# Should I convert Wyndham fixed weeks to Club Wyndham Plus?



## JustAllie (Dec 30, 2009)

I have two fixed weeks at Wyndham properties in Williamsburg, VA -- week 16 at Patriots' Place, and week 17 at Kingsgate.   In some past years I've rented them out privately, and once or twice I've used my actual weeks myself or given them to family members.  In the past couple of years I've been able to exchange the weeks using the FAX program or via RCI, but I sometimes find that I waste half a week because I can't take a full week's vacation. 

At the end of October, Wyndham sent out a letter saying that they are closing down the FAX program.  Obviously I still have the option of using my week or renting it out privately, or I can still exchange via RCI Weeks.  But they offered a 25% discount off the $2,395 fee to upgrade to Club Wyndham Plus, their points exhange program.  I guess this would give me the flexibility to use partial weeks and so on.  

The question is -- would it be worth it for me to do this?  What have others' experiences been in using the Club Wyndham Plus program?  Would switching to Club Wyndham Plus also switch me from RCI Weeks to RCI Points?  

I've felt pretty burdened down by the timeshare weeks, but a friend of mine has offered to buy one of my weeks because she thinks she and her husband could use it.  (I told them that as long as they cover the transfer costs, I don't expect to get any additional $$ for the week -- I would just be relieved to avoid the maintenance fees on the second week.)  I could ask my friend if she'd be willing to cover the upgrade fee on the week she would be buying to use with her husband. At that point with just one timeshare week I would find it easy to use or trade.  

Before proceeding, I thought I'd seek advice here about the value of the Club Wyndham Plus program.  Any thoughts?  Is it worth $1,796 per week to gain the flexibility of the points system?  Any idea how it would affect my maintenance fees?


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## timeos2 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Not many times a developer offer makes any sense*



JustAllie said:


> I have two fixed weeks at Wyndham properties in Williamsburg, VA -- week 16 at Patriots' Place, and week 17 at Kingsgate.   In some past years I've rented them out privately, and once or twice I've used my actual weeks myself or given them to family members.  In the past couple of years I've been able to exchange the weeks using the FAX program or via RCI, but I sometimes find that I waste half a week because I can't take a full week's vacation.
> 
> At the end of October, Wyndham sent out a letter saying that they are closing down the FAX program.  Obviously I still have the option of using my week or renting it out privately, or I can still exchange via RCI Weeks.  But they offered a 25% discount off the $2,395 fee to upgrade to Club Wyndham Plus, their points exhange program.  I guess this would give me the flexibility to use partial weeks and so on.
> 
> ...



IMO a guarded yes. The Wyndham Points system is a very good one. Usually buying from the Developer makes zero sense but you are getting a significant discount - a true one time offer.  Please understand that you COULD buy or otherwise obtain an equal number of Wyndham Points more cheaply on resale but you'd still have your weeks and the fees that go with them in addition to the points and their fees. Converting means not having to deal with disposal of those weeks, saving closing costs yet you still end up with the far more usable Wyndham Points. Also realize the resale value of those points is nearly zero, do it only if you'll really get the value out of the use. 

Unless you want to try to get out of the Wyndham system entirely in this case a conversion fee might not be a bad thing to do.


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## e.bram (Dec 30, 2009)

Timeos2 must be working for Wyndham. Why throw good money after bad?


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 30, 2009)

Patriot probably gives you 154k.  Kingsgate if it is 2 BD, gives you 126k.  You can check the resale price at eBay.  Both MF ratio will be fair, not gereat

Just pure from that point of view, even if you convert both, it gives you less than 300k, so not very helpful.  You are the same as buying resale.

On the other hand, it sometimes is very hard to get rid of TS, especially at this kind of situation,  

Tug usually do 10 year anaylsis.  If you decide to continue keep the TS for 10 more years, you will look at the same MF plus club membership, which assume you give 1 week away, will be a little over 100.  It will cover your RCI membership due.

The good thing is now you can split your vacation to maybe 2 3 days stay.  And with the conversion, you will have access to RCI point inventory.  Although the exchange process will now be a nightmare, it does increase your flexibility.  Based on your description, that maybe good.

You have to decide how much you value the RCI nightly stay.  Since that is the only benefit you will not get from resale.

Otherwise, you are compare the straight conversion, or sell your week and purchase a point package (which since it does not include RCI nightly stay, will be cheaper on club due).  154k resale probably is about few hundred total now.  That means you are looking at something cost $1,300  For 10 years.

That is about $130 per year.  If you do like split week, take few min vacation here and there, and for some reason don't want to get rid of your week, you should do the conversion.

Sale your week, at this moment, you may need to add some worse case scenario, and add like $500 cost into it.  I will a little bit close to convert if I am in your situation.

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 30, 2009)

If Kingsgate is 3 BD, than you will get a better MF ratio, and after convert, you will get VIP, which allow you a little bit discount and take more short trip internally, than conversion make more sense, but it will now require you to keep both weeks and add a little bit more cost on club due.

Jya-Ning


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## Aussiedog (Dec 30, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> IMO a guarded yes. The Wyndham Points system is a very good one. Usually buying from the Developer makes zero sense but you are getting a significant discount - a true one time offer.  Please understand that you COULD buy or otherwise obtain an equal number of Wyndham Points more cheaply on resale but you'd still have your weeks and the fees that go with them in addition to the points and their fees. Converting means not having to deal with disposal of those weeks, saving closing costs yet you still end up with the far more usable Wyndham Points. Also realize the resale value of those points is nearly zero, do it only if you'll really get the value out of the use.
> 
> Unless you want to try to get out of the Wyndham system entirely in this case a conversion fee might not be a bad thing to do.



I think John gives a very fair assessment of the option to convert to points.  If you want out of the timeshare world conversion makes no sense.  But if you think you may want to stay in timesharing for a while this may be a very good way to go - I do not see this a throwing good money after bad.

Personally, I have no real issues with Wyndham at all.  I find their system easy to use and really appreciate the option of vacationing for less than a full week.  You also have a large network of resorts to choose from without having to leave the Wyndham system.  

The wildcard may be the actual number of points you would receive in the conversion.  Have you looked at the point system to see if the amount is large enough to use in high seasons at most of their resorts?

Ann


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 30, 2009)

What size units do you own? 
The VIP issue is important as you get free HK for you short stays, discounts off reservations made at the 60 or less on checkin and free upgrade in unit sizes at the 30 day or less before checkin. You also get 5 Guest Certificates (if you rent or gift a vacation to someone) instead of 1 (another benefit which has a $396 value if used each year).


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 30, 2009)

As the owner of Kingsgate week 18, 3BR lock-off there is no way I would consider it . . . period!  My guess is for the $1,800 it would cost you to do that for one week, you could pick up 150-200k in points whereever you'd like and perhaps even at a better MF rate.

While the points will give you some new found flexibility, you will also find yourself questioning recently implemented policies such as limiting your ability to rent your points to other owners, or renting more points from owners to supplement what you have.

If they (Wyndham) are offering you something, there is still something MORE in it for them.  "JUST SAY NO."


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## randyz (Dec 31, 2009)

I converted a fixed week (Avenue Plaza) years ago under similar circumstances and have never regretted it. Assuming you want to stay in timeshare, but you need more flexibility, it would seem to be a good thing for you as it was for me. Issues I can think of are:

1. You can probably buy points cheaper resale (I have done so) but if you did this you still have your fixed weeks ownership to deal with. Considering the costs associated with purchasing new points and disposing of your current weeks, I wouldn't expect the cost difference/savings to be substantial. 

2. If you convert to points you not only have flexible days, but remember you can get different size units as appropriate. I assume you currently have fixed weeks, this too will become flexible. You maintain access to your current fixed week via ARP.

3. Do remember your MF will increase upon conversion because you will add the Club Wyndham plus program fee. Currently that is 51 cents per thousand points (higher if you own less points, I think the cutoff is 300K annual points someone can correct me if I am wrong). Keep in mind that this "additional" cost grants you more flexibility so you may actually use your time and not give it away. Furthermore, you will no longer have to pay exchange fees to use RCI etc, this could completely offset the program fee.

4. If you know ahead of your use year that you will not be timesharing that year you can bank your points in the credit pool for a fee. Good for 3 years. Again you would not have to "give" your time away. Additionally, by pooling your points you could accumulate enough for the more expensive points resorts should your conversion not be enough annually for places like Hawaii.

Hope this helps you. Randy


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## Bill4728 (Dec 31, 2009)

If you'd be willing to sell/give away your current TS, you can purchase a resale wyndham TS which is already in points for *much, MUCH * less than what wyn will charge you to convert your TS to points. 

So, The answer is, convert only if you do not want to go thru the hassle of selling your current TS. 

OR  you can get all the benefits of a Wyn pts by buying a resale wyndham TS which is already in points, and keep your current TS and have it outside of points. BUT this would mean you'd be doubling the number of TS you own. (considering I own 5 TSs, that would be the option I'd take but you may not wish to own that many TSs.)


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## JustAllie (Jan 2, 2010)

Wow, lots to consider.  What is the "RCI Nightly Stay" thing about?



vacationhopeful said:


> What size units do you own?


I didn't realize this would be an issue in the consideration.

My week at Patriots' Place is a 2-bedroom lockoff (sleeps 8) and the week at Kingsgate is a 2-bedroom (no lockoff, sleeps 6).  I haven't looked into the points value of them if converted.  I'm kind of dreading the conversation with Wyndham because every time I've talked to them about my timeshares, it has been with a salesperson who wants me to cough up a bunch more $$$ to buy another week rather than just converting to points.  

I wish it weren't such a hassle to sell the units, but with the current economy, I can only imagine it would be very difficult.  I tried to contact an eBay reseller about listing them for me at a low price and they turned me down flat out because they said these weeks simply don't sell well enough to make it worth their while.  

The thing is that my parents have three weeks in some sort of points system already (Festiva or something like that), so in principle I could ask them for some of their points if I really wanted to use a timeshare.  They are getting older and it's harder for them to use up their points each year.  So in some ways the wisest thing to do would not be to put more money into these units when I don't really need them to have access to the "timesharing" world.  On the other hand, just keeping them as fixed weeks isn't ridiculously expensive, and Williamsburg is not that far away to visit every spring. 

Hmm....


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 2, 2010)

Have you tried or do you have any interest in exchanging them through RCI?  I don't know about the Patriot's Place but your 2BR Kingsgate should be a decent trader.  I have wk 18 and have traded the 1BR and 2BR side of my Kingsgate lockoff for Hawaii on a pretty regular basis.


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## ausman (Jan 2, 2010)

JustAllie said:


> Wow, lots to consider.  What is the "RCI Nightly Stay" thing about?



The RCI Nightly Stay thing is a feature of Plus Partners, which is part of a developer purchase. Since you are doing a conversion I would assume the old rules apply and you would gain that. It essentially allows you to access the RCI points availability at 10 mths via a fixed conversion grid, WYN to RCI. Sometimes worth it sometimes not depending on points values, but it does give access to some resorts you would never see in a straight weeks to weeks exchange. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for this.

Looking at the points charts the Patriots Place unit should convert at 154K points and the Kingsgate unit at 126K for a total of 280K. The cost to do so should not be the $2,400 x 2 with discount, the second unit converted should be at a nominal charge.

Still it is money out of pocket and with the friend possibly taking one unit and the older parent situation I'd be inclined to forget Wyndham points and just use or exchange the remaining unit via one of the exchange companies not necessarily RCI.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 2, 2010)

I agree with Basham in his analysis in that 280,000 points w/o VIP status and paying out $3,000+ for the conversion is NOT worth it. If you friend wants the one unit, let them have it.  

Now, if your parents had owned Wyndham points and had brought from the developer, that would push you into a possible GOLD VIP ... different options as a transfer of ownership to you would make those all developer ones (not ebay resale points).


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## JustAllie (Jan 3, 2010)

vacationhopeful said:


> I agree with Basham in his analysis in that 280,000 points w/o VIP status and paying out $3,000+ for the conversion is NOT worth it. If you friend wants the one unit, let them have it.
> 
> Now, if your parents had owned Wyndham points and had brought from the developer, that would push you into a possible GOLD VIP ... different options as a transfer of ownership to you would make those all developer ones (not ebay resale points).



 

My parents did buy them from the developer (which was Fairfield back in the day) -- and they transfered them to me as a "gift" about seven years ago.  I paid only the fee required to transfer the deeds into my name.  Does that make a difference?  Or does that fact that they bought them as weeks and not points make that a moot issue?


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 3, 2010)

Transfer within the immediate family is not supposed to be treated like a resale and you should be entitled to VIP if you choose to convert.  With that being said, I have a 77k points contract given to me by my sister and it's been tagged as resale.  For me, it's not worth the hassle to try to get Wyndham to change it although at some point in the future it could make a difference so I need to invest the time to fix it.  ARGH . . . I am not looking forward to that experience.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 4, 2010)

JustAllie:
I was speaking IF there were ADDITIONAL family points which would bring you up over 300,000 or better 500,000 points in total if you did the conversion. Would have to look at the $$$$ cost and points/vacation benefits over the time period.

Timeshare Von:
Don't think I would try that with the onsite weasals. Title transfer department at corporate?  Are they in Vegas or Orlando?


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 4, 2010)

vacationhopeful said:


> Timeshare Von:
> Don't think I would try that with the onsite weasals. Title transfer department at corporate?  Are they in Vegas or Orlando?



Yep it was the onsite weasal in Hawaii that tipped me off to the "resale" coding of my UDI contract.  I mentioned it to someone at Wyndham owner services during a phone call I made on another matter in November, but they didn't seem too interested and I didn't have time to deal with it at the time.

I will have to call the title transfer people.


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## Jya-Ning (Jan 4, 2010)

JustAllie said:


> My parents did buy them from the developer (which was Fairfield back in the day) -- and they transfered them to me as a "gift" about seven years ago.  I paid only the fee required to transfer the deeds into my name.  Does that make a difference?  Or does that fact that they bought them as weeks and not points make that a moot issue?



No.  In your case, it makes no difference.

Does not matter what you do, after conversion, you are at the same stage as you buy resale.  So your only comparison is it is worth to pay to conversion vs buying resale by looking at how much it cost you to buy resale and get rid of your week.  

For your friend, it maybe a little different.  You may want to let him/her know, and they may prefer to transfer the deed to themselves first.

Your parents have other points from different system.  look like you will be the one that handle it.  I will including them as overall considerations.  If it is Festiva point, you may want to joint the Yahoo Equivest-PeppertreeOwners group) and read some of the recent posts there.  And if they can not afford in the long run, and you have not much interest to add more TS to your profolio, then you may want to talk to the developer to see if you can remove them.

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning (Jan 4, 2010)

Timeshare Von said:


> Transfer within the immediate family is not supposed to be treated like a resale and you should be entitled to VIP if you choose to convert.  With that being said, I have a 77k points contract given to me by my sister and it's been tagged as resale.  For me, it's not worth the hassle to try to get Wyndham to change it although at some point in the future it could make a difference so I need to invest the time to fix it.  ARGH . . . I am not looking forward to that experience.



You are dealing with sales people.  Any contract they can claim it is from resale, and claim it is flag.  They can claim your point is from Fairfield and no longer good.  That is what they do.

When you are ready, you can easily show the old owner is your sister if you want.

Jya-Ning


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks, not to hijack the thread, but I called Wyndham's deed/title department so hopefully it's taken care of now.


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