# 7/2022 Owner's Update -- The best explanation I have received on the Diamond Resorts acquisition and how it applies to  HGVC members



## rdw95 (Jul 9, 2022)

We are at Park City for 2 weeks, and had an Owner's update.  The reason we went was to receive the latest on the Diamond Resorts acquisition.  It seems that the dust has cleared, and he gave us a very clear explanation of what will happen.  Hope these are accurate, as it is what we understood.

1.  Beginning in August, HGV Max goes live

2.  HGV ownership is a "Deed"

3.  Diamond Resorts is a "Trust", and has 3  "Trust" groups comprising the ownership (not deeds).  They are based on location;  (US) - Most of the US;  (H) - a part of the US and Hawaii;  and (C) - the rest of the world

4.  HGVC members will NOT be able to schedule in the Diamonds Resort properties, UNLESS they either purchase into the Diamonds Trusts, or become a member of HGV Max.

5.  Diamond Resort members will NOT be able to schedule in the HGVC properties, UNLESS they either purchase a deeded HGVC property, or become a member of HGV Max.

6.  As of August 1st, you will have to pay a purchase price to get into HGV Max (of $7-10,000).  It will not be automatically included if you upgrade or purchase a new property through HGV.

7.  Before August 1st, HGVC owners can upgrade or purchase a new property, and HGV Max will be included at no charge if it is a qualifying (enough $$) purchase

8.  After August 1st, HGVC owners will have to pay the HGV Max purchase price (in addition to any purchase or upgrade) to be included in HGV Max

9.  HGVC owners who become members of HGV Max will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts 6 months ahead.

10.  Diamond Resorts (trust) owners will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts properties within the Trust they own in (US, H, C) 13 months ahead.  They will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts outside of their Trust (the other two) 10 months ahead of time.

11.  HGVC owners will still be able to reserve their home weeks 12 - 9 months ahead of time (as it currently is).

12.  HGVC owners will be able to reserve HGVC sites 9 months ahead if it is not their home resort/week (as it currently is).

13. HGV Max owners will be able to have "Loyalty Search Requests".  What this means is "that eligible members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability.  This search can be for a resort or region, date or date range, any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival.  Should availability open, the _active searches_ are fulfilled through an automated process based on the HGV Max tier status".  The way all this was explained to us was that the request would be put in, and filled once the 9 month window opened.  He went on to say this would be filled first automatically before others trying to make reservations at the 9 month window would have a chance.

14. HGV Max members will have tiers, just like HGVC members have.  These tiers are based on points.  I have attached a photo with the explanation of the HGV Max Tiers.  These tiers are based on points, and the points required for each tier are hand-written above each column.

15.  He said that the way most Diamond Resorts members are getting access to the HGVC properties is that they are buying HGVC property, thus having an "in" into the HGVC system.  That way they will have the same reservation windows as other HGVC members, because they will be HGVC owners.

16.  He said that both HGVC and Diamond Resorts have roughly 350,000 members each.

17.  Purchases at the HGVC affiliate sales offices (SW Florida, Scotland) will not apply toward becoming an HGV Max owner.

18.  HGVC resale purchases will not count toward or apply to becoming HGV Max members.

Hope this is not clear as mud.


----------



## SFTechGeek (Jul 9, 2022)

Thanks. Good information to know. Going to an owner update at Ocean Tower in a few weeks and I'm sure that is what they're going to be pushing to purchase HGV Max before Aug 1. But it seems that the salespeople in Hawaii are nowhere as pushy as those in Vegas.


----------



## rdw95 (Jul 9, 2022)

Our guy was great - not pushy at all.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 9, 2022)

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?

I was just at one in Tuscany this week and they tried to "upgrade" our annual Tuscany to an EOY for $7k that would get us into Max.  Their selling point was that we would have less maintenance, of course, since it is a EOY versus an annual and that since we are Elite Premier we would come in as Premier +. We have 1 retail (Tuscany), two resale at Blvd, and 6 resale in Scotland and he told us that all of them would come into Max and count toward the tiers.  He didn't seem to know anything about the $7k fee but then I told him that it is in the reference guide and I showed him the Mark Wang email that HGVClub Legacy members would be able to pay the fee later this year to join Max without a new purchase/upgrade, they seemed stumped but then offered to match the $7k with the Tuscany "downgrade".  He also didn't know how the $199/contract, that is listed in the reference guide, will actually work for folks who have multiple deeds.

He also admitted that the sales staff don't know how all of this is going to actually be rolled out.  He seemed stumped, at first, about the Scotland counting for Elite and told us that we are "brave" to buy there since it is not owned by HGVC but only managed so HGVC could stop managing them anytime.

He did talk up the 30/30 travel option that you can see in the above graphic and the $700 OS credit. He also said that we would retain all of our Elite Premier benefits and get the Premier + benefits so for OS, it would be a $700 credit and the current 30% discount that we already get.  I think he was full of it and you would not retain the Elite Premier benefits but move to the Max Tiers instead if we had joined.

I am still in a wait and see mode for this since I still don't think most sales people actually know what they are talking about.  The are either cherry picking points for a sale or telling people what they think it will be.  

There has also been discussion that the Loyalty searches will only be for HVC properties, not HGVC or bHC since the 10 month window aligns to one of their reservation windows.

Corrina on the FB group commented that she was told January for the DRI side of Max.  I have also heard August but we will see.  I did tell the sales rep at our meeting that the Max rollout out has been a sh$tshow.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 9, 2022)

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists.  The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.  

Other questions:


 How do they balance inventory?  It sounds as if Max is still tied to a base ownership with an HGVC deed or Diamond trust ownership.  What happens to HGVC inventory if more Diamond Max members make reservations in HGVC than do HGVC Max members reserving in Diamond?  Don't those two have to balance out?
What about deeded Diamond owners who have been part of the Diamond Club?


----------



## GT75 (Jul 9, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> How do they balance inventory? It sounds as if Max is still tied to a base ownership with an HGVC deed or Diamond trust ownership. What happens to HGVC inventory if more Diamond Max members make reservations in HGVC than do HGVC Max members reserving in Diamond? Don't those two have to balance out?


Good questions which honestly IDK.    But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system.     I think that they just let availability manage the system.    I would like to hear from others.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 9, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Good questions which honestly IDK.    But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system.     I think that they just let availability manage the system.    I would like to hear from others.



I always wonder if it’s just a case of giving the home week reservations and the club reservations 3 months booking availability. I think the DRI is just an issue of so much inventory is owned by the developer, but does HGVC own enough to allow for the DRI Max owners? Would there be enough DRI Max owners to really be an issue? Something tells me we will never know.


----------



## brp (Jul 9, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Good questions which honestly IDK.    But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system.     I think that they just let availability manage the system.    I would like to hear from others.



I would expect that the available inventory seen by members with different affiliations will be different. This way they can manage DRI participation in HGVC, for example. by having a subset of HGVC inventory available to them. It could even be dynamic based on how many HGVC folks take DRI inventry, but I doubt this last bit.

Cheers.


----------



## rdw95 (Jul 9, 2022)

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
--- yes they did

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
--- that was what I was thinking.  I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not.  I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us.  What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 9, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
> --- yes they did
> 
> As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
> --- that was what I was thinking.  I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not.  I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us.  What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.


I know one thing that folks, who own both, are wondering is how their points will combine, i.e. will they end up with one bucket or two separate buckets of points.


----------



## brp (Jul 9, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I know one thing that folks, who own both, are wondering is how their points will combine, i.e. will they end up with one bucket or two separate buckets of points.



I would expect multiple buckets since each bucket has different privileges in each program. Just as HGVC and bHC are in separate buckets with different privileges. They already have the infrastructure for separate buckets so adding more should not be difficult.

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 9, 2022)

brp said:


> I would expect multiple buckets since each bucket has different privileges in each program. Just as HGVC and bHC are in separate buckets with different privileges. They already have the infrastructure for separate buckets so adding more should not be difficult.
> 
> Cheers.


Probably won't be good news for them. I assume that they would want one bucket to use across HGV if they are in Max.


----------



## Tamaradarann (Jul 9, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
> --- yes they did
> 
> As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
> --- that was what I was thinking.  I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not.  I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us.  What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.



I am confused with #9 the opening of Diamond inventory 6 months out, as compared to #13 the loyalty search.  If you can do a loyalty search 10 months out to be in effect at 9 months out why do you need to have the Diamond Inventory opened up at 6 months out?


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 9, 2022)

Tamaradarann said:


> I am confused with #9 the opening of Diamond inventory 6 months out, as compared to #13 the loyalty search.  If you can do a loyalty search 10 months out to be in effect at 9 months out why do you need to have the Diamond Inventory opened up at 6 months out?


The loyalty search is only for higher level tier members and fulfilled based on level.... At least, according to the tier info shared in prior posts.


----------



## weems637 (Jul 9, 2022)

What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out?  It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!


----------



## PigsDad (Jul 10, 2022)

weems637 said:


> What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out?  It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!


Exactly!

Kurt


----------



## 90_Min_Sales_Pitch (Jul 10, 2022)

weems637 said:


> What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out?  It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!



I'm holding out for HGV MINI, where I can book 3 months out!


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 10, 2022)

weems637 said:


> What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out?  It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!


None, for the moment but, at some point down the road when many have been added, it may be nice to have access to them. DRI folks will join no matter what we do so our inventory will be impacted so we may as well impact theirs also. Right now sales folks have been telling folks that they can only join with a purchase so I wanted to hear if they are giving the whole truth... That a $7k fee will be an option later. 

On availability, I haven't really had problems reserving. We have 9 booked this year without too much effort but when Max is functional, reserving in the 6 month window will be more challenging.


----------



## geist1223 (Jul 10, 2022)

We are DRI members tjat have no desire to join. I am sure there are many other DRI members that have no desire to join.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 10, 2022)

geist1223 said:


> We are DRI members tjat have no desire to join. I am sure there are many other DRI members that have no desire to join.


I assume that many will though.  It would give them access to both HGVC and bHC.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

This really sounds like a poorly planned integration to me. There is little to no advantage to purchasing retail. It’s still better to purchase resale in either HGVC if those are the resorts you desire most, purchase in the DRI trust if those are the resorts you desire most, or purchase resale in both HGVC or the DRI trust that fits your needs.

the reasoning is simple. The 6 month MAX booking window is the shortest of them all. If I purchase a DRI trust resale, I have a 13 month booking window in that trust. If I buy HGVC resale I have a 9 month booking window with all HGVC resorts. The resale purchase price for both would undoubtedly be LESS than buying retail AND I gain, at a minimum, a three month head start for reservations over all MAX members.

I see absolutely no advantage to making a retail purchase if the only reason is to gain access to the MAX program.

As to the validity of the salesman’s comments. I would almost bet that the buy in price will be less than $7,000 if you make a retail purchase after August 1. That statement is being made to get that sense of urgency for an impulse purchase today. I still find it amazing that Hilton believes people will pay $7,000 to join MAX with all it’s limitations, but we at TUG are informed consumers whereas the average timeshare purchaser is not, and likely doesn’t understand the resale market.

I had really high hopes for this program. With the information available at this time, it appears to be a bad deal for us. Perhaps with the official roll out we’ll see some truth the sales staff has been hiding so they can make a sale today rather than customers saying they’ll wait until everything is official.

I almost forgot. Did he say August of what year


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> None, for the moment but, at some point down the road when many have been added, it may be nice to have access to them. DRI folks will join no matter what we do so our inventory will be impacted so we may as well impact theirs also. Right now sales folks have been telling folks that they can only join with a purchase so I wanted to hear if they are giving the whole truth... That a $7k fee will be an option later.
> 
> On availability, I haven't really had problems reserving. We have 9 booked this year without too much effort but when Max is functional, reserving in the 6 month window will be more challenging.



I feel you’re correct about the 6 month or less booking window becoming more of a challenge. Short notice/discounted stays will dry up at some point down the road. Based on my experience with Marriott, I would estimate it will take upwards of 10 years before the MAX membership is large enough to have a significant impact. I don’t think there will be many owners buying additional weeks just to become MAX members. I believe they’ll buy for other reasons and just get MAX thrown in. If there’s an additional cost, it will have to be so low that it’s worth the extra price. I don’t believe $7,000 to $10,000 is the price point significant numbers of people will jump at the option, and those that do will be those who complain timeshare is a rip off and want out via the timeshare exit scammers.

I see this as a very slow moving program rather than a skyrocketing program. I just don’t see membership numbers climbing fast if what you’ve been told is accurate. The problem is, the salesman’s lips were moving. Accuracy isn’t a salesman’s strong point, even when they’re not pushy or aggressive.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 10, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I feel you’re correct about the 6 month or less booking window becoming more of a challenge. Short notice/discounted stays will dry up at some point down the road. Based on my experience with Marriott, I would estimate it will take upwards of 10 years before the MAX membership is large enough to have a significant impact. I don’t think there will be many owners buying additional weeks just to become MAX members. I believe they’ll buy for other reasons and just get MAX thrown in. If there’s an additional cost, it will have to be so low that it’s worth the extra price. I don’t believe $7,000 to $10,000 is the price point significant numbers of people will jump at the option, and those that do will be those who complain timeshare is a rip off and want out via the timeshare exit scammers.
> 
> I see this as a very slow moving program rather than a skyrocketing program. I just don’t see membership numbers climbing fast if what you’ve been told is accurate. The problem is, the salesman’s lips were moving. Accuracy isn’t a salesman’s strong point, even when they’re not pushy or aggressive.


Someone had posted the sales numbers for Q1 and it was up.  It will be interesting to see Q2 since those folks are automatically in Max.  I agree though that inventory won't take an immediate hit since they are slow to rebrand to HVC but we will see how many are in when the portal is open in August.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 10, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> This really sounds like a poorly planned integration to me. There is little to no advantage to purchasing retail. It’s still better to purchase resale in either HGVC if those are the resorts you desire most, purchase in the DRI trust if those are the resorts you desire most, or purchase resale in both HGVC or the DRI trust that fits your needs.
> 
> the reasoning is simple. The 6 month MAX booking window is the shortest of them all. If I purchase a DRI trust resale, I have a 13 month booking window in that trust. If I buy HGVC resale I have a 9 month booking window with all HGVC resorts. The resale purchase price for both would undoubtedly be LESS than buying retail AND I gain, at a minimum, a three month head start for reservations over all MAX members.
> 
> ...


The only downside to buying both sides is that you end up with two buckets of points versus one bucket that could be used for both.  I know some DRI folks already own on the HGVC side and they are waiting to see who their two buckets will work together.


----------



## Smclaugh99 (Jul 10, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He did talk up the 30/30 travel option that you can see in the above graphic and the $700 OS credit. He also said that we would retain all of our Elite Premier benefits and get the Premier + benefits so for OS, it would be a $700 credit and the current 30% discount that we already get.  I think he was full of it and you would not retain the Elite Premier benefits but move to the Max Tiers instead if we had joined.



I am/was Elite Premier and have taken advantage of the 30% OS discounts on 2-night stays in Orlando on multiple occasions. I upgraded one of my resale W57 deeds from gold to platinum for $15k (+ 25000 bonus points) in April that put me into Max (by default). My status is now Premier Plus, which would give me $700 OS credit each year. I don’t love that trade and feel it’s an inferior swap. But the most irritating thing is that as of now (and for the past couple months) I have NO elite discount or credit on OS (presumably until Max goes live).  Wouldn’t it make sense to maintain the existing status until the program actually starts?  Thanks HGVC!

Sean


----------



## dayooper (Jul 10, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I assume that many will though.  It would give them access to both HGVC and bHC.



But why? Most DRI owners I have come in contact with want no part of HGVC and the cost of joining Max is outrageous, more so than ours would be.

DRI and HGVC are very different systems and many people made their purchases for a reason. What’s important to us HGVC owners is different than what’s important to DRI owners. Anything else is just salesman spiel to get a sale.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> The only downside to buying both sides is that you end up with two buckets of points versus one bucket that could be used for both.  I know some DRI folks already own on the HGVC side and they are waiting to see who their two buckets will work together.



True, but you gain a 9 month booking window with Hilton (12 month home resort advantage) or a 13 month booking window with a DRI trust. So it comes down to, is one bucket worth the short booking window or is it better to have separate buckets and gain a time advantage over all others.

I suspect those that own a great deal in either program will see one bucket as the best/least expensive option. Those like me who own only 1 platinum two bedroom week will see the two bucket option as less expensive.

In our case, I don’t need easy access to Maui or Kauai, but I would like access to Sedona. If I really want access, I’ll look to get a resale trust ownership with enough points to book the resort and unit type we would be comfortable in.

I had hoped that Hilton would offer current/loyal owners a better option. I am disappointed that doesn’t appear to be the case.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 10, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> True, but you gain a 9 month booking window with Hilton (12 month home resort advantage) or a 13 month booking window with a DRI trust. So it comes down to, is one bucket worth the short booking window or is it better to have separate buckets and gain a time advantage over all others.
> 
> I suspect those that own a great deal in either program will see one bucket as the best/least expensive option. Those like me who own only 1 platinum two bedroom week will see the two bucket option as less expensive.
> 
> ...



I wonder if the easier membership will come with time. The 2 systems are so different from each other, I believe this is the only way they could get the ball rolling and take advantage of the desire for new locations right now. The Marriott/Vistana integration is still being worked on and it’s 3 or 4 years after it’s been announced? Trying to integrate a trust system into a deeded system must have some very sticky legal issues. It’s why you have the shortened Max booking window and the loyalty searches that happen at 9 months - They don’t want to disrupt the deeded rights we owners have. Some with the trust booking windows. It disappoints me in the money grabbing they are doing.


----------



## Agepay (Jul 10, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> We are at Park City for 2 weeks, and had an Owner's update.  The reason we went was to receive the latest on the Diamond Resorts acquisition.  It seems that the dust has cleared, and he gave us a very clear explanation of what will happen.  Hope these are accurate, as it is what we understood.
> 
> 1.  Beginning in August, HGV Max goes live
> 
> ...


Thank you for gleaning and sharing this info. Did y'all happen to discuss if Embarc will follow a similar integration plan?


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 10, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> I am/was Elite Premier and have taken advantage of the 30% OS discounts on 2-night stays in Orlando on multiple occasions. I upgraded one of my resale W57 deeds from gold to platinum for $15k (+ 25000 bonus points) in April that put me into Max (by default). My status is now Premier Plus, which would give me $700 OS credit each year. I don’t love that trade and feel it’s an inferior swap. But the most irritating thing is that as of now (and for the past couple months) I have NO elite discount or credit on OS (presumably until Max goes live).  Wouldn’t it make sense to maintain the existing status until the program actually starts?  Thanks HGVC!
> 
> Sean


Ugh....that is crap.  I get that they have to wait until the system is live for booking but why couldn't they provide the premier + benefits?  I guess you will be the test case for us to see if you get both like the sales person told me but, if that was the case,  you would still get the elite premier benefits until premier + kicked in.


----------



## brp (Jul 10, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> The only downside to buying both sides is that you end up with two buckets of points versus one bucket that could be used for both.



Possibly, but I expect some limitations. As I mentioned above (supposition at this point, of course), I don't expect a single bucket. Each set of points would likely have their own extra-access perks as now. So, *only* the HGVC point bucket could be used at 12-9 and 9-6 windows while *only* DRI could be used at 13 (I believe) - 6 windows.

Within 6, of course, I expect an all-points free-for-all.

So, even with pooled points, I'd expect this to on;y happen at 6 months.

Inasmuch as we book more than 6 months out, except for late-decide trips to places like Vegas that are overbuilt and easy to get, this has zero advantage. Even for free with resale purchases, while I'd take it because why not, I doubt we'd ever really use it.

I certainly ain't gonna pay for it.

Cheers.


----------



## escanoe (Jul 10, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> This really sounds like a poorly planned integration to me. There is little to no advantage to purchasing retail. It’s still better to purchase resale in either HGVC if those are the resorts you desire most, purchase in the DRI trust if those are the resorts you desire most, or purchase resale in both HGVC or the DRI trust that fits your needs.



I will take what they are doing to the system and hope they stay on track not to devalue resale much.

By the standard articulated above, all of HGVC has been poorly executed since the begining?

What would really upset me about the merger would be a devaluation of resale that bestowed a bunch of meaningful advantages on retail only purchases.

To me, it is a good thing that what they are hocking as big advantages to making a retail purchase really don’t amount to anything.

I don’t personally like people being taken advantage of on the sales floor. But timeshares have not been clean on that front for as long as I have paid attention.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I wonder if the easier membership will come with time. The 2 systems are so different from each other, I believe this is the only way they could get the ball rolling and take advantage of the desire for new locations right now. The Marriott/Vistana integration is still being worked on and it’s 3 or 4 years after it’s been announced? Trying to integrate a trust system into a deeded system must have some very sticky legal issues. It’s why you have the shortened Max booking window and the loyalty searches that happen at 9 months - They don’t want to disrupt the deeded rights we owners have. Some with the trust booking windows. It disappoints me in the money grabbing they are doing.



I would like to think something better will be hammered out at a later date. I also thought the bHilton product would eventually be integrated with HGVC, much like Ritz-Carlton was integrated with MVC, and I’ve been wrong in that thought process. In fact, I really don’t have a great track record guessing what these companies will or won’t do.

It just seems to me that Hilton has rushed this product to market. Initially I was impressed with their aggressive timeline. Of course I also thought that the buy in would be far less expensive than it’s proving to be. I also felt the ability to cross book wouldn’t be hamstrung with what I consider to be a horribly short window.

Maybe this works for the younger/newer generation of timeshare owners? Perhaps the long booking windows are proving to be to much to overcome with the younger crowd or the traditional traveler that plans, books and travels within a 2 or 3 month window? Maybe I’m just old and outdated.

The Marriott/Vistana merger is taking longer than I felt it would take. Again, there’s my horrible track record of speculating about the future. OTOH it’s looking like the combined system will be more user friendly to all of their owners and, here’s the big plus, they’re not punishing existing owners by demanding a kings ransom to use the combined systems. If they are planning a buy in fee/process, that tidbit has been kept under wraps. It may be taking a lot longer, but if that’s what it takes to get it right then I’m all for it. The hiccups with their website are maddening though.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

escanoe said:


> I will take what they are doing to the system and hope they stay on track not to devalue resale much.
> 
> By the standard articulated above, all of HGVC has been poorly executed since the begining?
> 
> ...



I do believe Hilton has done a poorer job of expanding their product than the other major players in the timeshare world. It really doesn’t feel like an integrated system, but more like poorly fitting pieces to a puzzle that don’t quite fit. It’s not really one system. Just several systems tossed together with expensive adapters that don’t necessarily work to maximize value for their owners.

I guess I was hoping for one system or, at the very least, a blended system that was workable. The sticking point is the huge valence in booking windows of 9 months (HGVC club season), 10 months (DRI’s THE Club window), 12 months (HGVC and DRI deed week booking window) and 13 months (DRI home trust booking window).

My biggest disappointment is that 6 month window. That’s a deal breaker for us. I had hoped to regain access to Sedona Summit. That’s not going to happen thru Hilton without the outlay of a huge chunk of change.

Our initial purchase was in 2002 and we upgraded thru Hilton in 2004. After that Hilton did little to nothing of interest to us, so there has been no stair stepping in the program via retail upgrades. The price difference from our last purchase to upgrade to Maui would have been astronomical. Even upgrading to a premium unit like a 1 bedroom Grand Plus or Premier unit at Elara, we’re we’ve been staying these last several years, was laughable.

I suppose if we were relatively new Hilton owners, a retail upgrade wouldn’t be to big of a bite to chew assuming there was an upgrade that was worth it (Vegas to Maui for instance). This is likely the market they’ll target hardest with older owners who haven’t purchased in a long time being much lower priority. Perhaps a step above resale buyers when it comes to owner update offers? 

Honestly, if the buy in price was closer to $500 I’d probably bite, just to keep the option open despite the short booking window. At that price I’d roll the dice and take a chance. But $7,000? Thanks, but if I want access to DRI resorts I’ll just pay far less on the resale market and call it a day. So we’re back to poorly planned or thought out unless they’re going to force the resale market prices for DRI trust ownerships up by exercising ROFR and nearly all transactions. If that’s the case it may be a windfall for DRI owners looking to get out.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 10, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I would like to think something better will be hammered out at a later date. I also thought the bHilton product would eventually be integrated with HGVC, much like Ritz-Carlton was integrated with MVC, and I’ve been wrong in that thought process. In fact, I really don’t have a great track record guessing what these companies will or won’t do.
> 
> It just seems to me that Hilton has rushed this product to market. Initially I was impressed with their aggressive timeline. Of course I also thought that the buy in would be far less expensive than it’s proving to be. I also felt the ability to cross book wouldn’t be hamstrung with what I consider to be a horribly short window.
> 
> ...



I agree with most of what you are saying, however I completely disagree with your last paragraph as a Vistana resale owner. It appears that we will be required to buy into the system to gain access. No different than MAX. But what's worse, our 12 month owner inventory pool will be reduced with enrollment deposits rendering Staroption trading at 8 months devalued.  That is a devaluation of my deed-granted mandatory Vistana ownership. At least Max keeps owner deed home week reservations intact at 12 months (as it should be).

User friendliness? IMHO the MVC system is much more complicated because we not only have StarOptions but we now have 12 months points enrollment which adds different deadlines and inventory pools which compete with deeded owner views, peak season reservations, and inventory rights.

And as you recognized, the MVC reservation system has been a disaster. Look at the Vistana forum and many threads are about how MVC is bungling integration and people cannot make their reservations, arrange guest certs, and get new deeds recorded correctly. They've had almost 4 years to plan for this - no excuse.  At least with Max we are not at a year yet - I know there have been hiccups but they are moving quickly - let's see what happens.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 10, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I agree with most of what you are saying, however I completely disagree with your last paragraph as a Vistana resale owner. It appears that we will be required to buy into the system to gain access. No different than MAX. But what's worse, our 12 month owner inventory pool will be reduced with enrollment deposits rendering Staroption trading at 8 months devalued.  That is a devaluation of my deed-granted mandatory Vistana ownership. At least Max keeps owner deed home week reservations intact at 12 months (as it should be).
> 
> User friendliness? IMHO the MVC system is much more complicated because we not only have StarOptions but we now have 12 months points enrollment which adds different deadlines and inventory pools which compete with deeded owner views, peak season reservations, and inventory rights.
> 
> And as you recognized, the MVC reservation system has been a disaster. Look at the Vistana forum and many threads are about how MVC is bungling integration and people cannot make their reservations, arrange guest certs, and get new deeds recorded correctly. They've had almost 4 years to plan for this - no excuse.  At least with Max we are not at a year yet - I know there have been hiccups but they are moving quickly - let's see what happens.



That’s not unusual for resale owners. Even MVC resale owners need to buy something new to participate in points. DRI restricts resale owners booking rights as well. Hilton has been the exception to the rule when it comes to resale owners having access.

In this case, with Hilton, even the retail buyers are required to make another purchase or pay a pretty high joiner fee.

As to the inventory pool declining, that’s an assumption and speculation. There were similar worries when Marriott started their DC program, but has largely never materialized. Owners wanting to stay within the weeks system feared they wouldn’t be able to trade Marriott to Marriott anymore or even reserve their home weeks. This was salesmen lies and fear mongering, trying to get people to buy more. I believe it will prove to be the same this time around.

It’s been 10 years. The only issue we’ve had has been reserving our home week for one of the most popular weeks in our season. Even then it’s been more a matter of not having a choice between all of the check in days. This past year we couldn’t book our full unit and had to book the master suite and deposit the studio. But this is after 10 years and we’re just returning to normal after CoVid. So this one time might have been an anomaly.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 10, 2022)

@dougp26364 It's a slippery slope. Just because it may not have affected you, doesn't mean MVC won't resist the urge to take prime weeks for more profitable purposes and leave the scraps to deeded owners. All it takes is a new management regime.  What's the average tenure of a CEO? About 6.5 years?  In addition, MVC never had a StarOptions points program so it is impossible to compare. 

I am glad HGVC is not going there.


----------



## GT75 (Jul 10, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> But the most irritating thing is that as of now (and for the past couple months) I have NO elite discount or credit on OS (presumably until Max goes live). Wouldn’t it make sense to maintain the existing status until the program actually starts? Thanks HGVC!


I am still wondering myself which benefits you will gain and lose by going with HGV Max.    I am waiting for the dust to settle (program to actually be rolled out) before I will even evaulate.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 11, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @dougp26364 It's a slippery slope. Just because it may not have affected you, doesn't mean MVC won't resist the urge to take prime weeks for more profitable purposes and leave the scraps to deeded owners. All it takes is a new management regime.  What's the average tenure of a CEO? About 6.5 years?  In addition, MVC never had a StarOptions points program so it is impossible to compare.
> 
> I am glad HGVC is not going there.



The DC has had an affect on inventory, just not the earthquake, landscape altering realignment of the stars that all us Chicken Little owners feared it would. I don’t believe Starwood/Westin/Vistana owners are going to see major shifts in inventory as feared, but my track record speaks for itself, it’s not very good.

If you could go back to the beginning, I was very negative towards the DC. Almost everything I feared would happen, didn’t. I thought I’d never leave weeks reservations, and yet the only weeks reservation I’ve made in years has been a home resort reservation. Otherwise I’ve been using points. Go figure? I was wrong.

Getting it right is why it’s taking so long. Longer than I thought, but I’d rather they get it right.

Hilton, OTOH, seems to be in a huge rush. Maybe this 6 month window won’t be the draw back I believe it will be. Maybe lots of owners will spend thousands upgrading their weeks or spend thousands as a joiner fee and be happy with the results. Maybe I’m just old and out of date with modern reservation practices.

Granted mixing a program that is weeks based with a points overlay and another program that is a combination of straight weeks deeds, weeks in a points overlay system and pure trust ownerships wouldn’t be easy, but the costs to join and the limitations seem extreme IMHO. Hilton took a huge bite that would be very difficult for any company to chew. To do it right, they’d have to line out all the consulted ownerships that make up DRI, and that would be likely impossible without additional huge costs.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 11, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Hilton, OTOH, seems to be in a huge rush. Maybe this 6 month window won’t be the draw back I believe it will be. Maybe lots of owners will spend thousands upgrading their weeks or spend thousands as a joiner fee and be happy with the results. Maybe I’m just old and out of date with modern reservation practices.
> 
> Granted mixing a program that is weeks based with a points overlay and another program that is a combination of straight weeks deeds, weeks in a points overlay system and pure trust ownerships wouldn’t be easy, but the costs to join and the limitations seem extreme IMHO. Hilton took a huge bite that would be very difficult for any company to chew. To do it right, they’d have to line out all the consulted ownerships that make up DRI, and that would be likely impossible without additional huge costs.


I believe coming out of Covid, they needed sales and they had to turn the big expenditure of the DRI acquisition into some short term cash. Everything they are putting into place either can be undone or can still exist if a different system is put into place. They have taken the nickel and diming of fees and eliminated them with Max as well. 

An example are the loyalty searches. They are a way to allow those not knowledgeable enough to make the reservations they want (or don’t have the desire to work for them). They can be an advantage to those that use them properly. Gives you a reason to purchase more and might be the best reason to purchase from HGVC while still keeping the home week reservation advantage intact. Gives new developer bought deeds an advantage over the resale owners. These searches can still exist in a new program with a combined HGVC/DRI. 

I have thought about how Max will be rolled out and what it really is and it’s a stopgap. In the end, I believe HGVC will find a away room merge the systems, but there’s a bunch of legal issues that have to be dealt with, and those all take time. I think it’s the only way HGVC can truly make the DRI acquisition for its stockholders.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 11, 2022)

@dougp26364 I hope you are right about MVC. Although I would like free enrollment into the system, we bought MVC/Vistana where we like to stay (Maui OF) so we will rarely trade; if enrollment is not free or < $1000 it doesn't make economic sense.

This sounds like your situation with HGVC with only one deed and MVC as your points trading platform. The economics of requal makes sense if you have multiple resales or deeds for trading in that system. HGVC is our points trading platform with multiple traders so paying 7k for MAX may make sense (or not) for our situation to maximize our trading options.

I believe the best portfolios have 1 - 3 "buy where you want to stay" deed(s) plus some points traders - all enrolled deeds.


----------



## audirt (Jul 15, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> 8. After August 1st, HGVC owners will have to pay the HGV Max purchase price (in addition to any purchase or upgrade) to be included in HGV Max



Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I'm confused and have questions.

After August 1st, are HGVC owners only able to buy into Max if they pay the Max purchase price ($7k) _and_ a new purchase?  Or is Max membership always available to purchase for ~$7k, no new purchase required?  (In other words, buyers receiving Max free with purchase are ending on August 1?)

The _only_ feature of Max that has any appeal to me is the loyalty search option.  We like to go skiing every 2-3 years and if the only way I'm likely to be able to reserve Breck or Park City is through Max, then so be it (grumble grumble).  But we already have all the points we need and I have zero interest in purchasing a new timeshare.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 15, 2022)

audirt said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I'm confused and have questions.
> 
> After August 1st, are HGVC owners only able to buy into Max if they pay the Max purchase price ($7k) _and_ a new purchase?  Or is Max membership always available to purchase for ~$7k, no new purchase required?  (In other words, buyers receiving Max free with purchase are ending on August 1?)
> 
> The _only_ feature of Max that has any appeal to me is the loyalty search option.  We like to go skiing every 2-3 years and if the only way I'm likely to be able to reserve Breck or Park City is through Max, then so be it (grumble grumble).  But we already have all the points we need and I have zero interest in purchasing a new timeshare.


Well, it is all speculation so far.  There is the $7k fee in the reference guide and Mark Wang, the CEO, has said that the $7k fee will be available without a new purchase to existing owners.  Who knows how that will affect future owners with resales.  New retail owners or newly upgraded ownerships, are automatically in Max.  There is supposed to be an announcement later this  year, probably August timeframe about it. I suspect, the reason that there has not been any info and the reason that folks who bought/upgraded between January 14th and April 4th that can opt in but haven't gotten the official opt in email yet, is because there isn't anything to opt into yet.  Right now, there aren't any HVC properties available in Max and in some way, if they are Elite, they can lose some benefits.  I think when it becomes real and the integration is complete, there will be a big announcement.


----------



## rdw95 (Jul 15, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Hilton, OTOH, seems to be in a huge rush. Maybe this 6 month window won’t be the draw back I believe it will be.



We were told and shown statistics that 70% of reservations within the HGVC system were made at 6 months or less.  We have to remember most of us here on TUG do not fall into that category, but it seems most people don't plan as far away as we do.  I have noticed that during our last stay in Italy, and as we are here in Park City now, many here too did indeed book at 6 months or less (I have asked several people nicely ).  I was also told that if one was an elite owner, joining HGVMax would still include one's Elete benefits as well.


----------



## PigsDad (Jul 15, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> We were told and shown statistics that 70% of reservations within the HGVC system were made at 6 months or less.


Looking at the availability of the most popular resorts at 6 months out, I would say that 95% or more of the reservations for those resorts are made greater than 6 months out (they are usually all reserved out by 6 months).  So not saying that the sales person's statistics are wrong across the whole HGV system, but if you want a more popular place during prime season, that 70% number means absolutely nothing.

Kurt


----------



## dayooper (Jul 15, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Looking at the availability of the most popular resorts at 6 months out, I would say that 95% or more of the reservations for those resorts are made greater than 6 months out (they are usually all reserved out by 6 months).  So not saying that the sales person's statistics are wrong across the whole HGV system, but if you want a more popular place during prime season, that 70% number means absolutely nothing.
> 
> Kurt



Ugh! Sales weasels cherry picking stats again. Try getting Hilton Head at 6 months. Unless it’s a canceled reservation, it ain’t happening.


----------



## brp (Jul 15, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Ugh! Sales weasels cherry picking stats again. Try getting Hilton Head at 6 months. Unless it’s a canceled reservation, it ain’t happening.



Yup. I can find all units available at W. 57th in early January (within 6 months), for example 

Cheers.


----------



## frank808 (Jul 15, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Ugh! Sales weasels cherry picking stats again. Try getting Hilton Head at 6 months. Unless it’s a canceled reservation, it ain’t happening.


Try to get Lagoon tower in 6 months. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## escanoe (Jul 15, 2022)

The availability and rules of HGV Max at any given time are dependent on what comes out of moving lips during sales presentations. If you believe what is said, buy in and please tell the rest of it how it works once the program is past the vapor stage.


----------



## SmithOp (Jul 15, 2022)

audirt said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I'm confused and have questions.
> 
> After August 1st, are HGVC owners only able to buy into Max if they pay the Max purchase price ($7k) _and_ a new purchase? Or is Max membership always available to purchase for ~$7k, no new purchase required? (In other words, buyers receiving Max free with purchase are ending on August 1?)
> 
> The _only_ feature of Max that has any appeal to me is the loyalty search option. We like to go skiing every 2-3 years and if the only way I'm likely to be able to reserve Breck or Park City is through Max, then so be it (grumble grumble). But we already have all the points we need and I have zero interest in purchasing a new timeshare.


I thought I read here that the $7k deal was for people that had purchased from HGV, not resale owners, so in that case you might have to make a new developer purchase.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


----------



## GT75 (Jul 16, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I thought I read here that the $7k deal was for people that had purchased from HGV, not resale owners, so in that case you might have to make a new developer purchase.


This is my understanding.    But, I think that someone could “upgrade” there resale purchase to retail during an owner’s update.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 16, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> We were told and shown statistics that 70% of reservations within the HGVC system were made at 6 months or less.  We have to remember most of us here on TUG do not fall into that category, but it seems most people don't plan as far away as we do.  I have noticed that during our last stay in Italy, and as we are here in Park City now, many here too did indeed book at 6 months or less (I have asked several people nicely ).  I was also told that if one was an elite owner, joining HGVMax would still include one's Elete benefits as well.



Of course 90% of statistics are made up on the fly 

Maybe that’s what their numbers say or, maybe that’s the nice laminated piece of sales misinformations they’re peddling. I can’t tell you the number of t8mes I’ve been presented with official looking information that turned out to be horse lucky. For instance, Disney has bought up all this land and is building a theme park in Branson, MO. Orlando is the most requested destination and therefore has the strongest trade power for timeshares. Your investment will in a timeshare will pay for itself in savings in X number of years.

I’m not saying the statistics you were shown aren’t true. I know a LOT of non-timeshare owners who book vacations less than 6 months in advance. I haven’t met a lot of timeshare owners who book less than 6 months out with the exception of those who manipulate the last minute market to stretch their ownership value. I do know from personal experience, the most desirable destinations and best views are booked farther in advance of 6 months. Practical and personal experince from owning for 24 has taught me this lesson. Nothing a salesman shows me in laminated paper will change hard earned experience.

I would believe the average traveler books within a 6 month window if your including those who rent. I have trouble believing that the average timeshare owner books reservations like the average traveler, and this distinction is why some are extremely disappointed with their ownership and then get hooked by the timeshare exit scammers.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 16, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> Of course 90% of statistics are made up on the fly


91.579% of stats are made up in the fly. Just sayin.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 16, 2022)

dayooper said:


> 91.579% of stats are made up in the fly. Just sayin.



I was soooo close.

Of course, the point being that sales staff isn’t above quoting something that’s pure fiction, so long as it supports their cause. Once you’re past the rescind date, you can’t do a thing if they lied or manipulated the truth just a bit.

this graph indicates the difference between booking and departure for European travelers, and it does indeed indicate the majority book their travel less than 6 months prior to departure. However, this is for ALL travelers, not just timeshare owners. If I was trying to sell a MAX, that’s an important detail I’d leave out.


----------



## GMan82 (Jul 16, 2022)

brp said:


> Yup. I can find all units available at W. 57th in early January (within 6 months), for example
> 
> Cheers.



I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 16, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.


This is correct. The official Max Q&A states that Max for bHC will be the same as when the Club window opens. 59 days for W57, 89 days for other NYC and DC


----------



## dayooper (Jul 16, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.



I think that’s the point of his post. A salesman can show a potential buyer that there’s “availability” even in NYC at 6 months. Without any context or explanation of the booking rules, a quick glance looks like there’s a bunch of high demand places that are easily booked at 6 months. Just another way of cherry picking the stats to encourage someone to purchase.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 17, 2022)

brp said:


> Yup. I can find all units available at W. 57th in early January (within 6 months), for example
> 
> Cheers.



I’d almost bet DRI owners can see Palm Desert weeks in August at 6 months as well, which would be another good example.


----------



## Nowaker (Jul 17, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> thought I read here that the $7k deal was for people that had purchased from HGV, not resale owners, so in that case you might have to make a new developer purchase.


The reading of club rules does not support this and I made a deeper analysis of the legal text a long time ago. (I can't easily find it... Man, how I wish it was a Reddit community instead...) Option 3 - Ala Carte Membership - is available to all legacy club members. The reason they don't sell it yet to anyone (either retail or resale) is HGV Max as such doesn't exist, so you'd pay $7K for nothing. It would temporarily increase their liabilities on balance sheet until it's delivered, and also have some consequences with their payment processors. On the other hand, when they sell you a deed, a promise to give you HGV Max in the future is just that, a promise, but not a liability on the balance sheet. You even sign a waiver that you're buying a deed, not HGV Max. That is an immediate profit for them, and can modify Max as they please with zero risk.


----------



## rdw95 (Jul 17, 2022)

I agree with everyone on the HGV Max issues.  I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles.  

Here is what we did:
-- Park City is one of our properties.  We like to come to Park City, and are currently here for 18 days.  Unfortunately, we have to go home tomorrow. We have enjoyed our morning walks with temps in the 60's and everything PC and the surrounding areas have to offer.
-- We own a 2 week 2BR+ every year week, and a 1BR+ Even year and Odd year contract here in PC.  
-- We always try to get into the 1BR Premier units if available, as we like them.
-- For several reasons, I had always wished that we could combine the Even Year and Odd Year contracts.  I spoke to the home office in Orlando regarding this and the costs of combining the contracts, so I had that data and associated costs.  
-- During our update, I looked into upgrading our 1BR+ even and odd year contracts into a yearly contract of a 1 BR Premier unit if available.  They found one, and presented me the options of trading in the 1BR+ even and odd year contracts and going into a 1 BR Premier every year contract.  
-- I also looked into what resale contracts were on the market.  But, after discussion with my wife, we realized we did not want another contract with the associated maintenance fees.  We currently own 7 weeks with our initial HGVC purchase, plus our resale purchases.
-- After looking at all sides, and the associated costs, I came up with a number in my mind I would be willing to pay to upgrade.
-- I discussed this with the sales associate, and asked him what he could do.
-- He came back to me and presented something, and with no pressure let me think about it and get back to him.
-- We ended up upgrading for what I considered to be a very favorable price point, upgraded from a 1BR+ units to a 1BR Premier every year contract, ended up with more yearly points with the same MF, and the points started in 2022.  This allows us to book our PC unit 1 year ahead, and not worry about 9 month availability.  As the popularity of PC continues to increase for the summer months, this assures us of summer availability and the type of unit we want.
-- For us, HGV Max was just icing on the cake.  We did not pay any additional for it.  It did not figure into the discussion, although it was reviewed by the salesman.

We will now see how it (HGV Max) works out.  Bottom line is we got what we wanted, at what I consider a very reasonable price point for what we got (and I am very conservative!), and am happy.  If HGV Max does not add any value, we have all of the HGVC things we had before the purchase.

One of my quotes I have told many of my friends is this:  "I have never seen a Hurse with a luggage rack on top", and you can't take it with you.  We purchase where we want to go, and have picked up some excellent values in the resale markets.  We plan on enjoying every point every year as long as we can.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 17, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> I agree with everyone on the HGV Max issues.  I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles.
> 
> Here is what we did:
> -- Park City is one of our properties.  We like to come to Park City, and are currently here for 18 days.  Unfortunately, we have to go home tomorrow. We have enjoyed our morning walks with temps in the 60's and everything PC and the surrounding areas have to offer.
> ...



Sounds like a reasonable deal to me. The last time we attended an update was for a similar reason. We were interested in upgrading our 2 bedroom LV Blv week to a 1 bedroom Grand Plus week. Unfortunately all the sales person wanted to talk about was a Kingsland downgrade, something neither of us cared about. I couldn’t get her to understand it was about the ability to book 12 months in advance, not all about MF’s. She lost a sale and we’ve continued on without an issue of getting what we want. At this point I’m thinking we’ll stick with what we own.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 18, 2022)

Just reviewing what @rdw95 posted previously and I noticed there are only 3 collections. Was this salesperson saying that the Latin American Collection is going away? Are they combining it with another collection? Just trying to figure out what they are saying.


----------



## GregT (Jul 23, 2022)

rdw95 said:


> 13. HGV Max owners will be able to have "Loyalty Search Requests".  What this means is "that eligible members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability.  This search can be for a resort or region, date or date range, any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival.  Should availability open, the _active searches_ are fulfilled through an automated process based on the HGV Max tier status".  The way all this was explained to us was that the request would be put in, and filled once the 9 month window opened.  He went on to say this would be filled first automatically before others trying to make reservations at the 9 month window would have a chance.



Thank you for the update, that was an interesting summary.

I find the Loyalty Searches feature to be interesting and believe that it is limited to people at higher tiers -- practically speaking, I'm not sure that is going to impact us.   I would suspect at the 9 month mark, the most highly demanded weeks (like Lagoon Tower on Presidents Day) don't exist in a 7 day reservation, and thus the Loyalty Search won't hit.   It will hit on Kings Land/Grand Waikikian where there is plenty of capacity already, meaning a Loyalty Search wouldn't have been required to get the reservation (except to protect the forgetful owner, which is me sometimes.)

Do any TUGgers view the Loyalty Search differently?

Best,

Greg


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 23, 2022)

GregT said:


> Thank you for the update, that was an interesting summary.
> 
> I find the Loyalty Searches feature to be interesting and believe that it is limited to people at higher tiers -- practically speaking, I'm not sure that is going to impact us.   I would suspect at the 9 month mark, the most highly demanded weeks (like Lagoon Tower on Presidents Day) don't exist in a 7 day reservation, and thus the Loyalty Search won't hit.   It will hit on Kings Land/Grand Waikikian where there is plenty of capacity already, meaning a Loyalty Search wouldn't have been required to get the reservation (except to protect the forgetful owner, which is me sometimes.)
> 
> ...


Just to add though. We don't know if the loyalty search will be only for HVC properties or for HVC and HGVC.  Since this is an existing function in DRI, it may be that HGV Max members can use that for reserving in DRI/HVC to align to their program benefits but not the other way around.


----------



## GT75 (Jul 23, 2022)

I also agree with @HuskerATL.   We really need to see what is actually implemented.


----------



## dayooper (Jul 23, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I also agree with @HuskerATL.   We really need to see what is actually implemented.



Supposedly, we will find out Friday as that’s when Max will be rolled out.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 23, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Supposedly, we will find out Friday as that’s when Max will be rolled out.


August is the rumor but August 1st? I will believe it when someone in Max tells us that they see HVC properties available.


----------



## Nowaker (Jul 23, 2022)

Latest info on loyalty search:





Source: FB group https://m.facebook.com/groups/1962839810567518/permalink/2027707347414097/ - after Centum+ user expressed his happiness with 10 month window, and I gave him a red pill, he then double checked with the salesweasel to confirm that.


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 23, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Latest info on loyalty search:
> 
> View attachment 60817
> 
> Source: FB group https://m.facebook.com/groups/1962839810567518/permalink/2027707347414097/ - after Centum+ user expressed his happiness with 10 month window, and I gave him a red pill, he then double checked with the salesweasel to confirm that.


But, I still don't see if it will be for HGVC and/or HVC reservations. It may be only for HVC reservations since that aligns to their existing benefits but not ours. We will know once the program launches though.


----------



## NOLA47 (Jul 23, 2022)

I read earlier that even if you buy into hgvMax, you still will not be entitled to book the diamond EMBARC properties.  Is that still the case?


----------



## dandjane1 (Jul 23, 2022)

*I posted the below comment back in June on another thread, but it certainly seems that the process is WORSE than slimy. We were told that HGV Max went "Live" on 04 April 2022. Fasten your seat belts - I doubt the ride will be pleasant!
Quote: 
According to the sales weasel at our recent "presentation" at a Hilton Resort, we, as Diamond owners can
always use our points at DRI or DRI/HGV resorts, but not at HGV /Hilton resorts, unless you buy more DRI points,
which will cost ya $8 each for 5K points, or $40 K. This opens the door to use HGV Max. The "benefits" of HGV
Max are that your points can now be used at Hilton, but you'll be a minimum member, since no Elite Level
of DRI transfers. Eventually, the DRI Trust is intended to be broken/abrogated/done away with. The bum's rush then will
be to buy more points so as to "bring over" all your DRIn points into 100% Hilton points. Slimy all around.
This is only my understanding - YMMV.* 
*Unquote.*


----------



## HuskerATL (Jul 23, 2022)

dandjane1 said:


> *I posted the below comment back in June on another thread, but it certainly seems that the process is WORSE than slimy. We were told that HGV Max went "Live" on 04 April 2022. Fasten your seat belts - I doubt the ride will be pleasant!
> Quote:
> According to the sales weasel at our recent "presentation" at a Hilton Resort, we, as Diamond owners can
> always use our points at DRI or DRI/HGV resorts, but not at HGV /Hilton resorts, unless you buy more DRI points,
> ...


Interesting since I have read and heard first hand in a sales update that HGVC is moving to points and away from deeds so, if that is the case, I would think it would move more toward the DRI structure.


----------



## goaliedave (Jul 23, 2022)

Hurry! Only free until August 1st then $7k! lol typical sales talk, don't fall for it. Diamond members lose nothing, still book 13 months out, no new reasons to buy Hilton.


----------



## StapelmanMO (Jul 23, 2022)

Absolutely.  We have always scored reservations at Hawaii Hiltons through RCI through other timeshares we had.  Hilton appears to do block releases in under six months.   The killer for us is that joining HGVMAX apparently wipes out DRI Club Combo that we use to leverage our other timeshares to get to the Centum level.   Why would we want to pay to get out of that benefit?


----------



## nobodyhasthisname2 (Jul 31, 2022)

I feel like the biggest issue with MAX is going to be the resorts that HGVC members don’t have any lead time for booking into - the 6 month window resorts like the Hokulani and the Grand Islander and for me, the ones I’m most worried about in NYC. Non-MAXers will get access at the same time as MAXers and we’ll all be sitting at our computers at midnight trying to get in where we want to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## daventrina (Jul 31, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> None, for the moment but, at some point down the road when many have been added, it may be nice to have access to them. DRI folks will join no matter what we do so our inventory will be impacted so we may as well impact theirs also. Right now sales folks have been telling folks that they can only join with a purchase so I wanted to hear if they are giving the whole truth... That a $7k fee will be an option later.
> 
> On availability, I haven't really had problems reserving. We have 9 booked this year without too much effort but when Max is functional, reserving in the 6 month window will be more challenging.


Turns out that for us and probably many others with 50,000 points the don’t add more for $7,000 option doesn’t work out because to maintain most of our benefits unchanged one under Max would need 54,000 points


----------



## primeg (Aug 2, 2022)

Is HGV Max live yet? August 1st has come and gone


----------



## RX8 (Aug 2, 2022)

Attended an update a couple of days ago. My only way in to HGV Max was a purchase ($29K for 9280/5800 gold). I asked about a one time fee without purchase and the salesman said he had heard of $7000 buy-in but nothing is in place for that at the moment. The salesman kept pushing the 10 month reservation ability for HGV Max preferred+ and above tiers. The 9280 purchase would have put me at that tier. I’ve seen some older Max tier brochures and this benefit is not listed on those. The brochure he showed me however had that 10 month reservation window benefit listed. The salesman said that 10 month window is good for all properties (Diamond and Hilton) except for the bHC properties. I wish I had taken a photo of the brochure. If it wasn’t on the brochure I wouldn’t have believed him. Anyone else heard of the 10 month priority booking window?

One thing I don’t understand, and it is a concern of mine if I ever want to join HGV Max (as close to free as possible), is how the booking reciprocity works. If i am in HGV Max, would I get to book any and all Diamond resorts or is it limited to only to the number of Diamond members who also joined Max? As another poster brought up, this could potentially result in an out of balance situation if more owners are trying to make reservations than there are actual reservations available. The salesman had no answer to this question and danced around it.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

RX8 said:


> Attended an update a couple of days ago. My only way in to HGV Max was a purchase ($29K for 9280/5800 gold). I asked about a one time fee without purchase and the salesman said he had heard of $7000 buy-in but nothing is in place for that at the moment. The salesman kept pushing the 10 month reservation ability for HGV Max preferred+ and above tiers. The 9280 purchase would have put me at that tier. I’ve seen some older Max tier brochures and this benefit is not listed on those. The brochure he showed me however had that 10 month reservation window benefit listed. The salesman said that 10 month window is good for all properties (Diamond and Hilton) except for the bHC properties. I wish I had taken a photo of the brochure. If it wasn’t on the brochure I wouldn’t have believed him. Anyone else heard of the 10 month priority booking window?
> 
> One thing I don’t understand, and it is a concern of mine if I ever want to join HGV Max (as close to free as possible), is how the booking reciprocity works. If i am in HGV Max, would I get to book any and all Diamond resorts or is it limited to only to the number of Diamond members who also joined Max? As another poster brought up, this could potentially result in an out of balance situation if more owners are trying to make reservations than there are actual reservations available. The salesman had no answer to this question and danced around it.


If you wanted in, you could buy a cheap resale and then pay the $7k fee when it becomes available later which would be a cheaper route.  I don't know for sure that all resale will come in but when I was at my last update in July, the salesperson told me that since I am Elite Premier then I would come in as Premier + so all of our points would come in...and I have mostly resale.  I am not sure that I buy it but that is what he said....we didn't do it.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 2, 2022)

primeg said:


> Is HGV Max live yet? August 1st has come and gone ⁉



1. Never believe a salesman when your given a date
2. Always ask “What year?” when they do try to tell you a date.

Right now the sales teams are just making stuff up and putting arbitrary dates out there trying to convince people to buy now. They want to create that sense of urgency so you’ll make $30,000 impulse purchase.


----------



## RX8 (Aug 2, 2022)

primeg said:


> Is HGV Max live yet? August 1st has come and gone



I was told a few days ago by the salesman that it was beginning August 1st but even he said he wasn’t sure if it was going to happen. He was trying to get me to buy mostly with the line that prices were going up as well as the value of the 10 month reservation window for all my bookings (versus 6 months for HGV Max and 9 months for HGVC club bookings).

Edited:  HGV’s website says it starts late 2022. I don’t consider August late in the year so maybe it has been delayed. 









						Earn More Rewards with Hilton Grand Vacations Membership Tiers
					

Take advantage of all the benefits of timeshare, and check out the available upgrades at Hilton Grand Vacations.




					www.hiltongrandvacations.com


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

RX8 said:


> I was told a few days ago by the salesman that it was beginning August 1st but even he said he wasn’t sure if it was going to happen. He was trying to get me to buy mostly with the line that prices were going up as well as the value of the 10 month reservation window (versus 6 months for HGV Max and 9 months for HGVC club bookings.


He is talking about the loyalty search request which, could, allow you to set up a search at 10 months but not book until 9. Due to the homeweek window, I don't think they can book at 10 plus, I am not convinced that it is for HGVC but really for HVC properties since they get a 6 month window to reserve in HGVC.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

RX8 said:


> I was told a few days ago by the salesman that it was beginning August 1st but even he said he wasn’t sure if it was going to happen. He was trying to get me to buy mostly with the line that prices were going up as well as the value of the 10 month reservation window for all my bookings (versus 6 months for HGV Max and 9 months for HGVC club bookings).


BTW, this is from the HGV Max FAQs: 
*Will HGV Max impact availability for existing Club Members who do not buy in to the program?*
Your Home Week Reservation Window remains unchanged, and HGV Max will have no impact on your ability to reserve your Home Week. For Members with Home Resort or Hilton Club priority, there will also be no impact on a Member’s ability to make reservations during these reservation windows. HGV Max reservations can only be made after the Club reservation window and starting six months or less before the check-out date.


----------



## brp (Aug 2, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He is talking about the loyalty search request which, could, allow you to set up a search at 10 months but not book until 9. Due to the homeweek window, I don't think they can book at 10 plus, I am not convinced that it is for HGVC but really for HVC properties since they get a 6 month window to reserve in HGVC.



So, for "search at 10, book at 6," what does the search actually mean? It's not like the search could "find" anything that far out because some HGVC member could snap i up before the 6 month window opens. So, the implications of this "search" are still unclear (at least to me).

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

brp said:


> So, for "search at 10, book at 6," what does the search actually mean? It's not like the search could "find" anything that far out because some HGVC member could snap i up before the 6 month window opens. So, the implications of this "search" are still unclear (at least to me).
> 
> Cheers.


Me too but I assume that it means that it will automatically book at the allowed time. There is mention in the documents about priority booking by Tier status so if two people search the same week at the same resort but one is premier+ and the other is preferred, then the Premier+ gets it.


----------



## RX8 (Aug 2, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He is talking about the loyalty search request which, could, allow you to set up a search at 10 months but not book until 9. Due to the homeweek window, I don't think they can book at 10 plus, I am not convinced that it is for HGVC but really for HVC properties since they get a 6 month window to reserve in HGVC.



Your explanation could be right but he was adamant that Preferred+ and above get 10 month booking rights for all resorts (except the bHC). He could have been blowing smoke but as I said, there was a blurb about the 10 month window on the brochure as one of the Max benefits, the same brochure previously shared here but without that benefit. Wondering if it is possibly a new benefit. I wish I had taken a photo.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

That is why I think it is for HGVC people reserving HVC properties not HVC reserving HGVC. The 10 month window aligns to their booking window plus, you can see the FAQ above.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 2, 2022)

Plus, I don't think the sales people know.


----------



## brp (Aug 2, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Me too but I assume that it means that it will automatically book at the allowed time. There is mention in the documents about priority booking by Tier status so if two people search the same week at the same resort but one is premier+ and the other is preferred, then the Premier+ gets it.



Yup. We've talked about this before and this is where the uncertainty of *exactly* when this happens (something that we will likely never know) matters. Will it happen at T-1second or so, i.e. before exact midnight, so trump as OCD types? Or will it be "about then" with them doing it in tier order, but not the *exact* second so that we can sneak in?

Also, if it is 6 months, then all of us 9 monthers have a big jump in any event. In this case, it's only tiering among MAXers.

Cheers.


----------



## dayooper (Aug 2, 2022)

RX8 said:


> Your explanation could be right but he was adamant that Preferred+ and above get 10 month booking rights for all resorts (except the bHC). He could have been blowing smoke but as I said, there was a blurb about the 10 month window on the brochure as one of the Max benefits, the same brochure previously shared here but without that benefit. Wondering if it is possibly a new benefit. I wish I had taken a photo.



They have been using the 10 month window since April, but it’s really the Loyalty Search at 10 months and then, at 9 months, the highest tier status gets the reservations. That’s how it’s been presented on the club manual (it’s pretty vague so it might not be totally accurate). My guess is it’s also just like a home week and not a club booking.

HGVC salesman has been presenting many whoppers this year. They all range from HGVC specific items like the system going to all points and certain resorts will become available in Max to the old reliables like prices will go up once Max is announced in April, June, August or any date after the recession period and resale won’t be able to use points, just the week you bought. Could those be true? Sure, but until they are announced, I will be very skeptical of anything a sales weasel says.

Just because a salesman is adamant that something is happening doesn’t make it more true. In fact, if any salesman is getting like that, I tend to believe the opposite.


----------



## SmithOp (Aug 2, 2022)

brp said:


> Yup. We've talked about this before and this is where the uncertainty of *exactly* when this happens (something that we will likely never know) matters. Will it happen at T-1second or so, i.e. before exact midnight, so trump as OCD types? Or will it be "about then" with them doing it in tier order, but not the *exact* second so that we can sneak in?
> 
> Also, if it is 6 months, then all of us 9 monthers have a big jump in any event. In this case, it's only tiering among MAXers.
> 
> Cheers.


Here's another thought, us OCD types know to book just 3 day minimum at midnight, then walk the extra days. If the elites are putting in searches for longer than three days we will still beat them to the punch.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


----------



## brp (Aug 2, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> Here's another thought, us OCD types know to book just 3 day minimum at midnight, then walk the extra days. If the elites are putting in searches for longer than three days we will still beat them to the punch.



I've never done this because I have no trouble getting the places we want (W. 57th at 9 months as an owner; anything on the Big Island for any date we've tried and for as much as 6 days so far; some Vegas stuff), but I can see doing this for the harder-to-get places. We know these tricks and most do not.

Cheers.


----------



## Cyberc (Aug 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He is talking about the loyalty search request which, could, allow you to set up a search at 10 months but not book until 9. Due to the homeweek window, I don't think they can book at 10 plus, I am not convinced that it is for HGVC but really for HVC properties since they get a 6 month window to reserve in HGVC.


My understanding from what I read is that Max members can setup the search or request at 10 months out. But can't book until 6 months out. Normally HGVC members can book club 9 months out, if that also means that HGVC members which become Max members can utilize that 10 months search request to grab a reservation at 9 months or will they have to wait until 6 months before the system checks and confirms a reservation I don't know.

I would argue that they would have to wait until 6 months otherwise HGVC members turning max would get a huge upside compared to DRI members turning max. Of course HGVC max members could always just book club starting 9 months out as regular HGVC members would do.

OTOH I could also argue the opposite too that you setup the search at 10 months and then as soon as possible (depending on your ownership) the system will confirm the reservation.



brp said:


> So, for "search at 10, book at 6," what does the search actually mean? It's not like the search could "find" anything that far out because some HGVC member could snap i up before the 6 month window opens. So, the implications of this "search" are still unclear (at least to me).
> 
> Cheers.


I agree its not totally clear how the search request part work, as mention above it could work either way.

We also need to learn if the search is only for 7 consecutive days or if 3 days like the regular club is enough.

Does anyone here know if DRI members always need to book 7 consecutive days or if they could book as little as 1 day?

I think with max members HGV need to have a policy of "one-size-fits-all" so anyone who belongs to Max have the same benefits (only difference is the tier).


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 7, 2022)

DRI Club members could book less than 7 consectuive days; but no less than 3 days.


----------



## youppi (Aug 7, 2022)

from 7.1.4 in https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/us-member-benefits-book-combined_27.pdf, they say "number of nights". So, we should be able to do less than 7 days.
from 7.2.3, they mention that the normal minimum booking is 2 nights. So, I suppose Silver members & up can put a request at 10 months for 2 nights stay.


----------



## mdvesper (Aug 9, 2022)

Just had a "virtual presentation"  where we were given information and allowed to ask questions. We are Diamond owners so this is from that perspective.  We were told that Hilton owners paid 3x times as much as us for their Hilton points. So we could either pay the difference (i.e. 2x Diamond retail price) or take advantage of the (and they wanted us to write this down) "Diamond Legacy Initial Launch One Time Incentive". Of couse the guy giving the presentation couldn't give us any details of costs. We had to wait for the closer. That guy told us we would have to buy an additional 7500 points for $29425 with an increase to our maintenance fees of approx. $1400/year. When we explained that we had plenty of points and were retired, he cut the requirment to 3500 additional points. There was no mention of any way to join without buying more points.  Even though there were some positives to the HGVmax program, we turned down the chance to join.


----------



## csalter2 (Aug 10, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> DRI Club members could book less than 7 consectuive days; but no less than 3 days.



Diamond Club owners can book a minimum of 2 nights.


----------



## csalter2 (Aug 10, 2022)

I believe that the HGV Max program is such a joke.  As a DRI owner, I don’t see the real value for us to buy into the program.  First of all, many DRI owners have paid a lot for their timeshare.  This nonsense that HGVC people paid so much more than DRI owners is a bunch on salesman gibberish.  Diamond points depending on how many you have come at a pretty penny just like Hilton’s.  I have been to more than one Hilton sales pitch and their asking price is high but with a lot less places to go compared to DRI.  The only thing a DRI owner may be attracted to is the better quality of accommodations but if Hilton is going to rebrand then I don’t see there being a reason for a DRI owner to really buy into the HGV Max.  So the salesman who said HGVC owners paid a lot of money for their timeshares to a DRI owner, needs to bring his nose down a notch of two.  I am sure those DRI owners who are at Centum and Platinum levels would strongly disagree.

I look at it this way, this is a marriage made for a gain for each company.  Diamond needed money and Hilton needed more locations.  It’s just that simple to me. This is a marriage of convenience.  I never liked Hilton because they did not have a lot of properties and the ones they had were concentrated in a few locations. Who wants to go to the same places all of the time?  That would be the attraction for current HGVC owners in my opinion. The ability to travel to more destinations. However, at six months out both Diamond and Hilton owners will have difficulty in making reservations at highly demanded resorts during prime seasons. That will be the cause of lots of frustration.  At six months out most inventory is gone at popular locations during highly demanded dates.

Personally, I find no value in HGV Max.  I use my Diamond timeshare for places in which Marriott can only take me through a hotel. I paid for more than a hotel. I want a kitchen, space, a living room and a washer and dryer.  I love DRI’s 13 and 10 month windows to make my reservations.  If Hilton owners come in later, that’s no sweat off of my back.  Diamond already rents units out on Expedia, Booking.com and other hotel websites before I can reserve my units at 13 and 10 months out so bring on HGVC owners at six months.  I know it’s unsold inventory they are renting, but my point is it makes no difference.

Just my take on it.


----------



## ocdb8r (Aug 10, 2022)

I agree with many of these posts.  I have looked at the system over and over again and watched these threads and I fail to see what an existing HGVC or an existing Diamond owner would want from HGV Max.  The only "benefits" it offers are at the elite levels (which are not deeded or guaranteed and are actually pretty minimal).  If you had the money to invest and were interested in accessing the "other" system (depending on what you currently own) you get so much more buying something resale in the other system and maintaining two memberships.  Better guaranteed booking windows and way more value points wise.  For existing owner "upgrades" I think HGV totally missed the mark on product development.  The only advantage I can think this whole merger offered is access to a "points" product for HGV to sell lower cost packages (to new owners) than they could offer/devise from the weeks based HGVC products.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 10, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> I agree with many of these posts.  I have looked at the system over and over again and watched these threads and I fail to see what an existing HGVC or an existing Diamond owner would want from HGV Max.  The only "benefits" it offers are at the elite levels (which are not deeded or guaranteed and are actually pretty minimal).  If you had the money to invest and were interested in accessing the "other" system (depending on what you currently own) you get so much more buying something resale in the other system and maintaining two memberships.  Better guaranteed booking windows and way more value points wise.  For existing owner "upgrades" I think HGV totally missed the mark on product development.  The only advantage I can think this whole merger offered is access to a "points" product for HGV to sell lower cost packages (to new owners) than they could offer/devise from the weeks based HGVC products.


The only disadvantage to buying into both sides is two buckets but you would get the best of both booking windows which Max misses.  The cost to "upgrade" into Max just isn't worth it, in my opinion.


----------



## TJALB (Aug 12, 2022)

RDW95. We also attended the owners update and we are  previous DRI owners.  We upgraded at $8.00 per point in order to get into the HGV-Max program.  Sales person was not at all pushy and even told us we didn’t have to buy anything if we wanted to use our DRI as we always have.  But, since the point amount is temporarily discounted we decided to go ahead and upgrade into HGV-Max. We purchased our DRI here at the TUG resale market so, we didn’t have a bunch of money into the TS anyway.  Also, we received all the same info that you stated above.  Sounds like maybe they were possibly being honest this time.  This is the first pleasant experience we have experienced at an “owners update” meeting.  Thank you for the detailed accounting of your meeting.  Much appreciated!


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 12, 2022)

TJALB said:


> RDW95. We also attended the owners update and we are  previous DRI owners.  We upgraded at $8.00 per point in order to get into the HGV-Max program.  Sales person was not at all pushy and even told us we didn’t have to buy anything if we wanted to use our DRI as we always have.  But, since the point amount is temporarily discounted we decided to go ahead and upgrade into HGV-Max. We purchased our DRI here at the TUG resale market so, we didn’t have a bunch of money into the TS anyway.  Also, we received all the same info that you stated above.  Sounds like maybe they were possibly being honest this time.  This is the first pleasant experience we have experienced at an “owners update” meeting.  Thank you for the detailed accounting of your meeting.  Much appreciated!


When is Hilton going to release something in black and white print that is official for everyone to read and digest?


----------



## Talent312 (Aug 12, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> When is Hilton going to release something in black and white print that is official for everyone to read and digest?



Don't hold your breath.
They may cover it in The Rules or the "Help" section online for 2023.
But first, they'll need to figure out what it is that they're selling.
.


----------



## jabberwocky (Aug 16, 2022)

Did an owners update at Elara. Not sure why they invited me as I only have a resale unit, but I figured $125 was okay for just me to attend rather than sitting by the pool for an hour.

Salespersons angle was to get me to make my resale “legitimate” by buying an additional deed. Offer was $20k for 3600 points at Elara (I believe it was a studio). Could also have gone with a EOY for $13k.

according to the sales guy there were a few max changes:

- resale owners could only use their home week that was deeded (asked for this in writing - nothing provided)

- Max has no booking fees and those are going up to $129 (although he backtracked to $99 if it was online).

- we will have more than 200 resorts we can book with our points - of course no mention of the 6 month window. 

He seemed a bit perturbed that I had signed up just to get an update on Max and made me sit the extra 30 mins until the “quality control” guy came to get me check out. Wasn’t a total loss as I was able to clear out several emails while waiting.


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 16, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> resale owners could only use their home week that was deeded


I call BS on this.  points are points....and will continue to spend the same.  We will see what booking fees go to in the next reference guide but, for us EP, they are free.  

Did he give you a timeline of when the 200 would be available to reserve?  In the next decade?  I find it interesting how that number jumps around though.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jabberwocky (Aug 16, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I call BS on this.  points are points....and will continue to spend the same.  We will see what booking fees go to in the next reference guide but, for us EP, they are free.
> 
> Did he give you a timeline of when the 200 would be available to reserve?  In the next decade?  I find it interesting how that number jumps around though.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


I called him on it as well - so probably the reason he made me sit longer.

No timeline was given. I think he figured he was screwed when I told him I would just dump my deed if they made it deeded week only (Vistana is our primary). I only paid $1500 for our 2BR plat at the BLVD, so I should be able to get at least that much out of it.


----------



## Nowaker (Aug 16, 2022)

@jabberwocky Your experience with Elara matches mine. I find them the worst one among HGVC owned and operated resorts. (From what I see on Facebook groups, only Strand Capital developed properties are worse than Elara)


----------



## HuskerATL (Aug 16, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> so probably the reason he made me sit longer


yes, my wife almost hits me each time that I open my mouth in those meetings about stuff like this......she is like, "just sit there, keep your mouth shut, and lets get out of here"


----------



## escanoe (Aug 16, 2022)

If you are 100% (non-UK) resale, Strand will not waste their time presenting to you. 



Nowaker said:


> @jabberwocky Your experience with Elara matches mine. I find them the worst one among HGVC owned and operated resorts. (From what I see on Facebook groups, only Strand Capital developed properties are worse than Elara)


----------



## dayooper (Aug 16, 2022)

escanoe said:


> If you are 100% (non-UK) resale, Strand will not waste their time presenting to you.



What a great benefit of owning all resale!


----------



## brp (Aug 16, 2022)

csalter2 said:


> Who wants to go to the same places all of the time?



We do, to an extent. We own in New York. We go 2-3 times a year. Every year. We own in Vegas. We use it on the Big Island. We want to go every year.

So, there are ways that a limited set of locations can work, especially if supplemented with lots of other non-timeshare travel.

And, while DRI has many more locations. We are looking at buying some resale points to use at just two locations. Maui and Kauai. Kauai and Maui. That's it.

So, the "go to a few favorite places often" model is not that uncommon.

Cheers.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Aug 16, 2022)

I am willing to bet that most deeded timeshare owners return to the same places every year. Look at all of the Marriott and Vistana peeps who travel annually to Hawaii, Florida and HHI. We do.

Frankly,  for us many of the additional places are not attractive because too far or been there done that e.g  Florida and East Coast beaches. Branson, Williamsburg, New Jersey golf etc. So not missed.

HGVC much better for NYC, Mexico, Japan, Scotland, Italy, Portugal, Canada (with Embarc).

MVC has Caribbean, France, Spain, Thailand, SF and Boston.

Worldmark has many west coast eg Anaheim, Seattle, Moab, Oregon coast, Sierra foothills ...

Nobody has South America, Hong Kong, China, Croatia, Germany...

It really depends where u want to go.


----------



## csalter2 (Aug 22, 2022)

brp said:


> We do, to an extent. We own in New York. We go 2-3 times a year. Every year. We own in Vegas. We use it on the Big Island. We want to go every year.
> 
> So, there are ways that a limited set of locations can work, especially if supplemented with lots of other non-timeshare travel.
> 
> ...



There are some who do go to the same place.  However, that is not the norm.  If I wanted to stay in the same place, I would buy a place there, but that’s me.  Even as you pointed out that you go to different places.  

I was really talking about Hilton having a limited number of properties and many of them being in the same location as Diamond. If I can get a decent Diamond property that will be rebranded to a Hilton, there will be no need to buy Hilton.  I would find HGV Max more appealing if I were going to have a much more expansive portfolio across the world.


----------

