# [2011] pacific monarch filed bankruptcy!



## chexchy

I am a Pacific Monarch owner for quite a while.  We got it from developer for $9000.  We go there 3-4 times a year.  My children love LV.  Anyhow, I just an email from I don’t know whom saying that Pacific Monarch is filling for bankruptcy and they offer to help us get ridge of timeshare and get all of our money back.  How does it affect us?  Will we get our money back- all of it?  Are we losing our ownership?  I am so confused about the whole timeshare thing.  Any advise or opinion is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Chexchy


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## RX8

chexchy said:


> I am a Pacific Monarch owner for quite a while.  We got it from developer for $9000.  We go there 3-4 times a year.  My children love LV.  Anyhow, I just an email from I don’t know whom saying that Pacific Monarch is filling for bankruptcy and they offer to help us get ridge of timeshare and get all of our money back.  How does it affect us?  Will we get our money back- all of it?  Are we losing our ownership?  I am so confused about the whole timeshare thing.  Any advise or opinion is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Chexchy




Sounds like a scammer taking advantage of the BK filing to fill their pockets with good people's money.  They will do this by making promises that they have no intentions of keeping.


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## rhonda

chexchy said:


> How does it affect us?  Will we get our money back- all of it?  Are we losing our ownership?  I am so confused about the whole timeshare thing.  Any advise or opinion is greatly appreciated.


Your developer has been bought by Diamond Resorts International (DRI).  Part of the agreement was that your developer declare BK.  I suggest you read and get involved in the existing thread found: here.

Good luck to you!


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## dougp26364

chexchy said:


> I am a Pacific Monarch owner for quite a while.  We got it from developer for $9000.  We go there 3-4 times a year.  My children love LV.  Anyhow, I just an email from I don’t know whom saying that Pacific Monarch is filling for bankruptcy and they offer to help us get ridge of timeshare and get all of our money back.  How does it affect us?  Will we get our money back- all of it?  Are we losing our ownership?  I am so confused about the whole timeshare thing.  Any advise or opinion is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Chexchy



This is just a scammer trying to scare you out of your money. As mentioned above this was part of an agreement to allow the resort company to be sold to Diamond Resorts International. I suppose the bankruptcy in some way faciliates the sale of Pacific Monarch to DRI. 

Don't let these people scare you out of your ownership. Nothing will change other than DRI will become the management company and probably some changes in the signage at the resort from PM to DRI.


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## jbercu

chexchy said:


> I am a Pacific Monarch owner for quite a while.  We got it from developer for $9000.  We go there 3-4 times a year.  My children love LV.  Anyhow, I just an email from I don’t know whom saying that Pacific Monarch is filling for bankruptcy and they offer to help us get ridge of timeshare and get all of our money back.  How does it affect us?  Will we get our money back- all of it?  Are we losing our ownership?  I am so confused about the whole timeshare thing.  Any advise or opinion is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Chexchy





dougp26364 said:


> This is just a scammer trying to scare you out of your money. As mentioned above this was part of an agreement to allow the resort company to be sold to Diamond Resorts International. I suppose the bankruptcy in some way faciliates the sale of Pacific Monarch to DRI.



Chexchy:
The timeshare thing is confusing.  You came to the right place for advice.
When you purchased your Pacific Monarch you were scammed.  You gave your money to Pacific Monarch and got an ownership in Monarch Grand Vacation club.  Pacific Monarch held all the assets. Monarch vacation Club held all the liabilities.  Pacific Monarch filed for bankruptcy on October 24, 2011 with an agreement in place that Diamond Resorts International would take over the assets and be able to scam you some more but the agreement has not been approved by the court.  Monarch vacation club did not file for bankruptcy, since they have no assets and no liability, just people like you, owners, who have deep pockets and are willing to pay for vacations thinking they own something.  The California court has not approved the bankruptcy yet, and there are objections filed to the bankruptcy, none on your behalf.  The main assets in the bankruptcy filing are the scam headquarters building in Laguna Hills and the Cabo Azul resort.  Resorts Finance America, the main lender to Pacific Monarch is in on the deal with Diamond for ¼ billion dollars, but other banks that hold leans against the club properties are objecting to the deal.  They also want to get in on the deal.  Nobody is representing you and your interests in the bankruptcy. 
Since you have proven to be susceptible to being scammed, other scammers are, and will be coming after you.  You already got an email from one of them.  You will not get your money back.  There is nothing to get back.  If you enjoy a particular resort, and you see value in your vacation there, continue using the club just as you have done before.  Since you pay dues in advance for 2 years, try to use as many points up front because you never know when the next scam will come and try to separate you from your ownership.  If the Diamond deal gets approved, Diamond will try to scam you again, so be ready and hold on to your wallet.  Try to put a monetary value on your vacation experience so that you are ready to walk away when you have a choice to either walk away or pay up.
IMHO
Good Luck


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## Maple_Leaf

*Just don't throw good money after bad*



jbercu said:


> Chexchy:
> If the Diamond deal gets approved, Diamond will try to scam you again, so be ready and hold on to your wallet.



So true.  DRI has a history of taking over resorts and squeezing the owners for more money.  If you enjoy the vacations just continue to use your ownership as before.  When DRI comes to you with a deal that requires you to put more money in the pot, just say no.


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## APBA

*Horrible lies posted by JBERCU*

TO: JBERCU

How horrible that you would post lies about PMR and this original posters concern.  When you start using the word "scam" in your responses you show your true colors and a number of your statements are outright lies.  " 1/4 of a billion dollars"  Really?  You have no idea what you are talking about.

To the original poster.  With the exception of JBERCU's remark, I agree with all the others.  You are fine.  Example:  If you own a car and it's a Ford, and Ford filed BK today, it would not affect you in any way.  If you needed to buy  ahmmer and you went to Home Depot to get it and Home Depot was in BK, it would not affect your purchase of the hammer or the use of it.

Anybody else that might be viewing this, stay away from anyone that tells you that your PMR ownership is lost.  Not true, they (the resellers) just want your money and are trying to scare you.


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## dougp26364

jbercu said:


> Chexchy:
> The timeshare thing is confusing.  You came to the right place for advice.
> When you purchased your Pacific Monarch you were scammed.  You gave your money to Pacific Monarch and got an ownership in Monarch Grand Vacation club.  Pacific Monarch held all the assets. Monarch vacation Club held all the liabilities.  Pacific Monarch filed for bankruptcy on October 24, 2011 with an agreement in place that Diamond Resorts International would take over the assets and be able to scam you some more but the agreement has not been approved by the court.  Monarch vacation club did not file for bankruptcy, since they have no assets and no liability, just people like you, owners, who have deep pockets and are willing to pay for vacations thinking they own something.  The California court has not approved the bankruptcy yet, and there are objections filed to the bankruptcy, none on your behalf.  The main assets in the bankruptcy filing are the scam headquarters building in Laguna Hills and the Cabo Azul resort.  Resorts Finance America, the main lender to Pacific Monarch is in on the deal with Diamond for ¼ billion dollars, but other banks that hold leans against the club properties are objecting to the deal.  They also want to get in on the deal.  Nobody is representing you and your interests in the bankruptcy.
> Since you have proven to be susceptible to being scammed, other scammers are, and will be coming after you.  You already got an email from one of them.  You will not get your money back.  There is nothing to get back.  If you enjoy a particular resort, and you see value in your vacation there, continue using the club just as you have done before.  Since you pay dues in advance for 2 years, try to use as many points up front because you never know when the next scam will come and try to separate you from your ownership.  If the Diamond deal gets approved, Diamond will try to scam you again, so be ready and hold on to your wallet.  Try to put a monetary value on your vacation experience so that you are ready to walk away when you have a choice to either walk away or pay up.
> IMHO
> Good Luck



Apparently, not a happy timeshare owner or, someone who doesn't understand timeshare past the fact that developers, who have high overhead, charge a premium price for something that can be purchased on the resale market for less than $1,000. It's not a particularly helpful post to someone who already owns a timeshare and is concerned about their rights as an owner. Instead, it's more or less an op/ed piece.

This opinion would extend to all timeshare developers. They all have something to sell you. If they didn't sell retail, there would be no resale. 

DRI has it's product that is called THE Club. Owners with PM won't see any changes to their ownership. They will, of course, be offered the opportunity to join DRI's internal exchange system to expand their options for internal exchanges. Some will find this beneficial to their needs, others will be able to pass and not see anything taken away from them.

As an example I'll offer up our personal experience: 

We were owners with Polo Towers. Polo Towers was a stand alone resort that had no affiliation with any other system. Our options were to use our owned weeks or exchange through I.I. Not bad options for most people and we were getting effective usage from those weeks.

When DRI took over Sunterra, they offered us the option to join what use to be Sunoptions, now called THE Club. There was a price of admission. We could either purchase 5,000 additional points in the system or, pay a one time joiner fee of $2,995 (we paid the joiner fee). This allowed us access to internal exchanges through THE Club, gave us a corporate account with I.I., which some believe has stronger trade value and gave us options to use our timeshare we didn't have before like rental cars, American Airlines vouchers, use points to offset MF's, turned our fixed week into the equivilent of a floating week, allowed for a check in day any day of the week at most resorts, allowed for internal exchanges without any additional fee's, allowed for resort stays as few as 2 nights or as many nights as we had value to reserve et......

For us, the "scam" paid for itself in approx. 3 years. Now we're actaully spending LESS money and getting the same benefits PLUS a few more we didn't have to begin with. This worked for us, it wouldn't work for everyone. It largely depends on how someone uses the product they own. In our case, we were making a lot of exchanges, locking off our timeshares and even using the studio portions to reserve weeks but only staying 3 or 4 nights. When I did the cost comparison between what we had originally and what we were being offered, I was leaving money on the table under the orignal plan.

So, was I "scammed" out of an additional $2,995? According to you that answer would be yes. However, at this point in time, I've saved far more than the original buy in and I continued to save everytime I use THE Club to make exchanges.

Timeshare isn't a scam. It is a purchase. Many people feel scammed only because they made a very large purchase while they were uninformed. So is a scam when you spend $50,000 without thinking about what you buy or is it individual foolishness? 

A scam, IMHO, is when one seperates you from your money under false pretences and doesn't provide the services they sold you. Trying to scare PM owners by using the word bankruptcy and telling them their ownerships are worthless is a lie and it's a scam. Timeshare developers have a contract and are obligated to provide what they offer and, you have a cooling off period where, if you're smart, you read what you've signed and if you don't like it, you can cancel and get your money back. The people trying to scare PM owners will just take their money and never be heard from again, providing absolutely NO value but emptying their pocket books......all under the pretence of a bald face lie. Now that's a scam!


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## rhonda

Great post, dougp26364!  {applause}


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## dougp26364

rhonda said:


> Great post, dougp26364!  {applause}



It probably would have been quicker to say that buying a timeshare from a developer isn't a scam so much as an expensive purchase. You get what you pay for and what's guarenteed in the contract (not what a saleman tells you). It's up to the individual to READ the contract. 

Most buy the product without understanding it, then say they were "scammed." They weren't scammed, they were just foolish. 

A scam is when someone cheats you out of your money. Selling the Brooklyn Bridge is a scam. Buying ocean front property in the desert is a scam. Paying to have a star named after you is likely a scam. Pyramid schemes are scams. 

Buying a timeshare, or any major purchase for that matter, as an impulse buy and then not reading the contract is likely a foolish thing to do but it isn't a scam. You actually get what you pay for and you get what's in the contract.


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## jbercu

APBA said:


> TO: JBERCU
> 
> How horrible that you would post lies about PMR and this original posters concern.  When you start using the word "scam" in your responses you show your true colors and a number of your statements are outright lies.  " 1/4 of a billion dollars"  Really?  You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> To the original poster.  With the exception of JBERCU's remark, I agree with all the others.  You are fine.  Example:  If you own a car and it's a Ford, and Ford filed BK today, it would not affect you in any way.  If you needed to buy  ahmmer and you went to Home Depot to get it and Home Depot was in BK, it would not affect your purchase of the hammer or the use of it.
> 
> Anybody else that might be viewing this, stay away from anyone that tells you that your PMR ownership is lost.  Not true, they (the resellers) just want your money and are trying to scare you.




TUG is great.  It allows timeshare owners to exchange views that PMR would want to suppress at all cost.  I consider it a privilege, so much so, that I am a full paying member of TUG, unlike APBA – a guest with one post.  
The statements that you consider lies are based on two documents.  The first document is the Bankruptcy filing titled Chapter 11 Petition which can be downloaded at this site: 
http://www.chapter11library.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=203289 at a cost.
The second document is the Agreement/Bid that Diamond is making for Monarch.  The document is titled: ASSET PURCHASE AGREEMENT  and it can be viewed at:
http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/111028/Diamond-Resorts-Corp_8-K/d247292dex101.htm for free.
If my statements are lies, than the documents filed by Monarch and Diamond are lies. 
Wait! I just had an epiphany!   You are right.

The effect of the bankruptcy on the owners is tremendous.  In the first document (Chapter 11 Petition) you will learn that the largest creditor that is being stiffed in the bankruptcy is Grand Monarch Resorts homeowner association for $750,000.  If the court accepts the petition, the club members become liable for this amount and will be asked to make it up in a special assessment.  If you purchase a Ford or a Hummer, you don’t find out after you purchased that you owe more than you signed for. 
And yes, when you buy a unit from PMR, you are buying from a used car salesman.
IMHO


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## T_R_Oglodyte

jbercu said:


> The effect of the bankruptcy on the owners is tremendous.  In the first document (Chapter 11 Petition) you will learn that the largest creditor that is being stiffed in the bankruptcy is Grand Monarch Resorts homeowner association for $750,000.  If the court accepts the petition, the club members become liable for this amount and will be asked to make it up in a special assessment.  If you purchase a Ford or a Hummer, you don’t find out after you purchased that you owe more than you signed for.
> And yes, when you buy a unit from PMR, you are buying from a used car salesman.
> IMHO


Are you sure the HOA debts are not included in Disclosure Schedule 4.02?


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## chexchy

*thanks*

thank you very much for all of your advise.  i am glad that I can still use my timeshare.  I don't think I want to pay more to join the club.  However, if the HOA increase to a unaceptable to me, can I just back out or do I still have to pay for the new HOA?  I guess I just give it away in TUG.
thanks
Chexchy


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## jbercu

dougp26364 said:


> Apparently, not a happy timeshare owner or, someone who doesn't understand timeshare past the fact that developers, who have high overhead, charge a premium price for something that can be purchased on the resale market for less than $1,000. It's not a particularly helpful post to someone who already owns a timeshare and is concerned about their rights as an owner. Instead, it's more or less an op/ed piece



OOPS!  I think you jumped to the wrong conclusion.  I am a happy timeshare owner that owns neither Monarch nor Diamond.  You were however right that I am not an apologist for developers that have high overheads and pass on their high costs on to their customers by methodically coercing and misleading customers into purchasing dreams that are later shattered.  Regarding the helpfulness of my post, in my opinion your posts are very helpful to the members here, and I espier and with time hope to achieve the same level and quality of your posts.



dougp26364 said:


> This opinion would extend to all timeshare developers. They all have something to sell you. If they didn't sell retail, there would be no resale.



OOPS! That is not my opinion.  I kept my opinion to Monarch and Diamond.  I am sorry you felt that you needed to extend my opinion.  It may have been easier for you to reject my opinion if it was categorical.  But, it is not.  Some timeshare developers are good.  Sorry!



dougp26364 said:


> DRI has it's product that is called THE Club. Owners with PM won't see any changes to their ownership. They will, of course, be offered the opportunity to join DRI's internal exchange system to expand their options for internal exchanges. Some will find this beneficial to their needs, others will be able to pass and not see anything taken away from them. .



Past performance of Diamond with resorts that they have taken over indicates just the opposite, and tug is the best place to research what happens to owners that do not pay up to the diamond club.  Please note Villas the Santa fe, Poipu Point, Lake Tahoe Vacation Resorts and others.  In all cases legacy owners became second class.  When reviewing the agreement between Monarch and Diamond in paragraphs such as:
iv.	Wi-Fi to be available in all guest rooms for a fee and for a limited amount of time in the lobby without charge, consistent with Diamond Company policy. 
It becomes clear that changes are coming.  In other threads owners have commented on the inevitable need to bring up resorts to Diamond standard which always requires a special assessment.
Given the general information from TUG posts regarding Diamond, I do come to the conclusion that Monarch owners will experience a change.



dougp26364 said:


> Timeshare isn't a scam. It is a purchase. Many people feel scammed only because they made a very large purchase while they were uninformed. So is a scam when you spend $50,000 without thinking about what you buy or is it individual foolishness?



I agree, Timeshare is not a scam.  Buying points in a non-profit organization where the organization holds the deed in a trust, and a Board of Directors controlling the deeds is not a scam.  Having a for-profit company control the Board of Directors and sell the trust and control over the trust to another organization is a SCAM.
Read the Bankruptcy filling and the agreement between Monarch and Diamond, including the Airplane agreement, the Resort Management agreement, the Golden Parachute, the consulting contract, and the split of control of the Cabo Azul resort, and I think you will agree that is a scam.


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