# Club access vs deed



## 3musketeers (Dec 30, 2017)

I need some help trying to figure this one out....Currently I'm a platinum owner (just barely) with everything in access.  At my update/sales pitch last week the offer I was made was: take 300,000 of my points out of access and put them in a deeded property with an additional 103,000 points. Here's the kicker...lower MF on the deeded property so my monthly MF isn't changing with the additional points. My loan fee increases by less than $20 but is actually paid off a year early than if I stay with what I currently have.  
I know there's a catch that I'm missing especially bc I was told I could think on it for 30 days! I'm hoping someone can help me figure this out bc I've made enough mistakes when it comes to timeshare buying. Right now I'm seeing more points and paid off a year sooner.


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## paxsarah (Dec 30, 2017)

You are already a platinum owner. Walk away from whatever offer they're making you.


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## 3musketeers (Dec 30, 2017)

paxsarah said:


> You are already a platinum owner. Walk away from whatever offer they're making you.



That's why this is bugging me bc it actually looks like it might be benefiting me in the long run and I'm not paying any down payment. But, I'm sure there's something hidden that I'm missing.


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## Avislo (Dec 30, 2017)

Stay with what you own.  If you were starting out with developer purchases, I would go with the deeded properties.  One good thing about Club Wyndham Access is  the deeds can be subdivided if you ever want to shrink the account and if things go bad,  Wyndham is more likely to take the contract back after a 60 day or more late.  The other side of the coin is you have more time to recover if the properties are deeded.


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## ecwinch (Dec 30, 2017)

3musketeers said:


> That's why this is bugging me bc it actually looks like it might be benefiting me in the long run and I'm not paying any down payment. But, I'm sure there's something hidden that I'm missing.



I don't see how the math lines out unless you are planning on owning it for 35+ years.


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## Jan M. (Dec 31, 2017)

Same or lower maintenance fees with more points, paid off a year earlier for only $20 a month. Hummm, if you want and can use the extra points then is certainly worth considering. Which resort is this deed at? I'd ask what kind of deal they could make you to take 500,000 of those CWA points and get you deeded at a resort with lower maintenance fees than CWA.

What I find too funny for words is that sales has now come full circle. Deeded owners have been told their points will be worthless and other ridiculous lies to convince them to part with their deeds in favor of Club Wyndham Access points with, in many if not most cases, higher maintenance fees. Buy CWA points they said, it will protect you from seeing huge increases in your maintenance fees. Of course the increases in the maintenance fees for CWA were typically higher than most of the resorts and were higher than many resorts to start with.


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## markb53 (Dec 31, 2017)

They will always find something wrong with what you have and the solution is always to buy more. I suspect a couple of big lies here. I bet the claimed savings in MF with the deeded contract is not there. I went through a update where a sales rep showed me on paper how much I could save be trading in my CWA for a deeded contract. Funny how they never let you take those pieces of paper with you. Fortunately I have a could memory. When I check TUG after the update, I found that the claimed MF was very close to the MF cost of CWA. I also bet that the $20 per month less and paid off quicker is likely not the whole story. The OP should be very careful before signing up for this deal.


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## kaljor (Dec 31, 2017)

As the poster above me said, they will always find a problem with your ownership and the solution will always be to buy more points.

They will always say that if you have CWA points you should trade them for UDI points, and if you have UDI points you should trade them for CWA points. With only a "small" additional purchase.

In addition to the above good advice posted, I would remind you that you can buy (your own choice) either UDI or CWA points on eBay or another secondary marketplace for as little as 1/2 cent per point, and those points will enjoy all the VIP benefits you currently enjoy.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 31, 2017)

Stop going to Sales Presentations! You are on vacation and should be sleeping in, interacting with your LOVED ONES, seeing the sites, stuffing your face with goodies, even HANG GLIDING .... but to think spending HOURS of time being tortured and lied to in a slimey con of an owners' update .... you should just say to the front desk staff (a newer version of the Hang Tag bosy snatchers) .... "Sorry, am already booked for all my time here at the resort. Not one minute free." AND then, ONLY use the phrase, "Sorry, No!" .. each time getting LOUDER and LOUDER. Polite you were; ruder they become. Walk away.

CWA was a plan to convert to points unsold or returned inventory at the OLDER and SMALLER resorts where sales either could not move enough inventory or the fixed week seasons where undesirable. All fixed week units have the same MFs based on unit size and/or building ... NOT the season of the year. Most resorts could sell all their PRIME weeks 10 fold but varied the PRICE to buy the off-season units. Resale buyers pay only for WHAT they want ... mostly PRIME time.

Buy resale. Renting from other owners your vacation stays MIGHT be even a better longterm deal.


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## 3musketeers (Dec 31, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Same or lower maintenance fees with more points, paid off a year earlier for only $20 a month. Hummm, if you want and can use the extra points then is certainly worth considering. Which resort is this deed at? I'd ask what kind of deal they could make you to take 500,000 of those CWA points and get you deeded at a resort with lower maintenance fees than CWA.
> 
> What I find too funny for words is that sales has now come full circle. Deeded owners have been told their points will be worthless and other ridiculous lies to convince them to part with their deeds in favor of Club Wyndham Access points with, in many if not most cases, higher maintenance fees. Buy CWA points they said, it will protect you from seeing huge increases in your maintenance fees. Of course the increases in the maintenance fees for CWA were typically higher than most of the resorts and were higher than many resorts to start with.


The deed would be at National Harbor whose maintence fees are lower than CWA, but who knows if they will stay that way.


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## Roger830 (Dec 31, 2017)

If 300,000 points of Access are replaced by 403,000 of a contract like National Harbor, then there won't be an increase in MF. 

Then the question is, does the op want more points and a slight increase in the loan?

Why not convert 500,000 or 1,000,000 points and save money each month?


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## 3musketeers (Dec 31, 2017)

ecwinch said:


> I don't see how the math lines out unless you are planning on owning it for 35+ years.


Maybe I'm not doing the math right, but I think I am, but again that's why I'm here to double check. With my math a $20 increase with the new loan is less money total than a year of payments on my current loan which I would be saving, because the new loan would be paid off a year sooner.  The deeded property is at national harbor whose MF are definitely lower than CWA so the extra 100,000 points didn't change my total maintenance fees. 
As far as how long I'm planning to travel I have at least 30+ years of travel ahead of me, hopefully. And 2 boys who will get this after me.


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## 3musketeers (Dec 31, 2017)

Roger830 said:


> If 300,000 points of Access are replaced by 403,000 of a contract like National Harbor, then there won't be an increase in MF.
> 
> Then the question is, does the op want more points and a slight increase in the loan?
> 
> Why not convert 500,000 or 1,000,000 points and save money each month?


I was presented a plan that transferred more to NH but was a 200,000 point increase but was also a significant increase in the monthly loan amount, which is not an option.
Am I losing anything important by taking points out of CWA?  From my understanding it won't affect my platinum benefits or ARP.


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## Roger830 (Dec 31, 2017)

3musketeers said:


> I was presented a plan that transferred more to NH but was a 200,000 point increase but was also a significant increase in the monthly loan amount, which is not an option.
> Am I losing anything important by taking points out of CWA?  From my understanding it won't affect my platinum benefits or ARP.



I own National Harbor and Panama City, another low mf contract, and have never been a fan of CWA.

CWA mf can increase at a higher rate than National Harbor as more high mf contracts are added. Why would Wyndham add low mf resorts to CWA if they can be sold?

But CWA does offer arp at multiple resorts, if that is useful, and dilutes the cost of special assessments.


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## paxsarah (Dec 31, 2017)

Is the $20 increase in the loan only, or is the $20 increase in loan + MFs? What is the term of the loan? (I've never bought from Wyndham, so I don't know what's typical.) It seems implausible that a loan increase of only $20/month is going to pay for that 103,000 points.


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## 3musketeers (Dec 31, 2017)

Increase is in the loan only. MF actually stays the same. It's a 10 year loan.


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## Braindead (Dec 31, 2017)

3musketeers said:


> Maybe I'm not doing the math right, but I think I am, but again that's why I'm here to double check. With my math a $20 increase with the new loan is less money total than a year of payments on my current loan which I would be saving, because the new loan would be paid off a year sooner.  The deeded property is at national harbor whose MF are definitely lower than CWA so the extra 100,000 points didn't change my total maintenance fees.
> As far as how long I'm planning to travel I have at least 30+ years of travel ahead of me, hopefully. And 2 boys who will get this after me.


If you decide to move forward. When signing the contract make sure you are getting the additional deeded points.
If they are selling you an additional 100,000 points for $20,000.00 on a 10 year loan your loan will go up more than $20 per month especially with the high interest rate they charge. Make sure the additional points aren’t just bonus points.

I personally would rather do this deal at Desert Blue.
Vegas has very little exposure to natural disasters. Only one minor earthquake in decades that most didn’t even feel.
Little to no rain or snow.
Newer resort that has the best shot at keeping MFs low for along time into the future in my opinion.

You have the important things in your favor to make this beneficial to you
Your age. Hopefully many years to travel.
Someone that hopefully wants to keep the ownership. I would add the kids to the deeds as soon as possible in case Wyndham changes the rule on transferring or inheriting VIP ownerships. You can always remove them from the deeds later if they no longer want them

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do. Let us know if deal changes if when you decide to go forward.
JUST BECAREFUL OF THE BAIT AND SWITCH


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## 3musketeers (Dec 31, 2017)

Braindead said:


> If you decide to move forward. When signing the contract make sure you are getting the additional deeded points.
> If they are selling you an additional 100,000 points for $20,000.00 on a 10 year loan your loan will go up more than $20 per month especially with the high interest rate they charge. Make sure the additional points aren’t just bonus points.
> 
> I personally would rather do this deal at Desert Blue.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions! I hadn't thought about getting the boys on the deeds so I will definitely check into that.


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## markb53 (Dec 31, 2017)

3musketeers said:


> Increase is in the loan only. MF actually stays the same. It's a 10 year loan.



You are correct that the MF on 403K at National Harbor is almost exactly the same as 300K at CWA for 2018. 

That brings us to the loan. How much is the loan increasing. Are they or you refinancing the whole loan at a lower rate? Are you making and additional down payment? 
103k points would probably cost in the neighborhood of $20,000.00. $20,000.00 paid off over 10 years is upwards of $200.00 per month. Not sure how the increase in the loan by $20,000.00 would only increase your loan by $20 per month and pay it off a year sooner if you are financing through Wyndham. 
Please explain your math.


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## Braindead (Dec 31, 2017)

3musketeers said:


> Increase is in the loan only. MF actually stays the same. It's a 10 year loan.


Free loan calculators online.
A $20,000.00 loan at 15% interest  for 10 years = $322.67 payment per month
A $20,000.00 loan at 0% interest  for 10 years = $166.67 principal payment per month.
The math doesn’t add up!!


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## raygo123 (Dec 31, 2017)

markb53 said:


> They will always find something wrong with what you have and the solution is always to buy more. I suspect a couple of big lies here. I bet the claimed savings in MF with the deeded contract is not there. I went through a update where a sales rep showed me on paper how much I could save be trading in my CWA for a deeded contract. Funny how they never let you take those pieces of paper with you. Fortunately I have a could memory. When I check TUG after the update, I found that the claimed MF was very close to the MF cost of CWA. I also bet that the $20 per month less and paid off quicker is likely not the whole story. The OP should be very careful before signing up for this deal.


More than likely the principle is above where he first bought with lower interest rates and shorter pay off.  Make sure you know what amount the loan.  If your cashflow changes and you want to roll it into another loan.  

Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk


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## 55plus (Dec 31, 2017)

In my opinion it doesn't make sense to add additional financing to save a few dollars since you are already platinum. Sales weasels only want to get into you pockets. It's all about their commission and Wyndham's bottom line. Walk away and save your money - apply to your high interest loan.


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