# Purchased from wyndham and thinking of canceling



## Michael Griffiths (Mar 31, 2017)

Owner week 9 even year, and float for odd year at Smugglers Notch resort for last 15 years. They sold me 23k timeshare where they valued my fixed at 224 and float 182, plus gave me 128k. I beginning to think about canceling due to some issue and concerns. First, I was told by salesman I could book a week at a high end property, then have wyndham sell it and cut me a cash check for 60% of the fee. Is that true, and a realistic expectation. This way I could offset maintenance costs with making some cash on unused weeks. 

Second, can I realistically expect to get a upgrade from a 2, to a 3br upgrade during prime weeks in winter skiing season, like Jan-feb-march?

I'm thinking the value may not be there as originally perceived.

Please feel free to add any comments to assist me in making a decision in the next 24 hours before I leave the resort.


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## BellaWyn (Mar 31, 2017)

Rescind first, get your questions answered later.  Your gut is telling you to rescind and your window is limited.  If your answers come back that a developer sale is best, there is another one available around the corner.

Also, they didn't "give you" 128K points.  You paid $23K for those.  Other Tuggers will jump in and explain why.  Focus energy on the rescision first.

Welcome to TUG BTW!!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 31, 2017)

Michael ... RESCIND NOW.

As many of us here own vast numbers of Wyndham points and have had dealings with Wyndham for YEARS .. our favorite line is, "if their LIPS are moving, they are perhaps NOT telling the full truth or anything even close to the truth."

You truly need to learn what is possible or what is most likely NOT possible. We have members HERE who have owned PRIME SMUGGs weeks for years and are also Wyndham owners. 

But your VERY LIMITED window to rescind does not permit you to wait for them to check in ... RESCIND NOW. Do way more research and explore ALL your options ... for this resort, for Club Wyndham Access, or even other timeshare systems. ... OR even if just renting might be YOUR best option.


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## TUGBrian (Mar 31, 2017)

grats on finding us in time to save yourself 23 thousand bucks!


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## Michael Griffiths (Mar 31, 2017)

Been here for 15 years and never switched over to points from weeks when they first offered. The last few years sitting with the salespeople, things didn't make sense. this time they seemed little bit more appealing. Since they valued my fixed week at 224 and the float at 182, the salesman said we could come up for 94,000 for the same week 9 in a 2 bedroom sycamore, and get a free upgrade to a 3 br. seemed if they are valuing our unit at 224 and its only going to cost 94 for the same week, week could come up around 3 times a year. I have till Monday night at midnight to cancel, but I want to decide by tomorrow before we leave.


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## Michael Griffiths (Mar 31, 2017)

here is my copied email I sent the guy today, as well as the main guy who ran their floor. Tell me if I'm on base with my concerns.

I wanted to get in touch with you both to express our thoughts.

We've been doing some thinking on what we purchased from you both the other day, and were having second thoughts. I've read thru a fair amount of the material that we were provided. I've also had a few conversation with friends who have also made purchases here at Smuggs, and other Wyndam properties to gauge their experiences going thru the process of purchasing, and then the management of their purchase. 

Being in sales and being self-employed my whole life, I understand there are times when you represent certain features and or benefits that help in the closing process. However they may appear, they are not always "realistic expectations" that the client can expect to experience. Case in point. Its been conveyed to me that that availability in Wyndam units at Smuggs and other properties are not always available. For instance, I was told by numerous friends that are Wyndam, and Smuggs owners, to not expect a free upgrade to a 3 bedroom from our 2, because most likely the 3 bedrooms are not available because they already been booked by owners with more points to burn so to speak. 

We were also made aware that many owners are also trying to book units for resale, and that the expectations presented to us both, like booking a presidents week at Smuggs, and booking a week in Avon Colorado, and selling them for a 60% profit to offset maintenance fees or other costs, are probably not a realistic expectation. After this was conveyed to us, I go back to our conversation with Corbett, where he was kind of steered us in the way to answer the questions for purchasing, as value, more options, and added benefits, not reselling for profit.  I put allot of weight on the ability to profit from selling a booking, and having flexibility to have a potion of our costs offset. When I expressed this,  Corbett steered me in the way, to not answer those questions with my desire to profit and offset costs by selling a booking. In hindsight now, and with friends opinions, I believe that the expectation that was presented to us, may not be realistic. And for that, I consider this strike 2, and continue to second guess our purchase.

We were also looking forward to new flexibility, with the new purchase in coming up various weekends thru-out the season. However, nobody explained anything to us about housekeeping credits I found on page 338. This seems to be another cost associated with our purchase that was not explained, and this concerns us again. 

We were relatively comfortable with the monthly payment presented to us during the presentation process. However, we were taken aback during our time with the closing woman. The monthly cost of maintenance fees paid in a monthly fashion, was not explained to us in anyway until the end of closing. So a $362 monthly cost was increased by 41% for maintenance fees. In a flick of an eye, were find ourselves at a $450 new monthly payment.  For the last 15 years we pay our maintenance fees in a lump sum when we check in for our week vacations at Smuggs. Paying monthly maintenance fees was not conveyed in anyway and does not fit with how we have managed our ownership. This could be strike 3. 

I emailed Corbett with a request to get into a Owls unit this week before we left, to see if what was conveyed to us, is up to our expectations. Corbett did get back to us and said we can't get into until Saturday. We've been here 15 times and we know what the resort looks like during low, and high occupancy rates. With this being the last week of the season, and seeing the resort scaling back with services, we find it hard to believe that their is not one Wyndam unit that is vacant in Owls for us to look at. We know how empty the resort is. This made me question wether not getting into a unit until Saturday, may be a time where we have already left, was conveyed in that way as for us to not have the opportunity to not see a Wyndam unit in person this week.

In closing, one of our friends who are also recent purchasers here at Smuggs, received 300,000 bonus points per year, not the measly 128,000 we were offered. When I add everything up with what was conveyed by friends, it seems like not much will change other than we have a few more weeks, with a new $450 monthly payment. We'll never get a free upgrade, we won't be able to offset cost by selling a booking, we now have to pay maintenance fees monthly. On top of all that, nobody even asked if we wanted to have our monthly payments deducted from our checking account. You guys just put everything on my Amex card, and assumed this was fine for the next 10 years. As a salesman myself, this seems little more concern for your commissions, than whats best for your client. 

These are the concerns were dealing with at the moment, and why were feeling the way we are about canceling our purchase. We have until Monday night at Midnight.


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## Michael Griffiths (Mar 31, 2017)

Is it true to believe that the more Wyndham takes inventory, my ability in float years to obtain a nice unit, not a old one, is going to be limited. For instance the last 2 float years we've only been able to get late weeks in March as any options.


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## ronparise (Mar 31, 2017)

Regarding extra holidays. You can hire them to do rentals for you even if you bought your points on the secondary market.  

The thing is. Even if you make the best reservations and they get the bet price you won't have enough to cover maintenance fees, much less recover any of the money the $23000 you spend

And upgrades in ski season?  Ain't gonna happen. Those 3 bedroom units will be reserved months in advance


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## Michael Griffiths (Mar 31, 2017)

I also read some posts here on this forum that spoke about megarenters. I was told Wyndham would help me, and tell me where to book a high end desirable week to resell. Once they resell it, they cut me a check for 60% of the value paid. Then I get a cash/check in the mail that I could pay maintenance fees, or just put in in my pocket, or towards my timeshare balance. I've seen nothing about this on the few hours I've been on this forum. With the megarenters, I get the impression I'll never see a dime for selling anything at a desirable time and location. your thoughts please


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## ronparise (Mar 31, 2017)

One salesman to another....
Whatever you sold in your career didn't prepare you for timeshare salesmen. Their ethics, I guarantee you, don't rise to your standards. These guys will say anything to make a sale 

Your email is a mistake they will counter your objections with lies and delay until the rescission period is over

You should be on your way to the post office by now


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## ronparise (Mar 31, 2017)

If you make the right reservations and Wyndham gets them rented, you will dio fine

You will have the same chance of making that prime reservation as I do the difference is I don't pay as much as you will have paid (per point) and I will probably get the platinum discount that you won't get. So I can advertise a price significantly less than you can and still make money

But that isn't the big thing.  The big thing is that I will work harder for me, than Wyndham will work for you


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## ecwinch (Mar 31, 2017)

The reason the 2nd sales person "steered" you away from the "for-profit" rental conversation is that Wyndham sales is not supposed to sell on that basis. Of course it happens, but they aren't supposed to do it.

The reason you do not see mega-renters talk about that here (i.e. renting thru Wyndham @ ExtraHolidays), is the generally ineffectiveness of using that channel - ie. 40% cut, that you will be capped by Wyndham's rental rates, only certain dates might be rented, and Wyndham filling rentals with their inventory.


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## ronparise (Mar 31, 2017)

You are trying to talk yourself into rescinding. Listen to your best instincts and do it

If you change your mind later those salesmen will still be there to take your money


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## Iggyearl (Mar 31, 2017)

Michael, all the stuff they told you sounds great.  But is it in the contract?  Will they guarantee (in writing) that things will work out the way they say?  Your contract strictly states that you did not rely on verbal representations to make you decision to purchase.  That is their proverbial "license to lie."  You need some time to study THIS website and learn the ropes.  They only want you to get past the rescission period.  Who is going to win?  I hope it is you.


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## BellaWyn (Mar 31, 2017)

ronparise said:


> One salesman to another....
> You should be on your way to the post office by now


Exactly, the clock is ticking.  

Whatever irritation and frustration you are experiencing now will be exponentially worse when you realize you spent that much $$ for not a whole lot more than what you had and then lots of "too-late after-the-fact" head banging ensues. . 

Rescind NOW, consider later. Do not try to get them to explain their lies.  It's a wasted effort.  

Post CERTIFIED!  That costs less than $3 which is a much smaller headache and a $23K savings!!


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## cayman01 (Mar 31, 2017)

Michael,
 You obviously have doubts. That alone should be enough to convince you to rescind. As many here have stated rescind NOW , get your questions answered and THEN, and only then, you can go back to the salesman and finish the deal if you still want to do it. My guess is you won't. However, I GUARANTEE IT WILL STILL BE ON THE TABLE.

 However I encourage you to look at all possibilities. You can buy a resale Smuggs contract for much less than what was offered to you. Your offer is to convert two Smuggs weeks to 406,000 points with NO guarantees of availability plus pay $23k for another 128,000 points. A recent look at eBay shows a 654,000 Presidential Reserve  Contract sold for somewhere less than $13K. That would have given you 654k points PLUS your 2 fixed weeks. A much better deal wouldn't you say?

 Just remember that Salesman is making a big fat check off your purchase. He will do/say ANYTHING to get you past the rescission period.  Just send the rescission letter certified and be done with it. Then start READING on TUG and your eyes will be opened up a bit to how timeshare salesmen work.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 31, 2017)

Rescinding is a letter with few words... your posted version is WAY TOO LONG ... a 2 volume novel, a thesis, an epic journal. The timeshare selling agents only want your signature to buy .. then, they get PAID.

You rescind letter should say 

"I am hereby rescinding my purchase of xx/yy/zzzz for 123,456 CWA Points (or CWP deeded points at ABC Resort). Please return all monies paid and restore my account to its original condition prior to this cancelled purchase.
Your SIGNATURE"


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## smmatrix (Apr 1, 2017)

Rescind now through the proper channels, per the EXACT instructions in your paperwork.  No further conversations with the salesperson or sales manager please.  They have one objective in mind... and it isn't watching out for you!  You can always buy on the resale market.


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## Michael Griffiths (Apr 1, 2017)

I am still onsite, and cancelled in the office today, as per my contractual right. I did get more answers to my questions, and things made sense. The price was just too high for now.


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## LannyPC (Apr 1, 2017)

Michael Griffiths said:


> I am still onsite, and cancelled in the office today..



But is that the method stipulated in the contract?  It will probably tell you to send it certified mail.  I would follow the instructions in your packet exactly including the method of delivering your rescission letter.


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## Jan M. (Apr 1, 2017)

Michael Griffiths said:


> I am still onsite, and cancelled in the office today, as per my contractual right. I did get more answers to my questions, and things made sense. The price was just too high for now.



I'm curious; what part or parts made sense?

1. If you are wanting to add points why not just buy a deed from someone selling here on TUG or eBay. Points are points. From what I've seen in the posts on various threads, fixed week owners seem to pay a lot less in maintenance fees and are guaranteed getting the week and unit size they already own. Points offer a lot of flexibility but as Ron pointed out you also face a lot of competition getting the good reservations.
2. Extra Holidays isn't the wonderful thing the sales people paint it to be. First of all they are not allowed to "help" you get reservations. Wyndham sets the price on the reservations and if they only sell part of the stay you booked, you don't get the remaining nights back. Again as Ron pointed out going up against the mega renters and point managers makes for some very stiff competition in renting as their prices are typically much better than Extra Holidays.
3. As OP have pointed out buying developer points any benefits are unlikely to ever offset the higher cost vs buying resale deeds.


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## ecwinch (Apr 2, 2017)

LannyPC said:


> But is that the method stipulated in the contract?  It will probably tell you to send it certified mail.  I would follow the instructions in your packet exactly including the method of delivering your rescission letter.


Absolutely.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 2, 2017)

Michael Griffiths said:


> I am still onsite, and cancelled in the office today, as per my contractual right. I did get more answers to my questions, and things made sense. The price was just too high for now.



Michael, sure they were smiling. They most likely lied to you and you did NOT LEGALLY do what is required to cancel the sale. These are the VERY SAME WEASELS who told you want you brought was the best deal ANYONE got in the last 6 months ... you really got a great deal. 

Legal is legal .. send that cancellation letter to the address in your packet .. certified mail/return receipt with a regular mail copy also. Handwritten is fine, just get a photo copy before mailing it.


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## whitewater (Apr 2, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Michael, sure they were smiling. They most likely lied to you and you did NOT LEGALLY do what is required to cancel the sale. These are the VERY SAME WEASELS who told you want you brought was the best deal ANYONE got in the last 6 months ... you really got a great deal.
> 
> Legal is legal .. send that cancellation letter to the address in your packet .. certified mail/return receipt with a regular mail copy also. Handwritten is fine, just get a photo copy before mailing it.



*rescind exactly via the methods in your contract.  All other methods are a path to you keeping your recently purchased timeshare and having to pay lots of $$,$$$ over the next 20 years plus interest.  *


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## Jan M. (Apr 2, 2017)

When we've cancelled while still on site we dealt with the contract department not sales and never had any problem. The only thing thing sales would possibly be involved in is escorting you to contracts. We were given copies of everything confirming the cancellation. And we've done this at least 3 or 4 times, the most recent being 4 years ago. We never sent a letter but I would recommend following it up with a certified or registered letter. IMHO it is always best to get that cancellation done asap and any charges to your accounts credited right then and there. I would rather give up another hour of our time than have to dispute or settle something at a later date.


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## TUGBrian (Apr 11, 2017)

its such a trivial cost/effort involved to rescind as detailed in the contract ...why risk that over 23,000 dollars.


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## Michael Griffiths (Apr 13, 2017)

update, received confirmation from the office today that my ts contract has been officially recinded and all moneys returned to creditor.

THX to you all who saved me thousands!!!! I am indebted to this community for the info provided.


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