Marriott still had to sell them as weeks. I could get I got the idea that I would buy a very desirable week like Presidents week which is platinum plus because I could get a week that was enrolled, could be turned into points and was waaaaaay less than buying plain DC points. 3000 DC points was almost $42,000. A St. Kitts week for a platinum Garden view gave you the option to turn them in for 3300 DC points for only $26,000. So I was like well what would a platinum week get me and on up. I looked at the Christmas week 2 bedroom OS and it was 5075 DC points for $44,500. So this is how I was thinking. Why buy DC points, get them cheaper through an enrolled week. Also, doing it this way you paid the same maintenance fee regardless of how many DC points it was worth. If you buy DCpoints, MF as you know are based on how many points you have. That was also appealing to me.  I mulled over that quite a bit, but it was difficult for me because it just seemed like a lot of money for the one property that was not high on my go to list. Plus, I wanted a lockoff.
> 
> Seeing that I was hesitant, the salesman talked about doing a hybrid where I would be able to do the points and another property. I looked at some options and I really didn’t like that either. Then a week or so later, he said there was a special (you know there’s always a special ) that was being promoted in which you could buy a property but the other one did not have to be of greater value. He said he’d try to get permission for me to link two properties instead of a property and points. So the first deal was a St. Kitts and a Desert Springs Villas I week. I was looking at a sweet deal of about 6850 total DC points between the two for about $38,000. I liked that. I loved the price and value. Then he mentioned St. Kitts and Ocean Pointe OF 2 bedroom lockoff which could be turned in for 5375 points. That was golden to me but my only hesitation was the gut telling me that St. Kitts wasn’t a good fit. So now we’re 2 months into this and I think I’ve got a very palatable offer. That gives me places that I would be comfortable visiting, they’re all rentable and they’re all enrolled in the program. The maintenance fees are $3717.58 for the two weeks which can be turned into 9450 DC points. 3717.58 / 9450 = .393 as opposed to being charged .55 * 9450 = $5197.50 for DC points. That’s a $1479.92 difference.
> 
> ...


Putting it on the Chase Sapphire Reserve Card for 3x UR points and then paying it before due would work well.


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## TXTortoise (Jul 16, 2018)

This is probably the best high points acquisition offer I can remember reading about on here.  As I was thinking about your buy-in cost, it reminded me of the seasonal offer to buy 5000 points and how Marriott would enroll 3(?) or more post-2010 weeks.  I wonder if they would consider this level of purchase sufficient to do the same thing vs a pure points purchase.  

Basically if one was willing to fund a $50K purchase this would be a way to maximize points across the board for an owner of 3 or more weeks.  While I'm still looking for specific MOC winter fixed weeks, this offer does offer an alternative at a similar price point with the freedom of points if needed.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> This is probably the best high points acquisition offer I can remember reading about on here.  As I was thinking about your buy-in cost, it reminded me of the seasonal offer to buy 5000 points and how Marriott would enroll 3(?) or more post-2010 weeks.  I wonder if they would consider this level of purchase sufficient to do the same thing vs a pure points purchase.
> 
> Basically if one was willing to fund a $50K purchase this would be a way to maximize points across the board for an owner of 3 or more weeks.  While I'm still looking for specific MOC winter fixed weeks, this offer does offer an alternative at a similar price point with the freedom of points if needed.



To have have 3 units that all lockoff, all have the points alternative, all rent well, all exchange well, and all are desirable for you to visit seem to be a real coup. The willingness to do it is one thing, how wise it is to fund it is another. It’s like cars. I love and always have love Porches. However, even though I can afford one is it wise for me to put my 6’4” body into it just because I like it. I already have a Mercedes. Do I really need the Porsche? I can get a used on with very few miles, but I won’t have the incentives and one or two bells and whistles the newer model offers.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> I find it more interesting that they have continued to work with you, in what seems to be a really professional manner, to create a deal that works.
> 
> If you really like Aruba, will use it or know it will rent well, like you said...it just keeps getting better.
> 
> ...



There was something that I omitted in their offerings to me, because I didn’t really consider it because it was a one bedroom. However, there was a comment in the salesman’s last sentence on his email that I just read about that one bedroom. The platinum one bedroom OCEAN FRONT at Aruba OCEAN  Club includes Christmas, New Years Eve and Presidents weeks. I looked at the rentals for those weeks on Redweek for the ONE BEDROOMS range from $3500-$7000+. It’s DC points value is 325 points less than the Aruba Surf Club 2 bedroom and it’s only a 41000 less in cost. The one bedrooms would not be large enough for my family, but having those weeks accessible is nice.


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## Fasttr (Jul 16, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> I was strictly a rent and don’t add on any more MF’s type of guy. However, you do get to a point that you wish you could do what needed to be done when you’re ready. Once I saw a unit available at night online, but I couldn’t just make the reservation. It was gone when I looked the next morning and it never came back. Plus, you have to be sure you don’t rent too many points because you can’t use 50 extra points. That becomes wasted dollars. Over time that adds up.


If you know you desire more points annually, and have chosen to rent them vs buy them as a choice on how to use the system, its easier to commit to renting whatever number of points you feel you will need at the beginning of year you plan to book them.  Look at it this way, if you owned them, you would have them in your account anyway, and you paid a large upfront price for the privilege, plus you paid the MF's on those points as well, so the dollar outlay already occurred.  On the rental side, If you are reasonably sure you will use them, then just rent the full amount of points you feel you will need for the year well ahead, so they are in your account, ready to be used when you want to use them without the stress of renting points at the last minute for every individual transaction you decide to make.  If you end up with a few excess points, so be it.  It takes an awful lot of wasted 50 points here and 100 points  there at a rental fee of 60 cents each to offset purchasing them (even at $5-$6 a point in a hybrid deal plus the 55 cents a point maintenance fees).  

Not trying to convince you to continue with your point rental thoughts, but just saying it takes a lot of lost 50 point blocks to offset a $50K upfront purchase if one of your primary arguments is simply not having the points in your account when you need them.


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## StevenTing (Jul 16, 2018)

After reading the thread, my initial thought is to go through with the purchase.  It seems to check all of the boxes.  2 weeks in desirable locations.  Flexibility with points.  Savings on Maintenance fees vs. Points.  It's better than a pure points purchase as it's the equivalent of buying at $2.60 per point before all fees.  You have the added bonus of MF's paid for the first year and a status upgrade.  If you decided to sell the weeks, it looks like there's still some value there as well.

My only suggestion is to not get caught up in chasing status.  Presidential is still great.  Chairman is nice but I don't think it should be the reason to purchase more.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> This is probably the best high points acquisition offer I can remember reading about on here.  As I was thinking about your buy-in cost, it reminded me of the seasonal offer to buy 5000 points and how Marriott would enroll 3(?) or more post-2010 weeks.  I wonder if they would consider this level of purchase sufficient to do the same thing vs a pure points purchase.
> 
> Basically if one was willing to fund a $50K purchase this would be a way to maximize points across the board for an owner of 3 or more weeks.  While I'm still looking for specific MOC winter fixed weeks, this offer does offer an alternative at a similar price point with the freedom of points if needed.



I share this assessment. It sounds like a great deal, and if we had not, like you, embarked on a slightly different plan for adding to our ownership, I would be interested in an approach like this.

I think our chosen approach should result in a similar per point cost as the OP, when all is said and done - assuming all of the pieces of our puzzle eventually fall into place. We came close recently, but we were still short one puzzle piece. Our plan is:

1) Acquire two EOY Odd external resale units at Maui Ocean Club
2) Take advantage of their seasonal "amnesty" offer to buy 3000 points to enroll the two EOY weeks

Added to our current 3375 points (1750 Trust and 1625 enrolled), we would wind up with between 11,000 and 13,000 total points (depending on which EOY weeks we acquire), but only 4750 of those would be the expensive Trust points. Most of the time I think we would use at least one if not both of the Maui weeks, but we would also have the option to convert to points and travel in an even year, change unit size/view, etc.

We bought the first EOY Odd week earlier this year, but do not yet have the second one. That's the missing piece of the puzzle. When they launched the current ongoing "amnesty" promotion in late May, we evaluated the numbers, but it didn't make sense yet since we would be wasting half of the enrollment power of the 3000 point purchase. Here's what our numbers would have looked like:

Cost of already-owned EOY Odd 2BR OV MOC week - $8000 - point value if enrolled 5825 EOY (equal to 2912 EY)
Cost of 3000 points with no PlusPoints incentive or Rewards Points incentive ($11.16/pt) - $33,480
So, total cost of $41,480 for 5912 EY-equivalent points, or a per point cost of $7.02/pt. Not bad, but not good enough.

We tried to buy an EOY Odd 1BR OF in April for $6000, but the seller declined and decided to keep their unit. That unit would have been worth 4175 points EOY (2088 EY-equivalent). Had that deal worked, and had we been closed by the May 15 cutoff for the current amnesty offer (questionable if we would have been done by that point, anyway), our total cost of the two EOY weeks and the 3000 points would have been $47,480 for 8000 total EY-equivalent points, or $5.94/point. Our maintenance fee cost for that combination would have averaged out to about $0.46/point.

So, we'll keep looking for another EOY Odd week (either 1BR OF, 2BR OV/OF, or 2BR OF Napili) and hope there is a 2019 amnesty offer. The point price will go up over the next 12 months, but no way I'm going to buy 3000 trust points just to enroll one EOY week. If we could get lucky and find an EOY Odd 2BR OF Napili for about $15K as some TUGgers have been able to do, then our cost per point would drop to $5.65/point for 9650 EY-equivalent points assuming there is a 2019 amnesty offer. (Probably will cost a little more than that, actually, since the price of the 3000 points will go up a little over the next year). Maintenance fee for that option would be about $0.40/point.

To your point though, if they would allow a purchase from Marriott of an Aruba week worth $35K or so to also enroll two EOY external weeks, that could be an even better deal than buying the 3000 Trust points. To the OP, who are you dealing with? A local sales office somewhere or the central telesales operation in Orlando?


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> If you know you desire more points annually, and have chosen to rent them vs buy them as a choice on how to use the system, its easier to commit to renting whatever number of points you feel you will need at the beginning of year you plan to book them.  Look at it this way, if you owned them, you would have them in your account anyway, and you paid a large upfront price for the privilege, plus you paid the MF's on those points as well, so the dollar outlay already occurred.  On the rental side, If you are reasonably sure you will use them, then just rent the full amount of points you feel you will need for the year well ahead, so they are in your account, ready to be used when you want to use them without the stress of renting points at the last minute for every individual transaction you decide to make.  If you end up with a few excess points, so be it.  It takes an awful lot of wasted 50 points here and 100 points  there at a rental fee of 60 cents each to offset purchasing them (even at $5-$6 a point in a hybrid deal plus the 55 cents a point maintenance fees).
> 
> Not trying to convince you to continue with your point rental thoughts, but just saying it takes a lot of lost 50 point blocks to offset a $50K upfront purchase if one of your primary arguments is simply not having the points in your account when you need them.




The other consideration with renting points well in advance of actually needing them is the inability to bank/borrow those points. If plans evolve/change from when the points were initially rented, you are stuck with finding a use in that same use year. With owned points, you can say "C'est La Vie", cancel and just bank them to next year. If outside of 60 days, you have full use of the points. With rented points, if what caused the cancellation/change of plans also prevents you from making a replacement reservation in that use year, you could lose the total amount of rented points, not just some small residual amount. Purely from a dollars and cents standpoint, it would certainly take a lot of cancellations and potentially lost points to offset the up-front purchase cost, but there is a certain stress/hassle/inconvenience factor that comes with this specific limitation of rented points that each potential buyer needs to assess their willingness to deal with.

Our rental approach is sort of a middle ground between renting well in advance for the year ahead and waiting until we see a reservation we want. (Although we have done the latter once or twice for trips we decided to do only after we saw availability, but those were short weekend bookings where we were confident we could find an alternative use for 500-1000 points if the availability disappeared before we could get the points in our account.) For our 2019 trip to Hawaii, we needed to rent some points to book the week on Kauai, so we rented them a few weeks before the reservation window opened. Not really well in advance or last minute, but we rented them for a specific trip/purpose when we were confident availability would be there if we reserved at reservation window opening.

Until or unless we eventually get the owned points we think we need as outlined in my post just above, we'll continue to willingly use rented points to supplement what we own. Even then, if we were to use both of the EOY Maui weeks that we hope to eventually own, there will probably be years that our other owned points may not be enough for our needs, so we'll likely still be in the rental market.

The reality is, as long as we have the point rental option for traveling to other MVC properties, our main reasoning for buying the points needed to enroll a couple EOY external Maui weeks is to get to at least Executive level and to give us the flexibility to reconfigure those Maui weeks as our needs evolve from trip-to-trip and over time. With the unenrolled weeks, we're basically limited to exactly what we own, but if enrolled, we can opt in some years to elect the week and then choose to go in an even year instead of odd, book a 1BR instead of a 2BR, etc. So by buying a few of Marriott's expensive points, we get to a higher owner level, get the flexibility to reconfigure our owned week(s) as we need to, and as a bonus, we get a few more owned points to play with and reduce our need to rent points.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> I share this assessment. It sounds like a great deal, and if we had not, like you, embarked on a slightly different plan for adding to our ownership, I would be interested in an approach like this.
> 
> I think our chosen approach should result in a similar per point cost as the OP, when all is said and done - assuming all of the pieces of our puzzle eventually fall into place. We came close recently, but we were still short one puzzle piece. Our plan is:
> 
> ...



JIMinNC, 

I wish you luck in your pursuit of that Maui unit.  I am dealing with the sales team located out of the Utah corporate offices. This deal has seemingly involved not only my initial salesman but the sales manager and project director.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> After reading the thread, my initial thought is to go through with the purchase.  It seems to check all of the boxes.  2 weeks in desirable locations.  Flexibility with points.  Savings on Maintenance fees vs. Points.  It's better than a pure points purchase as it's the equivalent of buying at $2.60 per point before all fees.  You have the added bonus of MF's paid for the first year and a status upgrade.  If you decided to sell the weeks, it looks like there's still some value there as well.
> 
> My only suggestion is to not get caught up in chasing status.  Presidential is still great.  Chairman is nice but I don't think it should be the reason to purchase more.



Thanks Steve for your thoughts. You’re correct, one shouldn’t chase after the loyalty tiers.


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## Steve Fatula (Jul 16, 2018)

StevenTing said:


> My only suggestion is to not get caught up in chasing status.  Presidential is still great.  Chairman is nice but I don't think it should be the reason to purchase more.



While I agree the OP shouldn't chase tiers due to the huge outlay of his deal, I disagree for us at least. We definitely made our last and final purchase with the main goal of higher ownership level. The benefits to that outweighed the money we spent. We find immense value in several of the benefits. It's not for everyone, but, it is for some. We use and will continue to use those benefits for a long time on virtually every MVCI reservation. Adding 5 days to our Desert Springs weeks stays, for example, during red season for 780 points (~$400 MF) is quite a deal, we do not like only 7 day trips. Amongst the many other benefits we take advantage of regularly. I consider them an essential part of our purchase.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> JIMinNC,
> 
> I wish you luck in your pursuit of that Maui unit.  I am dealing with the sales team located out of the Utah corporate offices. This deal has seemingly involved not only my initial salesman but the sales manager and project director.



I was under the impression the telesales operation was in Orlando and that Utah was the Owner Services call center. Is that not correct? I know the person that I communicated with last year about resale units was a Sales Executive with Central Sales in Orlando and was under the impression that she could handle selling the resale units or points.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> I was under the impression the telesales operation was in Orlando and that Utah was the Owner Services call center. Is that not correct? I know the person that I communicated with last year about resale units was a Sales Executive with Central Sales in Orlando and was under the impression that she could handle selling the resale units or points.



They do have a sales office in Utah. The call is from a Utah number that I call Utah area code numbers for the office and the cell phone. Their office address is a Utah address.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> They do have a sales office in Utah. The call is from a Utah number that I call Utah area code numbers for the office and the cell phone. Their office address is a Utah address.



That's interesting. They must have central sales operations in both places then, because the two times I've dealt with central sales people during inquiries, those folks were in Orlando at the same 6649 Westwood Blvd, suite 500 location as Marriott Vacations Worldwide's corporate headquarters. Maybe the difference is I got to them through the Marriott Resales weeks resales division, which I think has always been Orlando-based.


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## Fasttr (Jul 16, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> They do have a sales office in Utah. The call is from a Utah number that I call Utah area code numbers for the office and the cell phone. Their office address is a Utah address.





JIMinNC said:


> That's interesting. They must have central sales operations in both places then, because the two times I've dealt with central sales people during inquiries, those folks were in Orlando at the same 6649 Westwood Blvd, suite 500 location as Marriott Vacations Worldwide's corporate headquarters. Maybe the difference is I got to them through the Marriott Resales weeks resales division, which I think has always been Orlando-based.



I had a very good VOA (in Utah) who helped me out on a weird issue with my account a few years back.  He was very helpful and provided his email address should I ever need to reach out again.  About a year or so ago, I reached out again and he had transitioned into Sales for MVC.  In his sig line of his email it says....

Marriott Vacation Club International – Corporate Direct Sales (West)
310 Bearcat Dr.
Salt Lake City, UT 84115


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## TXTortoise (Jul 16, 2018)

Utah is also where my primary sales contact is, referred by a great rep I got when going in on the President’ line.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Jul 16, 2018)

I may be in the minority, but My issue with this is that if you are buying weeks (e.g. in Aruba) not to use them, but rather in order to rent them out on Redweek etc, while I am all for capitalism, you are taking inventory away from MVCI owners who may actually wish to use their points to stay at a property but are often shut out... time and time again I’ve seen weeks owners book their weeks but have no intention of using the week and rather rent out the weeks online instead.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I may be in the minority, but My issue with this is that if you are buying weeks (e.g. in Aruba) not to use them, but rather in order to rent them out on Redweek etc, while I am all for capitalism, you are taking inventory away from MVCI owners who may actually wish to use their points to stay at a property but are often shut out... time and time again I’ve seen weeks owners book their weeks but have no intention of using the week and rather rent out the weeks online instead.



I agree 100% with this, but I didn't get the impression the OP was buying the Aruba week to rent, but in fact his intent was to use it or convert to points to use for other stays. He did say rental on Redweek could be attractive, but I got the impression that was just an alternative use that could be employed in some years if the use or points conversion options didn't meet their needs that year. I see nothing wrong with renting an owned week in such a situation, but do agree with you that the mega-renters who buy up and reserve weeks just to rent make it difficult for owners who want to use their week. I do wish MVC could come up with a way to preserve an owner's right to rent from time to time as the need arises, but stop the mega-renters from monopolizing certain inventory in Maui and Aruba and maybe some other places.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

Fasttr said:


> I had a very good VOA (in Utah) who helped me out on a weird issue with my account a few years back.  He was very helpful and provided his email address should I ever need to reach out again.  About a year or so ago, I reached out again and he had transitioned into Sales for MVC.  In his sig line of his email it says....
> Marriott Vacation Club International – Corporate Direct Sales (West)
> 310 Bearcat Dr.
> Salt Lake City, UT 84115



The fact that the sig line says "Corporate Direct Sales (West)" does imply that there are multiple Direct Sales offices. My contact in Orlando's sig line was --  "Central Direct Sales - Marriott Vacation Club Direct"


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I may be in the minority, but My issue with this is that if you are buying weeks (e.g. in Aruba) not to use them, but rather in order to rent them out on Redweek etc, while I am all for capitalism, you are taking inventory away from MVCI owners who may actually wish to use their points to stay at a property but are often shut out... time and time again I’ve seen weeks owners book their weeks but have no intention of using the week and rather rent out the weeks online instead.



I recognize your concern. However, I never said I wouldn’t stay there in fact, I’ve stated that I would have 3 desirable places I could stay. Two things come to mind is that I will definitely be converting to DC points. At that time, Marriott willbeable to give it to points owners, II, or rent them. My purpose for buying is not to rent but to provide myself with ultimate flexibility which includes possibly renting. 

Your concern equates to the neighbor being concerned about what his neighbor does with his house. The owner of the house can rent his home or use his home and not a soul can say a thing about it. There are some people who have paid a great deal of money for several weeks, we may not like it but we must respect their right to rent it should they so desire.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Jul 16, 2018)

I understand what you are saying but respectfully disagree.  While not exactly akin to your situation, as Jim stated, MVCI needs to control those owners who have bought up many weeks in popular places such as Aruba and Hawaii for the _sole purpose_ of renting the weeks out - this in turn limits inventory for owners (including yourself) who may wish to stay at a property during a peak period.  This is an unfortunate problem with the system which is not going to be fixed anytime soon.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> The fact that the sig line says "Corporate Direct Sales (West)" does imply that there are multiple Direct Sales offices. My contact in Orlando's sig line was --  "Central Direct Sales - Marriott Vacation Club Direct"



That’s the same address my folks have in Utah.


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## csalter2 (Jul 16, 2018)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I understand what you are saying but respectfully disagree.  While not exactly akin to your situation, as Jim stated, MVCI needs to control those owners who have bought up many weeks in popular places such as Aruba and Hawaii for the _sole purpose_ of renting the weeks out - this in turn limits inventory for owners (including yourself) who may wish to stay at a property during a peak period.  This is an unfortunate problem with the system which is not going to be fixed anytime soon.



I totally get it and it’s not fair. The solution is not an easy one.


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## JIMinNC (Jul 16, 2018)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> I understand what you are saying but respectfully disagree.  While not exactly akin to your situation, as Jim stated, MVCI needs to control those owners who have bought up many weeks in popular places such as Aruba and Hawaii for the _sole purpose_ of renting the weeks out - this in turn limits inventory for owners (including yourself) who may wish to stay at a property during a peak period.  This is an unfortunate problem with the system which is not going to be fixed anytime soon.



That is actually an advantage of booking with DC points - you are no longer competing with the mega-renters for inventory. While it is possible for someone to book a unit with DC points and then rent it out, the cost and economics of the points product makes that unattractive for the mega renters. That obviously doesn't help the unenrolled legacy owner who just wants to book their Aruba or Maui week, but the DC system is much less subject to abuse for commercial purposes.


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## Fasttr (Jul 23, 2018)

So @csalter2, did you end up doing this deal?


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## csalter2 (Jul 23, 2018)

Yes. I’m going to take the plunge! The paperwork was sent to my house, but I’ve been on vacation. It’ll be there when I return tomorrow. I’m taking Aruba Surf Club 2 bedroom platinum and Ocean Pointe 2 bedroom platinum. I’m excited. I think it’s a good deal.


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