# Are there major problems at Wyndham Oceanwalk?



## littlestar (Feb 27, 2011)

I read this review over at timeshare forums and it's very troubling.  It said evidently Wyndham has lost control and management of the north tower.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/timeshare-reviews/115696-review-wyndham-ocean-walk.html

How many other Wyndham's are mixed use?


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 27, 2011)

I think this is more of a Daytona issue imho. Someone posted an article from either the Daytona or Orlando paper about how bad it's gotten. Who knows the whole owners are probably of an age where they don't want a pool or lazy river. My sister's HOA here has factions on who wants to pay for snow removal(how many inches before we call) and grass watering in the summer.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140008

It says a lot when I look at packages for Speedweeks or 4th of July race and they always include hotels in Orlando and they bus you over.

We up to Daytona 2 yrs ago when we were at Vero Beach to see the track and museum(which has closed). I don't think I would stay there.

PS-any Oceanwalk owners probably know this but the 2012 Daytona 500 has been moved back a week. It won't be Sunday of President's Day weekend.

Due to the fact the NFL may go to a longer season, but we know they need a new labor contract first which negotiations are stalled.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> I think this is more of a Daytona issue imho. ..
> 
> any Oceanwalk owners probably know this but the 2012 Daytona 500 has been moved back a week. It won't be Sunday of President's Day weekend...



Yes, basicly disclosed when this year's attendees were checkin/out of their various hotels this year! What a cluster-f$%* for the OceanWalk owners who booked the "normal" time 30 days earlier, making those points virtually worthless as cancelled reservation points for all of 2012 (90 day booking usage). And what about Bike Week dates which follows 'THE 500'? 

The Chamber of Commerce had BiketoberFest listed for the wrong weekend two years ago.  

As for the North Tower whole unit owners and the lawsuit - it is ongoing.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 27, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Yes, basicly disclosed when this year's attendees were checkin/out of their various hotels this year! What a cluster-f$%* for the OceanWalk owners who booked the "normal" time 30 days earlier, making those points virtually worthless as cancelled reservation points for all of 2012 (90 day booking usage). And what about Bike Week dates which follows 'THE 500'?
> 
> The Chamber of Commerce had BiketoberFest listed for the wrong weekend two years ago.
> 
> As for the North Tower whole unit owners and the lawsuit - it is ongoing.



The announcement of the move of the D500, was last weekend to the surprise of many of the NASCAR press that I follow on Twitter. And there are usually one or 2 of them that "hear something before hand".

Since we get a 4 day weekend for Pres Day, I was thinking about booking something in Orlando, and hitting the Truck race Friday night. Oh well back to plan B, skiing up in Michigan again.

Looks like the Shootout might be Pres Day weekend, but they didn't announce anything. Some are speculating NASCAR will cut down the length of Speedweeks.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

I heard about the change at the MCO airport on President's Weekend Monday from a race fan who was waiting for their plane home. I got a bump on Southwest for a decent credit ... did little to improve my disbelief that a major (and the season's kickoff) Nascar race could just be move because of the Super Bowl?  

Wasn't that 3 day Holiday Weekend in mid-January still open or good enough for another football game?   How long can they possibly make the Football season and expect players to be ready to play after shorter & shorter offseason break? And does this change when the 'ProBowl" is played?

OR maybe, the NFL/AFL owners need more time to plan their big event a little better after the Dallas' seat problem.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 27, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> I heard about the change at the MCO airport on President's Weekend Monday from a race fan who was waiting for their plane home. I got a bump on Southwest for a decent credit ... did little to improve my disbelief that a major (and the season's kickoff) Nascar race could just be move because of the Super Bowl?
> 
> Wasn't that 3 day Holiday Weekend in mid-January still open or good enough for another football game?   How long can they possibly make the Football season and expect players to be ready to play after shorter & shorter offseason break? And does this change when the 'ProBowl" is played?
> 
> OR maybe, the NFL/AFL owners need more time to plan their big event a little better after the Dallas' seat problem.




Besides avoiding the SB, this will get rid of that rather stupid off week they have in mid March. I know it goes back to the Nationwide race in Mexico City(trying to get Cup guys down there), but silly to have an off week 3 events in.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> Besides avoiding the SB, this will get rid of that rather stupid off week they have in mid March. I know it goes back to the Nationwide race in Mexico City(trying to get Cup guys down there), but silly to have an off week 3 events in.



As for having an off week 3 events in or having the THE 500 on a Holiday Weekend, let NASCAR put another race on the schedule for the down week.

Truly, this is about TV draw and market share (IMHO). Nascar has been losing market share and attendance has been down due to various reasons (age of racers, age of attendees, THE ECOMONY, major sponsors, regional base, etc). The winner of this year's race could breathe new life into this aging "sport" IF he wins or places very well during the season. Fluke? The fluke was his car _just_ didn't have a sponsor, but he has been well schooled and showed enough promise - someone paid for that car and entrance fee. A wreck or two got him into the winner's circle, but he didn't just drive off RT 17-92 onto that oval in his street rod.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 27, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> As for having an off week 3 events in or having the THE 500 on a Holiday Weekend, let NASCAR put another race on the schedule for the down week.
> 
> Truly, this is about TV draw and market share (IMHO). Nascar has been losing market share and attendance has been down due to various reasons (age of racers, age of attendees, THE ECOMONY, major sponsors, regional base, etc). The winner of this year's race could breathe new life into this aging "sport" IF he wins or places very well during the season. Fluke? The fluke was his car _just_ didn't have a sponsor, but he has been well schooled and showed enough promise - someone paid for that car and entrance fee. A wreck or two got him into the winner's circle, but he didn't just drive off RT 17-92 onto that oval in his street rod.



I think moving it from the holiday weekend is a big mistake, from a logistic and yet another move from tradition that really seems to bother old time fans. A lot of fans haven't forgiven the Big Wigs for moving the Labor Day race from Darlington to Fontana. Maybe they've gotten a few back by moving it to Atlanta. 

 Could Trevor be the next Jeff Gordon or the next Derek Cope? Who knows?


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2011)

*Mixed use often a problem. Different goals for owners*



littlestar said:


> I read this review over at timeshare forums and it's very troubling.  It said evidently Wyndham has lost control and management of the north tower.
> 
> http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/timeshare-reviews/115696-review-wyndham-ocean-walk.html
> 
> How many other Wyndham's are mixed use?



Trying to steer this thread back on subject there is a serious problem at Oceanwalk. There are many other (dozen or more?) Wyndham resorts that are only partially timeshare and share buildings with whole owners and/or hotels.  

This conflict with whole owners who don't usually care about resort amenities is ongoing in many areas where the two co-exist.  Not all are Wyndham by any means.  Who pays for what is usually a big problem area. 

This is also a big potential problem for mega-resorts that way over-develop costly things like water parks. Once the developer finally sells out & stops supporting them the owners will get sticker shock as to how much they cost to operate and maintain. OLCC, Wastegate and a few others come to mind for that issue.  

Best to stick with owner controlled, reasonably sized resorts that have been built out (not forever expanding which kills value in a number of ways) and that offer reasonable amenities for their size.  The minute mixed use and over development kick in there are big problems brewing down the road IMO.  Oceanwalk a classic example it seems.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> I think moving it from the holiday weekend is a big mistake, from a logistic and yet another move from tradition that really seems to bother old time fans....



I went to college in that particular neck of the woods. My NJ uncle who never seemed to go on vacation showed up at my college, because he was at the race (went every year, unknown to 18yo me). And that was before Disney opened. And 2011 is Disney's 40th year of operation. 

I fully agree - traditions may not be a number included by calculation of a MBA, but due to the sudden nature of this change, it must have been one very unhappy business meeting when it was shovelled downhill.


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2011)

> making those points virtually worthless as cancelled reservation points for all of 2012 (90 day booking usage)


Cancel points can't be used for ARP, but they can be used for Standard (10 month) bookings.


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## Twinkstarr (Feb 27, 2011)

bnoble said:


> Cancel points can't be used for ARP, but they can be used for Standard (10 month) bookings.



That could put a crimp in someone's plans to book a week for the race. Which seems why people own at Oceanwalk. The only time it seems to be booked up is anytime a race is going on over at DIS(Daytona Int'l Speedway).


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Trying to steer this thread back on subject there is a serious problem at Oceanwalk. ...
> Best to stick with owner controlled, reasonably sized resorts that have been built out (not forever expanding which kills value in a number of ways) and that offer reasonable amenities for their size.  The minute mixed use and over development kick in there are big problems brewing down the road IMO.  Oceanwalk a classic example it seems.



John, 
Oceanwalk's biggest problem is its location - Daytona Beach. If you haven't been there in the past few years, you can't understand how bad the whole area is. I live in NJ which has its share of old shore towns - the seedy underside of Atlantic City, Asbury Park, etc with chronic unemployment, halfway houses, condemned buildings, hurricane damaged oceanfront old motels, welfare motels, empty storefronts, Broadwalk beggars, etc. For some strange reason (man-made maybe more so than climate, IMHO), Daytona Beach should be next door to Atlantic City vs Palm Coast, Gold Coast, Cocoa Beach, etc. There is no way that the Hilton Hotel or Oceanwalk Resort can be standalone destinations on a Florida beach with extremely limited dining and shopping without getting into the car and driving thru a rundown, closed, shabby and boarded up neighborhood block after block - it is not a return place memory generating vacation destination. There is a whole lot of nicer places in Florida. Therefore, in my opinion, ANY timeshare in Daytona Beach has issues with keeping its owners paying and happy ... Oceanwalk full share condo owners are just more visible.

And if Oceanwalk was in Pompano Beach, it would be totally different. In my opinion.


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## Free2Roam (Feb 27, 2011)

*I guess i'll be changing my plans for the family summer vacation*

I visited Ocean Walk not too long after it opened....it was a nice property.  I thought it would be nice to take the kids this year. I'm definitely changing those plans.


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## WeLovetoTravel (Feb 27, 2011)

We stayed at Ocean Walk from Dec 25- Jan 2 this year. Our room was clean. You could tell it was recently renovated. One outdoor pool was open, the indoor pool was open. The tiki bar was closed. I don't know if it's permanently closed or if it was just too cold outside to open it. Yes we could really tell the area is very economically depressed. It sure has changed in the last 10 years. We were there to visit with family for the holidays and had a great time. I agree that there are nicer areas to stay in Florida, but I have no complaints about our stay at OW. The staff was very friendly and accomodating, the grounds were well kept, and the room was in good shape. We stayed in a 3BR.
-Deb


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

Was the lobby bar open? If so, then the TIKI bar might have been closed for the cooler season.


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## WeLovetoTravel (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes the lobby bar and the restaurant were both open


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> John,
> Oceanwalk's biggest problem is its location - Daytona Beach. If you haven't been there in the past few years, you can't understand how bad the whole area is. I live in NJ which has its share of old shore towns - the seedy underside of Atlantic City, Asbury Park, etc with chronic unemployment, halfway houses, condemned buildings, hurricane damaged oceanfront old motels, welfare motels, empty storefronts, Broadwalk beggars, etc. For some strange reason (man-made maybe more so than climate, IMHO), Daytona Beach should be next door to Atlantic City vs Palm Coast, Gold Coast, Cocoa Beach, etc. There is no way that the Hilton Hotel or Oceanwalk Resort can be standalone destinations on a Florida beach with extremely limited dining and shopping without getting into the car and driving thru a rundown, closed, shabby and boarded up neighborhood block after block - it is not a return place memory generating vacation destination. There is a whole lot of nicer places in Florida. Therefore, in my opinion, ANY timeshare in Daytona Beach has issues with keeping its owners paying and happy ... Oceanwalk full share condo owners are just more visible.
> 
> And if Oceanwalk was in Pompano Beach, it would be totally different. In my opinion.



You make a very valid point and it is part of the issue (but so is the mixed use part). In fact the development of Oceanwalk was at least in part to "improve" a more than slightly seedy area - one that may draw Oceanwalk down to it's level rather than Oceanwalk raising the quality/desirability of the property. It was a ral risk and Oceanwalk may have lost the bet.

If it was in Pompano Beach it would be a premier resort IMO.  As it is it is a troubled resort heading the wrong way.  Too bad for owners and those of us who liked it for a visit or two.


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## joestein (Feb 28, 2011)

We stayed there in 2006 and LOVED it.  We always talk about going back.  What a shame!

But what another poster said is correct.  The Oceanwalk area is beautiful and the rest of the town is a dump and then some.

The funny thing is that I always see people complain that Wyndham controls the boards, but when I have heard about the boards taking control away from Wyndham, I often see negative results follow.

I am thinking about this property and the bluebeard castle(not sure if that is the right resort) fiasco.

Peronally, I do not think it is to anyone's benefit to let amenties rot.

Joe


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 28, 2011)

joestein said:


> We stayed there in 2006 and LOVED it.  We always talk about going back....But what another poster said is correct.  The Oceanwalk area is beautiful ...
> Joe



Hi Joe,
*GO BACK!* Eat at the nearby restrauants. Yes, you might feel that you are just one family, but *you would be just one MORE family on vacation VS one FEWER family not there. *

Shop at the BRICK & MORTAR stores which are in business year round. Go a tour; buy a tee-shirt with a local historical site. People travel overseas to help under-developed countries and their economies. Here you have safe water, no passport required, few Subways (and other chains). Have you or your family toured a Historic Black College - just a mile or so away from OW? Or the first settlement in the US (70 miles away). Or the space center (south by an hour)? Or the oldest college in FL (just 25 minutes away) - which has an excellant law school (trial lawyers)? Or a town which for years was a spiritual camp for palmists?

Just a suggestion...


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## Trinity524 (Feb 28, 2011)

Being new and being an Ocean Walk owner has me worried about this.  What is the worst that happens?  Let's just say it all goes to the wasteside.  What is the absolute worst thing that can happen?  Would they transfer my points elsewhere?  Or do they send me a letter saying, sorry, you no longer have a timeshare?


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2011)

Trinity524 said:


> Being new and being an Ocean Walk owner has me worried about this.  What is the worst that happens?  Let's just say it all goes to the wasteside.  What is the absolute worst thing that can happen?  Would they transfer my points elsewhere?  Or do they send me a letter saying, sorry, you no longer have a timeshare?



They cannot simply terminate your timeshare rights there without proper notice, options, etc. But the resort could turn into a poor stepchild - as happened at Bluebeards - and while you still have ownership, points & use it is at a location that virtually is orphaned. Not a great thing but it wouldn't affect your legal ownership only the desirability of that ownership and lessen the already low resale value even more. 

Hope for everyone's sake that they get this straightened out - an abandoned lazy river in the middle of an already less than perfect resort setting doesn't help anyone and two warring Associations are never a good thing.


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## Trinity524 (Mar 1, 2011)

Forgive me for being silly, but why am I paying maintenance fees for a pool that doesn't work?  I know, silly question.  Seems there would be some type of recourse for that.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 1, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> - an abandoned lazy river .



John,
Is the lazy river working?


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## rrlongwell (Mar 1, 2011)

Trinity524 said:


> Forgive me for being silly, but why am I paying maintenance fees for a pool that doesn't work?  I know, silly question.  Seems there would be some type of recourse for that.



The deeds and related paperwork at the time of sale would need to be reviewed.  I would suspect that part of the responabilities of the Property Owners Association would be to perform maintance.  A attorney would need to review the paperwork.  If their is a violation, I do not know if a attorney would take it on a contingency basis or not.  You could probably get a free or negligable cost review.  The Bar Association in Flordia I think has a referral service that the initial review was something like 15 dollars.


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2011)

*It's closed now*



vacationhopeful said:


> John,
> Is the lazy river working?



Reports from multiple sources as of last week say NO. It is roped off, closed & "green" (not in an environmentally correct way). What will happen going forward or exactly why it was shut down isn't entirely clear. It could be a physical (repair) problem that simply needs new parts. It could be a purposeful shutdown of the costly amenity by the controlling Association (the whole ownership condos NOT the timeshare Association controls it) or kind of a combination where it has broken and the Association refuses to pay to repair it. 

Unfortunately there is very little information being given out - none from the staff on site as to the status - and Wyndham has a rather poor history of relations with Associations they don't hold control over.  They tend to play the heavy and get into costly, drawn out litigation that often seems to end badly.  It isn't a good sign for OW.


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2011)

*They own the land - they control the features there*



rrlongwell said:


> The deeds and related paperwork at the time of sale would need to be reviewed.  I would suspect that part of the responabilities of the Property Owners Association would be to perform maintance.  A attorney would need to review the paperwork.  If their is a violation, I do not know if a attorney would take it on a contingency basis or not.  You could probably get a free or negligable cost review.  The Bar Association in Flordia I think has a referral service that the initial review was something like 15 dollars.



It seems that the portion of the property that is home to the lazy river isn't under the control of the timeshare side. As long as the whole owner side has control and doesn't charge the timeshare owners to operate/maintain the lazy river they are most likely within their rights to shut it down.  

This is an all too common problem when two, unrelated owners Associations with different priorities decide to share facilities. Someone actually owns and controls it - they get the final say.  Things are all sweet when the fancy new amenity gets installed at developer expense and "only" the maintenance/operation cost is the Associations responsibility.  But once the bills start coming in there can be those that "don't use & don't want" various features and if they have control can and do shut it down or even remove it.  It is very hard to get equal say for two groups & even harder to get them to 100% agree on what is needed and what is a luxury.  

In this case whole owners probably don't use a lazy river much and as they are both the owners of the property and the majority of units ultimately it may be their call as to the fate of the lazy river.  Again, not a good thng for the timeshare owners that already have fewer amenities than many resorts and an area that isn't the best either.  Hopefully this will be worked out but right now it doesn't look good.


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2011)

*Whole owners bailing is hurting the project*

UPDATE: 

I happen to have a customer/friend who actually owns more than 10 units (whole ownership) at Oceanwalk.  He says the Association has voted to close the lazy river and some other common features under their control. This is a direct result of the bad economy hurting many of those owners who bought mostly to rent for income.  He says the values of the units have plummeted and fees are being cut to try to avoid more delinquencies.  Apparently the whole owner side is not happy, have serious debt issues and are looking to save every dollar they can. He admits it may be shortsighted as further deterioration can't possibly help keep resale values up but the bigger probem is the growing amount of defaults.  He kinda crowed for years about what a great investment it has been (vs the non-investment / lack of resale value of the timeshares) but now says he & his partners are looking to bail ASAP to hopefully stop the financial bleeding. They only managed to rent about 2/3 of the available time last year and took a huge loss overall.  The bloom is gone for both sides now.


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## ldw (Mar 1, 2011)

We have an exchange at Ocean Walk coming up in May, so I am really disappointed to find out how bad things are going there. Does anyone know what other amenities they are planning to close?


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## Trinity524 (Mar 1, 2011)

While I understand that the pool is a huge expense, they still are making money off that building.  Example- I just bought resale on ebay, looked on the public records and saw 9 months ago my contract was $27,000.  Now to be perfectly honest, I see alot of foreclosures and property going back to Wyndham, but how is Wyndham going to sell that property and no pool?  I didn't have a burning desire for Daytona, but I have family in Palm Coast, so I figured I should own where I wouldn't mind staying if I had to.  I suppose it's just weird to hear about it going under when you know they own so many units.


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2011)

Trinity524 said:


> While I understand that the pool is a huge expense, they still are making money off that building.  Example- I just bought resale on ebay, looked on the public records and saw 9 months ago my contract was $27,000.  Now to be perfectly honest, I see alot of foreclosures and property going back to Wyndham, but how is Wyndham going to sell that property and no pool?  I didn't have a burning desire for Daytona, but I have family in Palm Coast, so I figured I should own where I wouldn't mind staying if I had to.  I suppose it's just weird to hear about it going under when you know they own so many units.



It certainly isn't going to help sales , which have been greatly curtailed anyway by heavy staff reductions. But the key is they do not control that feature. The lazy river is located on a part of the property that has majority control by the whole unit owners not the timeshare owners. While they do hold a great number of units it is less than the whole owners hold thus control lies outside of Wyndhams influence. 

It is a big problem and this is far from the only resort that suffers from this type of basic conflict between Associations.  Everyone always wants control but only one ultimately does. Usually that is the side that holds the property rights for the area/amenity in question.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 2, 2011)

Trinity524 said:


> While I understand that the pool is a huge expense, they still are making money off that building.  Example- I just bought resale on ebay, looked on the public records and saw 9 months ago my contract was $27,000.  Now to be perfectly honest, I see alot of foreclosures and property going back to Wyndham, but how is Wyndham going to sell that property and no pool?  I didn't have a burning desire for Daytona, but I have family in Palm Coast, so I figured I should own where I wouldn't mind staying if I had to.  I suppose it's just weird to hear about it going under when you know they own so many units.



Is Wyndham taking title or the Property Owner's Association on the timeshares?


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 2, 2011)

I spent over an hour looking up realtor ads and viewing pictures of full-share units for sale. Everyone of the ads had OLD furnishings, white cabinets and appliances, and old TVs. One had there rentals figures to show how much they received for the 2008 year . Yes, original everything. The one bedroom only unit had two double beds in bedroom vs a king.

I called one realtor (cell number in ad and the cheapest listing) and his only question was, "Are you paying cash? There is no financing available for this building." Requested I send him an email as he was on the road. My email response from him was "Are you paying cash? There is no financing ..." without answering ANY of my questions in the email.  That's ok, as I asked him on my phone call, if that was because of the outlanished lawsuit going on - twice. Said it was because it was condo-hotel; yet another ad, bragged that FOR SALE unit could be lived in year round and homesteaded.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 2, 2011)

Trinity524 said:


> Now to be perfectly honest, I see alot of foreclosures and property going back to Wyndham, but how is Wyndham going to sell that property and no pool?  I didn't have a burning desire for Daytona, but I have family in Palm Coast, so I figured I should own where I wouldn't mind staying if I had to.  I suppose it's just weird to hear about it going under when you know they own so many units.



That sales force was pretty good at selling and making the rental option look like a winner. People brought to rent for all the events. But it takes 2 years to get into the cycle of ARP bookings for events. The past 2 years event rentals have been very soft. Cheap motels are good enough when money is tight. Plus, when schedules/dates change - ARP advantages are worthless. 

Owners have been dumping big packages for better than 2 years. 400K in pts for $50 or less. But you have to be Platimum for the upgrades and some free Guest Certificates. And you have to manage your points aggressively, IMHO.

Foreclosures would reflect that "owning timeshares is not a for profit rental business which will pay your buy in costs, MFs, ads, and family vacations".


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Is Wyndham taking title or the Property Owner's Association on the timeshares?



That would depend on what account was past due. If it was the purchase loan then Wyndham or the finance company would be foreclosing & taking title. If it is only the fees that are delinquent then the Association would be the one taking foreclosure action.  If both are past due then the primary lien would be the purchase cost & thus Wyndham/finance company would go after those.


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 2, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> It certainly isn't going to help sales , which have been greatly curtailed anyway by heavy staff reductions. But the key is they do not control that feature. The lazy river is located on a part of the property that has majority control by the whole unit owners not the timeshare owners. While they do hold a great number of units it is less than the whole owners hold thus control lies outside of Wyndhams influence.
> 
> It is a big problem and this is far from the only resort that suffers from this type of basic conflict between Associations.  Everyone always wants control but only one ultimately does. Usually that is the side that holds the property rights for the area/amenity in question.



John,

Is this one reason for the "pro" side of developer controlled HOA boards? If Wyndham was in charge, I doubt they would be shutting down amenities. 

Jason


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> John,
> 
> Is this one reason for the "pro" side of developer controlled HOA boards? If Wyndham was in charge, I doubt they would be shutting down amenities.
> 
> Jason



No, it would have to be a "con" side of sharing amenities. No matter who has control of management (and in this case it IS Wyndham) they cannot overrule the Association that holds control over the property in question (in this case the lazy river).  

Cindy has posted a great deal about similar problems with her small, northern resort and the conflicts between the whole owners & the timeshare side.  Even when two timeshares share things problems can arise as each group has their own priorities (and costs) that don't necessarily line up with each other.  Then conflicts arise. It is very tough to get the sides to fully agree especially when costs get spread to both.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 2, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> John,
> 
> Is this one reason for the "pro" side of developer controlled HOA boards? If Wyndham was in charge, I doubt they would be shutting down amenities.
> 
> Jason



Actually, the judge in the $50 million lawsuit GAVE the fullshare owners the checkbook to run the HOA ... Wyndham lost that point in a ruling several months ago.
Wyndham is appealling that partial ruling; fullshare owners claimed as there was no access to records, they didn't know what was being paid, if it was rightfully due as a bill to be paid, etc.


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 2, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> No, it would have to be a "con" side of sharing amenities. No matter who has control of management (and in this case it IS Wyndham) they cannot overrule the Association that holds control over the property in question (in this case the lazy river).
> 
> Cindy has posted a great deal about similar problems with her small, northern resort and the conflicts between the whole owners & the timeshare side.  Even when two timeshares share things problems can arise as each group has their own priorities (and costs) that don't necessarily line up with each other.  Then conflicts arise. It is very tough to get the sides to fully agree especially when costs get spread to both.



John,

I know it's not a pro. I just thought I would try and rib you a little bit...  

Jason


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## Maurie17 (Mar 2, 2011)

*Daytona Ocean Walk Lazy River*

Just received a phone call from Wyndham regarding an upcoming reservation at Ocean Walk and the recording said that the lazy river was closed due to mechanical failure. Guess they wanted to get their version of the truth out there before owners and guests arrived especially since this is a big weekend coming up with Bike Week.
Maurie


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## siesta (Mar 2, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> John,
> 
> I know it's not a pro. I just thought I would try and rib you a little bit...
> 
> Jason


 jj, stay on John's good side. when Westgate finally files for bankruptcy, he is going to throw one hell of a party.


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> John,
> 
> I know it's not a pro. I just thought I would try and rib you a little bit...
> 
> Jason



You got me - I bit!  Thanks for the laugh


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## rrlongwell (Mar 2, 2011)

Maurie17 said:


> Just received a phone call from Wyndham regarding an upcoming reservation at Ocean Walk and the recording said that the lazy river was closed due to mechanical failure. Guess they wanted to get their version of the truth out there before owners and guests arrived especially since this is a big weekend coming up with Bike Week.
> Maurie



Or because they do not want complaints of misrpresentation.  Just thought the people interested in this tread take a peek at what is currently showing for Amenities on the Wyndham Vacation Resorts site.

Amenities
2 Outdoor Swimming Pools
Lazy River & Water Slide
Beach
3 Outdoor Hot Tubs
Game Room
Indoor Miniature Golf
2 Indoor Swimming Pools
“Get Out & Play” Activities Program
Exercise Equipment
Restaurant
Live Entertainment


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## timeos2 (Mar 3, 2011)

*What they deed is what is supposed to be available*



rrlongwell said:


> Or because they do not want complaints of misrpresentation.  Just thought the people interested in this tread take a peek at what is currently showing for Amenities on the Wyndham Vacation Resorts site.
> 
> Amenities
> 2 Outdoor Swimming Pools
> ...



Interesting thought.  There are very strict laws regarding things sold on a deeded basis (although expressed in points the underlying deed / UDI at all Wyndham resorts are based on the home property).  If it is a scheduled item of features sold as part of the property removing it or closing it without ownership approval is a risky move.  In theory they could be forced to build/operate a new one on the property IF a strong owners group sued for specific performance on the deeded rights granted.  It's unlikely of course but could happen.  More $$ potentially wasted in either legal battles, additional construction required or both.  This isn't a minor change/upgrade from an outdated/obsolete VHS player to a DVD player that most owners would accept without a fight. This is a major feature suddenly gone after being promised and delivered at least for awhile.  It's not good.


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## Jan&Ern (Mar 5, 2011)

*Lazy River/Slide Closed*

I just got notified this week by RCI the slide and lazy river will be closed through April 1. We check in on 3/19 but don't typically use either of these when lounging around the pools. I didn't see in this thread why they are closed but it is troubling. I thought they might be closed due to the crush of guests at the resort during spring break. We've stayed at OW numerous times and always enjoyed it. I hope things haven't gone downhill!


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## jjmanthei05 (Mar 5, 2011)

Would it be possible for the other tower to take over the lazy river if the whole ownership side didn't want the it but the timeshare portion did?

Jason


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## timeos2 (Mar 5, 2011)

*Share and sahre alike doesn't always work so well*



jjmanthei05 said:


> Would it be possible for the other tower to take over the lazy river if the whole ownership side didn't want the it but the timeshare portion did?
> 
> Jason



Possibly but then the full - and substantial - cost of operation/maintenance would fall on the relatively small number of timeshare owners vs all owners as it is now.  Plus they would have to agree to allow an easement for access and agree to if or how whole owners and their guests/renters would or would not have access to that feature. Can you imagine trying to police the use of a feature like that for those allowed and those not and the hard feelings that would create? 

As usually seems to occur the idea of sharing expensive elements is attractive at first and a great selling point. But as the realities of ongoing operations and maintenance costs become known it is often a point of contention between Associations.  It's just the nature of the beast.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 5, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Possibly but then the full - and substantial - cost of operation/maintenance would fall on the relatively small number of timeshare owners vs all owners as it is now.  ...



 Do not know what is happening at that resort, but there was talk of a lawsuite.  My guess is most of the documents addressing the lazy river and pool and all related issues are probably public record through the court at this point.  That would probably include the agreements between the POAs, the developers, Wyndham, etc. that are currently in force or were in force.  If both groups got to use the pool and lazy river in the past, my guess is there is or were agreements.  Found the two following paragraphs on the internet (different articles).

"Not now. The Board is suing Wyndham Vacation Resort and Wyndham Vacation Management, and the Management Company is suing the Board. The experience shows that when people are so involved in litigation, little has been done. Wyndham was very protective and the 5-member board used to have 3 members from Wyndham and only two representing so called whole owners. Last election the Board effectively disqualified 2 candidates from the election and ended with 4 members from the owners and 1 member from Wyndham, who also soon was replaced, though I do not have a clue why and how it happened."

The complaint alleges that Wyndham, which managed the condominium association, misused association money and staff for the benefit of their timeshare expenses. According to Craig Jackson, President of the association and banking executive, “We believe that our association is owed a significant amount of money due to the actions of Wyndham. What is hard to believe is that even though the board of directors fired them as our management company, Wyndham refuses to give us control of our bank account, bank records or financial information.” The lawsuit not only alleges that Wyndham misused association funds for their own benefit, but also claims that Wyndham hired an unlicensed manager to manage the association in violation of Florida law."

In another place one of the above articles indicated that Wyndham had their own board and the two boards did not reconize each other.

Third article extract:  "The association countered that lawsuit by alleging Wyndham, which is a part the world's largest timeshare
company, was required to pay a fee for use of the facilities. The association said $10,000 a day was reasonable and demanded the company pay the fee or cease its operations at the resort."  The association being referred to is the South Tower one and not the North Tower one.


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