# DRI members son, have questions....



## ilfarmboy (Apr 21, 2010)

My parents thought they were doing a good thing and bought into Surrey Resorts in Branson,MO in the mid to late 90's and over time went into II/Sunterra/??  
Truth be told I think they have been through them all via one method or another.

Here is where we are now...they have 4 different contracts ranging from 6,000 pts to 50,000 pts.  What the heck  can be done with 84,000 pts per year (2011) and 100,000 (2010) pts that include pts rolled in from last year.  

We had never gotten involved in their affairs however, age, memory, and finances have now forced us to take a different approach.

Last year we paid over $7,000 in maintenance fees and now this year they are asking for an additional $2,000 + for the CLUB fees.  After reading the TUG forums, I think I understand what the differences are and that we should have been able to reduce our maintenance fees by using points, since we rarely use any of them.  Travel just is not in our short term plans.  

I am looking for guidance in trying to manage the points better, we will more than likely look to take over the payments, at 13.9% interest... thus the financial portion of our dilemna.  

I am looking for any help?


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## timeos2 (Apr 22, 2010)

If they (you) don't use the points and they are paid up then you / your parents should approach DRI about turning them in. DRI restricts the ability to sell the ownership (you can sell the underlying resort/use but not the club points memebrship) which greatly reduces any resale value in an already very depressed market for any timeshare property.  There have been reports that DRI will take back ownerships with fees paid up which would stop the annual payments due for your family. Maybe, if DRI will do it, that is your best way out. If they won't then I'd suggest you offer to give the timeshare away for the cost of the transfer - again the idea being to stop the annual fees and maintain your parents credit intact. And of course you can always rent the use (but be very careful to follow the rules that renting time in a points based system often carry).  

Good luck.


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## pianodinosaur (Apr 22, 2010)

You should visit the DRI web site and pull up the Member Guide.  I am not a DRI owner but have downloaded their guide on pdf because I was bidding on The Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort in an ebay auction.  I lost the auction but learned a great deal about DRI in the process.  

Most DRI members have about 8500 points per year.  This is good for a two bedroom time share during high season at most resorts.  Some resorts cost more and some cost less.  It seems that your parents have enough points to spend most of their time away from home.  This was either intentional on their part or an unscrupulous salesman took advantage of some elderly people with dementia.  If that is the case, you would have to prove that your parents were demented at time of the purchase should you seek legal recourse.  This would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.  There are people making a living by having people in their 80s sign over power of attorney and then taking them for everything they have.   Since about 1/3 of the population over 80 has some kind of dementia, there are numerous targets for these predators. 

You can use these points for some very nice vacations or sell some or all of them in order to get rid of the maintenance fees. Beware of the resale scammers!!!  If anyone asks you to give them money up front to sell your time shares, run as if your wallet depended upon it, because, it does.


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## ilfarmboy (Apr 22, 2010)

pianodinosaur said:


> You should visit the DRI web site and pull up the Member Guide.  I am not a DRI owner but have downloaded their guide on pdf because I was bidding on The Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort in an ebay auction.  I lost the auction but learned a great deal about DRI in the process.
> 
> Most DRI members have about 8500 points per year.  This is good for a two bedroom time share during high season at most resorts.  Some resorts cost more and some cost less.  It seems that your parents have enough points to spend most of their time away from home.  This was either intentional on their part or an unscrupulous salesman took advantage of some elderly people with dementia.  If that is the case, you would have to prove that your parents were demented at time of the purchase should you seek legal recourse.  This would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.  There are people making a living by having people in their 80s sign over power of attorney and then taking them for everything they have.   Since about 1/3 of the population over 80 has some kind of dementia, there are numerous targets for these predators.
> 
> You can use these points for some very nice vacations or sell some or all of them in order to get rid of the maintenance fees. Beware of the resale scammers!!!  If anyone asks you to give them money up front to sell your time shares, run as if your wallet depended upon it, because, it does.



Thanks for the replys thus far.  In saying that membership fees are paid up does that mean the entire amout is paid off?  Or just the yearly maintenance fees, and other fees on a yearly basis.  If so, i could see getting out of the largest part of the points a 50,000 point contract and keeping the three smaller (added up to 34,000) which could be of some significant use.  At least it should get rid of the largest amount of the debt. Thus reducing the payments.

Thanks, 

IL Farmboy


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## teepeeca (Apr 22, 2010)

I you (your family) still owe $$$ on the contract, I highly doubt that DRI will let you out of the contract---BUT---you can ask.  And (my opinion) if $$$ still are owed, you won't be able to "unload" the timeshare.  People aren't willing to accept a  timeshare with $$$ owed, when they can get the same thing for pennies on the dollar, that was  paid to the developer.  Sorry for the bad news.

Tony


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## pgnewarkboy (Apr 24, 2010)

Lets break this down on fees.  First, if all the units are not paid in full your parents are paying a mortgage (if deeded) down.  Once paid in full that is it as far as those charges are concerned.  Next are maintenance fees.  Your parents owe maintenance fees on all the units they own.  These fees are owed and every year they own the properties.  Next are club fees.  The amount of money paid each year to be a member of The Club (the DRI points exchange system) and II (an external exchange system).   There is only one fee every year for Club membership which includes II membership.  No matter how many properties they own there is only one membership fee and it is not based on the number of units you own.  $2000 is NOT A CLUB MEMBERSHIP FEE - IT IS CURRENTLY AROUND $200.   Sorry for the caps but this is a glaring misunderstanding on your part or your parents part.

For me 84000 points would be excessive.  It might work for you if you plan on taking 10 or 11 weeks of vacation a year. Of if you are interested in using points for airline tickets, cruises, or other DRI offerings.  There are many things you can exchange for points.  Check out the DRI web site for more informaiton.   Take stock of how much vacationing you plan to do in the foreseable future and work from there by deciding what to keep or get rid of.

Best wishes to you and your parents.


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## csalter2 (Apr 24, 2010)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Lets break this down on fees.  First, if all the units are not paid in full your parents are paying a mortgage (if deeded) down.  Once paid in full that is it as far as those charges are concerned.  Next are maintenance fees.  Your parents owe maintenance fees on all the units they own.  These fees are owed and every year they own the properties.  Next are club fees.  The amount of money paid each year to be a member of The Club (the DRI points exchange system) and II (an external exchange system).   There is only one fee every year for Club membership which includes II membership.  No matter how many properties they own there is only one membership fee and it is not based on the number of units you own.  $2000 is NOT A CLUB MEMBERSHIP FEE - IT IS CURRENTLY AROUND $200.   Sorry for the caps but this is a glaring misunderstanding on your part or your parents part.
> 
> For me 84000 points would be excessive.  It might work for you if you plan on taking 10 or 11 weeks of vacation a year. Of if you are interested in using points for airline tickets, cruises, or other DRI offerings.  There are many things you can exchange for points.  Check out the DRI web site for more informaiton.   Take stock of how much vacationing you plan to do in the foreseable future and work from there by deciding what to keep or get rid of.
> 
> Best wishes to you and your parents.



It is difficult to assess the situation because there are seem things that are difficult to understand. In the initial post the OP says "at 13.9% interest". That says there are still loans on some or all of the properties. The loans could have had several contracts all rolled into one. Maybe that is the $2000 mortgage payment. 

$7000 sounds like the ballpark for MF for 84000 points which is way too many points for an elderly couple. If used right they could stay on vacation almost the entire year and with the unlimited upgrades they could stay in the best of accommodations too. 

It also is noted that if they currently have over 100,000 points (2010) the OP needs to either save some of those points to next year, make reservations for this year and look to contribute some of the points perhaps toward airline miles. In any case don't let those points go to waste since you have to pay for them anyway. 

The OP needs to read the contracts and perhaps call DRI to get a sense of where they are to get a better understanding of what the obligations are since there is not more information that we may not know.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 24, 2010)

The OP mentions Surrey resorts, which are not part of DRI. Surrey, as I understand it, also has a points based reservtion system for their resorts in Branson. Their points structure if I recall is along the lines of 10,000 point increments whereas DRI's points based system works in 1,000 point increments. I suspect that the OP has different contracts through different developers.

In order to provide accurate assistance, we'll need to know exactly what/where the grandparents own and what the payments are for (mortgage/maintence fee's/membership dues). Right now I really can't tell what they own from the information given.

84,000 DRI points is awfully high and would be very expensive. If all those fee's are in the trust based ownership, the MF's alone would be in excess of $8,400 plus trust membership fee's and potentialy THE Club fee's on top of that. If they own at The Suite's as Fall Creek (formerly the Plantation at Fall Creek) and do not own a trust based ownership, the MF's would be more reasonable and would depend on the number of weeks owned. I haven't looked for a long time but I believe a two bedroom unit at Fall Creek was around $500/year in MF's (I could be way off on that figure). They could then be members in THE Club, which would convert those deeded weeks to points but, it would keep them out of the trust based owenrship where MF's are over 10 cents per point.

So realistically I think we'll need information that's a little more detailed about what is actually owned. Otherwise we're all just guessing.


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## ilfarmboy (Apr 26, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> The OP mentions Surrey resorts, which are not part of DRI. Surrey, as I understand it, also has a points based reservtion system for their resorts in Branson. Their points structure if I recall is along the lines of 10,000 point increments whereas DRI's points based system works in 1,000 point increments. I suspect that the OP has different contracts through different developers.
> 
> In order to provide accurate assistance, we'll need to know exactly what/where the grandparents own and what the payments are for (mortgage/maintence fee's/membership dues). Right now I really can't tell what they own from the information given.
> 
> ...



Can you tell me what is needed in order to assist me to figure this out.  I do not really know all the terminology, as you can tell.  I am only concerned from the standpoint as my parents age is getting up there and their finances are not the most stable of conditions.  They are on a very limited income and often cannot afford monthly medications due to the payment that they have over these timeshares.  I do not know how they got in the situation, and neither do they, Mom just keeps trying to pay all the bills.  

I believe that you are correct in that they are in the trust.  From there my understanding of it all goes out the window.

In November of last year we (my brothers and I) paid over $7,200 in maintenance fees.  Now there is another charge on the account for over $2,000 and my Mom is getting the run around from DRI and the resort in Branson over what it is for and who can help her understand what it is.  

I know we are wanting to get rid of them as neither my brothers nor I can use this much vacation time.  Besides the fact that none of us want to pay the mortgage on them.  So we are exploring our options of getting rid of them, for good, and want to know who convinced an aging couple to purchase so many points in the first place.  

Thanks, 

ILFarmBoy


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## teepeeca (Apr 26, 2010)

*ILFarmBoy*

Under most conditions, I wouldn't recommend what I'm now going to.  If the contracts are just in your parent's names, and they are "getting up in years", and are on "fixed"/"limited" incomes, I would have them just "walk away"---stop paying anything.  (OF course, notify DRI and Surrey of exactly what they are doing.)  They might be "collection-proof"---meaning that bill collectors can't get, or collect on any judgements against them.

Have them, or if you have their POA, you tell the companies that your parents are willing to "return" the contracts/ownership to them, and they can keep all fees already paid.  If they don't agree, re-iterate that your parents will NOT pay anything more.  Of course, all of this is assuming that they don't care of what might be up on their credit report.

I have a feeling that your parents were "snookered" by a fast talking "BAS****" that was only looking out for $$$ that he/she would make !!!  That's reprehensible, in my opinion.

Tony


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## ilfarmboy (Apr 26, 2010)

*Thanks,*

That is on target with my feelings too...


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2010)

ilfarmboy said:


> Can you tell me what is needed in order to assist me to figure this out.  I do not really know all the terminology, as you can tell.  I am only concerned from the standpoint as my parents age is getting up there and their finances are not the most stable of conditions.  They are on a very limited income and often cannot afford monthly medications due to the payment that they have over these timeshares.  I do not know how they got in the situation, and neither do they, Mom just keeps trying to pay all the bills.
> 
> I believe that you are correct in that they are in the trust.  From there my understanding of it all goes out the window.
> 
> ...



Let's start with exactly where do they own? It sounds to me as if they potentially own with two or more developers (timeshare companies). I've seen you mention both Surrey and Diamond Resorts. Those are two different companies although I believe both have points based reservations systems.

Another thing that we need to know is if part of the payments your parents are making are on loans attached to the purchase. When you mention 13.9% it sounds to me as if these weren't cash purchases but timeshares purchased on a monthly payment plan. 

So, to begin with, let's start with the basics of exactly what it is they own and what they're paying on. Are there multiple timeshare developements like Surrey Grand Carriage and The Suite's at Fall Creek (and potentially others) and are these timeshares paid in full or are they making monthly loan payments?

You mention 4 contracts ranging from 6,000 to 50,000 points. I'm thinking that they have at least one contract with Surrey. 50,000 points sounds correct for that group, and at least one contract with Diamond Resorts International or DRI (formerly Sunterra). 6,000 points sounds about right for DRI/Sunterra. 

Interval is only the exchange company that facilitates exchanges for timeshare developers. You parents only obligation to Interval should be a membership fee that allows them to exchange the resorts they own for other resort weeks through this exchange company. This should be an optional fee although I know that DRI adds on a memberhship fee to their program, which automatically includes the membership fee for Interaval.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2010)

teepeeca said:


> Under most conditions, I wouldn't recommend what I'm now going to.  If the contracts are just in your parent's names, and they are "getting up in years", and are on "fixed"/"limited" incomes, I would have them just "walk away"---stop paying anything.  (OF course, notify DRI and Surrey of exactly what they are doing.)  They might be "collection-proof"---meaning that bill collectors can't get, or collect on any judgements against them.
> 
> Have them, or if you have their POA, you tell the companies that your parents are willing to "return" the contracts/ownership to them, and they can keep all fees already paid.  If they don't agree, re-iterate that your parents will NOT pay anything more.  Of course, all of this is assuming that they don't care of what might be up on their credit report.
> 
> ...



While they may be "collection proof", my bet is their estate is not. When they pass away, colletors who have placed have valed debts can collect against the estate. This option should be discussed with an attorney.


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## ruthlb (Apr 27, 2010)

It appears you and your brother need sound legal advice, from an attorney that has experience with the timeshare industry.  I would call an attorney in your area, that deals with real estate matters, (if you don't know one, call a local title insurance agency, and ask the names of those that they are familiar with- or call a trusted real estate agent - both will have names) and ask this crucial question- what experience do you have with timeshare sales - and if you do not, please refer me to someone that has experience.  

Then take all the documents that your parents have to the attorney- and ask, just what do they have, and how can you get them rid of it all.  An experienced attorney should cost much less than this $2,000 you appear to have to pay yearly.  You and your parents need professional advice.


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## ilfarmboy (Apr 27, 2010)

*dougp26364*



dougp26364 said:


> Let's start with exactly where do they own? It sounds to me as if they potentially own with two or more developers (timeshare companies). I've seen you mention both Surrey and Diamond Resorts. Those are two different companies although I believe both have points based reservations systems.
> 
> Another thing that we need to know is if part of the payments your parents are making are on loans attached to the purchase. When you mention 13.9% it sounds to me as if these weren't cash purchases but timeshares purchased on a monthly payment plan.
> 
> ...



They currently have 4 different numbered trust account codes.  they are for four different times that they have either rolled from one point program into another or purchased new timeshares.  

They started out buying Surrey resort timeshares and then molded those into what they have today via upsales and other methods.  I believe that they came from II or RCI point systems into the DRI system that they have today.

They currently owe over 62,000 at 13.9% interest making payments of $970 per month on them.  I do not know if it is all 4 of them or just one or what?  I did get mom to get confirmation on what they currently owe.  The $7200 that we paid on one bill for MF was not the total, $9200 was the total so now there are fees and interest payments on unpaid MFs from 2010.  the other fees for the US Collection are as you said, about $500 for the Club, and other fees for the different collections, these would total about $1700-$2000 per year or less.  Which would be acceptable I guess without the $9400 in MFs and the mortgage payments...I know keep on dreaming.

Thanks for the advice thus far.  We are keeping our options open and will definitely be using points to pay MFs for 2011 and keeping our payments to a minimum for now until we are sure as to how we are going to move forward.

ILFarmBoy


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## dougp26364 (Apr 27, 2010)

ilfarmboy said:


> They currently have 4 different numbered trust account codes.  they are for four different times that they have either rolled from one point program into another or purchased new timeshares.
> 
> They started out buying Surrey resort timeshares and then molded those into what they have today via upsales and other methods.  I believe that they came from II or RCI point systems into the DRI system that they have today.
> 
> ...



All I can say is wow. It appears your parents are in pretty deep. I'm not certain there is an easy work around for this one. 

The first thing would be to attempt to get rid of that $62,000 at 13.9%. I can think of three ways to do this. 

1. file bankruptcy. That will discharge the debt completely so that it can't come back against the estate if they pass away before it's paid in full. 

2. Take out a second mortgage if possible at a lower interest rate.

3. Find a consumer credit counseling service (NOT one of the shister adds on T.V. but one of the non-profit groups availabe in most cities) and see if they can negotiate a lower interest rate and payments on your parents behalf. Often they're successful because the alternative to taking a lower interset rate and payment is to get nothing at all. 

Of these three options, only option two would allow them to keep their timesahares and use them. It doesn't sound to me as if keeping them is in their best interest right now. I'd be looking squarely at either options one or three. 

I don't know how much credit your parents need at their advanced age. Bankruptcy might not be as bad of an option as it would be for young families needing to buy homes or cars. I'd seek good professional advice before proceeding with a bankruptcy filing.

Consumer Credit Counseling Services (CCCS) can usually be found in the phone book if they're available where your parents live. Many years ago I went through an extremely rough spot with my finances. They are a non-profit organization that works with creditors to eliminate interest rates or drastically lowering them while putting the consumer on a payment schedule that allows a person to live within their means. They helped me pay off my debts and stay out of bankruptcy court, preserving my credit to some degree. Part of the agreement way back then was to cut up all credit cards and agree not to take on any additional debt while in repayment status. My step-daughter also managed to abuse credit cards a few years ago. CCCS helped her pay off her debts and preserve her credit to some degree (it still takes a big hit). She's since rebuilt her credit to a point where things aren't so bad. 

As to the MF issue, and it's a big one IMHO, the only way out is to get rid of those contracts. If they owe money against them, they probably can't do that. The only way I can think of would be to transfer the title's and the loans over to someone else. In this case, that would be you or other family members. Branson timeshares have a value of $0 to $100 on the resale market right now. I can get Surrey resort weeks for $1 on E-bay pretty easily. The Suite's at Fall Creek don't have much more value either. Since there are big loans on these timeshares, getting them out of your parents names would mean paying off the loans or, getting the bank to allow the loans to be transfered to another party. Since it's likely you're parents will default in some way on these loans, that might not be a difficult thing to do. Personally, I wouldn't advise taking on a 13.9% loan unless you just can't stand the thought of any of the other options you find. 

Of course you can just allow everything to default but, that means collections calls, potential lawsuit's and judgements that can affect your paretns et...... That's a lot of money in a bad economy for any bank to just write off as a bad debt. I can see the potential for judgements and/or liens against your parent property and potential estate settlement issues down the road. I wouldn't take that route blindly without getting good advice from a proffesional who knows the ropes. Any advice you get online, including mine, is worth what you're paying for it.......nothing. The advice you get here should only give you ideas on avenues to explore through someone who knows the laws in your state. 

Good luck. You've got some big issues to deal with.


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## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2010)

Owe $62,000 for use that is worth, maybe, $5000 resale. If there is anyway out then you need to find it for them. Continuing to pay for this is money completely thrown away.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 27, 2010)

*Standard Operating Procedure.*




teepeeca said:


> I have a feeling that your parents were "snookered" by a fast talking "BAS****" that was only looking out for $$$ that he/she would make !!!  That's reprehensible, in my opinion.


Shux, you've just described in a nutshell the basic biz. plan & biz. model of the entire full-freight timeshare-selling universe. 

Boiled down to essentials, it works like this *. . .*

1.  You have the money. 

2.  We want the money. 

3.  We fast-talk you into giving the money to us.

Any questions ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## winger (May 10, 2010)

AwayWeGo said:


> Shux, you've just described in a nutshell the basic biz. plan & biz. model of the entire full-freight timeshare-selling universe.
> 
> Boiled down to essentials, it works like this *. . .*
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, it really does not have to be this way for the most part. Timeshare as a product is a wonderful idea/concept for many many families/people to make good use of. It really should sell itself to some degree.  Unfortunately, like with most things in life, greed has played a good part in ruining the industry to a good degree.


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## pianodinosaur (May 10, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> All I can say is wow. It appears your parents are in pretty deep. I'm not certain there is an easy work around for this one.
> 
> The first thing would be to attempt to get rid of that $62,000 at 13.9%. I can think of three ways to do this.
> 
> ...



I think dougp26364 has summed up the financial issues very well.  I think you may wish to have your parents evaluated for dementia and consider getting power of attorney over their health and finances before another predator takes advantage of them.


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