# DVC to affiliate with RCI! [MERGED]



## Amy

*[4 different threads were going on this topic, so I've merged them to keep all the info. together. - DeniseM Moderator]*

I just got the news in my email newsletter.  Unfortunately I couldn't click into the member website for more info (assuming there is more info).  Why?  Most of the nicest timeshares (that most would consider on par with DVCs) seem to be affiliated exclusively with II.  I'll be curious to see which RCI resorts will be part of the list.  So this means those RCI resort owners will have an opportunity into DVC, too.


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## timeos2

*Back to the Future?*



Amy said:


> I just got the news in my email newsletter.  Unfortunately I couldn't click into the member website for more info (assuming there is more info).  Why?  Most of the nicest timeshares (that most would consider on par with DVCs) seem to be affiliated exclusively with II.  I'll be curious to see which RCI resorts will be part of the list.  So this means those RCI resort owners will have an opportunity into DVC, too.



DVC was originally affiliated with RCI.  The switch to II occurred at least in part due to DVC's desire to charge the "exchange penalty fee" of $95 that clearly violated RCI exchange rules. They wouldn't allow back then.  Of course now things are different and RCI lets Manhattan Club get away with it so why not DVC too? 

Having both groups to choose from is a plus for any resort/system so overall if it occurs that's not a bad thing.


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## Denise L

*Text of article*

Here is the full text:

'With a growing number of Members exploring a world of vacation destinations beyond their Home Resorts, Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that those Member Getaways exchanges present the best and most diverse experiences possible. It's with this commitment in mind that Disney Vacation Club has formed a relationship with RCI, the world's largest vacation-exchange company, effective Jan. 1, 2009.

While Members will continue to choose from more than 500 destinations across six continents and 25 countries, the enhanced Member Getaways program will offer a significantly broader range of resort experiences, length-of-stay options (including more nightly exchanges) and more.
Members will receive more details by mail and here on the Web site beginning in late December, and the new Vacation Planner is scheduled to begin mailing in the late spring.

To ensure a smooth transition to RCI, Members may continue to confirm available exchanges through the current World Passport Collection through Dec. 31, 2008, and all exchanges booked by that deadline will be honored.'

*Does this mean that they are going to be dual affiliated or drop II? Yikes if they drop II  !!!!!!*


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## Amy

Denise L said:


> *Does this mean that they are going to be dual affiliated or drop II? Yikes if they drop II  !!!!!!*



Thanks for the full text.  There is no way DVC will drop affiliation with II -- not with all the Hyatt, Starwood, Marriott, et al. in the system.  It is good we'll have more options!


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## Denise L

Denise L said:


> "To ensure a smooth transition to RCI, Members may continue to confirm available exchanges through the current World Passport Collection through Dec. 31, 2008, and all exchanges booked by that deadline will be honored."[/B]



This is the line that startled me.  Why make a point that exchanges booked by the deadline of December 31st will be honored  ?

Well, I would never exchange _out of DVC_, but I'd love to exchange _into DVC_ via II  .


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## Amy

Good point -- that line is puzzling.


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## JudyS

*Yikes!!!  DVC is switching to RCI! [MERGED]*

*[First post of the 2nd thread on this topic.-DeniseM]
*
Here is an announcement that I just received from the Disney Vacation Club,  It sounds like Disney is dropping II entirely and going back to RCI, which is whom they used to use for trades.  I feel this is bad news both for DVC members (because RCI's customer service is terrible) and for TUG members who have used II to trade into the DVC.  Frankly, I'm afraid that RCI will just take all of the DVC weeks and rent them out.  Since DVC never deposits more than 11 months out, there is nothing in the new class action settlement to stop RCI from renting out DVC weeks. 

I urge all of my fellow DVC owners here to complain, and request that at the very least, II be kept as an option.  I'm not sure whom we are supposed to complain *to*, but I will try to find out. 

Here is the announcement:
_Disney Vacation Club enhances World Passport Collection

With a growing number of Members exploring a world of vacation destinations beyond their Home Resorts, Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that those Member Getaways exchanges present the best and most diverse experiences possible. It's with this commitment in mind that Disney Vacation Club has formed a relationship with RCI, the world's largest vacation-exchange company, effective Jan. 1, 2009.

While Members will continue to choose from more than 500 destinations across six continents and 25 countries, the enhanced Member Getaways program will offer a significantly broader range of resort experiences, length-of-stay options (including more nightly exchanges) and more.

Members will receive more details by mail and here on the Web site beginning in late December, and the new Vacation Planner is scheduled to begin mailing in the late spring.

To ensure a smooth transition to RCI, *Members may continue to confirm available exchanges through the current World Passport Collection through Dec. 31, 2008, and all exchanges booked by that deadline will be honored.* _  (emphasis mine)


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## DaveNV

It also sounds like it'll just be on the RCI Points side of things.  I'd wager RCI Weeks members (like me) won't get much chance, if any, to get into Disney destinations.  Hmm...  :annoyed: 

Dave


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## gorevs9

Are they dropping II entirely or will just for new owners?  My home resort recently switched from II to RCI, but only for new owners.  It almost sounds like they will convert to an Points Resort.


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## timeos2

*Maybe it is a change back to the bigger system*



Amy said:


> Thanks for the full text.  There is no way DVC will drop affiliation with II -- not with all the Hyatt, Starwood, Marriott, et al. in the system.  It is good we'll have more options!



Actually it does seem to read that this is a switch to RCI - just as they switched to II back in 1998 or 1999 - whenever it was. Remember, unlike a deeded timeshare, you are RTU in DVC and have no say who or how DVC affiliates with and who they don't allow.  At a deeded resort you would be grandfathered to the original exchange company (as Wastegate is with RCI although they too went to II to get perks RCI wouldn't offer them - not the OWNERS of course, the Developer got the perks). But with DVC if they say it's exchange company X - you are stuck. They control it all and you can't get around it by depositing your own time. Total control. One of the things I disliked about DVC.


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## Amy

No matter what the change I would not be affected as I would never use my DVC to exchange outside the system -- not cost effective.  We use or rent.  If DVC switches away from II completely, then I would feel bad for members who do want to use II.  I still don't think it is likely.  Things may have been different back 10 or 20 years ago for II, but now II has the market for the higher end hotel resort groups, so I just can't see DVC disaffiliating itself from II unless there is a move among the other high end hotel timeshare groups (to RCI as well).  I suspect DVC plans to either change the exchanging rules further or change the World Collection further (i.e., drop some existing II resorts and add some RCI resorts) and that may warrant the language Denise pointed out.  We'll see.


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## Mel

I wouldn't worry too much - I believe the class action settlement states that contracts with the resorts/developers take precedence, and I doubt DVC would allow RCI to rent the weeks, unless that's what DVC wants.

As for new vs existing owners, since DVC is a club, and you have to trade through DVC, it is a move to RCI for ALL members.  That's no different than when DVC moved to II many years back.  It does also make sense for it to be part of RCI Points, since it is already a points program.  BUT it will likely be controlled by DVC in much the same way the II relationship is controlled, with members not having full access to the complete list of RCI resorts.

I wonder who else will follow?


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## AwayWeGo

*Dueling Discussion Topics.*

[Alan - I merged all 3 threads.-Thanks, DeniseM]


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## timeos2

Mel said:


> I wouldn't worry too much - I believe the class action settlement states that contracts with the resorts/developers take precedence, and I doubt DVC would allow RCI to rent the weeks, unless that's what DVC wants.
> 
> As for new vs existing owners, since DVC is a club, and you have to trade through DVC, it is a move to RCI for ALL members.  That's no different than when DVC moved to II many years back.  It does also make sense for it to be part of RCI Points, since it is already a points program.  BUT it will likely be controlled by DVC in much the same way the II relationship is controlled, with members not having full access to the complete list of RCI resorts.
> 
> I wonder who else will follow?



Hey, Marriott was RCI too at the start...


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## AwayWeGo

*Mox Nix ?*

Is it still the case that for what DVC owners pay for their DVC timeshares, not many get deposited for exchange in the 1st place ? 

If so, all the I-I to RCI switch means is that RCI can print pictures of DVC timeshares in the RCI _Dream Book_. 

It wouldn't necessarily mean that anybody could actually snag an RCI exchange into a DVC timeshare, weeks or points _mox nix_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## gmarine

If owned DVC I would be very unhappy if II was no longer an option. II has many more high quality resorts on par with DVC than RCI does. 

And I would be really unhappy not being able to trade into DVC though II. I hope II will still be an option. I just received the 2009 II Resort Directory and the DVC resorts are all listed. I hope that means something.


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## buzzy

*DVC drops II [MERGED]*

*[This is the 1st post of the 3rd thread on this topic-DeniseM]*

I just received this announcement via email regarding my DVC.
_
Disney Vacation Club enhances World Passport Collection

With a growing number of Members exploring a world of vacation destinations beyond their Home Resorts, Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that those Member Getaways exchanges present the best and most diverse experiences possible. It's with this commitment in mind that Disney Vacation Club has formed a relationship with RCI, the world's largest vacation-exchange company, effective Jan. 1, 2009.

While Members will continue to choose from more than 500 destinations across six continents and 25 countries, the enhanced Member Getaways program will offer a significantly broader range of resort experiences, length-of-stay options (including more nightly exchanges) and more.

Members will receive more details by mail and here on the Web site beginning in late December, and the new Vacation Planner is scheduled to begin mailing in the late spring.

To ensure a smooth transition to RCI, Members may continue to confirm available exchanges through the current World Passport Collection through Dec. 31, 2008, and all exchanges booked by that deadline will be honored. _

I wonder why?


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## djyamyam

WOW!  RCI must have tossed out some big enticements to get DVC to switch.


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## JudyS

Mel said:


> I wouldn't worry too much - I believe the class action settlement states that contracts with the resorts/developers take precedence, and I doubt DVC would allow RCI to rent the weeks, unless that's what DVC wants....


That is a good point, and I thought of that shortly after I posted -- Disney would probably go ballistic if RCI started competing with them and renting out DVC units for cheap. So, that provides some hope for TUG members who want to trade into DVC.  It's not very helpful for DVC owners, however, who are unlikely to find much, if anything, comparable in RCI.

In fact, after several successful trades _into _Disney via II, I was just considering depositing some DVC points into II and trying to get the Four Seasons.  I've been ill lately and will have to skip my upcoming Four Seasons Aviara trade (that I got with a non-DVC deposit that really shouldn't have qualified for FSA).  So, I was thinking of using some DVC points that expire next spring for a trade to the Four Seasons.  But, if I deposit the DVC points and don't get a match before December 31st, I'm not sure if the DVC points would still qualify for II trades or if they'd only qualify for RCI trades.  So, I probably don't want to deposit them.


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## JudyS

AwayWeGo said:


> Is it still the case that for what DVC owners pay for their DVC timeshares, not many get deposited for exchange in the 1st place ?
> 
> If so, all the I-I to RCI switch means is that RCI can print pictures of DVC timeshares in the RCI _Dream Book_.
> 
> It wouldn't necessarily mean that anybody could actually snag an RCI exchange into a DVC timeshare, weeks or points _mox nix_.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


There were actually substantial deposits of DVC weeks into II, mostly since DVC is so big.  There were at least 15 or so Orlando DVC units sitting online at II earlier today, although they were mostly studios. 

Gorevs9, I agree with Mel, this is almost certainly for ALL owners, as DVC is a "corporate" II member and  DVC contracts do not qualify for individual II accounts.


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## Denise L

I'm hoping that they are only adding RCI for some partial weeks or something. I can't imagine DVC dropping all the name-brand timeshare exchanges.

There are two other threads on TUG on this topic. Here is one:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86245


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## DeniseM

There was a thread started a little earlier on the exchanging board, so I am going to merge the threads to keep the info. all together.


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## timeos2

djyamyam said:


> WOW!  RCI must have tossed out some big enticements to get DVC to switch.



Nah, they just reminded DVC of the QUALITY and SERVICE they used to get before the ill-advised change to II.  They were probably counting the days until they could get out of the deal!  

Seriously, II simply doesn't service resorts/system well.  I know of at least one other large group that had every internal recommendation to leave II and go back to RCI. Then the "top dog" overruled his "advisers" and stuck with II. Sure, he doesn't have to deal with them - the underlings do!  Of course rumor has it that they got a "sweetened deal" to do so. That seems to be the only way II can get/hold on to resorts. Its the way they originally got DVC. Marriott switched because they invested in II. Now that they no longer hold any ownership might they leave too?  Wouldn't surprise me.  

As for quality I've never found II to hold any edge. They do have a few top names but they are so rare as to be virtually unavailable.  Overall the majority of resorts in the II system aren't very good and the quantity available are tiny compared to RCI.  It was a great move using quality as part of their name/slogan but that doesn't make the many poor resorts and times suddenly better.  The old 5 Star / whatever pineapple ranking is meaningless as it's handed out like candy to their favored groups.  

If DVC is moving back to RCI they are in fact returning to quality, not leaving it IMO.


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## AwayWeGo

*Will R. C. I. Exchange Guests Still Be 2nd Class Citz.?*




timeos2 said:


> If DVC is moving back to RCI they are in fact returning to quality, not leaving it IMO.


After the switch, will DVC exchange guests still have to pony up $95 or so in bogus extra charges that renters & owners don't have to pay ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Gordo1111

*they are adding RCI...*

it appears at first glance and I hope this is the case...that they added RCI - period! keeping fingers crossed!

DVC Partners with RCI        
Written by Tim Krasniewski     
Monday, December 01, 2008 05:30PM  
Disney Vacation Club revealed that it has formed a partnership with trading company RCI to add its destinations to the World Passport collection beginning January 1, 2009. 

A statement emailed to members revealed the new partnership: 

With a growing number of Members exploring a world of vacation destinations beyond their Home Resorts, Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that those Member Getaways exchanges present the best and most diverse experiences possible. It's with this commitment in mind that Disney Vacation Club has formed a relationship with RCI, the world's largest vacation-exchange company, effective Jan. 1, 2009. 
It remains to be seen how this move may impact DVC's long-standing relationship with Interval International.  More to come.


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## GrayFal

I am going over to see what they are saying on the DIS

http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28


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## shellbelle

*subscribing*

I just want to keep posted on this--as more info becomes available, it should show up here. 

If DVC dumps II, we will be very, very unhappy. We own Marriotts that we have used occasionally to trade into DVC and DVC that we have occasionally used to trade out through II. We have looked into some RCI options and found the quality of the resorts to be, generally, lacking. 

So through RCI DVC has added a bunch of resorts that I would never care to visit. And they've added a bunch of competition (to my II/Marriott properties) from RCI members looking to trade in to DVC. I lose both ways. 

But the HUGE loss to me will be if/when DVC dumps II entirely. If that happens, we'll sell all the dvc (except one 25 point contract) and buy more marriott or some starwood.


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## shellbelle

*Just got off the phone w an II Marriott rep...*

He said that he's showing plenty of DVC availability through 2011, and that they haven't heard anything at all about DVC dropping II. He suggested that maybe DVC is just adding RCI, so you can choose to use either network. 

Here's hoping...


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## tug15

*Here's hoping they're adding RCI..an enhancement to Interval International...*

Would be nice having both choices!

Here's hoping!


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## bnoble

> He said that he's showing plenty of DVC availability through 2011


Interesting, seeing as how DVC only deposits 11 months in advance...


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## gmarine

I feel terrible that I might not be able to trade into DVC but I feel worse for the DVC members who may be stuck with RCI. 

With no Marriotts,Hyatts,Westins,Four Seasons or Harborside how can a DVC member get a comparable exchange using RCI ? Very few RCI resorts even come close to the II offerings.


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## tomandrobin

gmarine said:


> I feel terrible that I might not be able to trade into DVC but I feel worse for the DVC members who may be stuck with RCI.
> 
> With no Marriotts,Hyatts,Westins,Four Seasons or Harborside how can a DVC member get a comparable exchange using RCI ? Very few RCI resorts even come close to the II offerings.



I agree. All you have to do is look at the top 100 resorts here on TUG. Only three RCI resorts are in the top 20.


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## rsackett

Since I did not get an AC for my Manor Club this year I've been toying with the Idea of dropping II after I use my 2008 Deposit at Grande Ocean in April.  If I can not trade into DVC it may be the push I need to drop my II membership and give the independents a try.

Ray


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## Amy

shellbelle said:


> So through RCI DVC has added a bunch of resorts that I would never care to visit. And they've added a bunch of competition (to my II/Marriott properties) from RCI members looking to trade in to DVC. I lose both ways.



Just wait and see; I'm sure DVC would not be adding all RCI resorts to the exchange list.  Even now not all II resorts are available via DVC trades either.  DVC tends to watch out for its members' interest.  Or, to put it more cynically, DVC knows it wouldnt' want members to exchange into resorts that are not going to be considered somewhat comparable because it'll then have to deal with complaints from members.


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## FLYNZ4

I wonder if DVC has made a deal with RCI to not rent out any of the DVC properties.   We all know that Disney hates competition... and it is hard to imagine them tollerating RCI renting out the inventory in direct competition to Disney's CRO.    We can see the strong anti-rental policies that DVC has taken against DVC members.   I cannot imagine that they would let the corporate world enter the DVC rental business.

Also... for those of us who like to trade into DVC.    II does not have a 1 in 4 rule.    It seems to me that this could be bad for us wanting to exchange through RCI.   I own DVC, but often exchange in, and then cancel any overlapping days.   I have had 5 inbound DVC II exchanges in the past 2 years.

/Jim


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## Jbart74

Amy said:


> Just wait and see; I'm sure DVC would not be adding all RCI resorts to the exchange list.  Even now not all II resorts are available via DVC trades either.  DVC tends to watch out for its members' interest.  Or, to put it more cynically, DVC knows it wouldnt' want members to exchange into resorts that are not going to be considered somewhat comparable because it'll then have to deal with complaints from members.



This thread is cracking me up!  I have no desire to visit an overpriced theme park while on a TS vacation, but the fact that you DVC guys and gals are so upset about this just makes me giggle a little.  Welcome to our new economy.  The Mouse has made a move to RCI, or returned, as some have previously mentioned, because they know where the money is.  As a longtime RCI exchanger, I think it's great!  Welcome back!  We just love having you!  Most of us really don't want to visit DVC properties.  If we did, we'd be in II or DVC owners, right?  Relax.  It's all good.  No one is going to sweep in and take away your vacations.  The Mouse just knows where the cheese is, and I'm happy that I never left the Cheese!  RCI has been great to us, over and over again.  In fact, we RCI diehards should be afraid of you because when your kids grow up, you really won't care about the parks, and waterslides, and lazy rivers anymore.  You'll want a nice, relaxing, adult oriented timeshare like we've been enjoying through RCI all along.  Hmmm  There's something to think about....


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## Amy

Jbart74 said:


> In fact, we RCI diehards should be afraid of you because when your kids grow up, you really won't care about the parks, and waterslides, and lazy rivers anymore.  You'll want a nice, relaxing, adult oriented timeshare like we've been enjoying through RCI all along.  Hmmm  There's something to think about....



Some of us were Disney diehards before kids and will probably want to stay at DVCs more often when the kids are grown and no longer interested in joining mom and dad; we definitely would find it more relaxing to not have the kids along.   

That said, I do agree the anxiety is unwarranted right now.  I for one am not anxious; I'm more curious, as we would never exchange DVC since it does not make $ sense.  We use cheap traders for exchanging.


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## linsj

gmarine said:


> With no Marriotts,Hyatts,Westins,Four Seasons or Harborside how can a DVC member get a comparable exchange using RCI ? Very few RCI resorts even come close to the II offerings.



Well, Hiltons do; but I don't know how many are deposited into RCI.


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## joestein

Wow, this stinks.  We are confirmed for a 1 bdrm in OKW in May, it will probably be our last exchange into DVC.  

I hope I don't have any problem with the exchange.  I am going to call Disney this week and pay them the money for the exchange.

Joe


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## gmarine

joestein said:


> Wow, this stinks.  We are confirmed for a 1 bdrm in OKW in May, it will probably be our last exchange into DVC.
> 
> I hope I don't have any problem with the exchange.  I am going to call Disney this week and pay them the money for the exchange.
> 
> Joe



You dont pay the $95 fee in advance anymore. It is added to your room account on check in.


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## gmarine

I spoke to two people at DVC member services. Bad news for II members and worse news for DVC members.

DVC will not be dual affiliated. RCI is replacing II.


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## cdziuba

This is really bad news.  We've traded into DVCs at least 22 times with regular and Bonus weeks, never stayed in anything less than a 1bdr.  It makes me wonder if Disney is trying to encourage people to buy points packages instead of trading in.

 RCI...a company with abysmal customer service, untrustworthy practices, and MUCH less desirable resorts is a company I would never deal with again.  I really feel sorry for DVC owners who might tire of DVCs every year and want to exchange out.  The small number of quality resorts affiliated with RCI will surely hugely disappoint them.


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## JAKEANDERIC

It's not all gloom and doom for us DVC owners.... I just rent out my DVC points and rent a reservation from an owner at a resort I want, (and save an exchange fee, in the process  )


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## littlestar

JAKEANDERIC said:


> It's not all gloom and doom for us DVC owners.... I just rent out my DVC points and rent a reservation from an owner at a resort I want, (and save an exchange fee, in the process  )



Exactly!    This is good news for people who rent points.


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## ondeadlin

If you own Worldmark points, it's the best of both worlds - you'll have great trading power to chase DVC in RCI, and you won't have to compete with Marriott owners for the availability.

Only negative is you'll have to pay II and RCI membership fees if you want to keep chasing Marriotts in II.


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## lawgs

*II Knows nothing....DVC Member Services says Jan 2, 2009*

just called II... the people i spoke to their ( front line and supervisor ) have been given no indication that DVC is ceasing their relationship with DVC

however, as stated above the member services are being trained in the new system and the date they state is Jan 02 2009 ....DVC will no longer be affiliated with II

and the world turns and twists....

just called RCI to see if they have any further information:

Jan 01 2009 is the date they say DVC comes on board, they do not know how the affiliation will be implemented ie RCI Weeks or RCI Points

when asked if RCI members will be able to trade into DVC ...she said from the information that she has, at first RCI  members will be able to do so via *"RENTALS" * until the process gets rolling and DVC members exchange into the RCI system to make availability for exchangers....

very interesting......


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## jmatias

This press release was posted on the disboards:

_Group RCI, the global leader in vacation exchange, and Disney Vacation Club, one of the world's most innovative and fastest-growing brands in the vacation-ownership industry, announced today a new multi-year affiliation relationship. This new agreement allows subscribing members access to a broad array of exciting vacation opportunities. 

Effective January 1, 2009, RCI will become the exclusive third-party exchange provider for Disney Vacation Club, enrolling Disney Vacation Club's more than 135,000 member families into RCI's global exchange network. RCI has one of the most expansive portfolios of high-end affiliated vacation resorts, as well as more choices in more countries than any other exchange network. 

Disney Vacation Club Members will be able to enjoy vacations at a variety of destinations across six continents and 25 countries and will have access to a significantly broader range of resort experiences, including more all-inclusive options, more nightly exchanges than ever before and even a selection of luxurious, high-end fractional properties. 

Similarly, RCI's more than 3.6 million members will now also enjoy the opportunity to exchange into Disney Vacation Club resorts and may rent at Disney Vacation Club resorts throughout the year. 

"Group RCI has the management depth, technology resources and global marketing infrastructure to align with Disney Vacation Club's strategic growth plan," said DVC President Jim Lewis. "This relationship will provide our member families with the most diverse experiences possible beyond our signature Disney Vacation Club resorts." 

Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI, notes that the company is looking forward to working with Disney Vacation Club and its member families in the coming years. 

"It's an honor for all of us at Group RCI to have been selected by one of the most internationally recognized and revered brands on the planet," commented Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI. "For more than 50 years, Disney has been offering unique family vacation experiences with legendary service, superb accommodations and magical touches at every turn. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome Disney Vacation Club members into the world's largest vacation network and we look forward to working closely with Disney Vacation Club to continue to build new and innovative programs that will provide even more member benefits and opportunities."_


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## tombo

II has always touted their high quality resorts based on having DVC and Marriott. With DVC gone the number of high quality II resorts has dropped, and the bragging rights of having DVC is gone too. If Mariott pulls out of II too (as has been rumored), then II will be almost worthless. Now Marriott has a trading advantage for their own resorts and little else through II, so they might actually form their own trade program as has been rumored.

Before the DVC owners get too upset, the main thing you are losing is access to Marriott (after Mariott owners choose what they want first). Overall RCI has most of the available II locations plus a lot more that II doesn't have. In my area of the country (southeast), RCI always has had better choices at more locations. In gatlinburg RCI exchangers can stay in every II afilliated resort offered except for Westgate, however II exchangers have numerous RCI resorts they can't exchange in to including Crown Park and Wyndham etc. Same thing in Panama City and Destin. Every II resort that is oceanfront is also available to RCI members, however there are numerous resorts on the ocean not available to II that can be exchanged in to by RCI including, Intrawest Sandestin resort, the new Wyndham Panama City, and the Wyndhams in Destin. II has the Marriott legends edge (which is a good 20 minute ride from the beach) which is about the only resort in the area they can lay claim to that RCI can't trade in to.

I might trade for a DVC through RCI sometime if it is a good week I could use, but it will not be a high priority trade for me. Please put me in the TUG category that hates the overpriced Rodent World with the boring kiddie rides. The only reason I would trade for a DVC is because they are supposed to be really nice, but I hope to never set foot in a Disney park again in my life. Conversely, Islands of Adventure, Sea World, and best of all Busch Gardens will possibly get my money again because they have some awesome thrill rides. Disney has a devoted fan base, but there are plenty of people who went one time and said once was more than enough. If the main advantage of staying at DVC is Disney perks (early entrance to the parks etc), then don't worry about fighting me for available RCI DVC trades. I will leave them for the Disney lovers.


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## Amy

jmatias said:


> This press release was posted on the disboards:
> 
> _Group RCI, the global leader in vacation exchange, and Disney Vacation Club, one of the world's most innovative and fastest-growing brands in the vacation-ownership industry, announced today a new multi-year affiliation relationship. This new agreement allows subscribing members access to a broad array of exciting vacation opportunities.
> 
> Effective January 1, 2009, RCI will become the exclusive third-party exchange provider for Disney Vacation Club, enrolling Disney Vacation Club's more than 135,000 member families into RCI's global exchange network. RCI has one of the most expansive portfolios of high-end affiliated vacation resorts, as well as more choices in more countries than any other exchange network.
> 
> Disney Vacation Club Members will be able to enjoy vacations at a variety of destinations across six continents and 25 countries and will have access to a significantly broader range of resort experiences, including more all-inclusive options, more nightly exchanges than ever before and even a selection of luxurious, high-end fractional properties.
> 
> Similarly, RCI's more than 3.6 million members will now also enjoy the opportunity to exchange into Disney Vacation Club resorts and may rent at Disney Vacation Club resorts throughout the year.
> 
> "Group RCI has the management depth, technology resources and global marketing infrastructure to align with Disney Vacation Club's strategic growth plan," said DVC President Jim Lewis. "This relationship will provide our member families with the most diverse experiences possible beyond our signature Disney Vacation Club resorts."
> 
> Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI, notes that the company is looking forward to working with Disney Vacation Club and its member families in the coming years.
> 
> "It's an honor for all of us at Group RCI to have been selected by one of the most internationally recognized and revered brands on the planet," commented Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI. "For more than 50 years, Disney has been offering unique family vacation experiences with legendary service, superb accommodations and magical touches at every turn. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome Disney Vacation Club members into the world's largest vacation network and we look forward to working closely with Disney Vacation Club to continue to build new and innovative programs that will provide even more member benefits and opportunities."_



I saw this on the DIS board thread, but no mention of the source.  If true, then I'm truly surprised!!!  Maybe more opportunities for DVC owners to do direct exchanges with Marriott, Starwood, Four Seasons, et al. now.


----------



## Carl D

Jbart74 said:


> This thread is cracking me up!  I have no desire to visit an overpriced theme park while on a TS vacation, but the fact that you DVC guys and gals are so upset about this just makes me giggle a little.  Welcome to our new economy.  The Mouse has made a move to RCI, or returned, as some have previously mentioned, because they know where the money is.  As a longtime RCI exchanger, I think it's great!  Welcome back!  We just love having you!  Most of us really don't want to visit DVC properties.  If we did, we'd be in II or DVC owners, right?  Relax.  It's all good.  No one is going to sweep in and take away your vacations.  The Mouse just knows where the cheese is, and I'm happy that I never left the Cheese!  RCI has been great to us, over and over again.  In fact, we RCI diehards should be afraid of you because when your kids grow up, you really won't care about the parks, and waterslides, and lazy rivers anymore.  You'll want a nice, relaxing, adult oriented timeshare like we've been enjoying through RCI all along.  Hmmm  There's something to think about....


This post seems like it came out of left field. Nowhere did I read DVC Members, especially Amy, complaining about others taking our resort time.

In addition, I have absolutely zero desire to take a long vacation at any other destination.
I have visited every large US city, many small US towns, and many other cities & towns throughout North America. While I find many places very nice and would love to spend a few days there, I couldn't imagine filling two weeks there.

As for "more adult orientated" places... well, you just aren't looking in the right places. Disney is not all about the Dumbo Elephant ride, or meeting Cinderella. My wife and I have been visiting WDW for many years, and have never done either. 

In conclusion, it's impossible for me to care any less about this one. I have never, and will probably never in the future, trade my DVC for non Disney accommodations.


----------



## joestein

gmarine said:


> You dont pay the $95 fee in advance anymore. It is added to your room account on check in.



When did this start?  I paid the $95 fee in advance last year.  Are they going to set up your Magical Express without the fee?

Joe


----------



## tashamen

joestein said:


> When did this start?  I paid the $95 fee in advance last year.  Are they going to set up your Magical Express without the fee?



Yes, you can call and set up the Magical Express in advance without paying the fee until you check in.  I did that for my visit this October.


----------



## wuv pooh

Amy said:


> I saw this on the DIS board thread, but no mention of the source.  If true, then I'm truly surprised!!!  Maybe more opportunities for DVC owners to do direct exchanges with Marriott, Starwood, Four Seasons, et al. now.



It is the RCI press release:

http://www.grouprci.com/media_center/pr/show_release.cfm?id=190


----------



## bnoble

> When did this start? I paid the $95 fee in advance last year


I want to say it was around the first of this year, give or take.


----------



## Mom Poppins

I just got back in November and did not pay until we checked in.  When we went in June we paid it ahead of time.


----------



## shellbelle

bnoble said:


> Interesting, seeing as how DVC only deposits 11 months in advance...



Yeah, you're right. My bad for repeating what must have been bad information. Sorry!


----------



## jerseygirl

cdziuba said:


> This is really bad news.  We've traded into DVCs at least 22 times with regular and Bonus weeks, never stayed in anything less than a 1bdr.  It makes me wonder if Disney is trying to encourage people to buy points packages instead of trading in.



I suspect this has a lot to do with it.  I too have traded into Disney resorts at least 15-20 times.  I'm glad that my dd has finally tired of the place -- we have one last upcoming exchange into Wilderness Lodge (one-BR, prime Spring Break week) that I picked up because I've always wanted to see the resort.  

How much do you want to bet there will be a "1 in 4/5" rule?


----------



## MuranoJo

"Effective January 1, 2009, RCI will become the exclusive third-party exchange provider for Disney Vacation Club, enrolling Disney Vacation Club’s more than 135,000 member families into RCI’s global exchange network." 

So what does this mean to non-DVC members who are current RCI members?  Do we have access to DVC resorts, or do they just have access to our units within RCI?  Of course, most of us would not have trade power to pull DVC.

I just can't imagine...seems like another run on RCI weeks without reciprocation.


----------



## mecllap

I recently got an II exchange into a one-bedroom at SSR for next June -- guess I just sqeaked in in time (at least I expect that will be honored, since it was prior to the announcement).  One of the reasons we went for the timeshare we have was a hope/"promise" of being able to exchange into DVC.  Oh well -- good old Caveat Emptor at work again.

(And yes, it was a developer purchase pre-learning about TUG and resales -- fortunately we've had some enjoyable getaways and exchanges and are happy with it -- we love our home resort [and now, with the recession, I know that if I hadn't spent the money on the timeshare unit, it would have been sitting in the mutual fund and pretty much have disappeared anyway!].  In the time we've had our unit, not very many west-side resales on Grand Cayman have come up; at least when I've checked -- they are pretty common on the east-side, but we don't really want to be over there.)

I'm still holding out a little hope that DVC will retain dual availability with both II and RCI-- which some places have.  If not, we'll be happy with other nice places in Orlando -- we rarely stay "on property" anyway, because we can drive down in a day or two and prefer getting around by car.


----------



## JudyS

tombo said:


> ....
> Before the DVC owners get too upset, the main thing you are losing is access to Marriott (after Mariott owners choose what they want first)....


And most of the Royals in Cancun. And the Four Seasons.  And Harborside at Atlantis.  And Westin St. John (which admittedly hardly ever comes up anyway.)

Of the top 10 rated resorts in TUG, all 10 are in II.  (This includes some DVC resorts themselves, which of course will be leaving now.)  Only 2 of the Top 10 are dual-affiliated with RCI. Of the top 30 rated resorts in TUG, 3 are dual affiliated,  5 are RCI only and all the others are II only (again, not counting DVC resorts themselves.)  And, of the 5 RCI-only resorts in the Top 30, only 2 (Big Cedar Wilderness and the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta) seem to attract a lot of interest from TUGgers.  The others are very small (Tradewinds Cruise Club) or not conveniently located (Canary Islands.) Making things worse, Big Cedar has hardly any inventory in RCI, and there is a 1-in-5 rule covering all of the Grupo Mayan resorts, so RCI members can only go to any of them twice a decade. 




mecllap said:


> ...
> I'm still holding out a little hope that DVC will retain dual availability with both II and RCI-- which some places have....


DVC has said they will be RCI only.  In fact, I called today about depositing some expiring DVC points into II, and was told that DVC had already stopped taking ongoing requests in II.  

I do think there is a chance that DVC will switch back, if they get enough complaints from members.  But, I wouldn't expect it to be anytime soon.


----------



## icydog

JudyS said:


> And most of the Royals in Cancun. And the Four Seasons.  And Harborside at Atlantis.  And Westin St. John (which admittedly hardly ever comes up anyway.)
> 
> Of the top 10 rated resorts in TUG, all 10 are in II.  (This includes some DVC resorts themselves, which of course will be leaving now.)  Only 2 of the Top 10 are dual-affiliated with RCI. Of the top 30 rated resorts in TUG, 3 are dual affiliated,  5 are RCI only and all the others are II only (again, not counting DVC resorts themselves.)  And, of the 5 RCI-only resorts in the Top 30, only 2 (Big Cedar Wilderness and the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta) seem to attract a lot of interest from TUGgers.  The others are very small (Tradewinds Cruise Club) or not conveniently located (Canary Islands.) Making things worse, Big Cedar has hardly any inventory in RCI, and there is a 1-in-5 rule covering all of the Grupo Mayan resorts, so RCI members can only go to any of them twice a decade.
> 
> 
> DVC has said they will be RCI only.  In fact, I called today about depositing some expiring DVC points into II, and was told that DVC had already stopped taking ongoing requests in II.
> 
> I do think there is a chance that DVC will switch back, if they get enough complaints from members.  But, I wouldn't expect it to be anytime soon.




I called Nicole Florio, who is the DVC Member Satisfaction Manager. I was furious. There are NO resorts in RCI that can compete with DVC. All of the top resorts are in II. I can only guess that parties in the DVC organization might have benefited from this. Otherwise why  would they do this. They are undervaluing Disney by putting DVC in with subpar resorts. None compare in cost of maintenance fees, none in amenities, none in service, none in buy in price, none in value, and none in quality. 

I invited Nicole to do a Google Search under _Class Action Suit and RCI._ I told her about them selling weeks, their lower quality resorts, their non service etc, but she seemed immune to my protestations. She said they, DVC, were going to give RCI a chance, and that RCI would bring more opportunities to members for different types of vacations like, all inclusive resorts, like anyone cares, cruises, and most importantly, daily use of resorts. 

I told her I was upset that I would not be able to exchange into DVC with high quality resorts, like Marriotts, that cost the same as DVC and that have similar maintenance fees. I told her the only resort of value in RCI is the Manhattan Club and that is not that valuable either. *She said DVC would NOT be Using II in the Future.* 

She said that they (DVC) had done its homework and had been offered a wonderful contract from RCI. She told me to try it out since this was the way DVC was going in the future. I hung up and felt sick to my stomach.


----------



## ocdb8r

*Wow...*

Here is a link to the above posted Press Release.  Just to confirm it is legit....

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Group-RCI-Disney-Vacation-Club/story.aspx?guid={CD71FFDB-675B-4377-BF87-51498D3944EE}

My take:  I don't have a lot of experience with RCI but my impression is that is offers a much wider selection of resorts - certainly more international options.  With that benefit comes a couple of concerns: 1) More resorts (usually)means a wider range of quality.  There's been some back and forth about which system offers better quality.  I think the reality is that they both do but RCI offers a wider range of options and thus some have the impression it is lower quality - I don't buy it.  2) The brand factor.  Related to #1, the one benefit of the II resorts is that many of them have the "branding."  For me, that means it is easier to know what is a safe trade.  If I see a Marriott or Starwood resort, I can be fairly confident of the quality of the resort.  For small independents, it's very hit and miss.  I have very little trust in the RCI and II supposed rating system so if I start using RCI I'll have to do a lot more work  on researching resorts to trade.


----------



## ondeadlin

Sounds like RCI really cut DVC a great deal behind the scenes, and Disney is under serious financial pressure right now (just heard a story on NPR this morning about how, for the first time every, the parks are really being crushed by the recession).

All that said, this is short-term thinking that will come back to bite them.

As soon as DVC members start exchanging into RCI resorts and encounter the huge quality gap, complaints will go through the roof.

I expect they'll be back with II eventually, but not very quickly, because there's no doubt been a contract signed. Five years would be my prediction.


----------



## bnoble

> As soon as DVC members start exchanging into RCI resorts and encounter the huge quality gap, complaints will go through the roof.


I'm not entirely sure.  I suspect that DVC will limit the set of resorts their members can "see", just as they did with Interval.  That will keep out the worst of the riff-raff.


----------



## ricoba

As a HGVC owner, I am sort of annoyed with y'all who think that all of us who are linked to RCI are a bunch of country bumpkins and only stay in converted motels!  

In my not so humble opinion, Hilton ranks right up there with other hotel clubs, but I will admit we have a lack of locations.   As well, the trades that I have had through RCI, have been quite nice and very pleasant resorts....and none were converted, run down or trashed former motels!


----------



## icydog

*Disney Press Release on New RCI affliation*

*[New thread starts here.-DeniseM]*

Press Release:

Quote:
Group RCI, the global leader in vacation exchange, and Disney Vacation Club, one of the world's most innovative and fastest-growing brands in the vacation-ownership industry, announced today a new multi-year affiliation relationship. This new agreement allows subscribing members access to a broad array of exciting vacation opportunities. 

Effective January 1, 2009, RCI will become the exclusive third-party exchange provider for Disney Vacation Club, enrolling Disney Vacation Club's more than 135,000 member families into RCI's global exchange network. RCI has one of the most expansive portfolios of high-end affiliated vacation resorts, as well as more choices in more countries than any other exchange network. 

Disney Vacation Club Members will be able to enjoy vacations at a variety of destinations across six continents and 25 countries and will have access to a significantly broader range of resort experiences, including more all-inclusive options, more nightly exchanges than ever before and even a selection of luxurious, high-end fractional properties. 

*Similarly, RCI's more than 3.6 million members will now also enjoy the opportunity to exchange into Disney Vacation Club resorts and may rent at Disney Vacation Club resorts throughout the year. *

*"Group RCI has the management depth, technology resources and global marketing infrastructure to align with Disney Vacation Club's strategic growth plan," said DVC President Jim Lewis. "This relationship will provide our member families with the most diverse experiences possible beyond our signature Disney Vacation Club resorts." *

Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI, notes that the company is looking forward to working with Disney Vacation Club and its member families in the coming years. 

"It's an honor for all of us at Group RCI to have been selected by one of the most internationally recognized and revered brands on the planet," commented Geoff Ballotti, President and CEO of Group RCI. "For more than 50 years, Disney has been offering unique family vacation experiences with legendary service, superb accommodations and magical touches at every turn. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome Disney Vacation Club members into the world's largest vacation network and we look forward to working closely with Disney Vacation Club to continue to build new and innovative programs that will provide even more member benefits and opportunities."

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Similarly, RCI's more than 3.6 million members will now also enjoy the opportunity to exchange into Disney Vacation Club resorts and may rent at Disney Vacation Club resorts throughout the year. *

*"Group RCI has the management depth, technology resources and global marketing infrastructure to align with Disney Vacation Club's strategic growth plan," said DVC President Jim Lewis. "This relationship will provide our member families with the most diverse experiences possible beyond our signature Disney Vacation Club resorts." *


It's all about Marketing. New meat to attend presentations. New people to buy the product. Nothing gets done until something is sold and, with the new RCI presence, and its likely one in four rule, Disney will have the opportunity to sell more points to more folks. Its the economy, and the mindset away from customer satisfaction and toward corporate greed.


----------



## tombo

JudyS said:


> And most of the Royals in Cancun. And the Four Seasons.  And Harborside at Atlantis.  And Westin St. John (which admittedly hardly ever comes up anyway.)
> 
> Of the top 10 rated resorts in TUG, all 10 are in II.  (This includes some DVC resorts themselves, which of course will be leaving now.)  Only 2 of the Top 10 are dual-affiliated with RCI. Of the top 30 rated resorts in TUG, 3 are dual affiliated,  5 are RCI only and all the others are II only (again, not counting DVC resorts themselves.)  And, of the 5 RCI-only resorts in the Top 30, only 2 (Big Cedar Wilderness and the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta) seem to attract a lot of interest from TUGgers.  The others are very small (Tradewinds Cruise Club) or not conveniently located (Canary Islands.) Making things worse, Big Cedar has hardly any inventory in RCI, and there is a 1-in-5 rule covering all of the Grupo Mayan resorts, so RCI members can only go to any of them twice a decade.



Of the top 10, 2 are Disney Resorts which will now be RCI, and 5 are Royals in Mexico (one of which exchanges with RCI). Unless you want to go to Mexico every year you will only lose 4 Royals in the top 10 (that is 4 of the same thing in the same county, not a big loss since one is available through RCI), and you will lose 2 -4 seasons resorts out of the top 10. So in RCI you will be able to stay in top 10 resorts in Orlando (on Disney property),Mexico (at one of the royals II has 5 of), and Beaver Creek Colorado (where you can walk to the ski lifts). With II you will be able to stay in Carlsbad Ca (not even on the ocean), Scottsdale AZ (great if you like golf), and Mexico. I like RCI's top ten choices better than II's.

Out of the next 20, 7 will be RCI. Of the other 13 left in II, 8 are Marriotts (which you could only exchange into after Marriott owners had chosen the best weeks for themselves due to their II trade advantage). So as I said the main thing you are losing is picked over Marriott inventory. If Marriott starts their own exchange and pulls out of II, you will be even happier that DVC moved to RCI.

You are focusing on the top 30 where most resorts have always had very limited exchanges available at prime times.  If you don't own a top 30 resort, how many years do you actually stay in one of those? Overall RCI has almost double the number of II resorts (4700 RCI vs 2400 in II),  and RCI has many more locations than II. To see how many more resorts you get in RCI over II, pull up the Smokey Mountains (24 in RCI, 12 in II), the Florida Panhandle(20 in rci,11 in II), the Florida Keys (11 in RCI,5 in II),and please try comparisons at other locations to compare both the number of resorts available, and the actual resorts themselves. RCI will have almost every resort that II offers (except for Marriott's, Hyatts) to trade for in most areas of the country, but RCI will offer many additional resorts you can't trade for in II. Do a side by side comparison and see. Many II people don't look at anything but Marriott, DVC, and Hyatts when comparing the exchange companies, but in many area of the USA, parts of the Caribbean, several areas in Hawaii, and numerous places in the rest of the world, II doesn't offer a single option that you can't get through RCI, and RCI will give you many options you never had through II.The sky is not falling, you have been forced into a better trading company than II by DVC.


----------



## icydog

*Please make your voice heard*

For those who wish to complain, and I already did, you can do so to *Jim Lewis, President DVC, 407-566-3830* *AND *t*o Nicole Florio, DVC Customer Satisfaction Manager, 321-939-4498.
*
ALSO, YOU CAN USE THIS EMAIL ADDRESS TO COMPLAIN: members@disneyvacationclub.com


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## bnoble

Marylyn, how long have you been going to Disney?

If you are only now discovering that the Rat is mostly interested in money, you've not been paying attention.  Remember, this is the company that convinced Florida to _give it its own governmental entity_ so that it didn't have to worry about those pesky zoning laws.


----------



## elaine

*am I the ONLY one who noticed the "MAY RENT DVC"?*

what's this RCI members "may rent" DVC?  So, RCI members with top traders will (ALSO) be afforded the chance to RENT DVC--how great for me with a good trader---I can rent instead of trading!


----------



## bnoble

Unless Disney has rocks for brains, they negotiated a deal that allows them to control the pricing, using RCI as a front for Central Reservations.  Remember: Disney is very much not fond of competition.

There are a couple of other arrangements like this already in RCI---there's a whole-ownership development in Davenport that uses RCI as a front for its own rental operation.


----------



## ondeadlin

tombo said:


> Out of the next 20, 7 will be RCI. Of the other 13 left in II, 8 are Marriotts (which you could only exchange into after Marriott owners had chosen the best weeks for themselves due to their II trade advantage). So as I said the main thing you are losing is picked over Marriott inventory. If Marriott starts their own exchange and pulls out of II, you will be even happier that DVC moved to RCI.
> 
> You are focusing on the top 30 where most resorts have always had very limited exchanges available at prime times.  If you don't own a top 30 resort, how many years do you actually stay in one of those?
> 
> ... The sky is not falling, you have been forced into a better trading company than II by DVC.



These statements are so far off as to qualify as propaganda.

First off, there is so much Marriott stock that almost anyone can trade into the Marriott they want if they're patient. I regularly get Marriott ski weeks with non-Marriotts, which is supposed to be impossible.

Marriott, Hyatt, Starwood, etc. the quality and availability at II is so much better than RCI that it's almost a different product.

There is no way a DVC owner will like the switch.

Why would he, when he can buy a cheap RCI trader or RCI points at a much lower cost and get the same (limited) trade opportunities.


----------



## Polly Metallic

Well there goes the great deals of using my II accomodation certificates for DVC vacations at $199.00 to $249.00. No doubt that's the idea behind this. DVC is starting to become like all the other Orlando timeshare projects which just keep building, and building and building. It used to be hard to pull a trade into DVC or use a bonus week there, but now that they have several resorts, and some very large ones like Saratoga Springs, it was getting fairly easy to grab a DVC unit. All of this will go away now. There will probably be very few trades, and Disney and DVC will rent all excess inventory. I'm glad I just spent a week at the Beach Club a couple weeks ago, because I dropped my RCI membership about a year ago, and now if I want to stay at DVC I'll need to rent directly from an owner. While I like DVC and staying on property, there are plenty of other great resorts in the area, so I can live without it, and can get my on-site fix by staying at any of the hotels an extra couple days before or after my timeshare week.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Walt Disney Spared No Expense To Make Money.*




bnoble said:


> Remember, this is the company that convinced Florida to _give it its own governmental entity_ so that it didn't have to worry about those pesky zoning laws.


That's exactly right. 

Click here for a TUG-BBS entry about a book that tells the whole story. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## timeos2

*Until you try it don't knock it*



ricoba said:


> As a HGVC owner, I am sort of annoyed with y'all who think that all of us who are linked to RCI are a bunch of country bumpkins and only stay in converted motels!
> 
> In my not so humble opinion, Hilton ranks right up there with other hotel clubs, but I will admit we have a lack of locations.   As well, the trades that I have had through RCI, have been quite nice and very pleasant resorts....and none were converted, run down or trashed former motels!



They believe the rumors and haven't used RCI or they would know the quality and selection is much better than in II.  For one thing if you want quality you can safely pick an RCI Silver or Gold Crown and KNOW it will be a great resort. The Pineapple Rind/old 5* "award" in II gave no such assurance as they seemingly assigned them not on quality but if they were a favored resort/group or not. Many 5* wouldn't have been a standard RCI resort (although some where top notch - just no guarantee based on the ranking). 

Both systems have more than their share of small, run down resorts and/or converted motels.  II has more on a percentage of total resorts than RCI. but both also have a top tier group and, again, based on total numbers RCI would have the edge in percentage. Naturally each has a few that are exclusive and, in name brands, II has had an edge as they really pull ot the stops to capture "the names".  But their service is poor - especially on the resort/group level - and this may not be the last defection from II we see. 

I know overall my satisfaction in direct comparison of the two systems is with RCI despite some of their policies/actions. They get what I want, when I want and with a quality level I can rely on. II did none of that when we were paying members so my preference is easy. RCI all the way.


----------



## bnoble

> Why would he, when he can buy a cheap RCI trader or RCI points at a much lower cost and get the same (limited) trade opportunities.


He could have done that in Interval, too---I know, because I own several.  On that score, nothing has changed.


----------



## ondeadlin

RCI/II debate aside, we're neighbors!

Don't totally disagree with your point - it's what I do - but II's quality filter makes the strategy somewhat harder in that system and, again, there's simply more high-quality inventory in II (imo).


----------



## rickandcindy23

ondeadlin said:


> Sounds like RCI really cut DVC a great deal behind the scenes, and Disney is under serious financial pressure right now (just heard a story on NPR this morning about how, for the first time every, the parks are really being crushed by the recession).
> 
> All that said, this is short-term thinking that will come back to bite them.
> 
> As soon as DVC members start exchanging into RCI resorts and encounter the huge quality gap, complaints will go through the roof.
> 
> I expect they'll be back with II eventually, but not very quickly, because there's no doubt been a contract signed. Five years would be my prediction.



The contracts are ten years.  

I don't think the change is so terrible, but we own RCI points, and I believe that is where all the DVC inventory will be.  There is a cheap way to get RCI points, through Club Trinidad (isn't that the name of Bill's resort?), and he is going to have the product, for those who are interested.  

No sense crying over spilled milk.  My timeshare portfolio is in a constant state of change.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Luxury Timeshare Accommodations At Motel 6 & Super 8 Rates.*




timeos2 said:


> RCI all the way.


Using various non-branded timeshares as RCI trade bait, we've exchanged into HGVC Sea World (September 2004 or maybe 2005 -- it gets hard to remember), BlueGreen's Resort At Golf World Village (January 2008), Sheraton's Vistana Orlando (January 2003), & Club IntraWest Sandestin (January 2009). 

Via RCI, we've traded into other timeshares as well, including 1 (The Colonnade, Branson MO) that _is_ a converted hotel & is still very nice. 

I'm not ready to make a hard & fast pronouncement, but I am starting to suspect that the quality difference between the prestige high-end timeshares on the 1 hand & just the regular timeshares on the other hand might not always be everything it's cracked up to be. 

We have about $5*,*500 tied up in 4 (resale) timeshares.  It's hard to imagine that somebody who has 7 or 8 times that much money tied up in 1 top-rated timeshare gets accommodations that are 7 or 8 times nicer. 

I'm not saying it's not possible, just that on the basis of my limited experience it sure seems unlikely. 

Meanwhile, all that matters to me is whether I like my timeshares.  _Mox nix_ what anybody else thinks -- just as it's _mox nix_ what I think about other people's timeshares. 

Putting it another way, my enjoyment of my timeshares -- & others I am fortunate enough to trade into -- is completely independent of other people's timeshare experience.  And vice versa. 

Here's hoping everybody is as satisfied with his or her timeshares as The Chief Of Staff & I are with ours. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## CaliDave

I think this is great news, I always have much better luck getting what I want in RCI. Inventory is so much better than II.. and 90% of my vacations are vacation I can pretty much only get with RCI. 

I have been a member of both for years and RCI is far and away a better exchange company.   

II has Marriott and that's the only reason I use II. 

I have never been to a DVC, because I don't travel to Florida.. but with the new DVC in California, hopefully I can pick it up last minute vacations at this resort often. 

I'm sure they will have a 1-4 rule, but we can always hope they don't. In fact, thats probably a big reason that DVC switched. They do not want a bunch of people exchanging over and over.. they want new blood to sell to.

I'll wait to see what happens before I get out of RCI points, like I had planned on doing.


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## ocdb8r

tombo said:


> Of the top 10, 2 are Disney Resorts which will now be RCI, and 5 are Royals in Mexico (one of which exchanges with RCI). Unless you want to go to Mexico every year you will only lose 4 Royals in the top 10 (that is 4 of the same thing in the same county, not a big loss since one is available through RCI), and you will lose 2 -4 seasons resorts out of the top 10. So in RCI you will be able to stay in top 10 resorts in Orlando (on Disney property),Mexico (at one of the royals II has 5 of), and Beaver Creek Colorado (where you can walk to the ski lifts). With II you will be able to stay in Carlsbad Ca (not even on the ocean), Scottsdale AZ (great if you like golf), and Mexico. I like RCI's top ten choices better than II's.
> 
> Out of the next 20, 7 will be RCI. Of the other 13 left in II, 8 are Marriotts (which you could only exchange into after Marriott owners had chosen the best weeks for themselves due to their II trade advantage). So as I said the main thing you are losing is picked over Marriott inventory. If Marriott starts their own exchange and pulls out of II, you will be even happier that DVC moved to RCI.
> 
> You are focusing on the top 30 where most resorts have always had very limited exchanges available at prime times.  If you don't own a top 30 resort, how many years do you actually stay in one of those? Overall RCI has almost double the number of II resorts (4700 RCI vs 2400 in II),  and RCI has many more locations than II. To see how many more resorts you get in RCI over II, pull up the Smokey Mountains (24 in RCI, 12 in II), the Florida Panhandle(20 in rci,11 in II), the Florida Keys (11 in RCI,5 in II),and please try comparisons at other locations to compare both the number of resorts available, and the actual resorts themselves. RCI will have almost every resort that II offers (except for Marriott's, Hyatts) to trade for in most areas of the country, but RCI will offer many additional resorts you can't trade for in II. Do a side by side comparison and see. Many II people don't look at anything but Marriott, DVC, and Hyatts when comparing the exchange companies, but in many area of the USA, parts of the Caribbean, several areas in Hawaii, and numerous places in the rest of the world, II doesn't offer a single option that you can't get through RCI, and RCI will give you many options you never had through II.The sky is not falling, you have been forced into a better trading company than II by DVC.



Well, I wouldn't call it propaganda like a previous poster, but I do agree that the analysis is a bit off.  My take:

#1 Mexico - The Royal Mayan is the 2nd oldest of the Royals and will soon be going away when the trust expires in 2013.  Then there will be NO Royals in RCI.  Also, trust me, the Sands and the Hacienda's are the nicest of the 4 (the staff is GREAT at all of them which is why they're in the top 4 but the are not ALL the "same").

#2 Hawaii - You don't mention the Top 30 in Hawaii at all!?!?  RCI does offer the Hiltons which I am confident are very nice, but I don't think RCI offers the quality of the Marriott and Westin on Maui.  Same goes for Kauai...so overall I'd give II the edge in Maui. (but Maybe it's closer to a wash with Hilton).  Also, the ONLY place II doesn't offer a top resort is on the Big Island....

#3 Skiing - You mention the Beaver Creek but I think II would have the advantage in UT and Tahoe (none in Top 30 so maybe doesn't matter), and certainly Avon/Vail.

#4 Caribbean - You also fail to talk about the Caribbean/Bahamas Top 30 at ALL.  The Marriott and Starwood presence (Harborside Atlantis) here clearly trumps RCI as RCI has no Top 30 resorts in this area.

#5 Limits - Contrary to your post, it is not impossible to get into most, if not all of these resorts.  Even ski weeks at the Marriotts are often available.  There have been PLENTY of 4 Seasons units this past year and Hawaii Marriott/Starwood has been almost "easy" to get into.  You are just wrong making the assertion that it take a top 30 resort to get into a top 30 resort most of the time.  It doesn't...maybe that's your experience with RCI.  I personally will be staying at Harborside Atlatis, 2 consecutive weeks Westin Kaanapali, Hyatt Carmel, Mariott Grande Vista in Oralndo, and the Royal Sands and Hacienda's in Mexico...NONE of those trades made with a top 30 resort.  Again, maybe top options are not that easy to get with RCI.

#6 Number of locations - I'll give you that.  RCI does offer double the resorts and many more locations than II.  I just don't know how confident I am about the quality of those options.

Bigger Picture - like I previously posted, I think there are MANY quality resorts in RCI I just don't think it's as easy to know what they are.  RCI's rating system is no more objective than II's (I just disagree with you about this one).  I DO however believe the Top 30 list could just be skewed to II and the brand names.  For the most part it's because there is a level of consistency that helps those reviews....I think there are probably some top notch RCI resorts that just don't get the necessary exposure because they aren't part of a "brand."


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## gmarine

If I was a DVC owner I would be furious. All the talk of RCI having more resorts is true, but that wouldnt matter to me. As a DVC owner I would want quality, not quantity. DVC owners spent a lot of $$ to get a top quality resort and they should have the opportunity to trade for the best.

Sure, RCI has some high quality resorts, including Hilton, but they dont have the best, which is what I would want as a DVC owner. Any mediocre resorts in areas that II doesnt have properties could be had more cost effectively by renting.

Arguably the highest quality timeshares are Four Seasons, Marriott, Hyatt and Westin. And especially Harborside at Atlantis. If I was a DVC owner I want access to these resorts. I dont care who has more resorts in a certain area, I deposited the best and I want the best in return.


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## Twinkstarr

gmarine said:


> If I was a DVC owner I would be furious. All the talk of RCI having more resorts is true, but that wouldnt matter to me. As a DVC owner I would want quality, not quantity. DVC owners spent a lot of $$ to get a top quality resort and they should have the opportunity to trade for the best.
> 
> Sure, RCI has some high quality resorts, including Hilton, but they dont have the best, which is what I would want as a DVC owner. Any mediocre resorts in areas that II doesnt have properties could be had more cost effectively by renting.
> 
> Arguably the highest quality timeshares are Four Seasons, Marriott, Hyatt and Westin. And especially Harborside at Atlantis. If I was a DVC owner I want access to these resorts. I dont care who has more resorts in a certain area, I deposited the best and I want the best in return.



Personally I use my DVC points for my Orlando trips. If DVC was all I owned, I would either rent out my points for a year and get the cash to do the trip I wanted or I would bank my points and either do an extra trip, a longer trip or book a bigger unit.


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## CaliDave

ocdb8r said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it propaganda like a previous poster, but I do agree that the analysis is a bit off.  My take:
> 
> #1 Mexico - The Royal Mayan is the 2nd oldest of the Royals and will soon be going away when the trust expires in 2013.  Then there will be NO Royals in RCI.  Also, trust me, the Sands and the Hacienda's are the nicest of the 4 (the staff is GREAT at all of them which is why they're in the top 4 but the are not ALL the "same").
> 
> #2 Hawaii - You don't mention the Top 30 in Hawaii at all!?!?  RCI does offer the Hiltons which I am confident are very nice, but I don't think RCI offers the quality of the Marriott and Westin on Maui.  Same goes for Kauai...so overall I'd give II the edge in Maui. (but Maybe it's closer to a wash with Hilton).  Also, the ONLY place II doesn't offer a top resort is on the Big Island....
> 
> #3 Skiing - You mention the Beaver Creek but I think II would have the advantage in UT and Tahoe (none in Top 30 so maybe doesn't matter), and certainly Avon/Vail.
> 
> #4 Caribbean - You also fail to talk about the Caribbean/Bahamas Top 30 at ALL.  The Marriott and Starwood presence (Harborside Atlantis) here clearly trumps RCI as RCI has no Top 30 resorts in this area.
> 
> #5 Limits - Contrary to your post, it is not impossible to get into most, if not all of these resorts.  Even ski weeks at the Marriotts are often available.  There have been PLENTY of 4 Seasons units this past year and Hawaii Marriott/Starwood has been almost "easy" to get into.  You are just wrong making the assertion that it take a top 30 resort to get into a top 30 resort most of the time.  It doesn't...maybe that's your experience with RCI.  I personally will be staying at Harborside Atlatis, 2 consecutive weeks Westin Kaanapali, Hyatt Carmel, Mariott Grande Vista in Oralndo, and the Royal Sands and Hacienda's in Mexico...NONE of those trades made with a top 30 resort.  Again, maybe top options are not that easy to get with RCI.
> 
> #6 Number of locations - I'll give you that.  RCI does offer double the resorts and many more locations than II.  I just don't know how confident I am about the quality of those options.
> 
> Bigger Picture - like I previously posted, I think there are MANY quality resorts in RCI I just don't think it's as easy to know what they are.  RCI's rating system is no more objective than II's (I just disagree with you about this one).  I DO however believe the Top 30 list could just be skewed to II and the brand names.  For the most part it's because there is a level of consistency that helps those reviews....I think there are probably some top notch RCI resorts that just don't get the necessary exposure because they aren't part of a "brand."



Mexico -- I'd give the edge to II in Cancun.. but RCI in the rest of Mexico
They have the Grand Mayans all over Mexico.. top notch resorts.

Hawaii - II is far and away the best in Maui and Kauai, but RCI's Hiltons are best on the Big Island and Oahu... and now DVC on Oahu 

Skiing - I think its close to a wash..  RCI also has Hilton Valdoro in Breckenridge 

Caribbean - II has a slight edge, RCI has many more "good" choices.. Westin is hardly ever seen.. and Atlantis is out of the average vacationers budget for food. 

Limits - RCI is much better at having inventory at very nice places.  - for tuggers its not as big of a deal, because we know how to work the system to get the vacation at the resorts we want. Most timeshare exchangers plan last minute or don;t plan ahead enough and just book something out of inventory, which RCI wins hands down

Almost all my vacations are spent at the beach in So Cal - where RCI wins hands down. Try getting multiple weeks during the summer on the beach in So Cal with II , not going to happen. 

bigger picture - each person has to decide which system works best for them. I have had both for several years and I will probably be cancelling II pretty soon. RCi works much better for me. I'n not too thrilled with points, but the weeks is great. I primarily had II for Marriotts in Hawaii.  With the economy going down the toilet, If I have the $$ to travel out of the state, I'll probably be able to find good rentals.


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## icydog

The amount I paid for DVC, plus the high maintenance fees  I pay yearly, makes me unhappy with this arrangement. Now, instead of being one of many fine resorts, as we were in II, we will be the best resorts in RCI. I would rather be a big fish in a small pool rather than a big fish in an gigantic pool. In any case DVC is a big fish. Will I get the trades with DVC I want, I doubt it  since there is Nothing in RCI I really want. I own several RCI weekly contracts and there little there to compare to DVC. I traded to the _Houses at Summer Bay,_ and that may be comparable, but other than that, including the Manhattan Club, nothing compares to DVC. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or call it a silk purse, RCi is still a sow's ear to me.


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## Bill4728

RCI has some access to the top of the line Club Intrawest (CI) resorts but this move by DVC does nothing to help DVC get CI. Because DVC already had a direct relationship with CI allowing a DVC owner to trade into CI directly.


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## CaliDave

Just rent out your DVC and rent a comparable resort.. then you can bypass all the exchage companies



icydog said:


> The amount I paid for DVC, plus the high maintenance fees  I pay yearly, makes me unhappy with this arrangement. Now, instead of being one of many fine resorts, as we were in II, we will be the best resorts in RCI. I would rather be a big fish in a small pool rather than a big fish in an gigantic pool. In any case DVC is a big fish. Will I get the trades with DVC I want, I doubt it  since there is Nothing in RCI I really want. I own several RCI weekly contracts and there little there to compare to DVC. I traded to the _Houses at Summer Bay,_ and that may be comparable, but other than that, including the Manhattan Club, nothing compares to DVC. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or call it a silk purse, RCi is still a sow's ear to me.


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## icydog

CaliDave said:


> Just rent out your DVC and rent a comparable resort.. then you can bypass all the exchage companies



Problem being the exchange out of DVC into other resorts and visa versa. RCI and Wnydham are owned by the same company. Wnydham notoriously does not value their owners. 

You can buy a Wnydham Resort on EBay for $.01. How can a company, whose timeshare arm treats its owners this way, be expected to care one whit about DVC. Also this arrangement will give Wyndham owners a big advantage over the rest of RCI owners. Who better to get the spoils than their own timeshare owners, and I include Worldmark too? 

DVC protects its owners with ROFR rules. Wnydham, and by extension RCI, has no such regard for their owners/members. Is this the kind of company we want to belong to.. I don't. At least not with my DVC resorts. I own several RCI traders that cost a fraction of my DVC points. I still don't like the inequity of the RCI system and weeks vs point members. Again, the feeling of buyer beware is pervasive in RCI. 

I want the ability to trade into Resorts that are within parity with DVC.  I do not know of any on the RCi rosters that meet that criteria. Why would I trade down. What advantage will that be to me????


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## tombo

ocdb8r said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it propaganda like a previous poster, but I do agree that the analysis is a bit off.  My take:
> 
> #1 Mexico - The Royal Mayan is the 2nd oldest of the Royals and will soon be going away when the trust expires in 2013.  Then there will be NO Royals in RCI.  Also, trust me, the Sands and the Hacienda's are the nicest of the 4 (the staff is GREAT at all of them which is why they're in the top 4 but the are not ALL the "same").
> 
> #2 Hawaii - You don't mention the Top 30 in Hawaii at all!?!?  RCI does offer the Hiltons which I am confident are very nice, but I don't think RCI offers the quality of the Marriott and Westin on Maui.  Same goes for Kauai...so overall I'd give II the edge in Maui. (but Maybe it's closer to a wash with Hilton).  Also, the ONLY place II doesn't offer a top resort is on the Big Island....
> 
> #3 Skiing - You mention the Beaver Creek but I think II would have the advantage in UT and Tahoe (none in Top 30 so maybe doesn't matter), and certainly Avon/Vail.
> 
> #4 Caribbean - You also fail to talk about the Caribbean/Bahamas Top 30 at ALL.  The Marriott and Starwood presence (Harborside Atlantis) here clearly trumps RCI as RCI has no Top 30 resorts in this area.
> 
> #5 Limits - Contrary to your post, it is not impossible to get into most, if not all of these resorts.  Even ski weeks at the Marriotts are often available.  There have been PLENTY of 4 Seasons units this past year and Hawaii Marriott/Starwood has been almost "easy" to get into.  You are just wrong making the assertion that it take a top 30 resort to get into a top 30 resort most of the time.  It doesn't...maybe that's your experience with RCI.  I personally will be staying at Harborside Atlatis, 2 consecutive weeks Westin Kaanapali, Hyatt Carmel, Mariott Grande Vista in Oralndo, and the Royal Sands and Hacienda's in Mexico...NONE of those trades made with a top 30 resort.  Again, maybe top options are not that easy to get with RCI.
> 
> #6 Number of locations - I'll give you that.  RCI does offer double the resorts and many more locations than II.  I just don't know how confident I am about the quality of those options.
> 
> Bigger Picture - like I previously posted, I think there are MANY quality resorts in RCI I just don't think it's as easy to know what they are.  RCI's rating system is no more objective than II's (I just disagree with you about this one).  I DO however believe the Top 30 list could just be skewed to II and the brand names.  For the most part it's because there is a level of consistency that helps those reviews....I think there are probably some top notch RCI resorts that just don't get the necessary exposure because they aren't part of a "brand."



I agree that II has an edge on the top 30, but that edge is mainly Marriott. There are only 2 four seasons, so all the II members can't stay there every year. There are 5 Mexican Royals, and I doubt that many II owners stay at one of those 5 every year unless they own there. Plus I never exchange for the same location every year anyway. If I love an area enough to go every year I buy there.

#1 Mexico:RCI has 356 resorts including The Palaces (Adventura, Moon, Cancun, Cozumel Palace, etc), Club Intrawest, and so many luxurious resorts (including many all inclusives II doesn't have) that you will never stay at them all. Do you really think the 5 Royals are the only places worth staying in Mexico? I am not saying nthey aren't the best, but the Palace resorts have to be a close second.

#2 Hawaii: RCI has 109 resorts, II has 58. From my quick count, with RCI you can stay in 38 of the 58 II Hawaii resorts. Obviously with II there are a maximum of 58 resorts to choose from, leaving 51 more options as an RCI owner. Not having Marriott access is a big loss, but having 51 more resorts to choose from should be worth something.

#3 Skiing: RCI has 199 Rocky Mountain Resort choices versus the 82 available from II. Yes Marriott is missing again, but there are other very nice places to stay than Marriott's and aren't most days spent skiing anyway? My point is that I would rather have a chance of getting a ski week at 199 different resorts than a chance of getting a week at one of only 82 resorts.


#4 Carribbean:St Martin RCI can trade for every resort II has (11). RCI has an additional 14 resorts (25 total) to trade for on top of II's 11. RCI has 12 resorts on Nassau versus 3 at II. Yes II has the Harborside at Atlantis, but you can stay at the Atlantis right now 3 nights 4 days for $399. Staying at the resort is better than next door.

#5 I never said it was impossible to get those locations. I never said you had to trade a top 30 resort to get a top 30 resort. Someone else said cheap traders would get anything in RCI, which also works in II. If it was impossible to exchange for top places, there would be no reason to be in any exchange company. 

I said that you got Marriott inventory after Marriott owners took what they wanted. There will be weeks left that are good, but a lot less are available to DVC owners than are available to Marriott owners. Also if you are honest you will never get a 4th of July week at a top 30 beach resort or a New Years week at a Top 30 ski resort by exchanging unless you are incredibly lucky. The best inventory is hard to get in both organizations. 

I have II resorts and RCI resorts, and II has never been my favorite choice. I love Marriotts, and I assume I would love 4 seasons and the Royals, but I have always had much better luck getting a week I want, at the time I want, in the location I want, through RCI than I ever had through II. If I want a July week in Florida I can get it at a nice resort (not top 30 but nice). If I want a ski week in Utah in January, I can get it at a nice resort (probably not top 30) through RCI. I feel sure that everyone can't get a prime top 30 week through II anytime they want to either. I want an exchange company for abundant availability at many locations and RCI consistently provides that. 

To be honest, if I owned a Marriott or DVC and paid those high MF's, I would never trade one of those weeks for anything to II anyway. I would use it myself, trade internally for Marriott or DVC, or rent it out. I would never give it to II (or RCI) hoping to receive a comparable trade back. 

II does have some advantages without question, I just feel that the availability and choices available through RCI makes it the better choice of the two IMO.


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## ondeadlin

I do think part of this argument is academic, because very few DVC owners trade their week, and the few that don't are more likely to rent their points than trade.

That said, it's a devaluation, and - as IcyDog points out - an unlikely association with a bunch of bad actors. Again, IMO.


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## ricoba

It's hard for me to agree that DVC will now be the BEST company in RCI.

Hilton, has now introduced world class resorts, The Grand Waikikian(Honolulu), Kingsland(Big Island), Parc Soleil(Orlando) and West 57th(NYC).

Not only are they superior resorts, they are in locations that DVC is not in.....

(I can't believe I am actually giving HGVC credit for having more locations than another club!!!  )


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## ondeadlin

You're in my wheelhouse now with the ski comparison and, I have to say, there is NO comparison between RCI and II. None.

Why? Because with ski resorts, you can't just go by numbers. That's silly. Fifty ski properties in Michigan or New Jersey or even New England don't compare with one great property in Vail or Park City. The experiences just aren't comparable.

A real North American ski traveler wants to go to Colorado, Utah, California, Whistler, Jackson Hole, maybe Taos.

Within those areas, there's just no comparison. Marriott (Vail, Park City (2), Breckenridge, Lake Tahoe (2)) and Hyatt (Aspen, Breckenridge, Beaver Creek, Tahoe) along would be enough to end the argument, but there are tremendous top-notch properties in Breckenridge (Grand Timber Lodge), Beaver Creek (the new Starwood Westin, St. James Place, Poste Montagne), Steamboat Springs (new Starwood property) and Telluride (Franz Klammer, the River Club).

RCI has much better properties in Whistler, very nice properties at The Canyons and Steamboat (Grand Summits), and a nice advantage with the Cliffs Club at Snowbird.

Jackson and Taos, it's a push.

Overall? For a skier, II is a complete and total clear choice.


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## lprstn

I think this is great news for owners.  I have both II and RCI and the customer service I have recieved with II was no better than RCI.  Both are company's and their main goal is to make money.  As for trades I have stayed at some nice trades with RCI.  I think some of the trades that II boast are highly overrated.  Any system that trades timeshare is a hit or miss, but I can honestly say I have better luck at getting my trades through RCI and I have friends that also agree on that as they have dual affiliation also.


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## PigsDad

Wow -- some people really think highly of what they own, and belittle what others own.  Guess what?  The amount you paid for your TS has very little to do with the quality.  It just means you drank the kool-aid and fell for the sales pitch.  And ROFR just keeps prices artificially high (for a while) to the developer's advantage, not the owner's advantage.

I've seen the DVC units -- they are nice but tend to be a bit small, IMO.  Nothing all that special (especially for the outrageous MFs!).  I can understand why DVC owners would be upset, but I think RCI will give them a decent selection of very high quality resorts, along with the ability to get to far more other places if they sacrifice quality a bit.

Kurt


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## janej

I am a DVC member but never traded my DVC points.  I think DVC would trade better with RCI because of higher demand.  DVC only deposit off season smaller units for exchange any ways.  II has tons of Marriott 2 bedrooms to compete for the same period and $95 less.  Even a Disney fan like me have to think twice about which one to choose from.  RCI has Orange Lake but not that many other properties that are always available for off season.  Plus Orange Lake has the 4-in-1 rule.  I think it will be a lot hard to trade into DVC with RCI.


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## LLW

janej said:


> I am a DVC member but never traded my DVC points.  I think DVC would trade better with RCI because of higher demand.  DVC only deposit off season smaller units for exchange any ways.  II has tons of Marriott 2 bedrooms to compete for the same period and $95 less.  Even a Disney fan like me have to think twice about which one to choose from.  RCI has Orange Lake but not that many other properties that are always available for off season.  Plus Orange Lake has the 4-in-1 rule.  I think it will be a lot hard to trade into DVC with RCI.




It's been said often, and is logical, that DVC members don't trade their points often, because they are so much more expensive than most of the resorts that they can trade into. They would rather rent their points or bookings. But it has also been true that in the last year or so there have been lots of DVC availability in II. What gives? Is it hard to book what they want at DVC?


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## JimC

As a general rule trading out of DVC is not a particularly good deal.  There are exceptions but I suspect most would say if you want to vacation elsewhere, reduce what you buy in DVC and invest in another timeshare that is less expensive to buy and own for your non-Disney vacations.

DVC's primary value and much of their premium cost is their on-property location coupled with their brand reputation.  Yet many DVC owners trade out and DVC pushes this "benefit" as part of the sales pitch.  So far the DVC members seem fairly negative to the idea.

What this will do for RCI members is hard to guess.  RCI can only access what DVC deposits and they only control a small percentage of each resort's points.  The rest would need to come from owners trading their points for non-DVC options.  It will be interesting to see what volume of inventory RCI gets.  But at least RCI can market the possibility, even if the reality is something else.


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## bdh

Simple logic tells you that no Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, DVC, Starwood or HGCV owner purchased these high end properties to be able to trade down to a low end property.  They bought them to stay at their home resort, to trade to other resorts within their brand or to exchange to equivilent high end properties.  So it doesn't really matter if they have 2400 or 4800 properties to choose from as they are only going to be looking at the top 75 or so.  While I'm sure someone will point out that with 4800 options you would potentially have twice as many high end properties when compared to the 2400 options, the reality is there aren't twice as many high end properties in RCI as there are in II. 

The move of DVC to RCI is:

1.  A non-event for DVC owners who stay within the DVC brand.
2.  A non-event for DVC owners who trade to other high end properties as they have a different pool to swim in (pun intended).
3.  A negative for DVC owners who trade to other high end brands as they wont have access to as many of those brands anymore.
4.  A negative for the high end II brand owners who trade outside their brand and lose access to DVC. 
5.  A positive for current RCI owners who will be lucky enough to get a DVC trade.

All depends if you fall into Group 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 how you're going to feel about DVC's new affiliation.  When I look at the 5 possible options, it seems to me that its irrelevant to Group 1 and 2, Group 3 and 4 are losers and the only winner is group 5.  Note that I placed the groups in the order of what I think the actual percentages of people will fall into.  That said, I can't believe that the majority of DVC owners would vote for the move, if they had a vote.

I could have added a group 6 - II owners that never trade outside their brand - but since those owners have no vested DVC interest, the move has no affect on this group and has no merit on the list.  Note that I'm a Group 6'er.  I'm sure there are other possible scenerios (ie: DVC owners who do trade down, DVC owners who cant wait for more International options, etc) but those seem like they would be such a small percentages of the population, I couldn't justify a group.


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## Carl D

PigsDad said:


> Wow -- some people really think highly of what they own, and belittle what others own.  Guess what?  The amount you paid for your TS has very little to do with the quality.  It just means you drank the kool-aid and fell for the sales pitch.  And ROFR just keeps prices artificially high (for a while) to the developer's advantage, not the owner's advantage.
> 
> I've seen the DVC units -- they are nice but tend to be a bit small, IMO.  Nothing all that special (especially for the outrageous MFs!).  I can understand why DVC owners would be upset, but I think RCI will give them a decent selection of very high quality resorts, along with the ability to get to far more other places if they sacrifice quality a bit.
> 
> Kurt


It's not about size or furnishings. It's the immersive experience the resorts offer... Especially the themimg. No other resort offers that experience.


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## bnoble

> But it has also been true that in the last year or so there have been lots of DVC availability in II. What gives?


DVC has been growing in a big way.  More members means more deposits.  DVC has also been using a set of matching points as a sales incentive.  This sounds like a good idea in the presentation, but many folks find they can't actually use them before things expire, so those that don't just expire or get rented out are deposited in hopes of a future vacation.


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## timeos2

*If you don't want the experience they fall short*



Carl D said:


> It's not about size or furnishings. It's the immersive experience the resorts offer... Especially the themimg. No other resort offers that experience.



If thats what you're looking you are absolutely correct. But if you want a quality resort with space then DVC is middle of the pack at best - not the top -  at most of their resorts.  Since we have zero interest in anything Disney the "extras" surrounding the DVC resorts are worthless to us.  And the resorts alone don't match up well with the best Wyndham, Marriott, HGVC, some independents and others offer strictly looking at the resort.  I'll bet the majority of timeshare owners/guests feel the same or else they would all want to buy only DVC and we know that isn't the case. Whoever said most over value their resorts or wrongly equate purchase price/fees to value was right. It is the resort quality and location that makes the value not what is paid to buy or use. DVC has a unique offering in surroundings at most of their resorts but comes up short in the physical size/quality area.  

But if you want the experience you cannot beat the onsite DVC resorts, and Bonnet Creek for 98% of it,  I would certainly agree with that.


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## JudyS

tombo said:


> ....So in RCI you will be able to stay in top 10 resorts in Orlando (on Disney property),Mexico (at one of the royals II has 5 of), and Beaver Creek Colorado (where you can walk to the ski lifts). With II you will be able to stay in Carlsbad Ca (not even on the ocean), Scottsdale AZ (great if you like golf), and Mexico. I like RCI's top ten choices better than II's....Many II people don't look at anything but Marriott, DVC, and Hyatts when comparing the exchange companies, but in many area of the USA, parts of the Caribbean, several areas in Hawaii, and numerous places in the rest of the world, II doesn't offer a single option that you can't get through RCI, and RCI will give you many options you never had through II.The sky is not falling, you have been forced into a better trading company than II by DVC.


I already belong to both RCI and II through non-DVC timeshares, and like II  better. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on whether RCI or II provides better resorts.  I will point out an inaccuracy in your above comments, however.  You are saying that through RCI, DVC members will be able to stay in several top-10 choices, including the other DVC properties in Orlando.  Actually, I very much doubt that DVC members will be able to use RCI to get another DVC property.  If a DVC member wants a DVC property other than where they own, they book directly with Disney, not through an exchange company. 

In my own case, I have so far never traded out of Disney.  However, at the moment, I have some expiring DVC Points that I was considering depositing into II, in the hopes of a future trade to a Four Seasons resort.  Unfortunately, Disney has already stopped allowing deposits into II for ongoing searches.  Since I can not yet deposit into RCI, either, I don't have anywhere that I can deposit the points, and since they expire soon, by the time deposits into RCI are allowed, it will probably be too late to trade them.  I fail to see how this benefits me, especially since I already had the ability to trade into almost anything RCI has (I own RCI Points, and two SoCal summer RCI weeks), and now will have nothing that qualifies for a Four Seasons trade.


----------



## JudyS

timeos2 said:


> ....But if you want a quality resort with space then DVC is middle of the pack at best - not the top -  at most of their resorts.  Since we have zero interest in anything Disney the "extras" surrounding the DVC resorts are worthless to us.  And the resorts alone don't match up well with the best Wyndham, Marriott, HGVC, some independents and others offer strictly looking at the resort.  I'll bet the majority of timeshare owners/guests feel the same or else they would all want to buy only DVC and we know that isn't the case. ....


Well, I'm guessing that one big reason many people don't buy DVC is the very high buy-in price and high annual fees.  I actually feel that DVC provides a far better experience than any other resort that I own, but there is no way I could afford a bunch of DVC weeks!


----------



## tidefan

timeos2 said:


> But if you want a quality resort with space then DVC is middle of the pack at best - not the top -  at most of their resorts.



I assume you are leaving Old Key West out of this comparison.  Their units are much bigger than the other DVC properties and IMHO were much nicer that either the Marriott Heritage Club or Marriott Surfwatch properties we stayed at last summer (through my Father-in-law's II exchanges via his Marriott's Legends Edge deposits - MLE does have great units).  The others I will give you are on the small side...


----------



## timeos2

*There is a real world out there and its not all in Orlando*



JudyS said:


> Well, I'm guessing that one big reason many people don't buy DVC is the very high buy-in price and high annual fees.  I actually feel that DVC provides a far better experience than any other resort that I own, but there is no way I could afford a bunch of DVC weeks!



It may also relate to the fact that with only 4 locations - some of which lack the only real difference the theme parks - most people want to go places other than Orlando, Hilton Head and FLorida.  The value isn't there (for the money - not the quality) to trade to non-Disney resorts using DVC so overall the value isn't in DVC but in the flexible, lower cost (in most cases) resorts/systems that offer far more locations.  I'm told we're not open to new places and experiences as a family yet we travel to many more places than DVC offers. If those 4 were our only choices we'd lose interest (and have in Disney after loving it years ago) so DVC has no value to us.  There are REAL experiences and places to visit that, maybe surprisingly to DVC fans, actually exist - not replicas or fantasy in a 3 minute theme ride.


----------



## ocdb8r

Carl D said:


> It's not about size or furnishings. It's the immersive experience the resorts offer... Especially the themimg. No other resort offers that experience.



Agreed.  I just stayed in a Saratoga Springs Grand Villa with family who own points and it didn't blow me away.  But it's not the quality of the individual unit you pay for, it's being immersed in Disney.  I will also add, Disney does a top notch job of upkeep as well.  Most Old Key West units look just as nice today as they did on day 1.  High MF in Disney but no surprise assessments and I don't think you'd ever have to worry about things being replaced and kept in working order.  Even Marriott and Starwood have issues in this area (crzy MF increases, large assesments..etc.)


----------



## JudyS

timeos2 said:


> It may also relate to the fact that with only 4 locations - some of which lack the only real difference the theme parks - most people want to go places other than Orlando, Hilton Head and FLorida.....


I agree that Disney has very limited locations (although they are adding a few more.)  Still, if you are just comparing it to other Orlando timeshares, I'd bet many people would prefer Disney if the cost weren't so much higher. 

I suppose it is theoretically possible that trading out of Disney will be a better value now that trades are done by RCI.  For example, if DVC is in RCI Points, it's possible that it could be assigned a very high points cost, as the Manhattan Club is, and many European resorts are.  Better value when trading would help with the "limited locations" problem.  However, we don't know yet what the RCI implementation will be.


----------



## ricoba

JudyS said:


> I agree that Disney has very limited locations (although they are adding a few more.)  Still, if you are just comparing it to other Orlando timeshares, I'd bet many people would prefer Disney if the cost weren't so much higher.
> 
> I suppose it is theoretically possible that trading out of Disney will be a better value now that trades are done by RCI.  For example, if DVC is in RCI Points, it's possible that it could be assigned a very high points cost, as the Manhattan Club is, and many European resorts are.  Better value when trading would help with the "limited locations" problem.  However, we don't know yet what the RCI implementation will be.



I would guess that DVC points will go very far in RCI, just like Hilton points already do.


----------



## bnoble

> I just stayed in a Saratoga Springs Grand Villa with family who own points and it didn't blow me away. But it's not the quality of the individual unit you pay for, it's being immersed in Disney.


Exactly.  In many ways, DVC is a niche market.  If you want the parks, then the resorts offer something no one else can touch.  If you don't care about the parks, then the resorts are just $95 more expensive.


----------



## icydog

I know I have a Mouse-Shaped Head but I think there is way more to being here, I am at a DVC resort now, than going to the theme parks. We spent yesterday touring the hotels that are decked out for Christmas. We love the view from our balcony of the fireworks at Epcot.  love walking in the campground and riding horses. All this on Disney property. We love walking into the parks after parking our car and never using it again for a week. We love the resorts and the upkeep and all things Disney. I have been a member for 17 years and I would have to tell you I never get bored. I think of Orlando as our second home since we are here so much. I know the roads, the stores and the airport. I just feel at home here. So for some of us, _when they greet us with our Welcome Home_, we really take it to heart.


----------



## rickandcindy23

In case Disney chooses to be in the points system, you aren't going to do well at getting DVC with some week that isn't converted to points.  You must get a week that is already converted, then you can get other generic weeks and use them for PFD for more points (until RCI takes THAT privilege away in one of their "enhancements."


----------



## tombo

I know many love Disney, but many of us can't stand Disney. For those of us who think Disney is the most boring place in the world, we simply want a nice resort with good sized rooms and nice amenities. I want a good base location to go to Sea World, Universal, Islands of Adventure and Busch Gardens. I don't care about a theme atmosphere. If you gave me a free week in the best DVC resort with the condition that I had to go to a Disney theme park for 5 days in a row, I would not take that offer.

Please feel free to keep your wonderful DVC weeks. Please don't deposit them for the inferior resorts that RCI offers. Unfortunatelly you will be depositing a week I don't want to trade for at Disney,which will probably have high trading power, allowing you to exchange for a really good RCI week I do want.  I wish DVC would go back to II and take their whining, RCI resort bashing renters (RTU= rent to use) with them. The big losers in this aren't the DVC owners (who only deposit their weeks if they want to), it's the RCI owners who never want to go to Disney again in their life but will lose really great trades to many new DVC RCI members.

 What is there for RCI members to get excited about? It's not like we got access to Marriott trades! We got Disney and DVC. Big deal. There are already more high quality resorts in Orlando through RCI than you will ever stay in (without access to DVC). DVC owners, please call DVC and complain. Hopefully it will get you back to II and we will all be happy.


----------



## bnoble

> In case Disney chooses to be in the points system, you aren't going to do well at getting DVC with some week that isn't converted to points.


It occurs to me that Disney may well not _want_ to be in Points.  If the inventory is in Points, there is no 1-in-N rule (at least, not yet---it's possible that Disney may have negotiated for that.)


----------



## rsackett

I am a II member who will miss DVC.  I have nothing against RCI except that I can not use it.

Up until the last few posts I could not understand why RCI members that were not interested in DVC cared one way or the other about this thread.  But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that DVC owners brought nothing to the table that you want, and they will be competing for weeks that you do want, it would be bad for you.

However, another way to look at it is the more timeshares that join an exchange company; the better it is for all.  Even if DVC has no interest for you it will have interest from other people that own TS's that you do want to go to.  They will deposit their weeks trying to get DVC and you can trade for their weeks.

I would be happier if DVC, and all other resorts were available to me with my Marriott, be it through II or RCI or whoever.

Ray


----------



## tombo

rsackett said:


> I am a II member who will miss DVC.  I have nothing against RCI except that I can not use it.
> 
> Up until the last few posts I could not understand why RCI members that were not interested in DVC cared one way or the other about this thread.  But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that DVC owners brought nothing to the table that you want, and they will be competing for weeks that you do want, it would be bad for you.
> 
> However, another way to look at it is the more timeshares that join an exchange company; the better it is for all.  Even if DVC has no interest for you it will have interest from other people that own TS's that you do want to go to.  They will deposit their weeks trying to get DVC and you can trade for their weeks.
> 
> I would be happier if DVC, and all other resorts were available to me with my Marriott, be it through II or RCI or whoever.
> 
> Ray



Most DVC members will join RCI in case they want to exchange. They will then have access to last calls and extra vacations reducing our supply while bringing little to the table. When they exchange their points, they will probably have one of the highest trading values of any resort in RCI, and they are getting the high trade value by depositing an ORLANDO week. A high quality resort in Orlando is the easiest trade to get in RCI. That is good for DVC members, and not much help to RCI members (we could have stayed at a nice place in Orlando without them).

 DVC members revolt! Show RCI and DVC that you won't put up with it. Call your congressmen and complain. File lawsuits over this injustice. And by all means nothing will show your disdain like not joining RCI. The RCI fees are $800 a year, the exchange fee is $1000 a week ($95 extra if you deposit DVC), and all that is available through RCI is 3 converted motels in Orlando. 
By all means don't complain and join RCI, make a stand and show everyone how mad you are by not joining RCI. DVC owners, please boycott RCI for the good of all.


----------



## joestein

I trade Wyndham points into both II and RCI through different accounts.  We made our 2nd DVC trade in 2 years recently.  As a matter of fact, I set up the Wyndham II account specifically to trade into DVC.  At least I still have a exchange company that allows me to search online.

I don't think that I will be able to get any DVC through RCI.  But who knows, especially if we get the ability to search online.

Joe


----------



## tombo

joestein said:


> I trade Wyndham points into both II and RCI through different accounts.  We made our 2nd DVC trade in 2 years recently.  As a matter of fact, I set up the Wyndham II account specifically to trade into DVC.  At least I still have a exchange company that allows me to search online.
> 
> I don't think that I will be able to get any DVC through RCI.  But who knows, especially if we get the ability to search online.
> 
> Joe



You can search online with RCI, you just have to deposit before you can search.


----------



## PigsDad

rickandcindy23 said:


> In case Disney chooses to be in the points system, you aren't going to do well at getting DVC with some week that isn't converted to points.  You must get a week that is already converted, then you can get other generic weeks and use them for PFD for more points (until RCI takes THAT privilege away in one of their "enhancements."


My guess is that it will work similar to how Hilton trades w/ RCI.  We don't actually trade a "week" -- an RCI unit "costs" a certain number of Hilton points for a given unit size / season.  For example, a Hilton 1BR in the top season costs 4800 HGVC points for a week, but a 1BR RCI property in the top season only costs 3400 HGVC points.  So if an owner of a HGVC 1BR made a RCI 1BR "exchange", that owner would still have 1400 HGVC points left over to use elsewhere.

Behind the scenes, Hilton can get inventory from either RCI weeks or points, but since the reservations are made by Hilton (not the individuals), the Hilton owners don't really know (or care) where the inventory comes from for their RCI reservations.

It makes sense (to me) that DVC would use the same model.  That way, DVC owners wouldn't have to give up a full week's worth of points to trade "down" to an RCI property.  Thoughts?

Kurt


----------



## ricoba

Kurt, you took the time to explain what I was alluding to in post#108. 

I think you are right on the money and DVC will work just like Hilton does in RCI, where they are trading at a higher value.  

I bet as well that they will be given the "limited" RCI book we get, with only the best resorts listed.


----------



## SueDonJ

rsackett said:


> I am a II member who will miss DVC.  I have nothing against RCI except that I can not use it.
> 
> Up until the last few posts I could not understand why RCI members that were not interested in DVC cared one way or the other about this thread.  But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that DVC owners brought nothing to the table that you want, and they will be competing for weeks that you do want, it would be bad for you.
> 
> However, another way to look at it is the more timeshares that join an exchange company; the better it is for all.  Even if DVC has no interest for you it will have interest from other people that own TS's that you do want to go to.  They will deposit their weeks trying to get DVC and you can trade for their weeks.
> 
> I would be happier if DVC, and all other resorts were available to me with my Marriott, be it through II or RCI or whoever.
> 
> Ray



Very nice, agree completely.


----------



## bnoble

> You can search online with RCI, you just have to deposit before you can search.


But, if all you own is Wyndham FSP, you don't necessarily get a deposit that you can search with.  You have to ask for a "visible", and even then might not get it, but a "generic" instead.  With generics you _must_ call to exchange.


----------



## GeNioS

rsackett said:


> I am a II member who will miss DVC.  I have nothing against RCI except that I can not use it.
> 
> Up until the last few posts I could not understand why RCI members that were not interested in DVC cared one way or the other about this thread.  But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that DVC owners brought nothing to the table that you want, and they will be competing for weeks that you do want, it would be bad for you.
> 
> However, another way to look at it is the more timeshares that join an exchange company; the better it is for all.  Even if DVC has no interest for you it will have interest from other people that own TS's that you do want to go to.  They will deposit their weeks trying to get DVC and you can trade for their weeks.
> 
> I would be happier if DVC, and all other resorts were available to me with my Marriott, be it through II or RCI or whoever.
> 
> Ray



I also liked this post.  I was also trying to wrestle with the idea that DVC people will be competing with current RCI people for trades so it's a negative to current RCI members.  I don't think so.  I tend to agree with the last statement.  More resorts are better.

If DVC people are in there competing for trades, it means they're depositing units.  And those RCI people that may have been competing for the same unit before now may find that one of them would rather take the DVC unit instead.  With this line of thinking, RCI people should be excited to have them, something I think echoed by most.

In fact, there may be so many RCI people chomping at the DVC bit that other destinations that may have been difficult to get into before may get easier?  (wow that's a terrible sentence)

I've never traded into Disney with my Marriott but, as written before me, would also be happier if they were there, as well as all others.

Couple of quick thoughts.....

* Marriott resales look slightly less attractive to me now that DVC are gone.  I haven't traded there before, but was wanting to try it in the future.

* If you thought Marriott going to internal points-based system was going to hurt II before......


----------



## bnoble

> * If you thought Marriott going to internal points-based system was going to hurt II before......


Disney is big name, but a small component of Interval---there are only a handful of resorts, with at most tens of weeks a day deposited.  Marriott is a much bigger fish.

Losing Disney only really annoys the niche in Interval that wants to visit the theme parks in Orlando.  Losing Marriott means losing dozens of the better ski, beach, _and_ theme park destinations in the entire system.


----------



## Bill4728

ricoba said:


> I would guess that DVC points will go very far in RCI, just like Hilton points already do.



This may be very true.  Right now it makes little sense to use DVC pyts to trade in II. Because you can rent your pts for a lot of $$ and then use the $$ to rent anything you want.


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## lilybean

*Anyone tried to get a Disney trade recently?*

We were looking to go to Disney (II owners) early next year, and I have always been able to trade in "last minute" for some great on-site Disney deals.  Now that I see the RCI change, I am about to put in a request for Jan/Feb for a DVC resort.  Anyone tried recently?  Thoughts on availability?


----------



## bnoble

> I am about to put in a request for Jan/Feb for a DVC resort. Anyone tried recently? Thoughts on availability?


You probably have a decent shot still, especially if you are not picky about which resort, and could accept a 1BR.  If you could accept a studio and aren't picky, I'd say you've got a very good shot.


----------



## rsackett

lilybean said:


> We were looking to go to Disney (II owners) early next year, and I have always been able to trade in "last minute" for some great on-site Disney deals.  Now that I see the RCI change, I am about to put in a request for Jan/Feb for a DVC resort.  Anyone tried recently?  Thoughts on availability?




Can you put in a request for January?  I thought you could not put in requests during FlexChange???

I have seen DVC stuidos and 1 bedrooms sitting in inventory several times this week.

Ray


----------



## lilybean

rsackett said:


> Can you put in a request for January?  I thought you could not put in requests during FlexChange???
> 
> I have seen DVC stuidos and 1 bedrooms sitting in inventory several times this week.
> 
> Ray


Great point! I always forget about that...thanks for the reminder!  I will keep checking -- I saw a studio for late Feb in there recently, but that's about it...


----------



## refumpcpa

*What happens to weeks still in II after 12/31*

If there are any weeks left in II inventory after 12/31, will those weeks revert back to Disney or will Disney honor those trades since they were deposited into II before 12/31?

Also, if Disney owners still trade out prior to 12/31, will any more weeks come into II inventory.


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## timeos2

*Thats all folks*



refumpcpa said:


> If there are any weeks left in II inventory after 12/31, will those weeks revert back to Disney or will Disney honor those trades since they were deposited into II before 12/31?
> 
> Also, if Disney owners still trade out prior to 12/31, will any more weeks come into II inventory.



DVC is no longer allowing new deposits to II. They already have everything they will get for at least the next ten years (term of the new exclusive RCI affiliation).


----------



## gmarine

timeos2 said:


> DVC is no longer allowing new deposits to II. They already have everything they will get for at least the next ten years (term of the new exclusive RCI affiliation).



According to the DVC announcment members may confirm exchanges through Dec 31. Yesterday and again today II had availability at several DVC resorts.


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## dioxide45

gmarine said:


> According to the DVC announcment members may confirm exchanges through Dec 31. Yesterday and again today II had availability at several DVC resorts.



This is if you currently have points on deposit with II or there is a resort available for instant exchange. You can't put deposit new points to request a search is what I think John was getting at.


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## Miss Marty

*Disney Vacation Club*

The Disney Difference is what sets Disney Vacation Club (DVC) apart 
It's the heritage, tradition and values that began with Walt himself.

Disney Vacation Club membership is based on a "vacation point" system.  
As a DVC Member - I feel that - Interval International II and RCI owners 
should only be allowed to - exchange in - trade in - once every year.

When you become a Disney Vacation Club Member, you're buying 
a real estate interest in an exceptional Disney Vacation Club. Resort

http://www.grouprci.com/media_center/pr/show_release.cfm?id=190


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## tombo

Marty Giggard said:


> When you become a Disney Vacation Club Member, you're buying
> a real estate interest in an exceptional Disney Vacation Club. Resort
> 
> http://www.grouprci.com/media_center/pr/show_release.cfm?id=190



When you pay your money to DVC you become a RTU (rent to use) member. You never did and never will own any real estate or interest in any property that DISNEY OWNS. You are only renting a week (actually renting points) each year from Disney for a set number of years, then after your rental lease is up you are left with nothing. Not only don't you own anything, you don't have a vote on management, maintenance fees, or which exchange company Disney will use because renters have no ownership rights. Notice how Disney didn't take a vote or even a survey from members before changing to RCI from II. The landlord (Disney) has deemed RCI is better for them, so all the loyal members of the tragic kingdom club must capitulate to the mouse monarchy's wishes. Isn't this why we threw the tea off of the cruise ship when it docked in Boston Harbor? DVC is vacation without representation.


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> I know many love Disney, but many of us can't stand Disney. For those of us who think Disney is the most boring place in the world, we simply want a nice resort with good sized rooms and nice amenities. I want a good base location to go to Sea World, Universal, Islands of Adventure and Busch Gardens. I don't care about a theme atmosphere. If you gave me a free week in the best DVC resort with the condition that I had to go to a Disney theme park for 5 days in a row, I would not take that offer.
> 
> Please feel free to keep your wonderful DVC weeks. Please don't deposit them for the inferior resorts that RCI offers. Unfortunatelly you will be depositing a week I don't want to trade for at Disney,which will probably have high trading power, allowing you to exchange for a really good RCI week I do want.  I wish DVC would go back to II and take their whining, RCI resort bashing renters (RTU= rent to use) with them. The big losers in this aren't the DVC owners (who only deposit their weeks if they want to), it's the RCI owners who never want to go to Disney again in their life but will lose really great trades to many new DVC RCI members.
> 
> What is there for RCI members to get excited about? It's not like we got access to Marriott trades! We got Disney and DVC. Big deal. There are already more high quality resorts in Orlando through RCI than you will ever stay in (without access to DVC). DVC owners, please call DVC and complain. Hopefully it will get you back to II and we will all be happy.


Is it all bout you, or do the other thousands of RCI Members who do enjoy Disney/DVC count for anything? I'm not sure, but it kind of sounds like you think RCI should be structured around your desires, and the heck with the other Members.
If I'm reading this correctly, you don't want any resorts to affiliate with RCI that have a better trade power than yours, unless you want to visit that resort... which may be difficult since the trade power is higher??

Besides, as other posters have said- This will free up some weeks that interest you since others will be trying for DVC.



tombo said:


> Most DVC members will join RCI in case they want to exchange. They will then have access to last calls and extra vacations reducing our supply while bringing little to the table. When they exchange their points, they will probably have one of the highest trading values of any resort in RCI, and they are getting the high trade value by depositing an ORLANDO week. A high quality resort in Orlando is the easiest trade to get in RCI. That is good for DVC members, and not much help to RCI members (we could have stayed at a nice place in Orlando without them).


I don't know the details, but if it's the same as II, DVC will have a corporate membership where Members have no access to last calls/extra vacations.

Again, it's all about you. DVC will bring a lot to the table for many people, although you are not one of them.



tombo said:


> When you pay your money to DVC you become a RTU (rent to use) member. You never did and never will own any real estate or interest in any property that DISNEY OWNS. You are only renting a week (actually renting points) each year from Disney for a set number of years, then after your rental lease is up you are left with nothing. Not only don't you own anything, you don't have a vote on management, maintenance fees, or which exchange company Disney will use because renters have no ownership rights.


Yikes... You make this sound like it's a negative. In reality, the vast majority think of this as a major plus. Sometime I think people go on this "renter rant" because they are envious we will not have to saddle our heirs with a piece of junk, broken down resort loaded with fees and special assessments.
Yes, I think that's a very large plus.

Having Disney as the management company is another large plus.
I mean, let's weigh the options.... 
1) Disney, a world class proven high quality outfit, with years of resort and guest relation satisfaction. 
---OR---
2) A few people voted in by members who may or may not know a thing about running a resort. They may try to skimp and save every buck, and slowly the resorts look like crap.

*Example I*
I have some points at the Disney Vero Beach Resort. In 2004, two hurricanes hit the resort, pretty much a direct hit. Both times the resort closed for repairs. The resort was closed for weeks, with many Disney personel working round the clock to get the resort opened.
-- Special assessment?? NO. 
After the resort opened,  the second hurricane hit. Same situation as above, and again NO special asessment.

*Example II*
Now, I'm NOT saying there is anything wrong with Cypress Point, but let's look at the different management styles... 
A few years ago both resorts added pool slides.
-- Look at the slide CP put up at their Volcano Pool. (Scroll 5 pictures down.)
-- Look at the slide Disney Old Key West put up at their Pool.



Again, that in NO WAY is a dig on CP management, but just an example of different management styles.
I understand full well timeos2 has done a nice job getting his resort on the right track.

And as a foot note.. If there are enough votes, DVC Members can fire DVC as the managing entity.


----------



## timeos2

Carl D said:


> *Example I*
> I have some points at the Disney Vero Beach Resort. In 2004, two hurricanes hit the resort, pretty much a direct hit. Both times the resort closed for repairs. The resort was closed for weeks, with many Disney personel working round the clock to get the resort opened.
> -- Special assessment?? NO.
> After the resort opened,  the second hurricane hit. Same situation as above, and again NO special asessment.



What that would tell me is Disney is so overcharging for fees that even in a near disaster they have cash on hand to do the work!  Nice in one way, as you point out there is no special assessment, but those type of major issues usually only happen once or twice in the life of a resort. Collecting at a rate to cover that as the base amount helps lead to the super high annual fees DVC charges. In other words - you are paying WAY too much on an ongoing basis.

Where is the annual audit/ financial report to the renters? What type of management fees are being paid? What type of cash balance on hand?  What are the reserves? Owning in an information vacuum is a risky way to do things and is a very costly approach.  



Carl D said:


> *Example II*
> Now, I'm NOT saying there is anything wrong with Cypress Point, but let's look at the different management styles...
> A few years ago both resorts added pool slides.
> -- Look at the slide CP put up at their Volcano Pool. (Scroll 5 pictures down.)
> -- Look at the slide Disney Old Key West put up at their Pool.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, that in NO WAY is a dig on CP management, but just an example of different management styles.
> I understand full well timeos2 has done a nice job getting his resort on the right track.
> 
> And as a foot note.. If there are enough votes, DVC Members can fire DVC as the managing entity.



This one is a good point - to a degree. The slide you showed for DVC is impressive but it wasn't built by Disney resort management - but Disney the Developer.  Using CP as the example the original developer put in the signature Volcano but no slides of any type.  When the Association decided to install a slide they actually looked at a style to compliment the theme -a "mini-volcano" slide - but the pool would have required reconstruction to meet minimum depth requirements and to get a County permit. The owner Board decided the cost/benefit to that level of major expenditure just didn't meet sound fiscal guidelines, so a more utilitarian model that meets the permit requirement of the original pool was purchased.  It was all decided by the very owners who pay for it - not simply decreed by those who sell the RTU product but paid for by the RTU user fees. 

Based on the amount of happy, splashing use those basic slides see each day I guess the users don't much care if its a castle or a tube.  

Nothing at all wrong with DVC as long as you are comfortable with the heavy price and no control. Some people do like it that way and so it succeeds.  By the way, how would the property renters ever remove DVC as management? They have no voting rights. As mentioned above did they get a say in the change this thread is all about? Did they even get told prior to it being a done deal? Of course not. It is indeed a Magic Kingdom where the buyers pay but have no say.


----------



## tombo

Carl D said:


> Is it all bout you, or do the other thousands of RCI Members who do enjoy Disney/DVC count for anything? I'm not sure, but it kind of sounds like you think RCI should be structured around your desires, and the heck with the other Members.



If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI. They were so mad to be stuck with these low quality exchanges available through RCI. Several of us were explaining why RCI has been good to us and that other than losing Marriott DVC owners would have as many high quality resorts and a lot more exchange options than they used to in II. They responded with more crticism of RCI resorts. I finally got sick of hearing about the tragedy it is to rent high quality DVC points and to have to exchange into lowly RCI resorts. 

After having RCI resorts (which we own) bashed long enough, I felt it was time to explain that many RCI members (not just myself) didn't feel that we were getting anything worthwhile by adding DVC to RCI. All about me, heck most of this thread was all about the poor DVC owners who would only be able to exchange into slums starting in January. They got ripped off and there were hardly any RCI resorts that they would even consider staying in. The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.

I felt that the fact that RCI isn't all about DVC needed to be made also. It has existed for a long time without DVC and we have made many great exchanges without access to DVC's limited number of resorts. Every RCI member isn't salivating over the chance to exchange for DVC. Some DVC renters feel like RCI got gold while they got lead. I never plan to go to Disney again in my life and numerous other TUGGERS feel the same way. DVC renters now get access to the world through RCI, we get another Orlando, and DVC feels they got screwed. We already have more access to Orlando than most of us will ever use (without DVC).  As I said previously, for any DVC renter who doesn't think RCI is worth belonging to, please DON"T JOIN! DVC doesn't make you join, they simply give you the option. For every DVC member that is mad to be associated with RCI, there are at least as many RCI members that wish you weren't in RCI either. The difference is that you don't have to join RCI, we have to let you join whether we ever want to exchange for DVC or not.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Arrogance, Shmairygance.*




tombo said:


> The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.


You call it arrogance & I call it pride of ownership -- or, more accurately, RTUership (but that's just a tiny quibble). 

As a non-DVC person who belongs to RCI, I do not take any of this as an insult.  I simply figure that the people who paid a pretty penny for DVC did so on their understanding that DVC is _The Best_ & _The Most Special_.  Anything that appears to diminish that in the slightest is unlikely to sit well with them.  And that's not even suggesting that DVC _isn't_ _The Best_ & _The Most Special_.  For all I know it may well be. 

Where the DVC folks who feel heartbroken over the switch to RCI may be a teeny-tiny bit off the mark is in the notion that I-I is somehow head & shoulders superior to RCI. 

Without going near any claim that _RCI Can Do No Wrong_ (an idea I reject), I think it's fair to say that RCI has possibly a better overall quality mix of timeshares than I-I.  I'm basing that only on what I've read about I-I right here on TUG-BBS; my actual timeshare-exchange experience, limited as it is, is strictly RCI.  (So it goes.) 

Putting it another way, the picture I get is that I-I has some crown jewels & some OK timeshares & lots of dogs & cats. 

RCI by contrast has a few crown jewels, plenty of semi-jewels, lots & lots of OK timeshares, & its own complement of dogs & cats. 

I won't even get into the customer service issues, which I-I & RCI members alike both gripe about right here on TUG-BBS. 

As to concern over DVC's opening its doors to the great unwashed RCI throng via DVC's recent exchange company switch, only time well tell whether that will be much of a problem for DVC owners & if so, how bad a problem. 

Meanwhile, some RCI members are so turned off by the timeshares that treat exchange guests as 2nd class citz. (e.g., DVC & Manhattan Club, which charge exchange guests extra fees that owners don't pay), that they won't even be looking for DVC availability, much less trying to trade in.  

In any case, I'm hoping it all shakes out ultimately so that nobody's DVC experience is diminished in any way.  For what the high-end timeshare owners (& RTUers) have to shell out for that status, nobody should rain on their parade. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## icydog

*I disagree with your analysis*



tombo said:


> If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI. They were so mad to be stuck with these low quality exchanges available through RCI. Several of us were explaining why RCI has been good to us and that other than losing Marriott DVC owners would have as many high quality resorts and a lot more exchange options than they used to in II. They responded with more crticism of RCI resorts. I finally got sick of hearing about the tragedy it is to rent high quality DVC points and to have to exchange into lowly RCI resorts.
> 
> After having RCI resorts (which we own) bashed long enough, I felt it was time to explain that many RCI members (not just myself) didn't feel that we were getting anything worthwhile by adding DVC to RCI. All about me, heck most of this thread was all about the poor DVC owners who would only be able to exchange into slums starting in January. They got ripped off and there were hardly any RCI resorts that they would even consider staying in. The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.
> 
> I felt that the fact that RCI isn't all about DVC needed to be made also. It has existed for a long time without DVC and we have made many great exchanges without access to DVC's limited number of resorts. Every RCI member isn't salivating over the chance to exchange for DVC. *Some DVC renters feel like RCI got gold while they got lead.* I never plan to go to Disney again in my life and numerous other TUGGERS feel the same way. DVC renters now get access to the world through RCI, *we get another Orlando, and DVC feels they got screwed.* We already have more access to Orlando than most of us will ever use (without DVC).  As I said previously, *for any DVC renter who doesn't think RCI is worth belonging to, please DON"T JOIN!* DVC doesn't make you join, they simply give you the option. *For every DVC member that is mad to be associated with RCI, there are at least as many RCI members that wish you weren't in RCI either*. The difference is that you don't have to join RCI, we have to let you join whether we ever want to exchange for DVC or not.



DVC owners are not renters. We are owners. We have a deed which can be transferred, willed or sold.. Renters are found in Vacation Clubs like Royal Holiday. There's no deed there. I know, I own some of their resorts. 

Also, I would bet you that you are in a tiny minority when you say that RCI members will not want to trade into DVC. The DVC resorts at Walt Disney World allow RCI members a myriad of activities from which to choose. 

Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.. I cannot think of any place on earth that affords their owners such options. There is everything there from theme parks, to campgrounds, to horseback riding, to canoeing, to parasailing, to swimming with dolphins, to small watercraft, to tea with princesses, to dinner with Mickey Mouse, to lunch with Winnie the Pooh, to a wonderful dining plan, to first class dining options. And don't forget the free transportation to your resort and free transportation around the resort so you don't need to rent a car or shop for groceries. 

We have lakes, rivers, lazy river pools, roller coaster water slides (and many other kinds of water slides too)  the largest sandy bottomed pool in the world, aquariums, log flumes, beaches, fountains.. a myriad of places to cool off in. 

We have all types of restaurants and clubs. We have our own shopping area. We have our own sports complex. 

Other DVC owners can add to the list. I'll bet there will be an *gigantic* influx of RCI members requesting exchanges into DVC. Mark my words. You'll see I'm right!!


----------



## icydog

AwayWeGo said:


> You call it arrogance & I call it pride of ownership -- or, more accurately, RTUership (but that's just a tiny quibble).
> 
> As a non-DVC person who belongs to RCI, I do not take any of this as an insult.  I simply figure that the people who paid a pretty penny for DVC did so on their understanding that DVC is _The Best_ & _The Most Special_.  Anything that appears to diminish that in the slightest is unlikely to sit well with them.  And that's not even suggesting that DVC _isn't_ _The Best_ & _The Most Special_.  For all I know it may well be.
> 
> Where the DVC folks who feel heartbroken over the switch to RCI may be a teeny-tiny bit off the mark is in the notion that I-I is somehow head & shoulders superior to RCI.
> 
> Without going near any claim that _RCI Can Do No Wrong_ (an idea I reject), I think it's fair to say that RCI has possibly a better overall quality mix of timeshares than I-I.  I'm basing that only on what I've read about I-I right here on TUG-BBS; my actual timeshare-exchange experience, limited as it is, is strictly RCI.  (So it goes.)
> 
> Putting it another way, the picture I get is that I-I has some crown jewels & some OK timeshares & lots of dogs & cats.
> 
> RCI by contrast has a few crown jewels, plenty of semi-jewels, lots & lots of OK timeshares, & its own complement of dogs & cats.
> 
> I won't even get into the customer service issues, which I-I & RCI members alike both gripe about right here on TUG-BBS.
> 
> As to concern over DVC's opening its doors to the great unwashed RCI throng via DVC's recent exchange company switch, only time well tell whether that will be much of a problem for DVC owners & if so, how bad a problem.
> 
> Meanwhile, some RCI members are so turned off by the timeshares that treat exchange guests as 2nd class citz. (e.g., DVC & Manhattan Club, which charge exchange guests extra fees that owners don't pay), that they won't even be looking for DVC availability, much less trying to trade in.
> 
> In any case, I'm hoping it all shakes out ultimately so that nobody's DVC experience is diminished in any way.  For what the high-end timeshare owners (& RTUers) have to shell out for that status, nobody should rain on their parade.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



This was a very nice post, and accurate too. Thanks


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## timeos2

*What can you do that anyone else can't? Nothing. But you pay more*



icydog said:


> DVC owners are not renters. We are owners. We have a deed which can be transferred, willed or sold.. Renters are found in Vacation Clubs like Royal Holiday. There's no deed there. I know, I own some of their resorts.



Deeded or not when there is nothing you own or control except the obligation to pay whatever fees they want to charge up to the last year when the landlord takes it back with $0 to you after XX years that is much closer to a lease/rental than a sale. Twist it all you want , the "deed" only says you owe for XX years just as a lease would. 



icydog said:


> Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.. I cannot think of any place on earth that affords their owners such options. There is everything there from theme parks, to campgrounds, to horseback riding, to canoeing, to parasailing, to swimming with dolphins, to small watercraft, to tea with princesses, to dinner with Mickey Mouse, to lunch with Winnie the Pooh, to a wonderful dining plan, to first class dining options. And don't forget the free transportation to your resort and free transportation around the resort so you don't need to rent a car or shop for groceries.
> 
> We have lakes, rivers, lazy river pools, roller coaster water slides (and many other kinds of water slides too)  the largest sandy bottomed pool in the world, aquariums, log flumes, beaches, fountains.. a myriad of places to cool off in.
> 
> We have all types of restaurants and clubs. We have our own shopping area. We have our own sports complex.



None of which is unique or unavailable to anyone who wants to buy in with a ticket or just go onsite. Any ticket - even expired - and you can ride the transportation. The restaurants, stores, pools (if you pay to rent a room) etc all open to the public.  And at a MUCH lower cost then a DVC long term lease. The DVC members get nothing but a smaller than most timeshare unit and some fancy lobby's.   If you enjoy it and want to pay the steep fare, great. But thinking it is unique or somehow super special is all marketing hype and few do that better than Disney & Microsoft. Two of the greediest "user oriented" companies that have ever existed. At least Disney can be fun and hasn't been convicted of monopolistic practices.

As for trading in - never. Not interested in the slightest. Don't need to be treated as an interloper who gets nicked for $95 that the long term renter who made the deposit already paid. And if any DVC member goes to another resort on a trade they should automatically be charged a $95 penalty fee as well. Fair is fair. Maybe RCI can set that up.  Even the long term lease holders know that fee is wrong but, of course, they have no right to change it. After all they only rent for XX years.  DVC has 100% control as most landlords do. After all - THEY own it.


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## bnoble

> Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.


But, I think it is important to remember that the park-affiliated resorts serve a highly-targeted market.  We can argue about how big the market is.  But, it's clear that if you are visiting "Disney", then DVC offers something truly unique that no other resort system can match at any price.  On the other hand, for those visiting "Orlando," or "Florida", then there are many Orlando-area resorts which those folks might consider superior.  The better non-Disney resorts typically have units that are larger, better appionted, and more luxurious than the Disney resorts.  Many of those resorts also have amenities and activity slates that surpass the DVC resorts themselves.  The resorts plus the theme parks and other gated attractions?  No.  But, the resorts, considered solely on their own merits?  Yes.

In fact, this leads to an interesting discussion I've been having over on DIS about the direction DVC seems to be taking.  Only a few years ago, DVC was marketed almost entirely at the Disney fan---folks who wanted to vacation every year with Mickey.  If you look at the advertising material now though---particualrly the Travel Channel infomercial from a several months back---all that pixie dust is almost an afterthought.

If you read between the lines, it appears that The Powers That Be at DVC have come to the same conclusion that many of us have: that, ultimately, the drawing power of pixie dust is limited, and to continue to grow at their current pace, DVC is going to have to figure out how to market to people who don't plan to come visit "Disney" every year.  It's a hard thing to do to change your brand perception---they had to invent a whole new movie studio to market films targeted at teens and adults.


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## tombo

timeos2 said:


> As for trading in - never. Not interested in the slightest. Don't need to be treated as an interloper who gets nicked for $95 that the long term renter who made the deposit already paid. And if any DVC member goes to another resort on a trade they should automatically be charged a $95 penalty fee as well. Fair is fair. Maybe RCI can set that up.



I agree. If  RCI members have to pay an additional $95 to use what the DVC owners deposit, then the DVC owners whould have to pay that same extra $95 to use whatever they exchange for.


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## AwayWeGo

*You Are Correct, Sir.*




tombo said:


> If  RCI members have to pay an additional $95 to use what the DVC owners deposit, then the DVC owners whould have to pay that same extra $95 to use whatever they exchange for.


Absolutely right. 

It's never going to happen, but that's another story. 

The people at DVC act as though they are unclear on the concept of Timeshare Exchange, which, properly understood, means that the exchanger gets exactly what the the owner deposits. 

Otherwise, (a) it's not truly an exchange & (b) the exchange guests are treated as 2nd class citz. 

The concept is not that hard to grasp, so I conclude therefore that DVC imposes the nuisance fees on exchange guests to make a point about DVC's class-apart superiority (plus $95 per time in good green money), rather than because DVC doesn't know any better. 

Putting it more crudely, DVC does it for the same reason a dog licks itself -- because it can. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## calgarygary

What a thread/news to come back to after vacation.  I had SVN deposit a non Orlando week into II just so I could trade into DVC - oh well, and so it goes (borrowed a line).

We love Disney and have stayed onsite and offsite but could never justify the cost of buying DVC.  With no great savings through the DVC resale market, the savings of owning resale at Vistana Villages for a family of 6 could easily buy you a second vacation every year.  Yeh, if you are going to visit the mouse it's nice to stay with him, but not that nice.


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## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> Deeded or not when there is nothing you own or control except the obligation to pay whatever fees they want to charge up to the last year when the landlord takes it back with $0 to you after XX years that is much closer to a lease/rental than a sale. Twist it all you want , the "deed" only says you owe for XX years just as a lease would.


Partially correct, but completely misleading.

First, the incorrect part.. DVC can NOT charge you whatever fees they want. There is a cap on fee increases, and in order to go beyond the cap the Members must approve it.

Now granted, we do not own DVC "in perpetuity". That said, we are not true renters either. Try renting a car from Avis, then selling it. 
My guess is that will clear up the confusion.

Renting gives the impression that we pay a new rental price every year. Of course that's not true, as we pay one purchase price. We don't pay a new rental fee every visit that will rise with inflation over the years.

Let's look at a comparison-
-- We pay an initial purchase price... So do you.
-- We pay an annual fee... So do you.
-- Our timeshare will be worth $0 in the year 2057... So will yours (probably). Heck, many are worth $0 in 2008.
-- We can sell or will our timeshare... So can you.
-- We get a lifetime of great vacation accommodations... So do you.
-- We get a great value for the dollars spent... So do you. (That of course is personal preference.)

I could continue, but I think you get the point...
From a practical standpoint, there is no difference between RTU and owning in perpetuity.



> None of which is unique or unavailable to anyone who wants to buy in with a ticket or just go onsite. Any ticket - even expired - and you can ride the transportation.


I used to agree with you about this, but there is some discussion that the policy has changed. From a practical matter, bus drivers are not checking IDs..



> The restaurants, stores, pools (if you pay to rent a room) etc all open to the public.  And at a MUCH lower cost then a DVC long term lease. The DVC members get nothing but a smaller than most timeshare unit and some fancy lobby's.


And exotic animals right off your balcony, and a view of the Magic Kingdom, and a three minute walk to Epcot...



> If you enjoy it and want to pay the steep fare, great. But thinking it is unique or somehow super special is all marketing hype...


Well, it certainly IS unique and special. As I said above.. What other Orlando timeshare overlooks giraffes from your balcony? What other ts is on Disney property? That is unique, by definition.


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## bnoble

> From a practical standpoint, there is no difference between RTU and owning in perpetuity.


Well, except that one ends and the other doesn't.  That sounds "different" to me.  Not necessarily "better" or "worse", but certainly different.

In my opinion, DVD's "deeded leasehold" idea was a stroke of genius.  It allows sales to sidestep the (perhaps spurious) "no deed" objection, while still allowing Disney to retain complete and utter control over RCID.  Pure brilliance.


----------



## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> What that would tell me is Disney is so overcharging for fees that even in a near disaster they have cash on hand to do the work!  Nice in one way, as you point out there is no special assessment, but those type of major issues usually only happen once or twice in the life of a resort. Collecting at a rate to cover that as the base amount helps lead to the super high annual fees DVC charges. In other words - you are paying WAY too much on an ongoing basis.


I believe our annual fees are commensurate with services provided. 
I should add that when the Vero Beach Resort reopened, it was in pristine condition. Not a flower out of place.

Personally, I am very happy with the way DVC budgets our dollars. *IF* my fees were a few pennies/pt higher because they budget for tragedy, I think that's an excellent management decision.



> Where is the annual audit/ financial report to the renters? What type of management fees are being paid? What type of cash balance on hand?  What are the reserves? Owning in an information vacuum is a risky way to do things and is a very costly approach.


Our annual budget spells this out, although probably not in the detail you are looking for.



> This one is a good point - to a degree. The slide you showed for DVC is impressive but it wasn't built by Disney resort management - but Disney the Developer.  Using CP as the example the original developer put in the signature Volcano but no slides of any type.


Yes, and this goes to the heart of my point.
I understand that DVC, DVD, and other divisions of Disney are all individual entities. That said, they all fall under the Walt Disney Company umbrella, and that's where the strength of DVC is derived from. I have no idea if DVC/DVD would have been successful had it been outsourced without backing from the WDC. 
I know the different entities have different operating budgets, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if DVC needed capital funding, the WDC would be there to help. After all... Where do you think DVC profits wind up?

Don't forget that DVC annual fees pay for upkeep, and lifeguards associated with the slide. (I'm assuming it's like the other resorts, where there is a lifeguard on duty when the slide is operational.)



> Based on the amount of happy, splashing use those basic slides see each day I guess the users don't much care if its a castle or a tube.


Until you put the two next to each other and see which the kids choose, there is no way to know this. 



> By the way, how would the property renters ever remove DVC as management? They have no voting rights.


I really don't know how it works, but I do know there is a provision in the POS for voting in a different management company.


----------



## Carl D

bnoble said:


> Well, except that one ends and the other doesn't.  That sounds "different" to me.  Not necessarily "better" or "worse", but certainly different.


True, but as I said, we will both have a lifetime of vacation accommodations. From a practical standpoint that is the same thing.

The debate is really about what happens to the ts after we are gone. I would rather not saddle my heirs with a 50 year old decrepit resort they may not want, plus stick them with high fees. 
Others may have a different opinion.


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## luvsvacation22

ricoba said:


> As a HGVC owner, I am sort of annoyed with y'all who think that all of us who are linked to RCI are a bunch of country bumpkins and only stay in converted motels!
> 
> I was rereading through this thread and once again when I read your post again, it maded me laugh!:hysterical:  country bumpkins ....funny!


----------



## luvsvacation22

tombo said:


> Most DVC members will join RCI in case they want to exchange. They will then have access to last calls and extra vacations reducing our supply while bringing little to the table. When they exchange their points, they will probably have one of the highest trading values of any resort in RCI, and they are getting the high trade value by depositing an ORLANDO week. A high quality resort in Orlando is the easiest trade to get in RCI. That is good for DVC members, and not much help to RCI members (we could have stayed at a nice place in Orlando without them).
> 
> DVC members revolt! Show RCI and DVC that you won't put up with it. Call your congressmen and complain. File lawsuits over this injustice. And by all means nothing will show your disdain like not joining RCI. The RCI fees are $800 a year, the exchange fee is $1000 a week ($95 extra if you deposit DVC), and all that is available through RCI is 3 converted motels in Orlando.
> By all means don't complain and join RCI, make a stand and show everyone how mad you are by not joining RCI. DVC owners, please boycott RCI for the good of all.



I love TUG! Where else can I get a such a great laugh! :hysterical:


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI. They were so mad to be stuck with these low quality exchanges available through RCI.


I think you should reread the first 3 or 4 pages.
I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them. 
-- I see one or two DVC Members expressing displeasure with the move, which is a legitimate thing to post about.
-- I see several *non* DVC Members upset because they can no longer trade into DVC.
-- I see several DVC Members making a generic comment about the move, without showing displeasure.

-- I see zero whining.

I may still be missing something, so perhaps you can repost the the whining posts??


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> As I said previously, for any DVC renter who doesn't think RCI is worth belonging to, please DON"T JOIN! DVC doesn't make you join, they simply give you the option.


This is incorrect.
DVC Members do not join, and do not have the option to join the exchange company. Nor do they have the option to opt out.
DVC has a corporate membership, and any membership fees are paid through annual fees. So, DVC is a corporate Member, and the individual Members are in tow.
DVC Members can not call the exchange company to request an exchange. It's all internal and seamless to the Member. All we do is call DVC Member Services, and they handle all the exchanging stuff.

*I should clarify that I don't know the details yet. I'm assuming it will work the same as when DVC was associated with II*


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## bnoble

RCI is crowing about 135K new members, so I'm pretty sure you won't have a choice.



> I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them....


Over on DIS, the mix is about the same.  A few DVC owners are bummed to lose Marriott.  Most of the big time complaining is from the folks who'd become accustomed to getting in on the cheap through II.  Of course, with just a little effort (and maybe an adjustment of their timeshare portfolio), those folks may well be able to get in on the cheap through RCI instead, depending on the details.

Carl, as a dyed-in-the-wool pixie-dust person, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about this:


> If you read between the lines, it appears that The Powers That Be at DVC have come to the same conclusion that many of us have: that, ultimately, the drawing power of pixie dust is limited, and to continue to grow at their current pace, DVC is going to have to figure out how to market to people who don't plan to come visit "Disney" every year. It's a hard thing to do to change your brand perception---they had to invent a whole new movie studio to market films targeted at teens and adults.


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## tombo

QUOTE:I think you should reread the first 3 or 4 pages.
I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them. 
-- I see one or two DVC Members expressing displeasure with the move, which is a legitimate thing to post about.
-- I see several non DVC Members upset because they can no longer trade into DVC.
-- I see several DVC Members making a generic comment about the move, without showing displeasure.

-- I see zero whining.

I may still be missing something, so perhaps you can repost the the whining posts??




icydog said:


> I want the ability to trade into Resorts that are within parity with DVC.  I do not know of any on the RCi rosters that meet that criteria. Why would I trade down. What advantage will that be to me????






ANOTHER QUOTE"The amount I paid for DVC, plus the high maintenance fees I pay yearly, makes me unhappy with this arrangement. Now, instead of being one of many fine resorts, as we were in II, we will be the best resorts in RCI. I would rather be a big fish in a small pool rather than a big fish in an gigantic pool. In any case DVC is a big fish. Will I get the trades with DVC I want, I doubt it since there is Nothing in RCI I really want. I own several RCI weekly contracts and there little there to compare to DVC. I traded to the Houses at Summer Bay, and that may be comparable, but other than that, including the Manhattan Club, nothing compares to DVC. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or call it a silk purse, RCi is still a sow's ear to me."



ANOTHER QUOTE (yours): "Please make your voice heard 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who wish to COMPLAIN, and I already did, you can do so to Jim Lewis, President DVC, 407-566-3830 AND to Nicole Florio, DVC Customer Satisfaction Manager, 321-939-4498."




Another quote:  "I called Nicole Florio, who is the DVC Member Satisfaction Manager. I was furious. There are NO resorts in RCI that can compete with DVC. All of the top resorts are in II. I can only guess that parties in the DVC organization might have benefited from this. Otherwise why would they do this. They are undervaluing Disney by putting DVC in with subpar resorts. None compare in cost of maintenance fees, none in amenities, none in service, none in buy in price, none in value, and none in quality. 

I invited Nicole to do a Google Search under Class Action Suit and RCI. I told her about them selling weeks, their lower quality resorts, their non service etc, but she seemed immune to my protestations. She said they, DVC, were going to give RCI a chance, and that RCI would bring more opportunities to members for different types of vacations like, all inclusive resorts, like anyone cares, cruises, and most importantly, daily use of resorts. 

I told her I was upset that I would not be able to exchange into DVC with high quality resorts, like Marriotts, that cost the same as DVC and that have similar maintenance fees. I told her the only resort of value in RCI is the Manhattan Club and that is not that valuable either. She said DVC would NOT be Using II in the Future. 

She said that they (DVC) had done its homework and had been offered a wonderful contract from RCI. She told me to try it out since this was the way DVC was going in the future. I hung up and felt sick to my stomach."


Above are 4 quotes from 3 different DVC owners. Whether you classify them as whining, RCI bashing, arrogance, or complaining (or all of the above) is up to the person's interpretation who is reading the posts.

However, after re-reading many posts I attributed to DVC owners, I do stand corrected. Many were made by people who don't actually own at DVC.


----------



## Carl D

bnoble said:


> Carl, as a dyed-in-the-wool pixie-dust person, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about this:


I'm not sure where that quote came from, but I do believe there is a bit of truth to it.
I don't see where the "changing your brand perception" comes into play, but maybe I'm wrong.

One thing is for certain, not every family in the world will want to vacation exclusively at Disney. There are a limited number who do (we are one of them), and many are probably already DVC Members, or want to be Members.

That said, I don't believe DVC ever had to market to the every year visitor. They have always marketed the point system as being able to bank & borrow in order to make one large trip every third year.
In addition they have really pushed trading in recent years.

I think Disney's boldest move to attract the non theme park, world traveler has been the "Adventures by Disney" program, although that is not exclusive to DVC. 

That said, I believe as long as we have population growth, there will always be a growing market for WDW. 
Like now, I believe most will be the casual/occasional visitor, but there will always be DVC diehards as long as the product quality holds.
I believe if DVC announced a DVC Resort at the Polynesian you would see people lining up even faster than the Contemporary. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think the movie studio part was your main question, and I'm guessing the quote is referring to Pixar. If so, Disney certainly didn't invent Pixar, they just own it.
The Animation pictures, when done correctly, would still be popular today. In my opinion they opted for quantity, not quality. You can pump out several mediocre failures in a few years (Pocahontas, Mulan, the list goes on...), or you can do it right --> The Lion King etc.. Unfortunately they took the quantity route, which led to failure, which led to Pixar. At least that's how I see it.


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> QUOTE:I think you should reread the first 3 or 4 pages.
> I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them.
> -- I see one or two DVC Members expressing displeasure with the move, which is a legitimate thing to post about.
> -- I see several non DVC Members upset because they can no longer trade into DVC.
> -- I see several DVC Members making a generic comment about the move, without showing displeasure.
> 
> -- I see zero whining.
> 
> I may still be missing something, so perhaps you can repost the the whining posts??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ANOTHER QUOTE"The amount I paid for DVC, plus the high maintenance fees I pay yearly, makes me unhappy with this arrangement. Now, instead of being one of many fine resorts, as we were in II, we will be the best resorts in RCI. I would rather be a big fish in a small pool rather than a big fish in an gigantic pool. In any case DVC is a big fish. Will I get the trades with DVC I want, I doubt it since there is Nothing in RCI I really want. I own several RCI weekly contracts and there little there to compare to DVC. I traded to the Houses at Summer Bay, and that may be comparable, but other than that, including the Manhattan Club, nothing compares to DVC. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or call it a silk purse, RCi is still a sow's ear to me."
> 
> Above are 2 quotes from DVC owners. Whether you classify them as whining, RCI bashing, arrogance, or complaining (or all of the above) is up to the person's interpretation who is reading the posts.
> 
> However, after re-reading many posts I attributed to DVC owners, I do stand corrected. Most were made by people who don't actually own at DVC.


You pulled out 1 (one) poster?? And as you said, some may not consider that a whine.

*You said:



			If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## tombo

Carl D said:


> You pulled out 1 (one) poster?? And as you said, some may not consider that a whine.
> 
> *You said:
> *



Please reread my above post. I kept looking and I now have 4 separate posts from 3 different DVC posters containing what is in my opinion whining, complaining, and RCI bashing. As I said above, after re-reading not all of the complaints were from DVC owners.

To be fair, please list the huge number of positive RCI posts made by DVC owners. Look hard and you might find one or two DVC owners glad to be with RCI and happy with the quality of RCI resorts. I didn't notice any but there might be some.


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## Carl D

tombo said:


> Please reread my above post. I kept looking and I now have 4 separate posts from 3 different DVC posters containing what is in my opinion whining, complaining, and RCI bashing. As I said above, after re-reading not all of the complaints were from DVC owners. However please list the huge number of positive RCI posts made by DVC owners. Look hard and you might find one or two.[/


I guess we should just let it go at this point. 
I do see where you admitted your mistake, and that was good of you to do.

Just to clarify, I never claimed there was a huge number of positive RCI posts from DVC Members. Heck, I never claimed there was even one.


----------



## tombo

Carl D said:


> Just to clarify, I never claimed there was a huge number of positive RCI posts from DVC Members. Heck, I never claimed there was even one.



And that is the point. DVC owners seem to feel that what they have is gold, what II has is Gold, and what we own and trade for in RCI is crap. If just a couple of DVC owners made positive statements about RCI (and the RCI resorts we own and trade for) it might not appear to be such a slap in the face. After reading the posts from DVC and non DVC posters, it seems that we (RCI members) own and vacation in unacceptable accomodations. Until DVC joined RCI, I mistakenly thought I vacationed in great resorts.


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> And that is the point. DVC owners seem to feel that what they have is gold, what II has is Gold, and what we own and trade for in RCI is crap. If just a couple of DVC owners made positive statements about RCI (and the RCI resorts we own and trade for) it might not appear to be such a slap in the face. After reading the posts from DVC and non DVC posters, it seems that we (RCI members) own and vacation in unacceptable accomodations. Until DVC joined RCI, I mistakenly thought I vacationed in great resorts.


I said I would leave it alone, but I guess I can't..

DVC publishes their own resort list for trading. When DVC was with II, we had a list of roughly 500 resorts we were allowed to trade into. These were hand picked by DVC as the best, and worthy of DVC. That may sound elitist, but I'm just giving you the facts. The lessor resorts were not available to us for trade.

Now, assuming the same will hold true for the RCI affiliation (for all I know the whole program may change), there will only be a handful of resorts we will be allowed to trade for. I can safely assume they will be the cream of the crop in RCI.

So, it's not necessarily the quality of resorts that DVC Members are concerned about, but rather the specific resorts that Members have grown accustom to. As previously stated in this thread, Members are accustomed to seeing Atlantis on that list... It will no longer be there. Same with some Marriotts. Those resorts may or may not be replaced with equal caliber resorts, that over time Members will get accustomed to. 
If the list ends up being incomparable, than I'm sure Members will complain to DVC.

*The first part of my post is fact, but the second part is opinion.


----------



## bnoble

> I'm not sure where that quote came from


It was mine from earlier in the thread.



> I don't believe DVC ever had to market to the every year visitor. They have always marketed the point system as being able to bank & borrow in order to make one large trip every third year.


Perhaps, but the minimum buy-in is a week in a 2BR in most seasons every other year.  It's hard to visit less frequently unless you start using your points outside Disney.



> I believe as long as we have population growth, there will always be a growing market for WDW.


Not quite---there was pent-up demand when DVC first opened.  At some point, that demand is satiated, and you're in steady state.  If you still only sell to the fans, who want to come back frequently and in perpetuity, DVC's growth rate will have to flatten.

And, there's no way that the sharp-pencil boys want that to happen.



> I don't think the movie studio part was your main question, and I'm guessing the quote is referring to Pixar. If so, Disney certainly didn't invent Pixar, they just own it.


No, I was referring to Touchstone---the label they use for more "adult" fare.  That was a label invented to avoid brand confusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone_Pictures


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## Carl D

bnoble said:


> Perhaps, but the minimum buy-in is a week in a 2BR in most seasons every other year.  It's hard to visit less frequently unless you start using your points outside Disney.


Actually, the minimum buy-in has been reduced. When they started it was 230 points, and that's when DVC only consisted of the lowest point resort, OKW.



> Not quite---there was pent-up demand when DVC first opened. At some point, that demand is satiated, and you're in steady state.  If you still only sell to the fans, who want to come back frequently and in perpetuity, DVC's growth rate will have to flatten.
> 
> And, there's no way that the sharp-pencil boys want that to happen.


When DVC first started, sales were anything but booming. I don't think there was a lot of pent up demand. It took a few years to catch on.
I think I understand your point though... the market was not yet tapped.

I think like most products, sales will flatten over time. Heck, I waited in line for the iPhone, but now you can just walk in.
So, in short, what non consumable product can sustain booming growth?



> No, I was referring to Touchstone---the label they use for more "adult" fare.  That was a label invented to avoid brand confusion.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone_Pictures


Yup. I didn't follow your link, but I was always under the impression that Touchstone was Disney's way to make an "R" rated movie, yet keep the Disney name off the screen.


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## tombo

Carl D said:


> I said I would leave it alone, but I guess I can't..
> 
> DVC publishes their own resort list for trading. When DVC was with II, we had a list of roughly 500 resorts we were allowed to trade into. These were hand picked by DVC as the best, and worthy of DVC. That may sound elitist, but I'm just giving you the facts. The lessor resorts were not available to us for trade.
> 
> Now, assuming the same will hold true for the RCI affiliation (for all I know the whole program may change), there will only be a handful of resorts we will be allowed to trade for. I can safely assume they will be the cream of the crop in RCI.
> 
> So, it's not necessarily the quality of resorts that DVC Members are concerned about, but rather the specific resorts that Members have grown accustom to. As previously stated in this thread, Members are accustomed to seeing Atlantis on that list... It will no longer be there. Same with some Marriotts. Those resorts may or may not be replaced with equal caliber resorts, that over time Members will get accustomed to.
> If the list ends up being incomparable, than I'm sure Members will complain to DVC.
> 
> *The first part of my post is fact, but the second part is opinion.



 DVC gives you a list of resorts you are allowed to trade in to? That is another reason I would never be a DVC renter. I would be mad if I was limited from trading for any resort I wanted that other II or RCI members could access. To have the arrogance as a company (or renter )to say that you hand pick the resorts that are worthy of DVC is a joke. You said it might sound elitist, and that lessor resorts aren't available to trade?  Arrogance is a better description than elitist. Those type of statements are why so many non DVC owners resent DVC renters.

 I personally will never stay in a DVC resort because I don't like Disney and because I refuse to pay $95 more than I would pay to stay at another Orlando location with as many amenities and larger rooms. I guess I too am an elitist since I only want to stay in resorts with large rooms. However, in spite of my personal preferences, I would never say that no one who owns at my resort should be allowed to trade for DVC just because I don't like the resort, and I would be mad if the resort made that decision for it's owners. I guess when you "rent" you expect the landlord (DVC) to make decisions on where you can stay that "owners" can make for themselves at resorts like Marriott (to the best of my knowledge Marriott owners can trade for any II resort that is available, not just those that Marriott deems worthy). Surely if DVC didn't limit the resorts their renters could stay in, the DVC renters (who I assume are grown adults) could somehow manage to pick the resorts they liked for themselves. There are reviews here on TUG you can read to help you choose the resort that is right for you (you can access them if you join TUG).

Yes, you might be used to seeing Atlantis in II, but how often do you want to go to the Bahamas? If you like Atlantis, I think the current special staying in Atlantis is $399 for 3 nights. Why would you waste your DVC points to stay near Atlantis when you can stay in the Atlantis resort cheaper than your annual MF's? And the 2 Four seasons, how often does a DVC owner stay there? Other than Marriott there are few resorts that RCI can't match, and there are a lot more choices through RCI if DVC deems them DVC worthy.

Losing Marriott's I do understand. I don't care if DVC goes back to II this afternoon as I will never stay there, but if Marriott came to RCI I would be very excited. Marriott is IMO the best timeshare system there is, and I would own there except for the ROFR and high MF's (I am still considering buying now since they aren't currently ROFR'ing). The main thing I understand is DVC owners are upset about no longer having access to Marriott. I would feel the same way.

You make the assertion that if the list is incomparable you are sure that many renters will complain. Well actually before the first RCI exchange has been made by a DVC renter, members are already complaining to DVC. In fact another DVC poster previously gave the phone number and address to complain and said that they had already expressed their displeasure. I am going to call the number and complain about DVC being with RCI myself. Hopefully if we all work together and complain loud enough we can get DVC back to II and we will all be happy. Until that happens please don't deposit your DVC weeks with RCI because there isn't a single comparable trade in RCI to a DVC week. All RCI resorts are far superior to what DVC has to offer (oops did that sound elitist?).


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> You make the assertion that if the list is incomparable you are sure that many renters will complain. Well actually before the first RCI exchange has been made by a DVC renter, members are already complaining to DVC. In fact you previously gave the phone number and address to complain and said that you already had expressed your displeasure. I am going to call the number and complain about DVC being with RCI myself. Hopefully if we all work together and complain loud enough we can get DVC back to II and we will all be happy. Until that happens please don't deposit your DVC weeks with RCI because there isn't a single comparable trade in RCI to a DVC week. All RCI resorts are far superior to what DVC has to offer (oops did that sound elitist?).


I will respond to the rest of the post later when I have time, but for now you had better get your facts straight. I never gave any number and urged people to complain.


----------



## tombo

Carl D said:


> I will respond to the rest of the post later when I have time, but for now you had better get your facts straight. I never gave any number and urged people to complain.



Double checked, it wasn't your post, so I changed my post. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. As I get older it seems like I am wrong more often.


----------



## calgarygary

tombo said:


> .....
> Yes, you might be used to seeing Atlantis in II, but how often do you want to go to the Bahamas? If you like Atlantis, I think the current special staying in Atlantis is $399 for 3 nights. Why would you waste your DVC points to stay near Atlantis when you can stay in the Atlantis resort cheaper than your annual MF's? And the 2 Four seasons, how often does a DVC owner stay there? Other than Marriott there are few resorts that RCI can't match, and there are a lot more choices through RCI if DVC deems them DVC worthy....



Why would you compare staying in one of the cheaper rooms of Atlantis to staying at Harborside?  I would not compare staying at the All Stars to staying at AKV.  Although DVC may have thought they were cream of the crop for II, there are many, many great resorts that surpassed them, even for location because there is a world outside of WDW.


----------



## tombo

calgarygary said:


> Why would you compare staying in one of the cheaper rooms of Atlantis to staying at Harborside?  I would not compare staying at the All Stars to staying at AKV.  Although DVC may have thought they were cream of the crop for II, there are many, many great resorts that surpassed them, even for location because there is a world outside of WDW.



I agree with you 100% because when I vacation I want to go anywhere but Disney, so there is a huge world outside of WDW. Now that they are with RCI, DVC seems to feel they are better than anything available through RCI too. 

I have never stayed at Harborside, so I was just assuming that it would be better to stay onsite at the Atlantis than to stay next door. From what I understand Harborside is a really nice resort and if it is head an shoulders above staying at Atlantis then I used a bad example.


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## Eli Mairs

*DVC was originally with RCI*

I don't know if any of you were around at the beginning, but when we bought in 1992,  DVC was only affiliated with RCI. I have a list of the Gold Crown  resorts that were available for exchange in 1992.

I can't remember when they dumped RCI in favor of II, but I believe that it was within the first few years. I guess that they've come full circle.


----------



## icydog

AwayWeGo said:


> Putting it more crudely, DVC does it for the same reason a dog licks itself -- because it can.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



You're right that WAS crude and inappropriate. The last post I made I complimented you. Now I am insulted. I do not need this type of rhetoric. Sounds like a junior high remark!! YUCK!


----------



## Eli Mairs

Carl D said:


> True, but as I said, we will both have a lifetime of vacation accommodations. From a practical standpoint that is the same thing.
> 
> The debate is really about what happens to the ts after we are gone. I would rather not saddle my heirs with a 50 year old decrepit resort they may not want, plus stick them with high fees.
> Others may have a different opinion.



Carl:

I couldn't agree with you more.

To date, we have enjoyed 16 years of our 50 year membership. When the time is up, my husband and I will either be in our mid 90's or dead.

I know that my kids, who will probably be grandparents in their 70's by then, will not want to be saddled with our membership, so I am happy that it will  end at the designated time.

In the meantime, Disney has a vested interest in maintaining DVC to the highest standard. 

It will be interesting to see the condition of other vacation ownership resorts 40 or 50 years from now.


----------



## timeos2

*Why pay for perfection if next year it belongs to someone else?*



Eli Mairs said:


> Carl:
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more.
> 
> To date, we have enjoyed 16 years of our 50 year membership. When the time is up, my husband and I will either be in our mid 90's or dead.
> 
> I know that my kids, who will probably be grandparents in their 70's by then, will not want to be saddled with our membership, so I am happy that it will  end at the designated time.
> 
> In the meantime, Disney has a vested interest in maintaining DVC to the highest standard.
> 
> It will be interesting to see the condition of other vacation ownership resorts 40 or 50 years from now.



But Disney won't be paying to maintain it - you will! And then poof  - its gone. In perfect shape, ready to be sold or whatever.  Easy to say you won't care but what will you do when you're 80 and the $3000+ ( or $4000 0r $2500 - it can be whatever DVC decides they "need") comes in, there is only 10 years left in the "ownership" so the resale value is zero (why pay big bucks for 1<10 years when you can buy forever or at least 50 years "new"?).  You can't sell and you owe the fees. What will you do?  No different than any other timeshare. Except Disney fees are already one of the highest - where do you think they will be in another 20+ years?  Hint - they won't go down.  

As for other resorts they will survive or fall into disrepair depending on what the owners decide to do.  But at least they have control over what happens and how their money is spent. It will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years if we're lucky enough to be around.


----------



## Eli Mairs

timeos2 said:


> But Disney won't be paying to maintain it - you will! And then poof  - its gone. In perfect shape, ready to be sold or whatever.  Easy to say you won't care but what will you do when you're 80 and the $3000+ ( or $4000 0r $2500 - it can be whatever DVC decides they "need") comes in, there is only 10 years left in the "ownership" so the resale value is zero (why pay big bucks for 1<10 years when you can buy forever or at least 50 years "new"?).  You can't sell and you owe the fees. What will you do?  No different than any other timeshare. Except Disney fees are already one of the highest - where do you think they will be in another 20+ years?  Hint - they won't go down.
> 
> As for other resorts they will survive or fall into disrepair depending on what the owners decide to do.  But at least they have control over what happens and how their money is spent. It will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years if we're lucky enough to be around.



Well, as far as I'm concerned, you get what you pay for. I'd rather pay higher fees to keep my resort in *perfect* shape, than pay less and own a resort in disrepair.

Regardless of what the maintenance fees will be in coming years, DVC rental rates will be higher. Renting out the points, which we do occasionally, is always an option. This not only covers the maintenance fees, but gives us a tidy profit.


----------



## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> But Disney won't be paying to maintain it - you will! And then poof  - its gone. In perfect shape, ready to be sold or whatever.  Easy to say you won't care but what will you do when you're 80 and the $3000+ ( or $4000 0r $2500 - it can be whatever DVC decides they "need") comes in, ...


If you have any proof whatsoever this will happen, please provide it. Otherwise you should really not be spewing this nonsense.

After all, I believe CP is going to stick the owners with a $1000 assessment every year until eternity. 
How would you like it if I were to spread those unfounded falsehoods around the internet??



> ... there is only 10 years left in the "ownership" so the resale value is zero (why pay big bucks for 1<10 years when you can buy forever or at least 50 years "new"?).


News flash- The value will not be $0 with even 1 year left. At a rental rate of $20/pt (at least) in 2057, a weeks stay will rent for $4000. 



> You can't sell and you owe the fees. What will you do?


See above.  



> No different than any other timeshare.


Wrong again. 
DVC is totally different since most of the resorts are attached to the Disney Hotels. It makes no sense for one hotel room to rent for $1000/night (2056), but the adjoining 1br villa to be worth $0/night.

Regardless of what you believe about ROFR, what truly keeps the prices of DVC high is the unique distinction of having adjoining Disney accommodations.



> Except Disney fees are already one of the highest


You get what you pay for.


----------



## Carl D

tombo said:


> DVC gives you a list of resorts you are allowed to trade in to? That is another reason I would never be a DVC renter. I would be mad if I was limited from trading for any resort I wanted that other II or RCI members could access. To have the arrogance as a company (or renter )to say that you hand pick the resorts that are worthy of DVC is a joke.


You can laugh all you want, but the DVC Members are happy with that policy. 

I'm not an RCI expert, but I believe RCI in general also has a policy where they don't let you see some lessor resorts if you own a good resort, but perhaps that doesn't apply to you.



> You said it might sound elitist,and that lessor resorts aren't available to trade? Those descriptions are why so many can't stand DVC renters. Arrogance is a better description.


First, it's not the DVC Members that make the rules, so to hate the DVC Members doesn't make any sense.

Getting past that silliness, there is nothing wrong with buying an upscale timeshare and expecting similar in return... That is, unless you're some sort of Socialist.



> I personally will never stay in a DVC resort because I don't like Disney and because I refuse to pay $95 more than I would pay to stay at another Orlando location with as many amenities and larger rooms. I guess I too am an elitist.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... 
My opinion is that you are not well versed in Walt Disney World.



> However, in spite of my personal preferences, I would never say that no one who owns at my resort should be allowed to trade for DVC just because I don't like the resort, and I would be mad if the resort made that decision for it's owners. I guess when you "rent" you expect the landlord (DVC) to make decisions on where you can stay for you that "owners" can make themselves at resorts like Marriott. Surely without DVC choosing the DVC renters (who are grown adults) could pick the resorts they liked for themselves. There are reviews here on TUG you can read to help you choose the resort that is right for you (if you join TUG).


I'm starting to get the feeling this whole "rent/renter" thing is suppose to be some sort of derogatory comment about DVC Members???

Please read my earlier post comparing a RTU ts and an ownership ts.
I honestly feel bad for the "owners" who got stuck with that thing FOREVER!


----------



## tombo

Carl D said:


> I'm not an RCI expert, but I believe RCI in general also has a policy where they don't let you see some lessor resorts if you own a good resort, but perhaps that doesn't apply to you.
> 
> 
> First, it's not the DVC Members that make the rules, so to hate the DVC Members doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Getting past that silliness, there is nothing wrong with buying an upscale timeshare and expecting similar in return... That is, unless you're some sort of Socialist.
> 
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...
> My opinion is that you are not well versed in Walt Disney World.
> 
> 
> I'm starting to get the feeling this whole "rent/renter" thing is suppose to be some sort of derogatory comment about DVC Members???
> 
> Please read my earlier post comparing a RTU ts and an ownership ts.
> I honestly feel bad for the "owners" who got stuck with that thing FOREVER!



Nice non too subtle dig saying I can see lessor resorts implying I don't own good resorts. You are big on getting facts straight so get yours straight. Yes you can see resorts of less value and sometimes resorts of greater value in RCI. I have traded Hospitality resorts for Gold Crown resorts, and I have traded Gold Crown for Hospitality resorts. I have also traded studios for 2 bed rooms and I have traded 2 bed rooms for one bed rooms. That is my option to trade up or down based on availability.

DVC members don't make the rules, but they throw them out like the Queen did when she said "let them eat cake". She was beheaded as best I remember. DVC doesn't come on TUG making these statements of superiority, they are made by DVC renters, thus the disdain by non DVC owners.

I have no problem with buying an upscale resort and only trading for a like resort. However being told that I couldn't trade for a particular resort I want to trade for based on DVC's impression of the resort is to much big brother for my liking. If a DVC renter wants to trade for a converted motel in Myrtle Beach, that should be their option. The DVC member has paid for the right to trade, use, or rent their points for x number of years so it should not be any of DVC's business what the member does with it.

Once again you like everyone to be correct, you need to try to do so yourself. I have more experience with WDW than most. I went to WDW the first year it opened (I was a freshman in high school), and I went every year following for 6 consecutive years. I have stayed in the Contemporary resort and at the Polynesian resort long before there was a DVC. Yes I hopped on the monorail every day and went to the park without ever getting in the car. I remember the coupon books that had A, B,C,D, and E tickets you got to ride with. You had to hand the coupon to the attendant to ride the ride, and rides weren't unlimited. I always ran out of E tickets too early and I always came home with some of the crappy tickets. I quit going when I got old enough to tell my parents that it was boring to me and my younger brother. Then I did my 5 or 6 years of required Disney trips with my own children until they got bored with Disney too. 

I will never go back to WDW unless it is to take grandkids one day. My family loves Busch Gardens and Sea World. We like Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios.We like 6 Flags and other theme parks with thrill rides, however there is not a ride Disney has that is exciting to us except for Tower of Terror. My kids loved Disney when they were small, but they stopped enjoying it during their teenage years. I stopped enjoying it years ago in my teenage years too, thus I have no desire to ever stay on Disney property.

To each his own but it isn't a "Small world after all". If you think outside the rodent box and vacation at places other than Orlando, you will see that it is a really big world after all.


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## Carl D

Nah........


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## tombo

Carl D said:
			
		

> ,
> 
> 
> Yikes... You make this sound like it's a negative. In reality, the vast majority think of this as a major plus. Sometime I think people go on this "renter rant" because they are envious we will not have to saddle our heirs with a piece of junk, broken down resort loaded with fees and special assessments.
> Yes, I think that's a very large plus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do think renting is a negative as opposed to owning a deeded week.
> 
> You assume that DVC will be valuable and maintained well for every year of your lease, but you assume that in the same time frame all owned resorts will become pieces of junk, broken down, and loaded with assessments.What an arrogant crock. Both resorts will be aging equally. Both owned and rented resorts will do the needed maintenance and upkeep.
> 
> But let's continue with your theory. Apparently the last year before your lease ends, Disney will let the resort go to pieces. Your big advantage is that at the end when the resort is old and worth nothing, your lease will end and you can walk away. If they do maintain your resort in top notch status each and every year, you or your kids will be walking away from a world class resort with nothing when your lease ends. If our deeded resorts are maintained well (like you assume DVC will be), our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will enjoy the resort in perpetuity.
> 
> Do you suppose that near the end of the majority of the leases that DVC might assess and renovate to make the properties more attractive because they are going to be up for rent again? Sales will shift into high gear and renters (DVC members) will pay to have the resorts ready to show to the new group of potential renters. DVC has huge incentives to have the resorts in tip top shape when large numbers of their leases are ending. Renters will potentially pay large assessments with only a few years to enjoy the renovations they paid for. At least as an owner if I pay an assessment I can continue to enjoy the updated resort as long as I want, not as long as the lease says I can.
> 
> The closer the lease comes to the end, the less it will be worth resale. Would you or anyone actually pay the same price for a lease with 5 years left on it as you would pay for a 30 year lease? If you die with only a few years left on your lease, you have sentenced your kids to paying MF's until the lease is up whether they want to or not because they will never be able to sell it.
> 
> These are some of the many reasons I feel that a lease property is not as good as a deeded property. But heck if you like leases better, make sure to never buy your home. When you die you would hate to leave that rundown decades old home as a burden to your children. Simply sign a 30 year lease on your residence and you will have what you love so much, a place you pay to maintain that you will never own. Leases are available on many things but I personally like to own what I buy whether it is a timeshare, a car, or my home.
Click to expand...


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## annenp

Amy said:


> No matter what the change I would not be affected as I would never use my DVC to exchange outside the system -- not cost effective.  We use or rent.  If DVC switches away from II completely, then I would feel bad for members who do want to use II.  I still don't think it is likely.  Things may have been different back 10 or 20 years ago for II, but now II has the market for the higher end hotel resort groups, so I just can't see DVC disaffiliating itself from II unless there is a move among the other high end hotel timeshare groups (to RCI as well).  I suspect DVC plans to either change the exchanging rules further or change the World Collection further (i.e., drop some existing II resorts and add some RCI resorts) and that may warrant the language Denise pointed out.  We'll see.



DVC is nice, no question, RCI does have Hilton Vacation Club which is as nice as the Marriott and Hyatt - especially in the Florida west coast area.


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## joestein

Carl D said:


> .
> 
> Regardless of what you believe about ROFR, what truly keeps the prices of DVC high is the unique distinction of having adjoining Disney accommodations.
> 
> 
> You get what you pay for.



Carl,

I have to disagree with you concerning the ROFR.  While I think that DVC would enjoy a higher resale value than some other timeshares without a ROFR, I don't think that resales would be nearly as high.  I think you see points at OKW in the 40s or 30s without ROFR.  Even at the other resorts, points would be in the 50s or 60s.

Joe


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## icydog

joestein said:


> Carl,
> 
> I have to disagree with you concerning the ROFR.  While I think that DVC would enjoy a higher resale value than some other timeshares without a ROFR, I don't think that resales would be nearly as high.  I think you see points at OKW in the 40s or 30s without ROFR.  Even at the other resorts, points would be in the 50s or 60s.
> 
> Joe



I'll take all the Beach Club Villa points you can give me for anything under $80 a point. I can turn them around in rentals in a minute.  You are forgetting the rental market for DVC.


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## icydog

Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of _renters. _ I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner. 
When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.


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## timeos2

*The magic may fade*



icydog said:


> Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of _renters. _ I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner.
> When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.



As a former DVC owner we know all about the "magic" of the DVC resorts. Unfortunately, for us, it ran out.  When we first got in we loved anything Disney but still found things like the parking arrangements frustrating, things like the "room delivery" worthless (we don't want to buy that many trinkets) and the food too costly for what you got on site. In DVC we didn't like the heavy handed management (back then it was a change from RCI to II - the very reverse of what triggered this thread but equally without "owner" input) When the free passes tied to the DVC units ran out we found far more to dislike about DVC than we enjoyed. Plus all of us found we preferred Universal, passes were (are) much cheaper there, so the DVC was sold (at a profit - that at least was good).  So the "magic" means nothing to us. The DVC units aren't as nice or as big (dollar for dollar) as many we can stay at outside and the surroundings, if we care to partake, are available to us without being DVC owners. Once you realize its all great marketing machine the magic fades. We now have no desire to do anything Disney. Never thought I'd say that 20 years ago but things do change.  

I'm almost sure we'll have at least some interest again when the grand kid(s) come along - who wouldn't want to see that wide eyed wonder of the first few visits by a kid?  It was a whole new place watching my daughter enjoy her first time in the Magic Kingdom years ago. We even enjoyed Mickey's House watching her.  But we sure don't have to stay on site to enjoy that. But today she wants season passes to Universal - The Mummy and the roller coasters (Hulk, Dueling Dragons) there are her favorite rides. She has zero interest in any Disney park ("too boring").  For now avoiding Disney is our happiest time in Orlando or California. No crowds, no money spent - its a perfect solution.


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## calgarygary

icydog said:


> Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of _renters. _ I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner.
> When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.



It would take a ton of Christmas ornaments and several "wild" parties to make up for the difference in cost that you paid for your DVC & those folks who bought into Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, etc. on the resale market.  Nice perks but you pay dearly for them - not even close to free.


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## Amy

> Originally Posted by *tombo
> *DVC owners seem to feel that what they have is gold, what II has is Gold, and what we own and trade for in RCI is crap. If just a couple of DVC owners made positive statements about RCI (and the RCI resorts we own and trade for) it might not appear to be such a slap in the face. After reading the posts from DVC and non DVC posters, it seems that we (RCI members) own and vacation in unacceptable accomodations. Until DVC joined RCI, I mistakenly thought I vacationed in great resorts.


I agree, and I feel really bad about this message repeated over and over by some DVC owners on TUG and the DIS boards in recent days.  There has been a tone of snobbery way beyond what I had expected in these discussions about RCI, with some comments downright rude to RCI resort owners in general.  But the sweeping overstatement works the other way too --  not all DVC owners believe what they have is gold or that all RCI resorts are unacceptable.  I don't, and I hope/believe there are others like me but they just don't bother to join these discussions.  

On another note, I do have to ask this:  Why do threads on TUG about DVC -- no matter the topic in the original post -- always end up being a huge debate about the pros and cons of DVC, whether it is "worth it" from eyes of DVC fans and critics, etc.?  This has been the case for as long as I remember, and I started reading/posting on TUG BBS about eight years ago.  It is one thing to state a factual criticism and move on; it is another to post repeatedly over and over, saying the same things, to convince DVC owners that they are wrong or foolish.   Clearly DVC owners find value in the ownership to make the higher ownership costs worthwhile, even if the the ownership is a long term RTU, the furnishings are not as luxurious than those in some other timeshares or the units of most resorts are not as large as many off-site timeshares.  We have owned HGVC (several), Marriott (several), and other timeshares over the years.  When we downsized we sold off all our Marriotts (partly because of the outrageous annual m/f increases -- way higher than what we've experience on the DVC side) and HGVCs, kept our best no-brand RCI trader, and increased our DVC holdings.  Those who don't find the other stuff DVC offers to be worth the price don't own DVC, and those who do value the extras do.   There isn't a right or wrong here -- just different preferences -- yet each time posts in these threads start to sound like challenges about who is right and wrong on the value of DVC.  Is this truly necessary?


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Don't Take It Seriously.*




Amy said:


> Is this truly necessary?


Not 1 bit necessary -- just fun. 

Plus talk is cheap.  (Even BBS talk.) 

Not only that, actions speak louder than words. 

Never-ending discussions along the lines of _My Dog's Better Than Your Dog_ have been going on a long time. 

Who knew the same goes for timeshares ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## JudyS

tombo said:


> DVC gives you a list of resorts you are allowed to trade in to? That is another reason I would never be a DVC renter. I would be mad if I was limited from trading for any resort I wanted that other II or RCI members could access. To have the arrogance as a company (or renter )to say that you hand pick the resorts that are worthy of DVC is a joke. You said it might sound elitist, and that lessor resorts aren't available to trade?  Arrogance is a better description than elitist. Those type of statements are why so many non DVC owners resent DVC renters.....


Both II and RCI have quality filters to some extent, and of course SFX has strict quality rules.  Most exchange companies will not let owners trade for something that is too far below the quality level of the resort that they deposited, because owners complain if they don't receive a resort of comparable quality.  Disney just makes their quality filter explicit, which I think is a good thing.  (There are lots of threads on the exchanging board where Tuggers try to puzzle out whether a quality filter, in either RCI or II, is keeping them from getting the trades they want.)  

I also think DVC is not the resort system that has the strictest quality filter -- they would be either the Four Seasons, or Franz Klammer Lodge.  I'd guess that some RCI resorts (Hilton, maybe) would be pretty strict about downwards trades, too. 

As for the Disney "Magic", I've stayed both onsite and off-site.  I have enjoyed both types of stays, and some of the non-DVC resorts in the Orlando area are lovely, but I find being onsite at the DVC to be worth a sizable premium.

I think RCI has some nice resorts, but the average level of quality is lower than in II.  However, what really bugs me about RCI is the poor customer service and high fees, not the varying quality of resorts. I also agree that you can't tell much about a person's status by the resorts they own.  I own DVC, and I was supposed to be staying at the Four Seasons Aviara today (I canceled due to illness), but I also own some real dumps!  So, does that make me high-class or low-class?  (Ooops -- come to think of it, I own only one high-end resort, but lots of dumpy ones!!! If you can judge a person by the quality of their timeshares, then I'm in trouble! :hysterical: )

Like Amy, I don't understand why some Tug members feel a need to keep lecturing DVC members over and over on how we are wasting our money by staying at Disney.  Different strokes for different folks!  I can't imagine paying the amount that some people pay to fly first class instead of coach, but if I had longer legs (and more money), maybe I'd feel differently!


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## bnoble

Most people in F on NW didn't pay for the tickets, except by logging too many miles with the airline.


----------



## JudyS

bnoble said:


> Most people in F on NW didn't pay for the tickets, except by logging too many miles with the airline.


True, but some did, and some others put a TON of time into getting those upgrades.  A lot of Flyertalkers are just obsessed with getting into that front cabin.

(For those who don't know, Flyertalk is like TUG for frequent flyers -- only more intense!)


----------



## icydog

timeos2 said:


> As a former DVC owner we know all about the "magic" of the DVC resorts. Unfortunately, for us, it ran out.  When we first got in we loved anything Disney but still found things like the parking arrangements frustrating, things like the "room delivery" worthless (we don't want to buy that many trinkets) and the food too costly for what you got on site. In DVC we didn't like the heavy handed management (back then it was a change from RCI to II - the very reverse of what triggered this thread but equally without "owner" input) When the free passes tied to the DVC units ran out we found far more to dislike about DVC than we enjoyed. Plus all of us found we preferred Universal, passes were (are) much cheaper there, so the DVC was sold (at a profit - that at least was good).  So the "magic" means nothing to us. The DVC units aren't as nice or as big (dollar for dollar) as many we can stay at outside and the surroundings, if we care to partake, are available to us without being DVC owners. Once you realize its all great marketing machine the magic fades. We now have no desire to do anything Disney. Never thought I'd say that 20 years ago but things do change.
> 
> I'm almost sure we'll have at least some interest again when the grand kid(s) come along - who wouldn't want to see that wide eyed wonder of the first few visits by a kid?  It was a whole new place watching my daughter enjoy her first time in the Magic Kingdom years ago. We even enjoyed Mickey's House watching her.  But we sure don't have to stay on site to enjoy that. But today she wants season passes to Universal - The Mummy and the roller coasters (Hulk, Dueling Dragons) there are her favorite rides. She has zero interest in any Disney park ("too boring").  For now avoiding Disney is our happiest time in Orlando or California. No crowds, no money spent - its a perfect solution.



John, this is one of the only posts of yours about DVC that wasn't a slam against DVC. You made your argument well and you stated why DVC doesn't work for you, and your family, any longer. You never denigrated my interest in all things Mouse-worthy, and for that, I thank you.


----------



## icydog

JudyS said:


> Both II and RCI have quality filters to some extent, and of course SFX has strict quality rules.  Most exchange companies will not let owners trade for something that is too far below the quality level of the resort that they deposited, because owners complain if they don't receive a resort of comparable quality.  Disney just makes their quality filter explicit, which I think is a good thing.  (There are lots of threads on the exchanging board where Tuggers try to puzzle out whether a quality filter, in either RCI or II, is keeping them from getting the trades they want.)
> 
> I also think DVC is not the resort system that has the strictest quality filter -- they would be either the Four Seasons, or Franz Klammer Lodge.  I'd guess that some RCI resorts (Hilton, maybe) would be pretty strict about downwards trades, too.
> 
> As for the Disney "Magic", I've stayed both onsite and off-site.  I have enjoyed both types of stays, and some of the non-DVC resorts in the Orlando area are lovely, but I find being onsite at the DVC to be worth a sizable premium.
> 
> *I think RCI has some nice resorts, but the average level of quality is lower than in II. * However, what really bugs me about RCI is the poor customer service and high fees, not the varying quality of resorts. I also agree that you can't tell much about a person's status by the resorts they own.  I own DVC, and I was supposed to be staying at the Four Seasons Aviara today (I canceled due to illness), but I also own some real dumps!  So, does that make me high-class or low-class?  (Ooops -- come to think of it, I own only one high-end resort, but lots of dumpy ones!!! If you can judge a person by the quality of their timeshares, then I'm in trouble! :hysterical: )
> 
> Like Amy, I don't understand why some Tug members feel a need to keep lecturing DVC members over and over on how we are wasting our money by staying at Disney.  Different strokes for different folks!  I can't imagine paying the amount that some people pay to fly first class instead of coach, but if I had longer legs (and more money), maybe I'd feel differently!




Judy, I agree with almost everything you said. I can't understand why a post  about DVC and RCI has denigrated to _I love DVC vs. I hate DVC_ 
again. 

I too have many other timeshares. I have some dog traders in RCI and a couple of good traders as well. I have excellent II traders. I loved being able to swap my II traders for DVC. I've done it three times now, with one more in the works for the Boardwalk Villas in February. I'll miss those trades. Perhaps that was why I was so mad in the first place. I'll never get those trades again. None of my RCI weeks will be good enough to trade with DVC and I don't have an RCI points account. So maybe in the initial stages it was sour grapes that made me so angry. 

The fact is, I will never, ever, trade out of DVC. The points are too valuable. If I want to go somewhere other than DVC I will continue to rent my points to cover the costs of the other vacation. But that's my modus operandi and not anyone else's. 

I have to agree with your assessment of RCI and II resorts. We have stayed in some glorious RCI resorts, the houses at Summer Bay comes to mind, but none compare to DVC's on site presence. But then again, none of the II resorts can compare to the onsite experience either. We loved the Vistana Villages and HGVC near Sea World plus all the Orlando Marriotts but none compare to DVC. At least for us. When we are off site we rarely go into the parks, we are season pass owners, and we make use of the facilities at the resort almost exclusively. Even when we are staying at a DVC property we don't go into the parks much unless we have dinner reservations or if we have company. 

I am going to miss the association with II. Will I die from the new arrangement with RCI? No I  won't, but I won't be going to Disney World as much as we do now. We exchanged in three times this year already. We have one more exchange to go plus I am using our Animal Kingdom Villa points for a 6 night stay in May with family. Using my points alone will be a big loss for me. I usually rent my points out and go to WDW on exchanges. Now I'll be forced to choose. This has been a soul searching experience for me. Difficult in the pocketbook-- and the psyche.


----------



## AwayWeGo

*Even Though A Slam Is Well Deserved . . .*




icydog said:


> John, this is one of the only posts of yours about DVC that wasn't a slam against DVC.


*. . .* for that $95 nuisance fee DVC charges to exchange guests that owners & renters don't pay.  Sheesh. 

Do you suppose RCI will let'm get away with that once DVC completes the switch from I-I ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bnoble

> Do you suppose RCI will let'm get away with that once DVC completes the switch from I-I ?



Yes.  They let Manhattan Club do it.  I'll eat my mouse ears if DVC doesn't keep the nuisance fee in RCI.



> I loved being able to swap my II traders for DVC. ... The fact is, I will never, ever, trade out of DVC.


This is one of the few times I've seen someone come out and say what I've suspected all along.  My sense has been DVC Members who only think about exchanging out are a little disappointed, but not upset, because a well-informed DVC Member would rarely trade out.  Most of them would be better off renting their points, and using the proceeds to rent the vacation lodging of their choosing.  

My sense has been that most of the people who were really upset were those who had become accustomed to using their el-cheapo II weeks (and the ACs they generate) to get DVC lodging for dimes on the dollar.  Some of these people were Members stretching their points.  Others were folks like me who would never spend the kind of money it takes to own there, but enjoy staying there nevertheless.

For the average DVC Member, this is practically a non-event.  For those who exchange in, Member or not, well---this is why conventional wisdom is never buy to trade, because the trading game is always changing.


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## AwayWeGo

*Why The Slam Is So Well Deserved.*




bnoble said:


> They let Manhattan Club do it.  I'll eat my mouse ears if DVC doesn't keep the nuisance fee in RCI.


It's not just the money -- $95, which is nothing to sneeze at -- but it's mainly the crass classlessness of treating exchange guests at 2nd class citz.

That's a move many would consider typical of (say) WestGate, but way out of character for a class upscale enterprise. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bnoble

Like I said, RCI allows Manhattan Club to do it---_only_ RCI inbounds are charged the hospitality fee.  Not guests of owners.  Not those coming in via SFX.  RCI only.

I get the "exchange ought to be an exchange" argument and agree with it in principle.  But, at the end of the day, my principles don't rule---the developers' and exchange companies' rules rule.  So, I'm a pragmatist: what's it cost me to stay there, and am I willing to pay it?  So far, the answer to the first question is <mumble>, and the answer to the second question is "yes".

Others may choose to eliminate from exchange consideration those resorts that charge such exchange-only nuisance fees out of a stronger adherence to their inner Jiminy Cricket.  They are better (wo)men than I.


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## James1975NY

Vacation Ownership is for fun and enjoying vacations with family, loved ones and friends alike. Both exchange companies will provide a wealth of vacation options and will require the owner to be proactive with planning and understanding the resorts to choose from when executing an exchange.

I have been doing resales for a while now and after working directly for a developer, I cannot believe the prices that are available to buyers. In any case, my sister purchase a DVC timeshare direct from them and I have no doubt they will enjoy it for years to come (my sisters and I grew up on it too!).

Now knowing what she could have purchased on the resale market pricewise, I do not dare tell her as I feel I would devalue what she loves and that is not fair. The bottom line is that if you are going to use it, maximize it and enjoy the vacations you go on, it is worth it. 

Change typically creates some concern and frustration especially when you do not have a say in the matter. 

Hang in there and enjoy your vacations!


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## littlestar

The only way I would have traded my DVC points in II would have been if we were trying for a large group trip to say Hawaii and needed another Marriott or Westin week. I would be very picky about trading those DVC points because I know what they can be rented for.

I was really surprised that DVC didn't dual affiliate with both exchange companies to tell you the truth. I had traded into DVC through Interval, but my Marriott stays in Orlando outnumbered my DVC trades more than 2 to 1. Now, if Marriott left II, this would be one sad, sad girl.


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## timeos2

*Ancient history but important none the less*



bnoble said:


> Like I said, RCI allows Manhattan Club to do it---_only_ RCI inbounds are charged the hospitality fee.  Not guests of owners.  Not those coming in via SFX.  RCI only.
> 
> I get the "exchange ought to be an exchange" argument and agree with it in principle.  But, at the end of the day, my principles don't rule---the developers' and exchange companies' rules rule.  So, I'm a pragmatist: what's it cost me to stay there, and am I willing to pay it?  So far, the answer to the first question is <mumble>, and the answer to the second question is "yes".
> 
> Others may choose to eliminate from exchange consideration those resorts that charge such exchange-only nuisance fees out of a stronger adherence to their inner Jiminy Cricket.  They are better (wo)men than I.



You've probably seen it before but I'll repaeat that at least part of the original split between RCI & DVC was over that very fee. RCI, as was writing in their contracts with resorts at the time, prohibited it. So did II. But II capitulated to DVC, most likely to get them to switch, and OK'd it with a modified agreement.  Nice way to protect members, huh?  

But as you point out since then RCI also gave in to MC and allowed them to tack on an unfair fee to exchange guests only. So the dike broke nearly 10 years later. Now we just have to get every RCI/II resort that sees an incoming DVC or MC Club owner to tack on $95 as "exchange guest services".  THEN you'll hear howling.  Especially when the owners realize THEY don't get the fee - DVC/MC pockets it!  

And of course rate both systems poorly on your rating cards for any tiny thing you may find, as with that extra fee you should be getting 110% perfection on every trip.  I see a whole lot of 1's / dissatisfied on those rating cards. And they deserve it.


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## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> You've probably seen it before but I'll repaeat that at least part of the original split between RCI & DVC was over that very fee.


I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it has been disputed by reputable people here on TUG... I believe it was Dean. 
Whoever it was did have a factual basis for their view.


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## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> And of course rate both systems poorly on your rating cards for any tiny thing you may find, as with that extra fee you should be getting 110% perfection on every trip.  I see a whole lot of 1's / dissatisfied on those rating cards. And they deserve it.


You should be ashamed of yourself. 
First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.

Second, should I go around the web advocating we demand "110% perfection" from CP, otherwise our goal should be to have their Silver status removed??

Slimy.. at best.


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## Carl D

Amy said:


> I agree, and I feel really bad about this message repeated over and over by some DVC owners on TUG and the DIS boards in recent days.  There has been a tone of snobbery way beyond what I had expected in these discussions about RCI, with some comments downright rude to RCI resort owners in general.  But the sweeping overstatement works the other way too --  not all DVC owners believe what they have is gold or that all RCI resorts are unacceptable.  I don't, and I hope/believe there are others like me but they just don't bother to join these discussions.
> 
> On another note, I do have to ask this:  Why do threads on TUG about DVC -- no matter the topic in the original post -- always end up being a huge debate about the pros and cons of DVC, whether it is "worth it" from eyes of DVC fans and critics, etc.?  This has been the case for as long as I remember, and I started reading/posting on TUG BBS about eight years ago.  It is one thing to state a factual criticism and move on; it is another to post repeatedly over and over, saying the same things, to convince DVC owners that they are wrong or foolish.   Clearly DVC owners find value in the ownership to make the higher ownership costs worthwhile, even if the the ownership is a long term RTU, the furnishings are not as luxurious than those in some other timeshares or the units of most resorts are not as large as many off-site timeshares.  We have owned HGVC (several), Marriott (several), and other timeshares over the years.  When we downsized we sold off all our Marriotts (partly because of the outrageous annual m/f increases -- way higher than what we've experience on the DVC side) and HGVCs, kept our best no-brand RCI trader, and increased our DVC holdings.  Those who don't find the other stuff DVC offers to be worth the price don't own DVC, and those who do value the extras do.   There isn't a right or wrong here -- just different preferences -- yet each time posts in these threads start to sound like challenges about who is right and wrong on the value of DVC.  Is this truly necessary?


I think you will find the offenses are one sided. For the most part, DVC Members are on the defensive. 

I have never seen an attack on a TUG Member for NOT being a DVC Member.


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## timeos2

*No one was inside but we have the chaeck that seemed to prove it*



Carl D said:


> I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it has been disputed by reputable people here on TUG... I believe it was Dean.
> Whoever it was did have a factual basis for their view.



Well, mine was from personal experience (as most of my posts tend to be). In oe of my last years of DVC ownership we had a situation that involved RCI and a trade into DVC.  When we arrived we were told we owed the $95 penalty (of course they didn't call it that and danced around the reason for it - the bottom line was it was to pay for transportation. Pointing out that it was FREE to anyone didn't bring anything but a shoulder shrug in reply). 

So to avoid anymore of a scene we reluctantly paid the fee BUT immediately contacted RCI and complained. They were shocked - basically told us "it cannot be done - it's in our agreement".  They even gave us a fax copy of the exact wording prohibiting such fees. 

About three weeks later we got a check for $95 from DVC - no apology or explanation just a check with REFUND as the reason. Not too long after that we heard about the change to II, the permanent penalty fee and we fortunately sold our rental agreement to another buyer.  How many others got the mysterious refund I can't say but I'll bet it was more than a few if they complained. It was spelled out in black and white in an agreement they (and every other RCI resort at that time) signed that it wasn't allowed. A true Wastegate move as Alan stated. Below DVC I would have hoped but that was just another sign that they were out for money first and last. 

So I cannot prove it was a catalyst but the timing sure seems right. As is the change back now that RCI has compromised what few principals they had left to allow it.  Buyer beware indeed.


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## Carl D

calgarygary said:


> It would take a ton of Christmas ornaments and several "wild" parties to make up for the difference in cost that you paid for your DVC & those folks who bought into Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, etc. on the resale market.  Nice perks but you pay dearly for them - not even close to free.


Nah... Only speaking for myself, but the perks have very little to do with my affection for DVC.

It's the theming, and to a lessor extent being all encompassed by Disney. (This includes the customer service.)
I love the detailed theming, and being transported to another place.. If people here have never visited the Wilderness Lodge or the Animal Kingdom, you may not understand what I'm saying.
For those that have,,, well,,, you understand.


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## AwayWeGo

*Who Knew ?*




Carl D said:


> First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.


_Whoa !_ 

I've been an owner (resale) at various Cypress Pointe phases since 2002 & never once had any idea during any of the years since that any form of timeshare competition was going on. 

You know -- no scoreboards, no team cheers, no uniforms, no league standings, no won-lost records, none of that stuff. 

Live & learn, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## calgarygary

Carl D said:


> Nah... Only speaking for myself, but the perks have very little to do with my affection for DVC.
> 
> It's the theming, and to a lessor extent being all encompassed by Disney. (This includes the customer service.)
> I love the detailed theming, and being transported to another place.. If people here have never visited the Wilderness Lodge or the Animal Kingdom, you may not understand what I'm saying.
> For those that have,,, well,,, you understand.



We have stayed at AKL twice but not the villas, and WL is only an imitation of the real thing that we live so close to.  I do understand exactly where you are coming from, but as much as I love AKL, I just do not think it is worth the cost. I was just correcting the suggestion that those perks are free.


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## timeos2

*A score is tied to the whole experience - including fees*



Carl D said:


> You should be ashamed of yourself.
> First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.
> 
> Second, should I go around the web advocating we demand "110% perfection" from CP, otherwise our goal should be to have their Silver status removed??
> 
> Slimy.. at best.



When I stayed at the Manhattan Club - no where near Orlando, in NYC - and they demanded a a similar unfair fee I suddenly found all sorts of issues I had overlooked in the past. My usually 4 & 5 star ratings dropped to 2's and 3's at best as when I get hit for extra fees they had better be sure things are flawless. They were far from it. And I guess I wasn't alone as they lost their Gold Crown.

 IF I ever traded in again to DVC I'd have the same approach - as should anyone stung with such an unfair cost. If I found everything that paid for perfect they'd get maybe a 4 - one problem and a well deserved 2 or 1 is in the works.  If CPR charged for parking or nicked guests for Internet but owners got it free I'd fully expect our ratings to go down - why shouldn't they? The owners would be paying for it and giving it up in trade - the exchange guest should get treated like the owner they replaced not an interloper. As it should be. And was until a group started the fee trend. 

As for "competing" I don't think so. Two entirely different approaches and most likely audiences for the two resorts. I doubt DVC cares what I think and I know CPR could care less what DVC does. I know I have my favorites and you have yours but being an owner (or even President of the HOA) doesn't blind me to problems at any resort. Heck - we were so bad in 2001 that we nearly lost all rankings. I was among the first to raise holy heck and demand changes. Look at my posts regarding Wastegate. I've owned there nearly as long as CPR but my feelings about it have changed dramatically over the years, thanks to mismanagement. Just as they did for DVC & now one of my absolute former favorites - the Manhattan Club. Treat owners and or guests poorly - and that includes hitting them with undeserved fees - and you take a deserved hit in the scores. They want good scores then fix the problems.


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## JudyS

bnoble said:


> ....
> This is one of the few times I've seen someone come out and say what I've suspected all along.  My sense has been DVC Members who only think about exchanging out are a little disappointed, but not upset, because a well-informed DVC Member would rarely trade out.  Most of them would be better off renting their points, and using the proceeds to rent the vacation lodging of their choosing.....


Well, in my case, I had actually been gearing up to deposit some DVC points into II, even though I generally consider this a terrible deal.  The reason was that I had to cancel a Four Seasons Aviara week due to illness and also had some DVC points that I couldn't use for the same reason. (The points were set to expire in about 90 days, which makes them very hard to rent.) I was seriously bummed about losing the Four Seasons week, and was looking for the easiest way to use up the DVC points, get a substitute Four Seasons week for next fall, and just go back to  bed.  It annoyed me that Disney took away our ability to deposit DVC points for later trades (there is currently no way to do that) with no notice.  Plus, RCI's poor customer service irks me, and I didn't like to see Disney affiliating with them. 

For me, I think the biggest thing about Disney leaving II was that it drove home how little control DVC members really have over their ownerships (that is, none).  It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members.   (In general, I won't buy at resorts that are developer-controlled.  I made an exception for Disney because I felt that Disney's desire to protect its reputation gave some protection to owners, and I still largely feel that way.) 

It is true that I was also bummed about losing the easy trades into DVC.  However, I expect that -- _as long as RCI really makes the DVC weeks available for trading, rather than renting them_ -- I will be able to trade into Disney via RCI.  Marylyn, if you really want to trade into DVC, you can do it, too.  RCI Points can be purchased quite cheaply these days, as can some RCI tiger traders.

Actually, once we figure out what will trade for DVC in RCI, there may be opportunities for TUG members to do permanent swaps of ownerships so that folks that want DVC get an RCI trader that "sees" DVC., and people who don't care about Disney get a good II trader.

About John, Cypress Pointe, and DVC -- I've never thought John's animosity to DVC had anything to do with his role at Cypress Pointe. (I've assumed it probably had more to do with Michael Eisner's changes to WDW, actually.  A lot of people haven't been happy with how Disney changed under Eisner, although most people aren't as adamant about it.)


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## Carl D

JudyS said:


> About John, Cypress Pointe, and DVC -- I've never thought John's animosity to DVC had anything to do with his role at Cypress Pointe. (I've assumed it probably had more to do with Michael Eisner's changes to WDW, actually.  A lot of people haven't been happy with how Disney changed under Eisner, although most people aren't as adamant about it.)


The great Eisner debate is not only worthy of it's own thread, but perhaps it's own entire message board.


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## Carl D

JudyS said:


> It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members.


Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales. 
If they didn't care about Members, or they believed they have an inferior trading company, it would make that more difficult.


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## JudyS

Carl D said:


> The great Eisner debate is not only worthy of it's own thread, but perhaps it's own entire message board.


Or *several *message boards!  

I'm not trying to start an Eisner debate, just pointing out that there are many plausible reasons why John might be unhappy with Disney, rather than having a vested interest due to Cypress Pointe. 



Carl D said:


> Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales.
> If they didn't care about Members, or they believed they have an inferior trading company, it would make that more difficult.


My concern is that the move to RCI may be for marketing reasons, especially the possibility of having DVC be 1-in-4 in RCI.  If DVC is looking to bring in new sales prospects at the expense of their current members, that would be a very bad sign.  I do think that Disney will still be much more concerned about customer satisfaction than the typical timeshare development company is, but it would be a big step in that direction.


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## timeos2

JudyS said:


> For me, I think the biggest thing about Disney leaving II was that it drove home how little control DVC members really have over their ownerships (that is, none).  It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members.   (In general, I won't buy at resorts that are developer-controlled.  I made an exception for Disney because I felt that Disney's desire to protect its reputation gave some protection to owners, and I still largely feel that way.)



Exactly what turned us off about DVC. It took some Draconian actions by DVC to do it, but we figured out it was all about THEM not the buyers. The reputation is from the Walt days - it has been decades since the corporation put the owner/guest first. It's all about money now.


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## bnoble

Shooot---you think DVC is a ham-handed landlord, you should try owning Wyndham!

(PS: That whole ol' Uncle Walt thing?  An act.  He was a pretty darn shrewd businessman, even though his brother gets all the "credit" (or blame) for being "the money guy."  I recommend reading Neal Gabler's excellent biography for a good picture.)


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## PigsDad

Carl D said:


> Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales.
> If they didn't care about Members, *or they believed they have an inferior trading company*, it would make that more difficult.


I think the RCI move could definitely help them in the sales department.  The average potentiel buyer doesn't know that II has a reputation for a larger percentage of higher-end timeshare compared to RCI.  When the salesperson is sitting down w/ that couple, the salesperson can now say they can exchange there DVC points for more that 15,000 properties, whereas if they bought the Marriott, they could only exchange for 5,000 properties (I have no idea about the actual numbers).

That would be a great selling tool, IMO.

Kurt


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## rsackett

PigsDad said:


> .....When the salesperson is sitting down w/ that couple, the salesperson can now say they can exchange there DVC points for more that 15,000 properties, whereas if they bought the Marriott, they could only exchange for 5,000 properties (I have no idea about the actual numbers)....
> Kurt



I have no dog in this fight.  I am disappointed that I will no longer be able to trade into DVC.

This is a question for the DVC owners.  When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into.  Is this correct?  Was that the same in the old days of RCI trading?  Do you have any idea if that will open up for you with RCI?  Maybe DVC can take advantage of the RCI points system so your DVC points can be converted to RCI points and open up many more resorts to you.  It could be a plus??? -- no?

Ray


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## Carl D

timeos2 said:


> Exactly what turned us off about DVC. It took some Draconian actions by DVC to do it, but we figured out it was all about THEM not the buyers. The reputation is from the Walt days - it has been decades since the corporation put the owner/guest first. It's all about money now.


I just gotta know what the "Draconian" actions were. That may truly provide some insight into your hatred.

The rest of your statement is debatable.


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## Carl D

rsackett said:


> I have no dog in this fight.  I am disappointed that I will no longer be able to trade into DVC.
> 
> This is a question for the DVC owners.  When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into.  Is this correct?  Was that the same in the old days of RCI trading?  Do you have any idea if that will open up for you with RCI?  Maybe DVC can take advantage of the RCI points system so your DVC points can be converted to RCI points and open up many more resorts to you.  It could be a plus??? -- no?
> 
> Ray


-- Yes, DVC limited the resorts in II that we could trade into. There was roughly 500 from which to choose.

-- I don't know about when DVC was initially with RCI, as that was before I was a DVC Member.

-- As far as I know the details of the new DVC/RCI agreement have not yet been released.

Like you, this makes absolutely no difference to me. I never have, nor do I ever intend to trade DVC.


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## Werner Weiss

rsackett said:


> When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into.  Is this correct?


DVC has not yet published the details of the RCI version of the DVC World Passport Collection. The note to DVC members included the following:

While Members will continue to choose from more than 500 destinations across six continents and 25 countries, the enhanced Member Getaways program will offer a significantly broader range of resort experiences, length-of-stay options (including more nightly exchanges) and more.​
In other words, DVC will offer a subset or RCI resorts, just as they did with II -- and just as they originally did with RCI back when RCI was DC's initial exchange company.

Also, DVC members should have more choices that don't involve full weeks, which suggests some sort of tie-in to the RCI Points programs (probably an indirect tie-in in which DVC members deal with DVC points, not actual RCI points).

I don't expect DVC to release the details until the beginning of 2009.

On the other side of equation, all DVC resorts should be available through RCI at some point.

The majority of the weeks that appeared on the II website have been at Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. These are the largest DVC resorts. But deposits are not limited to these resorts.

DVC Member Services picks the weeks to be deposited. I've seen weeks sitting in II inventory for 5 on-site resorts -- Old Key West, BoardWalk Villas, Beach Club Villas, Villas at Wilderness Lodge, Saratoga Springs -- and the 2 other resorts -- Vero Beach, Hilton Head Island. So these should all be in RCI next year.

Animal Kingdom Villas (the main part of which is still under construction) is in next year's II directory, but was not yet active in II. It will undoubtedly become available in RCI.

DVC is building resorts at the Contemporary Resort (Bay Lake Tower), Disneyland Resort (Grand Californian), and Ko Olina on Oahu. These should all be in RCI at some point.


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## ral

*DVC and RCI*

Looks like DVC is going to be associated with RCI for its Member Getaways starting January 1, 2009. Anybody else familiar with this information? Does this mean that DVC is discontinuing its relationship with II?


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## Jbart74

See this recent and HOT thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86250&highlight=rci


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## ral

*Thanks for the thread.*



Jbart74 said:


> See this recent and HOT thread:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86250&highlight=rci



Sorry I didn't see it myself. I appreciate your providing me with this informative thread.


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## Jbart74

Glad to help.

Happy hunting with RCI.  I am one of those who likes RCI.  Always get what I want, when I want it.  But I like things like Full Kitchens and less young kids. I am less concerned with crafting, yoga, and other organized activities.  I like to make my own vacations, on my terms.  Here's hoping you find what you desire as well!


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## AwayWeGo

*Keep It Moving & Keep Owners Guessing.*




Eli Mairs said:


> I can't remember when they dumped RCI in favor of II, but I believe that it was within the first few years. I guess that they've come full circle.


Perhaps there is some Grand Plan in place that involves cyclical switching back & forth between I-I & RCI periodically. 

Just when owners get accustomed to RCI, then -- _WHAP !_ -- DVC switches over to I-I. 

After a few years, when owners are familiar with the workings & features of I-I, then -- _BOOM !_ -- time to switch back to RCI. 

And so on & so forth right on down the line, right up to final expiration of those 42-year RTUs. 

That'll work to keep'm off-balance, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## bnoble

Why not?  Smart consumers do this with competing companies all the time---if the cable company will give you a deal for a year, with a 2-year commitment, great!  When the 2 years is up, DirecTV will give you a deal for six months with a 2-year commitment, so you may as well switch.  Or, you could call the cable co. and tell them you'll walk unless they match.

All part of "good business."


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## rsackett

timeos2 said:


> .... RCI and a trade into DVC.  When we arrived we were told we owed the $95 penalty (of course they didn't call it that and danced around the reason for it - the bottom line was it was to pay for transportation. Pointing out that it was FREE to anyone didn't bring anything but a shoulder shrug in reply). .....



So what do you think of RCI now that tey are alowing the $95 fee?

Ray


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## blumga

*DVC Member re: RCI Change*



Carl D said:


> I think you should reread the first 3 or 4 pages.
> I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them.
> -- I see one or two DVC Members expressing displeasure with the move, which is a legitimate thing to post about.
> -- I see several *non* DVC Members upset because they can no longer trade into DVC.
> -- I see several DVC Members making a generic comment about the move, without showing displeasure.
> 
> -- I see zero whining.
> 
> I may still be missing something, so perhaps you can repost the the whining posts??



I'm a DVC member who's quite annoyed at the Interval to RCI changeover. To clarify, the RCI resorts available to DVC members are far fewer that those offered by RCI at their web site. Sadly, the search facility and screen appearences are identical but we get far fewer search results. We get no resorts in Italy, none in China and in general, the choices are pathetically limited. RCI has some great resorts, but we DVC members can't choose them. I assure you that any DVC member who takes the time to review the list will be very disappointed.


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