# Considering Purchasing Worldmark



## Mongoose (Sep 26, 2020)

I live in Colorado, having moved from the Southeast.  I have points with HICV, which don't have a lot of locations in the West.  I'm thinking about buying Worldmark points on resale to use in the West and Hawaii.  What are the advantages with Worldmark?    I also have Hyatt points.  Should I add points to Hyatt or purchase Worldmark. I'd love to hear how Worldmark owners feel about their resorts.


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

I personally LOVE my WM! For what you are wanting it (excluding Hawaii which we discussed in a different post), I PERSONALLY think this would work well for you! I almost just wrote "go post this on the "new to timesharing" forum, but if you already have a Hyatt... 

BTW, go check out the resort locations first and make sure they actually do have West Coast options you are interested in: https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

*Pros (as I see them) if you are specifically looking for a points/credits timeshare vs a "more traditional" deeded week:* 

Reasonable MF (comparing vs my HGVC and what I know about Marriott) 
Significantly less pesky fees 
No annual club dues (like HGVC) 
No insurance/cancellation fees
Yes, there is a housekeeping fee, but only after your first (or 2nd or 3rd, depending on your ownership size) stay and I am ok with it because of the cancellation and overall system flexibility 
Yes, there is a guest certificate fee, but only after you use up your 1st "free" (included) one for the year

Very generous cancellation policy (30,10 or even 2 days prior to arrival depending on the timing of when you book)
Monday Madness & Inventory Specials (I have a small points contract, so these actually often work out even better for me to book vs using credits!)  
Waitlist option that actually works
Ability to trade in both RCI (I don't use) or II (I haven't used yet but it seems like WM is a decent trader based on other TUG-ers comments)  
Regarding trading: a trade 45 days or less from check-in costs a mere 4000 credits for the week (plus the II exchange fee) which is a STEAL, if ya ask me! 

*Awesome West Coast locations & resorts that work for me (I live in NorCal)*
*Cons: *

?????? Help? Anyone? 
Some resorts are hard to book (boohoo, this is applicable for all timeshare systems)
Apparently there are a few bad apples who are referred to as "megarenters" who book up popular resorts exactly at the 13 month mark in mass bulk... 

I think maybe we, the lucky ones who own WM, are supposed to keep the volume low on this so we don't jinx ourselves...  but I will invite a few experts who were super helpful and taught me a bunch! @breezez @DaveNV @taterhed @geist1223 ... if you get 1-2 of these folk to answer some questions for ya, you will have gold! 

Disclaimer: the bullets above are MY EXPERIENCE with WM and should not be construed as FACTS.... although, frankly, I've never heard anyone WHO KNOWS HOW TO USE THEIR WM speak negatively about it...


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

Sorry, I want to add one more thing... there's only 2 of us and therefore a 1 bedroom works well for us. From what I have seen, 2 & 3 bedrooms (especially 3) are harder to book unless you plan in advance and/or are comfortable with using the waitlist...


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

Hobokie said:


> I personally LOVE my WM! For what you are wanting it (excluding Hawaii which we discussed in a different post), I PERSONALLY think this would work well for you! I almost just wrote "go post this on the "new to timesharing" forum, but if you already have a Hyatt...
> 
> BTW, go check out the resort locations first and make sure they actually do have West Coast options you are interested in: https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/
> 
> ...


Thanks for a great post and sharing your experience.  I have been looking at WM for a little while, and while their resorts are not as nice a Hyatt, the locations, MF's and flexibility look pretty good.  We mainly want to use the West Coast locations as a base for hiking, so AZ, CO, NM, UT and the new Moab location sound perfect.


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

From what I have researched, it looks like 12,000 points on a singly account might be the sweet spot for me.  Based on what I have read the MF's for 12,000 are less than 2 6,000 units.  I also assume the correct purchase is for a Premier Club account on the resale market looking for one that is a good value and loaded with points.   Any other advise?


----------



## sue1947 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cons:  Wyndham, who controls the BOD, is implementing various rules that reduce the flexibility that made WM a good TS. The value of WM has, as a result, plummeted, making it cheaper to buy and harder to sell.
Yes, there is a guest cert fee and no, it isn't innocuous.   Once you attach a name, it can't be changed in any way, even for spelling errors.   So if you have a family vacation and your brother has to work at the last minute and you want to change the name to his wife; another $99.  
Any overlapping reservations require a guest cert within 48 hours.  This makes the waitlist much, much less useful.  The typical waitlist process is to get parts of the reservation you want.  You might get a 2 BR Queen for a couple nights, then pick up a 2 BR twin for another and keep gathering them until you get everything in the same unit type.  That process could easily result in multiple overlapping reservations.   With this new rule, you would need a guest cert each time you have a duplicate night.   So the waitlist is now reduced to only working if you can get the exact timeframe and size unit you want.   
The guest cert changes are the main thing driving people away from WM.  
The excuse used is to reduce people renting out weeks.  The reality is that the renters just add $100 to their rental cost so this is really just Wyndham taking a piece of the rental pie.  
Another new rule change:  in the past, if you had to cancel after the final date, you could call in and get your credits back if somebody else used the unit.  That's gone.  So if you make a reservation at 13 months, your cancellation date is 30 days.  Those reservations tend to be the most in demand, so if you had to cancel after the 30 day mark, you would likely get the credits back.  Not now.  If you cancel, somebody else will likely use the unit, and pay for the unit, so Wyndham will end up with double the payment for the same unit.  
They've also eliminated the option to book 1 night stays.  The claim is it is for COVID cleaning, but the amount of cleaning required is not dependent on the length of stay so this makes no sense.  I believe it will be permanent.  WM was a good option to fill in a night or two between other stays or for road trips.  In addition, this rule eliminates more of the flexibility needed to work the waitlist.  I am looking for 5-7 nights in late Oct.  3 of the nights I need are there, but are single nights so I have to wait until an adjoining night becomes available.  
There are others changes, but these are the main ones that have me considering selling.


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

sue1947 said:


> Cons:  Wyndham, who controls the BOD, is implementing various rules that reduce the flexibility that made WM a good TS. The value of WM has, as a result, plummeted, making it cheaper to buy and harder to sell.
> Yes, there is a guest cert fee and no, it isn't innocuous.   Once you attach a name, it can't be changed in any way, even for spelling errors.   So if you have a family vacation and your brother has to work at the last minute and you want to change the name to his wife; another $99.
> Any overlapping reservations require a guest cert within 48 hours.  This makes the waitlist much, much less useful.  The typical waitlist process is to get parts of the reservation you want.  You might get a 2 BR Queen for a couple nights, then pick up a 2 BR twin for another and keep gathering them until you get everything in the same unit type.  That process could easily result in multiple overlapping reservations.   With this new rule, you would need a guest cert each time you have a duplicate night.   So the waitlist is now reduced to only working if you can get the exact timeframe and size unit you want.
> The guest cert changes are the main thing driving people away from WM.
> ...


So they have 1 night in inventory but won't rent one night at a time?  That doesn't seem well thought out.  Sounds like they are standardizing to some industry norms which would seem make WM less attractive.  Thanks.


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

Mongoose said:


> From what I have researched, it looks like 12,000 points on a singly account might be the sweet spot for me.  Based on what I have read the MF's for 12,000 are less than 2 6,000 units.  I also assume the correct purchase is for a Premier Club account on the resale market looking for one that is a good value and loaded with points.   Any other advise?


Yes to "Premier Club account on the resale market", although I don't know that there is any other type other than "Premier"....?  But yes, resale. 

Be prepared to WAIT for the transfer. My personal experience was 6 months and I have read on here that this is typical (6 months from the time you purchase to the time the paperwork is fully processed by Wyndham). 

It sounds like you've done your research for the 12k, but I am probably less helpful for this area since I have a small contract which has worked well for me. Can you explain your thinking when you selected 12k (other than the < two 6k MF math above) so I can tell you if I see any flaws in your thinking?  Maybe give me some hypothetical times, unit size and resorts you'd think you would travel to on an annual basis and I can tell you what the credits cost would be.  For example, a 2 bedroom in AZ (Havasu Dunes) in red season would cost you 10k credits for 7 nights.


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

sue1947 said:


> There are others changes, but these are the main ones that have me considering selling.


Thanks Sue for the perspective, it is very useful and balances my super positive opinions of WM. I think my use case is perhaps less impacted by the changes you mentioned due to the fact that I am usually booking smaller units (1 bd) and I do not book a week (3-4 nights works for me). Regarding the single night stays no longer being an option, I agree this is a bummer and was also a little concerned with them changing the checkout time to 10am in a super casual way (announcing it in an email and like it was no big deal, burying it in the email, basically). 

A note on the "guest certificate required for overlapping stays" for @Mongoose who is not yet an owner so he/she is aware... guest certificates are required if you have more units for the same time period greater than the total owners in the account. Again, I personally am not impacted by this because there are 2 of us on the account which means I could have 2 overlapping reservations without a problem. It would be a third reservation who would cause an issue but, again, since we tend to book smaller units for less than 1 week then I have not yet experienced an instance where this would impact me personally. Nonetheless, if you have larger parties it is certainly something to consider! Thanks again, Sue!


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

Mongoose said:


> So they have 1 night in inventory but won't rent one night at a time?  That doesn't seem well thought out.  Sounds like they are standardizing to some industry norms which would seem make WM less attractive.  Thanks.


Yes, previously (as in just a few weeks ago) you could book a single night if available on the calendar. This means you could string together reservations easier. Single night bookings are no longer an option. I actually asked Vacation Planning about this and they said it was "temporary" but I wonder... I expect this will become permanent. 

BTW, you cannot do this with HGVC either (except for select properties). You can book 3 nights min using your timeshare credits and 2 nights min using "cash bonus time" for Hilton (again, there are exceptions, but most of the resorts in HGVC are like this)....


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

Hobokie said:


> Yes to "Premier Club account on the resale market", although I don't know that there is any other type other than "Premier"....?  But yes, resale.
> 
> Be prepared to WAIT for the transfer. My personal experience was 6 months and I have read on here that this is typical (6 months from the time you purchase to the time the paperwork is fully processed by Wyndham).
> 
> It sounds like you've done your research for the 12k, but I am probably less helpful for this area since I have a small contract which has worked well for me. Can you explain your thinking when you selected 12k (other than the < two 6k MF math above) so I can tell you if I see any flaws in your thinking?  Maybe give me some hypothetical times, unit size and resorts you'd think you would travel to on an annual basis and I can tell you what the credits cost would be.  For example, a 2 bedroom in AZ (Havasu Dunes) in red season would cost you 10k credits for 7 nights.


We want to be able to use it for 3-4 night stays throughout the West as well as an occasional  week in Hawaii.  It seems like 12,000 will allow me to do this.  I first looked at 10,000 credits, but think 12,000 gives a more options for very little difference in MFs.


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

Why do some accounts with the same # of credits have more/less expensive MFs?  Is this because of when they were purchased and the 5% annual limit, so the older ones are lower because the increase is limited?


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

worldmark wyndham
					






					worldtimeshareclub.com
				




See above. A 6k credit account (what I have) pays the same MF as a 7k credit acct... the MF in 2020 was $741.65 which means my credits cost about 12 cents each while someone with a 7k credits acct pays about 10.5 cents per credit. Make sense? This is similar to, for example, HGVC where a 1 bedroom unit at a resort pays the same MF whether it's silver, gold or platinum but the platinum gets more points than the gold and silver for the same MF.   

I think your statement above MAY be false/misinformation on the interwebs as I am not aware of different MFs for accts with the same amount of credits.


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

So I was over on the Worldmark FB owner page and they are pretty down on Worldmark.  They seem to feel is very difficult to get what you want even when reserving 13 months out.  Is this what all of you are experiencing as well?


----------



## rhonda (Sep 27, 2020)

Mongoose said:


> So I was over on the Worldmark FB owner page and they are pretty down on Worldmark.  They seem to feel is very difficult to get what you want even when reserving 13 months out.  Is this what all of you are experiencing as well?


We've owned WM for 20+ years.  We get 98% of every reservation we want.  In my opinion, the FB posts may be from folks who don't truly understand timeshare or how to use it.  Perhaps they bought the idea of a concierge-level hotel club where every request would be quickly met.  The folks on this board, however, are seasoned timeshare owners ... we know how to play the game.  There is a good chance we are more successful with the system than the FB crowd as we've put in the time to learn the system.  Just my $0.02.


----------



## DaveNV (Sep 27, 2020)

Mongoose said:


> So I was over on the Worldmark FB owner page and they are pretty down on Worldmark.  They seem to feel is very difficult to get what you want even when reserving 13 months out.  Is this what all of you are experiencing as well?





rhonda said:


> We've owned WM for 20+ years.  We get 98% of every reservation we want.  In my opinion, the FB posts may be from folks who don't truly understand timeshare or how to use it.  Perhaps they bought the idea of a concierge-level hotel club where every request would be quickly met.  The folks on this board, however, are seasoned timeshare owners ... we know how to play the game.  There is a good chance we are more successful with the system than the FB crowd as we've put in the time to learn the system.  Just my $0.02.



I completely agree with Rhonda.  I have friends who foolishly bought WorldMark from the developer. (After I had repeatedly told them to never do that. They even said as much to me, when they confessed what they'd done - they were embarrassed they'd been roped into the purchase.) They believed every lie they were told.  They bought primarily to go to Maui with all their kids every Spring Break.  They have never been able to book it.  I said they'd have to make the best of it, and even offered to work with them to show them how to book what they want, but it has never happened.  They can't or won't book 13 months out, because they never know what activities their kids will be having, so can't plan that far ahead.  They are disgusted with WorldMark because "it's a waste of money that doesn't work."  I just shake my head and step back. I think those are the types of people who would post on the FB page about how terrible WM is.

My experience is just the opposite.  I am a seasoned timeshare owner, with years of experience owning Weeks.  I sold them all and bought WorldMark when I realized I liked being able to book short stays, and a week at a time didn't always work for me.  WorldMark has been a great fit.  In the last few years I've stayed at the WM resorts in New Orleans, West Yellowstone, St. George, San Francisco, Vancouver BC, Seattle, Leavenworth, and a few times in Las Vegas.  I currently have time booked for next Spring on two islands in Hawaii, and next Fall in Santa Fe.  It takes planning and effort, but WM definitely works, if you know how to work the system.  I have no regrets.

@Mongoose:  If you are thinking WM would work for you, then give it a try.  Buy a smart (fully loaded) resale account - I got mine on eBay for a ridiculously low price.  Use it and see if it works for you.  If you don't like it, you can turn right around and sell it on eBay.  There is demand, and a  market for that.  If you're smart about it, you can't really lose.  You may find it's exactly as it appears - decent resorts in good locations, but you have to work it to get the time there you want.  If you only want the impossible-to-book locations, then it may not be a good choice, and you will likely be disappointed.  And that's where renting from an owner comes in.  Try before you buy.  Caveat emptor, and all that.

Dave


----------



## Mongoose (Sep 27, 2020)

On the resale market, can you access the Wyndham Club Pass locations for the $99 fee?


----------



## Hobokie (Sep 27, 2020)

Mongoose said:


> On the resale market, can you access the Wyndham Club Pass locations for the $99 fee?


No, this requires you to purchase from the developer, but apparently it is not worth it... I, for example, have made a TUG friend who owns Wyndham and if she wanted to book WM or I wanted to book Wyndham we would most likely go through each other vs them (Wyndham/WM). @Sandy VDH , what say you about this?


----------



## Sandy VDH (Sep 27, 2020)

Hobokie said:


> No, this requires you to purchase from the developer, but apparently it is not worth it... I, for example, have made a TUG friend who owns Wyndham and if she wanted to book WM or I wanted to book Wyndham we would most likely go through each other vs them (Wyndham/WM). @Sandy VDH , what day you about this?



I don't like club pass for a few reasons  (and rarely use it, and I have access to it):

its not online, you have to call, and that is too time consuming on many occasions as you have to call verify your id, then get passed to the Club pass desk, then verify your id again.  So it is way too cumbersome, but I understand why, it is two separate systems.
You have to pay a $99 fee, where as wyndham bookings are $19 or free (if you have free transactions left, or unlimited transactions).
No VIP discounts apply (if you Not VIP this is not an issue)
Now I usually want to go to the WM resorts that have a lot of Monday Madness (MM) and Inventory specials (IS) ( see the WM website at https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/inventory_specials/ to see what I am talking about).  And usually am booking within 90 days so MM and IS works better for me.  Since it is on MM or IS it is cheaper than my costs on the point plus the $99 fee.   So I would rather rent from a WM owner and I have a few in the wings that we have talked, and I will reciprocate and obtain VIPP reservations for them.  

Now if I was looking for a unit a long way out and needed to confirm something I would then consider Club Pass.  I visited Fiji last year and tried to book a unit there, but there was never availability for the days that I needed to match up with a Tradewinds cruise I was taking.  So in the end I just used hotel points and stayed at the Hilton near the Marina.   So I have tried, but failed to use club pass.

I honestly just wished that Wyndham and Worldmark, which I know because of law judgements can't officially merge into a single club, however I do wish that they would, going forward for all new resorts, consider dual branding them. So some units in Wyndham and some units in Worldmark.  They could be divided by building or floors of whatever device they need.  They have done it in several locations including the new build in Austin which has WM floors and Wynd floors.  I would love to go to Moab sometime or back to Yellowstone.  Both of these are WM only, and my guess is that are going to be hard to get to via WM and impossible via Club Pass.   Remember the window for club pass is even less than WM window, so all the high demand stuff is long gone by the time Club Pass is allowed access.


----------

