# Getting ready to pull trigger on joining DVC: SSR vs AKV



## specmom (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi - I have found this forum very helpful over the last few years. We are deciding on whether to buy into DVC. For a lot of reasons, we think it likely makes sense. We've crunched some numbers and were set on buying a small contract at AKV. The annual dues have given us pause. We realize they will likely stay high and have high increases due to the size and upkeep/maintenance of the property, animals, etc.

So we are rethinking this and wondering if it is a smart idea to buy in to SSR, with full intention of rarely staying there as our home resort. Although we wouldn't mind, we have been told that it is very easy to get in to AKV with the 7-month booking window. 

Any feedback on this preconceived notion we've come up with? Also, any thoughts on a fair-to-good resale price-per-point at SSR? I'm thinking $70-72 per point would be very good? 

Thank you!


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## stanleyu (Jan 24, 2015)

We recently visited both resorts - stayed a week at each, AKV over Christmas and SSR over New Years. We own points at SSR - bought there because of the combination of reasonable entry price and low maintenance. Plus since I normally put in my request right at the start of eligibility, I can normally get us in anywhere except the newest ones.

That being said, this time I had to change our plans, meaning cancelling and re-booking our reservations. No problem at AKL, even for Christmas week. But SSR was the only thing available over New Years.

What a fun trip it was! We really enjoyed both resorts. So to answer one of your questions, AKV was pretty easy to trade into. I also would have no qualms about buying into SSR again, or staying there again, for that matter, It is quite large and spread out, but not THAT large unless you are physically impaired. We really enjoyed the close proximity to Downtown Disney, and with all the improvements being made there - transitioning into Disney Springs - it will only get better. We found that a 20-minute walk or a romantic boat ride got us to the heart of the action - a great way to wind down at the end of a hard day at the them parks.

I don't know about the $70-72/point availability. I see everything out there seems to be a bit higher, buy you probably should just make an offer an see what happens. Depends on how many points you want, as bigger purchases tend to go for less per point.

I know you are wondering about the ability to trade into other resorts, and how successful you are depends on how you trade. If you are after the peak crowd times, especially Easter and Christmas-New Years you should buy at the resort you want to visit. You get an extra four month window at your home resort. But if you can plan to be there at less busy times it gets much easier, especially if you can plan seven months out. In the past I've booked us at Boardwalk and Beach Club in April and May with no problem, as long as I stayed away from Easter.


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## bnoble (Jan 24, 2015)

The common advice is "Buy where you want to stay."  Instead, I think the advice is "Don't buy where you won't be happy staying most of the time."

For most people, I'm not convinced that home resort is all that important.  Over time, you are likely to want stay at all of them at least once, and if you are flexible about when you can travel and you can plan ahead, you'll probably get the chance to do so.  That's particularly true if you aren't limiting yourself to studios, which are the highest-demand room size in the system.

There are some exceptions.  For example, if you just can't imagine yourself being happy staying at a particular resort, you should not buy there.  If you have very specific desires for a trip you want to take every year---VWL for the winter holiday decorations, BCV or BWV in October for Food & Wine---then it makes sense to buy that thing.  Finally, if you just have one resort you are madly in love with, then that's where you should buy.

Based on what you've written, I'm not sure SSR is wise. AKV ownership will cost a little more, but if you really don't like the idea of staying at SSR this could be a purchase you end up regretting.


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## elaine (Jan 24, 2015)

a couple of questions:
how far out can you plan/commit
what time of year are you traveling
how many in your party--would you want Value rooms @ AKV

We have a small DVC contract at another resort and have traded into AKV 5X.  We have also traded via RCI 3X into OKW.  We are in the process of buying AKV and then will sell our other small contract. We like getting the value AKV rooms, which save points.  We feel that the slightly higher annual fees are offset by being able to get AKV value room, so we are buying AKV.  Also, we were not able not get a DVC trade into a 1BR for Easter 2015 (after trading in @ Easter 2X prior), so we don't want to roll the dice again and lose as we want to go next Christmas and only want to stay at AKV.
The only time you will have trouble getting into AKV at 7 months is major holidays--but you might have to take a higher points room. You will be unlikely to get more than a day or in any value category.  
So, if you are OK with that, then SSR is a fine resort--no reason not to buy there, if you are happy to stay there if you couldn't switch at 7 months. You should check over on disboards under "DVC purchases." $70-72 might be low, as DVC is exercising a lot of ROFR now.  good luck. We love DVC! Elaine


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## Doug7856 (Jan 24, 2015)

*We own at SSR*

We own at SSR and are very happy with our purchase. We bought in 2003 before the resort opened. We have stayed at AKV several times, BWV, OKW and even at the Grand Californian; however, most of our stays are at SSR because we love it there. Since my wife is a teacher, we travel mostly during summer. 

Generally, if we want to stay at a resort other than SSR, we book right at the 7 month mark and have never had a problem getting what we want. The exceptions would be early December, Thanksgiving and other high times.


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## piyooshj (Jan 24, 2015)

I agree with the posts. As long as your are not opposed to staying at SSR, I'd buy there for the low cost to get in and low MFs. Only issue would be booking new year, easter and other high demand weeks and for those weeks stay at SSR and for other weeks you should pretty much get everything.


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## specmom (Jan 24, 2015)

Thank you for the replies! To answer the questions: I am a planner. We would almost ALWAYS book 7-months out. We would likely travel in Oct/Nov or Feb. We would almost never go in the summer. While Xmas/Easter would be on our list at some point (as would staying at least once at all the properties), we actually prefer off times when the crowds are lower.
I should've mentioned...we've only ever been to AKV and BWV. Never SSR. However, I have done a TON of research. Truth is, BWV location cannot be beat but I prefer the resort-vibe over location. The buses were not a deal to us at AKV because they are direct and don't make 5 stops. But those annual fees sure do scare us.

Thanks again!


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## Doug7856 (Jan 25, 2015)

specmom said:


> Thank you for the replies! To answer the questions: I am a planner. We would almost ALWAYS book 7-months out. We would likely travel in Oct/Nov or Feb. We would almost never go in the summer. While Xmas/Easter would be on our list at some point (as would staying at least once at all the properties), we actually prefer off times when the crowds are lower.
> I should've mentioned...we've only ever been to AKV and BWV. Never SSR. However, I have done a TON of research. Truth is, BWV location cannot be beat but I prefer the resort-vibe over location. The buses were not a deal to us at AKV because they are direct and don't make 5 stops. But those annual fees sure do scare us.
> 
> Thanks again!



If BWV is a preferred location, you may want to consider buying there. I believe it is a harder to obtain location for the reasons you've listed. Also, it's difficult to get the Standard View category at 7 months (for the lower point levels) and during the Food and Wine Festival.


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## blondietink (Jan 25, 2015)

We have owned at SSR for 10 years. and have gone multiple times per year to WDW often.   We have never stayed there.  We have always be able to get another resort at 7 months.  One time we got AKV less than 30 days out for a last minute trip in August.  We reserved at Aulani less than 7 months out.

I think once Disney Springs opens, we will likely actually stay at SSR as it looks like it will be fun.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 25, 2015)

Before you buy SSR..... 

I suggest reading this very detailed write up of the 7 month vs 11 month availability on the DIS Board so you won't be surprised/disappointed  (see post #3 in this thread) - http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3281173

_JMHO...I agree with the others that if you have your heart set on one specific resort you might want to consider buying there. If you're flexible in taking whatever resort is available including SSR then SSR makes sense to buy_


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## capjak (Jan 25, 2015)

SSR would be a good fit unless:

You want Club Level or the lowest point levels at AKV as those you will likely need the 11 month priority in these cases you need AKV as a Home resort.

As far as mf increases I believe they are similar across the DVC timeshares year to year (meaning they all go up approximately at the same rate, but some started out higher than others).


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## elaine (Jan 25, 2015)

IMHO, SSR does not have a resort feel to me. It is more similar to a nice condo. It is not hooked to a resort hotel, like AKV and BWV (and BCV, VWL, VGF).  That is one reason why SSR is our least favorite--it's just too similar to staying at a a nice off-site condo.  We prefer the "hotel" feel with a central lobby, larger quick service restaurant, etc. 
You might find it hard to trade into BWV in Oct/Nov b/c of food and wine festival.  You should still be able to get AKV.  When I asked about planning, I meant to ask can you plan at MORE than 7 months out--b/c if you are usually at 7 months out or less, then it doesn't matter where you own.  
You can  look on allears.net to view SSR photos.  Also, SSR doesn't have an extra sleeper chair, if that matters to you.


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## specmom (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks so much, Elaine. This is such helpful info. My husband REALLY has no interest in SSR, so we are back to considering AKV. I really am unimpressed by those annual dues though. I can plan much farther out beyond 7 months. I am trying to locate/figure out how much I'd end up paying per night for a week at AKV as an owner, assuming we go 1x every 1-2 yrs. Basically, I'm trying to rationalize this. We are also interested in renting our pts from time to time. Thanks again for the helpful input!


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## bnoble (Jan 25, 2015)

> My husband REALLY has no interest in SSR


Then do not buy there.



> Basically, I'm trying to rationalize this.


Do you want it?  Can you afford it? Would you rather spend that money on DVC than on something else? Then buy it. 

You can do a more complicated analysis, but at the end of the day, money is for spending.  Staying in DVC resorts isn't cheap, no matter how you slice it, but it's hard to do it reliably and less expensively than owning a resale deed at one of their established resorts.


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## czar (Jan 25, 2015)

In hindsight I wish I purchased my points based on MF.  It makes a huge difference. Even an 80¢ difference means $160 for 200 points. That's a big deal for most people whether you're staying or renting your points. 

I think that if you want to stay in a specific resort then you need to buy that resort. I bought AKV for the value rooms since it would be "cheaper" but my planned usage and actual usage are different. 

DVC is an incredibly flexible system. I should have wasted less time worrying about whether it made sense and more time looking into exactly how it works and how different resort options and contract sizes would impact me.


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## elaine (Jan 25, 2015)

I would say think long term about where you want to regularly stay. We bought a small VWL contract thinking we wanted to stay at Christmas. We did that 1X and were done. We have used VWL to stay at AKv 5X. We have only enough points to stay for 3-5 nights. We actually thought we would be flipping out of our contract by now (7 years later), as we would be "done" with WDW b/c our kids are older. We are currently flipping out of our small VWL contract and buying a larger AKV contract. 
I want the 11 month booking priority to get value rooms and ensure holiday reservations. Our younger kids really like DVC and we all really like AKV. We do more than the parks--roast hot dogs @ Ft W, evening movies by the pool, rent bikes, crafts at community halls. We traded via RCI in the past for Easter, but are not assured anymore of getting a RCI trade (Easter never came thru this year) and want to be able to ensure a Christmas reservation for next year. We actually found that DVC is the most enjoyable, cost-effective family vacation for us, esp. at prime times. It's easy to get to, and we are not locked into flying. I know we could trade into a nice offsite timeshare such as OLCC, HGVC, Marriott, Starwood, but we just found that we enjoy the ambiance of DVC the best. We view DVC and the amenities of AKV as much as a "destination resort" as going into WDW. DH summed it up---"if I am going to Orlando, I want to be at AKV."


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## stanleyu (Jan 25, 2015)

So, Specmom, it all comes back to you and what you value as tradeoffs. If you buy a couple of hundred points you're looking at spending $200/year, every year. If you plan on trading into a number of different places you will almost always be at the 7-month window. In my case, that is fine. I don't mind it. Plus we also have and RCI unit we use to trade in, so we're there anyway, looking to combine what we can get thru RCI with our DVC unit to get two weeks. And last of all, we do like SSR.

Regardless of what the others say, I would not buy AKV. It's just too easy to trade into. Once I decided to bite the bullet and pay the higher fees, I would choose either BWV or BCV, both because of their location. They are just SO easy to fall back on if I can't get something else.


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## specmom (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks. I think we have been persuaded against AKV. The annual fees scared us away and the reality of being able to book 7 months out seems like a risk worth taking. Thanks for all the help!!!


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## piyooshj (Jan 25, 2015)

Great discussion on this thread. So one of hgvc Orlando will disqualify me from Orlando dvc properties via RCI?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elaine (Jan 25, 2015)

as long as you do not want/need concierge or value and are OK to stay at SSR if you couldn't get into AKV, I think a SSR purchase is fine. I should note that we also really like OKW, which is also usually very easy to get at 7 months. Good luck. We love DVC--so easy to use, so easy to book, and very good cancelation options, as well. 

piyooshj--I thought that HGVC points did not count as being Orlando-based, even if your base creosote was in Orlando.  Someone who owns HGVC will chime in and confirm--otherwise, post on the Fla or exchange BB in a few days to get your answer.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 25, 2015)

My sister (55yo at the time) did DVC with me - as her retirement trip. In May, I took her to VWL ... she thought she LOVE it ... the boat over to MK, the fitness center, the food, the theming of the lodge .... 

The next trip was beginning of November to AKV. HANDS DOWN, she was just stunned. The animals under the balcony, the food, the theming .... She loved this place WAY over VWL. She still thought VWL was very nice; she just was more engaged and captivated by the savannas of AKV. And she liked the layout of the unit better ... much better (2 bathrooms). But I could count on her being on the big balcony almost all the time ... we spent maybe 20 minutes per day on the VWL micro-balcony (max).

She gave me a gift after the 2nd trip --- a collection of framed pictures; nothing from the 1st trip. Dang, my roosts for both trips ... she truly enjoyed the 2nd trip...I believe.

Discloser: I own a small DVC/AKV contract.


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## bnoble (Jan 25, 2015)

> So one of hgvc Orlando will disqualify me from Orlando dvc properties via RCI?


No.  For the mini-systems (HGVC, Wyndham, WorldMark, Bluegreen) that trade with a fixed grid, where you own doesn't matter.  You are treated as a (generic) member of the respective club.

At least, that's true today. Tomorrow?  Who knows?


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## Myxdvz (Jan 26, 2015)

As long as you are not looking for concierge of the Standard/Value rooms at AKV, you'd be ok with buying SSR.

This normally means that you'd normally be getting Savannah rooms and they are more points.

As for renting, it's will be tougher to rent SSR than say BLT/BC/BWV since there's a lot of this type of points and very few people looking to book SSR at 11 months. If you're ok with that then go ahead.

As long as you will not feel bad if you HAD to stay at SSR since that's the only one you can book early.  For the most part, you would most likely have to book SSR at 11 months, then change it at 7months to another resort like AKV.


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## chalee94 (Jan 26, 2015)

specmom said:


> Thank you for the replies! To answer the questions: I am a planner. We would almost ALWAYS book 7-months out. We would likely travel in Oct/Nov or Feb. We would almost never go in the summer...



this is true of a lot of DVC owners, BTW.  early december is peak period for DVC bookings (all of fall is pretty busy) and summer is not that bad for trying for other resorts at 7 months out.


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## alwysonvac (Jan 26, 2015)

Here's a link the Annual Historical Maintenance Fees (see post #2) - http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2823609

_Note: Post # 3 gives you the number of villas by unit size at each DVC resort _


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## moonlightgraham (Jan 26, 2015)

Here's another vote for buy the best deal you can get. I have SSR points from 2008 and have stayed there one time. Meanwhile, I have stayed at every WDW DVC property at least once, including a BWV boardwalk view during Christmas/New Years week (I admit that was quite a catch). Coming up we have Aulani booked for Easter week in April (that did burn two year's worth of points but I wanted the ocean view). 

Like many have said, if you can work the 7-month ressie strategy you can almost always find what you want, or something acceptable. With the lower up-front point cost and better-than-average maintenance fees I've never regretted the SSR buying decision.


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## chriskre (Jan 26, 2015)

I too own at SSR and rarely stay there and have owned since 2004.
You will need Priority for the tree houses and holidays otherwise there is always availability at SSR.  

I've stayed at all the hard to get DVC's with my SSR points.
AKV Kidani & Jambo, BCV, BWV, OKW, Vero and recently Grand Floridian.  
I've booked Aulanai for someone too.

If you don't have to follow the school calendar you can own in SSR and be happy with DVC.  
I don't always book 7 months out either.  
I tend to book closer in trips and still don't have problems.
As a matter of fact you can now wait list online and many times it will come thru without you even realizing it until you log in again and get a nice surprise.  

October and November you can pretty much stay anywhere.
February you might have problems with the holidays, President's week and Valentines.  I have gotten BCV during President's week in a 2 bedroom last minute ressie but I'd say you'd need to plan for February.  

I look at it as an adventure and take what comes knowing as an owner I am going to go back again and again.  I also do lots of split stays which appeals to me so that I can spend time near each park.  A few days at AKV and a few at BWV for example.  Disney will move your food and luggage for free while you move so it's not stressful at all to do split stays.  Check out times is at 11am so you just let bell services know and they arrange everything.  

If you are thinking of every 2 year stays you might want to buy two smaller contracts and bank and borrow for APR at two resorts.  I wish I had done that for my F & W trips because BWV and BCV is difficult to impossible to get during F&W with all the spec renting.  :annoyed:


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## rfc0001 (Jan 26, 2015)

specmom said:


> Hi - I have found this forum very helpful over the last few years. We are deciding on whether to buy into DVC. For a lot of reasons, we think it likely makes sense. We've crunched some numbers & were set on buying a small contract at AKV. The annual dues have given us pause. We realize they will likely stay high & have high increases due to the size & upkeep/maintenance of the property, animals, etc.
> So we are rethinking this & wondering if it is a smart idea to buy in to SSR, with full intention of rarely staying there as our home resort. Although we wouldn't mind, we have been told that it is very easy to get in to AKV with the 7-month booking window.
> Any feedback on this preconceived notion we've come up with? Also, any thoughts on a fair-to-good resale price-per-point at SSR? I'm thinking $70-72 per point would be very good?
> Thank you!


The best way to rationalize the savings of buying DVC direct or resale & compare different resorts with different MFs & different expiration dates is to calculate the total price per point on contract, which is the current price you are paying for each point you use on that contract-which you can compare to the going rental rate ($14/pt.) to calculate how much buying is saving over renting. To do this, take any contract, take the total purchase cost (incl. closing fees, excluding MFs due for current points, which we'll add back in in a minute), then divide this by total points on contract (years remaining * pts + banked - borrowed points). This gives you a cost per point on contract , which you can then add to the MF/pt. for that resort to get the current total price you are paying for each point you use on that contract. This varies by resort since each resort has different expiration & MFs. It also varies by resale contract since each contract has different borrowed/banked points & closing costs. With this calculation, SSR is typically cheapest total cost per point starting around $7/pt., which at $7/pt your are saving half over renting the same points @ $14/pt from DVCRequest.com or DVCRentalStore.com. This is the rationalization to buy resale, & SSR specifically. For comparison, AUL (sub)/BLT/OKW(ext.) are in the $7-$8/pt. range. VGC/AKV/OKW are $8-$9. HHI/AUL/BWV/BCV/VWL are $9-$10. VB is $10+. Poly direct is currently $9/pt. for existing DVC members-same total price per point as OKW (oldest DVC resort)-yet people complain Poly is expensive. The fallacy is they are comparing face value without factoring in Poly has 82% more points remaining than OKW. Keep in mind, each resort has it's own supply & demand which dictates price, which is why total price per point varies. Demand is driven a lot by perceived value (value of 7-11 mos. booking) & perceived costs (MFs/pt.). Very few people buying Disney calculate what it really costs per point. You can also take the total cost per point (e.g. $7 for SSR) & compare what DVC booking at that rate will save you over rack rates-typically it's around 60% savings if you assume 30% discount off rack rate which is a common promotion. So, this is how you rationalize the purchase-either off rack rate or comparable DVC rental. While total cost per point factors in current MF/pt., another consideration is how relatively low MFs are historically & how stable the % increases are. See my historical MF chart for complete analysis, but SSR has historically low MFs & % increases, along with relatively low face value, & absolutely best overall value. The only real reason to buy anywhere other than SSR is if you need the 7-11 mos. window. The only resorts/rooms that sell out at 7-11 mos. are AKV Jambo Value/Concierge, BLT Standard , VGF Studio/2bdrm lock-off, & BCV 2bdrm (2 queen), AUL Standard views, & sometimes BWV Studio.. Unless you need to book one of those, owning a specific resort isn't really necessary. That said, you have to book exactly at 7 mos @ 8AM online to get your pick of the other resorts/rooms, so if you aren't someone good with setting reminder that far out for a specific date & time, then the 11 mos. window may be a benefit just to book it & forget it. Good luck!

Edit: For a perhaps simpler explanation of how to calculate DVC savings over direct booking, see http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/news/item/223-polynesian-dvc-for-sale about half way down -- same method I use.



specmom said:


> Thank you for the replies! To answer the questions: I am a planner. We would almost ALWAYS book 7-months out. We would likely travel in Oct/Nov or Feb. We would almost never go in the summer. While Xmas/Easter would be on our list at some point (as would staying at least once at all the properties), we actually prefer off times when the crowds are lower.
> I should've mentioned...we've only ever been to AKV & BWV. Never SSR. However, I have done a TON of research. Truth is, BWV location cannot be beat but I prefer the resort-vibe over location. The buses were not a deal to us at AKV because they are direct & don't make 5 stops. But those annual fees sure do scare us.
> Thanks again!


Keep in mind high park demand != high DVC demand. October is actually extremely high-demand for DVC. You have to book exactly at 7 mos @ 8AM to get your choice of resort, especially Studios, which always sell out first.





specmom said:


> Thanks so much, Elaine. This is such helpful info. My husband REALLY has no interest in SSR, so we are back to considering AKV. I really am unimpressed by those annual dues though. I can plan much farther out beyond 7 months. I am trying to locate/figure out how much I'd end up paying per night for a week at AKV as an owner, assuming we go 1x every 1-2 yrs. Basically, I'm trying to rationalize this. We are also interested in renting our pts from time to time. Thanks again for the helpful input!


See above calculation for how to rationalize the direct vs. resale savings, factoring in various MFs. All up, you're going to save about 50% over renting AKV by buying SSR ($7/pt vs $14/pt), or about 60% over direct booking (assuming 30% discount off rack rates, which is pretty standard).





piyooshj said:


> Great discussion on this thread. So one of hgvc Orlando will disqualify me from Orlando dvc properties via RCI?


Maybe-presently, when you book DVC in RCI it explicitly states they can review your reservation & cancel it if you are booking it with an Orlando based ownership. That said, HGVC just shows up as HGVC points to RCI, so they (currently) have no way to tell you are trading in from an Orlando HGVC. So, unless someone from DVC audits the exchange, 99% chance it won't get cancelled. That said, you are rolling the dice as things could change. As a DVC & HGVC owner, my advice is buy HGVC where the points & MFs are lowest since 9 mos. availability at Orlando HGVC is never an issue.


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## specmom (Jan 27, 2015)

Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts? Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR? And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say? Am I just confusing myself? I am asking way too many questions...


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## bnoble (Jan 27, 2015)

> For a perhaps simpler explanation of how to calculate DVC savings over direct booking, see http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/new...n-dvc-for-sale about half way down


This ignores the time value of money---it assumes that $30,000 today is the same as $1,000 a year for 30 years.  The former is "worth" much more.  For those of you who disagree: feel free to give me $30K, and I'll give you $1K every year for the next 30 years.  There is no limit to the number of people who can take me up on this deal.

(Edited to add: now we'll see if there are any deflationary bears in the audience.)


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## chalee94 (Jan 27, 2015)

specmom said:


> Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts?



sure can.



> Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR?



if you buy 25 AKV (animal kingdom villas) pts and 250 SSR (saratoga springs) pts and want to book AKV at 11 months out, you can only use pts from the AKV contract.  it's like you don't even own the SSR pts until you get to the 7 month window.

it doesn't matter what resorts you own, it is the points themselves that have the home resort advantage.

you can transfer in 200 bay lake tower (BLT) pts from a BLT owner and book BLT at 11 months out, but there is no way to use nonhome pts at a different home resort at 11 months out. 



> And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say?



it depends on whether you buy pts under one membership (that are titled exactly the same and have the same use year).

if pts are under one membership, you can easily combine pts at 11 months out if they are the same home resort.  so if you have a 200 pt AKV contract and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract, they would work like a single 250 pt contract when booking (but you can still sell or will the contracts separately).


if pts are under one membership, you can easily combine pts at 7 months out if they are from different home resorts.  so if you have a 200 pt SSR contract and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract, they would work like a single 250 pt contract when booking at 7 months out (but you can still sell or will the contracts separately).

if you buy 2 contracts with different UYs (or titled differently), they are more complicated to use.  so if you have a 200 pt SSR contract with an april UY and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract with an oct UY, you can still book a 2BR for 4-5 nights with the SSR contract and then book another night or 2 with the AKV pts and ask MS to link the reservations so you can stay in the same room (probably still have to check out and back in).  the contracts also have different banking windows.  it's more of a hassle unless you are a very detailed planner...


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## bnoble (Jan 27, 2015)

Charles, if you own two different use years, can you transfer between them to simplify things?


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## specmom (Jan 27, 2015)

Understood, thank you!


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## chalee94 (Jan 27, 2015)

bnoble;171979if  said:
			
		

> Charles, if you own two different use years, can you transfer between them to simplify things?



That is one solution.

But you only get one transfer per year (in or out, but not both). DVC didn't use to count transfers against you if they were for the same owner but lately it sounds like that has changed, which hurts you if you wanted to do another transfer in that use year.

Also, transferred pts cannot be borrowed, so that can limit you.

It's not unworkable if you get a great deal on a different use year and you are organized.  But it's a lot easier to keep things under one member number.


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## rfc0001 (Jan 27, 2015)

specmom said:


> Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts? Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR? And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say? Am I just confusing myself? I am asking way too many questions...


 You end up with two separate "Memberships"-- can't use on same reservation without transferring between memberships, which can only be done with current year points, and is not reversible. Transferred points maintain Home resort and UY of original points, and can be banked for following UY of original contract. As far as home resort advantage, regardless of same UY or not, you can only use Home resort points to book 7-11 mos. That said, you can borrow next years home resort points to book home resort at 11 mos, then swap out the _current year _home resort points (not the borrowed home resort points since you can't bank the borrowed points, so have to use them) at 7 mos for your other resort (e.g. SSR) and bank the current year home resort points back to next year and rinse and repeat . So you really only need half the points needed to book @ 11 mos. Another strategy is to buy enough points to only book the Fr/Sa nights @ 11 mos since, if anything, those are the nights that sell out @ 11 mos. The other advantage of that approach, is @ 7 mos you already have the first two nights, effectively blocking any 7 mos reservation for the following days (since you can only book 7 mos + 7 days if the first day is available), and can call MS to extend the reservation for 7 days @ 7 mos -- using your other resort points.



chalee94 said:


> That is one solution.
> 
> But you only get one transfer per year (in or out, but not both). DVC didn't use to count transfers against you if they were for the same owner but lately it sounds like that has changed, which hurts you if you wanted to do another transfer in that use year.
> 
> ...


Borrowing doesn't apply since only current year points can be transferred. Therefore, banked/borrowed points cannot be _transferred_, but _transferred _points _can_ be banked. Clear as mud?


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## Myxdvz (Jan 27, 2015)

rfc0001 said:


> You end up with two separate "Memberships"-- can't use on same reservation without transferring between memberships, which can only be done with current year points, and is not reversible.



Not necessarily. If the name and UY is exactly the same, it is the "same" membership and the points are pooled together without having to transfer.


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## blondietink (Jan 28, 2015)

To keep it simple, I would recommend that if you buy a contract and want to then add on later, to get the same use year at the same resort.  For example, we bought at SSR with a September use year, then we added on another small contract for 25 pts. at SSR with the same September use year.


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## chalee94 (Jan 28, 2015)

rfc0001 said:


> Borrowing doesn't apply since only current year points can be transferred. Therefore, banked/borrowed points cannot be _transferred_, but _transferred _points _can_ be banked. Clear as mud?



the material point is that if you own 2 contracts under the same membership number, you can easily pool the points to use up to 3 years worth of points to book a reservation...which is not possible if you are using point transfers between your contracts.


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## rfc0001 (Jan 28, 2015)

Myxdvz said:


> Not necessarily. If the name and UY is exactly the same, it is the "same" membership and the points are pooled together without having to transfer.


Yep, thanks for clarifying.


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## specmom (Feb 1, 2015)

I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!


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## rfc0001 (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!


As far as use years, my initial strategy was to pick one of the most common, since the thought was there would be the most resales for that UY if I added on (you could argue there would be more demand too, so may not matter).  If you subscribe to this logic, June is one of the most common _and the default use year for any new resort_.  A couple _functional _reasons to own one versus another:


You can't make reservations that span UYs.  You have to make two and link them, so not a huge deal 
Any banked or borrowed points have to be used by your UY month or they expire 
More importantly, your banking window is 4 months before your UY, so if you make reservations anytime up to 4 months before your UY, and cancel those reservations within 4 months of your stay, you can't bank the points.  This is bad, and despite being an immaculate planner, it happens. Case and point, we planned to use all our banked and remaining points for a  2bdrm Premier Season spring break week (500+ points) so the grandparents could come, and my father-in-law is having back surgery so won't be able to travel.  I could cancel and book a 1 bdrm, but I missed the banking window by 2 days (Saturday), so I couldn't bank the unused points.
 Given the above, my advice is to pick a UY where it's very likely you won't be travelling in the four months leading up to it, to guarantee you won't lose points.  February would be perfect, since that would have you 12 months to use any Feb-Mar reservations you had to cancel.  October isn't bad, since you still have until October to use any banked/borrowed points if one of your Feb/Mar reservations fall through and aren't at risk of the 4 month banking window falling during one of your stays (unless you book July-Oct.  July would worry me, but our schedule is more March, June-July, Oct.  In our case, March would be perfect, since the preceeding 4 months don't fall during any of the times we would be travelling.

 All this said, as long as you have a single UY, anything is manageable, _and you can always rent points that are expiring. _I just rented 350 points @ $12 in one week just using the DIS boards, and have rented "premium" resorts using brokers for $13/pt within days.  There are always people willing to rent at a discount to Disney's rack rates (which equate to ~$24/pt).


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## capjak (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!



Use year would not be a critical determining point, more important to get the right number of points at the right price and hopefully with points available and/or banked (i.e. Loaded with points).

For future contracts I would stay with the same use year as the first to make life a bit less complicated.  Hope you pass ROFR.


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## specmom (Feb 2, 2015)

Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/


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## czar (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/



It depends.  Is the contract loaded, stripped?  Make sure you understadnt he value of any points you're getting (or not) as it hugely influences the initial buy-in price.  I'll PM you a link to here you can see what's been happening re ROFR.

FYI, from my perspective watching contracts, it seems like the resale price has been slowly but gradually increasing.  With new points at PVB @ $165 after 2/9 - makes sense.


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## specmom (Feb 2, 2015)

It has no banked pts. Just 160 coming up in Oct. Seemed completely fair and straight forward from what I've seen.


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## rfc0001 (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/


Check out the ROFR threads on DIS Boards for historical passed/taken contracts. If you analyze them, there is _no_ correlation with price or points on contract. They randomly take whatever contract that fits the UY/points that is on their desk when a member add-on purchase comes through (which is why they ROFR -- to fill orders by members). That said, they do have a slight _preference_ towards cheaper contracts -- obviously if two contracts are sitting on their desk when an order comes through, they'll take the one that's cheaper and therefore make higher margin on the direct purchase. That said, you'll see $60 SSR pass and $90 SSR get taken when you look at the historicals, so it really isn't the deciding factor. Luck and timing is.  That said, good luck (and congratulations)!


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## specmom (Feb 2, 2015)

That suggests there is no rhyme or reason, so I'll try not to worry about something that I have no control over and hope for
the best. Thanks!


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## rfc0001 (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> That suggests there is no rhyme or reason, so I'll try not to worry about something that I have no control over and hope for
> the best. Thanks!


BTW, lately the turnaround on ROFR has only been 2 weeks so not too much of a nailbiter


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## Myxdvz (Feb 2, 2015)

OOTH, I don't think I've ever heard of SSR being ROFR'd...

Goodness, SSR is now $72?  Last time I was looking (late 2012/early 2013) was $55 OKW and that was ROFR'd.


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## bnoble (Feb 2, 2015)

Prices have gone up as leisure travel demand continues to strengthen.  I'm seeing this in a lot of different systems (and in other ways beyond timeshare resale price.)


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## czar (Feb 2, 2015)

The value of DVC contracts has definitely risen. I bought my AKV for $58/pt just a year ago.


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## specmom (Feb 2, 2015)

WOAH!!!! A yr ago you bought AKV for $58/pp??!!!! Was that unusual? Anyone have any info as to why the huge increase over 1 yr? I was seeing AKV around $80/pp recently.


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## elaine (Feb 2, 2015)

I just committed to a contract for 160 AKV for $81. I looked at a number of resale contracts and resale brokers.  But, it was one of the only ones that had the UY I wanted and had all 2014 points (which have a value of about $1500 to me, as I will use them at Christmas).  I might have gotten AKV for a bit less, but we wanted to get rolling to make a Christmas reservation. DVC has been exercising ROFR more than in the past. I ball-parked that $75 was about the lowest we could get it for, and I thought that was not a sure deal.
Yes, prices are up (and RCI trades are not as easy as before).


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## rfc0001 (Feb 2, 2015)

specmom said:


> WOAH!!!! A yr ago you bought AKV for $58/pp??!!!! Was that unusual? Anyone have any info as to why the huge increase over 1 yr? I was seeing AKV around $80/pp recently.


In the most simple terms, supply and demand dictate prices, exacerbated by a thinly traded market (thus subject to extreme volatility). At the end of the day, Disney dictates prices for direct _and resale_ based on rack rates of DVC (which in turn are dictated by supply and demand of people willing to pay those prices to Disney), which is where the value for DVC direct or resale is derived. Currently, Disney rack rates for DVC resorts are around $24/pt. You can rent DVC points for $11-$16/pt. You can buy DVC points for around $7-$9/pt.*.  Cheapest resale (SSR) is $7-8/pt*; Poly direct is $9/pt*. You're saving money no matter which way you slice it, and can make 100% profit by renting, making large ownerships pay for themselves if you rent half the points.

*Calculating total price/total points _on contract + _MF/pt. to get actual cost you are paying per point _used_.


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