# Thanks Steamboat Bill



## jscboston (Sep 19, 2007)

Steamboat Bill,

I wanted to compliment you on your extensive posts throughout TUG. I have been a timeshare owner for about 8 years (first Sheraton and then Marriott) and have recently been considering High Country Club. Google led me to your message boards. I work in commercial real estate finance, and am very (very) analytical. Your thoughts on Destination Clubs, Condo hotels, etc really ring true, and you do a nice job articulating your thoughts in a way that is easy to follow. It is apparent that you spend a lot of time working on the site. If you are like most volunteers you probably get lots if grief and abuse, and very little appreciation. 

So I just wanted to say - Thanks for all your hard work!


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## Jestjoan (Sep 19, 2007)

Welcome to TUG. We really appreciate and respect our volunteers. You'll learn a lot and enjoy the great comradeship.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 19, 2007)

welcome to the non-traditional forum 

i agree - bill has certainly done a whole lot of amazing work here, getting the non-traditional forum started, etc. i think its fantastic that he thought to ask about its creation. i certainly never would have thought of it.

i originally joined TUG back in Sept 2006 when i learned about it on FT, to ask some really dumb newbie questions  then i happened to notice this forum this past July, and really dove in. being around for this forum also made me contribute more to the other forums, commenting on TS ive been to and many other things in the lounge etc.

a side benefit of that recent exclusive resorts event thread was getting lots more people in here too. which both spreads information on DCs, and also the existence of TUG. as DCs like HCC especially are very competitive to TS, particularly owners of multiple fairly good ones. 

i hope i dont jinx it, but i cant remember seeing any negative comments towards bill. TUG is definitely pretty friendly and low key, compared to some other forums. 

edit >
 one other thing i forgot to mention - its GREAT being able to simply discuss the market and clubs and all forums of ownership etc with such a broad spectrum of people, many of whom share an interest in these things, and a number of whom are members, or are looking to join clubs in the near future, etc. 

edit >
 weve even seen "nick@ihug.co.nz", a CEO of a DC join to respond to questions and concerns! and "Sherpa", who runs http://www.sherpareport.com (a site similar to http://www.heliumreport.com) is also a regular poster.


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## puffpuff (Sep 19, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> welcome to the non-traditional forum
> 
> i agree - bill has certainly done a whole lot of amazing work here, getting the non-traditional forum started, etc. i think its fantastic that he thought to ask about its creation. i certainly never would have thought of it.
> 
> a side benefit of that recent exclusive resorts event thread was getting lots more people in here too.


Three cheers to Bill.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2007)

Thanks for the thanks!

I immediately delete any posts that attack me and ban the user for life (just kidding)....so far there have not been any bad things posted.

I too started with timeshares (even thought I hated the entire concept of timeshares until my cousin invited me to visit him at DVC in 2000) and then I was hooked. Like everything in my life, I tend to go overboard on good things.

I am now considering selling all of my timeshares and simply focus on Destination Clubs as I really enjoy this lifestyle better.

The variety and diversity of the members on this forum make fun reading. It was only 8 months ago that I first pitched the idea of a DC forum to TUG and they (at first) did not think it would work. Now it is one of the "livelier" threads on TUG.

I am still not a huge fan of the title of the forum "Non-traditional Interval Ownership", but that was not my idea. Either way, it is the new posts and threads that "WE ALL CREATE" that make this place come alive.

Some background info - I was an extremely active poster on DISboards.com (the DVC BBS) and got banned for life because I created a controversial thread on "Why DVC members should raise their rental rates" and they thought that was price fixing. I have also been reprimanded for a few of my "spicier" posts here on TUG and hope I don't ever get banned here.

I really am not a trouble maker in real life, I just like good discussions and debate.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 19, 2007)

you got banned for life?? i think i looked at some of your old threads at one point and saw you say you got a 30 day ban, but they ended up making it permanent? jeese..

i remember i got banned for a week once at FT for being right about something when a moderator was wrong  also had lots of posts deleted. so i would just have the admin remove/mask the forums (3 IIRC) from my account. i pretty much only post in the luxury hotels forum now.

i think the forum name does make sense.. and we dont talk about _full_ ownership that much here, or should i say its not what most people are looking for? not sure DCs are _best_ categorized as interval, but it doesnt seem inaccurate.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2007)

Well...I think I was ticking off the DVC mega-fanatics when I made a few comments they did not like as I am just an average fanatic:

1. People hated me when I suggested going to the pool to get extra towels as the housekeeping service only comes twice a week. I still like my idea and that is why I have fresh towels every day!

2. People did not appreciate me advising people to try to squeeze more people into a property than it is "officially" approved for. I think said it was ok to have 5 people in a studio and it is only approved for 4.

3. I called some members "anal-retentive" when they posted that they actually vacuum and wash the dishes before they leave their unit on check-out.

4. I admitted that I am tired of hearing the cast members say "welcome home" every time I walk into the front lobby.

5. I posted many threads on why I think financing a DVC purchase at 10.75% interest is a "ripoff" and people would be financially better off if they rented instead of buying.

6. The straw that broke the camel back was when I posted a message that people that rent their points for $8pp instead of $10-12 are stupid and are actually loosing money by being a DVC member. I advised them to immediately sell and rent points from someone else. I acused them of driving down the resale prices of DVC contracts.

Well, that's it...there are probably more, but those are the highlights that come to mind. I still monitor DISboards, but I am not a poster there.


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## tomandrobin (Sep 19, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I am now considering selling all of my timeshares and simply focus on Destination Clubs as I really enjoy this lifestyle better.



Are you really going to sell your DVC?


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## tomandrobin (Sep 19, 2007)

> 1. People hated me when I suggested going to the pool to get extra towels as the housekeeping service only comes twice a week. I still like my idea and that is why I have fresh towels every day!



We do this, and why not, the towels are there to be used by the members.



> 2. People did not appreciate me advising people to try to squeeze more people into a property than it is "officially" approved for. I think said it was ok to have 5 people in a studio and it is only approved for 4.



Now we don't cram extra people in a studio. One extra person is not a big deal. Ten extra people is a bit much. 



> 3. I called some members "anal-retentive" when they posted that they actually vacuum and wash the dishes before they leave their unit on check-out.



LOL....We'll pick up our trash. Dishes, I thought that was suppose to be done by the house keeping staff.



> 4. I admitted that I am tired of hearing the cast members say "welcome home" every time I walk into the front lobby.



LOL...This statement right here is the one that led to you being Banned!



> 5. I posted many threads on why I think financing a DVC purchase at 10.75% interest is a "ripoff" and people would be financially better off if they rented instead of buying.



Disboard represents maybe 1% of DVC members. How can that be price fixing the rental market? What i don't get is that $10/pp for rental has been set in place for 8 plus years now. I think owners are too lazy to do the math for $12 or $14 a point. 



> 6. The straw that broke the camel back was when I posted a message that people that rent their points for $8pp instead of $10-12 are stupid and are actually loosing money by being a DVC member. I advised them to immediately sell and rent points from someone else. I acused them of driving down the resale prices of DVC contracts.



The truth hurts! Do the dis board moderators rent points themselves? Maybe they buy low ($8 pp) and rent high ($10-$12 pp) on the side.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Are you really going to sell your DVC?



Probably not as my ROI is about 10% per year just renting points. Then my ROI on the resale value is probably another 10%. DVC is the ONLY timeshare that people can actually make money with. This beats fixed income investing any day.

I spoke with my CM yesterday and requested to be put on the wait list for the new DVC in California that was just announced.

DVC people are the "nicest" people in the world, I just think that they are way too serious...come on....Walt Disney said, "I only hope that we don't lose sight of one thing - that it was all started by a mouse."


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## tomandrobin (Sep 19, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Probably not as my ROI is about 10% per year just renting points. Then my ROI on the resale value is probably another 10%. DVC is the ONLY timeshare that people can actually make money with. This beats fixed income investing any day.
> 
> I spoke with my CM yesterday and requested to be put on the wait list for the new DVC in California that was just announced.
> 
> DVC people are the "nicest" people in the world, I just think that they are way too serious...come on....Walt Disney said, "I only hope that we don't lose sight of one thing - that it was all started by a mouse."



I want to buy in the new resort, wife says no! After two add-ons this year, plus another Startwood timeshare. I have been put on notice by the boss...lol! Which ok by me, I am content on waiting for the rumored CRV next year. But I bet rentals for the Ca DVC will be great!


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## PerryM (Sep 19, 2007)

*SNAP!!! Another Mouseketeer bites it....*



Steamboat Bill said:


> Well...I think I was ticking off the DVC mega-fanatics when I made a few comments they did not like as I am just an average fanatic:
> 
> 1. *People hated me when I suggested going to the pool to get extra towels *as the housekeeping service only comes twice a week. I still like my idea and that is why I have fresh towels every day!
> 
> ...




Bill, wellllllllll this explains a lot - I can see where these issues could cause some Mouseketeers to eat the cheese in the mouse trap to end it all.

The only question is will the anti-Westgate folks here start to act the same?


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 19, 2007)

PerryM said:


> The only question is will the anti-Westgate folks here start to act the same?



There is ONE TUG person that is anti-Westgate and we know who that is. He refers to them as Wastegate.

I will NOT stick up for Westgate like I do for Disney as I am only familiar with the Westgate property in Park City. I LOVE that resort and The Canyons. 

I have to admit that the rest of the Westgate properties and their "poor" reputation for salespeople make me embarrassed to admit that I own a Westgate property. If it was not for the Park City property, I would probably NOT own Westgate. 

I am planning a trip for my kids school (60 rooms) to the Westgate River Ranch and will post about it next year. It looks great to visit once, but I can't imaging buying there as it is located in the middle of nowhere.


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## Transit (Sep 19, 2007)

Being banned for having a differant opinion from the popular stance is just wrong .Sometimes you need a black sheep To help see the light .Those who put a unique spin on things keep the reading interesting and and are innovators.I'm gong against the grain here in saying I HAD A GREAT VACATION AT ORLANDO WESTGATE LAKES LAST MONTH.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 20, 2007)

Here is an example of negative press from an unhappy Westgate owner.

Please visit his website.

http://www.westgateresorts.biz/

-------------------------------

OrlandoSentinel.com

Time-share, customer take fight to cyberspace

Christopher Boyd
Sentinel Staff Writer

September 20, 2007


Until Robert Beaudoin began posting online criticism of Westgate Resorts' time-share business practices, he was just another dissatisfied customer.

What has separated his online squabble from the countless others being argued in cyberspace is his domain name: www.westgateresorts.biz. Beaudoin bought the rights to use the name and insists he is doing nothing wrong.

Beaudoin's home page contains a message about the site's purpose, notes that it isn't affiliated with Westgate and invites postings from others on a variety of Westgate-related topics.

"This is just a place where people can vent," Beaudoin said.

Westgate disagrees. Last week, a lawyer for the Orlando company fired a letter to Beaudoin accusing him of violating the company's copyright and trademark protections and demanding he surrender the domain name within three days or face "available legal remedies."

"Please be advised that the mere owernship and operation of the Web site and of the domain name www.westgateresorts.biz directly infringes upon Westgate's copyright and trademark rights and violates federal and state unfair competition laws," stated the letter, written by Heidi Boyles, an attorney with the Greenspoon Marder law firm in Orlando.

No so fast, say a law professor and a cyberlaw attorney.

As long as Beaudoin is using the Web site to complain and not to profit, he is probably operating within his rights, they said.

"A gripe site is permissible, so long as they are using it only as a forum to criticize," said Elliott Zimmerman, a Broward County lawyer who specializes in legal disputes involving the Internet. "The issue is whether he is taking money. If he is using it to express his opinion, and he is not taking money, this is a legitimate use."

A. Michael Froomkin, a law professor at the University of Miami, agreed that the issue is whether Beaudoin is attempting to do business through a Web site using the Westgate name.

"From the point of view of U.S. trademark law, if you aren't selling a T-shirt, you are protected," Froomkin said. "If he is a critic and non-commercial, he is on very strong ground."

Greenspoon Marder attorney Boyles said she couldn't comment for publication.

Mark Waltrip, chief operating officer for Central Florida Investments, Westgate's parent company, said the issue is "something to be determined in court."

"We have a very strong stance that, if you are going to use our corporate name, we are going to do our best to protect our name," Waltrip said.

Beaudoin, who bought his time-share unit in 2000, says he is not trying to sell anything but would like Westgate to address his grievances.

"In general, I'm unhappy with their customer service," Beaudoin said. "This has nothing to do with making a profit. I find this a kind of David and Goliath matter."

Christopher Boyd can be reached at cboyd@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5723.

Copyright © 2007, Orlando Sentinel


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## tomandrobin (Sep 20, 2007)

Transit said:


> Being banned for having a differant opinion from the popular stance is just wrong .Sometimes you need a black sheep To help see the light .Those who put a unique spin on things keep the reading interesting and and are innovators.I'm gong against the grain here in saying I HAD A GREAT VACATION AT ORLANDO WESTGATE LAKES LAST MONTH.



Funny thing about "dis" is they will ban all the "black sheep" and thier opposing opinions. Like suggesting renters charge more then $10 pp for rent. Those posters have all seemed to find thier way over to mouseowners.com and post freely, without penalty.


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## PerryM (Sep 20, 2007)

*Faulty logic...*

If our unhappy owner thinks that he can just use the name WestgateResorts then his complaints are as faulty as his logic of names.

Why not IhateDisney.com or MarriottSucks.com 

Now if our disgruntled owner has used WastegateResorts.com then he would have been ok - unless there is a WastegateResorts somewhere.

If you own a trademark you MUST protect/defend it or you lose it.


P.S.
It's not a big deal to find unhappy timeshare owners - they sell their units at firesale prices everyday - thank you very much.


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## Steamboat Bill (Sep 20, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Funny thing about "dis" is they will ban all the "black sheep" and thier opposing opinions. Like suggesting renters charge more then $10 pp for rent. Those posters have all seemed to find thier way over to mouseowners.com and post freely, without penalty.



I have been a poster there for a while...so I will give a positive plug to this wonderful Disney BBS

www.mouseowners.com

Keep you the good work and free speech.


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## Transit (Sep 20, 2007)

It's a shame that Westgate dosen"t do more to keep customers happy.When I was  last month I stayed in a 3 bed with family who own there and the physical resort itself was very nice with plenty of activitiies.My cousin's compaints were the nickle and diming and the tremendous loss of resle value.He is a realist and just makes the best of it. As for Dis boards and mousesavers those sites are full of great info (from Disney fanatics) but I just stick with TUG most of the time because I feel it has more check and balances with a wider variaty of opinions.


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