# Belaire Golf Resort & Spa



## karenedith

I have been a member of TUG for many years, have never had a reason to post on the forums prior to this issue and  purchased at The Belaire in December 2006.  I have been emailed by a few other owners, asking about our visit to PV last week.
 On our last day there, we met with Carlos (Sales Manager) and their engineer. They answered the bulk of our questions, i.e. why is the construction not commencing - "they are on their 3rd drilling process which tells them how far down they need to go to hit solid earth and they have finally hit it at 50 metres which means they can now proceed" The engineer showed us his binder with engineered drawings, timelines, etc. (from Idom) First tower should be ready for occupancy March, 2009. Our second most important question was the "Registry Collection" enrollment. They gave us a copy of a letter from RC "proudly announcing" that the Belaire is "the new affiliation of Belaire Golf Resort & Spa to its exclusive portfolio of affiliated resorts."
Letter is signed by Miguel A. Loya, Business Development Manager, The Registry Collection Mexico north Pacific. 
We have not called RC to verify this letter.
Because there is no product to bank into RC, they have purchased 400 weeks so that we can begin to trade in Jan/08. I questioned the feasibility of only 400 weeks with 550 members and was told that they would be "topping up" the 400 weeks everytime one is used; therefore, always having an inventory of 400 weeks. Again, we have not verified this with RC.
While we were in PV, they held a grand opening for their restaurant "Bagotti". Money was spent on lots of entertainment, wine & champagne and a little was spent on food. The restaurant is now open - we viewed the kitchen and met the chefs. One other owner told me that the pictures of that night were in the local newspaper. Antonio's father was at the opening, along with many Mexicans., and a small handful of owners. 
At one point during our week in PV we were totally negative on the whole project but after meeting with Carlos Gadea and the engineer, we felt 80% okay with it all. The 20% doubt is because of lack of product.
Timeshare sales in PV are so cut throat that we had a difficult time separating lies from truths. Because my husband and I are honest (and have to be in our professions), we like to assume honesty from others. The salespeople at the Belaire are a combination of not knowing the details and of telling you just what you want to hear. This holds true for the folks at the Grand Mayan. We were staying there for the week and were approached by their sales manager, telling us that he could help us out of our bad investment. After a short minute of feeling that he had a genuine interest in us, we soon discovered that his goal was to sell us a $200,000 fractional ownership. For some reason(s) the Mayan resorts and the Belaire are at each other's throats.
We're anxious to see how the project looks in about 2 months.


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## judy23

thank you for this information as we bought at the Belaire last feb. I think the reason why they are at odds with the Grand Mayan is because several owners (including us) traded in the Grand Myan for the Belaire and they are getting more and more all the time. Judy23


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## judy23

we are also going to PV next week for 5 weeks. One of our weeks is at the Grand Mayan. The other weeks we are at Flaming'os and Paradise Village which we are owners. We will definetly visit the Belaire and post an update. Judy23


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## R & B

*belaire*

We bought an exit package at the Belaire for $3000 last January. That entitled us to buy a 1 bedroom in 18 months at the same price they were charging in 2007. The 6 weeks we were supposed to use were for facilities that were through II. We were a little worried when we arrived home so we called II and asked them about these places and the belaire and they said that they never heard of them and of some of these places. We called Visa and told them what had happened and they got our $3000 back. We were also told that the 1st 400 people that bought didn't have to pay any maintenance fee for the duration of their contract. That's the 1st thing that made bells go off in my head. So I'm not sure whats going on now - either I did well getting out now or I can kick myself in 20 years if all they were saying is true. Good luck to you though. 
also a couple of my friends bought there and were told totally different prices and information that i was told and they were able to get out through Profecta.


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## needavacation

*Belaire*

I fell for Belaire too.  Thank God that we only purchased 10 years instead of 100.  I am so tired of hearing Dorato's broken promises every month.  It is January 2008 and they still don't have an exhange company.  All I can do is pray that this isn't a scam.


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## steve_esko

*Belaire*

I did call RC today, the Indianapolis office as they had a toll free as I was not able to get through to the Mexican office.  They were able to tell me that they were still in negotiation with Belaire but a deal had not been finalized yet.
I also went to the American Resort Development Association (ARDA) website and Belaire Golf Resort & Spa is a registered member – if that means anything.
If & when they finalize the deal with RC that still leaves you with nothing to trade through them until Belaire is ready to accept customers.  I am wondering what happens to the 2008 weeks we were promised that we could use as of Jan. 2008 considering the may not be done with construction until 2009.  The last email we received from Carlos Gadea he stated it should be ready by Sept. 2008.  Each reply from him the date has been set back.


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## mplswjr

*We rescinded*

We purchased the Belaire offering last January (07), and with the help of PROFECO, we successfully rescinded after three days of careful review of the documents.  The rescission was very arduous, requiring a very clear mindset despite the derisive and somewhat threatening reaction of the sales staff.

Later, we spoke with an acquaintance who has a street location offering timeshare presentations downtown.  His comment was that the Belaire offering "is too good to be true".  IMHO he is absolutely correct.  We're going back to PV soon, and are looking forward to getting another "street update".


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## brucecz

Again a Bellaire string sems to be  again loaded with newbie posters and one  posteer who sent us a PM shorty after a moderator stopped another Bellaire string on December 19, 2007.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52034 

I again find this fact interesting if lighting has seemingly struck twince in the same manner on this string ?

I would have to agree with the last poster based our experiances and other long time Tuggers posting on that string.

Several times very similar things were said on that other string quote "that  the Belaire offering "is too good to be true". IMHO he is absolutely correct. " Unquote.

Please note that that string I  pointed out if the Bellaire Club was sisloved that the members were to recive all the Clubs assets EXCEPT for the LAND And BUILDINGS. So the professed claims of security for the members is negated by that clause that the supporters do not even attemp to dispute.

Interesting that one of the posters mentions a supposed  Mayan Palace fued in light of that Marcos of the Bellaire admitted to being one of the sales trainers at the Mayan Palace group.


Could it be that some of these newbie posters  like some of those newbie posters in that first Bellaire string have a IP address coming from the Puerto Vallatra area like one of the Tug moderators found that they did in that first string? I would not bet against that the same thing might be happening again.

Bruce


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## jcmoor

We just recently purchased a package with Belaire Resorts this past Jan. 3, '08. Construction was in progress and we were informed that a Sept. '09 date for completion was projected. If this is not a legitimate deal, the people we spoke with and the help they provided us was certainly dramatized to the enth degree. We have yet to hear from them and yes, phone numbers have been unsuccessful. We too certainly want to believe that this Emerald Suite package we purchased will become our vacation dream spot for many years to come.


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## KarenLK

I am in PV and met a friend at the pool here who visited <belaire this week and there is still no building going on, except for a restaurant, yet they claim they will finish the 200 or so units in one year!!


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## brucecz

Below I am quoting myself from a post I made on November 15, 2007 on another Bellaire string  posted on Tug.

Quote " We rescinded on a Bellaire Club trial package (and not a Full Club ownership) for 10 weeks mainly for the following reason the third day after signing and after having paid in full for slightly under $6,000 for 10 weeks usage at the Belaire or to the supposedly other high end resorts in that registry.

The formal name on our contract was “Contract of Purchase-Presale of a Membership entered by World Resorts Marketing Enterprises S.de R.L. de C.V. on Behalf of Belaire Golf & Spa and:

Later we noticed in reading over our paperwork this item 
Quote “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club 

Excuse me but IMHO the buildings and land IMHO would be about 95% of the assets inherit value and the contents etc as a worsr case situation might require a special assessment to get rid of them." Unquote

I am no legal eagle but Articale 5.2 IMO SHOUTS AT ME that  Club members can exspect NO Monatary return from "THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort" if the "Club" is dissloved as Articale 5.2 plainly states.  

So even if the resort is bulit the Club Members  according to Articale 5.2 will not get any money if the club is dissloved from any sale of "THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort ".  

That clause makes it IMHO a very one sided contract that seemingly does not do the Club members any favors or seemingly offers real property rights protection.


Bruce


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## mplswjr

*Street Report*

We're back in PV, and have obtained an updated "street report" on Belaire.
Still no real construction, only dirt being pushed back and forth.

Glad we got out....hope no one loses their money.

mplswjr


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## pammex

Okay give me some specifics where the supposed Belair is supposed to be, and how I find an OPC Streetsalesperson to take us on a presentation.  We are scheduled to be in Marina at Casa Velas for one week then Club Velas the next week. ( Feb 24-March 9, 2008) We will go to the presentaion, check it out and give you all an update of what they are telling buyers now and if any progress has been made etc.  Then maybe you will have to pursue Profeco in Mexico for help in dealing with this issue.


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## mplswjr

*location*

Belaire is located at the far north end of the Marina area, not far from where the city Marina buses make the turn around to travel south along the row of resorts.  It is on the ocean side, but does not have ocean front property.

mplswjr


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## brucecz

I remember that the Bellarie had  said they had leased some Ocean Front property but we  did not see any type information or documemtation in any of the paperwork about that lease.

Bruce  



mplswjr said:


> Belaire is located at the far north end of the Marina area, not far from where the city Marina buses make the turn around to travel south along the row of resorts.  It is on the ocean side, but does not have ocean front property.
> 
> mplswjr


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## pammex

ok we are driving so we will have a car to find it, and I'll try to find a timeshare salesperson to take us on presentation and see what they have to say to prospective biuyers now etc.  Also will let you know and hopefully take pics of any progress.


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## mplswjr

*Another update*

We drove past Belaire this morning.  The model unit and restaurant appear to be finished with a shallow hole dug nearby which looks like the potential location for further development.  There were a few pieces of construction machinery in and around the hole, but no workers and no sign of recent activity.

I'm still extremely skeptical about the reality for the future of Belaire, but I was wrong once.

mplswjr


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## brucecz

If there is one main building were they have the two bedroom model on the second floor and the first floor is were we  had breastfast and attended the presentation in another first floor area.

If we are talking about the same building that building was in place last September.

It sounds like the same equitment that was there last September and there was a little dirt moved in a few piles. 

But they did have somegolf carts. We were told that every owner  was supposed to have there own private golf cart for the week. 

Even if they only built 100 units that would be a lot of golf cart problems in a small area.

Bruce



mplswjr said:


> We drove past Belaire this morning.  The model unit and restaurant appear to be finished with a shallow hole dug nearby which looks like the potential location for further development.  There were a few pieces of construction machinery in and around the hole, but no workers and no sign of recent activity.
> 
> I'm still extremely skeptical about the reality for the future of Belaire, but I was wrong once.
> 
> mplswjr


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## needavacation

I'm just venting here.  This is ridiculous.  The Mexican government should regulate their timeshare business.  They should not allow companies to take people's money.  

I'm a "newbie" to this group, hello Bruce.  I found this website while investigating Belaire.  I browse the internet to see if there are any scams reported.  There's a newpaper article from Jan. 07 discussing Belaire's ribbon cutting ceremony with the mayor or some official, which made me feel better about this.  But, since they keep changing the date and I did not receive exchange documents, I am very concerned again. 

Did anyone ask them about doing an exchange this year?


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## steve_esko

*Belaire*

Initially we were told by Carlos Gadea to contact The Registry Collection for exchange information which I did.  I was informed that Belaire was in negotiation with them but nothing had been finalized yet.  Later he told me I could request my reservation through member services on Belaire’s website.  We have attempted this a number of times but have yet to receive any conformation back or even an indication that they received our request.  Numerous phone calls to Carlos with promises of a return call have been futile as we never received any calls back.  Email’s sent to him sometimes are replied to with vague assures.  It appears that they will not be close to any projected completion date and are trying to pacify us as best they can.  I can understand that delays can happen but they need to be upfront and honest with those who have purchased from them and any other prospective buyers.


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## bltfam

We also will be in PV in March we will be there 13-20. I will also check out the "resort" and let you all know what i find out. We will be staying at the Velas Vallarta. From the directions explained its close by to where we are staying. I am coping the info down now and putting it with my passports. Do you think we can get a petition started stating we want the goverment to get involved and to give us answers Tourism is there way of life If there is enough of an uproar maybe someone will step in and do something. 
Anyone else in PV that week?


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## sugarbear

*belaire*



judy23 said:


> we are also going to PV next week for 5 weeks. One of our weeks is at the Grand Mayan. The other weeks we are at Flaming'os and Paradise Village which we are owners. We will definetly visit the Belaire and post an update. Judy23


What happened when you visited the Belaire?  Any construction?


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## Loggie

I was at the Belaire a couple of days ago.  What I understand is that the entire building with the restaurant in it will be torn down for the two towers to go in.  There is NO construction going on and the only thing that they are doing is supposedly digging a hole for a retaining wall.

They have sold I believe 568 memberships at least that is what the sign says.  We were offered 2 weeks with an accellerated 2 weeks for $44,000.  Our friends went and they were offered 2 weeks for $10,000.  We were offered no maintenance for life and we would have to pay $60 per person per day all inclusive.  We were told that golf was 1/2 price, also that everyone would have a golf cart.  I do not understand where they were going to put 102 golf carts. 

We were told that completion would be in April 2009.  Our friends were told that it would be done in eighteen months.

Personally, I DO NOT know why ANYONE would buy there ... you are located right next door to the airport.  

For those taking the presentation they are paying $400.00  Taxi there and taxi back


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## Virtualogic

*Belaire Sales Pitch*

I need some input here - the following is the pitch (seems way to good to be true) - 

 . . . residence clubs are the fastest growing segment of the vacation marketplace.  All of the big companies (Marriott, Ritz-Carlton, Hilton, etc) are trying to get into this market because the baby boomers are buying them up as fast as they can be built.  These are deeded properties not just a membership lease like a timeshare property.

I am selling to two types of people, those that actually want to buy into the vacation club and those who want to invest and turn their units over once the building is complete. This second category is for a very limited time now as we are breaking ground and trying to bringing in pre-construction capital.  We will buy the investment unit back from you, you will not have to go find someone to buy it from you.  This is essentially a great way for us to get enough money to complete the building without having to get a loan which are at much higher rates in Mexico.   We have a $375M bond guaranteeing the completion of construction.

Essentially the way the pre-construction deal works is that we are selling units now at half price since this is pre-construction and people can’t actually use the units until they are complete.  When it is done we will essentially be doubling the price so the way the contract is written we (the builder) will buy the unit back from you upon completion at 75% of the then going rate.  Since the then going rate will be double today’s price, 75% of that would give you a 150% return.  However, the smallest unit is one week in an Executive Suite which is $100K . . . 

Construction is expected to take about 18 months and we will buy the units back at 24 months.  I cannot find any return anywhere that will give you that kind of payback.

Thoughts???


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## pammex

You can contact Profeco in Mexico to maybe help you with this issue.  They have been known in past to help people with comsumer complaints in Mexico, but it is a timely and probably frustrating experience.  

Due in PV in 9 days so I'll see what i sup at Belair and what they are saying now and then let you all know.


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## Karen G

Virtualogic said:


> I need some input here - the following is the pitch (seems way to good to be true) -


If it seems too good to be true, it probably is false.  Don't fall for it.

If you did fall for it and you are within your five-day right of recission, rescind the contract.  Read the information about Mexico right-of-recission at the top of the Mexico forum.


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## GS&CR

*Belaire*

Just wondering if anyone that is a owning at Belaire...has Belaire offered to
put you up somewhere else for the 2008 year in PV?   If so which resort and was there a cost to you?  

Thanks


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## Archie583

*Belaire*

We purchased at Belaire and we told them that we found a Condo in the marina for two thousand dollars for four weeks.  We paid for the condo and Belaire reimbursed us the two thousand dollars by crediting our credit card. So far Belaire has treated us very good.

Henry and Joyce


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## jeanbean

I have requested a reservation for Oct. of this year, and they are suppose to be sending me a list of resorts comparable to Belaire that I can reserve for my 2008 use year. I'm skeptical, but we'll see.

Jeanbean


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## jeanbean

Maybe there is hope for all of us. Thanks for the information.

Jeanbean


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## GS&CR

*Belaire*

Thanks for the info!  Lets keep our fingers crossed!  I have requested for time in PV for March lets see what they come back with!  

Thanks


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## SteveHCMM

GS&CR said:


> Thanks for the info!  Lets keep our fingers crossed!  I have requested for time in PV for March lets see what they come back with!
> 
> Thanks



How did you go about requesting the time?


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## Dutch43

We just came from Puerto Vallarta and were treated well by Belaire. They are working on the two towers. Part of the delay was explained that they switched construction companies. They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!! We met the person heading it up and working with Belaire. We are anxious to see the final product. We know it will be awesome! This is just the start of something big!

Thank you Antonio, Carlos and Niko!
Ed and Phyllis


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## brucecz

What did you mean by Quote "They are working on the two towers. " Unquote?    What has acually been  done in regards of construction?  On what date did they hire the new company? When did the new company start the physical construction work of rerecting the "Two Towers"  and how far are they? Thanks for the update.


I do find it very interesting after all these months that with all of the many "Vacation type " projects that exist  in there no companies in the PV area or in all of Mexico that were  deemed not  capable enough of doing this "Project".

Which type of package did you puchase?

I do find it interresting that another new person first post on Tug is again about the Belaire.  Did the Belaire happen to mention Tug  and that is how you found this string.


Bruce 



Dutch43 said:


> We just came from Puerto Vallarta and were treated well by Belaire. They are working on the two towers. Part of the delay was explained that they switched construction companies. They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!! We met the person heading it up and working with Belaire. We are anxious to see the final product. We know it will be awesome! This is just the start of something big!
> 
> Thank you Antonio, Carlos and Niko!
> Ed and Phyllis


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## needavacation

I agree with Bruce.  That dude joined on the same day he posted with his praises of Belaire.  

Ed and Phyllis, I'm glad that they treated you so great because they have given me nothing but bad customer service since they received our money.  All I want is a confirmation for my exchange request.  But, your people (I'm sure that you must be Carlos) will not return my emails.  You people need to be honest.  Tell us the truth.  The Mexican government need to make you give us our money back.  If you don't start booking vacations for us you will get some free advertisement and won't have to pay $400 to get people to come to your presentations.  You'll be on 20/20 or dateline. You won't get another member from America.  Don't think about coming after me.  One of my best friends work for the FBI and he is right next to me reading this.


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## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> We just came from Puerto Vallarta and were treated well by Belaire. They are working on the two towers. Part of the delay was explained that they switched construction companies. They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!! We met the person heading it up and working with Belaire. We are anxious to see the final product. We know it will be awesome! This is just the start of something big!
> 
> Thank you Antonio, Carlos and Niko!
> Ed and Phyllis



Please post some pictures showing the erection progress that you said was now being made on building of two the of towers that you mentioned in your email. 

 If you do not have any pictures and seeing that you were "treated well by Belaire" I am sure either Antonio, Carlos and Niko would be :whoopie: happy to post some pictures on this string of the progress made. 

 This might assure the people who have posted that they have bought at the Belaire that progress had been made as stated as per your first posting. 

Thanks in advance for your cooperation in getting those construction progress pictures posted on this string asap. 

Bruce


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## Dutch43

We found TUG 4 months when we were exploring some new things to do in PV. We have owned at Belaire since Jan. '07. We own 4 weeks per year in a 3 bedroom. We had no problem getting 2 weeks in a very nice condo on the beach in the Marina area that Belaire found for us. We were there the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '08. Karla did a very good job of putting this together for us.We have had superb service from everybody at Belaire.
My first post was on the day we joined. I got tired of the negative comments and wanted to let people know that Belaire is accomadating their members. Keep up the good work Belaire.

Ed and Phyllis

PS My name is not Carlos


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## SteveHCMM

GS&CR said:


> Thanks for the info!  Lets keep our fingers crossed!  I have requested for time in PV for March lets see what they come back with!
> 
> Thanks





jeanbean said:


> I have requested a reservation for Oct. of this year, and they are suppose to be sending me a list of resorts comparable to Belaire that I can reserve for my 2008 use year. I'm skeptical, but we'll see.
> 
> Jeanbean



GS&CR, Jeanbean,

Have either of you heard anything positive from Belaire regarding your requests?


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## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> We found TUG 4 months when we were exploring some new things to do in PV. We have owned at Belaire since Jan. '07. We own 4 weeks per year in a 3 bedroom. We had no problem getting 2 weeks in a very nice condo on the beach in the Marina area that Belaire found for us. We were there the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '08. Karla did a very good job of putting this together for us.We have had superb service from everybody at Belaire.
> My first post was on the day we joined. I got tired of the negative comments and wanted to let people know that Belaire is accomadating their members. Keep up the good work Belaire.
> 
> Ed and Phyllis
> 
> PS My name is not Carlos



Gee Ed, did someone call you or say you were Carlos on this string? Really, I missed it if someone did.  Please direct everyone to the post number in this string were someone called you Carlos.

I am surprised that you did not post when you first found Tug to let everyone know what a great deal  and treatment that you  have received.

Are right now  in Puerto Vallarta or at home?

So can we assume that you forgot to  post pictures of the consrtuction erection progress that  up said was going on? Quoting again "They are working on the two towers." Unquote.

So again I am requesting that you please post those pictures of the the progress that you alluded to in your first posting.


If you do not have any pictures to post then if you do mind me  quoting you 
Quote "We have had superb service from everybody at Belaire.  My first post was on the day we joined. I got tired of the negative comments and wanted to let people know that Belaire is accomadating their members. Keep up the good work Belaire." Unquote

Then I am sure the Bellaire staff if requested by you will be happy to send progress pictures immediately to you to post and this string to reasure all of the other owners who seem not to enjoy the  "Superb Service" you claim to.
As per your post the Bellaire will  be "accomadating " your request for pictures immediately.


I doubt that they will themselves after they got caught red handed on the other string posing :rofl: :rofl: as buyers. Could that have been Carlos doing those postings coming from Puerto Vallarta?

What is your response to their  lack of honesty and  ethics to them getting caught red handed  lying ?

 The person that claimed to be a buyer from California posted after he was exposed said months ago that when he returned home he would post from California. He has not posted under the same name.

Are you now in Puerto Vallarta or at home? Ifin PV you could send some  right up to date pictures of that progress. Thanks again for the update progress.

Bruce


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## Dutch43

Bruce check #35.  "I'm sure that you must be Carlos". As I stated we were in PV the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '07. All I can do is tell you how good our requests have been handled. I have no reason to bad mouth the folks at Belaire. I did not take any pictures of the progress.  

Ed


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## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> Bruce check #35.  "I'm sure that you must be Carlos". As I stated we were in PV the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '07. All I can do is tell you how good our requests have been handled. I have no reason to bad mouth the folks at Belaire. I did not take any pictures of the progress.
> 
> Ed




Well most that  said they bought there posted pretty much opposite of what you posted in regards to the way they feel they have been treated lately. 

Seeing you knew about the first string about the Bellaire I am very surprized that you did not take pictures of the Towers constuction progress. 

You were the one that  choose to post about the progress but did not take pictures as proof. That does not help to convince that  real  construction progress is finally being made after about one year of selling.

I do understand those other peoples concerns.  If you read why  some cancelled their contacts  with good reason after reading the  one sided legal terms of that contract that I am so very gald that I recinded.

I note you want debate that someone called Carlos but you  say that do not have any pictures or offer to send for them to prove your point.

If there is really progress then it is in the Bellaires best interest for them to get those pictures posted here. But how high were the Towers when you are there.

Your silence of the Bellaires tactics and  the lack of ethics by the Bellaire that have been apparent especially on the first string  may leave some to doubt your agenda.

I do not thankfully have any money tied up but as per one of my postings on that  first  Bellarire string I posted how after I recinded they lied  jerked us around and wasted quite a few hours of our time.

If you choose to ingnore  or post about all of the other posters who posted about all of their problems with the Bellaire it does not help your creditabilty to seemingly be a Bellaire   cheerleader.

Your posts IMHO are unbalanced in your seemingly  blind support and lack proof of the progress that you said has been made.

You have skirted giving any real answers to our questions.

Bruce


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## needavacation

Ed,

I called you Carlos and until the rest of us receive the same treatment and vacations that you received, I will keep calling you Carlos.  This is not rocket science.  Out of all of the members posting on this board, you are the only one to receive emails, phone calls, trips and accommodations from Belaire.  This is bogus, sounds like Carlos.

Since Belaire is treating you so great, please ask them to accommodate the rest of us.  We would greatly appreciate it.  I promise you that I will stop calling you Carlos if you can get them to give me vacation for this year.


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## GS&CR

*Belaire*

We e-mailed Belaire's member service e-mail.......after they never answered me I called there and talked to someone named Alexis. (Alexis is now the 6th
different person that we have had contact with they don't seem to keep people there)  She did e-mail us back with 5 different places that we could stay at there(but with a cost to us).  Now at the time of purchase we were told that if the place was not ready by the time we were coming back that Belaire would cover the cost which we did tell them that we were coming back in 2008 (that is not happening Belaire is not covering the cost) We purchase in Jan 07.  We are going to PV on March 8 but we are not going with what Belaire offered.  We are going on a package deal with a travel agent.  We are planning on going to see the Resort and ask questions and see what kind of run around they will give us.  Please if any of you have questions you would like us to ask.   Please give them to us and we will ask!
We are trying very hard to beleive in this place....but.


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## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> Bruce check #35.  "I'm sure that you must be Carlos". As I stated we were in PV the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '07. All I can do is tell you how good our requests have been handled. I have no reason to bad mouth the folks at Belaire. I did not take any pictures of the progress.
> 
> Ed




Did the Belaire send you the progress pictures we asked for?   What should we assume if you can not get the pictures of the progress that you posted about  the Belaire by this Friday?  Thanks in advance Dutch for posting those construction progress pictures by or before this Friday.

Bruce


----------



## washboy

Hello All,  I am a new poster to this string and my name is not "Carlos", at least not today...  Just a quick bit of history.  My wife and I are experienced presentation attendees.  We spend several weeks a year in PV and we try to enjoy a presentation or two each week.  We were in PV last December and had the opportunity to meet Antonio and his staff.  Antonio attempted to prove to us that he was worth millions and that he would save us millions "by giving us free tax advice".  Well Antonio, my wife made the determination that if we take your "advice" we would end up in prison.... where you Sir should be!  is that why you are in PV and not the USA right now?  Okay back to the story.... from the moment we got our $450 cash and walked away, we agreed that this deal was a SCAM!  when we returned to the US, we began to research Belaire and found this string... and the rest is history.  I check back on this string every month or so to see if there has been any new developments, but not to my surprise there has been none.  I find it funny however that people keep investing in this project.  Actually I take that back, it is sad.  I know that folks who read this have probably already invested money, however my advise to those of you that just got off the plane and wanted to check up on your new investment... CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY NOW AND CANCEL THE TRANSACTION!  

Enough said, we will be back in PV in a month and I am thinking up something special for Carlos and Staff.....  and idea's?

JT


----------



## brucecz

washboy said:


> Hello All,  I am a new poster to this string and my name is not "Carlos", at least not today...  Just a quick bit of history.  My wife and I are experienced presentation attendees.  We spend several weeks a year in PV and we try to enjoy a presentation or two each week.  We were in PV last December and had the opportunity to meet Antonio and his staff.  Antonio attempted to prove to us that he was worth millions and that he would save us millions "by giving us free tax advice".  Well Antonio, my wife made the determination that if we take your "advice" we would end up in prison.... where you Sir should be!  is that why you are in PV and not the USA right now?  Okay back to the story.... from the moment we got our $450 cash and walked away, we agreed that this deal was a SCAM!  when we returned to the US, we began to research Belaire and found this string... and the rest is history.  I check back on this string every month or so to see if there has been any new developments, but not to my surprise there has been none.  I find it funny however that people keep investing in this project.  Actually I take that back, it is sad.  I know that folks who read this have probably already invested money, however my advise to those of you that just got off the plane and wanted to check up on your new investment... CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY NOW AND CANCEL THE TRANSACTION!
> 
> Enough said, we will be back in PV in a month and I am thinking up something special for Carlos and Staff.....  and idea's?
> 
> JT




Welcome.

Interesting.  Was Marcos still with Bellaire Last December?  

Or maybe Dutch43 could tell us if Marcos was still there even if Dutch43 can  not get the Belaire to post some progress pictues to back up what Dutch43 posted about the progress.

I think they could afford it.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> Bruce check #35.  "I'm sure that you must be Carlos". As I stated we were in PV the 3rd and 4th week of Jan. '07. All I can do is tell you how good our requests have been handled. I have no reason to bad mouth the folks at Belaire. I did not take any pictures of the progress.
> 
> Ed



Dutch 43, it has been a week since we requested some pictures and you have not posted any progress pictures. Why is that?


Also it is almost going on a full 6 months after we were told directly by Marcos that they were very soon in less than a month be set up with the Registry Collectiom and  6 months later that has STILL has not happened as of today.

The Bellaire is now saying they now exchanging  agreements with  of TPI but the Tug Site TPI says rep says they are not joined in any way with the Bellaire.

They said they do not makes exchanges  with places like the Bellaire that are not bulit and have no inventory to exchange.

Is ture that the Bellaire is thinking hiring the grounds keeper from Caddy Shack? 

Dutch, I hope you are able to respond and answer all of my and everyone elses  questions.

Bruce


----------



## hobyhaus

*Belaire or what*

We purchased over a year ago and were so hopeful.  We worked with Isreal. amd wonder he still there?  We have heard form him last summer which he said  one week, the walls are being shipped from Mexico City, paperwork was to arrive shortly, on and on.  Any  new information would be so valuable.  We were to have turned in three of our other weeks but declined to do so.  At least for now.  We plan to go to PV next March and were hoping to stay at Belaire.  Forturnately we still own at Velas Vallarta:


----------



## brucecz

hobyhaus said:


> We purchased over a year ago and were so hopeful.  We worked with Isreal. amd wonder he still there?  We have heard form him last summer which he said  one week, the walls are being shipped from Mexico City, paperwork was to arrive shortly, on and on.  Any  new information would be so valuable.  We were to have turned in three of our other weeks but declined to do so.  At least for now.  We plan to go to PV next March and were hoping to stay at Belaire.  Forturnately we still own at Velas Vallarta:



In light of  many reports of what has Not Happened in regard to  the Bellaire promises up to this point I find the salespersons name of "Is real"  very ironic. 

Hopefully for the posters who said they bought this project is  real and will be built.  But every day makes many of us feel better about our recinding. I wonder if on this string there are any shills posting for the Bellaire from Puerto Vallarta?

I suppose you did not know the name of the factory were the walls  were being built?  Do you mean that the walls have4 not shipped last summer as promised?  I did not see those walls on site last September nor has any one reported seeing anything like walls on the job site as of a week ago.  Maybe they have changed the wall builders loke they did contractors and instead of being built in Mexico City they are being built in Spain because Quoting Dutch 43 "They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!!" Unquote.

If there are no walls more than 6 months after promised deliverly I am pluzzled by Dutch 43 saying Quote " They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is  going well!!" Unquote  

I think  maybe Dutch 43 has left the:rofl:  NON-Building.

Bruce


----------



## SteveHCMM

This is now on their site with some pictures.
http://www.belairevacationclub.com/belaire/News/newsfeb08.mht
(Note: at one point it says "One hundred and fifty members shared in the festivities of the grand opening." I find it strange that none of the members here were invited.)
_______________________


Letter from the Developer

Greetings to all members,

Please accept my sincere apologies on behalf of Belaire Vacation Club, The industry and all others concerned, for the inconvenience, the lack of communication and customer service. We would like to share the wonderful progress we have made in this past year.

With the construction in phase one, we completed the state of the art sales room; the award winning models which are of the finest design and spacious floor plans.

The inauguration party for the Bagotti Restaurant in December 2007, was held in honor of the members. One hundred and fifty members shared in the festivities of the grand opening.

I want to inform you as to the series of intense technical meetings with the Spanish Company IDOM,  that we have been attending this past year. We have contracted IDOM for the architectural design and specializing in engineering studies of the executive project for the Belaire Resort foundation for the safety of the towers.

You must understand that when building a foundation of this magnitude incurs studying, reviewing the strategies, calculations, the layers of the earth, etc. The Preparation and the diligence, time and effort before one ever thinks about building. 

There are layers of earth which lie in the abyss. The uncertainty of the stability of the weight of the towers. Also you must remember the budget, planning must enter in to the equation before ever starting the construction of phase two. 

Finally we have all agreed that forty – four meters below the earth, has the safety requirements to support the foundation and insure the stability and guarantee the safety and protection which permits the start up of the construction in March 2008.

We want to thank you for your understanding and trust in our endeavor. We look forward to ensuring you with our personal service and we are looking forward to making all your dreams come true.

Yours Faithfully.


----------



## SteveHCMM

Here is more from their site
http://www.belairevacationclub.com/belaire/News/newsdec07.mht
________________________


NEWSLETTER 
DECEMBER EDITION 2007 

We are wishing you and your families in this upcoming Holiday Season

All the Joy and Happiness and Fabulous New Year 2008!!!!

We have celebrated our one year anniversary since we have welcomed our first members to our family and this is our first Holiday Season we share with you. We wish to thank you for your support, patience and understanding we have received from you within the last year of operation. 

Our growth has been filled in time with lots of hard work, smaller and larger challenges, however we are very pleased with the results and we look forward to new exiting season and with surprising progress on our development.   

Great News! After excavating the land and making necessary soil tests and measurements we have found solid foundation 40 meters /132 ft. into the ground. This brings phase two into the start up for construction.  We are going to place 50 piles in the ground. Each tower will be supported on 22 pylons and our lobby with the waterfall feature will be placed on 6 columns. The drilling has started and is now in the process. Once we have it completed concrete structure will follow. The retaining wall is completed for the swimming pool support and foundation as well. 

The Grand Opening of “Bagotti” Lounge & Restaurant took place on December, 19 and has already established our Fine Gourmet Restaurant among the best in Puerto Vallarta.  

It was a major success in Marina Vallarta area, one of the best of Puerto Vallarta. 

The mayor of Puerto Vallarta along with other officials attended this spectacular event. Party was broadcasted life by four different radio stations and photos were covered with top Vallarta Magazines and News Papers. 

Group of dancers performed to Cuban & Latin Rhythms inviting all guests to dance.  

Since you could not be here with us, we wish to share with you some photos.


IMPORTANT NOTE 
Dear all, our next news letter from the PV Belaire Golf Resort & Spa will be placed on our web site in NEW YEAR 2008. 

Due to the fact, most letters were lost in the web and some of you have complained about not received our first edition, we have decided all updates from now on will be placed directly on our web site www.belairevacationclub.com . So please make sure to check it once in a while. 


With once more warm holiday wishes,
Jonathan James Tomasello CEO


----------



## SteveHCMM

*Just doing more research...*

http://www.vallartaonline.com/news/WhatsNowNewinVallarta/
What's New in Vallarta!
posted:Wednesday, January 9, 2008
by Vallarta Online Staff

Bagotti
Albatros 420, Marina Vallarta
Tel. (322) 209-2193
Lun-Dom/ Mon-Sun 5:00pm-11:00pm

The latest option in Italian food, this restaurant recently opened its doors with a spectacular party that provided a sneak peak at the type of ambiance you will experience. The space is large, offering a variety of wines and spirits, with a lounge-like feel, where you can enjoy your favorite drink and chat while listening to soft music.
__________________


http://www.vallartavive.com/vallartavive.asp?id=1284
A la italiana y con mucho estilo: Bagotti

Otras noticias: 

• Cuenta Vallarta con variada lista de ofertas para disfrutar la Semana Santa

• El poder judicial debe resolver los conflictos en materia territorial: Eva Contreras

• Tours de la API padecieron algunos retrasos por la marcha

• No hay que ir al Consejo Estatal para favorecer posiciones de grupo, sino del partido: Gómez Aldaco

• La IP vallartense la primera en incumplir

• Cuenta Puerto Vallarta con 30 Nuevos Policías

• Dos horas de ánimos exaltados durante la marcha
por Alan Yamil Hinojosa

29/12/2007.-Con el autentico sabor italiano y en medio de ambiente lounge, la noche del pasado sábado se dieron cita importantes personalidades del ámbito social y empresarial en las instalaciones del nuevo restaurante de comida italiana en la zona de Marina Vallarta: Bagotti.

Con el respaldo que la firma Belaire le puede dar, Bagotti llega a instalarse en la calle de Albatros número 420 en la zona de la marina, ubicándose así, en una de las zonas más exclusivas de la ciudad.

Pizzas con su sabor original, lasagna, rissoto, y una gran variedad de platillos tradicionalmente italianos, servidos con los mejores ingredientes directo en su mesa, es una de las características que usted podrá encontrar en este lugar.


----------



## SteveHCMM

"the start up of the construction in March 2008."

Now if we only start seeing some pictures of progess popping up in the next 45 days, that might make some of us feel a little better about this whole project....

Anyone scheduled for PV in late March or April?


----------



## mplswjr

*Israel Who?*

Did someone catch the last name of Israel, the guy selling at Belaire?  I know a guy named Israel who was disingenuous as a salesman.

You really have to watch these sales people.

mplswjr


----------



## SteveHCMM

mplswjr said:


> Did someone catch the last name of Israel, the guy selling at Belaire?  I know a guy named Israel who was disingenuous as a salesman.
> 
> You really have to watch these sales people.
> 
> mplswjr



Israel Curi


----------



## bltfam

We are in Pv on the 13th-20 of March. I will check things out and if there is any construction happening I will take photos and post them. Do you want me to see if I can find out Israel's last name?


----------



## TROOPER08

SteveHCMM said:


> This is now on their site with some pictures.
> http://www.belairevacationclub.com/belaire/News/newsfeb08.mht
> (Note: at one point it says "One hundred and fifty members shared in the festivities of the grand opening." I find it strange that none of the members here were invited.)
> _______________________
> 
> 
> Letter from the Developer
> 
> Greetings to all members,
> 
> Please accept my sincere apologies on behalf of Belaire Vacation Club, The industry and all others concerned, for the inconvenience, the lack of communication and customer service. We would like to share the wonderful progress we have made in this past year.
> 
> With the construction in phase one, we completed the state of the art sales room; the award winning models which are of the finest design and spacious floor plans.
> 
> The inauguration party for the Bagotti Restaurant in December 2007, was held in honor of the members. One hundred and fifty members shared in the festivities of the grand opening.
> 
> I want to inform you as to the series of intense technical meetings with the Spanish Company IDOM,  that we have been attending this past year. We have contracted IDOM for the architectural design and specializing in engineering studies of the executive project for the Belaire Resort foundation for the safety of the towers.
> 
> You must understand that when building a foundation of this magnitude incurs studying, reviewing the strategies, calculations, the layers of the earth, etc. The Preparation and the diligence, time and effort before one ever thinks about building.
> 
> There are layers of earth which lie in the abyss. The uncertainty of the stability of the weight of the towers. Also you must remember the budget, planning must enter in to the equation before ever starting the construction of phase two.
> 
> Finally we have all agreed that forty – four meters below the earth, has the safety requirements to support the foundation and insure the stability and guarantee the safety and protection which permits the start up of the construction in March 2008.
> 
> We want to thank you for your understanding and trust in our endeavor. We look forward to ensuring you with our personal service and we are looking forward to making all your dreams come true.
> 
> Yours Faithfully.


The man in question name is Israel Curi Ocampo...but from what I hear no longer works there.  Also Dee  (Dorota Antoszkiewicz) has left the building!!
Antonio Copela...the tax expert ....maybe is still there...but you can't get by the girl who answers the phone to talk to him!! (Carla Ibarra I believe is her name)   Come on Bellaire ....give us some pictures or updates!!!!!!!!


----------



## brucecz

SteveHCMM said:


> Here is more from their site
> http://www.belairevacationclub.com/belaire/News/newsdec07.mht
> ________________________
> 
> 
> NEWSLETTER
> DECEMBER EDITION 2007
> 
> We are wishing you and your families in this upcoming Holiday Season
> 
> All the Joy and Happiness and Fabulous New Year 2008!!!!
> 
> We have celebrated our one year anniversary since we have welcomed our first members to our family and this is our first Holiday Season we share with you. We wish to thank you for your support, patience and understanding we have received from you within the last year of operation.
> 
> Our growth has been filled in time with lots of hard work, smaller and larger challenges, however we are very pleased with the results and we look forward to new exiting season and with surprising progress on our development.
> 
> Great News! After excavating the land and making necessary soil tests and measurements we have found solid foundation 40 meters /132 ft. into the ground. This brings phase two into the start up for construction.  We are going to place 50 piles in the ground. Each tower will be supported on 22 pylons and our lobby with the waterfall feature will be placed on 6 columns. The drilling has started and is now in the process. Once we have it completed concrete structure will follow. The retaining wall is completed for the swimming pool support and foundation as well.
> 
> The Grand Opening of “Bagotti” Lounge & Restaurant took place on December, 19 and has already established our Fine Gourmet Restaurant among the best in Puerto Vallarta.
> 
> It was a major success in Marina Vallarta area, one of the best of Puerto Vallarta.
> 
> The mayor of Puerto Vallarta along with other officials attended this spectacular event. Party was broadcasted life by four different radio stations and photos were covered with top Vallarta Magazines and News Papers.
> 
> Group of dancers performed to Cuban & Latin Rhythms inviting all guests to dance.
> 
> Since you could not be here with us, we wish to share with you some photos.
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT NOTE
> Dear all, our next news letter from the PV Belaire Golf Resort & Spa will be placed on our web site in NEW YEAR 2008.
> 
> Due to the fact, most letters were lost in the web and some of you have complained about not received our first edition, we have decided all updates from now on will be placed directly on our web site www.belairevacationclub.com . So please make sure to check it once in a while.
> 
> 
> With once more warm holiday wishes,
> Jonathan James Tomasello CEO



______________________________________________________________
 Steve, please Note, I  have deleted the name from this  Private email below that was sent to us on Dec 26, 2007 by a person who had not at that time posted on the Tug BBS.  

Notice that the sender has  0 amount of posts but  said they were  building :rofl: back in December   Note all of the controdrictory :rofl: imformation in the email below in comparison the press release.   Now two months later it appears Dutch :rofl: claimed they just hired the same company two months later.  The amount of people  claimed sold up to that period is interesting :rofl: when you compare the total to other sold claims for differant times. 
_________________________________________________________________

Private Message: Bellair 
 December 26, 2007, 10:16 PM     
Guest


BBS Reg. Date: Dec 24, 07
Posts: 0  Bellair 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got back from PV, Have 10 in my area that bought over six hundred sold. Its over the top but we all bought because we wanted a condo over three thousand ft. Idom is the firm that is doing the building and they were on the site building,It will be done late next year thats what there shooting for. Doretta and Niecko are the mgrs. Went out on the yacht for five hrs and there trying to buy the golf course, because its not being maintained to there likeing.. I played it needs some work. Roger


----------



## pammex

*Belair*

I am here in PV now and went to presentaion today.  We did not purchase anything.  Have lots of nfo to shre though when I return home, not all sounding too good though but will share what I learned and such after March 9th when I return to my area of Mexico but most likely not until after March 18th, when hubby goes to states so watch for more info then.  For now heed caution to those who may be thinking of buying, just my opinion after presentation and checking around here etc.....


----------



## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> We just came from Puerto Vallarta and were treated well by Belaire. They are working on the two towers. Part of the delay was explained that they switched construction companies. They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!! We met the person heading it up and working with Belaire. We are anxious to see the final product. We know it will be awesome! This is just the start of something big!
> 
> Thank you Antonio, Carlos and Niko!
> Ed and Phyllis



I think  maybe Dutch 43 has left the NON-Building.

Private Message: Bellair 
December 26, 2007, 10:16 PM 
Guest


BBS Reg. Date: Dec 24, 07
Posts: 0 Bellair 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got back from PV, Have 10 in my area that bought over six hundred sold. Its over the top but we all bought because we wanted a condo over three thousand ft. Idom is the firm that is doing the building and they were on the site building,It will be done late next year thats what there shooting for. Doretta and Niecko are the mgrs. Went out on the yacht for five hrs and there trying to buy the golf course, because its not being maintained to there likeing.. I played it needs some work. Roger



Dutch 43 In light of many reports of what has Not Happened in regard to the Bellaire promises up to this point I find the salespersons name of "Is real" very ironic. 

Dutch 43 Hopefully for the posters who said they bought this project is  real and will be built. 

Dutch 43 But every day makes many of us feel better about our recinding. I wonder if on this string there are any shills posting for the Bellaire from Puerto Vallarta?

Dutch43 I suppose you did not know the name of the factory were the walls were being built? 

Dutch43  Do you mean that the walls have not shipped last summer as promised? 

Dutch43 I did not see those walls on site last September nor has any one reported seeing anything like walls on the job site as of a week ago. 


Dutch43 Maybe they have changed the wall builders loke they did contractors and instead of being built in Mexico City they are being built in Spain because 

Quoting Dutch 43 "They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!!" Unquote.

Dutch43 If there are no walls more than 6 months after promised deliverly I am pluzzled by Dutch 43 saying Quote " They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is  going well!!" Unquote 

I think  maybe Dutch 43 has left the NON-Building.

Bruce


----------



## needavacation

Yes, Dutch must have left the non-building.  I still think that he was really Carlos.


----------



## missdaisy10

*Latest from Registry Collection on Belaire Affiliation*

Yesterday, I emailed The Registry Collection office in Mexico City in order to get a current reading on Belaire's current status with TRC.  I received a phone call back almost immediately.  The gentleman who called didn't have many answers for me but promised to get them and email me back.  Within a couple of hours, I received the email below from TRC.  

In reading it, I do not know whether to be encouraged or discouraged.  

I am encouraged that Belaire finally did what they said they would do:  they have a "provisional" relationship with TRC.  

I am discouraged because:
1.  It took all of these months for this to get accomplished when it was promised/should have been completed much earlier.
2.  I have a nagging feeling that they may have done this now because things have "hit the fan" with their current members and they had to do something to head off further revolt so that they can keep selling.
3. The promised ability to trade weeks on TRC beginning in January, 2008, is now backed up until (at best) March, 2009.  That's a 15 month delay.  
4.  Trading will not begin until Belaire has inventory--i.e. when at least the first tower is completed which is still a big question mark.  

Here's the TRC email:  

Subject: The Registry Collection, Belaire affiliation
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:13:27 -0500
From: Inquiry@registry-collection.com
To: [personal address deleted]
Hello,

The Registry Collection is pleased to announce its affiliation with Belaire Golf Resort & Spa  
Resort. 

Here is what we know at this time:

      The Project is still under construction, there is no inventory available until March, 2009
      The Project will be featured in the resort directory and  web page upon resort completion
      Members will be able to use The Registry Collection services upon resort completion
      Belaire web page is: www.belairevacationclub.com
      Phone of Belaire:  toll free from US 866 438-1448 or +52 (322) 209-1090 

Thank you for your patience as we completed our affiliation process with The Belaire Golf Resort & Spa.

The Registry Collection
800-548-2300
Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m. EST 
Saturday, 9:30 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. EST
inquiry@registry-collection.com


----------



## TROOPER08

Here is another little "fly in the ointment" I just found out today.  It seems the company I paid to transfer my ownership of the resort I turned in to buy Bellaire has not transfered the deed even though this process was started way back in Sept. 07.  Soooooo...the Florida property is looking for their maintenance cost for 08.   Has anyone had any dealing with Resort Closings up in Montana ... or is this another part of the Bellaire experience?????


----------



## Dutch43

Took some time off from MN and went to Fl for a couple of weeks, so I'm back in the building. Bruce, tell me how you have so much time to be able to post 1,164 different posts? Why are you so concerned about Belaire and you don't even own there? You should really get a life. By the way I didn't know it was my job to take pictures. All I can do is relate my experiences and you can do with them whatever you want. You sound like a very bitter person. Try looking at life through the windshield, instead of through the rearview mirror.


----------



## brucecz

TROOPER08 said:


> Here is another little "fly in the ointment" I just found out today.  It seems the company I paid to transfer my ownership of the resort I turned in to buy Bellaire has not transfered the deed even though this process was started way back in Sept. 07.  Soooooo...the Florida property is looking for their maintenance cost for 08.   Has anyone had any dealing with Resort Closings up in Montana ... or is this another part of the Bellaire experience?????



Why am I not surprised.

I see Dutch43 appears to be afraid to comment on this post or the other posts that sound IMHO far more beliveable that his postings.

He does not dare to try to refute those posts so his personal attack on me reminds me how Greg was attacked on the first String.  Dutch 43 I am honored that you choose to attack me instead of trying to refute  those other posts item for item.

Maybe you are trying to get me to over react in a post  to your posts so the mods might shut this string down like they did the first string. That type of Bellaire tactic will not work with me on this string.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

Dutch, I am retired and SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO gald I saw through the "Fluff" in time to recind.  In regard to the  lack of Building progress in the  many other posts that  directly  controdicts your posts you have nothing to say.

 They are no pictures to show of the building progress because there has been no progress after a years time and that is why you can not post that type of picture.

So you  are trying to use how many posts I posted to distract me and others with your smoke and mirriors.

Why don't you address and try to explain away the concerns of the person TROOPER08 who posted before you in post number 63 who bought at the Belaire and the problem caused him by the Bellaire in regards 14 months have gone by and the Bellaire has not done what they promised in the contract on the timeshare he traded in to the Bellaire.

I think you are bitter as time may be running out on you but I will not play your bitter game but just comment on the facts as others report them here about the many broken promises made by the Bllaire  reported by almost everybody but  you.

Seeing is beliving and as soon as I see the pictures of the fully completed Bellaire I will commend them.   But then  if it is indeed built I wonder how long it will be before the Club is termanated and the Club Members  get everthing but the Building and the land as per items in my recinded contract. I would image that the developer may "Somehow" end up with the land and the building.

Do you care to respond that some of the employess have  jumped ship.  Maybe they were afraid of what is coming in light of all the delays that can not be reasonably explained away even though you  try.

They reportly have left the NON building.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

TROOPER08 said:


> The man in question name is Israel Curi Ocampo...but from what I hear no longer works there.  Also Dee  (Dorota Antoszkiewicz) has left the building!!
> Antonio Copela...the tax expert ....maybe is still there...but you can't get by the girl who answers the phone to talk to him!! (Carla Ibarra I believe is her name)   Come on Bellaire ....give us some pictures or updates!!!!!!!!



Dutch 43, care to  comment(or again no coment again) seeing you were  just there? 

Bruce:rofl:


----------



## brucecz

pammex said:


> I am here in PV now and went to presentaion today.  We did not purchase anything.  Have lots of nfo to shre though when I return home, not all sounding too good though but will share what I learned and such after March 9th when I return to my area of Mexico but most likely not until after March 18th, when hubby goes to states so watch for more info then.  For now heed caution to those who may be thinking of buying, just my opinion after presentation and checking around here etc.....



Dutch  43, care to   comment(or again no coment again) seeing you were  just there? 

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

Karen G said:


> If it seems too good to be true, it probably is false.  Don't fall for it.
> 
> If you did fall for it and you are within your five-day right of recission, rescind the contract.  Read the information about Mexico right-of-recission at the top of the Mexico forum.



Dutch  43, care to   comment(or again no coment again) seeing :zzz: you were  just there? 

Bruce  :rofl:


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## brucecz

Dutch  43 I see you  did not address these  questions and provide any answers but just vent  in your last posting directed at:rofl:  me. I though I would post those questions again and hope for a postive factual  response from you this time.

Bruce

Dutch 43 In light of many reports of what has Not Happened in regard to the Bellaire promises up to this point I find the salespersons name of "Is real" very ironic. 

Dutch 43 Hopefully for the posters who said they bought this project is real and will be built. 

Dutch 43 But every day makes many of us feel better about our recinding. I wonder if on this string there are any shills posting for the Bellaire from Puerto Vallarta?

Dutch43 I suppose you did not know the name of the factory were the walls were being built? 

Dutch43 Do you mean that the walls have not shipped last summer as promised? 

Dutch43 I did not see those walls on site last September nor has any one reported seeing anything like walls on the job site as of a week ago. 


Dutch43 Maybe they have changed the wall builders loke they did contractors and instead of being built in Mexico City they are being built in Spain because 

Quoting Dutch 43 "They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!!" Unquote.

Dutch43 If there are no walls more than 6 months after promised deliverly I am pluzzled by Dutch 43 saying Quote " They now have a company from Spain heading it up and it is going well!!" Unquote


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## pammex

*I am legit*

Hi,  I am not leaving PV until tomorrow am.  I am staying at resort in PV, do not want to mention name until I return, just in case of problems.  

Now......let me just say I have photos, many of the non-building, the restaurant, the supposed construction and the 5 workers on site, even the two pile drivers, and a back hoe.  The two pile drivers have done nothing in the two weeks I have been here.  The back hoe must be broken as It sits in same place also for two weeks.  The big 5 man construction crew did each have a shovel.  There has been an empty garafon ( water bottle) laying on its side in same place also for two weeks.

I have also written down and will post the newest sales pitch.  Oh yes, the restaurant we had a nice breakfast on their dime.  We also looked at the beautiful, needless to say units on the second or top floor.  Very exquisite except totally nonfunctionable, for example, no faucets, no running water, etc...

Will give more details when return but at moment am packing to leave in the morning......oh yeah just a little note, we were told do not worry about the proximity of the airport because they are going to move it LOL, there will remain a runway for small jets, but PV will be getting 2, not one, mind you 2, new airports ( just for Belair LOL), one to be 10 minutes north ( which heads towards Nuevo Vallarta)  I believe that is where the army base is located, the other airport in PV will be on the South Side of PV, do you know where that is, on the mountain, about 5000 feet high a total cliff of resorts etc....hmmmm...cannot even imagine how that would or could be possible.....

One OPC Timehsare salesguy did say to us when we asked him what do you think of Belair, he said oh that SCAM!!!!  

I will give details upon return but I am a legit Tug Poster/Member.  We are actually getting quite a laugh over the airport move.....what will their next line be?  

I hope there is some salvation for those who have invested but my thoughts think not without pursuit of this matter in the legal sytem..again I hope I am totally wrong....

You will hear more from me in upcoming weeks......


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## steve_esko

I found the below article on IDOM home page http://www.idom.es/noticias.php?id_sec=37&lang=I#109



16th. November 2007
Hotel Belaire in Puerto Vallarta (Mexico)

The project was born as a new concept of space in which naturally mix illusion, transparency and tranquility. A large space in which, however, is guaranteed the privacy of their guests. Belaire, with 26,000 square meters of construction, consists of two towers of organizational design. Their 8 levels are interconnected by a series of bridges that seem to float in the air and which creates an impressive waterfall that greets guests and visitors. 
Each tower counts with 7 levels for departments -Master Suite, and a Junior Suite Pent House-, as well as all the services that the most demanding client could find in a hotel in this category: Spa, gym, select boutiques, shops and restaurants, one with an amazing view of the bay because of falling at the last level. The development also has outdoor facilities pool, bar, terraces and the area of private jacuzzis with their walkers. All these spaces are fully integrated with each other for green areas carefully designed. 
The hotel PV Belaire equip Puerto Vallarta a Milestone Luminic referential, thanks to its design of interior and exterior lighting.



I sent an email to IDOM requesting information concerning any services they may be providing to Belaire and will post any information here that I receive from them.

Perhaps a call to one of their offices could help shed some light on the reality of this project?


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## SteveHCMM

Good thought, I wonder if they'll respond. 

I keep questioning that waterfall. Looks like something out of the TV show Las Vegas. Wouldn't that be really loud???


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## steve_esko

*IDOM*

Here is the email I sent to IDOM, their reply is below.  Hasn’t representatives of Belaire stated that IDOM is or has been on site there?  I would inquire to IDOM regarding such information if I knew what all they have claimed.

I am writing in regards to the Hotel Belaire in Puerto Vallarta (Mexico) 
My understanding is that they are a customer of yours. 
There seems to be conflicting information regarding the progress of this project. 
Could you shed some light on it for me? 






Dear Steve, 
The architects of IDOM are projecting the comprehensive architecture of the new hotel in Puerto Vallarta (Mexico). In this way, we can say of course that the owners of Belaire are our customers. 
I do not know exactly what are you meaning with "conflicting information". Anyway, I'm only the master of the Web site of IDOM, and since my information is limited, I'm sending your request to the architect responsible for the project Belaire, who may provide further clarification. 
Thank you for your clarifications. 
Regards,

Gabriel Vilallonga
Ingeniero Industrial
IDOM 
Madrid (Spain)
+34 606 31 24 14


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## needavacation

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has investigated Belaire.  You have been a big help to us suckers who purchased.  Thanks for all the information.


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## steve_esko

*IDOM*

Below is a follow up email I received from IDOM.


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## steve_esko

Below is a follow up email I received from IDOM.


Thank you for contacting IDOM. I would like to inform you IDOM has done all the engineering and architectural project of PV Belaire. All our work is finished, PV Belaire has been our client for the last few month, and PV Belaire now will construct the hotel.

I would like to mention that our company is focussed in Engineering and Architectural projects all around the world, we have two branche in the States and one in Canada as well as branches in other parts of the world.

Should you have any question do not hesitate to contact us,



Jose Mª Argüelles
Director Idom Mexico
Av. Paseo de la Reforma, Nº 389 - Piso 19 
Colonia Cuauhtemoc, CP 6500 - Mexico DF (Mexico)
Tlfn: (+52 55) 5208 4649 
Fax: (+52 55) 5208 4358 
Cel: (+52 55) 5508 0958
jarguelles@idom.com.mx
www.idom.com.mx


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## pammex

Okay I am home, hubby has left for a bit for work.  Getting caught up.  Will try to post my updated info by this weekend.  Am I able to upload photos directly to this site or can someoen advise me easiest way to do so.


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## Karen G

pammex said:


> Am I able to upload photos directly to this site or can someoen advise me easiest way to do so.


See post #19 at this thread  about how to put your photos on photobucket and then transfer them to TUG.  It is very simple if you carefully follow these directions.


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## pammex

Okay well here goes....my timeshare presentation at the infamous Belair in PV.

Got up very early for vacationers to meet timeshare street person at McDonalds in Marina.  Found him no problem.  He promised 4500 pesos for attending presentation.  Then told us his buddy who was going to take us said Belair only offers 4000 pesos, we said okay adios...he handed us 500 pesos.  So far so good.  Least I am getting paid for my time and getting up so early, I am a night owl, mornings are not for me LOL.  

The 3 of us, me, hubby, and timeshare street seller climb in  our car and head to Belair.  Of course we have already been in area for a week and 2 days.  Nothing has changed at Belair, still 5 guys working with shovels on a retaining wall ( well sometimes working) and machinery on site remains as still as ever.  The water bottle remains on its side empty and abandoned on property.  Guess those workers do not drink water, since usually builder provides water garafons ( 20 liter water bottles) for workers.  Okay we park and enter property.  

We are seated at an outdoor table, then we are processed, have to show ID's and 2 major credit cards and our paper showing we are owed 4000 pesos after presentation.  We are left to sit with coffee for about 20 minutes and finally we are taken in by a salesman.  Now you will not believe this but I cannot remember his name( he did tell us his relative or something was a diplomat and he did not like US.)  He brings us into nice restaurant, lots of glass etc.  Model of development etc. etc.  We have our breakfast, quite good I might add.  Then being a smoker I tell him I would like to sit outside to smoke, so we move to a table outdoors behind restaurant, overlooking, golf course and a pond thing with a live crocodile on the side.  My husband says who would golf here with loose crocs.  The salesman says oh there are only about 4 of them and we feed them very well.  Oh okay, if you say so!!!  LOL.  

Now the saleman proceeds to ask us what we might be interested in buying for time...like full time, half year, quarter year, month etc.  We ask how much for full time 1.8 million.  I laugh and tell him you have to be kidding, I can build a house on the ocean for that.  He says well probably but people like our concept due to no maintenance. ( Oh I am sure they do since there are no units to live in LOL. ) So we tell him how about a month, well at preconstruction prices that is only 149, 000 for 400 weeks ( wow what a deal).  He tells us we will never have to pay maintenance fees again, never have to spend another dime.  Then he says he wants to take our current timeshares as downpayments, we give the no way to that one.  All right then if you just give me $45, 000 now or some now and then pay in full the $45,000 in 4 months, 400 weeks are yours.  He then tells us that when construction is complete he will buy back our unit at 75% of current market rate which will be more than we invested of course as the market always goes up.  My husband says oh really have you seen what is occurring in the states right now, he ignores the comment.  Proceeds to show us a Conde Nast book as a trading book and also some book by a company with name Johanna;s ( never heard of it), anyway says we can trade in with these companies till construction completed.  My husband says and when will that be....he says about 18 months.  Also tells us we can trade in our weeks for airline tickets, tickets to the Patriots ( we are from New England) ( really they are always sold out hmm..) , hotels, restaurants on and on....okay so I say I never heard of those exchange companies.....oops guess wrong track for salesman changes subject....tells us when you use your unit you just pay $399-$499 USE fee, and $66. per person per day for mandantory all inclusive in their restaurant and also (are you ready???? LOL)  EVERY Restaurant in the Marina!!!!  ( This guy must think we just got off the boat from never, never land).  I say to him well why AI, do the units not have kitchens???  He says oh yes, beautiful ones, do you want to see a unit....duh....you think I am going to pay you a dime and not see anything....this is really quite comical to me and hubby!

Off we go to top floor of restaurant......view units. Kitchens and such are definately state of the art, absolutely beautiful units.....just no water, no faucets, etc.  Okay we tell him yes they are very nice.  He says what size unit would you like, we tell him a one bedroom, oh that is price he gave us...okay lets get back to table with questions and such.  On way down we pass an area of glass enclosed room with many about 20, computers running, all manned by a person.  I find this strange since they have no units, all these computers running and such.  I say to hubby quite the operation in there huh...salesman's ears perk up he says WHAT?  My husband thought I was talking about A/C units so he says she said great A/C operation.  I repeat my statement to my husband and now he gets it and the salesman again gets all nervous, hubby just repeats same thing to him.  This is all too weird to me...

Back at table, my husband says look I am a bit confused.....you have not one functioning unit, no faucets, and only 5 men working.  The saleman asks me would you be comfortable in one of the units I showed you, I replied well yes of course if they were functioning.  He says well some people would not as they are afraid of breaking anything or they feel too elegant.  I told him well they are not too elegant for me.  He proceeds to tell me how each unit will also have a storage garage type area for things they want to store there like photos etc.  (Hmmm...wonder where those will go and where they will fit.)  Since the salesman ignored my husbands question he repeats to him and also points out not on beach and well we like the beach.  Oh no problem, we are going to have a private beach club and each owner or unit will have its own golf cart to go there.  Hubby says really well how do you plan to do that, where will you store them, a few hundred golfcarts require quite a bit of parking and how will you access a private beach club and where will it be, he of course points down golf course.....so hubby points out well the development next door's pool is abutting the golf course so did you buy a portion of golf course .  Salesman says no, but we bought right of passage and will ba making a small road....hubby says well then some of it will be right on golf course, salesman says no.  Hubby points out well then you have a problem cause at some point over there you will have less than 2 feet, must be very skinny golf carts.  Salesman says no problem we have it all worked out.  Okey dokey!!!  Then my husband asks him and where is the pool going, your model shows a pool.  The saleman replies oh the pool will have sand around it and all to make it like a beach...oh good but where is it going to be we ask?  He says well..This existing building ( where the Bagotti Restaurant is), is going to be torn down because we are sitting on the pool area!  I repied oh well what a waste.....he said oh no we will be resourceful....(Oh I bet they will).

Now saleman says so what do you think want to get in on this deal.  My husband says I am a builder and well frankly I do not buy preconstruction, I have seen many builders go under without completing a project.  Salesman assures us oh not here.  I will show you contract and all we are covered by Sector and of course Profeco ( red light), then he says but of course Profeco can only do so much then you have to go to mexico's Supreme Court, and pay expensive lawyer fees and all.   ( are we really hearing this right?)  Contract is given to my husband and he glances through it, it is over 8 pages long, my husband points out that it states something about buyer not owning any of land, building and other such stuff...salesman says oh do not worry about that we are covered for everything.  (Oh I bet he is but what about buyers, all they are buying is the right to use land, buildings and such) ( this is not sounding good).  Husband asks me do I want to read contract , I declined and said I am not reading all that and I am confused on this whole offer, as well as the fact I heard this place was under construction for over 2 years now and this is all that is done?  Plus you tell us it will be complete in 18 months well I know Mexico and that is quite quick especially with a crew of what 5 guys you have.  Now the saleman proceeds to tell us well they had problem, as they found out they have to go forty feet or something in to ground, as it is different here, the ground is different etc.  My husband says and you did not know this when architect drew up plans and you got permits etc.  So salesman proceeds to tell us no so next week we have machines going to be putting in pilasters ( sorry if incorrect name, husband not here to help me and no I did not write it down oops).  Husband mentioned yes, I see that machine but it has been sitting in same place for whole time we have been here.  So saleman tells us, yes we are starting next week cause we had problem with developer so now we have a builder/developer from Spain called IDOM.  They will complete project in 18 months.  They are all brains and they are the only company in the world that can build nuclear plants in Europe.  I said well you are not building a nuclear plant!  He said well I just want you to see how smart they are.  Oh okay.  I proceed to tell him I thought you had to hire Nationals, you know Mexicans for labor.  He said oh yes we will and are, we are just using IDOm for the brains end, you know the big guys.  

At just this moment a plane goes over head and my husband looks up.....so salesman says...( are you ready for this one???)  , oh do not worry about that as they are going to be moving the airport.  I said what? they are moving airport where?  He said well the airport will still be there but just for small planes, but they are building one airport about 15 miles from here to the north, to NV.  ( Hmm...I think that is just about where the militarty camp is), and they are building another airport on the south side of PV ( again hmmm...on the mountainside, cliff).  He tells us you know the way to NV is prime building area and they will also be putting in a road to NV to bypass the traffic problem so that it will take no more than 3 minutes to get to Nuevo Vallarta.  (  I really think I am being told some tall tales, but I'll say nothing and play the game).  He then tells us the timeshare people will all be taken out of the airports, the new ones ( okay that would be good heheh) and also street timeshares salespeople will also be removed and gotten rid of so there will be no more of that.  ( okay if he says so, but I'll believe it when I see it).  

So he says, so what do you think?  My husband says I think I do not buy preconstruction as I told you, I also feel as though this all sounds too good to be true and well in US we say if it sounds too good to be true it is!!!  RUN!! He says well it is not too good to be true let me re-explain.  

$145,000US for 4 weeks /year total of 400 weeks, this includes a 15% discount, no taxes, no closing costs.  $25. charge for GOLF anywhere in the world, "do you golf?" ( we say NO). down payment of $35,000 with 4 months to pay, or you can get a corporate card thur us to pay with 3% interest.  Do you like spas?  ( we say yes), oh it also includes any spa anywhere in world as much as you want including massages for just $75./day. ( sounds too good to be true) Guaranteed $2000.US per week rentals and the money can be put in LLoyds of London here in Mexico which is an offshore account to avoid taxes.  ( Now there is a Lloyds in Mexico, and investment company but I do not think it has any affilaition with Lloyds of London??) In 2 years we will buy back your unit at 75% of what you paid but at current inflation rate, so you WILL make a lot of money, and then you will be asked if you want to invest in our next project, cause we will be doing them in Cabo, Mayan Riviera, Huatulco, and somewhere else.  Rememebr we are regulated by Sector and of course profeco.  We are members of USA, Canada & Spain Better Business Bureau.  ( I had to ask and not Mexico?, he said well of course Mexico Better Business Bureau too).  

Do you understand now, he asks us.  We answer yes.  You have 5 men working, you have machinery that does not move, you have already had a 2 year delay, you have no functioning units and you show us trading companies we have never heard of and you want a lot of money with nothing to give right now in return, and the only building you have you are going to tear down,  And we do not buy preconstruction.  So we are not interested but we will be back in July to Puerto Vallarta and we will check it out then.  cont..


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## pammex

He says well in July it will be so much higher.  Husband says why, you will still be preconstruction, he says cause we will be sold out or almost.  So we tell him well we will take our chances.  We just are not interested at this point.  He says well how about you give me $35,000 down payment today and when you come in July if you do not like progress of construction I will give you back $38, 000 US.  You will make money in only a few months. ( Too good to be true) We again said No, sorry but this is just not for us.  Maybe it is not for anyone right now.  He finally said okay, well lets move inside so I can sign you out.  How did you get an offer of 4000 pesos anyway, usually they only give 2000 pesos.  We said no clue but I told man I was sleeping in and he asked what would it take to get me out of bed and I told him 4000 pesos and he said okay.  The salesman sai oh I see, I asked cause there are some people that just do this to make money to pay for their vacations and now in the US when you cross the border, immigration is going to check if you have made money on timeshare presentations so you have to pay the taxes.  My husband replied the US is going to do this to everyone, that would take a lot of time, work and research.  He said oh no, not to everyone just those that fit the profile.  Yes, we asked and what profile would that be?  He said married, dual income, 2 credit cards, etc.  ( Now this is totally absurd, I have heard enough). We said oh I see, well we will be sure to tell them we came here, if they profile us!

Seats us at yet another table.....where another man comes over, oh I am sorry to hear you are not interested in our fractional or full time ownership plan, but I have a great deal for you for now and then later you can convert over, how about I take one or more of your timeshares off your hands and give you one of ours with no maintenance fees ( haha remember the USE fee), we said absolutely not, we like our timeshares we have.  He then said well how about another one, we said well maybe but not here since you have no units, he proceeded to tell us we could exchange until complete and for just $840US  for a transition fee ( no clue what that is? ) and $5000. US we could have a timshare with him for a total of 52 weeks, which you will probably use 2 times then you'll send friends and such which will give us "fresh meat".  ( Can you imagine we are going to send him our friends for fresh meat).   So we tell him look, we are not interested in anything here at this time, we will see what has happened by July and we already know July will be too late but we will take our chances.  He says oh okay and escorts us outside to a table and tells us to wait for our gifts.  We sat for about 15 minutes, thinking they were not going to pay us the 4000 pesos but then lo  and behold out came a woman who promptly paid us.  

We drove away, happy with our money and laughing over some of the issues and then thinking of all who have invested and we were no longer laughing.  

We truly hope this is for real and goes as they say but IMHO...this is TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!!!  I wish I had better info to report.  I hope we are totally wrong and missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime.( but of course then there will be Cabo  and Mayan Riviera etc...)  

I will try tomorrow night or over weekend to post pics of site etc., that I took. cont..


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## pammex

We went shopping in PV with our pesos after this and we ended up talking with a timeshare street salesman, well of course, since they are everwhere.  We asked him, hey what do you think of that place they call Belair....he laughed and this is and I quote " OH that scam", we told him what we had been told about airport and he laughed and then he said do you know where south side is, we said yes, of course.  We also told him about the removal of timeshare salesmen from airport and streets and he said well might be good idea to try to get them out of airport since people do not like that upon immediate arrival but I think they will remain on the streets or there will be no business for resorts to sell their timeshares.  I found his comments interesting.  

If this is for real, well then I am really dumb...and if it is not then I am sorry for those of you involved.  

I'll give another update in July of this year and get on uploading those pictures.

I do want to add here...buyer beware, be informed, JOIN tug!  I own many timeshares in Mexico and US and have never had a problem, so who knows maybe this will in the end turn out to be the same.........


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## Linda74

I was in PV last week.  We took the Belaire tour.  We don't usually do tours but they offered us $4700 pesos and were very persistent so we caved..  What they have is a mock up of the units and a restaurant.  When our salesman learned what I had paid for my timeshares (resale and EBAY), he 
said you really would not be interested in this place.  I said "You don't have any real resort to show me and that is a big concern."  He said they had just affilitated with a resort called HSI.  Anyway, they started at $170,000 and the whole no maintenance fee for life for the first 400 owners.  Obviously, there are lies being told.  They said Mayan Palace hates them because they are taking their members away.  There must be some MP relation because I am sure the MP bracelets we had on are what caused the timeshare shark in the Marina to be so agressive and up the "prize" money.  I met someone in PV who said they move the equipment around to make it look like progress is being made.  We were told that construction would begin in 4 days. (That was on March 3).  I think things are a little shady at Belaire.


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## Linda74

One more "too good to be true" statement from our Belaire tour.  They said that if we bought a $50,000 contract, they would buy it back each year for $65,000 and we could repurchase a different unit for $50,000.  That alone was a red flag.  I hope all works out for those who purchased there but I would be wary.


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## Karen G

Thanks, Pam and Linda for all your information. At times I've wondered if threads about Bellaire were just trying to drum up business for the place, but with all the information you and others have provided, it is clear that's not happening here on TUG.

Thanks again for taking the time and effort to report your experiences.


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## Linda74

Our tour was pretty much identical to Pam's.  We were accosted at the Mayan Palace booth in the Marina to take it.  I know also that if you go to the Cofradia (Tequilla Store) in the Marina or downtown, the salespeople will try to snag you to doing the Belaire tour and a few others as well.  There is another one also, a holiday club called Star in Bucerias.  We did that one also(pumped up after earning $4700 pesos at Belaire).  That one is really of a scam and about 4 couples had to wait 2 hours to get the $3500 peso's promised.  We were put through 8 different sales people who became increasingly more rude.  They want to see you have three credit cards, I guess the feeling is if they can sell, they get you to max out the credit cards.  This one takes place in an older resort in Bucerias (with a beautiful view, however).  They have no mockup only try to take your timeshares and sell you their club which has no value and is essentially an RCI membership.  It is really run by shady characters with no upscale feeling to the resort.  Bottom line, you have to know what you are doing to attend these sales pitches.  Thank goodness, we have our TUG knowledge and history of buying resale to match the lies told.  It was an experience and with 2 weeks in PV this time, we did come away with $8200 pesos, not bad for about 5 hours work.  Would we do it again???Probably not, but it had been so long since we took a tour, I actually enjoyed bantering with the crooked salespeople.  My husband is of a different mindset.  He considered the time torture and would not do again.


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## What a Joke

*Belaire*

thought i would share this with the tugg members. I have been reading your posts about belaire. I have been in puerto vallarta many times on vacation over the past 10 yrs and i have toured most of the properties. we decided to tour belaire to see what the place is about. well i arrived and was told this is so different then timeshare..the normal thing all resorts say. ..as i was touring the property we asked who is the owner  ..they said  mr. copella..i asked where he is from and what resorts he has done before . my salesguy responded with oh a few in cancun ect ect ..then he said do you want to meet the owner . I agreed and out came the owner ..just like that. Then i almost fell on the floor ..mr. copella the owner was the same guy who took my wife and i on a tour in mayan palace where we are owners. !! i was in shock. ..he told us how is so wealthy and make millions a yr and builds and ect ect . (i was thinking are you kidding me ! ) i was hoping he didnt reconize us ..and he went on about how he can make us so much money and not pay taxes. ect ect ..(sounds fishy to me. ) and after knowing he was my sales person at the mayan all interest was lost .. and i was thinking ..how many people came here and believed all this junk. needless to say we didnt buy anything ..after we said no they offered us the entire deal for 6000usd ..lol  ok 130,000usd to 6,000 wow ..now theres value!!!. we dicided to take some pics and here they are of the construction they say is underway . No body there working just metal & a show room.


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## pammex

[/IMG]


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## pammex

Sorry as you can see I am having problems with getting pics here, sorry for duplicate....I have been trying for over 4 hours now to get 7 pics on here....


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## pammex

Well that is the best I can do with pics.  I better take a computer class instead of timeshare pitch, my this is hard.  As you can see from pics, just a bit of equipment, lots of dirt, junk hanging around etc.....believe me I have seen many building projects in Mexico and this is just a show.  I have heard they move equipment around as well to make it look as though work being done but for the two weeks I was there, everything was still and well maybe rusting away except the 5 sole workers with shovels and empty water bottle and the people in the salesroom of course.  

Linda74 good for you in seeing the real deal here "mock up units", perfect choice of words, wish I had thought of it.  HSI is kind of like an exchange or rental company, you have to buy a membership, I have one.  Cannot imagine how they could be part of them since they have nothing to offer for units.  I'll pop them an email and ask.

KarenG ( mod) goodness I hope this site is not being used to drum up business for them after all the time I have put into getting info for these poor people who took their bait.  Oh my..

I recheck and update status in July when I return to PV, but maybe not pics unless I figure out an easier way to do it...LOL...

I have to get something else done now, so good luck to everyone who did purchase at Belair, hope in some way my info helps, but not sure how it will...


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## pammex

Forgot I tried to take out duplicate picture but I can't do that either, maybe a moderator can or just leave it...whatever...sorry!!!


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## KarenLK

Since I was in PV for 7 weeks, I thought I would go to a presentation or two ... anywhere but Mayan Palace. I saw some people from Royal Holiday Club, some Mayan Palace huts, but was not approached even once and we were really interested in the cash!!
Pam, I looked for you and asked a lot of people in baseball hats, but I did not connect.


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## pammex

Sorry I missed you KarenLK, maybe next time.  We'll have to plan a better way to find each other though as guess lots of baseball caps are worn LOL.  

Wow, I cannot believe you could not get to a presentation, did you walk the malecon?


----------



## Linda74

Pam's pictures are identical to what we saw when we took the tour on March 3.  Don't know what day they were taken on, but they are surely indicative of the lack of progress in the building project.  I do hope that things work out so that the posters who bought aren't victims.  In reading the almost 100 posts here on the board, there are so many conflicting statements given by the salespeople.  For instance, our salesman, a guy from New Jersey named Eric, I believe, said that you could not sell for them if you had ever sold timeshares before.  And obviously, the sales force includes at least one former Mayan Palace salesperson.  We were told you would be put up at the Grand Velas Vallarta next year if the unit was not ready...(even if it did happen, wonder who would pay the all inclusive).  There was another resort they mentioned which would accomodate people during the building stage, but I can't remember the name right now.  I wish I had taken notes, as prior to the visit, did not know this was such a hot topic on TUG.  At the other timeshare tour we took, we met a couple from Peru who had purchased last year at Belaire and were on their way over to check the building progress.  They had paid over $3,000 for a certain number of  weeks and had already had several indications that things were not as presented.  They saw right through the "Star Holiday" presentation we were on so I wondered what was said to them at Belaire to make them purchase last year as they certainly presented as astute consumers.  I can't wait to return to PV next year just to see what has become of the resort and with the hope that it is not the total sham it appears to be.


----------



## Karen G

pammex said:


> KarenG ( mod) goodness I hope this site is not being used to drum up business for them after all the time I have put into getting info for these poor people who took their bait.



Pam, your work will undoubtedly save others from being victimized by Bellaire. What I was referring to were some questionable posts in this long thread and another that was closed that were purportedly written by "satisfied, happy" customers of Bellaire.  Many people thought these were fake posts by Bellaire salesmen.

Thanks again for all your time and effort in writing your report and posting your pictures.


----------



## What a Joke

*updated Pictures*

After posting here, i noticed someone sorry( Pammex) posted some pictures of belaire that seem to be taken Feb 27th 2008 from the date on the picture. I found some more updated pictures of that resort on another site ..thought everyone might like to see ..since this is such a big topic on here . even happier we didnt buy after seeing how many complaints there about this place .. 

www.mexicotimesharescams.com


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## pammex

Yes my pics were taken on Feb 27, 2008.  They are pretty much the same as the ones What a joke displayed.....not much has occurred....

I met a person in PV who went to presentation after us and we told them whatever you do, do not buy at this time as we have read many bad issues on TUG with this place.  Anyway they went and bought.  Called me at home to let me know and I said I told you big problems there , try to rescind, IMHU ,anyway I just heard from them and they had charged 9,900USD on their Visa dep. or payment and then 2 days later went back to get out of deal.  Belair kept all their paperwork and finally gave them a paper saying their Visa would be credited in 15 days...not sure what that all means and if that is correct recision but we shall see in a few more days I guess....

karenG...Yes, I understood what you meant as I had followed the other post as well.  Thanks for the thanks though.

I just feel so bad to even believe people would do this to these poor victims and then post as satisfied customers as well.  How sad!  This really gives a bad rep. to Mexico and its timeshares.  We own quite a few timeshares in Mexico and are very happy with them and never experienced anything like this, guess we were lucky.  

Hate to say this but I doubt Grand Velas will put people up from Belair and even if so their AI is very high.  I am going to stay on this as I frequent PV a lot, will be back in July and will post and well try again to put pics for everyone.  

For those who opted out....smart move I think and for those who did not well I wish you the best and I can see how it happens with their smooth talk and impressive so called units......what a shame!!


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## Linda74

Just remembered the other resort they said people would be staying in if their units weren't ready was the Bay View Grand (I think it is affiliated with the Venetian).  There was some part of the pitch that said you had to do one All Inclusive a year so perhaps that is how they wrapped the Grand Velas into it, albeit with extremely high AI fees.  Hate to say it, but I think this is all "Pie in the Sky"  (which coincidentally is a great bakery in PV)!!!!


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## Dutch43

*Bel Aire*

I just visited Bel Aire today and construction continues. Lots of activity with rebar cages being built for the footings.and semi trucks unloading various products. As members we can view this in real time as Bel Aire has installed a web cam on top of the existing building. As usual Bel Aire is treating us very well. It's a pleasure to do business with all of the staff and we're excited about the future.

Ed and Phyllis


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## Karen G

Dutch43 said:


> we can view this in real time as Bel Aire has installed a web cam on top of the existing building.


Do you have a link for that?


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## Dutch43

*Bel Aire*

I do but it is my membership number and I will not divulge it on the internet.


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## california-bighorn

I have absolutely no interest in this Belair place, but owning a couple of timeshares in Mexico I do follow stories about timeshare fraud and this seems to be the most outlandish example I have ever heard. Since everything  "Dutch 43" and "steve esko" (probably the same person) states is contrary to what everyone else has seen and the photographic documentation, it appears they are either smoking some native weed or are part of the scam. Unfortunately for those who have invested, it appears to be the latter.


----------



## LuvVallarta

*Belaire Vacation Club*

Hi everyone! 

My husband and I were as concerned as many Belaire members.  To put the members minds at ease, I will say that we flew out to PVR to see  what was going on.  We were out there for nine days in March 2008.  We spoke to the owner, Antonio C. and my husband spoke to the engineer Gabriel who assured us that the breaking of the ground would take place on March 15, 2008.  They explained there were some problems that for that reason adjustments had to take place.  The project will be in two phases. One tower will be completed in 2009 and the second phase in 2010.  While there we met several other couples who also flew into PVR to inquire.  We are glad that we were able to put our minds at ease and I love Mexico and will be continuing to go out there as often as possible.  As far as the project, I love the concept and I have faith in Antonio C. who is aware that I will be revisiting the site again in the months to come.....so don't worry good things are worth waiting for---

Adios! M & E Valentin    (NYC)


----------



## Karen G

LuvVallarta said:


> We spoke to the owner, Antonio C. and my husband spoke to the engineer Gabriel who assured us that the breaking of the ground would take place on March 15, 2008.


 These
photos  from another website were taken on March 21.  They look identical to the February photos posted earlier on this thread.


----------



## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> I do but it is my membership number and I will not divulge it on the internet.



Dutch 43 I see that you are back in the building so please comment on the VASTLY important portion of the contract identified as Article 5.2 were it in any way protects the investors if you can.

Dutch 43 later we noticed in reading over our paperwork this item 
Quote “Article 5.2 “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote 

Excuse me Dutch 43, but IMHO the buildings and land IMHO would be about 95% of the assets inherit value and the contents etc as a worsr case situation might require a special assessment to get rid of them.


Dutch 43. I do not know if the non presale package regular Membership has the same clause in it as ours did. 

Dutch 43 if it does then the Regular Club Membership agreement IMHO does not seemingly offer much encouragement of getting much of your money back if as per contract if the Club is dissolved.

Dutch 43 the paperwork did not explain on how or what was needed to dislove the Club. We found that to be VERY unsettling. Dutch 43 please post as STATED IN THE CONTRACT what is needed to disolve this Club.

One reason Article 5.2 made us leery was that the Belaire spokespeople had made a big deal about pointing out the "guaranteed completion bond "that they said that they had to put up, but did not say anything about if the Club was sold or dissolved which we both found unsettling. Dutch 43 it was found buried the back in the paperwork packet. 

So Dutch43 please and try to :rofl: :rofl: explain Article 5.2 AWAY BUT you will not try as there is no answer.

Is  the former Mayan Palace tranier  Marcos still aboard. 

I am certain I will get either one of your red herring replys that again does not address address the important issue of Article 5.2 that IMHO sets up the buyers to get (*$^%^&*.

Bruce


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## california-bighorn

You can add the name "LuvVallarta" to Dutch 43 and steve esko in my earlier post. But I'm glad they got to get together with all their other imaginary friends who flew in to look at the location. Yeah right!!!


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## brucecz

california-bighorn said:


> You can add the name "LuvVallarta" to Dutch 43 and steve esko in my earlier post. But I'm glad they got to get together with all their other imaginary friends who flew in to look at the location. Yeah right!!!



Marty, I think we need to give Dutch 43 or any of the other "Buyers"  a little more time to try and explain away "Article 5.2 that states “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” 

They have only had about 4 1/2  months or so  to address  those concerns since I posted about "Article 5.2 “ back on November 15, 2007.

Does Minnesota, Puerto Vallarta and New York have the same email IP address by any chance?

Bruce


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## Dutch43

*Bel Aire*

My attorney looked over the contract and I pay them to give me sound advice. I certainly do not have to answer to anyone on this sight as to contract or real estate law. Tell your concerns to someone who knows the law.  I don't. Follow their expensive advice and quit trying to tell others what to do. We owners will enjoy our time in the sun and our investment.


----------



## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> My attorney looked over the contract and I pay them to give me sound advice. I certainly do not have to answer to anyone on this sight as to contract or real estate law. Tell your concerns to someone who knows the law.  I don't. Follow their expensive advice and quit trying to tell others what to do. We owners will enjoy our time in the sun and our investment.



And pray tell, what wisdom did they share with you?

Do you want your goat back?

Bruce :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Dutch43

*Bel Aire*

Bruce

Sorry I can't be online for awhile. Another couple that we're here with are joining us for a steak dinner at Bel Aire this evening. I'm sorry that you will have to eat crow ---- in more ways than one.


----------



## brucecz

Dutch43 said:


> Bruce
> 
> Sorry I can't be online for awhile. Another couple that we're here with are joining us for a steak dinner at Bel Aire this evening. I'm sorry that you will have to eat crow ---- in more ways than one.



They have only had about 4 1/2 months or so to address those concerns since I posted about "Article 5.2 “ back on November 15, 2007 and IMHO poor old Dutch 43 post a very weak reply because they can not effectively refute  "Article 5.2 “ so it appears he wants to dodge that FACT.

So Dutch 43 does his yada, yada, yada bit again. 

Bruce   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## pammex

hmm...a web cam of the construction, well I would assume that would be available for all to see via a public link.....

Article 5.2 , was a big issue with my husband as well, saying so if you go bust, we own nothing, nada!!!

One tower will be complete 2009 and another 2010, well I was told whole project would be complete in 15 months, so which is it...

LIverpool and the mall in PV were built quicker, along with home depot etc....this is beyond ridiculous.....

Seems like lurkers from Belair must certainly be posting here.....this is really sad.


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## pammex

oops forgot, internet use from PV would have an IP address from Mexico.....should be easy enough for a computer geek to check on that at maybe TUG or something.........................


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## wind

*Belaire as of March 08*

Yes, we bought into the Belaire. We were impressed by the large
well designed models in the new building. I bought at Mayan Palace
when it was just a palapa 10 years ago. The retaining wall looked 
finished when we were there. We were there 2 weeks staying at the Grand
Mayan. Tony and Neiko treated us well, and we had several good meals at
the restaurant there 
There were trucks bringing in fill and gravel. I sensed a frustration by
the staff of slow construction, but if your have any knowledge of construction projects, especially third world, you will realize they lag US standards and timing. How many partially completed buildings did you see around PV?  Very typical of  Mexico.  Maybe the principles did not realize the problems of doing construction in Mexico.  Maybe thats why Grupo Mayan has its own construction company.  With a foreign construction company, maybe the promise date will really happen.  Lets all hope for the best and give Belaire a chance.  We have also heard that the principles are looking at existing resorts to renovate and expand the Belaire empire.
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit and things may continue to slide but remember you bought at pre-construction pricing and took some risks.  It takes a lot of trust in the company to buy into such a promise and bit of vision to appreciate the future, but lets all hope the 'investment' pays off.
Wind


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## california-bighorn

*Belaire Scorecard*

Bruce, let's keep a scorecard of the 1st time posters coming "out of nowhere" and praising the Belaire. We now have "Dutch", "Steve", "LuvVallarta" and passing.... no it's just plain "Wind". Sounds like they have one hell of a restaurant there. Everyone comes from everywhere to meet there to forget about the real world. This would be comical except there are going to be many disappointed buyers. Good luck to all!!!


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## brucecz

The Belaire keeps setting new records for first time posters but none of them try to explain away  those concerns expressed by myself and others since I posted about "Article 5.2 “ back on November 15, 2007. 

:annoyed:    Dutch 43 posted a very weak   reply concerning "Article 5.2 “ and would not answer the question because he  and those others can not effectively  refute "Article 5.2 “ so it appears he trys to dodge that FACT.

Another striking similarity is most  but not all of the new posters do not list any other timeshares that they own. 

If the Belaire is built that "Article 5.2 “ is a timebomb in the near future that 
may explode and the buyers will not as per contract wording in "Article 5.2 “  receive any monies from the sale of the land and building.


This portion of of the contract states.
Quote "Article 5.2  states “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club” Unquote

I really hope the people who have truely bought  get what they are supposed to get.  I also hope the shill who was exposed in the first string  when their IP address turned out to be Puerto Vallarta instead of the US address gets what they deserve even though they may not want it.

Bruce


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## brucecz

california-bighorn said:


> Bruce, let's keep a scorecard of the 1st time posters coming "out of nowhere" and praising the Belaire. We now have "Dutch", "Steve", "LuvVallarta" and passing.... no it's just plain "Wind". Sounds like they have one hell of a restaurant there. Everyone comes from everywhere to meet there to forget about the real world. This would be comical except there are going to be many disappointed buyers. Good luck to all!!!




Marty, there may even more newbie posters on this first  Belaire string compared to this second Belaire string. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52034 
How many newbies are there counting both strings?

Bruce


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## Mule

Bruce, Why are you so negative only on Belaire?  I'm a owner of Grand Mayan and Belaire.  I have been on five Grand Mayan tours and they lie like a rug.  They lie and lie and lie.  They have lied so much everyone is sueing them.  Grand Mayan puts the Belaire to shame with the lies.  So lets be fair, they all lie to get your money. 

_I have removed comments that are political in nature as TUG rules prohibit political discussions. Karen G, Moderator_

  I have met you before and enjoy your knowledge, spread it evenly.  From a blonde blue eyed AMERICAN!! 

p.s.  I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!


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## Karen G

Mule said:


> I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!



I fail to see the logic in that statement, but to each his own!


----------



## brucecz

Lordy, another newbie poster. The newbie record  on this string just keeps on increasing. It is just amazing.

I am just reposting this main contract fact. I did not write up the seemingly one sided contract, the Belaire did and it is what it is.

If you and the others do not want to address this negative contract fact in the Bellaire contract by calling me negative that is OK with me as it shows they they can not over come or even try to explain away  that  ________ clause in their contract

A  portion of the the contract states.
Quote:   "Article 5.2 states “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club”  Unquote

So even if it is built the buyers IMHO are at gave risk with  Article 5.2  in the contract.

In regards to the Mayan Group, there are plenty of strings about the Mayan Group, but this string is about the Belaire. 

You bought up the Mayan and the types that work for them.

In regards to the Mayan, Marcos who last September who was a trainer for the Bellaire said he was a trainer for the Mayan Group after I asked him. 

One of his friends who does not work for the Belaire spilled the beans that he did in fact work for the Mayan. 

IMHO judging on what this Bellaire trainer tryed to pull on us after we recinded I belive he might have learned to use those same tactics at the Mayan in the same manner as he does  at the Belaire.

I have never personally met any one that calls them self mule. Were did we meet?

Bruce 





Mule said:


> Bruce, Why are you so negative only on Belaire?  I'm a owner of Grand Mayan and Belaire.  I have been on five Grand Mayan tours and they lie like a rug.  They lie and lie and lie.  They have lied so much everyone is sueing them.  Grand Mayan puts the Belaire to shame with the lies.  So lets be fair, they all lie to get your money.
> 
> _I have removed comments that are political in nature as TUG rules prohibit political discussions. Karen G, Moderator_
> 
> I have met you before and enjoy your knowledge, spread it evenly.  From a blonde blue eyed AMERICAN!!
> 
> p.s.  I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!


----------



## brucecz

Mule said:


> p.s.  I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!



Article 5.2 states “Quote Upon the dissolution of the Club, its assets, which DO NOT INCLUDE THE REAL PROPERTY, LAND OR BUILDINGS of the resort will be distributed to the members of the Club”

Bruce  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Mule

Bruce, I thought you were smart.  Maybe just greedy, maybe just want to rent your time shares you own. Do you think you own the land or building or anything with your timeshares.   Yes I finally posted after reading your continued crap about 5.2  Belaire is a TS and with all TS you own nothing. No Land  No building.  I know you Know this so why do you harp on 5.2  Is this all you can come up with?  Yes we have met, I'm good friends with the sales person who sold you Belaire and met you in PV  You act as if your all knowing but you push your own agenda to rent your TS.  I could post one time or a hundred whats the difference?  My point was most all TS people lie.  Im in Atlanta and would be happy to meet anyone face to face, but most people are cowards and only bad mouth others behind their backs with little knowlege of the facts.  Do you feel threatned by first time posters?  I think you are afraid Belaire will build and you will look the fool!


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## Mule

To Karen G.  Belaire claims they will buy back after resort is complete.  Maybe this will help you understand my statement.  Non Political thank you.


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## Karen G

Mule said:


> To Karen G.  Belaire claims they will buy back after resort is complete.  Maybe this will help you understand my statement.  Non Political thank you.


As you know, the statement I edited out of your post had to do with what you thought of American companies, yada yada yada.


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## brucecz

Mule said:


> Bruce, I thought you were smart.  Maybe just greedy, maybe just want to rent your time shares you own. Do you think you own the land or building or anything with your timeshares.   Yes I finally posted after reading your continued crap about 5.2  Belaire is a TS and with all TS you own nothing. No Land  No building.  I know you Know this so why do you harp on 5.2  Is this all you can come up with?  Yes we have met, I'm good friends with the sales person who sold you Belaire and met you in PV  You act as if your all knowing but you push your own agenda to rent your TS.  I could post one time or a hundred whats the difference?  My point was most all TS people lie.  Im in Atlanta and would be happy to meet anyone face to face, but most people are cowards and only bad mouth others behind their backs with little knowlege of the facts.  Do you feel threatned by first time posters?  I think you are afraid Belaire will build and you will look the fool!




Is that the best puffery you have on the 5,2.? 

You only know what they teach you.  Yes, property and building rights ownership is very important in a timeshare.  For you to say it isn't indicates a severe lack of  knowlegde or __________.

You need to reread your last post as you tripped your self up  a few times and you poked some more holes in your own story.

Yes, I do rentals and all of my customers get to use the units in one year or less after they have paid for the rental. They get what they paid for with me.

Its something the Belaire has not been able to do for thier buyers after over a year of selling and of  broken promises by the Bellaire  as posted by the buyers on this string and the first Belaire Tug string . 

No wonder the Belaire does  :rofl: not need  any maintenance fees.  Some of the other posters have not been able to do those exchanges promised by the Belaire.

The Belaire does not have any of the Belaire inventory to rent out as they did not honor that promise. Al lof my over 100 yearly weeks from our ownerships are fully paid for.  But thank you for the free ad plug. 

Yes, I am movided by profit, but I deliver the product as promised in my rental contracts unlike the many ongong broken usage, completion etc promises of the Belaire.

But the tax angle the Belaire is promoting is very sad will end hurting those buyers who bought for that reason. 

The 5.2 was important enough for the Bellaire to put into their contract but you, Dutch 43 or the rest your types will be allowed to over look  that important fact.

Oh, by the way your name calling instead of  addressing the reason behind that 5.2 does not impress anyone but your own group and does not help  your spin efforts.

You and your ilk are doing a good public service so keep posting  more attack nonsense and you will scare even more people off from buying at the Bellaire.

When I went out to the Bellaire a second time after I dropped the recission because of you friends Marcos lies they did had their chance to get in my face, but they passed.  The lie Marcos said was that we had to sign something in regard to our charge card which was BS and as true as your posts.

I am sort of pround of my self for not over reacting to your groups personal attacks  and I just keep posting mostly provable facts. Your personal attacks on me will not have the effect on me like the attacks on Greg in the first string.

Of course I post under my real name and not something like mule like you do. Of course if I was you I would not want people to know who I was. So if it makes you feel safe keep hiding in the dark.

Bruce


----------



## pammex

Oh my...oh my...Honestly I hope this works out as promised by Belair for those who bought.

A few notes on most recent posts though...

hahah....third world country NOT!!!!  Construction in Mexico with large companies or corporations is far from a slow process...please...I understand construction very well in Mexico, like anywhere it has it's hurdles, but if things are not proper and in place etc., then they should not be selling....How do I know construction, I have seen enough construction in Mexico to last me the rest of my life and barring any unforseen issue that will be quite some time...I am not even retirement age...I have built a home in Mexico, a large one, with a very small crew,( under 10 workers) ( without heavy equipment, all hand labor) in a very country bumpkin land as opposed to PV  area, it took one year start to finish, just as planned...

How interesting every single positive post is a guest...why?????

On the Mayan, yes I am an owner there too, they have buildings, grounds and units to utilize, as far a lies go well at least I can use it...and I can trade it, rent it, etc.  

Oh yes, Belair has no Maintenance fees but they do have a use fee....seems the same to me, just different wording....

It will be a happy day for me to hear the Belair is constructed and useable and not changing owners or dissolving and then the original owners would be out their dough, but until that happens, & the owners can use, trade or rent their units, & the company has not changed,  I would heed caution.....

Even many locals in PV are saying imagine taking 2 years to build a resort.....that says something....

Belair, since they have not kept their original agreement to complete construction by whatever date should have arrangements in place for exchanges but they do not as what exchange company is going to sign up a resort that has no units to offer in return.  

I do own at a resort here in Mexico and bought preconstruction and it was completed as promised, timely and efficient and mind you it is not on level land like Belair but on a cliff....

Okay so maybe Belair has met some hurdles well then some compensation for time lost in use of units is due to those who bought and have not been able to use as projected!


----------



## Mule

I have no idea if Belaire will live up to any of their promises.  Everyone bought pre-construction so unless your blind there is no inventory.  I to have invested in Mexico as well as other countries.  I have made lots of $ sometimes when they promised sometimes there were delays.  Karen, Im glad you have not had to experience any of this.  Ive built dozens of homes in the US and its nothing like a project the size of Belaire here or anywhere.

Thank you Bruce, I held my comments for over a year.  I jumped on you only because

1. You act like your a guru of TS, yet you purchased Belaire
2. You cancelled, got your money back,  so you are not a member
3. You have  little personal knowledge or timley facts about the project.
4. Every week you complain about Belaire just to push your own timeshares

There are members that have an real interest in whats going on at the Belaire and you pray on their fears to push your own agenda.

I just wanted Belaire members to know that your comments are self serving
you have no true knowledge of the project and that you are just another
S   ZY TIME SHARE BROKER!  The apple does not fall far from the tree :hysterical: :hysterical: Im sure you know more about TS than I and thats where it ends!  If you would like to meet again I will arrange for you to come to Georgia and ride the mule!!!


----------



## Mule

Im sorry my comment was for pammex


----------



## Mule

Pammex.  Grand Mayan had pre-constuction pricing  at all of their resorts!  Plus most if not all Belaire members traded their weeks for 2008 for $ off the purchase price.  So if there was a completed resort you still would have nothing to trade until 2009.  I have seen many commercial projects here in the US that were delayed for one reason or another, sometimes for years!    We as members do appreciate comments from you and any person that has timely first hand knowledge of the project without pushing your own greedy agenda like other tug members


----------



## brucecz

Mule said:


> Bruce, Why are you so negative only on Belaire?  I'm a owner of Grand Mayan and Belaire.  I have been on five Grand Mayan tours and they lie like a rug.  They lie and lie and lie.  They have lied so much everyone is sueing them.  Grand Mayan puts the Belaire to shame with the lies.  So lets be fair, they all lie to get your money.
> 
> _I have removed comments that are political in nature as TUG rules prohibit political discussions. Karen G, Moderator_
> 
> I have met you before and enjoy your knowledge, spread it evenly.  From a blonde blue eyed AMERICAN!!
> 
> p.s.  I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!



If you bought that many times from the Mayan  and now exspect to recoup those loses  buying from the Bellaire that IMHO shows your so called investing timeshare  "Smarts" or your true agenda.

I saw your political comment and I feel sorry for you but that  rationalization in coming from you did not surprize me. 

 I wish the moderator would have left it in so the group see it and understand to what depths you  have sank to to jusify  the actions  of your self and the MO of the Belaire.


I think my contant referance to the Belaire contract item 5.2  FACT will have  you try to made more personal attacks seeing that you can not :ignore: explain that 5.2 mousetrap cluase away.

In the post above you give me credit for having knowlegde but later recant.

The only  friend I met of Marcos was a native lady of PV that has dark hair and dark eyes so your claim of meeting me lacks any type of creability at this time especially as you want to stay in the dark on who you are.

Bruce


----------



## brucecz

In reply to your error prone and fact twisting posting that I am quoting from  below that have of to show some of those are proveable untruths posted by you. It will be interesting to see your spins in reply.

Your timeframe mentioned is proveably wrong when you say that you posted Quote  "Thank you Bruce, I held my comments for over a year.  I jumped on you only because".  Seeing that my first post on the first Belaire was made on November 15, 2007 that is less than 6 months ago at this point in time.It appears you do not let even proveable  facts get in the way of your posting.


1. As soon as I read through the signing documents and read contact item  Articale 5.2 I like other Tuggers who read Articale recinded PDQ.

I do not claim or have ever implyed that I am a timeshare  guru  but I have owned over 50 differant ownerships during the past 8 or so years and have done ok.

There are quite a few on Tug and timeshareforums who I freely admitt know far more than I about  all around timesharing . But unfotunately for you, you are judging from your own  postings not even remotely close to being one of those seeing how in your posts you claim to have been screwed a few times by the Mayan group. 


2. Correct I did cancell but I have kept all the contract paper work and after realized  that the contract  Articale item 5.2 contained in that paperwork does not give the owners any protection. So you claim about about us not being a member does not negate the fact that contract Articale 5.2 contained in that paperwork does not give the owners any protection if the club is disovled in getting their money back.

3. Seeing others have been posting timely updates about the lack of progress at the Belaire since we were there over a half a year ago your assertion is is correct and self serving for your agenda.  Besides we will be in PV again in a few months and we will drive by and do some picture taking.

4.Seeing that untill January of this year was the first time we directly bought a PV ownership  and now have bought a second one in March, 2008. We first posted back on November 15, 2007  on the first Bellaire string.  We do have 3 other club ownerships that give us ownership rights in PV.

But those possable 5 weeks are less than 5% of the yearly ownership weeks we use each year so more than 95% of our timeshare interests and efforts are not in PV. 

But your agenda and I quote you from one of your recent posts on this string Quote" p.s. I only bought at Belaire to recoup the money the Grand Mayan ripped me off for with their monster lies!!!!!!!!Unquote.


Yours agenda unlike your  claim below is to use me to hide your agenda despite  your  claim Quote" I just wanted Belaire members to know that your comments are self serving
you have no true knowledge of the project and that you are just another
S   ZY TIME SHARE BROKER! " Unquote.

Your claim that you meet me and that you live in Georgia is very doudtfull to say the least seeing you are afraid to give your real name like I do. 

100% of  your posts on Tug are of the Belaire while I had about 1,000 posts on Tug even before the first Belaire string.

Your hiding in the dark and not identifying your self IMHO while making a lot of bogus and untruthfull claims seems to serve your true agenda of promoting the Belaire while IMHO making personal attacks to try and mask the problem of the contract Articale item 5.2  and all of the unkept promises made so far by the Belaire.

But your claim that 





Mule said:


> I have no idea if Belaire will live up to any of their promises." Unquote IMHO is scary for any one that has sunk money in the Belaire to make money.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea if Belaire will live up to any of their promises.  Everyone bought pre-construction so unless your blind there is no inventory.  I to have invested in Mexico as well as other countries.  I have made lots of $ sometimes when they promised sometimes there were delays.  Karen, Im glad you have not had to experience any of this.  Ive built dozens of homes in the US and its nothing like a project the size of Belaire here or anywhere.
> 
> Thank you Bruce, I held my comments for over a year.  I jumped on you only because
> 
> 1. You act like your a guru of TS, yet you purchased Belaire
> 2. You cancelled, got your money back,  so you are not a member
> 3. You have  little personal knowledge or timley facts about the project.
> 4. Every week you complain about Belaire just to push your own timeshares
> 
> There are members that have an real interest in whats going on at the Belaire and you pray on their fears to push your own agenda.
> 
> 
> I just wanted Belaire members to know that your comments are self serving
> you have no true knowledge of the project and that you are just another
> S   ZY TIME SHARE BROKER!  The apple does not fall far from the tree :hysterical: :hysterical: Im sure you know more about TS than I and thats where it ends!  If you would like to meet again I will arrange for you to come to Georgia and ride the mule!!!
Click to expand...


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## Karen G

*Time to close this thread*

The time has come to close down this thread because it has become mostly personal attacks and the same information is being repeated and repeated. Everyone seems to have made his/her point and I don't see any value to letting this go on.

I'm not going to delete the thread because there is a lot of valuable information and photos.

If new information becomes available about Bellaire, feel free to start a new thread, but please keep personal attacks out of it.


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