# [Starwood] question regarding buying Timeshares on ebay vs. a rep from the resort



## cruzad3r (Oct 6, 2011)

Hello, this is my first post so i hope i articulate my question clear enough so other veteran Timeshare owners can help answer.

I found several Mandatory resort timeshares for sale on ebay at an incredible low price. I also looked through the fine print on their posting regarding usage week, available staroption, 2011 MF fees are paid, $500 or less closing cost and there are some instances where no closing cost involved, transfer title cost about 50 dollars or less and again some cases where this is paid by seller. 

So my question is, how come these deals are so cheap. Assuming that i can buy a Mandatory resort, 2 BR lock off with all the MF fees, closing cost, MISC fees add up to $3K or less, that's a fraction of a price compare to what i would've paid through a developer rep.

Usually when the deal is too good to be true, there's a whole load of trouble/issue coming along with it. That's why i turn to you Vet. Timeshares owners for clarification and advice. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Passepartout (Oct 6, 2011)

The short answer is: yes, those eBay prices you see are legit. We have been preaching 'Buy Resale, save thousands' for years. Now I know there are certain perks in the Starwood system that only come with buying from the developer, but they are worth nowhere close to the price difference.

Welcome to TUG! Stick around, read the forums and learn before you buy any timeshares.

Jim Ricks


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## cruzad3r (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks Jim for the quick response. being on multiple forums (mostly automotive), i was afraid no one would answer me due to my "new-ness account". 

is there any more information you can give me regarding this issue?


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 6, 2011)

There are bargains out there, but there are also traps.  Take your time, research carefully, and consider visiting the resorts you are considering (this kind of on-site research is not at all painful).  This BBS has a wealth of information; spend a couple of months at minimum before you jump in.  Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Prices are not going up in this economy so you need not feel rushed. It is much easier to buy than to sell.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

that's the point, how are people selling their TS at such low price? unless they can't pay the MF and other MISC fees, i don't see any reason to sell.

is there any tips/advice that you can give me on how to properly research resale timeshare on ebay?


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## Passepartout (Oct 7, 2011)

We're a pretty friendly bunch. Lots of newbies eventually find us. Sometimes after they have spent 10X or waaay more than they needed to to buy a TS. Then they ask for help 'getting out' of a bad decision. Once a contract is signed and the cooling off period is over this is difficult.

Those eBay (and other places) sellers get their inventory from owners- some of which actually PAY them to list and help them get rid of an expensive and/or unused timeshare. They are easy to buy and can be very hard to get rid of, so be sure before you buy.

The TUG wisdom is to always buy resale. To buy where you want to use at least half the time. To never finance a TS- or any luxury good. To be comfortable that the maintenance fee will always increase, and will come due about the end of the year- along with the holiday bills.

Study the newbies and other forums that interest you. Maybe rent a TS or 2 (the TUG marketplace up in the red stripe above is a good place to do this). When you get some specific questions that you can't find the answers to (though I can't imagine anything timeshare that hasn't been covered) -try the search feature. Present the specifics and most likely someone will help. We're like that.

Happy reading!

Jim


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> that's the point, how are people selling their TS at such low price? unless they can't pay the MF and other MISC fees, i don't see any reason to sell.
> 
> is there any tips/advice that you can give me on how to properly research resale timeshare on ebay?



Many sales result from people selling the timeshares they bought in high pressure sales presentations that they never should have bought.  Other sales result from life changes:  death, divorce, poor health, loss of income, etc.  Unfortunately for all of these sellers, they are selling into a very weak market.  Vacation properties are very cyclical and many potential buyers are afraid to buy in this economy. 

eBay is tough.  Many ads have errors, some innocent, others not so innocent.  You need to know enough about the property in question to know if the ad is correct.  Some of that you can learn here:  read about the properties, the fees; ask questions.  Pay the $15 TUG membership fee so you will have access to resort ratings and reviews.  Read about the sellers; some have excellent reputations, others are to be avoided no matter what they are selling at what price.  Mostly, take your time at the outset.


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## gravitar (Oct 7, 2011)

Don't forget, ebay timeshare sales are not binding. If you find that what you bid on and won is not as it was advertised, you can walk away.


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2011)

I think you'd be shocked at how ignorant and/or lazy some people are.

We recently had a visitor from an owner who'd bought a Starwood unit from the developer over 6 years ago and didn't even know the name of the resort she'd bought (which she plunked down over $20M for), let alone the phase (which made a huge difference because 2 of the phases were mandatory).  She'd never called SVN to ask for advice on how to land exchanges at high demand resorts.  She'd never bothered to open her free II account, let alone learn the ropes or use it to optimize her ownership.

It boggles the mind, but it's true. 

I know two people who own timeshares (and presumably pay the MFs every year) but never use it.  I'm sure either would give the unit to me if I expressed interest in it.  (I'm not.)

And then you have the people who are just too lazy or intimidated by the thought of having to sell it to strangers to try and sell it on their own.  SVN won't help them.  So they do a Google search, see the Google ads that scare them into thinking that they need to pay someone to get the unit off their hands, and voila! Or maybe a persuasive salesman has called them and convinced them that it's not worth anything.  

FWIW, I just purchased a 2 bdrm at SVV-Bella worth 81,000 SOs for $1250. How much the owner received of that remains a mystery, but I doubt anything.  I guess his ignorance is my gain.

My advice is to look for sellers who have high ratings, and use a reputable escrow company.


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## jdds (Oct 7, 2011)

I have a unit for sale on ebay right now (can't say what it is!) and the reason I'm selling it is because I no longer live in an area that makes traveling to it feasible and also my job has made it difficult for me to travel every year. So, I switched up my portfolio and own every other year units and am getting rid of my annual unit at a cheapo price. The market dictates what you have to sell it for. I get so angry at some of the ebay ads because, as others said, many of the ads are riddled with errors. I tried really hard to be thorough in my ad to help sell it, but I also can't beat the companies that had people pay them to take their units off of their hands and then they turn around and sell the unit on ebay for $1!


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> FWIW, I just purchased a 2 bdrm at SVV-Bella worth 81,000 SOs for $1250. How much the owner received of that remains a mystery, but I doubt anything.  I guess his ignorance is my gain.



that's is an AMAZING price because i know the same unit with less SO (~67000) is going for $18k from the developer. Lisa, if you can send me more information about this or any tips you've used (i know there are hidden secrets ) that would be super helpful. Thanks in advance.




jdds said:


> I have a unit for sale on ebay right now (can't say what it is!) and the reason I'm selling it is because I no longer live in an area that makes traveling to it feasible and also my job has made it difficult for me to travel every year. So, I switched up my portfolio and own every other year units and am getting rid of my annual unit at a cheapo price. The market dictates what you have to sell it for. I get so angry at some of the ebay ads because, as others said, many of the ads are riddled with errors. I tried really hard to be thorough in my ad to help sell it, but I also can't beat the companies that had people pay them to take their units off of their hands and then they turn around and sell the unit on ebay for $1!



if you want to hit me up with a PM about this, i'm more than happy to talk to you in term of buying. 

I truly appreciate everyone chiming in and helping a new potential owner like me. - Jake


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## C30NY (Oct 7, 2011)

I just passed on an EOY 81K at Bella with 81,000 staroptions for $600.  I worry that I will have a hard time using StarOptions at WSJ & HRA, and the rest of my travel (WLR, Vegas, etc...) seems like it can be done with exchanges for lower MF's.  I wish I could have grabbed a HRA from the sightings board today!


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

anyone buy TS on ebay that want to recommend the seller? is it's against forum TOU, you can simply PM me. however, i'm not sure why it would be against forum TOU (term of use) though.


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## grgs (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> anyone buy TS on ebay that want to recommend the seller?



You could review this section of TUG:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

If there's a particular seller you're looking at, you can search TUG and see what others have said.  

Glorian


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

thanks - there are sections on this forum that i haven't even discover yet!


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## Passepartout (Oct 7, 2011)

You might consider buying from a TUGger. Another thing to consider: Paying $15 to join TUG. Members have access to reviews of thousands of TSs and the Sightings and Distressed listings. There are some little seen jewels there only available to members.

It seems like you've caught the TS bug. I'd caution you to not jump right in. Take a while learn about TS. Rent a few. Many can be rented for less than their underlying MF.  Prices are not about to make a huge leap. There is no hurry and if you hold out you can get exactly what you and your family can enjoy for a long time.

Jim


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> that's is an AMAZING price because i know the same unit with less SO (~67000) is going for $18k from the developer. Lisa, if you can send me more information about this or any tips you've used (i know there are hidden secrets ) that would be super helpful. Thanks in advance.



I just searched "Sheraton Vistana" (don't include "villages" because some people don't include it in their listing) and searched for offers that were for either Key West or Bella, EOY odd.  Then I made sure that the seller had sold a lot of properties and had a great rating. 

I bid on a few properties before getting the one I own.  I used e-snipe to avoid getting in a bidding war.  I set the price I was comfortable with and then let the e-snipe software do the bidding.  I recommend this so that you don't get into a bidding war, especially with a shill bidder.  

There are (or were) also a few modestly priced SVV units on Redweek. But you have to pay the $9.95 fee to join before they'll allow you to see the ads.  Be prepared to send emails to the owners verifying that they are in a mandatory phase and that they own a platinum week. 

Good luck.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

so the back story is this:

during the summer i was down in florida and i sat through their sales pitch. i want to buy something that i can give my children when they're older so they can enjoy, at the same time enjoy it while i can as well. so i'm serious about making this investment. with that in mind, i didn't commit at the end of the sale for one reason: i didn't know what TS is all about. I didn't know what I should ask for or how to negotiate. SO i decline but at the end, they hook me in with an explorer package. this is to lock in the price and added some extra Starpoints as reward if i close. 

So now that i've done my research, i understand more about TS (all thanks to you kind folks and this forum) i want to explore my option. Part of me want to buy from resale then make another purchase from the developer to re qualify and become the Elite status. AGain the benefits of converting to starpoints and waived fees are very enticing. 

I know that if i buy from Mandatory resort, all those SO are transferable. TO this point, there's a nice unit on ebay that i think is very reasonable to buy. so now you understand why i ask about buying TS on ebay vs. the developer.


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## C30NY (Oct 7, 2011)

I sat through a presentation at lagunamar and regardless of the unit and how many options I purchased, they were going to give me 3*.  At the same time I asked about requal and they said the developer purchase had to be greater than $30k to qualify for a requal.  Not sure if you heard the same thing.  So anyway...unless you are buying big and requalifying big, I'm not sure you will get to 4 or 5*...and even then the debate about it's 'worth' are continuing, and im no where near qualified to debate that.  Your goal may also be to just have a lot of SO's yearly to spend.

I guess it's gonna boil down to where you are trying to go, is trading with the starwood preference in II with a non-mandatory and possibly lower MFs an option (flexibly and availability wise), and your ultimate goal.

You are doing good learning here first.  I have learned a tremendous amount from the boards and continue to do so daily.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!

Jase


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2011)

If you requalify a purchase, you don't have to buy a mandatory property.  In fact, your best bet is to buy a much cheaper voluntary resort, such as Platinum SDO, and requalify it when you make your developer purchase.

However.  Do not get lured by salesmen.  There is very little gain from achieving elite status, unless you want to go all the way to 5 star. 

My advice is to dip your toe in before diving in. There is absolutely no rush.  The economy is still in the tank, timeshare prices are dropping, and MFs will be due in a few weeks.


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## DeniseM (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> i want to buy something that i can give my children when they're older so they can enjoy, at the same time enjoy it while i can as well. so i'm serious about making this investment. with that in mind,



I would not buy for this reason - period.  If you want to own and use a timeshare now, for yourself, and for your children as guests - it's a great plan.  But do not buy something with the intention of handing it down to your kids.  To be quite honest we get a regular string of new heirs here who are unhappy to be saddled with dad's timeshare as an inheritance.  Remember - you will also be saddling them with the obligation for paying the maintenance fee for all eternity.

As far as requalifying, there is little value in it unless you are going all the way to 5 Star elite which is an expensive proposition.  Paying $20,000 just for the privilege of converting to Starpoints and waiving a few fees isn't a good value.  

This is my advice - forget everything the sales people told you, and start fresh doing your homework here on TUG.  Timeshare sales people will say whatever they think it takes to make the sale - they have a tendency to glorify the perks of buying from the developer, way beyond their actual value.  (Including buying from the developer to requalify.)


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## Passepartout (Oct 7, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> As far as requalifying, there is little value in it unless you are going all the way to 5 Star elite which is an expensive proposition.  Paying $20,000 just for the privilege of converting to Starpoints and waiving a few fees isn't a good value.
> 
> This is my advice - forget everything the sales people told you, and start fresh doing your homework here on TUG.  Timeshare sales people will say whatever they think it takes to make the sale - they have a tendency to glorify the perks of buying from the developer, way beyond their actual value.



*Cruzad3r*, re-read what DeniseM has said. It's what I was alluding to in post #2. There are some perks for buying from a developer, but they aren't worth the cost. Not by a mile.

I'd also point out that Starwood is not the only quality TS outfit out there. Do your homework. Buy on your terms, not theirs.

Good Luck!

JIm


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 7, 2011)

*Were The Timeshare Sellers' Lips Moving When They Said Buying One Is An Investment ?*




cruzad3r said:


> i'm serious about making this investment.


No way timeshare ownership is an investment. 

Not only that, timeshare ownership is also not prepaid vacation accommodations, even though the full-freight timeshare sellers like to plant the idea that by buying what they're selling you're "locking in" future vacation costs at today's rates. 

The reason timeshares aren't prepaid vacations is that timeshare ownership alone -- _mox nix_ whether you pay a little or a lot or even if get your timeshare(s) _el freebo_ -- gets you nothing.  

Even when your timeshare deed is all paid off & you own your timeshare free & clear, before you can check in when you show up, your ongoing maintenance fees have to be all paid up.  Ditto any special assessments, which timeshare owners sometimes get socked with.   Typically, annual maintenance fees go up over time. 

It's those on going timeshare maintenance fees year in & year out that are the true cost of timeshare vacationing.  You don't have to show up & check in every year, but you have to keep on paying those maintenance fees come hell or high water.  

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better than the full-freight timeshares. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

so what is the true *benefit* of owning a timeshare?

for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> so what is the true *benefit* of owning a timeshare?
> 
> for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.



IMHO, timesharing is a state of mind, and only works if you are flexible in your travel plans and dedicated to actually taking the time off to enjoy what you bought.

For us, it gives us the feeling of pre-allocated (not pre-paid!) vacations each year that we try to maximize the perceived value (to us, not necessarily to others) of what we pay that year in return for ~8 weeks of holidays.

Excluding the up-front purchase costs, I estimate we set aside about 20% of our net income as out-of-pocket towards holidays.  We pretty much book all major transportation and accommodations on points of some kind, some earned elsewhere, some converted from our SVN ownerships.

We get bigger/better rooms in the destinations that we want to go to (both on the villa side in SVN and on the hotel side in SPG), and are happy with the current costs.  We are staying in much nicer rooms than we used to, for about 50% more per night cost (including our up-front purchaes costs) as compared to what we used to pay for regular hotel rooms.

I'm confident that some of our friends would pee themselves if they knew how much we put towards holidays, but on the other hand, they're always excited to hear about our latest trip.


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## LisaRex (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> so what is the true *benefit* of owning a timeshare?



For me, it was knowing that the quality of the place was going to be up to par.  I rented a lot of units on Maui and each time I did (and brought friends), I'd stress out about it.  Buying at the Westin meant that I knew ahead of time exactly what I'd be getting.  

Of course, I could accomplish the same thing renting at the Westin.  Hindsight and all that.


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## C30NY (Oct 7, 2011)

I have been timesharing for nearly 30 years now...starting when my father purchased a very expensive Timeshare in Key West when I was very young (coincidentally the only one he ever got his "investment" back on) and I believe I am now doing it for the same reason he did, it can be substantially cheaper for my family and provide better accommodations than the cost and quality of a hotel room.  There are savings to be had when you prepare some or all of your own meals in the room (some do and some don't, I eat out at dinner but eat in the rest of the time unless we are away from the unit).  Try to find a hotel room or same unit at any of these places for the same price many of us pay in MF's, exchange costs and II/RCI memberships.  I dont think I have found an instance where it will be less (unless you find a last minute deal or someone just looking to get something back for their week rather than it being unused).  As Lisa also said...you know what you are getting when you trade or stay within a network (Starwood or Marriott for example). Its also great for us because we do travel many times a year (at least two full weeks) and know what the cost is going to be upfront for the unit.  If money is a little tight, we may not fly somewhere but rather go somewhere local in peak season (like the Adirondacks, New England, cape cod).

I know some people who dont own but prefer to rent.  This way they arent committed to yearly expenses and can travel as they see fit.  We commit because we are committed to travel.  Its easier for us.


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 7, 2011)

*Hooked On Timeshares.*




cruzad3r said:


> so what is the true *benefit* of owning a timeshare?
> 
> for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.


By us, the main benefit is spacious & luxurious vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates. 

Not sure what you're getting at in typing you can only stay there once a week. 

One week of use per year is standard -- also, 1 week every 2 years at biennial timeshares & a week just once every 3 years at triennials. 

Lock-off timeshares make it possible to take 2 weeks of timeshare vacation for 1 maintenance fee payment.  Reserve the "A" unit for now & save the adjoining "B" unit for later in the year.  

The deeded feature means you can keep on using your timeshare week year after year (or biennially or triennially, as the case may be), just so long as you make your maintenance fee payments.  But with timeshares, you're getting a vacation condo for your family, unlike the "Four Bs" that are all you get with a hotel (Bed, Bath, Bible, Bill).   

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 7, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> so what is the true *benefit* of owning a timeshare?
> 
> for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.



we love our SVO timeshares and resorts (but not so much the MFs) - but to make the most of TSing you really need to be able to plan your vacations in advance (and be able to afford to vacation) - it is hard to make TSing useful if you are a last minute traveler - unless you are savvy and rent from those owners that couldn't use their TS... (and know which are the good TS for your vacation needs).

write off the explorer package as a lesson learned - at least you didn't pay full freight - as Alan calls it...

if you decide on a TS - buy your 1st (if not all) using the resale market.  there is a lot of excellent value out there - the secret is spending the time/effort in finding it.

not sure I know what you mean by... "and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week."  it means exactly what it is - you own a deeded week (1/523 of a year) that can be resold - you can't resale a week in hotel room - of course that also puts you on the hook for MFs and special assessments and taxes...


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## cruzad3r (Oct 7, 2011)

thanks to all who answered the "benefits" question.  

As for those who answered the orignial question of buying TS on ebay vs. from a developer, i think the bottom line is to buy from resale but at the same time do your best to investigate and make sure it's legit. But i guess i'm don't totally understand the true meaing of buying resale ( in term of total package benefits) other than it's cheaper than buying from a developer. Seeing that i still have to pay the MF and all the MISC fees and not being able to convert to Starpoints or transfer Staroption unless it's a mandatory unit, i'm not sure if that's really good for long term usage. I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption. This begs the question of what exactly is involved and the owner rights when buying from resale. If people can chime in on this, i think that's super helpful.

thanks folks, this has been really helpful!


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## YYJMSP (Oct 8, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> thanks to all who answered the "benefits" question.
> 
> As for those who answered the orignial question of buying TS on ebay vs. from a developer, i think the bottom line is to buy from resale but at the same time do your best to investigate and make sure it's legit. But i guess i'm don't totally understand the true meaing of buying resale ( in term of total package benefits) other than it's cheaper than buying from a developer. Seeing that i still have to pay the MF and all the MISC fees and not being able to convert to Starpoints or transfer Staroption unless it's a mandatory unit, i'm not sure if that's really good for long term usage. I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption. This begs the question of what exactly is involved and the owner rights when buying from resale. If people can chime in on this, i think that's super helpful.
> 
> thanks folks, this has been really helpful!



Probably an overly simplified answer, but here goes.

Buying a mandatory resale is the same as buying from the developer, with the exception of:

- you lose the ability to convert your ownership to SPG points
- your StarOptions do not count towards SVN Elite membership
- you save $20K  

Buying a voluntary resale is a completely different story, as you also lose the StarOptions/ability to trade within SVN, leaving you with using your ownership within the season/unit type at the property you own, or exchanging through an external company.


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## DeniseM (Oct 8, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.



Trading your timeshare with Starwood is not the only game in town.  You can still trade a voluntary timeshare, you just use an outside exchange company like Interval International or RCI.

Starwood owners have priority for Starwood trades with Interval, so you can easily trade your week for just about any Starwood resort, except school holidays, Westin St. John, and Harborside - those a tougher trades.

For more info. about buying a cheap resale and trading in II, read this current thread about buying at SDO - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155981

Also, have you had a chance to read any of the info. stickies at the top of this forum - those will help, too.


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 8, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.



Yes.  This is the same whether the resort is voluntary or mandatory and the same whether you purchased it from Starwood or resale.


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 8, 2011)

*You Can Rent Out Your Timeshare Week If -- IF -- Your Fees Are All Paid Up.*




cruzad3r said:


> I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.


Correct assumption, just so your maintenance fees are all paid up -- same as when you use your week yourself or deposit it for exchange with I-I or RCI or some other week-swap company.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## cruzad3r (Oct 8, 2011)

so yes, i've read all the FAQ and owner resource as well as the bulletin that was recently revised. That's how i know these terms and some of the concepts otherwise my posts wouldn't make any sense 

i truly think i can leverage the explorer package to make the most of my potential buy with the rep. unless the deal is extremely ridiculous then i'll just use it without buying. 

unless i haven't found it, i don't think the forum has a collective thread where it talks about the highs and lows of buying resale vs. from the rep. unless there aren't much more than what already discussed here, i really think it'll be helpful for any new comer to see the clear distinction between the two purchases.

if such thread does exist, please post link here. otherwise, i hope we can add more useful information so it can help other users.


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## Henry M. (Oct 8, 2011)

Assuming you buy a mandatory unit, the bottom line is that you can't convert to Starpoints when you buy resale. Resale weeks also don't count towards Elite status. On the other hand, you can save about half or more of the initial purchase price.

If you're just starting out, and intend to buy multiple weeks, the most cost effective way would be to first buy resale and then requalify them by buying from the developer. If you don't intend to own several weeks, just enjoy the savings of buying resale. You can buy a lot of hotel nights with the money you save.

If money is no object, then the conversion to Starpoints does give you some flexibility in how you use your weeks, especially if you travel to the nicer Starwood locations.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 8, 2011)

so what do people think is a good price buying a 2br lock off from SVR or a 2br lock off from SVV from the developer? 

i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?

and money is always an object  but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone


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## VacationForever (Oct 8, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Correct assumption, just so your maintenance fees are all paid up -- same as when you use your week yourself or deposit it for exchange with I-I or RCI or some other week-swap company.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



To add clarity to this response, you are not allowed to rent/sell an II or RCI traded week.


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 9, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> unless i haven't found it, i don't think the forum has a collective thread where it talks about the highs and lows of buying resale vs. from the rep. unless there aren't much more than what already discussed here, i really think it'll be helpful for any new comer to see the clear distinction between the two purchases.



The benefit of buying resale vs. developer is price, pure and simple.  An enormous difference in price.  For a 2bd Kierland platinum (148,100 SO's), figure $15,000 vs. about $35,000.  For Vistana Villages, $3,000 vs. $2x,000.  These examples are for mandatory Starwood units with transferable SO's.  For Starwood voluntary timeshares, the difference is even greater (one can buy an SDO unit for a dollar for which the original purchaser paid > $10,000).

The differences (in the Starwood system):  the ability to convert into hotel points (StarPoints), qualification for elite status, and non-transferable StarOptions.  It just isn't worth it except for very specific, extraordinary situations.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 9, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> so what do people think is a good price buying a 2br lock off from SVR or a 2br lock off from SVV from the developer?
> 
> i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?
> 
> and money is always an object  but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone



Take in to consideration that a 2BR L/O SVR unit only converts to ~44K SPG points, and a 2BR L/O SVV unit converts to between ~35K and ~55K SPG points (depending on season).

That would only get you like 4 or 5 nights at a SPG5 or SPG4 (i.e. "nicer") property.

The annual MFs on those units are pretty close to what you'd pay for just renting the hotel rooms directly, so it's probably not worth it to pay an extra $20K up-front for a developer unit at those properties for the purposes of SPG conversion...


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## BLUE AYES (Oct 9, 2011)

2 BD L/O at SVV is 95,700 Options. BTW my 2 BD L/O  at SVV Key West cost me  around 25,000 (many years ago, dont remember exact price) my 2 BD at Bella resale with 81,000 options cost me approx. 3,000 two to three years ago and now can be had for less than 2,000.


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?



No, I think you were wooed by the salesman and are trying to convince yourself that you should pay thousands of dollars more than the thing is worth. 

It seems that you are a bit star struck by StarPoints (SPs). So, my first piece of advice (no matter what you decide) is to sign up for an SPG Amex, if you haven't already.  For $65 a year, you can earn 1 StarPoint for every dollar you charge to the card + 1 StarPoint for every dollar charged at Starwood properties.  Once you reach $30,000 spending in one calendar year, you're automatically upgraded to gold SPG status for one year.  Free (or nearly free) SPs! Great deal. 

My second piece of advice is that if you plan to travel internationally and can really get your bang for each StarPoint, consider just purchasing SPs when they go on sale each December.  Normally they retail for 3.5 cents per SP, but in December they've been discounting them 20% to 2.8 cents.  If you can beat that (and many people can in Europe), then go ahead and buy them when they're on sale. You are limited to 20,000 SPs per person, but if you have a spouse, you can gift 20,000 to her and then transfer her points to your account as needed.  For $1120 you can buy 40,000 SPs per year -- no long term commitment or $20,000 investment required.  

BEST CASE scenario if you plunk down $20k for a timeshare from the developer is 2.8 cents per dollar, and that is on the condition that MFs don't increase. (Ha!)

Oh, and here are some things your salesman might not have told you:

1) SPs earned by SVO conversion (or bonus SPs given to incentivize you to buy a timeshare from the developer) expire in 6 years.   

2) SVO members may only convert their vacation ownership interest(s) into Starpoints in non-consecutive use years. 

3) All maintenance fees, taxes and SVN membership fees are required to be paid in full prior to conversion of the vacation ownership interest into Starpoints.

4) The SP conversion rate is never adjusted.  You'll always get the same number of SPs no matter if MFs increase (and they will) or if Starwood increases the number of SPs needed per night. So your rate of return will be diminished over time. 

5) Many resorts have already reached the point where their conversion rate is worse than what you can buy from SPG.com on sale.  SVR is at the point already. SVV is very close. 

Finally, if you really, really want to buy from the developer, then do yourself a favor and learn about requalifying.  That will mean buying a resale unit FIRST and then buying from the developer SECOND. 

Good luck to you!


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?



What do you mean by "trading for international usage?"

I think you have been dazzled by the sales presentation - I strongly recommend that you rescind, do your own homework independently, and then decide if you are going to buy resale or from the developer.  There is no good reason to rush into a developer purchase, and many, many reasons not to.

More info. about rescinding - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493


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## jarta (Oct 9, 2011)

Respectfully, there are some different opinions about what LisaRex says:

"It seems that you are a bit star struck by StarPoints (SPs). So, my first piece of advice (no matter what you decide) is to sign up for an SPG Amex, if you haven't already. For $65 a year, you can earn 1 StarPoint for every dollar you charge to the card + 1 StarPoint for every dollar charged at Starwood properties. Once you reach $30,000 spending in one calendar year, you're automatically upgraded to gold SPG status for one year. Free (or nearly free) SPs! Great deal. 

My second piece of advice is that if you plan to travel internationally and can really get your bang for each StarPoint, _consider just purchasing SPs when they go on sale each December. Normally they retail for 3.5 cents per SP, but in December they've been discounting them 20% to 2.8 cents._ If you buy a Platinum 2-br Lagunamar, the 2011 MF is $1,240 and the Staroptions can be converted into 79,200 Starpoints by 4* and 5* due to  10% bonus (and there is no conversion fee).  That's 1.56 cents, not 2.8 cents.If you can beat that (and many people can in Europe), then go ahead and buy them when they're on sale. You are limited to 20,000 SPs per person, but if you have a spouse, you can gift 20,000 to her and then transfer her points to your account as needed. For $1120 you can buy 40,000 SPs per year -- no long term commitment or $20,000 investment required. 

BEST CASE scenario if you plunk down $20k for a timeshare from the developer is 2.8 cents per dollar, and that is on the condition that MFs don't increase. (Ha!)

Oh, and here are some things your salesman might not have told you:

1) SPs earned by SVO conversion (or bonus SPs given to incentivize you to buy a timeshare from the developer) expire in 6 years.  Absolutely true, but 6 years is a lot of time. 

2) SVO members may only convert their vacation ownership interest(s) into Starpoints in non-consecutive use years.  Not so for 4* and 5* Elites.  They can convert each year and up to October 1 each year without a conversion fee. 

3) All maintenance fees, taxes and SVN membership fees are required to be paid in full prior to conversion of the vacation ownership interest into Starpoints..  If you can convert until October 1 of the use year and the MF is due at the beginning of the use year, is that really a big problem?  The same MF would have to be current to use the property during the use year.

4) The SP conversion rate is never adjusted. You'll always get the same number of SPs no matter if MFs increase (and they will) or if Starwood increases the number of SPs needed per night. So your rate of return will be diminished over time.  True.  And hotel pricing will also increase over time.

However, spending the money to get to 4* or 5* is not for everyone.  Cost to acquire status and take all those vacations must be taken into account.  Plus, you must do you DD to know when and how to maximize the value of converting to Starpoints (and other conversions to air miles). 

5) Many resorts have already reached the point where their conversion rate is worse than what you can buy from SPG.com on sale. SVR is at the point already. SVV is very close.  True, so don't buy at those resorts.  Do your DD.  Platinum WKV and Lagunamar provide conversion ratios well below the sale price - 2.8 cents.  Platinum Hawaii, WSJ and Harborside max out at double their cost per Starpoint and well above the sale price cost.  So, use your head, don't buy there to do a conversion to Starpoints.


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## fishingguy (Oct 9, 2011)

*you are the only one who can decide*

cruzad3r wrote:



> ...and money is always an object  but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone



You've got some excellent input from several well respected and Sheraton experienced TUGgers; but in the end only you will be able to decide if the 8 to 10x cost in buying from the developer [for the whole package] is worth it.  After watching this topic unfold from the original post; it almost seems that you are still unsure of your conviction, are hell-bent on proceeding anyway, or are just 'beating a dead horse' for whatever reason.  [I apologize ahead of time, if I'm wrong in this, but I don't mean to ruffle any feathers.]

We hear over and over again, about people who attend a sales presentation, only to find out later that what they were told is not correct, they got into something that wasn't suited to their specific needs, and/or they never really understood what they were buying.  It's a known fact that sales reps will often tell you whatever it takes to get you buy, and that includes:
- glossing over important limitations,
- deliberately not acknowledging resale purchases, and what your ownership will be worth should you decide to sell it later,
- not covering specifically how to go about using your ownership to get the most from it, 
- hyping the possibility of renting/exchanging into a market that is difficult right now or where inventory is limited,
- and yes, even deliberately stretching the truth.

In the end, the allure and pretty package is just to difficult from some to resist, and some have found that buyers remorse is even more difficult to admit. But then again, money isn't everything.  ...just some thoughts.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 9, 2011)

BLUE AYES said:


> 2 BD L/O at SVV is 95,700 Options. BTW my 2 BD L/O  at SVV Key West cost me  around 25,000 (many years ago, dont remember exact price) my 2 BD at Bella resale with 81,000 options cost me approx. 3,000 two to three years ago and now can be had for less than 2,000.



That's 95,700 StarOptions (timeshare currency), which converts to 56,000 StarPoints (hotel currency).

While the StarOptions are more than enough to get a week in a larger 1BR in any SVN property at any time in theory, it won't get you anywhere near that on the hotel side.

IMHO, the least costly comparable hotels are the SPG4 or SPG5 level properties, and a regular room would run you 60,000 to 72,000 StarPoints for a week.

That regular room is not comparable to the SVN units.  A standard hotel suite (semi comparable to the SVN rooms) would run you double the StarPoints.

And that's still only a 1BR.  You had to convert your entire 2BR villa to get that...


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## LisaRex (Oct 9, 2011)

jarta said:


> [/I] If you buy a Platinum 2-br Lagunamar, the 2011 MF is $1,240 and the Staroptions can be converted into 79,200 Starpoints by 4* and 5* due to  10% bonus (and there is no conversion fee).  That's 1.56 cents, not 2.8 cents.




I was using SVV/SVR for comparison purposes because that is what he mentioned he was targeting. Bringing 4 and 5* benefits (such as 10% bonus in SP conversion, the ability to convert every year) into the discussion is not relevant to the OPer because it's his first Starwood purchase.  

Besides, if he does want to become 4/5*, then it makes even more sense for him to purchase resale first and developer second. 

However, you do bring up a good point, and that is if the OPer is bedazzled by SPs, units other than SVV/SVR can offer him better SP:$ ratios.


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## jarta (Oct 9, 2011)

Purchasing resale first is always a good idea.  Do not jump into the pool without testing the temperature.   ...   eom


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## cruzad3r (Oct 9, 2011)

you guys have no idea how appreciated i am right now with all of these ideas.


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2011)

Can you please clarify what you meant by: *"but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage."*

Thanks!


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## cruzad3r (Oct 9, 2011)

i saw some very nice resort over sea, ASIA and Europe and i would like to stay there when i visit the country. obviously i can stay at some hotel but i want to enjoy and "bathe"  in luxury resort at cheaper price. i figured this is one of the benefits from owning a timeshare. please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> i saw some very nice resort over sea, ASIA and Europe and i would like to stay there when i visit the country. obviously i can stay at some hotel but i want to enjoy and "bathe"  in luxury resort at cheaper price. i figured this is one of the benefits from owning a timeshare. please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks



The reason I asked, is that you seemed to have gotten the idea (probably from the sales person) that buying from the developer would give you an advantage for international trading.  This is completely false:

1.  Starwood has no timeshares in Asia or Europe, so you would have to use Interval or RCI for international trades - you can't use your Staroptions.

2.  A resale timeshare has EXACTLY the same trade value as a developer purchase, when you trade it with an outside exchange company like II or RCI.

3.  Most people would not use a week purchased from the developer for a trader,  because the price is too high to be cost-effective.

4.  I would not buy in Florida for an international trader - Florida has more supply than demand, which lowers it's overall trading power.

I'm not sure I'd buy a Starwood timeshare at all, if International trading was my #1 goal - I'd probably consider Marriott instead, because they have a lot of international properties, and you would have the Marriott to Marriott priority for Interval trades.


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## jarta (Oct 9, 2011)

Before you decide to buy anything, please follow this TUG forum long enough to find out what is a possibility (and what is not) with timeshares, StarOptions, Starpoints and II or RCI trading.  It would be a shame if you invested a substantial sum of money without understanding all of the terms.

However, you have come to the right place to find out how the whole timeshare system works.   ...   eom


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## LisaRex (Oct 10, 2011)

IMO, the biggest advantage to buying from the developer (or buying a mandatory resort) is the ability to use SVN, which is Starwood's internal exchange system, so that you can most easily exchange into other Starwood resorts.  Not being able to use SVN is a huge disadvantage to buying a voluntary resort on the resale market.  If you are interesting in exchanging into the top-tier Starwood resorts -- Harborside Resort at Atlantis (HRA), Westin St. John (WSJ), or the ski resorts during ski season -- possibly your only bet is to use SVN, especially during high season.  This is why the mandatory resorts hold up their resale value better than voluntary resorts. 

However, as DeniseM stated, Starwood doesn't have timeshares in Europe/Asia. So SVN is useless in this regard.  In order to exchange internationally, you have to deposit your week with an external exchange system, the two most popular being Interval International (II) and RCI.  And then you have to hope/wait for availability to open up at the place you want to exchange to.  

I have no experience trying to exchange internationally.  However, if you can give us a few names of places that you'd like to exchange to overseas, I'm sure Tuggers would be happy to do a test and see if our weeks "see" that resort in II.  That will give you an early indicator as to whether this will be an easy exchange or a difficult exchange. 

In II or RCI, ALL owners are treated the same, no matter if you paid $1 on the resale market or $50,000 from the developer.  What does matter are: 1) Planning ahead and depositing your week early; 2) Owning a week with a high trading power; and 3) Owning with a company that gives you priority over other II members. 

#1 is easy for people who plan ahead; not so easy for people who don't. You can deposit up to one year in advance of your use year.  The earlier you deposit, the better.

#2 is key.  High trading power is essential if you want to snare the best exchanges.  

#3 This is a perk of owning with one company over another.  Let's say Starwood deposits 20 weeks at Westin Ka'anapali (WKORV) into II.  In theory, any II member who owned a timeshare above a certain trading power would be able to see it.  However, both Starwood and Marriott have a built-in advantage for their owners only in II.  IIRC, Starwood's is 3 days and Marriott's is 20 days.  Only when the priority has expired will other members even be able to see those weeks.  So most of those 20 WKORV weeks are going to be grabbed up by Starwood owners before they ever make it to the general II population.  Marriott owners are at a major disadvantage for getting Starwood weeks... and vice-versa.

Since Starwood doesn't have any international timeshares, you will get no advantage for international trades.  However, Marriott does have a few international resorts.  So if a resort such as Marriott Marbella (in Spain) or Marriott Phuket (Thailand) intrigues you, then you should really look more closely at the Marriott system.


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## DeniseM (Oct 10, 2011)

Just one addition to Lisa's comments - under the new II rules, the Starwood to Starwood Priority is 30 days, but it's inconsistently implemented.


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## Passepartout (Oct 10, 2011)

I think the OP has over imbibed on Starwood's Kool-Aid. He needs to rent a nice timeshare or 2- maybe HGVC or Marriott to get the Kool-Aid out of his system.

With all due respect, as nice as Starwood resorts are, they ain't the only game in town- especially if one wants to use a TS internationally.

Jim


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## cruzad3r (Oct 10, 2011)

my fellow tuggers 

is it true that when you buy from a Starwood Developer that you can't negotiate the price, closing cost, and maintenance fee?

is it true that whatever price bracket they have is what they can offer and nothing more including all the incentive starpoints, etc...?


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## tschwa2 (Oct 10, 2011)

I think there may be a little wiggle room on the starpoint incentives but that's about it.


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## DeniseM (Oct 10, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> my fellow tuggers
> 
> is it true that when you buy from a Starwood Developer that you can't negotiate the price, closing cost, and maintenance fee?



True



> is it true that whatever price bracket they have is what they can offer and nothing more including all the incentive starpoints, etc...?



Incentives may vary, but not the price, closing cost, or maintenance fees.

You should rescind anyway.....


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## pathways25 (Oct 10, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> True
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe MF's can be negotiated, in so far as they will discuss rebates.  The actual MF's are set by the BOD and are the same for all units of the same type at the resort, but I have been offered incentives like 1/2 MF's paid for 2 years, etc.  I believe it's negotiable because I was originally offered 1 year of 1/2 MF's and they increased it to 2 years when I wasn't sold.

My recollection is that only price and closing costs are absolutely not negotiable.  They will negotiate on bonus SP's and SO's and MF rebates.


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## DeniseM (Oct 10, 2011)

That's an incentive - not a change in the MF.  

Although I have never heard of anyone getting a rebate on MF's, so that's interesting.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 10, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> True
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't rescind what I don't have/own  

I am actively looking at resale now so if any tugers have anything you want to unload, let me know. Or if you have any suggestion on where to buy beside eBay and red week, let me know as well.

On that note, is there any collective thread that talks about resale so i can read up on, please post link if you know any. Once again, forums rules


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## DeniseM (Oct 10, 2011)

Are you saying you rescinded?     

BEFORE you buy again - you need to be perfectly clear on your goals - 
_
Are you buying a II trader, a Staroption exchanger, or a home resort to use most of the time?
_
eBay has the lowest prices and it is perfectly safe.

When you buy a timeshare on ebay:

1)  You don't pay immediately as you do with other auctions.

2)  You use a closing/escrow company to handle the paper work and $$$.

3)  The auction is not binding - you can back out with no consequences if you find that the property is not what was advertised.

4)  You can ask the closing company/reseller to request a Resale Info. Sheet from Starwood that will confirm what you are buying.


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## LisaRex (Oct 11, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Are you saying you rescinded?



Per his OP, he never bought.  He was considering it.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> Per his OP, he never bought.  He was considering it.



Oh good!  He also went to a sales pitch, so I was unclear on that point!  Glad to know all his options are still open!


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

options are still open and i believe i just got an offer of the lifetime from another tugger. AWESOME!


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> options are still open and i believe i just got an offer of the lifetime from another tugger. AWESOME!



I HIGHLY recommend that you post it here before you make the decision.

1.  EXACTLY what are you acquiring?

2.  What are you GOALS with this week?

a)  Home resort most of the time
b)  II or RCI trader most of the time
c)  Staroptions trader most of the time


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## chalee94 (Oct 11, 2011)

deleted post


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

so i didn't know that people give away timeshares and take care of all fees associated with it. this seems to come from a reliable tugger and the location is close to where i live which i can drive to. it's a starwood in myrtle beach. 

i think this will fit option *a* listed by you Denise. Since it's free, i can't be asking for too much. the MF is low and considerable for the next several years. i was told i can use this week to trade in II as well but i will do more research before i try such option. 

all and all, i've talked to the owner and he seems like a legit and nice guy. He also lives close to my neck of wood so you know you can trust each other. 

This introduces a new question, is there really a free lunch in this world?


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> This introduces a new question, is there really a free lunch in this world?



NOPE!  You will be sigining on to pay escalating maintanance fees until heck freezes over!     But that doesn't mean it's a bad deal - it's just not "really" free.

Sheraton Broadway Plantation
Original Phase
SBP Phase One:
Deluxe 1-Bdm. $428.26
1-Bdm. $547.98
Premium 1-Bdm. $779.61
2 Bdm. - $965.28
2 Bdm. L/O - $1,207.87
Palmetto
EOY Dedicated 2 Bedroom - $337.36
2 bedroom - $634

YES - it will have the Starwood to Starwood Priority in II.


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## C30NY (Oct 11, 2011)

Cruzader actually took the 2BR SBP I had.  After a pretty nice conversation with him on the phone, it seems like it would be a good fit for him and also trading it within II.  He planned to go to SBP so it may work two fold...as his home resort and a trader in II.  Since I acquired it for free with the giver paying closing / transfer fees, I provided the same courtesy.  Karma can go a long way if no one breaks the chain!


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

Jase369 said:


> Cruzader actually took the 2BR SBP I had.  After a pretty nice conversation with him on the phone, it seems like it would be a good fit for him and also trading it within II.  He planned to go to SBP so it may work two fold...as his home resort and a trader in II.  Since I acquired it for free with the giver paying closing / transfer fees, I provided the same courtesy.  Karma can go a long way if no one breaks the chain!



This is during the highest season at the resort - correct?

Dedicated 2 bdm. or 2 bdm. lock-off?

Original or Palmetto?


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

no this is just a dedicated 2 bedrooms during i believe GOld season (week 8 on the deed) i think it's original based on the MF. i think it's also a floater (sounds so weird) so i think i can book it during those floating weeks. 

Yes, Jase sounds like a great man so i'm happy that i joined this board. 

Btw, why are there so many free timeshares, and if the MF are low enough, i seriously considering taking up the offers


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## C30NY (Oct 11, 2011)

Yes, it is Gold.  Plantation does not have Platinum, they have a Gold Plus (9-43, 47)

Palmetto has the Full Silver - Platinum.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> Btw, why are there so many free timeshares?



Economy
Death
Divorce
Loss of job
Illness
Old age
Loss of interest
Impulse purchase
Unwanted inheritance
People who never learned how to us their timeshare in the first place

A timeshare is a luxury purchase - when the economy goes bad, the luxuries go first.



cruzad3r said:


> and if the MF are low enough, i seriously considering taking up the offers



As far as buying more - I STRONGLY encourage you to try this one week for a year, first.  

Remember it's easy to get a timeshare, and difficult to get rid of one!

AND - since you are interested in international travel - your next step should be to research Marriott - I'd start by reading the Marriott Forum - starting with the stickies at the top of that forum.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

will do, it's amazing the people you meet online. 

i will research the Marriott and will post question so you vet. can help answer.

thanks all


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> will do, it's amazing the people you meet online.
> 
> i will research the Marriott and will post question so you vet. can help answer.
> 
> thanks all



The best place to post Marriott questions, is the Marriott forum.

But FIRST - read the stickies and get up to speed on Marriott.


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## scooter (Oct 11, 2011)

In the past 18 months, I have bought several weeks at both Harbourside Atlantis and Lakeside Terrace on eBay. The Colorado weeks, (with the exception of one closing agent who was truly incompetent), all closed in a timely 90 days fashion. The three weeks I bought at Atlantis have yet to close. 8 months and counting, and they have still not cleared in Bahamas. Plus I still need to get through title at Starwood. I'm starting to get concerned because I want to use the points for Westin Maui or Kauaii in June, and we're inside the envelope for requests already. I've never bought a TS in the primary market, so I'm not sure what the deal is then.


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## SuMoran1124 (Oct 11, 2011)

*Sheraton Vistana Resort*

[I'm sorry, but advertising in the forums is not permitted.  Please consider using our classifieds - linked as "Marketplace," in the red bar at the top of the page.  Unfortunately, in this economy, the week you own is being given away for free. - Let us know if you want more info about that. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## Ken555 (Oct 11, 2011)

I think the last post offering to sell at a "reasonable price" places this all in perspective. Most owners don't know the value of their week. I'm sure their post (which I know Denise will edit as soon as she sees it) was made without reading the whole thread or they'd know a free week (including closing!) was offered. I say free+closing is now "reasonable" as far as these weeks are concerned.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

Ken555 said:


> I'm sure their post (which I know Denise will edit as soon as she sees it)



Yeppers!  

ebay auctions for Sheraton Vistana Resort - http://www.ebay.com/csc/Timeshares-..._dmpt=Timeshares&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283

Ending prices on the last 7 auctions for SVR:
$0
$1
$265
$550
$33.62
$0
$0

How can I give away my timeshare on TUG - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509


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## Passepartout (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> i'm happy that i joined this board.



If you REALLY want to feel like an insider, part with the $15 to truly JOIN TUG, and you won't be listed as 'guest'. The benefits of being able to see the reviews of thousands of resorts, as well as the 'Sightings & Distressed' listings are worth waaay more than the cost of membership. Plus, when you post reviews of your own, your TUG membership can be free. Free is good! Use me as a reference.

Jim


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

this might be a first time that i ever pay for an online forum. i'm seriously considering it. thanks for the advice.

for those who have more weeks then they can think of or using, do you usually trade on II or RCI? I mean is it worth it to pay for all of the MF? 

Following question, what is (from your multi weeks owner's perspective) a reasonable MF that you're willing to pay say for 2-3 weeks of TS? 

Finally, is it smarter to own different weeks from different developers so you can trade it with other? Is this a prefer method/strategy?


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> this might be a first time that i ever pay for an online forum. i'm seriously considering it. thanks for the advice.
> 
> for those who have more weeks then they can think of or using, do you usually trade on II or RCI?



All of the prime Starwood resorts are with II - so a II membership is valuable for Starwood to Starwood trades.

Disney is only with RCI - which at this point, is the only reason I'd join RCI.



> I mean is it worth it to pay for all of the MF?



It depends on many things:
-How many weeks of vacation do you have?
-Do you want to gift vacations to friends and family
-Do you want to rent extra weeks?



> Following question, what is (from your multi weeks owner's perspective) a reasonable MF that you're willing to pay say for 2-3 weeks of TS?



My Maui week started at about $1,200 and shot up to over $2,000 in less than 10 years.  I would have never bought it if I knew it would do that (Rookie mistake.)  The rest of my timeshares range from about $450 - $1,000 per year.  

Here is a good rule of thumb - if you can rent it for less than the maintenance fee, why own?



> Finally, is it smarter to own different weeks from different developers so you can trade it with other? Is this a prefer method/strategy?



Usually - it give you variety in trading power and location.


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## slip (Oct 11, 2011)

Denise, You can rent Kauai Beach Villas for less than MF's but you won't
get that view you love.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2011)

slip said:


> Denise, You can rent Kauai Beach Villas for less than MF's but you won't
> get that view you love.



Good point - and I'm all about the view.  Which is exactly why we bought 2 weeks ocean front so we can guarantee it every year.


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## slip (Oct 11, 2011)

I've seen that comment about rent being cheaper from a lot of people lately
on TUG. Guaranteeing a view, unit or a certain resort are good reasons to take
advantage of the super cheap resale prices.:whoopie:


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## VacationForever (Oct 11, 2011)

While it is true that for many resorts one can rent cheaper than to own but I have never rented timeshare weeks because I do not know who I am renting from and how to take precautions against fraud.  I certainly do not want to show up at a resort and then find out that the week was cancelled because the owner was foreclosed upon or somehting.  Owning a timeshare week or trading it thru II offers me peace of mind.  I have also never rented out a week.  My own advice is buying only what you can use, not more and not less.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 11, 2011)

sptung said:


> My own advice is buying only what you can use, not more and not less.



this is very true... so my goal now is to find TS that's closer where i can drive to and back. Also it's perfectly fine to use only two or three days at the time right? do you have to use the entire week? does it matter whether i buy resale or from developer to just use several days instead of the entire week?


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> this is very true... so my goal now is to find TS that's closer where i can drive to and back. Also it's perfectly fine to use only two or three days at the time right? do you have to use the entire week? does it matter whether i buy resale or from developer to just use several days instead of the entire week?



Timesharing does not work well for short stays - it's really designed for 7 night stays.  

For instance, with Starwood, you can't book a short stay unless it's a mandatory resort with Staroptions, and you can't make a reservation until you are within 90 days of check-in - by which time there isn't likely to be availability at a popular resort.

You can always reserve the full week and only stay part of the week, but you lose the extra days.


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## scootr5 (Oct 12, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Timesharing does not work well for short stays - it's really designed for 7 night stays.
> 
> For instance, with Starwood, you can't book a short stay unless it's a mandatory resort with Staroptions, and you can't make a reservation until you are within 90 days of check-in - by which time there isn't likely to be availability at a popular resort.
> 
> You can always reserve the full week and only stay part of the week, but you lose the extra days.



Not that I'm looking to do it, but in the SBP governing documents it states:

During the Floating Use Period, Floating Week Owners can make reservations for three-day and four-day Split Periods, subject to availability. Availability varies with respect to seasonality and Unit type. The Management Company shall have the right in its sole discretion to designate those Vacation Ownership Interests in which Split Periods will be permitted to reserve from time to time.​
I'm guessing that means while it is _possible_ to split a week, they may not designate any units to allow it at most times (kind of like the phantom "bonus time" at SDO)?


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## VacationForever (Oct 12, 2011)

scootr5 said:


> Not that I'm looking to do it, but n the SBP governing documents it states:
> 
> During the Floating Use Period, Floating Week Owners can make reservations for three-day and four-day Split Periods, subject to availability. Availability varies with respect to seasonality and Unit type. The Management Company shall have the right in its sole discretion to designate those Vacation Ownership Interests in which Split Periods will be permitted to reserve from time to time.​
> I'm guessing that means while it is _possible_ to split a week, they may not designate any units to allow it at most times (kind of like the phantom "bonus time" at SDO)?



Now you make me curious, what is phantom "bonus time" at SDO?


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## scootr5 (Oct 12, 2011)

sptung said:


> Now you make me curious, what is phantom "bonus time" at SDO?



It looks like Nodge tried a couple times but was unsuccessful booking it. I don't know if anyone has ever been able to.

f you are an owner at Sheraton Desert Oasis (SDO) and need a few more days beyond those you already own, don’t forget to see if they have any “bonus time” available. This program is apparently unique to SDO as a hold-over from when the property was an Embassy Vacation Resort. The current “bonus time” rate is $99/night for any sized unit that is available.

Here are the rules:

It can be booked only by owners for their own use;
It can be booked no sooner than 30 days before your planned arrival date;
It is limited to otherwise unreserved available space;
An owner may have only one “bonus time” reservation outstanding at any time during a use year;
Friday, Saturday, and Holiday stays require a two night minimum;
Sunday through Thursday may be booked for as little as one night;
Pre-payment is required; and,
No refund for unused, pre-paid nights.

I found this little nugget in the “Rules and Regulations of Embassy Vacation Resort at Scottsdale” document provided by the title company with my SDO resale.

I needed a couple of extra nights next month, so I called SVO to try to book some “bonus time.” No one there ever heard of it, but they were glad to book me into the SDO at the 35% Owners discount rate of $188/night. Upon further questioning, they “found the documentation.”

FYI,
-Nodge​


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## VacationForever (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you, Scott.


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## jerseygirl (Oct 12, 2011)

SVR has owner rental rates, similar to bonus time.  When not full, can rent very cheaply.  I haven't done it in a while, but if I remember correctly, it was ~$69 (???) for a one-BR.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 12, 2011)

just so i'm clear, has people who own SBP able to split their week into halves?


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 12, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> just so i'm clear, has people who own SBP able to split their week into halves?



Some of the 2 bd units are lockouts; others are not.  You can always tell which are which by the maintenance fees.  At the original phase ("Plantation"), MF's are $965 for the non-lockout 2 bd units and a couple hundred more for the lockouts.

But always get a "Resale Information Sheet" on the unit that will give the official description before you close the deal.


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2011)

vacationtime1 said:


> Some of the 2 bd units are lockouts; others are not.  You can always tell which are which by the maintenance fees.  At the original phase ("Plantation"), MF's are $965 for the non-lockout 2 bd units and a couple hundred more for the lockouts.
> 
> But always get a "Resale Information Sheet" on the unit that will give the official description before you close the deal.



He wants to split it into 3 days - 4 days.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 13, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> just so i'm clear, has people who own SBP able to split their week into halves?



Not sure if you can split your week in half at SBP, but a few of the other properties (PGA, SVR Lakes & Cascades) also participate in another pre-SVN club called VCC ("Vistana Vacation Club") that has it's own rules and benefits.

One of those benefits (which is similar to the "book individual days using SOs" feature of SVN) is the split-week vacation, where at 90 days out you can break your week in to a 3-day and a 4-day component and stay at one of the VCC properties, subject to a bunch of other rules, etc.

Perhaps SBP has a similar feature?


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## scootr5 (Oct 13, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Not sure if you can split your week in half at SBP, but a few of the other properties (PGA, SVR Lakes & Cascades) also participate in another pre-SVN club called VCC ("Vistana Vacation Club") that has it's own rules and benefits.
> 
> One of those benefits (which is similar to the "book individual days using SOs" feature of SVN) is the split-week vacation, where at 90 days out you can break your week in to a 3-day and a 4-day component and stay at one of the VCC properties, subject to a bunch of other rules, etc.
> 
> Perhaps SBP has a similar feature?



According to the governing documents you _can_, but I have yet to read a report of anyone successfully doing it on any board.


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## YYJMSP (Oct 13, 2011)

scootr5 said:


> According to the governing documents you _can_, but I have yet to read a report of anyone successfully doing it on any board.



Hmm, just went to MSC, and there used to be a button to make a VVC reservation on our SVR Cascades unit.  It's not there anymore.

I'm wondering if it disappeared after some point when we requalified the unit back in to SVN.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 13, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Good point - and I'm all about the view.  Which is exactly why we bought 2 weeks ocean front so we can guarantee it every year.



Advertising is banned on the SVO TUG forum... :deadhorse:


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## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2011)

OK David - you lost me - what am I advertising???

(That unit is NEVER for rent - we use it every year.)


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## linsj (Oct 13, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Timesharing does not work well for short stays - it's really designed for 7 night stays.



Not with other systems like Hilton.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 13, 2011)

linsj said:


> Not with other systems like Hilton.



so you're saying if i have a hilton TS, i can split it into halves? meaning stay at a place for 3 nights, then come back at another time and stay for the remaining 4 nights?


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## linsj (Oct 13, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> so you're saying if i have a hilton TS, i can split it into halves? meaning stay at a place for 3 nights, then come back at another time and stay for the remaining 4 nights?



Exactly. Depending on how many points you have, what size unit you book, and what season you book, you can get more than 7 nights. For example, from 5000 points, I've booked 3+ weeks in Hawaii in a studio off season.

Point systems have a lot more flexibility than weeks systems.


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## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2011)

linsj said:


> Not with other systems like Hilton.



Can you book a partial week stay with Hilton as early as a full-week's stay?


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## pathways25 (Oct 13, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Can you book a partial week stay with Hilton as early as a full-week's stay?



You can only book less than 7 days at 9 months from check-out (when anyone with HGVC points can book).  At that point, the minimum stay is 3 days.


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## VacationForever (Oct 13, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Hmm, just went to MSC, and there used to be a button to make a VVC reservation on our SVR Cascades unit.  It's not there anymore.
> 
> I'm wondering if it disappeared after some point when we requalified the unit back in to SVN.


Yes, it disappears about you join SVN.


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## linsj (Oct 13, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> You can only book less than 7 days at 9 months from check-out (when anyone with HGVC points can book).  At that point, the minimum stay is 3 days.



That's true for everything but your deeded week, which I have never used. I've always been able to get what I want 9 months out anyway.


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## cruzad3r (Oct 13, 2011)

it seems that hilton TS are much more flexible and easier to book their reservation. a friend of mine told me that he can book his reservation any time of the year. so it seems as if hilton does not have a deeded week and they are truly on a "floating" time. 

those who own hilton, is this true. base on your knowledge, would you say hilton is better than starwood?


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## DeniseM (Oct 13, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> it seems that hilton TS are much more flexible and easier to book their reservation. a friend of mine told me that he can book his reservation any time of the year. so it seems as if hilton does not have a deeded week and they are truly on a "floating" time.
> 
> those who own hilton, is this true. base on your knowledge, would you say hilton is better than starwood?



I am sure you friend "may" book any time of the year, but that doesn't mean that all resorts are "available" all times of the year.  For instances, I'm sure he'd have a hard time booking Christmas and New Years at a prime resort right now.  Making a timeshare reservation is just not that simple - it's not like making a hotel Resv.

There is no best timeshare - it really depends on your needs, and where you want to travel.  My suggestion is that you research that question on our Hilton forum.


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## linsj (Oct 14, 2011)

cruzad3r said:


> it seems that hilton TS are much more flexible and easier to book their reservation. a friend of mine told me that he can book his reservation any time of the year. so it seems as if hilton does not have a deeded week and they are truly on a "floating" time.
> 
> those who own hilton, is this true. base on your knowledge, would you say hilton is better than starwood?



Hilton does have a deeded week--but not fixed weeks with a few holiday exceptions--which you can book 12 months out. But it comes with a set number of points that you can book anytime and in any number of nights with a minimum of three. It's easy to get Vegas and Orlando any time; other places take some advance planning although nights can pop up any time. 

Hard to say which system is better. I think Hilton's point and reservation system are far superior and you can do it all online, but Starwood has properties in more places. From what I've read on TUG, Hilton treats its customers better and is fairer to resale owners than other systems. The only down side is not as many locations as other systems, but RCI exchanging makes up for that. For more info, come on over to the Hilton forum.


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