# Westin Flex - No more buybacks?



## Wonk (Jan 23, 2019)

In a sales update last week I was told that they were going to discontinue buying back units in a couple of months.  Perhaps this was to encourage me to buy into Westin Flex now rather than later.  Anyone else receive this pitch?


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## DeniseM (Jan 23, 2019)

The bottom line is that you can't believe anything that a salesman says - they will say whatever it takes to get you to buy.  I don't believe this for a second - Vistana will continue cherry picking the resales they want (exercising ROFR) so they can put them in the Flex Inventory.


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## DannyTS (Jan 23, 2019)

Wonk said:


> In a sales update last week I was told that they were going to discontinue buying back units in a couple of months.  Perhaps this was to encourage me to buy into Westin Flex now rather than later.  Anyone else receive this pitch?


BUY NOW THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE! 

I am just kidding. I was told something similar  last July, that by the end of August these programs would no longer be available.


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## Snowonbeach (Jan 23, 2019)

We went to an update today at Westin Resort and Spa in Cancun. We were told that things could change on February 13. They were recommending we buy Westin Adventuras before the price went up.


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## PamMo (Jan 23, 2019)

Wonk said:


> In a sales update last week I was told that they were going to discontinue buying back units in a couple of months...



Were they saying they won't take deeded weeks back (plus cash) to enroll in Flex?  Don't believe it for a second. If they want to keep selling Flex (high profit margins), they need new inventory, because they can't sell more than they own. Since ALL the prices are inflated in a sales presentation, they try to convince the naive that they're getting a great deal if they buy NOW!

Or, were they saying they won't ever exercise ROFR in a few months?  Again, that's the salesperson trying to close a sale. Picking up a relatively cheap VOI is a good way for Vistana to get inventory for Flex.


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## Wonk (Jan 23, 2019)

They were saying they won't take deeded weeks back (plus cash) to enroll in Flex.


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## Ken555 (Jan 24, 2019)

Wonk said:


> In a sales update last week I was told that they were going to discontinue buying back units in a couple of months.  Perhaps this was to encourage me to buy into Westin Flex now rather than later.  Anyone else receive this pitch?



Hahahahahahahaha

Suuuuuuure.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 24, 2019)

Vistana will continue to offer this in order to continue to drive sales. All of these offers still require you to bring new money to the table. It is a way to get people to buy in to the facade of Flex. They also want to target mandatory weeks for buyback so they can convert them in to voluntary Flex. I wonder if this will make resale mandatory harder to find and drive prices up some?


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## DannyTS (Jan 25, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> Vistana will continue to offer this in order to continue to drive sales. All of these offers still require you to bring new money to the table. It is a way to get people to buy in to the facade of Flex. They also want to target mandatory weeks for buyback so they can convert them in to voluntary Flex. I wonder if this will make resale mandatory harder to find and drive prices up some?


i was wondering the same. I was also wondering if the new proposed legislation (if it passes) that targets the exit companies will not dry up the ebay well, a source of cheap TS for many.


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## JudyS (Jan 25, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> i was wondering the same. I was also wondering if the new proposed legislation (if it passes) that targets the exit companies will not dry up the ebay well, a source of cheap TS for many.


Are there threads here about this new legislation?

Also, does anyone know if Vistana ever takes desirable Sheraton inventory back as a requalify for Westin flex? Or, can Sheraton weeks only be used to requalify into Sheraton flex? (Not that I'm certain either system, Westin Flex or Sheraton Flex, is worth owning. I'm just curious.)


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## DannyTS (Jan 25, 2019)

JudyS said:


> Are there threads here about this new legislation?


https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...f-cancellation-companies.285027/#post-2240045


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

from the 3rd quarter MVC conference call:
"We also see the potential to enhance Vistana's VPG by utilizing MVW's pricing strategy that are designed to improve overall closing efficiency while enhancing the average contract value."
so it seems that they are going to align the sales strategies


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

I am wondering if the ever increasing desire for MVC to bring more people to the Vistana (and Marriott) resorts in order to feed the sales machine does not have a long term effect of degrading the resort facilities on the expense of the regular owner. In the end we are the ones that pay the maintenance fees while the developer enjoys the higher rental and sales revenue.
More renters means higher occupancy rates, longer check in lines, worse restaurant services,  faster degradation of the furniture etc (so higher MF)

It is also interesting to note that the ones that rent directly from MVC-Vistana get daily cleaning vs weekly. I am wondering if MVC-Vistana is at least paying for that extra cost or if the regular owners are  paying in reality for those additional  cleanings and the cost goes to the general resort budget.

I noticed in the Tripadvisor reviews for some Vistana resorts, it seems that the frequency of complains about longer check in lines and high pressure sales tactics have increased.

From the same conference call
"In our rental business, rental revenues increased $20 million or 30% to $86 million. Rental revenues net of expenses were $12 million, a 34% increase from the prior year. Legacy MVW rental revenues, net of expenses were $12 million, a 31% increase from the prior year"


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 27, 2019)

Our datapoint for MVC Ko Olina: the lines were horrible (almost a half hour wait or more) and not just on a specific check-in day. As a guest, I felt like cattle.  Our room was not ready by check-in time and we didn't get into the room until 3 hours later after we waited in long line (2x!) to check on the status (they were supposed to text when ready). We also had a problem with cockroaches in our room and had to move out of the room for the better part of a day so they could fumigate the floor.  So far not very impressed with MVC.

We have an upcoming stay at the Las Vegas location, so hopefully this datapoint will be better.

I cannot recall a long line more than 1 or 3 people at the many HGVCs where we have stayed.  If regular line forms the elite line will take guests. At Hilton Hawaiian Village TS they frequently greet us with leis when we enter the line.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I am wondering if the ever increasing desire for MVC to bring more people to the Vistana (and Marriott) resorts in order to feed the sales machine does not have a long term effect of degrading the resort facilities on the expense of the regular owner. In the end we are the ones that pay the maintenance fees while the developer enjoys the higher rental and sales revenue.
> More renters means higher occupancy rates, longer check in lines, worse restaurant services,  faster degradation of the furniture etc (so higher MF)
> 
> It is also interesting to note that the ones that rent directly from MVC-Vistana get daily cleaning vs weekly. I am wondering if MVC-Vistana is at least paying for that extra cost or if the regular owners are  paying in reality for those additional  cleanings and the cost goes to the general resort budget.
> ...


Marriott doesn't seem to . be skimping on keeping the resorts and villas up to par, our MFs show it. The HOAs do receive a payback for the daily housekeeping on cash/Bonvoy stays as well as DC trust point stays. I haven't noticed any issues with longer lines and there never really seems to be issues with restaurants being busy at any timeshare I have been to. Since the developers own, manage and receive all of the revenue from food and beverage, it wouldn't be to their benefit to short staff these as people do have off site options.


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Our datapoint for MVC Ko Olina: the lines were horrible (almost a half hour wait or more) and not just on a specific check-in day. As a guest, I felt like cattle.  Our room was not ready by check-in time and we didn't get into the room until 3 hours later after we waited in line (again!) to check on the status (they were supposed to text when ready). We also had a problem with cockroaches in our room and had to move out of the room for the better part of a day so they could fumigate the floor.  So far not very impressed with MVC.
> 
> We have an upcoming stay at the Las Vegas location, so hopefully this datapoint will be better.
> 
> I cannot recall a long line more than 1 or 3 people at the many HGVCs where we have stayed.  If regular line forms the elite line will take guests. At Hilton Hawaiian Village TS they frequently greet us with leis when we enter the line.


It is not just the higher number of people that may check in. The ones that buy promotional packages through the loyalty programs have higher demands since the developers target gold and platinum members. Once they arrive at the resort, they expect certain upgrades (floor, view, size, early check in, late check out) due to their status that may be hard to meet when resorts run at 92% capacity in average and very close to 100% during busy seasons. Of course the owners know what they can get and cannot get but that is not the case for the ones that rented through Marriott.
To make things worse, because Marriott-Vistana hope to sell them timeshares, they want to please these guests whether they have the means to do it or not. This may lead to additional frustration both for the renters and the staff hence the more negative reviews.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> To make things worse, because Marriott-Vistana hope to sell them timeshare, they want to please these people whether they have the means to do it or not. This may lead to additional frustration both for the renters and the staff hence the more negative reviews.



We were there on a discounted promotional stay and attended the required presentation. They did very little to impress us to buy.


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The HOAs do receive a payback for the daily housekeeping on cash/Bonvoy stays as well as DC trust point stays. .



it is not clear to me if this is the case.
i am looking at the Lagunamar 2018, 2017, 2016 budget.

There is only one line that would include that kind of revenue and it actually went down from 2016 to 2018 by quite a bit.
2016 budget: Club Rental Revenue (4) (323,364).    It is negative because it subtracts from the resort expenses. 
2017 budget: Club Rental Revenue (4) ($296,082) 
2018 budget: Club Rental Revenue (4) ($220,202)

So the number of renters goes up but the rental revenue goes down. This is interesting


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We were there on a discounted promotional stay and attended the required presentation. They did very little to impress us to buy.


right, but you kind of knew what to expect. My point was that the people who buy these packages and do not own timeshare may have different expectations.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 27, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> right, but you kind of knew what to expect. My point was that the people who buy these packages and do not own timeshare may have different expectations.



Actually we were surprised. When we have had promo stays with HGVC and Hyatt, they put us in a nice room and even had staff come out and greet to help us check in as a "VIP".  Trying to convince us to spend $50 - $100k so we can stay there again when we are placed in a crap room, and stand in long lines multiple times is not very compelling.  The resort is beautiful, but I believe we could stay there by renting or II getaways or stay at other options.


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

what is also interesting in the same budget, the bad debt is shared by the owners
Bad Debt (8) 160,252

But Vistana rents those condos that are in arrears and keeps  the revenue. This is not insignificant, probably around 300,000-400,000 every year at Lagunamar. When you multiply this by the number of resorts, it may add up to tens of millions every year for a company like MVC.


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## Ken555 (Jan 27, 2019)

Danny,

All your new points on this thread have been discussed many, many times on TUG over the years. It really hasn’t changed. Obviously, and I know you are aware, Marriott will definitely find ways to improve profit as a result of the merger. There are numerous costs that owners pay in some form that may seem objectionable. This has always been the case, and it’s not going to change. 

I have always had lines in Maui at the Westin resorts, sometimes long, and sometimes (not infrequently) with a surly front desk clerk. The “concierge” desks at all the resorts make my skin crawl since they’re looking for a mark, and they know who we are...I always feel like I’m about to buy a used car when all I want to know is if there are any new restaurants in the area. 

I enjoy the resorts a lot, and I’m sure we all have our favorites. Sometimes they need more careful cleaning, other times it’s clear they have poorly trained staff (as I experienced at Nanea in Dec), but in general the product is quite nice. I’m willing to overlook a lot to have an enjoyable affordable stay, and Westin has done that for me. 

Perspective.


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## DannyTS (Jan 27, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Danny,
> 
> All your new points on this thread have been discussed many, many times on TUG over the years. It really hasn’t changed. Obviously, and I know you are aware, Marriott will definitely find ways to improve profit as a result of the merger. There are numerous costs that owners pay in some form that may seem objectionable. This has always been the case, and it’s not going to change.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken555, I actually enjoy my timeshares a lot and i do think that Vistana has done a great job overall. Somehow in less than a year we ended up buying  4 Vistana weeks, this is how much we like it. I have also encouraged many of my friends  to buy resale, I think it is a type of vacation that is hard to bit for a certain budget and if you want a certain quality of accommodation.

I realize that few if any of my comments are anything new on this site. In the end, people with 10-15 and 25 years of timeshare experience have seen it all. I am also not that naive to believe that I (or anyone here) can change anything, what we can do is to enjoy what we have and follow the rules in place.
Yet, this forum is a living organism and many topics will come back every once in a while.

My criticism comes from a good place and i do not think that a healthy amount of criticism is bad, we should keep them honest in the end. Am i frustrated sometimes thinking "Marriott is doing this, Vistana is doing that..." Yes i am and this is why i added VAC to my portfolio late last year, to hedge against the seemingly never ending cycle of fee increases. Not that we cannot afford the increases, just not to bother me at all since i will know i will make the money at the other side... many times over actually.


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## JudyS (Jan 28, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> what is also interesting in the same budget, the bad debt is shared by the owners
> Bad Debt (8) 160,252
> 
> But Vistana rents those condos that are in arrears and keeps  the revenue. This is not insignificant, probably around 300,000-400,000 every year at Lagunamar. When you multiply this by the number of resorts, it may add up to tens of millions every year for a company like MVC.


I had assumed the bad debt only showed up as a MF expense if the resort had *not* been able to bring in sufficient funds to cover them via renting. Am I wrong about this?


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## DannyTS (Jan 28, 2019)

JudyS said:


> I had assumed the bad debt only showed up as a MF expense if the resort had *not* been able to bring in sufficient funds to cover them via renting. Am I wrong about this?


The $ amount of bad debt in the budget and the % of contracts in default that the resort discloses match so the answer appears to be that the rental revenue does not come back to the HOA even if the owners do pay for the MF of those units.


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## JudyS (Jan 28, 2019)

JudyS said:


> I had assumed the bad debt only showed up as a MF expense if the resort had *not* been able to bring in sufficient funds to cover them via renting. Am I wrong about this?





DannyTS said:


> The $ amount of bad debt in the budget and the % of contracts in default that the resort discloses match so the answer appears to be no


I am confused here. I think you are saying that the $ amount of bad debt equals the total amount of MFs for the units in arrears. And, that therefore, rental income from renting delinquent units does not go to the HOA. This would mean that I am wrong about the funds going to the HOA. So, the answer to my question, "Am I wrong about [rental fees going to the HOA]" would actually be, "Yes, you are wrong about that." Is that what you meant to say?

I actually find it hard to believe that a management company could get away with just renting HOA-owned weeks out, and then pocketing the proceeds. Clearly, the Manhattan club was doing that. But, I believed they were successfully sued for it.

About the earlier comment regarding housekeeping fees, I also find it hard to believe that an HOA would pay for daily housekeeping (or any housekeeping) for cash rentals where the HOA was not getting the rental proceeds. This really sounds quite illegal. I'd expect daily housekeeping fees for cash rentals of management-owner inventory would not show up in the HOA budget at all. These expenses should simply be separate from the HOA, as are expenses for food purchased to be sold in the resort's restaurants.

Does anyone know more about this? Or know whom to ask?


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## DannyTS (Jan 28, 2019)

JudyS said:


> I am confused here. I think you are saying that the $ amount of bad debt equals the total amount of MFs for the units in arrears. And, that therefore, rental income from renting delinquent units does not go to the HOA. This would mean that I am wrong about the funds going to the HOA. So, the answer to my question, "Am I wrong about [rental fees going to the HOA]" would actually be, "Yes, you are wrong about that." Is that what you meant to say?
> 
> I actually find it hard to believe that a management company could get away with just renting HOA-owned weeks out, and then pocketing the proceeds. Clearly, the Manhattan club was doing that. But, I believed they were successfully sued for it.
> 
> ...



I edited my answer, you are right, the way i had written it as a reply to your comment was confusing. 

I am not sure whom to contact if you want Vistana to clarify this, maybe:

Donna Sidman

boardrelations@vistana.com

BOARD RELATIONS SPECIALIST


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## capo3200 (Jan 31, 2019)

Be careful with your expectaions for Westin Flex.  At this time there is limited availablity/inventory and while "Flex" is sold as if you have access to high demand resorts and weeks . . . I understand now that Vistana's flex inventory is separate from "regular" ownership and as a result you are competing with other flex owners for a very limited supply; especially for high demand resorts/weeks.  Disappointing when you look 357 days out and the website indicates reservation window opens 4 months from now.  I did call and was told, yes, that is how it works.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 31, 2019)

JudyS said:


> I am confused here. I think you are saying that the $ amount of bad debt equals the total amount of MFs for the units in arrears. And, that therefore, rental income from renting delinquent units does not go to the HOA. This would mean that I am wrong about the funds going to the HOA. So, the answer to my question, "Am I wrong about [rental fees going to the HOA]" would actually be, "Yes, you are wrong about that." Is that what you meant to say?
> 
> I actually find it hard to believe that a management company could get away with just renting HOA-owned weeks out, and then pocketing the proceeds. Clearly, the Manhattan club was doing that. But, I believed they were successfully sued for it.
> 
> ...


It's been years since I read up on this but my recollection is the HOA gives the developer the HOA owned and controlled inventory.  The developer rents it out.  The developer takes 40% commission (I believe off the top) and then any housekeeping expenses come out and the remainder goes back to the HOA to offset the bad debt.


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## controller1 (Jan 31, 2019)

capo3200 said:


> Be careful with your expectaions for Westin Flex. At this time there is limited availablity/inventory and while "Flex" is sold as if you have access to high demand resorts and weeks . . . I understand now that Vistana's flex inventory is separate from "regular" ownership and as a result you are competing with other flex owners for a very limited supply; especially for high demand resorts/weeks. Disappointing when you look 357 days out and the website indicates reservation window opens 4 months from now. I did call and was told, yes, that is how it works.



Looking 357 days out would also probably yield the same results for a regular weeks owner.  For a high demand resort/week you need to look 365 days out.  That is quite common knowledge for experienced Vistana owners.


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## DannyTS (Jan 31, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> It's been years since I read up on this but my recollection is the HOA gives the developer the HOA owned and controlled inventory.  The developer rents it out.  The developer takes 40% commission (I believe off the top) and then any housekeeping expenses come out and the remainder goes back to the HOA to offset the bad debt.


the financial statements for the developers show  a healthy annual increase in rental revenue while the HOA rental revenue numbers keep on going down. It is hard for me to square the two.


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## travelpager (Jul 10, 2020)

I won't claim to understand all the posts on this particular thread, but I will attest to the fact that yesterday Westin Sales suggested I sell back either my Sheraton Flex or my deeded week at Westin Kierland Villa to cover cost of purchasing Westin Flex. Needless to say, 2020 ain't 2019 (when this thread first started). My point is that right now, mid-2020, buybacks are very much still a thing within VSE.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 11, 2020)

travelpager said:


> I won't claim to understand all the posts on this particular thread, but I will attest to the fact that yesterday Westin Sales suggested I sell back either my Sheraton Flex or my deeded week at Westin Kierland Villa to cover cost of purchasing Westin Flex. Needless to say, 2020 ain't 2019 (when this thread first started). My point is that right now, mid-2020, buybacks are very much still a thing within VSE.


Of course they want to swoop up that WKV mandatory week and fold it in to flex. I wouldn't be surprised if they are in need of sales and willing to take trade-ins again.


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## jabberwocky (Jul 11, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Of course they want to swoop up that WKV mandatory week and fold it in to flex. I wouldn't be surprised if they are in need of sales and willing to take trade-ins again.


They are still selling WKV weeks as well - so I can see them doing trades to build up that inventory too.


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## pchung6 (Jul 11, 2020)

I just received the call from Vistana sales we talked in Nanea last year.  They want to swap Westin Flex points with my WKORVN OF and SVV mandatory weeks with "Only" $10k new cash. Now they tried to sell me that I can convert to Bonvoy points without going unused because pandemic. No thanks.


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## controller1 (Jul 11, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> I just received the call from Vistana sales we talked in Nanea last year.  They want to swap Westin Flex points with my WKORVN OF and SVV mandatory weeks with "Only" $10k new cash. Now they tried to sell me that I can convert to Bonvoy points without going unused because pandemic. No thanks.



So they want you to give up your WKORVN OF?


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## travelpager (Jul 11, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> I just received the call from Vistana sales we talked in Nanea last year.  They want to swap Westin Flex points with my WKORVN OF and SVV mandatory weeks with "Only" $10k new cash. Now they tried to sell me that I can convert to Bonvoy points without going unused because pandemic. No thanks.



Yup. This. My response was the very same.


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## vacationtime1 (Jul 12, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> I just received the call from Vistana sales we talked in Nanea last year.  They want to swap Westin Flex points with my WKORVN OF and SVV mandatory weeks with "Only" $10k new cash. Now they tried to sell me that I can convert to Bonvoy points without going unused because pandemic. No thanks.



lol


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## pchung6 (Jul 15, 2020)

controller1 said:


> So they want you to give up your WKORVN OF?


Yes, they want to take back WKORVN OF because with Westin Flex, I can convert to Bonvoy points if I can't use my usage from pandemic.  They said Bonvoy points have no expiration.


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## controller1 (Jul 15, 2020)

pchung6 said:


> Yes, they want to take back WKORVN OF because with Westin Flex, I can convert to Bonvoy points if I can't use my usage from pandemic.  They said Bonvoy points have no expiration.



I bet they want OceanFront back but remember you would not be able to reserve OF until 8 months prior to reservation since there is no OceanFront in Westin Flex.  Bonvoy Points don't expire for Lifetime Elite Bonvoy members but they do for others. Additionally, Bonvoy Points earned from conversion of StarOptions are supposed to expire six years after being awarded if they haven't been used.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 15, 2020)

controller1 said:


> Additionally, Bonvoy Points earned from conversion of StarOptions are supposed to expire six years after being awarded if they haven't been used.


That was the rule with old StarPoints, but does Bonvoy even have a mechanism to expire their points based on the source?


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 15, 2020)

If their lips are moving...
WKORV/N OF villas are not part of Westin Flex.
But sure they would be happy to take back - just not going to end up in Flex.


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## controller1 (Jul 15, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> That was the rule with old StarPoints, but does Bonvoy even have a mechanism to expire their points based on the source?



I don't know if they have the mechanism but it is still in the T&C of the Marriott Bonvoy program.

*7.2 Vistana Signature Network and Vistana Residence Network
7.2.a  Vistana Additional Information.*
vi. Points issued or earned through Vistana, including, without limitation, through tour incentives, purchase incentives, Marriott Bonvoy Conversion, sweepstakes and other giveaway prizes, will expire six (6) years following the date they are deposited into a Member’s account, regardless of Member activity. All such Points, or any portion thereof, which have not been redeemed by their six (6) year expiration period, will be forfeited without notice.


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## YYJMSP (Jul 16, 2020)

controller1 said:


> I don't know if they have the mechanism but it is still in the T&C of the Marriott Bonvoy program.



I'm sure you can launder the points by booking and cancelling hotel rooms using points a few times, as long as you had other points there already in addition to those gained from conversion who's to say which were the converted points...

on the other hand, those points will likely continue to devalue as long as you hold them as redemption requirements in general get more expensive each year, so it's your best interest to use them up sooner than later


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## controller1 (Jul 16, 2020)

YYJMSP said:


> I'm sure you can launder the points by booking and cancelling hotel rooms using points a few times, as long as you had other points there already in addition to those gained from conversion who's to say which were the converted points...
> 
> on the other hand, those points will likely continue to devalue as long as you hold them as redemption requirements in general get more expensive each year, so it's your best interest to use them up sooner than later



I hope everyone realizes I was not advocating hoarding points for a six-year or more period. I was simply replying to the post stating the salesman stated Bonvoy points did not expire.


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## Venter (Oct 16, 2020)

Good morning,

It seems the buy backs offered are for specific units only.
We have been to two presentations and at both were told that out resale units cannot be bought back.
We have resale Flex points (two packages) odd years and resale winter week at Lakeside terrace every even years.
The one presentation was January at Westin Riverfront and the other two days ago at Westin Lagunamar.
I don't know if makes a difference that what we own are in Vistana/Sheraton although at the first presentation we could buy either Westin or Sheraton Flex.  We were offered Aventuras only at Lagumar.
If we were offered buy back and able to simplify things I would probably have jumped but they also did not offer the reduced prices I have seen mentioned to bring the units into the system.
I like the idea of Aventuras as it is cheaper per point and maintenance fee is cheaper per point and I will not mind booking 8 months out.
Currently we book our Flex short term in advanced for weekend or weekday stays. Currently have three days midweek in between Christmas and New Year booked at Steamboat in a two bedroom for not many points.  Our two bedroom winter week at Lakeside Terrace we use as a good trader.
Ideally I would like buy back of the Flex points but bring the Lakeside Terrace into the system only.  Maybe I should start the pitch that way when they ask why we are there.


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## jabberwocky (Oct 16, 2020)

Not all locations can sell all of the available lines.  If you go to Orlando they can only sell SFlex, in Mexico it will be Aventuras.  

A few places like SDO and Riverfront can sell anything in the system because they are relatively small and don't have much onsite inventory available (a legacy issue from when you had to buy a week), but others pretty much can only sell one product line - and will sometimes still be able to sell you an actual week.

You may have better luck with central sales over the phone in putting together a deal that works for you.  I don't think they will do a straight buy-back of a Flex package.  They may allow you to switch from one program to the other or consolidate packages, but you'll have to bring new money in.


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## soldierguy (Jun 3, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> The bottom line is that you can't believe anything that a salesman says - they will say whatever it takes to get you to buy.  I don't believe this for a second - Vistana will continue cherry picking the resales they want (exercising ROFR) so they can put them in the Flex Inventory.


They offered to buy back our 2 Nanea (HI) contracts yesterday so we could “upgrade” (I honestly cannot tell if that’s an upgrade or not) just yesterday...


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## daviator (Jun 3, 2021)

soldierguy said:


> They offered to buy back our 2 Nanea (HI) contracts yesterday so we could “upgrade” (I honestly cannot tell if that’s an upgrade or not) just yesterday...


Vistana has repeatedly offered to buy back my EOY Flex and apply 100% of what I paid to EY Flex, they did this as recently as April of this year.  They also offered to buy back my WKORV week.  I think they will buy almost anything back if you are turning around and spending more money, and especially if they can get you to exchange deeded weeks for Flex.


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## duke (Jun 3, 2021)

They told me this week that buy back can only be done on developer purchases.  Requal weeks (or resale) are not eligible.  New policy.  Also, New money requirement is $30k minimum to get the deal.........


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## JohnPaul (Jun 3, 2021)

duke said:


> They told me this week that buy back can only be done on developer purchases.  Requal weeks (or resale) are not eligible.  New policy.  Also, New money requirement is $30k minimum to get the deal.........



We were only offered buy back of our developer week.  They tried to ignore our resale week.  This was a few days ago.


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## RunCat (Jun 3, 2021)

A few years ago, I sold my EOY SMV Summer (2B L/O 81,000) to get Sheraton Flex EY.  Considering the MFs at SMV (ski location) it seemed like a smart move to me. And since SMV is now part of Flex (it wasn't at the time), it seems like an even better move.  
And yes, we like SMV.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 3, 2021)

duke said:


> They told me this week that buy back can only be done on developer purchases.  Requal weeks (or resale) are not eligible.  New policy.  Also, New money requirement is $30k minimum to get the deal.........


This was of course told to you at a sales presentation/owner update?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Jun 3, 2021)

They offer to buy back our Lagunamar at cost ($16K) every time we go for an update. Most recently it was as part exchange for Flex options or when I baulked at that they offered to take it as part exchange for a WKORVN 2BR IV ($49K-$16K). I was almost tempted until I came to my senses and realized I could keep Lagunamar, buy the WKORVN 2BR IV resale and still be $20K+ to the good


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