# [Persistent Rumor] Marriott Leaving Interval International



## Eli Mairs (Feb 27, 2018)

We went to a presentation at Lakeshore Reserve yesterday. 
We were told that Marriott is leaving I.I., and this is the last year that Marriott will be depositing weeks into I.I. Once these weeks are depleted, I.I. Will have no more Marriott weeks.
The sales rep mentioned the name of the new company. I should have taken notes, as we were told many things that made no sense to us.
Today, at the Sabal Palms wine and cheese, the Marriott fellow we spoke to, knew nothing about it. He spoke to his boss, who also knew nothing.
Do you Tuggers know about this? 
Am I missing something?


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## JIMinNC (Feb 27, 2018)

Some of the sales reps have been using that line for a long time as a scare tactic to sell against people who want to keep using II instead of buying points. Not to say it won't ever happen, but the local sales reps likely know very little about strategic corporate plans until they are announced publicly.

On the other hand, other sales reps have been using the more real rumors that Marriott Vacations Worldwide may actually try to *acquire* Interval Leisure Group. There may actually be a small bit of fire with that smoke. There were credible reports in Bloomberg News and other business/investment news sources that such an offer was indeed made a few months ago, but recent letters to ILG shareholders from investment firm Front Four Capital (who is pushing ILG to sell to Marriott Vacations) seems to indicate that the ILG management and board may have rebuffed Marriott's offer. So Front Four is apparently pushing a competing slate of directors in an attempt to get them elected to the ILG board, and they would presumably be more receptive to an offer from Marriott Vacations. We will see.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 27, 2018)

If Marriott pulls out of II, look for ILGs stock to plummet and then VAC to move in and scoop it up at a bargain.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 27, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> If Marriott pulls out of II, look for ILGs stock to plummet and then VAC to move in and scoop it up at a bargain.


Isn't this inevitable? I mean they both have to know how much Marriott means to II's success. At some point they play hard ball for a better deal.


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 27, 2018)

These lies are all to defeat the perceived ability to exchange in II. I was once told at a presentation at Oceana Palms that you could not stay there on an interval exchange. I looked at the sales rep and said I was there on an interval exchange for a total cost of less than $600 and they said well you won't be able to do it any longer. That was before they opened the second tower and now it is even easier to stay there.

Nothing you will hear at a presentation is true. Only one thing is true. 99% of all timeshares drastically decrease in value and Marriott is no exception, weeks or DC Points.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 27, 2018)

Saintsfanfl said:


> These lies are all to defeat the perceived ability to exchange in II. I was once told at a presentation at Oceana Palms that you could not stay there an interval exchange. I looked at the sales rep and said I was there on an interval exchange for a total cost of less than $600 and they said well you won't be able to do it any longer. That was before they opened the second tower and now it is even easier to stay there.



So true. It's fun when you are staying there on an exchange, and they tell you (before you tell them) you can't stay there via II. And you whip out the confirmation. As you say, they just come up with more excuses, or not next time, or whatever. I did that too! Yes, any day now for over 10 years or so I've heard that we won't be able to trade into other Marriotts, etc. I also like hearing how my lockoff doesn't trade well, another on my long time favorites that I have a history sheet of where I've traded into. 

Back to the topic, I thought Marriott was II? Not the entity, but, basically without Marriott, II isn't much. I would think it's to Marriotts advantage for their "flexibility" argument to be in II. MVCI without II is a massive loss for me at least. There really are not that many MVCI resorts, we go to many places where there are none. I would think it's unlikely myself. But you never know. So many rumors going around.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 27, 2018)

Various sales offices have been using this as bait for years.  Sure, it's possible for MVW to sever the affiliation with II anytime but if it happens, I wouldn't expect the sales staff to be told about it until it's officially announced.  (No sense in giving employees who aren't on a need-to-know basis the opportunity to share corporate secrets and maybe jeopardize deals.)  Plus if/when it happens, existing II Members will probably be able to be dually affiliated with II and whatever new exchange company MVW contracts with - that's what happened when MVC left RCI and went with II years ago.


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## Jayco29D (Feb 28, 2018)

Buy where you want to stay and think of exchanging as a bonus!


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## pedro47 (Feb 28, 2018)

I have hear this  rumor by some Marriott sales staff  for the past five (5) years.


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## Bucky (Feb 28, 2018)

Every 6mos or so a thread like this pops up! And people wonder why everybody hates a timeshare salesperson? If their lips are moving, they are usually lying! Just another reason why we never ever attend presentations. We don’t care how attractive the incentives are.


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> Back to the topic, I thought Marriott was II? Not the entity, but, basically without Marriott, II isn't much. I would think it's to Marriotts advantage for their "flexibility" argument to be in II. MVCI without II is a massive loss for me at least. There really are not that many MVCI resorts, we go to many places where there are none. I would think it's unlikely myself. But you never know. So many rumors going around.


While I don't necessarily disagree, let me approach this from a different angle.  I think most of us here would look at this through the Marriott lens and for us an II without Marriott is difficult to imagine.  But if you look at II from a non Marriott view you aren't likely to exchange to Marriott anyway, at least for the best options other than short notice, so Marriott's presence or absence doesn't have that much effect on their usage or options.  And now II has even less inventory that it once did.



Jayco29D said:


> Buy where you want to stay and think of exchanging as a bonus!


You've been reading too many DVC boards and it often isn't applicable even there, LOL.  I do think exchanging is an integral part of usage for Marriott far more than for DVC.


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## Jayco29D (Feb 28, 2018)

Dean said:


> While I don't necessarily disagree, let me approach this from a different angle.  I think most of us here would look at this through the Marriott lens and for us an II without Marriott is difficult to imagine.  But if you look at II from a non Marriott view you aren't likely to exchange to Marriott anyway, at least for the best options other than short notice, so Marriott's presence or absence doesn't have that much effect on their usage or options.  And now II has even less inventory that it once did.
> 
> You've been reading too many DVC boards and it often isn't applicable even there, LOL.  I do think exchanging is an integral part of usage for Marriott far more than for DVC.



Actually, I adopted this philosophy from TUG (not DVC). I have been reading too many TUG boards! LOL I agree with you Dean. The ability to be able to exchange is important and beneficial for TS owners. I agree trading on II it is an integral part of usage for most Marriott deeded week owners. I certainly like being part of II because they have more resorts I like than RCI and a lot more inventory than SFX. I have not yet used II but I can imagine using them one day for Getaways or to deposit the studio portion of a lockoff.


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## l0410z (Feb 28, 2018)

SueDonJ said:


> Plus if/when it happens, existing II Members will probably be able to be dually affiliated with II and whatever new exchange company MVW contracts with - that's what happened when MVC left RCI and went with II years ago.



You are 100% correct.  When I purchased the Monarch resale in 1996 it traded both RCI and II.  I also purchased a  Resort World or Orlando the same year that only traded II. I belonged to RCI and II  a few times over the years.  When Resort World became Celebrity it moved to RCI.  I was able to trade both RCI and II.  When I gave it away a few years ago, the new owner was only able to trade  RCI.  When I asked why, I was told while I was grandfathered in, the new owner will not be.



Dean said:


> While I don't necessarily disagree, let me approach this from a different angle.  I think most of us here would look at this through the Marriott lens and for us an II without Marriott is difficult to imagine.  But if you look at II from a non Marriott view you aren't likely to exchange to Marriott anyway, at least for the best options other than short notice, so Marriott's presence or absence doesn't have that much effect on their usage or options.  And now II has even less inventory that it once did.



There is a II facebook group.  Based on comments over time,  I agree with you 100%.  Most II members view Marriott as just another timeshare option and many can't get into it anyway because of the priority of Marriott to Marriott exchanges.    When Marriott moved from RCI, RCI moved on and forward.  II will do the same if it was to happen.

I can count on one finger the Marriott to non Marriott trades I did over 20 plus years.  Unless MVCI makes the new exchange system less favorable to week owners, which I doubt since that is where most of the prime weeks come from, nothing should change for most of us.


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2018)

l0410z said:


> YThere is a II facebook group.  Based on comments over time,  I agree with you 100%.  Most II members view Marriott as just another timeshare option and many can't get into it anyway because of the priority of Marriott to Marriott exchanges.    When Marriott moved from RCI, RCI moved on and forward.  II will do the same.


If this were to happen, I think there's a good chance II members who are not Marriott would be better off.  It would force II to streamline their admin costs plus force them to focus on value and customer service more than they have.  I'm not thinking it likely as a change from II to RCI but in effect DC and Trust points will pull volume away from II over time and if Marriott gives additional pushes to including those not included now at a favorable cost, including resale buyers after the cutoff, that will further erode the true participation for MVC in II.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 28, 2018)

I see your point Dean, maybe my understanding of II business is not so good! Thank you for that. I probably recall some comment made by one of those TS salesmen. You know, that reliable source. 

But I don't understand this part: "including resale buyers after the cutoff", I assume you are referring to post 2010 resale weeks? If such a week were able to be enrolled, say for free even, I don't see how that affects II much, at least in a negative way. I would assume most people would not trade their unit for points, seems like you lose on that deal. Thinking of how we have used the system for so long, we would still exchange. In fact, we would exchange more. Right now, such a week we would never exchange as we'd have to pay for another II membership and that's simply not worth it to us. If the week were enrolled, we would not have to pay II again and therefore would exchange all or part of it on a fairly regular basis. So, for us at least, we would use II more. Are we perhaps the minority users? Or, does your comment refer to something other than post 2010 resale weeks? =


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## JIMinNC (Feb 28, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I assume you are referring to post 2010 resale weeks? If such a week were able to be enrolled, say for free even, I don't see how that affects II much, at least in a negative way. I would assume most people would not trade their unit for points, seems like you lose on that deal. Thinking of how we have used the system for so long, we would still exchange. In fact, we would exchange more. Right now, such a week we would never exchange as we'd have to pay for another II membership and that's simply not worth it to us. If the week were enrolled, we would not have to pay II again and therefore would exchange all or part of it on a fairly regular basis. So, for us at least, we would use II more. Are we perhaps the minority users?



I'll offer a totally different perspective.

I'm in the camp that vastly prefers to "exchange" using the DC Points system rather than II. If I could have enrolled a post-2010 resale week, I would have bought an Every Year resale unit at Maui Ocean Club instead of the EOY we just bought. I bought EOY so I could just use it EOY and not have to worry about exchanging in the years we don't go to Maui. I didn't even open an II account for that week. But if had had the option to convert that week to points in the years we don't go to Maui, I would love that.

I've traded our enrolled Barony Beach Club week twice (2017 week and 2018 week) through II just because it offered a better value than exchanging for points, but those exchanges have just reinforced my dislike for the "Deposit and Wait for a Match" timeshare exchange model. We got what we wanted - HHI Grande Ocean - with the 2017 week (although that trade got cancelled by Hurricane Irma and we've rebooked a replacement week for Palm Desert this coming November), and we're on deposit waiting for a fall 2019 trade to Newport Coast with the 2018 week, but I just dislike that whole II exchange process. Electing for points is not as financially attractive because that Silver Barony week is not an efficient point generator per maintenance fee dollar, but I'm willing to take the $$ hit to gain the better, easier, and more flexible booking approach of DC Points. We elected for points in 2019 and will likely do so again for 2020 and beyond.

If we can ever find a way to enroll the EOY Maui week and/or get more points, I'll probably sell the Barony week. It seems to be a decent II trader, but if you don't like trading, it's just not worth it. It's easy and low stress to trade it to Gold season in HHI - and I would probably continue to be willing to do that kind of simple II trade - but we may buy a full vacation home in HHI, so the Barony week would become unnecessary for HHI access. At that point it just becomes either a general trader or DC point generator for us.

As far as your question about being a minority of users, based on comments I see on Facebook groups of MVC owners, the amount of financial analysis and evaluation that TUGgers do is way out of the ordinary. Typical users don't really worry that much about the numbers it seems. I see many people talking on those pages about all of the great Explorer Collection tours they've used their enrolled points for, and those options are generally panned on TUG as poor uses of points (which they are). So, yes, I do think we here are in the minority.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 28, 2018)

So, it sounds as if you are in the mostly (if not entirely) Marriott only camp of users. From what it sounds like, you typically have a specific place and time you want to go. We actually find trading super easy and not a problem or hassle at all. We do Marriott maybe 30-40% of the time, the destinations are just too limited for us. So, our method is, gee, let's go somewhere new this year, let's see what we can trade into. Oh, looks like I can get something nice in Uruguay, let's go. To do that via points seems like more of a hassle as you have to buy into II in essence via a too large number of points to do such a trade. So many places we go have no Marriotts. Unless you have another way to do that, the only way is II or renting. We find that going this route opens us up to places we had not really thought about going, but, then appear very attractive once it hits the radar. And we don't do hotels, so, not a choice. So, "let's see where we can go" is obviously much different than your "deposit and wait". Different usages. 

I can see though how some or even many might like the simplicity of points. The salesman usually try and sell that aspect during presentations, and it's true. It's always interesting to hear other peoples views on this sort of thing. It seems like one guys hassle is another guys gold mine, etc! But it's enjoyable to read about the different perspectives and appreciate them. 

Even when we've had a specific place we want to go, like our upcoming Canary Island trip, we still generally have good luck with our trades. Really, in 20 years, we've never been unable to go anywhere we wanted to. But, at times, it does take some persistence so that could be considered hassle, so, I get it.  But points can be too. When we tried to get into Malaga, we had to go on a waiting list for our points usage, which sounds a lot like your II waiting. 

So, we are hoping one day we can get the post 2010 enrolled one day so we can trade more. We find trades actually fun! Last year, we stayed at The Colonies at Williamsburg, and, The Estates of Kings Creek. Both were good, neither a Marriott (but there is one there), however, we discovered we really like the Estates and what it offers on site, and will gladly go back any time we can. I like timeshares that are essentially houses, you get your own. So, it was a good find we'd have never found otherwise without II. I would go ballistic if II went away with no replacement in other words! It's an absolute requirement for us. 

I guess I am learning that points are not viewed as a negative system by all as activity on other websites forums seemed to indicate when conducting conversations there.


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I see your point Dean, maybe my understanding of II business is not so good! Thank you for that. I probably recall some comment made by one of those TS salesmen. You know, that reliable source.
> 
> But I don't understand this part: "including resale buyers after the cutoff", I assume you are referring to post 2010 resale weeks? If such a week were able to be enrolled, say for free even, I don't see how that affects II much, at least in a negative way. I would assume most people would not trade their unit for points, seems like you lose on that deal. Thinking of how we have used the system for so long, we would still exchange. In fact, we would exchange more. Right now, such a week we would never exchange as we'd have to pay for another II membership and that's simply not worth it to us. If the week were enrolled, we would not have to pay II again and therefore would exchange all or part of it on a fairly regular basis. So, for us at least, we would use II more. Are we perhaps the minority users? Or, does your comment refer to something other than post 2010 resale weeks? =


The presumption is that enrolled owners are less likely to use II and thus II will have less weeks to deal with.  If they have much for non enrolled weeks or are not a part of the Trust or DC they likely already a personal II membership.


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## vpplayer (Feb 28, 2018)

MVCI still using it as a sales tactic:  per our presentation salesperson this morning at Ko Olina, Marriott is leaving II.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Feb 28, 2018)

June of 2018 will mark 8 years since Marriott first introduced the Destination Point System and I believe the Points Program has done quite well.

Owners of weeks purchased prior to 6/2010 can easily use or convert to points, while most resale weeks acquired after 6/2010 have no choice but to use Interval International should they desire to make an exchange.  For this reason alone I believe that Interval International will continue to flourish.

I don't believe Marriott will be leaving Interval International anytime soon.


.


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 28, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> I'll offer a totally different perspective.
> As far as your question about being a minority of users, based on comments I see on Facebook groups of MVC owners, the amount of financial analysis and evaluation that TUGgers do is way out of the ordinary. Typical users don't really worry that much about the numbers it seems. I see many people talking on those pages about all of the great Explorer Collection tours they've used their enrolled points for, and those options are generally panned on TUG as poor uses of points (which they are). So, yes, I do think we here are in the minority.



This is a fact.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 1, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> I'll offer a totally different perspective.
> 
> As far as your question about being a minority of users, based on comments I see on Facebook groups of MVC owners, the amount of financial analysis and evaluation that TUGgers do is way out of the ordinary. Typical users don't really worry that much about the numbers it seems. I see many people talking on those pages about all of the great Explorer Collection tours they've used their enrolled points for, and those options are generally panned on TUG as poor uses of points (which they are). So, yes, I do think we here are in the minority.



Jim, your post is so accurate. Sometimes my eyes just gloss over at some analysis paralysis by Tuggers. I like a good deal but it is not worth my time to maximize every dollar on every vacation or waste so much time on minutiae. Happier people are "satisficers" not "maximizers". It sounds like the folks in the MVC FB owner group are happy.

Here are some good articles. Many Tuggers appear to be maximizers.

https://www.psychologistworld.com/cognitive/maximizers-satisficers-decision-making

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201109/field-guide-the-maximizer


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 1, 2018)

I would be guilty of that as my profile states. I am mostly a maximizer when it comes to vacations and money, but nothing else. But that fits the profile as most people are not one of the other in all aspects. As a former system and network admin (amongst other tech jobs), had to make quick instant judgement calls all the time when massive money was on the line. Other times, when a complex situation arose, it was more time for maximizing to debug very complex systems as it was necessary in some cases to resolve a situation. It may not be worth non maximizers time, very true statement. But that does not mean it can't or shouldn't be worth someone else's time, perhaps that gives them great joy (the process). Satisficers like to take the work that a maximizer has done and use it. Coming from where I came to where I am now, I am glad I was mostly a maximizer on money. If you say that a maximizer can't be as happy by definition as some articles claim, then I would suggest the population of true maximizers by that definition is very very tiny. The part about 'buyers remorse' is 100% untrue, at least for me, so, perhaps I don't fit their definition of maximizer. Or, they are wrong or it doesn't always apply. I never regret a decision. So, in that sense, I think one can learn to be a "controlled maximizer" (invented term). Which then becomes a satisficer with nothing more than a little more stringent requirements. Maybe that's really what I am at least in money. I would expect a maximizer to not be able to invest money for example, since the possibilities are really endless and far too complex with too many uncertainties. 

Maximizers seem to stress out satisficers for some reason. I really don't understand that at all, why would what someone else does in their own life stress you out? But I get the feeling I am stressing some of you out. 

My own conversations on various timesharing forums had lead me to believe the exact opposite, that the people who hated timeshares mostly were the ones who expected everything to just work with no effort or time, i.e., they wanted to believe the salesman and were shocked that maybe it wasn't all true. But I can see from this forum, there is another class of people who appear to be happy and appear to not spend too much time. I am very glad to see that, too many negatives out there.


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## tperez (Mar 1, 2018)

vpplayer said:


> MVCI still using it as a sales tactic:  per our presentation salesperson this morning at Ko Olina, Marriott is leaving II.



And per our presentation salesperson yesterday morning at Grande Vista, the Marriott merger with ILG is a done deal.


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## bazzap (Mar 1, 2018)

tperez said:


> And per our presentation salesperson yesterday morning at Grande Vista, the Marriott merger with ILG is a done deal.


Your salesperson must be very busy then, running resort sales presentations whilst at the same time playing a key role in MVC’s Corporate Mergers and Acquisitions team


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## Bucky (Mar 1, 2018)

I’m another in the buy where you want to go camp.

Years ago we never stayed where we bought. We always bought the cheapest MF units that would get us the trades we wanted through II. That all changed when my medical problems reached the stage of limiting our ability to travel.

The only time we trade now is to maybe get a week in a higher season than what we currently own at our home resort.

I’ve only been into timesharing for about 15 years but in my limited time most owners at all resorts worldwide don’t have a clue about trading. They bought at their resort to stay at their resort. Let’s be realistic. TUG is a small drop in the bucket when it comes to time share ownership and when I talk to people about TUG they have never heard of it.

I surely wouldn’t spend the money buying a Marriott just to trade with. My SBP that I paid $1 for that after all these years still has MF of only $425 has got me into all the Marriotts I’ve wanted to see plus given me priority into the Weston’s I prefer over most of the Marriotts I’ve stayed at. I understand there is a lot of disposable income out there, just not from me.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Mar 1, 2018)

Until very recently I never used II for a trade. I am a dc Points owner and was looking on the II site for availability on specific dates for specific places and found something.  I was Instantly able to trade some of my dc points to II and in return received three one-bedroom units at the Vidanta Grand Luxxe in Mexico which is on par (or higher rated) than a MVCI Resort.  It takes some work and patience to find something but I think II helps open doors to locations and resorts which Marriott does not have.  One thing however, this would only work for me with instant finds and confirmations.....I would never deposit my Marriott points or week into II and hope something becomes available later on - because if it does not, you cannot pull your deposit back to the Marriott account.


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## Dean (Mar 1, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> Jim, your post is so accurate. Sometimes my eyes just gloss over at some analysis paralysis by Tuggers. I like a good deal but it is not worth my time to maximize every dollar on every vacation or waste so much time on minutiae. Happier people are "satisficers" not "maximizers". It sounds like the folks in the MVC FB owner group are happy.
> 
> Here are some good articles. Many Tuggers appear to be maximizers.
> 
> ...


I would agree with the idea of not being penny wise and pound foolish.  One of my assumptions is that those that are OK with just throwing the money away and not worrying about it will not buy timeshares because without savings there is no reason to buy one.  Thus it follows that finances have a certain amount of importance to all in question.  What I've seen over the years, esp with DVC which you own, is that often many make poor decisions and try to play the "I'm happy with my decision" as a trump card to make it a good decision.  IMO they are 2 different things.  I would agree that there comes a point where maximizing savings/benefits can be the end point.  Personally I enjoy the chase, like Vegas only the odds are in my favor.  The better informed one is and the less emotions come into play, the better decisions one will make.  It is important to me to be a good steward of the things entrusted to me both time and money.


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## littlestar (Mar 1, 2018)

We gave our Marriott Branson trader away during the Great Recession. When we bought another Marriott last year, I wanted a location I knew I would use if trading went away through Interval. So we bought a Grande Vista platinum 2 bedroom. Between grand kids and snow birding, I would definitely use it.


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## JIMinNC (Mar 1, 2018)

tperez said:


> And per our presentation salesperson yesterday morning at Grande Vista, the Marriott merger with ILG is a done deal.



On Wednesday's ILG earnings conference call, the ILG CEO Craig Nash (who I'm sure is a lot more in the loop than your sales rep!) said the following about their "strategic opportunities", which is usually a euphemism for mergers and acquisitions:

They have complete confidence in their current strategic direction and business plan
The Board is nevertheless committed to exploring all paths to maximize shareholder value
The company and its advisors are engaged on a variety of strategic opportunities
The Board has designated a special strategic review committee composed of independent directors to evaluate strategic opportunities and the proper engagement with relevant parties
The Board, management, and their advisors are in discussions with multiple parties, but there is no assurance that any transaction will result from those discussions.
He then specifically stated he would answer no questions with regard to the strategic discussions.
So conversations are underway, and it's likely that Marriott Vacations Worldwide is one of the "parties" that they are engaging with, but few, if any, below the Board and Executive Suite really know what is going to happen.


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## l0410z (Mar 1, 2018)

I think I sit in the middle.   I do a high level analysis.  For example I found a fixed summer week at the Monarch that I paid 5000 for and I can rent for 2300 so I purchased a second week on HHI.  I enjoy HHI, I do not mind going, I can rent it  and I actually traded into the GO during the summer 2 of 3 years of ownership.  In general,  I want to pay as little as possible.  To a certain extend, I do not mind paying a *little more* for convenience. Example today I did an exchange for a studio at the Grand Chateau for a 2 BR at the Marriott's Legend in Panama City during Christmas week.  I paid the upgrade and re-trade fee.  Anytime between now and then I can re-trade for anything my wife wants to do.. even if it is back to a studio. If not, this is a great value for me.     

  The largest facebook group I know for Marriott that is not run by Marriott  is Marriott Vacation Club Owners 55 and Older.  It has less than 2700 members.  If someone can point to a larger one please let me know.   It is one of the only facebook groups  that does not allow buy/sell or rent postings. It is purely for exchange of ideas, opinions and information.     It is also  the sweat spot for legacy timeshare owners, some that have enrolled weeks, some that did not enroll their weeks and some who purchased additional DP's.   No one can argue that the enrolled legacy owners  and purchased additional points  have the lowest cost of ownership for MF's per point that can take advantage of all that DP's have to offer.

Having belonged to the facebook group (55 and older) for a couple of years, i have read feedback on the tours that are 100% positive. It is not a large sample size to  number of posts for this group but great feedback.  I have seen comments and questions on posts about tours that discussed the point usage vs. real cost.  Again, not a real big sample size.  I do believe that there are people who do not think about the real cost of a tour.   I believe there is a bigger group who know that it is not cost justified but do it anyway because they already have the points and it is a sunken cost.  They are happy but their is a big difference between knowing it and still doing tours vs. not caring. The people I know who can really not care about the cost of vacations (also a small sample size) do not own timeshares because they can afford to spend what they need to.

Personally, I believe the same as many that cash is king and with the rental of my timeshares, it gives me independence from both II and MVCI.  My first Monarch week is already rented for this summer for 2750.  We are planning a family cruise if it can be coordinated but if not it will help fund a tour in Europe for my wife and myself.   The destination still TBD.

TUG members are are knowledgeable and while some over analyse, I am not sure it is proportionally any different then those who don't care how they use DP.   No matter what your knowledge level is most people are well aware it isn't a fair exchange value for a tour but do it anyway because they can.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 1, 2018)

Steve Fatula said:


> I would be guilty of that as my profile states. I am mostly a maximizer when it comes to vacations and money, but nothing else. But that fits the profile as most people are not one of the other in all aspects. As a former system and network admin (amongst other tech jobs), had to make quick instant judgement calls all the time when massive money was on the line. Other times, when a complex situation arose, it was more time for maximizing to debug very complex systems as it was necessary in some cases to resolve a situation. It may not be worth non maximizers time, very true statement. But that does not mean it can't or shouldn't be worth someone else's time, perhaps that gives them great joy (the process). Satisficers like to take the work that a maximizer has done and use it. Coming from where I came to where I am now, I am glad I was mostly a maximizer on money. If you say that a maximizer can't be as happy by definition as some articles claim, then I would suggest the population of true maximizers by that definition is very very tiny. The part about 'buyers remorse' is 100% untrue, at least for me, so, perhaps I don't fit their definition of maximizer. Or, they are wrong or it doesn't always apply. I never regret a decision. So, in that sense, I think one can learn to be a "controlled maximizer" (invented term). Which then becomes a satisficer with nothing more than a little more stringent requirements. Maybe that's really what I am at least in money. I would expect a maximizer to not be able to invest money for example, since the possibilities are really endless and far too complex with too many uncertainties.
> 
> Maximizers seem to stress out satisficers for some reason. I really don't understand that at all, why would what someone else does in their own life stress you out? But I get the feeling I am stressing some of you out.
> 
> My own conversations on various timesharing forums had lead me to believe the exact opposite, that the people who hated timeshares mostly were the ones who expected everything to just work with no effort or time, i.e., they wanted to believe the salesman and were shocked that maybe it wasn't all true. But I can see from this forum, there is another class of people who appear to be happy and appear to not spend too much time. I am very glad to see that, too many negatives out there.



Loved reading your response. A true Maximizer way of thinking. Or maybe a “Controlled Maximizer” as you said! LOL

Yes, I lean toward being a Maximizer too and need to control those tendencies because when I get too obsessed with the details of maximizing, I stress myself out. My spouse is a Satisficer. We make a good partnership. My spouse laughs at my maximizing tendencies.

I used to be an uncontrolled Maximizer so I can relate to the article’s description of why Maximizers can be unhappy and unsatisfied. It was hard for me to make decisions and I would have regrets until I learned to control my maximizing and grow a few satisficing skills.

Now I am more easily able to take risks and make investments and purchases and worry less about whether I got the absolute best deal. There is always a better deal out there so if I come out in a realistic range, I am pleased.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 1, 2018)

P.S. I agree that Maximizers can stress other people out. I think the reason why is because, overall, if we are effective and happy “Controlled Maximizers” then we are successful. When people who do not have good maximizing skills observe us, our process is too overwhelming to them and too much work for most folks, so they get stressed out by us. Also I have observed that many people wish they could be more successful at getting what they want but they do not want to or are unable to put in the Maximizing time and skills. So, “wanna be Maximizers” may get stressed and give up, or just go with the flow and are happy with what they have. Or they let others do the work and then copy. Just a few observations. I am sure there are other reasons too.


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## taterhed (Mar 1, 2018)

OMG.  I'm a Maximizer.

Perhaps I should join a self-help group.
Does anybody know a good group and where to find the reviews, ratings, costs and descriptions?


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 1, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> Jim, your post is so accurate. Sometimes my eyes just gloss over at some analysis paralysis by Tuggers. I like a good deal but it is not worth my time to maximize every dollar on every vacation or waste so much time on minutiae. Happier people are "satisficers" not "maximizers". It sounds like the folks in the MVC FB owner group are happy.
> 
> Here are some good articles. Many Tuggers appear to be maximizers.
> 
> ...



Great articles.  I too am a maximizer and my DH is a satisficer so it works out well.  He has never been on TUG and probably never will.  I am the Chief Vacation Officer (CVO) in our house - he is happy to show up wherever I have planned our travels.  Planning the trips and maximizing our points is fun for me.

I treat maximizing for points/vacations as a game/hobby and don't have buyers remorse for most day to day purchases.  There is one exception:  I have buyers remorse about purchasing our first timeshare from the developer and overpaid (but that may also create buyer's remorse for a satisficer as well!)


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## Jayco29D (Mar 1, 2018)

taterhed said:


> OMG.  I'm a Maximizer.
> 
> Perhaps I should join a self-help group.
> Does anybody know a good group and where to find the reviews, ratings, costs and descriptions?



A perfect Maximizer response. Even for self help, we want to maximize our selection process with reviews, ratings, costs and descriptions! LOL


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## Jayco29D (Mar 1, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Great articles.  I too am a maximizer and my DH is a satisficer so it works out well.  He has never been on TUG and probably never will.  I am the Chief Vacation Officer (CVO) in our house - he is happy to show up wherever I have planned our travels.  Planning the trips and maximizing our points is fun for me.
> 
> I treat maximizing for points/vacations as a game/hobby and don't have buyers remorse for most day to day purchases.  There is one exception:  I have buyers remorse about purchasing our first timeshare from the developer and overpaid (but that may also create buyer's remorse for a satisficer as well!)



Yes, I am a CVO too. My Satisficer spouse is happy with whatever I plan, although I have been warned I am not allowed to buy anymore timeshares unless I sell something. In spite of this warning, my spouse signed another contract with me last night but has no idea what anything in it means. Maximizers and Satisficers make good couples.


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## klpca (Mar 1, 2018)

Ha! CVO. I finally have a title.


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## bazzap (Mar 1, 2018)

l0410z said:


> I think I sit in the middle.   I do a high level analysis.  For example I found a fixed summer week at the Monarch that I paid 5000 for and I can rent for 2300 so I purchased a second week on HHI.  I enjoy HHI, I do not mind going, I can rent it  and I actually traded into the GO during the summer 2 of 3 years of ownership.  In general,  I want to pay as little as possible.  To a certain extend, I do not mind paying a *little more* for convenience. Example today I did an exchange for a studio at the Grand Chateau for a 2 BR at the Marriott's Legend in Panama City during Christmas week.  I paid the upgrade and re-trade fee.  Anytime between now and then I can re-trade for anything my wife wants to do.. even if it is back to a studio. If not, this is a great value for me.
> 
> The largest facebook group I know for Marriott that is not run by Marriott  is Marriott Vacation Club Owners 55 and Older.  It has less than 2700 members.  If someone can point to a larger one please let me know.   It is one of the only facebook groups  that does not allow buy/sell or rent postings. It is purely for exchange of ideas, opinions and information.     It is also  the sweat spot for legacy timeshare owners, some that have enrolled weeks, some that did not enroll their weeks and some who purchased additional DP's.   No one can argue that the enrolled legacy owners  and purchased additional points  have the lowest cost of ownership for MF's per point that can take advantage of all that DP's have to offer.
> 
> ...


There are several facebook groups for Marriott Vacation Club that are not run by Marriott Vacation Club, which are larger
https://www.facebook.com/groups/31401268823/
has 9,347 members


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## JIMinNC (Mar 1, 2018)

Also this one for Destination Club Owners. 2700 members
https://www.facebook.com/groups/265870520207317/?fref=nf


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## ecwinch (Mar 1, 2018)

Dovetailing into JIMInNC's comments, if this sales "rumor"/lie were true then that would be a material fact that ILG would need to disclose to investors.

Wish we would modify the post title to reflect that this is a sales rumor and not imply it is a fact. I dont think the ? is sufficient.


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## jwalk03 (Mar 1, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Dovetailing into JIMInNC's comments, if this sales "rumor"/lie were true then that would be a material fact that ILG would need to disclose to investors.
> 
> Wish we would modify the post title to reflect that this is a sales rumor and not imply it is a fact. I dont think the ? is sufficient.



I agree the title should be modified.  So someone doesn't assume its true if they don't read through 2 pages of posts.


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## ecwinch (Mar 1, 2018)

I did assume it was true and my wife almost had to perform CPR. Luckily I read fast.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 1, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Dovetailing into JIMInNC's comments, if this sales "rumor"/lie were true then that would be a material fact that ILG would need to disclose to investors.
> 
> Wish we would modify the post title to reflect that this is a sales rumor and not imply it is a fact. I dont think the ? is sufficient.



Ask and you shall receive.


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## ecwinch (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks.... if only that worked in the rest of my life....


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## SkyBlueWaters (Mar 1, 2018)

These rumors are coming out of Orlando. Aren’t VAC corporate offices in Grande Vista? Well, is it happening or not? Maybe the synergy will save us some money.


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## Fasttr (Mar 1, 2018)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> Maybe the synergy will save us some money.


The synergies would save somebody money, but its highly unlikely to be us!!


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## l0410z (Mar 1, 2018)

bazzap said:


> There are several facebook groups for Marriott Vacation Club that are not run by Marriott Vacation Club, which are larger
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/31401268823/
> has 9,347 members



I stand corrected .... Still small.  I have a tri-state Restaurant group that I belong to that has 56K members.  On your specific group  I did a search on   Explorer Collections and or Colette Tours ... the last post was on November. Even with the "large member pool", hardly a popular discussion.    I did a search on Destination Points as it relates to Tours..... my finger started hurting from paging down.   

Are you disagreeing with my point that   "I believe there is a bigger group who know that it is not cost justified but do it anyway because they already have the points and it is a sunken cost. They are happy but their is a big difference between knowing it and still doing tours vs. not caring."


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## SkyBlueWaters (Mar 1, 2018)

Not a rumor.


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## SkyBlueWaters (Mar 1, 2018)

They (ILG) were really raking the money in. Almost $2B in sales for 2018. What’s up their sleeves this year?


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## Bucky (Mar 2, 2018)

littlestar said:


> We gave our Marriott Branson trader away during the Great Recession. When we bought another Marriott last year, I wanted a location I knew I would use if trading went away through Interval. So we bought a Grande Vista platinum 2 bedroom. Between grand kids and snow birding, I would definitely use it.



Had to laugh about the “Great Recession” part of this. We picked up both of our units on the resale markets during this same period. Was a great time to pick up units for pennies on the dollar.



l0410z said:


> Having belonged to the facebook group (55 and older) for a couple of years, i have read feedback on the tours that are 100% positive. It is not a large sample size to  number of posts for this group but great feedback.



I’ve belonged to this same Facebook group for a couple of years now and every time I’ve brought up TUG conversations I’ve received many negative responses. Some owners on there believe that only negative items about Marriott are posted on TUG! Talking about an alternative reality!!



Jayco29D said:


> Loved reading your response. A true Maximizer way of thinking. Or maybe a “Controlled Maximizer” as you said! LOL
> 
> Yes, I lean toward being a Maximizer too and need to control those tendencies because when I get too obsessed with the details of maximizing, I stress myself out. My spouse is a Satisficer. We make a good partnership. My spouse laughs at my maximizing tendencies.



I admit, I am a maximizer. But, mine evolved from 34 years of military service. On their pay scales I learned how to stretch every penny, out of need, not some compulsive disorder.


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## WBP (Mar 3, 2018)

Write J.W. Marriott, Jr at Marriott's Corporate Headquarters (10400 Fernwood Road, Bethesda, MD 208117) a letter, tell him that you attended a sales presentation at his franchised timeshare outfit (that bears his name), and what you were told by the salesperson. Ask him if he would not mind clarifying what you were told. If you hear back that what you were told is not accurate, and you remember the salesperson's name, I'd suggest filing a complaint against that  "licensee (salesperson)" for making misrepresentations (in an attempt to get you to buy a new/different/additional product) with the licensing body, the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation:

https://www.myfloridalicense.com/entercomplaint.asp?SID=

Since the Warden is not going to clean up the asylum (of these liars), it's up to the inmates to do it.


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## Steve Fatula (Mar 3, 2018)

Bucky said:


> I’ve belonged to this same Facebook group for a couple of years now and every time I’ve brought up TUG conversations I’ve received many negative responses. Some owners on there believe that only negative items about Marriott are posted on TUG! Talking about an alternative reality!!



Yeah, they should try redweek then! 99% negative. This is a breath of fresh air here!


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## l0410z (Mar 5, 2018)

Deleted


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## dannybaker (Mar 7, 2018)

We rarely exchange outside of Our Marriotts, Marriott to Marriott is normal exchange. I just looked at history of exchanging with II over the last ten years. Only trade outside a Marriott was to several Four Seasons Resorts.


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