# Just bought but debating if it's worth it



## cooper5114 (Jun 28, 2013)

I have 10 days to decide and even though i want this to work, i'm not sure it makes a ton of sense. I put down the deposit for 3500 points and it seems to me that i'm really getting something that i cannot easily get without joining. Maybe you folks can give me some insight. 

I'm paying between 35K (memory) + 1500/year

I have 4 kids so we're almost always going to want to stay in the 2BR suite -- location w/in a facility is not important to us. 

if i look at properties i'm most immediately interested in it seems to me that i can just rent those on the open market. Am i missing something -- i.e. can i get a reservation using my points that i cannot get via the marriott web site?

For example i'm looking at 3 properties
 - Park City (mountainside) - 12/16/13 - 12/20/13 - 228/night = 
 - Williamsburg - 6/4/14 - 6/9/14 - is $215 and 256/night 
 - Hilton Head (grand ocean) - 6/2/14 - 6/6/15 - is around $500/night

If i used my points this is what it would cost me
 - Park City - 1200 + 675 = 1875
 - Williamsburg - 250 or 625 points/night
 - Hilton head - 450 1125 points/night

Also are the 'get aways' that much cheaper than what's on the open market. 

Thanks for any help you can provide. i need to decide if it's worth it to pay 1500 every year for something like this.


----------



## simpsontruckdriver (Jun 28, 2013)

Rescind! Everything the salesman told you is a lie, you can have as good - if not better - for less than $500! Rescind, learn about resorts and (possibly) renting from here, find out which is the best resort to go to, etc.

TS


----------



## tompk (Jun 28, 2013)

It's not worth it.  We almost bot some last month and had the sense to back out.  You can always rent or buy points for one time usage for about .50-.60 per point or rent weeks on sites like redweek.  The other option is to buy resale at the locations you prefer to visit often and just own those weeks which you can always exchange via Interval Intl


----------



## EKniager (Jun 28, 2013)

You most certainly can buy a week on HHI or Williamsburg for significantly less on the secondary market.  Heck, I think there is a Williamsburg Platinum that was just posted for $500 + closing with an annual of $1,050.


----------



## billymach4 (Jun 28, 2013)

*Rescind, educate, then decide*

First of all the standard advice around here given is to rescind. Read the paperwork, follow the instructions, go to the USPS and send back the materials with your letter Certified Return Receipt. 

Hang out here on TUG. Read, research, ask plenty of questions, and get educated. 

You can rent, buy resale, then decide later on to plunk down 35K + $1500. My personal advice would be to purchase resale. If you really like Marriott you can purchase resale for a good quality Marriott resort, in a high season , 2br for well under 10K. Heck I would even take a bet at under 5K. You will not be in the points system. No big deal since you can trade on II. 

Save your hard earned cash.

You can also buy into other systems or resorts such as Wyndham, Bluegreen and exchange into other fine Marriotts, or other resorts.

In the end the Marriott system will still be available to purchase next month, or years ahead. Then you can still plunk down 35K and support the Marriott family.


----------



## SMHarman (Jun 28, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> I have 10 days to decide and even though i want this to work, i'm not sure it makes a ton of sense. I put down the deposit for 3500 points and it seems to me that i'm really getting something that i cannot easily get without joining. Maybe you folks can give me some insight.
> 
> I'm paying between 35K (memory) + 1500/year
> 
> ...


It's a bad deal as others have said, but lets play with that fuzzy math.
So you just dropped $35k.  I'm going to hope that is ready cash not financed or you are also paying $3500 a year in interest on that!
'need a 2 Br because the kids' well lets assume that will change in about 10 years.
And we know the resale of this is low.  Lets be generous and say 5k but it is probably nearer 1k.
So you need to add $3k a year to the current $1500 a year.  Thats $4500 a year.
Now, can you rent those nights you are looking at in December and June for that price.  YES.
Those weeks in June and December are also when your kids are in school (unless you home school) so won't be the ones you are looking for in a few years.

So, $4500 a year vs
228/ night x 4
256/ night x 6 
500 x 4
Thats $4500 so there is no benefit between cash or timeshare.  But cash can be used for so much more so you are better keeping your money in fungible cash, not illiquid timeshare.

Rescind and if you want some timeshare buy resale.


----------



## billymach4 (Jun 28, 2013)

billymach4 said:


> First of all the standard advice around here given is to rescind. Read the paperwork, follow the instructions, go to the USPS and send back the materials with your letter Certified Return Receipt.
> 
> Hang out here on TUG. Read, research, ask plenty of questions, and get educated.
> 
> ...



I see others have chime in as predicted. Since I have not been following prices lately it seems to me that the resale market has continued to lose value. 

You should also know that you will never recover the 35K you just signed over to Marriott as evidenced by the resale prices. As far as I know there is no system in place to resell DC points. I could be mistaken but this is a flaw in the the DC system for new developer purchases. There is no firm exit strategy documented on this forum. The sales force will lie and tell you "Marriott will buy the points back at 60%". At the end of the day only you will have to find a buyer for those points.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 28, 2013)

YOu only have 10 days to rescind, but you have forever to then buy if you end up wanting to buy. As others have said, read and learn. If at the end, you still decide you want to buy points direct from Marriott, those will still be there to buy. But if you decide you don't want what you bought, after 10 days, you are stuck with what you bought.


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 28, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> YOu only have 10 days to rescind, but you have forever to then buy if you end up wanting to buy. As others have said, read and learn. If at the end, you still decide you want to buy points direct from Marriott, those will still be there to buy. But if you decide you don't want what you bought, after 10 days, you are stuck with what you bought.





Take Dioxide's advice.  If your debating about it then now is the time to rescind.  Once the rescission period ends your stuck with it!

Check out this website so you can figure out how far your money can go:

www.vacationpointexchange.com



Make your own determination!


.


----------



## larryallen (Jun 28, 2013)

Just rent.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Jun 28, 2013)

larryallen said:


> Just rent.



Exactly. The times you're referencing aren't super prime time so renting will cost you at most $500 beyond what you're annual maintenance would be. How many year's spending +$500 = $35k.  70 years.


----------



## cooper5114 (Jun 28, 2013)

wow...this is one active site. I'm amazed and impressed. All i really do appreciate all your comments.

You are right. The sales guy did say that Marriott would buy the points back at 50% of the then current market value. But it was a soft commitment...kind of like they had the option / first right of refusal. 

I know i need to research some and so these questions could be answered if i did that but i'll ask 'em anyway. I think i'd prefer not to own a specific property or be on the hook for 1500+/year if i can get (rent) those properties from others on this board. So let me ask...How feasible is it to rent 5 days from someone on this board a hot property like Park City in early January (on the web that 2BR suite is listed at 1100/night) or Ocean front in Hilton Head in July or August?

Here i'm thinking pay someone on this board vs. having a piece of property to trade/exchange.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 28, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> wow...this is one active site. I'm amazed and impressed. All i really do appreciate all your comments.
> 
> You are right. The sales guy did say that Marriott would buy the points back at 50% of the then current market value. But it was a soft commitment...kind of like they had the option / first right of refusal.



Dispite what the sales rep has said, MVCI has no official buyback program for Destinations Club points. 



> I know i need to research some and so these questions could be answered if i did that but i'll ask 'em anyway. I think i'd prefer not to own a specific property or be on the hook for 1500+/year if i can get (rent) those properties from others on this board. So let me ask...How feasible is it to rent 5 days from someone on this board a hot property like Park City in early January (on the web that 2BR suite is listed at 1100/night) or Ocean front in Hilton Head in July or August?
> 
> Here i'm thinking pay someone on this board vs. having a piece of property to trade/exchange.



Renting is easy, though if you are looking for prime time, you will pay for it. It isn't cheap. You can always rent points for $0.50 - $0.65 per point and have the owner make the reservation for you at the desired resort. Of course it is all based on availability, though booking trust points bought from Marriott is also based on availability.

Consider though that for $35K you could buy two pretty prime deeded resale weeks and have annual maintenance fees of not much more than you would be paying with the 3,500 trust points.


----------



## StevenTing (Jun 28, 2013)

For prime weeks, if you plan 12 months out it shouldn't be a problem.  But then you have to be committed and also rent from someone reputable.  


--
Sent using Tapatalk


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 28, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> YOu only have 10 days to rescind, but you have forever to then buy if you end up wanting to buy.



The best line is above! And it's true.

But, take this into account.  Everyone is saying... rent the points, you'll get what you want. I think you should ask them to offer you a GUARANTEE that the points WILL ALWAYS BE .50 to .60 and available when you want them and in the quantity you want them. And if they can't GUARANTEE ask why.

As for not needing or buying a two bedroom... REALLY! How many posts are on this site highlight the LOVE OF SPACE! How many parents leave a MVC resort saying... once again, our kids and/or teens PREFERRED to share a room? Let's have them share at home!

How many other posts are about enjoying traveling with another bud(s), girlfriend(s), relatives, etc. in a ONE bedroom?

How many posts on here are expressing frustration at NOT getting what they want?

What I'm saying is take a step back and look at YOUR long-term dreams/realistic affordability and then compare a point purchase vs Marriott resale vs eBay vs timeshare broker vs private party vs standard status vs premiere status vs premiere plus status vs studio vs one bedroom vs two bedroom vs three bedroom. 

Most of all, today you only list three resorts, but will you ever want to visit WDW, Hawaii, etc. I doubt you'll see posts advising you to skip these and other MVC destinations.

GOOD LUCK with your research!


----------



## SMHarman (Jun 28, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> The best line is above! And it's true.
> 
> As for not needing or buying a two bedroom... REALLY! How many posts are on this site highlight the LOVE OF SPACE! How many parents leave a MVC resort saying... once again, our kids and/or teens PREFERRED to share a room? Let's have them share at home!
> 
> ...


Indeed, good advice.
35,000 out today with 1500MF increasing at 3%pa.  2% inflation and 5% investment return (say in a 401k) with 5k resale and a 10 year time horizon means you would be out of pocket 46,000 over those 10 years (purchase + todays value of MF - todays value of sale).  If you had invested the $35k at 5% it would have earned (compounded) 22k.  Thats $68k total.

So if you were to rent a week in a 2Br for $6800 a year for the next 10 years you would not be worse off.  Ski weeks in winter, there are only about 16 of them a year so they are always quite pricey but planning ahead can get a good rate.

Good luck


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 28, 2013)

1. Rescind today..DC points are a terrible deal.
2. Rent...don't buy.
3. If you do buy, make sure it's platinum from a reputable dealer on ebay, and be sure it's a place you'd enjoy using 3 out of 4 years and close enough to drive to.
4. Manor Club platinum is a good trader, close to you, gives you free rounds of golf, lots to do, and platinum weeks have sold for as little as $12.50 on eBay.

Brian


----------



## vacationtime1 (Jun 28, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> wow...this is one active site. I'm amazed and impressed. All i really do appreciate all your comments.
> 
> You are right. The sales guy did say that Marriott would buy the points back at 50% of the then current market value. But it was a soft commitment...kind of like they had the option / first right of refusal.
> 
> ...




Who told you that owners can easily use destination points to reserve these prime weeks?  The sales staff?  Probably.  Should you believe it?  Not necessarily.

What they didn't tell you is that these resorts are sold out and owned 95+% by weeks owners, not by the trust.  So unless and until a weeks owner decides to trade that prime week and deposits it into Interval for trading, the trust has no access to it and trust owners cannot reserve it.

Take the advice of the others and rescind, rescind, rescind.  Until you research the system and know how it _really_ works -- what it does and what it doesn't do --  hold unto your $35K.


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 29, 2013)

vacationtime1 said:


> Who told you that owners can easily use destination points to reserve these prime weeks?  The sales staff?  Probably.  Should you believe it?  Not necessarily.



I can personally testify to the fact that I have secured prime weeks at prime resorts with my DClub points. NOTE: my DClub status was Premiere and Premiere Plus and I called at 6A exactly 13-months out


----------



## cp73 (Jun 29, 2013)

Rescind now;
You will feel like a fool and taken advantage of if you don't;
Take your time to research this in depth before you plunge any money into it!
There is no way it makes any financial sense to go forward with that deal!


----------



## jme (Jun 29, 2013)

You don't know how lucky you are to still have time to back out!  

Whoa, for that money you will *only have enough for ONE MEDIOCRE week* per year----it won't even get a week at a prime resort in prime season.  They're counting on your realizing that later and NEEDING to then purchase more points.  For that same money you could buy 3, 4, maybe 5 resale high-end, high-season resort weeks in the Marriott system and go pretty much anywhere you want. It takes 4500-5500 points to do something really great for one week. 

but who says you have to buy anything at all??? 

perhaps the best advice, just *rent *the time you want. You can rent points or weeks. don't really have to purchase anything.

but if you do, here's how, just for sake of explanation and comparison: With several deeded weeks you could occupy some, and convert any "lockout" weeks into double additional weeks, and then also thru trades acquire more bonus weeks. Or just occupy great weeks straight out. For instance, a platinum week at Newport Coast Villas may run $7K-$9K, a Grande Ocean platinum might be $10-12K, same for platinum Oceanwatch/Myrtle Beach, or a Maui Ocean Club might be $12+K. 
Grand Chateau/Vegas will be far less but trades well, same for Manor Club----both lockouts if desired, and platinum weeks for both run about $500-3K, and some for almost nothing if you catch them right!!! Even Orlando's Grande Vista 3-BR L/O would be a great option for $6-8K, and 2-BR's are less.  Not sure of my prices, but they're close, and give you the idea. So many possibilities. Rescind, watch ebay.

and rent a few times first.....truly, no rush. 



.


----------



## laurac260 (Jun 29, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> I have 10 days to decide and even though i want this to work, i'm not sure it makes a ton of sense. I put down the deposit for 3500 points and it seems to me that i'm really getting something that i cannot easily get without joining. Maybe you folks can give me some insight.
> 
> I'm paying between 35K (memory) + 1500/year
> 
> ...



I don't fully understand the point system, don't use it, don't care to at this point.  We own one week, Platinum Season at MGO and also have a friend who owns a condo down the street from there, so we can get our fill of HHI.  

I would not  pay 500$ a night EVER at MGO, because there is no need to.  You can rent an oceanfront (meaning a high floor, full on ocean view) for no more than $3000 a week during prime time, and by that I mean, middle of July (the week you are referring to is just a bit softer than mid July).  You can get an oceanside (or whatever they are calling it), for $2000 or possibly less a week in the middle of July.  

There is no need to pay full boat for HHI (meaning, what Marriott thinks their weeks are worth).  Redweek.com is your friend, my friend.  

Frankly, the only advantage (for us) to owning over renting (and we bought resale), is just not having the "hassle" of shopping for a week every year.  I'm not certain that is particularly worth it, but we own now, so it is what it is, I suppose.  Again, we are not traders.


----------



## kjd (Jun 29, 2013)

A lot of the foregoing "advice" is correct and some of it can be wrong for you depending upon your circumstances and preferences.  As others have said you're the one that has to evaluate what you want.  That's true.  But, it's not a simple numbers game as some would like to portray it.

I have purchased weeks both directly from Marriott and also in the resale market.  My direct purchases were back in the day of large incentives and pre-construction pricing.  If effect a lot of that cost was mitigated by taking European vacations with the point incentives.  It also gave me the ability to prepay for vacations the rest of my life.  It also gave me the right to have a home resort week that was deeded.

My resale purchases were done with the idea of accumulating additional weeks to trade or to use in places that I can drive to.  I entered into all of these transactions expecting to lose most of my money but having a long term plan for vacations.  

Had most of us not bought weeks, whether direct or resale, we probably would not have taken the vacations we did.  It is a commitment. Additionally, I like being connected to a company and a system that recognizes loyalty.  I like being a platinum member when I check in to a hotel or timeshare.  I like having a vacation adviser and a concierge that can help me execute my plans.  All advantages that renters or members of other timeshare systems may not have.  

In other words, there are other considerations that go into any economic decision besides cost.  The biggest one of course is "can I afford it?"  In the OP's case it sounds as if the contract should be rescinded.  You probably need to step back and learn more about timesharing and what your vacation priorities are.  There will always be opportunities to buy.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Jun 29, 2013)

My take on the OP comments is he doesn't take 7 day vacations like many these days so he needs to either rent points or buy into the point system through Marriott.

I remember the days fondly when Marriott gave so many MR points with a direct purchase at the time it virtually negated any resales discount. That stopped at least from my recollection around 2005 or so because that is when I bought our last MOW and the points were already falling off to the highs in the early years.

Our first purchase was actually a Grand Vista gold in 2000 for which they gave us 4 coach tickets to Maui and 300k points. Traded to Maui, fell in love and "traded up" to a Maui 2BDRM for which they gave me full credit of the GV gold purchase price and 400k points for the Maui purchase.

Our 2nd Maui we got more than 500k, Aruba Surf 400k+ and MOW 400k+


By 2006/07 they were offering like 125k  and the direct sales never made sense again.


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 29, 2013)

kjd said:


> In other words, there are other considerations that go into any economic decision besides cost.  The biggest one of course is "can I afford it?"



A ca$h purchase in the timeshare industry is VERY RARE. Have you seen the lending volume last reported by Starwood, Hyatt and MVW? The financing demand is so high they are charging a rate well above their COF. The return is so good that investors are buying the packaged loans with MVW maintaining loan servicing.

Some are quick to say, we paid ca$h and would never finance... but, they don't admit they used their HELOC or ca$h from their recent refi.

So a lot of buyers are saying, I can afford a monthly payment!


----------



## Ridewithme38 (Jun 29, 2013)

You know what i always wonder after reading these threads with people screaming "Rent instead of buying" is how many of those people screaming that have their weeks up for rent....I've been on this forum awhile, so i know it's a lot of you

Recinding is a good idea! BUT, i'm not sure that renting is better then buying...But definately recind and do some more research before you buy or rent at all.....and take any advice to "Rent instead of buy" from forums like this with a grain of salt


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 29, 2013)

I also go way back to the days of huge MR incentives to buy direct...my last two I bought for about $18,000 each from Marriott and each came with 500,000 MR points.  My earlier ones also came with huge MR points incentives and some allowed trading for 110,000 or 100,000 MR points when maintenance fees were just over $400 a year.  Great deal.  I saw the world flying business class courtesy of Marriott.

Those days are gone unfortunately...and the 110,000 points are worth only $1375 and in most cases the MF fees are more than $1000.  Still a deal, perhaps, but not nearly what they used to be as the number of points you can get is fixed...while MF can go up annually between 5-15%.  Marriott is intentionally ruining the Marriott Rewards program...at least for the old times who knew a better time.

To the last poster above, I would rather rent from a TUG member than someone I didn't know on eBay.  In many cases it's an owner who booked his week a year ahead and for whatever reason can't use it...so tries to rent it through eBay, Tug, or Redweek to just recover his costs or a little more.  Owners can only rent weeks that they personally own, and not traders from Interval.  

Renting gives newbies a chance for as little as the annual MF, sometimes less, to try different resorts and see if they really like timesharing without getting tied down to annual owner obligations...and experience in renting will make you a wiser buyer.  You just need a little flexibility in when you can travel, and you may never need to buy.

Brian


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 29, 2013)

pwrshift said:


> I also go way back to the days of huge MR incentives... I saw the world flying business class courtesy of Marriott.
> 
> Those days are gone unfortunately...and the 110,000 points are worth only $1375 and in most cases the MF fees are more than $1000.  Still a deal, perhaps, but not nearly what they used to be as the number of points you can get is fixed...while MF can go up annually between 5-15%.  Marriott is intentionally ruining the Marriott Rewards program...at least for the old times who knew a better time.



With all due respect, I question your statement's accuracy in relation to INTERNATIONAL FIRST CLASS travel value. I continue to fly FIRST CLASS thanks to MRewards Travel Packages. Now that said, it takes advance planning and coordination, but I achieve it EOY.


----------



## EducatedConsumer (Jun 29, 2013)

Take your money back and run.

Do your homework, and ? buy resale, if it fits your needs.

FYI, as December looms, some current owners become increasingly anxious about selling their timeshare, before their next year's maintenance fees become due. Historically, there are some bargains to be had on the secondary market in November and December.


----------



## cooper5114 (Jun 30, 2013)

OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership? I can understand the one time in incentive (200K MR points for me or 3500 extra MVC points)  but that's a one time deal and I'm not sure even what 200K MR points would buy you.


----------



## cooper5114 (Jun 30, 2013)

Well I'll respond to parting my own post. It looks like 1 MR point will be worth about $0.004 when I plugged it a couple MR fly and drive examples. So 200K MR points is worth about $800. But that's just a one time incentive. I can trade the 3500 MVC points in for MR points worth about $400 based on this.


----------



## cp73 (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership?



I love this you got about 50 people telling you to back out and one guy mentions flying first class and thats your question!!!

Here is my take. First you need to spend a lot more money than you had planned. Second the moon and the stars have to perfectly align, the airlines have to be offering some sort of points discount special like half price on first class travel to get it within reason, then you have to plan this about 13 months out. Other than that its quite simple and I am sure a couple others will chime in..

Good luck and I hope you rescinded or your going to make some Marriott Sales Rep very happy!


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership? I can understand the one time in incentive (200K MR points for me or 3500 extra MVC points)  but that's a one time deal and I'm not sure even what 200K MR points would buy you.



Point 1-- I hope the previous post below, from mid-June shows how I maximize my MRewards points exclusively with Travel Packages.
Point 2-- Notice that I convert three MVCs EOY for the points. Don't forget each one had a buy-in.
Point 3-- Today Marriott resales has villas priced at $14,000 that offer 125,000 points annually.
Point 4-- All of the steps below are done at a minimum 12 months out. TWELVE MONTHS!
Point 5-- In all honesty, other owners are passionately against my election for MReward points.

Originally Posted by rpgriego 06/12/2013 09:02 PM
So a FIRST Class ticket in July LAX to Rome on AA is not worth $9,000 (First Mile Saver award= 125,000 AAdvantage miles) because of a 12-14 hour flight? I think the art, history and the all around fun of Rome is worth a nights sleep, remember the seat turns into a six foot, six inch fully flat bed.

So for me, every other year I elect MRPs for my DSVI (110,000) and IP (125,000). Every year I can elect for my RP (110,000), but stick with every other year. I never elect MRPs for my Ko Olina because MVC gives me just shy of 6,000 DClub points annually.

So I receive 345,000 MRPs for a one-time cost of $4,500 or .013 per MRP.

I contact MRewards for a 7 night Travel Package Category 9 for 390,000 MRPs. They deposit 120,000 MRPs into my AAdvantage account and award me 7 nights hotel.

Now 7 nights at the Rome Grand Flora has a value as well.

Correct me if I'm WRONG...
$4,500 MFs COMPARED to the combined value of a $9,000 AA airfare AND the value of 7 nights at the Rome Grand Flora.

I believe even with "the devalue of MR Points" an owner can AVOID a "worst value proposition" situation or making a "certainly not a wise desicion" when electing MRPs and redeeming for a Travel Package.

Now I execute this plan every other year as do some of my buddies. NOTE: one buddy just elect points annually, but at the end of the day he is paying the same to accomplish what we do, just not as frequently.

BOTTOM LINE... Marriott Vacation Club ROCKS for me, my family and my buds!


----------



## cooper5114 (Jun 30, 2013)

CP73... Don't mis-interpret my question. I've decided to rescind my offer but I'm trying to figure stuff out. 

I could easily see me wanting to buy a week in HHI at Grand Ocean during the summer. We'd use it but I could also see us trading it for another location. Places we'd be most interested in would be a ski location, Hawaii, Europe, and even Orlando. 

Several more questions come to mind

1. How expensive is a summer week at GO? I'll go check ebay but you guys may know the market off the too of your heads. 
2. How challenging would it be to trade this for those other locations given a years notice?
3. If I buy a property from an individual do I lose the ability to exchange my week for MR points -- not sure it makes sense but want to know my options. Same goes with ever converting them into points. 
4. Is there a resource online that tells me what the maintenance fees r for a given property and week?

BTW thanks for all the insight....it has been extremely educational.


----------



## StevenTing (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> CP73... Don't mis-interpret my question. I've decided to rescind my offer but I'm trying to figure stuff out.
> 
> I could easily see me wanting to buy a week in HHI at Grand Ocean during the summer. We'd use it but I could also see us trading it for another location. Places we'd be most interested in would be a ski location, Hawaii, Europe, and even Orlando.
> 
> ...



For #3, you would lose that option.
For #4, most ebay auctions list the maintenance fees. In general, they're pretty close.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> 4. Is there a resource online that tells me what the maintenance fees r for a given property and week?



Check out the Weeks FAQ sticky at the top of the forum. There are links there to historical and current maintenance fees.


----------



## SkyBlueWaters (Jun 30, 2013)

GregT's value per point chart helped me decide. I bought at the property we love and are having difficulty exchanging to consistently. We don't want a hit or miss.

http://gtibbitts.tripod.com/webonmediacontents/Points Values v10.pdf


----------



## jimf41 (Jun 30, 2013)

cp73 said:


> I love this you got about 50 people telling you to back out and one guy mentions flying first class and thats your question!!!
> 
> Here is my take. First you need to spend a lot more money than you had planned. Second the moon and the stars have to perfectly align, the airlines have to be offering some sort of points discount special like half price on first class travel to get it within reason, then you have to plan this about 13 months out. Other than that its quite simple and I am sure a couple others will chime in..
> 
> Good luck and I hope you rescinded or your going to make some Marriott Sales Rep very happy!



There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.

Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.

IMO Marriott went way out to bring the resale owners into the fold when they came up with the points system. Not very many took the olive branch. The weeks system and all it's advantages will eventually disappear. It may take a long time but it will happen. Weeks owners will always be able to use their weeks but the trading possibilities are now and will continue to be in decline.

So here is my advice to you COOPER5114. If you can afford the 35k they want for the 3500 points do it. If you have to finance then I would back out and read up a little more and possibly rent a week or two to see if you like timesharing. If you want more than one week to start with then go the resale route as buying enough points in the beginning to get two prime weeks is just too expensive IMO. BTW the 3500 points they are selling you will only get you one of the weeks that I occupy, a 1bdrm OF at Ocean Point in July for seven nights. If you want to travel 5 nights SUN-THURS then you can pretty much go anywhere in a 2bdrm. Marriott is counting on you buying more points over the years but you had to assume that when you bought assuming you liked the product. Who doesn't remodel a bathroom or a kitchen or trade up to a nicer car when you can afford it. 

I own seven weeks all bought though Marriott for a little over 150k. I didn't buy them all at once but over a period of about five years. I have no regrets and have garnered more vacations and FC airfares than I can remember. My kids and my grandkids all enjoy them and are planning on keeping them when I'm gone.

One more thing. There are now two guys that have posted in disagreement.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Jun 30, 2013)

As a "newbie" myself for 18 months, I would strongly suggest you buy resale weeks rather than points. My total cost for buying 4 annuals and 1 biannual is less than $2,500 total for all of them and I have enjoyed about about 12 weeks away during this time for a total cost of less than $9,000 including maintenance fees, membership, exchange fees and the cost of purchase included.

It will be years before I spend $34,000 plus about $1500 in annual MF in your first year. Just remember your 3400 points will maybe get you a week in a one bedroom. I've had probably 5 two bedroom and 7 one bedroom units in this time. Your $1500 each year will generate one week in a one bedroom. If I am putting out $1500, I will have two weeks probably in a two bedroom unit. You do the math. 

By the time I spend $35,500, I would estimate that I would have had 54 weeks of timeshare usage by the time you get your first. Pretty easy decision now ?

There are many ways to get to the same destination but do you really want to pay more than 20x as much to get less ? Doesn't make sense to me, but as everyone says, it is your money and your choice. Personally I will NEVER buy new, EVER.


----------



## cooper5114 (Jun 30, 2013)

Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good. 

If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices? 

Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.


----------



## StevenTing (Jun 30, 2013)

Any resale week purchases after June 2010 is not eligible for the DC program. 


--
Sent using Tapatalk


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.
> 
> If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?
> 
> Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.



Not buying from Marriott leaves you with the following use options:
-- home resort stay
-- Interval International bank
-- Interval International trade
-- private party trade
-- private party rent

Buying from Marriott Resale will cost you $##,### for a three bedroom villa and $##,### for matching DClub point value. That's the cheapest Marriott/developer buy-in. WHY the matching DClub point value buy? Marriott requires it to bring your cheap resale week into the DClub. 

Why did I say say a three bedroom RESALE villa? Because once YOU experience SPACE, YOU will always want SPACE! Seriously, everyone on here will offer their opinion on which three bedroom to buy. That said, I believe the cheapest is a nonlock-off Imperial Palms for $14,000 and it comes with the option for 125,000 ANNUAL MRPs.

I think I got this right!


----------



## SMHarman (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.
> 
> If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?
> 
> Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.


Yes but if you cannot use or rent / sublet a week then you can drop the week into Interval International and exchange it for another week at a point in time in the future.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jun 30, 2013)

cooper5114 said:


> CP73... 3. If I buy a property from an individual do I lose the ability to exchange my week for MR points -- not sure it makes sense but want to know my options. Same goes with ever converting them into points. ...





cooper5114 said:


> Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.
> 
> If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?
> 
> Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.



Any Weeks purchased on the external market are not eligible to be exchanged for Marriott Rewards Points.

The cutoff dates for DC enrollment are 6/20/10 for the US resorts and 6/18/12 for the European resorts - Weeks purchased after those dates are not eligible for DC enrollment.  But enrollment is not a permanent exchange of Weeks for DC Points - Owners do not "convey the property to the trust" when they join the DC program; only Marriott can convey to the Trust.  Enrollment is basically an overlay system in which Weeks Owners who enroll their Weeks can elect to convert their Weeks to DC Points on an annual basis.  When buying or selling a Week, DC enrollment/eligibility does not transfer with the sale.


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 30, 2013)

jimf41 said:


> There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.
> 
> Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.
> 
> ...



WOW! This was an honest post, but in defense of the some other posters on here...  they've also expressed NO regrets for their developer purchases/portfolio. I believe it's because they've worked the system since their buy-in. And let's not forget those lucky non-MVC buyers (pre 6/2010) who have joined the DClub.

We need more of the 420,000 owners and members of 550,000 weeks (as of 12/31/2013) on this site speaking-up!

If someone starts calling you a Marriott Rep going forward just laugh it off. I do!


----------



## SkyBlueWaters (Jun 30, 2013)

jimf41 said:


> There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.
> 
> Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.
> 
> ...



I disagree that weeks owners, all of almost half a million will disappear. We will be around, maybe not just trading through Marriott. Amongst ourselves, we'll figure it out.


BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.


----------



## rpgriego (Jun 30, 2013)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.



"shutting others out"???


----------



## GregT (Jun 30, 2013)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.





rpgriego said:


> "shutting others out"???



I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.  

Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date.  I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system.      While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.  

Best,

Greg


----------



## rpgriego (Jul 1, 2013)

GregT said:


> I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.
> 
> Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date.  I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system.      While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.
> 
> ...



Totally see your POV. But, my question remains unanswered.

BTW...
Their is NO BETTER timeshare than HGVC's NY Hilton property. Spent five nights with my all my buds there and EACH OF US LOVED IT! That has yet to happen at a Marriott VC or Four Seasons RClub. 

Is it true the HGVC Hilton NY lease expires in two years???


----------



## SkyBlueWaters (Jul 1, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> "shutting others out"???



If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?


----------



## GregT (Jul 1, 2013)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?



I don't see this happening -- I think it will always be easy for Marriott owners to trade outside of Marriott (except to other systems that also have a preference -- like Starwood).  

I do believe that the most prime (eligible for enrollment) Marriott weeks will either 1) be used for personal use or 2) be enrolled into DC and used for DC Point exchanges.   I think it unlikely that an owner of a prime week will be trading outside the Marriott system.

I think trading outside of the Marriott system will always be easy/welcomed by Marriott.   That frees up a potentially prime week for use by II or Marriott, and in trade for an external week.

Marriott may have had different motives for supporting/not supporting the value of weeks ownership, but personally, I don't believe trading externally is viewed as a problem by Marriott.   

Best,

Greg


----------



## lizap (Jul 1, 2013)

I recently purchased platinum and gold Westin and Hyatt weeks (resale) and have been looking to add a third TS and seriously considered DVC and Marriott.  DVC is too limited on locations and costs too much.  As far as Marriott, buying directly from Marriott is too expensive as well.   If you buy a Marriott resale, you cannot use Marriott's internal exchange but must use II.  Given where the OP wants to travel, I would suggest that you take a look at Starwood and Hyatt (Starwood would probably better suit your needs).  If you buy resale (platinum) at a Starwood mandatory property, you can get you to Hawaii, Orlando, and the mountains, and you can use Starwood's internal exchange system - and your cost will be considerably less, much less than $35K.  I found Hyatt's resale weeks very reasonable as well, but I don't believe they have an Orlando property, but are building a property in Hawaii.  Bottomline, if you want to trade internally, Marriott points must be purchased directly with Marriott, and they are way too expensive.  I will be recouping my costs on Westin and Hyatt TSs in a few years; with Marriott, it would take more than 10 years.  Unacceptable in my opinion, especially since many of the Marriott properties can be rented or even booked via Marriott at quite reasonable prices.




GregT said:


> I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.
> 
> Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date.  I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system.      While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.
> 
> ...


----------



## rpgriego (Jul 1, 2013)

SkyBlueWaters said:


> If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?



The DClub was really formed to expand affordability for new sales and increase sales to existing owners. Do you recall the average price of a week preDClub? Considering the average number of points that are now bought their decision to launch makes sense. Now the average number of points could be skewed by existing owners only buying small point packages for whatever reason. For example, I only bought 1,000 points to achieve PremierePLUS status. And so far, I don't regret it!

Weeks owners will NEVER disappear, however you're correct that the lure of the DClub will only grow stronger as more and more weeks owners join. But, as you wisely said, owners outside the DClub will find a way to trade into other resorts.


----------



## Pens_Fan (Jul 1, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> The DClub was really formed to expand affordability for new sales and increase sales to existing owners.



The DClub was formed because Marriott was stuck trying to figure out how to sell off all of the leftover silver and bronze weeks at resorts after the platinum and golds were gone.

Bring out the point option where anyone can buy enough points to, theoretically, go to any resort at any time of the year.  It doesn't matter that there really is only so much prime time of the year.

Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.


----------



## csxjohn (Jul 1, 2013)

Pens_Fan said:


> ...
> 
> Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.



And the best way for TS companies to make more money is to is to roll out something that is perceived as status, something that not everyone has but you can have  for  $XX,XXX.

Without all the glitz and the high pressure a very small percentage of the population will see these types of programs as worth the money to get them.

Suggesting that the other thousands of owners are convinced that the money was well spent because they are not voicing their opposition  is like talking about the "silent majority."  Remember that, "oh, they are not voicing their opposition so they must be for it.":hysterical:

Keep you're $35,000 for now and find out what really has value to you in Timeshare World.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 1, 2013)

A couple of points:

1.  BusinessClass seats are usually only found on 3 class planes but take less FF miles than first class.  But on 2 class planes first class takes the same number of points as business class on 3 class planes.  Most planes are 2 class including many international flights like Air Canada.  I use my UA FF miles from Marriott pkgs on Air Canada, Swiss, Lufthansa, etc., as partners in Star Alliance that have many non-stop flights all over the world from the Toronto hub (YYZ).  If you check SeatGuru.com you can see the seat size specs.

2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'.  As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'.  Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed.  Many first time buyers used to be 'conned' into buying a 'new' TS week ... when in fact they are all 'used'.
Still, newbies often get conned into buying $35,000 worth of DC points because they make incorrect assumptions there is no other choice.  Then, in a buyer remorse period after spending all that money on nothing, a very few of them find TUG.

Brian


----------



## Saintsfanfl (Jul 1, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> And the best way for TS companies to make more money is to is to roll out something that is perceived as status, something that not everyone has but you can have  for  $XX,XXX.



Bingo. It will always be something "new" and "exclusive". Today's exclusivity will be tomorrow's worthless stale mail. 

Eventually they will build an "exclusive" resort that will not be able to be reserved with DC points.


----------



## GregT (Jul 1, 2013)

pwrshift said:


> 2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'.  As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'.  Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed.



Brian,

I actually think this will help Marriott -- over time, they can simply acquire those weeks (that are being sold) via ROFR and stick them in the trust, and recycle those weeks through points sales.   This has the added benefit of making the Trust inventory more robust.   I think in time (15 years?) we will find that many of the prime weeks exist in the Trust, which will make the Marriott timeshare system into more of a true point system  -- where the inventory is controlled --- versus just an exchange.  I think this will make the usage of points even easier.

This doesn't bode well for the II trader, and its not clear what it means for the Floating week owner, to compete for reservations with an owner that owns the majority of prime floating weeks.   

I think if the DC was going to fail, it would have failed initially, when they didn't have access to the critical inventory to meet initial points reservation requests. I also think this is why they allowed legacy owners to enroll at all -- they needed access to our weeks, and they needed customers for their new product.   But they've navigated the infancy, and the reservations part of the system is now running well.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves over time.

Best,

Greg


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 1, 2013)

pwrshift said:


> ... 2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'.  As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'.  Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed. ...



Marriott has ramped up their buyback and ROFR activity during the last year or so.  With them holding ROFR on the overwhelming majority of Weeks in the system, I'm expecting that over the years they'll exercise it for any resorts/intervals that they want to fuel the DC Trust and Exchange Company.  I don't agree at all that, "the DC Program is doomed," not when they have so many avenues open to re-acquiring existing Weeks.

{ETA} What Greg said.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 1, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> ... Now the average number of points could be skewed by existing owners only buying small point packages for whatever reason. ...



Small points packages combined with banking/borrowing make for a very attractive ownership for folks who were priced completely out of the market just prior to the DC inception.  Now Marriott can sell them one-third of the Points required for any Week in the system with the idea that they can get that dream vacation every three years, plus reap the secondary benefits of membership.  It's a more budget-minded (as compared to Weeks) direct-purchase entry into a system and it's been proven effective in older, established systems.



rpgriego said:


> ... For example, I only bought 1,000 points to achieve PremierePLUS status. And so far, I don't regret it! ...



IMO this is the most risk-laden reason - pertaining to usage - to purchase DC Points.  The DC docs make it very clear that the thresholds for DC status are based on the aggregate total of all Points and are subject to increases, and that a Member's current status at the time of an increase will not be grandfathered.  In fact, the docs clearly spell out what will happen - Members will retain their current status only through the end of the Use Year following such increases and then be assimilated into the new tier structure.

Granted, there's no telling when increases will happen, but it's definitely a risk that IMO should be understood by any buyers/enrollees.


----------



## kjd (Jul 1, 2013)

It's my observation that most large businesses that fail, fail because of a lack of customers rather than a lack of product.  The idea of a Marriott bankruptcy because of a lack of inventory is hard to imagine.  Although Marriott does own some hotel properties, their core business is hotel management.  That business model is based on being an operator rather than ownership.  

The spin-off of the timeshare business and the introduction of the points program signals the fact that Marriott Worldwide Vacations (VAC) is strictly a service corporation.  Obviously, they were confident prior to the spin-off that the procurement of inventory was not going to be a problem.  So far, I think they were right.


----------



## puckmanfl (Jul 1, 2013)

good morning...

Puck crystal ball...  # of points for PP and P will not increase... Following the bouncing Puck...

PP is 5% of owners...  In order for the points to go up, for every 20 new DC owners, 1 PP owner must be created to keep the 5% ratio.  I think the majority of the "top-offers" have already done so.  Greg's buddy aside, just betting that perhaps 1 of 50 to 1 in 100 new purchasers fork up for 13K points...  There are some Grand Residence quarterly owners that just enrolled swelling DC PP somewhat but I think numbers work out as described...

I do think it may make more sense to create a new Tier..Perhaps 16K points that gives more goodies... This way you don't anger current PP's and give all others a new level to strive for...


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 1, 2013)

GregT said:


> Brian,
> 
> I actually think this will help Marriott -- over time, they can simply acquire those weeks (that are being sold) via ROFR and stick them in the trust, and recycle those weeks through points sales.   This has the added benefit of making the Trust inventory more robust.   I think in time (15 years?) we will find that many of the prime weeks exist in the Trust, which will make the Marriott timeshare system into more of a true point system  -- where the inventory is controlled --- versus just an exchange.  I think this will make the usage of points even easier.
> 
> ...



Good point Greg as I hadn't factored in ROFR, mainly because to date I don't see them using it much.  Friends have bought Manor Club and Beachplace for hundreds of dollars over the last year and all went through ok.  That doesn't mean Marriott won't step up ROFR but other than the occasional post on TUG it appears a high percent is going through.  Two ebay retailers say all theirs are getting through.  
Either way it might mean more dollars when we sell than available today.

Brian


----------



## rpgriego (Jul 2, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> IMO this is the most risk-laden reason - pertaining to usage - to purchase DC Points.  The DC docs make it very clear that the thresholds for DC status are based on the aggregate total of all Points and are subject to increases, and that a Member's current status at the time of an increase will not be grandfathered.  In fact, the docs clearly spell out what will happen - Members will retain their current status only through the end of the Use Year following such increases and then be assimilated into the new tier structure.
> 
> Granted, there's no telling when increases will happen, but it's definitely a risk that IMO should be understood by any buyers/enrollees.



You've clearly stated a very wise opinion, however I'm LOVING PremierePLUS status. The ability to book a Sunday through Thursday stay, where I want, whatever season I want, in the room type I want, BEFORE most owners is PRICELESS!


----------



## rpgriego (Jul 2, 2013)

Pens_Fan said:


> The DClub was formed because Marriott was stuck trying to figure out how to sell off all of the leftover silver and bronze weeks at resorts after the platinum and golds were gone.
> 
> Bring out the point option where anyone can buy enough points to, theoretically, go to any resort at any time of the year.  It doesn't matter that there really is only so much prime time of the year.
> 
> Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.



You're partially right. They did have a lot of not so highly desired weeks that have been conveniently transferred into the trust. But, they also had a lot of EXPENSIVE weeks transferred into the trust. We're you able to afford OCEAN FRONT/OCEAN VIEW developer pricing for Ko Olina, Maui, Crystal Shores, Lakeshore Reserve, ski resorts, Caribbean. Basically, MVC's new tier of purpose built. I'm going to assume your answer is no, but what if I told you SueDonJ's 1/3; 1/3; 1/3 point idea puts the sands of Hawaii or the Caribbean islands within reach in a spacious two or three bedroom villa. Imagine the difference an MVC villa gives you vs a hotel room or two.  And we can finance it for you as well. Just like any salesman I don't talk price, I talk an affordable monthly payment.

So you see, affordability is the key. Today's dollars are locking in a lifetime of memories, that you're giving your family.

Still doubt me??? The growing ownership speaks for itself!


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 2, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> The growing ownership speaks for itself!



Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott?  If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.


----------



## rpgriego (Jul 2, 2013)

pwrshift said:


> Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott?  If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.



ahhh... 

You can do the same research I do by reading MVW's legal filings aka 10-Q.  Do you think the numbers they contain on sales and/or ownership are "speculation"? Do you think the stocks appreciation, is based on reported results or "speculation"?

I'll give your PR comment some credit. Every company spins their numbers including the one you work for and the one I work for. Oh, and MVW too! And Apple. And Disney. I'm always suspect of GE and the famous Welch philosophy of using quarterly restructuring charges and credits.

I welcome a challenge, just not such an easy one.


----------



## GregT (Jul 2, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> The growing ownership speaks for itself!





pwrshift said:


> Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott?  If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.





rpgriego said:


> You can do the same research I do by reading MVW's legal filings aka 10-Q.



Okay, not sure where you guys are going with this one.

At 12/31/10, there were 400,000 owners (per their SEC filing when they filed the Information Statement for SpinCo).

At 12/31/12, there were 421,000 owners (per their 12/31/12 10-K).

That's definitely growing ownership -- 5% over two years -- 2.5% per annum.  slow, but steady.   

The more impressive number (to me) is that they are selling ~$600M of points/weeks per year, which is a real revenue number.

Best,

Greg


----------



## StevenTing (Jul 2, 2013)

But with the 200 million points in the trust at the $11.88 price that's almost $2.4 Billion in inventory.  If they've sold $600 million per year, that means they'll sell out soon.  Maybe have 2 or 3 years of sales left based on current trust numbers. 

My guess is this accelerates ROFR unless we see more weeks conveyed to the trust soon.  


--
Sent using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 2, 2013)

rpgriego said:


> You've clearly stated a very wise opinion, however I'm LOVING PremierePLUS status. The ability to book a Sunday through Thursday stay, where I want, whatever season I want, in the room type I want, BEFORE most owners is PRICELESS!



Oh I agree, Premier Plus status gives Members the best of the DC's flexible features along with the best secondary perks/benefits of membership.

I just wouldn't recommend that someone should purchase DC Points for the sole reason of attaining status, unless s/he completely understands that the status thresholds are not guaranteed.


----------



## MALC9990 (Jul 2, 2013)

When/If the Asia Pacific weeks and AP Points are brought into the DC in perhaps 2014, we will then see a potential jump in Premier and Premier Plus numbers but again it will be small. Depends on how the AP weeks and Points systems are included, if like Europe the weeks owners are allowed to enroll and the Points are merged into the DC then there are probably some European owners who did not enroll their EU weeks but with their AP weeks and possibly AP Points then they might well now enroll and go to Premier or Premier Plus status.


----------



## laurac260 (Jul 3, 2013)

We own one week, bought resale, at grande ocean in Hilton head.  We don't trade.  The facility is 80% owner occupied.  This week I think it is higher than 80%.

Weeks owners aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


----------

