# HGVC New Point structure



## kdorward (Sep 1, 2006)

In the recent Grand Times there was an article "Points in Perapective".  I was wondering if anyone had any comments on this.  It doesn't sound good for existing owners.  They are going to include the unit that you own in deerming point values needed.   They say for existing properties won't be any change.  But they are talking about new propertites using this concept.   It sounds like existing owers points won't be worth as much at the newer resorts????


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## gshipley (Sep 1, 2006)

kdorward said:
			
		

> In the recent Grand Times there was an article "Points in Perapective".  I was wondering if anyone had any comments on this.  It doesn't sound good for existing owners.  They are going to include the unit that you own in deerming point values needed.   They say for existing properties won't be any change.  But they are talking about new propertites using this concept.   It sounds like existing owers points won't be worth as much at the newer resorts????



That is the impression I got as well.  Seems like my 7000 points will be under valued at the new resorts.   I guess we will have to wait for the pricing charts to come out though.


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## Sooby (Sep 1, 2006)

I missed this artcle and can't find my Grand Times- which doesn't sound so grand to me!!  I was thinking a buying a few more this next year to add to my points but now I'm not sure I will do this and will not recommend to my friends to buy.  When is this coming out and how can I get more information.  Thanks, Sooby with 7000pts a flamingo


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## MattnTricia (Sep 1, 2006)

*Point Structure*

My guess is that it will be similar to the new Waikoloa Beach. There are very few 7000 point weeks available. Most units are either 8400 or 9600. To me this is tough to justify when 8400 and 9600 have the same view and are only different in furnishings. IMHO, this is especially tough to fathom when the view is of the golf course and not the Ocean.

With that being said I would spend the extra points in a heartbeat to stay at the new resort to have use of the neighboring facilities.


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## Sooby (Sep 1, 2006)

What are the 7000s like with no view? Are the furnishings different between the 7000 and the 8400s? The other thing that they seem to be doing is not having many one bedrooms which for many of us it is all that is needed.


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## kdorward (Sep 1, 2006)

Thats great, HGVC finally starts to get more resorts and our points won't be worth as much anymore.   It sounds like the "Next Generation Resorts"  will take more points from the older resorts to exchange into.   It seems like they will have alot more options at the new resorts(daily maid services,complimentary food and beverage, better furnishings)  Has anyone heard anything on how these new points will work


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## PClapham (Sep 2, 2006)

added question: re Club Intrawest-so HGVC owners can exchange only for a week rather than a few days?
Anita


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## dvc_john (Sep 2, 2006)

PClapham said:
			
		

> added question: re Club Intrawest-so HGVC owners can exchange only for a week rather than a few days?
> Anita



I would assume so.
Currrently, elite members can exchange into CI. The point schedules for all CI resorts are for weekly stays. No daily schedules are shown. I'm assuming that that won't change.


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## timeos2 (Sep 2, 2006)

*New does cost more*



			
				kdorward said:
			
		

> In the recent Grand Times there was an article "Points in Perapective".  I was wondering if anyone had any comments on this.  It doesn't sound good for existing owners.  They are going to include the unit that you own in deerming point values needed.   They say for existing properties won't be any change.  But they are talking about new propertites using this concept.   It sounds like existing owers points won't be worth as much at the newer resorts????



Of course the new locations will cost more points. Can you build your home or a condo for the same price now as in 1998 or 2002? Are land costs the same now?  Either they move to less desirable locations, cheapen up the units and constuction or they admit that the newer units are more expensive to build and charge more in both purchase cost and points for use. 

The same type of thing is mentioned quite often in the Fairfield system. Some claim that it's points inflation. It's not. It is a natural creep up if you expect to have new resorts and place to use. It's a big reason why buying the bare minimum for what you want today isn't a good long term plan unless what is available for those points today is all you ever want.


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## cds62 (Sep 2, 2006)

The new HGVC system is similiar to how DVC has been doing it for years. As they have built new resorts or added special views such as at Boardwalk Villas the points have increased for those resorts. If you look at DVC the points are lower for Old Key West and Saratoga Springs but more the others. I own in both systems, HGVC and DVC and this is an understandable approach to new resorts.


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## Steve (Sep 2, 2006)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> Of course the new locations will cost more points. Can you build your home or a condo for the same price now as in 1998 or 2002? Are land costs the same now?  Either they move to less desirable locations, cheapen up the units and constuction or they admit that the newer units are more expensive to build and charge more in both purchase cost and points for use.
> 
> The same type of thing is mentioned quite often in the Fairfield system. Some claim that it's points inflation. It's not. It is a natural creep up if you expect to have new resorts and place to use. It's a big reason why buying the bare minimum for what you want today isn't a good long term plan unless what is available for those points today is all you ever want.



This is the best argument I have seen in favor of a traditional weeks based system like what Marriott currently has.  For example, my platinum Manor Club week will trade into any of the new Marriotts...including Hawaii, Newport Coast, etc.  I don't have to pay more...either in terms of purchase price or maintenance fees...to get into the new Marriott properties.  If you own at a very high quality older resort, you are better off in a weeks system than a points system.  

Call it what you like, I consider higher points values for new resorts to be points inflation.  

Steve


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## alwysonvac (Sep 2, 2006)

*I guess we'll have to wait and see*

I'm just happy that the new resorts will be available to existing HGVC members. Hopefully the new point structure will mean a slightly higher point level and not twice as many points. For example, a 5 or 6 night stay (for the existing gold and platinum point levels) instead of the 7-night stay.

By the way, they also mentioned some program changes in the 2007 Club Member Guide (see below)



> from the Fall 2006 Grand Times
> Page 2
> "...From all parts of the world, Members look for value and simplicity in the Club; and Members want to maximize their membership benefits. We're hearing that you don't want to be "nickel-and-dimed" and you would like us to provide ways to make your points go further.
> Our Club management team is focused on addressing your feedback, We're looking forward to presenting some exciting program changes in the 2007 Club Member Guide (slated for distribution this December). We are confident that these changes address the preferences of our Club membership, while maintaining our high level of customer service......"
> ...


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## timeos2 (Sep 2, 2006)

*Fixed weeks guarantee noting but your fixed week*



			
				Steve said:
			
		

> This is the best argument I have seen in favor of a traditional weeks based system like what Marriott currently has.  For example, my platinum Manor Club week will trade into any of the new Marriotts...including Hawaii, Newport Coast, etc.  I don't have to pay more...either in terms of purchase price or maintenance fees...to get into the new Marriott properties.  If you own at a very high quality older resort, you are better off in a weeks system than a points system.
> 
> Call it what you like, I consider higher points values for new resorts to be points inflation.
> 
> Steve



I doubt you'll be regularly able to trade into the exact time, unit, resort you want using weeks - even with Marriott preference.  If, as rumored, they head to their own points system the weeks side will whither away as it did over time with FF when they made that switch.  Certainly an occasional trade of an older but still quality week can be made into a newer resort but not almost on demand as it can with points.  I agree that a quality older week may be slightly cheaper with the possibilty of a trade now but over time that will become less and less likely for a number of reasons.  There is a price for the flexibility of points but, so far, the additional benefits far outweigh the small difference if I compare 7 day for 7 day trades. If I consider the added choices of various ways to extend the points unavailable to a 1 for 1 system they are actually cheaper most years.  

Both have their place and neither are the perfect answer for everyone.  Thats why people buy and prefer one or the other.


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## spike (Sep 2, 2006)

*WOW*

For those of you who haven't gotten your Grand Times, some of these resorts are super upscale. WOW. Just WOW.

http://www.waldorfastoriacollection.com


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## alwysonvac (Sep 2, 2006)

spike said:
			
		

> For those of you who haven't gotten your Grand Times, some of these resorts are super upscale. WOW. Just WOW.
> 
> http://www.waldorfastoriacollection.com



The Waldorf Astoria Collection falls under much higher HHONORS point structure (see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24721)


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## Sooby (Sep 2, 2006)

*Elite????*

So this doesn't sound so great for the present Elite status.  Are they going to have Elite Plus and Elite Premier? This definitely says to me that you better like the place you've purchased because trading could be costly.  :annoyed:


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## CaliDave (Sep 2, 2006)

I don't mind getting new locations that cost more points. 
It's better than having only a few resort areas to choose from. You
don't have to trade into these new locations. 

Also, I would rather pay 20% more points and have a great resort in Maui. 

It better than going the way of Worldmark and buying up some cheap resort in the middle of nowhere to dilute the point system.


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## alwysonvac (Sep 4, 2006)

Sooby said:
			
		

> So this doesn't sound so great for the present Elite status.  Are they going to have Elite Plus and Elite Premier? This definitely says to me that you better like the place you've purchased because trading could be costly.  :annoyed:



It seems the elite membership qualification criteria may change. I'm assuming the minimum number of points may increase with the introduction of the next generation of properties. Based on the "Use of Terms" statement (see below) in the Elite Membership Guide it's unclear whether the existing Elite members would be grandfathered if the criteria changed.



> *My old Elite Membership Guide states under "Terms of Use" on the Elite Membership Details page*
> ....._Elite membership benefits, services and qualification criteria may change from time to time at the sole discretion of HGVClub. HGVCLub reserves the right to change, suspend or terminate Elite Membership services or benefits at any time_


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## jjking42 (Sep 4, 2006)

CaliDave said:
			
		

> I don't mind getting new locations that cost more points.
> It's better than having only a few resort areas to choose from. You
> don't have to trade into these new locations.
> 
> Also, I would rather pay 20% more points and have a great resort in Maui.




i agree completely


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## reddiablosv (Sep 4, 2006)

OK, so I pose the question?  If you had the money and the use for it.  And you were offered a TS worth 7000 annual pts. at a HGVC affiliate on the Big Island for $8600 plus approx. $450 in closing costs, would you go for it??  Ben


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## CaliDave (Sep 4, 2006)

reddiablosv said:
			
		

> OK, so I pose the question? If you had the money and the use for it. And you were offered a TS worth 7000 annual pts. at a HGVC affiliate on the Big Island for $8600 plus approx. $450 in closing costs, would you go for it?? Ben



Yeah, thats a great deal, I would buy it.  Even though maint fees are $200 more. It will take 20 years to make up the extra cost to buy in Vegas


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## Pronkster (Sep 4, 2006)

Is there ever a chance that the affiliates will no longer be part of HGVC?  Even though they are much cheaper to buy, not knowing the answer to this question keeps me from buying one.  Anyone have any insight on this?


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## CaliDave (Sep 4, 2006)

Pronkster said:
			
		

> Is there ever a chance that the affiliates will no longer be part of HGVC? Even though they are much cheaper to buy, not knowing the answer to this question keeps me from buying one. Anyone have any insight on this?



I guess it could happen.. I think Bayclub would be the least likely to ever pull out. The new Hilton built resort is pretty much on the same site.


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## jjking42 (Sep 5, 2006)

I dont think that the sw florida affiliates will be dropped. they are very high demand locations and well maintained. The colorado location is also excelent.

I am interetsed to see what the new marriott will look like on Marco.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 11, 2006)

CaliDave said:
			
		

> I guess it could happen.. I think Bayclub would be the least likely to ever pull out. The new Hilton built resort is pretty much on the same site.


Just at the new HGVC next to the Bay club and I asked that question. "Have any affiliates ever been dropped?" 

The answer was a bit of a surprise. The TS saleman said that since there are no HGVC resorts near any of the affiliates that they will not likely be dropped. But the Bay club may be dropped as the new HGVC at Waikoloa grows. 

The current HGVC is only about 20% of the total resort planned. the next developement will be 1/4 mile down the road, on the far side of the golf course and include a huge water park/pool. AS HGVC grows, the need for Bay club may lessen meaning that HGVC may drop the bay club.


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## CaliDave (Sep 11, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Just at the new HGVC next to the Bay club and I asked that question. "Have any affiliates ever been dropped?"
> 
> The answer was a bit of a surprise. The TS saleman said that since there are no HGVC resorts near any of the affiliates that they will not likely be dropped. But the Bay club may be dropped as the new HGVC at Waikoloa grows.
> 
> The current HGVC is only about 20% of the total resort planned. the next developement will be 1/4 mile down the road, on the far side of the golf course and include a huge water park/pool. AS HGVC grows, the need for Bay club may lessen meaning that HGVC may drop the bay club.



They could also be telling you that so you don't walk over to BayClub and pay  1/2 the price they are charging.


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## Bill4728 (Sep 11, 2006)

> They could also be telling you that so you don't walk over to BayClub and pay 1/2 the price they are charging.



True,

But the price was pretty good for Hawaii.

9600 pts for $50K
8400 pts for $42K

MF was $889 / year
*
That is about 3 times the resale price of the Bay Club*


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 11, 2006)

I don't know a whole lot about HGVC.  But, I do know enough to tell you that the new point structure is fantastic for Tuggers who want to arbitrage the system.  Whenever new structures are put into place, opportunities arise to get a great deal.

I agree with Steve that higher point values for new resorts is the same as point inflation.  What will happen is dilution of current ownerships.  As more people buy at the new resorts, they will add lots of points into the system.  When those people make choices of places to stay, they will see a bargain at the lower point resorts.  So, what will happen is those resorts will "stock out" first and availability will grow tougher over time.

The only real way to solve this problem is to allow point values to adjust ever so slightly every 3 years to balance supply and demand better.  If they don't balance supply and demand, then there will be opportunities for us to capitalize on inefficiencies of the system.  This will make it fun.


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## Seth Nock (Sep 12, 2006)

kdorward said:
			
		

> In the recent Grand Times there was an article "Points in Perapective".  I was wondering if anyone had any comments on this.  It doesn't sound good for existing owners.  They are going to include the unit that you own in deerming point values needed.   They say for existing properties won't be any change.  But they are talking about new propertites using this concept.   It sounds like existing owers points won't be worth as much at the newer resorts????



This should be great for the HGVC members.  I cannot post any details currently, but will when I can.


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## SanJoseGirl (Nov 15, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Just at the new HGVC next to the Bay club and I asked that question. "Have any affiliates ever been dropped?"
> 
> The answer was a bit of a surprise. The TS saleman said that since there are no HGVC resorts near any of the affiliates that they will not likely be dropped. But the Bay club may be dropped as the new HGVC at Waikoloa grows.
> 
> The current HGVC is only about 20% of the total resort planned. the next developement will be 1/4 mile down the road, on the far side of the golf course and include a huge water park/pool. AS HGVC grows, the need for Bay club may lessen meaning that HGVC may drop the bay club.





> AS HGVC grows, the need for Bay club may lessen meaning that HGVC may drop the bay club.



If this is true, what would it mean for BayClub owners? Would you recommend selling now? Will BayClub owners that are members of HGVC still retain the same number of points and trading power?

Thanks,
SanJoseGirl


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