# [2011] Question about HGVC Resale



## Corsy (Dec 25, 2011)

I am interested in buying our first resale timeshare and this forum has been extremely helpful.  We want something that won't require us to use full week stays and will also convert to hotel points as we both travel for business.  From the research I'm doing it appears that HGVC is our best option, no?  We want our home resort to be Orlando and I think Seaworld fits our family the most.  I just am confused because originally we looked at Starwood and people were giving them away for FREE but the HGVC ones seem to go for thousands?  There is one on eBay with a $50 bid right now but only has 3500 points in Silver Season.  Since we never travel for a week at a time and we usually take our 4-5 day vacations in November or December (not Christmas) would this be good for us?  Is 3500 points enough?  Does it matter where the unit is because that didn't seem to be listed?  Is there a good place for me to go to get them for free like the Starwood ones?  Your guidance is appreciated!


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## Talent312 (Dec 25, 2011)

With respect to the HGVC system, you should keep these things in mind:

-- HGVC has a ROFR (right of first refusal) in all its resorts, 'cept Flamingo,
and hotel-based tend have higher prices. Thus HGVC tends to hold its value.

-- Maintenance Fees are based on unit size, not season or  points,
so you'll get more points per MF$ with platinum or gold season TS's.

-- Points are points. It matters not where you buy, as you can use them
anywhere, in any season, as long as you have enuff in your account.

-- Where you buy will get you an early booking window (12-9 mos) and
will affect the MF rates (Orlando & Vegas have the lowest).

-- Converting points to HHonors can be done with "next" year's points,
but it's not an efficient use -- a 1:25 ratio gets you fewer hotel nights.
A better practice is to enhance your hotel-points with a Hilton credit card.


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## Corsy (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks talent!  So that being said do you think that Seaworld is a good option for us but we should buy platinum or gold and expect to pay thousands for it?  How many points in this system is adequate?


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## sjuhawk_jd (Dec 25, 2011)

Minimum should be 4800, 7K are the best bang for your maintenance fees.


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## fillde (Dec 25, 2011)

*affiliates*

Another option is to buy an affiliate. They are usually less expensive, then you pay a fee to convert to Hilton.    

I personally would look to get a 7000 platinum at Flamingo. Maintenance under 1000, no Rofr, points are points.

Here  is an example of an affiliate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-HILTON...40667066750?pt=Timeshares&hash=item20c069197e


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## gnorth16 (Dec 25, 2011)

I love how the seller puts in that there is ROFR.
Not true...

This is tempting...


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## Talent312 (Dec 25, 2011)

More points are better than less, for sure; however, a Seaworld package of 3,500 points is minimally adequate. It will give you a basic week's vacation once a year, with the option to book a smaller unit to stretch it out for two weeks. Also, by using less than a week (3-days minumum), you can break it up into multiple trips.


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## Corsy (Dec 25, 2011)

So even if we plan to go to Orlando many times it's still fine to buy at Flamingo?  For our needs do you think that HGVC is the best option?


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## fillde (Dec 25, 2011)

*points are points*

No threat of hurricanes in Las Vegas. Hurricane damage may equal special assessment. Just something to think about.


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## Corsy (Dec 25, 2011)

Good point.  Will we have any trouble booking in Orlando?  What is the difference if we buy at the Marco Island affiliate?


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## Talent312 (Dec 25, 2011)

Corsy said:


> Will we have any trouble booking in Orlando?  What is the difference if we buy at the Marco Island affiliate?



No trouble booking Orlando at all. There are three HGVC resorts and they all have plenty of availability for both club-reservations (starting 9 months out) and open season (at 30 days out).

Hurricane alarmists need to get over themselves. I own at Seaworld. It's 60 miles inland from the Atlantic and 80 miles from the Gulf. The chances of any serious damage is remote. Direct hits are very rare and, even with a direct hit, a friend there lost the screen enclosure over his pool. Disney and Universal closed for one day. "The horror!"

SW Florida can be difficult for non-owners to book club reservations 'cuz many owners at these affiliated resorts choose not to participate in Hilton at all, or choose each year to use their week instead of club-points (wouldn't you). Also, affiliates are not bookable thru HGVC's website, so you'd have to call the C/S center to attempt a booking. This limits booking by "outsiders." 

No worries, mate. Simply choose the package that makes the most sense for you.


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## Corsy (Dec 25, 2011)

Wait, I'm confused, what is the difference between buying at Seaworld and an affiliate?  Also, if HGVC are selling for thousands and have ROFR, is Marriott a better choice for me?  Where is the best/least expensive place to buy a points based system (remember we never travel for a full week but travel. 3-4 times a year ).  Thanks!


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## Talent312 (Dec 25, 2011)

Corsy said:


> Wait, I'm confused, what is the difference between buying at Seaworld and an affiliate?  Also, if HGVC are selling for thousands and have ROFR, is Marriott a better choice for me?  Where is the best/least expensive place to buy a points based system (remember we never travel for a full week but travel. 3-4 times a year ).[



I cannot answer for Marriott. By report, they are not as friendly to resale buyers as Hilton.
Frankly, Wyndham has the most resorts and is the least expensive of all the hotel-systems,
but it lacks the uniformly high quality and cachet of Hilton or Marriott.

Within the HGVC system, there are (1) resorts built+owned+managed by HGVC (true HGVC resorts), (2) some that HGVC bought into, and (3) more commonly, resorts that were built independently that choose to be managed by or contractually affiliated with HGVC as a benefit to its owners.

Its the third sort that we call "affiliates." At affiliates, membership in HGVC is optional, annual participation in HGVC is optional, and they tend to be cheaper than true HGVC resorts.  There's also a significant activation fee, if you choose to join HGVC.


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## janckenn (Dec 25, 2011)

I own HGVC Grand Waikikian and West 57th because of location, location, location.

I bought HGVC Flamingo resale because of points, points, points.  There is absolutely no right of first refusal at that location.  Maintenance fee is low, making it even more attractive.  With its location in the middle of the Strip, it is becoming a great location, location, location.  7,000 points are hard to come by on e-bay, but I was able to pick up a couple in early 2011 for $10K each.  Also picked up a couple 4,800 points in 2010 for about $3K each, also on e-bay.  My e-bay transactions were all very smooth, no problems whatsoever.

Good luck!


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## SmithOp (Dec 25, 2011)

I agree with the 4800 point minimum, just get a good foothold in the door to cover 1 week in 1 br in Hawaii. For your needs of short vacations, the cash based 30 day open season would get you 2 night minimums without using points at all ($80-$140 / night based on size / dow).


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## miketv (Dec 26, 2011)

Check the marketplace - someones selling 7000 points at I-Drive for $7500 but I doubt it pass ROFR.  

It's a steal if it passes.


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## Corsy (Dec 26, 2011)

So I'm thinking about a 5000 point at Flamingo but also am considering a 5000 at Marco Island...I'm still not grasping whether an affiliate will be better or Flamingo better...there isn't ROFR at affiliates, correct?


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## Corsy (Dec 26, 2011)

Also, does anyone know about timesharepro or redweekforless sellers on eBay?  I thought I had read somewhere on this forum that the second one was problematic but both have 99% positive feedback?


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## Talent312 (Dec 26, 2011)

I dunno those two, but I wouldn't rely on e-bay feedback for R/E listings.
If the deal goes South, its usually long after the time for that has expired.
You could ask in the "Selling, Buying..." forum and use the search feature.

If I were buying today, I'd use one of these brokers who specialize in HGVC.
They have stellar reps among the Hilton posters here:
Judy Koz... --  http://judikoz.com/
Seth Nock --- http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/

There are folks here who have joined HGVC thru affiliates and enjoy the flexibility of choosing each year whether to use their week or take the points. If I wanted to visit Marco frequently, I'd buy there to have a guaranteed week. OTOH, many HGVC members never darken the door of their home resort. For those, buying a true HGVC resort makes participation simpler.

To make a true cost-per-point comparison between different TS's, add the cost to buy (include the $399 transfer/activation fee) and MF's for how many years you might own (10 to 20 years?), then divide that amount by the total number of points you'd get.


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## Corsy (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks talent you've been very helpful.  Not sure I understood the last paragraph though.  I know those 2 brokers are well respected but aren't I going to pay more for going through a broker than buying direct?  I think we should do 5000 points at Flamingo but didn't want to spend more than $3000...is that realistic?


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## icul8rg8r (Dec 26, 2011)

Corsy said:


> .... I think we should do 5000 points at Flamingo but didn't want to spend more than $3000...is that realistic?



I've been researching for a few weeks now, and have found that the average resale price for Flamingo is about $1 per point for annual (more for 4800 and 7000 PLATINUM points because of demand and due to Hilton actually purchasing platinum points, even at the Flamingo and other non-ROFR properties).

For $3000 you may be able to get an every-other-year plan at the Flamingo, or 3500 annual points.  Again, from what I've come across the last few weeks, is that private sellers gauge what resalers are selling HGVC points for, and will try to sell for the same $$'s, or beat it by a little bit.


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## dja1980 (Dec 28, 2011)

Corsy said:


> I know those 2 brokers are well respected but aren't I going to pay more for going through a broker than buying direct?



Commission is paid by the seller, not the buyer.  We bought at Tuscany through Judi based on the recommendations here.  If you are looking at purchasing a property with ROFR, you will most likely get the best deal by using a broker because they watch “the line” on a daily basis.  Here’s a post from Judi on my thread…



Judi Kozlowski said:


> As a Broker we get paid if Hilton exercises their FROR.  I try to stay above the FROR  price as often as possible.  Even though I get paid the Seller is upset because he feels I priced his unit lower than I should have.  The Buyer loses the inventory.  At this point we can not afford to lose the inventory.
> Although I do have LOTS of inventory because I list a lot of Hilton properties for Sellers.
> I do not buy and resell.


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## Remy (Dec 28, 2011)

Corsy said:


> Thanks talent you've been very helpful.  Not sure I understood the last paragraph though.  I know those 2 brokers are well respected but aren't I going to pay more for going through a broker than buying direct?  I think we should do 5000 points at Flamingo but didn't want to spend more than $3000...is that realistic?



I've purchased both using a broker direct and using eBay.

I've seen two 4,800 point platinum weeks at the Flamingo go for $2,900 and $3,050 on eBay in the past year. Pricing is generally higher in an advertised listing with a broker. Be patient on eBay and you might walk away with a better deal.


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## TheWizz (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd consider buying resale from Grand Pacific Resorts - they help distressed sellers unload units they don't want or can't afford and you get a good deal and can convert to HGVC as well.  I did that with two units and have been very pleased.  Maintenance fees for Grand Pacific are reasonable and they hold their value better than affiliates in FL from what I have seen.  Good luck.


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## MikeinSoCal (Jan 3, 2013)

Corsy said:


> Also, does anyone know about timesharepro or redweekforless sellers on eBay?  I thought I had read somewhere on this forum that the second one was problematic but both have 99% positive feedback?


I believe redweek4less feedback on ebay is a fraud.  They keep all of their auctions private, so you can't see the auction details.  They could be selling anything and you wouldn't know what it is.  A lot of their feedback says, "fast shipping".  You only have 60 days to leave feedback.  How many timeshares close in 60 days?  They took 8 months to close mine and horrible communication!  You can't talk to anyone via phone.


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## piyooshj (Jan 3, 2013)

MikeinSoCal said:


> I believe redweek4less feedback on ebay is a fraud.  They keep all of their auctions private, so you can't see the auction details.  They could be selling anything and you wouldn't know what it is.  A lot of their feedback says, "fast shipping".  You only have 60 days to leave feedback.  How many timeshares close in 60 days?  They took 8 months to close mine and horrible communication!  You can't talk to anyone via phone.



I concur. I just closed mine. It took about 3-4 months with lots of ups and downs. They dont have any online tracking on the closing process and you need to keep on top of things and keep pinging. Thank god it did finally close. After one month they said they were having hard tome reaching the owner may be either refunding me or offering me a replacement and one week later came back with we were able to contact the owner....


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## Talent312 (Jan 3, 2013)

MikeinSoCal said:


> I believe redweek4less feedback on ebay is a fraud...



Thanks for participating, guys.
But you're responding to a post that's more than a year old.
You may want to post reviews under the Buying, Selling... forum.
.


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## Habeasrob (Jan 6, 2013)

*One big one or lots of little one*

Okay, having reviewed everything, I believe I would like about 8,000 points at Orlando, international drive, so we can take 3, 4 to 5 night vacations.  

It seems cheaper to buy several 3,000 pt packages instead of one 8,000 pt package.  At downside to this that I cannot see?


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## RX8 (Jan 6, 2013)

Habeasrob said:


> Okay, having reviewed everything, I believe I would like about 8,000 points at Orlando, international drive, so we can take 3, 4 to 5 night vacations.
> 
> It seems cheaper to buy several 3,000 pt packages instead of one 8,000 pt package.  At downside to this that I cannot see?



There are no 8000 packages.  You could find an 8400 which would be a two bdm premium in platinum season or a 3 bdm premium gold season. While you could buy three separate packages that add up to 8400 or thereabouts you would be paying THREE maintenance fees (not to mention three closing costs).  While buying three smaller points packages would be cheaper upfront than one large point package, the larger point package would be cheaper over time since you would be paying approximately $1000 in MF instead of $3000.


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