# should I buy from Hilton Direct?



## tjtatt (Nov 5, 2008)

I have a opportunity to buy 5000 points (1 week) at full price at Hilton vacation Seaworld in Orlando.  They are willing to give us 28000 bonus points as incentive.  we are considering it.  Has anyone else had experience with this type of deal and do you think it is a good deal?


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## DEROS (Nov 5, 2008)

*Resell*

The majority of the people on Tug would suggest to purchase resale.  The amount of money you will save will out way the 28000 bonus points.

Check out out some of the resell site like http://www.timeshareresalepros.com/ which I bought my timeshare from.  It saved me close to 50% off developers cost.  This translated to about $25000.


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## Talent312 (Nov 5, 2008)

The money you will save buying resale will greatly _out weigh_ the 28000 points.  Bonus  points simply don't carry much weight.  Their usefulness is limited, but they'll disappear and once they're gone... you're left with a TS for which you still paid too much.  Check out the prices for similar units on ebay, redweek, and other sources of TS resales, and you'll see what we mean.


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## capjak (Nov 5, 2008)

tjtatt said:


> I have a opportunity to buy 5000 points (1 week) at full price at Hilton vacation Seaworld in Orlando.  They are willing to give us 28000 bonus points as incentive.  we are considering it.  Has anyone else had experience with this type of deal and do you think it is a good deal?



How much $$


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## Zac495 (Nov 6, 2008)

You can get 5000 pts on the resale market for about 6500 right now. Call Seth Nock. He's highly respected here on TUG and deals with Hilton very regularly. He also has the best prices.


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## yumdrey (Nov 6, 2008)

Oh no...
Bonus point is limited for use like above tugger said. It doesn't have worth to pay the full price. Buy resale, you will save thousands.


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## kool_kat (Nov 6, 2008)

I made the mistake of buying from the developer in September.  I paid $12,000 for an EOY 3400 points at the Las Vegas Hilton on the Strip. It was $18,000 if I wanted every year.  They also gave me a ton of bonus points that would have equated to airline tickets for two.  I was planning on using them to go to Hawaii and thought they would equate to 4-5 weeks there.  Got home and realized they couldn't be used to book like normal points.  Luckily, I found Tug's and rescinded in time.  Ended up buying an every year 5000 points at the Flamingo for 6300.  Airline for 2 to Hawaii is about $1,600 - 2,000.  I saved 6,000 plus got more points and every year use.  Made me a quick believer in the resale market.


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## ajo1956 (Nov 6, 2008)

*Resale*



DEROS said:


> The majority of the people on Tug would suggest to purchase resale.  The amount of money you will save will out way the 28000 bonus points.
> 
> Check out out some of the resell site like http://www.timeshareresalepros.com/ which I bought my timeshare from.  It saved me close to 50% off developers cost.  This translated to about $25000.



I purchased resale.  The main problem i have is, if we keep telling everyone
else to purchase resale there will be none left to purchase in the future.

The sales people for HGVC have a living to make too.


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## UWSurfer (Nov 6, 2008)

ajo1956 said:


> I purchased resale.  The main problem i have is, if we keep telling everyone
> else to purchase resale there will be none left to purchase in the future.
> 
> The sales people for HGVC have a living to make too.



I wouldn't worry too much...THEY are actively bringing people through and making sales.   We are just sitting here getting an occasional person who finds us.    We probably see 1% or so of those who have recently purchased.


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## Talent312 (Nov 6, 2008)

ajo1956 said:


> I purchased resale.  The main problem i have is, if we keep telling everyone
> else to purchase resale there will be none left to purchase in the future.
> The sales people for HGVC have a living to make too.



They'll do okay 'cuz Hilton will keep building 'em anyway (eventually, even in places other than Orlando, Vegas & Hawaii) and as its been said, "There's a sucker born every minute."


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## sml2181 (Nov 6, 2008)

Talent312 said:


> They'll do okay 'cuz Hilton will keep building 'em anyway (eventually, even in places other than Orlando, Vegas & Hawaii) and as its been said, "There's a sucker born every minute."



    Well, I guess that would apply to me...

I bought from Hilton after I found TUG. Received lots of bonus points which were and still are worth it - to us. They were not the reason we purchased from Hilton, but they did help to get us over the line.  I converted them to HH points and I have used them and still use them at some more expensive hotels. 

28000 Bonus points convert to 700K HH points. Depending on where you travel to, it may or may not be worth it. I have only used them twice in the US  - 1 time when we "had to" stay at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC and the cheapest rates were over 600$ and 1 time at the Conrad Chicago, when the lowest rates were 650$ for our specific dates. All other stays were in other countries at hotels with higher "lowest" rates.  

I guess what I am trying to say is that unless you would and could use your bonus points at specific hotels, it may or may not be of any value. (Example: The Conrad Maldives is wonderful - however, you still have to get there and it is still a not a very cheap hotel to put it mildly and not everybody I know would want to travel to the Maldives. However, some people wish they could go there at least once  - and well, then the points may be of great value to you.) Converting to AA vouchers would not be a good reason to me. Using them for RCI stays - only if you can use them at a few specific hard to find resorts-then maybe. If you would use them for RCI stays, you have 4 years to use them and you would get almost 6 weeks in a 2 bedroom unit during high season. But you can only use them within the 4 years and of course exchange fees do apply. To me the only value was within the HH system - 2 exceptions: a European resort in RCI which does cost over 1300 Euro per unit per night during summer, and another European resort which would have costed 900 Euro per night during the week we were there. 

I do agree that you should strongly consider a resale week for the number of points you are looking for. Not because I regret buying from Hilton, but because it is all about finding the best deal to you. In our case we are still happy we bought from Hilton but I can easily see that it may be worthless to others.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 6, 2008)

For a long time, the resale prices of the Orlando & LV pts were pretty stable. 

Platinum pts sold for about $2.00/pt
Gold points sold for about $1.50 /pt

*This is no longer true!!*

The price for pts has gone down significantly in the past 4-6 months. 

I'd guess that you can easily find Plat pts for $1.50 -$1.60 ( a Tugger got some 2 months ago for $1.45 )
And I'd guess that you can get gold pts for $1.25/pt or less. 

This makes buying resale rather than from the developer much more attractive.


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## Seth Nock (Nov 16, 2008)

Hi Bill,
     Hilton Platinum pricing has not fallen that much.  The platinum pricing you are referring to was obtained from a non - licensed "brokerage company" who was obtaining "rights to sell" people's units after scaring the owners into thinking that these were liabilities that they are giving to their children.  They then use 1 particular closing company that gave exaggerated right of first refusal documents and allegedly forged signatures on documents. They are currently being investigated by Hilton's lawyers and legal action is being considered. Pricing for 7000 point units briefly hit a low of $10,000 for Flamingo and then quickly shot up.  Currently, 7000 point units at the Vegas and Orlando properties are selling for about $12,000 - $15,000; 5000 point units $5,700 - $6,900.  You might find it for a drop less, but they are likely to be bought back.  I have had about 30 contracts bought back in the past 90 days. 






Bill4728 said:


> For a long time, the resale prices of the Orlando & LV pts were pretty stable.
> 
> Platinum pts sold for about $2.00/pt
> Gold points sold for about $1.50 /pt
> ...


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## Blues (Nov 17, 2008)

Seth Nock said:


> Hi Bill,
> Hilton Platinum pricing has not fallen that much.  The platinum pricing you are referring to was obtained from a non - licensed "brokerage company" who was obtaining "rights to sell" people's units after scaring the owners into thinking that these were liabilities that they are giving to their children.  They then use 1 particular closing company that gave exaggerated right of first refusal documents and allegedly forged signatures on documents. They are currently being investigated by Hilton's lawyers and legal action is being considered. Pricing for 7000 point units briefly hit a low of $10,000 for Flamingo and then quickly shot up.  Currently, 7000 point units at the Vegas and Orlando properties are selling for about $12,000 - $15,000; 5000 point units $5,700 - $6,900.  You might find it for a drop less, but they are likely to be bought back.  I have had about 30 contracts bought back in the past 90 days.



Hi Seth,

I have a lot of respect for you, as you've helped many TUGgers and by all accounts you're a fair and reasonable person.  Although I'm sure you don't remember it, I even had a phone conversation with you years ago, and you were very helpful.

That said, I can't let your statements above go unchallenged.  *I* am the TUGger who got 7000 platinum points (2BR platinum Flamingo) for $1.40 per point on eBay (not $1.45).  The actual price was $9805, plus $350 closing costs to Timeshare Transfer Inc, plus the HGVC transfer fee of $250.

Note that the transfer agent was Timeshare Transfer Inc, an escrow agent that's well respected and recommended by TUGgers.  The eBay seller added no fees for himself, just the TTI closing fee and the HGVC fee, both mandatory.  The closing went without a hitch.  Neither the seller nor the TTI requested any funds whatsoever until TTI got the Estoppel letter from HGVC and the seller got a signed deed.  Closing was completed within a few weeks after those conditions were met and I sent the funds.  There was *no* ROFR, being a Flamingo week.  It was a very clean deal.

Indeed, the one surprise that I *did* get was a pleasant one.  Although the listing said usage and fees started in 2009, I got 7000 2008 points in addition, and was not charged 2008 MFs.

That said, I've watched eBay since then, and found only one or two similar deals, and they were around the same time as my $1.40/pt deal.  Nothing like that in the last several months.  So you may be right that prices have reestablished themselves.  Still, I don't think it fair or proper that you mischaracterize the deal that I found.

-Bob H.


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## pianodinosaur (Nov 17, 2008)

*Hi Seth*

I purchased all my points from HGVC direct prior to my joining TUG.  Hilton has been extremely honest and I am very pleased with my purchases.  If the time comes that I want to purchase additional points from Hilton, or try Marriott or Hyatt, I will use your services.  Everyone on TUG who has worked with you says your the man.


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## Seth Nock (Nov 17, 2008)

Blues said:


> Hi Seth,
> 
> I have a lot of respect for you, as you've helped many TUGgers and by all accounts you're a fair and reasonable person.  Although I'm sure you don't remember it, I even had a phone conversation with you years ago, and you were very helpful.
> 
> ...



Hi Bob,
    That was not the reseller.  There were atleast 3 other sales by a different reseller with fraudulent signatures and exaggerated right of first refusals.  A few of the TUGers know the details, as there were attempting to buy them.  Those sales have been forwarded to Hiltons Legal department. There was a very short period of time that units sold for $10,000.  I made 2 sales at the Flamingo for that price, about the same time that you bought your unit.   Most of the unit with right of first refusal that I had attempted to sell for $11,000 or less got bought back.


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## Seth Nock (Nov 17, 2008)

pianodinosaur said:


> I purchased all my points from HGVC direct prior to my joining TUG.  Hilton has been extremely honest and I am very pleased with my purchases.  If the time comes that I want to purchase additional points from Hilton, or try Marriott or Hyatt, I will use your services.  Everyone on TUG who has worked with you says your the man.



Thank you.  I hope you enjoy the Hilton.


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## Blues (Nov 18, 2008)

Here's a 5000 point Seaworld on eBay for a "buy it now" price of $4995.


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## tombo (Nov 18, 2008)

Don't buy from any developer, only buy resale, especially at today's bargain prices. In this economy the bottom price for timeshares has not been reached. Whatever the lowest price you have seen so far, you will see prices drop a lot more before they recover ( that is "if" they ever recover). The developers can't sell because buyers are scared of losing their jobs, broke, not traveling to locations where the developers have sales offices, and they can't sell them because no one will finance them. The developers have more inventory than they want on their books. Nothing has normalized with prices (they continue to drop) and don't be scared to buy from long time sellers with positive feedback on e-bay. Buy your weeks as cheap as you can buy them. If it gets ROFR'd (which probably won't happen) just buy another one as cheap as you can. Keep repeating until you get what you want at a bargain price. 

Most weeks will pass ROFR at all resorts at unheard of prices. There are many great deals to be had if you are a buyer, but times are very bad if you are selling retail or resale.


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## tombo (Nov 18, 2008)

Click on Hilton timeshares on e-bay search and you will come up with 38 matches currently. There are numerous 5000 point ads with buy it now prices of less than $6000 (someone already bought the $4995 Sea World listed above). Buy it now prices are usually overpriced and many get zero bids. Many of the buy it now prices also have the "or best offer" option, so they will sell for less than the buy it now price. There is no better way to keep up with current price trends than being able to see the actual prices they are selling for, no spin, no hype. Log on to e-bay, put any ads you are interested in into your watched items, and track how low these HGVC's are selling for. If the current trend continues, the cheapest price you have ever seen will be even cheaper when the next auction is over. This is the best buyer's market ever, and it is only going to get better for buyers and worse for those trying to sell (both developers and resellers).


http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=hilton+timeshares&_sacat=See-All-Categories


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## KathyA (Nov 19, 2008)

*More on bonus points*

I also have been happy with the use of my bonus points.  I bought direct from Hilton at The Hilton Club in NY.  At the time I bought they were exercising ROFR diligently, so if you wanted The Hilton Club you pretty much had to buy from them.  Here are some of the things I've done with my bonus points:

Hilton Cavalieri in Rome - 5 days
Hilton Metropole in Florence - 7 days
Hilton Las Vegas - 3 days
Hilton Madrid - 1 day
Hilton Barcelona Mar Diagonel - 6 days
Hilton Barbados - two different stays of 3 days each

Sadly, my bonus points are almost gone.  

Cheers,
Kathy


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## Talent312 (Nov 19, 2008)

KathyA said:


> I also have been happy with the use of my bonus points.  I bought direct from Hilton at The Hilton Club in NY.  At the time I bought they were exercising ROFR diligently, so if you wanted The Hilton Club you pretty much had to buy from them...  Sadly, my bonus points are almost gone.



I'm glad that you found good use for your bonus points, but my question is...
If you added up the total value of the points you've used and those you have left to use, based of what it would have cost you to stay in those places, can you honestly say that this more than covered the difference  between what you paid vs. the resale price?

If so, and you're happy that you had those points to use... then I'll concede that you made a good deal and henceforth, I'll bite my tongue.  But otherwise, I'll continue to say that they use those bonus points to induce unsuspecting marks into overpaying for their TS.


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## tombo (Nov 19, 2008)

$20,000 to $30,000 in savings from purchasing resale would buy a lot of rooms, meals, and air fares. Plus you can use cash to stay anywhere,fly any airline, eat at any restaurant, or do anything else you want to do. Points are only valuable at places that are in the points program, and points can be devalued or totally discontinued at any time. 

Always buy resale, never buy from the developers.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 19, 2008)

Just sat thru the Marriott sales pitch at Newport.  They (Marriott) made a big deal deal of all the possible problems you can run into when you buy direct  resale. Later my DW asked me if there was a way to avid most of the problems which Marriott warned about. I said if you bought of one of the >5 TUG tested resalers you could likely be sure of not having problems with your resale. 

Seth is certainly in the small group of resellers which I'd have no worries of "resale problems".


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## Talent312 (Nov 19, 2008)

Bill4728 said:


> ... possible problems you can run into when you buy direct...



Did you mean to say: "...possible problems you can run into when you buy [resale]?"


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