# Pono Kai part of Diamond Resorts now???



## Cathyb (May 3, 2009)

I am a frustrated Pono Kai owner, fixed Week 52 -- is it true that Diamond Resorts is also a part of PK?  I saw our resort listed on their site www.diamondresorts.com/Pono-Kai 

Do any Tuggers know which buildings they are managing/own?   Are they the old Pacific Fantasy group or has the resort been divided again?

If we were to purchase on Ebay some Diamond Resort points, would also owning at Pono Kai give us any advantages of using other Diamond resorts using whatever values Pono Kai has with Diamond?

Can anyone see any strategy we could pursue?  We are very unhappy with what has happened with Pono Kai over the last 20 years in Management there.  TIA


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## csalter2 (May 3, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> I am a frustrated Pono Kai owner, fixed Week 52 -- is it true that Diamond Resorts is also a part of PK?  I saw our resort listed on their site www.diamondresorts.com/Pono-Kai
> 
> Do any Tuggers know which buildings they are managing/own?   Are they the old Pacific Fantasy group or has the resort been divided again?
> 
> ...



Pon Kai is only a DRI affiliate. There is an arrangement with that resort for DRI Club members to use points and make reservations there.  If you bought points on Ebay you would only be able to use them for Pono Kai unless you bought into the Club which DRI allows you to join for around $3000. You will also be asked to purchase additional points. Pono Kai may now be a part of the Hawaii resorts. I like the points because they do provide flexibility. However, you will need quite a few of them to really go where you want to go especially during peak summer seasons. You really need at least 10,000 points to have some flexibililty. You can also save a year's worth of points which would give you more opportunity to go where you want in larger rooms. A lot will depend on what you want to do and how you vacation. 

Buy the points if you want to vacation more. They are costly when bought through DRI and they will make you pay to bring those points into the Club. DRI points can also help in exchanging a great deal with II. I use them for exchanges frequently to very nice resorts like Marriott's.


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## Cathyb (May 3, 2009)

Carlito:  That is exactly the answer I was looking for -- thank you.  We own six other timeshares so really are not in the market for anything else.  Pono Kai ownership for us has been a grey-hair experience.  We have gone thru 4-5 different management companies and each time a little piece of flexibility has been stripped of us.  The worse now is Bluegreen


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 3, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Carlito:  That is exactly the answer I was looking for -- thank you.  We own six other timeshares so really are not in the market for anything else.  Pono Kai ownership for us has been a grey-hair experience.  We have gone thru 4-5 different management companies and each time a little piece of flexibility has been stripped of us.  The worse now is Bluegreen



Cathy - I believe that the relationship between Pono Kai and DRI involves the Vacation Internationale inventory at Pono Kai.  Part of the settlement between VI and Sunterra (now DRI) when VI terminated the Sunterra management contract was an agreement for VI to provide some inventory to DRI.  (This was probably needed because while Sunterra managed VI, they sold Sunterra Club memberships to some VI owners, which meant that even after the split Sunterra had rights to a corresponding amount of VI inventory.)

Anyway, all VI resorts show in DRI's listing of resorts.  There is not very much VI inventory in the CRI system, though I did see a three-day window at Pono Kai for this August.  In my observations, of the Hawaii VI resorts Pono Kai is one of the resorts that shows the least availability in the DRI Club.

*******

Purchasing DRI points wouldn't give you any advantages that I can see for getting into Pono Kai.  Pono Kai is not a DRI resort, so it's not included any of the trusts.  So you can't get a home resort advantage for booking into it.  Any availability for Pono Kai in the DRI system opens at 10 months before checking.  Prior to that time any Pono Kai inventory is likely available only to those orphaned VI members of the DRI Club.

******

But what you might consider is buying some VI points on the resale market.  You could then use those to book at Pono Kai or any of the other VI resorts.  VI is owner controlled, there is absolutely no penalty or loss of any privileges when a resale membership is purchased, and memberships are selling dirt cheap on eBay.  It's not uncommon to see 100 point annual VRI contracts with 200 points in the bank (and with ~ $800 closing costs + title transfer and one annual fees payment) auction for less than $100.  I've even seen some auctions of that type recently conclude with zero bids.


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## JanB (May 3, 2009)

FWIW.  We went to a presentation in Bransonand the salesman told us that Wyndham (or was it DRI?) was buying out Bluegreen?

I took it with a grain of salt.


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## JoeMid (May 3, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> Pon Kai is only a DRI affiliate. There is an arrangement with that resort for DRI Club members to use points and make reservations there.  If you bought points on Ebay you would only be able to use them for Pono Kai unless you bought into the Club which DRI allows you to join for around $3000. You will also be asked to purchase additional points. Pono Kai may now be a part of the Hawaii resorts. I like the points because they do provide flexibility. However, you will need quite a few of them to really go where you want to go especially during peak summer seasons. You really need at least 10,000 points to have some flexibililty. You can also save a year's worth of points which would give you more opportunity to go where you want in larger rooms. A lot will depend on what you want to do and how you vacation.
> 
> Buy the points if you want to vacation more. They are costly when bought through DRI and they will make you pay to bring those points into the Club. DRI points can also help in exchanging a great deal with II. I use them for exchanges frequently to very nice resorts like Marriott's.





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Cathy - I believe that the relationship between Pono Kai and DRI involves the Vacation Internationale inventory at Pono Kai.  Part of the settlement between VI and Sunterra (now DRI) when VI terminated the Sunterra management contract was an agreement for VI to provide some inventory to DRI.  (This was probably needed because while Sunterra managed VI, they sold Sunterra Club memberships to some VI owners, which meant that even after the split Sunterra had rights to a corresponding amount of VI inventory.)
> 
> Anyway, all VI resorts show in DRI's listing of resorts.  There is not very much VI inventory in the CRI system, though I did see a three-day window at Pono Kai for this August.  In my observations, of the Hawaii VI resorts Pono Kai is one of the resorts that shows the least availability in the DRI Club.
> 
> ...


Please know that that Carlito's explanation is not based in fact and Steve's explanation is as close to the truth as we'll ever know.  VI has terrifically expensive maintenance fees, a reason that they sell so slow.



JanB said:


> FWIW.  We went to a presentation in Bransonand the salesman told us that Wyndham (or was it DRI?) was buying out Bluegreen?
> 
> I took it with a grain of salt.


If you'd taken it with a grain of salt before the crash it was close to being true, DRI had a tentative offer to buy BG at something like $16 per share.  Take a look at what BG shares are today.  it didn't happen.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 3, 2009)

JanB said:


> FWIW.  We went to a presentation in Bransonand the salesman told us that Wyndham (or was it DRI?) was buying out Bluegreen?
> 
> I took it with a grain of salt.



As Joe said there was a firm agreement for DRI to acquire BG. Terms had been negotiated and the deal had been announced by both companies.  The only significant remaining contingency was financing.  

Before the deal could be closed the credit markets crashed.  BG and DRi negotiated an extension of time for DRI to arrange financing, but during that time the credit market implosion actually became more pronounced.  

Meanwhile, the expiration came and passed. so now there is no longer any deal.

Should the financing situation improve, I expect the deal to be resurrected.


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## csalter2 (May 3, 2009)

JoeMid said:


> Please know that that Carlito's explanation is not based in fact and Steve's explanation is as close to the truth as we'll ever know.  VI has terrifically expensive maintenance fees, a reason that they sell so slow.
> 
> If you'd taken it with a grain of salt before the crash it was close to being true, DRI had a tentative offer to buy BG at something like $16 per share.  Take a look at what BG shares are today.  it didn't happen.



JoeMid,

I try not to state anything that I don't know to be fact and try to qualify what I think to be an opinion. It is a fact that Pono Kai is an affiliate of DRI. It is a fact that DRI Club members can make reservations to stay there. It is a fact that if you buy points on Ebay from someone you will be charged around $3000  (I believe the exact asking price is $2995) to join the Club in order to bring them into the Club to use them. It is a fact that the purchasing points from DRI is expensive. It is a fact that you do need a lot of points to go places during peek times and 10000 points can get you into most places in the DRI Club. 

If there is something speculative please let me know because I don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 3, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> If there is something speculative please let me know because I don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction.





csalter2 said:


> If you bought points on Ebay you would only be able to use them for Pono Kai unless you bought into the Club which DRI allows you to join for around $3000.


The above statement is absolutely wrong. If you bought DRI points on eBay you would *never* be able to use them for Pono Kai unless and until you brought the points into the Club.  That's because DRI owns nothing at Pono Kai and the only way to get into Pono Kai using DRI is through whatever inventory filters in through VRI *VI* (or if a Pono Kai owner deposits a week using Club Select).  At that point, you are competing with thousands of other DRI Club owners for the limited amount of Pono Kai inventory released to DRI by VRI *VI*.



csalter2 said:


> Pono Kai may now be a part of the Hawaii resorts.


I assume that when you say "part of the Hawai'i resorts" you mean part of the Hawai'i collection.  That's the only way I can think of to interpret this statement so that makes sense in the context of this thread.

Not only is this statement speculative, a perusal of the list of resorts included in the Hawaii Collection would show that it's wrong. As you note elsewhere Pono Kai is an Affiliated Resort.  That means there is no DRI ownership at the resort.


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## JoeMid (May 3, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> JoeMid,
> 
> I try not to state anything that I don't know to be fact and try to qualify what I think to be an opinion. It is a fact that Pono Kai is an affiliate of DRI. It is a fact that DRI Club members can make reservations to stay there. It is a fact that if you buy points on Ebay from someone you will be charged around $3000  (I believe the exact asking price is $2995) to join the Club in order to bring them into the Club to use them. It is a fact that the purchasing points from DRI is expensive. It is a fact that you do need a lot of points to go places during peek times and 10000 points can get you into most places in the DRI Club.
> 
> If there is something speculative please let me know because I don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction.


Dear Carlito,
Exactly what Steve said is what I was referring to (except substitute VI for VRI).  I would speculate that you really don't understand the different affiliate relationships nor all the requirements and intricacies for joining THE Club.  Stick around and you might learn what most Gold Elites don't know.
Cheers,
Joe


T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The above statement is absolutely wrong. If you bought DRI points on eBay you would *never* be able to use them for Pono Kai unless and until you brought the points into the Club.  That's because DRI owns nothing at Pono Kai and the only way to get into Pono Kai using DRI is through whatever inventory filters in through VRI (or if a Pono Kai owner deposits a week using Club Select).  At that point, you are competing with thousands of other DRI Club owners for the limited amount of Pono Kai inventory released to DRI by VRI.
> 
> 
> I assume that when you say "part of the Hawai'i resorts" you mean part of the Hawai'i collection.  That's the only way I can think of to interpret this statement so that makes sense in the context of this thread.
> ...


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## Cathyb (May 3, 2009)

Thank you all for your views.  It still looks like we are basically stuck with our present situation.  Bluegreen is holding the Contract designation of Building, Unit (away from the ocean) assigned to us at purchase as the unit we get every year -- which of course is not the oceanfront we were able to enjoy for 20 years prior to Bluegreen management interpretation.  We bought a fixed week, *floating* unit -- that is what we believed all these years.


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## JoeMid (May 3, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Thank you all for your views.  It still looks like we are basically stuck with our present situation.  Bluegreen is holding the Contract designation of Building, Unit (away from the ocean) assigned to us at purchase as the unit we get every year -- which of course is not the oceanfront we were able to enjoy for 20 years prior to Bluegreen management interpretation.  We bought a fixed week, *floating* unit -- that is what we believed all these years.


It's really amazing how new management can interpret the same statements and rules to the new managements advantage and the old owners disadvantage, isn't it?


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## csalter2 (May 3, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The above statement is absolutely wrong. If you bought DRI points on eBay you would *never* be able to use them for Pono Kai unless and until you brought the points into the Club.  That's because DRI owns nothing at Pono Kai and the only way to get into Pono Kai using DRI is through whatever inventory filters in through VRI (or if a Pono Kai owner deposits a week using Club Select).  At that point, you are competing with thousands of other DRI Club owners for the limited amount of Pono Kai inventory released to DRI by VRI.
> 
> 
> I assume that when you say "part of the Hawai'i resorts" you mean part of the Hawai'i collection.  That's the only way I can think of to interpret this statement so that makes sense in the context of this thread.
> ...



There was partly a lack of communication on my part. I actually checked where Pono Kai fell in the DRI system before I posted that is why I called it an affiliate. I did not say it was in the trust because it did not show as part of any of the collections. I meant that it was just part of DRI's resorts in Hawaii.  

My fault for thinking that the OP was buying Ebay DRI points that were somehow connected to a deed for Pono Kai. Since Pono Kai is not in a trust there could not be any points associated one way or the other . You're right. I am wrong.


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## ragtop (May 4, 2009)

Just curious: what are the MFs for your interest at PK?


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## aliikai2 (May 4, 2009)

*For a 2 bedroom Pono Kai unit*

The annual fees for 2009 where $878.48 without the ADRA contribution.

Now if you asking about VI, they have seasons, low season it takes 94.5 points that this year cost $6.97 each or $658.67 for a week, mid season 112 points $780.64, or prime season 129.5 points $902.62.

Each of these will have the Hawaiian TAT added, the Pono Kai you pay at check out, the VI you pay on your account after the use of your week(s) .

Fwiw,

Greg





ragtop said:


> Just curious: what are the MFs for your interest at PK?


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## Mimi (May 4, 2009)

Cathyb said:


> Thank you all for your views.  It still looks like we are basically stuck with our present situation.  Bluegreen is holding the Contract designation of Building, Unit (away from the ocean) assigned to us at purchase as the unit we get every year -- which of course is not the oceanfront we were able to enjoy for 20 years prior to Bluegreen management interpretation.  We bought a fixed week, *floating* unit -- that is what we believed all these years.



Cathyb, We own two 1br floating units at Pono Kai. Our deeds indicate we own Wk. 15 F-208 and Wk. 25 B-102.  We routinely phone Bluegreen 12 months in advance and have never been refused summer oceanfront units. In fact, we usually reserve A-303 or A-304 which are 1br loft units and we request to remain in the same unit for our two week stay. (We stayed in A-303 for 2 weeks in January and could see whales from our lanai!)  Our mf's are $631. and we have always been pleased with our dealings with Bluegreen and the Pono Kai staff.


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## citymouse0_1 (May 5, 2009)

Like Mimi, I have never had a problem with an oceanfront unit requesting approximately 12 months out either.  I know that my actual deed shows a non oceanfront unit.  Curious?

Chris


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## sailingman22 (May 5, 2009)

We also own a deeded "floating" oceanfront week and were able to reserve oceanfront for ourselves last November and rent another oceanfront unit for family using bonus time. We have reservation for this December for an ocean front unit and were offered multiple units in buildings A-D. I hope to use bonus time again for friends visiting Kauai with us in December. 

I would call Bluegreen again and ask about availability for the week you are requesting. They have always been helpful with making reservations to meet our request.


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## ragtop (May 5, 2009)

> The annual fees for 2009 where $878.48 without the ADRA contribution.  Now if you asking about VI, they have seasons, low season it takes 94.5 points that this year cost $6.97 each or $658.67 for a week, mid season 112 points $780.64, or prime season 129.5 points $902.62.



Thanks, this is helpful information. I always thought the VI fees were not all that high compared to other Hawaii programs (I pay over $1100 for a Makai Club 2BR).


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