# RCI Letter re Upcoming Manhattan Club visit



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 14, 2006)

I received a letter from RCI today about our upcoming Manhattan Club Points exchange.

The first few paragraphs were very effusive about all the benefits of staying at the Manhattan Club. The letter then informs us of the mandatory Hospitality Fee that will be collected by the resort at check-in. "Guests may pay by credit card and will be charged US$25 per unit, per night for one-bedroom accommodations and US$15 per unit, per night for studio accommodations.  ... If you choose to cancel your upcoming Exchange to The Manhattan Club, you may submit another request for alternate accommodations and no additional exchange fee will be required."

So although my wife and I don't like the surprise additional mandatory fee we will now be incurring, we won't be cancelling our exchange.  It is a nice gesture for RCI to offer alternate accommodations at no additional exchange fee.

Richard


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## JoyC (Mar 14, 2006)

*Effective date (check-in)?*

MULTIZ321,

What is your check-in date? I have one for 3/17/06, have not receive a letter.  thanks

Joyc


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## Carolinian (Mar 14, 2006)

What would be nice would be if RCI would put their foot down on this ripoff by their affiliate.  And those alternative accomodations would certainly not be in New York City.  What do you think RCI would then do with any cancelled Manhattan Club weeks?  Give them to other exchangers or rent them for more profit to RCI?  And would those renters also have to pay this ripoff fee?

The best way to deal with ripoff fees is to slam them hard on the RCI report card.  Give them ''1's'' and tell them why!


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 14, 2006)

I think that RCI has set a good policy on this issue.  It's the Manhattan Club that set the rule, not RCI.  And, RCI is doing right by it's members by allowing them to cancel and exchange elsewhere.


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## Avery (Mar 14, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> I think that RCI has set a good policy on this issue.  It's the Manhattan Club that set the rule, not RCI.  And, RCI is doing right by it's members by allowing them to cancel and exchange elsewhere.



I must disagree. I think a "good policy" would have been for RCI to refuse to allow this year's exchangers to be charged the fee if they confirmed prior to it being instituted. An offer for "alternate accommodations" is empty, particularly at such a late date. I bet if RCI didn't have so much vested in rental income from the MC, it would have taken a stronger stance against these fees. What if discouraging exchanges works to RCI's benefit in this regard???


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## MULTIZ321 (Mar 14, 2006)

Joy,

I think the effective date of this new mandatory fee policy is either the end of March of the beginning of April.  Our stay is April 21-28.

You didn't get a letter because your check in is prior to the new fees being instituted.


Richard


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## Fern Modena (Mar 14, 2006)

I detest the idea of additional *mandatory* junk fees.  Things that should be covered by the owner's maintenence (ie, not "all inclusives" which include food, although I don't like them either).  

I don't like the idea that RCI and II allow their affiliates to charge these fees.  But that's not my issue here...

I don't think it is fair to us, the exchangers, to apply the fee retroactively to people who already hold a confirmation.  That should never, ever be done.  It changes the terms of the exchange.  Many people would not have confirmed, knowing the associated fees.  Telling somebody about the change a few weeks before their vacation, and offering anothe exchange (elsewhere and at another time) just doesn't cut it.  

Fern


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## davesdog (Mar 14, 2006)

*Another slam idea.*



			
				Carolinian said:
			
		

> The best way to deal with ripoff fees is to slam them hard on the RCI report card.  Give them ''1's'' and tell them why!



The heck with the report card.  RCI will just rent then if exchangers don't take them.  I'd slam them in the electric, water bills, and any other expenses I could run up on them.  It wouldn't get my $ back, but the added expenses would show up on their bottom line. I think this catches companies attention the fastest!


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## Avery (Mar 14, 2006)

davesdog said:
			
		

> The heck with the report card.  RCI will just rent then if exchangers don't take them.  I'd slam them in the electric, water bills, and any other expenses I could run up on them.  It wouldn't get my $ back, but the added expenses would show up on their bottom line. I think this catches companies attention the fastest!



Reminds me of the "Friends" episode in which Ross hoards all the soaps/shampoos from the hotel....


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## JohnnyO (Mar 14, 2006)

*This just plain stinks RCI.*

Well said and I agree 1000%.



			
				Fern Modena said:
			
		

> I detest the idea of additional *mandatory* junk fees.  Things that should be covered by the owner's maintenence (ie, not "all inclusives" which include food, although I don't like them either).
> 
> I don't like the idea that RCI and II allow their affiliates to charge these fees.  But that's not my issue here...
> 
> ...


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 14, 2006)

Avery said:
			
		

> I must disagree. I think a "good policy" would have been for RCI to refuse to allow this year's exchangers to be charged the fee if they confirmed prior to it being instituted. An offer for "alternate accommodations" is empty, particularly at such a late date. I bet if RCI didn't have so much vested in rental income from the MC, it would have taken a stronger stance against these fees. What if discouraging exchanges works to RCI's benefit in this regard???



And the Manhattan Club would say, "fine RCI, you pay for the fees then because we are charging them."

The Manhattan Club is a customer of RCI's.  You don't go to your customer and dictate terms.  They'll just go somewhere else.

The only thing that is in RCI's control is the exchange fee.  So, offering that deal is fair compromise.

Now, I can understand that that offer may not make exchangers happy.  But, RCI is offering something that is in their control.

No company would offer to pay those fees on behalf of the Manhattan Club.

Your anger is directed at the wrong company.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 14, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> And the Manhattan Club would say, "fine RCI, you pay for the fees then because we are charging them."
> 
> The Manhattan Club is a customer of RCI's.  You don't go to your customer and dictate terms.  They'll just go somewhere else.


I agree that is probably how it would play out.

The reality is that RCI needs the Manhattan Club more than Manhattan Club needs RCI.  That means that RCI has little leverage with MC.


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## Carolinian (Mar 14, 2006)

If enough exchangers gave them ''1's'' on their report card, MC could be bounced down to a standard resort, which could impact sales.  This is the way to make them feel the heat.

When this approach was discussed on TUG on a past occaision, one Tugger posted that her resort on Sint Maarten had eliminated fees that were leading to lower VEP scores.  This approach can work if enough people do it.

For those who have confirmed registrations, challenge it with your credit card company and show them your RCI confirmation.

People also should complain to the state of New York AG's consumer protection division, and NYC may have a similar agency.  Let these scam artists at MC feel some heat.

Exchange companies should set standards of what must be covered by the depositor and cannot be charged to the exchanger, and then enforce those standards.


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## CaliDave (Mar 14, 2006)

I completely agree with Fern

What is a family of 4 with airfare going to do now?

Its one thing if MC wants to charge for "extras", but not a madatory charge. 
If I want more housekeeping, or use of the gym and business center. I don't mind paying.. but tell me upfront and let me decide.

I can almost guarantee you that owners are not paying this fee.


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## timeos2 (Mar 14, 2006)

*It is the Manhattan Club not RCI*

I feel RCI should have made a strong case with the MC that they can't retroactively add a fee to confirmed reservations. Maybe they did and MH thumbed their nose at them, who knows. Now we're stuck with the fees so, as already stated, let every RCI comment card from now on have nothing higher than a 3 - and of course to really hurt do "1's" - and on each comment line say why.  It doesn't even have to apply to the area you are ranking - make them feel it in the RCI score results. If they drop to unranked and don't care so be it but I'll bet they will get the message real fast.  If it were $25/week and they were supplying high speed Internet and other upgrades to the units maybe. But $25/day for what was no charge until 3/31 is completely unfair. Slam them.


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## jackio (Mar 14, 2006)

I, too, believe that RCI should have refused to have already confirmed exchangers be charged the fee.  My exchange is for April 8th - hardly enough time to secure an alternate vacation, since the week I used expires on April 30th.


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## tmartin1 (Mar 14, 2006)

Well, I have an upcoming exchange at MC in April and I expect to get my letter from RCI this week.

A couple of months ago, I received a letter from RCI telling me that my 1 bedroom exchange is actually a studio. Now this.

I can tell you one thing - any thoughts I had of buying an MC TS went out the window with all these bait-n-switch tactics. My 1 bedroom exchange is now a studio exchange for an extra $105 ($254 total).

I don't blame RCI in this situation; the blame goes completely to the Manhattan Club.

Thanks to everyone for starting this discussion and giving your suggestions.

I will definitely:

1. Give the MC the lowest ratings in all categories.
2. Use lots and lots of electricity and hot water.
3. Dispute the charge on my credit card bill (worst case scenario - it'll take at least a few months for them to get their money back since the credit card company removes the charges until the dispute is over).

Any other suggestions? I'm game!


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't understand how anyone can blame RCI for this issue.  RCI doesn't charge the fee.  MC does.

Let's say that RCI were going to threaten MC.  What leverage do they have?  What can they take away from them?


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 14, 2006)

jackio said:
			
		

> I, too, believe that RCI should have refused to have already confirmed exchangers be charged the fee.  My exchange is for April 8th - hardly enough time to secure an alternate vacation, since the week I used expires on April 30th.



You are being completely unrealistic.  The only thing RCI could do is threaten to expel them from the exchange company.  That's highly unlikely.  They would rather tick you off than the Manhattan Club.

The other thing they could do is simply cancel your confirmation.  If they did that, then I would agree that RCI would be doing the wrong thing and you would have a legitimate gripe.

RCI does a lot of things wrong.  In this case, many on this thread are simply shooting the messenger.


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## CaliDave (Mar 14, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> You are being completely unrealistic.  The only thing RCI could do is threaten to expel them from the exchange company.  That's highly unlikely.  They would rather tick you off than the Manhattan Club.
> 
> The other thing they could do is simply cancel your confirmation.  If they did that, then I would agree that RCI would be doing the wrong thing and you would have a legitimate gripe.
> 
> RCI does a lot of things wrong.  In this case, many on this thread are simply shooting the messenger.



IMO it really doesn't matter who is at fault.. RCI or MC
my deal is with RCI, if they gave me a confirmation without the fee, they are obligated to either pay it themselves or fight MC to waive it. 
Resorts have contracts with RCI. These weeks were given to RCI without the fee imposed on them. I think RCI has legal ground to fight it, for the current confirmations. 
In the construction business, we give owners a price to build thier building. If a month later we have a supplier come back and say "the roof is going to cost you twice as much" I cannot pass that on to my customer. I either need to fight the charge or eat it myself.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 14, 2006)

CaliDave said:
			
		

> IMO it really doesn't matter who is at fault.. RCI or MC
> my deal is with RCI, if they gave me a confirmation without the fee, they are obligated to either pay it themselves or fight MC to waive it.
> Resorts have contracts with RCI. These weeks were given to RCI without the fee imposed on them. I think RCI has legal ground to fight it, for the current confirmations.
> In the construction business, we give owners a price to build thier building. If a month later we have a supplier come back and say "the roof is going to cost you twice as much" I cannot pass that on to my customer. I either need to fight the charge or eat it myself.



I guess you assume that RCI cares more about their relationship with you than they do about their relationship with MC.

Since they clearly care more about MC, they would rather have a couple of customer service supervisors deal with you screaming and foaming at the mouth than the GM of the MC.  Because then, a VP would be the one being screamed at.


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## TravelSFO (Mar 14, 2006)

Please complain to RCI when you have been charged the hospitality fee.  I believe that RCI *CAN* do something about it.  They won't do anything about it if you don't complain.

I complained about surcharges at another exchange recently because RCI did not inform me at the time I confirmed the exchange.  How could they?  The surcharges were brand new policy.  After speaking with a manager, I was credited the full amount of the surcharge to my RCI account.

It is absolutely unreasonable for RCI to tell us that we can cancel our exchange at no penalty if we disagree with this surcharge.  WTF?  We have already booked our plane tickets, made plans with family, booked events.  Unbelievable.

Call RCI from the Manhattan Club and demand a credit or for the hospitality fee.


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## arlene22 (Mar 14, 2006)

Does anyone else find it ironic that that the fee is called "Hospitality Fee?" What kind of hospitality is that??


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## RonaldCol (Mar 17, 2006)

Carolinian said:
			
		

> If enough exchangers gave them ''1's'' on their report card, MC could be bounced down to a standard resort, which could impact sales.  This is the way to make them feel the heat.
> 
> When this approach was discussed on TUG on a past occaision, one Tugger posted that her resort on Sint Maarten had eliminated fees that were leading to lower VEP scores.  This approach can work if enough people do it.
> 
> ...



We just came back from the Manhattan Club. We were there from February 24 to March 3, 2006. We reserved and got in early and avoided the additional daily charges.

BUT I noted all "1's" in RCI's survey of the Manhattan Club we received after our visit. The only place I marked better than 1 was in the weather; that ranked a 2.

The problem with trying to poorly rank and drop the rating of the Manhattan Club is the fact that we're dealing with the ONLY timeshare in the one of the most DESIRABLE locations in New York city, let alone the world. It's not going to stop the crowds. This is the same reason that the only two timeshares in Anaheim, CA, which are essentially converted motels/hotels, are in high demand. People still go there because of it's location.

What's Plan B?


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## jancpa (Mar 17, 2006)

I can't think of a Plan B but I hope this won't become like the infamous $95 Disney fee that is now etched in stone.

You know, if the Manhattan Club has 100 exchangers (of 242 units) in a typical week paying $150 ($105-$175), they would have an extra $15,000.  This works out to be $780,000 per year EXTRA.  Do you think they would expand the business center and put in more computers?


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## TravelSFO (Mar 17, 2006)

jancpa said:
			
		

> I can't think of a Plan B but I hope this won't become like the infamous $95 Disney fee that is now etched in stone.
> 
> You know, if the Manhattan Club has 100 exchangers (of 242 units) in a typical week paying $150 ($105-$175), they would have an extra $15,000.  This works out to be $780,000 per year EXTRA.  Do you think they would expand the business center and put in more computers?



The computers that are there are so old, it is laughable.  Maybe they will use this money to add wireless internet to the building?  Highly doubt it.  

Remember, the fee is being charged to RCI Exchangers only.  You can bet we will not be exchanging into the Manhattan Club again, at least not through RCI.


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## jancpa (Mar 17, 2006)

I wonder if Interval International exchangers will be charged the fee once the Manhattan Club gets their $30,000 penthouse units up and running.


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## Sydney (Mar 17, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> I guess you assume that RCI cares more about their relationship with you than they do about their relationship with MC.
> 
> Since they clearly care more about MC, they would rather have a couple of customer service supervisors deal with you screaming and foaming at the mouth than the GM of the MC.  Because then, a VP would be the one being screamed at.



Boca, we know full well why RCI does not go to bat for its members. We're just saying it's wrong for them not to stand their ground as they would legally be in the right since the fees were brought in after members had already agreed to the terms of exchange.


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## timeos2 (Mar 17, 2006)

*II hasn't met a fee they didn't like*



			
				jancpa said:
			
		

> I wonder if Interval International exchangers will be charged the fee once the Manhattan Club gets their $30,000 penthouse units up and running.


You'll be lucky if it's ONLY the $25 when II is involved. They love to let their favored developers, which seems to be anyone they ever met, tack on any fee they wish.  It is one of many peeves I have with II.


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## sandiego (Mar 17, 2006)

*Yes,There is a charge as of April 1, 2006*

I just called a front desk manager at the Manhattan Club.It is true. There will be a charge as of April 1,2006 on all RCI exchanges.


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## Sue K (Mar 18, 2006)

A lot of weird things are happening at the MC and I really think they are prompted by RCI.  We have been owners for a good number of years now and have ALWAYS paid very high maintenance fees because it is run like a hotel with daily maid service.  We have always accepted this as we love going there.  Those of you who traded in lucked out by getting these free services.  Well, somehow RCI talked the MC powers that be to convert to RCI points.  Owners were never given the option to vote on this, it just happened.  When we were there in December we were invited to an owners meeting to discuss this "wonderful" new concept.  Trading to RCI points would be such a "great advantage."  My husband and I more or less told them they were crazy for doing this and we would never convert to points.  Apparently this new fee is a result of this "wonderful" new concept.  I'm sorry that people trading in have to pay a fee now but be assured the owners have been paying it for years with their maintenance fees.  My answer to those of you who don't want to pay this fee is this - then trade in.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 18, 2006)

Sue K said:
			
		

> A lot of weird things are happening at the MC and I really think they are prompted by RCI.  We have been owners for a good number of years now and have ALWAYS paid very high maintenance fees because it is run like a hotel with daily maid service.  We have always accepted this as we love going there.  Those of you who traded in lucked out by getting these free services.  Well, somehow RCI talked the MC powers that be to convert to RCI points.  Owners were never given the option to vote on this, it just happened.  When we were there in December we were invited to an owners meeting to discuss this "wonderful" new concept.  Trading to RCI points would be such a "great advantage."  My husband and I more or less told them they were crazy for doing this and we would never convert to points.  Apparently this new fee is a result of this "wonderful" new concept.  I'm sorry that people trading in have to pay a fee now but be assured the owners have been paying it for years with their maintenance fees.  My answer to those of you who don't want to pay this fee is this - then trade in.


Sue - I really don't understand your logic here. Can you expand on it  a bit?

You say the those who traded in lucked ut by getting free services that the owners were paying for in their maintenance fees.  But when a person exchanges in, didn't the MC owner of that week pay for those services through his or her maintenance fee?  Since the services were paid for by the owner of the week, isn't the resort "double dipping" by tying to collect it again from the exchanger?

Also, I don't wee what the problem is with the resort offering points.  No one is being forced to convert, but the choice is there is if someone wants it.  At my resorts that now offer Points, the HOA decided that members should have the option to choose whether  or not to participate - there was no reason for the Board to take that option away from members who might prefer to convert.  

That seems to me to be the case here.  What is the problem with giving members the choice of converting to Points?


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## Avery (Mar 18, 2006)

jancpa said:
			
		

> I can't think of a Plan B but I hope this won't become like the infamous $95 Disney fee that is now etched in stone.
> 
> You know, if the Manhattan Club has 100 exchangers (of 242 units) in a typical week paying $150 ($105-$175), they would have an extra $15,000.  This works out to be $780,000 per year EXTRA.  Do you think they would expand the business center and put in more computers?



I'd settle for them replacing or reupholstering the sofas. The sofa in our room was really gross/stained/dirty, I covered it with a sheet. They are apparently sending them out to be cleaned, starting with lower floors first. I d/n think that's going to do the trick, but it will help for a short time I guess


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