# Current WKORVN Prices/Incentives?



## AKronin (Mar 8, 2006)

I joined TUG a few weeks ago and have been reading, reading, reading and learning so much. Hopefully I'm ready, so here goes my first post...

I attended a presentation of the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas North about a month ago and remember the director of sales telling me that there was going to be a price increase March 1. Does anybody know what the new prices and/or incentives are? I checked the TUG sales database but the last entry for the property was six months ago. When I was there 2BR lockoff prices ranged from $45K for island view up to $67K (I think) for the ocean view, with 80K bonus starpoints upon signing and the option to purchase another 85K for ~$1800. Of course, this is all from memory since they gave me no figures in writing to take home (but plenty of pretty brochures   ).

In the bigger picture, does anybody know how quickly Starwood prices usually go up? I'm just wondering, if I decide to purchase, when is the best time to buy to get the optimal price/incentive combination. Should I assume the sooner the better?

I'm normally a rational, logical fellow but I'm finding myself seriously considering buying from the developer. I'm really smitten with the Maui property and like the benefits offered by Starwood: point incentives, gold status, hotel conversion flexibility. I did manage to muster the willpower to say no the first time around, though I did bite at the second offer they dangled in front of me. For those not familiar with the presentation process, we first met Pleasant Tour Guide, then Closer Dude, followed by Exit Survey Guy. We said no to Closer Dude so Exit Survey Guy offered us the "Explorer" package, whereby we agreed to a future, prepaid 5-night stay at the Westin Maui within the next 18 mos. During our return trip, if we take the tour again we get 50K more bonus starpoints. In retrospect the price may not have been that great, but I was blinded by the points.


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## arlene22 (Mar 8, 2006)

At Harborside the prices go up every 6 months. The Explorer package locks in the price that was in effect when you purchased it until the time that you return. Have you checked the resale prices?


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## Negma (Mar 8, 2006)

Their last price increase was February 1st.


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## skim118 (Mar 8, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> The Explorer package locks in the price that was in effect when you purchased it until the time that you return.




Is that true ?  That was not the way the "closer" told us in Westin Kierland.  The deal in Kierland was for 50K starpoints and a 4-day vacation for $1500 & this amount to be applied towards the purchase price that exists during the return presentation + whatever point incentives they are providing.

Sara


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## grgs (Mar 8, 2006)

I think the Explorer package may lock in the incentives, but not the price.  The cost of the package will be deducted from the cost of the timeshare should you decide to purchase (half of the pack price will be deducted if you get an EOY).  If you're pretty sure you're going to buy, it's not a bad deal.  In any case, it gives you some time to research without a big commitment.

Glorian


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## arlene22 (Mar 8, 2006)

the Explorer package we have for Vistana Villages definitely locked the price for us, not just for VV, but for other resorts that they sell at VV.


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## temerson (Mar 8, 2006)

Here are the prices as of 3/1/06 (we attended last week):

All 2 Bd
IV $44,900 - 75K SPG pts
IV EOY $30,900 - 40K
OV $57,900 - 100K
OV EOY $37,900 - 60K
OF $68,900 - 150K
OF EOY $41,400 - 90K

All the IV and OV are for 2008 occupancy and are offered the SPG promo of 80K pts for $1675.  The OF will be available for occupancy the latter half of 2007, but if you purchase EOY and defer until 2008 you will also be offered the promo pkg.

I have all the event week prices as well if anyone is interested.


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## rocky (Mar 8, 2006)

temerson said:
			
		

> Here are the prices as of 3/1/06 (we attended last week):
> 
> All 2 Bd
> IV $44,900 - 75K SPG pts
> ...



OMG the OV price is high.  I know there is a lot of contention about the varying quality of the OV's at the "old" WKORV but that price is like $14K higher than I paid for a OV at the old resort, and so far, my views have been fine.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2006)

Do a search on my TUG moniker (blujahz) and WKORV - I have wriiten about my experiences and decisons based on the same presentation in Dec.  Funny - it looks as if the OF price has decreased (was 74.9K) - when the SALESMAN told us the price wasw going to increase - what a surprise - lol


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## AKronin (Mar 8, 2006)

Thanks for all your replies. They have all been very helpful, especially temerson's unit by unit breakdown. (You must've been taking notes!) From what I understand, it looks like prices haven't changed since I attended February 1. Hmmm, so the director of sales was actually wrong? Inconceivable!   

There does seem to be some disagreement as to whether the Explorer package locks in the price and/or incentives. Normally I would just call the sales office to find out, but from what I recall they disagreed even with themselves on those details. Exit Survey Guy said yes/yes, but when I called several days later the salesperson said only one of the figures was locked (I forget which). Would this vary by property? Does anybody know for sure or have a definite Explorer-to-owner experience for the WKORVN?

blujahz, thanks for the tip. I will search your posts some more. I have done so to some degree because I had already identified you as a new owner who has already asked some of the same questions I have and recently survived the purchasing process.

In any event, I have at least 30 more days to ponder. I have to wait out the 60-day rule so I can get my Explorer stay, Explorer bonus points _and_  the regular incentives. BTW, I've only found one WKORVN property listed on the resale sites and it was at or very near developer prices. It was close enough that buying direct with all the goodies was the clear choice.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2006)

AKronin said:
			
		

> blujahz, thanks for the tip. I will search your posts some more. I have done so to some degree because I had already identified you as a new owner who has already asked some of the same questions I have and recently survived the purchasing process.



I ended up rescinding the OF WKORV-N contract after I found TUG - and bought a resale Deluxe OF at WKORV for ~20K less.  OF WKORV is more of a true OF, and the unit is ~400sqft bigger with the same ~MFs, and we can occupy this year.     Resale OF WKORV worked better for us, although WKORV-N looked pretty nice - we had little use for StarPoints, got a bigger, less expensive unit with a ~25ft long lanai with the 1bd part, and more of a private lanai with the studio part (although it is on the side of the building in the front)

With the extra money we didn't spend - we ended up buying a unit at WSJ on eBay.

btw, a Deluxe OF WKORV just went unsold on eBay for $49.5K - we could have saved even more if we weren't bitten by the TS bug, and were a little more patient.


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## Denise L (Mar 8, 2006)

Way back in 2003, we bought an Explorer Package. I didn't recall any mention of freezing the price at the time, but I do remember them saying that FIRST DAY INCENTIVES would not be available. Of course, we never had a first day since we bought over the telephone without looking, so that part didn't matter to us. It seems to me that buyers have been getting whatever Starpoint incentives are available when they purchase, regardless of whether they have already been offered them previously. At WKORV, at least, it seemed that incentives were high in the beginning and low or non-existent near the end.

I wish I would have purchased WKORV earlier during preconstruction...lots of incentives and a lot less expensive.  Oh well, if you like all the developer perks, go for it. We did, and have no regrets.  Know that when resales show up later next year or in 2008, they will probably be about $8-9K less than developer prices.


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## AKronin (Mar 8, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> With the extra money we didn't spend - we ended up buying a unit at WSJ on eBay.


Robin, Thanks for the summary. You're right, $20K is a lot of money -- and would buy a heck of a lot of starpoints. I have only just started looking and haven't been tracking the auctions long, but how frequently do OF units come up on eBay?



			
				deniselew said:
			
		

> I wish I would have purchased WKORV earlier during preconstruction...lots of incentives and a lot less expensive. Oh well, if you like all the developer perks, go for it. We did, and have no regrets. Know that when resales show up later next year or in 2008, they will probably be about $8-9K less than developer prices.


Denise, thanks for sharing your developer purchase experience. Another thing I liked about the developer option is the ability to pay with my SPG Amex (but pay off immediately) and score even more points. The WKORV listings I found recently on eBay did not accept credit cards, or even PayPal. I know this depends upon the sellers and will be a case by case situation.


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## adamak (Mar 8, 2006)

AKronin,
I'm in a very similiar boat as you.  I went last Sept, took the tour, didn't buy, but got the Explorer package.  Haven't returned yet, and still researching.  TUG is great help BTW.  Back in Sept, they were selling Island View for 45K, and IV EOY for $33K (quite sure I remembered correctly).  So it does look like the price dropped a bit for IV EOY!  They weren't selling OV or OF at that time.  And I don't remember the 80K Starpoint promo.

Personally I don't think I'll buy resale because (1) I travel alot internationally, and the starpoints will help.  (2) I like the flexibility of hotel (3) Gold status for business travel.

There was no mention of price freezing for the Explorer package.  I would only get 10K incentives the package price deduction if I buy when I return.  I bought the package (to find an excuse for me to go back there).

I just hope the price won't go too crazy rest of this year.  Does it ever make sense to buy anything other than IV?  Can you upgrade the unit from IV to OV/ OF after you buy in?


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 8, 2006)

rocky said:
			
		

> OMG the OV price is high.  I know there is a lot of contention about the varying quality of the OV's at the "old" WKORV but that price is like $14K higher than I paid for a OV at the old resort, and so far, my views have been fine.



I agree...  OV is definitely more expensive on the North side.  I'm glad we got in when we did.

Tina


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2006)

A few thoughts and comments based on *MY * opinion/observations:

I think that SVO helped resolve the issue of OV between WKORV and WKORV-N by changing the overall layout at WKORV-N (better angles).  At WKORV, OV units may end up being 'parking lot' view that has made some people (owners, exchangers, renters) quite angry, and as had the effect of reducing their overall value.

Additionally, OF at WKORV-N may be more like the good OV units at WKORV.  After doing our own DD - this is why we bought resale Deluxe OF WKORV based on our wants and needs (true Maui OF, larger, same ~MFs, less cost, SVN system) - $20K for 150K StarPoints didn't seem worth it.  There are only 24 of these units at WKORV, have held steady in their value, and are prime TS to own (albeit, at a very high premium)

As to the eBay Deluxe OF WKORV - I have only seen one in the last 3 months.  The Realtor who sold us ours had the perspective that OF WKORV owners are unique buyers and don't come around that often, and perhaps that is why the ebay OF unit had no bidders at $49.5K (a very good price based on my research).  I would add to this that the broker who put this up on eBay could have taken a different eBay approach (e.g. not set a high initial bid, better described what the buyer was bidding on) - this is a common eBay problem.

That said - I still have the broker's email info if you want to contact them - this unit is likely still in their inventory, and they might even come down a bit.  A word of caution is the ROFR - for example let's say they had a low initial bid and someone gave a very low winning bid of $30-35K for this OF Deluxe WKORV unit (same price OVs are selling at). It is likely at SVO would use their ROFR, and the sale would not occur.  A low-ball offer would unlikely pass thru the ROFR process.


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## AKronin (Mar 9, 2006)

adamak said:
			
		

> Does it ever make sense to buy anything other than IV? Can you upgrade the unit from IV to OV/ OF after you buy in?


I was told during my presentation that I could buy in at the lower IV or 1BR level and upgrade later. I'm not sure how the pricing would work on this, but I imagine such a deal would be subject to availability. I do remember reading on another thread that buyers can start with an EOY unit and upgrade to EY later for the price difference that existed at the time of the original sale. If you're buying for starpoint or staroption conversion, I think the IV would be fine. If you plan to go to Maui most of the time, then it's probably worth it to pay extra to get exactly what you want.



			
				blujahz said:
			
		

> Additionally, OF at WKORV-N may be more like the good OV units at WKORV. After doing our own DD - this is why we bought resale Deluxe OF WKORV based on our wants and needs (true Maui OF, larger, same ~MFs, less cost, SVN system) - $20K for 150K StarPoints didn't seem worth it. There are only 24 of these units at WKORV, have held steady in their value, and are prime TS to own (albeit, at a very high premium)


I agree with your view analysis. Due to the angles, it sure seems like the OF units are better at WKORV and the OV units at WKORV-N. Even the IV units don't look too bad at the new property (a pool's better than a parking lot). I wish I could compare more than just sketches. As it is, I try not to think about the "Artist's Renderings, finished product may vary" disclaimer too much. With only 24 OF units, are they difficult to reserve?

Thanks for the reminder about the ROFR. I see it as a double-edged sword. It may prevent buyers from getting the best deal on a resale, but it also protects existing owners from losing too much value by preventing prices from dipping too low. If you don't mind, I would welcome the email info for the realtor selling the OF on eBay. Feel free to PM me. Thanks!


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2006)

Ramble follows: Sent PM.  As an owner, OF should not be difficult to reserve as long as it is done well in advance - it would be more difficult to exchange/upgrade into.  There is an ongoing construction photo update (DeniseM posted link) that has great aerial views - to me it looks as if the construction on the border of the complexes is going to be completed first and should not be an issue by the end of this year - eventhough SVN has a disclaimer about this going on until late 2007.  They are moving at a good pace - the cranes are the best measure of progress.  I was told (by salesman) that the OF would be ready by Spring 2007 - others here claim differently.  MFs at the within a resort are based on sqft and not locaton.  There is an argument thread about ROFR on TUG - I stated my opinion about this (imo, it is a Resort's right to do this as stated in their contract for whatever reason they deem since they are ultimately responsible for funding-building-maintaining-administrating the resort...)


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## Jim&Martha (Mar 14, 2006)

*Westin Maui*

We were there last week.  The price for a 2 bedroom Island View at the Westin is still $44,900 and the new Marriott development for the same accomodations is $44,800. 

best, martha


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## Jim&Martha (Mar 15, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> I ended up rescinding the OF WKORV-N contract after I found TUG - and bought a resale Deluxe OF at WKORV for ~20K less.  OF WKORV is more of a true OF, and the unit is ~400sqft bigger with the same ~MFs, and we can occupy this year.     Resale OF WKORV worked better for us, although WKORV-N looked pretty nice - we had little use for StarPoints, got a bigger, less expensive unit with a ~25ft long lanai with the 1bd part, and more of a private lanai with the studio part (although it is on the side of the building in the front)
> 
> With the extra money we didn't spend - we ended up buying a unit at WSJ on eBay.
> 
> btw, a Deluxe OF WKORV just went unsold on eBay for $49.5K - we could have saved even more if we weren't bitten by the TS bug, and were a little more patient.


 Hi Robin,

Do you get the same fixed unit every time or do you just get the same view category every time?

thanks, martha


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 15, 2006)

The WKORV OF is a float unit and a float week (wk 1-50).

The WSJ is a fixed unit and a float week (wk 21-42).  However, from what I am lead to understand, the week is actually semi-fixed since (due to inventory reasons?) if the owner contacts 10-12 months out - the owner gets their unit.  I have had this verbally confirmed by both owners and SVO/SVN, yet I have not gone through the process myself (but will in June).


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