# Vistana Upgrades



## hopetotimeshare (Apr 27, 2007)

Hello All!  We just got our letter from the Lakes Condo Assoc. regarding the villa refurbishments.  They enclosed a brochure with before and after pictures and the financial info.  The decor is going to be lovely!  Very classy I think.  And the assessment is not too bad, at least we don't think so...$1029.96 per week for a 2BR.  In 2 installments it's $514.98.  We are looking forward to the improvements.  Has anyone received info. for other areas of the resort?


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## Carl D (Apr 27, 2007)

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be pleased with an assessment for something that should be planned for in a yearly budget. General refurbishing should be budgeted for on a yearly basis, and not paid by special assessment.
Is there new management? If so I would give them a one time pass to get the resort in shape, but then I would look closely at next years budget to ensure money is being set aside for furture renovations. 
If it's not, than IMO there is a management problem.
I'm glad to hear that your resort is getting the attention it deserves. I've heard many good things about your resort in the past, and it's nice to see they are taking certain issues seriously.


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## hopetotimeshare (Apr 27, 2007)

Carl D said:


> Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be pleased with an assessment for something that should be planned for in a yearly budget.



I knew that was coming and I agree, however...we are new owners, excited about it, love DISNEY and we have the means to pay for these extras thank God.  Any regular vacation to Orlando/Disney would cost us ten times that.


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## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2007)

*DVC collects enough for sure*



hopetotimeshare said:


> I knew that was coming and I agree, however...we are new owners, excited about it, love DISNEY and we have the means to pay for these extras thank God.  Any regular vacation to Orlando/Disney would cost us ten times that.



Carl and I agree for the third time. This could get ugly!  It is an unfortunate reality that most timeshare resorts do not set aside enough money in reserves each year to pay for what is a known expense of upkeep and upgrades required. The main reason is that when the resorts are built and sold everything is nice and new and the management is most likely an arm of the developer who is looking to make sales. Keeping that number low helps make the sale appealing and when the buyers look around everything is new so what more would be needed? But that original developer investment is being used up in wear and aging from the day the resort opens. 

5 -10 years later the owners are complaining about the resort condition and the fees, which usually have barely kept up with inflation forget additional funds required to properly fund improvements. Again things are usually in worse shape if the developer has failed to move on and keeps on managing the complex.  Eventually the owners have to decide if they want a management change (not always easy to accomplish) and what they intend to do about the conditions.  Some opt to only spend the limited amounts they have which usually means a new couch, some carpet and maybe drapes to "freshen up" the units. It certainly helps but buys only a few years at best. If combined with a steady and meaningful increase in reserves collected the extra time can allow the funds to be gathered slowly over three-four years and then the full renovation really required can be done. But most spend the money they have, say things look better and do little to address the long term needs of the resort. 

Then the choice becomes let it degrade and only spend the limited funds they have or special assess to do it right.  And if they do special assess the owners had better be sure that it is a long term plan that includes collecting adequate reserves in the future and not a one shot hit that will be repeated in 7-10 years.  Remember the owners will pay for everything so do it on the cheap and pay in satisfaction and low exchange scores or do it right and collect the true cost of operation, maintenance and improvements from now on. It won't be cheap either way but a good plan will spread the costs out over many years which is the best way to handle it. 

I'm not at all surprised that Vistana is facing this issue. It happens to any resort but the larger the resort and the more amenities the larger the reserve needs to be but the less likely it is to have hands on Board members really looking out for the resort and the owners. I shudder to think what the costs will be to the owners at Westgate or OLCC or Vistana when the major amenities like multiple pools and water parks and clubhouses and more need replacing or major work. The developer isn't there to pay for it anymore in most cases and who knows what the agreements may be between the multiple Associations in the different sections of these mega resorts about how that work gets assessed to owners. 

On the other hand Vistana and the others are great resorts and the money spent to refurb them is well spent - if you use the time you own. If you purchased only to trade then the economics fall apart when the annual fees and assessment reaches $1300 or more every year.  I hope this is a wake up call to the management and owners of Vistana  - all sections - to review their reserve study (hopefully they have one - FL rquires it) and that they are funding at least 90% or more of the projected needs. Even that would be low as few costs go down over time so collecting a 110% of needs may be the better approach. If you dig in you'll find very few resorts that fund even at the 50% rate and thats a plan for trouble.


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## Carl D (Apr 27, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Carl and I agree for the third time. This could get ugly!



Holy smokes, John! 
Next thing you know you'll be looking to purchase DVC!


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 27, 2007)

John, I think independent resorts like your Cypress Pointe are the best values for the money.  Vistana owners are captives of Sheraton, never having the option of getting out from that management.  If I ever felt the temptation to buy in Orlando, I would not buy any of the big names, even as much as I love Marriott, *I would buy Cypress Pointe.*  The quality of the resort is very high, there is a board that actually runs everything and can hire/fire the mangement company, and the maintenance fees are reasonable as compared to Marriott, Vistana and many other big names in timeshare.  You have reason to love your resort.   

DVC has been keeping their resorts up for years without assessments.  The fees are not terribly high, either, considering what you get.  I like DVC so much.  But I can't see buying with all the great choices.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 27, 2007)

*Better To Be Lucky Than Good.*




rickandcindy23 said:


> I think independent resorts like your Cypress Pointe are the best values for the money.


I agree.  We didn't know that when we bought there (sight unseen), but it didn't take long to find out.  Mainly, we had some outstanding good luck -- bought initially right _after_ a big Special Assessment, resold right _before_ an even bigger Special Assessment, bought back in a 2nd time after the humongous special assessment was _over_.  And that was sheer luck -- no inside information, no special shrewdness on our part. 





rickandcindy23 said:


> *I would buy Cypress Pointe.*


Me too.  Not only that, I feel semi-bad in not giving _HopeToTimeshare_ a strong _buy_ recommendation for Cypress Pointe (Phase 1 or Phase 2, we love'm both) back when she initially joined TUG-BBS & was looking for members' recommendations. 

Much as I like our 2 Cypress Pointe sister timeshares, & strong as my pride of ownership in both of them is, for some reason I feel semi-reluctant to advise other in the market to go & do likewise.  That is, what we like & what works out great for us won't always automatically be such a good fit for other people.  Also, CP1 & CP2 are just mini-resorts compared to the Orlando biggies like Vistana, Vistana Villages, HGVC Sea World, HGVC International Drive, Orange Lake, the various WestGates, the various Marriotts, the various FairFields, & I don't know what-all -- not to mention all those RTU links in the Disney chain.  So for the most part, we just tell our own story, spell out what we did & why & how it worked out, etc., so that folks who see a good fit in that with their own situations can follow suit if they wish & others can run, not walk, to the nearest exit. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2007)

*Looking ahead things seem good*



AwayWeGo said:


> I agree.  We didn't know that when we bought there (sight unseen), but it didn't take long to find out.  Mainly, we had some outstanding good luck -- bought initially right _after_ a big Special Assessment, resold right _before_ an even bigger Special Assessment, bought back in a 2nd time after the humongous special assessment was _over_.  And that was sheer luck -- no inside information, no special shrewdness on our part. Me too.  Not only that, I feel semi-bad in not giving _HopeToTimeshare_ a strong _buy_ recommendation for Cypress Pointe (Phase 1 or Phase 2, we love'm both) back when she initially joined TUG-BBS & was looking for members' recommendations.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Alan - Do we need one more assessment just to catch you owning during one? (Now THAT is just kidding as we think the plans in place at CPR mean never having to mention that word seriously again!)  

I do want to make one other thing clear. Even the two assessments you mention - the first in 2001 that cleared up old debt, got operations into the black and helped us make that important management change and the second in 2004 that started the every 7 year unit renovation plan rolling (the one you call humongous) - combined didn't add up to what the Vistana assessment is. I know some owners may think that they were hit hard (hey, my wallet didn't feel too good about them either!) but it put our resort in a great position going forward. We have already paid that first big hit that so many 10-15 year old resorts are facing now or soon will. And we have raised fees with 100% funding levels for all anticipated needs not through 2010 or even 2020 but all the way to 2030 and beyond.  When we say no surprises we're really serious. Even the sudden, unanticipated need for the total roof replacement, which wasn't on the master plan until 2020, was able to be absorbed and still keep our fees including taxes under $800.  You just won't find many 3 bedroom, amenity filled, ranked resorts anywhere with fully funded budgets and fees that low. And especially not in Orlando. Fully funded budget being the key phrase. I'm of the opinion that going forward CPR fees will look very good compared to our many neighbors still struggling with that first round of upgrades and the need to fund them.


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## hopetotimeshare (Apr 27, 2007)

AwayWeGo said:


> Not only that, I feel semi-bad in not giving _HopeToTimeshare_ a strong _buy_ recommendation for Cypress Pointe (Phase 1 or Phase 2, we love'm both) back when she initially joined TUG-BBS & was looking for members' recommendations.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Thank you so much for taking my well being into consideration, I truly do appreciate that!  It is because of knowledgeable folks like you who share the same interests that I renewed my subscription to TUG recently!  

I know that I am naive about timesharing and probably could have made a better choice when we purchased, I did tons of research, I knew what the popular opinion on this resort was, I just went with my instincts. , but I am okay with my decision.  

I know people think I am nuts because I am excited about the assessment, but I am excited that they are going to improve on something that I already like.  I understand the concept of having enough funds reserved instead of assessing, but I was on a condo board and this stuff happens.  Perhaps people will speak up and get more involved with what goes on at their resort.  Basically, as I have said, it is SO expensive to take our 4 kids to Disney every year, we got a GREAT resale price, and so it may cost us a little more over the years, but again, it's okay.


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## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2007)

hopetotimeshare said:


> I know people think I am nuts because I am excited about the assessment,



Hopetotimeshare - Not at all. It's great that you understand and appreciate the fact that the assessment is going improve your resort and you plan to take advantage of it.  While in an ideal world the assessment would not be needed to accomplish that it is still a positive that plans are in place to make the necessary changes.  You did your homework, the resort is one you want to use. I think you're doing fine. Enjoy.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 27, 2007)

*Assessa-Sessa-Sessa.*




timeos2 said:


> Alan - Do we need one more assessment just to catch you owning during one?


That will not be necessary.  I actually paid a special assessment over across the street shortly after we "upgraded" to _The Grandevillas_.  Got to keep those elevators running, don't you know.  So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## iluvwdw (Apr 29, 2007)

I got the lovely brochure, too.  However, unlike the OP I am NOT thrilled about the assessment!  Like others have said, changes like these should have been budgeted for in the yearly maintenance fees.  It seems like they are COMPLETELY gutting all of the rooms and changing the decor to something more classic.  While it looks BEAUTIFUL, I didn't think the Lakes rooms were all that bad.  I have seen MUCH worse!  I own in both Lakes and Cascades and for some reason enjoy the Lakes much better.   Yes, the caribbean/floral theme was a bit overwhelming on the windows and the bed, but still...the rooms were nice enough and didn't really show that much wear and tear.  

Whatever...I am sure the Lakes will be GORGEOUS when they are done.


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## hopetotimeshare (Apr 29, 2007)

iluvwdw said:


> I got the lovely brochure, too.  However, unlike the OP I am NOT thrilled about the assessment!  Like others have said, changes like these should have been budgeted for in the yearly maintenance fees.  It seems like they are COMPLETELY gutting all of the rooms and changing the decor to something more classic.  While it looks BEAUTIFUL, I didn't think the Lakes rooms were all that bad.  I have seen MUCH worse!  I own in both Lakes and Cascades and for some reason enjoy the Lakes much better.   Yes, the caribbean/floral theme was a bit overwhelming on the windows and the bed, but still...the rooms were nice enough and didn't really show that much wear and tear.
> 
> Whatever...I am sure the Lakes will be GORGEOUS when they are done.



I didn't think the decor was all that bad either.  I did notice that the bathrooms could use some "freshening up".  Will they replace the plumbing fixtures, such as tubs, showers, sinks, etc?  

I am not happy to have to pay. And I totally agree that they should have budgeted for this upgrade but hey, life is too short to worry about it. I consider us to be fortunate to have the ability to take these memorable vacations every year .  

And I also agree that they will look gorgeous when they are done, and I hope that the changes will take place throughout the resort so that it may regain it's gold crown status.


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## iluvwdw (Apr 29, 2007)

hopetotimeshare said:


> I didn't think the decor was all that bad either.  I did notice that the bathrooms could use some "freshening up".  Will they replace the plumbing fixtures, such as tubs, showers, sinks, etc?
> 
> I am not happy to have to pay. And I totally agree that they should have budgeted for this upgrade but hey, life is too short to worry about it. I consider us to be fortunate to have the ability to take these memorable vacations every year .
> 
> And I also agree that they will look gorgeous when they are done, and I hope that the changes will take place throughout the resort so that it may regain it's gold crown status.



I wonder if they will replace EVERYTHING in the villa.  It kinds makes sense to...since they are doing a complete overhaul, why not make it a COMPLETE change, so everything sort of matches??

You are right about being able to take great vacations every year!  I can't wait to see it when it is done...maybe the rooms will look similar to Vistana Villages rooms?!  Those rooms are gorgeous!


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## gcole (Apr 30, 2007)

hopetotimeshare said:


> Thank you so much for taking my well being into consideration, I truly do appreciate that!  It is because of knowledgeable folks like you who share the same interests that I renewed my subscription to TUG recently!
> 
> I know that I am naive about timesharing and probably could have made a better choice when we purchased, I did tons of research, I knew what the popular opinion on this resort was, I just went with my instincts. , but I am okay with my decision.
> 
> I know people think I am nuts because I am excited about the assessment, but I am excited that they are going to improve on something that I already like.  I understand the concept of having enough funds reserved instead of assessing, but I was on a condo board and this stuff happens.  Perhaps people will speak up and get more involved with what goes on at their resort.  Basically, as I have said, it is SO expensive to take our 4 kids to Disney every year, we got a GREAT resale price, and so it may cost us a little more over the years, but again, it's okay.



I am also a Lakes owner. This refurb looks to be a complete remodel (cabnets, counter tops, all furniture, window coverings ect). I would think that budgeting would just be for up keep. While I am not happy to pay, I am happy that they are working to upgrade the entire resort (courts, spa's...). Lakes and Cascades trade through RCI and II but the resort recently lost the RCI gold crown status. Without that, our trades will be useless.. count


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## hopetotimeshare (Apr 30, 2007)

So are there resorts that get a refurb and it doesn't cost the owners anything extra?


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## gjw007 (Apr 30, 2007)

hopetotimeshare said:


> So are there resorts that get a refurb and it doesn't cost the owners anything extra?



All refurbishing costs the owner, the only question is when it is paid.  It can be done by keeping the annual maintenance costs low but when a refurbishing comes along, then there is a need for a special assessment.  The West Village at OLCC is also undergoing a refurbishing.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no special assessment to the owners of those units.  In my opinion, the best way is to include a small amount in each annual maintenance fees to cover these refurbishing as they are foreseeable expenses.  It could be argued that they aren't done as often as they should be but that is a separate question.


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## Carl D (Apr 30, 2007)

gcole said:


> I would think that budgeting would just be for up keep.


I can't speak for all timeshares, but DVC's budget is broken into 2 sections:
- Operating Budget (day to day expenses)
- Capital Reserves (roof, siding, refurbishments etc..)

One way or another, planned interior refurbishment should be budgeted for annually.
The same can be said for a new roof, siding, chlorine for the pool, and so forth. 

In my opinion, the type of stuff that I would expect a special assessment for are acts of God. Hurricanes, Grandma pressing the wrong pedal and driving into the lobby, meteors falling from space, etc.. 
Even a portion of those items can often be absorbed into the budget after insurance is paid.


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## Iwant2gonow (May 12, 2007)

hopetotimeshare said:


> Hello All!  We just got our letter from the Lakes Condo Assoc. regarding the villa refurbishments.  They enclosed a brochure with before and after pictures and the financial info. And the assessment is not too bad, at least we don't think so...$1029.96 per week for a 2BR.  In 2 installments it's $514.98.  We are looking forward to the improvements.  Has anyone received info. for other areas of the resort?


Has anyone received the actual bill for the first installment?
I posted elsewhere that I received an empty envelope a couple of weeks after receiving the Lakes photo brochure. I do not know if the assessment bill was supposed to be in there.
Hopetotimeshare...did you receive anything from Lakes in a separate mailing after the the photo brochure arrived?


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## gjw007 (May 12, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> I shudder to think what the costs will be to the owners at Westgate or OLCC or Vistana when the major amenities like multiple pools and water parks and clubhouses and more need replacing or major work. The developer isn't there to pay for it anymore in most cases and who knows what the agreements may be between the multiple Associations in the different sections of these mega resorts about how that work gets assessed to owners.


John;

This is an aside to the Vistana discussion but the special assessment for Vistana is interesting to read as it easily could be any resort.  As posted elsewhere, the West Village pool and clubhouse at OLCC is to undergo major renovations starting in October and is expected last a year with a price tag of roughly $10 million.  I have not heard of any special assessment being raised for it as or for the renovations for the Golf Villas.  Of course, that announcement could be just around the corner.  As I stated earlier, a small portion of the annual maintenance fees should be set aside for items like these and not be surprised with a special assessment.  I wonder how many resorts have had special assessments and how well they have worked out.


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## bward (May 12, 2007)

*Have you Checked the Podcast?*

There's a new Starwood podcast up at Star Central which specifically talks about the Lakes re-do, why there is a special assessment, and what happens if an owner does not pay it. 

You can listen to it from the website, you don't need to hook up an i-pod or mp3 player to listen to it.

You can find it here:

https://www.mystarcentral.com/news/portal_multimedia.jsp?IM=enews_lakesrefurb_v1_i5_multimedia

bward


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## timeos2 (May 12, 2007)

*Yes, it can be any resort*



gjw007 said:


> John;
> 
> This is an aside to the Vistana discussion but the special assessment for Vistana is interesting to read as it easily could be any resort.  As posted elsewhere, the West Village pool and clubhouse at OLCC is to undergo major renovations starting in October and is expected last a year with a price tag of roughly $10 million.  I have not heard of any special assessment being raised for it as or for the renovations for the Golf Villas.  Of course, that announcement could be just around the corner.  As I stated earlier, a small portion of the annual maintenance fees should be set aside for items like these and not be surprised with a special assessment.  I wonder how many resorts have had special assessments and how well they have worked out.



I have no idea how many resorts have had special assessments but I'll wager its half or more. At Vistana there are at least three different Associations for different sections of the resort. They would handle their own areas and units for upgrades and fees. In fact some of the differences in the type of unit renovations being done are due to the fact that different Associations have more or less money available to do the work. The real wild card is any shared areas. How do those costs get distributed and who makes the decisions about the work?  Thats the type of most likely undefined area that can really lead to hard feelings or special assessments. What if some Associations in the group want all new common areas while others would rather simply replace them or remove them rather than pay the costs?  I doubt many have set aside even more reserve funds for those areas as they struggle to maintain just the owners buildings and units.  What seems so nice when new can be a real problem to maintain or replace after the developer money is gone.


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## hopetotimeshare (May 15, 2007)

Iwant2gonow said:


> Hopetotimeshare...did you receive anything from Lakes in a separate mailing after the the photo brochure arrived?



I haven't received any more info in the mail but I did check my account balance at mystarcentral and it reflects that there is a balance and the payment is due by 6/20/07.  

I am going to make my May 2008 reservations this week, does anyone know if the fees must be paid before they will my res.?

*I just called Vistana and they were able to tell me that the bills will be going out on May 21st, but was unsure about whether they will be due prior to making the res.  He said his assumption would be that they would not ask for payment unless the bills had already been mailed out. So since I am making my res. for the week of 5/17/08, they can't ask for money that they haven't officially billed owners for yet. Although we intend to get this paid ASAP to get it out of the way, I did not want to have to do it THIS week.


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## pointsjunkie (May 15, 2007)

don't forget to pay with amex *wood so you will get double starpoints.


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