# AirFrance?



## hibbeln (Jan 2, 2006)

Yep, still searching for my tickets to Spain.....now AirFrance has a good deal with good flight times.  Two questions.....
1.  Any thoughts on AirFrance?  Again, what kind of entertainment do they have on the transatlantic portion?  (we're travelling with kids and they LOVE the inseat entertainment systems that some have).  I remember some people had problems with flights being changed in the past.....
2.  It looks like I can get Northwest FF miles for flying AirFrance.  Is this correct?

THANK YOU!


----------



## Poobah (Jan 2, 2006)

*Air France*

Debi,

1. Is the connection thru CDG? One for the women I work with took AF from JFK to CDG and on to ATH. She had no problems with the flight except that the cabin crew would not speak to her in English! Other than that, everything was on time and her baggage made it. I plan to use them on my next trip to Athens. The routing is MSP/DTW/CDG/ATH.

2. Yes you can get NWA FF Miles on Air France as part of the Sky Team Alliance. In fact there is an NWA bonus mile deal for using the Sky Team Partners to get across the pond. There is a time limit on it, but I can't remember what it is. It is under the Promotions tab on nwa.com

Cheers,

Paul


----------



## Carolinian (Jan 2, 2006)

An Air France flight will get you miles on Northwest, Delta, or Continental.

I like their inflight service.  Like just about all European carriers, they still give free alcohol trans-Atlantic (and intra-Europe), something only NW does among the US-based carriers.  They have an adequate supply of newspapers for passengers, as well, something few American carriers do any more.  As to inflight entertainment, I believe some of their planes are equipped different ways.


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 2, 2006)

Yep, it connects through CDG.  I'm assuming we can make the 50 minute connection.....if not they can squeeze us on something later, I'm sure.  I'm assuming the movies will be in French, so hopefully that will help me get my kids to sleep on the flight over (my 5th grader likes to sit up all night and watch the movies).  On the daytime flight back.....well, guess they can bring along a good book and some gameboys!  Wonder if they'll let me bring my knitting needles on board?

Do you know if I enter my NW FF # on their website (AirFrance's) or if it's OK to give it at check-in?  I'll check online.  

Looks like I'll book it tonight.  The price just went up $24 each, so I'll wait and see if they drop back down in a few hours (and clear my cookies!).

Thank you everyone!  Any more comments, let me hear them!


----------



## Carolinian (Jan 2, 2006)

Flying into CDG from the US, you should have the individual entertainment units, which will have a choice of languages.

On their sale fares, may sure you have the fuel surcharge factored in.


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks everybody!  I'm in the processing of booking the tickets right now.  The individual entertainment systems would be great, but I won't tell my kids just in case we have a plane that doesn't have them.  We got those flying into CDG on Northwest last winter.....wow did the kids ever love THOSE!

Carolinian - even with all the extra fuel charges, taxes, etc. they ended up being the best price AND the shortest trip time.  

Thanks for the info on the Northwest SkyTeam partners promo......I had missed that on the NW website, so I want past and dug around until I found it.   I bank as many NW miles as possible to get tickets for Hawaii every other year, so THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 2, 2006)

Here's one more question....if the fare should go down with AirFrance, would they give me a voucher or refund?


----------



## Poobah (Jan 2, 2006)

*In Flight services*

Debi,

Where do you board the Air France flight? ORD? JFK?

The flight should be shown in the NWA system. From that you can get the type of aircraft. The ORD flights are 330s and all seats have the inflight movies.

The flights from JFK are 777 and they also have the personal inflight movies.

If you get into seatguru.com you can find out what entertainment is available for a specific aircraft on a specific airline.

Cheers,

Paul


----------



## Sydney (Jan 3, 2006)

hibbeln said:
			
		

> I'm assuming the movies will be in French, so hopefully that will help me get my kids to sleep on the flight over (my 5th grader likes to sit up all night and watch the movies).  Any more comments, let me hear them!



Debi, I just spoke to Phil who flew AirFrance 3 times in Nov. He says that he had in-seat entertainment which showed English movies on his flights and even the French ones had English subtitles.  Also, the flight attendants he had were fine speaking English with him.

Not long to go!


----------



## frenchieinme (Jan 3, 2006)

Air France IMHO is the Rolls Royce of air travel.  They treat you 1st class all the way.  As far as not having been spoken english on a flight by an attendant, all I can say of the 20 or so transatlantic Air France flights---this has never been a concern.  The attendants will address you in english with no problem.

Air France was offering FREE drinks back in the 70s along with FREE ear pieces when competitors used to charge.  Air France is a clasy act.

Have a good trip.

JMHO  of course  

frenchieinme


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 3, 2006)

OK, we're set on AirFrance with our tickets bought.  I checked and (of course!) with our luck we're on the planes that don't have the inseat entertainment system since we're flying out of Detroit.  I almost changed to a flight that connected through Washington because from Washington to CDG we'd have the inseat entertainment....but then after thinking about it since it's an overnight flight and I want my kids to SLEEP (!!!!!!!!!) on the flight and not stay up all night WATCHING MOVIES (!!!!!!!!!! For all of you that are familiar with 8 and almost 11 year old boys!!!!!!) I decided the big-screen movies would be just fine and hopefully not such a temptation to them.         So I'm hoping they show really boring French movies in bad English subtitles all the way there.  On the daytime trip home, they can show the GOOD movies.

OK Lang, we're off to follow in your footsteps to Spain!  The boys are chomping at the bit to get there.  And they are especially looking forward to Morocco.  They've been saving up all their money to buy "things" in Morocco...I think they are hoping to find swords or daggers or something like that.  Hmmmmm?!  I sense a problem with customs in our future.   Hope you survived your move and are enjoying your new home!

Thanks everyone for setting my heart at rest about AirFrance.  Glad to see they have a loyal following.

And I promise to post a review of Club Bena Vista when we return!

Thank you also to everyone that has recommended CarJet for car rentals in Spain.  We just booked with them and were VERY happy with the car and rate we got.


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 7, 2006)

So I was on TripAdvisor and happened to see a posting about AirFrance.  Curious, I went and looked.  Well, it was someone venting about missed connections with AirFrance.  After reading through the different posts, I realized that my 50 minute connection at CDG (from Malaga to Detroit via CDG) that I thought was "pretty tight" is indeed probably too tight to be made.  We will be switching between terminals that will require using the interterminal shuttle or whatever they have there.  People have told me that you can often wait half an hour just for the shuttle.  Different posters at TripAdvisor stated that if you aren't at the gate 20 minutes before boarding, they will give away your seat on an overbooked flight, even if they know you are connecting from another flight. (Of course, probably not that many people would have any wish to fly to Detroit from Paris in February???!)
I was concerned enough about this when booking to book the flight on AirFrance's website directly so if we missed the connection I could say "See, you guys booked us that tight, not Orbitz or CheapTickets!" and hopefully get a better outcome.
Now I'm going to go armed with other connecting flights to Detroit on AirFrance and their SkyTeam partners so if/when we miss the connection I can request "this flight" or "that flight".  In fact, there is one an hour later that would route us through Amsterdam and take longer, but we'd have the in-seat entertainment systems!  I better not tell my kids or they will drag their feet on purpose so we miss the flight.     
Anyone have any experience with making 50 minute connections at CDG?  Are we doomed to miss our flight?  (We're going to scope it out as we go through CDG on our way to Spain, because we will be exactly reversing the route through CDG, just with 2 hours going and 50 minutes coming home).


----------



## stonebroke (Jan 7, 2006)

*Air France Comments*

Two Stories about Air France one good one bad.

Good...  I got sick leaving Africa a couple years ago. On my flight out of Paris to Cincinnati I had an angel for a flight attendent.  She took wonderful care of me and I wish I had taken her name to write and thank her...and was it pure chance that there was a Doctor in the row in front who gave her advise on what to give me?

Bad...on part of the trip I traveled with an African friend.  There was a ticket agent in Paris that treated my friend just awful during our transfer stop in Paris.  Then only when we were leaving a week later did he discover she had taken his return ticket.  At the airport leaving our African destination after much discussion and haggling he discovered one of the local higherups was a friend of us.  That friend revealed there was a telex sent that day from Paris specifically saying that my friend should not be issued a replacement ticket if he asked for one.  Luckily this higher up at the local airport ignored the request.  It is the most blatent and mean spirited racism I have ever encountered. He had done nothing or said nothing to her.


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 8, 2006)

Around the Detroit area (a heavily African-American area, as you all know) I have heard many comments from African-Americans about the outright cold treatment they have received on AirFrance, and the unwillingness to help them in situations where things have gone wrong.  
Bad employees?  French attitude?  Or racism?  Hard to say!


----------



## Poobah (Jan 8, 2006)

*Air France*

I was trying to use Air France to Athens next Sunday, but they don't fly the DTW/CDG on Sunday. So I am NWA to CDG and then AF from CDG to ATH. The return trip is ATH/AMS/MSP. The company policy is that we can't fly a non-US carrier across either pond. So I couldn't get the AF back because the CDG/DTW back is not a code share. Apparently a code share qualifies as a "US Carrier." Go figure!

I do have a terminal change, so will report on how it goes. I haven't been through CDG is quite a few years, but I assume I will have to go through immigration since that is the entry point into the EU.  

Cheers,

Paul


----------



## JanB (Jan 8, 2006)

We refused a cheaper NW flight for an AA flight because of the connection time (40 minutes) - and we were connecting within the US, no customs involved.  You are very wise to take a list of alternate flights.  My minimum comfort time is about 1-2 hours, more if changing planes in a different country.


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 8, 2006)

I talked with AirFrance and they ASSURED us they we wouldn't have to clear customs, pick up our bags, or anything when transitting through CDG (from DTW on our way to Spain).  I remember in the past flying through Amsterdam and Geneva and Athens to other countries without having to pick up luggage or do any customs.  BUT because we are going between terminals and are going between the terminals that require using the airport transportation......that's where I expect to run into problems!
Let me know how your CDG change of planes goes!  We're going between Terminals D & E.  I look forward to hearing how it goes for you.  How much time do you have for your connection?


----------



## Poobah (Jan 9, 2006)

*CDG Transfer*

Debi,

I have two hours to change terminals assuming things are on time. ( I meet Jan's comfort criteria!).

I can't believe that you when you change terminals you don't have to go through immigration ("Passport Control"). Generally International Terminals are considered "No Country's Land" in the sense that when you are there you have left the country you departed from and have not yet entered the country you have arrived at.   Once you leave that terminal you are in the country where you arrived.

The baggage will be check all the way from MSP to ATH, so that won't be an issue.

I return from Greece around the 2nd of Feb and will post something then.

Cheers,

Paul


----------



## hibbeln (Jan 10, 2006)

Thanks Paul, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.  We leave here Feb. 16.  Keep track of which terminals you go in and out of, since that will give me some idea of what to expect!  I'm already kind of planning on catching the later flight back.......I'm going to have a friend pick up my dog at the kennel in the afternoon since I'm assuming we'll be back too late to get him.


----------



## hibbeln (Feb 7, 2006)

OK,Paul, how did the CDG connection go?  I assuming that by NOW you've made it home!


----------



## Poobah (Feb 7, 2006)

*Air France*

Debi,

Just got home last Thursday. My  transfer was fine, but I think your connect time might be a little dicey; don't dally. There is a lot of construction on CDG and we were bused in from the NWA flight to what looked to be a temporary facility. Immigration was not a problem, they sort of glance at your passport and wave you through 

It is quite a hike to the domestic (EU) terminals. There are buses, but I elected to walk. From the time the plane door opened until the time I got to Terminal D was about 30 minutes. I did stop at an information desk by immigration for directions. 

CDG is showing its age. Terminal D was a little ratty and most of the flights are bus gates. There are far more flights leaving than there are gates. There is a security check before you get into the boarding area. I went right through.

I did get my boarding pass for the AF flight when I did E-Check-in from home.

As I say, 50 minutes is about the minimum. When you get off the plane get moving.

Cheers.

Paul


----------



## andrea t (Feb 7, 2006)

I too have a 50 min connect time in June.  JFK-CDG-VCE.  Posted my concern on the Delta forum at Flyer Talk and the consensus was that we probably wouldn't make it.  So I'll go armed with a list of alternative flights to get us to Venice without too much delay.  Good luck.


----------



## Poobah (Feb 8, 2006)

*Connect Time*

The other thing you need to worry about is when they close the gate. I know KLM "closes the gate" 10 minutes before boarding. The fact that you have a boarding pass is irrelevant, particularly if they are overbooked.

There is a legal, but tight connection, AMS to ATH. The NWA inbounds from both MSP and DTW were about 10 minutes late. Between the two flights there were seven, business class, Platinum Elite flyers, with boarding passes who arrived at the gate before they actually boarded the plane. We were all denied boarding, because they had already given our business class seats away to coach overbook. They rebooked us on a KLM flight that left 8 hour later!!! The scene at the gate was pretty ugly.

The connect time may be 50 minutes, but you need to be there about 15 minutes before the flight leaves, particularly if it is a bus gate.

Cheers,

Paul


----------



## hibbeln (Feb 8, 2006)

Well, once we're back, I'll let you all know if we made it or not!  My kids are actually hoping we DON'T make it, as they're hoping we get put on a Lufthansa flight (via Amsterdam to DTW) that has the inseat entertainment systems.  So I'm wondering how fast I'm going to be able to get my kids to move now that they know THAT?!


----------



## hibbeln (Feb 25, 2006)

We made the connection!  Our flight landed from Spain at 9:25, but by the time we were at the gate and had managed to get off the plane (we were seated at the back of the plane) it was 9:40.  I must say I never even saw any buses linking terminals...you can do it all on foot and it is well marked.  There are horizontal people-mover-conveyor-belt things linking the terminals in sections, but of course when we were in a hurry on the way back to the USA almost none of them were working.  We arrived in 2D and our gate leaving was 76E.  76?  76!  I literally felt like we ran for 2 miles, I would love to know the actual distance.

So we were off the plane at 9:40 and did pretty much a dead run and got to the gate at 10:00.  You end up going through security multiple times.  I got patted down twice (probably because I looked like I was insane) and I ended up telling my youngest son just to leave his shoes OFF and run! (they were hiking boots that required a lot of tying and untying).  The flight left at 10:20 so at 10:00 they could have given our seats away.  In fact, as they scanned our boarding passes at the gate they all came up "Invalid Ticket" on the computer because we were "late".  No problem though.  It took us probably 10 minutes to go through the official stuff at the gate, scanning boarding passes and getting our carryon bags searched and patted down yet AGAIN!

What helped us was that it was in the morning on a Friday in February, so traffic at the airport was light.  Security lines were blessedly short.  AND there was a group of 70 people connecting from a Rome flight that was also really short and they were tearing along about 50 yards behind us to make the same flight (it must have been quite a sight, all these Detroiters running through the Paris airport).  Also, no one was waiting to fly standby and while the flight was full, it wasn't overbooked, so they weren't giving our tickets away right at 20 minutes before the flight.  Our flight ended up taking off almost 35 minutes late because of all the people with short connection times, but they made up the time in-route and we landed in Detroit on time and everyone's luggage made it!

I think we would have had a very different outcome if it had been on a busy day/time at the airport, if the flight had been overbooked, or if it had been in the high travel time.


----------



## ilisao (Feb 25, 2006)

Well, I'm glad you made your connection, because we missed our ours when we went to Spain last month!  We were assured by no less than 5 Air France employees that we'd make our connection.  We landed at 11:40am and had to make a 12:30 flight.  Our daughter was sick the entire flight from Baltimore to Paris - it was a 6 barf bag flight.  After we took the shuttle to the terminal, went through passport control, hauled our butts to the next terminal and went through security (all the while carrying a 4 year old and sick 6 year old), we arrived at our gate at 12:15pm.  They told us we could not go out to the plane at that time and that we could take the next flight to Malaga.  Oh, by the way, that flight is at 7:45pm.  I begged, pleaded, and nothing would budge them.  So, we spent a lovely day in the airport.  Our daughter slept most of the time and was feeling fine after that.  I do have to say, however, my kids loved the inflight entertainment system.


----------



## hibbeln (Feb 26, 2006)

The inflight entertainment system in the seats were great, though the only "kiddish" movie was "The Corpse Bride" on ours.  Northwest has a better selection, usually, for kids.  My 8 year old sat and watched all the cartoons, even the ones that were only in French.  My 10 year old played game after game of chess.  It really saves the day with kids!  I played so much solitaire on the system my eyes were crossing.

There is no way we would have made it if we were carrying smaller children.  That is a LONG run through the airport, isn't it?!  Luckily my boys are old enough that when I said "RUN!" they ran!  My mother-in-law was along and she was quite a way behind us, but figured as long as she could keep us in sight and we got to the gate to hold the plane....

I got really frustrated with the number of security checks we had to go through.  I wish they would figure out some way to just check you REALLY WELL once and not 3 or 4 times over.

I was just glad that our connection GOING to Malaga was long enough (close to 2 hours planned, and was actually more like 3 1/2 hours because our connecting plane was late) and it was the flight home that was the close call.  I don't mind missing a flight coming home, but would hate to delay my vacation.  

I hope you had euros in your pockets when you arrived in Paris.  That is a bugger of an airport to try to find an ATM machine.  I really feel for you with the sick kids.  I can't imagine anything worse.  On the flight home, I started feeling sick about 2 hours left in the flight.  The last hour I was seriously contemplating the barf bag, but grit my teeth so I wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment.  We landed in Detroit and I sprinted off the plane to the nearest bathroom and barfed.  Barfed going through immigration.  Barfed in the baggage claim.  Oooooh, that was a long ride home from the airport.  The last day in Spain we went to Morocco on a "Moroccan Fantasy" tour that included a Berber/Bedouin market town....it was raining and the streets were ankle deep in mud and excrement.....and then my 8 year old's shoes came untied.  So I tied them for him and frantically tried to clean my hands back on the bus with a wet wipe.  Obviously I didn't make them operating room clean because 24 hours later my own little gastrointestinal "Moroccan Fantasy" struck!  So I ended up with a day blowing out one end and the next two days (and counting) blowing out the other end.  Sigh.


----------



## Poobah (Feb 26, 2006)

*CDG Connection*

Debi,

Good for you!!! It is a hike to the other terminals. 

The "Sprint" must have been with you!

Enjoy the vacation.  

Cheers,

Paul


----------

