# Some advice please



## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 13, 2012)

First off...great website.

Second...like most I went through the HGVC sales pitch.  Not only was it high pressure, but after the salesperson realized I wasn't going to plop down 6k down payment they tried to push me into something I knew was a bad idea (3400 points odd years).  The fact that they thought I was naive enough to pay 1k a year maintenance for essentially a 3 day vacation every other year frankly made me    

...but here's the thing.  I like HGVC.  I would love to have this for my family.  I do realize, though, it would probably take me 7000 points a year to make it worthwhile.  

So some help please.  Let's be realistic....what should I expect on the resale market?  Sure I see the $2,000 resale on ebay...but I know that would never go through ROFR.  Can I get this for under 10k?  Are there sites I should avoid?  

I know this probably has been covered a million times, but it is a lot to go through....thanks in advance!


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 13, 2012)

I should also mention I did purchase the 7000 point 18 month preview for 1695.  Seemed like a good deal..no obligation (beyond another sales pitch :hysterical: ) Thinking about 5 days in NYC.


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## RX8 (Feb 13, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> I should also mention I did purchase the 7000 point 18 month preview for 1695.  Seemed like a good deal..no obligation (beyond another sales pitch :hysterical: ) Thinking about 5 days in NYC.



I did the same thing with the VIP membership.  I got MANY days worth of vacations, some already taken and some scheduled for later this year.  Based on how many days I got, I think I got my money's worth.  A recommendation to stretch your points is to avoid the weekends and travel during the gold season.

Since you have vacation to take the next 18 months, take your time with a purchase as there is no need to rush.  Read the many threads here to make sure a TS is for you and that the TS should be HGVC.  After a number of months, you will have a better idea of what is best for you.


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## Passepartout (Feb 14, 2012)

There is a resale broker or 2 that frequent TUG. They probably don't beat the eBay prices, but pass ROFR and (I understand) are dealt with in a professional manner without hassles, lies and runaround. Check the TUG BBB in the Buying, Selling, Renting Forum or search for HGVC Resales.

Jim


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## Tamaradarann (Feb 14, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> There is a resale broker or 2 that frequent TUG. They probably don't beat the eBay prices, but pass ROFR and (I understand) are dealt with in a professional manner without hassles, lies and runaround. Check the TUG BBB in the Buying, Selling, Renting Forum or search for HGVC Resales.
> 
> Jim



I have purchased a few resale timeshares from Seth Noch and he is reliable and will get the sale thru ROFR.  If you like the system why not but resale and get into the system.  it is much less expensive than buying from the developer. From the outside it is impossible to really know what you can do and what you are getting yourself into.  We purchased one in 2006 and have now purchased six and have 34600 points.  We vacation for about 17 weeks a year in places we never dreamed of before.  If you can afford the resales buy them and have fun.


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## Remy (Feb 14, 2012)

HGVC is a great system and worth the time to research before making a purchase. 

If I were making a purchase tomorrow, it would be at the LV Strip for 7,000 platinum points. The developer will attempt to sell them for a little over $40,000 while ROFR will land somewhere around $13,000. It's a chunk of change, but comes with a very low annual fee.

You could also go with a property with no ROFR, but most of those folks have figured out there's demand to avoid ROFR and get pretty close to it anyway (I'm looking at you Flamingo).


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## RX8 (Feb 14, 2012)

Remy said:


> If I were making a purchase tomorrow, it would be at the LV Strip for 7,000 platinum points... but comes with a very low annual fee.



Do you know if the Las Vegas Strip MF is currently subsidized by the developer?


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## Talent312 (Feb 14, 2012)

If I were buying today, I'd use one of these brokers who specialize in HGVC.
They have stellar reps among the Hilton posters and post helpful information:

Judy Koz... -- http://judikoz.com/
Seth Nock --- http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/

Judy has been involved in helping clean up the resale scammers.


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## dvc_john (Feb 14, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> they tried to push me into something I knew was a bad idea (3400 points odd years).  The fact that they thought I was naive enough to pay 1k a year maintenance for essentially a 3 day vacation every other year frankly made me



I'm not trying to defend a salesman, but just about everything in that statement is incorrect.
3400 EOY is a 1br gold, and mf's (at Tuscany) run about $700 every other year, not 1K/year. And 3400 EOY points gets you a week every other year, not 3 days every other year. And depending on how you use the points, you could get 5 days one year, and 4 days the next (all in a 1br gold season).


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 14, 2012)

dvc_john said:


> I'm not trying to defend a salesman, but just about everything in that statement is incorrect.
> 3400 EOY is a 1br gold, and mf's (at Tuscany) run about $700 every other year, not 1K/year. And 3400 EOY points gets you a week every other year, not 3 days every other year. And depending on how you use the points, you could get 5 days one year, and 4 days the next (all in a 1br gold season).



Yes you are partly correct (I wrote my original post right after getting back from a long week at Disney :zzz: ).  The property was actually Myrtle Beach so the MF's were 960 every OTHER year.  3400 points does get you a week every other year as long as you can manage to travel during the gold season (which is possible in Orlando and Vegas, but it seems to me is really difficult in Hawaii or New York).

Bottom line, though, is that their numbers don't work for me.  For the sake of math let's call it 500 a year in MFs...122 a month for the deed (9500 financed for 10 years at a ridiculous interest rate)...that is essentially 2000 a year.  So if I do indeed get a week every other year, that week's vacation cost me 4000.  Yes after a while you pay off the deed, but to me this program isn't worth considering under 5000 points a year, but preferably 7000.

Thanks for all of the input so far....keep it coming....again I really do like HGVC just not the numbers that were thrown at me during the sales pitch!


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## Gophesjo (Feb 14, 2012)

*Anderson Ocean Club HGVC Myrtle Beach*



pavlovsdog00 said:


> The property was actually Myrtle Beach so the MF's were 960 every OTHER year.



What did you think of the Myrtle Beach property?  I am going to be there this weekend and have been thinking about going to see it.  Thank you,

Joe


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## dvc_john (Feb 14, 2012)

I visited the Myrtle Beach property last week, and had rather mixed feelings about it. I didn't do a sales tour, just stopped by to see the units. It was nice enough, but I was staying at Marriott's Ocean Watch Villas at the time, and IMHO the Marriott was much much nicer.

I would be interested to hear other's opinions of it though.

I do have concerns about the future direction of HGVC using conversions rather than purpose built. It seems to me that conversions are almost always never as nice as purpose built timeshare resorts.


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## amycurl (Feb 14, 2012)

The pics on the website look amazing, and it really has me thinking about HGVC as our second timeshare....


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry I didn't actually visit Myrtle Beach...that was just the property they tried to sell me because it "best fit my needs and had the best promotions" (which may mean it is the property they have the most inventory to unload if you want to be cynical about it)


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## itradehilton (Feb 14, 2012)

We started with 7000 HGVC points too and took many wonderful vacations and 4 years later bought another 7000 points. The only thing I would do different is start with a resale purchase.


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## linsj (Feb 14, 2012)

dvc_john said:


> And depending on how you use the points, you could get 5 days one year, and 4 days the next (all in a 1br gold season).



Or two weeks in a studio in Oahu during gold season with 200 points left.


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## Remy (Feb 14, 2012)

RX8 said:


> Do you know if the Las Vegas Strip MF is currently subsidized by the developer?



The low MFs all around in Vegas lead me to believe they are not heavily subsidized, if at all. One could easily choose the Karen property or the Flamingo if that's a long-term concern. The MF is roughly $100 a year more at those locations.

Trust that long-term the lower maintenance fee will have you feeling better about your purchase than the lower entry fee at some locations that have $1,000-plus MFs assaulting you annually (I'm looking at you Bay Club). Those can also be more difficult to eventually sell with lower demand and the potential of the broker fee being higher than the sales price (before I get crucified by Bay Club enthusiasts: depending on the season and unit size chosen, which can also be the case at other resorts).

I agree that using Judi or Seth is your best bet in resale. I've not purchased from either, but have sold a unit through Seth. He is very easy to work with.


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## PigsDad (Feb 14, 2012)

dvc_john said:


> I do have concerns about the future direction of HGVC using conversions rather than purpose built. It seems to me that conversions are almost always never as nice as purpose built timeshare resorts.


I share that concern with you.  I think that so far they have done a pretty good job of only adding properties that compare decently to the existing purpose built properties, but if they start adding junk, that would bring down the value of the whole HGVC system.

Kurt


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 15, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the advice.

After much thought I've decided to cancel my VIP membership, and use the 1695 towards closing costs on a HGVC resale through Judy or Seth (thanks talent).  

So after scouring old messages on this site would the general consensus still be just buy into the cheapest MFs?  I noticed the Sea World property and the Flamingo tend to hover around 750.  Should I pay a little extra money for the Flamingo just to have the piece of mind of no ROFR?  I'm staying away from the high dollar properties (like Hawaii) because resale doesn't mean quite as much to me if I get in cheap, and I definitely would not be one to just use a week at my home property.

...I've decided 5000 points is right for me, but I'm also open to starting a little lower (maybe 3500), and then adding on in the future. 

Advice is appreciated


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## RX8 (Feb 15, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> Thank you everyone for the advice.
> 
> After much thought I've decided to cancel my VIP membership, and use the 1695 towards closing costs on a HGVC resale through Judy or Seth (thanks talent).
> 
> ...



Regarding your points, if 5000 is right for you then you should look to purchase that in lieu of starting lower.  There is no way to simply add points to your existing contract.  If you purchase 3500 points now and want more later, your options are to buy another week (now TWO maintenance fees) or to sell the 3500 point contract and buy another higher point contract.

However, if you are don't mind reserving late, you could have a 3500 point contract and use the open season option to fill out your additional vacation needs.  If you plan on using the Florida locations often, since that is where you live, the open season might work well for you as there is usually availability due to the over supply.


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 15, 2012)

RX8 said:


> Regarding your points, if 5000 is right for you then you should look to purchase that in lieu of starting lower.  There is no way to simply add points to your existing contract.  If you purchase 3500 points now and want more later, your options are to buy another week (now TWO maintenance fees) or to sell the 3500 point contract and buy another higher point contract.
> 
> However, if you are don't mind reserving late, you could have a 3500 point contract and use the open season option to fill out your additional vacation needs.  If you plan on using the Florida locations often, since that is where you live, the open season might work well for you as there is usually availability due to the over supply.



Thanks for clearing that up for me.  At the sales pitch they told me "you can always add points later", and with all the BS they were feeding me I should've realized that wasn't that easy.

...and you're right...living in Tampa means Open Season would be fine for me for Orlando (I visit Parc Soleil typically 5-10 days a year spread out), and 3500 points could probably get me 7 days in a 1br suite (either in off peak season or in somewhere like Vegas).


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## hvacrsteve (Feb 16, 2012)

Save yourself the trouble, don't buy HGVC, the fees will be more the hotel cost in the long run!


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## Remy (Feb 16, 2012)

hvacrsteve said:


> Save yourself the trouble, don't buy HGVC, the fees will be more the hotel cost in the long run!



The rates I "pay" on a two bedroom are less than nights in many Hampton Inns.


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 18, 2012)

Anyone have an opinion on this auction (assuming it went for the opening bid price)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5000-HGVC-P...=Timeshares&hash=item53eb9cbaaa#ht_3706wt_872


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## gnorth16 (Feb 18, 2012)

Just be aware that the transfer fee is $995....Not so with regular HGVC's, which I believe is $399.


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## Talent312 (Feb 18, 2012)

hvacrsteve said:


> Save yourself the trouble, don't buy HGVC, the fees will be more the hotel cost in the long run!



I realize that you're "down on HGVC," but comparing the cost of a hotel room to MF's does not compute. Most folks are into condo-style vacations becuz they want more than a hotel room. It is true that many condos or TS's can be had for less than MF's.

However, rare would be TS or condo with the same quality and amenities as a HGVC-resort that could be rented for the MF's. Folks get into hotel-based resorts becuz they have a consistently higher quality product than the average TS property and thus, rent for more. IOW, a week at a Super8 motel might be had for $600, so sure, you'd save $$; however, that's not the experience most TS vacationers are looking for.


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## JeffBrown (Feb 18, 2012)

*ROFR*



pavlovsdog00 said:


> First off...great website.
> 
> Sure I see the $2,000 resale on ebay...but I know that would never go through ROFR.  Can I get this for under 10k?  Are there sites I should avoid?



Last year (2011) we(Sumday Vacations) sold over 50 HGVC contracts, 1 of those 50 did not pass ROFR at $1500, ALL others were priced between the $2k and $4500 price range and all passed ROFR. 

One other thing people mentioned, true transfer fees for HGVC is $499 (resort's transfer fee only, not recording, etc.)


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## RX8 (Feb 18, 2012)

JeffBrown said:


> Last year (2011) we(Sumday Vacations) sold over 50 HGVC contracts, 1 of those 50 did not pass ROFR at $1500, ALL others were priced between the $2k and $4500 price range and all passed ROFR.
> 
> One other thing people mentioned, true transfer fees for HGVC is $499 (resort's transfer fee only, not recording, etc.)



2012 HGVC guide states transfer fee is $399.  Some, such as Marbrisa, is $995.


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## Talent312 (Feb 18, 2012)

RX8 said:


> 2012 HGVC guide states transfer fee is $399.  Some, such as Marbrisa, is $995.



TUGBrian posted this at the beginning of January:

*New HGVC Estoppel Fees $35*
-----------------------------------
Received a note from a broker earlier today informing me that Hilton will be charging a $35.00 estoppel fee effective immediately. The fee will have to be included with the request.
Just passing this along to members considering buying resale.
-----------------------------------

_Wondering if anyone has been charged this._


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## Seth Nock (Feb 19, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> TUGBrian posted this at the beginning of January:
> 
> *New HGVC Estoppel Fees $35*
> -----------------------------------
> ...



Yes.  Transfer fee is $399 + $35 estoppel fee.  They are both required fees.


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## TheWizz (Feb 20, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> Anyone have an opinion on this auction (assuming it went for the opening bid price)?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5000-HGVC-P...=Timeshares&hash=item53eb9cbaaa#ht_3706wt_872



I highly recommend buying an affiliate like Grand Pacific Palisades (GPP).  I stayed at MarBrisa this past summer in a 2BR unit and I own two units at GPP.  If you don't care about HGVC Elite Status or getting to 14k points, then this deal at MarBrisa would be a good deal at less than $.25-.50 per point.  Don't know if that would pass ROFR or not.  GPP doesn't have ROFR.  The reason it isn't a great deal is that it is a Gold week.  If you would like HGVC Elite status without buying direct from the developer at their $$, then buying from the GPP Resale Team is another good option and when you buy direct from GPP, you can convert to HGVC Points and even get HGVC Elite status if you buy two platinum weeks like a 8400 point 2BR unit and a 6200 point 1BR unit.  The key is to get as many points as possible (Platinum vs. Gold) for the unit size purchased since MFs in most cases are based upon the unit size, not the season.  So a gold owner with 5000 2BR points is paying the same MFs each year as a platinum owner with 7000 2BR points.  Unfortunately, this unit at MarBrisa is a 2BR Gold unit, so I believe (long-term) you are not getting the same value for the MFs each year as a platinum week owner.  It took me a year to find what I was looking for, so sometimes it's the law of supply and demand and of course your patience level.


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## pavlovsdog00 (Feb 23, 2012)

for anyone interested

I sent my letter to cancel my VIP package on 2/14...they received it on 2/16...and this morning 2/23 I had my refund back onto my credit card.

For as much as the sales pitch left a bad taste in my mouth I will give HGVC that they are a stand up company and don't play games  

Ready for the resale market now!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Feb 23, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> for anyone interested
> 
> I sent my letter to cancel my VIP package on 2/14...they received it on 2/16...and this morning 2/23 I had my refund back onto my credit card.
> 
> ...



RX8 (he posted in this thread) is a great resource on how to "take your time to do the research" before buying. Keep in touch with him. He has spent countless hours on his research.


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## SmithOp (Feb 23, 2012)

TheWizz said:


> I highly recommend buying an affiliate like Grand Pacific Palisades (GPP).
> ... Snipped for brevity ...
> 
> so I believe (long-term) you (gold owners) are not getting the same value for the MFs each year as a platinum week owner.



I agree with everything regarding buying affiliates, but I've had just as much value from my gold weeks, perhaps more since I prefer to travel gold season when its cheaper and less crowded. I'm thinking $5 gas and high airfares this summer. 

My affiliate of choice would be Bay Club.


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## TheWizz (Mar 4, 2012)

SmithOp said:


> I agree with everything regarding buying affiliates, but I've had just as much value from my gold weeks, perhaps more since I prefer to travel gold season when its cheaper and less crowded. I'm thinking $5 gas and high airfares this summer.
> 
> My affiliate of choice would be Bay Club.



Agreed.  I wasn't saying it isn't a better value to "travel" in Gold season, I was saying it is a better value to not "buy" a Gold season TS unit vs. a Platinum season TS unit.  A 2BR at a HGVC resort or affiliate will cost X per year based upon the unit size, _not the season_, in most cases, so for the same maintenance fees, if you have the opportunity to buy resale Platinum weeks, you'll get more points per year for the same $$ paid for the maintenance of that unit.


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## whatsburning (Mar 5, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> For as much as the sales pitch left a bad taste in my mouth I will give HGVC that they are a stand up company and don't play games



Uh oh, don't tell Remy that, he ain't biting!


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## PenguinTS (Mar 5, 2012)

TheWizz said:


> Agreed.  I wasn't saying it isn't a better value to "travel" in Gold season, I was saying it is a better value to not "buy" a Gold season TS unit vs. a Platinum season TS unit.  A 2BR at a HGVC resort or affiliate will cost X per year based upon the unit size, _not the season_, in most cases, so for the same maintenance fees, if you have the opportunity to buy resale Platinum weeks, you'll get more points per year for the same $$ paid for the maintenance of that unit.



The quandary I'm in as someone that wants to "jump in", is paying for the huge upfront on PLT worth it over GLD. 

When you work the math, you don't recoup the difference until 17 years out... so yes if the upfront pricing was the same everyone would purchase PLT over GLD, but it's not. 

Right now it's $1.9/pt for PLT HGVC weeks vs $1.3/pt for GLD HGVC. For affiliates even lower <$1 and the one's that people tend to like are the Carlsbad one's of which mainly only MarBrisa I see on the market (very few listings) with a huge transfer fee and the other is Bay Club with it's high maintenance fee.


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## pavlovsdog00 (Mar 5, 2012)

whatsburning said:


> Uh oh, don't tell Remy that, he ain't biting!



Ha!  Yeah I guess it was kind of presumptuous of me to call them a stand up company with my limited experience with them!


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## pavlovsdog00 (Mar 5, 2012)

PenguinTS said:


> The quandary I'm in as someone that wants to "jump in", is paying for the huge upfront on PLT worth it over GLD.
> 
> When you work the math, you don't recoup the difference until 17 years out... so yes if the upfront pricing was the same everyone would purchase PLT over GLD, but it's not.
> 
> Right now it's $1.9/pt for PLT HGVC weeks vs $1.3/pt for GLD HGVC. For affiliates even lower <$1 and the one's that people tend to like are the Carlsbad one's of which mainly only MarBrisa I see on the market (very few listings) with a huge transfer fee and the other is Bay Club with it's high maintenance fee.



I'm kind of with you...the other point that is routinely brought up is resale of platinum points....but if I bought a Gold pkg for half the price I'm not so sure if I would care as much about resale value


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## SmithOp (Mar 5, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> I'm kind of with you...the other point that is routinely brought up is resale of platinum points....but if I bought a Gold pkg for half the price I'm not so sure if I would care as much about resale value



Exactly, you dont buy timeshares for resale value. 

I purchased gold because I always prefer to vacation on the shoulder seasons and it gave me the best bang for the buck at the time. Sure, the break even point is 17 years out, lot can happen in that time.


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## TheWizz (Mar 6, 2012)

PenguinTS said:


> The quandary I'm in as someone that wants to "jump in", is paying for the huge upfront on PLT worth it over GLD.
> 
> When you work the math, you don't recoup the difference until 17 years out... so yes if the upfront pricing was the same everyone would purchase PLT over GLD, but it's not.
> 
> Right now it's $1.9/pt for PLT HGVC weeks vs $1.3/pt for GLD HGVC. For affiliates even lower <$1 and the one's that people tend to like are the Carlsbad one's of which mainly only MarBrisa I see on the market (very few listings) with a huge transfer fee and the other is Bay Club with it's high maintenance fee.



You can buy DIRECT from Grand Pacific Palisades Resale Dept. for ~$1 per point for PLT weeks at GPP w/ the ability to convert into HGVC, which also gives you HGVC Elite benefits if you cross the 14K point mark.  Feel free to PM me for more information about how this works.  I did this a few years ago and have been very pleased with my decision.  I have Elite access/benes with HGVC and Grand Pacific is my home resort so I have access to all the Grand Pacific Resorts for last-minute deals and GPR benes.


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## Royal Flush (Mar 7, 2012)

pavlovsdog00 said:


> First off...great website.
> 
> Second...like most I went through the HGVC sales pitch.  Not only was it high pressure, but after the salesperson realized I wasn't going to plop down 6k down payment they tried to push me into something I knew was a bad idea (3400 points odd years).  The fact that they thought I was naive enough to pay 1k a year maintenance for essentially a 3 day vacation every other year frankly made me
> 
> ...



You can expect the good people at TUG to advertise the $1 timeshares on EBAY, poor desperate people (maybe some unemployed) being ripped off and now being hurt by this. You will NEVER sell your timeshare as long as this goes on, why should anyone pay a fair price when they can find out on TUG (see the marketplace, what a JOKE!!) that EBAY advertises free timeshares, with owners PAYING the legal fees to get rid of their timeshares and the beat goes on and on, with TUG joining into the RACE to the bottom. 
Good Luck, so sorry you got fooled


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## TheWizz (Mar 8, 2012)

Perhaps I am misreading pavlovsdog00 posts, but it sounds like he exercised his recension rights and got his $$ back and is now looking for resale opportunities.  If that is the case, review my post earlier and take a look at some of the affiliates like Grand Pacific for resale options.  Slightly higher MFs than say FL, but typically a lower price compared to Flamingo.


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## pavlovsdog00 (Mar 8, 2012)

Royal Flush said:


> You can expect the good people at TUG to advertise the $1 timeshares on EBAY, poor desperate people (maybe some unemployed) being ripped off and now being hurt by this. You will NEVER sell your timeshare as long as this goes on, why should anyone pay a fair price when they can find out on TUG (see the marketplace, what a JOKE!!) that EBAY advertises free timeshares, with owners PAYING the legal fees to get rid of their timeshares and the beat goes on and on, with TUG joining into the RACE to the bottom.
> Good Luck, so sorry you got fooled



yeah i'm confused.  I didn't buy anything (except for the VIP teaser that I ultimately canceled).  Unless you just mean that I got "fooled" into thinking HGVC was even worth it on the resale market?


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