# HGVC -Just TS salemen lies or truth?



## Bill4728 (Sep 9, 2006)

We just got back from Hawaii after staying at the new HGVC TS on the Big Island. 

Heard two things that I don't believe.

1. Elite owners will now be able to make a full week reservation at *any* HGVC TS at 12 moths and not have to wait for the 9 month open season.

2. Hilton Honors will not  be available to resale buyers. 

Just TS salemen lies or truth?


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## timeos2 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Sales weasels speak. Half truths are best you can get*

Don't know the specifics about HGVC but, if a sales weasel said it, chances are that you can buy it for 50% of the cost quoted and the facts were twisted to make it sound good for them.  Why would Hilton Honors Points be tied to retail only? I can get them as a non-owner!  Sounds like "weasel droppings" to me.


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## biswassb (Sep 9, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> We just got back from Hawaii after staying at the new HGVC TS on the Big Island.
> 
> Heard two things that I don't believe.
> 
> ...




The whole timeshare business is dishonest.  Very rarely I encounter truth.  Particularly the timeshares that involve big corporations like Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, you can't expect truth.  They are either not telling everything, or lying and in most cases continuously changing the rules of the game in their favor.  They are in the business of making money and make owners/share holders happy.  If you work for them you have to do whatever you have to do to make a sale.  It is hard to even blame them for lying.  Only newbies with a big name timeshare purchase gets very elated.  It is all downhill from there.


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## dvc_john (Sep 9, 2006)

Haven't heard of either of these, but it's possible it's something that's coming.

Currently, elite members have advance access to the 1 or 2 resorts currently being sold. I believe right now that's Waikaloa and Las Vegas strip. Maybe they are going to open that up.

Perhaps on Hhonors points, he meant converting HGVC points to Hhonors points. I haven't heard of any change. But that's the way Marriott does it. Cannot convert a Marriott week to MarriottRewards points on a week purchased resale and not thru Marriott resales.

You've been told by others not to believe everything a TS salesman tells you. Well, don't believe everything you read on tug! I'm learning that some people are extremely negative individuals!


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## Carmel (Sep 10, 2006)

biswassb said:
			
		

> The whole timeshare business is dishonest.  Very rarely I encounter truth.  Particularly the timeshares that involve big corporations like Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, you can't expect truth.  They are either not telling everything, or lying and in most cases continuously changing the rules of the game in their favor.  They are in the business of making money and make owners/share holders happy.  If you work for them you have to do whatever you have to do to make a sale.  It is hard to even blame them for lying.  Only newbies with a big name timeshare purchase gets very elated.  It is all downhill from there.



Ouch! Not sure if timeshare companies and timeshare salespeople are that unlike any other business - sure, their goal is to make money. Before I bought Marriott & Hyatt I often stayed at their hotels (and continue to do so). I doubt that any branded timeshares are going to intentially hire liars and cheats at the risk of selling a lousy week of timeshare - and perhaps offending their core frequent hotel guest. If I ever felt I was lied to, or felt cheated in any way, you bet I would tell as many people as I know. If I really enjoy the product (and the process) which I have, I might tell 1-5 friends. In the long run, the reason that I was attracted to Marriott and Hyatt in the first place is that at the end of the day, though I paid more than an off-brand, I knew the quality in the product and the consistency in service was worth the few extra bucks I parted with. Though I'm not a newbie, I'm still elated with my purchases and am always surfing the net for really good deals on additional weeks - now that I know the products works.


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## sb1070 (Sep 10, 2006)

Carmel

  You can doubt it all you like, but it's very true.  Timeshare companies don't ask if you're a good liar on their employment application, but they do create an environment that makes it necessary for sale people to lie and deceive in order to make their quotas and keep their jobs


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## ZCar (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:
Timeshare companies don't ask if you're a good liar on their employment application, but they do create an environment that makes it necessary for sale people to lie and deceive in order to make their quotas and keep their jobs". 

That's an awfully broad brush, sb1070. Many companies set goals and if one doesn't meet them ... poof, gone ... and it's not always in sales.
I feel the about the same as Carmel. After nearly 10 years, we're still quite happy with our purchases.


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## sb1070 (Sep 10, 2006)

ZCar

Break it down some more.  Your response in it's current form doesn't make sense.  

How does what I said translate to being unhappy with a timeshare purchase???


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## ZCar (Sep 10, 2006)

You didn't say anything about that.
My comment simply ties to Carmel's response, "I'm still elated with my purchases ...". 
Gee, maybe I should have put a line space to separate the comment.


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## korndoc (Sep 11, 2006)

Hey guys, you are staying away from Bill's question!

I just went to the Hilton presentation in Hawaii yesterday and I asked directly if buying a Hilton ts on resale has the same penalty as Marriott bestows.  That is, you can't trade in for points if you buy Marriott on resale.  I was told that there was no such penalty.

Jeff


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## Bill4728 (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks Jeff,

I knew this was likely a lie but it hard to tell sometimes. I've always heard that HH is OK with resales so I thought this was untrue when he said that HH would not be OK with resales.

Did you get any info on the next phase of developement at Waikoloa? Our saleman didn't have much info.


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## biswassb (Sep 11, 2006)

Carmel said:
			
		

> Though I'm not a newbie, I'm still elated with my purchases and am always surfing the net for really good deals on additional weeks - now that I know the products works.



Well, so you are not  a Newbie and you are still elated.  Please educate me.  Please tell me why are you so elated?  Are you always elated with every purchase you made in your life? Or it is just with your hGVC purchase?

My math is as follows: Let's say you bought it cheap reasale for $12000 for 7000
HGVC points (2 BR plat).  And you are paying $795 per year as MF.  If you look at the total financial situation then you are loosing 10% return on your 12K investment which is $1200 and spending another $795 as MF.  Therefore your total payment to HGVC will be around $2000 per year.  You are getting 7 nights stay in a 2 BR condominium and in most cases it will be in resort in Orlando or Las vegas, not a beach-front property.  You are spending ~$300 per night.  It is OK but what is there to be so thrilled?  Do you believe that you will not be able to rent a similar week, 2BR, anywhere in the world for $2000 per week? Look at the TUG rental classifieds.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 11, 2006)

Much of the time renting does make more sense than owning but if you own you'll use it. If you rent, you may find a reason not to spend the money.

The hilton resort are very nice and yes, you may be able to rent one but when you're an owner you decide the dates and days of you visits. This ability to customize your vacation is important to many people. 

Also, you can rent but if you rent from HGVC you'll pay $500 night or $3500/week. If you can find a private party, you'll spend $2000/week but can you do that when and where you want?


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## biswassb (Sep 11, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Much of the time renting does make more sense than owning but if you own you'll use it. If you rent, you may find a reason not to spend the money.
> 
> The hilton resort are very nice and yes, you may be able to rent one but when you're an owner you decide the dates and days of you visits. This ability to customize your vacation is important to many people.
> 
> Also, you can rent but if you rent from HGVC you'll pay $500 night or $3500/week. If you can find a private party, you'll spend $2000/week but can you do that when and where you want?



Bill, I beg to differ:  In orlando the price range is 950-1500 for  a 2br including five star Marriott Grande Vista; not necessary to have HGVC.  In LV, look at the following HGVC rental.  Please note that I have nothing to do with this ad and it is a by a TUG member.  There are many more in GC or 5* resorts under $1500.

HGVClub on LAS VEGAS STRIP   available:11-26-2006   for rent asking: $650 
Las Vegas, Nevada, US West    ID:6300   (Gold Crown) 
TUG Ad# 50827 
posted 07-31-2006
expiring 10-31-2006 2 bedrooms 2 baths sleeps 6
Attention Rodeo Participants and Fans. Three weeks of units available. Hilton Grand Vacation Club located 2650 Las Vegas Blvd South from 11/26/06 to 12/03/06 and 12/10/06 to 12/17/06, sleeps 6 w/private 4 and full kitchen. In between have Carriage House located 105 East Harmon Ave from 12/03/06 to 12/10/06, sleeps 6, 1-Bedroom Master w/lockout, and full kitchen. Make reservations early. 
Web page link: www.hgvc.com and www.carriagehouselasvegas.com 
Contact: Marsen Gonnerman at 11462@impulse.net Phone: (805) 733-2009 (TUG Member)


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## Warren Scaman (Sep 11, 2006)

*The Devil is in the Details!*

I looked long and hard, capitalized on the HGVC HHV, EOY. Wife and Kids Love OHAU and that part of the Beach. Resale Ocean Front Platinum 9600 points ~$4.00. 

There is no way that If I spent ~$1.50 on a Floriday HGVC that I get HGVC HHV or Manhattan, like the Home resort 12 months out. However You will get 1 or 2 featured resorts that they pick out. @ 12 months like the Home Resort owner. 

I just felt that the elite status was overpriced at this time.  

Remember @ 9 months out you have a chance, with all other HGVCer's to pick up any location , Platinum for Platinum, Gold for gold , Silver For Silver , Bronze for Bronze.


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## Seth Nock (Sep 11, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> We just got back from Hawaii after staying at the new HGVC TS on the Big Island.
> 
> Heard two things that I don't believe.
> 
> ...




Both are incorrect.  Please email me sethnock@hotmail.com your name or the name of the salesperson so I can make Hilton corporate aware of this.  They will inform the sales person of his error or take action if it is not an error.  Hilton prides themselves on having honest sales people and would like to know of any who are not.


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## Seth Nock (Sep 12, 2006)

biswassb said:
			
		

> Well, so you are not  a Newbie and you are still elated.  Please educate me.  Please tell me why are you so elated?  Are you always elated with every purchase you made in your life? Or it is just with your hGVC purchase?
> 
> My math is as follows: Let's say you bought it cheap reasale for $12000 for 7000
> HGVC points (2 BR plat).  And you are paying $795 per year as MF.  If you look at the total financial situation then you are loosing 10% return on your 12K investment which is $1200 and spending another $795 as MF.  Therefore your total payment to HGVC will be around $2000 per year.  You are getting 7 nights stay in a 2 BR condominium and in most cases it will be in resort in Orlando or Las vegas, not a beach-front property.  You are spending ~$300 per night.  It is OK but what is there to be so thrilled?  Do you believe that you will not be able to rent a similar week, 2BR, anywhere in the world for $2000 per week? Look at the TUG rental classifieds.



How about using a 5% return ($13,000 * 5%) = $650+ $700 maintenance = $1,350.  That is about $200 / night for a 2 bedroom.  This is less than half what you would pay if you rented from the developer.


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## Steve (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi Seth,

I'm glad to hear that the information Bill was given is not correct.  I am finally in the process of joining HGVC, and I would hate to have them change the rules and no longer allow resale weeks to be converted to HHonors points.  I am very interested to hear what changes are coming down the pike...as well as find out where the new locations will be...but I'm sure Hilton will tell us when they are ready.

Thanks for helping to set the record straight.

Steve


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## short (Sep 12, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> 1. Elite owners will now be able to make a full week reservation at *any* HGVC TS at 12 moths and not have to wait for the 9 month open season.



This seems far fetched to allow elites to step ahead of owners in a sold out resort.  I think this would create a lot of back lash for Hilton to give away my priority right to someone who does not own at my resort just because they bought lots of developer points.

I'll assume this has no merit for now but if it comes through I will be all over Hilton.

Short


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## korndoc (Sep 12, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Much of the time renting does make more sense than owning but if you own you'll use it. If you rent, you may find a reason not to spend the money.
> 
> The hilton resort are very nice and yes, you may be able to rent one but when you're an owner you decide the dates and days of you visits. This ability to customize your vacation is important to many people.
> 
> Also, you can rent but if you rent from HGVC you'll pay $500 night or $3500/week. If you can find a private party, you'll spend $2000/week but can you do that when and where you want?



Bill, it seems to me that as an owner in a time share you don't always "decide the dates and days of your visits" unless you actually have a fixed week each year at your owned resort.  The Hilton system is a floating system, so you really don't know for sure until they give you the OK.  

As for the cost,  I am staying at the Fairways condo complex, just down the road from the new Hilton time share and the Bay Club on the Big Island.  I have been here since last Friday and will leave this Friday.  Granted the condo I am staying in is not glitzy but I am only paying $150 per night for a lovely 2 bedroom unit, very spacious with a full kitchen and very nicely furnished. The owners even have a computer here with wide-band DSL plus WIFI.   We face the golf course.  But the Bay Club and the new Hilton ts are not on the Ocean either.  Granted I do not have a bar at the pool, but there is a very nice pool with a jacuzzi and grills.  And if you check VRBO.com, you will find that this price of $150 is quite common here, rather than unusual.

Yet, even with my argument here, I still find the idea of ts ownership compelling.  Maybe it's because I like the glitz of the Marriotts and Hilton Clubs.  Maybe it's because I see the bargains available in TUG's classifieds or at sites like Redweek.com and I just can't pass up a good bargain.

Jeff


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## Seth Nock (Sep 12, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> We just got back from Hawaii after staying at the new HGVC TS on the Big Island.
> 
> Heard two things that I don't believe.
> 
> ...



I have just confirmed, neither 1 nor 2 is correct.  The sales agent will be retrained in the next few days. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 13, 2006)

Seth, 

You are great!!

Thanks for your efforts in this matter.


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## Warren Scaman (Sep 13, 2006)

*#2 Q*

Originally Posted by alwaysonvac
I'm not an Elite Owner but I have one of the old Elite Membership books

According to my old Elite Membership Book, Elite Members get
- Gold VIP HHONORS Membership (instead of Silver for regular members)
- Access to Premier Vacation Resorts Worldwide (Just a list of RCI resort that regular members have access to - not really sure if Elite members have any better access)
- *Early Reservation Privileges at Select HGVC Resorts* (for example in my book this was only available at HGVC at the Kalia Tower and you were able to reserve during home resort season even though this may not be your home resort)
- 10% discount on Open Season Reservation rates
- $10 discount on Club and Open Seasn Reservations booked online
- Dedicated Elite service line

Of course, there is also the statement at the end of the Elite Membership book that states
"Elite Membership benefits, services and qualification criteria may change from time to time at the sole discretion of HGVC. HGVC reserves the right to change, suspend or terminate Elite membership services or benefits at any time"


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## Warren Scaman (Sep 13, 2006)

*Also*

Quote by SallyMagoo

We recently went through a presentation at the HGVC Las Vegas Strip; they confirmed that Elite members don't have any advantage in getting into the New York Club.

Our presenter said that Elite members have a 12-month preference for booking a "floating" resort which will change from year to year. According to the presenter, it used to be the New York Club, and she said that "this year" it is the new HGVC at Waikoloa in Hawaii. She made it sound like the preference will be for only one resort which will change on an annual basis.


If only we could hear Truth and Wisdom fom a TS  Salesman, we could Trust them . Now who can we trust!


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## Seth Nock (Sep 13, 2006)

Warren Scaman said:
			
		

> Quote by SallyMagoo
> 
> 
> 
> ...



RESELLERS


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## korndoc (Sep 16, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Did you get any info on the next phase of developement at Waikoloa? Our saleman didn't have much info.



No, Bill.  The next phase never came up in our conversation.  

He spent a lot of time showing us all the hotels around the world we could go to with the 8400 points we would have if we bought at the Waikoloa.  I didn't catch that this would only be 6 days v.s. the 7 days I would be giving up.  

He also spent a lot of time telling me how he checks the last minute get aways on RCI which I would be able to go to for about 4800 points.  But now I read on another thread that we really would not have easy access to the RCI web site for these getaways, that we would have to be on the phone with our Hilton representative to check them out.  A pain if you want to check daily. 

Jeff


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