# Coronavirus and DVC prices



## macman123 (Mar 12, 2020)

What does everyone think about the current $195 a point for Riveria and the virus?

Flights from EU suspended and I suspect UK wont be far behind.

Makes up a lot of people visiting WDW

Disney likely to reduce price or make any big discounts?


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## Dean (Mar 12, 2020)

macman123 said:


> What does everyone think about the current $195 a point for Riveria and the virus?
> 
> Flights from EU suspended and I suspect UK wont be far behind.
> 
> ...


Not likely but they might offer incentives that do the same thing.  I wouldn't expect much movement unless this thing last a number of months, even then it's likely to be peanuts if anything.


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## TheHolleys87 (Mar 13, 2020)

macman123 said:


> What does everyone think about the current $195 a point for Riveria and the virus?
> 
> Flights from EU suspended and I suspect UK wont be far behind.
> 
> ...





Dean said:


> Not likely but they might offer incentives that do the same thing.  I wouldn't expect much movement unless this thing last a number of months, even then it's likely to be peanuts if anything.


During the recession 2008-2011 they didn't reduce prices at all, in fact I believe they raised them.  However they also offered tremendous incentives, including week-long Disney cruises.  So I agree with Dean, price reductions aren't likely but intriguing incentives are, if this lasts long enough.


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## bnoble (Mar 13, 2020)

If this turns into a serious recession (something I think is *very* likely) the real opportunities will be in as a renter or a resale purchaser. DVD (and most other developers) have shown a willingness to wait things out or provide "internal" incentives (like the cruise) that might just be filling an otherwise empty cabin.


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## TheHolleys87 (Mar 13, 2020)

bnoble said:


> If this turns into a serious recession (something I think is *very* likely) the real opportunities will be in as a renter or a resale purchaser. DVD (and most other developers) have shown a willingness to wait things out or provide "internal" incentives (like the cruise) that might just be filling an otherwise empty cabin.


I agree on all points.


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## TravelTime (Mar 17, 2020)

I sold 2 small contracts today and got full asking price within one day. I was pleasantly surprised. I have a bunch of larger contracts for sale so let's see if those sell.


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## TravelTime (Mar 17, 2020)

I just got an offer on another contract. They offered full asking price but want me to pay the 2020 points. Not too bad given the economy is at a stand still. I had already assumed I would need to be negotiable on my bigger contracts.


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## TravelTime (Mar 20, 2020)

Bad news. I was notified today that one of my contracts fell out of sale because the buyer was scared. This does not surprise me. I was more surprised that anyone would buy a DVC contract now.


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## dgalati (Mar 20, 2020)

bnoble said:


> If this turns into a serious recession (something I think is *very* likely) the real opportunities will be in as a renter or a resale purchaser. DVD (and most other developers) have shown a willingness to wait things out or provide "internal" incentives (like the cruise) that might just be filling an otherwise empty cabin.


I have always said renting is better then owning and the commitment of paying maintenance fees. It  becomes even a better deal during a down turn.


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## TheHolleys87 (Mar 21, 2020)

There are already a couple of reports on the DISboards of people backing out of resale contracts, including paying penalties for defaulting, planning to watch and wait for more contracts to hit the market at lower prices.  There are also reports of new direct buyers rescinding in expectation that DVC will offer better incentives, as they did during the recession, dropping the actual price without decreasing the asking price.


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## TravelTime (Apr 20, 2020)

I have sold 4 of my 7 contracts since coronavirus started. We just got the closing docs for 2 of them and had them notarized and returned. I am pleasantly surprised that people are still buying Disney timeshares. The prices were not that bad either. I had already priced in some wiggle room. So I am happy. Hope the other two go through smoothly. This gives me optimism that the economy may come back when the coronavirus is under control. I am fine if my last 3 contracts do not sell because we will use them ourselves if they do not sell. But I prefer to sell them all. So hopefully the last 3 will sell soon.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 21, 2020)

I think the biggest impact is going to be the delay of Reflections and Disneyland Hotel DVC construction. Riviera would be okay to buy once the economy comes back if it didn't have such high maintenance fees. As long as there is always a rental market, the resale restrictions aren't that big of a deal because it's super easy to rent out your points when you can't use them. However, those maintenance fees are just ridiculous. All of the DVC resorts on the monorail loop have low MF; why is the skyline so expensive?


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## Dean (Apr 21, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> I think the biggest impact is going to be the delay of Reflections and Disneyland Hotel DVC construction. Riviera would be okay to buy once the economy comes back if it didn't have such high maintenance fees. As long as there is always a rental market, the resale restrictions aren't that big of a deal because it's super easy to rent out your points when you can't use them. However, those maintenance fees are just ridiculous. All of the DVC resorts on the monorail loop have low MF; why is the skyline so expensive?


Maint fees are based on the underlying real estate and cost to manage the properties as well as a function of the points structure.  So the more points and the lower the cost to manage, the lower the fees.  This is why BLT is amount the cheapest and while a different setup, the reason SSR is among the cheapest as well.  It's also the reason that HH & VB are comparatively high.  It is a good reminder that dues considerations are more than just a cost per point thought process.


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## TravelTime (Apr 21, 2020)

I tried renting out some of my DVC points. They were in a holding account. I worked with David’s and had no luck. I even told David’s I would take like $7 a point But they did not want to lower the price. Then they sent emails every so often with a request for a booking but it was something that was not available and they sent it to everyone, not just me, so I would be competing with other owners. I also booked some reservations myself and no luck with that either. I once tried to rent out regular DVC points with 11 month window with another company and no luck. It might just be me and my expectations. I thought it would be super easy and quick. Hence, this is why I am selling my contracts.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 22, 2020)

Dean said:


> Maint fees are based on the underlying real estate and cost to manage the properties as well as a function of the points structure.  So the more points and the lower the cost to manage, the lower the fees.  This is why BLT is amount the cheapest and while a different setup, the reason SSR is among the cheapest as well.  It's also the reason that HH & VB are comparatively high.  It is a good reminder that dues considerations are more than just a cost per point thought process.



So then why is Riviera so high since the point cost there is higher than Poly and Bay Lake? Are they paying for the construction of the gondolas or just the maintenance?


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## Dean (Apr 22, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> So then why is Riviera so high since the point cost there is higher than Poly and Bay Lake? Are they paying for the construction of the gondolas or just the maintenance?


I haven't dug deep into the breakdown but assuming you're talking fees and not up front costs, the points are a little lower so the per point will be relatively higher pp.  Obviously to start out the costs are just an educated guess but I'm sure the transportation does factor into it.  Fees should only pay for ongoing costs or things added later, any construction costs should be built into the up front costs though I would assume DVD did incur some of those costs.  For BLT I think the big factors are the relatively high points and the relatively small footprint as well as the building structure giving some control of future costs.  You might want to compare SSR & OKW and the points structure or to HHI or VB to see how individual situations can affect costs.  Or why is BWV more than BCV given the similarities.  The bottom line is each resort has some unique issues when it comes to dues, esp on a PP basis.  One thing is for sure, they'll keep going up and as we saw in 08/09, the economy won't change that much and if anything, will make them go up faster if enough people default because those that pay have to cover the entire cost of managing the resort even if it's closed.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 22, 2020)

Dean said:


> I haven't dug deep into the breakdown but assuming you're talking fees and not up front costs, the points are a little lower so the per point will be relatively higher pp.  Obviously to start out the costs are just an educated guess but I'm sure the transportation does factor into it.  Fees should only pay for ongoing costs or things added later, any construction costs should be built into the up front costs though I would assume DVD did incur some of those costs.  For BLT I think the big factors are the relatively high points and the relatively small footprint as well as the building structure giving some control of future costs.  You might want to compare SSR & OKW and the points structure or to HHI or VB to see how individual situations can affect costs.  Or why is BWV more than BCV given the similarities.  The bottom line is each resort has some unique issues when it comes to dues, esp on a PP basis.  One thing is for sure, they'll keep going up and as we saw in 08/09, the economy won't change that much and if anything, will make them go up faster if enough people default because those that pay have to cover the entire cost of managing the resort even if it's closed.




My thought process is that the Riviera is just a tower with very little grounds to upkeep and a small lobby. Based on that, the building should be relatively cheap to "maintain". I think the reason the MF are high is because they are being used towards the cost of building the sky line.


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## Dean (Apr 22, 2020)

cbyrne1174 said:


> My thought process is that the Riviera is just a tower with very little grounds to upkeep and a small lobby. Based on that, the building should be relatively cheap to "maintain". I think the reason the MF are high is because they are being used towards the cost of building the sky line.


Ultimately fees will be based on cost, now they're on a guess of costs including transportation.  Maint fees are not used for construction unless it's for a later improvement voted on by the voting body that would go in the budget.  DVC doesn't have a great track record of anticipating fees out of the gate and they do make assumptions (such as VB where they reduced the size of the resort & Aulani where they just messed it up).


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 22, 2020)

so Riviera will more than likely stop being rediculously high? I remember copper creek was insanely high when it was new.


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## Dean (Apr 22, 2020)

Possibly, depends on the costs to run the resort.  Makes you wonder if the gondola is going to be an expensive proposition or at least maybe they are anticipating it being so.  Just assume it'll stay high and be pleasantly surprised if it's not.  It's not much different that VGF it's been compared to by some.  Poly is a different animal given the studio setup there making it difficult to compare.  It does seem the transportation sharing favors the resorts with a larger hotel and smaller DVC component like BCV.


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## ljmiii (Apr 24, 2020)

Riviera's transportation is budgeted at $1.13 per point for 2020 - the highest of any DVC resort. What is unknown is how this compares with the cost WDW is 'charging' it's own resorts for Skyliner access (if they do) and how this amount will change over time.


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## Dean (Apr 24, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> Riviera's transportation is budgeted at $1.13 per point for 2020 - the highest of any DVC resort. What is unknown is how this compares with the cost WDW is 'charging' it's own resorts for Skyliner access (if they do) and how this amount will change over time.


They do.  I remember a number of years ago when there was a big difference between BCV & BWV some people dug deep into this issue.  IIRC the way they calculate is based on density (# of people) rather than share footage or # of rooms or even occupancy (which is the number of rooms occupied).  This method favors BVC over BWV for example.  They do charge the costs to run each option to each resort but how much per point or even how things are divided between resorts that share services is not completely transparent.


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## ljmiii (Apr 24, 2020)

Dean said:


> They do.  I remember a number of years ago when there was a big difference between BCV & BWV...


Sorry, I meant I didn't know if WDW 'charges' its own resorts (e.g. Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort) for the use of the Skyliner in the same way as it charges DVD for its resorts (in this case Riviera).  There is considerable speculation on the Disboards that Riviera is being overcharged...


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## TravelTime (Apr 24, 2020)

I just had one of my bigger DVC contracts close and the money was wire transferred yesterday. I am really happy about this. Now I am waiting for 3 more DVC contracts to close along with a Vistana and a Hyatt contract. In total, I have sold 6 contracts during the Covid crisis (only 1 has closed so far). Pretty good! I still have 3 more DVC contracts for sale but they are larger point contracts so it makes sense they may take longer.


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## Dean (Apr 24, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> Sorry, I meant I didn't know if WDW 'charges' its own resorts (e.g. Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort) for the use of the Skyliner in the same way as it charges DVD for its resorts (in this case Riviera).  There is considerable speculation on the Disboards that Riviera is being overcharged...


The devil's in the details and at this point is likely just an educated guess in part which is about all they can do.  I wonder if the Gondola's will end up being a money pit, we'll see.  It would be reasonable to slightly overestimate at this point rather than end up with a special assessment or a big hike in fees later.  They can adjust fees downward after a couple of years if indicated.  The info I reference was specifically related to how it is done (or at least was) between the 2 types of resorts.  Each resort pays it's own way for the services provided.  I don't believe any determination is made for how much each component is actually used, just how many people and what services are available.  The short answer, as I've been told in the past, is they charge all the resorts on a prorated basis for the actual costs of the transportation provided to them.  I don't know if they don't normally have bus service if they have to contribute since inclement weather might require buses when there normally isn't bus service but I fairly sure they don't pay for something they never use.  A call to the voting rep could clear it up further if needed.


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## PcflEZFlng (Apr 24, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I just had one of my bigger DVC contracts close and the money was wire transferred yesterday. I am really happy about this. Now I am waiting for 3 more DVC contracts to close along with a Vistana and a Hyatt contract. In total, I have sold 6 contracts during the Covid crisis (only 1 has closed so far). Pretty good! I still have 3 more DVC contracts for sale but they are larger point contracts so it makes sense they may take longer.


I divested all three of my TS contracts (DVC BCV plus two Vistanas) just last fall. The last one, WMH, closed two months ago. My thinking at the time was that continuing to pay MFs no longer made sense since we had only been to BCV a couple of times over the years, and our Vistana stays were usually in low season when rent is cheap. I considered keeping BCV and just renting it out every year, but then decided against it for several reasons. One of those reasons was what if some black swan event came along in say, five years from now, and tanked the market. Never could I have possibly imagined what actually happened and how soon it came.


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## nomoretslt (Apr 30, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I just had one of my bigger DVC contracts close and the money was wire transferred yesterday. I am really happy about this. Now I am waiting for 3 more DVC contracts to close along with a Vistana and a Hyatt contract. In total, I have sold 6 contracts during the Covid crisis (only 1 has closed so far). Pretty good! I still have 3 more DVC contracts for sale but they are larger point contracts so it makes sense they may take longer.



How long did you own each contract?  Did you make use out of them and just don’t like Disney any more?  Did you make a profit?  We’ve made nice profits on the ones we sold but used the profits to buy onto newer resorts.

I’m on the lookout for a smaller BLT resale and a Riviera resale ( already bought direct).  I’m wondering if they will go down to preopening prices for Riviera or just have some good incentives.  Not really interested in incentives...price is what will do it for me.


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## got4boys (May 1, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> During the recession 2008-2011 they didn't reduce prices at all, in fact I believe they raised them.  However they also offered tremendous incentives, including week-long Disney cruises.  So I agree with Dean, price reductions aren't likely but intriguing incentives are, if this lasts long enough.


They actually did the Black Friday 2010 special at that time for Bay Lake Tower. You just had to go to one of the sales centers New York or Chicago to get the pricing. At that time, Bay Lake Tower was $120 and you could buy it for $92 or $97 per point if you bought then.

I wish I had bought more.


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## TheHolleys87 (May 2, 2020)

got4boys said:


> They actually did the Black Friday 2010 special at that time for Bay Lake Tower. You just had to go to one of the sales centers New York or Chicago to get the pricing. At that time, Bay Lake Tower was $120 and you could buy it for $92 or $97 per point if you bought then.
> 
> I wish I had bought more.


Wow, that was a deal! Living as far away from NY and Chicago as we do, I didn’t remember that offer, and none of the discussions here on TUG or on the DIS have mentioned it.


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