# My Retirement Checklist



## Talent312 (Mar 15, 2017)

My retirement date is 4/30 (DW already retired). Financially, we'll be fine, but the steps I've had to take to line it up and the pile of forms has been incredible. Retirement gurus focus on the money and rarely get into the nuts and bolts.

So, I made a little checklist, unique to my situation:

1. Get Health Insurance for Spouse. DW is losing my employee group coverage. It took a few months dealing with state-employment agencies, but I finally got the forms for delayed enrollment in Medicare Part B. She starts 5/1.  She also enrolled in a drug plan (Humana-Walmart). We'll visit the Medigap issue later.

2. Deal with Lump-Sum Payments. I set up a Rollover IRA to take my accumulated deferred retirement funds. I decided against letting the state invest them for me. That'd be like keeping a 401k with a former employer. I prefer a self-directed IRA.

3. Pay-Off Home Mortgage. It might have been smarter to keep it with only 3.125% interest, but the extra cash-flow is a nice cushion to have.

4. Notify State Retirement Agency. Like an HR dept, but for the entire state workforce. Gave them my term date and requested forms to start my pension and direct the lump-sum payment (to TD Ameritrade).

5. Visit My HR office. Submitted my resignation and had them validate the state retirement forms, which were in turn, submitted to the state retirement agency.

6. Contact TD Ameritrade.  Needed them to sign off on the rollover payment form.

7. Check into My Retirement Health Plan. Too young for Medicare, I could go on Obama-Care (for now) or private, but instead I plan to stay on the state's employee/retiree plan. My premium goes from $30 (employee) to ~$550/month (retiree). They said we're covered thru May by my April paycheck. So, I don't need to switch until 6/1.

8. File for Social Security. The customary advice is to wait. But I calculated that it would take so long for the higher benefit to outweigh the payments I'd miss in the meantime, that it's not worth it to me.

9. Still to Do:  Pick a Medigap Policy for DW (she wants Plan F), submit my health insurance forms and file tax-withholding forms for my pension & social security.

-------------------------
_I said: "Maybe I should'a kept working." My colleague: "No."

====================_
[Edited to Make It More Generic.]


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## WinniWoman (Mar 15, 2017)

Good start. I bet you will be adding to this list as time goes by. My husband is about 3 years away from retirement. I am 5- ugh. When I think of all the practicals and the logistics involved I get overwhelmed. On top of the fact that we will want to sell our home and move out of state with virtually no help- just the two of us. The mail, changing banks. updating our address and phone numbers and getting new doctors and, well- I could go on and on- holy cow- I hate working but this doesn't sound like much fun either. LOL!

I am still trying to find a fee only financial planner to assist us and can't find one within a reasonable driving distance- up to one hour. And I keep procrastinating with updating the estate planning because of minimal time and energy available to handle it while we are working.

Like they say, the devil is in the details.


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## x3 skier (Mar 15, 2017)

Retired 20 years ago. Only item on my checklist (besides the Govt paperwork) was throw away / donate all my ties and suits except one for special occasions (and that expired 10 years ago).

Cheers


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## Sugarcubesea (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm about 12 years away from retirement and that just seems so so long from now... I hope I make it, as I'm dead tired now...LOL


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## Talent312 (Mar 16, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm about 12 years away from retirement and that just seems so so long from now...



That is a long-time to wait, but you'll make it...
The trick, I think, is to plan on how to make it happen and adjust as needed.
Just keep your eyes on the prize, and the time will pass quickly.

--------------------
I just remembered to add that we paid off our mortgage.
Didn't need to, actually, but the extra cushion in our cash-flow is nice.

.


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## VacationForever (Mar 16, 2017)

One more thing... depending on your income level - if it was high prior to your retirement, your spouse's Medicare Part B may get a reprieve by applying for a reduction due to your retirement.  My husband was paying the max bracket until our retirement last year.  This year's Medicare Part B + D premium (from Medicare) was $504.80 (428.60+76.20), because Medicare uses 2015 income to calculate 2017 premiums.  Since we stopped working, our income for this year is close to zero.  We put in an application a month ago to show the lack of income.  We just received a letter dropping my husband's Medicare Part B to $134 (with no D premium).  Makes us pretty happy.


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## tompalm (Mar 16, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> My retirement date is 4/30 (DW already retired). Financially, we'll be fine, but the steps I've had to take to line it up and the pile of forms has been incredible. Retirement gurus focus on the money and rarely get into the nuts and bolts.
> 
> So, I made a little checklist, unique to my situation:
> 
> ...



You are an overachiever and will get bored with retirement. I hope you find a part time job or some volunteer work. One day the airline I worked for shut down and I was out of work at the age of 54. I looked around at starting a new career, but it wasn't easy, so I retired without any planning. I found there is plenty of time to do all those things you already did while being retired. I think you should add a few things on your to do list like, golf on Wednesday, Movies on Tuesdays, cards on Saturdays, etc.... Congrats and have fun.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 16, 2017)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm about 12 years away from retirement and that just seems so so long from now... I hope I make it, as I'm dead tired now...LOL




Me, too. I don't see me lasting for another 5 years. Now in my early 60's I am really feeling I need to move on in my life and I am losing patience with work getting in the way. I am feeling a real loss of time and life energy now. Work takes up too much of a huge chunk of each day. 5 days of just work and sleep and work and sleep. Weekends playing catch up for errands and chores and other responsibilities and then start all over again on Monday. It has all gotten so old. If it wasn't for the need for health insurance and Social Security I would be retired by now for sure.

Sigh......


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## Talent312 (Mar 16, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> One more thing... depending on your income level - if it was high prior to your retirement, your spouse's Medicare Part B may get a reprieve by applying for a reduction due to your retirement...



Good to know. We expect an enrollment letter from Medicare any day now.
Her being on my health policy shielded us from this part for ~ 5 years.

I've got a lengthy list of deferred-maintenance projects to work on at the house.
It goes from changing light-bulbs to remodelling the kitchen, but 1st, we'll travel.

.


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## Sugarcubesea (Mar 16, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> That is a long-time to wait, but you'll make it...
> The trick, I think, is to plan what you need to get there and adjust as needed.
> You just need to keep your eyes on the prize, and the time will pass quickly.
> 
> ...



I've been planning and adjusting like crazy and yes its a very long time to go... The company I worked for for the bulk of my years, went bankrupt and my pension went to the pension board and they will only pay me out 10% of what I was entitled to.  But this little mess happening, this added a few years on to my working career.  I'm trying to save the max each year and I already max out my H.S.A. account...


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## rapmarks (Mar 16, 2017)

This made me recall the year before we retired,  the state came up with a new multiplier for retirement but it would cost us thirty thousand dollars.  In five years we would have received enough extra to break even.  Paying out of our paychecks saved taxes , so we paid off the mortgage, and for a six month period made 1970 take home pay deducting five thousand a month from our paycheck. we called it practice for living on retirement income.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## klpca (Mar 16, 2017)

I like seeing your checklist. According to my husband, we have 8 years to go (we'll see, lol). 2016 was not the best year for us. My husband's company closed their CA office and offered to move everyone to a different location out of state. Although it was tempting, he took his severance and looked for another job. During this time, he was also battling stage 3 cancer. Not knowing how long he would be unemployed, we took drastic measures with our budget (I even sold 3 timeshares  ). He ultimately found another job and his cancer is in remission - hopefully cured - but we are still living on the lower budget in preparation for retirement.


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## bogey21 (Mar 16, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> 9. Still to Do:  Pick a Medigap Policy for DW (she wants Plan F), submit my health insurance forms and file tax-withholding forms for my pension & social securit_y._



If DW is healthy, consider a High Deductible Plan F.  When I did this at age 80 the difference between Regular Plan F and the High Deductible was almost $300 per month (a little South of $3,600 per year).  My deductible is something like $1,850.  Note that many companies don't offer the High Deductible.  I got it with Bankers Life.

George


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## capjak (Mar 16, 2017)

I also recommend this forum and checklist:
http://www.early-retirement.org/for...-answer-before-asking-can-i-retire-69999.html


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## sts1732 (Mar 16, 2017)

35 yrs. of machining, retired 3yrs.ago, tried the part time job, wife retires next yr, kids are grown. Gonna start using more points, and using the "for rent" section on TUG and borrow from kids inheritance(their idea) and get to know my wife again.


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## Passepartout (Mar 16, 2017)

Jeez, Talent, you mean we're gonna have to put up with even MORE of you on TUG? Take more cruises. The $.75/minute internet will give us some peace and quiet. (Kidding). Congrats, and welcome to the voluntarily unemployed.

Jim


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## ronparise (Mar 16, 2017)

I avoided most of that stuff, or better stated I avoided doing it all at once. I havent retired and don't intend to. I gave up suits and ties 20 years ago but still work every day. Thank god for the Internet machine. Some days I don't even put on pants


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## ronparise (Mar 16, 2017)

bogey21 said:


> If DW is healthy, consider a High Deductible Plan F.  When I did this at age 80 the difference between Regular Plan F and the High Deductible was almost $300 per month (a little South of $3,600 per year).  My deductible is something like $1,850.  Note that many companies don't offer the High Deductible.  I got it with Bankers Life.
> 
> George



I do the high deductible too. And switched from bankers to save even more


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## VacationForever (Mar 16, 2017)

ronparise said:


> Thank god for the Internet machine. Some days I don't even put on pants


Make sure that Webcam is turned off...


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 16, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Make sure that Webcam is turned off...



My cheap laptop has no webcam .... and I dress in clean clothes.


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## dsmrp (Mar 16, 2017)

tompalm said:


> You are an overachiever and will get bored with retirement. I hope you find a part time job or some volunteer work. One day the airline I worked for shut down and I was out of work at the age of 54. I looked around at starting a new career, but it wasn't easy, so I retired without any planning. I found there is plenty of time to do all those things you already did while being retired. I think you should add a few things on your to do list like, golf on Wednesday, Movies on Tuesdays, cards on Saturdays, etc.... Congrats and have fun.



Congrats Talent!  When I look at your list, prepping for retirement is a project.  I'm still in the workday rut, and hope I'll not get stuck in the inertia of working another month or two just cause I haven't gotten all my ducks in a row LOL.
Unfortunately I have to work at least 6 more years in order to qualify for my state employee retirement health plan, that is, if I still have a job by then  .  And who knows what Medicare will be like by then too 

I think what TomPalm is referring to is Parkinson's law. My paraphrasing is "work expands to fill the time available"


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## Born2Travel (Mar 16, 2017)

Yes, it is a project!  I think the idea of having to face that checklist kept me working longer than I would have if it was easy to retire.  Finally did it about 5 years ago and haven't regretted it for a minute.  You'll be surprised how your time fills up!!


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## Talent312 (Mar 16, 2017)

bogey21 said:


> If DW is healthy, consider a High Deductible Plan F.  When I did this at age 80 the difference between Regular Plan F and the High Deductible was almost $300 per month...



The net savings on that is impressive.
The low bidder for Plan F for her is BCBS-Florida at ~$210/month.
So far, the lowest High-F premium I can find seems to be ~$85/month.
That's a significant difference, but the deductible exceeds the savings.

.


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## amycurl (Mar 16, 2017)

Aww, retirement, how cute! As a Gen Xer, I truly doubt that anyone in my generation and below will ever really be able to retire.....maybe if they worked for a public entity, but even then, it's pretty iffy....


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## John Cummings (Mar 16, 2017)

I retired over 10 years ago. I have had a financial planner from long before I retired. He is fee only and is also a good friend. I have known him, his brother, and father for several years. He is an independent. I have no financial problems at all. That part runs very smoothly and has for the last 10 years. I did take a hit in 2009. My financial planner also does our taxes for free. He charges very little to manage our investments. We talk on the phone at least once a week. I am pretty knowledgeable about investments. The big advantage he has given me is his knowledge and access to financial products that I am not aware of.

The biggest job I had when I retired was consolidating all my IRAs, SEPs, etc. I had many. Other than that the only planning we did was deciding where we wanted to live. We have lived in California, Oregon, Washington, SE Florida, Arizona, California ( both North and South ), Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. We have also spent a lot of time in Nevada ( North and South ), Texas, Tennessee, New York, and the mid-west. It didn't take us long to narrow it down to California. Our second choice was Arizona around Phoenix. We are very happy here so we definitely made the right choice.

I took my SS at full retirement age and my wife took spousal SS at 63. She has always been a homemaker and a very good one. We have been married for 52+ years.


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## Talent312 (Mar 16, 2017)

amycurl said:


> I truly doubt that anyone in my generation and below will ever really be able to retire...



That's 'cuz baby-boomers (my gen) are soaking up all the deposits your gen is making into the system.
So, when we die off, there'll be nothing left. Too bad, so sad. 
But you'll have the last laugh, 'cuz you'll you'll still be ambulatory. 

Actually, I'm fairly confident that before disaster strikes, they'll make adjustments, like increasing payroll taxes. Also, if you manage to save for retirement, you'll likely end up better off than my gen which has a spotty record on that.
.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

John Cummings said:


> I retired over 10 years ago. I have had a financial planner from long before I retired. He is fee only and is also a good friend. I have known him, his brother, and father for several years. He is an independent. I have no financial problems at all. That part runs very smoothly and has for the last 10 years. I did take a hit in 2009. My financial planner also does our taxes for free. He charges very little to manage our investments. We talk on the phone at least once a week. I am pretty knowledgeable about investments. The big advantage he has given me is his knowledge and access to financial products that I am not aware of.
> 
> The biggest job I had when I retired was consolidating all my IRAs, SEPs, etc. I had many. Other than that the only planning we did was deciding where we wanted to live. We have lived in California, Oregon, Washington, SE Florida, Arizona, California ( both North and South ), Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. We have also spent a lot of time in Nevada ( North and South ), Texas, Tennessee, New York, and the mid-west. It didn't take us long to narrow it down to California. Our second choice was Arizona around Phoenix. We are very happy here so we definitely made the right choice.
> 
> I took my SS at full retirement age and my wife took spousal SS at 63. She has always been a homemaker and a very good one. We have been married for 52+ years.




Does your financial planning guy know of a fee-based only financial planner in New York? Hudson Valley area? I really need someone....can't find one that is fee based only. The ones I find are all brokers who want to sell investments and annuities. I need someone to look over our entire financial situation and give advice on things like when to take SS, when can we retire, how much we will be able to draw down to meet expenses, etc.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

amycurl said:


> Aww, retirement, how cute! As a Gen Xer, I truly doubt that anyone in my generation and below will ever really be able to retire.....maybe if they worked for a public entity, but even then, it's pretty iffy....




If you do not have a pension, which mostly only government and union workers have, with a few exceptions in the private sector, it is very hard to retire before SS kicks in these days, unless you make a ton of money or inherit or win some money. We are in that situation and we are at the bottom end of the baby boomer generation.

The only thing you can do is save and invest as much as you possibly can. And try to make as much money as you can. But do not do so at the expense of enjoying your life while you are younger. Balance it out because life goes fast and in this new era you cannot wait to do things until retirement because it is so far off and there is a good possibility you will be so much older. 

Not like the retirement ads you see with the man with the full head of silver hair and his lovely wife on their boat, or playing golf and having dinner and drinks with friends. Endless days of vacation/resort type activities. The people in those ads mainly represent people in their 50's. That is not the majority of us.


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## artringwald (Mar 17, 2017)

When I talk to anyone considering retirement, I ask them "what's your plan?". "How are you going to spend your time?". I retired 9 years ago, and I still have some items left on my list. I think it helps to retire in the spring. There's so much more to do when the weather is good. I kept in touch with friends that were still working, but I was a bad influence. Most of them also retired early. Now we ride bicycles every Monday when the weather is good, usually to a destination with adult beverages. When the weather is bad, one thing I've enjoyed doing is taking the free online courses from Coursera and EdX. They both offer wide variety of subjects taught by university professors, and the best part is you don't have to do the homework if you don't want to, and you can drop out at any time. 

I got a generous pension, so I'm waiting until 70 to take SS. That 8% increase/year for waiting helps me worry less about running out of money if either of us should live past 90.


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## artringwald (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Does your financial planning guy know of a fee-based only financial planner in New York? Hudson Valley area? I really need someone....can't find one that is fee based only. The ones I find are all brokers who want to sell investments and annuities. I need someone to look over our entire financial situation and give advice on things like when to take SS, when can we retire, how much we will be able to draw down to meet expenses, etc.


National Association of Personal Financial Advisors (NAPFA) is an organization of fee only financial advisers. You can find one in your area using this web site:

http://www.napfa.org/


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

artringwald said:


> National Association of Personal Financial Advisors (NAPFA) is an organization of fee only financial advisers. You can find one in your area using this web site:
> 
> http://www.napfa.org/



Yes. I tried that. None here or even remotely close. Thanks, though.


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## GrayFal (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Yes. I tried that. None here or even remotely close. Thanks, though.


I just put your town name in the search engine and there are three within 30 miles, 8 more within 40 miles and 18 more within 50 miles.

"There are 52 advisors in 31 firms within 50 miles"


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## bogey21 (Mar 17, 2017)

amycurl said:


> As a Gen Xer, I truly doubt that anyone in my generation and below will ever really be able to retire.....maybe if they worked for a public entity, but even then, it's pretty iffy....



Agree with this.  My Daughter is OK.  She is married to a Doctor.  My two Sons, ages 38 and 46 not only have no Retirement Accounts but are loaded with debt.  I see many of their friends in the same boat.

George


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

GrayFal said:


> I just put your town name in the search engine and there are three within 30 miles, 8 more within 40 miles and 18 more within 50 miles.
> 
> "There are 52 advisors in 31 firms within 50 miles"



Thanks. I will check this again. This was the site I went on. Most of the places are a couple of counties south, so I tried ones that were closer. On that site, turned out one guy really didn't have an office here- he was in Maryland and would visit his daughter occasionally 2 counties down. The other person I called didn't have a direct line and always had to call me back from somewhere else- maybe another job she had- don't know. And the third person I called didn't call me back for over a week and when they did he/she sounded a bit sketchy so I passed.

I suppose I should try a few more of these but I got turned off.

Hopefully I will find someone soon.


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## GrayFal (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. I will check this again. This was the site I went on. Most of the places are a couple of counties south, so I tried ones that were closer. On that site, turned out one guy really didn't have an office here- he was in Maryland and would visit his daughter occasionally 2 counties down. The other person I called didn't have a direct line and always had to call me back from somewhere else- maybe another job she had- don't know. And the third person I called didn't call me back for over a week and when they did he/she sounded a bit sketchy so I passed.
> 
> I suppose I should try a few more of these but I got turned off.
> 
> Hopefully I will find someone soon.


If you can drive 250+ miles to Smuggs, you CAN do this.  Don't get discouraged; maybe you can get out of your current situation sooner with the right advisor.


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## artringwald (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. I will check this again. This was the site I went on. Most of the places are a couple of counties south, so I tried ones that were closer. On that site, turned out one guy really didn't have an office here- he was in Maryland and would visit his daughter occasionally 2 counties down. The other person I called didn't have a direct line and always had to call me back from somewhere else- maybe another job she had- don't know. And the third person I called didn't call me back for over a week and when they did he/she sounded a bit sketchy so I passed.
> 
> I suppose I should try a few more of these but I got turned off.
> 
> Hopefully I will find someone soon.


They don't have to be local. I live in MN and used a CFP in Georgia because my niece recommended her. They had a secure web folder that I could drop and retrieve documents.


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## MULTIZ321 (Mar 17, 2017)

artringwald said:


> They don't have to be local. I live in MN and used a CFP in Georgia because my niece recommended her. They had a secure web folder that I could drop and retrieve documents.


Also, there is the possibility of doing secure Video Calls and/or secure Conference Calls with the Advisor.  Agree with Artringwald - the advisor does not need to be local.

Time to expand your horizons.

Good luck.

Richard


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## cgeidl (Mar 17, 2017)

The CFP designation is important for financial planning  as it demonstrates a rigorous educational background. You realize there are those calling themselves financial planners who are annuity and insurance salesmen is disguise. Although a miniscule few may actually be planners it is a small minority. In my opinion as stated by another person close distance is not an essential prerequisite for obtaining the best planner for you.As you seem quite knowledgeable I assume you know your retirement goals. You can make up your own net asset picture. The most important job of the planner is to assist you in planning to meet your retirement goals within your risk tolerance. In simplest terms the process is just like planning for a trip. Where are you? Where do you want to go? The third question of how do you get there requires some real expertise. That's where the planner comes into the picture.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

cgeidl said:


> The CFP designation is important for financial planning  as it demonstrates a rigorous educational background. You realize there are those calling themselves financial planners who are annuity and insurance salesmen is disguise. Although a miniscule few may actually be planners it is a small minority. In my opinion as stated by another person close distance is not an essential prerequisite for obtaining the best planner for you.As you seem quite knowledgeable I assume you know your retirement goals. You can make up your own net asset picture. The most important job of the planner is to assist you in planning to meet your retirement goals within your risk tolerance. In simplest terms the process is just like planning for a trip. Where are you? Where do you want to go? The third question of how do you get there requires some real expertise. That's where the planner comes into the picture.




Yes. I know. I essentially need someone to advise us as to when we can retire based on what we have and how to handle taking SS and Medicare and how to handle withdrawals, and take into consideration that we will be attempting to sell our home and move out of state. Stuff like that. I have used the online calculators and all that but they only go so far. I need someone who is holistic. I am not interested in buying an annuity or sales loaded funds from anyone. We have our own accounts that we are fine with and we utilize our mutual fund company's free advisor. They can certainly make suggestions as to what we should do with allocating the investments, but I would still handle that part. I use a spread sheet to keep track of things. But I couldn't tell you what our whole portfolio yields as a whole. I have limits on what I understand.

I like planning for a trip much better.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

I did just now put in a request for information from another company on the list that is not too far from us. Will see if I get a response. I will try more as well- maybe the ones in Westchester County.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

The planner I sent a request to this morning already  responded back via email and we have an introductory phone call scheduled for this upcoming Wed. From his website he seems like exactly you what I have been looking for! Even uses the word holistic on the web site! He does not sell any investment or insurance products! Wow! Hope he is affordable. I will, of course, have to get references from him but this could be the one! And- he is located just 45 minutes from my home and in a town that I work in st least 2 half days per week! Plus my husband drives by the town exit on his commute home every day, so would be convenient for us!

He was not listed on the napfa website last Fall when I started this process.

Thanks for pushing me not to get discouraged!


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## elaine (Mar 17, 2017)

I don't know if a CFP will help that much with timing, Medicaire, SS, etc. I think they are more about the planning aspect of financial investments, such as what your portfolio looks like, investment choices to consider based upon tax concerns, explain risk tolerance vs. lower yields, etc. Most of what you want with the other stuff can be done with self-tutorials. The most basic item to start with is to have a budget for retirement of at least your minimum fixed expenses to determine when you can retire. How much you can take out is not an easy calculation, as it involves guessing longevity and annual rate of return.
Rate of return for stocks tends to be higher, but rockier and you need to be able to let a bulk of funds sit untouched in a downturn, as pulling out even 4% in a down market means selling low and it is tough to impossible to recover--such as in 2008. Not many retirees have that ability. But, putting in safer investments typically yields lower returns, which can make your $ run out sooner. No easy fix.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

Here's the downside I just discovered upon doing more research- He is only in this business since Sept. which is why he wasn't listed when I first searched last year. He seems to only have 4 or so  years experience prior to this. (he was in the military) he has an MBA also and worked for USAA. I have to check into his background more.

There's always a catch.....


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2017)

elaine said:


> I don't know if a CFP will help that much with timing, Medicaire, SS, etc. I think they are more about the planning aspect of financial investments, such as what your portfolio looks like, investment choices to consider based upon tax concerns, explain risk tolerance vs. lower yields, etc. Most of what you want with the other stuff can be done with self-tutorials. The most basic item to start with is to have a budget for retirement of at least your minimum fixed expenses to determine when you can retire. How much you can take out is not an easy calculation, as it involves guessing longevity and annual rate of return.
> Rate of return for stocks tends to be higher, but rockier and you need to be able to let a bulk of funds sit untouched in a downturn, as pulling out even 4% in a down market means selling low and it is tough to impossible to recover--such as in 2008. Not many retirees have that ability. But, putting in safer investments typically yields lower returns, which can make your $ run out sooner. No easy fix.




I know what you mean. My issue is I have no clue how long our money could last. We have a budget now so I have a close idea of how a retirement budget would be. But not sure of anything else. lol!


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## Talent312 (Mar 17, 2017)

I just ran some numbers and with 4 months of wages, accrued leave payout, pension payments, and 2 sets of SS benefits, we'll have a bit more in taxable income this year than we did last year. It looks like I'll need to set withholding at 15%, but I expected that.


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## DancingWaters (Mar 17, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> I just ran some numbers and with 4 months of wages, accrued leave payout, pension payments, and 2 sets of SS benefits, we'll have a bit more in taxable income this year than we did last year. It looks like I'll need to set withholding at 15%, but I expected that.




I retired this school year and my dh is retiring in two weeks.  We were unhappy with our current financial advisor so we talked to three new ones. One of our big questions was whether to take the full amount of pension and buy life insurance, or to leave spouse part of the pension getting a reduced amount for life.   We both had that option with our pension.   What have you folks chose in that situation?  We also plan to wait 4 years to draw on dh social security sine it would give him a $600 increase....thoughts?


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 17, 2017)

My Social Security monthly increase for waiting is almost $500 per month. 

I am still actively doing my own house and apt rentals ... and looking at selling these places. My gypsy lifestyle which is in "month 5" now of "live 24 months in former rental A, sell as principal residence".  Repeat several times. Plus, selling some other rental properties and hold mortgages.


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## rapmarks (Mar 17, 2017)

Dancing waters, I don't know where you reside, but we are sure glad we took monthly pension checks from our teacher retirement system.  It is hard for us to believe but we will be retired 18'years in June. (We don't get social security)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Talent312 (Mar 17, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> One of our big questions was whether to take the full amount of pension and buy life insurance, or to leave spouse part of the pension getting a reduced amount for life.



I had 4 options and it wasn't an easy choice: 1. full pension for life, 2. pension for life + 10 years for spouse, 3. pension for both our lives, and 4. pension for life + 2/3 pension for spouse -- each with a different payout factor. Mon Dieu!

Although the reduction in payments was nothing to sneeze at, we ultimately, we went with #3... who knows how long either of us will live.  I could die next week and my spouse live another 20. So we felt the joint "annuity" was the safer bet.

For the same reason, I'm taking SS now, while I can still enjoy the fruits of my labor.


.


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## amycurl (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Here's the downside I just discovered upon doing more research- He is only in this business since Sept. which is why he wasn't listed when I first searched last year. He seems to only have 4 or so  years experience prior to this. (he was in the military) he has an MBA also and worked for USAA. I have to check into his background more.
> 
> There's always a catch.....


I think having an MBA and working for USAA (one of the most stand-up companies out there) probably speaks well for him. Also, being a CFP requires ethical standards. My m-i-l is a CFP; we are actually poster children for the whole "if you save for retirement between 25-35, you'll do better than someone who starts saving at 45" compound-interest/math thing. 

More Gen Xers believe in UFOs than believe that Social Security will exist when we hit our 60s. I, personally, don't count on it. And we're a super-tiny generation. I can't imagine what will happen with Millennials, since there are just so. darned. many. of. you.


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## Born2Travel (Mar 17, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Here's the downside I just discovered upon doing more research- He is only in this business since Sept. which is why he wasn't listed when I first searched last year. He seems to only have 4 or so  years experience prior to this. (he was in the military) he has an MBA also and worked for USAA. I have to check into his background more.
> 
> There's always a catch.....



Don't be discouraged yet.  At least talk to him and give him a chance.  We've been with our current CFP for many years now, and we are happy with results and trust him, but the first time I met with him, almost the first words out of his mouth were "I think you should know I'm 25 years old" - that kind of surprised me, and made me think about it, but I always just say to him "is this what you'd advise your mother to do?"  He now has the experience he didn't have at that time.


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## VacationForever (Mar 18, 2017)

I believe for all retirement planning, it must start with realistic anticipated expenses for both and for one.  If you can get your reliable income stream as close to expenses as possible, then you can afford to be retired.  I used this rule for years in our retirement planning and finally decided to retire last year.  Our issue has been the gap between retirement and when the reliable income streams start.  We sold our business last year and plan to use all of it, drawing on varying amount each year, depending on when each income stream starts.

SS income, pension and annuities count as reliable income stream.  I turned my IRA into future income annuities to increase the pool of reliable income stream as neither of us has a pension.  My husband's IRA will provide the variable income through RMD withdrawals.  Even if his RMD fluctuates greatly due to the market, we figure we can cut down expenses if we need to in those years.  So 2 SS, 1 annuity and 1 RMD will
make up our retirement income to meet expenses. 

We also looked into the scenario when one dies first as to how the income will be reduced and balaneed that with reduced expense needs.

We have separate savings/investments that we plan not to tap into, if at all possible, as our emergency funds.


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## Talent312 (Mar 18, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> I believe for all retirement planning, it must start with realistic anticipated expenses for both and for one.  If you can get your reliable income stream as close to expenses as possible, then you can afford to be retired.



Forecasting cash-flow is important, but if you have a decent nest-egg, you can, in effect, provide your own annuity (w/o commissions & fees). Luckily, our income stream will be enuff that we won't need to tap into our nest-egg for everyday expenses.

As I said, it's not only the $$, it's the nuts+bolts that can be daunting.
_Including: _Collecting phone numbers, addresses & websites, as needed for...

Fixed Income Sources:
(1) Social Security, (2) Pension Provider, and Annuity (if you want).

Lump-Sum Transferees:
(1) Rollover IRA (retirement $$) and (2) Savings/Money Mkt (final comp $$).

Spouse's Health Insurance:
(1) Medicare, (2) Drug Policy and (3)Medigap.

Your Health Insurance:
(1) Retiree Policy, (2) Medicare or (3) Other.

--------------------
_I think that covers the waterfront for most folks.
_
.


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## cgeidl (Mar 18, 2017)

Agree with Elaine's CFP description although some CFP'S specialize in the elderly and may have the right background and possibly when you meet with your CFP by telephone you can ask whether he is an expert in social security and if not if he knows who does.. You will not likely get accurate responses from talking to social security personnel. Paying a few dollars for a real expert is the key to making the best decision. We started taking at 62 and investing the money and with the stock increases I feel we were better off than waiting.I met with social security personnel before retiring and was told I would get a monthly amount of about $1200 but only got a bit more than $600 even though I had 35 years in the system. Got caught under the Windfall Provision Act. Luckily we really can get along fine without it.
You seem financially astute and should greatly benefit from a solid CFP.



elaine said:


> I don't know if a CFP will help that much with timing, Medicaire, SS, etc. I think they are more about the planning aspect of financial investments, such as what your portfolio looks like, investment choices to consider based upon tax concerns, explain risk tolerance vs. lower yields, etc.


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## BJRSanDiego (Mar 18, 2017)

artringwald said:


> When I talk to anyone considering retirement, I ask them "what's your plan?". "How are you going to spend your time?". I retired 9 years ago, and I still have some items left on my list. I think it helps to retire in the spring. ...



I agree with Art regarding the benefit of having a personal activity plan.  

When I retired (coincidentally, about the same time as Art), I also coincidentally, had a 3 page typewritten list of things that I might be interested in doing in retirement.  It has been years since I last located this list, but I think that I am still on page 1.  

I have heard from both "camps" - - people who love to be retired and those that are miserable.  The ones who love to be retired keep active physically, and mentally.  The miserable ones don't seem to have any particular interests and just sit and watch TV.  

For my mental activity I subscribe and contribute to several blogs on hobby or travel related topics.  I have written a handful of articles on timesharing for an owner group from one of my timeshares.  I also LOVE tough Sudoku puzzles.  I have taken a few on-line courses in science topics.  I also keep abreast of the news (outside of the mainstream news organizations such as CBS/NBC/ABC,CNN) 

On a person's retirement activity list, it is important to have some goals for physical activities and physical health.  Keeping active and keeping one's weight down or under control is important.  I do a fair amount of hiking.  I used to swim laps until I injured a shoulder while horseback riding (it wasn't the riding that caused the problem but the sudden deceleration when I hit the ground  ).  But swimming is being put back on my list.

So, financial planning is important but hopefully isn't something that you are just starting at retirement.  It should be basically a continuation of a lifetime of financial planning.  But having a PLAN for what you want to do for enjoyment, enrichment and self-actualization is also VERY important.  When I put my plan together my wife and I compared our plans.  It was a fun exercise.


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## Talent312 (Mar 18, 2017)

I's say that an activity plan or at least, staying active, is important...
Year 1 -- Party! Travel planned for nearly every month left in year.
Year 2 -- Two cruises and a list of deferred maintenance.
Year 3 -- Serious home remodelling projects.
Year 4+ -- Hobbies (landscaping & gardening) & more travel.
_Also, we have a HOA-neighborhood pool half a block away.

.

_


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## John Cummings (Mar 18, 2017)

I have been happily retired for going on 11 years now. I never made any plans nor intend to about what I am going to do. My wife and I do whatever we feel like doing on the spur of the moment. Both of us abhor schedules or having to be someplace or do something at a certain time.

I was also very happy when I was working because I loved my work. However it interfered with seeing the grandkids so I had to make a choice. My wife has always been a homemaker so she never retires.

Actually I was going to retire when the high tech crash started in 2001 but I actually continued to work another 5 years as I got some fantastic projects with different clients from 2001-2006. It is nice working when you are financially independent and don't have to work. We sold our homes in the SF Bay area and San Diego in 2002 and we bought our new home here preparing for retirement.

The most planning I did was deciding where we wanted to live when I retired. That was very important to us.

I didn't have to do much financial planning other than to make money. We had a financial planner ( CFP and Enrolled Tax Agent ) for several years prior to retiring and we still have him.

I think people need to really plan for where they want to live. I learned what not to do based on my parents retirement. Our first criteria is it had to be someplace where we can live comfortably all year long. That means not cold, not brutally hot and definitely not humid. That was a major factor on picking California. Living in 2 places was out. That seems great when you are younger but as you get older it becomes harder to keep moving every 6 months or so. My parents did that and it was fine when they first retired but 15 years later it wasn't very good. We also wanted to be near good medical facilities and have lots of different things to do close by.

In any event that is our take on retirement.


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## x3 skier (Mar 18, 2017)

Three days after I retired, I was in Steamboat Springs, I had a place to live, a season skiing pass and was on the mountain. Been going back every ski season for 20 years now.

Building an airplane to fly myself which I plan to complete next year.

Life can be good if you let it.

Cheers


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## bogey21 (Mar 18, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> One of our big questions was whether to take the full amount of pension and buy life insurance, or to leave spouse part of the pension getting a reduced amount for life.....What have you folks chose in that situation?



I set it up so my ex-wife will get 50% of my pension payment when I die (I'm 20 years older than her).  This is a larger amount than the fixed amount she currently gets which she has to give up upon my death.  Her lawyer pushed for the life insurance and I refused.  I want her to have money for life and know if she ever got a lump sum, she would blow through it in a couple of years.

George


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## DancingWaters (Mar 18, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> My Social Security monthly increase for waiting is almost $500 per month.
> 
> I am still actively doing my own house and apt rentals ... and looking at selling these places. My gypsy lifestyle which is in "month 5" now of "live 24 months in former rental A, sell as principal residence".  Repeat several times. Plus, selling some other rental properties and hold mortgages.





Talent312 said:


> I had 4 options and it wasn't an easy choice: 1. full pension for life, 2. pension for life + 10 years for spouse, 3. pension for both our lives, and 4. pension for life + 2/3 pension for spouse -- each with a different payout factor. Mon Dieu!
> 
> Although the reduction in payments was nothing to sneeze at, we ultimately, we went with #3... who knows how long either of us will live.  I could die next week and my spouse live another 20. So we felt the joint "annuity" was the safer bet.
> 
> ...



We have thought about drawing SS now but want to see if we can financially wait. I ended up giving DH my full pension if I pass and he gave me on his pension 50% plus I will get part of his SS since all my pension is through teachers pension and I personally don't get my own SS.   Do you or rap mark also carry life insurance?    We have 6 rentals and if something happens to DH I personally can't maintain. So I worried what would I do.


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## Talent312 (Mar 18, 2017)

We're foregoing major life insurance policies, as our surviving-spouse incomes will be sufficient to meet expenses, and retirement savings will serve as our rainy-day funds. We each have a small policy, just enuff to cover funeral expenses.
.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 19, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> < snip>    We have 6 rentals and if something happens to DH I personally can't maintain. So I worried what would I do.



Maintaining a rental property PHYSICALLY in not much different than taking care of your personal single family home. Need a roofer; hire the roofer ... home or rental. Furnace or a/c not working; call the HVAC contractor. Snow removal? You do your home; tenant should do theirs as well as mowing the grass.

If you are seriously worried about it, TALK now to your DH and either start with a plan to downsize your position in rentals OR LEARN how to run the properties.

I have multi-family buildings (three 4-11 unit rentals) and 10 singles/duplexes. Plus a "maintenance" guy who is 6 years younger than me and been working with me for almost 20 years ... full time.

And we keep updating the units ... this month we tore out a bathroom, alternating some walls & door openings, added a pocket door to replace the bath entrance and will replace all the floor in the unit.

I am single ... and very close to a normal retirement age.


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## rapmarks (Mar 19, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> We have thought about drawing SS now but want to see if we can financially wait. I ended up giving DH my full pension if I pass and he gave me on his pension 50% plus I will get part of his SS since all my pension is through teachers pension and I personally don't get my own SS.   Do you or rap mark also carry life insurance?    We have 6 rentals and if something happens to DH I personally can't maintain. So I worried what would I do.



I was told by social security that the spouse won't get any social security because we have the pension from Illinois.  A teacher that I know was told she would get half of husbands ss.   So I don't know which is true.  
As for insurance, all I have is a two thousand dollar policy started over fifty years ago. 
We have one rental property, new last fall, and discovered the loss is not deductible if income over a certain threshold. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## John Cummings (Mar 19, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> I was told by social security that the spouse won't get any social security because we have the pension from Illinois.  A teacher that I know was told she would get half of husbands ss.   So I don't know which is true.
> As for insurance, all I have is a two thousand dollar policy started over fifty years ago.
> We have one rental property, new last fall, and discovered the loss is not deductible if income over a certain threshold.
> 
> ...



Why not contact Social Security and ask them? If you qualify for spousal Social Security you will get 50% of his if you  are at full retirement age. One thing that some people don't know is if you receive spousal Social Security and your spouse dies, you then receive 100% of your spouse's.


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## rapmarks (Mar 19, 2017)

I did ask social security, and they told me my spouse would not get 50% of my benefit and he would get nothing if I died because he was getting a teacher pension.   I am not upset because I get less than $60 a month.   but another teacher claims they told her she would get half of her husbands social if he died, direct opposite of what they told me , in person, and on the phone.


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## DancingWaters (Mar 19, 2017)

The reason I might get some of my husbands SS is because I only taught 23 years and then I split my retirement and half of it is in a 401 A.  Thank you all for your perspective on the life insurance question. Financial advisor wanted my DH to take full retirement and just buy a large life insurance policy.  Unfortunately, my DH brother passed away last May and he did not put his wife on his post office pension and his life insurance came due and it was too expensive since he had cancer, so his wife is struggling financially. I was scared to death to go that route and repeat that same mistake.  Big decisions


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## VacationForever (Mar 19, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> Forecasting cash-flow is important, but if you have a decent nest-egg, you can, in effect, provide your own annuity (w/o commissions & fees).



An annuity shifts the risk of the market to the insurer.  Also, there are enough (all) studies to show that people who have pension that makes up part of their retirement income, large or small, are the happiest retirees.  Buying an annuity is essentially creating your own pension income.


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## bogey21 (Mar 19, 2017)

There were 12 of us who took advantage of an Early Retirement Window offered by out Employer and retired together in 2000.  I was the only one who took the annuity (Pension).  The others all took Lump Sums.  Best I can tell only 2, maybe 3 have any of the money left.  

George


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

amycurl said:


> Aww, retirement, how cute! As a Gen Xer, I truly doubt that anyone in my generation and below will ever really be able to retire.....maybe if they worked for a public entity, but even then, it's pretty iffy....


Guess again, Amy.  I am genX, one of the oldest, and am on track to depart cube life in 2025.  Of course, I started saving and investing in my 20s which maybe many of my age did not.  I graduated at recession so there weren't any gifts on silver platters, just decades of scrimping and saving so I could quit working before age 70.


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> The planner I sent a request to this morning already  responded back via email and we have an introductory phone call scheduled for this upcoming Wed. From his website he seems like exactly you what I have been looking for! Even uses the word holistic on the web site! He does not sell any investment or insurance products! Wow! Hope he is affordable. I will, of course, have to get references from him but this could be the one! And- he is located just 45 minutes from my home and in a town that I work in st least 2 half days per week! Plus my husband drives by the town exit on his commute home every day, so would be convenient for us!
> 
> He was not listed on the napfa website last Fall when I started this process.
> 
> Thanks for pushing me not to get discouraged!


Excellent!!!!    

You are much more savvy than the avg bear so 


mpumilia said:


> Here's the downside I just discovered upon doing more research- He is only in this business since Sept. which is why he wasn't listed when I first searched last year. He seems to only have 4 or so  years experience prior to this. (he was in the military) he has an MBA also and worked for USAA. I have to check into his background more.
> 
> There's always a catch.....


Honestly, you seem to have your ducks in row, so why not see what latest academia teaches?  One of you is likely to expand the horizons of the other.

I am not sure why you think you need help, as you seem to have it well in hand, so I would instead caution you in assuming whomever you meet with is more knowledgeable than you as to right course for you.

Timing of receiving benefits is a crap shoot.  Noodle out scenarios with pen and paper, choose best fit.


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

> More Gen Xers believe in UFOs than believe that Social Security will exist when we hit our 60s. I, personally, don't count on it. And we're a super-tiny generation. I can't imagine what will happen with Millennials, since there are just so. darned. many. of. you.


Please speak for yourself.  When I started out, it made sense to assume no SS, that every nickel needed in retirement would come from me.

I'm 51 and do believe SS will be there for me and I do not believe in UFOs.  I do not plan to take SS until 70 unless I actually need it, but I have planned and saved to not need it.


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> I believe for all retirement planning, it must start with realistic anticipated expenses for both and for one.  If you can get your reliable income stream as close to expenses as possible, then you can afford to be retired.


Yes.  I am building a rising income tide to replace work salary.  When mortgage is gone and I can reliably pay my bills with investments then I can retire.  Not before 59.5 as I must be able to pull from 401k>IRA without penalty, just in case.

Income vs expenses, simple as that.  Another 8 years of work ought to do it for me.  Wish I could retire today, I would loved to have kept sleeping on this yucky rainy Monday.


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

John Cummings said:


> I have been happily retired for going on 11 years now. I never made any plans nor intend to about what I am going to do. My wife and I do whatever we feel like doing on the spur of the moment. Both of us abhor schedules or having to be someplace or do something at a certain time.


yes.  I am not keen on clocks as it is, I have no intention of Structuring Retirement, and instead finally being able to be the free spirit that having a career never allowed.  First up will be at least 2 weeks of vacation, probably 3, since never in my work life have I had 3 consecutive weeks off.  What a joy it will be to not have that angst in the tummy over what I have to return to...  and the freedom of not having an external party dictate how long I can be gone, ever again.  aaahhhhhhh....  8 more years, holy crap, that's a long time, just 8 more, after the 35+ ... only 8 ....  I used to think I would work to age 70 but turns out, I don't like this any more.

joyous.  sleep late on yucky Mondays.  Say no to projects I really don't want to do. Say no to seeing people daily that I would not otherwise choose to be with ....  and no more living in a cube again ever abiding by no sneakers or no jeans rules...   barefoot in cut-offs, yeah, my retirement date is April 1, 2025, close enough to warm spring weather...


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> I was told by social security that the spouse won't get any social security because we have the pension from Illinois.  A teacher that I know was told she would get half of husbands ss.   So I don't know which is true.
> As for insurance, all I have is a two thousand dollar policy started over fifty years ago.
> We have one rental property, new last fall, and discovered the loss is not deductible if income over a certain threshold.


I personally plan for worst case in every event, that way, if a law changes or some party or another goes bk, my contingency plan already thought of that and no disaster.  Especially in these cases of "who knows what is true today , in your state or my state, and who knows what is true in a year or 10...."

I run projections from only my main nest egg, ignore the others, so if I'm wrong, I have other streams of revenue "just in case".  I can live off the main account and will know in 5ish years whether that will be spartan living or plush.


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## Talent312 (Mar 20, 2017)

Woo-Hoo! DW's new Medicare card with Part B just arrived. 

I've learned the hard way not to blithely accept that anyone who has your future in their hands will do their job correctly. You need to check and sometimes, double check, to make sure that the work is getting done.

This was confirmed by an incident today...
_Lab Receptionist: "We never got your doctor's order."
Dr's Office: "We sent it last week, but our servers are down now. Call back."_

At Social Security Office, we got time-stamped copies of the docs we submitted.
Called Division of Retirement to confirm they had received my termination docs.
Called TD Waterhouse to confirm they'd keep my rollover IRA open until $$ arrived.
Went online to verify that the Satisfaction of Mortgage had been recorded.
Went online to Medicare to confirm my DW's enrollment in other plans we selected.
Went online to Social Security to confirm that my application was approved.
... Still waiting on state employee insurance office to do their thing.

Six weeks to go.
_
.
_


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## PigsDad (Mar 20, 2017)

geekette said:


> Guess again, Amy.  I am genX, one of the oldest, and am on track to depart cube life in 2025.  Of course, I started saving and investing in my 20s which maybe many of my age did not.  I graduated at recession so there weren't any gifts on silver platters, just decades of scrimping and saving so I could quit working before age 70.


I'm with you, Geekette.  Yes, there are many GenX'ers that may have not saved enough and will have to work beyond retirement, but IMO they have no one to blame but themselves in most cases.

I'm 51 and from the very beginning of my working career I knew I needed to start saving for retirement.  I knew SS might be a crapshoot (would probably still be there, but benefits would likely be curbed) and it was clear, *even 30 years ago*, that one should not rely on a company pension, etc.  I needed to be responsible for myself, and I saved accordingly.  I started out on the bottom rung and had student loans like most others.  We didn't buy the biggest house we could have afforded, we didn't buy fancy cars every 2-3 years, etc.  I invested aggressively and never panicked when the markets had setbacks because I knew in the long term, the markets always performed.  In fact, when the stock market crashed in 2008, we stayed in the market, tightened our belts and _increased_ our saving contributions -- turned out to be the best move ever!  I never tried to time the market; I'm sure some people make money doing that, but history and statistics say most will not.

All of that paid off very well for me, I'm happy to say. I'm on track to retire in 7 years.  I probably could do it a bit sooner, but I don't want to retire before my daughter is out of college as that is an unknown expense at this time. I'm sure I have had some good luck along the way, but anyone who starts thinking about saving for retirement at the beginning of their career will have a high probability of success.  Those who just assume the government or their company would take care of them in retirement are fools, and I don't particularly feel that sorry for them.

Money Magazine had a decent article in this month's issue profiling three families and their plans to retire early.  It was a good read, and comparing their situation to mine made me feel good about my progress, as I was way ahead of all of the examples in the article.  Now I find myself planning my retirement activities. 

Kurt


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## rapmarks (Mar 20, 2017)

I keep getting quoted on my social security statement.  I get sixty dollars a month, I am not counting on it, my husband is not counting on mine after I die, which would be thirty dollars a month.  I merely responded to another teachers question about it Way back in this thread.  Worst case, I don't get social security, I would not notice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DancingWaters (Mar 20, 2017)

I definitely agree that a monthly pension is the way to go because if you take the lump sum it could be gone in a few short years. It great to hear how much fun everyone is having in retirement. Once we get all the decisions made we will have to start our retirement list.  Definitely on mine will be to not set an alarm.


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## Talent312 (Mar 20, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> Once we get all the decisions made, we will have to start our retirement list.  Definitely on mine will be to not set an alarm.



There will be two times when you'll want an alarm:
1. Morning flights to a vacation destination.
2. Morning appts for a lab-test after fasting the night b4.

.


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## Icc5 (Mar 20, 2017)

Kurt, I would say you are in a way where I was.  I'm 15 years older and never borrowed for school as I went to a local State College (became a University) while I was there.  I started saving for my future at 18 and felt like I was more from my parent's generation.  While everyone was buying the new or fastest car I bought what was a decent car that wouldn't cost me a fortune.  I went for the job with a good pension and good benefits all while looking at the future.  Bought my house at 26 again with the idea of the future and without carrying a huge debt. Load.  Retired at 62 with 43 years of never not working.  I could have retired at 55 but looked at what that extra 7 years would be worth to my family.
Now, we're both retired,live a kick back life, help the kids and grandkids.  I've done this all well living in one of the most costly areas of the country.  It is also right next door to where I grew up in a low to middle class family which survived because my Dad was also the same way but without an education.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

Icc5 said:


> Kurt, I would say you are in a way where I was.  I'm 15 years older and never borrowed for school as I went to a local State College (became a University) while I was there.  I started saving for my future at 18 and felt like I was more from my parent's generation.  While everyone was buying the new or fastest car I bought what was a decent car that wouldn't cost me a fortune.  I went for the job with a good pension and good benefits all while looking at the future.  Bought my house at 26 again with the idea of the future and without carrying a huge debt. Load.  Retired at 62 with 43 years of never not working.  I could have retired at 55 but looked at what that extra 7 years would be worth to my family.
> Now, we're both retired,live a kick back life, help the kids and grandkids.  I've done this all well living in one of the most costly areas of the country.  It is also right next door to where I grew up in a low to middle class family which survived because my Dad was also the same way but without an education.




I- and my husband-the same as you. Except the key in your story is still the pension. If we had a pension we would be retired now as well. Unfortunately, we have to wait to get SS and Medicare, even with all we have saved.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> An annuity shifts the risk of the market to the insurer.  Also, there are enough (all) studies to show that people who have pension that makes up part of their retirement income, large or small, are the happiest retirees.  Buying an annuity is essentially creating your own pension income.



I consider SS an annuity. Other than that, I really can't see giving an insurance company a big lump sum of our money just to turn around and give it back to us each month. You could do that yourself. Plus- if you need a chunk of money for a medical emergency or whatever, now you don't have access to it. Maybe you need it for assisted living or to give to a grandchild. No thanks on annuities for me. Already gave SS my money over my lifetime. That is enough of an annuity.


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## amycurl (Mar 20, 2017)

geekette said:


> Please speak for yourself.  When I started out, it made sense to assume no SS, that every nickel needed in retirement would come from me.
> 
> I'm 51 and do believe SS will be there for me and I do not believe in UFOs.  I do not plan to take SS until 70 unless I actually need it, but I have planned and saved to not need it.



I was speaking for myself, and I was quoting from national research about the belief in UFOs vs. presence of SS. Sorry if you apparently took offense at my comments.


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## VacationForever (Mar 20, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I consider SS an annuity. Other than that, I really can't see giving an insurance company a big lump sum of our money just to turn around and give it back to us each month. You could do that yourself. Plus- if you need a chunk of money for a medical emergency or whatever, now you don't have access to it. Maybe you need it for assisted living or to give to a grandchild. No thanks on annuities for me. Already gave SS my money over my lifetime. That is enough of an annuity.



I like having "guaranteed" income stream and SS income is insufficient to meet our expense needs.  What I "gave" to the annuity company has guaranteed double returns, not something any market or investment company can guarantee on my investments.  We still have other financial resources/investments to support emergency needs.  The assets surrendered to buy annuity makes up about 15 percent of our assets.  We like the diversification.  If we have any sort of decent pension, we would not be buying an annuity.  We do not have a pension and we are creating one for ourselves through an annuity.


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2017)

This kind of sums up our situation, except we bought fixed term (25 years) deferred income annuity.  Need more than what SS pays...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/28/retirement/retirement-income-annuity/


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## DancingWaters (Mar 21, 2017)

I can appreciate your take on annunities.  Going through my retirement papers I found I have a couple of accounts that I can draw from or take a chunk out at one time. That makes me feel better plus my DH keeps telling me we will be fine   On to enjoying adventure without being so tired


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 21, 2017)

There are 3 major financial aspects for a Retirement Plan:
*SPEND* rate
*PORTFOLIO* amount
*YEARS* (how long $ expected to last based on Spend and Portfolio)

For an interesting analysis these factors and their infliuences - this check out the free FIRE Calculator.
http://firecalc.com

What is great about this retirement calculator is that you can easily change inputs and submit. It evaluates risk (probability) of running out of money based on ever-changing historic economic conditions.

The Tabs on top are:
*Start: *Spend, Portfolio, and Years
*Other Income/Spending:* Covers SS, and Pensions (etc) as well as additional Spend
*Not Retired: *Covers Retirement Year, and Amount added to Porfolio
*Spending Models:* Covers Inflation scenarios, and future Spending (changes with age). The 3rd button is basic annual market growth (equities, fixed income, and inflation) - this was very eye opening for me.
*Portfolio: *Covers Management fees (expense ratio) and Portfolio types
*Portfolio Changes: *Add/Subtract Lump Sum changes in future (e.g. House sale/purchase)
*Investigate: *Investigates changes to Retirement Plan (the 5th button looks at Portfolio and Spend as function of success - very interesting and important evaluation). The Spend level button - shows the success rate of various spend rates.

I used my numbers and scenarios in the FIRE Calculator prior to consulting a Wealth Management advisor. It really helped in confidence in ability to retire as it is quite scary to give up an income from working that I am so used to after so many (too many) years.

Good luck.


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## tashamen (Mar 21, 2017)

I appreciate all the helpful information in this thread.  I was planning on retiring early at the end of 2018 but am now shooting for the end of 2017 and believe I can do it!


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 21, 2017)

tashamen said:


> I appreciate all the helpful information in this thread.  I was planning on retiring early at the end of 2018 but am now shooting for the end of 2017 and believe I can do it!



Congrats.
Along with FIRE Calc (above) - check out Early Retirement BBS (like TUG for early retirement - lots of helpful and diverse users, and practical/pragmatic info)

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/


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## tashamen (Mar 22, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats.
> Along with FIRE Calc (above) - check out Early Retirement BBS (like TUG for early retirement - lots of helpful and diverse users, and practical/pragmatic info)
> 
> http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/



Thanks - I did check into that and it looks useful.  And possibly as addicting as TUG.


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## chalee94 (Mar 22, 2017)

geekette said:


> Yes.  I am building a rising income tide to replace work salary.  When mortgage is gone and I can reliably pay my bills with investments then I can retire.  Not before 59.5 as I must be able to pull from 401k>IRA without penalty, just in case.



exceptions to the rule about 401(k)s to be aware of, in case you are not:



> *Tax on early distributions*.
> 
> If a distribution is made to you under the plan before you reach age 59½, you may have to pay a 10% additional tax on the distribution. This tax applies to the amount received that you must include in income.
> 
> ...


https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plan...-plan-participants-general-distribution-rules


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## puppymommo (Mar 22, 2017)

My current retirement plan is to "retire" at ago 62 or 63 and go teach English abroad until my FRA. This is a life-long dream for me. I should earn enough to live on and delay receiving my pension benefit and SS such as it may be in the future. Right now I'm thinking a year or two in Indonesia (where I lived for 6 months back in my early 20s) and a year in China (also on my bucket list). The only drawback I can see is possible health problems in the future and being away that long (a year at a time) from my daughter.


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## VacationForever (Mar 22, 2017)

I retired last year at 53 despite my original plan to retire at 62.  Then figuring out where the money is going to come from was both a challenge and a fascination.  No pension, little SS that will start at 62... hence using my IRA to buy annuity that starts at 60, narrowed my income gap into a 7-year problem, that felt alot more manageable.  Thought I might go back to work since I do really enjoy working.  But I am really busy with not working, so we decided that as long as we can make retirement work and I am not bored, I won't work anymore.  I will probably run for HOA board next year here where we live.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 22, 2017)

The CFP called me today and spoke with me for an hour. He was excellent and comprehensive. I liked most of what I heard- except the amount of the yearly fee-$10,000!!!!!  I honestly think he would deserve that going in because it is a lot of work to do holistic and comprehensive management. BUT- my husband and I just have a problem with paying that kind of money out of what we don't consider that substantial of assets. He charges what I have read most advisors of this type charge, but we are not people with pensions- except a private one my husband MIGHT get which is small and nothing you can live on. Then if we have to pay the advisor- I just can't wrap my head around paying out that kind of money from what we have- now or when we are retired. In ten years- that would be $100,000 out of our funds! Our net worth is good, but it also includes a possible lump sum payout of my husband's pension- again, which is not that large and which he might not get because he works for a private company and you never know-and it also includes our home, which we could have a hard time selling and we could also have a hard time buying another place to live because our house value is low because of a bad market here as well.

Then we could be stuck living in high tax NY, in our aging, high maintenance house, living on our SS checks and so forth, and also paying the FP $10,000 per year? Yikes!

He said the fee amount would be good for 2 years and then adjusted accordingly.

He emphasized that he does not sell investments, but he did say as part of his service he would manage our accounts- put them in TD Ameritrade- I was not crazy about that either. I would rather an advisor suggest what I should do with what we have and we decide and make the transactions, etc. I guess he must also make money by moving clients assets into a discount brokerage firm.He did say we could keep some of our fund company funds within TDA or whatever.

So, we are going to write down more questions and also look into his other plans that have just a one time fee, or hourly, etc.


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## John Cummings (Mar 22, 2017)

At the beginning my CFP  charged 1% annually of the value of how much he was managing. He not only managed our investments but also advised me on my corporate business. I had my own business and was incorporated. He is an enrolled tax agent so he also did our taxes. He saved us a lot of money in taxes. Once everything was setup, he charged us very little. I work very closely with him as we talk at least once a week. Since I have been retired I pay almost nothing. 

I believe 1% is pretty common for a fee based CFP. Of course you must have a large enough portfolio to make it worth their time.


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## geekette (Mar 22, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> He emphasized that he does not sell investments, but he did say as part of his service he would manage our accounts



That's not part of his service, that IS his service!  From what I understand of what you have put together over the years, you definitely don't need that.  I am not sure you need ongoing assistance, either, certainly not that much of it.    

Hold your ground on what you want, what you need as their motivation will be to get your account, not have a one and done meeting.  I would hate to see your confidence shaken by a ts salesman.   Buy the advice and not the combo platter.


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## Talent312 (Mar 22, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> ...[H]e did say as part of his service he would manage our accounts- put them in TD Ameritrade...



DW and I each have a Rollover IRA and a Roth IRA at TD Ameritrade (4 accounts). We set them up and manage them ourselves. Ameritrade may not be the cheapest online broker, but IMO, they have a decent trading and research platform. I'm sure that many others would do just as well.

IOW, he's not out to lunch on that, but his fee would send me running for the hills.
.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 23, 2017)

Ye


John Cummings said:


> At the beginning my CFP  charged 1% annually of the value of how much he was managing. He not only managed our investments but also advised me on my corporate business. I had my own business and was incorporated. He is an enrolled tax agent so he also did our taxes. He saved us a lot of money in taxes. Once everything was setup, he charged us very little. I work very closely with him as we talk at least once a week. Since I have been retired I pay almost nothing.
> 
> I believe 1% is pretty common for a fee based CFP. Of course you must have a large enough portfolio to make it worth their time.




Yes, this guy I spoke with specializes in taxes- that is an extra fee as well. When you own a business- this is different as there is even more for the CFP to deal with.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 23, 2017)

R


Talent312 said:


> DW and I each have a Rollover IRA and a Roth IRA at TD Ameritrade (4 accounts). We set them up and manage them ourselves. Ameritrade may not be the cheapest online broker, but IMO, they have a decent trading and research platform. I'm sure that many others would do just as well.
> 
> IOW, he's not out to lunch on that, but his fee would send me running for the hills.
> .



Right. I don't see why I have to move my money to another place. I use a mutual find company and their brokerage.


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## sts1732 (Mar 23, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> R
> 
> 
> Right. I don't see why I have to move my money to another place. I use a mutual find company and their brokerage.


As I am approaching the 70 and half rule, and I have several annuities, thus having taking to take allocations from each. I rolled them into a new Roth IRA. For future use. Perhaps that island with the umbrella drinks. Where I can watch the ocean and wonder how the people back home are doing in the snow..........


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## VacationForever (Mar 23, 2017)

10K per yr sounds very high, unless you have alot of money to be managed... we pay 0.8 percent to a large wealth management firm. But, in reality, way less than that, because some of the investments do not incur  management fees.  If you are interested to know more, PM me..


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## capjak (Mar 23, 2017)

I would recommend that you go to early retirement forum ( my earlier post) and post  your questions and research first it is like TUG.  If you are willing to do your research than you do not need a Financial Planner, however, if you have no interest than one maybe helpful.  In addition, you can use less expensive options like Betterment, Personal Capital, etc.. these work very well or if you want it simple:  decide on an asset allocation (stock/bonds) say 60%/40% and buy a Vanguard Global Stock ETF and a Vanguard Global Bond ETF in your desired asset allocation (keep an emergency fund in cash separate from these perhaps 1 years expenses) and once a year rebalance.  I am not a financial planner so you need to do your own research....


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## x3 skier (Mar 23, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> As I am approaching the 70 and half rule, and I have several annuities, thus having taking to take allocations from each. I rolled them into a new Roth IRA. For future use. Perhaps that island with the umbrella drinks. Where I can watch the ocean and wonder how the people back home are doing in the snow..........



Doing well in the CO snow, skiing 3-4 times a week

Cheers


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## Icc5 (Mar 23, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I- and my husband-the same as you. Except the key in your story is still the pension. If we had a pension we would be retired now as well. Unfortunately, we have to wait to get SS and Medicare, even with all we have saved.


Mary Ann, don't know what you do or make for a living but a choice I made with the pension was the job (retail clerk) at Safeway was low pay in our area.  For most of my 43 years I made less then $20 an hour.  I did work in management for several years and at that time assistant managers were still union with all the benefits.  Worst move I ever made was becoming a Store Manager and between long hours (70 a week in small store) and not much more pay and then paying for my benefits I was actually down to about $16 an hour with over 20 years in at the time.
Yes, the pension made all the difference and would have retired even earlier except they lowered what each year was worth in the pension during the last 10 years from $75 to 40.  That alone cost me $350 a month more I would have been making now.


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## geekette (Mar 23, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> As I am approaching the 70 and half rule, and I have several annuities, thus having taking to take allocations from each. I rolled them into a new Roth IRA. For future use. Perhaps that island with the umbrella drinks. Where I can watch the ocean and wonder how the people back home are doing in the snow..........


Can you please elaborate?  Did you hold these annuities IN your IRA?  Otherwise, I am unaware of rules requiring withdrawals from an annuity.

Meanwhile, I am with ya on the beach with umbrella drinks. Cabo, February, prime whale-watching...


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## WinniWoman (Mar 23, 2017)

capjak said:


> I would recommend that you go to early retirement forum ( my earlier post) and post  your questions and research first it is like TUG.  If you are willing to do your research than you do not need a Financial Planner, however, if you have no interest than one maybe helpful.  In addition, you can use less expensive options like Betterment, Personal Capital, etc.. these work very well or if you want it simple:  decide on an asset allocation (stock/bonds) say 60%/40% and buy a Vanguard Global Stock ETF and a Vanguard Global Bond ETF in your desired asset allocation (keep an emergency fund in cash separate from these perhaps 1 years expenses) and once a year rebalance.  I am not a financial planner so you need to do your own research....




Yes. I have been on that forum. I do manage our money- do all that- always have.  I really wanted a FP's opinion on how to manage withdrawals upon retirement- how/when to take retirement and claim SS, Medicare- like more of a coaching/holistic type thing.


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## geekette (Mar 23, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Yes. I have been on that forum. I do manage our money- do all that- always have.  I really wanted a FP's opinion on how to manage withdrawals upon retirement- how/when to take retirement and claim SS, Medicare- like more of a coaching/holistic type thing.


I think that it will be difficult to get good advice on this.  

You are a smart cookie, run your own scenarios.  Seriously, I fear you would get "professional advice" that pushes you off the course you have identified as best for the two of you in exchange for cookie cutter info.  Or, you spend money to find out that you didn't learn anything new. 

Perhaps you think you want to go with Plan A, whatever that is, let's say SS asap x 2.  Run the numbers out 10-20 years to get any idea.

Do same for Plan B, Plan C, etc.  There are a lot of special calculators out there, use what gives you the most flexibility in changing parameters like tax bracket, inflation, etc., so you can test in good and bad economic conditions and pick your best all purpose path.  Definitely run one Best Case Scenario, everything better than planned!  and also Worst Case Scenario, all estimates are off!  Somewhere in the middle will be reality.

I don't think there is One Best Answer, no matter how many planners you end up being able to find.  No one has a crystal ball and no one is more interested in your future financial well-being as you are.

I do of course hope you find someone helpful because you want to find them, but I think you have the smarts needed and just want a "yes, this is a good solid plan" confirmation.  Nothing wrong with that.  I hope you find it and can put crisis of confidence behind you and retire with some certainty that Yes, today I can stop working!

I further hope that SS and Medicare discussions around these parts help you since so many have already travelled this path.  At 51, I'm not putting forth any special effort to understand Medicare just yet, and it is clearly more complex than I had originally thought.   SS for me is the only fixed payment so I want to push it off as long as possible.  

Continued good luck, and good investing!


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## sts1732 (Mar 23, 2017)

geekette said:


> Can you please elaborate?  Did you hold these annuities IN your IRA?  Otherwise, I am unaware of rules requiring withdrawals from an annuity.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am with ya on the beach with umbrella drinks. Cabo, February, prime whale-watching...


We split up my 401K upon retiring into 3 different annuities. They are separate from one another, having to be held at least 15 yrs. Two fixed, one in IRA. By the rules of SS, once you reach age 70 and a half, you have to start taking mandatory withdrawals from each one. Either in one yearly withdrawal or monthly. You use the money or put them into a different IRA. Since I already draw from a pension plus SS, we elected to deposit in a Roth IRA. It should also be noted that you WILL PAY TAX on your withdrawals. That's the reason we rolled it over into an IRA. After the feds got their part(again) we are able to recoup some of what was taxed(so far), hoping the market still keeps climbing....


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## sts1732 (Mar 23, 2017)

x3 skier said:


> Doing well in the CO snow, skiing 3-4 times a week
> 
> Cheers


Pushin 70 and can't quite miss the trees. Besides.......I don't have that much insolation anymore...................


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## geekette (Mar 23, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> We split up my 401K upon retiring into 3 different annuities. They are separate from one another, having to be held at least 15 yrs. Two fixed, one in IRA. By the rules of SS, once you reach age 70 and a half, you have to start taking mandatory withdrawals from each one. Either in one yearly withdrawal or monthly. You use the money or put them into a different IRA. Since I already draw from a pension plus SS, we elected to deposit in a Roth IRA. It should also be noted that you WILL PAY TAX on your withdrawals. That's the reason we rolled it over into an IRA. After the feds got their part(again) we are able to recoup some of what was taxed(so far), hoping the market still keeps climbing....


aye, thank you for additional color, makes a lot more sense now!

Since I'm not much for annuities, I would not have guessed that lands you in forced withdrawals from each since IRA rules don't care from where, just get it outa there!

Yeah, no matter what vehicle it is invested in within IRA, withdraw = tax.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 23, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> We split up my 401K upon retiring into 3 different annuities. They are separate from one another, having to be held at least 15 yrs. Two fixed, one in IRA. By the rules of SS, once you reach age 70 and a half, you have to start taking mandatory withdrawals from each one. Either in one yearly withdrawal or monthly. You use the money or put them into a different IRA. Since I already draw from a pension plus SS, we elected to deposit in a Roth IRA. It should also be noted that you WILL PAY TAX on your withdrawals. That's the reason we rolled it over into an IRA. After the feds got their part(again) we are able to recoup some of what was taxed(so far), hoping the market still keeps climbing....




Don't you have to be working to contribute to an IRA? And isn't having an annuity inside an IRA kind of redundant being money in annuities is tax free until withdrawn? I don't get it.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 23, 2017)

geekette said:


> I think that it will be difficult to get good advice on this.
> 
> You are a smart cookie, run your own scenarios.  Seriously, I fear you would get "professional advice" that pushes you off the course you have identified as best for the two of you in exchange for cookie cutter info.  Or, you spend money to find out that you didn't learn anything new.
> 
> ...



LOL! You have more confidence in me than I do! I really just wanted a so-called expert to look at the money we have- tell me if it is enough or not. Based on that, when can we retire from these hell-hole jobs, how much will what we have generate in income each year, when to take SS, etc. etc.

If I had millions of dollars. this guy would be great. But- to hand over $10,000 per year- if we were going to do that we would rather give it to our son who struggles financially. 

I am starting to think I should stop thinking and just go with the flow and deal with things as they happen and the heck with it.


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## VacationForever (Mar 23, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> We split up my 401K upon retiring into 3 different annuities. They are separate from one another, having to be held at least 15 yrs. Two fixed, one in IRA. By the rules of SS, once you reach age 70 and a half, you have to start taking mandatory withdrawals from each one. Either in one yearly withdrawal or monthly. You use the money or put them into a different IRA. Since I already draw from a pension plus SS, we elected to deposit in a Roth IRA. It should also be noted that you WILL PAY TAX on your withdrawals. That's the reason we rolled it over into an IRA. After the feds got their part(again) we are able to recoup some of what was taxed(so far), hoping the market still keeps climbing....


You can delay withdrawal by up to a max of 125K in IRA money by buying a QLAC deferred annuity that starts payout at 85.....


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## bogey21 (Mar 23, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You can delay withdrawal by up to a max of 125K in IRA money by buying a QLAC deferred annuity that starts payout at 85.....



Although I'm all set and past the point of having to plan cash flows for my future (I'm 82 now), if I were younger I would be carefully analyzing the desirability of deferred annuities.  I would want to know more about them.

George


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## DancingWaters (Mar 23, 2017)

Vacation forever,
What happened that you retired at 52 instead of your intended age of 62?   I was talked into putting half my teachers pension in a one time plop and the plop failed. The stock market was not kind to the limited mutual funds I was able to choose from, so thank goodness I did keep half my monthly pension.  As an earlier post mentioned too many retirees take their money and don't take the monthly pension. 10 years later they are struggling financially.  Unfortunately, my 88 year old mom is one of them. Alot of financial advisors recommend taking a retirement lump sum and giving up the monthly pension, so it was very hard to work through this process. Going with a sure thing, the monthly pension, will let both of us sleep better at night.


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## geist1223 (Mar 24, 2017)

We had friends that pulled all their money out of their retirement system. Some Advisor convinced they could make more money that way. They both had to get new full time or part time jobs. When we retired a couple years after them we chose to leave the money alone. When we retired the fund calculated our monthly payment and it is guaranteed for life. Plus we had the option to take a few dollars less per month so when one of us die first the other continues to receive the deceased's retirement for life. We both took that option.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 24, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> LOL! You have more confidence in me than I do! I really just wanted a so-called expert to look at the money we have- *tell me if it is enough or not*. Based on that, when can we retire from these hell-hole jobs, how much will what we have generate in income each year, when to take SS, etc. etc.



I know you said you have visited the Early Retirement Forum as capjak recommended upstream, but one way to tell if you'll have enough is to use the Firecalc tool, often mentioned on that site. It'll take some work to enter figures and expectations, but will help. Personally I've used a similar free tool on the Fidelity website.  (Another very short-cut method is to figure out your fixed income & fixed expenses in retirement, if you have a shortage, then multiply the difference or shortage by 25.  That's the additional amount you'll need in your supplemental nest egg.  I'd suggest you go beyond the short-cut method and use a simulator tool.)


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## VacationForever (Mar 24, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> Vacation forever,
> What happened that you retired at 52 instead of your intended age of 62?   I was talked into putting half my teachers pension in a one time plop and the plop failed. The stock market was not kind to the limited mutual funds I was able to choose from, so thank goodness I did keep half my monthly pension.  As an earlier post mentioned too many retirees take their money and don't take the monthly pension. 10 years later they are struggling financially.  Unfortunately, my 88 year old mom is one of them. Alot of financial advisors recommend taking a retirement lump sum and giving up the monthly pension, so it was very hard to work through this process. Going with a sure thing, the monthly pension, will let both of us sleep better at night.


Don't know what a plop is.  We don't have pension, so we pretty much have to dig into savings to supplement IRA withdrawal, SS and IRA annuity payout.  I retired at 53, not 52.


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## sts1732 (Mar 24, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Don't you have to be working to contribute to an IRA? And isn't having an annuity inside an IRA kind of redundant being money in annuities is tax free until withdrawn? I don't get it.


No you don't have to be working to contribute to an IRA. The annuity isn't inside an IRA. I had 3 different plans, 2 different annuities, 1 IRA. When you reach 70 1/2 by SS rules you must take disbursements from each one. In my case all 3. Not needing any extra cash at this time, I set up a different/separate Roth IRA in case something catastrophic happens, I can get monies with out being taxed again. Yes, your money is tax free in any plan until withdrawn, but with the Roth why pay again when you really need it. With the family history of cancer it seemed the best way to go. Hope this answered questions.


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## Elan (Mar 24, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I am starting to think I should stop thinking and just go with the flow and deal with things as they happen and the heck with it.



  Regardless of how much planning and saving you do, I think this is key -- being adaptable.  My retirement "plan" has always been to adjust my lifestyle to fit my income.


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## Passepartout (Mar 24, 2017)

Elan said:


> Regardless of how much planning and saving you do, I think this is key -- being adaptable.  My retirement "plan" has always been to adjust my lifestyle to fit my income.


That's kinda how it works in real life. During your working life, you plan, (hopefully) save/invest, pay off big ticket items like home & cars, and realize that some things are just beyond your control. The only REAL choice you have is when  to stop working and when to start collecting your Social Security. THEN you do a little back-of-the-envelope arithmetic of just what your income will look like, and for how long it might be necessary, and adjust your lifestyle to match. There are always unexpected occurrences that can get thrown in. illness/injury, death of one spouse or the other, windfall inheritance, you name it. Then you adjust again. Over the course of retirement- likely 20-30 or more years, you may do the 'lifestyle adjustment' exercise so often that it seems an ongoing, almost month-to-month exercise.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Mar 24, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> No you don't have to be working to contribute to an IRA. The annuity isn't inside an IRA. I had 3 different plans, 2 different annuities, 1 IRA. When you reach 70 1/2 by SS rules you must take disbursements from each one. In my case all 3. Not needing any extra cash at this time, I set up a different/separate Roth IRA in case something catastrophic happens, I can get monies with out being taxed again. Yes, your money is tax free in any plan until withdrawn, but with the Roth why pay again when you really need it. With the family history of cancer it seemed the best way to go. Hope this answered questions.




I beg to differ. You need to have earned income to contribute to an IRA. I am not talking about rollovers- just new money.


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## sts1732 (Mar 24, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I beg to differ. You need to have earned income to contribute to an IRA. I am not talking about rollovers- just new money.


If in taking a disbursement, you pay tax, then have to claim it at the end of the yr. both total amount and taxes pd. Taking money from one to another, except in a roll over, you still pay tax. Even though the sum was first established by you(to be used later in life) it is still earned income at distribution. It's all in the details and terminology, it's your money, you put it away, paid tax when you put it away, but the Feds still get there cut as earned income in the end, that's what makes it NEW MONEY...........
If you bought your house for 50K 20yrs. ago, sold it today for 100K. The 50K over what you pd. originally is considered "NEW MONEY". Did you work for it(well sorta) no......but you still show it as earned income whether you spend it or put it in a IRA.


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## Talent312 (Mar 24, 2017)

Adaptability:
Near the end of each month, I do a budget for the next three.
Month 1 is well-settled, as it's based on actual bills received.
But months 2 & 3 often fail to account for the little surprises
... like visits to The Mall or Home Depot.

More Paperwork:
1. Confirmed DW's drug plan approved and listed on Medicare's website...
But had to send Humana a letter about prior drug coverage to avoid a penalty.

2. Submitted DW's Medigap application to BC/BS-Florida (Plan F)
... She quickly dismissed the idea of no-premium Advantage Plan. <sigh>

Weekend Homework: Fill out a W-4P for my pension's tax withholding.

.


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## PamMo (Mar 24, 2017)

Did anyone catch the online _*Morningstar Retirement Readiness Bootcamp*_ last week? DH and I thought it was pretty good. You can find the videos here: 

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=798639


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## WinniWoman (Mar 24, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> If in taking a disbursement, you pay tax, then have to claim it at the end of the yr. both total amount and taxes pd. Taking money from one to another, except in a roll over, you still pay tax. Even though the sum was first established by you(to be used later in life) it is still earned income at distribution. It's all in the details and terminology, it's your money, you put it away, paid tax when you put it away, but the Feds still get there cut as earned income in the end, that's what makes it NEW MONEY...........
> If you bought your house for 50K 20yrs. ago, sold it today for 100K. The 50K over what you pd. originally is considered "NEW MONEY". Did you work for it(well sorta) no......but you still show it as earned income whether you spend it or put it in a IRA.




Wow! Interesting? So you are saying when you take an RMD, for example. out of an IRA, that you can actually put it back into the IRA? 

As for the house example- are you kidding? You can also do the same with that?

This is legit? Is it in writing anywhere? I honestly never heard of this. See- I keep telling people- there are things about managing money that I do not get.


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## x3 skier (Mar 24, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> If in taking a disbursement, you pay tax, then have to claim it at the end of the yr. both total amount and taxes pd. Taking money from one to another, except in a roll over, you still pay tax. Even though the sum was first established by you(to be used later in life) it is still earned income at distribution. It's all in the details and terminology, it's your money, you put it away, paid tax when you put it away, but the Feds still get there cut as earned income in the end, that's what makes it NEW MONEY...........
> If you bought your house for 50K 20yrs. ago, sold it today for 100K. The 50K over what you pd. originally is considered "NEW MONEY". Did you work for it(well sorta) no......but you still show it as earned income whether you spend it or put it in a IRA.



I would definitely consult a tax specialist about this. "It depends". For example, I had earned income money that I paid tax on that I put in an IRA. The only taxes I paid on the withdrawal was the increase in value, not the original amount. Later when the rule changed, I paid no taxes on earned income that I put in an IRA and all withdrawals were taxable. A Roth IRA is different still. 

As far as taxes on the growth in value of a house, it can be either regular taxable income, a capital gain or nothing at all if invested in another house.

If you want to die a slow and agonizing death, read the tax code

Cheers


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## sts1732 (Mar 24, 2017)

x3 skier said:


> I would definitely consult a tax specialist about this. "It depends". For example, I had earned income money that I paid tax on that I put in an IRA. The only taxes I paid on the withdrawal was the increase in value, not the original amount. Later when the rule changed, I paid no taxes on earned income that I put in an IRA and all withdrawals were taxable. A Roth IRA is different still.
> 
> As far as taxes on the growth in value of a house, it can be either regular taxable income, a capital gain or nothing at all if invested in another house.
> 
> ...


I only used the house example as capital gains to show you only pd. on what you EARNED, that amount would be taxed as earned income. NOTHING MORE, I don't believe I said anything about "DEPENDS"(your words). Sadly to say I do know the difference between Roth, different IRA's, annuities, and the disbursement there of. Along with the reinvestment of house to house. I was trying to show in my poor description of "EARNED INCOME" TO THE ORIGINAL OP in that I was left with the impression that in her question of "don't you have to be working to have earned income". Maybe by terminology isn't on the same level as yours or the original OP, and for that I am truly sorry.
"If you want to die a slow and agonizing death, read the tax code"(your quote). It would seem I'm having that experience now.


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## sts1732 (Mar 24, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Wow! Interesting? So you are saying when you take an RMD, for example. out of an IRA, that you can actually put it back into the IRA?
> 
> As for the house example- are you kidding? You can also do the same with that?
> 
> This is legit? Is it in writing anywhere? I honestly never heard of this. See- I keep telling people- there are things about managing money that I do not get.


I'm only trying to understand your definition of earned income, my understanding, and I seem to missing the point plus mudding the waters with my examples, that you seem to love to take issue with.  HAVE A NICE DAY......


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## isisdave (Mar 24, 2017)

Earned income, generally, is what you get from working, either wages or self-employment.

Investment income, including capital gains from property, is NOT earned income, and thus does not qualify for contributing to an IRA.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/earned-income

Also, you are not permitted "roll over" a traditional IRA, or an RMD from one, into another tax-advantaged account such as a Roth IRA. To "contribute" to any kind of an IRA, it has to be earned income (income from working that year). But this doesn't mean that you have to use money from any specific account; it just means that you have to have the earned income. So you could take money from the IRA to your bank account and then send it on to the Roth, as long as you had that much earned income (this would permit you to do the transfer early in the year, perhaps before you had actually received the earned income).

It's not usual to have annuities inside an IRA but it is allowed. Annuities don't have RMDs; it's the IRA that has the RMD. It's still not quite clear to me what kind of annuity sts1732 has (deferred, immediate, etc.)

Apropos of nothing, 1732 is one of my favorite numbers: engineers know that it's the birth year of George Washington, and the square root of 3 (times 1000).


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## rapmarks (Mar 24, 2017)

I am confused, I have to take rmd but I don't have to pull anything from my annuities except for an inherited annuity.  I also thought that earned income is not considered interest, dividends, capital gains, or anything reported on a 1099.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## x3 skier (Mar 24, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> I am confused, I have to take rmd but I don't have to pull anything from my annuities except for an inherited annuity.  I also thought that earned income is not considered interest, dividends, capital gains, or *anything reported on a 1099.  *
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



All of my self employment income from consulting is reported on a 1099 (1099-MISC)

Cheers


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## rapmarks (Mar 25, 2017)

Yes I should have said 1099R.    At least when we retired we were told we couldn't put any money in an ira because we had no earned income.  I was self employed for a few years and could have put that sum in an ira. If I could put our RMD in a Roth, or any of our investment income, it would be fantastic.


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## pedro47 (Mar 25, 2017)

I have been ret'd now for 17 years.
Please review all insurance policies.
Please review and update beneficiary on insurance policies and all IRA & Roth accounts 
Please do not stop saving for a rainy day.
Please review you will and make sure you have a living will in place.
Please do not sit around the house and do nothing (eat right and exercise).
This is my major suggestion. Please enjoy your retirement.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 25, 2017)

sts1732 said:


> I'm only trying to understand your definition of earned income, my understanding, and I seem to missing the point plus mudding the waters with my examples, that you seem to love to take issue with.  HAVE A NICE DAY......




Really- I was only honestly trying to understand what you were saying. It is sometimes hard on a forum to express what you mean in writing. Not trying to discredit you in any way. Sorry if I came across that way.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 25, 2017)

isisdave said:


> Earned income, generally, is what you get from working, either wages or self-employment.
> 
> Investment income, including capital gains from property, is NOT earned income, and thus does not qualify for contributing to an IRA.
> 
> ...



Thank you. This is what I was trying to get across.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 25, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> I have been ret'd now for 17 years.
> Please review all insurance policies.
> Please review and update beneficiary on insurance policies and all IRA & Roth accounts
> Please do not stop saving for a rainy day.
> ...




Good suggestions. 

Our term life insurance policies all stop at age 65. Also- how do you save additional money when retired when you don't have a salary any more?


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## rapmarks (Mar 25, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Good suggestions.
> 
> Our term life insurance policies all stop at age 65. Also- how do you save additional money when retired when you don't have a salary any more?



Somehow my mother and aunts were able to save money after retirement and they lived on social security!
It is good advice to review everything every couple of years.  When I had to take over my aunts finances, Bank of America would not recognize power of attorney over two years old.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sts1732 (Mar 25, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thank you. This is what I was trying to get across.


Pointe taken...................In quoting the late Will Rodgers............."if you find yourself in a hole.............stop digging"  No offence on my part.  HAVE A NICE DAY


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## PamMo (Mar 25, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> ...Also- how do you save additional money when retired when you don't have a salary any more?



Just like some people spend more money than they earn during their working years, some retirees have unsustainable budgets that will quickly deplete their savings. Budget for a cushion between what money is coming in and what money is going out.


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## Talent312 (Mar 25, 2017)

PamMo said:


> Budget for a cushion between what money is coming in and what money is going out.



Our retirement budget includes a regular transfer of cash to an online savings account.
This account serves three primary purposes:
(1) A sinking fund for annual expenses such as MF's and property taxes & insurance;
(2) A slush fund for fun-stuff like travel and other projects; and
(3) A rainy-day reserve for unplanned expenses (the minimum balance).
A cash-savings account gives you easy access to $$ and avoids tapping into retirement accounts.

.


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## Born2Travel (Mar 25, 2017)

Our retirement budget also includes a regular transfer of cash to savings account(s) - we probably have 7-8 or more.  I haven't counted, but everything goes into a different "bucket" - MF's in one, taxes in another, insurance in another, etc.  It's just easier for me to keep them separate and it works for us.  When it's time to pay, I just take it from the proper bucket. (account)


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## geekette (Mar 27, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Also- how do you save additional money when retired when you don't have a salary any more?


Dividends from more than 80 companies will be paying me more than I need without selling shares.  My plan is to retire when the 80+ cos pay me more than the one (and mortgage is paid off, which will happen before I hit that mark).  With div raises annually, and continuing to reinvest divs in as many companies as possible, once I hit the right annual haul it should get better every year (no guarantees of course).   

I will also be ditching expenses that associate to work vs full time vacation (fuel, clothes, lunch out...).    And eventually take SS which will presumably be the cherry on top.  I also will be able to do more handyman stuff myself vs hiring someone else, because I will have time and not have to have everything shut down and cleaned up by Sun evening to delay until the next weekend.  I will also be cooking a lot more of my meals and eating at home more for exactly that reason - time to make what I actually like!!  Less convenience foods.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 27, 2017)

Born2Travel said:


> Our retirement budget also includes a regular transfer of cash to savings account(s) - we probably have 7-8 or more.  I haven't counted, but everything goes into a different "bucket" - MF's in one, taxes in another, insurance in another, etc.  It's just easier for me to keep them separate and it works for us.  When it's time to pay, I just take it from the proper bucket. (account)




I do that now with our wages.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 27, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> Our retirement budget includes a regular transfer of cash to an online savings account.
> This account serves three primary purposes:
> (1) A sinking fund for annual expenses such as MF's and property taxes & insurance;
> (2) A slush fund for fun-stuff like travel and other projects; and
> ...




Yes. We do this.


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## geekette (Mar 28, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> See- I keep telling people- there are things about managing money that I do not get.



Don't sell yourself short.  I don't think it's reasonable to have a grasp on every detail and loophole.  You know the main normal stuff, and plenty of depth in those.

Taking advantage of obscure sections in tax code is not managing money.  Not sure how to define it, other than...   opportunistic digging ?  best I can do at the moment, but you likely won't find a chapter about mining the tax code for opportunities in any money management book.

So here you are on a public forum and come to find out about something you didn't know.  That just shows you are open to new info and out there seeking it.  For me it's the best part of the internet -- finding out stuff I would never have thought to look for.  

I had same experience here at work this morning - uncovered a giant cache of data, perfect to fit requirements of something I had to deliver in early Feb... but didn't know who to ask the right questions of so no one pointed me to it.  Then it falls in my lap.  Too late to help, but, now I know for Next Time.

You don't know what you don't know, none of us do, but you have a firm grasp on quite more than the basics.  Frankly, you wouldn't be talking about retirement if you had no money skills.  You're just quibbling now over how when to do what with each stash of savings, take SS, etc.  You are farther ahead than you think.


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## VacationForever (Mar 28, 2017)

I think if you compartmentalize each bucket, you will find retirement funding / planning manageable.  For example, for SS, drawing at 62 will breakeven at 80.  If you need the money then draw sooner, unless you have other buckets of money to spend from. Family history of longevity comes into play, just as consideration of age of spouse. The higher SS payout and older spouse, should draw on SS later, as that amount affects the survival benefit amount.  In my case, my spouse is older than me, he will draw at 70 and I at 62.  My amount does not affect his survival benefit but his amount affects mine.  I hope this helps, if you are not already thinking along this line.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 28, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> I think if you compartmentalize each bucket, you will find retirement funding / planning manageable.  For example, for SS, drawing at 62 will breakeven at 80.  If you need the money then draw sooner, unless you have other buckets of money to spend from. Family history of longevity comes into play, just as consideration of age of spouse. The higher SS payout and older spouse, should draw on SS later, as that amount affects the survival benefit amount.  In my case, my spouse is older than me, he will draw at 70 and I at 62.  My amount does not affect his survival benefit but his amount affects mine.  I hope this helps, if you are not already thinking along this line.




Thanks. I guess for me it is that if my husband delays his SS, can we/should we then live off our savings?  Because my full retirement age is 66 and he is 2 years older. That is the kind of thing I have to figure out and not sure how. I can't stop working until age 65 because I need Medicare. Hopefully- although I hate it- I will still be working and have access to health insurance, though I do not know how I will last working until then. I would love to stop working at 62, believe me. I really can't ask my husband to work longer- he wants to retire and he deserves it also. 66 is long enough. Oye! Of course, who knows what will even happen to our jobs and then, if we lose them prematurely, we will be in a lurch.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 28, 2017)

geekette said:


> Don't sell yourself short.  I don't think it's reasonable to have a grasp on every detail and loophole.  You know the main normal stuff, and plenty of depth in those.
> 
> Taking advantage of obscure sections in tax code is not managing money.  Not sure how to define it, other than...   opportunistic digging ?  best I can do at the moment, but you likely won't find a chapter about mining the tax code for opportunities in any money management book.
> 
> ...




Yes. Right. And I am an over thinker/analyzer for sure! The mental gymnastics my brain goes through- omg! Way overactive. No wonder I barely sleep! LOL!


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## VacationForever (Mar 28, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. I guess for me it is that if my husband delays his SS, can we/should we then live off our savings?  Because my full retirement age is 66 and he is 2 years older. That is the kind of thing I have to figure out and not sure how. I can't stop working until age 65 because I need Medicare. Hopefully- although I hate it- I will still be working and have access to health insurance, though I do not know how I will last working until then. I would love to stop working at 62, believe me. I really can't ask my husband to work longer- he wants to retire and he deserves it also. 66 is long enough. Oye! Of course, who knows what will even happen to our jobs and then, if we lose them prematurely, we will be in a lurch.


2 things for you to consider...  SS grows at 8 percent per year when delayed and you have to weigh that against depleting your savings.  If your husband stops at 66...and you also stop working... under Obamacare - who knows if and when the rules will be changed, you can get premium subsidy and cost sharing subsidy as long as your household income is low.  There is no consideration for assets, that is how Obamacare is written.  So if he does not start SS and you do not work, guess what, your health insurance becomes very cheap.  You can PM me if you want to know more.  Alot of wanna be retirees ended up retiring early because of Obamacare.


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## DancingWaters (Mar 28, 2017)

Mpumillia
I understand this retirement decision taking over your life.  I feel we were the same way for years. We finally went to 3 different financial planners and they reassured us that we had enough money to retire. That was extremely helpful to my husband as he needed the affirmation. My DH last day is Friday and he is extremely excited.  Keep searching out answers but try to forget about it sometimes and enjoy life


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## WinniWoman (Mar 29, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> Mpumillia
> I understand this retirement decision taking over your life.  I feel we were the same way for years. We finally went to 3 different financial planners and they reassured us that we had enough money to retire. That was extremely helpful to my husband as he needed the affirmation. My DH last day is Friday and he is extremely excited.  Keep searching out answers but try to forget about it sometimes and enjoy life



Thanks. Yes. I am looking forward to a time when I can "own" each day instead of dreading them. 3 different financial planners? That must have cost a lot of money!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> 2 things for you to consider...  SS grows at 8 percent per year when delayed and you have to weigh that against depleting your savings.  If your husband stops at 66...and you also stop working... under Obamacare - who knows if and when the rules will be changed, you can get premium subsidy and cost sharing subsidy as long as your household income is low.  There is no consideration for assets, that is how Obamacare is written.  So if he does not start SS and you do not work, guess what, your health insurance becomes very cheap.  You can PM me if you want to know more.  Alot of wanna be retirees ended up retiring early because of Obamacare.



Yes. Thanks. Good point. Of course, my husband has three years to go yet. Who knows what will happen with Obamacare and health insurance by then?


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## Brett (Mar 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> 2 things for you to consider...  SS grows at 8 percent per year when delayed and you have to weigh that against depleting your savings.  If your husband stops at 66...and you also stop working... under Obamacare - who knows if and when the rules will be changed, you can get premium subsidy and cost sharing subsidy as long as your household income is low.  There is no consideration for assets, that is how Obamacare is written.  So if he does not start SS and you do not work, guess what, your health insurance becomes very cheap.  You can PM me if you want to know more.  Alot of wanna be retirees ended up retiring early because of Obamacare.



I'm not sure that 'lots' of people retired early because of Obamacare (is it that *great*?)  but you definitely need a pension or healthy balances in investments or a deferred account like 401K to retire early.  I hope Medicare is still around !


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## VacationForever (Mar 29, 2017)

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/27/theyre-millionaires-and-they-get-obamacare-subsidies.html

In case you want to read more about getting Obamacare subsidies and cost sharing when retiring early.


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## DancingWaters (Mar 29, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. Yes. I am looking forward to a time when I can "own" each day instead of dreading them. 3 different financial planners? That must have cost a lot of money!



Actually they all met with us on two different occasions and none of them charged us a penny   I would say each one spent a total of 5 hours with us. Of course their goal was to get our business and 1 certainly did. It was very time consuming but super beneficial to us, so it was worth all the time.


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## Luanne (Mar 29, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> Actually they all met with us on two different occasions and none of them charged us a penny   I would say each one spent a total of 5 hours with us. Of course their goal was to get our business and 1 certainly did. It was very time consuming but super beneficial to us, so it was worth all the time.


My husband and I met with a financial planner years ago.  I don't know where, or how, we found them, but after meeting with them it turned out all they wanted to do was to sell us their products.  We were out of there pronto, and hadn't paid them anything.

A few years before we retired we decided we needed to get serious and find a financial advisor.  I went with a recommendation from a friend. She and her husband had used them and were very pleased.  Dh and I met with them, liked them, and they've been our advisors for quite a few years now.  They get paid based on a percentage of what is in our portfolio. So we figure they are going to do their best for us, since that's how they make their money.  There is a small yearly fee for the IRA management (I think) as well.

Working with the financial advisors helped us realize that we really could retire.  I'd never pictured what retirement would look like, or when we'd be able to do it.  Dh was 66 when he retired and I was 62.  I could have worked longer, but I was pretty tired of my job and we had decided to move.  Also I don't think I could have stood it if dh was retired, and enjoying himself, and I wasn't.


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## Brett (Mar 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/27/theyre-millionaires-and-they-get-obamacare-subsidies.html
> In case you want to read more about getting Obamacare subsidies and cost sharing when retiring early.



right, another article saying millionaires are getting "Obamacare subsidies"

but is it real news  ........or *not* so real news?

(hint:  I'm knowledgeable about qualifications under the "Affordable Care Act")


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## VacationForever (Mar 29, 2017)

Brett said:


> right, another article saying millionaires are getting "Obamacare subsidies"
> 
> but is it real news  ........or *not* so real news?
> 
> (hint:  I'm knowledgeable about qualifications under the "Affordable Care Act")


Absolutely real....

Nothing fake about it.

You can read the details in the link.  It works.

Hint: I very likely know more about the qualifications and laws around it more than 99 percent of the population...


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## Brett (Mar 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Absolutely real....
> 
> Nothing fake about it.
> You can read the details in the link.  It works.
> Hint: I very likely know more about the qualifications and laws around it more than 99 percent of the population...



wow, multi-millionaires right here on TUG getting 'Obama subsidies" ... *congratz 4 U*
yes, I read the article ..  And I only believe the part about "land" rich and "income" poor
which I suppose can apply to farmers who have good accountants
how's that corn and soybean crop ?


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## VacationForever (Mar 29, 2017)

Brett said:


> wow, multi-millionaires right here on TUG getting 'Obama subsidies" ... *congratz 4 U*
> yes, I read the article ..  And I only believe the part about "land" rich and "income" poor
> which I suppose can apply to farmers who have good accountants
> how's that corn and soybean crop ?


Corn and soybean crops are doing very well...


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## PamMo (Mar 29, 2017)

Yes, millionaires definitely qualify for subsidies. It all depends on what your INCOME is. For a married couple filing jointly, subsidies are available with income in the $70K range. (That includes all income, including tax-advantaged income like U.S. treasuries.) It used to be cheaper buying a catastrophic health plan for retirees who weren't eligible for Medicare. Now, at least in Missouri, buying the cheapest Bronze plan for a couple is $15K/yr, with a $6K per person deductible. If you want to retire early, you need to build that into your budget!


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## rapmarks (Mar 29, 2017)

My sister lost her job, she is 62, and not having any luck finding any kind of job.  She is on cobra for now, and it costs a lot.  Does she take a chance and go on the ACA


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WinniWoman (Mar 29, 2017)

DancingWaters said:


> Actually they all met with us on two different occasions and none of them charged us a penny   I would say each one spent a total of 5 hours with us. Of course their goal was to get our business and 1 certainly did. It was very time consuming but super beneficial to us, so it was worth all the time.



Wow! 5 hours for free? I never heard of such a thing!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 29, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> My sister lost her job, she is 62, and not having any luck finding any kind of job.  She is on cobra for now, and it costs a lot.  Does she take a chance and go on the ACA
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



If I were her, I certainly would. Cobra is crazy expensive.


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## VacationForever (Mar 29, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> My sister lost her job, she is 62, and not having any luck finding any kind of job.  She is on cobra for now, and it costs a lot.  Does she take a chance and go on the ACA
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The main question is what is the household income, if there is little to no other income, then going on ACA is a no brainer.  The problem is once on COBRA, she cannot switch to ACA.  I believe the government fixed this issue partially a couple of years ago by allowing someone on COBRA to switch to ACA during open enrollment.  She should not have gone on COBRA when she first lost her job, and instead should have gone straight to ACA.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 29, 2017)

Luanne said:


> My husband and I met with a financial planner years ago.  I don't know where, or how, we found them, but after meeting with them it turned out all they wanted to do was to sell us their products.  We were out of there pronto, and hadn't paid them anything.
> 
> A few years before we retired we decided we needed to get serious and find a financial advisor.  I went with a recommendation from a friend. She and her husband had used them and were very pleased.  Dh and I met with them, liked them, and they've been our advisors for quite a few years now.  They get paid based on a percentage of what is in our portfolio. So we figure they are going to do their best for us, since that's how they make their money.  There is a small yearly fee for the IRA management (I think) as well.
> 
> Working with the financial advisors helped us realize that we really could retire.  I'd never pictured what retirement would look like, or when we'd be able to do it.  Dh was 66 when he retired and I was 62.  I could have worked longer, but I was pretty tired of my job and we had decided to move.  Also I don't think I could have stood it if dh was retired, and enjoying himself, and I wasn't.




See, the thing is I do not want to turn our portfolio over to someone to manage. I don't see the point of that in our case. Why do I have to turn in all my accounts just for the planner to put them in another company? I think I just would want someone to look at what I have and make suggestions and I would do the rest of the work and keep our mutual fund company and so forth. I don't see why I would have to turn it all over to the FA - other than even though he is not making a commission on selling products, he has to be getting something from TD Ameritrade for moving all my money there. 

If anything I would rather pay by the hour and have him determine if and when we can retire and how much we can draw on our savings and when to take SS, etc. Then I would take over from there. Maybe meet with him yearly for review.

But no way to I want to pay $10,000 per year and turn my money over. Nope.


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## Luanne (Mar 29, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> See, the thing is I do not want to turn our portfolio over to someone to manage. I don't see the point of that in our case. Why do I have to turn in all my accounts just for the planner to put them in another company? I think I just would want someone to look at what I have and make suggestions and I would do the rest of the work and keep our mutual fund company and so forth. I don't see why I would have to turn it all over to the FA - other than even though he is not making a commission on selling products, he has to be getting something from TD Ameritrade for moving all my money there.
> 
> If anything I would rather pay by the hour and have him determine if and when we can retire and how much we can draw on our savings and when to take SS, etc. Then I would take over from there. Maybe meet with him yearly for review.
> 
> But no way to I want to pay $10,000 per year and turn my money over. Nope.


Where did you get the idea that I pay $10,000 a year?  I pay a percentage based on my portfolio. My annual IRA maintenance fee is $40.00. Maybe if I had the savvy, and desire, to follow the markets I could do it myself, but I don't.  I'm not sure what you meant about TD Ameritrade either.

It does sound like you would be better off finding someone who will consult with you on a fee based system.


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## bogey21 (Mar 29, 2017)

An alternative to Cobra for those needing "Bridge Insurance" can be Short Term (30 to 360 day) policies written by Golden Rule.  They have been writing this type of transition policy for years and are now owned by United Healthcare.  There are negatives with the policies such as pre-existing conditions are not covered; policies are non-renewable (although you can apply for a successor policy); benefits are capped at $1 million, etc.  But if you are not entitled to large ObamaCare subsidies, they can be way less costly than Cobra and are worth a look.  Like anything else read up on the details before you buy.

George


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## VacationForever (Mar 29, 2017)

Luanne said:


> Where did you get the idea that I pay $10,000 a year?  I pay a percentage based on my portfolio. My annual IRA maintenance fee is $40.00. Maybe if I had the savvy, and desire, to follow the markets I could do it myself, but I don't.  I'm not sure what you meant about TD Ameritrade either.
> 
> It does sound like you would be better off finding someone who will consult with you on a fee based system.


Mary Ann was referring to the FA / CFP whom she met, his fees (10k per yr) and his wanting her to move her funds to Ameritrade.


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## Luanne (Mar 29, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Mary Ann was referring to the FA / CFP whom she met, his fees (10k per yr) and his wanting her to move her funds to Ameritrade.


Since she quoted my post with her response I thought she was referring to what I'd said.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 30, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> See, the thing is I do not want to turn our portfolio over to someone to manage. I don't see the point of that in our case. Why do I have to turn in all my accounts just for the planner to put them in another company? I think I just would want someone to look at what I have and make suggestions and I would do the rest of the work and keep our mutual fund company and so forth. I don't see why I would have to turn it all over to the FA - other than even though he is not making a commission on selling products, he has to be getting something from TD Ameritrade for moving all my money there.
> 
> If anything I would rather pay by the hour and have him determine if and when we can retire and how much we can draw on our savings and when to take SS, etc. Then I would take over from there. Maybe meet with him yearly for review.
> 
> But no way to I want to pay $10,000 per year and turn my money over. Nope.



Sounds like you're a great candidate for fee-based advisors.  Also sounds like you are already considering it.  
As long as you can keep on top of it, don't mind doing that, and are of sound mind, why not go that route?


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## WinniWoman (Mar 30, 2017)

Luanne said:


> Where did you get the idea that I pay $10,000 a year?  I pay a percentage based on my portfolio. My annual IRA maintenance fee is $40.00. Maybe if I had the savvy, and desire, to follow the markets I could do it myself, but I don't.  I'm not sure what you meant about TD Ameritrade either.
> 
> It does sound like you would be better off finding someone who will consult with you on a fee based system.




No not you paying $10,000! LOL! The guy I interviewed said based on our assets that is what he charges- a percentage- and that would be his fee. But that includes our house and also a small pension lump sum that he says we can't really count on since it is a private one. And- he said he would have our money put into TD Ameritrade. Sorry- I though maybe you read my previous post which is way up there.

PS I don't pay any fees for our IRA- it is with a big mutual fund company and they actually provide a FA for me free of charge in terms of asset allocation and so on.Only thing is I am more conservative than he is, so some things I decide not to do. But he did make some other reasonable suggestions and I followed through with them.  They also have an online calculator that I use, but it contradicts some of what the FA says, although he uses it as well.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 30, 2017)

MuranoJo said:


> Sounds like you're a great candidate for fee-based advisors.  Also sounds like you are already considering it.
> As long as you can keep on top of it, don't mind doing that, and are of sound mind, why not go that route?



Right. Well- this guy is fee based- he has three plans. One that is a flat fee of $500. Essentially you have a question and you meet with him and that's it.

The second is by the hour-more involved- $200-$300 per hour.

And- the third is the one with ongoing active management. The fee- based on a percentage of our assets (which includes our house)- in our case- he says $10,000- is set for two years and if our assets go up the fee goes up. If they go down, the fee goes down.

But he doesn't "technically" sell any investments, though he would put our money in TD Ameritrade, which we don't like that idea.

This link describes his plans:

http://greatpathfp.com/services

After spending an hour with me on the phone, he thought the third one was the best choice for our situation. But- $10,000- oye!


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2017)

Mary Ann, he is ridiculously expensive.  The wealth management company that we use would do everything in the right column - as frequently as we wish to meet etc, except we do not need them to do so as we are very savvy in terms of everything else.  We only need them to manage our investible assets, based on our level of risk and types of investments.  The advantage is that the instruments within each of the funds are balanced regularly.  We pay .8 percent on some of the managed funds.  There are notes that we bought as part of the management, based on their recommendation, that are not subject to management fees.  We probably end up paying like .6 percent of investments.  They also introduced Long Term care options that we have not been aware of, which are very suitable for us.


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## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2017)

Thanks for the information about cobra vs ACA.  My sisters last day was feb 6.   At that time, no one knew what form ACA  would take.  She is single, so right now there is no household income.  When she worked she didn't make much.    The bank where she worked got bought out, the new bank kept 8 out of 100 in her department.  They were all young people.   


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## elaine (Mar 30, 2017)

Mary Ann, I don't see any of those options addressing  your concerns about ins, SS, etc. I also suggest you sign up for some seminars, maybe at the library, community center, church, etc., use online resources, etc. My Mom has a similar money manager. She personally knows him and he is doing a decent job for her and it makes her more comfortable. But, I had her pull out some of her $ and just put into Vanguard on her own---with no extra annual fee. Also, the ONLY charge should be on assets managed, not total wealth (so house and assets elsewhere should not be included). The best thing, IMHO, would be to join an online community like this with others who have just retired and pick their brains. They will likely have many ideas and trial and error stories, just like on TUG.
Again, no one can guarantee you have enough $. The 1st thing is a budget of fixed expenses. After that, assume a 3% (low) return, with a decreasing asset amount of how much your fixed expenses are. How long does your anticipated $ last? The other stuff is where you put that $ to get over 3% return. I am sure there are SS calculators telling scenarios of taking SS at 62, 65, etc. The ins. thing is a wild card, as who knows what will happen in the next year, much less 3 years.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> Thanks for the information about cobra vs ACA.  My sisters last day was feb 6.   At that time, no one knew what form ACA  would take.  She is single, so right now there is no household income.  When she worked she didn't make much.    The bank where she worked got bought out, the new bank kept 8 out of 100 in her department.  They were all young people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


For a start, ACA will not change in 2017 and 2018 for sure...  with little income, she would fall under Medicaid, which means $0 premium - ACA does not look at assets.  For a single making $17K a year, her premium for silver plan would have been around $200 per month, with $5 copay, max deductible of $200, max out of pocket of $850 per year, due to cost sharing subsidy.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Right. Well- this guy is fee based- he has three plans. One that is a flat fee of $500. Essentially you have a question and you meet with him and that's it.
> 
> The second is by the hour-more involved- $200-$300 per hour.
> 
> ...



Whoa, flag on the play -- he includes YOUR HOUSE as an asset he gets to suck off of?   RUN FAR AWAY.  This is a drainage system, not financial planning or management, except for his retirement.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 30, 2017)

geekette said:


> Whoa, flag on the play -- he includes YOUR HOUSE as an asset he gets to suck off of?   RUN FAR AWAY.  This is a drainage system, not financial planning or management, except for his retirement.



Exactly. He factors the fee for the third option off your assets- net worth- not just your financial accounts.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Exactly. He factors the fee for the third option off your assets- net worth- not just your financial accounts.


Holy crap, I chose the wrong career!!!

I would be asking him if he was going to be paying for the remodelling.  That's the only way he'd a get a piece.  I would then point out that my house pays Me nothing, why would it pay him?

This is why FA's get a bad rap = attempts like this to push too far to try to fleece folks that don't know it shouldn't be like this.  

I am simply appalled.  And a bit heartsick for the people that he does have as clients.


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## rapmarks (Mar 30, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> For a start, ACA will not change in 2017 and 2018 for sure...  with little income, she would fall under Medicaid, which means $0 premium - ACA does not look at assets.  For a single making $17K a year, her premium for silver plan would have been around $200 per month, with $5 copay, max deductible of $200, max out of pocket of $850 per year, due to cost sharing subsidy.



Does Medicaid look at assets?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> Does Medicaid look at assets?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No...not for ACA healthcare.  ACA ONLY looks at income.

Medicaid for above 65, for purpose of long term care, i.e., nursing home, does look at assets.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 31, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Right. Well- this guy is fee based- he has three plans. One that is a flat fee of $500. Essentially you have a question and you meet with him and that's it.
> 
> The second is by the hour-more involved- $200-$300 per hour.
> 
> ...



(First, I just noticed Luanne also recommended fee-based further upstream--sorry 'bout that, Luanne.)  Anyway, yeah, I agree with VacationForever, your 3rd guy is way too expensive, way.  And why they'd include the value of your home in the fee base, I have no idea. The second is more in line with what I'd expect--a couple hundred a session.  Don't like the idea of TD_A either.  
Have you checked out the Early Retirement Forum as a couple of us suggested?


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## WinniWoman (Mar 31, 2017)

MuranoJo said:


> (First, I just noticed Luanne also recommended fee-based further upstream--sorry 'bout that, Luanne.)  Anyway, yeah, I agree with VacationForever, your 3rd guy is way too expensive, way.  And why they'd include the value of your home in the fee base, I have no idea. The second is more in line with what I'd expect--a couple hundred a session.  Don't like the idea of TD_A either.
> Have you checked out the Early Retirement Forum as a couple of us suggested?




I have been on that sight before, yes. But I just haven't had the extra time to recently. On my list.


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## Brett (Mar 31, 2017)

geekette said:


> Holy crap, I chose the wrong career!!!
> I would be asking him if he was going to be paying for the remodelling.  That's the only way he'd a get a piece.  I would then point out that my house pays Me nothing, why would it pay him?
> This is why FA's get a bad rap = attempts like this to push too far to try to fleece folks that don't know it shouldn't be like this.
> I am simply appalled.  And a bit heartsick for the people that he does have as clients.



yeah, that's sounds crazy.  run, don't walk from that "Certified Financial Analyst"




PamMo said:


> Yes, millionaires definitely qualify for subsidies. It all depends on what your INCOME is. For a married couple filing jointly, subsidies are available with income in the $70K range. (That includes all income, including tax-advantaged income like U.S. treasuries.) It used to be cheaper buying a catastrophic health plan for retirees who weren't eligible for Medicare. Now, at least in Missouri, buying the cheapest Bronze plan for a couple is $15K/yr, with a $6K per person deductible. If you want to retire early, you need to build that into your budget!



all these millionaires quitting their jobs and retiring just to get the "Obamacare subsidies".    Who woulda thunk it ..... *if it's true*


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## Talent312 (Mar 31, 2017)

Brett said:


> All these millionaires quitting their jobs and retiring just to get the "Obamacare subsidies." Who woulda thunk it... if it's true.



If these millionaires didn't have a decent health plan at work, more power to 'em...
I know a guy who ended retirement & got his old job back, just so he could get off ACA and back on his employer's group plan.

.


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## geekette (Apr 1, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> If these millionaires didn't have a decent health plan at work, more power to 'em...
> I know a guy who ended retirement & got his old job back, just so he could get off ACA and back on his employer's group plan.
> 
> .



Putting aside that ACA is a law and not an insurance plan to get off of, no way I would quit retirement.  I have considered retiring as soon as possible and finding PT job with bennies.  Mostly to keep contributing to Roth, but employer ins is generally much better than going it alone.  I haven't looked at what trade groups, AARP, local groups, etc., are doing but I'd investigate what I could get through there vs work.  
Luckily, I have more than 5 years for the dust to settle on what the deal is gonna be.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 1, 2017)

Brett said:


> all these millionaires quitting their jobs and retiring just to get the "Obamacare subsidies".    Who woulda thunk it ..... *if it's true*



Actually, from what I've read over the years on Early Retirement Forum, ACA definitely was a factor in people taking early retirement.
It allowed them to bridge the gap between early retirement and SS--even though they had substantial investments.  There are ways to manage your assets (income) such that you'd qualify for subsidies, even though you technically are a millionaire.   I don't know the details and didn't care as I have subsidized early retirement insurance from my past employer, and for that I'm grateful.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 1, 2017)

Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday.

Pretty exciting and scary at the same time.  I have worked for paycheck since I was 14 years old (made $1.15/hr scooping ice cream - because if I wanted money I had to work - no allowance from my parents, and we were far from being poor).  Going to be weird not working for a paycheck.  I didn't leave because of stress, or being overworked, or bad management (etc.) - just time to retire on my terms (color myself fortunate).

My company has a nice retirement plan for those 60+ (w/ 5 years of service) where we can stay on their insurance plan until Medicare.  We still have to pay for it - not cheap, but as they are self-insured it is cheaper/better than ACA. So that helps relive stress of the unknown situation going forward with health care plans (or lack of...).  Also can stay on Dental, Eye, and Legal Assist plan. They also give $1000 per year of employment towards Health Care Plan.

I set a financial retirement goal about 5 years ago, that hopefully would coincide with turning 60 (it did).  Also helped that we have been saving/investing 30% of our income for decades that was helped with a generous 401k plan and company matching.

I used various retirement calculators to check my scenarios, and met with a Wealth Management/Retirement advisor to confirm that our Spend was in line with our Portfolio. They did, which helped with the confidence level (stress) of giving retirement notice.

Now... ready to start the next stage in my life - whatever that may be?
Exciting... now we can use our TS weeks fully, and the LMR forum


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## VacationForever (Apr 1, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday.
> 
> Pretty exciting and scary at the same time.  I have worked for paycheck since I was 14 years old (made $1.15/hr scooping ice cream - because if I wanted money I had to work - no allowance from my parents, and we were far from being poor).  Going to be weird not working for a paycheck.  I didn't leave because of stress, or being overworked, or bad management (etc.) - just time to retire on my terms (color myself fortunate).
> 
> ...


Congrats!  I retired last year at 53...had planned to retire at 62.  But my husband said he had run out of patience to work and we were retiring...   I did alot of planning for the 2 of us.  Wealth management Financial Advisor assured us that we are just fine to never work again, and complimented on how we have structured our income payout.  We have no pension and we are able to live like how we have lived before retirement, which constitutes alot of travelling and seeing the world.  Enjoy your retirement.  Good to do so before age slows us down.


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## Talent312 (Apr 1, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday... Pretty exciting and scary at the same time...



Now that I have 27 days to go, I'm also having some trepidation about what lies of the other side of the mirror. My concern is whether the powers-that-be will make this a smooth transition, or if there'll be a hiccup somewhere that will require phone calls. I worked off some nervous energy by mowing the lawn.

I also plan to continue my employer-coverage as a retiree, but with single coverage. So, we set up DW with Medicare (Part B), Medigap and drug plan. One addition to the checklist: Cancel her Rx refills under my plan.  

.


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## PamMo (Apr 2, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday.
> 
> Pretty exciting and scary at the same time. ..



Congrats, David (and Robin)! We made the leap almost 18 months ago, and haven't had the time to look back - we're having too much fun. We ran the numbers for several years, met with advisors, took classes, worked on our projected spending, made personal life goals for retirement, etc. We knew we wanted to take extended trips and have more time with kids/grandkids (who live thousands of miles in opposite directions from us), but giving up a great job and steady income was still a little terrifying. It all came down to one day, DH said he was ready to give notice to his employer, and I jumped onboard. The best thing we did was to take off on a grand adventure for the first three months. While wandering through the markets and temples in Vietnam with our grandkids, we absolutely knew we made the right decision! (We could never have been gone that long while we were still working.) We continue to check off and add more items to our bucket list. We just bought a minivan (OMG - I bought a MINIVAN!!!!!!) so we can take our grandkids on car trips to explore the U.S.A.  I count myself as one _extremely_ grateful and fortunate person to be able to do this. May you enjoy planning and living your retirement years!


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 14, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday.
> 
> Pretty exciting and scary at the same time.  I have worked for paycheck since I was 14 years old (made $1.15/hr scooping ice cream - because if I wanted money I had to work - no allowance from my parents, and we were far from being poor).  Going to be weird not working for a paycheck.  I didn't leave because of stress, or being overworked, or bad management (etc.) - just time to retire on my terms (color myself fortunate).
> 
> ...


 Some Basic Medicare information...

Part D prescription drug plans and Part C Medicare Advantage Plans are two totally different things. Part D is a stand alone for drugs while the member is still in traditional Medicare. Medicare Advantage, known as Part C, plans provide their members with coverage that is considered atleast equal to what is offered in traditional Medicare(Part A, PartB and Part D). However, Medicare Advantage plans can be and are often restricted by networks and geograhic locations. With MA plans the member will have a Maximum Out of Pocket which resets on Jan 1 of each year, a per day charge for hospitalization ($395 for days 1-4), will have co-pays and co-insurance up to the MOOP, and may have drug and hospital deductibles. Normally, MA plans will include some "additional" benefits DVH, otc discounts, silver sneakers etc.. It is rare that I see a MA plan on the individual market worth having. Through an employer or union, maybe.

Every Medicare eligible individual has Part A(we paid into while working). If you have paid in enough quarters, then you will be offered Part B(which has a premium $134, for those turning 65 in 2017 and this does not include any IRMA adjustments, which can also effect you Part D or MA premium). Around three months out from your 65th B-day you will receive your Medicare ID card in the mail, if you are already drawing social security. If you are not already drawing Social Security, you need to contact Medicare and notify them that you are not drawing ss as of yet and need your Medicare card(should be done 3-6 months before your 65th B-Day). Also, if you are not receiving ss you will have to pay the monthly charge to ss $134, once you start receiving ss it will be auto withheld from your ss before it is deposited into your account.

Medicare Supplement Insurance is in addition to Medicare. A member will have the following Part A, Part B, Part D and a Medicare Supplement. With this you virtually have walk away insurance that is not limited to networks, or geographic regions. Some plans will pay for emergency travel back into the US if injured outside of the US. The most popular plans sold are Plan F, Plan G, and Plan N. Plan F being the most comprehensive all Medicare approved deductibles and co-insurance is covered member has no out of pocket expense for physician or hospitalization. Plan G is identical to plan F except Plan G does not cover the annual Part B deductible(2017 is $183) Plan G is normally 30-40 less monthly than Plan F and historically Plan G has seen lower annual rate increases, Plan G normally is more valuable than Plan F considering all factors. Also, beginning January 1, 2020 no new Plan F's or HDF's can be sold, so the risk pool will be limited by members who are getting older, expect greater annual increases. Plan N, does not cover the part B deductible (2017 is $183), member pays a $20 PCP co-pay, $50 specialist co-pay and Plan N does not cover what is known as Medicare Excess charges. Medicare Supplements are standardized so any company's Plan F, Plan G, Plan N has no additional benefits than any other company's Plan F, Plan G, Plan N. This is, in most circumstances, buy the letter plan you want at the lowest premium available. In just about every state except FLA AARP has the highest priced plan for Members at any age. Normally, you can find a plan 80-90 less monthly than AARP, so unless you just want to give an insurance company close to $1000 do not buy an AARP Medicare Supplement.

No health questions are asked, in some cases 6 months prior to your 65th B-day month up to 6 months after. If you did not start Part B at age 65 then your no health questions asked for Medicare Supplement Insurance is up to 6 months after your Part B effective date. Anyone can change Medicare Supplements at anytime during the year. The annual election period does not matter when it comes to Medicare Supplements. AEP restricts the enrolling and changing of plans Part D prescription drugs and Part C Medicare Advantage plans only.

Self plug, I am licensed in 46 states. Medicare, under age 65 healthcare, and small group(up to 300 members)... if anyone has questions or needs help specifically with Medicare, please message me


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 14, 2017)

I have been (was) trying to figure out Medicare for my MIL (83yr). She has Medicare Supplement Plan J as a MediGap plan (I think that is correct term). She has never had Plan D - and the penalty for not signing up is huge if my calculations are correct. Luckily, she doesn't use expensive meds and has some type of prescription plan (AARP?) that covers most costs (so far).  The problem is that is she gets Part D she would have to give up Plan J, but as she doesn't travel outside of the country - Plan J has worked out great (and inexpensive!).

MediGap Plan J is no longer offered by MediCare and I can see why they have been trying to get her to switch - cost for her Plan J (SF Bay Area, CA) is ~$3600 per year, and she just had 2 major surgeries (lung lobe removal, and plates/screws put in broken ankle) - beyond the Plan J premium - there has been no out of pocket cost to her, and that included multiple hospital night stays in a private room. (!) 
Wow - wouldn't it be great if there was somehow Medicare for all?


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## geekette (Apr 14, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... after being fortunate to have worked  for 26 years for a great company (consistently on Forbes 'best places to work' list) - I gave my retirement notice yesterday.
> 
> Pretty exciting and scary at the same time.  ..
> 
> ...


BIG congrats!!!!


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 14, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> I have been (was) trying to figure out Medicare for my MIL (83yr). She has Medicare Supplement Plan J as a MediGap plan (I think that is correct term). She has never had Plan D - and the penalty for not signing up is huge if my calculations are correct. Luckily, she doesn't use expensive meds and has some type of prescription plan (AARP?) that covers most costs (so far).  The problem is that is she gets Part D she would have to give up Plan J, but as she doesn't travel outside of the country - Plan J has worked out great (and inexpensive!).
> 
> MediGap Plan J is no longer offered by MediCare and I can see why they have been trying to get her to switch - cost for her Plan J (SF Bay Area, CA) is ~$3600 per year, and she just had 2 major surgeries (lung lobe removal, and plates/screws put in broken ankle) - beyond the Plan J premium - there has been no out of pocket cost to her, and that included multiple hospital night stays in a private room. (!)
> Wow - wouldn't it be great if there was somehow Medicare for all?



I am assuming AARP provides MIL her Plan J.


Only difference in Plan J and plan F is, Plan J has a small prescription benefit but doesn't count as "credible" drug coverage. Depending on the state, and what she receives from SS and other income, if her total income is at or less than 18,090 annually she would qualify for what is known as a LIS waiver. No penalty added to Part D plan. My math has her penalty at 51.84 added to a Part D premium. The PDP program began Jan 1 2006. I subtracted 2018-2006= 12 years x 12 months= 144 months x .36(2017 penalty multiplier)= 52.00 penalty when rounded. 

Whoever told you that you couldn't have Plan J and a PDP gave you horrible information. All you have to do is call AARP and ask them to remove the prescription coverage from the plan J and then add the PDP but only do this during AEP, Oct 15- Dec 7th. Unless she qualifies for the waiver. 

Follow this link and you can see what she has now, input her medicines and Medicare will tell you the plans available to her and show you the premium, you have to add the penalty. https://www.medicare.gov/find-a-plan/questions/home.aspx. You will need her Medicare card and prescription list.

Also, the ONLY thing I can think of where AARP has an advantage, they will allow a member to move to a different plan without evidence of insurability. AARP is rolling out their Plan G, may already have where you guys are. Just call them up and ask what her Plan F or Plan G rate would be if you moved. If I am a betting man it would be a substantial savings even when figuring the PDP penalty.

Any related Medicare question for you or any friends, please message me... here or Facebook


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## bogey21 (Apr 14, 2017)

Info from Campbell Vaughn looks to be accurate and comprehensive.  My two cents worth is this -  I had the AARP Medicare Advantage Plan for about 4 months but didn't like being locked into a Network.  If something bad happens to me I want to be able to search the nation my the best alternative.  So I switched back to Regular Medicare and Part B, plus a Part D and a High Deductible Plan F.  The Advantage Plan was definitely cheaper but I felt limited my choices.

George


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 14, 2017)

bogey21 said:


> Info from Campbell Vaughn looks to be accurate and comprehensive.  My two cents worth is this -  I had the AARP Medicare Advantage Plan for about 4 months but didn't like being locked into a Network.  If something bad happens to me I want to be able to search the nation my the best alternative.  So I switched back to Regular Medicare and Part B, plus a Part D and a High Deductible Plan F.  The Advantage Plan was definitely cheaper but I felt limited my choices.
> 
> George


I have an insured in Michigan who was overly analytical when we were going over Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement differences. He was healthy at the time at did not want to spend the extra income on a Medicare Supplement. He had around 1.2 million saved in various accounts for retirement. He went with the MA and sometime after he turned 68, lung cancer, his cancer doc was in network with the MA but the facility the doc came to was not, so, he ended up spending between 600-700k for treatments and medicines that the MA denied. I ALWAYS recommend the supplement but at the end of the day it is the consumers choice. Just know that when you are in a MA, a private insurance company has the right to DENY coverage, even if a provider says it is necessary. With traditional Medicare, unless it some experimental or new treatment that Medicare hasn't scaled yet, if a provider says you need a service, you get it and traditional Medicare pays it. If a provider does a treatment that is new or experimental and does not get Medicare's approval first the doc has to eat the charges.

Medicare Advantage, makes you the insured, the 1st dollar payor. You go to the provider, you pay to see the doc.

Traditional Medicare, Medicare is the 1st payor. You go to the provider, provide your Red/White/Blue card, you see the doc, they bill Medicare, then they bill you.


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## Talent312 (Apr 14, 2017)

DW elected to go with Traditional Medicare for Parts A+B, and...
Medigap Plan F (Florida BC/BS) + Medicare Part D (Humana-Walmart).
_She now has all three ID cards.
_
HR says that my last paycheck (4/28) pays for coverage thru May.
And if I want state retiree health insurance (which I intend to take)...
That I should sign up for it on my last work day (2 weeks hence).

Except for that, and surrender of my office laptop, I'm good to go.
_I hope I remember to wipe all my personal files and e-mails._

.


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 14, 2017)

Talent312 said:


> DW elected to go with Traditional Medicare for Parts A+B, and...
> Medigap Plan F (Florida BC/BS) + Medicare Part D (Humana-Walmart).
> _She now has all three ID cards.
> _
> ...


If you are under 65 that is absolutely correct. If you are turning 65 then there is more to done.

You and your wife be on the lookout for the Mutual of Omaha release, which is coming up in FLA. Rates are beyond awesome and they will give a married discount.


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## John Cummings (Apr 14, 2017)

Campbell Vaughn said:


> ... a per day charge for hospitalization ($395 for days 1-4), will have co-pays and co-insurance up to the MOOP, and may have drug and hospital deductibles.



I have a MA plan and I don't pay anything for hospitalization. I have been in the hospital 3 times in the last 2 years ( 5 days each time ) and it didn't cost me a dime. I also do not have any co-pays nor deductibles. I have Health Net Gold Select plan. I also do not pay any premiums except for the standard $112.00 for Medicare Part B. What is available depends on where you live. Southern California is very good for MA plans.


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 15, 2017)

John Cummings said:


> I have a MA plan and I don't pay anything for hospitalization. I have been in the hospital 3 times in the last 2 years ( 5 days each time ) and it didn't cost me a dime. I also do not have any co-pays nor deductibles. I have Health Net Gold Select plan. I also do not pay any premiums except for the standard $112.00 for Medicare Part B. What is available depends on where you live. Southern California is very good for MA plans.


California, South Florida, New York have strong MA networks with benefit rich plans... yes those options are available depending on where you live.


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## Talent312 (Apr 15, 2017)

Campbell Vaughn said:


> If you are under 65 that is absolutely correct. If you are turning 65 then there is more to done.



I won't be Medicare-eligible for three years... 
The state retiree plan is the employee's plan, but much less subsidized.
Instead of paying $30/mo, I'll be paying $550/mo (w- a $150 subsidy).


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 15, 2017)

My wife is a teacher, I help nearly all the teachers in our hometown even though I get pd zero for that, they end up referring non-SHBP friends to me.

There is always a retiring worker or a spouse where one is Medicare eligible and one is not. Between the BOE, SHBP, BCBS, and UHC... something always goes sideways.


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## Talent312 (Apr 15, 2017)

I spent the evening reviewing retiree benefit options & procedures. I have to deal with 2 different agencies -- the Division of Group Insurance (for my coverage) and the Division of Retirement (for my subsidy). The instruction packet is 7 pages long, plus 4 pages of forms. This is like work.

.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 15, 2017)

@Campbell Vaughn - thanks for the MediCare info for MIL. I will need to investigate further.  Compared to our insurance - and living in SF area - $3600 seems like a bargain.


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## Campbell Vaughn (Apr 15, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> @Campbell Vaughn - thanks for the MediCare info for MIL. I will need to investigate further.  Compared to our insurance - and living in SF area - $3600 seems like a bargain.


No problem. All you guys are helping me understand this TS thing... if you have any question about Medicare just shoot me a message, will be glad to answer or find out


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