# Owning Vacation Club Points For $6.13 Per Point



## Michigan Czar (Aug 31, 2012)

Here is a copy of an email I received from a MVCI salesman tonight. See the bold (my bolding) below, I find it interesting that they are stating in writing that there is no disadvantage.

Did you know that you can own Vacation Club Points for as low as $6.13* per Vacation Club Point when bundling with a re-sale week where as the current selling price per Vacation Club Points is $11.16*. This is a 45% discount off the list price, this is the absolute best offer we have had to own Vacation Club Points, please call or email for details. This offer is only valid at this price until close of business on Sept 5th, 2012.
Here are a few facts you may not be aware of:
•	Vacation Club Points are the same whether they come from your weeks being converted or just purchasing Trust points. The only difference is how they are deeded. *You will not have any dis-advantage by trying to book a reservation from your exchange points vs. Trust points.  *
•	All of the Ritz-Carlton Vacation Club properties are now part of the Vacation Club System and the point requirement to stay in these world class properties has been lowered. The average 3 week share of a Ritz-Carlton Property averaged $500,000 with annual HOA dues averaging $18,000 you can own 10,000 Vacation Club Points for only $61,300. You can also log on to www.my-vacationclub.com and click on Plan and Book My Vacation then click the Explorer Collection / Luxury Collection link to see some of the exciting and new vacation possibilities. (Premier Status of 6,500 Vacation Club Points or more for eligibility requirement).

•	People that own a timeshare take more vacations than the general public.
Re-sale Inventory is subject to availability.  Marriott Vacation Club is offering the capability to bundle a Marriott Resale week with a minimum purchase of Vacation Club Points.  The re-sale week (i.e. Legacy week) can be converted into Vacation Club Points every year at no additional cost.  As you may not be aware, this limited resale inventory on its own cannot be converted into Vacation Club Points, however can be converted into Marriott Reward Points.
By acting sooner rather than later you can get the best of both worlds by obtaining a traditional Marriott Vacation Club week combined with our new Destinations Program – both which are deeded to you forever – at a significantly reduced cost. 
Please email or call for the properties you are interested in for a Re-sale bundle. Two of the best sellers have been our Orlando Cypress Harbor FL. and our Manor Club Williamsburg VA. weeks, we also have Newport Beach, Maui, Kauai, and several more!
Here is a great link Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program – How It Works Video  that will give you an overview of our new product If you have questions please call me at (801) 468-4259 or (808) 635-7669.  As a reminder, incentives are up to 30% larger when purchasing direct through me here at Owner Services rather than buying at one of our resorts due to less overhead.
Remember; “when tomorrow comes, when was the best time to spend quality time with your loved ones – the answer is always yesterday. Which would be today – the present”.  Remember if you have children they will seldom remember what they received for holiday gifts, but they will always remember their Family vacations.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 31, 2012)

What a salesman says depends on what he wants you to believe in order to make a sale. Here it's obviously thought to be an advantage to sell the idea that points are points regardless of where they originate, trust purchase or resale week conversion. Those who have already converted will likely be told they need to "legitimize" their legacy points with a trust purchase because points are not equal until a purchase is made.

I use to have some respect for Marriott sales. Not so much anymore.


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## FractionalTraveler (Aug 31, 2012)

Yes, they have been offering this bundling thing for a while now.

The bundling of a legacy week with a Trust points purchase makes them a BUNDLE of cash.  More so than just buying Trust points alone since their take on the legacy week re-sale is 40%.

I own Trust points and I don't believe the statement that has been bolded is correct.  I have proven this already here on TUG.


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## jont (Sep 1, 2012)

FractionalTraveler said:


> The bundling of a legacy week with a Trust points purchase makes them a BUNDLE of cash.  More so than just buying Trust points alone since their take on the legacy week re-sale is 40%.



Good one!:hysterical:


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## CashEddie (Sep 1, 2012)

I was tempted to purchase one of these bundles just a few days ago but decided against it.  I was going to purchase Manor Club platinum week for $7800 and purchase 2500 trust points.  Total package would be $30k and would yield a "total" of 5000 points.  The added perk with Manor club is that you can convert it to 110,000 MR points every year.  You can purchase the Manor Club week alone at first and you would have the option to enroll it in the DC within a year by paying the additional $22k. 

My fear is if you buy the package and you go to book a stay and they state you don't have enough "trust" or "legacy" points to complete the reservation.  I was told something similar when I was booking my stay at Ocean Watch for next year.  They told me I couldn't book OF view because it was all trust points only and I had only legacy points.


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## hangloose (Sep 1, 2012)

I see a few benefits to the above.  Am I correct in my thinking?

1.  The Marriott resale legacy week purchased, would then gain access to use also within DC?   Perhaps one of the only entry ways currently to add a newly purchased week into DC, right?

2.  If interested in a DC points purchase also, this would enable you to get them much cheaper than Marriott's current ~$10-11 pricing?

3.  The combo would perhaps yield more DC pts between both versus a direct DC points purchase?


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## FractionalTraveler (Sep 1, 2012)

pedersenkl said:


> I see a few benefits to the above.  Am I correct in my thinking?
> 
> 1.  The Marriott resale legacy week purchased, would then gain access to use also within DC?   Perhaps one of the only entry ways currently to add a newly purchased week into DC, right?
> 
> ...



1. Yes, but its the legacy week they choose for you not the one you get to pick.  Means that if you have no desire to go where the legacy week is located then you would trade in II or DC which is exactly what they want you to do.

2. Yes, if you are really inteested in buying the Trust Points.  These are basically disposable since you would have to give them away to exit.

3. Yes, of course more weeks and points adds up to more MF as well.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good evening

Fractional...

this is not true...the program is open to any Legacy resale week in stock on the MVCD resale website  !!! My partner picked up a plat HHI Barony Oceanfront, generated 5K legacy points + 5K trust...generated over 10K points (including a deed to the HHI week) for under $70K + a take of 350,000 MR points...

This program applies to the Mountainside Platinum and the silver Ocean Pointe, as long as it is in the resale program!!!!


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## csalter2 (Sep 2, 2012)

*Only if you need them..*

I wrote about this bundling  a few weeks ago here on TUG. This is actually a good deal if you really, really want more points to travel. The deal that I still have on the table is good until Sept. 5th like the one mentioned here, but my cost per point would be 5.90 and I would be at Premier status. 

I would caution folks to be careful in pursuing this. Be sure you will be traveling as much as the points you will have responsibility for.  Also, understand the maintenance fees you will have to pay every year. Recognize you will be paying those fees forever and that they will continue to increase forever every year.


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## FractionalTraveler (Sep 2, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> Fractional...
> 
> ...



Puck, that is exactly the point I was trying to make.  It’s not any legacy re-sale week on the market.  It’s only the ones listed on the MVCI resale website.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/buy-weeks.shtml

The cost of these weeks on average is higher than resale weeks on the open market because owners know that Marriott will take 40% from the transaction.

I don't think your partner got a good deal at all.  Your partner purchased what Marriott offered not what your partner probably really wanted.  If your partner's goal was X number of days of vacations at MVCI properties, then there are many more cost effective ways to get that at a fraction of the $70K investment that was made. 

This is a very cleaver sales/marketing technique.  Bundling!

This happens to me all the time with my cars.  I want the Bluetooth hands free feature in my car for safety but the only way the dealer will sell it to me is bundled in a $3,000 Technology or Premium package.  Why? This is where they make the most profit!

Same thing with cell phone carriers and Cable/SAT providers.  Bundling is the way to get customers to spend more than they really need or want.

Marriott in essence is doing the same thing.  First they restrict enrollment of the legacy weeks in the DC and then they say 2 years later, oh yes you can now enroll that week as long as it’s bundled with a much more expensive minimum Trust points purchase that has much higher MF.  

This serves a dual purpose.  

(1) It maximizes their profit on the bundle since their true cost of the product is minimal.
(2) It gets you to buy into a more expensive Trust Points purchase that you may not have really wanted in the first place.

I have to hand it to them.  They do have very good sales/marketing folks!


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good morning....

My partner got exactly what he wanted... He wanted a HHI summer oceanfront week and also wanted to be a point player!! He snagged Barony OF summer and has a point package of over 10K points (1/2 Legacy 1/2 Trust) My partner loves summer beach but doesnt want to be locked into II and 7 day stays...

He has booked his 2013 HHI week for July occupancy and has used the 5000 Trust points for a spring break Lakeshore stay with his famiy and used the rest towards our Ritz Carlton Vail trip in February...

Yes, he paid more for the HHI week than thru traditional resale market, but he has the both of all the time share world.  His total MF's for the package about $3300  less than the $4200 if he had just purchased Trust points (10K).  This package came at about $6.90/pt.  

He also snagged about 350,000 MR points.... with travel packages...this could snag a value of close to $5K ( 4 FC plane tix) perhaps 4 coach to Europe...when combined with the 1,000,000 pts he already has...

Being a point player, really helps him because we have a consortium in our practice of 4 current DC members... we can pool our resources just as we did when we combined for a 2 and 3 bedroom at Ritz Carlton Vail next February!!!

I believe (as u said) that Trust pts> Legacy pts but only slightly....

bottom line, after explaining to him all of the options my partner made a decision and he is happy!!!!


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## FractionalTraveler (Sep 2, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> 
> My partner got exactly what he wanted... He wanted a HHI summer oceanfront week and also wanted to be a point player!! He snagged Barony OF summer and has a point package of over 10K points (1/2 Legacy 1/2 Trust) My partner loves summer beach but doesnt want to be locked into II and 7 day stays...
> 
> ...



Puck, I find the comments in bold interesting.

What if we Croudsourced a specific property to manipulate the availability during a peak time for a defined set of activities and owners?

Now that sounds like fun....


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good morning...

missing the point of the previous post....  

We have a bunch of partners that want to go on a ski trip   3 of them are Dc members... the other 2 put their points in my acct and I made the reservation!!! seems pretty straight forward and within the rules!!!!

just a powerful application of points... if all of us just had a one bedroom somewhere we could never have done this with II... we also beat the "reverse skim" as it costs less then the cost of a 1 bedroom to upgrade a 2 bedroom into a 3!!!!

just sayin...


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## hangloose (Sep 2, 2012)

Excellent comments back.  And as I expected.

Legacy resale can only be from the Marriott resale listings.

Questions

1.  Is there a DC point minimum for combo on this type of package?  Or is it still near the 1500 minimum?

2.  Is there any room for negotiation on the Marriott legacy resale price?  Aren't those re-sale weeks other Marriott owners have asked Marriott to sell, thus perhaps opening negotiation of the selling Marriott owner is interested?


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## FractionalTraveler (Sep 2, 2012)

pedersenkl said:


> Excellent comments back.  And as I expected.
> 
> Legacy resale can only be from the Marriott resale listings.
> 
> ...



Yes, I believe you are right on.

1. The minimum Trust points purchase right now seems to be 1500 points but 1000 is available as well.  What is interesting is with a Bundle that minimum jumps around depending on the legacy week that is being considered for bundling.  In other words, they will not tell you up front how many Trust points you will be required to purchase until you tell them the legacy week you are interested in.  That is why I call this the "Venus Fly Trap" of Marriott sales/marketing.

Their re-sale dept. was virtually pronounced DEAD or dormant 2 years ago.  Now they have added another crafty tool to their arsenal to revive the resale business on their website.

This is exactly what happens to folks who walk into a car dealership with a trade-in.  The value of the trade ultimately depends not on any Kelly bluebook figure but what new car purchase price is negotiated.  Same used car salesman tactics.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good afternoon....

Fractional...

Let me take another stab at this.... 

What would be your recommendation for entry into the MVCD program for a newby that wants to be involved in points????

a purchase of just resale weeks doesn't accomplish this
a purchase of just isolated trust points is mighty pricey
the bundle plan???
nothing at all..don't play in points???

despite reports to contrary... I do believe II inventory especially for platinum trades will decline... MVCD is basing their whole sales strategy on it...

what would be your advice for a new customer that wants to truly timeshare and trade to different places...

the answer is easy if the customer only wants to occupy most of time at home resort..then it is easily #1


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## GregT (Sep 2, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon....
> 
> Fractional...
> 
> ...



Puck,

I know you posed the question to FT, but I'd like to take a stab at it.   

I would no longer encourage someone to focus solely on Marriott -- unless they are interested primarily in off-season travel.    I think (for prime season travel) that, unless you want to own the prime week, mini-systems are the best way to ensure access, and Marriott's mini-system is closed to resale buyers.   Other systems have opportunities for the resale buyer.

If someone wanted to reliably go to Maui, I'd tell them to buy a Starwood, and use StarOptions to visit Westin Kaanapali.  They can buy a 2BR Every Year for $15K, and pay $1,400 in MFs, and be pretty confident that they will be able to book Maui 8 months out, even in July.    

If they don't need to go in July/August and are happy with shoulder, they can buy a cheap Starwood trader (they are basically free) and book into one of the II bulk banks into Maui.  The Starwood preference is equally powerful to the Marriott preference, and Starwood is, at the moment, still doing bulk banks into Westin Maui, Westin Princeville, Harborside at Atlantis, basically all their properties except Westin St. John.

Same point for Oahu -- but it requires owning HGVC.   

Marriott has really changed the landscape on us -- or more specifically -- future resale customers of Marriott.   The most encouraging thing I have seen in Marriott/II in the last six months was that Jim Dunn still traded into summer Hilton Head -- I thought for sure Marriott was stocking those prime summer HHI weeks, but Jim traded in.

So....tough choice for the future resale buyer.    If they are content with off-season travel, Marriott and II still have promise for them.  But other than that, I'd think about different systems.

Best,

Greg


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good afternoon...

#1 my last post was in the wrongthread oops...

#2  yes,  I forgot a very viable option....

..consider another points based system

I believe my partner has been "marriottized" by me.  Having the come to work for the last 8 yrs, hear my stories and look at my pictures!!!!


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## mjm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

GregT said:


> Puck,
> 
> I know you posed the question to FT, but I'd like to take a stab at it.
> 
> ...



Greg, nice summary and comments.  We agree with you completely.

Mike


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good afternoon...

So the general consensus here is that MVCD as it currently exists is not an effective program for the new entry customer...that wants to trade and explore plat high demand areas...

a purchase of resale weeks is a good entry point for the customer that follows the TUG dogma of buying where they want to travel 2/3 years and occasionally trade...

Actually, it is hard to disagree with this... 

I find the isolated purchase of Trust points not cost effective, but I felt the bundling plan wasn't a bad compromise point of entry!!!


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 2, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon...
> 
> So the general consensus here is that MVCD as it currently exists is not an effective program for the new entry customer...that wants to trade and explore plat high demand areas...
> 
> ...



I'm not sure you can consider it a not so bad point of entry at $70K. You were saying your MF was $3400. 

I looked up RC and it is 13225 points for February in a 3 BR. Assuming your partners purchased at the same level, to get this reservation, your cost in MF would be around $4500 at a cost of say $93K (10K purchase x 1.3 to get enough to book)

If you rented DC points at $0.50 pp, your cost for your trip would be $6600, an additional $2100 per year. Assuming no increase in MF, it would take 44 trips for you to be break even and you would have no commitment to a long term obligation. This is not taking into consideration any appreciation of the $93K over time it takes to make 44 trips to RC.

At the end of the day it is your money and if you find value in what you paid that is great, but in terms of the points arena, buying in any bundle is not cost effective.

It would have been better to buy a couple of resale Marriott weeks for $1000 each to trade for other weeks you might want and rent the points needed for your big Vail trip whenever you want to go.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 2, 2012)

good evening....

Quad... this isn't for me... I have 4 developer weeks purchased in 2004, 2006 which net 13,866 Legacy points... I am just describing a combo/bundled opackage my partner just purchased where he gets over 10k pts and a barony OF plat for $70K... less than $7/pt...


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## siberiavol (Sep 5, 2012)

I think quadmaniacs's argument is quite persuasive. It is the approach I would now take if I were a newbie. I think most new buyers wouldn't take that approach because there would be a "feeling of uncertainty" about trades and renting.

It is difficult for many of us who migrated from developer purchases to resale and perhaps to renting to remember how secure we felt at the time of our purchase from Marriott .A lot of time on TUG helped many of us take another approach which proved much cheaper. The tuggers are the salesmen so to speak for renting and resale. Most people never hear our pitch.

I spent all most thirty years in the investment area. There is perceived risk and real risk. Buying from the developer seems to offer certainty.Few thought prices would plunge and maintenance fees would go up at a lot faster rate than inflation.Quad's approach would feel risky because there are so many unknowns but has less real risk in my opinion if cost is important at all.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 5, 2012)

good morning....

Let me try this one again....

Yes, the best point of entry is the purchase of some resale weeks.  However, some people need and want to play in points....Some folks can't be locked into weeks and the uncertainty of II trades....

The bundled package of 10K pts (1/2 legacy 1/2 trust) is mighty proicey but it is a much better deal thanthe staight up purchase of 10K pts for over $100K...

As a 4 week Legacy owner of some nice stuff , I have the best of all of the worlds...  The bundled plan is the closest a newbie can come to matching what I have...

Yes... If I ever felt a need to expand my portfolio..it would be a resale week at a place I wanted to go to...

This thread is abour entry point for newbies... neewbies that go resale deeded weeks cannot enroll in DC thus cannot rent points...


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> 
> Let me try this one again....
> 
> ...



Puck
I agree with you, this is a viable option for those who want to play the points game. Right now, Marriott has effectively shut the points door for those looking for a cheap way in. ie: ebay resale weeks. Some of us remain hopeful it will open up again someday, but i'm not holding my breath. 
A GO platinum purchase is a good one, even at marriott resale prices, With the trust points your partner has a lot of good options, esp with the ability to rent points amongst yourselves. 
 My partner at work owns several Marriotts and I finally convinced him to enroll those weeks. We now both have a first option go to person for points rental. 
 IMHO Seems like a win/win for your partner.


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

*Further analysis of bundled resales*

I became curious which Marriott resales offered the lowest cost per point based on the bundled concept. Below is a small sample after checking resale prices from the Marriott website and checking them against their corresponding point redemption values:

Barony  2BR/OF/Bronze…..  $3000/1100pts………$2.73/point
Barony  2BR/GV/Plat………  $16700/3475pts……$4.80/point
Barony  2BR/OF/Silver……..  $7100/2300pts…..…$3.09/point

Beach Place  2BR/xx/Plat…..  $15600/3225pts……$4.84/point

Boston 1BR/xx/Plat…………. $13000/2950pts……$4.41/point

Grande O  2BR/OF/Plat……...  $31900/5025pts……$6.35/point
Grande O  2BR/OS/Gold……..  $12800/3325pts……$3.84/point
Grande O  2BR/OS/Bronze.…..  $2900/775pts…….…$3.74/point

Grande V  3BR/xx/Plat……....  $12600/3725pts……$3.38/point
Grande V 2BR/xx/Plat…...…..  $8900/2775pts….…$3.20point
Grande V  1BR/xx/Plat…….....  $5000/1850pts……$2.70/point


Manor seq  2BR/xx/Plat……....  $9500/2375pts……$4.00/point

Ocean P  2BR/OS/Gold……....  $10900/2750pts……$3.96/point
Ocean P  2BR/OF/Plat………..  $18300/5375pts……$3.40/point

Of course, you would then need to buy an equal amount of trust points at 
approx $11 per point.

From this brief analysis, it seems that Grande Vista and Ocean Pointe seem 
to be the best values.
Thoughts?


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## puckmanfl (Sep 5, 2012)

good morning....

price drops to about $10/pt when you throw in $$$ incentives tahtstart with 3000 pt purchases..This makes the bundle price between $6.50 and $7.5o pt.  The best deal depends on the owners plans for the deeded week...

Of those listed GV 3 bedroom plat probably the best trader with HHI 2 bedroom plat just behind....3 bedroom GV is a lock off though!!! 2 weeks foir same MF's...

I do believe II trades will diminish overtime!!! (if not already) I would go for the unit that the owner would most likely occupy and hold some value  OP or HHI plat might be the best bet there!!!  I would vote for HHI plat...

My buddy went for the Barony OF plat+ 5000 pts combo... snug in under $7/pt with a OF Barony to boot!!!


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> 
> price drops to about $10/pt when you throw in $$$ incentives tahtstart with 3000 pt purchases..This makes the bundle price between $6.50 and $7.5o pt.  The best deal depends on the owners plans for the deeded week...
> 
> ...


Puck
isn't it afternoon? or are you in Hawaii now?  
I agree with you in this case, better to buy where you will go instead of just a pure trader.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 5, 2012)

good afternoon....

the atomic clock took a snooze....
good ol' puck took a skating lesson this morning...
too many backwards crossovers....
need to work on my left over right backwards c-overs...
forward c-overs and puckhandling dramatically improved...

very leery to just play the II trading game..if the devaluation of AC's is any hint of the future...


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## hangloose (Sep 5, 2012)

Is it correct that this combo promotion requires the trust point purchase at ~$11/pt to be equivalent to the same number of DC pts as the resale week chosen?

IE. 

Resale Purchase Barony 2BR/GV/Plat: 3475pts = $16,700
Equivalent DC Trust Purchase Required:  3475pts = $38,225 ($11/pt)
TOTAL = $54,925 (6,950 pts for ~7.90 per pt)

Correct?


Also, how did you find the DC pt values?


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 5, 2012)

pedersenkl said:


> Is it correct that this combo promotion requires the trust point purchase at ~$11/pt to be equivalent to the same number of DC pts as the resale week chosen?
> 
> IE.
> 
> ...



Yep and the points are supposed to be going up to $11.40 according to the sales rep yesterday. I couldn't remember what date it was he said


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## CashEddie (Sep 5, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Yep and the points are supposed to be going up to $11.40 according to the sales rep yesterday. I couldn't remember what date it was he said



New price fo points go up tomorrow.  Apparently they won't know exactly what it will be until tomorrow morning when they come in.

Current price per point is $11.16.


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

pedersenkl said:


> Is it correct that this combo promotion requires the trust point purchase at ~$11/pt to be equivalent to the same number of DC pts as the resale week chosen?
> 
> That's is the approx current points price They will go a litter lower depending on the amount of pts purchased. For 3500 pts, you could probably get them for around $10/point
> 
> ...



hope this helps

and ps: don't forget the closing costs!


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Yep and the points are supposed to be going up to $11.40 according to the sales rep yesterday. I couldn't remember what date it was he said



And keep in mind they started out at $9.20 per point when they began the DC Club with a 1000 pt min purchase. I gotta give them credit for their success so far.


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

You guys are killing me. I had just about made up my mind for certain that it would be OK for me to buy two OW weeks instead of points. Can't we just get out the crystal ball and tell me how the whole points -v- weeks will work out in 10 years?? I too had a nice spreadsheet with $/pt figures for these bundles. 

I had to do some back and forth with a sales rep to find the number of points I would get for enrolling some of the weeks offered by Marriott for resale because I did not know about that list from Greg..


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> You guys are killing me. I had just about made up my mind for certain that it would be OK for me to buy two OW weeks instead of points. Can't we just get out the crystal ball and tell me how the whole points -v- weeks will work out in 10 years?? I too had a nice spreadsheet with $/pt figures for these bundles.
> 
> I had to do some back and forth with a sales rep to find the number of points I would get for enrolling some of the weeks offered by Marriott for resale because I did not know about that list from Greg..



If you like MOW and would be happy going there, I would not hesitate to buy there.  
You can always get points at another time, they are not going anywhere.
I could have bought a 1000+ at $9.20 but I'm happy I didn't.


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

jont said:


> If you like MOW and would be happy going there, I would not hesitate to buy there.
> You can always get points at another time, they are not going anywhere.
> I could have bought a 1000+ at $9.20 but I'm happy I didn't.



There we go. Much better. I've been reading this forum for some time now and I can not stop hearing The Dude's voice every time I read your posts. Sometimes it makes it a little weird. Do I really want to take his opinion? Hmmmm he does know how to relax!


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> There we go. Much better. I've been reading this forum for some time now and I can not stop hearing The Dude's voice every time I read your posts. Sometimes it makes it a little weird. Do I really want to take his opinion? Hmmmm he does know how to relax!



I also like,you know,abide man.
now if they would put bowling alleys at all the marriotts.


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## jimf41 (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> Can't we just get out the crystal ball and tell me how the whole points -v- weeks will work out in 10 years??



CRYSTAL BALL SEARCH RESULTS- 10 year forward look

Legacy owners who converted------------------------------------Extremely happy campers
Legacy owners who converted and bought trust points---------Very happy campers
Trust owners-------------------------------------------------------Happy campers
Legacy owners who could have but have not yet converted----Unhappy campers
Legacy owners not eligible to convert----------------------------Miserable campers

Now for the last two groups, don't take this too seriously.


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

jimf41 said:


> Legacy owners not eligible to convert----------------------------Miserable campers



Stop that! I resemble that remark. 

When I mentioned that I wanted to buy a smaller points package with a resale week from Marriott, the sales guy I have talking to said: "They will not allow a smaller package of points to enroll.  They actually recently increased the amount of points to enroll a resale week.  If anything, that option will go away." That sounds plausible to me.


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> Stop that! I resemble that remark.
> 
> When I mentioned that I wanted to buy a smaller points package with a resale week from Marriott, the sales guy I have talking to said: "They will not allow a smaller package of points to enroll.  They actually recently increased the amount of points to enroll a resale week.  If anything, that option will go away." That sounds plausible to me.


Like, what was the smallest points package they would sell with a resale week, man?
This aggression will not stand!


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

jont said:


> Like, what was the smallest points package they would sell with a resale week, man?
> This aggression will not stand!



According to my guy, for now it is as others have said. Buy the same number of election points (or more, they like more too) that you would get for electing to enroll that week. In the past, you could have bought as "few" as 2,500 http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167354.

BTW, are all the late July, early Aug weeks at MOW spoken for at this point? Even if I now acquire a deeded week there?
Sorry for the thread drift...


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## slum808 (Sep 5, 2012)

I took Jont's work and added the 2011 mf cost/pt from GregT's list. Ocean Point plat OF seems to be a winner based on buy in cost and ongoing mf/pt. 

...............................................................Cost/pt........mf/pt
Barony 2BR/OF/Bronze…... $3000/1100pts………$2.73/point…..$0.91/pt
Barony 2BR/GV/Plat……..… $16700/3475pts……$4.80/point…..$0.29/pt
Barony 2BR/OF/Silver….….. $7100/2300pts…..…$3.09/point…..$0.44/pt

Beach Place 2BR/xx/Plat….. $15600/3225pts……$4.84/point…..$0.32/pt

Boston 1BR/xx/Plat…………. $13000/2950pts……$4.41/point…..$0.39/pt

Grande O 2BR/OF/Plat……... $31900/5025pts……$6.35/point…..$0.21/pt
Grande O 2BR/OS/Gold…….. $12800/3325pts……$3.84/point…..$0.33/pt
Grande O 2BR/OS/Bronze.. $2900/775pts…….…$3.74/point…..$1.40/pt

Grande V 3BR/xx/Plat…….... $12600/3725pts……$3.38/point…..$0.33/pt
Grande V 2BR/xx/Plat…...….. $8900/2775pts….…$3.20point…..$0.34/pt
Grande V 1BR/xx/Plat……..... $5000/1850pts……$2.70/point…..$0.36/pt


Manor seq 2BR/xx/Plat…….... $9500/2375pts……$4.00/point…..$0.41/pt

Ocean P 2BR/OS/Gold…….... $10900/2750pts……$3.96/point…..$0.46/pt
Ocean P 2BR/OF/Plat……….. $18300/5375pts……$3.40/point…..$0.25/pt


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## jont (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> According to my guy, for now it is as others have said. Buy the same number of election points (or more, they like more too) that you would get for electing to enroll that week. In the past, you could have bought as "few" as 2,500 http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167354.
> 
> BTW, are all the late July, early Aug weeks at MOW spoken for at this point? Even if I now acquire a deeded week there?
> Sorry for the thread drift...



so if i want to buy a resale week worth a 1000 points, i will still have to buy 2500 trust points to get enrolled in the DC?

that's a bummer!


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

jont said:


> so if i want to buy a resale week worth a 1000 points, i will still have to buy 2500 trust points to get enrolled in the DC?
> 
> that's a bummer!



Oops, i wasnt thinking. No, if the week you are buying would net 1,000 pts when enrolled, you need only buy 1,000 points. I wanted to buy a valuable resale week from Marriott (say the Ocean P 2BR/OF/Plat worth 5,375 in your example) and still just get the smallest number of points (the current 1,500 minimum).


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## slum808 (Sep 5, 2012)

Kdjk5467 said:


> Oops, i wasnt thinking. No, if the week you are buying would net 1,000 pts when enrolled, you need only buy 1,000 points. I wanted to buy a valuable resale week from Marriott (say the Ocean P 2BR/OF/Plat worth 5,375 in your example) and still just get the smallest number of points (the current 1,500 minimum).



Are you already a Marriott owner? I thought the minimum purchase for a non owner was 2500 pts?


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## Kdjk5467 (Sep 5, 2012)

slum808 said:


> Are you already a Marriott owner? I thought the minimum purchase for a non owner was 2500 pts?



It's 1,500. I'm going by their page: https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/learn-about-ownership/vacation-examples-and-pricing.shtml

1500 won't get you much though IMO.


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## OldPantry (Sep 5, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> 
> My partner got exactly what he wanted... He wanted a HHI summer oceanfront week and also wanted to be a point player!! He snagged Barony OF summer and has a point package of over 10K points (1/2 Legacy 1/2 Trust) My partner loves summer beach but doesnt want to be locked into II and 7 day stays...
> 
> ...



Well, that $5k in perks sounds nice, but ... isn't that really just a return of principal?  That is, Marriott got $70K from your friend, and handed back $5 as an incentive.  So really, he invested $65k.  For that, he got a Barony plat OF purchasable on Redweek for $14K (I just checked).  Therefore, he's spent about 50K for those 5000 Trust Points.  Sounds pretty much like $10/a point.  So where's the savings?

His 10,000 combined points (using the 5000 Barony allowance, after the 500 point skim and the 5000 purchased points) would get him a two prime 2BR weeks at most resorts at peak periods.  For that, he's paying $3300 in maintenance fees, and something like $3500 in opportunity cost (money his $70,000 would have earned invested in a nice long-term bond at 5%).  That's $485/night.  
If he had bought two Barony legacy weeks on the open market for $28,000, his yearly costs would be $2400 in maintenance fees, with an opportunity cost of $1400, a total of $3800, or $271/night.  Is the vaunted flexibility of the Vacation Club worth an extra $200+ per night?  Just askin!


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## puckmanfl (Sep 6, 2012)

good morning....

Again....

 not every one can play in weeks..for some the mixing and matching of long short stays, exact dates times are invaluable.  My partner for his 5000 trust points snagged 5 nites 3 bedroom Lakeshore during spring break... contributed to the Vail RC ski trip and has points left over..

The debate on this thread is not points or bundle package v. resale weeks.. The OP's original thoughts were using the bundle package as a discounted entry into points....

my partners purchase gives him 10 k pts (1/2 legacy 1/2 trust) at an entry fee of just under $7/pt with the guarantee of an OF Barony plat forever...

for some the exact dates, times and flexibilty of points is priceless!!!!


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## OldPantry (Sep 6, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> 
> Again....
> 
> ...



Ah, poetic exaggeration (four exclamation marks!).  Really though, you wouldn't spend $1 million for those choice weeks, would you?  

You don't actually mean priceless, you mean valuable.    And in this case, the value added is worth a 75% nightly premium?  Personally, I'd be willing to hunt around a bit to save $200 each and every night I stay at a Marriott VC.  Maybe you friend would too.

But thanks for scolding me about going off topic.  I'm sure there's a TUG rule somewhere ...


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## jont (Sep 6, 2012)

For entry people who like the flexibility of points and want to stay at Marriott resorts, they basically have the following options:

1. buy a resale week from a non Marriott source and hope that someday Marriott lets them enroll that week. 
Low cost..limited flexibility

2.Buy Trust points in the amount they need to get the vacations they want.
Big bucks...lots of flexibility

3.Buy the min. amount of points they can and rent the rest they need.
Still expensive... but flexible

4. Buy a bundled package of a week and Trust points. 
Big bucks....but flexibility and a degree of security

5.Rent the weeks they want.
you all know the advantages/disadvantages of this

6. Stay home and do nothing.


Now the points program is not for everyone, but Puck's partner made an informed decision and has the financial resources to to accomplish his goal.
God bless him. He now not only has the points and a week, he also has a network of friends who we can buy points from or sell to.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 6, 2012)

OldPantry said:


> Ah, poetic exaggeration (four exclamation marks!).  Really though, you wouldn't spend $1 million for those choice weeks, would you?
> 
> You don't actually mean priceless, you mean valuable.    And in this case, the value added is worth a 75% nightly premium?  Personally, I'd be willing to hunt around a bit to save $200 each and every night I stay at a Marriott VC.  Maybe you friend would too.
> 
> But thanks for scolding me about going off topic.  I'm sure there's a TUG rule somewhere ...



I think it is like the situation of someone wanting to buy a Porsche but is extremely happy they gave him some off of his trade in and there is a perceived image of a deal as they did not pay the list price, even though they got some off for their trade in which could have received more if they sold it themselves.

Some find it easier, they got what they want and a deal in their mind. They're happy with the deal, so they walk away with the feeling that they got better than retail.

I made the calculations earlier that his partner would have been way further ahead renting whatever points he needed and could get the same reservations for less than what he put out. It is every unlikely that he will "break even" compared to renting, but he has the pride of ownership. 

With owning two OF resale weeks, I think he could have easily got the reservations he was looking for, for a full week (whether he used the full week or not), plus 3 more trades (with lock off) and had $42K in his pocket, but at this stage, his partner is not looking for the best deal, just access to the "club". 

That's my take on it. Is that what you or I would do ? Probably not, but there is a market every type of deal. I always buy my cars used and never buy new, but if there weren't people to take the first hit for me, I wouldn't be able to buy it at 60% off a year later


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## puckmanfl (Sep 6, 2012)

good evening....


Quad.... no more exclamation points...

for whatever its worth..when my partner expressed a desire to join the club..I told him to pick some places he wanted to go and purchase some good resale weeks.  He wanted to play in points..I presented the bundle plan in contrast to a direct point purchase!!!

When i get back in the game and expand my portfolio, it will be a nice plat ski week!!!! or get a week at moc to hang with greg week 24...


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 6, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening....
> 
> 
> Quad.... no more exclamation points...



Huh ? Me ? You mean OldPantry ?


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## puckmanfl (Sep 6, 2012)

good evening...

sorry quad

losing track of things....

need a vacation.... off to myc next month..working too hard these days...

off to an education course tomorrow... hopefully refresh my brain....


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 7, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening...
> 
> sorry quad
> 
> ...



No worries


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## jaym (Sep 7, 2012)

Michigan Czar said:


> Here is a copy of an email I received from a MVCI salesman tonight. See the bold (my bolding) below, I find it interesting that they are stating in writing that there is no disadvantage.
> 
> As a reminder, incentives are up to 30% larger when purchasing direct through me here at Owner Services rather than buying at one of our resorts due to less overhead.
> *Remember; “when tomorrow comes, when was the best time to spend quality time with your loved ones – the answer is always yesterday. Which would be today – the present”.  *Remember if you have children they will seldom remember what they received for holiday gifts, but they will always remember their Family vacations.



 Although there is a nugget of truth somewhere in this salesman's quote, it sure sounds like convoluted double-speak....like someone saying, "I think you know that what I really meant to say was not what you thought I said".....


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## OldPantry (Sep 7, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I think it is like the situation of someone wanting to buy a Porsche but is extremely happy they gave him some off of his trade in and there is a perceived image of a deal as they did not pay the list price, even though they got some off for their trade in which could have received more if they sold it themselves.
> 
> Some find it easier, they got what they want and a deal in their mind. They're happy with the deal, so they walk away with the feeling that they got better than retail.
> 
> ...


Hi!!!!

Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I.  I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years.  I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.

Bringing things back to timeshares: I absolutely get things like pride of ownership, priceless memories, and the thrill of exclusivity (well, I get that last one less than the others).  But I try to be absolutely ruthless about acknowledging the costs of those things.  For people with unlimited resources,  convenience and prestige can override any concerns about cost.  However, I don't think many of those folks are here in TUG.  What most of us share is a desire for affordable luxury.  

To bring the ruthless cost discussion back to puckmanfl, his friend, and folks gamboling in the DC world:  we've all seen the huge impact of price erosion on traditional timeshare.  With prime weeks often selling at at 75% discount to developer prices, a hard-headed analysis would force one to include that discount as a cost.  Any business would do that, and a similar reality check is useful for individuals as well.  If your $35,000 week is now worth only $8,000, then amortizing that $27,000 loss over the nights spent time-sharing would provide a sobering idea of the real cost of owning that week.  
Is the situation any different for points owners?  I would say absolutely not.  I see DC points advertised on Redweek for $3.65, $7 and $8.33/point.  All of these are sharp discounts to developer pricing.  All of these are folks willing, eager, even desperate to cash out at some price.  A 5000 points owner (middle of the road) would now have a $10-30K paper loss to contemplate.  Of course, I know folks don't buy with the intention of selling soon, but how about selling SOMETIME?  If you're philosophically resigned to the loss, then you should, at least, acknowledge what a Marriott DC night actually costs. 

A purchaser of those 5000 points in 2010 might have enjoyed 21 nights of ultimate prestige and flexibility since then.  Factor in the paper loss, and those nights might have cost an ADDITIONAL $475-$1400 per night (beyond the hypothetical $450+ I mentioned before).  Thankfully, of course, holding on for umpteen years might reduce that excess cost to a mere $200-500/night.      Your great-grandchildren might even think it all ridiculously cheap.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2012)

OldPantry said:


> Hi!!!!
> 
> Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I.  I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years.  I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.
> 
> ...



I would have to agree about amortizing in the cost of that loss on the purchase price. While we purchased both of our units resale, they were before the huge crash in the market. If I don't include purchase price in to my calculation, our cost per night is about $100. However if I include that purchase prices as a cost, our cost per night jumps to $180 per night. That upfront loss has a huge impact on overall value from our standpoint.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 8, 2012)

OldPantry said:


> Hi!!!!
> 
> Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I.  I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years.  I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.



New retail for 30 minutes of smell ? You should consider going to show rooms on the weekend and sit in all the new cars - an hour of new car smell FREE!

Jeeze I though you were frugal - I lost respect when you said you bought new, lmao


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## m61376 (Sep 8, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> I would have to agree about amortizing in the cost of that loss on the purchase price. While we purchased both of our units resale, they were before the huge crash in the market. If I don't include purchase price in to my calculation, our cost per night is about $100. However if I include that purchase prices as a cost, our cost per night jumps to $180 per night. That upfront loss has a huge impact on overall value from our standpoint.



We've had this discussion so many times in the past. Purely from an actuarial standpoint "value" was questionable for many, if not most, weeks, especially those bought, even resale, before the crash of the last few years. Factoring in lost opportunity costs (ie profit from investments, although it could be a savings if one also considers investments that went down in value) and the per night cost for many weeks, if one uses a 10 year analysis, can equate to a rather painful per night cost. 

However, I think you need to think about more than just dollars and cents to justify many purchases. Like wanting that "new car smell," there is something intangible about ownership. For some, it is the feeling of owning a piece of a vacation home; for others, it is the impetus to go on vacation (if you own it, you'll use it). I know for us it was easier to make a decision to buy as a one time outlay, whereas otherwise every year it'd be the same thing- do I want to spend the money, can I find a better rate, should we do this instead, etc.- I bought it, I spent the money and it's gone regardless of what I now do, so I might as well use it and go away and enjoy an airfare+eating out cost only vacation. And, yes, I know that's a bit naive, and of course besides the initial $$ and lost opportunity costs, I have the added cost of my MF's, but that becomes almost like paying insurance and utilities- gotta pay them, but it is just another expense of daily life. 

A few weeks ago we went to Aruba with my Mom and daughter/son-in-law. If I didn't own a beautiful 3BR villa, I would have needed to rent 3 hotel rooms. I know me- I would have a hard time justifying that expense, and the trip probably never would have been planned. But since I own a 3BR in Aruba, I went in 2012 and can look forward to going in 2013 with my family. 

One more thing- if we are purely calculating costs, we need to calculate how much we save by having a kitchen, even if we go out for dinner most nights. We did before we bought, and felt it probably largely offset the annual MF's.

Maybe it's just my justified way of looking at things, but since it was a relatively cheap vacation when looking at just our recent outlay, it was easy to justify buying that beautiful necklace my DH picked out for me :rofl: and a bracelet as a surprise gift for our DD  :whoopie: ...and now, you know where my priorities lie!!


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## puckmanfl (Sep 8, 2012)

good morning...

all of this devaluation, actuarial stuff drives me goofy....

all I know is that I work in a level II trauma center that sees 160,000 pts per year.  Every day, patients put their lives in the hands of our incredibly gifted and dedicated staff...  They do amazing work under difficult conditions...

when we vacation (to recharge our batteries) we (at least I) don't get to crazy about actuarial valuations, opportunity cost and all of the other stuff.  From a pure financial perspective timesharing, even with Tug dogma and resale purchases is probably a bad idea....

p.s my partner who did the bundle plan owns a boat..probably not a great idea either, form a $$$ standpoint

All I know is the following....

I am going to NYC for a fall week Times Square "on Marriott"...
I am going to the Ritz Carlton Vail for 5 nites with a 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom with my partners... these rooms go for $1500 and $2000/night and NOT avaialble on redweek or other off market sites
I am going to Atlantis in June (right!!! sb3213)
Have 2 units at Grande Ocean 7/20-7/26 for a big family trip!!!!

Yes I purchased retaill...yes  wish I had done it before 6/20/10 resale but oh well...

I just love timesharing....

most of all  without the ownership...would not be here with my TUG friends..

without timesharing I would never have presented GregT with his own TBL jersey...and had fine wine at Bern's..

p.s  I own 2 horses  talk about bad financial decisions....


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## jont (Sep 8, 2012)

Some people live for today
Some people live for tomorrow

All I know is that I don't know how many tomorrows I have


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## puckmanfl (Sep 8, 2012)

good morning....

I live for today..
while trying to maximize the tomorrows..for myself, family and patients!!!

just my way....If I can get in a few skates along the way all the better!!!!

not to be greedy but one more Stanley Cup and jobs for my kids would be nice too... so they can afford the MF's on my Legacy weeks...


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## OldPantry (Sep 8, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> New retail for 30 minutes of smell ? You should consider going to show rooms on the weekend and sit in all the new cars - an hour of new car smell FREE!
> 
> Jeeze I though you were frugal - I lost respect when you said you bought new, lmao



It was poetic exaggeration!!!!
That nice smell lasted for several days.  Priceless!!!!


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## OldPantry (Sep 8, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning...
> 
> all of this devaluation, actuarial stuff drives me goofy....
> Yes I purchased retaill...yes  wish I had done it before 6/20/10 resale but oh well...
> ...



Well, that last comment says it all, doesn't it?  Sure, we are all here for a short time, and need to unwind in the meantime.  Sure, it would be silly to beat ourselves up endlessly about past foolishness ... UNLESS that self-flagellation helps us make better decisions going forward.  

I see no coherence between bad financial decisions and seizing the day.  I would suggest that you can have all (OK, nearly all) the good things you extol at a hugely lower price.   And that's really why I'm poking my nose into this thread.  You've been describing a financial decision made very recently that seem to me to be a repetition of the kinds of choices you yourself now regret.  You and your friend have jumped aboard, but other TUGgers might still be wondering about whether the DC is a good idea, particularly in a financial sense.  I think most of them would back away, if they figured out the real costs involved.  

By the way, I can say I enjoy my frugal Marriott stays (resale) just as much as my more expensive (legacy) ones.  Maybe even as much as you enjoy yours.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 8, 2012)

good afternoon....

I don't regret anything... sure in a perfect world I would have purchased my 4 weeks resale and enrolled... but OH well....

I am the happiest timeshare owner ever...

My horses bring my perfect cash drain so much joy....

no regrets...to infinity and beyond!!!!


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## jont (Sep 8, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon....
> 
> I don't regret anything... sure in a perfect world I would have purchased my 4 weeks resale and enrolled... but OH well....
> 
> ...



Speaking of cash drains.......would any one of us really want to have children if we actually knew the total cost involved?

Of course we would!!!!!!!
Thanks mom and dad.


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## Docklander (Sep 8, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> I am going to the Ritz Carlton Vail for 5 nites with a 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom with my partners... these rooms go for $1500 and $2000/night and NOT avaialble on redweek or other off market sites



Pardon my ignorance, but what's to stop someone booking the RC with their points and posting it for rent on Redweek?


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## puckmanfl (Sep 8, 2012)

good afternoon

none at all...yes i could rent my Vail units!!!! no way...!!

was just trying to say that there is no current availability on redweek for RC Vail.  Everytime I mention a break over rack room rates on website by using timeshare, I get the obligatory "rack room rates aren't the real value...you can rent on redweek...thing....

was just jumping the gun a bit....


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## dioxide45 (Sep 8, 2012)

Docklander said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what's to stop someone booking the RC with their points and posting it for rent on Redweek?



Since the RC properties are available through the Explorer Collection, do we know if you can add someone other than yourself to the confirmation?


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## fluke (Sep 8, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Since the RC properties are available through the Explorer Collection, do we know if you can add someone other than yourself to the confirmation?



Vail is not through the explorer collection - that is through the DC from the trust. That should work like any other reservation.

  But a good question about the rest.  If I have a chance I'll call and see w/ my St. Thomas reservation.


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## OldPantry (Sep 8, 2012)

jont said:


> Speaking of cash drains.......would any one of us really want to have children if we actually knew the total cost involved?
> 
> Of course we would!!!!!!!
> Thanks mom and dad.



Ah, but they're an investment!  Why the many guilt trips I've given my kids have been priceless!


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## jont (Sep 8, 2012)

OldPantry said:


> Ah, but they're an investment!  Why the many guilt trips I've given my kids have been priceless!


 You beter be careful! You're going to depend on them someday. Lol


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## Beefnot (Sep 8, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon
> 
> none at all...yes i could rent my Vail units!!!! no way...!!
> 
> ...



Renting those Ritz Carltons would be a coup. That would be some serious cash. That might actually make joining the DC a financial investment.


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## puckmanfl (Sep 8, 2012)

good evening....

Going to Vail   I am really stoked....  no rentals..only more partners that are joining the trip....


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## JeffandJamie (Sep 20, 2012)

*New to Timeshares*

So our neighbors just bought into Marriott in Aruba Surf Club and we really like the idea of owning a timeshare.  We are trying to determine what will be best for us to purchase.  We love the Marriotts and the flexibility of the points system but it seems like they've made it impossible to buy re-sale.  Thoughts?  Is there a better points system to get started in?


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## slum808 (Sep 20, 2012)

Hilton has a great point system, but currently lacks the locations that Marriott offers. Wyndham has a point system with many resorts, mostly on the east coast and Worldmark with resorts on the West coast. 

If you'd like to join your neighbores in Aruba, I believe Aruba weeks bought through Marriott resale can still be enrolled in the Destinations club without an additional point purchase. Not as cheap as resale, but cheaper than buying trust points.


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## JeffandJamie (Sep 20, 2012)

*Thanks for the pointers!*



slum808 said:


> Hilton has a great point system, but currently lacks the locations that Marriott offers. Wyndham has a point system with many resorts, mostly on the east coast and Worldmark with resorts on the West coast.
> 
> If you'd like to join your neighbores in Aruba, I believe Aruba weeks bought through Marriott resale can still be enrolled in the Destinations club without an additional point purchase. Not as cheap as resale, but cheaper than buying trust points.



The only place we've been to so far has been the Marriott Ocean Club where we stayed in a 2 bedroom lock-off.  It was a great place to stay but we really do not have much to compare it to.  We are young so we do not have a lot of vacation experience but when we go anywhere, we usually go for the less expensive hotels. We'd like to try to do more, and a timeshare is our "excuse" to have a nice place to stay.  

We are considering trying the other resorts i.e. Wyndham and Hilton through renting a week before we make a purchase.  Marriott is very nice but it seems like they are attempting to make it almost impossible to buy resale and that concerns me for the long run if we ever did need to sell.

Buying resale DVC points still seems like an option but it takes away the perk of converting to hotel points (not a big deal to us).  So I'm keeping my eyes out for points resales.  I saw someone earlier in this thread mentioned a min $2000 fee basically to be able to use your points you purchased.  Is that a pretty straight forward process?  Or is it one big headache and not worth the $k you save? 

Thank you again!

Jamie


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## slum808 (Sep 20, 2012)

No one on tug has reported buying resale points. The governing docs apparently allow Marriott to restric the use of resale points, but other Tuggers have quoted conversations with Marriott that says otherwise. If you really want to pursue DC points I would use the package option, buy Aruba and enroll, or my favorite just rent.

Maintenance fees are currently $.41/pt and going up to I belive $.43. You can currently rent points for $.55-$.60/ point. You'll need the owner to make the reservation for you. Tuggers GregT and steventing started the site below to help owners. Renting is a great way to testdrive the system.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 21, 2012)

JeffandJamie said:


> So our neighbors just bought into Marriott in Aruba Surf Club and we really like the idea of owning a timeshare.  We are trying to determine what will be best for us to purchase.  We love the Marriotts and the flexibility of the points system but it seems like they've made it impossible to buy re-sale.  Thoughts?  Is there a better points system to get started in?



Is there a reason why you would not consider buying Aruba on resale (not from Marriott and just use it if you really want Aruba and not worry about the points ? It would be much cheaper buying resale on eBay or the marketplace here than Marriott resale or developer sale. Or buy a cheaper Marriott and trade into Aruba ? 

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation. Points do give added flexibility but many of us manage quite well without points. I guess it all depends on how much you are prepare to pay for this flexibility. If you really like Marriotts buy a resale and trade into a few of the places to see what you think. If you really must have points you can later buy a resale from Marriott. Baby steps


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## m61376 (Sep 21, 2012)

As suggested above, esp. if there is a place you'd like to revisit half the time or so, buying a resale week there is probably your best bet- it is the most economical way to get into the system, and guarantees you a reservation in your season at your home resort. Pure points owners have no home resort, and even with points it is subject to availability. Points do give you more flexibility, but the cost may or may not be worth it to you.

If you are considering other point systems rent a week from someone and make sure you like the accommodations, and feel free to ask a lot of questions on this and other forums here on Tug; don't buy until you understand the ins and outs of what you are purchasing. Timeshares are easy to buy, but hard to sell, so try to make an informed purchase.


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## JeffandJamie (Sep 21, 2012)

*Points vs week*

Thank you for all the input! The points systems really appeal to us because right now, we don't want to go to the same place every year. The points seem like the easiest way to go somewhere new every year.  Aruba was great but we don't want to be stuck going there every year.  Like I said, we haven't traveled much so far (we are in our late 20s) and want to go everywhere!

How easy is trading? If we did buy a Marriott resale say in Aruba is it an easy trade on II?  An I able to check out II before I'm an owner?

Thanks Tuggers for all you're expertise! We are taking our time to learn first then buy. One other thing, eBay auctions for $1.00?  What's the catch?

Jamie


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 21, 2012)

If those are your goals you are much better off buying a platinum resale like Marriott Willow Ridge for under $1K and trading into places like Aruba, Hawaii, etc. MF is $900 compared to buying in Maui for example where you might pay $12K island view and $2200 MF. Owning any Marriott gets you internal priority on II for other Marriott's. 

Trading into Marriotts are not that difficult except for peak holiday periods, even then it is not impossible. In the last year, I have traded into Marriott in Maui and Oahu 4 times in the last 8 months and this was before I purchased Marriott and Starwood for internal priority. This included Christmas and spring break. My ability to trade had jumped dramatically since then. You don't need points to make great trades. You don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get great vacations.


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