# Mid August update (downtime *early* Wednesday night)



## WyndhamBarter (Aug 10, 2021)

Is this it?  Wahoo!

YOUR WEBSITE WILL BE TAKING A QUICK VACAY
Your website will undergo maintenance from August 11 at 9 p.m. EST - August 12 at 6 a.m. EST. Thank you for your patience as Club Wyndham continues to upgrade your online experience.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 10, 2021)

WyndhamBarter said:


> Is this it? Wahoo!
> 
> YOUR WEBSITE WILL BE TAKING A QUICK VACAY
> Your website will undergo maintenance from August 11 at 9 p.m. EST - August 12 at 6 a.m. EST. Thank you for your patience as Club Wyndham continues to upgrade your online experience.



That’s a nine hour window - so it’s a good bet. I’ll validate with my Wyndham IT contacts tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VacayKat (Aug 10, 2021)

Just in time for Friday the 13th, no bad ju-ju there!


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## troy12n (Aug 11, 2021)

Mega renters gonna be taking a quick vacay...


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## dgalati (Aug 11, 2021)

troy12n said:


> Mega renters gonna be taking a quick vacay...


Mega renters will adapt to new policy and this will only shake out the weak hands.  What will create the most availability is the elimination of resale points with VIP discounts.


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## 55plus (Aug 11, 2021)

Wyndham probably put a lot of time into this revision. I hope this launch goes smoothly. I'm looking forward to the new bells and whistles.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 11, 2021)

Team,

The feedback I received from the Wyndham DT team indicates tonight’s release will implement the rules enforcements for VIP/resale points usage, the details of which were sent in an email to the impacted ownership base as we all know.  So it does appear tonight is the big night.  What I don't know for certain is if tonight's changes also include the granting of complimentary points - I followed up with this ask subsequently but may not hear anything back as they are quite busy prepping for these rather significant changes and having to be up all night during the rollout process. 

There are also a few other changes in scope in this sprint release as follows:

Various improvements on the Explore Resorts page to improve search/filter efficiency.
Resort phone numbers wiill be added to all resort detail pages.
Cleaned up ADA (accessible rooms) booking inventory to be more accurate

There's an ask to provide feedback if we run into any snags once the site comes up tomorrow morning - both via the website feedback mechanism as usual - and anything we can share here that I can get right in front of the DT team directly provided it's something that has a broad impact to affected VIP owners.


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## paxsarah (Aug 11, 2021)

Screenshot your accounts, everyone!


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## ilya (Aug 11, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Team,
> 
> The feedback I received from the Wyndham DT team indicates tonight’s release will implement the rules enforcements for VIP/resale points usage, the details of which were sent in an email to the impacted ownership base as we all know.  So it does appear tonight is the big night.  What I don't know for certain is if tonight's changes also include the granting of complimentary points - I followed up with this ask subsequently but may not hear anything back as they are quite busy prepping for these rather significant changes and having to be up all night during the rollout process.
> 
> ...




Probably been explained well before.. but what is the complementary points?


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 11, 2021)

ilya said:


> Probably been explained well before.. but what is the complementary points?


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 11, 2021)

I was just coming to post if anyone had an update on when, but I now see the warning on the website.  Didn't notice it earlier in the day, but then again I didn't look at that screen very hard. 

But screen shots of all ressies, and of all current point balances.  See what happens tomorrow.  Figures I am busy in the morning and going on vacation on Saturday.  So it if is screwed up it will just have to wait.

Is the transaction history acting strange for people?  I can't get my 2022 bookings to show correctly.


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## ilya (Aug 11, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> View attachment 38530


Thanks... I just don't know why they would need to give complimetary points? Maybe I am missing something...


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## VacayKat (Aug 11, 2021)

ilya said:


> Thanks... I just don't know why they would need to give complimetary points? Maybe I am missing something...


Goodwill - they don’t have to, just know they are irritating folks who are collateral damage to their true intent.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 11, 2021)

ilya said:


> Thanks... I just don't know why they would need to give complimetary points? Maybe I am missing something...



If you had already booked reservations that got VIP benefits but you used resale points, that would with the new system no longer actually qualify, I think they are using complimentary points for those adjustments, so that accounts have the same balance for EXISTING reservations, despite the rule change mid year.  Going forward rules will apply but retro they might be willing to make some adjustments.  That is just my guess.


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## VacayKat (Aug 11, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> If you had already booked reservations that got VIP benefits but you used resale points, that would with the new system no longer actually qualify, I think they are using complimentary points for those adjustments, so that accounts have the same balance for EXISTING reservations, despite the rule change mid year.  Going forward rules will apply but retro they might be willing to make some adjustments.  That is just my guess.


My understanding is the points will be in the following use year not the one they adjust. But as with all things Wyndham, nothing is as clear as it seems.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> My understanding is the points will be in the following use year not the one they adjust. But as with all things Wyndham, nothing is as clear as it seems.



The statement on the webpage clearly says the complimentary points will be deposited in the future use year IIRC. The site is down now so I can’t check firsthand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

Still “Kick back, hold tight” at 6:26am…


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Still “Kick back, hold tight” at 6:26am…



They meant 6-ish


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

It's up now; all my reservations survived.  Points summary page reflects 10 GC for VIPG and 2 GC for resale, unlimited transactions for VIPG and 3 for resale, and unlimited housekeeping.  The unlimited housekeeping without a breakout for resale is a bit unexpected, but seems to be limited to this year.  Housekeeping seems to be broken out properly for future use years between unlimited VIP and by points as expected for my resale ownership.


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

My benefits summary page shows nothing. Obviously it’s not critical (non-VIP, resale only), but how will I ever be able to track how many rental points I’ve used??

I’ll try on my laptop later when I’m able to. This was on my phone with Chrome and Safari.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

I don't see any evidence that they've even tried to separate out resale/developer points used in my past transactions.  I also did not get any complimentary points for the future use year.  Might be that they haven't done the audit process yet.

One oddity, @HitchHiker71, is that the benefits summary page lists the limitations on housekeeping that would apply had I not been a VIP prior to last year's system update rather than unlimited.  The points summary page for the future years shows unlimited for developer and the proper numbers I expected for resale.  This leads me to question whether it is tracking the number of housekeeping credits used and would flag a need to buy additional ones if I exceed the allocation.

Second oddity is that it shows a limitation of rental points to the number of developer points I own rather than having a breakout that allows rental up to my owned resale points, which is how I would read the guidelines in the directory on page 249.  Not a big deal for me because I can't think of any reason why I would ever want to do that, but it is implemented improperly - IMHO if you rent points to complete a VIP reservation they should come out of the developer rental allocation, for a reservation that includes any resale points, it should be possible to rent from the resale rental allocation first, then the developer rental allocation.  This isn't directly addressed in the rulesets they provided, so is just my extrapolation of what the underlying policies seem to be.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> My benefits summary page shows nothing. Obviously it’s not critical (non-VIP, resale only), but how will I ever be able to track how many rental points I’ve used??
> 
> I’ll try on my laptop later when I’m able to. This was on my phone with Chrome and Safari.



It took a while to load for me using Safari on my Mac.  One other nit to report, the default display for the benefits summary page is the earliest use year (really an agglomeration of use years) in my account, labeled as the current use year with all the subsequent use years labeled as future use years, including the actual current use year.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

One other comment - the points summary page reflects that I have 1 of 1 remaining resale housekeeping credit in my next use year (1/1/22-12/31/22) although I've used all of my resale points in a reservation.  I had thought that the housekeeping credits were decremented during the reservation process for folks without unlimited housekeeping and had therefore expected it to show 0 of 1 remaining resale housekeeping credits for that year.  That's part of why I said it doesn't appear that they've done any auditing and allocation of points used in existing reservations as developer/resale and are likely to leave them where they lie while applying the separation rules to future reservations, resulting in the housekeeping for the one reservation I had made using resale points for next year as covered by the unlimited housekeeping.  That does make some sense based on what they said about leaving the application of VIP benefits that had already occurred.  I don't think it will make any difference in my use for next year anyway.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> My benefits summary page shows nothing. Obviously it’s not critical (non-VIP, resale only), but how will I ever be able to track how many rental points I’ve used??
> 
> I’ll try on my laptop later when I’m able to. This was on my phone with Chrome and Safari.



When you do get in and see your benefits summary, could you post whether or not it shows a rental point bucket?  As I mentioned in my earlier post, the size of my rental point bucket matches the size of my developer bucket.


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## dgalati (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> It's up now; all my reservations survived.  Points summary page reflects 10 GC for VIPG and 2 GC for resale, unlimited transactions for VIPG and 3 for resale, and unlimited housekeeping.  The unlimited housekeeping without a breakout for resale is a bit unexpected, but seems to be limited to this year.  Housekeeping seems to be broken out properly for future use years between unlimited VIP and by points as expected for my resale ownership.


At least the update didn't stop Wyndham EH from offering nonowner deals. Wonder why Wyndham doesn't allow a points rental/transfer between owners like Worldmark has? 









						Non-Owner Travel Deals
					

Check out the latest discounts, specials & offers on Club Wyndham resorts and save on your next family vacation! With the money you save you can relax responsibly.




					clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com


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## scootr5 (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> My benefits summary page shows nothing. Obviously it’s not critical (non-VIP, resale only), but how will I ever be able to track how many rental points I’ve used??
> 
> I’ll try on my laptop later when I’m able to. This was on my phone with Chrome and Safari.



Same for me on desktop using Chrome and Edge. Everything else seems to be functioning as expected.


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## Rolltydr (Aug 12, 2021)

I’m not seeing a rental point bucket, just developer and resale. 

On my points summary, I have 22,250 developer points for the current use year, which is correct. However, I have -3/5 RTs in my developer bucket and 4/4 in my resale bucket. This could be a minor issue for me unless I can take advantage of the free RT before the end of August. 

All my reservations survived.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> Same for me on desktop using Chrome and Edge. Everything else seems to be functioning as expected.



Check what year is selected to display.  Mine showed nothing until I selected the current use year, which was way down on the list with the default being the very first use year that had existed in my account.  Once I selected the current use year, the display populated properly.  I already mentioned this to add to the spreadsheet by @HitchHiker71.


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## keno999 (Aug 12, 2021)

Not sure what criteria was used for VIP vs Resale transactions.  One example I looked at was a reservation for next year at Limetree.  They have it allocated as resale points but shows my VIP upgrade request.  Same with a Kingsgate reservation for this year after Thanksgiving.  Then I have a couple of reservations for TOTG for next June with no VIP request to upgrade - the 2-Bd is Developer and the Studio is resale?  Confusing, to me at least.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Just another data point - I am retail-only (no resale) and see no difference in display after the update. This is as I expected.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

keno999 said:


> Not sure what criteria was used for VIP vs Resale transactions.  One example I looked at was a reservation for next year at Limetree.  They have it allocated as resale points but shows my VIP upgrade request.  Same with a Kingsgate reservation for this year after Thanksgiving.  Then I have a couple of reservations for TOTG for next June with no VIP request to upgrade - the 2-Bd is Developer and the Studio is resale?  Confusing, to me at least.



I've got the same issue with some reservations I made for next year.  It's not obvious whether the system would auto-upgrade a mixed reservation.


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Just another data point - I am retail-only (no resale) and see no difference in display after the update. This is as I expected.


You should have the “benefits summary” tab, which is new. Is there anything on it for you?


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Just another data point - I am retail-only (no resale) and see no difference in display after the update. This is as I expected.



One thing you should see that's new (if you are VIP) is the listing of the RARP limit and how many you've used on the benefits summary page once you select the current use year.  That was a piece of information that wasn't available previously.  @HitchHiker71, one suggestion I would make is that the RARP usage is a nice to know thing that would be good to have on the points summary page for VIP owners similar to the inclusion of the housekeeping credit and reservation transaction display.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> You should have the “benefits summary” tab, which is new. Is there anything on it for you?


I don't have a Benefits Summary tab.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> One thing you should see that's new (if you are VIP) is the listing of the RARP limit and how many you've used on the benefits summary page once you select the current use year.  That was a piece of information that wasn't available previously.  @HitchHiker71, one suggestion I would make is that the RARP usage is a nice to know thing that would be good to have on the points summary page for VIP owners similar to the inclusion of the housekeeping credit and reservation transaction display.


I am VIP (VIPP expiring soon; permanent VIPG) but I don't see a Benefits Summary page at all (see my prior post).


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## scootr5 (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Check what year is selected to display.  Mine showed nothing until I selected the current use year, which was way down on the list with the default being the very first use year that had existed in my account.  Once I selected the current use year, the display populated properly.  I already mentioned this to add to the spreadsheet by @HitchHiker71.


I don't have any option to select a UY - the area just displays as solid white.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

... and I thought they did a halfway decent job with this one....


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

I am getting 09302015 to 09302018 as my current use year.  Not sure what is up with that. 

I have 2 reservations that are SRP, that are full points, no discount, no upgrade request and it is using VIPP points for that and is leaving 1 one resale contract in tact, so I have points remaining for that.   That sucks.  Wonder if they will shuffle points if that is the case?  

Didn't have time to look at my ressies, just the point summary.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> I am getting 09302015 to 09302018 as my current use year.  Not sure what is up with that.
> 
> I have 2 reservations that are SRP, that are full points, no discount, no upgrade request and it is using VIPP points for that and is leaving 1 one resale contract in tact, so I have points remaining for that.   That sucks.  Wonder if they will shuffle points if that is the case?
> 
> Didn't have time to look at my ressies, just the point summary.



That might be a good one to ask about getting the complimentary VIP-eligible points in the next use year to make up for if they can't shuffle the point usage.

I had mentioned the current use year issue earlier as a problem to be reported/tracked.  Defaulting to an older agglomeration of use years happened for me as well.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> One thing you should see that's new (if you are VIP) is the listing of the RARP limit and how many you've used on the benefits summary page once you select the current use year.  That was a piece of information that wasn't available previously.  @HitchHiker71, one suggestion I would make is that the RARP usage is a nice to know thing that would be good to have on the points summary page for VIP owners similar to the inclusion of the housekeeping credit and reservation transaction display.


Interesting. I was using Edge (don't ask) on my remote computer to examine my account and there is no Benefits Summary tab Using chrome on my home computer, there is. I guess I need to clear my cache the remote computer.

The Benefits Summary page makes sense in an odd way. As someone previously mentioned, it starts off showing my earliest use year and calls it current use year, @HitchHiker71 this should be something for IT to correct. I've used all my points for this use year but some categories are showing available points. Future use years look better; I need to sit down and double check numbers to make sure it accurately reflects things. However, housekeeping credits shows me with a limited number while I am a grandfathered VIP. Looking at future use years it shows 16/16 housekeeping credits while the Points Summary page for those same use years shows unlimited.

Edit: I do not see a RARP category, only a CWP RARP for a specific resort where one of my contracts has RARP. No RARP due to my VIP benefits though.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Well….. I have resale points, got the email and see no differences in my account this morning.

*edit* - well logged out and back in and now see things. That’s special.

Looks like they took away my unlimited housekeeping so that will be a call.

AND they have my contracts coded wrong- so more are resale than should be (they were family transfers)

THIS is why I thought Wyndham should talk to owners first. Now I have to spend my time telling them how they got it all wrong AGAIN - even though they promised me their system had it right.  Makes me so angry.

additional edit - on the overview I have unlimited HK, on the benefits summary it is x/32


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

They also bumped down my GC allocation - probably a factor of the improper contract allocation, but lost 15


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Why in God’s name would they choose a reservation that I make at my presidential resort to be put as resale???????

*edit* _and left it with an upgrade request???? _


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## vv813 (Aug 12, 2021)

has anyone tried to make a reservation yet to see how it affects buckets.  And as I am not tech savy-is there something that I can do to get better print copies because I cant get clear copies to print (it is like it is not printer friendly-overlapping pages, typing over things-was this way also b4 the update.   also has anyone grandfathered founders seen an expiration date listed-just went back in and now not seeing it.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Why in God’s name would they choose a reservation that I make at my presidential resort to be put as resale???????
> 
> *edit* _and left it with an upgrade request???? _



You might be better off with the allocation of your resale points to that reservation.  If you do call and ask about it, I would probably ask them to confirm that you'll get whatever PR benefits you should at that resort with the reservation as it stands.  They left a number of reservations I had allocated as using mixed points despite having upgrade requests, which remained on them.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

It gets better - they SPLIT a reservation between VIP and resale. even though there were more than enough points and reservations that they had no need ro do that.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> You might be better off with the allocation of your resale points to that reservation.  If you do call and ask about it, I would probably ask them to confirm that you'll get whatever PR benefits you should at that resort with the reservation as it stands.  They left a number of reservations I had allocated as using mixed points despite having upgrade requests, which remained on them.


My question is whether those upgrade requests are real or just face plates. I mean that would be a VIP perk that they clearly stated they are removing now.


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

It's possible that everyone (Wyndham included) should simply expect this year's point allocations to be pretty weird, next year's point allocations to be also a little weird, and starting in 2023 it can work as intended. 

Or it's possible that they'll "fix" it a few weeks down the road like they did when they first changed the housekeeping last November. [Note: mine still never made sense for last year or this year, but it didn't negatively affect me so I just went with it.]


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

@HitchHiker71 can you beg your contacts to please get the transaction history numbers to make sense? Or to give an option to download to excel so we can do the math on them without having to copy a hundred numbers? None of mine match up and I have no freaking clue what they did.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> It's possible that everyone (Wyndham included) should simply expect this year's point allocations to be pretty weird, next year's point allocations to be also a little weird, and starting in 2023 it can work as intended.
> 
> Or it's possible that they'll "fix" it a few weeks down the road like they did when they first changed the housekeeping last November. [Note: mine still never made sense for last year or this year, but it didn't negatively affect me so I just went with it.]



Agreed.  I'm not really expecting to use any VIP upgrades for reservations I currently have and will likely cancel the ones I have for the next several months anyway.  Mostly just going through and seeing whether the points I get back will be developer or resale ones and anticipating that I'll wind up PDFing them to 2023 anyway.

Overall effect of the change for me seems on the order of just making planning slightly more complicated than it was before with having to track the RTs and HKs for my resale points.  I did come out slightly ahead on having 2 more GCs in my account for the resale points, though I've never come anywhere near using the free allocation before, so it's not a major improvement in any way.


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> @HitchHiker71 can you beg your contacts to please get the transaction history numbers to make sense? Or to give an option to download to excel so we can do the math on them without having to copy a hundred numbers? None of mine match up and I have no freaking clue what they did.


Mine are also super messed up, and of course I don't have the VIP/resale issue.

From what I can guess, it looks like maybe they've tried to apply specific contracts to my past reservations. For instance, a 301,000 point reservation I made a couple of weeks ago for next May now appears to be broken into 182,000 and 119,000 blocks, and one of my contracts is for 182,000. There's no other reason I could think they'd have done that.

I also have several 0 point transactions that I didn't have before.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> @HitchHiker71 can you beg your contacts to please get the transaction history numbers to make sense? Or to give an option to download to excel so we can do the math on them without having to copy a hundred numbers? None of mine match up and I have no freaking clue what they did.



@VacayKat, be careful what you ask for - that would entail them mucking around in your old transactions and might have unintended consequences.  I do like the download to excel thought, though.  The impression this whole thing is giving me is that they just let the system run the numbers keeping the totals the same rather than trying to make intelligent decisions about the point allocations on a transaction-by-transaction basis for ~4,000 hybrid owners.  My ask would be for confirmation that upgrade requests would remain in place for existing mixed reservations that cannot be rebooked as developer only reservations.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> @VacayKat, be careful what you ask for - that would entail them mucking around in your old transactions and might have unintended consequences.  I do like the download to excel thought, though.  The impression this whole thing is giving me is that they just let the system run the numbers keeping the totals the same rather than trying to make intelligent decisions about the point allocations on a transaction-by-transaction basis for ~4,000 hybrid owners.  My ask would be for confirmation that upgrade requests would remain in place for existing mixed reservations that cannot be rebooked as developer only reservations.


I have to say if they can’t get the formulas right to make the right # appear it doesn’t give me much hope that they can make the code right to do what their goal is for this change. My transactions have been a problem for a long time so it is an old problem not an introduced one. If they gave an excel I would think that they actually wanted me to use my points well - not to mention I could track my vacations without dynamic loading!

Interestingly - not sure if others found this - transactions on my points page and benefits page do not match. Seems they are pulling from different places.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

I wasn't able to login on chrome (I know, I know, clear cache....).  But Safari works fine.  Pleasantly surprised. The sky did not fall. Reservations intact. Numbers looks good and fair to me (developer and resale). Probably erred on the side of caution in crediting RT's and GC's (I got 2 resale GC's for 2021, thank you Wyndham). I like the benefit summary page - appreciate the breakout and visibility to the various benefits (I kind of want to say buckets), RARP, etc.  I don't see any reference to complimentary points for next year or anything labeled renter (just developer and resale).  At first glance, no complaints. I'll dig deeper when I have more time (and not on vacation, did I mention I'm on vacation ).  Haven't booked or cancelled anything yet, again, won't be messing around with that for a few days.  Hopefully ya'll have the kinks worked out before I start playing, thank you in advance for that


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> My question is whether those upgrade requests are real or just face plates. I mean that would be a VIP perk that they clearly stated they are removing now.


Well, they only work a small percentage of the time anyways... so there's that, too.


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## Zeke_62 (Aug 12, 2021)

I'm seeing same issues.  The allocations do not align with the owners zoom meeting, nor my 2 calls to the "policy" phone number they provided.  Reservations that were booked with discount/upgrade have been allocated to resale.  I called twice this week and talked to 2 different agents. 
Question 1: - the zoom meeting stated that any reservation booked with discount or requesting an upgrade thus using a VIP benefit would be allocated as developer.  Can you confirm this.  They both answered yes.  
Question 2:  Should I cancel a reservation that was made with discount or requesting upgrade using a VIP benefit - how will the points be returned.  They both said they would be returned as developer points.  
.
That is NOT how my points were allocated.  I'm seeing the same things as others.  Each individual reservation has points that are split between developer and resale.  
.
This is NOT what they said they were going to do!


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Can someone point me towards the RARP and rental buckets? AFAIK they are not on my account.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Can someone point me towards the RARP and rental buckets? AFAIK they are not on my account.


I do not see them either on a pure retail VIP account. My Points Summary properly shows unlimited HK for all years while the Benefits Summary shows x/16 for all years.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

It shows up at the bottom of the benefits summary page for the current year for me like this:

2021 Calendar Year Benefits
VIP RARP Limit Transactions
1 / 3
Rental Points
292,000 / 292,000


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> It shows up at the bottom of the benefits summary page for the current year for me like this:
> 
> 2021 Calendar Year Benefits
> VIP RARP Limit Transactions
> ...



I don't have these 2 categories on my page. Lots of others.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Interesting. I was using Edge (don't ask) on my remote computer to examine my account and there is no Benefits Summary tab Using chrome on my home computer, there is. I guess I need to clear my cache the remote computer.



I would recommend everyone clear browser cache/history just to be sure we're all starting from a clean slate.  



> The Benefits Summary page makes sense in an odd way. As someone previously mentioned, it starts off showing my earliest use year and calls it current use year, @HitchHiker71 this should be something for IT to correct. I've used all my points for this use year but some categories are showing available points. Future use years look better; I need to sit down and double check numbers to make sure it accurately reflects things. However, housekeeping credits shows me with a limited number while I am a grandfathered VIP. Looking at future use years it shows 16/16 housekeeping credits while the Points Summary page for those same use years shows unlimited.



I've definitely spied a few oddities in the numbers I'm seeing on my Benefits Summary - I'll post screenshots in another post when I have time to share more detail.  I did some quick initial testing via my Safari mobile iPhone browser this morning.  The current use year bucket not being properly set is the first thing I noticed since I didn't actually see anything under Benefits Summary by default, since the use year bucket is set to what was my oldest past use year and not the current use year when viewing.  Is everyone experiencing this issue across the various devices and browsers that we're using?  If so then that's a pretty broad issue that requires attention IMHO especially if when we switch to the Benefits Summary we initially see nothing in that section since it's a past use year in scope.  If you're not looking closely - you may just assume you aren't seeing anything and it's not working at all.  I just also tested via my Firefox browser and here's what I see when initially clicking on the Benefits Summary:





I have to manually switch to my proper current use year before any data displays.



> [Edit: I do not see a RARP category, only a CWP RARP for a specific resort where one of my contracts has RARP. No RARP due to my VIP benefits though.



I don't see an individual RARP bucket either - but I see my VIP RARP - on the right hand side of the Benefits Summary area - here's a screenshot:





You know what's interesting about that one RARP transaction that shows as used up?  The actual transaction shows as resale in my history:





Note that I used "Add nights" yesterday on that particular reservation - that's the 143k points showing in the first non-highlighted entry.  Now check this out, I'm switching over to viewing Developer bucket now:





Same 143k entry Add Nights transaction is listed under both developer and resale buckets.  I'm wondering if this is because the transaction ended up using points from both buckets somehow - but that's confusing to me at least.  When I click on the View Transaction Details option - I get the dreaded 404 webpage not found error.  So I cannot see any details to attempt to troubleshoot further.  Is anyone else experiencing the 404 error when attempting to View Transaction Details?  I get that erorr on multiple reservation transactions when attempting to view details.


----------



## 55plus (Aug 12, 2021)

For whatever reason my 900K in resale show up as developer points. I don't show any resale. I'm VIPP, but should have jumped to VIPF for the amount of points that now show as developer. If it doesn't adjust by next week I'll let Wyndham know. I'd sooner correct this now that have Wyndham find it later and accuse me of fraud.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> My benefits summary page shows nothing. Obviously it’s not critical (non-VIP, resale only), but how will I ever be able to track how many rental points I’ve used??
> 
> I’ll try on my laptop later when I’m able to. This was on my phone with Chrome and Safari.



I suspect this is due to the fact that it seems to be defaulting to a past use year like mine did - choose your actual current use year and it should work as designed (see my previous post for details).


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Rolltydr said:


> I’m not seeing a rental point bucket, just developer and resale.
> 
> On my points summary, I have 22,250 developer points for the current use year, which is correct. However, I have -3/5 RTs in my developer bucket and 4/4 in my resale bucket. This could be a minor issue for me unless I can take advantage of the free RT before the end of August.
> 
> All my reservations survived.



I see a rental points bucket - but it appears rental points only apply to developer points at least within the Benefits Summary at present.  Does this match up with the current policy?  I apologize as I literally have never used rental points from Wyndham before so I'm not sure of the answer off the top of my head.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I would recommend everyone clear browser cache/history just to be sure we're all starting from a clean slate.
> 
> 
> I don't see an individual RARP bucket either - but I see my VIP RARP - on the right hand side of the Benefits Summary area - here's a screenshot:
> ...


I do not have that off to the right side.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

keno999 said:


> Not sure what criteria was used for VIP vs Resale transactions.  One example I looked at was a reservation for next year at Limetree.  They have it allocated as resale points but shows my VIP upgrade request.  Same with a Kingsgate reservation for this year after Thanksgiving.  Then I have a couple of reservations for TOTG for next June with no VIP request to upgrade - the 2-Bd is Developer and the Studio is resale?  Confusing, to me at least.



From our FAQ that we had generated previously - we were told that any transactions that had upgrade requests requested but not yet processed that would otherwise fit in the resale bucket - would be classified as resale and the as yet unprocessed upgrade request would be cancelled.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I've got the same issue with some reservations I made for next year.  It's not obvious whether the system would auto-upgrade a mixed reservation.



Per the FAQ - it will not - if any resale is included - the auto-upgrade will be cancelled and/or will not process.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> From our FAQ that we had generated previously - we were told that any transactions that had upgrade requests requested but not yet processed that would otherwise fit in the resale bucket - would be classified as resale and the as yet unprocessed upgrade request would be cancelled.


So we should assume that even though it says upgrade it is false?

edit: awesome, yet another reason they should have consulted owners. I literally can not cancel and rebook as there is no other inventory at the time they decided to make my reservations resale.


----------



## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Can someone point me towards the RARP and rental buckets? AFAIK they are not on my account.





HitchHiker71 said:


> I see a rental points bucket - but it appears rental points only apply to developer points at least within the Benefits Summary at present.  Does this match up with the current policy?  I apologize as I literally have never used rental points from Wyndham before so I'm not sure of the answer off the top of my head.



I had addressed that in an earlier post.  The directory says the following on the subject on page 249 without a limitation to developer points:


When confirming an Express Reservation, 3 months or less prior to check-in, you may rent up to the amount of points you receive for your annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> I am getting 09302015 to 09302018 as my current use year.  Not sure what is up with that.
> 
> I have 2 reservations that are SRP, that are full points, no discount, no upgrade request and it is using VIPP points for that and is leaving 1 one resale contract in tact, so I have points remaining for that.   That sucks.  Wonder if they will shuffle points if that is the case?
> 
> Didn't have time to look at my ressies, just the point summary.



If you have any issues with the points allocations - use the dedicated toll free line that is available for this change - I expect that's the best way to deal with any discrepancies.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> If you have any issues with the points allocations - use the dedicated toll free line that is available for this change - I expect that's the best way to deal with any discrepancies.


That line better have a hundred operators today.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

@HitchHiker71 things like points deposit, conversion to MF and wyndham rewards are showing as fully available 100/100% whereas that isn’t how many points I have left. Can you get them to explain this? Or fix it, lol.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Well….. I have resale points, got the email and see no differences in my account this morning.
> 
> *edit* - well logged out and back in and now see things. That’s special.



That's to be expected given cookie data storage - hence the clear browser cache recommendation to start with a clean slate.  



> Looks like they took away my unlimited housekeeping so that will be a call.
> 
> AND they have my contracts coded wrong- so more are resale than should be (they were family transfers)
> 
> THIS is why I thought Wyndham should talk to owners first. Now I have to spend my time telling them how they got it all wrong AGAIN - even though they promised me their system had it right.  Makes me so angry.



Definitely use that toll free dedicated line for your issues - I wouldn't try going through normal OR channels - that's likely to result in even more frustration for you.  Not saying the dedicated line won't result in frustration - but my guess is the folks attending to that line have at least some level of training on these changes as opposed to the masses.  



> additional edit - on the overview I have unlimited HK, on the benefits summary it is x/32



Interesting - can you share a screenshot please?  It would help when reporting the issue.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Why in God’s name would they choose a reservation that I make at my presidential resort to be put as resale???????
> 
> *edit* _and left it with an upgrade request???? _



I still see an upgrade request on one of my resale transactions - during my discussions for the FAQ we formed - I got the sense the upgrade request would not be cancelled right away - it would simply not process if/when that time came.  I can seek clarity on this item though since it's creating confusion.


----------



## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Interesting - can you share a screenshot please? It would help when reporting the issue.



I had the same issue - the benefits summary page doesn't match the points page, which shows the unlimited HKs properly.  Someone else also mentioned it - you might check on your account.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> @HitchHiker71 can you beg your contacts to please get the transaction history numbers to make sense? Or to give an option to download to excel so we can do the math on them without having to copy a hundred numbers? None of mine match up and I have no freaking clue what they did.



We've had that request outstanding for quite some time now - don't get your hopes up is all I can say.  That said - I'll certainly take the opportunity to reiterate the use case.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> That's to be expected given cookie data storage - hence the clear browser cache recommendation to start with a clean slate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will pm you screen shots


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> I do not have that off to the right side.



FWIW if you're using a mobile browser - it'll show up at the very bottom instead - check down at the very bottom if it doesn't show like it does on my desktop screenshot.  I run 1080P resolution on my desktop so have a fair amount of screen real estate available.


----------



## Zeke_62 (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Per the FAQ - it will not - if any resale is included - the auto-upgrade will be cancelled and/or will not process.


That contradicts the information from both of my conversations with the representatives at the special phone line.  Both times I called, I very specifically asked how future reservations with an upgrade request would be allocated.  Both times they stated they would be allocated as 100% developer, even if that meant my developer allocation would be overfull.  One of the two indicated that as this was a mid year change, Wyndham understood that the buckets would not align for 2021 and 2022.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> FWIW if you're using a mobile browser - it'll show up at the very bottom instead - check down at the very bottom if it doesn't show like it does on my desktop screenshot.  I run 1080P resolution on my desktop so have a fair amount of screen real estate available.


I looked everywhere. It isn’t there.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I had addressed that in an earlier post.  The directory says the following on the subject on page 249 without a limitation to developer points:
> 
> 
> When confirming an Express Reservation, 3 months or less prior to check-in, you may rent up to the amount of points you receive for your annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts.



Thanks for confirming - I'm simply going through all of the posts one by one starting from the beginning - so I likely didn't see your response yet when I replied.  I'll add this to our list of inquiries.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> @HitchHiker71 things like points deposit, conversion to MF and wyndham rewards are showing as fully available 100/100% whereas that isn’t how many points I have left. Can you get them to explain this? Or fix it, lol.



I see the same - I suspect it's only showing what is feasible based upon your overall points ownership - the buckets aren't set up to calculate against other buckets based upon usage in other words.  That's just speculation on my part based upon what I'm seeing though.  Will certainly add this to our list of inquiries.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> @VacayKat, be careful what you ask for - that would entail them mucking around in your old transactions and might have unintended consequences.  I do like the download to excel thought, though.  The impression this whole thing is giving me is that they just let the system run the numbers keeping the totals the same rather than trying to make intelligent decisions about the point allocations on a transaction-by-transaction basis for ~4,000 hybrid owners.  My ask would be for confirmation that upgrade requests would remain in place for existing mixed reservations that cannot be rebooked as developer only reservations.



Our original enhancement request was for a configurable table section for all Tx history - with sticky custom settings stored as part of your account - that way you could add/remove columns - sort columns - etc.  That way owners can view and interact with their Tx history using the columnar data that makes the most sense for them.  This request would in no way alter any data - it would simply allow for owners to slice and splice data as they see fit.  That said - it never got any real traction - so don't get your hopes up.  

I will make the ask regarding confirmation that upgrade requests would remain in place for existing mixed reservations that cannot be rebooked as developer only reservations.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> I wasn't able to login on chrome (I know, I know, clear cache....).  But Safari works fine.  Pleasantly surprised. The sky did not fall. Reservations intact. Numbers looks good and fair to me (developer and resale). Probably erred on the side of caution in crediting RT's and GC's (I got 2 resale GC's for 2021, thank you Wyndham). I like the benefit summary page - appreciate the breakout and visibility to the various benefits (I kind of want to say buckets), RARP, etc.  I don't see any reference to complimentary points for next year or anything labeled renter (just developer and resale).  At first glance, no complaints. I'll dig deeper when I have more time (and not on vacation, did I mention I'm on vacation ). Haven't booked or cancelled anything yet, again, won't be messing around with that for a few days. Hopefully ya'll have the kinks worked out before I start playing, thank you in advance for that



I don't see any complimentary or goodwill points either - I'm guessing this hasn't actually occurred yet as a result.  Glad to hear things look good for you so far.


----------



## Rolltydr (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I see a rental points bucket - but it appears rental points only apply to developer points at least within the Benefits Summary at present.  Does this match up with the current policy?  I apologize as I literally have never used rental points from Wyndham before so I'm not sure of the answer off the top of my head.


 I


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Zeke_62 said:


> That contradicts the information from both of my conversations with the representatives at the special phone line.  Both times I called, I very specifically asked how future reservations with an upgrade request would be allocated.  Both times they stated they would be allocated as 100% developer, even if that meant my developer allocation would be overfull.  She indicated that as this was a mid year change that this would happen.



I can only speak to what we were told by other Wyndham resources.  Let's say it a different way.  A resale transaction can borrow points from the developer bucket when necessary - but will never be entitled to any VIP benefits - because it is still a resale transaction.  A developer transaction can never borrow points from the resale bucket in comparison.  I think what we're seeing here though is how the overnight calculations actually sorted - which is a different issue and may have not have used the same logic that we've been told will apply for net new transactions _after _the changes were rolled out. What I don't know is the logic used for the changes retrospectively for the current use year and future use years - and it does appear the logic used is a bit different than what we were told for net new transactions. I will likely try to find some time today to make a few net new transactions using my developer points bucket to see how the reservation process actually works.

The other possibility of course is that what we were told wasn't accurate - and that the back end logic used for the changes is accurate.  Only time will tell.


----------



## Braindead (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> It's possible that everyone (Wyndham included) should simply expect this year's point allocations to be pretty weird, next year's point allocations to be also a little weird, and starting in 2023 it can work as intended.
> 
> Or it's possible that they'll "fix" it a few weeks down the road like they did when they first changed the housekeeping last November. [Note: mine still never made sense for last year or this year, but it didn't negatively affect me so I just went with it.]


I’m with you & everyone should take a deep breath, step back for for a few days.
Some answers are still on the points summary while other answers are on the new benefits tap.
It looks like to me Wyndham has been very generous on developer points verses resale points for 2022. All of my points deposited into 2022 show as developer points.

Play with the way things are for few days. If items look way off regarding any history, does it really matter?
The only time I’d call in is if available points aren’t right. As others have said be careful what you wish for when calling in.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

I am grandfathered temporary VIPP, permanent VIPG. No VIP RARP or Rental categories No pull down for All vs Developer vs Resale (which makes sense since I own no resale). I do have CWP RARP but that is from a specific contract and only includes that number of points. Below are screen shots (I think these were requested by @HitchHiker71 ) of my HK from benefits summary & points summary. Both are for use year 10/1/20 - 9/30/21. Future use years display similarly.




And from Points Summary


----------



## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

The Use Year issue on the Benefits Summary page defaulting to the first year in the list appears to be an issue across the 2 browsers I've tried (Edge, Chrome, both on laptops). Both sections of the Benefits Summary page are behaving this way.


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## Zeke_62 (Aug 12, 2021)

2021 and 2022 are awkward.  Change is inevitable, but more frustrating when this was not implemented as described.  More oddness.  I booked a Sept 27, 2N reservation yesterday.  I'm VIPF.  This ended up at 18k after the VIPF discount.  I cancelled this reservation this morning.  2k towards developer and 16k towards resale.  This reservation was certainly booked using VIPF benefits, yet was allocated as a random split between developer and resale.  ???


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

The only thing that I can say for sure is, at least now I know which contracts wyndham considers resale (even if it is different than what they told me at enrollment) and I know what I can offload, and how much $$ I will save per month (and year) if I do. Or unenroll them. Fees are higher with wyndham than where they came from so if I do not get VIP benefits, really doubt it is worth paying a premium for them. Wonder if that special line is set up to address that question…?


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## 55plus (Aug 12, 2021)

Zeke_62 said:


> 2023 is clean as it should be.  2021 and 2022 are awkward.  Change is inevitable, but more frustrating when this was not implemented as described.  More oddness.  I booked a Sept 27, 2N reservation yesterday.  I'm VIPF.  This ended up at 18k after the VIPF discount.  I cancelled this reservation this morning.  2k towards developer and 16k towards resale.  This reservation was certainly booked using VIPF benefits, yet was allocated as a random split between developer and resale.  ???


with a 2/16 split, do you happen to have 8x more resale than developer. If so that may be how they split it.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Can someone point me towards the RARP and rental buckets? AFAIK they are not on my account.


Try going to a future use year.  

My current use year doesn't show RARP or rental numbers, but a future use year does.


----------



## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I see a rental points bucket - but it appears rental points only apply to developer points at least within the Benefits Summary at present.  Does this match up with the current policy?  I apologize as I literally have never used rental points from Wyndham before so I'm not sure of the answer off the top of my head.


I don't understand what the rental points bucket is. For me, it is a grand total for the number of developer and resale points.  I don't see it for my current use year, but I see it for my next use year. 

I wasn't going to muddy up the waters, but since it seems to affect what displays on the benefits summary. My account shows a current use year date of September 30, 2021. This has been going on for some time and no one knows why. I don't have any contracts (anymore) ending September 30, 2021.  All contracts are Jan-Dec.  I pretty much ignore this as it doesn't seem to affect anything.  But on the Benefits Summary, if I select use year ending Sep 30, 2021, I don't see any RARP or rental points. If I select use year ending Dec 31, 2021 (which seems to be considered a future use year), I see the RARP and rental points.  But I don't understand why they are stating rental points. That term doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> I don't understand what the rental points bucket is. For me, it is a grand total for the number of developer and resale points.  I don't see it for my current use year, but I see it for my next use year.
> 
> I wasn't going to muddy up the waters, but since it seems to affect what displays on the benefits summary. My account shows a current use year date of September 30, 2021. This has been going on for some time and no one knows why. I don't have any contracts (anymore) ending September 30, 2021.  All contracts are Jan-Dec.  I pretty much ignore this as it doesn't seem to affect anything.  But on the Benefits Summary, if I select use year ending Sep 30, 2021, I don't see any RARP or rental points. If I select use year ending Dec 31, 2021 (which seems to be considered a future use year), I see the RARP and rental points.  But I don't understand why they are stating rental points. That term doesn't make sense to me.



Interesting. My UY is 10/1 - 9/30 across all contracts so I don't have the choice of selecting a year ending in 12/31. I wonder if that is why I do not see VIP RARP or Rental categories...


----------



## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> But I don't understand why they are stating rental points. That term doesn't make sense to me.


Rental points are when you run out and you rent a few points at $12/1,000. Technically, you can pay $12/1,000 to rent equivalent to your total number of use year points. What? Don't you do that on a regular basis?


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Interesting. My UY is 10/1 - 9/30 across all contracts so I don't have the choice of selecting a year ending in 12/31. I wonder if that is why I do not see VIP RARP or Rental categories...


What if you pick your 10/1/2021-9/30/22 use year  (assuming your current use year is 10/1/2020-9/30-21)?


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Rental points are when you run out and you rent a few points at $12/1,000. Technically, you can pay $12/1,000 to rent equivalent to your total number of use year points. What? Don't you do that on a regular basis?


I'm pretty sure I haven't rented a point since they changed the rate to $12/1,000.


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> I don't understand what the rental points bucket is. For me, it is a grand total for the number of developer and resale points.  I don't see it for my current use year, but I see it for my next use year.
> 
> I wasn't going to muddy up the waters, but since it seems to affect what displays on the benefits summary. My account shows a current use year date of September 30, 2021. This has been going on for some time and no one knows why. I don't have any contracts (anymore) ending September 30, 2021.  All contracts are Jan-Dec.  I pretty much ignore this as it doesn't seem to affect anything.  But on the Benefits Summary, if I select use year ending Sep 30, 2021, I don't see any RARP or rental points. If I select use year ending Dec 31, 2021 (which seems to be considered a future use year), I see the RARP and rental points.  But I don't understand why they are stating rental points. That term doesn't make sense to me.



I'm 100% resale.  I don't see any rental points bucket at all, current or future use year


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> I'm 100% resale.  I don't see any rental points bucket at all, current or future use year


Is your Benefits Summary tab populated at all? Mine is completely blank (as was another resale owner's further back in the thread).


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## Ty1on (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> I am grandfathered temporary VIPP, permanent VIPG. No VIP RARP or Rental categories No pull down for All vs Developer vs Resale (which makes sense since I own no resale). I do have CWP RARP but that is from a specific contract and only includes that number of points. Below are screen shots (I think these were requested by @HitchHiker71 ) of my HK from benefits summary & points summary. Both are for use year 10/1/20 - 9/30/21. Future use years display similarly.
> 
> View attachment 38578
> And from Points Summary
> View attachment 38579



Your Current UY shows 10/1/19 to 9/30/21.  Odd.


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Is your Benefits Summary tab populated at all? Mine is completely blank (as was another resale owner's further back in the thread).



Yes, completely blank.  Not that I care about rental buckets or anything like that, just tryna understand anything that may have changed.


----------



## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> Try going to a future use year.
> 
> My current use year doesn't show RARP or rental numbers, but a future use year does.


It doesn’t. Tried that.


----------



## Ty1on (Aug 12, 2021)

Also, I have never used points pool since they went forward-only.

I can't PDF 2022 points until 2022 starts?  That surprises me.


----------



## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

This is completely unrelated to anything important, but since this update my account doesn't show my profile picture (which I had uploaded probably pretty soon after the 2020 website update). If I try to upload a new profile picture, it just spins and spins.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> The Use Year issue on the Benefits Summary page defaulting to the first year in the list appears to be an issue across the 2 browsers I've tried (Edge, Chrome, both on laptops). Both sections of the Benefits Summary page are behaving this way.



All, we're looking at this issue in more detail at present (meaning Richelle and I).  We're wondering if this issue might be limited to accounts that have multiple use years in their configuration.  Unfortunately both @Richelle and I have undergone account use year re-alignments so we're looking for someone who has never undergone an account use year realignment that can validate if the reported issue specific to the Benefits Summary page defaulting to the first year in the list still occurs.  By multiple use years - we mean for example that I see both my calendar use year (post realignment) as well as my original Oct-Sept use year - and the first item in my list therefore is Oct-Sept - whereas my current use year is calendar year.  Just a theory that we're looking to have someone help us prove out.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Your Current UY shows 10/1/19 to 9/30/21.  Odd.



Likely a bonus contract that hasn't yet expired.


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## Ty1on (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Likely a bonus contract that hasn't yet expired.



Yep.  By the fact that he is temporary platinum, a bonus contract would be in play.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> All, we're looking at this issue in more detail at present (meaning Richelle and I).  We're wondering if this issue might be limited to accounts that have multiple use years in their configuration.  Unfortunately both @Richelle and I have undergone account use year re-alignments so we're looking for someone who has never undergone an account use year realignment that can validate if the reported issue specific to the Benefits Summary page defaulting to the first year in the list still occurs.  By multiple use years - we mean for example that I see both my calendar use year (post realignment) as well as my original Oct-Sept use year - and the first item in my list therefore is Oct-Sept - whereas my current use year is calendar year.  Just a theory that we're looking to have someone help us prove out.


My use year has always been a single year. I see my oldest use year as current use year.

I do have bonus contracts that have expired with weird use years but that shouldn’t be the issue - but who knows how the back end is programmed.


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## Zeke_62 (Aug 12, 2021)

55plus said:


> with a 2/16 split, do you happen to have 8x more resale than developer. If so that may be how they split it.


Heavens no.  the split does not align with my resale/developer ratio.


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## 55plus (Aug 12, 2021)

Zeke_62 said:


> Heavens no.  the split does not align with my resale/developer ratio.


Sometimes things defy logic. All my resale are in my VIPP developer bucket, showing I own no resale. I'm sure everything will work itself out. If not I'll call after the dust settles.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Zeke_62 said:


> Heavens no.  the split does not align with my resale/developer ratio.


So was just looking at my reservation with a split, clicked on a different one by accident and when i go to view points summary it just dumps me at my points page instead of where it used show the transaction specifically. So when I go back to the right one to figure out what is what it also dumps me out at the main page and I have to click through every transaction. @HitchHiker71 if you could add this to the feedback that would be great - digging through every transaction will eat up my entire day to know what they did to my reservations and what points apply where. [and will become a spreadsheet from hell]

Also - why would they just not use up all my resale points? They left me with 83,200 resale points -completely useless.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> It doesn’t. Tried that.



I think we're seeing a few different things here.  I know you have mentioned on several occasions that you've had some longstanding issues with your account that have gone unresolved by Wyndham.  I'm sure others here on TUG also fall into this same bucket.  The website enhancements are simply displaying data from the back office systems - so whenever big changes like this occur that slice and dice the data differently for display purposes - it probably displays some confusing information.  I think some folks that fit into this "longstanding account problems" bucket are going to see more inconsistencies as a result.  At the end of the day - it likely means that the back office account data needs to be fixed properly - because if that dataset isn't correct - then these new features that provide more visibility into our ownership - are just going to display those inconsistencies that have always existed - with more specificity - which will create more confusion.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> So was just looking at my reservation with a split, clicked on a different one by accident and when i go to view points summary it just dumps me at my points page instead of where it used show the transaction specifically. So when I go back to the right one to figure out what is what it also dumps me out at the main page and I have to click through every transaction. @HitchHiker71 if you could add this to the feedback that would be great - digging through every transaction will eat up my entire day to know what they did to my reservations and what points apply where. [and will become a spreadsheet from hell]
> 
> Also - why would they just not use up all my resale points? They left me with 83,200 resale points -completely useless.


Well, removing visibility was by design. That is my understanding. It is supposed to take you all day (or even better, perhaps you'll give up). So good luck to us all


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> My use year has always been a single year. I see my oldest use year as current use year.
> 
> I do have bonus contracts that have expired with weird use years but that shouldn’t be the issue - but who knows how the back end is programmed.



Thanks for validating the use case - this helps.  I've already zoomed off an email to Wyndham on this initial core display issue and received a response back that they are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution - though the timing and level of effort for the fix has yet to be determined.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for validating the use case - this helps.  I've already zoomed off an email to Wyndham on this initial core display issue and received a response back that they are aware of the issue and are working on a resolution - though the timing and level of effort for the fix has yet to be determined.


To be fair - when my use year flipped in 2020 it took at least 3 months [can not remember how long, just remember saying ‘FINALLY’ audibly] for that page to reflect it- I think it’s a bigger problem than something introduced with this change.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> Well, removing visibility was by design. That is my understanding. It is supposed to take you all day (or even better, perhaps you'll give up). So good luck to us all


OMG did you call it.

To find what they did to my reservation starting Saturday I had to find the email confirmation, select ALL use years and ALL purchase types. For this reservation of 415k which there is no way I will get an upgrade for and did not book with any discounts or vip benefits they decided : 64,800 resale points and 350,200 VIP points. Why not just make it all VIP or all resale?

What do you want to bet they had some algorithm making decisions instead of real people? Also how exactly can these get changed when there is no availability to cancel and rebook, gah- if only they had told us up front the process for realigning points to how we would want them used?!! Something is rotten in the state of denmark.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> What if you pick your 10/1/2021-9/30/22 use year  (assuming your current use year is 10/1/2020-9/30-21)?



Same behavior for 10/1/2021 - 9/30/22 and 10/1/22 - 9/30/23


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## 55plus (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> Well, removing visibility was by design. That is my understanding. It is supposed to take you all day (or even better, perhaps you'll give up). So good luck to us all


Passive aggressive behavior aimed mainly at mega renters. Like you said, by design.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Same behavior for 10/1/2021 - 9/30/22 and 10/1/22 - 9/30/23


So my next guess.... 

Are we seeing a rental bucket when people have a mix of developer and resale and thus a new term is needed for total available points (and they are using the term rental)?

For the current use year, I have 0 points left, so don't see anything.  But for next use year I have dev and resale and thus a rental bucket that totals the two.  Just swagging here.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Your Current UY shows 10/1/19 to 9/30/21.  Odd.



Probably because of a bonus contract that is expiring. I didn't notice that. I don't think the Point Summary screen appeared this way for me before the updated. Below is a screenshot showing future use years.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> All, we're looking at this issue in more detail at present (meaning Richelle and I).  We're wondering if this issue might be limited to accounts that have multiple use years in their configuration.  Unfortunately both @Richelle and I have undergone account use year re-alignments so we're looking for someone who has never undergone an account use year realignment that can validate if the reported issue specific to the Benefits Summary page defaulting to the first year in the list still occurs.  By multiple use years - we mean for example that I see both my calendar use year (post realignment) as well as my original Oct-Sept use year - and the first item in my list therefore is Oct-Sept - whereas my current use year is calendar year.  Just a theory that we're looking to have someone help us prove out.



My use year was never realigned. All contracts in my account have a use year of 10/1 - 9/30


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Mine are also super messed up, and of course I don't have the VIP/resale issue.


I'm attaching a PDF of my points summary page transaction history for all use years going back to 01/01/21. Left is yesterday, right is today. I've marked it up to align what was happening on the left side to what is now happening on the right side. Most of the transactions are now broken up. The only one that jumps out as me as I mentioned above is that one 301,000 point transaction is now 182,000 and 119,000, which corresponds with one of my contracts being 182,000. But I don't see anything obvious in the breakdowns of the other transactions. Plus there are lines with zero for no apparent reason.

Again, I don't have resale vs. developer - it's all resale in 3 contracts. If I took some time with it, maybe I could make those other random-sized chunks of points align with some combination of my contracts or the number of points I deposited from previous years (I deposited from 2020 into 2021 and 2021 into 2022), but it's not outright those numbers of points. [Edit: I didn't look closely enough. One of the other partial reservation amounts is the same as a points deposit amount.]


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

r4rab said:


> My use year was never realigned. All contracts in my account have a use year of 10/1 - 9/30



And do you still experience the reported issue of the oldest use year default when first viewing the Benefits Summary? Or does it properly display the current use year initially?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 12, 2021)

I don't think my use year has ever displayed properly. Honestly, I pretty much ignore it. All contracts are Jan-Dec. I've never had a bonus contract. I used to have a Oct-Sep use year contract. I also used the credit pool and have a lot of old, weird use years. I suspect it's the latter that causes my wonkiness. It is not caused by the current changes (and will repeat what hitchhiker said, likely related to backend data issues that would need to be cleaned up to resolve the issue). I simply am not willing to invest my time into figuring it out, don't believe it has hurt me yet, and so I let it slide.

Home Page:



Points Summary:









Beside having 2 Current Use Year's in my dropdown list. I have a gazillion different use years which seem to continue to replicate meaninglessly each year.

No I did not credit pool a gazillion times, not sure why the use years continue to multiply, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Yup, I ignore the noise. Things seem to work and I have no appetite for spending endless hours on the phone with Wyndham trying to fix something that seems to be an annoyance at best.

My Benefits Summary defaults to a pretty cool use year, too:


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Your Current UY shows 10/1/19 to 9/30/21.  Odd.



I have quite a few odd use year listings like that on my account that all showed up after the re-alignment when I purchased my NH resale contract.  I really need to request an account audit from Wyndham to ensure everything is as it should be - as I suspect my back office dataset isn't entirely correct.


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## r4rab (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> And do you still experience the reported issue of the oldest use year default when first viewing the Benefits Summary? Or does it properly display the current use year initially?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I experience the issue, I was one of the 1st to report it.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

Latest email indicates that complimentary VIP-eligible points will be deposited by end of August.  Also note that the extended time for PDF or conversion to maintenance fees is only for non-VIP-eligible points.


Dear Valued Club Wyndham Member, In July, we shared details about a system update designed to provide you with a more comprehensive view of your membership and to support existing VIP by Wyndham program guidelines. Included in this system update is a new Benefits Summary feature, which gives you more control over how you use your membership. As of today, Aug. 12, this system update and Benefits Summary are now live on your Club Wyndham website.

The Benefits Summary is a helpful new feature that enables you to track your benefits in real time — you can now see the benefits available to you immediately after booking a resort reservation or making another type of transaction on the Club Wyndham website.

Another feature of the Benefits Summary is the ability for you to distinguish between points you have purchased directly from Club Wyndham (“VIP Eligible Points”) and points that have been acquired through the third-party resale market (“Non-VIP Eligible Points”). It will help you apply VIP benefits for the reservation(s) where they can have the greatest impact, and will update automatically to reflect your current points and benefits for each points type.

As you adjust to this system update, we are pleased to offer some options to help you maximize your vacation opportunities. *Complimentary points will be deposited into your next Use Year by the end of August. Additionally, now through Dec. 31, 2021, you will have the option to convert your Non-VIP Eligible Points to maintenance fees or utilize the Points Deposit Feature to move your Non-VIP Eligible Points into a future Use Year.* To learn more about this system update, the Benefits Summary, and options available to help you maximize your vacation opportunities as you adjust to this change, please visit your Club Wyndham website. You may also reach a dedicated support team by calling 844-991-0921.

We look forward to helping you check destinations off your bucket list as you make the most of your Club Wyndham experience!

Sincerely,

Your Club Wyndham Management Team


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

I am on hold for 15 mins, get connected give my account name and number and they disconnect me.  Then no call back, WTF.


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## troy12n (Aug 12, 2021)

I don't have any resale points but I logged in just to make sure my reservations were still ok. 

Looks fine to me. I do have the "benefits summary" page, all zero's because i'm spent out for the year (Oct-Sep UY)... 

It does seem kind of dumb that it lists a bunch of points line items for points types I don't own, you would think they could automatically filter that stuff out. It lists CWA and CWA Arp, and I have no CWA at all. Everything is CWS deeded NH.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> I am on hold for 15 mins, get connected give my account name and number and they disconnect me.  Then no call back, WTF.


Well that answers the question I was coming to ask: Anyone get through yet?
Earlier on hold for ~20 min but had to go to a meeting, now back on hold.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Well that answers the question I was coming to ask: Anyone get through yet?
> Earlier on hold for ~20 min but had to go to a meeting, now back on hold.


Got a person but you can tell they have been having a bad day and expect owners to beat up on them. Was hoping for better ju-ju.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

If anyone gets an answer on why some bookings (non-discounted booked in SRP and not requesting an upgrade) got booked using developer points when my 1 and only 1 resale contract still have points remaining.   Calling a bit of BS on that one.


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## Zeke_62 (Aug 12, 2021)

@HitchHiker71   I'm most interested in how Wyndham allocated developer/resale on the already booked reservations.  As I mentioned previously, it is not like I was told by 2 different staff at the "special" phone number.  I'm very interested in the answer you get prior to me inquiring myself.  I will be calling again as in further looking my 2023 points are off a bit.  I'm VIPF through PIC, so my account should have 1M and change in developer.  (I'll add it up later).  It is showing 397k developer for 2023.  Something is very much not correct


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> If anyone gets an answer on why some bookings (non-discounted booked in SRP and not requesting an upgrade) got booked using developer points when my 1 and only 1 resale contract still have points remaining.   Calling a bit of BS on that one.


So far from my conversation it is because it was part algorithm, part human process. As far as I can tell people were less involved than computers.

Also allocation is allocation - they will NOT change any reservations. Only recourse would be cancel and rebook which is frustrating. Basically, wyndham’s version of lump it or leave it.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> So far from my conversation it is because it was part algorithm, part human process. As far as I can tell people were less involved than computers.
> 
> Also allocation is allocation - they will NOT change any reservations. Only recourse would be cancel and rebook which is frustrating. Basically, wyndham’s version of lump it or leave it.



I would rebook and use Developer points IF there were still availability, but there is NOT.  I have 2 reservations like this, and both used Developer points and now I have resale points remaining.  Wouldn't be so bad, but I have 1 resale contract only, and that is the one with points remaining.

This approach is going to be my approach from now on, book something during SRP and use resale points,  If it still available during ERP then cancel the booking made with resale, and rebooked with VIP and get the perks.  I so seldom get an update that it OBTAINED at time of booking, I think that since the new AUTO upgrade has been created I have received 2, just 2, on about 40 bookings.


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## Rolltydr (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> So far from my conversation it is because it was part algorithm, part human process. As far as I can tell people were less involved than computers.
> 
> Also allocation is allocation - they will NOT change any reservations. Only recourse would be cancel and rebook which is frustrating. Basically, wyndham’s version of lump it or leave it.


It has always bugged me when people say it was the computer. A computer can't do anything that a human doesn't program it to do. So, if the computer screwed it up, a human screwed up the computer first.

I'm not picking on you VacayKat. It's just a pet peeve of mine after a 35 year IT career.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Rolltydr said:


> It has always bugged me when people say it was the computer. A computer can't do anything that a human doesn't program it to do. So, if the computer screwed it up, a human screwed up the computer first.
> 
> I'm not picking on you VacayKat. It's just a pet peeve of mine after a 35 year IT career.


Let me rephrase, a human programmed the algorithm and they let it run and then a person reviewed it but not really. So the algorithm was given more weight than human discernment. Computers are restricted to whatever the first person decided, the follow-up could have had more thought, but from what I can tell for the most part it was - well that looks like the computer did its thing. [I did say algorithm, not computer, and only people make algorithms, computers run them. So my statement it was MORE computer in this case is accurate because people relied on the spit out to be accurate] FYI, I’m also a bit sensitive to the idea that computers can do anything on their own. Would never indicate they could. But they can certainly run things, and do it fast. And most people can think the computer is more accurate than they would be because well - they don’t think about step one any more because they are so far removed from it.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> I would rebook and use Developer points IF there were still availability, but there is NOT.  I have 2 reservations like this, and both used Developer points and now I have resale points remaining.  Wouldn't be so bad, but I have 1 resale contract only, and that is the one with points remaining.
> 
> This approach is going to be my approach from now on, book something during SRP and use resale points,  If it still available during ERP then cancel the booking made with resale, and rebooked with VIP and get the perks.  I so seldom get an update that it OBTAINED at time of booking, I think that since the new AUTO upgrade has been created I have received 2, just 2, on about 40 bookings.


I am likely going to have to end up PAYING for GC because of their allocation splits with large family vacay at christmas even though I have more than enough. I said I do it this way because family change their minds and I lose GC if I have to cancel and rebook slightly different dates. Why don’t the GC come back? Well because they are for booking not for check-in.  Was told I should tell family to essentially stop changing their mind because it costs me money.
I agree upgrades are unlikely. Discounts are the real current value.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> So far from my conversation it is because it was part algorithm, part human process. As far as I can tell people were less involved than computers.
> 
> Also allocation is allocation - they will NOT change any reservations. Only recourse would be cancel and rebook which is frustrating. Basically, wyndham’s version of lump it or leave it.



Well, if we consider the numbers involved - I'm fairly certain it was entirely programmatic.  4000 impacted VIP owners - let's assume the average VIP owner had 10 impacted reservations.  That's 40,000 reservations impacted.  That's a pretty big number for human touch to enter into the equation.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

troy12n said:


> I don't have any resale points but I logged in just to make sure my reservations were still ok.
> 
> Looks fine to me. I do have the "benefits summary" page, all zero's because i'm spent out for the year (Oct-Sep UY)...
> 
> It does seem kind of dumb that it lists a bunch of points line items for points types I don't own, you would think they could automatically filter that stuff out. It lists CWA and CWA Arp, and I have no CWA at all. Everything is CWS deeded NH.



Agreed - I think that's an enhancement request we need to submit - filter out the buckets that don't need to display specific to the owner account.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Well, if we consider the numbers involved - I'm fairly certain it was entirely programmatic.  4000 impacted VIP owners - let's assume the average VIP owner had 10 impacted reservations.  That's 40,000 reservations impacted.  That's a pretty big number for human touch to enter into the equation.


I did tell them had they given me the opportunity I could have allocated my 17 vacations in 3 minutes and would have taken them literally only the time to make it doable - aka the system they just installed. Had this been the end of my use year it would have hurt significantly less. Their choosing to do it at the beginning  of most folk’s years probably made more problems.

BUT the implication they would help owners in the earlier email/webinar is what really stings when they now say - done deal. Live with it.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Zeke_62 said:


> @HitchHiker71   I'm most interested in how Wyndham allocated developer/resale on the already booked reservations.  As I mentioned previously, it is not like I was told by 2 different staff at the "special" phone number.  I'm very interested in the answer you get prior to me inquiring myself.  I will be calling again as in further looking my 2023 points are off a bit.  I'm VIPF through PIC, so my account should have 1M and change in developer.  (I'll add it up later).  It is showing 397k developer for 2023.  Something is very much not correct



I've asked on more than one occasion for the logic that was used over the past three weeks - I can pretty much tell you Wyndham isn't going to share the logic - but I'll make the ask again of course.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Also allocation is allocation - they will NOT change any reservations. Only recourse would be cancel and rebook which is frustrating. Basically, wyndham’s version of lump it or leave it.



Yup - as our FAQ answer indicates - it's a once and done deal.  This also applies to new reservations - the initial choice made between resale/developer is final and cannot be altered after the fact.


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

ok, my points got shifted this afternoon.  My resale points are now gone, and all the remaining points are now developer points.  So that call that dropped maybe did result in a shift of points.

Is there anyway to tell what reservations are using resale point?  If I filter current year by resale, I only get 1 cancellation and NO other bookings.  I too have a bunch of 0 point transactions, what is up with that?  I am basically guessing that the history of bookings is a bit screwed up. 

Strange.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> ok, my points got shifted this afternoon.  My resale points are now gone, and all the remaining points are now developer points.  So that call that dropped maybe did result in a shift of points.
> 
> Strange.


@HitchHiker71 can you add this question: are the backend changes completed or will things still change for a while? And if not done - when?


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

Tomorrow I'll start collecting up the data from this thread into a sheet and will share it with everyone here prior to any submission.  We can then track the items ongoing as we have done previously when the new website was released over a year ago now.  I'm juggling professional responsibilities today/tomorrow so this may slide into the weekend dependent upon how busy I am tomorrow on the job.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Yup - as our FAQ answer indicates - it's a once and done deal.  This also applies to new reservations - the initial choice made between resale/developer is final and cannot be altered after the fact.


This is where i . Wyndham basically said wait, trust us it will be great. And now they are like, it’s not great? It should be great, trust us, you’ll love it.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess my account will remain screwed up until my grandkids inherit it. And I don’t have grandkids. We all need t-shirts that say “ASK ME ABOUT WYNDHAM”. Let’s make them blue with white lettering… and wear them on vacation at the resorts!


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## keno999 (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> ok, my points got shifted this afternoon.  My resale points are now gone, and all the remaining points are now developer points.  So that call that dropped maybe did result in a shift of points.
> 
> Is there anyway to tell what reservations are using resale point?  If I filter current year by resale, I only get 1 cancellation and NO other bookings.  I too have a bunch of 0 point transactions, what is up with that?  I am basically guessing that the history of bookings is a bit screwed up.
> 
> Strange.


Mine were changed this afternoon as well.  All my resale points were allocated and all I have left are developer points for this year and next.  Housekeeping changed as well.


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## troy12n (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> This is where i . Wyndham basically said wait, trust us it will be great. And now they are like, it’s not great? It should be great, trust us, you’ll love it.
> 
> I’m going to go out on a limb and guess my account will remain screwed up until my grandkids inherit it. And I don’t have grandkids. We all need t-shirts that say “ASK ME ABOUT WYNDHAM”. Let’s make them blue with white lettering… and wear them on vacation at the resorts!



That's a very pessimistic view. Unless your kids are inheriting your timeshare in the next two use years, tops. The way I see this, whatever they did can only affect this current use year and the next use year, max. Because you can't touch points any further out than that yet. And the only way they could have even affected next UY is if you borrowed points already or booked trips next year.

There was bound to be people affected by this, and i'm guessing this is where the "bonus points" will come into play.

But you know what, let's really gripe about it now... takes focus away from you all complaining about losing your franchise free travel agencies, right?


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 12, 2021)

Now I have to figure out a method of booking, and cancelling and rebooking from developer to resale buckets. 

I guess holiday weeks with little chance of cancelling and rebooking inventory, with a high expectation of travel could use Resale right of the bat.  Just eat the RT right away.

But if there is not as good of a chance of the ultimate trip happening OR there is a good to better chance of ERP inventory being available then maybe starting off Developer is the way to go.  If if you are being more speculative use Developer. 

Now it comes down to certainly just paying reservation fees, which I know will annoy me, because I have never had to consider that.  But will run out of my 2 freebies on my 1 resale contract.  Guess I have to develop some new MOs and some spidey sense.


Another thing to add to the list of not working is the filters on transaction records.  I don't think that is working as intended.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 12, 2021)

I've been on the road today and am just now seeing all the changes.  I'm sure this has already been discussed, but the big issue I see is that for 2021 (and 2022) they randomly assigned certain reservations to be resale and certain reservations to be developer.  The Resale reservation points are double what I own for the year in 2021.  Example.  Over 400k points on reservations listed as resale between now and the end of the year while I only own 168k resale points.  I have no clue as to why they chose some to be resale and some to be developer with the exception of one reservation that I did not ask for an upgrade on.  If I choose to cancel a resale reservation before taking the resale reservation that I want to be counted as resale, the wrong buckets could be populated.

Maybe it's already been addressed, are we supposed to call to straighten this out?  Are they planning on doing an infamous 'fix' to put reservations that have upgrade requests as developer and leave those without an upgrade request as resale.

My account looks good other than the arbitrary resale/developer assignments.  Any advise on when or who to call.  Not an emergency, but I would like to hear if there is an arbiter available to fix the system assigned retail/developer assignments.  Thanks.


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## Eric B (Aug 12, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> ok, my points got shifted this afternoon.  My resale points are now gone, and all the remaining points are now developer points.  So that call that dropped maybe did result in a shift of points.
> 
> Is there anyway to tell what reservations are using resale point?  If I filter current year by resale, I only get 1 cancellation and NO other bookings.  I too have a bunch of 0 point transactions, what is up with that?  I am basically guessing that the history of bookings is a bit screwed up.
> 
> Strange.





keno999 said:


> Mine were changed this afternoon as well.  All my resale points were allocated and all I have left are developer points for this year and next.  Housekeeping changed as well.



My point allocations were changed for existing reservations this afternoon as well.  This effects a couple of reservations I'm very likely to cancel for this year due to travel conditions, resulting in a net of about 110K that will no longer return as developer points, but instead as resale points.  This might all come out in the wash depending on how they allocate the complimentary VIP-eligible points for next use year, but it's fairly predictable that the folks they are doing this to are the types of folks that will check this things when they first get the chance to.  I'm not planning on doing anything to the reservations I've got until things sort themselves out and will reserve judgement until the complimentary points show up, but must admit that I'm a bit annoyed with them right now.  Given the functionality (or lack thereof) of the site, I don't believe I can get accurate information from it anyway since the transaction details in the benefits summary page do not match the transaction details in the points summary page - that would be another item for feedback, @HitchHiker71, those numbers should match if they are really drawing from the same underlying back end databases.  It's a bit more annoying because I did what I could to figure out where things stood when the site came up initially, and the information on the two pages matched, but the latest changes have resulted in them not matching.  It's not that I don't fundamentally trust them (  ), but this whole bunch of shenanigans with the system and the poor communications on what the rules really are have resulted in serious straining of what little trust I had left.  I still don't think it will change my usage in any major way in the long run, but they do give the impression that they really need to get their collective act together.


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> My point allocations were changed for existing reservations this afternoon as well.


Let me join the chorus.... 
all my resale points used, all resale transactions used, all resale HK used... but all GC intact? Likely this all will change again as they mislabeled some contracts resale... but for now, here is where we are at.

Going reservation by reservation now is so frustrating. especially since if you truncate the loading of vacations when you go back to the page you have to reload it. stupid dynamic loading of websites.
reservation 1: mostly VIP points, some resale [would have selected this one to be all resale and over and done with it if I had been given a choice}
reservation 2: resale
reservation 3: VIP
reservation 4: VIP
reservation 5: resale (will need a GC)
reservation 6: mostly resale part VIP (will need a GC)
reservation 7: VIP
reservation 8: VIP
reservation 9: resale (has a GC, not charged)
reservation 10: VIP (has GC, charged from VIP pool)
reservation 11: VIP
reservation 12: VIP
reservation 13: about 1/2 resale 1/2 VIP (will need a GC)
reservation 14: (presidential reserve reservation at home resort) RESALE  (_anyone want to guess if we will get our presidential perks on this one???)_
reservation 15: (non presidential reserve but requested@ presidential home resort) VIP (will need GC)
reservation 16: resale
reservation 17: VIP

so 8 reservations with some sort of resale on it when it could have been just 2 of the higher point reservations. (and if they coded my contracts properly, 2/3 of the first vacation on the account in the use year and it would be one and done. I am going to have to buy a GC if this remains like this, and if anything needs to be changed will need to pay for RT. 

@HitchHiker71 
1. can you please add to the list: looking at current use year only includes transactions from June of this year, not all transactions for this use year - have to select all use years to be able to find them. and then you have to scroll through like 10 pages to find anything. Worse now with all the 0 transactions.
2. not sure if there is a way to throw this in the convo with your contacts, but with how my account was affected, there is a good chance I'll just let vacations sit unused and rebook with VIP points instead of paying for transaction fees. With the ongoing changes seems like less goodwill is being created and a lot more headache. I mean super seriously if they are going to give me make up points in 2021-2022, pretty good chances I'll just reserve a second room and leave the first unoccupied if it means a transaction fee to cancel it, or a fee to buy a GC.

my mood today:


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## paxsarah (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> if it means a transaction fee to cancel it


Reservation transactions are not required for cancellations, just for booking (and depositing to RCI).


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

keno999 said:


> Mine were changed this afternoon as well. All my resale points were allocated and all I have left are developer points for this year and next. Housekeeping changed as well.



It’s likely that the series of back office processes running to make the bucket changes must run serially and weren’t entirely complete at the end of the outage window this morning. So rather than postpone bringing the website back online they may have just let the back office processes continue after going live with the website changes. Pure speculation on my part but certainly feasible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> It’s likely that the series of back office processes running to make the bucket changes must run serially and weren’t entirely complete at the end of the outage window this morning. So rather than postpone bringing the website back online they may have just let the back office processes continue after going live with the website changes. Pure speculation on my part but certainly feasible.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Is this a polite way of saying :
Garbage in / garbage out ......


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> It’s likely that the series of back office processes running to make the bucket changes must run serially and weren’t entirely complete at the end of the outage window this morning. So rather than postpone bringing the website back online they may have just let the back office processes continue after going live with the website changes. Pure speculation on my part but certainly feasible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hah - or restarted with different rules when people started complaining? My resale points are on completely different reservations now than they were this am.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Hah - or restarted with different rules when people started complaining? My resale points are on completely different reservations now than they were this am.



Either way - I think it would be prudent to take a step back and let things settle out over the next couple of days and then see how our accounts look. I just checked my account again after taking a close look this morning and see quite a few changes since then as well. Things still aren’t quite right though - so I still expect more changes to the datasets over the next few business days. In the meantime we will start putting our list of bugs and enhancements together for submission. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wjappraise (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Either way - I think it would be prudent to take a step back and let things settle out over the next couple of days and then see how our accounts look. I just checked my account again after taking a close look this morning and see quite a few changes since then as well. Things still aren’t quite right though - so I still expect more changes to the datasets over the next few business days. In the meantime we will start putting our list of bugs and enhancements together for submission.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks CJ. 

We appreciate the enhanced communication you provide to us. And your patience with our collective frustration. And, of course, your assistance with some of the fixes for the programming bugs. My faith in Wyndham IT has never been ironclad, but I have been pleasantly surprised with this roll out (although this would have been so much better at year end) that I’ve actually been able to make a reservation after a major change. Typically I’m dead in the water with my account for a few days while Wyndham finds the bugs they should have with proper beta testing. Ah … a man can dream can’t he? So for Wyndham IT this rollout truly is the cream of the crap. Typo intended. 

Thanks for your work. And Richelle’s too. 

Wes.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 12, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> Thanks CJ.
> 
> We appreciate the enhanced communication you provide to us. And your patience with our collective frustration. And, of course, your assistance with some of the fixes for the programming bugs. My faith in Wyndham IT has never been ironclad, but I have been pleasantly surprised with this roll out (although this would have been so much better at year end) that I’ve actually been able to make a reservation after a major change. Typically I’m dead in the water with my account for a few days while Wyndham finds the bugs they should have with proper beta testing. Ah … a man can dream can’t he? So for Wyndham IT this rollout truly is the cream of the crap. Typo intended.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind words Wes. I actually just made a net new reservation today without any issues now that you mention it. Rio Mar for the first week of Feb 2022 for my wife’s 50th birthday. Flights are free as well since we have flight credits with Southwest to burn. 

We will get through these changes together - that’s what we do here on TUG! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VacayKat (Aug 12, 2021)

One other thing that makes me nuts is I now have to search twice for availability if I am not sure which points I want to use. Presumably looking with developer will show all availability for resale as well but would like some confirmation that is the case.


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## wjappraise (Aug 12, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> One other thing that makes me nuts is I now have to search twice for availability if I am not sure which points I want to use. Presumably looking with developer will show all availability for resale as well but would like some confirmation that is the case.



That’s been my experience thus far. It’s going to be a journey, but so much better start then when Voyager was first introduced. 
Wes.


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## wjappraise (Aug 12, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for the kind words Wes. I actually just made a net new reservation today without any issues now that you mention it. Rio Mar for the first week of Feb 2022 for my wife’s 50th birthday. Flights are free as well since we have flight credits with Southwest to burn.
> 
> We will get through these changes together - that’s what we do here on TUG!
> 
> ...



Wow. I reserved the same week months ago. My wife’s sister lives in PR and what better time to visit than February. But I love not staying with them when we visit. Someday I’ll bore you with the story about why we bought TS 25 years ago - Fairfield at the time. It has to do with staying in Florida at my other SIL house with her six cats …. I’ll buy you a Margarita or beer - if you remind me. I’m older than you (unless you robbed the cradle). 

Wes.


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## Free2Roam (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I actually just made a net new reservation today without any issues now that you mention it.



I made a new reservation a few hours ago. And even though it showed that I was out of reservation transactions, it did not charge me for one. I was actually surprised to see the confirmation screen without a request for payment. Can't wait to see how that turns out. Will they let it slide? Will the reservation disappear? Or maybe they'll add the charge to my account and never tell me about it... and it'll just sit there for years until something happens and I request financial history? (yes, I had that happen years ago... can't remember what the charge was for.)


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## 9969hi (Aug 13, 2021)

It seems Wyndham treated me quite well for 2021 as all my points were indicated to be developer purchased points even tough I own 660,000 resale points. I had a huge point balance starting out 2021 due to cancellations and points moved forward in previous years. I have 25 guest certificates left , if you move a million points forward do the 15 guest certificates travel with that deposit? I am having trouble finding renters to use up this years points.


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## wjappraise (Aug 13, 2021)

Free2Roam said:


> I made a new reservation a few hours ago. And even though it showed that I was out of reservation transactions, it did not charge me for one. I was actually surprised to see the confirmation screen without a request for payment. Can't wait to see how that turns out. Will they let it slide? Will the reservation disappear? Or maybe they'll add the charge to my account and never tell me about it... and it'll just sit there for years until something happens and I request financial history? (yes, I had that happen years ago... can't remember what the charge was for.)



I believe Wyndham is waiving reservation transaction fees for the rest of august. 

Wes.


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## wjappraise (Aug 13, 2021)

9969hi said:


> It seems Wyndham treated me quite well for 2021 as all my points were indicated to be developer purchased points even tough I own 660,000 resale points. I had a huge point balance starting out 2021 due to cancellations and points moved forward in previous years. I have 25 guest certificates left , if you move a million points forward do the 15 guest certificates travel with that deposit? I am having trouble finding renters to use up this years points.



Unfortunately GCs do not travel with the points during a points deposit. It’s use them or lose them in the calendar year assigned. 

And stay tuned for how your points are designated. They’ve changed already today. Early in the day most of us had some developer and some resale. And mid afternoon it appears they all switched to developer points. Mine are now half and half as I canceled three reservations that were apparently designated as resale points booked. 

It’s going to be a bumpy ride for a while. At least this time we have some input from CJ and Richelle to keep us informed. I still can’t get my head around the fact that a Fortune 500 company has to use volunteers to fix their website issues … and provide the most informative dialog ever given me as an “owner.” But we are thankful for our insiders. 

Wes.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

On an amusing note, I have one reservation coming up this year that cost 130,000 points.  The system has it allocated as being 2,802 developer points and 120,373 resale points.  I can't wait to see what happens if I cancel it.    Makes me wonder what logic they used to divide up the transactions between developer and resale.  Maybe they're trying to make up for all the extra points they dumped in @am1 's account over the years....

Also, the system updated to document usage of a housekeeping credit for a resale reservation I have in my next use year - that's as it should be, so they can do simple math like 1 = 1.


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## dgalati (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for the kind words Wes. I actually just made a net new reservation today without any issues now that you mention it. Rio Mar for the first week of Feb 2022 for my wife’s 50th birthday. Flights are free as well since we have flight credits with Southwest to burn.
> 
> We will get through these changes together - that’s what we do here on TUG!
> 
> ...


Nice to see someone else is getting a free ride on Southwest. I have a companion pass and booked all flights with points over the last several years.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Agreed - I think that's an enhancement request we need to submit - filter out the buckets that don't need to display specific to the owner account.


Those type of requests scare me. I'd rather see things I don't need to, rather not see things I need to see. And history shows some things are best left alone.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Yup - as our FAQ answer indicates - it's a once and done deal.  This also applies to new reservations - the initial choice made between resale/developer is final and cannot be altered after the fact.


I can understand moving forward, when we book reservations there are no adjustments (although really, shouldn't there always be some allowance for corrections)?  But, really, not acceptable to me that they won't fix things they improperly converted. Once again, Wyndham bullying some of their best customers.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 13, 2021)

dgalati said:


> Nice to see someone else is getting a free ride on Southwest. I have a companion pass and booked all flights with points over the last several years.


If Southwest weren't so flexible, I wouldn't have so many changes/challenges for my family reunions.       (We love Southwest).


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> One other thing that makes me nuts is I now have to search twice for availability if I am not sure which points I want to use. Presumably looking with developer will show all availability for resale as well but would like some confirmation that is the case.


That's my impression at this point. Wondering maybe if you were looking for something 13 months out at your home resort, something like that, if that would make a difference (but haven't played with that at all). 
Pretty sure I want to see what is there before deciding to use developer or resale. But at least it's a quick switch from one to the other, after the search and before you select to book.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 13, 2021)

At least they got this right -- calling it the Crp Migration


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 13, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> ........ the story about why we bought TS 25 years ago - Fairfield at the time. It has to do with staying in Florida at my other SIL house with her six cats ….
> Wes.


1996
So the salesperson said:
- we don't allow cats / sign on the dotted line , and you were done ?
********
2021
1 )where in the original documents or contract does It say no cats.?
2 ) Is it part of the no commercial use verbiage ?
3 ) Do resale or feral cats qualify for VIP
4 ) Are  4 cats family vacation use , but 6 cats is running a business ?
5 ) in which bucket can you find your cats?

Can @HitchHiker71 confirm the above with Wyndham contacts


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## paxsarah (Aug 13, 2021)

Yes, I think the only thing developer wouldn’t show is ARP at a resale location (that you don’t also own developer of). Resale wouldn’t show developer ARP, 11 month RARP, plus Margaritaville outside 5 months or Outrigger.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Yes, I think the only thing developer wouldn’t show is ARP at a resale location (that you don’t also own developer of). Resale wouldn’t show developer ARP, 11 month RARP, plus Margaritaville outside 5 months or Outrigger.



… mine would show Outrigger.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 13, 2021)

I created my spreadsheet of pending reservations this morning.  Thankfully, I only have 16 reservations between what is left in 2021 and for all of 2022.  I have more resale points assigned to these pending reservations then I actually own (almost 2X), in both 2021 and 2022.  And, things changed during the night.  What a Mess!!!  Glad that I don't have any need for new reservations or any need to do cancellations.


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## paxsarah (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> … mine would show Outrigger.


That’s true, if you own it. I guess that’s not actually resale/developer at all - I was just thinking of what didn’t show for me during the “filter only what you can book” debacle. Same is true for Margaritaville, if you own Margaritaville resale.

My main point being, there’s very little resale is prevented from seeing in an availability search simply for being resale.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

One more item for your list, @HitchHiker71 - I tried to check out the functionality for the points deposit feature to see if the numbers there match what I believe mine should be for resale and developer and it shows 0 developer points available to deposit.  I am VIPG with a January/December use year and have 93,322 points available, of which 26,623 should be developer points based on the allocations they are showing in the system.  When I select resale points as the source it indicates that I cannot deposit because it's past the deadline despite the specific allowance for that for the remainder of the year.  When I select "All Purchase Types" it spins for a little bit and kicks me back to the original page without doing anything.

Might be that the system isn't ready for prime time yet, though they indicated it was on line in their email.  Or it might be a problem in the implementation.  I had not intended to actually execute the deposit yet, but wanted to see what it thought my allocations were - I've got one of those weird display situations where it's showing current year in the points summary as being a bonus contract one that ran 10/1/2019-9/30/2021 and have been needing to rely on the display of current year points in the upper right hand corner and the dashboard to see what my remaining points for 1/1/2021-12/31/2021.


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## Braindead (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> … mine would show Outrigger.


Mine does show Outrigger as ORC on the benefits page


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## VacayKat (Aug 13, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Reservation transactions are not required for cancellations, just for booking (and depositing to RCI).


Did not know that... but if I still have to pay to use the points after the cancellation not so much worth my time if they give me enough to cover in future years - having to pay when Wyndham could have made much more intelligent decisions on how to use my points is not something I am inclined to do.


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## VacayKat (Aug 13, 2021)

Oh - one other thing from my call yesterday:
If a reservation has an upgrade request on it, even if it is now a resale transaction that request stands and will remain active.  @HitchHiker71 might be worth adding to the list of questions for confirmation.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> ... having to pay when Wyndham could have made much more intelligent decisions on how to use my points is not something I am inclined to do.



Don't forget that there are no reservation transaction fees being charged for online transactions for all of August.


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## VacayKat (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Don't forget that there are no reservation transaction fees being charged for online transactions for all of August.


true - but what are the chances that Wyndham will get their act together by end of august so I know exactly what they've done and how it will stand? I mean if past experience holds true, I should not have much confidence. My account is now (again) in the "I'll have to look into that" stage of owner care help. Since I have an ongoing case (which they finally made a case after ~ a year) that does not appear to have any priority, or any progress, the company is just underwhelming me in their efficiency and competency.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 13, 2021)

I called the number on the email to address issues with how developer and resale was assigned to future reservations.  Got the ‘can’t help you with that’ response.  Can’t believe Wyndham computer system would just arbitrarily, via some crazy algorithm, assign how many points to assign to future reservations.

So how will they remedy the fallout from the above problem that can’t be fixed?  ‘Bonus developer points being added to 2022 in the amount of 50% (since you are VIPP) of your resale points, up to 400,000 points.’

Got past that and went on to issue 2, why do resale points on future reservations add up to more than my total resale points in both 2021 and 2022? Response, ‘We can audit that’. Ok, audit that. Should have a response in 5 to 7 business days.

Very nice conversation with someone who seemed to know what she was talking about.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> One other thing that makes me nuts is I now have to search twice for availability if I am not sure which points I want to use. Presumably looking with developer will show all availability for resale as well but would like some confirmation that is the case.



I haven't run through the various use cases myself - but my initial thinking is that unless you're attempting to search for availability leveraging VIP benefits - there would be no difference when viewing available inventory with developer vs resale - so this issue is really limited only to VIP resale owners.  I'm referring to MVC, RARP, etc.  This should be something you know in advance of initiating a search - at least I would know - but that's IMHO of course.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

wjappraise said:


> Wow. I reserved the same week months ago. My wife’s sister lives in PR and what better time to visit than February. But I love not staying with them when we visit. Someday I’ll bore you with the story about why we bought TS 25 years ago - Fairfield at the time. It has to do with staying in Florida at my other SIL house with her six cats …. I’ll buy you a Margarita or beer - if you remind me. I’m older than you (unless you robbed the cradle).
> 
> Wes.



LOL - we'll see you there then Wes!  Let's definitely meet up for an alcoholic beverage while there.  We'll be there from Jan 31-Feb 6 - at least that's the current plan.  I turn 50 myself in October this year - I'm a few months ahead of my better half.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

dgalati said:


> Nice to see someone else is getting a free ride on Southwest. I have a companion pass and booked all flights with points over the last several years.



The best part is it's literally 100% free for us.  Back in Jan 2020 we booked flights for a company sponsored event - and the flights weren't cheap - about $1400 for the two of us to fly to the Bahamas at that time - mostly because the company waited until the last minute to green light the trip (it was one of those trips for the annual best performers type thing).  Spouses were included as well.  All expenses paid type trip.  So I expensed the airline charges as usual.  Then the pandemic ramped up - and they postponed the entire trip at the last minute.  Then we got acquired in Sept 2020 - so no more trip - so the acquiring company handed us a $3k expense bonus as compensation for the trip cancellation - plus we got to keep the airline tickets.  So we've got $1400 in Southwest flights to burn between now and 9/7/2022 (that's the current expiration date - Southwest kept pushing it out due to the pandemic).  That's at least two round trips for us under regular circumstances - which means we can take two couples trips with flights for no cost outlay.  I'll take it.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> Those type of requests scare me. I'd rather see things I don't need to, rather not see things I need to see. And history shows some things are best left alone.



Perhaps the enhancement request is to allow for your Benefits Summary to display just that - the Benefits you actually want to see.  So allow for the account owner to display/hide the buckets via settings that are saved as part of your account.  So if I could care less about the developer HK bucket for example - since it's unlimited - allow me to hide it at my discretion.  This was actually my primary complaint about the entire Owner Dashboard itself.  Dashboards should be customizable by the owner - such that I can configure my dashboard according to my ownership preferences.  This still remains my primary ask for the dashboard functions today.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> true - but what are the chances that Wyndham will get their act together by end of august so I know exactly what they've done and how it will stand? I mean if past experience holds true, I should not have much confidence. My account is now (again) in the "I'll have to look into that" stage of owner care help. Since I have an ongoing case (which they finally made a case after ~ a year) that does not appear to have any priority, or any progress, the company is just underwhelming me in their efficiency and competency.



Did they give you a case number?  If so, PM me the case number, once things calm down a bit from these recent changes, I can try to get your case in front of someone directly and see if we can get you some dedicated help/attention.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> So how will they remedy the fallout from the above problem that can’t be fixed?  ‘Bonus points being added to 2022 in the amount of 50% (since you are VIPP) of your resale points, up to 400,000 points.’



That's a very interesting response - because on the education session last week - IIRC Vanity indicated that the complimentary points would be developer points only.  Are you saying the complimentary points will be resale points?  Or they are simply calculating the complimentary points based upon your resale points owned - but into the developer future use year bucket?



> Got past that and went on to issue 2, why do resale points on future reservations add up to more than my total resale points in both 2021 and 2022? Response, ‘We can audit that’. Ok, audit that. Should have a response in 5 to 7 business days.
> 
> Very nice conversation with someone who seemed to know what she was talking about.



Very nice to know we can request an audit from this team.  That's good info for everyone here.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> That's a very interesting response - because on the education session last week - IIRC Vanity indicated that the complimentary points would be developer points only.  Are you saying the complimentary points will be resale points?  Or they are simply calculating the complimentary points based upon your resale points owned - but into the developer future use year bucket?
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice to know we can request an audit from this team.  That's good info for everyone here.


The 50% would be added as Developer Points.  I’ll update my post to be more clear.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> Yep.  By the fact that he is temporary platinum, a bonus contract would be in play.



I was temp VIPP until 9/30/2020 - I dropped down to VIPG after that date.  My original bonus contract was from 10/1/2018 - 9/30/2020 - so I can't really explain the two year bucket from 10/1/2019 - 9/30/2021 as a result.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

A couple of you raised a very valid bug fix for the HK credits showing differently between the Points Summary and the Benefits Summary.  Selfishly, I actually like seeing the HKs broken down differently on the Benefits Summary - because it tells me exactly how much of my VIP benefits are being paid for out of the program fees vs the Sales & Marketing division.





I've learned in my travels that the program fee covers the non-VIP contract costs - whereas the Sales & Marketing division pays for any/all costs beyond those normal consumption.  So in the graphic above - for my current use year - so far - I can see that my program fee covered costs for seven HKs, and the Sales & Marketing division covered the costs of two HK credits (to date) for this year.  Interesting tidbit to "see" via this new Benefits Summary page.  We should still ask for it to say "unlimited" to match the Points Summary page to be clear - since it is confusing - but it makes perfect sense to me why they are tracking this data - because they have to do so to divide up the internal departmental costs properly.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> So how will they remedy the fallout from the above problem that can’t be fixed? ‘Bonus points being added to 2022 in the amount of 50% (since you are VIPP) of your resale points, up to 400,000 points.’



Hmmm, I wonder if they're planning on giving me 35% of my resale points as VIP-eligible points since I'm VIPG.  That kind of makes sense as representing what I could have gotten as discounts.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> One more item for your list, @HitchHiker71 - I tried to check out the functionality for the points deposit feature to see if the numbers there match what I believe mine should be for resale and developer and it shows 0 developer points available to deposit.  I am VIPG with a January/December use year and have 93,322 points available, of which 26,623 should be developer points based on the allocations they are showing in the system.  When I select resale points as the source it indicates that I cannot deposit because it's past the deadline despite the specific allowance for that for the remainder of the year.  When I select "All Purchase Types" it spins for a little bit and kicks me back to the original page without doing anything.
> 
> Might be that the system isn't ready for prime time yet, though they indicated it was on line in their email.  Or it might be a problem in the implementation.  I had not intended to actually execute the deposit yet, but wanted to see what it thought my allocations were - I've got one of those weird display situations where it's showing current year in the points summary as being a bonus contract one that ran 10/1/2019-9/30/2021 and have been needing to rely on the display of current year points in the upper right hand corner and the dashboard to see what my remaining points for 1/1/2021-12/31/2021.



I can certainly add this to our bug report list.  In the interim - I would call into the dedicated line and see if they can do it for you - if you really need to get it done sooner rather than later.  I know the next sprint release is currently scheduled for 9/1/2021 so unless a particular fix is considered urgent and requires a dedicated CR - the earliest we would see a change would be 9/1/2021 - and that's assuming any one fix can be coded and rolled out within a two week window between now and then.  

I saw more changes to my dataset overnight last night as well.  This makes me believe more firmly that the back office team is still running code to fix data integrity issues and to properly align the dataset so that it displays properly via the Benefits Summary that the front office website DT team rolled out.  The problem with exposing more data via the website - as we're all seeing with our own eyes now - is that the data integrity has to be correct.  In a way - as painful as this might be for us in the short term - long term this is a good thing what we're going through now - because if additional data exposure results in better data integrity on the back end - that's not a bad thing.  I may recommend to my contacts that they consider keeping the dedicated support line around through year end as opposed to the current 30 day window - to allow the subset of owners more time to get account audits sorted out and get our data integrity issues resolved.


----------



## scootr5 (Aug 13, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Is your Benefits Summary tab populated at all? Mine is completely blank (as was another resale owner's further back in the thread).



Just curious if yours is still blank today? Mine still is.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I can certainly add this to our bug report list.  In the interim - I would call into the dedicated line and see if they can do it for you - if you really need to get it done sooner rather than later.  I know the next sprint release is currently scheduled for 9/1/2021 so unless a particular fix is considered urgent and requires a dedicated CR - the earliest we would see a change would be 9/1/2021 - and that's assuming any one fix can be coded and rolled out within a two week window between now and then.
> 
> I saw more changes to my dataset overnight last night as well.  This makes me believe more firmly that the back office team is still running code to fix data integrity issues and to properly align the dataset so that it displays properly via the Benefits Summary that the front office website DT team rolled out.  The problem with exposing more data via the website - as we're all seeing with our own eyes now - is that the data integrity has to be correct.  In a way - as painful as this might be for us in the short term - long term this is a good thing what we're going through now - because if additional data exposure results in better data integrity on the back end - that's not a bad thing.  I may recommend to my contacts that they consider keeping the dedicated support line around through year end as opposed to the current 30 day window - to allow the subset of owners more time to get account audits sorted out and get our data integrity issues resolved.



I'm hoping to wait until they finish up fixing the data before I do anything - I'm seeing a lot of movement in things, too.  The only thing is that they're only waiving RT fees for online transactions through the end of August and they just updated my usage statistics to take away all my resale RTs for this year retroactively, so that adds to the cost (even if it's just a minor amount).


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## troy12n (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> So we've got $1400 in Southwest flights to burn between now and 9/7/2022 (that's the current expiration date - Southwest kept pushing it out due to the pandemic).



I have about $1200 in credits split between Delta and JetBlue for a trip I booked for me and my wife in April 2020. I have no idea how i'm going to use them because the Delta points expire in December, and i'm not sure when the JetBlue credits expire. But JetBlue really has limited destination, so im worried that money is sunk at this point.


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## paxsarah (Aug 13, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> Just curious if yours is still blank today? Mine still is.


Yep. And my transaction history is still broken into weird chunks.

Edit: although out of curiosity I did start the reservation process for an ARP reservation in each of my two deeds with ARP next year, and both seemed like they would go through. So although it *looks* like the points in the transaction history might be calling back to specific deeds in my existing reservations for next year, in terms of *benefits* it appears the ARP hasn't been touched. Probably.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> true - but what are the chances that Wyndham will get their act together by end of august so I know exactly what they've done and how it will stand? I mean if past experience holds true, I should not have much confidence. My account is now (again) in the "I'll have to look into that" stage of owner care help. Since I have an ongoing case (which they finally made a case after ~ a year) that does not appear to have any priority, or any progress, the company is just underwhelming me in their efficiency and competency.



The timing of the moratorium on RTs for the month of August is interesting, when coupled with the next sprint release date of 9/1/2021.  There's at least a possibility that the changes rolled out don't currently have the coding in place to handle RTs properly - so they offered up the incentive/moratorium on RTs to bypass the issue and not delay the introduction of the Benefits Summary any further.  If I'm right - the spring release on 9/1/2021 would actually implement the updated RT processing code base.  Pure speculation on my part to be clear - but the timing lines up and I don't generally believe in coincidences.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if they're planning on giving me 35% of my resale points as VIP-eligible points since I'm VIPG.  That kind of makes sense as representing what I could have gotten as discounts.


I would assume so since she tied the 50% to my VIPP, but you can call and ask.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

troy12n said:


> I have about $1200 in credits split between Delta and JetBlue for a trip I booked for me and my wife in April 2020. I have no idea how i'm going to use them because the Delta points expire in December, and i'm not sure when the JetBlue credits expire. But JetBlue really has limited destination, so im worried that money is sunk at this point.



Yeah - we also have 100k FF miles with Frontier airlines from flights that we originally cancelled for a Florida trip back in Spring 2020.  Frontier initially gave us airline credits - and then later offered a conversion into FF miles.  Given the initial cost of our flights would equate to about 50k FF miles - we took the conversion offer - as those miles also won't expire as quickly.  Currently the 100k FF miles expiration shows as N/A - but they will likely insert an expiration date at some point this fall best estimate.  Frontier just restarted flights between Orlando and our local airport on Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday routes - often for very cheap prices - so we plan to use Frontier for quick trips back and forth to Orlando at least a couple times a year.


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## 55plus (Aug 13, 2021)

9969hi said:


> It seems Wyndham treated me quite well for 2021 as all my points were indicated to be developer purchased points even tough I own 660,000 resale points.


Same here. My 900K+ resale all show up as developer points in my VIPP account going forward according to the website. I don't know how this could happen being that resale points are coded differently than developer. This is a dream come true for a mega renters. I assume it'll correct itself once they are done and the smoke settles.


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## Ty1on (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Yeah - we also have 100k FF miles with Frontier airlines from flights that we originally cancelled for a Florida trip back in Spring 2020.  Frontier initially gave us airline credits - and then later offered a conversion into FF miles.  Given the initial cost of our flights would equate to about 50k FF miles - we took the conversion offer - as those miles also won't expire as quickly.  Currently the 100k FF miles expiration shows as N/A - but they will likely insert an expiration date at some point this fall best estimate.  Frontier just restarted flights between Orlando and our local airport on Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday routes - often for very cheap prices - so we plan to use Frontier for quick trips back and forth to Orlando at least a couple times a year.



What I saw in the Frontier FF rules is that points are expired of 6 months pass with no transactions that generate or use points.  This was in relation to their credit card, though.  Your miles might be treated differently.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Aug 13, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> Just curious if yours is still blank today? Mine still is.


try changing the year you are seeing, it does not appear on some of the intervals there, but it does appear for the 2021 interval.


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## ladawgfan (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I haven't run through the various use cases myself - but my initial thinking is that unless you're attempting to search for availability leveraging VIP benefits - there would be no difference when viewing available inventory with developer vs resale - so this issue is really limited only to VIP resale owners.  I'm referring to MVC, RARP, etc.  This should be something you know in advance of initiating a search - at least I would know - but that's IMHO of course.


It makes no sense to me why developer vs resale needs to be chosen as part of the search inventory request. For developer only or resale owner only requests, this shouldn't be applicable. As an owner of both types, I'd like to see my reservation availability options before I make that determination. Wouldn't it make more sense to request this election as part of the actual booking process, similar to the election for point protection?


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## ladawgfan (Aug 13, 2021)

Shouldn't available reservation transactions and guest certificates for future use years be provided on the points summary tab similar to as they are identified for the current use year? Also, could someone recap how the number of reservation transactions and housekeeping credits someone is entitled to are calculated? I'm too lazy to search through all the previous threads on the system changes to find a previous post providing that information!


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## scootr5 (Aug 13, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> try changing the year you are seeing, it does not appear on some of the intervals there, but it does appear for the 2021 interval.



I don't have any option to select a year, it's just blank white space.


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## VacayKat (Aug 13, 2021)

@HitchHiker71 another discrepancy is my ORC available points and the points available on the contract which give me this ability do not match - 24,600 less on ORC. I guess at the end of the day it doesn’t matter though as wyndham won’t let me book outrigger properties.

also still no RARP or rental showing. Guess wyndham says sorry - not you on this one either? Lol


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## markb53 (Aug 13, 2021)

I’ve been waiting with curiosity to see how the handle my account, since I am not VIP, but I do own both Developer purchased and Resale points. I do see the benefits summary but I don’t have the dropdown menu to choose Developer or Resale. I was a little confused by the entries below in the Benefit summary for 1/1/2020 until I figured out that it was Wyndham populating the various buckets. My resale contract had all the same entries except Club Pass, since I can’t use resale points for Club Pass.


Charitable Gift+ 105,000 pointsClub Pass+ 105,000 pointsCWA ARP+ 105,000 pointsCWP+ 105,000 pointsCWP Points+ 105,000 pointsExternal Exchange+ 105,000 pointsHousekeeping Credits+ 105Plus Partners+ 105,000 pointsPoints Deposit Feature+ 105,000 pointsWyndham Rewards Conversion+ 105,000 points


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## paxsarah (Aug 13, 2021)

markb53 said:


> I’ve been waiting with curiosity to see how the handle my account, since I am not VIP, but I do own both Developer purchased and Resale points.


Thanks for sharing this - I’ve been curious how that type of account would display.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

ladawgfan said:


> It makes no sense to me why developer vs resale needs to be chosen as part of the search inventory request. For developer only or resale owner only requests, this shouldn't be applicable. As an owner of both types, I'd like to see my reservation availability options before I make that determination. Wouldn't it make more sense to request this election as part of the actual booking process, similar to the election for point protection?



Since I'm a hybrid VIP owner - I cannot comment as to whether these buckets still display for either developer only or resale only owners.  Perhaps someone else can provide an answer for these use cases.  

For hybrid VIP owners - showing availability options without knowing the transaction type could result in showing you something that you actually cannot book dependent upon the use case in scope.  The system needs to know whether VIP benefits are in scope or not when displaying availability results (RARP for example).  I haven't run many availability searches just yet - but when I booked a developer reservation for Rio Mar yesterday - using the monthly availability calendar - it was pretty easy to toggle back and forth between developer and resale and see what the availability differences were.  

It's not as simple as a binary choice like points protection during the booking process.  It is likely that the availability search engine on some level ensures that the booking engine can correctly process the requested reservation.  If this is the case - in order to do what you're asking the booking process would have to code in a level of logic to ensure whether booking the displayed reservation is even feasible.  Might be something that they can look to improve in the future - but not on initial implementation.  If we collectively feel that changing the order of steps - after getting some real world experience using the updated system over the next few weeks - then we can form an enhancement request at that time.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

ladawgfan said:


> Shouldn't available reservation transactions and guest certificates for future use years be provided on the points summary tab similar to as they are identified for the current use year? Also, could someone recap how the number of reservation transactions and housekeeping credits someone is entitled to are calculated? I'm too lazy to search through all the previous threads on the system changes to find a previous post providing that information!



IIRC it's 70k/HK credit and 77k/RT.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> I don't have any option to select a year, it's just blank white space.
> 
> View attachment 38643



Have you tried other browsers/other devices to ensure this isn't device specific?


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

markb53 said:


> I’ve been waiting with curiosity to see how the handle my account, since I am not VIP, but I do own both Developer purchased and Resale points. I do see the benefits summary but I don’t have the dropdown menu to choose Developer or Resale. I was a little confused by the entries below in the Benefit summary for 1/1/2020 until I figured out that it was Wyndham populating the various buckets. My resale contract had all the same entries except Club Pass, since I can’t use resale points for Club Pass.
> 
> 
> Charitable Gift+ 105,000 pointsClub Pass+ 105,000 pointsCWA ARP+ 105,000 pointsCWP+ 105,000 pointsCWP Points+ 105,000 pointsExternal Exchange+ 105,000 pointsHousekeeping Credits+ 105Plus Partners+ 105,000 pointsPoints Deposit Feature+ 105,000 pointsWyndham Rewards Conversion+ 105,000 points



That makes sense - since you aren't a VIP owner - effectively there's no discernable differences between your developer points and your resale points - so no need to differentiate when making reservations or performing availability searches.


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## Zeke_62 (Aug 13, 2021)

I do see changes in my account since yesterday morning, but 2023is still not correct.  
Wyndham seems to have no patience, but why not just start this at the first full year available.  So for most, this would be points that expire Dec 2023.  Grant all points for 2021 and 2022 as developer.  Then make the split when no points would have been in a reservation or borrowed.  That would also allow us to decide on actions to either keep and use resale contracts differently than we have been, or to sell or return using certified exit.  And, starting with 2023 points, we would be able to decide for ourselves.  None of this debaucle, no "extra points".  Just a clean cut in.


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## Eric B (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> IIRC it's 77k/HK credit and 70k/RT.



You've got them backwards.

*Reservation Transactions*
Reservation Transactions are your ticket to great vacations and are required for specific transactions within the Club Wyndham program. One Reservation Transaction is needed for each of the following transactions:

Resort reservations
Worldwide External Exchange deposits
Adventures by Club Wyndham
Cruising with Club Wyndham
Converting points to maintenance dollars
Wyndham Club Pass reservations
*You’ll receive one Reservation Transaction for every 77,000* points you own. If you need additional Reservation Transactions throughout the year to complete a transaction, you can purchase additional Reservation Transactions for $19 online or $39 with a Vacation Guide.

*Housekeeping Credits*
Vacation without the housework, because your travels should be worry-free. Your housekeeping credits are used for cleaning your suite prior to arrival and are deducted along with your points when you make a Club Wyndham or Wyndham Club Pass reservation. You will need one housekeeping credit per reservation, regardless of your suite size and length of stay.
Housekeeping credits are awarded annually or biennially with your points at the start of your Use Year. Like your points, they expire at the end of your Use Year. *One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own.*
If you’re an owner with VIP benefits who purchased into the VIP program at the Silver, Gold, or Platinum level on or before Nov. 10, 2020, you will receive unlimited housekeeping credits as a part of your VIP booking benefits, and will not be charged for housekeeping credits when making a reservation.
If you’re an owner with VIP benefits who purchased into an eligible tier after Nov. 10, 2020, you will receive the following supplemental allotment based on your tier level, in addition to your annual award of housekeeping credits:

VIP Bronze:                +1
VIP Silver:                   +2
VIP Gold:                    +4
VIP Platinum:             +6
VIP Founders:            +8
So, vacation like a pro and leave the housework at home.
*Important Information:*

Housekeeping credits are used along with your points for the following transactions:  
• Club Wyndham resort reservation
  • Wyndham Club Pass resort reservation
One (1) housekeeping credit is required per reservation, along with your points, regardless of the length of stay or suite size, and are deducted from the Use Year in which travel occurs.
If you run out of housekeeping credits, you may complete your reservation by purchasing additional credits for $159 per credit at the time of booking.
Need to change your plans?  If a reservation is cancelled in accordance with the cancellation policy, housekeeping credits are returned to the Use Year from which they came or refunded to the original source of payment. 
Any unused housekeeping credits will expire at the end of your Use Year.
Legacy and Club Wyndham owners with VIP benefits will continue to receive unlimited housekeeping credits.
Only VIP-Eligible Points are eligible for VIP benefits. For more information about VIP eligibility, please click here.
For biennial contracts, housekeeping credits will be allocated on the years you receive your points.
Housekeeping credits cannot be applied toward additional suite cleanings during your stay.


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## markb53 (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> That makes sense - since you aren't a VIP owner - effectively there's no discernable differences between your developer points and your resale points - so no need to differentiate when making reservations or performing availability searches.



I Agree. Here is something interesting I discovered in the Benefits Summary


12/25/2020Membership Award
Guest Confirmations+ 2Points Rental+ 287,000 pointsPoints Transfers Limit+ 1Reservation Transactions+ 3Waitlist Limit+ 1


All makes sense, except what are the Points Transfer Limit and the Waitlist Limit. Are we getting a Waitlist


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

Eric B said:


> You've got them backwards.



Original post corrected - I always get them backwards for some reason.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

markb53 said:


> I Agree. Here is something interesting I discovered in the Benefits Summary
> 
> 
> 12/25/2020Membership Award
> ...



 I see something similar in my Tx history as well:





Who knows what that data is actually for - perhaps over time we'll learn more about some of the data we're now seeing that we haven't been able to see previously.  I'll take this screenshot and see if I can get any guidance as well.


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## Rolltydr (Aug 13, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I see something similar in my Tx history as well:
> 
> View attachment 38659
> 
> Who knows what that data is actually for - perhaps over time we'll learn more about some of the data we're now seeing that we haven't been able to see previously.  I'll take this screenshot and see if I can get any guidance as well.


There is also a virtual session scheduled for Tuesday (8/17) at 6pm EDT to educate owners about the changes.


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## paxsarah (Aug 13, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> I don't have any option to select a year, it's just blank white space.





HitchHiker71 said:


> Have you tried other browsers/other devices to ensure this isn't device specific?


Same here - Chrome and Safari on iPhone, Chrome on Windows (didn’t get around to firing up a second browser on my laptop).

I guess it’s true what the salespeople have said all along - resale really has no benefits (summary)!


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## dgalati (Aug 13, 2021)

troy12n said:


> I have about $1200 in credits split between Delta and JetBlue for a trip I booked for me and my wife in April 2020. I have no idea how i'm going to use them because the Delta points expire in December, and i'm not sure when the JetBlue credits expire. But JetBlue really has limited destination, so im worried that money is sunk at this point.


Did you use points that were returned or is it a credit voucher for you or your wife only?


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## VacayKat (Aug 13, 2021)

Rolltydr said:


> There is also a virtual session scheduled for Tuesday (8/17) at 6pm EDT to educate owners about the changes.


Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!


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## Rolltydr (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!


I haven’t really seen that many problems. I think we’re going to be fine.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 13, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!



No, but the education session isn’t for troubleshooting problems - it is for education. Any/all questions that anyone posts about specific account problems are likely to be given a generic answer to contact the dedicated helpline - as they should be given that’s not the purpose of the planned education session. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scootr5 (Aug 13, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Same here - Chrome and Safari on iPhone, Chrome on Windows (didn’t get around to firing up a second browser on my laptop).
> 
> I guess it’s true what the salespeople have said all along - resale really has no benefits (summary)!


yes, I’ve tried multiple browsers/devices/platforms/OSes along with clearing all caches and cookies, and private browsing.


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## happyhopian (Aug 14, 2021)

No one has addressed the obvious question to me. Why do this? I know the answer, which is to stop VIP from using resale points to get benefits but do they really think anyone who is VIP will buy additional developer points to replace what they had in resale? If they do then they truly are stupid. More importantly they have finally reduced the value of the resale points to zero which I think makes the value prop on the purchase even harder to accept when making new sales. Disney does a great job of managing and pushing resale value which makes that purchase a great option - the best on the market for value INHM but also the most expensive and limited usage areas.

I've always respected wyndham and will continue to use my point which are about 1.2 million in developer (though the vast majority are from grandfathered transactions) and the resale points. I'm not sure at this point what I'll do with them. I'm listening to others about using them to hold or book out x period where they otherwise can't be used.

Does anyone know:

Can resale points be moved forward and under what time period?

Can resale points be moved to RCI?

Can resale points be rented out through Wyndham?

Can resale points be used for maint fees and at what rate?

Thanks to everyone for your hard work. I appreciate your efforts! At one time I spent a lot of time on this but life moves on doesn't it


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## Eric B (Aug 14, 2021)

happyhopian said:


> More importantly they have finally reduced the value of the resale points to zero which I think makes the value prop on the purchase even harder to accept when making new sales.



Several folks have posted that they believe there is continued value in resale points, particularly if they are at a low MF resort.  It's never really been market value, of course, and does not compare with the costs for developer points.  I am definitely keeping my resale points and am considering adding a few in order to get another resale housekeeping credit and optimize my account since they've kind of stranded the resale points with regard to HKs and RTs.  You are definitely right about disincentivizing buying developer points - if I were to add any more developer points, it would not address the issue of limited resale HKs due to some resale EOYs I own, I can only solve that by buying a small resale contract.  If they realize that and come up with some package way to buy developer and requalify my resale points, which is possible in some other systems (e.g., Vistana and DRI), that might tempt me, but otherwise I won't be interested.  Hope you're reading this, Wyndham - there must be a fair percentage of the 4,000 hybrid owners in a similar position.



happyhopian said:


> Can resale points be moved forward and under what time period?



They can, per the original email and the important information provided on the website.  They will allow you to PDF your resale points through the end of December 2021.  After that it's as usual (first 3 months of your use year, whatever that is).



happyhopian said:


> Can resale points be moved to RCI?
> 
> Can resale points be rented out through Wyndham?
> 
> Can resale points be used for maint fees and at what rate?



They can be used in RCI; not sure about the rental process, but I believe all it requires is making a reservation and depositing it with Extra Holidays; they can be converted to MFs through the end of December as well, though I don't know the rate or what the quantity limitation is.


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## OutSkiing (Aug 14, 2021)

Regarding the allocation of developer vs resale points on existing reservations Wyndham was pretty good to us for 2021. For all our 2021 upcoming reservations they come through as 'resale' although when I look in transaction history some are split between developer and resale.  But that used up all our Resale points for 2021 and left us with a slew of Developer points. I presume when we deposit them into next year they will still be developer points which have maximum value. And assuming they still honor our upgrade requests those reservations are as solid as ever.

Then for reservations beginning in 2022 a lot were taken from the Developer bucket because some were clearly made using ARP from a specific developer CWA contract and I think others were made with VIP RARP 11 months out (though that doesn't show up on the benefits history).

I do see deposit of 4 VIP RARP and one transaction RAPR use and even one credit back of a RARP upon reservation cancelation. But the RARPs don't all show up and we're down to 0 remaining of 4.

Overall not much to complain about.


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## OutSkiing (Aug 14, 2021)

55plus said:


> Same here. My 900K+ resale all show up as developer points in my VIPP account going forward according to the website. I don't know how this could happen being that resale points are coded differently than developer. This is a dream come true for a mega renters. I assume it'll correct itself once they are done and the smoke settles.


Do you mean the actual points that show up on the Points Summary and Benefits Summary pages? What resorts are those contracts for?


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## 55plus (Aug 14, 2021)

OutSkiing said:


> Do you mean the actual points that show up on the Points Summary and Benefits Summary pages? What resorts are those contracts for?


Old Town Alexandria, Glacier Canyon, Waikiki Beach Walk.


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## OutSkiing (Aug 14, 2021)

55plus said:


> Old Town Alexandria, Glacier Canyon, Waikiki Beach Walk.


Wow. I’ve heard that some of the early converted affilliate resorts counted like developer points if purchased in the early days but yours seem like core Wyndham resorts. Looks like a happy mistake.


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## 55plus (Aug 14, 2021)

OutSkiing said:


> Wow. I’ve heard that some of the early converted affilliate resorts counted like developer points if purchased in the early days but yours seem like core Wyndham resorts. Looks like a happy mistake.


If my deeds don't correct themselves in a week or so I'll inform Wyndham of the mistake. It would be wrong of me, basically fraud, not to inform them of their error.


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## troy12n (Aug 14, 2021)

dgalati said:


> Did you use points that were returned or is it a credit voucher for you or your wife only?



In my case they were tickets bought with cash (credit card) in 12/2019 for a trip in 4/2020. Cancelled approximately 3/20/20. They were both turned into future flight credits. Not frequent flier points. These credits have an expiration date. Which has been pushed off a couple times, and very may well be again.

The frustrating part is, I made the reservations for both of us, on my account, paid with one of my CC's, and when they issued credits, they issued them to each of us separately, not all back to me. So now if I want to use them, I have to book separately. Both airlines did this.


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## troy12n (Aug 14, 2021)

55plus said:


> If my deeds don't correct themselves in a week or so I'll inform Wyndham of the mistake. It would be wrong of me, basically fraud, not to inform them of their error.



I'm not a lawyer, but I believe fraud requires a level of intent. You could be blissfully unaware of the error, in fact your points are working like they always have been... how many points are we talking about here?


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## 55plus (Aug 15, 2021)

A little over 900K points that are resale, but labeled developer included in with my VIPP on the website.


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## paxsarah (Aug 15, 2021)

@HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:


> I called owner care and have an update. This is due to the fact that I have a 84,000 developer contract and a 126,000 resale contract. They will no longer combine those, even for housekeeping! Therefore I will only receive 1 per contract now! I’m very upset by how they are handling this! You technically give someone something by showing their allowance for this year and the next 2 years, then take it away without warning! I explained that if I was aware of that I would have put more thought into the 2 reservations I’ve already made for next year! I made those with the expectation to have one more free housekeeping credit that was now taken away! Here’s 3 free…Nope here’s a $159 fee instead!



So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?


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## VacayKat (Aug 15, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> @HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:
> 
> 
> So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?


This will be a case of wyndham saying their hands are tied, the system won’t allow it. And truth be told- this is why the two types of points should never have been combined into one account by Wyndham if they cared about resale points getting perks they do not deserve. And I’m sure others will say - GOOD! That person was getting something they didn’t deserve and has been freeloading. I see it as a way Wyndham has found to make more money.


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## 55plus (Aug 15, 2021)

What does the directory state concerning this matter?


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## paxsarah (Aug 15, 2021)

55plus said:


> What does the directory state concerning this matter?


Technically nothing, because the new housekeeping structure was implemented after the latest directory. The website, however, simply says:


> Housekeeping credits are awarded annually or biennially with your points at the start of your Use Year. Like your points, they expire at the end of your Use Year. One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own.


It makes no distinction between developer and resale points.


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## OutSkiing (Aug 15, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits.


I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 15, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> @HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:
> 
> 
> So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?



If we look at this pragmatically, what we are seeing, for all accounts regardless of VIP status, is that the HK/RT buckets are calculated separately now for retail and resale points. Undoubtedly this will negatively impact smaller non-VIP hybrid accounts more than larger VIP hybrid accounts - as is the case for this particular owner. But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here. At most we can communicate the concern - but our enhancement would essentially be - please return to the old way of calculating the HK/RT by combining the points buckets - and I don’t think that’s going to happen. 


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 15, 2021)

OutSkiing said:


> I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.



It’s less than 1% for VIP owners - it’s roughly 5% for the entirety of resale owners. 


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## OutSkiing (Aug 15, 2021)

Guys, I don't think there is a Wyndham script making big decisions about whether an existing reservation is Resale or Developer at all. I think the decision was made months ago by the Wyndham gremlins when we first make a reservation.  For reservations made within the 10 month window, Transaction History has always been split in a peculiar way to the human eye. I believe the algorithm uses points from contracts expiring soonest, then if more points are needed for the reservation it goes to the next contract and so on. Since mine all expire in December, it must have used some other criteria to decide what order to burn the points in. We could never see which contracts the points came from, and still cannot see that today. But the 'CRP Migration' script has gone through and labeled whether they were Resale or Developer.

We just happened to cancel a 162,000 point Austin reservation because there is risk of cancelation due to water damage anyway (we're staying longer in San Antonio instead). The reservation was labeled 'resale' but after canceling it put the points back as 115,000 developer and 47,000 resale. I see that is exactly the way the Transaction History shows they were used back when we made the reservation. Still can't tell which developer and resale contracts they came from but as @HitchHiker71 said there is a little more transparency as to what the gremlins are doing.


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## OutSkiing (Aug 15, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here.


I was wondering if these steps could work:
1) combine points from resale + developer
2) apply non-VIP HK and RT credits
3) for developer points only, apply additional VIP credits


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## paxsarah (Aug 15, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> If we look at this pragmatically, what we are seeing, for all accounts regardless of VIP status, is that the HK/RT buckets are calculated separately now for retail and resale points. Undoubtedly this will negatively impact smaller non-VIP hybrid accounts more than larger VIP hybrid accounts - as is the case for this particular owner. But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here. At most we can communicate the concern - but our enhancement would essentially be - please return to the old way of calculating the HK/RT by combining the points buckets - and I don’t think that’s going to happen.


So Wyndham planned for this to happen, but didn't notify this subset of owners that there was going to be a potentially costly change to their accounts. VIPs were notified in advance and offered complimentary points next use year as compensation, but retail/resale non-VIPs were not notified and not offered any compensation?

Also, how does this comport with the language regarding housekeeping? "Housekeeping credits are awarded annually or biennially with your points at the start of your Use Year. Like your points, they expire at the end of your Use Year. One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own." When will they be changing the last sentence to reflect this new reality?

All questions for Wyndham.


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## paxsarah (Aug 15, 2021)

OutSkiing said:


> I was wondering if these steps could work:
> 1) combine points from resale + developer
> 2) apply non-VIP HK and RT credits
> 3) for developer points only, apply additional VIP credits


This wouldn't provide the correct amount for VIP owners. For VIP owners, each bucket is calculated separately and they have two completely separate pools of HK credits, one for developer and one for resale. They can't cross over. It does make sense to calculate them completely separately for VIPs.

For non-VIPs, there is already different logic in how their account is displayed. Further upthread, a resale/retail non-VIP owner shared that he does not have the drop-down to choose between booking with resale or developer points. So there's already logic hiding that capability (a capability that only resale/retail VIPs need). So I don't know why there can't be logic to also calculate the housekeeping and reservation transactions properly for non-VIPs, which is simply to add together all points and then calculate the HK and RT based on the total.

They will need to rewrite the website and directory to account for this change, if it is an intentional change. I'm one of the first to say that Wyndham can make changes at any time, but they do need to be documented and it does seem strange that this particular item has been completely unmentioned by them up to this point.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 15, 2021)

OutSkiing said:


> I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.


With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today.  So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.


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## VacayKat (Aug 15, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today.  So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.


Oh, you know now they will start rounding down for GC too - can’t say things like that out loud, the evil Wyndham gremlins trolling the boards will get crazier ideas than ever!!!!!!


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## OutSkiing (Aug 15, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today.  So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.


Thats a great idea. Actually rounding to the nearest whole number would work without giving away the farm in this example .. 126000 / 70000 = 1.8 which is above 1.5 so rounds up to 2. 84000 / 70000 = 1.2 which is below 1.5 so rounds down to 1. And 2 + 1 still equals 3.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 15, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today. So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.



That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience. 


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## VacayKat (Aug 15, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.


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## paxsarah (Aug 15, 2021)

Or it’s also possible that if they’re capable of rounding up instead of down, they’re also capable of simply adding resale and retail together for non-VIPs and using that number  to calculate housekeeping and RTs. Which would have the added effect of producing the expected value 100% of the time.


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## 55plus (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.


That would mainly benefit mega renters, which would hurt the majority of owners of the restrictions we're eased.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



An alternative enhancement request that I believe would be fairer to both hybrid VIP and non-VIP accounts would be to include developer points borrowed to resale transactions in the determination of resale HKs/RTs while removing them from the determination of developer HKs/RTs.  It would be a bit more complicated to implement because it would result in changes to the allocations during the year and might be more appropriate to implement as a policy-level allowance for Owner Care to deal with on the relatively few affected accounts.  The way things are implemented without making that allowance, developer points are essentially stripped of the HKs/RTs that their program fees pay for when combined with resale points.  They might figure that out when they try to right out what the program guidelines are in plain English, but really should have thought of it before implementing.  (I know, I know, that would benefit the megarenter owners, blah, blah, blah, ... but it's really the only fair way to set things up to give all owners the HKs/RTs they have paid for.)


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## markb53 (Aug 16, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> For non-VIPs, there is already different logic in how their account is displayed. Further upthread, a resale/retail non-VIP owner shared that he does not have the drop-down to choose between booking with resale or developer points. So there's already logic hiding that capability (a capability that only resale/retail VIPs need). So I don't know why there can't be logic to also calculate the housekeeping and reservation transactions properly for non-VIPs, which is simply to add together all points and then calculate the HK and RT based on the total.
> 
> They will need to rewrite the website and directory to account for this change, if it is an intentional change. I'm one of the first to say that Wyndham can make changes at any time, but they do need to be documented and it does seem strange that this particular item has been completely unmentioned by them up to this point.



I’m the guy from unthread. In my case the numbers add up the same whether they get added up with the contracts combined or separated. My resale contract is 210k EOY which gets exactly 3 HK. If I had 200K EOY I would have gotten 2 for that contract. Which would have brought my total down to 4HK for every even year instead of 5. I have 182K developer and 210 EOY-E resale. So 2 every Odd year and 5 every even year.
The interesting thing is in the email I received announcing the change, there is no mention at all about breaking up my contracts into separate buckets. It only mentions the new benefit summery and how it will make it easier to see how my points are being used. Seems like if they were going to make a change that reduced an owners ability to travel they should have mentions that in the email also. I thought this whole change was about doing something about the mega-renters. I guess that is not the only thing this is about. Even more good reason not to buy any points direct from Wyndham, if you don’t plan to be VIP down the road.


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## markb53 (Aug 16, 2021)

For VIP owner you are currently seeing in your account that the HKs are assigned separately, right. I mean if you are VIPG with 126K resale, You will see what ever HK you get for the VIPG account and then you will see the resale account with 1 HK for the 126K resale. I’m I correct on that.
As a non-VIP I don’t see that. My HKs just show as combined. I think if Wyndham wanted to do it this way, they should have broken up all Hybrid accounts not just VIPs and displayed them separated on your account page. With the way they did you you have no idea what happened and you have to call owner care to find out


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.



Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?


This was in response to the suggestion that for non-VIP hybrid accounts that resale HKs be rounded up.


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

Honestly, if I had to guess at the source of this problem it's that someone thought it would be easiest to code HKs the same for hybrid VIPs and non-VIPs, and nobody checked or thought of the possibility that it would reduce the number of HKs and/or RTs for some of the non-VIP hybrid accounts because of rounding. That's why Wyndham didn't mention this part of the change in any of its communications so far, that's why the non-VIP hybrid accounts don't allow choosing between resale and developer points for reservations. It was a mistake. But it does need to be fixed. And I'm not sure why we need to make sure that the fix needs to also work for VIP hybrid accounts because it never really will. Leave them alone, fix the non-VIPs.


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## markb53 (Aug 16, 2021)

For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

55plus said:


> That would mainly benefit mega renters, which would hurt the majority of owners of the restrictions we're eased.


Well i guess then no one should benefit. 

If that is really the approach you endorse - please explain to folks like me who would be similarly affected why you believe my resale points should not be treated in the same way? Why do you believe I should be punished while someone else who did not give wyndham bags and bags of cash should profit?

I’m really tired of the rhetoric that all VIP owners should be screwed over to keep megarenters from doing <insert you name it, it’s all been placed at their feet here>. Do you not have any compassion for the people that are NOT these renters who are being harmed?


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

markb53 said:


> For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.


Well here’s the kicker, I supposedly have unlimited HK, but they added a number (which reflects what i would get if it was mot unlimited) with my points. It is all combined. But broken out in the summary at the top. Actually, looked again - those transactions are no longer in my history. No points added are, so can not confirm or deny they are the same


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am saying if they round up for nonVIP then they need to round up for VIP. The proposed solution would make them treated unequivalently.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> I am saying if they round up for nonVIP then they need to round up for VIP. The proposed solution would make them treated unequivalently.



There's an awful lot to be said in favor of Wyndham deciding what the policy for HKs, RTs, GCs, etc., should be for everyone that pays for them in their program fees, then implementing that policy across the board uniformly with the VIP benefits added on top of that.  Doing it any other way wouldn't be equitable and would be a great argument against buying anything more to achieve VIP status - as it is the implementation disadvantages hybrid VIP owners for being hybrid owners and it might not be in Wyndham's self-interest to also disadvantage them on the basis of being VIPs as well.


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

Eric B said:


> There's an awful lot to be said in favor of Wyndham deciding what the policy for HKs, RTs, GCs, etc., should be for everyone that pays for them in their program fees, then implementing that policy across the board uniformly with the VIP benefits added on top of that.  Doing it any other way wouldn't be equitable and would be a great argument against buying anything more to achieve VIP status - as it is the implementation disadvantages hybrid VIP owners for being hybrid owners and it might not be in Wyndham's self-interest to also disadvantage them on the basis of being VIPs as well.


Also there is the simple fact that resale points used by a VIP have NONE of their VIP perks attached, so if it harms a smaller owner, it likely does the same harm to a VIP, just seems less offensive because when folks are bigger it appears they have more and charging them the $159 HK fee is more palatable.

Also in the case cited - if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation do the developer points get stripped of their developer rights in the same way VIP do? If so, then the HK situation might be worse than first appears. @HitchHiker71 probably worth adding this to the question list.


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Also in the case cited - if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation do the developer points get stripped of their developer rights in the same way VIP do? If so, then the HK situation might be worse than first appears. @HitchHiker71 probably worth adding this to the question list.


There are no developer rights for regular reservations online for Club Wyndham resorts. The difference between developer and resale for non-VIPs is Club Pass (call only), Plus Partners (call only), and RCI nightly stays and Points inventory (handled on the RCI side - I presume turned on at the account level, because I don't think RCI knows what points are coming over in deposits). [EDIT: and Wyndham Rewards conversion - call.] There is nothing in a regular booking that makes a difference whether it is developer or resale - which is exactly why "if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation" isn't even a question - they do, because they are otherwise not separated in any way in a non-VIP account. They just have total points to book with. There's no reason to separate them. The problem is, underneath the HK (and presumably the RT) are being calculated separately on each bucket and added together, which can lead to an owner being shorted an HK depending on the size of each of their contracts. Although on the surface, the HK appear as a single total for the account, as do the points.


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

A


paxsarah said:


> There are no developer rights for regular reservations online for Club Wyndham resorts. The difference between developer and resale for non-VIPs is Club Pass (call only), Plus Partners (call only), and RCI nightly stays and Points inventory (handled on the RCI side - I presume turned on at the account level, because I don't think RCI knows what points are coming over in deposits). There is nothing in a regular booking that makes a difference whether it is developer or resale - which is exactly why "if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation" isn't even a question - they do, because they are otherwise not separated in any way in a non-VIP account. They just have total points to book with. There's no reason to separate them. The problem is, underneath the HK (and presumably the RT) are being calculated separately on each bucket and added together, which can lead to an owner being shorted an HK depending on the size of each of their contracts. Although on the surface, the HK appear as a single total for the account, as do the points.


As in, if developer and resale are being combined, resale HK apply NOT developer. Unless you’re saying nonVIP are already being treated differently and they still have one big bucket and aren’t being forced to choose where their points come from for different reservations. If so, that’s special.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

markb53 said:


> For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.



The developer and resale buckets are separated out now - and benefits are calculated based upon the separate buckets by design.  For VIP hybrid owners, you'll see both buckets in the Benefits Summary area as follows:





On the Points Summary page, we currently see what our VIP benefit entitlements, which in my case as a grandfathered VIPG I see Unlimited:





For non-VIP hybrid owners - you won't see the separate buckets in your Benefits Summary area since your booking privileges are the same whether using developer or resale points (same when making reservations).  Only VIP owners would see the separate buckets since our reservation privileges are different when using developer points (based upon the VIP tier).  

The calculation is undoubtedly the same for _all _accounts.  The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO.  That's obviously what Wyndham is doing - but in the case of non-VIP hybrid owners it appears this wasn't communicated.  For example, using my own VIP hybrid account as an example, my total annual points is 1,406,500 points.  So using the total amount of points (without VIP unlimited HK benefits), I'd be entitled to a total of 20 HK credits.  Under the new system, my resale bucket shows as 9, and my developer bucket shows as 10.  So I get one less, because it's calculating based upon the separate buckets.  In my case, I don't really care that much because I have unlimited HK credits with my developer points, where I'm likely to use my points within the 60 day discount window and burn up more HK credits as a result.  

We have already escalated this issue via Richelle to Wyndham as of this morning - no response back yet - but I suspect the answer we get back will be something similar to what I've outlined above - that the HKs are being calculated within each bucket separately - whether those buckets can be seen by the account owner or not.  We'll keep an eye on this item moving forward and provide updates when appropriate.  In the interim - please ensure you call into the dedicated support line to express your grievance - and use the website feedback mechanism to report the same issue.  The more negative feedback Wyndham receives - the more likely they are to respond to the reported problem.


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> A
> 
> As in, if developer and resale are being combined, resale HK apply NOT developer.


In a non-VIP combined account, there are no resale or developer HK available for the owner when booking, because there are no resale or developer points available to the owner when booking. Unless Wyndham puts a policy change in writing like it did for VIPs, this is how HK should be calculated for non-VIP combined owners: "One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own." Period. There is no reason to calculate them separately because there is no reason (nor ability) to use them separately.


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO.


Why though, if it produces the wrong number for certain owners? If they standardized it and it produces the wrong result, then they did it wrong.

EDIT: For instance, if it's possible to display on the benefits summary the calculated number of housekeeping credits on your VIP account, but on the overall dashboard still correctly show (and implement) unlimited HK, then it's certainly possible to correctly show and implement the correct number of HK on the dashboard for a non-VIP.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Why though, if it produces the wrong number for certain owners? If they standardized it and it produces the wrong result, then they did it wrong.



It's not wrong - it's just different.  I suspect this is a change that they simply neglected to announce - but that's just speculation on my part - as it's obvious to me that the benefits are now being calculated separately by retail/resale buckets - and no longer based upon the collective points totals in the account.  



> EDIT: For instance, if it's possible to display on the benefits summary the calculated number of housekeeping credits on your VIP account, but on the overall dashboard still correctly show (and implement) unlimited HK, then it's certainly possible to correctly show and implement the correct number of HK on the dashboard for a non-VIP.



Per my previous post - my HKs are down net 1 HK using the same math as what was reported from the FB poster.  I see the same thing in other words - I just don't care because my developer bucket enjoys grandfathered unlimited HK credits.  If Wyndham were to use two different calculations - one for VIPs and another for non-VIPs - that would be discriminatory.  Also, for anyone who upgrades to VIP now - there's no such thing as unlimited HK for developer points any longer.  So if Wyndham were to make a change to "round up" for non-VIP owners - and not use the exact same calculation method for a VIP owner - that would likely result in claims that the same rules do not apply to the entire ownership base.  The same rules have to apply to _all _accounts - with VIPs receiving any added HK VIP benefits on top of their base entitlements. As Ron recently said on another thread - it is Wyndham's job to ensure a level playing field for all owners - that all owners are playing by the same rules (paraphrasing).

The Benefits Summary and the buckets we see - these are likely exposing the actual back office data for our accounts.  That's why the Benefits Summary, at present, shows our actual HK entitlements as opposed to merely saying "unlimited" like the Points Summary currently says.  These buckets are what "matters" when making transactions from our accounts, as these are the benefits we're actually entitled to.  Personally I hope they do _not _change the Benefits Summary to simply show "unlimited" as I would actually like to continue to see negative bucket values to help me better understand how much benefit I'm actually getting from my VIP ownership - but that's me. 

All that said, it will be interesting to see what reaction we receive from Wyndham on this issue.  I suspect they are going to come back and say "that's the way it works now" since they are clearly calculating everything separately via the buckets now using a DeveloperHK + ResaleHK = TotalHK approach for HK credits, as opposed to the old TotalAccountPoints / 70k = TotalHK approach.  If that is the response we get - we'll then recommend a "round up" threshold approach in the name of preserving the customer experience - and then see what the response is to that requested enhancement.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

markb53 said:


> For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.



I am a hybrid VIP owner with 127K resale in the even years.  My HKs are are split between developer and resale, with the appropriate amount for my VIPG account listed as though it weren't unlimited HKs in the benefits summary page, unlimited VIP HKs in the points summary page, and 1 resale HK in the even years in the benefits summary and points summary pages.  I have more resale points in the odd years and the resale HKs show properly there.



HitchHiker71 said:


> .....
> 
> The calculation is undoubtedly the same for _all _accounts.  The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO.  That's obviously what Wyndham is doing - but in the case of non-VIP hybrid owners it appears this wasn't communicated.  For example, using my own VIP hybrid account as an example, my total annual points is 1,406,500 points.  So using the total amount of points (without VIP unlimited HK benefits), I'd be entitled to a total of 20 HK credits.  Under the new system, my resale bucket shows as 9, and my developer bucket shows as 10.  So I get one less, because it's calculating based upon the separate buckets.  In my case, I don't really care that much because I have unlimited HK credits with my developer points, where I'm likely to use my points within the 60 day discount window and burn up more HK credits as a result.
> 
> .....



It's not much of a difference, but more of a nuisance for me because of the single HK in the even years.  This is because I have the ability to PDF those points to either an even or odd year.  The nuisance part is that I now have a disincentive to PDF resale points into the even years due to the single HK.  It also fundamentally annoys me that if I've used that resale HK on a stay that costs 70K resale points and have the opportunity to borrow some VIP points from my own account to use with the remaining 57K resale points, even if I borrow 13K VIP points or more, despite having paid the program fees on another 70K points and therefore should have another HK to use, I will have to pay an extra fee to buy one.  If, on the other hand, they were to credit the 13+K VIP points towards generating another resale HK (and concomitantly removing credit for those points from generating VIP HKs for folks not having unlimited HKs), I would have access to another HK based on what I've paid in program fees.  It's really a mischaracterization to call them free HKs, after all - we are paying for them.  The same thought process would apply to RTs.

IMHO, the proper implementation for a hybrid VIP owner with unlimited HKs and RTs would have been to grant the usage of paid-for HKs and RTs based on the number of points program fees are being paid for in the account, and have the VIP program cover extra ones.  That would probably be viewed as more generous than it should have been, though, so I believe crediting borrowed VIP points towards resale HKs/RTs would be another possibility that would be more equitable since the owner is paying for them already.


----------



## scootr5 (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> this enhancement was added last week during the same sprint release that added the Benefits Summary component.



Any idea why some of us still can't see anything on the "Benefits Summary" tab?


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> Any idea why some of us still can't see anything on the "Benefits Summary" tab?



I would call into the dedicated support line and report this issue.  This is likely an account specific issue of some kind, and therefore isn't really something I can report back as I would need account specific information to do so - along with a process that can be used to reproduce the issue - and/or a way of identifying the small subset of impacted accounts - and I have neither at this time.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

Finally canceled my remaining reservations for this calendar year and tried to PDF the points.  The system would have let me PDF the developer points, but was still not working when I tried to PDF either the resale points alone or all the points, which should have been an option.  Rather than keep pounding the wall with my head, I called in to the dedicated help line and they did it for me.  Apparently the system wasn't working for them properly, either - they had to manually adjust my account to remove both the developer and resale points from the current year and add them to the future year I asked for.  They also comped the PDF due to the inconvenience, which was an unexpected plus.

The benefits summary page never really showed the proper allocation of points to the transactions.  The top line numbers added up to what I expected after the cancellations, though.


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Finally canceled my remaining reservations for this calendar year and tried to PDF the points.  The system would have let me PDF the developer points, but was still not working when I tried to PDF either the resale points alone or all the points, which should have been an option.  Rather than keep pounding the wall with my head, I called in to the dedicated help line and they did it for me.  Apparently the system wasn't working for them properly, either - they had to manually adjust my account to remove both the developer and resale points from the current year and add them to the future year I asked for.  They also comped the PDF due to the inconvenience, which was an unexpected plus.
> 
> The benefits summary page never really showed the proper allocation of points to the transactions.  The top line numbers added up to what I expected after the cancellations, though.


I would keep an eye on it - good possibility when they get it working properly manual overrides could be affected too. Hoping they aren’t.


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## r4rab (Aug 16, 2021)

Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> The same rules have to apply to _all _accounts - with VIPs receiving any added HK VIP benefits on top of their base entitlements.


The problem here is that some hybrid non-VIPs are now receiving less than their base entitlements. Until Wyndham changes the policy in writing, the entitlement is 1 HK per 70,000 points. They are now not receiving it.



HitchHiker71 said:


> and then see what the response is to that _requested enhancement_.


_Rectifying a regression_.



HitchHiker71 said:


> This is likely an account specific issue of some kind


Weirdly coincidental that it's also happening to me, and we're both resale-only owners. But I'll take it on myself.


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> The same rules have to apply to _all _accounts


The rules are written down in plain English. The programming has to support those rules, not the other way around. The new rules as written for VIPs who own resale points are written for VIPs, not non-VIPs. The only written rule for non-VIPs hasn't changed. So they either need to rewrite the rules if that's what they intended to do, or fix the programming to support the rules.


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## troy12n (Aug 16, 2021)

Mine is doing something funky now... it shows "current use year as 10/2018-9/2019 and 0 points on the "Benefits Summary" page.

When I use the drop down to select "future use year", and show my current UY of 10/2020-9/2021, it shows all points available.

On the "points summary" page, it looks correct. 

Anyone else seeing that?


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?


I do not see RARP - my outrigger is still broken too. And they miscoded my accounts - so unlike a lucky resale owner here, I have fewer VIP points than I should have.
I think there are a lot of accounts that were never fully implemented properly and all the ‘updates’ are showing the problems now.


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## troy12n (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?



My account doesn't show RARP at all and i have the same use year as you


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## Manzana (Aug 16, 2021)

One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August.  Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total.   Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

Manzana said:


> One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August.  Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total.   Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions


They are only free through the end of August if you've already run out and are in the pay-as-you-go range. That is, if you had free reservation transactions remaining in your account in August, there's no benefit in using them in August. The current special is not that reservations don't require the use of a transaction - it's that if you were already out of free reservation transactions then any you book in August that you would have had to pay for are free. If you get to September 1st with 0 remaining, you'll be paying for any you need for the rest of the year. If you have unlimited for your VIP points for gold and above, unlimited is unlimited.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

Manzana said:


> One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August.  Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total.   Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions



What they actually had for the offer in the email I got was that there would be no cost for online reservation transactions through the end of August.  There wasn't anything about not using up the reservation transactions in your account during that period, so I believe you are correct that you might not have to pay for them now, but might wind up with none available starting September 1.



paxsarah said:


> They are only free through the end of August if you've already run out and are in the pay-as-you-go range. That is, if you had *free reservation transactions* remaining in your account in August, there's no benefit in using them in August. The current special is not that reservations don't require the use of a transaction - it's that if you were already out of free reservation transactions then any you book in August that you would have had to pay for are free. If you get to September 1st with 0 remaining, you'll be paying for any you need for the rest of the year. If you have unlimited for your VIP points for gold and above, unlimited is unlimited.



There really isn't any such thing as free reservation transactions in owners' accounts.  We all pay for the reservation transactions we are allocated in our accounts as a part of our program fees or as part of the original purchase price that qualified us for VIP benefits.  Thinking of them as being free makes it much easier for them to just gloss over the negative potential consequences of separating the developer and resale points in the same accounts and should be avoided.


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## r4rab (Aug 16, 2021)

troy12n said:


> My account doesn't show RARP at all and i have the same use year as you



@HitchHiker71 I think there may be a bug on non-calendar use years wrt VIP RARP. My UY is Oct-Sep and 100% retail. There is no line for VIP RARP even though I am temp VIPP, permanent VIPG (grandfathered).


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## paxsarah (Aug 16, 2021)

Eric B said:


> There really isn't any such thing as free reservation transactions in owners' accounts. We all pay for the reservation transactions we are allocated in our accounts as a part of our program fees or as part of the original purchase price that qualified us for VIP benefits. Thinking of them as being free makes it much easier for them to just gloss over the negative potential consequences of separating the developer and resale points in the same accounts and should be avoided.


Technically true (and I frequently say the same about the "free" RCI account), but sometimes it's easier to use "free" then write a paragraph.  Maybe next time I'll say "allotted" (though I still think most people would understand better if I said "free").


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## troy12n (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> @HitchHiker71 I think there may be a bug on non-calendar use years wrt VIP RARP. My UY is Oct-Sep and 100% retail. There is no line for VIP RARP even though I am temp VIPP, permanent VIPG (grandfathered).



I will be honest with you, I don't know if this is something that ever displayed before. My understanding is we have 2 RARP's for VIP use every UY which allows us to book at 11 months, i've never leveraged it, and don't think i've ever actually seen it listed anywhere online


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## markb53 (Aug 16, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I am a hybrid VIP owner with 127K resale in the even years.  My HKs are are split between developer and resale, with the appropriate amount for my VIPG account listed as though it weren't unlimited HKs in the benefits summary page, unlimited VIP HKs in the points summary page, and 1 resale HK in the even years in the benefits summary and points summary pages.  I have more resale points in the odd years and the resale HKs show properly there.


If Wyndham wants to make Hybrid VIP owner and non-VIP owners the same then they should make them the same and break up the accounts for non-VIP Hybrid owners into separate Developer and Resale buckets just like the VIP Hybrid owner. And show the House Keeping in 2 entries for developer and resale. That way it is completely clear what is going on. Otherwise it will appear to some non-VIP Hybrid owners, that they lost a HK for no apparent reason. And by the time they called Owner Care about it they would probably be pretty upset. I think they could avoid much of the upset by being honest instead of underhanded. I think I agree with @paxsarah when she said that Wyndham didn’t think of it at all. So they didn’t advise non VIP owners that the changes might cause some of them to lose HKs. They are trying to keep VIP Hybrid owners happy by offering them some complimentary points due to some potential losses, right. So is seems they do care about the feelings of the VIP Hybrid owners. But not the non-VIP Hybrid owners?


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## r4rab (Aug 16, 2021)

troy12n said:


> I will be honest with you, I don't know if this is something that ever displayed before. My understanding is we have 2 RARP's for VIP use every UY which allows us to book at 11 months, i've never leveraged it, and don't think i've ever actually seen it listed anywhere online



It was never displayed anywhere before but it is something that others are seeing on the new Benefits Summary page. I have not used my RARPs before either, partly because you needed to call in to use them. But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online. I'm also starting to think I should start using these RARP transactions.


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## Eric B (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online.



They do work online - I booked several for next year without calling in.  Not sure if you had to call in before as I hadn't tried earlier.

Edited to add: If you wind up canceling a reservation made with RARP, you do get the RARP back and the allowance on the benefits summary page changes to reflect that.


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## scootr5 (Aug 16, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I would call into the dedicated support line and report this issue.  This is likely an account specific issue of some kind, and therefore isn't really something I can report back as I would need account specific information to do so - along with a process that can be used to reproduce the issue - and/or a way of identifying the small subset of impacted accounts - and I have neither at this time.



Understood. Susan in OC has opened a ticket.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 16, 2021)

I did my own audit today of reservations after requesting an audit last Friday.  I found 3 cases where the reservation shows resale while the underlying transactions show developer.  I called back to the dedicated line and shared my findings.  The OC took screen shots where she was seeing the exact things I saw.  I’m guessing that I’m not the only Hybrid account with the Resale/Developer inconsistency.  If I count those 3 reservations as Developer, my resale account balance looks correct.


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## dgalati (Aug 16, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> I did my own audit today of reservations after requesting an audit last Friday.  I found 3 cases where the reservation shows resale while the underlying transactions show developer.  I called back to the dedicated line and shared my findings.  The OC took screen shots where she was seeing the exact things I saw.  I’m guessing that I’m not the only Hybrid account with the Resale/Developer inconsistency.  If I count those 3 reservations as Developer, my resale account balance looks correct.


I wonder how many owners don't catch this discrepancy to Wyndhams favor? I guess if only 50% catch it the other 50% can say shame on themselves for not being more watchful and diligent to the Wyndham math.


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## 55plus (Aug 16, 2021)

All my resale still show up as developer. I haven't called yet. I'll give them until Friday if it doesn't change.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

troy12n said:


> Mine is doing something funky now... it shows "current use year as 10/2018-9/2019 and 0 points on the "Benefits Summary" page.
> 
> When I use the drop down to select "future use year", and show my current UY of 10/2020-9/2021, it shows all points available.
> 
> ...



Mine did that from the outset. Hasn’t changed since the changes were rolled out for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> The rules are written down in plain English. The programming has to support those rules, not the other way around. The new rules as written for VIPs who own resale points are written for VIPs, not non-VIPs. The only written rule for non-VIPs hasn't changed. So they either need to rewrite the rules if that's what they intended to do, or fix the programming to support the rules.



Sorry poor choice of words. I meant the same logic must apply to all accounts - the rules as you said are clearly defined in the member directory. No word back yet on the reported issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> I do not see RARP - my outrigger is still broken too. And they miscoded my accounts - so unlike a lucky resale owner here, I have fewer VIP points than I should have.
> I think there are a lot of accounts that were never fully implemented properly and all the ‘updates’ are showing the problems now.



Agreed - the additional transparency is showing more data integrity issues without a doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> It was never displayed anywhere before but it is something that others are seeing on the new Benefits Summary page. I have not used my RARPs before either, partly because you needed to call in to use them. But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online. I'm also starting to think I should start using these RARP transactions.



You could use RARP online before - I did both last year and this year - you just cannot easily tell that you’re using RARP unless you know what you’re looking for specifically. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 16, 2021)

scootr5 said:


> Understood. Susan in OC has opened a ticket.



If she gave you a trouble ticket number - feel free to PM me the ticket number and I can try to get someone to look at it sooner rather than later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OutSkiing (Aug 16, 2021)

r4rab said:


> It was never displayed anywhere before but it is something that others are seeing on the new Benefits Summary page. I have not used my RARPs before either, partly because you needed to call in to use them. But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online. I'm also starting to think I should start using these RARP transactions.


As Eric and Hitchiker have said you could use RARP online before but you could not see how many were left.  In fact you could accidentally use them by randomly making a reservation 11 months out .. inventory shows up as available and it doesnt tell you you are about to use it.

My RARP shows in Benefits Summary only in the1/2021 - 12/2021 use year. Doesn’t tell me I have 4 more for 2022 yet.  And transaction history is incomplete in showing me where I used up all 4 of them (some uses and one credit do show up).

Weirdly, a RARP used this year for a reservation for 2022 shows up in the 2021 transaction history while the points used for that same reservation are of course in the 2022 trans history. So they tied the 4 RARP per year to the year the transactionis executed rather than the target year of your stay. That may be the way the rule is worded but it seems illogical and confusing to me.

its far better than the year Voyager first came out ..neither we nor owner care could use RARP at all ..service tickets were entered and pending and phone calls were made all the 11th month .. we were on pins and needles hoping our big Hawaiian extended family vaca could be booked. Finally when 10 month day arrived we were able to reserve what we needed in Standard Reservation Period afterall.


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## troy12n (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm not too worried about what is obviously some sort of display error. On the main points page, my points are accurate, and my reservations are still there.


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## VacayKat (Aug 16, 2021)

The one thing about RARP that made me nuts was how there wasn’t a list of resorts that you could use it at online, had to get out the directory to look it up.


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## scootr5 (Aug 17, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> If she gave you a trouble ticket number - feel free to PM me the ticket number and I can try to get someone to look at it sooner rather than later.



Unfortunately I didn't think to ask for the number until after I had hung up...


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 17, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> I did my own audit today of reservations after requesting an audit last Friday.  I found 3 cases where the reservation shows resale while the underlying transactions show developer.  I called back to the dedicated line and shared my findings.  The OC took screen shots where she was seeing the exact things I saw.  I’m guessing that I’m not the only Hybrid account with the Resale/Developer inconsistency.  If I count those 3 reservations as Developer, my resale account balance looks correct.



Thanks for sharing this information.  I need to do the same manual audit for my own account as I believe I've seen a few discrepancies when skimming my Tx history along this line.  I'm assuming your steps are to view the details of the reservation and compared that against the Tx history entry yes?


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 17, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Thanks for sharing this information.  I need to do the same manual audit for my own account as I believe I've seen a few discrepancies when skimming my Tx history along this line.  I'm assuming your steps are to view the details of the reservation and compared that against the Tx history entry yes?


I looked at the actual future reservations where it says developer or resale.  I put points in the appropriate column (dev is always listed first) and found the totals for resale exceeded my annual allotment.  I then went into transactions and reviewed the actual transactions.  The transactions related to some of those noted as resale were actually showing as developer.  OC saw the exact same discrepancy.  

Once I saw the issue, I re-added the resale points based on transaction detail and everything balanced.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 17, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> Once I saw the issue, I re-added the resale points based on transaction detail and everything balanced.



Does it balance correctly on your Benefits/Points summary as well?  Or the reported balances that Wyndham is indicating were wrong?  I'm asking because I need to determine how to phrase the reported issue for our tracking sheet.


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## paxsarah (Aug 17, 2021)

"YOUR WEBSITE WILL BE TAKING A QUICK VACAY
Your website will undergo maintenance from August 17 at 10 p.m. EST - August 18 at 6 a.m. EST. Thank you for your patience as Club Wyndham continues to upgrade your online experience."


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 17, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> "YOUR WEBSITE WILL BE TAKING A QUICK VACAY
> Your website will undergo maintenance from August 17 at 10 p.m. EST - August 18 at 6 a.m. EST. Thank you for your patience as Club Wyndham continues to upgrade your online experience."



That's a good thing - they've recognized there's quite a bit of cleanup and bug fixes that need to occur and are taking steps.  Let's see what the result is on Friday morning.


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## VacayKat (Aug 17, 2021)

Lo


HitchHiker71 said:


> That's a good thing - they've recognized there's quite a bit of cleanup and bug fixes that need to occur and are taking steps.  Let's see what the result is on Friday morning.


Lol, hope we can see what the result is on Wednesday 
This is par for the course - they do an update and then do 3-4 ‘maintenance’ downtimes to fix the upgrade. It’s the Wyndham way!


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 17, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> Lo
> 
> Lol, hope we can see what the result is on Wednesday
> This is par for the course - they do an update and then do 3-4 ‘maintenance’ downtimes to fix the upgrade. It’s the Wyndham way!



Sorry - I'm all mixed up today and multi-tasking way too much.  Tonight it is.  Guess we'll see what happens tomorrow.


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## VacayKat (Aug 17, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Sorry - I'm all mixed up today and multi-tasking way too much.  Tonight it is.  Guess we'll see what happens tomorrow.


All good - I am in Hawaii so I no longer have any sense of time.

One thing I was wondering about asking - since wyndham said all decisions are final AND they took all the reservation transactions for the resale points - any changes will result in fees. Can we ask Wyndham to return some of the transactions to folks as goodwill? Or extend free transactions through Sept when we know all their changes will be permanent? I for one am not making any changes until I hear from someone they won’t be poking around on the backend any more and things are actually final (because even though they said the changes were final, they made changes to them.)


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 17, 2021)

It says I have 0 resale points left to use.  My concern was on cancels.  If I cancel a reservation, where will the points go?  They should follow the Tx history, but who knows what will happen.   I’m sitting on the 3 suspect reservations since I have no immediate need to cancel.  That said, one will be getting cancelled at some point.


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## VacayKat (Aug 17, 2021)

New bug: attempted to make a reservation with developer points. At upgrade selected ‘no preference’ and the transaction hung. Finally realized that there were no larger suites and selected better view and the transaction completed. This needs to be fixed.


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## debrinkleyusa (Aug 17, 2021)

No points refunded for a cancellation.  Today I cancelled a 200K point reservation that was categorized as "resale".  After I cancelled the reservation neither my developer or resale point balances changed.  I didn't ever get a house keeping credit back.  I called Wyndham and after waiting on hold spoke to a representative that simply saw the same thing I did.  A cancellation with no refund of the points.  He put me on hold again to speak to a supervisor.  I got my hopes up that would mean someone who could do more than just agree with me.  Nope...the supervisor said maybe there is a delay in the system and I should call back tomorrow.  Before I did the cancellation I also booked a room using developer points.  Those points were taken out of my balance immediately.  Anyone else having problems getting points refunded after doing a cancellation?


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 17, 2021)

debrinkleyusa said:


> Anyone else having problems getting points refunded after doing a cancellation?


I cancelled a reservation that was a Resale/Development combo and all points went to the correct buckets.  Have not cancelled a total resale reservation, yet.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 17, 2021)

debrinkleyusa said:


> No points refunded for a cancellation. Today I cancelled a 200K point reservation that was categorized as "resale". After I cancelled the reservation neither my developer or resale point balances changed. I didn't ever get a house keeping credit back. I called Wyndham and after waiting on hold spoke to a representative that simply saw the same thing I did. A cancellation with no refund of the points. He put me on hold again to speak to a supervisor. I got my hopes up that would mean someone who could do more than just agree with me. Nope...the supervisor said maybe there is a delay in the system and I should call back tomorrow. Before I did the cancellation I also booked a room using developer points. Those points were taken out of my balance immediately. Anyone else having problems getting points refunded after doing a cancellation?



Until you receive the confirmation email indicating the transaction has completed - the transaction actually hasn’t completed IME. I’ve occasionally seen delays between the online cancellation and the email confirmation before the points actually returned to my account. In a couple of cases it took several hours, not sure why. 


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## VacayKat (Aug 18, 2021)

I recommend everyone check their RCI accounts. Mine have been messed up and are only showing current use year wyndham points as available for all booking periods. In other words in 2022-2023 and 2023-2024 booking periods I only have the few points from 2021-2022 that I have not used as available, not the amount that is allotted for 2022-2023 that I have yet to use any of.
@HitchHiker71 can you add this to your list of questions/concerns to be addressed?


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## paxsarah (Aug 18, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> I recommend everyone check their RCI accounts. Mine have been messed up and are only showing current use year wyndham points as available for all booking periods. In other words in 2022-2023 and 2023-2024 booking periods I only have the few points from 2021-2022 that I have not used as available, not the amount that is allotted for 2022-2023 that I have yet to use any of.
> @HitchHiker71 can you add this to your list of questions/concerns to be addressed?


What’s your use year? Points are only eligible to be deposited to RCI 10 months prior to the start of the use year, so if your use year is June, you wouldn't be able to deposit 2022-23 points to RCI until September 1.


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## VacayKat (Aug 18, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> What’s your use year? Points are only eligible to be deposited to RCI 10 months prior to the start of the use year, so if your use year is June, you wouldn't be able to deposit 2022-23 points to RCI until September 1.


It always shows up as available for booking - this is NOT a deposit situation. If it is correct then it is a change.


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## paxsarah (Aug 18, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> It always shows up as available for booking - this is NOT a deposit situation. If it is correct then it is a change.


If it’s a change, then it sounds like it’s a corrective change. My RCI account displays differently because non-VIPs in RCI can’t book first (we have to deposit first). But if RCI shows the Wyndham points in Wyndham you have available for booking in RCI at the current moment, then if you have a July use year the 2022-23 Wyndham points are not yet available for booking in RCI. (Although you never answered whether you have a July use year; if you don’t, my explanation doesn’t apply.)


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## WyndhamBarter (Aug 18, 2021)

VacayKat said:


> this is NOT a deposit situation



I'm just guessing here - is it possible you are seeing a newly-implemented inability to do
"RCI Instant Search & Book" with resale Wyndham points?  As @paxsarah said, non-VIP
owners have always had to deposit in advance of booking with RCI.  So maybe the new
separation of resale&developer only allows "Instant" booking on the developer portion?

Some terms defined here:
https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/club-benefits/vip-by-wyndham


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## VacayKat (Aug 18, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> If it’s a change, then it sounds like it’s a corrective change. My RCI account displays differently because non-VIPs in RCI can’t book first (we have to deposit first). But if RCI shows the Wyndham points in Wyndham you have available for booking in RCI at the current moment, then if you have a July use year the 2022-23 Wyndham points are not yet available for booking in RCI. (Although you never answered whether you have a July use year; if you don’t, my explanation doesn’t apply.)


The way it used to show was for those years I would see the points associated with that year plus any deposits. Why show me future years all split out if they are all the same? Doesn’t make any sense. To be fair I’m not really worried about RCI because I think the fees to use are extremely high, but again - just not sure why they’d implement something so confusing without at least a video about the change.


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## paxsarah (Aug 19, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> It's not wrong - it's just different.


It’s apparently wrong, based on tonight’s webinar (which was geared towards all owners other than VIP+resale). In addition to Vanity specifying that there would be no changes to the number of housekeeping credits or reservation transactions an owner would receive, it was also on screen.



It sounds like Wyndham never intended for any changes to affect non-VIP hybrid owners.


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## Eric B (Aug 19, 2021)

So far I haven’t seen any evidence that Wyndham actually considers whether there could be unintentional consequences to the changes they make.  They otherwise have a decent product.


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## VacayKat (Aug 19, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> It’s apparently wrong, based on tonight’s webinar (which was geared towards all owners other than VIP+resale). In addition to Vanity specifying that there would be no changes to the number of housekeeping credits or reservation transactions an owner would receive, it was also on screen.
> View attachment 38926
> It sounds like Wyndham never intended for any changes to affect non-VIP hybrid owners.


That worries me because for VIP, the underlying count of points for ownership should give the base # of HK and reservation transactions and then VIP would add on top the number associated with the vip level if not unlimited for the developer points. Basically Wyndham by splitting before doing those calculations has done what they say they did not intend to do. @HitchHiker71 can you bring the error to your contacts from this perspective?


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## Ty1on (Aug 19, 2021)

FYI, cancelled a reservation to book another one, and the RT was free.  We own all resale.


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## markb53 (Aug 20, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> It’s apparently wrong, based on tonight’s webinar (which was geared towards all owners other than VIP+resale). In addition to Vanity specifying that there would be no changes to the number of housekeeping credits or reservation transactions an owner would receive, it was also on screen.
> View attachment 38926
> It sounds like Wyndham never intended for any changes to affect non-VIP hybrid owners.


That is interesting to know. If they count up my RTs with the Developer points and resale point separated then I will loose 1 RT. Which it not a huge deal since it only costs $19.00. Much bigger deal for a small Non-VIP hybrid owner that goes from 3 to 2 HKs and has to purchase one for $159.00.

Edited to add: That person that reported calling owner care to report the loss of 1 HK and was told that’s the way the new system works should call back and ask again.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 24, 2021)

r4rab said:


> @HitchHiker71 I think there may be a bug on non-calendar use years wrt VIP RARP. My UY is Oct-Sep and 100% retail. There is no line for VIP RARP even though I am temp VIPP, permanent VIPG (grandfathered).



Is this reported issue still occurring even after the outage window last week?


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## Sandy VDH (Aug 24, 2021)

Ty1on said:


> FYI, cancelled a reservation to book another one, and the RT was free.  We own all resale.



That is because online there are no RT fees for the remainder of August.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 24, 2021)

Eric B said:


> One more item for your list, @HitchHiker71 - I tried to check out the functionality for the points deposit feature to see if the numbers there match what I believe mine should be for resale and developer and it shows 0 developer points available to deposit.  I am VIPG with a January/December use year and have 93,322 points available, of which 26,623 should be developer points based on the allocations they are showing in the system.  When I select resale points as the source it indicates that I cannot deposit because it's past the deadline despite the specific allowance for that for the remainder of the year.  When I select "All Purchase Types" it spins for a little bit and kicks me back to the original page without doing anything.
> 
> Might be that the system isn't ready for prime time yet, though they indicated it was on line in their email.  Or it might be a problem in the implementation.  I had not intended to actually execute the deposit yet, but wanted to see what it thought my allocations were - I've got one of those weird display situations where it's showing current year in the points summary as being a bonus contract one that ran 10/1/2019-9/30/2021 and have been needing to rely on the display of current year points in the upper right hand corner and the dashboard to see what my remaining points for 1/1/2021-12/31/2021.



How are we looking for the PDF functions at present?  I see zero for either developer/resale for my current use year when selecting the PDF function - not sure if that's correct or not as I still have CUY developer points available - but they could be PIC points or previously forwarded points - difficult to tell really.  Just bringing this back to current day to see if we still need to document a bug for this item or not.


----------



## HitchHiker71 (Aug 24, 2021)

Eric B said:


> My point allocations were changed for existing reservations this afternoon as well.  This effects a couple of reservations I'm very likely to cancel for this year due to travel conditions, resulting in a net of about 110K that will no longer return as developer points, but instead as resale points.  This might all come out in the wash depending on how they allocate the complimentary VIP-eligible points for next use year, but it's fairly predictable that the folks they are doing this to are the types of folks that will check this things when they first get the chance to.  I'm not planning on doing anything to the reservations I've got until things sort themselves out and will reserve judgement until the complimentary points show up, but must admit that I'm a bit annoyed with them right now.  Given the functionality (or lack thereof) of the site, I don't believe I can get accurate information from it anyway since the transaction details in the benefits summary page do not match the transaction details in the points summary page - that would be another item for feedback, @HitchHiker71, those numbers should match if they are really drawing from the same underlying back end databases.  It's a bit more annoying because I did what I could to figure out where things stood when the site came up initially, and the information on the two pages matched, but the latest changes have resulted in them not matching.  It's not that I don't fundamentally trust them (  ), but this whole bunch of shenanigans with the system and the poor communications on what the rules really are have resulted in serious straining of what little trust I had left.  I still don't think it will change my usage in any major way in the long run, but they do give the impression that they really need to get their collective act together.



Are you still seeing discrepancies between the Tx history items between the Points Summary and the Benefits Summary?  If so - could you please provide screenshots as an example?


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## Ty1on (Aug 24, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> That is because online there are no RT fees for the remainder of August.



Yeah, just verifying that it is working for an "all resale" owner.


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## Eric B (Aug 24, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> How are we looking for the PDF functions at present?  I see zero for either developer/resale for my current use year when selecting the PDF function - not sure if that's correct or not as I still have CUY developer points available - but they could be PIC points or previously forwarded points - difficult to tell really.  Just bringing this back to current day to see if we still need to document a bug for this item or not.



Bot sure; I got Owner Resolution to move the points for me and they had to work around the issue.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 24, 2021)

Item tracking sheet screenshots for reference to date.  In some cases the submit date is not accurate since many issues were initially submitted directly via email and not via this sheet - simply in the interests of timing and convenience - the submit date is specific to when the item was recorded into the sheet itself.  Please let me know if anyone has questions.


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## ilya (Aug 24, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Are you still seeing discrepancies between the Tx history items between the Points Summary and the Benefits Summary?  If so - could you please provide screenshots as an example?




When I try to deposit points to next year it states my resale points are only allowed in the first three months... I thought it was allowed till the end of year... Will Owner care over ride this...


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## paxsarah (Aug 24, 2021)

Regarding the blank screen on the benefits summary, are there any resale-only owners who _don’t_ have a blank screen? Are there any developer owners who _do_ have a blank screen?

I thought the pattern is it was resale-only owners.

EDIT: I double checked the thread and there were three of us reporting it, all resale-only (me, @Ty1on, and @scootr5).


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 24, 2021)

ilya said:


> When I try to deposit points to next year it states my resale points are only allowed in the first three months... I thought it was allowed till the end of year... Will Owner care over ride this...



I would call into OC and have them process the points deposit - and specifically state that you attempted to use the website and it would not allow for PDF for resale points.  Hopefully that might result in a freebie.


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## paxsarah (Aug 25, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> Regarding the blank screen on the benefits summary, are there any resale-only owners who _don’t_ have a blank screen? Are there any developer owners who _do_ have a blank screen?
> 
> I thought the pattern is it was resale-only owners.
> 
> EDIT: I double checked the thread and there were three of us reporting it, all resale-only (me, @Ty1on, and @scootr5).


I realized I didn't tag @HitchHiker71 in this original post so he may have missed it. This is regarding the bug at item #8 on the spreadsheet.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 25, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> I realized I didn't tag @HitchHiker71 in this original post so he may have missed it. This is regarding the bug at item #8 on the spreadsheet.



I will modify the description to indicate that the owners reporting this issue - to date and in our limited understanding - are resale only owners.  We are referencing a specific IT trouble ticket number in that response - which is what Wyndham really needs to further troubleshoot the reported issue - the ticket number is blanked out in the screenshot to protect the original reporting owner reference.


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## dgalati (Aug 25, 2021)

paxsarah said:


> I realized I didn't tag @HitchHiker71 in this original post so he may have missed it. This is regarding the bug at item #8 on the spreadsheet.


All 3 of my accounts are resale and its a blank screen.


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## r4rab (Aug 25, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Is this reported issue still occurring even after the outage window last week?



Yes, this is still an issue. I think this predates the recent changes and I believe it has something to do with a Use Year of Oct-Sep. I do not have any resale contracts. I have never been able to book at 11 month RARP without calling (and have never used the 11 month RARP therefor). The Benefits Summary page highlighted the issue for me as I expected to see VIP RARP on that page and did not. I do see a CWP RARP category but that is due to 1 of my contracts having RARP at The Avenue.


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## 55plus (Aug 25, 2021)

dgalati said:


> All 3 of my accounts are resale and its a blank screen.


You mean like the expression on your face when you fart in an elevator?


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 25, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Yes, this is still an issue. I think this predates the recent changes and I believe it has something to do with a Use Year of Oct-Sep. I do not have any resale contracts. I have never been able to book at 11 month RARP without calling (and have never used the 11 month RARP therefor). The Benefits Summary page highlighted the issue for me as I expected to see VIP RARP on that page and did not. I do see a CWP RARP category but that is due to 1 of my contracts having RARP at The Avenue.



It does sound like you're not seeing what you would expect to see on the Benefits Summary page - so I'll still capture this issue into our current sheet since it is Benefits Summary related.


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## paxsarah (Aug 25, 2021)

One thing that they said during the general webinar on the benefits summary (not geared toward the specific issues of hybrid VIPs, but the general population of owners), is that in the introduction, when she specified which two types of owners the webinar was geared toward, she said it was for owners who have only developer points, and non-VIP owners who have some developer points and some purchased from a friend (where “friend” is a euphemism for resale). One thing she specifically did not say was owners who own only resale. I understand they probably don’t want to acknowledge to the general owner population that there are owners who never purchased from Wyndham and only own resale, but it’s very interesting in light of the fact that resale owners now don’t seem to have access to the benefits summary. It’s probably a coincidence, but still kind of funny.


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## r4rab (Aug 25, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> It does sound like you're not seeing what you would expect to see on the Benefits Summary page - so I'll still capture this issue into our current sheet since it is Benefits Summary related.


Thank you! Yes, I agree.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 25, 2021)

Got a bit of an update from Wyndham today from the items I've submitted via email (in other words not the entire list of items in our sheet).

Items to be addressed in the next unplanned sprint release - likely by end of this week:

Benefits Summary page not defaulting to the current use year
Unable to proceed to booking after doing a resort monthly availability search, infinite spinner
Items currently under review:

Unable to make a reservation in the ARP window. Showing zero points available when points are available
How housekeeping credits are now being calculated
Resale available points showing a different amount then what is showing in points summary for a future use year


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## north (Aug 25, 2021)

r4rab said:


> Yes, this is still an issue. I think this predates the recent changes and I believe it has something to do with a Use Year of Oct-Sep. I do not have any resale contracts. I have never been able to book at 11 month RARP without calling (and have never used the 11 month RARP therefor). The Benefits Summary page highlighted the issue for me as I expected to see VIP RARP on that page and did not. I do see a CWP RARP category but that is due to 1 of my contracts having RARP at The Avenue.



I have the same use year as you, and don't see the VIP RARP either.  I also have a CWP RARP category from one of my contracts.  I have both retail and resale contracts.

I have been able to use my VIP RARP online without any problems.  There is no indication that I am using one of my VIP RARPs when I book.  What happens if you try to make a reservation for July 2022?


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## dgalati (Aug 25, 2021)

55plus said:


> You mean like the expression on your face when you fart in an elevator?
> [/QUOTE


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## dgalati (Aug 25, 2021)

.


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## r4rab (Aug 26, 2021)

north said:


> I have the same use year as you, and don't see the VIP RARP either.  I also have a CWP RARP category from one of my contracts.  I have both retail and resale contracts.
> 
> I have been able to use my VIP RARP online without any problems.  There is no indication that I am using one of my VIP RARPs when I book.  What happens if you try to make a reservation for July 2022?


It seems like our accounts are very similar (other than you having resale and I don't).

I need to try making a VIP RARP reservation again in a more organized fashion. I'm pretty sure I tried making a Newport reservation that was a little over 10 months out and could not but was able to when I moved it closer to within the 10 month mark but I could be mistaken.


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## learnalot (Aug 26, 2021)

r4rab said:


> It seems like our accounts are very similar (other than you having resale and I don't).
> 
> I need to try making a VIP RARP reservation again in a more organized fashion. I'm pretty sure I tried making a Newport reservation that was a little over 10 months out and could not but was able to when I moved it closer to within the 10 month mark but I could be mistaken.



There are some seasonal/event weeks/prime time limitations on RARP.  I don't recall for certain, but I think that summer in Newport might be among the restricted times.


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## Eric B (Aug 28, 2021)

The complimentary developer points were deposited in my account as a goodwill award last night.  I'm VIPG and it was 35% of my average annual resale ownership (i.e., the annual amount plus half the biannual amount) as expected.


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## keno999 (Aug 28, 2021)

Eric B said:


> The complimentary developer points were deposited in my account as a goodwill award last night.  I'm VIPG and it was 35% of my average annual resale ownership (i.e., the annual amount plus half the biannual amount) as expected.


Developer points for UY2022 were added to my account as well -  VIPS, 25% of my resale contract.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 28, 2021)

The 50% of resale has been added to the 2022 UY developer bucket.


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## Eric B (Aug 28, 2021)

It doesn't really make a difference to me since I have unlimited developer housekeeping, but the additional points didn't come with an additional HK despite being enough to do so.  The only benefits that were associated with these points are use in CWP, use in Club Pass, and use in RCI.  My guess is that they also didn't come with an additional reservation transaction credit, but I can't really confirm that as they aren't displayed anywhere for me due to unlimited for VIPG.  Nothing terribly surprising, but confirms for me how goodwill points work in the system just as points you can use without the additional benefits.


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## ilya (Aug 28, 2021)

I also received my goodwill points... Because I called and stated that there were too many resale in my account than I own (the way they allocated  points balance  and reservations ) for 2022.. My account was adjusted to reflect the proper resale but they never put the points back into developer... Every time I call my account gets messed up... Even more... This was done sometime yesterday before goodwill points were added...


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## chapjim (Aug 28, 2021)

I picked up 400,000 developer points in the last day or two.


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## 55plus (Aug 28, 2021)

My resale points still show up as developer points, so I assume that's why I didn't receive complementary points. Last week l notified the hotline of the problem to no avail. I'll send an email this week to document the issue so it doesn't blow back on me.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 28, 2021)

Eric B said:


> The complimentary developer points were deposited in my account as a goodwill award last night. I'm VIPG and it was 35% of my average annual resale ownership (i.e., the annual amount plus half the biannual amount) as expected.



How exactly do the complimentary points display? Are they reflected as goodwill points in your Tx history for example? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eric B (Aug 28, 2021)

Goodwill


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 28, 2021)

chapjim said:


> I picked up 400,000 developer points in the last day or two.



I just confirmed I received 240,975 goodwill points - it displays in my FUY bucket as a Developer goodwill transaction. That’s exactly 35% of my resale owned points. We are VIPG so it matches our VIP points discount window percentage as expected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 28, 2021)

Eric B said:


> It doesn't really make a difference to me since I have unlimited developer housekeeping, but the additional points didn't come with an additional HK despite being enough to do so. The only benefits that were associated with these points are use in CWP, use in Club Pass, and use in RCI. My guess is that they also didn't come with an additional reservation transaction credit, but I can't really confirm that as they aren't displayed anywhere for me due to unlimited for VIPG. Nothing terribly surprising, but confirms for me how goodwill points work in the system just as points you can use without the additional benefits.



Good point. Do bonus point contracts receive additional HK/RT usually? I had bonus points up through 9/2020 but I was VIPP so as you said I didn’t really care and therefore didn’t pay any attention to the HK/RT balances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VacayKat (Aug 28, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I just confirmed I received 240,975 goodwill points - it displays in my FUY bucket as a Developer goodwill transaction. That’s exactly 35% of my resale owned points. We are VIPG so it matches our VIP points discount window percentage as expected.


60% added. Still showing more resale than should be. Exact opposite problem of @55plus - they’re still “looking into it” weeks later. Not holding out hope at this point that they will do what is right. Really don’t want these ‘goodwill’ points. Feels like hush-money.


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## 55plus (Aug 28, 2021)

Free points are free points, so use them wisely. It's like money on the bank. By Wyndham doing this everyone comes out ahead whether or not points were assigned where you wanted them assigned.


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## Eric B (Aug 28, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Good point. Do bonus point contracts receive additional HK/RT usually? I had bonus points up through 9/2020 but I was VIPP so as you said I didn’t really care and therefore didn’t pay any attention to the HK/RT balances.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm not positive how bonus point contracts are treated as I don't have any left.  I would think that they get RTs and HKs because they are points you own per a contract rather than points granted through goodwill.  Anyone else have an active bonus contract that can comment?


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## VacayKat (Aug 28, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I'm not positive how bonus point contracts are treated as I don't have any left.  I would think that they get RTs and HKs because they are points you own per a contract rather than points granted through goodwill.  Anyone else have an active bonus contract that can comment?


They do not - but only can confirm for VIP status With unlimited HK and RT


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 30, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Got a bit of an update from Wyndham today from the items I've submitted via email (in other words not the entire list of items in our sheet).
> 
> Items to be addressed in the next unplanned sprint release - likely by end of this week:
> 
> ...



The two bolded/underlined items above were rolled out late last week as planned.  I can now use the monthly availability calendar to book using resale points (non-ARP) without getting the infinite spinner.  My Benefits Summary is also now defaulting to my current use year - although specific to my account I still have an issue as my current use year is not set correctly - but that's my problem to now resolve.  I'm following up on the three outstanding items there were still under review for a status update.


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## Eric B (Aug 30, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> The two bolded/underlined items above were rolled out late last week as planned.  I can now use the monthly availability calendar to book using resale points (non-ARP) without getting the infinite spinner.  My Benefits Summary is also now defaulting to my current use year - although specific to my account I still have an issue as my current use year is not set correctly - but that's my problem to now resolve.  I'm following up on the three outstanding items there were still under review for a status update.



Took a look and the Benefits Summary page does appear to default to the earliest "Current Use Year" now; for me that is a bonus contract use year that will run out soon (9/30/21).  Once the bonus contract runs out, hopefully I can get them to remove those years as my account was realigned to January for a start when I added some resale EOY contracts.  I wouldn't strike this one off the list yet, though - the current year is still labeled as a "Future Use Year" on the drop down and if you select a different one then go back to the original default one it is labeled as a "Future Use Year" when selected.  Doesn't really effect the usability, but seems to be poorly labeled.

I checked and can also make a resale booking from the availability calendar now, though I still can't borrow from developer points to complete one in excess of the FUY resale points available.  It would let me rent points, though, to complete the final day of the reservation.  I noticed that the confirmation email I got doesn't have the VIPG marking either; hadn't noticed that last time I checked about being able to book resale after the change.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 30, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Took a look and the Benefits Summary page does appear to default to the earliest "Current Use Year" now; for me that is a bonus contract use year that will run out soon (9/30/21).  Once the bonus contract runs out, hopefully I can get them to remove those years as my account was realigned to January for a start when I added some resale EOY contracts.  I wouldn't strike this one off the list yet, though - the current year is still labeled as a "Future Use Year" on the drop down and if you select a different one then go back to the original default one it is labeled as a "Future Use Year" when selected.  Doesn't really effect the usability, but seems to be poorly labeled.



Yes - I've already reported this exact issue of my real CUY displaying as a FUY in the list as of this morning.  For reasons I cannot explain - my CUY is set to a use year that spans from 1/1/2021 to 12/31/2022 - though my bonus points contract expired on 9/30/2020 - so it's not a bonus point contract issue.  I had a major account re-alignment done when my NH resale contract came into my account - so I likely need to request an account audit to get things fixed - but I'm not going to request that right now as I'm concerned about more unintended consequences of any audit given all of the recent changes in flight.



> I checked and can also make a resale booking from the availability calendar now, though I still can't borrow from developer points to complete one in excess of the FUY resale points available.  It would let me rent points, though, to complete the final day of the reservation.  I noticed that the confirmation email I got doesn't have the VIPG marking either; hadn't noticed that last time I checked about being able to book resale after the change.



Correct - the issue of not being able to borrow from the developer points bucket remains outstanding, along with the resale ARP booking issue.  I'll add the email confirmation VIP status issue to our content management sheet section for follow up.


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## Eric B (Aug 30, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> I'll add the email confirmation VIP status issue to our content management sheet section for follow up.



I think that one is more of a feature than a bug.  It was for a resale booking; the ones I have for developer bookings showed VIPG status at the top.

I mentioned one other possible issue in the thread on RCI issues - it no longer reflect the ability for me to use an instant search and book using my developer points.


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## comicbookman (Aug 30, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I think that one is more of a feature than a bug.  It was for a resale booking; the ones I have for developer bookings showed VIPG status at the top.
> 
> I mentioned one other possible issue in the thread on RCI issues - it no longer reflect the ability for me to use an instant search and book using my developer points.


I also have a hybrid account. VIPP. Although I did not book, RCI allowed me to instant search and pick a room.  It showed me my available Wyndham points.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 30, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Correct - the issue of not being able to borrow from the developer points bucket remains outstanding, along with the resale ARP booking issue.  I'll add the email confirmation VIP status issue to our content management sheet section for follow up.


Sorry if I'm not understanding (if it's about RCI just ignore me).  For a reservation window in the express booking window, I am able to borrow developer points from next year.

In terms of the issues with the site, I don't know if it's been formally noted - although I've seen mention here or on FB - some erratic / can't reproduce yet behavior yet. Randomly getting logged off, sometimes see nothing in transaction history or upcoming reservations (it'll say I don't have any). Sometimes wonder if that lovely popup suggesting we use the online system instead of calling is part of the issue (that also pops up randomly and sometimes hangs things).


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## Eric B (Aug 30, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> Sorry if I'm not understanding (if it's about RCI just ignore me).  For a reservation window in the express booking window, I am able to borrow developer points from next year.
> 
> In terms of the issues with the site, I don't know if it's been formally noted - although I've seen mention here or on FB - some erratic / can't reproduce yet behavior yet. Randomly getting logged off, sometimes see nothing in transaction history or upcoming reservations (it'll say I don't have any). Sometimes wonder if that lovely popup suggesting we use the online system instead of calling is part of the issue (that also pops up randomly and sometimes hangs things).



I believe the issue was that you can't actually borrow developer points to complete a resale transaction, which is one thing we were told we could do in the original email and on the web site important information section.  At least that's what I had reported to @HitchHiker71.  When you were able to borrow developer points from next year, was it for a developer transaction or a resale transaction?


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 30, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I believe the issue was that you can't actually borrow developer points to complete a resale transaction, which is one thing we were told we could do in the original email and on the web site important information section.  At least that's what I had reported to @HitchHiker71.  When you were able to borrow developer points from next year, was it for a developer transaction or a resale transaction?


Sorry for any confusion, I was borrowing developer points for a transaction using (and short) of developer points.   (I've not seen the ability to mix the two).


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## comicbookman (Aug 30, 2021)

I was able to use developer points to add a night to a reservation that was labeled resale.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 30, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I believe the issue was that you can't actually borrow developer points to complete a resale transaction, which is one thing we were told we could do in the original email and on the web site important information section.  At least that's what I had reported to @HitchHiker71.  When you were able to borrow developer points from next year, was it for a developer transaction or a resale transaction?



That's correct, per the highlighted bullet point in the screenshot from website based Important Information section below.  It doesn't say anywhere that this only applies to the Express Window for example, but perhaps that's an assumption baked into the statement that isn't obvious.  If so, and this option only applies to the Express Window - I cannot test this theory as I currently have zero CUY resale points.  Anyone else care to test this theory?


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## HitchHiker71 (Sep 20, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Got a bit of an update from Wyndham today from the items I've submitted via email (in other words not the entire list of items in our sheet).
> 
> Items currently under review:
> 
> ...



To the best of my understanding the two bolded items above should now be resolved.  I'm still not sure about the HK credit issue though - since I'm VIP it's harder to determine really.  Updated mid-August feature release issue tracking list screenshots below for reference:









As always - if we're missing any items - please post them in reply to this thread.


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## markb53 (Sep 20, 2021)

@HitchHiker71, I don’t see this one in there.

PROBLEM STATEMENT: When using the online PDF function, non-VIP owners without a calendar based Jan-Dec use year do not see the expected two future use years to choose from when selecting a FUY for deposit purposes. This issue impacts the following UY owners: Apr-Mar, Jul-Jun, Oct-Sep. All non-VIP owners with non-calendar based UYs only see the immediate FUY and not the FUY beyond that year. For example, an owner in CUY 2021 with a Jun-Jul UY, attempts to use the PDF function to move points ahead to FUY 2023. Only FUY 2022 is displayed as an option, FUY 2023 does not appear as a valid option (and it should).  

Does this accurately capture the reported issue?


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## Eric B (Sep 21, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> To the best of my understanding the two bolded items above should now be resolved.  I'm still not sure about the HK credit issue though - since I'm VIP it's harder to determine really.  Updated mid-August feature release issue tracking list screenshots below for reference:
> 
> View attachment 40157
> 
> ...



Tested the ARP using my resale Bali Hai and it would have let me book a stay.  I didn't feel like paying the $19 for an RT, so I didn't go through with it.

To see if it reflected the proper resale FUY balance, I tested in SRP using my resale Bali Hai, for which I have 127K points next year.  I looked at Bali Hai availability in April and could have booked a stay for up to 161,500 points by renting the remaining points, but for a stay requiring 185,500 points or higher "Something Unexpected" happens.  I believe this is due to the limitation to the final day of booking for rental points in SRP, which would have been 41,500 (I was short 34,500 for the first case) or 45,500 (short 58,500 for the second case), so I believe this is working as it should - it also displayed the correct point availability for the first case.  The system seemed to work properly in the ERP, but I couldn't really test it as I have a lot more EOYO points and couldn't find a stay expensive enough to challenge my resale ownership limit for renting resale points.

One potential Enhancement Request would be to return a specific error statement that "Rental points needed for this booking exceed the cost of the final night" rather than "Something unexpected just happened".  This is something I should have expected, after all, but I shouldn't have had to waste a couple of minutes figuring out why I couldn't book that stay.  IMHO, enhancing the system to return specific error statements would provide a better customer experience.

A second potential Enhancement Request would be to include both Resale and Developer Rental Points benefits in the Benefits Summary pages, including the FUY ones.  The current system set up only shows the Rental Points benefit on the display for the CUY when it is selected and that benefit is listed in an amount that seems to match the developer point ownership total with no display of the corresponding resale point ownership.

I also note that the Rental Points benefit is improperly described in the member's directory on page 249 as a per reservation limit rather than an annual limit, which is strongly implied in the example provided there and demonstrated in the display similar to how the remaining annual benefits are displayed (xxx,xxx/xxx,xxx).  I've copied the discussion from the directory below for reference.  If they really want to limit annual rental points to the annual ownership allocation, they should edit the bulleted item to state that "Rental points in a Use Year are limited to your annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts" and add a separate bulleted item for rentals in ERP stating that "When confirming an Express Reservation, 3 months or less prior to check-in, you may rent up to the amount needed for the stay."  Based on the way it is implemented, I believe that their intent is to limit total rental point usage, including SRP and ERP stays, to the ownership allocation, but the guidelines they have in place don't really say that.


When confirming an Express Reservation, 3 months or less prior to check-in, you may rent up to the amount of points you receive for your annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts.
EXAMPLE: If you receive 154,000 points each Use Year, you may rent up to 154,000 points each calendar year.


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## HitchHiker71 (Sep 21, 2021)

markb53 said:


> @HitchHiker71, I don’t see this one in there.
> 
> PROBLEM STATEMENT: When using the online PDF function, non-VIP owners without a calendar based Jan-Dec use year do not see the expected two future use years to choose from when selecting a FUY for deposit purposes. This issue impacts the following UY owners: Apr-Mar, Jul-Jun, Oct-Sep. All non-VIP owners with non-calendar based UYs only see the immediate FUY and not the FUY beyond that year. For example, an owner in CUY 2021 with a Jun-Jul UY, attempts to use the PDF function to move points ahead to FUY 2023. Only FUY 2022 is displayed as an option, FUY 2023 does not appear as a valid option (and it should).
> 
> Does this accurately capture the reported issue?



Added.


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