# Wyndham. No longer. In charge [Pahio Resorts going to Grand Pacific?]



## armrecsys (Aug 8, 2013)

I just finished an owner's meeting at the Makai Club, and we were informed that Wyndham will no longer manage the  following resorts:  Makai, Shearwater, Bali Hai Villas , Ka'eo Kai, Kauai Beach Beach Villas.  Grand Pacific will take over these resorts. Asked why - With no reply.

Anyone have any more on the change please, do tell.

I for one am Happy, Happy:rofl:


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## HatTrick (Aug 8, 2013)

armrecsys said:


> I just finished a owner. Meeting at the makai. Club and we informed that. Wyndham will no loner mangeing the  following resorts. Makai, sharewater, Bali haivillas , ka'eo Kai, kauai. Beach beach villas.  Grand pacific. Will tahe over these resorts. The. Why question. Came up. With no reply.
> 
> Any have any more on the change please. Do tell.
> 
> I for one is. Happyv. Happy:rofl:



Thank you. William. Shatner.


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

Really?  Wyndham is bailing on Pahio?  Interesting!  I wonder if Grand Pacific managing will give owners priority access into other GP resorts?

Dave


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## sjsharkie (Aug 8, 2013)

armrecsys said:


> I just finished a owner. Meeting at the makai. Club and we informed that. Wyndham will no loner mangeing the  following resorts. Makai, sharewater, Bali haivillas , ka'eo Kai, kauai. Beach beach villas.  Grand pacific. Will tahe over these resorts. The. Why question. Came up. With no reply.
> 
> Any have any more on the change please. Do tell.
> 
> I for one is. Happyv. Happy:rofl:



Does anyone else have confirmation of this.  Not that I don't believe the OP, but it came from an owner's meeting.

I'm not familiar with Grand Pacific so not sure whether that is for better or for worse.

-ryan


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## sjsharkie (Aug 8, 2013)

I just checked the Grand Pacific website and there is no news or updates to their list of properties.  I suspect it would take some time, but wouldn't they inform current owners of the impending change?

-ryan


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## presley (Aug 8, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I just checked the Grand Pacific website and there is no news or updates to their list of properties.  I suspect it would take some time, but wouldn't they inform current owners of the impending change?
> 
> -ryan



GPR is slow to let the cat out of the bag.  I find out what they takeover from these forums and then a couple months after I already know, GPR sends me an email telling me about it.  That's for me as a GPR owner and not as someone who owns something being taken over by GPR.

They've been asking at every owner's meeting, every newsletter, etc., always asking do we owners know any other resorts that they can take over management at.  I'm happy to see that they are taking on some more Hawaii. 

I have never stayed at a Wyndham, but I own several GPR.  I am very happy with the way things are run at the Grand pacific resorts.  I have no qualms about booking any of their other managed properties sight unseen.  Their internal exchange company has been great, too.


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## presley (Aug 8, 2013)

armrecsys said:


> The. Why question. Came up. With no reply.



Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that the contracts were up and GPR came in with a much lower offer.


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

presley said:


> Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that the contracts were up and GPR came in with a much lower offer.




When Wyndham took over managing Kauai Beach Villas, the first thing they did was slap a 17% maintenance fee increase on owners. Followed by a 12% increase the next two years.  Then they gutted the owner's reserve funds set aside to build a new KBV pool complex, so they could build a fancier one at Bali Hai. They ultimately gave KBV a gently remodeled swimming pool, but no compensation for the redirected funds.  As an owner at KBV who endured these abuses, I'd welcome a new management company. Hopefully, they'll get the fees under control and run the place properly, instead of beating up owners.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

Hmm.  I just called Kauai Beach Villas to ask when the changeover would happen.  I spoke with one of the office staff, who said Grand Pacific will ONLY be taking over Makai Club, and NOT the rest of the Pahio resorts.  She said whoever said that at the Owner's Update was wrong.  

I asked if she thought maybe Grand Pacific would take over the others later on, and she said there were no plans to that effect.  She said Wyndham will continue to manage everything but the Makai Club.



Dave


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## sjsharkie (Aug 8, 2013)

BMWguynw said:


> Hmm.  I just called Kauai Beach Villas to ask when the changeover would happen.  I spoke with one of the office staff, who said Grand Pacific will ONLY be taking over Makai Club, and NOT the rest of the Pahio resorts.  She said whoever said that at the Owner's Update was wrong.
> 
> I asked if she thought maybe Grand Pacific would take over the others later on, and she said there were no plans to that effect.  She said Wyndham will continue to manage everything but the Makai Club.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Dave for clarifying.

-ryan


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> Thanks, Dave for clarifying.
> 
> -ryan




You're welcome.  Darn it anyway. I'd like it if GP took over.  They do a great job with some of my favorite resorts in Southern California. 

Dave


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## sjsharkie (Aug 8, 2013)

BMWguynw said:


> You're welcome.  Darn it anyway. I'd like it if GP took over.  They do a great job with some of my favorite resorts in Southern California.
> 
> Dave



If you can figure out how to get on the board slate, you'd have my vote. 

-ryan


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## DeniseM (Aug 8, 2013)

What happens to people who bought at the Makai Club for Wyndham points?


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> What happens to people who bought at the Makai Club for Wyndham points?



No idea.  I think some Makai Club owners need to start making some phone calls.

Dave


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## slip (Aug 8, 2013)

I wonder why it's only the Makai Club?


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## ronparise (Aug 8, 2013)

Denise

There are several resorts, where there are Wyndham points owners, but that Wyndham doesnt manage. Fairfield Harbor and Star Island are two that come to mind. Also some affiliate resorts like Angel Fire

Remember points are only symbolic of ownership. The owners still own their weeks, and their weeks are still in the Fairshare Trust, and their points can still be used to make reservations at other properties that are in the trust


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## ronparise (Aug 8, 2013)

slip said:


> I wonder why it's only the Makai Club?



These resorts all have their own boards. This one must have voted to go with a different manager


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## jacknsara (Aug 8, 2013)

slip said:


> I wonder why it's only the Makai Club?


Aloha,
Pahio did not develop Makai Club.  Many years ago - before Wyndham bought the Pahio development as well as the management contract for the Pahio timeshares, Makai Club & its prior management fell on hard times.  I don't immediately recall the details.  It appeared to be a real positive for the Makai owners when Pahio took over the management.  Fees went up.  Conditions were improved.  All Pahio had there was the management contract.

Short of a major Wyndham divestiture, Pahio will always be part of Wyndham.  Wyndham owns (might be the wrong word - I'm not a lawyer) the underlying units for all the Bali Hai points club memberships sold since it took over.  While I have no specific information on current percentage of owners at the other Pahio resorts who have converted to the points system, by recall its around 20% at KBV.  It appears to me that Wyndham is gradually taking over control of KBV.  The following paragraph is from page 12 of the 2012 year auditor's report for KBV (it confirms in writing what I heard at an owners meeting - which is run by the resort manager and is not a sales meeting):

The Association has entered into an inventory foreclosure agreement with Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. (“WVR”). Under the terms of the agreement the Association agrees to promptly assign and WVR agrees to accept all ownership rights associated with all delinquent inventory that has been returned to the Association through foreclosure proceedings, deed in lieu of foreclosure or other take-back proceeding. In consideration for the assignment of title WVR shall pay the Association all reasonable attorney fees and other costs borne by the Association in connection with the foreclosure or take-back proceeding for the delinquent inventory, all closing costs in connection with the conveyance of title, excluding past due assessments, and any outstanding refurbishment special assessments. The aggregate consideration to be paid by WVR is not to exceed $1,000 per week foreclosed or taken-back. The agreement automatically renews for successive one-year periods until terminated. As of December 31, 2012, WVR owed the Association $131,333 for maintenance fees and is shown as due from WVR.

I have a variety of opinions about this.  On the positive side, we now have an exit strategy for our estate should our children not want the KBV units and the after market price is negative (costs to unload).

Jack


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## DaveNV (Aug 8, 2013)

jacknsara said:


> WVR agrees to accept all ownership rights associated with all delinquent inventory that has been returned to the Association through foreclosure proceedings, deed in lieu of foreclosure or other take-back proceeding.
> 
> Jack




I seem to recall hearing the delinquency/foreclosure rate at KBV was about 12%. That was a couple of years ago.

Dave


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## slip (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info. It's really a big change and hopefully it works out for
All the owners. 

I always thought of them all linked with Pahio and then Wyndham but like Ron
Said they would have their own boards.

It reminds me of the Pono Kai leaving Bluegreen and so far so good with that
Change.


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## jacknsara (Aug 8, 2013)

BMWguynw said:


> I seem to recall hearing the delinquency/foreclosure rate at KBV was about 12%. That was a couple of years ago.
> 
> Dave



Aloha Dave,
I have the same memory.  But that is/was the delinquency rate.  The 20% included former KBV weeks owners who had voluntarily converted to Wyndham points.  
Since voting rates are low (until/unless things become egregious) I figure Wyndham is already in effective control provided they don't trigger a revolt.  In a handful of years, Wyndham is likely to own almost all the 1B1B units (I haven't seen one sell for even $1 on ebay in a very long time) as well as many of the other units.  Within two handfuls, I expect Wyndham to control more than 50% of the units.
Jack


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## jacknsara (Aug 9, 2013)

slip said:


> . . .I always thought of them all linked with Pahio and then Wyndham but like Ron Said they would ave their own boards.
> . . .


Aloha slip,
I believe both statements are true.  
My memory is that Bali Hai, Shearwater, Ka'Eo Kai and Kauai Beach Villas are linked along with the PAHIO name within their legal documents.  I haven't read them in years. My recall is that it appeared that Wyndham discovered (or came to understand) that after they purchased because initial announcements were that names were going to change to Wyndham at (name of resort).  Ultimately, they had no choice but to retain Pahio in the name.
Each does have a separate set of finances and controlling boards.  Together, I imagine they could revolt.  The likelihood of that short of egregious management is very low.  Other than the high maintenance fees (which might very well be in line for Hawaii), I think they are doing a reasonable job managing the resort. 
Jack


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## armrecsys (Aug 9, 2013)

*Grand pacfic take over*



BMWguynw said:


> Hmm.  I just called Kauai Beach Villas to ask when the changeover would happen.  I spoke with one of the office staff, who said Grand Pacific will ONLY be taking over Makai Club, and NOT the rest of the Pahio resorts.  She said whoever said that at the Owner's Update was wrong.
> 
> I asked if she thought maybe Grand Pacific would take over the others later on, and she said there were no plans to that effect.  She said Wyndham will continue to manage everything but the Makai Club.
> 
> ...


I was at that meeting. With two personal , one from. Grand. Pacfic and one. From. Our. Personnel.  If they. Miss spoke. I wil. Continues to ask. Why.  But. I am glad. That. Grand pacfic is taking over the. Makai. Club.


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## DeniseM (Aug 9, 2013)

armrecsys said:


> I was at that meeting. With two personal , one from. Grand. Pacfic and one. From. Our. Personnel.  If they. Miss spoke. I wil. Continues to ask. Why.  But. I am glad. That. Grand pacfic is taking over the. Makai. Club.



A gentle suggestion:  Take a minute to edit your post for readability.


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## tfalk (Aug 9, 2013)

jacknsara said:


> Pahio did not develop Makai Club.  Many years ago - before Wyndham bought the Pahio development as well as the management contract for the Pahio timeshares, Makai Club & its prior management fell on hard times.  I don't immediately recall the details.  It appeared to be a real positive for the Makai owners when Pahio took over the management.  Fees went up.  Conditions were improved.  All Pahio had there was the management contract.



That pretty much agrees with my memory as well.  Makai Club was definately not developed by Pahio...  In fact, we stayed at the Makai Club in 1986, our first time in Princeville.  The units were OK but tiny and we decided to look at the other options which led us to KaEoKai...  

Personally, I'd be happy to see Wyndham take a hike...  We got shifted from KaEoKai to Bali Hai 2 years ago because the units we had reserved were 'under renovation' at the time... 2 years later, it looks like most of the units that were 'under renovation' 2 years ago STILL have not been renovated.  I really need to take a look at the owners documents when I get a chance - they should have MORE than sufficient funds available to renovate the entire place after we've been paying replacement reserves for 25+ years.


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## armrecsys (Aug 9, 2013)

*Grand pacfic. Take over*



sjsharkie said:


> Thanks, Dave for clarifying.
> 
> -ryan



I have ask different. People in the office why the. Board wanted. The. Grand. Pacfic. To take over,  no one. Had any answers.


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## armrecsys (Aug 9, 2013)

*GPRS. Take over*



presley said:


> GPR is slow to let the cat out of the bag.  I find out what they takeover from these forums and then a couple months after I already know, GPR sends me an email telling me about it.  That's for me as a GPR owner and not as someone who owns something being taken over by GPR.
> 
> They've been asking at every owner's meeting, every newsletter, etc., always asking do we owners know any other resorts that they can take over management at.  I'm happy to see that they are taking on some more Hawaii.
> 
> I have never stayed at a Wyndham, but I own several GPR.  I am very happy with the way things are run at the Grand pacific resorts.  I have no qualms about booking any of their other managed properties sight unseen.  Their internal exchange company has been great, too.


I Owen. At Carlsbad. Inn resort. Which is managed. By. GPRS.  No problems.   Now I don,t. Know if I should. Be happy. Or sad about. GPRS. Take. Over.   I did. Like being. Part of the   Wyndham  management


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## timeos2 (Aug 9, 2013)

BMWguynw said:


> When Wyndham took over managing Kauai Beach Villas, the first thing they did was slap a 17% maintenance fee increase on owners. Followed by a 12% increase the next two years._*  Then they gutted the owner's reserve funds set aside to build a new KBV pool complex, so they could build a fancier one at Bali Hai.*_ They ultimately gave KBV a gently remodeled swimming pool, but no compensation for the redirected funds.  As an owner at KBV who endured these abuses, I'd welcome a new management company. Hopefully, they'll get the fees under control and run the place properly, instead of beating up owners.
> 
> Dave



If these are two independent Associations then any co-mingling of funds would not be legal and could be challenged by either group of owners. How did they do this and not get in trouble?


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## DeniseM (Aug 9, 2013)

armrecsys said:


> I Owen. At Carlsbad. Inn resort. Which is managed. By. GPRS.  No problems.   Now I don,t. Know if I should. Be happy. Or sad about. GPRS. Take. Over.   I did. Like being. Part of the   Wyndham  management



What is with the strange sentence structure and periods?


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## presley (Aug 9, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> What is with the strange sentence structure and periods?



I'm thinking he is typing on something that does autocorrect and he doesn't normally punctuate.  English could be second language, too.


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## DaveNV (Aug 9, 2013)

presley said:


> I'm thinking he is typing on something that does autocorrect and he doesn't normally punctuate.  English could be second language, too.




And some devices insert periods if you put in two spaces in a row.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Aug 9, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> If these are two independent Associations then any co-mingling of funds would not be legal and could be challenged by either group of owners. How did they do this and not get in trouble?



I don't have all the details. I think it was related to all of the resorts in the Pahio group being handed over as a group to Wyndham by the man who was the previous owner. Then he was/is? on the Boards of the resorts.  Jack could probably answer that part better.  He's been an owner longer than I have.

Jack?  Do you see this?

Dave


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## ausman (Aug 9, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> What is with the strange sentence structure and periods?



Dragon Naturally Speaking can give results like that. 

I own and Owen are typical of it.


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## jacknsara (Aug 9, 2013)

timeos2 said:


> If these are two independent Associations then any co-mingling of funds would not be legal and could be challenged by either group of owners. How did they do this and not get in trouble?


Aloha,
I notice that some tuggers intermittently post various explanations regarding the initial KBV fund raising for the initial plan to replace the pool; sometimes a special assessment is mentioned.  My memory is different than others, but since I don't have documentary facts, I generally let it go without a response.
My memory: It started with a significant increase (more than $100) in annual fees (not special assessment; there has not been a KBV special assessment since we first became owners in 1998) that were supposed to stay high for a handful of years to raise the money for the pool replacement.  MFs were skyrocketing as developer sales at KBV concluded and developer subsidies disappeared.  I used to have an excel sheet that tracked the expense categories prior to Wyndham takeover.  Wyndham redefined the expense categories such that I could no longer track trends from pre- to post- takeover.  Every year there was another reason why nothing was happening with the pool replacement.  One year the story was that there was so much development work going on in Kauai that no contractor was willing to take on such a small job. The stories changed each year for a number of years that I do not remember. Finally, they re-landscaped around the current pool and did a few minor upgrades. It is nicer now, but we no longer use it. The impetus for the new pool was largely driven by the hostility of the new owner/developer of the condo-tel which shares the property (there is a joint association that shares common costs including things like the sewage treatment plant). Once the condo-tel developer went bankrupt, there was peace and goodwill in the neighborhood. The rationale for a major investment in a new pool melted away since KBVers can use the hotel pools (fee or free depending on the year).
I never noticed anything in the annual budget statement that led me to believe funds were transferred from KBV to the other resorts or vice versa.  The management fees went up a lot; I doubt that Wyndham uses that to transfer between resorts since it would not enhance their profit.
Jack


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## DaveNV (Aug 10, 2013)

jacknsara said:


> I never noticed anything in the annual budget statement that led me to believe funds were transferred from KBV to the other resorts or vice versa.  The management fees went up a lot; I doubt that Wyndham uses that to transfer between resorts since it would not enhance their profit.
> Jack




Thanks, Jack.  I knew you'd know the history of things.  My memory of things, as regards the money transfer between resorts, is that Lani Kaui (former KBV Manager) told me that directly, as the explanation one year for why the pool remodel wasn't happening, or why the initial pool design was being scaled down from the lazy river design to something approaching what we ended up with.  She is also the one who said there were no building companies who wanted such a small contract. There was also something about them forgetting to hire a landscaping company for the project, or some such.  This was shortly before she transferred out, to go work at the Wyndham offices in Princeville.

It doesn't matter, in the big picture.  I just wish Grand Pacific would take over management of KBV.  :whoopie:

Dave


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## sjsharkie (Aug 10, 2013)

BMWguynw said:


> It doesn't matter, in the big picture.  I just wish Grand Pacific would take over management of KBV.  :whoopie:
> 
> Dave



I spoke with someone at Grand Pacific today -- I had left a message through their "Contact Us" feature on their website.  They called me on my cell.

She confirmed that GP is only taking over Makai Club.  It was a pleasant conversation -- she indicated that they were pleased to win the contract and that there were no active plans to take over management for any of the other Pahio properties.

Just wanted to share that with the group.

-ryan


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## DaveNV (Aug 10, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> I spoke with someone at Grand Pacific today -- I had left a message through their "Contact Us" feature on their website.  They called me on my cell.
> 
> She confirmed that GP is only taking over Makai Club.  It was a pleasant conversation -- she indicated that they were pleased to win the contract and that there were no active plans to take over management for any of the other Pahio properties.
> 
> ...




Sounds like things are pretty clear. Thanks, Ryan.

Dave


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## PassionForTravel (Aug 10, 2013)

I remember reading an article in tstoday a few months ago about what went on at makai. The gist was that Wyndham kept raising the M/F and not doing improvements on the property. Enough people got fed up and the owners were able to get control of the board. They sent out the maintenance contract to competitive bid and Wyndham's bid came back something like 15% less than their first budget before they lost control of the board. The article made it sound like they were keeping Wyndham, but I guess not.

Ian


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## rifleman69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Interesting, I guess Grand Pacific underbid VI for Makai Club.


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## rifleman69 (Aug 11, 2013)

I stand corrected, VI will have use of one building at Makai Club.


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