# Wow. I am disgusted!!



## newbietimesharesalesman

Greetings "good" people!

You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...

After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.

Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...

I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...

WHY????

Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????

From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...

In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...  

Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:

STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.

(ignorant and rude comment removed)

I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.

I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.

And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.

JUST SAY NO.


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## beanb41

When are you guys going to stop the hard pressure sell you put on attendees to buy your product? It is your hard sell that give timeshare the reputation and fear factor it has.
If the dinner is worth it I'll sit through the presentation. You could save your self some time by qualifying your attendees first. A few simple questions would do that but you ask them. It may be worth giving away the dinner vouchers at the outset and save yourself the heartache, but you never ask the qualifying questions.


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## Conan

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST.



When I'm being HONEST about timeshares, I say that owning a timeshare is worthwhile for someone who's willing to plan about a year ahead and wants to vacation in a comfortable condo at an all-in cost of about $100/night. Of course my $100/night figure assumes buying in the resale market at about 1/20th of the developer's price.

I explain there's no such thing as a 'new' timeshare anyway, and if you pay the developer's price the $100/night figure becomes $200/night so BUY RESALE.


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## tombo

Hey honest, kind, smart, hard working sales person. Calling people fat, cheap,greedy and other names doesn't seem to be asking for good Karma. Rather than asking niceley you are scolding everyone. Some people on TUG actually buy from the developer although I don't understand why.

If you want to talk about GREED, why are you selling something that you admit is almost worthless when they walk out the door? You know that they can buy exactly what you are selling on e-bay for 25% of the price you are asking. The reason you are so proud of your closing ratio is because you are paid 100% in commissions. GREED? Greed is selling something that is a bad deal for your customer just so you can make money. Greed is being mad when people decide not to buy from you when you know that they made the right decision for themselves. Greed is knowing that you will lower the sales price if they say no or negotiate, but you don't tell them that you discount prices unless you have to because it will lower your commission. Greed is selling someone something that you know is way overpriced just so you can make some money.

I quit going to presentations years ago but I would go to yours and sit with you with my stopwatch running for 90 minutes until I got my gift just because of your bad attitude. While you are getting mad, how about getting mad at the people who repeatedly beg us to come to these presentations. Calls to the room day after day, harrassed on the street, bothered on the beach and by the pool by these kind people who just want you to attend an informal presentation with NO OBLIGATION TO BUY ANYTHING! You tell them that you own several weeks (all purchased resale) and that you would never buy retail. They still insist that you come, often raising the dollars or gifts  offered until you do agree. You ask us to have some pride and not show up for the freebies. Heres a novel idea, why don't you get a sales job in an industry that doesn't have to bribe customers to listen to the sales pitch about what it is selling.  How about getting a job in an industry you could be proud of?  

I shop at Wal-mart, Sears, buy timeshares on e-bay, etc daily, weekly, or yearly. I shop at those and many more places because I want to, not because I was bribed to. Sitting through 3 hours of lies is so miserable that I won't do it for a $125 cash bribe. If you didn't offer bribes you wouldn't have any customers to make presentations to 3 times a day because nobody wants to sit through the 2 to 3 hours of high pressure lies and arm twisting that is a timeshare presentation. Be glad when people that don't want to buy come for the freebies, because every now and then you will get one to buy against their better judgement. I assure you that it will never be me buying retail. If you are truly HONEST, you will admit that you would never pay full retail for one of whatever it is you are selling either.


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## theo

*One generalization does not fit all...*



newbietimesharesalesman said:


> You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything. .....JUST SAY NO.



An interesting generalization, BUT....

In my own 25+ years of timeshare ownership, I have *never* attended a developer presentation. Not once. I will never do so either. My time is *much* too valuable to me to ever waste one moment of it listening to a sales pitch for a paltry few dollars, cheap trinkets, or meal vouchers.

I'm sure that there are people who would walk across hot coals for a trip to the "gift table". However, I'm much less sure that such people actually constitute a statistical majority.


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## BocaBum99

As with most timeshare presentations, something doesn't add up.  I pretty much guarantee if we got the full truth from our timeshare salesman that he IS lying in just his first post.  His math just doesn't work.  

The average close rate for timeshares is in the 10-20% rate across the entire sales line.  Superstars are in the 20-30%.  Any timeshare salesman with a 39% close rate is making several hundred thousand dollars (if not over $1M depending on resort) per year and DOES NOT CARE about tour guests who only attend timeshare presentations for the free gifts.  After all, it IS his job to convert them from non buyers into buyers.  He is only working 5 hours per day, getting the first tours that come in every day.  May only do one presentation if he closes the first one in the day.

Let me clue you in, ALL tour guests are there ONLY for the free gift and the resort developer and sales guy knows it.  Your sales training goes over this in detail.  

My guess is you are just another casualty of the developer sales and marketing model.  You are bitter at your lack of success and have now turned to blaming the client for your lack of sales success.  In every tour, there are 2 sales motions going on.  Your trying to sell the guests and they are trying to sell you.  Sounds like your tour guests are winning more than their fare share.  You should probably consider going back to art.


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## EAM

The current system of selling timeshares seems to bring out the worst in people, customers and sales persons alike.  I can sense that you are quite angry and frustrated with the system.  If the product is good, it should sell itself, and it does so at resale prices.  

Let me tell you why I have gone to sales presentations with no intention of buying:

1.  I was invited to an "owner's update" and really thought it would be an educational presentation about what was new.
2.  I was asked to complete a brief survey and told would receive a gift for a few minutes of my time.
3.  The person who gave me my parking pass would not take "no" for an answer, or someone kept calling me, and I finally gave in.

May I suggest you go to work for a different company?  For example, DVC does not coerce or bribe or trick people in order to get them to come to their sales presentations.  As far as I know, all they give out are Fastpasses and ice cream.   Your mental health, integrity and honor are at stake.  I realize that you may have to stay in your current job until the economy picks up a bit, but in the meantime, just be brief and polite with those who are just there for the gifts, so that you can get on to the next ones who might really want to buy from you.   Use the influence and skills of persuasion that you have for the good of all stakeholders, sales, management, potential owners, current owners, etc.


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## AwayWeGo

*Au Contraire, Mon Frère.*




newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.


Not just exactly. 

It was some guy in the visitor information booth telling us we really ought to take this wonderful free tour of an outstanding new luxury resort -- & to reward us for signing up we'll get a nice breakfast or lunch _plus_ a valuable gift.  Absolutely _no_ obligation. 

We say, "No thanks.  We're already set for life on timeshares -- wouldn't be right to take up their time when we're not interested in any more."

Guy behind the counter says, "No problem.  They don't care about that.  They know that nobody signing up ever goes in with the intention of buying anything.  It truly is no obligation.  You see the resort, you're impressed with how nice it is, you tell your friends what a great place you saw, & the resort benefits from word of mouth.   So, please, sign up & enjoy yourself.  I don't care that you're not buying.  I want you to go.  No obligation." 

We say, "OK."  We show up.  We take the tour.  We listen to the presentation.  We pay attention. 

At the moment of truth, we say _No Thanks_.  We wait patiently as the Quality Control Representative we've been turned over to tries to sell us Try Before You Buy.  We say _No Thanks_ again. 

Eventually your timeshare sellers turn us loose & we head over to the freebies window -- a half-day shot on that 90- to 120-minute resort tour. 

So -- no.  It wasn't greed that brought us in.  It was _your_ marketing department setting up it's own particular twist on the fast-talking, carnival barker come-on designed to appeal to what you perceive as the mark's greed. 

No obligation, my foot.  The whole biz. plan is a fast shuffle, _hurry-hurry-hurry,_ step right up, buy _now-now-now_ scheme carried out via arm-twisting, guilt-tripping, truth-stretching, psychologically manipulative high-pressure sales pitches. 

Why am I there wasting your time if I have no intention of buying ? 

Because _your_ marketing department put bigtime professional effort into luring me in -- & that's on you & on your timeshare company, not on me or on any of the other regular walking-around vacationers you manage to inveigle using the old razzle-dazzle. 

You've inadvertently revealed much about yourself.  From the self portrait you've put forward here, I can only imagine that your prior life as an artist mainly featured Elvis on black velvet.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## T_R_Oglodyte

BocaBum99 said:


> As with most timeshare presentations, something doesn't add up.  I pretty much guarantee if we got the full truth from our timeshare salesman that he IS lying in just his first post.  His math just doesn't work.



LOL - Boca.  If he's closing 39% of his sales, then he's selling to a lot of people who signed up while emphatically telling the contact that they had no intention of buying and were only attending for the gift!!

If he's going to insist that tours only be offered to people who aren't there just for the gifts he's going to see a huge drop in income!!!

********

In my sales work, I've always considered marketing to be the process of generating sales opportunities, with sales being the process of converting those opportunities into contracts. It's a helpful distinction because it's silly to rag on the sales force when sales targets aren't being met if the problem is that marketing is delivering inferior opportunities.

Thus, our OP is having a problem with the leads being given to him, *and he's blaming his sales prospects for not being what he wants them to be!!!*  The problem isn't with his prospects; it's with the marketing program that is delivering those prospects to him.

*****

Of course, if his product is as fine as he advertises it to be and we savvy TUG prospects aren't buying it, well then doesn't it logically follow that *he hasn't done a good job of explaining the benefits to us??*

Which, of course, brings forward one of the basic principles of sales: *Failure of the dummy to understand is never the fault of the dummy.* If we dummies aren't understanding his pitch, it's not our fault.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

AwayWeGo said:


> From the self portrait you've put forward here, I can only imagine that your prior life as an artist mainly featured Elvis on black velvet.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



And here I was thinking he might be the genius behind dogs playing poker!!!


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## UWSurfer

In my most recent stay in Orlando I just returned from yesterday, the marking department representative called me on the phone the 2nd day we were there going on & on about what a valued memeber I am, and that they have all sorts of gifts and goodies for me and I need to come to the preview center to receive these.

My wife had to stay home this trip due to a last minute work issue, and I immediately told the rep that my wife was absent this trip.  The voice changed and I was told "oh she'd need to be there and we can't have you, good bye. "   That was the last I heard from anyone.   So much for being a valued member.  

I leave today for Las Vegas staying at the same brand where I own, exchanging in with RCI points.  I'm there for work, again without my wife and I'm betting I get another inquiry while I'm there this week.

When I was in sales I was told it was a numbers game and you simply had to get through the "x" number of no's in order to get to the yes.   I also had to get my own prospects.   I was trained in various closing approaches, test closes and the like (the art you mention perhaps) and was honest too.  After several years I realized that sales was not a profession I enjoyed or wanted to stay in. 

As has already been mentioned, the method in which your industry attracts and places prospects in front of you is in large part the reason you are so frustrated.   Good for you for being honest in a game of liars poker.  Just recognize the game you are in.


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## timeos2

*Do it with class and you'll be treated fairly.*



newbietimesharesalesman said:


> JUST SAY NO.



That is correct. But you make it sound like we're actively seeking these gifts out. While there are afew that do that most are badgered into attendance when it's really the LAST thing they want to deal with on vacation. How are they dragged there? 

- No parking pass unless you sign up for "update"
- cart trip to unit where obnoxious weasel won't leave your unit until you sign up
- calls all hours of the day & night to attend

and much more. 

So let you & your bosses stop the pressure and stop blaming the victos of this process and your life (and ours) will be much better for it. If you are handed reluctant and non-purchasing prospects it is the result of your procedures more times than the greed of the public. Sorry, no sympathy for you here.


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## bruwery

To the O.P.:

Somebody should slap your parents for raising a whiny, spoiled brat.

What a shame that you had to "get a real job".  I feel so bad that you're "exhausted" from having to get up and go to work every day.  What a pity.

It just isn't fair that you have to get up in the morning and earn a living like the rest of the world.  After all, you're special - you're an artist!!  You're entitled to sleep until noon every day, spend 2o minutes throwing some random splotches of paint on a piece of canvas, and make up some story about how it actually represents something.

Then, burn a doobie and belittle as intellectually inferior any person who looks at the resultant eyesore and says "Umm, I don't get it".   

Oh, I'm sorry - did I generalize?  How unfair of me.

I don't go to timeshare presentations, but that doesn't seem to stop your people from harassing me.

One question:  Why do say in your post that it's a 3 hour presentation?  The people out front told me it would only take an hour...


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## Numismatist

It is unfortunate that there is such a disconnect between what is presented and the reality of what is purchased; however, it seems likely that there are abuses on both sides of the equation here.

The remedy to fix both sides of the abuse would be to bridge the disconnect between the 'selling' and the 'purchase'.

Being a timeshare salesman and a member here, you are in a position to help us all understand why there is such a disconnect.

Do you want to cut through the emotion and assist us?

Cheers!


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## calgarygary

Numismatist said:


> It is unfortunate that there is such a disconnect between what is presented and the reality of what is purchased; however, it seems likely that there are abuses on both sides of the equation here.
> 
> The remedy to fix both sides of the abuse would be to bridge the disconnect between the 'selling' and the 'purchase'.
> 
> Being a timeshare salesman and a member here, you are in a position to help us all understand why there is such a disconnect.
> 
> Do you want to cut through the emotion and assist us?
> 
> Cheers!



I don't think you will find too many on here interested in assistance from a salesperson for a developer purchase.


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## ondeadlin

I'm really thinking this post might be a Tugger having fun with us.


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## DebBrown

Well... I'm sure you feel better for getting that off your chest.  I sure wouldn't want your job.  I can imagine how frustrating and demeaning it is.

Generally, I do not go to presentations.  The only exception is a new resort where I really want to see the unit and layout.  I think you will find that most of us here don't want to waste our time or yours.

Maybe its time you looked into another line of work?

Deb


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## BocaBum99

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> LOL - Boca.  If he's closing 39% of his sales, then he's selling to a lot of people who signed up while emphatically telling the contact that they had no intention of buying and were only attending for the gift!!



If he's closing 39%, he's keeping his mouth shut and waking up every day hoping that nobody else figures out the gold mine he has found.  He would be fighting tooth and nail to keep the current model as it is.  He would be wondering how life got so easy.

Top timeshare salesmen don't lie, they pretend to be a bit dim and are great emotional manipulators.  Their dimness gives them plausible deniability regarding their lies.  They are very very good at what they do.


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## BevL

I agree with some of the other posters.  Your beef isn't with the people who come in for free stuff, or shouldn't be.  You should be complaining to to your company who lure prospects in with promises of free stuff by attending a "tour".

Have your front line people pre-qualify your prospects by telling it like it is.  Something along the lines of: "If you come sit through a two to three hour timeshare sales presentation where you will be pressured to buy something that will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, we'll give you two tickets to Disneyworld."  You likely won't get too many people showing up for the free stuff.  Of course, you likely won't have many people showing up at all.

I'm glad you've vented, that's good for a person once in a while.  But expect no sympathy here.


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## ROCKJenkins

*I think your preaching to the wrong congregation*

The majority of tug members are saying the same thing you are saying.  Timeshares are not an investment.  Their hard to rent.....their hard to sell  Therefore say No No No and No again to an offer to go to a Presentation.  And we say that everyday..... over and over and over again to our friends and guest here on Tugs.   But that's not what you really want people to say....."YOU WANT THEM TO SAY YES!"......Selling is getting people to say Yes.
But brother you sound like your in hell.  Therefore we would like to help you over and over again by saying to you that for the sake of your family you should also say (NO)-more an find your-self another line of work.

We love you man,

Rock


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## ecwinch

Wow - I am pleasantly surprised by how restrained the responses are.

I think BevL and others summed it up best.

The OP is really preaching to the choir. He needs to ask those questions of his own organization - i.e. why do we not pre-qualify the prospects better, maintain margins by eliminating freebies and promoting attempts.

The answer is fairly obvious, the thrive on the uneducated and unsuspecting consumer. But, they will eventually be forced to modify their model. 

I think most TUG members would welcome a more honest and informed sales model.


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## Kay H

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> Daddy had to get a real job. .  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.   To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> 
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> Odds are most of you are fat enough!!
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.    I have never told a lie on a presentation.   Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.



If you come across to the intended victims, er, clients in the manner you presented yourself here, it's amazing that you get 39% closing sales.  Your attitude toward people you do not know but prejudge that they are all fat and greedy is certainly not conducive to mastering a sale for an overpriced commodity.

Sounds like you need to find another job where your clients won't "disgust" you.  I don't know if you lie or not during your presentation or even if you were trained by an honest person, but most TS salesman not only stretch the truth, omit important info but outright lie.

 Knowing how you feel about a great group of people you have never met disgusts me.


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## Vacation Dude

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.



It sounds like you need a vacation, want to rent a week from me?

As far as your comment on the human race.....dude...look in the mirror!!!



tombo said:


> If you want to talk about GREED, why are you selling something that you admit is almost worthless when they walk out the door? You know that they can buy exactly what you are selling on e-bay for 25% of the price you are asking. The reason you are so proud of your closing ratio is because you are paid 100% in commissions. GREED? Greed is selling something that is a bad deal for your customer just so you can make money. Greed is being mad when people decide not to buy from you when you know that they made the right decision for themselves. Greed is knowing that you will lower the sales price if they say no or negotiate, but you don't tell them that you discount prices unless you have to because it will lower your commission. Greed is selling someone something that you know is way overpriced just so you can make some money.



Very well said  




bruwery said:


> To the O.P.:
> 
> Somebody should slap your parents for raising a whiny, spoiled brat.
> 
> What a shame that you had to "get a real job".  I feel so bad that you're "exhausted" from having to get up and go to work every day.  What a pity.
> 
> It just isn't fair that you have to get up in the morning and earn a living like the rest of the world.  After all, you're special - you're an artist!!  You're entitled to sleep until noon every day, spend 2o minutes throwing some random splotches of paint on a piece of canvas, and make up some story about how it actually represents something.



He is an artist alright....a RIPOFF Artist.


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## bnoble

Ah, nevermind.  Discretion is the better part of valor.


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## Keitht

I've only ever attended one timeshare presentation apart from the one we purchased at.  My excuse for the purchase from the developer is that it was the 1980's and sites like this didn't exist.  
We attended that second presentation purely for the freebies.  The sales guy knew, because we told him up-front.  Did I feel guilty?  Not one little bit.  We were invited with the promise of free Universal tickets and that's what we got. 
The benefit of making it clear from the outset is that they were just as keen for us to leave as we were.  So 90 minutes was all the time we spent there.


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## BocaBum99

bnoble said:


> The trick, for you, is to figure out who you definitely _will not sell_ as soon as you can, and move on from the deadwood to the tours who will qualify and perform.



That's the job for the marketing department.  The sales guy's job is to get the credit card deposit from the tour for any timeshare he has to offer.


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## BocaBum99

bnoble said:


> I have bad news for you.  My wife bills about 2-5x that, depending on the insurance carrier, which office she's in, etc.  In my side business, I bill my clients anywhere between 3x-9x that, depending on the client and the nature of the work.  Even after taxes and office overhead, you aren't even in the ballpark for getting my attention while I am on vacation.  Heck, you don't even hit the hourly compensation of my "day job."



You bill at $450 per hour in a side business?  That should be your primary business.  Only the highest paid attorney's get that.  Well, there was that Elliott Spitzer girl.....


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Keitht said:


> ... The benefit of making it clear from the outset is that they were just as keen for us to leave as we were.  So 90 minutes was all the time we spent there.



We're often out in less than 90 minutes.  My wife smiles at me when we're about 40 minutes into the presentation and the sales person starts "coughing" then excuses himself or herself to get a drink of water.  Funny how they never come back and soon we're shuffled off to a sales manager who asks tells our salesperson got called away to another appointment, asks a couple of questions, and points us to gifting.  Though often we do need to get through the "Quality Control Reviewer" who is really the person selling a Vacation Club to those who don't buy on the main sales floor.


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## bnoble

> That's the job for the marketing department. The sales guy's job is to get the credit card deposit from the tour for any timeshare he has to offer.


Sure, but the marketing department doesn't always do their job.  If you've got two tours scheduled, and one is deadwood, you may as well move to the next one as soon as you can---depending on how well the front-of-house works, you can even poach an extra tour this way each day.

It's not the top line.  It's the bottom.



> That should be your primary business.


For a variety of reasons, that's not necessarily practical.


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## rickandcindy23

Lining up prospects for a free gift and breakfast/lunch is the way they were presented from the very beginning of timeshare.  It's the only industry that sells this way, and I don't understand why the business model hasn't changed.  Cruises are sold by commercial and referral.  Airlines don't have to bribe people, either.  Hotels still make money from travelers.  But timeshare is sold by enticing people to the presentations.  Odd to me.   

Change the way timeshare is marketed, and that will increase the resale value.  People feel they were coerced and overcharged, partly due to the gift they received.  When they find out how much they could have saved by buying resale, they are just plain sick over it.  You might as well open the woodstove and just shove the cash in for burning.


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## DaveNV

Some of the replies in this thread make me thnk some of us have never seen or read a post by a troll before.  Obviously, the OP's intent was to get the masses riled up. And it sure sounds like he did what he meant to.

In the highly-unlikely off chance that he was on the level, and truly believes what he says, then I say Kudos to him for being able to sleep at night, in spite of the lies and misrepresentations he tells his purchasers.  Because as we all know, if he told the undisguised truth, most of his potential customers would walk away without spending a dime.  And the few who would buy from him knowing the whole truth are idiots who deserve everything they get.

If the OP truly was a man of honor, and if he was THAT good at sales, then he has a golden opportunity to turn the timeshare industry on its head by launching an honest timeshare sales company.  Imagine all the money he could make! 

Dave


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## BocaBum99

BMWguynw said:


> If the OP truly was a man of honor, and if he was THAT good at sales, then he has a golden opportunity to turn the timeshare industry on its head by launching an honest timeshare sales company.  Imagine all the money he could make!
> 
> Dave



That's like being bald with hair.  Or, blind with 20/20 vision.


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## Vacation Dude

BocaBum99 said:


> You bill at $450 per hour in a side business?  That should be your primary business.  Only the highest paid attorney's get that.  Well, there was that Elliott Spitzer girl.....



I agree...that is some serious money, perhaps "bnobel" is a book seller.

I also think the original poster (one post only) is too AFRAID to post here again.


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## M. Henley

*Resisting*

So far I have resisted the strong temptation...


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## SpikeMauler

This has to be a joke. If not, I feel sorry for the OP. McDonald's is always hiring if you can't take those BMW driving, greedy patsies,I mean customers,anymore.


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## applegirl

Odd how the O.P. hasn't chimed back in here.  I hope he finds a better line of work.  He sounds very unhappy.

Janna


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## DeniseM

My only comment is that I wish the OP's boss could see his post!


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## grest

Well, we have said no many times, many times, and in the case of the last 2 timeshare presentations...five years ago by now....we were begged to attend, and offered $100 in one case, and Dollywood tickets the other.  So we went along finally.  Then we told the sales person right away that we were not interested and would not be buying, upfront and personal.  We said we were begged to come and decided to do it for the money, or the tickets, and really didn't want to waste his time or ours, but that was the truth.  In the case of the money, it wasn't worth it at all.  In the case of the tickets, we met the nicest guy, and he just happened to be the salesman...he was honest and fun, and understood from the get-go that we wouldn't be buying, and in fact asked me some questions to which he didn't know the answer about timeshares.  
But we haven't done it since and don't plan to do it again...unless someone begs us and offers us something good....
Connie


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## djs

I have some friends who are going to a TS in Orlando tomorrow, they booked one of those "deals" that require attending a sales presentation (I think they're paying something like $300 for 7 nights in a 2B).

They have no intention of buying and plan on asking the sales person why they should buy when they can book a cheapie vacation for less than the annual MFs.

The sales people think absolutely nothing about scamming us and lying about the deal they're trying to sell us.....and we're supposed to feel bad about taking the freebies/true deals they offer us?  The ONLY person these sales people won't scam would be a family member that MIGHT will the week to them.


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## Egret1986

*OP, where are you??????*

I have never ever contacted anyone about going on a timeshare tour.  The last one four years ago was a survey with a parking pass being held hostage.  What was supposed to be a brief survey turned into four hours of my vacation time being wasted and in the end we were belittled and treated nastily by the whomever we got passed to after the salesman and the follow-up guy were done with us.  Nothing is worth this.  And as others have stated, if the resort is still in active sales, there are constant telephone calls.  

We don't answer the telephone when we are at the resort anymore.  We will not be fooled again about owner updates and surveys.

Please come back OP and address the issues we all have presented.


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## zazz

This smells like a troll.  But if it isn't, then call Diogenes because we may have found the only honest person in the timeshare business.

Its been a while since I attended a TS presentation since my vacations aren't long enough to afford me a 3-hour tour.  But looking back, I can say that by attending these presentations, I took up a time slot that could have been taken by a hard working person who could have been rooked by the sales weasels.  So I feel like I helped make the world a better place.


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## pammex

AwayWeGo said:


> Not just exactly.
> 
> It was some guy in the visitor information booth telling us we really ought to take this wonderful free tour of an outstanding new luxury resort -- & to reward us for signing up we'll get a nice breakfast or lunch _plus_ a valuable gift.  Absolutely _no_ obligation.
> 
> We say, "No thanks.  We're already set for life on timeshares -- wouldn't be right to take up their time when we're not interested in any more."
> 
> Guy behind the counter says, "No problem.  They don't care about that.  They know that nobody signing up ever goes in with the intention of buying anything.  It truly is no obligation.  You see the resort, you're impressed with how nice it is, you tell your friends what a great place you saw, & the resort benefits from word of mouth.   So, please, sign up & enjoy yourself.  I don't care that you're not buying.  I want you to go.  No obligation."
> 
> We say, "OK."  We show up.  We take the tour.  We listen to the presentation.  We pay attention.
> 
> At the moment of truth, we say _No Thanks_.  We wait patiently as the Quality Control Representative we've been turned over to tries to sell us Try Before You Buy.  We say _No Thanks_ again.
> 
> Eventually your timeshare sellers turn us loose & we head over to the freebies window -- a half-day shot on that 90- to 120-minute resort tour.
> 
> So -- no.  It wasn't greed that brought us in.  It was _your_ marketing department setting up it's own particular twist on the fast-talking, carnival barker come-on designed to appeal to what you perceive as the mark's greed.
> 
> No obligation, my foot.  The whole biz. plan is a fast shuffle, _hurry-hurry-hurry,_ step right up, buy _now-now-now_ scheme carried out via arm-twisting, guilt-tripping, truth-stretching, psychologically manipulative high-pressure sales pitches.
> 
> Why am I there wasting your time if I have no intention of buying ?
> 
> Because _your_ marketing department put bigtime professional effort into luring me in -- & that's on you & on your timeshare company, not on me or on any of the other regular walking-around vacationers you manage to inveigle using the old razzle-dazzle.
> 
> You've inadvertently revealed much about yourself.  From the self portrait you've put forward here, I can only imagine that your prior life as an artist mainly featured Elvis on black velvet.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Well there you go....that is why people go to timeshare presentations...... 

Do you tell this, your words to your prospects...<I have to say, that felt good. Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary. I was trained by an HONEST man in this business. Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat". But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA. I have never told a lie on a presentation. Is the program perfect? HELL NO! Does it depreciate? ABSOLUTELY. Try 60% as soon as you sign!!! Can I rent it out? GOOD LUCK! Can I sell it? WHO KNOWS!?! I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS. If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it. ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.>   hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

By the way my dear friend...you are in the wrong profession......I do attend some timeshare presentations and guess what I have bought developer and resale........so I might be one of those people  in for the freebies but then the very experienced timeshare sales guy may just hit a button and yup my weak moment or my just having to have what is not on resale...bam....a buyer.....

I happen to have befriended a timeshare salesperson, actually two.....both are good at what they do and though they say it is hard, they do like what they do....but you know what they are not angry and insulting people as you do..they know it is all a numbers game, have to see so many people to maybe make a hit ( buy).....This is sales...such is a salesman life.  ( Oh I also took the TUG Banner on a time share presentation at a resort and guess what they knew all about TUG and were happy to take a pic with the banner....).  Did I buy that day no....My timeshare buddies also know I buy resale,,,one even checked on one for me before my purchase and told me what not to pay resale etc....so not all have a chip on their shoulders like you!!!

I have also been offered a job in timeshare sales..hahahaha...:hysterical: :hysterical: it would not be meant for me, and trust me I love timeshares, but to sell them and such..no way jose!!!  I also know that timeshare salesman , the really good ones, make good money, real good money for what they do...so you know what...stop your silly whining, don't look for our sympathy and get on with something you excel in...I do not think you have found your niche....and where do you sell for? cause based on your anger and attitude I would never buy from you.....I am positive your anger must come shining right on thru......did you tell your boss you were posting this?  I bet not, but keep something in mind, most of the bosses and such know all about TUG..........

I do wish you the best but first I would take a good long look in the mirror and adjust my attitude.....

Another reminder, most own timeshares on TUG and well we do contribute I am sure in some way to your salary/commission via our MF's, stays at the resorts, etc........May we never meet...I really dislike whiners, who are all in it for themselves...:ignore:


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## pammex

zazz said:


> This smells like a troll.  But if it isn't, then call Diogenes because we may have found the only honest person in the timeshare business.
> 
> Its been a while since I attended a TS presentation since my vacations aren't long enough to afford me a 3-hour tour.  But looking back, I can say that by attending these presentations, I took up a time slot that could have been taken by a hard working person who could have been rooked by the sales weasels.  So I feel like I helped make the world a better place.



I think you might be right...wish I read your post before wasting my time typing.....whine...my fingers hurt from responding


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## zazz

pammex said:


> I think you might be right...wish I read your post before wasting my time typing.....whine...my fingers hurt from responding



You vented.  Never a bad thing.

I am actually surprised that real TS salespeople don't post here to complain that helping a new owner rescind a purchase took food out of his children's mouths or some such nonsense.


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## Jollyhols

Well, this has made me chuckle.  Newbietimeshare salesman is obviously trying to wind everyone up and has succeeded! 

My experience is more or less the same as AwayWeGo's.  I have only attended a couple of presentations (invited by persuasion both times) and bought at one of them.  Yes, were were definitely lied to (at the first one, Westgate, not the second, Marriott) but I won't go through all that again.  Oh and last year I couldn't resist attending a Disney presentation but there were no freebies for that one - I just wanted to see their new building and to be honest, would have bought one if only I could sell my existing timeshare property first.  The salesman was actually quite nice and seemed to respond in a professional, non-irritating manner and I was impressed that he sent a postcard which arrived home before we did.

I just wish there would be a longer cooling-off period, or at least a buy-back scheme.  That's all I would ask. Then my timeshare company could have my unit back in a flash.  Actually I'm not sure why they don't want it - they said it was worth $62,000-odd just a couple of years' ago - I'd be happy to let them have it back at a fraction of that!


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## AwayWeGo

*Were Their Lips Moving When They Said That ?*




Jollyhols said:


> I'm not sure why they don't want it - they said it was worth $62,000-odd just a couple of years' ago - I'd be happy to let them have it back at a fraction of that!


Any chance they were fibbing about that $62*,*000 ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bogey21

I tend to agree with the OP in principle, but not his tone.  I don't accept freebies when exploring a timeshare I have an interest in touring.  Why?  It isn't worth 3 hours of my time.  What I do is walk in without an appointment; tell the receptionist that I would like to tour the resort and see a unit but am not interested in a full presentation or a gift.  I have always been accommodated, usually in a friendly and informative manner.

George


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## Vacation Dude

Jollyhols said:


> I just wish there would be a longer cooling-off period, or at least a buy-back scheme.  That's all I would ask. Then my timeshare company could have my unit back in a flash.  Actually I'm not sure why they don't want it - they said it was worth $62,000-odd just a couple of years' ago - I'd be happy to let them have it back at a fraction of that!



The only Westgate Lakes property that is worth $62,000 is if you bought the entire building and controlled all 52 weeks.



bogey21 said:


> I tend to agree with the OP in principle, but not his tone.  I don't accept freebies when exploring a timeshare I have an interest in touring.  Why?  It isn't worth 3 hours of my time.  What I do is walk in without an appointment; tell the receptionist that I would like to tour the resort and see a unit but am not interested in a full presentation or a gift.  I have always been accommodated, usually in a friendly and informative manner.
> 
> George



Believe it or not, that is also my style. I tell them (in nice words) I don't give a rats (you know what) about the free gift, but I really would love to see the model rooms and discuss prices and I only want to be there 30 minutes or less. I also refuse to give any personal identification or my real phone number.


----------



## JonathanIT

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...
> 
> After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.
> 
> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...
> 
> WHY????
> 
> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...
> 
> Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> (ignorant and rude comment removed)
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.




Seriously???   :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:


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## roadtriper

*Fuzzy Math*

I agree with other posts I think this is a scam/spoof   the Math doesn't work
if Newbietimeshare Guy was doing 3 presentations a day, working 5 days a week he would be doing 780 presentations a year.  Closing 39% of those would be 300 +/- closed sales a year.  I'm not privy to what Cut a timeshare salesman gets, but I'm guessing if this was true he would be too busy counting his money and waxing the Mercedes to be complaining about greedy presentation attendees    Just my .02   RT


----------



## newbietimesharesalesman

Ok, Here we go...

I am not "afraid" to post again.  I meant every word I said.  I love the disbelief the MOST.  Yes, I closed 39% over the last 90 days.  YES, I make much more money than doctors and lawyers my same age (and I never graduated college).  Yes, the system is designed (and we are trained) to entice our guests "Dominant Buying Motive", and they often become VERY upset upon learning of the savings of buying RESALE!  YES, I am honest on my presentations.  The only thing that I don't come right out and say is "don't buy this timeshare, you can get the same thing for 10% of the cost on ebay or a re-sale website..." but WHY WOULD I??  I too have a family to feed.  And you had better believe that I want them eating STEAK and SHRIMP!!

Do any of you HONESTLY think that LAWYERS are not in the SAME BOAT AS TIMESHARE SALESPEOPLE????!?!?!?  Defense lawyers are the BIGGEST SCUMBAGS THAT LIVE.  Some people don't remember that all the time.  

I wanted to vent, and I did.  I absolutely LOVED your responses.  Because it gave some of you the chance to vent as well.

I am truly SORRY that your sales reps lied to you.  I am SORRY for those of you whose ownership doesn't work out the way it was presented.  But I hold true to my disdain for those of you (NOT ALL OF YOU) who will repeatedly accept the bribes and take presentations.  I loved an early response that said it was "the timeshare company's marketing that DRAGGED us in here promising gifts" or "they won't stop calling about an "owner update"...  AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE DONE AT LEAST ONE OF THESE PRESENTATIONS BEFORE.  You know darn well what an "owner update" entails.  JUST SAY NO.  Don't be GREEDY and do a presentation for the gifts, even if you feel entitlement because of the missed opportunity to buy re-sale.  It is not the company's fault for not educating you on your buying options before YOU accepted bribes to take a presentation.  If I was buying a new car, you had better BELIEVE that I would explore all the options.  I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy something within 3 hours.  EVER.  So I understand the angry responses.  You are mad at yourselves for being WEAK and being HUMAN.

And that is what I am getting into in the next section of my post...

The REAL DEAL.

We (TS salesman) are TRAINED to extract every dollar possible on these presentations.  It is down to an exact science, tried and tested and proven to work 20% of the time on average.  We are TRAINED to extract a "Dominant Buying Motive" from every client, and ride that until the client gets frustrated and leaves, or purchases.  This "training" is put into place upon getting hired, and is much like a high-pressure presentation in itself...  Two weeks of intense training, where every day you can be fired for ONE comment to the negative aspect of buying/owning TS.  ONE comment.  We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time.  "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do."  That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT.  That is why the TS industry offers free gifts.  Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.

Here is a typical day at work (just to let you folks in on the darkside of the timeshare industry) - I will give you a rundown of what happens behind the scenes, and then I will tell you what I modified to keep my sanity and karma intact... Please feel free to distribute this information to those who plan on attending their first presentation...

1.  Morning meeting (typically takes place 45 minutes before the first wave of tours)

The project director pumps everyone up by yelling "GOOD MORNING ______!!!!!!(fill in name of company)"  Then he/she announces each representatives sales from the previous day to resounding applause.  The representatives clap and yell praise, mainly because we all make 20%-25% commision on every sale.  Thats a LOT of money.  They then single out representatives who they feel "missed" deals.  They reiterate the fact that each and every guest couple are MAKING A PACT AT THAT VERY MOMENT NOT TO BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS, and that our job for the day is to turn those people around.  They remind the sales staff of the monthly contest, and announce the leaders (last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place.  Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money.  Third place recieved $750.)  This pumps everyone up and gets them ready for the presentation.

2.  First wave

You take your presentation, hopefully resulting in a sale.  If you do sell, you may go home.  After all, the average sales price at my resort for a red week is $21,500.  That's a $4,300 average commision for 3-4 hours work.  Enough money to literally make you sick.  If you do not sell, you are put into a "de-briefing" to see what you missed and to go over your personal numbers.  If a sales rep takes 10 tours without making 2 sales he/she is put into a probationary status and can be let go.  Talk about high pressure!  You have no idea...  As of late, I have had no problem keeping my job.  A lot of the anger I see in your responses probably comes from the fact that TS salespeople make much more money than society's doctors, lawyers and the such.  I understand your frustrations.  Believe me, TS organizations are always hiring.  Come on in and apply!! 

To keep my sanity through all of this, I do not follow the "Steps of the TS Sale".  I will lay these steps out to all of you as well, as this has now turned into a sort of confessional LOL.  I modify the steps so I don't have to talk people into a sale, I let folks talk themselves into the sale.  They simply buy what they "need".  As far as I am concerned, I am not faulting them...  There is nothing I love more than making a hefty commision on a snotty, arrogant lawyer or doctor who already owns too much timeshare.  On the other hand, if I determine that my guests simply could not AFFORD or USE what I am selling, I _FLAT OUT TELL THEM WITHIN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES...  This way, we can just sit there and talk about the weather, art, politics, etc., as opposed to trying to talk them into buying something outside of their comfort zone.  The only occasional guilt that I feel is not talking about re-sale.  But WHY SHOULD I???  After all, that guilt or anxiety is SQUASHED when I pick up a tour that is arrogant, and just there for the gifts after doing 4 other presentations within 2 days of a "family" vacation.  Those people, dragging their kids and wives around to 4 different resorts to take advantage of free gifts.  To me, those people are open game.  Nature vs. nurture.  That is the purpose of my original post.  STOP DOING PRESENTATIONS.  That way, you take yourself out of the loop.

Anyway, here are the "Steps of the TS Sale".

1 - Meet and Greet (designed to break down original sales defenses)

2 - Warm Up (essentially making friends with your guests, asking about kids, jobs, lesiure activities, vacation habits, hobbies, etc. - designed to further break down sales defense)  This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year.  You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets.  Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS.  But I feel as if sometimes these families really NEED the gifts in order to give their kids a vacation.  Times are tough.  So I NEVER "NQ" them.  Instead, upon finding out they don't meet our requirements I sit and talk with them about nothing for the required time, and gift them just like a tour that said "no".  I tell them right off the bat that I know why they came in, and that the next rep they sit in front of will surely kick them out.  Hopefully they learn from the experience, but probably not.  At least I can sleep at night.

3 - BREAK THE PACT
"John and Mary, we KNOW that you had a talk before coming in here, saying to each other WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.  All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not rule anything out until you understand the concept of our program.  Is that fair to ask?"  We are required to get a handshake as commitment and NOT MOVE ON until the guests agree to keep an open mind".   This is designed to break down the PACT that all of you made before you went on the presentation that you bought on.  It obviously worked on all of you!!

4 - Intent Statement (basically telling your guests that they have to make a choice while they are there on your presentation.  There is no "think about it".  "At the end of the presentation I will ask your opinion.  A simple yes or no.  If you have to "think about it" then we have to file that in the "no" catagory, and you are not eligible to take a presentation with our company for 18 months."  This is designed to create urgency and to better your chances of a sale.  I COMPLETELY SKIP THIS.  I believe that if the people I sit in front of really could use this program, then they will buy it today.  Our managers make it SEEM like a very good deal without mentioning re-sale.  Again, for a family that can't afford or use it, I don't even call a manager.  But GOD HELP the arrogant rich guy.  He's going to ultimately pay ME my $1,100 hourly wage.  Well, actually not every time LOL.  39% of the time it works EVERY TIME...  

5 - Discovery (asking questions and vacation habits.  Most importantly HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING RENTING HOTEL ROOMS - this figure is used against the clients in the next section)

6 - Rent VS Own (comparing what the client will potentially spend over the course of their lives (and childrens lives) RENTING hotel/resorts.  Usually if the client is used to spending $150 - $200 per night on hotel accomodations for 2-3 weeks of vacation per year, then they are spending $2,100 - $2,800 annually on JUST THEIR ACCOMODATIONS.  Over ten years they will spend $21,000 - $28,000 BEFORE INFLATION and that does not include activites or FOOD while vacationing.  Obviously most folks are at the age where they have 20 to 30 years of vacationing left.  With an average inflation rate of 5% annually, compounded over 20 - 30 years, the costs of RENTING ACCOMODATIONS is staggering.  Thus the logic of ownership.

I usually don't spend much time on this, as seasoned TS vets know exactly what I am doing with those numbers.  Remember, you are going to say "no" no matter what, right? 

7 - Property Tour (it sells itself.  Pro golf course.  Beach front units.  Brand new appliances.  Water park for kids.  Jet skis.  Grocery store.  Amen.)

8 - Money.  we are trained to call a manager over to go over the costs.  At that point it is crystal clear whether or not they have any interest.  At the end of each step above, we ask "trial close" questions in order to keep the client saying "yes".  If they say "no" to a trial close, then we do not move on, even if it means gifting them and getting them out of there. 

I do not use trial closes.  It is too mechanical.  Again, people that have been on these things KNOW why I'm asking.  If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me.  The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.



So there you have it.  The inside scoop.  Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world.  But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE.  You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER.  If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO.  But don't get MAD at TS salespeople.  JUST SAY NO.

And to address the people who thought I was lying about my close %.  That is a 90 day roll.  Numbers change.  If I looked at the year I have been doing this the number is closer to 28%-31%.  Still fantastic in the eyes of upper management.  And I'll tell you what.  The year before I took this job I grossed $41,000 roughly.  I made that LAST MONTH selling YOU PEOPLE timeshares.  So enjoy!!!!!!!!   And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.

Have a nice day!_


----------



## theo

*I will do exactly that...*



newbietimesharesalesman said:


> And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.



No problem --- I never did in the past and never will in the future. 
You simply don't have any "gifts" valuable enough to compensate me for wasting time which I'll never get back...


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Not Just Exactly.*




newbietimesharesalesman said:


> I made that LAST MONTH selling YOU PEOPLE timeshares!


Not from us, you didn't. 

That's because most of us people here bought our timeshares for nickels (pennies, even) on the full-freight dollar. 

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth anywhere close to the money  -- but you already knew that. 

Nice to know that a professional timeshare seller does realize it -- & its ethical implications. 

How about this for a new wrinkle on that high-pressure pep talk that the timeshare sellers get from their bosses every day *- - -* 

Make the timeshare sellers pay out of their own pockets (i.e., out of their commission checks) for the timeshare tour freebies handed out to their customers who just said No.  (That'll up the pressure a bit, no?) 

Thanks for lifting the veil.  

Suspicions confirmed.  Case closed. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## thecypher

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.
> 
> Have a nice day!



Very nice. Thank you! And I mean it sincerely. This give me at least a good insight into what goes on in the TS industry behind the scenes. I have a few TS I bought resale. The first one I bought from the developer but I have also bought more TS from the developers after I have bought resale just because I liked the program. The ones I bought from the developer after were not the traditional TS but very different and it made sense to me and I still think they were good buys. I have attended 5 TS presentations so far and I have bought on 3 of them. The very first TS presentation I attended over 10 years ago when I had no TS and I had not even the faintest idea what a TS was and I didn't even have the faintest idea what the presentation was about. I believe we were told we have to attend a tour of the resort and we would get some Disney Tickets. We attended and we wanted to buy but the salesperson, a lady who was very pregnant and probably ready to go on maternity anytime wasn't interested in selling. Go figure! She probably took one look at me and my wife and must have thought this 25 year old couple ain't buying anything. She just plopped a big album of pictures and a catalog of some sort in front of us and disappeared. She came back after an hour and said thank you and left. We were actually very disappointed because we were genuinely interested in finding out what this TS thing was. We returned back to the same place probably a year later and bought. That was our first TS. I still have it. I didn't pay a big fortune for it. We bought small and yes today that TS on resale is probably worth 25% of the original sale price but I don't intend to sell and I got good use out of it the last 10 years.

The only other time I didn't buy was in Vegas. It was very high pressure to sign-up. They just wouldn't let us be and they were offering tickets to some nice show so we took the presentation. Was it greed? Year sure part of it was. And what they showed us and their program was nothing impressive so there was no question of changing our mind. 

To me it is not worth my time if I know for sure I am not buying to attend a presentation. It is just too much hassle. The ones I have attended after buying resale were places where I was genuinely interested to see what they have to offer (of course I thought to myself no harm checking out what they have. I am not buying anyway ) but I did end up buying. But I was a more educated buyer at that point and I bought because I felt it was worth what I was paying. At the end of the day in any good business deal it is not about what the stuff you are buying or selling is actually worth. It is about both the seller and the buyer walking away feeling they made a good deal. 

And yes nothing like buying TS when you have no clue because you will pay 4 to 10 times more than what it is worth. Is it the salesman's fault? No. Do they lie? Sure! 99 out of 100 TS salesman will probably feed you a whole bunch of lies. All 5 salesman I talked to all lied through their teeth. I guess that is the name of the game!

I don't agree that people should say NO to a TS presentation if they don't intend to buy. It is just another business deal. You are assuming people's time is free. It is not. Most people just don't know how expensive time is because you can't buy it from the developer or resale. So if I feel my 90 mins is worth the 2 dinner coupons or whatever the developer is offering then so be it. The developers very well know 90%+ attend just for the bribe. Without it they wouldn't have anybody at the table. Because it is a fact as you pointed out that you convert non-buyers into buyers. So asking people not to attend I think is foolish (business wise and Karma aside) because 39% of 0 is 0. Unless you have people at the table you are not selling anything. And if everybody who knows what happens at the presentation which is like probably 95% of the people at this point (Not just the people on TUG) say NO I don't think you would be making more than $41,000 a year selling TS. So I honestly don't get your logic. If you are truly selfless and want to make sure people stop being greedy and say NO to bribes, then you must be either a real saint or you don't understand math (39% of 0 is 0).


----------



## pittle

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...



I personally like to have references to what resorts people own so that if I need information about one, I know who to contact.  I think it lends credibility to posts about specific resorts.  For instance all of our resorts are in Mexico, but with 6 Mayan Palace weeks, folks know that I might just know something about them or would not own so many.  If I want to know something DVC, I would certainly look for that listed under someone's avatar so I could check their posts.

I also agree with what most of the others have posted so far.  We do attend presentations occasionally - and generally for the gifts (cash is best  ).  Last year when checking in at one resort where we owned, we were told by the person at the front desk that we should attend the owner's update to learn about the new exchange company.  They actually never mentioned the exchange company - they were just trying to get us to upgrade.   

We attended 4 presentations last year and while we did not intend to purchase any more timeshares, hubby fell in love with 2 and we added them to our collection!  I had sworn to never buy from a developer again, but both were brand new and it will be a while before they are available on resale.    (FYI - hubby tried his hand at selling timeshares after his retirement, but quit after 2 months - he could not lie to people and because of this, he only sold one.)

We do love traveling and timeshares are our favorite places to stay.  Once you have stayed in 1 and 2 bedroom units, a hotel room just does not measure up.


----------



## Vacation Dude

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> So there you have it.  The inside scoop.  Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world.  But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE.  You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER.  If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO.  But don't get MAD at TS salespeople.  JUST SAY NO.



ok, I will eat crow and now admit that your posts are some of the best I have every read on TUG and this thread has been a fascinating read. I hope you continue posting as I find your insight mesmerizing. 

I called you out and said you are too afraid to post again, but you answered my challenge and exceeded all my expectations (no I am not a shill for your company). However, you are the only timeshare sales rep that actually tells it like it is and I thank you for that.

Fortunately, I try to avoid timeshare presentations like I avoid the casinos at Las Vegas, because I know who generally wins. However, just like I blow $100 (no more) on a casino every 3 years or so, I may decide to take a timeshare presentation.

Just for fun, next time I will dress up as a rich arrogant doctor or lawyer just so the timeshare sales rep "ups his game" and I will get to see a real artist work on me. I will have to choose  a resort that I don't care for like Mexico or Las Vegas so I am not charmed by the snake eyes and sign a contract I will regret.

For the record, I have not taken any timeshare tours for a free gift, but have been on several mini tours (30 min or less) and state that I am not interested in the gift, but I am interested in the resort.

For the record, I have bought about 10 different timeshare contracts over the years and have never lost money on any purchase. Many of them were pre-construction sales from the developer that I later resold for a profit and a few were resale units at great locations where I got a great bargain.

It has been a while since I have bought a timeshare as I have been renting units from owners for the same cost or less than annual dues.


----------



## e.bram

I think the OP is using reverse psycholohy on us tuggers. He by telling us not to go to presentstions is actually goading us to go. The knows 39% of a larger number is a larger number. He is challenging us to give him a shot at us tuggers. After all tuggers present a real challenge to his sales ability and he wants to show us who is best. Dealing with non tuggers is a piece of cake and no real test of his sales ability.
Well, he convinced me. I am going to every tour I can, get my freebies and "just say NO". He has freed me from my moocher guilt(if I ever had it).
I ACCEPT HIS CHALLENGE. (all tugger should)


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## AwayWeGo

*Right On Target!  Where Do I Sign Up ?*




e.bram said:


> I am going to every tour I can, get my freebies and "just say NO". He has freed me from my moocher guilt(if I ever had it).
> I ACCEPT HIS CHALLENGE. (all tugger should)


I hereby nominate this idea by _e*.*bram_ for_ The TUG-BBS Entry Of The Month Award._ 

_Hear, hear ! _

Now, when the timeshare sellers ask me why I'm there if I don't intend to buy, I can honestly tell'm _e*.*bram_ sent me.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virgina, USA.​


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## Conan

If you haven't read our newbietimesharesalesman's entire post, here's the crux of it. 

It will come in handy the next time you take a tour and need to explain why you're saying "NO."



newbietimesharesalesman said:


> If I was buying a new car, you had better BELIEVE that I would explore all the options. I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy something within 3 hours. EVER.


----------



## geekette

e.bram said:


> I think the OP is using reverse psycholohy on us tuggers. He by telling us not to go to presentstions is actually goading us to go. The knows 39% of a larger number is a larger number. He is challenging us to give him a shot at us tuggers. After all tuggers present a real challenge to his sales ability and he wants to show us who is best. Dealing with non tuggers is a piece of cake and no real test of his sales ability.
> Well, he convinced me. I am going to every tour I can, get my freebies and "just say NO". He has freed me from my moocher guilt(if I ever had it).
> I ACCEPT HIS CHALLENGE. (all tugger should)



It is so rare that I agree with you that I had to let you know - I'm With You on this one!  

Gees, if I go to an overbuilt area and take in 2 presentations a day, I can make some pretty good money (or, save money by having them buy my dinner).


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## somerville

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> ... We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time.  "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do."  That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT.  That is why the TS industry offers free gifts.  Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you....


I don't attend presentations, as my time is more valuable.  However, if your sales model is based upon "greed and emotion", then don't complain about the greedy tours who have no intention of letting their "emotion" convince them to buy.


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## e.bram

AwaWeGo:
NO, refer them to the OP.
Say they have not done their job properly, to sell you.


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## Patri

*Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.

At least I can sleep at night.


If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me.  The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.*



I appreciate this post. We had pretty much figured out all the ploys but it is enlightening to see how you are directly trained. I am saddened, however, by your attitude towards people. You come across as hating everyone. If you truly can sleep at night, you are not of the finest character I would want in a husband or father. You see all clients negatively. They are greedy for coming to the presentation in the first place. How else could they get to one? Most people don't know beans about timesharing until they are invited to a presentation.
So if they are poor they are greedy for coming in, and if they are rich, they are just plain evil.
I hope you are able to spread your wings a bit more and through church, community organizations or school volunteering, can get to know people for the wonderful creations they are. Even if they attend a timeshare presentation.


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## rickandcindy23

I agree with Patri and e.bram. 

You shouldn't be so skeptical, especially if you are selling 39% of your attempts.  You are successful, supposedly, although you could be lying here, because successful people don't complain like this.


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## grest

Sounds like the OP is disdainful of people, except maybe toward those to whom he sells a timeshare.  Just remember, Mr. Salesman, you reap what you sow...
Connie


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## Egret1986

*Agreed!  Why are you complaining so much if you're so successful?*



rickandcindy23 said:


> I agree with Patri and e.bram.
> 
> You shouldn't be so skeptical, especially if you are selling 39% of your attempts.  You are successful, supposedly, although you could be lying here, because successful people don't complain like this.



As stated previously; do the math, 39% of 0 is 0.  The freebies bring them in.  You've been trained to work them over and change their no to a yes.  The properties will sell themselves.  I don't get it. 

All the claims of all that money you're making and steak and shrimp you're eating comes from all these folks you have so much contempt for.  You talked in your first post about folks bragging about their ownerships listed.  You seem to be doing a bit of bragging or is it wishful thinking that makes you so angry?  :annoyed: 

In the mid-80's we were lured to two timeshare resorts for a stay at the resort.  We bought both times.  If we hadn't been lured in with the freebies, we wouldn't have bought.  We got our money's worth out of both timeshares and we're glad we bought because we've been to some amazing places over the years that we might not otherwise enjoyed.  We have bought resale ever since.  Thank you for your contribution because that is what TUG is about; providing knowledge.

You might want to look into those anger issues though.   Between the contempt and all that money; you should be laughing all the way to the bank and enjoying the fruits of your labor instead of wasting time chastising the readership on TUG.


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## rickandcindy23

I wonder what you will say to your baby boy, when he is 25 and signs on the dotted line after one of these sales presentations.  I can tell you what I told my now 30-year-old son, when he bought four years ago: RESCIND NOW and buy your timeshare on the resale market.  Yet you would sell someone else's son a timeshare?  Who is the scoundrel here?  US?  No way are we scoundrels for telling the TRUTH, while you lie every day to make a living.  I never lie at a sales presentation.  I always tell them what we own.  Wyndham already knows what we own, and that was my last presentation, this past Friday.

We attend one timeshare presentation per year, but we travel 9 weeks a year to timeshares, all in areas where we are asked to attend--at least once per week, and often while we are at IHOP, Ponderosa or Denny's, or at the shops along Irlo Bronson in Kissimmee.  You aren't pulling the big spenders at any of those places, and $75K a year isn't much of an income for a family in this day and age, so I am sure most people aren't lying about their income. 

We did buy three times from developers, but then we got smart.


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## yumdrey

OP, your posting doesn't make sense at all. If you are so successful for selling retail timeshares, why you are complaining for freebie people? The buyers came for those freebies, and you made them to buy. So you should be thankful for their "greedy" character, not complain at all!
It sounds like you were not successful for selling and you blame people's greedy personality. Just like you never mention about resale market to prospect buyers, why should we say "no" to freebies?? You have family to feed, and we have family to entertain with free tickets. To my eyes, you are 1000 times more greedy than people for freebies. People get only $100 worth freebies for one presentation, but you are getting more than $4,000 commision for one sale! How can be more greedy than that?
I have never went to presentation or owner's update yet, but from now on, I will be there as many times as I can, and bring the print (your posting) and show it to sales person at the last minute. I will not say yes or no until exactly 90 minutes. I want to see how their faces change


----------



## geekette

I do appreciate the glimpse into the training.  That seems like one closet whose door has never been opened for me.

Can you tell us, tho, have you worked for only the one resort/system, or do you have at least one other resort/system to compare/contrast with?  my gut feel is that the training is much the same everywhere, altho I do think some would encourage you to browbeat, threaten, etc.  

I'm just wondering if it seems about the same to you or one was much more hard sell by design?

Please note, I am NOT asking you to reveal your organization.  It's really best that you continue to keep that to yourself.


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## SpikeMauler

*To the OP*

I think you have self esteem issues. Any one who talks so much about how much money they make , is usually BS'ing about how much money they make,which makes me feel bad for you . 
I think you need a hug 

PS;
Things will get better over time, and all that animosity and jealousy will eventually seep right out of your body, and you'll once again be on the path to happiness and contentment. 
I'll say a prayer for you.


----------



## zazz

e.bram said:


> He has freed me from my moocher guilt(if I ever had it).



Never had freebie guilt, never will.  You offer me something, don't be surprised if I take it.  TS salespeople know exactly what they got into.  And it protects one family from falling into the grubby mitts of the sales slugs.


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## e.bram

In Newport RI, they closed the sales center(no more pwner updates), depriving me of my freebies. things will never be the same again. We will be cooking all of our meals instead of going out. Too bad.


----------



## Zac495

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Ok, Here we go...
> 
> I am not "afraid" to post again.  I meant every word I said.  I love the disbelief the MOST.  Yes, I closed 39% over the last 90 days.  YES, I make much more money than doctors and lawyers my same age (and I never graduated college).  Yes, the system is designed (and we are trained) to entice our guests "Dominant Buying Motive", and they often become VERY upset upon learning of the savings of buying RESALE!  YES, I am honest on my presentations.  The only thing that I don't come right out and say is "don't buy this timeshare, you can get the same thing for 10% of the cost on ebay or a re-sale website..." but WHY WOULD I??  I too have a family to feed.  And you had better believe that I want them eating STEAK and SHRIMP!!
> 
> Do any of you HONESTLY think that LAWYERS are not in the SAME BOAT AS TIMESHARE SALESPEOPLE????!?!?!?  Defense lawyers are the BIGGEST SCUMBAGS THAT LIVE.  Some people don't remember that all the time.
> 
> I wanted to vent, and I did.  I absolutely LOVED your responses.  Because it gave some of you the chance to vent as well.
> 
> I am truly SORRY that your sales reps lied to you.  I am SORRY for those of you whose ownership doesn't work out the way it was presented.  But I hold true to my disdain for those of you (NOT ALL OF YOU) who will repeatedly accept the bribes and take presentations.  I loved an early response that said it was "the timeshare company's marketing that DRAGGED us in here promising gifts" or "they won't stop calling about an "owner update"...  AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE DONE AT LEAST ONE OF THESE PRESENTATIONS BEFORE.  You know darn well what an "owner update" entails.  JUST SAY NO.  Don't be GREEDY and do a presentation for the gifts, even if you feel entitlement because of the missed opportunity to buy re-sale.  It is not the company's fault for not educating you on your buying options before YOU accepted bribes to take a presentation.  If I was buying a new car, you had better BELIEVE that I would explore all the options.  I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy something within 3 hours.  EVER.  So I understand the angry responses.  You are mad at yourselves for being WEAK and being HUMAN.
> 
> And that is what I am getting into in the next section of my post...
> 
> The REAL DEAL.
> 
> We (TS salesman) are TRAINED to extract every dollar possible on these presentations.  It is down to an exact science, tried and tested and proven to work 20% of the time on average.  We are TRAINED to extract a "Dominant Buying Motive" from every client, and ride that until the client gets frustrated and leaves, or purchases.  This "training" is put into place upon getting hired, and is much like a high-pressure presentation in itself...  Two weeks of intense training, where every day you can be fired for ONE comment to the negative aspect of buying/owning TS.  ONE comment.  We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time.  "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do."  That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT.  That is why the TS industry offers free gifts.  Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.
> 
> Here is a typical day at work (just to let you folks in on the darkside of the timeshare industry) - I will give you a rundown of what happens behind the scenes, and then I will tell you what I modified to keep my sanity and karma intact... Please feel free to distribute this information to those who plan on attending their first presentation...
> 
> 1.  Morning meeting (typically takes place 45 minutes before the first wave of tours)
> 
> The project director pumps everyone up by yelling "GOOD MORNING ______!!!!!!(fill in name of company)"  Then he/she announces each representatives sales from the previous day to resounding applause.  The representatives clap and yell praise, mainly because we all make 20%-25% commision on every sale.  Thats a LOT of money.  They then single out representatives who they feel "missed" deals.  They reiterate the fact that each and every guest couple are MAKING A PACT AT THAT VERY MOMENT NOT TO BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS, and that our job for the day is to turn those people around.  They remind the sales staff of the monthly contest, and announce the leaders (last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place.  Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money.  Third place recieved $750.)  This pumps everyone up and gets them ready for the presentation.
> 
> 2.  First wave
> 
> You take your presentation, hopefully resulting in a sale.  If you do sell, you may go home.  After all, the average sales price at my resort for a red week is $21,500.  That's a $4,300 average commision for 3-4 hours work.  Enough money to literally make you sick.  If you do not sell, you are put into a "de-briefing" to see what you missed and to go over your personal numbers.  If a sales rep takes 10 tours without making 2 sales he/she is put into a probationary status and can be let go.  Talk about high pressure!  You have no idea...  As of late, I have had no problem keeping my job.  A lot of the anger I see in your responses probably comes from the fact that TS salespeople make much more money than society's doctors, lawyers and the such.  I understand your frustrations.  Believe me, TS organizations are always hiring.  Come on in and apply!!
> 
> To keep my sanity through all of this, I do not follow the "Steps of the TS Sale".  I will lay these steps out to all of you as well, as this has now turned into a sort of confessional LOL.  I modify the steps so I don't have to talk people into a sale, I let folks talk themselves into the sale.  They simply buy what they "need".  As far as I am concerned, I am not faulting them...  There is nothing I love more than making a hefty commision on a snotty, arrogant lawyer or doctor who already owns too much timeshare.  On the other hand, if I determine that my guests simply could not AFFORD or USE what I am selling, I _FLAT OUT TELL THEM WITHIN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES...  This way, we can just sit there and talk about the weather, art, politics, etc., as opposed to trying to talk them into buying something outside of their comfort zone.  The only occasional guilt that I feel is not talking about re-sale.  But WHY SHOULD I???  After all, that guilt or anxiety is SQUASHED when I pick up a tour that is arrogant, and just there for the gifts after doing 4 other presentations within 2 days of a "family" vacation.  Those people, dragging their kids and wives around to 4 different resorts to take advantage of free gifts.  To me, those people are open game.  Nature vs. nurture.  That is the purpose of my original post.  STOP DOING PRESENTATIONS.  That way, you take yourself out of the loop.
> 
> Anyway, here are the "Steps of the TS Sale".
> 
> 1 - Meet and Greet (designed to break down original sales defenses)
> 
> 2 - Warm Up (essentially making friends with your guests, asking about kids, jobs, lesiure activities, vacation habits, hobbies, etc. - designed to further break down sales defense)  This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year.  You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets.  Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS.  But I feel as if sometimes these families really NEED the gifts in order to give their kids a vacation.  Times are tough.  So I NEVER "NQ" them.  Instead, upon finding out they don't meet our requirements I sit and talk with them about nothing for the required time, and gift them just like a tour that said "no".  I tell them right off the bat that I know why they came in, and that the next rep they sit in front of will surely kick them out.  Hopefully they learn from the experience, but probably not.  At least I can sleep at night.
> 
> 3 - BREAK THE PACT
> "John and Mary, we KNOW that you had a talk before coming in here, saying to each other WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.  All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not rule anything out until you understand the concept of our program.  Is that fair to ask?"  We are required to get a handshake as commitment and NOT MOVE ON until the guests agree to keep an open mind".   This is designed to break down the PACT that all of you made before you went on the presentation that you bought on.  It obviously worked on all of you!!
> 
> 4 - Intent Statement (basically telling your guests that they have to make a choice while they are there on your presentation.  There is no "think about it".  "At the end of the presentation I will ask your opinion.  A simple yes or no.  If you have to "think about it" then we have to file that in the "no" catagory, and you are not eligible to take a presentation with our company for 18 months."  This is designed to create urgency and to better your chances of a sale.  I COMPLETELY SKIP THIS.  I believe that if the people I sit in front of really could use this program, then they will buy it today.  Our managers make it SEEM like a very good deal without mentioning re-sale.  Again, for a family that can't afford or use it, I don't even call a manager.  But GOD HELP the arrogant rich guy.  He's going to ultimately pay ME my $1,100 hourly wage.  Well, actually not every time LOL.  39% of the time it works EVERY TIME...
> 
> 5 - Discovery (asking questions and vacation habits.  Most importantly HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING RENTING HOTEL ROOMS - this figure is used against the clients in the next section)
> 
> 6 - Rent VS Own (comparing what the client will potentially spend over the course of their lives (and childrens lives) RENTING hotel/resorts.  Usually if the client is used to spending $150 - $200 per night on hotel accomodations for 2-3 weeks of vacation per year, then they are spending $2,100 - $2,800 annually on JUST THEIR ACCOMODATIONS.  Over ten years they will spend $21,000 - $28,000 BEFORE INFLATION and that does not include activites or FOOD while vacationing.  Obviously most folks are at the age where they have 20 to 30 years of vacationing left.  With an average inflation rate of 5% annually, compounded over 20 - 30 years, the costs of RENTING ACCOMODATIONS is staggering.  Thus the logic of ownership.
> 
> I usually don't spend much time on this, as seasoned TS vets know exactly what I am doing with those numbers.  Remember, you are going to say "no" no matter what, right?
> 
> 7 - Property Tour (it sells itself.  Pro golf course.  Beach front units.  Brand new appliances.  Water park for kids.  Jet skis.  Grocery store.  Amen.)
> 
> 8 - Money.  we are trained to call a manager over to go over the costs.  At that point it is crystal clear whether or not they have any interest.  At the end of each step above, we ask "trial close" questions in order to keep the client saying "yes".  If they say "no" to a trial close, then we do not move on, even if it means gifting them and getting them out of there.
> 
> I do not use trial closes.  It is too mechanical.  Again, people that have been on these things KNOW why I'm asking.  If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me.  The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have it.  The inside scoop.  Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world.  But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE.  You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER.  If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO.  But don't get MAD at TS salespeople.  JUST SAY NO.
> 
> And to address the people who thought I was lying about my close %.  That is a 90 day roll.  Numbers change.  If I looked at the year I have been doing this the number is closer to 28%-31%.  Still fantastic in the eyes of upper management.  And I'll tell you what.  The year before I took this job I grossed $41,000 roughly.  I made that LAST MONTH selling YOU PEOPLE timeshares.  So enjoy!!!!!!!!   And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.
> 
> Have a nice day!_


_

What timeshare company do you work for? I'm with e.bram. I accept. I'll come._


----------



## hockeybrain

This thread should be a sticky for anybody remotely interested to hopefully read prior to going to a time share presentation!   :rofl:  

Newbietimesharesalesman I guess I am the type of guy you dread, because I sure have cost you "time" as your colleagues educated me about the time share industry.   

We went to six different company time share presentations while in Vegas initially hoping to find a good time share company for our future.   Nobody was able to educate me well enough about their programs to get me to buy.   There were always holes in the presentations.   Nothing ever passed my sense of what was remotely reasonable numerically.  

I did hear timeshare companies routinely telling me why their "program" was better than other companies which as they bad mouthed the "competition" really just hurt their potential sale and in reality the entire time share industry.   We could never use all our gifts from that Vegas trip and just gave free lunch certificates to people we met along the way while we were in Vegas.   We enjoyed the shows, enjoyed free dinners etc.  

I did focus in on Hilton and Marriott after all the different time share presentations we went to during our Vegas vacation (all our presentations were in the am by the way) and ended up going back to the Hilton and Marriott sale staff to attempt to further understand their programs (still not sure about intricacies of either program by the way).   I decided I would buy one or perhaps both of those two eventually.   

Hilton let us try their "VIP" program for a vacation to Hawaii and though we did not buy after that trial we eventually decided after trying the Hilton program at HHV that we really liked Hilton - though not enough to buy until we are ready at the best price for us (sorry resale is the only way we could justify or afford), because time shares are not good unless you intend to use the program you buy, know how to use the program you buy, have the time to vacation and like us like a more "upscale" vacation.   

So, we are here still educating ourselves and if we find the right Hilton time share location at the right price we will buy.   Still like Mariott properties also, but not enough to consider a Mariott resale at this time.   

Now you and some of the real experienced time share owners might say I am way off in my thinking and should buy a really cheap great trading time share with really low maintenance costs, but my time looking, waiting and trading if I own a time share also is valuable.   

Now, since Vegas we have never been to a time share presentation because TUG, Redbook and the internet are all I need to learn, but we did visit two timeshares when we visited Maui just to see the properties a couple of years ago.   Just walked up and asked somebody to tour us around.   

If salesmen in the time share industry could offer the properties up front at a reasonable cost the resale market would really not be needed.   Unfortunately, the time share industry is what it is...........too much up front greed on the part of developers and salesman like yourself.    

I could never live with myself as a time share salesman knowing what I know now about the industry.   I urge you to quit and do something good for society.   Thanks for your inside perspective.   Just by comming on this board and posting you have made the first step towards doing the right thing and quitting...........................


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




hockeybrain said:


> If salesmen in the time share industry could offer the properties up front at a reasonable cost the resale market would really not be needed.


I think you are on to something. 

An all-new timeshare biz. model is badly needed for sure -- patterned on Wal*Mart for initial sales & patterned on CarMax for resales. 

There will always be a timeshare resale market, but with a saner biz. plan on the part of the timeshare companies there might not be such an extreme price differential between initial sales & resales as what we see today. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bruwery

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Ok, Here we go...
> 
> Do any of you HONESTLY think that LAWYERS are not in the SAME BOAT AS TIMESHARE SALESPEOPLE????!?!?!?  Defense lawyers are the BIGGEST SCUMBAGS THAT LIVE.  Some people don't remember that all the time.



I am not an attorney, but I do disagree with your statement.  Defense lawyers are an integral part of the judicial system - the system couldn't function without them.  At the end of the day, they're no worse than an overzealous prosecutor.  Besides, like them or not, I'm sure all of us can easily come up with several classes of people that are bigger sources of disgust.  I know my list is quite long, but I will keep it to myself because it's off topic.

Stick around, there's much for all of us to learn.  The information you've provided is quite interesting, but your point is being obfuscated by the runaway emotion.

Emotion is great, but hopefully, you'll get a handle on the anger before something triggers you to act on it.  Because if you act on it, you'll likely need the services of one of those "biggest scumbags that live"...


----------



## JonathanIT

hockeybrain said:


> This thread should be a sticky for anybody remotely interested to hopefully read prior to going to a time share presentation!   :rofl:
> 
> Newbietimesharesalesman I guess I am the type of guy you dread, because I sure have cost you "time" as your colleagues educated me about the time share industry.   We went to six different company time share presentations while in Vegas initially hoping to find a good time share company for our future.   Nobody was able to educate me well enough about their programs to get me to buy.   There were always holes in the presentations.   Nothing ever passed my sense of what was remotely reasonable numerically.  I did hear timeshare companies routinely telling me why their "program" was better than other companies which as they bad mouthed the "competition" really just hurt their potential sale and in reality the entire time share industry.   We could never use all our gifts from that Vegas trip and just gave free lunch certificates to people we met along the way while we were in Vegas.   We enjoyed the shows, enjoyed free dinners etc.  I did focus in on Hilton and Marriott after all the different time share presentations we went to during our Vegas vacation (all our presentations were in the am by the way) and ended up going back to the Hilton and Marriott sale staff to attempt to further understand their programs (still not sure about intricacies of either program by the way).   I decided I would buy one or perhaps both of those two eventually.   Hilton let us try their "VIP" program for a vacation to Hawaii and though we did not buy after that trial we eventually decided after trying the Hilton program at HHV that we really liked Hilton - though not enough to buy until we are ready at the best price for us (sorry resale is the only way we could justify or afford), because time shares are not good unless you intend to use the program you buy, know how to use the program you buy, have the time to vacation and like us like a more "upscale" vacation.   So, we are here still educating ourselves and if we find the right Hilton time share location at the right price we will buy.   Still like Mariott properties also, but not enough to consider a Mariott resale at this time.   Now you and some of the real experienced time share owners might say I am way off in my thinking and should buy a really cheap great trading time share with really low maintenance costs, but my time looking, waiting and trading if I own a time share also is valuable.   Now, since Vegas we have never been to a time share presentation because TUG, Redbook and the internet are all I need to learn, but we did visit two timeshares when we visited Maui just to see the properties a couple of years ago.   Just walked up and asked somebody to tour us around.   If salesmen in the time share industry could offer the properties up front at a reasonable cost the resale market would really not be needed.   Unfortunately, the time share industry is what it is...........too much up front greed on the part of developers and salesman like yourself.    I could never live with myself as a time share salesman knowing what I know now about the industry.   I urge you to quit and do something good for society.   Thanks for your inside perspective.   Just by comming on this board and posting you have made the first step towards doing the right thing and quitting...........................


I wanted to read what you have to say... but please put some paragraph breaks into your long posts!  It is almost impossible to get through.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Dressing Up T. U. G. - B. B. S.*




JonathanIT said:


> I wanted to read what you have to say... but please put some paragraph breaks into your long posts!  It is almost impossible to get through.


Wouldn't hurt to add a tricky lettering style while you're at it. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## hockeybrain

Jon - agreed  .   I broke up my long paragraph into shorter segements.   Hope that helps.


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## geekette

AwayWeGo said:


> Wouldn't hurt to add a tricky lettering style while you're at it.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



:hysterical: 

thanks, needed the lol.


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## Vacation Dude

Admin Edit: quit being annoying


----------



## Laurie

geekette said:


> I do appreciate the glimpse into the training.  That seems like one closet whose door has never been opened for me.


Wow, me too - and I agree a sticky with some of this info would be very valuable for TUG. 

I originally signed the dotted line at a presentation, and was fortunate to rescind in time (very fortunate, given the fact that internet and search engines barely existed back then). I was outright lied to by the Fairfield/Windham salespeople about specific questions I asked, and signed only on the basis of 
1- the false info presented in the lies and 
2- the provision to rescind if my own research gave me different info than the salespeople did. 
So I went right home and did my homework. I felt good that I exercised my rights, and saved myself a bundle of dough, and kept on learning about what ownership was right for me.

I have no qualms about going to occasional presentations when I have no intention of buying. Sometimes it's the only way to get in to see a unit (including at a resort I own at but had never stayed at, and had stopped in to view a unit at least 3x, unsuccessfully...). Sometimes the weather is yucky, and/or my travel partner's sick that day, and/or I've been interested in learning about their system, whatever. I'll do the math, and if I feel good about earning x # of dollars per hour on a certain day while getting to see a resort I'm interested in, I feel perfectly justified in accepting the offer. 

I've had some nice, fun, respectful exchanges with good salespeople (the non-resentful ones, who can enjoy an actual sharing and exchange of information - they know stuff I didn't know, and I know stuff they didn't know, and we all come out more informed for it), as well as some really bad ones (angry, manipulative, arrogant, etc.).

To the OP: my advice is that you let go of your expectations and demands that we say no. We can say yes, or no today, and yes or no tomorrow - it's our choice, not yours. I find your insistence that we say "no" to be just more of that same manipulative behavior that is so rampant in your industry and your training.


----------



## BocaBum99

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Ok, Here we go...
> 
> I am not "afraid" to post again.  I meant every word I said.  I love the disbelief the MOST.  Yes, I closed 39% over the last 90 days.  YES, I make much more money than doctors and lawyers my same age (and I never graduated college).  Yes, the system is designed (and we are trained) to entice our guests "Dominant Buying Motive", and they often become VERY upset upon learning of the savings of buying RESALE!  YES, I am honest on my presentations.  The only thing that I don't come right out and say is "don't buy this timeshare, you can get the same thing for 10% of the cost on ebay or a re-sale website..." but WHY WOULD I??  I too have a family to feed.  And you had better believe that I want them eating STEAK and SHRIMP!!
> 
> Do any of you HONESTLY think that LAWYERS are not in the SAME BOAT AS TIMESHARE SALESPEOPLE????!?!?!?  Defense lawyers are the BIGGEST SCUMBAGS THAT LIVE.  Some people don't remember that all the time.
> 
> I wanted to vent, and I did.  I absolutely LOVED your responses.  Because it gave some of you the chance to vent as well.
> 
> I am truly SORRY that your sales reps lied to you.  I am SORRY for those of you whose ownership doesn't work out the way it was presented.  But I hold true to my disdain for those of you (NOT ALL OF YOU) who will repeatedly accept the bribes and take presentations.  I loved an early response that said it was "the timeshare company's marketing that DRAGGED us in here promising gifts" or "they won't stop calling about an "owner update"...  AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE DONE AT LEAST ONE OF THESE PRESENTATIONS BEFORE.  You know darn well what an "owner update" entails.  JUST SAY NO.  Don't be GREEDY and do a presentation for the gifts, even if you feel entitlement because of the missed opportunity to buy re-sale.  It is not the company's fault for not educating you on your buying options before YOU accepted bribes to take a presentation.  If I was buying a new car, you had better BELIEVE that I would explore all the options.  I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy something within 3 hours.  EVER.  So I understand the angry responses.  You are mad at yourselves for being WEAK and being HUMAN.
> 
> And that is what I am getting into in the next section of my post...
> 
> The REAL DEAL.
> 
> We (TS salesman) are TRAINED to extract every dollar possible on these presentations.  It is down to an exact science, tried and tested and proven to work 20% of the time on average.  We are TRAINED to extract a "Dominant Buying Motive" from every client, and ride that until the client gets frustrated and leaves, or purchases.  This "training" is put into place upon getting hired, and is much like a high-pressure presentation in itself...  Two weeks of intense training, where every day you can be fired for ONE comment to the negative aspect of buying/owning TS.  ONE comment.  We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time.  "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do."  That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT.  That is why the TS industry offers free gifts.  Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.
> 
> Here is a typical day at work (just to let you folks in on the darkside of the timeshare industry) - I will give you a rundown of what happens behind the scenes, and then I will tell you what I modified to keep my sanity and karma intact... Please feel free to distribute this information to those who plan on attending their first presentation...
> 
> 1.  Morning meeting (typically takes place 45 minutes before the first wave of tours)
> 
> The project director pumps everyone up by yelling "GOOD MORNING ______!!!!!!(fill in name of company)"  Then he/she announces each representatives sales from the previous day to resounding applause.  The representatives clap and yell praise, mainly because we all make 20%-25% commision on every sale.  Thats a LOT of money.  They then single out representatives who they feel "missed" deals.  They reiterate the fact that each and every guest couple are MAKING A PACT AT THAT VERY MOMENT NOT TO BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS, and that our job for the day is to turn those people around.  They remind the sales staff of the monthly contest, and announce the leaders (last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place.  Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money.  Third place recieved $750.)  This pumps everyone up and gets them ready for the presentation.
> 
> 2.  First wave
> 
> You take your presentation, hopefully resulting in a sale.  If you do sell, you may go home.  After all, the average sales price at my resort for a red week is $21,500.  That's a $4,300 average commision for 3-4 hours work.  Enough money to literally make you sick.  If you do not sell, you are put into a "de-briefing" to see what you missed and to go over your personal numbers.  If a sales rep takes 10 tours without making 2 sales he/she is put into a probationary status and can be let go.  Talk about high pressure!  You have no idea...  As of late, I have had no problem keeping my job.  A lot of the anger I see in your responses probably comes from the fact that TS salespeople make much more money than society's doctors, lawyers and the such.  I understand your frustrations.  Believe me, TS organizations are always hiring.  Come on in and apply!!
> 
> To keep my sanity through all of this, I do not follow the "Steps of the TS Sale".  I will lay these steps out to all of you as well, as this has now turned into a sort of confessional LOL.  I modify the steps so I don't have to talk people into a sale, I let folks talk themselves into the sale.  They simply buy what they "need".  As far as I am concerned, I am not faulting them...  There is nothing I love more than making a hefty commision on a snotty, arrogant lawyer or doctor who already owns too much timeshare.  On the other hand, if I determine that my guests simply could not AFFORD or USE what I am selling, I _FLAT OUT TELL THEM WITHIN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES...  This way, we can just sit there and talk about the weather, art, politics, etc., as opposed to trying to talk them into buying something outside of their comfort zone.  The only occasional guilt that I feel is not talking about re-sale.  But WHY SHOULD I???  After all, that guilt or anxiety is SQUASHED when I pick up a tour that is arrogant, and just there for the gifts after doing 4 other presentations within 2 days of a "family" vacation.  Those people, dragging their kids and wives around to 4 different resorts to take advantage of free gifts.  To me, those people are open game.  Nature vs. nurture.  That is the purpose of my original post.  STOP DOING PRESENTATIONS.  That way, you take yourself out of the loop.
> 
> Anyway, here are the "Steps of the TS Sale".
> 
> 1 - Meet and Greet (designed to break down original sales defenses)
> 
> 2 - Warm Up (essentially making friends with your guests, asking about kids, jobs, lesiure activities, vacation habits, hobbies, etc. - designed to further break down sales defense)  This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year.  You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets.  Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS.  But I feel as if sometimes these families really NEED the gifts in order to give their kids a vacation.  Times are tough.  So I NEVER "NQ" them.  Instead, upon finding out they don't meet our requirements I sit and talk with them about nothing for the required time, and gift them just like a tour that said "no".  I tell them right off the bat that I know why they came in, and that the next rep they sit in front of will surely kick them out.  Hopefully they learn from the experience, but probably not.  At least I can sleep at night.
> 
> 3 - BREAK THE PACT
> "John and Mary, we KNOW that you had a talk before coming in here, saying to each other WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.  All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not rule anything out until you understand the concept of our program.  Is that fair to ask?"  We are required to get a handshake as commitment and NOT MOVE ON until the guests agree to keep an open mind".   This is designed to break down the PACT that all of you made before you went on the presentation that you bought on.  It obviously worked on all of you!!
> 
> 4 - Intent Statement (basically telling your guests that they have to make a choice while they are there on your presentation.  There is no "think about it".  "At the end of the presentation I will ask your opinion.  A simple yes or no.  If you have to "think about it" then we have to file that in the "no" catagory, and you are not eligible to take a presentation with our company for 18 months."  This is designed to create urgency and to better your chances of a sale.  I COMPLETELY SKIP THIS.  I believe that if the people I sit in front of really could use this program, then they will buy it today.  Our managers make it SEEM like a very good deal without mentioning re-sale.  Again, for a family that can't afford or use it, I don't even call a manager.  But GOD HELP the arrogant rich guy.  He's going to ultimately pay ME my $1,100 hourly wage.  Well, actually not every time LOL.  39% of the time it works EVERY TIME...
> 
> 5 - Discovery (asking questions and vacation habits.  Most importantly HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING RENTING HOTEL ROOMS - this figure is used against the clients in the next section)
> 
> 6 - Rent VS Own (comparing what the client will potentially spend over the course of their lives (and childrens lives) RENTING hotel/resorts.  Usually if the client is used to spending $150 - $200 per night on hotel accomodations for 2-3 weeks of vacation per year, then they are spending $2,100 - $2,800 annually on JUST THEIR ACCOMODATIONS.  Over ten years they will spend $21,000 - $28,000 BEFORE INFLATION and that does not include activites or FOOD while vacationing.  Obviously most folks are at the age where they have 20 to 30 years of vacationing left.  With an average inflation rate of 5% annually, compounded over 20 - 30 years, the costs of RENTING ACCOMODATIONS is staggering.  Thus the logic of ownership.
> 
> I usually don't spend much time on this, as seasoned TS vets know exactly what I am doing with those numbers.  Remember, you are going to say "no" no matter what, right?
> 
> 7 - Property Tour (it sells itself.  Pro golf course.  Beach front units.  Brand new appliances.  Water park for kids.  Jet skis.  Grocery store.  Amen.)
> 
> 8 - Money.  we are trained to call a manager over to go over the costs.  At that point it is crystal clear whether or not they have any interest.  At the end of each step above, we ask "trial close" questions in order to keep the client saying "yes".  If they say "no" to a trial close, then we do not move on, even if it means gifting them and getting them out of there.
> 
> I do not use trial closes.  It is too mechanical.  Again, people that have been on these things KNOW why I'm asking.  If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me.  The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have it.  The inside scoop.  Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world.  But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE.  You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER.  If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO.  But don't get MAD at TS salespeople.  JUST SAY NO.
> 
> And to address the people who thought I was lying about my close %.  That is a 90 day roll.  Numbers change.  If I looked at the year I have been doing this the number is closer to 28%-31%.  Still fantastic in the eyes of upper management.  And I'll tell you what.  The year before I took this job I grossed $41,000 roughly.  I made that LAST MONTH selling YOU PEOPLE timeshares.  So enjoy!!!!!!!!   And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.
> 
> Have a nice day!_


_

This is right out of the Wyndham sales training manual.  I guess we now know what resort group you work for.  It's very easy to copy notes from a training manual.  The best sales guys don't use it.  They simply emotionally manipulate their tour guests and go for the close.

You are lying about something in just these 2 posts.  I'm not sure what it is because that's what good sales guys do.  They say something that isn't technically a lie, but is intentionally misleading.  They get plausible deniability.

For what it's worth, I don't believe you averaged 28-31% close rate for a year.  Even the best in the business go into slumps.    What is your APG or whatever Wyndham does to calculate average revenue per tour guest?  You are measured on it and therefore know what it is.  That will tell us more about your performance than anything else.  For all we know, you do exit sales._


----------



## BocaBum99

By the way, I just looked at your numbers and you are definitely lying, Mr. OP.

First of all, timeshare sales commissions are NOT 20-25%.  That is a flat out LIE.  They typically start out at 6% based on the first deal and there are escalators based on hitting certain targets in a month.  Typical compensation escalates from 6-14%.  Nobody, just pays 20% on the first deal.  That's because you can sit in on a podium session.  Give the tour.  Hand it over to the TO, they close it.  All you did was the pitch.

The TO, the sales director, VP, SVP also need to get paid.  Also, all marketing guys need to get paid as well.  

If a timeshare salesman makes ONE sale per week out of 10 tours, they are doing pretty well and they will keep their job.  The average timeshare salesman makes $50k per year.  The superstars make in excess of $200k due to the escalators.

The numbers you share and the fact that you copied the Wyndham sales manual tell me you are a charlatan.  No top timeshare salesmen I know would a) post on this message board, b) mischaracterize their comp.  They just say something like, I have an APG of $5000 c) copy the training manual telling people how they sell.  Only someone who actually doesn't know how to sell would regurgitate that garbage.  That traininig is completely intent on getting a newbie up to the minimum APG hoping that they find a superstar.

I'm calling you out.  You are NOT who you claim to be.


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## newbietimesharesalesman

BocaBum,

I work for Spinaker resorts, Hilton Head Island, SC.  All sales reps are currently making 20% flat commision, no bonus due to the economy.  There is a sales "spiff" each month (the escalators you mention) that allows the occasional extra 5%...

Now to turn the magnifying glass back on YOU...

What do YOU do for a living??  You seem to know an AWFUL lot about this industry... "My friends told me..."etc...  BS!!!!

BS!!!!

Did you try your hand??  Did you get fired for low numbers BocaBUM??  Because your "friends" sound irritated.  Why WOULDN'T I post on here?  The "training manual"???  My training was a 12 person class, March 2008.  4 of us (the original class) are still there.

Call our corporate office.  Apply for a job.  Then you will be informed of the commision rates properly.  Until then, I flick my nose in your direction with my thumb!


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## newbietimesharesalesman

Oh, one more thing BocaBUM.

my APG has floated around 2400-3900 since I began employment.  You are let go within 15 tours if your APG falls below 1800.

You sir, are a genius.  You certainly have it all figured out.

I guess I should pose a question to the rest of TUG:

Should I follow Boca's advice and cease my posts?  Or do you all want more information about the inside of the business...

Boca is the one who sounds like a fraud.


----------



## Steve

*Getting too personal...*

This is an interesting topic, but the discussion is getting (and has been from the beginning) too personal.  It's great to have a variety of opinions expressed...both of those who work in the industry and those (the vast majority) who do not.  So please, everyone, keep posting.  

But please remember TUG's "Be Courteous" rule.  There have been a lot of less than courteous posts in this thread from all sides.

Steve
TUG Moderator


----------



## BocaBum99

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Oh, one more thing BocaBUM.
> 
> my APG has floated around 2400-3900 since I began employment.  You are let go within 15 tours if your APG falls below 1800.
> 
> You sir, are a genius.  You certainly have it all figured out.
> 
> I guess I should pose a question to the rest of TUG:
> 
> Should I follow Boca's advice and cease my posts?  Or do you all want more information about the inside of the business...
> 
> Boca is the one who sounds like a fraud.



Okay, I'll follow Steve's advice and keep it civil so this thread doesn't get closed.  Let me show you how your own math doesn't add up.

What you described above is the standard 5 day per week, 2 tour per day schedule.  10 tours per week.  Some do many more.  Many do exactly this model.  It is true that making a timeshare tour takes a lot out of a timeshare salesman, so they often times go home after the first tour.  So, in your case, let's assume you are doing great.  An APG of between $2400-3900 is very very good to outstanding.  Yes, that is a star.  Not the top of the superstar, but employable at any timeshare resort anywhere at any time.

In an average month, you would normally do about 40 tours per month ( 4 weeks per month, 10 tours per week).  Let's say on the days you make a sale, you go home.  Your close rate was 39% and the average sale is $21,500.  It's the number you use in the thread.  At 39%, you close 11 deals.  And, since you are going home 11 times, you only do 28 or 29 tours in the month.

Okay, now, we have established that a 39% close rate off of 28 tours is 11 sales.  You only had 28 tours because you went home 11 times after making a sale.  At $21,500 per sale, your revenue is $21,500 * 11 = $236,500 based on 28 tours.  Your APG is $8446.  That is WAY more than the $2400-3900 you said you averaged.   Your numbers don't add up.

Okay, let's say that was an outlier month.  You just had a phenomenal month and just showed your best month ever.  So, let's move to your average.  You said your average close rate was between 28-31%.  Let's be conservative and say that you had a 28% close rate.  Maybe you misrecalled your exact close rate and you exagerated.

Using the take the day off method, in a 40 tour month, you would have about 8 closed sales in 28 tours plus an extra day or two off for being a star.  8/29 = 27.6%.  8 sales at $21,500 = $172,000 in your average month.  With 29 tours, your APG is $5931.  Your claimed average is much higher than your stated APG.

The next thing you will probably do is claim that you didn't sell the average timeshare at your resort.  You only sold on average a small every other year package of $10,500.  But, you led us to believe that your average sale is $21,500 since you calculated the commission to be $4300.  If your average sale were an every other year package worth $10,500, why would you have used that as an example?

Or, maybe you have a 50% recission rate.  If that's the case, it's hard to believe you told the whole truth.  

Like I said, I don't know what part of what you said is not true or is intentionally misleading.  But, I am 100% sure that some of it is NOT the whole truth.  The math doesn't lie.

By the way, I never said you should stop posting.  In fact, I credit you for quoting the Wyndham playbook.  If you work for Spinnaker, perhaps your sales manager worked for Wyndham and lifted their training manual.  Lastly, you just don't have a monopoly on how the timeshare industry works on the inside.  In fact, as a timeshare salesman, you only know a fraction of how a timeshare resort developer operates.  And, all you did was describe front line sales.  You didn't describe the sales process for in house sales.


----------



## Vacation Dude

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Until then, I flick my nose in your direction with my thumb!



I am happy you are disclosing the truth behind the timeshare sales veil (at least from your perspective). If you are making the amount of money you claim, congrats, even though I personally think you are coming across as pretty arrogant. No matter, I enjoy reading your posts and hopefully they will continue.

I would much rather have someone flick their nose in my direction that pass gas in my direction..... :rofl:


----------



## BocaBum99

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> BocaBum,
> 
> I work for Spinaker resorts, Hilton Head Island, SC.  All sales reps are currently making 20% flat commision, no bonus due to the economy.  There is a sales "spiff" each month (the escalators you mention) that allows the occasional extra 5%...
> 
> Now to turn the magnifying glass back on YOU...
> 
> What do YOU do for a living??  You seem to know an AWFUL lot about this industry... "My friends told me..."etc...  BS!!!!
> 
> BS!!!!
> 
> Did you try your hand??  Did you get fired for low numbers BocaBUM??  Because your "friends" sound irritated.  Why WOULDN'T I post on here?  The "training manual"???  My training was a 12 person class, March 2008.  4 of us (the original class) are still there.
> 
> Call our corporate office.  Apply for a job.  Then you will be informed of the commision rates properly.  Until then, I flick my nose in your direction with my thumb!



If you want to know my background, go to my website.   I am a resale broker.  Since I am in the industry, I know a lot of people in it from all types of companies.  I attend ARDA and I travel a lot.  In 2007, I spent 23 weeks in timeshares.  I come from the telecom and high tech industries.  I spent 20 years there.  I ended up in timesharing as an accident.  I was in a high tech start up and we went on an investor road show to get the company funded.  We all worked remotely.  It got funded, but the CEO lives in St. Paul.  The investors wanted all of the executives to move to Minnesota.  I didn't want to do that, so I decided to give timeshare reselling a go.  I gave myself 2 years.  If I failed, I would go back to high tech.  That was a little over 3 years ago.  I'm still going strong.  Coming from High Tech, we are always evaluating everyone's business models to see where the opportunities and competitive threats are coming from.  So, I just do business model assessment for fun.  Ask anyone who knows me on TUG.  They will tell you that I was evaluating companies and their business models from day one.

I admire timeshare salesmen who are good at what they do mostly because I cannot do what they do.  I would be horrible at it.  I would never sell one.  On the resale market, the sales process is just the opposite.  You can tell the whole truth and timesharing is and can be everything they tell you in the sales presentation.  But, you can tell them the whole truth about it.  

I sleep at night because I know that an owner isn't going to wake up one day, need to sell their timeshare and find out that they are $15,000 underwater on their loan.  I know how the exchange companies work, so I listen to what people want to do with exchange and I can give them steer them away from potential mistakes they will make.   I do this all in an effort to ensure that these customers will have a positive experience in timeshare.  Not everyone does.  Those who don't use it, aren't thrilled with the experience.  But, at least they don't feel misled.

For what it's worth, I believe most of your story now.  You had the guts to come back and defend your story.  I respect that.   I just can't tell which part of it isn't true given that the numbers don't add up.  I will be in Hilton Head sometime in September as I am taking a 6 week trip mostly in the East Coast.  I will stop by your resort and check it out.  Let me know which Spinnaker it is.  I won't apply for a job.  I don't like to be tied to a single location.  And, I couldn't close a deal on front line sales if my life depended on it.  It's not for me.  But, I can close a resale deal.  I think I sold around 168 last year.


----------



## BocaBum99

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> You are let go within 15 tours if your APG falls below 1800.



I said the average close rate needs to be about 10% to keep employment.  Since most work on 100% commission or minimum wage when they don't sell, then they quit on their own.

If you make one sale in 10 tries (10% close rate) in a week at the average sales price of $21,500, then their APG is $2150.  So, my numbers are validated by your own example.


----------



## cheesehead

:ignore: Allright, i'm a "newbie" so please forgive my naivete.  My most recent experience with the TS people just reinforces what bocabum was saying.  

There was no free gift involved, I was simply asked to "answer a few questions about my experience with wyndham".   Of course this was a complete lie and turned into a sales pitch on "upgrading my ownership".  I am ashamed to admit i fell for it and even signed.   I was aprehesive about whether or not i could bear the financial burden.  I expressed this several times to the sales rep and his "manager"  but they worked their black magic and got me to sign.  Fortunately, I looked a little more closely at the document and saw the rescind period according to state statutes.  TS people must hate that they are required by law to have that in there. :annoyed:  I of course rescinded the contract 2 days later (15 min after getting home)
I made my 1st purchase through the developer and am happy i did (nothing out on the resale market yet) I do get a few perks that way.  I found this site after getting home and am learning a lot about TS. my next purchase will be resale and i won't be falling for their tricks again.

Sorry for rambling but my point is they lied to me (more than once) and didn't give a damn about anything but themselves.  Do you honestly expect anyone here to believe a single thing you post.  Or that you are trying to give them any sort of benefit from your "insight"?  As for the free gifts , I wouldn't want anything from the TS snakes, but why shouldn't people prey on them the way they prey on people? (didn't you mention something about karma in your original post?)

I know this was all covered already but i thought i would throw in my two cents  :deadhorse:


----------



## taffy19

This thread is a "must read" for every newbie who gets lured into a timeshare presentation because of greed, curiosity or whatever reason it may be. It should be a sticky.  

This whole industry needs a complete overhaul pretty soon as developers can no longer hide the fact that they are gouging the consumer because people are starting to figure it out with searching the internet before or right after signing a contract today which is a good thing. We need change and there have to be better ways than it is done today!

It should be spelled out in the contract multiple times that people are *not* buying *real estate* so they are aware that the value of their purchase drops 60 to 90% of the amount of money they just spent just like a car that you drive away from the car lot. Everyone is well aware of this but not with timeshares as they assume that they bought a little piece of real estate so should hold the value.  

This is why a timeshare re-sale sales person can sell with a good conscious and sleep well at night. Good for you, Jim. He also teaches us a lot in the forum here and OY too about the Bluegreen resorts and timeshare economics in general. I have learned a lot from him.


----------



## Laurie

iconnections said:


> It should be spelled out in the contract multiple times that people are *not* buying *real estate* so they are aware that the value of their purchase drops 60 to 90% of the amount of money they just spent just like a car that you drive away from the car lot. Everyone is well aware of this but not with timeshares as they assume that they bought a little piece of real estate so should hold the value.


That would be a great idea. Spoken or not, I'm sure this incorrect assumption contributes significantly to the number of unhappy and angry buyers/owners.

This was the outright lie that got me hooked during my first presentation - I specifically asked about resale values and appreciation, and was verbally quoted actual numbers and percentages on how much the Fairfield/Wyndham properties and points ownerships had appreciated already, and how much they were going up annually... and how all owners were keeping their timeshares forever, and there were no resales, because all the buyers knew that they could never in the future get back in at such great prices. 

(Thank heavens for Lycos and whatever the internet search engines were in early '97 - I found a phone number for ONE reseller of Fairfield points listed online, and called him - to learn that he was reselling these points at 1/3 the price I had just signed for.)


----------



## e.bram

Remember, if no developer sales, then no resales eventually.


----------



## Vacation Dude

The spinnaker resort in Bluewater looks pretty nice, but not worth whatever the retail price is.

http://www.spinnakerresorts.com/resorts/photos/1#


----------



## applegirl

e.bram said:


> Remember, if no developer sales, then no resales eventually.




I agree!   This always comes to mind when I read heated posts slaming developers.  I don't like it either that the sales tactics are not always honest, but if Marriott (where we own) didn't sell any developer weeks, then I wouldn't have access to the properties we love!

This is an interesting thread.  I hope newbie t/s sales guy keeps posting.  We are all learning something.

Janna


----------



## taffy19

Laurie said:


> That would be a great idea. Spoken or not, I'm sure this incorrect assumption contributes significantly to the number of unhappy and angry buyers/owners.
> 
> This was the outright lie that got me hooked during my first presentation - I specifically asked about resale values and appreciation, and was verbally quoted actual numbers and percentages on how much the Fairfield/Wyndham properties and points ownerships had appreciated already, and how much they were going up annually... and how all owners were keeping their timeshares forever, and there were no resales, because all the buyers knew that they could never in the future get back in at such great prices.
> 
> (Thank heavens for Lycos and whatever the internet search engines were in early '97 - I found a phone number for ONE reseller of Fairfield points listed online, and called him - to learn that he was reselling these points at 1/3 the price I had just signed for.)


Did you rescind or was it too late when you found this out?

I remember the Wyndham Group telling us exactly the same spiel too but they don't tell you that they are talking about their *own retail prices* and they have risen indeed so they are not telling you a lie technically but what they don't tell you is that it is a complete different story for the consumer. You sign the contract and the moment you walk away, your re-sale value is practically zilch. We didn't know this in the beginning as the internet wasn't there yet.

The Marriott Resorts have kept their value better over time than the Wyndham resorts but will it continue? I doubt it if they start differentiating between direct and re-sale buyers. Starwood is another good example of that and there may be more?

All Marriott timeshares will end up being a re-sale timeshare in the future unless they put a sales office in place so that you have the choice to go through them again and pay the hefty commission but if you keep it long enough, you will break even eventually.


----------



## taffy19

e.bram said:


> Remember, if no developer sales, then no resales eventually.


You don't have to rub it in constantly because of you, I hope that the Marriott will protect their direct buyers so you cannot take advantage of us who bought direct and may be forced to sell one day. Quite a few people here bought direct but there may be reasons for that or they may not have known that there was a re-sale market.

Just stop rubbing it in. You sound like a vulture striking down on us.


----------



## NWL

iconnections said:


> You don't have to rub it in constantly because of you, I hope that the Marriott will protect their direct buyers so you cannot take advantage of us who bought direct and may be forced to sell one day. Quite a few people here bought direct but there may be reasons for that or they may not have known that there was a re-sale market.
> 
> Just stop rubbing it in. You sound like a vulture striking down on us.



I could be wrong (certainly not the first time!), but I don't think e.bram meant it as a slight.  I think he/she was just stating an obvious fact.  

Cheers!


----------



## Jaybee

Alan...That was so smooth....You slid it right in there. Touche!
Steve...great addition... LOL!:hysterical: 




AwayWeGo said:


> You've inadvertently revealed much about yourself.  From the self portrait you've put forward here, I can only imagine that your prior life as an artist mainly featured Elvis on black velvet.


----------



## Jaybee

This has been an interesting read.  One thing that newbiewhatzizname said really got my attention...that one of the requirements is "No one over 70".  Hah! That's a bunch of bovine feces.  I'm 76, and my husband will be 78 this year.  When we have been pressured into a "presentation", I've made a point of telling them how old we are.  Usually we just get a ridiculous comment such as, "Really?  You look much younger", and (to cop a phrase) Away we Go!  Give me a break.  There is NO age maximum.


----------



## James1975NY

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...
> 
> After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.
> 
> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...
> 
> WHY????
> 
> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...
> 
> Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> (ignorant and rude comment removed)
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.



I am not sure you should be concerned with anyone attending a presentation and getting compensated for their time. I would focus your energy on your developer/resort and see what they can do with their marketing efforts. After all, it was your employer that opened that channel up.

What is wrong with a free steak or tickets to a theme park?


----------



## dougp26364

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...
> 
> After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.
> 
> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...
> 
> WHY????
> 
> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...
> 
> Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> (ignorant and rude comment removed)
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.




In the FWIW column:

Normally, we do say no. After nearly 11 years of timesharing I rarely feel the need to do an "owners update" and the certificates or Visa gift cards aren't worth my time. 

On the other hand, when will timeshare sales departments stop pestering me to attend another owners update? Diamond Resorts has always called us ahead of time requesting we attend an "update" with the offer of freebies. Marriott always offers us a small gift to stop by the conceirge who then attempts to get us to attend an "owners update." Countless timeshares require that you go to another desk to get you parking pass where you are encouraged to attend a "90 minute" sales preview for show tickets, restaurant certificates or cash. Heck, some timeshare sales departments call the unit daily to get you to attend or, some have even started sending reps by to the units to get you to attend. I know one that is sending reps by to owners homes to get them to upgrade. 

Here's a thought. Why not make the suggestion to your sales manager that the resort hold a weekly "owners update" that focuses on using and maximizing the week(s) they already own WITHOUT the obligatory sales presentation. No free gifts, no mandatory time limit, just information. I own at one company that does this and, I'll attend those presentations from time to time because I'll pick up the information I want WITHOUT wasting anyone's time. The only reason I'll attend a sales presentation is if I truely need to be updated on changes made by the company. The gifts are secondary. I don't turn them down if offered but, I also don't need them and would give them up if we could skip the sales part of the presentation and just talk about the resort, where it's going, what's being done, what's changed recently and answer any questions I might have. But, I bet you'd get frustrated wasting your time on people who had no desire to purchase rather than getting to present your sales pitch.

So, short of complaining, what do YOU recommend your employer do?


----------



## tmancanada

To the OP: 

I can see things from your perspective, having worked in the sales field. It's very frustrating to NOT sell things and easy to turn 'time wasters' into the enemy and formulate a very biased opinion towards their methods. In an ideal world, people would join your sales presentations ONLY to purchase. However, as others have posted, most of the people that sit in these presentations are either tricked or harassed into going. I would say a very small percentage of the people that attend these meetings do so out of greed. And for those people, you can't fault them. I mean, you're basically trying to attract them by offering them an incentive to begin with. 

Timeshare sales is definitely a high pressure sales job and it sounds like you might need a break. It's not a career job. In fact, I don't think there's much research behind this, but I can see this being one of the highest turnover rates for a job out there. 



HomePage
http://www.timeshares4dummies.com


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## bobcat

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...
> 
> After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.
> 
> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...
> 
> WHY????
> 
> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...
> 
> Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> (ignorant and rude comment removed)
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.


 CHARM SCHOOL WILL NOT EVEN HELP YOU.


----------



## tombo

iconnections said:


> I hope that the Marriott will protect their direct buyers so you cannot take advantage of us who bought direct and may be forced to sell one day.
> 
> :



If you ever find yourself having to sell your week, you had better hope that Marriott doesn't punish resale buyers. If they ever do limit reservation windows on resale purchases or do something else to make resales less attractive, what you personally own will become worth a lot less when you go to sell. Everyone who has a week to sell will be punished because their weeks will be worth less and the weeks will be harder to sell whether the weeks were originally purchased developer or resale.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*How?  And Why ?*




iconnections said:


> I hope that the Marriott will protect their direct buyers so you cannot take advantage of us who bought direct and may be forced to sell one day.


Ownership is ownership. 

Title deeds are title deeds -- _mox nix_ whether originally purchased from some timeshare company or resale from some individual owner.  The property is the same either way -- & remains the same no matter how many times it changes hands. 

Once a piece of property is launched & sent out into the world via deed, what on earth could the original seller (i.e., the timeshare company) do that might in any way "protect" the original owner ?

And why should original owners deserve or receive any different protection from what all subsequent owners in due course can also receive ? 

No way preferential treatment for original timeshare owners can be justified.

Resale timeshare owners are not 2nd class citz. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## dougp26364

AwayWeGo said:


> Resale timeshare owners are not 2nd class citz.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​




You might be correct but, in the eye's of developers, I'm afraid they are. It doesn't matter if you want to acknowledge that fact or not, developers will use whatever means they can to discourage resale purchases in favor of developer purchases.

When you get right down to it, developers don't care what happens to owners after they buy. They only care about their bottom line and how to make more sales, thus making more money. Anything that doesn't make them money or, costs them money, is contrary to their primary goal of turning a profit. 

If Marriott wants to slap resale owners with a 6 month reservation window for their deeded resort week, people are going to scream and there could/probably be a class action lawsuit filed against them. But, if they want to limit resale buyers to a 6 month internal exchange priviledge, that's well within their rights and, it's treating resale buyers like second class citizens. 

Diamond Resorts prevents resale buyers from participating in their internal exchange program completely unless you either buy something at developer pricing or, pay a "joiner" fee of $2,995. In a way, that's treating resale owners like second class citizens by denying them access to internal exchanges and forcing them to join I.I., pay Intervals membership fee and then pay Interval's exchange fee rather than allowing resale owners the right to use DRI's internal exchange program. IMO, that's treating resale owners like second class citizens.

You might not like it but, developers can and do treat resale owners differently than those that have paid developer pricing. They will continue to explore methods to "enhance" ownership for direct purchasers as an attempt to discourage resale purchases. Is this right? No, but that's the way timeshares work.


----------



## timeos2

*Penalties, ROFR - the owners gets hosed in the end*



tombo said:


> If you ever find yourself having to sell your week, you had better hope that Marriott doesn't punish resale buyers. If they ever do limit reservation windows on resale purchases or do something else to make resales less attractive, what you personally own will become worth a lot less when you go to sell. Everyone who has a week to sell will be punished because their weeks will be worth less and the weeks will be harder to sell whether the weeks were originally purchased developer or resale.



The fact that owners ARE the source of all resales - thus anything that hurts resale value hurts THEM - is somehow overlooked by almost everyone who "supports" the idea of ROFR and/or "resale punishment".  They somehow think it levels the playing field when reslae buyers have to pay in lost rights or use penalties because they took advantage of the wide spread between resale and retail while the original buyer - and every week has one - takes a bath.  While you own it may somehow comfort you to think those grubby resale buyers are being penalized but when the day comes to sell they find out "We are Them". Too late if their push to punish has been successful but, fortunately, there are laws to actually protect buyers from having their value diminished. 

The only thing working against that protection is ROFR which is why I advise all buyers to avoid any resort / system that has that monster attached.  Although it's basically a dead issue now - as any seller is finding out when they NEED it there is no ROFR to seemingly raise values - and it is out in the open now how little even the best reputation timeshares sell for at market pricing. When ROFR was being used the result was hidden but actually nothing has changed. The seller - those who want the resale penalties that force prices even lower - get the low price either way and never seem to realize what they have done to themselves until its far too late.


----------



## BocaBum99

How did a thread about a timeshare salesman's purported sales approach turn into another ROFR debate?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Debate Is Over.*




BocaBum99 said:


> How did a thread about a timeshare salesman's purported sales approach turn into another ROFR debate?


ROFR *=* ROFL 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

dougp26364 said:


> Diamond Resorts prevents resale buyers from participating in their internal exchange program completely unless you either buy something at developer pricing or, pay a "joiner" fee of $2,995.  .



Which is why I will never own a Diamond Resorts week. There are far too many resorts out there to be treated poorly as an owner after buying resale. Resale owners pay the same MF's and assessments as retail buyers do, we deserve the same rights. No I don't have to put up with their rules because I don't have to buy at any resort that has different rules for retail and resale buyers. If you buy developer from a resort that is very resale unfriendly, remember that you will some day have their anti-resale rules used against you when you sell.

It does make owners at the resort feel better about paying developer prices since they get benefits that the lowly resale buyers don't receive.The problem is that if you ever want to sell your week, you have knocked many resale buyers like myself out of the market since we want to be treated as owners at resorts we "own". The $2995 fee that many are glad about will reduce the price people will pay for a Diamond resort week. When resale owners are penalized what you own is worth less and harder to sell because face it you will someday be selling a resale week.

Someday you or your children will want to (or have to) sell your week. When that day comes remember that whether you originally bought retail or resale, WHAT YOU WILL BE SELLING IS A RESALE WEEK. Developers hate all resale weeks, and that includes the weeks that you purchased from them retail once you decide to sell them resale.


----------



## Vacation Dude

BocaBum99 said:


> How did a thread about a timeshare salesman's purported sales approach turn into another ROFR debate?



Because it has been 4 days since the "Original Poster's" last post. Perhaps he is too busy giving tours, closing deals, and counting his money to post.


----------



## dougp26364

BocaBum99 said:


> How did a thread about a timeshare salesman's purported sales approach turn into another ROFR debate?




I was sort of wondering about that myself. I guess debating a timeshare salesman's opinion of those looking for freebies when it's his own employer that encourages that sort of behavior took a back seat to something more interesting.

After all, OP's complaining about the very thing that gets people in front of him so he can hit that 39% closing ratio and make that 6 figure income. Sort of like the chickens complaining about how the farmer tosses out the chicken feed if you ask me. He's not having to go out and get his own prospects but he's complaining about how someone else brings prospect to him. Either he needs to stop accepting those prospects and go out and find his own or, he needs to shut up and keep selling.


----------



## dougp26364

tombo said:


> Which is why I will never own a Diamond Resorts week. There are far too many resorts out there to be treated poorly as an owner after buying resale. Resale owners pay the same MF's and assessments as retail buyers do, we deserve the same rights. No I don't have to put up with their rules because I don't have to buy at any resort that has different rules for retail and resale buyers. If you buy developer from a resort that is very resale unfriendly, remember that you will some day have their anti-resale rules used against you when you sell.
> 
> It does make owners at the resort feel better about paying developer prices since they get benefits that the lowly resale buyers don't receive.The problem is that if you ever want to sell your week, you have knocked many resale buyers like myself out of the market since we want to be treated as owners at resorts we "own". The $2995 fee that many are glad about will reduce the price people will pay for a Diamond resort week. When resale owners are penalized what you own is worth less and harder to sell because face it you will someday be selling a resale week.
> 
> Someday you or your children will want to (or have to) sell your week. When that day comes remember that whether you originally bought retail or resale, WHAT YOU WILL BE SELLING IS A RESALE WEEK. Developers hate all resale weeks, and that includes the weeks that you purchased from them retail once you decide to sell them resale.




But the point was, despite what Away-We-go might want to believe, resale buyers are sometimes treated like second class citizens. Most developers that have systems or internal exchange programs will eventually get around to "punishing" resale buyers in some fashion. Heck, I can't think of one system that doesn't in some way prohibit resale buyers from full participation in every aspect of their program.


----------



## tombo

dougp26364 said:


> But the point was, despite what Away-We-go might want to believe, resale buyers are sometimes treated like second class citizens. Most developers that have systems or internal exchange programs will eventually get around to "punishing" resale buyers in some fashion. Heck, I can't think of one system that doesn't in some way prohibit resale buyers from full participation in every aspect of their program.



I can't think of a single resort or chain that actually does prohibit resale buyers from full participation.
Some like Diamond charge a fee to resale buyers, but none I know of restrict resale owners any access that retail buyers get (not counting Marriott points which is not a deal worth buying developer IMO).

Please name some resorts and how they punish resale buyers because I own over 20 weeks at 15 different resorts, I purchased all resale, and I have every right that any retail purchaser has at each and every one of my resorts. If you know of anti-resale rules at different resorts please detail them here so I won't ever screw up and buy a week resale at any of those locations.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Don't Let D. R. I. Scare You Off.*




tombo said:


> Which is why I will never own a Diamond Resorts week. There are far too many resorts out there to be treated poorly as an owner after buying resale.


Shux, we own 2 of'm -- well, 1½ actually, considering that 1 is EEY -- & the DRI club (formerly Club SunTerra) is a complete non-factor in our experience & our enjoyment of our timeshares, as well as a complete non-starter because buying a membership leaves the purchaser with nothing that can be resold later when the owner is done with it. 

We go to our DRI timeshares & check in when we want, we deposit them with RCI for exchange any year we choose, & some years we rent'm out for cash -- all without any DRI involvement whatsoever.  

Not only that, both timeshares are independently managed by owner-controlled HOA-BODs which voted out timeshare company management way before DRI ever took over SunTerra.

The only interaction we ever have with DRI is when their timeshare sellers try to inveigle us into attending stealth timeshare sales pitches disguised as owner updates. 

DRI may think of us as 2nd class citz., but our ownership & use are 1st class all the way. 

The timeshare company can go whistle. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Whoa!  Tombo Bought Full-Freight Timeshares? Who'd A-Thunk ?*




tombo said:


> I own over 20 weeks at 15 different resorts, I purchased all retail, and I have every right that any retail purchaser has at each and every one of my resorts.


I'm guessing you meant to type that you bought'm all resale. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## tombo

AwayWeGo said:


> I'm guessing you meant to type that you bought'm all resale.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Typo!!!!!! I have never purchased one retail. Thanks for catching my mistake. I have changed it.


----------



## BocaBum99

tombo said:


> I can't think of a single resort or chain that actually does prohibit resale buyers from full participation.
> Some like Diamond charge a fee to resale buyers, but none I know of restrict resale owners any access that retail buyers get (not counting Marriott points which is not a deal worth buying developer IMO).
> 
> Please name some resorts and how they punish resale buyers because I own over 20 weeks at 15 different resorts, I purchased all resale, and I have every right that any retail purchaser has at each and every one of my resorts. If you know of anti-resale rules at different resorts please detail them here so I won't ever screw up and buy a week resale at any of those locations.



VIP benefits in Wyndham.  Elite status in Hilton.  Rewards points in Marriott.  Premier benefits in Bluegreen.  Travelshare in WorldMark.  RCI Points features in Shell.  Club features in Diamond. 

Most resort groups have a class of features that owners only get when they purchase directly from the developer.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*All Sizzle.  Not 1 Bite Of Steak.*




BocaBum99 said:


> VIP benefits in Wyndham.  Elite status in Hilton.  Rewards points in Marriott.  Premier benefits in Bluegreen.  Travelshare in WorldMark.  RCI Points features in Shell.  Club features in Diamond.


Might be worth a little something, I don't know, but not the thousands of dollars over resale prices that the full-freight buyers lay out for those features. 

Plus, resale owners can do without any or all of those frills without experiencing any diminution whatever in their timeshare ownership experience. 

The timeshare companies can still go whistle. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## BocaBum99

AwayWeGo said:


> Might be worth a little something, I don't know, but not the thousands of dollars over resale prices that the full-freight buyers lay out for those features.
> 
> Plus, resale owners can do without any or all of those frills without experiencing any diminution whatever in their timeshare ownership experience.
> 
> The timeshare companies can still go whistle.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



You make a generalization that is NOT true in all cases.  I've probably made more timeshare purchases than most on this board and there are circumstances when I make purchases from the developer to get access to certain developer features.

Let's test your thesis.  Start a new thread in the Marriott forum entitled, "there is NO circumstance when buying retail from Marriott makes sense.  Only buy resale."  You will get over 100 posts with a significant percentage of responders vehemently disagreeing with you.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Been There.  Done That.*




BocaBum99 said:


> Start a new thread in the Marriott forum entitled, "there is NO circumstance when buying retail from Marriott makes sense.  Only buy resale."  You will get over 100 posts with a significant percentage of responders vehemently disagreeing with you.


Way ahead of you. 

Click here for some recent TUG-BBS back & forth on that very topic. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Vacation Dude

dougp26364 said:


> But the point was, despite what Away-We-go might want to believe, resale buyers are sometimes treated like second class citizens. Most developers that have systems or internal exchange programs will eventually get around to "punishing" resale buyers in some fashion. Heck, I can't think of one system that doesn't in some way prohibit resale buyers from full participation in every aspect of their program.



Have you heard of DVC?

They treat everyone the same.



tombo said:


> I can't think of a single resort or chain that actually does prohibit resale buyers from full participation.
> Some like Diamond charge a fee to resale buyers, but none I know of restrict resale owners any access that retail buyers get (not counting Marriott points which is not a deal worth buying developer IMO).
> 
> Please name some resorts and how they punish resale buyers because I own over 20 weeks at 15 different resorts, I purchased all resale, and I have every right that any retail purchaser has at each and every one of my resorts. If you know of anti-resale rules at different resorts please detail them here so I won't ever screw up and buy a week resale at any of those locations.



I am not aware of anything new DVC owners get (other than their name on a tapestry or fountain if they are founding owners) that resale owners don't get.

There are a few silly things that new owners get like a backpack, towels, handful of fastpasses, perhaps a cruise as a bonus, but after the sale, all DVC owners are treated the same.


----------



## timeos2

*There are no differences except price*



BocaBum99 said:


> VIP benefits in Wyndham.  Elite status in Hilton.  Rewards points in Marriott.  Premier benefits in Bluegreen.  Travelshare in WorldMark.  RCI Points features in Shell.  Club features in Diamond.
> 
> Most resort groups have a class of features that owners only get when they purchase directly from the developer.



But all of those are optional - none part of the sales rights granted when the retail purchase is made. Thats the underlying point. No developer can (although we know Westgate will certainly try) take away any deeded rights he sells. They can and do offer "perks" - subject to change (and they do, usually downward) that are NOT a guaranteed part of the sale. Paying any premium for those is a fools game as you have zero claim to it the day after you sign should they unilaterally change the rules. 

As for what the actual ownership rights are no developer or system can make a distinction between resale and retail buyers as once you bought you are guaranteed those services / use and can resell them to another buyer (the dreaded resale!).  That's what the 400+ pages of disclosure spell out and even Westgate can't undo.


----------



## BocaBum99

Vacation Dude said:


> Have you heard of DVC?
> 
> They treat everyone the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not aware of anything new DVC owners get (other than their name on a tapestry or fountain if they are founding owners) that resale owners don't get.
> 
> There are a few silly things that new owners get like a backpack, towels, handful of fastpasses, perhaps a cruise as a bonus, but after the sale, all DVC owners are treated the same.



Disney is one of the only resort groups that don't have features exclusive to the developer.  Disney can do it because it has done an excellent job in keeping rental rates up at the Disney theme park resorts.  As soon as those rates start dropping (if ever), then the value of DVC points will follow.

My thesis about timeshare resales is that stability in prices depends in large part on resort developers keeping rental rates at their resorts high and maintenance fees low in relationship to what owners get so that there is a real cost/benefit of owning vs. renting.


----------



## BocaBum99

timeos2 said:


> But all of those are optional - none part of the sales rights granted when the retail purchase is made. Thats the underlying point. No developer can (although we know Westgate will certainly try) take away any deeded rights he sells. They can and do offer "perks" - subject to change (and they do, usually downward) that are NOT a guaranteed part of the sale. Paying any premium for those is a fools game as you have zero claim to it the day after you sign should they unilaterally change the rules.
> 
> As for what the actual ownership rights are no developer or system can make a distinction between resale and retail buyers as once you bought you are guaranteed those services / use and can resell them to another buyer (the dreaded resale!).  That's what the 400+ pages of disclosure spell out and even Westgate can't undo.



Or course they can't take away deeded rights.  That would violate real estate law.  That's not the point.  The point is that virtually all resort group developers have features they withhold and sell to new owners so that they can keep a perception of a differentiated product bought directly from them.  It doesn't matter if it is real or not to those on this message board.  It matters if it is differentiated to the buyer and time of purchase.  It clearly is.

The key job of the timeshare salesman is to scare the tour to buy now for fear of losing some great deal.  They also use the same fear tactics to scare buyers from purchasing resale by claiming the product is somehow damaged when it is purchased resale.  It works.


----------



## Vacation Dude

BocaBum99 said:


> The key job of the timeshare salesman is to scare the tour to buy now for fear of losing some great deal.  They also use the same fear tactics to scare buyers from purchasing resale by claiming the product is somehow damaged when it is purchased resale.  It works.



Very strange.

Timeshares are sold as deeded real estate instead of buying a home or condo, etc.

Imagine if we treated resale buyers of HOMES the same way. Sorry, you can't swim in your own pool as you did not buy from the builder.


----------



## timeos2

*And it starts with the sleazy sales approach*



Vacation Dude said:


> Very strange.
> 
> Timeshares are sold as deeded real estate instead of buying a home or condo, etc.
> 
> Imagine if we treated resale buyers of HOMES the same way. Sorry, you can't swim in your own pool as you did not buy from the builder.



Thats why there really isn't anything you as a buyer can obtain RETAIL that you don't also get RESALE. The whole point being made. To pretend there is plays to fears not reality. And the so called perks (or penalties depending on your view) are all non-written promises that are worth exactly the value of the paper they are not written on. Zero. Yet the games that the OP plays means some will be tricked into paying a grossly inflated cost for exactly the same ownership rights that a resale purchaser can get for 50% or more less. As Boca correctly states there can be NO differences by law. That which you don't legally pay for & thus cannot legally resell (VIP, early checkin rtimes, etc) are not part of the sale and are strictly offered as bonuses. Why anyone would risk a premium of 50%+ to get those completely voluntary (ion the seller side) perks is way beyond me. You are paying (BIG!) for empty and unenforceable promises. Ask those who bough into Wyndham for VIP or Marriott for the points - the value just isn't there.


----------



## tombo

BocaBum99 said:


> VIP benefits in Wyndham.  Elite status in Hilton.  Rewards points in Marriott.  Premier benefits in Bluegreen.  Travelshare in WorldMark.  RCI Points features in Shell.  Club features in Diamond.
> 
> Most resort groups have a class of features that owners only get when they purchase directly from the developer.



I knew about those, but to the best of my knowledge owning a week or 2 won't qualify you to be VIP, Elite, or Premier. Doesn't it take many weeks or mega points to obtain those levels even if you do purchase retail?

I am not familiar with Club features in Diamond, RCI points in Shell, or Travelshare in Worldmark. Do those actually give an advantage to someone who owns one week purchased retail over one week purchased resale?


----------



## timeos2

tombo said:


> I knew about those, but to the best of my knowledge owning a week or 2 won't qualify you to be VIP, Elite, or Premier. Doesn't it take many weeks or mega points to obtain those levels even if you do purchase retail?
> 
> I am not familiar with Club features in Diamond, RCI points in Shell, or Travelshare in Worldmark. Do those actually give an advantage to someone who owns one week purchased retail over one week purchased resale?



Correct.

No.  No system can give advantage to one owner over another except as it relates to any time / use restrictions as agreed to in the sales documents. Diamond now makes it virtually impossible to get into their (optional) exchange system (The Club) unless you pay them retail and/or give up your deeded rights but that still isn't based on retail or resale purchase as it is an option not the base purchase paid for. It would be similar if you looked at all the other systems.  Whatever you purchased as the base deal you can sell and the buyer gets the exact same rights of use. It is the very basis of property sales.


----------



## BocaBum99

timeos2 said:


> Correct.
> 
> No.  No system can give advantage to one owner over another except as it relates to any time / use restrictions as agreed to in the sales documents. Diamond now makes it virtually impossible to get into their (optional) exchange system (The Club) unless you pay them retail and/or give up your deeded rights but that still isn't based on retail or resale purchase as it is an option not the base purchase paid for. It would be similar if you looked at all the other systems.  Whatever you purchased as the base deal you can sell and the buyer gets the exact same rights of use. It is the very basis of property sales.



Yes, resort group developers are trying to create differentiated products through internal exchange networks.  Sure you get the deeded benefits of your resort if you buy it resale, but you may not gain access to its internal exchange network.

I believe even Marriott is headed in this direction with its widely rumored internal exchange network.  Sad really..... until someone else creates a better exchange network...


----------



## applegirl

Newbietimesharesalesman where are you?!?!?!?!

Janna


----------



## roadtriper

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Ok, Here we go...
> 
> I am not "afraid" to post again.  I meant every word I said.  I love the disbelief the MOST.  Yes, I closed 39% over the last 90 days.  YES, I make much more money than doctors and lawyers my same age (and I never graduated college).  Yes, the system is designed (and we are trained) to entice our guests "Dominant Buying Motive", and they often become VERY upset upon learning of the savings of buying RESALE!  YES, I am honest on my presentations.  The only thing that I don't come right out and say is "don't buy this timeshare, you can get the same thing for 10% of the cost on ebay or a re-sale website..." but WHY WOULD I??  I too have a family to feed.  And you had better believe that I want them eating STEAK and SHRIMP!!
> 
> Do any of you HONESTLY think that LAWYERS are not in the SAME BOAT AS TIMESHARE SALESPEOPLE????!?!?!?  Defense lawyers are the BIGGEST SCUMBAGS THAT LIVE.  Some people don't remember that all the time.
> 
> I wanted to vent, and I did.  I absolutely LOVED your responses.  Because it gave some of you the chance to vent as well.
> 
> I am truly SORRY that your sales reps lied to you.  I am SORRY for those of you whose ownership doesn't work out the way it was presented.  But I hold true to my disdain for those of you (NOT ALL OF YOU) who will repeatedly accept the bribes and take presentations.  I loved an early response that said it was "the timeshare company's marketing that DRAGGED us in here promising gifts" or "they won't stop calling about an "owner update"...  AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE DONE AT LEAST ONE OF THESE PRESENTATIONS BEFORE.  You know darn well what an "owner update" entails.  JUST SAY NO.  Don't be GREEDY and do a presentation for the gifts, even if you feel entitlement because of the missed opportunity to buy re-sale.  It is not the company's fault for not educating you on your buying options before YOU accepted bribes to take a presentation.  If I was buying a new car, you had better BELIEVE that I would explore all the options.  I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy something within 3 hours.  EVER.  So I understand the angry responses.  You are mad at yourselves for being WEAK and being HUMAN.
> 
> And that is what I am getting into in the next section of my post...
> 
> The REAL DEAL.
> 
> We (TS salesman) are TRAINED to extract every dollar possible on these presentations.  It is down to an exact science, tried and tested and proven to work 20% of the time on average.  We are TRAINED to extract a "Dominant Buying Motive" from every client, and ride that until the client gets frustrated and leaves, or purchases.  This "training" is put into place upon getting hired, and is much like a high-pressure presentation in itself...  Two weeks of intense training, where every day you can be fired for ONE comment to the negative aspect of buying/owning TS.  ONE comment.  We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time.  "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do."  That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT.  That is why the TS industry offers free gifts.  Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.
> 
> Here is a typical day at work (just to let you folks in on the darkside of the timeshare industry) - I will give you a rundown of what happens behind the scenes, and then I will tell you what I modified to keep my sanity and karma intact... Please feel free to distribute this information to those who plan on attending their first presentation...
> 
> 1.  Morning meeting (typically takes place 45 minutes before the first wave of tours)
> 
> The project director pumps everyone up by yelling "GOOD MORNING ______!!!!!!(fill in name of company)"  Then he/she announces each representatives sales from the previous day to resounding applause.  The representatives clap and yell praise, mainly because we all make 20%-25% commision on every sale.  Thats a LOT of money.  They then single out representatives who they feel "missed" deals.  They reiterate the fact that each and every guest couple are MAKING A PACT AT THAT VERY MOMENT NOT TO BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS, and that our job for the day is to turn those people around.  They remind the sales staff of the monthly contest, and announce the leaders (last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place.  Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money.  Third place recieved $750.)  This pumps everyone up and gets them ready for the presentation.
> 
> 2.  First wave
> 
> You take your presentation, hopefully resulting in a sale.  If you do sell, you may go home.  After all, the average sales price at my resort for a red week is $21,500.  That's a $4,300 average commision for 3-4 hours work.  Enough money to literally make you sick.  If you do not sell, you are put into a "de-briefing" to see what you missed and to go over your personal numbers.  If a sales rep takes 10 tours without making 2 sales he/she is put into a probationary status and can be let go.  Talk about high pressure!  You have no idea...  As of late, I have had no problem keeping my job.  A lot of the anger I see in your responses probably comes from the fact that TS salespeople make much more money than society's doctors, lawyers and the such.  I understand your frustrations.  Believe me, TS organizations are always hiring.  Come on in and apply!!
> 
> To keep my sanity through all of this, I do not follow the "Steps of the TS Sale".  I will lay these steps out to all of you as well, as this has now turned into a sort of confessional LOL.  I modify the steps so I don't have to talk people into a sale, I let folks talk themselves into the sale.  They simply buy what they "need".  As far as I am concerned, I am not faulting them...  There is nothing I love more than making a hefty commision on a snotty, arrogant lawyer or doctor who already owns too much timeshare.  On the other hand, if I determine that my guests simply could not AFFORD or USE what I am selling, I _FLAT OUT TELL THEM WITHIN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES...  This way, we can just sit there and talk about the weather, art, politics, etc., as opposed to trying to talk them into buying something outside of their comfort zone.  The only occasional guilt that I feel is not talking about re-sale.  But WHY SHOULD I???  After all, that guilt or anxiety is SQUASHED when I pick up a tour that is arrogant, and just there for the gifts after doing 4 other presentations within 2 days of a "family" vacation.  Those people, dragging their kids and wives around to 4 different resorts to take advantage of free gifts.  To me, those people are open game.  Nature vs. nurture.  That is the purpose of my original post.  STOP DOING PRESENTATIONS.  That way, you take yourself out of the loop.
> 
> Anyway, here are the "Steps of the TS Sale".
> 
> 1 - Meet and Greet (designed to break down original sales defenses)
> 
> 2 - Warm Up (essentially making friends with your guests, asking about kids, jobs, lesiure activities, vacation habits, hobbies, etc. - designed to further break down sales defense)  This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year.  You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets.  Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS.  But I feel as if sometimes these families really NEED the gifts in order to give their kids a vacation.  Times are tough.  So I NEVER "NQ" them.  Instead, upon finding out they don't meet our requirements I sit and talk with them about nothing for the required time, and gift them just like a tour that said "no".  I tell them right off the bat that I know why they came in, and that the next rep they sit in front of will surely kick them out.  Hopefully they learn from the experience, but probably not.  At least I can sleep at night.
> 
> 3 - BREAK THE PACT
> "John and Mary, we KNOW that you had a talk before coming in here, saying to each other WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.  All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not rule anything out until you understand the concept of our program.  Is that fair to ask?"  We are required to get a handshake as commitment and NOT MOVE ON until the guests agree to keep an open mind".   This is designed to break down the PACT that all of you made before you went on the presentation that you bought on.  It obviously worked on all of you!!
> 
> 4 - Intent Statement (basically telling your guests that they have to make a choice while they are there on your presentation.  There is no "think about it".  "At the end of the presentation I will ask your opinion.  A simple yes or no.  If you have to "think about it" then we have to file that in the "no" catagory, and you are not eligible to take a presentation with our company for 18 months."  This is designed to create urgency and to better your chances of a sale.  I COMPLETELY SKIP THIS.  I believe that if the people I sit in front of really could use this program, then they will buy it today.  Our managers make it SEEM like a very good deal without mentioning re-sale.  Again, for a family that can't afford or use it, I don't even call a manager.  But GOD HELP the arrogant rich guy.  He's going to ultimately pay ME my $1,100 hourly wage.  Well, actually not every time LOL.  39% of the time it works EVERY TIME...
> 
> 5 - Discovery (asking questions and vacation habits.  Most importantly HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING RENTING HOTEL ROOMS - this figure is used against the clients in the next section)
> 
> 6 - Rent VS Own (comparing what the client will potentially spend over the course of their lives (and childrens lives) RENTING hotel/resorts.  Usually if the client is used to spending $150 - $200 per night on hotel accomodations for 2-3 weeks of vacation per year, then they are spending $2,100 - $2,800 annually on JUST THEIR ACCOMODATIONS.  Over ten years they will spend $21,000 - $28,000 BEFORE INFLATION and that does not include activites or FOOD while vacationing.  Obviously most folks are at the age where they have 20 to 30 years of vacationing left.  With an average inflation rate of 5% annually, compounded over 20 - 30 years, the costs of RENTING ACCOMODATIONS is staggering.  Thus the logic of ownership.
> 
> I usually don't spend much time on this, as seasoned TS vets know exactly what I am doing with those numbers.  Remember, you are going to say "no" no matter what, right?
> 
> 7 - Property Tour (it sells itself.  Pro golf course.  Beach front units.  Brand new appliances.  Water park for kids.  Jet skis.  Grocery store.  Amen.)
> 
> 8 - Money.  we are trained to call a manager over to go over the costs.  At that point it is crystal clear whether or not they have any interest.  At the end of each step above, we ask "trial close" questions in order to keep the client saying "yes".  If they say "no" to a trial close, then we do not move on, even if it means gifting them and getting them out of there.
> 
> I do not use trial closes.  It is too mechanical.  Again, people that have been on these things KNOW why I'm asking.  If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me.  The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have it.  The inside scoop.  Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world.  But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE.  You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER.  If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO.  But don't get MAD at TS salespeople.  JUST SAY NO.
> 
> And to address the people who thought I was lying about my close %.  That is a 90 day roll.  Numbers change.  If I looked at the year I have been doing this the number is closer to 28%-31%.  Still fantastic in the eyes of upper management.  And I'll tell you what.  The year before I took this job I grossed $41,000 roughly.  I made that LAST MONTH selling YOU PEOPLE timeshares.  So enjoy!!!!!!!!   And for the love of god, DON'T TAKE PRESENTATIONS.
> 
> Have a nice day!_


_

Your post is very informative, and I do believe you are privy to inside info on timeshare sales But... Still not buying the math!  your first post said 39% over the first 11 months. even looking at the past 90 days. your figures indicate you are selling a timeshare a day at $4000 +/- commision each   that's 20K +/- a Week, 80K +/- a month  ! Million $$$  +/- a year ???  even with a 50% resission rate, thats a half a million a year???  and your here why???   give me a break!   if I was making a 1/2 million a year selling timeshares I'd have everyone I know out on the street giving away steak dinners to get people in my cubicle to put the pressure to them!    RT_


----------



## Vacation Dude

applegirl said:


> Newbietimesharesalesman where are you?!?!?!?!
> 
> Janna



He is too busy counting all his money made from "marks"


----------



## BocaBum99

roadtriper said:


> Your post is very informative, and I do believe you are privy to inside info on timeshare sales But... Still not buying the math!  your first post said 39% over the first 11 months. even looking at the past 90 days. your figures indicate you are selling a timeshare a day at $4000 +/- commision each   that's 20K +/- a Week, 80K +/- a month  ! Million $$$  +/- a year ???  even with a 50% resission rate, thats a half a million a year???  and your here why???   give me a break!   if I was making a 1/2 million a year selling timeshares I'd have everyone I know out on the street giving away steak dinners to get people in my cubicle to put the pressure to them!    RT



It's even better than that.  He is claiming that he never lies.  He just follows the process he outlined and the product sells itself.   He is the one and only honest resort timeshare salesman in the world.

He forgot to mention in the sales training they specifically say that timeshares do NOT sell themselves like Hondas.  If they did, they would hire hourly employees to take orders.


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## bnoble

> last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place. Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money. Third place recieved $750.


Who else is thinking about Glengarry Glen Ross?

_Coffe's for closers._


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## SpikeMauler

bnoble said:


> Who else is thinking about Glengarry Glen Ross?
> 
> _Coffe's for closers._



Yes! I was trying to think of the name of that movie 
Here's the Alec Baldwin Glenngary Glenn Ross Speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY

First Prize is a Cadillac
Second Prize is a set of knives
Third Prize is Your Fired


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## tombo

Quote:
last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place. Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money. Third place recieved $750.  

Who else is thinking about Glengarry Glen Ross?


I was actually thinking AIG.:rofl:


----------



## Hinda

*Newbie - Disgusted at Point System Ripoffs*

We were taken by a smooth talker in 2005. He knew what to answer, he knew what to say and boy did he lie.  The guy spent over 25 years being an Elvis impersonator. My questions were not answered and I didn't feel right but instead of using my gut instincts - we swallowed the hook, line and sinker.

Now the Sunterra-Sedona resort is part of the Diamond Resorts International which is using the outrageous point system. We want to get rid of it, as my hours were cut in half at work and we have more important matters (high school graduation, college, health, etc.) to consider. 

Forgive me for being "dumb" but can someone help me as to how I can get this pink elephant (my apologies to those wonderful beasts) off of our shoulders so we can be happy in debt?

No one at DRI was willing to help us and we were told that if we do not come up with any money they will take the property from us and our credit rating will go to Hades.

Please help!!!!! SIGHS


----------



## BocaBum99

Hinda said:


> We were taken by a smooth talker in 2005. He knew what to answer, he knew what to say and boy did he lie.  The guy spent over 25 years being an Elvis impersonator. My questions were not answered and I didn't feel right but instead of using my gut instincts - we swallowed the hook, line and sinker.
> 
> Now the Sunterra-Sedona resort is part of the Diamond Resorts International which is using the outrageous point system. We want to get rid of it, as my hours were cut in half at work and we have more important matters (high school graduation, college, health, etc.) to consider.
> 
> Forgive me for being "dumb" but can someone help me as to how I can get this pink elephant (my apologies to those wonderful beasts) off of our shoulders so we can be happy in debt?
> 
> *No one at DRI was willing to help us and we were told that if we do not come up with any money they will take the property from us and our credit rating will go to Hades.*
> 
> Please help!!!!! SIGHS



That was probably the first person who told you the whole truth.


----------



## Hinda

*Frustrated At Timeshares!!!*



BocaBum99 said:


> That was probably the first person who told you the whole truth.



So? Do you have any answers for me? Perhaps they were - but I hate the feeling of not having any rights. I am looking for answers.


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## BocaBum99

Hinda said:


> So? Do you have any answers for me? Perhaps they were - but I hate the feeling of not having any rights. I am looking for answers.



No matter how hard you search, you have only 3 options.  Just pick one and stick with it.

1) Keep your ownership, pay all of the fees and mortgages on time, vacation every year as much as your ownership will allow.  Collect priceless memories.

2) Sell your ownership and take the loss by writing a huge check to sell your points and pay off the loan and any back dues.

3) Default and let Diamond take it back and suffer bad credit for 7 years.


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## LisaH

Hinda, unfortunately BocaBum IS telling you the true. 
Whatever you decide, make sure to stick with it and make peace with yourself.


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## timeos2

*Its a timeshare not a points problem*



Hinda said:


> We were taken by a smooth talker in 2005. He knew what to answer, he knew what to say and boy did he lie.  The guy spent over 25 years being an Elvis impersonator. My questions were not answered and I didn't feel right but instead of using my gut instincts - we swallowed the hook, line and sinker.
> 
> Now the Sunterra-Sedona resort is part of the Diamond Resorts International which is using the outrageous point system. We want to get rid of it, as my hours were cut in half at work and we have more important matters (high school graduation, college, health, etc.) to consider.
> 
> Forgive me for being "dumb" but can someone help me as to how I can get this pink elephant (my apologies to those wonderful beasts) off of our shoulders so we can be happy in debt?
> 
> No one at DRI was willing to help us and we were told that if we do not come up with any money they will take the property from us and our credit rating will go to Hades.
> 
> Please help!!!!! SIGHS



Your issue would be the same with a regular week based timeshare OR the points type you apparently purchased. It is not the points system fault it's that you paid too much (or at least more than it turns out you can afford) and your commitment to pay both the purchase cost and annual fees is unending until you sell. Neither is due to a points system but to the fact you purchased a vacation package for XX dollars. 

Now as discussed above the "bonus" of being in the Diamond exchange process (points) is treated as a separate perk made available only to those who deal with a retail priced purchase from Diamond and, since it is voluntary and not part of the underlying deeded or RTU sale, you have no right to sell it only the property it is based on. That is hurting the resale value to some degree and exposes why depending on un-guaranteed perks or addons are not sound reasons to buy from a developer as they can be removed or restricted and often are. 

Add in that even a non-restricted ownership (the base value you paid for) carries a 50%+ markup for sales costs and overhead and the best you can hope for on any timeshare is 50% or less than retail price. Usually far less. 

Boca did give you the three bottomline line choices you have now. If you have already approached Diamond to take back the ownership and they won't (if there is still purchase price due it is very doubtful they would) then decide between the three bad choices and live with it.  There are no magic ways to suddenly be out of what you signed up for.


----------



## tombo

Hinda said:


> We were taken by a smooth talker in 2005. He knew what to answer, he knew what to say and boy did he lie.  The guy spent over 25 years being an Elvis impersonator. My questions were not answered and I didn't feel right but instead of using my gut instincts - we swallowed the hook, line and sinker.
> 
> Now the Sunterra-Sedona resort is part of the Diamond Resorts International which is using the outrageous point system. We want to get rid of it, as my hours were cut in half at work and we have more important matters (high school graduation, college, health, etc.) to consider.
> 
> Forgive me for being "dumb" but can someone help me as to how I can get this pink elephant (my apologies to those wonderful beasts) off of our shoulders so we can be happy in debt?
> 
> No one at DRI was willing to help us and we were told that if we do not come up with any money they will take the property from us and our credit rating will go to Hades.
> 
> Please help!!!!! SIGHS



This thread was started by a salesman ranting about GREEDY people coming to timeshare presentations for the gifts with no intent of buying. The above post is the typical result of one who does buy from him! 

These salesmen don't care about the buyers for any reason other than personal gains. They know when they are making the sales pitch that it isn't worth the price they are charging, that once the buyer screws up and purchases that they will not be able to get rid of it for a 50% or more loss, and they know that the financing fees are exorbitant. In spite of knowing what they are doing to their buyers for years to come, they only care about making the sale and making more money. 

TRUE GREED is exemplified by timeshare salesman who are continually selling something that they know is hurting customer after customer, but still continuing to sell it so they can make a lot of money with no concerns for anyone but themselves!!!!!


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Absorbing Timeshare Tour Freebies Guilt-Free.*




tombo said:


> TRUE GREED is exemplified by timeshare salesman who are continually selling something that they know is hurting customer after customer, but still continuing to sell it so they can make a lot of money with no concerns for anyone but themselves!


Totally true & right on target -- just something to keep in mind the next time you start feeling even the tiniest tinge of guilt about taking timeshare tours for freebies without buying anything. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## dougp26364

Opps, Bocca had covered this pretty well. 

How anyone views it is a matter of personal opinion. IMHO, anything that is of less benefit is a restriction on the resale buyer. If it's not important enough to pay developer pricing, it probably won't matter to that person and won't appear to be any sort of restriction. Still, it is treating resale buyers as less than those that buy from the developer IMHO.


----------



## bnoble

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...Is it really the sales weasel's obligation to protect someone from themselves?

Don't get me wrong, the adversarial model of sales is nearly unique to timeshare, and generates nothing but contempt as far as the eye can see.  The half-truths and insinuations and outright lies are truly slimy tactics.

But, it takes two to tango, and the buyer must shoulder part of the blame.  If you "sign on the line which is dotted" then you've done so willingly.


----------



## dougp26364

bnoble said:


> Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...Is it really the sales weasel's obligation to protect someone from themselves?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the adversarial model of sales is nearly unique to timeshare, and generates nothing but contempt as far as the eye can see.  The half-truths and insinuations and outright lies are truly slimy tactics.
> 
> But, it takes two to tango, and the buyer must shoulder part of the blame.  If you "sign on the line which is dotted" then you've done so willingly.




What? You mean something like "Let the buyer beware"?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*The Restrictions Are Real But Trivial.*




dougp26364 said:


> The bottom line is, resale buyers are treated in some way, shape or form differently than those that purchase direct from the developer in many systems. You might consider these restrictions minor but, they are restrictions non-the-less.


I caught on a long time ago that T*.*H*.*E*.* Club (back when it was still known as Club SunTerra) is mainly just the timeshare company's attempt to push back against resales.  

I said as much 1 time to a SunTerra timeshare seller who responded by saying, "That's about the size of it." (or words to that effect). 

It takes only a half-minute of cogitation to recognize that the so-called add-on benefits of full-freight purchases -- those extra features not available to resale owners -- are flat-out not worth anywhere close to the jynormous price differential between full freight & resale. 

That trivial difference for major dollars may be just about the most apt example you can find of sizzle on the 1 hand & steak on the other. 

Buy timeshares resale.  Save _thousands_ of dollars over full freight -- without missing out on _anything_ worth paying for. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Vacation Dude

tombo said:


> These salesmen don't care about the buyers for any reason other than personal gains. They know when they are making the sales pitch that it isn't worth the price they are charging, that once the buyer screws up and purchases that they will not be able to get rid of it for a 50% or more loss, and they know that the financing fees are exorbitant. In spite of knowing what they are doing to their buyers for years to come, they only care about making the sale and making more money.
> 
> TRUE GREED is exemplified by timeshare salesman who are continually selling something that they know is hurting customer after customer, but still continuing to sell it so they can make a lot of money with no concerns for anyone but themselves!!!!!



While I agree with 90% of what you are saying, I think you are too DOGMATIC in your condemnation of 100% of all timeshare sales reps. I have met a few (well maybe less than 3) that are actually pretty good.

I toured Disney Vacation Club and it was actually FUN and no pressure and no lies (at least I did not spot one). They set the high bar for ethical timeshare sales reps.

I toured several Marriotts and they are hit or miss and every once in a while you get a bad rep. I estimate 60% of them are "not" slimy weasels.

I thought Westgate was the worst and quit honestly, I now avoid any tours with them as it is NO FUN at all and I have to be on my guard too long. They really know how to shovel the "you know what"

Hyatt was pretty good and I have no complaints.

The "body snatchers" on the other hand are terrible at all resorts and should be put out to pasture.



AwayWeGo said:


> Totally true & right on target -- just something to keep in mind the next time you start feeling even the tiniest tinge of guilt about taking timeshare tours for freebies without buying anything.



I guess you also probably like to go to Costco and eat all the free samples and not buy the products. Truth be told, so do I.



bnoble said:


> Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...Is it really the sales weasel's obligation to protect someone from themselves?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the adversarial model of sales is nearly unique to timeshare, and generates nothing but contempt as far as the eye can see.  The half-truths and insinuations and outright lies are truly slimy tactics.
> 
> But, it takes two to tango, and the buyer must shoulder part of the blame.  If you "sign on the line which is dotted" then you've done so willingly.



I think it is morally wrong to blame the victim for being tricked into buying something when all the facts are not known and the seller has a huge strategic advantage over the buyer.

I really hate buying a car as the sales reps have superior knowledge and information than I do (regarding the product I want) and I am at a disadvantage as I need to own a car, but I do not need to own a timeshare.

Fortunately the Internet has shined a light on the dark word of timeshare sales and that is a good thing.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Not So Much.*




Vacation Dude said:


> I guess you also probably like to go to Costco and eat all the free samples and not buy the products.


The Chief Of Staff likes the Price Club free samples.  I'd rather not take the time.

Whenever we go to Price Club, I like to get in, get the stuff, & get out.   

The guy in our family who's really all over the free samples is our grandson (age 6).  Any time we're at Harris-Teeter, he goes for the samples of melon, strawberries, cheese, deli ham, navel oranges, cookies, & I don't know what-all. 

It's not exactly sampling without buying, however.  After hitting all the sample trays, we fill up the cart & roll on over to the self-service check-out lane, where my grandson beeps our club card & then slides all the UPC tags over the little window.  When it's time to pay up, I hand him the money & he slips it into the slot.  When the change comes out, I get the folding money & he gets all the coins. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bnoble

> I think it is morally wrong to blame the victim for being tricked into buying something when all the facts are not known and the seller has a huge strategic advantage over the buyer.


In any transaction, one party has a strategic advantage over the other---they know more.  Does that mean the less-knowledgeable party is always given a free pass for making a dumb decision?  I don't think so.  Particularly in this case, the buyer has plenty of time---10 days, in most jurisdictions---to read over the documentation (which reveals most of the incorrect sales claims as bogus) and seek out third-party sources of information.  

Such as our own little corner of the Internet here.

And, to be clear: I'm not blaming the buyer entirely.  It still takes two to tango, and the sales staff deserves some blame---and probably most of it.  However, the buyer is not without fault.  If you're spending tens of thousands of dollars on something, you ought to know what you are doing.  If you don't know what you are doing, you shouldn't be writing the check.

Edited to add: the car analogy doesn't quite fit, Alan.  You may need a car, but unless you've planned particularly poorly, you probably don't need a car _today._  You have time to learn a little more about what you need and get a stronger negotiating position.


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## AwayWeGo

*Credit Where Credit Is Due.  Also Blame.*




bnoble said:


> It still takes two to tango, and the sales staff deserves some blame.


The timeshare companies deserve the lion's share of the blame. 

The entire full-freight timeshare biz. model is based on half-truths & stretchers played to the tune of an arm-twisting, guilt-tripping, psychologically maipulative, high-pressure song & dance. 

The nice couple on vacation who get fast-talked into signing up to take a no-obligation timeshare tour -- just for the freebies, no obligation -- never stand a chance. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Vacation Dude

AwayWeGo said:


> The timeshare companies deserve the lion's share of the blame.
> 
> The entire full-freight timeshare biz. model is based on half-truths & stretchers played to the tune of an arm-twisting, guilt-tripping, psychologically maipulative, high-pressure song & dance.
> 
> The nice couple on vacation who get fast-talked into signing up to take a no-obligation timeshare tour -- just for the freebies, no obligation -- never stand a chance.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Great analogy......I wonder if they are HORN players????


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Unlikely.*




Vacation Dude said:


> I wonder if they are HORN players?


I've never known any horn players in the timeshare biz. 

I was in a horn section 1 time with a guy who was both an ordained priest and a licensed mortician.  Sometimes his beeper went off during rehearsal -- and not with a message from the monsignor, either.  

Our current Fairfax Band horn section is made up of *. . .* 

-- a business executive & former school music teacher 
-- a retired U.S. Navy captain & CPA 
-- a retired U.S. Navy Band chief arranger & professional composer-arranger & piano technician
-- a retired public school special education teacher 
-- a retired U.S. civil service bureaucrat 
-- a full-time mom & homemaker 
-- a high-tech systems engineer 
-- a political foundation executive 
-- a U.S. defense agency scientist 

Not a timeshare seller in the bunch. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ace2000

LOL - I just noticed this thread!  I read the first post, and know there's got to be some good reading here...  have to check it out this evening when I have some extra free time.  

:rofl:


----------



## sissyme

dear disgusted,
 When I was on my honeymoon, My husband & I got TRICKED into going to one of these seminar's. The person did NOT inform us it would be to buy a timeshare. We had NO CLUE. We were just told if we went to check out some new hotels we would get to go to free shows. NOT everyone that goes to these timeshare seminars had any idea that's what was going on. I don't think it was right at all and I do know we were mis-informed by Marriott, and discieved about the truth of timeshares. I am sick of people who lie to sell and timeshare just to make a sale without telling people the truth and to me it's a SCAM to try to get you to these seminars as if we had known that was what we were going to spend 5 HOURS of our honeymoon listening to someone pressure us into buying something that is WORTH NOTHING! We would NOT have attended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nodge

Hey Gang,

I haven’t been following what’s been going on here, but I just wanted to let you all know about this great deal from Spinnaker Resorts!

I’m a pompous doctor/lawyer type.  Yet, I still can't figure out that I could get at least 3 off-season nights at a NAME-BRAND resort in the same area (that, unlike the Spinnaker resorts shown in the pictures, the NAME-BRAND resorts feature larger than postage stamp sized pools and nicer than cheap wicker bedroom furniture supporting 12 inch CRT Box-type TV's, etc.) via II getaways and probably even Priceline for way less than this $99/night promotion deal AND I would not even have to sit through a timeshare pitch.   Nevertheless, I’m going to take THIS Spinnaker deal anyway and stick it to the salesman just for fun, because I enjoy wasting my time and money, just so I can waste his time too.

Wait!  I just read the earlier posts. . . . . 

Weird.  It’s like “newbietimesharesalesman” can read my mind.

-nodge

Seriously, if that $299 deal is the only "freebee" your resort is offering, people who are taking it either don't know any better or they are genuinely interested in buying there.  Either way, it is serving as a great filter for you, so stop whining.  

As for people looking for timeshare pitch “freebees,” there are better ones out there at other resorts in the area, some that don’t even require sitting through a pitch or risking a splinter every time they open their wicker underwear drawer.  Just keep looking and you’ll find them.

There you go.  A win-win for everyone.  -n


----------



## tombo

This OP salesman says don't go just for the gift. I say go for the gift and see how quickly you can get it. Go to the presentation. Tell the salesman that you just returned from a trip to Mexico and that you don't feel very well. Cough a lot in their direction and tell them that you have fever and chills. You should be sent to gifting in record time. Use a stop watch and let's all compete for the quickest trip to gifitng.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Swine Flu.*




tombo said:


> Tell the salesman that you just returned from a trip to Mexico and that you don't feel very well. Cough a lot in their direction and tell them that you have fever and chills.


Swine Flu is pretty much like regular flu -- except it makes you eat like a pig. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ronandjoan

*Great news for us all!*

This is perfect news for this thread.  This week, according to Ms Nancy Seeley here at the Wyndham Kona Sales office, Wyndham owners can go online and download coupons for ALL the discounts.  They do not need to attend the presentations!!!!     We need to pass on this information to all Parking Pass desk clerks!

I found this out when I went with our guest who signed up for the presentation, to get the discounts.

She said she has never ever had anyone come and say they came for the discount.  Everyone that she has talked to in 4 years came WANTING to buy more points.  She has never ever shown the presentation before to a non-owner.  She has only talked to owners.  Wyndham, she said, does not solicit outsiders, and only talks to owners.  So she did not know how to talk to my friend.  She did not even say how much it would be and when the post-survey found this out, he was pretty unhappy!

So everyone, if you are a Wyndham owner, you no longer need to worry about saying “NO” to the 2-3 phone calls we get every day at many of the Wyn resorts.  There’s no need now to bother Newbietimesaleman….


----------



## grest

If gifts weren't offered, all of this would be moot.
Connie


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Picture Empty Salesrooms & Timeshare Sellers Doing Sudokus With No One To Sell To.*




grest said:


> If gifts weren't offered, all of this would be moot.


Without offering freebies, how would the timeshare companies get anybody to show up for their timeshare sales presentations ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## djs

AwayWeGo said:


> Without offering freebies, how would the timeshare companies get anybody to show up for their timeshare sales presentations ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Their good looks and charm??


----------



## Htoo0

Why the INCREDIBLE vacation deals they offer of course!


----------



## ace2000

AwayWeGo said:


> Without offering freebies, how would the timeshare companies get anybody to show up for their timeshare sales presentations ?
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


 
Are you crazy???  Where else would you get the opportunity to purchase a lifetime of vacations at Motel 6 prices???   

Where else can you purchase an item that is worth about 10% of the purchase price right after you sign???  

I'm surprised people aren't paying them just for the opportunity!

:hysterical:


----------



## rockon

*Free Dinner*

Sorry....... In this economy ..... I will still take advantage of this.


----------



## Redrosesix

bnoble said:


> Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...Is it really the sales weasel's obligation to protect someone from themselves?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the adversarial model of sales is nearly unique to timeshare, and generates nothing but contempt as far as the eye can see.  The half-truths and insinuations and outright lies are truly slimy tactics.
> 
> But, it takes two to tango, and the buyer must shoulder part of the blame.  If you "sign on the line which is dotted" then you've done so willingly.



I can think of one other like this, at least around here -- carpet salesmen.  But it is so much easier to research a TS purchase than a carpet purchase.  Then again, bad carpet is easier to get rid of.

Way back when we started the journey of buying a TS (2 whole months ago) somebody said we should research for 6 months before buying.  Good advice -- since we have changed our shopping list considerably since we started.  So I can't imagine why somebody would commit to paying 10's of thousands of dollars after a 90 minute sales presentation.


----------



## theo

*Well said...*



bnoble said:


> It still takes two to tango, and the sales staff deserves some blame---and probably most of it.  However, the buyer is not without fault.  If you're spending tens of thousands of dollars on something, you ought to know what you are doing.  If you don't know what you are doing, you shouldn't be writing the check.



I saw a line in a book written by Dr. Philip McGraw in which he states;

"*There are no victims --- only volunteers*".

The statement obviously does not apply to innocent victims of crime who don't willfully and voluntarily *choose* to "sign up for" that. However, the statement most certainly *does* apply to anyone who volunteers for (and then succumbs to) a lying sales weasel pitch --- and then next fails to even bother to utilize the rescission period provided to them by law (10 full days in Florida, to cite just one example) to belatedly read and understand what they signed / bought and cancel their unwise "purchase" outright. 
That's not a "victim" --- that's instead a completely willing "*volunteer*".


----------



## ScoopKona

I can feel for the guy completely. I sold for four years, and it really gives you a different perspective on the human race.

He left out a few things:

1) Being told "I have cancer" every day. As in, "I'd buy this, but I have cancer." I'd always ask, "What kind?" because I knew they were ALWAYS lying. They didn't know if they had sarcoma, carcinoma or lymphoma. All they could tell me is that they had cancer really bad, so they couldn't buy. People who really have cancer tell only the people they need to tell.

2) Dealing with the people who would stand in line for free headaches. I remember pitching a couple who would never buy in Key West because there wasn't a Costco so they could get free food samples. 

And OP is right, you get a LOT of moochers. Nothing's worse than sitting down with a couple and having the husband (it's always the husband) say, "I've been on 50 presentations. I'm just here for the gift." There is something wrong with someone who is willing to go on 50 timeshare presentations. 

And for every tale people have about being misled into doing a presentation, I've got one where a couple seeks out the marketers shopping around for the best gift and a realistic idea of how long the tour would actually last.

3) Dealing with quinellas. There is a special hell that's called "Pitching Two Couples Simultaneously." It was almost always friends/neighbors/relatives who always travel together, where one couple pays most of the expenses and the other couple freeloads. The freeloader husband always has a smug look on his face that you really just want to slap off.

4) Parents who encourage their children to misbehave in order to get the tour to end quicker. Drove me nuts. 

5) Management. They have their sales style and it works for them. But it doesn't work for everybody, but they expect you to sell their way because it worked for them 10 years ago when they were on the line and nobody knew what the internet was. 

The higher up the chain, the less they know about computers. At the top is a fat old man who has his secretary dial the phone for him. He can't understand why rescission has skyrocketed lately.




However, 39% closer? I don't think so.  Anyone closing 39% would have a shrine erected to them by the developer. Anyone closing 39% would hire a staff of his/her own to do the endless calling associated with not being on a tour.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Different Perspective This.*




ScoopLV said:


> OP is right, you get a LOT of moochers.


What else would you expect from a biz. plan based 100% on luring in those deplorable freebie-seeking moochers so you can pull the wool over their greedy-beady little eyes ?

It doesn't have to be that way. 

It it high time -- way past high time -- for some trailblazing, innovative timeshare company to give up on the tired old carnival-barker biz. plan & switch to something more like Wal*Mart.  (You know, volume sales of products that people want, at a modest mark-up.)

Wouldn't that be something ?

Till then, hats off to the moochers.  

More power to them.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## BocaBum99

ScoopLV said:


> I can feel for the guy completely. I sold for four years, and it really gives you a different perspective on the human race.
> 
> He left out a few things:
> 
> 1) Being told "I have cancer" every day. As in, "I'd buy this, but I have cancer." I'd always ask, "What kind?" because I knew they were ALWAYS lying. They didn't know if they had sarcoma, carcinoma or lymphoma. All they could tell me is that they had cancer really bad, so they couldn't buy. People who really have cancer tell only the people they need to tell.
> 
> 2) Dealing with the people who would stand in line for free headaches. I remember pitching a couple who would never buy in Key West because there wasn't a Costco so they could get free food samples.
> 
> And OP is right, you get a LOT of moochers. Nothing's worse than sitting down with a couple and having the husband (it's always the husband) say, "I've been on 50 presentations. I'm just here for the gift." There is something wrong with someone who is willing to go on 50 timeshare presentations.
> 
> And for every tale people have about being misled into doing a presentation, I've got one where a couple seeks out the marketers shopping around for the best gift and a realistic idea of how long the tour would actually last.
> 
> 3) Dealing with quinellas. There is a special hell that's called "Pitching Two Couples Simultaneously." It was almost always friends/neighbors/relatives who always travel together, where one couple pays most of the expenses and the other couple freeloads. The freeloader husband always has a smug look on his face that you really just want to slap off.
> 
> 4) Parents who encourage their children to misbehave in order to get the tour to end quicker. Drove me nuts.
> 
> 5) Management. They have their sales style and it works for them. But it doesn't work for everybody, but they expect you to sell their way because it worked for them 10 years ago when they were on the line and nobody knew what the internet was.
> 
> The higher up the chain, the less they know about computers. At the top is a fat old man who has his secretary dial the phone for him. He can't understand why rescission has skyrocketed lately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, 39% closer? I don't think so.  Anyone closing 39% would have a shrine erected to them by the developer. Anyone closing 39% would hire a staff of his/her own to do the endless calling associated with not being on a tour.



Thank you!  You are telling the whole truth as opposed to the OP.  If anyone wants to know what happens on the inside of a timeshare sales organization, this is the person to learn it from.


----------



## ScoopKona

To my credit, I never:

1) Pitched investment

2) Pitched the hotel program

3) Made any kind of representation about resale


I pitched what I was selling for what it is: A gorgeous condo on an island where most people couldn't afford the real estate. (With really good trading power.)

Also, keep in mind that although most sales reps are real estate agents, they owe their loyalty (in a very real and legal way) to the broker. Their job -- as defined by the state they operate in -- is to make as much money as humanly possible for their broker.

Anyone good at selling can do this without having to lie about the product. There are enough buyers out there who will pull out their credit card as soon as the "rent vs. own" comparison is made.

When you get down to it, timeshare salesmen sell prestige. The idea is to build people up to the point where they say "I deserve this. Think of what my neighbors will think when I show them THIS. They'll be soooooo jealous."

That's it in a nutshell.


As for "why won't some far-sighted company cut the marketing budget and lower prices?" Good luck. 

The one thing I never see anyone complain about is when a high-end company releases another fabulous property. Until someone figures out a way to line up five to twenty thousand buyers -- credit card in hand -- to purchase a complex product that costs a lot of money, the developer's prices are going to be high. (And marketing is most of it. The sales commissions are basically 15% (edit: probably closer to 20%) after you include the hourly workers who staff the phones and file the paperwork.)

So that was why I couldn't stand the hard core moochers. All they do is drive the prices up for everyone else. Sure, you need a developer to dangle that wad of cash, too. I agree it's a two-way street. But someone who has been on 50, 100 (or more, I've met people who have done it!) tours should really be put on some sort of blacklist.


----------



## Conan

ScoopLV said:


> The idea is to build people up to the point where they say "I deserve this. Think of what my neighbors will think when I show them THIS. They'll be soooooo jealous."
> 
> That's it in a nutshell.


 
I'm always struck by the contempt and fundamental dislike these timeshare salespeople have for their targets.  I guess it's a way to handle rejection, but it's still kind of sad.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Blacklists Cost Money.*




ScoopLV said:


> So that was why I couldn't stand the hard core moochers. All they do is drive the prices up for everyone else. Sure, you need a developer to dangle that wad of cash, too. I agree it's a two-way street. But someone who has been on 50, 100 (or more, I've met people who have done it!) tours should really be put on some sort of blacklist.


There's a good chance setting up & staffing & operating & updating & trying to perfect a moocher-proof blacklist would cost more money than just keeping on shoveling out the freebies to the moochers. 

Then before long an unofficial Internet-based _Moocher Network_ would start spreading the word about how to get around the freebie-blocking blacklist.  

Plus, no blacklist system is perfect.  Either it will let some moochers come right on through, or it will block some perfectly good non-moochers, or both.

In any case, as long as the underlying timeshare biz. model stays based on today's classic shuck & jive, the timeshare companies deserve all the moochers they get. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Beyond Freebies -- Another Glimpse Into Timeshare Selling Psychology.*




ScoopLV said:


> The idea is to build people up to the point where they say "I deserve this. Think of what my neighbors will think when I show them THIS. They'll be soooooo jealous."


Those are apt to be the same folks who are fond of ROFR because it keeps out bottom-feeding bargain hunters & makes it so that everybody has to pay big bux to get in, same as they did. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## ScoopKona

rklein001 said:


> I'm always struck by the contempt and fundamental dislike these timeshare salespeople have for their targets.  I guess it's a way to handle rejection, but it's still kind of sad.



You are being treated similarly by nearly every corporation you deal with.

The big corporations hire psychologists en masse to learn how to more effectively chisel money from us.

Think about all the other "prestige" advertisements you see on the airwaves:

"What's a 13-letter phrase for wedding engagement? He...went...to...Jared."
"Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt." (Anything that shows a man driving like a fool, usually accompanied by fighter jets.)
"You made them strong. We'll make them *army* strong."

It's called the "Dominant Buying Motive." For timeshare, its usually things like "prestige, security, family, indulgence." 

The goal is to figure out what makes a person want to buy something, then push that button repeatedly until the sale is made.

Contempt? Fundamental dislike? That is counterproductive to selling. Sure, you'll meet people like that on every sales line. But they're not the top salespeople, even though they'll tell you they are. The top saleperson is usually bubbly, cheerful, female and fairly attractive (but not so attractive as to cause jealously on the part of the wife.)


----------



## e.bram

*Question for ScoopLV*

Are people who go to "owner updates" moochers, too? Love those freebies.


----------



## esk444

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????



I stayed at a Spinnaker Hilton Head Island resort last year.  They told me it would be a 90 MINUTE presentation.  So who is more dishonest?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*You Take The Prestige.  I'll Go With Value For Money.*




ScoopLV said:


> Think about all the other "prestige" advertisements you see on the airwaves:


And don't forget those non-prestige TV commercials -- _Live Better & Spend Less._ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## bnoble

Just to be the Devil's Advocate: that's not what everyone _wants_, Alan.

Let's take a real-world example.  I know (in the online sense) a lot of people who are DVC members, but not "timeshare people" in that they wouldn't be caught dead on TUG, TS4M, etc.  They are aware that my total cost for staying in DVC resorts is well under what they would spend in annual fees for the same stays, let alone their big bucks purchase cost.

You know what?  Almost none of them think I've been wise, and none of them have followed in my footsteps.  When they want to expand their vacation opportunities, they don't buy a tiger trader for pennies on the dollar, they buy more big-bucks DVC points instead.  (At least most of them are buying resale and saving a little.)

Some of this is because owning is more flexible than exchanging.  There's probably also some denial and related defense mechanisms going on.  But, mostly, they really really get a lot of personal value out of being "Members".  They like knowing that _they belong._  The like knowing that when they hear that cheerful _Welcome Home_ that it applies to them in full.  The like knowing that they own (well, really lease) a piece of the Rat.

In short, they are happy owners who believe in their heart of hearts that they are getting good value for their dollar, despite knowing that I'm staying in the same resorts for less, for a lot of the reasons that ScoopLV touches on.

I'm just not wired that way---I'm wired to chase the deal.  I like to claim its an economic incentive, but that's not really it---it's the thrill of the hunt.  In fact, I'm guessing that if I took all the hours I'd spent learning the ins and outs of the timeshare game, and spent those hours on billable work, and bought a full-freight big-bucks timeshare instead, I'd end up with more money at the end of the day.

We all get "value" in different ways.  One way is not necessarily better than another---it all depends on how we're wired.


----------



## ecwinch

ScoopLV said:


> As for "why won't some far-sighted company cut the marketing budget and lower prices?" Good luck.
> 
> The one thing I never see anyone complain about is when a high-end company releases another fabulous property. Until someone figures out a way to line up five to twenty thousand buyers -- credit card in hand -- to purchase a complex product that costs a lot of money, the developer's prices are going to be high. (And marketing is most of it. The sales commissions are basically 15% (edit: probably closer to 20%) after you include the hourly workers who staff the phones and file the paperwork.)



No it will never happen. The problem is that timeshares - like a number of products - are products that are sold, not bought. 

No sane person wakes up in the morning and says I need to fly to Orlando and buy a *developer* week from Marriott. We have to be sold the prestige of owning that week. It is a sales driven product.

The only exception to the above is people on TUG, and then not through the developer (normally).


----------



## AwayWeGo

*So It Goes.*




ecwinch said:


> No it will never happen.


Well, as I've been saying all along --_Don't Hold Your Breath._ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Wonka

I wonder how many folks this salesman nutcase does actually tell their investment will be worth 40% less (or more) as soon as they walk out the door.  

How many people does he actually think walk into a timeshare presentation with the "intention" of purchasing?

As someone else said, do your screening before offering the incentives and stop harassing those that say "no".  That should lower your volume of non-interested persons...and your commission.

If you worked for me, you'd be immediately fired with your attitude.  I wouldn't care whether you generated the most sales, or not.  You aren't the right example for other salespersons.


----------



## Jon77

*TS Presentations*

I bought my first timeshare in 1977.  It was a right to use week.  I paid $1200 for it and the maintenance fee was $48/yr.  Since that time I have seen many changes in the timeshare industry and many new ways to entice people to buy and upgrade.  Such as the trend from Right to Use to Deed and Title,  the introduction of Points, the introduction of every other year ownership,  the movement of large hotel chains into the timeshare industry (Hilton, Fairfield, Marriott, Westin, Wyndham etc.) and of course the computer and the internets affect on the industry. 

The point of all of the above is, if it fits our schedule I actually attend the timeshare presentation at a resort I have exchanged into as a way of keeping updated and informed of how the industry is changing and how much developers are trying to get for their timehares.  In the past 32 years, I have sat across the table from some of the best timeshare salesmen and 2 timeshare saleswomen (one of which was Robert Goulet's daughter Nicole).  My wife and I recently attended a Wyndham presentation for the Bali Hai resort while we were staying at the Shearwater in Kauai during the last week of April.  It was not a high pressure presentation.  If you haven't been to a Wyndham presentation, you really should attend one just to see what those folks are up to.  That is all I will say in print about Wyndham at the moment.

I will also add that the presentations today are in no way as high pressure as they were in the 80's.  In the Wyndham presentation we just attended, we just said no and that was that.  In fact the sales manager came up at the end and asked if we honestly felt pressured and we said no.  In the 80's you would have to say no several times since the offer would get lower during the presentation.  The 90 minutes could last 3 hours as they tried to belittle you and wear you down.


----------



## Egret1986

*Maybe at Wyndham presentations, but not at the last one that we were tricked into*



Jon77 said:


> I will also add that the presentations today are in no way as high pressure as they were in the 80's.  In the Wyndham presentation we just attended, we just said no and that was that.  In fact the sales manager came up at the end and asked if we honestly felt pressured and we said no.  In the 80's you would have to say no several times since the offer would get lower during the presentation.  The 90 minutes could last 3 hours as they tried to belittle you and wear you down.



Three years ago, 2006, we were at a resort we had been to many times over the years.  Though we hadn't previously encountered the "go over there and pick up your parking pass" routine and they offer you resort money towards attending a resort survey.  We hadn't been to a presentation in over 10 years, so we really thought it was a survey and were interested in finding out what was new with the resort.  High pressure, rudeness (not from salesman), arrogance, personal insults and we finally got out of there right at 4 hours.  We told the salesman upfront we weren't buying because we only bought resale.  They wanted $8000 for a unit in one of the sold out sections that we picked up on eBay a couple of months later (prime summer week) for $350 plus closing.

We won't be tricked again.  There is no way I will attend any timeshare presentation in order to find out about the resort or system (and definitely not for freebies), based on the assumption that they are no longer high pressure or don't last 3 hours.  

We were a captive audience and had no choice on a Tradewinds cruise last year.  We knew it before hand that it was going to happen, but no one has relayed the experience we had.  On three different days our time was monopolized by the captain and then he had us in a sales office with the "manager" on the last day (again personal insults, rudeness and too much wasted vacation time).  We stated no every way we could.  It didn't work.  

I'm glad your timeshare presentation experience(s) have been different.


----------



## geekette

bnoble said:


> Just to be the Devil's Advocate: that's not what everyone _wants_, Alan.
> 
> Let's take a real-world example.  I know (in the online sense) a lot of people who are DVC members, but not "timeshare people" in that they wouldn't be caught dead on TUG, TS4M, etc.  They are aware that my total cost for staying in DVC resorts is well under what they would spend in annual fees for the same stays, let alone their big bucks purchase cost.
> 
> You know what?  Almost none of them think I've been wise, and none of them have followed in my footsteps.  When they want to expand their vacation opportunities, they don't buy a tiger trader for pennies on the dollar, they buy more big-bucks DVC points instead.  (At least most of them are buying resale and saving a little.)
> 
> Some of this is because owning is more flexible than exchanging.  There's probably also some denial and related defense mechanisms going on.  But, mostly, they really really get a lot of personal value out of being "Members".  They like knowing that _they belong._  The like knowing that when they hear that cheerful _Welcome Home_ that it applies to them in full.  The like knowing that they own (well, really lease) a piece of the Rat.
> 
> In short, they are happy owners who believe in their heart of hearts that they are getting good value for their dollar, despite knowing that I'm staying in the same resorts for less, for a lot of the reasons that ScoopLV touches on.
> 
> I'm just not wired that way---I'm wired to chase the deal.  I like to claim its an economic incentive, but that's not really it---it's the thrill of the hunt.  In fact, I'm guessing that if I took all the hours I'd spent learning the ins and outs of the timeshare game, and spent those hours on billable work, and bought a full-freight big-bucks timeshare instead, I'd end up with more money at the end of the day.
> 
> We all get "value" in different ways.  One way is not necessarily better than another---it all depends on how we're wired.



excellent post.  I agree that there are different types of owners.  

One thing I'd add, some will not buy resale because they think it's too good to be true.  There can be trust issues.  Buying from the developer, you are certain of what you are getting.


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## AwayWeGo

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




geekette said:


> Buying from the developer, you are certain of what you are getting.


That's for sure. 

You're getting hosed. 





-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Jon77

Egret1986 said:


> I'm glad your timeshare presentation experience(s) have been different.


I probably should have revised my original statement to indicate that the timeshare presentations we have attended in the last 4 years have not had the high pressure that we saw in the 80's.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that the entire industry was this way.  Obviously your experience says that there are still high pressure tactics being used and over multiple days as well.

Over the years, I have always said that the Medicine Man that sold snake oil in the Old West is alive and well and selling timeshare.


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## Egret1986

*I wish the entire industry was what you have experienced in the last 4 years*



Jon77 said:


> I probably should have revised my original statement to indicate that the timeshare presentations we have attended in the last 4 years have not had the high pressure that we saw in the 80's.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that the entire industry was this way.  Obviously your experience says that there are still high pressure tactics being used and over multiple days as well.
> 
> Over the years, I have always said that the Medicine Man that sold snake oil in the Old West is alive and well and selling timeshare.



As has been stated in many threads, the way things have been done and are continuing to be done in timeshare presentations needs to be changed to be more friendly and less adversarial to the potential purchaser.  Things change over time and business models should reflect that.  If it ain't broke don't fix it?  All I can think is that it is still working for them.  I want no part of it.  It puts too much of a damper on a vacation, it is draining, it leaves a negative impression of the resort when they're rude and insulting, and it just takes away too much time from a vacation week.

They're not interested in my type anyway (and I tried to tell them that).  I'm not going to buy from the developer when I can buy resale.  There should be a venue though for people who are interested in finding out more about a resort and what is offered and looking at units and layouts.  Maybe I won't buy direct, but I may be a contributing member of the resort in the future if I decide that is a place that I want to own at and would be paying maintenance fees there.

It makes my head hurt just thinking about timeshare presentations.


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## Carolinian

ScoopLV said:


> As for "why won't some far-sighted company cut the marketing budget and lower prices?" Good luck.
> 
> The one thing I never see anyone complain about is when a high-end company releases another fabulous property. Until someone figures out a way to line up five to twenty thousand buyers -- credit card in hand -- to purchase a complex product that costs a lot of money, the developer's prices are going to be high. (And marketing is most of it. The sales commissions are basically 15% (edit: probably closer to 20%) after you include the hourly workers who staff the phones and file the paperwork.)
> 
> .



Actually there are a handful of timeshare companies that sell that way. When I was on Sint Maarten, I noted an ad in tourist publications from Residences at the Crane, where they said they had cut out the freebies and cut their prices about 40%, saying that giving better prices to customers was a better way to sell product than giving away freebies and pressuring people.  I also heard of an II-affiliated timeshare in Hawaii that operates that way.  Both seem to be doing okay with it.


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## jasenj1

Egret1986 said:


> They're not interested in my type anyway (and I tried to tell them that).  I'm not going to buy from the developer when I can buy resale.  There should be a venue though for people who are interested in finding out more about a resort and what is offered and looking at units and layouts.  Maybe I won't buy direct, but I may be a contributing member of the resort in the future if I decide that is a place that I want to own at and would be paying maintenance fees there.



That's exactly what we did last weekend. Went up to King's Creek Plantation in Williamsburg for the free airline tickets (we live locally). Our sales rep was their head rep, she was very nice, had the grandmotherly thing down pat. We told her we'd been on 8 or 9 presentations and were just interested in checking out the resort and getting our free stuff. She accepted that, we had a very nice visit & tour - she even offered my wife a job selling!  

We liked the resort, went home, found a unit on eBay for $99, and won the bid. We plan to take our friends up there to take advantage of the day use privileges, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we eventually lead some other folks to buy there.

Believing that the only value of a "mark" taking a tour is to buy from the developer is very short sighted.

- Jasen.


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## Patty

We visited King's Creek once with the offer of tickets to Busch Gardens, a dining certificate plus a chance to win $2000 in a drawing.  The confirmation letter we received said we would receive the tickets, dining certificate AND $2000.  The developed was not happy after we toured, but we sure enjoyed spending that $2000 they had to give us.  Funny we never get calls to come back.


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## tombo

Patty said:


> We visited King's Creek once with the offer of tickets to Busch Gardens, a dining certificate plus a chance to win $2000 in a drawing.  The confirmation letter we received said we would receive the tickets, dining certificate AND $2000.  The developed was not happy after we toured, but we sure enjoyed spending that $2000 they had to give us.  Funny we never get calls to come back.



I never go on timeshare tours anymore because the misery isn't worth the gift. However I would gladly spend 8 hours battling every timeshare salesman and manager they could throw at me for $2000. Congratulations on getting the best freebie I have ever heard of.


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## Egret1986

*Oh, my gosh!!!!  Wow!!!*



Patty said:


> We visited King's Creek once with the offer of tickets to Busch Gardens, a dining certificate plus a chance to win $2000 in a drawing.  The confirmation letter we received said we would receive the tickets, dining certificate AND $2000.  The developed was not happy after we toured, but we sure enjoyed spending that $2000 they had to give us.  Funny we never get calls to come back.



That's incredible!!!!! :rofl:


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## phileaglesfan

All part of sales.  If a salesman can't handle rejection then he is in the wrong profession.  How about going to timeshare presentation and the cost drops from $45k to $20k or being told "$100 a month is nothing" or being attacked by salesmen when you just want to relax (ever been to Cancun)?  Why are salesmen at home shows so aggressive to get you to stay with their resort for a weekend even after you say no?  I just bought a timeshare and to be honest the whole business is making me consider getting out of it.


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## AwayWeGo

*Great Idea -- Rescind, Then Buy Resale.  Save Big, Big Bux.*




phileaglesfan said:


> I just bought a timeshare and to be honest the whole business is making me consider getting out of it.


If you paid full freight, get out of it before the rescission deadline.  

Then go out & buy the same thing or the equivalent or something even better _resale_ for thousands of dollars less. 

Excellent move.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## calgarygary

phileaglesfan said:


> All part of sales.  If a salesman can't handle rejection then he is in the wrong profession.  How about going to timeshare presentation and the cost drops from $45k to $20k or being told "$100 a month is nothing" or being attacked by salesmen when you just want to relax (ever been to Cancun)?  Why are salesmen at home shows so aggressive to get you to stay with their resort for a weekend even after you say no?  I just bought a timeshare and to be honest the whole business is making me consider getting out of it.



Your comment about rejection is right on the mark.  I completely disagreed with the old saying about not taking no for an answer.  I believe most good sales people can accept no and not allow all the no's they hear throughout their week impact their sales pitch.  It takes a special kind of person that keeps on getting told no but can pick themselves up and sell their product with enthusiasm to the next person.  However, that said, the mods wouldn't allow me to post what I think of ts salespeople.


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## ScoopKona

calgarygary said:


> I completely disagreed with the old saying about not taking no for an answer.  _I believe most good sales people can accept no and not allow all the no's they hear throughout their week impact their sales pitch._  It takes a special kind of person that keeps on getting told no but can pick themselves up and sell their product with enthusiasm to the next person.  However, that said, the mods wouldn't allow me to post what I think of ts salespeople.



The good sales people expect -- _and want_ -- to hear the word "no."

Whenever people enter a retail store (like, say, Macy's), the first thing that happens is a clerk walks up and asks, "Can I help you?"

The answer is almost always, "No, just looking." It's just something that has to be got out of the way before the sale can happen.

"No" is essential to sales. When I was doing it, I loved hearing the word. A successful timeshare pitch involves lots and lots of objections, followed by a "yes."

On the other hand, customers who agreed with me all the time and yessed me to death _never_ bought.


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## MissingLink

Awaywego....You should get an award


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## easyrider

newbietimesharesalsman's thoughts on TS presentations are some what true as many of us have discussed ways to make a presentation shorter or what TS has the better gifts. 

I do like touring nice resorts. I do like being over paid to do so. 

This thread kind of reminds me of the window washing bit and the op's writing skills reminds me of Steamboat Bill and his interesting posts.


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## Beyond Expectations

Ok, this is something I was considering doing. 


[Advertising deleted - DeniseM Moderator]


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## ScoopKona

Somebody in another thread wanted to know about the guys on the street who will promise you the moon if you'll just give up 30 60 90 120 240 360 minutes of your time.

Those of you who are interested in the business from the developer and sales perspective can find it here.


Maybe I should write a book about what goes on in the timeshare sales pit.... I wonder if there's a market for that?


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## Rent_Share

Keitht said:


> My excuse for the purchase from the developer is that it was the 1980's and sites like this didn't exist




Dude Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet  . . . . .:hysterical:


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## e.bram

ScoopLV:
I don't care what I am called as long as I get my freebies. You know "sticks and stones-----" etc.


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## icydog

bnoble said:


> Just to be the Devil's Advocate: that's not what everyone _wants_, Alan.
> 
> Let's take a real-world example.  I know (in the online sense) a lot of people who are DVC members, but not "timeshare people" in that they wouldn't be caught dead on TUG, TS4M, etc.  They are aware that my total cost for staying in DVC resorts is well under what they would spend in annual fees for the same stays, let alone their big bucks purchase cost.
> 
> You know what?  Almost none of them think I've been wise, and none of them have followed in my footsteps.  When they want to expand their vacation opportunities, they don't buy a tiger trader for pennies on the dollar, they buy more big-bucks DVC points instead.  (At least most of them are buying resale and saving a little.)
> 
> 
> Some of this is because owning is more flexible than exchanging.  There's probably also some denial and related defense mechanisms going on.  But, mostly, they really really get a lot of personal value out of being "Members".  They like knowing that _they belong._  The like knowing that when they hear that cheerful _Welcome Home_ that it applies to them in full.  The like knowing that they own (well, really lease) a piece of the Rat.
> 
> In short, they are happy owners who believe in their heart of hearts that they are getting good value for their dollar, despite knowing that I'm staying in the same resorts for less, for a lot of the reasons that ScoopLV touches on.
> 
> I'm just not wired that way---I'm wired to chase the deal.  I like to claim its an economic incentive, but that's not really it---it's the thrill of the hunt.  In fact, I'm guessing that if I took all the hours I'd spent learning the ins and outs of the timeshare game, and spent those hours on billable work, and bought a full-freight big-bucks timeshare instead, I'd end up with more money at the end of the day.
> 
> We all get "value" in different ways.  One way is not necessarily better than another---it all depends on how we're wired.



I am so proud of you. We would disagree when it comes to owning DVC, and we have, but to say there may be another way to look at owning the mouse is amazing. Thanks for that. 

As far as buying for prestige.. that's one of the reasons why we bought Disney 18 years ago. We wanted only the best and for the most part that's what we got. Can I get there for less, yes-- and I have, do I still think I made the right decision to buy from Disney, Yes again.


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## icydog

Patty said:


> We visited King's Creek once with the offer of tickets to Busch Gardens, a dining certificate plus a chance to win $2000 in a drawing.  The confirmation letter we received said we would receive the tickets, dining certificate AND $2000.  The developed was not happy after we toured, but we sure enjoyed spending that $2000 they had to give us.  Funny we never get calls to come back.



I'll bet they tried everything to convince you it was a typo. Good for you!! Great story!!!:hysterical:


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## beerfamily

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year. You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets. Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS.



Last year we went on a vacation gifted to us by my in laws who own weeks through RCI.  We were asked to attend a presentation in exchange for $100 gift card to be used at a selected list of places on the island.  Lucky for us we were staying at the resort they were showing so we didn't need to actually do that part of the presentation.  What you described as a typical presentation is pretty much right on with what we went through.  The lady was extremely nice but to the T as to how she presented. 

We were offered a resale.  We knew nothing of Timesharing.  Stupidity on our part and wanting to vacation every year somewhere nice got us.  I will admit that we didn't look into it at all, although we spent at least 30 min in private discussing if we should go for it just hubby and I.  

Why did I include the above quote?  We sure didn't make that much money and we don't now.  My husbands income was all we had last year.  Because of stupidity and also putting my youngest in private school I had to get a job to pay for it.  We still don't make $75,000 a year but we pay our bills and have money to put away and spend.  

I don't know who got the worst end of the deal us or the lady who sold it to us.  

We got 47,000 RCI points on a bi-annual basis.  Doubled the first year.  
We were told we get a week at the location we were buying as well, during heritage week in Hilton Head.  Prime Time.  That the week we were getting was in contract still and we couldn't use in 2009 but should get a check in the mail for its use.  
We were told our fee's would be approx $800 every two years for maintenance.  
It included a golf package, and tennis. 
Price?  About $8,000 including our financing fee's. 
The lady who sold it to us paid closing costs, our first year membership to RCI, and about 2/3 of our downpayment.  Oh yeah and took us all to breakfast the next day, that bill was $60 not including tip as the location she choose was a buffet.  

I feel cheated though.  Lied to.  We were NOT told in order to use that week we would have to pay maintenance fee's on that week on top of maintenence fee's were required to pay every other year on the contract.  I was told we get that week, period.  I was told it was a fixed week, now I am told I can book any available week by paying the maintenance fee's.  

I need to find someone who understands these contracts to look over mine and tell us what exactly we have!  I bought it because I wanted to stay at the resort we purchased from, not use points and stay elsewhere.  To do that I will pay out $400 a year on my "points" in maintenence fee's plus another $1100 as I am told in maintenece fee's to use my week.  

As I understand it.... when were done paying off the loan it might be worth it.  But realistically I can stay at a house or hotel on the beach for $1500 a week, just as I am already paying to use my week plus my points.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  

I am new psting here, but I had to comment on this.  I know we were stupid and now were paying for it.  

On a posative note we did find something on HHI for 35,000 of our points for next month yay!


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## AwayWeGo

*Good Judgment Comes From Experience.  Experience Comes From Bad Judgment.*




beerfamily said:


> I am new psting here, but I had to comment on this.  I know we were stupid and now were paying for it.


I won't call it stupid -- ill-informed maybe, but not stupid. 

What grates on me from your story is that the timeshare companies apparently have seized upon the word _resale_ to make customers think what the timeshare company is offering is a resale. 

Not so. 

Resale timeshares come only from regular walking-around owners & from 3rd party brokers & listing services specializing in selling previously owned timeshares.  

You were on the right track in wanting to buy your timeshare resale.  What led you astray was the timeshare seller's deceptive use of the word _resale_ for an overpriced unit that was no such thing. 

Nothing sold directly by the timeshare companies is worth the money -- not even if they call'm resales or repo units or what-not. 

Live & learn, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## laurac260

wow...did you skip the portion of your sales training that was titled, "how to make friends and influence people?"  

or should I say, "Jim, Tom, is that you...?"


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## laurac260

newbietimesharesalesman said:


> Greetings "good" people!
> 
> You will have to forgive me, I am intentionally leaving out names and geographical locations as this could sting a little...
> 
> After years in a career as a artist, my life took a turn.  My beautiful wife gave birth to a baby boy, and Daddy had to get a real job.  My best friend from college is the director of marketing at a resort in the southeast U.S. and told me that with my "people skills", I would be a great timeshare salesman.
> 
> Wow.  After doing this job for a year now, working every weekend, doing three presentations every day, I have to say I'm exhausted.  Your initial reaction is probably "yeah, from telling all those lies and applying so much pressure."  Yes, there is a science to the timeshare sales presentation, but just the same as any type of sales really.  To be honest, the reason for my exhaustion is you.  Every one of you people.  Allow me to go into further detail...
> 
> I poked around on your HUG website.  I venture to guess that 99% of you own some sort of timeshare, with the other 1% investigating.  You have been on COUNTLESS presentations.  COUNTLESS.  Each time KNOWING that you won't buy anything.  I ask one question...
> 
> WHY????
> 
> Why continue to waste your time and that of the salesman/woman??  Is the dining certificate WORTH THAT MUCH TO YOU that you will sit through a 3 HOUR PRESENTATION ON YOUR HONEYMOON????  OR ANNIVERSARY???  OR BIRTHDAY????
> 
> From my perspective, this job has made me lose a TON of respect for the human race in general.  The outright GREED of people is disgusting.  I have met people that would do ANYTHING for those dinner certificates.  Drag their wife/husband against their will...  I had no idea people were so greedy...
> 
> In reading the details under some of your usernames and avatars I noticed a lot of status-talk.  Bragging about what you own (I noticed one "John" something bragging about Touruga and a 2 bedroom).  Does that make you feel good?  Maybe owning in the Canary Islands or Monaco is of a higher level than say Orlando or Branson, MO??  It reminds me of the suburban neighborhoods with BMW, Mercedes, Audi all lined up in the driveways to show off...
> 
> Here's my point:  You ALL OWN.  You ALL ENJOY or hopefully HAVE ENJOYED your timeshare in the past.  You ALL KNOW WHAT A PRESENTATION IS DESIGNED TO DO.  So please, for the love of GOD and ALL HUMANITY:
> 
> STOP GOING ON TIMESHARE PRESENTATIONS.  JUST SAY NO.  (like you tell the "newbies" to do on their presentations).  JUST SAY NO TO THE DINNER CERTIFICATES OR DISNEY TICKETS.
> 
> (ignorant and rude comment removed)
> 
> I have to say, that felt good.  Not because I am mean spirited, quite the contrary.  I was trained by an HONEST man in this business.  Now I can say I definitely heard other reps "pitching heat".  But I was raised different, and I believe in something called KARMA.  I have never told a lie on a presentation.  Is the program perfect?  HELL NO!  Does it depreciate?  ABSOLUTELY.  Try 60% as soon as you sign!!!  Can I rent it out?  GOOD LUCK!  Can I sell it?  WHO KNOWS!?!  I attribute my success (39% close in first 11 months in the business) to being HONEST and telling people EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS.  If you want to stay in nice accommodations and leave something to your children, then go for it.  ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
> 
> I don't lie because I need to sleep at night.  I need to look my baby in the eyes and know that I don't lie to people for a living.  Maybe it's the artist in me, who knows.  But one thing is for certain...  My disgust for each and every person that takes a timeshare presentation.  "You guys dragged me in here" - "We're just here for the gifts..."  WE KNOW.  HAVE SOME PRIDE.  SPRING FOR THE EXTRA DINNER FOR YOUR FAMILY.  Trust me, you will look better in your children's eyes if you decline the "offer" for the presentation.  If you can't afford Hawaii for a week then DON'T GO.  Don't take the "Wyndham" presentation offer and go into it like a buffoon.  DON'T GO.
> 
> And if you do, please don't get cocky with the rep sitting in front of you.  Remember it was your greed, like an obese person salivating at the candy store window, that brought you in the first place.
> 
> JUST SAY NO.



Dude,  let me take you on a walk in salesperson 101.   80% of the business comes from 20% of the clients.  Did you not learn that when you got your training?  It doesn't matter what you are selling, it is all the same.  Every salesperson has taken a "client" on a lunch, dinner, testdrive, you name it, when the person has no intention of buying.  My suggestion, either suck it up, or get out of the biz.   If you like sales, suck it up.  I just finished dealing with some very unscrupulous sales peeps, selling a high end timeshare product.  I backed away and ended up going resale, just signed the contract.  It works both ways, believe me.  Suck it up, you never know when that free rider may be a future client.


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## laurac260

bruwery said:


> To the O.P.:
> 
> Somebody should slap your parents for raising a whiny, spoiled brat.
> 
> What a shame that you had to "get a real job".  I feel so bad that you're "exhausted" from having to get up and go to work every day.  What a pity.
> 
> It just isn't fair that you have to get up in the morning and earn a living like the rest of the world.  After all, you're special - you're an artist!!  You're entitled to sleep until noon every day, spend 2o minutes throwing some random splotches of paint on a piece of canvas, and make up some story about how it actually represents something.
> 
> Then, burn a doobie and belittle as intellectually inferior any person who looks at the resultant eyesore and says "Umm, I don't get it".
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry - did I generalize?  How unfair of me.
> 
> I don't go to timeshare presentations, but that doesn't seem to stop your people from harassing me.
> 
> One question:  Why do say in your post that it's a 3 hour presentation?  The people out front told me it would only take an hour...




ummm, yea, what (s)he said...


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## DeniseM

Just so you know, the OP hasn't been back since 4 days after his first post (April 24th.)


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## tsismylife

*Enough of this BS*

This is simply a test because I keep submitting these posts and can't seem to make them stick.  It this works, I'll try again.


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## tsismylife

*Enough of this BS*

OK.  I have been in the timeshare industry for 20+ years and worked for 14 different properties in California and Nevada, but never in Las Vegas.  I have worked as a sales representative (liner), sales manager, quality assurance manager, inhouse agent and manager and as an OPC.  I have worked for independent developers (Stardust Tahoe, Ridge Tahoe), larger indedpendent developers (Perennial, Sunterra) and major hotel developers (Hyatt, Marriott, Starwood).  I have also sold for two separate legitimate (no upfront fees) resale companies.  I have also bought 7 weeks (and resold 5 of them) for our personal use - all resales.  And we have made over 50 RCI exchanges. I continue in the business selling owner resales and HOA foreclosures at a Southern California resort.

And I'm here to tell you the 90% of what the OP tells you regarding his personal stats are total crap.  When I started at the Ridge Tahoe back in the day, a 2 bedroom lockoff sold for $12,995 and paid 8 to 12% commission.  Those days are gone forever.  Now independent properties pay from 6 to 12%commission and the majors (Marriott, Starwood) pay from 4 to maybe 15% for the real Superstars that hit all the bonus levels for that pay period.  And that 15% is only for the month that you are a Superstar.  Next month it's back to "what have you done for me lately'?  

The truth is developers don't want these heavy hitters anymore.  Why should they pay 20% to someone when they can pay 6% or less to some ex bartender or secretary to read a boiler plate script to some ups from Omaha and then turn them over to a manager to close?

But one thing the OP said was accurate.  Timeshare resorts are always looking for sales reps.  Why do you suppose that is when a rookie like the OP can clear a half mil a year, easy?


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## jimmy44

*Not Sorry For You!*

I TOO HAVE BEEN AN OWNER FOR YEARS AND WE ARE ALWAYS CALLED ONCE WE GET IN OUR ROOM ABOUT THE UPDATE PRESENTATION. AFTER WHAT I HAVE PAID BLUEGREEN I DON'T FEEL A BIT BAD FOR ATTENDING FOR FREE GIFTS.OF COURSE THIS YEAR WE WERE AT SEAGLASS TOWERS AND THEY CALLED  ABOUT THE UPDATE. I WAS UPFRONT ABOUT ATTENDING THE UPDATE FOR MY GIFTS AND THEY SAID DUE TO THE ECONOMY, THEY COULDN'T GIVE OUT MUCH THAT COST MUCH.[$50 GAS CARD,MAYBE.]SO I TOLD THEM I WOULD NOT ATTEND.END OF PHONE CALL.SOME SALES PEOPLE MAKE ME SO MAD I GET UP AND LEAVE.


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## vacationdoc

Thank goodness for cell phones.  We unplug the ts phone as soon as we arrive and never have to answer presentation requests.  If I want an update I always fine great info on this site.


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## e.bram

Vacationdoc and others:
You are missing out on the freebies(better because of who gives them)


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## timeshare-scams

If he is closing at 39%  well done but how about letting us know your cancellation figures??  50%???  75%????  or may in 11months you just had 10 tours and sold to 4 of them!


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## AwayWeGo

*I Don't Know Great Art But I Know What I Like.*




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I was thinking he might be the genius behind dogs playing poker!


That's a different guy -- Cassius Coolidge, according to WikiPedia Dot Org. 





-- hotliniked --





-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


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## 9391

*my take and then some....*

I go to everyone I can
Wifey dosn't like it but we get a good laugh out of it. I got burned once and I figure they owe me. So I am recouping my loses one freebie at a time.
When they get to their bottom line I pull out an e-bay listing from their resort and ask them if they can beat that!
And yes, most times it's for a tour of the newer units or a survey of owners to see how they can improve
They are their own worst enemies really.
I just made a post in the buying board about ebay purchase i would like some of you heavy hitters to check out.
Just when you think you are gaining the upper hand you take another gut shot. Never as bad as that 1st developer purchase though....
Thanks for listening.


----------

