# [ 2014 ] Parents passed away



## Fish66 (Oct 27, 2014)

So my parents purchased three timeshares. Mom just passed away and me and my siblings are stuck with these timeshares none of us want or really can afford. Can we just bury them with mom? We didn't sign up for them at all.


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## Passepartout (Oct 27, 2014)

Please accept our condolences for your loss. 

Short answer. No one HAS to accept any inheritance. If no one wants the timeshares, the executor of the parents' estate should send copies of the death certificate(s) of those named on the deed(s) to the resorts- or their management companies and state that there are no heirs who want these properties. Offer to quit-claim them back if that's how they want to proceed.

Just make clear that the estate has no funds available to pay for any ongoing expenses related to these timeshares.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Oct 27, 2014)

You are NOT stuck with them - contact the attorney and tell them you want to file the paperwork with the court to refuse the inheritance.  This must be done before the deeds are transferred to you.  Once you allow them to be transferred to your name, you have a much bigger problem.


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## Fish66 (Oct 27, 2014)

*Awesome!*

So there's no fee for quit-claim?


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## DeniseM (Oct 27, 2014)

Fish66 said:


> So there's no fee for quit-claim?



A quit-claim can be refused by the resort - you cannot FORCE them to take it back by deeding it to them.  You need to file the paperwork to refuse the inheritance with the court to make it final and legal.


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## Passepartout (Oct 27, 2014)

Fish66 said:


> So there's no fee for quit-claim?



It would depend on how much of a DIY person you are. Once you get the authorization that the resort will accept a deed-back (you can't just produce a quit-claim and present it to them), many people simply copy the deed, change the names of the grantor/grantee, and send it to the county for registration. There are also people here on TUG who do transfers for a couple hundred $$.

So, it might not be free, but should be a lot less than being saddled with timeshares you don't want.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Oct 27, 2014)

This is the sticking point:  "Once you get the authorization that the resort will accept a deed-back (you can't just produce a quit-claim and present it to them),"

The resort would much rather have you as a new paying owner, than to take the timeshare back, so it is not easy to get them to accept a deed back.

However, if you legally refuse the inheritance, you don't need the resort's permission.  It basically forces the resort to take it back, if the heir's refuse it.  The resort would rather take it back, than have it sitting in "limbo."


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 27, 2014)

Fish,
  Sorry about your loss. I've been there.

  Did your parents leave a will ?  

  I advise you to contact an attorney for guidance. If you cannot afford one, please call a Law Clinic center or Legal Aide center.


  You do not have to inherit anything. You can disclaim an inheritance or bequest.

  Do take Denise's suggestion of contacting the resort first. 


  Good luck.


-


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## DeniseM (Oct 27, 2014)

Give Jim credit for that!  

Beaglemom3 - what is the name of the "thingy" one files to refuse an inheritance?


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 27, 2014)

A disclaimer or inheritance disclaimer, but disclaimer is the most used. 

I'd make sure that there is or isn't a will first. It might have been left to someone who wanted it or someone she didn't like. 

Whoopsie, yes, Jim, too  ! 

ETA: Check with your state laws about disclaimers. Better yet, contact an attorney who can guide you correctly. Like plumbing or wiring, the law isn't for D-I-Y ers.




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## Fish66 (Oct 27, 2014)

there's a will but it's not specifically referred to in the will. Lawyer is a good thing....this time


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## Beaglemom3 (Oct 27, 2014)

Fish66 said:


> there's a will but it's not specifically referred to in the will. Lawyer is a good thing....this time



Yep, it's time........

  Here is another thread on this:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149330

Better:   http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184162&highlight=bequest+disclaim

  You'll want an attorney after reading through these..................

-


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## Fish66 (Oct 27, 2014)

Thank you all for your advice!


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## BocaBoy (Oct 30, 2014)

You can refuse the inheritance of the timeshare, but the estate still owns it and the estate (not the heirs) is liable for ongoing maintenance fees until it gets rid of it.  The estate cannot simply distribute its assets and stiff its creditors.  So don't expect to get a full payout of the other assets in the estate while the estate still has liabilities from the timeshare.


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## EIDVA (Oct 30, 2014)

For those of us with timeshares, would it work to put them in the will and make the bequest back to the resort?


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2014)

EIDVA said:


> For those of us with timeshares, would it work to put them in the will and make the bequest back to the resort?



This is the same as deeding it back - it may or may not work, because the resort does not have to accept the inheritance, it could go back to the estate, and then the heirs would have to "decline" the inheritance.  See the discussion above.


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## napfabob (Oct 30, 2014)

*Unwanted Time Shares*

The law allows an individual beneficiary to "disclaim" an asset being left to them under the terms of a will or trust.  Normally, unless specifically stated in the will or trust to the contrary, the devise then passes to the next person in line assuming the original beneficiary had died. (that is the assumption made).  As a  non-attorney, but experienced estate planner, this is an issue that has recently been brought up for discussion among myself and some pretty bright estate planning attorneys. If we had the chance to plan this "before" the death of the owner, we would isolate the timeshare in the estate as the "Only" asset and have all other asset titled in a Revocable Trust prior to the death of the time share owner.  The will would then leave the time share to the children and after death, the owners (children) would all "disclaim" the time share.  At this point, the executor would then advise the probate court that no one took the timeshare and that there is no money "in the probate estate" to pay fees of any kind, including transfer fees.  The executor would then advise the management company of the situation and basically tell them that the estate is deadlocked and there is no owner to take the time share nor monies to pay any fee.  Our conclusion (our best guess) was that if the management company continues to refused to take back the time share, then simply leave the estate open forever (No additional probate fees to the best of my knowledge)  At some point, it was our collective opinion that the management company would give in if for no other reason then to try to resell the unit.
In the current situation, be careful not to get caught lying to the management company or the court that there is "No money to pay the fees' especially if other funds have been distributed to the beneficiaries that "could have been used" to pay the fees.
Again, I am not an attorney and you could discuss this with your attorney as a possible option.  Good luck


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2014)

This has been discussed before, and attorneys experienced with TS's have opined that the estate only has to pay the CURRENT maintenance fee bill(s) to meet the letter of the law, and then the estate can be distributed to the heirs - they are not obligated to pay the MF for all eternity.


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## bogey21 (Oct 30, 2014)

Beneficiaries need to check and find out if they have to file the disclaimer within so many days of the death.  This may not be so, but it is best to find out and be dealing with a full deck.

George


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## Rent_Share (Oct 30, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> You can refuse the inheritance of the timeshare, but the estate still owns it and the estate (not the heirs) is liable for ongoing maintenance fees until it gets rid of it. The estate cannot simply distribute its assets and stiff its creditors. So don't expect to get a full payout of the other assets in the estate while the estate still has liabilities from the timeshare.


 
 The only liability the estate has is the current year (or any delinquent) maintenance fee, yes the estate owes those, but the estate can close and distribute the remaining assets as long as the current year's fees are paid.

http://www.timesharetrap.com/how-to-refuse-a-timeshare-inheritance.html


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## CO skier (Oct 30, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> This has been discussed before, and attorneys experienced with TS's have opined that the estate only has to pay the CURRENT maintenance fee bill(s) to meet the letter of the law, and then the estate can be distributed to the heirs - they are not obligated to pay the MF for all eternity.



The net effect, then, for the other owners at the timeshare is the same as a foreclosure or Viking Ship transfer; the owners pick up the tab through higher maintenance fees.

One of the big selling points at the timeshare presentation is, "You can pass it on to your heirs."   Many heirs do not want a timeshare, so the timeshare HOAs will have to find some way to resell these abandoned weeks.

The points-based timeshares can just resell the points.  This will be a challenge, though, for smaller, fixed-week timeshares where the original developer is no longer in the picture.


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## DeniseM (Oct 30, 2014)

Don't get me wrong - I don't advocate dumping your timeshares on your kids.  It is far better to implement an exit plan while you are still breathing.  

My main purpose is to counter the "Timeshare Rescue" companies who all swear that your children will be forced to inherit your unwanted timeshares, so you should give them a lot of money, to take your TS's off your hands.  

The BEST practice is to get give away/sell your unwanted timeshares yourself.

BTW - this is not the same as a foreclosure, or the Viking Ship method, because it would be an orderly and legal transfer of the timeshare deed from the Estate to the HOA - not abandonment.


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## AL (Oct 30, 2014)

*We are in much the same boat!*

We began going to Wyndham "owner updates" on our visits to see if we could get some assistance with the issue.  Wyndham uses the "in perpetuity" to sell their times shares.  But they never explain exactly how it works and no one asks, because after all, you are not exactly on your death beds when you make a purchase.  My father-in-law passed away two years ago and my mother-in-law can no longer travel.  
Presenters at these updates - aka sales meetings - would avoid those questions and quite often chastise us for even making an attempt to learn how "ownership in perpetuity" works.  Finally at last, one of the sale persons followed us out the door and, making sure he was not observed, informed us that heirs would have to make a purchase to be eligible to inherit their parents' time shares.  We asked what purchase would be required - without knowing specifically the details of my in-laws ownership - he quoted to us "95,000  to 125,000 additional points."  We were floored!  We then attended another "owner update"  and when the "perpetuity" benefit was presented we inquired if the information we had been given about a point purchase requirement to inherit we were escorted out of the meeting.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 30, 2014)

amcneal said:


> We began going to Wyndham "owner updates" on our visits to see if we could get some assistance with the issue.  Wyndham uses the "in perpetuity" to sell their times shares.  But they never explain exactly how it works and no one asks, because after all, you are not exactly on your death beds when you make a purchase.  My father-in-law passed away two years ago and my mother-in-law can no longer travel.
> Presenters at these updates - aka sales meetings - would avoid those questions and quite often chastise us for even making an attempt to learn how "ownership in perpetuity" works.  Finally at last, one of the sale persons followed us out the door and, making sure he was not observed, informed us that heirs would have to make a purchase to be eligible to inherit their parents' time shares.  We asked what purchase would be required - without knowing specifically the details of my in-laws ownership - he quoted to us "95,000  to 125,000 additional points."  We were floored!  We then attended another "owner update"  and when the "perpetuity" benefit was presented we inquired if the information we had been given about a point purchase requirement to inherit we were escorted out of the meeting.



Actually, if you want the ownership and your parents have a VIP status ... you can keep the status (as long as the number of points you take keep you at that level) ... it is written in the Member's Directory in the "VIP Benefits" section. NO POINTS NEEDED TO BE BROUGHT to do that.... 

Sales weasels will always tell you, "to do anything with Wyndham, you need to BUY MORE POINTS". Just remember these words, "If their lips are moving, they are lying".


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## CO skier (Oct 30, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> BTW - this is not the same as a foreclosure, or the Viking Ship method, because it would be an orderly and legal transfer of the timeshare deed from the Estate to the HOA - not abandonment.



A foreclosure is just as orderly (if an involuntary repossession can be called that) and legal.

The legality of the Viking ships has not been tested (AFAIK).  Some states have passed laws to address this business model, but I do not know if anyone has been prosecuted.

Foreclosures, Viking Ships and disclaimed inheritances are all the same and just as bad news to the timeshare owners, because the previous owner abandoned their timeshare without finding a replacement, dues-paying buyer, and all three of these exit plans leave the remaining owners with a mounting bad debt bill.


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## bogey21 (Oct 30, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Don't get me wrong - I don't advocate dumping your timeshares on your kids.  It is far better to implement an exit plan while you are still breathing.



Agree.  This is exactly what I did starting around age 75.  I went to my kids and said who wants any of these 7 Weeks.  My Son wanted Orofino so I transferred it into his name.  I slowly got rid of the others.  Going forward they are non issues.

George


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## Rent_Share (Oct 30, 2014)

CO skier said:


> because the previous owner abandoned their timeshare without finding a replacement, dues-paying buyer, and all three of these exit plans leave the remaining owners with a mounting bad debt bill.



The original purchaser signed a contract and agreed to pay maintenance fees,  all contracts must have an exit strategy and/or termination clause.

The seller (Developer) pitched that they were selling proportional real estate, that would have value and be inheritable, the law basis that allows for the beneficiaries of the estate to refuse the inheritance as worthless and burdensome based on the on-going maintenance fees is was in place when all timeshares were developed. 

 The HOA's need to approach it from an actuarial point of view, X number of units will be abandoned annually due to the death and or default of the original purchaser, and Y percentage will be assumed by the beneficiaries. A strategy to remarket the intervals or bundle 52 intervals and sell off as a wholly owned condominium to liquidate the HOA owned intervals.

Unless the executor accidentally transferred, or the beneficiary wasn't aware of the right to abandon, the maintenance fee contract is only good for the life of the last willing transferee

Lacking the ability to abandon, how many generations of beneficiaries should be expected to assume the responsibility for a mistake made by their Great, Great, Grand Parents in exchange for tickets to a tacky Luau . . .


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## persia (Oct 30, 2014)

In the end it's not so much of a big deal, any competent lawyer can do the paperwork to properly abandon the timeshare and be sure the heirs aren't stuck with it. The only real cost is up to a year's worth of maintenance fees....


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## CO skier (Oct 30, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> Lacking the ability to abandon, how many generations of beneficiaries should be expected to assume the responsibility for a mistake made by their Great, Great, Grand Parents in exchange for tickets to a tacky Luau . . .



Someone has to pay the maintenance fees for that mistake.  You seem to be saying that because it is legal, it is OK for heirs to stick the remaining timeshare owners with the bill for the mistake, and the heirs can keep the change.

It is not fair to the heirs or the other timeshare owners when timeshare owners do not find a buyer so that their heirs or other owners are not stuck with the bill.  I do not have the silver bullet answer.  I do know someone who owned at a progressive timeshare that, when she could not vacation there due to medical reasons related to the altitude, the resort graciously offered to accept her deed-back with the payment of two years of maintenance fees.  That seemed to be a fair solution for all parties.  It gave the resort two years to resell the unit (no developer involved), and two years before the other owners would have to cover the mf if the unit did not sell in that timeframe.

Foreclosures, Viking Ships and disclaimed inheritances involve costs in addition to the delinquent maintenance fees.  Too many HOA stupidly refuse to accept any deed-backs to offer their aging owners a dignified exit plan, so these owners have only foreclosure, Viking Ships or let-my-heirs-deal-with-it exit plans.





napfabob said:


> The law allows an individual beneficiary to "disclaim" an asset being left to them under the terms of a will or trust.  Normally, unless specifically stated in the will or trust to the contrary, the devise then passes to the next person in line assuming the original beneficiary had died. (that is the assumption made).  As a  non-attorney, but experienced estate planner, this is an issue that has recently been brought up for discussion among myself and some pretty bright estate planning attorneys. If we had the chance to plan this "before" the death of the owner, we would isolate the timeshare in the estate as the "Only" asset and have all other asset titled in a Revocable Trust prior to the death of the time share owner.  The will would then leave the time share to the children and after death, the owners (children) would all "disclaim" the time share.  At this point, the executor would then advise the probate court that no one took the timeshare and that there is no money "in the probate estate" to pay fees of any kind, including transfer fees.  The executor would then advise the management company of the situation and basically tell them that the estate is deadlocked and there is no owner to take the time share nor monies to pay any fee.  Our conclusion (our best guess) was that if the management company continues to refused to take back the time share, then simply leave the estate open forever (No additional probate fees to the best of my knowledge)  At some point, it was our collective opinion that the management company would give in if for no other reason then to try to resell the unit.



Is it just me, or does this sound exactly like the Viking Ship model; i.e., put the timeshare in an asset-less legal entity, then let it sink when the time comes?  In the end, the other timeshare owners are stuck with the mf bill, just like with the Viking Ships.

Maybe this should be called the Viking Yacht model.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 30, 2014)

The law is quite clear, (and in place before condominium deeds or timeshare deeds, were ever imagined) you cannot be forced to accept ANY inheritance, much less one with an ongoing contractual obligation and debt dies with the decedent.

 The HOA's needs to have a remarketing strategy


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## CO skier (Oct 31, 2014)

Rent_Share said:


> The HOA's needs to have a remarketing strategy



Yes, because whether by foreclosure, Viking Ships, or disclaimed inheritances these abandoned weeks are headed their way and they have no way to avoid them.


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## persia (Oct 31, 2014)

You can't force people who may not have even been born yet to be saddled with debt that they had no hand in creating. People's mistakes die with them. Otherwise people would be willing their bad debts to their enemies as a final revenge from the grave. Sometimes dead people have all the luck  



CO skier said:


> Someone has to pay the maintenance fees for that mistake.  You seem to be saying that because it is legal, it is OK for heirs to stick the remaining timeshare owners with the bill for the mistake, and the heirs can keep the change.
> 
> It is not fair to the heirs or the other timeshare owners when timeshare owners do not find a buyer so that their heirs or other owners are not stuck with the bill.  I do not have the silver bullet answer.  I do know someone who owned at a progressive timeshare that, when she could not vacation there due to medical reasons related to the altitude, the resort graciously offered to accept her deed-back with the payment of two years of maintenance fees.  That seemed to be a fair solution for all parties.  It gave the resort two years to resell the unit (no developer involved), and two years before the other owners would have to cover the mf if the unit did not sell in that timeframe.
> 
> ...


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## flindberg (Nov 30, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> Actually, if you want the ownership and your parents have a VIP status ... you can keep the status (as long as the number of points you take keep you at that level) ... it is written in the Member's Directory in the "VIP Benefits" section. NO POINTS NEEDED TO BE BROUGHT to do that....
> 
> Sales weasels will always tell you, "to do anything with Wyndham, you need to BUY MORE POINTS". Just remember these words, "If their lips are moving, they are lying".


Hoping someone will see this as it is a much older thread... Any insight is welcome!
My mother passed recently leaving her VIP TS in a trust. My siblings want nothing to do with it. I am interested in having the points (one UDI contract and two converted float weeks). How much time do I have to decide what I want to do with the contracts? I have had POA for these for the past two years as my mother needed help managing reservations.


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## Passepartout (Nov 30, 2018)

flindberg said:


> Hoping someone will see this as it is a much older thread... Any insight is welcome!
> My mother passed recently leaving her VIP TS in a trust. My siblings want nothing to do with it. I am interested in having the points (one UDI contract and two converted float weeks). How much time do I have to decide what I want to do with the contracts? I have had POA for these for the past two years as my mother needed help managing reservations.


It ALL depends on what the trust SAYS, and who the trustee is. End of free legal advice.

Jim


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## flindberg (Nov 30, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> It ALL depends on what the trust SAYS, and who the trustee is. End of free legal advice.
> 
> Jim


 Thank you for the 'free legal' advice 
My sibling is executor. My sibling told me to transfer the deeds/contracts into my name in order to "get the damn thing out" of the trust. I'm not sure yet if I want to take it on as MF's total ~$2500/yr. Do you know if one or the other is more complicated? I mean UDI or Converted Points Float Week?
Thanks...


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## Passepartout (Nov 30, 2018)

flindberg said:


> Thank you for the 'free legal' advice
> My sibling is executor. My sibling told me to transfer the deeds/contracts into my name in order to "get the damn thing out" of the trust. I'm not sure yet if I want to take it on as MF's total ~$2500/yr. Do you know if one or the other is more complicated? I mean UDI or Converted Points Float Week?
> Thanks...


Many TUGgers use www.LTTransfers.com to do transfers. They are TUGgers and charge very reasonable fees. They can tell you all about it.

Jim


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## macmanrider (Jan 9, 2019)

flindberg said:


> Thank you for the 'free legal' advice
> My sibling is executor. My sibling told me to transfer the deeds/contracts into my name in order to "get the damn thing out" of the trust. I'm not sure yet if I want to take it on as MF's total ~$2500/yr. Do you know if one or the other is more complicated? I mean UDI or Converted Points Float Week?
> Thanks...


That's to high of m/f for me I have 2 fixed weeks at Costa Sur in PV Mexico m/f were $1100 for 2 weeks and I have a odd week in lake Tahoe $620 with GPR. I can buy into rci points if I want to go somewhere else. Take your time do your research make sure it's a resort you want to use. Ours in Tahoe is close to us 1.3/4 hr drive and because we are owners we can use the day use. And we are right on the lake so we go on hot days. To cool off .


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## flindberg (Jan 10, 2019)

macmanrider said:


> Take your time do your research make sure it's a resort you want to use.





Passepartout said:


> Many TUGgers use www.LTTransfers.com to do transfers.


Thanks Jim & Macman! I appreciate the responses and your points are well taken. I've contacted LT Transfers and they are super helpful already!


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