# Seapointer - What's going on?



## susan1738 (Jan 22, 2007)

I just recieved an email from Ina at First Resorts and she says that the resort has been temporarily suspended from RCI because certain "issues" need to be attended to before the suspension will be lifted.  

This email was sent to me after I wrote to her (several times with no response) and then repeatedly sending emails to the specialists at rci.  

Anyone know what is going on at The Seapointer?


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## Carolinian (Jan 22, 2007)

First Resorts is the management arm of the notorious Club Leisure Group.  For more on how these people operate, see the SA board at Crimeshare and look for posts on Club Leisure, and its various tenacles like CRI, Flexi-Club, Star Club, etc. and its head, the ''Bullfrog'', Stuart Lamont.

www.crimeshare.org/77.html

I expect:
1) you will be asked to pay a large special assessment, and
2) some arm of Club Leisure will try to ''buy'' your week, largely or completely with ''points'' in one of their entities.  For the ''value'' of those points, please see the posts on Crimeshare.


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## grest (Jan 22, 2007)

This does not sound good at all.  I have had good trading with my Seapointer, and would hate to give it up...but I surely do not wish to pay a large assessment.  Please, if anyone hears anything further, please post the updates. I have not yet been informed of anything regarding this resort.
Connie


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## MuranoJo (Jan 22, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> First Resorts is the management arm of the notorious Club Leisure Group.  For more on how these people operate, see the SA board at Crimeshare and look for posts on Club Leisure, and its various tenacles like CRI, Flexi-Club, Star Club, etc. and its head, the ''Bullfrog'', Stuart Lamont.
> 
> www.crimeshare.net/77.html
> 
> ...



Carolinian,
I've been reading your comments, and of course it's a concern.  I had decided to go ahead and pay my levy this year and get it deposited and work out what to do next after more research.  However, if they are on the 'outs' with RCI, that may preclude any efforts to deposit there, which pretty much wipes out the whole plan.  
My sense is it would be pretty hard to sell these now, and I'm not sure the resort will 'take them back.'  Any suggestions out there?


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## Carolinian (Jan 23, 2007)

Club Leisure seems to try to gets its hands on ownership so it can sell either individual units as wholeownership condos or the entire resort.  I am sure they would be happy to have anyone's week, but it is a real shame to let them have it.

There was a recent post by another Tugger of another SA resort where Club Leisure was trying to acquire people's weeks with a combination of cash and points in one of their clubs, probably mostly the latter.

From my own visit to Capetown, I can see why a resort in Seapoint would be attractive for such a plan.  This is an oceanfront (but no beach - it is all large rocks) and largely residential area fairly close in to Capetown.  I imagine that wholeownership condos would command top dollar there.  If I were looking to vacation on the beach near Capetown, I would go farther south where there are nice sand beachs in places like Cliffton and Camps Bay, but Seapoint would be a perfect place to live yearround.

Incidentally, there was a resort in the Canary Islands where the management last year conveniently let their RCI affiliation slide, spoke of large fee increases for repairs, and then muscled the owners into reliquishing their weeks so the resort could be sold for a big profit for the developer.  The whole sad story is in a legnthy thread with many posts by owners there, on www.timesharetalk.co.uk  It is not only SA where such things happen.


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## NJmom (Jan 23, 2007)

I don't believe this is the first time this has happened at The Seapointer.  Years ago shortly after many of us bought our Seapointer weeks from Herb, I received an annual report.  There was much talk in the report about how the resort had taken back many units for unpaid fees, and was selling them and making upgrades/repairs to get back into RCI.  (it had already happened by the time we bought)

I am not at home, but I may still have the report.  Obviously this is not a well managed property.  

The Seapointer has been a very good trader (I assume based on location alone), but has always had a very low VEP.  Hopefully they will work this out, but if they don't I have certainly gotten my money's worth.  

Perhaps if we get any further infomation we should start positng on the Yahoo Seapointer group.  There has been no activity there for sometime, but maybe we should start using it again to keep each other informed.


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## Carolinian (Jan 24, 2007)

I am curious if First Resorts/Club Leisure/Lamont were involved at that time.  With that crowd, hold onto your wallets!





NJmom said:


> I don't believe this is the first time this has happened at The Seapointer.  Years ago shortly after many of us bought our Seapointer weeks from Herb, I received an annual report.  There was much talk in the report about how the resort had taken back many units for unpaid fees, and was selling them and making upgrades/repairs to get back into RCI.  (it had already happened by the time we bought)
> 
> I am not at home, but I may still have the report.  Obviously this is not a well managed property.
> 
> ...


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## NJmom (Jan 24, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> I am curious if First Resorts/Club Leisure/Lamont were involved at that time.  With that crowd, hold onto your wallets!



I would say yes.

At that time the email address we uesd to pay our levies was a Club Leisure address.  That changed to first Resorts a couple of years age.


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## JohnnyO (Jan 25, 2007)

Yikes no wonder I have been having such problems depositing my '09 week into RCI.  Thanks for the feedback and update.


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## Carolinian (Jan 25, 2007)

One question to ask at any resort where the Club Leisure Group is active is ''how many weeks do Club Leisure entities like Flexi-Club, CRI, Star Club, etc. own there?''  Followed by ''are the levies fully paid on those?''  If you read far enough back on Crimeshare, including the Archives at the end of the current page, you will find an interesting history there at various resorts.


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## guitarlars (Jan 25, 2007)

*Asked Madge about this*

I posted a question for Madge in the Ask RCI section. It's not much help but she has indicated that Seapointer is still showing as affiliated with RCI but that maintenance, etc. could be the issue (and that she's going to inquire further) causing the concern.

Sure hope it's something that's going to get resolved and not the criminal activity that is suggested in some of the replies on this thread.

Check out the post in Ask RCI if interested.

Lars


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## KarenL (Jan 26, 2007)

I paid my 2008 levy about two weeks ago. Yesterday I emailed Ida at Club Leisure and requested my week be deposited. She replied that Seapointer was suspended from RCI and the resort was going be working things out. I asked her to be more specific and will post any information I am given.
Karen


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## Sandy (Jan 26, 2007)

Karen, 

I am definitely interested in the response.  I have tried twice to deposit my 2008 weeks with RCI and have gotten no where each time. RCI says that the issue is with Seapointer. 

If you can get some insight, please let us know here, or email me privately.


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## Sandy (Jan 26, 2007)

I have tried to find out a little more about what is going on.  I see that the Seapointer Yahoo group has no posts since last year.  So there is no help there. 

Plus, I tried Carolnian's link, but it does not work.  As I started to become frustrated with this possible turn of events, I put things in perspepctive.  

I have had Seapointer for several years, since it was touted here on TUG as a good resort, low price, low maintenance fees, with great exchanges.  I can attest to the great exchanges because I have been to many fabulous places using my seapointer resort. 

I reasoned a few years ago that if the good ride finally came to an end, I would have gotten my money's worth out of it with the few great exachanges that I made early on.  Now that reality might be closer than I ever imagined. 

So, I will try to figure out what is going on by reading these boards, trying to reach Seapointer, and reading elsewhere on the web.  But if push comes to shove, it has been definitely good.


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## susan1738 (Jan 27, 2007)

*I agree, Sandy*

I agree with you, Sandy.  It has been fun and enjoyable.  I just wonder, now, what do I do with this unit?  I've paid the '08 maintenance fees . . . now what?  

Do I have to continue paying the maintenance fees every year, eventhough I can't deposit and trade their units?  Will another exchange company trade them?  Or are they un-tradeable?  (I love making up my own words)


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## grest (Jan 27, 2007)

Another question:  will the trades already in place for this year and next be honored???  Looking forward to learning more about this issue and its resolution.
I also agree that we've gotten very good trades with Seapointer, and though I would hate to lose it, it has been a good ride.  I would hope that we could just give the week back if the two parties were unable to reach an agreement or if an unreasonable assessment was required??
Connie


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## Diane (Jan 27, 2007)

*email from SA specialist*

No details included but here is the full text of the email I received when I tried to deposit our 2008 Seapointer week:


"Dear Mr. Mueller

Thank you for the e-mail sent.

Please note that the Seapointer is currently in suspension due to poor quality.  Therefore RCI is not able to accept any bankings from that resort.  Kindly contact your resort administrators for further information.

Kind regards

Marli Dorfling
International Specialist Team"


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## grest (Jan 27, 2007)

Diane said:


> No details included but here is the full text of the email I received when I tried to deposit our 2008 Seapointer week:
> 
> 
> "Dear Mr. Mueller
> ...



That's not encouraging, is it??  I hope as many of us as possible send off an email to the Seapointer regarding resolution of this problem.
Connie


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## chap7 (Jan 27, 2007)

If the Seapointer is in suspension due to poor quality then how is it that RCI had previously given it such high trading power!


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## Diane (Jan 27, 2007)

*who best to contact at Seapointer?*

I wonder if we are wasting our time with the administrative staff?  Perhaps it would be more effective to contact members of the Board of Directors?  I don't know who any of them are, or their email addresses.  Does anyone?  Or, is there a contact on the staff in a position to know what is going on?  I doubt that those who handle the mechanics of our payments have much influence over anything.

Diane


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## Sandy (Jan 27, 2007)

*Whoa, not good news...*

... about the poor quality issue.  To answer another question, South Africa, particularly the Capetown area, is in high demand from maninly Europeans, other South Africans and Australians.  We in the US do not go there as frequently.  So it is mainly a matter of supply and demand. 

Seapointer was never a gold crown resort, but boy did it trade like a tiger.  

And the cheap cost - well I always thought it was a bit risky, and if it is all over, then the risk was one worth taking.  For me at least, this has been a good ride.  Some of the trades I have gotten.....

We no longer brag here on the public TUG board, but many faithful readers of TUG will recall the days when Seapointer would pull just about anything.  

And in that sense, it paid for itself. In fact, many of us said long ago (if we will honestly recall) that we would be happy for just a few fantastic trades.  Then "poof" it might be over.


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## mrspigdoc (Jan 28, 2007)

Has anyone successfully deposited their Seapointer weeks recently?  I was going to bank my 2009 week as well.
Teresa


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## grest (Jan 28, 2007)

Diane said:


> I wonder if we are wasting our time with the administrative staff?  Perhaps it would be more effective to contact members of the Board of Directors?  I don't know who any of them are, or their email addresses.  Does anyone?  Or, is there a contact on the staff in a position to know what is going on?  I doubt that those who handle the mechanics of our payments have much influence over anything.
> 
> Diane



Good point, Diane.  Does anyone out there have an address to suggest??
Connie


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## Born2Travel (Jan 28, 2007)

I haven't tried to bank a Seapointer week recently, but my ongoing search has still come up with matches, so I guess it's ok if it's already been deposited.  How could things go south so quickly?  I hope this is resolved soon.  I'd like to bank my 2008 week soon.


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## Carolinian (Jan 28, 2007)

chap7 said:


> If the Seapointer is in suspension due to poor quality then how is it that RCI had previously given it such high trading power!



Location, location, location.

It is just outside Capetown, a major travel destination, particularly with Europeans.


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## Carolinian (Jan 28, 2007)

For your sake, I hope that there are independent directors at this resort.  Many resorts that Club Leisure gets its tenacles around end up with Club Leisure heavies as their board of directors.

Once the Crimeshare board gets back up (it has been down and up over the past couple of months), you might compare the list of directors with some of the names connected with Club Leisure in posts on that board.




grest said:


> Good point, Diane.  Does anyone out there have an address to suggest??
> Connie


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## Diane (Jan 29, 2007)

*Seapointer Annual Report*

The most recent I have in my file has "Annual Report 2003" on the cover page. First Resorts (Magna Resort Management) is listed as Managing Agent, Secretary and Transfer Secretary.  Not sure if that means they managed the resort itself or its corporate/legal affairs.  The directors listed are A. N. Ridl and S. J. Lamont.  The name Hedley M. Adams (no title) was at the bottom of the Agenda for an Annual Meeting to be held May 26, 2005.  The financial reports included are for the year ended February 2004.  

Not sure what all this means, but does anyone have a Seapointer Annual Report with a more recent information/date?

Diane


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## grest (Jan 30, 2007)

I can't find anything in my stuff...which just may mean that I've lost it, but if others would also check that would be great.  Between all of us there must be something fairly recent with names and numbers/addresses.
Connie


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## Carolinian (Jan 30, 2007)

Stuart Lamont as a director is NOT a good sign, unfortunately.  I don't immediately recognize the name of Ridl, however.


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## Carolinian (Jan 30, 2007)

While the specific page link to the South Africa page at Crimeshare is not working, you can still reach it by going to www.crimeshare.net , clicking on ''News'' and then clicking on ''South Africa and Flexi-Club''


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## KarenL (Jan 30, 2007)

I received this email from Ina this morning in response to my request to contact the Board of Directors:

Hi  Mrs Lawyer

The Seapointer email address is
seapointer@firstresorts.co.za
The Board of Directors of the Seapointer  have not had there meeting as yet. As soon as we know we will inform you.
Assuring you of our best attention at all times
Regards
Ina

I don't know if contacting someone at this email address will help, but it can't hurt to try.

Karen


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## Diane (Jan 30, 2007)

Carolinian,

Thanks for the link.  I don't know if First Resorts (Magna Resorts Management) is part of The Club Leisure Group.  Do you?  I found the names of Seapointer (Le Petit Salon Share Block Limited) Directors Stuart Lamont and Tony Ridl on the Club Leisure Group website.  Their bios are below.  I apologize for the length of this, but hoped that you might be able to fathom a little of the relationships here and what is going on.

"The Club Leisure Group began operating in 1990 with the formation of Flexi Holiday Club which, in its first year successfully delivered quality holidays to 2,000 members.  One of the founder members, South African born Anthony (Tony) Ridl, a Chartered Accountant who is regarded as a lateral thinking strategist, established his mark early on, in the organisation. Accurately assessing market trends, Tony is instrumental in designing, developing and launching innovative products and services to maximise emerging market opportunities 

Pretoria born Stuart Lamont, a leading property developer from Kwa-Zulu-Natal's South Coast, joined the Group in 1994. Stuart focused on developing and implementing technologically advanced, measurable systems, procedures and quality of service, in all aspects of the Group.  

Stuart's experience in property development and management, together with his keen attention to detail and exceptional negotiating skills, soon led the group to acquire and develop other exciting products such as Off Beat Holiday Club, Star Vacation Club, Club Trafalgar, Club Resorts International." 

Diane


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## susan1738 (Jan 30, 2007)

*To MRSPIGDOC*

They won't let you deposit your 2009 units until the start of 2008.  (At least that is what I have been told over the past several years).  They always say that you can deposit, for example, your 2008 week at the start of 2007, no matter when your week occurs during the year.


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## Sandy (Jan 30, 2007)

Susan, 

I have been trying to deposit my 2008 weeks at Seapointer all this month. In the past, I never had a problem.  

It is only now that RCI keeps rejecting the deposits, and I learned of the potential troubles from reading TUG.


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## akfoy (Jan 31, 2007)

I received the following this morning:



Good day Mr Foy

Thank you for your email. We would advise that the Seapointer has not been disaffiliated from the RCI system.
In terms of a letter dated 14 December 2006, the resort has been temporarily suspended by RCI, who have advised that certain issues need to be attended to, before the suspension is uplifted.

The Board of Directors of the Seapointer will be meeting shortly to consider these issues, and to devise a programme to eliminate them.
Once the Dirctors have had there meeting you will be notified.

Assuring you of our best at all times.


Regards

ina


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## Sandy (Jan 31, 2007)

And I received the following email this morning:

Thank you for the e-mail sent.

Unfortunately the Seapointer is currently in suspension due to poor quality.  Therefore RCI cannot accept any bankings from the resort.
Please contact the resort administrators for more information.

Kind regards 


Marli Dorfling
International Specialist Team
___________________________________
RCI Global Vacation Network - Africa
A Division of Wyndham Worldwide
tel : +27 11 258 1109
fax : +27 11 258 1307
3 Simba Road, Sunninghill. 
PO Box 783940, Sandton, 2146 - RSA
mdorfling@rci.co.za
www.rci.com 


I don't know if these two communications (compare above) are inherently inconsistent.  Perhaps Seapointer will get things straightened out.


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## Diane (Jan 31, 2007)

I don't see any inconsistency.  What I do see is that Seapointer received a letter on December 14, 2006 suspending Seapointer from RCI.  I suspect there may have been some indications earlier that this was about to happen.  If nothing else, conditions were allowed to deteriorate to the point that a suspension for quality issues occured.

In any event it appears there are only two directors.  A search of the web shows that Stuart Lamont and Tony Ridl, the directors, have had numerous other dealings with each other.  It is 6 weeks since the suspension and they have not yet even set a date for a directors meeting.  Don't know how that can amount to their best efforts.

I wonder if there is some regulatory body in South Africa overseeing timeshares.  Perhaps Carolinian or someone else would know.

Diane


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## Jan (Jan 31, 2007)

I am so depressed--I sold my SeaPointer to my brother last September and in October another SeaPointer week to a very good friend.  What do I tell them??  I feel so bad about all this.  Also-with one of my Seapointer week I have a search on for Hawaii for 2008.  How will this affect my chances of getting anything???         Jan


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## guitarlars (Jan 31, 2007)

*How many units are owned by Tuggers?*

I am of course concerned that management has not properly attended to the maintenance of the Seapointer, and now we have a property that cannot be traded through RCI.

This is apparently not of sufficient concern to the "board" for them to meet and determine a plan of action to correct the problem.

I am curious as to how our levy's are being used, if they are not being used to update and repair the property. The Seapointer has a relatively high levy compared to other similar properties, so if they are not using this to maintain the property where is the money going?

After reading the crimeshares web site it looks like at least one of the directors has an "iffy" past (putting it mildly).

How many units are owned by Tuggers currently, and does this give us any leverage? I own 2 two bedroom units and, while I am willing to walk away from these, it really annoys me that our asset is being stolen.

How many other units are out there in the hands of tuggers?

Lars


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## Sandy (Jan 31, 2007)

I own two (2) One Bedroom units.  

I am also willing to walk away, having justified long ago the value I receied from my comparatively small investment price.


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## Diane (Jan 31, 2007)

We own one (1) two bedroom unit, week 26.  

With the very desirable location of The Seapointer, getting owners to "walk away"  might be what this is about.  

Diane


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## Carolinian (Jan 31, 2007)

All RCI and II resorts get a monthly report of report card scores from exchangers, with 3-month and 12-month averages.  They had to know the numbers were heading south.  The question is whether they were just inept or if this were part of an agenda.

As to exchanging, DAE takes South Africa, and just because Sea Pointer is suspended by RCI, that would not necessarily effect DAE.  Indeed, I just looked, and Seapointer is still listed on the DAE online resort directory.

Try www.daelive.com


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## grest (Jan 31, 2007)

Carolinian said:


> All RCI and II resorts get a monthly report of report card scores from exchangers, with 3-month and 12-month averages.  They had to know the numbers were heading south.  The question is whether they were just inept or if this were part of an agenda.
> 
> As to exchanging, DAE takes South Africa, and just because Sea Pointer is suspended by RCI, that would not necessarily effect DAE.  Indeed, I just looked, and Seapointer is still listed on the DAE online resort directory.
> 
> Try www.daelive.com



Good thinking, Carolinian...I hadn't considered the option of DAE.
We own one 2br unit, and my cousin (at my urging a few years ago) also had one.
Connie


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## Mimi (Jan 31, 2007)

I was looking for available trades on Trading Places last night and was very surprised to see a Mount Amanzi unit.  Maybe TPI would accept Seapointer. They give bonus weeks for early deposits!  Good luck. I was happy to sell my 4 SA units. Also felt I got good trades for my minimal investment, but the ride was over.


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## Gramma5 (Feb 1, 2007)

I also have a 2BR with a Nov. week, can't remember the week #. It has been a great trader and I'm hoping this is temporary. Will definitely look into using DAE or Trading Places tho....


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## JohnnyO (Feb 1, 2007)

I have always been able to bank my Seapointer weeks 2 years out until this year.  I have already traded my 2007 week and am trying to bank my 2008 week.

Edit...my mistake...I thought I was up to my 2009 week but I was not.  It was my 2008 week.  I don't know what I was thinking.  I used to be able to bank 2 years out....I think.



susan1738 said:


> They won't let you deposit your 2009 units until the start of 2008.  (At least that is what I have been told over the past several years).  They always say that you can deposit, for example, your 2008 week at the start of 2007, no matter when your week occurs during the year.


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## guitarlars (Feb 1, 2007)

*Even if still traded where is the $ going*

Maybe my basic point isn't clear:

If we're paying our levy's, and they are to be used for the operation and maintenance of the timeshare, what are they doing with the money if not what was intended?

Is it going into some director's (i.e. one with a shady past) pocket, or are the funds being held back to create a fund to buy back the units (again, to line someone's pocket)? Is the intent to get owners to stop paying their levy's so they can "reclaim" the units for non-payment?

The Seapointer knew they were getting bad reports, have had problems with RCI in the past, and were fully aware of the issues and what they needed to do, if they didn't attend to it they are either incompetent or nefarious.

I would just like to understand what they are doing with our levys, or if we are subsidizing a number of "held" units intended to facilitate the takeover of the property by a bunch of timeshare crooks.

My 2007 levy is paid, but I sure won't pre-pay 2008, as I had planned, given the current state of affairs, particularly since I now suspect that my funds are not being well used.

I audited a condo association in my early days in public accounting, and one thing we found was that the management company hired to take care of the property (including managing the rental pool) had just put all of the money from all of the properties they managed into one big bucket. It took three months of analysis to figure out who owed what to who. The condo I managed was owed huge amounts because the manangement company had taken "advances" against future fees and otherwise wasted the owners funds.

This has the distinct smell of a similar scam. I'm just curious as to how many of the units we collectively own, and if enough, can we give the management company enough heartburn to clean up this mess.

Lars


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## grest (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm all for the heartburn, Lars.
Connie


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## susan1738 (Feb 1, 2007)

*JohnnyO*

I'm surprised, JohnnyO, that you've been able to deposit your unit 2 years out.  It has been several years since I was able to do that.  For about the past 3 years, I have been told that I could not deposit until the start of the year before I was wanting to deposit.  Lucky you, that you've been able to up to this point. . . . . of course, come to think of it, all this may be a mute point now.


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## grest (Feb 3, 2007)

I emailed Ina at Seapointer to get some email addresses of members of the Board of Directors.  She replied that Seapointer has not been disaffiliated from RCI, but merely suspended until certain maintenance issues were resolved, and that the BoD will meet shortly.  I wrote again asking for email addresses...we'll see..
Connie


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## Diane (Feb 3, 2007)

I have asked for the email addresses of the board members also and received no response.  I also asked if there has been an Annual Report since the one dated 2003 with financials ending in February 2004.  No response.

Diane


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## grest (Feb 4, 2007)

Diane said:


> I have asked for the email addresses of the board members also and received no response.  I also asked if there has been an Annual Report since the one dated 2003 with financials ending in February 2004.  No response.
> 
> Diane



I'm really not comfortable with this...this information should be directly available upon request..
Connie


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## mrspigdoc (Feb 5, 2007)

*what does happen to our trades w/Seapointer?*

Last week I used my Seapointer for a very nice trade for Feb 2008.  Could/will RCI yank that trade.  I would really be bummed.  I am afraid to ask the question to RCI ...let sleeping dogs lie...
Teresa


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## chap7 (Feb 6, 2007)

RCI reads these threads.


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## grest (Feb 6, 2007)

chap7 said:


> RCI reads these threads.



Good...they might provide us with further information...how about it, RCI?
Connie


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