# Disney TPU's gone up!



## Mayble (Nov 14, 2011)

A few hours ago I checked DVC listings in RCI and studio was 22 TPU.  I just checked again and it's gone up to 39 TPU and a one bedroom is 43 TPU. What's going on?  I really hope this is a glitch in the system.


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## ScubaKat (Nov 14, 2011)

I saw that too!  2 bedroom SSR in May is 47 and a 1 bedroom in June is 48 TPUs!  That is crazy.. it almost doubled...


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## trinaqueen (Nov 14, 2011)

*Yeah--crazy High!!!*

I am in shock


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## Margariet (Nov 14, 2011)

Well, remember how NY Manhattan Club doubled in TPU's? These things might happen if there is enough demand.


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## marmite (Nov 14, 2011)

ScubaKat said:


> I saw that too!  2 bedroom SSR in May is 47 and a 1 bedroom in June is 48 TPUs!  That is crazy.. it almost doubled...



I don't know anything about the RCI system, just Disney... but that price/points jump makes total sense to me. In Disney, the point values change per season.  In the low season, it costs much less points for any unit, than it does during times the kids are out of school.

If you do a google search on "Disney Vacation Club Point Charts", you can see what the key dates are for price changes.  Maybe it matches up with the point fluctuation you are seeing?


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## JudyS (Nov 15, 2011)

Maybe BNoble will see this thread and comment on the TPU increases. I know he watches DVC deposits very closely.

Also, BNoble recently said (on another forum, www.DISboards.com) that members of "minisystems" (Bluegreen, HGVC, Wyndham, etc), don't pay a premium for DVC units; they just pay the same as they would for a standard Orlando area resort. That could cause a real problem for RCI members who don't own in one of those minisystems. Minisystem members could "snatch up" many of the DVC units at low cost, and the few DVCS that were left would be very expensive for "regular" RCI members!

BNoble, are you reading this thread? Are DVC weeks much cheaper for people who book through the "minisystems"?


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## sfwilshire (Nov 15, 2011)

If enought RCI members "vote with their feet" the TPUs may go down again. In other words, we'd be crazy to pay those high rates to stay at Disney when there are so many other nice resorts in the area. 

I think the Points rates have been high all along. It will be interesting to see if they go up as well.

Sheila


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## 6scoops (Nov 15, 2011)

*Not good!*

I just noticed and this is not good!  I've noticed the TPU seems higher at other places as well.   I wish I booked something yesterday!  And now all I see is Studios for 39TPU!


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## jdunn1 (Nov 15, 2011)

As the owner of WM points, I'm happy with the high TPU cost.  Let's face it, the best, most sought after RCI inventory comes from the mini systems (i.e. WM, Hilton, DVC and Wyndham).  Why shouldn't the mini system resorts cost the most to trade into?  Demand for DVC is crazy high and I think the 2 bedroom prime weeks (whenever kids are out of school) should cost 60 TPU, because of the demand for those weeks.

My hope is that with higher TPU costs, the DVC inventory becomes easier to get for EVERYONE.

...and sure mini systems pay a set price for DVC weeks no matter what the TPU cost is but that means we can never exchange into these resorts for a discount (outside of flex, which hardly ever happens).  We don't get change back from exchanges and we can't combine a bunch of cheap trader weeks to get whatever we want in RCI.  We have to pay the premium price for any exchange we make through RCI, so it is a pretty fair system.  For the year and a half or so RCI has been a TPU system, I've read countless posts from tuggers who were very happy to post about how many DVC weeks they booked and how cheap it is for them to do so.  I do not think the higher TPU cost will change any of that for the die hard DVC exchangers but something had to be done becuase it was just so cheap to exchange into those resorts.  There is also that big issue with DVC RCI weeks being sold on EBAY.  I wonder if the high TPU cost is a means to curb that activity -- though I think the TPU change has everything to do with demand.  People will pay whatever price they have to for DVC.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 15, 2011)

> As the owner of WM points, I'm happy with the high TPU cost.


Yes, I am sure you are happy with that cost.  I am thinking of WorldMark and those low fees right this minute. How many points does it take for a 2 bedroom exchange into RCI?   I think the MF"s are the lowest around.  I keep forgetting about WM, but I shouldn't.


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## bnoble (Nov 15, 2011)

There's a lot going on here.  Here are my first impressions.

First, not only did they go up, but they are now also seasonally different---June and July are more than May at resorts with inventory in both months.  This makes sense, May is very slow in Orlando, and peak summer is high demand for the Mouse in particular, because that's when the kiddos are off of school.  

Second, the "premium" is now approaching a factor of 4.  In May, they are 39/43/47.  In June/July, they look like 43/48/??.  Compare that to the rest of the Orlando area.  In May, most values are 14 or less, the majority at 10 or less, with just a few larger Orange Lake units at 20.

Will this be enough to drive the RCI membership at large to "other" Orlando area resorts?  Hard to say.  The Disney mania is a powerful pull.  On one side, you'll have the "only Disney will do folks", along with people with a surplus of TPU to burn.  On the other side, you have a growing disparity of valuations; a lot of people go to Orlando to "go to Florida".  For those folks, it will be increasingly hard to justify the premium unless they are spending the entire week in the Disney parks.

Finally, the mini-system behaviors seem to be the same, at least for Wyndham.  The entire Orlando area is averaged, with the same Wyndham point values for a particular size and season for all resorts.  When I get some time later today, I will try to post some examples, but the portals use the new Points-style search tool, and getting full listings is a royal pain in the patootie.

Ultimately, this isn't *that* surprising.  Over time, you have to expect that TPU valuations will get closer and closer to open-market rental rates.  And, a 2BR in summer, rented from an owner, will cost you around $3,000-$4,000 depending.  Even at 50 TPU, with an "average" ownership that runs about $30/TPU, an exchange is still only about $1800 including exchange fee and Disney extortion fee.  Is it the same great deal that it was before?  No.  Is it better than renting from an owner?  Yes.


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## bnoble (Nov 15, 2011)

One more thought does come to mind though: for some people, renting smaller units from an owner will be a much better deal.  Even larger units in offseason time might be more affordable renting from an owner.

Once again, this just proves the rule: owning a *particular* thing with an expectation of exchanging into a *particular* resort is a fool's errand.   A portfolio approach always wins, and exchangers are best served by being flexible.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 15, 2011)

It looks a little more reasonable to me, although I would still like to see more variation in TPU from a Studio to a 2BR.  With every increase, we get closer and closer to having a balance between supply and demand.  I think this one might finally hit it.  It would be great to see inventory lasting longer and more readily available.  With the smaller variation between Studio, 1BR and 2BR, I expect 2BRs to go quick (as they always have), 1BR to go almost as quick (unlike the previous levels) and Studios to sit around for quite a while.  Who wants to pay 39 TPU for a Studio (essentially a small step up from a hotel room)?

With the variation in TPU levels even within the same unit size, it looks like they've moved from a simple FLOOR to something a bit more complex.  Perhaps adjustments to the base demand calculations, or maybe even a multiplier.  They're still applying a floor (because most of the units are the same TPU and none are lower), but there's more going on now.

I'm going to have to review my ongoing searches and make sure I have enough TPU.  Hmmm, one does but the other doesn't.  Gonna have to make some changes.


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## JudyS (Nov 15, 2011)

jdunn1 said:


> A...For the year and a half or so RCI has been a TPU system....


The TPU system actually started one year ago today! It doesn't even feel like a full year to me. 

Jdunn1, would you be willing to tell us how many WM credits DVC resorts cost to book (a range of values or a few examples would be great), and how much your WM credits cost in annual fees? Maybe it's time for me to finally buy Worldmark!


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 15, 2011)

6scoops said:


> I just noticed and this is not good!  I've noticed the TPU seems higher at other places as well.   I wish I booked something yesterday!  And now all I see is Studios for 39TPU!



Ditto.  I too looked at them yesterday and decided to wait for something in the fall.  Not a good idea I guess.

Not willing to go at the TPU price.


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## janej (Nov 15, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Yes, I am sure you are happy with that cost.  I am thinking of WorldMark and those low fees right this minute. How many points does it take for a 2 bedroom exchange into RCI?   I think the MF"s are the lowest around.  I keep forgetting about WM, but I shouldn't.



Cindy,

I recently purchased a WM contract.  It takes 10,000 points for a 2 bedroom.  The cost for MF should be $608 per year.   I am still learning how to use the system.  I purchased this contract mostly to use for II.  

Jane


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## schiff1997 (Nov 15, 2011)

Well that's it for me, I'm out.  I got two great exchanges into Disney first one 1 bedroom Animal Kingdom Savanah view at Easter break, some of the best pictures I have ever taken and secondly we have a 2 bedroom coming up in March at BCV.  Our daughter turns 18 this year, so I think it is time to move on from Orlando anyway.   Good luck everyone with this, but those increases with all the fees are just not worth it to me.


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## bnoble (Nov 15, 2011)

Here are two cost comparison points: owner, renter, and exchange make/break value.

First a few assumptions.  Owners amortize their purchase price over the entire contract horizon, with a 3% opportunity cost, using recently reported ROFR prices as the resale cost.  Renters pay $10.50/point.  

BLT.  Purchase price $85/point on secondary market.  Expires in 48 years.  So, annual cost allocated to purchase price is 3%*$85 + $85/48, or $2.55 + $1.77, or $4.32.  Maintenance this year is $3.89.  Total cost per point for a resale owner: $8.21.

Mid-may studio, assuming Lake View (the largest view category, and the last to book): 139 points.  Owner's cost: $1,140.  Renter's cost: $1,460.  Assuming $180 exchange fee and $95 extortion fee, residual value is $865 and $1,185.  So owners must have a $/TPU cost less than $22 for exchange to "cost less".  Renters must have a $/TPU cost less than $30 and change for exchange to "cost less".

That's not as bad as I thought it would be, honestly.  I suspect $30/TPU is about average, system-wide.  Maybe even a little bit lower.  In other words, these TPU values look like they've accurately captured the rental market value.  Larger units will do even better, because DVC point charts are about 2x from a studio to a 1BR, and about 2.7x from a studio to a 2BR, but TPU values do not grow nearly as fast.

As another example: OKW May 2BR.  Resale price $50/pt.  Expires in 30 years, so annual cost is 3%*$50 + $50/30 or $3.17.  MFs this year are $4.98, or total cost per point of $8.15.  A 2BR in May requires 269 points.  Cost to owner: $2,190.  Cost to renter: $2,825.  Residual value after exchange fees: $1,915 and $2,550.  47 TPU for exchange.  Owner must have $/TPU cost less than $40 for exchange to be favorable.  Renter must have $/TPU cost less than $54.

I'm sure I can find situations where even good $/TPU ratios are under water if I look hard enough.  But, on the face of it, these valuations do not look so awful if you assume (as I do) that over time, TPU values have to adjust to open-market prices.  I suspect that for most of us, exchange will continue to be the least expensive way to obtain these units.


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## elaine (Nov 15, 2011)

I am as big a Disney nut as anyone. But, no way am I using 45+ TPUs for DVC vs. the 22 TPUs I used for a 2BR @ HGVC-SW for Easter week. We also had a good roll, OKW 1BR for Easter 2010 and 2BR DVC-HHI end of June 2011.
In fact, we almost added onto our 50 point DVC contract before DVC went to RCI--but saved the $ as we got our RCI-DVC trades. We now have been using our DVc points to accompany our RCI trades to get our DVC fix and when we need a few nights of extra space for overflow family. Glad I did not hold out for DVC for Easter. Bummer. Elaine


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## barond (Nov 15, 2011)

Here's a HGVC calculation.  I booked a 2 bedroom BLT in january (lake view)

Jan BLT 2 Bedroom (lake view) 296 points
HGVC points 4800
my mf per point 0.25 (a bit high) = $1200 + $295 fees + $830 acquisition costs ($8300 / (40 years/4 once every 4 years)) = $2325
renting would cost $2960 ( at $10/pp)
owning via disney would of cost $2430.16 (at resale)


Though I have dreams of reaching the holy grail of 0.10 cents per point (the real value)  via HGVC.  It is only a dream so far.  I paid retail so my acquisition costs comparison is probably not too fair as the actual value of my contract resale is probably $1200.

Baron


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## jdunn1 (Nov 15, 2011)

Hi everyone, I just posted a long post on the sightings board in response to the Worldmark questions Cindy and someone else asked.

-Jim


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## ScubaKat (Nov 15, 2011)

Here's a Wyndham calculation:

March AKV 1 Bedroom (Savannah View) 272 points
Wyndham points: 143,000
my mf per point $4.6/k = $658 + $295 fees + $0 acquisition costs = $952.80
renting would cost $2720 ( at $10/pp)
owning via disney would of cost $2216.80 (at resale)




barond said:


> Here's a HGVC calculation.  I booked a 2 bedroom BLT in january (lake view)
> Baron


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## MichaelColey (Nov 15, 2011)

When you compare with off-site choices, the difference is pretty astounding.  Many off-peak timeshares, at TOP NOTCH resorts (HGVCs, Wyndham Bonnet Creek, Marriotts, etc.) in larger units (2BR and even 3BR) can be exchange into for 10 TPU.  Is it worth 4 times as many points to get into DVC?

The same dichotomy exists in Disney hotels, though.  What is essentially a themed motel (Disney Value resorts) ranges from $100-$150/night.  What is essentially a low- to mid-end hotel (Disney Moderate) ranges from $150-250 per night.  What is essentially a borderline high-end hotel (Disney Deluxe) ranges from $300-$500 per night.  You can find comparable lodging off-site for $30-50/night, $75-$100/night or $150-$200/night.

With a low enough TPU cost, it's still a great deal, though.  My costs to exchange into a DVC (even with the increases) are comparable to what it would cost for me to rent a Disney Value resort.  Sure, I can get into one of the offsite locations for less than half that price, but that's not a huge difference for the onsite perks.


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## presley (Nov 15, 2011)

Disney is all about the money.  If they finally realized, after reading so many complaints by DVC members on various boards, that people who trade into DVC can do so for such a low rate, they have no hopes of selling DVC to those visitors.  They want people to trade in so that they will BUY.  They aren't trying to do you any favors by letting you trade in.

I wouldn't be too upset with RCI about this.  I suspect that they are just trying to make DVC happy.  

Anyhow, for now, you can get killer deals through WM.  Who knows how long that will last, but for now, I see nothing close to those prices.


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## paxsarah (Nov 15, 2011)

The value is definitely in what you're comparing it to - I think Michael has it spot-on. For perspective I think back to what we spent for a week at the Polynesian during the week of the marathon last January, and while it was exactly where and when I wanted to stay at the time (I contend there is no more convenient lodging if you're running or spectating that weekend), there is greater value to be had elsewhere (either on- or offsite) if you're more flexible with what you'll take. (This year for the same weekend I'll be at WBC.)

I'll also mention that the better deals that seem to be available through the mini-portals are somewhat dependent on a good degree of flexibility. At least via Wyndham, there are no deviations from the points grid - so if you are very particular about your week or resort or unit size and an acceptable DVC unit doesn't arise, the fallback options via RCI might be exchanges you could have gotten for 10-15 TPUs if you were in that system. If you're stuck doing that, suddenly the great Wyndham value is not so great.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 15, 2011)

RCI Points has become a better deal as a result of this, too.  I think RCI Weeks is probably still the better deal for me for most DVC weeks, but the two are much closer now.


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## elaine (Nov 15, 2011)

And I was almost going to get rid of my RCI points--now that RCI weeks-DVc is so crazy, RCI points are looking pretty good. RCI (and timeshare ownership--look what Marriott points did) has become a moving target. It takes a lot of time these days! However, thanks to TUG sightings, we are still getting very good trades thru RCI.


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## bnoble (Nov 15, 2011)

> I wouldn't be too upset with RCI about this. I suspect that they are just trying to make DVC happy.


It's also possible that there _really is_ supporting demand to justify these TPU values.  Based on my rental comparison analysis, I suspect there is.



> I'll also mention that the better deals that seem to be available through the mini-portals are somewhat dependent on a good degree of flexibility. At least via Wyndham, there are no deviations from the points grid - so if you are very particular about your week or resort or unit size and an acceptable DVC unit doesn't arise, the fallback options via RCI might be exchanges you could have gotten for 10-15 TPUs if you were in that system. If you're stuck doing that, suddenly the great Wyndham value is not so great.


This is why a portfolio approach works well.  No one ownership will be perfect for all purposes.  But, if you have a healthy mix of different things, each of which is a good value-to-use on its own merits, you'll do well in the long run.



> And I was almost going to get rid of my RCI points--now that RCI weeks-DVc is so crazy, RCI points are looking pretty good.


Don't chase the tail.  Pick a set of ownerships that works for your overall vacation mix, and stick with them!


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## Margariet (Nov 15, 2011)

Supply and demand, that's all that matters. People love to go to Disney and are willing to pay more TPÚ's. If they're not, the TPU's will go down again. Why not ask lots of TPU's when Disney is so high in demand? RCI is not crazy, they see all the ongoing searches for Disney. They tried it with the NY Manhattan Club, doubled the TPU's and slowly all units are booked.


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## lawgs (Nov 16, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> RCI Points has become a better deal as a result of this, too.  I think RCI Weeks is probably still the better deal for me for most DVC weeks, but the two are much closer now.



Do you know what kind of TPU a DVC member gets for trading  a week into the RCI inventory? or is there really a TPU assigned since it is done through member services?

we had a wyndham "member services" representative tell us that our 230 points ( maybe she was not going by the points but by just a week turned over to RCI ) were only worth 24 TPU's. ( she actually had a print out she put out on the table to convince us done from the RCI site i presume )....hmmmm....if this is true.....they certainly are playing with the TPU's

maybe rci is in need of more rental DVC properties

she also tried to make us think that the reason we were not seeing DVC resorts with our points account was due to the fact that RCI ....values points trade factor according to the resort one owns at...

so if you own points at a lesser RCI points resort, you would not see all the points inventory for RCI when you do a search

perhaps, 

what we have been experiencing lately has more to do with the "upgrade" than where we own our points, but we definately are not seeing all the availability when we do a search based upon that resort ( we have several ways to see what is available via portals into RCI and they both show a greater number of potential exchanges, than does our regular RCI points account )


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## JudyS (Nov 16, 2011)

barond said:


> Here's a HGVC calculation.  I booked a 2 bedroom BLT in january (lake view)
> 
> Jan BLT 2 Bedroom (lake view) 296 points
> HGVC points 4800
> ...


Baron, could you clarify a few things for me? Are you saying that the 2-bedroom BLT you booked cost 4800 HGVC points, and that your total MF for those points are $1200? Also, when you say you want to reach the "holy grail" of 0.10 cents per point, what sort of points are you talking about? (And do you really mean 0.10 cents, or 10 cents?)


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## MichaelColey (Nov 16, 2011)

lawgs said:


> Do you know what kind of TPU a DVC member gets for trading a week into the RCI inventory? or is there really a TPU assigned since it is done through member services?


DVC members don't use RCI's system.  Like many of the others, they have fixed redemption levels depending on unit size (Studio/1BR/2BR+) and season (Red/White/Blue).  I've tried to find the chart, but have been unsuccessful.  I saw one at a DVC presentation.  It's an AWFUL value, though.  It seems like something around 300 DVC points for a 2BR Red week, if I remember right.

Perhaps someone else could share more details.  I'm only vaguely familiar with it.


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## MIDisfan (Nov 16, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> DVC members don't use RCI's system.  Like many of the others, they have fixed redemption levels depending on unit size (Studio/1BR/2BR+) and season (Red/White/Blue).  I've tried to find the chart, but have been unsuccessful.  I saw one at a DVC presentation.  It's an AWFUL value, though.  It seems like something around 300 DVC points for a 2BR Red week, if I remember right.
> 
> Perhaps someone else could share more details.  I'm only vaguely familiar with it.



*Season                   1 Bedroom                  2 Bedroom

Low (RCI Blue)             124                           207
Mid  (RCI White)           144                           252
High (RCI Red)             160                           270*


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## barond (Nov 16, 2011)

JudyS said:


> Baron, could you clarify a few things for me? Are you saying that the 2-bedroom BLT you booked cost 4800 HGVC points, and that your total MF for those points are $1200? Also, when you say you want to reach the "holy grail" of 0.10 cents per point, what sort of points are you talking about? (And do you really mean 0.10 cents, or 10 cents?)



I meant 10 cents a point  and yes a 2 bedroom via RCI in the Red time is 4800 points even for Disney.  I currently pay 25 cents a point for maintenance (not including the rci account fee) 10 cents is what HGVC values it on other trades that is not RCI (cruises, hilton honor points)  Some high point low maintenance fee resorts come close to 10 cents a point but none quite make it and are pretty pricey even in resale (in my opinion).

The reason mine is so high is I have an EOY 2400 point silver season 1 bedroom.  Which is about as bad as it gets.  

Baron


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## MichaelColey (Nov 16, 2011)

MIDisfan said:


> *Season 1 Bedroom 2 Bedroom*
> 
> *Low (RCI Blue) 124 207*
> *Mid (RCI White) 144 252*
> *High (RCI Red) 160 270*


Thanks!  So from low season 1BR to high season 2BR, it ranges from $620 to $1350 (looking just at a $5/point MF) or more like $1116 to $2430 (with purchase costs and opportunity cost weighted in to total about $9/point).  Pretty expensive exchanges.


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## chriskre (Nov 16, 2011)

MichaelColey said:


> Thanks!  So from low season 1BR to high season 2BR, it ranges from $620 to $1350 (looking just at a $5/point MF) or more like $1116 to $2430 (with purchase costs and opportunity cost weighted in to total about $9/point).  Pretty expensive exchanges.



Yes they are and the reason why the concensus is that RCI sucks among DVC owners cause for them it really does suck.  :ignore:


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## Carolinian (Nov 16, 2011)

The most sought after exchange inventory comes from location and season, not resort chain affiliation.  

DVC does have some location advantage over other Orlando resorts due to proximity to the Disney theme parks, and so would be expected to have higher demand than other Orlando resorts.

There also seems to be some mystique over DVC for Orlando from what I see quite often on these boards.  I am not sure that applies to other DVC resorts elsewhere.  I know some years ago when I was looking for an exchange into HHI, I was offered a DVC week there by DAE but after discovering it was a ''drive to the beach'' location, I turned it down and took a standard resort, from which I could at least walk to the beach, from RCI.  Proximity to parks may matter in Orlando, but it is proximity to the beach that matters in beach areas.

Supply and demand DO indeed change over time, so it makes sense that a properly run points system would see values go up and down periodically.  A sudden and abrupt change like this, however,  is much for indicative of an arbitrary change for who knows what reason.  Supply and demand SHOULD be all that matters not politicking by resorts and other extraneous factors.  Absent some major factor that suddenly changes the supply / demand curve, values would be expected to shift gradually, not abruptly like this.  There seems to be no normal factor that is in play here.  Maybe it is just that RCI wanted to justify renting out more weeks at these resorts.  RCI's whole concept of renting out exchange deposits corrupts the whole system.




jdunn1 said:


> As the owner of WM points, I'm happy with the high TPU cost.  Let's face it, the best, most sought after RCI inventory comes from the mini systems (i.e. WM, Hilton, DVC and Wyndham).  Why shouldn't the mini system resorts cost the most to trade into?  Demand for DVC is crazy high and I think the 2 bedroom prime weeks (whenever kids are out of school) should cost 60 TPU, because of the demand for those weeks.
> 
> My hope is that with higher TPU costs, the DVC inventory becomes easier to get for EVERYONE.
> 
> ...and sure mini systems pay a set price for DVC weeks no matter what the TPU cost is but that means we can never exchange into these resorts for a discount (outside of flex, which hardly ever happens).  We don't get change back from exchanges and we can't combine a bunch of cheap trader weeks to get whatever we want in RCI.  We have to pay the premium price for any exchange we make through RCI, so it is a pretty fair system.  For the year and a half or so RCI has been a TPU system, I've read countless posts from tuggers who were very happy to post about how many DVC weeks they booked and how cheap it is for them to do so.  I do not think the higher TPU cost will change any of that for the die hard DVC exchangers but something had to be done becuase it was just so cheap to exchange into those resorts.  There is also that big issue with DVC RCI weeks being sold on EBAY.  I wonder if the high TPU cost is a means to curb that activity -- though I think the TPU change has everything to do with demand.  People will pay whatever price they have to for DVC.


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## chriskre (Nov 16, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> I know some years ago when I was looking for an exchange into HHI, I was offered a DVC week there by DAE but after discovering it was a ''drive to the beach'' location, I turned it down and took a standard resort, from which I could at least walk to the beach, from RCI.  Proximity to parks may matter in Orlando, but it is proximity to the beach that matters in beach areas.



That may be the case in HHI, but in Vero and Alauni they are on the beach.


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## Steve@BWV (Nov 16, 2011)

*Good Deal*

I am pleased with this change for two reasons:

1.  These point levels help keep the value in DVC ownership.  While the economy and the increased supply of DVC points from continuing development are the major contributors to depressing the resale prices the ability to exchange into DVC with the $1 ebay timeshare has hurt it as well.  My last trip was an exchange into a Beach Club 1 bedroom and my next trip is a 2 bedroom at Bay Lake Towers (spring break, both weeks!).  Why should anyone buy DVC points if they can get the same room (or better) for almost no upfront costs and nearly the same yearly cost (DVC MF vs MF and RCI fees)?  

I spent About $200 on closing my timeshare, $600MF/year, RCI membership, $199 trade fee and $99 Disney greed fee.  All told, I am into a week at a DVC suite for  about $1200.  I would pay $1900 in MF for DVC pts to stay at BLT in a 2 bedroom when I am going (assuming 380pts and $5/pt)

2.  I bought my TS to stay outside the "world".  I was tired of fixating on the next DVC trip.  I thought this TS would force me to exchange to other resorts.   But with the value of exchanging into DVC I could not help myself.   I had the BLT trip booked with DVC points but I have since canceled when my RCI waitlist came through.  At these rates I do not see a value in trading into DVC when compared against 3 very nice stays elsewhere.


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## elaine (Nov 16, 2011)

I am starting to convert to liking the higher points--sort of like when only those with high trading power could get DVCs. We traded 2X for a fraction of the cost of owning DVC--in fact, we would never own enough DVC points (300+) to be able to go to DVC-HHI in the summer or DVC-WDW at Easter. However, this year, we were unable to get Spring break. So, I would rather have higher points and more availabililty--still coming out ahead of the capital outlay and annual fees of DVC.


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## abc31 (Nov 17, 2011)

Although, I wish I would have traded in while DVC was only 25 TPU's, I couldn't believe it was ever that cheap.  It didn't seem fair to DVC owners at all.  I own a 2bdrm lockoff at Vacation Village at Parkway at the end of September (low season).  When I split my unit up and deposited them separately, I got 12 points for each side. If I combined them, I would have 24 points (only 1 point away from what a DVC unit used to be).  My maintenance is under $600 and I paid practically nothing to buy it on ebay.  Why would anyone buy dvc if they could exchange in for so little?  I would have been really mad if I were a Disney owner.


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## dundey (Nov 18, 2011)

abc31 said:


> Although, I wish I would have traded in while DVC was only 25 TPU's, I couldn't believe it was ever that cheap.  It didn't seem fair to DVC owners at all.  I own a 2bdrm lockoff at Vacation Village at Parkway at the end of September (low season).  When I split my unit up and deposited them separately, I got 12 points for each side. If I combined them, I would have 24 points (only 1 point away from what a DVC unit used to be).  My maintenance is under $600 and I paid practically nothing to buy it on ebay.  Why would anyone buy dvc if they could exchange in for so little?  I would have been really mad if I were a Disney owner.



We had 2 trades into DVC resorts last summer - 1 BR units at 15 TPU's each.  
They were booked right after the switch to TPU in RCI.
Those days are over, but I'm glad we were able to take advantage!!!!!!!!


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## krmlaw (Nov 18, 2011)

*rci changes tpus *

Its not just Disney ... a unit I was watching in pompano went from 10 to 15!
 Crazy!


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## JudyS (Nov 18, 2011)

barond said:


> I meant 10 cents a point  and yes a 2 bedroom via RCI in the Red time is 4800 points even for Disney.  I currently pay 25 cents a point for maintenance (not including the rci account fee) 10 cents is what HGVC values it on other trades that is not RCI (cruises, hilton honor points)  Some high point low maintenance fee resorts come close to 10 cents a point but none quite make it and are pretty pricey even in resale (in my opinion).
> 
> The reason mine is so high is I have an EOY 2400 point silver season 1 bedroom.  Which is about as bad as it gets.
> 
> Baron


Thanks for the explanation!


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## rapmarks (Nov 18, 2011)

I watched one three days in a row,  5 tpus the first day, 7 the second day, and finally settled in at 6 tpus.  Palm Beach shores, now gone.


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## cory30 (Nov 18, 2011)

Hiton Head (all resorts) has seen a fairly sharp increase over the last two weeks as well.


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## bnoble (Nov 18, 2011)

This isn't anything new, folks.  The values fluctuate all the time if you watch carefully.


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## cory30 (Nov 18, 2011)

Agreed. I have seen a couple of areas with pretty sharp TPU drops over the last month as well.


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## gnorth16 (Nov 18, 2011)

I have a HGVC 5000 pt TS. 

I exchanged into a 2BR Vero Beach for 4800 pts (would be the same for any Disney).  My MF are .1716 per point, so it costs,

4800 * .1716 =  $823.68 plus $199 exchange fee = $1022.68

Of course that doesn't count the acquisition costs, but if it did, would add about $200 to the total, which IMO is still great.  

I just learned that the HGVC  portal gets both weeks and points in the RCI system.:whoopie:


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## presley (Nov 18, 2011)

gnorth16 said:


> I have a HGVC 5000 pt TS.
> 
> I exchanged into a 2BR Vero Beach for 4800 pts (would be the same for any Disney).  My MF are .1716 per point, so it costs,
> 
> ...



That is a very good deal.

If you owned at Vero Beach and stayed in a 2Bedroom annually, your annual dues would be over $2000.00.


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## Carolinian (Nov 18, 2011)

Good example of why RCI's valuations don't track supply and demand.  DVC has an obvious mystique about it combined with the best locations for Disney's parks, and from the comments on t/s boards obviously has a high demand even though it is one of the most overbuilt areas in timesharing.  In comparision, VV@P always has a vast oversupply of inventory.  Why one would be in the same ballpark as the other on value makes no sense if RCI is using an honest system based on supply and demand.

Of course, the likely scenario is the ''points lite'' (TPU) is a shell game to cover the inventory they take out of the system for rentals (underpointed for deposits) with those weeks they give back from bulkbanks and such (overpointed for deposits).

For ourselves, we have a good friend with a 5BR vacation house with a pool in the Orlando area that he only uses a couple of weeks a year and has offered us use of it any time we want to go, free other than covering utilities and cleanup by a maid service.  Even so, we have had lots of other places we find more appealing than Orlando, but we will probably use it in a few years when my grandson is of a good age for a mouse visit.




abc31 said:


> Although, I wish I would have traded in while DVC was only 25 TPU's, I couldn't believe it was ever that cheap.  It didn't seem fair to DVC owners at all.  I own a 2bdrm lockoff at Vacation Village at Parkway at the end of September (low season).  When I split my unit up and deposited them separately, I got 12 points for each side. If I combined them, I would have 24 points (only 1 point away from what a DVC unit used to be).  My maintenance is under $600 and I paid practically nothing to buy it on ebay.  Why would anyone buy dvc if they could exchange in for so little?  I would have been really mad if I were a Disney owner.


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## siesta (Nov 18, 2011)

abc31 said:


> Although, I wish I would have traded in while DVC was only 25 TPU's, I couldn't believe it was ever that cheap.  It didn't seem fair to DVC owners at all.  I own a 2bdrm lockoff at Vacation Village at Parkway at the end of September (low season).  When I split my unit up and deposited them separately, I got 12 points for each side. If I combined them, I would have 24 points (only 1 point away from what a DVC unit used to be).  My maintenance is under $600 and I paid practically nothing to buy it on ebay.  Why would anyone buy dvc if they could exchange in for so little?  I would have been really mad if I were a Disney owner.


 its worth mentioning, you wouldnt have been able to trade the VV@Pkwy for DVC Orlando, there is a regional block.


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## siesta (Nov 18, 2011)

gnorth16 said:


> I have a HGVC 5000 pt TS.
> 
> I exchanged into a 2BR Vero Beach for 4800 pts (would be the same for any Disney).  My MF are .1716 per point, so it costs,
> 
> ...


 for cmparison, here is a generic wyndham conversion using $5 per 1000 points as the standard, although my $ to point ratio is slightly better.

143 * 5 =   $715 plus $199 exchange fee = $914 for Prime season
121 * 5 =   $605 plus $199 " ".               = $804 for high season

Acquisition cost nothing, since point contracts are typically had for free or less than $100 and free closing. Worth mentioning RCI memb. is free (included in MF) but only weeks access.

Another thing left out was DVC fee for non owners, but as you left that out I did too to keep it relative. Also i thought exchange fee was $179 not 199, but again to keep it relative I used the same figures


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## ira g (Nov 18, 2011)

presley said:


> That is a very good deal.
> 
> If you owned at Vero Beach and stayed in a 2Bedroom annually, your annual dues would be over $2000.00.



We will be in DVC Vero Beach in Dec. 2011 for 9 TPU @ $20 per TPU or $180 plus $179 exchange fee or $ 359 total for a 2 bedroom.


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## krmlaw (Nov 18, 2011)

thats awesome


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## MichaelColey (Nov 18, 2011)

krmlaw said:


> Its not just Disney ...


I was wondering about that!  Haven't really been watching anything else that closely.


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## Carolinian (Nov 19, 2011)

Changes that occur through normal fluctuations in supply and demand are certainly reasonable and should be expected.  Arbitrary changes, however, are another matter entirely.  A large change when there is no apparent underlying reason would prima facie appear to be arbitrary.  There will never be an honest and trustworthy system of valuation until RCI is fully transparent in its valuation system by revealing the formula for it, and at least releases the underlying data to the resorts so they can monitor its fair application.  For their award status, they already do both of these things.  Deposit valuations are far more critical to members and it is high time that RCI moved to real transparency in place of the current fake transparency.


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## Keep Traveling (Nov 19, 2011)

My Bluegreen Points costs 11,000 for a 2 bedroom

So at 11,000 *.074 = $814 +179 = $993.  Considering you can get these for $0 it's a great deal.

There are various BG points so some may be cheaper or more expensive.

KT


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## JudyS (Nov 19, 2011)

siesta said:


> for cmparison, here is a generic wyndham conversion using $5 per 1000 points as the standard, although my $ to point ratio is slightly better.
> 
> 143 * 5 =   $715 plus $199 exchange fee = $914 for Prime season
> 121 * 5 =   $605 plus $199 " ".               = $804 for high season
> ...


Thanks for the MF figures, Siesta! So, it was $715 Mfs for a Prime season exchannge, and $605 in MFs for a high season -- can you tell me what size units these are, and what difference in points/MFs (if any) there would be for units of a different size? Also, does Wyndham have any lower seasons in Orlando, or is high the lowest?

Would you mind telling me the MFs for a two-bedroom at Wyndham Bonnet Creek? 

TIA!

Judy


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