# most popular wyndham rental properties



## jumpercat (Nov 14, 2012)

Good Morning...I will be closing very soon on 1,105,000 wyndham points and will be attempting to make reservations for 2013.  Looking to rent all the properties and would like any advise on the best weeks and best locations to make reservations based on your experience.  I know I may have a hard time getting reservations since I will be late in doing so but would appreciate any help with the best rental properties.  Thinking Tennesse for fall, California for summer, maybe Sedona and Flagstaff...any feedback would be helpful. Sure would appreciate advise from anyone with any Wyndham property rental experience.  Thanks!!


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 14, 2012)

1.1MM points is alot of MFs. Where is your ARP? That is what you need if you don't have the 50% discount and free upgrade VIP accounts.

Might have asked us all before you jumped with both feet into the boiling pot.

PS "Wyndham rental properties"? These are timeshare resorts and the owners love their resorts and vacations. Wish you much luck ...


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## SOS8260456 (Nov 14, 2012)

I wish you luck in your new venture.  I do agree with Linda that you should have done A LOT more research before jumping in the pot, especially with one million Wydham points.  

If you had done basic reading of the all the daily posts since you joined, you should already have a basic idea of some rental ideas.

For full disclosure, we do Wyndham rentals to offset our maintenance fees.  While I enjoy helping people, the competition out there right now for Wyndham rentals is very tough and you have people renting stuff for under the average Wyndham maintenance fee cost.   Asking the question that you did, is very similiar to asking KFC for their secret recipe.

However, again, as I mentioned above, if you just read these forums, some things will jump out at you.  I personally know alot of information has been posted since you became a member of this board,  information that covered both hot properties to rent and information that included some very important problems that you need to watch out for when renting certain Wyndham properties.


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## ronparise (Nov 14, 2012)

I just posted on your other thread.  Now I know a little more about what you are trying to do.

A million points is, contrary to popular opinion, not a lot of points. four to ten decent rentals perhaps more if you just do long weekends.

Just any week, just anywhere is not going to make you any money, you need to find those special weeks in special places and make those reservations. 

So where are they? I asked the same question when I started renting, and ran into the same brick wall you are. either no one wants to share their secrets, or more likely there are no secrets...lts just hard work and a little experience or luck thrown in for good measure

What Im going to say here seems obvious (ie its no secret) and it is good advice, but it wont help you for a while, and may never unless you own for ARP

Daytona; bike week
New Orleans; Mardi Gras (and in 2013 the week before  for SuperBowl)
South Florida; Winter weeks
Presidents week at Bently Brook

There are others in the system but the problem is the same for all of them
and that is that there is never any availability you can count on. The guys with ARP snap these up well in advance of the 10 month mark

With my Wyndham points I make my money on a few of the high value reservations I can book, and lose money on the rest. (Its my fixed weeks that make me the real money I can count on)  But at the end of the year I usually have more money than I started with so Im happy. . 

None of this is to say you cant do well at almost any resort renting to the locals, but you have to know the area and know the resorts and know the market. (and I dont know where)  For example, I grew up in the Washington/Baltimore metro area. and I know Ocean City is where everyone goes in August.  if  Wyndham had a presence in Ocean City Md, I would reserve as many July and August weeks as I could and advertise in Washington and Baltimore. 

Find a place like that in the Wyndham system and you will do well.

Or you can make your own market.  I heard of a guy that rented multiple units at a ski resort for one week. He then rented them all as package trips where he supplied the lift tickets  and  lessons and even baby sitting for the kids. I think he sold out the whole trip at one church as a fundraiser. Thinking about churches, Why couldnt you set up a religious retreat and rent multiple units to the members of some church?

To make this work you are going to have to get creative, or get lucky and work at it  ...  but hard work is probably not enough

One last story. Just recently I bought nearly a million points from a guy that tried to make a go of it renting Wyndham reservations...he made multiple reservations for a sports event that he "knew" would be easy to rent.......He couldnt rent one of them and  ended up cancelling all the reservations. He was so soured on Wyndham and renting that I was able to buy his points at a very low price. The punch line to this story (although my seller didnt find it too funny) was that I had rented 22 units for the same game. and I could have done more if I had the points

So why is it that some people just cant make rentals work for them...I dont know, but I wish you luck


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## SOS8260456 (Nov 14, 2012)

Between this thread and your other one I think by now you should have an idea of whose posts can be extremely helpful to you.  I just didn't want to mention someone by name. 

But I did want to emphasize that reading and researching beforehand can go a long way.  Especially since you are jumping into this as a business right from the beginning.


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## chapjim (Nov 14, 2012)

I'll tell you flat out.  If you are not VIP Gold or Platinum, you will have an extremely hard time breaking even.  Every single one of your reservations will have to be a winner and you'll have to rent every single of them at a premium price.  

That will be difficult if for no other reason than if you and I have identical units available, I will sell mine for about 2/3 or 3/4 of what yours costs you in points.   You may sell yours but your margin will be very thin.

Then, I'll recover half the points and make more reservations down the line, then do it again and again.  I will make reservations costing almost twice the number of points I own.  There are a bunch of us doing the same thing.

That said, I agree with Ron's assessment.  Find event weeks whether they be big splashy ones like Mardi Gras, the Super Bowl, and Bike Week or lesser events with an intense but not widespread following.

It will take time and work to succeed.  Find a niche and work it.


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## MFT (Nov 14, 2012)

I agree with Ron, that "One million points" (as I hold my pinky finger to the side of my mouth...), is anywhere from 3 - 6 fair to decent weeks.  And without ARP, it may be difficult to get decent weeks at decent resorts.  But you should work with your local market, and offer to rent to those you know.  

Getting a circle of customers who can contact you, give you dates and where they want to go, and let you run through the Wyndham (and RCI) availability for that period works pretty well.  I've rented out Myrtle Beach and Orlando to family to burn up points, but I only sold them at $7/K (to cover my MF, and my troubles).  One got a 2BR at Ocean Blvd in April for about $100 a night, the other Orange Lake Resort a 2BR in Feb for about $150 a night.  

Some things to remember, and this is a sticky part.  Some resorts are very restrictive on what your guest gets.  Smuggler's Notch doesn't give their activity package that owners get, to guests....  Something very wrong with that...  

So make sure to check with the resorts and see if guests get all benefits of the owner (of course not VIP... but at least the resort packages, etc.).

Good luck!


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 14, 2012)

He also does not get free RTs or HKs --- booking/rebooking and short stays will also eat up his profits along with the $99 GC.

Suggest he becomes a specialist in the RESORT SPECIALS offerings - 8 weeks out and with a discount. He could use his WEB site to update his "following" with the special of the week. Book ONLY if the person pays in advance via Paypal.


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## lcml11 (Nov 14, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> He also does not get free RTs or HKs --- booking/rebooking and short stays will also eat up his profits along with the $99 GC.
> 
> Suggest he becomes a specialist in the RESORT SPECIALS offerings - 8 weeks out and with a discount. He could use his WEB site to update his "following" with the special of the week. Book ONLY if the person pays in advance via Paypal.



Coming on down to the real world, without VIP status, the treads have done a great job describing the problems of having about  1 million points for rental purposes.  The paths outlined are good ones if the deal goes through.  The Original Poster should, as a practical matter, be prepared to use the points for his own personal use and enjoyment, doing resort special rentals to family and friends.  This, I think, is the only possable viable route for a account at that point level.


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## lcml11 (Nov 14, 2012)

ronparise said:


> ... None of this is to say you cant do well at almost any resort renting to the locals, but you have to know the area and know the resorts and know the market. (and I dont know where)  For example, I grew up in the Washington/Baltimore metro area. and I know Ocean City is where everyone goes in August.  if  Wyndham had a presence in Ocean City Md, I would reserve as many July and August weeks as I could and advertise in Washington and Baltimore ...



I have stayed at the Wyndham affiliate in Ocean City Md, it is Coconut Malorie Resort.  I would strongly recommend you stay there before you try renting it.  I would not return.

It can be searched for by clicking on Northeast and then click on Coconut Malorie Resort.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Nov 14, 2012)

jumpercat said:


> Good Morning...I will be closing very soon on 1,105,000 wyndham points and will be attempting to make reservations for 2013.  Looking to rent all the properties and would like any advise on the best weeks and best locations to make reservations based on your experience.  I know I may have a hard time getting reservations since I will be late in doing so but would appreciate any help with the best rental properties.  Thinking Tennesse for fall, California for summer, maybe Sedona and Flagstaff...any feedback would be helpful. Sure would appreciate advise from anyone with any Wyndham property rental experience.  Thanks!!



What a bad idea this is. Get out of this resale deal even if it takes loosing upto few thousand dollars now, as compared to loosing tens of thousands of dollars (and few years of your life) in the years to come. Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is my honest opinion.


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## ronparise (Nov 15, 2012)

lcml11 said:


> I have stayed at the Wyndham affiliate in Ocean City Md, it is Coconut Malorie Resort.  I would strongly recommend you stay there before you try renting it.  I would not return.
> 
> It can be searched for by clicking on Northeast and then click on Coconut Malorie Resort.



Ocean city was my example of a vacation area near a major metropolitan area, The sort of place where *if* Wyndham had a presence he might make a go of it. Wyndham doesnt have a real presence there, There is not enough availability at Coconut Malorie  to make it work as a rental property for Wyndham owners....Im sorry I brought it up

My point was that the op needs to find a place like this where Wyndham does have a presence.


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## ronparise (Nov 15, 2012)

well Mr jumpercat

I wonder if Ray got the same encouragement when he decided to sell 15 cent hamburgers, or what kind of encouragement J Willard  got when he opened his root beer stand. I m sure Sams friends didnt  encouraged him when he decided to open a discount store. And it was probably no different when the two Steves tried to sell their first computer. 

What you are planning is not easy, but its not rocket science either. Whats the worst that can happen...you lose a few dollars and you get to enjoy some nice vacations

Dont let us discourage you

Good luck


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## chriskre (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't rent out my points because I own too few, but I do rent from megaowners when I run out of my own points.  It's actually cheaper sometimes for me to rent than use my own points.  

I think building a buyer base of people interested in renting from you might be a good way to go with this.  I know that people are always asking me if they can rent my points to go to Bonnet Creek.  I'm active on a Disney forum so when the DVC crowd runs out of points some of them hit Bonnet Creek.  

Maybe Bonnet Creek might be a good place to try your hand at a few rentals, especially if you can get some of those Presidential units.


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## slip (Nov 15, 2012)

I agree with Ron, we're being a little negative here. He didn't say he didn't 
think about this before hand and he doesn't have any ideas of his own. He's
just asking for suggestions. In the other post, he never said, what he was asking
would have affected his decision to start this. Sounds like he decided he was 
going to do it and wanted to make sure it he's doing it right.

A million points is a lot to others and not so much to some. It could be only a
few weeks and he may be able to use them if they don't rent or otherwise like
Ron said rent them for a small loss or a total loss. It takes a while to start 
sometimes.

Jumpercat, let us know how it's going.


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## jumpercat (Nov 15, 2012)

I will definitely let you guys know my progress and so appreciate your help .  I must say I think it helps that I live in new York and talk to a lot of people everyday in my real job.  I have a lot of people interested but again interested and actual renters are two different things.  I do not expect to get rich quick but hope to get a little something going so when I retire in a couple of years, I will have a little cash and something to do in my spare time.  Thanks to all for your support!!


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## lcml11 (Nov 15, 2012)

jumpercat said:


> I will definitely let you guys know my progress and so appreciate your help .  I must say I think it helps that I live in new York and talk to a lot of people everyday in my real job.  I have a lot of people interested but again interested and actual renters are two different things.  I do not expect to get rich quick but hope to get a little something going so when I retire in a couple of years, I will have a little cash and something to do in my spare time.  Thanks to all for your support!!



Since you have some interest being shown by co-workers, you are in a great spot for weekend getaways.  Shawnee Village and Atlantic City are within reach for this type of getaway.  May some others in the Northeast.  I do well on short notice reservations for Friday and Saturdays nights within about a 3 hour drive.  You potiental customers may be interested in this.  I do not watch Resort Specials, but some of these resorts may have some from time to time.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 15, 2012)

The problem with renting Atlantic City Skyline Tower is the casinos offer just about FREE lodging and a regular AC visitor long ago mastered the freebie world there.

Shawnee has 5 different villages - some with better point values and again many have a love/hate relationsip with your hopeful client base. There are almost NO UNIT UPGRADES recognized by the HOA - but VIPs do get their discounts.

I would suggest a further trips like National Harbor or Olde Town Alexandria or Williamsburg (which they can get to via Amtrak train ... nephew did that to join the family one Thanksgiving).

Again, look at the resort specials ....


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 15, 2012)

I own just under a 1M in points but have VIP Platinum perks.  I use 20-25% of my points personally and my family and friends take the other 75% of the points.  It would not be such a great deal if I had to pay transactions fees, housekeeping fees and guest certificate fees.  I have unlimited transactions and housekeeping and have enought Guest certs that I always have some left by the end of the year.

I have, via friends and word of mouth, got a small group of mainly repeat rental customers.  I generally do not book a key date and hope to rent it, rather I take requests and try to fill them.  So I don't advertise and don't try to catch renters, I have them come to me.   Perhaps I have trained them well. 

In an earlier post I commented on by use of VIP Platinum perks.  This year I made 19 reservations, only 2 were NOT in the discount period, and only 4 did not get a complimentary upgrade.   So I utilized about 2.3M "worth" of points by using my 0.75 Million Points and my VIP.  

I have tried occassionally to find that week(s) in Wyndham to try to rent, like a holiday week, Mrytle Beach summer, etc.  But frankly I can't be bothered to look for renters.  Then I have advertising costs and have to field calls from people who want to low ball, want a different week, etc.

Instead I have renters requesting inventory from me.  Many of them have gotten smarter too, they look at the wyndham site where there are resorts and then they ask me what I think the likelihood is that inventory will be available when and where they want it.  Obviously it has worked out ok in that 17 of my reservations were during the discount period.


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## billybilbo (Nov 15, 2012)

This may seem naive, as I am rather new at posting, but can we post for weekends, two-day stays, etc.?  And where do I do that?

I am unable to use some stays due to illness of a family member, and I have given these stays to relatives.  I enjoy doing this for them, but I would like to know how to go about renting short stays on short notice.  Thanks.


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## PassionForTravel (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't own Wyndham (have Worldmark) but have been following this thread. A lot of the conclusions seem to be that unless a person is a VIP or had fixed weeks (or ARP) to reserve a special week you couldn't make money or maybe even break even. So use for personal use. Which begs the question if someone can rent cheaper than a non-vip can reserve, why own, or is it the guest fee which is killing everything? 

Ian


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## Cheryl20772 (Nov 15, 2012)

PassionForTravel said:


> I don't own Wyndham (have Worldmark) but have been following this thread. A lot of the conclusions seem to be that unless a person is a VIP or had fixed weeks (or ARP) to reserve a special week you couldn't make money or maybe even break even. So use for personal use. Which begs the question if someone can rent cheaper than a non-vip can reserve, why own, or is it the guest fee which is killing everything?
> 
> Ian


That is the truth and it's the reason many owners will tell prospective owners to not buy now...it's usually cheaper to rent.

Every year now I see my week at a non-Wyndham resort for rent for less than my weeks costs to own.  It really makes me feel stupid to have paid for a timeshare.  It was a different world years ago when we bought.  The market might change again, but for today, it's most often cheaper to rent than to own.


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## markb53 (Nov 15, 2012)

billybilbo said:


> This may seem naive, as I am rather new at posting, but can we post for weekends, two-day stays, etc.?  And where do I do that?
> 
> I am unable to use some stays due to illness of a family member, and I have given these stays to relatives.  I enjoy doing this for them, but I would like to know how to go about renting short stays on short notice.  Thanks.



I am not sure I understand your question:
You have Wyndham Points that are expiring this year and you will not be able to use them and your relatives can't use them either. Is that correct? If I have that right. You could book something at a popular place and try to rent by posting to the last minute rentals area. The maximum you can ask for is $100.00 per night. Though you might have some trouble getting something at a popular location at this late date.


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## ronparise (Nov 15, 2012)

PassionForTravel said:


> I don't own Wyndham (have Worldmark) but have been following this thread. A lot of the conclusions seem to be that unless a person is a VIP or had fixed weeks (or ARP) to reserve a special week you couldn't make money or maybe even break even. So use for personal use. Which begs the question if someone can rent cheaper than a non-vip can reserve, why own, or is it the guest fee which is killing everything?
> 
> Ian



So you have discovered our dirty little secret

The emperor has no clothes

It is cheaper to rent and thats why Wyndham points sell for so little on the secondary market

but it is only cheaper to rent unless it isnt...

someone is going to be at National Harbor or Old Town for the Inauguration for less than a thousand dollars a week

and in New Orleans for a super  Superbowl weekend for under $300

Christmas with Mickey Mouse, spring break in Panama City, Bike week in Daytona, back to National Harbor for the Cherry Blossoms and 4th of July 

I buy for the exceptions


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## bnoble (Nov 15, 2012)

> Which begs the question if someone can rent cheaper than a non-vip can reserve, why own, or is it the guest fee which is killing everything?


The VIP advantage only really comes into play on inventory that has a reasonable chance of being around at 60 days or less.  There's a much more even footing for more in-demand weeks (ignoring the cancel-and-rebook trick, which usually but does not always work.)

For example, I have a 2BR week over Easter/Cherry Blossom coming up at Alexandria.  Those were completely gone within about an hour or two of reservations opening that morning.  A VIP owner isn't going to get a discount on that unless they want to take a risk of losing it entirely---that might be a risk worth taking if you are holding it and still haven't rented it by the 60 day mark, but in the meantime they've tied up the full points amount for the reservation for 8 months, and can't put those points to use some other way.

That's another example of one of Ron's exceptions, I suppose.  There is still inventory at National Harbor for that week, though, and perhaps that will be an opportunity for someone.  But, I'd rather be at Alexandria: the point costs are lower and it is a much more convenient location for sightseeing around DC.


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## SOS8260456 (Nov 15, 2012)

There were big time Wyndham renters way before the "cancel and rebook" trick came along.

I think the big killer is the $99 guest cert fee.  If I want to send someone for a 2 or 3 night short notice get away, the $99 needs to be tacked on.  As a VIP platinum, we have a set amount of free guest certificates, but I have to decide if I really want to waste one on a very short stay.  Say I want to rent a 2 bedroom unit for $100 a night for 3 nights.  When I have to add on the GC fee, that ups the nightly rate to $133.33, almost 30%.  Again, though, the big time renter just includes it as a cost of doing business.  It is the small time renter that gets hurt by it.

Also, there are alot of WYndham renters who rent more to cover their costs, than to make a profit and this is where some stiff competition can come into play.


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## vacationhopeful (Nov 15, 2012)

SOS8260456 said:


> There were big time Wyndham renters way before the "cancel and rebook" trick came along.
> 
> I think the big killer is the $99 guest cert fee.  If I want to send someone for a 2 or 3 night short notice get away, the $99 needs to be tacked on.  As a VIP platinum, we have a set amount of free guest certificates, but I have to decide if I really want to waste one on a very short stay.  Say I want to rent a 2 bedroom unit for $100 a night for 3 nights.  When I have to add on the GC fee, that ups the nightly rate to $133.33, almost 30%.  Again, though, the big time renter just includes it as a cost of doing business.  It is the small time renter that gets hurt by it.
> 
> Also, there are alot of WYndham renters who rent more to cover their costs, than to make a profit and this is where some stiff competition can come into play.



I figure $50 for each GC - averages the costs of my "free" GCs and my $99 paid for GCs. 

If someone wants to undercut me on the rental rate - have at it. Keep trying to get reliable customers on the internet. The internet will make sure the bargain hunters keep you occupied with endless searches and you subsizing their vacations. Reasonable people KNOW there is a cost to stay at a Wyndham or Hyatt or Marriott - it is not free. Yes, you might get a bargain 2 or 3 days before checkin - but 2 months before checkin? You will more than make up your savings in better airfare rates, cheaper rental cars, event tickets brought, etc.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Nov 15, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> I figure $50 for each GC - averages the costs of my "free" GCs and my $99 paid for GCs.
> 
> If someone wants to undercut me on the rental rate - have at it. Keep trying to get reliable customers on the internet. The internet will make sure the bargain hunters keep you occupied with endless searches and you subsizing their vacations. Reasonable people KNOW there is a cost to stay at a Wyndham or Hyatt or Marriott - it is not free. Yes, you might get a bargain 2 or 3 days before checkin - but 2 months before checkin? You will more than make up your savings in better airfare rates, cheaper rental cars, event tickets brought, etc.



The issue is the overall reputation and quality of Wyndham resorts as compared to Marriott, Hilton, starwood, and disney.  Generally speaking, Wyndham 2 bedrooms cost more than Marriott/disney/starwood 2 bedrooms in MFs, but command way less in rental. 

There are thousands of Wyndham owners who are willing to get rid of their points/reservations at cost or below costs (well ahead of check in time). Not so much for other top resorts.


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## massvacationer (Nov 15, 2012)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> The issue is the overall reputation and quality of Wyndham resorts as compared to Marriott, Hilton, starwood, and disney.  Generally speaking, Wyndham 2 bedrooms cost more than Marriott/disney/starwood 2 bedrooms in MFs, but command way less in rental.
> 
> There are thousands of Wyndham owners who are willing to get rid of their points/reservations at cost or below costs (well ahead of check in time). Not so much for other top resorts.



I agree with some of what you say,  but MF at Wyndham resorts, on average, are lower than Marriott, Starwood, & Disney - no question about it.


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## ronparise (Nov 15, 2012)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> The issue is the overall reputation and quality of Wyndham resorts as compared to Marriott, Hilton, starwood, and disney.  Generally speaking, Wyndham 2 bedrooms cost more than Marriott/disney/starwood 2 bedrooms in MFs, but command way less in rental.
> 
> There are thousands of Wyndham owners who are willing to get rid of their points/reservations at cost or below costs (well ahead of check in time). Not so much for other top resorts.



I dont own Marriott or Starwood, so I cant speak with any authority about maintenance fees, except to say I think you are wrong. if Wyndhan isnt cheaper Id be surprised...And Wyndham is certainly easier (cheaper) to buy

You are probably right that the average Marriott will command a much higher rent than the average Wyndham but those of us that do this seriously, dont care about averages. Most of us have developed a certain speciality and do ok within it ...I guarantee you that I will do better with my Wyndham in New Orleans or Washington DC or Daytona Beach or San Francisco or the Wisconsin Dells than you will with a Marriott....oh right; there are no Marriotts in those places

Our competition isnt the guy that owns Marriott.  Nor is it the guy that needs to dump Wyndham points. He hasnt had the foresight to lock up multiple superbowl weekends, or winter weeks on the South Florida beaches, or Bike week.


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## bnoble (Nov 16, 2012)

An in-season 2BR week at the least expensive DVC resort (OKW), in terms of MFs, runs about $1,540.  Add in acquisition costs at, say, 7% annual cost-of-capital.  An OKW resale for that high season 2BR would run you about $13,000, give or take.  Annual carrying costs on that are another $930ish.  Total cost of that week is now about $2,745.  Street price of that rental?  About $3,000.  Not much profit: an ROI of 9% and change.

You can raise (or lower) the returns by changing your assumptions about cost of capital, but in 2042, that $13,000 is worth nothing, because DVC is right-to-use, and that's when the contract expires.  So, at minimum, CoC is 3 1/3%.  Interest rates are low, so maybe you can squeeze it down to 5%.   Still, that's a cost of $2,190.  Better, with an ROI of 37%, but still not great.

Compare that to Wyndham.  A high-season week at Bonnet is 224K.  At an average cost of about $5.25/K, that's about $1,175.  Acquisition costs: $0.  To get in the ROI range of 10-37%, you need to rent the week for between $1,300 and about $1,600.

That's hard, but maybe not impossible with the right weeks: Christmas, New Years, Easter, and maybe President's or Thanksgiving.

The other thing that can benefit a small-time landlord in the short run: timeshare rental is a pretty opaque market.  There is no Expedia equivalent for timeshares.  Sure, there's TUG, and Redweek, but most random people have no idea that such places exist.  That won't last forever, of course, but while it does it means you can use "regular hotels" as your comparison point when you advertise.  And, at that point, $200 for a luxury 2BR in Orlando for President's Week doesn't sound so bad.

Disclaimer: I'm not a landlord, so I might have no idea what I'm talking about.  We use all of our timeshare assets for ourselves or family, and every time I've looked at the rental business, I conclude that I'd be better off spending more time on my day job(s).


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## chapjim (Nov 17, 2012)

It's not often that I disagree with your analyses but I have to dissent here.

Ray Kroc, JW Willard, and Sam Walton were true entrepreneurs.  They stepped out where others did not.

The OP is trying something that has been and is being tried by many others, including you and me.  However, he has fewer assets and less understanding of what he is doing so something innovative is unlikely.  That is a recipe for failure.

Jim 


ronparise said:


> well Mr jumpercat
> 
> I wonder if Ray got the same encouragement when he decided to sell 15 cent hamburgers, or what kind of encouragement J Willard  got when he opened his root beer stand. I m sure Sams friends didnt  encouraged him when he decided to open a discount store. And it was probably no different when the two Steves tried to sell their first computer.
> 
> ...


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## am1 (Nov 17, 2012)

chapjim said:


> It's not often that I disagree with your analyses but I have to dissent here.
> 
> Ray Kroc, JW Willard, and Sam Walton were true entrepreneurs.  They stepped out where others did not.
> 
> ...



I work every day of the year, and have millions more points than the OP and years of knowledge but nowhere close to those guys.


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## ronparise (Nov 17, 2012)

chapjim said:


> It's not often that I disagree with your analyses but I have to dissent here.
> 
> Ray Kroc, JW Willard, and Sam Walton were true entrepreneurs.  They stepped out where others did not.
> 
> ...




I dont know how different they were..

McDonalds was an up and running hamburger joint, nothing special except they sold a lot of hamburgers and milkshakes..Ray Kroc simply expanded  their concept to multiple locations. His genius was when he figured out he was a real estate company not a hamburger company

Marriott bought a A and W root beer franchise to cater to the tourist trade  in DC  in the summer..nothing new,  nothing different and nothing special at the beginning...except that he began to sell hot food in the winter..and  kept growing, primarily by serving the tourist trade

Walton was the same thing...just a successful discount store,  nothing special 

What did make  these guys special was not their beginning but the companies they built. And what they built was not obvious at the beginning

Same with the op. he wants to step into something that is already being done by lots of other folks successfully.  Im not going to  say its a bad idea. Chances are that the op is smarter than me...if I can do it Im sure he can too. That isnt to say that he will grow it into something like McDonalds or Marriott or WalMart. All Im trying to say is that these  three companies had fairy humble beginnings, and I suspect lots of critics that they didnt listen to.


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