# How much does Wyndham know about you before the "Owner's Update" meeting starts?



## PcbIsMyHome (Aug 6, 2021)

Out of the four "Owner's Update meetings" I attended, the last one seemed to be the most aggressive.   Not awful, but more pushy than I've experienced before.

It started kind-of like an interrogation where the sales rep ask me several questions to clarify our ownership and even ask about a phone call I made a couple of years ago to Wyndham asking about a PIC week in our contract.

So that made me wonder:  *how much does Wyndham actually know before the meeting starts?*

I never put much thought into it before, but I imagine now that any information I offer will be used in a future negotiation tactic.

If they're able to see phone calls, can they see notes at where i lost interest in a previous meeting?  or maybe they annotate what piques my interest?  

I'm guessing all that goes to the cloud now so they will be more prepared for the next "owner's update".

What have you guys experienced?  Or have you worked in sales and know what they're saving to build a profile for the next meeting?


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## troy12n (Aug 6, 2021)

It's all over the place.

Some are experienced and know how to push you to get you to sign on the line that is dotted... as long as you know you aren't buying, you can be forceful with them and eventually they will let you go when they know they aren't getting a sale0

Some are just greasy used car salesmen types who like to lie, say half truths, use the tactic of disappearing for lengths of time to "get your paperwork" (which they already have), but is really just a way to make you sit and reflect on the lies they have told you. These are the worst.

Others are newer, inexperienced or just nice people who are in the wrong line of work and can't in good conscience lie to you in good faith. These are the people who you end up having a quick meeting with. These people typically don't last long in this capacity.

My worst update ever was with someone at Canterbury in 2019. She would not let up and we almost missed the ferry to Alcatraz because of her. She was a flat out liar.

Everything they need to know about you, they have before your meeting. The only exception is if they need to pull a detailed credit history, you have to sign a consent form.


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## jerrybev (Aug 6, 2021)

i was at an "update' today and they told me how many rentals I had done last year (guest certificates.)


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## Ty1on (Aug 6, 2021)

I swear half of your history they throw at you is just an intimidation tactic.


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## PcbIsMyHome (Aug 6, 2021)

troy12n said:


> My worst update ever was with someone at Canterbury in 2019. She would not let up and we almost missed the ferry to Alcatraz because of her. She was a flat out liar.


It's so weird, right?  The best was at my home resort in PCB last June.  The sales rep could not have been more honest with us.  He looked like a guy who'd been in sales for a while and, to my surprise, said "I really can't offer you anything that would benefit you right now."  It was that kind of treatment that made me happy to be a Wyndham owner.  I mean, we *might* be more one day, but I'm just trying to get back in the black at the moment.


Anyway, aside from the terrible salesmanship, how was Canterbury?  I used to do business trips in to San Fran but haven't been in several years.  I miss it and want to go back.  Well, probably when COVID restrictions lighten up a bit.


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## dgalati (Aug 6, 2021)

I sold all ownership to rid myself of any past history. I bought back in under a alias but found out last week at Midtown 45 they have my Worldmark info now.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 6, 2021)

I remember how unhappy they were that I wouldn't sign permission to pull a credit report.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 6, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> I swear half of your history they throw at you is just an intimidation tactic.



It is a FUD tactic without a doubt. It underscores the whole “something is wrong with your account” FUD tactic that is often used to get owners off kilter and attempt to control the narrative during the sales process. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## geist1223 (Aug 6, 2021)

All Sales Folks are encouraged/required to make Notes in your file after an update. Some of the Sales Folks have printed them out and let us review them.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 6, 2021)

Every time you attend an update there’s data recorded in the Wyndham CRM system that sales uses. Every time you are given an offer to purchase points - all of the offer info is recorded for reference. ALL of your account data is readily accessible to the sales organization. The replies in this thread serve as examples of this fact. 


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## troy12n (Aug 6, 2021)

PcbIsMyHome said:


> It's so weird, right?  The best was at my home resort in PCB last June.  The sales rep could not have been more honest with us.  He looked like a guy who'd been in sales for a while and, to my surprise, said "I really can't offer you anything that would benefit you right now."  It was that kind of treatment that made me happy to be a Wyndham owner.  I mean, we *might* be more one day, but I'm just trying to get back in the black at the moment.



I will be honest, and hopefully someone at Wyndham Sales QA sees this. I was already an owner, permanent VIPS, with a Temp VIPG, we had everything in Access at the time, she was trying to get us to convert to deeded at Canterbury, like they do. But the price/1000 was just absurd and she was trying to sell us up to Platinum. Used every trick in the book, INCLUDING renting weeks at Canterbury for conventions "which will pay your entire year's MF"... which probably isn't true, but regardless, the total sale and per month cost for the loan was about twice what my mortgage is. I told her that and it didn't matter, "but if you keep your points in Access you will pay a lot more in MF", which may have been true per point, but not at more than the monthly cost of another home mortgage payment... super shrewd. She said she was a supervisor there too. Younger woman. Probably very successful salesman, but wasn't a fan. Not the way to treat anyone, let alone existing owners who had already bought in twice at that point.


A week later, we had a update at South Shore (Tahoe) and it was very pleasant, low pressure. I told that saleslady my experience and I could see the absolute look of horror on her face. She had been a salesman for Wyndham for many years too and some of the things I said seemed to upset her. She had a completely different approach. Didn't work, but I appreciated her tactics better. 



> Anyway, aside from the terrible salesmanship, how was Canterbury?  I used to do business trips in to San Fran but haven't been in several years.  I miss it and want to go back.  Well, probably when COVID restrictions lighten up a bit.



Canterbury is ok. The only times i've stayed there, I had 1BR Deluxe, which were decent enough. Pretty small, partial kitchen. It had a full fridge, but no cook top or oven, just microwave and toaster. I don't remember if it had a dishwasher, it may have had an oven actually. But it definitely wasn't a full kitchen, no in-room laundry either. There are no resort amenities other than fitness center. It's location is nice, it's a couple blocks from the cable car, a few ok restaurants nearby within walking distance. 1BR's have a queen size bed, btw.

Honestly for the points, i'd rather stay at the Donatello. Better location in my opinion. Rooms are smaller, more resort amenities, and a roof top deck which is cool and has nice views of the city. Canterbury doesn't have that. Donatello is also closer to a couple better restaurants, and the cable car, and Union Square. Donatello also is mostly set up as a hotel. All Suites, no bedrooms, so really no kitchen in the rooms, just microwave and mini fridge. At least the ones i've stayed in. I have not stayed in any of the former Shell timeshare rooms, they may be different. But you have a king size bed and the rooms are decent enough.

Canterbury also has Presidentials, and some of those have full kitchen, and more room, but take a look at the price charts... I think Canterbury is overrated. But it's the best timeshare in San Francisco I think. I've not stayed at the Worldmark or the two other former Shell facilities we now have access to (Inn at the Opera, Suites at Fishermans Wharf) so can't comment on those.


Lots of homeless and drug addicts in San Francisco, it was a mess with feces and urine on the sidewalks. There's a Walgreens near the Donatello that is heading towards the "tenderloin" part of town and there were some real low lives out there. The rest of my stay that time I walked a little further to the CVS which was in a nicer part of town...


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## 55plus (Aug 6, 2021)

All this is why I don't do these so called, "presentations". I have better things to do than listening to their lies and BS, and have some flunky make noted of what I said and my opinions. It's like, Big Brother is listing and watching.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 6, 2021)

It is a sales technique to gain repour with you, to either A)  make you feel good about your ownership and what you know or B) to position themselves to help you make better use, if you sound bit clueless.  

They should know exactly what you own at Wyndham, but they might not know what other timeshares you have, if you have other systems.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 7, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> I remember how unhappy they were that I wouldn't sign permission to pull a credit report.



I always use my credit card with the lowest credit limit.

My comment is about Vidanta / Mayan Palace , where I own. / I sort of assume that the credit limit of the card I use at the front desk check in might be "shared" with their Vida Sales owner update team. (regardless of any relevant privacy regulations in Mexico)


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## VacayKat (Aug 7, 2021)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> I always use my credit card with the lowest credit limit.
> 
> My comment is about Vidanta / Mayan Palace , where I own. / I sort of assume that the credit limit of the card I use at the front desk check in might be "shared" with their Vida Sales owner update team. (regardless of any relevant privacy regulations in Mexico)


I did not think your credit limit on the CC you use to checkin could be seen by merchants. My understanding is that they authorize for a certain amount and put a hold on it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 7, 2021)

I haven't attended an update since 2008.  We unplug the phones and tell them no at the "parking pass" desk.


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## VetteSteve (Aug 7, 2021)

We are at Ocean Blvd. in Myrtle Beach right now.  I refused to go to their so-called information session.  They are calling twice a day to try and get us to go.  I finally unplugged the phone.  We are Silver VIP and the day before check in I called about getting early check in.  I was told Silver VIP no longer has early check in rights.  So part of this new Leisure set up is you can pick your benefits if you sign up.  So you can get early check in as one of the choices, another is pick your floor and room.   We also have about 750K in resale access points.  Under the current website there is no way to track Wyndham bought points vs resale points.  I received the email stating resale points would not be able to be used for VIP benefits.  Because of our Wyndham purchases my VIP benefits, which we use the 10 to 13 month booking window, will be worthless.  Our Wyndham purchase, we have 105K in Access and 283K in Williamsburg.  I found out early on that I could not book any reservation using the Williamsburg points in the 10 to 13 month window.  Before it was buy access now the new selling points are get into properties that have lower MFs.  It just goes on and on. We go on vacation to rest and enjoy our selves.  I HATE checking for the all the crap to get you to go to a meeting and when you refuse the constant calls.  I am so fed up right now I am about ready to cut our losses and sell it all off.  We will see how it goes from here.  Thanks, Steve


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 7, 2021)

VetteSteve said:


> I was told Silver VIP no longer has early check in rights. So part of this new Leisure set up is you can pick your benefits if you sign up. So you can get early check in as one of the choices, another is pick your floor and room.



If you are grandfathered VIP then the statement about the early check in isn’t true. It’s also a FUD scare tactic used by sales regarding the “you must sign up for your new benefits.” That’s pure BS. 



> We also have about 750K in resale access points. Under the current website there is no way to track Wyndham bought points vs resale points. I received the email stating resale points would not be able to be used for VIP benefits. Because of our Wyndham purchases my VIP benefits, which we use the 10 to 13 month booking window, will be worthless.



ARP reservations have nothing to do with VIP benefits, unless you are referring to VIP RARP which allows for reservations 11 months out. Your ARP window is tied to your contract type and location not to VIP. If sales told you this it was another falsehood. 



> Our Wyndham purchase, we have 105K in Access and 283K in Williamsburg. I found out early on that I could not book any reservation using the Williamsburg points in the 10 to 13 month window.



If you own a CWS contract for a Williamsburg resort then you can use those points to book in the ARP window at that resort. Your contract may or may not also have RARP privileges to other Williamsburg resorts.



> Before it was buy access now the new selling points are get into properties that have lower MFs. It just goes on and on. We go on vacation to rest and enjoy our selves. I HATE checking for the all the crap to get you to go to a meeting and when you refuse the constant calls. I am so fed up right now I am about ready to cut our losses and sell it all off. We will see how it goes from here. Thanks, Steve



If you own CWA - the FUD sales tactic is to sell you on the fact that owning CWS is the better route and will open up more priority inventory if you switch. If you own CWS - the FUD sales tactic is to sell you on the fact that CWA is the better route and will open up more priority inventory if you switch. In your case you own both - like I do - so it’s a harder sell - but often they will try to convince you to consolidate into one of the two ownership types. It’s all BS for the most part. If you want to learn how to use what you own - ask questions here on TUG or contact owner resolution directly - never speak to the sales division about ownership questions. Remember that the entire update is run by the sales and marketing division - no one from owner resolution is ever in attendance at the update meetings - which tells us the intent of those meetings is to sell product - not to educate. 


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## Lansdowne (Aug 7, 2021)

I am always surprised that Vistana sales folks don't know about my Marriott ownerships and vice a versa. You would think they have access to each others system since it all can be converted to Bonvoy points. We usually vacation at a resort for 9+ days at a time so there always some down time when we can attend a sales presentation where the offer at least covers a nice lunch. At 99% of them they are fairly cordial and unfortunately many times we know more about their program than they do. We generally find out something new that is going on or confirm that the merger is very much incomplete. Sometimes we go just to find out what the encore packages are like - we have found some to be very good values in these packages. Most of the presentations are very cordial and because of our portfolio we get immediately bumped to a manager type. Most of the time we get a good information about where they are going. In Hawaii we attended a Marriott and a Vistana presentation - neither lasted very long and in one got enough to pay for our Hawaii occupancy taxes and in the other we got a nice lunch with drinks. I actually believe if more owners go to these presentations and walk away without making any adjustments to their portfolios they are sending a message to the developer that they have little to offer owners right now.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 7, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> I am always surprised that Vistana sales folks don't know about my Marriott ownerships and vice a versa. You would think they have access to each others system since it all can be converted to Bonvoy points. We usually vacation at a resort for 9+ days at a time so there always some down time when we can attend a sales presentation where the offer at least covers a nice lunch. At 99% of them they are fairly cordial and unfortunately many times we know more about their program than they do. We generally find out something new that is going on or confirm that the merger is very much incomplete. Sometimes we go just to find out what the encore packages are like - we have found some to be very good values in these packages. Most of the presentations are very cordial and because of our portfolio we get immediately bumped to a manager type. Most of the time we get a good information about where they are going. In Hawaii we attended a Marriott and a Vistana presentation - neither lasted very long and in one got enough to pay for our Hawaii occupancy taxes and in the other we got a nice lunch with drinks. I actually believe if more owners go to these presentations and walk away without making any adjustments to their portfolios they are sending a message to the developer that they have little to offer owners right now.


Westin's presentation on Maui, they looked up what we own, which is basically a lot of Sheraton Broadway Plantation, and they knew not a thing about our Marriott ownership.  The presentation was a bit on the fraudulent side, with the talk about Marriott and Vistana combining "very soon," so do it now and be ahead.  The lady compared the Marriott in Myrtle Beach to our SBP and what she said didn't make sense.  She is in Hawaii, so she doesn't know much about anything other than Maui and Kauai.  

I told her I could reserve my weeks at SBP up to two years out, if I book the deeded weeks we actually own.  She had to go and ask a manager about that one.  Kind of a strange presentation all around, with the white board showing Marriott and the umbrella of both companies and the insinuation that we will soon be able to book Marriott with options, if we bought today.


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## sullwoldholiday (Aug 7, 2021)

Talking about last year we had vacations planned in Kauai and Myrtle Beach.  We had to change our Hawaiian location twice.  Wound up staying on the Big Island which we love also.  Very different.  No presentation at Wyndham.  In September we went with friends for ten (10) days to Myrtle Beach.  Stayed at Marriott Ocean Shores.  Very nice as we had the whole floor to our selves.  We had reserved two (2) two (2) bedroom units for us and friends.  Went to a presentation that was short and sweet.  Told the salesperson that we sitting to hear what is new and we are not buying.  Lasted 45 minutes.
This year we are going back to Hawaii with same friends with a week on the Big Island at Wyndham Hawaiian Village in Kona and eleven (11) days on Kauai at Marriott Kauai Lagoons.  Hoping that Covid dose not shut us down.


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## troy12n (Aug 7, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> and the insinuation that we will soon be able to book Marriott with options, if we bought today.



I think all the companies have done stuff like this when they take over another timeshare... I have heard at Wyndham updates back as early as 2018 that we would "soon" have access to book Shell properties and also the ability to directly book Worldmark properties via Club Pass directly through the website. 

Well we know it took until some time in mid-late 2020 to get access to* some *Shell inventory (I don't think we have access to all Shell properties, I could be wrong though), and the Worldmark thing will probably never happen


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## futagochan no otosan (Aug 7, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I haven't attended an update since 2008.  We unplug the phones and tell them no at the "parking pass" desk.



hee hee - I unplug the phones as well.  I also haven't removed my ex-wife's name from the title, so when they ask if she is present, I say that she had to work.  They are always annoyed that I have a way out of saying 'yes' to any sales pitch.  ("Gotta check with the Mrs first!")

I'm Wyndham Platinum, so I do not see any value in adding anything more to what I already have and that is exactly what I tell the sales reps which typically ends the conversation.  If it doesn't, then I say I need more vacation time between my kid's school and work and ask them if they can help with that.  End of conversation.


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## StapelmanMO (Aug 7, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> I swear half of your history they throw at you is just an intimidation tactic.


Yep, I was having a very bad day, multitasking work, preparing dinner, getting kid under control when we got a how are you doing turned solicitation call from a timeshare company.  I yelled %#@$$ and slammed the phone down.  Been to two onsite updates and both times the salesperson read the notes that I did that---as if I feel bad about it.


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## Free2Roam (Aug 8, 2021)

Way back before online booking was available... probably early/mid 2000s I was annoyed that the sales person knew what reservations I called and attempted to make but no availability. The pitch was that I needed to buy more points to get those reservations. That told me they were tracking everything... good for them as a business, but too intrusive for me. I think that was my last time attending a Wyndham sales meeting.

Edited to add... I was mistaken. That was the last Wyndham sales meeting I *signed up for at check-in*. There was one time at Avenue Plaza in 2012 when a salesperson showed up at our door less than an hour after we checked in. He started with pleasantries, giving good info about the area. It took me a few minutes to realize he was sales... I was instantly annoyed and stopped communicating except to say - not interested, we're leaving for dinner so you need to leave.


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## clifffaith (Aug 8, 2021)

Free2Roam said:


> Way back before online booking was available... probably early/mid 2000s I was annoyed that the sales person knew what reservations I called and attempted to make but no availability. The pitch was that I needed to buy more points to get those reservations. That told me they were tracking everything... good for them as a business, but too intrusive for me. I think that was my last time attending a Wyndham sales meeting.
> 
> Edited to add... I was mistaken. That was the last Wyndham sales meeting I *signed up for at check-in*. There was one time at Avenue Plaza in 2012 when a salesperson showed up at our door less than an hour after we checked in. He started with pleasantries, giving good info about the area. It took me a few minutes to realize he was sales... I was instantly annoyed and stopped communicating except to say - not interested, we're leaving for dinner so you need to leave.



We stayed at Avenue Plaza through Worldmark 4-5 years ago and at that time they hit us with "we'll bring maps, coupons and a welcome gift to your room". The front desk was a madhouse and we thought the "come to your room" was to clear the crush of people. Eventually we realized we were in the midst of a stealth timeshare presentation for WYNDHAM, not even Workdmark, and we ordered the gal out of our room and I held the door for her and yelled down the hall at her until she was able to escape into the elevator. Every time since when Avenue Plaza comes up on Facebook, I reiterate the "don't let them come to your room" warning.


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## geist1223 (Aug 8, 2021)

We had the in the Room experience several years ago at Avenue. The Gal knew nothing about Worldmark. She kept using Terms associated with Wyndham that had no relevance to Worldmark. We told her to leave.


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## Luvtoride (Aug 10, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Every time you attend an update there’s data recorded in the Wyndham CRM system that sales uses. Every time you are given an offer to purchase points - all of the offer info is recorded for reference. ALL of your account data is readily accessible to the sales organization. The replies in this thread serve as examples of this fact.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's why we should have all invested in Salesforce or other CRM Software companies instead of Timeshares?!  LOL


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## hhd1992 (Aug 10, 2021)

I am sure they also run a general web search on your name, where they get a *totally generic* picture of (what most people think are) your finances. The number they see is primarily based on public data about the real estate you own.  So, if you live in, say, DC, that number may sound like you live in a mansion, instead of the tight one bedroom you actually own. I realized that a few years ago when I attended a 'presentation' a few months after buying a condo at a different state.  As an ice breaker, I guess, and completely out of the blue, without any sign from me, the salesperson brings up that other state. Did I just get a new job? Am I planning on moving near blah blah place? I was taken aback as I had not idea how that came about. Kept my blank face, question marks all over my eyes, and the issue died out. Right after all was over, I run a websearch and, sure enough, all was there in plain site. My 'worth' in numbers. Only, since the numbers didn't exactly add up, I realized the only numbers taken into account were from public sources, i.e. RE assessments mostly. So off I went and requested complete removal of my name. And since then I keep repeating this regularly, to make sure nothing new slips in/out. 

Fast forward a couple of years later, and here I am at another presentation. This time at the Clearwater Beach property. The salesperson has drawn a complete blank after a web check. I do not exist on the web. I tell him about a couple of the timeshares I have, no details, and he cannot get any. We talk about trips, it becomes clear there are not  many places he could offer that I have not been and not many left on my bucket list. He shows me numbers, but when I laughed at the interest they were showing he figures there wouldn't be 'credit check'. In any case, the numbers were OK for me, until I heard that I would have to pay a fee to deposit my weeks from other resorts with the system. He didn't expect me bursting out laughing. Oh, well. We wasted the required time by him moving away, the manager coming, etc. etc. but they were pretty clear they weren't getting anywhere, so right on cue they signed the paper for my goodies and off I went. 

BTW people, YOU aLL Wyndham members at TUG are responsible for that presentation . Made me curious about Clearwater Beach and I jumped on the offer for a 4-day visit (well, I didn't dive right in, I worked the offer to more than double the initial pot. After all, I would have to make time to go and my way there!). -- And as an aside, I found the much lauded Clearwater Beach properly quite pedestrian. Rooms OK, small, swallow and crowded pool, even more crowded jacuzzi... and eminently crowded beach. The Hyatt next door gets better grades for space. But all in all, I'd rather be in St. Pete beach.  -- Thanks for the trip though!!!


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