# 10 Things Travelers Hate About Asia



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 1, 2018)

10 Things Travelers Hate About Asia
By Greg Rodgers/ Asia/ TripSavvy/ tripsavvy.com

"Although traveling our planet’s biggest and most diverse continent is certainly rewarding, a few aspects really present a pain in the backside for new visitors. Fortunately, the good certainly outweighs the bad -- but be on the lookout for these common annoyances and frustrations!..."







Richard


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## WinniWoman (Jun 2, 2018)

I never had any desire to visit any Asian country. If I ever did, though, which I doubt I will be able to, it would probably be Japan.

And I hate crowds, which is one of several reasons why we have not made a trip to Italy (Rome) which has been on our list to visit someday.

After reading this article, for sure I would not visit Asia. My brother was in China once for business and he said the food was awful as well. I could barely tolerate the food in Scotland. (except the fish and chips).

To me, having to deal with crowds and thieves and bad/weird food is not a vacation, but torture, though I understand the lure of seeing and experiencing some of the wonderful cultural and natural sights.


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## Dori (Jun 2, 2018)

Asia was never on our bucket list, with exception of Japan. However, our son worked in South Korea, where he met and married his wonderful Korean wife. We travelled to Seoul four times, two of those visits to celebrate their beautiful traditional Korean wedding, and for the birth of our precious granddaughter.

Our son was offered a job with the American International School in Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam, so of course, when they moved there, we visited them. We returned again for the birth of our sweet grandson.

I am so glad that we have had these amazing opportunities to see parts of the world that we never had considered. We are looking forward to our next visit to beautiful Vietnam.

Dori


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2018)

I just arrived in Taiwan. So far, it is nothing like this article describes. Staying at the W Hotel and at the Marriot in Taipei and doing excursions to other parts of Taiwan. We are here for 10 days. I think this author generalized about an entire continent without being specific about different countries and even various cities in each country. A lot of Asia is westernized now and has high GDP on a par with many western countries. I am looking forward to visiting all of Asia in the future. BTW, I live in the Bay Area in California. I already feel like I live in Asia. Arriving at the airport in Taipei felt very comfortable to me.


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## JudiZ (Jun 2, 2018)

I spent ten days in China a few years ago. The crowds were daunting. Part of our journey was by train and it was nothing short of terrifying to be "in line" that consists of nothing more than a crush of thousands of people. Whether we were in Beijing or a small outlying town, sanitation standards are different than most American cities; while the squat toilets took some adjusting to, my real concern was how filthy most were. Flying within the country was a step back in time. The plane, of course, was modern but the flight attendants were all women dressed in tailored uniforms, white gloves and pillbox hats. 1960s United Airlines style. We had a two hour flight and were served a full, and delicious meal.  

Individual people were lovely, the sights were nothing short of astounding and I consider it one of the high points of my travel life. I also consider it a once-in-a-lifetime trip that I would never want to do again. It was wonderful but I saw what I wanted to see and will stick closer to home. Our days of international travel are nearly over anyway.


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## pedro47 (Jun 2, 2018)

I agreed with all ten (10) traffic, bathrooms & crowds are my top picks. #1 All American visiting Asia are not rich.


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## am1 (Jun 2, 2018)

First time visiting Europe (London) and we were in the immigration line with an Air India flight.  Was enough to turn me off the country completely.  Hopefully we still visit other parts of Asia.


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## turkel (Jun 2, 2018)

The article was accurate. Experienced all 10 on our honeymoon to Thailand. Now does that mean people won't enjoy going? I think that's up to each persons tolerance.

We had a good time, but it's 24 hours travel time away. Have no plans to go back.....lots left to see in other areas of the world.


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2018)

If all this turns you guys off, then you would hate the Bay Area! I am very comfortable in Asian culture because some of my best friends are Taiwanese, Chinese and Vietnamese. The Bay Area is a melting pot of Asia including Indians too. We actually do not have as many Japanese in the Bay Area, relatively speaking. If anyone has ever been to Cupertino, where Apple is headquartered, it is almost entirely Chinese including the street signs, yet it is one of the most expensive cities in the Bay Area because the public schools are the best in the nation.

Back to our subject, in the W hotel in Taipei, we have an electric heated toilet in our hotel room that opens when you approach it and automatically flushes too. The technology in our hotel room is very impressive. Our W hotel room has a direct view of Taipei 101, an architectural gem with 101 floors. Very few tourists from western countries visit Taiwan. It is very advanced but mostly a business destination. GDP is the same as Germany. Taiwan is great for sightseeing and the National Palace Museum holds more of the Imperial art and treasures from China than China has. In fact, the museum rarely does traveling tours to other countries because its treasures are so valuable and they will never do a tour in mainland China out of worry that China will seize their treasures and art.

I am looking down at the streets right now and no traffic this morning. Very little traffic coming in on a Saturday night either. The architecture here is new and modern, along with some historic temples. The food downstairs in the food stalls looks and smells delicious and has a European flair. The city is flat surrounded by beautiful green hills and there are many parks all over the city. Taipei sort of reminds me of a mix of New York City, Vancouver, Copenhagen and Sydney. By the way, you do not have to rich to enjoy Taipei. The hotels are very affordable for the quality and luxury level. However, there are no timeshares in Taiwan. We were considering a side trip to Southern Taiwan or a nearby Asian city like Hong Kong or Shanghai but there is so much to see just in Northern Taiwan. Taiwan was once named “Republic of Formosa” which means beautiful island.

Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia are on my bucket list. I know in many Asian countries there is a great disparatity of wealth, like the rest of the world. So I am sure the article is correct about many parts of Asia especially the poor countries in Southeast Asia, the rural areas in mainland China and other rural, third world countries in Asia that are not yet industrialized. However, many countries in Asia like Taiwan and Singapore have high GDP and the highest academic achievement in the world. I have not had a desire to visit South Korea but Seoul sounds like an amazing city that I hear is becoming quite hip.

I recently read the book series Rich Crazy Asians. It is being made into a movie. The book was a soap opera like look into the great wealth in Asia as well as the social hierarchy. Supposedly, the Asians with old money look down on the new wealth of the mainlanders in China. I was asking my friend from Shanghai about this and he said there is definitely a social hierarchy, even just within China, let alone in all of Asia. Singapore seems to be at the top of the social hierarchy. My friend said people from Shanghai are looked up to within China. Taiwan is looked up to within the Bay Area culture and the Taiwanese in the USA have the highest per capita income of any group, much higher than the average American. I admire the work ethic and the value of education among many Asians. That is why I think Asia is taking over the world. Asians are smart, hard working, technologically oriented and business savvy.

Our flight from SFO was 13 hours non stop. We were upgraded to economy plus and have Polaris class on the way home. It did not feel like a long flight to me because I had wifi the entire flight and United has good entertainment on international flights. It was an easier flight for us than going to Europe since there are so few non stop flights from SFO to Europe.

The service in Taipei is outstanding. People are very organized and polite here. So far, I love it and we just arrived last night. The W is one of the hip hotels in Taipei so it is probably not representative. However, Taipei has some very high end hotels that are true 5+ stars. I would rate the W Taipei a 4.75 star hotel. I am a tough evaluator! LOL


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## VacationForever (Jun 2, 2018)

Asia is a continent and this article treats Asia as a country with one culture.  This article is so wrong and propagates bias and ignorance.  Asia is made of many developed and under developed countries.  One cannot be more different from another.  We spent several weeks last year and this year in several parts of Spain, Italy and Greece and  we were commenting that many countries in Asia are far more developed and cleaner than these places.


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## isisdave (Jun 2, 2018)

No mention of the temperature and humidity. Much of Asia is hot-n-steamy most of the time.


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## uop1497 (Jun 2, 2018)

Have anyone flew economy class ticket with United from Hongkong to SFO . If so can you please share your inputs. 

I hope I will have a chance to visit Japan , Korean and  Taiwan in the future.


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## jehb2 (Jun 2, 2018)

I love Japan.  I lived and worked in Japan for several years.  I did my doctoral research in Japan.  Last summer we vacationed 3 weeks in Japan.  My kids had an incredible time.  Most public restrooms in Japan like in the train stations and parks are super modern and super clean.  I can’t believe this article generalized ALL of Asia.


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## pedro47 (Jun 2, 2018)

They are also, many underdeveloped countries in Central & South America liked in Asia.
However, there are cities in UAE that would make New York City, London and Chicago looked liked a third world country and that is IMHP. 
To lived in the United States of America is a blessing and that is also IMHP.


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2018)

Here is something funny and a little off topic. I grew up in Miami, so I feel entitled to say this. Whenever I travel through Miami International Airport, it feels like a third world country. This year, I flew from Cancun to Miami and when I got out in MIA, I was so stressed because MIA is chaotic and outdated compared to CUN. I told my father, who lives in Miami, “Coming from Cancun, Miami feels like a third world country.” We traveled through MIA to Barbados to go to SVG and, once again, MIA was the most disorganized and backwards airport, even compared to the Caribbean. TSA Precheck was closed and we spent an hour in line to get through the “in transit” area.


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Asia is a continent and this article treats Asia as a country with one culture.  This article is so wrong and propagates bias and ignorance.  Asia is made of many developed and under developed countries.  One cannot be more so different from another.  We spent several weeks last year and this year in several parts of Spain, Italy and Greece and  we were commenting that many countries in Asia are far more developed and cleaner than these places.



Totally agree with you. Asia is very diverse, even more so than most other continents. In general, the developed cities in Asia are more advanced than most other cities in the world. I think Asia may just be too “foreign” for most Americans. The culture is very different too so many Americans would not appreciate it.


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## TravelTime (Jun 2, 2018)

isisdave said:


> No mention of the temperature and humidity. Much of Asia is hot-n-steamy most of the time.



What is it with people and weather? We are here in Taipei in June, their hottest and muggiest time of the year. It is fine. I find it humorous that people are so obsessed with the weather. If hot and humid is off your list, then you will miss half the world, if not the entire world since even the Northeastern USA is hot and humid all summer. With global warming, California is becoming hotter and hotter. Many homes were built without AC in Northern California and it now gets into the 90s and 100s in the Bay Area in the summer. Hot and dry vs hot and humid seem to be the choices now. Many parts of Northern Asia have snow and are cold in the winter, though. Some great skiing in Japan.


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## artringwald (Jun 2, 2018)

I visited Japan several times for business. None of the 10 items were too much of an issue for me, except having to use a hole in the ground toilet. I hope I never have to do that again, especially with two artificial knees. Japan is an amazing country, but I have no desire to vacation there.


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## LisaH (Jun 2, 2018)

uop1497 said:


> Have anyone flew economy class ticket with United from Hongkong to SFO . If so can you please share your inputs.
> 
> I hope I will have a chance to visit Japan , Korean and  Taiwan in the future.


What would you like to know? I just did that 10 days ago.


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## Blues (Jun 2, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> #1 All American visiting Asia are not rich.



Heh, you should have had our experience.  In 1998, we booked a tour of China, including the Yangtze river.  But they had terrible floods that spring, and most of the tour group cancelled.  Did I say most?  I mean, everyone except DW and I.

But the tour operator didn't cancel the tour.  In every city, we had a tour guide and driver meet us -- and we toured in a passenger car.  Now, the contents of the tour were dictated by some central agency, and it was a strict requirement that they take us to the "Friendship Store" in every city.  You think that you're targeted as a rich American?  Try going into the Friendship store, which has 3 times as many sales agents as customers, since all the customers cancelled their tours and stayed home.  And go into that store with a private tour guide and private driver.  Do you think we were pegged as "rich Americans"?  Bet your bippy we were 

But we enjoyed the tour all the same.  Eventually, the tour guides (a new one in each city) took pity on us.  We had one say "Look, I'm required to bring you in there.  But just take a quick look, and when you're ready to go, signal to me and we'll leave."

-The Rich American


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## VacationForever (Jun 2, 2018)

Just to share one piece of data, IMF 2017 October Data on wealthiest country in the world, based on per capita income:
12) USA ($59,500)
10) Hong Kong ($61,020)
4) Brunei ($76,740)
3) Singapore ($90,530)

You won't find plumbing systems that are unable to process toilet paper in Singapore, Brunei or Hong Kong. Oh wait, they are in Asia!


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## Passepartout (Jun 2, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Asia is a continent and this article treats Asia as a country with one culture.  This article is so wrong and propagates bias and ignorance.  Asia is made of many developed and under developed countries.  One cannot be more different from another.  We spent several weeks last year and this year in several parts of Spain, Italy and Greece and  we were commenting that many countries in Asia are far more developed and cleaner than these places.


We've visited much of Asia, and I really think the posted article paints Asia with a too-broad brush. I was prepared to read it with a combination of disgust and pity that the author doesn't 'get it'. There is some of both. I expected racism, and compared to what many experience much closer to home the article didn't exhibit a lot. Oh yes, the mother pointing at the foreigners with her child. We had that happen in a restaurant in Shanghai when a family approached us so that a boy of maybe 7-or 8 could say to us "How do you do?" very slowly and articulate each syllable. The rest of the family stood behind him and beamed proudly. I shook his hand and said, "Very well, thanks, and how are you". And thanked them for coming to meet us. In Friendship Stores, uniformed clerks looked at my 'Mai Yo Chen' T-Shirt (means No Money), and laughed and said "Credit Card OK!" We've driven over 800 miles in Thailand from Bangkok to Chaing Mai and Chaing Rai and the Golden Triangle and into Myanmar back in the 1990's. We've slept on a raft in the River Kwai, and participated in a Thai cremation. Yes, we've experienced squat toilets, but also the high tech toilets in Japan with built-in bidets and blow dryers. Oh, yes, I've been is what I considered at the time the most beautiful place on earth for a year in Vietnam when many of the locals didn't like us a lot.

We are different, but in so many ways we are alike too. Yes, Asian culture is different. But go with an open mind. They've been at this business of living a LOT longer than we have. 

Jim


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

artringwald said:


> I visited Japan several times for business. None of the 10 items were too much of an issue for me, except having to use a hole in the ground toilet. I hope I never have to do that again, especially with two artificial knees. Japan is an amazing country, but I have no desire to vacation there.



Where and when did you go? My DH travels to Japan (Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto) regularly now for business and he says hole in the ground toilets are still around in older parts of Japan but generally they are next to a regular toilet. He stays at Grand Hyatt, Park Hyatt, Ritz Carlton and St Regus so they have regular toilets. I do not think Japan would be a vacation spot for me either but it sounds interesting.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

Blues said:


> Heh, you should have had our experience.  In 1998, we booked a tour of China, including the Yangtze river.  But they had terrible floods that spring, and most of the tour group cancelled.  Did I say most?  I mean, everyone except DW and I.
> 
> But the tour operator didn't cancel the tour.  In every city, we had a tour guide and driver meet us -- and we toured in a passenger car.  Now, the contents of the tour were dictated by some central agency, and it was a strict requirement that they take us to the "Friendship Store" in every city.  You think that you're targeted as a rich American?  Try going into the Friendship store, which has 3 times as many sales agents as customers, since all the customers cancelled their tours and stayed home.  And go into that store with a private tour guide and private driver.  Do you think we were pegged as "rich Americans"?  Bet your bippy we were
> 
> ...



I think in the developed parts of Asia, most Americans could not afford to travel here. We are in Taipei and all the stores are designer brands: Versace, Tiffany, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Fendi, Bulgari, St Laurent, and many high end brands I have never heard of. They are pegging us as the poor Americans because Asians are now richer than us! Everyone speaks English so they are trying to help us. All the signs are bi-lingual. I am sitting next to some Asian men speaking to each other in  English.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> We've visited much of Asia, and I really think the posted article paints Asia with a too-broad brush. I was prepared to read it with a combination of disgust and pity that the author doesn't 'get it'. There is some of both. I expected racism, and compared to what many experience much closer to home the article didn't exhibit a lot. Oh yes, the mother pointing at the foreigners with her child. We had that happen in a restaurant in Shanghai when a family approached us so that a boy of maybe 7-or 8 could say to us "How do you do?" very slowly and articulate each syllable. The rest of the family stood behind him and beamed proudly. I shook his hand and said, "Very well, thanks, and how are you". And thanked them for coming to meet us. In Friendship Stores, uniformed clerks looked at my 'Mai Yo Chen' T-Shirt (means No Money), and laughed and said "Credit Card OK!" We've driven over 800 miles in Thailand from Bangkok to Chaing Mai and Chaing Rai and the Golden Triangle and into Myanmar back in the 1990's. We've slept on a raft in the River Kwai, and participated in a Thai cremation. Yes, we've experienced squat toilets, but also the high tech toilets in Japan with built-in bidets and blow dryers. Oh, yes, I've been is what I considered at the time the most beautiful place on earth for a year in Vietnam when many of the locals didn't like us a lot.
> 
> We are different, but in so many ways we are alike too. Yes, Asian culture is different. But go with an open mind. They've been at this business of living a LOT longer than we have.
> 
> Jim



I am blonde and blue eyes and not a single person has stared at me in Taipei. There are very few Caucasian people here but seems like my DH and I just blend in.


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## uop1497 (Jun 3, 2018)

LisaH said:


> What would you like to know? I just did that 10 days ago.



Great, I would like to know how you feel about United's economy seat. Is it comfortable for long hour flight compared with other Asia airlines like ANA or Singapore , how the food and service during the flight . What do you like and not like during your flight with United for this segment ect. 

I read online that people said service and food is bad compared with Asian airline . I am more concerned about the seat cushion for long flight. I have flew with Singapore Air, ANA and Japan Airline , but never with United.


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## VacationForever (Jun 3, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> I think in the developed part of Asia, most Americans could not afford to travel here. We are in Taipei and all the stores are designer brands: Versace, Tiffany, Gucci, Zara, Louis Vuitton, Bulgari, St Laurent, and many  high end brands I have never heard of. They are pegging us as the poor Americans because Asians are now richer than us!


I used to have Asia Pacific responsibilities for work and travelled extensively to many countries.  Several years ago, one of my ex-colleagues from South Korea came to California to enroll her much accomplished artistically (pianist) talented 12 year-old daughter to be schooled here through a scholarship program.  She expressed to me that US was so backwards.  Amongst her many complaints, was one where she could not get her ATM and credit card within the same day at the bank.  Whenever I travelled to Singapore, I would be like a kid in a candy store, taking pictures of all the high tech implementations that I came across, from traffic lights to train stations, and sending them back to my family.


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## LisaH (Jun 3, 2018)

uop1497 said:


> Great, I would like to know how you feel about United's economy seat. Is it comfortable for long hour flight compared with other Asia airlines like ANA or Singapore , how the food and service during the flight . What do you like and not like during your flight with United for this segment ect.
> 
> I read online that people said service and food is bad compared with Asian airline . I am more concerned about the seat cushion for long flight. I have flew with Singapore Air, ANA and Japan Airline , but never with United.


It’s a typical United Trans-Pacific flight, and I don’t think it’s any worse or better than ANA as we flew ANA to Tokyo then  to Bangkok, and United from HKG back to SFO. Seats are comfortable in E+, and neither transpacific flight was full so there was a lot of room to spread. In fact, DH had the entire 3 seat row to himself on United and he had the best sleep on a plane in recent years. Food is so so but wine/alchohol is plentiful. I usually bring a bento/meal box or a sandwich on such long flights in case food is not to my liking. We also had lounge access so taking a banana onto the flight also helps.


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## PigsDad (Jun 3, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> This article is so wrong and propagates bias and ignorance.


Along with several of the earlier posted replies, unfortunately. 

We lived in Singapore for 4 months several years ago and absolutely loved it!  If I could, I would live there in a heartbeat.  Such a nice city/state, and the melting pot of cultures there is amazing.  I have also traveled to Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia.  This article just lumps all of these very diverse cultures into a single "Asian" category, and as seen by some of the more ignorant early replies in this thread, there are obviously many people who do see it as a single culture.  That's like saying all of America is a single culture -- Canada, US, Mexico, Brazil, etc.  Just crazy!

Kurt


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## artringwald (Jun 3, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Where and when did you go? My DH travels to Japan (Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto) regularly now for business and he says hole in the ground toilets are still around in older parts of Japan but generally they are next to a regular toilet. He stays at Grand Hyatt, Park Hyatt, Ritz Carlton and St Regus so they have regular toilets. I do not think Japan would be a vacation spot for me either but it sounds interesting.


The trips were between 1994 and 2006 to Tokyo, Yamagata, Matsumoto, and Kyoto. The only place where I didn't have a choice except to use the hole in the ground toilet was at a manufacturing plant in Yamagata. The hotels where we stayed were all nice except the room in Kyoto was small, hot, and humid so I was getting rather claustrophobic. Because of power shortages, Japanese businesses rarely set the temperature lower than 78. Before my first trip, a friend recommended a book by by Don Maloney, Japan: It's Not All Raw Fish. It's a funny and very informative book about an American who moved his family to Japan and had to adjust to the many cultural differences.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

uop1497 said:


> Great, I would like to know how you feel about United's economy seat. Is it comfortable for long hour flight compared with other Asia airlines like ANA or Singapore , how the food and service during the flight . What do you like and not like during your flight with United for this segment ect.
> 
> I read online that people said service and food is bad compared with Asian airline . I am more concerned about the seat cushion for long flight. I have flew with Singapore Air, ANA and Japan Airline , but never with United.



We just flew Economy Plus on United from SFO to Taipei - 13 hours one way. We got upgraded from Economy. Economy Plus was fairly comfortable for a long distance flight. I can’t say what regular Economy is like right now. We are flying back Polaris class but by looking at the seats, it sounds like United gave a fancy name to Business/First Class but it seems smaller than before. I do look forward to having a “bed” on the way home since I will be working the day we return. Overall, if you are using points or if you got a good cash deal, I would not worry so much about flying economy. We have flown many long distance non stop flights on a variety of airlines. Sometimes we get business class, sometime economy. The reward, assuming this is a trip for leisure, it arriving at your destination. I just focus on that and assume I will be uncomfortable on the flight (unless we get business class) and I will be jet lagged, no matter what class we get.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

artringwald said:


> The trips were between 1994 and 2006 to Tokyo, Yamagata, Matsumoto, and Kyoto. The only place where I didn't have a choice except to use the hole in the ground toilet was at a manufacturing plant in Yamagata. The hotels where we stayed were all nice except the room in Kyoto was small, hot, and humid so I was getting rather claustrophobic. Because of power shortages, Japanese businesses rarely set the temperature lower than 78. Before my first trip, a friend recommended a book by by Don Maloney, Japan: It's Not All Raw Fish. It's a funny and very informative book about an American who moved his family to Japan and had to adjust to the many cultural differences.



I wonder if a lot has changed in Japan since 2006. My husband has great business trips to Japan - never needs to squat over holes. He stays in great modern westernized hotels. He goes out to eat at wonderful restaurants with his boss, colleagues and business partners - and they find great wine since his boss is a wine aficienado. I keep joking that his company probably invited geishas since he seems so eager to go on these trips. LOL I hope to join him on his next trip so I can experience Japan, at least once. A client of mine went to Japan recently and then visited one of their tropical islands and the photos she showed me looked like Bali or Hawaii. I don’t recall the name of the islands but I would love to visit them as a side trip when I go to Japan. So far, no squatting in Taiwan.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

View of Taipei 101 from our room at the W - It held the record as the tallest building in the world for quite a while. It is an engineering achievement. Has the fast elevator in the world.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

The Gardens in front of the National Palace Museum in Taipei. I am surprised by how much landscaping and open space there is all over Taipei. Every street is lined with trees.


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## uop1497 (Jun 3, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> We just flew Economy Plus on United from SFO to Taipei - 13 hours one way. We got upgraded from Economy. Economy Plus was fairly comfortable for a long distance flight. I can’t say what regular Economy is like right now. We are flying back Polaris class but by looking at the seats, it sounds like United gave a fancy name to Business/First Class but it seems smaller than before. I do look forward to having a “bed” on the way home since I will be working the day we return. Overall, if you are using points or if you got a good cash deal, I would not worry so much about flying economy. We have flown many long distance non stop flights on a variety of airlines. Sometimes we get business class, sometime economy. The reward, assuming this is a trip for leisure, it arriving at your destination. I just focus on that and assume I will be uncomfortable on the flight (unless we get business class) and I will be jet lagged, no matter what class we get.



Thanks for additional information. I hope that economy seat is not as small like the one in Japan airline.  I hate jet lag too. No matter what I do after the trip, I stuck with jet lag for around 2 weeks long. If possible, please share your Taiwan trip more.


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## turkel (Jun 3, 2018)

Racist...really? I don't know how you jump to that conclusion from anything posted by anyone in this thread. I guess it just makes you feel bigger and like a better human being to belittle and label others.  I wonder what that makes you?


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## VacationForever (Jun 3, 2018)

turkel said:


> The article was accurate. Experienced all 10 on our honeymoon to Thailand. Now does that mean people won't enjoy going? I think that's up to each persons tolerance.
> 
> We had a good time, but it's 24 hours travel time away. Have no plans to go back.....lots left to see in other areas of the world.


From your one experience in Thailand, the article was accurate?  Asia does not equal Thailand.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 3, 2018)

turkel said:


> Racist...really? I don't know how you jump to that conclusion from anything posted by anyone in this thread. I guess it just makes you feel bigger and like a better human being to belittle and label others.  I wonder what that makes you?



I was just going to post the same. I don't think it is very nice to call people racist or ignorant just because they don't like the idea of visiting certain countries. To each his own.


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## turkel (Jun 3, 2018)

I only mentioned a single trip to Thailand and that the 10 things in the article were accurate based on that trip. Now I am a racist?

I didn't write the article or post it. Surely I shouldn't have commented on it either. 

And we wonder why children are bullied on the internet, clearly the bullies learn it somewhere. 

TUG is not the place for such nonsense and name calling.


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## VacationForever (Jun 3, 2018)

I did not call anyone racist, including the author, but the author was biased and ignorant.  Many posts here do feed the bias and ignorance.

For those of you who reacted and thought someone called you racist may want to re-examine why you felt you needed to be defensive.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 3, 2018)

The smoking (and cig butts all over) in many Asian countries prevents us from traveling there.  Japan and Singapore not as bad - but other places... the amount of smoking and associated cig butt litter is disgusting.  This goes for everywhere where smoking is pervasive - not just Asia - but certainly bad there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WinniWoman (Jun 3, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> I did not call anyone racist, including the author, but the author was biased and ignorant.  Many posts here do feed the bias and ignorance.
> 
> For those of you who reacted and thought someone called you racist may want to re-examine why you felt you needed to be defensive.



I don't know who specifically it was directed at but it certainly wasn't directed at people who LIKE to travel to Asia.That doesn't leave many other possibilities. No matter whom it was directed at, it was uncalled for.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 3, 2018)

My brother is a world traveler due to his job and he has always told me how bad the smoking is overseas in general.


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## VacationForever (Jun 3, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I don't know who specifically it was directed at but it certainly wasn't directed at people who LIKE to travel to Asia.That doesn't leave many other possibilities. No matter whom it was directed at, it was uncalled for.


I did not use the word racist at all and my last post was in response to turkel because all of a sudden she said she was being called racist.   Please re-read the thread.  I don't even know if anyone in this thread actually did.  Bias does not equate to being racist. I do not like NY city because from my 3 trips there, it was filthy.  My bias is that I treat all NY city as being undesirable but it does not make me a racist.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 3, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> I did not use the word racist at all and my last post was in response to turkel because all of a sudden she said she was being called racist.   Please re-read the thread.  I don't even know if anyone in this thread actually did.  Bias does not equate to being racist. I do not like NY city because from my 3 trips there, it was filthy.  My bias is that I treat all NY city as being undesirable but it does not make me a racist.




 Yes I know. It was some one else who posted that - the racist and ignorant remark.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

It’s Monday morning in the business district of Taipei. I wanted to share a photo of the “heavy” traffic.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

Artwork in the streets of Taipei


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## PigsDad (Jun 3, 2018)

turkel said:


> I only mentioned a single trip to Thailand and that the 10 things in the article were accurate based on that trip. Now I am a racist?



The first person to mention the word "racist" on this thread is *you* in post #36 (do a search to verify).  Not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that someone called you a racist; no one did.  You might want to carefully read what was said before calling others "bullies".

Just for clarification:
biased ≠ racist
ignorant ≠ racist

Kurt


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

*China increasingly challenges American dominance of science*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...90efaf1f1ee_story.html?utm_term=.c9880a44e95e

Below is an excerpt from the Washington Post article. If you are interested, click on the link to read the entire article.

After decades of American dominance, Chinese science is ascendant, and it is luring scientists like Pastor-Pareja away from the United States. Even more China-born scientists are returning from abroad to a land of new scientific opportunity.

The United States spends half a trillion dollars a year on scientific research — more than any other nation on Earth — but China has pulled into second place, with the European Union third and Japan a distant fourth.

China is on track to surpass the United States by the end of this year, according to the National Science Board. In 2016, annual scientific publications from China outnumbered those from the United States for the first time.

“There seems to be a sea change in how people are talking about Chinese science,” said Alanna Krolikowski, a Chinese science expert at Missouri University of Science and Technology. Foreign observers, many of whom were once condescending, now “are rather in awe at what the Chinese policies have accomplished.”

The scientific advances are a small piece of China’s larger ambitions. President Xi Jinping aims to supplant the United States as the world’s economic superpower within three decades. In October, Xi vowed to produce “a world-class army by 2050.”

Meanwhile, China is spending more on infrastructure than the United States or Europe, and the middle class has ballooned — making relocation more attractive.

“More and more people keep coming, that’s for sure,” Pastor-Pareja said. “Right now, China is the best place in the world to start your own laboratory.”


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## jehb2 (Jun 3, 2018)

We saw TONS of women smoking in France.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 3, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> The first person to mention the word "racist" on this thread is *you* in post #36 (do a search to verify).  Not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that someone called you a racist; no one did.  You might want to carefully read what was said before calling others "bullies".
> 
> Just for clarification:
> biased ≠ racist
> ...


Are we sure that there are not posts that have since been deleted  by moderators? I don't know the whole back story, but rather giving the benefit of the doubt.


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## VacationForever (Jun 3, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> Are we sure that there are not posts that have since been deleted  by moderators? I don't know the whole back story, but rather giving the benefit of the doubt.


I am pretty sure it is not the case because I have been reading this thread whenever it popped up.  I believe it is a case of over reaction by a poster who somehow read this thread as something of a personal attack.


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## artringwald (Jun 3, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> View attachment 7010 Artwork in the streets of Taipei


Artwork in Minneapolis.


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## TravelTime (Jun 3, 2018)

Good news, there is LOVE around the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Love_sculptures


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## artringwald (Jun 3, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> Good new, there is LOVE around the world.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Love_sculptures



 Love is all you need. ( John Lennon / Paul Mccartney)


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## Jimster (Jun 4, 2018)

I have traveled throughout Asia several times and much of what is said is true.  But don’t forget the last part.  That the good outweighs the bad.  I agree entirely.

To me Asia has almost a pecking order with Japan and China clearly at the top. Cambodia is clearly at the bottom.  The others fit in between.  You don’t have to be in a particular country very long to figure out where they fit.  So you can’t talk about Asia as if it were monolithic.  

Personally, I enjoy the diversity and the people and the cultures.  Some people just can’t stand to get out of their comfort zone.  That’s too bad because some day circumstances may force them to.  The world is changing and there should be no expectation that the “culture” we enjoy will remain static.  If you are old enough, you should realize that.  You used to send letters- not emails.  You used to watch the three networks as your only choices-now if you don’t have 200 channels you are isolated and underprivileged.  We need to learn to adapt.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

I agree and I would add that Taiwan and Singapore are also high on the pecking order based on GDP, living standards and economic development. Is this any different than the USA pecking order? Or the Marriott Vacation Club pecking order - Select, Executive, Presidential, Chairman’s Club? LOL


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 4, 2018)

Jimster said:


> I have traveled throughout Asia several times and much of what is said is true.  But don’t forget the last part.  That the good outweighs the bad.  I agree entirely.
> 
> To me Asia has almost a pecking order with Japan and China clearly at the top. Cambodia is clearly at the bottom.  The others fit in between.  You don’t have to be in a particular country very long to figure out where they fit.  So you can’t talk about Asia as if it were monolithic.
> 
> Personally, I enjoy the diversity and the people and the cultures.  Some people just can’t stand to get out of their comfort zone.  That’s too bad because some day circumstances may force them to.  The world is changing and there should be no expectation that the “culture” we enjoy will remain static.  If you are old enough, you should realize that.  You used to send letters- not emails.  You used to watch the three networks as your only choices-now if you don’t have 200 channels you are isolated and underprivileged.  We need to learn to adapt.



Ah, but all things have cycles! 200 channels is now outdated, people are cord cutters. The in thing. Heck, there is even a bunch of antenna users again, I am one of them. I have more than 3 network channels, I have 10! Netflix et al and ever increasing cable and satellite fees are driving people away. I end my satellite service at the end of this year, never to go back. With travel and other things to do, what is on those 10 channels is good enough for me at $0/month. I just DVR it onto mythtv. 

But back to Asia. I personally have no desire to visit Japan (unless I could have ever met Saburo Sakai). I might China, but it's low. I will be visiting Thailand next year. Cambodia, actually, interests me. India - no way. Vietnam - sure! Singapore, no way. Asia is quite a bit different than us USA folks. Going to Spain, didn't really feel too out of place. Going to Australia, Argentina, Chile, etc., same. But going to Asia, I suspect I would! But that's a good thing in my book. Actually, I would love to visit Russia some day as well, though, probably not right now. I love interacting with the locals.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

I guess it depends on where you come from. Living in the Silicon Valley/SF Bay Area, I am very comfortable with Asian people and culture. I have Asian family members and a Cuban father - although I am blonde and blue eyes - turned out like my Amercian born mother with Polish and Austrian heritage. Since I am multicultural to begin with, I am comfortable in all cultures...as long as I have access to luxury and the high end of the country. No wonder Lady is my favorite Disney character, but even she loved the Tramp. Not unlike me. Traveling as a local (like Rick Steves) does not appeal to me. I would go to Iran if someone invited me!


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Ah, but all things have cycles! 200 channels is now outdated, people are cord cutters. The in thing. Heck, there is even a bunch of antenna users again, I am one of them. I have more than 3 network channels, I have 10! Netflix et al and ever increasing cable and satellite fees are driving people away. I end my satellite service at the end of this year, never to go back. With travel and other things to do, what is on those 10 channels is good enough for me at $0/month. I just DVR it onto mythtv.
> 
> But back to Asia. I personally have no desire to visit Japan (unless I could have ever met Saburo Sakai). I might China, but it's low. I will be visiting Thailand next year. Cambodia, actually, interests me. India - no way. Vietnam - sure! Singapore, no way. Asia is quite a bit different than us USA folks. Going to Spain, didn't really feel too out of place. Going to Australia, Argentina, Chile, etc., same. But going to Asia, I suspect I would! But that's a good thing in my book. Actually, I would love to visit Russia some day as well, though, probably not right now. I love interacting with the locals.



Just out of curiosity, why not Singapore. That is my #1 destination on my next Asia trip, which will probably be in 4-8 weeks from now. I fell in love with Singapore after reading the Rich Crazy Asian series.


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## Steve Fatula (Jun 4, 2018)

No terrible reason - both the wife and I do not enjoy cities or lots and lots of people! Kind of hard to get away from Singapore and be in Singapore. That's why we have to be careful when we go to Asia, where we go, how we can avoid too many people, etc. Which is likely not easy in Asia. Being so small, that would be the absolute bottom of my list for that reason. So, you'll likely never see us in a Pulse location. Countryside, you'll find us there! So, when I said I might like to go to China, I would be pretty limited as to where! So, Spain where I was in Costa Del Sol, not too bad. In Barcelona, nope! Canary Islands, ahhhh, that was much nicer. 

I do hope you enjoy your trip there though! Tell us all about it after you get back.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

Taipei is not very crowded. I hate crowds too. There is a lot of open space and landscaping. I generally do not vacation in cities either anymore. This is a special trip for non-vacation reasons. I prefer the beaches and the mountains to cities. I lived in Manhattan when I was in my 20s. It was great then, but I only go back when I need to for non-vacation reasons, like to visit a friend or for business.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

Does this photo seem consistent with the OP’s article?


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## WinniWoman (Jun 4, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> I am pretty sure it is not the case because I have been reading this thread whenever it popped up.  I believe it is a case of over reaction by a poster who somehow read this thread as something of a personal attack.




I saw and read those words/accusations in a post (s). They were there. Maybe they were edited or deleted. I myself am not going to reread this whole thing to find them again - not worth it. The person who wrote it knows who he/she is.  Let's all just let it go.

As for me- I still have no desire to travel to Asia and I am sticking to it. LOL!


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## WinniWoman (Jun 4, 2018)

A coworker of mine just left for Bejing to visit her daughter who is studying Chinese as a second major next to finance and has been there since December. She was not looking forward to the 13 hour flight from NY, the squat toilets and the heat but is anxious to see her daughter. Will be interesting to hear about her 13 day trip there.

Her daughter has visited several other Asian countries since being there and seems to be having a great time .I forget which country it was- maybe South Korea- but her daughter said the food was fabulous.


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

*The Best Asian Food in North America? Try British Columbia*

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/...o-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

An excerpt from the article:

Since I left British Columbia 20 years ago, the world — Asia, in particular — has found its way to Richmond: Almost two-thirds of the city’s 200,000 residents are now of Asian background. (Its popularity among Asians is sometimes attributed to the auspiciousness of the Cantonese translation of its name.) On No. 5 Road, locally known as the Highway to Heaven, the golden dome of a sprawling Sikh gurdwara and the stupa of the first traditional Tibetan monastery in the Pacific Northwest rise among the blueberry stands. The newcomers are largely Hong Kongers, Taiwanese and mainland Chinese. The mainlanders have brought with them controversy: The free-spending fuerdai, or “wealthy second generation,” have been blamed for the stratospheric rise in the region’s real-estate prices.

But their presence also means Richmond has become a one-stop paradise for lovers of Asian food. These days, when I’m hankering for a plate of Hainan chicken rice, xiao long bao (soup dumplings) from Shanghai, or an oyster omelet sautéed Chiuchow style, I know I can find it in Richmond. I’ve lately found myself planning my layovers at Vancouver International — now North America’s leading hub for flights to Asia — around forays to a string of shopping centers and strip malls, which are a 15-minute ride from the airport via elevated Skytrain from the airport.


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## WinniWoman (Jun 4, 2018)

And so my coworker just posted a picture of her daughter in Bejing eating Peking Duck- the Brains! Uh....NO THANKS! LOL!


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## TravelTime (Jun 4, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> And so my coworker just posted a picture of her daughter in Bejing eating Peking Duck- the Brains! Uh....NO THANKS! LOL!



We went to the night market in Taipei and I must admit I was initially nervous. However, the food was fantastic. I had the best steamed pork buns ever. My husband had chicken skewers and ham/onion skewers and we shared some fried sweet potato buns as well as a couple Taiwan beers. The most unusual food we saw was octopus skewers but it looked tasty and well cooked/presented for someone into octopus. All the food looked tasty and I am NOT an adventurous eater. At home, I have a regular list of about 10 items I eat. When I go to my favorite restaurants in the US, I order the same things. 

This morning, we are an hour outside Taipei in another city. This is probably more representative of the local Taiwanese population. We are in a 3 star hotel today because there are no nice hotels in this area. Disappointed because I need to lift the toilet seat here myself and it is not heated (LOL it was automatic at the W) but at least there are no squat holes! 

We are having a Taiwanese breakfast and it all looks and tastes good - just different from Western breakfasts. I was expecting to see animal organs at the night market but so far, I have been disappointed to just see pretty regular Taiwanese/Chinese food. I also noticed there are many Japanese restaurants in Taipei. In the more upscale part of Taipei, you can find all kinds of food. We are trying to avoid Western food and other Asian foods and eat as much Taiwanese/Chinese food as possible since this is a rare treat. The noodle dishes here are excellent.


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## TravelTime (Jun 5, 2018)

We finally saw the squat toilets. However, they were in a fancy high end mall with designer stores. There were stalls with regular toilets and some with squat toilets. This is in a brand new mall where we paid $50 for a Cold Stone ice cream cake. This leads me to believe that squat toilets are a cultural thing that the Taiwanese want to preserve and that some people prefer, and not a sign of poverty or being backwards. It is sort of like some people in European countries use bidets. I have come to the conclusion that how people poop and pee is a cultural preference. I’ve decided electronically operated toilets with heated seats are the way to go!


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## TravelTime (Jun 11, 2018)

We stayed at the Marriott Taipei for part of the trip. Just out of curiosity, we looked up the price of the condos above the Marriott and in the towers next door that Marriott developed. They are in the $6 million to $8 million range. Then we looked up all real estate in Taipei. For $2 million in Taipei, you get a small old condo over McDonalds. Like all the major cities in Asia, the real estate prices here are unattainable for Americans. I looked up why it is so expensive here and it is not from mainland Chinese buying, as I would have assumed.  Taiwan has limits on foreigners buying real estate. The article I read said Taipei is flat and landlocked so there is nowhere to expand in the city. The majority of owners are wealthy Taiwainese who made money in mainland China and brought their money back to invest in Taipei real estate. I thought California was expensive but the real estate here is 2-4 times more expensive than the SF Bay Area and you get less for your money.


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## clifffaith (Jun 11, 2018)

All this talk of squat toilets, aside from feeling I'd just as soon stay home, is making me remember something I read as an anthropology/geography major at UCLA in the mid-70's. There was a study on the "Japanese mentality" that claimed that the constant danger of falling into the hole when Japanese children used the squat toilet shaped their minds and outlook on life!


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## WinniWoman (Jun 17, 2018)

So my coworker just got back from China. She said it was, of course, great to see her daughter. Her favorite thing was seeing the Great Wall of China. She stayed in Bejing and also visited Taipei. which she said was very metropolitan, like NYC. She had no interest in seeing Tiananmen square. but her daughter insisted on taking her to all the sights.

One thing she did say was that everything was very clean- no garbage on the streets, no homeless people walking around. She felt totally safe everywhere she went and her daughter feels the same way, even taking the subways at night. Lots of police around, just like in NYC, etc. She said the food was also very good, but limited selections- nothing like the choices we have here in the USA. She liked the dumplings. Her daughter said she can't wait to get home in August just to eat pizza and bagels, etc.

She did take a pic of the squat toilets. Very interesting- have grips on the floor on each side of the hole to grip your feet as you squat. She said these were in all the public places, but the hotels had regular toilets.

She said there were no overweight people there and everyone used umbrellas to shield their very white skin form the hot sun. She said the women wear very cutesy type clothes- but are covered especially on top.

She also said no one uses credit cards there. Everything is done on cell phones on some kind of app.he had to give her daughter the money to put in her account so they could just use the cell to pay for everything.

Prices for transportation were real cheap. $15 for a car from the airport- like an hour drive. Bicycles were everywhere- you could rent one for like 13 cents. Subways are extremely cheap and Uber was also, though a little more than the subway.

She said she wouldn't go out on her own, however, without her daughter or someone who spoke the language, just because no one spoke English (unlike in Europe where she felt if she got lost or something she could manage a bit getting help). She did say that everyone was very curteous and respectful. No low lives around yelling or acting out.

Overall she said it was great to see her daughter and it was an experience, but she wouldn't go back. She prefers France, which she has been to twice.


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## JudyH (Jun 20, 2018)

I just returned from 6 weeks in Asia and I had minimal experiences like in this article. Hong Kong was crowded but no one jay-walked and people lined up quietly to wait and board the bus. Food in Vietnam was wonderful. All types of meals were available. Cambodia was extremely poor and yes there was trash but when there is minimal govt service trash is a low priority. Thailand, the parts I visited was ok, but not because of things in the article. Singapore was pristine compared to the other countries. The very worse crowds were thousands of rude pushy Chinese tourists but I see them everywhere now, including all our national parks.

Still there’s nothing like visiting foreign countries to make you appreciate America where you have the freedom to say anything you want.


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