# New to wyndham point system... help?



## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

Ok so I decided to do a trial 400k points for 3700.00 last week. I can use the points and be done or take the 3700 value and apply it towards a full purchase. I've read where you can buy a basic package for benefits and then stack points from outside places like eBay. My job gives me freedom to take last min vacations so I can really take advantage of the last min discounts. Plus I'm able to take up to 8 weeks vacation a year on my terms. Is wyndham the best overall timeshare program or should I choose another like blue green or disney? I would like to learn as much as I can so any links to research material would be appreciated.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 21, 2018)

Rescind if you still can.

For $3700, you can buy and own with NO mortgage or financing costs about 400,000 Wyndham points. A low yearly MF resort will cost you less points or more cash to buy.

If you are still uncertain it you will like the resorts or vacationing styles .. NO PROBLEM, give away the deed for FREE. Yes, you will be OUT $3700 dollars, but you were going to SPEND that much money to TRY out Wyndham and their resorts.


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## ecwinch (Feb 21, 2018)

Don’t hesitate .... rescind. Then do the research.


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> Rescind if you still can.
> 
> For $3700, you can buy and own with NO mortgage or financing costs about 400,000 Wyndham points. A low yearly MF resort will cost you less points or more cash to buy.
> 
> If you are still uncertain it you will like the resorts or vacationing styles .. NO PROBLEM, give away the deed for FREE. Yes, you will be OUT $3700 dollars, but you were going to SPEND that much money to TRY out Wyndham and their resorts.


Sorry it was 400k points. My understanding is. I'll need to become a member to get VIP status then I can stack points


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Don’t hesitate .... rescind. Then do the research.


Thanks


Bomoto said:


> Ok so I decided to do a trial 400k points for 3700.00 last week. I can use the points and be done or take the 3700 value and apply it towards a full purchase. I've read where you can buy a basic package for benefits and then stack points from outside places like eBay. My job gives me freedom to take last min vacations so I can really take advantage of the last min discounts. Plus I'm able to take up to 8 weeks vacation a year on my terms. Is wyndham the best overall timeshare program or should I choose another like blue green or disney? I would like to learn as much as I can so any links to research material would be appreciated.



I should be more clear on my position. My rescind date ends tommorro so to late to back out. Since my trial discovery 400k points is equal to the cost to rent where I want to go in not to concerned about the value at this time. My future decisions need to be either walk away after I use the points or use the 3700 value towards a deed for VIP status if it's worth it. I know that 200k cwp points is 29k minus my 3700 equals 25300. Is the VIP status worth the investment for the benefits or should I just buy a resale.


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## ecwinch (Feb 21, 2018)

Yes, but those additional points won’t count toward VIP status. So to get a meaningful discount, you will potentially invest more ($80-100k give or take) than you might recoup. There used be some loopholes to lower that buy-in costs, Wyndham has closed most of them. Plus they have eviscerated the cancel-rebook strategy, making it harder to justify the ROI.

Don’t get me wrong - we stay at Wyndham resorts 60+ nights a year - and it is a great deal for us. But not as good as it was a year ago.


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## ecwinch (Feb 21, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> I should be more clear on my position. My rescind date ends tommorro so to late to back out. Since my trial discovery 400k points is equal to the cost to rent where I want to go in not to concerned about the value at this time. My future decisions need to be either walk away after I use the points or use the 3700 value towards a deed for VIP status if it's worth it. I know that 200k cwp points is 29k minus my 3700 equals 25300. Is the VIP status worth the investment for the benefits or should I just buy a resale.



No it is not too late. A certified letter post-marked by midnight tomorrow is all that is required. Even a fax might do it.

Rescinding buys you time. If you research it, and find Discovery is the right path, then that deal will still be there.


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Yes, but those additional points won’t count toward VIP status. So to get a meaningful discount, you will potentially invest more ($80-100k give or take) than you might recoup. There used be some loopholes to lower that buy-in costs, Wyndham has closed most of them. Plus they have eviscerated the cancel-rebook strategy, making it harder to justify the ROI.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong - we stay at Wyndham resorts 60+ nights a year - and it is a great deal for us. But not as good as it was a year ago.



What is your opinion on the VIP status. I'm ok with the initial costs if the VIP status is worth it long term. Also since everything is point based now vs deed. How does that change the monthly fees. I'm considering buying 300k points for basic VIP and then another 200k to 700k points on resale.


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## kaljor (Feb 21, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Is the VIP status worth the investment for the benefits or should I just buy a resale.



The points needed for the lowest VIP level are 400,000, purchased direct from Wyndham.  At the last sales meeting I attended back in December, I was quoted a bit over $100,000 for that.  I saw this same number mentioned in another thread here earlier this week.

At that level a 25% discount would apply for reservations within 60 days, but as you might expect, desirable resorts in busy weeks are not likely to have great availability in that time frame. Or any availability.  Another benefit is a unit upgrade within 30 days if available.  Again, availability is not likely.  The other benefits are pretty meager in my opinion and I don't see how they could ever be worth that price.

Not that I wouldn't like to have those benefits, but as someone just coming into the system now, I feel I get a far better bang for my buck by purchasing all resale points and using them as they are intended. At current resale prices, it's a very good deal.


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

kaljor said:


> The points needed for the lowest VIP level are 400,000, purchased direct from Wyndham.  At the last sales meeting I attended back in December, I was quoted a bit over $100,000 for that.  I saw this same number mentioned in another thread here earlier this week.
> 
> At that level a 25% discount would apply for reservations within 60 days, but as you might expect, desirable resorts in busy weeks are not likely to have great availability in that time frame. Or any availability.  Another benefit is a unit upgrade within 30 days if available.  Again, availability is not likely.  The other benefits are pretty meager in my opinion and I don't see how they could ever be worth that price.
> 
> Not that I wouldn't like to have those benefits, but as someone just coming into the system now, I feel I get a far better bang for my buck by purchasing all resale points and using them as they are intended. At current resale prices, it's a very good deal.



I saw 300k was the basic VIP. They quoted me 17k for 105k points and 29k for 200k points. I was figuring about 40k for 300k points


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## ecwinch (Feb 21, 2018)

I don’t see the value given the investment and current rules. The payback is too long, and the rules can be changed in the future to diminish the value even more.

And 300k is the grandfathered amount, not available for new members. Which only gets you a 25% pts discount. Kaljor makes the rest of the points I would make.


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## Braindead (Feb 21, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> I saw 300k was the basic VIP. They quoted me 17k for 105k points and 29k for 200k points. I was figuring about 40k for 300k points


If your bound and determined to be VIP you need to learn about PIC weeks. Get two 3 bedrooms worth 508k points and enroll them into the program when you buy 300k CWA points for $45,000.00 . You will be Gold VIP for under $50k with 808,000 points


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## CCdad (Feb 21, 2018)

Braindead said:


> If your bound and determined to be VIP you need to learn about PIC weeks. Get two 3 bedrooms worth 508k points and enroll them into the program when you buy 300k CWA points for $45,000.00 . You will be Gold VIP for under $50k with 808,000 points



If the 200k developer purchase is locked in at $29k (before the $3,700 offset for the Discovery package) and the OP can enroll 2 three bedroom RCI fixed weeks into the  PIC program as part of the purchase, that's Gold for only $29k plus the purchase cost of the PIC weeks.  All in all, a very good deal.


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## kaljor (Feb 21, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> They quoted me 17k for 105k points and 29k for 200k points. I was figuring about 40k for 300k points



What they quoted you and what they would actually charge you are two different things.  I would be very surprised if you could get 300,000 points for less than $65,000.  By comparison, I paid $1874.00 all in for 316,000 resale points.  Of course I won't ever get VIP benefits, but I saved about $63,000.


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## Braindead (Feb 21, 2018)

CCdad said:


> If the 200k developer purchase is locked in at $29k (before the $3,700 offset for the Discovery package) and the OP can enroll 2 three bedroom RCI fixed weeks into the  PIC program as part of the purchase, that's Gold for only $29k plus the purchase cost of the PIC weeks.  All in all, a very good deal.


Your right! I did go braindead for a minute thinking Gold was 800k points.
I’m guessing it’s 200k points for $29,000.00 plus the $3,700.00
They say you have to buy 105k points for each PIC week enrolled 
Buy 210k CWA for $32,000.00. I bought my PIC weeks for $1,000.00 each
VIP Gold for about $35,000.00


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## Braindead (Feb 21, 2018)

kaljor said:


> What they quoted you and what they would actually charge you are two different things.  I would be very surprised if you could get 300,000 points for less than $65,000.  By comparison, I paid $1874.00 all in for 316,000 resale points.  Of course I won't ever get VIP benefits, but I saved about $63,000.


You can buy 300k CWA points everyday for $45,000.00
If you don’t believe me don’t offer Wyndham a check for it unless you want to buy


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## kaljor (Feb 21, 2018)

Yes I just spent some time reading back posts over the last several months and I see that now.


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

Ok,, let's say I want VIP gold. Which seems like the best tier fo r my needs till I retire. What's the best path. I see you guys are talking about pic program and another just buying the points outright with haggling. Which is better? Which is better upfront cost and maintenance fee?


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

kaljor said:


> What they quoted you and what they would actually charge you are two different things.  I would be very surprised if you could get 300,000 points for less than $65,000.  By comparison, I paid $1874.00 all in for 316,000 resale points.  Of course I won't ever get VIP benefits, but I saved about $63,000.


I hear ya but I can see the benefits of being a VIP member and having a little more flexibility in my choices. I don't mind spending a little extra for more choice and not being told no


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## Bomoto (Feb 21, 2018)

Braindead said:


> You can buy 300k CWA points everyday for $45,000.00
> If you don’t believe me don’t offer Wyndham a check for it unless you want to buy


Is VIP gold 300 or 400k point or more. I see all different posts. I'd like to keep my initial investment to under 40k for VIP gold. Is that reasonable?


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## kaljor (Feb 21, 2018)

VIP Silver = 400,000
VIP Gold  =  700,000
VIP Platinum  =  1,000,000

I took this straight from the Wyndham directory


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## ecwinch (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Is VIP gold 300 or 400k point or more. I see all different posts. I'd like to keep my initial investment to under 40k for VIP gold. Is that reasonable?



It is reasonable, with some caveats.

Braindead’s post is the path you want to take to VIP Gold. Find and buy two fixed weeks at an RCI resort. You want them to be 3BR units as to maximize the points you will be credited toward VIP status. And then - after you have had those weeks transferred to your name - approach Wyndham and purchase developer points and as part of that sale require they enroll those weeks in the PIC Plus (not PIC Express). You can play with numbers a little to get you to Gold VIP.

As you can see this path has some potential bumps as you have to close on the PIC weeks first. And in that gap - Wyndham could change the VIP levels. Or your PIC weeks/resort could fall out of PIC eligibility. They could implement new purchasing levels or rules for PIC enrollment. Those are small risks, but you should be aware of them.

Here is one post of an issue that has occurred with this strategy.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...10-years-later-loss-of-200-000-points.270227/

Another member has PIC weeks at a resort that is voting to convert to fully owned condos. If so, he will lose those VIP Points, and to replace them will likely have to make another $20k purchase.

If there is one constant about Wyndham ... any loophole that gets too popular will be changed.


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## bnoble (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> What is your opinion on the VIP status.


Even under the most optimistic sets of assumptions under current rules and price points, it is at best a break-even proposition. I'm convinced that for most people it's no where near a good value.

If you end up keeping that Discovery package, it's a little more expensive than it needs to be, but it is not the end of the world. Try it out and see if you like Wyndham at all. If you do, _then_ do your research and decide if and how you want to buy.


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## Jan M. (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Is VIP gold 300 or 400k point or more. I see all different posts. I'd like to keep my initial investment to under 40k for VIP gold. Is that reasonable?



Braindead explained about buying a couple of weeks on the resale market at a non Wyndham property that when enrolled in the PIC program will give you enough points to help you reach a VIP level with a purchase of points directly from Wyndham. That would be the cheapest way to reach gold. But even then I'm not sure you could do it for $40k. Maybe in the past but I wouldn't count on being able to do it now. If you look at my profile information you can see that we are not only platinum but also presidential reserve owners. We did that before I found TUG and yes we spent a boatload of money

I don't know if Wyndham is still giving bonus points when you buy but they are usually good for two years if I remember correctly. And I think we had to pay maintenance fees on the bonus points. They typically gave you enough bonus points to get you to a VIP level or the next higher one if you were already VIP. Many people like us got used to having the better benefits of the VIP levels thanks to bonus points and ended up buying more points to keep that level. Silver isn't that big of a deal for the money you spend as you only get at 25% discount at 30 days out. For most people 30 days is a pretty tight window to schedule and plan a vacation so it is harder to make use of the discounts and upgrades. Gold gets you 35% at 45 days out and platinum gets you 50% at 60 days out. All three VIP levels get you an upgrade on the unit size if something is available.

Before my husband finally retired at the beginning of this month he was home based and set his own work schedule so we were able to make good use of the discount and upgrades on the unit size. Before we moved to Florida I worked 50-60 hour work weeks but like my husband I was able to take time off without a great deal of advance notice. Most people don't have that luxury. We haven't been tied to a school schedule for 14-15 years as we started taking some vacations by ourselves when our son was a junior in high school. When we went on vacations we went back to the same areas/resorts as I needed to be on vacation my first day in, not take several days to acclimate to a new resort in a new city. We came to Florida in January or February and stayed at Sea Gardens in either a one or two bedroom unit in the Ocean Palms building. March was Las Vegas, Grand Desert, for a convention for my job and we added some extra days as it was our anniversary. The end of May before schools let out we went to Myrtle Beach and stayed at Ocean Boulevard. September or October was back to either Myrtle Beach or Las Vegas and we always had a two bedroom unit at both places. We went to DC, Old Town Alexandria, one year for several days over the 4th of July and one other time for a few days in either the Spring or Fall and both times were in a one bedroom unit. We were never in a position of having to have reservations for set dates. Nor did we need three or four bedroom units either. We went when I found reservations and reasonably priced flights for the Florida and Las Vegas trips. We drove to DC and Myrtle Beach so I didn't even have to work around finding flights for those vacations. Sometimes I had to keep searching and also had to piece together the reservations to get the length of stay I wanted. I wasn't trying to find reservations over Thanksgiving, Christmas or Easter nor over the summer when school is out. Being able to book, plan and travel in under 45-60 days worked for us but wouldn't for many people. My point in all this is that yes I was able to get the discount on the reservations and often the upgrade too but the only reason I was able to do this was because we could make what I found work for us. And I wasn't using the old book, cancel, rebook, upgrade trick to get them either which is no longer possible as of last year with the new website. Many unhappy VIP owners are now finding since the new website that they are no longer able to get the discount and upgrades they did in the past.

I would get that Discovery package rescinded today while you still can. If you can find the thread where people have talked about the Discovery packages you will find that you won't have access to all the Wyndham resorts and there are some restrictions too. Then think long and hard about spending the money to be gold VIP as it is likely going to be more money than you are anticipating. It might end up being worth if for you given your work situation but I think you need to take more time to think this through. One other thing you should consider. You mentioned buying resale points to stack the benefits in a VIP account. I wouldn't count on that in the future. Yes it could continue for years to come, but it could also end tomorrow. This is Wyndham. We've learned a lot in the past year and a half and very little of what we've learned has made us happy.


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## jwalk03 (Feb 22, 2018)

I have a hard time figuring out how spending $40k+ by buying developer makes more sense than spending ~$4k buying resale to get the same number of points.  Are you really going to get $36k of value out of the Gold VIP benefits?!  I get that the discount points and upgrades add up, but it would take a lot of discounts and a lot of upgrades to get to $36k, especially when you are nowhere near guaranteed a discount and/or an upgrade on every trip!  Only when available, and they often will not be available if you are traveling at peak times and to popular resorts.


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## paxsarah (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> I hear ya but I can see the benefits of being a VIP member and having a little more flexibility in my choices. I don't mind spending a little extra for more choice and not being told no



I just wanted to comment on this. Except for a few small exceptions, VIP does not get you more choice or availability, especially with short-notice traveling as you indicated you can/want to do. I'm pretty sure the only VIP benefits that go toward availability are RARP (which only applies from 11-10 months prior to travel), and the ability to book at the Margaritaville resorts. (Others, correct me if I missed any.) I guess if we're looking at "flexibility" you could throw in unlimited housekeeping and reservation transactions and the extended time to use the points deposit feature, but that's a little bit of a stretch since housekeeping and RTs could be paid for out of the $30-40,000 you could save going resale, and a few extra months of points deposit can mostly be dealt with through smart points management.



jwalk03 said:


> Are you really going to get $36k of value out of the Gold VIP benefits?!



This is what it comes down to. Look at the things that VIPs actually get for free (fees, discounts, upgrades), be realistic about how much you would use them (like, will you book 100% of the time in the discount window? probably not), and find a break-even point. And that assumes that nothing goes wrong, your travel patterns never change, and you work the system as hard as you can. Decide if being locked into one style of vacationing until that break-even point is worth it for you. On the other hand, a cheap resale buy-in is also fairly easy to toss off later on if life circumstances change, because we don't have a psychological attachment to how much we spent on it - no sunk cost fallacy.


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## Braindead (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> What is your opinion on the VIP status. I'm ok with the initial costs if the VIP status is worth it long term. Also since everything is point based now vs deed. How does that change the monthly fees. I'm considering buying 300k points for basic VIP and then another 200k to 700k points on resale.





bnoble said:


> If you end up keeping that Discovery package, it's a little more expensive than it needs to be, but it is not the end of the world. Try it out and see if you like Wyndham at all. If you do, _then_ do your research and decide if and how you want to buy.


If you are unsure whether to rescind the Discovery Package or not
Call today and try to make the reservation you want.
If you get the reservation keep the Discovery as bnoble points out it’s not the end of the world. Probably save a little on a purchase
If you don’t get it rescind today. You will of just learned first hand sales weasels lie.

Advice if you do wish to proceed with VIP Gold
Between now and your Discovery reservation
Do some research on finding possible PIC Plus weeks that you may want to use yourself. As Eric pointed out make sure to do PIC Plus not Express
Then make sure your possible PIC weeks qualify before purchasing
If your satisfied with the Wyndham product then proceed to achieving your VIP Gold account at your Discovery vacation

I would do 2 PIC Plus 3 bedroom with a purchase of CWA points. Why ?
As outlined it’s the cheapest. Still think it can be done for $40,000.00 or less
700k points at a low MF resort such as Desert Blue around $140,000.00. Maybe more or less but they sell large packages for less per point
700k points in CWA maybe $100,000.00 because it’s a large purchase.

Even if Wyndham drops your PIC weeks down the road.
You risked very little financially to get 508k points and learned the system. As I stated buy where you might use them anyway

Biggest benefits of VIP Gold or Platinum in my opinion 
Extra time to deposit points into a future year. It’s possible this could save thousands of dollars in any single year if your travel plans change in the last six months of a year.
The ability to choose your room number.
Access to Margaritavilles 
You might be surprised at the discounted reservations available if your willing to spend the time searching for the them


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## Bomoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Braindead said:


> If your bound and determined to be VIP you need to learn about PIC weeks. Get two 3 bedrooms worth 508k points and enroll them into the program when you buy 300k CWA points for $45,000.00 . You will be Gold VIP for under $50k with 808,000 points


Thank you for the responses. Yes, I believe that my situation will benefit me by investing in a VIP gold. Any suggestions or help in finding the two 3 bedroom worth 508k points would be great. And how to switch them to pic program. Is there a guide on how to do it and what type of 3 bedroom unit I'm looking for. Ty


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## CCdad (Feb 22, 2018)

Just a clarification on the eligibility date(s) for the VIP discounts:

Silver (25%), Gold (35%) and Platinum (50%) are eligible for the VIP discount at 60 days (not 30 for Silver vs 45 for Gold as previously stated).  The 30 vs 45 vs 60 days from check in refer to the dates when the respective Silver, Gold and Platinum VIPs become eligible for a unit size upgrade. 

Unit size upgrades - if available - and *if the Voyager system properly assigns them* based upon an as yet undisclosed priority system.  There's an assumption that the unit size upgrade is prioritized based upon:

1) the earliest date that a VIP owner asks for the upgrade to a reservation they've booked
2) whether the VIP owner is otherwise eligible for the upgrade based upon the date the upgrade is available to be assigned, 
3) if the upgrade is for the next unit size up from the unit that VIP booked, and 
4) perhaps prioritized to VIP Platinum first, then Gold second, and finally Silver third in the unlikely event that all three VIP owners requested the unit upgrade on the same day for the same unit size they'd booked.  

There's no visibility or accountability that confirms how upgrades are doled out by the Voyager system. 

Unit size upgrades after a VIP owner has booked a unit appear to be a random occurrence. Many VIP owners have found upgrade eligible units online, when that unit should have been an upgrade for a reservation they've already booked.

And for the best possible pricing, consider calling the Wyndham Corporate Direct Sales department when deciding whether a developer purchase combined with PIC week enrollment(s) may make sense for your personal travel profile.


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## Bomoto (Feb 22, 2018)

It's just me and the wife so an upgrade isn't what I'm after. 1 bedroom unit with a kitchen is mostly what we will book. It's the last min vacations at a discount on points and if we want a specific location one year. Getting a priority booking for it. Usually we plan an overseas location twice a year. Once for Valentine's week and once around July 18th anniversary. Our other 3 to 4 vacations are random and flexible. I want to make sure that our 2 specific weeks are in different countries every year and are preplanned in advanced. The other weeks I will schedule based on discounted availability. Being able to book those two priority weeks before they sell out and maximizing my points on my variable vacations is why I'm chasing the VIP gold status.


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## jwalk03 (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> It's just me and the wife so an upgrade isn't what I'm after. 1 bedroom unit with a kitchen is mostly what we will book. It's the last min vacations at a discount on points and if we want a specific location one year. Getting a priority booking for it. Usually we plan an overseas location twice a year. Once for Valentine's week and once around July 18th anniversary. Our other 3 to 4 vacations are random and flexible. I want to make sure that our 2 specific weeks are in different countries every year and are preplanned in advanced. The other weeks I will schedule based on discounted availability. Being able to book those two priority weeks before they sell out and maximizing my points on my variable vacations is why I'm chasing the VIP gold status.



Wyndham does not have resorts in other countries for you to take advantage of VIP Benefits at.  The only way to use Wyndham points to stay in other countries will be through an RCI exchange (options are limited, and the quality of the resorts varies WIDELY!)  There will be no priority booking on any of these RCI exchanges.


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## dgalati (Feb 22, 2018)

jwalk03 said:


> I have a hard time figuring out how spending $40k+ by buying developer makes more sense than spending ~$4k buying resale to get the same number of points.  Are you really going to get $36k of value out of the Gold VIP benefits?!  I get that the discount points and upgrades add up, but it would take a lot of discounts and a lot of upgrades to get to $36k, especially when you are nowhere near guaranteed a discount and/or an upgrade on every trip!  Only when available, and they often will not be available if you are traveling at peak times and to popular resorts.


Makes very little cents. No pun intended


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## dgalati (Feb 22, 2018)

jwalk03 said:


> I have a hard time figuring out how spending $40k+ by buying developer makes more sense than spending ~$4k buying resale to get the same number of points.  Are you really going to get $36k of value out of the Gold VIP benefits?!  I get that the discount points and upgrades add up, but it would take a lot of discounts and a lot of upgrades to get to $36k, especially when you are nowhere near guaranteed a discount and/or an upgrade on every trip!  Only when available, and they often will not be available if you are traveling at peak times and to popular resorts.


Must be the new type of math they teach in school today Core Competency?


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## Braindead (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Any suggestions or help in finding the two 3 bedroom worth 508k points would be great. And how to switch them to pic program. Is there a guide on how to do it and what type of 3 bedroom unit I'm looking for. Ty


I was advised to pick a high demand week at a high demand resort. That way you have the best chance of your week staying in the PIC Plus program and if you want to sell someday it will be easier to get back out.
Search 3 bedroom on eBay or look here on TUG and Redweek.
Then make sure they trade through RCI, its a fixed week with no points attached.
Check with Wyndham to make sure the weeks qualify
Purchase weeks and enroll them when making your purchase with Wyndham.
I’m hesitant to name resorts but one mentioned to me. But it’s not where I ended up buying
The Sands of Kahana
You need to go where Wyndham is selling to existing owners. You will find someone more knowledgeable about the program and can walk you through the program. Do not go to a sales office selling to new owners


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## paxsarah (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> Our other 3 to 4 vacations are random and flexible. I want to make sure that our 2 specific weeks are in different countries every year and are preplanned in advanced.



Okay, so when you do the math on how far out your break-even point would be VIP gold to confirm your investment is a sound one, be sure to factor in that you'll only be using the gold VIP discount on 60-70% of your vacations, at most. And as others have noted, there's no VIP benefit that will help you book RCI exchanges into overseas locations. That's really the luck of the draw and setting up ongoing searches early.


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## Braindead (Feb 22, 2018)

jwalk03 said:


> I have a hard time figuring out how spending $40k+ by buying developer makes more sense than spending ~$4k buying resale to get the same number of points.  Are you really going to get $36k of value out of the Gold VIP benefits?!  I get that the discount points and upgrades add up, but it would take a lot of discounts and a lot of upgrades to get to $36k, especially when you are nowhere near guaranteed a discount and/or an upgrade on every trip!  Only when available, and they often will not be available if you are traveling at peak times and to popular resorts.


Several factors come into play. I truly believe it’s a personal choice. We all put different values on choices we make
1. Financial standing. There are people that I wouldn’t even recommend that they spend $4k on resale points. Never barrow money for a timeshare
2. Your age. How many years do you expect to travel. Do you have kids that will want your ownership
3. Point deposit could be a big deal. Lose 500k points because your plans changed late in the year. Kiss $2,500-$3,000 goodbye
4. Pick your room. I don’t go to the beach to look at a parking ramp on my balcony. Last resort we were at listened to 3 couples complaining about        
    their room assignment. Bonnet Creek I want to watch the fireworks from our balcony not a parking ramp or trees
5. We wanted access to Margaritaville without owning there. Glad I didn’t buy there with all of the hurricane damage
6. RARP. I have needed it and used it
7. Unlimited reservations and housekeeping. Little things that add up over the years.
8. Sandi Bo has pointed out that if your willing to put in the effort you can find those high demand reservations in your discount window.
    We needed another room for spring break at Bonnet Creek. I have reserved the whole week in the last 30 days for next month

I could be wrong but our experience since Voyagers disaster is that the resort staff seems to be bending over backwards for VIP owners.
Atleast that’s the way we have been treated.


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## Jan M. (Feb 22, 2018)

CCdad said:


> Silver (25%), Gold (35%) and Platinum (50%) are eligible for the VIP discount at 60 days (not 30 for Silver vs 45 for Gold as previously stated).



My bad! We've been VIP long enough that I didn't realize my info was out of date.

Here is a point chart for Desert Blue in Las Vegas to give you an idea of what a reservation would cost for a gold VIP owner during the discount and free unit size upgrade period vs a non VIP owner. Using the discount and upgrade windows I'm looking at a *5 night stay, checking in on Sunday April 8 and checking out on Friday, April 13*. Not sure but I might be off by a day on the 45 day window for the free upgrade on the unit size but you get the idea. There are both a studio and a two bedroom deluxe available. In this case there was no one bedroom deluxe available but it should be taken into consideration that many resorts don't have studios. For calculating purposes I'm going to use my maintenance fees which are not the lowest but are pretty good and also CWA, Club Wyndham Access, maintenance fees to get some comparison. I'm using the figure of $6.34 per thousand points for CWA mf's from what an OP posted. When you look at my figures also take into consideration that the reservation I'm using doesn't include a Friday or Saturday night stay which are a whole lot more points. I used a newer resort for my example because the points to book at them are always higher than the older resorts. The point chart for each resort is established when that resort is brought into the system and that chart will never change. New people often gravitate to the newer resorts so I wanted to give a more balanced view than if I used an older resort for my example

*VIP Gold
78,000* points needed to book that 5 night stay in a *studio* for gold VIP, Sunday-Thursday only. *Free upgrade on the unit size to the two bedroom deluxe.*
At my mf's: *$391.80.*
At CWA mf's: *$494.52*
Yes the both the studio and the upgrade to the two bedroom deluxe are currently available for the 5 night stay starting on April 8th.
Free and unlimited transaction fees and housekeeping credits for gold and platinum owners. Silver gets only 1 free transaction credit I believe.
*
Non VIP*
Transaction fee $19 online, $39 over the phone. Depending on what you own you will get at least one free one.
Housekeeping Credits need for the studio are 28 and for the two bedroom are 77. Housekeeping credits cost $2.25 each if you don't have enough left. Thank you paxsarah for the help with this. Non VIP owners get 1 house keeping credit for every 1,000 points I'm editing this post to eliminate the transaction fees and housekeeping credits costs as paxsarah pointed out they don't seem significant enough to include them unless you are using a lot of short stays.

*120,000* points needed to book the *studio* Sunday-Thursday only.
At *my mf's*: *$602.93* - $391.80 gold VIP cost = *$211.13 potential savings for a VIP gold owner with no upgrade.*
At *CWA mf's*: *$760.80* - $494.52 gold VIP cost = *$266.28* *potential savings for a VIP gold owner with no upgrade.*

*300,000* points needed to book the *2 bedroom deluxe* Sunday-Thursday only
At *my mf's*: *$1507.32* - $391.80 VIP gold cost = *$1115.52 potential savings for a VIP gold owner with free upgrade*
At *CWA mf's*: *$1902.00* - $494.52 VIP gold cost = *$1407.48 potential savings for a CWA point VIP gold owner with free upgrade and $1510.20 potential savings for an owner with my mf's.
*





Here on TUG, look in the stickies on the Wyndham forum, you can view the Wyndham directory to look at the point charts for the different resorts you would want to go to in the next year or so. Make sure you are looking at the times of year you might want to go to those resorts. There are a number of resorts you might not want to visit in the value seasons because of the weather at those times. Desert Blue doesn't have a value season, just high and prime seasons. Start running the numbers to realistically see what you would spend on a years worth of vacations both as a VIP gold owner and a non VIP owner. Also factor in if you would only go if you got the discount or free upgrade. You might ask people here on TUG if it is likely that you would end up paying full points to be able to get reservations at the resorts you are considering. Another thing to take into consideration is that some resorts like Emerald Grande in Destin, Florida, only have a small number of one bedroom units, no studios, and even the one bedroom units are a lot of points to book. For many resorts there is typically availability in the smaller units you say you would use but that isn't always the case at every resort.

Only you can decide if the numbers make sense to you in the long run when it comes to being a VIP owner. Take a good hard look at the maintenance fees of where you could own and CWA. As my example clearly shows the mf cost per point adds up in a hurry when you own a lot of points and intend to own for years to come. There is another thread you should read. *Wyndham Changes PIC Points 10 Years Later; Loss of 200,000 Points*


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## paxsarah (Feb 22, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Transaction fee $19 online, $39 over the phone
> Housekeeping Credits need for the studio are 28 and for the two bedroom are 77. Housekeeping credits cost $2.25 each if you don't have enough left. Sorry I forget how many free housekeeping credits non VIP owners get based on what they own. But for this purpose we are going to pretend you have used all of your free ones.



As an alternate data point, I’m pretty sure I’ve never paid for housekeeping credits and we’ve owned since 2010. If you do mostly 5-7+ night stays you may never have to; if you do mostly 2-4 night stays you probably will. And we’ve maybe paid for 1-2 reservation transactions in that time.


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## Jan M. (Feb 22, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> As an alternate data point, I’m pretty sure I’ve never paid for housekeeping credits and we’ve owned since 2010. If you do mostly 5-7+ night stays you may never have to; if you do mostly 2-4 night stays you probably will. And we’ve maybe paid for 1-2 reservation transactions in that time.



Thanks for addressing that. You didn't indicate how many points you own to see how what you have compares to what this person is proposing owning.

I have very little first hand knowledge of transaction fees and housekeeping credits as we've been VIP for so long and got to silver so quickly thanks to bonus points. I wasn't sure whether or not to include those fees but the person who started the thread gets 8 weeks of vacation time a year and can go pretty much whenever so I thought he might be going enough to have to pay for them at some point in his use year if he wasn't VIP. I hope OP will add their experience in regards to paying for transaction fees and housekeeping credits. It will be interesting to see what OP post to conclude if these are benefits that would actually save this person some money if he was VIP gold.

I thought about adding the point values and math for Grand Desert to my earlier post to give some comparison between higher and lower point resorts but the post was long enough as it was with just the Desert Blue figures. I settled for telling him to look at the point charts for various resorts.

If this person were able to do what Braindead suggests with a developer purchase(s) with two PIC's to reach the gold level I'm guessing it might actually be possible to break even at some point. You might have to own for 10 years and have to be really dedicated to making sure you used the VIP benefits as much as possible to break even. We had already spent the money before I found TUG so I never was in this person's position of having so much knowledge and help at my fingertips.

For the people who spent in the range of what we did it would be interesting to see what those people say about whether they think it is possible to break even ever. No I'm not going to say what we spent because even thinking about it makes me cringe and wonder what possessed us. As my husband says the money is spent so forget about it and just enjoy using the resorts. And I did just that until the new website. If Wyndham would just get the kinks worked out of the website and other issues resolved I could easily go back to just enjoying using the resorts.


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## Rich2699 (Feb 22, 2018)

Bomoto said:


> It's just me and the wife so an upgrade isn't what I'm after. 1 bedroom unit with a kitchen is mostly what we will book. It's the last min vacations at a discount on points and if we want a specific location one year. Getting a priority booking for it. Usually we plan an overseas location twice a year. Once for Valentine's week and once around July 18th anniversary. Our other 3 to 4 vacations are random and flexible. I want to make sure that our 2 specific weeks are in different countries every year and are preplanned in advanced. The other weeks I will schedule based on discounted availability. Being able to book those two priority weeks before they sell out and maximizing my points on my variable vacations is why I'm chasing the VIP gold status.



There are obviously some advantages to being VIP, but if you're mainly doing it to save 25% or 35% of your points then another way that you might want to look at it is that buying re-sale you're getting that discount and probably much more up front.  Sure, it is nice to not have to consider housekeeping points and some of the other perks, but if you aren't concerned about upgrades, guest certificates, etc. I'm not sure that you'll get the value of the initial investment.


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## paxsarah (Feb 23, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Thanks for addressing that. You didn't indicate how many points you own to see how what you have compares to what this person is proposing owning.



We’re billed for 269,500 annually, but our actual points allotment is higher in odd years, lower in evens due to EOY contracts. The HK credits are issued as 1 per 1,000 points, so it shouldn’t really matter how large an account one has, but rather as I stated, the length of the trips one takes on average. However, in the case of a larger account where all trips are shorter weekend jaunts, the owner could end up paying a lot in HK. We stick more to the 5-7 night range and have never had a problem.

Edit to add some math:
Say he buys 700k points and plans to take 8 weeks of vacation in a 1br. Example 1, he takes 4 full weeks and 4 weeks where he splits the week between two locations (or just call it 8 long weekends) - so 12 reservations. That’s going to cost 12 x 63 housekeeping credits = 756, so he’ll be paying for 56 HK for the entire year in that scenario. Example 2, his vacations are entirely 5-night stays. 11 stays is 55 nights (1 night shy of 56 or 8 weeks). 11 stays is 693 HK credits, and he wouldn’t have to pay any out of pocket.

OTOH, if every week is split into two stays (I.e. 16 total stays), that’s 1,008 HK where they’d be paying 308 out of pocket for the year - not cheap!


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