# Buying into Wyndham/Worldmark



## joshua71 (Aug 26, 2017)

We recently sat through a Wyndham/Worldmark presentation ... did not buy.  We are interested in purchasing into the system via resale.  We have several questions.  Any help will be appreciated.

Our goals are flexibility, sharing with family, convenience and keeping costs under control.

How important is the home resort?
If purchasing via resale is the Club Pass available/
Is it necessary to purchase anything from the developer?  If so, purchase the minimum available?
Do things like the "Blue Thread", "Club Pass", "Reward Points" really have a significant meaning?
Are there other developers that we should consider?
Is this really a dumb idea?


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## rhonda (Aug 26, 2017)

Howdy, joshua71.  Welcome!

I will refrain from voting in your poll ... as my answer falls near, "It depends."  Right?

We first purchased Worldmark in 2000 direct from the developer.  After a few trips to confirm our new toy, we purchased resale in 2001 and moved all our points under the resale account.  Best.thing.ever (for us).  To your questions:

1.  WM does not have a 'home resort.'  Nope, nada.  If your impression of a 'home resort' comes from reading eBay ads, that is simply because eBay's timeshare sales template forces a home resort designation.  Again:  Worldmark does not have a 'home resort' in its membership model.

2. Yes but No.  All WM members, regardless of purchase source, have Club Pass.  HOWEVER (note the all caps -- this is a big 'however'): only Developer Credits (aka 'points') may be used used to book Club Pass.  Yes, you are a member.  No, none of your resale points can be used through Club Pass.  Make sense? 

3.  Nope, not necessary. 

4.  ??? I'll have to pass on this question.  Of the three programs you mention, I've not yet heard of 'Blue Thread' or 'Reward Points' and we just sat through a member's update in July?  Hmmm ... sounds like more baloney to me. 

5. Yes, of course.  Now is your time to consider any/all developers, programs, options.  Always best to research and consider before 'marrying' any one product, right?  But we can't help narrow your search pattern without knowing a bit more of your goals.  On the 'Newbies' forum there is a survey to help you target your wish list.

6.  No way!  Most of us here *love* our timeshares and our decisions to buy them.  Personally, we've stayed at more than 50 Worldmark locations, traded via both RCI and II into other even more locations and are having a blast.  Love this stuff!  

Good luck on your research!


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## taterhed (Aug 26, 2017)

Welcome.  Not dumb question, not a dumb idea.

I own two WM accounts.  I love them.  I only wish I could use them more.
Resale Worldmark is a very good value and has almost all the privileges of the developer points.  There is no reason (for me) to consider buying from the developer.  You do NOT need to buy anything but a resale contract  to use and enjoy you points.

Some of the 'so called' developer benefits are expensive (extra MF's) and not that useful. I'm not sure what you are specifically chasing, but you can view the Worldmark resort guide and the colors will show which resorts would be available to you.

I reviewed the Wyndham system, but decided that WM was a much better fit for me.

The Home resort does not exist for WM.
There are many resorts available around the world for WM owners; some are co-located with Wynd. and some are in the pacific etc...  Club pass doesn't add that much (or whatever its called for WM) but you can't get it anyway.
Start your own 'what to buy' thread and you might get some better support.

I see you're west of the Mississippi, that's a great start for WM; most resorts are in the western half.

Sorry Rhonda for repeating;  you beat me to it!


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## rhonda (Aug 26, 2017)

Link to the survey:  "What to Buy? Questions for Newbies"

Treat it as a survey to help focus your wish-list.


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## breezez (Aug 26, 2017)

Great questions,

These are my opinion, so others may not agree, WM is a great system with locations all over with a strong emphasis in western US.    Your credits last 2 years, but technically 3 years as you can make reservations 1 year out on points about to expire.   You can trade into II or RCI, both of theses exchange companies have last minute exchange deals that allow you to exchange for 1 week for only 4000 credits in any of the resorts with available inventory.   

WM has things such as bonus time and inventory specials that allow you to stay more for cash outside of your points.   You can also rent from another owner up to 2 times your allotment of credits.   This allows you to start small and just rent additional credits when needed.   If you find later you need more credits you can buy another account and combine with an existing account.

I have 3 accounts and love them.

Wyndham is sort of a mess right now for some people, luckily my Wyndham accounts have not had many of the issues people are upset about on here.   Wyndham resorts are pretty nice, and they have good penetration in the Eastern US.  MF for Wyndham are generally higher than WM, and you have a lot less flexibility.   You either use or lose your points,  you have 3 months at beginning of use year to move your points to another year on a standard account, but once you have moved them you can't undo, if you have points that will expire you can move to RCI for 1 reservation transaction.   RCI uses a fixed exchange grid for Wyndham, there is no exchange discount if booked close to intended stay like their is in WM.   Wyndham, has no limit to how much they can raise MF's, WM is limited to 5% a year.

When I got involved in TS 3 years ago I started with WM, not sure which I would like better...  I bought some Wyndham too.   Both have advantages.   

Recently I purchased a RCI Points contract as well.

I live on east coast, and even though this is Wyndham's heaviest concentration if I had it to do all over again I would just have stayed with WorldMark, then got me the RCI Points contract to increase places to stay on east coast.   I have gotten good use out of my Wyndham, contracts, but feel my WorldMark and RCI Points are a better MF/Vacation Value.  The rub to a standard account holder is you can normally rent from a Wyndham VIP a better reservation unit for less than it would cost in MF's for a non VIP.

I won't completely dump Wyndham but will probably cut my holding about 50% over next year.

Blue Thread, is just another sales gimmick, club pass you won't get with resell but after the $99 internal exchange fee it's not that great of a value.   WM gives you free spices and you pay for internet, Wyndham doesn't give you spices, but gives you free internet generally.


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## dagger1 (Aug 26, 2017)

Welcome, we were intrigued (like you) a year ago, and by mid October 2016 had purchased 4 Wyndham CWA contracts on eBay.  Took until mid January 2017 to have them all transferred into our Wyndham"member" number.  By mid March we had reservations for 1-3 BR units at Myrtle Beach, New Orleans, San Antonio (La Cascada and Riverside Suites), Washington DC (National Harbor and Old Town Alexandria), Flagstaff, Sedona, Durango, Taos, and Orlando (2x3 BRs and 2 x 2BRs).  We have used all our points for 2017, haven't started planning 2018 yet (but will soon).
You mentioned other developers.  We decided mid Spring that there were several locations we would go every year at the same time:  San Antonio (June) and Colorado (Skiing and July).  So we bought 2 x 2 BR's in June at the Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, a much larger/nicer family resort than the 2 Wyndham's (downtown on the river); and a ski week/floating 10 day summer/fall) 3/3 at Hyatt Main Street Station in Breckenridge, Colorado.  Both Hyatt's are deeded fixed week/fixed units, but have points associated if someone wanted to trade.  We bought to use every year for the foreseeable future.  And we are in escrow for a Marriott Ko'Olina 2/2 OV EOYO floating week (deeded but not fixed week/unit) for our occasional trip to Hawaii.  The MKO is much nicer and more of a resort than the Wyndham Honolulu condos, but we will use them for 2-3 nights when we arrive.  But for high end resorts in Hawaii, you have to go to Marriott, Hilton, Westin (Vistana), or Hyatt.  We are now looking for an EOYO 2/2 Marriott Maui Ocean Club so we can get a 14-20 day stay every other year in one of our favorite places, Hawaii.
Wyndham (Worldmrk) points offer many fabulous locations, and great flexibility, (with a large dash of "maybe"), but we added the Hyatt's and Marriott because of the higher quality "resort" experience we want occasionally.  And because, re:  the Hyatt's, both driveable and where we will be every mid June and fixed Colorado dates.  Our family can always plan ahead so we can all be together.
Finally, as TUG (and these great Tuggers) taught me a year ago (thank the Lord I found them in time), take your time and buy resale.   I have been educated and tutored by Wyndham, Hyatt, and Marriott experts, and have been expertly guided into our foray into TS's.  It's great that you have joined TUG and are supporting this great community.


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## geist1223 (Aug 26, 2017)

Most people will say never buy from the Developer. Resell is about 10 cents to the dollar from the Developer. What do you gain with Developer purchase - access to Worldmark South Pacific (Australia and New Zealand), access to Wyndham Pass, RCI Account, and free WIFI (# of devices depends on # of Developer Points). These things are not free. You have to buy from the Developer and there are Travelshare Dues on top of regular Maintenance Fees.

There are 4 levels of Developer Credits - Travelshare, Silver Elite, Diamond Elite, and Platinum Elite. Each level has different Benefits. Travelshare gets "free" WIFI Access for 2 devices and Platinum gets "free" WIFI Access for 8 Devices.

Resell is a lot cheaper. There are 80 to 90 Worldmark Resorts that you will have access. They are in British Columbia Canada, Fiji, Hawaii, Mexico, and in the lower 48 but primarily West of the Mississippi. You can pay for II and/or RCI Membership. You can pay as you go for WIFI Access.

Worldmark Points are good for making Reservations for 25 months. By this I mean assuming your Anniversary Date is August 1. So you get your Currents Points on August 1, 2017. These are good for making Reservations until August 31, 2019. Remember you can Book 13 months in Advance. So on August 31, 2019 You can use (if still available) your August 1, 2017 Points for a Reservation in September 2020. You can also borrow from the next year. So on August 1, 2017 you get your Current Points and your 2018 Points show as available to Borrow. So assume prior to August 1, 2018 you have planned a lot of travel and used all your August 1, 2017 Points. But you have decided you want to go to Victoria BC for part of June 2019. No problem you can Book it and the Points and Housekeeping Credits will be borrowed from your August 1, 2018 allotment. This does mean when August 1, 2018 rolls around you will not get your full Allotment because you borrowed from it. So you can save for 2 years and borrow 1 year in advance so if you plan it right you can use 3 years of Points for one big year of travel.

Everyone has access to Bonus Time, Monday Madness, and Inventory Specials.

If you purchase the minimum from the Developer only that number of Points has access to Worldmark South Pacific, Wyndham Pass, etc. You can not do much in Wyndham Pass or Worldmark South Pacific with 6,000 Points. You can not Piggyback your resell Points onto Developer Points.

The bigger question is whether or not Worldmark is for you. Can you plan 13+ months in Advance? Can you be up and Online before 6am Pacific Time to try and reserve a high demand Resort during prime travel time? Can you travel during the shoulder seasons? Are you willing to spend the time to learn how to use the system - Saved Searches, Wait List, etc to your benefit. Are you flexible as to your travel arrangements. Many people buy Worldmark and then expect to get Yellowstone or Hawaii with only 6 months planning - probably not going to happen. Though using the Wait List I got a 3 Bedroom at Kihei for a week with only 8 weeks planning. But it was for October. It takes time and effort to learn how to use Worldmark to your benefit.

We love our Worldmark.


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## rhonda (Aug 26, 2017)

@joshua71, there seems to be some confusion reflected in the replies as to which product presentations you sat through.  Did you sit through just one for Worldmark by Wyndham, as I assumed in my earlier reply ... or did you sit through separate presentations for Worldmark and Wyndham as separate products?  

As you might guess, Wyndham's timeshare offerings are many ... each with different rules and characteristics.  Our answers to your questions will be different based on which product you were considering.


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## uscav8r (Aug 26, 2017)

joshua71 said:


> We recently sat through a Wyndham/Worldmark presentation ... did not buy.  We are interested in purchasing into the system via resale.  We have several questions.  Any help will be appreciated.
> 
> Our goals are flexibility, sharing with family, convenience and keeping costs under control.
> 
> ...



You've gotten feedback on most of the questions, but will provide some feedback for #4.

Not sure what Blue Thread is. 

Club Pass is an internal exchange system between WorldMark and Club Wyndham. It is not worth the extra cost of developer credits to use. You'd be better off renting from an owner in the system you end up not buying. OR you can buy resale in both like I did. 

Reward points refers to the Wyndham-branded credit card. You get points for purchases and can use these towards maintenance fees or hotel stays (amongst other things). The payback rate is so poor, you might as well skip it and get better payback from other credit cards. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joshua71 (Aug 28, 2017)

rhonda said:


> @joshua71, there seems to be some confusion reflected in the replies as to which product presentations you sat through.  Did you sit through just one for Worldmark by Wyndham, as I assumed in my earlier reply ... or did you sit through separate presentations for Worldmark and Wyndham as separate products?
> 
> As you might guess, Wyndham's timeshare offerings are many ... each with different rules and characteristics.  Our answers to your questions will be different based on which product you were considering.



Rhonda,  Thank you for your responses ... these are very helpful.
We attended a Wyndham/Worldmark owner presentation (even though we are not owners).  This was followed up by a representative who primarily advocated Worldmark (what was his background).
Our interest has been primarily on Wyndham in that our impression has been that these facilities seem to be better maintained and of higher quality than Worldmark.  We suspect that this varies from location to location.  It is interesting to note that most of the responses to our questions have addressed Worldmark.  This leads us to feel that it is likely that the Worldmark brand is very strong and that our first impressions may not be correct.

Does it really matter which brand we focus on?  It seems that the two brands are closely linked and are somewhat interchangeable.

We are going spend more time focusing on our real travel objectives.  We believe this will help us focus our efforts more effectively.  Again, thank you for your help.


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## ronparise (Aug 28, 2017)

Club Wyndham and Worldmark are two different systems that have the same manager and developer

The confusion comes from the Club Pass exchange program whereby a Wyndham owner can reserve Worldmark with their points and a worldmark owner can reserve a club Wyndham unit with their credits. Also contributing to the confusion is that some resorts are shared. Some units belong to club Wyndham and others are Worldmark

But make no mistake they are different

Wyndham is stronger in the east; Worldmark in the west

Wyndham is cheaper to buy, but more expensive to own

My advice is to look closely at the resorts and choose based on which one offers the best list for your needs


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## K2Quick (Aug 28, 2017)

joshua71 said:


> Does it really matter which brand we focus on?  It seems that the two brands are closely linked and are somewhat interchangeable.


If you're buying resale (and generally only the horribly misinformed/misled buy from the developer), it absolutely matters which brand you focus on.  Wyndham will generally have slightly more upscale accommodations than Worldmark and has a large presence on the East Coast.  Worldmark has slightly more basic accommodations than Wyndham and is heavily represented on the West Coast.  Unless you buy from the developer, crossover between the two brands is pretty much nonexistent and even if you do have access to the developer perks, you're still not going to get very good access to the crossover inventory.

I think you need to focus on:
1. Where do you want to travel primarily?
2. Is the quality of the units a primary or secondary consideration?

When I first got started in timesharing, I was focused more on being able to book high end accommodations (Westins/Marriotts) and that led me to buy a Sheraton unit that we used exclusively as a trader and it worked great.  At the time, we only had one toddler.  I later bought Worldmark (and got rid of the Sheraton) and now that we're more tied to the school calendar and can focus less on exchanging, we tend to use the Worldmark system more than we exchange through II and RCI.


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## sue1947 (Aug 28, 2017)

joshua71 said:


> Does it really matter which brand we focus on?  It seems that the two brands are closely linked and are somewhat interchangeable.
> 
> We are going spend more time focusing on our real travel objectives.  We believe this will help us focus our efforts more effectively.  Again, thank you for your help.



No, WM and Wyndham are not interchangeable.  They are separate systems with separate resorts.  WM is stronger in the west and Wyndham more in the east.   Look at the resorts in each system and pursue the system that has the resorts you want.   Club Pass is only for those who buy from the developer at ten times the cost.  In addition, they can't be booked until the owners in that system have several months to book so you can only book the leftovers plus the cost to book is inflated making it all way too costly.  
Wyndham manages and develops for WM and have taken over the Board of Directors and have made good progress towards devaluing WM.  I personally would not advise anybody to buy into anything managed or owned by Wyndham.   Their incompetence in managing as shown by the debacle of the new reservation system on the Wyndham side is also mirrored in WM where I haven't been able to make an online reservation since last January.   I like the resorts of WM and the flexibility, but my patience with the indifference that Wyndham shows towards owners is about at an end.  
My recommendation is to look at other systems and focus on those that are independently owned or at least have a better reputation for customer service.  The resorts in the vri network offer indepence/owner focused as well as an internal network.   If you want higher quality and resort activities, then look at Marriot, Hilton or Vistana.  Stay away from Westgate.   I'd also put Diamond in the avoid category, based on their over the top sales pressure.  

Sue


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## rhonda (Aug 28, 2017)

joshua71 said:


> It is interesting to note that most of the responses to our questions have addressed Worldmark.  This leads us to feel that it is likely that the *Worldmark brand is very strong* and that our first impressions may not be correct.


Noting Sue's concerns in post #13, above, we've hit a couple bumps recently leading me to have a poor view of the very word 'Wyndham' ... but we still _love_ our Worldmark.  


joshua71 said:


> Does it really matter which brand we focus on?  It seems that the two brands are closely linked and are somewhat interchangeable.


Yes.  While some locations have both Wyndham units and Worldmark units, the rules for booking the units are very different between the two systems.  Things I especially appreciate from the Worldmark point of view:

A WM reservation can start on _any_ day of the week! (Wyndham reservations favor select arrival days.)
A WM reservation more easily accommodates my desired length of stay.  Yes, WM requires min 7 night reservation for Red (High) Season reservations beyond 10 months but even this reservation can be broken across multiple locations.  More importantly, I can book my preferred short-stay reservations up to 13 months out for White (Mid) and Blue (Low) season and 10 months out for Red (High) season.  Likewise, WM easily supports reservations that run longer than 7 days.  
Wyndham has trouble attempting to book a particular stay I consume every Sept at Pagosa, CO:  arrive on Thursday; check-out on Monday.  It has to be broken into two reservations, booked much closer to arrival date, etc.  Hassle!
WM's credits (points) may be seamlessly borrowed 1 year ahead and automatically run 2 years from issue.  WM has no actions required to "bank/borrow."  
WM's cancellation practices are flexible.  WM quickly issues refund of credits (points) and/or cash if the cancellation is requested prior to the deadline stated on each reservation.  If you cancel after the cut-off, you may still qualify for either partial or full refund _to the extent that the reservation was consumed by other members_.  Pretty cool.
WM does not have a "transaction fee" for contacting Member Services.



joshua71 said:


> We are going spend more time focusing on our real travel objectives.  We believe this will help us focus our efforts more effectively.


Excellent approach!  Of course, travel objectives may change over time. ;-)  

I think our initial 'travel objective' when purchasing in 2000 was to guarantee that we'd take vacations.  We liked the pressure/threat of "_use_ it or _lose_ it." At that point in our busy career lives, we needed that extra nudge to _take vacation_.  So in choosing WM, we were attracted the idea of multiple locations, choice of unit size, and a defined level of "quality."  We figured by buying into a specific timeshare club, we could cut out the hours of research on any given destination spent researching the relative safety and quality of that property as that part of the work was already done for us.  It made trip planning easier:  just book, pack, go.  Yeah -- that is pretty much how it played out for us.  

What has changed for us:  We started traveling as a 'couple' and now favor traveling with larger groups of family and friends.  When we book a 2BR or 3BR unit, we are likely to invite someone.  Looking back, most of our timeshare travels are shared with others and we love it.

We're quite happy and hope you will be, too!


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## joshua71 (Sep 6, 2017)

It sounds like Worldmark may be a better option than Wyndham.  Is this correct?

Some more questions:

If an owner in Worldmark (or Wyndham) is it possible to reserve for the other?
If purchasing Worldmark does it matter where to resort is located as far as exchanges?
What considerations are there when purchasing resale?
I've seen points available to sale ... is it necessary to be an owner before purchasing points?


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## sue1947 (Sep 6, 2017)

joshua71 said:


> It sounds like Worldmark may be a better option than Wyndham.  Is this correct?
> 
> Some more questions:
> 
> ...



1.  Resale buyers can't book in the other system.  Even if you buy developer, reserving in the other system, it's the leftovers and overpriced.  Buy WM to book WM, buy Wyndham if you want Wyndham.
2.  No.  Exchanges cost you points and the club determines which week it deposits in exchange for those points.  If you do a request first, you won't see the resort behind the weeks at all.  If deposit first, you can get a bargain, but you can also get a stinker of a trader.
3.  none.  
4.  yes.  Transferring one time use points between owners requires 2 owners.  This is referred to as renting.  Transferring credits permanently is selling.  

The point that Wyndham and WM are not interchangeable has been made multiple times in earlier posts.  You seem to be stuck on not believing that; I suspect you bought into the sales pitch a little too much.  Wyndham has a terrible reputation for lies in their sales presentations so pretty much erase everything you were told and start your thinking over with a clean slate.   Answer the questions in the post in the newbie section and think about where you want to book and what quality of resorts; do you want activities and a resort feel or a place to stay?  do you care about granite countertops etc.  You might find that another system works better for you than either WM or Wyndham.  The bottom line is really who has the resorts you want.   
 WM is a great trader, for now.  Things can change and the easy trades of the past are more difficult to get and I expect that to continue in the future.  Wyndham, as the manager for WM, is taking as much money out of WM owners as possible and devaluing the product.  If the resorts are what you want, then it's still a good purchase.  Otherwise, look elsewhere.  
Sue


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