# "Useless" College Degrees?



## heathpack (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi TUGgers.  I read this article, "Why I Let my Daughter Get a Useless Degree". I have an undergraduate degree in humanities with I don't think was useless, it was really instrumental in forming my mind.  
http://ideas.time.com/2014/01/16/why-i-let-my-daughter-get-a-useless-college-degree/

I thought it might be interesting to learn who here on TUG studied what- undergrad, grad or professional school, whether any/each degree is "useful" in their opinion, and what career then ended up with.

I'll start:
Undergraduate degree: English literature, emphasis on modern poetry.  Useful
Professional degree: Veterinary medicice.  Useful
Post professional training: Neurology/Neurosurgery residency.  Useful
Current career: Veterinary Neurologist/Neurosurgeon

For Mr. H
Undergraduate degree: Economics.  Not useful
Post-graduate training: US Navy flight schools.  Useful
Past career: US Navy pilot.  Currently househusband.

So who did what, was it useful, and where did it lead them?

H


----------



## AndySamuels (Jan 17, 2014)

I went straight to business school (undergraduate & graduate) and never looked back. I would have liked to study anthropology / sociology but realized that I would not have had any real career options. 

There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to college / university. What I would recommend is that people stay clear of online degrees that are not offered by brick & mortar institutions. 

You also have to ask yourself whether learning a trade is not a better investment for many rather than pursuing a college degree that will not provide ROI. :whoopie:


----------



## glypnirsgirl (Jan 17, 2014)

I have one of those so called "useless" degrees that I use every day --- and a useless minor to go along with it -

BS in economics with a minor in philosophy --- I use both of these every day of my professional life. I use the economic analysis to help my clients focus on what is going on with our general economy and to try to help them respond in a meaningful way. The philosophy minor, especially the classes in logic, helped me get through law school unscathed. I wish I had taken more accounting.

Graduate degree in law --- I have been employed as a lawyer (usually working for myself) for 34 years. 

I am an attorney. I have limited my practice to bankruptcy.

elaine


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 17, 2014)

When I read the title to this thread, I thought --- FINALLY, a thread about the over advertised internet colleges which are advertising non-stop on TV.

Rats - this is just the normal, "Will my kid get a job and be a contributing member of society?"

Okay, I too went to a very nice (and ranked) liberal arts college (small university, actually) and got a MATH degree without the "usual" teaching certificate. I got a great job because I was a female who had a computer course (actually a minor) -- back in those days -- I actually had EVERY THURSDAY afternoon for 2 months booked with a plane flight and job interview.

I did learn I did not want to work as DC contractor controlling secret government "space" things - met the team who were GREAT guys and wanted me (they had been interviewing a non-stop stream of "girls" - they felt I was the first truly qualified girl!).
I did learn I did not want to work for the major Pittsburg employer who wanted a girl, but only on the night shift (current "girl" after a year, was quitting - but she was fine, while she sat on midnights) - a-holes guys - just wanted a professional "girl" for headcount & dead end job (that they admitted to it being that).
I did learn that insurance companies paid 50% of what other companies paid (but they really liked me and bragged to the HR guy at a college recruiting session).
I learn I did not want to work for the IRS ( regional offices in big cities - was not my thing).

I took a job, had a career and still ended up in a room of 30 people of whom 27 others were pregnant & white females, 2 black males and myself (grad school in my future which they were going to pay for) who just sat there laughing to myself. 9 years and corporate America was still as stupid - needed to be a 2 pointer or white male to keep your job -- pregnant was NOT GOOD.

So, do I use my math degree? No. My graduate degree? No. 

I should have taken MORE psych courses - become a profiler. 

I think it is far better a student is happy, did very well in being a self-starter, learned to work in a team, can master the computer beyond Facebook and has MULTIPLE real life experiences in the real world. Perhaps, they nowadays should learn a foreign language.

My two younger sisters (6 & 10 years younger) both got Mechanical Engineering Degrees with HONORs from Duke & Lehigh U and initial jobs as engineers with IBM. I was just 10 years too early for acceptance in those types of programs (remember when Princeton & Lehigh were men only schools).


----------



## ronparise (Jan 17, 2014)

I have a nearly 50 year old BS in Biology, (so how useful is that) and I had more credits in Philosophy,  from a small liberal arts college. I spent 15 years in a somewhat related government job, (related to biology, not philosophy,  regulating water resources, but the rest of my working life in sales of financial products and realestate

My degree is and was useless in terms of a direct impact on income, but priceless in teaching me how to think

I used to think that liberal arts was the only way to go (ie, learn to think first, then pursue a career)....and in fact urged my daughter to follow a similar path, but my thinking has changed over the years. If I had to do it over I would  chose a trade school like medicine, or auto mechanics, or law or welding or engineering, first...then taken care of the real education when I had some money in my pocket


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 17, 2014)

Undergrad and Grad in Engineering with another Grad in Business. Very useful and kept me in the manner I grew accustomed to thru three careers.

Actually, my High School, my voracious reading back then and life in general taught me how to think and write while college taught me a profession. Not sure why one would need 4+ years of college and lots of bucks to learn how to think independently. In fact with the reported mind set of the non technical University  Faculty today, seems that theirs is a narrowly focus and closed vision on society. Wether that is factual or not I do not know. 

I advised my kids and now Grandkids to go to College to learn a "trade" like engineering, nursing, business, teaching, etc. and learn about life from people and independent learning. 

Cheers


----------



## Ridewithme38 (Jan 17, 2014)

I think the point should be made that, currently, all degrees are pretty much useless.  Jobs expect you to have college now, so a college degree is now treated like a high school diploma used to be in the work force.  They check to see if you have you bachelors and beyond that, unless you are beelining for a specific nitch job, medicine, education, accounting, Law it doesn't matter what your degree is in.

So I may have changed my own mind, while the DEGREE maybe useful, any major you take is useless.

I do find it interesting the the OP felt her degree in 'modern poetry' was more useful then a degree in economics.


----------



## elaine (Jan 17, 2014)

European history major, French minor--very useful for trips to Europe, LOL! Back 25+ years ago, I knew that if I didn't want to teach, I needed to go to law school, which I did and have been working at the SAME job in govt for 25 years (I thought I would stay 2 years). 
I will also say that Law is becoming useless unless you are highly motivated and go to a highly ranked law school. We have many interns who will either not be employed or not anywhere near the income level to support their student loans.
We have 3 teens and are definitely counseling them on pursuing their dreams--but that when they get out of college, they need to be employable. Elaine


----------



## sun&fun (Jan 17, 2014)

Undergraduate major: physical anthropology; minor: biology
I'd have to say not directly useful since I was never employable as an anthropologist 
Graduate: Library Science with specialty in Sci-tech information.
Very useful. I came to the profession as automation was transforming library operations and was in at the beginning as electronic information exploited the content. Very exciting at the time. Now libraries are no longer "places" but information hubs in the digital world.

That said, I've never second-guessed my undergraduate degree or my career choice. Never looked back after 25 year career working with some of the best colleagues in the world at the National Library of Medicine!


----------



## heathpack (Jan 17, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I do find it interesting the the OP felt her degree in 'modern poetry' was more useful then a degree in economics.



I think the difference there is not in the degree as much as the educational experience.  Mr. H was churned out of a medium university, just taking the classes he needed to.  He knew he was going to Air Officer Candidate School and just needed any bachelors degree.  He got one and didn't care what is was. He was not particularly engaged in the subject matter nor did his professors engage him.

I was in a very large department in a very large university, so it would seem like I'd get less personal attention.  But as soon as you zero in on something as narrow as modern poetry, you're pretty much going to be mentored by one professor.  You love the same thing, so you're going to mesh on a personal level. That leads to independent study courses one-on-one, honors courses, etc.  You can really get a lot out of it.

Poetry is a surprisingly useful thing in my current career. If you are really studying poetry from the point of view of a scholar, you are paying attention to every tiny detail- every syllable, every word sound, word order, rhythm, rhyme scheme, meaning, etc. You are really trying to understand every microscopic detail to understand the whole. I read books in high school of course and poetry too.  But I never really had my eyes opened into all that is really going on in a great poem, that took studying the subject with a poet.  The funny thing is how it has translated to so many other things in my life.  Like for example, organic chemistry- I had to take so many chemistry classes and I always said that chemistry is the poetry of the sciences. You have to know where every electron is in every molecule and how it will affect the adjacent molecule, two things next to each other become a seperate thing than each of those two things apart. It's the same in poetry with syllables and word sounds.  One of my favorite poets is so good- you think he has somehow messed up the rhythm of his poem, how could he make such a fundamental mistake?  Then you read the poem aloud and you realize the missing syllable is in the first sound of the next line, he did it on purpose because the words make more sense that way.  Brilliant!

Anyway, my current job is 100% about understanding what the symptoms I am seeing in an animal mean in regards to what part of the nervous system is affected. After you memorize the "wiring diagrams" of animals, it becomes a matter of listening to the owner's description of the symptoms, observing the individual weird things that animal is doing, recognizing patterns, lumping related things together, etc. Figure out what's important, notice everything but filter out the noise, decide where the problem is and run the right tests. The bottom line is you take 20-50 individual observations and see the meaning behind all those tiny parts. It's funny how I'm doing the same exact thing is essence for the past 27 years.  Sometimes it was called "studying poetry" and sometimes it is called "neurology," but really all along it has been the same thought process.

Anyway, that's how a degree is English Literature can be "useful".

H


----------



## Timeshare Von (Jan 17, 2014)

My undergrad degree was a BS in Psychology.  I suppose in terms of long term career outcomes, it was probably pretty useless.  From it, however, I did learn how to be a better student (I was unmotivated and uninspired in high school).

Later in my adult life (mid/late 30's) I pursued/obtained my MBA in order to remain competitive in my career field (retail management at the time) as my company of 10+years was continuing to go through corporate restructuring and job security was becoming a thing of the past.

It was useful in that I studied organizational development and corporate reengineering so as to better understand it.  It prepared me for what would become a 15 year career path in organizational development and reorganization in the non/not-for-profit sector.  (Long story on the transition from retail management to NFP's . . . )

Anyway, today I'm looking to hang up my corporate reengineering hat because my work in those types of jobs means I do my job and essentially work myself out of a job.  Since that became my career niche in 1996, I have been out of work (as in unemployed) after working for four different associations, for a total of 41 months.  The up side has been that those jobs pay very well and I've been able to save enough money for the unemployed lean times.  The down side is it gets tiresome looking for the next job and explaining why most of your positions were 2-4 years in length.

My next job will not be one with "reorganization" as a strategic goal. I am hoping to go into what will be a nice, comfortable position where I can make a difference without being expected to provide turnaround leadership or salvaging a sinking ship.


----------



## Joe33426 (Jan 17, 2014)

glypnirsgirl said:


> BS in economics with a minor in philosophy --- I use both of these every day of my professional life. I use the economic analysis to help my clients focus on what is going on with our general economy and to try to help them respond in a meaningful way. The philosophy minor, especially the classes in logic, helped me get through law school unscathed. *I wish I had taken more accounting.*
> 
> Graduate degree in law --- I have been employed as a lawyer (usually working for myself) for 34 years.
> 
> ...



Accounting has been good to me,

BS in accounting, MBA in accounting, & Ph. D in accounting

11 years of college, but now I'm a CPA and college professor

I think college is useful if you need it for the career you want


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 17, 2014)

Pretty much self-educated.

No degree. High school graduate. A couple of partial-year stabs at college that didn't agree with me. I was not a good student, though I have always read a lot, and my dad died when I was in the last year of H.S. There was no money and I wasn't going to get a scholarship. Not that I'm proud of it but that's the way it worked out.

I was kind of a 'gear head'. I liked mechanical stuff. Hated being cooped up in a classroom. I bugged out every chance I got to ski or ride motorcycles or fish or something other than sit in class. 

Back then a little thing called Vietnam presented itself to those of us without student deferments. The gummint wanted to send me there with an all-expense paid trip for 2 years, but I was so smart that I enlisted for 3 years instead. Instead of going right to the jungle, I spent 2 years living in Europe driving big green trucks (Army Engineers). In the end a tour of Vietnam was included. I helped build roads in the Saigon area.

After returning home, I apprenticed to the building trades and eventually had a small firm employing a half dozen guys. It put the roof over the family's head and food on the table. That lasted a decade or so. Medical necessity ended that chapter.

I still had a wanderlust, and went to work moving people's household goods. Over time the better money was in the beginnings of the computer industry. I moved a lot of large mainframe computers, and was in the beginning of the large trade show business. CES, COMDEX, SoftCon and a lot of other shows were just part of the lexicon. Las Vegas, Chicago, New York, Boston, Atlanta were my neighborhood. Eventually, computers shrunk. Nowadays, a little girl in brown shorts carries more computer power under one arm than we carried in several semi trailers.

Trucking deregulation came along and I went to work for a forward thinking smallish carrier that was set to grow. I advised manufacturers on their transition to such things as satellite communication, anti-lock brakes, digital fuel systems, nationwide single-state registration, paperless documentation and a number of other innovations. Since I clean up fairly well, and am often taken for a 'professor' rather than a truck driver, I competed for and was accepted to a public relations position representing the millions of commercial drivers on TV, radio, and made many personal appearances all over N. America. Eventually that little carrier became the world's largest refrigerated carrier. I amassed over 4 million miles over some 30 years without a single chargeable accident.

One thing trucking allows one to to is use the time to read and think. I used to tell people that I was a full time philosopher who used driving a truck to pay the bills.  

I can't say I'd recommend my path. It wasn't easy, and there have been a lot of people who have made more money more easily, but that was the way I did it. One benefit: no student loans.

The best advice I ever got: Live below your means, and save 10-15% of what you make.

I retired at 62 have been able to travel extensively- I guess the wanderlust never got satisfied. 

I am the 'househusband' and head chef now to my DW, who's undergraduate degree was in Home Ec, followed by a law degree. She has been in private (family) law practice for over 30 years, and as she says is "Sliding down the backside" of her career.

Jim


----------



## riverdees05 (Jan 17, 2014)

BS and MS in Engineering Management.  Worked great for me and played on my strong points in high school - math & science.  Worked various engineering and management jobs with a Fortune 500 Company, now retired and enjoying it.


----------



## geekette (Jan 17, 2014)

I never knew what I wanted to do when I grew up.  Picked a university and spent first year wondering what to pursue.  It was a top 10 biz school so that's what I chose. 

useful, incredibly so.  I understand a great deal about a company before I ever know anything about That company.  I can read and understand balance sheets, MSDS's, know why you might want FIFO vs JIT inventory, can spot ill-fated rebrandings ...

The case studies we did back then seem to still hang with me.  I was suited for it, still am, as I am a big believer in American Business and it is of huge benefit to understand so much of how things "generally work" in order to dig further to understand how My Company works, and was a major boon back in my consulting days.  

Saves time, too, as some folks have "no head for business" and many cohorts are simply tech types that will take orders from the biz side without Understanding, without partnering with the business to give them what they Need vs what they think they Want.  I have a better grasp on what I need to ask that maybe wasn't spelled out while the tech-only peeps just fill the order without seeking clarification.  No one wants to bring a contractor in to do a specific thing and then have to explain over and over how their process/core business works.  

My current role in IT didn't exist back in those college days so I would not have been able to target it and had no inclination that I might enjoy it.  But come to find out that I have been one of those few that can "speak both sides", biz and tech, to help the sides understand the other side.  

I fell into IT quite by accident by taking a crappy $6/hr word processing job during recession for what turned out to be a new small tech company when no one knew what 'a tech company' was here in the midwest.  I graduated at a bad time and simply had to exist on crappy jobs for a few years until job market opened up.  I did take interesting jobs, but none Were It until that fateful decision where I advanced very quickly and learned a ton.  7 years later I was an IT consultant when there were few.  

As geeks go, I'm personable and clean up well, look you in the eye and am unfailingly polite.  It's easy for me to hear the biz side desire and be able to say quickly Sure, that should be quick to implement or whoa, we need to talk about this one as there are ramifications.  

The degree does still open doors, but, software director here has no degree, never went to college, so maybe I could have ended up in this same place and never gone to school.  For some companies, they don't care where you've been, what can you contribute to our mission?  If my degree had been technical, I'd say it would have been worthless quickly as there was no demand and the march of time would have rendered it obsolete very quickly.  If you are not constantly learning, there is no role for you in IT.  degree quickly is Stale.  I could not have supported myself on Fortran, for example.

I am one that would tell the undecided to Go Get SOME degree and figure the rest out later unless you have a great opportunity NOW, without school.  All you really need is doors to open.  Try to take interesting jobs as the more unique the roles on your resume, the more they want to get you in the door to talk about it.  I was diverse before it was a good thing, many many times I heard, well, your resume was quite interesting and it seemed like you had a mix of skills we haven't seen before ...

I do not think any degree is worthless.


----------



## TUGBrian (Jan 17, 2014)

lol, I have a degree in economics


----------



## am1 (Jan 17, 2014)

Business Administration as an undergrad and went right into grad school at the same university for the same thing.


----------



## bogey21 (Jan 17, 2014)

My major was Accounting and my minor was Finance.  Both were useful as I progressed through my working career.  I also went to Law School for a year and found what I learned also of use.  Of most value was learning not to be in awe of lawyers!!  What is interesting are the various courses outside of my major and minor that I ended up taking during my trek through 7 universities as I pursued by Accounting/Finance degree.  I took things like California Real Estate, Texas History, Philosophy, History of the Theater, Spanish, Boxing, Geography, and Geology just to name a few.  Of course it took me 5 years of credits to get my 4 year degree but the exposure to other things made it worthwhile.

George


----------



## sjsharkie (Jan 17, 2014)

I believe there are good choices and bad choices for a degree.  College students need to look at what opportunities are out there and make a decision based on the work and sacrifice they are willing to put in to get there, as well as the probability that they will be able to attain the goal that they are seeking.

My nephew wanted to be a music major at one time.  That's great and all -- I'm not bashing folks wanting to go into the music field -- but I used to talk to him all the time about how realistic that he was going to obtain a paying job after college, and how hard he was willing to work to pursue that dream.  IMHO, it's a much harder road than going into say accounting.

Accounting has done well for me.  I wanted to be an English major, but I decided early on that this wasn't realistically going to give me the best opportunities career wise.  So I did an English minor instead.  It worked out for me -- I never did write that novel I wanted to, but I've got a great family that I can support on a solid income.  That's good enough for me.

-ryan


----------



## TUGBrian (Jan 17, 2014)

I will admit that in not one single job interview I attended, noone ever asked what my GPA was...or mentioned anything about my degree being in economics.

I believe for my situation, it mattered more that I had a degree at all, vs what it was in.

now of course had I been a valedictorian with a 4.0 in the field I actually was looking to get into...that might be different.

wonder if times have changed since the 90s!


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 17, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> No degree. High school graduate. Not that I'm proud of it but that's the way it worked out. ...



Me too.  In late August, 1977, I was notified that the Federal grant money for college was suspended just days before I was supposed to begin freshman year at Wentworth Institute for Architectural Engineering.

We had two choices while living at home - full-time student or employee.  So the next day I went to John Hancock, where my mom and three sisters worked, interviewed and got hired immediately.  Stayed there for ten years working up from health claims to health underwriting, during which time I met and married Don and supported him while he pursued Accounting and MST degrees after a stint in the navy.  I left JH a few years after getting married when we started having babies, stayed home a few years, then worked mother's hours at a local law office as an administrative assistant for almost ten years until we moved out of the city.

Then I fell into my dream job.    Going back to a skill that I learned as a kid from watching my mom, I've been working at home as a seamstress with a specialty in bridal/formal fashions ever since.  It's been great being able to pick and choose the work I'll take in.  It also was very nice being available throughout my kids' teen years, especially because Don's demanding career didn't allow him much leeway at all for the too-frequent changes in our family schedule.  Now both kids are grown and living their own lives, both married this past year.  And Don and I are looking forward to retirement a few years down the road.

It's strange how life takes twists and turns, isn't it?  I sometimes mourn the Architectural Engineering degree that I never earned, but I'm happy all the same with the life that replaced it.


----------



## mrmarty91 (Jan 17, 2014)

I received a BS in Accounting and an MBA with a concentration in Finance.  Would not have been hired for any of the jobs I had without the accounting degree and the MBA helped for three of them.  I also am a CPA which wouldn't have happened without the accounting degree.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

I have a 2 year Journalism Technology degree (1976!) The first job I got was an office job in home health care and it required 2 years of college in anything..

I never wanted a career- I wanted to be a Homemaker and dabble in writing when I felt like it! LOL! But, I didn't marry a rich man, so that degree helped me to earn a living throughout my life and, yes, I am still in healthcare, but as a marketing rep for a radiology group. I hate working-it gets in the way of my life- but, hey, how many people really love their jobs and would rather work than not?


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

Most degrees are not worthwhile for getting jobs. Obviously there are exceptions, like for being a doctor or nurse, etc. The most important thing is on the job training. Employers really should re-examine the need to for people to have college degrees,,,,

Our son has a 4 year degree in Communications and has a $12.50 per hour job that required a 4 year degree! Can't tell you what that degree cost us!


----------



## geekette (Jan 17, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> ... but, hey, how many people really love their jobs and would rather work than not?



I will start that count at 1.

Love what I do, never any desire to have kids or not work since I've been doing it since age 13.

We all get our fulfillment in different ways.  taking care of a house and family is not my idea of fulfillment. ymmv


----------



## elaine (Jan 17, 2014)

but, hey, how many people really love their jobs and would rather work than not?[/QUOTE]
I will be #2. I  still enjoy (most days) at my work in law (gov regulatory enforcement). I don't make a huge big firm salary, but I am not burned out after 25 years. I have been PT for 15 years. It has been a good balance with 3 kids--though we seem to always have a messy house--my 2014 resolution!


----------



## geekette (Jan 17, 2014)

sjsharkie said:


> I believe there are good choices and bad choices for a degree.  College students need to look at what opportunities are out there and make a decision based on the work and sacrifice they are willing to put in to get there, as well as the probability that they will be able to attain the goal that they are seeking.



I disagree.  Had I decided what to pursue based on current occupational whatever at the time I entered freshmen year, those jobs largely vanished while I studied so I would have been obsolete from the get go.  sad state of affairs.

I personally think that one should seek what is interesting to them without regard to current economic conditions.  What's in demand today is not at all guaranteed to be in demand in a few years.  Plus, why force yourself to learn and understand stuff that you have no interest in??  and pay for the privilege.

I fear a huge crop of terrible IT people coming because they think that's where the money is without regard to the hours, demands, sacrifices.  If it's not your passion and you find out you hate it, what a waste.   

No amount of money is worth daily misery toiling at something you hate (I have also had That Job).  Granted, I am a Pollyanna throwback, but following my gut vs whatever is said to be The Way To Go has gotten me great happiness and fulfillment.  Not everyone is a free spirit but I am thankful that I never buckled under to someone elses idea of what I should do.  

I think one should pursue their passion, if known, and maybe have a fall back plan.  The degree doesn't mean crap without marketable skills.

I will never crap on someone's dreams.  Wanna be a musician?  awesome, work hard, go where you can find work and keep practicing.  meanwhile, sure, have a fallback plan, but do not abandon your dreams and talents because someone else says there aren't opportunities.  I have made my own opportunities.

EDIT:  I do believe there are good and bad degree choices for A Person, but not generally.  There were people trying to push me into things I had no aptitude for and I am thankful that I did not listen to them.


----------



## DaveNV (Jan 17, 2014)

I graduated high school in 1971 in the upper third of my class (bright kid, lazy student) and I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. College seemed at the time like too much work and expense, and I had no driving interest in any career path. The military draft was rearing its ugly head toward me, I was desperate to get out of my parents' house, and I knew I had to make a choice.  

I opted to enlist in the Navy, feeling as though I'd have some control over how I spent my time. (Hey, I was 18 - what did I know?  ) I figured four years in the service would give me time to grow up some, I'd avoid being drafted into the Army, and I could earn GI Bill credit for going to college after my enlistment.  It all seemed like a good idea at the time.  And it was.

I was able to get into computers, a subject that captured my imagination.  I ended up spending 20 years in the Navy as a computer tech. I took all kinds of college-level courses related to business and computers, programming, and whatever, but I never got a formal degree, feeling like it wouldn't add anything to my skill set. (I was an early adopter of desktop-style computers - a friend and I built a fully-functional computer on my kitchen table in 1981.)

After my military career ended, I opened my own computer service and repair store, was wildly successful, and I sold it four years later.  I drifted some, kept my hand and head in the industry, and I worked a few jobs in various parts of computer technology.  Now I work in IT Tech Support for a very busy hospital.  After 42 years in it, the industry still fascinates me. I learn something new every single day, and I wouldn't have chosen a different way to spend my working life.  

So I guess, for me, a college degree wasn't the way to go.  I consider what I do as more of a trade school kind of path, since it was a lot of individual study, and on-the-job training. I don't think a formal degree program at the time would have given me the opportunities I've found in my life.

Dave


----------



## pjrose (Jan 17, 2014)

H:, I so agree with you on the "useless" degrees.  Every few weeks there's another article along those lines. I'm so annoyed at the equating of education with income.  

Me:
Small Liberal Arts College (Beloit)
Started with English, focus on linguistics
Contemplated Anthro
Took most of my classes with DH-to-be so ended up with more Soc than anything, hence ended with BA Eng/Soc.  I wanted to go to Law School, but 3 years seemed too long.  I spent 11 years getting my Ph.D. instead  

Grad school at Univ. New Hampshire in Soc, discovered and loved statistics (I know, I know, I'm weird), took tons of stats classes, discovered computers (huge mainframes with blinkie lights and tapes and punch cards) when a prof asked me to work on his analyses (I said "But I've never TOUCHED a computer!" and his response was "You're smart, you'll learn"), did tons of computer analyses, advising, problem-solving, etc, one-day doodled a cool number pattern  that I showed advisor, he said that was calculus and discovered I had never taken Calc and booted me over to the math dept. Completed MA in Soc, started teaching Soc and Stats, got invited to grad prog in Math but was offered fellowship in Mathematical Sociology at Cornell. 

Continued with Ph.D. in Math/Soc at Cornell, completed enough math classes for Math BS, then wavered between teaching Soc/Stat or academic computing, got job in academic computing at Cornell.

Offered various faculty posns teaching, but then took posn as Acad Computing Coord at Dickinson College.  Hated the stress/politics, offered better Acad Computing positions, but was burned out from all the meetings and budgets and long-range planning (how on earth do you write a long range budget proposal for campus computer needs 15 years in the future?) and switched to teaching Research Methods / Stats at Gettysburg College.  Non-tenure-track position unfortunately, so eventually moved over to intermittent teaching, some FT some PT, at Shippensburg University.  Now am happily semi-retired. 

ok, so....."useless" degrees in English and Soc.  BUT the strong liberal arts background taught me a lot about thinking, analyzing, supporting arguments, writing, doing research, and how supposedly separate subjects and issues are interrelated  - and these came from a wide variety of classes and some really great professors, not just my specific majors.  

I'm now starting a volunteer position as treasurer of a very large non-profit; I know nothing specific about accounting or being a treasurer, but I'm confident that I can learn, I'm logical, good with math, good with computers, present myself well in front of people and in writing.....so am not in the least afraid of it.  

I've never stopped learning, and consider myself a perpetual student. I still want to go to Law School. 

And PS, my "useless" degree was at the same college as DH's, and we wouldn't have met if we hadn't both gone there LOL!


----------



## geekette (Jan 17, 2014)

pjrose said:


> ...I'm so annoyed at the equating of education with income.  ...


+1

that and the emerging theme that one *must* pursue a high-paying career.  balderdash.  

I am lucky that my parents only wanted for me to be happy, instilled in me that there is no shame in hard work regardless of what value society currently places on it.  

Do Something You Love, the money will follow.


----------



## sjsharkie (Jan 17, 2014)

geekette said:


> I disagree.  Had I decided what to pursue based on current occupational whatever at the time I entered freshmen year, those jobs largely vanished while I studied so I would have been obsolete from the get go.  sad state of affairs.
> 
> I personally think that one should seek what is interesting to them without regard to current economic conditions.  What's in demand today is not at all guaranteed to be in demand in a few years.  Plus, why force yourself to learn and understand stuff that you have no interest in??  and pay for the privilege.



I agree we disagree.

My post never said to do something you had no interest in.  The point is that I think one needs to weigh a variety of factors including what are the current opportunities in the marketplace before diving head first into what is simply just the most interesting thing to them.  Most people have more than one interest from a career standpoint.

I have no issues with someone pursuing a music degree and career.  I just want them (in this case, my nephew) to understand what is likely to be reality on the other side.  Any smart, driven person can overcome having a "useless" degree or no degree for that matter -- but you'll likely have to work harder to find or make those opportunities for yourself.

-ryan


----------



## Icc5 (Jan 17, 2014)

*Degrees*

Had a job already working at a grocery store.  Went to a Junior College and got my 2 year degree in law enforcement then went on on a 4 year school.
Received a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Business Supervision.  Did they help me??????????????
I had already worked my way up to night shift supervisor and from there because of equal rights issues and push to promote minorities and women I had to wait to get promoted.  This happened several times as my industry was pushed to put more people in management.  Finally got my chance and 42 years later I'm retired.
Different times would equal different results but you have to deal with the hand you are dealt at the time.  Did my degrees help, no, not at all in fact in my case I think they hurt me.  I had one manager I worked for (I worked full time while going to school full time) told me he couldn't promote me because he didn't think my schedule at school would allow me the flexibility even though he scheduled me every shift you could imagine.  Missed 2 days in 42 years.
Bart


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 17, 2014)

*Everyone has a story, huh?*

Well, here's mine.  I was born to two (un)der educated parents.  My father dropped out of school in 9th grade, though I bet his "education" ended long before that.  He was barely able to read from what I could tell.  At 14, I helped him study for his GED.

Mom made it thru high school, but she wasn't in my life enough to really know if she was smart or not.  I've always been a quick learner (in most things anyway, maybe not chemistry or physics…), so I must've gotten it from somewhere.  

I have felt for some time somewhat inadequate around my friends who have grad school degrees, but then I realize, I did pretty well for where I came from, divorced parents, raised by an under educated, factory worker father.   I'm the first one to graduate college, after all.

Went to community college part time for 5 years, mostly because there was a lady at work who pushed me to do so, and I didn't have a decent reason to say no (especially since the classes were reimbursed by our employer).  True story.  I'd love to find her and thank her for that.  

Finally quit my job and went to college full time, because I was tired of seeing folks younger than me getting jobs over my head because they had a 4 year edumacation.  Finally graduated 4 years later (went to school to be a dietician, instead graduated with a degree in hospitality mgmt - and I have a very wise counselor to thank for that, who saw what I didn't see, that my mind was business oriented, not science oriented, and that I worked well with people, and especially enjoyed feeding them!)

Dad wasn't happy that I quit my "dream" of becoming a dietician and changed majors.  Also didn't like the fact that my reply was, "I really don't care what my degree is in, I just want one, and hopefully in something I can/will use."  Liked that answer even less, but who cares?  I was footing my own bill anyway.  

Like a previous poster mentioned, no one EVER asked me my GPA.  

So what does all this mean anyway?  Well, the most important, most significant thing to come of it was, that my future husband also went to school for the medical field, and ended up getting a BA instead.  Off he went into the hotel biz as well, and that's where we met.  So the moral of the story (atleast for me anyway), is the journey often isn't nearly important as the final destination.  

I wouldn't trade any of it for the world though!


----------



## Ken555 (Jan 17, 2014)

Interesting thread. I believe there is a difference between purely practical educational aspirations, for those targeting future employment as the primary goal, and those who want a well rounded education who may be better able to adjust to differing job opportunities. However, I don't see these as mutually exclusive goals.

I also went to a small liberal arts college (Lewis & Clark) and am convinced that the experience taught me how to think in a critical and effective manner. My degree is in History with a minor in East European History, and I've worked my entire career with entrepreneurs and other businesses and their computer systems in providing creative consulting services to meet each clients unique needs. You would think a history degree wouldn't have any influence on computers, yet it does, especially with operational database and web solutions (many "computer" firms focus on technology and not the project goals). My education taught me to understand perspective and context, as it applies to any subject. When consulting with business owners regarding their operational requirements, computers or other, I'm able to consider a wide range of factors and analyze the information critically. While many have this ability, I believe my education was a major contributing factor to improving this skill and unfortunately I don't see similar results with many of my colleagues.

College provided a means for me to learn about topics I would not voluntarily spend time researching, as I had not thought it important. There's a reason certain classes are considered requirements. The ability to write effectively (though this is often a disappearing art online) is key. I also learned how to find anything in a library - and that's not as easy as it might sound, and is certainly easier today than it was when I was at school. I credit my college for allowing me to study in Germany and live in Berlin when the Berlin Wall came down...I was quite close (with the Int'l press, actually) that day, and it was quite exciting. A trade school would never have provided that life experience.

It's been interesting to watch how higher education in America has changed in recent years, primarily due to budget constraints. There's little question in my opinion that the schools need to reevaluate how they perform their educational goals, and find ways to do so more affordably. Combining in person and online classes seems quite viable to me, permitting the social and classroom experience many consider valuable, along with the more affordable online opportunities as well. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Kal (Jan 17, 2014)

One of my pet peeves is school advisors not helping students (high school, college, etc) proceed on a path that makes sense for the individual and career.  Some study programs might be fun and interesting but don't provide real job opportunities with good growth and financial gain.

 It took me a couple of years in college to finally figure it out.  I looked at starting salaries and found that in one field the salary for a BS degree was the same as another field with a MS degree.  I also wanted to be sufficiently diverse to allow me to shift employment as career opportunities and market sectors change over time.  I also wanted freedom to live/work in geographical areas of my choice, rather than driven my external forces.

 As an example, I once met a young girl who just received her PhD in Marine Microbiology from Scripps Institute. She said there are no openings for a specialist in marine reef microbiology and she would be flipping hamburgers.  Very sad for her.  Great credentials, but limited future.

 For me, degrees in Chemistry, Chemical Engineering, Nuclear Engineering and Environmental Engineering.  It provides me with plenty of options to do what I want to do, where I want to do it and have a few coins in my pocket.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 17, 2014)

pjrose said:


> I still want to go to Law School.



Lol, I've always felt like an underachiever because I don't have a law degree.  If I win the lottery, I'm going to law school.  But not because I want to be a lawyer, just because I think it would be interesting.

H


----------



## heathpack (Jan 17, 2014)

I love reading about all the twists & turns people's education & careers have taken.  It's amazing how many of us have wound up somewhere we'd have never predicted when we were in school, but how much sense the career trajectory makes when someone explains how it came about.

Another anectode about "useless" majors: as part of my English degree, I had to take a course in Comparative Lit.  I met a guy at a party who strongly recommended a course called "Chinese Literature in Translation". Really?  Chinese lit?  But the guy was pretty cute and maybe I was hoping I'd see him around the Chinese dept, so I signed up for the class. It was definately one of the best experiences I ever had.  (The cute guy unfortunately began dating my best friend.  But he turned out to be a cad, so I guess it worked out for me but not her.)

The thing in that course that I liked the most was the classical Chinese poetry.  If you are a poetry connoisseur, Chinese poetry is better than western poetry.  It has all the same elements, but an added visual dimension (because of the Chinese characters vs western alphabet).  So next I took "Classical Chinese Poetry in Translation". I considered setting up an independent major, which you could do ay my university.  You propose a major and the required coursework and present it to the administration and they will either give it a yay or nay.  My independent major was to be a combination of Chinese literature, Chinese language and Chinese culture.  I went so far as to meet with the dean of students and get the major approved.  But I chickened out in the end, fearing the degree would be "useless" compared with the idea of going to veterinary school.  Now I feel pretty sure I would have actually had a pretty interesting career and been pretty darn in-demand.



H


----------



## ride2slide (Jan 17, 2014)

I have a nursing degree  from the second round of schooling. First one was animal science but I wasn't vet school material. So, needed something to make enough money to pay for my horse show habit. Nurses can always find work in any corner of the world.

Mindy


----------



## Beaglemom3 (Jan 17, 2014)

Quote PJROSE "I've never stopped learning, and consider myself a perpetual student. I still want to go to Law School."




  It is never too late. It took me years (part-time and summers), but I finished at 54. (RN-Diploma, BSN, MSN, JD via the very scenic route).

   MD/JD, Engineering/JD, RN-NP/JD, Environmental-CIH-CSP/JD, PharmD-BioPharm/JD, DVM/JD, Maritime/JD etc. students, in particular, were greatly encouraged to apply at the time.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

elaine said:


> but, hey, how many people really love their jobs and would rather work than not?


I will be #2. I  still enjoy (most days) at my work in law (gov regulatory enforcement). I don't make a huge big firm salary, but I am not burned out after 25 years. I have been PT for 15 years. It has been a good balance with 3 kids--though we seem to always have a messy house--my 2014 resolution![/QUOTE]

That is great! I envy you! I have always hated every day because of work. I just get through by thanking the Universe for helping me to survive and realize that I have it better than many people.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

geekette said:


> I disagree.  Had I decided what to pursue based on current occupational whatever at the time I entered freshmen year, those jobs largely vanished while I studied so I would have been obsolete from the get go.  sad state of affairs.
> 
> I personally think that one should seek what is interesting to them without regard to current economic conditions.  What's in demand today is not at all guaranteed to be in demand in a few years.  Plus, why force yourself to learn and understand stuff that you have no interest in??  and pay for the privilege.
> 
> ...



Right. This is what I always say. Not everyone can be a doctor or an engineer! There is also something to be said for education for education's sake! And, just the overall experience of being away at college- on your own- meeting new people, new experiences, etc. is sometimes worth it in my opinion. It helps an individual grow.....


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

geekette said:


> I will start that count at 1.
> 
> Love what I do, never any desire to have kids or not work since I've been doing it since age 13.
> 
> We all get our fulfillment in different ways.  taking care of a house and family is not my idea of fulfillment. ymmv



 That is great! But not for me... I have too much of an outside life going on...plus- I don't like being a slave - I need freedom...When I am at work I feel like I am wearing a ball and chain! LOl!:hysterical:


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 17, 2014)

elaine said:


> but, hey, how many people really love their jobs and would rather work than not?


I will be #2. I  still enjoy (most days) at my work in law (gov regulatory enforcement). I don't make a huge big firm salary, but I am not burned out after 25 years. I have been PT for 15 years. It has been a good balance with 3 kids--though we seem to always have a messy house--my 2014 resolution![/QUOTE]

That's why you like it- part-time! Probably decent salary. I have 11 hour days 5 days per week with the commute and no autonomy. When I used to work from home- I loved it because of the work/life balance. That is the difference!


----------



## glypnirsgirl (Jan 17, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Lol, I've always felt like an underachiever because I don't have a law degree.  If I win the lottery, I'm going to law school.  But not because I want to be a lawyer, just because I think it would be interesting.
> 
> H



pjrose


> I've never stopped learning, and consider myself a perpetual student. I still want to go to Law School.




So funny --- I had no desire to be a lawyer. I think both of you would love law school.

I really wanted to do economic analysis. I am a really good economist. 

My first husband insisted that I go to law school. I told him I didn't want to because everyone that I knew that was in law school HATED it. (My father taught us that you spend 1/2 of your waking life at work and life is too short to not enjoy half of your life).

I am old enough that women lawyers were a rarity -- but I am right on that cusp. I went to the University of Texas. When I entered law school in 1976, there were 5 women out of 500 students. The following year, 1977, there were about 15, 1978 there were 50 and the year after that 1/3 of the class were women. 

Anyway, I told him that I would apply and that if I got in, I would try it. I am one of only two attorneys that I know that LOVED law school. I am a voracious reader. Reading cases is like reading an interesting story and then analyzing it. I love the logic of law. I love having the knowledge to use laws as they exist as tools to benefit my clients. 

I was primarily a trial attorney for the first 20 years of my practice --- that was great while I was young, but became too stressful after that many years.

But, of all things, what I think helped me most to be successful as a lawyer were the years that I spent as a waitress as I worked myself through my undergraduate degree. (My father didn't believe that women needed a college education --- I was taking the place of a man that did need it --- so he certainly wasn't going to pay for it. And he wouldn't do the paperwork for me to get financial aid so paying for it myself was the only option). Until I was a waitress, I was so painfully shy that I hardly spoke. Being a waitress taught me that it isn't about me, it's about the patron/customer/client. 

The knowledge that it wasn't about me is what enabled me to be able to speak. To go from being unable to speak to being an advocate was a dramatic change for me. 

I think both of you would love law school. 

elaine


----------



## Kal (Jan 17, 2014)

glypnirsgirl said:


> pjrose
> 
> 
> ...I was primarily a trial attorney for the first 20 years of my practice --- that was great while I was young, but became too stressful after that many years....
> ...



I have been involved in many high stakes litigation cases and I really respect attorney's skills, the amount of work, long hours and stress, especially during depositions and courtroom battles.  In one case I was on the stand for 5 days and that was an experience!  Working with a world class litigation attorney is an eye opener.


----------



## ride2slide (Jan 17, 2014)

Hey Heathpack, hubby is a veterinary pathologist. I bet you two could get deep into conversation  on the front porch of a resort some time!


----------



## MuranoJo (Jan 18, 2014)

Interesting thread.  
So for me:
Had a dream to be a writer or interior designer or architect in high school.
No money in our family and no coaching for scholarships, just wanted to leave home as soon as possible after HS graduation.  Wanted any job that would pay the rent, so grabbed the first one I got in insurance.  Took professional courses and did very well with that for 10 years while having the company pay for my college education of night courses.  For them to pay for it, the degree work had to be business-oriented, so Marketing to me was the most 'creative.'

Took me years, but I graduated top of my class w/a BBA in Marketing w/a minor in communications.  Managed to land a job after graduation with a large hi-tech firm and enjoyed that until my recent early retirement.  (And, yes, they did ask about GPA and wouldn't interview you unless you were 3.5 at least.)  

H, I also loved poetry and in fact wrote quite a bit in high school and early college.  In fact, even sold 'love poems' to fellow high schoolers for a buck apiece.  

PJ, I got all 'As' in my college stat classes.   But I tell you, having grown up in hick country schools and having to learn even algebra at the college level was tough.  Funny thing is, I actually liked stats.


----------



## e.bram (Jan 19, 2014)

It is not so much what degree you have, but, where you got it. ie.Any degree from an Ivy ,MIT, CalTech or Stanford.


----------



## LannyPC (Jan 19, 2014)

This reminds me of a joke I read.  Considering the topic of this thread and the various posts therewithin, many will see the punchline coming from a mile away but, here goes:

Two women in their 50's, who were next door neighbours about 15 years earlier, happened to bump into each other at a shopping mall.  So they spent some time getting caught up on old times and asking how each other's family members were doing.

So one asks the other, "Your eldest daughter Lisa, what happened with her?"

She (Lisa's mother) responds "Oh, she went to college and got her degree in poetry."

"Great, and your middle child, Peter I think his name is, what about him?"

Peter and Lisa's mother responds, "Oh yeah, he also went to college but he got his degree in art."

"Awesome.  And your youngest son Johnny?  I remember what a mischievous little boy he was.  What became of him?"

Lisa, Peter, and Johnny's mother responds, "Yeah, Johnny, he became a plumber.  And it's a good thing otherwise we'd all be starving."


----------



## falmouth3 (Jan 19, 2014)

BS Biology, minor chemistry, also a year long internship as a medical technologist - Useful

MS Clinical Chemistry - useful


----------



## Elan (Jan 19, 2014)

I got my BS in electrical engineering and have worked in that field, specifically IC design, since graduation.  I was very near minors in both math and philosophy, but I just wanted out of school, so I never pursued either.  My degree was definitely career oriented and even though it's generally considered about the toughest bachelors degree to obtain, I really don't use what I was taught in school.  Never really did.  Engineering is about problem solving and applying knowledge, more than obtaining knowledge.  I could've learned all I needed in about 1 year of school.
For my kids, I want them to have a dream and a skill.  I want them to pursue their dream, yet have the ability to fall back on their skill. Growing up, I worked in my dad's bike shop.  Not that it matters much now, but it was comforting knowing that should I ever leave engineering, I could always open my own bike shop and put food on the table. 
I do think it's important to educate those who are pursuing degrees in fields where meaningful employment is less likely, that they should think about a plan B. Sad to say, but there are lots of kids out there that really think they're going to write video games or design Lego structures for a living......

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Beaglemom3 (Jan 19, 2014)

I have to wonder how many of us, Baby Boomers in particular, were heavily influenced by our depression-era & WWII parents - The Greatest Generation.

I can recall hearing over and over again "get a job that you can always fall back on" and "oh, you want to be a_ lady-lawyer _?". Talking 'bout my generation..............

Also, the Vietnam War and the draft (one's draft number)  played a role, in part, for the guys in my old neighborhood of South Boston, Ma. and I would think elsewhere, too.

Lots of variables.

I'm sure there must be a study on this somewhere.

Great thread.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 19, 2014)

And don't forget about the Equal Rights movement ==> those whose business successes in being recruited for jobs and promoted didn't mesh with what was happening in their personal lives. Men generally married down in status - in those days.


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 19, 2014)

*"trade school"*

I was also fortunate that my Engineering School, University of Cincinnati, required you to Co-Op, alternating quarters between school and work. It added a year to the program for a total of five years if you stayed on schedule but when I graduated, I had a Mechanical Engineering Degree and was a Journeyman Machinist. 

If Engineering didn't work out, I could always make stuff in a Machine Shop. :whoopie:

I guess you could say I actually went to two trade schools. 

Cheers


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 19, 2014)

*"Trade school"*

Duplicate post

Cheers


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 19, 2014)

The most important and interesting things I learned (and continue to learn) are the things I read and educate myself on my own.


----------



## VivianLynne (Jan 19, 2014)

Engineering. 

My oldest sister was only encourage to attend a hospital nursing diploma program. Our parents were EXTREMELY happy that sister got engaged to a 4th year medical student whom she married 3 months later.

And next older sister went to college 800 miles from home to become a math teacher - except she forgot to take teacher training courses. Our parents were very unhappy. She changed colleges after her 2nd year - and started working in the campus computer operations center. She took a job as a programmer.

The sister 4 years older than me, went to an engineering college. She got summer jobs with P&G and then IBM. After graduation, she worked in FL for IBM. 

I decide engineers had jobs - so I went to an engineering university - and worked for 13 years until I had my 3rd child - been a fulltime mom for 13 years now.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 19, 2014)

BMWguynw said:


> I opted to enlist in the Navy, feeling as though I'd have some control over how I spent my time. (Hey, I was 18 - what did I know?  ) I figured four years in the service would give me time to grow up some, I'd avoid being drafted into the Army, and I could earn GI Bill credit for going to college after my enlistment.  It all seemed like a good idea at the time.  And it was...
> Dave



My parents died when I was young and I grew up in an orphanage in Cleveland, Ohio. I did not have money for college, so I enlisted in the USAF. When I was in basic training the Gulf of Tonkin Incident happened and that's when President Johnson decided to escalate the US involvement in Viet Nam. After basic, I went to Combat Medic School in Greenville, MS. The top ten in the class were chosen for additional training in Montgomery, AL. I was lucky, I was in the top 10. We arrived in Montgomery about 2 weeks before school was to start. During that 2-week interim, a Dental X-Ray job came open at Homestead AFB in Florida and that's where I was sent and stayed from 1964-1968.  

During that time I went to night school at Miami-Dade Junior College South. At the time, the South Campus was just being built and classes were held in area middle schools. The way it worked back then was you paid for your classes out of your pocket and were reimbursed if you received an A.  I completed a year of college going to night school and got straight A's.   

During that time I was dating a nursing student, Virginia who wanted to get married. I told her no because I wanted to finish college and thought that if we got married, we would have children and I probably would never finish college.

She said fine, if we weren't getting married we should stop seeing each other and we broke up.  About a month later, I was having second thoughts and called Virginia to see if we could get back together. She would not talk to me.

Virginia had an older sister who was dating a friend who was in my company. I was invited to their wedding. Going through the receiving line after the ceremony, the look I received from Virginia buried me 6 feet under. My only consolation, was later that evening while on the dance floor, I happened to look her way. She was looking at me but looked quickly away. I interpreted the look on her face that she still cared.  However, it was not to be.

I've never regretted the experience I had in the military. After the Air Force
I returned to Cleveland and entered Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) as a sophmore. I was a student, worked part-time, used the GI Bill and took out a student loan to pay my way through school.  I think the GI Bill is one of the best Government programs that ever happened. Graduated with a BA - major Sociology.  

I got a good score on the LSAT but did not want to go to Law School. Someone suggested that I go to Grad School to become a Speech Pathologist.  I had no idea what a Speech Pathologist was.  Went to the library and looked up Speech Pathology and then went to see the Dean of the CWRU Speech Pathology Department.  He looked at my academic record (GPA mattered), and a recommendation I had from my Biology Professor whose lab I had worked in for a couple of semesters. The Dean offered me a scholarship but said my program of study would take a year longer because I did not have certain prerequisite courses. I said where do I sign?  

When you major in Speech Pathology, you automatically minor in Audiology. After I took my first Audiology course, I decided I liked Audiology better than Speech Pathology and I switched my major and graduated with a Masters Degree in Audiology.

Told myself I would work a couple of years and then go back to school to get a Ph.D.  I worked at the Speech & Hearing Center at CWRU for a year and then went to Cook County Hospital in Chicago for 3 years.  Cook County was a great experience and I saw cases that often are only seen in text books. 

Well, I was now 4 years post M.A. and I told myself, if I don't go back to school now, I won't do it. I was on the clinical faculty of Northwestern University and they wanted me to do my PhD studies there.  Students there were very cut-throat and competitive. I can deal with that type of environment but it's not my style.  I checked out some other programs - University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin (Madison), University of Colorado, McGill University, and the University of Washington. Decided to go to the University of Washington where I received my Ph.D. in Audiology in 1984.  

I love my career and have worked for the Department of Veterans Affairs since 1989. Helping veteran's hear better is very rewarding.  I will say that most everything I do now with digital hearing aids, I did not learn in school - I've taken continuing education courses to keep up with all the changes in technology, especially in the past 5 years.  

I'm in the process of getting some dental implants which as many of you know is very expensive. So I'll be working a few more years to pay off the bills before I retire.

I have enjoyed this thread and reading all the stories and the differences of opinion on certain topics.  Thanks to all for posting.


Richard


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> That is great! But not for me... I have too much of an outside life going on...plus- I don't like being a slave - I need freedom...When I am at work I feel like I am wearing a ball and chain! LOl!:hysterical:



Sounds like you simply had the wrong job!  I absolutely do not feel like a slave and didn't feel that way when I was working menial jobs either.  

Possibly we simply have very different mindsets as my dad prepared me for a life of holding a job and looking after myself.  I knew I would have to 'pay my dues', perhaps repeatedly.  

But it is precisely because I hold a good job that I can have a good "outside life" going on.  I don't feel that working detracts from that.  I will not wait until I am retired to Have A Life.

It's not likely that most of the people I would like to see during the day would be available because they also work, but I also need the money to be able to do things so not working would not necessarily bring me a more active social life and in fact I would be more in danger of becoming a hermit.

One of the best things about Tug is discovering the myriad views.


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

Kal said:


> One of my pet peeves is school advisors not helping students (high school, college, etc) proceed on a path that makes sense for the individual and career.



I don't think I ever knew who my HS advisor was, was assigned to one in college that didn't care about me as a student and certainly not as a person, needed to fill seats in classes no one wanted.  Headed straight to Drop and Add after that ridiculous session and never went back.

My experience is that there are no advisors and I gave up on that kind of support.  For myself, not concerned, but for someone really needing help, it should be available in the office proclaiming to do it.


----------



## Elan (Jan 20, 2014)

geekette said:


> I don't think I ever knew who my HS advisor was, was assigned to one in college that didn't care about me as a student and certainly not as a person, needed to fill seats in classes no one wanted.  Headed straight to Drop and Add after that ridiculous session and never went back.
> 
> My experience is that there are no advisors and I gave up on that kind of support.  For myself, not concerned, but for someone really needing help, it should be available in the office proclaiming to do it.



  I agree.  I'm not sure who my HS counselor was either.  If I remember correctly, it was some dude that was so out of touch that his "advice" would've been meaningless.  To be quite frank, a HS, and it's associated environment, is probably not the best place to be doling out career guidance.  Like you, I knew what I wanted to do so guidance was not critical, but I do agree that it's a needed function -- probably best performed outside of the HS.


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> The most important and interesting things I learned (and continue to learn) are the things I read and educate myself on my own.



I think this is very important.  At least for myself, continuing to learn and grow is important. I  do not want old age to atrophy my body and mind.

It is also a lot more 'fun' to study on my own schedule, and have the topics be of interest to me.


----------



## optimist (Jan 20, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> My parents died when I was young and I grew up in an orphanage in Cleveland, Ohio. I did not have money for college, so I enlisted in the USAF. When I was in basic training the Gulf of Tonkin Incident happened and that's when President Johnson decided to escalate the US involvement in Viet Nam. After basic, I went to Combat Medic School in Greenville, MS. The top ten in the class were chosen for additional training in Montgomery, AL. I was lucky, I was in the top 10. We arrived in Montgomery about 2 weeks before school was to start. During that 2-week interim, a Dental X-Ray job came open at Homestead AFB in Florida and that's where I was sent and stayed from 1964-1968.
> 
> During that time I went to night school at Miami-Dade Junior College South. At the time, the South Campus was just being built and classes were held in area middle schools. The way it worked back then was you paid for your classes out of your pocket and were reimbursed if you received an A.  I completed a year of college going to night school and got straight A's.
> 
> ...



What a great story... What happened to Virginia?  I was thinking you were going to end with your reunion!


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

optimist said:


> What a great story... What happened to Virginia?  I was thinking you were going to end with your reunion!



me too!!!  Please tell us, did you ever again see Virginia??


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 20, 2014)

optimist said:


> What a great story... What happened to Virginia?  I was thinking you were going to end with your reunion!





geekette said:


> me too!!!  Please tell us, did you ever again see Virginia??



Well, the look across the dance floor was the last I saw of Virginia.  I've wondered sometimes what became of her but I think it best to let sleeping dogs lie and I think my wife would agree.


Thanks for asking.

Richard


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 20, 2014)

geekette said:


> Sounds like you simply had the wrong job!  I absolutely do not feel like a slave and didn't feel that way when I was working menial jobs either.
> 
> Possibly we simply have very different mindsets as my dad prepared me for a life of holding a job and looking after myself.  I knew I would have to 'pay my dues', perhaps repeatedly.
> 
> ...



Like I said- Work gets in the way of my life- but- I have always worked since I am 16 - I am a Survivor!


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Like I said- Work gets in the way of my life- but- I have always worked since I am 16 - I am a Survivor!



Survival is key!!!


----------



## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

If I recall correctly, in my small liberal arts college we weren't allowed to declare a major until our sophomore year, by which time we would have had more of a variety of classes including freshman interdisciplinary classes.  

Now in the medium sized state universities where DH and I teach, students come in with a declared major - at age 18 or even 17.

Yes, some people/kids may know what they want to do at that point, but how do they really know, without experiencing a variety of subjects, including some they may never have considered?  In my long bio above, I forgot to mention that my first and only Physics class was my last semester, when I was finishing the 3-science-classes requirement.  I LOVED it and have no doubt that I would have strongly considered a Physics major had I taken it sooner.

What do you all think about declaring majors earlier vs later?


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Well, the look across the dance floor was the last I saw of Virginia.  I've wondered sometimes what became of her but I think it best to let sleeping dogs lie and I think my wife would agree.
> 
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> ...



When I was in 3rd grade, I remember our teacher reading a book to us.  This particular book was about pirates.  When we would get to a climactic moment in the story we got to choose.  Should the lead character stay and fight?  Or jump into the life boat and flee?  The class would vote, and the decision we chose lead us in one direction.  Or the other.  The book ended differently depending on our choice.  

That book always stuck with me.  If I could undo some of my actions from say 13 to 30, my answer _should be_ *should be*, I should go back and have a redo.  But if I did, where would I be?  Every action I took lead me to where I am today.  If I had stayed with HIM, I would have never met my husband.  

I don't regret any of my choices, even the one who I "let get away".  I'm sure your wife would agree.


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> What do you all think about declaring majors earlier vs later?


Hate it.  For Me.

I was pushed and harrassed to Declare Declare Declare and it was horrible pressure for no reason.  It's no one's business but mine how long I linger on campus trying to decide and paying semester after semester...  

For those that Know what they want, great, let's get you going in this direction.

But to push the undecided is a horrible thing.  I don't know who caved to pressure and ended up with a major they felt stuck in or didn't fit them, but I stuck to my guns and just said NO until I decided.  Damned if I'll get trapped in a box.

It's MY college career and they can just live with a blank space where Major goes until I know what it should be.   

It's a second in needless public humiliation to the constant "what do you want to be when you grow up?" I dealt with as a youngster.  Like, what is wrong with me that I don't know by age 10 how I want to live my life, since my older siblings Know!?   And to then give me only 2 choices - nurse or teacher (just so happened sis wanted to be a teacher) and I am supposed to Pick One?  I could never understand why it was so fascinating and confounding for the adults.  I don't want to be a nurse, I don't want to be a teacher, but I don't know what I want to be.  Wish I had been wise enough back then to add "and what is wrong with that?"


----------



## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

geekette said:


> Hate it.  For Me.
> . . .    And to then give me only 2 choices - nurse or teacher . . .



I had three - nurse, teacher, and secretary - and of course getting married was a requirement.  Fortunately those career choices were expectations, but not strict limitations.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> I had three - nurse, teacher, and secretary - and of course getting married was a requirement.  Fortunately those career choices were expectations, but not strict limitations.



Same 3 for me -- and my father went to a college interview when I was looking to change colleges and majors. I was asked to leave the room as the PhD professor reamed him out for his attitude - I was a Sophmore math major and was considering changing majors (and universities) to take a Computer Science major. 

I was set to graduated with that 1st undergraduate Computer Science class 14 months later. 

My youngest 2 sisters got to add Engineering to acceptable college fields of study. They were 6 and 10 years younger than me.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 20, 2014)

Wow.  I remember my HS guidance counselor quite well, although I hadnt thought of him in years.  He was the guy who came up with a list of what seemed like good schools for me and top of the list was a state university in another state 500 miles away.  It was not even slightly on my radar or that of anyone I knew (although one other girl from my HS class went to the same university).  It where I eventually went for the total tuiton cost of $500 for 4 years thanks a scholorship and it was a really great experience for me.  So I don't know where he got his idea or if he gave everybody else good advice but he did well by me.  And its not like I was in a small school, I graduated in a class of 800.  He did not give any advice whatsoever as to career, though, just what universities to apply to.

My college counselor was pretty much out of his element with me.  He was an advisor for the English department and his basci job was to make sure you took your classes is a manner such that you could graduate on time.  I didn't really get why this was necessary, everything you needed to know was published in the course catalogue and I could read that of course.  To apply to veterinary school, different schools had different requirements.  He had no idea about any of that, but even if he thought he knew, I would have of course been in touch with the veterinary college directly to make 100% sure.  So I knew exactly what I needed to do and there was no way I would have expected anyone to be more responsible for that knowledge than me.  The stakes were too high.

I never once considered any of these people to be career counselors.  My view of my HS guidence counselor was that he was guiding your through the transition from HS to college.  The college counselor was just making sure you were on track to get all your coursework done.  I agree it would be nice if someone advised kids as to smarter career choices but Im not sure that is really the purpose of these people.  At least in my case, they also had teaching and administration duties, I don't know that it would be reasonable to expect career counseling as well.

H


----------



## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

*How I Picked My College*

OK, time to fess up that my college "decision" involved zero serious thought:

I had an early acceptance to Wm & Mary when we lived in VA, but my senior year we moved to Colorado and I guess the idea slipped through the cracks. 

I was a competitive swimmer and did that for gym during one of the afternoon periods.

Cheerleader tryouts were on a given afternoon, and of course  I couldn't have wet hair; going to see a college counselor was a legitimate way to skip class, i.e. swim.  

The only counselor there that day was from Beloit, I picked up an application and forgot about it.

Didn't make cheerleader.

A few weeks later my dad was bugging me about filling out applications.  I had one, filled it out, sent it in, got accepted, went, and met DH two weeks later.  

Another of those countless examples of "what if I hadn't....or had....instead of...."


----------



## Ken555 (Jan 20, 2014)

Not all high school / college counselors are created equal. I had a horrible counselor in high school, and each required meeting was excruciating. I studied abroad during my junior year of high school, and my counselor was less than helpful with working through the details of transfer of credit etc. In college, each freshman was assigned a teacher to be an advisor which was not career counseling, but college counseling. I was randomly assigned to the (chief) librarian, who turned out to be an excellent resource and knew everyone (of course). I remember how surprised he was when I walked in to our first meeting with a list of all the classes I thought I would want to take over three years (I graduated early). Of course, my plans changed after the first quarter when I realized the International Affairs dept (which was a prime factor at choosing this particular college) turned out to be cold, impersonal, degrading, brutal, and vicious. I quickly changed to History after taking an elective in that dept and realized that the history dept was the exact opposite. My college also encouraged students to wait to declare a major, especially since many of the first year classes are required anyway, so there is little rush to declare. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> What do you all think about declaring majors earlier vs later?



In my Engineering college, every took the same core humanities, math and science courses the first year. Second year you picked your field, were issued a course of study and could select one technical elective each of the three final quarters of your fifth and final year. Everything else was prescribed and if you missed or flunked any one class, it was another year until it came around again. If you didn't achieve the required GPA, it was onto another college or the draft. 

So if you wanted to be an Engineer, freedom of choice was held in absentia after enrollment until your fifth year.

Cheers


----------



## glypnirsgirl (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> OK, time to fess up that my college "decision" involved zero serious thought:
> 
> I had an early acceptance to Wm & Mary when we lived in VA, but my senior year we moved to Colorado and I guess the idea slipped through the cracks.
> 
> ...



SO funny!

And similar to what happened to me. I was signed up for Mrs. Bradley's English class. I really liked her and was looking forward to it. Her husband, a physicist lost his job and found one in New Mexico so they moved. I got stuck with Mr. Shook ---- and he and I did not get along at all. 

So, I read about a test for a scholarship that is given by a university I have never heard of, Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. And, the test is during my dreaded English class. So, I signed up to take it.

I won the scholarship --- which was critical for me because of my dad's refusal to fill out financial aid forms. I had other money in the bank because I had been working and saving half of my money since I was twelve. Because of the scholarship, I was able to go off to school.

I started as a chemistry major --- not a fan of early declaring. Decided I did not like the lab work involved. My eye sight is not very good and I couldn't read things with sufficient precision.  

I advance placed out of 32 hours. So, I had 36 hours of almost all science and math courses and 32 hours that I had placed out of. Since I was on my own dime, I wanted to get out as fast as possible. Figured out that Economics was the one major I could change to and still get out on time (only two prerequisites so once I had those out of the way, I could take all the economics classes that I wanted --- all at once). 

Just lucky --- if Mrs. Bradley had been my English teacher I would have gone to Texas A&M or University of Texas and I probably would have dropped out. 

As it was, I ended up in a school I loved, could afford, and a major that I loved, too. I met my first husband there. If he hadn't pushed me into law school I would have never considered it. 

You never know what small twists of fate will lead to.

elaine


----------



## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

glypnirsgirl said:


> SO funny!
> 
> And similar to what happened to me. I was signed up for Mrs. Bradley's English class. I really liked her and was looking forward to it. Her husband, a physicist lost his job and found one in New Mexico so they moved. I got stuck with Mr. Shook ---- and he and I did not get along at all.
> 
> ...



Love it!  And if "David" whom I met the first day of college hadn't asked current DH a few weeks later to see if PJ liked him (David), and if current DH hadn't told "David" that PJ said to go fly a kite, and if "David" hadn't disappeared, I wouldn't have started going out with DH


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds (Jan 20, 2014)

Love these stories!

I am currently a (non-traditional) doctoral student. I hope to graduate in 2017, but 2018 is looking more likely. I keep saying this was the dumbest decision I ever made, but I know someday it will be worth it. I worked so hard to get into this very competitive program, but now I am coming back from 2 weeks on Kauai, and working at a coffee shop sounds so much more appealing than starting multivariate stats tomorrow.


----------



## jlr10 (Jan 21, 2014)

pjrose said:


> What do you all think about declaring majors earlier vs later?



When taking DS to college prep lectures they discussed declaring majors and I laughed "No kid really knows what they want to do when they enter college...except engineers."  DS was set on majoring in engineering, and is in his final year. He is excited about getting out but worries about finding a job in engineering.

My parents forced me into college, but they were not helping financially and expected me to foot the bill for their dream.  I dropped out the end of my sophomore year as I am not stupid but had to study hard to get reasonable good grades.  I never did obtain a college degree but went onto obtain 4 professional designations in my field. Those designations opened doors for interviews during the height of the recession when my friends in the field could not even calls returned.  I got lucky, as I realized college was not for me but that study was, and I got my employer to pay for the education.

Now it does seem a degree is expected.  We advertised for a receptionist and were flooded with resumes from people with degrees in business administration.  Having the degree doesn't really mean an applicant is qualified, but it does show they can set a goal and reach it.


----------



## pjrose (Jan 21, 2014)

ThreeLittleBirds said:


> Love these stories!
> 
> I am currently a (non-traditional) doctoral student. I hope to graduate in 2017, but 2018 is looking more likely. I keep saying this was the dumbest decision I ever made, but I know someday it will be worth it. I worked so hard to get into this very competitive program, but now I am coming back from 2 weeks on Kauai, and working at a coffee shop sounds so much more appealing than starting multivariate stats tomorrow.



Oh, but multivariate stats was so much fun!   Actually I did like it, and have even used it   Compared to Kauai, though....that's a toughie.


----------



## geekette (Jan 21, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Oh, but multivariate stats was so much fun!   Actually I did like it, and have even used it   ...


definitely good stuff, I hear the guys over the wall having a ball with it daily.


----------



## talkamotta (Jan 21, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I think the point should be made that, currently, all degrees are pretty much useless.  Jobs expect you to have college now, so a college degree is now treated like a high school diploma used to be in the work force.  They check to see if you have you bachelors and beyond that, unless you are beelining for a specific nitch job, medicine, education, accounting, Law it doesn't matter what your degree is in.
> 
> So I may have changed my own mind, while the DEGREE maybe useful, any major you take is useless.
> 
> I do find it interesting the the OP felt her degree in 'modern poetry' was more useful then a degree in economics.


hE

i eould have to agree with you that a college degree is what the high school  diploma used to be. mandatory.  I would never go as far to say a degree is useless.  Unless of course you didn't learn one thing.  My careerll been good. was in large network systems. My degree was in business. I took some paralegal classes as electives and accounting mainly tax accounting classes. Went to real estate school and was a part time realayor.  If I had just worked at my career...I wouldnt have the means to retire and be able to travel like I do. The carte provided the pension and 401k but the education provided the knowledge to make the most of my investments, 401k and properties. So for me its a


----------



## Ridewithme38 (Jan 21, 2014)

talkamotta said:


> hE
> 
> i eould have to agree with you that a college degree is what the high school  diploma used to be. mandatory.  I would never go as far to say a degree is useless.  Unless of course you didn't learn one thing.  My careerll been good. was in large network systems. My degree was in business. I took some paralegal classes as electives and accounting mainly tax accounting classes. Went to real estate school and was a part time realayor.  If I had just worked at my career...I wouldnt have the means to retire and be able to travel like I do. The carte provided the pension and 401k but the education provided the knowledge to make the most of my investments, 401k and properties. So for me its a



Anything you can learn in a college classroom can be Google searched and understood by anyone at anytime now. You can go through college and not learn a thing, as long as you have that degree and access to the internet that's all you need these days.


----------



## Ken555 (Jan 21, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Anything you can learn in a college classroom can be Google searched and understood by anyone at anytime now. You can go through college and not learn a thing, as long as you have that degree and access to the internet that's all you need these days.




A degree doesn't teach you to think. Not all schools are equal. I can't begin to tell you the number of college educated idiots I've interviewed over the years who have no concept of reality. Similarly, I don't hire those who only have book smarts - most jobs require practical experience except entry-level positions.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 21, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Anything you can learn in a college classroom can be Google searched and understood by *anyone* at *anytime* now.



Is that where future Doctors, physicists, engineers and other skilled technical specialists will be coming from? The University of Google and Wikipedia University? 

Cheers


----------



## Lydlady (Jan 21, 2014)

My "useless" degrees are a Bachelor's and Master's in Music (specifically performance).  I didn't end up doing anything with it but I still don't regret it.  It taught me a lot of discipline.  Even though the older I get, the less discipline I seem to have, it was still worthwhile.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 25, 2014)

pjrose said:


> If I recall correctly, in my small liberal arts college we weren't allowed to declare a major until our sophomore year, by which time we would have had more of a variety of classes including freshman interdisciplinary classes.
> 
> Now in the medium sized state universities where DH and I teach, students come in with a declared major - at age 18 or even 17.
> 
> ...



The Tyranny of the College Major - by J.W. Powell/ Education/ The Atlantic.com

Colleges should require students to take more courses outside of their discipline.

Money Is a Terrible Way to Measure the Value of a College Major - by Jordan Weissmann/ Business/ The Atlantic.com

Yes, students need to understand what skills are marketable. But they also need to study subjects that keep them engaged enough to graduate.  





Reuters


Richard


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 25, 2014)

I took my first ever Marketing class my senior year.  I absolutely loved it.  I often said that, had I known about marketing when I went to college, I might've majored in it instead.  I later toyed with the idea of getting my masters in mktg, but I was too broke at the time to consider going back.  

I suppose I could've stuck around and taken a few marketing classes, but from the time I was 17 till I was 29 I was either working two jobs and going to school, or working one job and going to school full time.  I was pretty burnt out and just wanted to be done already!


----------



## pjrose (Jan 25, 2014)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Anything you can learn in a college classroom can be Google searched and understood by anyone at anytime now. You can go through college and not learn a thing, as long as you have that degree and access to the internet that's all you need these days.



Wrong.  Google and the net will give you  information.  Good professors will teach you what to do with it, how to approach it critically, logically, creatively.  

Unfortunately a lot of schooling (I hesitate to say  education) now is the transmission of information; projecting power points (yuck) from the text and reading them to students who dutifully transcribe them.  That leads to memorization and regurgitation.  That is not education.  

Change the word information to ideas, and you've got something.  The information is just eggs, butter, and lemon.  The idea is to combine them by beating the eggs, melting the butter, pouring one into the other in a thin stream, beating all the while.....and that idea required imagination, understanding the ingredients and their properties, sometimes having a goal or purpose in mind, and a lot of trial and error to not scramble or curdle the mixture.  Those, in turn, require thought.  

Using that information, understanding it,  analyzing it, combining it, comparing it, assessing it, contrasting it, finding links,  and creating new...that's what is learned in a good education.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 26, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Wrong.  Google and the net will give you  information.  Good professors will teach you what to do with it, how to approach it critically, logically, creatively.
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of schooling (I hesitate to say  education) now is the transmission of information; projecting power points (yuck) from the text and reading them to students who dutifully transcribe them.  That leads to memorization and regurgitation.  That is not education.
> 
> ...



Triple thumbs up.  Not to mention that if you happen to teach an esoteric subject (like I do), a good bit of what you teach is not available in any textbook let alone on the web.  Maybe if you've never had great teachers/mentors, you cannot imagine what real learning is?  Who knows?  It's sad to imagine, really.

H


----------



## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Maybe if you've never had great teachers/mentors, you cannot imagine what real learning is?  Who knows?  It's sad to imagine, really.
> 
> H



That was my high school senior English teacher. She was a complete inspiration. Veni Houston was a dynamic teacher, a most excellent person, and probably the one teacher who had the most positive effect on me. If not for the Draft and Viet Nam war altering my options, I very possibly would have gone on to become a teacher, too.

Dave


----------



## pjrose (Jan 26, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Triple thumbs up.  Not to mention that if you happen to teach an esoteric subject (like I do), a good bit of what you teach is not available in any textbook let alone on the web.  Maybe if you've never had great teachers/mentors, you cannot imagine what real learning is?  Who knows?  It's sad to imagine, really.
> 
> H



Or if you teach a subject that students are scared of or dread (Statistics, Research Methods), you can look up everything online, but it's still greek, and how would most even know what to look for?  It takes a professor with teaching methods that work to dispel the anxiety and enhance comprehension and the ability to actually use these tools in real research.  I had such a prof, became such a prof, and some of my students are now teaching it.


----------



## Elan (Jan 26, 2014)

In engineering school, one is required to take lots of technical courses that don't really apply to the field of study.  For instance, as an electrical engineering student, I had to take classes such as Strength of Materials and Thermodynamics.  As interesting as the Carnot cycle is, it really has little to do with electronics.  

  The reason given for having to take these courses was that they taught problem solving.  For a long time, I thought that made sense; honing one's problem solving skills.  After having worked for 25 years in the semiconductor industry, I can now say that either one has problem solving skills or they don't.  No amount of education is going to turn a lousy engineer into a good one.  There's a lot of folks who get engineering degrees and when they find out they suck at engineering, go get an MBA somewhere. 

  As far as instruction, as I've stated in other threads, my best professors were adjunct prof's that were actually employed in the industry.  They had a degree of believability to them that the full timer's didn't, because they knew what fell apart between theory and practice.  OTOH, I had numerous lousy instructors who thought that because they had a PhD, they knew a subject.  They were largely pure academicians, and had never really accomplished anything useful in the real world.  Unfortunately, those types are a dime-a-dozen on many campuses today.  Educated idiots, as my grandfather called them.


----------



## JudyH (Jan 26, 2014)

I was a very late bloomer.  I only loved two things, reading and animals.  I was and still am, clueless in math.  I would have loved to be a vet, but my math and science grades were terrible.
My mother said I had to go to college, get a degree, and be able to support myself.  I wanted to be an English major, but she said that was useless and pushed me to go to nursing school, as she had wanted to be a nurse but wasn't and I liked medical stuff.
So I lasted one semester in nursing school before failing math and chemistry. She panicked and took me to a psychologist for testing who convinced her I should major in English as it was the only thing I was good at.
I spent the next 4 years happily reading novels, poetry and plays.  On the psychologist's advice, I also took journalism and radio/TV.  Connie Chung was in all of my classes.
Thanks to President Johnson and the war on poverty, I knew years before graduation I could get a social work job if radio/TV didn't work out.
By the time I graduated, I was newly married (to an accountant! so I never have to do math!) and my mother was dying, so I gave up the radio/TV and got that social work job.
In the 60s/70s the only social work degree was at the master's level.  After working two years, the Department of Social Services paid our way to get masters in social work.  Thanks to the Miller Analogy test, which had no math, I got into grad school. 
I got out, started working with learning disabled children, figured I had a LD in math, and stayed in that career for 25 years.  Along the way, when a federal grant  dried up, I enrolled and graduated from the social work Ph.D. program ( a colossal waste of time).
I spent 25 years working with LD children and their families and fighting school systems.  Didn't earn much but lots of reward and happiness.
So for my career, I needed the paper on the wall to get a foot in the door.  But all the important stuff I learned from others, parents, books, and life.
If I was younger, I'd go to law school for special education law.

As I taught college, I saw that older returning students were much more serious and motivated that the wealthy young straight from high school.  I still think a degree is important.  Now you need the degree to get the job, later school is for learning and thinking. Real learners never stop learning.


----------



## ThreeLittleBirds (May 26, 2014)

pjrose...

I wanted to let you know that I go an "A" in multivariate statistics, and I did LOVE it. Seriously. Much better than advanced stats and such. 

Now I'm off to do a little CFA, ROC analysis, and considering SEM for my thesis. Then watch out dissertation!!!


----------



## Icc5 (May 26, 2014)

*Lessons Learned*

Graduated from high school in 1969 and felt that I learned the most there between education, friends, sports, social life, etc.
Went on to get a two year degree in law enforcement from the local junior college while working full time in retail.  Didn't really feel that I learned much except what law was what.
Went on to get a four year degree in business management and shortly after also received a four year in business supervision (that one came without me applying for it and just showed up in the mail from same University I got the management degree in).
When I was getting my four year I also worked full time, lived and was an officer in my fraternity, played intramural sports.  I did learn how to manage my time very well.
All in all, none of the degrees mattered in my career as I worked my way up from a courtesy clerk to assistant manager to store manager.  I thought my degrees would make a difference but they really didn't.  Most of the other managers had/have either a small amount of college or none at all.
Later it seemed that the company I worked for starting hiring more college graduates but only at the Division Office level.
My biggest thing I received from my education was being the first in my family to graduate beating my two oldest brothers.  Now one older and one younger each have degrees so I guess I started it all.  I also did make my parents proud of me since one never graduated high school and the other did just have a high school degree.
Bart


----------

