# Marriott Caste System



## pgnewarkboy (Sep 12, 2006)

I just returned from the Marriott Barony Beach in Hilton Head.  I was allowed to request an ocean view room but when I got there I was advised that only Barony owners get ocean view, Marriott system exchangers get the next best building, and out of system exchangers get the building furthest from the beach.  They would not tell me if any ocean view units were availalbe.  I think all Marriott listings in II should have a disclaimer stating that exchangers will be treated like third class citizens.  Frankly, I think it is a rip-off and a disgrace.  My opinion of Marriott has dropped dramatically.


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

Marriott is not alone in giving priority to owners. 

Try reading some of the threads on similar topics related to exchanges into non-owned resorts on the Exchanging forum. Or read some of the threads related to Orange Lake Country Club ("OLCC") on the Florida forum. Many, many timeshares give preference to owners.

Each resort has a choice to make. Does it give preference to owners when assigning units, thus risking that exchangers will have bad things to say about an exchange, potentially lowering the exchange trading power for owners? Or should the resort treat all who stay there equally, thus upsetting owners and perhaps adversely affecting resale values?

There is no magic correct answer. Even owners at other Marriott resorts would be treated as "third class citizens" with respect to view when staying at Barony or most other Marriotts.

II does state in its rules that exchanges do not convey any specific rights to view-units, unless so stated in the exchange confirmation. Also, the Marriott view priority has been specifically discussed and detailed on this Marriott forum on numerous occasions over the years. See this thread, for example, especially post #19. 

A way around the problem is to do a direct exchange with an owner. Then you'll get the same view that the owner is entitled to.


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## short (Sep 12, 2006)

*Ownership has its privilages.*

Considering the fact that I usually trade into Marriotts with a week that costs less than $500 per week and cost me next to nothing to buy, I feel lucky that Marriott does not put me in a trailer in the parking lot.

Just another example of the motto, buy where and what you want to vacation in all the time.

Short


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## floyddl (Sep 12, 2006)

There are certain resorts in the Marriott system that I would never trade into for the very reason you noted.  I would have no desire to be in the gardenview units at Barony because of the distance from the beach.  If you want to be near the beach Grande Ocean and Monarch are the best Marriotts on Hilton Head to trade into.


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## gmarine (Sep 12, 2006)

When you do an exchange though II the confirmation clearly states that no particular view or unit location will be provided. As long as you received the same size unit that you were confirmed into you shouldnt be complaining.

Owners should receive preference over exchangers. This isnt limited to Marriott. Many resorts have this policy.


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## Eric (Sep 12, 2006)

I agree with you 100% . I think you should stay away from big bad Marriott who has the nerve to take care of it's owners first. With that kind of an attitude, they are lucky if they break 2 Billion dollars in sales this year. Sell your week and buy Westgate. You'll show Marriott 



			
				pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> I just returned from the Marriott Barony Beach in Hilton Head.  I was allowed to request an ocean view room but when I got there I was advised that only Barony owners get ocean view, Marriott system exchangers get the next best building, and out of system exchangers get the building furthest from the beach.  They would not tell me if any ocean view units were availalbe.  I think all Marriott listings in II should have a disclaimer stating that exchangers will be treated like third class citizens.  Frankly, I think it is a rip-off and a disgrace.  My opinion of Marriott has dropped dramatically.


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## Cathyb (Sep 12, 2006)

And where do YOU own? It appears you aren't even a TUG member (does it cost too much for you)?. I agree with previous poster.  Why shouldn't an owner get better views than an exchanger? He paid good money for that Marriott!!!
  Sometimes I just don't understand people.  May I guess you might have picked up a cheap week on Ebay at some forelorn resort and expect miracles?  Thanks for letting me blow off steam


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## tashamen (Sep 12, 2006)

Eric said:
			
		

> Sell your week and buy Westgate. You'll show Marriott



Now THAT is funny - LOL!


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 12, 2006)

tashamen said:
			
		

> Now THAT is funny - LOL!
> 
> Originally Posted by Eric
> Sell your week and buy Westgate. You'll show Marriott



Hey....I own Westgate Park City and love it...I actually like the property MUCH better than Marriott SummitWatch or Mountainside.

But, I have never stayed at any other Westgate and I understand they are NOT as nice as Park City. I am happy that Westgate Park City has 100% separate reservations dept than the rest of Westgate.


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## tashamen (Sep 12, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> Hey....I own Westgate Park City and love it...I actually like the property MUCH better than Marriott SummitWatch or Mountainside.
> 
> But, I have never stayed at any other Westgate and I understand they are NOT as nice as Park City. I am happy that Westgate Park City has 100% separate reservations dept than the rest of Westgate.



My comment wasn't meant as being against Westgate - what I meant was that its funny to think that an outfit as large as Marriott would care if any one person sold one of their ts and bought something else.  I was trying to be sarcastic - guess that didn't come through...


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## Jeni (Sep 12, 2006)

Hmmm, this does bring up a question for me...let's say you own at the Barony, but you only paid to have a gardenview unit.  If you stay at the Barony, will you be bumped up to oceanview or will you be assigned to the unit you purchased?  There is a big difference in retail purchase price between the two.

Also, let's say the owner of the oceanview unit deposits it in II and I pick it up through II...why shouldn't I have the oceanview unit?  Or if I picked up a gardenview unit that was deposited, why shouldn't I have the gardenview?  Seems that leaving it to the luck of the exchange draw would make other feel it is "fair."  How does it really work?

Jeni


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## Bill4728 (Sep 12, 2006)

I don't know about Barony, but at Marriott Maui they say 2 things.
1. Garden view owners will get garden view units. They will not be upgraded to ocean view. 
2. Exchangers (marriott owners) only get what is left after ocean view owners are assigned. 

So a Marriott owner, exchanging into Maui might get an ocean view, but an garden view Maui owner will not.

editted to add;
When you trade into Newport Coast (were there are no views on the deed).
NCV owners get the best views, renters from Marriott hotels get next, then Marriott owners exchanging in and the last units go to non-marriott exchangers.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 12, 2006)

*Marriott Arrogance*

I don't think it is appropriate to get personal on this board.  I generally find the members to be friendly and helpful.  I resent the statement that I "cannot afford membership to tug."  That was way out of line.  First, I can afford a membership to TUG and I am a member.  That is how I can post on the board.  For some reason, they always list me as a visitor after 4 years.

Second, although no exchange system that I am aware of promises you a specific unit, it should be clear that when trading into marriott, as a matter of policy, you will receive the worst unit available.

I don't care how many billions the Marriott makes.  I found their service to be less than a 10 at the Barony.  No room cleaning midweek.  Only six towels for a two bedroom.  No wait service at the pool. The tram service to the beach was inconsistent - and it is a long walk.  When I go to a resort I don't want to waste my time complaining - so I didn't.

The Mayan Palace (the newest one) in Nuevo Vallarta makes Marriott Barony Beach look very very average.


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## Jeni (Sep 12, 2006)

I agree, no need to get personal.  I did not appreciate that OLCC saves the oldest units for exchangers, but I was somehow placed in the North Village, but it was still a crappy stay.

Here are some directions for showing as a member- I had the same issue when I joined, still showing as a guest.

*Why does the bbs show me as a Guest instead of TUG Member? 
In order to be shown as a TUG Member in your posts, you must have the current TUG Member password (the password used for Members-only sections of the TUG webside, such as resort reviews and ratings) entered in your bbs profile. Be sure to visit your profile and enter the new password each time the TUG Member password is updated.*


For a more detailed explanation, see this thread on the bbs.

Jeni


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## englishowner (Sep 12, 2006)

I think it is sad that you feel personally insulted by some of the comments your post has received, everyone has the right to say what they think on this board after all that is exactly what a public forum is there for. However if we say things that can be seen as inflammatory then we can only expect to get burned. Looks to me that Marriott can't do right for doing wrong, recently there was a very long thread where an owner was so disaapointed that they were not getting their unit due to exchangers, you are complaining that owners are treated better than you, what are they supposed to do? I am a Marriott owner and when I go to my home resort I expect to be able to get the unit I want, and I do. When I exchange into another Marriott I politley make request but expect nothing in return, after all if I want a certain view in a certain resort, then I need to dig in my pocket and pay for it, if I get a good view or location, then I'm lucky. Nothing in life comes for free!


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## minoter (Sep 12, 2006)

The way pgnewarkboy was treated at Marriott was exactly the way we were treated at Villa Del Palmar in Puerto Vallarta. Dave, and other responders are correct. II does not guarantee views,management can assign exchangers to any room they deem appropriate. 

I gave up an Ocean View Marriott platinum week, and received a room 10 feet off the busiest road in Puerto Vallarta. Similar experiences with trades to St Martin. As a Marriott owner, I will only trade within the Marriott system. I only use II for upgrades in room types. 

The Marriott system is similar to every other system I have experienced in the "trade game". If I owned at Mayan Palace or any other non Marriott resort, I would be angry if an exchanger received a superior room. The written Marriott priority room assignment order works well, and as a 6 week owner who doesn't trade anymore, I am happy for that policy.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 12, 2006)

What happend if you have a crappy Marriott week (imagine the worst week at any marriott) to trade and try to get a nice Marriott during the 59 day exhange? What type of room would you get?


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> First, I can afford a membership to TUG and I am a member.  That is how I can post on the board.  For some reason, they always list me as a visitor after 4 years.


That's not accurate. All registrants for this BBS can post messages here. Registration is free to anyone who wants to register. TUG membership is separate from BBS registration.

In contrast, TUG membership costs $15. If you are a member, see this link to see how to change your posting status from "Guest" to TUG Member". If you haven't joined TUG, it's easy to do by clicking on the link in the upper right corner of this page.





> I found their service to be less than a 10 at the Barony.  No room cleaning midweek.  Only six towels for a two bedroom.  No wait service at the pool.


You'll find this to be the case for many, many timeshares - in and outside of the Marriott system. 

Your check-in materials stated that you could ask for a mid-week cleaning if you wanted it. Many of us, as owners, don't want or need or want to pay for such service. If it was automatically provided, we would pay for it through our maintenance fees. This way is much more equitable. Those who want the service, pay for it.

As for towels, all you had to do was ask, and you would get more. Again, it's a cost issue. Since most Barony units have six or fewer occupants, there is no need for more than six sets of towels. You can ask for more, wash them mid-week or get the mid-week tidy service, which is less costly than a full cleaning. Or you can exchange yuor towels, rather than washing them, for a small fee.That last option was also explained in your check-in materials.

As for wait service at the pools, yes, some timeshares have it, particularly the mega-timeshares. However, I'm betting that the majority of U.S. timeshares do not have wait service at their pools. 

An interesting fact about timeshares is that they are all different. Unlike the hotel industry, there is no "standard" for what amenities and services will be offered or for which amenties there will be a charge versus being free. I think as you stay at a wider variety of timeshares over the years, you'll come to appreciate that more than you do now.

Also, once you get access to the TUG Resort Reviews (by changing your designation to "TUG Member", you can read the resort reviews before deciding whether to accept a particular exchange. For Barony, reading in advance about some of the things you didn't like about the resort would have saved your unhappiness with the resort. Even though Barony is one of only six Southeast resorts with a TUG rating of over "9", it apparently wasn't a good resort for you.


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> What happened if you have a crappy Marriott week (imagine the worst week at any marriott) to trade and try to get a nice Marriott during the 59 day exhange? What type of room would you get?


The unit assignments do not depend in any way on what you traded, except whether it was a Marriott and whether it was a Marriott at the same resort. Otherwise, it could have been the very best oceanfront or ski week in the world, or the worst, most dingy, off-season timeshare facing a busy highway. Nor do the assignments depend on when you got your exchange - a year in advance or 30 days in advance.  

The assignments are made at the resort, with exchangers at the bottom of the order. I believe the Barony priority is as follows:
1. Multiple-week Barony owners
2. Single-week Barony owners
3. Barony owners returning on an exchange
4. Other Marriott multiple-week owners on an exchange
5. Other Marriott single-week owners on an exchange
6. Rental and preview guests
7. Non-Marriott owners on an exchange.
(Barony owners almost always get the view that they own when staying at Barony - no upgrade.)


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## MikeM132 (Sep 12, 2006)

Barony is maybe my favorite resort (so far). I think you have to be careful comparing the worst villa at Barony to other resorts. Is it really bad, or just not as nice as the best villas there? I was (still am) interested in buying there, and walked/timed myself from gardenview to the beach twice--7 minutes. It took about 2 minutes from oceanside (where I traded into, by the way-this was October and the resort was not full). I don't want to beat a dead horse, but in my experience the "worst" room at Marriott is still pretty high up the food chain as far as timeshares go.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 12, 2006)

It boils down to this one simple point.  Upon check in, if there are owner units available for the time period in question they should be made available to exchangers.  Nobody is getting hurt.

BTW, I am sure that the managers of this board would not agree with you that you can say anything you want to say on this board.


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> Upon check in, if there are owner units available for the time period in question they should be made available to exchangers.


I agree. And despite what you were told at check-in, that sometimes happens. As is the case with most companies, not every Marriott employee knows everything about policy. 

It happens that your week - Labor Day week - is one of the two most popular weeks in the Gold season at Barony. All weeks are floating weeks. Thus, owners scramble as soon as reservations open to try to reserve either Memorial Day week or Labor Day week, depending on when they call. The resort is always full those weeks. Thus, there were no unassigned units, let alone oceanfront units for the week you were there.


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

Incidentally, I note that you are still not yet listed as a "TUG Member". If you make the change I suggested, your posts will all reflect your membership immediately.


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## floyddl (Sep 12, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> It boils down to this one simple point.  Upon check in, if there are owner units available for the time period in question they should be made available to exchangers.  Nobody is getting hurt.



While I agree with you, I don't think that you should feel that you are entitled to get one.  That is why I would not trade into Barony.  Chalk it up to experience and trade into Grande Ocean or Monarch the next time you want to go to Hilton Head.


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## 3gymrats (Sep 12, 2006)

Ok, I don't have a TS (yet) and I've only been looking at this site for 5 days so maybe I shouldn't be saying anything.......But wouldn't it make sense to let a Marriott exchanger get an Ocean view room if it is not going to be occupied?  The original poster said they refused to tell him if any were available.  Presumably there is a reservation list so Marriott knows if someone is going to occupy such a room.  Wouldn't this make for a happier Marriott family?


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## wsrobinson (Sep 12, 2006)

*Not to beat a dead horse but...*

If you check in at 2pm on a Saturday and they have oceanfront or oceanside available and they decide to assign it to you (an exchanger) and an owner comes along at 3 pm on Saturday (he owns Barony of but is exchanging for a different season) and all they have in inventory is gv, how is this owner not affected by what you propose.  It's not a perfect system but it works for the majority.


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## Dave M (Sep 12, 2006)

That won't happen. The resort knows the owner is coming and has already allocated a specific unit for the owner. 

If an owner shows up _without_ a reservation, too bad for the owner. Thus, the exchanger should do well in that situation.


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## toni3063 (Sep 12, 2006)

Dave M said:
			
		

> The assignments are made at the resort, with exchangers at the bottom of the order. I believe the Barony priority is as follows:
> 1. Multiple-week Barony owners
> 2. Single-week Barony owners
> 3. Barony owners returning on an exchange
> ...



You are correct, Dave.  This is the order at Barony. 

 As a multiple week owner at Barony... I have always recieved the view that I own in, even when exchanging through II.  Having said that... I would have no problem with taking a garden unit if exchanging in.  I consider myself lucky to get the exchange and don't worry about the view (this is true no matter where I exchange to).  IMO, the owners of that season should have first choice of view (that includes giving a garden owner of that season priority over me exchanging into a different season).  IMO, the distance to the beach from the garden units are greatly exaggerated by some.


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## jme (Sep 12, 2006)

*another scenario*

Another scenario would have a would-be RENTER calling for a few days stay, and if that unit is available (it may even be an owner calling) , they would then get it. It happens all the time---last-minute renters, even owners....or owners who wish to stay longer at the last minute. Anyway, the units are given priority, and Marriott sticks to it in general. So do other companies!!!! That is the way it should be. "No one gets hurt" is not a very good business policy. Try calling The Plaza Hotel in the theatre district of Manhattan and say "Well now, I'm sure you have some rooms or suites available...maybe even the Presidential Suite, so, rather than leave them open and unoccupied, i'd be willing to stay there for free, just to keep the dust away..." and see what they say.  Generally speaking, everybody gets what they pay for, and policies must be adhered to in order to make the system work. I HAVE heard of traders getting oceanview units at Grande Ocean, Barony, etc., in a "luck-of-the-draw" situation (actually even a better unit than we as owners got assigned), so it does happen occasionally...not at the whim of the front desk, but due to some other circumstance. BUT......always, always.... the units for any given week are designated in certain categories, i.e., either under the category of "owner week for trade", "owner week for rent", owner week blah, blah...or whatever.......depending on whether Marriott has it or II owns it at that particular time...... so say, if II happens to own the week due to someone depositing it for trade, Marriott cannot touch it, and vice versa. Owner weeks deposited for trade, owner weeks for occupancy, owner weeks for rent, etc., are totally different, and cannot be interchanged and exchanged by those entities, despite requests.....I think most folks are simply unaware of these categories, and the fact that the weeks are owned by Marriott for rent, II due to trade, or owners for occupancy.......jme


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## wuv pooh (Sep 12, 2006)

jme said:
			
		

> I HAVE heard of traders getting oceanview units at Grande Ocean, Barony, etc., in a "luck-of-the-draw" situation (actually even a better unit than we as owners got assigned), so it does happen occasionally



Just happened to us at Grande Ocean.  We were there for the last Platinum week in August.  As multiple Marriott week owners we received the Sea Horse building which is renovated ocean front.  It was wonderful and a great trade for us from our Horizons week.  Course we always meet the GM, send thank yous to the CMs managers, have required maintenance performed, etc., etc. so I believe what goes around comes around.


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## PerryM (Sep 12, 2006)

*Let's hear it for discrimination!*

When you exchange one reservation for another, thru an exchange company, you do NOT pass on the full rights and privileges as the owner – I wish it were the case.

Most HOAs and developers have decided that discrimination is perfectly ok against the person exchanging in.  The resort is privately owned and they are allowed a certain amount of discrimination before it becomes illegal.  Since this seems to be an accepted practice, it goes on without lawsuits.

Dumpster views are mandated by Marriott at some resorts.  I know that MountainSide and Maui have a special place all set aside for me every time I exchange in – I get a great view of the activities around the Dumpster - especially as the sun rises.

Parking fees are a big form of discrimination that some Marriotts love to stick to the exchanger.  I should imagine that other resorts will join in on fees, like beach towels, or renting basketballs, etc – anything to raise a few bucks for the HOA.

As someone who delights in exchanging “up” I don’t get worked up with this discrimination.  However if I exchanged “down” I’d probably delight in bending the ear of the resort manager for 15 minutes and see if I couldn’t get something out of it for my trouble.

Some Marriott’s like Summit Watch allow the exchanger privileges that owners get – you can ask for a view of the lift and actually get it.

So call in 2 weeks ahead of time and ask for a view, you might be told that you are not worthy of that view and just let it go.

However, this is all a form of treating one person differently than another – that’s discrimination no matter how you want to spin it.


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## wsrobinson (Sep 12, 2006)

Dave M said:
			
		

> That won't happen. The resort knows the owner is coming and has already allocated a specific unit for the owner.
> 
> If an owner shows up _without_ a reservation, too bad for the owner. Thus, the exchanger should do well in that situation.




Dave,

What I meant and poorly explained is a situation where an exchanger asks (and I have done this for an upgraded view) and the Front Desk person gives the exchanger another person's unit thus short changing someone else.  Hoping that the next person just accepts their room assignment.  I have exchanged into Barony (with Grande Ocean OF unit) and been assigned a GV unit.  At this point I ask (very politely) if, because I own a different view if I can be upgraded.  They comply usually without a fuss.  The unit assignments are made in advance but with the right amount of coaxing/complaining you can change floors/buildings/views etc.  If these changes are made at check-in how can you be sure someone ends up with something less or more desireable than they deserve.

Scott


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## MikeM132 (Sep 12, 2006)

Hey Perry...I'll let you know next time we go to Maui. I BOUGHT the dumpster view, and you'd better not bump me!


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## mj2vacation (Sep 12, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> However, this is all a form of treating one person differently than another – that’s discrimination no matter how you want to spin it.



if you are not a marriott owner (or any other particular developer), it is not discrimination, it is just smart business.  You may not like it, but that is what it is....

Now if you checked in and they did not like the color of your hair, you could play the discrimination card.


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## Dean (Sep 12, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> I just returned from the Marriott Barony Beach in Hilton Head.  I was allowed to request an ocean view room but when I got there I was advised that only Barony owners get ocean view, Marriott system exchangers get the next best building, and out of system exchangers get the building furthest from the beach.  They would not tell me if any ocean view units were availalbe.  I think all Marriott listings in II should have a disclaimer stating that exchangers will be treated like third class citizens.  Frankly, I think it is a rip-off and a disgrace.  My opinion of Marriott has dropped dramatically.


The posted order of preference is pretty standard at all Marriott's.  I suspect Marriott corporate has sent out directions on this issue as GO and SW have the exact same listing of preference and they were published about the same time.  II doesn't keep track, or even care, what you give up in terms of view, etc.  Once you get to a resort, you are an exchanger.  You deserve a certain minimum qualify of room and measure of respect.  You should fall below members, Marriott exchangers (if you did not trade in with Marriott) and even cash renters who usually reserved a specific view type for a set price.  There are many resorts where this is a much larger problem than you experienced.  Certainly if there are units that will go empty, it's not unreasonable for the resort to upgrade you but to expect it is unreasonable.  And they should likely upgrade those ahead of you as well, just bumping you up the ladder one notch, not 3.  They should give you the unit size and resort in question, for some MX resorts even this seems to be asking too much.  Some resorts play the game where you can have an upgrade for a fee, I disapprove of that tactic but it's their court.



			
				Steamboat Bill said:
			
		

> What happend if you have a crappy Marriott week (imagine the worst week at any marriott) to trade and try to get a nice Marriott during the 59 day exhange? What type of room would you get?


Unless they use the date of exchange or request as a tie breaker, I'm not sure if they do, likely the same unit you would get if you'd made the same exchange 1 year out.


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## bobcat (Sep 12, 2006)

3gymrats said:
			
		

> Ok, I don't have a TS (yet) and I've only been looking at this site for 5 days so maybe I shouldn't be saying anything.......But wouldn't it make sense to let a Marriott exchanger get an Ocean view room if it is not going to be occupied?  The original poster said they refused to tell him if any were available.  Presumably there is a reservation list so Marriott knows if someone is going to occupy such a room.  Wouldn't this make for a happier Marriott family?


I am a Tug member and I still show as a guest. This is an open board. Let us be NICE. I was at the  Barony last week. I am not a Marriott owner. But, my units still can pull Marriott weeks. They also put us in a garden unit. It was redone  one and a half years ago. This unit was run down. 
the place was not cleaned good, and needed work. I had the manager up to our room to see how it looked. They sent people over to take care of some of the items. We also had a fire alarm go off in our building at 7. 20 A.M. This was a very bad thing. Marriott was lucky it was only a false alarm. I will not go into what happened. The Barony knows the outcome of this. I hope this post is O. K. Bobcat


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## KenK (Sep 12, 2006)

Rat:
   When a  Marriott owner (a member of the MVCI) checks in, the screen comes up and tells the check in person a lot of info, including that of being a member (owner) of some Marriott VC. 

    In most cases I am aware of, owners checking into the resort they own at get first requested rooms when available.   What if an owner paid extra for an oceanfront room in their week (or Float?)....and no rooms are left ??? I don't know, ask Dave.

    But last October, we were at the Barony, and were given an ocean side view.  There are very few units there with a direct ocean view..   

    When asked about the rooms, this clerk said he gives what was explained above.....owners here get first preferance as to what they wish.  

    Then MVCI Members. (No mention of Marriott Hotel rentals.) But if there is a request from anyone after room assignments are set, they would give a room request to even an exchanger if available.

    People fight the exchange companies like crazy to get ANY ROOM in ANY resort on HHI in the summer.  They are super happy to get an exchange in a unit that might be 10 blocks from the ocean....just to get something.

    I don't agree with the idea in Hawaii.....that everyone takes above desired rooms even over an owner of a garden or mountain view of the same resort.  If I were a room giver there, I'd get fired....as IMO my allegiance is to the owners first....  Yes, all ocean view owners get first, but an exchanger would not be above an owner in any other location.  Gee, my Lehigh Acres $1.00 purchase price week $300.00 maint fee week gets Hawaii oceanfront over the resort gardenview owners. Crappy (or worse) policy. 

   And I hope most tuggers have read enough about USA resorts to know that they are super cheap on hotel services.....all of them are (except maybe the Four Seasons-$1300 maint a week??).  We get no service like the units in Mexico.  

     I remember once that a tugger complained they didn't get fresh towels (I think at Shawnee) and the front desk offered the detergent for the in room washers & dryers. 

   (BTW....nearly all the views of the ocean are blocked by tall veg. growth at the Monarch. Just a warning if ocean views are a super need)


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## calgal (Sep 12, 2006)

When I called room control at Newport Coast Villas in June, the young man indicated that when the exchange had come through (a full year before checkin) was a factor in allocating rooms. Might be a minor factor, I don't know. While I am a Marriott owner elsewhere, I did not get my request for an ocean view fulfilled, except for a sliver of blue. However, I was glad to be there and did not feel wronged in the slightest.
When I checked in at Hyatt Lake Tahoe this summer, I found out that every single party that week were Hyatt owners like myself. Obviously we couldn't all get the best locations in the resort. My family ended up in the building furthest from the lake, but it was still all good.
On the other hand, if I was assigned a unit somewhere that was dirty, infested, or gross, I would be a very unhappy exchanger. Someone posted recently about the public bathrooms at Marriott Grande Vista being disgusting and poorly maintained, and that, in my opinion, is more significant a problem for most vacationers, whether owners or exchangers.


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## JimG (Sep 13, 2006)

Slightly OT; but we recently exchanged our MEM week for a week at MSE, plus we rented an extra night due to flight timings, now;

1. Checkin had no knowledge that we were Marriott owners.
2. The two booking references had not been collated and at first they wanted us to vacate our MSE unit at the end of the week and move into MMC for one night as "they don't rent MSE". Luckily they were persuaded otherwise. 
3. The morning after checkin we were asked for our owners discount card at the marketplace and we realised that we hadn't been given the card for owners privilages (i.e. golf) and we had to ask for it.

So, whose mess up is this II or Marriott? and do they normally get told by II that you are a Marriott owner?

Jim G


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## Big Matt (Sep 13, 2006)

I'm willing to bet that it was the folks at Manor Club.  I'm guessing that somehow the rental information superceded the exchange information and overwrote it.

You don't get any special privaledges as a renter (no golf).

I always ask for the owners discount card even when I'm renting or exchaning in from another week and they always give it to me (won't give me the golf though).



			
				JimG said:
			
		

> So, whose mess up is this II or Marriott? and do they normally get told by II that you are a Marriott owner?


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## cwtkm3 (Sep 13, 2006)

Jim G,

We previewed OceanWatch Villas in Myrtle Beach this Aug. The sales guy knew we were owners at SurfWatch (HHI) but didn't know about Marbella Beach Resort or Playa Andaluza. Same goes for the tour guy at SW.

I like to play dumb at these tours. The sales pitch is always how owning more weeks works to your advantage etc etc. My husband is usually wanting to get out ASAP and hates me telling them more about us. Of course as soon as you say you own in Spain and have 3 weeks in total the penny drops. You can see the sales guy suddenly realises you are most likely to be a savvy owner. The guy in SW couldn't wait to say goodbye. The guy in MB was great fun and really lovely. Infact I'm tempted to buy another week in MB but the points aren't worth it vs cost. We love the points as know how to use them ie travel/package, cat 6/7 hotels etc.

I exchanged into Barony. Called 2 weeks in advance and explained we were owners and where. All I asked for was a room overlooking a pool and high floor. I also asked for a refurbished unit. Well we got oceanside (no sea view cos of trees) and un-refurbished unit. But it was still great, even if a little worn. We decided to stay put and thoroughly enjoyed our week. I saw an OF re-furbished unit, absolutely lovely. In the past I've seen the GV units. They're also nice.

What surprised me most that week (Aug 19-26) was that nearly everyone I met had exchanged in. (All Marriott Owners).

II should pass on the fact that you're a Marriott Owner to the resort you're exchanging into. Otherwise be sure to call and make them aware before you go.

Carole


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## Kilby5924 (Sep 13, 2006)

*Elite Status*

I have had both experiences, couple of times at Fairway villas the front desk had no ideas that I was a Marriott owner, same thing at Grande Vista. However at Canyon Villas not only did they know I was Marriott owner the II reservation showed up on the Marriott website as reservation? I could my hotel reservation at Desert Ridge and my Canyon Villas reservation and I was trading in non-Marriott TS. While not stated I think Marriott is also taking elite status into account in assignment of rooms not to the same extent that do on the hotel side. If what happen to the OP is true that might also explain why they would not give him a better view. Ex. and exchanger checks in who identify himself as elite plat and owners request are fulfilled then Marriott would be more incline to give that view to the plat.
Sheldon


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## sandytoes (Sep 13, 2006)

JimG and Big Matt . . .Owner's discount card? I thought I was pretty good and figured out the gist of all this, but what is the owner's discount card . .. what does it do and how do you get one? Is it for any Marriott timeshare or just the ones you own? Thanks Karen


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## englishowner (Sep 13, 2006)

Jim

I don't think European Owners show up in the US system, I've exchanged into 3 different Marriotts and noone knew I was an owner until I told them. This is why I've always been slightly confused by all talk on here of priority for Marriott owners. At Grande Vista, Ocean Pointe and Desert Springs I was only an II exchanger. Was still treated very well, certainly not like any lower caste and actually quite enjoyed it that Sales were not aware of my prior Marriott knowledge.

Lynne


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## jlr10 (Sep 13, 2006)

We own at two resorts, one Marriott and one nonMarriott.  Both give preference to owners.  After owners are assigned, owners coming in get preference, and then I don't know and really am not concerned.

At Hanalei Bay they have now begun assigning weeks at reservation, so I know exactly where I am going to be staying.  If I don't like the unit, or would prefer an different one, I can call two week in advance and check for units that have been deposited with II by other owners.  It is a benefit of my paying those Hawaii maintenance fees, which IMHO, is how it should be. 

As an owner I would be really ticked if I the home resort where I purchased gave the preferred unit for someone who owned a timeshare unit which they bought for $500 on ebay and were using just to trade into the resort, because my maintenance fees are higher than that.  (Don't jump on me I am not against anyone getting a good deal for a timeshare-that is a different discusssion.)  

As owners at Marriott we pay maintenance fees that aren't cheap.  Why? Because we want to go there.  We are paying the fees so we should be entitled to enjoy what we purchased, and should not be penalized because someone else got to the checkin before us.

There have been times when I have made a hotel reservation and show up only to find the hotel is overbooked and they gave my room to someone who showed up sooner.  In every case, because I 'owned' that room for the night, based on my preregistration,  and I have been upgraded to a better class of room.  I have never checked in and had them say "So sorry we gave your ocean view room to another party, would you be willing to sleep on a cot overlooking the street?"  Why not? Because I paid for the view/services and am entitled to a minimum of what I paid for, if I get more good for me.  If I paid for the cot with a street view  and that is what I get then that is what I deserve.  

The same holds true for exchanging in II.  Disgregarding all other factors, such as owners exchanging back in, you are guaranteed a room in a resort. That is it.  Anything else is just a bonus.

As exchangers we get what is left over, after those who own there and pay nice maintenance fees to do so, get what they paid for.  It is not discrimination, but good business sense.  I people don't like it, don't go there.  In most cases there are others, who don't own there, who would be happy to find an exchange freed up.

I think the problem is as Marriott owners we are spoiled and expect special treatment.  But we only are guaranteed to get what we purchase.    

Sometimes I get the garbage view.  Sometimes I get the oceanview. Sometimes life is just that way. As for me, I am happy just to have a view of any place.  Any view on this side of the grass is all gravy.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 13, 2006)

There is absolutely no comparison between exchanging and wanting a hotel room for free.  Exchanging is not free.


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## Big Matt (Sep 13, 2006)

Karen, Karen, Karen,
there is so much to learn 

The discount card gets you 10% off everything in the Marketplace and in the Spa.  They used to give you a card that was good for both the golf and the discounts, but I'm not sure if it is the same now.  It also may be good for some other things at the resort, but I've never paid much attention.  



			
				sandytoes said:
			
		

> JimG and Big Matt . . .Owner's discount card? I thought I was pretty good and figured out the gist of all this, but what is the owner's discount card . .. what does it do and how do you get one? Is it for any Marriott timeshare or just the ones you own? Thanks Karen


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## Steve A (Sep 13, 2006)

On the other hand I'm a multipule week ocean view owner at the Barony (bronze and silver). I traded into the Barony with the bronze for the week before Labor Day. I was placed in a a top floor, ocean front. I was told it was because I owned the two weeks. 

I have absolutely no complaints on how assignments are made.


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## irish (Sep 13, 2006)

i have to weigh in here. as the owner of 3 marriotts for which i paid $$$$ and still pay $$$ maintenance fees, i fully expect to be given the absolute best unit and view available to me. when i exchange my marriotts for other t/s,
i don't expect to be given the best views as those units  should also be reserved for the owners of that particular resort. they pay the m/f's and should always be given priority over an exchanger. i think the system is as it should be.JMO


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 13, 2006)

A friend of mine owns marriott and I know for a fact that  reservations are made months in advance.  If an owner unit is available upon check in, exchangers should have a chance to use it.  The exchange agreements cut two ways.  They can't guarantee what room you will get.  That also means that it is possible to get a better unit.

Marriott has created a caste system.  In my view, it detracts from Marriott.  Fair warning should be posted on II that marriott uses a caste system.  People may choose another exchange instead of exchanging into Marriott.  Finding out about this system when you arrive is too late.  

Certain members love the system.  It is irrelevant to my argument.  Love it, or hate it, exchangers outside their system should be given fair warning.


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## Dave M (Sep 13, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> ...exchangers outside their [Marriott] system should be given fair warning.


They are. II has such a warning & disclosure both in its Membership Terms & Conditions and in its confirmations of exchanges. The reason it doesn't make sense for II to single out Marriott is that, as discussed earlier in this thread, many - perhaps the majority of - resorts have such "discriminatory" policies. 

Also, resort policies change from time to time. II doesn't keep track of such policies, as it's not a factor for II in making exchanges. Thus, it's likely that your only practical choices for avoiding such "discrimination" before accepting an exchange are to carefully read the TUG resort reviews for the resort and to call the resort and ask how they assign units.

Although you don't like such policies, it's not going away. Having such a policy is probably an essential sales tool for many resorts. Not many of us would knowingly buy at a resort, given comparable choices, if told that as an owner, we aren't given preference in unit assignments over non-owners.


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## Eric (Sep 13, 2006)

[_Edited to delete personal attack._ Dave M, BBS Administrator]


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## grupp (Sep 13, 2006)

*How would you assign rooms.*

For those who don't like the fact that Marriott, as well as many other resorts, give preferential room assignments to owners, what would be your idea for handling room assignments? Somebody has to stay in the room farthest for the beach or with the worst view. 

Personally, I think that owners should be given preferential treatment by the resorts. Also, the worst room at the Marriott may be better than the best room at some other resort.

Gary


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## PerryM (Sep 13, 2006)

*I say Poo-poo to discrimination*

We exchanged into the Maui Ocean Club and I asked for a “fantastic view, preferably ocean front”.  I could almost see the room assigner rolling on the floor trying to catch his breath.

I got our normal dumpster view and also a view of the new tower being built and the constant beeping of heavy equipment that seemingly spend the entire day going in reverse.

However at 5 PM all was quite and we sat on the Lanai watching the ocean.  For what we used for exchanging we had huge smiles the entire week.  Monday night was “Poo-poo” night where we drank ourselves silly and ate Poos-poos until dark (all free of course).  We had name tags on and 95% of the folks were “Maui Ocean Club” owners we were the only “Summit Watch” folks there.

So I can take a little discrimination once in a while.


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## toni3063 (Sep 13, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> The Mayan Palace (the newest one) in Nuevo Vallarta makes Marriott Barony Beach look very very average.



The Mayan Palace doesn't give owners priority over exchangers?  There must be some very unhappy owners there.


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## Dean (Sep 13, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> A friend of mine owns marriott and I know for a fact that  reservations are made months in advance.  If an owner unit is available upon check in, exchangers should have a chance to use it.  The exchange agreements cut two ways.  They can't guarantee what room you will get.  That also means that it is possible to get a better unit.
> 
> Marriott has created a caste system.  In my view, it detracts from Marriott.  Fair warning should be posted on II that marriott uses a caste system.  People may choose another exchange instead of exchanging into Marriott.  Finding out about this system when you arrive is too late.
> 
> Certain members love the system.  It is irrelevant to my argument.  Love it, or hate it, exchangers outside their system should be given fair warning.


IMO, the warning is and should be universal.  It's right there on the confirmation and in the II agreement.  The resort has the right to give you any unit they want.  Few resorts do better than Marriott in this regard and many are FAR worse.  Even the Royals have moved more from a you get the unit deposited to giving exchangers lessor units.  II can't keep up with every resort and variation in assignments or the variables from one unit to another.  To say II should inform you ahead of time you will likely get a gardenview unit and it is far inferior to the other unit types is unrealistic and unreasonable, IMO.  Investigate any resort prior to accepting an exchange and go in with REASONABLE expectations or even low expectations and it's hard to be disappointed.  I'm reminded of a story about Deb Wills Site (allearsnet.com) where they listed an aggregate of the antics that have happened at Disney's Whispering Canyon Restaurant where they tend to cut up quite a bit with the guests.  Someone read the listing and then went to the restaurant and actually expected everything on the lists to happen to them and were upset when it didn't.


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## calgal (Sep 13, 2006)

The Grand Mayan in Nuevo Vallarta absolutely assigns ocean view to its owners and garage view to exchangers. This was explicitly explained to me when I checked in in December. Seemed reasonable to me, I did not complain.


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## seatrout (Sep 13, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> A friend of mine owns marriott and I know for a fact that  reservations are made months in advance.  If an owner unit is available upon check in, exchangers should have a chance to use it.  The exchange agreements cut two ways.  They can't guarantee what room you will get.  That also means that it is possible to get a better unit.
> 
> Marriott has created a caste system.  In my view, it detracts from Marriott.  Fair warning should be posted on II that marriott uses a caste system.  People may choose another exchange instead of exchanging into Marriott.  Finding out about this system when you arrive is too late.
> 
> Certain members love the system.  It is irrelevant to my argument.  Love it, or hate it, exchangers outside their system should be given fair warning.



I think that it may be better if you avoid exchanging into Marriott in the future.  That would just leave an extra unit for those who would appreciate to go to that location and be happy with whatever view they get.


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## Darlene (Sep 13, 2006)

My question to "pgnewarkboy" is how long have you been t/s?  I think the reality is that exchanging is a sort of "roll of the dice."  I am a Marriott Monarch owner, and I have never stayed there.  I have exchanged my MM week.  We requested oceanfront at Kauai once (Christmas week) and got it.  The next time we got a garden view.  We requested Marriott Maui oceanfront, and got a great ocean/pool view, we got the dumpster view the first time.  Who cares, we were in Maui.  I felt lucky to even get my request.  Do you know what those owners pay in M/f?  They deserve oceanfront.  
We also own a Kona Coast II week 52 week overlooking the ocean.  We exchanged into Club International Cancun, and had the room by the bus stop.  The bus started at 5:00 am.  We traded in the Royal Sands, and although we were confirmed in a garden view, we got oceanfront - didn't even ask.   When we go to our home (KCR II), we can request up to three different rooms (first, second, third choice) up to 2 years ahead.  The last time we were there (April) we got the room we requested, but it still had not been refurbished.  "Exchangers" were telling us how beautiful their new unit was.  Just our luck!
I try my best to read the TUG reviews and ask questions to make sure it's a place I want to stay.  It sounds like Barony was just not a good match for what you wanted.  For example, we went to Myrtle Beach a few years ago.  We could choose between a 5* not on the beach, or a barely 2 * on the beach.  We chose the t/s on the beach.  The units were horrible!  But the location was great!  The staff was very friendly, and helpful.  We enjoyed the week.
The bottom line is that you can not control what other people say or do, what you can control is how you react.  If you expect to get oceanfront, and you don't - of course you will be dissappointed, but then no one ever promised you oceanfront.   Owners who have purchased oceanfront, deserve oceanfront.  The Marriott system (and others t/s) are predisposed to taking care of their owners, that's why we buy Marriott.  We pay more to buy, and have higher m/f and assessments.  We are lucky that our MM is a fixed week, and do not have to go through the unbelievable work most owners do to even get a reservation.  Why shouldn't Marriott owners get priority?   
BTW, what did you use to trade into Barony?  Do you get priority at your home resort?  Do you have reasonable m/f?  I think Barony's are $726.  My MM m/f's are over $625, but we had a $600+ assessment on top of that.  And thats not the first time, it's the price we pay to be Marriott owners.
Darlene


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## jme (Sep 14, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> Dumpster views are mandated by Marriott at some resorts.  I know that MountainSide and Maui have a special place all set aside for me every time I exchange in – I get a great view of the activities around the Dumpster - especially as the sun rises.
> 
> 
> .



Perry, you need to definitely ASK for that "dumpster view", and i'll bet you'll find that they WON'T give it to you...ever. That makes perfectly good "Marriott" sense, doesn't it? jme


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## PerryM (Sep 14, 2006)

jme said:
			
		

> Perry, you need to definitely ASK for that "dumpster view", and i'll bet you'll find that they WON'T give it to you...ever. That makes perfectly good "Marriott" sense, doesn't it? jme



Ohhhh, very clever - I never thought of that.  Demand the Dumpster view and they will probably think there is something wrong with me and put me in a prime location so they can keep an eye on us.

I'll try it next time - if anything it might break the ice and who knows maybe my raw charm will get us in a prime spot.  (Oh, I can just hear the moaning)

I've attached a picture of the prime Dumpster view we had this year at the Maui Ocean Club.
I have more, if there is on overwhelming demand for Dumpster shots.


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## Darlene (Sep 14, 2006)

I don't think you'll be able to get the "dumpster view" at Summit Watch, it's against Park City's permit code.  At Mountainside in the summer, we did have the "dirt hill" view.


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## Big Matt (Sep 14, 2006)

Are you kidding me...that's a satelite view.  There is one in the dumpster.

You should be able to see everything from a satelite.



			
				PerryM said:
			
		

> Ohhhh, very clever - I never thought of that.  Demand the Dumpster view and they will probably think there is something wrong with me and put me in a prime location so they can keep an eye on us.
> 
> I'll try it next time - if anything it might break the ice and who knows maybe my raw charm will get us in a prime spot.  (Oh, I can just hear the moaning)
> 
> ...


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## grgs (Sep 14, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> I've attached a picture of the prime Dumpster view we had this year at the Maui Ocean Club.
> I have more, if there is on overwhelming demand for Dumpster shots.



Ah, come on!  It could have been worse--at least you weren't on the first floor with the dumpster view!


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## LAX Mom (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm happy with Marriott's policy regarding room placements. 
When I exhange I don't expect to get a prime ocean view room. If I do, then I'm thrilled, but not disappointed if I receive something else.

I have usually exchanged in using a 1 bedroom or lock-off low season week, so my costs are usually less that the Marriott owners at that resort.

It's nice to have a great view, but there are many other positives about the Marriott resorts where I've vacationed. I'm not going to let a bad view ruin my vacation. If that was the case, I'd buy an ocean view unit and use it myself.

My experience with Marriott is that I receive what ever unit the owner had. I've had oceanview at Ko'Olina and other times received islandview, if that was what the owner gave to II.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 14, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> I've attached a picture of the prime Dumpster view we had this year at the Maui Ocean Club. I have more, if there is on overwhelming demand for Dumpster shots.



I think you NEED to start a new thread with this topic and post a sample of yoru photos. Then have a contest for the WORST dumpster view.


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## pgnewarkboy (Sep 15, 2006)

I have been timesharing for close to 10 years.  I am well aware that owners are given preference at their own resort.  That is not my point.  I think that this topic is like waving a red flag at a bull.  Lets charge ahead before we digest the post.  Shoot first and ask questions later.

At every other resort I have been to, besides marriott, I could get a better view, IF IT IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN.  Mariott policy is that they don't care what is available.  You still get the worst available unit dependent on your place in the caste system.  Maybe the point of some of the posts is "I paid much money for my view and I don't think that someone who might not have paid as much should have that view even if it is available AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN.  Apparently, that is Marriotts view and policy.  My view is that all exchangers should be treated as honored guests of the resort and that THE WORLD WILL NOT COLLAPSE IF AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN A BETTER VIEW IS AVAILABLE.  It happens that I own a unit at the Sunterra (formerly EVR) at Maui.  I have a deluxe ocean view facing the beach for which I paid extra.  My world will continue to go onif a non-owner is upgraded to that space AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN BECAUSE IT IS AVAILABLE.  In my view, I will not have been cheated because I am not there using my view.  I EXPECT AND WILL GET THE VIEW I PAID FOR EVERY TIME I MAKE A RESERVATION AT MY HOME RESORT.


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## floyddl (Sep 15, 2006)

I think we can all agree that Marriott has a caste system and now you have first hand knowledge of it.  Now, knowing that and knowing that it will not change you can either learn to work the system that is in place or choose to not exchange into Marriotts again.  I think if being in a Gardenview room is unacceptable for you then you should do your research and seek exchanges to resorts that don't offer Gardenview (like Grande Ocean) and avoid being disappointed.  If you are prepared to take whatever you get then you really can't be disappointed.  If not then be very selective in the resorts you add to your searches.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 15, 2006)

From a system point of view, I think that Marriott did the right thing with it's owner preference levels.  This actually creates a stronger resale market because it gives people a reason to buy at a specific resort.

It will get even better when Marriott implements its point system.  That assumes they do it correctly which I have no doubts they will.  In a well developed point system, they will create differential levels of points for various unit locations and types.  In this way, if you want an oceanview or oceanfront unit, you can get it simply by paying a bit more.  If you are okay with the dumpster view, then you get it at a discounted rate.

It helps that Marriott has an active rental business.  They can use that data to set the point values for the various resorts and units.  The key is to optimally map supply and demand.  The right point values that can change over time will result in the greatest number of satisfied owners and exchangers.


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## PerryM (Sep 15, 2006)

*Explain this...*

If I lock in a juicy week at my Marriott and then rent it out privately, the renter becomes a proxy for me – I expect him to get all the rights and privileges as I, the owner, do.   He can call in 14 days ahead of time and talk to the Room Assigner and, just like me, ask for preferential treatment.  Now as the owner, I might get it or I might not – same with my proxy.

The name on the reservation could be my brother's or a stranger's it doesn't matter.  If there are parking fees that outsiders pay, my renter doesn’t pay.  He has all the rights and privileges at my Marriott that I, the owner, do.


However, by simply exchanging one Marriott for another Marriott I suddenly become less than an owner – I am a fellow Marriott owner and discriminated against.

I think Marriott should stop discriminating on Marriott to Marriott exchanges.  Outside exchangers can be viewed as subhuman if that’s what the HOA wants.


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## Dave M (Sep 15, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> However, by simply exchanging one Marriott for another Marriott I suddenly become less than an owner – I am a fellow Marriott owner and discriminated against.


At least at the resort that generated this discussion, you would be second in priority only to owners at the resort and ahead of all other exchangers, as detailed in two earlier posts in this thread.

Would you propose that you have the same priority as owners at the resort? If so, who loses out if, for example, there are 50 Oceanfront units and, for the week, 40 Oceanfront owners at the resort have reservations and 30 owners at other Marriott resorts have reservations? 

It sounds as though you propose that some of the Oceanfront owners at the resort would lose their rights to occupy the Oceanfront unit they own. If, not, see my first paragraph.


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## PerryM (Sep 15, 2006)

*The least objectionable solution?*

Dave,

One of the unintended consequences of Marriott not providing an internal exchange program and to foist ALL Marriott owners into a third party exchange company which cares nothing about views.  Marriott decided that this was perfectly acceptable or they could have asked for special considerations for views and fellow Marriott resorts.

If Marriott introduces an internal exchange system (Points oriented) I’m assuming that they will allow views to determine who gets the Ocean Front views and who gets the Dumpster views.  (More points awarded to Ocean Front, but Dumpster folks can borrow ahead to get Ocean Front)

II has no apparatus to deal with this in the current week system and thus the only thing the HOAs compensate for this glaring omission is by punishing  ALL Marriott owners.

This seems to be a harsh punishment for Marriott’s neglect to demand II account for views.  I understand it, and it may be the only way one HOA can handle other Marriotts that they feel are inferior to their units.  It’s still an unpleasant relationship of Marriott to Marriott resort - especially the parking fees.


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## camachinist (Sep 15, 2006)

Using the above example, if there are 50 OV units and 40 owners at that resort have reservations <ostensibly to occupy>, then that leaves 10 units which were deposited (I assume for this example). The fair thing to do is to assign appropriate deposit/trade power to those reservations and whoever can pull them in the exchange system should get them, whether they own with Marriott or not <and receive the depositor's ownership privilege/view>. If they had rent-swapped or direct-exchanged with the OV owner, they would get those priviledges, as has been our experience. Further, IIUC, if another OV owner at that resort wishes an intra-resort exchange (into a different week in their season, if such reservation is not available directly), they currently get preference back into the resort and their view/location over all other exchangers. If the view/location is available, they get it.

I'm with Perry (or perhaps in that philosophical camp, more generally) on this issue. 

Currently, since II has the Marriott preference period, if any OV/OF/premium view/location survives the Marriott window, and a non-Marriott interval gets it, they should <but apparently don't> get the same rights as the depositor does as far as view/location. All of our II exchange documents have had the owner's (depositor) name on them, so II knows who they are and Marriott knows what they own.

Perhaps railing against unfair policies and practices is fruitless, but I like to think what goes around comes around and often in less than obvious ways. Such has been my experience. 

Pat


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## sandytoes (Sep 15, 2006)

Ocean Point posts the "pecking" order for villa assignments on their website for all to see. They state they have a high percentage of owner occupied units. There are other disclaimers at this site regarding II. When I visited Ocean Point in May, I got what they gave me. When I took the tour and saw the ocean front view . . . I was will to pay top dollar to get an ocean front three bedroom unit to guarantee I get what I wanted in the future. It  is also nice to know that if I want to try to upgrade through II, I will be 4th in the"pecking" order to get the room I want. I could have purchased another Manor Club for less money upfront and less maintenance fee. I would be fairly certain I could exchange into Ocean Point, especially in the off season. But, I would not expect to get the best views as I did not spend the extra monies. As a Marriott Owner, I have always been treated with respect and appreciation at each check-in. I also feel as a Marriott Owner, the desk clerk has tried to do the best they could with the room assignments. As I view it . . . you win some and you lose some as far as the view. As far as the Marriott resorts . . . they are all winners!

In May at Ocean Point, I tried to do a room upgrade on a Friday check-in from a one bedroom to a two bedroom. I was told until all the owners had check-in on Sunday, they could not do any upgrades. The owners have first preference . . . seemed fair to me. If you own something you should get preferential treatment. IF you don't . . . you don't.

Villa assignment order for Marriott Ocean Point . . . . .

Ocean Pointe _multiple_-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks ("in season") 

Ocean Pointe _single_-week Owners occupying their ownership week ("in season") 
Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International 
Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval International 
Multiple-week Marriott Owners at another MVCI resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International 
Single-week Marriott Owners at another MVCI resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International 
Guests visiting Ocean Pointe on a Sales Preview Package 
Ocean Pointe Owners that are _renting_ a guest room or villa 
Marriott Reward Members that are visiting Ocean Pointe on Marriott Reward point redemption 
Guests that are renting a guest room or villa 
Owners of resorts outside Marriott Vacation Club International exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International


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## Dave M (Sep 15, 2006)

If I understand your point, Perry, you believe that owners at other Marriott resorts should probably be in about the same pecking order as shown in sandytoes' list (and my comparable list earlier in this thread.) However, those other Marriott owners should have a separate priority order within that subgroup for assigning units, based on what they give up for the exchange. If so, I agree. If not, please elaborate for me.

Note that the current policy generally prohibits owners at resorts from upgrading their view in the pecking order listed for a reservation at their home resort, thus leaving open for exchangers the great view (e.g., Oceanfront") units available through an exchange.


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## ZCar (Sep 15, 2006)

I'm rather against upgrading, whether an owner or an exchanger.
The exchanger, through II, should get what the owner deposited.
If that's better than a Garden View owner gets, so be it.

If a Garden View owner is upgraded, it simply dilutes the the purchase of, say the Ocean View owner. Why buy, if there's a good chance of being upgraded?

Now what happens if I were to trade our OF Maui for Desert Springs Villas? All DS Villas are regarded as "Excellent Views". Obviously, some views are more excellent. Would I be "entitled" to the best "Excellent View", maybe over some owners? ... and who would determine which view is best? 
Other Marriott's may also have only one view. 

Also, suppose I have reserved a week: 
It's mine whether I show up on time or never show. That week and view must be available for my use. If I show up a day late and they have given my Villa to someone else, what happens?

So, I'll stick with "you get what you buy" and that's why we bought where we did and the view we wanted. All quite nice.

The parking fees mentioned, vary between resorts. Kauai & DS have none, Maui does and I believe Ko'Olina doesn't charge Marriott owners.


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## stacyl (Sep 15, 2006)

anyone got a 'pecking order' for the marriott maui ocean club? i would be interested to see what my options are as an owner/trader/etc... thanks.


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## tsl (Sep 15, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> I just returned from the Marriott Barony Beach in Hilton Head.  I was allowed to request an ocean view room but when I got there I was advised that only Barony owners get ocean view, Marriott system exchangers get the next best building, and out of system exchangers get the building furthest from the beach.  They would not tell me if any ocean view units were availalbe.  I think all Marriott listings in II should have a disclaimer stating that exchangers will be treated like third class citizens.  Frankly, I think it is a rip-off and a disgrace.  My opinion of Marriott has dropped dramatically.



Don't feel bad.  I get a similar views when I trade and I am giving up Marriott Ocean Front!

Everything in travel has a "caste" system.  I am writing this as I am stuck in an airport.  I was on American West which I never fly.  That ensures me boarding at the end and a middle seat.  The plane got cancelled and now I am on American.  I am platintum so I board first and may get an upgrade.  It's the same with hotels.  They are all trying to build brand loyalty.  When it works in your favor, it is good.  When it doesn't (esp. when you are used to having elite status as a frequent traveler), it stinks.  

Just my thoughts after a lovely day in the airport


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## Dave M (Sep 15, 2006)

Good point, tsl. There is "discrimination" in so many things that we do regularly. There are preferred views, seats, rates or other benefits for....
Airline seats and upgrades
Hotel room upgrades
Timeshare rental discounts (e.g., the Marriott owners' 25% discount)
Sports and concert tickets (Ever try to get a front row seat? They almost always go to fan club members or season ticket holders.)
Rental car rates (If you don't get some kind of discount, you're probably paying too much)
Discounts on clothing purchases (such as AAA's discount at Brooks Brothers), life insurance (AAA again - at SBLI)
Discounts on movie theater tickets and theme parks (hundreds of sources for discounts) and other retail payments
The best table at your favorite classy restaurant (Many different ways to get it)
Better prices that a manufacturer or service provider give to one customer versus another (based on volume, negotiation, etc.)
Better prices in the flea market (The best negotiator or the last - or first - customer gets the best price)
Promotions. (The son of the boss got it instead of the person that really deserved it)
The person who arrived at the doctor's office after me who gets called to go in before me
The mom that played favorites (in at least one person's opinion) among siblings
.....
The list could run for pages and pages. The realities are that we aren't always prepared when we find out that we have been treated differently than others, as happened with pgnewarkboy. It's also likely that in most situations, we can't change how the system works for many of these examples of different treatment. If we complain, we are likely to find that there are enough people, companies or whatever that like the system as it is that we have to accept it and work with it or refuse, as pgnewarkboy is doing, to patronize such businesses, leaving the different treatment for those that like it or are willing to accept it. But we can never get away from different treatments. They fill our lives.


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## ginsun88 (Sep 15, 2006)

*I'm with ZCar...*

I've stayed at 4 MVCI locations in the last 15 months:

1) previewed Newport Coast Villas, requested OV but got "dead bird decaying on rooftop" view   
2) rented Maui Ocean Club 1BR GV from owner, got high floor corner unit with peek OV (still GV, but probably one of the best GVs)
3) used AC at Shadow Ridge during Memorial week as Marriott exchanger, got requested building but not high floor
4) stayed at KoOlina as OV owner, got OV (whew! didn't have to fret over that one).

I'm with the Baby Boomer belief that you "get what you pay for" even though I try to do better.   

Which reminds me what my high school English teacher once told me -- "You can't always get what you want."


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## Dean (Sep 15, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> If I lock in a juicy week at my Marriott and then rent it out privately, the renter becomes a proxy for me – I expect him to get all the rights and privileges as I, the owner, do.   He can call in 14 days ahead of time and talk to the Room Assigner and, just like me, ask for preferential treatment.  Now as the owner, I might get it or I might not – same with my proxy.
> 
> The name on the reservation could be my brother's or a stranger's it doesn't matter.  If there are parking fees that outsiders pay, my renter doesn’t pay.  He has all the rights and privileges at my Marriott that I, the owner, do.
> 
> ...


Perry, I think the issue is that you put too much importance into the idea of being a Marriott owner for status purposes.  You're really looking at it backwards.  You should expect the lowest unit and hope for better.  When an owner allows someone else to use THEIR unit, it is the same as the owner themselves in most ways.  While I understand the issue of having a non owner be above a Marriott exchanger, I don't agree that the exchanger should expect a leg up in this situation.    



			
				PerryM said:
			
		

> Dave,
> 
> One of the unintended consequences of Marriott not providing an internal exchange program and to foist ALL Marriott owners into a third party exchange company which cares nothing about views.  Marriott decided that this was perfectly acceptable or they could have asked for special considerations for views and fellow Marriott resorts.
> 
> ...


I assume they will do it well if they go to any type of points system.  But assuming that it's a universal system, owners would have to be able to opt out in some way to reserve their own unit type at their home resort.  And like any other change it would likely be to the advantage of some and the disadvantage of others.


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## Dean (Sep 15, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> I have been timesharing for close to 10 years.  I am well aware that owners are given preference at their own resort.  That is not my point.  I think that this topic is like waving a red flag at a bull.  Lets charge ahead before we digest the post.  Shoot first and ask questions later.
> 
> At every other resort I have been to, besides marriott, I could get a better view, IF IT IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN.  Mariott policy is that they don't care what is available.  You still get the worst available unit dependent on your place in the caste system.  Maybe the point of some of the posts is "I paid much money for my view and I don't think that someone who might not have paid as much should have that view even if it is available AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN.  Apparently, that is Marriotts view and policy.  My view is that all exchangers should be treated as honored guests of the resort and that THE WORLD WILL NOT COLLAPSE IF AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN A BETTER VIEW IS AVAILABLE.  It happens that I own a unit at the Sunterra (formerly EVR) at Maui.  I have a deluxe ocean view facing the beach for which I paid extra.  My world will continue to go onif a non-owner is upgraded to that space AT THE TIME OF CHECK IN BECAUSE IT IS AVAILABLE.  In my view, I will not have been cheated because I am not there using my view.  I EXPECT AND WILL GET THE VIEW I PAID FOR EVERY TIME I MAKE A RESERVATION AT MY HOME RESORT.


Maybe I don't understand your expectations.  I don't know of any Marriott resort that has a policy that exchangers get the worst units on campus and better units go empty.  They do have an order of preference for unit assignments and you have seen some lists with similar principles.  There are also those who are directed to a certain unit type, mostly owners to the type they own and renters to the type of agree to pay for.  There are other resorts (non Marriott) that will let all the best units go empty, they usually will upgrade you for a fee.  You pay the $75 a day or whatever and you get the better unit.  Keep your money and get the parking lot view.  But if you're saying you should get the best unit available and empty at that very moment just because you arrived first, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.


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## wsrobinson (Sep 16, 2006)

gvdelizo said:
			
		

> Which reminds me what my high school English teacher once told me -- "You can't always get what you want."



Must have been a Stones fan.


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## kkan (Sep 17, 2006)

From experience and what I have read, Marriott will strip the preferred view rights during the exchange process.  Doesn't this really hurt the owner who paid the high preferred view unit cost rather than the exchanger?  I bet every exchanger the first time exchanging into a Marriott is surprised by the third class treatment.  After that, exchangers will merely assign all Marriott exchanges the value of the lowest view unit.  Maybe II, for accuracy purposes, could show a picture of the back building in their catalog since that is what you are actually exchanging for.

Often, the lowest quality view Marriott unit is acceptable to me and I will exchange into the Marriott.  Other times I prefer a lower rated resort because their average unit that I will get assigned is better than the worst unit at the Marriott.

It seems to me that the biggest loser is the Marriott owner who paid huge money for a preferred view and had some of his trading power taken away by Marriott policy.


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## ZCar (Sep 17, 2006)

Hmmmm ...
Another non-Marriott owner makes incorrect comments.
Quote:
"From experience and what I have read, Marriott will strip the preferred view rights during the exchange process".

Marriott does not do this. Interval International's policy is that one loses all rights to their view when exchanging through them. Remenber, Not Marriott policy. One can use other exchange companies.

Quote:
"It seems to me that the biggest loser is the Marriott owner who paid huge money for a preferred view and had some of his trading power taken away by Marriott policy.".

Not necessarily so. (look at the Resorts we own)
When one knows the rules, play by them. How would Interval handle an exchange, say Maui Ocean Front into Desert Springs, where it's all are excellent" views? Some are more "excellent" than others. Or try the reverse: from Desert to Ocean Front. It's a sound policy by Interval.
Again, remember, Not Marriott's policy. 

Who said so-called trading power is taken away? Do you have proof ... or is it just another uninformed opinion?


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## gmarine (Sep 17, 2006)

kkan said:
			
		

> From experience and what I have read, Marriott will strip the preferred view rights during the exchange process.  Doesn't this really hurt the owner who paid the high preferred view unit cost rather than the exchanger?  I bet every exchanger the first time exchanging into a Marriott is surprised by the third class treatment.  After that, exchangers will merely assign all Marriott exchanges the value of the lowest view unit.  Maybe II, for accuracy purposes, could show a picture of the back building in their catalog since that is what you are actually exchanging for.
> 
> Often, the lowest quality view Marriott unit is acceptable to me and I will exchange into the Marriott.  Other times I prefer a lower rated resort because their average unit that I will get assigned is better than the worst unit at the Marriott.
> 
> It seems to me that the biggest loser is the Marriott owner who paid huge money for a preferred view and had some of his trading power taken away by Marriott policy.



Marriott doesnt strip anything regarding exchange power. The exchange is handled by II. II doesnt either. What II does is say that you as the exchanger are being given a particular size unit but the location and view of the unit is left up to the host resort. 
I have more than a dozen exchanges into Marriott resorts and have never had a bad view. I have had them at other resorts with no complaints from me. I know exactly what II's policies are regarding exchanging so getting a less desirable view is no surprise and also no disappointment.


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## Dean (Sep 18, 2006)

kkan said:
			
		

> From experience and what I have read, Marriott will strip the preferred view rights during the exchange process.  Doesn't this really hurt the owner who paid the high preferred view unit cost rather than the exchanger?  I bet every exchanger the first time exchanging into a Marriott is surprised by the third class treatment.  After that, exchangers will merely assign all Marriott exchanges the value of the lowest view unit.  Maybe II, for accuracy purposes, could show a picture of the back building in their catalog since that is what you are actually exchanging for.
> 
> Often, the lowest quality view Marriott unit is acceptable to me and I will exchange into the Marriott.  Other times I prefer a lower rated resort because their average unit that I will get assigned is better than the worst unit at the Marriott.
> 
> It seems to me that the biggest loser is the Marriott owner who paid huge money for a preferred view and had some of his trading power taken away by Marriott policy.


The view issue only applies to what you own.  Once you're in the exchange system, it is a non issue.  If you take two owners from BB, one from OF and the other Garden view, they are the same as far as II and the destination resort is concerned, Marriott or not.  It certainly brings into question the decision of buying OF and using it for exchanging.  That's one of the reasons I bought the SW GV unit rather than Oceanside.  And also the reason that when I did exchange my GO week for a SW week, I did so using my OS week and not my OF week, which I rented out.  If one buys and expects extra consideration based on the view they own, they don't understand the system.


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## MikeM132 (Sep 22, 2006)

gvdelizo said:
			
		

> Which reminds me what my high school English teacher once told me -- "You can't always get what you want."


You had Mick Jagger for high school English?


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## daventrina (Sep 22, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> at Marriott Maui they say 2 things.
> 1. Garden view owners will get garden view units. They will not be upgraded to ocean view.
> 2. Exchangers (marriott owners) only get what is left after ocean view owners are assigned.


Which is one of the reasons that we now own up the street
...


			
				Jeni said:
			
		

> the owner of the oceanview unit deposits it in II and I pick it up through II...why shouldn't I have the oceanview unit?


II is completely blind to view.


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## NJDave (Sep 23, 2006)

stacyl said:
			
		

> anyone got a 'pecking order' for the marriott maui ocean club? i would be interested to see what my options are as an owner/trader/etc... thanks.



My understanding is that if you own, you get the view you own.  If you exchange, you generally get the view that the owner gave up.

If you own and trade back into the resort, you will be upgraded to the view you own (if available).  Thus, a non owner exchanger may not always get the view assigned through interval since owners will first be upgraded to their view before assigning non owner units.

We traded in and got what we were assigned through interval (i.e. ocean view).  We requested to be overlooking the pool and our request was granted.


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## daventrina (Sep 24, 2006)

NJDave said:
			
		

> If you own and trade back into the resort, you will be upgraded to the view you own (if available)....


MOC official policy is that they "NEVER upgrade owners".:ignore:


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## daventrina (Sep 24, 2006)

englishowner said:
			
		

> I am a Marriott owner and when I go to my home resort I expect to be able to get the unit I want, and I do. When I exchange into another Marriott I politley make request but expect nothing in return, after all if I want a certain view in a certain resort, then I need to dig in my pocket and pay for it, if I get a good view or location, then I'm lucky. Nothing in life comes for free!


Well stated


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## Dean (Sep 24, 2006)

daventrina said:
			
		

> MOC official policy is that they "NEVER upgrade owners".:ignore:


Which is reasonable, esp for a resort still in sales.


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## mlsmn (Sep 24, 2006)

In exchanging to 4 different Marriott timeshares I have gotten good rooms by calling a few days before check in and requesting nicely what I'd like for a location. 

At check in I just ask- were they able to get such and such and the answer has been yes so far. 

A friend who owns 3 Marriott locations once told me only ask for 2 things not 3 or 4 (floor, building, view, not near elevator, renovated etc.). 

You have to pick what's most important. So I read TUG reviews and pick out my requests.


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## californiagirl (Sep 25, 2006)

Had an interesting experience this week at Canyon Villas.  It is pertinent to this thread.  I traded into Canyon Villas.  (Multiple Marriott week owner.)  I had called ahead with my requests.  Non-smoking, high floor, golf course view.  (They were in order of priority for me.)  At check-in we were given non-smoking, first floor, looking at the children's pool/water area.  (No kids with us.)  I politely asked if there was anything else available on a higher floor.  She said that they were all booked up, but she would check.  A few moments later she had us in 2755/56.  Corner room, third floor looking directly onto the golf course!    She then said that the room was not clean yet (it was onlly 3:30) as they did not expect the room to be occupied until the next day.  So we gave our phone number and she called about an hour later to say the room was ready.  I was so happy with the location that I didn't ask questions about why they would hold a room unoccupied overnight.  I think the room has been "blocked" for someone with a Sunday check-in and we got it instead.  

We loved the location and had a great week.  I'm perplexed though about the room assignments.

P.S.  Just saw the extra smilies and had to use them!


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## McFail (Sep 25, 2006)

pgnewarkboy said:
			
		

> Mariott policy is that they don't care what is available.  You still get the worst available unit dependent on your place in the caste system.



This is not true.


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