# Diamond Resort yrly maintenance fees?



## bdurstta

I am curious...what are the maintenance fees for Diamond Resorts?  I believe they are points based?


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## Egret1986

bdurstta said:


> I am curious...what are the maintenance fees for Diamond Resorts?  I believe they are points based?



I am an involuntary DRI owner (resorts acquired by DRI).  My weeks are not points based.  They are fixed weeks.  My maintenance fees are varying amounts by resort, which have increased significantly since the DRI acquisition two years ago.  I will keep my fixed weeks.  I have no intention of converting to DRI Points.


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## artringwald

DRI has a variety of ownerships. They can be fixed weeks, floating weeks, deeded weeks in their point system, or just points. The points have higher more flexibility, but also have higher fees because of the overhead.


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## nuwermj

bdurstta said:


> I am curious...what are the maintenance fees for Diamond Resorts?  I believe they are points based?



You might find some useful information in these links

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...-of-other-points-based-systems-to-dri.244394/

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/worried-about-dri-acquisition.237354/#post-1847441


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## gypsygirl1

Oh ya!!!  Big maintenance fees with them and the costs go up every year!


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## dougp26364

We use to own at Polo Towers. MF's for 2016 were in the $1,300 range for a 2 bedroom unit. Membership fee in THE Club (deeded weeks in points based internal exchange system) was in the $550 range. They got to expensive for the quality and locations (resorts in desirable destinations but not prime real estate in most cases). We deeded our units back at the end of 2015. Our DRI units were easily as expensive as our Marriott units and were considerably more expensive than our HGVC ownership, both of which have nicer resorts and better locations as far as real estate location in their respective destinations.


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## muzikman429

I saw this ad 
http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/t...t/details/AdNumber/1410119/sale/#prop_details

My main concerns are the maintenance fees and if I would only be able use the deeded week at this particular resort or if it would work at any of them. Also, would I be able to trade or exchange even as a resale?


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## R.J.C.

gypsygirl1 said:


> Oh ya!!!  Big maintenance fees with them and the costs go up every year!



To be honest, what doesn't cost more every year??


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## R.J.C.

muzikman429 said:


> I saw this ad
> http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/t...t/details/AdNumber/1410119/sale/#prop_details
> 
> My main concerns are the maintenance fees and if I would only be able use the deeded week at this particular resort or if it would work at any of them. Also, would I be able to trade or exchange even as a resale?



From what I can tell from the ad, this is a floating, 3 bdrm lockout, not points. Grande Villas trades through II so you wold have to be a member of II to exchange it. With the 3 bdrm lockout, you could use it as a single 3 bdrm unit for 10 or a nice 2 bdrm unit for 6 and a very tiny 1 bdrm unit for 4 each year (can't stand the 1 bdrm units at that resort as the "den" is literally the size of the couch). As it is a deeded week, you would not be in "The Club" and you would use it as you would any other floating week. The only part of Diamond involvement is who you send your maint fee checks to.


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## RLS50

R.J.C. said:


> To be honest, what doesn't cost more every year??


This is true.   However, my main problem with DRI, at least so far, is that I am still looking for the actual value they provide in return for such high fees.   So far in my own (limited) experience with DRI, they appear to want to charge annual maintenance fees at the same level of Marriott or Westin properties, but they don't seem to provide anywhere near the same excellent service, well trained staff, or the resort quality that Marriott and Westin does.

I would really like to know from existing DRI customers that say they are so happy with DRI, but are in effect paying $1400 or more per year to stay 1 week at a DRI property, where I can find a DRI property in the US to stay at that is as nice as one of the US based Marriott's or Westin's?


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## dougp26364

R.J.C. said:


> To be honest, what doesn't cost more every year??



While this is typically a true statement, our THE Club fee's escalated from $135/year when we joined to well over $500/year by the time we relinquished our units. This was in the spam of about 6 years. Add to that the typical 2 to 4% MF increases during that time and that's a little too inflationary for our pocket books. Our MF's really didn't go up anymore each year than the typical timeshare but, those "extra" fee's, which had little to nothing to do with running a timeshare, got way out of hand. And again, the MF's for our Polo Towers units were actually higher than the Marriott Grand Chateau directly behind Polo Towers, and yet the rooms weren't nearly as nice and the resort amenities pale in comparison to the Marriott resort.

DRI's fee's and not proportionate to the quality of their resorts when compared to other brands of timeshares available.

Here's a couple of photo albums to judge quality differences between resorts in Las Vegas. Consider what I have said that the MF's for each of these resorts is comparable and, we know this because we have owned in each system in Las Vegas.

DRI's Polo Towers: https://dougp26364.smugmug.com/Travel/TImeshare/DRIs-The-Suites-at-Polo-Towers/

Marriott's Grand Chateau (has expanded since this album and added a second pool deck): https://dougp26364.smugmug.com/Travel/TImeshare/Grand-Chateau/

HGVC Las Vegas Strip (Penthouse unit. Standard unit is less plush but, you can see the differences in amenities): https://dougp26364.smugmug.com/Travel/TImeshare/HGVC-Las-Vegas-Strip-Oct-2013/

HGVC Elera: https://dougp26364.smugmug.com/Travel/TImeshare/HVVC-Elera-1-Bedroom/


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## artringwald

RLS50 said:


> This is true.   However, my main problem with DRI, at least so far, is that I am still looking for the actual value they provide in return for such high fees.   So far in my own (limited) experience with DRI, they appear to want to charge annual maintenance fees at the same level of Marriott or Westin properties, but they don't seem to provide anywhere near the same excellent service, well trained staff, or the resort quality that Marriott and Westin does.
> 
> I would really like to know from existing DRI customers that say they are so happy with DRI, but are in effect paying $1400 or more per year to stay 1 week at a DRI property, where I can find a DRI property in the US to stay at that is as nice as one of the US based Marriott's or Westin's?


We like DRI, even though we pay over $1700/year for a 2 bedroom at the Point at Poipu. The expenses on the annual HOA statement seem reasonable, except the increasing amounts paid to DRI for management fees are alarming. However, the rooms may not be as deluxe as a Marriott or Westin, but they're large, all well over 1200 sq ft. The pool is great for kids and even has 2 swimming lanes for adults. The staff is exceptionally friendly and helpful. The property doesn't have a beach, but we love sitting on the lanai watching the waves crash on the rocks. We can see whales, sea turtles, and monk seals from our room. If we could afford it, we'd live there 6 months of the year. We also have enjoyed many stays at Kaanapali Beach Club, using points. DW and her sister often stay at Greensprings Vacation Resort in Williamsburg.


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## dougp26364

RLS50 said:


> I would really like to know from existing DRI customers that say they are so happy with DRI, but are in effect paying $1400 or more per year to stay 1 week at a DRI property, where I can find a DRI property in the US to stay at that is as nice as one of the US based Marriott's or Westin's?



You won't. We've stayed in the Westin property in Scottsdale, we've owned Marriott since 2001 and we've owned in the HGVC system since 2003. There is NO comparison to DRI. They fall flat every time. I've provided a few photo albums with direct comparison in the Las Vegas market. I can provide multiple photo albums of Marriott, Hilton and DRI properties we've stayed in, including markets like Williamsburg and Branson where they compete head to head. IMHO you will always pay Marriott prices while getting inferior quality. Don't get me wrong, they are nice resorts in good destinations. They're just not THAT nice to charge the fee's they charge.

DRI has one big advantage over Marriott or Hilton for our travel needs. That being they have nearly every resort in Sedona under their belt. Since leaving DRI we now find ourselves having to either trade down from our Marriott resort into one of their resorts or hold out for an equivalent exchange into the Hyatt, which is what we will do in the future when we are ready to go back to Sedona.


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## dougp26364

artringwald said:


> We like DRI, even though we pay over $1700/year for a 2 bedroom at the Point at Poipu. The expenses on the annual HOA statement seem reasonable, except the increasing amounts paid to DRI for management fees are alarming. However, the rooms may not be as deluxe as a Marriott or Westin, but they're large, all well over 1200 sq ft. The pool is great for kids and even has 2 swimming lanes for adults. The staff is exceptionally friendly and helpful. The property doesn't have a beach, but we love sitting on the lanai watching the waves crash on the rocks. We can see whales, sea turtles, and monk seals from our room. If we could afford it, we'd live there 6 months of the year. We also have enjoyed many stays at Kaanapali Beach Club, using points. DW and her sister often stay at Greensprings Vacation Resort in Williamsburg.



But, if you're comparing DRI to Marriott, Hilton or Westin both the Point and Ka'anapali fall short of the Marriott's on the same Islands. In fact we walked down from Marriott's Waiokola Beach Club to DRI's the Point and it was obvious which resort was the nicer of the two. Ka'anapli is a very nice resort but, still lacking when compared to the Marriott, which is within walking distance IF you're up for something of a considerable hike down the beach.

They are nice resorts (we've stayed at Ka'anapli twice) but, they're not in the same class as Marriott and they charge similar MF's as Marriott. I guess one advantage would be that both the Point and Ka'anapali would be cheaper and easier to find the resale market.


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## muzikman429

All interesting feedback but I think I will do a little more research. I definitely like the best bang for my buck and obviously DRI may not be it. Hmmmm I will go back and look at the Marriott Grande Vistana on eBay one more time, but IMHO this one may be the way to go do to the flexibility of the float. I am on the school schedule with my kids and April is their Spring Break and that floating weeks 1-17 is huge. I'm also looking for one at the Holiday Inn West Village


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## pedro47

DRI in my opinion needs to purchase quality furniture and appliances liked Marriott. They would  then be awesome.


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## muzikman429

pedro47 said:


> DRI in my opinion needs to purchase quality furniture and appliances liked Marriott. They would  then be awesome.


I would have to agree. Especially for the MFs they charge. That's why I'm not in a rush to get this one. Even though that float week is what I'm looking for I can still find a MVC or another resort that is comparable and better quality or better yet a resort that has the same quality furniture as DRI but MFs way less. That is what I'm looking for


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## dougp26364

One other point I'd like to make about DRI MF's. While they compare in the total bill to the major brands, they put very little of that fee into cash reserve accounts. Our Polo Towers MF's had around $115 per 2 bedroom unit going into the cash reserve where as HGVC cash reserve fee for a 2 bedroom unit is $183 and MVC Grand Chateau bills $302 for their 2 bedroom cash reserve.

So DRI has comparable MF's but, they're not putting comparable amounts into the cash reserve funding, which leads to more frequent and larger special assessments at DRI resorts. Polo Towers had a couple of SA's while we were owners. One was a major expense used to update the unit interiors of towers 1 & 2. One was smaller, less than $200, because they had an outbreak of legionnaires disease and needed to update their water system. Part of that was also used to update their security system.


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## eggmansr71

I wonder what the opinion of DRI is for people that own points vs weeks.  I think DRI want's all the week owners to move to points so you will constantly feel pressure to do so if that is what you own.  I compared Branson rooms and DRI deluxe rooms are nicer than Marriott and their standard rooms are not better.  Between the two systems the fact that DRI enforces the no rental part means my selection in their inventory will always be better than Marriott.  I won't be buying into Marriott as they can't guarantee that I will get into X property when I want to but I can do that by just renting the room for what the MF are on Redbook or ebay.  So there is little reason to own one.  At least that is how I see it at the moment.


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## artringwald

eggmansr71 said:


> I wonder what the opinion of DRI is for people that own points vs weeks.  I think DRI want's all the week owners to move to points so you will constantly feel pressure to do so if that is what you own.  I compared Branson rooms and DRI deluxe rooms are nicer than Marriott and their standard rooms are not better.  Between the two systems the fact that DRI enforces the no rental part means my selection in their inventory will always be better than Marriott.  I won't be buying into Marriott as they can't guarantee that I will get into X property when I want to but I can do that by just renting the room for what the MF are on Redbook or ebay.  So there is little reason to own one.  At least that is how I see it at the moment.


I own deeded float/float weeks at DRI's Point at Poipu resort. I never had trouble booking ocean front units with those weeks. If I bought enough points in the Hawaii Collection to book an ocean front unit for a week, the annual fees on the points would be about 50% higher than the MF I pay for each week. Points certainly are convenient, but I would never buy points in a collection. I have never been pressured to convert my deeded weeks to points, but of course I've never attended an "owner's update", i.e. sales pitch to get you to convert and buy more points.


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## dougp26364

eggmansr71 said:


> I wonder what the opinion of DRI is for people that own points vs weeks.  I think DRI want's all the week owners to move to points so you will constantly feel pressure to do so if that is what you own.  I compared Branson rooms and DRI deluxe rooms are nicer than Marriott and their standard rooms are not better.  Between the two systems the fact that DRI enforces the no rental part means my selection in their inventory will always be better than Marriott.  I won't be buying into Marriott as they can't guarantee that I will get into X property when I want to but I can do that by just renting the room for what the MF are on Redbook or ebay.  So there is little reason to own one.  At least that is how I see it at the moment.



As to Branson, we've stayed in all three rooms. It's not a great comparison in that the Marriott in Branson was a conceptual project called Horizon's that failed. MVC is in the process of upgrading that particular resort to more MVC like standards. There are only 3 buildings on site and probably will never be another one built. There was an Orlando resort built under the Horizon's brand and a Gatlinburg resort was planned but never built. All were purposely built as a less expensive, family friendly budget version of MVC.

On the other hand, The Suite's at Fall Creek was originally built in true, budget Sunterra fashion (Sunterra the original developer at the time) with the Deluxe units an after thought and comprising all of one building. Like the MVC property, the Suite's was never fully developed with several plots for buildings left weed covered.

As to the thought about DRI pressuring weeks owners into trust points, of course they do. Every single developer I've seen has been consistent in offering "owner updates" with the latest/greatest angle to keep selling more inventory to existing owners. Most use some sort of scare tactic involving the idea the owners current status makes what they own obsolete and eventually useless compared to the new/improved system.

DRI's great advantage over all others is the shear number of locations under their brand. It's unfortunate that they charge a kings ransom in fee's for the general quality they provide. If their fee's were more in line with their quality, they'd easily be one of the most popular timeshare management companies in America.


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## pedro47

dougp26364 said:


> As to Branson, we've stayed in all three rooms. It's not a great comparison in that the Marriott in Branson was a conceptual project called Horizon's that failed. MVC is in the process of upgrading that particular resort to more MVC like standards. There are only 3 buildings on site and probably will never be another one built. There was an Orlando resort built under the Horizon's brand and a Gatlinburg resort was planned but never built. All were purposely built as a less expensive, family friendly budget version of MVC.
> 
> On the hand, The Suite's at Fall Creek was originally built in true, budget Sunterra fashion (Sunterra the original developer at the time) with the Deluxe units an after thought and comprising all of one building. Like the MVC property, the Suite's was never fully developed with several plots for buildings left weed covered.
> 
> As to the thought about DRI pressuring weeks owners into trust points, of course they do. Every single developer I've seen has been consistent in offering "owner updates" with the latest/greatest angle to keep selling more inventory to existing owners. Most use employee some sort of scare tactic involving the idea the owners current status makes what they own obsolete and eventually useless compared to the new/improved system.
> 
> DRI's great advantage over all others is the shear number of locations under their brand. It's unfortunate that they charge a kings ransom in fee's for the general quality they provide. If their fee's were more in line with their quality, they'd easily be one of the most popular timeshare management companies in America.



Doug26364, your observation and words are right on point about DRI. Thanks you.


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## bradfordHI

artringwald said:


> I own deeded float/float weeks at DRI's Point at Poipu resort. I never had trouble booking ocean front units with those weeks. If I bought enough points in the Hawaii Collection to book an ocean front unit for a week, the annual fees on the points would be about 50% higher than the MF I pay for each week. Points certainly are convenient, but I would never buy points in a collection. I have never been pressured to convert my deeded weeks to points, but of course I've never attended an "owner's update", i.e. sales pitch to get you to convert and buy more points.




Ask to Meet with a senior person. No one  knows this but a "floating week doesn't exist". You own a fixed week tied to a unit. The club allows you to float. 
Ask for a seasoned person to explain it to you. 
I own both. Points and weeks. Points work better for me but I understand the pro v cons. 
Fixed weeks are from the 70s it's why they are worthless. Once Westin started enforcing Friday check ins IT changed everything. 
Best of luck.


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## dougp26364

bradfordHI said:


> Ask to Meet with a senior person. No one  knows this but a "floating week doesn't exist". You own a fixed week tied to a unit. The club allows you to float.
> Ask for a seasoned person to explain it to you.
> I own both. Points and weeks. Points work better for me but I understand the pro v cons.
> Fixed weeks are from the 70s it's why they are worthless. Once Westin started enforcing Friday check ins IT changed everything.
> Best of luck.



This is not entirely true. While "classic" floating weeks are tied to a deeded unit and deeded week, that was used for deeding purposes only and, in the documents, spells out that the owner does not have the right to occupy that exact unit on that exact week. So while the deed might specify a particular unit/week, it's only for inventory purposes to assure they are not overselling a resorts occupancy.

We owned a floating week with DRI that was NOT originally in THE Club. We also owned a fixed week/fixed unit that allowed us to use week 36 in unit 1804 annually. The fixed week would only float if we joined THE Club, the other week always was allowed to float.

Most of the weeks we currently own are floating weeks. After our original purchase we discovered life changes and vacationing on a particular week every year didn't work out so well for us. While every week we own is attached to a specific unit and week for deeding purposes, our contracts specify it's for deeding purposes only with no right to occupy thaqt exact unit on that exact week. They all float during a designated season.

So on one hand you are correct, weeks had been deeded to a particular unit and a particular week but, on the other hand you are not correct, there is such a thing as a floating week in the DRI system.


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## artringwald

We've bought 2 float/float through resale. They are not part of the Club and when booking a year in advance, we've been able to get ocean front units every time. You can still buy float/float resale for under $5000/week.


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## gypsygirl1

artringwald said:


> We've bought 2 float/float through resale. They are not part of the Club and when booking a year in advance, we've been able to get ocean front units every time. You can still buy float/float resale for under $5000/week.





bdurstta said:


> I am curious...what are the maintenance fees for Diamond Resorts?  I believe they are points based?


DRI took over my Grand Monarch Vacations about 2 1/2 years ago.  My timeshares are point based (443) and there are 9 resorts in my group to pick from over 2 years.  My maintenance fee have sky rocketed to about $2500 per year!  I have paid and additional fee of $40 (I think) to add to my options for travel through DRI. My points will give me about 2 1/2 - 3 weeks over two years depending on how I use them and where I stay.


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## RLS50

After doing some extensive reading over recent months from past and current DRI owners, and numerous before and after accounts about what happens after DRI takes over a resort, I am only left with the conclusion that DRI rapidly escalates maintenance fees for 2 primary reasons when they take over a legacy resort.  (1.) Obviously to drive their corporate profits, since the majority of those increases don't appear to get re-invested in the resort or benefit owners.  (2.)  I believe it is possible they also may be doing it to support their sales goals of converting legacy owners to points?  Reading or listening to the stories out of Virginia Beach reported by a number of owners is that the DRI sales people seem to be warning former Gold Key owners that they better pay tens of thousands to convert to points because maintenance fees are going to skyrocket under DRI and they are now doomed, as if somehow converting to points is the only way to save themselves from the inevitable.   Each year MF's do indeed rise at the absurd rate of 10% the more the herd gets startled and scattered, and possibly you do end up scaring more people into points.

It all seems so Machiavellian.


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## dougp26364

Part of the rapidly escalating fee's are the cost of converting newly acquired resorts to DRI standards. That often includes replacing all the beds, linens, towels, upgrading kitchens and kitchen appliances et..... All to make the resorts conform to DRI standards. That takes a lot of money and that money comes from owners pockets, not DRI's.

But, DRI also has some very expensive management fee's, so your point about increasing revenue for DRI is valid. And new resort systems do bring new blood to the round table for sales conversion opportunities. DRI does a much better job of churning sales from existing owners than it does finding new owners off the streets.


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## RLS50

Doug,

No real disagreement as to their general approach...or at least their public justification of why they claim they have to rapidly increase MF costs.  I know there was some truth to that when they took over resorts or systems in distress that had been neglected for years.

But in this case the resort already had millions in reserves, and the reserve amount of MF is still approx 14%, even after back to back 10% annual MF increases.  That is the same approx reserves rate that the original developer used.

So far it is not clear how the increased costs have represented any actual tangible benefit to owners, or even non-owners.  In fact services have been decreased, additional fees have increased, and unfortunately there has been significant turnover of key resort personnel over the last 12 months.


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## dougp26364

RLS50 said:


> Doug,
> 
> No real disagreement as to their general approach...or at least their public justification of why they claim they have to rapidly increase MF costs.  I know there was some truth to that when they took over resorts or systems in distress that had been neglected for years.
> 
> But in this case the resort already had millions in reserves, and the reserve amount of MF is still approx 14%, even after back to back 10% annual MF increases.  That is the same approx reserves rate that the original developer used.
> 
> So far it is not clear how the increased costs have represented any actual tangible benefit to owners, or even non-owners.  In fact services have been decreased, additional fees have increased, and unfortunately there has been significant turnover of key resort personnel over the last 12 months.



You've perfectly stated why we're no longer DRI owner/members. While it seems nearly all timeshare management companies play a financial shell game with owners money, DRI really does a number (no pun intended) on the owner/members pocketbook. I was never able to reconcile their charges against what they were providing. It was painfully apparent when comparing our 2 weeks ownership at Polo Towers against the financial statements provided by Marriott and Hilton for our ownerships in Las Vegas, with Marriott being directly behind/adjacent to Polo Towers. DRI's numbers just never did add up IMHO and, I'm convinced there was more than a little padding of the expenses going on. There was ABSOLUTELY no way Polo Towers, with the amenities it provided and the "quality" of their furnishings justified the $$ spent in comparison to MVC and HGVC.

When DRI bought out Sunterra, there was a lot of neglected maintenance that needed funding. However, it's entirely possible that DRI has learned from that experience and has decided to carry on the tradition of "upgrading" resorts, even when they don't require upgrading to DRI standards. Of course, not being an owner at many of these resorts, I have no factual basis on which to stand, only speculation.

Still, the comparison of DRI's expenses to MVC and HGVC expenses were very easy for me to hold up against one another as I was an owner at all three in Las Vegas. DRI was by fat the more expensive in ratio to quality and, again IMHO, there was little to no basis for their numbers. Thus, we got.

Granted one could make arguments against MVC and the cozy relationship that appears to exist between MVC and those they contract to provide goods/services. MVC has their preferred contractors and that's that as far as owners get a say in the matter.


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## RLS50

Doug,

I'm having the same problem.  Just one example, under the legacy developer Housekeeping was a simple line item expense at about $1.4M.   This was pretty consistent year over year.

The DRI budget now lists a 2017 charge of $1.3M for Housekeeping under Payroll and Related and an additional $1.4M charge for Housekeeping under the Operating Expenses portion of the budget.  That amounts to almost double the simple line item charge related to Housekeeping that appeared under the Gold Key annual budgets?  How can that be possible when DRI has actually eliminated daily Housekeeping at the resort and the resort was short staffed in that area for parts of 2016?

The same is true for expenses related to Porters/Front Desk, a charge that appears to have almost tripled under the new budget as listed.

This is in ADDITION to the huge fees for Management and Corporate overhead.

What am I missing?


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## dougp26364

RLS50 said:


> Doug,
> 
> I'm having the same problem.  Just one example, under the legacy developer Housekeeping was a simple line item expense at about $1.4M.   This was pretty consistent year over year.
> 
> The DRI budget now lists a 2017 charge of $1.3M for Housekeeping under Payroll and Related and an additional $1.4M charge for Housekeeping under the Operating Expenses portion of the budget.  That amounts to almost double the simple line item charge related to Housekeeping that appeared under the Gold Key annual budgets?  How can that be possible when DRI has actually eliminated daily Housekeeping at the resort and the resort was short staffed in that area for parts of 2016?
> 
> The same is true for expenses related to Porters/Front Desk, a charge that appears to have almost tripled under the new budget as listed.
> 
> This is in ADDITION to the huge fees for Management and Corporate overhead.
> 
> What am I missing?



I don't think your missing a thing.


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## youppi

DRI payed $167.5 millions to acquire Gold Key. So, they want to recover their money quickly to be able to acquire another brand. So, they increase MF and push hard to convert week owners to points.
DRI payed $85 millions to acquire Club Intrawest, an almost sold out club. How do you think they will recover their money ? by digging in DRI members pockets.
Before that, DRI acquired Star Island, Aegean Blue, Pacific Monarch, Tempus, ILX and Sunterra. DRI spent a lot of money in acquisition and DRI members most pay for that.


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## RLS50

youppi said:


> DRI payed $167.5 millions to acquire Gold Key. So, they want to recover their money quickly to be able to acquire another brand. So, they increase MF and push hard to convert week owners to points.
> DRI payed $85 millions to acquire Club Intrawest, an almost sold out club. How do you think they will recover their money ? by digging in DRI members pockets.
> Before that, DRI acquired Star Island, Aegean Blue, Pacific Monarch, Tempus, ILX and Sunterra. DRI spent a lot of money in acquisition and DRI members most pay for that.


I agree.   But what I am talking about goes beyond that.   There is no way they are spending almost $3M on Housekeeping related expenses (double the Gold Key rate) when they have actually reduced housekeeping services.    It makes no sense.

That is why I actually hope I am missing something.  It is one thing to pad the budget a bit, it is another to have line item expenses that have no basis in reality.  It would undermine the credibility of the entire budget.


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## youppi

RLS50 said:


> I agree.   But what I am talking about goes beyond that.   There is no way they are spending almost $3M on Housekeeping related expenses (double the Gold Key rate) when they have actually reduced housekeeping services.    It makes no sense.
> 
> That is why I actually hope I am missing something.  It is one thing to pad the budget a bit, it is another to have line item expenses that have no basis in reality.  It would undermine the credibility of the entire budget.


I think that the problem is because the management fee is a percentage of the expense budget and not a flat fee that you see things ike that in the expense budget.
If DRI increase the expense budget by $1M at each resort and the management fee is 15% then they get $150,000 more per resort than if they didn't dope the expense budget. At the end of the year, you will have a surplus of $1M that you will be able to apply to the next year MF but you will never recover the 15% on that. 15% of $1M is $150,000 multiply by 100 resorts = $15M more in DRI pockets per year. by doping the expense budget

If I remember, surplus use from previous year are applied in the incoming column of the current year and not in the expense column as a negative value. So, the surplus will be subtract after the management fee applied on the expense budget to get the Maintenance Fee to pay.


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## RLS50

youppi said:


> I think that the problem is because the management fee is a percentage of the expense budget and not a flat fee that you see things ike that in the expense budget.
> If DRI increase the expense budget by $1M at each resort and the management fee is 15% then they get $150,000 more per resort than if they didn't dope the expense budget. At the end of the year, you will have a surplus of $1M that you will be able to apply to the next year MF but you will never recover the 15% on that. 15% of $1M is $150,000 multiply by 100 resorts = $15M more in DRI pockets per year. by doping the expense budget
> 
> If I remember, surplus use from previous year are applied in the incoming column of the current year and not in the expense column as a negative value. So, the surplus will be subtract after the management fee applied on the expense budget to get the Maintenance Fee to pay.


Yes, I am familiar with the ex-CEO's comments to analysts where he seemed almost proud that annual budget increases with their 15% fee was almost pure profit for them.

But assuming the scenario you lay out above was true for argument's sake, would it not be a violation of fiduciary responsibilities for any management company to intentionally and willfully pad a budget with wildly excessive and inaccurate line item expenses all in an effort generate additional profits (without corresponding transparency to owners)?


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## youppi

RLS50 said:


> Yes, I am familiar with the ex-CEO's comments to analysts where he seemed almost proud that annual budget increases with their 15% fee was almost pure profit for them.
> 
> But assuming the scenario you lay out above was true for argument's sake, would it not be a violation of fiduciary responsibilities for any management company to intentionally and willfully pad a budget with wildly excessive and inaccurate line item expenses all in an effort generate additional profits (without corresponding transparency to owners)?


May be but it is a budget so they have the right to make mistakes. It can be at their disadvantage too if they under estimate the budget. This is from the 2016 annual meeting of the HI Collection where Management fee is 15% of the Budget sum of Maintenance Fees and General & Administrative Fees. 




I found something interesting today. We know that when DRI acquired Sunterra, they increased a lot the MF of HI and US Collections, the first 3 years after the acquisition but I never understand why in 2014 their was a big increase too. DRI completed their IPO in July 2013. So, 2014 was the first year of DRI as a public company. Is it a coincidence or not ?
This is the MF at both Collection for 15,000 points (Silver level):


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## nuwermj

youppi said:


> We know that when DRI acquired Sunterra, they increased a lot the MF of HI and US Collections, the first 3 years after the acquisition but I never understand why in 2014 their was a big increase too. DRI completed their IPO in July 2013. So, 2014 was the first year of DRI as a public company. Is it a coincidence or not ?



Direct and indirect fees payed to The Club seem to be an increasingly important revenue stream for DRI. Especially since the IPO. This is from the 2014 cover letter (US Collection) to members. As your data show, the change was not zero sum. 

"Enclosed you will find your 2014 annual assessment statement, along with a copy of the Association’s 2014 budget and Assessment Billing and Collection Policy. We have included a new expense line item in the 2014 budget to cover the cost of reservations and customer service. Previously this cost was included in THE Club annual dues; however, it has been determined that this is actually an expense directly related to our Association and not THE Club. We have more than 70,000 members of our Association and it is appropriate that our Association bear the cost of facilitating reservations and other communication expenses for our members. By increasing our Association budget to include these costs, THE Club is actually able to reduce its annual dues to our members.

"Your Base Standard Assessment for 2014 will be $215, and the fee per point for your Point Standard Assessment is 14.10 cents, but THE Club dues have been reduced from $299 to $204. To give you an example of the total impact on your fees, the aggregate 2014 fee combining the U.S. Collection fee and THE Club dues equates to a 0.59% increase in the total assessment for a member who owns 5,000 points, 5.68% for a member who owns 10,000 points, 8.10% for a member who owns 15,000 points and 9.52% for a member who owns 20,000 points. In previous years, THE Club dues included these services; however, since these services actually support the operation of the U.S. Collection, separate from operating THE Club, these fees have been attributed to the per point fee accordingly."


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## Barb Smith

artringwald said:


> DRI has a variety of ownerships. They can be fixed weeks, floating weeks, deeded weeks in their point system, or just points. The points have higher more flexibility, but also have higher fees because of the overhead.


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## Barb Smith

We just went to a high pressure meeting with Diamond International and bought a time share of 7,500 points per year for $28,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1,675 per year (which could go up).  We have never had a timeshare before and are now questioning our decision.  Are they legit?  Should we cancel?  Somebody please offer advice!


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## taffy19

Barb Smith said:


> We just went to a high pressure meeting with Diamond International and bought a time share of 7,500 points per year for $28,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1,675 per year (which could go up).  We have never had a timeshare before and are now questioning our decision.  Are they legit?  Should we cancel?  Somebody please offer advice!


If you are not sure what you bought or are having any doubts, rescind now and do not waste time.  Follow the directions exactly that are in your package of papers that you signed and your contract will be rescinded plus you'll get all your money back guaranteed.  This is the law.

PS.  You only have a few days to do this in so do not procrastinate.

I am not sure if this is the company that hides the important piece of paper where you can sign the rescission letter document.  One company used to hide it in the the binder that has a zipper but it is included in the package so they are legal.  I will try to find the thread about it or other people can tell you this too.

Also, keep copies of everything yourself.

PPS.  It was a different company by the name of Westgate (post #5) so disregard.  Amazing what some companies will do to confuse timeshare buyers who have never heard of timeshares before and no wonder that this industry has such a bad name!


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## artringwald

Barb Smith said:


> We just went to a high pressure meeting with Diamond International and bought a time share of 7,500 points per year for $28,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1,675 per year (which could go up).  We have never had a timeshare before and are now questioning our decision.  Are they legit?  Should we cancel?  Somebody please offer advice!


Yes, the company is legit. Is it a good deal? I'll tell you our story and you can formulate your own answer. We found a Diamond resort we liked and bought a deeded week there for $1500. The annual maintenance fees are $1752/year. We can book oceanfront at that resort without any problem if week book a year in advance. To book an oceanfront week at the same resort would cost 15,500 points. Yes, points give you flexibility, but we can also put our deeded week into an exchange company (RCI or Interval International) any go to any resort in their system (they have many). My advice: look through your paper work for rescinding instructions, follow them very carefully, do not call DRI, and do not answer their calls. They'll just say whatever they can to talk you out of it.


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## clifffaith

We owned DRI US Collection and Hawaii.  WE PAID THEM $500 to take back the two US Contracts last July. My advice to anyone contemplating a timeshare purchase is to buy almost anything else besides Diamond. If you happen to live on the west coast, Worldmark is awesome!


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## Barb Smith

So is this a sound investment?  Or are my annual fees going to go up excessively to where it's a loosing pros position?  I truly don't know anything about time shares. Are they scams?


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## artringwald

Barb Smith said:


> So is this a sound investment?  Or are my annual fees going to go up excessively to where it's a loosing pros position?  I truly don't know anything about time shares. Are they scams?


They aren't scams, but the purchase price from the developer is extremely overpriced for the value.


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## clifffaith

Barb Smith said:


> So is this a sound investment?  Or are my annual fees going to go up excessively to where it's a loosing pros position?  I truly don't know anything about time shares. Are they scams?



I think the general consensus is that Diamond's maint. fees tend to be higher. Our timeshares "made us go" -- we have our own business and rarely took time off for vacation until buying our first timeshare in 2002.  From that standpoint it was a good decision to buy.  However we have never bought resale (having only discovered TUG about a year ago), so I groan thinking of the tens of thousands of dollars we spent buying from the developers.  My advice is to rescind the contract NOW if you are still in the rescission period (usually 5-10 days depending on where purchased). Then spend lots of time on TUG learning first about various timeshare systems, then second about buying resale. Believe me Diamond will happily take your money in a few months if you decide you want to go with them.


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## Egret1986

Barb Smith said:


> We just went to a high pressure meeting with Diamond International and bought a time share of 7,500 points per year for $28,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1,675 per year (which could go up).  We have never had a timeshare before and are now questioning our decision.  Are they legit?  Should we cancel?  Somebody please offer advice!



You were blessed to find TUG and have the opportunity to rescind!  You did not get a good deal.  Like what has previously been mentioned, DRI timeshare owners are paying to give their timeshares back just to be out from under these ever increasing fees.  Timeshares should never be considered an investment (financial).  Sound?  Noooooooooo, it's not a sound investment.  Get your $28,000 back before it's too late and learn about timeshare ownership before proceeding once again into the unknown.  "....which could go up."  There is no double they WILL go up.  DRI is legit.  CANCEL!  You're not going to get any other advice on this purchase.  RESCIND while you still have the opportunity.

Welcome to TUG!!!!  Today's your lucky day.  You found TUG before it was too late.  ACT NOW!


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## TUGBrian

Barb Smith said:


> We just went to a high pressure meeting with Diamond International and bought a time share of 7,500 points per year for $28,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1,675 per year (which could go up).  We have never had a timeshare before and are now questioning our decision.  Are they legit?  Should we cancel?  Somebody please offer advice!



holy smokes, you are quite lucky (assuming you are still within your rescission period)...you just paid $28,000 bucks for something you could likely pick up on the resale market from an existing owner for literally $1.

so congrats, you just saved $28grand!


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## geist1223

While the cost of acquiring from DRI is high there are some benefits. The primary reason is the ability to Book directly outside your Collection without having to work a trade thru RCI, II, etc. However the way to work it is to buy let's say 10,000 DRI Points on the Secondary Market. Then you buy 5,000 Points from DRI in the same Collection. As part of that purchase from DRI you negotiate for your 10,000 resell Points to be brought into your account as if they had been bought from DRI.


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## Queen50

gypsygirl1 said:


> Oh ya!!!  Big maintenance fees with them and the costs go up every year!


I agree! The cost of maintenance for Diamond is ridiculous!! We pay and can never get into the resorts we want. I live in California. want to travel just a few hrs. to a beach resort and honestly have only been able to reserve it once!!! And that was in the winter. Stay away from Diamond resorts.


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