# Thank you TUG! Saved $20k with RCI



## Stratagem (Jan 16, 2015)

*Thank you all for the great articles and advice on TUG! * My wife and I bought a week at Regal Vistas at Massanutten with 57k RCI points from Great Eastern over the holidays for 20k.  Luckily within a few days I found this forum and was able to rescind.  Confirmed the refund is in the bank this morning.

We really like the idea of timeshares and will figure out all the details from the wealth of forum knowledge on how to do a resale transfer, although may start with renting for a bit.  *First a couple of newbie question, would really appreciate any insights:*

1) Living in Northern VA, would like sufficient points for 2-3 weeks of stays every year at Virginia Beach, Outer Banks, Florida, Caribbean, Hawaii, etc.  With 4 kids some of the stays will be peak times and big or double rooms.  Any recommendations on the best program providing a good mix of flexibility and availability?

2) How many RCI or other program points would I need based on this desired level of travel?

Any other suggestion or advice would be greatly appreciated.  You'll see me around on the forum as it is a tremendous resource.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 16, 2015)

Start doing a LOT of READING.... 

Seems your dream list was truly NOT what you almost brought. Mountains of VA is not the coastline of the Atlantic Ocean.

Additionally, some of those dreamy places might have NONE or FEW timeshare resorts .. but summer inventory will be few & far between, Get out the RCI and II member directories and look at their maps and resort listings.

Hawaii has lots of times shares .. but would you be going every year and what time of the year?

Florida beaches in the summer can be exchanged into ... but much harder during Spring break.

Again, RCI Points is just ONE program ... there are many companies with chains of resorts...


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## 55plus (Jan 16, 2015)

Spread the word about this website to your friends and maybe you'll save them tens of thousands of dollars too...


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## Stratagem (Jan 16, 2015)

morrisjim said:


> Spread the word about this website to your friends and maybe you'll save them tens of thousands of dollars too...



Will do, starting with my parents.

We really liked the Massanutten Resort and will likely go back.  However we like lots of spots and would like the ability to go multiple locations.

I am pretty good with all the details of airline miles so I am assuming that the TS game has similar nuances.  Basically if you take the time to get into the weeds and can plan ahead you can get some great deals.  We are becoming more stuck with school schedules but can usually work around it some.


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## Passepartout (Jan 16, 2015)

The best advice I can offer is to keep looking at your favorite places and times to come up as resales. All East coast, coastal resorts are scarce and expensive during prime (read school vacation) time. They DO come up, so it's a matter of right place/time.

Buying into point systems helps some, but is no guarantee of access at peak times. Time sharing can mean getting up at oh-dark-thirty at exactly the date you can reserve a hard-to-get resort.

Welcome to TUG. We're glad you saved a tidy pile of money by rescinding a retail purchase. Just wait til you score a $3000/week rental for a few hundred in MF and an exchange fee.

Jim


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## winnipiseogee (Jan 16, 2015)

Congrats Stratagem - 

I love this website.  I found it the day I was supposed to spend $23k on a package at a resort near my house.  I was able to buy the same thing on ebay for less than a thousand a few weeks later.    TS have been awesome for us.   We've always traveled extensively but once we had babies it just seemed too darn expensive and way too darn hard.

We love the bedrooms, kitchen, and laundry facilities that come with timeshares.   Combine that with the fact that we average about $700 a week for 2bdrms in great locations and its just awesome.  

You are right its all about getting into the weeds and learning all the nuances.  Do lots of research first.  We ultimately decided we needed RCI points, Wyndham points and II weeks to do what we want.  I continually debate adding a Marriott week.  

Learn before you buy.  It can be hard to sell if you buy the wrong thing.

Best of luck and again congrats!


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Start by renting.  Every location you rent at, every quality level of TS that you rent, and every level of amenity you try out will better educate you as to what you really want -- or at least what really works best for your family.

When you stay at a particular location, walk around (daytime and nighttime); see what places are convenient, well laid out, well maintained.  Are views important; if so, who has them?  Is a lazy river "essential"?

Trust me: this kind of onsite research isn't all that bad.

Take your time; prices aren't going up and as the last poster correctly notes, the wrong unit can be an albatross.  
Ask questions -- both here and to owners when onsite.  
You already know the most important thing:  don't buy retail.


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## TUGBrian (Jan 17, 2015)

Happy new years, we are so glad you found us in time and saved so much!

when you check into your first timeshare you bought resale for pennies on the dollar, you simply wont be able to beat that smile =)


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## theo (Jan 17, 2015)

*Yessa!*



vacationtime1 said:


> Start by renting.  Every location you rent at, every quality level of TS that you rent, and every level of amenity you try out will better educate you as to what you really want -- or at least what really works best for your family.
> 
> When you stay at a particular location, walk around (daytime and nighttime); see what places are convenient, well laid out, well maintained.  Are views important; if so, who has them?  Is a lazy river "essential"?
> 
> ...



+1. Excellent advice. Renting is an education, purchasing is an obligation. Following the proper sequence of events is important to your future, long term satisfaction.


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## Conan (Jan 17, 2015)

I find there's better availability if you own a resort that trades in the RCI Weeks system as opposed to the RCI Points system. Although owners in RCI Points are given a free RCI Weeks account, RCI Points owners don't get to see 100% of the RCI Weeks inventory.

The key in RCI Weeks is to own a week that when deposited into RCI will give you the greatest RCI Weeks trading power in relation to its annual maintenance cost (and to a lesser degree, to the price you paid to buy it).

You mention Virginia Beach and Outer Banks. If Myrtle Beach also appeals to you, I think your best bet is to buy a resale summer week at a good Myrtle Beach area resort - - either a fixed peak summer week (27 through 32) or a floating week that can be reserved in that period for deposit into RCI.

RCI Weeks trading power is also measured in points, called trading power (TP) points. So for example, if you were to buy a summer Myrtle Beach week for $2,000 where maintenance costs $800/year, then over ten years your cost per year would be $2,000/10 + $800 = $1,000. (This is a rough approximation and assumes zero resale value.)

If that week can be traded for 50 TP points (which only the highest demand RCI deposits can hope to get), you can expect those 50 points will get you two weeks or more in RCI trades. 

If you spend your 50 TP points on two trades in a year, your cost for two weeks is $1,000 (from above) plus two $209 RCI exchange fees plus a bit more for the year's RCI dues. Rounding that to $1,400 you're getting two weeks vacation at a total cost of $100/night. 

If you travel off-season or to high availability areas like Orlando (or Massanutten!), the same 50 TP points can get you four weeks, bringing the cost per night to ($1,000 + 4*209)/28 = $65/night

You could always simply use the week you own. This avoids the RCI exchange fee but of course you only get one week of vacation that year for your $1,000 = $143/night.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 17, 2015)

My fixed weeks deposit for 60+ TPUs for $880 MFs ....

My RCI Points at the same resort get me 66,000 RCI Points plus Home Resort booking ($40 exchange fee) plus VRI priority in RCI Points a month ahead of the booking window for the regular RCI points reservations.

Additionally ... if NOT an RCI Points week --- I can deposit the week in II.

And all the 2/2 units at this resort are LOCKOFFs.


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## czar (Jan 17, 2015)

Besides RCI, you may want to consider a resort system (e.g., Bluegreen, Marriott, Starwood, etc.) that might provide you with more internal flexibility or priority. For example, some systems have trading priority in exchange programs like II. As others have said, do your research. With kids and varied interests, it's likfky there's no "perfect" answer for a TS that will get you where you want to vacation every time. But you want to find something that provides flexibility and is rentable those times when you can't get what you want.


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## Stratagem (Jan 17, 2015)

Thank you all for the detailed advice.  Had assumed points were more flexible but clearly there are availability and priority issues that need to be considered.

A few follow ups:

Which approach's (points/weeks) and programs are a better choice if you are looking for 3-4 days at a stretch vs a whole week at a time?

Is there general agreement that it is better to own a tradeable week at a high demand resort and trade into a lower demand resort if you want to go versus owning a lower demand resort?

Thx


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## Passepartout (Jan 17, 2015)

Less than 7 night stays generate additional housekeeping costs. My system generally charges $75 for a short stay. These numbers vary.

As to trading up or down, I suspect you'll find a level of comfort/luxury that appeals to your family and will exchange to stay in that level accommodations.

Jim


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## czar (Jan 17, 2015)

Stratagem said:


> Thank you all for the detailed advice.  Had assumed points were more flexible but clearly there are availability and priority issues that need to be considered.
> 
> A few follow ups:
> 
> ...



I've owned HGVC, Stareood, and DVC. Starwood now has the ability to book outside of one week at s reasonable time in advance. The issue is that the resorts that are most desirable are hardest to book, esp at times when kids are out of school. 

Just as an example, let's say you owned a random non-Starwood resort and wanted to go to Harborside at Atlantis. Starwood decides which weeks to put in the pool, and they're not going to be summer weeks or Christmas time or Pres week. Whatever weeks they do out in, other Starwood owners have preference in II before other people. It's possible to get Atlantis with a non-Stateood week, but my point is that there are many variables to understand why and how exchanges work. I made a personal decision to forego RCI and II exchanges in lieu of owning within the resort systems that made sense for us, but even then, nothing is certain or easy. 

I'd suggest you might want to spend some time on the exchange boards to see how and why people get what they do. There are certainly great trades out there, but the people who own prime weeks in prime places are using or renting them, so make sure you have realistic expectations regarding when and where you'll be able to go.


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## winnipiseogee (Jan 18, 2015)

Personally I use Wyndham Club Access points for most of my 3/4 day stays.  I'm not in love with their resort network but they have 2 or 3 properties the kids really love and its so easy and consistent that we book all of our long weekends here.  We do also use our RCI points for less than a week stays but availability isn't as consistent - although when you find things they can be awesome bargains.  A couple of days ago I was able to snag 4 nights in a 2 bedroom during 2015 April vacation week and its costing me about $89/night all in (this was using RCI points).

As to weeks our kids are young right now (2 and 4) so we aren't really tied to school vacation weeks and we can travel a lot.  I've tried buying high demand weeks at low maintenance fee resorts.  This allows us to get into properties like Marriott's Surf Club in Aruba for about $700/week for a 2 bedroom.   Once our kids hit about 4th grade I figure I will have to buy into the higher cost weeks at the actual resorts I want (say Christmas at Marriott St. Kitts).  

This plan works for me because it allows me to check everything out for half the price of renting before we commit big $$ to buying Marriott weeks.

Also I don't personally ever believe in buying the lowest demand weeks at any resort unless you are absolutely certain you will personally use those weeks yourself.  Most of the time I find its easier and cheaper to rent those weeks than it is to pay MF.  If thats the case I don't think they are worth the $1 they sell for.


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## elaine (Jan 18, 2015)

We have 3 kid and live in NOVA. We bought 2 summer beach fixed week timeshares to use--now our kids don't really like the beach. We still go to Hilton Head every other year and use that one, and trade the off years and the other week. I like RCI points better than weeks, but have gotten good trades with both.  Since our vacationing habits changed, if I had it to do all over again, I might have bought into a mini-system like HGVC. I like the HGVC properties,nice beds, good amenities, etc.  I like Marriott also, but resale cannot convert to points (see many posts on TUG about this), so I would go with HGVC. 
So, if you have the $$$, I would recommend HGVC system, buying resale (Seth Nock, who sells resale HGVC, get favorable reviews on this BB and my friend liked him). There is a new HGVC in Myrtle Beach, so maybe you could get a resale linked to that for easy access to summer reservations.  I think a mini-system is the easier, and safest first timeshare purchase.  You can also use a mini-system to stay partial weeks. 
hgvc is also building a new resort on Hilton Head. HGVC also has very good properties in Hawaii, California, and decent ones in Orlando. You can also (for now) trade via RCI and stay at DVC, which is one of my kids' favorite timeshares.  Massanutten is a VERY easy trade with RCI--no reason to own there.  If you want VA beach, I liked Turtle Cay very much. I would think a summer resale week there would trade very well. 
Never buy a non-prime week--it has zero (or negative) value and you would have difficulty even giving it away. I don't even totally "trust" trading, flex weeks, etc., so I have only bought prime summer fixed weeks, or flex/points weeks that were tied to a prime summer underlying week--in case the system-trading ever changed and I wasn't stuck with something I would never use.  Might have cost a bit more, but I had peace of mind.  Ex, my RCI points are tied to a week in HHI that floats weeks 25-32 (prime summer vs. tied to a winter week). Good luck. Elaine


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## LynnW (Jan 18, 2015)

Conan said:


> I find there's better availability if you own a resort that trades in the RCI Weeks system as opposed to the RCI Points system. Although owners in RCI Points are given a free RCI Weeks account, RCI Points owners don't get to see 100% of the RCI Weeks inventory.
> 
> The key in RCI Weeks is to own a week that when deposited into RCI will give you the greatest RCI Weeks trading power in relation to its annual maintenance cost (and to a lesser degree, to the price you paid to buy it).
> 
> ...



I have always been told by RCI that points members are able to see all the weeks inventory as well. What makes you think that they can't? Maybe it depends on which resort your points are from?

Lynn


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## elaine (Jan 18, 2015)

I can always see all RCI weeks with my points account.  I have checked many different scenarios--beach weeks, Europe, Fla, Calif, Canada, Carib. I have also had MUCH better luck with RCI points in booking DVC, esp. at prime time such as Easter. On the other hand, 2BR cost more in RCI points than comparable cost in  weeks--so I get better "bargains" in weeks when booking a 2BR, as none can be over 60.
I also like that RCI points can only be booked at non-home resorts 10 months out (not including what you can see over on the weeks side). I would rather wait for right at 10 months and get my trade vs. having to commit almost 2 years out for something good.  It gets really hard to plan with teenagers/clubs/sports, etc.  At 10 months, I usually have a school schedule, etc.


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## Conan (Jan 18, 2015)

LynnW said:


> I have always been told by RCI that points members are able to see all the weeks inventory as well. What makes you think that they can't? Maybe it depends on which resort your points are from?
> 
> Lynn



My comment was based on the understanding that Weeks deposits from properties that _participate_ in RCI Points are omitted from RCI Points searches. Say I own a week at Palm Beach Shores, and I've never paid the $3,000 they charge to convert that week into the Points system. I can deposit that week as an RCI Weeks member, and nobody who's searching with RCI Points will see it because Palm Beach Shores (the Resort itself) _participates_ in RCI Points?

The RCI Points website used to list RCI Weeks availability (restricted as above, and looking up to two years forward) separately from its RCI Points availability (looking only ten months forward). Now as far as I can tell they're lumped together so its hard to tell what's what.

But I just searched Palm Beach Shores (#4856) in RCI Weeks and found 77 units. Then I searched Palm Beach Shores (#4856) in RCI Points and found 358 units. Does this make me wrong about how the system works currently? Are Points people allowed to see Weeks deposits from Points-participating properties nowadays?


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## tschwa2 (Jan 18, 2015)

It was that way a couple of years ago but no longer.  Even when you viewed them separately and couldn't see beyond 10 months at a points resort, if you knew the weeks inventory was there you could call and have am agent book the weeks inventory at the points resort.

Now I see more inventory in points.  Also in general it seems like cancelled inventory shows up in points 30-60 minutes before it shows up in weeks and this is regardless of whether the dropped hold was from a weeks or points account.

I like weeks because for 75% of what I want to book in the inventory I can get it cheaper using tpu's but 25% either end up cheaper in points or is available only in points.


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## Stratagem (Jan 18, 2015)

elaine said:


> Never buy a non-prime week--it has zero (or negative) value and you would have difficulty even giving it away. I don't even totally "trust" trading, flex weeks, etc., so I have only bought prime summer fixed weeks, or flex/points weeks that were tied to a prime summer underlying week--in case the system-trading ever changed and I wasn't stuck with something I would never use.  Might have cost a bit more, but I had peace of mind.  Ex, my RCI points are tied to a week in HHI that floats weeks 25-32 (prime summer vs. tied to a winter week). Good luck. Elaine



Really appreciate the feedback.  Question on this as I'm not sure I fully understand this sentiment which has been expressed on several threads.  My understanding is that every TS tied to RCI points has a fixed number of points tied to it.  More in demand locations and timeframes get higher points and vice versa.  However, even if your location and week has a lower value the points associated with it don't change do they?  You can use the points for what you can get or buy/rent additional points if you need them.

Say you have a low/mid demand location that gets 50k annual points, but the MF are relatively low.  You get those same points every year regardless of the demand for your particular week right?  Your ability to access any specific week on RCI is only tied to your available points not the specific property you own correct?  (Also recognizing some of the differences in when you can see availability for weeks vs points owners, etc)


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## Passepartout (Jan 18, 2015)

That's pretty much right.


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## elaine (Jan 18, 2015)

Others here are more knowledge than me, but it is my understanding that most points (at least the TS that I own) are tied to an underlying week. I think HGVC are also tied to an underlying property and season.  I don't know anything about Wyndham.  None of my TS are in the mini-systems (as there really weren't any at the time at the beach locations I wanted). I wanted good underlying weeks, in case RCI changed the points structure in the future, or some other machination occurs (I have been with RCI for 20 years--lots of changes in 2 decades), I didn't want to be left owning something that I would never want/use. I would not be as concerned where HGVC was, as I feel that all their properties are very nice.
I am probably more conservative than most. But, it's still pretty easy. I bought an EOY RCI points week that has an underlying 2BR summer week at HHI for under $1K. I'm sure I could have bought points at a lesser resort/time for much less, but it was worth it for me to get the summer week. I have traded that week for summer in So.Cal, DVC 4x and Bermuda in the summer. FYI-none of those trades were available in RCI weeks. good luck. Elaine


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## ronandjoan (Jan 19, 2015)

Stratagem said:


> Really appreciate the feedback.  Question on this as I'm not sure I fully understand this sentiment which has been expressed on several threads.  My understanding is that every TS tied to RCI points has a fixed number of points tied to it.  More in demand locations and timeframes get higher points and vice versa.  However, even if your location and week has a lower value the points associated with it don't change do they?
> 
> Say you have a low/mid demand location that gets 50k annual points, but the MF are relatively low.  You get those same points every year regardless of the demand for your particular week right?



Our experience and others have confirmed this is that RCI TPU numbers CAN change...


When that happened to us, I could not trust RCI to assign the same number of TPU and they even changed them after I deposited; ( and also since their exchange fee kept going up)thus, we seldom use RCI.


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## ace2000 (Jan 19, 2015)

ronandjoan said:


> When that happened to us, I could not trust RCI to assign the same number of TPU and they even changed them after I deposited; ( and also since their exchange fee kept going up)*thus, we seldom use RCI.*



I recall that you were using Wyndham and assumed you were supplementing those points with RCI Last Calls, etc.  What else do you use to keep your costs down?


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## LynnW (Jan 19, 2015)

Conan said:


> My comment was based on the understanding that Weeks deposits from properties that _participate_ in RCI Points are omitted from RCI Points searches. Say I own a week at Palm Beach Shores, and I've never paid the $3,000 they charge to convert that week into the Points system. I can deposit that week as an RCI Weeks member, and nobody who's searching with RCI Points will see it because Palm Beach Shores (the Resort itself) _participates_ in RCI Points?
> 
> The RCI Points website used to list RCI Weeks availability (restricted as above, and looking up to two years forward) separately from its RCI Points availability (looking only ten months forward). Now as far as I can tell they're lumped together so its hard to tell what's what.
> 
> But I just searched Palm Beach Shores (#4856) in RCI Weeks and found 77 units. Then I searched Palm Beach Shores (#4856) in RCI Points and found 358 units. Does this make me wrong about how the system works currently? Are Points people allowed to see Weeks deposits from Points-participating properties nowadays?



It seems that we are able to see them all now. I was looking at resorts in Carlsbad CA which are all points resorts and I was able to see all the weeks inventory. I was waiting until 10 months out before booking as the exchange fee for points is less. Ended up having to book it as a week because there was no points inventory available for the week I wanted. I do know that not long ago you had to call if you wanted to check weeks availability at points resorts.

Lynn


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## pedro47 (Jan 20, 2015)

To the OP please keep on sharing the word about this web site.  That Knowledge is Power about buying and owning  a timeshare.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 20, 2015)

LynnW said:


> It seems that we are able to see them all now. I was looking at resorts in Carlsbad CA which are all points resorts and I was able to see all the weeks inventory. I was waiting until 10 months out before booking as the exchange fee for points is less. Ended up having to book it as a week because there was no points inventory available for the week I wanted. I do know that not long ago you had to call if you wanted to check weeks availability at points resorts.
> 
> Lynn



Lynn, even though they are listed as RCI points, I don't believe they ever sold RCI points.  This is the way most developer controlled non RCI points, points resorts are listed with RCI.  The Carlsbad resorts are managed by Hilton and Hilton can deposit inventory on the points side or the weeks side.  Unlike true RCI points that come available at 10 months, Hilton can deposit points inventory at any time.  So it makes it harder to predict and use.  If it had been deposited at points inventory then it would have had the lower weekly fee.  This would be the same for Wyndham, DVC, Bluegreen, and others.


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## LynnW (Jan 20, 2015)

So even if they are managed by GPR they are still part of Hilton?

Lynn


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## tschwa2 (Jan 20, 2015)

I think that the units that you see deposited as points are those that are associated with Hilton.  The weeks inventory can come from HGVC or non HGVC inventory.


http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/california/

I could be mistaken but I don't believe rci points were ever sold directly by GPR.


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## ronandjoan (Jan 23, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> I recall that you were using Wyndham and assumed you were supplementing those points with RCI Last Calls, etc.  What else do you use to keep your costs down?




We very seldom use RCI.  And I will repeat that - we very seldom use RCI

We have to plan so far out that  Last Calls don;t work for us - and the Extra Vacation offerings have not worked for us either - either too much $$ or poor choices for us. 

Neither do we find that the Wyndham-RCI Portal is cost effective for us since it takes so many  Wyn points and adds the RCI exchange fee on top of that.

We supplement our owned stays with weeks deposited in Platinum Interchange, DAE, or SFX, and use their bonus weeks to advantage and therefore pro=rate our MF to 1/2 or 1/3


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