# DVC resale



## Mosescan (Feb 16, 2018)

ive been considering buying some DVC but haven’t really seen a lot for sale. Where does one find DVC for sale?


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## Pathways (Feb 16, 2018)

5 major re-sellers -  start with this one:  www.dvcresalemarket.com.


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## alwysonvac (Feb 16, 2018)

The Timeshare Store is the biggest - http://www.dvc-resales.com/
Fidelity Resales - https://www.fidelityresales.com/disney-timeshares

_NOTE: I’ve used the Timeshare Store a number of times for DVC.
_
DVC related Sites
Disboards - https://www.disboards.com/forums/disney-vacation-club-forums.200/
DVC ROFR  thread https://www.disboards.com/threads/r...ost-for-instructions-formatting-tool.3655341/
Mouseowners - http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/
DVC News - http://www.dvcnews.com/


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## bendadin (Feb 17, 2018)

I watched this one https://www.disneydvcresale.com/ though it doesn't have all of the resellers. I used DVC Resale Market and Fidelity. I've also enjoyed my DVC benefits so much that we did a 50 direct contract.

Personally I think that all of the grandfathered dates is beginning to get out of control and they may have to stop with the interim reduction in point usage and just make one before/after date. I'm not a fan that I can't reach the Moonlight Magic parties with my resale contracts party night reservations even though they were grandfathered. Also, I just bought 50 and now they say 75 direct points. If things realign and I need another 25 to get those benefits, I would do it. I've purchased 15 DVC Gold passes and attended most of the Moonlight Magic parties.


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## Arimaas (Mar 7, 2018)

What's the difference in benefits between a resale and developer DVC purchase?


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## Mosescan (Mar 7, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> What's the difference in benefits between a resale and developer DVC purchase?


With resale you just get the timeshare. None of the extras like cheap passes or the ability to use points for extras like hotels and cruises.


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## Arimaas (Mar 7, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> With resale you just get the timeshare. None of the extras like cheap passes or the ability to use points for extras like hotels and cruises.



You still get early access to the parks, fast pass front of the line, etc?

Is using the points for anything but the timeshares advisable in DVC?

I took a quick look at 100 points resale DVC on the website above, about $15K. Friend of mine just bought DVC 100 points developer for $19k, honestly, not much of a difference between the two. I bet the $15K resale is getting close to what they paid for it in the resale.


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## Dean (Mar 7, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> You still get early access to the parks, fast pass front of the line, etc?
> 
> Is using the points for anything but the timeshares advisable in DVC?
> 
> I took a quick look at 100 points resale DVC on the website above, about $15K. Friend of mine just bought DVC 100 points developer for $19k, honestly, not much of a difference between the two. I bet the $15K resale is getting close to what they paid for it in the resale.


You get all perks c/w staying on property like early/late access, free park parking and the like including the BLT lounge..  You lose out on the option to trade for DCL, ABC, Disney hotels and the concierge collection.  You also lose out on the shopping/dining discounts, pass discounts, EPCOT long, access to the members cruises and access to member events.  The 2010 set of restrictions removed the cash exchange options and IMO did the members a favor.  The 2016 restrictions removed the other items and any future benefits.  The 2018 change to 75 pts to qualify essentially made it where buying FOR the perks/discounts was essentially never going to be reasonable unless buying retail without the perks would make sense.  You still get RCI access.


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## Mosescan (Mar 8, 2018)

Arimaas said:


> You still get early access to the parks, fast pass front of the line, etc?
> 
> Is using the points for anything but the timeshares advisable in DVC?
> 
> I took a quick look at 100 points resale DVC on the website above, about $15K. Friend of mine just bought DVC 100 points developer for $19k, honestly, not much of a difference between the two. I bet the $15K resale is getting close to what they paid for it in the resale.


You can get resale much cheaper than that. I just bought a loaded contract at AKV for $110/ point. After I rent my 2017 points for $14 each my cost is $96/point. If I rent the 2018 points as well, after maintenance fees I’ll clear $7/point bringing my cost down to $89/point. As I’m not likely to use it until at least 2019 that’s what I’ll likely do. Current developer prices are over $180/point so I’m at about 50%. I’m ok with less perks for that savings. Whether I buy a 75 point add on will depend on how much my kids like Disney. We’re doing our first trip for 2 weeks this Christmas, staying off property. My kids will be 5 & 1 1/2 so lots of trips in our future.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 8, 2018)

I bought Aulani for $82.50 per point through Fidelity Resales https://www.fidelityresales.com. This is less than half the direct price. I bought Grand Cal for $161 resale through https://www.dvcresalemarket.com. DVC was not selling Grand Cal last year and they told me to buy resale. At the time, this seemed high but now Grand Cal is $235 direct and quickly increasing on the resale market. I bought my other contracts for VGF, AK and Poly directly from DVC because the price delta at the time for small contracts was not that different in terms of total cost. But I am not as price sensitive as the typical Tugger.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 8, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> ive been considering buying some DVC but haven’t really seen a lot for sale. Where does one find DVC for sale?



Did your Animal Kingdom offer pass ROFR?


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## Mosescan (Mar 8, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> Did your Animal Kingdom offer pass ROFR?


It just finally got submitted on Tuesday so it’ll be another week at least. More likely 2 weeks


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## frank808 (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You can get resale much cheaper than that. I just bought a loaded contract at AKV for $110/ point. After I rent my 2017 points for $14 each my cost is $96/point. If I rent the 2018 points as well, after maintenance fees I’ll clear $7/point bringing my cost down to $89/point. As I’m not likely to use it until at least 2019 that’s what I’ll likely do. Current developer prices are over $180/point so I’m at about 50%. I’m ok with less perks for that savings. Whether I buy a 75 point add on will depend on how much my kids like Disney. We’re doing our first trip for 2 weeks this Christmas, staying off property. My kids will be 5 & 1 1/2 so lots of trips in our future.


Is seller covering closing costs?

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

frank808 said:


> Is seller covering closing costs?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


For Disney? Not in this market. Lol! I wish.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You can get resale much cheaper than that. I just bought a loaded contract at AKV for $110/ point. After I rent my 2017 points for $14 each my cost is $96/point. If I rent the 2018 points as well, after maintenance fees I’ll clear $7/point bringing my cost down to $89/point. As I’m not likely to use it until at least 2019 that’s what I’ll likely do. Current developer prices are over $180/point so I’m at about 50%. I’m ok with less perks for that savings. Whether I buy a 75 point add on will depend on how much my kids like Disney. We’re doing our first trip for 2 weeks this Christmas, staying off property. My kids will be 5 & 1 1/2 so lots of trips in our future.



This is an interesting way to recalculate the cost per point. In this case, I could rent out all my points for a few years. Then I can start using them after I get my buy-in costs down to 75% or heck, why not go for 50%. LOL


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> This is an interesting way to recalculate the cost per point. In this case, I could rent out all my points for a few years. Then I can start using them after I get my buy-in costs down to 75% or heck, why not go for 50%. LOL


my purchase will actually be self sustaining and eventually pay for itself. I will have 320 points. maintenance fees are around $7 and I can rent points out for $14. The years I don't use my points I will make profit to pay back initial buy in cost. the years we go, we'll stay in a studio for less than half my points and rent the rest to break even. Over 20 years, if we go 7 times, I will have recouped all my costs and still have my points.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> my purchase will actually be self sustaining and eventually pay for itself. I will have 320 points. maintenance fees are around $7 and I can rent points out for $14. The years I don't use my points I will make profit to pay back initial buy in cost. the years we go, we'll stay in a studio for less than half my points and rent the rest to break even. Over 20 years, if we go 7 times, I will have recouped all my costs and still have my points.



Technically, all DVC point sales work like this. Some people rent out points and most people prefer to use their points themselves for personal enjoyment. Everyone can do what you are doing. Am I missing something? Why is yours self sustaining compared to anyone else?


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Because I have twice as many points as I need for a 1 week stay, so even on the years we stay for a week I don't have to pay maintenance fees. I can rent half my points to cover all my maintenance fees.  From what I can see a lot of people buy smaller contracts and bank and borrow for a stay. That means they are using more than 1 years worth of points for a 1 week stay and so if you own a 100 point contract and bank and borrow to get 150 points for a stay then they have to pay their maintenance fees themselves for that stay. In my case as I have 320 points and need less than 150 for a 1 week studio in the summer then I can rent my extra points for enough to cover my fees. Points rent for slightly more than twice my maintenance fees. On the years we don't go then I recoup $7/point on my initial purchase price. In the long run this will pay for my contract. If I had purchased a smaller contract I could get the same amount of stays but would be paying my own maintenance fees. In 20 years I should have recouped all my initial investment costs without having to pay any more money for maintenance fees ever. The only time I will have to pay maintenance fees is if we want to stay longer or in a 1 or 2 BR unit. Otherwise in 20 years if I can sell my points for what I paid then I will have actually made money and vacationed for free.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Because I have twice as many points as I need for a 1 week stay, so even on the years we stay for a week I don't have to pay maintenance fees. I can rent half my points to cover all my maintenance fees.  From what I can see a lot of people buy smaller contracts and bank and borrow for a stay. That means they are using more than 1 years worth of points for a 1 week stay and so if you own a 100 point contract and bank and borrow to get 150 points for a stay then they have to pay their maintenance fees themselves for that stay. In my case as I have 320 points and need less than 150 for a 1 week studio in the summer then I can rent my extra points for enough to cover my fees. Points rent for slightly more than twice my maintenance fees. On the years we don't go then I recoup $7/point on my initial purchase price. In the long run this will pay for my contract. If I had purchased a smaller contract I could get the same amount of stays but would be paying my own maintenance fees. In 20 years I should have recouped all my initial investment costs without having to pay any more money for maintenance fees ever. The only time I will have to pay maintenance fees is if we want to stay longer or in a 1 or 2 BR unit. Otherwise in 20 years if I can sell my points for what I paid then I will have actually made money and vacationed for free.



I think this is true for anyone, regardless of contract size. DVC points are in such high demand on the rental market that I think any amount of points we don't use can be rented out. Perhaps other more experienced DVC owners can chime in here? Dean, what do you think?


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> I think this is true for anyone, regardless of contract size. DVC points are in such high demand on the rental market that I think any amount of points we don't use can be rented out. Perhaps other more experienced DVC owners can chime in here? Dean, what do you think?


Yes, but you can’t rent what you spent! If you have a small contract you can certainly rent them out to cover your maintenance fees but then you never get to use the yourself. In order to do what I’m doing you have to have twice as many points as you need in any one year. That way the year you use is free and other years you make money.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Yes, but you can’t rent what you spent! If you have a small contract you can certainly rent them out to cover your maintenance fees but then you never get to use the yourself. In order to do what I’m doing you have to have twice as many points as you need in any one year. That way the year you use is free and other years you make money.



This does not make sense to me. I do not think contract size matters. If you have 4-5 contracts worth 320 points or 1 contract worth 320 point, it’s the same thing. You might pay a little more in closing costs but you also gain 11 month booking advantage at multiple resorts for your own usage. With multiple contracts, you just rent out unused points. Same as what you are doing. However, remember, most DVC buyers do not care about what you care about. They are buying to use. We bought to use. We have 470 points. We could care less about renting to cover our MFs. We only care about renting if we can’t use all of our points. Frankly, if anyone is buying extra points just to rent them out, I would say there are better ways to make money!


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> This does not make sense to me. I do not think contract size matters. If you have 4-5 contracts worth 320 points or 1 contract worth 320 point, it’s the same thing. You might pay a little more in closing costs but you also gain 11 month booking advantage at multiple resorts for your own usage. With multiple contracts, you just rent out unused points. Same as what you are doing. However, remember, most DVC buyers do not care about what you care about. They are buying to use. We bought to use. We have 470 points. We could care less about renting to cover our MFs. We only care about renting if we can’t use all of our points. Frankly, if anyone is buying extra points just to rent them out, I would say there are better ways to make money!


You’re right, it’s not about contract size per se, it’s about total points. If you own 2x more points than you need then you can stay for free every year. Use half, rent half. But if you have just enough points for your stay every year you can’t do that. You could go every other year and cover your Maint fee that way. In my case I look at it like this. If I pay $100/point and rent my points for a profit of $7/point then I’m making a 7% dividend on my points(shares) during the years when I don’t go. Do that 14 times and you’ve got your initial purchase price back. The years I do go I will break even. In the end I can take my kids 6 times to Disney for free! And sell my points after 20 years for a clear profit no matter what I get for them. 

Why pay to go to Disney if I can go for free. 

With any timeshares, if you own the right units you can rent some to cover the maintenance fees on all. That way you can vacation for free.


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## Dean (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Because I have twice as many points as I need for a 1 week stay, so even on the years we stay for a week I don't have to pay maintenance fees. I can rent half my points to cover all my maintenance fees.  From what I can see a lot of people buy smaller contracts and bank and borrow for a stay. That means they are using more than 1 years worth of points for a 1 week stay and so if you own a 100 point contract and bank and borrow to get 150 points for a stay then they have to pay their maintenance fees themselves for that stay. In my case as I have 320 points and need less than 150 for a 1 week studio in the summer then I can rent my extra points for enough to cover my fees. Points rent for slightly more than twice my maintenance fees. On the years we don't go then I recoup $7/point on my initial purchase price. In the long run this will pay for my contract. If I had purchased a smaller contract I could get the same amount of stays but would be paying my own maintenance fees. In 20 years I should have recouped all my initial investment costs without having to pay any more money for maintenance fees ever. The only time I will have to pay maintenance fees is if we want to stay longer or in a 1 or 2 BR unit. Otherwise in 20 years if I can sell my points for what I paid then I will have actually made money and vacationed for free.


Buying extra points specifically to rent out doesn't make sense but sometimes one needs more later or finds a contract that's too good to pass up.



Jayco29D said:


> This does not make sense to me. I do not think contract size matters. If you have 4-5 contracts worth 320 points or 1 contract worth 320 point, it’s the same thing. You might pay a little more in closing costs but you also gain 11 month booking advantage at multiple resorts for your own usage. With multiple contracts, you just rent out unused points. Same as what you are doing. However, remember, most DVC buyers do not care about what you care about. They are buying to use. We bought to use. We have 470 points. We could care less about renting to cover our MFs. We only care about renting if we can’t use all of our points. Frankly, if anyone is buying extra points just to rent them out, I would say there are better ways to make money!


That assumes they are all the same home resort and UY.  If they are smaller it is not the same, it might be better or worse depending on specifics.


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Dean said:


> Buying extra points specifically to rent out doesn't make sense but sometimes one needs more later or finds a contract that's too good to pass up.


To me it makes sense if you can afford the initial purchase without borrowing money. I stay for free every year and have enough points to bring family along if we want. The years we don’t go I pay back my initial purchase. As my kids are 4 yo and 7 mo I have no idea if they will even like Disney. This method hedges my bet so I’ll never lose money.


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## Dean (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> To me it makes sense if you can afford the initial purchase without borrowing money. I stay for free every year and have enough points to bring family along if we want. The years we don’t go I pay back my initial purchase. As my kids are 4 yo and 7 mo I have no idea if they will even like Disney. This method hedges my bet so I’ll never lose money.


Just as an investment it will be more risky and have a lower long term return than simply buying the lower amount of points and investing the difference.  Otherwise if one thinks it makes sense they should be thousands rather than hundreds.  As I noted, there are other reasons it might make sense but not as a financial investment IMO.


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## Mosescan (Mar 9, 2018)

Dean said:


> Just as an investment it will be more risky and have a lower long term return than simply buying the lower amount of points and investing the difference.  Otherwise if one thinks it makes sense they should be thousands rather than hundreds.  As I noted, there are other reasons it might make sense but not as a financial investment IMO.


You are 100 % correct. From a financial standpoint it makes absolutely no sense. The $50k in stocks I’m selling to make this purchase would, conservatively be worth $200k in 20 years. If I’m lucky and can sell my points for what I paid for them in 20 years I will have my original $50k back and $50k more and have had 6 or 7 weeks of free Disney vacations. But what I’m investing in is memories with my family. If I’m lucky I’ll get to spend a few years with my grandchildren before I die. I’ll be 49 this year so to me, family memories for my kids is more important than money.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Dean said:


> Just as an investment it will be more risky and have a lower long term return than simply buying the lower amount of points and investing the difference.  Otherwise if one thinks it makes sense they should be thousands rather than hundreds.  As I noted, there are other reasons it might make sense but not as a financial investment IMO.



I agree with Dean here. Buy Disney stock (or another stock) if you want a good return on investment. Or buy a mutual fund. Over the long run, the stock market is the best investment. Or buy a house and rent it out to cover your mortgage. I could argue my points are all free too since we made most of our money “for free” in the stock market. I guess everything we own is free if I looked at it the way Mosescan is looking at this.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 9, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You are 100 % correct. From a financial standpoint it makes absolutely no sense. The $50k in stocks I’m selling to make this purchase would, conservatively be worth $200k in 20 years. If I’m lucky and can sell my points for what I paid for them in 20 years I will have my original $50k back and $50k more and have had 6 or 7 weeks of free Disney vacations. But what I’m investing in is memories with my family. If I’m lucky I’ll get to spend a few years with my grandchildren before I die. I’ll be 49 this year so to me, family memories for my kids is more important than money.



I agree with this. The only reason to buy DVC is to enjoy yourself and make memories. All of us may have nothing left from our initial investment in DVC points in 20 years. We will be lucky if we get something back when we are ready to sell our contracts.


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## frank808 (Mar 10, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Because I have twice as many points as I need for a 1 week stay, so even on the years we stay for a week I don't have to pay maintenance fees. I can rent half my points to cover all my maintenance fees.  From what I can see a lot of people buy smaller contracts and bank and borrow for a stay. That means they are using more than 1 years worth of points for a 1 week stay and so if you own a 100 point contract and bank and borrow to get 150 points for a stay then they have to pay their maintenance fees themselves for that stay. In my case as I have 320 points and need less than 150 for a 1 week studio in the summer then I can rent my extra points for enough to cover my fees. Points rent for slightly more than twice my maintenance fees. On the years we don't go then I recoup $7/point on my initial purchase price. In the long run this will pay for my contract. If I had purchased a smaller contract I could get the same amount of stays but would be paying my own maintenance fees. In 20 years I should have recouped all my initial investment costs without having to pay any more money for maintenance fees ever. The only time I will have to pay maintenance fees is if we want to stay longer or in a 1 or 2 BR unit. Otherwise in 20 years if I can sell my points for what I paid then I will have actually made money and vacationed for free.



Assumption that you will always get at least $7 a point more than your maintenance fee.  If you do make $7 profit then you are looking at a roi of 5% over a 20 year period.  Plus whatever the points will be worth with 20 years left before they expire.  Yearly profit does not take into consideration taxes and such.  

Too many ifs for me.  About 4 years ago rental rates were about $10-$11 and profit was about $5 a point.  Me, i wouldnt buy DVC points as a financial investment to make a profit.  I would rather invest in an index fund for 20 years.

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## Mosescan (Mar 10, 2018)

frank808 said:


> Assumption that you will always get at least $7 a point more than your maintenance fee.  If you do make $7 profit then you are looking at a roi of 5% over a 20 year period.  Plus whatever the points will be worth with 20 years left before they expire.  Yearly profit does not take into consideration taxes and such.
> 
> Too many ifs for me.  About 4 years ago rental rates were about $10-$11 and profit was about $5 a point.  Me, i wouldnt buy DVC points as a financial investment to make a profit.  I would rather invest in an index fund for 20 years.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


You are correct. I didn’t buy them as a financial investment. In fact I’m selling $50k worth of shares to pay for them. I bought them for my family to have some great vacations and build lasting memories. Rather than buying just enough points to have my vacations and having to pay money in maintenance fees every year, I bought enough so that we can vacation and rent the remaining points to pay all maintenance fees. With that many points, even after I retire and my income is fixed, I’ll still be able to afford this timeshare. Between my HGVC and Disney TS I have almost $7k/yr in maintenance fees. By renting some of my Disney and a couple of my HGVC units, I have <$2k and can still take some great vacations. And as they are almost all resale, they should come pretty close to holding their value.


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## Dean (Mar 10, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You are correct. I didn’t buy them as a financial investment. In fact I’m selling $50k worth of shares to pay for them. I bought them for my family to have some great vacations and build lasting memories. Rather than buying just enough points to have my vacations and having to pay money in maintenance fees every year, I bought enough so that we can vacation and rent the remaining points to pay all maintenance fees. With that many points, even after I retire and my income is fixed, I’ll still be able to afford this timeshare. Between my HGVC and Disney TS I have almost $7k/yr in maintenance fees. By renting some of my Disney and a couple of my HGVC units, I have <$2k and can still take some great vacations. And as they are almost all resale, they should come pretty close to holding their value.


IMO there are valid reasons to buy extra points and some of those may lead to renting in some situations or for a period of time.  But simply financially the numbers compared to risk doesn't work.  Buying extra just to pay dues is simply a financial investment and the numbers don't work there long term compare to the risk.  DVC is a high risk investment and if I'm going to do it as such, I want a return of principle over no longer than 10 years AND a 20% return.  If it made sense to buy 100 or 150 extra just to pay maintenance fees, it'd make sense to buy 5000 to rent.  But there are situations where it does potentially make sense to rent where there are other benefits.  They would include when it allows you to buy a full sized contract, say 150-170 rather than smaller, when you may need more later but not now and the contract parameters make that reasonable (say you find a great 250 pt contract but only need 150 now), for a periodic larger trip that you can't do with a smaller contract like a big trip every 4 years (at 3 years you can make it work without having to rent) and in some cases, to have additional home resort priority.


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## Dean (Mar 10, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> You are 100 % correct. From a financial standpoint it makes absolutely no sense. The $50k in stocks I’m selling to make this purchase would, conservatively be worth $200k in 20 years. If I’m lucky and can sell my points for what I paid for them in 20 years I will have my original $50k back and $50k more and have had 6 or 7 weeks of free Disney vacations. But what I’m investing in is memories with my family. If I’m lucky I’ll get to spend a few years with my grandchildren before I die. I’ll be 49 this year so to me, family memories for my kids is more important than money.


I wanted to address this separately because it's a position I see from time to time with DVC, generally not as much with other timeshares..  This is far more general than your post but it's a good place to get this issue out there.  I believe that often people take a leave on math and sometimes, from their senses in general, buying DVC (or keeping it) in the name of memories.  It might take the form of financing DVC or buying a higher end resort, or more points or just buying DVC in general.  DVC, and any timeshare, needs to be money one could throw away and not miss it financially.  They want to use the memories as a trump card and I don't buy it.  One can and should have lots of good memories with or without DVC.  DVC is only a tool to savings to an on property housing option, no more and no less.  

I think you'd be extremely lucky if you could sell your points in 20 years for what you paid and I think it's essentially guaranteed you couldn't indexed for inflation but one shouldn't buy to resell, they should buy to use.  However, it is smart to at least consider an exit strategy if it's truly needed later and unexpected.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 10, 2018)

Dean said:


> I wanted to address this separately because it's a position I see from time to time with DVC, generally not as much with other timeshares..  This is far more general than your post but it's a good place to get this issue out there.  I believe that often people take a leave on math and sometimes, from their senses in general, buying DVC (or keeping it) in the name of memories.  It might take the form of financing DVC or buying a higher end resort, or more points or just buying DVC in general.  DVC, and any timeshare, needs to be money one could throw away and not miss it financially.  They want to use the memories as a trump card and I don't buy it.  One can and should have lots of good memories with or without DVC.  DVC is only a tool to savings to an on property housing option, no more and no less.
> 
> I think you'd be extremely lucky if you could sell your points in 20 years for what you paid and I think it's essentially guaranteed you couldn't indexed for inflation but one shouldn't buy to resell, they should buy to use.  However, it is smart to at least consider an exit strategy if it's truly needed later and unexpected.



The only reason I bought into DVC is to make unique Disney-oriented memories with the kids while staying onsite at the Disney resorts. I preferred the DVC membership over other alternatives. It was not a financial investment nor did I see it as a money saver. If saving money were the primary motivator, I would not buy DVC or go anywhere. We could stay home and make memories watching Disney movies in our family room (which we do, BTW). We purchased DVC and all our timeshares to use ourselves and with money we know we may never recoup. If we have points or weeks we can’t use ourselves, then we will bank or rent it out. We plan many vacations and we make many types of memories at various places. Of course, you don’t need to buy into a DVC timeshare to make Disney memories. People go to Disney primarily for fun and memories, regardless of whether they pay a small fortune upfront to buy DVC points, pay exorbitant nightly rates using cash to stay on site, or choose to save money by staying offsite. In our case, I believe my spouse and I will enjoy our experience more as DVC members staying onsite. We would not go at all if we had to stay offsite and fight the traffic and crowds with no place to take a break during the day. The kids do not care where we stay so we did it so we could balance convenience and semi-luxury with fun for the kids. So our choices were buy DVC or pay cash as we go. We decided the DVC membership sounded more fun and we liked a lot of things about it.


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## Dean (Mar 10, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> The only reason I bought into DVC is to make unique Disney-oriented memories with the kids while staying onsite at the Disney resorts. I preferred the DVC membership over other alternatives. It was not a financial investment nor did I see it as a money saver. If saving money were the primary motivator, I would not buy DVC or go anywhere. We could stay home and make memories watching Disney movies in our family room (which we do, BTW). We purchased DVC and all our timeshares to use ourselves and with money we know we may never recoup. If we have points or weeks we can’t use ourselves, then we will bank or rent it out. We plan many vacations and we make many types of memories at various places. Of course, you don’t need to buy into a DVC timeshare to make Disney memories. People go to Disney primarily for fun and memories, regardless of whether they pay a small fortune upfront to buy DVC points, pay exorbitant nightly rates using cash to stay on site, or choose to save money by staying offsite. In our case, I believe my spouse and I will enjoy our experience more as DVC members staying onsite. We would not go at all if we had to stay offsite and fight the traffic and crowds with no place to take a break during the day. The kids do not care where we stay so we did it so we could balance convenience and semi-luxury with fun for the kids. So our choices were buy DVC or pay cash as we go. We decided the DVC membership sounded more fun and we liked a lot of things about it.


It seems you view this as an all or none, either off property or DVC.  And in large part my point is that there are both a number of options and a number of ways to get there.  I've owned DVC since 1994 and we have many stays a year on average with as many as ten 1 & 2 BR villas between BWV & BCV at one time.  I'd estimate that at least 80% of our stays and 90% of the room nights have been by exchange.  Specific to buying DVC, unless DVC saves money over either a private rental or what you would do if you didn't own there OR it doesn't add a true additional value that has some monetary component; it makes no sense to buy.  To pay more just to own at DVC than you could do so by private rental would be foolish.  Certainly it's going to be more expensive in many cases than off property though not always so.  And there is a spread between off property and DVC where it'd would be unreasonable to participate but that's more of a personal preference.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 10, 2018)

Dean said:


> It seems you view this as an all or none, either off property or DVC.  And in large part my point is that there are both a number of options and a number of ways to get there.  I've owned DVC since 1994 and we have many stays a year on average with as many as ten 1 & 2 BR villas between BWV & BCV at one time.  I'd estimate that at least 80% of our stays and 90% of the room nights have been by exchange.  Specific to buying DVC, unless DVC saves money over either a private rental or what you would do if you didn't own there OR it doesn't add a true additional value that has some monetary component; it makes no sense to buy.  To pay more just to own at DVC than you could do so by private rental would be foolish.  Certainly it's going to be more expensive in many cases than off property though not always so.  And there is a spread between off property and DVC where it'd would be unreasonable to participate but that's more of a personal preference.



I am a happy DVC member/owner with both resale and direct points. My point is that DVC is foolish to buy, period. The only reason to buy is for non-monetary reasons. The breakeven point is far off compared to many alternatives. Those of us fools (me included) who do buy at DVC try to enjoy it to the fullest - and recognize we will be lucky if we get most of our upfront purchases costs back when we sell. It is a premium product compared to other wonderful vacations we can spend our money on. Given your financial values, I do not understand why you visit Disney when it’s a foolish place to own and go. It is one of the most expensive money-sucking vacations in the world. So why did you buy DVC and why do you keep going back to the Capital of America’s consumerism? (I am exaggerating for emphasis.)

It is like why do people pay a premium to buy a Tiffany diamond necklace over a non-branded necklace? There are other reasons. Like your spouse can untie the ribbon on the blue box. LOL Most economists realize that consumer decision making is irrational from an economic point of view. And marketers capitalize on that - especially Disney!

If Tuggers really want to focus solely on the most sound financial ways for vacationing, then buy the cheapest and best week you can get on the resale market that you will use every year or, better yet, rent and don't get stuck with a timeshare at all. (Okay, I admit this is a very black and white way of looking at timeshares. The point made is for emphasis.)

P.S. What are the alternatives between staying on or off property? You either stay in WDW (by owning at DVC, or paying cash through DVC, or renting points from a reseller - and hoping you get the dates you want and you can’t cancel, or exchanging in through RCI - if you are very lucky maybe you can stay at Saratoga Springs) or you stay offsite and fight the traffic and crowds (through an exchange, or by owning an offsite TS, or renting through AirBnb or elsewhere).


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## Dean (Mar 10, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> I think my point is that DVC is foolish to buy, period. The only reason to buy is for non-monetary reasons. Those of us fools (me included) who do buy at DVC better enjoy it to the fullest. It is a premium product compared to other wonderful vacations we can spend our money on. Given your financial values, I do not understand why you visit Disney when it’s a foolish place to own and go. It is one of the most expensive money-sucking vacations in the world. So why did you buy DVC and why do you keep going back to the Capital of America’s consumerism?
> 
> It is like why do people pay a premium to buy a Tiffany diamond necklace over a non-branded necklace? There are other reasons. Like your spouse can untie the ribbon on the blue box. LOL Most economists realize that consumer decision making is irrational from an economic point of view. And marketers capitalize on that - especially Disney!
> 
> ...


Not necessarily.  Certainly DVC, Disney in general and vacations globally are an expense and not a true investment.  For DVC to make sense one has to value on property sufficiently to pay extra to do so.  That is the big leap here.  Once one has made that leap, DVC then might or might not make sense.  For it to make sense one has to be able to afford it (to me that's pay cash), value moderate or above accommodations, be able and willing to plan at least 7 months out preferably 11 months, plan to go AT LEAST every 3 years and be OK with the compromises of a timeshare.  To pay more for DVC as a studio compared to staying in a comparable hotel room doesn't make sense.  The proper comparison there is a hotel room to a studio or 2 hotel rooms to a 2BR.  Obviously they are different somewhat and sometimes those differences make sense for a given party and not for others.  Or to pay more for DVC than one could rent long term wouldn't make sense.  If there's no monetary savings, just pay cash through Disney, rent privately or stay in Disney suites.  A timeshare has far too much aggravation and risk to fool with it if there isn't either a savings or true and real added value.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 10, 2018)

Dean said:


> Not necessarily.  Certainly DVC, Disney in general and vacations globally are an expense and not a true investment.  For DVC to make sense one has to value on property sufficiently to pay extra to do so.  That is the big leap here.  Once one has made that leap, DVC then might or might not make sense.  For it to make sense one has to be able to afford it (to me that's pay cash), value moderate or above accommodations, be able and willing to plan at least 7 months out preferably 11 months, plan to go AT LEAST every 3 years and be OK with the compromises of a timeshare.  To pay more for DVC as a studio compared to staying in a comparable hotel room doesn't make sense.  The proper comparison there is a hotel room to a studio or 2 hotel rooms to a 2BR.  Obviously they are different somewhat and sometimes those differences make sense for a given party and not for others.  Or to pay more for DVC than one could rent long term wouldn't make sense.  If there's no monetary savings, just pay cash through Disney, rent privately or stay in Disney suites.  A timeshare has far too much aggravation and risk to fool with it if there isn't either a savings or true and real added value.



So why do you own so many DVC points still? You mentioned at one point you have owned over 900 DVC points and have sold about half but have not gotten around to selling the the rest. Maybe I am wrong but I get the impression that you are very wealthy, yet preach against DVC.


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## Dean (Mar 10, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> So why do you own so many DVC points still? You mentioned at one point you have owned over 900 DVC points and have sold about half but have not gotten around to selling the the rest. Maybe I am wrong but I get the impression that you are very wealthy, yet preach against DVC.


Neither but I have planned fairly well over the years.  The truth is that selling most of my points and keeping a few for the perks would likely be the best choice but DVC was my first love in timeshares and we still enjoy going and staying.  Sometimes we use the points to supplement a second unit or additional days with an exchange.  You misread the intent of my point, it's not to preach against DVC but against poor choices so that DVC will be a blessing.  You're an adult, you can do what you want, but you need information to make an informed decision.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 11, 2018)

Dean said:


> Neither but I have planned fairly well over the years.  The truth is that selling most of my points and keeping a few for the perks would likely be the best choice but DVC was my first love in timeshares and we still enjoy going and staying.  Sometimes we use the points to supplement a second unit or additional days with an exchange.  You misread the intent of my point, it's not to preach against DVC but against poor choices so that DVC will be a blessing.  You're an adult, you can do what you want, but you need information to make an informed decision.



Hi Dean, I am glad to hear DVC was your first love in timeshares and you have an emotional connection to it. I am happy your motivation is to share your knowledge so DVC can be a blessing for others.


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## NewbieMom (Mar 12, 2018)

Hello. I just want to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. I've been going back and forth on whether DVC makes sense for us. This thread laid out some very good points. We do not own any timeshares at the moment, and I've only recently discovered this board. I don't plan on "jumping in" at least for another 6 months as I'm the type of person who needs to read and research long and hard before making a decision. 

I have two young children (4yo and 9 months) and I like the idea of giving them the full Disney experience so there's definitely an emotional factor/value to weigh here. But I can also see a financial value. I don't see us going every year or even every other year. My current thinking is every 3 years. As we'll most likely go during spring break since my eldest will start school soon, it'll cost us about $2500/week to rent. That is about 3 years worth of maintenance fees on a small point package that'll allow me to stay for 1 week with banking/borrowing. Does it make sense to buy (and have the lifelong commitment)? 

My kids are young right now and we're fine staying in a studio room. But as they get older, we'll need 2 br. A small point package would not be enough even with banking/borrowing. If we buy, should we go for more points to account for this now and rent them out in the meantime? Or wait and add on more points in the future when we actually will use them? What would be some pros/cons to each path?

Thanks for all the interesting insights! We are taking the kids on their first WDW trip in a few weeks. I can't wait to see their reactions. We are staying offsite at Marriott but will make a point to tour BLT and AKV, as those are the two that looks the most appealing to us.


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## Dean (Mar 12, 2018)

NewbieMom said:


> Hello. I just want to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. I've been going back and forth on whether DVC makes sense for us. This thread laid out some very good points. We do not own any timeshares at the moment, and I've only recently discovered this board. I don't plan on "jumping in" at least for another 6 months as I'm the type of person who needs to read and research long and hard before making a decision.
> 
> I have two young children (4yo and 9 months) and I like the idea of giving them the full Disney experience so there's definitely an emotional factor/value to weigh here. But I can also see a financial value. I don't see us going every year or even every other year. My current thinking is every 3 years. As we'll most likely go during spring break since my eldest will start school soon, it'll cost us about $2500/week to rent. That is about 3 years worth of maintenance fees on a small point package that'll allow me to stay for 1 week with banking/borrowing. Does it make sense to buy (and have the lifelong commitment)?
> 
> ...


I’d plan for a 1BR as they get older not a 2 BR.  If you decide that purchasing is a good choice I’d likely get a good sized cushion.  You’re likely looking at around 170-200 pts or so to give you a nice cushion and split the difference.  I’d suggest you stay on property before deciding at the resort you favor, maybe as a privately rental.  If you need a 2 BR later for expanded trips with family or similar you could look at adding on and/or a second resort option, a transfer of points or one of several options to accommodate a larger single trip.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 13, 2018)

Here's an article from DVC Resale on their view of the most economical DVC resort to own:

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resort-to-purchase-spring-2018/


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## Jayco29D (Mar 21, 2018)

I just changed a reservation at Aulani from August to October. Fortunately, there was still availability for 1 bedrooms. I wanted to get a 2 bedroom island view (since it was the same points as a 1 bedroom in August) but they were sold out so I stuck with a 1 bedroom island view for fewer points. Out of curiosity, I did a search on what is available at WDW at 7 months out on Sat-Mon for 1 bedrooms and all I found was Kidani Savannah View, Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. There might be other days and some higher view/room size categories that I did not look for. But this seems to show that there is value in owning at DVC to get what you want on the days you want with the 11 month booking window. I would guess it is very hard to trade into DVC if members can't get in easily at 7 months. It is not easy to rent points and get the reservation you want either because the rental agent needs to call DVC and check for availability just like owners do so you need to plan early and hope you do not change as I think if you rent points, you may lose quite a bit if you cancel. I was surprised at my search results because October is shoulder season and kids are in school. Perhaps there would be 3 consecutive days if I had searched for all mid week days. I am guessing that anyone visiting from out of town would need more than 3 days. I just used 3 days as a sample to see what I would find at 7 months. Since we are from California, when we go to WDW, we will stay for 7-10 nights so we absolutely need the 11 month booking window to plan ahead and get the days we want at the resorts we want.


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## Mosescan (Mar 22, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> Did your Animal Kingdom offer pass ROFR?


Just got the news today we passed ROFR. Now. 3 or 4 week wait for the estoppel.


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## littlestar (Mar 23, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> I was surprised at my search results because October is shoulder season and kids are in school. Perhaps there would be 3 consecutive days if I had searched for all mid week days. I am guessing that anyone visiting from out of town would need more than 3 days. I just used 3 days as a sample to see what I would find at 7 months. Since we are from California, when we go to WDW, we will stay for 7-10 nights so we absolutely need the 11 month booking window to plan ahead and get the days we want at the resorts we want.



October is "Fall Frenzy" at Walt Disneyworld.  Lots of schools have fall breaks during October and the Food and Wine is going on at Epcot, not to mention the Halloween parties.

Congrats on passing ROFR Mosescan.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 23, 2018)

Mosescan said:


> Just got the news today we passed ROFR. Now. 3 or 4 week wait for the estoppel.



Congratulations Mosescan! You will have loads of fun for years to come at Animal Kingdom. I suspect that will be my favorite park since we are an animal lover family. We have 3 dogs and a cat and my kids are asking for more!


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## Jayco29D (Mar 23, 2018)

littlestar said:


> October is "Fall Frenzy" at Walt Disneyworld.  Lots of schools have fall breaks during October and the Food and Wine is going on at Epcot, not to mention the Halloween parties.
> 
> Congrats on passing ROFR Mosescan.



I just switched on Wednesday to go to Hawaii in the Fall instead of the Summer out of necessity for family reasons but it turned out great bc Marriott Ko Olina was still available for a week in late September and we saved 34 points at Disney Aulani since it is shoulder season in Hawaii (summer is peak season in Hawaii). So we will do our 10 day Ko Olina vacation in the Fall instead of the Summer. If we were not owners at these timeshares, we would not be able to change plans so easily. So I see this as a big advantage of owning over renting. Especially since we are combining two different timeshare companies - Marriott and Disney for this vacation. We bought MKO and Aulani to work together. Not sure if this is the thread discussing the topic of owning vs renting but just thought I would mention the benefit of the flexibility of changing reservations.


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## blondietink (Mar 24, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> I just changed a reservation at Aulani from August to October. Fortunately, there was still availability for 1 bedrooms. I wanted to get a 2 bedroom island view (since it was the same points as a 1 bedroom in August) but they were sold out so I stuck with a 1 bedroom island view for fewer points. Out of curiosity, I did a search on what is available at WDW at 7 months out on Sat-Mon for 1 bedrooms and all I found was Kidani Savannah View, Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. There might be other days and some higher view/room size categories that I did not look for. But this seems to show that there is value in owning at DVC to get what you want on the days you want with the 11 month booking window. I would guess it is very hard to trade into DVC if members can't get in easily at 7 months. It is not easy to rent points and get the reservation you want either because the rental agent needs to call DVC and check for availability just like owners do so you need to plan early and hope you do not change as I think if you rent points, you may lose quite a bit if you cancel. I was surprised at my search results because October is shoulder season and kids are in school. Perhaps there would be 3 consecutive days if I had searched for all mid week days. I am guessing that anyone visiting from out of town would need more than 3 days. I just used 3 days as a sample to see what I would find at 7 months. Since we are from California, when we go to WDW, we will stay for 7-10 nights so we absolutely need the 11 month booking window to plan ahead and get the days we want at the resorts we want.



We have been to Aulani twice in the fall and have always been able to get a reservation even less than 7 months out.  Last time we got an island view to stay longer and save on points and it was the best room we ever had.  It was top floor (14 I think) overlooking the golf course and we could see all the way to Diamond Head in the distance.  Great sunrise shots.  

Earlier this week I cancelled our SSR for 7 nights starting 10/21 and was able to book BLT for 7 nights on the same dates.  There was plenty of availability at 8 am which included not only BLT but also Grand Floridian, AKV Jambo and Kadini, BWV, OKW, Wildrness Lodge and SSR.  Usually the schools that do have an October break are in the middle two weeks of the month.  This is also true for the people coming from England which we have run into in the past.


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## Jayco29D (Mar 24, 2018)

blondietink said:


> We have been to Aulani twice in the fall and have always been able to get a reservation even less than 7 months out.  Last time we got an island view to stay longer and save on points and it was the best room we ever had.  It was top floor (14 I think) overlooking the golf course and we could see all the way to Diamond Head in the distance.  Great sunrise shots.
> 
> Earlier this week I cancelled our SSR for 7 nights starting 10/21 and was able to book BLT for 7 nights on the same dates.  There was plenty of availability at 8 am which included not only BLT but also Grand Floridian, AKV Jambo and Kadini, BWV, OKW, Wildrness Lodge and SSR.  Usually the schools that do have an October break are in the middle two weeks of the month.  This is also true for the people coming from England which we have run into in the past.



Aulani is a little easier to book at 7 months because most DVC owners are East Coast folks. For Orlando resorts, you do have to be online right at 8 am, I have heard. I was looking at 6.5 months and most of the 1 bedroom Orlando resorts were booked and the 2 bedroom island view at Aulani was booked too. I could not get exactly what I wanted so I rebooked what I had and I was happy by saving the points for next year.


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## icydog (Apr 7, 2018)

Dean said:


> You get all perks c/w staying on property like early/late access, free park parking and the like including the BLT lounge..  You lose out on the option to trade for DCL, ABC, Disney hotels and the concierge collection.  You also lose out on the shopping/dining discounts, pass discounts, EPCOT long, access to the members cruises and access to member events.  The 2010 set of restrictions removed the cash exchange options and IMO did the members a favor.  The 2016 restrictions removed the other items and any future benefits.  *The 2018 change to 75 pts to qualify essentially made it where buying FOR the perks/discounts was essentially never going to be reasonable unless buying retail without the perks would make sense.  *You still get RCI access.



Wait, What's that you say? When did this happen? Is it on the dvcmember.com website? Last year, I bought a 25 point contract at Disney's Old Key West just to have all the benefits. I guess I was lucky to have done so!


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 7, 2018)

icydog said:


> Wait, What's that you say? When did this happen? Is it on the dvcmember.com website? Last year, I bought a 25 point contract at Disney's Old Key West just to have all the benefits. I guess I was lucky to have done so!


 
LUCKY (icy)DOG! Count that as your timeshare GOOD BUY for this decade!


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## Dean (Apr 7, 2018)

icydog said:


> Wait, What's that you say? When did this happen? Is it on the dvcmember.com website? Last year, I bought a 25 point contract at Disney's Old Key West just to have all the benefits. I guess I was lucky to have done so!


Recently this was changed.  You should be grandfathered.


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