# (2010 thread) PH Towers by Westgate by an employee (OPC)



## a-vegas-opc (May 20, 2010)

Hello everyone. This is my first post.

I am a Westgate employee. Or that is I used to be. 
I was a timeshare opc. I am sure many of you dislike me already. But I wanted to open a discussion about the PH Towers because not only are sone of the things being said here completely untrue, I have been searching for info on how much financial trouble WG is actually in, they are a private company so it's hard to tell!

1. The ph towers are managed by Westgate.
FALSE: the original agreement on the "new ph" (aka old aladdin" was threefold. Robert Earl and ph resturaunts, starwood resortsanaging and Westgate building a tower with starwood managing that as well as the existing ph hotel.  Through the Robert Earl fallout starwood refused to make a payment when earl did, and at that point wg was managing the towers briefly when they opened in December of 2009. Now though harrahs does EVERYTHING except II and Westgate guests. Harrahs does the hotel and ts checkins ad well as the concierge/valet/room service/et all. 
The poor maid service is because harrahs still has a temp agency hiring people to clean.

2. The lawsuit is because wg can't pay the bills.
FALSE but unconfirmed: 
seems that Tudor saliba has sued MGM grand for city center monies owed and MGM sued back stating poor workmanship meant they (Tudor) was in default of contract. MGM grand won. Also Tudor sued a property called queensridge which are million dollar residential condos. They lost.
The problems in the rooms are mainly constructuon issues.
Wg has been in mediated talks with Tudor and claims 18 million in repairs are needed. Tudor went to the press though and served papers.

So which company does one believe? Hard to say. Tudor was also the contractor of record when 8 people died building city center. 8 people died in the construction boom of 1990-2000. 8 in a decade.
Tudor rushes jobs it seems. 

3. Ts owners seem upset at ph towers.
True:
they seem upset. Ironically most if them own elsewhere and mist wg owners have to pay a huge fee to stay at wg. In fact they usually stay at polo towers or Marriott not ph because the exchange fee of over $200 a night is a bit high.

So three things I think I can talk about.
But I wanna know if these people are going out of business. For the record I hate wg. They crooked and they are about money. I've talked to a lawyer about a lawsuit regarding something called a "courtesy tour" which has cost me thousands as a "lowly opc" who just sends the people off to the tour. 
I've passed up being a timeshare sales rep to go i to residential real estate but I've heard rumors of David being broke for two years now. 

They sold all non timeshare assets in the past 2 months but strangely the sales room at ph sits CLOSED two days a week (Tuesday and Wednesday) which they say is because sales "sold $75 million already and that's all the banks financed us for for the entire year!" but I don't buy that bull at all.

I make more money working for a different resort and they treat us well. 

So us Westgate really going under?


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## dougp26364 (May 21, 2010)

The problem, at least as I see it, is that your information is coming from Westgate. King David's operation isn't known by TUG members as one of the most honest operations around. The fact that he has his multi-million dollar unfinished mansion up for sale and the issues with the tower of terror seem to indicate he's got problems.

At any rate, you'll be hard pressed to find many Westgate supporters here. Despite your statements as to who is and who is not managing the TOT, Westgates name is still on the building and that's more than enough for most of us to stay as far away from ownership as possible. Having dealt with Westgates sales staff once and encountering the maintenance meeting lie, I have no reason to trust a Westgate salesman regardless of your employment status.


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## tlwmkw (May 21, 2010)

What is an opc?  Not familiar with the timeshare lingo.

tlwmkw


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## a-vegas-opc (May 21, 2010)

tlwmkw said:


> What is an opc?  Not familiar with the timeshare lingo.
> 
> tlwmkw



off
property
consultant

I ask u to get signed up for the tour. 
I actually do my job honestly and try and give real values of gifts etc. 
Most of the time it's the sales reps who cause the tours to go long...


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## timeos2 (May 21, 2010)

a-vegas-opc said:


> off
> property
> consultant
> 
> ...



Or the alternative:

Offsite
Phony 
Clown 

They will promise anything to get you into the tour as that's how they get their (hard earned) money.  Of all the Weasels in the chain these are the poorest paid and one of the hardest working to get those few dollars.


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## a-vegas-opc (May 21, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> Or the alternative:
> 
> Offsite
> Phony
> ...



well we are the poorest paid and hardest working but we aren't all dishonest


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## tlwmkw (May 21, 2010)

Back to the original discussion.  You imply that somehow Westgate isn't really in charge of this resort but there is another thread on TUG that says that Westgate is being sued by the builders for $19 million (it quots the Las Vegas Sun).  If Westgate isn't in charge of this resort then why is their name all over the place and why are they named in the suit?  I guess what I'm asking is what are you saying in your original post exactly?  Are you still working there or not?  I'm a bit confused.  Sorry.


tlwmkw


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## DeniseM (May 21, 2010)

tlwmkw said:


> Are you still working there or not?  I'm a bit confused.  Sorry.
> 
> 
> tlwmkw



From the original post:


> I am a Westgate employee. Or that is I used to be... I make more money working for a different resort and they treat us well.


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## a-vegas-opc (May 21, 2010)

tlwmkw said:


> Back to the original discussion.  You imply that somehow Westgate isn't really in charge of this resort but there is another thread on TUG that says that Westgate is being sued by the builders for $19 million (it quots the Las Vegas Sun).  If Westgate isn't in charge of this resort then why is their name all over the place and why are they named in the suit?  I guess what I'm asking is what are you saying in your original post exactly?  Are you still working there or not?  I'm a bit confused.  Sorry.
> 
> 
> tlwmkw



well let me try and use an analogy here:

often times a governmental agency will build and own a building like a school or other type of building. They may not be in the business or managing whatever goes on there so they hire out or co tract or make a partnership with a company to run the operations.

So aside from dealing with timeshare people, Westgate owns the building however the day to day hotel operations are run by harrahs. So the person who checks you in works for harrahs. The groundskeeper and the person at the bar? Harrahs. The pool cleaning crew, harrahs. The timeshare reps? Wg. The way they run it is to have the timeshare owners (Westgate or otherwise) assigned reps for that dreaded "owners meeting" and the reps all wait for their owners or traders to check in. From there on the rep acts as personal concierge the entire trip. 

Goto any travel website and book a room for ph towers as a hotel though and you will be dealing pretty much 100% with harrahs people aside from guest services which is wg.

Talk about a bad setup for the entire property. You have:
1. Harrahs
2. Westgate
3. Miracle mile shops
4. Peehsows owners
5. David saxe who owns the theatre in the mall

five different ownership groups. People all think they are the same and it can be really annoying to have to be sent three or four or maybe even five ways to get a final answer on a question.

I understand how people hate my position btw. But trust me when I tell you there are two sides to every coin. Good and bad in every profession.

But wg ran me ragged and I left. Lately the Vegas timeshare Scene is changing rapidly. Wyndham is a joke and there are many companies that run credit checks on you when you try and sign up for the presentation!

Dog eat dog world.


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## tlwmkw (May 21, 2010)

Thanks for clarifying!  You are saying that Westgate developed the resort and is doing the marketing but Harrahs is the management company.  You no longer work there at all but just wanted to let everyone know this and hence your post.  Got it.

tlwmkw


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## a-vegas-opc (May 21, 2010)

*Marketing...*



tlwmkw said:


> Thanks for clarifying!  You are saying that Westgate developed the resort and is doing the marketing but Harrahs is the management company.  You no longer work there at all but just wanted to let everyone know this and hence your post.  Got it.
> 
> tlwmkw



well hotel marketing is harrahs. Like whether or not it's promoted on a travel website etc. 
Timeshare marketing is westgate. 

There is so much more I could say but David siegel loves his lawyers
I had no idea the bastards house was up for sale. 
Shortsale? I bet it is. Foreclosure is public and he'd want to avoid that!


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## dougp26364 (May 25, 2010)

Somehow or another, most of the OPC's I've spoken with have very little clue as to the underpinnings of a timeshare operation. You may believe you're being honest but, if what you're going on is what has been spoonfed to you buy Westgate, sorry, you're getting information form a developer we've all come to understand as not having the most knowledgable or honest sales staff. Westgate management will give you what they believe you need to tell people to funnel them into the sales floor. You're on a need to know basis and an OPC doesn't need to know much. 

Westgate's finger prints are all over this project. If you buy the thought that Westgate's name is the only thing Westgate about this resort, I have some property I'd like to sell you. Better yet, I have a buyer for every timeshare unit at the Tower of Terror. All you have to do is send me $695 for every unit you want to sell and I'll list them on a web site. Trust me, we have buyers just waiting to buy all the inventory you can pay an upfront fee on. 

I have no doubt OPC's are trying to do an honest job. The problem is, you're only as good as the information you've been given. With Westgate, you have to consider your source.


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## Art (May 25, 2010)

Doug

I think you are being bit harsh.  That multiple participant thing is quite common  in hotel real estate.  Take a look at Marriott hotels; a lot of time the only Marriott  role is to collect money for allowing its name to be on the door.  A local partnership operates  the hotel, and someone else owns the building. If  someone becomes unhappy about something, the hotel is suddenly a Hilton or Best Western or who  knows  what.

Art


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## dougp26364 (May 26, 2010)

Art said:


> Doug
> 
> I think you are being bit harsh.  That multiple participant thing is quite common  in hotel real estate.  Take a look at Marriott hotels; a lot of time the only Marriott  role is to collect money for allowing its name to be on the door.  A local partnership operates  the hotel, and someone else owns the building. If  someone becomes unhappy about something, the hotel is suddenly a Hilton or Best Western or who  knows  what.
> 
> Art



I don't think so. I end up talking with at least one OPC pretty much every vacation we take. That's 6 to 8 trips per year. I have yet to run into one that knows anything past what the developers have spoon fed them. 

There are mutiple layers of management with the TOT but, the timeshare portion of this project is managed by Westgate. The hotel accomadations might be Harrah's ballgame but the timeshare end of it belongs to Westgate.

The easy way to find out how sharp the average OPC is would be to hit the street and talk with a few. This happens to us pretty much every time we're on vacation. Try as we might, one always manages to catch us. I always figure if I have to talk with one, I'm going to pick their brains a bit. Consolidated OPC's and Westgate OPC's have never impressed me as being very well informed. Consolidated's OPC's have probably been the least informed about for whom they are working than any I've ever met. Westgates are right up there.

If you want to believe that a former Westgate OPC has knowledge of how the Tower is managed that's fine. But in the end, it's Westgate managing the timeshare portion of the property. If you doubt that then purchase a week there and find out who you get to deal with. My bet is you'll find out it's Westgate and not Harrah's.


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## a-vegas-opc (May 29, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> I don't think so. I end up talking with at least one OPC pretty much every vacation we take. That's 6 to 8 trips per year. I have yet to run into one that knows anything past what the developers have spoon fed them.



While i won't argue that you are completely wrong (because you aren't) i will point out that once in a while there is that one employee that is forced into a company where they'd rather not be. Like that older gentleman at walmart who actually knows hardware or the fishing rods he is selling, or the Toyota mechanic that knows how to fix and not screw the customer that works for the dealership... And I am one of these people.
Nice to meet you.*



> There are mutiple layers of management with the TOT but, the timeshare portion of this project is managed by Westgate. The hotel accomadations might be Harrah's ballgame but the timeshare end of it belongs to Westgate.



You reiterate my point. The point being that Westgate should not be solely to blame for the day to day that causes dirty rooms or poor room service. Westgate is a timeshare company who has no business running a 1200 unit hotel tower.



> The easy way to find out how sharp the average OPC is would be to hit the street and talk with a few. This happens to us pretty much every time we're on vacation. Try as we might, one always manages to catch us. I always figure if I have to talk with one, I'm going to pick their brains a bit. Consolidated OPC's and Westgate OPC's have never impressed me as being very well informed. Consolidated's OPC's have probably been the least informed about for whom they are working than any I've ever met. Westgates are right up there.



well I come from the street. Westgate hired me to run a freelance operation across from one of their conventional casino spots. We managed to fill more tour times than anyone in the company, and then lehman brothers happened and things changed.

Suffice it to say I have a strong understanding *of what's going on. Consolidated were in the dark. They had the worst management and actually were sellig so many bad loans and doing so many tours that it was not so unusual for a Tahiti village opc to earn $200,000 a year.*
They took tours who were obviously on a permanent disability or in other ways super under or completely unqualified.*
This went on after Goldman Sachs bought them, and it was a matter of time before it imploded.

Westgate right now is in a quagmire. They have been told by their banks that they must close their main sales room two days a week.*
This likely means that the VPG (volume per guest, the numer used to quantify an average timeshare sale over time) is not where it needs to be and rather than limit tours per day they chose to close the sales room two days a week. *

Westgate has over 600 lawsuits against them. Some small, some large and rumor has it that king David is going to be indicted for something g similar to insider trading / ponzi scheme.*
They have liquidated all their non timeshare assets and every three months a rep from the banks that fund wg come to las Vegas. Oh yeah, they run your credit when you are signing up for a tour. They just look you and your spouse up via name and address. You are graded and scored and a yes or no is given to you.*



> If you want to believe that a former Westgate OPC has knowledge of how the Tower is managed that's fine. But in the end, it's Westgate managing the timeshare portion of the property. If you doubt that then purchase a week there and find out who you get to deal with. My bet is you'll find out it's Westgate and not Harrah's.



Yeah. I obviously know nothing at all...
</sarcasim>


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## Kagehitokiri2 (May 30, 2010)

*a-vegas-opc*, have any of the 20 residential penthouses sold?

(i guess this was partly an example of westgate hunting for cash?)


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## a-vegas-opc (May 30, 2010)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> *a-vegas-opc*, have any of the 20 residential penthouses sold?
> 
> (i guess this was partly an example of westgate hunting for cash?)



As far as anyone knows, no however King David claims that sylvester stallone has purchased one and the wg sales people point out a photo of David and Stallone during their pitch. 

I know VIPs stay there. Actual celebrities etc. 

The largest single timeshare purchase there was $249,000 with a full 10% down. 
Some Westgate sales people can sell $250k or more a month but may not get paid on many sales because Westgate has an interesting pay system for their sales reps and opc's.


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## dougp26364 (May 30, 2010)

a-vegas-opc said:


> While i won't argue that you are completely wrong (because you aren't) i will point out that once in a while there is that one employee that is forced into a company where they'd rather not be. Like that older gentleman at walmart who actually knows hardware or the fishing rods he is selling, or the Toyota mechanic that knows how to fix and not screw the customer that works for the dealership... And I am one of these people.
> Nice to meet you.*
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I'll say this, you know more than the typical OPC I speak with off the street. 

Consolidated was a fun outfit and their OPC's were the more interesting (and dumbest) to mess with if they got their hooks into me. One ticked me off so bad I kept him busy talking with me for the better part of an hour. His boss finally figured out what I was doing and literally had to pull him away from me. If he'd have just taken my "No thank you" and left me alone, I'd have never engaged him in conversation. It wasn't anything angry. I just kept talking and talking and talking. He never figured out I was just wasting his time but his boss eventually did. It was funny that he was so intent on signing just that one couple up that he allowed dozens of other couples to walk by.


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## a-vegas-opc (May 30, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Well, I'll say this, you know more than the typical OPC I speak with off the street.
> 
> Consolidated was a fun outfit and their OPC's were the more interesting (and dumbest) to mess with if they got their hooks into me. One ticked me off so bad I kept him busy talking with me for the better part of an hour. His boss finally figured out what I was doing and literally had to pull him away from me. If he'd have just taken my "No thank you" and left me alone, I'd have never engaged him in conversation. It wasn't anything angry. I just kept talking and talking and talking. He never figured out I was just wasting his time but his boss eventually did. It was funny that he was so intent on signing just that one couple up that he allowed dozens of other couples to walk by.




A lot of timeshare employees are now a days on a comission vs hourly plan and many of them care less whether or not they make any comission. 

I've made an hourly wage two times in five years and I blame Westgate for that. 
Actually, the average opc may make $600 a week while the good ones make around $3000 and more a week, but many of the wg employees are nit familiar with what a timeshare tour is actually worth in the "real world" as all they know is Westgate. They have no idea that one sale for a $50k unit nets so much money. If they knew that they would no doubt revolt. 

In Vegas the couple is worth $40 (westgates pay) to $280 (other promotions pay this to a broker who pays the opc less) but wg had to impliment so many rules to continue to be financed that i seriously Question their financial situation at this point.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (May 31, 2010)

if they ever build tower 2, and finish the penthouse residences, id love to rent one.  
last i checked they had not set min lease yet.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 1, 2010)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> if they ever build tower 2, and finish the penthouse residences, id love to rent one.
> last i checked they had not set min lease yet.



Right now that's a big if. As far as I understand, everything in Vegas is either on hold or cancelled. I believe Wyndham cancelled their latest project. Hilton cancelled it's Lake Las Vegas progect and has towers 3 & 4 of it's HGVC LV Strip property on hold. Marriott has towers 3 & 4 on hold for Grand Chateau. Until the economy imroves and credit markets loosen up a little further, I don't see a lot of new builds going forward or even existing builds reaching proposed completion.


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## a-vegas-opc (Jun 1, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> Right now that's a big if. As far as I understand, everything in Vegas is either on hold or cancelled. I believe Wyndham cancelled their latest project. Hilton cancelled it's Lake Las Vegas progect and has towers 3 & 4 of it's HGVC LV Strip property on hold. Marriott has towers 3 & 4 on hold for Grand Chateau. Until the economy imroves and credit markets loosen up a little further, I don't see a lot of new builds going forward or even existing builds reaching proposed completion.



Vegas seems to be in a different era of it's evolution, the renovation era.
Right now Steve wynn is finishing up major renos on the encore while the Luxor is finishing up it's renos. The trop is coming along with a $150 million makeover and the major projects on hold are:

fountainbleau
wyndham behind the rio
Caesars palace octavious tower (built, empty inside)
parts of city center (veer towers)

hgv is interesting. A friend of mines wife sells hgv timeshare and while they do have lots of $$$ hilton is very content with a simple mini vacation program and phone sales, not booths on the strip. They were like that before the bust tho.

Summer bay is also renovating btw.

The cosmopolitan opens this December and jockey club owners are lucky because it will share the 40,000 sq ft spa/pool/fitness center with cosmopolitan.

There are other major projects but this isn't a vegas thread it's a timeshare thread.

Oh, interestingly Tahiti village isndoing steady tours now, all inhouse but rumor has it the company that markets them is going to come back with all new financing and a new business entity (they went 100% insolvent) / business name later this year.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Jun 1, 2010)

not necessarily unlikely way down the road. OTOH all it adds is rooftop private pool, which is awesome shared by so few units. but i would still look at renting even if they never do tower 2. wonder what their plans are to deal with residences if they havent sold any yet. maybe eventually finish one or a couple for models? or will they just cancel them? IIRC theyre on top 4 floors.

its harmon thats on hold, not veer. looking forward to it too.
octavius recently opened 3 villas.

im also hoping wynn does something small with pool when he eventually develops golf course.

http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/construction_stats.htm


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## tlwmkw (Jun 1, 2010)

Slightly off topic but also of interest- if you Google "David Siegals Mansion" there are pictures of the said "house".  It is unfinished but on the market for $75 million.  Check the pictures out- it is ridiculously over the top and ugly (suits the ego of the builder I guess).  He has named it Versailles!  I guess he has the same motto as Louis XIV- "L'etat, c'est moi" (the state it is me).  I'll be surprised if they can find anyone to take this project on at such a high price.  I would post a link but don't know how to do that.  (the article and pictures are in the Orlando paper).

tlwmk


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Jun 1, 2010)

thats his place?

i remember seeing this. the footprint is ridiculous - like a condo or hotel, and he had 10 ACRES to build on.


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## a-vegas-opc (Jun 1, 2010)

Well he put it on hold at first. This is the guy that introduces himself to employees as "hi, I'm the guy that signs your checks"

a total aprehensible sonofabitch to be honest. 
I personally HATE HIM and I don't hate people, really!


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## a-vegas-opc (Jun 1, 2010)

Something to consider:

If siegel is a BILLIONARE then selling his home for $75 million would indicate henis pretty much broke. 

That's like a millionare selling a home for $75,000 to help him out. It's illogical to do if siegel was really still worth anything.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Jun 1, 2010)

theoretically other possibilities include - he got bored or decided the small footprint was a mistake


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## a-vegas-opc (Jun 1, 2010)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> theoretically other possibilities include - he got bored or decided the small footprint was a mistake



Doubtful. He also sold one of his jets which seems desperation to me.


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## Kagehitokiri2 (Jun 1, 2010)

indeed, a jet moreso, as they and yachts are more about operating, maintenance, depreciation.

but with properties, a lot of people seem to buy/sell constantly, even properties they just heavily personalized and barely lived in, and theyre not even making money on the sales.


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## a-vegas-opc (Jun 1, 2010)

Kagehitokiri2 said:


> indeed, a jet moreso, as they and yachts are more about operating, maintenance, depreciation.
> 
> but with properties, a lot of people seem to buy/sell constantly, even properties they just heavily personalized and barely lived in, and theyre not even making money on the sales.




The jets he bought used to start with however the home was what he defined himself by and he said it was his dream home 20 plus years in the making. 

You never walk away from the dream home. That and the non timeshare assets he is selling it sounds to me like a fire sale to stay afloat however to what end? 

If the class action lawsuits against Westgate for over time pay go through that I'll be the straw that breaks their backs and maybe that's what he's prepping for With these recent sales.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 15, 2013)

Searched long and hard to resurrect a 3 year old thread


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## Rent_Share (Feb 5, 2015)

Searched long and hard to resurrect a 4+ year old thread, cluless


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## DeniseM (Feb 10, 2015)

The posts that David referred to have been deleted and banned.


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