# Breaking News:  People abducted at gun point from restaurant in Puerto Vallarta



## DeniseM (Aug 15, 2016)

Just saw this:



> The Associated Press ‏@AP 5 minutes ago
> 
> BREAKING: Mexican authorities say armed men abducted a number of people from restaurant in popular tourist destination of Puerto Vallarta.



Here is a translation of one report which was in Spanish - _YES - I know it is not grammatically correct - I used a translation website:_



> Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco.- August 15, 2016.- An armed command up to 16 people dined inside the restaurant "La Leche".
> 
> armed group
> 
> ...


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## presley (Aug 15, 2016)

Interesting timing for you to post this. I was just wondering if I should change my Ensenada/Cabo cruise next year to one that goes to Puerta Vallerta instead.


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## VacationForever (Aug 15, 2016)

Puerto Vallarta became one of the "unsafe" places for tourists to go to about a year ago.  Because of that, we are sticking to Cancun and Cabo San Lucas for our Mexico trips.  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2015/05/15/puerto-vallarta-mexico-travel/27370763/


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## KarenLK (Aug 15, 2016)

La Leche is between Los Tules and Villa del Palmar. Yikes! it is in front of the Fiesta Americana.


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## Linda74 (Aug 15, 2016)

Yikes!!!  Ate there last visit!!!!


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## Ty1on (Aug 15, 2016)

Linda74 said:


> Yikes!!!  Ate there last visit!!!!



This was Cartel business.  While the news in unsettling, if I read the translation correctly, it was a targeted abduction of either government officials or rival cartel leaders (I gather this from the fact that they arrived in VIP transportation and a bullet proof Charger)....they even left the women un-abducted.


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## silentg (Aug 15, 2016)

Scary, I hope they will be returned safe. So awful!


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## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2016)

From my reading as well, exactly NONE of the people abducted were tourists. This was cartel business. It should not affect any U.S. tourist's plans. It won't affect mine.

Jim


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## presley (Aug 15, 2016)

I think the point of the post is that it would be scary to be eating in a popular restaurant on a vacation and see this happen. People can and do get PTSD from witnessing stuff like this.


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## x3 skier (Aug 15, 2016)

I'd rather be in PV than Milwaukee last weekend. 

Cheers


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## Ty1on (Aug 15, 2016)

silentg said:


> Scary, I hope they will be returned safe. So awful!



I think that is doubtful, given how these abductions seem to always end up.


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## pittle (Aug 15, 2016)

presley said:


> I think the point of the post is that it would be scary to be eating in a popular restaurant on a vacation and see this happen. People can and do get PTSD from witnessing stuff like this.



Yes, it would be scary, but as my husband has always told our kids - not much good happens when you are out after midnight - you need to be home!  This happened around 1AM - so he will most likely remind them of this when we go to PV in November. When our grown kids go with us on vacation, we tell them to be in their unit by midnight.  They can hang out on the deck all night if they wish, but please be in the safety of their unit.


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## CableMan67 (Aug 15, 2016)

Wow, stayed in July at Los Tules only a block away from La Leche. Everything was good, guess it's rival groups doing "cleaning" work!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 15, 2016)

Reading the article, it says that at the time of the abduction everyone in the restaurant was from Sinaloa.  16 men and four women.

Although it doesn't say so directly, it appears that this group of Sinalese reserved the entire restaurant for a private dinner.  During the dinner, the armed convoy arrived and abducted the men.

As noted upthread, this is drug carterl business. It appears to me to have been planned and orchestrated to avoid enmeshing non-cartel bystanders. There's no indication that any shots were fired.  One group took seized an opportunity to conduct clean and precise operation.   

As many people have pointed out, there is more routine crime committed against tourists in a major tourist locale in the US that occurs in a city such as Puerto Vallarta.  But in the war between fear and facts, the arc of human history tells us that fear trumps facts.


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## PamMo (Aug 15, 2016)

sptung said:


> Puerto Vallarta became one of the "unsafe" places for tourists to go to about a year ago.  Because of that, we are sticking to Cancun and Cabo San Lucas for our Mexico trips.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2015/05/15/puerto-vallarta-mexico-travel/27370763/



Awww, come on...that story was from over a year ago. Cruise ships are definitely stopping in Puerto Vallarta! http://www.cruiseportinsider.com/puertovallartaschedule2016.html

We spend a lot of time in Cabo, and feel just as comfortable in Puerto Vallarta. Our family has taken three trips down there since last fall. This incident looks like a targeted drug gang (cartel is too nice a word for these thugs) kidnapping, not a random act of violence. Yes, it was in a tourist zone (we've enjoyed a few meals in La Leche), but it doesn't look like tourists were ever in any danger. It doesn't make it any less scary, but it isn't a cause for panic. I just booked another trip to Nuevo Vallarta today, and will not be cancelling.


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## VacationForever (Aug 15, 2016)

PamMo said:


> Awww, come on...that story was from over a year ago. Cruise ships are definitely stopping in Puerto Vallarta! http://www.cruiseportinsider.com/puertovallartaschedule2016.html
> 
> We spend a lot of time in Cabo, and feel just as comfortable in Puerto Vallarta. Our family has taken three trips down there since last fall. This incident looks like a targeted drug gang (cartel is too nice a word for these thugs) kidnapping, not a random act of violence. Yes, it was in a tourist zone (we've enjoyed a few meals in La Leche), but it doesn't look like tourists were ever in any danger. It doesn't make it any less scary, but it isn't a cause for panic. I just booked another trip to Nuevo Vallarta today, and will not be cancelling.



I do go to Mexico but only to cities/areas where drug cartels are not known to be actively warring, i.e., Cabo San Lucas and Cancun hotel zone.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 15, 2016)

Gunmen Abduct People from Mexican Resort City Restaurant - from Associated Press/ World/ Mexico/ Time/ time.com

"Reports said as many as 16 people were taken

(MEXICO CITY) — Armed men abducted multiple people from an upscale restaurant in the popular Mexican beach resort city of Puerto Vallarta, authorities said Monday.

Prosecutors in the western state of Jalisco said two SUVs carrying an unknown number of gunmen arrived around 1 a.m. at the La Leche restaurant on the city’s main boulevard, which runs through the hotel zone between the old beach city and the airport.

The office said in a statement that it was still investigating. Five vehicles were abandoned at the restaurant, but it was unclear whether they belonged to any of the victims or attackers.

Mexican media reports said as many as 16 people were abducted, but authorities did not immediately confirm the number..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 15, 2016)

Wary of Losing Tourists, Mexico Says Mass Abduction in Puerto Vallarta Was Likely a Gang-on-Gang Crime - by Patrick J. McDonnell and Cecilia Sanchez/ World/ Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"The kidnapping early Monday of as many as a dozen men from a restaurant in the Pacific resort city of Puerto Vallarta was likely a case of gang-on-gang crime and didn’t target tourists or foreigners, Mexican authorities say.

Eduardo Almaguer, chief prosecutor of Jalisco state, also refuted rumors in the Mexican press suggesting that among those kidnapped were sons of Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, the imprisoned cartel leader.

“We haven’t confirmed until now that there were relatives of that person,” the prosecutor said, referring to Guzman, whom U.S. authorities are seeking to extradite to the United States on trafficking and other charges.

The kidnapping appeared to involve rival crime gangs, officials said..."





The entrance of La Leche restaurant remains closed after armed men abducted as many as 16 people who were dining in the upscale restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. (Associated Press)


Richard


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## PStreet1 (Aug 16, 2016)

x3 skier said:


> I'd rather be in PV than Milwaukee last weekend.
> 
> Cheers



You got that one right!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 16, 2016)

sptung said:


> Puerto Vallarta became one of the "unsafe" places for tourists to go to about a year ago.  Because of that, we are sticking to Cancun and Cabo San Lucas for our Mexico trips.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2015/05/15/puerto-vallarta-mexico-travel/27370763/



So ... have you also stricken the Michigan Avenue and Lake Shore Drive in Chicago from list of potential vacation sites?  Times Square?  Miami Beach?


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## Phydeaux (Aug 16, 2016)

x3 skier said:


> I'd rather be in PV than Milwaukee last weekend.
> 
> Cheers



No one died in MKE.

Chicago? 43 shot, 9 dead just over the weekend. Typical weekend in Chicago these days.


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## nazclk (Aug 16, 2016)

*Business as usual*

It should be noted that the women nor tourists were taken. It was strictly 
business as usual in Mexico. No worse than watching a violent TV show. 
The old saying "you reap what you sow"


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## siesta (Aug 16, 2016)

Phydeaux said:


> No one died in MKE.
> 
> Chicago? 43 shot, 9 dead just over the weekend. Typical weekend in Chicago these days.


 Typical Chicago weekend in the South and South-west side only. A lot of poverty, gangs, and low income housing over there. Tourists have no business in those areas.


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## Phydeaux (Aug 16, 2016)

siesta said:


> Typical Chicago weekend in the South and South-west side only. A lot of poverty, gangs, and low income housing over there. Tourists have no business in those areas.




Really? Where did you get that notion?


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## siesta (Aug 16, 2016)

Phydeaux said:


> Really? Where did you get that notion?


From living in the north shore suburbs for 30+ years. The south and west sides are poorer areas, with a gang problem.

tourists stay within that red circle, and likely have no need to go that far north even.


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## VacationForever (Aug 16, 2016)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> So ... have you also stricken the Michigan Avenue and Lake Shore Drive in Chicago from list of potential vacation sites?  Times Square?  Miami Beach?



I stay away from high crime neighborhoods too.  Don't want to be caught in the middle of gangs shooting at each other.  Foolish not to.


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## Phydeaux (Aug 16, 2016)

siesta said:


> From living in the north shore suburbs for 30+ years. The south and west sides are poorer areas, with a gang problem.
> 
> tourists stay within that red circle, and likely have no need to go that far north even.




The stats map and this response don't jibe with your south side comment. 

Not to mention, most people traveling through the greater Chicago area probably don't have reference to the map.

My sympathys to your 30 year residency.


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## rapmarks (Aug 16, 2016)

I grew up on the south side, Roseland and west Pullman, it was a safe area then.  The Roseland round table on Facebook has 5000 members and many more waiting to get in .  Members go every Sunday and take pictures they post on Facebook, for the rest of us to enjoy.  They always leave early afternoon.  I was lucky, I didn't know people on the north side considered us poor, I thought we were regular people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Phydeaux (Aug 16, 2016)

Point being missed here, purposely, is that poverty doesn't cause crime. It's a proven fact. Don't get emotional over it, get the facts.

I'll never forget working with a colleague from India, having this discussion. He said "so many of us from India want to come to this country, where the "poor" people have satellite TV, vehicles, and are obese". 

Truth.


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## siesta (Aug 16, 2016)

Phydeaux said:


> The stats map and this response don't jibe with your south side comment.
> 
> Not to mention, most people traveling through the greater Chicago area probably don't have reference to the map.
> 
> My sympathys to your 30 year residency.


 1) actually, it does. Look at the map and tell me where the dots are concentrated, hint: it's the south and west side.

2) save your sympathy, I love where we live, I doubt "somewhere,USA" is as nice or safe.

"In 2015, Winnetka was ranked the richest municipality in Illinois and the second richest in the United States (behind Scarsdale, New York[2]). The area is one of the most exclusive and wealthy suburbs in the nation." 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetka,_Illinois


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 16, 2016)

El Chapo's Son May Be Among Those Abducted from Mexican Resort, Authorities Say - by Mark Stevenson/ World/ Mexico/ Time/ time.com

"Several of the victims had false identities.

(MEXICO CITY) — The son of imprisoned drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman may be among the half-dozen men abducted by a squad of gunmen at a restaurant in the Mexican beach resort of Puerto Vallarta, authorities said Tuesday.

Authorities in the western state of Jalisco, where Puerto Vallarta is located, earlier said that 10 to 12 men had been kidnapped from the upscale restaurant, based on the confused nature of the evidence at the crime scene. Some women who were with the abducted men at the restaurant weren’t taken, and one person who had been dining with the group left just moments before the abduction.

But prosecutors later clarified in a statement that six men were abducted by a squad of seven armed assailants.

Jalisco Attorney General Eduardo Almaguer told Radio Formula that “it is presumed,” though not yet certain, that Ivan Archivaldo Guzman was among the kidnapped men...."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 16, 2016)

Son of Mexican Drug Boss 'Chapo' Among Group Abducted at Resort - from Reuters/ World News/ reuters.com

"One of Mexican drug lord Joaquin "Chapo" Guzman's sons was among a group of people abducted from a restaurant in the Mexican tourist resort of Puerto Vallarta, the state attorney general said on Tuesday.

Jalisco Attorney General Eduardo Almaguer told a news conference that one of Guzman's sons, Alfredo, 29, was among six people abducted by armed men from an upscale eatery in the heart of the Pacific resort town early on Monday.

"The person ... is the son of Joaquin Guzman Loera, and has been identified through [inspections of] vehicles and by security agencies, as well as through expert opinions," Almaguer said.

Puerto Vallarta, in the state of Jalisco, is one of Mexico's top vacation destinations, attracting all-inclusive tourists and high-end sun seekers to its beaches.

Guzman was the head of the Sinaloa cartel and one of the world's most wanted drug kingpins until he was captured in January. Six months earlier, he had broken out of a high-security penitentiary in central Mexico through a mile-long tunnel.

Jalisco, which lies south along the Pacific coast from Sinaloa, is home to the Jalisco New Generation cartel, which has become one of the country's most powerful drug gangs in recent years..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 17, 2016)

Son of Drug Lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Kidnapped in Mexico - From Deutsche Welle (DW)/ dw.com

"Jesus Alfredo Guzman, son of the jailed drug lord "El Chapo" has been kidnapped raising fears of a war between narcotics gangs. Guzman's father is the boss of the powerful Sinaloa cartel. 

Jalisco state Attorney General Eduardo Almaguer said local authorities have confirmed the identities of four of the six kidnapped individuals, among them 29-year-old Jesus Alfredo Guzman Salazar (above), also known as "El Chapito" (Little Chapo).

 Almaguer said the kidnappers appeared to belong to the state's dominant Jalisco New Generation drug cartel, while the victims were from the rival Sinaloa cartel.

Seven gunmen reportedly arrived in pickup trucks at the upscale restaurant La Leche in the Pacific resort city of Puerto Vallarta on Monday at around 1 a.m. and abducted multiple victims.

Investigators reportedly believe it is likely a settling of scores between rival drug cartels.

Richard


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 17, 2016)

*Back to Puerto Vallarta & timesharing*

We have a Feb 2017 week booked - Mayan Palace PV -Marina . (Sat. to Sat)
one bedroom suite .

My Mayan booking window for Feb started Aug.1 and when I called at 11 am on Aug 1 - Friday to Friday was sold out - so I took the Saturday start . 

I thought I would try Vidanta reservations today ( Aug 17 ) to see if there were any cancellations due to the kidnapping .

NOTHING AVAILABLE 

( except a few stub hotel rooms left over from 2 bedroom lockouts )

So I guess getting away from winter outranks worrying about a cartel management  dispute .

And - what happen to " always lots of availability at Mexican timeshares "

NOT in FEBRUARY  in Puerto,Vallarta

.


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## Ty1on (Aug 17, 2016)

Phydeaux said:


> Point being missed here, purposely, is that poverty doesn't cause crime. It's a proven fact.
> 
> Truth.



Interesting excerpt from a journal article I found:

"From a psychological perspective, Ward said there was very little connection between poverty and crime. Rather, it is the environment of poverty that can lead people to commit crimes.

“It’s not just being poor, but it’s being around lots of poor people,” Ward said. “The relationship between poverty and crime is in areas of concentrated poverty, like these inner city areas.”

Ward said living in an area of concentrated poverty can be a catalyst for futility."

So, there is no direct relationship between a person's poverty level and his propensity to commit crime.  However, crime is higher in poor neighborhoods for a reason.  Concentration of poverty creates a culture where there is less respect for the law and less trust of law enforcement (this itself is a vicious cycle.  Police don't trust citizens because of the crime rate, citizens don't trust police because police don't trust them), and I believe that a given person is more likely to commit certain crimes if he lives in such an area than in an upscale area.  

I was raised in North Las Vegas, and my experience is that crime was much higher there than it is in my current neighborhood.

This, of course, is all social theory, none of this can be proven fact, either way.


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## DebBrown (Aug 17, 2016)

I live in the Chicago area and can assure you that the areas with the most shootings on the map are also the areas with the worst poverty.  We actually live in Oak Park which is adjacent to the dark blue area of Chicago.  It's amazing that we have so little "spill over" crime here.  

Solve the poverty and you solve a lot of the crime.  The time when the Chicago schools really saw an improvement was during the "war on poverty" 50 years ago.

Deb


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## taffy19 (Aug 18, 2016)

I received this email today and it may be interesting to some who like to visit there one day or visit there often.  One is a poll.

Click under news and you see some more interesting articles.  American Airlines is waiting approval to fly direct from Los Angeles to Puerto Vallarta plus about the new Guadalajara-PV highway.


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## siesta (Aug 18, 2016)

iconnections said:


> I received this email today and it may be interesting to some who like to visit there one day or visit there often.  One is a poll.
> 
> Click under news and you see some more interesting articles.  American Airlines is waiting approval to fly direct from Los Angeles to Puerto Vallarta plus about the new Guadalajara-PV highway.


 The results of the poll when I entered my answer:

Thank you for voting!
YES, I will continue with my vacation as planned, or will continue to recommend Puerto Vallarta as a place to visit.  97.37% 


NO, I will postpone or cancel my trip, or suggest my friends and loved ones to postpone or cancel their trip.  2.63%


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## pittle (Aug 18, 2016)

We plan to go to PV as planned this fall for 3 weeks.  When we are in PV and have a day of sun & fun, we eat dinner early and then just hang out on our deck until bedtime.  Since we are not party people, we tend to go to bed early so that we can enjoy another day in paradise first thing in the morning - breakfast burritos and coffee are awesome on the deck early in the morning!


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## MuranoJo (Aug 19, 2016)

Local media didn't discuss the gang vs. gang situation.  As usual, they resorted to sensationalism.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 21, 2016)

5 Days After Being Abducted at Gunpoint, 'El Chapo' Guzman's Son is Reportedly Free and Unharmed - by Christopher Woody/ Military & Defense/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"Less than a week after being kidnapped in a restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, Jesus Alfredo Guzmán Salazar, the youngest son of Sinaloa cartel chief Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, has been freed, relatives told AFP.

Alfredo Guzmán was abducted along with five other men early Monday morning by a group of armed men. He and the others were released on Friday night, according to AFP. 

"They were negotiating all this time, but now are free and well," the Guzmán family relative told AFP. Some of the captured men were already back in Sinaloa state, according to the source. The details of the negotiation are not known at this point..."





 Jesus Alfredo Guzmán, in a photo released by the US government. US government/El Pais 


Richard


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 21, 2016)

MuranoJo said:


> Local media didn't discuss the gang vs. gang situation.  As usual, they resorted to sensationalism.


Perhaps that's because reporters who report news as gang-related often receive death threats.


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## PamMo (Aug 21, 2016)

MULTIZ321 said:


> 5 Days After Being Abducted at Gunpoint, 'El Chapo' Guzman's Son is Reportedly Free and Unharmed...
> 
> "Less than a week after being kidnapped in a restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, Jesus Alfredo Guzmán Salazar, the youngest son of Sinaloa cartel chief Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, has been freed, relatives told AFP.
> 
> Richard



VERY interesting! I hadn't see this in the news, but I guess it's not too surprising that El Chapo, even though imprisoned, still has powerful connections. Wow.


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## John Cummings (Aug 21, 2016)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> So ... have you also stricken the Michigan Avenue and Lake Shore Drive in Chicago from list of potential vacation sites?  Times Square?  Miami Beach?



Times Square is about as safe as you can get. Walked around Times Square many times, both night and day


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## MuranoJo (Aug 22, 2016)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Perhaps that's because reporters who report news as gang-related often receive death threats.


Interesting.  Hadn't heard that before.
There have been up-front gang-goings-on reported by the media before locally. Re. local gangs mostly.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 22, 2016)

*Was this an interaction between 2 cartels / or a Sinaloa management dispute ?*

Since the restaurant meal ending event occurred , I have read , that young Mr. Guzman spent a lot of time posting pictures of his gangster bling on Instagram. ( and did not do much else ) 

My personal ( and totally unsubstantiated ) guess is that the "kidnapping "was 
a coup  / demotion / early retirement  - of young Mr. Guzman by management .

Whether his release was out of respect for his father or approved by his father - is the question in my mind . 

.


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