# Belaire Golf Resort & Spa in Puerto Vallarta



## killaseason23

hi everyone... im from Miami, and we recently went to PV mexico in Dec 2006 and purchased a timeshare there... We have had endless amounts of trouble, and suspicions about the legality of this all and we were wondering if anyone has ever heard of this place or  if there is anyone that has bought a timeshare here recently... we bought it pre construction, and through all the research weve found nothing seems to add up right... if anyone can let me know anything i would greatly appreciate it... here is their website for refrence...

www.belairevacationclub.com


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## philemer

killaseason23 said:


> hi everyone... im from Miami, and we recently went to PV mexico in Dec 2006 and purchased a timeshare there... We have had endless amounts of trouble, and suspicions about the legality of this all and we were wondering if anyone has ever heard of this place or  if there is anyone that has bought a timeshare here recently... we bought it pre construction, and through all the research weve found nothing seems to add up right... if anyone can let me know anything i would greatly appreciate it... here is their website for refrence...
> 
> www.belairevacationclub.com


[Moderator hat off]
So, you expect us to believe that you would sink thousands of dollars into a new venture that you knew very little about? Call me skeptical but this looks a little like an advertisement. I'll apologize if proven wrong. 

Where did you meet the salespeople for the "presentation"? Were they using a local hotel? Any incentives? How much were the units selling for? 

Phil


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## Dave M

It doesn't look like an ad to me. If I were posting an ad, I wouldn't use language that casts significant doubt about whether the timeshare project is viable.

It looks to me as though the OP is seeking help rather than an accusation.


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## philemer

As I said above it "looks a little like an advertisement". I could very easily be wrong. Has anyone had any experience with this company? Please forgive me if I'm off-base. 

Phil


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## killaseason23

trust me... its not the ladder... i am only 20 yrs old and was a bit naive about how things work outside the US... i read the contract and everything seems great... but the contract can have everything perfect and they could just pick up and leave... and NO i would no advocate anyone buying from these people... i just put the site up so people can have an idea what i was talking about....  the incentive was we would just go and listen to them, and then get 300 dollars... this was held at the site where the construction was already underway... so we thought....the units were going for $17,000 to $100,000.. the contract has Interval International all over it, and theyre not affiliated with them.. they were going to be initially... but they never finished talks... isnt this grounds for me getting my money back... i dont really trust the justice system in Mexico (and thats coming from a mexican) so dont bash me... Mordidas is the law of the land over there... something i didnt realize until now.... NEVER BUY A TIMESHARE IN MEXICO... its not worth it..


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## taffy19

Here is a web site that may be of some help for consumer laws in Mexico:

http://www.profeco.gob.mx/revista/pu...profeco_06.pdf

http://www.profeco.gob.mx/revista/pu...ares_abr06.pdf


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## philemer

killaseason23 said:


> trust me... its not the ladder... i am only 20 yrs old and was a bit naive about how things work outside the US... i read the contract and everything seems great... but the contract can have everything perfect and they could just pick up and leave... and NO i would no advocate anyone buying from these people... i just put the site up so people can have an idea what i was talking about....  the incentive was we would just go and listen to them, and then get 300 dollars... this was held at the site where the construction was already underway... so we thought....the units were going for $17,000 to $100,000.. the contract has Interval International all over it, and theyre not affiliated with them.. they were going to be initially... but they never finished talks... isnt this grounds for me getting my money back... i dont really trust the justice system in Mexico (and thats coming from a mexican) so dont bash me... Mordidas is the law of the land over there... something i didnt realize until now.... NEVER BUY A TIMESHARE IN MEXICO... its not worth it..



Dear killaseason23,
Welcome to TUG and I want to apologize for jumping to the conclusion that your post "looked a little" like an ad. Many of the folks on this BBS have gone through exactly the same thing. Some have gotten their money back too. Follow the links in the post above and go for a refund. It won't be easy but it is possible. Here's another link http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30391&highlight=rescind

Best wishes,
Phil


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## sugarbear

*belaire*

Yes, I attended the presentation.  What made you seem to think that it was not legitimate?  It was a very luxuriuos place.  Although we did not buy, I thought that it looked good.  Why are you worried about it??


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## SteveHCMM

I have been following Belaire since our trip to PV in May 2007. 

I did confirm they are a member of ARDA
http://www.arda.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Corporate_Dir
(Click on B and find them listed under Belaire Golf Resort & Spa)

...and they have posted some new construction pics on their website. Unfortunately they are just clearing the dirt as of last month.
http://www.belairevacationclub.com/eng/index.htm
(Click on Press & News at the top)

I'll post again when I see anything new.
Steve


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## jeanbean

We also purchased pre-construction membership in this resort and have no information for owners. They do now have some photos of phase11 construction on their web site, but no instructions as to how to access the owners link. we're starting to worry - have we been scammed?
Your thoughts?

jeanbean


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## SteveHCMM

I left a message for Dorota requesting information for 2008 exchange travel and spoke with Marcos, who was not in the office at the time. He says he will contact me tomorrow morning and get a "Welcome Package" expedited out to me.

I'll be sure to call them mid-day if I don't hear back, as well as report here. It's comforting to know that the same people are there that were back in May.

Wish me luck!
Steve


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## jeanbean

*Belaire Welcome Pkg*

Steve,

if you actually receive something, i'll be anxious for news of it and where did you find a live person to talk to. i have tried all the numbers given to us and got no response. sounds like you're having better luck.

i'll be waiting to hear, maybe things are looking up.

jeanbean


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## SteveHCMM

jeanbean,

I called the number on the website - (866) 438-1448 

Some news... I received a message back from Dorota this morning. She claims they will be sending a newsletter to the members this week and that they have not yet completed their final documentation, website, phone lines, etc., which will "probably be before the end of the year, latest." They don't want to provide incomplete information before then.

That is a little contradictory to what Marcos said yesterday, so I plan on calling him if I don't hear from him in the next two hours.

I'm hoping everything is fine and its all just going a bit slower than we had been told initially. The models were beautiful and I am looking forward to visiting Puerto Vallarta quite often once it is ready for occupancy.

I do intend on continuing to follow up until I can get some solid answers. For example, I was told Belaire would be a part of the Registry Collection. Right now I cannot confirm that. They did show me other residence clubs books that we could potentially trade into, but foolishly I did not write any of those down and cannot remember. 

jeanbean, what info do you have on that from your visit?


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## SteveHCMM

I spoke with Dorota this afternoon. She stated again that materials should be out to us before the end of this year and that a member newsletter will be going out in the next week or so. She said the construction completion date is expected to be Jan 2009.

I asked about an exchange company and she said they would be with the Registry Collection. A quick call to the Registry Collection confirmed that they are currently in talks, though nothing is finalized. To clarify, the rep said that Belaire expects to be a member of RC, and RC expects Belaire to be a member. The question now is how are we supposed to use our 2008 weeks if there is no inventory at Belaire to trade.

More news as it happens.


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## Blondie

_So, you expect us to believe that you would sink thousands of dollars into a new venture that you knew very little about?_

Geesh, Phil-  Where ya been? That's all we read about here.


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## SteveHCMM

*Newsletter emailed out*

They sent out an email with a nice, informative newsletter attached, as promised. The body of the email (not the newsletter) is below. :whoopie: 
______________________________
Dear Private Residence Club Members

We are proud to inform you that our fabulous project of Belaire Golf Resort & Spa has already started. 

We broke ground on the 10th of October, our first photographs from the work site can be seen on our web site www.belairevacationclub.com 
Please see our “PRESS & NEWS” section. We will be continually updating the web site with our progress and we hope you will enjoy this feature. 

With this e-mail we would like to share with you our very first NEWSLETTER, we have attached it for your viewing. 

Future news letters will be sent out quarterly with more News from Belaire in sunny Puerto Vallarta. 
_____________________________
Steve


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## philemer

By looking at the map it looks like this resort will be right by the airport. Yes? Might be a little noisy.


Phil


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## jeanbean

*BelaireGolf Resort*

Steve;

Thanks for the info, glad to see someone is receiving something. Yes, we sank a ton of money in this resort, because I wanted to reside in Vallarta permanently and because of my husbands health problems, it was not feasible to do so. This was a alternative, more flexible, without the responsiblity of maintaining a permanent residence. We have been residing there for 6 to 8 wks. for the last 4 yrs. The Belaire sounded great for us. It has just been a little shady about how the whole thing is revolving, compared to what we were told at purchase time. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

jeanbean


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## brucecz

I am in a effort to be fair I am trying to explain  some of the pros‘s and cons on our experience with the Bellaire. 

 I am not trying to tell anyone else to buy or not to buy, but just to put it briefly as possible to let you know what we experienced and learned this past September 2007.

We were down in PV on our anniversary staying  in a resort we have interest in through a ownership in a  differant vacation Club.   We had always before gone to PV during New Years but had not been to PV for about 3 years. 

We rescinded on a Bellaire Club trial package (and not a Full Club ownership) for 10 weeks mainly for the following reason the third day after signing and after having paid in full for slightly under $6,000 for 10 weeks usage at the Belaire or to the supposedly other high end resorts in that registry.

The formal name on our contract was “Contract of  Purchase-Presale of a Membership entered by World Resorts Marketing Enterprises S.de R.L. de C.V. on Behalf of Belaire Golf & Spa and:

Later we noticed in reading over our paperwork this item 
  Quote “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its  assets, which  DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote 

Excuse me but IMHO the buildings and land IMHO would be about 95% of the assets inherit value and the contents etc as a worsr case situation might require a special assessment to get rid of them.

If not for the terms of that  Article 5.2  we might have not rescinded. If they changed that clause and offered a far smaller  Trail package membership  to test out and see if our expectations of what we were told were meet, we might still consider that type of smaller package.

I do not know if the non presale package regular Membership has the same clause in it as ours did. 

If it does then the Regular Club Membership agreement IMHO does not seemingly offer much encouragement of getting much of your money back if as per Article 5.2 if the Club is dissolved.

The paperwork did not explain on how or what was needed to dislove the Club. We found that  to be unsettling.  

One reason Article 5.2   made us leery was that the Belaire spokespeople had made a big deal about pointing out the guaranteed completion  bond that they said that they had to put up, but did not say anything about if the Club was sold or dissolved which we both found unsettling .   It was in the paperwork. 

Marcos was also our salesperson and he was very, very good and very professional and no high pressure tactics were used on us. This is the only time that we would have bought from a developer after having bought 50 resale timeshares, so that tells you how good he must be and how impressed we were with the one and only display unit that they had.

Of course he was :annoyed: unhappy that we cancelled and asked us to stop back in.  We stopped out to give him our rescission the day after first sending copies of that same rescission by certified mail from a Puerto Vallarta post office  that required a signature.

I had found out the next day after signing from another source that he had worked as a trainer the Mayan Palace Group in sales and in other areas. That concerned us a bit.

But he was one of the most professionally  impressive timeshare sales people I have ever meet. After we rescinded he did mention that he did not think much of my writing skills after looking at our rescission paperwork that I had handed directly to him.

Dorota  to her credit removed the charges from our credit card one day earlier than she said she would. We had paid in full for all 10 weeks.  So that is a positive IMHO for their company IMHO.

The unit was very impressive and is by a golf course. It is one of the most impressive units we have seen in about 8 years of timesharing.   The  amenities service was after thinking about it for a couple of days IMHO was going to be over the top for the cost per week of under $600. That $600 would have been even lower if we would have cancelled our rescission as Marcos tried to get us to do with the few more  incentives that he offered us.  

One amenity was seeing that the resort's units were not on the resorts ocean frontage  so you were supposely to have your own personal cart to drive over there. They are supposedly  going to have 7 chefs.

The one unit they did have was quite something with unit divider moveable walls, personal pools and everything was over the top in regards to eye appeal, etc.

Like I said I am not casting aspersions on the integrity of the ownership.  But ownerships lately in these past few years can change owners fairly quickly , etc and that

   “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its  assets, which  DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote 

is the clause  that we were not happy with for the reasons previously explained in regard to protectuing our capitial.

I wonder about apparent coincidences.  

I could not help note that after the OP’s first  posting date 2 new posters who joined the BBS after the OP’s first post joined the Bellaire discussion.

 I see that all of their posts only concern the Bellaire and updates on the progress the Bellaire may be making as per resort news letter. I hope things work out for all three of you and welcome to Tug.

I hope most of you found my post of some information value.

I my self will be checking  from time to time over the next year or so to see when the units are finally completed and being used by the Club members.

I do wish the buyers and the resort developers good luck.

Bruce


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## Zib

We went to a timeshare presentation there last Feb and I thought the place was spectatular!  However, we didn't like it not being on the ocean and we don't golf and we have a lot of other P.V. weeks that we like.  We also had Marcos as our salesman and he was very polite and courteous to us, not very high pressure (well, only a little!) but not rude.  And, yes, he was a salesman for The Grand Mayan and sold a unit to my girlfriend a few years before so we told him we had met him when she bought from him, so maybe that was why he was pretty nice to us.   Anyway, I hope the place turns out as nice as it looked to us then.  If so, I think the people who buy there will be very happy and lucky to own there.  I'd offer to do a review next Feb when we go there but I don't want to go through another presentation and don't know if I can get on the property without doing one but I will try.  If I can go scout around I'll let you know what it looks like now.


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## SteveHCMM

Zib said:


> We went to a timeshare presentation there last Feb and I thought the place was spectatular!  However, we didn't like it not being on the ocean and we don't golf and we have a lot of other P.V. weeks that we like.  We also had Marcos as our salesman and he was very polite and courteous to us, not very high pressure (well, only a little!) but not rude.   <snip>
> I'd offer to do a review next Feb when we go there but I don't want to go through another presentation and don't know if I can get on the property without doing one but I will try.  If I can go scout around I'll let you know what it looks like now.



The place, models at least, are the nicest we've ever seen. We always stay right on the beach too, as we own with Pueblo Bonito, but this just seemed like the right thing to do, even knowing about the resale market. We spent an extreme amount of time there, saying no, no, no, no, no, until the offer fit us just right. And they claim they will have a "Beach Club" which is a short stroll from the resort. The other RC Resorts look very nice as well. Marcos was a hoot!

It would be great if you could stop at the site and give us an update and some photos!



brucecz said:


> I am in a effort to be fair I am trying to explain  some of the pros‘s and cons on our experience with the Bellaire.
> <snip>
> I could not help note that after the OP’s first  posting date 2 new posters who joined the BBS after the OP’s first post joined the Bellaire discussion.
> I see that all of their posts only concern the Bellaire and updates on the progress the Bellaire may be making as per resort news letter. I hope things work out for all three of you and welcome to Tug.
> 
> I hope most of you found my post of some information value.
> I do wish the buyers and the resort developers good luck.
> Bruce



Bruce, thanks for your informative post and the wish of good luck. I'll have to re-read our contract to see if they changed anything between our visits. I have been lurking on these boards for quite some time and did sign up specifically to post on this thread. I do find MOST of the information on TUGBBS very good.



philemer said:


> By looking at the map it looks like this resort will be right by the airport. Yes? Might be a little noisy.
> Phil



Yes, it is very close, though I don't remember noticing any related noise the hours we were there. Don't think it's a deal breaker.



jeanbean said:


> Steve;
> 
> Thanks for the info, glad to see someone is receiving something. Yes, we sank a ton of money in this resort, because I wanted to reside in Vallarta permanently and because of my husbands health problems, it was not feasible to do so. This was a alternative, more flexible, without the responsiblity of maintaining a permanent residence. We have been residing there for 6 to 8 wks. for the last 4 yrs. The Belaire sounded great for us. It has just been a little shady about how the whole thing is revolving, compared to what we were told at purchase time. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
> jeanbean



I'm confident there is light. A badly translated, but informative update was posted on IDOM's site Friday...
http://www.idom.es/noticias.php?id_sec=37&lang=I#109


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## brucecz

Steve, the concept  pictures are nice but do you know when the first part is to be ready to be used?

You might find this interesting that Marcos mentioned to us one of the developer's investors was from your city of Las Vegas. That IMHO is not surprising seeing there seems to be a lot of big money investors in Las Vegas.

We  reallylike our 3 Club 2 bedroom Ownerships that give us direct access to the (older) ocean front Lindo Mar in Puerto Vallarta that we bought this year. 

On our first ownership we had the seller book a 2008 week 8 at the Lindo Mar for our dauther and son-in-laws use.

As I said before I might be interested down the road if the Bellaire had a smaller sampler package but seeing we have 30 ownerships that give us over 100 weeks a year I doubt we wouls actively persue getting a " smaller sampler type package" at this time unless we were somehow contacted.

Bruce


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## aliikai2

*We also cancelled our purchase*

of the presale package. 

Our salesman was Andre, he was fine, but after looking over all the package, it just seemed wrong.

The old adage if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is     

The deal they offered us was an Excutive suite ( Studio) for 1/12 of the year( 4 weeks per year) for 100 years or 400 weeks, with NO annual fees ( forever) and the ability to use weeks off the bottom towards air tix, or anything with them paying $2000 to us for each week.

Then, in 2 years they would buy the unit back for 75% of the then value ( their estimated value was $300K) giving is $225K back for our $120K investment.  

Or at 5 years 100% of our purchase price and 50% of the weeks that were unused out of the 400. 

They also guaranteed to rent any weeks we wanted to rent for a $2k net and send us the money.

It just smelled wrong.

 How can you buy $800K worth of rental weeks for $120 and have no annual cost??  :annoyed: 

I did a search and found lots of whole ownership condos in the area, on the ocean, for under $500K, the total value of this unit at $120K per 1/12 would be $1,440,000 us dollars.

 Plus the extra 4 weeks a year that would be sold as per their plan.

Anyway, we enjoyed their $4000 pesos and the mini breakfast, but in my opinion, I would never advise anyone to purchase this project.

fwiw, Greg


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## karenedith

*Belaire*

We were one of the first purchasers at The Belaire and we were feeling a little uneasy from the start.  Our attitude was "if this works out the way it is supposed to work out, then we have made a great decision".
If it doesn't work out, we've been foolish but can still buy groceries tomorrow.
Being in the real estate industry, I am aware that there are great deals to be made prior to construction and we are hoping this is one of them.
We will be going to PV on Dec. 14 for one week and will report back after that time.  We were down there in July and the showhome was drop dead gorgeous.  Antonio was still running the show and very optimistic about everything.


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## rolledupaces

*belaire golf spa*

we recently came back from puero vallarta where we saw a resort called belarie golf and spa resorts and we must say its was a amazing property. They are still in the building stages but they showed us all there websites. www.idom.com  and they treated us wonderful. my wife is still amazed at the unit !!! Was worth every penni! If you attend this presentation you will be amazed ..i assure you on this . The best product i have seen ..In my opinion.
A young man by the name of jonathan was our contact there.


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## rolledupaces

*(aliikai2) Belaire golf spa*

*November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23  
aliikai2 * 

 I just finished posting here and i read this article and had to comment on this . everything he is talking about is in WRITING in my contract. 75% buy back after 2 yr at the THEN value. ect ect ..It is just funny to see someone bashing a resort they went to and used them for 4000 pesos and a "mini" breakfast as he says ..eat there and let me know if its mini..and then he posts a link to advertise his  brokedown unwanted timeshares online ..Now that is a scam artist if i ever saw one..anyway i just had to coment on that post ...

*November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23  
aliikai2 *


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## brucecz

Does anyone else find it   interesting seeing that this is not in the Tug Newbie area,  that including the OP 6 of the posters on this string had never posted on Tug before the OP's first post on July 29, 2007 ?

Do any of you vets never  remember of this happening before?

Bruce


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## philemer

brucecz said:


> Does anyone else find it   interesting seeing that this is not in the Tub Newbie area,  that including the OP 6 of the posters on this string had never posted on Tug before the OP's first post on July 29, 2007 ?
> 
> Do any of you vets never  remember of this happing before?
> 
> Bruce



Bruce,
I share your skepticism but no rules are being violated so we'll go with the flow.

Phil


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## brucecz

First, I know for a fact that we did not get  4000 pesos  promised for the promotional gift when we signed our contract, and I doubt Greg  did when he signed his contact. We did not get 4000 pesos after we cancelled so at least in our case your 4000 peso claim is bogus.

I doubt you will stick around Tug and contribute 1% of the thruthfull things about timesharing that Greg has. 

As in my earlier post I still would have considered a smaller package but your post blasting Greg does not IMHO enhance the Bellaires image or creditability and will hurt chances of the Bellaire to sell to Tuggers.

So your IMHO seemingly missstatement of facts remind me of "Mayan Palace tactics".

In fact we were incorrectly told to comeback to sign to get the charges off of our charge card. That was not true and was just a lie to get us to resign.

 We in fact would have reinbursed Marcos then for the $65 dinner but they had us come back two more times from the south side of PV on flase pretenses.  Seeing that our 2  cab rides back and forth almost  cost that amount  for 4 cab fares plus the 6 hours time wasted  we did not gain anything.

 But feel free to comment were I stated my reasons for cancelling were in one of my other posts on this string. 

By the way Does Your contact have the same clauses as ours did that we legally recinded?  

 Quote "Later we noticed in reading over our paperwork this item 
Quote “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote 

Excuse me but IMHO the buildings and land IMHO would be about 95% of the assets inherit value and the contents etc as a worsr case situation might require a special assessment to get rid of them.

If not for the terms of that Article 5.2 we might have not rescinded. If they changed that clause and offered a far smaller Trail package membership to test out and see if our exspectations of what we were told were meet, we might still consider that type of smaller package." Unquote.

Bruce 




rolledupaces said:


> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *
> 
> I just finished posting here and i read this article and had to comment on this . everything he is talking about is in WRITING in my contract. 75% buy back after 2 yr at the THEN value. ect ect ..It is just funny to see someone bashing a resort they went to and used them for 4000 pesos and a "mini" breakfast as he says ..eat there and let me know if its mini..and then he posts a link to advertise his  brokedown unwanted timeshares online ..Now that is a scam artist if i ever saw one..anyway i just had to coment on that post ...
> 
> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *


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## brucecz

rolledupaces said:


> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *
> 
> I just finished posting here and i read this article and had to comment on this . everything he is talking about is in WRITING in my contract. 75% buy back after 2 yr at the THEN value. ect ect ..It is just funny to see someone bashing a resort they went to and used them for 4000 pesos and a "mini" breakfast as he says ..eat there and let me know if its mini..and then he posts a link to advertise his  brokedown unwanted timeshares online ..Now that is a scam artist if i ever saw one..anyway i just had to coment on that post ...
> 
> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *



Bruce:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## aliikai2

*Writing is only as good as the company*

and from a what I could find out about this company in a google search. 
They have *NO track record, their program can't work, as it was presented as there was no income to sustain the resort.*

Once you have been around here and timeshares for a few years, you may come to understand that when something sounds too good to be true , it isn't.

And having been to some wonderful breakfast buffets ( *Like my brokedown Grand Mayan*) this cold toast and fruit plate with instant coffee , I was being polite when I called it a mini breakfast. 

Thanks for your comments on my  *brokedown unwanted timeshares *

It merely shows that you have no knowledge of timeshares. 

If you have some of these  please let me know as we are still unable to fill all the rental requests we receive, so we are actively purchasing additional weeks.

As for a scam artist, I must bow to you, as you are much more skilled in that art than I am. 

JMHO, Greg 



rolledupaces said:


> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *
> 
> I just finished posting here and i read this article and had to comment on this . everything he is talking about is in WRITING in my contract. 75% buy back after 2 yr at the THEN value. ect ect ..It is just funny to see someone bashing a resort they went to and used them for 4000 pesos and a "mini" breakfast as he says ..eat there and let me know if its mini..and then he posts a link to advertise his  brokedown unwanted timeshares online ..Now that is a scam artist if i ever saw one..anyway i just had to coment on that post ...
> 
> *November 19, 2007, 12:25 PM    #23
> aliikai2 *


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## rolledupaces

*Response to  aliikai2 ...*

aliikai2   This is for you ..Dec 2 2007 this basically says that mayan palace timeshare will be shut down due to the lies and law suits that it has. Currently it has the most law suits in the country of mexico over 2000(quejas) in the last 9 months .  I am just translating this for everyone so you know before you listen to This guy (aliikai2) trying to sell you his weeks..if you want to go to the mayan just go to www.wyndham.com  and search mexico and get all the mayan you want ...it has been bought out by this company. Due to all the legal problems.   you should feel ashamed trying to rent your timeshare to people on here when they can just rent it per night at www.wyndham.com 
Enjoy your stay at the Mayan !!!! or should i say wyndham....??


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## aliikai2

*Aahhh, here we go..*

*OK, so lets talk about your sales manager( opps, I mean the Hotel Bellaire's sales manager), the guy that trained all the MP/Grupo Mayan sales staff.. 

Also, as you are displaying your ignorance, Wyndam Hotels is now a rental arm of Grupo Mayan, they didn't merge, Wyndam Didn't buy Grupo Mayan.

What a moron, like I said earlier, once you have been around for a while and have a clue as to what is going on in the world of timeshare, Maybe, Just Maybe I will engage with you again, but as of now I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed individual.

GREG *



rolledupaces said:


> aliikai2   This is for you ..Dec 2 2007 this basically says that mayan palace timeshare will be shut down due to the lies and law suits that it has. Currently it has the most law suits in the country of mexico over 2000(quejas) in the last 9 months .  I am just translating this for everyone so you know before you listen to This guy (aliikai2) trying to sell you his weeks..if you want to go to the mayan just go to www.wyndham.com  and search mexico and get all the mayan you want ...it has been bought out by this company. Due to all the legal problems.   you should feel ashamed trying to rent your timeshare to people on here when they can just rent it per night at www.wyndham.com
> Enjoy your stay at the Mayan !!!! or should i say wyndham....??


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## philemer

This is getting personal so I'm closing for now while the admins. review it.

We're reopening this thread. Remember the TUG rules about being kind & playing nice. 

Phil


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## brucecz

SteveHCMM said:


> I spoke with Dorota this afternoon. She stated again that materials should be out to us before the end of this year and that a member newsletter will be going out in the next week or so. She said the construction completion date is expected to be Jan 2009.
> 
> I asked about an exchange company and she said they would be with the Registry Collection. A quick call to the Registry Collection confirmed that they are currently in talks, though nothing is finalized. To clarify, the rep said that Belaire expects to be a member of RC, and RC expects Belaire to be a member. The question now is how are we supposed to use our 2008 weeks if there is no inventory at Belaire to trade.
> 
> More news as it happens.



I was told that the first "Belaire Tower" was to be completed by about  August- September 2008 in time to be used for our next anniversary. I find that now you were told  Jan 2009.   Maybe due to a lack of communication between the management and  the sales force?

We were told this September that they were already signed  with the Registry Collection and we were told that we could trade into the resort at Laguna ? Beach early 2008. Maybe  again due to a lack of communication between the management and  the sales force?


But why would the Registry Collection  confirm with a  outside party that the  Registry Collection was in talks with a company" ?  I find that interesting  and a bit shocking that they have supposedly not gotten a deal done over months and months that the  Registry Collection  would disclose something like that to a non principal.   If the deal never is done it would not reflect very well on the  Registry Collection. 

So did the  Registry Collection tell you why after months and months the deal has not been done? If so, please share with us.

So almost 2 months later they still have not hooked up.
We were told verbally that the exchange part was no problem if we bought even though not one non presentation usable (exchangeable)Belaire unit has been built yet.

 Of course Marcos did not put that exchange  in writing  as a addendum to the contract that the offered exchange with the  Registry Collection could confirmed in writing by the  Registry Collection. 

I am looking forward to the updates on the progress of the Bellaire being posted here.. 

I am curious that no one has offered a factual explanation backed by solid math to counter  Gregs posting that questions if the Bellaire is going to offer all of the great services with no maintenance fees, how does this project pay its operating expenses down the road in  5 or 10 years?

Maybe someone would be kind enough to show us the math behind keeping Belaire solvent.  Thanks in advance for your kindness in sharing that proof of that  vital information on how any timeshare can survive and sustain itself over 5, 10 years with no type of maintenance fees.  

Bruce


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## Suzzy

*We just got back From Belaire in Puerto Vallarta*

We just got back from a trip in late November 2007. We were promised a 4 night stay, shuttle from the airport, and many other things to visit their development for $299. However, they did not pick us up at the airport and did not tell us where to go. Someone at the airport found a cell phone number for someone at the Belaire development and they told us to go to the Marriott and they would pay for it.

Belaire never paid our hotel bill, never paid for golf or several other items they promised. So we are out about $1,000 US dollars on that trip.:annoyed: 

We toured their site and told them of our problems receiving what they offered and they promised to reimburse us. They paid for an inexpensive boat trip, inexpensive massage, and shuttle fee from the airport but no hotel cost, no golf, and other items they promised.

They are disorganized.

The pictures they show on their website that shows they have broken ground are pretty fake. They simply leveled a small section of ground. They have not touched the ground since then. The dirt is just sitting there with no construction.

While they hired a nice designer for the model units I would never buy from them. The airport noise when you are outside is loud. But more importantly, I don't think I have ever seen such a disorganized company.


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## brucecz

Thanks for letting know of your problems. Your posting strongly indicates that Greg and I made the correct and wise decision to recind.

I do feel sorry  for the posters who really had bought into the Bellarire promises and did not recind in time.

I would suggest you email  Dorota at dorta@belairevacationclub.com as Dorota was supposely the one removed the charges from our credit card one day earlier than she said she would. We had paid in full for all 10 weeks. 

I think there may be a way to contact her by phone toll free. Email her and ask for that phone number. Or maybe one of the buyers who posted here that they bought will post that number.   Or try to see if a toll free phone number to contact them is available on their website. 

 Have you called your credit company to dispute the extra costs to you because the Belaire did not honor their promises to you? It might be worth a try.

But I am suggesting that you definately contact Profeco and send them copies all of your emails, faxes, and any other documention you have of the Bellaire promises that were not honored.

Hopefully you will be able to get all or at least some of your money back?  I take it that you did not get 4,000 pesos from the Belaire for touring if you did not buy.

But on the bright side congradulations that you did not buy and spend the many thousands of dollars of money that some posters said they spent.


I wonder how did you  find out about the Belaire to contact them to fly in from somewere else to Puerto Vallarta? Or did they somehow contact you?

But  thanks for sharing as your input on this string may be of help to others who will read  this string before they go down to Puerto Vallarta.

But good luck to you in trying to get them to honor their many failed promises and  committments to you.

Bruce   




Suzzy said:


> We just got back from a trip in late November 2007. We were promised a 4 night stay, shuttle from the airport, and many other things to visit their development for $299. However, they did not pick us up at the airport and did not tell us where to go. Someone at the airport found a cell phone number for someone at the Belaire development and they told us to go to the Marriott and they would pay for it.
> 
> Belaire never paid our hotel bill, never paid for golf or several other items they promised. So we are out about $1,000 US dollars on that trip.:annoyed:
> 
> We toured their site and told them of our problems receiving what they offered and they promised to reimburse us. They paid for an inexpensive boat trip, inexpensive massage, and shuttle fee from the airport but no hotel cost, no golf, and other items they promised.
> 
> They are disorganized.
> 
> The pictures they show on their website that shows they have broken ground are pretty fake. They simply leveled a small section of ground. They have not touched the ground since then. The dirt is just sitting there with no construction.
> 
> While they hired a nice designer for the model units I would never buy from them. The airport noise when you are outside is loud. But more importantly, I don't think I have ever seen such a disorganized company.


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## lilbit

*New member*

Bruce,
I am new to this site and new to buying time shares in general, I have been approached by Antonio @ the bellaire golf & spa resort in PV, he wants to fly my wife and I down for a 4 night 5 day fully paid for trip, with extravigant dinners, fishing trips, golfing and more.  His sales pitch to me was he was a tax expert and he could show me how to never pay taxes again for my small business and he would show me how to make a lot of money owning a Quote "membership", I asked if it was a time share and he said NO.  Now I found this forum on the web and I am vary interested in finding out more information.   He did say this is a pre construction sale and that he has sold 25 Million with in the last 6 months, and this is his 6th party to buy and sell realestate.  He said he paid 5 Million for the land and the total project would be done in 18 months guaranteed in writing.  He has convinced another friend of mine to buy in at 150k, which would include a lifetime membership, first class accomodations every time, everything paid for on each trip, super bowl tickets, NBA playoffs, golf tournament, he has 6 yachts for us to use anytime we are there, all airfares would be paid for the entire family as many times and as much as we want to use the 2 bedroom suite.
Has anyone else been offerred this type of deal.  Everything I am reading spells out time share period, and the dollars most of them are talking about is 6 -10k for 10 weeks, 
Any thoughts or guidance, I am having lunch with my friend tomorrow to discuss his deal in detail.

Any help would be appreciated, by the way great site I found.  Very informative.


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## brucecz

Thanks for asking and I am flattered but I am not a Timeshare or Tax expert like some on  this site are. I still use the same tax accountant I used for about 25 years when I started by small business 25 years ago before retiring in  early 2001. 

After reading all the posts on this string posted so far I think you may already know the answer.

But let me ask you what is your common sense telling you once you get past all the whisles and bells?  

What do you think a  certified accountant would tell you about the following?
What would your accountant tell you about what I quoted immediately below?

Quote "His sales pitch to me was he was a tax expert and he could show me how to  neverrofl: :rofl pay taxes again for my small business and he would show me how to make a lot of money owning a Quote "membership", I asked if it was a time share and he said NO."

Maybe Dave M. a Tug Moderator and I belive is a certified accountant may provide you with a answer  that is thruthful and legally correct and so the US goverment does not come after you.    I think he just recently posted about a similar type tax claim made in Mexico, but I do not want to make a mistake by trying to post what I think he said. I found that thread and hear it is.

.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60316

There presentation certainly has a lot of sizzle, but where is the steak. The steak is not was verbally promised but is written in to the contract.  Certainly not in the paperwork as I pointed out below. None of the posters have tryed to refute that fact because it is  written in the we received paperwork. They made a lot of promises but those  verbal promises were NOT put into the contract.

My reasoning was and still is Quote "Later we noticed in reading over our paperwork this item 
Quote “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote. 

Quoting myself Quote  "Excuse me but IMHO the buildings and land IMHO would be about 95% of the assets inherit value and the contents etc as a worsr case situation might require a special assessment to get rid of them." Unquote


I myself recinded in the proper legal manner and the most of the posts on this string reinforce the feeling that I  was 100% correct in recinding. Especially the posts that IMHO attacked Greg unfairly.

But two days from tonight we will be either in a ocean front unit at the Driftwood Inn in Vero Beach, Fl or at the Reef in the Keys depending which area has the better.

Bruce


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## brucecz

lilbit said:


> Bruce,
> I am new to this site and new to buying time shares in general, I have been approached by Antonio @ the bellaire golf & spa resort in PV, he wants to fly my wife and I down for a 4 night 5 day fully paid for trip, with extravigant dinners, fishing trips, golfing and more.  His sales pitch to me was he was a tax expert and he could show me how to never pay taxes again for my small business and he would show me how to make a lot of money owning a Quote "membership", I asked if it was a time share and he said NO.  Now I found this forum on the web and I am vary interested in finding out more information.   He did say this is a pre construction sale and that he has sold 25 Million with in the last 6 months, and this is his 6th party to buy and sell realestate.  He said he paid 5 Million for the land and the total project would be done in 18 months guaranteed in writing.  He has convinced another friend of mine to buy in at 150k, which would include a lifetime membership, first class accomodations every time, everything paid for on each trip, super bowl tickets, NBA playoffs, golf tournament, he has 6 yachts for us to use anytime we are there, all airfares would be paid for the entire family as many times and as much as we want to use the 2 bedroom suite.
> Has anyone else been offerred this type of deal.  Everything I am reading spells out time share period, and the dollars most of them are talking about is 6 -10k for 10 weeks,
> Any thoughts or guidance, I am having lunch with my friend tomorrow to discuss his deal in detail.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated, by the way great site I found.  Very informative.



Below is one thing that tells me that I made the correct decision. Does this sound similar to what you are being promised?

Quote "We just got back from a trip in late November 2007. We were promised a 4 night stay, shuttle from the airport, and many other things to visit their development for $299. However, they did not pick us up at the airport and did not tell us where to go. Someone at the airport found a cell phone number for someone at the Belaire development and they told us to go to the Marriott and they would pay for it.

Belaire never paid our hotel bill, never paid for golf or several other items they promised. So we are out about $1,000 US dollars on that trip. 

We toured their site and told them of our problems receiving what they offered and they promised to reimburse us. They paid for an inexpensive boat trip, inexpensive massage, and shuttle fee from the airport but no hotel cost, no golf, and other items they promised.

They are disorganized.

The pictures they show on their website that shows they have broken ground are pretty fake. They simply leveled a small section of ground. They have not touched the ground since then. The dirt is just sitting there with no construction." Unquote.

Bruce


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## jeffk

*Belaire*

Hello everyone,

We were a referral from one of the members who purchased before, first my wife totally fell in love with the project, we never saw anything so beautiful as the Belaire club, about the taxes.... we were very happy with what they showed and told us on Tax Benefits, we own a construction company and I'm sure that if it fits your scenario of benefit, you probably wouldn't have to pay taxes again, there are advantages in the program that are helpful, probably to many people like us, if you're wondering if the tax benefits work, they work for us this year.

Jeff


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## brucecz

jeffk said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> We were a referral from one of the members who purchased before, first my wife totally fell in love with the project, we never saw anything so beautiful as the Belaire club, about the taxes.... we were very happy with what they showed and told us on Tax Benefits, we own a construction company and I'm sure that if it fits your scenario of benefit, you probably wouldn't have to pay taxes again, there are advantages in the program that are helpful, probably to many people like us, if you're wondering if the tax benefits work, they work for us this year.
> 
> Jeff



Gee, this string must be setting a record for the highest percentage of first time posters. I see this poster also just registered  in the last 24 hours.



  Quote "we own a construction company and I'm sure that if it fits your scenario of benefit, you probably wouldn't have to pay taxes again" Unquote.
What is the name of your company?

Please name the US accounting firm and the  certified accountant that gave you that advice saying this "deal" is legal in regard to paying no US taxes again while remaining a US citizen.  

Or at least please identify the US tax code number that allows you  and other US citizens not to pay US taxes because of this offering. 

Then people can verify your information as part of their due dilagence. Other wise people may think you are a shill.    

Here is what a certified accountant and said about another Mexican :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:  pay no taxes  pipedream.  

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60316

If anyone really belives this  pay no taxes, pay no upkeep,  pay no maintence fees talk and supposed  I would suggest you  spend a couple of dollars to talk to accountant and get their opinion. 

If the last poster can not or will not identify that US tax code number loophole then people may question his agenda of his first post.

I wonder if Tug  tracked all the posters IP's on this if any are coming from Mexico? I saw that on another string a poster said that Tug could trace those IP's. 

None of the posters in their signatures, etc have stated that they are from Mexico.

Bruce


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## Dave M

"jeffk" posts from Mexico, the location of the resort, not from San Diego, where he claims he is from. Take that into consideration in deciding whether to give credibility to his post.

Edited to add that he is posting from the same geographical area in Mexico as "rolledupaces" posts from.


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## aliikai2

*Hola, San Diego has moved to*

Puerto Vallarta..:rofl: :rofl: :hysterical:   

More unarmed individuals trying to get into a battle of wits....

I guess they figure that we are as poorly equipped in the gray matter department as they appear to be, to come hear and try to snow us on our own turf.:annoyed: 

Looks like the standard TS sales proffesional, if you can't impress them with your knowledge, then try to dazzle them with your bulls...

fwiw,

Greg


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## Blondie

I was going to say there really is one "born every minute" but on this thread I think we are talking about multiple births.  The new posters here appear to think they know lots more than seasoned tuggers. I have only read bits and pieces of what is posted here but I am sure my tax accountant would advise against my investing $150K (yikes) in this shell game. Good lord, anyone with half a brain knows the risks of buying in Mexico from a developer with nothing to show but a breakfast. How dumb can you be?


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## brucecz

Thank you Dave for your posting and giving everyone a heads up.

Bruce


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## jeffk

*Posting from Mexico*

Just touching base with you guys, and to reply Dave's comment. Why am I posting from Mexico?  well, that's because we're still in Mexico, actually we're goign back to San Diego in two more weeks where I'll touch base with you guys so Dave can make sure I'm posting from US, in the meantime, I'll keep posting from Mexico, just to let you know I just came from the property and Andre, our salesman just invited me to the grand opening of their restaurant, which will be this wednesdat 19th, he told me all the big people in Puerto Vallarta will be here, so I we'll have a chance to meet the mayor of Puerto Vallarta and get to know the future plans for the city, I'm sure they will be protecting our investment, also we noticed they started bringing the real equipment like the big Cranes we saw on Peninsula and Tres Mares, so hopefully we will eye witness the start of the foundations before we go back home  .


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## Blondie

Yikes- you're sure they are protecting your investment?? Shows how little you know regarding Mexico timeshares. Take a few minutes and read up on that topic. You could learn a few things.


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## brucecz

jeffk said:


> Just touching base with you guys, and to reply Dave's comment. Why am I posting from Mexico?  well, that's because we're still in Mexico, actually we're goign back to San Diego in two more weeks where I'll touch base with you guys so Dave can make sure I'm posting from US, in the meantime, I'll keep posting from Mexico, just to let you know I just came from the property and Andre, our salesman just invited me to the grand opening of their restaurant, which will be this wednesdat 19th, he told me all the big people in Puerto Vallarta will be here, so I we'll have a chance to meet the mayor of Puerto Vallarta and get to know the future plans for the city, I'm sure they will be:hysterical:  protecting our investment, also we noticed they started bringing the real equipment like the big Cranes we saw on Peninsula and Tres Mares, so hopefully we will eye witness the start of the foundations before we go back home  .



Quote[ rolledupaces 
Guest


BBS Reg. Date: Dec 2, 07
Posts: 3  belaire golf spa 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

we recently came back from puero vallarta where we saw a resort called belarie golf and spa resorts and we must say its was a amazing property. They are still in the building stages but they showed us all there websites. www.idom.com and they treated us wonderful. my wife is still amazed at the unit !!! Was worth :hysterical: every penni! If you attend this presentation you will be  amazed ..i assure you on this . The best product i have seen  ..In my opinion.
A young man by the name of jonathan was our contact there. ]Unquote

RolledupAaces in the post number 25 I am quoting here claimed to have turned from Mexico on Dec 2, 2007. He is still in Mexico just like you are.
I pull the symbols in the quote above to express my opinion about this uncreditable poster that is a BLANTANT SHILL.

Maybe you are  just taking a trip to San Diego. I guess someone may post to you a 3 weeks or a month or 2 or 3 or so after you post from San Diego to see if you respond  asap and what your IP is at that time.  This is a good way for you to show  you are not just another shill like rolledupaces  apparently is.    Maybe you are just a newbie minnow unaware that you are swimming with vacation club sharks.


If you still belive or maybe just want to and hope that you were not ripped off and  that rolledupaces and the gang he seems to represent is crew who you trust after reading posts numbers  25,26, 36,43,44 and 48, I would have to question your judgement.

IMHO it appears for some unknown reason  and against basic common sense that you are in denial. Or as I said before maybe you are just a newbie minnow unaware that you are swimming with vacation club sharks. 

But you seemingly are sticking up for the likes of rolledupaces when you did not express any concern about his lies.  What do you think of the lies and the attacks by rolledupaces on this string? 

Bruce


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## italianma

*Timeshare Rentals*

Rudeness & name calling are not allowed. Please refrain.


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## pammex

Wow. this is some post....okay I am in Mexico...I am headed to PV in Jan, the 20th to be exact....How much are they offering to attend a presentation?  Are they paying it?  I will go and check it out for all of us....Hey I love hearing the bull...and getting the freebies.  Where exactly is this supposed project?  My curiosity is piqued?  but I do not want to waste 4 hrs or so of my time for no payment.  By the way I am an owner at Mayan Palace and also Velas in PV, bought resale.  I have attended many timeshare presentations, just to see what is being offered out there and to stay up on well, you know the lies, and because I go frequently to PV so as long as I get paid I am not missing out on precious vacation time....what do you tuggers think, should I give it a shot or no?


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## Blondie

You will likely need a cigarette and a shower afterwards.


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## brucecz

brucecz said:


> Does anyone else find it   interesting seeing that this is not in the Tug Newbie area,  that including the OP 6 of the posters on this string had never posted on Tug before the OP's first post on July 29, 2007 ?
> 
> Do any of you vets never  remember of this happening before?
> 
> Bruce



Now the count is what up to 9 or 10.

Bruce


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## brucecz

italianma said:


> Rudeness & name calling are not allowed. Please refrain.



I saw your unediited post as I am a subscriber to this string and it was sent to us before it was edited, and like rolledupaces your post directed at Greg was not close to being :hysterical: factually correct in regard to his Mayan Palace rental inventory. I see you are ALSO  a first time poster. The first time poster record is still growing.


What is correct is that  the Mud Resorts (some still call it the  Belaire) main trainer  Marcos addmitted to us that he was  trainer for Salespeople for the Mayan Palace. We have wittnessed those same type of Mayan Palace tactics in the posts attacking Greg for telling the thruth about the Mud Resort. 

The types of posts of rolledupaces shows that the Mud resorts hires people that even  wastegate would not lower themsevlesto hire like rolledupaces.

There are two  valid reasons why I call it The Mud Resort.  One is there is just a muddy field were the Mud Resort supposely may be built.

The other main reason is because of posts  by people like you and the sleazy tactics by rolledupaces and  his fellow shills that so transparent only a scam sales person would think that they would work here, and so the resorts reputation's earned name is Mud.  

Please post something that is factully correct, not the incorrect name calling that you directed at Greg.


Bruce


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## aliikai2

[_I have again deleted the contents of this post, which was originally a personal attack. Editing a post that a moderator deletes is not permitted._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## Joe M

*How did Belaire find these prospects?*

I was at Club Regina for twelve days earlier this month. My wife and I took daily walks around the marina loop and walked right past Belaire every time. We are in our early fifties and therefore might as well have "timeshare prospects" tattooed on our foreheads. While we had to turn down the Mayan Palace and Paradise Village OPC's several times a day we were never once approached by anyone from Belaire.

I find it unusual that so many newbies had contact with Belaire when it seems they have no OPC presence in the marina or downtown. Given the complete absence of a sales force I didn't think they were even at the pre-construction sales phase yet.


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## aliikai2

[_Edited to delete inappropriate post, including reference to an earlier deletion._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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