# Club Wyndham Access vs. Club Wyndham Select Questions



## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Trying to figure out if CWA could have better availability than CWS..........I know about the 13 month advance on units but want to know specifically about this:

Say I own 1,000,000 points in CWS. And Someone else owns 1,000,000 points in CWA.
Now....I (CWS) want to book a week somewhere for 105,000 points.
Is there any truth that I (CWS) might not see inventory because only so many units are allocated to CWS? But the person with CWA might see availability for the same search?

I saw a publication (Florida Public Offering Statement - CWA Vacation Ownership Plan)...
In it shows all resorts. And in each section of the resort there is a statement that goes something like this - of the 1000 units/900 units are for the interests of CWA.

Does that mean that when a CWS member goes to make a reservation, they are only picking from 200 units? And a CWA member gets to pick from 800?

If so, is there a certain time when ALL the inventory is released to anyone (CWA or CWS)?


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## paxsarah (Oct 10, 2018)

At 10 months it’s all the same. At 13 months, I believe the ratio is going to depend on exactly how much CWA owns at each particular resort, which will be different for each. Even if CWA owns a big chunk, if you own a deed at a resort that also has CWA inventory, keep in mind that during ARP you’re competing against a far, far smaller pool of owners.


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Ok, so at 10 months...points are points, Right? 100% sure?


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## Avislo (Oct 10, 2018)

For the ARP/RARP windows, there would be different availability between the two programs.  As Club Wyndham Select deeds are taken over by CWA than the ARP right goes to CWA.  When Club Wyndham Access points goes back the points do not necessarily release anything to Club Wyndham Select for purposes of ARP/RARP.


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## Avislo (Oct 10, 2018)

Points are points at 10 months appears to be a popular theory for those that wish to believe it.


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Points are points at 10 months appears to be a popular theory for those that wish to believe it.


???????????

Wish to believe it???? 
I don't believe anything out of Wyndham unless it is in black and white.....

So where is it that says, "POINTS ARE POINTS" 10 months out?
Thats all I need to know. I don't care about ARP's RARP's, because I never use them. I am a last minute, book for discounts kind of guy. But I have noticed since the new system came about...inventory SUCKS! I used to be able to book a lot more, a lot more often. That is what got me thinking about the allocation of units.


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## Avislo (Oct 10, 2018)

I have not seen anything from Wyndham that states points are points in writing.  Even if it is in writing, at least one poster implies that may not be the whole story.

Here is what I found pertaining to what Wyndham states about Club Wyndham Access:

"
CLUB WYNDHAM® Access
CLUB WYNDHAM® Access provides owners with the flexibility to make a reservation at a variety of resort locations within CLUB WYNDHAM Access to meet their vacation needs. Instead of a deed to an individual resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners receive an ownership certificate for the amount of CLUB WYNDHAM Access points purchased. 

As a CLUB WYNDHAM Access owner, reservations may be made at any resort that is part of CLUB WYNDHAM Access during the Advance Reservation Priority window, 13 to 10 months prior to check-in. All CLUB WYNDHAM Access resorts are your “home” resorts. 

There is a blended maintenance fee which is determined based on the amount of inventory from each resort location that is part of CLUB WYNDHAM Access. This inventory has a certain maintenance fee associated with it. The various maintenance fees and other expenses associated with CLUB WYNDHAM Access inventory are combined, or blended, and then allocated based on the number of points owned by each CLUB WYNDHAM Access owner.
Important Information:

CLUB WYNDHAM Access operates within the CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus program and offers members access to all of the benefits associated with the program."


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Does anyone have the book I referenced? :
                         (Florida Public Offering Statement - CWA Vacation Ownership Plan)...


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## paxsarah (Oct 10, 2018)

Here's what I rely on. This forum is full of insanely savvy people, and together there's a valuable pool of experience and knowledge. If there were some systematic way in which different types of ownerships (CWA vs deeded) were able to book inside the Standard Reservation window, these good folks would have sussed it out. I have seen people post repeated experiments of different types of bookings to test different processes and scenarios, people with way more points than I do and the free reservation transactions to keep drilling down to the answers. If any of these people ran up against a situation where deeded vs. CWA points were unable to book the same inventory, we'd know about it, and people would post their results. I haven't seen it, so I'm going with the empirical evidence that I've got that at 10 months, for all intents and purposes, points are still points.


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Thank you. I too rely on the knowledge of this forum. And I too was under the impression that Points were Points at 10 months. Just after seeing this book and the unit allocations, it got me to wonder. 
I am wiling to book and cancel reservations to test it out if anyone is interested?
Should be simple.....

Need a Wyndham owned Platinum Account with CWA to sit down with me and do a 1 for 1 booking experiment. We can do it at different dates and see if there are any discrepancies......

Worth a shot!


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## ronparise (Oct 10, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Points are points at 10 months appears to be a popular theory for those that wish to believe it.



So what do you believe


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## Braindead (Oct 10, 2018)

John_and_Val said:


> Ok, so at 10 months...points are points, Right? 100% sure?


Yes for the most part at 10 months points are points, here’s how to prove that.
How does a CWA owner make a reservation at a resort that isn’t in CWA? Because at 10 months it’s open inventory.

The exception to the points are points at 10 months is Presidential Reserve units held for PR owners until 30 days.

I think we are seeing the results of a good economy, more people are traveling


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## ronparise (Oct 10, 2018)

Avislo said:


> I have not seen anything from Wyndham that states points are points in writing.  Even if it is in writing, at least one poster implies that may not be the whole story.
> 
> Here is what I found pertaining to what Wyndham states about Club Wyndham Access:
> 
> ...




So there it is, in writing. “Points are points”


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Wow.....I knew you still "lurked" around here, Ron!!!!!
Glad to see you chime in!


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## Braindead (Oct 10, 2018)

John_and_Val said:


> Need a Wyndham owned Platinum Account with CWA to sit down with me and do a 1 for 1 booking experiment. We can do it at different dates and see if there are any discrepancies......
> 
> Worth a shot!


We have seen a difference during ARP. We haven’t seen a difference at 10 months.
Voyager is a different animal though as two Platinum owners have been able to see a difference in instant upgrades offered when making a reservation


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Again, I am not concerned with anything but booking availability....................


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## uscav8r (Oct 10, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Points are points at 10 months appears to be a popular theory for those that wish to believe it.



Everybody but Flat-Earthers and the like know this theory to be true. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Ok!
10 months - Points are Points!~!!!!!!

Thanks for the info!


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## Avislo (Oct 10, 2018)

Maybe a mutual respect for the Flat-Earthers and the like theories and the points at 10 months are points true believers theories can develop.  In the meantime, the tests for people that are interested maybe in order.  If someone posts something that they want me to check, let me know.  I am VIP Plat with primarily deeded ownership and one small CWA contract.  I am listed in the system as CWA Plat.


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## Avislo (Oct 10, 2018)

Ron, I think Braindead came the closet on this one at this point.  Most inventory is available between Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access at the 10 month point.  Other Wyndham Destination programs, I believe, have their own rules and sometimes different arrangements with Club Wyndham Plus/Access on shared inventory pools.


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## Richelle (Oct 10, 2018)

It doesn't say that specifically, but it does say that you can only book your home resort in the ARP period which is 10 months and 1 day to 13 months from check in.  

As far as the Public offering statement.  Someone pointed out the word "interest".  They explained to me that they have an "interest" in that unit, not that they own it outright.  So they may own 3 out of 52 weeks in unit 101, and 40 out of 52 weeks in unit 102.  The public offering statement doesn't make it clear how much inventory is owned by CWA.  Even if they said CWA owns half the inventory at the resort, it doesn't mean they own the week and room you want to reserve.  So most of their interest might be in one bedrooms at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the year has sparse availability.  There is no even divide and no way to predict how much availability there is during the time you want to go there.  When I last purchased, I had to decide whether to buy deeded or CWA.  CWA gives you ARP at 66+ resorts, but that does not mean you have better chances then deeded owners.  It's possible in some places you do, but it depends on the time of year and unit size you want.  With deeded, you can only book ARP in one resort, but you can choose a resort with low fees.  So, do I take the chance and go with CWA and hope it works better for me, or do I take the lower fees?  For me it was an easy answer because in 10 years as an owner, I've never had an issue getting what i want at 10 months out.  Of course, I never tried to get a four bedroom presidential at Bonnet creek during Christmas either.  I know of one woman who said CWA worked better for her because she needed the larger rooms and they were easier for her to get at 13 months out.  Maybe she has gotten lucky, or maybe CWA owns a lot of the presidential rooms where she travels.  I am not sure. Since I have never needed ARP, I went with the lower fees because I saved $40 a month over CWA.


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## ronparise (Oct 10, 2018)

John_and_Val said:


> Thank you. I too rely on the knowledge of this forum. And I too was under the impression that Points were Points at 10 months. Just after seeing this book and the unit allocations, it got me to wonder.
> I am wiling to book and cancel reservations to test it out if anyone is interested?
> Should be simple.....
> 
> ...




So you want to test the hypothesis. “In their use CWA points ‘see’ different inventory than CWS points at the 10 month mark, and only make the reservations

Hers how I would test it. The assumption Put together an account with a 77000 CWA contract and a 77000 CWS contract. Then make a 154000 point reservation


Remember what club wyndham is.. It is an exchange program.  What you own, whether it be UDI, Converted fixed and floating weeks, or CWA is dumped into a trust, and in exchange you get points. Those points are your currency with which you can make reservations at any of the properties in the trust.  

Think of your points as money.  I have money that comes from Social Security, some  from the State of Marylands retirement system,  Some came from Uber and I still have some left from the last Wyndhan rentals I did.  Those dollars are dollars, When I go to the store, the clerk dosent care where those dollars came from.. And when you go to Wyndham (inside 10 months) .the reservations clerk dosent care where your points came from... points are points

Dont over think this thing


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## CCdad (Oct 10, 2018)

Expanding a bit on Richelle's post:

The CWA Trust owns deeds that started out as fixed week resorts (Fairfield Glade and Fairfield Bay).  Although at the Glade they later added points based Select units - for example at Nottingham Villas.  Some of those deeds are for specific units and specific weeks that the CWA Trust may now own. The Trust may have assigned those units and weeks specific to its CWA owners.  Or perhaps the CWA Trust converted those fixed weeks into generic points and said that both CWA and Select owners have access to them for ARP.

Compare that to Bonnet Creek, a points based resort.  These BC Select and Presidential Reserve deeds were designated as a fractional "interest" in the total points for units of a specific building / floor, but not necessarily for a specific time frame. To the extent Wyndham acquired the BC Select deeds back and placed them into the CWA trust, I don't think the CWA trust can carve out which units and time frame is reserved for a CWA vs Select owners because the deed didn't give them the specific ownership rights to both the week and unit.  Is there sufficient transparency to make sure this isn't the case?


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## ronparise (Oct 10, 2018)

There was a day when I was really interested in how CWA worked at La Belle Maison  I wanted to buy either CWA or La Belle Maison deeded points, which ever would give me the best shot at Mardi Gras reservation   It took me a long time but I finally got a look at "The Book"  What I learned was that appx 25% of the resort was in CWA and 75% UDI

I dont remember how many units are at the resort but lets assume 100,   I thats the case there are 25 CWA rooms and 75 UDI  So at 13 months the 25 CWA rooms are open to CWA owners, and 75 rooms are open to the deeded owners, At 13 months the UDI owners reserve the UDI rooms  and CWA owners reserve CWA rooms   There is no crossover,

for the sake of this discussion lets assume every deeded owner owns enough points for one week. If that was the case there would 75 rooms, 52 weeks or potentially 3900 owners competing those 100 units

 there are over 60 resorts in CWA.. again for the sale of discussion lets assume 25 units at each one are in CWA  and with 52 weeks in the year  that would be potentially 78000 owners competing for those 25 mardi gras reservations... 

The odds against a La belle Maison owner getting a mardi gras reservation are constant.. There are a finite number of rooms and a finite number of points   With CWA however there are a finite number of rooms at La belle Maison but an almost unlimited number of CWA owners. ... So I bought La Belle Maison points for my Mardi Gras reservations.. 

But remember at 10 months points are points


The reason Im boring you with my story is simply to establish credibility.  I worked really hard and long to understand CWA (and the rest of Club Wyndham Plus)... I really do think I have a handle on it,, Loopholes have been closed, and rules changed, so when it comes to the details I havent kept up, but when it comes to the big picture stuff I think I still have it


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## John_and_Val (Oct 10, 2018)

Thank you all to the education. I try to know my "Wyndham" as best as possible. I also rely heavily for the valuable information that comes from many of you. 
Again - thank you


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## Irishrn (Oct 11, 2018)

Avislo said:


> Maybe a mutual respect for the Flat-Earthers and the like theories and the points at 10 months are points true believers theories can develop.  In the meantime, the tests for people that are interested maybe in order.  If someone posts something that they want me to check, let me know.  I am VIP Plat with primarily deeded ownership and one small CWA contract.  I am listed in the system as CWA Plat.



We were told our maintenance fees were going to sky rocket /projected cost $81,000 over 15 yrs. (450.00 per month) talked into purchasing a deed in NYC for additional $48,000, total equity of $84,000. Points going from 200K to 400 K per year. Maintenance fee increasing to $169 a month from $109 a month. Maximum increase in maintenance fee of 3% per year. Can sell deed after 2 1/2 years. Is this a reasonable deal?


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## Jan M. (Oct 11, 2018)

Irishrn said:


> We were told our maintenance fees were going to sky rocket /projected cost $81,000 over 15 yrs. (450.00 per month) talked into purchasing a deed in NYC for additional $48,000, total equity of $84,000. Points going from 200K to 400 K per year. Maintenance fee increasing to $169 a month from $109 a month. Maximum increase in maintenance fee of 3% per year. Can sell deed after 2 1/2 years. Is this a reasonable deal?



No it isn't!


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## CCdad (Oct 11, 2018)

Irishrn said:


> We were told our maintenance fees were going to sky rocket /projected cost $81,000 over 15 yrs. (450.00 per month) talked into purchasing a deed in NYC for additional $48,000, total equity of $84,000. Points going from 200K to 400 K per year. Maintenance fee increasing to $169 a month from $109 a month. Maximum increase in maintenance fee of 3% per year. Can sell deed after 2 1/2 years. Is this a reasonable deal?



This isn't true, the salesperson has no way of predicting your MFs more than 1 year out. The resort's 2019 annual budget isn't sent to the resort owners until the annual meeting and proxy statement are mailed out.

If you're still within your rescission period, then send Wyndham a letter and rescind immediately.  You need to indicate in the letter the NYC contract number purchased, your intent to rescind the purchase and have all owners on your purchase conteact sign the rescission letter.

The instructions and address should be in the contract you signed, it's typically required to be sent to a Las Vegas NV address, on W Charleston Blvd.

Good luck.


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## ecwinch (Oct 11, 2018)

Irishrn said:


> We were told our maintenance fees were going to sky rocket /projected cost $81,000 over 15 yrs. (450.00 per month) talked into purchasing a deed in NYC for additional $48,000, total equity of $84,000. Points going from 200K to 400 K per year. Maintenance fee increasing to $169 a month from $109 a month. Maximum increase in maintenance fee of 3% per year. Can sell deed after 2 1/2 years. Is this a reasonable deal?


Horrible deal - rescind if you can.

That is roughly $2.40 per 1k of points. $1.80 per 1k it would barely be a deal. And buying from the developer rarely makes sense, unless you are doing so to PIC a week and attain some meaningful VIP level. Even then it might not make sense.


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## Avislo (Oct 11, 2018)

Not sure why the rule is you can sell in 2 1/2 years is.  If you like Wyndham Resorts, use and enjoy.


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## Mr. Phil (Dec 23, 2022)

How do you see availability if you own both Access and Select points within the 10 month window?


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 23, 2022)

Mr. Phil said:


> How do you see availability if you own both Access and Select points within the 10 month window?



The two inventory buckets and the two points buckets are essentially combined.  There is NO way to tell which inventory is CWA or which is CWS, WITHIN the 10 month mark.  Now you can only distinguish between resale and developer points within 10 months.


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## Mr. Phil (Dec 23, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> The two inventory buckets and the two points buckets are essentially combined.  There is NO way to tell which inventory is CWA or which is CWS, WITHIN the 10 month mark.  Now you can only distinguish between resale and developer points within 10 months.


Thanks. Figured this was the case.


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