# San Clement Cove v.s. Winners Circle



## korndoc (Jun 3, 2006)

I am looking to buy my first time share...got the bug.  I love the quality of the Marriotts, like the idea of lock-outs for better bang for the buck and am intrigued by the Marriott Reward Points, giving the resort up every other year so you can travel on them every 4 years.   Also, I assume the trading power, both externally and w/in Marriott is superb.

But the cost just seems so high when there are timeshares along the So. CA coast for so much less.  We generally do not plan on returning to whatever resort we own year after year, so super trading power is important to us.

So what do you think would be better?  I saw these sales this week:  Winners Circle, week 28, on RCI w. a maintenance charge of $518, or San Clemente Cove, all year float on II, with maintenance of $628?  Both are 1 bedroom selling for around $4500.  The Cove is across the street from the beach.

We could drive to either one for weekend get aways in the off season, if availble, and could happily stay at either resort should we not be able to get away in any particular year.  We live in San Diego.

Thanks for your thoughts...both on the 2 resorts as well as comparing these to the value of any other resorts, including Marriott.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## BevL (Jun 3, 2006)

I own a couple of SoCal units.  First off, you need to decide which exchange company you're going to be doing business with.  If it's RCI, I'd definitely take the Winner's Circle.  Lower maintenance fees, at this stage anyway, and it's a fixed week - no phoning in like a madman and hoping you get a summer week.  Week 28 will allow you to search for pretty much anything ongoing, including larger units than what you deposit.

If you're going with II, I think you'd need to find out, if you can from comparing with other TUGgers, what sort of trade power you'll have.  II is much more sticky in only allowing ongoing searches for the same size unit as what you have, and I believe they give much, much higher weight to quality of unit than simply demand.

That's my .02 worth.

Bev


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## sandesurf (Jun 3, 2006)

I would suggest that you visit both resorts and take a look inside. We've traded into San Clemente Cove (through II) and found the unit very small. We had port-a-crib at the time and it wouldn't fit into the bedroom! The location was very nice though and after the first few trains blairing their whistles in the middle of the night, we found it charming. :0 
Had the worst luck with weather on that trip though. A whole August week of NO sun!!! Luck of the draw.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2006)

With Winners Circle being a fixed week, you can deposit with RCI as far as two years in advance.  That helps if you want to be able to make long range travel plans.

Winners Circle is also part of VRI, so you also get the VRI benefits (reduced RCI membership, reduced fees and preferences for trades among VRI resorts, and VacationTyme benefits at other VRI resorts).


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## Steve (Jun 3, 2006)

If you want to trade into Marriotts, then you'll want a timeshare with strong trading power in II.  Both of the resorts you are considering exchange in both RCI and II. But if you like Marriotts and/or similar quality resorts, then II is the company to go with.

As Bev mentioned, II is very picky about quality.  I have stayed at Winners Circle twice.  While we enjoyed our vacations there both times, I'd have to say that Winners Circle is probably not a high enough quality resort to have the best trade power in II.  It's just not what II considers a "Five Star" resort.

San Clemente Cove is a resort I have seen from the outside, but I have not stayed there.  It does have the "Five Star" rating from II, however, it only has 1 bedroom units and it's clearly not one of the most luxurious "Five Star" resorts in the II system.  (II has internal quality scores in addition to the "Five Star" rating and there can be quite a range.  These internal scores are more important as far as trade power goes.)  

Personally, I think that San Clemente Cove will trade better in II than Winners Circle.  I don't think either will have top trade power, but I think you could easily trade into some Marriotts during the off season...esp. with San Clemente Cove.  Hopefully someone who owns at these resorts and exchanges through II will post with their experiences.

Steve


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## korndoc (Jun 3, 2006)

Thank you, everyone.  I guess a whole thread can be started on the value of II v.s. RCI....and I'm sure over the years there have been several.  My gut feeling is that both are good since they are So Ca, if I can score a summer week.  As Bev suggested, that is what makes WC apealing, being a fixed summer week.  Anyone have experience trying to score the summers in San Clemente Cove?

Our goal would be to visit Hawaii every 3 years or so, Tahoe perhaps every other summer or spring, and explore the rest of the country every year. We live in San Diego, so Tahoe is an easy get away.  A trip to a beach resort in the Carribean occassionally might negate the need to visit Hawaii as often.  We would like to visit Europe every 3 years.

Steve, you own at the Embassy at Hawaii and at WC.  Would you suggest owning at the Embassy Tahoe, and trading into Hawaii, or own at Poipu Embassy and trading into Tahoe?

I started the thread looking for an inexpensive way to trade to the places we would want to travel to.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2006)

korndoc said:
			
		

> Steve, you own at the Embassy at Hawaii and at WC.  Would you suggest owning at the Embassy Tahoe, and trading into Hawaii, or own at Poipu Embassy and trading into Tahoe?


If I were you I wouldn't consider Embassy Tahoe for purchase unless you want to stay there regularly.  And I wouldn't buy any resort in Hawai`i unless it was a specific place  you wanted to stay at regularly.  Hawa`i units don't make sense to own as traders, because they are not cost effective for that purpose.

Here's the list of trades I have made with our one-bedroom WC week 52 since we've owned it.  All trades are RCI unless otherwise noted:

Lawai Beach Resort, 2 bedroom unit, middle of April
Worldmark Vancouver, 2 bedroom, Presidents Week (3rd week of Feb).  Used this for local sightseeting and as a base for 2 days of skiing at Whistler.
Rams Horn Village, Estes Park, CO. 2-bedrooms, early August.
Mauna Loa Village, 1-bedroom, early August (through Trading Places)
Ke Nani Kai (Moloka`i) 2-bedroom early August (through HTSE)
Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge (North Lake Tahoe), 1-bedroom, March
Pahio Shearwater, 2-bedroom, early August
Whiski Jack Ironwood (Whistler), 2-bedroom, March

A week 28 should trade at least as good, and likely a bit better.

Playing on line at RCI when I've had week available, I can very good trades (as the above list demonstrates).  For example. looking at ski season in the western US, I can usually get matches anywhere but in the very top ski areas.  Whistler and the top Colorado resorts are hit and miss.  Lake Tahoe, eastern BC, Utah, Jackson Hole, etc. will be offered if available.  Lake Tahoe is pretty easy, plus there are some VRI resorts in the Lake Tahoe area where you would get internal trading preference.  In RCI, you can pull almost anything that RCI has available in Hawaii.

WC also has a good VEP score with RCI  It's low enough that RCI will show you inventory in locales that they don't show to top VEP resorts, but high enough to not block you from the top resorts.

It's not a top dog trader, but a top dog trader also costs more than you would pay for WC.  For the price paid, I think it's certainly a very good value.  WC is also firmly in control of the owners, with a very competeint Board of Directors.


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## ladycody (Jun 3, 2006)

Well...I'm prejudiced...but you might take a serious look at Worldmark. 
Get ready for gushing enthusiasm.  

The MF's are some of the lowest in the industry and they have a ton of properties that would be handy to you in southern california. Some of their other properties include HI, Fiji, Australia, Mexico, Tahoe, Branson, Victoria, Whistler, Vancouver, Vegas and more. 

Check out their resort options at http://worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/
It works like a hotel...using credits as the owner's "currency"...so you book on a first come first served basis up to 13 months out....and you can book more than a week (or less). Want a week in Tahoe one year and 10 days in Hawaii the next?...no problem. Want to do Whistler one winter for 5 nights and 2 weeks in Fiji the next?...go for it. Golf in Indio one spring 4 nights...visit Cabo the next for 8 nights?...your all set. I've got 4 nights in Leavenworth this summer attatched to 4 nights in a Seattle PH...so 8 nights, 2 different properties.  

It doesnt get more flexible than that...you're limited only (or rather mostly) by the size of your ownership...for example 7000 credits wont buy a week in a 2br in red season. An you do need to make sure, that when you want an extremely high demand period... you book as early as possible...like 13 months out at 6am when reservations opens.

WM also allows for bonus time and inventory specials that will enable you to pay cash (instead of using your credits) for last minute reservations or low-occupancy periods. For instance...2 nights in Seaside(Oregon coast) for off season(white) in a 2 bedroom cost me $105. (for a thurs/Fri) I got 2-2br units for 2 midweek nights each in Leavenworth in march for under $150....we brought family up and had the 2 units side by side. None of those little jaunts used my credits...they just allowed me to get some extremely inexpensive short trips in nice properties.

You can maximize your vacation time by choosing when&how to use it...a week in a 2br in Depoe bay(oregon coast) in red season would take 10,000 credits...but in Nov (great for storm watching) it's just 5000 credits. It's extremely flexible and has pretty good trading power from what I've seen...although I havent needed/wanted to trade yet. If you're able to travel in 45 days or less (which I sadly cant right now)...you can use flexchange and get a week somewhere for just 4000 credits.

The only downside I can see for you is that it would be a higher (although sane, I think) initial investment...but the flexibility, bonus time, and inventory specials were worth it to me....not sure if it would be for you. No need to fly if you want a drive-to destination...and no exchange fees required...just book a resort close to home.

These are not over the top Marriott or Disney type resorts...but then neither is Winner's Circle. So if you like very nice properties that feel like a home away from home...Worldmark might just be the answer for you.

Ok...gushing's done. 

Good luck in your search.


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## Pronkster (Jun 3, 2006)

You might also look into HGVC.  There was a thread recently started by a tug member,  stating there will be a new location opening in Carlsbad in 2007...(not yet confirmed by HGVC).  This is the system I own and love the flexibility of it.  

I see a 1 bdr. 3400 point unit listed in the tug classified ads for $3700, with MF's of $600.  It is at the Flamingo Las Vegas location, but in the HGVC system points are points and it doesn't matter where you own, except for home season booking.   Although this is not very many points, (I would personally not buy anything  under a 4800 point unit, costing about $8,000) it is a very cheap way into the system.  The 3400 annual points will get you a 1 bdr. unit during gold season each year.  As an example, there are 25 gold weeks annually in Las Vegas,  10 in Hawaii, and 24 in Orlando.  I only use these 3 locations as an example to show that at this cheap entry level $ amount, there would still be plenty of opportunity to book  a 1 bdr. week.  These are the 3 main locations of the Hilton properties which is most peoples complaint about the system.

With HGVC, owners become a member of RCI and can also trade through SFX.  From what I understand HGVC has great trading power, although I have never traded my weeks.

To better understand HGVC there is a great piece under the advice section explaining the ins and outs of the system.

Good luck whatever your decision is!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2006)

As long as people are talking about mini-system points groups, you might want to consider Vacation Internationale.  Not as big as the others, but with some good resorts in some good locations.  Prices are pretty attractive if you know where to look on the resale market.

Plus, Vacation Internationale is firmly in the hands of the owners, unlike Worldmark where the developer calls all of the shots and members are just along for the ride.


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## korndoc (Jun 4, 2006)

Oh Great!  I read Steve's reply and was about to buy Winners Circle, convinced it would be a perfect match...then I read LadyCody's letter and I began gushing for WorldMark  ....and then Pronkster gave more choices....Oy!

Thank you very much for your advice.  Much appreciated!    

Steve. thank you for your specific advice regarding Hawaii and Lake Tahoe as I was already checking the Embassy ads in the TUG classified.  Is VRI and Vacations Internationale the same thing?  Do you have a web address?

Ladycody, I met someone the other day who owned several timeshares and he also gushed about his Worldmark.  He also especially enjoyed the ability to pay a small fee to use nearby facilities for a few day get away or to put visiting family up.  He said the Worldmark points would need to be purchased from Worldmark, rather than at resale, to get that benefit.  Is this true?  He also recommended no less than 10,000 points.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 4, 2006)

korndoc said:
			
		

> Steve. thank you for your specific advice regarding Hawaii and Lake Tahoe as I was already checking the Embassy ads in the TUG classified.  Is VRI and Vacations Internationale the same thing?  Do you have a web address?


VRI and Vacation Internationale are separate and unrelated (but intertwined).

Vacation Internationale is a points-based multi-resort system that operated in the western Americas for years.  The developer sold and marketed under that name.  Later, the company that was providing resort management services was acquired by Sunterra, and Vacation Internationale became part of Club Sunterra, but operated like a mini-sytem within Club Sunterra (i.e., VI users could only reserve the VI resorts, not the entire Sunterra inventory, unless they converted to Club Sunterra.)  The VI website is, unsurprisingly, www.vacationinternationale.com

VRI, which stands for Vacation Resorts International is a resort management company.  Resort owners associations contract with VRI to operate the resort on behalf of the association.  See www.vrivacations.com

I believe that both VI and VRI were formed by completely different people and started operations completely independently of one another.  The similarity in names is purely coincidence.

Then a few years ago, Vacation Internationale owners terminated the management contract with Sunterra, and hired VRI to manage the resorts.  So now Vacation Resorts International manages the Vacation Internationale resorts.  But still they are completely separate, save for the fact that VI is a a VRI client.

After VRI finished intergrating VI into its operations, VI owners began receiving the standard benefits associated with VRI management that I listed previously.

VI owners have been going through a period of higher annual fees or special assessments (not sure which) as the VI board has been addressing some years of perceived neglect of resort facilities under Sunterra management (one of the reasons why Sunterra was replaced).  So their annual fees may seem high right now, but I believe they are expected to go down in a year or two.

I think VI is a pretty attractive system. and we're seriously thinking about selling one of current timeshares and buying into VI instead.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 4, 2006)

Pronkster said:
			
		

> You might also look into HGVC.  ...
> 
> I see a 1 bdr. 3400 point unit listed in the tug classified ads for $3700, with MF's of $600.  It is at the Flamingo Las Vegas location, but in the HGVC system points are points and it doesn't matter where you own, except for home season booking.   Although this is not very many points, (I would personally not buy anything  under a 4800 point unit, costing about $8,000) it is a very cheap way into the system. ...


This is where the price issue starts to kick in.  I suspect that 3400 point HGVC unit would not be able to get you the trades I listed above - at least not without combining points over a couple of years. So now you're looking at the 4800 point memberships, costing about $8000 instead of the $4500  you're looking at with WC.  

But at that 4800 HGVC level, you might have a top dog trader.  I'm not completely sure of that statement, though,  When I looked at HGVC three or four years ago, I concluded that I would need a 6000 point memership to get to the level I wanted to be at (and 6000 points used in RCI would get you one pretty serious annual trade through RCI).


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## ladycody (Jun 4, 2006)

I agree that VAcation Internationale looks good too.  It will probably be the next TS I buy.  

Jeff...as of right now, resales have the same value as developer bought (bonus time and all).  Having said that...there are rumors going around about some changes being implemented in the next 2-3 weeks...and that current owners would be grandfathered in...so you may want to do your due diligence and look/buy quickly while we're sure that resales retain all owner benefits.  Not sure how all that's going to pan out....it may not even affect current owners resale value...just future developer purchases.  

As for quantity...I agree that 10,000 credits would be at least a good starting point for you.....although a clever owner who likes to travel in off seasons can do well with say, 7000 credits.  You said you'll mostly stay in 1 BR (or maybe a studio).  10,000 credits would give you at least enough credits for 1 full red week plus a few days in red season....considerably more time of course in the off seasons (_esp_ if you book 5 night stays and avoid the fri/sat nights with higher credit costs).  When you buy, make sure you buy at the high end of the "range" you're looking at.  For instance the MFs are the same for 9000 credits and 10000 credits...so you may as well own the 10000.  

I recommend http://timeshareliquidationservice.com/ ....tell Dan or Mike that Christine from the forums sent you. Both myself and my FIL bought through them and were pleased.

WM basic info can be found here (note: some of the rates listed are wrong...for instance the bonus time and inventory specials rate is 4.2 cents...not 4 cents as stated in here...but the basic info all holds true.)
Vacation Internationale basics can be found here and deserves a look too.

Hope that all helps.


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## ladycody (Jun 4, 2006)

Reposted info...duplicate sorry...not sure how it happened.


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## funtime (Jun 4, 2006)

San Clemente Cove has recently been refurbished inside and looks great.  It is in a great location right at the tip of the pier in San Clemente and a stone's throw from the beach.  The one bedroom units on the top floor are small but on the first and second floor they are just fine.  We were on the first occupancy floor (sort of second or third floor in actuality because resort is on a hill) and had a roll away bed in the living room as well as the sleep sofa in use and it all fit.  There is a tiny patio where we ate breakfeast overlooking the pier and the ocean. Almost all of the units have some ocean view.  It is a gem of a resort.  The staff is also very friendly.  Also, if you reserved a summer week here you could easily rent it out for 900 to 1100 (I imagine you could rent out spring or fall for at least 700) and use that money to rent somewhere else if you wanted to.  There is a hot tub on the roof but no pool or grounds to speak of although there is a city park next door.  I would buy a unit here in a heartbeat if I had spare cash floating around and was not up to my neck in other timeshares!   Funtime


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## Steve (Jun 4, 2006)

*Read a little more about WorldMark...*

Before you rush into a WorldMark purchase, you may want to due a little reading here:  www.wmowners.com  You'll find a ton of information on WorldMark, including some of the issues facing the club, such as:

1) The devaluation of credits.  Traditionally, 8,000 credits got you a one bedroom red season week and 10,000 credits got you a 2 bedroom red week.  A lot of the new resorts being developed cost a lot more credits.  For example, the new San Diego resort costs 15,000 credits for a 1 bedroom...nearly twice the 8,000 club average.

2) The quality of the new resorts.  The new San Diego resort is actually a Staybridge Suites hotel that WorldMark just purchased.  It's right off the 163 freeway near the intersection with I-5.  The units don't have air conditioning and the "resort" doesn't even have a pool.

3)  Transit Occupancy Tax, or TOT.  Many of the new WorldMark resorts require you to pay TOT when you stay at them...similar to the tax you pay when you stay at a hotel.  This is double taxation...as you already pay property taxes as an owner.  Most timeshare developers fight vigorously any city which tries to levy this type of tax.  Trendwest, the developer of WorldMark, in contrast, has actually encouraged cities to levy this tax in exchange for a break in development fees.  

4)  The location of many of the new WorldMark resorts.  Trendwest has purchased new resorts in locations in Oklahoma, Illinois, Missouri...as well as some isolated areas in Arizona and Utah...which have very low occupancy.  But they keep selling the credits on the West Coast.  This makes it much harder to reserve the prime resorts in California, Oregon, and Washington.  At the same time, the club is carrying dozens of units which sit vacant most of the year.

5)  Most of these issues are at least partly a result of the fact that WorldMark's developer, Trendwest, controls the HOA for the entire company.  Unlike traditional timeshares where the owners control the board (and look out for their long term interests) after most of the units are sold, all WorldMark resorts are governed by one master HOA which is under the control of the developer.  The fox is guarding the hen house, so to speak.

Whatever you do, do NOT go rush out and buy credits from the developer!!!  The bonus time and all the other benefits are available buying resale exactly the same as if you bought from the developer.  The statement that you have to buy from the developer to get these benefits is a lie which is told at every WorldMark presentation.  Indeed, Trendwest has been sued by the state of California several times over their unethical business practices.

I very nearly purchased some WorldMark credits recently, but after doing some additional research, I changed my mind.  It may or may not be the right choice for you, but at least it's good to go in with your eyes open.

Steve


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## chemteach (Jun 4, 2006)

You should also phone San Clemente Cove to find out how they do their float week system.  I seem to recall it is a lottery system each year, so if you end up with a November week, it might not have great trade power.  If you can phone a year in advance to pick your week and you can be fairly certain of getting a summer week, I would definitely go with San Clemente Cove.  I would think it should trade very well in both II and RCI because it is rated highly for both.

I have looked at Worldmark many times, and it seems like a great product.  It is just a bit more expensive than the $4500 you mentioned.  

The important thing is that you are looking into what you might buy before actually buying.  That's the most important part of buying your first timeshare!  
Edye


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## korndoc (Jun 5, 2006)

You guys are terrific. Thank you so much for the advice.

Steve, you suggested Vacation Internationale and you also recommended Winners Circle partially due to its affiliation with VRI.  VRI only has 3 resorts in California with TUG ratings better than 8.0.  Vacation Internationale only has 3 resorts in the entire system with TUG ratings better than 8.0.

I have very limited experience with timesharing.  We have stayed at a few Marriotts for their 3-4 day promotions and we stayed for a week at the Kona Coast.  While the Timber Lodge was an 8.75 TUG rating, all the rest were over 9.0.  Now I don't want to sound like a snob, but I am unfamiliar with the resorts that are 7.5 or less so it is difficult for me to appreciate the value of VRI or Vacation Internationale.  I could visit Winners Circle or the San Diego Gaslamp Plaza, but since they are long sold out, I doubt I would be allowed to tour the facility and see some rooms.  

There are a lot of happy Time Share owners that do not own at the Marriotts and Westins, so I should probably take that as proof that these other resorts are also enjoyable.  And the  purchase and maintenance costs are much higher with the Marriotts, making these a better value.  Your comments will be appreciated.

Edye, I will call the San Clemente Cove this week.  Thanks for the tip.

Jeff


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## Neil Bock (Jun 5, 2006)

T_R_Oglodyte said:
			
		

> WC is also firmly in control of the owners, with a very competeint Board of Directors.



Thanks for that statement, Steve. We try our best.

Neil Bock, President, Board of Directors


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 5, 2006)

korndoc said:
			
		

> You guys are terrific. Thank you so much for the advice.
> 
> Steve, you suggested Vacation Internationale and you also recommended Winners Circle partially due to its affiliation with VRI.  VRI only has 3 resorts in California with TUG ratings better than 8.0.  Vacation Internationale only has 3 resorts in the entire system with TUG ratings better than 8.0.
> 
> ...



Jeff -

I think numeric ratings of resorts is pure and total garbage.  I don't believe in the TUG ratings, I don't provide numeric rankings of resorts, and I don't encourage anyone to waste their time and energy providing numeric ratings, processing numeric ratings, publishing numeric ratings, or worrying about numeric ratings.

I do strongly advocate resort reviews.  Instead of looking at resort numeric ratings, look at the reviews and decide if those are resorts that you would like to stay at and visit.

TUG numeric rankings are strongly driven by the amenity levels at the resorts.  If it is critical to you to have lots of amenities at the resorts you visit, then I suppose there might be some value from TUG ratings, And, if that is the case, you are wasting  your time considering anything other than HGVC, Marriott, etc.  

I suspect you are not that amenity driven.  In that case, there are many fine resorts that do not score highly in TUG numeric ratings.  We have stayed in many resorts that scored below 8 in TUG rankings that we enjoyed far more than the top rated resorts we have visited.  In fact, many of the features that result in those resorts achieving those top ratings are things that to us make the resort less attractive.

Given the varieties of perceptions in what people want and enjoy, it's total nonsense to think that the quality of a resort can be distilled to a single number.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 5, 2006)

T_R_Oglodyte said:
			
		

> Jeff -
> 
> I think numeric ratings of resorts is pure and total garbage.  I don't believe in the TUG ratings, I don't provide numeric rankings of resorts, and I don't encourage anyone to waste their time and energy providing numeric ratings, processing numeric ratings, publishing numeric ratings, or worrying about numeric ratings.
> 
> ...



Consider Mandalay Shores as a specific example of what I'm talking.  MS is a very well maintained facility, with nice units, in a great location.  It's an absolutely wonderful place to spend a week on the beach in So Calif.  The property and units are better than those at many of the similarly situated resorts in Orange and San Diego counties.  And the beach there is far less crowded than the Orange County and San Diego beaches.

There are only seven units at MS, and it's a project that was originally conceived for whole ownership.  So it has a residential character, rather than a resort character.  And with only seven units on-site, there can't be many amenities.

Whammo.  The TUG rating drops to 6.10.   But the lack of amenities is one of the key factors that contributes to the character of MS, and which contributes to the ability to just enjoy a relaxing week at the beach - in a real nicely sized and furnished real condo.  Not a converted motel; a real condo. And a huge, spacious golden sand beach that you can swim in and walk on for miles is about 50 yards away.

People look at the rating of 6.1 and think MS must be a dog of a resort.  As I said, the numeric ratings are garbage and you should completely ignore them.  Look at the reviews and match those up with your interests.


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## CaliDave (Jun 5, 2006)

if you just looking to trade in II for Marriotts, you should buy Orlando or Branson Horizons Marriott week. 

If you want to stay in some great beachfront So Cal timeshares. You should buy SC Cove. It has trading preference with all the Grand Pacific Resorts, which are some of the best locations in So Cal. 

I own SC Cove. It is a lottery type system. I got spring break for 06 and I got a suimmer week for 07. I think the only reason I got spring break for 06, was because I bought my week after the lottery had taken place, so I just had to book any week avaliable.

I think you need at least 4800 points in HGVC. Also, they do not trade in II.


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## daventrina (Jun 5, 2006)

Remember that in many cases one should consider buying where they wouldn't mind staying 3-4 years out of 5.
Winners Circle is probably in a much more desireable area, unless you happen to like San Clemente .

We' add to the consideration list

So. Cal. Beach Club
Carlsbad Inn
Coranado Beach Resort


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## BevL (Jun 5, 2006)

The lottery system would definitely take San Clemente Cove out of the picture for me, unless I was willing to bank if I got a good week and use it if I got a not-so-good week.

Bev


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## Lee B (Jun 5, 2006)

There are the hotel-type resorts, e.g. Marriotts and Westins, and all the rest.  The hotel-types are very very plush, full of niceties like spas, waterfall pools, lots of staffers etc., all of which are paid for by hefty owner fees.

The remaining good TS resorts are clean, comfortable, well-located with friendly staffers and maybe a pool or two, maybe an exercise room, maybe golf access.  Then of course there are mediocre to bad TS resorts.  You can learn how to spot them from how the exchange companies present them, and TUG reviews.

You need to know what kind of person you are:  a Pampered One who must have all of those amenities, or a Practical One who likes to visit nice places and do fun things around there.

SCC and WC both are for the practical types.  Marriotts are for the other type.  If you own a resort that trades with II, you <i>may</i> get a break and exchange into a Marriott, but don't count on it.

My impression of Vacation Internationale resorts is that they are practical, and so are their members:  Good folks who like to travel to good locations.  Members won't brag about how luxurious they are, but everything will function, they will have helpful staff and friendly vacationers and will be clean.

VRI runs each resort as its board directs, but I think that they guide them <i>at least</i> toward proper maintenance, cleanliness, sound finances and helpful staffers.

If you own a VI membership, you can go to any VI resort for no exchange fee, just VI points.  You don't need to be a member of an exchange company at all.  If you do have an RCI membership, you will get the VRI advantages with them when you want to go someplace that does not have a VI resort.  Again, all of this is for practical vacationers, not the Pampered Ones.


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## turkel (Jun 5, 2006)

You started out saying you wanted to stay in resorts like Marriott.  Why not buy Marriott then?  Not to put any other timeshare down but I doubt you will be able to trade to all the Marriotts you would like to get if your not in the Marriott system.  M. owners have priority no matter what season or resort they own.  For $5000 you could get a summer Palm desert which trades red with interval.  I have seen other go for much less.  For instance on ebay the other day there was a Hilton Head Marriott week 14 that was up for a lot less than $5000.  You think week 14 wouldn't be that hot of a time, but I opened the II book and its demand number is 120 ( average is 100 ) that 120 is similar to the high demand ski weeks as well as Hawaii weeks. I DEFINEATELY THINK IF YOUR WILLING TO WAIT AND SHOP FOR A GRET DEAL YOU WILL BE ABLE TO FIND A mARRIOTT YOU COULD AFFORD.  Just a thought my opinion is don't rush you will be paying those Maintanence fees for a long time and as my mother has taught me you get what you pay for   I bought Marriott a yr ago resale Shadow Ridge gold season for $7000 a great deal considering it is the lowest prices I have seen and it included a banked week no fees and 5 yrs II membership.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 6, 2006)

*Pampered vs. Practical*



			
				Lee B said:
			
		

> You need to know what kind of person you are:  a Pampered One who must have all of those amenities, or a Practical One who likes to visit nice places and do fun things around there.


Pampered vs. Practical.  Nice way to sum up in a few words, Lee, what I was saying in a lot words!


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## daventrina (Jun 6, 2006)

turkel said:
			
		

> Not to put any other timeshare down but I doubt you will be able to trade to all the Marriotts you would like to get if your not in the Marriott system.  M. owners have priority no matter what season or resort they own.


that is the way that it is supposed to work, but not always. We were able to get an exchange into Timber Lodge with our SMV no-Marriott resort. While our parents could not trade back into thier owm Timber Lodge resort


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2006)

daventrina said:
			
		

> that is the way that it is supposed to work, but not always. We were able to get an exchange into Timber Lodge with our SMV no-Marriott resort. While our parents could not trade back into thier owm Timber Lodge resort



Once Marriott goes to an internal exchange system, this problem will likely be a thing of the past.  

Steve


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## korndoc (Jun 6, 2006)

turkel said:
			
		

> M. owners have priority no matter what season or resort they own.  For $5000 you could get a summer Palm desert which trades red with interval.



Although it trades red with II, a summer in the desert, even a Marriott, couldn't possibly do as well trading w/in II as that San Clemente Cove, summer week, right?...It will supposedly beat out the Cove when trading within  Marriott.  However, within Marriott, this is considered a Blue, low end, season, so what Marriotts will it draw by the time all the other Platinum and Gold Marriotts get their share?  How have you fared with your Shadow Ridge?  I was thinking about a Gold week there as the costs are much more reasonable and it is a lock-out.



			
				turkel said:
			
		

> I have seen other go for much less.  For instance on ebay the other day there was a Hilton Head Marriott week 14 that was up for a lot less than $5000.  You think week 14 wouldn't be that hot of a time, but I opened the II book and its demand number is 120 ( average is 100 ) that 120 is similar to the high demand ski weeks as well as Hawaii weeks.



I spoke to someone at Mariott about those demand charts in II.  How can Palm Desert have several weeks at the top of the demand charts, equal to 150, when there are NO Hawaii weeks near that high.  The demand chart shows Summers in Lake Tahoe beating out Winters.  How can that be...they charge more to buy a Marriott ts in the winter than the summer.  The sales rep at Marriott dismissed the subject quickly by saying II is going to rework those graphs as there are not really correct.  (Of course, this is the same woman who told me Maui and Las Vegas had the only all year long Marriott Platinum time shares, when all the Hawaii Marriotts are Platinum all year. She also told me the designation of Platinum all year long came from II, when it appears Marriott gave it this label).

Jeff


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## JohnnyO (Jun 7, 2006)

It really depends where and when the OP wants to trade to.  If one is able to get a SCC summer week it should trade well in RCI for most of the locations the OP mentioned (except the II resorts of course i.e. Marriott).  If the week at SCC was any other week then it could still be banked for internal trade preference including prime summer weeks to any of the Grand Pacific Resorts, many which are on/near the beach in San Diego County and close driving distance to the OP....as well as back into a summer week at SCC.

The OP really needs to decide where they want to go and when.  I own at WC and I like the resort but would prefer to stay at most of the GPR resorts before I ever stayed at the WC....but that is personal preference.


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				BevL said:
			
		

> The lottery system would definitely take San Clemente Cove out of the picture for me, unless I was willing to bank if I got a good week and use it if I got a not-so-good week.
> 
> Bev


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