# Sales Presentation



## ilene13 (Jul 10, 2011)

We just returned from our week at Surfwatch.  We had a sales presentation yesterday morning.  I am not enrolled in the points program and I still have not enrolled.
 Here are the points that they said:
      1.  Even though the DC program would not save any fees for me the
           presenter said that we should join because when Marriott builds new 
           resorts we would only be able to get an exchange into them if we were 
           enrolled.  I asked if they were building any and the answer was that 
           now with the spin off that is their goal.  They will be small boutique
           type resorts.
      2.  I asked that if I were to enroll and the September 30th deadline is in
          effect, would it prohibit me from booking my Aruba weeks for Dec. and
          then changing one of them for DC points.  She was not sure, so she had her manager come in.  
          The manager was not sure, so she called Lakeland and they said that the 9-30 date was written
          in stone.  I said I need my 3 weeks to be able to book the weeks I need.  So that ended that part of
          the conversation.
       3. She wanted us to buy some extra points.  They are now $10.22 per point, but if we would buy a minimum of 3000
           points she could give us the anniversary special of $9.20 per point.  If we bought 3000 points they would give us 
           a bonus of another 4700 DC points or 200,000 MRP.
       4. The presenter was very nice but we told her we just wanted our 15,000 MRP for the presentation.  She then said
           good-bye and a gentleman came in with the paper work.  We had to do a survey and then he started pressuring us
           to enroll and/or to buy points.  The gentleman reiterated what the young lady said in #1 but he said that the Ritz
           Carlton properties were becoming part of the spinoff and that when the whole thing is finalized we will not be able
           to use MRP at the Ritz Carltons.  I told him I would believe it when I saw it in writing.


After this experience as I said before I WILL NOT ENROLL until I can find an advantage for our situation!!!!


ilene


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## Beverley (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for the report on the current sales pitch.  It doesn't sound good to me that the sales tactics are now dropping to the tactics I've seen and experienced
at other brands using the tag team approach.  Do you think this new approach is a result of the spin off from Marriott hotels?

We did enroll and are using our weeks, trading through II, and Destination points.  We have not bought any additional "trust" points and do not plan to. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out as we go forward.

Beverley


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## jd2601 (Jul 10, 2011)

We also sat through a presentation at Surfwatch this week.  Did not care for the salesperson.  This person told us after 2011 there would not be a Marriott preference in II.  

I did ask the Interval International Rep at Grand Ocean.  She told me she knew nothing about this and would be the first person to know.  She also asked the name of our Sales Rep at the presentation.


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## tiel (Jul 10, 2011)

Beverley said:


> Thanks for the report on the current sales pitch.  It doesn't sound good to me that the sales tactics are now dropping to the tactics I've seen and experienced
> at other brands using the tag team approach.  Do you think this new approach is a result of the spin off from Marriott hotels?
> 
> We did enroll and are using our weeks, trading through II, and Destination points.  We have not bought any additional "trust" points and do not plan to. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out as we go forward.
> ...



No.  This tag team approach in the Marriott world has been going on for a while, well before the spinoff was announced.  I can't recall exactly when we first encountered it, but I think it was before the roll out of the DC, when we were still going to the occasional "update".  Unfortunately, it seems there is more pressure applied in the 2nd wave than there used to be...under the guise of a QA check.  Ha!

There is more persistence at every turn now, and it is quite annoying.  They simply will not accept that "no" means "no", and it's borders on harassment.  It starts before you arrive at a resort, and continues until you check out, even if you tell them no at the first contact.  Sigh.


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## kjd (Jul 11, 2011)

Of course they are trying to sell everyone more points.  It's a perfect situation for Marriott given the current economic situation.  First, skim points from every legacy owner who doesn't use their home resort and doesn't trade through II.  Then the sell off the availability they skimmed to someone else.  Then sell points to new people and in effect rent the unsold inventory to point holders depending upon availability.  

I have the feeling that a lot of off-season units that were previously used in trades were never occupied and probably couldn't be given away by II in the form of an AC.  Now Marriott has access to those units if they are turned in for points.  I'm sure there are other angles to this new system that are equally profitable.  Marriott is selling smoke.  No new resort construction, fill the unsold inventory with warm bodies, skim the legacy owners, buy premium resort dates through ROFR at bargain prices or simply tell owners there are no vacancies.  You don't even need ROFR when you tell them that.  

I also have the feeling that when the new spinco takes full control you're going to see more high pressure sales tactics, not less. The games are just beginning.  The resale market will never go back to the previous levels under the weeks system.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 11, 2011)

tiel said:


> No.  This tag team approach in the Marriott world has been going on for a while, well before the spinoff was announced.  I can't recall exactly when we first encountered it, but I think it was before the roll out of the DC, when we were still going to the occasional "update".  Unfortunately, it seems there is more pressure applied in the 2nd wave than there used to be...under the guise of a QA check.  Ha!
> 
> There is more persistence at every turn now, and it is quite annoying.  They simply will not accept that "no" means "no", and it's borders on harassment.  It starts before you arrive at a resort, and continues until you check out, even if you tell them no at the first contact.  Sigh.



But it is not uniform across all resorts.  I still consider the Maui sales force to be generally very professional and honest.  Not so at many other places.


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## Lansdowne (Jul 11, 2011)

During our sales presentation in Kauai we were told that the enrollment deadline was pushed to the end of the year. The sales approach was a lot more pressured than any we have had before with the exception of a presentation we had in 2007 at Maui where the sales agent supervisor told us we had to buy immediately and would not give us until after my golf game to decide - we did purchase but at the Westin! I have been told by several sources that Marriott has lost many of their best sales people with the advent of the new program - people do not want to purchase a property interest in property that is essentially located in Florida!

I am concerned that people are buying into the timeshare program without a fundamental understanding of the process. I am also concerned that without an identifiable interest in a particular property, new owners will not take the extra step of helping to keep the property that they are attending in good shape and that proper decorum is maintained.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 11, 2011)

Lansdowne said:


> The sales approach was a lot more pressured than any we have had before with the exception of a presentation we had in 2007 at Maui where the sales agent supervisor told us we had to buy immediately and would not give us until after my golf game to decide.


I have been to many, many sales presentations at the Maui Ocean Club over the past 7 or 8 years and I have never once seen or experienced this type of thing. You must have found the bad apple in the batch.

Ironically, we have attended two sales presentation at the Westin Maui and they were among the poorest and highest pressure ones we have experienced.


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## mkahanek (Jul 11, 2011)

I have been tag teamed at Ko Olina (Feb 2010) and Waiohai (Nov 2010).  While they were professional and such it was still a bit annoying that no was not received as NO.  THe second person is usually pushing (at least at these two resorts) an Encore package.  some ocean front room with a couple hundred marriott bucks for some set price.  Come back within two years.  If you do and decide to buy then you can buy at that days price (or a little more but below current retail) and apply your encore purchase to the purchase you just make.


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## jme (Jul 11, 2011)

tiel said:


> There is more persistence at every turn now, and it is quite annoying.  They simply will not accept that "no" means "no", and it's borders on harassment.  It starts before you arrive at a resort, and continues until you check out, even if you tell them no at the first contact.  Sigh.



Just have to jump in here......With all due respect, this is just not true. Have no idea what sort of victimization you've suffered at the hands of Marriott, but in 13 years of multiple ownership and dozens of presentations myself, i've never even had ONE instance of anything approaching your experience. If anything, Marriott reps have always been the "restrained" bunch, and highly ethical. We've seen "gentle encouragement" and "exuberance" at a presentation, but not harassment or victimization.  

Do you think they possibly misinterpreted the fact that you personally signed up to look into ownership? You did schedule the meeting, right? what should they then assume?

If there just to learn, that's fine. That's what we do. When it becomes apparent that we don't wish to purchase, the rep, in our experience,  generally says "Glad to meet you, and if you need anything, blah, blah, blah...."...and we exit. So, just tell them at that point. 

In addition, we typically get a call from our "concierge" a day after arrival at an owner week, and we say "thanks but we're not interested" in a presentation, and that's the end of it. We have NEVER received a second phone call.  And we do not feel like "eyes follow us all around the entire week".

So, basically i must defend the reps, based on our experiences. Perhaps you shouldn't sign up for these presentations if it personally threatens you. But again, the words that come to mind are "ridiculous", "victim mentality", and "paranoia". Lighten up.


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## thinze3 (Jul 11, 2011)

kjd said:


> ...
> I have the feeling that a lot of off-season units that were previously used in trades were never occupied and probably couldn't be given away by II in the form of an AC.  Now Marriott has access to those units if they are turned in for points.  ...



And those 'off-season' owners can now have access to 'platinum' dates using their DC legacy points by combining, borrowing and banking.  It will interesting to see how availability stands in a couple of years.

Let's hope some 'platinum' week owners use their points to take multiple 'off-season' trips to help offset this.


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## MALC9990 (Jul 11, 2011)

jd2601 said:


> We also sat through a presentation at Surfwatch this week.  Did not care for the salesperson.  This person told us after 2011 there would not be a Marriott preference in II.
> 
> I did ask the Interval International Rep at Grand Ocean.  She told me she knew nothing about this and would be the first person to know.  She also asked the name of our Sales Rep at the presentation.



I cannot see how dropping the Marriott preference in II would work since there are still MVCI resorts outside the DC and to exchange to Europe resorts US owners MUST use II !!!!!


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## gblotter (Jul 11, 2011)

jme said:


> Just have to jump in here......With all due respect, this is just not true. Have no idea what sort of victimization you've suffered at the hands of Marriott, but in 13 years of multiple ownership and dozens of presentations myself, i've never even had ONE instance of anything approaching your experience. If anything, Marriott reps have always been the "restrained" bunch, and highly ethical. We've seen "gentle encouragement" and "exuberance" at a presentation, but not harassment or victimization.
> 
> Do you think they possibly misinterpreted the fact that you personally signed up to look into ownership? You did schedule the meeting, right? what should they then assume?
> 
> ...


We have experienced a wide range of MVCI sales tour experiences depending on the resort.

At Ko Olina, we get plenty of high-pressure and an argumentative approach.

At Maui it all seems very professional.  They seem a bit smug in knowing that they have a desirable product.

At Mountainside we don't even get a phone call.  Perhaps because Mountainside has been sold-out for years, their sales office is closed now.  But I think you can still go over to Summit Watch for a presentation.


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## Lansdowne (Jul 11, 2011)

*Maui Presentation*

Indeed we must of gotten the rotten apple - we have been to many presentation in our over 20 years of ownership. We have purchased 4 timeshares - 3 from Marriott. Only in Maui was I told by the supervisor of our sales agent that I had to make the call on purchasing immediately. I had a tee time @ Kaanapali and I told them about that before the presentation - it should have not been a problem - but the presentation took forever - partly because we asked many questions. We were told that in order to get the incentives and the purchase price we had to give him an immediate answer and it could not wait until after I played golf. We offered to meet with them at the end of the day but that was not acceptable. We are both attorneys and there was no way we were going to do business that way and we were shocked and angry with his approach. 

Several weeks later we received a post card from the sales lady apologizing for her supervisor's conduct and I also received an apology from the general sales manager! 

Since our presentation in Maui we have attended presentations in Vegas, Phoenix and Kauai. Unless the incentive to attend are enhanced we have attended our last presentation. We are finding that any new information that is communicated from Marriott is minimal and sometimes incorrect or inconsistent with their documents. We are also finding that the sales personnel appear to be less experienced with the timeshare options.

 Good Luck to all new purchasers - this website is a great source of information.


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## CapriciousC (Jul 11, 2011)

We've just stopped going to any and all presentations.  We're not interested in joining the points program, and our vacation time is far too precious to us to trade even an hour for a gift certificate or 15,000 MR points.  

Right after they initiated the points program, we did experience some very hard selling to get us to attend a presentation (mostly at Grande Vista - they seem particularly pushy there).  We visit Orlando probably six to eight times a year, and the first four or five visits after the program was initiated were interesting, as they hadn't really pushed a sales presentation on us in a while.  I figured out pretty quickly, though, that when you explain to them that you're a TUG member and are very familiar with the details of the program, they're apt to leave you alone 

They did ask us at Waiohai about a month ago if we were interested, but I just asked them if they had immediate plans to include the European resorts in the program, and when they said no, I said that until they did, I wasn't interested.  That seemed to do the trick.


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## mdonato (Jul 11, 2011)

I believe about a year in a half ago Marriott signed a 10 year contract with Intervel so that relationship isnt going anywhere anytime in the near future.  Ritz Carlton is not going to be part of the Marriott resorts.  I did hear the premium owners would have access to the Ritz Carlton club.  This program is really new it just rolled out recently I believe.  I thought Marriott was trying to sell Ritz Carlton at least last I heard.  The explorer collection you can go to Europe and many other places.  Out of everything I have heard of the new points program for me this is the most interesting and truely the best move for Marriott.  It is similar a program Disney has.  My #1 concern always though is availablility.  All these things sound great but who wants to spend tons of money only to find out there is no room.  I would also never buy direct knowing resale market values.  As far as the sales pitch UGH!!


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## tiel (Jul 11, 2011)

jme said:


> Just have to jump in here......With all due respect, this is just not true. Have no idea what sort of victimization you've suffered at the hands of Marriott, but in 13 years of multiple ownership and dozens of presentations myself, i've never even had ONE instance of anything approaching your experience. If anything, Marriott reps have always been the "restrained" bunch, and highly ethical. We've seen "gentle encouragement" and "exuberance" at a presentation, but not harassment or victimization.
> 
> Do you think they possibly misinterpreted the fact that you personally signed up to look into ownership? You did schedule the meeting, right? what should they then assume?
> 
> ...



You misunderstood a bit...in June, we said NO to the invite to attend a presentation twice before we even left home.  We were asked once, maybe twice, again when we got to the resort, and we said the answer was still NO.  As we were preparing to check out, we were contacted yet again and asked if we were sure we didn't want to buy, and when we said we were sure, we were offered an Encore package...which really made no sense at all since we had made it clear we were not going to buy anymore since we have enough TS weeks.  

That's what I was talking about when I said there is a lot more persistence to the sales approach.  In the "olden" days, pre-MDC, we were not approached prior to arriving at the resort, and when we said no to the presentation at the resort, that was it.  No more contact during the stay, or at the end of it.  It was nice.  It just doesn't seem to be the case anymore, and we wish it were.  

Btw, we are about to leave for a 3-week resort stay, and we have already been contacted about a presentation during our first week.  We declined, politely but firmly.  I hope that is the end of it, but I don't expect it is.


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## mightywyrm (Jul 11, 2011)

*yes, but...*



jme said:


> Just have to jump in here......With all due respect, this is just not true. Have no idea what sort of victimization you've suffered at the hands of Marriott, but in 13 years of multiple ownership and dozens of presentations myself, i've never even had ONE instance of anything approaching your experience. If anything, Marriott reps have always been the "restrained" bunch, and highly ethical. We've seen "gentle encouragement" and "exuberance" at a presentation, but not harassment or victimization.
> 
> Do you think they possibly misinterpreted the fact that you personally signed up to look into ownership? You did schedule the meeting, right? what should they then assume?
> 
> ...



This matches our general experience, as other long-time timeshare owners - not just Marriott.  We get asked to sign up twice:  First, at check-in we're told that we really should sign up for a presentation, if nothing else to get an update on all the really neat stuff that's going on.  ("No?  Are you sure?  Okay, well I still think you should sign up.  Here's my card if you change your mind.")  Second, there's a call to our room the following morning to try again.  That's it.

That said, we've had some notably annoying moments with Marriott sales staff.  

(1) On two occasions I've interrupted a couple salesmen lingering nearby, hunched over a cubicle or similar, who looked very much like they belonged in a used car dealership.  I'm referring to furtive glances, and smirks that are quickly replaced with overly "sincere" (bordering on fear) facial expressions indicating that they didn't mean anything by whatever they had just said.  The body language and expressions were just all wrong for developing trust.  I really despise that.

(2) On another visit, a salesman hustled us over to the first location, where he learned that we were TUG members, and rushed off apparently to check something.  After leaving us sitting for 10 minutes, he hustled us in to talk to his boss.  We had a pleasant discussion and decided to do an Encore stay.  During the paperwork process we were moved two more times - again rapidly and with little comment.  My feedback indicated the abruptness of our experience.  When we returned for the Encore stay, we met with this same guy, who made it clear that he was offended by the feedback provided, which he had apparently read verbatim.  Further, he flatly stated that he wasn't interested in wasting time on an update of any kind, and wanted to know if we were going to buy or not.  (Nope!)

Anyhow, we've never considered ourselves to be on the menu at a Marriott resort, and we haven't been harassed.  However, we have come across a few vultures and a roadrunner...


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## Swice (Jul 11, 2011)

*Honeymoon*

Fourteen years ago, my wife and I attended our first presentation while on our honeymoon in Kauai.    During the first few minutes, the sales lady "chatted" with us and discovered we had flown first class to Hawaii on points, we were staying in a Marriott hotel suite on points and because of our jobs, we had more points coming our way in the future.    

She was super... she treated us with respect and as professionals.   She spoke to us in an honest and candid manner and told us "we didn't need" a timeshare because of our situation.    We walked out of that presentation and were so impressed that we vowed to buy a Marriott timeshare in the future.   It was because of her (and others like her during future presentations), that we bought two from the developer.    

However, we've noticed in recent years, each presentation has gotten just a fraction more unpleasant.    Our worst was at Marco Island about three or four years ago where the supervisor proceeded to recount how many presentations we had been on and questioned why we were wasting his time.     

The troubling thing is the "trend."   

The point I'm making is the way my wife and I were first treated resulted in two future sales.    I doubt that would be the case today.


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## David10225 (Jul 11, 2011)

*Our experience today*

My wife received a phone call from a rep today re making an appointment while at Barony next week.  She told them my husband just wants to vacation when he's on vacation.  

A little while later, this email arrived:


It was a pleasure to speak with you today!  I am looking forward to assisting you during your stay with us.  As I mentioned,  if you think of something that I can help you with before you arrive please call me at 843-xxx-xxxx   If there is anything at all that you need please let me know.


We are celebrating our 1 year anniversary of the new Marriott Destinations Program!! It is a very exciting and busy time! I want to invite you two to come in and do a presentation on all the details of the program so that as owners you are all up to date on your ownership. Of course we will give you a gift of $75 Certificate or 10,000 Marriott Reward Points for your time. Let me know what day and time you’d like to do that.


I will give you a call in your villa once you arrive to make sure everything is meeting your expectations.  If you need anything ahead of time please to not hesitate to call or email me!



Thank you for your time and have a safe trip!


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## aka Julie (Jul 12, 2011)

David10225 said:


> My wife received a phone call from a rep today re making an appointment while at Barony next week.  She told them my husband just wants to vacation when he's on vacation.
> 
> A little while later, this email arrived:
> 
> ...



We are at Barony now.  A couple days before we left for Barony we received a call from our "personal concierge" asking if she could help with anything and she closed with "due to all the confusion regarding the Destination Club, did we want to sign up for a presentation."  I told her that we were not interested and she left it at that.  She did call the morning after we arrived to see if we needed any help with golf, etc.  I don't think she even brought up the presentation.  Since then we haven't been bothered.  Maybe with a full house they have enough people interested that they don't have to keep pestering people to fill the seats.


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## jd2601 (Jul 12, 2011)

David10225 said:


> My wife received a phone call from a rep today re making an appointment while at Barony next week.  She told them my husband just wants to vacation when he's on vacation.
> 
> We are celebrating our 1 year anniversary of the new Marriott Destinations Program!! It is a very exciting and busy time! I want to invite you two to come in and do a presentation on all the details of the program so that as owners you are all up to date on your ownership. Of course we will give you a gift of $75 Certificate or 10,000 Marriott Reward Points for your time. Let me know what day and time you’d like to do that.
> 
> ...


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## dougp26364 (Jul 12, 2011)

Lansdowne said:


> During our sales presentation in Kauai we were told that the enrollment deadline was pushed to the end of the year. The sales approach was a lot more pressured than any we have had before with the exception of a presentation we had in 2007 at Maui where the sales agent supervisor told us we had to buy immediately and would not give us until after my golf game to decide - we did purchase but at the Westin! I have been told by several sources that Marriott has lost many of their best sales people with the advent of the new program - people do not want to purchase a property interest in property that is essentially located in Florida!
> 
> I am concerned that people are buying into the timeshare program without a fundamental understanding of the process.* I am also concerned that without an identifiable interest in a particular property, new owners will not take the extra step of helping to keep the property that they are attending in good shape and that proper decorum is maintained.*



From what I've seen over the years, individuals don't treat the resorts that they have deeded weeks to any better than a hotel room. On the other hand, maybe they treat their own homes this way. I don't think it will matter if it's a trust or deeded week. In reality, it's up to each resorts HOA to maintain the resorts and maintain the "proper" decorum. Right now, I'm at Mountainside. This would still be a mostly deeded resort. At this particular point in time I have to keep an eye out for chilrden running wild if I don't want to get run over. So IMHO proper decorum (for us mature folks at least) is already out the window.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 12, 2011)

Swice said:


> Fourteen years ago, my wife and I attended our first presentation while on our honeymoon in Kauai.    During the first few minutes, the sales lady "chatted" with us and discovered we had flown first class to Hawaii on points, we were staying in a Marriott hotel suite on points and because of our jobs, we had more points coming our way in the future.
> 
> She was super... she treated us with respect and as professionals.   She spoke to us in an honest and candid manner and told us "we didn't need" a timeshare because of our situation.    We walked out of that presentation and were so impressed that we vowed to buy a Marriott timeshare in the future.   It was because of her (and others like her during future presentations), that we bought two from the developer.
> 
> ...



Ditto with the exception of being insulted. We haven't been insulted yet and, I doubt we ever will be. We stopped going to presentations before it hit that level.

I don't mind the presentations nearly as much as my wife. I think my wife would prefer taking a sharp stick to the eye as to sit through another owners update or timeshare sales presentation.


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## Swice (Jul 12, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> I don't mind the presentations nearly as much as my wife. I think my wife would prefer taking a sharp stick to the eye as to sit through another owners update or timeshare sales presentation.



Exactly my story as well.    They've turned my wife off -- big time.    Again, that's why we originally bought, because my wife said Marriott *was* different from the other timeshare companies.


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## exotherm (Jul 12, 2011)

*Using MRP's at Ritz Carlton*

As an FYI, we are using MRP's to stay at the Barcelona Ritz Carlton this fall at about a 50% premium over Marriotts.


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## rsackett (Jul 12, 2011)

I do not think I have gotten an invite for a presentation in years.  I can only guess that they know that I bought from them once only to back out of the purchase  within the 10 day cooling off period, then bought all my weeks resale.  Anyway its fine with me, I also want to vacation when on vacation.

Ray


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## chunkygal (Jul 13, 2011)

Even though we had sort of a similar experience at Ko Olina last month, I am glad we went because it really opened my eyes up to the fact I really didn't understand the significance of the change in the program and made me seek out a user group (here) and I have learned so much!

I left confused and not sure WHY I would buy extra points, but I was sure I did the right thing for us by getting the option to convert. We were excited about this option, cause we like the "points" system so much at Disney. 

Our salesman was nice, even if he gave us some incorrect information.

What I have noticed over the years is that a lot of the salesman themselves own Marriott Timeshares, so I wonder what they honestly feel about the change, because it affect them.


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## MALC9990 (Jul 14, 2011)

chunkygal said:


> Even though we had sort of a similar experience at Ko Olina last month, I am glad we went because it really opened my eyes up to the fact I really didn't understand the significance of the change in the program and made me seek out a user group (here) and I have learned so much!
> 
> I left confused and not sure WHY I would buy extra points, but I was sure I did the right thing for us by getting the option to convert. We were excited about this option, cause we like the "points" system so much at Disney.
> 
> ...



What I notice over the years is that the sales people often say that they own Marriott Weeks - there is however no way that I can say that they were telling the truth. One sales guy was quite illuminating on the subject. 

"Own a Marriott TS week - no way - I cannot afford it on what I earn with a wife and family to support !"


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## TJCNewYork (Jul 14, 2011)

*Critical Success Factors*



ilene13 said:


> If we bought 3000 points they would give us a bonus of another 4700 DC points or 200,000 MRP.



Thank you ilene for mentioning this detail. MRP bonuses are a tried and true sales wrinkle.  Since vacation ownership is "*experiential*", this development acknowledges the "*power of the referral*", a critical success factor in marketing and selling vacation ownership.  

A 200K MRP bonus is substantial. According to the MR program rules: 
• A member may purchase or receive as a gift a combined maximum of 50,000 points per calendar year. 
  • Points may be purchased in increments of 1,000.
  • Purchase rate is 12.50 (USD) per 1,000 points. 

On a hunch, the new DC point rate factors in the cost of $2500 for 200K MRP.  Does anyone know if you also get a MRP bonus for self-referral? In the past *self-referral bonus* MRPs ranged upwards from 40K.  Does anyone know how many MRPs are offered now if a friends/family referral buys 3000 points?  

Bravo for "*see it in writing*."  After the abrupt announcement last June 20, 2010, there is no shortage of 'buyers remorse', a common euphemism for a breach in confidence and trust.  

Cheers

TJCNewYork


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## Luckybee (Jul 14, 2011)

dougp26364 said:


> From what I've seen over the years, individuals don't treat the resorts that they have deeded weeks to any better than a hotel room. On the other hand, maybe they treat their own homes this way. I don't think it will matter if it's a trust or deeded week. In reality, it's up to each resorts HOA to maintain the resorts and maintain the "proper" decorum. Right now, I'm at Mountainside. This would still be a mostly deeded resort. At this particular point in time I have to keep an eye out for chilrden running wild if I don't want to get run over. So IMHO proper decorum (for us mature folks at least) is already out the window.



You are so right on that Doug but I'll go a step further and say that in some cases folks treat their unit worse than a hotel room. One of the things we noticed when we first bought at the OC in Aruba were the number of people that left trash in inappropriate places, kids running in halls ,climbing where they shouldnt, etc. We thought at first that perhaps it was just previewers. It didnt get better when the resort sold out, and in the last couple of years it seems to have become a bit worse. Two years ago dh mentioned to the front desk that the elephant party beside us was driving us crazy(kids running throughout their unit every day like clockwork, and screaming from about 6 am till??? This went on whenever they were in the room). We presumed traders....turns out they were owners and someone did speak with them, which had the desired effect for 1 day ! Had this been a 5 star hotel they would have either shaped up or shipped out I suspect. This past trip I couldnt get over the parents who allowed their cuties to use the new fixtures by the outdoor showers as monkey bars.


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## Will33 (Jul 24, 2011)

just attendend my encore sales presentation today, probably the last for a long time, i don't want to waste time on vacation, don't worry I did not purchase any points, but the best part was when the salesman could not believe the amount of information I knew about Marriott and the new destinations program, amount of each resort that was in the trust, legacy points versus trust points, and so on, he wanted to know where I got this information that only Marriott sales people would normally know, said he had not talked to someone so well informed.  I just said an online timeshare users group, i was afraid to say TUG after reading how some of these people act after hearing the word "TUG", Thanks TUGGERS for all the infomation, it was nice to have them wondering what was going on for once.


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## mkahanek (Jul 24, 2011)

Will33 said:


> just attendend my encore sales presentation today, probably the last for a long time, i don't want to waste time on vacation, don't worry I did not purchase any points, but the best part was when the salesman could not believe the amount of information I knew about Marriott and the new destinations program, amount of each resort that was in the trust, legacy points versus trust points, and so on, he wanted to know where I got this information that only Marriott sales people would normally know, said he had not talked to someone so well informed.  I just said an online timeshare users group, i was afraid to say TUG after reading how some of these people act after hearing the word "TUG", Thanks TUGGERS for all the infomation, it was nice to have them wondering what was going on for once.



Will,

Where did you attend your encore presentation??   I have one coming up before 11/2012 I need to get done.  I am waffling on enrolling (not purchasing points period).  Mine will be in Kauai.  Last time I talked with a sales dude I got the same "man you know your stuff".. ha.


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## piper_chuck (Jul 30, 2011)

New here, this is my first post. We just got back from a week with Mickey & friends, stayed at Grande Vista. Since we hadn't been to a sales presentation lately, we agreed to attend one. 

The pressure has definitely been ramped up since I attended my first presentation years ago at Grande Ocean. Our sales rep explained the new system, talked of the value of being able to access the new properties, and offered us 2,000 points at the original price. When we balked at that he spoke with someone else and lowered the amount to a level that would get us to premier, but at $10.22 per point. 

We spent time discussing it to ourselves, asked more questions, but ultimately said no. We had to sign a form acknowledging that we had heard the presentation and that said we would not be eligible to receive the signing incentives if we did not purchase at that time. 

When he finally gave up on us, he took us to the room where they were giving out the incentives for attending. A second person then tried to get us to sign up to rent a week at GV which would lock in being able to buy trust points at $10.25/point within the next year. He said if we took his deal and then bought during that trip that the cost of the trip would be applied as a down payment. Since I've already got 3 weeks banked with II and can usually only get away from work for 1 week a year, we decided to not complicate our lives by committing to yet another week, and sinking more money into Marriott vacations.

Since then I've done quite a bit of reading, mostly here, about the pros and cons of the new plan. 

One thing I found quite interesting is that at no point during the presentation did our sales rep say anything about a difference between trust and legacy points. The impression he left us with was as long as we bought into the trust we could use all of our points wherever we wanted. I saw a forum post a little while ago that implied there are limitations on where/when the points from our existing properties can be used.

The salesman said the deadline for converting weeks was soon, but that Marriott might not offer us the same amount of points, would not offer us any incentives if we elected to buy trust points, etc.

The ONLY two values I can see at this point for having points is that it lets us trade down and bank a few points and that it lets us split up weeks. On the flip side, until you buy into the new system, there's no way to assess the availability of properties where/when we want to go. That flexibility would be nice, but I'm not sure it's worth the significant chunk of change it would cost to buy if we wanted to get to premier level.

The bottom line is that this sales presentation left my wife and I with a bad taste that we had not experienced from any Marriott presentations in the past. I noted this in the online survey I got via email a couple days later.


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## m61376 (Jul 30, 2011)

Piper_chuck- welcome to Tug  Read the posts here and they will give you a clearer picture of how the new system works and if you feel you will be able to derive any benefit from it. 

A few considerations: since it appears you bought retail (although I may be wrong) joining would be 695. If you make a lot of trades through II, the annual fee may offset your combined II/trade fees and you may break even within a few years. Depending on the season you own at GO, your point allocation may be higher than point cost at many other locations and, since you cannot lock-off for trades, you may do better converting to points for trades in some cases for that property, so you might get an extra day or two or perhaps a 3BR elsewhere. So that might be a nice perk for you.It also gives you the option of renting points from others if needed any given year.

You can enroll at the current rate with the current offer of 800 plus points through November; that "deadline" may or may not be extended at the same offering. I venture to guess that developer purchased legacy weeks will always be eligible for joining, but personally am not as confident that pre-DC external purchases will be offered that option in future years (this is all personal conjecture, just so you know). And, of course, you can enroll without purchasing any more points. 

HTH


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## piper_chuck (Jul 30, 2011)

m61376 said:


> Piper_chuck- welcome to Tug  Read the posts here and they will give you a clearer picture of how the new system works and if you feel you will be able to derive any benefit from it.
> 
> A few considerations: since it appears you bought retail (although I may be wrong) joining would be 695. If you make a lot of trades through II, the annual fee may offset your combined II/trade fees and you may break even within a few years. Depending on the season you own at GO, your point allocation may be higher than point cost at many other locations and, since you cannot lock-off for trades, you may do better converting to points for trades in some cases for that property, so you might get an extra day or two or perhaps a 3BR elsewhere. So that might be a nice perk for you.It also gives you the option of renting points from others if needed any given year.
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

Your thoughts are similar to what we've discussed. We frequently trade, but usually Marriott to Marriott. Being able to book partial weeks and bank points if we decide to trade down, GO for something in Orlando for example, are positives for the new plan. 

The 800 points combined with converting our 2012 weeks to points would give us 6100 points in the bank at the start. Since we've got 3 weeks already deposited with II and LOTS of rewards points banked, if the system works as advertised, we should be able to go somewhere really nice and still get in a few Orlando trips via II trades. 

The funny thing is our salesperson told us enrolling our existing weeks without buying trust points had little value. That's just one of many issues I have with the new sales pressure. Some of the past sales people were willing to just chat and help us learn how to use the system better even if we didn't buy that visit. The focus now seems to be entirely on closing a new sale.


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## kjd (Jul 30, 2011)

Now the sales staff is saying that "enrolling existing weeks without buying trust points is of little value"?  Incredible!!!  That's not what they told us when they were trying to get us to enroll our resale weeks.

If the sales staff wonders why many of us say they have no credibility there's a reason for it.  Especially if you're around here long enough to read some of these posts.  I doubt if so many of these posters, who don't know each other and have visited different resorts, would lie about their sales presentation experiences.  

It matters not what incentives they are offering.  It's simply not worth the ninety minutes out of my vacation time to listen to these outright lies.


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## hotcoffee (Jul 30, 2011)

I will comment on my recent Maui Ocean Club presentation regarding pressure to buy points.  My opinion of the presentation was that it was basically similar to other recent presentations I've been to at other resorts.  I cannot say from this one presentation that MOC presentations are any more "professional" than any of the others.  The salesman never gave up telling us that we should buy more points in spite of the fact that my constant answer was "no".  However, I was not particularly offended by that because I know that is what he is there to do: sell points.

I get the impression that the sales staff will bend the truth a little if they think it could sway the customer to buy points.  An example from this presentation of that was on the issue of whether Trust inventory ever gets moved to the internal exchange pool for enrolled legacy owners to reserve.  He implied that it would not because Marriott would rent any surplus weeks from the Trust.  So, I drew a diagram of a bunch of Trust points on a piece of paper.  I then circled about half of those points and noted that these points were exchanged by Trust owners for non-trust resorts from the internal exchange inventory.  I then asked him whether their having exchanged these points would free up an equivalent amount of Trust inventory for enrolled weeks owners to reserve.  He admitted that from the way he understood the program, it would.  When I noted to the saleman that if Marriott moves all of its unsold inventory to the Trust and does not make any of it available to enrolled weeks owners, Marriott would have a lot of unhappy owners, he stated that the program has to provide successful exchanges for it to be considered a success.  I then asked him about whether Marriott had an internal staff that managed moving inventory from one pool to another (something I have been told by someone at Marriott).  He admitted that he did not know anything about how Marriott internally manages its inventory.

Based on the above, I conclude that:

1. the sales staff has a limited knowledge of the inner workings of the program;
2. the sales staff's desire to sell points means that they might stretch the truth a bit to make it seem like if we do not buy points, the DC program will not be of much benefit to us;
3. the sales staff might back off of some of their statements when confronted by customers who know as much or more than they do about how the program works.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 30, 2011)

hotcoffee said:


> I will comment on my recent Maui Ocean Club presentation regarding pressure to buy points.  My opinion of the presentation was that it was basically similar to other recent presentations I've been to at other resorts.  I cannot say from this one presentation that MOC presentations are any more "professional" than any of the others.  The salesman never gave up telling us that we should buy more points in spite of the fact that my constant answer was "no".  However, I was not particularly offended by that because I know that is what he is there to do: sell points.
> 
> I get the impression that the sales staff will bend the truth a little if they think it could sway the customer to buy points.  An example from this presentation of that was on the issue of whether Trust inventory ever gets moved to the internal exchange pool for enrolled legacy owners to reserve.  He implied that it would not because Marriott would rent any surplus weeks from the Trust.  So, I drew a diagram of a bunch of Trust points on a piece of paper.  I then circled about half of those points and noted that these points were exchanged by Trust owners for non-trust resorts from the internal exchange inventory.  I then asked him whether their having exchanged these points would free up an equivalent amount of Trust inventory for enrolled weeks owners to reserve.  He admitted that from the way he understood the program, it would.  When I noted to the saleman that if Marriott moves all of its unsold inventory to the Trust and does not make any of it available to enrolled weeks owners, Marriott would have a lot of unhappy owners, he stated that the program has to provide successful exchanges for it to be considered a success.  I then asked him about whether Marriott had an internal staff that managed moving inventory from one pool to another (something I have been told by someone at Marriott).  He admitted that he did not know anything about how Marriott internally manages its inventory.
> 
> ...



Yep, sounds like you've got a handle on all this.  Thanks.

Selling DC Points seems to make the salespeople just as wonky as they were when they were selling Weeks.  Back then TUG was full of stories about the ridiculousness that TUGgers heard during presentations and the line used most often was, "if a salesman's mouth is moving HE'S LYING!"  It doesn't make sense to me that just because Points are the currency now, we're expecting the salespeople to act differently?

Anybody who wants to know whether or not DC Points will fit into their timeshare portfolio, through Weeks-enrollments or Points-purchases, should do what's always been suggested:  read TUG to gain as much knowledge as possible about the program and recognize that salespeople have a job to do that is probably at odds with your ownership goals.  Then compare your own Marriott usage history and its cost as it was formerly available (Weeks, II) to what's available now (Weeks, II, DC Points.)  Factor in whether or not you think the reputation of timeshare salespeople makes a difference in how you can best use the timeshares, and go from the there.  Everything else is just fluff, IMO.


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