# Management at Ocean Pointe has zip tied pool chairs together



## Quilter (Mar 29, 2019)

At the pool most popular with families the management team at Ocean Pointe has decided to zip tie the pool chairs into pairs.   This keeps guests from rearranging the seating pattern.  As you can imagine, it's not a popular idea.

Are there other MVCI resorts that do this?


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## bazzap (Mar 29, 2019)

Quilter said:


> At the pool most popular with families the management team at Ocean Pointe has decided to zip tie the pool chairs into pairs.   This keeps guests from rearranging the seating pattern.  As you can imagine, it's not a popular idea.
> 
> Are there other MVCI resorts that do this?


None that we stay at, how very bizarre


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## hangloose (Mar 29, 2019)

While I understand the desire from resort/pool staff to keep chairs organized, I personally find the experience of having chairs zip tied together poor.   For example, they are hard to walk between, leave you inches from a stranger, allow limited mobility (if you want sun/shade/etc), etc.  I hope they reconsider.


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## Fasttr (Mar 29, 2019)

Good for the zip tie manufacturer, bad for MVC resort owners/guests.  

Clearly an overreaction to a perceived problem.  I would be surprised if this approach is not abandoned before too long.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 29, 2019)

I think that is awful.  I hope they don't try that at Grande Vista.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 29, 2019)

That is an absolutely absurd, idiotic thing to do and likely a fantastic way to piss off the owners who have paid thousands of dollars for a lifetime of vacations.
We rarely use the pools and yet, as an owner at Ocean Pointe, I find this practice objectionable and embarrassing.


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## bogey21 (Mar 29, 2019)

Take a razor blade with you to the pool...

George


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## TheTimeTraveler (Mar 29, 2019)

Zip Ties make great handcuffs!





.


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## jimf41 (Mar 29, 2019)

bogey21 said:


> Take a razor blade with you to the pool...
> 
> George


Right track but the wrong tool George. Razors are too dangerous use a small pair of dikes (wire cutters). Much safer and quicker.


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## Fasttr (Mar 29, 2019)

jimf41 said:


> Right track but the wrong tool George. Razors are too dangerous use a small pair of dikes (wire cutters). Much safer and quicker.


Agreed.  I take comfort that George sold all of his timeshares (including his Crown Suite at the Monarch) so I don’t have to worry about stepping on the razor blade he brought to the pool.


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## mdurette (Mar 29, 2019)

That is nuts.    So a couple sits together by the pool.   one wants shade and the other wants sun.   guess you need to take up 4 chairs to have what each wants.   Dumb.....


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## mjkkb2 (Mar 29, 2019)

We just checked in today and noticed the zip tied chairs.  I thought it was odd...


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## mjkkb2 (Mar 30, 2019)

What’s more odd is they only did it on the main pool.  Cobia pool chairs are still free...


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## dougp26364 (Mar 30, 2019)

I’ve spent a little more time thinking about this and wonder, are we certain it’s management and not some off-the-rails guest/owner who took some offense that guests rearranged the chairs and took it upon themselves to “fix” the problem? Probably not but I’ve seen odd enough odd ducks who,e on vacation I wouldn’t put it past someone.

I know the early morning chair hogs annoy me to the point I fantasize about throwing their dime store paperbacks in the trash and tossing thei towels in the towel return bins, but I’ve never acted on that impulse. Maybe there’s a rouge guest taking things a little to far. 

Has anyone actually questioned Marriott or resort management? If it is resort management I think if enough owners complained the practice would stop rather quickly.


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## geist1223 (Mar 30, 2019)

I take my Leatherman with me everywhere. It has traveled Mexico, Hawaii, Ireland, Scotland (where they call it a Gentleman's Tool), France, Canada, Fiji, New Zealand, Australia, etc.


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## AJCts411 (Mar 30, 2019)

I demand they FREE THE CHAIRS!....Tee shirts anyone?


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## LUVourMarriotts (Mar 30, 2019)

I seem to be on the opposite side of the viewpoint here.  While I think zip ties is likely not the best solution, there is obviously a need to do this for Ocean Pointe management, and probably most other resorts, which just haven't done it yet.  We see, regularly, people moving lounge chairs wherever they want.  I don't recall ever seeing any of these people put the chairs back when they are done.  Last summer at Barony, a woman took lounges and put them into the pool at the zero entry area.  She was asked every day we saw her NOT to do that, but she still kept doing it, because she 'wants to'.  During that same stay, there was a large group traveling together.  They couldn't find a grouping of lounge chairs together, so they went around and grabbed every extra they could find and created a huge glob of lounge chairs right next to the main pool.  Nobody could walk anywhere in that area, except for them.  Again, staff came and asked these people not to do that.  We've seen similar at OceanWatch, Surf Watch, and other locations.

It would be great if there was no need to zip tie chairs together, because guests kept them where they were.

My 2 cents, not trying to offend anyone who thinks differently.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 30, 2019)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> I seem to be on the opposite side of the viewpoint here.  While I think zip ties is likely not the best solution, there is obviously a need to do this for Ocean Pointe management, and probably most other resorts, which just haven't done it yet.  We see, regularly, people moving lounge chairs wherever they want.  I don't recall ever seeing any of these people put the chairs back when they are done.  Last summer at Barony, a woman took lounges and put them into the pool at the zero entry area.  She was asked every day we saw her NOT to do that, but she still kept doing it, because she 'wants to'.  During that same stay, there was a large group traveling together.  They couldn't find a grouping of lounge chairs together, so they went around and grabbed every extra they could find and created a huge glob of lounge chairs right next to the main pool.  Nobody could walk anywhere in that area, except for them.  Again, staff came and asked these people not to do that.  We've seen similar at OceanWatch, Surf Watch, and other locations.
> 
> It would be great if there was no need to zip tie chairs together, because guests kept them where they were.
> 
> My 2 cents, not trying to offend anyone who thinks differently.



No offense taken by me. Personally, I see this as a failure to enforce rules because people throw to large of a temper tantrum. If they could find a way t9 enforce the rules, stuff like this wouldn’t be necessary. 

Trying to not offend the few sometimes ends up offending the many. It will be interesting to see the final solution


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## Bucky (Mar 31, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> No offense taken by me. Personally, I see this as a failure to enforce rules because people throw to large of a temper tantrum. If they could find a way t9 enforce the rules, stuff like this wouldn’t be necessary.
> 
> Trying to not offend the few sometimes ends up offending the many. It will be interesting to see the final solution



But, more importantly IMO, are there any rules posted saying don’t move the chairs! Hard to enforce a rule that in many cases has not been posted and actually isn’t a rule, but a request! Moving chairs around the pools has been happening since timeshares were invented, probably. To expect there not to be a hissy fit when the accepted all of a sudden becomes the unacceptable Is just not going to happen. These are the types of issues that should be addressed in the GM’s letter that usually goes out once a year explaining any changes to be implemented.


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## mdurette (Mar 31, 2019)

Bucky said:


> But, more importantly IMO, are there any rules posted saying don’t move the chairs!



True, I don't think I have ever seen that rule posted at a resort.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 31, 2019)

Good point. I’m not aware of any stated or written rule about moving chairs. Only about throwing a towel or cheap book on one to reserve it when your not at the pool.


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## Superchief (Mar 31, 2019)

In my experience at many timeshares and resorts, the chairs are grouped so closely together (early in the day) that you basically have to move them to even be able to sit down. I don't think there is a problem if people rearrange the chairs as long as it is done in a reasonable manner and not obstructing walking paths or other people's space. I believe the chair hogs often exacerbate the problem by 'reserving' all of the lounges in the sun/shade. When that happens, the only option is to move a chair to the desired location. The key is respect for others, something that seems to be less prevalent today. 

Since the sun and shade locations change throughout the day, the moving of lounge chairs should be expected. I hope Ocean Pointe management reconsiders this practice because it actually just makes the situation worse and will likely upset many owners and guests.


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## csalter2 (Mar 31, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Good for the zip tie manufacturer, bad for MVC resort owners/guests.
> 
> Clearly an overreaction to a perceived problem.  I would be surprised if this approach is not abandoned before too long.



What is the “perceived” problem?


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## Fasttr (Mar 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> What is the “perceived” problem?


Do you think they zip tied them for no reason?  Clearly they perceived a problem they felt they were remedying by zip tying them together, or why do it? I am not them, so I have no idea what problem they perceived they were solving.


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## csalter2 (Mar 31, 2019)

My thought is that Marriott probably should have sent some sort of notification to owners just to let them know of the change and its purpose for the change.  That I am in agreeement with others here. 

However, there are a lot of renters that stay at the resorts as well. The rules for moving furniture if not posted would lead one to do as they please. Also, as one poster above pointed out, that some people believe they are above the rules and do as they please.  They feel entitled and that rules do not apply to them. Marriott like most in the hospitality business, do not like confrontation with their guests.  However, what they often forget particularly with a timeshare product where owners are concerned, others are watching their consistency in enforcing rules and will fall in line for the good of their product if they feel it is worthwhile and fair.

Many like to complain about issues, but don’t like corrective action if it’s not to their liking.  If an issue is being addressed by doing this, sit back and see its results.


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## csalter2 (Mar 31, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Do you think they zip tied them for no reason?  Clearly they perceived a problem they felt they were remedying by zip tying them together, or why do it? I am not them, so I have no idea what problem they perceived they were solving.



I have never been to OceanPointe.  I am a new owner there.  I just was asking the question.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 31, 2019)

Superchief said:


> In my experience at many timeshares and resorts, the chairs are grouped so closely together (early in the day) that you basically have to move them to even be able to sit down.


Cruise ships are the same way. They literally put them touching side by side. By the end of the day there is usually a lot of space between the chairs. Why don't they just set them up that way to start out with?


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## dioxide45 (Mar 31, 2019)

Even if there are rules in place to not move chairs, people will still move them. It seems perhaps that they wanted to cut a staff member or cut their hours to save some $$$, so they invented this idea to make it quicker to resituate the chairs at the end of the day.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> What is the “perceived” problem?



If I were to guess, I’d say they were trying to keep them on the pool deck and off the open grassy areas. I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone attempt to take them out onto the beach when we’ve been there. Honestly I’ve never seen people moving the chairs as much on an issue. They’re either following the sun or the shade. BUT, we’re there in December and not during high season or heavy family summer season


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## GreenTea (Mar 31, 2019)

I would absolutely use nail clippers or scissors to free the chairs and put them however I wanted


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## GreenTea (Mar 31, 2019)

#FreeTheChairs


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## csalter2 (Mar 31, 2019)

GreenTea said:


> I would absolutely use nail clippers or scissors to free the chairs and put them however I wanted



If you’re kidding, hahaha! If you’re not, then you’d be an example of those who feel entitled to do as they please regardless of rules and what may be in the best interest of all.


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## Kel (Mar 31, 2019)

It would bother me to not be able to move my chair to stay in the shade as the sun moves.  It's a bad idea to zip tie the chairs together.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> If you’re kidding, hahaha! If you’re not, then you’d be an example of those who feel entitled to do as they please regardless of rules and what may be in the best interest of all.



Guess you’d have to lump me in that group as far as this one goes, and I’m pretty staunch on following rules. We aren’t pool people. We almost never use lounges except to keep our towel if we happen to use one of the hot tubs. And yet this practice, if true, irritates me to the point I’d be willing to buy a cheap pair of wire cutters, get up early and start clipping.

Pool toys I understand. No splashing I understand. No running on the pool deck I understand. Not taking lounges to the beach I understand. Not putting lounge chairs in the zero entry entrerence of a pool I understand. Insisting guests remain in place even though the sun moves I do not understand and I feel it diminishes the resort as a whole.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 31, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> If you’re kidding, hahaha! If you’re not, then you’d be an example of those who feel entitled to do as they please regardless of rules and what may be in the best interest of all.



I think in this case people are wondering "What rule?" because it isn't stated anywhere as a rule not to move the chaises.  If there's no rule, then why are they tied together so people can't move them?


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## Bucky (Apr 1, 2019)

Has anyone even bothered to ask management what’s going on? Theoretically they might not even know this has happened. Could have been a bunch of kids trying to drive a bunch of old folks nuts! I highly doubt that but at least they could get an explanation as to why this has been deemed necessary!


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## dougp26364 (Apr 1, 2019)

Bucky said:


> Has anyone even bothered to ask management what’s going on? Theoretically they might not even know this has happened. Could have been a bunch of kids trying to drive a bunch of old folks nuts! I highly doubt that but at least they could get an explanation as to why this has been deemed necessary!



If I were inresidence, I’d be asking them and providing my opinion if management is doing this. As it is I’d have to make a phone call. By the time we arrive next winter, the issue will likely be resolved or, I’ll be complaining loudly onto MVC corporate offices


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## Superchief (Apr 1, 2019)

This policy will also result in a lot of unusable lounges. Who is going to sit in a chair that is 'attached' to a stranger?


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## KarenP (Apr 1, 2019)

We were there last October during Fall Break.  I never noticed any problems with people moving chairs way out of the place where they started.  They may have moved them a little bit, but not that much!


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## NJMOM2 (Apr 1, 2019)

Superchief said:


> This policy will also result in a lot of unusable lounges. Who is going to sit in a chair that is 'attached' to a stranger?


That is exactly what I keep thinking reading this thread.  If you have three people in you party, who is sitting on the chair attached to one of the three or is that chair going to remain empty?  I would not be happy sitting so close to a stranger.


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## bazzap (Apr 2, 2019)

Surely there must be at least one TUG member at Ocean Pointe, now or in the very near future, who can raise this with the resort management team to get a clear statement on the whys and wherefores?


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## Pompey Family (Apr 2, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Surely there must be at least one TUG member at Ocean Pointe, now or in the very near future, who can raise this with the resort management team to get a clear statement on the whys and wherefores?



I was just about to post the same thing before reading Barry's post, all this speculation yet not one person is in a position to obtain a direct answer from the resort?


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## mjkkb2 (Apr 2, 2019)

I got a ‘non’-manager that first told me that it’s to make them heavier to prevent being moved by wind.  After I asked why the Cobia pool area didn’t need it she admitted she wasn’t sure why.
I will try to find the GM tomorrow....


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 2, 2019)

Ocean Pointe is currently without a GM.   

JP is or has taken another job within the Marriott organization (I believe a promotion) and as far as I know no one has yet to be named.



.


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## mjkkb2 (Apr 3, 2019)

I spoke with Jeff (position unknown) and was told that they tied the loungers to prevent people from moving them creating obstruction for people to pass especially people with disabilities.  According to Jeff, there were many complaints about people not being able to pass due to loungers being scattered about the walking paths etc....


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## Superchief (Apr 3, 2019)

mjkkb2 said:


> I spoke with Jeff (position unknown) and was told that they tied the loungers to prevent people from moving them creating obstruction for people to pass especially people with disabilities.  According to Jeff, there were many complaints about people not being able to pass due to loungers being scattered about the walking paths etc....


I hope there are enough complaints that will convince them to stop this practice. This is a case in which the solution for a minor problem causes major problems for many and diminishes the resort experience. Wouldn't it be easier just to have an employee politely request the offenders to move their chairs to create more walking space? Sometimes the chair set up in the morning provides no space to even get to the chairs.


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## Fasttr (Apr 3, 2019)

mjkkb2 said:


> I spoke with Jeff (position unknown) and was told that they tied the loungers to prevent people from moving them creating obstruction for people to pass especially people with disabilities.  According to Jeff, there were many complaints about people not being able to pass due to loungers being scattered about the walking paths etc....


The OP described the chairs being zip tied in pairs.  If somebody wanted to move a chair, I highly doubt having 2 chairs tied together would prevent them from moving the chairs and seems more likely with 2 stuck together there would be more walkways potentially blocked than if the chairs were solo.


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## Old Hickory (Apr 3, 2019)

jimf41 said:


> Right track but the wrong tool George. Razors are too dangerous use a small pair of dikes (wire cutters). Much safer and quicker.



Can you get those through TSA security?


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## capjak (Apr 3, 2019)

Sounds like a safety issue:  I think the first person moving a double chair that gets a back injury or cut or otherwise injured and resulting in potential medical costs etc.... will probably end this practice...what next take all pool chairs away....


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## jimf41 (Apr 3, 2019)

capjak said:


> Sounds like a safety issue:  I think the first person moving a double chair that gets a back injury or cut or otherwise injured and resulting in potential medical costs etc.... will probably end this practice...what next take all pool chairs away....





Isn't that what most parents do when the children don't play nice in the sandbox?


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## Quilter (Apr 7, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Surely there must be at least one TUG member at Ocean Pointe, now or in the very near future, who can raise this with the resort management team to get a clear statement on the whys and wherefores?



I'm the OP and also still at the resort.

Before talking to anyone in management I wanted to know if this tactic is practiced at other properties.   I've been watching the responses and so far I haven't seen one post saying that it is.   

Surely other resorts deal with chairs being moved as to obstruct pathways and, somehow, it is addressed.   Safety and Security makes passes around the pool areas several times a day.  When they talk to guest directly about an issue others notice.   A nice reminder to leave enough room for walkers, etc. to pass would get the message to many more than the offending folks.   Ever notice someone being told not to throw the ball in the pool?   Lots of people see and get the message.

Securing 2 chairs together doesn't stop the obstruction.   Without knowing it I did that very thing on the first day I saw the lounges strapped together. . .

We had friends staying at the resort.   They were all on lounges by Sailfish pool.  I tried to move a lounge nearby to chat for a while.  Wasn't planning to stay long.   When I found they were all strapped into pairs we found 2 chairs and moved them by the lounges.   After a while my friend noticed a man trying to figure out how to get his walker through.  We apologized and adjusted our chairs.

If you're not familiar with the configuration of the chairs by Sailfish pool, at this spot there are 2 rows of lounges.   A back row against the foliage and a front row by the pool's edge.   A path in between and a path between the front line and pool edge.   I don't know what was blocking the path between the front lounges but we were at the far end of the "in between" path and blocking the entrance (if you needed to get a wheeled device through).  

Strapping the chairs together seems to waste more spots as people will put an unused lounge between them and their neighbor.  From my balcony I've watched the staff reposition pairs of lounges at night when they're cleaning up so it's not preventing lounges from being moved.

I'm planning to put in my guest comments about this.   

Another issue here is safety in the parking garages.   It's a completely different topic and deserves it's own thread, but since many reading this thread also stay at OP I'll mention it here as an FYI.  I've watched children (many times under the age of 5) run through the garages in their excitement to get to the pool or be the first to push the elevator button.   I've lost count of the times.   There are stop signs at the crosswalks.   Not all drivers stop.   Besides that, when you are stopped you can't see if a child is exiting the building and getting ready to run across the walk.   It's been brought to the attention of the pertinent person in management and we've been told they're going to implement some more safety measures.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 7, 2019)

Dennis Nau takes over as the new Ocean Pointe General Manager on April 22nd.   I believe all these issues should be brought to his attention.




.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 7, 2019)

Quilter said:


> Ever notice someone being told not to throw the ball in the pool?


I have yet to see someone told not to throw a ball in the pool. This is one of my peeves at pools. Especially worse when three people are throwing it between them as it tends to consume a lot of pool space that no one can really swim in.


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## jerseyfinn (Apr 7, 2019)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> I seem to be on the opposite side of the viewpoint here.  ...
> 
> It would be great if there was no need to zip tie chairs together, because guests kept them where they were.
> 
> My 2 cents, not trying to offend anyone who thinks differently.




Yes, it's worth pondering just why management would take what appears an awkward step. I believe it's a consequence of a changed business concept co-mingled with our changing society that loses the ability to conceive of Life beyond the"me" pronoun.

Bigger picture here is to realize that the Recession irrevocably changes the Marriott TS paradigm. For Marriott it's both a dream come true as well as a defensive business move to protect the product. For we legacy owners it results in a write down of the relative value of our resort ownership and a slow devolution in the character of ownership queues at our resorts. Call this our 1st MVC disconnect.

How quickly these things change depends upon the vibrancy/participation of legacy ownership which is most perceptible during high season resort weeks with higher owner-occupancy. We felt more kinship with our fellow owners. Recall the sky high in-season occupancy rates of owners each year at MPB.

Nominally we legacy folks become 'soft adversaries' to MVC as high season legacy ownership temporarily reduces high season inventory to the Trust. The Recession solves part of this Trust problem as a chunk of owners is forced to sell their weeks & MVC scoops those precious platinum weeks up from many resorts where Trust inventory was an early issue.

Ultimately a relative synergy exists between we multiple week legacy folks & Marriott. Especially when we acknowledge the 2nd MVC disconnect which is to enroll our legacy weeks and utilize them in the points system. ( IMO, presently a good deal for both sides at this moment). We purchased quality destination travel and we still receive this experience walking the parallel legacy/Trust paradigm.

But now we get to the 3rd MVC disconnect which is only apparent at certain resorts; mostly those high occupancy high season places where legacy owners felt deeper affinity with their resort & the teams who manage them. The Recession attrition of legacy ownership diminishes owner input
 but more important it dilutes the legacy presence & sense of shared ownership and interest.

Still very palpable at Ocean Pointe where lots of happy legacy folks still reunite with old friends with Trust folks mixed in. But take note of the scores folks doing previews at nearby Ocean Palms who stay just long enough to use their cash certificates and give aways. These folks don't feel the sense of awareness about fellow guests. It's a small, insidious thing & I'm not knocking all of these folks as the business of America is indeed business & previews are a quid pro quo. Honestly speaking, that's how lots of us got into legacy timeshare.

Not all legacy owners would notice these small changes: Ft Lauderdale a long example of low owner use/participation with lots of traders coming in. Likewise Oceana Palms was only in legacy developer sales for 2+ years before the Trust locks down all of the unsold inventory. So unlike Ocean Pointe where owner synergy remains evident, it fades at Oceana Palms. Mind you people still form friendships & yearly relationships with fellow travelers there, but the sense of "home resort" is diminished as we're diluted into new groups. Trust point owners don't possess the same journey into  destination travel that legacy owners have. Once again, not everyone will notice these things as the 3rd MVC disconnect is a small, insidious process that varies by resort.

Ultimately, time moves on with or without you regardless of whether you enrolled and didn't enroll your weeks. We keep to our routines, enjoy family, friends and travel, but we also notice "changes" at our resorts which sometimes seem odd or unnecessary. This is the 4th MVC disconnect which is ironically also disconnected from Marriott itself.

It doesn't take much to realize we all presently live in a very chaotic, divided nation. I'm not touching the political manifestation. But I do wade into the societal waters which are frothy & irrational. I'm a retired Boomer trying to figure all of this out & what-the-hell is happening around us. Like I say, America has a pronoun problem as many individuals today only acknowledge the pronoun "me".

Things are beyond gnarly, yet there remains hope. But in a practical sense, not everyone possesses a sense of context, respect, & admitting there are ways to behave in public & still possess your individuality. American politics turned zero sum and so too do our interactions with each other often become zero sum coyote ugly.

I'll step down from my podium rock and end by saying that if you visit Ocean Pointe watch closely how folks today behave/misbehave. Loss prevention has their hands full & a lot of their job is now more about misbehaving guests.

There's still plenty of hope for our future, but the numbers of people who selfishly see themselves at the center of the universe today is significant enough for beleaguered individuals and businesses to take steps that to many of us appear contrite or confusing like tying chairs together. For me, it's a measure of how bad things are getting & in the larger context makes absolute sense.

My wife and I continue to show respect, but we've seen many instances of downright bad behavior at Ocean Pointe. We feel for the folks who experience it and hats off to management who has an impossible task.

Now if only I were at Ocean Pointe right now, I could head to Drunken Goats & be both an older goat and a drunk.

barry


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## hangloose (Apr 7, 2019)

Quilter said:


> I'm the OP and also still at the resort.
> Before talking to anyone in management I wanted to know if this tactic is practiced at other properties.   I've been watching the responses and so far I haven't seen one post saying that it is.



Quilter-
We visited the pool at the JW Marriott Grande Lakes in Orlando when staying at Lakeshore Reserve recently during their pool renovation.   The JW Marriott also zip tied their pool chairs together in pairs.

For those wondering what this looks like at Ocean Pointe, I've attached a few photos.   Ocean Pointe has only done this at the Sailfish pool, which is primarily the kids/family pool.   The Sailfish pool also has fixed umbrella locations which were concreted into the ground a year or so ago when they renovated the pool area.


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## NboroGirl (Apr 8, 2019)

Quilter said:


> I'm the OP and also still at the resort.
> 
> Before talking to anyone in management I wanted to know if this tactic is practiced at other properties.   I've been watching the responses and so far I haven't seen one post saying that it is.



I was at Grande Vista recently and it was not a practice there.  No lounge chairs were tied together, at least not at the smaller pools.  And people were moving them around all the time, myself included.  People wanted chairs in the sun and/or facing the sun.


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## Quilter (Apr 8, 2019)

We've been here at OP since the beginning of March.  We also had a 2 week stay Jan.-Feb.   For us, the "home" feeling changed significantly the last week of March as many of the people we recognize have gone back home.   Other than a familiarity with the area and well known staff it is now an experience akin to booking any resort for sake of location and amenities. 

I can't come to the same conclusion that the problem around the pool is a "21st Century American Me Attitude".   I'm 67 and grew up in the segregated South.   Talk about a attitude of entitlement.  Then go back to Merry Ol' England in the Victorian Age.    Now look at the current practice of rich Middle Eastern countries hiring workers from the Far East to do their menial labor.  Or maybe you've experienced driving in Italy and noticed a "me" mentality as recklessness puts the lives of others at risk.   Those are just a pin prick of examples that remind us that "me mentalities" (aka personal bubbles) is a people problem.  

"Me" attitudes aren't new, and they aren't confined to America.

Back to chairs being tied together at OP.   Simply put, what's the problem?  People have individual desires for their vacation experience in a crowded environment.  Does strapping the chairs together solve this?   I conclude that it doesn't and it only goes further as to create a sense of bitterness to the vacation experience.   Bitterness towards the resort and bitterness towards the others occupying the same space.


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## controller1 (Apr 8, 2019)

So have you talked to management yet?


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## csalter2 (Apr 8, 2019)

Now before I write this, let me qualify this and tell you I am of AARP eligible.  That being said and for all the whining and complaining about these chairs, I have come to the conclusion that we have a bunch of old fuddled duddies and/or party poopers here on our site.  

Let’s just go have fun and vacation.  Let the chairs be! Follow the rules and get with the program.  Not everyone can be made happy.  Don’t worry. Be happy.


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## Fasttr (Apr 8, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> Now before I write this, let me qualify this and tell you I am of AARP eligible.  That being said and for all the whining and complaining about these chairs, I have come to the conclusion that we have a bunch of old fuddled duddies and/or party poopers here on our site.
> 
> Let’s just go have fun and vacation.  Let the chairs be! Follow the rules and get with the program.  Not everyone can be made happy.  Don’t worry. Be happy.


Until you get your MF's invoice and realize there is a new line item called zip ties.  ;-)

And if we can't whine and complain, what would we have threads about??


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## Bob B (Apr 8, 2019)

Looking at those pictures, that would be very uncomfortable for me. Often times I'll just sit and have a drink or a bite, keeping one leg/foot on the outer side of the loungers. Could not do that with this (IMO) moronic practice. Horrible decision by MOP.


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## Superchief (Apr 8, 2019)

hangloose said:


> Quilter-
> 
> 
> For those wondering what this looks like at Ocean Pointe, I've attached a few photos.   Ocean Pointe has only done this at the Sailfish pool, which is primarily the kids/family pool.   The Sailfish pool also has fixed umbrella locations which were concreted into the ground a year or so ago when they renovated the pool area.
> ...


Were all the chairs around the Sailfish pools ziptied, or just the ones in the areas with multiple rows? The more I think about this, the more ridiculous this policy is. Who wants to be 'attached' to the person next to them while relaxing by the pool while on vacation. They could at leas only tie one end of the chairs so you could angle them so you aren't rubbing arms.


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## hangloose (Apr 8, 2019)

Superchief said:


> Were all the chairs around the Sailfish pools ziptied, or just the ones in the areas with multiple rows? The more I think about this, the more ridiculous this policy is. Who wants to be 'attached' to the person next to them while relaxing by the pool while on vacation. They could at leas only tie one end of the chairs so you could angle them so you aren't rubbing arms.



The Ocean Pointe Sailfish pool chairs are zip-tied in pairs, with some singles on the ends.   Both rows, front and back.  The Sailfish pool area is more family/kid friendly than the Cobia/Pompano pool (more adult focused).  

We are at Ocean Point this week along with Quilter.  If time allows, I will try to ask around to find out the reason Ocean Pointe management chose to zip tie chairs and at only the Sailfish family/kid pool.  

My guess is that OP took these actions based on one or several of the following:

Reduces staff work cost/labor required to move chairs back at end of day

Simplifies chair layout on pool deck, especially around fixed umbrellas 
Alleviates concerns (safety?) on blocking walking paths, ie. ADA compliance
Limits risk of chairs being placed in undesired resort locations (not sure exactly where these would be?)
Good

Organized structured chair layout   
Clear walking paths
Cons

Limited flexility to "self organize" chairs for your family and/or desired location/chair number/grouping
Challenge to get in/out of the a chair if zip-tied together.  It can be annoying and hard with no room on the sides.  
Sitting next to (within inches) of someone you don't know if on a zip-tied chair pair.  (I personally like a little bit of space between my family and others.)
Risk of unused chairs (families with odd numbers leaving a single chair, those who aren't comfortable sitting so close to a stranger, etc)
My 2 cents.  I am not a fan of zip-tied chairs.  I'd rather be allowed flexibility in chair placement and number, at the cost of a bit more effort from resort staff to manage during the day and end of day.  However, I will certainly not let this impact my family's ability to enjoy our vacation.   We love Ocean Pointe's broader amenities and layout far more than allowing chair setup to impact our vacation and family memories.


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## AJCts411 (Apr 9, 2019)

Zip tied chairs...I would say OK, BUT, I want at least a 12" block between the chair to create my personal space. I'm single and you are discriminating.   Point is, if you make similar absurd demands as the absurdity of managements actions, then the the original absurdity goes away.   If the reason is walkways or landscaping, or keep off the grass (sod kind)...then define the walkways in such a way that one can not put a chair there.  BUT I will bet you will hear the howling the minute they post the cost in the budget.  Reality is, there is no win when there is plain old ignorance and "me" crowds.  And Oh (joking)... they need to put cables on the chairs so they can't wander too far.


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## bbodb1 (Apr 9, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Until you get your MF's invoice and realize there is a new line item called zip ties.  ;-)
> 
> And if we can't whine and complain, what would we have threads about??



Which way the TP goes....
How to properly load the dishwasher....

...oh wait.....


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## hangloose (Apr 9, 2019)

AJCts411 said:


> Zip tied chairs...I would say OK, BUT, I want at least a 12" block between the chair to create my personal space. I'm single and you are discriminating.   Point is, if you make similar absurd demands as the absurdity of managements actions, then the the original absurdity goes away.   If the reason is walkways or landscaping, or keep off the grass (sod kind)...then define the walkways in such a way that one can not put a chair there.  BUT I will bet you will hear the howling the minute they post the cost in the budget.  Reality is, there is no win when there is plain old ignorance and "me" crowds.  And Oh (joking)... they need to put cables on the chairs so they can't wander too far.



I personally also like about a foot of space between the chairs next to strangers, to allow room to walk and room for personal space (your bubble).  Enjoyed the joke on cabling the chairs. .

Note:  There are single chairs on the ends of nearly all rows, which are NOT zip tied at all. They are free to move and many do move them.  Not sure what percentage of chairs are single non-zip tied...but seems lower than a normal 80/20 ratio split.

Cobia/Pompano pool and spas are all individual chairs, free to move as needed.  No zip ties.


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## mjkkb2 (Apr 10, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> I have yet to see someone told not to throw a ball in the pool. This is one of my peeves at pools. Especially worse when three people are throwing it between them as it tends to consume a lot of pool space that no one can really swim in.


I have been asked on his trip.  No throwing a ball of any kind in the pool. 
I have also been asked not to throw a ball at Oceana Palms pool.


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## suzannesimon (Apr 10, 2019)

I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about people moving chairs. I really can’t imagine what problem someone is trying to correct. My only thought is people may be removing towels from “vacant” chairs and moving to a different location to avoid a confrontation if the chair hog returns.


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## Superchief (Apr 11, 2019)

suzannesimon said:


> My only thought is people may be removing towels from “vacant” chairs and moving to a different location to avoid a confrontation if the chair hog returns.


Another alternative is to move the chairs with the towels to another location. Then if anyone asks 'did someone take our towels' you can truthfully answer 'no'.


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## GreenTea (Apr 12, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> If you’re kidding, hahaha! If you’re not, then you’d be an example of those who feel entitled to do as they please regardless of rules and what may be in the best interest of all.


No, not kidding.  I am not sitting in a chair attached to someone else's child.....creepy.  I'm not sitting in a chair attached to someone else's husband.....creepy.  I'm not sitting attached to my own husband if he wants the two zip tied chairs down to lay, and I want to sit up and read.  I'm a rule follower.  In this case i would be a hell raiser with nail clippers freeing my chair to sit as I wished.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 13, 2019)

At Smuggs West Hill pool we always move the chairs around. Some people also like to turn their towards the sun or towards the mountain notch view. Friends come by and want to sit together. People move he umbrellas- whatever it takes to make them comfortable! They are on vacation!

At Pollard Brook, the way they have the lounge chairs set up- no one really has a need to move most of them. Maybe just a few. Sometimes just the chairs around the eating tables get moved- that's about it. 

I never heard of such a thing- zip tying the chairs! Ridiculous!~ Like George said- I'd be bringing a razor or a knife or scissor!

Before you know it you will have to bring your own chairs to these resorts!


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## Larry M (Apr 13, 2019)

Quilter said:


> At the pool most popular with families the management team at Ocean Pointe has decided to zip tie the pool chairs into pairs.   This keeps guests from rearranging the seating pattern.  As you can imagine, it's not a popular idea.
> 
> Are there other MVCI resorts that do this?





hangloose said:


> While I understand the desire from resort/pool staff to keep chairs organized, I personally find the experience of having chairs zip tied together poor.   For example, they are hard to walk between, leave you inches from a stranger, allow limited mobility (if you want sun/shade/etc), etc.  I hope they reconsider.


It's not ALL the chairs, just individual pairs. How hard can that be?

Larry


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## hangloose (Apr 13, 2019)

Larry M said:


> It's not ALL the chairs, just individual pairs. How hard can that be?
> 
> Larry



Correct.  Not ALL chairs zip tied together.  Zip tied chairs are done in pairs of two.  First two rows of chairs at Sailfish pool.  There are a few single chairs on the ends of some rows, but not every row.  Those single chairs are independent with no zip tie.  There is a small third row/section behind the shrubs closer to the water which has no zip ties on any chairs but still at Sailfish pool.   I think it is where the outdoor massages used to be.  I would say in total that probably 80-90% of chairs at Sailfish pool are zip tied in pairs.


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## Quilter (Apr 13, 2019)

I did have a chat with manager of pools on Thursday right before I checked out.   I’ll edit this post after dinner to tell what I found out.

Now at SurfWatch.


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## Quilter (Apr 13, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> Now before I write this, let me qualify this and tell you I am of AARP eligible.  That being said and for all the whining and complaining about these chairs, I have come to the conclusion that we have a bunch of old fuddled duddies and/or party poopers here on our site.
> 
> Let’s just go have fun and vacation.  Let the chairs be! Follow the rules and get with the program.  Not everyone can be made happy.  Don’t worry. Be happy.



Discussion on this thread is not from fuddies  duddies or party poopers.  It is a reasonable questioning of a decision by one or more members of a management team...not owners.  If you go back to the original post you won’t find a complaint.  You’ll find a statement of fact and a question asking if this is practiced at other resorts or even hotels.

No need to look for a group to dis.


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## Quilter (Apr 13, 2019)

There were 3 things I wanted to ask about before leaving OP.  I did some watching and research before asking for a meeting with a manager.  Dan Ingram was a previous manager of buildings and grounds and was always very open to feedback from owners.  He said more eyes on the property made his job easier.  This was the first time I met with the new manager. 

1st item.  Parking garage safety.  I knew another owner had this discussion with him so all I added was another mirror showing guests coming out of elevator vestibule would help drivers at the stop sign. 

2nd item.  Chair straps.  Inspectors can come through the property at any time and they have issued citations for not having adequate walkways around the sailfish pool.  Not all areas are as affected as the rows directly by the pool.  More monitoring means more personnel.  The straps have helped but have not been a complete cure.

3rd item.  Red lights in Cobia pool.  Light reflection on the buildings from new LED lights have caused citations from turtle police.  The manufacturer of current lights has only 3 turtle friendly colors.  Red, orange and amber.  Bulbs are expensive.  Trial was with Cobia pool.  Manager admits red is too red.  Amber (yellow) was too close to looking like pee.  Orange may be tried next.  The old lights weren’t a problem because they had a warmer glow.  Now they are difficult or impossible to find.  Anyone know of a supplier?  I researched dimming the LED lights in a pool.  I’m no electrician and read conflicting responses to the question. 

Manager said they have even been given citation when a guest has moved pole lamp to middle of the window.  Pole lamps are in corners and obstructed by curtains.


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## Quilter (Apr 13, 2019)

Sat by pool at SurfWatch today.  I watched others and one of the first things they did when claiming a chair was tweak the spacing or position.

Tweaking was not related to age.


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## controller1 (Apr 13, 2019)

Quilter said:


> 3rd item.  Red lights in Cobia pool.  Light reflection on the buildings from new LED lights have caused citations from turtle police.  The manufacturer of current lights has only 3 turtle friendly colors.  Red, orange and amber.



This answers a question I've had about a completely different resort.  Thanks.  Makes sense!


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## Superchief (Apr 14, 2019)

Quilter said:


> 2nd item.  Chair straps.  Inspectors can come through the property at any time and they have issued citations for not having adequate walkways around the sailfish pool.  Not all areas are as affected as the rows directly by the pool.  More monitoring means more personnel.  The straps have helped but have not been a complete cure.


Does it appear that management plans to continue strapping the chairs together despite complaints from guests? Is the new manager receptive to owner and guest 'suggestions'? I would expect guest satisfaction to be more important than orderliness of the chairs. Thanks.


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## TravlinDuo (Apr 14, 2019)

I wonder if staff or management thought of adding painted lines where necessary to indicate areas that must not be obstructed by chairs and also add signage for guests so they can "help eliminate citations."  As others have already mentioned, I would want to be able to stand next to my lounge chair and would not like being "strapped" to another guest who is a complete stranger.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2019)

I don't think anyone is going to end up at a pair of chairs with a stranger. People will end up just leaving those loungers empty thus causing less supply of chairs. I wonder if this is just something implemented for peak season and will go away when slow season starts?


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## Quilter (Apr 14, 2019)

Superchief said:


> Does it appear that management plans to continue strapping the chairs together despite complaints from guests? Is the new manager receptive to owner and guest 'suggestions'? I would expect guest satisfaction to be more important than orderliness of the chairs. Thanks.



It's my understanding the new manager is effective April 22.

I have one voice and gave my opinion.   I suggested the current amount of Safety and Security could be more effective in letting the guests around the pool know they need to provide enough room for the freedom of movement.  I also pointed out that strapping the chairs together wasted chairs because people would leave a single chair between them and their neighbor.   This was rebuffed with the comment that all the chairs are occupied in the summer.   My response was that they were occupied by a towel.   This was going to take the conversation down a rabbit trail and I wanted to keep the meeting on point and within a reasonable amount of time so I went back to my primary question "What is the problem and does strapping the chairs together fix it?"   It was agreed that it is not a perfect fix.   

I don't know how much the strapped chairs has affected the satisfaction surveys.


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## Quilter (Apr 14, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think anyone is going to end up at a pair of chairs with a stranger. People will end up just leaving those loungers empty thus causing less supply of chairs. I wonder if this is just something implemented for peak season and will go away when slow season starts?



I think the only slow season at OP are cloudy days.  One day it was cloudy, not cold, and the pool water was very warm.   There was maybe 20 people around the Sailfish pool.  Lots of people using the other amenities (corn hole, shuffleboard, putt putt golf).   Later the sun came out and the lounges began to fill.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 14, 2019)

I know if the guest satisfaction scores go down the BOD will certainly take notice. They seem to obsess over those scores at the Grande Vista annual BOD meeting. I believe those scores also play a part in the property being able to carry the brand. If the scores are too low, they could lose the Marriott name. Thus why they work hard to keep those scores up.


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## mjkkb2 (Apr 15, 2019)

Quilter said:


> It's my understanding the new manager is effective April 22.
> 
> I have one voice and gave my opinion.   I suggested the current amount of Safety and Security could be more effective in letting the guests around the pool know they need to provide enough room for the freedom of movement....


I agree.  I also wasn't informed during check in that reserving of loungers was not allowed.  

The security personnel's attention to 'chair policy' was non existent (at Cobia pool at least).  I haven't noticed them removing any unaccompanied towels except when asked by my party.  One interesting thing I learned is the fact that they can review security footage to determine who and what time placed the towels on the chairs.
One time we ask them to remove belongings from 4 front facing chairs that we watched being unused all morning.  One worker said that that they have to give people 45 min warning, to which we stated that it's been hours the chairs sat empty.  The proceeded to call someone over the radio who after a few minutes stated that towels were placed on these at 7:30 am(after reviewing the video).  I am not sure I noticed any cameras to be frank.


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