# WSJ - Coral Vista Villas phase



## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

Dear THOMAS,

It’s an exciting time at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As an Owner here, you’re the first to know about an extensive renovation project that will solidify your resort as one of the premier destinations in the Caribbean. I am pleased to announce that we will be converting select hotel rooms to villas for the new Coral Vista Villas phase. Additionally, a variety of enhancements are being made throughout the entire resort for your future enjoyment.

We appreciate your patience during this journey to elevate the resort experience. Please look for additional information in the next couple of days.

Sincerely,
Suzanne Clark Signature
Suzanne Clark
Vice President, Owner Services



Introducing
Coral Vista Villas

Buildings 21, 22 and 23 in the lower hillside section will be converted to 54 spacious studio and two-bedroom villas overlooking Great Cruz Bay. What you can expect:

• 	Stylish and contemporary furnishings
• 	Sales begin this October
• 	Construction to begin this December
• 	Occupancy will begin January 2015 with final completion expected April 2015
• 	Once completed, there will be 200 vacation ownership villas at the resort.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 1, 2013)

Tom - I already posted this on the WSJ thread...
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1536221&postcount=1477

I assume that this will be it's own HOA like speculated previously, and told to me during an Owner's Update that it cannot be an extension of BV.  These new buildings will cause further devaluation the VOIs of VG and BV. (supply/demand)


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## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

The next three buildings will only feature studios and 2-bedroom units. No 3-bedroom units or 1-bedroom units. Since the email did not mention 2-bedroom lofts, I might assume none of them either.


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm going to leave it in this thread, because I think it's of more general interest than the "BIG" thread.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Tom - I already posted this on the WSJ thread...
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1536221&postcount=1477
> 
> I assume that this will be it's own HOA like speculated previously, and told to me during an Owner's Update that it cannot be an extension of BV.  These new buildings will cause further devaluation the VOIs of VG and BV. (supply/demand)



I missed it.....


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 1, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> I'm going to leave it in this thread, because I think it's of more general interest than the "BIG" thread.



Fine by me - I would like to hear others opinions (and facts) on this.

I missed that they will only be 2Bd and studios - that helps the 1Bd owners in VGV as those will be the only 1Bd available.

My opinion - as mentioned - it will further devalue the VGV and BV VOIs due to an increase in supply (unless people figure out they can rent from owners instead of WSJ/SPG at a large savings).

Those who brought BV to be closer to the pool and resort should have waited.


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## vistana101 (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks for the info! Its great to see so many things happening around the resort. I just checked the Westin Website and I saw the Cruz Bay Prime closed, does anyone know why or have any specifics?


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## pharmgirl (Oct 1, 2013)

Any estimates on how many villas this will be?


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2013)

From the first post:  54 spacious studio and two-bedroom villas


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## pharmgirl (Oct 1, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> From the first post:  54 spacious studio and two-bedroom villas



Oops, thanks
Interested, but hope there will be some that sell as floating, find fixed to be too rigid for us
We've rented from owners and once exchanged into WSJ press week using  Maui


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## LisaH (Oct 1, 2013)

Will Westin St John be 100% timeshares after this project is completed?


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 1, 2013)

LisaH said:


> Will Westin St John be 100% timeshares after this project is completed?



No - there will still be B10-B12 and B14-B16


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## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

We have two trips planned for next year.....May and July. 

Hopefully, the construction will not be impacting both of these trips.


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## czar (Oct 1, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Those who brought BV to be closer to the pool and resort should have waited.



Is this because these units are even closer?  I'm assuming that these are the ones slightly lower and to the right if BV as you look up the hill?

I wonder if hear will be flex season like BV. How does the number of these units compare to BV?

I'm curious because I was planning to buy a BV summer float week but now I'm thinking it might be better to wait...although BV barely had a view so this section will probably have even less if a view.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 1, 2013)

czar said:


> Is this because these units are even closer?  I'm assuming that these are the ones slightly lower and to the right if BV as you look up the hill?
> 
> I wonder if hear will be flex season like BV. How does the number of these units compare to BV?
> 
> I'm curious because I was planning to buy a BV summer float week but now I'm thinking it might be better to wait...although BV barely had a view so this section will probably have even less if a view.



Some of the Bay Vista had views....not the sweeping vistas of the hillside units. 

This is the view from our unit. The new phase is the next row down, you can see one of the roofs.


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## Carolyn (Oct 2, 2013)

I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value. Considering that St. John is one of the most desired Caribbean islands AND the WSJ is a nearly impossible exchange, I would think their "value" would increase. And hopefully this would also prompt the 1 Bedrooms value in Staroptions to be increased also. I understand this happened when the 2 BR Bay Vista units were built. Therefore the 2 BR Hillside owners units also increased in Staroptions


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## LisaRex (Oct 2, 2013)

Carolyn said:


> I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value.



SO valuation is all over the place, IMO.  It's not just WSJ.  I just picked up a 3 bdrm at HRA for 125,000 for 5/31-6/4. I can't imagine paying all that $$ in MFs only to get 125,000 SOs.


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## lizap (Oct 2, 2013)

I seriously doubt they will require any more than than Bay Vista.  This is great news for those of us who own a mandatory property, as it will increase availability and our chances for an exchange..



Carolyn said:


> I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value. Considering that St. John is one of the most desired Caribbean islands AND the WSJ is a nearly impossible exchange, I would think their "value" would increase. And hopefully this would also prompt the 1 Bedrooms value in Staroptions to be increased also. I understand this happened when the 2 BR Bay Vista units were built. Therefore the 2 BR Hillside owners units also increased in Staroptions


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## DeniseM (Oct 2, 2013)

Should increase II deposits, too...


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## SMHarman (Oct 2, 2013)

Carolyn said:


> I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value. Considering that St. John is one of the most desired Caribbean islands AND the WSJ is a nearly impossible exchange, I would think their "value" would increase. And hopefully this would also prompt the 1 Bedrooms value in Staroptions to be increased also. I understand this happened when the 2 BR Bay Vista units were built. Therefore the 2 BR Hillside owners units also increased in Staroptions


Your weeks are already at the network max and on parity with HRA and HI (considering HI has a more consistent equatorial climate and year round good weather and the Caribbean is more seasonal).


LisaRex said:


> SO valuation is all over the place, IMO.  It's not just WSJ.  I just picked up a 3 bdrm at HRA for 125,000 for 5/31-6/4. I can't imagine paying all that $$ in MFs only to get 125,000 SOs.


You are also paying for a 12 m booking window and buying where you want to go.


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## alexadeparis (Oct 2, 2013)

*I have stayed in these buildings*

I stayed in this building for the last night of our trip. It was a two bedroom unit that opened on the ground floor and contained a living and dining room, in the size of a large hotel room. Stairs going up led to a bridge overlooking the first floor living/dining combo and the two bedrooms were contained upstairs (one on either side) in spaces where our room on the first floor did not go. Its hard to explain in words, so I will try to represent it here. So I believe that the set up in those buildings is: 


                                  Unit A      /      Unit B               /   Unit C
2nd Floor:             2nd Bedroom    /       Bridge                /  Master Bedroom


1st Floor:              Studio            /  Entry -2 Bd unit  /          Studio


So, I believe that unless they do major structural work, the breakdown of studios will be 36 and there will be 18 2 bedroom units, divided among the three buildings. It is possible that there is some other configuration that I did not see, but based on the way the 2 bedroom unit was, I don't see where else the studios could go.


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## GregT (Oct 2, 2013)

alexadeparis said:


> I stayed in this building for the last night of our trip. It was a two bedroom unit that opened on the ground floor and *contained a living and dining room, in the size of a large hotel room*. Stairs going up led to a bridge overlooking the first floor living/dining combo and the two bedrooms were contained upstairs (one on either side) in spaces where our room on the first floor did not go. Its hard to explain in words, so I will try to represent it here. So I believe that the set up in those buildings is:
> 
> 
> Unit A      /      Unit B               /   Unit C
> ...



That is helpful information -- thank you!

Can you comment further on the size of the Studios?  Can you guess if they will be same size as the Studios in the other phase (the press releases suggests they will be larger?)

Please advise and thanks!


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## letsgomets (Oct 2, 2013)

I've stayed in 21, 22 and 23.  About 1 minute closer to the pool (except 23, which is further than all BV except 27), but doesn't have nearly the views of buildings 24 and 27 in BV.

Interested to see how they configure the 2BR -- they can do it just like the BV units, which is essentially the footprint of 2 side-by-side hotel rooms.  Or they can do it like the prior poster mentioned (I've stayed in the 2BR hotel rooms in 22 and 23), which would actually be somewhat similar to the 2BR+loft layout of BV.


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## Carolyn (Oct 2, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> Your weeks are already at the network max and on parity with HRA and HI (considering HI has a more consistent equatorial climate and year round good weather and the Caribbean is more seasonal)


.

What do you mean by "network max"? My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth *44,000* Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth *67,100 * My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth *51,700* Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth *81,000*


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 2, 2013)

Carolyn said:


> .
> 
> What do you mean by "network max"? My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth *44,000* Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth *67,100 * My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth *51,700* Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth *81,000*



The high season (Plat+) for VGV studios is 67.1K SOs - would you suggest that this be 81K SOs - and on par with a 1Bd in HI?

Plat+ season for 3Bd VGV and 3Bd BV villas are already 196K SOs (and HRA 3Bd in Plat+ is 196K SOs as well) - would you suggest that they also be higher?  

The problem is that you are equating a Plat in HI (highest level) to a Plat at WSJ (2nd level) .

I agree - no way are they going to shift the SOs for VGV anymore (or BV) - the SOs for the new phase is going to be aligned with those (like for like within that region).

The 2Bd Plat+ in the new Coral Vista (CV) phase will almost assuredly be 148.1K SOs, and Plat+ CV studios will be 67.1K SOs (in line with BV and VGV) - and then down from there.

But... why the heck not? Raise VGV up! 
If wishes were fishes - I would throw nets.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 2, 2013)

czar said:


> Is this because these units are even closer?  I'm assuming that these are the ones slightly lower and to the right if BV as you look up the hill?
> 
> I wonder if hear will be flex season like BV. How does the number of these units compare to BV?
> 
> I'm curious because I was planning to buy a BV summer float week but now I'm thinking it might be better to wait...although BV barely had a view so this section will probably have even less if a view.



The villas are closer to the water and pool, and lower down the hill by one level (not unsteep) - the view may not be as expansive as VGV, but it will be a closer view of the water (and resort).  Not for me, but others may prefer.

I would assume that they will follow BV in regards to float and fixed - as well as seasons, MFs, and SOs.


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## Cornhusker (Oct 2, 2013)

Very interesting.  The sales people were quite tight lipped about the renovations at my  owners update there a few weeks ago.  They were really pushing the BV 3BD and 2BD Lofts in Gold season, where most of their inventory remains.  They treated VG like a separate entity of militant separatists.  I will admit the 2 BD Lofts are pretty nice.

I guessed the sudden Sgt Schultz syndrome about the upcoming renovations were aimed at selling the "dwindling" VOI remaining in BV.  That being said, the owners update at WSJ was pleasant compared to all the other resorts I have visited to date.


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## czar (Oct 2, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> Very interesting.  The sales people were quite tight lipped about the renovations at my  owners update there a few weeks ago.  They were really pushing the BV 3BD and 2BD Lofts in Gold season, where most of their inventory remains.  They treated VG like a separate entity of militant separatists.  I will admit the 2 BD Lofts are pretty nice.
> 
> I guessed the sudden Sgt Schultz syndrome about the upcoming renovations were aimed at selling the "dwindling" VOI remaining in BV.  That being said, the owners update at WSJ was pleasant compared to all the other resorts I have visited to date.



In mid-August they went as far as telling me that this project was not
approved and no funding was in place so it would not happen in the near future. Hmmm...a lot has changed in 6 weeks.


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## Cornhusker (Oct 2, 2013)

czar said:


> In mid-August they went as far as telling me that this project was not
> approved and no funding was in place so it would not happen in the near future. Hmmm...a lot has changed in 6 weeks.



Yes it has, comrade czar.  I had read a lot about the rumors but did not press them in the update.  I pressed more for VG inventory and played the mandatory card instead.  The conversations, as always, lead to enlightenment eventually.  

I think we will be quite interested in a VOI at WSJ because we just loved the island and want to return again and again.  Just want to make the correct decisions.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> I think we will be quite interested in a VOI at WSJ because we just loved the island and want to return again and again.  Just want to make the correct decisions.



Welcome to the St John Lovers Club! We'll be waiting for you.


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## SMHarman (Oct 3, 2013)

Carolyn said:


> .
> 
> What do you mean by "network max"? My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth *44,000* Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth *67,100 * My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth *51,700* Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth *81,000*



*What do you mean by "network max"? 
*You have to compare apples to Apples here.
http://www.tug2.net/advice/svn_valuechart.pdf
So first acknowledge that SVO has put all of HI as Platinum+ weeks and that there are Hurricane weeks in WSJ that are not Plat+ but Gold+ I've never been there but I read on the WSJ thread that the island kinda shuts down in September / October.

A Hillside Studio in 51-15 weeks is 67,100 points
A Hillside 1Br Prem (51-15) is 81,000
A Hillside 2Br not LO (51-15) is 148,100.  Compare to say the Lakeside Terrace 2Br non LO or HRA non LO 2BR you are doing better here, at Lakside and HRA that is only 129,800 SO.  Same for Bay Vista (but that is 51-18)
3 Bedrooms are also 196,900 this compares to the HRA 3 bedrooms, but those are also LO, not pure 3BR.  This also compares to the Steamboats 3Br units in ski season (48-15).  I'm pretty sure the MF on those is also similarly high.

But to compare to the Steamboat 3Br which is 196,900 in ski season you can get the same unit for 57,700 in mud season which 'Silver'.  Your WSJ unit even with Windstorms bearing down on it is Gold+.

The WSJ and the HRA points charts are pretty much identical, especially on Hillside.  HRA gets a bump on the Thanksgiving week from Gold+ to Platinum and the switchover weeks move a week or so here and ther but that is about the only difference.

How would you propose that the WSJ points chart is revised?  If you gave everyone platinum (like HI) then who would be happy when they found the only week they could book was week 40?  It's already a problem with HI that owners get shut out of summer weeks at 9:05 on a Saturday morning 12 months out.

*My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth 44,000 Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth 67,100  My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth 51,700 Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth 81,000*

Lets rewrite that correctly.



> My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth *44,000* Staroptions.
> A Platinum *PLUS *studio at WKORVN is worth *67,100 *
> My WSJ Platinum X-P-r-e-m-i-u-m-X 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth *51,700* Staroptions.
> This compares to the 1 bedroom Platinum *PLUS *at WKORVN worth *81,000*



If you bought a 51-15 week at WSJ Hillside or 51-18 week at Bay Vista then would have the same StarOptions as a HI purchase.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

First of all, a link to the WSJ map which will help everyone picture where the new timeshares will be located.  (Which makes me wonder if these were just regular hotel rooms before this?)

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

Anyway, I've stayed in bldg 24 before, and the walk to the main resort isn't bad at all.  The main downside, IMO, is the parking issue.  Having to walk up the hill at the end of a long day snorkeling is a minor PITA.  You can hail a golf cart (what do they call these things?), but sometimes it's a long wait.  The new phase will have the same issue.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

Now re SOs, which probably should have its own (civil!) discussion:

I have a few beefs with the SOs, the main being that I think they should be tied with MFs. Ha! But I realize that that ship has sailed and there's no going back unless Starwood does what Marriott has done, and gets into the business of selling SOs outright.  Which I definitely don't want them to do! Marriott's system is now so convoluted that I wouldn't consider buying there anymore.

However, assuming we keep the same multi-tiered structure, IMO, there are a few oddities in the system. 

1)  WLR - most of us know what happened here, but for those who don't, when WLR was first marketed, the SOs were much lower, more in line with SVV IIRC.   It made sense because Cancun lodging is so much cheaper than US properties.  But they weren't selling well.  So they upped the SOs, and put it on par with Hawaii -- a 2 bdrm in Hawaii during platinum plus season is the same SOs as a 2 bdrm platinum plus season in Cancun.  

End result is that it's great for WLR owners who bought from the developer, but out of alignment with reality.  In reality, I can rent a great 2 bdrm in Cancun for about $1000.  Hawaii is double or triple that. No way would I spend 148,100 SOs to get in.  Instead, I'd use II or rent directly from an owner.  

There's no way to realign them lower at this point, however, so WLR will probably always remain an outlier 

2) HRA/WSJ Summer season = platinum season - This, IMO, is the biggest miss.  The bean counters didn't do their due diligence or they'd realize that even though summer in the Caribbean doesn't sound as attractive as winter in the Caribbean, it is absolutely as in demand.  Families love to flock to beaches in the summer, be it to Florida or Hilton Head or the Caribbean.  And even though this would hurt me as a mandatory owner, I think the SO valuation should be increased so that summer months are coded as platinum plus, at least the weeks before hurricane season starts.  

I booked a 3 bdrm at HRA for 125k SOs.  I could have gotten a 2 bdrm for 95.7k SOs.  For the same week in Hawaii, a 2 bdrm would have cost me 148.1k SOs.  Sorry, but that's out of whack.


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## alexadeparis (Oct 3, 2013)

If I had to guess at what size the studios seem to be based on the size of the 2 bedroom, I would say about 900 square feet or so.


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## SMHarman (Oct 3, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Now re SOs, which probably should have its own (civil!) discussion:
> 
> I have a few beefs with the SOs, the main being that I think they should be tied with MFs. Ha! But I realize that that ship has sailed and there's no going back unless Starwood does what Marriott has done, and gets into the business of selling SOs outright.  Which I definitely don't want them to do! Marriott's system is now so convoluted that I wouldn't consider buying there anymore.
> 
> ...


1) Any system will have oddities, and tying SO to MF could easily create an arms race of MF to retail the value of the resort within the system, I concur that this should be rejected.

I'm not sure the analysis of WLR stands though.  Aruba would have followed a similar model to WLR
https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/e...tions/staroptions_charts/svn_dailyoptions.pdf

While there are weeks you can rent a 2Br in WLR for $1,000 and some of them may be during the winter, it is also a massive resort so supply / demand pushes prices down.  Also, even in winter, those weeks you could get a $1k week would be the Gold Plus weeks, though as you note, the summer 24-35 weeks are P+.

Even here where the prices are closest to market there are no $1k 2Brs
http://tug2.com/RnR/TabResortClassi...sortGUID=2d70b884-9304-4cf3-94a8-ccae41ee983d

2) I do think that Caribbean summer is less desirable than HI summer.  East Coasters (and I am a transplant from a far damper climate) tend to stay more local during the summer.  My Wife, a New Yorker would never dream of taking a Caribbean vacation during June-September, "Why travel when there is great weather at home, I'll save those travel $$ for when the weather is cold and dull", and we are heading to HRA in early February (and were at WLR last winter), which takes that statement full circle.


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## Henry M. (Oct 3, 2013)

I bought a  2 BR BV unit this past April, direct from Starwood, despite all the advise against it. I wanted to have guaranteed availability at WSJ the times I wanted to go, after seeing how difficult it was to get so something there. I couldn't find any resale units there. Resales in VG were not that much cheaper, and I actually preferred BV after visiting there (different strokes for different folks - I can see why some would prefer VG, and would encourage them to buy there). I used a $0 resale price in my decision process, though I don't think it will go quite that low. We just liked St. John so much and wanted to  be able to reserve when we wanted to. Platinum is fine for our travel arrangements, don't really want Platinum+, independent of cost. I was already 5* so that didn't matter either. 

They did mention there might be a Coral Vista then (didn't have a name), but they said the renovations wouldn't be quite as extensive (read expensive) as BV. At BV, they tore down the buildings to the foundation. Apparently, they don't plan to go quite that far at CV. Of course, that remains to be seen. I hope the renovations are as nice as BV. I do like to be able to exchange to WSJ, as some years I might want more than one week there.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> Even here where the prices are closest to market there are no $1k 2Brs
> http://tug2.com/RnR/TabResortClassi...esortGUID=2d70b884-9304-4cf3-94a8-cca41ee983d



Well, your link doesn't provide much data to work with. For instance, there are no 2 bdrms for rent at WLR at all.  Secondly, I was talking about Cancun overall, not just WLR.  There are a ton of other highly rated resorts where you can book a 2 bdrm for $1200 in winter on Redweek.   Remember that these are STARTING rates. 

For instance, the Royal Sands is #21 on TripAdvisor (vs. #16 for WLR).  Look at the rental rates:

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P316-the-royal-sands
http://www.tug2.com/RnR/TabResortCl...sortGUID=0f8d953d-eac9-4a4b-a6c9-accddacdf7f5

Now if you just look just at WLR, the prices are, indeed, higher.  But only four have actually rented, and 3 of them were event weeks (Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's week).  The other one was $1000 for a 1 bdrm. 

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P5561...sort_sales=&sort_rentals=bedrooms&send=Submit



> 2) I do think that Caribbean summer is less desirable than HI summer.



Well, yes, but I think the data would suggest that beach locales are as popular in the summer as they are in the winter because the kids are out of school.  I mean, why else would Hilton Head, SC be hopping busy in mid-July? It's hotter than hades and the humidity is through the roof.  Yet...try to book an II exchange to HHI in the summer.  Impossible.  Ditto (apparently) for HRA and WSJ.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

emuyshondt said:


> I bought a  2 BR BV unit this past April, direct from Starwood, despite all the advise against it.



I don't know why anyone would advise against owning something that is so difficult to exchange into, in order to guarantee that I could book the week I wanted.  Those are two very sound reasons why I WOULD buy...though I'd definitely try to find it resale first. 

Soooo, congratulations!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

So... ironically WSJ VGV just had the SOs and SPs upped for 2015 - I do not have SPs since it is resale, but it use to be 22K SPs for my week (2Bd TH Gold+) and is now 51.6K SPs

And, importantly, the SOs have increased from 81K to 95.7K SOs

*****
_More good news for Virgin Grand Villas Owners at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations, your StarOptions® and Starpoints® conversion values will be increasing effective with your 2015 Use Year. 
•More flexibility for longer stays at other resorts in our villa collection
•More opportunities to stay at Starwood hotels and resorts around the world
•Reserve a seven-night stay in all phases of your resort in the same villa type and season you own in Virgin Grand Villas_
*****

 looks like SVO is reading the TUG Starwood Forum {kidding}


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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)




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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)

Looks like all my WSJ units just became 148,100 SO units. 

I just gained an additional 151,200 more SO in 2015 to use.


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## rog2867 (Oct 3, 2013)

I was unable to post the chart, thanks for doing that.   How many units do you have?   We have a two bedroom loft so the extra options are great as we have week 3 it says float but you never can exchange your week.  I hope this might make it a little easier.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

Tom you beat me to it... {wrong... I just saw yours was for BV} - here is VGV


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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)

rog2867 said:


> I was unable to post the chart, thanks for doing that.   How many units do you have?   We have a two bedroom loft so the extra options are great as we have week 3 it says float but you never can exchange your week.  I hope this might make it a little easier.



Three EOY 2-bedroom units at WSJ. Two of them are lofts and the third unit is regular ultra 2-bedroom week. All three units are platinum weeks (summer).


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

So... over the last few years my VGV 2Bd TH (Gold+) has gone from 67.1K to 81K to 95.7K SOs - not sure what I would do with 14.7K extra SOs as I plan my vacations 1 year in advance - and woul duse in HI.  I guess it opens me to more HRA usage.

I am sure the WSJ-VGV 'Coalition' will somehow find this to be a negative... {sarcasm alert}


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## GregT (Oct 3, 2013)

I think Starwood is trying to entice the WSJ owner to not stay at WSJ, but to travel to other properties in the system.

Marriott did this by giving more points value to the Maui Ocean Club when they rolled out DClub, in the hopes that MOC owners would redeem for points and use them elsewhere in the system (my opinion).

From a SVN user's perspective (which I am), I think this is terrific.  I'd be happy to pay more SO's if it increases my chances of actually getting the reservation.  Banking certainly was introduced at a good time to facilitate this (and I'm sure that's not coincidental).

Interesting stuff....

Best,

Greg


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

Very likely with the recent announcement of VGV SO increase..




Carolyn said:


> I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value. Considering that St. John is one of the most desired Caribbean islands AND the WSJ is a nearly impossible exchange, I would think their "value" would increase. And hopefully this would also prompt the 1 Bedrooms value in Staroptions to be increased also. I understand this happened when the 2 BR Bay Vista units were built. Therefore the 2 BR Hillside owners units also increased in Staroptions


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

tomandrobin said:


> Looks like all my WSJ units just became 148,100 SO units.
> 
> I just gained an additional 151,200 more SO in 2015 to use.



Woot!!!!!!!


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> So... over the last few years my VGV 2Bd TH (Gold+) has gone from 67.1K to 81K to 95.7K SOs - not sure what I would do with 14.7K extra SOs as I plan my vacations 1 year in advance - and would use in HI.  I guess it opens me to more HRA usage.



Add an extra day! Remember that you can reserve periods of 7 days OR LONGER at 8 months out.


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

With what you're paying in MFs, you deserve more SOs..



tomandrobin said:


> Looks like all my WSJ units just became 148,100 SO units.
> 
> I just gained an additional 151,200 more SO in 2015 to use.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Add an extra day! Remember that you can reserve periods of 7 days OR LONGER at 8 months out.



yes - but I make my plane reservation 331 days in advance for HI, An extra day means checking out of our OFD at 10am - check-in to another villa at 4pm - just to stay a nite?.

Besides - I still wouldn't exchange out of our 2 weeks at WSJ unless absolutely necessary - and probably would rent it out anyway.


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## LisaRex (Oct 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> yes - but I make my plane reservation 331 days in advance for HI, An extra day means checking out of our OFD at 10am - check-in to another villa at 4pm - just to stay a nite?



That would only happen if you reserved that 8th night separately from your original reservation. I'm proposing making an 8 day reservation from the get go.  

Of course, you own in HI, so why would you use your WSJ SOs to get there anyway?  Are you trying to confuse me?


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## Carolyn (Oct 3, 2013)

This is unbelievable!!!  I have thought about this discrepancy for a couple of years now but just voiced my opinion....what... yesterday! This is more like it considering our maintenance fees AND the most difficult property to trade into. Thank you SVO!!!


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 3, 2013)

Carolyn said:


> This is unbelievable!!!  I have thought about this discrepancy for a couple of years now but just voiced my opinion....what... yesterday! This is more like it considering our maintenance fees AND the most difficult property to trade into. Thank you SVO!!!



I think SVO/SVN was reading your posts and said "Hey, that makes sense" :rofl:


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## lizap (Oct 3, 2013)

I think it just got easier for other mandatory SVN owners with a lot of SOs to trade into (at least for anything but 3 BRs) as many with fewer SOs have been eliminated from exchanging into WSJ using SOs...




Carolyn said:


> This is unbelievable!!!  I have thought about this discrepancy for a couple of years now but just voiced my opinion....what... yesterday! This is more like it considering our maintenance fees AND the most difficult property to trade into. Thank you SVO!!!


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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)

I look the Bay Vista Staroption bump as a bump in resales.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 3, 2013)

lizap said:


> With what you're paying in MFs, you deserve more SOs..



With the extra 151k staroptions, I just picked up another week in a two bedroom or equivalent.


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## Ken555 (Oct 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I think SVO/SVN was reading your posts and said "Hey, that makes sense" :rofl:



I think it also just got easier for them to sell more units there...


Sent from my iPad


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## Carolyn (Oct 3, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> I think SVO/SVN was reading your posts and said "Hey, that makes sense" :rofl:



The truth of the matter is I will NEVER exchange my 2 weeks at WSJ considering I can get into any Starwood property exchanging thru II with my 1 BR SDO  Regardless, I am just happy that SVO/SVN finally placed a higher value on these weeks/villas. And yes, I am 100% positive this has to do with the marketing of the new Coral Vista Villas.


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## grgs (Oct 3, 2013)

GregT said:


> From a SVN user's perspective (which I am), I think this is terrific.  I'd be happy to pay more SO's if it increases my chances of actually getting the reservation.



I absolutely agree!

Glorian


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## pharmgirl (Oct 4, 2013)

So this seems that a 2 BR lo Maui Westin can't exchange into 2 BR WSJ for presidents week  - correct?


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## Ken555 (Oct 4, 2013)

pharmgirl said:


> So this seems that a 2 BR lo Maui Westin can't exchange into 2 BR WSJ for presidents week  - correct?



So sayeth the chart.


Sent from my iPad


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 4, 2013)

pharmgirl said:


> So this seems that a 2 BR lo Maui Westin can't exchange into 2 BR WSJ for presidents week  - correct?



It appears to be the case starting in 2015 - chances are you would not be able to get a SVN exchange into WSJ for Prez week anyway since SVN exchanges into WSJ during high season, or an event week like that, are quite rare.


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## pharmgirl (Oct 4, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> It appears to be the case starting in 2015 - chances are you would not be able to get a SVN exchange into WSJ for Prez week anyway since SVN exchanges into WSJ during high season, or an event week like that, are quite rare.


 
happily we did trade in for prez week, our first time at the resort


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## czar (Oct 4, 2013)

^^ us too - and two different 3br options were avail for Presidents week although couldn't "afford" them if it was 2015


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## czar (Oct 4, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> I think we will be quite interested in a VOI at WSJ because we just loved the island and want to return again and again.  Just want to make the correct decisions.



Agreed. Will be helpful to get specs on units and MF as well as costs compared to BV. We were set on BV because of float and proximity to pool but this could be a better option, depending.


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## LisaRex (Oct 5, 2013)

czar said:


> ^^ us too - and two different 3br options were avail for Presidents week although couldn't "afford" them if it was 2015



Next feature offered by Starwood? The ability to buy SOs!


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

So looks like Studio, 2 bedroom, and 2 bedroom loft:




coral studio by czar44, on Flickr



COral 2br by czar44, on Flickr



Coral 2br Loft by czar44, on Flickr


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

*Close-up if 2br Loft*




closer view 2br loft by czar44, on Flickr


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

Just based on those floor plans, which I assume must be close since they're starting contruction soon, I think I prefer the BV layout better, especially for the loft.  Will be interesting to compare prices and MF.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)

Those units are smaller then the Bay Vista units. 

The Master bedrooms lost the soaking tubs and the 2-bedroom loft lost the sitting room off the bedroom.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)

On the loft, I see that the unit sleeps 8, not 10 and the first floor bathroom is gone. I see that as an issue. 

Overall, it appears that the units take a step backwards. I would hope that pricing would also be less then Bay Vista.


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

Also looks like reg 2br has no direct 2nd br access to bathroom.


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## LisaRex (Oct 5, 2013)

tomandrobin said:


> The Master bedrooms lost the soaking tubs and the 2-bedroom loft lost the sitting room off the bedroom.



Re the 2 bdrm loft: I thought that the BV sitting room was an odd waste of space.  It seemed more like a weird third bedroom.  

I've never used a soaking tub on one of my vacations, except to rinse off all my snorkeling equipment. (Hey, maybe that's why they took it out!) 

I really liked having a bathroom on the main level of the loft.


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## czar (Oct 5, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> Re the 2 bdrm loft: I thought that the BV sitting room was an odd waste of space.  It seemed more like a weird third bedroom.
> 
> I've never used a soaking tub on one of my vacations, except to rinse off all my snorkeling equipment. (Hey, maybe that's why they took it out!)
> 
> I really liked having a bathroom on the main level of the loft.



I see that sitting room as a hybrid space. We wouldn't always need a third bedroom but nice to have a space for a "third" to sleep somewhere out of the way. So this new loft setup seems to lose that advantage.


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## letsgomets (Oct 5, 2013)

emuyshond said:
			
		

> They did mention there might be a Coral Vista then (didn't have a name), but they said the renovations wouldn't be quite as extensive (read expensive) as BV. At BV, they tore down the buildings to the foundation. Apparently, they don't plan to go quite that far at CV. Of course, that remains to be seen. I hope the renovations are as nice as BV. I do like to be able to exchange to WSJ, as some years I might want more than one week there.



From the floor plans and the square footage, CV looks like it's 20% smaller than BV.  Looks like they are generally gutting the hotel rooms rather than building them out that extra bit with BV.


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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)




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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)




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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)




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## tomandrobin (Oct 5, 2013)




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## DavidnRobin (Oct 6, 2013)

The CV building footprints are the same as BV that were remodeled from the same building type when they created the BV phase


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## vistana101 (Oct 10, 2013)

I think the units look great, just a shame they're so much smaller. If anyone wanted to see an updated resort map, this one actually says "Coral Vista Villas"

https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo_media/CMSMedia/PDF/resort_maps/wsj_resort_map.pdf


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 10, 2013)

vistana101 said:


> I think the units look great, just a shame they're so much smaller. If anyone wanted to see an updated resort map, this one actually says "Coral Vista Villas"
> 
> https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo_media/CMSMedia/PDF/resort_maps/wsj_resort_map.pdf



Interesting - that was fast.  Notice how the BV and CV buildings _do not _have same footprints...


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## Henry M. (Oct 10, 2013)

My understanding is that for BV they completely tore down the buildings and built something on the foundation that was left over. They are not doing that for CV, but rather using the existing structure and redoing the exterior walls and interior amenities. I don't know what the old building looks like in terms of hallways and existing rooms, but somehow that has resulted in smaller units, compared to BV.

I looked at the resort on Google Maps, and the BV buildings look a little wider than the buildings that will be converted to CV.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 10, 2013)

emuyshondt said:


> My understanding is that for BV they completely tore down the buildings and built something on the foundation that was left over. They are not doing that for CV, but rather using the existing structure and redoing the exterior walls and interior amenities. I don't know what the old building looks like in terms of hallways and existing rooms, but somehow that has resulted in smaller units, compared to BV.
> 
> I looked at the resort on Google Maps, and the BV buildings look a little wider than the buildings that will be converted to CV.



I corrected my post - I meant to say they do not have the same footprint - but meant that pre-construction BV buildings were the same as the CV buildings - it may be due to the new roofing and AC units (etc) used for BV. Perhaps it could be the different configuration between the 2 that may account for the difference in size.  It would probably be best to compare the 2Bd BV to the 2Bd CV for a size comparison.


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## cincytrvlers (Oct 17, 2013)

No plans to re-open  Cruz Bay Prime at this time ... from Owners  Meeting this week @ WSJ...


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## cincytrvlers (Oct 17, 2013)

No... There will still be rooms  @ WSJ ... those are being renovated right now...


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## Carolyn (Oct 17, 2013)

cincytrvlers said:


> No plans to re-open  Cruz Bay Prime at this time ... from Owners  Meeting this week @ WSJ...



How are all the renovations affecting your vacation? We arrive in a few weeks.
Did you learn anything about the new Coral Vista Villas? Thanks.


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## czar (Oct 21, 2013)

Anyone able to get a pricing sheet yet?


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## Sicnarf (Dec 1, 2013)

I just purchased 2 WSJ-CV VOIs. One VOI with 148,100 SOs ($39K) and another 95,700 SOs ($25K) both during Resort season.  Note that CV sells VOIs based on blocks of SOs (also referred to as Home Options) by season.  CV has 2 seasons:  Diamond (same as Platinum Plus): wks 1-18, 51, 52, and Resort (same as Platinum and Gold Plus combined): weeks 19-50.   However, the number of HOs required the Resort season varies between weeks 19-33 and 34-50.  So, my purchase basically equates to 1 week in a 2BR during Platinum season and another week during Gold Plus season.  But I can check-in any day, in any unit size, and in any duration as limited by my number of HOs.  The reservation period is the same as the rest of SVN (home resort within season = 8 to 12 months)


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## czar (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for sharing that info!


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## czar (Dec 1, 2013)

Sicnarf said:


> CV has 2 seasons:  Diamond (same as Platinum Plus): wks 1-18, 51, 52, and Resort (same as Platinum and Gold Plus combined): weeks 19-50.   However, the number of HOs required the Resort season varies between weeks 19-33 and 34-50.  So, my purchase basically equates to 1 week in a 2BR during Platinum season and another week during Gold Plus season.  But I can check-in any day, in any unit size, and in any duration as limited by my number of HOs.  The reservation period is the same as the rest of SVN (home resort within season = 8 to 12 months)



So I'm guessing from this that you could use your "gold
Plus" options for a shorter stay during summer?  Makes those gold weeks easier to sell I'd guess but also makes me wonder if it will make "platinum" weeks/days more difficult to reserve if people with smaller home options packages want to go for a shorter stay. I'm also assuming that there are different options values for each days?  So someone with a gold Plus week might be able to stay 4-5 weekday days for their allotment of options?


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for the info - did you get pricing on other HO types?
Seems like a good price for 148.1K (from SVO)


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## czar (Dec 1, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for the info - did you get pricing on other HO types?
> Seems like a good price for 148.1K (from SVO)



I think it's cheaper than a BV plat week.


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## YYJMSP (Dec 2, 2013)

It almost seems (based on our developer purchases) that ~$40K is what SVO prices annual VOIs worth 148K at initially...


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## Sicnarf (Dec 2, 2013)

The only other price I got is for 176,700 SO's (1WK in 2BR) during Diamond/Platinum PLus season for $52k.


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## Sicnarf (Dec 2, 2013)

czar said:


> So I'm guessing from this that you could use your "gold
> Plus" options for a shorter stay during summer?  Makes those gold weeks easier to sell I'd guess but also makes me wonder if it will make "platinum" weeks/days more difficult to reserve if people with smaller home options packages want to go for a shorter stay. I'm also assuming that there are different options values for each days?  So someone with a gold Plus week might be able to stay 4-5 weekday days for their allotment of options?



Actually, the Gold Plus week will allow you to stay 3-5 nights depending on what day you check-in and assuming same size unit.  Less nights if you are upgrading to a larger unit, and more nights if you are downgrading to a smaller unit.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 2, 2013)

YYJMSP said:


> It almost seems (based on our developer purchases) that ~$40K is what SVO prices annual VOIs worth 148K at initially...



Which ones are these: The VOIs that were (or are) sold for WKORVN (IV) and WPORV (at 148.1K SOs) were ~$50K and ~$56K, respectively - with very high MFs.  I assume cheaper for 148.1K SOs at resorts like WLR and WDW and VV-Amelia (etc) - but WSJ is high-end resort (w/ high MFs) and more in line with WKORV/N and HRA (etc).

So... I am having a hard time deciphering what is being offered at WSJ-CV - what are the costs (purchase and MFs), what are the conditions, how are SOs and HOs different?

No mention has been made to MFs - what are they and how are they determined?
Are HOs and SOs the same - and just branded differently?

Maybe I will call Sales directly and ask...


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 2, 2013)

Sicnarf said:


> Actually, the Gold Plus week will allow you to stay 3-5 nights depending on what day you check-in and assuming same size unit.  Less nights if you are upgrading to a larger unit, and more nights if you are downgrading to a smaller unit.



and importantly - based on availability...


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 2, 2013)

OK - some data (and less speculation) - and some repeat...
{and sorry if I jotted some data down incorrectly - so use at your own risk...}

WSJ-CV will work like WLR (Cancun) in that deeds are held by a Club and not by Owners - and the Owners get SOs - which are the same as Home Options (HOs) when used within the Home Resort period - effectively no difference between SOs and HOs - just fancied up some.  Not sure if there will be a difference in exchanging in/out of WSJ-CV in terms of SO usage.

WSJ will have studios and 2Bds (we knew that) - but there will be both standard 2 Bd and 2Bd lofts like WSJ-BV (with the price running higher for the lofts of course)

all float... but not limited to week (Fri-Fri, Sat-Sat, Sun-Sun) usage

wk7 (Prez Day), and wk51-52 (Xmas, NYE) sold as event weeks (~10% higher) - fixed

Prices and associated HOs:
Studio:
wk1-6, wk8-18 -- $33.5K (81K HO)
wk19-23, wk31-33 -- $20.6K (67.1K HO)
wk24-30 -- $22.4K (67.1K HO)
wk34-50 -- N/A (44K HO)

2Bd Loft:
wk1-6, wk8-18 -- $79.3K (176.7K HO)
wk19-23, wk31-33 -- $49.5K (148.1K HO)
wk24-30 -- $53.3K (148.1K HO)
wk34-50 -- $32-34.4K (95.7K HO) [Note: I may have heard this incorrectly]

2Bd Std layout will be from $6K to $2K cheaper (depending on season)

I was told by Direct Sales - that WSJ-CV is only being sold at WSJ (and they handle all other resorts including WSJ-VG and WSJ-BV)

Please correct - where wrong.


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## czar (Dec 2, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> OK - some data (and less speculation) - and some repeat...
> 
> 2Bd Std layout will be from $6K to $2K cheaper (depending on season)
> 
> ...



David,

This is more info than they have me when I called. But they told me same thing that it could only be purchased on site, which was why I was surprised about Maui. 

I don't understand how they'll differentiate between 2br and 2nr loft if they require se number of options?


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## czar (Dec 2, 2013)

A little different pricing, but here's the info I got from direct sales (they sent this in an email) and had previously posted in the other thread about SVN moving to a points system:

For Coral Vista, the building ownership is held in a trust and the points for Coral Vista represent interests in the trust, instead of deeded villas as in the other sections of Westin St. John. Instead of selling deeded weeks we are selling points, which can be used in the following seasons: Diamond Season 1 thru 6, and Resort Season 1 thru 8.

2BR and Studio are the villa sizes offered (no 1BR or 3BR villas) in Coral Vista. The top 2 demand seasons for 2BR villas are:

Diamond 1: 176,000 Star Options per week of 2BR use: $61,000
Diamond 2: 148,100 Star Options per week of 2BR use: $51,100

For summer season 2BR usage the seasons are:

Resort 1 (weeks 19-23, 31-33): 148,100 Star Options per week of 2BR use: $45,700
Resort 1 (weeks 24-30): 148,100 Star Options per week of 2BR use: $49,500

From David's info and this, it seems like the home booking windows are pretty specific?  Perhaps that's how they'll try to ensure availability?


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## YYJMSP (Dec 2, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Which ones are these: The VOIs that were (or are) sold for WKORVN (IV) and WPORV (at 148.1K SOs) were ~$50K and ~$56K, respectively - with very high MFs.  I assume cheaper for 148.1K SOs at resorts like WLR and WDW and VV-Amelia (etc) - but WSJ is high-end resort (w/ high MFs) and more in line with WKORV/N and HRA (etc).



We paid just a bit more than $40K annual/$20K EOY for WKORV, WKORVN and WLR.  We paid pretty much right on the $40K/$20K for WDW.  All are 148.1K SO's.

The rest of our units (all at SVR) are resales, and none of them were 148.1K SO's


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 3, 2013)

YYJMSP said:


> We paid just a bit more than $40K annual/$20K EOY for WKORV, WKORVN and WLR.  We paid pretty much right on the $40K/$20K for WDW.  All are 148.1K SO's.
> 
> The rest of our units (all at SVR) are resales, and none of them were 148.1K SO's



You missed my point re: SO cost at CV  - I am not sure about your specific purchases (what a 'deal' those must be...) - but plenty of 148.1K SOs VOIs (from SVO) have been sold well north of $40K.  WKORV-IV sold for $48K back in 2006 (I know 2 people who paid this) - this is 20% higher - and the OV and OF WKORVN sold for much more (I rescinded a OF WKORVN at $74K).  

WPORV sells for $56K, etc... WKORV IV did sell for ~$40K (way back when), but OV and OF sold for more (WKORV OF Dlx sold for $65K and now sells for ~$120K).

My point was that at a high-end resort like WSJ - especially compared to the SOs that originaly came with WSJ-BV had a higher $/SO cost - of course, they have now adjusted those SOs upward.  So.. I was merely stating that it seemed (on the surface) that CV had a good SO cost (I wasn't trying to start a who got a better deal argument)


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## okwiater (Dec 5, 2013)

I just did an owners update at WKV and they were selling WSJ-CV. We were told that there are two seasons, "Diamond" (mid December through April) and "Resort" (May through mid December). Weeks are held in the trust and you are purchasing options. Was also told that no other resort holdings could be placed in the same trust, i.e. it is just for WSJ-CV. So this does not sound like the Marriott points system.

 Also, pricing seemed pretty favorable all things considered. Here is what we were offered:

 148,100 options in resort season - $38,100
 95,700 options in resort season - $24,600

 Was also told that a $20k purchase was sufficient to retro. (different from the prior $40k WSJ minimum spend)

 Diamond season was significantly more expensive, by >$20k, and only bumped to 176k options from 148k. So the advantage to buying that season is if you want priority booking for the holidays or for spring break. If you want to travel in the summer, resort season will give you much more flexibility.

 Thoughts?


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## czar (Dec 5, 2013)

*Price sheet*

Here's some more info and a price sheet:

Due to limited on site inventory, Maui and Kierland (Scottsdale AZ) are authorized to sell St. John inventory.  Only those 2 sites plus the St. John resort, nobody else.

Today’s prices appear below.  What I can’t tell you (because I don’t know) is how these points spend within the Coral Vista section when not trading for Star Options.  I do know that they do daily stays but I don’t have the chart for how the points spend.

Westin St. John - Coral Vista (PP)




screenshot_60 by czar44, on Flickr


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 5, 2013)

Funny that the Direct Sales person told me that CV was only being sold at WSJ.  I was going to tell him BS, but not worth it (besides he was chaulked full of 'info' - of course could be misinfo)

You may get a bunch of SOs for the higher season - but personally I would not want to be on StJ at that time (no need to escape cold - and way too crowded - plus following winter the water is calmer).

As I mentioned - for WSJ-CV - the SOs seem reasonable (for a SVO purchase). Overall - no matter how they structure CV, and their reasoning to have different than BV - you can be assured it is for their benefit (profit) and not because they are being generous.

Still - no mention of MFs?  This is what I want to hear about.

Added - thanks czar - interesting - pieces are starting to come together.
Still... No info on MFs?


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## okwiater (Dec 5, 2013)

Resort season 148,100 options was $2518 MFs.
 Resort season 95,700 options was $1915 MFs.


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## czar (Dec 5, 2013)

okwiater said:


> Resort season 148,100 options was $2518 MFs.
> Resort season 95,700 options was $1915 MFs.



So looks like they're charging MF based on options.  That's interesting. So higher buy-in and higher fees for better season. Wonder what diamond season fees will look like - closer to $3k? Still wondering how they'll handle the 2br loft. 

$2500 seems high for a 2br. Our 3br BV is $200 less and will have more SO. I think the 2br BV is around $1900 or so.


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## LisaRex (Dec 5, 2013)

Using points instead of deeded weeks is a clever way of spreading the pain of MFs among owners.  Many states will not allow timeshare companies to assess lower MFs to low-season owners (and higher MFs to high season owners) because it shouldn't matter what season you own.  A summer week owner is still sleeping on the bed, using the appliances, and swimming in the pool.  So it makes sense that all owners should pay the same rate. 

Of course, developer-run management firms don't just charge what it takes to maintain the place.   Unless, of course, you believe that it costs $10,000 per month to "maintain" a 2 bdrm villa in Hawaii or St. John.  And they don't like the rule because it won't allow them to raise MFs above the current lowest season rental rates.  Think about it, if a winter SBP or summer WKV owner can rent a 2 bdrm unit for $900 from Starwood directly, why would they agree to pay $1500 a week in MFs?  Doesn't make sense.  And Starwood knows that if they exceed low season rental rates, low season owners will quickly jump ship.  So they know that they can't charge much more than $900/week, even though high season rental rates are double that. 

It used to be that they made up for the disparity by charging high season owners a premium to buy their unit.  But now that they're really curtailing new development, MFs is where their money is. 

So what's a management firm to do if they want to squeeze more juice out of the orange? They create a points system that isn't connected to MFs!   And then they charge folks who want to travel in high season a bunch more points!  That way, they get more money out of high season owners while still complying with the law that says they can't charge high season owners a higher MF. 

So clever!


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## czar (Dec 6, 2013)

Looks like the MF is about 2¢/SO. If that holds true for the Diamond season, it looks like that MF would be close to $3300.


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## czar (Dec 9, 2013)

From direct sales re MF:

A 148,100 Star Option Plat Plus ownership in CV will have a MF about $1K higher (annually) compared to Bay Vista.


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## tomandrobin (Dec 9, 2013)

czar said:


> From direct sales re MF:
> 
> A 148,100 Star Option Plat Plus ownership in CV will have a MF about $1K higher (annually) compared to Bay Vista.



* Ouch * 

Makes me happy I am in Bay Vista.


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## OKPACIFIC (Dec 9, 2013)

*Maint fee*

From owners update presentation yesterday

For 176700 options the maint fee is $2882.00


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## czar (Dec 9, 2013)

Interestingly, the buy in at BV for 2br is now $73,995. So $13k more for $1k less in yearly MF (but also get a larger unit). 3br is now just shy of $90k!


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## LisaH (Dec 9, 2013)

I probably have missed it - is CV set up as voluntary or mandatory?


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## czar (Dec 13, 2013)

LisaH said:


> I probably have missed it - is CV set up as voluntary or mandatory?



Coral Vista is Voluntary according to direct sales. He also said that all new developments will be Voluntary as well.


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## SMHarman (Dec 13, 2013)

czar said:


> Coral Vista is Voluntary according to direct sales. He also said that all new developments will be Voluntary as well.



So does that mean the on resale your Coral Vista Options (sorry cant remember the SVO name) can only be used for booking Coral Vista?  That is a pretty small pool of units to be aligned with!

My understanding may be off on how you use these but I think that means you could, at 12 months out be fighting with a Hurricaine Week guy who banked last years CV Options for the same week in February.  That could get into a really nasty mess of have points but can't use them...


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## czar (Dec 13, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> So does that mean the on resale your Coral Vista Options (sorry cant remember the SVO name) can only be used for booking Coral Vista?  That is a pretty small pool of units to be aligned with!
> 
> My understanding may be off on how you use these but I think that means you could, at 12 months out be fighting with a Hurricaine Week guy who banked last years CV Options for the same week in February.  That could get into a really nasty mess of have points but can't use them...



I think you'd be restricted to your usage period. I'm making that assumption based on the fact that certain periods requiring the same number of home options have different sales prices. So if you could use those home options when're you wanted to, why would you pay more for the same number of options?


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## SMHarman (Dec 13, 2013)

But still competing with developer purchases that are not restricted to their usage period.
And if your usage period is one of the small, premium usage periods (I recall this is being sold with about 6 different usage groups) then you are under even more pressure.
You have a VOI that almost has to be used like a fixed week but you still have to compete and book at the 12m period or you are SOL.


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## czar (Dec 14, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> But still competing with developer purchases that are not restricted to their usage period.
> And if your usage period is one of the small, premium usage periods (I recall this is being sold with about 6 different usage groups) then you are under even more pressure.
> You have a VOI that almost has to be used like a fixed week but you still have to compete and book at the 12m period or you are SOL.



Yeah it sounds like it would be tough for plat plus and plat owners. On the flip side, bc of the lower MF, more appealing for Gold season. Less comp for those weeks, too.


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## darius (Dec 22, 2013)

*Requal / Incentive questions*

Hello everyone,

If I wanted to requal two Starwood weeks,  would it make sense to break up two purchases of 74,050 SO's (total of 148,100) to requal both weeks?   My weeks are 148,100 SO's, and this would give me 4*Elite.    

What were the purchase incentives offered?

When a resort is in pre-construction, do they usually keep the prices the same until opening?  Just curious because we will be at the Maui property in summer and was curious if there is any advantage of moving quicker to secure a better 'deal' if we decide to do this.

Thanks!


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## czar (Dec 22, 2013)

darius said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> If I wanted to requal two Starwood weeks,  would it make sense to break up two purchases of 74,050 SO's (total of 148,100) to requal both weeks?   My weeks are 148,100 SO's, and this would give me 4*Elite.
> 
> ...



I'd be curious to know if you could do that - I'm guessing that point allocation is equivalent to an every other year?  But perhaps you get the allocation of points bc you're paying the MF yearly?  Should be interesting to see, but it seems like it would be like purchasing two every other year units and re qualifying.  It would make sense that you could probably buy two smaller points packages to requal both units assuming they follow what they've done at other resorts by allowing requals that are larger than the new purchases.


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## okwiater (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't see why you couldn't do that.

The downside is that you'd be paying a slightly higher MF to do that. My SVO sales rep explained to me that each ownership comes with a base MF plus a per-StarOption MF. So the same number of options purchased as 2 ownerships would incur 2 base MFs (but the same per-option MFs).


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## darius (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replies!     Curious how much the monthly premium is for two VOI's.  But for 19k each -- not a bad deal to requalify in my opinion.


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## czar (Dec 23, 2013)

I would assume the two smaller contracts should be similar to buying them together.  Buy in is cheaper but the MF seem high to me as compared to BV (and the units are smaller). I guess the upswing is more flexibility in booking unit sizes. 



> Resort season 148,100 options was $2518 MFs.
> Resort season 95,700 options was $1915 MFs.



That's about $600 more than 2br summer BV.


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## okwiater (Dec 24, 2013)

AFAIK there is still a $20k minimum to requalify. That's what we were told at WKV when they tried to sell us Coral Vista.


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## czar (Dec 24, 2013)

okwiater said:


> AFAIK there is still a $20k minimum to requalify. That's what we were told at WKV when they tried to sell us Coral Vista.



They told me same thing but then let me do it for a contract at just over $19k. I had 2 weeks I used to trade in, too. I think it was like $19,300 or something.

Edit: We also bought and used an explorer package. Just be careful, you can't use any more than 10% if the expert package value of the net cost of the unit. For us, we were only able to get a credit of about $1930 bc that's what the unit cost was after the trade in of two SVV weeks. Brought us down to about $17k plus closing costs.


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## czar (Dec 26, 2013)

okwiater said:


> I don't see why you couldn't do that.
> 
> The downside is that you'd be paying a slightly higher MF to do that. My SVO sales rep explained to me that each ownership comes with a base MF plus a per-StarOption MF. So the same number of options purchased as 2 ownerships would incur 2 base MFs (but the same per-option MFs).




Missed this post. That's interesting. Wonder what the base is.


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## SMHarman (Dec 26, 2013)

Is that the slightly higher $30 EOY fee?

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## darius (Dec 29, 2013)

To anyone who purchased here,  may I ask, what were the incentives offered?   Is the difference in purchasing 2 VO's for with 74,050 SO (to requal two units) only $30.00/ea in additional maint. fees?

Thanks in advance..


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## okwiater (Dec 29, 2013)

darius said:


> To anyone who purchased here, may I ask, what were the incentives offered? Is the difference in purchasing 2 VO's for with 74,050 SO (to requal two units) only $30.00/ea in additional maint. fees?
> 
> Thanks in advance..


 
It seems like the additional maintenance per unit has to be much more than $30.

A 148,100 HO "Resort" season ownership has MFs of $2518.
A 95,700 HO "Resort" season ownership has MFs of $1915.

Based on those two samples, the per-HO cost is about 1.15 cents plus a base MF of $814.45.

However, we were also quoted $4053 in MFs for 148,100 plus 67,100 (two ownerships). The per-HO assumptions aren't quite consistent with the third sample; however, it still implies per-HO cost of 1-1.2 cents and base MFs in the many hundreds of dollars.


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## Conan (Mar 16, 2014)

*Bay Vista/Coral Vista Developer Prices and Explorer Package Deal*

We're at Westin St. John, renting a hillside 1-BR unit from an owner. We took the tour and we bought an Explorer package.

They're rebuilding the Bay Vista/Coral Vista units, formerly part of the hotel, into timeshare units, a mix of Studios, 2-BR and 2-BR loft units. It's a point system, and apparently the loft units are the same price and maintenance as the regular 2-BR and will be assigned on a request basis.

We paid $4,994 for the Explorer Package - - it provides a 2-BR week in the new units between May 2015 and June 2016 after the construction is done (we requested and got an extension to use it through October 2016), and airport/ferry transfers. Included in the price was two years' SPG Gold status and 85,000 SPG Starpoints. We figure the points will give us about a week in a pretty good European hotel, so we paid about $350/night across the board (or you could say that's $400/night for the WSJ and $300/night of hotel use).

FYI, here are the figures from my Explorer Pricing Addendum.

Resort Season
148,100 Points/Star Options $38,100 w/80,000 Star Points and 20,000 SPG gift

95,700 Points/Star Options $24,600 w/51,600 Star Points 65,000 SPG gift

74,050 Points/Star Options $19,000 w/39,950 Star Points 50,000 SPG gift

67,100 Points/Star Options n.a.

47,850 Points/Star Options $12,300 w/25,800 Star Points 30,000 SPG gift

44,000 Points/Star Options $11,300 w/23,750 Star Points 30,000 SPG gift

33,550 Points/Star Options $8,600 w/18,100 Star Points 20,000 SPG gift

22,000 Points/Star Options $5,700 w/11,850 Star Points 20,000 SPG gift


Diamond Season
176,700 Points/Star Options $61,000 w/95,400 Star Points and 160,000 SPG gift

148,100 Points/Star Options $51,100 w/80,000 Star Points and 140,000 SPG gift

88,350 Points/Star Options $30,500 w/47,700 Star Points 80,000 SPG gift

81,000 Points/Star Options $27,900 w/43,700 Star Points 70,000 SPG gift

74,050 Points/Star Options $25,500 w/39,950 Star Points 60,000 SPG gift

40,500 Points/Star Options $14,000 w/21,850 Star Points 35,000 SPG gift


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks for the info - there is already a thread for the WSJ CV phase.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199853*[MERGED]
*
It is the CV phase that is being re-configured/re-modeled from the hotel to TS villas.  This was done for the the BV phase that already exists. BV and CV phases will operate different HOAs (as well as the VGV phase of course).

IMO - I would rescind the ExPkg (if you can) until you have done adequate research (on-line).  I know that it seems to be a great deal - and can justify using creative math (aka fuzzy math).  I am not saying that you cannot make it work to maximize value - especially if you compare to retail cost.

Make sure you are aware of what resale VGV and BV is going for (RedWeek and Holiday Homes of StJ) - and the rental prices at WSJ (I assume you know this as you rented from an Owner), and for villas on StJ.

Importantly, you list the purchase price and incentives (thanks), but not the MFs - it is the MFs that are going to always continue (flat or upwards) and can become a challenge to deal with for some (as life changes).

Also, BV resale prices are really dropping (as often seen with Voluntary resorts because SOs do not transfer with ownership) now that they have been in sales for a few years and (assume) at the end of their sales period since they are opening up the CV phase next year.  I think the VGV resale prices have bottomed (IMO) - especially with the increase of the associated SOs.

Good luck.

You didn't mention how you liked the resort or St John - always interested in others vacations on StJ.


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## Conan (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks David.

There's no chance we would buy from the developer, but I'm OK with the explorer package. We know what we're getting, we do want to come back in 2016, and I'm looking forward to the 2-BR unit for that week. 

We paid $375/night for the hillside 1-BR private rental, two consecutive March Spring Break weeks $5,300 total which were the exact weeks we needed.  

We're very happy with the Island - - it's a legitimate Hawaii alternative for East Coasters. Our friendly timeshare salesman recommended P&P food shack (past Gallows Point) which was a great find for the food, the prices, the view, and the company.  We've driven our jeep all over the Island, snorkeling in new places every day.  We've had a few expensive dinners out, the usual suspects in town and our favorite out of town, Shipwreck down Rte 107 from Coral Bay.

The hillside unit is a bit smaller than we're used to (our adult daughter is with us, sleeping on the living room convertible).  We haven't made much use of the Westin property, 'though it's nice to have a pool right next door (we're in Building 33).  The kitchen is adequate and we very much like the balcony view. The big disappointment here is that the hot-tub is out of service.

Cheers!
Conan


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 17, 2014)

Hot tub?  You mean down at the resort?
We rarely get down to the resort.  Parking next to the villa is a huge benefit.
We own 3410 (2Bd TH) - I love the 25 steps to the pool.

A lot of weeks rent for the MFs, but I guess not during SpringBreak.  Not sure if the ExpPkg will get you a high-season week reservation.

Shipwreck is one of our favs as well.


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## OKPACIFIC (Apr 29, 2014)

*availability*

Duplicate post


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## OKPACIFIC (Apr 29, 2014)

*availability*

FYI went to sales presentation yesterday. The offering of 176700 diamond options for $61,000 is gone and the  148100 diamond  for 51100 will be gone May 1st. By gone they explained it means the sales reps can't offer it any more. To me this means maybe a price increase coming?


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## SMHarman (Apr 29, 2014)

^ seems a salesperson got to him while typing the message.

Forget it - managed to send the full text.


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