# Resale disadvantages?



## kd172005 (Jun 18, 2013)

I have recently completed a discovery package with Wyndham. I am wanting to gain some info are the cons of buying a resale points timeshare. What benefits does one lose by buying resale for much cheaper? Do you still receive housekeeping credits? Any and all info will be appreciated.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 18, 2013)

Resale points do NOT count towards any VIP level.

Yes, you get the same HKs and RTs as associated with a developer purchase.

You get 1 free GC for each member number. Not one for each contract yoou purchase.

You get a "free" RCI account usable thru the Wyndham portal into RCI.


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## kd172005 (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. I am new to this, so what are rt`s?


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 18, 2013)

Reservation transactions. Good for one calendar day for all the transactions you can make. Get 1 for each 77K of points in your member number. I think it is $30 for each additional one. Needed for making a reservations. Adding a Guest Certificate. Banking into RCI. Credit pooling points.


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## markb53 (Jun 18, 2013)

Reservation transactions (RT) cost $30. It putting points in the credit pool that costs $39.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 18, 2013)

You do not lose any deeded benefits  buying resale.. Sales incentives such as VIP  and Plus Partners are at Sales whim.

I have never seen any  non-salesman  calculation  that  could justify  buying from Developer!

Best case Silver VIP  might be able to" save" $500-$600 a year but prepaying $60K + upfront is wasting money.

ALL  l UDI owners pay at least $108 POA  fee  which includes "free" RCI membership.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 18, 2013)

I big benefit is keeping your $$ in you own pocket, instead of lining Wyndham's.

Resale is the way to go, it is a fraction of the cost.  No saving in VIP is worth paying for from Wyndham.


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## JimMIA (Jun 18, 2013)

The big disadvantage to buying resale is you do not have a major financial stake in Wyndham. 

If you buy direct, there is basically no limit to how much you can spend.  Some people like to brag about what this costs, what that costs, etc.  They are happier buying direct. 

You don't get that if you purchase resale.  You just get nice vacations at a reasonable price. 

Tough choice!


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## Rent_Share (Jun 18, 2013)

It's a disadvantage to Wyndham, they don't get to sell you something for thousands today, that is worth pennies tomorrow and they could care less about your loss, only their profit.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 18, 2013)

*Cost Of Try-Before-You-Buy "Discovery" Package Offer Was Higher Than Resale Timeshare*




kd172005 said:


> Any and all info will be appreciated.


At various times we got "try before you buy" offers from Wyndham & Diamond -- said _No Thanks_ mainly for 2 reasons *. . . *

First, no way were we ever going to buy any of their full-freight timeshares so Try Before We Buy was a non-starter.

Second, the cost of the discovery package was more than we paid for some of our resale timeshares.  

The most we ever paid for a timeshare is $3*,*500 (2002) -- bought it resale & resold it in 2003 for the same amount. 

In 2003 we bought another resale timeshare for $1*,*925 (eBay).  

In 2005 we bought a dinky points timeshare for $152*.*52 (eBay). 

In 2006 we bought a biennial 3BR lock-off floating-weeks unit for $500 (direct from private seller).

We bought more points timeshares a few years later (eBay) in the $150-$200 range.  We also accepted a free points timeshare (TUG-BBS giveaway offer). 

We have paid lots more in maintenance fees over the years than we have paid to purchase timeshares.  

We have also taken advantage of RCI _Last Call_ & _Instant Exchange_ & sale priced _Extra Vacation Getaway_ offers. 

In essence, timesharing via resale has made it possible for us to enjoy luxury vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

_Full Disclosure*:*_  After a few years, we resold or gave away most of the timeshares we bought resale.  All we have left are the biennial unit we bought in 2006 & a triennial points unit we bought in 2011 or so.  The 2 of those together don't add up to a whole every-year unit.  Who'd a-thunk?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## uscav8r (Jun 18, 2013)

One trick with RTs is that an unlimited amount of RTs can be used within the same day, but only "cost" 1 of your annual allocation.


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## kd172005 (Jun 18, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies and messages. I am still a little uncertain on the RTs? If you want to make a reservation after the first day you made one, then you have to pay $30 each day you make a reservation?


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## jjmanthei05 (Jun 19, 2013)

Think of reservation transactions as days you can make reservations. You get 1 reservation transaction for every 77,000 points you own whether purchased retail or resale. So if buy 154,000 points, you get 2 reservation transactions. So you get 2 free days to book rooms. After that each day costs you $30 but you can make as many reservations within a single day as you want to. 

To answer your original question, if you are planning on purchasing less than 400,000 points (which is most people) the only difference is plus partners which can be added for $2,495 onto a resale account with no retail purchase. So take a look at what 300,000 points cost retail ($40,000+) vs 300,000 resale + plus partners ($1 - $1000 + $2,495) and make your decision. 

Jason


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## kd172005 (Jun 19, 2013)

What is plus partners?


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## ronparise (Jun 19, 2013)

kd172005 said:


> What is plus partners?



What Plus partners is, doesnt matter to the answer of your original question. 

As Jason said it comes with a developer purchase  but not with a resale purchase  but can be added for $2500

I dont have plus partners, and I dont know what it is. What I do know is that its not worth paying $35000+ for


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 19, 2013)

PP allows the Wyndham owner to book nightly stays thru RCI - basicly access to the RCI Points inventory. Rental car discounts and hotel stay discounts. TRULY not worth the paper it is printed on. 

Plus, for that option YOU PAY 2 cents MORE for your CWP fee for every 1,000 points you own.

Even if you don't ever use it.


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## lily28 (Jun 19, 2013)

If I add a guest certificate online, do I use up one reservation credit?


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## markb53 (Jun 19, 2013)

Just for yuks I called club Wyndham travel and asked the point cost of going to the Parc 55 in San Francisco using points, since I have plus partners. I know, I purchased from Wyndham before I found TUG.

2 night minimum, 92,500 points for the two nights. Using CWA maintenance fee as an average that comes to $256. Per night. Since you can book a night for $150 - $180 online. It is not a good use of your points.  Air fares are even worse, last I checked. 

Even the RCI nightly stays are pretty marginal. I found a 1 night stay in Monterey CA which is fairly near me for 15,100 points. But then you have to to pay the $49 RCI fee.  In total not that good a deal. Certainly not worth a developer purchase or buying it for $2500. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jjmanthei05 (Jun 19, 2013)

I agree. PP is worth little to nothing since wyndham came out with their grid for RCI. Before in the days of 28k deposits, the only real way to get into DVC through wyndham points was PP but now you can get there through a standard account.

Next time you are in a sales presentation, print out an ebay ad for less than 400,000 points at the resort you are staying at and then ask your sales guy what the difference is of buying through him vs getting this contract with the $2,500 add on. He\she wont be able to give you one (telling the truth anyway). 


Jason


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## kd172005 (Jun 19, 2013)

Thank you all for all your help. I see I have a lot to learn and research to see if buying a timeshare is worth it or not. I feel we will need 154000 points which will cost us 800+ in maintenance fees each year. I guess that would save me money as it would cost more than that for some week stay at the beach for most resorts, but do not if it is worth being bound to the fees from now on. How easy is it to get rid of the timeshare if I decide later that we will not use it enough? 

Also, how easy is it to make reservations and rent it? Is there money to be made after paying maintenance fees? Can you make enough to pay your fees plus have points left to use for free?


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## ronparise (Jun 19, 2013)

lily28 said:


> If I add a guest certificate online, do I use up one reservation credit?



No reservations credit but it does cost $99


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## ronparise (Jun 19, 2013)

kd172005 said:


> Thank you all for all your help. I see I have a lot to learn and research to see if buying a timeshare is worth it or not. I feel we will need 154000 points which will cost us 800+ in maintenance fees each year. I guess that would save me money as it would cost more than that for some week stay at the beach for most resorts, but do not if it is worth being bound to the fees from now on. How easy is it to get rid of the timeshare if I decide later that we will not use it enough?
> 
> Also, how easy is it to make reservations and rent it? Is there money to be made after paying maintenance fees? Can you make enough to pay your fees plus have points left to use for free?




I started renting reservations with the idea that I could rent half to three quarters of my points and make enough to pay the maintenance fees on all of it, thereby getting one or two free vacations a year. I did that and found it easy enough, however, I am a licensed real estate agent with years of experience renting properties. ....To bring back double your maintenance fees plus cover a guest certificate and  perhaps a reservation credit you need to be making reservations for high demand times at low supply locations.  I call these "special weeks in special places".  And to get these reservations you need to be lucky at about 20 days ahead of check in and pick up a cancellation or make your reservation months and months in advance. which ties up your money for about a year

How easy is it to sell a timeshare depends on the timeshare. In the Wyndham system, something with maintenance fees under about $5.50/1000 points  has a ready market


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## kd172005 (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks ron , you have answered a lot of questions for me. What about the program fee I read about in one of the articles on here. Is that included in the maintenance fees or is that a separate fee?


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## timeos2 (Jun 19, 2013)

kd172005 said:


> Thank you all for all your help. I see I have a lot to learn and research to see if buying a timeshare is worth it or not. I feel we will need 154000 points which will cost us 800+ in maintenance fees each year. I guess that would save me money as it would cost more than that for some week stay at the beach for most resorts, but do not if it is worth being bound to the fees from now on. How easy is it to get rid of the timeshare if I decide later that we will not use it enough?
> 
> Also, how easy is it to make reservations and rent it? Is there money to be made after paying maintenance fees? Can you make enough to pay your fees plus have points left to use for free?



The beauty is if you pay nearly nothing to buy in then you can sell for nearly nothing and not get hurt. Plus you aren't tying up a bunch of capital for as long as you own with the possibility that you may get it back when you sell (and regardless of brand name or what those owners "think" their ownership is worth it is never easy to sell and even tougher to get what you think it's "worth".  

We had no problems making reservations exactly where / when we wanted over 20 years of owning Wyndham but it is harder to pick times to rent as whatever you pick seems to be off by a day or week to what your potential renter wants.  Unless you snag some really great times and locations it is hard to make much over your fees renting. Plus if all you do is pay your fees by using your points what are you gaining? With a relatively small account it's unusual to have enough points to reserve a top renter & have enough points left for a good vacation for your family. If you have more points it's easier but then your fees are higher, you need more rent and the cycle starts all over. Most people are better off buying to use. Rent only if you need to for a given year or an occasional out of Wyndham stay.


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## webkrawlerr (Jun 20, 2013)

We have about 630k points (UDI) that we have paid probably about $2200.00 for.

Imagine paying retail for that many points.

If the time comes where we no longer want the points, I have no problem selling them for as cheap or even giving the points away if I need to. I'll be out $2200.00 at the most.

We have had our points for 3 years going on 4. We also have a fixed week we paid nothing for (although we have to pay the yearly maintenance fees on it).
If you are curious why we got the fixed week, its near where my daughters live but it's incredibly difficult to get points available there because most owners have not converted to points. So, to be sure we can vacation there, we got the fixed week.

Our main investment each year is in the maintenance fees. But, the several years that we traveled before we bought the points and the fixed week, we were spending about as much on hotel rooms. Why not have a resort for the same price. 

No downside here. We really enjoy our Wyndham re-sale points.


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## timeos2 (Jun 20, 2013)

webkrawlerr said:


> No downside here. We really enjoy our Wyndham re-sale points.



Resale Wyndham Points are one of the truly great values in all of timeshare. Not as good as they were 5 years ago due to system changes imposed by Wyndham but still a true bargain for an outstanding system.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 20, 2013)

webkrawlerr said:


> We have about 630k points (UDI) that we have paid probably about $2200.00 for.
> 
> Imagine paying retail for that many points.
> 
> ...



Fully agree as to the benefits of owning Wyndham timeshares - both as in a Points system and with a Fixed Week. I own both also, for the very same reasons - esp my Fixed Weeks - limited availability at PRIME times.

I have used my points for both my personal vacations, for group vacations with my siblings and their spouses, for trips with the next generations (in my case, my nieces and nephews), as gifts for my siblings with their spouses, and with friends. And I rent some of my reserved time to afford the MFs. 

But as ANYONE who participates on TUG has learned, YOU must LEARN the timeshare system INs and OUTs. You really need to PLAN AHEAD! You must stay flexible and learn NEW ways as the TS world changes and as YOUR family vacationing style also changes.


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## Lisa P (Jun 20, 2013)

markb53 said:


> plus partners... is not a good use of your points.
> 
> Even the RCI nightly stays are pretty marginal. I found a 1 night stay in Monterey CA which is fairly near me for 15,100 points. But then you have to to pay the $49 RCI fee.  In total not that good a deal. Certainly not worth a developer purchase or buying it for $2500.


We found the same thing when researching whether to upgrade our points to Plus Partners.  On top of the points used and the RCI fee, some nightly stays incur housekeeping fees.  Paying cash directly to hotels and resorts is often a better deal and sometimes those have nice packages or discounts as well.

That said, we LOVE our resale Wyndham points!  They've provided for several wonderful vacations each year, in much better accommodations than we would had for the same cost, for ~15 years now.  It's a great fit for us, for how we like to travel and where we've wanted to go!



vacationhopeful said:


> But as ANYONE who participates on TUG has learned, YOU must LEARN the timeshare system INs and OUTs. You really need to PLAN AHEAD! You must stay flexible and learn NEW ways as the TS world changes and as YOUR family vacationing style also changes.


Classic, solid TUG advice!


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## Bourne (Jun 20, 2013)

As with any other deal, it never does ..


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## webkrawlerr (Jun 20, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> But as ANYONE who participates on TUG has learned, YOU must LEARN the timeshare system INs and OUTs.



But of course. We spent about 6 months researching many of the timeshare options out there, including buying retail and the different timeshare companies.

We even went to a Wyndham resort and told them we were interested in buying into their system (but we did not tell them it would be re-sale) and we spent 3 hours with the sales guy go over all the ins and outs. 

Of course, the most learning comes from doing and we have learned even more in the last 3 years of having and using the points. But, we had enough information that we believed Wyndham re-sale points would be a good investment for us.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 20, 2013)

webkrawlerr said:


> Of course, the most learning comes from doing and we have learned even more in the last 3 years of having and using the points. But, we had enough information that we believed Wyndham re-sale points would be a good investment for us.



Be careful of using  term  "investment" when referring to Wyndham TS. You are making an investment in future vacations per their  30 Rules of Conduct but incurring a financial liability for MF,  POA fees  and possible   SA as long as you are alive!


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## webkrawlerr (Jun 21, 2013)

True. The investment was in future vacations.

One year we spend $2000.00 just in hotel rooms, tiny rooms
with just a bed, dresser and TV.

If we were going to invest, as in place money into, hotels like that
we might as well be paying it on maintenance fees. 

The benefits would be, we would be making payments all year
and it would be easier to manage the vacations that way, and
we have a resort room with a kitchen and other amenities. 

It made sense to us as we love to travel.


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## PHXwyndham (Jun 24, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Resale points do NOT count towards any VIP level.
> 
> Yes, you get the same HKs and RTs as associated with a developer purchase.
> 
> ...




Hello,

I have been reading this forum for years, but I was just reading the comments.  I finally decided to pull the trigger and register.  I would like to share my TS experiences as well...  

I entered the Wyndham world by renting a week in Vegas and after that I decided to buy points on Ebay... Everything I own is resale and I find interesting that some people here get access to the RCI portal via the Wyndham site I get an error when I click on that.  

I called for help and she told me that in order to have access to that I have to be VIP and that the only way I can do RCI exchanges is through the phone... I don't know if this is true, but Wyndham is known for lying to people.

Maybe I need to call again?  any advice...


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## markb53 (Jun 24, 2013)

You didn't mention if you could log into your RCI account at RCI.com I am assuming not. When I first got my account (I'm not VIP either) I had to call,probably 10 - 12 times before I got my account working. I would start with RCI and see if they know anything about you. If they do have a record of your membership, get your membership number. Then you can log into RCI.com directly and get access to Last Calls and extra vacation without going through the portal. Then I would call RCI portal support people and tell them the portal is not working. They will probably blame it on Wyndham. Then you call Wyndham owner care and tell them the portal is not working. They will probably blame RCI. 

Mine was doing the same thing as yours when I first got my account. It took 2 weeks and a lot of phone calls to get it working. One bit of advice. DON'T get upset with them. Be sickeningly sweet.  The phone support, especially the Wyndham phone support can be very chatty. Be chatty back. If they want to talk about the great places you have gone. Talk about the great places you have have been or plan to go. You NEED them to WANT to help you. If you get someone who seem impatient or in a hurry. Thank them. Hang up and call back. Be patient. You will eventually get someone that will transfer you to someone, who will fix the problem. 

Good luck

Mark


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 24, 2013)

Yes, it can take EXTREMELY LONGTIME to get your RCI account set up on a resale account. Sometimes years!

Mark has it totally down - sweet as pie with sugar on top. The sales staff is totally clueless on RCI accounts - their top manager has a bigger clue - but he/she gets a bigger paycheck and has no interest in spending their time to help a resale owner out.


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## timeos2 (Jun 24, 2013)

PHXwyndham said:


> I called for help and she told me that in order to have access to that I have to be VIP and that the only way I can do RCI exchanges is through the phone... I don't know if this is true, but Wyndham is known for lying to people.
> 
> Maybe I need to call again?  any advice...



Yes, contact them again (and again and again if the standard process occurs).  You absolutely do not have to be VIP for the RCI access - every Wyndham owner is forced to have an RCI account (you pay for it in your fees). VIP is a costly sales gimmick - ignore anything and everything you may hear about it as today the cost to obtain it, and the fact that it cannot be sold/transferred, makes it extremely expensive to acquire. Costs you would never recover with the non-guaranteed perks it offers. 

Dealing with Wyndham "customer service" can be extremely frustrating as they never seem to get things right (a major problem with our account - the NAME was wrong! - took us over 10 years to get corrected. I cannot tell you how many times we heard "that's silly - we'll get that taken care of .." then the next bill would (maybe) show up with the wrong name again. They are totally incompetent but thankfully your interaction with that group as well as the sales weasels  is very limited.  The actual operation of the system is mostly done by web access and that mostly goes well. 

Overall Wyndham's base system is fine but virtually everything involving their people and rules tend to be negative. Just deal with it as best you can and enjoy the great resorts.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 24, 2013)

kd172005 said:


> Thank you all for all your help. I see I have a lot to learn and research to see if buying a timeshare is worth it or not. I feel we will need 154000 points which will cost us 800+ in maintenance fees each year. I guess that would save me money as it would cost more than that for some week stay at the beach for most resorts, but do not if it is worth being bound to the fees from now on. How easy is it to get rid of the timeshare if I decide later that we will not use it enough?
> 
> Also, how easy is it to make reservations and rent it? Is there money to be made after paying maintenance fees? Can you make enough to pay your fees plus have points left to use for free?



It's more than being bound to the MFs that can get you.  There are also special assessments (SA), which can be quite costly.  I had a Wyndham ownership where the SA cost over $1,000 paid over three years.  Tough to make that back with rentals.

Renting on a small scale, like you are talking can be a lot of work and effort, and you are still at risk of getting stuck and not breaking even.  If you're talking about buying a 154k pt ownership, you won't have much especially if you are planning to go to nicer resorts during peak vacation season (beach in the summer, as an example).

In my opinion, buying a timeshare with any thought of renting to make money or to pay your MF's is a bad idea . . . especially for a first time owner.  Ron and others here have been at it for a while.  Many are "mega owners" and with the number of points they have, they are able to make a business out of it.

I own a very small points package (77k) at Myrtle Beach, it was given to me by my sister for free.  I have used the points for 4-5 night stays at places we want to go when we want to be there.  I have also been able to book 5-7 night stays for friends for the cost of the MFs + guest certificate (if any).  I barely break even when I do that and have no points left over to go take another vacation. Perhaps with 154k you could but I would not count on it as a real ownership/business model.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 24, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> <<snipped>> You must stay flexible and learn NEW ways as the TS world changes and as YOUR family vacationing style also changes.



This is probably the best advice in here!

I too owned a couple of Wyndham fixed weeks but ended up giving both away a couple/few years ago.  I had minimal front-end cost, so to give them away (literally for nothing) wasn't a big deal.  (One was a nice 3 BR lock-off, that took more than a year to give away for free!)

Our vacation style had changed . . . RCI exchanging changed to the detriment of some sweet perks Wyndham owners had (I used to get a 2BR in Hawaii for the 1BR side of the lock-off.  Now that was nice!!!)

Anyway, so now all we own is that 77k points package with Wyndham and a nice little studio on Waikiki that has a great TPU value:MF cost.


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## ronparise (Jun 24, 2013)

kd172005 said:


> Thanks ron , you have answered a lot of questions for me. What about the program fee I read about in one of the articles on here. Is that included in the maintenance fees or is that a separate fee?



I didnt see that this question was answered

The program fee pays for the reservation system and everything else behind the points system that allows us to use what we own at one resort to make reservations at any of the other resorts in the system. It is a separate charge, but it is billed with your maintenance fees. Most of us as well as most sellers when we talk about maintenance fees are talking about the maintenance fees and program fees combined

The basic program fee is 54 cents per $1000 points (I think Im right on that)  If you bought from the developer and have access to RCI nightly stays, its a little more. But there is a minimum program fee of $108/year (again I think Im right on that) so accounts of less than about 200000 points pay more than 54 cents per thousand


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## PHXwyndham (Jun 26, 2013)

markb53 said:


> You didn't mention if you could log into your RCI account at RCI.com I am assuming not. When I first got my account (I'm not VIP either) I had to call,probably 10 - 12 times before I got my account working. I would start with RCI and see if they know anything about you. If they do have a record of your membership, get your membership number. Then you can log into RCI.com directly and get access to Last Calls and extra vacation without going through the portal. Then I would call RCI portal support people and tell them the portal is not working. They will probably blame it on Wyndham. Then you call Wyndham owner care and tell them the portal is not working. They will probably blame RCI.
> 
> Mine was doing the same thing as yours when I first got my account. It took 2 weeks and a lot of phone calls to get it working. One bit of advice. DON'T get upset with them. Be sickeningly sweet.  The phone support, especially the Wyndham phone support can be very chatty. Be chatty back. If they want to talk about the great places you have gone. Talk about the great places you have have been or plan to go. You NEED them to WANT to help you. If you get someone who seem impatient or in a hurry. Thank them. Hang up and call back. Be patient. You will eventually get someone that will transfer you to someone, who will fix the problem.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have been with Wyndham for about 3 years now and the account doesn't work.  I really didn't care much, but now I want to do an exchange to NY and called to see what was going on.  I'll keep calling then...  Thanks for the reply.


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## kd172005 (Oct 10, 2014)

It has been a year since I started this thread and I have still not pulled the trigger on buying a timeshare yet. A few questions I have again after reviewing the threads are about the program fees and special assessment fees. The program fee of $108 per year is including in the maintenance fees i see advertised on eBay for example correct? It's not an additional fee right? Also, how and what are the special assessment fees?


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 10, 2014)

POA fee is  fixed at $118  for around 212K points  and then is $.56/ 1,000. Of course includes  "free" RCI membership.

See following, post 20  for SA  causes and MF.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217812


Simply put,  a resort  either collects enough  through annual MF to cover   operating  costs,   disasters    and  replace  major components when they wear out or they zap  owners  when  there is not enough money to pay bills.


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