# Why dosn't Wyndham sell me something I want?



## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

I bought 426,000 resale Wyndham points about 2 years ago.  We bought Wyndham because we were impressed with our unit at Edisto Beach, which we had exchanged on RCI.  Since buying our points we have been to Sedona, Las Vegas, Steamboat (Presidential), Oceanside Pier, Hotel Galvez and Newport.  We sent our kids to Smokey Mts. and Belle Maison.  All of these resorts have been great with the exception of Newport, which was a little shabby but the location was excellent.  All the reservation and finance employees I have spoken with have been well trained, professional and friendly.  Basically, I love Wyndham.  

As an owner, I generate income for Wyndham. I pay my maintenance fees in advance, often purchase additional items (food, DVDs, clothing, etc.) while at the resorts and make exchange payments to RCI, which is owned by Wyndham. As I see it, they have made their money on the person that I bought resale from.  For whatever reason, that person no longer wants or is able to pay the fees, I took them over, a significant benefit for Wyndham. 
Here’s what I don’t understand.  I appreciate that the company needs to make money and I don’t even mind going to an occasional “Owner’s Update” but instead of treating me like a second-class citizen, why not try to sell me something that I want?  I might be willing to pay something for full benefit, VIP status if the price were reasonable, maybe $2-3 thousand, which is only about what it’s worth. 

It really doesn’t cost them anything to provide VIP to me because the benefits are only marginally valuable..  I often travel off-season and I am flexible. I can often get discounts on the resorts and my points on resale are so cheap that upgrades aren’t really a big deal. 

Upgrading Resale buyers for a fee wouldn't hurt developer sales. I seriously doubt that people who buy from the developer understand the transaction well enough to make a decision based on the fact that they can get VIP status.  Frankly, if prospective buyers really thought enough about it to understood the value of VIP, they probably wouldn’t be buying from the developer. Wyndham will continue to find people who will by directly from the developer but I won’t because I’ve done the math and the product as sold directly from Wyndham is overpriced. Seems to me it’s beneficial to Wyndham to maintain at least some resale value for their points because if they don’t, eventually it will make it increasingly more difficult to sell developer points. Wouldn't it make sense to provide a way to make the points more valuable to resale buyers and make a little income at the same time?


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## am1 (Feb 2, 2011)

So the VIP benefits that are left actually are worth something to VIP owners.  Some resale buyers do pay the current cost of upgrading to VIP.


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## bnoble (Feb 2, 2011)

VIP exists for only one purpose: to use as the response to the sales floor prospect who has heard about resale, and maybe even knows they could save "some" money going that route, but doesn't really understand the details.  "You can only be VIP if you buy from us.  You can't get there through resale."  If you could get there through resale, though, this takes away that particular chunk of smoke-and-mirrors.

What's more, VIP is paid for by the sales arm of the company---the extra housekeeping, transaction costs, and point discounts are covered by sales.  Why would they undercut their own business, and then *pay* for it?

Answer: they wouldn't.

So, forget about this idea of a modest fee to make points eligible.  If it happened at all, it would have happened in the past two years when sales was down.  It didn't, and I don't think it ever will.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

VIP benefits were paid for in that overpriced Developer cost the original buyer paid for - some of the $65,000-70,000 YOU SAVED 2 years ago.

When the original buyer sold them, that "sales perk" they paid for, didn't transfer to you. They knew that at the time of buying and SO DID YOU. You chose to buy without those perks - now they have some value to you because:
You want more vacationing for the $200/monthly MFs you pay via discounts and free upgrades. And you willing to pay a 1X fee equal to less than an additional year of MFs?

I am going to have to SIDE with WYNDHAM on this one. 

You got what you paid for. Be happy.  Or buy more resale points with more MFs to take more vacations.:whoopie:  Or buy from the developer, to get those VIP perks. :ignore: 

Here is a solution: Buy different resort weeks with high TP values and exchange back into Wyndham in the 30-45 day discount TP trading period. Learn a new game.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

I’m not really complaining, nor do I need more points or discounts because I am pretty happy with what I have. Because I travel off season, and plan far ahead I seldom have problems getting the resorts that I want without the 13 month VIP benefit. I’m seriously asking why Wyndham doesn’t try to put together a product to sell to resale owners that would be attractive.  Seems to me that it would make the resale points more valuable, thus making it easier to sell for more than a $1 on ebay.  They would get more income from resale buyers and the cost to Wyndham wouldn’t be significant.  It could be some sort of modified benefit but I’m just saying, they might be able to sell something to a crowd that currently just blows them off at sales presentations.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

TSDiva said:


> ...I seldom have problems getting the resorts that I want without the 13 month VIP benefit...



There is NO VIP benefit involving 13 months ... That reservation priority period at 13 months out is for ALL owners at their HOME RESORT Advance Reservation Period (APR). 

Just an FYI,


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

Unless they have changed the policy, I believe that you get 1 reciprocal advanced reservation as a VIP Gold and 2 per year as Platinum.  Also get Advanced reservation at associate locations.


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 2, 2011)

TSDiva said:


> I’m not really complaining, nor do I need more points or discounts because I am pretty happy with what I have. Because I travel off season, and plan far ahead I seldom have problems getting the resorts that I want without the 13 month VIP benefit. I’m seriously asking why Wyndham doesn’t try to put together a product to sell to resale owners that would be attractive.  Seems to me that it would make the resale points more valuable, thus making it easier to sell for more than a $1 on ebay.  They would get more income from resale buyers and the cost to Wyndham wouldn’t be significant.  It could be some sort of modified benefit but I’m just saying, they might be able to sell something to a crowd that currently just blows them off at sales presentations.



Think of Wyndham like a condo developer. If Wyndham sells their allotment of units what do they care what the resale value of them is as long as they can get their upfront fee. As for adding VIP after the fact, Going back to the Condo analogy, would be like asking a condo developer to put in a pool\wait room\ some other amenity at their cost to increase resale prices that don't benefit them one bit. Since they didn't get the value of selling the benefit on the front end, they don't have a benefit of selling it on the back end.

VIP may have little benefit to you but think about the scenario of the person running a rental business with 1 million points resale that would turn to VIP Plat in your scenario. From Wyndham's perspective the potential loss in revenue from additional services could be in the $7,000-$15,000 range (50% discount @ $10/k, Upgrades @ $10/k, Free reservations and HK, 15 free guest certs @ $99) . So they could make 2 or 3 grand to potentially lose that revenue? It doesn't really make sense for them.

Now I would love to get VIP for my resale points and have been trying to figure out if I can "back door" it with a resale purchase through a trust or an LLC but I can't see Wyndham ever offering it to resale buyers straight up.

Jason


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## learnalot (Feb 2, 2011)

TSDiva said:


> Unless they have changed the policy, I believe that you get 1 reciprocal advanced reservation as a VIP Gold and 2 per year as Platinum.  Also get Advanced reservation at associate locations.



Correct but the Reciprocal ARP is at 11 months out, so the home resort folks still get first crack, then Plat & Gold VIP can have a shot before the 10 month window opens.  The ARP at associate locations is almost entirely theoretical - they have an asterisk for the associate locations that says "based on availability" - it's never actually available!


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

True what you say about the folks who run their points as a business. This could also cause problems for owners as more people who bought points for purpose of profit could reduce availablility to those of us who just like to vacation a lot.  Still, don't you think Wyndham could find something that resale users would be willing to buy?


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

learnalot said:


> Correct but the Reciprocal ARP is at 11 months out, so the home resort folks still get first crack, then Plat & Gold VIP can have a shot before the 10 month window opens.  The ARP at associate locations is almost entirely theoretical - they have an asterisk for the associate locations that says "based on availability" - it's never actually available!



And of course, it's all academic if you don't plan ahead far enough in advance.  It dosn't matter if it's your home resort, if you are VIP gold or Plat if you don't make the reservation.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

Going back to the Condo analogy, would be like asking a condo developer to put in a pool\wait room\ some other amenity at their cost to increase resale prices that don't benefit them one bit. Since they didn't get the value of selling the benefit on the front end, they don't have a benefit of selling it on the back end.

True, but if I were willing to pay some amount to get that extra value and the developer could cover his costs and make money, why wouldn't he do it?


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## timeos2 (Feb 2, 2011)

*VIP the ultimate in scams. But people fall for it!*



vacationhopeful said:


> VIP benefits were paid for in that overpriced Developer cost the original buyer paid for - some of the $65,000-70,000 YOU SAVED 2 years ago.
> 
> When the original buyer sold them, that "sales perk" they paid for, didn't transfer to you. They knew that at the time of buying and SO DID YOU. You chose to buy without those perks - now they have some value to you because:
> You want more vacationing for the $200/monthly MFs you pay via discounts and free upgrades. And you willing to pay a 1X fee equal to less than an additional year of MFs?
> ...



Since the minimum amount of points to get any VIP is 300,000 or roughly $45,000 in non-recoverable purchase cost. How many $.01 or less points and the annual fees could you get for that $45K?  About 20-30 YEARS worth! And that is for the nearly worthless lowest VIP level. Add almost that much again for a higher level that has at least a small value in benefits but now your over 40 years to, if you're lucky, break even!  And that upfront money is gone no matter what. Wyndham could pull the plug on VIP tomorrow and you as a VIP owner have zero recourse. It is a perk - nothing is guaranteed or in writing. It is the ultimate in smoke and mirrors marketing to create a perceived value where there is really none at all.  The only surprising thing is how many otherwise reasonable, thoughtful folk fall for the game.  They pay an outrageous premium to "save" a few points that would cost them a few dollars a year without VIP.  The sales weasels must get a good laugh everyday when they huddle around the egg basket and have a smoke while counting their tens of thousands in sales that could have been had for a few hundred dollars at most.  VIP indeed.  They must love to see them coming.


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## am1 (Feb 2, 2011)

Wyndham does offwe what you want but just not at the price point you want it at.


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## e.bram (Feb 2, 2011)

The way I see it VIP is a benefit provided by the developer not the HOA. It is paid for by the developer(Wyndham) even when the TS is sold out . The HOA does not provide the the perk. Wyndham has it set so  the the obligation fades away as owners sell their TSes and they no longer have income from sales or possibly management if the BOD removes them from that task. a good paradigm.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

TSDiva said:


> but if I were willing to pay some amount to get that extra value and the developer could cover his costs and make money, why wouldn't he do it?



*That cost to your per Wyndham to give that extra is: *
per timesos2 ==>$45,000 for VIP at 300,000 CWA Points

per vacationhopeful ==>$65,000-$70,000 for your 426,000 CWA Points

*They are selling the product and they can set the price.* It is your choice to buy it at the offered price. You chose to buy resale - which does NOT include the VIP perks.

Personally, I would like a nice new 2011 4dr AWD Audi for $5,000 - after all I rode one once and it was nice. That should cover their costs, right? :whoopie:


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

am1 said:


> Wyndham does offwe what you want but just not at the price point you want it at.



I assume that you have to buy some developer points.  Will that transform all your relale points to developer points and thus the VIP stauts.  If so, how many points do thay typically require that you buy? Or do you have to do some sort of trade?


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

TSDiva said:


> I assume that you have to buy some developer points.  Will that transform all your relale points to developer points and thus the VIP stauts.  If so, how many points do thay typically require that you buy? Or do you have to do some sort of trade?



No, Wyndham doesn't _*WASH*_ resale points into developer points. You just have to buy all the points to get VIP, GOLD VIP or PLATIMUM VIP.

But you are falling for the Koolaid ... trust us VIP is a taste. You will want more freebies. Then GOLD VIP - still not enough; still lacking. Then PLATIMUM VIP ... why do you think it is a _MARKETING PERK?_ It is a hook and designed to create that false need to get a bigger, better discount. 

Why do they give BONUS points to almost every purchase these days - to move buyers up to temporary VIP status. It is a TRUE marketing hook.

Just remember, it is Koolaid......:hysterical: :rofl:


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

And let us not forget their biggest marketing ploy ... Presidential Reverse - where one is required to make a 1,000,000 point NEW developer point purchase after you reach Platimum VIP.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> No, Wyndham doesn't _*WASH*_ resale points into developer points. You just have to buy all the points to get VIP, GOLD VIP or PLATIMUM VIP.
> 
> But you are falling for the Koolaid ... trust us VIP is a taste. You will want more freebies. Then GOLD VIP - still not enough; still lacking. Then PLATIMUM VIP ... why do you think it is a _MARKETING PERK?_ It is a hook and designed to create that false need to get a bigger, better discount.
> 
> ...



Don't worry, I'm not buying, just curious as to why they would not find some  way to get more money out of resale owners who are a little more savy than those who buy because it's only "$124 more a month". I've been to those sales presentations. I'm pertty sure that they know when you walk in the door and are resale that you're probably not going to buy developer points without some real benifit so why do they waste their time?


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## bnoble (Feb 2, 2011)

> I’m seriously asking why Wyndham doesn’t try to put together a product to sell to resale owners that would be attractive.


You are hoping for some mythical product where you save money on your travel with VIP perks, but sales makes money selling them to you.  Somehow both of you make money?  I don't see that working.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

Because there are many people who think they are smarter than the TS sales staff. And many resale owners get sold. After all, Wyndham does not keep non-producing salesmen sitting at sales tables with prospects who don't buy. 

And do you make $150,000+ yearly?


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

bnoble said:


> You are hoping for some mythical product where you save money on your travel with VIP perks, but sales makes money selling them to you.  Somehow both of you make money?  I don't see that working.



Well, actually, that's exactly the basis of most good business transactions, both parties benefit.  It's up to Wyndham to figure out what they can sell me that they can make money on and up to me to decide if it's worth the price.  Wyndham sells an excellent product. The resorts are very nice, well managed and worth the MF.  Unfortunately, their business model seems to require overcharging and misinforming customers. Although this has been working for them, the old adage "you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" says to me that their business model may not be sustainable. I actually worry that if they don't get a little more creative, they will get into trouble and not be able to continue to support the excellent product that they do provide.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Because there are many people who think they are smarter than the TS sales staff. And many resale owners get sold. After all, Wyndham does not keep non-producer salesmen sitting at sales tables with prospects who don't buy.
> 
> And do you make $150,000+ yearly?



Let’s just say that my business ventures and investments have been successful, without any deception.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

Let's see: Wyndham is fat, dumb and happy (with all those VIP sales). And you believe that self-insight with zen-like reflection will improve their karma? :rofl: :hysterical: :hysterical: :rofl: 

Or is the saying , "fat, dumb, and stupid"? 

In Wyndham's eyes, their business plan is working A-OK.  And their goal is to sell you on their _ladder sales plan called VIP _- after all, you got lots of money and they want it. Just drink the Koolaid.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Let's see: Wyndham is fat, dumb and happy (with all those VIP sales). And you believe that self-insight with zen-like reflection will improve their karma? :rofl: :hysterical: :hysterical: :rofl:
> 
> Or is the saying , "fat, dumb, and stupid"?



Nope, just saying that they have a satisfied customer base that they could sell to if they designed the right product.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 2, 2011)

And how many owner updates (sales presentations) have you sat through with the Wyndham sales department?

You have mentioned staying at 6 only resorts. From my knowledge of that pool, only Vegas has an aggressive sales force. You should play in their bigger sandboxes, like Skyline Towers or Ocean Walk. I don't waste my vacation time anymore ... for trinkets.

Now, if you go to the HOA meetings at some of the bigger resorts, Wyndham does send the area VP of Sales to those. If you want a sales different policy/policy change, that is the level to court.


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## alexinorlando (Feb 2, 2011)

*I agree with tsdiva*

Tsdiva I actually agree with your view on this topic 100%. Almost every other timeshare developer has some type of re-sale upgrade/re-qualify program in place, Wyndham should too I believe they are losing sales from educated re-sale buyers that love there product and would like to be able to obtain vip at a reasonable cost.  Every time I go down to an owner update I tell them I am willing to upgrade and pay a reasonable upgrade amount if they can take the equity of my 800,000 re-sale points and upgrade me into a new contract with lower Maintenance per 1,000 points and getting me VIP. To mine and the salesman's dismay they can not do this because of wyndham's harsh no re-sale 
Upgrade policy (also for those wondering a great way for you to stump a salesman and his manager in there presentation because as of now there is no way for them to overcome this objection I leave out with my freebies and the sales people frustrated not with me but there own company's policy because they have a willing prospect wanting to buy and nothing to sell me, it's a very funny sight to see.) I know the consensus is VIP is not worth the money and for the amount Wyndham wants it's not but if Wyndham were to give re-sale owners a chance to upgrade there current contracts like every other developer bought contract using the equity from the original contact it might be worth it for a reasonable upgrade amount, especially if you are renting units out and or take a lot of short stay trips and if you need to stretch your points further, plus the perks that come along are nice and not to mention Wyndham would make more money buy being able to make sales to a large ever growing group of educated re-sale owners that most likely would never be able to sell too under current circumstances unless they change this policy.


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## AwayWeGo (Feb 2, 2011)

*Sustainable Is As Sustainable Does.*




TSDiva said:


> Although this has been working for them, the old adage "you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" says to me that their business model may not be sustainable.


They only need to fool most of the people most of the time. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> And how many owner updates (sales presentations) have you sat through with the Wyndham sales department?



Enough to know the drill.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 2, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> No, Wyndham doesn't _*WASH*_ resale points into developer points. You just have to buy all the points to get VIP, GOLD VIP or PLATIMUM VIP.



Mostly true, the exception is if you own in a resort they want a bigger presence in that resort.  It still requires a purchase of a new contract.


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## alexinorlando (Feb 2, 2011)

*For Wyndham sustainable is not there nature*

Wyndham just like most other major company's is all about increasing revenue and profits. Buy allowing re-sale owners a reasonable way to obtain VIP it could open up a whole new revenue source for them which Wyndham is all about. I believe eventually they will allow this in some way.


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## TSDiva (Feb 2, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> They only need to fool most of the people most of the time.
> 
> So it goes.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Cynical but perhaps true.  Still, a smart business doesn’t overlook the opportunity to sell to its customer base.


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 2, 2011)

alexinorlando said:


> Wyndham just like most other major company's is all about increasing revenue and profits. Buy allowing re-sale owners a reasonable way to obtain VIP it could open up a whole new revenue source for them which Wyndham is all about. I believe eventually they will allow this in some way.



They use to allow this. They don't generally make it easier to get benefits they have taken away. What do you think is more profitable, offering some "scrubbing" for like 5K or convince resale and developer owners that they need to buy "real" points for $100/K to get those wonderful VIP benefits. I think from now on we should just refer to VIP Benefits for resale owners as a unicorn.  

Jason


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## Free2Roam (Feb 2, 2011)

alexinorlando said:


> ...I know the consensus is VIP is not worth the money and for the amount Wyndham wants it's not but if Wyndham were to give re-sale owners a chance to upgrade there current contracts like every other developer bought contract using the equity from the original contact it might be worth it for a reasonable upgrade amount, especially if you are renting units out and or take a lot of short stay trips and if you need to stretch your points further, plus the perks that come along are nice and not to mention Wyndham would make more money buy being able to make sales to a large ever growing group of educated re-sale owners that most likely would never be able to sell too under current circumstances unless they change this policy.



Let's say Wyndham does decide to allow resale purchasers to upgrade to VIP for a fee... how much would you be willing to pay for benefits that can be taken away anytime?  I'll bet anything that if they did decide to offer resale upgrades to VIP - the VIP program would look a lot different than it does today.  The discount points and room upgrades are nice, but they're not lifetime VIP guarantees.


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## bnoble (Feb 3, 2011)

Well good luck with that, then.  Maybe your wish will come true.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 3, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> ...Now, if you go to the HOA meetings at some of the bigger resorts, Wyndham does send the area VP of Sales to those. If you want a sales different policy/policy change, that is the level to court.



You really should think of this as a plan to change Wyndham sales, with the head of the beast. But you won't get trinkets. Usually, you can get their business cards. Maybe, they will see the error of their marketing plan.


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## DrBopp (Feb 3, 2011)

FreeIn2010 said:


> Let's say Wyndham does decide to allow resale purchasers to upgrade to VIP for a fee... how much would you be willing to pay for benefits that can be taken away anytime?  I'll bet anything that if they did decide to offer resale upgrades to VIP - the VIP program would look a lot different than it does today.  The discount points and room upgrades are nice, but they're not lifetime VIP guarantees.


 
Maybe they could offer the the benefits for a specified period, 1, 3 ,5 and or 10 years. That way you have the perks until your contract runs out with a chance/opportunuty to renew or not. Sounds like that could be workable.

Gordon


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## Keep Traveling (Feb 3, 2011)

The question really is. How much would you pay. 

I think their minimum number might be 10k (platinum) to join in is that fair.  5k for gold.

I think they offer points plus for 3k are you interested in that 

KT


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 3, 2011)

Keep Traveling said:


> The question really is. How much would you pay.
> 
> I think their minimum number might be 10k (platinum) to join in is that fair.  5k for gold.
> 
> ...



So how do you convince someone that they should pay $50,000 - $100,000 to get those statuses instead of $1 on eBay and $5,000 or $10,000. They can probably make much more money demonizing resales and selling the overpriced points by showing them horror stories and these exclusive programs than to get resale owners already skeptical to buy in at 10 times the rate.  But that does bring me back to my favorite question in an owners update. When I get offered 154k package or something below VIP status for like $15,000 and asking the sales person what the difference in benefits is in that package compared to a $1 resale and the $2,495 PP add-on. Just watching them squirm trying to come up with something is priceless...

Jason


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## DrBopp (Feb 3, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> So how do you convince someone that they should pay $50,000 - $100,000 to get those statuses instead of $1 on eBay and $5,000 or $10,000. They can probably make much more money demonizing resales and selling the overpriced points by showing them horror stories and these exclusive programs than to get resale owners already skeptical to buy in at 10 times the rate.  But that does bring me back to my favorite question in an owners update. When I get offered 154k package or something below VIP status for like $15,000 and asking the sales person what the difference in benefits is in that package compared to a $1 resale and the $2,495 PP add-on. Just watching them squirm trying to come up with something is priceless...
> 
> Jason


I can't wait to get my front row seat to that show!!!!


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## alexinorlando (Feb 3, 2011)

*I would pay 10k*



Keep Traveling said:


> The question really is. How much would you pay.
> 
> I think their minimum number might be 10k (platinum) to join in is that fair.  5k for gold.
> 
> ...



I would pay that (10k) for vip platinum. I have done many calculations I could justify 10k or less for full VIP benifites.


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## alexinorlando (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't know what the stats are, but im sure there is a significint number of re-sale owners in the wyndham system and even at 5k-10k per upgrade if 10,000 resale owners convert at 5k-10k a pop that is $50,000,000-$100,000,000 in sales for wyndham. Not exactly chump change.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 3, 2011)

But if you don't have inventory at the 60 mark, who is going to listen to you new 10,000 unhappy customers. Remember, if you look at the discount and upgrade windows, there is not *NOW* a whole slew of empties to make do.


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## learnalot (Feb 3, 2011)

alexinorlando said:


> I don't know what the stats are, but im sure there is a significint number of re-sale owners in the wyndham system and even at 5k-10k per upgrade if 10,000 resale owners convert at 5k-10k a pop that is $50,000,000-$100,000,000 in sales for wyndham. Not exactly chump change.



But the limited value of VIP would immediately decrease.  The ability to reserve at a points discount inside 60 days and to upgrade if available would disappear for all practical purposes because of the high number of people with privileges.  The privileges are limited and not worth having paid developer pricing for, but people did shell out big bucks for those privileges.  The small number of people who did so is what helps the privileges retain their limited value.  If large amounts of people were able to access these for a nominal fee, it would be a further blow to those who paid top dollar for them.

On the other hand, they *could* sell something like unlimited housekeeping and reservation transactions without really diminishing anyone else's benefits.  They could also sell blocks of guest reservations at a cheaper rate than the individual cost, say 10 for $500 or 15 for $750 - something along those lines.


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## TSDiva (Feb 3, 2011)

learnalot said:


> On the other hand, they *could* sell something like unlimited housekeeping and reservation transactions without really diminishing anyone else's benefits.  They could also sell blocks of guest reservations at a cheaper rate than the individual cost, say 10 for $500 or 15 for $750 - something along those lines.



That’s an interesting idea. Cafeteria benefits.  For example, for me, I don’t see a lot of value in being able to get upgrades or discounts but I would be willing to pay for unlimited guest certificates or reciprocal advance reservations. Also the points credit pool extension and plus partners booking would make my points more valuable to me. I don’t think using points to pay maintenance makes any sense, but if I has a few left over at the end of the year I might deposit them to defray the cost. Having the ability to make the conversion at any time of the year, or even 9 months into the year would be worth something to me. 
I think that Wyndham is missing the boat by not offering something to resale owners, which was my original point. It’s doesn’t have to be VIP per say, just something of value that I would be willing to pay a fair, or even a not quite fair, price for. They could repackage VIP in a way to offer to resale without calling it VIP.  Hey, that would be interesting to have a salesmen say "these benifits ar for resale owners only"


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## TSDiva (Feb 3, 2011)

From my knowledge of that pool, only Vegas has an aggressive sales force. 

Actually, the Las Vegas sales office is where I began thinking about this.  A very nice, young salesman desperately wanted to sell me something and finally offered to upgrade me to VIP (Gold if I adde more realse points)for the minimum purchase of 28,000, about $7,000. At first I said,” too much” but after thinking about it, I decided that the added benefits might be worth the price. Of course, I asked for this offer in writing, which is where things began to unravel so I never was able to buy something from Wyndham.  The salesman did try to give an extra gift certificate but I reminded him that I had already picked it up.


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## TSDiva (Feb 3, 2011)

Keep Traveling said:


> The question really is. How much would you pay.
> 
> I think their minimum number might be 10k (platinum) to join in is that fair.  5k for gold.
> 
> ...



I looked at that option a while back and decided that it wasn't worth the money, to me.


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## dcdowden (Feb 3, 2011)

Just for comparison I know that Starwood will requalify one week of ownership if you spend at least $20K with them buying another week. However resale weeks at many Starwood resorts do not have the ability to exchange within the Starwood Network unless they are requalified. Also you can not convert to Starwood Hotel points unless they are requalified. Since all Wyndham UDI points can be used at any Wyndham location without going through RCI/II all resale buyers already get the biggest advantage in my opinion. Other VIP benefits are nice but not worth the added expense of buying from the developer when resale points are almost free. Nonetheless, I don't understand why Wyndham has not tried to sell the re-qualification tie in deal somehow. Apparently many years ago it was possible at some locations to work that kind of deal.
Doug


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 3, 2011)

dcdowden said:


> Just for comparison I know that Starwood will requalify one week of ownership if you spend at least $20K with them buying another week. However resale weeks at many Starwood resorts do not have the ability to exchange within the Starwood Network unless they are requalified. Also you can not convert to Starwood Hotel points unless they are requalified. Since all Wyndham UDI points can be used at any Wyndham location without going through RCI/II all resale buyers already get the biggest advantage in my opinion. Other VIP benefits are nice but not worth the added expense of buying from the developer when resale points are almost free. Nonetheless, I don't understand why Wyndham has not tried to sell the re-qualification tie in deal somehow. Apparently many years ago it was possible at some locations to work that kind of deal.
> Doug



Doug,

That deal is still offered as long as you don't want it in writing! :hysterical:

Jason


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## rrlongwell (Feb 3, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> Doug,
> 
> That deal is still offered as long as you don't want it in writing! :hysterical:
> 
> Jason



If anyone from Wyndham Vacation Resorts monitors this site offically for the corporation a santioned response would be very interesting to this thread.  Anyone from Wyndham listening?


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> If anyone from Wyndham Vacation Resorts monitors this site offically for the corporation a santioned response would be very interesting to this thread.  Anyone from Wyndham listening?



Honestly, the last time I talked to the corporate office they said there is no possible way to convert Wyndham resales to count towards VIP status. I would tend to believe this since you can't get this in writing. They would have to try and slide it through. Then hope that no one ever finds it.

Jason


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## ronparise (Feb 11, 2011)

I have been asking myself the same question posed here: *Why dosent Wyndham offer  me something that I want?*. I have been looking for some some sort of win/win scenerio and I cant find it. The reason why is now clear to me (after reading this thread) Wyndham really has only one product to sell, and thats condos developed and re-packaged for vacation ownership...All the other stuff is just fluff they offer to make the sale.   Selling me anything else that I might want, dosent help them sell more timeshares....so they dont do it

Here's a question for the original poster... What could Wyndham offer you that you want and would pay for that also will help them move more inventory (or at least not hurt their effort to sell more timeshares at full retail?

(I want guest certificates at a reduced price. I would buy guest certificates in  packages of 5 for $200)

Ron Parise


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## rrlongwell (Feb 11, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I have been asking myself the same question posed here: *Why dosent Wyndham offer  me something that I want?*. ...
> 
> A package of benifits that enhance use.
> 
> ...


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## e.bram (Feb 11, 2011)

OP:
You have to acknowledge that Wyndam pays for the VIP benefits, not the HOA. Wyndham does not want to incur continuing liabilities not being paid for continuously w/o a big score (retail sale of TS) initially.


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## tschwa2 (Feb 11, 2011)

I've always wondered about how the accounting is done for the VIP "perks"- as I am not a wyndham owner.

Is there line items on each HOA for reibursement for news papers and upgrades, and extra housekeeping (token usage)?  Do they breakout nightly usage at each resort for VIP usage that entailed "perks"?  How does wyndham keep track of what they contribute for extra guest fees, etc and do they keep a percentage of the sale price of VIP memberships in an escrow account or do they pay it out of profits in general which includes program fee?  My question basically is how do you know that wyndham isn't making the enrollment at large (through the program fee) and the non vip members (through increasingly high fees for services like guest certificates, reservation fees, and housekeeping which VIP's get at free or at reduced rate) to a larger extent pay for the VIP perks.


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## jjmanthei05 (Feb 11, 2011)

ronparise said:


> (I want guest certificates at a reduced price. I would buy guest certificates in  packages of 5 for $200)
> 
> Ron Parise


We would all take them at this price! the are $99/129 per certificate. Most likely Wyndham would offer the 5 for $450 or something like that. I think this gets back to the problem that was posted. What we think is a good value and what Wyndham thinks they can make money on. The only reason companies sell packages is for you to buy additional stuff and then home a certain percentage of that is never used.

Jason


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## rrlongwell (Feb 11, 2011)

tschwa2 said:


> I've always wondered about how the accounting is done for the VIP "perks"- as I am not a wyndham owner.
> 
> Is there line items on each HOA for reibursement for news papers and upgrades, and extra housekeeping (token usage)?  Do they breakout nightly usage at each resort for VIP usage that entailed "perks"?  How does wyndham keep track of what they contribute for extra guest fees, etc and do they keep a percentage of the sale price of VIP memberships in an escrow account or do they pay it out of profits in general which includes program fee?  My question basically is how do you know that wyndham isn't making the enrollment at large (through the program fee) and the non vip members (through increasingly high fees for services like guest certificates, reservation fees, and housekeeping which VIP's get at free or at reduced rate) to a larger extent pay for the VIP perks.



Not that I have ever seen or heard of.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 11, 2011)

Wonder not ...
*Look at Star Island *- no more free upgrades. Do VIPs still get the infamous free newspaper. It is a not managed by Wyndham property and the management company must have sent Wyndham a bill for the cost of VIP perks. Points discounts are still inplace - but the services (including the midweek clean & tidy, newspaper, bigger units (HKs)) would involve EXTRA costs for the operator/service provider.

And yes, I used to get the unit upgrades there. Not on the computer system 2011.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 11, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Wonder not ...
> *Look at Star Island *- no more free upgrades. Do VIPs still get the infamous free newspaper. It is a not managed by Wyndham property and the management company must have sent Wyndham a bill for the cost of VIP perks. Points discounts are still inplace - but the services (including the midweek clean & tidy, newspaper, bigger units (HKs)) would involve EXTRA costs for the operator/service provider.
> 
> And yes, I used to get the unit upgrades there. Not on the computer system 2011.




HEY!!!!!!!!!  I like the free newspaper.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 11, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> HEY!!!!!!!!!  I like the free newspaper.



Bet with our direct membership purchase, each free newspaper cost us about $25. Also, I think the newspaper will soon disappear totally. National Harbor had the USAToday paper, but no local Sunday paper.

And I like Star Island.


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