# Diamond purchase by Hilton



## epearsall (Mar 26, 2022)

Diamond Owners take warning!
Hilton has purchase Diamond and is trying to combine the Hilton program with the 
diamond program.   Great idea, except they want you to BUY your way into the new program.
Late last year, we upgraded our diamond package to Platinum level.  We just attended an "update" and were show the new program. HGVMAX.
It all sounded great until we were told there was an upgrade fee!
Not $10,000, not $50,000 but *$128,000*.  Fee is based on size of your Diamond package.
We asked what would happened with our existing Diamond Package if we said no, and were given vague answers,
including a statement that "Hilton projects 95% of Diamond owners will upgrade to HGVMAX," leaving few "old" Diamond program members
with proportionally less support.

We were angry and upset that Hilton would so brazenly ask for massive upgrades to join the combined program.
We are not made on money, and I don't believe that 95% of Diamond owners will ante up for this HUGE upgrade.
We were also offered to pay $4000 for a two year "hold" on the oppontunity to buy into the new program.
We declined to pay anything extra, as we had already spent too much.

I would like to hear from other Diamond owners regarding this expensive Hilton upgrade program


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## chapjim (Mar 26, 2022)

Plenty of comments on the HGVC and Diamond forums.


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## Mongoose (Mar 26, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond Owners take warning!
> Hilton has purchase Diamond and is trying to combine the Hilton program with the
> diamond program.   Great idea, except they want you to BUY your way into the new program.
> Late last year, we upgraded our diamond package to Platinum level.  We just attended an "update" and were show the new program. HGVMAX.
> ...


They are simply manipulating you.  They certainly do not know what the final program will look like.  Just sit tight and wait till everything is announced.  I was a Diamond owner (through acquisition of my home resort) and sold because I was so disgusted with their sales tactics.  It sounds like you have invested tremendously in the program.  If you want answers now you should reach out to their senior leadership team not sales weasels.  Executive Leadership | Hilton Grand Vacations


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## Iggyearl (Mar 26, 2022)

I imagine that you were at a Diamond resort and you met with a Diamond salesman.  I imagine that you have nothing in writing regarding the conversion details.  Pure timeshare and pure Diamond.  Hilton would be crazy to roll out a program like this to loyal Diamond customers.  They would alienate everyone.  Per Mongoose's instruction I would pursue senior management for details on the veracity of the claims and the truthfulness of the salesman.  He should be re-educated or fired.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 26, 2022)

And you believed that sh!t?

Yes Hilton bought Diamond. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change unless you want to have access. Hilton owners can go on in the Hilton system and Diamond owners with theirs. Salesmen love to try to scare you. Stop listening to them


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## artringwald (Mar 26, 2022)

Has any existing owner gone to a presentation that wasn't full of lies about why you needed to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to take full advantage of your current ownership?


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## dougp26364 (Mar 26, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Has any existing owner gone to a presentation that wasn't full of lies about why you needed to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to take full advantage of your current ownership?



not in the 24 years we’ve owned timeshare. I’m even contemplating listening to Spinnakers lies in a couple of months, just because we haven’t heard them in over 10 years.


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## goaliedave (Mar 27, 2022)

There are plenty of similar posts if you do a search. As others have said; you can't be serious.


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## epearsall (Mar 27, 2022)

Iggyearl said:


> I imagine that you were at a Diamond resort and you met with a Diamond salesman.  I imagine that you have nothing in writing regarding the conversion details.  Pure timeshare and pure Diamond.  Hilton would be crazy to roll out a program like this to loyal Diamond customers.  They would alienate everyone.  Per Mongoose's instruction I would pursue senior management for details on the veracity of the claims and the truthfulness of the salesman.  He should be re-educated or fired.


Actually, it was at a Diamond Resort ( MYstic Dunes, Orlando) and it was a Hilton salesperson!


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## artringwald (Mar 27, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Actually, it was at a Diamond Resort ( MYstic Dunes, Orlando) and it was a Hilton salesperson!


They're all Hilton employees now.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 27, 2022)

Still sounds like a Diamond Salesperson. As rose by any other name....


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## dougp26364 (Mar 27, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Actually, it was at a Diamond Resort ( MYstic Dunes, Orlando) and it was a Hilton salesperson!



They’re all salesmen , Hilton or Diamond make no difference, and they all use the same sales technique of fear. 

You’re NOT going to lose anything. 

You MIGHT gain something.

It will probably cost something to gain something, just not $128,000 like your salesman suggested. 

We will all have to wait to see the cost to gain. What you don’t want to do right now is go jumping off bridges or fighting with shadows. I know what my limits are because I’ve owned in the DRI system and currently own in the Hilton system. Because of this, I can place a value on the merger of systems and what it’s worth to me. They’ll have a much more difficult time with me because of this knowledge. They can sell DRI to me all day, but I left DRI for the same reasons I won’t spend thousands to get back in. 

The salesmen have no leverage when you place your value on the product rather than allowing them to place theirs.

Don’t believe their lies. Don’t get upset because of their lies.


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## artringwald (Mar 27, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> They’re all salesmen , Hilton or Diamond make no difference, and they all use the same sales technique of fear.


They also use the technique of trying to make us feel stupid because we don't understand the gibberish they use to justify the purchase. I've also had them try and berate us because we're not rich enough to spend money recklessly.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 27, 2022)

artringwald said:


> They also use the technique of trying to make us feel stupid because we don't understand the gibberish they use to justify the purchase. I've also had them try and berate us because we're not rich enough to spend money recklessly.



I’ve actually had a Bluegreen salesman threaten to take me outside and “whoop my ass” before his manager got a hold of him and pulled him off the presentation. Such is the power of knowledge. I’ve learned not to call them out on their lies. While I’d love to own a piece of the company because one of their salesman loses his cool, I just don’t have the time to waste. Nod my head and repeat no gets me out faster than proving I’m more Knowles able than the average person in a presentation.


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## Mongoose (Mar 27, 2022)

artringwald said:


> They also use the technique of trying to make us feel stupid because we don't understand the gibberish they use to justify the purchase. I've also had them try and berate us because we're not rich enough to spend money recklessly.


Yes.  Or they insult you for being cheap or "wasting" your vacation time for the presentation.  Ugh.


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## WManning (Mar 27, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I’ve actually had a Bluegreen salesman threaten to take me outside and “whoop my ass” before his manager got a hold of him and pulled him off the presentation. Such is the power of knowledge. I’ve learned not to call them out on their lies. While I’d love to own a piece of the company because one of their salesman loses his cool, I just don’t have the time t9 waste. Nod my head and repeat no gets me out faster than proving I’m more Knowles able than the average person in a presentation.


I turned down a update presentation to at Worldmark Boulevard this week. I tried to tell the wrist band desk been that I attended presentations Nov, Dec, and January and all ended up as a hard sell. Never believe that it's a way to help you use your ownership and it always ends in a hard sell.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 27, 2022)

WManning said:


> I turned down a update presentation to at Worldmark Boulevard this week. I tried to tell the wrist band desk been that I attended presentations Nov, Dec, and January and all ended up as a hard sell. Never believe that it's a way to help you use your ownership and it always ends in a hard sell.



I’ve actually had a few, very few, that were more of an update with a soft sell. It’s not always a hard sell with every company. Diamond, initially, wasn’t always a hard sell, although it became that way after Diamond bought out Sunterra. Senior Marriott salesmen can recognize when they don’t have a good opportunity, you have a little conversation, soft sell and you’re out the door. More junior salesmen seem to be required to follow a track and push when they should just back off. We’ve had the same salesman with Breckenridge Grand Vacations for several years now. We go in, catch up on life events, he shows us the latest offer and we collect our $150 MF discount.

Most of the time it’s a hard sell with a bunch of lies being told, but not always


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## pedro47 (Mar 27, 2022)

Can someone name a timeshare that sold for $128,000.00.


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## WManning (Mar 27, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Can someone name a timeshare that sold for $128,000.00.


Please tell me no one ever paid that much for something that sells on the resale market for less then pennies on the dollar.


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## artringwald (Mar 27, 2022)

It must have been 10-15 years ago, but while I was at Kaanapali Beach Club I attended what I think they called a customer ownership survey. I was surprised that it wasn't a sale pitch at all. He reviewed what we currently owned and explained what our options were to enhance our ownership. It only took 10-15 minutes, and answered some of my questions. I'd do that every year if they always did it that way. DW hasn't attended a presentation with me since 2004 when we bought our first timeshare from Sunterra/Diamond/Hilton. I later discovered TUG and the next 2 purchases were resales.


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## ccwu (Mar 27, 2022)

Sounds like Diamond salesperson. I own both and HGV sales staff are more professional. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dougp26364 (Mar 27, 2022)

WManning said:


> Please tell me no one ever paid that much for something that sells on the resale market for less then pennies on the dollar.



that and more I’m afraid. A four bedroom penthouse unit fixed presidents week in Breckenridge can easily eclipse that figure.
I was looking at resale Ritz-Carlton weeks recently with price ranges from $25,000 to $255,000. Guessing that owners believed the value would increase, I’d guess that higher end range is what some of them paid for their weeks. If that’s the case I can understand why they’d be ticked off that Marriott allows us lowly MVC owners access through destination club points access into Ritz-Carlton resorts.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 27, 2022)

Some HGV Hawaian penthouses and HGV NYC Penthouses are going for $128k+


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## NiteMaire (Mar 28, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Can someone name a timeshare that sold for $128,000.00.


I can't; however, based on some past advertisements I've seen (not on TUG), it wouldn't surprise me if some Vidanta units sold for 2-3 times that number.


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## Mongoose (Mar 28, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Can someone name a timeshare that sold for $128,000.00.


I've seem some Wyndham's people are trying to dump with 1M+ points per year. I'm sure those are in that category.  Here is 100,000 Marriott points for $3m!!! LOL... Marriott's Barony Beach Club Timeshare for Sale - $3,000,000 (sellmytimesharenow.com)


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## ccwu (Mar 28, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Some HGV Hawaian penthouses and HGV NYC Penthouses are going for $128k+



We got our NYC Residence Club one bedroom penthouse unit in 6/2017 pre construction price with Elite premier discount for $131,000. (16,800 bHC points). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## applepie (Jun 2, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond Owners take warning!
> Hilton has purchase Diamond and is trying to combine the Hilton program with the
> diamond program.   Great idea, except they want you to BUY your way into the new program.
> Late last year, we upgraded our diamond package to Platinum level.  We just attended an "update" and were show the new program. HGVMAX.
> ...


 
I am gold.  I have a deeded week i brought into the club and points in the diamond system.  I am on a diamond dream holiday right now and went to an owner update.  They shared how you could exchange points to use hilton hotels.  The salesman didn't know math very well.  I had to keep adjusting numbers.  They showed tons of properties on hgv max for low points.  They hit me up for 10,000 points per contract to upgrade.  That would be $128k.  That was the rule.  Then they said they realized they could offer me 6,000 points as an existing owner for $30k.  I kept saying no.  Then they brought a hospitality guy who gave me 11,200 points to use over 18 months and to lock my option open to buy 3,000 point minimum at $4 a point.  I don't fully understand how it all works.


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## applepie (Jun 2, 2022)

applepie said:


> I am gold.  I have a deeded week i brought into the club and points in the diamond system.  I am on a diamond dream holiday right now and went to an owner update.  They shared how you could exchange points to use hilton hotels.  The salesman didn't know math very well.  I had to keep adjusting numbers.  They showed tons of properties on hgv max for low points.  They hit me up for 10,000 points per contract to upgrade.  That would be $128k.  That was the rule.  Then they said they realized they could offer me 6,000 points as an existing owner for $30k.  I kept saying no.  Then they brought a hospitality guy who gave me 11,200 points to use over 18 months and to lock my option open to buy 3,000 point minimum at $4 a point.  I don't fully understand how it all works.


Forgot to mention that i paid $1800 for the points.  Seems like the cost for a 2 bedroom.  That goes toward purchase cost if i buy in.  The hgv max points ride on top of the dri points.  I dont fully get it.


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## goaliedave (Jun 3, 2022)

artringwald said:


> Has any existing owner gone to a presentation that wasn't full of lies about why you needed to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to take full advantage of your current ownership?


Me. I've learned from sales managers alot of the tricks to double or triple points usage like using insurance strategically, club solo, EOLs.


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## tleonard (Jun 3, 2022)

applepie said:


> I am gold.  I have a deeded week i brought into the club and points in the diamond system.  I am on a diamond dream holiday right now and went to an owner update.  They shared how you could exchange points to use hilton hotels.  The salesman didn't know math very well.  I had to keep adjusting numbers.  They showed tons of properties on hgv max for low points.  They hit me up for 10,000 points per contract to upgrade.  That would be $128k.  That was the rule.  Then they said they realized they could offer me 6,000 points as an existing owner for $30k.  I kept saying no.  Then they brought a hospitality guy who gave me 11,200 points to use over 18 months and to lock my option open to buy 3,000 point minimum at $4 a point.  I don't fully understand how it all works.


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## tleonard (Jun 3, 2022)

I am a platinum Diamond owner. I own points in the US Collection. I went to the update hoping to hear how HGVC would take back my Diamond points that I was told they would last summer 2021.  Of course not true.  I also wanted to see what would happen to Diamond now that Diamond no longer ixists. Not sure I received a real clear answer. They probably don't know. They did keep saying that as more Diamond members put their points in HGVC there would be less availability for my points. I didn't want to spend more on vacation than I do  so I said no "10,000 HGVC points" for $3.75  a point which is probably a good deel if I needed more travel opportunities - I don't. They push that the value is so much higher with HGVC and if you your vacationing style upper end HGVC is probably better, it's just  not me.  Kohl's Ranch with it running creek in the back yard is more my style.  If anyone has ideas on how to just get out of Diamond/HGVC let me know.  My traveling days are done.


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## applepie (Jun 5, 2022)

tleonard said:


> I am a platinum Diamond owner. I own points in the US Collection. I went to the update hoping to hear how HGVC would take back my Diamond points that I was told they would last summer 2021.  Of course not true.  I also wanted to see what would happen to Diamond now that Diamond no longer ixists. Not sure I received a real clear answer. They probably don't know. They did keep saying that as more Diamond members put their points in HGVC there would be less availability for my points. I didn't want to spend more on vacation than I do  so I said no "10,000 HGVC points" for $3.75  a point which is probably a good deel if I needed more travel opportunities - I don't. They push that the value is so much higher with HGVC and if you your vacationing style upper end HGVC is probably better, it's just  not me.  Kohl's Ranch with it running creek in the back yard is more my style.  If anyone has ideas on how to just get out of Diamond/HGVC let me know.  My traveling days are done.



Can you just transition?  They were liars to me.  They told me transitions goes away.  They didn't seem very informed.


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## applepie (Jun 5, 2022)

applepie said:


> Can you just transition?  They were liars to me.  They told me transitions goes away.  They didn't seem very informed.


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## ccwu (Jun 7, 2022)

I am platinum member in DRI system with 54,000 points (13,000 US collection and 41,000 Hawaii collection) I just upgraded to HGV max in St Maarten. Because I am also elite premier in HGV with holding of HGV club point and Hilton Club points, the sales lady got approval from corporate to sell me 2500 US collection @ $4.15 per point to upgrade to hgv. With the upgrade, I am going to pay annual club fee of $283 (instead a US collection club due and a Hawaii collection club due.) this will save over $100 for me. With new HGV max Premier+, I will have annual Lyft credit $250 to combine to my current HGVC Lyft credit (for Elite premier) to make it $500 a year. I guess it will cover from transportation from airport to both Hilton and Diamond resort. The other benefits were in website. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mongoose (Jun 7, 2022)

ccwu said:


> I am platinum member in DRI system with 54,000 points (13,000 US collection and 41,000 Hawaii collection) I just upgraded to HGV max in St Maarten. Because I am also elite premier in HGV with holding of HGV club point and Hilton Club points, the sales lady got approval from corporate to sell me 2500 US collection @ $4.15 per point to upgrade to hgv. With the upgrade, I am going to pay annual club fee of $283 (instead a US collection club due and a Hawaii collection club due.) this will save over $100 for me. With new HGV max Premier+, I will have annual Lyft credit $250 to combine to my current HGVC Lyft credit (for Elite premier) to make it $500 a year. I guess it will cover from transportation from airport to both Hilton and Diamond resort. The other benefits were in website.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope you did this because you love the product and timesharing and not to save potentially $500 per year.  That is basically a rounding error when taking into account the retail cost of the program and MFs on 54k points.  Sorry to be a downer, I hope this works well for you.


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## TJALB (Aug 21, 2022)

artringwald said:


> They're all Hilton employees now.


Their still Diamond employees but, now working for Hilton. They still have the snake sales tactics. My guess is that these old DRI sales weasels will eventually be weeded out if they don’t change their sales tactics. I would highly suggest that you find an update in your area that is staffed by Hilton employees not the original Diamond snakes.


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## Jimkor (Sep 4, 2022)

epearsall said:


> Diamond Owners take warning!
> Hilton has purchase Diamond and is trying to combine the Hilton program with the
> diamond program.   Great idea, except they want you to BUY your way into the new program.
> Late last year, we upgraded our diamond package to Platinum level.  We just attended an "update" and were show the new program. HGVMAX.
> ...


We were there for a week May14, 2022 to May 21, 2022 using Raintree Vacation points. Got asssigned the WORST unit B1. It was below road level as far from ocean and pool as possible. Shame on them, NEVER AGAIN!


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## pedro47 (Sep 4, 2022)

Jimkor said:


> We were there for a week May14, 2022 to May 21, 2022 using Raintree Vacation points. Got asssigned the WORST unit B1. It was below road level as far from ocean and pool as possible. Shame on them, NEVER AGAIN!


Can you named the DRI Resort ?

Can you describe what a unit B1 is like? Is it a studio or 1 bedroom unit ?


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## Jimkor (Sep 4, 2022)

It was in Kona Hawaii. It was one bedroom. View from bedroom was foilage and earteh embankment. Terrible room.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 4, 2022)

Jimkor said:


> We were there for a week May14, 2022 to May 21, 2022 using Raintree Vacation points. Got asssigned the WORST unit B1. It was below road level as far from ocean and pool as possible. Shame on them, NEVER AGAIN!





Jimkor said:


> It was in Kona Hawaii. It was one bedroom. View from bedroom was foilage and earteh embankment. Terrible room.


Kona Reef? 

I'm not sure what this has to do with Diamond.  Sounds like you went there as a Raintree owner, staying in one of the Kona Reef units that is owned by Raintree.  So how does Diamond fit into your experience? Seems as though your gripe is with Raintree.


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## Jimkor (Sep 4, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Kona Reef?
> 
> I'm not sure what this has to do with Diamond.  Sounds like you went there as a Raintree owner, staying in one of the Kona Reef units that is owned by Raintree.  So how does Diamond fit into your experience? Seems as though your gripe is with Raintree.


Raintree DID NOT make the unit assignment. Diamond did when we got there. I have no gripe with Diamond, I agree Raintree should better manage the units they offer with any alliance.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 4, 2022)

Jimkor said:


> Raintree DID NOT make the unit assignment. Diamond did when we got there. I have no gripe with Diamond, I agree Raintree should better manage the units they offer with any alliance.


That's confusing.  We've stayed at Kona Reef using Raintree points, and the whole process, including room assignment, was handled by Raintree representatives on site. I'm very sure that Diamond has no involvement or activity at Kona Reef.  How they might have been involved in your situation is baffling.

Even so, since you are a Raintree owner staying at KR using Raintree points, your gripe is properly with Raintree. You should ask Raintree why they handed you off to Diamond, who have no involvement at the resort.


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## Jimkor (Sep 4, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> That's confusing.  We've stayed at Kona Reef using Raintree points, and the whole process, including room assignment, was handled by Raintree representatives on site. I'm very sure that Diamond has no involvement or activity at Kona Reef.  How they might have been involved in your situation is baffling.
> 
> Even so, since you are a Raintree owner staying at KR using Raintree points, your gripe is properly with Raintree. You should ask Raintree why they handed you off to Diamond, who have no involvement at the resort.


I will. Thank you for the information. Consider the topic closed.


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## pedro47 (Sep 4, 2022)

Deleted


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## pedro47 (Sep 4, 2022)

I feel this poster (jimkor) blamed Diamond and the blame is on Raintree. 
The poster should have asked the Raintree representative for a better villa location; because they are a Raintree owner. IMHO


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## winger (Sep 18, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> not in the 24 years we’ve owned timeshare. I’m even contemplating listening to Spinnakers lies in a couple of months, just because we haven’t heard them in over 10 years.


Get your steak dinner money. That's why we go


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## goaliedave (Sep 18, 2022)

ccwu said:


> I am platinum member in DRI system with 54,000 points (13,000 US collection and 41,000 Hawaii collection) I just upgraded to HGV max in St Maarten. Because I am also elite premier in HGV with holding of HGV club point and Hilton Club points, the sales lady got approval from corporate to sell me 2500 US collection @ $4.15 per point to upgrade to hgv. With the upgrade, I am going to pay annual club fee of $283 (instead a US collection club due and a Hawaii collection club due.) this will save over $100 for me. With new HGV max Premier+, I will have annual Lyft credit $250 to combine to my current HGVC Lyft credit (for Elite premier) to make it $500 a year. I guess it will cover from transportation from airport to both Hilton and Diamond resort. The other benefits were in website.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"approval from corporate ... $4.15" so sad to read this.


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## Duh (Sep 19, 2022)

goaliedave said:


> "approval from corporate ... $4.15" so sad to read this.



$3.85 to $4.15 has been the norm for offers to Diamond owners. Supposedly that will change in Oct goin to minimum $8 per point. I will laugh even harder then while saying no.


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## mandl (Sep 21, 2022)

Would you please share what your other benefits are to being in the Max? For some reason nobody posts this. Is Hilton requiring you to keep this quiet?


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## pedro47 (Sep 21, 2022)

mandl said:


> Would you please share what your other benefits are to being in the Max? For some reason nobody posts this. Is Hilton requiring you to keep this quiet?


Excellent question.


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## Duh (Sep 25, 2022)

mandl said:


> Would you please share what your other benefits are to being in the Max? For some reason nobody posts this. Is Hilton requiring you to keep this quiet?



IMO, the "benefits" from joining Max are pretty worthless. Yes, you get to go to a Hilton resort (with a 6 month booking window) and you get the ability to transfer your points to HH (HiltonHonors). There is an annual Lyft credit and an in-resort food credit based on your status. That being said, with HH, you are paying 20 cents per Max point in maint fees and only getting 8 cents per point in value from your HH account so for every point you transfer, it's like throwing 12 cents of your money right out of the window of a moving car. You also lose the ability to upgrade your unit at time of booking so you can't plan a trip with friends or family and magically hope you get the next sized unit at check in. And you have to pay (buy more points) for this downgrade. Not worth it, IMO.


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## winger (Sep 25, 2022)

So, is there anything worth the upgrade?


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## pedro47 (Sep 25, 2022)

I feel , I have learned that there are some excellent Hilton timeshare resorts in Hawaii and New Yotk


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## winger (Sep 25, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> I feel , I have learned that there are some excellent Hilton timeshare resorts in Hawaii and New Yotk


In this case, weigh the upgrades and related ongoing costs vs hours many times you arts find to the nice Hawaii and NY places


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## Duh (Sep 25, 2022)

winger said:


> So, is there anything worth the upgrade?



IMO, no.


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## mandl (Sep 26, 2022)

So I’m really confused now. What I’m taking away from this is Diamond owner’s aren’t being offered anything great enough to jump in, but for some reason HGVC owners have been enticed enough to toss in more money to have access, which seems so stupid when inventory will be gobbled up by Diamond owners with priority. What could HGVC be promising?!
Prestige? Thinking not too smart.
Buy resale if there’s a resort you want to frequent.


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## Duh (Sep 26, 2022)

mandl said:


> So I’m really confused now. What I’m taking away from this is Diamond owner’s aren’t being offered anything great enough to jump in, but for some reason HGVC owners have been enticed enough to toss in more money to have access, which seems so stupid when inventory will be gobbled up by Diamond owners with priority. What could HGVC be promising?!
> Prestige? Thinking not too smart.
> Buy resale if there’s a resort you want to frequent.



Diamond owners are being offered the chance to utilize Hilton resorts and sales folk are really playing up the HH access. Many sales meetings also tell owners that they will save greatly (like 25%) on their maint fees is they switch. And of course you have those who employ the scare tactics "you won't be able to access a previous Diamond resort if you don't switch". Most of this is hogwash. As for the flip side, Hilton owners will have access to many new locations and many of the Diamond resort are accessible at the 6 month point, depending on the time of year that one wants to go. And comparatively, a Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000 to get access to Diamond whereas most Diamond owners are being asked to pony up $20,000 or more for access to the Hilton resorts and HH.


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## CanuckTravlr (Sep 26, 2022)

mandl said:


> So I’m really confused now. What I’m taking away from this is Diamond owner’s aren’t being offered anything great enough to jump in, but for some reason HGVC owners have been enticed enough to toss in more money to have access, which seems so stupid when inventory will be gobbled up by Diamond owners with priority. What could HGVC be promising?!
> Prestige? Thinking not too smart.
> Buy resale if there’s a resort you want to frequent.



As an HGVC owner, I'm not sure where you have gotten the impression that HGVC owners have been enticed enough to toss in more money to participate in HGV Max, any more than former Diamond owners.  That is certainly not my personal feeling, nor my impression from reading the various posts in both this forum and the HGVC forum.

While there may be the occasional HGVC member that has decided to act on HGV Max, for whatever personal reason, the majority (including myself) are still on the fence.  Until the system is actually up and running and we have a lot more confirmed details, other than the "promises" from salespeople at "updates", the consensus seems to be that most of us are not yet convinced.  Just my two cents!


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## mandl (Sep 26, 2022)

Duh said:


> Diamond owners are being offered the chance to utilize Hilton resorts and sales folk are really playing up the HH access. Many sales meetings also tell owners that they will save greatly (like 25%) on their maint fees is they switch. And of course you have those who employ the scare tactics "you won't be able to access a previous Diamond resort if you don't switch". Most of this is hogwash. As for the flip side, Hilton owners will have access to many new locations and many of the Diamond resort are accessible at the 6 month point, depending on the time of year that one wants to go. And comparatively, a Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000 to get access to Diamond whereas most Diamond owners are being asked to pony up $20,000 or more for access to the Hilton resorts and HH.



How do you know the Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000?  Do you know this for a fact?



CanuckTravlr said:


> As an HGVC owner, I'm not sure where you have gotten the impression that HGVC owners have been enticed enough to toss in more money to participate in HGV Max, any more than former Diamond owners.  That is certainly not my personal feeling, nor my impression from reading the various posts in both this forum and the HGVC forum.
> 
> While there may be the occasional HGVC member that has decided to act on HGV Max, for whatever personal reason, the majority (including myself) are still on the fence.  Until the system is actually up and running and we have a lot more confirmed details, other than the "promises" from salespeople at "updates", the consensus seems to be that most of us are not yet convinced.  Just my two cents!


The reason I have this impression is because I just returned from two weeks at Kings Land.  Almost every owner I spoke with opted for the Max.  But......they were a bit tight lipped on figures, and what exactly they were promised.  I don't think they even knew.  They all seem to say the same thing.  "It would be available in October".......


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## dayooper (Sep 26, 2022)

mandl said:


> The reason I have this impression is because I just returned from two weeks at Kings Land.  Almost every owner I spoke with opted for the Max.  But......they were a bit tight lipped on figures, and what exactly they were promised.  I don't think they even knew.  They all seem to say the same thing.  "It would be available in October".......



Eh, when we go, there are always owners that trust what the salesperson says and upgrades. They were buying before Max and they will continue buying after Max. Some people just trust what they say. 

Many I spoke to at Ocean Oak this summer did not buy and were quite put off by the price. Then again, most people that are at Ocean Oak own there and won't give those weeks up so that may be the reason why.


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## Duh (Sep 27, 2022)

mandl said:


> How do you know the Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000?  Do you know this for a fact?
> 
> 
> The reason I have this impression is because I just returned from two weeks at Kings Land.  Almost every owner I spoke with opted for the Max.  But......they were a bit tight lipped on figures, and what exactly they were promised.  I don't think they even knew.  They all seem to say the same thing.  "It would be available in October".......



Yes, I do. It's in the paperwork sent out to Hilton and Diamond owners. Diamond owners have to make another points purchase. Some as low as $16,000 for 4,000 points, other have been told as high as $100,000 for 10,000 points. But ALL Hilton owners do not have to make an actual purchase (requiring more in maint fees annually). They just have to pay the $7,000 "membership" fee to get into Max. It's BS IMO but it is what it is.


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## Duh (Sep 27, 2022)

mandl said:


> How do you know the Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000?  Do you know this for a fact?
> 
> 
> The reason I have this impression is because I just returned from two weeks at Kings Land.  Almost every owner I spoke with opted for the Max.  But......they were a bit tight lipped on figures, and what exactly they were promised.  I don't think they even knew.  They all seem to say the same thing.  "It would be available in October".......



Please read iii. This is from the HGVClub Disclosure Statement effective 01 June 2022.

Members eligible to receive HGV Max benefits are referred to as “HGV Max Members”. Persons may become HGV Max members as described below:

i. Initial Membership - Persons who purchase an ownership interest at a Hilton Grand Vacations resort from an HGV Max authorized sales center and join Hilton Grand Vacations Club after launch of HGV Max shall automatically receive HGV Max benefits. 

ii. Additional Purchase – Persons who were Hilton Grand Vacations Club Members prior to the launch of HGV Max and upgrade their Hilton Grand Vacations ownership interest or otherwise purchase an additional Hilton Grand Vacations ownership interest after the launch shall automatically receive HGV Max benefits. 

iii. Ala Carte Membership. Other Members may have the option to acquire HGV Max benefits by paying a one-time HGV Max initiation fee. 

Members who obtain HGV Max benefits by means of an additional purchase or adds an ala carte membership as described in items ii and iii above, shall be grandfathered into certain Club benefits and programs and may be referred to as “HGV Max Legacy Members”. 

Members who do not qualify for HGV Max benefits may be referred to as “HGVClub Legacy Members” HGV Max Members, HGV Max Legacy Members, HGVClub Legacy Members are all “Members”.


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## Duh (Sep 27, 2022)

mandl said:


> How do you know the Hilton owner only has to pay $7,000?  Do you know this for a fact?
> 
> 
> The reason I have this impression is because I just returned from two weeks at Kings Land.  Almost every owner I spoke with opted for the Max.  But......they were a bit tight lipped on figures, and what exactly they were promised.  I don't think they even knew.  They all seem to say the same thing.  "It would be available in October".......



And this pic shows the $7,000 HGV Max Initiation Fee that HGVC owners have to pay to get into HGV Max and have access to the Diamond resorts. Any other questions?


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## mandl (Sep 27, 2022)

I was aware of your post #2, but not sure that it still holds true.  As for the fee schedule, thank you for posting it!!
Wow!  Why in the world would anyone buy in to this?  Must read the fine print as usual with Hilton.  Amounts may be increased 
or decreased.........I wish everyone luck who buys into this.  I know it's not for us.  Quite happy with our timeshares and purchases.


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## magmue (Sep 27, 2022)

> iii. Ala Carte Membership. Other Members *may* have the option to acquire HGV Max benefits by paying a one-time HGV Max initiation fee.


Emphasis on the word "May". It's one of those scenarios where one hand doesn't seem to know what the other hand is doing. I have owned HGVC for the several years, and picked up a deeded resale week for (formerly DRI, now HVC) Point at Poipu. I keep up with the Hilton forum, and IIRC, the HGVC timeshare sales weasels have acted quite confused when asked during "updates" about the ala carte $7,000 option. The general impression is that Hilton is focused on pitching Max as part of an upgrade for now, and will wait to roll out the ala carte option for now.

IMO, it's no bargain based on how the program is being pitched.


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## pedro47 (Sep 27, 2022)

Duh said:


> And this pic shows the $7,000 HGV Max Initiation Fee that HGVC owners have to pay to get into HGV Max and have access to the Diamond resorts. Any other questions?
> 
> View attachment 65661


Thanks for sharing this chart.


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## Duh (Sep 28, 2022)

mandl said:


> I was aware of your post #2, but not sure that it still holds true.  As for the fee schedule, thank you for posting it!!
> Wow!  Why in the world would anyone buy in to this?  Must read the fine print as usual with Hilton.  Amounts may be increased
> or decreased.........I wish everyone luck who buys into this.  I know it's not for us.  Quite happy with our timeshares and purchases.



If you don't believe it still holds true, what brought you to that belief?

Diamond owners buy in for a number of reasons. Some want access to Hilton resorts and HH. Most, from the stories I've heard are mostly from believing the fear and hype. I don't think Hilton owners get pushed from the fear side but to have access to 90 new resorts for $7k? Not much of an investment for them for so many new place and resorts to go to.


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## mandl (Sep 28, 2022)

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and opinions on this subject Duh.  Curious, do you own with Hilton and Diamond?  And under your log in name it comes up as “Guest”. Are you a TUG member?


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## Duh (Sep 28, 2022)

mandl said:


> I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and opinions on this subject Duh.  Curious, do you own with Hilton and Diamond?  And under your log in name it comes up as “Guest”. Are you a TUG member?



No, I am not a TUG paying member (hence the Guest tag instead of TUG Member tag). I have owned for almost 34 years now starting at Powhatan Plantation in 1989 and became a Diamond owner 2 days after they purchased Sunterra (which owned Powhatan Plantation at the time) in 2007. I have not and will not buy into HVC Max as to me, it seems I am paying money to downgrade my benefits (biggest loss is the ability to upgrade at time of booking). I am a Platinum owner with Diamond.


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## mandl (Sep 28, 2022)

I respect your honesty. Thank you.


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## magmue (Sep 28, 2022)

> I am not a TUG paying member (hence the Guest tag instead of TUG Member tag)


Sometimes guests have "joined" by paying the $15/year membership fee, but have not done the conversion that changes their membership status in the forums from Guest to Member.


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## mandl (Sep 28, 2022)

Hmmmm.  I've been a tug member since at least 2003, and have been trying to have TUG update our status.  They say that membership on the forums is separate.  I say they are the same. Sounds the same to me from what you are saying.


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## mandl (Sep 28, 2022)

It's the same log in. And I've been paying dues from day one.


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## magmue (Sep 28, 2022)

I have had some confusion about this as well. The forum has my "member since" date right, I think, but somehow I have two different passwords - one for the forums and one for the marketplace & reviews. I didn't figure it out until after talking to admin a couple months ago after having log-in problems. I thought I should have the same password for both. Turns out they are somehow separate. Perhaps @TUGBrian can shed some light?


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## TUGBrian (Sep 29, 2022)

there is no actual link between the join date on the forums, and when you first found or visited TUG.  That date is nothing more than when the account you use to log into the forums was created on the forums.  it is not a date that can be modified or changed within the forum software.

and we imported all the accounts from the PREVIOUS forum into this one when we changed to xenforo however all those registration dates still only show 2006 ish or so as the very earliest "join date" anyone could possibly have despite there being plenty of members who were here long before 2006!


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## goaliedave (Oct 1, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> That's confusing.  We've stayed at Kona Reef using Raintree points, and the whole process, including room assignment, was handled by Raintree representatives on site. I'm very sure that Diamond has no involvement or activity at Kona Reef.  How they might have been involved in your situation is baffling.
> 
> Even so, since you are a Raintree owner staying at KR using Raintree points, your gripe is properly with Raintree. You should ask Raintree why they handed you off to Diamond, who have no involvement at the resort.


My experience is the same as yours staying at Kona Reef as a Raintree owner. Staff there were excellent to me, great room, a special favour, much impressed. I used to stay down the road at Diamond but it's a toss up now.


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