# Comparing point systems



## BocaBum99 (May 6, 2007)

I am thinking about doing a detailed comparison of various point systems.  I know several of them very well and most of them only superficially.  I would like some input on what you think might be useful in such an analysis.

What would you like to see in a comparison of various point system options?


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## MULTIZ321 (May 6, 2007)

Boca,

That's an admirable, ambitious project. Not sure if you plan to be all inclusive in your list. Some points program that come to mind are Hyatt, Wyndham/Fairfield,
RCI, Hilton Grand Vacation Club (HGVC), Royal Holiday Club (RHC), Woldmark,
Bluegreen, Club GEO Holiday (I think this is a Canadian Company). If I missed any, I'm sure others will chime in.

I think one parameter that would be useful is suggested guidelines re the minimum point buy-in for the program to be operative. Now, I know there is not agreement among Tuggers on this issue but I still think it would be helpful. Also I know that with the major differences in how the different points programs operate - direct comparisons couldn't be made.  I think others will provide input on what they'd like to see.

Richard


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## CatLovers (May 6, 2007)

Wow!  Good for you - I applaud you for being willing to take this on!  It's a big initiative - I almost resorted to pulling my hair out when I was trying to learn more about *one* point system - SVC!  

I think some of the things people might be interested in would be the obvious - MFs, how many points it takes to pull a single "generic" resort (2-bedroom beach-front for example) for comparision purposes, transaction fees, quality of resorts, etc.

I am only familiar with one point system, so let me know if I can provide any info about SVC.


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## Sandy (May 6, 2007)

Somewhere on TUG there is a chart comparing all or at least most of the point systems. I cannot find it to link here for you, but someone else probably knows exactly where it is and can direct you.


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## MULTIZ321 (May 6, 2007)

Sandy said:


> Somewhere on TUG there is a chart comparing all or at least most of the point systems. I cannot find it to link here for you, but someone else probably knows exactly where it is and can direct you.



Sandy,

I think the "somewhere" you are referring to is in the Advice Section of Tug which can either be accessed from the Tug Home page or on the small red toolbar at the top of the forums page.  When you click on the "Advice" hyperlink  scroll down the page to see the "Clubs and Multiresorts" section.  This will give you information on specific points programs but does not offer an analytical comparison between programs. The list, while reasonably complete, is not all inclusive of the various point programs that are available. 

Richard


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## na2006 (May 7, 2007)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Boca,
> 
> That's an admirable, ambitious project. Not sure if you plan to be all inclusive in your list. Some points program that come to mind are Hyatt, Wyndham/Fairfield,
> RCI, Hilton Grand Vacation Club (HGVC), Royal Holiday Club (RHC), Woldmark,
> Bluegreen, Club GEO Holiday (I think this is a Canadian Company). If I missed any, I'm sure others will chime in.




I would add HHonors & Marriott. 

Thanks

NA


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for the input.  Keep it coming.  I own several point systems myself and I have had the opportunity to take a deep dive on those I own.  What I found is that the way the point system actually worked was different than I originally thought.  But, there is a lot of commonality between point systems.  There are differences as well.  I'm thinking that a fairly robust compare and contrast exercise would be very interesting.

In timesharing, the timeshare you own most often found you.  You got invited to a presentation and bought it on the spot or you went out and bought a resale.   

How often does someone do an analysis ahead of time amongst all the available offering and then goes to find what they want?

The intent would be to have enough information so that a person can make a reasonable decision on what might work best for themselves.

It might be too hard a problem to solve.  But, it should be fun trying.


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## Bill4728 (May 7, 2007)

Possible resorts systems.

Hilton -HGVC
Worldmark- WM
Disney - DVC
Starwood- SVN
Fairfield - FF
Hyatt - HVC
Sunterra - 
Bluegreen-BGVC
Shell Vacation - SVC
Monarch Grand - MGV
Club Intrawest - CI
Raintree- 
Royal Holiday - RHC
_Vacation Internationael - VI _ (added)

These and any others?

Questions we should be asking and comparing.
0. Title and website
1. number of resorts
2. Locations of resorts 
3. Is system a true point based or is it resort based with a point component?
4 Resale situation, does the point membership continue on resale? What doesn't come with resale? ect?
5. Est cost (in cash & points) of a 2 bd during peak seasons vs low season?
6. MF costs
7 Reservation policies (Home resorts, week stays , less than week stays, renting time?) 
8 anything special or weird about system?
_9. Exchange company and how does it exchange(pure points vs deposit a week)_

So to give you some idea of how a summary might look.
Monarch Grand Vacations. - MGV   www.monarchgrandvacations.com

1   9 resorts 
2   most in the SoCal area (2 SoCal coast in Dana point, 2 in Palm springs, 1 in hills outside of San Diego, 1 in Tahoe, 1 in Vegas, 1 in Mountains of S. Utah and new one in Cabo)
3   True point based (but some resort owners are not in MGV but can convert from single deeded resort to MGV for  $2000 fee)
4   MGV charges a $100 fee to transfer memberships and $ 300 to combine.  No difference of any kind buying resale. 
5.  Need 144 pts to reserve a 2 bd during peak season would cost about $3000
( 144 pts cost about $1500 but pts are only sold in 24 months pkg. So, would need to buy 288 pts to vacation annually)
6  MF are determined per point. 144 pt is about $420/yr
7  No home resorts, all stays 7 days or longer can be reserved at 12 months, shorts stays at 9 months. 
8  All pkgs are sold on a 24 month basis. So you get points once every 24 months and can use in anyway you want during the 24 months. Unlike some systems where the resale price is pretty set (like WM at $75/pt) MGV prices is all over the place. But I've seen it at $10/pt enough times to recommend that price.
_9. Reserved week at any of the resorts then deposit with II. _

What do you think?


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## Bill4728 (May 7, 2007)

We could do a thread which each post is a summary. So, to summarize the 13 systems I listed, there would be 13 posts, each with one system.


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## gjw007 (May 7, 2007)

There are some smaller ones as well.  OLCC GoGlobal and Amber Vacation Club spring to mind.  There must be some others as well.


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## Bill4728 (May 7, 2007)

Isn't Go Global just RCI points?


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## Passepartout (May 7, 2007)

I'd like to see Vacations Internationale included in the comparison. I know they have about 30 resorts, mostly in the West, with several in Hawaii. Have heard they are well managed by HOA, not developers, and do draw several bids when they appear on e-bay, as opposed to some point-based groups that routinely die with no bids.

Thanks

Jim Ricks


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## Floridaski (May 7, 2007)

*Points need to exchange outside system - renting*

Another thought is how many points does the system require to use II or RCI.  For example, with Hyatt I can reserve a Marriott 2 bedroom unit during peak weeks for 1300 points via II.  The same size unit would cost me 2000 to 2200 points to stay at a Hyatt during the same time frame.  

So bottom line, one reason we chose Hyatt is the ability to get "bang for buck"  by staying at similar quality resorts via II during peak periods.  It allows us to use II for high point vaule weeks and then have points left over for our Hyatt family vacations.

I do not know if all systems have this feature, but II does not get many Hyatt deposits.  So, thankfully we get rewarded by II when we do deposit any of our points.


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> Possible resorts systems.
> 
> Hilton -HGVC
> Worldmark- WM
> ...



This is very good.  I'll reserve my opinion until all feedback is in.


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## gjw007 (May 7, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> Isn't Go Global just RCI points?



No.  It appears to be based on RCI Points and follows many of the same type of rules but there are some differences. It is not RCI Points anymore than Fairfield Points or Hilton Points internal exchange points-based systems are RCI Points.  GoGlobal is an internal points exchange program whereas RCI Points is an external exchange system.  GoGlobal could have been set up an internal points system and still have remained a RCI Weeks resort.  For an external exchange, GoGlobal Points must do as Fairfield Points, DVC, and others do and contract the company's points program and announce that they are looking to do an external exchange.  At that point, you are then connected with RCI (II for DVC) and are able to do a RCI Weeks or RCI Points (II for DVC) exchange.


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## PA- (May 7, 2007)

Why limit it to Points systems?  Why not include all the mini-systems and chains, including VROP, ORE/VRI, Aloha, Perrenial, etc.  Also, does Equivest belong on there?


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## Lee B (May 7, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Thanks for the input.  Keep it coming.  I own several point systems myself and I have had the opportunity to take a deep dive on those I own.  What I found is that the way the point system actually worked was different than I originally thought.  But, there is a lot of commonality between point systems.  There are differences as well.  I'm thinking that a fairly robust compare and contrast exercise would be very interesting.
> 
> The intent would be to have enough information so that a person can make a reasonable decision on what might work best for themselves.



You could start by listing the features that matter the most to you and describe their pluses and minuses in the systems that you own.  Co-owners will clarify something you wrote, and owners in different systems will add their knowledge.  Soon the project will have completed itself!   

Lee


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2007)

PA- said:


> Why limit it to Points systems?  Why not include all the mini-systems and chains, including VROP, ORE/VRI, Aloha, Perrenial, etc.  Also, does Equivest belong on there?



That's funny PA, coming from you.

The last time we talked about a project, you were the one telling me that the scope of my ideas were too big.  

The problem has to be bounded initially.  And then it can expand to more if it is successful.  I just picked points because I've seen a lot of questions over the past two years about "points"

For now, let's keep all the ideas coming and I'll create a proposal that we can all debate.


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## PA- (May 7, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> That's funny PA, coming from you.
> 
> The last time we talked about a project, you were the one telling me that the scope of my ideas were too big.
> 
> ...



Yes, but you see Jim, in this case expanding the scope doesn't cause any additional work for me.


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## BocaBum99 (May 7, 2007)

Lee B said:


> You could start by listing the features that matter the most to you and describe their pluses and minuses in the systems that you own.  Co-owners will clarify something you wrote, and owners in different systems will add their knowledge.  Soon the project will have completed itself!
> 
> Lee



This is a very good idea as an approach.  I'm going to consider that one seriously.


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## "Roger" (May 8, 2007)

To keep the project from getting out of hand to the point that it never gets done, can I suggest that you pick up one of Bill's suggestions and combine it with some others found in this thread.


Put each system into a separate thread.  (That way, you don't have to have everything done before you post.  That will make this an ongoing project as opposed to a one shot deal.)
At the top of each thread, have a quick summary chart containing a set of basics much like what Bill listed (or, what you come up with yourself as Lee suggested).
Below the quick summary chart, there can be a narrative describing the special features of a given system.  That can be used to take care of such things as "You can upgrade to XXX VIP.  That entitles you to..." or "In addition, this system piggybacks upon RCI Points." etc.  (Not good examples, but you get the idea.  Too many of these systems have special features that don't go well into a chart.)
One other note, there are differences between the way in which RCI NA and RCI Europe run the RCI Points system.  I've had good intentions of putting them together in a thread (and might do so this summer), but never have.


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

"Roger" said:


> To keep the project from getting out of hand to the point that it never gets done, can I suggest that you pick up one of Bill's suggestions and combine it with some others found in this thread.
> 
> 
> Put each system into a separate thread.  (That way, you don't have to have everything done before you post.  That will make this an ongoing project as opposed to a one shot deal.)
> ...



This is a really good idea.  I never thought of that.  It will be a way that everyone here can participate.  Okay, let me start the process.  When we get all of the information out, I'll commit to writing a paper on it for the TUG advice section.


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## Bill4728 (May 8, 2007)

We could do a master thread which had a link to each system thread. Kind of like the way DaveM does the Marriott FAQ. He has a master thread then inside of that thread he has links to the answers of each question. Rather than updating the master thread he just updates the other threads. That way in one place you could see all the different systems and if you didn't want to read about one you'd just skip it.


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## Bill4728 (May 8, 2007)

Boca,

We should also update the advice articles in the TUG advice section. I started a thread to ask people to update (or create) an article for the advice section  link 

We could start the point system comparison with a link to the update advice article?


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> We could do a master thread which had a link to each system thread. Kind of like the way DaveM does the Marriott FAQ. He has a master thread then inside of that thread he has links to the answers of each question. Rather than updating the master thread he just updates the other threads. That way in one place you could see all the different systems and if you didn't want to read about one you'd just skip it.



Another fantastic idea.  It seems you have put some significant thought into this process.

If I create a thread on it, can you make it a Sticky?  The biggest benefit is that people can easily find the link to a specific system and the discussion that ensues.

The first thing I need to do is structure the discussion so that we capture all the input without it breaking down into chaos.  I'll think that one through.

Let's keep using this thread to generate more ideas for this project.


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> Boca,
> 
> We should also update the advice articles in the TUG advice section. I started a thread to ask people to update (or create) an article for the advice section  link
> 
> We could start the point system comparison with a link to the update advice article?



That certainly needs to be done.  It's certainly beyond my capacity to contribute.  I like the idea of finding other volunteers to help out.  They can use the source material we generate as content for the articles.


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## Sportsden (May 8, 2007)

*Include y/n for partial week use*

It may have been mentioned and I missed it, but I'd like to know if full week usage is required or whethere one can use for only a few days, and the minimum number. 

(Greatly appreciated your help and dealings Jim. Dennis)


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## Bill4728 (May 8, 2007)

We could set up the info like this one I did for the hotel board.


> Here are the links to the TUG advice page of the different Hotel Associated Timeshares
> 
> Hilton -  Hilton Grand Vacations Club  HGVC  HGVC
> 
> ...


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## Bill4728 (May 9, 2007)

I've been thinking a little more about this. First we should seperate those systems which are pure points vs those which are deeded resorts with point backup. 


*Pure Point *systems like WM, CI, VI & MGV, are ones which you buy points, not a deeded property. (Like buying stock in a company.) They are often called club memberships.  Although the company owns the resorts, you own only points. In these systems, you have no home resorts and everyone in the system can reserve any resort at the maximum reservation period. These pure point systems are fully transferable on resale, but have a fee for transfering the memberships.


Then there are the *deeded resorts *with point backup. Systems like HGVC, Hyatt, Sunterra, FF, Shell, Disney, Starwood and others. These systems you buy a deeded week at a resort managed by the company. Then you can reserve your home resort week before anyone else in the system gets a shot at it. If you want to go to another resort you are given so many points by the system based on the resort, size of unit and season you own.  But at some point, anyone in the system can use their points to reserve at the others resorts in the system. In these systems, the deeded weeks are the only thing which is bought resale. The points and the ability to use points in the system vary greatly. 

Some like HGVC, Disney, FF or Hyatt, have ability to use points is available in all resales. 

Other systems, like Sunterra or Starwood have significant restrictions on the use of points purchased resale.


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## BocaBum99 (May 9, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> I've been thinking a little more about this. First we should seperate those systems which are pure points vs those which are deeded resorts with point backup.
> 
> 
> *Pure Point *systems like WM, CI, VI & MGV, are ones which you buy points, not a deeded property. (Like buying stock in a company.) They are often called club memberships.  Although the company owns the resorts, you own only points. In these systems, you have no home resorts and everyone in the system can reserve any resort at the maximum reservation period. These pure point systems are fully transferable on resale, but have a fee for transfering the memberships.
> ...



I agree.  And, it's these distinctions that owners have not fully understood when they got into it.  I'm thinking a pros and cons analysis for topics such as these would be helpful.  There were real trade offs that owners get from the choices the developers made.  As an example, WorldMark are points based on an aggregate of resort intervals.  That created tremendous simplicity.  But, it opened owners up to great risk of ownership dilution should the developer make bad choices.  This already may be too detailed for most, but it is an important distinction and a key issue for people who like attributes of fixed weeks.

The other issue is we don't want to make it so complex that it becomes meaningless.  We need to choose the right level of depth for the analysis to be meaningful for the largest audience possible.


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## sage (May 10, 2007)

*Points Systems Down Under*

In Oz the points systems that I know of are:
APVC (Accor Premiere Vacation Club)
Worldmark/Trendwest 
Holiday Club

You could add those to your list.


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## Cathyb (May 11, 2007)

BocaBum:  Thank you for taking this on!  I have been studying Hilton's and an important element I would like in your analysis is when one can reserve other resorts in their Program (that is, other than their own resort).  Example (as I understand it):  In Hilton the soonest you can request another Hilton resort is nine months out; in Starwood it is eight months out.


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## somerville (May 11, 2007)

PA- said:


> ...  Also, does Equivest belong on there?


In a different thread, they said they weren't interested in Equivest.


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## kenojg (May 11, 2007)

This would be great... we have just lost our timeshares in Florida, and are wanting to get back in...   I really need to learn a bit about point systems, because just as you described , I would like to migrate toward the one that would work best for us, rather than have one find me.  I had intended to look around here for articles on points.

we live in the mountains of Va , still belong to RCI, and like to go to drivable areas, (eastern and some central USA)(like FL, NC,Hilton Head, MI)  we really enjoy the short notice bargains around and rarely want to travel during the prime , crowed, school out season, ... hearing a lot about BG and FF.. does this sound right, any ideas, any tutor type point discussions around?

Thanks , luck , and maybe I can help in future..  

John 
JohnfromVa@cox.net


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## BocaBum99 (May 11, 2007)

Great ideas guys.  I'm working on a structure.  It's coming soon for comment.


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## GregGH (May 11, 2007)

Hello Boca

I posted a reply to the spin off thread  from the topic you started -- fyi

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=330673#post330673

The advice pages are never up to date -- a wiki as I plead for in the other thread will solve this ( well - once we get a few more to understand the power of Wiki's )

like these
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_farms
http://wikitravel.org/en/Main_Page

or smbrannan's ( I think ) start at growing one 
http://clubintrawest.pbwiki.com/

Remember --- wiki's stay up to date as everyone is an editor if they want to be

What a way to keep this data up to date ....

Regards

Greg H ( one big wiki fan )


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## smbrannan (May 11, 2007)

I agree with GregGH - wikis are the way to go.

S


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## cruisin (May 11, 2007)

One thing I would like to know is cancellation policies, and web access. I know with WM it is very easy to book and cancel and if you cancel 1 day before and somebody picks it up, you keep all your credits. Thanks


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## Carl D (May 12, 2007)

Although DVC may be an exceptional point system, I wouldn't include them in your comparo. DVC is a specialty timeshare, and doesn't really fit in with the typical timeshare purchase.

Now if you ever opt to do a Disney area comparo, points or otherwise, DVC should be in the mix.


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## BocaBum99 (May 12, 2007)

Carl D said:


> Although DVC may be an exceptional point system, I wouldn't include them in your comparo. DVC is a specialty timeshare, and doesn't really fit in with the typical timeshare purchase.
> 
> Now if you ever opt to do a Disney area comparo, points or otherwise, DVC should be in the mix.



I disagree.


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## Carl D (May 12, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> I disagree.


Somehow I figured you would.


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## Bill4728 (Feb 5, 2008)

We never really moved ahead with this but we still could.

What do you think?


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## TUGBrian (Feb 7, 2008)

since a wiki option is not available....

what if I created a review page for each of these programs.

then in lieu of creating reviews...you could post the information in review format just as you would a review?

I would of course make these links public vs member only.

at least it would provide something for you all to collaborate publicly on and wouldnt require a separate login system.

could also post reviews/complaints/feedback etc just like any other resort..but it would specifically be for the points program itself.


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