# Latest from a sales update.



## dougp26364 (Dec 11, 2020)

Yes, I know, it’s coming from the sales staff, but it was a unique angle for me.

We previously had increased our ownership to barely enough to qualify for Chairman’s level. I really did t think they would have much of an angle to attempt to entice me, but they did have a plan.

Now their offering the point equivalent of “quarter” shares at three new levels, 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000. PLUS, they were “giving” away points after incentives once you make a purchase. So many incentives that you would receive 110% value on the cost of your purchase. This deal is so sweet that they will only allow you to purchase the equivalent of the number of trust point you own (enrolled points from weeks don’t count) AND, there’s a price roll back to $10/point.

The problem was he thought we were at 20,000 points already. We own two EOY contracts. The print out lists them both as EY, or doubling up those points. I’ve run into this snafu before. So the big hole in the boat was he thought I only needed a little under 5,000 points to reach the next level when the truth was I would need closer to 9,500 points. Plus, under the terms he laid out, I would only be able to purchase the equivalent of the trust points I currently own, which would be 4,000, putting that next level of 25,000 well out range. I calculate the cost of that next level closer to $120,500 than the roughly $50,000 he thought it would be. A pretty easy no for me.

One other thing he mentioned was that there will be an integrated points program between MVC and SVN and it is suppose tobe announced in the second quarter. I don’t recall if he specified which year  . I’ve heard about integration at nearly every update we’ve attended. So much so my eyes just glaze over when they mention it.

We were offered $300 or 45,000 BonVoy points to attended and the presentation lasted a little over 90 minutes. They were also hot to trot to get us back on an encore package. 1 week at Oceana Palms for $1,495, which is a good deal in itself, but they would also throw in $600 in gift cards as a further incentive. Make of that what you will.  I didn’t take the encore package. I have enough points/weeks pushed for future use due to all the cancelations from 2020 that we’ll have difficulty using those. Sure I could rent some of what we own but, I really don’t have the time or inclination to get into the rental game right now.

I really didn’t get into the details of what those different point levels would get as a “quarter share” as far as unit size or season. I wasn’t that interested. At least it was a little more interesting than I’m thought it would be.


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## youknowthenight (Dec 11, 2020)

At Ko Olina this week, offered $75 or 20,000 Bonvoy points for presentation (this was for a single person, it appeared they may have been offering double for couples).
Encore package was $1395 for 5 nights studio/$1795 for 5 nights 1bd. Included 30,000 Bonvoy points.


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## Mlvnsmly (Dec 11, 2020)

I had the same $1495/$600 GC encore package in Orlando, but it was for Cypress Harbour.  I passed.


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## Luvtoride (Dec 14, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Yes, I know, it’s coming from the sales staff, but it was a unique angle for me.
> 
> We previously had increased our ownership to barely enough to qualify for Chairman’s level. I really did t think they would have much of an angle to attempt to entice me, but they did have a plan.
> 
> ...



Doug P, thanks for the update and the new “angle” MVC is pitching to us Chairman’s Club owners. 25k/50k/75k ownership levels?! Really? How on earth are they justifying the spend on MF for 75k points into a “Vacation bank account” scenario? Wow!

I just got the call yesterday from Crystal Shores in Marco Island where we are arriving next Sunday, to try to entice us to sign up for a tour (pre arrival). The offer was pretty weak at $175 gift cards or 400 DC points or 25k Bonvoy points. After reading your post I won’t even go back to counter offer for a bigger incentive! I just want to enjoy a relaxing vacation and don’t need anymore stress this year! 

Happy Holidays all! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tynian16 (Dec 14, 2020)

I was offered $300 at Royal Palms in Orlando a couple weeks ago but didn't take it.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 14, 2020)

I must have sucker stamped on my forehead. The only reason I listened to them was the offer was $300 or 40,000 BonVoy points. Either that or they know $175/20,000 won’t het me off the couch. LOL

They were using the angle of quarter share ownership without the “headache” of full condo ownership. They were listing condos that cost in the millions to buy, thousands in condo association dues, insurance costs et..... it’s not a bad angle for those nearing retirement age and wanting a winter home that can move from warm location to warm location, but don’t have the money for that big ticket item purchase. They were selling the idea of buy and payoff the loan now before hitting retirement, then it’s just MF’s. In the meantime “rent” those unused points to offset current MF’s or convert to BonVoy points to pay for future travel expenses.

What they don’t lay out is the HOW you might be assured you can get that quarter share where/when you want. I could see that as problematic stringing thirteen weeks together in one location. Not to mention the havoc it could cause us regular members trying to get a single high value week.

There was other smoke and mirrors used in the numbers. Like, DC points MF’s only go up, on average, 1%/year while resort MF’s go up, on average, 8% per year. The hole in that boat was so huge I didn’t bother to review the 20 years of historical data in my brain. I’ve complained about the average being 4-5%/year. I don’t ever recall an 8% increase at any of our resorts unless there was a special assessment. Even then I don’t think it was that high. Then there’s his anticipation that DC fees would only go up 1% on average. Really? I guess I could have asked him to pull out the historical fees of the resort we were sitting in plus the historical fees of the DC for the last 10 years and then made him do the math.


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## Luvtoride (Dec 14, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> I must have sucker stamped on my forehead. The only reason I listened to them was the offer was $300 or 40,000 BonVoy points. Either that or they know $175/20,000 won’t het me off the couch. LOL
> 
> They were using the angle of quarter share ownership without the “headache” of full condo ownership. They were listing condos that cost in the millions to buy, thousands in condo association dues, insurance costs et..... it’s not a bad angle for those nearing retirement age and wanting a winter home that can move from warm location to warm location, but don’t have the money for that big ticket item purchase. They were selling the idea of buy and payoff the loan now before hitting retirement, then it’s just MF’s. In the meantime “rent” those unused points to offset current MF’s or convert to BonVoy points to pay for future travel expenses.
> 
> ...



Doug, very interesting analysis of the pitch.  I'm sorry you had to go through such mental gymnastics while on vacation!  

I remember many years ago before DC points at Newport Coast Villas, getting a similar pitch, when the sales rep said that he had owners buying 52 weeks so that they could use NCV as a retirement or 2nd home!!!  I didn't believe it then and I don't buy it now.  All the points you raised are very valid and as we all know...." past performance is not a guarantee of future performance".

We are fortunate that we do own a 2nd home at the Jersey shore which is about an hour from where we live.  Yes, carrying costs are high (although less than MF on 50k-75k of DC points) but having it always available when we want to stay there is a HUGE difference.  

I get it that they need ways to pitch existing owners to increase their portfolios (I'm sure we are the top prospects that they ever meet) but with mortgage rates at historical lows, the $50,000-$100,000 they are asking you to plunk down for huge amounts of points, could be a pretty decent down payment on a vacation home!


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## bogey21 (Dec 14, 2020)

If I were younger and if I wanted to spend 13 weeks every year in one location like Florida, Arizona or maybe Colorado every year this would have appealed to me.  The key though would be to have the 13  weeks and unit I wanted locked in like a Fixed Week/Fixed Unit Time Share.  I have my doubts this would be available...

George


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## dansimms (Dec 14, 2020)

If I ever had that many points, I would want to pay the maintenance fees associated with the Grand Residence in Lake Tahoe. They could make a more compelling case for the upgrade if they could say to a Chairman........."Right now with 15,000 points, you are paying about 55 cents in maintenance on a blended basis. Going to 25,000 will bring your blended maintenance down, to be on par with the Grand Residence rate of about 37 cents (just a guess on my part). $8,250 as a Chairman and just $9,250 for the Quarter share.  That would get attention!


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## BigDawgTUG (Dec 14, 2020)

dansimms, you are pretty darn close on your numbers.  Before buying GRC, my blended rate on MFs for just over 10,000 DPs (comprising of both DPs and legacy week conversions) was about $0.62.  After buying 1BR quarter share at GRC, with St. Kitts as the qualifying week, blended rate of MFs on nearly 50,000 points fell to $0.35.


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## frank808 (Dec 14, 2020)

I am ready to see what they want to sell me in a couple weeks.  Will be in Orlando at Grand Vista and see if they use this 25k,50k, etc on me.  I will be a very hard sale with that train of thought.  For at least $300 I am willing to sit through a 90 min sales pitch.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 14, 2020)

frank808 said:


> I am ready to see what they want to sell me in a couple weeks.  Will be in Orlando at Grand Vista and see if they use this 25k,50k, etc on me.  I will be a very hard sale with that train of thought.  For at least $300 I am willing to sit through a 90 min sales pitch.



I think the angle depends on your level at this time. Up until we were chairman’s level, they pushed to get to that level. Because there’s nothing official above Chairman’s level, this is the current concept. There’s a small fraction of owners that will be interested and even fewer aren’t current owners who would see a benefit of paying $350,000 plus $17,500/year in MF’s.

in my case, the salesman believed I was sooooo close to that $25,000 level. He thought I needed only 5,000 points when in fact it was closer to 10,000. Plus, he believed he could sell those 5,000 points for $50,000 ($10/point). I must have looked like a slam dunk but the reality was anything but.

Based on what I see from the resorts you own, my bet is you look like a prime candidate as well.


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## frank808 (Dec 15, 2020)

We wont be purchasing anything else from Marriott, unless there is a way they can assure me I won't be paying MF's anymore  

We already own the equivalent of over 100k destination points annually (enrolled weeks and DP).  Curious to see what sales can conjure up to get me to consider buying more.


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## dansimms (Dec 15, 2020)

frank808 said:


> We wont be purchasing anything else from Marriott, unless there is a way they can assure me I won't be paying MF's anymore
> On the hotel side, they have a number of branded luxury residences that are quite expensive , such as Ritz Carlton and St Regis.  Perhaps a crossover into one of those. You would need a lot more point equivalents for all of them.
> 
> 
> We already own the equivalent of over 100k destination points annually (enrolled weeks and DP).  Curious to see what sales can conjure up to get me to consider buying more.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 15, 2020)

frank808 said:


> We wont be purchasing anything else from Marriott, unless there is a way they can assure me I won't be paying MF's anymore
> 
> We already own the equivalent of over 100k destination points annually (enrolled weeks and DP).  Curious to see what sales can conjure up to get me to consider buying more.



I’d absolutely LOVE to hear what they offer you. Part of the reason I still go to updates is just to hear their latest pitch. Always, regardless of where I think I stand, they always seem to get creative in their pitch. Sometimes I’m disappointed. Sometimes I’m fascinated by their creativity. At 100K points, I’d imagine they’ll need to be real creative. Either that or just hand over the check and wish you well.


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## jmhpsu93 (Dec 15, 2020)

What they're pitching is an interesting concept for my generation (I'm 51).  Our parents were able to pick up 2nd / vacation homes at pretty reasonable prices relative to today.  Most can't afford the entry price even at today's interest rates, plus the maintenance/upkeep and hassle of renting if you want to offset those costs.  And you have, say, a beach house on the east coast (Ocean City, MD or Sea Isle, NJ, for instance) your place is going to sit empty six months of the year unless you're a "love the beach in the winter when nothing is open" kind of person.

Living in a beach front condo 12-15 weeks a year with the opprotunity to move around is a really interesting concept.  The key is to figure out how to do it as cheaply as possible, both acqusition and $$/point or week.

I did some rough math on Ocean Pointe or Oceana Palms.  Acquiring a couple of silver and a dozen or so platinum weeks there would run you about $150K +/-, plus another $25K/year in maintenance fees (I added the silver so you can start your 13-month reservation in early December).

One of those condos would probably run you upwards of $700-800K, so $150K down and $60K in mortgage payments.

I wonder if they're going to create another level with longer advance reservation windows for those people who specifically want to string together weeks snowbirding in one geographic location (Florida, HHI, or SoCal/Palm Springs) but like to move around a bit.  If you're telling me I get to snowbird but it's going to cost me what they're asking, I want some semblence of an advantage.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanks for sharing the info. One of the hardest parts for me to swallow about a fractional is the risk in loss of residual value compared to owning a condo which have been appreciating.

What are rental week costs in the area for a seasonal condo? Although interest rates are low, if you can put $150k into the stock market  or 3% vehicle. Use the interest/appreciation ($4,500)  toward renting a condo each season. Sure some years may be slim and not cover completely but others may be great (like the stock market this year) to overcompensate. Unlike a TS, at the end you get all (or most) of your money back, no hassle to sell, and you have more control over the rate of capital decline.


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## Luvtoride (Dec 15, 2020)

CalGal , Jmp and Doug, interesting perspectives on the economics of such a strategy.  I think it will be a hard sell for MVC to convince many owners (I'm sure non-MVC owners are NOT the intended customers) to bite at this type of ownership, without some significant inducements and enhancements such as the advance reservation window "exclusively" for such owner levels.  CalGal, I'm not sure about the investment return part, as getting even 3% on a short term basis to generate income for annual rentals isn't a guarantee either.  On the other hand, many of our friends here in the cold northeast (I'm in NJ) routinely rent homes in Florida for 3 months each winter at a pretty reasonable price, without the long term commitment and the ability to switch to different properties each year.  I guess MVC needs to come up with new sales pitches (and better incentives to even go and listen) if they want to grow the business.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 15, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for sharing the info. One of the hardest parts for me to swallow about a fractional is the risk in loss of residual value compared to owning a condo which have been appreciating.
> 
> What are rental week costs in the area for a seasonal condo? Although interest rates are low, if you can put $150k into the stock market  or 3% vehicle. Use the interest/appreciation ($4,500)  toward renting a condo each season. Sure some years may be slim and not cover completely but others may be great (like the stock market this year) to overcompensate. Unlike a TS, at the end you get all (or most) of your money back, no hassle to sell, and you have more control over the rate of capital decline.



Here's my take on these numbers...as I'm sure you know, your $4500 yield from investing the $150K would certainly not come close to covering the rental costs of the 12-14 weeks @jmhpsu93 envisioned in his example, but if you use the $4.5K as the opportunity cost of spending $150K on South FL timeshares, and then add in the maintenance fee cost he used ($25K), you get about $30K cost for the 12-14 weeks, or about $2200-$2500 per week. Whether you could rent comparable accommodations in prime South Florida season for that, I don't know.

We faced a similar decision before we decided to buy a 2BR condo in Hilton Head a little over a year ago. We considered all the options - just renting or using some sort of extensive timeshare additions like are being discussed in this thread to accomplish the same goals. In the end, we decided to buy the condo primarily because of the spontaneity it allows (no need to make reservations; we can just go when we feel like it) and the ability to have "our place" renovated the way we wanted it, with the furniture, soft goods, and artwork we choose. Owning also gives us the ability to keep clothes and beach stuff there and food in the pantry, freezer, and refrigerator, so when we decide to go to Hilton Head, we just get in the car and go, no packing required. A perfect example was this past weekend - forecast was party sunny in the low 70s for mid-December, so we went down Saturday AM and came back Sunday night. You can't generally be that spontaneous with rentals or timeshare, so sometimes the benefits are non-financial rather than purely numbers-based.

Our annual cash flow costs of owning the condo are about $22K (HOA fees, property taxes, utilities, etc.) so that's equal to about 14 or 15 weeks of timeshares, based on typical Hilton Head timeshare maintenance fees. For that, we get 365 days of "potential" usage, whenever we want. I haven't kept track of our trips to Hilton Head since our renovation wrapped up back in April, but we haven't gone more than about two weeks without spending at least two or three nights on the island over the past eight months. We'll be back on the island in a couple weeks for New Years Eve/Day weekend. How we will use the unit during the cooler months - January through March - is still TBD, though, particularly this coming year. That's usually a great time to enjoy the great HHI restaurants, but since outdoor dining weather in those months can be spotty, until the public health situation improves enough to make frequent indoor dining more attractive, our usage in those months may be less than they will hopefully be in future years.

Another advantage of a condo is that kind of real estate will tend to appreciate over time, whereas timeshares do not. We can view our capital as invested in the condo instead of stocks or cash and certainly expect that if we sell it someday, we will sell at a profit. Based on looking at some recent sales in the condo complex where we own, we could already sell at a profit and recoup a not-insignificant portion of our almost $100K renovation costs. The HHI market is booming, with real estate closings in November 2020 up 62% over November 2019. Obviously like the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but we feel good about our investment in HHI.

There is still a very important place for our Marriott and Hilton timeshares in our travel portfolio, but they are for more distant locales like Hawaii, Florida, the Caribbean, etc.


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## Dean (Dec 15, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> I’d absolutely LOVE to hear what they offer you. Part of the reason I still go to updates is just to hear their latest pitch. Always, regardless of where I think I stand, they always seem to get creative in their pitch. Sometimes I’m disappointed. Sometimes I’m fascinated by their creativity. At 100K points, I’d imagine they’ll need to be real creative. Either that or just hand over the check and wish you well.


I think the next few years will be interesting.  I wouldn't be surprised to see another level above Chairman's club but I think it more likely they'll just adjust the requirements and grandfather the existing members at those levels.  The kicker to me is going to be an integrated system and what the ins and outs are.  And at almost 70K points I wouldn't even think about making any changes without something concrete in place.  Sales are always going to come up with angles and they are quite gifted at figuring out what angle might work for the people in front of them so it'll vary from tour to tour though there will be some consistent approaches that come out over time.


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## frank808 (Dec 15, 2020)

I actually bought all these Marriott weeks to have as a retirement home.  Back story is we were going to buy a home in Carlsbad CA about 10 years ago.  Went with a realtor looked around and was ready to purchase.  Pinched for time, I told realtor we would do the signing when we got home and fedex documents.   Well got home and the refrigerator flooded the kitchen and family room plus the washing machine was also broken.  So with all these set backs we were worried about our retirement home 2500 miles that we would only visit maybe once a year until we retire in 15 years or so (have been to Carlsbad twice on all these years).  Then it dawned on me that we loved staying in TS and the acquisition cost was almost nil plus we could use the timeshares now.  So we went with buying Marriott TS to use as our vacation/retirement home that is available in many locales and not just one.

Marriott puchases on the resale market cost us about $52k and that was all we spent until last year.  With enrolling all our weeks into the DC program to save on future exchange and lockoff fees we spent about another $90k.  All in we have spent about $142k and have 26 weeks at our quartershares and 17 two bedroom lock off weeks all enrolled in DC program.  Our annual Marriott MF for 2021 at $40k which is higher than a vacation home by about $1500 a month or $18k a year.  For that premium, I gain the ability to stay at all the different Marriott timeshares in the world.  Have weekly housekeeping and never have to purchase linens, towels, detergent, etc.  Not having to replace TV's, washers, household appliances, etc. is worth the premium to my wife and I.  

So our decision is completely opposite of almost everyone else on a vacation/retirement home.  We are in our late 40's and hopefully we will be able to spend many years staying at all the different marriotts.  Will finally be able to TS full time any where we want in about 3 years.  Don't think that our TS will be worth anything but $0.  Buying timeshares was not thought of as in investment, it is actually an expense.  But it is an investment into our mental well being.  

Sorry to go off topic but I am truly interested in seeing what angle Marriott sales could use in a couple of weeks.  In my mind, I have my full year fractional and can't fathom a spin to get me to purchase again.


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## GregT (Dec 15, 2020)

I also view my timeshares as a surrogate for a second home -- we are lucky to live in a year-round destination and we love the ability to travel to Hawaii/Caribbean/other.   It will be interesting to see how these systems evolve, but very happy with what we have been able to accumulate and really looking forward to maximizing it!

As with others, I really can't think what Marriott can offer to me to entice me to buy again to get a quarter share/half share?   

But it appears they are targeting the uber-wealthy who could buy 75,000 points (for $750K) and have lots of travel options....I know that Kaanapali Alii (next to Maui Ocean Club) has 2BR OF units that have sold for $4M+ -- so buying the points equivalent for 10 weeks @ $750K (and not being obligated for the Alii's $2K/month HOA) might actually make sense.   Interesting...

Best,

Greg


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## Luvtoride (Dec 16, 2020)

frank808 said:


> I actually bought all these Marriott weeks to have as a retirement home...All in we have spent about $142k and have 26 weeks at our quartershares and 17 two bedroom lock off weeks all enrolled in DC program. Our annual Marriott MF for 2021 at $40k which is higher than a vacation home by about $1500 a month or $18k a year.



Frank, not sure what you mean by “26 weeks at our quartershares and 17 two bedroom lockoffs”? Do you own 43 weeks? How many equivalent DC points?

Since you’re not retired yet, how much of your portfolio do you get to use annually now? Do you rent out unused weeks and points now to help cover MF? Sounds like that could be a full- time job. 
I’m just curious as I haven’t encountered an owner with such an extensive portfolio before.
Thanks,
Brian


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## frank808 (Dec 16, 2020)

Luvtoride said:


> Frank, not sure what you mean by “26 weeks at our quartershares and 17 two bedroom lockoffs”? Do you own 43 weeks? How many equivalent DC points?
> 
> Since you’re not retired yet, how much of your portfolio do you get to use annually now? Do you rent out unused weeks and points now to help cover MF? Sounds like that could be a full- time job.
> I’m just curious as I haven’t encountered an owner with such an extensive portfolio before.
> ...



Yes, we own 43 marriott weeks and 5k DC points. It equates to over 100k DC points annually. 

The 2br's get locked off every year into a studio and 1 bedroom for deposit to II. Most of the quarter shares weeks I convert to DC points (around 20-23 weeks are turned into DC points annually[). That leaves me with about 37-40 weeks a year. Yes, we use all the weeks for trading into MKO every year. We were able to enroll our weeks into the DC program 2 years ago. I have rented my DC points to a broker for the past 2 years. It has been a hassle free experience to transfer all the points into his account. Now 2021 is looking to be a year where I will have a surplus of 70k DC points to rent. 

For our HGVC ownership, we use our point annually. 

We have started to rent about 95% of our DVC points annually. Son says he is to old and doesn't enjoy Disney anymore (teenagers!). 

I use a broker for the MVC and DVC point system. Because of the MVC and DVC brokers, renting takes very little effort on my part to rent. 

Hope this answers your questions. If you have any more questions please post away. 

I know of at least one grand residence owner that owns a unit for 52 weeks. 

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## Dean (Dec 16, 2020)

frank808 said:


> I actually bought all these Marriott weeks to have as a retirement home.  Back story is we were going to buy a home in Carlsbad CA about 10 years ago.  Went with a realtor looked around and was ready to purchase.  Pinched for time, I told realtor we would do the signing when we got home and fedex documents.   Well got home and the refrigerator flooded the kitchen and family room plus the washing machine was also broken.  So with all these set backs we were worried about our retirement home 2500 miles that we would only visit maybe once a year until we retire in 15 years or so (have been to Carlsbad twice on all these years).  Then it dawned on me that we loved staying in TS and the acquisition cost was almost nil plus we could use the timeshares now.  So we went with buying Marriott TS to use as our vacation/retirement home that is available in many locales and not just one.
> 
> Marriott puchases on the resale market cost us about $52k and that was all we spent until last year.  With enrolling all our weeks into the DC program to save on future exchange and lockoff fees we spent about another $90k.  All in we have spent about $142k and have 26 weeks at our quartershares and 17 two bedroom lock off weeks all enrolled in DC program.  Our annual Marriott MF for 2021 at $40k which is higher than a vacation home by about $1500 a month or $18k a year.  For that premium, I gain the ability to stay at all the different Marriott timeshares in the world.  Have weekly housekeeping and never have to purchase linens, towels, detergent, etc.  Not having to replace TV's, washers, household appliances, etc. is worth the premium to my wife and I.
> 
> ...


When I got out of training, left the military and got my career going in the private sector I started looking around to decide about vacations and leisure time.  In our area and my world the obvious choice was either a Beach home/condo or a mountain home.  But we don't like to go to the same place all the time.  I had relatives that were into the Airstream world and encouraged that direction.  Neither seemed like a good fit at the time.  Then we attended a DVC presentation and that got me to investigating timeshares, which seemed to be the best choice for vacation for our situation.  Fortunately I was able to learn enough about them, including resale choices, to make better decisions going in than most do that are new to timeshares.  So we first bought DVC resale then Marriott.  I also had a friend who owned at a resort in Aruba and as I investigated that option I was able to pick up some really good weeks with very low fees cheaply.  As time went on I added to all 3 of these areas and later converted those fixed weeks in Aruba to Bluegreen points (best move of my timeshare choices).  This mix has worked great for us for travel and I feel we made the right choices.  

Probably the best benefit is that it has forced us to vacation and travel on a routine basis, something we had not done previously and I suspect would not done as well or consistently without the timeshares as we have with them.  Over the years we've adjust and fine tuned our portfolio slightly largely with retirement in mind.  My all in cost is modestly more than yours but we use them differently than simply for points having bought mainly for weeks usage of the resorts we own at and II exchanging to other Marriott's with points as a secondary issue (though important one).  If I could do it over again today and have exactly the same option there are a couple of things I'd have done differently but I'd say that my timeshare portfolio would look at least 90% the same as it does today and the differences would be minor ones.

On top of that I've bought and sold a few weeks over the years with some decent profits as well.


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## frank808 (Dec 16, 2020)

It is great that we can all come together and share our journey into the TS world. We have helped many people become educated about their TS purchases and how to make good use out of them. 

There is no one portfolio or TS to fit everyone. I bought mainly just to trade. We already live here in Hawaii and have a home to go back to when not travelling. So we were looking for something that we could use and enjoy on the mainland US. We do have an idea of getting an RV and touring the US including Alaska. Stay in the RV and book TS stays for a week or two at different locales is one of my wishes. 

If I had to do my Marriott portfolio again, I would have probably only have Willowridge and Grand Chateau weeks. I would have them split evenly between the two TS. Willowridge has the lowest MF in Marriott and Grand Chateau is a close second but gets a decent amount of DC points if I ever want to. But it is hard to say no to the free weeks or very cheap weeks that kept my buy in costs low.

Everyone stay safe and happy holidays. Hope I get a chance to meet all tuggers at one point. 

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## Luvtoride (Dec 16, 2020)

We are traveling to Marco Island to stay at Marriott Crystal Shores starting this Sunday. We got the call a couple of days ago offering us a pre-arrival Sales presentation to book a time slot. Their gift offer was for $175 gift card or 400 DC points or 25k Bonvoy points. We declined, which was followed up by an email request from the same rep. I went back and asked for an increased amount of the gift card as others here have clearly indicated getting $300 at other properties. She just responded and said that each property has their own scale and budget of what they can offer and we should reconsider as they have much important information to share with us (like upping our chairman’s level to 25k or 50k DC points?). She said they just added a $25 additional pre gifting bonus.

I will enjoy my vacation without having to spend any time with sales reps! 

Happy Holidays all.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 16, 2020)

I'd be willing to bet that no one else has ever been asked at a sales presentation who you voted for (as in the 2020 Federal Election).  *<<-- Yes, this happened to us!*


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## Fasttr (Dec 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I'd be willing to bet that no one else has ever been asked at a sales presentation who you voted for (as in the 2020 Federal Election).  *<<-- Yes, this happened to us!*


Did you tell him/her Ross Perot.


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## jmhpsu93 (Dec 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I'd be willing to bet that no one else has ever been asked at a sales presentation who you voted for (as in the 2020 Federal Election).  *<<-- Yes, this happened to us!*


I get a kick out of reps who think they can read my wife and I about our political or social views and try to create some sort of bond.  LOL

And I'll bet this happened in Florida.   

"Florida Man Injured While Probing Voting Tendencies In Sales Prospects"  Story at 11.


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## jmhpsu93 (Dec 16, 2020)

We're heading over to Lakeshore for a presentation on the 30th during our visit to Royal Palms for $300 or 45K points.  Normally I'm a full-on points chaser but we're probably two years away from Italy trips right now, so cash money it is.


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## Luvtoride (Dec 16, 2020)

jmhpsu93 said:


> We're heading over to Lakeshore for a presentation on the 30th during our visit to Royal Palms for $300 or 45K points. Normally I'm a full-on points chaser but we're probably two years away from Italy trips right now, so cash money it is.



Interesting how Lakeshore in Orlando pays $300 and Crystal Shores offers $175?! Jmh, I agree... take the money and run!!! 


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## dioxide45 (Dec 16, 2020)

jmhpsu93 said:


> I get a kick out of reps who think they can read my wife and I about our political or social views and try to create some sort of bond.  LOL
> 
> And I'll bet this happened in Florida.
> 
> "Florida Man Injured While Probing Voting Tendencies In Sales Prospects"  Story at 11.


Actually, it wasn't in Florida...


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## frank808 (Dec 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> I'd be willing to bet that no one else has ever been asked at a sales presentation who you voted for (as in the 2020 Federal Election).  *<<-- Yes, this happened to us!*


I would have said Kanye!


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## frank808 (Dec 16, 2020)

jmhpsu93 said:


> We're heading over to Lakeshore for a presentation on the 30th during our visit to Royal Palms for $300 or 45K points.  Normally I'm a full-on points chaser but we're probably two years away from Italy trips right now, so cash money it is.


Did someone contact you ahead of time to schedule?  I have a stay at Sheraton Vistana Villages and the following week at Grand Vista.  My stay starts Jan 3 and no one has contacted me to attend a presentation.  I figure at Grand Vista I will get hit at check in.  Have never been to Vistana Villages so that is new.  Wanted to stay at Lakeshore again but these $327 weeks with AC made it a no brainer vs doing a trade.  About $45 a night in a Marriott 2br is a steal.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 16, 2020)

Fasttr said:


> Did you tell him/her Ross Perot.





frank808 said:


> I would have said Kanye!


All the snappy comebacks you think of later instead of in the moment...


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## dioxide45 (Dec 16, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Did someone contact you ahead of time to schedule?  I have a stay at Sheraton Vistana Villages and the following week at Grand Vista.  My stay starts Jan 3 and no one has contacted me to attend a presentation.  I figure at Grand Vista I will get hit at check in.  Have never been to Vistana Villages so that is new.  Wanted to stay at Lakeshore again but these $327 weeks with AC made it a no brainer vs doing a trade.  About $45 a night in a Marriott 2br is a steal.


At SVV, they will likely hit you up at the "parking pass" desk. The one time we went there on an AC, we were directed to some other guy to get our parking pass and he started to offer a presentation as I started to tell him we just did one a couple weeks earlier. They allow you do do them there every 30 days, at least for Vistana owners.


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## frank808 (Dec 16, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> At SVV, they will likely hit you up at the "parking pass" desk. The one time we went there on an AC, we were directed to some other guy to get our parking pass and he started to offer a presentation as I started to tell him we just did one a couple weeks earlier. They allow you do do them there every 30 days, at least for Vistana owners.


Thanks will see if I can do one at each place.  No skin off my back and we have nothing planned to do.  Want to see what spin is going to be point on by sales to buy now.  Only willing to go for $300 or close to it, am not going for $150.  Told my wife we can get a couple nice dinners out of our 90 minutes (hopefully less).


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## jmhpsu93 (Dec 17, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Did someone contact you ahead of time to schedule?  I have a stay at Sheraton Vistana Villages and the following week at Grand Vista.  My stay starts Jan 3 and no one has contacted me to attend a presentation.  I figure at Grand Vista I will get hit at check in.  Have never been to Vistana Villages so that is new.  Wanted to stay at Lakeshore again but these $327 weeks with AC made it a no brainer vs doing a trade.  About $45 a night in a Marriott 2br is a steal.


Yes, they called me.  I was originally supposed to be at Cypress Harbour but moved over the Royal Palms with a better check-in date.  The concierge wasn't aware we had changed.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 17, 2020)

@frank808 @GregT  We own both a second home and timeshares. The story @frank808 described about the refrigerator flooding the house (or pipe break) is a fear we have and we are only a 4 hour drive away!

I agree that timeshares are an affordable surrogate for a second home - especially if you buy resale. What I hate about the second home is that  I  see many items which need attention, cleaning and maintenance when visiting. It's hard to relax because you know you must get these fixed during the short time you are there. Sure you can hire trades to fix, but that's a hassle because they are busy and not always available for small jobs in a resort location. Of course, there are benefits such as appreciation and visiting whenever we like, but similar to Frank's teen tiring of Disney, our kids grew tired of traveling to the same location.

With the timeshares, we truly get a vacation, the place is cleaned, and maintained and we can travel to different locations. It truly is a relaxing vacation for me. And our college age kids ask to travel with us to Hawaii and NYC instead of rowdy Spring Break locales. Renting is also a risk and hassle and expensive in Hawaii. As we age, I envision using our timeshares more and finding a way to either dispose of the second home or 1033 exchange [corrected from 1098T] into a retirement area and eventually move into it and sell our main home for the homeowners exemption.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 17, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @frank808 @GregT  We own both a second home and timeshares. The story @frank808 described about the refrigerator flooding the house (or pipe break) is a fear we have and we are only a 4 hour drive away!
> 
> I agree that timeshares are an affordable surrogate for a second home - especially if you buy resale. What I hate about the second home is that  I  see many items which need attention, cleaning and maintenance when visiting. It's hard to relax because you know you must get these fixed during the short time you are there. Sure you can hire trades to fix, but that's a hassle because they are busy and not always available for small jobs in a resort location. Of course, there are benefits such as appreciation and visiting whenever we like, but similar to Frank's teen tiring of Disney, our kids grew tired of traveling to the same location.
> 
> With the timeshares, we truly get a vacation, the place is cleaned, and maintained and we can travel to different locations. It truly is a relaxing vacation for me. And our college age kids ask to travel with us to Hawaii and NYC instead of rowdy Spring Break locales. Renting is also a risk and hassle and expensive in Hawaii. As we age, I envision using our timeshares more and finding a way to either dispose of the second home or 1098T trade it into a retirement area and eventually move into it and sell our main home for the homeowners exemption.



I had to laugh, we experienced that very issue less than two months after our Hilton Head condo renovation was complete. One of the new pipe fittings that was installed to add a second sink in the master bath started leaking. I got a call from the HOA management company saying there was water pooling in the common area walkway outside our fourth floor unit. Fortunately, the leak flowed outside our condo and had no impact inside except for several holes that had to be cut in our brand new drywall to find the leak. Also our great general contractor still had a key, so he was able to rush over and turn off the water until the leak source could be identified. But the concern over maintenance (we are also 4 hours away) is what swayed us toward a condo rather than a single-family home. We have no exterior maintenance to worry about and since we did a complete reno, most everything inside is basically new, so hopefully those kinds of issues will be minimal for a few years, at least. The condo also has an ocean view and allows us to walk three-minutes and be on the beach, whereas a home in the same price range would have meant no better than a golf course view and a drive to the beach.

We actually bought our condo in preparation for retirement - not as a retirement home per se - but semi-retirement and retirement will give us many more opportunities to use it as a change of venue. The timeshares will still be for our "vacations", the condo is truly our second "home." With all of our spring, summer, and early fall trips cancelled-by-COVID, having the condo as a beach getaway this year has been priceless. So happy we made the decision to do it when we did. It's been a sanity-saver.

What is the 1098T trade you mentioned? My familiarity with the 1098T is the tuition statement we get from colleges our kids attended. When I Googled it, that's all that came up as well.


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## Seagila (Dec 17, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> What is the 1098T trade you mentioned?



May have meant to say "1031 exchange".


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks @Seagila Yes sorry 1031 exchange. Got too many things going on right now.  Will correct the prior post.


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## Fairwinds (Dec 17, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @frank808 @GregT  We own both a second home and timeshares. The story @frank808 described about the refrigerator flooding the house (or pipe break) is a fear we have and we are only a 4 hour drive away!
> 
> I agree that timeshares are an affordable surrogate for a second home - especially if you buy resale. What I hate about the second home is that  I  see many items which need attention, cleaning and maintenance when visiting. It's hard to relax because you know you must get these fixed during the short time you are there. Sure you can hire trades to fix, but that's a hassle because they are busy and not always available for small jobs in a resort location. Of course, there are benefits such as appreciation and visiting whenever we like, but similar to Frank's teen tiring of Disney, our kids grew tired of traveling to the same location.
> 
> With the timeshares, we truly get a vacation, the place is cleaned, and maintained and we can travel to different locations. It truly is a relaxing vacation for me. And our college age kids ask to travel with us to Hawaii and NYC instead of rowdy Spring Break locales. Renting is also a risk and hassle and expensive in Hawaii. As we age, I envision using our timeshares more and finding a way to either dispose of the second home or 1033 exchange [corrected from 1098T] into a retirement area and eventually move into it and sell our main home for the homeowners exemption.



We are on an extended stay at Royal Palms and just had a similar conversation. We use a lock off efficiency and got consecutive getaways with weekly cleaning and great amenities. We’ve talked about a condo for winter escapes but for ~$2500 I can get a month with no long distance ownership worries. Not as reliably available as ownership but ok by me. I plan on being very flexible with planning in retirement. I actually wouldn’t mind moving as long as it wasn’t every week.


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## Dean (Dec 17, 2020)

Fairwinds said:


> We are on an extended stay at Royal Palms and just had a similar conversation. We use a lock off efficiency and got consecutive getaways with weekly cleaning and great amenities. We’ve talked about a condo for winter escapes but for ~$2500 I can get a month with no long distance ownership worries. Not as reliably available as ownership but ok by me. I plan on being very flexible with planning in retirement. I actually wouldn’t mind moving as long as it wasn’t every week.


I've done the condo thing as well to give longer more consistent stays, to lock in retirement costs and to allow us to take the dog and while it worked out OK it wasn't great or what we expected.  Glad to closed on the sale the end of Dec last year.


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## KACTravels (Dec 19, 2020)

BigDawgTUG said:


> dansimms, you are pretty darn close on your numbers.  Before buying GRC, my blended rate on MFs for just over 10,000 DPs (comprising of both DPs and legacy week conversions) was about $0.62.  After buying 1BR quarter share at GRC, with St. Kitts as the qualifying week, blended rate of MFs on nearly 50,000 points fell to $0.35.


 So how exactly does your Quartershare work for you??  Do you get the 13 week stretch that you actually want and how about the actual unit (view, location) assigned, are they desirable ri guarantee?  For clarification, I am a Vistana owner and just started looking at the Marriott Forum for if a “blended program“ actually happens.


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## Lansdowne (Dec 19, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Yes, I know, it’s coming from the sales staff, but it was a unique angle for me.
> ...
> Now their offering the point equivalent of “quarter” shares at three new levels, 25,000, 50,000 and 75,000. PLUS, they were “giving” away points after incentives once you make a purchase. So many incentives that you would receive 110% value on the cost of your purchase. This deal is so sweet that they will only allow you to purchase the equivalent of the number of trust point you own (enrolled points from weeks don’t count) AND, there’s a price roll back to $10/point.



At Manor Club, we were offered:1) turn in your legacy deeded weeks worth minimal VCP for nothing except relief from maintenance fees and they pay the tranfer fees to gov it back to Marriott _provided_ 2) you buy an equivalent (rounded up to the nearest 250 points) number of DCPs at a price roll back of over $10/point.  The more you buy the better the roll back, with the best being ~$10/point. Their pitch was that the maintenance fees on trust points are lower than the maintenance fees on the deeded weeks which are allegedly based on square feet.  The savings was over the long run for your children inheriting the timeshare from you.



dougp26364 said:


> We were offered $300 or 45,000 BonVoy points to attended and the presentation lasted a little over 90 minutes.



We were offered $200 gift cards, 400 DCP or 40,000 Bonvoy points.  We took the cash.

Our presentation was slightly less than an hour.  They brought in the manager early on to explain the above to us and when we indicated that we probably were not interested because even if we wanted more points, why shouldn't we wait until the "merger" to try and get our Vistana weeks enrolled as part of the deal, he said he understood and let us go early.  We have 4 Vistana properties (2 KOR EOY & 2 DW EOY), 3 Legacy MVCI properties, and 3500 trust points. It "might" make sense to do something to "enroll" all of them in the merged program to get the increased status of such a portfolio.

We did not bother with the encore package presentation as we still have one to use from 2019.  We also have a small promo package!  We are saving those for later next year when they might be rolling out the "merger."


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## BigDawgTUG (Dec 19, 2020)

KACTravels said:


> Do how exactly does your Quartershare work for you??  Do you get the 13 week stretch that you actually want and how about the actual unit (view, location) assigned, are they desirable ri guarantee?  For clarification, I am a Vistana owner and just started looking at the Marriott Forum for if a “blended program“ actually happens.


The quarter share defaults to one week every four weeks, and the designated weeks rotate every year, so, for example, year 1, you get weeks 1, 5, 9 . . . , year 2 you get weeks 2, 6, 10 . .. and so on.  You can then deposit, trade like any other week.  I do not have any experience in how easy it is to get the weeks you want as so far I have only converted to Destination Points.


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## frank808 (Dec 19, 2020)

KACTravels said:


> Do how exactly does your Quartershare work for you?? Do you get the 13 week stretch that you actually want and how about the actual unit (view, location) assigned, are they desirable ri guarantee? For clarification, I am a Vistana owner and just started looking at the Marriott Forum for if a “blended program“ actually happens.


Not BigDawg but the quartershare unit you own has a unit#. That is the actual unit you are assigned every 4th week. It is not a floating unit but actually assigned when you buy your quartershare.

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## jeepie (Dec 19, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Yes, we own 43 marriott weeks and 5k DC points. It equates to over 100k DC points annually.
> 
> The 2br's get locked off every year into a studio and 1 bedroom for deposit to II. Most of the quarter shares weeks I convert to DC points (around 20-23 weeks are turned into DC points annually[). That leaves me with about 37-40 weeks a year. Yes, we use all the weeks for trading into MKO every year. We were able to enroll our weeks into the DC program 2 years ago. I have rented my DC points to a broker for the past 2 years. It has been a hassle free experience to transfer all the points into his account. Now 2021 is looking to be a year where I will have a surplus of 70k DC points to rent.
> 
> ...


Frank808, are you willing to share the broker’s name and/or rental price you have been getting? Feel free to pm me if more comfortable. Thanks!


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## frank808 (Dec 19, 2020)

jeepie said:


> Frank808, are you willing to share the broker’s name and/or rental price you have been getting? Feel free to pm me if more comfortable. Thanks!


Not to good this year and coming year for DC point rentals. Actually havent rented any 2021 points yet and have a glut of 2020. His name is tim. rsvp@HeavenlyVillageCondos.com

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## TimGolobic (Dec 19, 2020)

Good timing on following Frank's post. I am the Tim in question. I counsel a lot of prospective buyers at Grand Residence, as well as manage rental weeks and points for nearly 1/3 of the property. Like Frank, I am also an owner at GRC (26 weeks in a 2 BR). We are the red-headed stepchild of the MVC system; I believe the only quarter-share fractional ownership. You own a specific unit. And as mentioned already, that is 1 week every 4 weeks, and that shifts one week each year, so over a 4-year period you cover the entire 52 weeks. 

(quick history: this property was developed by American Ski Company. They went bankrupt. MVC made a deal and they manage the property. The Grand Residence was going to be a new brand, but fell apart in the financial crisis. There is one other GRC location in London. The plans Florida and Hawaii proposed locations got scrapped.)

This is indeed the best ownership if you are looking for a ton of points. A Studio averages to 24k points each year, a 1 BR is 32k, 2 BR is 50k and a 3 BR around 64k). That is if you elect all 13 of your weeks for points. Some years you'll get more, some years less. Depends on the rotation with holidays, etc. You can also keep specific weeks for your personal use, or trade with Interval.

You can buy a 2 BR on resale for less than $100k. But MVC doesn't allow resales to be immediately eligible for Points; they need to get their piece of the pie. Normally they want you to buy an extra 5k points at retail price, approx $70k. But they are always offering better specials. 

Even if your total cost was $150k, that's just $3 per point on a 2 BR unit. And our MF's are much less, around 35 cents per point. Though you will pay the regular MF rate on the additional 5k purchase.


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## MICROZE (Dec 19, 2020)

Lansdowne said:


> At Manor Club, we were offered:1) turn in your legacy deeded weeks worth minimal VCP for nothing except relief from maintenance fees and they pay the tranfer fees to gov it back to Marriott _provided_ 2) you buy an equivalent (rounded up to the nearest 250 points) number of DCPs at a price roll back of over $10/point.  The more you buy the better the roll back, with the best being ~$10/point. Their pitch was that the maintenance fees on trust points are lower than the maintenance fees on the deeded weeks which are allegedly based on square feet.  The savings was over the long run for your children inheriting the timeshare from you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We had a dilemma too as to when to "pull the trigger".

Pre-Merger: Acquire status upfront and get "grandfathered" in.
Post-Merger: The points required is increased for the same status making it harder to gain status.
Have seen Marriott do this a few times [DCP-Program, Bonvoy-Program] in the last decade, whereby they grandfathered in prior-status raising the criteria to make the same status.

This is why we enrolled our resale Vistana [3 x WKV 2BR-PLAT] weeks last Dec to go from 3-Star to 5-Star Elite. Had to purchase 95700-SO Aventuras-EOY for under $20K.
Wife gets Bonvoy-Platinum as long as we own our-TS.

This is also why we added a few DCP last Nov [Hybrid: WK + DCP] to get to Chairman's. Worked out to about $6.50/DCP.
I get Bonvoy-Titanium as long as we own our TS.

It's a gamble we took based on Marriott historically "_honoring existing status_" while "_raising the threshold_" to make the same status.
Waiting to see what combined status [Chairman's + 5-Star] means.


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## Ssobey (Jun 9, 2021)

I would love to know more about how you sold yours? Did you have a realtor?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 9, 2021)

Ssobey said:


> I would love to know more about how you sold yours? Did you have a realtor?


You may want to quote the post you are replying to, this is a pretty big thread and we don't necessarily know who you are asking this question to.


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## MikeM132 (Jun 14, 2021)

Dean said:


> Probably the best benefit is that it has forced us to vacation and travel on a routine basis, something we had not done previously and I suspect would not done as well or consistently without the timeshares as we have with them.


This is exactly why we bought a timeshare. I can't be bothered looking at the detailed economics. It's NOT a good deal. I already know that. It is a forced vacation in a nice location in a consistently nice place. I don't need or want the stress of being first in line for reservations so I don't need any special Marriott Timeshare status. I've done fine for a long time. It's hard enough to coordinate plane tickets with goofy check-in dates sometimes. A premium timeshare is like a golf country club. A total ripoff when you analyze it, so don't.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 14, 2021)

MikeM132 said:


> This is exactly why we bought a timeshare. I can't be bothered looking at the detailed economics. It's NOT a good deal. I already know that. It is a forced vacation in a nice location in a consistently nice place. I don't need or want the stress of being first in line for reservations so I don't need any special Marriott Timeshare status. I've done fine for a long time. It's hard enough to coordinate plane tickets with goofy check-in dates sometimes. A premium timeshare is like a golf country club. A total ripoff when you analyze it, so don't.



I look at it this way. You can drive a Chevy, Cadillac, or a Maserati. They’ll all get you there, just in more or less style and comfort


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## Dean (Jun 14, 2021)

MikeM132 said:


> This is exactly why we bought a timeshare. I can't be bothered looking at the detailed economics. It's NOT a good deal. I already know that. It is a forced vacation in a nice location in a consistently nice place. I don't need or want the stress of being first in line for reservations so I don't need any special Marriott Timeshare status. I've done fine for a long time. It's hard enough to coordinate plane tickets with goofy check-in dates sometimes. A premium timeshare is like a golf country club. A total ripoff when you analyze it, so don't.


I believe there are several factors but one should at least pay attention to the economics.  If it doesn't at least make financial sense one should just rent which is a lot less stressful in many ways than owning.  If one can't learn the rules and be proactive, they probably shouldn't be in timeshare world also.  But it also doesn't have to be some major windfall to make sense, just a reasonable balance.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 14, 2021)

MikeM132 said:


> This is exactly why we bought a timeshare. I can't be bothered looking at the detailed economics. It's NOT a good deal. I already know that. It is a forced vacation in a nice location in a consistently nice place. I don't need or want the stress of being first in line for reservations so I don't need any special Marriott Timeshare status. I've done fine for a long time. It's hard enough to coordinate plane tickets with goofy check-in dates sometimes. A premium timeshare is like a golf country club. A total ripoff when you analyze it, so don't.


I don't why some accept this as automatically true when in fact a resale TS can be good economics in certain cases, especially high demand locations where you need a 2 or 3 bdrm unit.  If you bought resale at such a place your return on your investment can be accomplished over 5-10 years. And the longer you own the better your ROI can be. I think this still can be true for high-end, high demand locations if you need 2/3bdrms and your use horizon is 7+ years.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 14, 2021)

I was looking at my original post and realized, it’s the second quarter of the year. The salesman said we’d have a fully integrated system about now.

Gee, I guess he was wrong! LOL


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