# Help! Purchased HGVC Waikoloa Beach



## kccpa (May 6, 2009)

Purchased Gold season 5K points w/12K bonus points EOY for about 15K.  Am I crazy?   I'm a weeks owner and this is my first venture into points and I like the Hilton system so I guess that's why I broke the golden rule about not buying from the developer.  Am I crazy?  

Looked online and found 5K points on sale for about 12K.  With the financing thru Hilton I signed the deal but still have 4 days to rescind.  Feel like not rescinding so I'm looking to my TUG family to help with the decision.  

Again I ask...am I crazy?  I'm rationalizing but feel that this is a relatively medium way to get into the Hilton/points system...and then maybe buy more points on resale market.  The 12K bonus points was my push to buy from the developer.  

Replys very welcome....rational or not.    

I'm at the resort now and while not a golfer I like the access to the Hilton and Hilton properties.

Looking for my fellow generous w/info TUGgers to help me decide.

Thanks in advance!

Kathy


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## DEROS (May 6, 2009)

kccpa said:


> Purchased Gold season 5K points w/12K bonus points EOY for about 15K.  Am I crazy?   I'm a weeks owner and this is my first venture into points and I like the Hilton system so I guess that's why I broke the golden rule about not buying from the developer.  Am I crazy?
> 
> Looked online and found 5K points on sale for about 12K.  With the financing thru Hilton I signed the deal but still have 4 days to rescind.  Feel like not rescinding so I'm looking to my TUG family to help with the decision.
> 
> ...



Rescind.  If you really want Waikoloa, you can get a better deal resale.  I did.  Look for my post when I purchased my Waikoloa week.

Deros


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## ricoba (May 6, 2009)

Relax, you are not crazy!

But if you are still within the *rescission* period, then rescind now.

But again, you are not crazy!


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## kccpa (May 6, 2009)

*OK...I'm not crazy...but still???*

 I've been reading alot of threads.  ROFR has come up again and again.  This was not discussed during presentation...naturally.  Not sure if it applies but I'm going to talk to reps/sale mgr tomorrow afternoon.  I've got tours lined up for tomorrow (yeah, poor me....    and won't be at a computer until hopefully later tomorrow late afternoon.  

I hear RESCIND...but?????   I'm sucked into the dream of the program and LOVE hawaii.  Own at SOK annual and usually go almost every year.  Maint fees are about the same...except the maint fees at SOK are annual and the HGVC are EOY.  

I'm going to check on the ROFR...and when I get back tomorrow....hopefully read more helpful comments from my fellow Tuggers and then make a rational decision.  

Shoot...I just sold my Cabo resort and here I am buying something else.  The points are the lure...plus the bonus points.  

Well....I'm going to sleep on it...again!  and with all your help I hope to reach my decision.  

Thanks all.......

Kathy


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2009)

In this economy, no one is exercising ROFR - they don't want more TS's to sell!  You should rescind and buy for a fraction of the cost on the resale market!


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## wmmmmm (May 6, 2009)

$15K for 5000 pts EOY is way too expensive.  That's $6/point!  Waikoloa is almost always available at 9 months so the only reason you might want to buy 5000 gold pts is that you must book more than 9 months ahead and you need to be absolutely sure.  However, gold season is the month of May so you can't book say June a year ahead even if you bank/borrow.  Also, 5000 points is a 2-bd so you'll be paying the same maintenance as 7000.  I would recommend rescinding.  If you don't need access to Hilton Waikoloa or maybe just consider paying the $70/day or so.  Buy a 2-bd Bay Club.  You get to use the same swimming pools but just don't get the "free" Hilton Waikoloa access.  Or if you really want "HGVC" points, look at Vegas or Seaworld.  Points are points.

However, having said that.  I was tempted to buy another 8400 points years ago at the pre-opening price.  I think it was $27K   Luckily, I came to my senses!


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## linsj (May 6, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> In this economy, no one is exercising ROFR - they don't want more TS's to sell!



That's not true with Hilton. There's a thread here with current data.


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## PigsDad (May 6, 2009)

I say rescind as well.  You could get 5000 points in Las Vegas for $6K or less if you wanted.  Sure, you would not get be able to reserve 12 months out, but since you were buying Gold season there should be no reason you would not be able to make those reservations at the 9-month window -- there simply will not be as high of demand during Gold time.

Also (just my personal opinion), buying a timeshare is a definite luxury.  Do you really want to be financing a luxury purchase?  You would be "upside down" on your loan for many years, if you were ever forced to sell.  The rule of thumb around here is if you don't have the cash to pay for a TS, don't buy.  JMO.

Kurt


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## gmarine (May 6, 2009)

Your mistake isnt just that you bought from the developer. You bought from the developer and you financed the purchase. If you have to finance a developer purchase you shouldnt be buying it.  RESCIND.


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## dougp26364 (May 6, 2009)

If you REALLY want to return to this resort every year during Gold season, I say keep what you purchased. Hilton IS exercising ROFR and will be at this resort to protect it's developer pricing. Unlike other systems, Hilton appears to handle and keep it's own financing rather than sell the paper as a high risk security. 

There is NOTHING wrong with buying from a developer if it's the week you really want at a price you feel is reasonable. While it may be true that with Hilton, points are points, it is getting more difficult to exchange into Hawaii using points from resorts in Vegas and Orlando. If you own anywhere other than Hawaii, you have to take whatever is given up by those that own in Hawaii. Most of the time, those that buy in Hawaii buy to use in Hawaii. 

So, if this is the week you want at a resort you want to own and visit, then I say keep the contract and never look back. If you're anticipating exchanging more frequently than visiting this resort, then I don't feel it's a wise choice to own there.


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## HatTrick (May 6, 2009)

*Resale*

Right now, you can get 5000 gold-season odd-year points at Hilton Waikoloa for $5000.


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## Aptman (May 6, 2009)

*Rescind Now!!!*

If, and this is a VERY BIG IF, you absolutely must stay at Waikaloa during a very busy season when it's otherwise impossible to get reservations (and I'm not sure that this ever happens except during X-mas/New Years, and not even then necessarily), perhaps you should get Waikaloa points.  On the other hand, you have paid big bucks for what is, in effect, 2500 points per year, which in HGVC, gets you next to nothing.  

This is, far as I can tell, a no-brainer.  I would rescind and buy any of the numerous HGVC packages for sale on this website right now for a fraction of what you paid.  $6 per point is just outrageous.  There is, simply put, no reason to spend this kind of money except to keep Hilton wealthy (which, I guess, is good for those of us who already own, so.....).   

Seriously, though.  Look a the classifieds section here and see how much points are costing, and realize that with the number of points you'll get at half the cost (at least twice as many points, if not more), you can have several vacations in Hawaii for that price.  Also, read through these threads and you'll realize how available Waikaloa is.  Think about it, 2500 points per year gets you next to nothing there, and your maintenance fees will be far more than an equivalent package would be in Vegas.

You can write us all checks for a few hundred dollars for saving you thousands a year or so from now when you realize how right we all were.


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## ecwinch (May 6, 2009)

*Another vote for rescinding*

You clearly should rescind now, for the simple reason that you need more time to evaluate the economics of the purchase decision. 

This might be the right timeshare purchase for you. And buying from the developer might be the right choice. 

But you really need more time to research those facts, and come to an informed decision. You made an large impulse decision while on vacation. Now as the glow of the vacation starts to wear off, exercise your right to rescind. 

Despite what the sales person said at the time, the deal is not going anywhere. If you rescind today, and call them back in two weeks or a month, the same deal is going to be there. And it might be even better then. Drop the notice of cancellation in the mail today, preferably by certified mail.


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## hockeybrain (May 6, 2009)

Rescind - I am 100% certain once you wake up you will realize you are making a mistake.   I just hope you wake up in time!  Buy the same property or better - cheaper!!!   Lose the salesman contact information, do not accept calls from him / her and RESCIND!!!


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## Elsie Mae (May 6, 2009)

My question is why are they selling 5000 point packages at HGVC-Waikoloa.  All the units are two bedrooms and require 8400 points for a one week stay.  Bay Club requires 7000 points for one week in a two bedroom (they do have one bedroom units available).  I don't think 5000 points will do you any good if you want to use the points for a two bedroom unit.


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## jlee2070 (May 6, 2009)

5000 points WILL get you one week if you go during GOLD Season.  Gold Season in Hawaii is about 10 weeks out of the year. (wks 19-22 and 36-41)..  Otherwise it is Platinum and cost 7000 per week.  Of course this is for a "regular" 2 BR.  2BR "PLUS" are 5800 and 8400, then "PREMIER are 7000 and 9600...  These are dependent on View (parking lot vs partial golf course vs full golf course views) but then again, Waikoloa has no Ocean View so...

Seems to me you should go for 7000 Points and have the flexibility to go any time during the year for a "regular" 2 BR...

And, I agree, buy RESALE!!!  ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in service level from HGVC!!!


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## Elsie Mae (May 6, 2009)

I stand corrected.  I purchased "platinum" weeks (8400 points) so my brain, in its effort to do file management, didn't keep the info handy about the difference between platinum, gold, 2BR+, etc.


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## jehb2 (May 6, 2009)

*another vote for recinding*

I would also add if you know you really want to vacation at HGVC Waikoloa then buy a resale there.  There is no sense in paying full price unless there is absolutely no resales on the market and you can't wait.

Secondly, unless gold season works exceptionally well for you (which is about 2 months out of the year) you should buy 7000 points so that you can go when you want to.


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## Bustah (May 6, 2009)

Rescind - there are much better resale deals out there.


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## kccpa (May 6, 2009)

*OK.....I hear the RESCIND clearly...but?*

 Still need help with the calculation of value to points.   The developer is giving me 12K points on a 5K points deal for about 15K.  Am I looking at this all wrong is seeing 17K points for 15K = 1.1333 per point.  Granted it's EOY and thats where I'm confused.  Doesn't the value of the bonus points become part of the equation?

Thanks for all your thoughts...still on the fense about what to do.  I WANT to be able to trade back into HI...that's primarily why I'm considering this purchase.  

 Help again please.   I need a quick education as to how to best calculate the value of the points.

My fellow tuggers you are wonderful.  Thanks for any and all your help!

Kathy


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## ricoba (May 6, 2009)

I am not great at figuring the math, but the bonus points are a one time deal that will expire in a set amount of time as I remember.  But even if you use the 12,000 points right away, I think that is just about enough for 1 week 2 bedroom platinum season in the Grand Waikikian or the new Kingsland.

As others have pointed out 5000 points won't really go far at the Waikoloa either.

You can buy gold points (5000) at a Vegas location cheaper and have lower maintenance fees.

I think you need to rescind now, think about it and look around.  If you keep waiting for the perfect answer, you will be our of the rescission time frame.

But that's your choice and your money.  Regardless of how much people here on TUG are telling you to rescind and buy resale, it's still up to you to do what you want.


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## Karen G (May 6, 2009)

kccpa said:


> Doesn't the value of the bonus points become part of the equation?


 Are these points a one-time usage only? You aren't getting 12K bonus points every other year in addition to 5K pts. you are buying, are you?

RESCIND while you have this one chance to do so.  Since you aren't clear exactly what you are buying and you still have questions, rescind while you can.  The deal will always be there once you've had a chance to thoroughly educate yourself on this purchase. But, you won't ever have this chance to rescind again once you let the rescission period pass.


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## kccpa (May 6, 2009)

*Thanks!*

1st...I'm going to talk to the good ole resort folks and clear up the ROFR plus if there is a time limit as to when the 12K points expire.  This of course, wasn't mentioned during the presentation.  If I don't like the answer I guess I'm close to 100% sure I'm going to rescind.  

As one person pointed out...TS is a luxury and I just sold one of my TS's because I wasn't able to use it effectively.  I've wanted to get into points and got swept up in the whole Hilton deal.  

I still have easily until Sat to rescind...granted that's not a long time from now but I still have a night or so to think about it.   

Thanks for all your input...I really am listening!  Still...I think I can work the Hilton system and this seemed initially to be an easy way to get started.  

Thinking about those 12K points....if I don't use them...can't they be converted to Hilton Honors points?  Not sure about that...another question for the folks here to answer.  

If I rescind.....I suppose that I need to do it the formal way as described on the rescind sheet...sending all the materials back to HNL.   

I will say this....the TS sales "closer" did say to me that "hey, if you want to change your mind tomorrow....just come in and we'll give you your $$$ back immediately....we're not here to pressure you!"    Yeah right.  Can I believe this?  Guess I'll find out...probably tomorrow when I go back to the sales office.  

This is why I love TUG so much...there is a voice of reason here...and if I want to be nuts and keep the deal then I certainly can't complain about not making an informed decision.  But folks...you've pretty much convinced me that I need to back out.

It'll be an interesting day tomorrow.


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## linsj (May 7, 2009)

Bonus points: One time only use; you don't get them every year. They expire in, I think, 18 months. You can use them only at the 30-day mark for reservations or can convert them to hhonors points.


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## dougp26364 (May 7, 2009)

kccpa said:


> Still...I think I can work the Hilton system and this seemed initially to be an easy way to get started.



Now this one line out of all you've said is the one that scares me and gives me reason to think that maybe you should rescind and think about this a bit more. $15,000 is a lot of money to pay for something you _think_ you can use. Before dropping that much coin in this market, if it were me, I'd be darn sure I could/would use it. 

The only reason for buying into this resort and paying developer pricing is if it's the week you want AND you'll want to go back to this resort more often than not AND stay in the unit type you're buying. Otherwise, everyone else is correct and you're better off buying resale somewhere else. If your main desire is to stay at this resort then fine, I'd have no problem keeping the contract and I'd sleep fine at night. If you're mostly interested in exchange then I'd have a tough time sleeping. Especially if you're financing the purchase at double digit interest rates.


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## Talent312 (May 7, 2009)

kccpa said:


> 1st...I'm going to talk to the good ole resort folks and clear up the ROFR plus if there is a time limit as to when the 12K points expire.  This of course, wasn't mentioned during the presentation.  If I don't like the answer I guess I'm close to 100% sure I'm going to rescind... I still have easily until Sat to rescind...granted that's not a long time from now but I still have a night or so to think about it.



From the Members' Guide, pg.143 --
"Any unused Bonus Points expire *two (2) years* from the ownership purchase date."
If financed, at least six months of payments or 20% must be paid prior to their first use.

Bonus Points may be used:
-- for Affiliated Resort reservations during the Open Season (30 days out).
-- ClubPartner perks (non-resort travel, i.e. cruises)
-- RCI reservations
-- Hilton hotel reservations
-- credit against maintenance fees
-- conversion to HHonors points

But let me add my name to the chorus, *RESCIND*.  After those BP's are gone, you'll be left with a HGVC membership for which you paid far too much.  And do not rely on any T/S salesman's representation about ROFR levels.  How do you know a T/S salesman is lying?  His lips are moving.


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## alwysonvac (May 7, 2009)

*Do the Math...Is 12,000 HGVC bonus points worth $10,000?  I don't think so.*

*Bonus points are ok but you will save more overall with resale. *

According to the latest Membership Guide, Bonus Points cannot be used to reserve accomodations during the Home Resort week or Club Reservation window. Bonus points cannot be transferred or assigned and cannot be borrowed or deposited into next year's account. It looks like you can convert your HGVC Bonus points to HHonor points but it will only give you 300,000 HHonor points - see this post about HHonor points http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=684442&postcount=3. See page 143 of the Membership Guide for the rules regarding Bonus points - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/

HGVC Gold points are going for much less on the resale market. HatTrick wrote...





HatTrick said:


> Right now, you can get 5000 gold-season odd-year points at Hilton Waikoloa for $5000.


Do the Math...Is 12,000 HGVC bonus points worth $10,000 (not including the finance charges)?  I don't think so.

The HGVC sales folks may not be totally truthful about HGVC ROFR levels and HGVC resale. You can call the recommended TUG resale agents for HGVC to confirm the ROFR level for a 5000 EOY gold season at the Hilton Waikoloa. - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428


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## Elsie Mae (May 7, 2009)

I would just like to reassure you that I am a HGVC - Waikoloa owner and I have never regretting buying into it.  Also, if you are a planner, and you book 276 days before your intended check-out day you will have no problem getting the unit you want.


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## kccpa (May 7, 2009)

*Totally Convinced now*

 Thank you all.  I'm now totally convinced that I'm going to rescind TODAY!

I'm going to run to a copy shop and make copies of the pertinent info on the resorts and then start looking at resales now that I know what I want.

You TUGgers are invaluable and I thank you from the bottom of my heart (& wallet) for all your wise and considerable information.  

Why I fought it...when I KNOW to buy resale is beyond me...other than I know I love TS's and traveling to wonderful places. 

Thanks so much!  

Kathy


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## ecwinch (May 7, 2009)

Good deal. Rescind then revisit the decision without the perceived pressure of the current situation. 

You have recognize that you were subjected to a sales process engineered to negate your reasonable concerns and to have you make the decision to buy. 

The deal you have now will still be there tomorrow or next week. They will say otherwise, but it will still be there. And maybe after you consider all factors, the deal you have now might be the best one for you. It is unlikely, but you need more time to evaluate the purchase.


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