# Marriott DC Trust points on ebay



## jont (Dec 9, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260912861381?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Is this the first time trust points are for sale on ebay?
Will be interesting to see how this auction goes.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Dec 9, 2011)

jont said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260912861381?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> 
> Is this the first time trust points are for sale on ebay?
> Will be interesting to see how this auction goes.








No, not the first time.

If I were to guess, these will sell for $6,000 or higher.

Anyone else out there in TUGland want to guess what the final bid price will be?





.


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## jimf41 (Dec 9, 2011)

I'll guess $2000. I bid $100 and I'm out of the game already.


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## m61376 (Dec 9, 2011)

The question of course is what will the new owner be able to do with them, to warrant the annual MF


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## larue (Dec 9, 2011)

It has been some time since I have looked at this, but doesn't Marriott reserve the right to charge a pretty high transfer fee for these?  Does anyone know how much Marriott is charging to transfer points to a new purchaser and what limits of use Marriott is placing on a secondary purchaser?


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## McFail (Dec 9, 2011)

If you read lower in the auction it lists a transfer fee of $1320. Almost a dollar a point. 

This could be interesting to watch. My guess is about 4k for this one. A totally wild guess that is.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

Nope, not the first time, there have been a few threads where we watched specific eBay auctions for Trust Points.  But it doesn't appear the buyers were TUGgers so we weren't able to find out if Marriott ROFR'd the auction price, or if the new owners were eventually able to get straight answers from the seller or Marriott about the associated costs and/or actual allowed usage of resale Trust Points.

On the one hand I'd love for a TUGger to "win" one of these auctions so that we could learn the transfer process/costs and find out how strictly the stipulations in the governing docs are applied as far as usage.  But on the other, after all the time we've spent dissecting the docs and coming to the conclusion that Marriott didn't do anything to make a resale of Trust Points an attractive ownership option, I'd hate to see a TUGger go though with the sale only to end up saddled with an albatross that offers little to no usage options, high MF's and a bleak resale outlook.  This particular auction is for 1,500 Points, annual MF's are currently $615.

{eta}  It looks like this auction could be a re-listing of the one we watched in this thread - same seller, same number of Points, similar set-up, etc.  Wonder if the seller will say if it's a re-listing and if so, what happened to make the first auction fall through?


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## GregT (Dec 9, 2011)

jimf41 said:


> I'll guess $2000. I bid $100 and I'm out of the game already.



I'll go with a $5,000 closing price.  My $500 bid didn't last long.


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## GregT (Dec 9, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> On the one hand I'd love for a TUGger to "win" one of these auctions so that we could learn the transfer process/costs and find out how strictly the stipulations in the governing docs are applied as far as usage.  But on the other, after all the time we've spent dissecting the docs and coming to the conclusion that Marriott didn't do anything to make a resale of Trust Points an attractive ownership option, I'd hate to see a TUGger go though with the sale only to end up saddled with an albatross that offers little to no usage options, high MF's and a bleak resale oulook.  This particular auction is for 1,500 Points, annual MF's are currently $615.



I still believe (and I could be mistaken) that these points will have usefulness.  I corresponded with the broker periodically on the other auction and he told me that Marriott had communicated to them that the full rights would be transferred to his resale buyer.  I just emailed him now (hadn't heard anything since late October when they were still in closing) to see if it was finalized, and will let you know.

I think the bigger issue with this is that if points can be rented for $0.50 - $0.70 per point, why buy them?

Best,

Greg


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

GregT said:


> I still believe (and I could be mistaken) that these points will have usefulness.  I corresponded with the broker periodically on the other auction and he told me that Marriott had communicated to them that the full rights would be transferred to his resale buyer.  I just emailed him now (hadn't heard anything since late October when they were still in closing) to see if it was finalized, and will let you know.
> 
> I think the bigger issue with this is that if points can be rented for $0.50 - $0.70 per point, why buy them?
> 
> ...



But that's an age-old timeshare question, isn't it, whether you should buy into the systems or rent from an owner without being burdened by the ownership costs and issues?

I agree, Greg, that even distress Points must have some measure of usage value. But I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig who has to find out the hard way just how much, or more importantly how little, value they actually have.


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## RBERR1 (Dec 9, 2011)

GregT said:


> I still believe (and I could be mistaken) that these points will have usefulness.  I corresponded with the broker periodically on the other auction and he told me that Marriott had communicated to them that the full rights would be transferred to his resale buyer.  I just emailed him now (hadn't heard anything since late October when they were still in closing) to see if it was finalized, and will let you know.
> 
> I think the bigger issue with this is that if points can be rented for $0.50 - $0.70 per point, why buy them?
> 
> ...



I agree with Greg's last point. Let's say maintenance is 40 cents and you can rent for 50 cents.  For you to pay $1 per pt (including the transfer fee and closing cost) would mean you would need 10 years of renting to offset the cost of purchase.

In this case,between the transfer fee and the closing costs you are paying around $1.20 per pt (Approx $1800 /1500 pts).  Let's say the auction closes at $1800 which is another $1.20 per pt. Assuming a 50 cent per pt rental rate, it would take 24 years of renting every year before you broke even on your purchase.


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## larue (Dec 9, 2011)

RBERR1 said:


> I agree with Greg's last point. Let's say maintenance is 40 cents and you can rent for 50 cents.  For you to pay $1 per pt (including the transfer fee and closing cost) would mean you would need 10 years of renting to offset the cost of purchase.
> 
> In this case,between the transfer fee and the closing costs you are paying around $1.20 per pt (Approx $1800 /1500 pts).  Let's say the auction closes at $1800 which is another $1.20 per pt. Assuming a 50 cent per pt rental rate, it would take 24 years of renting every year before you broke even on your purchase.



One reason why I might consider a second market purchase is that it would bring me from premiere to premiere plus in Marriott (unless they restrict combining secondary trust and legacy points to come up with the premiere plus level).  I might be willing to consider something like that if I could work out all the other details and know that I could use the points without additional restrictions.  I seem to recall speculation regarding a 60 day use limit for secondary market points.  Is that applicable here?


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## larue (Dec 9, 2011)

Northern Willy said:


> If you read lower in the auction it lists a transfer fee of $1320. Almost a dollar a point.
> 
> This could be interesting to watch. My guess is about 4k for this one. A totally wild guess that is.



I was wondering if that was a Marriott fee or closing costs.  I see your point and I think you are right but the auction just specifies that as a generic transfer fee, not necessarily as the Marriott transfer fee.  Again, I am going back to much earlier posts but I seem to recall that the Marriott transfer fee was potentially higher than this.


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## slum808 (Dec 9, 2011)

I think a sale like this may be favorable for someone like me who missed the boat. A small resale like this would get me in the system, then I could tent additional points from an owner. Right now there's no way for me to join the club without buying direct.


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## RBERR1 (Dec 9, 2011)

larue said:


> One reason why I might consider a second market purchase is that it would bring me from premiere to premiere plus in Marriott (unless they restrict combining secondary trust and legacy points to come up with the premiere plus level).  I might be willing to consider something like that if I could work out all the other details and know that I could use the points without additional restrictions.  I seem to recall speculation regarding a 60 day use limit for secondary market points.  Is that applicable here?




I am premier and so far I have found when I was looking to make reservations that I could not do much at the 13 month mark I have not been able to do much because nothing has been moved to the exchange company and so for now I have found status has not added any real value.


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## jont (Dec 9, 2011)

slum808 said:


> I think a sale like this may be favorable for someone like me who missed the boat. A small resale like this would get me in the system, then I could tent additional points from an owner. Right now there's no way for me to join the club without buying direct.



I think that the lower point package owners will help spur interest in the points rental market as slum808 indicates.Im not sure how many new Trust point owners bought 4000-5000 point packages.Hopefully a lot of these 1500-2000 point owners will be looking to rent points to book prime weeks.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

slum808 said:


> I think a sale like this may be favorable for someone like me who missed the boat. A small resale like this would get me in the system, then I could tent additional points from an owner. Right now there's no way for me to join the club without buying direct.



Good point  - that's a perspective that hasn't occurred to me.



RBERR1 said:


> I am premier and so far I have found when I was looking to make reservations that I could not do much at the 13 month mark I have not been able to do much because nothing has been moved to the exchange company and so for now I have found status has not added any real value.



Agree, the DC hasn't been up and running long enough for Marriott to have gained a foothold on exactly what inventory should be available soonest for the Premier Plus window.  But the latest Insider had an interesting perk for marriott.com rentals - 25% off rack rates for Premier and 35% off for Premier Plus owners, with an additional 10% off if you use the Marriott VISA card to pay for the stay.  That's not too shabby a perk if you regularly book marriott.com stays, which we do to supplement our timeshare stays or as separate 1- or 2-night getaways.


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## larue (Dec 9, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Good point  - that's a perspective that hasn't occurred to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree, the DC hasn't been up and running long enough for Marriott to have gained a foothold on exactly what inventory should be available soonest for the Premier Plus window.  But the latest Insider had an interesting perk for marriott.com rentals - 25% off rack rates for Premier and 35% off for Premier Plus owners, with an additional 10% off if you use the Marriott VISA card to pay for the stay.  That's not too shabby a perk if you regularly book marriott.com stays, which we do to supplement our timeshare stays or as separate 1- or 2-night getaways.



Interesting deal there is that I called MVC and even though I am Premiere, they gave me the 40% off rate for NCV over Presidents weekend.  I did not realize that was limited to Premiere Plus members but the MVC rep said that he was using a code of Y83 and that all it requires is use of your Visa and that ownership status is included in your Marriott Rewards Account number.  I suppose I should call back and make sure they are not going to up my rate on arrival!


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## m61376 (Dec 9, 2011)

Sue- wasn't it 30% + 10% for Premiere owners and 35%+10% for Premiere Plus? I may be remembering wrong though.

I do agree with Greg- I'm guessing that ultimately rights will transfer, because otherwise Marriott will be selling something that has virtually zero resale value (and today's buyers are more savvy than buyers were even 5 years ago, since it is so easy to find out information on the web); like Sue, though, I'm reticent to be the guinea pig, because not only are we talking about the purchase cost, I don't want to be saddled with annual MF's for something that turns out to be a mistake to purchase in the first place.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 9, 2011)

larue said:


> Interesting deal there is that I called MVC and even though I am Premiere, they gave me the 40% off rate for NCV over Presidents weekend.  I did not realize that was limited to Premiere Plus members but the MVC rep said that he was using a code of *Y83* and that all it requires is use of your Visa and that ownership status is included in your Marriott Rewards Account number.  I suppose I should call back and make sure they are not going to up my rate on arrival!



Great little nugget, here are the rate rules on that Y83 code looked up online:



> Rate Rules Premier Visa Owner Discount, 40 percent off Regular rate, must pay with Marriott Visa, see Rate Rules
> 
> Additional Information
> MARRIOTT VACATION CLUB DESTINATIONS PROGRAM
> ...



Now if we can just get hold of the other codes and we won't have to call VOAs to book these.

I wonder if having the Premier Visa gives you an extra 5% over the Signature Visa?


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

larue said:


> Interesting deal there is that I called MVC and even though I am Premiere, they gave me the 40% off rate for NCV over Presidents weekend.  I did not realize that was limited to Premiere Plus members but the MVC rep said that he was using a code of Y83 and that all it requires is use of your Visa and that ownership status is included in your Marriott Rewards Account number.  I suppose I should call back and make sure they are not going to up my rate on arrival!



Oh I'm sorry, you have the rates correct.  Here's the thread where we talked about the new DC/VISA rates - it's 25% off for Members, 30% off for Premier Members and 35% off for Premier Plus, with an additional 10% off across the board if you use your Marriott VISA.

When we booked we were told to make sure that we take our Membership and VISA cards with us just in case the front desk needs to verify anything at check-in.  Membership cards are used so infrequently that it wouldn't be surprising if owners don't have one handy (or even know they exist.)  If I didn't have one I guess I'd make sure that I had at least the number with me and ask the front desk to contact Owner Services for verification.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Great little nugget, here are the rate rules on that Y83 code looked up online:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm.  I didn't think to ask for the code, although it only took the rep a little bit of time to find it after I read the Insider blurb to her.  Next time I'll ask so you can add it to the list.

As far as the different VISA's, I'd guess there's no variance because the Insider specified only 10%.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 9, 2011)

Looks like Y85 is Premier 30% off, no extra for Visa



> Rate Rules Premier Points Discount, 30 percent off Regular rate
> 
> Additional Information
> MARRIOTT VACATION CLUB DESTINATIONS PROGRAM
> ...


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## dioxide45 (Dec 9, 2011)

Since the discount under MOD is the same as a "Standard Member", the discount code is the MOD code, there is no separate codes. If someone who is Premier Plus wants to do an online chat with a my-vacationclub.com rep, you may be able to get the corporate codes for Premier Plus.


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## GregT (Dec 10, 2011)

All,

The broker has confirmed for me that this is the same auction as was conducted previously, and that the buyer backed out.  I don't have any confirmation that Marriott was going to permit the transaction (or the full utility of the points).

Best,

Greg


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## sparty (Dec 10, 2011)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> The broker has confirmed for me that this is the same auction as was conducted previously, and that the buyer backed out.  I don't have any confirmation that Marriott was going to permit the transaction (or the full utility of the points).
> 
> ...



Why did he back out? Points did not have usefulness?


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## BocaBoy (Dec 10, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> ....the latest Insider had an interesting perk for marriott.com rentals - 25% off rack rates for Premier and 35% off for Premier Plus owners, with an additional 10% off if you use the Marriott VISA card to pay for the stay.



When was this latest Insider issue published?  About three months ago I finally was able to get myself added to the Insider distribution list and I got a couple of issues.  It seems like a long time since I have received one, however, and I do not recall this item in the last one I got.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 10, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> When was this latest Insider issue published?  About three months ago I finally was able to get myself added to the Insider distribution list and I got a couple of issues.  It seems like a long time since I have received one, however, and I do not recall this item in the last one I got.



We received our last Insiders Newsletter on November 16th. So we should be receiving the December one shortly.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 10, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> When was this latest Insider issue published?  About three months ago I finally was able to get myself added to the Insider distribution list and I got a couple of issues.  It seems like a long time since I have received one, however, and I do not recall this item in the last one I got.





dioxide45 said:


> We received our last Insiders Newsletter on November 16th. So we should be receiving the December one shortly.



Us too, the latest edition was 11/16/11;   here's the web version for Premier Plus owners.  The same "Benefits At A Glance" chart that we've talked about in this thread is in this Insider version, too, if you follow the link for "Guide To Your Ownership Benfits."  Looks like Marriott embedded it differently in this issue because it links easily.   

Look for the Insider emails anytime after the 11th of the month or just watch TUG - one of us usually posts the day they're issued.  BocaBoy, I hope your troubles with getting these are finally over!


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## BocaBoy (Dec 14, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Looks like Y85 is Premier 30% off, no extra for Visa



P34 is the code for Premier Plus 35% off without using the MR Visa.
P33 is the code for Premier Plus 45% off using the MR Visa.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 14, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> P34 is the code for Premier Plus 35% off without using the MR Visa.
> P33 is the code for Premier Plus 45% off using the MR Visa.



Thanks, I had already posted the complete list in this post in another thread.


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## jimf41 (Dec 16, 2011)

Sold. $2705 takes it. I wonder if we'll find out if it goes through or if they are actually usable.


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## thinze3 (Dec 16, 2011)

jimf41 said:


> Sold. $2705 takes it. I wonder if we'll find out if it goes through or if they are actually usable.



I bid early at $1500, but it was no longer good after a couple of days.


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## GregT (Dec 16, 2011)

The broker told me that it cleared ROFR with Marriott at the previous $3,750 and that Marriott had communicated that full rights transfer.

Obviously, we must all take this with a grain of salt.

Best,

Greg


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## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2011)

GregT said:


> The broker told me that it cleared ROFR with Marriott at the previous $3,750 and that Marriott had communicated that full rights transfer.
> 
> Obviously, we must all take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...



I'm curious about Marriott's statement to the broker.  It could literally mean that the rights as written in the docs will transfer, which would mean severely limited 60-day Trust Only usage.  Or it could mean theoretically that Marriott intends to bestow actual full usage rights, because the docs give them some leeway to apply certain terms and conditions.

Like I said before, I hope we get a chance to eventually learn how all this shakes out, but not at the expense of a TUGger owning an albatross.  I do understand the points folks have made here in favor of an external Points resale, really, but I'm surprised that such a thing is being entertained by TUGgers who are normally so financially-averse to high-risk timeshares.  I can't think of another timeshare package which has the potential to offer fewer usage options than a Marriott DC Points external resale.


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## thinze3 (Dec 16, 2011)

For me it was as simple as having someone send me convincing information in writing from Marriott about this particular points package before following through with the purchase ($3500 or so total w/ a $1500 bid).

If the paperwork didn't come forward neither would my payment.  I was not about to spend that much time and effort prior to bidding.


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