# HGVC new loyalty tiers for direct owners



## johnnyrocket237 (May 2, 2022)

I attended a timeshare presentation and it seems like they are replacing the existing three tier eee elite for direct buyers with new rewards (for direct buyers). This is a draft / not yet official guide to the new tiers.
i don’t understand all of it but though it would be interesting to get the opinions from the community as to whether it has any effect on existing resale owners or what this means.  
In particular, don’t understand redemption, flexibility, or value. tiered priority access. Or whether resale owners will automatically get standard since range starts at 0.


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## HuskerATL (May 2, 2022)

This matches others that have been shared. Look under one of the other threads to compare. Where was your presentation? There are people on FB arguing that these are DGI Max Tiers but I think they are just Max Tiers for anyone in Max.


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## HuskerATL (May 2, 2022)

Here they are from the other thread, 



https://imgur.com/a/KVrf8Qt


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 2, 2022)

what will this mean for open season? do you think they might do away with it as a max only perk?


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## jabberwocky (May 2, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> what will this mean for open season? do you think they might do away with it as a max only perk?


Would they really want to eliminate getting cash from anyone for what would otherwise be unsold rooms?  I could see them offering an open season discount to max owners perhaps, but at the end of the day my money as a legacy resale owner should be just as good as someone else’s.


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## HuskerATL (May 2, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> what will this mean for open season? do you think they might do away with it as a max only perk?


I don't think OS is going anywhere.


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## HuskerATL (May 2, 2022)

The Surprise and Delight bullet is kind of funny....maybe folks would be surprised and delighted if they actually got it.


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## PigsDad (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> I attended a timeshare presentation and it seems like they are replacing the existing three tier eee elite for direct buyers with new rewards (for direct buyers).


They are not _replacing_ the existing Elite tiers -- what you saw was the "elite" tiers for the MAX members.  For HGV legacy members (those who choose not to buy into the MAX program), the Elite tiers are remaining the same.  You might not want to believe everything you hear from a salesperson, as they have a terrible reputation for saying anything in order to get their marks to fork over tons of money.

Kurt


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> They are not _replacing_ the existing Elite tiers


I am not sure about this. In the presentation that I had, he didn't necessarily refer to Max for the Tiers and this picture from my presentation says, "Formerly known as Elite,..." and doesn't say Max on it.


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## escanoe (May 3, 2022)

Hmmmmm. I wonder if the note on the bottom about the Registry Collection no longer being available could be an indication that RCI may not be in HGV’s future???

I am not going to read much into what is said on the sales floor on elite benefits …. but it may be a small tell.




HuskerATL said:


> I am not sure about this. In the presentation that I had, he didn't necessarily refer to Max for the Tiers and this picture from my presentation says, "Formerly known as Elite,..." and doesn't say Max on it.
> 
> View attachment 53680


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

Of course from this page, it appears the tiers are just Max but we will see what is actually rolled out when Max is real.









						Earn More Rewards with Hilton Grand Vacations Membership Tiers
					

Take advantage of all the benefits of timeshare, and check out the available upgrades at Hilton Grand Vacations.




					www.hiltongrandvacations.com


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## audirt (May 3, 2022)

So the 10-mo search is going to be a perk of Elite members that buy into Max?  Is that the consensus?

I could have my in-laws gift their (retail) ownership to us and that would give us enough points (20k) to be "preferred", but there's no point if I'm going to have to shell out $$$ to join Max.  The only feature of Max that is remotely tempting to me is that 10-month booking window.


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

audirt said:


> So the 10-mo search is going to be a perk of Elite members that buy into Max?  Is that the consensus?
> 
> I could have my in-laws gift their (retail) ownership to us and that would give us enough points (20k) to be "preferred", but there's no point if I'm going to have to shell out $$$ to join Max.  The only feature of Max that is remotely tempting to me is that 10-month booking window.


We will see what the Loyalty Search Request actually does when it is implemented but I don't think a gift will get you into Max.  You would need to add new money in some way, such as an upgrade or the $7k initiation fee that is supposed to be coming later this year for HGVClub Legacy folks.


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 3, 2022)

jabberwocky said:


> Would they really want to eliminate getting cash from anyone for what would otherwise be unsold rooms?  I could see them offering an open season discount to max owners perhaps, but at the end of the day my money as a legacy resale owner should be just as good as someone else’s.



glad to hear this, this was also my thought.
my sales person told me that open season was “not for me” and that I should worry about “legitimatizing” my ownership by upgrading.
i just bought my resale last year and was actually staying using open season points.
btw the new 2022 rule book does have a statement that is worrisome for open season:

”Persons who acquire their ownership interest from the resale market may receive limited Club benefits, including, but not limited to, restrictions on the ability to convert ClubPoints into Hilton Honors Points on an every-use-year basis and on the use of Open Season rental benefits.”

also i just closed on a penthouse unit at Grand Islander, which reflected on my hgvc account as of Saturday. I tried looking at Penthouse open season and it is still saying that I must be a penthouse owner to use… which I now am.

so either they haven’t updated their system fully to reflect this, or they have implemented a change where new resale owners cannot use open season. (My non-penthouse OS still works fine, but I also bought a property last nov, so perhaps they will grandfather in existing owners).


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> ”Persons who acquire their ownership interest from the resale market may receive limited Club benefits, including, but not limited to


Key word is "may". I have not heard of resale owners without access to OS. I do but I own both so others, with only resale, would need to verify.


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 3, 2022)

Another interesting question: 
currently they are trying to pressure resale owners to “upgrade” to get into HgcMax. For me, sales lady wanted me to exchange 1B for 2B (both ocean view platinum Grand Islander) for $15k ($135k-$120k, their pricing).
but for upgrading, my suspicion is that you are selling a deeded property with existing MF for the new point-based trust-system property with fixed MF $0.22/pt (which I read about in another thread). If so that is highly tricky… You think that you are selling one deed for another, but you might actually He giving up your deed entirely.


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## escanoe (May 3, 2022)

I am 100% resale. I have never booked using OS. But it appears to be an option and lets me click all the through to the payment screen. 




HuskerATL said:


> Key word is "may". I have not heard of resale owners without access to OS. I do but I own both so others, with only resale, would need to verify.


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> Another interesting question:
> currently they are trying to pressure resale owners to “upgrade” to get into HgcMax. For me, sales lady wanted me to exchange 1B for 2B (both ocean view platinum Grand Islander) for $15k ($135k-$120k, their pricing).
> but for upgrading, my suspicion is that you are selling a deeded property with existing MF for the new point-based trust-system property with fixed MF $0.22/pt (which I read about in another thread). If so that is highly tricky… You think that you are selling one deed for another, but you might actually He giving up your deed entirely.


They tried that with me also but I would have had a deed for the new one. I didn't do it. It will be interesting to see what options resale only folks have for Max. There will be the option to pay $7k to join later this year but, that may only be for HGVClub Legacy retail owners. There have been comments that resale owners will need to upgrade.  We will see.


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## dayooper (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> Another interesting question:
> currently they are trying to pressure resale owners to “upgrade” to get into HgcMax. For me, sales lady wanted me to exchange 1B for 2B (both ocean view platinum Grand Islander) for $15k ($135k-$120k, their pricing).
> *but for upgrading, my suspicion is that you are selling a deeded property with existing MF for the new point-based trust-system property with fixed MF $0.22/pt (which I read about in another thread).* If so that is highly tricky… You think that you are selling one deed for another, but you might actually He giving up your deed entirely.



I don't think that's the case. The points based system hasn't been implemented yet, nor has it been mentioned by anybody other than sales people. There have been sales people that have said they don't know where the talk of a points system is coming from. I get the feeling that the $0.22 MF per point is just a scare tactic to get owners to buy now. I wouldn't believe anything that comes from a sales person's mouth.


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## PigsDad (May 3, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I am not sure about this. In the presentation that I had, he didn't necessarily refer to Max for the Tiers and this picture from my presentation says, "Formerly known as Elite,..." and doesn't say Max on it.


Well, I am going by what has been published, and don't put much stock into sales material that is created to help the sales staff close more retail deals.  I guess we will just have to see when this all settles out, but they have been indicating that they will not be changing legacy programs, so why would they increase benefits for those Elite members who do not buy into MAX?

Kurt


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> so why would they increase benefits for those Elite members who do not buy into MAX?


Because they appreciate all the money these folks have spent in the past.... Wait...never mind.


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## audirt (May 3, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> We will see what the Loyalty Search Request actually does when it is implemented but I don't think a gift will get you into Max.  You would need to add new money in some way, such as an upgrade or the $7k initiation fee that is supposed to be coming later this year for HGVClub Legacy folks.


Yes, I totally agree and meant to add a "plus $7k Max fee" on my original post.

Like you, I want to see what comes of the actual 10-month search, if it happens.  My perception is that very few HGV members are Elite, so the rollout of that feature might be marginal.


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## ocdb8r (May 3, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I don't think that's the case. *The points based system hasn't been implemented yet*, nor has it been mentioned by anybody other than sales people. There have been sales people that have said they don't know where the talk of a points system is coming from. I get the feeling that the $0.22 MF per point is just a scare tactic to get owners to buy now. I wouldn't believe anything that comes from a sales person's mouth.



The points based system already exists - they are selling the Diamond resorts trust points products.


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## dayooper (May 3, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> The points based system already exists - they are selling the Diamond resorts trust points products.



They aren’t selling that as an HGVC product. Could they in the future? Sure, but HGVC is still in the business of selling deeds.


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## GT75 (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> my sales person told me that open season was “not for me” and that I should worry about “legitimatizing” my ownership by upgrading.


What your salesperson was actually trying to do was sell you something/anything in order to make a commission.   That is what they always are going to do on each and every owners update (aka sales presentation).


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## Talent312 (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> my sales person told me that open season was “not for me” and that I should worry about “legitimatizing” my ownership by upgrading...



Open season is not for me, either. I don't like no-refund, no-change.
I'd rather stay in a hotel room I can cancel, unless I know I'm going.

OTOH, I also prefer being illegitimate. Perhaps I'm just weird that way.


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## GT75 (May 3, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> This is a draft / not yet official guide to the new tiers.


This has been reported in several other threads already.    My personal take is to wait until it is officially released.    I don't understand why HGV is leaking unofficial information.


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## HuskerATL (May 3, 2022)

Earn More Rewards with Hilton Grand Vacations Membership Tiers
					

Take advantage of all the benefits of timeshare, and check out the available upgrades at Hilton Grand Vacations.




					www.hiltongrandvacations.com


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## tombanjo (May 3, 2022)

they "leak" a bunch of crap and check the reaction. If people really go negative on it, they move to scenario two, etc. If they commit in an ironclad way, and it causes a terrible pushback, they are stuck. This way they can gauge how much they can get away with. Just my guess.


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## PigsDad (May 4, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Earn More Rewards with Hilton Grand Vacations Membership Tiers
> 
> 
> Take advantage of all the benefits of timeshare, and check out the available upgrades at Hilton Grand Vacations.
> ...


Excellent find!  As you can see on that page, there is the new MAX tiers and separate HGVC tiers (aka legacy Elite levels), which are still Elite, Elite Plus, and Elite Premier.  It looks like the benefits of the HGVC tiers has pretty much stayed the same.  To me, that is good news.

Kurt


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## ocdb8r (May 4, 2022)

dayooper said:


> *They aren’t selling that as an HGVC product*. Could they in the future? Sure, but HGVC is still in the business of selling deeds.



They are selling it as a "Hilton Vacations Club" product - all (formerly) Diamond points products now sold get you access to "HGV Max" which entitles you to access to both the Diamond resorts trust properties AND HGVC properties (albeit the latter at what appears to be a shortened 6 month window).  

This was one of the main purposes of the acquisition - Hilton Vacations Club gained access to a points product they could start selling immediately.  The only work they had to do was create some sort of internal exchange system so they could "sell" it all as one big wonderful package.


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## ocdb8r (May 4, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Excellent find!  As you can see on that page, there is the new MAX tiers and separate HGVC tiers (aka legacy Elite levels), which are still Elite, Elite Plus, and Elite Premier.  It looks like the benefits of the HGVC tiers has pretty much stayed the same.  To me, that is good news.
> 
> Kurt


...for now.  I wonder how long they will continue with separate tiers?  Nothing prevents them from changing the (legacy) Elite program to match what they're rolling out for HGVMax.


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## dayooper (May 4, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> They are selling it as a "Hilton Vacations Club" product - all (formerly) Diamond points products now sold get you access to "HGV Max" which entitles you to access to both the Diamond resorts trust properties AND HGVC properties (albeit the latter at what appears to be a shortened 6 month window).
> 
> This was one of the main purposes of the acquisition - Hilton Vacations Club gained access to a points product they could start selling immediately.  The only work they had to do was create some sort of internal exchange system so they could "sell" it all as one big wonderful package.



Yes, understand they are selling trust points on the DRI/HVC side. As of right now, they are still selling deeds on the HGVC side. I also understand that each sales center has the ability to sell both sides. Yes, they can lie about what they are selling.


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## HuskerATL (May 4, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Excellent find!  As you can see on that page, there is the new MAX tiers and separate HGVC tiers (aka legacy Elite levels), which are still Elite, Elite Plus, and Elite Premier.  It looks like the benefits of the HGVC tiers has pretty much stayed the same.  To me, that is good news.
> 
> Kurt


I will say though that GT75 had an interesting observation that you can only get to that link by searching for it directly. You can't browse to it...I have tried to reverse engineer the browse and can't get to it so that is odd.  It is on their page though but you have to know it is there and google it or use a direct link versus browse to it from the other content.


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## ocdb8r (May 4, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Yes, understand they are selling trust points on the DRI/HVC side. As of right now, they are still selling deeds on the HGVC side. I also understand that each sales center has the ability to sell both sides. Yes, they can lie about what they are selling.



1) I don't see any "lie" insinuated - it sounds like one of the posters here was offered to "upgrade" to HGVMax by trading in their HGVC deeds (plus cash) in exchange for some number of HGVMax points.  Where is the lie in that?  Is it a good idea, probably not (certainly not for me), but simply offering deeded week owners the option to turn in their deeds as part of an "upgrade" into HGVMax, doesn't make it a "lie."

2) your initial response was "they aren't selling that as an HGVC product" - what's the difference?  If HGVMax points legitimately gives an owner access to HGVC (at a 6 month/60/30day window) it is an "HGVC product".  Yes, I fully understand that all currently existing HGVC resorts are only being sold as a deeded week, that doesn't mean it's the sole "HGVC product" on offer.


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## dayooper (May 4, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> 1) I don't see any "lie" insinuated - it sounds like one of the posters here was offered to "upgrade" to HGVMax by trading in their HGVC deeds (plus cash) in exchange for some number of HGVMax points.  Where is the lie in that?  Is it a good idea, probably not (certainly not for me), but simply offering deeded week owners the option to turn in their deeds as part of an "upgrade" into HGVMax, doesn't make it a "lie."
> 
> 2) your initial response was "they aren't selling that as an HGVC product" - what's the difference?  If HGVMax points legitimately gives an owner access to HGVC (at a 6 month/60/30day window) it is an "HGVC product".  Yes, I fully understand that all currently existing HGVC resorts are only being sold as a deeded week, that doesn't mean it's the sole "HGVC product" on offer.



1. I didn't see it as a lie either. The person I replied to was worried they were going to try and sneak an HGVC points program instead of a Grand Islander deed (which, as I'm sure you know is pretty valuable). They haven't started that program yet. While I know what you are trying to get at, we aren't there yet as there has been no mention of any points only on this side of the house. In fact, the only time we have heard that it was going to a points system is from salesman. The big issue I was trying to address was the worry of the $0.22 MF per points. That was pure speculation.

2. But there is a differentiation. Those points sold from the other side are not HGVC, they are HVC. As of right now, HGV Max is only a cross platform membership that does not give the same rights to both sides of the company. They are, and as far as what has been said publicly by the leaders of HGV, will remain separate. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree with the idea. I have a very hard time believing that potential HGV Max points from the HGVC side would ever have a 6 month window in HGVC, just like HVC points (DRI) would ever have only a 6 month window on that side. In fact, in DRI they can't. The rules of the trust are very definite on what they can and can't do. You just can't take weeks out of a trust (DRI Trust) and add them to another with out replacing them. This means that those people who bought into the HVC trust have the same window they always have had.

We can get pedantic all we want, but right now, they are not selling an HGVC points program. They are selling HVC Trust points that have their own rules and perks that can be used at 6 months at HGVC. The biggest issue I have with this whole thing is the fact that salesman are allowed to set the narrative and spew just about anything they want to scare people to buy. The person I replied to was caught in the speculation (in a good way).

I really do appreciate your points of view and from a certain point of view, you are absolutely correct. We may or may not be heading into a trust program with HGVC. Anything is possible. A vacation club type of points arrangement (without a trust) will fall flat on it's face and HGV Leadership know that.


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## escanoe (May 4, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Hmmmmm. I wonder if the note on the bottom about the Registry Collection no longer being available could be an indication that RCI may not be in HGV’s future???
> 
> I am not going to read much into what is said on the sales floor on elite benefits …. but it may be a small tell.



And I will reply to my own post saying it was baseless speculation. In the updated benefits @PigsDad posted, the Registry Collection remains a benefit at the very top level.


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## Mongoose (May 4, 2022)

Has anyone else noticed that the new Hilton Vacation Club properties like Sedona Summit do not appear on the HGVC owner or DRI public website, but are on the Hilton.com website?


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## holdaer (May 4, 2022)

See Resorts and Destinations on HGV public website:









						Hilton Grand Vacations
					

At Hilton Grand Vacations, we believe life is incomplete without vacations. Learn how you can see the world from the comfort of our timeshare resorts




					www.hiltongrandvacations.com
				




Arizona (Sedona & Scottsdale), California (Lake Tahoe), Virginia (Williamsburg & Virginia Beach)  

Tennessee is missing a resort listing.


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## HuskerATL (May 4, 2022)

holdaer said:


> See Resorts and Destinations on HGV public website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are on this page but not on the HGVC member site to actually book.


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## Mongoose (May 4, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> They are on this page but not on the HGVC member site to actually book.


Right, from what I can tell they can only be booked on Hilton.com.  I wonder if they are still bookable on the DRI member site?


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## holdaer (May 4, 2022)

Correct.  Those resorts won't be on the HGVC website to book.  Eventually, there will be a new HGV MAX website that will allow bookings.


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## Mongoose (May 4, 2022)

holdaer said:


> Correct.  Those resorts won't be on the HGVC website to book.  Eventually, there will be a new HGV MAX website that will allow bookings.


I have to believe that DRI owners  still have access to book, at least those the that collection.


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 4, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Here they are from the other thread,
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/KVrf8Qt



in these charts, it looks like your HGVMax tier is based solely on total club points, without regard to how they were purchased. Do we know if those point tiers for new loyalty program are for “qualified points”, or once you’re a max member, it’s just your total point value and they don’t care if it’s resale or not.


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## dayooper (May 4, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> in these charts, it looks like your HGVMax tier is based solely on total club points, without regard to how they were purchased. Do we know if those point tiers for new loyalty program are for “qualified points”, or once you’re a max member, it’s just your total point value and they don’t care if it’s resale or not.



They are developer bought.


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## 90_Min_Sales_Pitch (May 5, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> I have to believe that DRI owners  still have access to book, at least those the that collection.



I asked one of the DRI Facebook groups.  All responses claimed to still have access to the HGV properties.

Years ago we did a DRI presentation, that involved screaming and shouting, that carried on to the floor above us.  Our main salesman convinced another, that we would be easy targets to buy the sampler, then bet money on it that this agent wouldn't being able to pull it off.  2nd agent, after being told no, "What??  He said you guys would be easy!!  He tricked me out of $50!  NOOOO, I'm going to get him, where are you at!!!!..."

I joined the Facebook group after, just to read more stories.


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## HuskerATL (May 5, 2022)

They have changed this page now and removed the benefits for each Max Tier: https://www.hiltongrandvacations.co...Bk0A5ojxqWN-2Y5bCTHgZI9_wd06AUa9KCH-3nT8rjzKQ


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## Talent312 (May 5, 2022)

"Fasten your seatbelts. Its going to be a bumpy night."
-- Betty Davis in "All About Eve" (1950)
.


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## HuskerATL (May 5, 2022)

I guess that we should have gotten screen shots from that page and to compare to what it ends up.  Funny that they removed it and didn't update the publish date on the article.  They must have lurkers on TUG and/or FB where it was posted. This is a a footnote on the page though: *HGV Max benefit available late 2022. Existing Hilton Grand Vacations Club Members retain current Hilton Honors Conversion.


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## MattnTricia (May 12, 2022)

Elite Premier Legacy Owner who is trying to keep up with all the news. 

1)Is there any confirmation that the HGVMax Program Tiers and Elite Legacy tiers will be completely separate moving forward? I have seen conflicting info from all of the posts i have seen. 

2)Is there a post anywhere where an HGVC member was allowed to upgrade his membership for $7000 without a new property puchase?

3)Is there an actual complete launch date of Max other than summer?


We are headed to HGVC in July and Possibly late June.  Trying ot decide if we get hooked in to a presentation or not since it seems like everything is still so unsettled.


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## HuskerATL (May 12, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> Elite Premier Legacy Owner who is trying to keep up with all the news.
> 
> 1)Is there any confirmation that the HGVMax Program Tiers and Elite Legacy tiers will be completely separate moving forward? I have seen conflicting info from all of the posts i have seen.
> 
> ...



there is this, https://www.hiltongrandvacations.co...Bk0A5ojxqWN-2Y5bCTHgZI9_wd06AUa9KCH-3nT8rjzKQ .

No $7k offer yet and no launch date.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 12, 2022)

In the earnings call transcript, HGVC did state that legacy owners will be able to buy a membership in HGVMax later this year without buying a new deed.  I assume that is when the $7K fee will become relevant.  

While many of us are frustrated with the slow release of information.  It makes sense that they are including Max membership as soon as the program is first announced.  I am sure people would either decide against purchasing if they knew it was coming, or would be really pissed off if they bought now only to learn that there was a fee to join later in the year...

As for us existing owners,  my guess is very few would pay a fee to join until the details of membership are formally released..


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## SmithOp (May 12, 2022)

Why would an Elite, or any HGV member for that matter want to pay to access the lower tier HV Club resorts?

My points have more value at the Grand Resorts, if I want lower tier I'll pay cash at Hilton dot com.

Max has dubious value even if they gave it to me free...

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Mongoose (May 12, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> Why would an Elite, or any HGV member for that matter want to pay to access the lower tier HV Club resorts?
> 
> My points have more value at the Grand Resorts, if I want lower tier I'll pay cash at Hilton dot com.
> 
> ...


Because they may not have locations where you want to go.  Diamond provides access to locations like Sedona.


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## pacman777 (May 12, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> Because they may not have locations where you want to go.  Diamond provides access to locations like Sedona.



just buy resale Hyatt Residence Club. Much better quality than Diamond


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## Mongoose (May 12, 2022)

pacman777 said:


> just buy resale Hyatt Residence Club. Much better quality than Diamond


I already own two weeks, and I agree.  Not only nicer, but less expensive to own.  But on paper, I can see the attraction.  In reality, there won't be much in the way of key weeks and locations available in the program.


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## PigsDad (May 12, 2022)

pacman777 said:


> just buy resale Hyatt Residence Club. Much better quality than Diamond


If someone already had all the HGVC points they can use, why would they buy another week or into another point system just to access a location they may want to visit once or twice?  Although it is not for me, I can see the extra locations (even though they are a lower tier than HGVC) being a pull for existing owners who 1) own enough points already and 2) want the option of more locations to use those points.

Kurt


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## dayooper (May 12, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> If someone already had all the HGVC points they can use, why would they buy another week or into another point system just to access a location they may want to visit once or twice?  Although it is not for me, I can see the extra locations (even though they are a lower tier than HGVC) being a pull for existing owners who 1) own enough points already and 2) want the option of more locations to use those points.
> 
> Kurt



I get that, but to pay $7000 buy more points, trade in some points or just use another system is ridiculous in it’s own right.


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## Mongoose (May 12, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I get that, but to pay $7000 buy more points, trade in some points or just use another system is ridiculous in it’s own right.


Absolutely!


----------



## MattnTricia (May 13, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I get that, but to pay $7000 buy more points, trade in some points or just use another system is ridiculous in it’s own right.



Actually I am not so sure the $7000 is "ridiculous" depending on how the benefits end up shaking out to go from Elite Premier to HGVMax Centum +.
I have been a loyal HGVC Elite Premier member for 15+ years now and have enjoyed Elite status for many years when most have said it provides no value.
I also own a Vistana Week to access their point system and a Welk package to play within their system as well.

Here is what I see from HGV Max

1)I typically use open season for weekend trips to Vegas vs Points as the Elite Cash rate is a great value..   I would probably burn up a good chunk of the $1000 a year in this benefit most years

2)Exclusive booking windows offering priority access to accommodations. This would actually be the key for me as I am Elite Premier but my points are owned at an affiliate where I don't stay.

3)Access to South Lake Tahoe and other locations which I do not currently have access to through HGVC - Yes I could buy a cheap week but I would prefer to be able to book it through my HGVC account and points. This is a location I would use several times a year. As an FYI I owned Diamond Lake Tahoe Vacation resort before and if it wasn't for Diamond being a horrid company I would still own it.

4)Extra $100 in Lyft pass benefit a year which I definitely would use

5)Loyalty Search requests before the 9 month window. Depending on how this works this in itself could help pay for an upgrade fee quickly for someone like me who typically travels only during peak times.

6)$100 yearly resort credit

7)Guaranteed late checkout with Centum which is not currently guaranteed with Elite Premier

In a nutshell I think I would recoup ~$1000-$1500 a year in benefits assuming the perks above do not get added to my existing Elite Premier Legacy membership.   I also think that the new resorts and some booking advantages would provide even more value to a program I already really enjoy.  In a nutshell I see it as a 4-5 year ROI assuming the investment would be $7k. There is no doubt the 6 month booking window is a head scratcher but I think I would still pull the trigger on it if the details above end up correct.  I would definitely say though that I have no desire to increase my MF any more with new points as I am definitely not in need of more.


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## SmithOp (May 13, 2022)

@MattnTricia are you sure that they will allow HGVC Elite to go straight across to Max Centum for $7k? What if they require buying all new Max points?

I can get to Sedona using RCI or Interval, or cash on the hotel web sites. Sure, the sales people will try scare tactics that those deposits will dry up, I'll deal with that if it happens.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> @MattnTricia are you sure that they will allow HGVC Elite to go straight across to Max Centum for $7k? What if they require buying all new Max points?
> 
> I can get to Sedona using RCI or Interval, or cash on the hotel web sites. Sure, the sales people will try scare tactics that those deposits will dry up, I'll deal with that if it happens.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


I just wonder if availability will be any better in Max vs RCI or II.


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## dayooper (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> Actually I am not so sure the $7000 is "ridiculous" depending on how the benefits end up shaking out to go from Elite Premier to HGVMax Centum +.
> I have been a loyal HGVC Elite Premier member for 15+ years now and have enjoyed Elite status for many years when most have said it provides no value.
> I also own a Vistana Week to access their point system and a Welk package to play within their system as well.
> 
> ...



If you have 100,000 existing developer bought points, sure. I don’t think there are many HGVC members who are in the same boat as you, though. 

Here’s what I think the ridiculous part is. If you already spent that kind of money on 100,000 developer bought (or even that many from places like Scotland or SW Florida), HGVC still wants you to spend more money to join Max. It’s a ridiculous notion to treat their customers in that way.


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

dayooper said:


> If you have 100,000 existing developer bought points, sure. I don’t think there are many HGVC members who are in the same boat as you, though.
> 
> Here’s what I think the ridiculous part is. If you already spent that kind of money on 100,000 developer bought (or even that many from places like Scotland or SW Florida), HGVC still wants you to spend more money to join Max. It’s a ridiculous notion to treat their customers in that way.


I don’t think people that pay that kind of money for developer points will blink an eye.  My concern is the impact this will have on availability.  There are many more diamond owners that will have access to HGVC, which will pinch off supply to nonMax owners at the 6month mark.


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## HuskerATL (May 13, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> I don’t think people that pay that kind of money for developer points will blink an eye.  My concern is the impact this will have on availability.  There are many more diamond owners that will have access to HGVC, which will pinch off supply to nonMax owners at the 6month mark.


I would be curious though how many with that many points did it all through developer purchases.  I suspect most have some retail but mostly elite eligible resales.  Not that this was the conversation but just to toss it out there that they may not have spent as much as you think and may push back on a $7k fee.


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## dayooper (May 13, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> I don’t think people that pay that kind of money for developer points will blink an eye.  My concern is the impact this will have on availability.  There are many more diamond owners that will have access to HGVC, which will pinch off supply to nonMax owners at the 6month mark.



Doesn't matter whether they can afford it or not. It's a matter of respect and expectations. There are many who did push back who were the higher levels of elite stating they gave enough already. Do we really know if we will have many more DRI owners that will have access? We are all making assumptions on this. I do agree there are a few owners that aquired their elite status buying through affiliates.


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Doesn't matter whether they can afford it or not. It's a matter of respect and expectations. There are many who did push back who were the higher levels of elite stating they gave enough already. Do we really know if we will have many more DRI owners that will have access? We are all making assumptions on this. I do agree there are a few owners that aquired their elite status buying through affiliates.


I agree about the respect part.  From what I have read in filings Diamond has 400,000+ and Hilton has 220,000+


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## MattnTricia (May 13, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> @MattnTricia are you sure that they will allow HGVC Elite to go straight across to Max Centum for $7k? What if they require buying all new Max points?
> 
> I can get to Sedona using RCI or Interval, or cash on the hotel web sites. Sure, the sales people will try scare tactics that those deposits will dry up, I'll deal with that if it happens.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk



That is what


HuskerATL said:


> I would be curious though how many with that many points did it all through developer purchases.  I suspect most have some retail but mostly elite eligible resales.  Not that this was the conversation but just to toss it out there that they may not have spent as much as you think and may push back on a $7k fee.



100% correct on the upfront cost- I think a lot of Elite Premier's are people like me who have bought most  of their points through qualified resales .  As for the pushback on the $7000 fee it will depend on what the benefits end up being vs what our current program will be. If I can get back $1200 a year + / - on a $7k investment knowing I will be using this program for many years to come  and gain access to things I don't currently have without increasing my MF it is actually a no brainer.

.


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## HuskerATL (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> That is what
> 
> 
> 100% correct on the upfront cost- I think a lot of Elite Premier's are people like me who have bought most  of their points through qualified resales .  As for the pushback on the $7000 fee it will depend on what the benefits end up being vs what our current program will be. If I can get back $1200 a year + / - on a $7k investment knowing I will be using this program for many years to come  and gain access to things I don't currently have without increasing my MF it is actually a no brainer.
> ...


I am in the same boat and will evaluate the benefits before doing anything.


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.  For small owners $7K for nothing but access without any more points is a lot. It would make more sense if they gave you additional points.  The program probably only makes sense for elites.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 13, 2022)

@Mongoose That's an interesting observation about the Elite benefits. I am curious about the value proposition for non-elite DRI owners. It seems that DRI owners have a lot more to gain by joining MAX. Not only better resorts via HGVC and bHC but Honors conversion. Will they also be able to buy in for $7k? If so, that seems uneven between the two programs given they gain so much more.


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## MattnTricia (May 13, 2022)

One other interesting note

HGVC just sent out an email   "What Is Hilton Vacation Club? "

When you click on HGVMax the page is blank....lol 

I wonder if they are continuing the evolution of this program prior to official launch. 





__





						Hilton Grand Vacations - HGV Max - Key Features and Benefits
					

Hilton Grand Vacations is committed to the idea that life is incomplete without vacations. Our distinctive resort collection features luxurious accommodations in renowned destinations with the quality service that is synonymous with the Hilton name.




					club.hiltongrandvacations.com


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> One other interesting note
> 
> HGVC just sent out an email   "What Is Hilton Vacation Club? "
> 
> ...


It lists the full value of the program


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## HuskerATL (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> One other interesting note
> 
> HGVC just sent out an email   "What Is Hilton Vacation Club? "
> 
> ...



That is the state of the program right now...


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## Talent312 (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> Actually I am not so sure the $7000 is "ridiculous" depending on how the benefits end up shaking out to go from Elite Premier to HGVMax Centum+....



If they roll out the red carpet and it works for you, great.

But I do not see a value in paying 'x'K to book lesser resorts
-- no matter what other little perks they sprinkle on top).

IMHO. HGVC should pay _us_ to create a demand for them.

-------------------
BTW, I don't recall it being said here that elite has "no value,"
just that a new buyer should prolly not pay retail for it's value.
.
,
.


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## escanoe (May 13, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> From what I have read in filings Diamond has 400,000+ and Hilton has 220,000+



Everyone or almost everyone on the Hilton side is HGVC. But how many on the DRI side are in "the club" or one of the point trusts that will be most compatible with HGV Max ???


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

escanoe said:


> Everyone or almost everyone on the Hilton side is HGVC. But how many on the DRI side are in "the club" or one of the point trusts that will be most compatible with HGV max???


Good point.  I have no idea.  I image a lot are deed weeks owners.


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## SmithOp (May 13, 2022)

I may be a skeptic but I just don't see them grandfathering your Elite status over to Centum Max status for $7k, and as other have stated you will be booking lower rated resorts.

If you will:
HCNY/BHC 5 star
HGVC 4.5 star
HVC 4 star (rebranded DRI)
DRI Clubs/leftovers 3.5 star

HGMax is just an umbrella over these 4 the way I understand it.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I may be a skeptic but I just don't see them grandfathering your Elite status over to Centum Max status for $7k, and as other have stated you will be booking lower rated resorts.
> 
> If you will:
> HCNY/BHC 5 star
> ...


There are many DRI that are just barely 3 star and I'm not convinced all HVC will be 4 star.  Look at Bell Rock Inn for example.  The good news is, Hilton won't reflag them until they meet standards.  I wonder if there are some they will simply sell off.

I think HGVMax will be like Wyndham/Worldmark Travelshare.  A lot of owners hate it and feel its a waste of money because of lack of availability.


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## dayooper (May 13, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I may be a skeptic but I just don't see them grandfathering your Elite status over to Centum Max status for $7k, and as other have stated you will be booking lower rated resorts.
> 
> If you will:
> HCNY/BHC 5 star
> ...



I think the DRI leftover clubs will be outside of the Max umbrella. Some of the resorts aren't upgradable to HVC level (upscsale) and many of those are in places that just aren't financially viable for them to put money into (Orlando/Kissimmee). Those will probably remain with DRI, but not available to Max members.


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## GT75 (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> In a nutshell I think I would recoup ~$1000-$1500 a year in benefits assuming the perks above do not get added to my existing Elite Premier Legacy membership.


I think that you are "counting the chickens before they hatch".    I would suggest that you wait until the HGV Max program is actually released before you make a decision.    

First, we know that these HGV Max elite benefits are all benefits taken from the DRI side.    It certainly is possible that they will only apply to booking HGV resorts and not apply to HGVC.   

Secondly, this is only in draft form being leaked from the sales team.   I would wait until the final product is released.

These are just my thoughts.    I am very disappointed in how HGV has rolled out this program.   Honestly, HGV hasn't rolled out, they are just selling something called HGV Max with very little information on the program.


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Honestly, HGV hasn't rolled out, they are just selling something called HGV Max with very little information on the program.


Kinda like buying a car sight unseen and with no details on its specifications.  But with the car you would at least have some intrinsic value.  With this, you can't sell it and are out the $7K if you don't get value from it.


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## MattnTricia (May 13, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I think that you are "counting the chickens before they hatch".    I would suggest that you wait until the HGV Max program is actually released before you make a decision.
> 
> First, we know that these HGV Max elite benefits are all benefits taken from the DRI side.    It certainly is possible that they will only apply to booking HGV resorts and not apply to HGVC.
> 
> ...



I am with you on the prelaunch of the program and how information is being disseminated.  It is sad that it is being handled this way.

I also was clear I am not spending a dime on anything until the program is fully cemented. Totally crazy that anyone is buying anything at this point with the program being so up in the air.

The point of my post is just to note that there are some owners, me included, who don't agree with the masses that there is no value in HGVC Elite and   the idea of HGVMax is not ridiculous when I look at how it would enhance my ownership and what my cost would be to partake in it assuming the $7000 buyin is correct and the above mentioned details are all benefits I will not have moving forward as a Legacy Elite Premier owner.


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## PigsDad (May 13, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> I may be a skeptic but I just don't see them grandfathering your Elite status over to Centum Max status for $7k...


No grandfathering required.  If you have 100K points and you join Max, by definition you will have Centum Max status, since the Max status tiers are based on how many points you own.

Kurt


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> No grandfathering required.  If you have 100K points and you join Max, by definition you will have Centum Max status, since the Max status tiers are based on how many points you own.
> 
> Kurt


Just wondering what the average cost per point is for Hilton? I've only purchased resale.


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## HuskerATL (May 13, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> No grandfathering required.  If you have 100K points and you join Max, by definition you will have Centum Max status, since the Max status tiers are based on how many points you own.
> 
> Kurt


It will be interesting to see what points count in Max for Tiers.  Elite Eligible only or all....I know you need some sort of retail to get in but we will see how the total adds up.  I know in our sales update, the sales person commented that additional resale after joining will add to your total but not sure what that means. I guess we will find out when it actually happens.


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## PigsDad (May 13, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It will be interesting to see what points count in Max for Tiers.  Elite Eligible only or all....I know you need some sort of retail to get in but we will see how the total adds up.  I know in our sales update, the sales person commented that additional resale after joining will add to your total but not sure what that means. I guess we will find out when it actually happens.


Correct. I was assuming the 100K points were all "elite qualifying" points.  If some of them are not, then I wouldn't expect them to count toward the MAX tiers either.

Kurt


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## PigsDad (May 13, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> Just wondering what the average cost per point is for Hilton? I've only purchased resale.


I've only purchased resale as well, but I am Elite Premier due to purchasing Elite-qualifying resales in the past.  Those may not qualify for the Max tiers, but since I don't see me joining Max, it doesn't really matter to me.

Kurt


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## GT75 (May 13, 2022)

The other thing to consider is what you will be losing (or possibly losing) by joining HGV Max.


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## Smclaugh99 (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> Actually I am not so sure the $7000 is "ridiculous" depending on how the benefits end up shaking out to go from Elite Premier to HGVMax Centum +.
> I have been a loyal HGVC Elite Premier member for 15+ years now and have enjoyed Elite status for many years when most have said it provides no value.
> I also own a Vistana Week to access their point system and a Welk package to play within their system as well.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify. Elite Premier (old 34,000 retail points, new 54,000 retail points) crosswalks to Premier Plus in HGV Max, NOT Centum. Benefits are similar to Elite Premier but lose the 30% Open Season discount in favor of $700 credit toward OS - a downgrade, to me. Centum (>100,000 new retail points, corresponds to 62,500 old retail points) has those benefits you listed. I am Elite Premier and have 103,000 points - 67,000 of which are retail; the rest are resale deeds. I do not qualify for Centum. I have to think that the number of owners with >100,000 retail points are very limited. Because conservative estimate at $8 per point for 62,500 is $500,000. Or they purchased retail-qualifying affiliates.

I did make the switch to Max after swapping out gold deed W57 (that cost me $760 resale) for platinum version for roughly $12500 (factoring in bonus points cash value). So I will be Premier Plus and, sadly, no longer legacy Elite Premier. Reading the club rules pdf that is updated each year, the entire Elite system and all described benefits can be modified canceled or taken away at any time for no reason at all. HGVC as a company is all in on MAX and these new tiers seem to be the future. I wouldn’t be surprised to see legacy elite benefits change in time (not for the better).

Sean


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## GT75 (May 13, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> The point of my post is just to note that there are some owners, me included, who don't agree with the masses that there is no value in HGVC Elite


Well, to me the only benefits worthwhile on elite levels have been fee bookings, free save pts and free guest certificates at Elite Premier level.    I really haven't received any other benefits.   Now, to me these are good benefets, but it looks like they are only worth about $100/year.     Because all HGV Max will get most of these benefits for their increased club dues.   So, I don't know what benefits you are referring to.


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## GT75 (May 13, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Reading the club rules pdf that is updated each year, the entire Elite system and all described benefits can be modified canceled or taken away at any time for no reason at all.


This will also apply to HGV Max Elite benefits.


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

N


Smclaugh99 said:


> Just to clarify. Elite Premier (old 34,000 retail points, new 54,000 retail points) crosswalks to Premier Plus in HGV Max, NOT Centum. Benefits are similar to Elite Premier but lose the 30% Open Season discount in favor of $700 credit toward OS - a downgrade, to me. Centum (>100,000 new retail points, corresponds to 62,500 old retail points) has those benefits you listed. I am Elite Premier and have 103,000 points - 67,000 of which are retail; the rest are resale deeds. I do not qualify for Centum. I have to think that the number of owners with >100,000 retail points are very limited. Because conservative estimate at $8 per point for 62,500 is $500,000. Or they purchased retail-qualifying affiliates.
> 
> I did make the switch to Max after swapping out gold deed W57 (that cost me $760 resale) for platinum version for roughly $12500 (factoring in bonus points cash value). So I will be Premier Plus and, sadly, no longer legacy Elite Premier. Reading the club rules pdf that is updated each year, the entire Elite system and all described benefits can be modified canceled or taken away at any time for no reason at all. HGVC as a company is all in on MAX and these new tiers seem to be the future. I wouldn’t be surprised to see legacy elite benefits change in time (not for the better).
> 
> Sean


How many more points?


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## Mongoose (May 13, 2022)

GT75 said:


> This will also apply to HGV Max Elite benefits.


In what other business do you spend that kind of money on something that can be discounted or devalued at any time?


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## HuskerATL (May 13, 2022)

So, interestingly, someone on FB from the DRI side is logging into a Max portal so I guess they are but HGV folks aren't  yet.  This is her login screen.


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## Smclaugh99 (May 13, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> N
> 
> How many more points?


It was a 3750 Studio Plus Gold that I converted to 5250 Studio Plus Platinum. I still think in old points - will be a while before new point values are in my mental Rolodex. So there was no change in MF. I’ve posted in several threads how I have leveraged several resale BHC deeds that cost me a fraction but provided high dollar equity on my last couple of “upgrades.”  

Sean


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## MattnTricia (May 14, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Well, to me the only benefits worthwhile on elite levels have been fee bookings, free save pts and free guest certificates at Elite Premier level. I really haven't received any other benefits. Now, to me these are good benefets, but it looks like they are only worth about $100/year. Because all HGV Max will get most of these benefits for their increased club dues. So, I don't know what benefits you are referring to.



Elite Premier with 77k pre inflation points and  123k post inflation points.  $100 is no where close to the value that I saw in Elite Premier benefits last year. 

1)Hard to Value but well over $1000 in Value just in MF for 4 Unit Upgrades - Especially when 3 of 4 happened in Hawaii and involved Ocean View Upgrades
2)$250 Lyft Credit while on vacation
3)NO reservation Fees or Guest Certificate Fees - I didn't add it up but with 100k+ in points and several guest certificates a year it's hard to think this didn't value a minimum of $600-$700 LAST YEAR 
4)30% Open Season Discount - Varies every year but last year I would estimate it at $200 + / -
5)Several late 2PM checkouts -   Huge difference in quality of our travel with this benefit.  - Hard to monetize but I know early and late checkouts seem to be garnering $50-$100 fees recently at other properties I stay at for work.


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## GT75 (May 14, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> 3)NO reservation Fees or Guest Certificate Fees - I didn't add it up but with 100k+ in points and several guest certificates a year it's hard to think this didn't value a minimum of $600-$700 LAST YEAR


I think that you misunderstood my post (or actually I wasn't clear).   I do value the free reservations much more than $100 but now all HGV Max members will get that benefits (for increased club dues of $281-193 = $98).    So free saved pts and free reservations will no longer be an elite benefit.    This actually will reduce elite benefits significantly, IMO.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 14, 2022)

Thank you @MattnTricia.  Very interesting analysis. Usage does change and Elite has more value when you get more points e.g. more guest certificates for family. Enjoy your travels.


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## eleigh (May 14, 2022)

Mongoose said:


> Right, from what I can tell they can only be booked on Hilton.com.  I wonder if they are still bookable on the DRI member site?


I own a floating deeded resale week in Tahoe. I just booked through the the Diamond website this week.


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## frank808 (May 14, 2022)

For AI on reservation fees just paid to enroll a bHC deed and for around $120 more in club dues I don't pay any reservation fees also. That saves me $1K a year at least...and the cost was the closing and enrollment fee. Probably saved myself $6300 compared to signing up for max.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## trippka (May 15, 2022)

MattnTricia said:


> 7)Guaranteed late checkout with Centum which is not currently guaranteed with Elite Premier


Just FYI, the Centum "guaranteed" late checkout isn't generally available where I stay. There is some fine print "if available" or some such words. With limited cleaning staff and very full resorts, I haven't been able to get a late checkout in the DRI places I stay in the last couple of years.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 15, 2022)

trippka said:


> Just FYI, the Centum "guaranteed" late checkout isn't generally available where I stay. There is some fine print "if available" or some such words. With limited cleaning staff and very full resorts, I haven't been able to get a late checkout in the DRI places I stay in the last couple of years.



Sounds very similar to Bonvoy Elite late checkout benefit. Every time I have requested late checkout they have found a reason not to offer it. Empty benefit.


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## trippka (May 15, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Sounds very similar to Bonvoy Elite late checkout benefit. Every time I have requested late checkout they have found a reason not to offer it. Empty benefit.


Yes, my experience as well. In a remote Courtyard, or some such property, OK, it works. Otherwise, they are very quick with reasons. I am Marriott Titanium level.


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 15, 2022)

My last presentation was few weeks ago and they said they are eliminating option for 7k buy in (though not sure whether I believe them) and only option was for me to purchase 7,000 pts Kalia tower for $30k…. Walked. Overall they seem condescending and waste of time. If you do decide to go, however, let us know what you find out.


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## Mongoose (May 15, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> My last presentation was few weeks ago and they said they are eliminating option for 7k buy in (though not sure whether I believe them) and only option was for me to purchase 7,000 pts Kalia tower for $30k…. Walked. Overall they seem condescending and waste of time. If you do decide to go, however, let us know what you find out.


The CEO just stated that they will roll out the 7k later this year.  So, I would trust that over sales weasels.


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## dayooper (May 15, 2022)

johnnyrocket237 said:


> My last presentation was few weeks ago and they said they are eliminating option for 7k buy in (though not sure whether I believe them) and only option was for me to purchase 7,000 pts Kalia tower for $30k…. Walked. Overall they seem condescending and waste of time. If you do decide to go, however, let us know what you find out.



Salesman say a lot of things to get you to buy. Very rarely is it completely true. They have been saying for years that resale buyers won’t be able to use points or even trade in RCI. They have all given a minimum number to purchase to get into Max anywhere from $13000 to $45000, none of which is true.


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## Mongoose (May 15, 2022)

So what is happening with DeX?


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## Pennygodwin (May 19, 2022)

SmithOp said:


> @MattnTricia are you sure that they will allow HGVC Elite to go straight across to Max Centum for $7k? What if they require buying all new Max points?
> 
> I can get to Sedona using RCI or Interval, or cash on the hotel web sites. Sure, the sales people will try scare tactics that those deposits will dry up, I'll deal with that if it happens.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


I agree with your comment 100% and was thinking the exact same thing.  I just went to a presentation this week, and took a look at all of the Diamond properties and their locations.  I can say that I've seen most of them listed on RCI or Interval very inexpensively.  Several have shown up in my free interval accommodations certificates that are placed in my account.  I like the idea of not having the reservation and guest fees, and getting to book ahead of others I suppose, but beyond that, I cannot see why I'd spend $12,500 to "upgrade" from my current unit, to join the new program, of which there are no absolutes.  And, even if there were, the old program is functioning perfectly fine for me. I'll stick with booking my inexpensive getaways through interval or last call through RCI.  You can really get some steals if you are flexible, and I am.  And I think the statement by the salesperson to me of "you won't be able to find the inventory like you have in the past with these additional Diamond resorts".  Well, I'll believe that when I see that.  I've been lied to so many times at timeshare presentations, I only choose to believe about half of anything that they say.  Time shall tell all.


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## Pennygodwin (May 19, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Salesman say a lot of things to get you to buy. Very rarely is it completely true. They have been saying for years that resale buyers won’t be able to use points or even trade in RCI. They have all given a minimum number to purchase to get into Max anywhere from $13000 to $45000, none of which is true.


I've heard those lies as well at the presentations.  I was told it would be a minimum buy in after the program was fully launched.  I believe they said (choke) $40000.  And that they are making all of the maintenance fees equal (???). Just how they plan on doing that I'd like to know.  Not only that, in the new program they will only be selling trust points they told me.  And "now and right now only" you can also put your deeded property into the new program but after it launches you wont be.  What a crock of it!  So many lies.... I'm looking forward to seeing them all unfold one by one.


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## johnnyrocket237 (May 19, 2022)

Pennygodwin said:


> I've heard those lies as well at the presentations.  I was told it would be a minimum buy in after the program was fully launched.  I believe they said (choke) $40000.  And that they are making all of the maintenance fees equal (???). Just how they plan on doing that I'd like to know.  Not only that, in the new program they will only be selling trust points they told me.  And "now and right now only" you can also put your deeded property into the new program but after it launches you wont be.  What a crock of it!  So many lies.... I'm looking forward to seeing them all unfold one by one.



That's the other issue... sounds like Max / diamond will be a flat MF, but legacy deed owners have our legacy MFs,... but the new MFs will be much higher.  Right now I'm paying $0.07 -- $0.10 / point.  heard max might end up being $0.22... but when you look at their "benefits" for the loyalty program, some are allowing you to buy additional points for as high as $0.30 / point... way too expensive, and not exactly enticing me to join.  
benefit of legacy is that since we are deed owners, our HOAs determine our MFs, and they can't touch that. 

The reason the new MFs for Max will be so high, (speculating), is that they just spent 1.5 Billion on buying Diamond, so you're literally paying them back for their horrible investment. 

but yeah, on top of the lies, these sales people are arrogant and condescending.. I don't want to be called an "illegitimate member" because I didn't buy direct through them.  especially since we are deed owners.  we own real property.  and not only is the amount that I paid none of their business, but also that amount is more than they think the property is even worth, since they passed on their right of first refusal.  I'm like, if you're really selling these "all day every day", you're a real f*in moron to waive your ROFR.  But of course that is a lie as well.  

The other interesting play is they are trying to sell us crap inventory that no one wants to buy (even on resale market) for us to "get into Max."  that almost proves that this has no value... their game plan was to buy a 1.5 billion vacation club just to trick people to buy up their unsold inventory that's been sitting around that nobody wants? sounds like a horrible business plan.  

also the decision that the 7k buy-in isn't available to resale buyers is equally absurd.  it's certainly not rational.  if it's rational / profitable for them to sell a "max membership" to one HGVC member, it doesn't make sense that they can't sell it to another, just because I didn't buy my property direct through them..   Ahh... unless the reward tiers / max privileges are solely linked to "properties bought directly from us." then that might explain it some... 

But the other point: what is the offer they are making to DRI members to get into Max from the Diamond side (i.e., having available the core HGVC resorts)?  none of the DRI members "bought directly from Hilton."  So are they required to make an additional purchase to get into this program as well?  Or can they all just do a 7k buy in?

really crazy that they spent 1.5B without having a clear business plan on how to monetize / deploy this.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 19, 2022)

@johnnyrocket237 Welcome to the timeshare business circa 2022. Recycling acquired timeshares (rather than building new resorts) and dumping crap weeks into high MF trusts to sell as points is the new business model.  This is MVCs model (Marriott, Westin, Sheraton, Hyatt) and AFAIK Wyndham's model as well.

At least Hilton is still selling deeds and honoring resales. MVC has stopped selling deeds and only sells trust points. Unhappy? take a look at HGVC competitors and how well they treat resale buyers. You might realize that HGVC is not so bad.


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## Nowaker (May 19, 2022)

Pennygodwin said:


> I only choose to believe about half of anything that they say.


Half? You're very easy on them...




johnnyrocket237 said:


> and not only is the amount that I paid none of their business



It is their business because of ROFR. You're required to disclose it when selling your property.  

Note: It's not the resort that is condescending to you. Resort employees are paid by your HOA from your MFs. It's the salespeople (that includes people disguised as "concierge") employed by HGVCorp (not your HOA) that may be condescending. If you don't like them, don't talk to them. Don't engage with them, hang up right away (don't even talk), block their numbers, disconnect your hotel phone, and don't attend any presentations. Then enjoy your vacation. There's too many complaints from people who engage with salespeople out of their free will. It's like answering questions from the police. You don't have to. It's your choice.


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## Talent312 (May 21, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> ... Salespeople... disguised as "concierge") employed by HGV Corp (not your HOA)...



Sometimes, you can't avoid contact with a sales-weasel. It's almost funny how, when checking-in, you're sent to the "concierge" to sign your parking pass, and they offer you a presentation/update. At my last check-in, after asking me what I owned and knowing that their product was inferior, he gave up quickly. "Well, I can offer you... but you're probably not interested."
.


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## Tamaradarann (May 21, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Half? You're very easy on them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You make a good point about sales people disguised as "concierge" who are paid by HGVCorp not the HOA.  I am not sure that is how all HGVC locations operate but that is how the ones in Honolulu do.  The concierge job is to make activity reservations which is selling an activity.  Selling activities and selling timeshare presentations.  Well timeshare presentations are an activity aren't they?


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## SmithOp (May 21, 2022)

I just returned from Waikoloa. First week was RCI reservation at Bay Club, checked in at Kohala front desk. Sent to concierge for a parking pass, she handed it over without a word about a sales update. Second week we moved to Kingsland club points booking. I pulled up into the driveway and the valet brought me a parking pass, wrote the rental car license plate on it, no dates. Checked in with no mention of an update, I even spoke to the concierge desk about the golf rates.



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