# [ 2015 ] Westin Nanea on sale now



## tperez

All,

Just getting ready to check out from WPORV and thought I'd post about the owner's update we attended.  It turns out they have just started selling Nanea.  The resort will have two views:  Resort View and Ocean Front.  Ocean Front are the hammerheads at the end of the buildings like they have at WKORV and I recall they were the same amount of staroptions at the OF at WKORV.  At Nanea, there will not be any lockoffs, just 1bd, 2bd, and 3bd units.  Not surprisingly, the drawings of the resort looked great.

Also, they are selling HomeOptions.  What they presented us were the prices for blocks of 81,000, enough for a 1bd, which would convert 1:1 to staroptions if used elsewhere.  Price was about $31,000 for 81,000 homeoptions.  What we looked at were for Resort View so I'm not sure what the pricing would be for the Ocean Front.  The HomeOptions were supposed to allow greater flexibility in reserving back to back weeks, partial weeks, and stays beginning in the middle of the week.

Interestingly, because my wife and I own at WKORV and WKORV-N, they offered to purchase back some of our timeshares as part of a package to buy into Nanea.

Also, there wasn't any discussion at all about a Westin trust or Flex program or whether these HomeOptions would work at any other SVN property to get priority reservations.

That's about all I can remember.  We didn't buy into Nanea, but we did take the gift certificate and had dinner at the other Nanea... the restaurant here at WPORV


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## DeniseM

How much is the maintenance fee for 81K Homeoptions?

For future reference, a good way to collect data is to take pictures of documents and price lists when the sales person is out of the room, with your cell phone.


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## tperez

We didn't see any maintenance fee numbers because we never got that far in the presentation.  I have to say that the Starwood update is very refreshingly non-hard sell.  Once we said we weren't interested then we moved along pretty quickly, which was very appreciated.

I also own at Marriott and Diamond and have been to updates for each system very recently.  They are tortuous marathons.

Also, unfortunately we left our phones in the room so didn't get any pix.  Will have to remember that for next time!


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## jabak5

Interested in knowing if they quoted an "estimated" maintenance fee.

A SIDE NOTE, I always feel free to take a snapshot of documents, prices, whatever with my cell phone. In my opinion, you needn't wait until the salesperson is out of the room.  They are trying to sell you something.  It's not like top secret information.
I'm sure the sales person we bought our first Starwood Timeshare through was very happy we took snapshots of paperwork.  Yes, we did purchase through the developer (Starwood) We're happy and that's all that counts! We had the salespersons name on a photo when we decided we wanted to purchase 3 months later and worked with that salesperson so he would get the credit.


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## DeniseM

tperez said:


> I have to say that the Starwood update is very refreshingly non-hard sell.



This completely depends on which sales person you get - we've had both good and bad.


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## tperez

No, sorry didn't get an estimated MF either.  I should have thought about that but was so intrigued about this whole HomeOptions thing that it slipped my mind.  I kept looking for the "trust" (I experienced the Marriott change into a "trust") so didn't think about MF.  I was surprised not to hear any discussion at all about a trust.

One other thing I remember is that the Starpoints conversion was a little lower than what I get at WKORV or WKORV-N.  There I get about 46,000 starpoints (plus a 10% bump because of my 4* elite status) for a 1 BD.  Nanea was a very strange number, like 43,740 for the 81,000 HomeOptions conversion.


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## jabak5

DeniseM said:


> This completely depends on which sales person you get - we've had both good and bad.



I guess we have been very lucky.  Have been to about 7 (at WKORVN and WLR) have never had any pressure.  Some have even been informative and never more than 30 minutes.  On the other hand, attended a presentation for the new Hyatt on Maui in Nov. 2014 and it was extremely high pressure even after we said we weren't interested but just wanted so information on their system.  Keep us the entire 90 minutes.  That unsold us on Hyatt.


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## Lookingtobuy

DeniseM said:


> This completely depends on which sales person you get - we've had both good and bad.



I went today at wkorv to our owner update. They started selling 72 hrs ago. I asked about flex system. Sales rep said never heard of it. The new property is a deed. Your home options or flex options as they said are deeded to the property.  They offered us 85,000 to put us to elite and offered to retro our two bdrm eoy in the north for 32,700. Also said we can get 100,000 star points plus credit of our explorer package and gold status and couple of minor things. Maintenance fees were around $1400 yearly according to the second guy. We refused. Property is said to open in 2017. I asked if they would buy ours back and put it towards the new one. He said no. New resort is also voluntary. Salesperson also said something about being unable to resell it or no value to person buying it. Was designed that way. I am assuming he means since it is a voluntary resort you cannot go to other resorts. 

Kuljeet


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## okwiater

Sounds like they are following the WSJ-CV model for selling this resort. Very interesting how many flavors of ownership they are creating. It's amazing that anyone who isn't timeshare- and TUG-obsessed ever figures out how to use it.


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## capjak

Lookingtobuy said:


> I went today at wkorv to our owner update. They started selling 72 hrs ago. I asked about flex system. Sales rep said never heard of it. The new property is a deed. Your home options or flex options as they said are deeded to the property.  They offered us 85,000 to put us to elite and offered to retro our two bdrm eoy in the north for 32,700. Also said we can get 100,000 star points plus credit of our explorer package and gold status and couple of minor things. Maintenance fees were around $1400 yearly according to the second guy. We refused. Property is said to open in 2017. I asked if they would buy ours back and put it towards the new one. He said no. New resort is also voluntary. Salesperson also said something about being unable to resell it or no value to person buying it. Was designed that way. I am assuming he means since it is a voluntary resort you cannot go to other resorts.
> 
> Kuljeet



Do the options convert to star points?
How many star options for II exchanges?
Is 85,000 a 1 bedroom oceanfront?


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## ValleyGirl

tperez said:


> All,
> 
> Just getting ready to check out from WPORV and thought I'd post about the owner's update we attended.  It turns out they have just started selling Nanea.  The resort will have two views:  Resort View and Ocean Front.  Ocean Front are the hammerheads at the end of the buildings like they have at WKORV and I recall they were the same amount of staroptions at the OF at WKORV.  At Nanea, there will not be any lockoffs, just 1bd, 2bd, and 3bd units.  Not surprisingly, the drawings of the resort looked great.



 We will be at WPORV from 9/2-9/14(12 days), Caverns and Niihau diving 
Will attend owners update to try and get more complete info & pics of details.
May use my GoPro attached to my hat


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## okwiater

capjak said:


> Do the options convert to star points?
> How many star options for II exchanges?
> Is 85,000 a 1 bedroom oceanfront?



Most likely an Oceanfront 1-bedroom is 95,700 HomeOptions to align with the recent bump at the other Maui resorts. A non-Oceanfront 1-bedroom is likely 81,000 HomeOptions.

Similarly, HomeOptions can likely be converted to Starpoints by multiplying the HomeOptions by 0.54.


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## capjak

I also wonder if the MFs will be based on star options or deeded view?  If SOs than oceanfront would have higher MFs than Oceanview?


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## tschwa2

I don't think there will be a deeded view or a deeded size.  You are buying UDI home options.  MF will be based on Home option/Star option.


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## taterhed

tschwa2 said:


> I don't think there will be a deeded view or a deeded size. You are buying UDI home options. MF will be based on Home option/Star option.



How would that affect resale?  (still chuckling at salesman's 'worthless' comment)


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## DavidnRobin

Looks like tperez beat me to it...  was busy with friends and moving villas at WPORV.

I meet with Sales on Fri, and was able to get some info, but typical with Sales they trend to respond to questions with a question (very irritating)

As mentioned (in other thread) - Nanea will have 3 and 2Bd OF, and 2 and 1Bd Resort View (no LOs). The 1Bd is 840sqft.

They usually do not give out prices unless you intend to buy (and I wasn't), but got a price for a 2Bd OF since I was curious on how it compared to our 2Bd - price is $76K (Today! ), which is less than I thought they would be.

No detail on MFs - other other than 'comparable' to WKORV/N.  

They are selling HomeResort Options (much like WSJ-CV) where you can reserve any time period (8-12 months) based on the amount of options - and any check-in date (not limited to Fri-Sat-Sun check-in).

They did not leave any paperwork laying around - not that there was much.  Of course they had my VOIs for potential to exchange for Nanea, but didn't persue because I was not buying.

I did get video and photos of the animated flyby and resort drawings - which I will post when I can upload.

Not sure where other person got their info - but not selling as deeds, but more like WSJ-CV.

Sales comment:  Nanea is Voluntary and made it sound as if these are better for both seller and buyer - I called BS and backed up with facts (which they do not seem to appreciate)

As I was not on an official Owners Update (no spouse, no incentives) - I did not find them to be overly pushy, but I did find that their attitudes a bit annoying and condescending - like I was the problem with my pointed questions and how could I not buy (typical) - plus very rushed as I think they had some big fish biting. I was there to discuss something else - they mentioned that they just started selling Nanea.  If I were to buy Nanea it would only be for a 1Bd OF which they do not offer, and tried to sell me a 2Bd OF which I do not need (and not interested in a 1Bd resort view).


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## vacationtime1

DavidnRobin said:


> Looks like tperez beat me to it...  was busy with friends and moving villas at WPORV.
> 
> I meet with Sales on Fri, and was able to get some info, but typical with Sales they trend to respond to questions with a question (very irritating)
> 
> As mentioned (in other thread) - Nanea will have 3 and 2Bd OF, and 2 and 1Bd Resort View (no LOs).
> *They usually do not give out prices unless you intend to buy (and I wasn't), but got a price for a 2Bd OF since I was curious on how it compared to our 2Bd - price is $76K (Today! ), which is less than I thought they would be.*
> 
> No detail on MFs - other other than 'comparable' to WKORV/N.
> 
> They are selling HomeResort Options (much like WSJ-CV) where you can reserve any time period (8-12 months) based on the amount of options - and any check-in date (not limited to Fri-Sat-Sun check-in).
> 
> They did not leave any paperwork laying around - not that there was much.  Of course they had my VOIs for potential to exchange for Nanea, but didn't persue because I was not buying.
> 
> I did get video and photos of the animated flyby and resort drawings - which I will post when I can upload.



Do you recall whether the $76K was for a 2bd OF or a 2bd RV?

That seems about right for RV, but really low for OF.


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## vistana101

Here are the links to the updated floor plans:

One bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...s/SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/one.png

Two-bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...s/SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/two.png

Three-bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/three.png


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## krj9999

I'm kinda taken aback by the single sink in the bathroom for the 1BR, and only single sink in the 2nd bathroom for the 3BR layout (needing to support guests from 2 bedrooms).  FWIW.


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## DavidnRobin

vacationtime1 said:


> Do you recall whether the $76K was for a 2bd OF or a 2bd RV?
> 
> That seems about right for RV, but really low for OF.



I agree it seemed to be lower than I thought, but sales guy said 2Bd OF - but again this was Sales. Actual price written on big piece of paper was $75,981.
I was inquiring to know how it compared to WKORV OFD. When I asked why this was so different than the OFD paper 'price' ($124K) - no response other than to divert questioning.

Why do they always write big on a piece of paper when describing 'deals' - like an elementary school teacher?

They had an iPad with sizes, but the info was incorrect as it had same picture deformed all 3 floor plans (just 1 Bd floor plan) - so good to see links to floor plans.


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## GregT

vistana101 said:


> Here are the links to the updated floor plans:
> 
> One bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...s/SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/one.png
> 
> Two-bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...s/SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/two.png
> 
> Three-bed: https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...SVN2015/assets/img/nanea/floorplans/three.png



Wow, I'm surprised they only have kitchenettes and not full kitchens.  That lost countertop space is significant to me.  Will be curious to see if refrigerators are full size.

Interesting.

Best,

Greg


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## DavidnRobin

krj9999 said:


> I'm kinda taken aback by the single sink in the bathroom for the 1BR, and only single sink in the 2nd bathroom for the 3BR layout (needing to support guests from 2 bedrooms).  FWIW.




I agree - also will these extra bedrooms have King or Queen size beds - I suspect Queen size.  We are so used to King size, that sleeping on a Queen (like studio at WPORV) seems very confining.


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## lizap

'Never heard of FLEX system'.  Very interesting, indeed..




Lookingtobuy said:


> I went today at wkorv to our owner update. They started selling 72 hrs ago. I asked about flex system. Sales rep said never heard of it. The new property is a deed. Your home options or flex options as they said are deeded to the property.  They offered us 85,000 to put us to elite and offered to retro our two bdrm eoy in the north for 32,700. Also said we can get 100,000 star points plus credit of our explorer package and gold status and couple of minor things. Maintenance fees were around $1400 yearly according to the second guy. We refused. Property is said to open in 2017. I asked if they would buy ours back and put it towards the new one. He said no. New resort is also voluntary. Salesperson also said something about being unable to resell it or no value to person buying it. Was designed that way. I am assuming he means since it is a voluntary resort you cannot go to other resorts.
> 
> Kuljeet


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## okwiater

GregT said:


> Wow, I'm surprised they only have kitchenettes and not full kitchens.  That lost countertop space is significant to me.  Will be curious to see if refrigerators are full size.



First Coral Vista, now Nanea. Reducing the kitchen footprint does allow them to squeeze more "living space" into smaller units. Perhaps also, changing demographics make full kitchens less necessary than they once were?

I was once handed the wrong folio when checking out of Harborside and noticed that the occupants had purchased multiple (expensive) meals every single day of the stay. Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people don't use the kitchens other than to prepare breakfasts, a couple of casual meals, and frozen drinks. For those purposes, a kitchenette is totally fine.


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## DavidnRobin

GregT said:


> Wow, I'm surprised they only have kitchenettes and not full kitchens.  That lost countertop space is significant to me.  Will be curious to see if refrigerators are full size.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



This also is annoying - when asked questions like these - it always comes back to 'this is what our Owners prefer' - which is BS.  The kitchenettes do not have sufficient counter or cooking space - annoys Robin to no end.


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## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> I agree - also will these extra bedrooms have King or Queen size beds - I suspect Queen size.  We are so used to King size, that sleeping on a Queen (like studio at WPORV) seems very confining.



What basis do you have for "suspecting" Queen size? I realize the floorplans are not necessarily to scale, but the beds pictured in each bedroom are clearly King size.


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## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> This also is annoying - when asked questions like these - it always comes back to 'this is what our Owners prefer' - which is BS.  The kitchenettes do not have sufficient counter or cooking space - annoys Robin to no end.



Annoys Robin ≠ Annoys Most Owners


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## DeniseM

For those of us who rent our TS's at WKORV-N/S - I think the lack of kitchens at WKORV-NN is a plus for us, because having a full kitchen is one of the top things that renters are looking for.


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## GregT

Okay, looking a little bit more at the floor plans, some of the decisions are really surprising.   A couple observations:

1) the living area in the 3BR appears identical to the living area in the 2BR and 1BR -- surprised considering 3X the people could be staying in the unit

2) The 3BR appears to sacrifice space in the 2nd bedroom and 2nd bathroom to create the hallway for the 3rd bedroom

3) Still puzzled by the kitchenette

4) Appears that all bedrooms are larger beds -- no twins, or two full size in one of the bedrooms

This is more like HGVC Kingsland, where a third bedroom was bolted onto the basic 2BR floorplan, but even at KingsLand, the second bedroom had two full size beds.  I prefer the Maui Ocean Club approach where the 3BR unit is a significantly nicer unit itself then a 2BR, and not simply a 2BR with a third bedroom added on.

Kings Land also had one of these minimized kitchens and we noticed the lack of an island for food and drink prep.  We adjusted, but noticed it.

Will be interesting to see how well the 3BR unit "lives".

Best,

Greg


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## DavidnRobin

As to questions about Flex... remembering the source (Sales) - there is no plan for a HI Flex - that Flex was done to combine those low value East Coast VOIs. When asked why the increase in ROFR - it was typical response as to resell them for profit.  I did not buy it because they always had this available to them - when asked why now?  there response was that the resorts are now sold out.  When I stated that they have been effectively sold out for a while - no comeback - just diversion.

Importantly (for me) - I directly asked if owners with Nanea HOs will be able to compete with my OFD at 8-12 months.  Their response was 'No' - only Nanea at 8-12 months then as usual for <8 months.


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## DavidnRobin

okwiater said:


> Annoys Robin ≠ Annoys Most Owners



Right...women enjoy not having counter or cooking space. [sarcasm deleted]

jarta 2.0 seems to have emerged... [sarcasm intended...]


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## DavidnRobin

okwiater said:


> What basis do you have for "suspecting" Queen size? I realize the floorplans are not necessarily to scale, but the beds pictured in each bedroom are clearly King size.



They did EXACTLY that with pre-construction WKORVN - that is why.
Want to take bets that not all Bd will be Kings?  I will be around TUG in 2017 - will you?
Of course they show them to be same size - that is one of those things they can go back on.


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## DeniseM

When will they have models open?


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> When will they have models open?



Considering where they were in construction a couple of weeks ago - not for a while.


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## ThreeLittleBirds

We use the kitchen for almost every meal, but honestly, we are fine with the efficiency as we use the grill quite often.

That said, I am only fine with the efficiency if there is a fuller size fridge. We stayed at WKORV last year and the studio only had a dorm size fridge. That was unexpected (we stayed in a studio w/ a full before) and annoying.


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## ThreeLittleBirds

ThreeLittleBirds said:


> We use the kitchen for almost every meal, but honestly, we are fine with the efficiency as we use the grill quite often.
> 
> That said, I am only fine with the efficiency if there is a fuller size fridge. We stayed at WKORV last year and the studio only had a dorm size fridge. That was unexpected (we stayed in a studio w/ a full before) and annoying.



note:we live in a bungalow house built in 1920's. So are full time kitchen is very tiny. I would guess most have not adapted to such a small space and would be annoyed by lack of counterspace


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## DavidnRobin

Here you go... Animated Flyby for Nanea - enjoy

https://youtu.be/y9JKTbsiw3s


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## Mauiwmn

*Floor plans*

Other observations:

1.  The balcony for 1 bedrm and 2 bedrm appear to be the same size.
2.  Tub in 1 bedroom appears to be normal tub, tub in 2 and 3 bedm    masters show tub as oval and probably jetted.
3.  Smaller shower in 1 bedrm vs 2/3 bedrm masters.


As others have stated, the kitchenette in a major miss.  Hopefully, they will have full size refrigerators as that is a must for anything larger than a studio.  The 1 sink in 1 bedrm bath is a huge issue for us as well.

I am shocked at the low (relative term) purchase price of the 2 bedrm OF!  There must be a reason Starwood is charging such low prices in comparison to South.

Similar to David, I would only consider a 1 bedrm OF and since they do not offer it and the 1 bedrooms seem lacking many features, I am happy to say I have potentially saved a lot of money.  

I think the villas in North and South will continue to be superior units vs Nanea even though Nanea is shiny and new.  Most buyers probably won't take the time to compare the properties fully.  We will be at WKORV in Feb and should be able to see the overall layout of Nanea by then.


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## Mauiwmn

DavidnRobin said:


> Here you go... Animated Flyby for Nanea - enjoy
> 
> https://youtu.be/y9JKTbsiw3s



Great video!  Thanks for posting.


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## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> This also is annoying - when asked questions like these - it always comes back to 'this is what our Owners prefer' - which is BS. The kitchenettes do not have sufficient counter or cooking space - annoys Robin to no end.





			
				okwiater said:
			
		

> Annoys Robin ≠ Annoys Most Owners





DavidnRobin said:


> Right...women enjoy not having counter or cooking space. GFY.



You used Robin's preference for counter space as your evidence for the salesperson's claim about "what our Owners prefer" to be "BS" in your words.

I pointed out that what Robin likes doesn't necessarily equate to what the majority of Starwood's owners like, as a whole. In fact, in another post just above yours, I mused that perhaps it could be changing demographics.

You responded by telling me to pour myself a glass of concrete, to put it mildly.

I'm not really sure what I did to deserve the one-sided profanity-laced response, but it seems like you could stand to chill out a bit. Did the encounter with the sales guy get you worked up or something?


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## lizap

David, this appears to confirm what the original thinking on FLEX was (before all the speculation began).. This certainly makes more sense...




DavidnRobin said:


> As to questions about Flex... remembering the source (Sales) - there is no plan for a HI Flex - that Flex was done to combine those low value East Coast VOIs. When asked why the increase in ROFR - it was typical response as to resell them for profit.  I did not buy it because they always had this available to them - when asked why now?  there response was that the resorts are now sold out.  When I stated that they have been effectively sold out for a while - no comeback - just diversion.
> 
> Importantly (for me) - I directly asked if owners with Nanea HOs will be able to compete with my OFD at 8-12 months.  Their response was 'No' - only Nanea at 8-12 months then as usual for <8 months.


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## DavidnRobin

okwiater said:


> You used Robin's preference for counter space as your evidence for the salesperson's claim about "what our Owners prefer" to be "BS" in your words.
> 
> I pointed out that what Robin likes doesn't necessarily equate to what the majority of Starwood's owners like, as a whole. In fact, in another post just above yours, I mused that perhaps it could be changing demographics.
> 
> You responded by telling me to pour myself a glass of concrete, to put it mildly.
> 
> I'm not really sure what I did to deserve the one-sided profanity-laced response, but it seems like you could stand to chill out a bit. Did the encounter with the sales guy get you worked up or something?



Profanity laced - what?  not sure what you are talking about...
The BS was not directed at you - unless you work in SVO Sales - to which you decided to comment about.
You said Robin doesn't equal other people's opinions - I disagree - she is quite typical of the opinion of woman and desire to have adequate counter and cooking space - not sure what is wrong with that opinion (other than you disagree - which you could just state versus what you did write).
I should chill? I am not the one that starts with confrontation - you brought my wife into this - versus letting it go.  Which seems to be an issue.

We were just in a studio (WPORV) and the kitchenette is extremely limited in space - we used bathroom counter for coffee maker.  Others here  at WPORV made the same comment about the studio kitchenette - so not just Robin's opinion - I was using her comments as an example of others.  The previous week we used the 2Bd LO OFD - and that kitchenette is better for working with.

btw - I was not responding to any post made by you...  I was making my personal observations that you do not seem to agree with - which is fine... But...


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## DavidnRobin

Mauiwmn said:


> Great video!  Thanks for posting.



I have photos, but apparently PhotoBucket for iPad is no longer usable.


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## LisaRex

Some observations:

1) The flyby shows villas facing the highway/parking lot.  Yuck. If that's truly the case, I feel sorry for the front desk clerks who have to assign those rooms. 

2) The grounds, if they indeed are built as depicted, look absolutely beautiful, especially the main pool with its little coves.  Not sure I saw zero entry, though.

3) Kitchenettes are not ideal, but I could live with it if it was just my husband and me.  A family of four would be more difficult.  A small refrigerator would be a deal killer. 

4) I don't know why they'd put in a table that seats six in a one bedroom villa that (I assume) sleeps four.  Perhaps that will change. 

5) A thought crossed my mind.  Maybe they're not buying up ROFR inventory just to populate their flex program.  Perhaps they're exercising it so aggressively to boost up the resale prices so that the gap between resale and new is narrower.  If I was a prospective owner, resale prices at the resort next door would be the first thing I checked once I got back to my villa. 

6) I like that owners can reportedly choose their check-in and check-out days instead of sticking to a check-in day of Fri/Sat/Sun.  I think that spreading out the number of changeovers can only help housekeeping keep up with all the demand and make for delays in checking in on time.


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## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> Some observations:
> 
> 1) The flyby shows villas facing the highway/parking lot.  Yuck. If that's truly the case, I feel sorry for the front desk clerks who have to assign those rooms.
> 
> 2) The grounds, if they indeed are built as depicted, look absolutely beautiful, especially the main pool with its little coves.  Not sure I saw zero entry, though.
> 
> 3) Kitchenettes are not ideal, but I could live with it if it was just my husband and me.  A family of four would be more difficult.  A small refrigerator would be a deal killer.
> 
> 4) I don't know why they'd put in a table that seats six in a one bedroom villa that (I assume) sleeps four.  Perhaps that will change.
> 
> 5) A thought crossed my mind.  Maybe they're not buying up ROFR inventory just to populate their flex program.  Perhaps they're exercising it so aggressively to boost up the resale prices so that the gap between resale and new is closer.
> 
> 6) I like that owners can reportedly choose their check-in and check-out days instead of sticking to a check-in day of Fri/Sat/Sun.  I think that spreading out the number of changeovers can only help housekeeping keep up with all the demand and make for delays in checking in on time.



The kitchenette at WPORV has a relatively large refridgerator - same with the studio side of OFD WKORV - not full size, but quite roomy.  We (Robin) can live with it - but counter space and sink is lacking (IMO IMO IMO... To make sure people reading this knows this is IMO... )

I have always felt that if they needed to save space, then it should be the bathroom sizes.

I also think that the change to any checkin day is a good advantage for Nanea.
There are going to be quite a few villas at Nanea - perhaps why the video shows slow traffic.


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## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> Profanity laced - what?  not sure what you are talking about...



You said "GFY" -- maybe you misused the term or I misunderstood your point, but given the dismissive nature of your comment the intent seemed pretty clear.

Anyway, I wasn't intending to slight you or Robin's opinions, but you guys aren't going to buy at Nanea, so you're really not part of the market. The question is, do potential buyers of Nanea care all that much about having a kitchen vs. kitchenette? And I don't mean, do they care at all, but do they care enough to sway their purchasing decision? My guess is no.


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## DavidnRobin

What? Seriously, that is how you read that?
You responded to my post - not the other way - perhaps the 'chill' comment should be said in a mirror - I was just relating MY opinion - I did not bring you or your spouse into this...
perhaps you should go back and read the thread in sequence... Otherwise feel free to ignore me since you do not seem to agree with something that is my opinion.

Sales bought Nanea up - so I asked questions - none of them were about the kitchen. The kitchenette was brought up by others. Btw - I also said I was not interested up front to them because they did not offer a 1Bd OF - which I told them right away and still tried to sell me a 2Bd.

Please stop responding and making this thread tangential.


----------



## DeniseM

Here is a less testosterone ladened opinion.  

I don't believe a word they say about what consumers want (or much else) that a sales person regurgitates.

IMNSHO:  Kitchens are expensive - Starwood minimized the kitchens to save construction costs, and to encourage dining out at resort restaurants.


----------



## okwiater

DeniseM said:


> IMNSHO:  Kitchens are expensive - Starwood minimized the kitchens to save construction costs, and to encourage dining out at resort restaurants.



Could be, but in just a few short years the age of the median timeshare buyer has fallen from 52 to 39, with millennials making up 30% of purchasers. Is it a coincidence that millennials also eat out more than other demographic groups? Maybe a kitchen just isn't as important to the ones who will soon have the most purchasing power...


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Here is a less testosterone ladened opinion.
> 
> I don't believe a word they say about what consumers want.
> 
> Kitchens are expensive - Starwood minimized the kitchens to save construction costs.



There is likely something to this - I know there are people who do not use their kitchens/kitchenettes - versus us who load up at Costco and use the kitchens AND save tons of money.  While in Hanalei - stopped to get 2 fish tacos and 2 drinks - $50 w/tip...

btw - I was abiding by TUG rules... and certainty did not warrant such a response for sharing info and opinion.  How OK responds was reminding me of jarta (where I used to add IMO to everything...) - thus the 2.0 comment - unfortunately... and I certainly wasn't responding to OK when he brought Robin into the mix - versus just saying they disagree and that the small kitchen is perfect for them.

My initial comment was just that - Sales always seems to justify questionable decisions and never agrees with negative responses.  Like V Resorts work best for both sides, but when comparing WPORV and WKORV/N Resale prices and ROFR prices - silence, and changes conversation.  

I actually think the full kitchens are a bit too big - especially the cabinet space - too much open space. The Kitchen and Bathrooms of OFD are a bit too big (IMO), but we do find the foyer and hall for the OFD very useful - where others do not.


----------



## DeniseM

Hey Dave - If I thought you violated the rules, your post would be deleted.

For your consideration:  GFY had 2 meanings, and since okwiater is relatively new to _participating_ in this forum and doesn't know you well, he has no way of knowing which meaning you were using.

The "testosterone" comment was aimed at _both_ of you.  

Wouldn't jarta have a field day with this thread!


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Hey Dave - If I thought you violated the rules, your post would be deleted.
> 
> For your consideration:  GFY had 2 meanings, and since okwiater is relatively new to _participating_ in this forum and doesn't know you well, he has no way of knowing which meaning you were using.
> 
> The "testosterone" comment was aimed at _both_ of you.
> 
> Wouldn't jarta have a field day with this thread!



Oh - I see... Sorry I didn't intend it that way - nor did it cross my mind.  Apologies.  I will delete as that was not intended - the sarcasm was...

As you know - I met jarta (and wife) for drinks at WKORV a few years back, and he was much nicer in person - just challenged in BBS writing.

I was just relaying info and opinion - with good intentions as always...


----------



## DavidnRobin

Re: Prices - Sales doesn't like to give prices since they want people to come in to have chance to convince, justify, and sell.  I haven't met anyone who bought Nanea yet - but if I hear anything I will relate. Sales seemed very busy - we can still do Owners Update and get $100 incentive, but likely will not (unless it rains becomes bad).
I wasn't prepare to discuss Nanea - I was looking into buying fix/fix WPORV and see what was available and what they would offer. Not much... and lost the villa I want, but at least I have it for this week.


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds

I'm sure once I graduate, we will eat out more and support the demographic profile of a millennial.

I do know as a family we eat out much more than I did when I was a child. Eating out used to be reserved for special occasions, now it is usually out of laziness. So, going along with Denise's idea, it is a win/win for Starwood to have efficiency kitchens - inconvenient eating in = more eating out and creating that inconvenient kitchen costs less to build.

I'm interested in the voluntary vs. mandatory part. Why would this benefit Starwood? I guess if the only way to get SO's attached to your purchase is to buy from the developer, that makes sense. And I can see this being different for Hawaii vs. other areas. Did this work to Starwood's benefit for WPORV?

(p.s..I'm in total dissertation avoidance mode -- you all feel free to tell me to get back to work at any time instead of contemplating Hawaii TS purchases...lol)


----------



## DeniseM

Building voluntary resorts definitely benefits Starwood:

1)  HUGE sales point:  You can only get Staroptions and Starpoints by buying from the developer.

2)  When the resale market goes in the toilet because it's a voluntary resort (WPORV) they can buy resales for peanuts and resale them for full price.

My prediction:  We will never see another new mandatory resort from Starwood.


----------



## Mauiwmn

DeniseM said:


> IMNSHO:  Kitchens are expensive - Starwood minimized the kitchens to save construction costs, and to encourage dining out at resort restaurants.



BINGO!!!!

Limited kitchens encourage dining out, especially for large groups.
It would be difficult to prepare dinner for 8 people in the kitchenette of the 3 bedrm unit.

That said, I do think the kitchens in the 1 bedrm premiums at North and South are too big.  Too many cabinets and storage space.  
A kitchen just a bit smaller at Nanea would have been fine for us.  

Having the kitchenette and reduced cabinet space will translate to less cooking utensils and dishes in the unit.   We mainly eat breakfast and snacks at the villa but we do eat 2 or 3 dinners on the lanai to catch the sunset during a week's stay.  It is quite handy to have mixing bowls to toss a salad and platters, etc.  It will be interesting to see the inventory list for the Nanea villas, I imagine it will be sparse just due to space alone.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Building voluntary resorts definitely benefits Starwood:
> 
> 1)  HUGE sales point:  You can only get Staroptions and Starpoints by buying from the developer.
> 
> 2)  When the resale market goes in the toilet because it's a voluntary resort (WPORV) they can buy resales for peanuts and resale them for full price.
> 
> My prediction:  We will never see another new mandatory resort from Starwood.



Sales stated to me that they will no longer build M resorts, and that V resorts are better for both SW and the buyer. Why?  couldn't come up a reason other than they work better within SVO system, and that VOIs are not intended to be resold and meant to be passed onto family, or used to upgrade ownership as vacation needs change.  seriously... 

True - if WKORV/N were V resorts - they would have less resale value - thus cutting profit margin.  WPORV Sales told me they are actively using ROFR at HI resorts thus keeping their values higher - when I said this was not true for WPORV - silence... then diversion.


----------



## sgtdesi

DeniseM said:


> Building voluntary resorts definitely benefits Starwood:
> 
> My prediction:  We will never see another new mandatory resort from Starwood.



Just curious, was there a reason they ever had mandatory resorts?


----------



## taterhed

FWIW:   My 20 something daughter loves to cook on vaca.
 A small kitchen--not my cup 'o tea.

 Besides, the blender and ice and rum takes up so much space!


----------



## DeniseM

sgtdesi said:


> Just curious, was there a reason they ever had mandatory resorts?



Trial and error…


----------



## sgtdesi

DeniseM said:


> Trial and error…



Ahh... I did a presentation at Westin Riverfront a couple of years ago and I asked if the resort was a mandatory resort. The sales guys' face actually started twitching and he asked how I new about that in a very confrontational way. I didn't know if there was some other reason for the mandatory resorts that they didn't want people to know about...LOL.


----------



## grgs

Does anyone know what the occupancy limits will be for Nanea?  Given the bedding in the floorplans, I'm wondering if it will be:

1 bedroom: 4
2 bedroom: 6
3 bedroom: 8

Or, will the 2 bedroom match WKORV/N and allow an occupancy of 8 (an possibly 10 for athe 3 bedroom).  If so, will they have a bunch of rollaways on hand?


----------



## Mauiwmn

StarOptions

Any speculation on SO values for Nanea?  I think only one villa size has been reported, 81,000 for 1 bedrm resort view.

Here is my SO guess:

1 bedrm resort-81,000
2 bedrm resort-148,100

2 bedrm OF-176,700
3 bedrm OF-257,700

It seems like a huge jump for the 3 bedrm which is not a LO but I think 196,900 is too low.  These values keep Nanea more in line with Coral Vista.

Hopefully, we can get the actual data.  They have not even updated the SO chart for the Maui OF bump which was announced 10 days ago.


----------



## DeniseM

sgtdesi said:


> Ahh... I did a presentation at Westin Riverfront a couple of years ago and I asked if the resort was a mandatory resort. The sales guys' face actually started twitching and he asked how I new about that in a very confrontational way. I didn't know if there was some other reason for the mandatory resorts that they didn't want people to know about...LOL.



Originally, Starwood acquired the vast majority of their timeshares by buying existing resorts from other developers.  

Then they built WKORV N/S - mandatory.  Developers do not build timeshares with the resale market in mind.  Their whole focus was on developer sales.  

Over time, as they saw what happened with the resale market, it became absolutely clear that it was not in their best interest to build any more M resorts, and after WKORV-N/S, they didn't


----------



## DavidnRobin

Mauiwmn said:


> StarOptions
> 
> Any speculation on SO values for Nanea?  I think only one villa size has been reported, 81,000 for 1 bedrm resort view.
> 
> Here is my SO guess:
> 
> 1 bedrm resort-81,000
> 2 bedrm resort-148,100
> 
> 2 bedrm OF-176,700
> 3 bedrm OF-257,700
> 
> It seems like a huge jump for the 3 bedrm which is not a LO but I think 196,900 is too low.  These values keep Nanea more in line with Coral Vista.
> 
> Hopefully, we can get the actual data.  They have not even updated the SO chart for the Maui OF bump which was announced 10 days ago.




I have these - took photo, but seemed to have lost PhotoBucket which was great for copying photos to TUG.

Here they are: (You are correct...)
3Bd OF - 257.7K HomeResort Options
2Bd OF - 176.7K
2Bd RV - 148.1K
1Bd RV - 81K

Added - as the 2Bd OF is ~$76K - can probably calculate others based on $/HO


----------



## Mauiwmn

DavidnRobin said:


> I have these - took photo, but seemed to have lost PhotoBucket which was great for copying photos to Tuc.
> 
> Here they are:
> 3Bd OF - 257.7K HomeResort Options
> 2Bd OF - 176.7K
> 2Bd RV - 148.1K
> 1Bd RV - 81K



Great!  Good to know.


----------



## Criselda

I am very much a newbie to timeshare and just attended a sales presentation on the Wesin Nanea and purchased a 1 bedroom week.  We still have a few days to cancel if its not a good deal and would really appreciate the forums help in making this decision - you folks know your way around this minefield!

Here's what we paid:
1 bedroom resort view $30,780.  The total annual costs starting in 2017 will be about $1400 which also includes the annual Starwood/SPG membership fees.  For this we have 81,000 SVO points and can every other year convert these to 43,740 SPG points.  We received 100,000 SPG points signing bonus and the right to purchase 90,000 SPG points for $1875.  We can purchase these additional points 4 times for a total of 360,000 points for $7,500.  We also will be Gold status for life as part of the deal.

Unfortunately, it looks like our ownership is "voluntary" so if we sold our interest the ability to transfer points to their SPG program would not transfer to the new owner.  Seems like this is a way to protect their retail sales by devaluing the after market sales.

Please help us decide - should we bail or stay?

Thanks in advance for your help!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

grgs said:


> Does anyone know what the occupancy limits will be for Nanea?  Given the bedding in the floorplans, I'm wondering if it will be:
> 
> 1 bedroom: 4
> 2 bedroom: 6
> 3 bedroom: 8
> 
> Or, will the 2 bedroom match WKORV/N and allow an occupancy of 8 (an possibly 10 for athe 3 bedroom).  If so, will they have a bunch of rollaways on hand?



Hi Glorian - the occupancy for 1Bd is 4 based on photo of 1Bd layout I have.  Their iPad layouts for the 2- and 3- Bd were incorrect (still showed 1Bd).  I would assume the 2Bd will be 6 and 8 for 3Bd (2/Bd plus 2 for pullout).


----------



## DeniseM

I will give Starwood credit for one thing at WKORV-NN.  They have finally learned their lesson about view designations.

WKORV-N:  Designated some crappy views as Ocean Front.

WPORV:  Designate Oceanfront views as Island View and lumped them in with all the rest of them.

These are 2 of Starwood's more spectacular failures.


----------



## DeniseM

Criselda said:


> Please help us decide - should we bail or stay?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!!



You should absolutely bail - WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

This SAME offer will be available next week, next month, and next year.  So, after doing your research, if you decide you want it after all, you can absolutely still buy it later.

*But if you don't rescind NOW - you will never have another opportunity to get out for free.  *

You will be paying big bucks, and interest, for an ownership which you could only re-sale for 10% of what you paid for it - maybe.

You should rescind, and then explore the resale market, take your time, with no pressure, and make an informed decision.

We can help with that!  

*REALLY IMPORTANT POINT:  DON'T GO BACK TO THE SALES OFFICE, OR CALL THEM, OR TALK TO THEM - PERIOD!!!!
*
You should follow the instructions in your purchase documents exactly, to *rescind in writing, by mail.*

The sales office will NOT HELP YOU.  They will go into over-drive to protect their commission, and talk you out of it.  They will say whatever it takes, to bring you back in the fold.


----------



## Mauiwmn

Am I missing something on the floor plans?  It seems very pricey to charge 257,700 SO for the Nanea 3 bedrm OF when all it adds is a 3rd bedrm and a larger balcony.  That's all you get for 81,000 SO.  No 3rd bathroom, no larger table or living space.  

Starwood is most likely charging nearly 46% more for the 3 bedrm OF vs the 2 bedrm OF if it is sold by price of home flex option. That would make the 3 bedroom OF around $110,800.

And that price is the reason they have kept WKORV-N prices up via ROFR, IMHO.  They can position the Nanea 3 bedrm OF as a better value vs the South -2 Bedrm LO OF selling at $110,000-$124,000.  And doesn't the North 2 bedroom LO-OF sell for around $78,000 by Starwood?  This is very close in price to the Nanea 2 bedrm OF at $76,000.

I think the Nanea 1 bedrm RV is a better value at 81,000 for what you get space wise in that phase.  They were very strategic not to offer any 1 bedrm OF villas IMHO.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Remember - pre-construction layouts can change (they state this is their disclaimers) - and usually not for the better. (IMO)


----------



## Mauiwmn

*MF's*

And here is the real kicker IMHO:

MF's.   If MF's are options based and the MF for 81,000 SO is $1250 
(subtracted SVO fee/rounded), these are probable MF's at Nanea.

Approx MF, no SVN fees.

1 Bedrm RV-$1,250
2 Bedrm RV-$2,220
2 Bedrm OF-$2,650
3 Bedrm OF-$3,975-WOW***


----------



## YYJMSP

DavidnRobin said:


> We (Robin) can live with it - but counter space and sink is lacking (IMO IMO IMO... To make sure people reading this knows this is IMO... )



We agree with you on the counter space issue, after our WSJ-CV experience last month.  We don't cook, but there wasn't even enough space to make coffee and snacks at the same time, or even have somewhere to put something down as you took it out of the fridge...


----------



## YYJMSP

sgtdesi said:


> Ahh... I did a presentation at Westin Riverfront a couple of years ago and I asked if the resort was a mandatory resort. The sales guys' face actually started twitching and he asked how I new about that in a very confrontational way. I didn't know if there was some other reason for the mandatory resorts that they didn't want people to know about...LOL.



If you know the terms mandatory and voluntary, you're probably on TUG, and are therefore not going to buy anything from the developer, which starts the salesperson meltdown...


----------



## Criselda

Thank you Denise!
This is what we thought - there's a reason they give all those incentives to get us in the door...  We are back on the mainland and have until midnight Sept 3rd for them to receive our written cancellation.  We've already signed it and its going in the mail (certified) tomorrow!


----------



## DeniseM

Criselda said:


> Thank you Denise!
> This is what we thought - there's a reason they give all those incentives to get us in the door...  We are back on the mainland and have until midnight Sept 3rd for them to receive our written cancellation.  We've already signed it and its going in the mail (certified) tomorrow!



One correction:  The deadline is the MAILING deadline - it doesn't matter when they receive it.  Just be sure you use a trackable method to mail it, so you have proof.


----------



## lizap

Good decision.  You'd be many times better off to buy one of the 2 adjacent Westin resorts as you can buy them resale with SOs.




Criselda said:


> Thank you Denise!
> This is what we thought - there's a reason they give all those incentives to get us in the door...  We are back on the mainland and have until midnight Sept 3rd for them to receive our written cancellation.  We've already signed it and its going in the mail (certified) tomorrow!


----------



## DavidnRobin

YYJMSP said:


> If you know the terms mandatory and voluntary, you're probably on TUG, and are therefore not going to buy anything from the developer, which starts the salesperson meltdown...



Our VOI paperwork - that Sales pulls up for Owner Updates - states the term Mandatory.  Didn't see the term Voluntary, but didn't see our WPORV sheet.

I find that Sales can be confrontational when you come in with knowledge, but they do not seem to care about Tuggers since they know we represent <1% of Owners. Over many years, at our resorts, I do not think I have ever met a SVO Owner that knew about TUG.

Salespeople definitely read SVO TUG, but never admit to it (IMO) - this is speculation on my part, but their body language is telling when the topic is brought up.  They would be crazy as Sales Professionals not to keep up on TUG threads.  I usually tell them upfront that I am on TUG and will be relating info to others (not in a bad way). For example, I asked for the Nanea price to share with others, and how Nanea will be working so I could share - they do not seem to mind (to a point).


----------



## pathways25

*Confused about pricing*

I've seen two price references in this thread so far.  tperez and Criselda both indicated that 81,000 home options came in at $30,780.  That would suggest a price of .38 cents per option.  Davld later indicated that a OF 2BR would be about $76,000 which would be more like .43 cents per option.

As I understand it, there won't be any more deeded view lines in WKORVNN, right?  Doesn't that mean that if you want a 2BR OF, you just buy more Home Options?  Based on the reported pricing, it almost seems like they're charging 0.38 cents per option for resort view and 0.43 cents per option for ocean front.

Can someone who's just gone (or about to go) to an update relay the correct pricing?

Thanks!


----------



## Criselda

Definitely the price for RV is .38 per SVO, we have the sheets for:

1 Bdrm $30,780 = 81,000 SVO
2 Bdrm $56,278 = 148,100 SVO

Sorry, they gave us a price somewhere in the $75K range for OV, but didn't get the sheet or pay attention to the SVO.  Now we are starting to learn about these things...


----------



## pathways25

Criselda said:


> Definitely the price for RV is .38 per SVO, we have the sheets for:
> 
> 1 Bdrm $30,780 = 81,000 SVO
> 2 Bdrm $56,278 = 148,100 SVO
> 
> Sorry, they gave us a price somewhere in the $75K range for OV, but didn't get the sheet or pay attention to the SVO.  Now we are starting to learn about these things...



Interesting...  I wonder if that means that OF home options will be segregated?

Can you post a pdf of the price sheets?


----------



## okwiater

Mauiwmn said:


> And here is the real kicker IMHO:
> 
> MF's.   If MF's are options based and the MF for 81,000 SO is $1250
> (subtracted SVO fee/rounded), these are probable MF's at Nanea.
> 
> Approx MF, no SVN fees.
> 
> 1 Bedrm RV-$1,250
> 2 Bedrm RV-$2,220
> 2 Bedrm OF-$2,650
> 3 Bedrm OF-$3,975-WOW***



WOW - That was my reaction as well, when I saw the MF for the 1-bedroom. 257,700 options at WSJ Bay Vista is only $2,400...


----------



## YYJMSP

DavidnRobin said:


> Our VOI paperwork - that Sales pulls up for Owner Updates - states the term Mandatory.  Didn't see the term Voluntary, but didn't see our WPORV sheet.



I've seen indications of developer vs resale (can't remember the exact words they had written down), but I don't recall anything being marked as mandatory (but I wasn't looking in that much detail).  Definitely showed what price was paid (by the original buyer in the case of our resales) and the SO/SPG rates for each VOI.



DavidnRobin said:


> I find that Sales can be confrontational when you come in with knowledge, but they do not seem to care about Tuggers since they know we represent <1% of Owners. Over many years, at our resorts, I do not think I have ever met a SVO Owner that knew about TUG.



I don't think we've ever had an overly unfriendly salesperson, but there were definitely some who get a little worked up when it becomes obvious we aren't there to buy something new.  I keep telling them, it's an update, so update me on what's new...

Half the fun is listening to the stuff they obviously make up on the spot as they're talking.



DavidnRobin said:


> Salespeople definitely read SVO TUG, but never admit to it (IMO) - this is speculation on my part, but their body language is telling when the topic is brought up.  They would be crazy as Sales Professionals not to keep up on TUG threads.  I usually tell them upfront that I am on TUG and will be relating info to others (not in a bad way).



At WSJ, the salesperson asked within 2 minutes if I was on TUG and what my handle was.  He actually wrote it down on the sheet of paper he was working from.  We ran in to him the next day in the lobby, chatted for a few minutes, and it was obvious he'd been reading what I'd been posting.


----------



## YYJMSP

pathways25 said:


> Interesting...  I wonder if that means that OF home options will be segregated?



I thought the point of HO's was that you could use them for whatever booking you wanted to make (check-in, duration, unit type, etc), so it wouldn't make sense to have different classes of HO's.

With the way they're packaging them, I would assume you just get more HO's based on what you "buy", since it has to line up with enough to book that unit type, etc.  I assume you can't just buy some random amount of HO's at some price per point?

If you buy a "OF 2BR" package, it comes with enough HO's to book that unit type for a week.  If you buy a "RV 2BR" package, it comes with enough HO's to book that unit type for a week, or enough to book say 5nts in a 2BR OF unit type instead (or whatever the math comes out to) at 8mos out.  And on the other side, the OF purchaser could instead choose to book say 10nts in a 2BR RV unit type instead (or whatever the math comes out to). at 8mos out  Or book lots of nights in a 1BR unit (more nights in the RV vs. OF) at 8mos out, etc, etc, etc...

My mind is just spinning wondering if they've gotten the IT sorted out correctly to book properly with all the combinations available.


----------



## DavidnRobin

pathways25 said:


> Interesting...  I wonder if that means that OF home options will be segregated?
> 
> Can you post a pdf of the price sheets?



That must be why they had 2 shaded HOs listings with same amount of HOs on each - I figured it was a mistake like the floor layout (saw this on their iPad). They have to separate them - they are selling 2 different views with different pricing.  What it may mean is at one maybe able to pickup OF at 8 months if available (low season) using non-OF options, or early in the Resort occupancy.

Added - I definitely saw Mandatory at bottom of my VOI Info sheets.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Criselda said:


> Definitely the price for RV is .38 per SVO, we have the sheets for:
> 
> 1 Bdrm $30,780 = 81,000 SVO
> 2 Bdrm $56,278 = 148,100 SVO
> 
> Sorry, they gave us a price somewhere in the $75K range for OV, but didn't get the sheet or pay attention to the SVO.  Now we are starting to learn about these things...



The OF 2Bd was ~$76K


----------



## DavidnRobin

okwiater said:


> WOW - That was my reaction as well, when I saw the MF for the 1-bedroom. 257,700 options at WSJ Bay Vista is only $2,400...



That was my reaction as well - not sure if it is correct. Cost a lot to maintain a TS on StJ even compared to Maui, and they cut taxes by eliminating LOs (their words).


----------



## jabak5

*Westin nanea*



Criselda said:


> I am very much a newbie to timeshare and just attended a sales presentation on the Wesin Nanea and purchased a 1 bedroom week.  We still have a few days to cancel if its not a good deal and would really appreciate the forums help in making this decision - you folks know your way around this minefield!
> 
> Here's what we paid:
> 1 bedroom resort view $30,780.  The total annual costs starting in 2017 will be about $1400 which also includes the annual Starwood/SPG membership fees.  For this we have 81,000 SVO points and can every other year convert these to 43,740 SPG points.  We received 100,000 SPG points signing bonus and the right to purchase 90,000 SPG points for $1875.  We can purchase these additional points 4 times for a total of 360,000 points for $7,500.  We also will be Golstatus for life as part of the deal.
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks like our ownership is "voluntary" so if we sold our interest the ability to transfer points to their SPG program would not transfer to the new owner.  Seems like this is a way to protect their retail sales by devaluing the after market sales.
> 
> Please help us decide - should we bail or stay?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!!


This is probably be one of the most important response to all repies.......RECIND!!!!
This is coming from someone who has bought 2 EOY STARWOODS.  WKOFN AND WLR both 2 bedroom LO, 148k staroptions each.  Both were bought via the developer (I know, I know) WKOFN is mandatory WLR is voluntary.  We are happy with both and happy we bought and happy with HOW and what we bought.  We love our place at WLR and of course love WKOFR.  WLR(voluntary) WKOFR(mandatory). We purchased these as this is where we love to go, other than our get away 2nd home at Lake Tahoe, CA which is truly home away from home.
The bonus starpoints which we got with the developer purchase allowed us to take trip (not vacation) that we will never forget, absolutely fabulous.  Financially did it make sense with what paid for our purchase .....I'm sure not, was it worth it ABSOLUTELY! 
Our first purchase was WKOFR and we did not purchase at time of presentation....we passed.  We did purchase the explorer package as we thought we might buy and even if we didn't we'd be forced to a prepaid vacation.  (sometimes we need to be forced) 
3 months later, we decided we wanted to purchase.  Same offer was available. SURPRISE.  Were glad with what we did but it is different for everyone.  Sometimes we just need a push and now we say....we are paying for it....we have to go.   Love it!

IMO....if I would to buy resale, I would only go with Mandatory.  Only for the use of Staroptions.   I'd totally ignore Starpoints as I don't think the exchange for MF is normally worth it.

Best of luck with your decision.  No matter what anyone has to say, it's a personal preference and decision.  Usuall your gut reaction/decision is the best.
Do what you are comfortable with and be happy.
FYI....when I purchase something, I'm not looking at reselling it, I just think that it may hold a little (very little) value.


----------



## Lookingtobuy

capjak said:


> Do the options convert to star points?
> How many star options for II exchanges?
> Is 85,000 a 1 bedroom oceanfront?



They do convert to star options. Little less than usual. Can't remember exact. That was for one bdrm resort view. Not sure about II exchange


----------



## Lookingtobuy

capjak said:


> I also wonder if the MFs will be based on star options or deeded view?  If SOs than oceanfront would have higher MFs than Oceanview?



Fees are based on star options according to our sales rep


----------



## DavidnRobin




----------



## DavidnRobin




----------



## taterhed

This is better than the last mission impossible....


----------



## ValleyGirl

DavidnRobin said:


>



I love how they conveniently show property to the North with nothing built on it :annoyed:

However to the South there is the "park" and "drainage ditch"
So maybe partially accurate or accidently posted mirror image


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds

If the points are listed for weeks 1-52, does that mean HomeOptions would work for weeks 51 and 52, meaning those would not be sold as event weeks?


----------



## grgs

The chart David posted above shows that some weeks "may be sold exclusively as "Event Period or Specific Week VOIs," and that availability may be limited for those weeks.


----------



## lizap

Wonder if they are disclosing the sewage smell issue?


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


>



This is a really long walk to your car, especially for that OF owner.....I don't recall WKORV-N being as long a walk, am I correct?

Are these six stories tall?  If so, only the top stories will clear the palm trees, so hopefully they will minimize the trees.

Interesting to see the birth of a new property, it has been awhile.

Best,

Greg


----------



## DTD1990

What about banking and borrowing?  The FLEX program does not allow this.  Is this the same for Nanea - another reason maybe to avoid Homeoptions vs Staroptions.


----------



## lizap

Comments from a salesperson (see David's earlier post 30) indicate that this resort is not part of FLEX.



DTD1990 said:


> What about banking and borrowing?  The FLEX program does not allow this.  Is this the same for Nanea - another reason maybe to avoid Homeoptions vs Staroptions.


----------



## DTD1990

lizap said:


> Comments from a salesperson (see David's earlier post 30) indicate that this resort is not part of FLEX.



I realize that it is not part of FLEX, but it is a points program, hence the sale of homeoptions vs. staroptions.  My question then as to those who have attended the Nanea presentation is whether you can bank and borrow Nanea homeoption points?


----------



## okwiater

DTD1990 said:


> I realize that it is not part of FLEX, but it is a points program, hence the sale of homeoptions vs. staroptions.  My question then as to those who have attended the Nanea presentation is whether you can bank and borrow Nanea homeoption points?



No, you cannot. HomeOptions cannot be banked; however, they DO automatically convert to StarOptions which CAN be banked. The catch is that StarOptions are for SVN bookings (8 months or less) and lose your home resort priority.


----------



## Sicnarf

okwiater said:


> No, you cannot. HomeOptions cannot be banked; however, they DO automatically convert to StarOptions which CAN be banked. The catch is that StarOptions are for SVN bookings (8 months or less) and lose your home resort priority.



Don't you lose home resort priority anytime you bank for any resort anyway?
I think for all intent and purposes, Homeoptions is just like Staroptions except you can book any number of days and check-in any days even during your home resort period whereas you can only check-in Fri-Sat-Sun and must stay at least 1 week for mandatory resorts.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Sicnarf said:


> Don't you lose home resort priority anytime you bank for any resort anyway?
> I think for all intent and purposes, Homeoptions is just like Staroptions except you can book any number of days and check-in any days even during your home resort period whereas you can only check-in Fri-Sat-Sun and must stay at least 1 week for mandatory resorts.



^^^^ this ^^^^

but not just mandatory resorts - really the new system of which (to add to the confusing - purposeful?) there are 3 that have emerged (IMO)
Options based on Flex system of resorts 
HomeOptions based on Season - like WSJ-CV
HomeOptions based on View - like Nanea (WKORV-NN)

We are going to need more acronyms soon... 

As to the ability for view-based HomeOptions (e.g. Nanea) being used at 8-12 months for other resorts that have weekly-intervals...? Or, season-based HomeOptions (eg. CV) being used at 8-12 months for the other season?  Nope... like selling more intervals than actual inventory
IMO


----------



## Ken555

Sicnarf said:


> I think for all intent and purposes, Homeoptions is just like Staroptions except you can book any number of days and check-in any days even during your home resort period whereas you can only check-in Fri-Sat-Sun and must stay at least 1 week for mandatory resorts.




Are you sure? With the changes in the last couple of years you don't need to stay a full week at any SVN property and may checkin/out on any day. I've been making multiple four and five night stays, starting any day of week, for example. There no longer is any requirement for a particular checkin day using StarOptions at any SVN resort.

I'm at WKORV-N in building 7 this week with a great view of the water...and the new construction. They told me I shouldn't hear the construction inside the unit, but the noise is audible. Not sure which I would prefer: construction noise or very early morning children yellowing by the pirate pool...

Update: sorry, I now see you referred to home resort period. I think that does still have the week long minimum stay requirement. Oops!

Sent from my iPad


----------



## DeniseM

Hi Ken - The difference is that with conventional home resort reservations, you can only reserve 7 nights, and only check in on Fri/Sat/Sun - during your home resort period.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> I'm at WKORV-N in building 7 this week with a great view of the water...and the new construction. They told me I shouldn't hear the construction inside the unit, but the noise is audible. Not sure which I would prefer: construction noise or very early morning children yellowing by the pirate pool...



Children yellowing - funny autocorrect...
While at WKORV we had a child 'browning' the main pool which closed it for hours.  Then, same thing at WPORV - they had to close and 'refresh' the main pool for hours (sending kids down to Cliffs pool). Never understood how those pool diapers were suppose to prevent fecal matter from leaking out?  Maybe they should start charging a clean fee? Don't start me with diapered kids in the hot tubs.  This is why I prefer being in the ocean with the fish poop...


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> Don't start me with diapered kids in the hot tubs.



Ugh...did you have to bring that up?    We were having such a nice conversation about the new timeshare.......

Starwood called me this afternoon to try to sell me a SheratonFlex promotion.  I asked lots of questions on Nanea and WPoipu.  They were very puzzled by my enthusiasm (and sadly, I have learned more from this board then from their vague answers).

Best,

Greg


----------



## DavidnRobin

GregT said:


> Ugh...did you have to bring that up?    We were having such a nice conversation about the new timeshare.......
> 
> Starwood called me this afternoon to try to sell me a SheratonFlex promotion.  I asked lots of questions on Nanea and WPoipu.  They were very puzzled by my enthusiasm (and sadly, I have learned more from this board then from their vague answers).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Sorry - I was laughing at the 'yellowing' that is too perfect for the pirate pool.

Nanea is so much more interesting than the SheratonFlex and pool closures due to brown water.

Speaking of brown water - the water outside Nanea has no reef to speak off (and is next to the overflow for the wastewater reclaimation) - those folks are going to be added to the beach outside WKORVN and trickle down to WKORV.  I think this is a big downside for owning Nanea (more than kitchenettes and Queen beds) is the lack of reef outside for snorkeling. IMO


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> Speaking of brown water - the water outside Nanea has no reef to speak off (and is next to the overflow for the wastewater reclaimation) - those folks are going to be added to the beach outside WKORVN and trickle down to WKORV.  I think this is a big downside for owning Nanea (more than kitchenettes and Queen beds) is the lack of reef outside for snorkeling. IMO



This is an interesting point -- IMO, one of the benefits that WKORV has over MOC is that the beach in front of MOC is pretty bad.  It's very rocky and not that conducive to swimming, whereas WKORV is terrific.  Whenever we want a beach day, we end up walking somewhere.  It sounds like Nanea may have the same problem, and it's a bit of a pain lugging all your stuff 100 yards (note: first world problem).

With respect to the sewage, I think HGVC owners have a similar issue for the new HGVC Maui that is going to be built down in Kihei.  Apparently the discharge pipe is very close to their beach, which is modest in size.

We may find that the current properties remain the jewels.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Syed

I am curious if a Westin Nanea purchaser can rescind their offer, after the 7 day right to cancel, since seller cannot deliver title until the unit being purchased has been built and the Notice of Completion has been filed, before deeds can be recorded.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Syed said:


> I am curious if a Westin Nanea purchaser can rescind their offer, after the 7 day right to cancel, since seller cannot deliver title until the unit being purchased has been built and the Notice of Completion has been filed, before deeds can be recorded.



Hi Syed - looked for you while we were in Lahaina a couple of weeks ago- but couldn't find your location.  Just wanted to say hello.  I meet someone at the pool here at WPORV buying WKORV OFD from you.  He gave me an update of the current ROFR for OFD. Why do you think they are exercising at these prices?

I would love to asked that question during an Owners Update just to see the WTF look on their face... you make an excellent point.  Even selling pre-construction there is an associated deed. Wonder how WSJ-CV did it - there must be something in the contract Iassume.


----------



## Syed

Aloha David,
My office is at the Maui Showcase Properties in the Lahaina Cannery Mall. Do stop in and say hello the next time you are on Maui.

The ROFR numbers have come down recently, which is not unusual. In the summer of 2014 Starwood lowered their buy back numbers and then sharply increased them last February, when they announced the construction of the Westin Nanea and the Points program. It will be interesting to see if the ROFR numbers will change with the start of the new villas sales program.


----------



## Ken555

Syed said:


> I am curious if a Westin Nanea purchaser can rescind their offer, after the 7 day right to cancel, since seller cannot deliver title until the unit being purchased has been built and the Notice of Completion has been filed, before deeds can be recorded.




When I bought Mission Hills North it was for just $1,000 deposit and the balance due when they had their occupancy certificate (or similar). I received a refund when I canceled a year or so later when they canceled the project (and I rejected their then reasonable offer of $21,000 for an EOY at WKORV). Perhaps they are doing something similar for Nanea with a modest payment now and the balance due in the future. I don't know if California law is different in this regard than Hawaii, tho.

FYI, I was able to cancel the purchase at any time I wanted up until the point the balance was due for any reason.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> Children yellowing - funny autocorrect...




Wow, yeah. I usually proof my posts but this slipped by. I think I typed that while enjoying breakfast at Castaway this morning. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## okwiater

Sicnarf said:


> I think for all intent and purposes, Homeoptions is just like Staroptions except you can book any number of days and check-in any days even during your home resort period whereas you can only check-in Fri-Sat-Sun and must stay at least 1 week for mandatory resorts.



That statement is actually quite misleading because HomeOptions are NOT "just like" StarOptions. A points ownership has a HomeOptions value, a StarOptions value, and a Starpoints value.

Although HomeOptions work similarly to StarOptions, an important distinction is that they DO transfer on resale because they represent your home resort usage rights. However, HomeOptions can't be used to book an SVN reservation unless they convert to StarOptions -- which is a privilege a resale buyer would not be able to exercise, even though they have HomeOptions. Converting between HomeOptions and StarOptions is seamless and happens automatically when booking a reservation, but a resale buyer would see his/her HomeOptions in a separate "pool" from their StarOptions.

Also, HomeOptions cannot be banked and have nothing to do with Elite status.


----------



## m61376

Interesting thread. Besides the kitchenette issue, I wonder why they opted for 3BR/2baths instead of 3 baths? Many times 3BR units are occupied by 2 families instead of just parents with kids, and I know for us even when traveling multi-generation but all the same family the third bathroom is a big plus. 

And my first thought when I saw the smaller kitchens was better for the on-site restaurants, and I understand that the younger demographic may eat out more (I think we all do nowadays), but presumably the resort will be around for a long time and should meet the needs of owners 10 and 20 years down the road. A kitchen doesn't have to be huge to be useful- a big fridge and a little more counter space would make a big difference in ease of use. IMHO the full kitchens at many resorts have way too much cabinet soace ( or maybe it's just that I'm so use to cramming my cabinets at home that they seem almost empty ).

I also find it interesting that all 52 weeks are included at the same usage point cost, and that particularly they reserve the right to create event weeks later on. I would think that at first glance it would attract buyers wanting the winter school vacation weeks, but the subject to change caveat would scare off those who bother to read the details.

It will be interesting to see how these sell in contrast to the mandatory resorts adjacent to the property which can be bought on the resale market. 
It definitely is interesting to see the differences between Marriott's and Starwood's approaches, and wonder how the stock market will view the VSE spin off from HOT. From the investor's perspective VAC was a huge hit; will VSE be as well?


----------



## Ken555

Have they posted floor plans yet? Now that they have 1-bed units, I'm curious where they are even though they're not ocean view. I normally reserve a 1-bed when in Hawaii, though occasionally need more, and it's nice to know it may be possible to stay at the new resort without spending more than I would at WKORV.

FWIW, I also think they made some interesting design compromises re kitchen in all units and the number of baths for the 3-bed. I suspect I'll be enjoying, and preferring, WKORV (N/S) for many more years.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## DeniseM

Ken555 said:


> I suspect I'll be enjoying, and preferring, WKORV (N/S) for many more years.



But can you really enjoy it when it's located on "Airport Beach"?


----------



## Ken555

DeniseM said:


> But can you really enjoy it when it's located on "Airport Beach"?




No! I was watching the skies carefully this morning as I walked to Duke's...

FYI, Honua Kai has its main pool closed for renovation for apparently the last week or so (I didn't get an end date). No one is outside the main area, so I think they're all by the second pool/building. Dukes was almost empty for breakfast. And the weather is PERFECT...(I'm learning from others on TUG that I must capitalize words when I need emphasis since without such a visual clue they will be misinterpreted). 

Also FYI, WKORV now has a small Tuesday craft booths section in addition to Friday's.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Politico

At WKORVN now and south side next week. Informed that they no longer hold on to beach gear left by prior guests in storage on north side. Went to south side and a security guy dug up some leftover beach gear. It's tiresome to buy sand toys for our young one each trip. Wonder what led to the change.


----------



## GregT

All,

Apparently MFs are priced at $0.0178 per Option, so MFs look to be the following:

1BR RV:  $1,441
2BR RV:  $2,636
2BR OF:  $3,145
3BR OF:  $4,587

When I walked through the Hyatt timeshare, their 3BR units had an MF of ~$4,000 and I was surprised at that number.  Maui Ocean Club 3BR looks like a "bargain" at $2,700.  Personally, I am curious about WPoipu and WCabo and will see those properties have similar high MFs at introduction.

Interesting.  

Best,

Greg


----------



## SueDonJ

Ken555 said:


> ...(I'm learning from others on TUG that I must capitalize words when I need emphasis since without such a visual clue they will be misinterpreted).  ...



HAHAHA!!!  For some reason this made me laugh VERY LOUDLY.

Some nonsense - how do you pronounce the name of this resort?  Every time I see this thread on the forums page this comes into my head.  It's a worse earworm than It's A Small World After All unless you have the time to dance throughout your day.


----------



## DeniseM

Hawaiian vowels are the same as Spanish, and are pronounced separately, not blended, so I'd say:  Nah-nay-ah  Although that is a guess, because I've never heard it spoken.


----------



## DavidnRobin

As Denise wrote: Nanea = Nah nay ah


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Apparently MFs are priced at $0.0178 per Option, so MFs look to be the following:
> 
> 1BR RV:  $1,441
> 2BR RV:  $2,636
> 2BR OF:  $3,145
> 3BR OF:  $4,587
> 
> When I walked through the Hyatt timeshare, their 3BR units had an MF of ~$4,000 and I was surprised at that number.  Maui Ocean Club 3BR looks like a "bargain" at $2,700.  Personally, I am curious about WPoipu and WCabo and will see those properties have similar high MFs at introduction.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



One difference being that MOC has an efficiency kitchen whereas Hyatt has a nice full kitchen. Granted, Nanea is newer and flashier than MOC, but wow...that is a spendy MF for a unit you cannot lock off and use multiple weeks


----------



## GregT

ThreeLittleBirds said:


> One difference being that MOC has an efficiency kitchen whereas Hyatt has a nice full kitchen. Granted, Nanea is newer and flashier than MOC, but wow...that is a spendy MF for a unit you cannot lock off and use multiple weeks



No, actually my MOC 3BR has a much bigger kitchen than the kitchenette in Nanea.  I agree that the original MOC tower only has kitchenettes, but the new towers have a full kitchen.






The combo of the limited kitchen, smaller living area, only 2 bathrooms, and higher MFs really decrease the attractiveness of Nanea versus Hyatt and MOC 3BR units.

Interesting.  [this pic is of my exact unit:  6206/25  -- I love that place!]

Best,

Greg


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Nanea Info*

so... did the Owner update

I met 1:1 last week to inquire about a fix/fix VOI here at WPORV- and taking back my EOY, and requaling resale(s). Unfortunately, the specific villa I wanted was sold (probably my fault when I wrote about this in 2011). They offered some others - very nice HH sections, but not for us.  May be argumentive here,but wish I picked it up in 2011(esp if I planned a requal at the time - which I didn't have). There is something to be said buying a fix/fix in certain circumstances - precontruction offers some value here if you choose to take that path - very dependent on individuals vacation needs... caveat emptor

Today. (2nd week ) did the incentive update w/spouse as they were just starting to sell Nanea during 1st visit and wasn't prepared.  Interestingly, they had to check to see if I could do an Owners Update (w/ incentives - 5000SPs, or $100 at restaurant, or $75 resort credit) after meeting 1:1 first w/o incentive - which makes no logical sense sine they would be happy to meet 1:1 after an Owner Update w/o issue.

Got pricing info for various Nanea sizes and views. As discussed before - no 1Bd. OF villas (I recall the original design had a 1Bd OF, but could be mistaken) - too bad for those just traveling as a couple like us - and view is priority. 

I do like how they set-up the various checkin days to the system with clear designation of View that is relative to the SOs that in turn (importantly) are proportional to MFs.

Lunchtime...


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> so... did the Owner update
> 
> I met 1:1 last week to inquire about a fix/fix VOI here at WPORV- and taking back my EOY, and requaling resale(s). Unfortunately, the specific villa I wanted was sold (probably my fault when I wrote about this in 2011). They offered some others - very nice HH sections, but not for us.  May be argumentive here,but wish I picked it up in 2011(esp if I planned a requal at the time - which I didn't have). There is something to be said buying a fix/fix in certain circumstances - precontruction offers some value here if you choose to take that path - very dependent on individuals vacation needs... caveat emptor
> 
> Today. (2nd week ) did the incentive  Update w/spouse update as they were just starting to sell Nanea during 1st visit and wasn't prepared.  Interestingly, they had to check to see if I could do an Owners Update (w/ incentives - 5000SPs, or $100 at restaurant, or $75 resort credit) after meeting 1:1 first w/o incentive - which makes no logical sense sine they would be happy to meet 1:1 after an Owner Update w/o issue.
> 
> Got pricing info for various Nanea sizes and views. As discussed before - no 1Bd. OF villas (I recall the original design had a 1Bd OF, but could be mistaken) - too bad for those just traveling as a couple like us - and view is priority.
> 
> I do like how they set-up the various checkin days to the system with clear designation of View that is relative to the SOs that in turn (importantly) are proportional to MFs.
> 
> Lunchtime...



For continuity...

From Sales...
All beds will be King Size (heard that before...)
Likely no underground parking (going to be long walk to OF)
Those 3 HH sections will be OF - 2 on sides, and one overlooking main pool (good idea for those pool-watchers).
380 units, but couldn't get % on OF (that is a lot of occupancy and additional crowds to area)
Available to start Ownership in 2018 as the resort will only likely be open for half of 2017
I think I heard correctly that any amount of OF/RV HOs can be purchased (with 1 week minimum) - so do not need to buy in HO interval packages (this is new)
Can buy a 3Bd OF fix/fix, but not 2Bd OF fix/fix (really...?) - I bring this up, because owning those corner 6th floor villas could have value - and likely will be sold precontruction (IMO)

Sorry if any of above is not clear - writing this on iPad by pool.
I didn't ask about HOs upon resale.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> For continuity...
> 
> From Sales...
> All beds will be King Size (heard that before...)
> Likely no underground parking (going to be long walk to OF)
> Those 3 HH sections will be OF - 2 on sides, and one overlooking main pool (good idea for those pool-watchers).
> 380 units, but couldn't get % on OF (that is a lot of occupancy and additional crowds to area)
> Available to start Ownership in 2018 as the resort will only likely be open for half of 2017
> I think I heard correctly that any amount of OF/RV HOs can be purchased (with 1 week minimum) - so do not need to buy in HO interval packages (this is new)
> Can buy a 3Bd OF fix/fix, but not 2Bd OF fix/fix (really...?) - I bring this up, because owning those corner 6th floor villas could have value - and likely will be sold precontruction (IMO)
> 
> Sorry if any of above is not clear - writing this on iPad by pool
> I didn't ask about HOs upon resale.



Prices/costs... I wrote these down and my handwriting is bad - so sorry if not entirely accurate.

3Bd OF: $111K, 257.7 HOs, 139K SPs, $4582 MFs
2Bd OF: $76K, 176.7K HOs, 95K SPs, $3142 MFs (MFs based on being proportional to HOs)
2Bd RV: $56K, 148.1K HOs, 80K SPs, $2633 MFs
1Bd RV: $31K, 81K HOs, 44K SPs, $1440 MFs

2Bd OF EOY: $44K
3Bd OF fix/fix: $133K, $78K EOY
2Bd OF fix/fix: $92K (but couldn't sell upon further consultation with the wizard being the curtain... ?)

Note - Updated based on my scribbled notes


----------



## Politico

I have my "owners update" early next week. Happy to ask any questions that folks want answered...


----------



## DeniseM

Politico said:


> I have my "owners update" early next week. Happy to ask any questions that folks want answered...



I don't expect them to know, but I'd be interested in knowing what the rules will be for resales.


----------



## Ken555

DeniseM said:


> I don't expect them to know, but I'd be interested in knowing what the rules will be for resales.




Developer good. Resale bad.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> I don't expect them to know, but I'd be interested in knowing what the rules will be for resales.



I would strongly expect that resale HOs will same as any Voluntary Resort - like CV - can use in HomeResort Options as deeded.  No SVN. Upon resale - only HomeResort or II.  Is the question - can they be used at Nanea at <8 months? I would expect they would be eligible since that is the HomeResort ownership.  Sorry didn't ask the specifics on this.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> Developer good. Resale bad.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Sir... you get the new view location... sewage plant...


----------



## ValleyGirl

Ken can you send a pvt msg using tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DeniseM

ValleyGirl said:


> Ken can you send a pvt msg using tapatalk
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm not sure if you are asking Ken to contact you, or if you are asking about Tapatalk, but yes you can send a PM with Tapatalk.  

Click on the three bars icon at the top of the Tapatalk Screen > Messages > New Message.


----------



## topdog

We are at WKORVN now, on an II exchange, and attended the owners update/ Nanea presentation yesterday.  They offered a 1 br resort view, plus requalify our SDO gold 2 br as 81000 staroptions for only $37k.  We would then be 3 star elite with 162000 options etc.  they would also give 90000 starpoints and chance to buy more etc. It was not a hard sell, a very pleasant experience.

  This is a very nice resort, and if you have children with you it's perfect.  For cranky adults like us, feeling blah because the hurricane stole our trade winds, little things are annoying, e.g. Too many pool chairs jammed together, parking spaces too small, adult pool too small.  Come to think of it, I guess that's about it.

We also attended a presentation at the new Hyatt.  Very impressive project.  Their 1 br was quoted at $40k and the 2br at $60k or 80k, I don't remember which, sorry to say.  Their pastries were better than those at the Westin presentation, I do remember that!

Tomorrow we leave for Princeville.  Dinner at Kimo's this week was a great one, as was the salad and flatbread at Flatbread in Paia, and lunch at Aloha mixed plate.  If we lived on the west coast Hawaii would become an annual trip, but from Florida....

I think I need to join the list of how do I get in to WSJ?


----------



## lizap

Greg,  the photos make the room look dated (relative to Westin's more modern look).  Is it the photo?



GregT said:


> No, actually my MOC 3BR has a much bigger kitchen than the kitchenette in Nanea.  I agree that the original MOC tower only has kitchenettes, but the new towers have a full kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The combo of the limited kitchen, smaller living area, only 2 bathrooms, and higher MFs really decrease the attractiveness of Nanea versus Hyatt and MOC 3BR units.
> 
> Interesting.  [this pic is of my exact unit:  6206/25  -- I love that place!]
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


----------



## ValleyGirl

DeniseM said:


> I'm not sure if you are asking Ken to contact you, or if you are asking about Tapatalk, but yes you can send a PM with Tapatalk.
> 
> 
> 
> Click on the three bars icon at the top of the Tapatalk Screen > Messages > New Message.




PM thank you Denise 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GregT

lizap said:


> Greg,  the photos make the room look dated (relative to Westin's more modern look).  Is it the photo?




The photo is from 2007 when the model opened, but the furnishings are still the same.  There is definitely a difference in look and feel between Westin rooms and Marriott rooms, it's a personal preference on modern versus non-modern (?).  

Best,

Greg


----------



## lizap

I like both Westin and Marriotts's furnishings- they are different, both both nice.




GregT said:


> The photo is from 2007 when the model opened, but the furnishings are still the same.  There is definitely a difference in look and feel between Westin rooms and Marriott rooms, it's a personal preference on modern versus non-modern (?).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


----------



## DavidnRobin

topdog said:


> We are at WKORVN now, on an II exchange, and attended the owners update/ Nanea presentation yesterday.  They offered a 1 br resort view, plus requalify our SDO gold 2 br as 81000 staroptions for only $37k.  We would then be 3 star elite with 162000 options etc.  they would also give 90000 starpoints and chance to buy more etc. It was not a hard sell, a very pleasant experience.
> 
> This is a very nice resort, and if you have children with you it's perfect.  For cranky adults like us, feeling blah because the hurricane stole our trade winds, little things are annoying, e.g. Too many pool chairs jammed together, parking spaces too small, adult pool too small.  Come to think of it, I guess that's about it.
> 
> We also attended a presentation at the new Hyatt.  Very impressive project.  Their 1 br was quoted at $40k and the 2br at $60k or 80k, I don't remember which, sorry to say.  Their pastries were better than those at the Westin presentation, I do remember that!
> 
> Tomorrow we leave for Princeville.  Dinner at Kimo's this week was a great one, as was the salad and flatbread at Flatbread in Paia, and lunch at Aloha mixed plate.  If we lived on the west coast Hawaii would become an annual trip, but from Florida....
> 
> I think I need to join the list of how do I get in to WSJ?



Perhaps I wrote a '37' instead of '31' during my presentation yesterday, but I have the 1Bd RV as $31K...  If $37K, then I have the MFs wrong since I calculated them based on the 2Bd OF.

There is a WSJ list?


----------



## LisaRex

lizap said:


> I like both Westin and Marriotts's furnishings- they are different, both both nice.



I agree.  Westin's furnishing are nice, but generic and not made for comfort.  Marriott's furnishing are more comfortable and homey.


----------



## lizap

This is probably very person-specific. We tend to like more modern, but I have to say in recent years, Westin's furnishings seem to have gotten cheaper looking, but maybe it's just me.




LisaRex said:


> I agree.  Westin's furnishing are nice, but generic and not made for comfort.  Marriott's furnishing are more comfortable and homey.


----------



## topdog

DavidnRobin said:


> Perhaps I wrote a '37' instead of '31' during my presentation yesterday, but I have the 1Bd RV as $31K...  If $37K, then I have the MFs wrong since I calculated them based on the 2Bd OF.
> 
> There is a WSJ list?



I may have been wrong or they may have added a fee to requalify SDO gold plus, or they were sensing we wouldn't bite.  I should start checking to see what WSJ rents for, as I know I won't get an exchange there via Interval.  What  phase or units would you recommend for a renter, I know you folks are very big fans there.  I heard from an owner here that some of the units are in groups of four with a private pool. True?  I will begin reading stickies and reviews of course, and can do a search of previous posts here.


----------



## canesfan

WSJ is a very personal preference. There are the hilltop villas that are away from the main resort that have their own pools. Then Bay Vista which are up on the hill. They are a hike but they have bigger kitchens and a larger floor plan. Coral Vista which are the new ones, those have the kitchenettes and smaller floor plans but closer to the pool/ beach area. It really is your preference. I prefer BV. We spend time at the main resort pool and the pool bar. We are social people. Others on here prefer Hilltops. CV is new.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Just finished our very long owners update!  Will post a lot of info after we eat tonight.
Ended up selling back our 2BR fixed hammerhead 2nd floor corner unit for a 3BR fixed 4th floor corner unit in Bldg 1 looking to the South over open space.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidnRobin

ValleyGirl said:


> Just finished our very long owners update!  Will post a lot of info after we eat tonight.
> Ended up selling back our 2BR fixed hammerhead 2nd floor corner unit for a 3BR fixed 4th floor corner unit in Bldg 1 looking to the South over open space.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Came by pool to say hello - meant 2 people with same name, same description.  Sorry to have missed you.

Interesting purchase - too bad you didn't have the 1st floor corner - our villa for this week. Would have bought it from you, but sure they gave you better price as a trade-in.


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## ValleyGirl

Gave us full price on trade and no cash upfront


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM

ValleyGirl said:


> Gave us full price on trade and no cash upfront



No cash upfront?  Does that mean you financed it, or it was an even trade?


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> No cash upfront?  Does that mean you financed it, or it was an even trade?



You saw the price for a 3Bd fx/fx at Nanea that I posted above (and MFs) - the 2BdLO fx/fx WPORV is much less - so I assume this to mean - no deposit for Nanea as they are requesting deposits. (10% for lowlifes like me...)

As mentioned IMO - I do think certain Fx/fx are worth buying in certain circumstances - surprised not 6th floor this early in sales.

WPORV was ~$49K precontruction - then 10% plus 10% for fix/fix


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## Wanttobe5StarElite

ValleyGirl said:


> Gave us full price on trade and no cash upfront
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Can you explain?
Not sure what you mean...

Do you mean that you traded a WKORV for a Nanea without paying/financing anything?


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## Ken555

Wanttobe5StarElite said:


> Can you explain?
> 
> Not sure what you mean...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that you traded a WKORV for a Nanea without paying/financing anything?



Expanding on David's post...since they don't offer occupancy now I'm sure they can't charge the full amount at this time, so they need a deposit to hold your price, etc. When they get their certification of occupancy then buyers will likely need to pay the balance due...or at least that's the way I've seen it done at other locations. I'm sure there's more details to it.

So, I read this as the buyer used their existing deed as the deposit (likely more than the minimum deposit required) and will need to pay more at a later time.


Sent from my iPad


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## LisaRex

Ken555 said:


> So, I read this as the buyer used their existing deed as the deposit (likely more than the minimum deposit required) and will need to pay more at a later time.



That's how I read it: Deed in lieu of deposit.


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## grgs

ValleyGirl said:


> Just finished our very long owners update!  Will post a lot of info after we eat tonight.



Is dinner over yet?  We want all the details!


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## czar

grgs said:


> Is dinner over yet?  We want all the details!



+1!  Interested to hear the deal you worked.

I'm so disappointed with the kitchen situation.  Growing up, we always rented house was when we went on vacation.  I like Aras because they offer the "size" and amenities of houses with resort amenities.  We make almost all of our meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, in the kitchen! No kitchen would be a deal breaker for us. Also,  for people who eat out a lot, are they eating at the resort, or are they coming off site to restaurant? My limited experience on this is that people might eat at the resort one night and then head off grounds to eat at local restaurants, like we do sometimes at WSJ (Rhimblines!)


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## lizap

We usually have a simple lunch (e.g., lean cuisine, fruit) in the unit that does not require cooking and go out for dinner.  Sometimes we reverse and go out for lunch. Almost never eat at the resort.  Eating out for us is an enjoyable part of our vacation.  I can see if you have a large family how it could get expensive eating out.  For those who cook, curious if you cook simple things or spend alot of time in the kitchen while on vacation..




czar said:


> +1!  Interested to hear the deal you worked.
> 
> I'm so disappointed with the kitchen situation.  Growing up, we always rented house was when we went on vacation.  I like Aras because they offer the "size" and amenities of houses with resort amenities.  We make almost all of our meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, in the kitchen! No kitchen would be a deal breaker for us. Also,  for people who eat out a lot, are they eating at the resort, or are they coming off site to restaurant? My limited experience on this is that people might eat at the resort one night and then head off grounds to eat at local restaurants, like we do sometimes at WSJ (Rhimblines!)


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## Helios

*Week 51 and 52 - Event Weeks?*

Anybody knows how they will treat week 51 and 52?  Are they event weeks that require Event Week Home Options?  Will they be unavailable for Staroption reservations at 8 months, in they unlike event units are not reserved before 8 months?


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## tborr123

On the off chance there are other questions not already answered here, let me know as I am going to the owner's update at WKORV sometime this week.


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## Ken555

I wonder if the limited kitchen is partly in response to the County of Maui's claim that timeshare visitors don't visit local restaurants as much as hotel visitors. I'm sure they would never say it is, but I still wonder if this influenced the design.


Sent from my iPad


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## ValleyGirl

ValleyGirl said:


> Gave us full price on trade and no cash upfront
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




"No Cash" meant no immediate cash needed for closing (my qtly taxes are due 9/15). They gave us credit for the Full Price of a WPORV 2BR with the 20%Fixed/Fixed we owned against the Full Price (132K =110K plus 22K (10% + 10% -fixed)) of OF 3BR Fixed/Fixed (Bldg1 Hammerhead only has 3BRs).  Still a 60K diff which we financed and will pay off by end of year.

They will not let you "Fix" a unit on floors 5 & 6.  We picked Bldg 1 - 4th floor corner 3BR on the South side with the park & drainage ditch between WKORNN and WKORN.

Bldg 1 Hammerhead juts out a little more than Bldg 8 so there is also unobstructed view north along the beach.  

I know its a lot of money but we still kept a Princeville EOY 2BR 2nd floor corner (Bldg 6 overlooking plunge pool) Fixed/Fixed in the hammerhead.
Our only complaint of WPORV was you had to travel to get to a beach (yes I know the path to Annini beach if the creek isn't to high (it was due to hurricane that past to the north dumping a major amount of rain.)

We have G'kids just now at an age they can travel and enjoy and more to come.  The value of the 3BR with beach access was very important to our family.

I considered trying to buy a resale OFD in WKORN/NN but would have ended up with more weeks/mx fees.  The only way to get full value was to purchase from developer.  Remember WPORV has very little selling value and we now have the exact room and week locked and can float OF for any other time if we wish.


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## ValleyGirl

Ken555 said:


> Expanding on David's post...since they don't offer occupancy now I'm sure they can't charge the full amount at this time, so they need a deposit to hold your price, etc. When they get their certification of occupancy then buyers will likely need to pay the balance due...or at least that's the way I've seen it done at other locations. I'm sure there's more details to it.
> 
> So, I read this as the buyer used their existing deed as the deposit (likely more than the minimum deposit required) and will need to pay more at a later time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



You can only buy starting in bldg 1 (I'm not sure why - since we wanted bldg 1 we did not pursue).  We could have bought for cash (no deposit) and gotten deed immediately.  Occupancy will be available in August 2017.


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## GregT

ValleyGirl said:


> "No Cash" meant no immediate cash needed for closing (my qtly taxes are due 9/15). They gave us credit for the Full Price of a WPORV 2BR with the 20%Fixed/Fixed we owned against the Full Price (132K =110K plus 22K (10% + 10% -fixed)) of OF 3BR Fixed/Fixed (Bldg1 Hammerhead only has 3BRs).  Still a 60K diff which we financed and will pay off by end of year.
> 
> They will not let you "Fix" a unit on floors 5 & 6.  We picked Bldg 1 - 4th floor corner 3BR on the South side with the park & drainage ditch between WKORNN and WKORN.
> 
> Bldg 1 Hammerhead juts out a little more than Bldg 8 so there is also unobstructed view north along the beach.
> 
> I know its a lot of money but we still kept a Princeville EOY 2BR 2nd floor corner (Bldg 6 overlooking plunge pool) Fixed/Fixed in the hammerhead.
> Our only complaint of WPORV was you had to travel to get to a beach (yes I know the path to Annini beach if the creek isn't to high (it was due to hurricane that past to the north dumping a major amount of rain.)
> 
> We have G'kids just now at an age they can travel and enjoy and more to come.  The value of the 3BR with beach access was very important to our family.
> 
> I considered trying to buy a resale OFD in WKORN/NN but would have ended up with more weeks/mx fees.  The only way to get full value was to purchase from developer.  Remember WPORV has very little selling value and we now have the exact room and week locked and can float OF for any other time if we wish.



Congratulations on your purchase -- what fixed week did you buy?   

Best,

Greg


----------



## ValleyGirl

Ken555 said:


> I wonder if the limited kitchen is partly in response to the County of Maui's claim that timeshare visitors don't visit local restaurants as much as hotel visitors. I'm sure they would never say it is, but I still wonder if this influenced the design.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Not sure why - when I mentioned "Kitchenette" to sales they said "NO" has an oven, full fridge etc - then I pointed to their sale material which labed it a "Kitchnette" - it was very entertaining

The dining room table is on wheels of some kind (moved near food prep for more space until neededand can be moved around as well as the lanai table but that is of little value when considering the lack of counterspace


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## ValleyGirl

GregT said:


> Congratulations on your purchase -- what fixed week did you buy?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



We bought week 1 as that still has some vacation time for kids, the only "cold" time in San Antonio and is whale watching season.  Also other fixed week travel, annual business trip/vacation etc meant this was best for our family. 
YMMV


----------



## ValleyGirl

tborr123 said:


> On the off chance there are other questions not already answered here, let me know as I am going to the owner's update at WKORV sometime this week.



Ask about Post 160 (Moto X) question.  There are event weeks 51 & 52.  Did not ask because we are always vising family over Christmas:whoopie:

Nanea is divided as mentioned before into RV and OF.  At 12 Mos you can only reserve your particular purchase choic but at 8Mos everything is open to staroptions.

Also it is not part of a "FLEX" system as far as we asked and as they explained.   You do not own points in an aggregate "Flex", "Bubble" or"Pool"


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## czar

Congrats. Sounds like you got exactly what you needed - and wanted! - for your family. Although the deal is always there next time, it's also a reality that developer prices - and opportunities to trade - change over time. So congrats and can't wait to see pics when it's finally done. Hoping this makes it easier to trade into HI 



ValleyGirl said:


> "No Cash" meant no immediate cash needed for closing (my qtly taxes are due 9/15). They gave us credit for the Full Price of a WPORV 2BR with the 20%Fixed/Fixed we owned against the Full Price (132K =110K plus 22K (10% + 10% -fixed)) of OF 3BR Fixed/Fixed (Bldg1 Hammerhead only has 3BRs).  Still a 60K diff which we financed and will pay off by end of year.
> 
> They will not let you "Fix" a unit on floors 5 & 6.  We picked Bldg 1 - 4th floor corner 3BR on the South side with the park & drainage ditch between WKORNN and WKORN.
> 
> Bldg 1 Hammerhead juts out a little more than Bldg 8 so there is also unobstructed view north along the beach.
> 
> I know its a lot of money but we still kept a Princeville EOY 2BR 2nd floor corner (Bldg 6 overlooking plunge pool) Fixed/Fixed in the hammerhead.
> Our only complaint of WPORV was you had to travel to get to a beach (yes I know the path to Annini beach if the creek isn't to high (it was due to hurricane that past to the north dumping a major amount of rain.)
> 
> We have G'kids just now at an age they can travel and enjoy and more to come.  The value of the 3BR with beach access was very important to our family.
> 
> I considered trying to buy a resale OFD in WKORN/NN but would have ended up with more weeks/mx fees.  The only way to get full value was to purchase from developer.  Remember WPORV has very little selling value and we now have the exact room and week locked and can float OF for any other time if we wish.


----------



## czar

lizap said:


> We usually have a simple lunch (e.g., lean cuisine, fruit) in the unit that does not require cooking and go out for dinner.  Sometimes we reverse and go out for lunch. Almost never eat at the resort.  Eating out for us is an enjoyable part of our vacation.  I can see if you have a large family how it could get expensive eating out.  For those who cook, curious if you cook simple things or spend alot of time in the kitchen while on vacation..



We do everything from cereal to eggs for breakfast. With lots of kids, we usually have an assembly line on the counter for sandwiches and snacks. For dinner, we usually go out 1-2x in a week, and do simple things 1-2 nights (burgers, pizza), and more complex things the other nights, like steak or fish. We usually don't use the oven, so being in BV has not been an issue, but we saw that the kitchens in CV are tiny when we visited them last summer. A little small for our sized family. 

In and around most of the higher end resorts like StJ, dinner for 2 is easily $100, and with kids we come close to the $200 barrier pretty easily. Between food we packed and about $200 at the store in StJ we had 4-5 meals plus breakfast and lunch (and some drinks, too!).


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## ValleyGirl

czar said:


> We do everything from cereal to eggs for breakfast. With lots of kids, we usually have an assembly line on the counter for sandwiches and snacks. For dinner, we usually go out 1-2x in a week, and do simple things 1-2 nights (burgers, pizza), and more complex things the other nights, like steak or fish. We usually don't use the oven, so being in BV has not been an issue, but we saw that the kitchens in CV are tiny when we visited them last summer. A little small for our sized family.
> 
> In and around most of the higher end resorts like StJ, dinner for 2 is easily $100, and with kids we come close to the $200 barrier pretty easily. Between food we packed and about $200 at the store in StJ we had 4-5 meals plus breakfast and lunch (and some drinks, too!).



Our group of 7 cooked out last night by plunge pool; weather finally cooled down and humidity lifted. We cooked 3 racks of ribs, plus potatoes and salad and it was great - oh did I mention the adult bevs  

Having the pool, hot tub, food, family and friends was an amazing experience.

We have cooked for many in the 1BR side kitchens and it is nice to have the room.  But the grills were immaculate (who cleans them that well ) and we had plenty of room.

We will be cooking Steak, Chicken, Fish on different nights as we really enjoy grilling!


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## lizap

More confirmation that Nanea will be similar to WPORV and not part of FLEX.




ValleyGirl said:


> Ask about Post 160 (Moto X) question.  There are event weeks 51 & 52.  Did not ask because we are always vising family over Christmas:whoopie:
> 
> Nanea is divided as mentioned before into RV and OF.  At 12 Mos you can only reserve your particular purchase choic but at 8Mos everything is open to staroptions.
> 
> Also it is not part of a "FLEX" system as far as we asked and as they explained.   You do not own points in an aggregate "Flex", "Bubble" or"Pool"


----------



## ValleyGirl

lizap said:


> More confirmation that Nanea will be similar to WPORV and not part of FLEX.



Biggest difference I can see is Home Options are like more flexible Home Resort options.  Ie can start, stop any day and for as many days as you have view options.  Only limitation is Fixed weeks checkin on Fridays only.:annoyed:


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## grgs

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity and congrats on your purchase!


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## canesfan

I like the 3 bedroom option because as my kids are getting older we are needing more space.  But I'm still mourning the l/o because they also may not travel with us all the time. Then we have this huge room! The more I'm hearing about the way it's being sold. I'm warming up to it. I'm glad they aren't throwing it into a Flex program. And considering its developer, the prices aren't outrageous.  WKORVN is probably still the better option for us if we were going to expand our portfolio.

We use our kitchen varying on the resort and who we are traveling with. In STJ we don't cook, but mix drinks. SVV we cook a good deal and grill steaks, chicken & veggies. Last trip I threw a crockpot in for a couple meals. WKORV we do light breakfast of muffins and fruit. Sandwiches for lunch. Maybe the kids will make a pizza. We will grill may 2 dinners, the rest are out at local restaurants. I'm on vacation too!


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## triangulum33

So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?


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## lizap

see post 173.




triangulum33 said:


> So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?


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## DeniseM

Selling Options, instead of deeded weeks, gives Starwood more flexability and control - it benefits them.  I would expect to see all future resorts sold this way.


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## SMHarman

triangulum33 said:


> So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?





DeniseM said:


> Selling Options, instead of deeded weeks, gives Starwood more flexability and control - it benefits them.  I would expect to see all future resorts sold this way.


It benefits Starwood as they can run the room allocation algorithms just like a hotel. It also takes away the you must arrive on Saturday that puts people off timeshares. This also helps housekeeping a lot. 

It also blends the cost of MF to make higher desirability weeks have higher MF

It benefits the buyer as they can book odd length durations at 12 month's. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## LisaRex

ValleyGirl (Katherine, right?), I'm happy for you. Congratulations!

P.S. I think it's ridiculous that you cannot fix a 5th or 6th floor villa.


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## ValleyGirl

LisaRex said:


> ValleyGirl (Katherine, right?), I'm happy for you. Congratulations!
> 
> P.S. I think it's ridiculous that you cannot fix a 5th or 6th floor villa.



Its Vickie and John

I do too:annoyed:

But it is a way of them saying to float owners with any amount of Home Options; you can book at 12 months and there will be plenty of high floor rooms available.


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## gregb

Something to consider.  The value of 5th and 6th floor will depend on what trees they plant/leave on the beach.  Based on my experiences in Building 8 at WKORN, 5th & 6th floors look over the tops of the trees for a fairly clear view of the ocean.  3rd & 4th floors look through the trees.  Not the best view for watching whales.  I have not stayed on 1st or 2nd floor.  

Greg


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## gregb

I think Home Options are a way of providing Home Resort Preference (8-12 months out) without having to actually deed units to owners.  From what I have read, it seems they work pretty much the same as the Home Resort Preference of deeded resorts.  Yes they allow any day check-in.  But that is something Vistana could add to the other resorts any time they decide it is good for the system.  

Today you can turn your unit into StartOptions during the Home Resort Preference.  You just have to make a StarOptions reservation at a different resort and they will use them up.  I believe Home Options work the same.  

The one thing that is different with Home Options instead of deeds is that I wonder if Vistana could create a Flex system in Hawaii, and put Nanea into it, without the owners having a say.  We know they cannot do that with our deeded properties.  They have to entice us to "buy into" the Flex plan.  But depending on how the Nanea Assn by-laws are written, they might be able to do that for Nanea.

Greg


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## DeniseM

Greg - no owners gave permission for the Florida/SDO/SBP Flex-option program and those are deeded resorts, so I see no reason why not.  

I expect to see any new Hawaii resorts in a Hawaii Group.  To be quite honest, I'm surprised Starwood isn't buying deeds at WKORV-N/S to put into a Hawaii group, and wonder if that will come later.


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## lizap

Greg, there have been recent reports from people who attended owners' meetings in Hawaii that Nanea will not be part of the FLEX system. 



gregb said:


> I think Home Options are a way of providing Home Resort Preference (8-12 months out) without having to actually deed units to owners.  From what I have read, it seems they work pretty much the same as the Home Resort Preference of deeded resorts.  Yes they allow any day check-in.  But that is something Vistana could add to the other resorts any time they decide it is good for the system.
> 
> Today you can turn your unit into StartOptions during the Home Resort Preference.  You just have to make a StarOptions reservation at a different resort and they will use them up.  I believe Home Options work the same.
> 
> The one thing that is different with Home Options instead of deeds is that I wonder if Vistana could create a Flex system in Hawaii, and put Nanea into it, without the owners having a say.  We know they cannot do that with our deeded properties.  They have to entice us to "buy into" the Flex plan.  But depending on how the Nanea Assn by-laws are written, they might be able to do that for Nanea.
> 
> Greg


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## DeniseM

I agree that it won't be part of the Florida group, but I will be really surprised if SW doesn't form a Hawaii group.


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## Politico

Attended an update this week. For what it's worth, was told that 1) there are no current plans for a Westin FLEX, 2) a Westin FLEX is unlikely, and 3) no current plans for a Hawaii FLEX, but it is possible and would most likely be a Maui FLEX (WPORV and Poipu not included) if it happened at all.


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## DavidnRobin

I heard the same thing - no HI Flex. Pretty definitive - from Sales. Why would there be a need for one?  Already can use SOs from one to stay at another - otherwise use HOs to stay at own resort.  What would be the purpose for a HI Flex? The Sheraton Flex has purpose.  I do not see one for HI.  Adds no value.  IMO


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## Politico

moto x said:


> Anybody knows how they will treat week 51 and 52?  Are they event weeks that require Event Week Home Options?  Will they be unavailable for Staroption reservations at 8 months, in they unlike event units are not reserved before 8 months?




From sales person: There are event weeks with home options for weeks 51 and 52. If owner doesn't want to use, they can be converted to regular home options and be used 8-12 months out at Nanea. Then, I assume they become regular staroptions at 8 months.


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## Politico

DavidnRobin said:


> I heard the same thing - no HI Flex. Pretty definitive - from Sales. Why would there be a need for one?  Already can use SOs from one to stay at another - otherwise use HOs to stay at own resort.  What would be the purpose for a HI Flex? The Sheraton Flex has purpose.  I do not see one for HI.  Adds no value.  IMO




I agree for now. Frankly, I think it would devalue Nanea sales. Why would I buy Nanea now, if someone could also buy into Hawaii Flex, and have the same opportunity to book 12 months out as me? 

But, once Nanea is sold out, which I think will be fairly fast, I wouldn't completely discount the chance that Starwood would want to essentially try and sell WKORV N + S and WPORV twice by selling a Hawaii Flex. Not saying it will happen, but with so much change, it's not impossible.


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## Helios

So, probably Nanea weeks 51 and 52 will not be available to non event week owners, just like at the two existing resorts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## lizap

ok, so I think we now have enough information to put this speculation to rest for a while. :zzz:




Politico said:


> Attended an update this week. For what it's worth, was told that 1) there are no current plans for a Westin FLEX, 2) a Westin FLEX is unlikely, and 3) no current plans for a Hawaii FLEX, but it is possible and would most likely be a Maui FLEX (WPORV and Poipu not included) if it happened at all.


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## SMHarman

moto x said:


> So, probably Nanea weeks 51 and 52 will not be available to non event week owners, just like at the two existing resorts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


From the SO chart it looks a lot more like WLR ownership in 51 and 52. 

You can buy a fix week or at 12 months have season preference and it is unlikely to trickle down to SO booking. 

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## Helios

Right, possible but unlikely...


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## NNerland

I also believe - and forgive me if this has been covered -- but HOME OPTIONS allow Starwood and the Association to charge "More" for various seasons and uses when it comes to annual dues.

It has long been discussed that if you own a Winter 3bd in St John and a Fall 3 bd in St John you pay the same annual maintenance fee - irregardless of the fact that you get far fewer options/conversion points.

By moving away from Deed Ownership to Pool Points --- they are legally allowed to charge more by season and use.   This also then allows them to charge more on the front end as well for "premium" seasons and force a justification of what you get in return on you.  

This won't matter in Hawaii as they consider all 52 weeks the same - but it matters significantly in other resorts, such as Coral Vista in St John where they have a few different seasons.  However, they have very large annual dues at the new resort and the "points" seem to be more vague on "profit margin" when compared to "deeded association".  Like Denise said gives Starwood more control and ability to "pad the profit" in high demand areas.  I am still surprised a 3 bedroom is almost 40% more in Hawaii than St John -- but know Hawaii is very expensive.

Again probably covered - but thought I would add my 2cents after reading the recent posts.


----------



## gregb

I realize the owners didn't give permission to the forming of Sheraton Flex.  But what I meant was it is my understanding that deeded owners are only put into the flex plan if they "sell back" their deed to Vistana for Flex points.  Deeded owners are able to remain deeded owners, if they wish.   

My speculation is that if with Nanea Points, not a deed, Vistana would be able to create a Flex plan and automatically put everyone into it.    

Greg 




DeniseM said:


> Greg - no owners gave permission for the Florida/SDO/SBP Flex-option program and those are deeded resorts, so I see no reason why not.
> 
> I expect to see any new Hawaii resorts in a Hawaii Group.  To be quite honest, I'm surprised Starwood isn't buying deeds at WKORV-N/S to put into a Hawaii group, and wonder if that will come later.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I am not getting the speculation here...

WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell -  Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex?  There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion.  Same will happen with Nanea.  Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.

Nanea is deeded.

The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs.  A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.

You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.

ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer.  I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.

The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.

One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.

IMO


----------



## lizap

David, your post is one of the best I've read on this issue.  It summarizes the issues very well and is in sync with what Starwood is doing.  At this point, there is NO reason to believe anything any different.




DavidnRobin said:


> I am not getting the speculation here...
> 
> WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell -  Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex?  There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion.  Same will happen with Nanea.  Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.
> 
> Nanea is deeded.
> 
> The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs.  A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.
> 
> You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.
> 
> ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer.  I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.
> 
> The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.
> 
> One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.
> 
> IMO


----------



## czar

> Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.



It will definitely be interesting to see what resale prices are like as compared to WKORV - and whether they are (and how much) lower because it's voluntary.


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> I am not getting the speculation here...
> 
> WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell -  Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex?  There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion.  Same will happen with Nanea.  Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.
> 
> Nanea is deeded.
> 
> The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs.  A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.
> 
> You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.
> 
> ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer.  I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.
> 
> The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.
> 
> One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.
> 
> IMO



I also think this is an excellent and succinct summary of the situation, and it makes sense to me. 

One of the most important things about this is it links to the historical points requirements without inflating all view categories.  81K StarOptions can still secure a 1BR.  148K can still secure a 2BR.  View category aside, this is an important benchmark and Nanea was the test case (for me) to see if Starwood would go the way of HGVC (and others) and premium price the new resort.  HGVC tried this with Grand Waikikian and Kings Land and the introduced subsequent properties that at least link back to the original point structure (with premiums for view). 

I now think WPoipu and WCabo will include 81K 1BR something's as well as higher for premium view. 

Interesting and encouraging. 

Best,

Greg


----------



## lizap

May I suggest placing David's post (197) under one of the Starwood stickys.  Others will have question/comments going forward; his post helps to clarify. 




GregT said:


> I also think this is an excellent and succinct summary of the situation, and it makes sense to me.
> 
> One of the most important things about this is it links to the historical points requirements without inflating all view categories.  81K StarOptions can still secure a 1BR.  148K can still secure a 2BR.  View category aside, this is an important benchmark and Nanea was the test case (for me) to see if Starwood would go the way of HGVC (and others) and premium price the new resort.  HGVC tried this with Grand Waikikian and Kings Land and the introduced subsequent properties that at least link back to the original point structure (with premiums for view).
> 
> I know think WPoipu and WCabo will include 81K 1BR something's as well as higher for premium view.
> 
> Interesting and encouraging.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


----------



## dlca1

Attended an owners update at wkorv/n this morning
Our resident tug experts have covered everything

Their main focus is currently to sell nanea

Made for a relatively quick update. I told them I'd only be interested in buying mandatory. 

The second sales guy said it wasn't possible to use resale wkorvn purchase towards an ocean front wkorv. The sales guy was trying to suggest it is also no longer possible to buy resale ocean front through the resale sales channels due to rofr


----------



## czar

Likely been speculated elsewhere, but I'm assuming these newer, larger, and more readily available HO packages and SO needed to gain access to some of the more in demand resorts will mean we should expect an increase in SO requirements for elite status?


----------



## LisaRex

czar said:


> Likely been speculated elsewhere, but I'm assuming these newer, larger, and more readily available HO packages and SO needed to gain access to some of the more in demand resorts will mean we should expect an increase in SO requirements for elite status?



With Vistana Resorts separated from Starwood hotels, I think that there's a possibility that they'll revamp the entire Elite system but I don't see why they'd increase the SOs needed to get there.


----------



## pacman777

If all the new resorts they sell going forward are all voluntary then I think this will make all the current mandatory resorts that much more valuable. I'm definitely seeing higher resale prices for WKV compared to a year ago and I imagine it will keep increasing if Vistana doesn't change things around too much in how staroptions and SVN works.


----------



## DavidnRobin

dlca1 said:


> Attended an owners update at wkorv/n this morning
> Our resident tug experts have covered everything
> 
> Their main focus is currently to sell nanea
> 
> Made for a relatively quick update. I told them I'd only be interested in buying mandatory.
> 
> The second sales guy said it wasn't possible to use resale wkorvn purchase towards an ocean front wkorv. The sales guy was trying to suggest it is also no longer possible to buy resale ocean front through the resale sales channels due to rofr



I met someone who just brought one on resale market, but my sales guy said same thing.


----------



## SMHarman

It's always going to be possible yo buy resale OF. Just the number ROFR is exercised at Will increase (so they say) until the next recession. 
They still have a 'new' price. Deduct carry costs and commissions etc and they have a price they will pass ROFR. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## tacopizzabob

*Bought Nanea this weekend - full-size fridges*

Howdy all, First time poster (possibly last time, we'll see).

I visited Ka'anapali this weekend my wife and we surprisingly bought into Nanea after the presentation.  I had never previously even considered buying a timeshare, and I've since done lots of research (lots on this board, so thanks) and I'm going to take the advice @DeniseM offered someone else and rescind my purchase.  This gives me the time to do due diligence and make sure it's the right thing for us.

However, I noticed a lot of discussion in here about the kitchnettes, and just wanted to say that my paperwork clearly states that the fridge is full-size.

It says: "Fully equipped kitchen includes range with oven, microwave, full-size refrigerator, dishwasher, coffee maker, toaster, blender and dinnerware".  (all REFRIGERATORS in all villa plans state full-sized)

Also, for bedsize, it states "Master bedroom with king-sized Westin Heavenly Bed and HD TV". (all beds in all villa plans are king-sized).

I still currently have all of the paperwork so if you have other specific questions you can ask me.

Thanks all!


----------



## PamMo

Hey, welcome to TUG, and thanks for posting! What a helpful first post, too. Thanks for clarifying that Nanea will have full kitchens.


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## tacopizzabob

PamMo said:


> Hey, welcome to TUG, and thanks for posting! What a helpful first post, too. Thanks for clarifying that Nanea will have full kitchens.



(Just edited my post, as I realized it might have been confusing at one point when I said kitchens instead of refrigerators.)  

They all say "Kitchenettes" but the "Kitchenettes" feature full-size refrigerators (that seemed to be the biggest thing people were commenting on in addition to lack of counter space that I think Kitchenettes implies).


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## LisaRex

tacopizzabob, Congratulations on rescinding and welcome to TUG.  I'm sure that you will find something that meets your needs with far less money out of your pocket. 

P.S. Is that because you like both tacos and pizzas, or because you like taco-flavored pizzas?


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## tacopizzabob

LisaRex said:


> P.S. Is that because you like both tacos and pizzas, or because you like taco-flavored pizzas?



It's because I like Tacos, Pizzas, and I'm a Bob 

and thanks, I really had never considered the whole TS thing, but after doing a lot of reading I'm definitely intrigued, though think I need to think out a proper strategy rather than jumping right into it...


----------



## SMHarman

tacopizzabob said:


> Howdy all, First time poster (possibly last time, we'll see).
> 
> I visited Ka'anapali this weekend my wife and we surprisingly bought into Nanea after the presentation.  I had never previously even considered buying a timeshare, and I've since done lots of research (lots on this board, so thanks) and I'm going to take the advice @DeniseM offered someone else and rescind my purchase.  This gives me the time to do due diligence and make sure it's the right thing for us.
> 
> However, I noticed a lot of discussion in here about the kitchnettes, and just wanted to say that my paperwork clearly states that the fridge is full-size.
> 
> It says: "Fully equipped kitchen includes range with oven, microwave, full-size refrigerator, dishwasher, coffee maker, toaster, blender and dinnerware".  (all REFRIGERATORS in all villa plans state full-sized)
> 
> Also, for bedsize, it states "Master bedroom with king-sized Westin Heavenly Bed and HD TV". (all beds in all villa plans are king-sized).
> 
> I still currently have all of the paperwork so if you have other specific questions you can ask me.
> 
> Thanks all!


Hi do you have access to a scanning copier. If not and you feel comfortable you coukd mail the docs to me ans I could pdf them for the group. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## taterhed

speaking of which....have you ever had taco-pizza?  It's really good (or at least some are!)  Welcome.

 That rescind should save you a fist full of dollars!


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## tacopizzabob

taterhed said:


> speaking of which....have you ever had taco-pizza?  It's really good (or at least some are!)  Welcome.
> 
> That rescind should save you a fist full of dollars!



Yup, I like taco pizza also!  And the rescind is going to get me a fist full of dollars back that I shouldn't have spent in the first place   live and learn, at least I'm learning quickly while still in my rescind period!


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## Ty1on

tacopizzabob said:


> I like taco pizza



Is that anything like Taco Smell's Mexican Pizza?


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## PamMo

tacopizzabob said:


> ...And the rescind is going to get me a fist full of dollars back that I shouldn't have spent in the first place   live and learn, at least I'm learning quickly while still in my rescind period!



It's really amazing that we'll buy something so expensive on impulse, isn't it? You are definitely not the first, nor will you be the last. Buying that wonderful timeshare at the sales presentations sounds SO good at the time! I'm happy for you that you figured out you need more time to think about it, and were able to rescind.  You'll have plenty of opportunities to buy a timeshare that you are SURE you want!


----------



## tacopizzabob

SMHarman said:


> Hi do you have access to a scanning copier. If not and you feel comfortable you coukd mail the docs to me ans I could pdf them for the group.
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk



I think I sent you a PM (but can't find in my sent folder).  Anyway, I have scanned the relevant documents and floor plans, but I'm not able to attach anything.  If you can give me your email I can send them through and then you can probably attach for everyone.
Thanks,
Bob


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## gregb

*Construction Photos, Nanea*

Construction Photos of Nanea

Hope this posts OK.  It is my first try to post photos.

We are at WKORN this week, in Building 7, with an overlook of the Nanea construction.  They are going at it fast and furious.  Hope you find the photos interesting.

First an overview:






Now some close-ups.


----------



## GregT

gregb said:


>



Greg, 

Thanks for the picx and congrats on first posting (I remember how happy I was when I finally got it to work).

Can you pan to the left and show what the tree obstruction looks like?   From the trees near Honua Kai (?), I would think the view is pretty obstructed?

Interesting....

Best,

Greg


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## gregb

Greg,

They have done nothing about the trees, YET!  But you can be sure they will remove most of the Mesquite type trees in front of the resort once the project nears completion.  I expect they will leave the Mesquite trees on the stretch of beach in the open space area between the WKORN and Nanea.  If you look to the left of the construction area photo, you are seeing the trees directly in front of Nanea. 

Greg



GregT said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for the picx and congrats on first posting (I remember how happy I was when I finally got it to work).
> 
> Can you pan to the left and show what the tree obstruction looks like?   From the trees near Honua Kai (?), I would think the view is pretty obstructed?
> 
> Interesting....
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg


----------



## gregb

*Sticky for photos of Nanea?*

DeniseM,

Would it make sense to create a Sticky note with links to Nanea construction photos.  As TUGers visit over the next year, they could take photos and add them to the link.  It would give everyone a place to track the progress.

I am glad to contribute the photos I take this week.

Greg


----------



## gregb

One more photo of Nanea construction.  I stitched together a panorama of the site.  Not sure how well it will show on TUG.  It might be best if enlarged (Ctl +] or zoom in on sections of it.

Greg


----------



## SMHarman

tacopizzabob said:


> I think I sent you a PM (but can't find in my sent folder).  Anyway, I have scanned the relevant documents and floor plans, but I'm not able to attach anything.  If you can give me your email I can send them through and then you can probably attach for everyone.
> Thanks,
> Bob


Sent you a pm with my email address. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## tacopizzabob

SMHarman said:


> Sent you a pm with my email address.
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk



Did you receive the files? I sent you two of them yesterday.  Thanks, bob

They could maybe go here AND the new sticky Nanea thread?


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## DeniseM

tacopizzabob said:


> Did you receive the files? I sent you two of them yesterday.  Thanks, bob
> 
> They could maybe go here AND the new sticky Nanea thread?



The sticky is for pictures only, please.


----------



## tacopizzabob

DeniseM said:


> The sticky is for pictures only, please.



OK, the only reason i suggested though was the brochure has "pictures" of the layouts as well as marketing pictures... so didn't know if that counted as pictures.  They're aren't construction photos though, which is what's in that other thread obviously.


----------



## DeniseM

tacopizzabob said:


> OK, the only reason i suggested though was the brochure has "pictures" of the layouts as well as marketing pictures... so didn't know if that counted as pictures.  They're aren't construction photos though, which is what's in that other thread obviously.



Brochure pictures would be great - thank you!  I thought you were posting something like price lists, or other text that would generate discussion. 

*However, please don't post the same pictures in both places, TUG has a rule against duplicate posts.


----------



## SMHarman

tacopizzabob said:


> Did you receive the files? I sent you two of them yesterday.  Thanks, bob
> 
> They could maybe go here AND the new sticky Nanea thread?


I did but work and kids have meant I have not tackled this yesterday. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## SMHarman

DeniseM said:


> The sticky is for pictures only, please.


No floor plan pdf?

I guess I should make the floorplans into pictures to comply. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## SMHarman

DeniseM said:


> Brochure pictures would be great - thank you!  I thought you were posting something like price lists, or other text that would generate discussion.
> 
> *However, please don't post the same pictures in both places, TUG has a rule against duplicate posts.


Ah got it. Read the whole thread first!

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## SMHarman

DeniseM said:


> Brochure pictures would be great - thank you!  I thought you were posting something like price lists, or other text that would generate discussion.
> 
> *However, please don't post the same pictures in both places, TUG has a rule against duplicate posts.





tacopizzabob said:


> Did you receive the files? I sent you two of them yesterday.  Thanks, bob
> 
> They could maybe go here AND the new sticky Nanea thread?


Posted to the sticky. 

Denise you can clean up our conversation in there now and delete those two posts. 

I put placeholders in initially to plan the brochure load and make sure others did not post into the sequence. There was method to the apparent madness. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM

SMHarman said:


> Posted to the sticky.
> 
> Denise you can clean up our conversation in there now and delete those two posts.
> 
> I put placeholders in initially to plan the brochure load and make sure others did not post into the sequence. There was method to the apparent madness.
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk



Good planning!  Thank you so much for posting those!


----------



## PamMo

Fascinating photos you posted, SMHarman. Thank you and tacopizzabob for all the good info!

My first thoughts are that the kitchen and master bedroom layouts look almost exactly like Phase 1 of HGVC's Kingsland on the Big Island. The big soaking tub in the middle of the open MBath takes up way too much space, and the living area is nice, but small. Our family thought the Kingsland 2BR units were tight for two couples and two children. And the Nanea LR/DR/kitchen seems especially small for a 3BR! Too bad they don't have large lanais to expand outdoor living space like the Ka'anapali Hyatt timeshares have. The view from all the units is better at the Hyatt, too, I'm afraid. The Nanea footprint means a lot of rooms are going to have limited/obstructed views.


----------



## tacopizzabob

SMHarman said:


> I did but work and kids have meant I have not tackled this yesterday.
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk



Thanks, and GREAT job adding them all as separate posts.  FYI - there was no image on the back of the booklet.  It was blank with the exception of a few lines of copyright text.  No biggie, but just wanted you to know that you weren't some amazing piece of artwork that would have made it some incredible special deal


----------



## gregb

Looking at the kitchen in the renderings, it is apparent that they have been designed by a non-cook.  Now I see why they call them kitchenettes.  There is no counter space to speak of.  Maybe this is to appease the Maui Mayor's dislike of time shares.  If the kitchens are too small, folks will have to eat out often.

I think the kitchen would be better if they changed the full wall storage cabinet next to the refrigerator into a lower cabinet with counter top, and wall cabinet above.  At least then there would be some place to do your prep work.

The renderings seem to imply that the kitchen table will be counter height, so it looks sort of like a kitchen island on the drawings and floor plans.   But of course if you use it as such, you will need to clean it up before you can sit down to eat.  And how many kids do well at counter height tables and tall chairs?

The same sized living room for all three unit sizes?  I think it will be awfully small for a three bedroom unit.  It only has easy chairs/couch seating for 4.  Where do the other 2-6 occupants sit?

And to call the building 4 hammer-head Ocean Front, when its view is restricted by buildings 1 and 8, is even more of a stretch than the OF designation for building 5 & 8 at WKORN.  At least at WKORN, you have a good idea of your OF will have.  I would not be a happy camper if I paid for OF and was stuck in building 4.

Finally, the concierge said that they were told that Nanea would NOT be sharing pools with WKOR/N.  Who knows what will actually be the case.  Only time will tell. 

All in all, it is not looking like a property or layout that I want to purchase.  I'll stick with my two weeks as WKORN.

Greg


----------



## OKPACIFIC

*Notes from owner updates*

Some notes from our owners update:

 1. The hammer heads are configured as follows from left to right on each hammerhead.
Building 8 (6 floors): 3br / 2br / 3br
Building 4 (5 floors): 2br / 3br / 2br
Building 1 (6 floors): 3br /2br /3br
The corner bedrooms of the hammerheads do not wrap around

2. New money requirements:
Ocean front $75k Resort view $35K

3. Maintenance fees not like coral vista (fixed and variable components per contract) but rather a straight per option fee regardless of how many options purchased. MF per option higher for Ocean Front vs Resort view.

4. First occupancy Aug 2017


----------



## DeniseM

How many did you buy?


----------



## OKPACIFIC

Bought em all, they are all gone. Sorry about that.


----------



## wannagotoo

Well, just read the whole thing and don't see the information we got yesterday. Perhaps this goes in a different topic. We were told that the existing owners of ocean front WKORV-N would receive a bump in the number  of star options for their units, to be consistent with the new location. I have a bit more info but not sure this is the right place to post.

This will happen without an increase in MF's.


----------



## DeniseM

wannagotoo said:


> Well, just read the whole thing and don't see the information we got yesterday. Perhaps this goes in a different topic. We were told that the existing owners of ocean front WKORV-N would receive a bump in the number  of star options for their units, to be consistent with the new location. I have a bit more info but not sure this is the right place to post.
> 
> This will happen without an increase in MF's.



Yes - that's correct - it has been increased.


----------



## gregb

The increase doesn't happen unit 2017.  For 2016 it is still the old values.


----------



## wannagotoo

My understanding that ocean view can still be upgraded to ocean front IF AVAILABLE and there will be no additional options charge, right? And that applies only if it is at check in. Is there a thread on this? To me it seemed that it would be much harder to upgrade to an ocean front.


----------



## Helios

wannagotoo said:


> My understanding that ocean view can still be upgraded to ocean front IF AVAILABLE and there will be no additional options charge, right? And that applies only if it is at check in. Is there a thread on this? To me it seemed that it would be much harder to upgrade to an ocean front.



That would be my guess.  However, I would not mind spending the extra SOs to  know I am getting OF in advance.  But that's just me.


----------



## Hot cheese

*Just bought Nanea and having remorse*

Hi, first, this is my first vacation ownership purchase.  I'm an avid SPG user,
Familiar with points, use Amex SPG, and get gold status free with Amex platinum.

So we came down to Westin Maui Hotel, got the pitch and bought yesterday.  2br OF $77,000 which equates 177,000 Star Options for 1 week.  This is a deeded property and they gave us 3 star elite status because we hit 177,000 options.  The maintenance fee is $3,200 per year.  If we cashed in the Star Options for SPG points it's about 95,000.  As for perks, they initially gave us 120,000 SPG points but I negotiated up to 160,000.  Then they also give gold for life, I negotiated for a resort credit, and they include the ability to buy 90k points for $1900 4 times before December 1 2017. 

Now, I'm having major remorse.  I'm pretty good at racking up points because I travel for work and stay at SPG and can use my SPG Amex card.  I'm having a hard time with paying $77k plus $3200 a year for a vacation I know I can score using my points or find a cheaper deal through my own capabilities.

Help me out folks. I'm on the verge of rescinding and not seeing the upside.  I think I was enamored with all the SPG points but I don't want to have the maintenance fee hanging over my head.  I read a ton of posts on here saying to buy on eBay second hand and think I am just silly for doing this.


----------



## Hot cheese

There is no ocean front.  It is 1BR and 2BR Resort View or 2BR and 3BR Ocean Front only.


----------



## pchung6

Hot cheese said:


> Hi, first, this is my first vacation ownership purchase.  I'm an avid SPG user,
> Familiar with points, use Amex SPG, and get gold status free with Amex platinum.
> 
> So we came down to Westin Maui Hotel, got the pitch and bought yesterday.  2br OF $77,000 which equates 177,000 Star Options for 1 week.  This is a deeded property and they gave us 3 star elite status because we hit 177,000 options.  The maintenance fee is $3,200 per year.  If we cashed in the Star Options for SPG points it's about 95,000.  As for perks, they initially gave us 120,000 SPG points but I negotiated up to 160,000.  Then they also give gold for life, I negotiated for a resort credit, and they include the ability to buy 90k points for $1900 4 times before December 1 2017.
> 
> Now, I'm having major remorse.  I'm pretty good at racking up points because I travel for work and stay at SPG and can use my SPG Amex card.  I'm having a hard time with paying $77k plus $3200 a year for a vacation I know I can score using my points or find a cheaper deal through my own capabilities.
> 
> Help me out folks. I'm on the verge of rescinding and not seeing the upside.  I think I was enamored with all the SPG points but I don't want to have the maintenance fee hanging over my head.  I read a ton of posts on here saying to buy on eBay second hand and think I am just silly for doing this.



Rescind now. Immediately. I'm pretty sure you can find 2 bedroom Westin Maui ocean view for $10-15k from resale.  

Again Rescind now, you have only few days left.


----------



## Ken555

Hot cheese said:


> Hi, first, this is my first vacation ownership purchase.  I'm an avid SPG user,
> Familiar with points, use Amex SPG, and get gold status free with Amex platinum.
> 
> So we came down to Westin Maui Hotel, got the pitch and bought yesterday.  2br OF $77,000 which equates 177,000 Star Options for 1 week.  This is a deeded property and they gave us 3 star elite status because we hit 177,000 options.  The maintenance fee is $3,200 per year.  If we cashed in the Star Options for SPG points it's about 95,000.  As for perks, they initially gave us 120,000 SPG points but I negotiated up to 160,000.  Then they also give gold for life, I negotiated for a resort credit, and they include the ability to buy 90k points for $1900 4 times before December 1 2017.
> 
> Now, I'm having major remorse.  I'm pretty good at racking up points because I travel for work and stay at SPG and can use my SPG Amex card.  I'm having a hard time with paying $77k plus $3200 a year for a vacation I know I can score using my points or find a cheaper deal through my own capabilities.
> 
> Help me out folks. I'm on the verge of rescinding and not seeing the upside.  I think I was enamored with all the SPG points but I don't want to have the maintenance fee hanging over my head.  I read a ton of posts on here saying to buy on eBay second hand and think I am just silly for doing this.




Rescind now. No upside to keeping, given your post. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Hot cheese

*Thanks*

I will rescind.  This was for Nanea, btw. We came to Westin Maui for vacation.  Sorry for failing to be clear before.  Does that change anyone's perspective?  We are still at the hote until Sunday and have some time to rescind while here


----------



## DeniseM

What other posters are advising is that you can buy an Ocean View, or Ocean Front deed at the _Original Resort_ (which has GREAT Ocean Front Views) for far less money, and a much lower maintenance fee - about $1,000 per year less.

But I wouldn't buy, unless you want to visit the resort every year.


----------



## Hot cheese

Thank you.  Just making sure this new Nanea property and my package wasn't some special
Hotness.  This site is great and you're all awesome.
 I'll definitely be back ok for researching.


----------



## DeniseM

Hot cheese said:


> Thank you.  Just making sure this new Nanea property and my package wasn't some special
> Hotness.  This site is great and you're all awesome.
> I'll definitely be back ok for researching.



To be quite honest with you, Starwood just re-churned the same old thing, re-packaged it, and jacked up the price.  

You will get Staroptions if you buy resale in the origianal phase as well, and pay a fraction of the cost.

The one-time incentives are not worth the thousands more you will pay to buy from the developer.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Congrats on finding TUG in time.  
If you have more contact with Sales - stay strong, don't succumb - they are professional salespeople after all.


----------



## Hot cheese

*Rescinded*



DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats on finding TUG in time.
> If you have more contact with Sales - stay strong, don't succumb - they are professional salespeople after all.



Have to say, from the beginning of the process to rescinding, they were absolutely courteous, not pushy, respectful, and just all around considerate. I'm in sales so I know what schtick can be, these guys were really great.  I just signed the doc and took a copy.


----------



## Ken555

Hot cheese said:


> Have to say, from the beginning of the process to rescinding, they were absolutely courteous, not pushy, respectful, and just all around considerate. I'm in sales so I know what schtick can be, these guys were really great.  I just signed the doc and took a copy.




I need to find more clients like you.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Denise L

Went to our first owners update EVER yesterday at WKORV on what I think is our 15th visit here?!  I wanted to hear about Nanea and see a model but there wasn't a model to see.   Sales guy was great and it was a pleasant, no pressure experience .  It took a while to get prices, and then it was all sort of confusing because you can buy SOs for more or less than a week.  Hyatt is more upfront with their prices, but the SVO folks were very nice.  Anyhow, got the $100 resort credit which I will use to get a massage .


----------



## LisaH

Denise,
Enjoy your massage and your time on Maui! Hope you see lots of whales...


----------



## Denise L

LisaH said:


> Denise,
> Enjoy your massage and your time on Maui! Hope you see lots of whales...



Thanks, Lisa.  Crazy windy today and raining lightly now.  Hoping our whale watching tour goes as planned tomorrow and that this storm goes away!  We should get together when I get back home and trade timeshare stories .


----------



## taffy19

Hope you have a great stay, Denise, and see lots of whales tomorrow.   We will miss you this year.


----------



## Denise L

iconnections said:


> Hope you have a great stay, Denise, and see lots of whales tomorrow.   We will miss you this year.



Thanks, Emmy.  We came extra early this year to see the whales .  It's our first trip to Maui in February since 1989!  Seems less crowded than Easter week and so far, we are enjoying our stay, even the Nanea sales pitch!  Visited the Maui Humane Society today and spent a lot of time with all the cats.  They also had a lot of dogs and bunnies. They have really done a nice job improving the facilities since our visit last April, and our daughter donates her birthday and holiday money to help care for the animals .


----------



## taffy19

That is really nice of her and good to know that the facilities have improved.  Please, post some pictures of the whales.  Are you taking the Catamaran off the beach?


----------



## LisaH

Denise L said:


> Thanks, Lisa.  Crazy windy today and raining lightly now.  Hoping our whale watching tour goes as planned tomorrow and that this storm goes away!  We should get together when I get back home and trade timeshare stories .



Sounds good. Hope the weather gets better for the rest of the week...


----------



## JasonM

First post and a WKORV-NN purchaser.  While we chose not to rescind, I am glad we found TUG the day we signed!  I will be happy to share more details about our experience, but here is what we bought:


150,000 EOY RV Home Options for $32,250.  This includes:
70K SPG points
Lifetime SPG Gold status
Four certificates, each allowing purchase of 90K SPG points for $1,875 (all must be used by 12/31/17, or the end of our first use year)
Contracted option to purchase 150,000 Home Options for the even year (we purchased the odd) within the next year for $24,250.
We were not offered an option to purchase the 81K point EY package others have referenced (more on this below).  Because our travels usually include just my wife and myself, we will typically want to book a 1 BR.  

For reference, here is a breakdown of the 390 Villas planned for WKORV-NN:

1 BR RV: 48  Villas (in Buildings 3, 6, 7 & 8)
2 BR RV: 294 Villas (in Buildings 1-8)
2 BR OF: 16  Villas (in Buildings 4 & 8)
3 BR OF: 32  Villas (in Buildings 1, 4 & 8)​According to the disclosures, buildings 1-4 are in the first phase and buildings 5-8 are each their own phase.  Here is a breakdown for the 190 Villas in buildings 1-4 at WKORV-NN:

1 BR RV: 5   Villas (all in Building 3)
2 BR RV: 155 Villas (in Buildings 1-4)
2 BR OF: 10  Villas (all in Building 4)
3 BR OF: 20  Villas (in Buildings 1 and 4)​
The very few 1 BR Villas in the first phase of the project may have been why we weren’t offered the option of an 81K point package and concerns us slightly regarding availability of 1 BR Villas (more of which won’t be available until Buildings 6,7 & 8 open).  We will plan to book early and be flexible! 

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## capjak

JasonM said:


> First post and a WKORV-NN purchaser.  While we chose not to rescind, I am glad we found TUG the day we signed!  I will be happy to share more details about our experience, but here is what we bought:





Why not purchase the WKROVN resale every other year for island view $13,000 148K staroptions or Ocean Front 177K staroptions for $18,000?


----------



## JasonM

capjak said:


> Why not purchase the WKROVN resale every other year for island view $13,000 148K staroptions or Ocean Front 177K staroptions for $18,000?



For us, the flexibility with Home Options to check in any day and book 1-14 nights from 12-8 months won the day.  For our first TS, we agreed that we would not have bought without this flexibility.

The debate in our house, if we buy additional time, is whether to exercise our even year option at WKORV-NN for Home Option flexibility or to buy resale and save $$$.

That is why I am here...still learning the ropes.

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## DavidnRobin

JasonM said:


> First post and a WKORV-NN purchaser.  While we chose not to rescind, I am glad we found TUG the day we signed!  I will be happy to share more details about our experience, but here is what we bought:



This can go two ways:
1) Thanks for keeping the SVO boat afloat, or...
2) Rescind if you still can, and research BEFORE you buy (not after).

You can buy resale WKORV/N for much cheaper and get more SOs.  For example - you can buy WKORV OF (high $30Ks) and get ~175K SOs.  The SO-SP conversion is not a good deal with high MFs, and while the incentive SPs are nice - they are not worth the premium paid, and you can use the money saved to vacation.  Plus, resale WKORV/N OF can be resold for what was originally paid. You will not be able to do this with Nanea.

As discussed early in this thread - buying Nanea from SVO can be useful if looking at a fixed OF villa. Other than that - why buy?

YMMV - and likely does since you appear to have convinced yourself with the info that Sales gave you.  I recommend looking at these numbers - Nanea is way over priced. IMO  Also, you should buy resale first if you are considering buying from SVO - so you can requal the resale into the SVO system.  You really should look into this...

Disclosure - we bought WKORV OFD resale, and then requalified it with a SVO WPORV EOY purchase. WKORV offers true OF villas unlike WKORVN and Nanea. Also own WSJ and WKV resale. It was a mistake to buy WPORV from SVO (even with all of our SVO incentives) considering we paid $24K for something that is now worth ~$5K.


----------



## DavidnRobin

JasonM - did you know that you can buy a resale SVO VOI and then requalify with a purchase from SVO.

For example - you can buy a Plat SDO for around $3000 (MF ~$1100) that has 148.1K SO (EY) associated with it that if requalified with your EOY Nanea purchase these SOs can be used for SVN exchanges (or can be converted to SPs).  Plus, other SVO VOIs can be bought (resale) and requalified as well.  

You really should follow the 3 Rs of TUG (Rescind, Research, Resale) - with the 4th R being Requal...

It is generally a poor decision to buy something at this high premium (plus ongoing MFs) without researching first. Lack of research is what TS salespeople thrive upon.
btw - I bought OF WKORVN from SVO (for $74K!!!) and luckily found TUG and rescinded - great decision - saved me $10000s. Plus, I rent the studio side, and offset the high MFs so the 1Bd OF (corner) side costs us ~$200/nite


----------



## DavidnRobin

JasonM said:


> 150,000 EOY RV Home Options for $32,250.  This includes:
> 70K SPG points
> Lifetime SPG Gold status
> Four certificates, each allowing purchase of 90K SPG points for $1,875 (all must be used by 12/31/17, or the end of our first use year)
> Contracted option to purchase 150,000 Home Options for the even year (we purchased the odd) within the next year for $24,250.



You make no mention of the annual fees - this is important as these never end and always go up

- You can buy resale WKORVN OF EY for low $20K worth ~175K SOs (MF ~$2600)
- Those 70K SPs are worth ~$1500
- Gold status is not that valuable - please it can be achieved by using an AMEX - SPG card and spending $30K per year ($95 annual fee waived for 1st year)
- Please - refrain from throwing good money after bad.


----------



## serendip7

*Thanks TUGBBS*

Just bought a 2 BR resort view at Nanea.  Retro 'd a WKORVN 2BR island (10k) and a Bella annual (5k) and gave back a Key West annual (returned for 17.5k, bought at 6k) to make 4 star.  Had to shell out $40k in the end so bottom line was 40+10+5+6=61k for a 2BR WKORVN island annual, 2BR Nanea annual and Bella annual.  148100+150000+67100=365200 star options.  

I wouldn't have known about the retro and buyback equity options without TUG... The salesmen were clueless.  I had to "suggest" over and over until they took it to their manager and realized I could do this.

Oh.. Also got 60k spg, and 4 certificates for 90k spg at $1875 each.


----------



## DavidnRobin

^^^^^ Not bad especially considering that SVO sold WKORVN IV for ~$48K.

JasonM - this is an excellent example of a reason to buy resale first if you are going to make a purchase thru SVO.


----------



## JasonM

David - you bring up excellent points in your posts and it is very hard to argue with serendip7.  That is extremely impressive!

Our comfort level with our first TS was to buy from the developer and we wanted the flexibility of Home Options.  Had we bought on the secondary market, we'd be more locked down to check-in days and length of stay than we'd like.  Star Options are an unknown to us.  If I can't book other resorts when I want to go, they aren't all that useful.

BTW, our MF's were quoted as *$1371* plus SVN fees.

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## DeniseM

If you buy at the existing Maui resort - both north and south phases, on the resale market, *you get Staroptions* - they work the same as home options, for a fraction of the developer cost.  

-You can use them to make reservations at other Starwood resorts.
-You can use them for variable length stays.

Of course, the sales person isn't going to tell you that…  

Please read our FAQ, while you are still in the rescission period:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224


----------



## SmithOp

JasonM said:


> BTW, our MF's were quoted as $1333 plus SVN fees.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason




Is that on the usage EOY years or every year?


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## DeniseM

It's every other year:





> 150,000 EOY RV Home Options for $32,250. This includes:


  So one *use year* is about $2,926…  

Here is the other thing - buying at the Maui resort and using the Staroptions at other resorts is a poor value, because you are trading a really expensive timeshare with high maintenance fees, for a much less expensive timeshare, with lower maintenance fee, in most cases.  In other words, you are trading a Mercedes for a Chevy...

If you don't want to go to Maui every other year, you should not buy there at all, because you can buy at a resort with Staroptions _somewhere else_ for far less money, to use for Staroption trading.  

For instance, on the resale market, you can acquire deeds with Staroptions at Sheraton Vistana Villages for $0-3,000, to use for trading.


----------



## Denise L

serendip7 said:


> Just bought a 2 BR resort view at Nanea.  Retro 'd a WKORVN 2BR island (10k) and a Bella annual (5k) and gave back a Key West annual (returned for 17.5k, bought at 6k) to make 4 star.  Had to shell out $40k in the end so bottom line was 40+10+5+6=61k for a 2BR WKORVN island annual, 2BR Nanea annual and Bella annual.  148100+150000+67100=365200 star options.
> 
> I wouldn't have known about the retro and buyback equity options without TUG... The salesmen were clueless.  I had to "suggest" over and over until they took it to their manager and realized I could do this.
> 
> Oh.. Also got 60k spg, and 4 certificates for 90k spg at $1875 each.



We were told we had to spend at least $70,000 in new money.  Sounds like you spent $40,000?


----------



## JasonM

DeniseM said:


> If you buy at the existing Maui resort - both north and south phases, on the resale market, *you get Staroptions* - they work the same as home options, for a fraction of the developer cost.
> 
> -You can use them to make reservations at other Starwood resorts.
> -You can use them for variable length stays.
> 
> Of course, the sales person isn't going to tell you that…
> 
> Please read our FAQ, while you are still in the rescission period:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224



Except that Star Option reservations can only be booked beginning 8 months prior to arrival.  This is a key issue for us in considering whether to buy additional VOI's via resale.  

In other words, how easy or difficult is it actually book what you want, when you want, using Star Options?  If its a royal PITA, it may not be worth it if I am buying an additional VOI for the primary purpose of staying places other than my home resort (for example).

BTW, for clarification I am no longer in the recision period and have read extensively on TUG during and after the recision period.  I have read and understand my contract and am working through the 800 pages of disclosures.  And while I reserve the right to change my mind we are, on balance, happy with our decision.  YMMV. 

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## JasonM

SmithOp said:


> Is that on the usage EOY years or every year?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk



I updated my post above to reflect the actual amount of $1371 plus SVN fees each year for a 150K EOY RV package.  In other words, it would be a bit under $3K for a 150K EY package.

My apologies, I was working from memory earlier.  I won't do that again...

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## JasonM

DeniseM said:


> It's every other year:  So one *use year* is about $2,926…
> 
> Here is the other thing - buying at the Maui resort and using the Staroptions at other resorts is a poor value, because you are trading a really expensive timeshare with high maintenance fees, for a much less expensive timeshare, with lower maintenance fee, in most cases.  In other words, you are trading a Mercedes for a Chevy...
> 
> If you don't want to go to Maui every other year, you should not buy there at all, because you can buy at a resort with Staroptions _somewhere else_ for far less money, to use for Staroption trading.
> 
> For instance, on the resale market, you can acquire deeds with Staroptions at Sheraton Vistana Villages for $0-3,000, to use for trading.



But if the Chevy is in St. John, and I only need it for the occasional week, I will leave the Mercedes in the garage in California and rent the Chevy in St. John. 

Point taken regarding Maui being an expensive place to exchange from, but we do intend to visit there regularly.  Without the benefit of actual booking experience, it would seem to me that if using SO's to book an exchange in places like Maui and St. John worked so well, no one would buy in Hawaii or St. John.  Rather, they would buy something like Sheraton Vistana Villages and go to Hawaii or St. John every year.  I suspect this strategy doesn't work so well on a consistent basis, which is why Westin is building a new resort in Ka'anapali.  I am of course, open to feedback on this.

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## DeniseM

JasonM said:


> I suspect this strategy doesn't work so well on a consistent basis, which is why Westin is building a new resort in Ka'anapali.  I am of course, open to feedback on this.



Actually, it works quite well, but new buyers usually don't know about their other options, until it's too late.

However, even if you prefer to buy on Maui for the owner's priority to make a reservation at 12 mos. - and that's a good strategy - _you can do far better on the resale market.
_
For what you are paying, you could buy an every year, ocean front, 2 bdm., and have a lower maintenance fee.  ($2,421.)  

Then if you didn't want to go every year, you could rent every other year for around $4,300 - $4,500 for a prime week, and pay for most of your maintenance fees.


----------



## SmithOp

JasonM said:


> I updated my post above to reflect the actual amount of $1371 plus SVN fees each year for a 150K EOY RV package.  In other words, it would be a bit under $3K for a 150K EY package.
> 
> My apologies, I was working from memory earlier.  I won't do that again...
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason


No worries, I just wanted to be sure you understood the true usage cost, and anyone else who may search and read this.  It sounds like you are happy with the purchase and have the money to spend. Some people get misled by the sales speil which understates the cost by quoting the annual fee on an eoy.

I have a totally different approach, trading in through Interval for a parking lot view in the off season, it suits us fine and my cost is under $1100 trading Vistana.

Sent from my STUDIO ENERGY using Tapatalk


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## JasonM

Thanks Denise!

The flexibility of being able to book any LOS and check in any day of the week with Home Options at 12 months is only available at Nanea and was one of the key reasons we bought from the developer.  I respect that this may not seem worth the delta relative to the secondary market for some folks, but it isn't always just about the money.  Who would go to Hawaii if economics were the prime consideration! 

We could have waited a few years for Nanea to show up on the secondary market, or bought WKORV/N on the secondary market and maybe even requalified it with a later Nanea purchase, but we aren't getting any younger and felt the time was right.  I suspect our journey won't end with this purchase, so perhaps I will have the opportunity to redeem myself down the line with a resale purchase. 

Thanks for engaging with me and I sincerely look forward to being a part of the community and continuing to learn from you all.

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## DeniseM

If I can't talk you down off the ledge - welcome!  

FULL DISCLOSURE:  Many moons ago, I bought from the developer the first time, too.


----------



## JasonM

DeniseM said:


> If I can't talk you down off the ledge - welcome!
> 
> FULL DISCLOSURE:  Many moons ago, I bought from the developer the first time, too.



Thanks Denise!  Very much appreciated.


----------



## DavidnRobin

JasonM said:


> Thanks Denise!  Very much appreciated.



Didn't know you were beyond rescission period. Enjoy.


----------



## elleny76

Jason congratulations!  and enjoy it. Its good to read new buyers are happy with their timeshares...




JasonM said:


> But if the Chevy is in St. John, and I only need it for the occasional week, I will leave the Mercedes in the garage in California and rent the Chevy in St. John.
> 
> Point taken regarding Maui being an expensive place to exchange from, but we do intend to visit there regularly.  Without the benefit of actual booking experience, it would seem to me that if using SO's to book an exchange in places like Maui and St. John worked so well, no one would buy in Hawaii or St. John.  Rather, they would buy something like Sheraton Vistana Villages and go to Hawaii or St. John every year.  I suspect this strategy doesn't work so well on a consistent basis, which is why Westin is building a new resort in Ka'anapali.  I am of course, open to feedback on this.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason


----------



## LisaRex

JasonM said:


> Point taken regarding Maui being an expensive place to exchange from, but we do intend to visit there regularly.  Without the benefit of actual booking experience, it would seem to me that if using SO's to book an exchange in places like Maui and St. John worked so well, no one would buy in Hawaii or St. John.



You've kind of made a point against yourself here, because if that was truly the case, it'd been far more economical for you to buy in Hawaii on the resale market, even upgraded to ocean front...and then just enjoyed the heck out of your home resort!

Anywho, since you're past the recission period, there is really nothing left to do than to enjoy your ownership.  Providing unbiased data to people like you, so that you can make informed decisions, is one of the primary reasons we long-timers stick around.  So congratulations on owning a great resort! Wishing you many happy vacations in the future!

FYI, I used to own at WKORV-N, so I really do understand why you fell in love with Maui.  Just wish it wasn't sooo far away from the Midwest.   A few years ago, I downgraded to SVV, and I don't regret it for a minute.  Owning EY on Maui w/ 148,100 (now 176,700, argh!) SOs was just too much for us because we like to explore the world, not just the SVN network.

FTR, since 2007, I've successfully landed all but one SO exchange attempt (February ski week). I exchanged to WKV, SVVx2, SDO, WKORV, HRAx2, and WSJx3.  (Hint: I've discovered that HRA gets the best response in the direct exchange section of the Tug classifieds, if you want to explore other timeshare systems.)

I will admit that the best exchanges seem to be getting harder, in part because SVN seems to be monkeying around with the system, but overall it has worked just fine for me, with the caveat that I am no longer chained to a school calendar.


----------



## serendip7

Denise L said:


> We were told we had to spend at least $70,000 in new money.  Sounds like you spent $40,000?



Yes, 40k in new money.  The 2BR Nanea annual resort view was around 58k.  (don't have the exact number in front of me atm) and got 17.5k equity for the Key West I bought for 6k.


----------



## Denise L

We were told we had to spend at least $70K in new money.  Maybe that is for the OF units?


----------



## capjak

Here is the deal that made me think about developer purchase.

145,000 star options at nanea $55100
Equity upgrade SVV $18320 resale purchase so $37625 after equity trade
0 cash out of pocket for 90 day
Plus 60,000 star points plus 4x90000 cents at $1875 each purchase within 2 years

Than to get to 4 star additional 74000 star options at nanea retro WKORV North OF $28120 plus 80,000 star points plus 4x90000 Cert T $1875 each

Total star option 395700

Explorer package 50,000 star points 7 nights in studio $2800


----------



## okwiater

capjak said:


> Here is the deal that made me think about developer purchase.
> 
> <...>



There are definitely cases where a developer purchase can make sense... depending on the individual's goals and whether it is part of a _strategy_ to achieve a certain goal. The rules of thumb stipulate that a developer purchase _without_ a retro or equity trade is almost never a good idea.


----------



## bizaro86

capjak said:


> Here is the deal that made me think about developer purchase.
> 
> 145,000 star options at nanea $55100
> Equity upgrade SVV $18320 resale purchase so $37625 after equity trade
> 0 cash out of pocket for 90 day
> Plus 60,000 star points plus 4x90000 cents at $1875 each purchase within 2 years
> 
> Than to get to 4 star additional 74000 star options at nanea retro WKORV North OF $28120 plus 80,000 star points plus 4x90000 Cert T $1875 each
> 
> Total star option 395700
> 
> Explorer package 50,000 star points 7 nights in studio $2800



Would they not let you do both a requal and a equity trade on the same purchase?


----------



## okwiater

bizaro86 said:


> Would they not let you do both a requal and a equity trade on the same purchase?



Not sure this is the case for all purchase combinations, but I was told that requal and equity trade are now mutually exclusive. You can only do one or the other.


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## Denise L

When Nanea is available for resale and since SOs don't transfer, what will a person get since check-in days are any day and different days have different values?  If someone bought enough SOs for 5 night in a 3 bedroom OF, what would the new owner get?  Sorry if this question has been answered already.  This is the first time SVO is selling less than or more than a week, so I am curious how a resale would work.


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## DavidnRobin

Denise L said:


> When Nanea is available for resale and since SOs don't transfer, what will a person get since check-in days are any day and different days have different values?  If someone bought enough SOs for 5 night in a 3 bedroom OF, what would the new owner get?  Sorry if this question has been answered already.  This is the first time SVO is selling less than or more than a week, so I am curious how a resale would work.



They will be buying HomeResort Options that can only be used to reserve Nanea.
The usage will depend on the 2 available view types, and number of HomeResort options purchased.


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## capjak

okwiater said:


> Not sure this is the case for all purchase combinations, but I was told that requal and equity trade are now mutually exclusive. You can only do one or the other.



I did not push it but they wanted it to be two separate transactions.  There may have been room for negotiation but I had already determined I was not going to do it so did not push it.


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## JasonM

elleny76 said:


> Jason congratulations!  and enjoy it. Its good to read new buyers are happy with their timeshares...





LisaRex said:


> You've kind of made a point against yourself here, because if that was truly the case, it'd been far more economical for you to buy in Hawaii on the resale market, even upgraded to ocean front...and then just enjoyed the heck out of your home resort!
> 
> Anywho, since you're past the recission period, there is really nothing left to do than to enjoy your ownership.  Providing unbiased data to people like you, so that you can make informed decisions, is one of the primary reasons we long-timers stick around.  So congratulations on owning a great resort! Wishing you many happy vacations in the future!
> 
> FYI, I used to own at WKORV-N, so I really do understand why you fell in love with Maui.  Just wish it wasn't sooo far away from the Midwest.   A few years ago, I downgraded to SVV, and I don't regret it for a minute.  Owning EY on Maui w/ 148,100 (now 176,700, argh!) SOs was just too much for us because we like to explore the world, not just the SVN network.
> 
> FTR, since 2007, I've successfully landed all but one SO exchange attempt (February ski week). I exchanged to WKV, SVVx2, SDO, WKORV, HRAx2, and WSJx3.  (Hint: I've discovered that HRA gets the best response in the direct exchange section of the Tug classifieds, if you want to explore other timeshare systems.)
> 
> I will admit that the best exchanges seem to be getting harder, in part because SVN seems to be monkeying around with the system, but overall it has worked just fine for me, with the caveat that I am no longer chained to a school calendar.



Thanks for the insight and good juju!   I am encouraged by your success with exchanges LisaRex, but it does seem that when these things change, it's often not for the better. We do plan to settle in and enjoy what we've bought.  While we believe the flexibility of Home Options at Nanea was worth it for us; we'll have the benefit of more experience with TUG, actual use with Nanea, and using SO's before we buy anything additional.  We're still working for a good while longer and do lots of other travel, so also want to be careful how much SVO we have.

Cheers,
Jason


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## paluamalia

*Mandatory resort resale value*

Does any one think that the mandatory feature of WKORVN will influence resale value? We will probably sell ours for 2018 and 2019 use.  Prefer cruises to Hawaii at this point.


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## SMHarman

paluamalia said:


> Does any one think that the mandatory feature of WKORVN will influence resale value? We will probably sell ours for 2018 and 2019 use.  Prefer cruises to Hawaii at this point.


The mandatory plus the rofr both influence resale value. Starwood creates a potential floor, through if you agree a price below that they only pay the price you agreed. Also your buyer still has exchange opportunities and to HRA and WSJ and the other HI Westin they are equivalent value.


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## DeniseM

paluamalia said:


> Does any one think that the mandatory feature of WKORVN will influence resale value? We will probably sell ours for 2018 and 2019 use.  Prefer cruises to Hawaii at this point.



Absolutely - Look at the price difference between Princeville, and WKORV-N/S to see the impact of Staroptions.

But what do you mean by "sell for 2018 and 2019"?  Do you mean "rent"?

Staroptions have no impact on renting.


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## paluamalia

We will probably sell 
One annual and one eoy


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## Jamy

We just got back from a week at WKORV-N on an explorer package. At the presentation they offered to sell us a 2BR RV, EOY for $31,000 after taking off $5,000 for our purchase of the explorer package. They were claiming that this was a 20% discount off what they have been selling at, but the price was only good while we were in Maui, would have been a payment of $444 a month for ten years and they offered to requal my SVV. I was really tempted, but we are possibly moving so the $444 a month was just not doable. So, they may be coming down on price. 

Oh, also interesting was that they were claiming that WKORV-N and WKORV-S are both completely sold out and we could never get a unit over there.. I tried not to roll my eyes at that. Also interesting is that they are only offering to requal specific resorts.

Just thought I would update on the current offers.


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## DeniseM

They are completely sold out, and have been for years, but that has nothing to do with the resale market, where there is constant turn over.

I'm so glad you escaped!


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## DavidnRobin

1st rule - they are not truthful. 20% discount?  Nope.  They can play with the incentives, but the basic price structures are fixed (for good reasons) - if they move then they move together.

Do not finance a TS unless you plan to pay it off in the short-term.

Nanea is a SVN Voluntary resort (HomeOption/StarOptions that can be used for SVN are not transferred to buyer upon resale). If history is any indication (compare WKORV/N and WPORV) - this will result in poor resale value.  It seems that many folks buying Nanea do not account for this in there purchase.


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## LisaRex

Think of the vacations you could take for $444 per month for 10 years! And that undoubtedly wasn't even ocean front.  That ends up being over $53,000 BEFORE the $20-30k in MFs you'd pay over the same period. 

Unless I had money to burn (e.g. without financing), and could afford OF at Nanea, there's no way I'd buy there. (And even then, I'd probably just rent there.)  The entire resort is coded either OF or Other.  If you buy Other, your villa could face the parking lot!


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## SMHarman

LisaRex said:


> Think of the vacations you could take for $444 per month for 10 years! And that undoubtedly wasn't even ocean front.  That ends up being over $53,000 BEFORE the $20-30k in MFs you'd pay over the same period.
> 
> Unless I had money to burn (e.g. without financing), and could afford OF at Nanea, there's no way I'd buy there. (And even then, I'd probably just rent there.)  The entire resort is coded either OF or Other.  If you buy Other, your villa could face the parking lot!


So a week in a 2 bed for 444x12+2500 so 7828 if the fall in value is to near zero.  Not sure what a premium week at prinvecille is worth. 

That's 7828 or 1118 a night. 
Picking week commencing May 7 a similar room is 789 a night (island view) or 899 ocean.  

5523 plus 13 pct. 6263. Cheaper to rent from starwood.


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## LisaRex

SMHarman said:


> 5523 plus 13 pct. 6263. Cheaper to rent from starwood.



Plus you get daily housekeeping if you rent from Starwood.  There's nothing to stop Jamy (or anyone) from simply setting aside $444 each month for a year, and then just renting from an owner. For $5300 (which doesn't the include MFs he avoided paying), he can splurge on OF and STILL have nearly a grand left to buy MaiTais or, my personal favorite: Tropical Monkeys. 

P.S. Though I'd argue that Nanea's resale value will not ever fall to zero, even with its voluntary designation.  WPORV still has some resale value and it's not nearly as popular as WKORV.  I do think the resale value will be much less than either of the mandatory locations.  First because SOs don't transfer upon resale, which I think sucks for all SVN member (because as time goes by and ownership changes hands, fewer units will be deposited into SVN for exchange).  But, IMO even more importantly because of that "Other" view designation.  I think that it was a HUGE mistake on Starwood's part to not distinguish OV or even IV from PLV (Parking Lot View).  I would personally never buy IV at WKORV or "Other" at Nanea.)

I mean, I cannot imagine my disappointment and fury were I assigned a PLV after agreeing to fork out $85,000 for the privilege of booking a 2 bdrm once per year.  I do not envy the front desk clerks when it's high season on Maui!

Aloha!


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## okwiater

LisaRex said:


> P.S. Though I'd argue that Nanea's resale value will not ever fall to zero, even with its voluntary designation.  WPORV still has some resale value and it's not nearly as popular as WKORV.  I do think the resale value will be much less than either of the mandatory locations.  First because SOs don't transfer upon resale, which I think sucks for all SVN member (because as time goes by and ownership changes hands, fewer units will be deposited into SVN for exchange).  But, IMO even more importantly because of that "Other" view designation.  I think that it was a HUGE mistake on Starwood's part to not distinguish OV or even IV from PLV (Parking Lot View).  I would personally never buy IV at WKORV or "Other" at Nanea.)



I think Nanea Oceanfront may actually hold similar value to WKORV Oceanfront. You're right of course that WKORV is mandatory, but the floorplan is not nearly as ideal for families. The dedicated 3-bedroom units at Nanea, with the dead-on ocean views, are going to be really unique and highly desirable, even without StarOptions. (And nobody in their right mind would trade such a unit for StarOptions anyway with the MFs and rental potential.)


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## SMHarman

LisaRex said:


> Plus you get daily housekeeping if you rent from Starwood.  There's nothing to stop Jamy (or anyone) from simply setting aside $444 each month for a year, and then just renting from an owner. For $5300 (which doesn't the include MFs he avoided paying), he can splurge on OF and STILL have nearly a grand left to buy MaiTais or, my personal favorite: Tropical Monkeys.
> 
> P.S. Though I'd argue that Nanea's resale value will not ever fall to zero, even with its voluntary designation.  WPORV still has some resale value and it's not nearly as popular as WKORV.  I do think the resale value will be much less than either of the mandatory locations.
> 
> Aloha!



I agree it will retain some value but this was back of the envelope and I was throwing that important assumption out there. 

That said even if resale is 10k for resort view the math presented does nit change much. The cost for the owned week is still advice hotel rates and a OV owner rent is still better value. 



okwiater said:


> I think Nanea Oceanfront may actually hold similar value to WKORV Oceanfront.



Again I agree but the deal under discussion was for resort view


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## LisaRex

okwiater said:


> I think Nanea Oceanfront may actually hold similar value to WKORV Oceanfront.



I agree.  



			
				SMHarman said:
			
		

> That said even if resale is 10k for resort view the math presented does nit change much. The cost for the owned week is still advice hotel rates and a OV owner rent is still better value.



Absolutely agree, but just wanted to point out that it probably won't lose 100% of its value. 

Now that I think about it, other than the voluntary SVV/SVR and possibly outliers like the Port St. Lucie property, are there any Starwood TSs that have lost 100% of their value? IOW, owners have to give them away? 

That also has me wondering how Villas in Cave Creek are faring since they bucked SVN?  It looked like it could be a really unique place to stay,  and I have to say that I rather admired that they booted out their overlord, but I'll admit I haven't followed it at all.


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## SMHarman

LisaRex said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree, but just wanted to point out that it probably won't lose 100% of its value.
> 
> Now that I think about it, other than the voluntary SVV/SVR and possibly outliers like the Port St. Lucie property, are there any Starwood TSs that have lost 100% of their value? IOW, owners have to give them away?


Summer weeks in WKV have no value. 1450 mf and 700 rental value or easy exchange in II with anything. 

Similarly even HRA as near zero value units especially with the transfer costs.


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## dsmrp

SMHarman said:


> Summer weeks in WKV have no value. 1450 mf and 700 rental value or easy exchange in II with anything.
> 
> Similarly even HRA as near zero value units especially with the transfer costs.



I guess SDO and the two in Palm Desert area too in summer.



LisaRex said:


> That also has me wondering how Villas in Cave Creek are faring since they bucked SVN?  It looked like it could be a really unique place to stay,  and I have to say that I rather admired that they booted out their overlord, but I'll admit I haven't followed it at all.



I was down in Phoenix area in early January, and curious about Cave Creek.  It was a pretty funky area (in a good way), could see it had been a throw back to the 60's, earthy, non-conformist...  I didn't get to the Villas in Cave Creek itself, but if their owners were anything like their surrounding towns, I can certainly see them voting out Starwood


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## kds

serendip7 said:


> Just bought a 2 BR resort view at Nanea...



We just completed a similar trade-in+purchase+requal, purchasing a 2BR resort view at Nanea.

Purchased:

WKORV-NN 2BR RV 8 nights (60.8k) 
Requalified:

WKORV 2BR OV (18k)
SMV 2BR Winter Week (5k)
Traded-in:

SDO 2BR (purchased for 5k, traded-in for 19k)
Total Cost: 61 + 18 + 5 + 5 - 19 = $70,000
Total StarOptions: 160,000 + 148,100 + 148,100 = 456,200
Total StarPoints: 86,400 + 80,000 + 85,800 = 252,500


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## Markus

kds said:


> We just completed a similar trade-in+purchase+requal, purchasing a 2BR resort view at Nanea.
> 
> Purchased:
> 
> WKORV-NN 2BR RV 8 nights (60.8k)
> Requalified:
> 
> WKORV 2BR OV (18k)
> SMV 2BR Winter Week (5k)
> Traded-in:
> 
> SDO 2BR (purchased for 5k, traded-in for 19k)
> Total Cost: 61 + 18 + 5 + 5 - 19 = $70,000
> Total StarOptions: 160,000 + 148,100 + 148,100 = 456,200
> Total StarPoints: 86,400 + 80,000 + 85,800 = 252,500



They let you requalify two weeks? Normally it is one for one. Was your purchase somehow split in two, or did they make an exception?

Markus


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## Helios

Markus said:


> They let you requalify two weeks? Normally it is one for one. Was your purchase somehow split in two, or did they make an exception?
> 
> Markus



Probably because of the new $s the transaction generated.


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## capjak

The price per star option at WKORVNN seems to have increased since Feb 19 when I was quoted $0.38 per star option (i.e. $55100 for 145000 star options)  Will be interesting to see when it increases.


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## GregT

kds said:


> We just completed a similar trade-in+purchase+requal, purchasing a 2BR resort view at Nanea.
> 
> Purchased:
> 
> WKORV-NN 2BR RV 8 nights (60.8k)
> Requalified:
> 
> WKORV 2BR OV (18k)
> SMV 2BR Winter Week (5k)
> Traded-in:
> 
> SDO 2BR (purchased for 5k, traded-in for 19k)
> Total Cost: 61 + 18 + 5 + 5 - 19 = $70,000
> Total StarOptions: 160,000 + 148,100 + 148,100 = 456,200
> Total StarPoints: 86,400 + 80,000 + 85,800 = 252,500



Nanea looks like a terrific property, I know you will enjoy it!!

I am confused about the Requalify of the WKORV property.  I thought requalify worked only for Voluntary properties, not Mandatory?  I may be misunderstanding.  Please advise and thank you!

Best,

Greg


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## Sicnarf

GregT said:


> Nanea looks like a terrific property, I know you will enjoy it!!
> 
> I am confused about the Requalify of the WKORV property.  I thought requalify worked only for Voluntary properties, not Mandatory?  I may be misunderstanding.  Please advise and thank you!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



You get Starpoints in addition to Staroptions.


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## Helios

Sicnarf said:


> You get Starpoints in addition to Staroptions.



And SOs count towards Elite.


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## DeniseM

GregT said:


> I am confused about the Requalify of the WKORV property.  I thought requalify worked only for Voluntary properties, not Mandatory?  I may be misunderstanding.  Please advise and thank you!



If you buy a mandatory resort on the resale market, you get Staroptions, but you don't get Starpoints, and it doesn't count towards Elite Status.

"If" those things are important to you, then it may be worthwhile to requalify a mandatory resort.  

It probably is not a good value unless you are going for 5 Star Elite and you have the income and time to fully utilize the perks.


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## DavidnRobin

or...

If you are going to buy from SVO anyway (after thorough research which involves TUG, and intense soul searching  ) - might as well requal a resale Mandatory VOI (TS week) if that is all you have to offer.  A Voluntary resort has more requal value because regains SOs, but not always what is in a RESALE portfolio.
I did this.
YMMV


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## pedro47

That video is awesome!


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## pedro47

The photos of this new resort are awesome and I can understand why construction is moving so fast on this project. Everyone want an ocean front villa. These villas are selling like hot cakes I feel to new young timeshare owners, plus there are no resale villas for sales and that is my opinion only.


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## DeniseM

> That video is awesome!



Hi Pedro - Dave (who has the last post in this thread from April ) posted a *turtle/barracuda video *in a different, more recent thread - is that where you meant to post?


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## Smithsingeneva

Here is what I was offered at Nanea on my WKORVN stay this week.  I bought WKORVN 5 years ago.  Back then I found TUG at the pool before the presentation, decided to buy resale, went to the sales pitch and bought there knowing I was going to rescind (wanted examples of the real paperwork), went to the post office immediately afterward to send the recission, and hired Syed 3 months later to buy a 2BR OV resale.  I've never thanked all of you for your great advice.  We love our WKORVN resale unit - the developer salespeople are always amazed at how much less we paid.  Needless to say, we rejected this Nanea offer.  Thanks again for saving me and my family a ton of money.


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## rubbernyc

We were offered the lowest cost option of:

Annual 1BR, RV  81,000 SO, $30,780 and MF of $1440.06

We still did not want to pay that much since we could get a resale at WKORV for half that, so they "found" special inventory

Biennial ( odd years) 1BR, RV unit, 95,700 SO for $20,576 and MF of $850.

We bit on that since we need the extra time and have a waiting list of family and friends that want to travel with us.


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## capjak

Just a thought but why not buy a resale?  The 81,000 every year offer is a little less per staroption than the 95700 (which is equal to only 48,850 every year) $0.42 per staroption for the 95700 vs 0.38 for the 81,000.


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## DeniseM

If you are referring to Nanea - it is voluntary - no Staroptions on a resale.


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## vacationtime1

I'm confused about the 95700 SO offering at Nanea; what do you get that you don't get with the 81000 SO package?

A one bedroom RV unit requires 81000 SO's; iirc, there is nothing at Nanea requiring 95700 SO's.

So what do you get other than extra MF's along with 14700 SO's with no obvious use?


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## vacationtime1

capjak said:


> Just a thought but why not buy a resale?  The 81,000 every year offer is a little less per staroption than the 95700 (which is equal to only 48,850 every year) $0.42 per staroption for the 95700 vs 0.38 for the 81,000.



If your metric is the cost per SO, a high season (resale) at SVV Bella, SVV Key West, or Kierland (67100 unit) -- all mandatory resorts -- will get you your SO's for 25-50% less than that cost. If you want to consider the opportunity cost of the invested capital, a high season (resale) at SVV Bella, SVV Key West, or Kierland (67100 unit) will get you your SO's for about a fourth as much.

Besides, if you buy a mandatory resort resale, you have a chance of getting your money back when you sell; if you buy voluntary from the developer, you will lose 75%+ of your capital as soon as the rescission period ends.


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## ACE1

We were offered a 2 bdrm ocean view annual for $57,000 last week. Turned it down, they were surprised HA! Went back to our villa and called Syed. Now we're in escrow for a 2 bedroom, Ocean front EOY at WKORVN for about 1/4 price and 178,000 options. Excited!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Tucsonadventurer

jabak5 said:


> I guess we have been very lucky.  Have been to about 7 (at WKORVN and WLR) have never had any pressure.  Some have even been informative and never more than 30 minutes.  On the other hand, attended a presentation for the new Hyatt on Maui in Nov. 2014 and it was extremely high pressure even after we said we weren't interested but just wanted so information on their system.  Keep us the entire 90 minutes.  That unsold us on Hyatt.


That is unusual for Hyatt, we own 2 weeks and most presentations have been very low pressure except for 1 at Carmel where he was annoyed he even had to speak to folks who bought 2 resale units.
He basically said we shouldn't have been invited as we weren't going to buy and was very rude but not high pressure.


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## DavidnRobin

vacationtime1 said:


> I'm confused about the 95700 SO offering at Nanea; what do you get that you don't get with the 81000 SO package?
> 
> A one bedroom RV unit requires 81000 SO's; iirc, there is nothing at Nanea requiring 95700 SO's.
> 
> So what do you get other than extra MF's along with 14700 SO's with no obvious use?



I saw that was well - perhaps it is for >7 day stay? Remember, that these are HOs and do not have to be reserved in increments of 7 days, and can be used for checkin on any day of week (not just Fri, Sat, Sun)


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## rubbernyc

vacationtime1 said:


> I'm confused about the 95700 SO offering at Nanea; what do you get that you don't get with the 81000 SO package?
> 
> A one bedroom RV unit requires 81000 SO's; iirc, there is nothing at Nanea requiring 95700 SO's.
> 
> So what do you get other than extra MF's along with 14700 SO's with no obvious use?





DavidnRobin said:


> I saw that was well - perhaps it is for >7 day stay? Remember, that these are HOs and do not have to be reserved in increments of 7 days, and can be used for checkin on any day of week (not just Fri, Sat, Sun)



That's exactly it. They are trying to do 8 day sales. We have enough points for 8 days and can check in any day of the week. We decided to buy resale since we didn't want to wait for them to be available resale and it is a voluntary resort. We have already paid it off, so no finance charges or anything like that. We could have bought in the other Kaanapali properties, but preferred the home resort advantage and can upgrade to the 2 BR unit. Also, the MF are quite reasonable. Our next unit will be resale.


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## DavidnRobin

Confused? You bought Nanea - EOY-odd, 1BR, RV unit, 95,700 SO for $20,576 and MF of $850?
The $850 MF is yearly - so $1700 for the EOY use (to start, MFs are protected during sale period to keep them attractive, and tend to rise quickly). Also, that is EOY cost is equivalent to ~$41,000 EY cost.

Also, could have paid a lot less to buy EY or EOY WKORV/N resale - and gotten more SOs (148.1K SO for EY) that are VSN Mandatory. Or better yet, bought WKORV OF resale...

Rescind?


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## vacationtime1

So the extra day at Nanea (eight days vs. seven; 95700 SO's vs. 81000) will cost $300 in additional MF's + about $1,000 of opportunity cost on capital (10%/year x the $10K price difference -- adjusting for annual usage).  Is that extra night worth $1,300 each time you enjoy it?

I'm with David; rescind.


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## rubbernyc

Too late for us to rescind now....it is past the 7 day window.


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