# Just attended a Wyndham Vacation Ownership presentation in Maui



## cgiblin (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi
Arrived on Maui 5 days ago and the Kona windsand unstable weather  have been with us since we arrived. Poor weather and the offer of $175 brought us to attending a vacation ownership presentation. We are long time fixed weeks owners and we're also curious about points etc.  In the end we were interested, but  not enough to purchase. We will be on Maui a month and have the right to go back and take the original offer. I'm hoping to get feedback from those of you who are owners. Are you satisfied? Any drawbacks? They, of course, assure you that exchanges will be easy because they are internal exchanges. I can remember how easy exchanges were supposed to be when  we first bought in 1989.  Of course, we all learn quickly the reality of exchanging. This presentation is selling Wakaki Beach Walk as the home resort. 154,000 pts. (doubled for the first year) was about 21,000. Thoughts about this?  I'm always impressed with the wealth of info from TUG members so I'll gladly look for feedback. I mentioned this site to the presenter who claimed to know nothing of it.  Can't believe that. Well, the sun has been out for more than 5 minutes so I'm heading outside. Hope to hear from some of you.


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## Spence (Feb 1, 2007)

The deal will be there whenever you go back although the price may rise.  Of course he pleaded ignorance of the BBSs, then he doesn't have to discuss the merits.  Points are nice and they get you where you want to go if you plan ahead at the limits of the windows. $21K, are you kidding, you know they regularly go resale for $3-4.5K for that amount of points.


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## ronandjoan (Feb 1, 2007)

*FF (Wyndym ) points have been great*

Yes, very easy to use and trade, try to get more than just 154K though, gives much more flexibility

But buy them on resale


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 1, 2007)

Ask the sale's person show you the point chart for Waikiki.

154k will allow you to get 1 BR lower session at Prime Quite season (They have all season mark at prime, but FF's quite is same as RCI blue) using their internal trade.  If you want to be there, more likely, you have to rely on RCI exchange, which, once the develope ends will be gone.  Otherwise, it is wk 1 to 4, 35 to 39 and 44 to 50.

There will actually be better deal later on, since they will continue build more resort in better places if what they say in the investor presentation is more reliable then what they say in a sales effort.

Hawaii resale is usually a little bit better than others, but it probably not much better than Spense's range.

Jya-Ning


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## roadsister (Feb 1, 2007)

So if someone tells you it will be 400,000 points to rent at someplace for 1 week in a 2 bedroom  what does that equate to $$ wise?


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 1, 2007)

Does anyone know what that ebay listing of 511,000 Fairfield points went for?  It was just a few days ago and I forgot to mark it.  

If anyone can tell me how to look for sold ebay auctions, I would appreciate it.


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## roadsister (Feb 1, 2007)

So if someone (a salesman at FF Waikiki) tells you it will be 400,000 points to rent  for 1 week in a 2 bedroom  what does that equate to $$ wise?


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## TravlGrl (Feb 2, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Does anyone know what that ebay listing of 511,000 Fairfield points went for?  It was just a few days ago and I forgot to mark it.



I did a search of sold ebay items and tried keyword searches of "Fairfield" and "511,000" and "511K", and couldn't come up with anything.  To search sold items, follow these instructions:

From the home page, next to the Search button, click 'Advanced Search'.  Then, enter your description/keywords, and click the box below it that says 'Completed Listings Only'.  Click Search, and voila!  You'll end up with a lot of sold items, but hopefully you'll recognize the one you're looking for.

tj


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## HudsHut (Feb 2, 2007)

roadsister said:


> So if someone (a salesman at FF Waikiki) tells you it will be 400,000 points to rent  for 1 week in a 2 bedroom  what does that equate to $$ wise?




Faye:
Have you recently returned from FF Waikiki? If so, did you post a trip report/review somewhere? I'd like to know your impressions. I have a reservation for week of 3/31, but we haven't decided if I'm we're going to keep it. 

Regards,
Maria
Martinez, CA


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 2, 2007)

roadsister said:


> So if someone (a salesman at FF Waikiki) tells you it will be 400,000 points to rent  for 1 week in a 2 bedroom  what does that equate to $$ wise?



I assume you mean FF points right?

It depends on what your travel plan is, and how flexible you can be.

If you decide you must be there when it starts, and want to be there every year, and you will travel only in the prime season (the prime in that resort is wk 52, it will require 500k in lower unit, and 575k in higher unit and and 757k in president unit) and you believe the only way is to own at that resort start now, the retail price I heard is from $180 per 1K to $100 per 1 K.  The more point you purchased, the better you will be able to neg.

The OP get $21000 for 154k.  So it is 137 per 1K, and 400k means $55,000 plus MF and club due.  Usually it starts with low for 1 or 2 years, then up quickly.  At this moment, it usuaully start with $2 per 1k then $4 to $5 over 1K.  And if you pay all cash, assume you use it for 30 years, and give it out, you loss 55000/30 per year + 4.5 * 400 (MF, assume 4.5 avg in all 30 years, which is very unlikely) + 55000 * 6% (opportunity loss assume it is 6%), or the total purchase price *(opportunity loss + 1/live time usuage) + MF/per K * total K.  If you use 6% and 30 year, you will look at 9.3% per total purchase price. or about $7000 per year.  If you borrow some from developer, I believe the rate is around 14%, so you will add these interest you pay for the life in.

Assume you borrow all, the term I believe is 7 year, you pay total around $86,500.  So your cost will be around $9,500

If you don't mind to wait unitl the resort hit the resell market, then it may be 3 to 5 years, but the recent resell price is around $10 per 1 K to $80 per 1K.  The bigger the point, the less the dollar per point.  The earily you jump in, the more likely you will pay higher

Now, the question is do you want to be there every year?  If the answer is yes, then you will try to get 400k there.  Assume you jump in every opportunity you can get when it hit the market, if the current resell trend does not change, you probably end up paying $15,000 for 400k and at that moment, the MF is at $4 to $5 and may have a few year before it hit SA.

In this case, you jave wait say 5 years, so you may only use it for 25 years more

So assume you pay all cash, it is 15000 * 10% + 4.5 * 400 or $3300.

Now assume you are patient enough to only buy it at the price you preset, and assume you did not put too much pressure on your self your preset amount is $20 per 1K, you end up paying $8000 at longer year, and may clsoe to get a SA, but you manage to include SA in your total price.  So say you have spend 10 years to get that total point, and the MF is 4.5 still, your cost per year is

8000 * 11% + 4.5 * 400 or $2680

If you do either way, make sure you call at 13 month at 8:00 am East Time exact, you chance of fullfill is around 1/30 (since a good portion owner will not use the resort, and some owner will buy only a fraction of points so can not make any sense to fly here to make a vacation).

Now, assume you want be there all the time, and assume you realize you can take any open at 10 month, and you believe your chance is good, so you buy at resale for any contract that has less than $5 in MF at around $10 per 1K.

You will spend 1 to 2 years to get all the points, and say you pay $5 MF (although with careful planning, you probably end up paying $4 per 1k).

Your cost will be (still paying all cash)
$4000 * 9.5% + 5 * 400 or $2380.

Now, let us go one layer.  Assume you now realize all you want is be there once every 3 to 4 years due to the travel cost.  And you realize FF allows you to move points around internally for 3 years.  So you can pool all 3 year's point together.  So now you decide instead of  400K, you really need is 160k, so you can pool the point every 2 or 3 years and take 10 month vacation.

You go to resale market, spend 1 month at Oct, get that many points for $10 per 1K, with MF 4.5 per 1 K,

Your cost is, now, your opportunity is every 2.5 years, and you still spend 400k per trip, and you have cost to put the point into the credit pool every year you put it will be $25
1600 * (6% * 2.5 + 1/30) + 4.5 * 400 + 25 * 2.5 = $2155.78

If you do this, call at exactly 10 month, it will depends on how the owner takes the inventories, then VIP takes the inventories.

Now, let us say you don't care about the view, you will only be there once after you realize there may have over 500 top notch resort around the word, and your goal is try to visit as many as possible,

You watch the sighting, so it get developer deposit, get a deposit with your lowest MF, get one week vacation.

The cost is close to your MF, you probably do it once or twice depends on how many week you get in that batch and how many deposit developer makes.  Assume you put in $200 MF week, with exchange fee, RCI membership fee, you are looking at $400 per week and done with it.

Or, if you purchase a few points and rent point from members.  It is no guarantee what the renting price you are looking at, since you have no points purchase tie to that trip, you don't incur loss in the purchase price.  Renting is around $6 at this moment, say it stay at $7 per K.

You are looking at 
6 * 400 or $2800  You may not get at 10 month period.  You need to prepay when someone rent out the point, it probably 6 to 7 month on your travel period.

Or you realize there are group people rent the week in eBay, and you bid on their inventory.   Assume they get with 50% discount, and ask for $10 per 1k,
you are looking at 
10 * 200 or $2000, but this is assume the landlord will not charge premium, and the rental market will not go crazy on the property.

Or you realize RCI is put this on bid, and you bid on it.  Including sale tax, you may end up less than $2000, but you may not get any at all too.  But this is pure assumption.

Or you realize there is a possible airline resort package, with Airline, it may only add $200 per person in the resort stay.  It never know if this resort will be there or not, but you think the other package they put is competiable, so with 6 people, you get $1200 per trip cost. But this is just my assumption, have no really databack it up.

Or you could work for a boss, that give out this condo as bonus, and you pay $0 (well technically, since you actually may loss pay raise)  You may consider it cost you few thousands since with pay raise you will get it every year  

In short, your cost is $400 (one or two times exchange) to $10,000 (retail purchase)

That is call the flexibility of the point.  You can use it any way as you see fit as you like.


Jya-Ning


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## cgiblin (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks for all the great info. I didn't follow all of it, but it seems that it was good to walk away with my $175. The chart we were shown had 154,000 pts. getting a 2br in red time. Wyndam has in the last 6 mos. or so bought out Fairfield, so it's a combination of properties. I was told it didn't matter which resort you wantedto trade to, it was 154,000 for red 2 br. Actually, I have no interest in Waikiki, just want the ability to trade easily where and when I want without the usual games of the RCI and II plan. I'm on Maui now and that is the resort they are selling as the home resort. I don't think I would have been purchasing a specific unit and week. Please keep the info coming and I will definitely check the resale market. Aloha!


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## timeos2 (Feb 2, 2007)

*There is never a reason to buy FF retail unless*



cgiblin said:


> Thanks for all the great info. I didn't follow all of it, but it seems that it was good to walk away with my $175. The chart we were shown had 154,000 pts. getting a 2br in red time. Wyndam has in the last 6 mos. or so bought out Fairfield, so it's a combination of properties. I was told it didn't matter which resort you wantedto trade to, it was 154,000 for red 2 br. Actually, I have no interest in Waikiki, just want the ability to trade easily where and when I want without the usual games of the RCI and II plan. I'm on Maui now and that is the resort they are selling as the home resort. I don't think I would have been purchasing a specific unit and week. Please keep the info coming and I will definitely check the resale market. Aloha!



you, for some reason, absolutely have to have VIP. Believe me it's not worth the extra $$$.  In the Wyndham system points are points. You buy the lowest cost/annual fee you can find at a resort you feel wouldn't be so bad to visit if you had to OR one that is hard to book without the extra 3 months that home resort advantage gives you. There aren't many that need that but if you only want one of those (Myrtle Beach summer, maybe Hawaii if your real specific about dates, there aren't many others) then consider buying RESALE at one of those. Otherwise get the best deal - points are points. Until Wyndham decides to treat resale as a friend rather than foe one of the great values in timesharing- especially quality points timesharing- is in resale Wyndham points. And one of the great ripoffs, despite the quality and the number of resorts, is Wyndham retail.  If they plan to stay in the business they are going to have to change that at some time. In the meanwhile take advantage of some really great deals thanks to their pigheadedness.


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 2, 2007)

cgiblin said:


> Thanks for all the great info. I didn't follow all of it, but it seems that it was good to walk away with my $175. The chart we were shown had 154,000 pts. getting a 2br in red time. Wyndam has in the last 6 mos. or so bought out Fairfield, so it's a combination of properties.



Well, Wyndham did not bought out Fairfield.  Cadent bought FF 6 years ago, then bought Wyndham's name right, then split itself into three companies, and gave the Wyndham name to the one that owns FF and Trendwest and RCI.

The chart you look at is the grid FF can use to deposit to RCI for exchange.  It guarantees you can get a 2 BD to deposit into RCI.  Anything but that is no guarantee.

Jya-Ning


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## roadsister (Feb 2, 2007)

hudshut said:


> Faye:
> Have you recently returned from FF Waikiki? If so, did you post a trip report/review somewhere? I'd like to know your impressions. I have a reservation for week of 3/31, but we haven't decided if I'm we're going to keep it.
> 
> Regards,
> ...



Hi Maria,
I posted a review here on TUG and on the WM4M both. Read it and if you have any questions, email me


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