# Looking to upgrade points--How to choose from the Marketplace?!



## velvetblue88 (Aug 5, 2017)

We purchased our Wyndham timeshare points 3/2015 in Vegas and haven't ever booked the "home resort". We have, however, used points for Wyndham, Worldmark, and RCI properties all over the US. If we don't care about a home resort, how do we choose between all the great ads on the marketplace?


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## Jan M. (Aug 5, 2017)

Look for something at a resort with low maintenance fees that gives you the most points for the least amount of money. There is a sticky at the top of the Wyndham page that lists the maintenance fees for most of the resorts.

It is important to understand what a reservation will cost you depending on your maintenance fees. I just looked at some listings on eBay to find some examples to use to give you an idea about how much maintenance fees matter. I included two CWA, Club Wyndham Access, listings because another thing to note is that the lower point deeds/contracts pay higher per point maintenance fees.

Say you want to go to Orlando next March and stay in a two bedroom deluxe unit which will be 224,000 points.
CWA                        105,000 points with mf's of $6.97. The Bonnet Creek 224,000 point reservation will cost you  $1561.28
CWA                        427,000 points with mf's of $6.18                               costs you $1384.32                                  
Oceanside Pier          436,000 points with mf's of $5.23                                     costs you $1171.52
Panama City Beach   582,000 points with mf's of $4.66                            costs you $1043.84

There are a lot of small point deeds that you can pick up for very little to literally nothing. Because of that you may be tempted to overlook the fact that some of them are at resorts with higher maintenance fees. After several years you may start looking at those deeds with higher maintenance fees and want to get rid of them. You end up just like the person you bought them from, paying the closing costs to get rid of them. So keep in mind that you may find that you are better off to pay a little more up front to get deeds with lower maintenance fees. I also think you are better off to look for deeds that have over 200k points for several reasons besides the lower program fee rate. If you want to book something with your ARP, advance reservation priority, will you have enough points in that deed to be able to book what you want. If the time comes you want to sell your deeds you will find it easier to find a buyer with the larger point deeds and stand a better chance of selling them for something vs giving them away.


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## Braindead (Aug 5, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Look for something at a resort with low maintenance fees that gives you the most points for the least amount of money. There is a sticky at the top of the Wyndham page that lists the maintenance fees for most of the resorts.
> 
> It is important to understand what a reservation will cost you depending on your maintenance fees. I just looked at some listings on eBay to find some examples to use to give you an idea about how much maintenance fees matter. I included two CWA, Club Wyndham Access, listings because another thing to note is that the lower point deeds/contracts pay higher per point maintenance fees.
> 
> ...


Very well explained! I have always thought potential buyers get hung up on initial cost way to much.
The more expensive contract to buy may be the cheaper total cost contract to buy in less than 5 years with MFs added in.

Good point on buying larger contracts also. It cost the same to transfer a small or big contract. Almost all 154,000 points and under the owner would be better off to give the contract back through Ovation stopping MFs within a month or two. If you bought from Wyndham and can get 3 years of points through Ovation that is almost always better than selling if you will use the points. A low $5 MF contract is worth $15 per thousand for the three years of points through Ovation. You will hardly ever see a contract sell for $15 per thousand on eBay


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## velvetblue88 (Aug 7, 2017)

Thanks, Jan! I didn't notice the MF sticky. I'll take a look at that and keep my eyes peeled. 
Braindead, I was actually talking to my husband about total cost, as well, since we have an annual contract, and some people are selling bi-annual contracts with no points for 2 years. If someone has low MFs, but we don't get any points for 2 years, and then only get them every other year, it's really double the maintenance to use the points. It's a lot of $-churning and calculations... But this is all very helpful!


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## dagger1 (Aug 7, 2017)

The only "kicker" mentioned to me about the above advice was given to me a year ago, but I can't remember who.  MF's can change, and "Special Assessments" can change the best laid plans....
But I'm not sure how often these things happen...


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## velvetblue88 (Aug 7, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> The only "kicker" mentioned to me about the above advice was given to me a year ago, but I can't remember who.  MF's can change, and "Special Assessments" can change the best laid plans....
> But I'm not sure how often these things happen...


Makes sense. We've had our CWA points for 2.5 years, and they just went up 8%. I've heard that the increases don't happen often, but that they *do* happen. Luckily we have few enough points that it doesn't hurt too badly... Thanks for the additional tip!


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## Jan M. (Aug 7, 2017)

velvetblue88 said:


> Makes sense. We've had our CWA points for 2.5 years, and they just went up 8%. I've heard that the increases don't happen often, but that they *do* happen. Luckily we have few enough points that it doesn't hurt too badly... Thanks for the additional tip!



If you have CWA points then you don't have a home resort like your initial post stated. Typically CWA has higher maintenance fees so I prefer to own at resorts that have lower maintenance fees. That was the reason I demonstrated what a reservation costs for CWA vs being deeded at a resort with lower maintenance fees. Typically you do see an increase in maintenance fees from year to year. However an 8% increase for just one year is an awfully big increase. For example our mf's went up 4% from 2014-2015, 3.86% from 2015-2016 and 3.5% from 2016-2017.

If all of our points were at the mf rate of the listing I used in my example, CWA 427,000 points with mf's of $6.18, then we would be paying $8305.92 instead of the $6,739.62 we pay, so $1,566.30 more just for one year. Multiply that by just 10 years and I've saved $15,663.00. We've owned a lot longer than that so I've saved enough to cover a special assessment should one occur. Yes special assessments can happen but not often and they are used as a scare tactic by the sales people to push CWA. Knock on wood we've owned for 16+ years and have never been hit with a special assessment. Typically the resorts that get hit with special assessments tend to fall into three categories from what I've seen. 1. The resorts that hurricanes have hit. 2. The resorts that Wyndham allowed to get run down. I say Wyndham allowed because as been posted on other threads Wyndham controls the boards at many resorts and they provide the management at almost all of the resorts. 3. Resorts with extremely high usage. The owners at those resorts can thank Extra Holidays, the mega renters and point managers for that.


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## paxsarah (Aug 8, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Typically* CWA has higher maintenance fees* so I prefer to own at resorts that have lower maintenance fees.



I think this misrepresents CWA in that it has pretty much average maintenance fees. It is higher than the low-MF resorts you own, but close to average in terms of the overall breadth of Wyndham properties. Kind of like owning an index fund instead of individual stocks.


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## puppymommo (Aug 8, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> The only "kicker" mentioned to me about the above advice was given to me a year ago, but I can't remember who.  MF's can change, and "Special Assessments" can change the best laid plans....
> But I'm not sure how often these things happen...



MFs do tend to increase over time. That is to be expected. But as for special assessments, I can only speak from my own experience. I have been a Wyndham owner for almost 20 years and have never had a special assessment.


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## Railman83 (Aug 8, 2017)

There's someone selling a bunch of National Harbor and PCB points on TUG.   Pretty decent pricing on some of the lowest mfs on system.   I'd buy if I wasn't full up.


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## chapjim (Aug 8, 2017)

Railman83 said:


> There's someone selling a bunch of National Harbor and PCB points on TUG.   Pretty decent pricing on some of the lowest mfs on system.   I'd buy if I wasn't full up.



Ew!  $12,000 for 733K points or $47,000 for 700K points doesn't sound too attactive to me.  That's at National Harbor.

Maybe somebody snapped up the decent priced contracts.


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## Braindead (Aug 8, 2017)

chapjim said:


> Ew!  $12,000 for 733K points or $47,000 for 700K points doesn't sound too attactive to me.  That's at National Harbor.
> 
> Maybe somebody snapped up the decent priced contracts.


Wow! Not quite what the ad says about $7.50 per thousand


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## chapjim (Aug 8, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Wow! Not quite what the ad says about $7.50 per thousand



I think that was at Panama City Beach -- listing was for 10 million points, apparently multiple contracts.


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

chapjim said:


> I think that was at Panama City Beach -- listing was for 10 million points, apparently multiple contracts.


The panama city beach contracts come to around 7.50 per thousand including all closing costs. Sounds like a very fair price to me compared to what I've been seeing offered. I have seen a couple better deals on ebay but rarely see resorts with the low fees there. Usually the best ebay deals have maintenance fees of over 6/1000 and a lot more or are biannual. Does 259k for 2000 with all closing sound like a good deal??


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## Braindead (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> The panama city beach contracts come to around 7.50 per thousand including all closing costs. Sounds like a very fair price to me compared to what I've been seeing offered. I have seen a couple better deals on ebay but rarely see resorts with the low fees there. Usually the best ebay deals have maintenance fees of over 6/1000 and a lot more or are biannual. Does 259k for 2000 with all closing sound like a good deal??


A 582,000 Panama City Beach annual contract sold on eBay for $2,550.00 including all transfer cost two days ago. That's less than $5.00 per thousand. So I don't get your comment on eBay. Ebay has it all the good and bad.

Your deal is just ok. If your happy with your purchase that's all that matters !!


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Braindead said:


> A 582,000 Panama City Beach annual contract sold on eBay for $2,550.00 including all transfer cost two days ago. That's less than $5.00 per thousand. So I don't get your comment on eBay. Ebay has it all the good and bad.
> 
> Your deal is just ok. If your happy with your purchase that's all that matters !!




I did see that sale on ebay. Ebay is a great place to compare prices from. There are a couple other good deals too. What I was getting at was that most of the eBay sales for next to nothing were on resorts with high maintenance fees.


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Braindead said:


> A 582,000 Panama City Beach annual contract sold on eBay for $2,550.00 including all transfer cost two days ago. That's less than $5.00 per thousand. So I don't get your comment on eBay. Ebay has it all the good and bad.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion!  And I was asking if the deal was good or not as I am trying to learn. I thought the ebay deal was great except for us it would be a few too may points to be able to affordably commit to paying maintenance fees on.
> 
> Your deal is just ok. If your happy with your purchase that's all that matters !!


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## Jan M. (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> I did see that sale on ebay. Ebay is a great place to compare prices from. There are a couple other good deals too. What I was getting at was that most of the eBay sales for next to nothing were on resorts with high maintenance fees.



Yes eBay is a great place to compare. Some are good to great deals and sometimes you get what you pay for. I always recommend putting the ones that catch your eye on your watch list and see how the bidding goes. Sometimes there are listings that don't get a lot of action and a larger point (over say 250k points), low maintenance fee listing will end with an amazing price. If you don't add the good ones to your watch list and keep an eye on the bidding you can miss some incredible deals. Ask me how I know! We don't really need any more points but I like to keep up with things and my husband has heard me say more than once that it is very fortunate I wasn't on eBay when some of those auctions ended or we would be owning more points than we do.


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## Braindead (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> I did see that sale on ebay. Ebay is a great place to compare prices from. There are a couple other good deals too. What I was getting at was that most of the eBay sales for next to nothing were on resorts with high maintenance fees.


That's true everywhere. High MFs contracts are given away here on Tug in the bargain deals all the time


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Yes eBay is a great place to compare. Some are good to great deals and sometimes you get what you pay for. I always recommend putting the ones that catch your eye on your watch list and see how the bidding goes. Sometimes there are listings that don't get a lot of action and a larger point (over say 250k points), low maintenance fee listing will end with an amazing price. If you don't add the good ones to your watch list and keep an eye on the bidding you can miss some incredible deals. Ask me how I know! We don't really need any more points but I like to keep up with things and my husband has heard me say more than once that it is very fortunate I wasn't on eBay when some of those auctions ended or we would be owning more points than we do.




So... in your opinion would this be an ok deal or should we be waiting for something better?. Only considering a purchase because I think rentals will not be as available for a deal after new rules. We really need to keep maintenance fees as low as possible to make it worth it as it will be our only contract with no vip perks.


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## Jan M. (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> So... in your opinion would this be an ok deal or should we be waiting for something better?. Only considering a purchase because I think rentals will not be as available for a deal after new rules. We really need to keep maintenance fees as low as possible to make it worth it as it will be our only contract with no vip perks.



$2k out the door for 259k points at Panama City Beach? Will 259k points get you the vacation or vacations at the locations you want? Virtually every single one of us has ended up buying more points because we found we wanted/needed them. I hesitate to call it a mistake because as rookies we just didn't understand what the points we bought would actually get us and how much we would finding ourselves using the resorts. 

How much vacation time do you have year? Are there any resorts within say a 6 hour drive from you that you could see yourself taking a long weekend there? Is there a particular area that you see yourself going to every year? Are you able to look at the point charts so see how many points you will need to go where you want when you want? 

We started out going for a week long stay at Cypress Palms in Orlando in January/February. The next year we added more points and spent a week Sea Watch in Myrtle Beach in July/August and a week at Sea Gardens in Pompano Beach in the winter. The following couple of years we added more points and stayed at Ocean Boulevard in Myrtle Beach in late May or September, back to Sea Gardens in the winter, Grand Desert in Las Vegas in March and a four day weekend at Old Town Alexandria in DC. We were also staying longer than just 7 nights to take advantage of the lowest prices on the flights when we flew to Florida and Las Vegas. 

As Braindead said the deal is just ok. The larger 582,000 point listing that sold for $2550 was a far better deal but you said the maintenance fees would be too much for you. Do you have any family members who would want to share the expense, purchase price and maintenance fees, and points with you? If you were to buy a larger point listing do you have any family members, friends, coworkers who would buy a stay or two a year from you to help you offset your maintenance fees on the larger number of points.


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> $2k out the door for 259k points at Panama City Beach? Will 259k points get you the vacation or vacations at the locations you want? Virtually every single one of us has ended up buying more points because we found we wanted/needed them. I hesitate to call it a mistake because as rookies we just didn't understand what the points we bought would actually get us and how much we would finding ourselves using the resorts.
> 
> How much vacation time do you have year? Are there any resorts within say a 6 hour drive from you that you could see yourself taking a long weekend there? Is there a particular area that you see yourself going to every year? Are you able to look at the point charts so see how many points you will need to go where you want when you want?
> 
> ...



I get 6 weeks a year 
Mostly plan to go to oceanwalk daytona a week or two, maybe Vegas with friends once or twice. We are 45 minutes from smugglers notch and 6 to 7 hours from Atlantic City. 259 would get us a 1 bedroom for a couple weeks. Was planning on trying to rent locally to friends if we don't use all and still rent from platinum members if we need more. Just didn't know if low maintenance contracts ce up often enough to pass on this deal and wait. I am buying with the expectations that if we decide to get rid of it in several years we might be giving it away and paying some or all of transfer costs


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## Jan M. (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> I get 6 weeks a year
> Mostly plan to go to oceanwalk daytona a week or two, maybe Vegas with friends once or twice. We are 45 minutes from smugglers notch and 6 to 7 hours from Atlantic City. 259 would get us a 1 bedroom for a couple weeks. Was planning on trying to rent locally to friends if we don't use all and still rent from platinum members if we need more. Just didn't know if low maintenance contracts ce up often enough to pass on this deal and wait. I am buying with the expectations that if we decide to get rid of it in several years we might be giving it away and paying some or all of transfer costs



I think you will want and use more than 259k points! You might be better off with something in the mid-higher 300k to low-mid 400k range. If you decided to go ahead with this purchase keep that in mind.

Sometime this past year it was discussed on another thread the best time of year to buy. I hope someone else can remember but I'm thinking it was the Fall. I have no idea about what to expect with the resale market but I do know the list of what is available on eBay is constantly changing.

I forgot to ask if you have children and how old they are. Do you typically book a one or two bedroom unit or do you need the three bedroom units sometimes? As soon as our son turned 21 and was able to check in on his own he started using the timeshares.


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> I think you will want and use more than 259k points! You might be better off with something in the mid-higher 300k to low-mid 400k range.
> 
> I forgot to ask if you have children and how old they are. Do you typically book a one or two bedroom unit or do you need the three bedroom units sometimes? As soon as our son turned 21 and was able to check in on his own he started using the timeshares.




Have children and grandchildren 
This winter we got a 3 bedroom and they all came with us. Renting through a Platinum owner we were able to get 6 nights for just over 800. Planning on mostly getting 1 bedroom units and continuing to rent when we need anything larger because it seems less expensive to rent.


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## Jan M. (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> Have children and grandchildren
> This winter we got a 3 bedroom and they all came with us. Renting through a Platinum owner we were able to get 6 nights for just over 800. Planning on mostly getting 1 bedroom units and continuing to rent when we need anything larger because it seems less expensive to rent.



With the new website and book/cancel/rebook pretty much eliminated there is likely to be a steep increase in the rental prices for those larger units.


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> With the new website and book/cancel/rebook pretty much eliminated there is likely to be a steep increase in the rental prices for those larger units.



You are right about that. We actually didn't book until 5 weeks before we went so not sure how many points he used, but am relatively certain he must have scored upgrades to give us those prices. It actually ended up being 3 reservations in all to book those nights


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## Braindead (Aug 9, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> I get 6 weeks a year
> Mostly plan to go to oceanwalk daytona a week or two, maybe Vegas with friends once or twice. We are 45 minutes from smugglers notch and 6 to 7 hours from Atlantic City. 259 would get us a 1 bedroom for a couple weeks. Was planning on trying to rent locally to friends if we don't use all and still rent from platinum members if we need more. Just didn't know if low maintenance contracts ce up often enough to pass on this deal and wait. I am buying with the expectations that if we decide to get rid of it in several years we might be giving it away and paying some or all of transfer costs


If you decide not to buy the contract discussed. You don't sound like your buying PCB for ARP purposes.
Another resort for you to think about buying at is Grand Desert it has low MFs and sometimes sells very reasonably


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## Dave Landry (Aug 9, 2017)

Braindead said:


> If you decide not to buy the contract discussed. You don't sound like your buying PCB for ARP purposes.
> Another resort for you to think about buying at is Grand Desert it has low MFs and sometimes sells very reasonably




Only buying because maintenance fees are 4.66/1000. Will probably never stay there. Thank you for your advice and time.


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## Braindead (Aug 10, 2017)

Dave Landry said:


> Only buying because maintenance fees are 4.66/1000. Will probably never stay there. Thank you for your advice and time.


I want to be clear that there was nothing wrong with the contract you were thinking of buying. If it has the amount of points you want to start with that's a big plus. It was at a fair price but if your patient you might save a few hundred bucks. I have posted initial cost is only paid ounce.
You should buy the contract if your won't be upset if you see a contract in a month or two that would've saved you a few hundred bucks.
Didn't want you to feel that we gave you bad advice and you over payed.

One thing owners post here that have bought a lot of resales is they don't overpay. If you get outbid don't worry about it because before long another similar contract will come along. That's the best advice I can give you also. Take your time don't feel rushed and don't over buy.
Bnoble made an excellent post on not getting carried away buying to many points on another thread


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