# Can we revisit the $700 maximum for a last minute rental



## icydog (May 19, 2009)

I know the price is set at $700 to cover maintenance fees but for expensive timeshares like DVC and Caribbean Marriott's a week could cost thousands in maintenance fees. Is there anyway to raise the fees for high cost resorts? Thank you.


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## timeos2 (May 19, 2009)

*Misreading the intent*

IF the reason for the LMR Board was to cover owners expenses then you'd have an argument. But that has never been the case. The only reason LMR was created was to offer a free spot (at that time TUG classifieds were pay only) that an owner could offer seriously distressed time (it is tough to make travel plans 30-45 days out for many locations) to others at a great price. It wasn't meant to cover costs (many weeks that are advertised for a number well under the fee go unclaimed) but to prevent the time from going to waste and to get those that could take advantage a great last minute deal. The $700 week / $100 day limits help make that the case.  

If the week / days in questions really ARE worth more than $100 per day even at 45 or less then use the Classifieds.  The reality is most aren't and simply raising the limit will only serve to clutter up the Board with more unclaimed offers. 

As always if there is a groundswell of support for a higher limit then it can be done. To date based on a very unscientific reading AND the shear number of unused offers there appears to be no need to change the rules.


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

icydog said:


> I know the price is set at $700 to cover maintenance fees but for expensive timeshares like DVC and Caribbean Marriott's a week could cost thousands in maintenance fees. Is there anyway to raise the fees for high cost resorts? Thank you.



The main draw for the last minute rentals is that they are cheap. I look through the posts occassionally not really needing a week but thinking if I found something I wanted really cheap I might take it. If it gets cluttered with $1000 to $1500 rentals fewer people will bother to wade through all the available rentals.

If you want to rent your week for more than $700, that can be done on the regular TUG rental site, Redweek, Myresortnetwork, etc, etc, etc. If your expensive week hasn't rented and the check in date is 45 days or less you can list it for $700 or keep it posted where you originally had it listed and keep your fingers crossed. The choice is yours on where you want to post it, but to increase the maximum rental price would hurt the LMR's drawing point which is these weeks are for rent for $700 or less.

Just because your week is within 45 days of check-in doesn't qualify it to be listed as a LMR unless the asking price is also $700 or less. Of course the same type of request could be made that anyone should be able to list any week they want for $700 even if it is 6 months in advance since it also meets one of the 2 LMR criteria (check in no farther than 45 days out and rental price no higher than $700). No LMR listing should be allowed unless it meets both criteria IMO.

Leave the rules as they are. That way everyone can decide to list their week for $700 or not without people arguing that their week is worth more than other weeks at other resorts. Let's face it, if the week is worth more than $700, you could easily rent it for more elsewhere. If someone is even considering renting their "expensive timeshare week" on LMR it hasn't rented for what they think it is worth elsewhere. The owners just have to decide if they will hold onto the week until the bitter end or attempt rent it for $700 on LMR rather than getting nothing for it. The worst part is that there is no guarantee that an owner will receive a $700 offer in this economy even if they do decide to list it on LMR.


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## DeniseM (May 19, 2009)

This was just discussed on April 28th - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96639


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## thinze3 (May 19, 2009)

How long has it been at $700?
If for more than a few years, then maybe it is outdated and underpriced now. What cost $700 a few short years ago no longer costs $700 today. Inflation should be considered into the equation every once in a while.

MY OPINION


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## geekette (May 19, 2009)

Really, this was JUST DISCUSSED, and has been brought up numerous times.

The bottom line has not changed:  this is not a primary rental outlet, it is for last minute distressed rentals.  

Why would you not market your timeshares elsewhere way ahead of 45 days out if making your expenses was so important?  Inflation has nothing to do with it.


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## thinze3 (May 19, 2009)

geekette said:


> Really, this was JUST DISCUSSED, and has been brought up numerous times.
> 
> The bottom line has not changed:  this is not a primary rental outlet, it is for last minute distressed rentals.  ...



I don't think anyone has yet to call it a "primary rental outlet". In 20 years should it still be $700?

I have an idea, Why not make it $300 and call it "distressed timeshare rentals in 1970's dollars"?


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> I don't think anyone has yet to call it a "primary rental outlet". In 20 years should it still be $700?
> 
> I have an idea, Why not make it $300 and call it "distressed timeshare rentals in 1970's dollars"?



Well RCI's last calls are $249 plus tax maximum ($199 minimum), and those prices are in 2009 dollars, so $300 a week maximum for LMR sounds fair.


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## icydog (May 19, 2009)

I face the same arguments on the disboards, I mean about not reevaluating the value of the DVC timeshare. About 15 years ago someone rented his points for $10 a point. The price has remained the same since then. Maintenance fees have quadrupled, many expensive resorts have been added, point costs have gone up, and still folks rent their expensive weeks for $10 a point. 

At some time everything needs to be re-evaluated to see if it makes sense. In this case, I think a fresh look at the LMR might make sense. 

Please don't dismiss this out of hand. Please think about it before you say no. And yes, I understand the function of the LMR board, and yes I know the difference between renting DVC points and the Last Minute Rental Board. 

I was just going for the analogy that things do not remain the same. Inflation and the cost of owning a timeshare has gone up dramatically. 

_Especially_ in these economic times, it makes sense to give folks a fairer share of their cost of maintenance fees. Owners could list the prices they want up to $X amount but it is up to the buyer to negotiate the price. I am only asking for the opportunity to ask a little more.


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## b2bailey (May 19, 2009)

*I think $700 is ok...but I'd like it to be more days out.*

When I have a week I'm not going to be able to use...I need to make a decision about whether to deposit to RCI or II...or be able to rent for $700 or less. By waiting until the 45 day mark, then putting it on the board for LMR, and then deciding to deposit it to II or RCI, it becomes a week that can only be traded less than 60 days out.


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## JeffW (May 19, 2009)

I think there's two ways to look at it.

There first is with a detailed, perhaps legalize definition of what constitutes 'distressed'.  It could be a rental at or below the annual m/f cost.  It could be 50% of the rack weekly (or daily x 7) price, on the assumption that most resorts have public rentals.  

Any formula which equates to some specific resort cost will produce a huge swing in the costs (m/f's can go from a couple hundred to over $2000/wk).  It also could get complicated.  There might need to be a resort code to annual fee lookup table, to make sure a listing for a specific resort doesn't exceed a given amount (who's going to maintain that).

The second way, and admittedly simplistic way, is just to set an arbitrary value.  Is it fair that a 1br Lehigh Acres unit can be listed for $700, same as a 2br-3br WSJ unit?  Probably not.  And it's especially unfair when $700 for L/A is probably way overpriced, whereas for WSJ it could be a downright steal.

Unfortunately life isn't fair.  Whether right or wrong, most people looking at the Distressed section associate with it being inexpensively priced.  And that's an abolute price, not in terms of value.  So, while $900 for the week for a 2br at Atlantis Harborside is probably a good value, it's more than likely many people will spend.  I agree with a previous poster who said that increasing the limit is likely to increase the number of higher price units, which will discourage those looking for real bargains.

Jeff


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## icydog (May 19, 2009)

JeffW said:


> I think there's two ways to look at it.
> 
> There first is with a detailed, perhaps legalize definition of what constitutes 'distressed'.  It could be a rental at or below the annual m/f cost.  It could be 50% of the rack weekly (or daily x 7) price, on the assumption that most resorts have public rentals.
> 
> ...



That is what I mean. If you can weed through the chaff to get to the gold for $900 then many people will do it. BTW, I would love to find a WSJ for $900!!!!


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

icydog said:


> That is what I mean. If you can weed through the chaff to get to the gold for $900 then many people will do it. BTW, I would love to find a WSJ for $900!!!!



Look on the regular TUG rentals, Redweek, myresortnetwork.com, etc and you might find a WSJ week for $900. If you find a WSJ week for rent on LMR it will be for $700 or less. The point is that YOU CAN LIST YOUR WEEK FOR RENT FOR ANY PRICE YOU WANT, ANYWHERE BUT LMR. LMR is $700 max a week, no matter when or where the week is. If that is cheaper than you want to rent your week list it elsewhere.  No one is making you list it on LMR. Boycott LMR because you think your week is worth more than $700, but don't try to change the rules because you have a week you feel is worth a lot of money despite the fact that you have been unable to rent your week for anywhere close to what you feel it is worth. Hint, if you are desperate enough to offer it for $900 on LMR you are desperate enough to list it for $700 because you are getting no offers from anywhere else anyway. If you are not desperate and can rent your week for a lot more than $700 it is a moot point because you don't need to list it on LMR anyway.

P.S. I looked on Redweek and didn't find you a WSJ for $900, but I got real close, and these weeks aren't last minute rentals. E-mail these owners and offer them $900. You might get what you wished for. Here are 2 Redweek listings for your viewing pleasure (of course if they want to list them on LMR the rental price would be $700):

08/11/09 - 08/18/09 7 $1,300 ($186/nt) Garden 0/ 1 4 View 
08/21/09 - 08/28/09 7 $1,295 ($185/nt) Water view 0/ 1 4 View


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## ecwinch (May 19, 2009)

It is amazing that this keeps coming up though. I wonder why.....


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> It is amazing that this keeps coming up though. I wonder why.....



Because so many owners pay $1000 to $2000 in annual MF's and they can't believe that their week won't rent for enough to cover their MF's. It would seem that after listing their weeks for rent on numerous web sites for months for $1500 or $2000 with no takers that they would say heck my week must not be worth what I am asking. Rather than admitting the obvious they are instead insulted that they have to list their "valuable" Marriott, Starwood,HGVC, or DVC week (which they have been unable to rent) for the same $700 price that the non-exclusive resort weeks are being listed. Well if their weeks were actually worth a lot more they would rent them easily and wouldn't have to worry about LMR at all. The reality is something they can not accept so they blame their $700 rental price on TUG's LMR limitations rather than the lack of demand for what they are renting.


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

deleted duplicate post


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## ausman (May 19, 2009)

I've seen a lot of these discussions come and go.

My opinion, there are people who have to gain or lose on both sides of the arguement.

Pretty much throughout the discussions my thought, as others have expressed also, is that the $700 limit was set somewhat capriciously some time ago, and as such should at least be adjusted for the effects of inflation/CPI index increase since.


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## tombo (May 19, 2009)

basham said:


> I've seen a lot of these discussions come and go.
> 
> My opinion, there are people who have to gain or lose on both sides of the arguement.
> 
> Pretty much throughout the discussions my thought, as others have expressed also, is that the $700 limit was set somewhat capriciously some time ago, and as such should at least be adjusted for the effects of inflation/CPI index increase since.



While we are adjusting perhaps we should adjust for recession. Almost every week I have rented this year has rented for less than the same week rented for last year. Many weeks that I rented easily last year have not received any offers. Perhaps we should reduce the maximum rental price on LMR to $600 since we are factoring in the effects of things like the recession.

The only reason I care is if I need to rent a week last minute I want as much exposure as I can get. If instead of $700 max we start having weeks for rent for $1000 or more, the site will simply become another rental site like all others. If you want to rent your week for more than $700, use one of the myriad of other available sites. Let's keep this LMR thread attractive and constantly scanned since all know that any week you find here will rent for $700 or less. The reason this site is so popular is not because the weeks are available for check-ins of 45 days or less (that is the downside of the listings), the draw is that all weeks are available for $700 or less. 

Don't change the thing that makes LMR unique and attractive because of the feeling of a few that their week is worth a lot more than any renter they can find thinks it is worth. If the LMR rental prices become overpriced on LMR like they are on the other rental sites, there will be no compelling reason to watch for new listings.


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## Jennie (May 20, 2009)

tombo said:


> Well RCI's last calls are $249 plus tax maximum ($199 minimum), and those prices are in 2009 dollars, so $300 a week maximum for LMR sounds fair.



RCI can rent it at that price-- for a profit, no less--because they paid nothing to acquire it. The owner paid the maintenance fees (and Special Assessments, if applicable), paid an annual RCI membership fee, and will pay an exchange fee (and possibly a guest certificate fee)when they obtain an exchange for it. 

RCI used to unload these weeks on web sites like Mall Perks, SkyAuction.com and many others for as low as $39. per week in the late 1990's and $99. in the early 2000's. I know because we went on many vacations through these deals. Now RCI, no longer afraid of lawsuits, brazenly unloads them at 2 to 10times that price and the really good stuff usually appears only within 2 weeks of the check-in date, if at all. 

Just like here on the LMR, the mediocre units go unclaimed. The high end units are snapped up quickly.

I have listed many prime weeks on the LMR and Redweek.com at the same time. I knew I would get several hundred dollars more at redweek, but sometimes I'm willing to accept less from a TUGger because they would not ask endless questions, would treat the unit with respect, and would feel comfortable doing a quick PayPal deal with a "stranger"  (i.e. a TUG friend not yet met). With the economy as it is, I generally use Redweek and endure a bit more hassle to net $300. or more per week.

I have had virtually no responses to ads placed in the TUG classifieds and I must confess that unless I am looking for a specific week and resort, I seldom remember to go to the TUG Marketplace. But out of years of habit, I check the LMR board almost daily. I have rented weeks on impulse, having had no prior plans to go to that place until I saw the ad. That is one of the wonderful perks of being retired.

However, I know that many great weeks will not be posted here because of the $700. maximum limit. That impacts upon all TUGgers, not just the owner who has a last minute emergency.


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## Egret1986 (May 20, 2009)

*The Marketplace has no maximums or minimums; you can list for whatever you want*



icydog said:


> I was just going for the analogy that things do not remain the same. Inflation and the cost of owning a timeshare has gone up dramatically.
> 
> _Especially_ in these economic times, it makes sense to give folks a fairer share of their cost of maintenance fees. Owners could list the prices they want up to $X amount but it is up to the buyer to negotiate the price. I am only asking for the opportunity to ask a little more.



LMR is for folks who are offering a last minute rental and are willing to accept no more than $700 in order to get something for a week that may go unused.  As stated previously, it will become just another classified area and that is not the purpose. Folks have given the reasons each time this is brought up as to why it is capped at $700.  It has nothing to do with inflation or what folks' maintenance fees are.  It is a way to possibly get something towards maintenance fees on a week that just won't rent at the price being asked in other classified ads.  The option is there; either be happy if someone is willing to possibly pay $700 towards your maintenance fees, use the week yourself or let it go unused.  The choice is there.  No arm twisting.  

Many LMR listings are at great resorts for great prices and aren't being taken as stated previously. 

I once got a 2BR lock-off in Williamsburg for $150 posted on the LMR board.  I couldn't use it except for a few days, but at that price it was a great deal.  No one forced the owner to post it at that price on the LMR board.  They could have posted it on another classified area or site for the amount of their maintenance fee and it would have possibly sat there empty with no compensation towards their fees.

The LMR is a last ditch enticement to offer a week at a price that might get someone to rent it because it is a great price.  If it's the price you're asking in other ads (where it didn't rent); it's just clutter on the LMR board.


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## Jennie (May 20, 2009)

tombo said:


> LMR is $700 max a week, no matter when or where the week is...Don't try to change the rules because...you are getting no offers from anywhere else anyway. If you are not desperate and can rent your week for a lot more than $700 it is a moot point because you don't need to list it on LMR anyway.



Why not consider raising the $700. max which was set at a time when almost everyone paid less than that in maintenance fees. The price was set at a level that was supposed to prevent anyone from making a profit--just recoup their maintenance fees. In many cases, the $700. max no longer accomplishes this. 

Don't assume that TUG members only post ads on the Last Minute Board when they are not getting a higher price elsewhere. 

*I prefer to start here* first to eliminate all the hassles of dealing with non-ts owner strangers who know little about timeshares, are nervous about paying a "stranger," and need a lot of "hand holding."  I have rented to many such people and they tend to become repeat customers. But I'd rather settle for less money if I can obtain a quick easy deal with a long-term TUG member whom I can trust. When I know from their posts that they are a mature couple, I don't have to worry about a group of wild college kids showing up and trashing the unit, or making too much noise, or checking out late or....

When I would net a couple of hundred dollars lower here than on Redweek or MyResortNetwork, or Craigslist, it was okay as long as it came close to covering the maintenance fees. I became friends with some of the TUG renters and rented from them later on too. 

But as m/f fees have risen dramatically, and the rental value of some of my weeks on Redweek and MyResortNetwork and even Craigslist has risen to several hundred dollars more than the TUG $700. limit, my high end "stuff" goes there. I know many other TUGgers who are doing the same thing. We are not "boycotting" the LMR board, just doing what is financially best. There are probably hundreds of excellent weeks that would have been made available here for $900. but were instead rented on Redweek or other sites for that price or more. 

Does that serve the best interests of all TUG members? TUG members are missing out on the opportunity to vacation at some primo places that they will probably never receive as an exchange. Would it not be better to let the extra postings occur, than to prevent them? Anything priced too high will be quickly ignored--or negotiated. It takes me less than a minute or two to scan down each page. 

I seldom look past the first two or three pages. A lot of older ads could be deleted so as to not clutter up the board. Many people rent the week and forget to post that the week is rented. If the older ads are deleted to make room for the new ones, the poster could come back and re-post if the unit is still available.


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## tombo (May 20, 2009)

Jennie said:


> Don't assume that TUG members only post ads on the Last Minute Board when they are not getting a higher price elsewhere.
> 
> *I prefer to start here* first to eliminate all the hassles of dealing with non-ts owner strangers who know little about timeshares, are nervous about paying a "stranger," and need a lot of "hand holding."  I have rented to many such people and they tend to become repeat customers. But I'd rather settle for less money if I can obtain a quick easy deal with a long-term TUG member whom I can trust. When I know from their posts that they are a mature couple, I don't have to worry about a group of wild college kids showing up and trashing the unit, or making too much noise, or checking out late or....



Why would your first rental listing be on a site that only allows you to advertise your week 45 days in advance? If you are worried about bad renters don't rent at all. Why not advertise 6 months to a year in advance like everyone else to get more exposure, higher rental rates, and give your renters longer to make vacation plans and plane reservations? Why would you start out advertising 45 days or less in advance and then complain that you could only ask $700? Everyone knows the closer the check-in date gets the lower your rental price has to be to attract renters.



Jennie said:


> When I would net a couple of hundred dollars lower here than on Redweek or MyResortNetwork, or Craigslist, it was okay as long as it came close to covering the maintenance fees. I became friends with some of the TUG renters and rented from them later on too.



Great, then you are happy taking less on LMR than you can get from other sites. The other sites allow you to ask any rental price you want, LMR limits you to renting for $700 or less. You are happy to rent on LMR for less which is your choice. I choose to rent my weeks for as much as I can get as far in advance as I can find a renter and use LMR for the weeks I couldn't rent elsewhere. I know I am going to (hopefully) rent my week for a bargain price on LMR like the web site was designed to be used, but something beats nothing. By the time my week is listed on LMR I have already tried to rent my week for more than $700 on several other sites, for several months, with no success. If you want to use LMR as your first and only rental site, then you know up front that your rental listing wild be free, the check-in date will be within 45 days of your listing the week for rent, and you will get no more than $700 for the week.



Jennie said:


> But as m/f fees have risen dramatically, and the rental value of some of my weeks on Redweek and MyResortNetwork and even Craigslist has risen to several hundred dollars more than the TUG $700. limit, my high end "stuff" goes there. I know many other TUGgers who are doing the same thing. We are not "boycotting" the LMR board, just doing what is financially best. There are probably hundreds of excellent weeks that would have been made available here for $900. but were instead rented on Redweek or other sites for that price or more.



Then rent them on Redweek, Myresortnetwork, and Craigslist for more. Rent them for $5000 a week if you can find a renter. Those are the sites are where you rent your weeks for the most money you can get as far in advance of the check-in dates as you want. LMR is where you rent weeks you couldnt rent on those sites or couldn't use last minute for $700 or less. That is why it is attractive for both renters and owners because if you can travel last minute, you can travel for $700 or less. 

There is no reason to reduce the LMR appeal by allowing the listing of more expensive rentals. If you don't want to rent your week for $700 or less, don't list it on LMR.


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## alwysonvac (May 20, 2009)

*Just a suggestion*

Can we have add a "Last minute Rental" category under the "FOR RENT ADS" on the TUG MarketPlace? It could have the same criteria (45 days or less into the future) but w/o any rental limits.


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## Pens_Fan (May 20, 2009)

I don't see the problem, as you can post rentals for any price in the Marketplace.

LMR is just a subset of those rentals.


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## tombo (May 20, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> Can we have add a "Last minute Rental" category under the "FOR RENT ADS" on the TUG MarketPlace? It could have the same criteria (45 days or less into the future) but w/o any rental limits.



 You can already rent anything you want on the Market Place with no restrictions on rental prices or check in dates. List your ad on the Market Place with the heading of last minute rental and you will relay the same message to potential renters.

Why is it that people who can't find a renter on other sites for more than $700 suddenly feel cheated when they have to list it for $700 on LMR? If it is really worth more than $700 (as some think it is), then you could have rented it on other sites for more than $700. I would assume that as the check in date comes closer that you all lower your asking prices on Redweek etc. Keep lowering the asking prices to the least you would take for your week on all of the other sites. If you are down to 45 days or less and you still have no offers of over $700, rent it on LMR for $700 (if you can find a renter at any price in this economy). If you refuse to let your week rent for $700,leave it for rent for whatever price you want on other sites, use it yourself, or bank it. If you can't rent it and don't want to bank it, then just let it sit empty rather than accept a potential $700 just to prove your point. 

Don't clutter up the LMR with high priced rentals that didn't rent for the same high prices on other sites. LMR is designed to attract bargain shoppers so desperate owners can rent their weeks for some money before the week is totally lost.


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## Elan (May 20, 2009)

Even though he's a 'Bama fan, I agree completely with tombo.     Keep LMR as it is -- a place to possibly recover something for an otherwise unused week.  There are plenty of other rental venues for everything that doesn't meet the LMR criteria.


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## ecwinch (May 20, 2009)

Pens_Fan said:


> I don't see the problem, as you can post rentals for any price in the Marketplace.
> 
> LMR is just a subset of those rentals.



The discussion on this topic always goes the same, those supporting the status quo always point out that:

1) TUG is not a rental board, LMR is cost-recovery tool
2) We have the marketplace for everything else
3) It's not broke, why fix it

The discussion always ignores 
1) LMR gets a significantly more views than marketplace ads
2) The sellers on LMR are more active and engaged than those placing ads. I personally have found the ads to be a marginal tool for obtaining rentals
3) The 45 day and $700 thresholds are arbitrary values, and have little logic supporting their selection. The only meaningful arguments are that $700 has some relation to m/f (getting more tenuous each yr), and that 45 days is what RCI uses for their Last Minute specials

I hope someday there will be enough owners who recognize that LMR could be a much more effective outlet for owners to help each other if we made the guidelines a little bit more flexible and rooted in the real world.

Until then, this topic will continue to pop up. Being able to respond with some meaningful context for the guidelines would be better than what we do today.


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## alwysonvac (May 20, 2009)

tombo said:


> You can already rent anything you want on the Market Place with no restrictions on rental prices or check in dates. List your ad on the Market Place with the heading of last minute rental and you will relay the same message to potential renters.



You misunderstood my post. I'm not looking to rent my timeshares. I'm interested in what folks have to rent at the last minute.The current Marketplace search option is not really setup for this type of search - http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ClassifiedSearch.aspx

I don't mind paying more than $700 a week if I think it's worth it. I've posted II getaways on the Sighting Board that are over $700 a week. I just want quick and easy access to last minute deals. 

I'm not looking to change the current LMR process. I just want an additional feature added to the Marketplace.


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## geekette (May 20, 2009)

Jennie said:


> Does that serve the best interests of all TUG members? TUG members are missing out on the opportunity to vacation at some primo places that they will probably never receive as an exchange. Would it not be better to let the extra postings occur, than to prevent them? Anything priced too high will be quickly ignored--or negotiated. It takes me less than a minute or two to scan down each page.



Tug Members can go to the marketplace right here on Tug and all the other websites, too, so if you have an attractively-priced rental on another site or in the marketplace, a Tugger interested in it could still find it.  Tuggers don't miss out on things they really want.

I believe that leaving it as it is best serves Tug and its membership.  Just like has been found every time this issue is visited.


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## thinze3 (May 20, 2009)

Since it is such a service in it's current never-to-be-adjusted way, maybe it should be a perk to Tug members and not guests. Just a thought.


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## geekette (May 20, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> Since it is such a service in it's current never-to-be-adjusted way, maybe it should be a perk to Tug members and not guests. Just a thought.



You can go that way, but you lose offerings and potential renters.


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## tschwa2 (May 20, 2009)

I am a little nervous about voiceing my opinion because I haven't been a memeber for that long and I don't have a lot of posts but here are my 2 cents.  I see both sides and I think that some changes wouldn't hurt the board.  Maybe let rentals go up to $1000 for properties that have MF that high or higher (not including club dues, or RCI,II memberships etc.)  I think going to 60 days out instead of 45 days would be helpful so if something can't be rented it could be deposited somewhere.  It would also give a renter more time to plan.

That being said people who post on the LMR board should be strongly encouraged to post discounted rentals (at least $50-$100 less than they posted in other ads/sites).  As soon as they rent or deposit thier units they should post a message that it is no longer available.

Another solution would be to have 2 categories in the LMR board:$600 or less and $601-$1000 (again no more than MF but the top end of this one could be revisited from time to time)

I haven't rented out or rented from someone else but I do read the posts and just wanted to say what I think might be useful to me. 

Tracey


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## thinze3 (May 20, 2009)

tschwa2 said:


> I am a little nervous about voiceing my opinion because I haven't been a memeber for that long and I don't have a lot of posts but here are my 2 cents.  I see both sides and I think that some changes wouldn't hurt the board.  Maybe let rentals go up to $1000 for properties that have MF that high or higher (not including club dues, or RCI,II memberships etc.)  I think going to 60 days out instead of 45 days would be helpful so if something can't be rented it could be deposited somewhere.  It would also give a renter more time to plan.
> 
> That being said people who post on the LMR board should be strongly encouraged to post discounted rentals (at least $50-$100 less than they posted in other ads/sites).  As soon as they rent or deposit thier units they should post a message that it is no longer available.
> 
> ...



Tracey - How dare you suggest a change?
*BITE*
Your head is now gone.

:hysterical:


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## geekette (May 20, 2009)

Tracey, please don't be nervous!!  I'm glad you spoke up.  

The main problem I see in your plan is the part about limiting to maint fees.  It's not feasible to keep track of all the maint fees with all the different ownerships.  Given that those who moderate here are volunteers, it's just too much work to vet every listing.  

do keep posting!



tschwa2 said:


> I am a little nervous about voiceing my opinion because I haven't been a memeber for that long and I don't have a lot of posts but here are my 2 cents.  I see both sides and I think that some changes wouldn't hurt the board.  Maybe let rentals go up to $1000 for properties that have MF that high or higher (not including club dues, or RCI,II memberships etc.)  I think going to 60 days out instead of 45 days would be helpful so if something can't be rented it could be deposited somewhere.  It would also give a renter more time to plan.
> 
> That being said people who post on the LMR board should be strongly encouraged to post discounted rentals (at least $50-$100 less than they posted in other ads/sites).  As soon as they rent or deposit thier units they should post a message that it is no longer available.
> 
> ...


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## tschwa2 (May 20, 2009)

geekette said:


> The main problem I see in your plan is the part about limiting to maint fees.  It's not feasible to keep track of all the maint fees with all the different ownerships.  Given that those who moderate here are volunteers, it's just too much work to vet every listing.



I guess I expected everybody to be honest and "play by the rules" whatever they maybe.  Also other TUGers call people out all the time without having to rely on the moderators everytime.  Members and guests have a lot of different TS and seem very knowledgable about the appropriate MF for properties.  If a few members and guests "get away with" posting for slightly more than there MF's sometimes so be it; but if the boards get clogged with tons of garbage than it can get changed back and at least we can say we tried it and it didn't work.  I don't think going up to $1000 or out to 60 days would do any harm as long as everyone "plays by the rules" and can give TUGers a bargain if they were unable to rent at other outlets.  And even at $1000 some people will be taking substantial losses but at least it will be less of a loss than having to post it at $700.


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## tombo (May 20, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> The discussion always ignores
> 1) LMR gets a significantly more views than marketplace ads



Because there are rarely any realistic rental or resale prices on the marketplace. The owner's asking prices for rentals and resales on TUG market place are usually ridiculously high. This is why not many people shop on the Market place. Listings at $700 or less is why there is considerably more views on LMR. To have $1000 or more rentals with less than 45 days to plan the trip would be a waste and reduce the number of views of LMR ads because of all of the high dollar asking prices. If you can't rent a week for $1000 six months in advance, why would it rent for $1000 with less than 45 days to check in.



ecwinch said:


> 2) The sellers on LMR are more active and engaged than those placing ads. I personally have found the ads to be a marginal tool for obtaining rentals



The sellers are more engaged because the time left to rent their week is minimal. When they have 5 or 6 months until check-in, no one is worried. When check in is 3 weeks away it is time to rent it or bank it. That is an ad you check daily



ecwinch said:


> 3) The 45 day and $700 thresholds are arbitrary values, and have little logic supporting their selection. The only meaningful arguments are that $700 has some relation to m/f (getting more tenuous each yr), and that 45 days is what RCI uses for their Last Minute specials



If you don't make rules LMR is simply another rental site with no real advantage for owners or renters. 45 days or less until check in is a good guideline for LMR, and thanks to RCI many people equate 45 days as time to get a bargain. $700 is a good number because it is $100 a night which is slightly higher than a motel. RCI will offer a week for rent on Extra Vacations for $1200 to $3000. If that same week hasn't rented at the 45 day mark it rents for $249 or less on last call. RCI knows it is time to lower the price so they don't get stuck with the week just like us realistic owners know too. There is not a renter planning a last minute rental who cares how much the MF's are, they only care about how cheap they can rent it.



ecwinch said:


> I hope someday there will be enough owners who recognize that LMR could be a much more effective outlet for owners to help each other if we made the guidelines a little bit more flexible and rooted in the real world.



 Everyone wants to make money renting their weeks, but in reality some weeks will rent for a profit, some will rent for a loss, and some won't rent at all. The closer the time comes to check in , the less any week is worth. If you change the mandatory low priced LMR rentals, you will kill the reason most renters consider renting last minute.

Sorry Eric. I usually agree with you, but just not on this one.

Tom


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## TUGBrian (May 20, 2009)

the marketplace gets far more views than the LMR section here.


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## tombo (May 20, 2009)

TUGBrian said:


> the marketplace gets far more views than the LMR section here.




I stand corrected. Since that is the case there is even more reason for people to list all rental weeks on the marketplace that they refuse to rent for less than $700, and they should keep them listed for rent on the TUG marketplace until the check in date. That way everyone will be happy.


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## LLW (May 20, 2009)

tombo said:


> Because there are rarely any realistic rental or resale prices on the marketplace. The owner's asking prices for rentals and resales on TUG market place are usually ridiculously high. This is why not many people shop on the Market place. Listings at $700 or less is why there is considerably more views on LMR. To have $1000 or more rentals with less than 45 days to plan the trip would be a waste and reduce the number of views of LMR ads because of all of the high dollar asking prices. If you can't rent a week for $1000 six months in advance, why would it rent for $1000 with less than 45 days to check in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree with Tom on every count. I think if the price limit goes to $1,000,

1. There will be fewer viewers, as more prices will be above $700, and the casual renter who may rent because of the low price will not even look.

2. A lower % of LMR offerings will get rented, and fewer sellers will use LMR because of frequent failure to rent, causing a death spiral for LMR and loss for sellers who have to rent in the last minute.

3. Many sellers who truly don't mind to rent at a lower price would get crowded out in the higher number of threads, in addition to having fewer viewers, and more intervals would sit empty. This would be a disservice to timeshares in general, while trying to provide more service to owners of the occasional higher end week, which actually should not be left to be rented in LMR.


JMHO.


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## JonathanIT (May 21, 2009)

[Note: I was having computer problems earlier today and could not post this.  There has been some discussion on these same points since then, but I thought I would post it anyway]



ecwinch said:


> The discussion always ignores
> 1) LMR gets a significantly more views than marketplace ads
> 2) The sellers on LMR are more active and engaged than those placing ads. I personally have found the ads to be a marginal tool for obtaining rentals


The reason that 1) & 2) are true are precisely the the same two things you want to change: first and foremost because of the extremely low ($700) maximum rental asked (people are constantly looking for bargains) and also the 45 day window: people visiting these boards are looking for rentals to use right away.  The ads get extra attention because of the short window of opportunity; renters know that there is little time left so they check often for replies, and respond to ads quicker.  Changing these two would simply change the reason for the LMR forum's existence.


> 3) The 45 day and $700 thresholds are arbitrary values, and have little logic supporting their selection. The only meaningful arguments are that $700 has some relation to m/f (getting more tenuous each yr), and that 45 days is what RCI uses for their Last Minute specials


I'm not a member of RCI, so I equate these boards with what I'm more familiar with: HGVC Open Season.  There, the window is only 30 days forward, so from my POV, the LMR board here is already giving an extra two weeks.  It's called "*Last Minute* Rentals" for a reason.   

I strongly disagree with the whole argument that the window for allowable dates should be changed to allow for re-deposit or to give the renters "enough time" to do something else with the rentals offered.  The way I see it, this is a sort of "last chance" place where you can attempt to rent a property because there are no other options.  That is the whole point, that there are no alternatives left so that is why it's a great deal.  And that is why there is so much more traffic in that forum.

I think to change these rules "arbitrarily" would be to kill the formula that makes the forum popular to begin with.

I'm sorry if your ("you" in a general sense, I am not addressing any individual member) rental ad isn't getting much traffic in the regular classified ad section... but changing the rules to allow it in LMR will just kill the point of that forum, and the way I see it,  the extra viewing traffic that it gets as well.


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## geekette (May 21, 2009)

tschwa2 said:


> I guess I expected everybody to be honest and "play by the rules" whatever they maybe.  Also other TUGers call people out all the time without having to rely on the moderators everytime.  Members and guests have a lot of different TS and seem very knowledgable about the appropriate MF for properties.  If a few members and guests "get away with" posting for slightly more than there MF's sometimes so be it; but if the boards get clogged with tons of garbage than it can get changed back and at least we can say we tried it and it didn't work.  I don't think going up to $1000 or out to 60 days would do any harm as long as everyone "plays by the rules" and can give TUGers a bargain if they were unable to rent at other outlets.  And even at $1000 some people will be taking substantial losses but at least it will be less of a loss than having to post it at $700.



I agree with you on many counts.  And thank you for continuing to post - see, nothing to be scared of!!!

I believe most 'true' Tuggers to be honest and decent, but we get new people every day who may think "who's gonna know?"  So while it could be a long-timer calling them out, some are shy and will hit the problem post icon, which will get a moderator involved.  Is that a big deal?  I honestly don't know, those that do the work would have to answer that.


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## AwayWeGo (May 21, 2009)

*Recommendations From Uncle Alan.*

1.  Leave it at 45 days before check-in -- same as RCI _Instant Exchange. _

2.  Stick with $100 per night as the top rate.  There's a recession going on. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## icydog (May 21, 2009)

Change is hard, and it is scary, but change, for the most part, can be a good thing. I didn't want to start a revolution..I just wanted to keep the LMR board up to date with current costs. That's all.


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## barndweller (May 21, 2009)

I always thought LMR board had little to do with costs or MF or money in general but was a FREE place for people to offer something that would otherwise go unused to fellow TUGGERS while trying to recover at least a portion of their expenses. Inflation, recession, rising MF, none of that is relevant in my opinion. People who regularly choose to rent out their units have plenty of other avenues for their purposes. To allow rentees to run their business free on LMR would annoy the heck out of me. If anyone is that adamant about getting enough to cover all their expenses they are better served using rental sites that have no limits. In the current economy, they may need to rethink whether owning just to rent it out still works for them. My vote (if there was one taken ) would be to  leave the LMR as is. It functions just fine for the purpose it was intended.


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## Kay H (May 21, 2009)

Well stated.  I agree.






barndweller said:


> I always thought LMR board had little to do with costs or MF or money in general but was a FREE place for people to offer something that would otherwise go unused to fellow TUGGERS while trying to recover at least a portion of their expenses. Inflation, recession, rising MF, none of that is relevant in my opinion. People who regularly choose to rent out their units have plenty of other avenues for their purposes. To allow rentees to run their business free on LMR would annoy the heck out of me. If anyone is that adamant about getting enough to cover all their expenses they are better served using rental sites that have no limits. In the current economy, they may need to rethink whether owning just to rent it out still works for them. My vote (if there was one taken ) would be to  leave the LMR as is. It functions just fine for the purpose it was intended.


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## Egret1986 (May 21, 2009)

*We're voting!?!!!  Okay!  Leave it with its current parameters!*



barndweller said:


> If anyone is that adamant about getting enough to cover all their expenses they are better served using rental sites that have no limits. In the current economy, they may need to rethink whether owning just to rent it out still works for them. My vote (if there was one taken ) would be to  leave the LMR as is. It functions just fine for the purpose it was intended.



I believe it works well as is and, as stated, there is another area and other sites for posting ads for ANY price.


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## gmarine (May 21, 2009)

icydog said:


> Change is hard, and it is scary, but change, for the most part, can be a good thing. I didn't want to start a revolution..I just wanted to keep the LMR board up to date with current costs. That's all.



One thing to keep in mind is that just because maintenance fees rise, it doesnt mean that timeshare units will command more for rent. Renters dont base the price they will pay on how much an owners fees are. They base it on, among other things,how much they can afford.

Most timeshares maintenance fees have risen on the past year yet rental prices are down.


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## Makai Guy (May 21, 2009)

We go round and round about this every several months.  The *very first reply to this thread*, was from John Chase (timeos2), who is the moderator of LMR.  When the LMR forum was set up, Bill gave John the say-so regarding policy there, and this still applies, as far as I know.  In that post John said: 





> As always if there is a groundswell of support for a higher limit then it can be done. To date based on a very unscientific reading AND the shear number of unused offers there appears to be no need to change the rules.



It is clear there is no such groundswell, as there never is.  I think it's time to stop beating it to death -- at least 'til it inevitably comes up again a few weeks down the line.


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## thinze3 (May 21, 2009)

*I agree!!!*

I think the mods should wait until Marriott Maui Ocean Club rents for $10K per week on the Marketplace before the LMR bargain price of $700 is raised to $800. :ignore:

P.S. - This is my opinion and my opinion only.


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## Elan (May 21, 2009)

The problem is that the proponents of change are referencing the $700 LMR cap to their MF's, when they should be referencing the $700 cap to $0, which is exactly what their week will be worth if it goes unused and unrented.


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## funtime (May 21, 2009)

*It is hard to voice an opinion when the naysayers are so adament!*

I too would like to see the limit raised - at least to $900.  However, every time someone suggests change two or three multiple posters repost again how they like it just the way it is.  No wonder with adament opposition, more people do not post saying they would like to see a change!
I have a Southern California summer unit that I would love to post but can't justify it for $700.  
I like the idea of two posting boards - one for supercheap - $500 or less and the second for $501 to 900 or 1,000.  That way the ones looking for the deal of the century could have their search made easier while others who are just looking for a good - not necessarily a great deal - could post.  I also like the idea of expanding to 60 days out.  One part of being in  a recession is the fact that a lot of TUGGERS are renting this year both owners and renters.  As owners, we need to get those maintenance fees paid!  Loosening up this forum would make it a lot easier.  Funtime


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## tombo (May 21, 2009)

Elan said:


> The problem is that the proponents of change are referencing the $700 LMR cap to their MF's, when they should be referencing the $700 cap to $0, which is exactly what their week will be worth if it goes unused and unrented.



Noooooo, say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!! Those unrented weeks are worth $1000 or more if only LMR didn't limit them to a $700 asking price. Just ask any owner who has tried for months to get more than $700 for their rental but couldn't get a real offer. They will tell you how valuable their unrented weeks are. :hysterical:


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## Nancy (May 21, 2009)

*Leave it as is*

If anyone cares, I say leave it as it is.

Nancy


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## tombo (May 21, 2009)

funtime said:


> I
> I have a Southern California summer unit that I would love to post but can't justify it for $700.




Then post it for rent on every site on the web but LMR because the max you can list a rental for on LMR is $700.


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## easyrider (May 21, 2009)

you can list your weeks for what ever you want in the tug marketplace


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## Timeshare Von (May 22, 2009)

I agree that the LMR at $700 seems to be a fair policy.


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## geekette (May 22, 2009)

funtime said:


> I too would like to see the limit raised - at least to $900.  However, every time someone suggests change two or three multiple posters repost again how they like it just the way it is.  No wonder with adament opposition, more people do not post saying they would like to see a change!



Such is the nature of healthy debate.  

I'm not sure if it's that the Con folks are more prevalent or adamant, or that those that are Pro are just not as large a group.  

But we have visited this topic A LOT and the compelling argument for change has apparently never surfaced.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 22, 2009)

I have not posted previously in this thread (though I often have in other threads).

I see no reason to change.


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## alwysonvac (May 22, 2009)

funtime said:


> I too would like to see the limit raised - at least to $900.  However, every time someone suggests change two or three multiple posters repost again how they like it just the way it is.  No wonder with adament opposition, more people do not post saying they would like to see a change!



Interesting... perhaps a poll for TUG members only would work


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## thinze3 (May 22, 2009)

geekette said:


> Such is the nature of healthy debate.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's that the Con folks are more prevalent or adamant, or that those that are Pro are just not as large a group.
> 
> But we have visited this topic A LOT and the compelling argument for change has apparently never surfaced.



As one of the previous posts states, there are a small handful of Tuggers who will argue with EVERY post that doesn't match his or her opinion. Those same people usually argue with EVERY post when it comes to ROFR. These strong willed posters essentially make it unpleasant for someone to bring in a new idea.

Let's keep the new ideas coming and hope that a single Tugger or two won't try to wear out the new idea all by his or her self.


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## tombo (May 22, 2009)

thinze3 said:


> As one of the previous posts states, there are a small handful of Tuggers who will argue with EVERY post that doesn't match his or her opinion. Those same people usually argue with EVERY post when it comes to ROFR. These strong willed posters essentially make it unpleasant for someone to bring in a new idea.
> 
> Let's keep the new ideas coming and hope that a single Tugger or two won't try to wear out the new idea all by his or her self.




Gee, who could you be talking about?  

If someone posts something I disagree with I do respond with an opposing view. If you feel that my responses are wrong, please feel free to refute them (as many do). I welcome different views and debates on many subjects. If you simply want to say we need to raise the rental amounts on LMR and have no objections by the majority here on TUG who don't want them raised, then I am afraid that you will never get your wish.  Myself and "another TUGGER or two" won't sit idly by allowing LMR's appeal to be diminished by a few who think their weeks are worth more than they can rent them for on other sites, even when listed on the other sites months before they are eligible to list on LMR.

Please feel free to debate, or as you somewhat rudely termed it, "argue" your opposing point.


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## Makai Guy (May 22, 2009)

This is starting to get personal.  It is clear that there is no overwhelming desire to raise the limit, anyhow, so I'm closing this topic.


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## TUGBrian (May 22, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> Can we have add a "Last minute Rental" category under the "FOR RENT ADS" on the TUG MarketPlace? It could have the same criteria (45 days or less into the future) but w/o any rental limits.



Just a quick add here.

We do have a section of the TUG NEWSLETTER that goes out each monday that contains 5 to 10 rentals that are going to expire in the next 30 days.

However I will see what we can do about adding a "last minute" button to the existing rental options to click on when going to the marketplace homepage!


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