# Diamond Update



## dude-luv (May 12, 2012)

I am a deeded KBC weeks owner.  Eighteen months ago I bought a DRI sampler points program.  I exchanged into Powhattan Plantation and Poipu Point (where I am writing this comment from).  I was required to attend a sales presentation at both places (a legal requirement for the Sampler Program).  A few observations:

1.  At Powhattan Plantation the sales person said it was illegal for DRI to raise maintenance fees with the expectation of re-marketing these weeks under the points program.  At Poipu, 'junk' weeks (as I called them--weeks surrendered by owners who could not afford them) would definitely be remarketed as this was a good business plan (both the salesperson and her higher up told me this).

2.  My Sampler Program guaranteed a price of 2000 points for $9000 to join the Hawaii Collection and the Club.  Of course this guarantee was no longer valid since policy had changed as of March 31.  Now, to join a collection, a purchaser is required to purchase one-half the allotted points for his deeded timeshare.  My KBC week is worth 8500 points (due to blocking of points, I would be required to purchase 4000 points).  If I was serious about a purchase, I would have produced the contract.

3.  The cost of 4000 points would be $24000.  By the way, 10000 points would be $51000.  Membership in The Club would be included.  No chance.

4.  Asked about an exit strategy if I decided to get out of the whole mess later.  They didn't have an answer.  They said if I had four children, I could give each of them 1/4 of my points.  I mentioned that DRI would love the $278 Club Fee and the $205 Trust Fee.  I said the market for disposing of points was slim and none.  That is why I liked my deed.  They had no answer.

5.  Mentioned the SA of $6000 per unit (per week).  As a member of a trust, I would share that with other trust members.  I mentioned that I didn't want to pay Poipu's SA since that wasn't my resort.

6.  I asked why they aren't bulldozing the Pointe and starting from scratch at $300000 per unit.  They would have to move the foundations because of construction by-laws.  Interesting answer.

7.  Didn't get into the class action lawsuit especially the part about the 'conflict of interest' votes by three of the five HOA council and the withholding of the list of owners.  However, I acknowledged that they purchased a 'mess' with Sunterra and the 11%, 13% and 15% maintenance fees were perhaps warranted.  I also took a shot at them skimming off 25% for management fees.  They didn't deny things.  Mentioned that in my opinion, the best run timeshares were run by owners (Lawai Beach).  They dissed owner run management as unprofessional (the kind of people who 'like to hear themselves talk').  I asked them if they would be interested in purchasing my KBC week (I don't trust them from doing the same thing at KBC).  They prefer to exercise ROFR.  

8.  Still a beautiful resort.  Can't see a whole lot of evidence of 'water intrusion.'  The beach area is beautiful.  Pointed out that we were able to exchange in for an extra week through SFX.  They claimed to know who SFX was.  The people at Powhattan Plantation didn't.  They concluded that I had a good vacation plan already.


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## artringwald (May 12, 2012)

For $51,000 for the Hawaii Trust Collection, and the best you could do at the Point at Poipu for 10,000 points would be a partial ocean view. Do they still find buyers?


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## dougp26364 (May 12, 2012)

artringwald said:


> For $51,000 for the Hawaii Trust Collection, and the best you could do at the Point at Poipu for 10,000 points would be a partial ocean view. Do they still find buyers?



Sure they do but, with smaller "entry level" points packages. They get you in, then get you to upgrade in small bites at future owner updates.


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## fluke (May 17, 2012)

Wow I am amazed by those prices as well.  How can DRI make sales at that level?  $51, 000  and you can't even reserve KBC deluxe ocean view 1 bedrooom for a week.

I bought my Marriott Ko Olina 3 bedroom oceanview from the developer less than that.


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## dougp26364 (May 17, 2012)

fluke said:


> Wow I am amazed by those prices as well.  How can DRI make sales at that level?  $51, 000  and you can't even reserve KBC deluxe ocean view 1 bedrooom for a week.
> 
> I bought my Marriott Ko Olina 3 bedroom oceanview from the developer less than that.



You should take a look at other points programs like Marriott's. It's about the same if not higher. I think Marriott is selling points around $10/point and some resort weeks take upwards of 6,000 points for a two bedroom unit.
HGVC isn't much better. Some of their weeks in Hawaii run upwards of $100,000 when you do the math. 

Points programs are good in that they offer the consumer flexablity but, they also allow developers flexablity in packaging programs that are affordable, even when the price of a full week might be astronomical. It keeps the door open to sell to the middle income brackets who are more likely to buy while at the same time increasing the price of a full week to levels not typically within reach of the average person. 

4,000 points won't get you very far in the system but, trying to sell someone the dream at $24,000 is much easier than selling a nightmare of a monthly payment at $100,000. It's tough for most people to reason out spending as much for one weeks accomadtaions as it does to buy a car or, in some cases, buy a full ownership vacation home. 

OTH, there were those who were buying multiple weeks at a south Florida resort we own at because $300,000 to $500,000 was cheaper than buying a condo next door for $2,000,000. Plus, they didn't have to worry about furnishing it, renting it out when they were there, insurance, taxes or maintenance. They just pay the MF's and blaze on.


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## pianodinosaur (May 20, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> You should take a look at other points programs like Marriott's. It's about the same if not higher. I think Marriott is selling points around $10/point and some resort weeks take upwards of 6,000 points for a two bedroom unit.
> HGVC isn't much better. Some of their weeks in Hawaii run upwards of $100,000 when you do the math.
> 
> Points programs are good in that they offer the consumer flexablity but, they also allow developers flexablity in packaging programs that are affordable, even when the price of a full week might be astronomical. It keeps the door open to sell to the middle income brackets who are more likely to buy while at the same time increasing the price of a full week to levels not typically within reach of the average person.
> ...




Fortunately points are points within the HGVC system.  A resale purchase in Hawaii may be obtained on ebay for a reasonable price at this time.


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## quikitikit (Jul 8, 2013)

*DRI Update*



dude-luv said:


> I am a deeded KBC weeks owner.  Eighteen months ago I bought a DRI sampler points program.  I exchanged into Powhattan Plantation and Poipu Point (where I am writing this comment from).  I was required to attend a sales presentation at both places (a legal requirement for the Sampler Program).  A few observations:
> 
> 1.  At Powhattan Plantation the sales person said it was illegal for DRI to raise maintenance fees with the expectation of re-marketing these weeks under the points program.  At Poipu, 'junk' weeks (as I called them--weeks surrendered by owners who could not afford them) would definitely be remarketed as this was a good business plan (both the salesperson and her higher up told me this).
> 
> ...






As a Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort (CA) owner (LTVR), we bought our week timeshare from a 3rd party in 2009.   On June 25, 2013, we were given a leaflet that regarding owners update, there would be “no high pressure sales”.  So my hubby and I decided to attend the update.

The sales person explained to us the DRI points system and how it worked.  This took about 2 ½ hours.  If we traded in our week to points, we would get 5,500 points and if we purchased an additional 4,000 points for a total of about 9,500 points, we could get it for some really high outrageous amount, I can’t remember but it was over $40,000 or $50,000.  We didn’t want to make any purchase and we were turned over to a “turnover” person, her manager.

The TO manager, then brought in the price sheet when we attended the 2009 owners update which showed for 17,000 points, the price was $55,890 and for 8,500 points the price was $28,250.  which expired on Oct. 2009.  The TO manager then revised the salesperson’s figures so that it was down to about $11,000 + for about 9,500 points.  We said we wanted until Friday to think about this.  If we were serious about purchasing points, he asked for my driver’s license and credit card – most likely to do a credit check.  The TO manager, came back without my license and credit card with a revised figure where for 8,000 points, the proposed purchase price would be $9,575. or $1.1968 or $1.20 per point!!  He said if he revised the price down to under $10,000 and thus dropping the points purchase down to 8,000 points, he felt we would be willing to sign and make the purchase.  I told him my hubby and I don’t want to sign any papers today, but to allow us until Wednesday, the next day to think about this.  He said he couldn’t give us that time to think about it.  So my hubby and I got up and started to leave the salesperson’s office after I got my license and credit card back.  The TO manager said there would be another person to give us some closing papers (?).   When we were walking out of the timeshare meeting area, another person, the TO Sampler Representative came to talk with us.  

The Sampler Representative (a 2nd TO person), then talked about the Sampler Program where for $2,295 we would be given 15,000 points to try out the points system.  The purchase price would be credited to the points we buy if we purchased them within 18 months at the above proposed price.  Any additional points we wanted could be purchased at the same $1.20 rate.  So we bought this Sampler Package to try out because at least we had more time to think about this with at most $2,295 outlay.  Sampler program allowed us to try the DRI point system out and any points not used within 18 months would be rolled over to any points we purchased within 18 months but had to be used within 2 years.  Any trip we took required us to sit through an owners update at that resort.  

After reading DRI info on TUG, and how “The Club” fees (more than doubled from 2005 to 2012) and some maintenance fees have gone up much higher than regular week’s maintenance fee, we decided, we didn’t want to purchase any DRI points and cancelled the Sampler purchase within the 7 days required for a full refund.  My credit card was charged for the Sampler Program and will look forward to the full refund.  

A friend of ours who bought his Diamond timeshare from the courthouse, bought the minimum of 4,000 points.  We didn’t ask him the price for those points.  But in reading on TUG of how the maintenance fees were high for little points, this is one reason we didn’t buy.

We also own a week timeshare at Marriott Newport Coast (CA), use is every even year.  As another TUG user suggested, we will go to Marriott’s update next year and their club fee is $175 dollars versus DRI’s $299.  Though their points are $11.00 per point, their program is worth checking into after reading their about their point program online.  I will read about Marriott’s point system on TUG, but I’m glad to be informed about DRI from TUG in deciding to not purchase their program.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 8, 2013)

dude-luv said:


> 8.  Still a beautiful resort.  Can't see a whole lot of evidence of 'water intrusion.'  The beach area is beautiful.  Pointed out that we were able to exchange in for an extra week through SFX.  They claimed to know who SFX was.  The people at Powhattan Plantation didn't.  They concluded that I had a good vacation plan already.



When I was at Poipu in August the water staining and intrusion was very obvious on the northeast face of Building 8.  Staining commenced just below floor 3 went down most of the way to the ground.  

I looking at the wall almost directly parallel to the wall, "bubbles" in the sheathing were also apparent.  That was the most apparent water damage that I saw at that time.  I did observe similar bubbling of the sheathing in other areas that had been mentioned in the water intrusion report as areas of damage, such as the southwest wall of building 8, facing the swimming pool.


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## ccwu (Jul 8, 2013)

Tomalier said:


> As a Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort (CA) owner (LTVR), we bought our week timeshare from a 3rd party in 2009.   On June 25, 2013, we were given a leaflet that regarding owners update, there would be “no high pressure sales”.  So my hubby and I decided to attend the update.
> 
> The sales person explained to us the DRI points system and how it worked.  This took about 2 ½ hours.  If we traded in our week to points, we would get 5,500 points and if we purchased an additional 4,000 points for a total of about 9,500 points, we could get it for some really high outrageous amount, I can’t remember but it was over $40,000 or $50,000.  We didn’t want to make any purchase and we were turned over to a “turnover” person, her manager.
> 
> ...




We were in KBC. We attend an owner's update. Since we are DRI platinum elite, we had plenty of points and not looking for any more. We end up buying a little more (4000 points) for amount more than double of your $1.20 per point. my point is Hawaii collection.  They offer to have some of my not used Timeshares to converted to DRI points if I want thru Diamond Select and I could use the points for reservation or II exchange. I am pleased with DRI's II exchange.  We plan to travel to Asian and looking to exchange into Bangkok, China and Japan. That is why we bought more and bring our other resorts to DRI. Supposedly, platinum elite members should have the lowest per point cost comparing to other new members.


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## csalter2 (Jul 9, 2013)

*I have heard about people like you!*



ccwu said:


> We were in KBC. We attend an owner's update. Since we are DRI platinum elite, we had plenty of points and not looking for any more. We end up buying a little more (4000 points) for amount more than double of your $1.20 per point. my point is Hawaii collection.  They offer to have some of my not used Timeshares to converted to DRI points if I want thru Diamond Select and I could use the points for reservation or II exchange. I am pleased with DRI's II exchange.  We plan to travel to Asian and looking to exchange into Bangkok, China and Japan. That is why we bought more and bring our other resorts to DRI. Supposedly, platinum elite members should have the lowest per point cost comparing to other new members.



I have heard salesman talk about people who are platinum that still buy points.  I thought it was just salesman talk. [ want to know how do you use all of those points each year? You have got to be retired. I have 30,000 and have to roll some over each year.  I like Club Select. I have used it to go to other resorts, but I have not turned in my property to DRI yet to get the additional 12,000 points. I won't do that until I am going far like you are. It's a good feature. I am amazed that you did not have that already and they made you buy more points to get it. They should have just given it to you instead of making you buy more points. You don't have to be platinum to do that. 

Also, you still pay the same fees and price per point that other owners do. Your price per point goes down not because your paying less but because you have more points under the Club and Collection fees. So you have more point under the Club and Collection. However, I must say that over $7000 in maintenance fees is mentally rich for me. It would kill me to pay that and my Marriott maintenance fee each year.


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## ccwu (Jul 9, 2013)

csalter2 said:


> I have heard salesman talk about people who are platinum that still buy points.  I thought it was just salesman talk. [ want to know how do you use all of those points each year? You have got to be retired. I have 30,000 and have to roll some over each year.  I like Club Select. I have used it to go to other resorts, but I have not turned in my property to DRI yet to get the additional 12,000 points. I won't do that until I am going far like you are. It's a good feature. I am amazed that you did not have that already and they made you buy more points to get it. They should have just given it to you instead of making you buy more points. You don't have to be platinum to do that.
> 
> Also, you still pay the same fees and price per point that other owners do. Your price per point goes down not because your paying less but because you have more points under the Club and Collection fees. So you have more point under the Club and Collection. However, I must say that over $7000 in maintenance fees is mentally rich for me. It would kill me to pay that and my Marriott maintenance fee each year.



Diamond has a sales force just target platimum elite member.  They are specially trained, I guess.  I asked for my sales person who sold me the points to platinum elite. I was told that he was not allowed to deal with platinum members.  I was depressed and telling the platinum elite sales person that I do like him a lot.  I was thinking not to sit in the update since I do not have my favorite sales person.  She started telling us all the new purchase and changes in DRI....and what services they enhanced for Platinum elite..  Usually we scared off sales person just by telling them how many timeshares we had, How many points we had.  They would make it short.  HGVC always made it short (30 minutes or less) for us and gave us the gift for just showing up.

The MF is the same as any other member.  I only pay one club fees.  I have also a small amount of points 13,000 pts of US collection that I have to pay separate trust fee.  They did ask me to see if I want to combine and switch it to Hawaii collecion.  I figure I have advance reservation advantage to make reservation for St. Maarten and Lake Tahoe (for winter skiing) and I did not want to change it.  Our MF per point cost in 2013 is about $0.14.  The Hawaii Collection and US collection MF is about the same.

My husband just took early retirement so we can travel more.  We travel a lot.  I sometimes rent to friends and families for excessive points.  I did refer them to the sale person for promotional offer.  None of them interested in buying.  We do have friends and family who bought condos and apartment in Jackson Hole, Hawaii and Asia so they can spend a few months over there in any year.  We figure our timeshare is cheaper than buying a winter getaway house.  For owning house or condo, you need to maintain the house, pay taxes... and cleaning.  We only need to pay MF, make reservation and show up.


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## csalter2 (Jul 9, 2013)

ccwu said:


> Diamond has a sales force just target platimum elite member.  They are specially trained, I guess.  I asked for my sales person who sold me the points to platinum elite. I was told that he was not allowed to deal with platinum members.  I was depressed and telling the platinum elite sales person that I do like him a lot.  I was thinking not to sit in the update since I do not have my favorite sales person.  She started telling us all the new purchase and changes in DRI....and what services they enhanced for Platinum elite..  Usually we scared off sales person just by telling them how many timeshares we had, How many points we had.  They would make it short.  HGVC always made it short (30 minutes or less) for us and gave us the gift for just showing up.
> 
> The MF is the same as any other member.  I only pay one club fees.  I have also a small amount of points 13,000 pts of US collection that I have to pay separate trust fee.  They did ask me to see if I want to combine and switch it to Hawaii collecion.  I figure I have advance reservation advantage to make reservation for St. Maarten and Lake Tahoe (for winter skiing) and I did not want to change it.  Our MF per point cost in 2013 is about $0.14.  The Hawaii Collection and US collection MF is about the same.
> 
> My husband just took early retirement so we can travel more.  We travel a lot.  I sometimes rent to friends and families for excessive points.  I did refer them to the sale person for promotional offer.  None of them interested in buying.  We do have friends and family who bought condos and apartment in Jackson Hole, Hawaii and Asia so they can spend a few months over there in any year.  We figure our timeshare is cheaper than buying a winter getaway house.  For owning house or condo, you need to maintain the house, pay taxes... and cleaning.  We only need to pay MF, make reservation and show up.



Having both the US and Hawaii Collections gives you two separate collection fees.  I understand wanting to have the reservation advantage, thus having the both collections. I have the US Collection but go to Hawaii pretty often so I have considered buying the Hawaiian Collection, but buying those points resale.  

Most platinum members I know do travel a lot, but they also say they give a lot of points away to family and friends, which is why I don't buy more points. The free upgrades that platinum receives is great! That is a plus! 

I am a part of a DRI members site on Facebook. You may wish to join. We have members from all over the world on the site. We share lots of info and strategies specific to DRI on it.  Come on over. It's facebook and search for Diamond Resorts Members. There are some very wise platinum members there too.


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## quikitikit (Jul 10, 2013)

ccwu said:


> We were in KBC. We attend an owner's update. Since we are DRI platinum elite, we had plenty of points and not looking for any more. We end up buying a little more (4000 points) for amount more than double of your $1.20 per point. my point is Hawaii collection.  They offer to have some of my not used Timeshares to converted to DRI points if I want thru Diamond Select and I could use the points for reservation or II exchange. I am pleased with DRI's II exchange.  We plan to travel to Asian and looking to exchange into Bangkok, China and Japan. That is why we bought more and bring our other resorts to DRI. Supposedly, platinum elite members should have the lowest per point cost comparing to other new members.



I received from TO Sampler Rep "The Club Select" the July 2013 printout for owners (unlike sampler club where one must pay cash) where owners can use points to book places.  The Hawaiian resorts required from 3250 points to 7500 points (July and August) for 1 bedroom or simply assuming $1.00 per point $3,250 to $7500.  To minimize points usage, if booked within 60 days, used points would be 1/2 or 1625 points to 3750.   So best usage for points is to book within 60 days.  By trading our 1 bedroom in LTVR (EOY usage) through II, we went to the Big Island in 2011(1 bedroom) and this Dec. to Marriott Ko'Olina (studio) and one year to Sedona, AZ (1 bedroom, resort a recent DRI acquisition) and still used our studio at LTVR each time.  When looking at DRI's points and DRI location, we felt we would be limited in where we wanted to go.  The price for points and maintenance fees, appeared major and is a major long term commitment.

I looked at DRI's Worldwide Resort Destinations and there is nothing in China, Japan, or Bangkok, though several in Thailand.  There is also nothing in Paris, France, London, England, and only one resort each in Norway and Sweden.  Thus it seems DRI resorts are in areas to really relax and do nothing.  So I decided if I really wanted to travel to where I want to go, we will pay the hotel costs (we've even stayed in hostels!).  I guess DRI works well for some and not for others.


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## quikitikit (Jul 10, 2013)

ccwu said:


> We were in KBC. We attend an owner's update. Since we are DRI platinum elite, we had plenty of points and not looking for any more. We end up buying a little more (4000 points) for amount more than double of your $1.20 per point. my point is Hawaii collection.  They offer to have some of my not used Timeshares to converted to DRI points if I want thru Diamond Select and I could use the points for reservation or II exchange. I am pleased with DRI's II exchange.  We plan to travel to Asian and looking to exchange into Bangkok, China and Japan. That is why we bought more and bring our other resorts to DRI. Supposedly, platinum elite members should have the lowest per point cost comparing to other new members.



I received from TO Sampler Rep "The Club Select" the July 2013 printout for owners (unlike sampler club where one must pay cash) where owners can use points to book places.  The Hawaiian resorts required from 3250 points to 7500 points (July and August) for 1 bedroom or simply assuming $1.00 per point $3,250 to $7500.  To minimize points usage, if booked within 60 days, used points would be 1/2 or 1625 points to 3750.   So best usage for points is to book within 60 days.  By trading our 1 bedroom in LTVR (EOY usage) through II, we went to the Big Island in 2011(1 bedroom) and this Dec. to Marriott Ko'Olina (studio) and one year to Sedona, AZ (1 bedroom, resort a recent DRI acquisition) and still used our studio at LTVR each time.  When looking at DRI's points and DRI location, we felt we would be limited in where we wanted to go.  The price for points and maintenance fees, appeared major and is a major long term commitment.

I looked at DRI's Worldwide Resort Destinations and there is nothing in China, Japan, or Bangkok, though several in Thailand.  There is also nothing in Paris, France, London, England, and only one resort each in Norway and Sweden.  Thus it seems DRI resorts are in areas to really relax and do nothing.  So I decided if I really wanted to travel to where I want to go, we will pay the hotel costs (we've even stayed in hostels!).  I guess DRI works well for some and not for others.


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