# Getting around San Francisco without a car



## rickandcindy23 (Dec 22, 2009)

Looks like our trip is on to San Francisco for March.  We are staying at Powell Place at 730 Powell St for six nights.  We are going to take BART from the airport to Powell St., then we will walk from the bus stop to the hotel about six blocks or so.  Are we allowed suitcases on BART?  Do they have a limit on size? 

Are we going to be able to get around to places like Fishermen's Wharf from Powell Place easily enough with public transit?  Denver's system is not great, so I wonder if this will be a lot of walking for us, not that it would kills us to walk.  

Anyway, just wondering what are the must sees in the area, and how to get around to see them?  Any help would be great.


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## KevJan (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes, suitcases are allowed on BART and we found it to be the best public transportation. The trolleys are good too. You shouldn't have any problems getting around with these as well as walking, unless you have walking problems. Rental cars are expensive when you consider what you have to pay for parking as well as finding parking and all the hassles. San Francisco is one of the few places we refuse to have a rental car. Hope you have a great trip!


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2009)

Cindy - SF's transportation is cheap and easy - SF has BART, light rail (MUNI), buses, cable cars, and cabs.  There is a BART station right in the airport.

You are allowed to take any size baggage on BART, but you have to keep it with you and handle it yourself - there is no luggage storage or handlers.

For more info. about transportation and things to do, see my SF travel page.

Here is a picture of the inside of a BART car - there is quite a bit of room for luggage, unless you are traveling during commute time.


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## SherryS (Dec 22, 2009)

We have done SF twice without a car, the last time this past summer.  We each took one checked piece of checked luggage and our carry-ons on BART.  We each bought a one week transportation pass from the luggage pick-up area concierge in the SFO airport, and rode the buses, cable cars, and trolleys unlimited times during the week.  SF is a city easily seen using public transportation.  We also loved the free tours sponsored by City Guides, and planned our week's activities around these tours!  http://www.sfcityguides.org/     Check out the free tours available for your timeframe.  Enjoy!


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## Bill4728 (Dec 22, 2009)

We took the BART downtown then transfer to the ferry for our stay in Sausalito.    Was there 3 days and never needed a car.


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## Jimster (Dec 22, 2009)

*getting there*

Yes, you can get where you want.  However, I would disagree that it is cheap.  It is $16 from the airport to downtown rt.  In Chicago it is $4.50.  I see no need for a car unless you want to travel out to places like Meers Woods.


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## easyrider (Dec 22, 2009)

We used Denises San Francisco travel page for two trips to SF. Both of these times we used public transportaion. The third trip we had my SUV. We saw alot more with a car than without. For a short stay, no car. For a week you could rent by the day and return the car in the evening so you wouldnt have to pay to park it. I get lucky with parking and seemed to have a spot where ever I showed up.


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## Luanne (Dec 22, 2009)

Jimster said:


> I see no need for a car unless you want to travel out to places like Meers Woods.



Do you mean Muir Woods?  Or is there someplace I don't know about?  

I agree that getting around in San Francisco is easy using public transportation.  There are some areas of the city that may be more challenging to see, and definitely if you want to venture outside, like to Muir Woods, Sausalito, Napa or Sonoma, having a car would be a plus.  So, you need to look at what exactly it is you want to see and do while you are here.


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## x3 skier (Dec 22, 2009)

Jimster said:


> Yes, you can get where you want.  However, I would disagree that it is cheap.  It is $16 from the airport to downtown rt.  In Chicago it is $4.50.  I see no need for a car unless you want to travel out to places like Meers Woods.



If you can get a BART Senior Citizen (65yo+) pass (Green or Red Card) at the Info Desk @ SFO, it is quite Cheap. In Nov I got one for $9 and had money left over even after three trips between downtown and SFO.

Cheers


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 22, 2009)

I am pretty excited about this trip, and it sounds like we don't really need a car.  We weren't going to do much outside of downtown.  We need to take a day to visit with Rick's brother, and we really want to walk a lot around town.  We usually walk 4 or 5 miles per day in Disneyworld, so we should be able to enjoy San Francisco without a car.  

We assume it's safe downtown. We plan to eat lots of fish, too.  There are some great places to eat that we must find again, including a diner we enjoyed with our nephew a few times.  We have never spent the night in San Francisco, always in nearby areas and driving in for a day.  I really want some good fish and chips.


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## DeniseM (Dec 22, 2009)

Cindy - the touristy areas are safe - but be street smart.  

The area that is not safe at night is the Tenderloin.  It is actually OK to walk down Market, which is where the BART line is - but you don't want to get off Market in this area. Strangely enough, the popular Union Square area is just north-east of the Tenderloin. You are fine in Union Square - just don't walk south west from there.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, Denise, and I love your travel page for San Francisco.  I was thinking of a few tours, and Rick is a firefighter for Denver, so I think he would enjoy the fire engine tour.  I think I will do that one as a surprise for him.  It's a little pricey, but he will love it.


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## Fern Modena (Dec 22, 2009)

There is also a Fire Department Museum in San Francisco, which Rick would probably find interesting.  It is only open a few afternoons a week, so check before you go.

If he's into mechanical museums, he might like the cable car museum as well.  You can actually look down at the apparatus floor and see the cable running through the slot (which is how the cars move, but latching onto the moving cable).

Fern



rickandcindy23 said:


> Thanks for the advice, Denise, and I love your travel page for San Francisco.  I was thinking of a few tours, and Rick is a firefighter for Denver, so I think he would enjoy the fire engine tour.  I think I will do that one as a surprise for him.  It's a little pricey, but he will love it.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Dec 22, 2009)

I recommend the City Pass as you get all your transportation, plus a boat trip on the bay (narrated and goes by Alcatraz) and museums etc. Definitely, don't bother with a car, it's expensive and a hassle to drive and hard to find parking. We bought some take home food at the Gelson's market at the bottom of Powell and there is a really good food court if you go to the second food court going east, so you can eat cheaply when you want to do so. I really love San Francisco. Remember to bring warm clothes and layers as it can be cold and windy, pretty much anytime of year.
Liz


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## Jimster (Dec 23, 2009)

*DUH*

DUH- my bad!  I was in a hurry and didn't think.  Of course it is Muir Woods named for John Muir the ardent conservationist who was featured in the National Parks PBS video by Ken Burns. As for the 65+ Bart pass, I guess this is one time I wish I were older.


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## pcgirl54 (Dec 23, 2009)

On our way back from Maui we stayed at the Westin Market Place and got everywhere by foot or trolley car. No car is needed and parking is very pricey.

We used a limo service from the airport since I had jet lag from a Redeye and did not want to pull luggage around. Original plan was to use Bart but I was dead tired. We went on three tours.

See Fisherman's Wharf. We walked around China Town , Little Italy and all over the city except for the Tenderloin area.

Pier 39 and Fisherman's Wharf and do eat those giant Dungeoness crabs. http://laboulangebakery.com/ Bread bakery in the Wharf area.

Alcatraz tour with the headsets.

Rode the Trolley Car-expect to wait in line awhile but we did it. Went to see the Trolley Car Museum for a short stop before we headed to Chinatown.

Muir Woods a must see and if you want to really explore it and walk on many trails then plan more than an hour. It is breathtaking. You can stop in Sausalito on the way back. We went on a tour and spent 1 hour at Muir Woods and they only gave you 30 minutes in Sausalito. 1-2 hours would have been better. There was an option to leave and on your own take a ferry back to SF then we would have had to take trolleys to Market Street too much trouble when I was that tired.

What I did not get to see was the Painted Ladies. There is a walking tour that we just did not have time for. http://www.victorianwalk.com

Yes we saw the famous bridge but did not opt to walk across it.

One thing that does stick in my mind was the homeless people everywhere. Sleeping on the street and sidewalks and in wheelchairs with signs asking for money for liquor if you took their photo. I have never seen so many homeless on one city before.

I posted a review for Westin Ka'napali Maui /SF trip last May which I have just learned is not posted. Westfield San Franscico Centre 845 Market Street on the lower level has an incredible gourmet market Bristol Farms http://www.bristolfarms.com/locations/sanfrancisco.html all kinds of take out food and other wonderful things on the lower level. Besides that there is a Food Court Emporium with delicious food and many different stations. Low cost and very good not like the Mall Food Courts. Never seen anything like it.


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## x3 skier (Dec 23, 2009)

If you just want to ride a cable car, the California Line is seldom crowded, unlike Mason and Hyde lines that end around Fisherman's Wharf. It goes through the Financial District and Chainatown to Nob Hill.

Cheers


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Dec 23, 2009)

The California line will also take you just one block north of Powell Place so you can walk down. It is an alternate route home from Market Street as the line that runs Market down Powell is always every crowded. Sometimes you can get on if you walk a few blocks up from Market and wait. Going down on the cable car from Powell Place is easy.
Liz


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## thomas660 (Dec 23, 2009)

Cindy, You've gotten a lot of good advice from these posts.  One other thing you might check on is a free or reduced price City Pass from Powell Place.  My wife and I stayed there a couple of years ago and they had these transportation passes available for their customers.


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## Jestjoan (Dec 23, 2009)

*Beach Blanket Babylon*

http://www.beachblanketbabylon.com/  Get tickets as soon as you can, before you go, if you want to see this.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Suitcases on BART:  fine, but awkward during rush hour.

Walking from BART (Powell Street Station) to 730 Powell:  about a half mile, the last block or so steeply uphill.  Crowded sidewalks.

730 Powell to Fisherman's Wharf via public transit (assuming you really want to go there):  easy; just take the Powell/Mason cable car that runs in front of your TS northbound to the end of the line.  It will probably be easier to catch it a half block uphill from Powell Place because that corner (Powell & California Streets) is a transfer point for the three cable car lines.  To get to Ghiradelli Square or the Municipal Pier, take the Powell/Hyde cable car (same stop) northbound to the end of the line. 

730 Powell is an *excellent* location if you like to walk.  Two blocks to Chinatown, three blocks to Union Square, and less than a mile to North Beach or the Embarcadero promenade.

DeniseM's map overstates the size of the Tenderloin -- or at least the portions to avoid at night (clearly the Opera House is safe at night, for example) -- but there are other neighborhoods to avoid after dark as well.  Talk to the concierge for details.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Dec 30, 2009)

Take a cab with your suitcases up to Powell Place, it is a very, very steep hill up. On the other hand, it's quite doable walking down.
Liz


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## applegirl (Jan 6, 2010)

Cindy,

You've gotton some great suggestions here!  And I definitely plan on using Denise's SF page the next time we plan a trip there.

The last time we were in town we took a deluxe city tour with Grayline Bus tours.  It was very reasonable in price, only lasted about 3 hours and had a nice narration on headphones so we could hear about the different places we  were passing.  We made several good stops  including a hill overlooking the entire city (great photo op).  We were lucky to have a very clear day and I think it was called telegraph hill, but am not sure.  Had it not been for this tour we never would have seen that hill top and view.  We also stopped at Golden Gate park where we enjoyed hot tea in the Japanese garden.  Then our last stop was across the bay at a look out point where we could see the Golden Gate Bridge good, and again great photo op.

What I liked so much about this tour was that we saw so many things.  Had we had more days, we would have gone back to the sights that were of most interest to us.  We never would have seen half those sights if it were not for the tour.  I thought is was well, well worth the money.  The tour company even picked us up at our hotel (the Mark Hopkins Intercontinental on Nob Hill).

I also saw a link on the SF page at tripadvisor for a company that does tours along Fisherman's warf area on segueways (?), which would be totally fun!

Have a great trip.  Sounds like a lot fun in a wonderful city.

Janna


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 6, 2010)

My former sister-in-law lived in SF for most of her life, and she also advised us not to go to the Tenderloin District.  Then one of the guys at the firehouse was relating his experience staying in that district.  He would never do it again!  They had to step over people on the sidewalks.  

We are going to get the City Pass.  I will call Powell Place ahead of time and see if they have a bigger discount on the pass.  It's looks like a great deal to me, but I don't know whether the attractions in the pass are places we will want to visit.  We will use the transportation extensively.  I still don't mind walking a lot, I cannot take my exercise bike with me, so I need to exercise, but if we can ride most of the time, I will take it.  

The firefighter museum will be a must see for us.  When we travel, we always stop by the firehouses to ask the guys for the best restaurants.  I sit in the car, usually.  This has always been a worthwhile stop.  Rick never really wants to get away from the job.  When he retires, he will miss the culture, and it is a culture, the firehouse life.  

We haven't purchased airfare yet, so I will be sure to avoid rush hour on BART.  We will probably just use BART for to/from airport.  Is there any other reason to use BART, and is there a discount pass for BART?  I couldn't find one.


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## Lee B (Jan 6, 2010)

BART has a good website, bart.gov .  It gives fares and lots of other stuff.  You can even buy tickets through it.

The first time I and most people visited the ticket machine, it looked confusing, and everybody around seems to be in a rush.  So here's a preview:

Look at the paper (cuz things change) destination fare list to find out how much your ride costs per person.  You put that much money into the machine (or more -- it has Subtract buttons that you press (dollars and nickels, as I recall) as you watch the fare display drop), then press the button that the screen display says will print that fare of ticket.  The ticket then pops out for you to pull toward you.  Again, the machine takes coins and bills and makes NO mention of destination.  You have to use the destination chart to see what price ticket to buy.

bart.gov says one way from SFO to Powell Street is $8.10 per person.  If you have quite a crowd, maybe a taxi would be cheaper, but it's a long way.  The SF airport is not in the City and County of San Francisco, it's in San Mateo County, near Millbrae.

The entrance gate machine (look for a green arrow, not a red stop symbol) pops back your ticket with this station information on it.  KEEP THE TICKET.  When you arrive at your destination, use the ticket again to exit.  If your ticket has just the right fare, the exit gate will open.  If it has too much value, the gate will open after you remove your ticket for next time.  If it has too little value, the gate will not open and you will need to find an Add Fare machine to up its value.  That machine will tell you how much money to insert.

The website says there are separate machines for using debit and credit cards.  That's news to me, though it may always have been true.  I recall that the main ticket machine had a way to enter a credit card without making obvious that it would charge like $20 for one ticket that you would have to use repeatedly to get all the value back.  Those separate machines, says the website, let you buy tickets of just the value you want.

Because a ticket has two functions, entry and exit, you can't buy one high-value ticket and re-use it in the entrance gate.  Every person except small child must have a ticket.

See what I mean?  It's complicated the first time, maybe even second and third.  It has a logic to it though, and bart trains are the fastest way to downtown SF.  Feel free to ask for help.  Most riders remember their first time (and also want you to hurry), so they will be helpful.

If somebody has sensitive ears (and who doesn't?), have plugs handy.  The wheels scream in the tunnels.  That scream is supposedly a high-frequency rattle.


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## Fern Modena (Jan 6, 2010)

Another thing about BART.  Each person has to have their own ticket.  You can't use a ticket twice for entrance to a station without an exit in between.  The only discounts, for seniors and disabled are for multiple ride tickets and it used to be (when I lived there) that you could not purchase those in stations.

I can't think of where the nearest firehouse is to your timeshare, but there is a working firehouse on Presidio Avenue next to the Museum.

Fern


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## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2010)

We always buy BART tickets with a credit card, and the standard machines  will let you purchase a ticket for any amount that you wish - there may also be machines that only take cash, but the standard machines take cash, credit cards, and debit cards.  You can buy your exact fare with a credit card - you are not limited to a single amount, like $20.


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## geoffb (Jan 6, 2010)

Last trip we used Super Shuttle to get in from the airport, very convenient. Then we purchased the MUNI passports which were great since they included unlimited rides on the cable cars and that covers the cost after a few rides.


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## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2010)

The cable cars are fun and historic, but there are usually very crowded and slow, so they are more of an adventure, than efficient transportation.  Within the city, the bus is probably the most convenient form of Transport that will get you everywhere.  BART is great, but is it very limited - basically one line that goes through the middle of the city.


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## x3 skier (Jan 7, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> The cable cars are fun and historic, but there are usually very crowded and slow, so they are more of an adventure, than efficient transportation.  Within the city, the bus is probably the most convenient form of Transport that will get you everywhere.  BART is great, but is it very limited - basically one line that goes through the middle of the city.



I agree 100%

Cheers


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 7, 2010)

Don't forget to look at the Muni trains that run underground where Bart is. They are very fast, (unlike the bus). I think you will get plenty of exercise just walking in San Francisco. If you walk to Market and back each day from your timeshare, that's exercise as it is so very uphill!
Liz


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## winger (Jan 13, 2010)

*Short-term car rentals to consider - zipcar*

You can look into this, guys:  http://www.zipcar.com

I know of three co-workers who have memberships in this company.  Two of the co-workers live in San Francisco but refuses to purchase their own cars, the third lives 30+ miles outside San Fran but works in downtown San Fran.

All three have said very good things about this service.


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## JudiZ (Jan 13, 2010)

*No Need For a Car*

As other people have noted, a car is unnecessary if you are staying in the city - especially Powell Place. 

However, should you decide you want to rent to go to Napa or Muir Woods, you can rent at Hertz quite literally a few blocks from Powell Place. Out the door, left and down a few blocks on the right is an in-city rental site. Late drop-off but I would definitely make a reservation in advance if I knew I needed a car there.

Have fun!


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## shagnut (Jan 13, 2010)

I am following this with great interest as I am going to San Francisco in May!! I absolutley can not wait!!  I will be staying at Inn of the Opera House. My question is since I am not renting a car can I rent a mobility scooter somewhere for the week and be able to get on the bart without any trouble? I can walk but not long distances. I plan on taking a tour of Muirs Woods & take the ferry over to Sausalito.  Is this a good plan?  

Denise, I'm going to check out your SF tips.  shaggy


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## DeniseM (Jan 13, 2010)

I would go to Angel Island and Alcatraz, instead of Sausalito - Sausalito is just a quaint little town without much going on - I find Angel Island and Alcatraz a lot more interesting.

You can take a mobility scooter on BART, and that will get you from the airport, but BART is not an extensive subway system - it is basically one line that goes all the way through SF, but no branches.  In other words, you will have to utilize other transportation to get around in SF, and I don't know about getting a scooter up those hills!


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