# Redweek just entered the exchange company game



## CatLovers (Jun 11, 2007)

I just received this e-mail from Redweek:

Dear xx, 

We have an exchange opportunity for you that affects your current exchange posting on RedWeek.com. 

A New Way to Exchange on RedWeek.com 
Up until now, exchange postings on RedWeek.com have been what is called "direct exchange" - requiring that you post what you have, and hope to find an owner willing to trade with you directly. 

Unfortunately, as you may have noticed, this program has had limitations. We believe this is primarily due to the difficulty of finding an owner who has exactly what you want, and who wants exactly what you have. 

So, we have been working hard on a solution, and are excited to announce our new and improved full-service exchange company, RedWeek Exchange. Here are some highlights of the new program: 

24/7 online exchanges 
Find your exchange before you deposit 
Keep the change or pay the difference 
Our points system lets you trade up or down easily 
No hidden weeks 
Low membership prices 
Low exchange fees - one price for any destination 
No fees for guest certificates 

What Can You Exchange For? 
To find out what you can exchange your week for, just submit a free, no-obligation valuation request. You tell us what week you have, and we'll send you an offer for RedWeek Exchange Points. If you decide to deposit your week, you'll get those points to use toward an exchange posted on RedWeek.com. 

You can browse before you commit, so you know what's available before you deposit. 

Please let us know if you have any questions at all about this new program, or suggestions for how we could improve it. 

Enjoy! 

The RedWeek Exchange Team 

*However, when I go to browse exchange availability, I can't seem to find anything.  I suspect it's because no one has deposited yet.  Most people will want to browse before they deposit.  Wonder how they're going to get past this initial non-inventory issue?*


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## ouaifer (Jun 11, 2007)

Actually, I think there is a glitch in their system.

That particular link doesn't work...as it goes back to their _Home Exchange Info page_.  But there are a couple of ways to get there.

Click on the link in the e-mail...then on the left side, where it indicates, _*Find Your Exchange!*_... by Location...fill in a place...and then click on Search.  They do have plenty in Australia, a couple in England, tons in the Canary Islands.  I didn't search everything, just a couple of places.  But, this worked for me.

It yields their same detailed listings as before...this time under the green exchanges area, there is a Points quantity for that resort.  Once you've inquired about the value of your resort/week, they can make an exchange just like the others.  

Nonsense as far as I'm concerned, though.


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## Jennie (Jun 11, 2007)

Don't worry. Today is the first day of this new program. They have been "swamped" with inquiries which will take 24-48 hours to act upon. Owners can fill out a very brief form listing the details about their week. Within 24 hours they will receive a response specifying a "point" value for their week. And then the searching can begin. My only hope is that the people who are assigning the point value will make correct decisions. 

I trust the honesty and integrity of Redweek and am excited about the potential for this new program to provide a much-needed alternative to RCI and II. They have invested a lot of time and energy into creating it and have come up with some very innovative ideas. Let's hope it succeeds.

There's a link to it on Redweek's home page. Look for the message in the left hand corner:
"Our NEW full-service exchange program is now available.
Get info »"


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## timeos2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*An open system - great!*

I'm happy to see them using and publishing an open, points based system of values as, ultimately, thats what all exchange companies use anyway. It is the hidden nature of the value at RCI/II - fostering the idea that any week can trade for any week - that leads to so many disappointments with their users. Being upfront with the value helps everyone and keeps expectations and options in line with reality.


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## CatLovers (Jun 11, 2007)

CatLovers said:


> *However, when I go to browse exchange availability, I can't seem to find anything.  I suspect it's because no one has deposited yet.  Most people will want to browse before they deposit.  Wonder how they're going to get past this initial non-inventory issue?*



I got an e-mail back from the folks at Redweek.  There is inventory after all; just not in all the places I looked to start  .  They also said that they have a partner who provided them with exchange inventory to start - about several thousand weeks available at this point.

I must admit that I am VERY pleased to see a system that is open about the value of the weeks it has in its inventory.  It really takes away the "black box" approach that the two major players in this industry have always put forward.  While I suspect that I won't always agree with the point ratings given by Redweek, now we will have a resource that at least TRIES to assign a trade value to timeshare weeks, so that you can make a knowledgeable decision as to whether to deposit with them or not.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 11, 2007)

This is an extremely good idea.  And, Redweek is in a good position to pull it off.  Let's see how smart they are at doing it.

They are the closest in the industry to pulling this off...a true rental exchange company.  They are missing a few components to really make it work.  I hope they figure it out quickly or this exchange concept will be as much of a bust as their direct exchange program.

Their biggest problem is that they are just a listing site today.  People go to Redweek to list weeks or to rent/sell them.  That is a completely different mind set for an exchange company where people come with inventory to get inventory.

I believe it can be done.  But, there are a few key elements that they must create first.  It will be interesting to watch.


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## ouaifer (Jun 11, 2007)

Perhaps I'll revise my first impressions.

So far, I received their points values for three different weeks that I submitted.  Their offer is _*for one week*_...then those values go away.  You have to resubmit as time progresses.  Once you lock in your value and accept their exchange value, you have 3 years to use those points...and you can bank any remaining points and use them at a later date within the three year time frame.


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## e.bram (Jun 11, 2007)

Not going to work. People who want to exchange want to change up. Most don't but ocassionally thet get a winner. Hope lives eternal. People who gamble know the will probably lose but gamble anyway hoping to win. The same with exchangers. With the Redweek system there is little chance of trading up so exchangers won't go for it. It will fail. RCI and II know this and that's why they use the paradigm of keeping people in the dark about the value of the exchanges. That's what people want.(maybe not tuggers)


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 11, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> This is an extremely good idea.  And, Redweek is in a good position to pull it off.  Let's see how smart they are at doing it.
> 
> They are the closest in the industry to pulling this off...a true rental exchange company.  They are missing a few components to really make it work.  I hope they figure it out quickly or this exchange concept will be as much of a bust as their direct exchange program.
> 
> ...


Since Redweek started up, their strategy of requiring to pay to look has been oft questioned here.  But when I got the e-mail my first reaction when I got the e-mail is that their strategy is now clear.

Redweek's goal is to become a one-stop internet home for things timeshare related. It will be the place to go to buy, sell, rent, or exchange.  They will charge a fee to join, as they do with Classmates, but once in you're part of the community. The only piece they're really missing is a BBS such as TUG or TS4Ms; in fact, if they get traction an affiliation with TUG or TS4Ms seems pretty logical to me.

For now it's independent.  If Redweek builds sufficient size and momentum, it's attractiveness and usefulness to developers would be considerable.


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## e.bram (Jun 11, 2007)

What's to keep SFX, DAE etc from going into the selling bussiness. It is easier to do that than start an exchange operation. I would say thay have head start for a sight which wants to be all inclusive TS sight.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 11, 2007)

e.bram said:


> What's to keep SFX, DAE etc from going into the selling bussiness. It is easier to do that than start an exchange operation. I would say thay have head start for a sight which wants to be all inclusive TS sight.



For starters, something like that is not in SFX's business plan, and probably couldn't be made to fit.

Beyond that, I would say the big thing that Redweek has going for them is that they are run by a much more internet savvy group of people.  Pulling off something such as that is more than just hiring a bunch of developers and creating a web page. 

IOW - the big issue facing independent exchange companies is the simple fact that they haven't done it yet.  If the market is there (and I suspect it is), their failure to seize the opportunity is significant.


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## e.bram (Jun 11, 2007)

The independant exchange companies have a larger customer list that Redweek. If they wanted to start a sales and renting classified they could email them. Thay know timesharing better than Redweek and could be up and running in a short time. The exchange business is a order of magitude more complex than a classified.


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## Pit (Jun 11, 2007)

e.bram said:


> Not going to work. People who want to exchange want to change up. Most don't but ocassionally thet get a winner. Hope lives eternal. People who gamble know the will probably lose but gamble anyway hoping to win. The same with exchangers. With the Redweek system there is little chance of trading up so exchangers won't go for it. It will fail. RCI and II know this and that's why they use the paradigm of keeping people in the dark about the value of the exchanges. That's what people want.(maybe not tuggers)



I think RCI and II keep their valuations in the dark for a different reason - they don't want to put themselves in a position where they must defend their valuation system. They regard developers as their customers, rather than t/s owners. They don't want to explain/argue with OLCC (for example) as to why their resort is not rated higher.

Redweek is in a decent position to make an open system work, because they are not beholden to developers. Their biggest problem will be reaching and educating the multitude of owners that are ignorant to exchange alternatives. The same problem faced by SFX and DAE.


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## e.bram (Jun 11, 2007)

Pit: In an open system your ability to trade up is severly restricted. From all the posts on tug most people who exchange want to trade up. The would not get involved with a system that did not give them that chance.


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## ausman (Jun 11, 2007)

I don't think they will make a go of it.

I just received an evaluation of one resort for point value and based on that I could not exchange into the Poconos in late September. And if I did I'd have to pay $225. Plus the exchange fee and the membership fee.

The week I asked about would have a significant  upwards rental differntial from the Pocono week, in the order of 2x. Not that I want to rent, hence the interest.

You would think with the initial roll out, giving fair value would help them build some buzz and a boost to a sustainable business model. 

I'll check back in a few months and see how they are doing. Maybe it is lowball offers only now.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 11, 2007)

Redweek is headed in the right direction.  But, remember Lycos, Altavista and Yahoo?  They were all search engines before Google came to the scene.  Then, Google came out with their advertising model that revolutionized search.

Someone else will come up with a model that will blow Redweek out of the water.

They are on the right concept.  Just like Altavista was right by being on search.  I hope they adapt well.  It doesn't appear that they ran a customer beta test based on early results.


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## Pit (Jun 11, 2007)

e.bram said:


> Pit: In an open system your ability to trade up is severly restricted. From all the posts on tug most people who exchange want to trade up. The would not get involved with a system that did not give them that chance.



I agree that trading up is unlikely, assuming the point values assigned are "correct." However, I don't think tuggers, as a group, are representative of t/s owners. Tuggers invest alot more time than most owners to learn the art.

I believe there is a large number of unsatisfied t/s owners out there that end up trading down every year just to get something, rather than nothing. These owners would be thrilled with a system that provides an equal xchg with minimal effort.

I also think there are many owners that voluntarily trade down, if they can use a point system to obtain multiple weeks for their single, high-end week. That's a good way to minimize your ratio of m/f per week.


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## JudyS (Jun 11, 2007)

Well, anything that offers an alternative to RCI sounds like good news to me!  I'm happy to hear about this.  I'm going to head over to Redweek later and pony up the membership fee.  (I've let my membership expire.) 



e.bram said:


> Not going to work. People who want to exchange want to change up..... RCI and II know this and that's why they use the paradigm of keeping people in the dark about the value of the exchanges. That's what people want.(maybe not tuggers)


E. Bram, if that's true, then why do so many people join RCI Points?  Not only do they _join_ RCI Points, some people spend thousands to convert their weeks.  I know Redweek doesn't have the hard sell like some resorts do for RCI Points conversions, but still, there seems to be a population that is happy with the points concept. 



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ....Redweek's goal is to become a one-stop internet home for things timeshare related. It will be the place to go to buy, sell, rent, or exchange.  They will charge a fee to join, as they do with Classmates, but once in you're part of the community.....


Steve, Redweek has the same parent company as Classmates?  I didn't know that.  Classmates sure seems to be willing to spend the bucks on advertising.  (I've seen enough Classmates ads to last a lifetime -- fortunately, the ads are reasonably amusing.)



basham said:


> ...I just received an evaluation of one resort for point value and based on that I could not exchange into the Poconos in late September. And if I did I'd have to pay $225. Plus the exchange fee and the membership fee..... Maybe it is lowball offers only now.


I haven't checked out the new system yet.  But, wouldn't the amount that they offer you to deposit your week also be the amount they charge others to receive that same week?  Or, are you saying that they have two prices -- one that they offer depositors to "sell" their week to the points system, and a different, higher one that they require to "buy" a week from the system?


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## CatLovers (Jun 11, 2007)

*Their point valuations seem fair*

I've received point values on three weeks in three different resorts, and based on my knowledge of the resorts and the demand for the weeks, they're roughly what I expected.  I'll reserve my final judgment until we have a few more experiences to consider, but my first reaction is that their point valuations are fair.  I'm still waiting to hear back on two more.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 11, 2007)

redweek deposit form said:
			
		

> I hereby authorize my resort to release the entitlement as described on this form to RedWeek.com, powered by DAE, for their exclusive use and I cede my right of occupancy. I confim that this entitlement has not been used, and will not be used or committed to the use of any other person or company.




Here is the redweek deposit form  "powered by DAE" is the key phrase I think.

PS I was offered 975 points for my TS what that equal to?


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## AnnaO (Jun 11, 2007)

e.bram said:


> Not going to work. People who want to exchange want to change up. Most don't but ocassionally thet get a winner. Hope lives eternal. People who gamble know the will probably lose but gamble anyway hoping to win. The same with exchangers. With the Redweek system there is little chance of trading up so exchangers won't go for it. It will fail. RCI and II know this and that's why they use the paradigm of keeping people in the dark about the value of the exchanges. That's what people want.(maybe not tuggers)



I had an exchange listed with Redweek, so they invited me to join the new program today. Reading the small print, it looks like you can sort of "trade up" by buying points, as long as you have 60%(I think) points needed for your desired exchange.

However, finding what to exchange into was kind of a hassle.
I have not tried any exchange company so far, so I have no comparison, but it seems to me that the search engine on Redweek is very limited. I couldn't find a way to see what I could find in my desired week, for example, without going into each individual geographic region one by one.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 11, 2007)

who of you would be interested in a long discussion about what would make "the perfect exchange company" strategy?

online or offline..whichever is easier.  IE take the best of everything...even ideas that dont exist...and mold them into a single strategy for exchanging.

thoughts?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Steve, Redweek has the same parent company as Classmates?  I didn't know that.  Classmates sure seems to be willing to spend the bucks on advertising.  (I've seen enough Classmates ads to last a lifetime -- fortunately, the ads are reasonably amusing.)



Yep - and if you compare I think you'll find quite a few similarities in their business models.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 12, 2007)

I was offered 3,451 for my Bali Hai three bedroom Christmas week.


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## Jennie (Jun 12, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> who of you would be interested in a long discussion about what would make "the perfect exchange company" strategy?
> 
> online or offline..whichever is easier.  IE take the best of everything...even ideas that dont exist...and mold them into a single strategy for exchanging.
> 
> thoughts?



I'd love to participate in this. Would it perhaps be better if a new thread was started in order to accumulate the responses in one place?


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## TUGBrian (Jun 12, 2007)

yes...I wouldnt want to clutter up this one...sorry =)

Ill start a new thread tomorrow.


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## JudyS (Jun 12, 2007)

CatLovers said:


> I got an e-mail back from the folks at Redweek.  There is inventory after all; just not in all the places I looked to start  .  They also said that they have a partner who provided them with exchange inventory to start - about several thousand weeks available at this point.....


Looks like the deposit form tells us just who that partner is, as quoted by Bill4728:


Bill4728 said:


> Here is the redweek deposit form  "powered by DAE" is the key phrase I think.


Interesting!  So, there's the answer to those who said Redweek would face competition from the independent exchange companies -- they are already partnered with DAE.  In fact, I'm seeing Redweek exchange inventory that I know DAE has lots of, such as Lagonita Lodge.  I hope that DAE isn't offering all of its inventory to Redweek, just the inventory that they get directly from their affiliated resorts.  (If DAE were to give Redweek inventory that individual timeshare owners deposited, then they'd have a conflict of interest over renting inventory, similar to what RCI has.) 




AnnaO said:


> I had an exchange listed with Redweek, so they invited me to join the new program today. Reading the small print, it looks like you can sort of "trade up" by buying points, as long as you have 60%(I think) points needed for your desired exchange.
> 
> However, finding what to exchange into was kind of a hassle.
> I have not tried any exchange company so far, so I have no comparison, but it seems to me that the search engine on Redweek is very limited. I couldn't find a way to see what I could find in my desired week, for example, without going into each individual geographic region one by one.


Do you know what the price is for buying points?  I got a "file not found" error when I tried to look into that.

As for how hard the new Redweek system is to search, it's way better than RCI Points, but not nearly as good as II. 




TUG Improvements! said:


> who of you would be interested in a long discussion about what would make "the perfect exchange company" strategy?...


Thinking of starting a TUG-based exchange, Brian?  Sounds interesting!  But, I do think there's the problem that all the TUG members will try to trade up.


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## CatLovers (Jun 12, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Do you know what the price is for buying points?  I got a "file not found" error when I tried to look into that.



$1 per point, no more than 50% of what's needed.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 12, 2007)

JudyS said:


> Thinking of starting a TUG-based exchange, Brian?  Sounds interesting!  But, I do think there's the problem that all the TUG members will try to trade up.



Just entertaining ideas....no sense in duplicating what everyone else has done and or tried to do.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 12, 2007)

That's a good partnership.  Redweek and DAE.  DAE is a dead business unless it creates trading power rules.  This is their way to do it.  Redweek is a dead business model unless they get a larger portion of the transactions.  This is their way to do it.  This is a match made in heaven.  

It will be interesting to see if DAE will relax its rather parochial view that timesharing is "exclusive."  In order for this partnership to really work, they have to violate their principle that they will NOT rent to non-owners.  If this partnership doesn't allow it, I believe it will fail.


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## AnnaO (Jun 12, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> In order for this partnership to really work, they have to violate their principle that they will NOT rent to non-owners.  If this partnership doesn't allow it, I believe it will fail.



How so? Isn't this an exchange program? If you have at least 50% of points from a deposit, then you must be an owner?
Just curious.


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## Carolinian (Jun 12, 2007)

That startegy was first tried by European independent exchange company Timelinx, founded by Swedish business grad students and the first exchange company to focus on the internet. Timelinx even had an online review section. Unfortunately the new owners who bought out the founders have deemphasized exchanging and taken the company into some very shady areas.  




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Since Redweek started up, their strategy of requiring to pay to look has been oft questioned here.  But when I got the e-mail my first reaction when I got the e-mail is that their strategy is now clear.
> 
> Redweek's goal is to become a one-stop internet home for things timeshare related. It will be the place to go to buy, sell, rent, or exchange.  They will charge a fee to join, as they do with Classmates, but once in you're part of the community. The only piece they're really missing is a BBS such as TUG or TS4Ms; in fact, if they get traction an affiliation with TUG or TS4Ms seems pretty logical to me.
> 
> For now it's independent.  If Redweek builds sufficient size and momentum, it's attractiveness and usefulness to developers would be considerable.


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## Carolinian (Jun 12, 2007)

DAE has a system to allow owners to put their weeks up for rent, which is a seperate pool than the exchange deposits.  Any system that rents out exchange deposits to the general public has a huge conflict of interest that will corrupt its system.

The current DAE system is a proven success in Australian / New Zealand where it was founded and is rapidly expanding elsewhere.  If I were looking at it's system as a mere theory, I would tend to have the same opinion you do of its model.  However it HAS been proven to work well in the real world and one simply cannot argue with that.




BocaBum99 said:


> That's a good partnership.  Redweek and DAE.  DAE is a dead business unless it creates trading power rules.  This is their way to do it.  Redweek is a dead business model unless they get a larger portion of the transactions.  This is their way to do it.  This is a match made in heaven.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if DAE will relax its rather parochial view that timesharing is "exclusive."  In order for this partnership to really work, they have to violate their principle that they will NOT rent to non-owners.  If this partnership doesn't allow it, I believe it will fail.


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## Carolinian (Jun 12, 2007)

You have hit the nail on the head.  If an exchange system works with developers and publishes its value system, developers will politick them for better numbers and too often succeed, corrupting the system.  I know for a fact that Barrier Island Station politicked RCI for higher numbers before it would join points, and then screwed its more highly demanded oceanfront resorts in favor of higher numbers for its off-the-beach resort (the lowest demand resort on the OBX rental market) because it was still in developer sales.

A published values listing and working with developers in a recipe for corruption.  Redweek escapes this by working directly with individual owners.




Pit said:


> I think RCI and II keep their valuations in the dark for a different reason - they don't want to put themselves in a position where they must defend their valuation system. They regard developers as their customers, rather than t/s owners. They don't want to explain/argue with OLCC (for example) as to why their resort is not rated higher.
> 
> Redweek is in a decent position to make an open system work, because they are not beholden to developers. Their biggest problem will be reaching and educating the multitude of owners that are ignorant to exchange alternatives. The same problem faced by SFX and DAE.


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## Loriannf (Jun 12, 2007)

*Offer received, but no desireable exchange options*

I received an offer of 3,251 points for a Westin St John 3 bedroom pool villa for a week beginning the Saturday after Thanksgiving, 2007.  Probably won't take it unless a desireable exchange option presents itself before the offer expires.  

Right now I think the system is too new to allow the kinds of exchanges we're looking for, but I might try it later if we don't find something through another avenue.

Lori


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## Cathyb (Jun 12, 2007)

Sadly I guess Redweek doesn't like a July 5-12 summer week in Kaanapali, Maui   My value for a one bedroom, two bath was just 1484 credits.  The sad thing about these exchange companies -- there is no "upgrade" for straight-on white water view units.


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## e.bram (Jun 12, 2007)

CathyB: Did you mean "white" waterview units or "white water(surf)" views.


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## Simoncc (Jun 12, 2007)

Cathyb said:


> Sadly I guess Redweek doesn't like a July 5-12 summer week in Kaanapali, Maui   My value for a one bedroom, two bath was just 1484 credits.



Was your points request for 2007 or 2208 useage? The Redweek system seems to vary the points values depending upon how early the units are deposited.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 12, 2007)

Cathyb said:


> Sadly I guess Redweek doesn't like a July 5-12 summer week in Kaanapali, Maui   My value for a one bedroom, two bath was just 1484 credits.  The sad thing about these exchange companies -- there is no "upgrade" for straight-on white water view units.



But the nice thing here is that you know exactly what it is worth to them in comparison with other properties and make your decision accordingly.  No guessing, hoping, or running trade tests.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 12, 2007)

The point values which we have been posting, can they be added together and get something really special like the St Johns?


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## ouaifer (Jun 12, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> The point values which we have been posting, can they be added together and get something really special like the St Johns?



Yes, you can accumulate your points and use them in total or part, and save the remainder for other exchanges.


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## riverdees05 (Jun 12, 2007)

When they raised their rates, I did not renew my membership.  To get the points, etc. do you have to be a member?  I assume you do, are there any specials for new or returning members?


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## ouaifer (Jun 12, 2007)

riverdees05 said:


> When they raised their rates, I did not renew my membership.  To get the points, etc. do you have to be a member?  I assume you do, are there any specials for new or returning members?



Yes, you have to be a member for either 6 months or a year.

Here's some of the info they sent,

"_RedWeek Exchange Member Guide
Our BRAND NEW exchange program is one of a kind. In response to member requests, we have moved from a direct exchange program to a full service exchange. Read this guide, along with our terms of service, prior to exchanging. 

Quick Facts:
Use points from your week to get what you really want. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Membership is only $14.99/year and gives you access to all other RedWeek member benefits, like reviews, want ads, rentals & resales. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exchange fees are only $125/transaction. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No surcharge fees for international trades - travel the world. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get three years from date of deposit to use your points. 24/7 online exchanges 
On a user-friendly Web site with convenient e-mail support. 

Find your exchange before you deposit 
Search online to ensure the exchange you want is available before you commit. Or, deposit first and get three years to use your points. 

Keep the change 
This unique program lets you keep leftover points when exchanging for a lesser-value week. 

Pay the difference and get what you really want 
As long as your timeshare deposits provide 50% of the value of your desired week, just buy the remaining points to get the week - currently just $1/point. 

No hidden weeks 
On RedWeek.com, you see all available weeks and can reserve if you have enough points. 

Low membership prices 
The only membership you need is the standard RedWeek.com membership - just $9.99 for 6 months or $14.99 for 12 months. 

Low exchange fees - one price for any destination 
Pay just $125 USD when you reserve your week - NO surcharge for international trades. 

No fees for guest certificates 
Let someone else use your week for no additional cost. _"

If you go to their web site, I am sure there's an area to look at the _Exchange Information_.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 12, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> Any system that rents out exchange deposits to the general public has a huge conflict of interest that will corrupt its system.



That is NOT true in all cases.  If the exchange company paid cash to the exchanger for their deposit, then there is NO conflict of interest if the exchange company then rents it later.


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## Transit (Jun 12, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> The point values which we have been posting, can they be added together and get something really special like the St Johns?



It's probably too early but there is nothing like ST Johns listed with exchange avalibilty yet . All I see is white weeks in some areas and nothing at all in most areas.


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## Miss Marty (Jun 12, 2007)

*Red Week - Exchange Program*

Note: Dial An Exchange DAE  will be providing the
backend services to Redweek's exchange program


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## e.bram (Jun 12, 2007)

should change their name from Redweek to Whiteweek Exchange. All they will get is white weeks deposited looking to exchange into bright red weeks. GOOD LUCK!!!


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## travelhound (Jun 12, 2007)

The search engine is a real dog.  They won't make it if they can't improve performance.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*Great system!*

Submitted 2 weeks that I rent all the time:

2BR Week 51 ski week I've rented for $2,400 in the past and Redweek offered 2,321 RW points.

Mini Suite Week 50 ski week that I’ve rented before for $1,000 and RedWeek offered 1,180 points.

Obviously they have access to all the historical rental records for rentals and “comps” for similar units and locations.

*1 RW Point = $1 actual rental.*

This is a great system just like Resort2Resort 

It’s based upon a currency system that is tied to actual rental rates.  This allows the exchange of $1 for 1 RW Point and if you have at leat 50% of the RW Points needed for an exchange you can substitute US dollars for RW Points.

Great system, and I’m inclined to deposit the Mini Suite and see what happens.

I'll wait until the 7 days is up to see if anyone reports actual exchanges.  So far I find NO inventory to exchange into.

I, personally, believe that this is as close of a perfect exchange system as possible.  To go further you can bank Points forward 3 years.

Since RW decides what to offer each and every deposit they control supply and demand to some extent. They will pass on dogs and there will be little ability to do the RCI week trick of converting lead into gold.


P.S.
I'm assuming that new deposits will send eMail alerts if you have set an alarm.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*Major Brainstorm!!!!!!!*

Folks wanting to rent out their unit now have a great source for getting the rental value!!!!!   *<- Important*

Just submit your unit for an appraisal (it's free) and RedWeek will tell you what it's worth as a rental rate.

Wow!  This is great!


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*How long before...*

So how long will it take RedWeek to completely dominate the secondary timeshare market?

It would not take them long to have you submit your unit for an appraisal for resale and then deposit the unit into your account and get RW Points.

You could then take those RW Points and just rent units or you could deposit some weeks for rent and then just buy another unit with those RW Points.  You could mix and match resales and rentals.

They could charge a fee to handle all the paperwork and take all that business from the various closing companies.

The sky is the limit - good for them.


This is what Point systems are all about - a currency that can be used an infinite number of ways.


P.S.
This would be a great way for developers to sell huge blocks of units - they would not put their name to the deal but use another name.  That way there is NO, did I mention NO, sales cost at all.  No free gifts, no sales galleries, no sales reps making $200,000+ per year, just all Internet transactions with RedWeek doing the closing.

I could see Marriott unloading those Bronze Summit Watches tomorrow on RedWeek.

This is exactly what has been missing from the secondary timeshare resale market - someone to set a price.


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## Tacoma (Jun 13, 2007)

The search engine at redweek does let you check by the week you want to travel fairly easily.  I just entered United States then went to advanced search and could put in the specific weeks I wanted to travel.  They don't have a lot yet but it was a great way to check for a week I could travel since I only had to put in my details once to check the entire united states or canada.  I was offered 1384 points for my 2 bedroom units at Banff Rocky Mountain Resort.  I was happy with the offer for my week 13 (ski season) but felt it should be higher for my week 29 since summer is very hard to get in banff and I think it is requested a lot.  Just can't decide what to do with the weeks now I was leaning towards DAE because of the ease of their seach engine and excellent customer service.

Joan


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

Perry,

You are taking way too much of a leap of faith that Redweek will execute well enough to survive.   It's possible, but not guaranteed.  Who says that Redweek has a historical database of all transactions?  They don't.   They are just a listing site.  I'd say that NTHC has a better historical database.

Before you declare them the winner in points based exchange companies, consider this post about search engines:



> The "Best of the Web" award for "Navigation Aides" in 1994 mentions: AliWeb, Internet Meta-Index, Jumpstation, W3Catalog, and WorldWideWebWorm.
> Directory-turned-obscure-PPC-engine Galaxy has a long page on the history of web search:
> http://galaxy.com/info/history2.html
> .. in which the "World Wide Web Wanderer" is called the mother of all search engines.
> ...



The dominant search engine player, Google, wasn't even a twinkle in the eye of the founders until 5 years after the initial players entered the market.

After thinking about the Redweek model for 24 hours now, I already see 2 or 3 massive flaws in their business model.  We will see if they figure them out in time to avoid major disaster.

The problems:

1) Abundance and critical mass.  Think power generation.  To power a city, you need to power up the generators in a way that the demand for energy matches to supply generated.  An exchange company has to have ample supply of weeks that trade before they expire or the exchange company implodes.  Test number 1:  Do you as a potential exchanger believe that there is ample inventory that if you deposit your week, you are likely to get a fair trade?

2) Market makers.  At this time, there is only one.  That's Redweek.  They can't possibly know 3500 resorts as well as NTHC knows east coast rental rates by season.  Market makers will take deposits and give value.  The market maker makes sure that transactions occur in all sub sectors of the market.  Redweek should have reduced the tranaction fee to about $50 and allowed market makers to come in to make money through their facility.  I fear that Redweek will just give what they believe is a fair market value for a deposit based on their historical database without actively recruiting market makers.  Market makers would proactively get deposits and move units like a rental company does.  A rental company acquires inventory at its own cost that it knows it can move.  And, it has a margin built into the rentals that fairly compensates them for their effort.  The key point is they acquire inventory and move it.  That is what a market maker does.  That's what this exchange company needs. Test number 2:  Will there be significant transaction volume (10 or more transactions per month) at hundreds or more resorts within 2-3 months?

3) Trust and Transparency.  Are depositers believing that Redweek is qualified to run the exchange company and ensure that there is enough transaction volume so that tons of deposits don't expire within 6 months without being exchanged.  If they don't get to critical mass within several months, you could have a significant portion of the deposits expire, but still have exchange liability for 3 years for everyone making a deposit.  This leads to point inflation.  Too many points chasing too few inventory.  Test number 3:  does Redweek have a dashboard that it provides to illustrate the health of the exchange system.  Total transactions.  Total points available in the system.  Total point value of weeks in the system.  Breakage (how many weeks expire).  Strategy for reinjecting weeks into the system for every week that expires.

At any given point in time, the total available points remaining in the system should closely approximate the total point value of exchangable weeks.  Does anyone on this board believe that Redweek.com, a listing company, knows how to make this market?  I think a large timeshare rental company or a large exchange company would be in a better position to manage this delicate balance of matching supply and demand for exchange.

As soon as people lose the trust in the system, it will grind to a halt and all early depositers will be hosed.

In my opinion, Redweek should have first started off a rental company so that it could get the experience in market making.  Then, move to exchanges leveraging the inherent tax advantages of exchange vs. rentals.

Until I see evidence of their market making skills, I give them a 25% or less probability of surviving their first year.


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## KauaiMark (Jun 13, 2007)

*FWIW...Kauai Marriott next summer*

I entered a "Valuation Request" for our "Kauai Marriott Beach club 1/br2ba for July/2008" and it came back as 2000 pts.

Took a look around for exchanging to other Hawaii locations and didn't find much.

This may work out once more people are willing to commit their week but right now I believe that all the "high value" holders are in the "wait-N-see" mode before committing


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> So how long will it take RedWeek to completely dominate the secondary timeshare market?




You're kidding me, right?  I don't think they even dominate the timeshare listing segment of the industry which is their core business.  I believe that small timeshare brokerage firms have larger revenue streams than does Redweek.

The next dominant player in the secondary timeshare market will be the company that expands the market for timeshares.  This exchange facilility is marketing to the same old timesharing customers.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

KauaiMark said:


> I entered a "Valuation Request" for our "Kauai Marriott Beach club 1/br2ba for July/2008" and it came back as 2000 pts.
> 
> Took a look around for exchanging to other Hawaii locations and didn't find much.
> 
> This may work out once more people are willing to commit their week but right now I believe that all the "high value" holders are in the "wait-N-see" mode before committing




Exactly.  Your personal experience indicated to you that Redweek failed test number 1.  No abundance.  No critical mass.

Once you deposit, YOU bear ALL the risk if Redweek doesn't execute. If deposits don't dramatically increase in 6 months, there is a very real possiblity that there will be tons of points chasing very few weeks with NO way to recoup any value.  

What is the incentive for you to bear that risk?  You don't even have a chance of a bonus week or a trade up.  And, you have a real risk of getting nothing.


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## Pit (Jun 13, 2007)

KauaiMark said:


> This may work out once more people are willing to commit their week but right now I believe that all the "high value" holders are in the "wait-N-see" mode before committing



Redweek could solve this problem by allowing owners to commit their week on a conditional basis. The condition being that a suitable match is found within a given timeframe.

For example, I would be willing to commit for say 2 months. For those 2 months, the week is theirs. If they can find what I want within that timeframe, they have my week. If not, I get my week back (and decide if I will resubmit my week or take it elsewhere). This approach would allow them to arrange multi-party trades. while also alleviating owners' fear of getting nothing in exchange.


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## Stressy (Jun 13, 2007)

KauaiMark said:


> I entered a "Valuation Request" for our "Kauai Marriott Beach club 1/br2ba for July/2008" and it came back as 2000 pts.
> 
> Took a look around for exchanging to other Hawaii locations and didn't find much.
> 
> This may work out once more people are willing to commit their week but right now I believe that all the "high value" holders are in the "wait-N-see" mode before committing



I was waiting for a post exactly like this. I think your Marriott is a high value week. I submited my Maui summer week 6-11 to 6-18/2008 1 bd/2ba at a resort that is definitely inferior to Marriott and I received the same quote, 2000. Do we seriously believe I am going be to able to trade in to your unit with mine? Interesting.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*My faith in Mr X (ok, it could be Mrs or Ms)*

I’m assuming that they guy who owns RedWeek is a multi-multi millionaire and is a really sharp guy.  I’m assuming that he’s not a moron and that his employees captured all the historical data that his web site generated over the years – he would be a moron to let that valuable data go.

So he has an excellent supply of rental rates and past asking prices for sales – the foundation to set up a new way to deal with rentals and sales.

I don’t know the guy who owns RedWeek but I’ll put enough faith in him to become the pioneer here and implement what I described.  We shall see what he does.

Chicken and egg syndrome
I’m inclined to give it a try, won’t go into detail why but I’ll give it a try with one unit.  I have up to 3 years to exchange; hopefully folks will decide that all the bitching and moaning going on about exchanges has a company trying to solve the problem.  Someone seems to be listening, will the consumers?


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

Pit said:


> Redweek could solve this problem *by allowing owners to commit their week on a conditional basis*. The condition being that a suitable match is found within a given timeframe.
> 
> For example, I would be willing to commit for say 2 months. For those 2 months, the week is theirs. If they can find what I want within that timeframe, they have my week. If not, I get my week back (and decide if I will resubmit my week or take it elsewhere). This approach would allow them to arrange multi-party trades. while also alleviating owners' fear of getting nothing in exchange.




I don't see how.  You now have 3 years to use your points.

To make this conditional would be to introduce uncertainty to what folks can view as inventory to exchange.  It would not take long for consumers to give up when inventory just disappears and rumors spread.

Look at the rumors with II and RCI - that's what half this chat room does most of the time.


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## sfwilshire (Jun 13, 2007)

I sent for a quote out of curiousity. Be sure to split your lockoffs if you have them. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but it was something like 1br = 1400+, 2br=1900+, 3br combined only = 2400+. 

I didn't see much interesting available yet, but I'm game if they start getting a good selection.

Sheila


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## Carolinian (Jun 13, 2007)

It seems to me that Redweek is positioned where it can at least avoid some of the inherent flaws in RCI Points.

1) It is not tied to developers, so there is no corruption of the numbers system to pander to developers as is common at RCI Points.

2) Its number system is not published in a paper and ink format, giving them more flexibility to correctly value weeks.  The space limitations of a paper and ink system like that at RCI Points virtually mandates over-averaging that incorrectly values many weeks.  The question is, have they taken advantage of this?  It would take a LOT of time to sit down and do it.  The exact same number coming back for two widely different Hawaii weeks, reported above, shows they probably haven't yet.

Other major issues to watch:

1) Is there a fire sale point reduction for last minute inventory?  The reality of the market that short shelf life inventory is distressed inventory must be addressed to have a viable system.  They do seem to give fewer points for a last minute deposit.  A fair and viable system would dictate the same for a last minute withdrawal.

2) How are the values of various resorts in the same area differntiated?  Is it only by award status, which is a more minor consideration to most timesharers or by resort location (beachfront over off-the-beach at a beach resort area; main city area rather than outskirts for urban timeshares, etc.) which matters more to most folks.

3) Are the points numbers dynamic?  Values for deposits are obviously and correctly set by market conditions at time of deposit, and logically withdrawal numbers should similarly be fixed at time of withdrawal.  How often are they updated.

4) Will they add non-timeshare fluff like RCI Points Partners?  This would lead to deteriotation of the core business.

Redweek has the potential to create a much fairer points system than RCI, but it is way too early to say if they will.


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## PA- (Jun 13, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> It seems to me that Redweek is positioned where it can at least avoid some of the inherent flaws in RCI Points.
> 
> 1) It is not tied to developers, so there is no corruption of the numbers system to pander to developers as is common at RCI Points.
> 
> ...



Timeshare exchange companies are hurting these days, and I doubt it'll get better.  Most new timeshares are chains, and much of the usage is inside the chain.  I doubt that Redweek will ever be a player in the market.  The fact that you have to join Redweek to see anything doesn't help them.  Nor the fact that their exchange rates are very high.  Nor the fact they have zero brand recognition, and very little promotion budget.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> It seems to me that Redweek is positioned where it can at least avoid some of the inherent flaws in RCI Points.
> 
> 1) It is not tied to developers, so there is no corruption of the numbers system to pander to developers as is common at RCI Points.
> 
> ...




Carolinian,

I find this ironic.  But I believe we are in agreement.

Exchange companies need the developers because they help to ensure an ample supply of weeks.  If Redweek doesn't have their weeks to reinject into the system, what will they do to close the exchange gap created from expired weeks?

I wonder if Redweek hired exchange specialists to help exchangers find exchanges?  If they don't, they are in big trouble already.  But, I can see why they would believe that an open system where people find their own exchanges would be great.  They wouldn't have to hire employees.  But then, their system wouldn't be worth $125/exchange.

Here's what will happen.  Mark and Stressy own Marrriott's.  They see that they are both offering them up.  They can do a direct exchange rather than pay the $125 fee.  If Redweek had specialists or market makers, they would help match Mark and Stressy or other parties in an exchange chain.  The bottom line is that someone needs to play matchmaker.

The problem I see is that Redweek is using an exchange company business model and they are trying to make trade power formula visible.  This is good. But, they shedded some of the exchange company conventions like developer relationships and exchange specialists (aka market makers).   Maybe they have them and we just haven't seen evidence of them yet.

I think Redweek needs to determine if it wants to be an exchange company with visible trading power forumla or if they want to be much more.  Time will tell.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*I like what I see so far..*

Here is a 7 nite in a 1BR in Princeville for just 742 pts for June 22-29, 2007.

There are rentals for $100/nite in October, 2007 right above it by owners.

Sounds like RW has a dynamic pricing model that reflects real rental rates.


As someone who rents a lot of units I’m going to scratch my head and try to decide whether RW is competition to me.  If they are, I hate them, if not they're swell guys.

This is certainly going to set the rental market up and alert – do you put your unit up for rent or deposit it with RW?  This could increase my rental rates I gouge out of folks - this I like.

That person who put up the Makai Club at Princeville got a great rate for something that is just a week away – a mistake on RW’s part?

Hopefully RW watched RCI Points screw up a great opportunity by doing all the wrong things at the wrong time.  So far I see nothing that looks like an “RCI mistake”.  I sure hope they don’t get into renting out things for cash necessitated by offering airline tickets, boat tickets, car rentals, etc.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I’m assuming that they guy who owns RedWeek is a multi-multi millionaire and is a really sharp guy.  I’m assuming that he’s not a moron and that his employees captured all the historical data that his web site generated over the years – he would be a moron to let that valuable data go.
> 
> So he has an excellent supply of rental rates and past asking prices for sales – the foundation to set up a new way to deal with rentals and sales.
> 
> ...



So, you are putting your faith in someone you've never met, know nothing about, and haven't seen a full description of its strategy for success?

I can presume then that you would put your faith into the most successful business executive in history who happens to also be one of the smartest human beings on the planet and has more money than many countries treasury reserves?

I guess I missed the press conference on Microsoft's dominance online.  MSN must be the best online service.  MSNBC must be the number 1 cable network.  Microsoft search (heck, I don't even know what it is called) must be better than Google.  It's phone company joint venture with AT&T must be a smashing hit over Skype.  

Smarts only gets you so far in business.  I am not going to say that Redweek will be a failure.  I am saying the odds are stacked heavily against them.   

And, I believe they have been a key strategic error in adopting the business model they did to start.  They should have tried to better leverage what they are known for.... timeshare rentals, not exchange.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

Anyone know if you can put in an ongoing request for a resort or region?  Is there a person who will be actively helping you find an exchange?

I'll bet their answer is that you can enter a list of resorts to watch for potential exchanges and you will be notified by email.

If that's the answer, I am reducing my probability of success down to 15%.  

If they have an exchange request facility implemented, I will move them back up to 25%.  If they have a team of people actively helping exchangers find exchanges, I'll move them up a few percentage points.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*Dumbkoff or Einstein?*



BocaBum99 said:


> So, you are putting your faith in someone you've never met, know nothing about, and haven't seen a full description of its strategy for success?
> 
> I can presume then that you would put your faith into the most successful business executive in history who happens to also be one of the smartest human beings on the planet and has more money than many countries treasury reserves?
> 
> ...



BB,

Talk is cheap, (mine too), RW has the stones to start this and we must wait to see if the owner is a dumbkoff or an Einstein.

I know that RW seems to be the brunt of much ridicule but I'd bet the owner smiles everyday as he goes to the bank.

Will MyResortNetwork follow and offer the same services?  I sure hope so.

Would I love to see a stampede from II and RCI to these folks making these 2 owners filthy rich - you bet.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Here is a 7 nite in a 1BR in Princeville for just 742 pts for June 22-29, 2007.
> 
> There are rentals for $100/nite in October, 2007 right above it by owners.
> 
> ...



Dynamic pricing is the sizzle, not the steak.   It's the frosting, not the cake. 

If they don't have:

1) Abundance and critical mass
2) Market making
3) Trust and Transparency

They are toast.  

Lots of exchange companies make money without having dynamic pricing.

The market would be better off if they became a competitor to you.  But, they are not seeking to be a competitor to you.  They are seeking to be a competitor to RCI and II.


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## travelhound (Jun 13, 2007)

CatLovers said:


> $1 per point, no more than 50% of what's needed.



This is a nice profit center for red weeks.  They can get extra cash and give away up to twice the inventory they take in.  The only way to material balance is to allow borrowing of points, not purchasing.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> BB,
> 
> Talk is cheap, (mine too), RW has the stones to start this and we must wait to see if the owner is a dumbkoff or an Einstein.
> 
> ...



I completely agree that I give lots of credit to the owners for starting such a venture.  They have certainly put more thought into this initiative than either you or me and they put real money into it.  I hope they are successful.  

The combination I would like to see is SFX and Vacationtimesharerentals.  That combination, if properly structured, could blow Redweek off the map.  It would be, soooo easy.


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

*I'm long 1 unit of RedWeek at the market...*

I spend all day forecasting – sometimes minute by minute.  Forecasting is not an exact science – just ask the weather man.  Many times the math runs out and past experience is needed to make the leap of faith that I do many times during the day.

The gut feeling I get with RW is that it will be a huge success spawning many want’to’bes.  To me the first company to start something is in a great situation – if they don’t screw up the implementation and daily execution.

I’ve made a lot of money from RedWeek – sold many timeshares and rented many out using them.  I’m going to assume that they know more about what they are doing than anyone here on TUG.  I vote with them on this new venture.

I go long 1 unit of RedWeek at the market.

P.S.
They really aren't first doing this, just the key concept of they now have a currency that I'd bet is going to be used for other purposes later.


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## Pit (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I don't see how.  You now have 3 years to use your points.
> 
> To make this conditional would be to introduce uncertainty to what folks can view as inventory to exchange.  It would not take long for consumers to give up when inventory just disappears and rumors spread.
> 
> Look at the rumors with II and RCI - that's what half this chat room does most of the time.



Well, I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that RW will have an ongoing search capability. 

If I had my way, this would be a search-first feature, not deposit-first, so my week never goes into the inventory pool. I simply make it available for exchange on the condition that I get what I want. I give them 2 months to make it happen. Beyond that, I haven't lost anything as all of my usage options are still alive (just like my real-estate agent has 2 months to find a buyer, beyond that I'm free to switch listing agents).

Say owner A has Captiva but wants Park City. Owner B has Park City but wants Breckenridge. Owner C has Oahu but wants Captiva. Owner D has Breckenridge but wants Oahu. RW arranges the 4-way exchange, collects $500, and everybody gets what they want (in theory). Assuming the point values are not identical, each owner either adds points/cash or gets back change to balance the transaction. Now, if any one of these owners is absent, this deal could not occur. Thus, I think it is critical to minimize the owner's risk (with search-first).

This is not mutually exclusive with a deposit-first scenario. Some owners may prefer to deposit, bank their points, and go shopping for the next three years. But, those owners will never see my week in this example, because it never goes into the inventory pool. It's either taken directly in a 3-way, 4-way, ..., n-way exchange, or I get it back. No hocus pocus or added uncertainty. I believe most owners would prefer a low risk approach when using a new exchange system (or any system for that matter).


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## Cathyb (Jun 13, 2007)

surf -- beautiful surf


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## Cathyb (Jun 13, 2007)

2008 -- We will be there this year (two weeks more and cannot wait)


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

Pit said:


> Well, I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that RW will have an ongoing search capability.
> 
> If I had my way, this would be a search-first feature, not deposit-first, so my week never goes into the inventory pool. I simply make it available for exchange on the condition that I get what I want. I give them 2 months to make it happen. Beyond that, I haven't lost anything as all of my usage options are still alive (just like my real-estate agent has 2 months to find a buyer, beyond that I'm free to switch listing agents).
> 
> ...




It’s hard for a company to thrive and dominate an industry if their customers are all fence sitters.

I’d bet that RW is busy at work running a parallel system that has all kinds of goodies to make exchanging timeshares a lot of fun.  I'm hoping for all kinds of gadgets to make this enjoyable.

I tried to help my brother-in-law last weekend change the new desired check-in days he now has on an II ongoing search.  We screwed around for 20 minutes on the II web site and I stumbled into the same error I remember seeing more than 1 year ago on the same page.  II could care less about it’s customers.  He had to call in and have the II rep do it - two grown ups with 20+ years of computer experience each could not do it.

If RW has watched II and RCI bully the owners around and the other exchanges languishing around hoping for scraps, then RW is going to introduce an internet site that rivals eBay’s in terms of goodies that folks want in an on-line exchange system.

Will RW do this or have they raided the RCI Points folks and snatched the blockheads over there?  I can only guess, and I don’t see anyone here with more insight than just guessing – which is all we can do at the moment.


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## Pit (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> It’s hard for a company to thrive and dominate an industry if their customers are all fence sitters.



True. I think we're both suggesting that RW needs to take a more owner-friendly approach than RCI/II, if they want to make a splash and get noticed. If they don't, the entire exercise is a big NOOP.


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## Carolinian (Jun 13, 2007)

PA- said:


> Timeshare exchange companies are hurting these days, and I doubt it'll get better.  Most new timeshares are chains, and much of the usage is inside the chain.  I doubt that Redweek will ever be a player in the market.  The fact that you have to join Redweek to see anything doesn't help them.  Nor the fact that their exchange rates are very high.  Nor the fact they have zero brand recognition, and very little promotion budget.



Some assume the asserted fact that most new timeshares are in chains, and it gets repeated a lot.  The only factual information I have seen, however, shows the opposite.  There was an article in a trade journal that was reprinted in Streettalk a year or so ago, and I put a link on TUG, that said that the majority of timeshare now in development was from independent developers, not chains.  The article had the precise numbers.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pit said:


> Well, I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that RW will have an ongoing search capability.
> 
> If I had my way, this would be a search-first feature, not deposit-first, so my week never goes into the inventory pool. I simply make it available for exchange on the condition that I get what I want. I give them 2 months to make it happen. Beyond that, I haven't lost anything as all of my usage options are still alive (just like my real-estate agent has 2 months to find a buyer, beyond that I'm free to switch listing agents).
> 
> ...



I agree with you Pit.  The person who does the matching between A, B, C and D is called the exchange specialist.  I call that person the market maker.

If Redweek doesn't have an ongoing search capability with market makers, they will fail.   If they have hired away exchange specialists from other exchange companies, then I would say that they get it.  

Creating the feature to do ongoing searches is easy.  SFX has it on its website.  It's the exchange specialist that makes or breaks the exchange company.  They tap from all available sources including exchange partners, their own inventory and others.  But at the end of the day, they get paid on transactions completed.

I truly hope that Redweek didn't think they could simply create a technology to set point values for timeshare intervals and then expect the transactions to just happen as people casually browse their site.  Well, even if they did, they could adapt and still be successful.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> It’s hard for a company to thrive and dominate an industry if their customers are all fence sitters.



What a start up venture needs is a compelling value proposition that is so superior to what they have today that they will overcome inertia and trust issues inherent in all start ups vs. incumbents.

If Redweek has nailed a new exchange model that will be adopted by the masses, then it should be easy for anyone on this board to complete this sentence:

"I am cancelling all of my other exchange company memberships because Redweek ....."


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## PerryM (Jun 13, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> What a start up venture needs is a compelling value proposition that is so superior to what they have today that they will overcome inertia and trust issues inherent in all start ups vs. incumbents.
> 
> If Redweek has nailed a new exchange model that will be adopted by the masses, then it should be easy for anyone on this board to complete this sentence:
> 
> "I am cancelling all of my other exchange company memberships because Redweek ....."




Of course I see things a little different (so what else is new).

There are thousands of rentals out in RedWeek already and it is the job of RW to convince them that this is much easier and they don't have to declare the rental income and send a check to Uncle Sam's protection racket.

I can't speak for RW and how they are going to convince those folks to deposit their rental into their exchange system.

They have a fantastic Point system which is based upon reality but they need to improve their existing Internet system which is just paying some nerds to implement an eBay kind of system.

We must see how RW decides to convince us to use their exchange system.

They could also go after fractionals and solicit their business like II is now doing.  Same with condo hotel folks.  Also they could go after VRBO kind of folks to deposit a week with them from their whole ownership condos.  The sky is the limit.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 13, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Of course I see things a little different (so what else is new).
> 
> There are thousands of rentals out in RedWeek already and it is the job of RW to convince them that this is much easier and they don't have to declare the rental income and send a check to Uncle Sam's protection racket.
> 
> ...



Perry,

I completely agree with you on two points.  First, the IDEA of using the market rental rate to assign the points value is an excellent one.  I've made that argument myself in the past.  Second, a key economic value is like kind exchange and no income tax on the equal part.  Redweek clearly gets that and I applaude them for trying to capitalize on it.

Where we disagree at this point is whether or not Redweek is a "fantastic point system." Time and the market will tell us if that is true.  Just paying a nerd to create a system is like saying that all that was needed to create google was to have a couple of nerds cook up a search engine.  Success was much more than that.  I guess that's where we differ.


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## PeelBoy (Jun 13, 2007)

Mine just returned.

The OBBCII one bedroom week 15 scored 1517 RW points.  The Plantation Resort Myrtle Beach two bedroom July week scored 2017 RW points.

With 1517 points, I can book 2 studio weeks in Bali or 2 one bedroom weeks in Scotland off season.  I can get one week only with RCI, so I will give Redweek a chance.


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## PA- (Jun 13, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> Some assume the asserted fact that most new timeshares are in chains, and it gets repeated a lot.  The only factual information I have seen, however, shows the opposite.  There was an article in a trade journal that was reprinted in Streettalk a year or so ago, and I put a link on TUG, that said that the majority of timeshare now in development was from independent developers, not chains.  The article had the precise numbers.




I haven't seen an independent timeshare arrive on the scene in a long time.  Have you?  Meanwhile, chains add thousands of units each and every year.  I guess a simple search of the RCI and II directories would certainly answer that question, if anyone cares enough to research it.  I don't.


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## timeos2 (Jun 13, 2007)

*The ability to combine and split weeks is a key*



PeelBoy said:


> Mine just returned.
> 
> The OBBCII one bedroom week 15 scored 1517 RW points.  The Plantation Resort Myrtle Beach two bedroom July week scored 2017 RW points.
> 
> With 1517 points, I can book 2 studio weeks in Bali or 2 one bedroom weeks in Scotland off season.  I can get one week only with RCI, so I will give Redweek a chance.



And there is at least one value added feature. The ability to take points and split them into two weeks or take two weeks of points and combine them into one better use. Although it has been poopoo'd as undesirable by the weekheads, that is a feature many timeshare owners would love to have available. The strict week for week systems, even forgetting the fact that it's virtually impossible to obtain equal trades, simply don't offer the flexibility desired by owners. A true points system open to any resort / owner can be a holy grail for timeshare if handled right. RCI had the idea but botched the implementation and cost horribly.  Maybe this second attempt will be handled better if the principals don't see it as an instant gold mine the way RCI / Cendant appear to have viewed the RCI systems. An honest attempt to create a value added service would go a long way.


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## jjking42 (Jun 13, 2007)

there website is really slow right now are all the tugger online at once

my values came back
IPV 2 bed summer             1821
Val chatell 2 bed summer    1821
FF flagstaff 2 bed summer   1750

I am tempted to use  IPV with RCi
FF for FF points
Val chatelle with RW


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## wbtimesharer (Jun 13, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> Mine just returned.
> 
> The OBBCII one bedroom week 15 scored 1517 RW points.  The Plantation Resort Myrtle Beach two bedroom July week scored 2017 RW points.
> 
> With 1517 points, I can book 2 studio weeks in Bali or 2 one bedroom weeks in Scotland off season.  I can get one week only with RCI, so I will give Redweek a chance.



How do you search to determine what n number of points can get in the system?

Bill


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## Quimby4 (Jun 14, 2007)

http://www.redweek.com/exchange/

At the top, Value Your Week Free.
They will email you the point value within 24 hours.
Obviously it is new, but there is not much inventory to motivate me...


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## djyamyam (Jun 14, 2007)

*RW Values still need tweaking*

They've valued a 1BR Grand Okanagon Resort as follows:

Nov 11, 2007 - Nov 18, 2007 *425    *1 Bedroom   4
Dec 09, 2007 - Dec 15, 2007 *1,300  *1 Bedroom  4 
Feb 03, 2008 - Feb 10, 2008 *1,300  *1 Bedroom  4

How does that work???? That is definitely offseason for Kelowna and that's a lot of points for a 1BR. If I owned there, I'd bank it with RW too before I'd put it with RCI.

The only question is what I'd be able to reserve in exchange.


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## Jennie (Jun 14, 2007)

Hubby and I own 15 timeshares--mostly fixed/deeded weeks. In the 1990's we space-banked many of them with RCI and received great exchanges. When the RCI "rental games" began, and we could rent their inventory on public web sites for a few hundred dollars, it made no sense to continue to deposit our weeks considering what we were paying in maintenance fees, Special Assessments, the annual RCI membership fee, and the exchange fee. 

I joined Redweek when they first started, and they were offering totally free membership and free rental and sale ads. I was able to rent our weeks so easily that we listed more and more on Redweek, and gave less and less to RCI. As time went on, I began using Redweek as an "iinformal" quasi exchange resource. I would rent out our prime weeks then take the money and rent what we wanted directly from owners who had posted rental ads on Redweek. I was so glad to be able to "cut out the middleman", namely RCI. We were able to get exactly what we wanted, w/o all of the uncertainty and long wait that RCI put us through. 

I have always been extremely pleased with the way Redweek has set things up. Even when their fees crept up through the years, I gladly paid whatever the price was because of the great results I received from our ads, and our ability to make direct deals with other owners. Redweek's customer service has been excellent the few times I needed to contact them (although it must be done via Email rather than phone).

The owners of Redweek created Classmates.com, brought it to the point of profitability and widespread use and satisfaction, then sold it for big $$$$. 
They have the knowledge, experience, expertise, financial resources, and committment to make the new exchange program a success. They have an excellent marketing strategy mapped out. They consider the initiative rolled out this week to be "a soft launch"--sort of a beta test. A few months ago, they offered members the opportunity to post free exchange ads. These are the people who received Emails on Monday describing the new exhange program. I'm not sure Redweek expected the news to spread so fast. If you look at the "announcement" on their homepage, it is so brief that one would not easily notice it unless it was pointed out through some other source.

I have 100% confidence in Redweek's ability to develop and grow an exchange program that will be far superior to any of the other options available to ts owners thus far-- especially for people who own fixed or floating weeks instead of the various points products. Redweek is headed by a top notch team. They have devoted a lot of time and energy to doing the research, developing their business model, and establishing important links with other companies in the field. I commend them for choosing DAE to handle an important piece of this program. I believe most of us consider DAE to be one of the few exchange companies that strives to treat their customers fairly and not be obsessed with greed.  

I submitted 14 weeks to Redweek for "valuation" and am very pleased with the results (which I received within a few hours of submission on the first day). I believe they are trying to be generous with these first offers to encourage deposits, as they need to build up inventory. I feel confident enough to give them some of my "tiger traders" and all of my so-so weeks right now.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 14, 2007)

jjking42 said:


> there website is really slow right now are all the tugger online at once
> 
> my values came back
> IPV 2 bed summer             1821
> ...



You should try Val Chatelle with RCI, but don't deposit until you see a need for weeks.  We deposited our weeks too early for summer 2008 and our trade power is horrible, but my understanding is that waiting until maybe the 9 month window, when they need inventory, you might be better off.  I am going to be very cautious with depositing my Val Chatelle weeks from now on.  I would love to own some ski weeks there, but the prices the owners charge are ridiculous.


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## jlwquilter (Jun 14, 2007)

*Flexibility*

What appeals to me is that I can get points (and use them to combine, split, etc.) for my fixed weeks that I can't get RCI points for - they are at RCI Point resorts but not coverted (and frankly I don't want them converted). And even better, I can get points one year and have my fixed week intact for the next year if I so desire. Best of both worlds as far as I can see for fixed week owners...if RW can deliver exchanges I want.

For example, I have a fixed week we are using this year but can't use next year due to other plans. With RW, I can deporit it, get points and use them with all the flexibiity points offer, but then the year after next, I have my lovely fixed week back! I can't do that with RCI.


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## NTHC (Jun 14, 2007)

One summer Massanutten 2 bedroom will give me 2017 points.  One would think that in the next 3 years I could find something acceptable as far as a trade. 

I personally like the way they put the points out there for everyone to see.  We have weeks available so I am going to give it a shot.

JMHO,
Cindy


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## Quimby4 (Jun 14, 2007)

2,000 Points for a Prime 2 bedroom at Riviera Beach Resort and Spa in S. Cal.
1,000 Points for a 1 Bedroom December at Palm Springs Tennis Club 1 bedroom

I would definetly consider doing it if I could find something to exchange into...Hopefully there will be more deposits to make this a successful program...


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## Miss Marty (Jun 14, 2007)

*Redweek Exchange*

*
The New Redweek Exchange Program *

Submit your information 
Get a Point Value for Your Timshare Week for Free
Receive an email with the point value within 24 hours.

Great way for Redweek to get all your t/s information 
What resort you own, which week, unit number, etc.
Name, email.  Looks like they are building a data base!


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## AnnaO (Jun 14, 2007)

*Lockoffs*



sfwilshire said:


> Be sure to split your lockoffs if you have them. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but it was something like 1br = 1400+, 2br=1900+, 3br combined only = 2400+.
> 
> I didn't see much interesting available yet, but I'm game if they start getting a good selection.
> 
> Sheila



Thanks, that was good advice. My Presidents week, 2 bedroom lockoff at Tahoe Seasons got 1534 points. After reading this, I resubmitted as one bedroom and got 1067. 

I wonder if splitting the units is a better strategy for renting as well?

As far as the exchange goes I found nothing in the US for week7. Then I tried Europe any time in the summer, but nothing that can sleep 5 showed up. Perhaps things will change.


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## jtridle (Jun 14, 2007)

*Points offered for Hawaii and Cayman*

I got an answer back from RW.  For my one bedroom Morritt's Tortuga Club in Grand Cayman, Sept. week, I would receive 1,130 points.  For my 3 bedroom One Napili Way on Maui, week 1, I would receive 3,451 points.  If you are saying that means they think I can rent my Cayman week at that time of the year for $1,130 or my Hawaii week for $3,451, they are mistaken.  I know I could not get that much.  ONW does not even rent out their units for that much to the public.  RW's offer seems very generous.  Like somebody said, maybe it will be overly generous in the beginning and become more realistic later, simply because they need the inventory now.  I hope RW can make a success of this.  It's very tempting.


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## KauaiMark (Jun 14, 2007)

*Time for "request first" option...*



Stressy said:


> I was waiting for a post exactly like this. I think your Marriott is a high value week. I submited my Maui summer week 6-11 to 6-18/2008 1 bd/2ba at a resort that is definitely inferior to Marriott and I received the same quote, 2000.



At this point, I think I'd be reluctant to exchange for points unless they had an option to do a "request first" option like II.


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## JudyS (Jun 14, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Submitted 2 weeks that I rent all the time:
> 2BR Week 51 ski week I've rented for $2,400 in the past and Redweek offered 2,321 RW points.
> Mini Suite Week 50 ski week that I’ve rented before for $1,000 and RedWeek offered 1,180 points.....





jtridle said:


> I got an answer back from RW.  For my one bedroom Morritt's Tortuga Club in Grand Cayman, Sept. week, I would receive 1,130 points.  For my 3 bedroom One Napili Way on Maui, week 1, I would receive 3,451 points.  If you are saying that means they think I can rent my Cayman week at that time of the year for $1,130 or my Hawaii week for $3,451, they are mistaken.  I know I could not get that much.  ONW does not even rent out their units for that much to the public....



Over on Timeshareforums, I said that I thought $1 per point was too high a value -- it looked like $.50 per point was a more reasonable value to me, based on the number of points they were assigning each resort.  After I saw PerryM's post, I was thinking that maybe I was just cheap!  But now, many of the points values that have come in since then seem very high to me.  few timeshares rent for above $1000, let alone above $2000 or $3000.  Perry, maybe they undervalued your weeks, relative to other weeks?


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## JudyS (Jun 14, 2007)

KauaiMark said:


> At this point, I think I'd be reluctant to exchange for points unless they had an option to do a "request first" option like II.


While they don't have a "request first," the current system does allow for "search first," since you can see all the other weeks available and their points values.  There is the problem, of course, that inventory is quite sparce right now......


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## e.bram (Jun 14, 2007)

Looks like everybody is wishfull thinking. RW will never get enough diverse inventory to get off the ground. Probably will end up with a bunch of white and blue weeks. In New England where I look they only have a handfull of TSs for saale or rent, all at unrealisticly high prices.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 14, 2007)

e.bram said:


> Looks like everybody is wishfull thinking. RW will never get enough diverse inventory to get off the ground. Probably will end up with a bunch of white and blue weeks. In New England where I look they only have a handfull of TSs for saale or rent, all at unrealisticly high prices.



They lack a person to call, which most exchange systems, if not all others, have in place.  That is the only downside I can see.  I think they will make a go of this and become a huge player in the exchange industry.  

Redweek already has 1,000,000 customers.  I would bet most of the smaller exchange companies would love to have that many potential exchangers.  I think Redweek was very smart.  They even followed the formula that some wise TUGgers dreamed up a while ago.  I remember the conversation about exchanges having different values, which could be done with a point system, and the idea of paying money to trade up.  Looks like they were watching.


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## e.bram (Jun 14, 2007)

Who is going to get the tradeup money? RW or the exchanger? I can guess? How long will the trade down exchanger tolerate that.
1,000,000 customers, where did you get that. They only have a handfull in New England. Less than Ebay.


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## PerryM (Jun 14, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> They lack a person to call, which most exchange systems, if not all others, have in place.  That is the only downside I can see.  I think they will make a go of this and become a huge player in the exchange industry.
> 
> *Redweek already has 1,000,000 customers.*  I would bet most of the smaller exchange companies would love to have that many potential exchangers.  I think Redweek was very smart.  They even followed the formula that some wise TUGgers dreamed up a while ago.  I remember the conversation about exchanges having different values, which could be done with a point system, and the idea of paying money to trade up.  Looks like they were watching.



I was searching for that 1 M customers - I remember reading it somewhere too.


I love the way folks look at a successful business and declare future projects a failure when they are a few days old.

Me, I'll go with a winner and assume they know what the hell they are doing unless evidence mounts that they are emulating RCI points.

Show me the evidence.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 15, 2007)

When I logged in to Redweek today, the main page had that 1,000,000 registered customers as I went to log in.  That is probably where you saw it, Perry.

e.bram, I don't know why Redweek would feel they would get the cash for the trade up, but most people are not going to pay that much money to trade up.  If they only valued my week at 2,500 points and I wanted something for 3,500 points, I would think long and hard before I paid that much for the upgrade.  Depositing another low MF week would be cheaper.


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## chemteach (Jun 15, 2007)

Results for a few of my units:
1581 for Country Club Villas 2 BR summer unit near Myrtle Beach
1000 for Peppertree Atlantic Beach 2 BR summer unit - NC beach
1150 for Aquamarine Villas 1 BR July 4th week - SoCal coastal

These are too low to even consider depositing as they get me weeks through II/RCI with which I have been happy.  I would be trading down with the latter two offers, and might possibly get an even trade with the first.  It's not worth the risk until RW has a proven track record or I see something that looks worthwhile to exchange into.  I'll stick with RCI and II for now.  When the big 2 no longer can get me the trades I want, I might consider RW.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 15, 2007)

They offered 2,421 for my ski week 1 in Fraser, Colorado. It is a two-bedroom.  I was pretty impressed with that.  Only 1,000 for a week 52 at Foxrun.


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## PerryM (Jun 15, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> *When I logged in to Redweek today, the main page had that 1,000,000 registered customers as I went to log in*.  That is probably where you saw it, Perry.
> 
> e.bram, I don't know why Redweek would feel they would get the cash for the trade up, but most people are not going to pay that much money to trade up.  If they only valued my week at 2,500 points and I wanted something for 3,500 points, I would think long and hard before I paid that much for the upgrade.  Depositing another low MF week would be cheaper.



Thanks, you are absolutely correct.

1 M customers and all the naysayers - where is their track record?

Will folks like me give up a cheap week that exchanges into an expensive week in II and deposit it in RW - not that week.  Not until II goes Points too.

But I should imagine folks will start to deposit units and start to shop around.  This will take time.  But with 1 M customers even 10% participation means 100,000 exchanges per year.  Big bucks for RW.

And this will just take exchanges from II and RCI.  The side effect could cause revenue to drop at II and RCI and thus increase in exchange fees.

Don't you just love it.

P.S.
If I were RW I’d keep the upgrade money since there will be enough “spoilage” of Points as folks have scraps and they expire worthless.

I’m assuming that you can’t transfer RW Points to another account or sell them on the open market.


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## Jennie (Jun 15, 2007)

Marty Giggard said:


> *
> The New Redweek Exchange Program *
> 
> Submit your information
> ...



I believe, but am not sure, that one has to already be a member of Redweek in order to receive a "Points value offer" for their week. Redweek already has the name, address, telephone number, and credit card number of their 1,000,000 + members that have come and gone through the years. They can also see what weeks each member has listed for rent or sale, and even which weeks the member has inquired about renting or buying from other Redweek members, since the first Email communication is sent out through Email (just as Ebay handles questions for sellers from "lookers"). In all my years of Redweek membership, as far as I know, I have never received any spam as a result of Redweek having access to, or sharing or selling, my personal information.

For a number of sound reasons, I really do trust this company.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Thanks, you are absolutely correct.
> 
> 1 M customers and all the naysayers - where is their track record?
> 
> ...




A customer is by definition someone who BOUGHT something from you.  Until they buy, they are merely a PROSPECT or LEAD.

1M people are REGISTERED users.  It is FREE to register.   It is impressive to have that many registered users because it isn't easy getting a million people to turn over anything personal.

Moreover, those 1M registered users are mostly NOT timeshare owners.  So, they are not even prospects for exchange.  They are prospects for rentals and resales.

I think about a year ago, I estimated that Redweek had about 30000 listings.  30000 is a better indicator of their potential customer base.  It's a lot lower when you net out brokers who will not be exchanging and people who are selling their weeks because they no longer use it.  In addition, some people are renting because they don't want to use their timeshare this year.  So, their customer base is actually a lot lower than 1M.  In fact, the addressable customer base is probably more like 10k.

10k is sufficient to start an exchange.  It depends on how many weeks they get to start the exchange system.  If some developers gave them 1000 weeks for deposit, that could kick start the system.


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## PerryM (Jun 15, 2007)

*DOA*



BocaBum99 said:


> A customer is by definition someone who BOUGHT something from you.  Until they buy, they are merely a PROSPECT or LEAD.
> 
> 1M people are REGISTERED users.  It is FREE to register.   It is impressive to have that many registered users because it isn't easy getting a million people to turn over anything personal.
> 
> ...



Good grief BB,

Everyone here seems to delight in declaring RW's competition to II and RCI Dead On Arrival - this sounds like our politicians who declare this on their competition all the time.  They get nothing done.

Someone show me some proof, just 4 days into their venture, where this project is already doomed.  No one here can with all this chest pounding.  So why bash Red Week for doing what everyone here demands - more competition?

But if it makes folks feel better....


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## theo (Jun 15, 2007)

e.bram said:


> The independant exchange companies have a larger customer list that Redweek. If they wanted to start a sales and renting classified they could email them. Thay know timesharing better than Redweek and could be up and running in a short time. The exchange business is a order of magitude more complex than a classified.



You may not be aware that the new RedWeek exchange program is also actually a partnership with Dial an Exchange (DAE), in which there will be shared services and shared inventory. In short, an "independent exchange company" is, in fact, an integral PART of the new RedWeek program right from the outset. Not waving any banners here, just adding a relevant fact.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

As the Caveman said, "what?"

I didn't declare them dead.  I simply put a more realistic view of facts that are thrown out on this message board.  I offered a reasoned explanation of the 1M registered users.  I provide clear logic for why that number is not relevant for this exchange.  You use it as the reason they will be successful.

It's you who are making bold, but unsubstantiated predictions.  You are declaring them winners after 4 days.  Most are hoping they will be successful (including me), but we are more tempered in our assessments.

I believe I am providing a balanced view of what this concept represents.
I have acknowledged that they have a great concept.  I have pointed out some of the challenges that they will face.  I have offered ideas for how they could address those challenges.  They will decide on solutions which they believe will be effective with or without my input.  The market and their execution will define their success.  I could be completely wrong in my assessments.  But, it does provide input to others who may be trying to evaluate their risk of trying out the system.


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## theo (Jun 15, 2007)

*Puzzled...*

Boca Bum: To whom / what post is your below quote directed? 
I'm puzzled...... (not an uncommon occurence, I admit). 



BocaBum99 said:


> As the Caveman said, "what?"
> I didn't declare them dead.  I simply put a more realistic view of facts that are thrown out on this message board.  I offered a reasoned explanation of the 1M registered users.  I provide clear logic for why that number is not relevant for this exchange.  You use it as the reason they will be successful.
> 
> It's you who are making bold, but unsubstantiated predictions.  You are declaring them winners after 4 days.  Most are hoping they will be successful (including me), but we are more tempered in our assessments.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

theo said:


> Boca Bum: To whom / what post is your below quote directed?
> I'm puzzled...... (not an uncommon occurence, I admit).
> 
> 
> ...


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## theo (Jun 15, 2007)

BB:
Got it, thanks. I was hoping that I hadn't somehow innocently entered a fray by merely pointing out DAE's involvement in the new RedWeek program, to someone else who seemed quite unaware of that "partnership" arrangement.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

e.bram said:


> Who is going to get the tradeup money? RW or the exchanger? I can guess? How long will the trade down exchanger tolerate that.
> 1,000,000 customers, where did you get that. They only have a handfull in New England. Less than Ebay.



I believe the trade up money will be used by Redweek to purchase inventory and reinject weeks into the system.  Redweek profits through the exchange fees.  If they pocket the trade up profit, then they will deplete the exchange inventory which will weaken the system.

Here's an example that may help illustrate this point.

Let's say that 1000 people deposit weeks worth exactly 2000 RW points each.  The total value of those deposits would be 2,000,000 RW Points.

RW would grant each of those 1000 owners 2000 points.  So, outstanding exchange credits equals 2,000,000 RW points.

Assuming that RW does a PERFECT job at assigning point values (which is highly debatable), then at the start of the system, there is no exchange imbalance since deposits = exchange credits.  2M points of inventory.  2M points of exchange credits.

Now, let's say that 1000 people do a search first exchange for those 1000 deposited weeks.  But, their weeks are only worth 1000 RW points each.  They will each owe RW $1000 each because they are taking out a 2000 point week and only depositing a 1000 point week.   

In this scenario, RW collects $125,000 in exchange fees ($125 * 1000 exchanges).  And, they collect $1,000,000 in trade up fees.

Now, let's look at the exchange balance sheet.  After these 1000 exchanges, the exchange system has 1000 weeks in it worth 1000 points each.  So, there are 1M RW points worth of inventory.  But, there are still 1000 depositers who have 2M RW points worth of credit.  So, there is an exchange imbalance of 1M RW points.

2M RW points chasing 1M RW points of inventory.  That is called inflation.

The way that RW can address this is by taking the $1M in trade up fees and acquire 1M RW points of inventory and reinjecting it into the system.  If they are smart about it, they can get great wholesale prices for weeks and not have to pay $1M for 1M worth of points.  Or, they could cheat by buying $500k of inventory and assigning it 1M RW points in value.

So, there is a lot of trust being placed in RW to assigned point values according to the real market price.  It would be very very easy to cheat.

Also, remember, timeshare intervals are perishable products.  If 10% of weeks expire without being exchanged, then the exchange base is depleted.  Redweek either needs to buy weeks to put into the system at a very effective rate, get developers to deposit free weeks or they need to over assign points and put them into the system.  Either way, the exchangers are placing their trust into the central bank of Redweek who assigns point values and manages the system.

The system works when it hits critical mass and it's customers trust that it isn't cheating.

I believe that publishing daily statistics on key exchange statistics would be important to building trust with depositers.  

Make no bones about it.  Redweek is creating a currency.  Their success or failure will be due in large part to their ability to manage these exchange balances.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

theo said:


> You may not be aware that the new RedWeek exchange program is also actually a partnership with Dial an Exchange (DAE), in which there will be shared services and shared inventory. In short, an "independent exchange company" is, in fact, an integral PART of the new RedWeek program right from the outset. Not waving any banners here, just adding a relevant fact.



I have stated that I believe the Redweek and DAE alliance is a good one.  They both have what they other doesn't have.  That makes for a good potential partnership.

What are those assets and skills.

Redweek doesn't have knowledge and expertise in managing an exchange company.  The business is dramatically different than operating a listing company.  DAE can bring that to Redweek along with thousands of deposited weeks.  And example is the process for locking in and securing a week so that a depositer doesn't take a week and either use and deposit it elsewhere.  There is actually a very important function called "cleaning and pressing" inventory to prepare it for exchange.  A listing company doesn't have that requirement and therefore the skill set needs to be acquired or developed.

DAE desperately needs a trading power system.  Today, their exchange model is anything in gets anything out.  What that ultimately leads to is a system that is riddled with dog weeks that nobody wants.  For those of us who have viewed the DAE inventory, you will see that characterization of its inventory as low quality is generous.  So, if Redweek can help them create a more effective trading power formula, it can make the DAE exchange system more viable long term.

So, DAE is sharing it's facility with Redweek and some "shared" inventory.  They are probably also sharing exchange revenue for shared exchanges.

Here is the issue.  DAE inventory is low quality.  So, it will probably have lower point values.  If people are trading down for that inventory, then the DAE shared inventory will be depleted at greater than a 1 to 1 rate.  So, they will be giving up more than 1 week for every week deposited.  As an example, if DAE puts 2 weeks into the system that are worth 1000 RW points and someone deposits a week worth 2000 points and exchanges for both DAE weeks, there is only 1 week left in the system and DAE gave up 2 weeks.  They have just created an exchange imbalance for their own system.

It will be very interesting to see how DAE manages in this enviornment their inventory.  The best way to play this system flaw would be to take very cheap dog weeks and deposit them into DAE.  Use their anything gets anything system to pluck out anything good.  Take that week you get out, deposit it into Redweek and pluck out your orignal week and more with the points you get.  Well, you have to pay the exchange fees, so it won't work well.  But, I think you get the point.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

Here is how Redweek's current strategy can work.  Perhaps they have this in place already.  If they do, It would dramatically increase my probablity of success.

I believe that Redweek can get to critical mass much more quickly if it can create affiliation agreements with 100 more resort developers.  They are very prominent at ARDA, so it may be possible for them to pull it off.  That is as long as RCI and II don't attempt to block such affiliations.

If Redweek can create an agreement where developers provide them with 100 free weeks each, they could have 10000 weeks in the system for exchange.  That would start it off with a very positive exchange surplus.  People will certainly want these exchanges, so they will deposit their weeks and increase the diversity of their exchange base.

Then, they could agree to pay the maintenance fee for other weeks they want to deposit.  Since many people will be trading up, they could use the trade up profit to pay for those weeks.

If they had this in place, they would be in an excellent position to win big with a new concept.

But then again, if I could get 100 developers to give me 100 free weeks and then all future weeks at the maintenance fees, I could probably make more money just renting all of those weeks and pocketing the profit.


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## bruwery (Jun 15, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Now, let's look at the exchange balance sheet.  After these 1000 exchanges, the exchange system has 1000 weeks in it worth 1000 points each.  So, there are 1M RW points worth of inventory.  But, there are still 1000 depositers who have 2M RW points worth of credit.  So, there is an exchange imbalance of 1M RW points.
> 
> 2M RW points chasing 1M RW points of inventory.  That is called inflation.
> 
> ...



Very sound analysis, Boca.  You have hit the nail on the head with the trust issue.  Let's assume for a moment that they do set up the business model where they use the trade-up fees to purchase inventory, and let the exchange fees flow to the bottom line as earnings.

As with any company, there's a great deal of pressure from month to month to hit a specified earnings target.  What happens in a given month if exchange revenue is below budget, or operating expenses exceed plan for whatever reason?

It's too easy to "borrow" from the trade-up cash.  Once that process starts, blammo, the system is out of balance and exchanging becomes more difficult because there's less inventory.

Now, I'm not saying that Redweek is dishonest, or has poor intentions, or anything like that.  I'm merely reinforcing Boca's point that it's very easy to cheat.

Redweek offered up 2,000 points for my 3BR Cypress Pointe for President's Week.  Based on the postings in this thread, that figure may allow me to pull some better trades through RW than I could through RCI - assuming some of the items submitted for valuation are actually being deposited.  I haven't actually done a search yet, though.  I'll ponder it over the next couple of days.

Onward and upward,

Mark


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## Mel (Jun 15, 2007)

If Redweek does a good job of assigning values, I can see this program doing well.  However, they would be doing it in a way very similar to what RCI is doing, but maybe being more honest about it.

As mentioned about, they have 1,000 weeks deposited, with a total 1M worth of points.  The owners of those weeks "buy" another 1M of points to get the weeks they want in exchange, for a total of 2M points, 1M inventory.  we've seen plenty of rental listings on Redweek, so if they don't have the week you want in the exchange inventory, they look to their rental inventory and use some of that cash to rent the week you want, and give it to you as an exchange.  

The tricky part is when they don't have a taker for YOUR week, going the other direction.  One would assume that at some point they will take your week and put it up for rent.  The question then becomes when is it fair for them to remove that week from the exchange pool and place it in the rental pool?  9 months out?  6 months?  Whenever they think they will get the best rental income from it?  I don't see it as that different than RCI renting out weeks - only we don't know if RW has accurate data on what weeks will or will not be used.  We might not trust RCI's data, or the way they use it, but we do know they have many years of data.

I'm assuming RW is basing their point values on likely rental costs.  If they are, and their data is accurate, they should be able to pull this off - but what about inflation?  Rental rates will go up year to year, will points values too?  If not, will the cost of buying extra points go up to compensate for increased rental costs?  For me, I'm happy with RCI right now; but RW is worth waiting to see.  Maybe they can blend the rentals and exchanges in a way that is fair to everyone.  Maybe it will become a good place to place moderate-demand week up for rent, if you know they are likely to offer a fair rental price to you to satisfy an exchange, since they will be making their money on the other end.  If that is in face their business model, I can see some taking advantage of it - rent their week to RW, and turn and use the cash to rent something they want, vs using their exchange program, and saving the exchange fee.  I'm not quite sure how they can prevent that, and how that may impact their program.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 15, 2007)

My idea of developer affiliations won't work.  The 100 developers won't work with Redweek because Redweek has a resale component that will serve to undermine the developers own sales efforts.


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## PA- (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't believe for a moment that Redweek has anywhere close to 1million customers, even though they put that on their website.  That may mean they've had 1million hits on their website at one time or another.  Remember, there was a time it was free to look.  TUG has been around for 15 years or so, and gets plugged in the news and all over the web, and they claim 17,000 members.  I bet they'd tell you that 2/3 of them haven't logged in in years.  

As for the success of their exchange program?  I wouldn't be as quick as Perry to think they'll succeed where few have.  There is little that makes me think they'll be a player in the exchange market, and they've failed before (remember their rental escrow program, or their direct exchange program).  On the other hand, what may mean success to us may be different than for them.  If their only cost is a few lines of computer code to offer this function, they may not have to do many exchanges to consider it a success.  But I think anyone giving up even a mediocre week is taking a big chance.  

As for the analysis that they seem to be giving 1 point for each $1 of rent that you could otherwise get, I think that's way high.  Obviously, anyone able to get $1500 rent isn't going to deposit that week for 1500 points, they'll take the rent.  Frankly, based on the numbers I've seen for the points they're giving out, I don't think they know what they're doing.  They don't seem to fit any demand/supply curve, based on rental potential.  Not to say they won't eventually figure it out.  And like I said, it costs them little, they've got nothing to lose.  I just can't imagine they'll get many exchanges, but we'll see.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 16, 2007)

I just looked at all of the available resorts for exchange.  I didn't see one resort on my list for potential exchange.  I suspect that much of this inventory is from DAE.  

For this concept to be successful, Redweek must get high quality inventory.

Perhaps it isn't Redweek's strategy to be a great listing / exchange company.  Perhaps they are just trying to create a technology that another company acquires.

I don't think that Redweek can be successful unless it proactively acquires inventory and plays matchmaker for exchangers.


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## ttt (Jun 16, 2007)

I deposited a 2008  2 BR North Readington Beach week 6 unit(TheIslander), and got 1267 points. I was offered 2013 points for Week 32, 2008 at Fairfield Westwinds, but don't know if I will deposit it or rent it. I don't think I could get $2000. as a rental.....


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 16, 2007)

ttt said:


> I deposited a 2008  2 BR North Readington Beach week 6 unit(TheIslander), and got 1267 points. I was offered 2013 points for Week 32, 2008 at Fairfield Westwinds, but don't know if I will deposit it or rent it. I don't think I could get $2000. as a rental.....




Here's a different question for you.  Would you trade your 2br North Reading Beach weeks 6 PLUS $746 in cash to get another week 3 Fairfield Westwinds?


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## PerryM (Jun 16, 2007)

*Alone again?*

I guess I’m the only person viewing the new exchange company with enthusiasm?  Oh well, I’m getting used to this.

If they say they have 1 M registered users I’m going to believe them – they have done nothing to cause me to doubt that figure.

Since I no longer discuss specific transactions on TUG, I am not going to state what I’ve done; this is no reflection on RedWeek’s program.

I, personally, think they have a fantastic idea and the market is ready for them.  Whether they screw up the implementation is another story.  

I do hope they get into fractionals and condo-hotels and RV’s and VRBO.  If I were RedWeek I’d hire a crew and have them sending notices to everyone on VRBO and invite them to the new exchange company.

Screw the developers; leave them out of the system – if they want in they are just normal users.


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## Carolinian (Jun 16, 2007)

One resort on the OBX requested a Redweek points chart for their resort and was told that it was not availible.  One had to request a point value through the computer system.

This may mean that the numbers are be regularly updated for changes in supply and demand.  If so that would be a good thing, but I'm sure that the points purists here would ultimately demand that such charts be made availible on the web, which could be done and regularly kept updated in that fashion.

It would also be useful to know the points at which numbers decline.  The key points for RCI are 1 year out and 6 months out.  Is it the same for Redweek?  Also do the numbers also decline at set points for inventory remaining in the system with a short shelf life?  If they are not doing this they are not being realistic about values.


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## squiggle (Jun 16, 2007)

It would be really nice if  just like the other point system ,  you can stay for a few days instead of the whole week.

For multiple resorts owners, the one advantage is one membership - if there will be enough believers and deposit  their resorts, then the inventory will increase. Wish I can take back the units "languishing" at RCI or the flexchange resorts at Interval -  they will go to waste even up to 2008.  at least w/  the RW points, you accumulate pts from all sources and you have the real possibility of getting something  someday not just in the 59 day window, regardless of value - only problem is the non believers won't deposit them.


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## chemteach (Jun 16, 2007)

squiggle said:


> someday not just in the 59 day window, regardless of value - only problem is the non believers won't deposit them.



Therein lies the catch-22.  Unless they get a large buildup of inventory that people want to exchange into, people will not put their high demand weeks in the system.  They really need some prime developer weeks to jumpstart the system.  If they could get that, others would likely deposit decent weeks.  But the deposited "pink" weeks could be combined to grab any prime weeks that are available.  

Also, they seem to be valuing weeks in strange ways.  Bright red coastal summer silver crown resorts that I own were offered very low point values compared to offers I see posted from other resorts that I often see sitting online at RCI.  For those of us who can plan in advance, RCI and II often work.  I am very happy right now with my trades in the big 2.  When that changes, I might need to try redweek.  But there is no reason to jump in when there is no track record.  It's pure speculation to deposit a week with them if you don't see something you want online.  There's no reason to deposit with them unless you are dissatisfied with all other companies that do have track records.


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## bruwery (Jun 16, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I guess I’m the only person viewing the new exchange company with enthusiasm?  Oh well, I’m getting used to this.



Just because some of us are viewing this with a critical eye doesn't mean we're not excited about it.  The fact that there are over 130 posts on this thread indicates that you're not alone.



PerryM said:


> If they say they have 1 M registered users I’m going to believe them – they have done nothing to cause me to doubt that figure.



They may have 1 M registered users.  But it's unreasonable to believe that the 1 M realistically represents the actual potential users.  The reasons why have already been explained in this thread.  There are some rather obscure channels on our satellite/cable TV systems that can claim millions of subscribers, but it's not reasonable to assume that every subscriber will ever even watch those channels.



PerryM said:


> Since I no longer discuss specific transactions on TUG, I am not going to state what I’ve done; this is no reflection on RedWeek’s program.



For someone with so much apparent confidence, you sure are sensitive.



PerryM said:


> I, personally, think they have a fantastic idea and the market is ready for them.  Whether they screw up the implementation is another story.



It is a fantastic idea.  On that, many of us likely agree with you.  You seem to be tempering your enthusiasm, however.  In posts 49, 50 and 51, you were anxious to declare them the king of the hill.  Now you're allowing for the fact that they might screw it up - which is basically the cautious approach most of us have taken and for which you've chastised us.



PerryM said:


> I do hope they get into fractionals and condo-hotels and RV’s and VRBO.  If I were RedWeek I’d hire a crew and have them sending notices to everyone on VRBO and invite them to the new exchange company.



Okay, if they get timeshares right.



PerryM said:


> Screw the developers; leave them out of the system – if they want in they are just normal users.



Absolutely correct.  Leave them out to reduce the possibility of corrupting the system.

Onward and upward,

Mark


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## ausman (Jun 16, 2007)

chemteach said:


> T
> 
> Also, they seem to be valuing weeks in strange ways.  Bright red coastal summer silver crown resorts that I own were offered very low point values compared to offers I see posted from other resorts that I often see sitting online at RCI.  .



Earlier in this thread I expressed the same thought. Now reading here again others are too.

The points valuation of weeks, given the examples, seem strange for some. The lockoff valuations being the easiest to say so.

I'm now wondering if there is some East Coast US lack of data if DAE is the engine.

As expressed before, hope they make it, if they do it will be without me at the moment.


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## PerryM (Jun 17, 2007)

*Say it with me: "Everything's going to be all right"*



bruwery said:


> Just because some of us are viewing this with a critical eye doesn't mean we're not excited about it.  The fact that there are over 130 posts on this thread indicates that you're not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Mark,

I hope you now feel better.

There's a guy on the TV show "American Inventor" and he has a great thing he invented and I guess is patenting - he calls it his "Therapy Buddy".  This thing is about 2 feet tall, looks like a blue egg with legs and when you press the toe it says in a weird voice *"Everything's going to be all right".*

Buy one; you seem consumed with anger and rage.  There - now I feel better too.

Buy it now on eBay

Just another public service announcement from ol' Perry.

Buy direct from the inventor.  Click the "Hear my Voice" button for a message that will make your day.

Trust me, many here, not just Mark, needs this toy///invention.


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## Pit (Jun 17, 2007)

I hope they succeed. I'm in favor of more choices for owners.

I like that it costs me nothing to search their available exchange inventory. If I find something I want, I can make the requisite deposit and get what I want. Very owner friendly - kudos to RW.

So far, I haven't seen anything I want in their inventory, but I'll keep looking.


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## PeelBoy (Jun 17, 2007)

I am excited with Redweek.  The following benefits are too appealing:

1. Deposit my prime week in advance to stretch it to 3 or 4 weeks off season within 6 months or so.

2. Destinations not easily found either in II or RCI: Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, South East Asia and South Africa.  I love international destinations.

3. Exchange fees much cheaper than RCI.

I will deposit one week and immediately grab one week in California and 2 weeks in Bali.  No other exchange companies can offer the same.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 17, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Hey Mark,
> 
> I hope you now feel better.
> 
> ...



Hey Perry,

I think we are all rooting for Redweek to be successful.  I think we are just trying to be realistic instead of pollyanna about their prospects.

The point of view I am coming at it is from an investors points of view.  If I were going to invest in Redweek, how would I evaluate their future based on what I see now.   In other words, an industry analyst's point of view.

There aren't many board members who would accept "Everything's going to be all right" from it's CEO.  That ended when the great stock market bubble of 2000 burst.  Investors of all types are much more careful with their funds.

No matter what the track record is of a given CEO, if they are looking for venture funding, they are getting asked the questions I am asking.  

Now, if Redweek is fully funded by cashflow from Redweek or by its founders, then at least they won't have to deal with the pressures of those financiers.  But then, they care a lot more about the cash flow of the company and they will be likely asking these questions of themselves as they wake up at 3 am everyday wondering about various decisions they have made for the business.
Nothing beats it.

Go Redweek.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 17, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I am excited with Redweek.  The following benefits are too appealing:
> 
> 1. Deposit my prime week in advance to stretch it to 3 or 4 weeks off season within 6 months or so.
> 
> ...



I think this is a great reason to use the service given its current inventory.   If you want 3 or 4 weeks for 1 and you want to travel in Europe or the Pacific and you don't care about resort quality, this could work extremely well for you.

This created a new question in my mind.  I checked out all of the resorts in the system and I found it quite lacking in terms of availability for anything that I would personally want.  In fact, in reviewing it, it reminded me a lot of DAE.  I wonder if most of this inventory is "shared" inventory from DAE.  Remember, DAE is weak in the US and strong in Europe and the Pacific.  That is reflected in the inventory currently available.

This creates a reverse issue for DAE and/or Redweek.  I wonder how they will 
address it.  Let me explain the issue.

Let's say that our friend peelboy deposits a prime myrtle beach week and he takes out 4 weeks in return all from "shared" DAE inventory.  In Redweek's methodology, that is an equal trade.  In DAE methodology that is a 4 for 1 trade which doesn't work in their put one in, take one out accounting.

There is a trade imbalance created by such a 4 for 1 trade somewhere.  Who eats it?  DAE members?  Or, does Redweek give DAE 4 weeks back and Redweek owners eat it?  I think I'll post a question on "ASK DAE"


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## chemteach (Jun 17, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I am excited with Redweek.  The following benefits are too appealing:
> 
> 1. Deposit my prime week in advance to stretch it to 3 or 4 weeks off season within 6 months or so.
> 
> ...



Redweek could be GREAT for people who can travel off-season.  Right now, it  won't work for most people who can only travel during school breaks.  But if people like you deposit prime weeks, others might see those prime weeks and deposit their prime weeks.  My concern is that they are offering some very high point values for resorts / times that sit online at RCI, and much lower point values for resorts / times that disappear immediately from RCI.  That suggests they need to look into their point valuations a little more closely.

I hope Redweek is a huge success!  I'd like to have more options.


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## e.bram (Jun 17, 2007)

From reading these boards. it seems that everyone wants to deposit blue. white or pink weeks and exchange for prime bright crimson weeks. Who is depositing these red weeks to exchange for lesser weeks. Where are the prime weeks goinig to come from. 
Also, most of the Redweek ads I see are not for prime weeks, and the few that are , are grossly overpriced.


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## Pit (Jun 17, 2007)

PeelBoy is supplying the red weeks, and many others who would use the same strategy, thereby consuming all those off-season weeks that would otherwise sit empty.


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## e.bram (Jun 17, 2007)

How amny tuggers want to go to Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, South East Asia and South Africa. Your get a better deal getting an all inclusive package including airfare and tours than doing it yourself even with ts accomodation.


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## Makai Guy (Jun 17, 2007)

PA- said:


> TUG has been around for 15 years or so, and gets plugged in the news and all over the web, and they claim 17,000 members.  I bet they'd tell you that 2/3 of them haven't logged in in years.



Minor quibble...

That's 17k (now 18k, actually) people that have registered as users of the bbs since we went to vBulletin bbs software in 6/05.   It has nothing to do (at least not directly) with the size of TUG's membership.

Your point that they might not all be active is very valid.  In the stats at the bottom of the bbs home page, "Active Registered Users" is the number of accounts that have logged into the board in the last 60 days -- running around 4k right now.

I'd expect TUG membership figures to be much smaller than that 18k.  We've never had the number with the correct code into their bbs profile to indicate they were TUG members over 7k or so at any one time, and with the old, recently replaced system, that would include people whose TUG memberships had long expired.

The number with the current BBS Member Code in their bbs profiles is now running around 2.4k.   In addition, there are over 4k that still have the outdated 'time' value in their bbs profiles but have not even logged into the bbs since 'time' became obsolete.  There are many TUG members that use mainly the reviews and never come to the bbs at all, though, so the bbs numbers don't tell the complete story.

Far as I know, TUG doesn't routinely release membership information anywhere.


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## PerryM (Jun 17, 2007)

*I'm still long*



e.bram said:


> From reading these boards. it seems that everyone wants to deposit blue. white or pink weeks and exchange for prime bright crimson weeks. Who is depositing these red weeks to exchange for lesser weeks. Where are the prime weeks goinig to come from.
> Also, most of the Redweek ads I see are not for prime weeks, and the few that are , are grossly overpriced.




This is a great point.  Many of us, including me, have become so spoiled at raiding II and RCI with crazy upgrades that it's hard to view a Point system with anything but skepticism.

However, fear not campers, you can deposit a white, blue, whatever bottom of the barrel you own AND get to Maui for Christmas!

You just need a lot of the bottom feeders to do this and build up your points.  This is the beauty of this system.

What will it take for the Christmas Maui guy to NOT rent his week but deposit in RW for Points?  I don't think it's going to be that hard once the system starts rolling along for a while.  Renting is very hard for many folks to do - they just don't like doing it.

I just have a great feeling about this, which if I were to buy RW the stock I'd go Long.  I would not go short.  But I can't back up my feelings with anything concrete - neither can any of you at this point.

So if we had a poll I'd vote "YES" I will/would consider depositing a unit - this would go with my feeling on the subject.  (Mind you this is a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical poll)


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## jjking42 (Jun 17, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You should try Val Chatelle with RCI, but don't deposit until you see a need for weeks.  We deposited our weeks too early for summer 2008 and our trade power is horrible, but my understanding is that waiting until maybe the 9 month window, when they need inventory, you might be better off.  I am going to be very cautious with depositing my Val Chatelle weeks from now on.  I would love to own some ski weeks there, but the prices the owners charge are ridiculous.



I was happy wioth the 1821 points but !!!!!
I searched every state in the us for an exchange with redweek.
I only own 2 bedroom red weeks. I only deposit two bedroom red weeks. I have children in school and am not flexible with thier schedules . I cant use white weeks.

I could not find a single 2 bedroom exchange in the summer 2008 that i wanted . But if they have inm\ventory i will use them. for now i cant.


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## Stressy (Jun 17, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> This created a new question in my mind.  I checked out all of the resorts in the system and I found it quite lacking in terms of availability for anything that I would personally want.  In fact, in reviewing it, it reminded me a lot of DAE.  I wonder if most of this inventory is "shared" inventory from DAE.  Remember, DAE is weak in the US and strong in Europe and the Pacific.  That is reflected in the inventory currently available.



Sure it is. Silver Lakes Vacation Club in Helendale, Ca has 67 exchange weeks available on Redweek. DAE is a virtual dumping ground for this resort...and I use that term resort loosely 

I do like the new search function I see today. I put in California and a page came up with everything available right in front of me.....no more seaching place by place.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 17, 2007)

PerryM said:


> This is a great point.  Many of us, including me, have become so spoiled at raiding II and RCI with crazy upgrades that it's hard to view a Point system with anything but skepticism.
> 
> However, fear not campers, you can deposit a white, blue, whatever bottom of the barrel you own AND get to Maui for Christmas!
> 
> ...



Perry,

This post explains a lot to me about your many investments.


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## PeelBoy (Jun 18, 2007)

I have clicked the button to deposit my Myrtle Beach 2 bedroom with Redweek.  I will keep watching if Redweek will ask for more points than I get (2017) for this July 4 week. It is interesting to see how soon this week will disappear and if it stays how soon RW will drop the point requirement.

I know I am taking a risk which is part of the excitement of timeshare exchange.


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## PerryM (Jun 18, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I have clicked the button to deposit my Myrtle Beach 2 bedroom with Redweek.  I will keep watching if Redweek will ask for more points than I get (2017) for this July 4 week. It is interesting to see how soon this week will disappear and if it stays how soon RW will drop the point requirement.
> 
> I know I am taking a risk which is part of the excitement of timeshare exchange.



OMG; someone taking the plunge without hoards of units to exchange into.

Let us know how it goes, especially before the end of business tomorrow, 6/19/07 if you can!  

Best of luck,

Thanks

P.S.
What do they want next?  A copy of the reservation or what?


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## geekette (Jun 18, 2007)

e.bram said:


> How amny tuggers want to go to Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, South East Asia and South Africa. Your get a better deal getting an all inclusive package including airfare and tours than doing it yourself even with ts accomodation.



Clearly you don't want to go, but, there are some of us interested in seeing the Entire World.  I'm sure tours are great for some people, but no way I'm gonna be herded around on buses with 50 other people.  I've got roots in Scotland, what tour will take me by the ancestral home??  My SIL is Australian - which tour shall I book to see all the inlaws?

You can take the expensive/crowded/overscheduled tour, I'll book the more economical ts + air and do my own thing once I get there, thanks.


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## ttt (Jun 18, 2007)

Do you all think Classmates.com is a successful operation?? These folks plunked down millions to buy redweek from the founders. I think they know the risks, have the web experience & are learning the marketplace. With millions upset with RCI, I think it is a great idea for a willing marketplace. Will redweek have as much inventort as RCI or II?? Probably not for a long while, but RCI started with a phone line & an index card file of exchange possibilities. Customer service(Lack of) & greediness will kill off RCI & leave the door open for a thriving redweek & DAE.


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## chellej (Jun 18, 2007)

I for one have invested a lot of time into my timeshare strategy - everything from what to buy to where each week will get me the best results based on each exchange companies quirks.

My Island Park 1 bedroom, 4th of July week RW offered me 1280 points.  For me, that is too low so I will not deposit it with them.  I have in the past deposited it with RCI, II, SFX and Trading Places.  I get the best results with RCI - so they will continue to get it until another exchange company does better.

I have other weeks that I purchased just because of the results with II.  I have also exchanged with DAE & Interchange in Australia. I use the exchange companies intelligently - getting the best trade I can.  If RW gets the inventory I want & gives me reasonable value I'm all for more options.


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## PeelBoy (Jun 18, 2007)

10 hours after my deposit, I have not seen my (now their) Myrtle Beach week.  They have to re-confirm my deposit with my resort, though I can book any of their inventory now.

Proceeded to book a week in San Francisco for January.  This week disappeared from me on Saturday and it resurfaced this late afternoon.  Click the reserve button.  The next screen says on hold by somebody else.  Re-click but it disappeared again.  It seems competition is there for inventory.  There is another San Francisco week in December, but airfare is too expensive near Christmas.

I am seeing more weeks and more resorts.  There are hundred of weeks in Australia, every where from Queensland to Victoria.  It is time to learn Australia geography.

The problem is some of these resorts cannot be found in Tug resort reviews. Trip Advisors have limited information about them.  Where can I find reviews to select the best resort?

More homework!!!!!


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## PerryM (Jun 18, 2007)

*Cancellations...*

Cancellation policy:
*"If you need to make changes to your reservation, or cancel completely, we will make every effort to accommodate you, but will be unable to credit your exchange fee or the RedWeek Points paid for the week, unless you have purchased the Cancellation Protection Option (CPO). 

With the Cancellation Protection Option (just $25), offered at the point you make the reservation, you can cancel your reservation up to 24 hours before check-in, if necessary. Your account will be credited the RedWeek Points you originally paid for the reservation, and can be re-used up until their original expiration date. Your exchange fee, while not refunded, will be applied to your next exchange reservation, provided you book within 24 months of cancellation. You will need to repurchase CPO to have it apply to your next exchange."*

Someone just alerted me to read RW's cancellation policy - Holy Cow!

Buy their Cancellation Protection Option for $25 and you can cancel up to 24 hours before check-in and get back ALL your Points which resume their original expiration time.  You also get back your exchange fee by having it applied forward 2 years to the next exchange.

Ok, so now who's going to bellyache about this fantastic policy?


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## jjking42 (Jun 19, 2007)

*Real person answered my email about lack of 2 bedroom red weeks in the usa.*

Hi Jim, 

Thanks for your feedback.  We hope to expand our notification feature shortly to allow you to specify date ranges you are interested in for certain resorts and areas.  We will announce this in a newsletter, so please watch out for it.  Sounds like that would help with your planning.

Thanks,
Kylie 

[jimking@cjsales.com - Mon Jun 18 14:51:43 2007]:

> i am very interested in your program but i need 2 bedroom sleep 6 red 
> summer for the usa. i have kids in school. That's what i deposit and 
> that's what i need to get back i could not find any suitable exchange 
> on the entire list
> 
> when you have more inventory i will gladly deposit
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Jim King
> C J Sales
> 972-234-5761


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## Jennie (Jun 19, 2007)

ttt said:


> Do you all think Classmates.com is a successful operation?? These folks plunked down millions to buy redweek from the founders. I think they know the risks, have the web experience & are learning the marketplace. With millions upset with RCI, I think it is a great idea for a willing marketplace. Will redweek have as much inventory as RCI or II?? Probably not for a long while, but RCI started with a phone line & an index card file of exchange possibilities. Customer service(Lack of) & greediness will kill off RCI & leave the door open for a thriving redweek & DAE.



Here's a link to the section of the Redweek web site that lists the credentials of the gentlemen who own/operate Redweek. They were the original founders of Classmates.com. After developing and growing Classmates into a very successful web-based company, they sold it for big $$$$$ and moved on to create Redweek.com:

http://www.redweek.com/about/staff#conrads


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## PA- (Jun 19, 2007)

Perry, nobody is bellyaching about anything.  We were having an adult conversation.  You seem a little over-anxious about this.  They may succeed, they may not.  Do we have to jump up and down and get as excited as you obviously are, or can some of us watch with skeptical interest before declaring them brilliant?


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## Carolinian (Jun 19, 2007)

That's been DAE's cancellation policy for a long time.




PerryM said:


> Cancellation policy:
> *"If you need to make changes to your reservation, or cancel completely, we will make every effort to accommodate you, but will be unable to credit your exchange fee or the RedWeek Points paid for the week, unless you have purchased the Cancellation Protection Option (CPO).
> 
> With the Cancellation Protection Option (just $25), offered at the point you make the reservation, you can cancel your reservation up to 24 hours before check-in, if necessary. Your account will be credited the RedWeek Points you originally paid for the reservation, and can be re-used up until their original expiration date. Your exchange fee, while not refunded, will be applied to your next exchange reservation, provided you book within 24 months of cancellation. You will need to repurchase CPO to have it apply to your next exchange."*
> ...


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## PerryM (Jun 19, 2007)

PA- said:


> Perry, nobody is bellyaching about anything.  We were having an adult conversation.  You seem a little over-anxious about this.  They may succeed, they may not.  Do we have to jump up and down and get as excited as you obviously are, or can some of us watch with skeptical interest before declaring them brilliant?



Hey PA, grow a thicker skin!

Isn't that what you tell everyone?


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## PA- (Jun 19, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Hey PA, grow a thicker skin!
> 
> Isn't that what you tell everyone?



My heart rate is the same as always.  I'm not angry.


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## rsackett (Jun 19, 2007)

I offered a Marriott Manor Club two bedroom, July 4th week 2008.  They offered me 2017 points.

Given the Marriott priority I have with II, the fact that I would most likley get an AC, and the large inventory I get with II, I will stick with II.  If Redweek gets a large inventory in the future I will reevaluate.

Ray


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## PerryM (Jun 19, 2007)

*Guest certificates?*

So here's a question:

How does RW handle guest certificates if there is a charge by the resort?

I'm assuming that RW get's a guest certificate with the name of the exchanger on it.  If it's the policy of the management company to charge $25 or so for a guest certificate how would RW handle this?  I'm assuming that there has got to be one timeshare that charges for this.

I did not see this as a separate, billable, item in their description of the new exchange rules.


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## PA- (Jun 19, 2007)

PerryM said:


> So here's a question:
> 
> How does RW handle guest certificates if there is a charge by the resort?
> 
> ...



All the fees charged by timeshares that I've heard of are collected directly from the exchanger when they check in.

DVC charges a fee, but it's collected at checkin.  Likewise, I've heard of island timeshares that charge for utilities, and I've heard that some timeshares charge cleaning fees to exchangers, but in those cases they collect at checkin.

Another question that pops to mind, how does redweek verify that the room will be available when the exchanger checks in?  Is there safeguards to make sure that the person hasn't also deposited it to RCI, or that the person is current on fees?  And if there is a snafu, does Redweek have an emergency number to call, and will they try to make other arrangements for you?


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## PeelBoy (Jun 19, 2007)

PA- said:


> Another question that pops to mind, how does redweek verify that the room will be available when the exchanger checks in?  Is there safeguards to make sure that the person hasn't also deposited it to RCI, or that the person is current on fees?  And if there is a snafu, does Redweek have an emergency number to call, and will they try to make other arrangements for you?




DAE is doing the verification for Redweek.  I have deposited my week, which has not shown in RW inventory list, because DAE has to contact my resort to verify my deposit.

We are talking about trust.  Your concern can happen to RW, DAE, TPI, RCI or II.

If you don't trust, don't exchange.


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## PA- (Jun 19, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> DAE is doing the verification for Redweek.  I have deposited my week, which has not shown in RW inventory list, because DAE has to contact my resort to verify my deposit.
> 
> We are talking about trust.  Your concern can happen to RW, DAE, TPI, RCI or II.
> 
> If you don't trust, don't exchange.



Yes, you are correct.  That's the hurdle RW has to get over.  II and RCI are known quantities, trusted because the developer's support them and have contractual agreements with them that DAE doesn't.

In the case of properties that have exclusive agreements with RCI or II, the management companies would violate their contracts if they verify ownership to DAE.


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## PeelBoy (Jun 19, 2007)

PA, you are shooting all independents, not just RW.  I guess lots of tuggers trust these independents; otherwise DAE, SFX, TPI won't last that long.

I don't worry about verification, but the right resort at the right time.  During lunch break, I read all tug resort reviews of Australia.  I will focus my search on Queensland.

My theory is I will get one week in Australia via RCI, II or DAE, but will get two plus via RW.  Why not?


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## Carolinian (Jun 19, 2007)

PA- said:


> Yes, you are correct.  That's the hurdle RW has to get over.  II and RCI are known quantities, trusted because the developer's support them and have contractual agreements with them that DAE doesn't.
> 
> In the case of properties that have exclusive agreements with RCI or II, the management companies would violate their contracts if they verify ownership to DAE.



To the contrary, they would violate the rights of their members if they failed to do so, and this would be actionable in the courts under the consumer protection laws of most states.

The standard language of RCI contracts on exclusivity does not specifically cover verification, although some may want to interpret it that way.  In any event, however, all of that exclusivity language almost certainly violates anti-trust laws, so RCI will never try to enforce it.

Further, management, whether a management company or a hired manager, is not who has the contract with RCI or II in the first place.  It is the HOA or developer that does.


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## BocaBum99 (Jun 19, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> PA, you are shooting all independents, not just RW.  I guess lots of tuggers trust these independents; otherwise DAE, SFX, TPI won't last that long.
> 
> I don't worry about verification, but the right resort at the right time.  During lunch break, I read all tug resort reviews of Australia.  I will focus my search on Queensland.
> 
> My theory is I will get one week in Australia via RCI, II or DAE, but will get two plus via RW.  Why not?



Peelboy,

Have a great time in Australia.  Let us know how it works out for you.


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