# Bought retail....



## Mjlajl (Apr 15, 2012)

Hubby and I just went to a Wyndham timeshare Presentation this weekend and bought 105,000 points, and of course they tell you you have to buy then or there all these extra yearly fees you have to pay if you go a different time to purchase. Now after researching I am worried we are overpaying by a lot.

What are your thoughts? 

The main things we liked about the program are:
1. Flexibility of location/ time to use
2. Only fees after mortgage is paid is the maintenance fees

Anyone with insight to give would be great, I read we should have 6 days to cancel, so hoping we can decide soon.

My concerns with buying from e-bay, I want to make sure we can use the whole wyndham/rci without paying additional fees, and not sure who I am buying from.

Thanks for the help.


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## Rent_Share (Apr 15, 2012)

There is nothing included in your retail package that is worth the price diferential you were charged for retail.

*Rescind*, research and buy* resale* points based on any Advanced Reservation Priority you might want at the optiimal maintenance fess


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## Passepartout (Apr 15, 2012)

Others will chime in, but I will first say, Welcome to TUG. We're glad you found us. 

Second, and most important, rescind ASAP! You can buy a larger points package for much much less and have exactly the same benefits. Except VIP status, which I understand is worth nowhere near the price difference.

You will be able to use your resale points in exactly the same way- only you'll have more of them, won't have a mortgage, and will be able to travel more often,

So time's a wastin'. Get that rescind letter written and save yourselves thousand$! Follow the instructions and address for where to send it that can be found in your contract.

Here's a link to another thread started by another newcomer just a few days ago. Read through it and get some ideas. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168917

Jim Ricks


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## momeason (Apr 15, 2012)

Rescind and then research and buy and enjoy. I own Wyndham. After you rescind, ask lots of questions. Many Tug members will sell cheap and some offer free Wyndham contracts. 105000 is not enough points.


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## ronparise (Apr 15, 2012)

I bought a 168000 eoy contract...with  $700 down I owed over $12000...I rescinded and took that $700 and bought 385000 points with it on ebay

The points work the same

Look for an ebay seller with high positive ratings...I have my favorite and will tell you who it is if you pm me....but rescind first

Do it now,


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 15, 2012)

Save yourself a load of money and rescind TOMORROW.

I have brought a few points off ebay along with a few FIXED DEEDED WEEKs at Wyndham Resorts. Those extra fees are chump change compared to buying direct from Wyndham. And by the way, for the limited number of points you brought from them, YOU would/will have the SAME chump change fees. Fees like Reservation Transactions, Guest Certificates and Housekeeping fees don't go away til after you have brought 400-700,000 points from Wyndham (based on the new point level required for Gold VIP status).

As for what Wyndham most likely charge you for 105K in points ($15-17,000), you would save in interest NOT paid over $1800 per year for that loan - enough to pay the MFs on over 300K in resale points. That relates to 2 weeks in a 1 bdr in most resorts for PRIME season or 2 week in a 2 bdr for VALUE season. The 105K would have gotten you 1 week in a 1bdr for VALUE season.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 15, 2012)

In less than 20 minutes, you have gotten some BLUE RIBBON advice and NONE of us are trying to take even 5 cents from you. Look at the post counts for these answers - look how long we have been members - look at what we own.

You can PM any of us and we will be happy to tell you HOW much we own and how much we all enjoy our RESALE Wyndham points.


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## megan_rose5 (Apr 15, 2012)

*reseller*

That is quiet a price for a reseller, going directly from wyndham will save you some pocket change and they got some decent perks too.


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## massvacationer (Apr 15, 2012)

very simple advice:

1.  rescind

2.  research for awhile...read all you can here on TUG

3.  buy resale


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## Mjlajl (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone! Planning to figure out how to recind ASAP, but going to have to scour the contract to find that information! 

My husbands concern is that we were told old points go by a different book and the contract we have is included RCI so we could stay more places and points are on a different system, does anyone know how to tell which points I would be purchasing?


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 15, 2012)

Go with Linda!

Get that recission done tonight and be at Post Office  first thing Monday and sent certified to Vegas. Do not contact sales person,  they will just try and stall until too late to rescind. Follow instructions explicitly.  Wyndham abhors recissions. 

Read  many other posts here on  this subject.

Do the math! I think you financed at around 16% but following  is easier to understand.

Purchase price,   say $16K cash  if you hung tight for third  salesman. Figure $16K at  10% average  return on  diversified  stock investment of last 100 or so years.

That is  $1,600 a year you are losing.

Take that $1,600, buy resale for  around $1K and you have enough to pay MF  for this year.  Next year  you pay  say $600 MF you have $1K left to pay plane fares, entertainment, etc.

Plus you still have $16K in bank  for  retirement!  No brainer!


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## massvacationer (Apr 15, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> My husbands concern is that we were told old points go by a different book and the contract we have is included RCI so we could stay more places and points are on a different system, does anyone know how to tell which points I would be purchasing?




The above is sales BS

resale points work 99.5% the same (that's what I own)

Get your money back and do some reading and research

If you really want to buy retail direct from Wyndham, you can get the same deal later - after you do your research (but I bet you will conclude that resale is the way to go)


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## Rent_Share (Apr 15, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Thanks everyone! Planning to figure out how to recind ASAP, but going to have to scour the contract to find that information!
> 
> My husbands concern is that we were told old points go by a different book and the contract we have is included RCI so we could stay more places and points are on a different system, does anyone know how to tell which points I would be purchasing?


 
Wyndham timeshare salesmen LIE period


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## Rent_Share (Apr 15, 2012)

massvacationer said:


> The above is sales BS
> 
> resale points work 99.5% the same (that's what I own)


 
In what way do they function differently at a quantity less than 500,000 points


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## simpsontruckdriver (Apr 15, 2012)

That's the point... if you have 500000 retail points, you get VIP. If you have 500000 points Resale, no VIP. VIP benefits are pretty weak, most people don't care if they get those advantages.

TS


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 15, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Thanks everyone! Planning to figure out how to recind ASAP, but going to have to scour the contract to find that information!
> 
> My husbands concern is that we were told old points go by a different book and the contract we have is included RCI so we could stay more places and points are on a different system, does anyone know how to tell which points I would be purchasing?




******

"He told me resale reservations are basically worthless. He said resale reservations could be cancelled at anytime, without notice. So basically you could fly your family across country for $2000, and when you show up at the resort be turned away because a regular owner needed a room, and stole your reservation.
 He said he SAW(emphasis added) at least 5 families turned away on Easter Sunday."




To deal with salespeople you have to be armed and apply common sense.

My first question to salesman would be what were you doing hanging at the check in desk Easter watching people check in? Why weren't you scamming the warm bodies the parking pass scammers sent you?

This lie/scam has been around since the day of the great flood.
 Resale points can only be used at home resort
 Resale points cannot be used at new resorts
 Resale points can only be booked 60 days out
 Person with Developer points can bump/trump resale purchaser reservation every time
 Resale points don't get any benefits and worst rooms

Of the hundreds of posts I have read here and on Wyndham Form have never heard of the above being true.

*******

Salesperson probably told you that  you get a free RCI membership which is  blatant lie. All UDI purchases/ownerships have resort  HOA fee AND POA fee which covers RCI membership , reservation system. etc.This comes with all  UDI deeds.

Definitely need to do homework. 

Remember salesperson has to make a commision to pay  his rent. People here just want  to help you make an informed decision!

Ask salesman to show you written policy. Only reference is page 287 of Club Wymdham Directory! Will he  include in  written contract?

No need to  rush! The  last Wyndham plane is not leaving in 30 minutes.


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 15, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> In what way do they function differently at a quantity less than 500,000 points



At 300K Developer points  you get silver VIP. See pages 288-289 of Club Wyndham Directory!

Yes,  VIP benefits are of dubvious value.  Audited VOI Trust Financials show  Wyndham sales reimbursed  it  around $12 million in 2010(last year available) for providing benefits.

Best estimate of VIPs I have is  about 15%  pernament and about 5% temporary due to   2 year bonus up  sales incentive. Taking 20% of 500K UDI points owners gives about  100K VIPS  Dividing this into $12 million  gives about $120 per VIP.  Do I believe , no way? If I book 200K reservation  for 150K points the 50K points at $5.00/1,000 equals $250.

Isn't  it  great we have three dedicated  Wyndham executives running Trust and looking out for our best interests. See Bill Spearman article in April 2010 Timesharing Today for  the gory details.

I wonder, does USA Today give resort  news papers  for VIPs or do they (HOA) just eat that expense, albeit a small one?


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## Passepartout (Apr 15, 2012)

OP, once you buy resale points, and they are registered in your account, they are exactly the same as any points you'd bought from Wyndham. The reservations people have no way of knowing who bought resale, and all Wyndham accounts get the included RCI membership, so tell your Husband that you can book any of those RCI vacations the same as if you'd kept the retail purchase.

Only difference is you'll pay less for the whole cost than just your interest payment on the retail purchase.

Jim


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## ESCHWEGE (Apr 15, 2012)

*Recind*

If I remember correctly you have seven days from the day you signed the contract.  Call Wyndham:

By Telephone

Call us at 1-800-251-8736 within the US and Canada.



Press 2 for Financial Services and Title/Ownership Changes

Financial Services: Monday through Friday 8 a.m. - 7 p.m. ET

Title: Monday through Friday 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. ET

(except for major holidays) 

They can see your account by the contract #


Ask for the Fax # to send your cancellation too, and just give a reason i.e. second thoughts salesman too pushy whatever. You can Fax it I did and make sure you have the confirmation that the fax was received. Then Follow up the next day asking about your Fax and the status of your cancellation. 

Resale is the way to go.  I made this mistake and I just barely caught myself in time.  Just get you request faxed in before midnight of that last day.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 15, 2012)

ESCHWEGE said:


> If I remember correctly you have seven days from the day you signed the contract.  Call Wyndham:
> 
> ..... <CLIP>   .....Ask for the Fax # to send your cancellation too and just give a reason..i.e. second thoughts salesman too pushy whatever..
> 
> Resale is the way to go.  I made this mistake and I just barely caught myself in time.  Just get you request faxed in before midnight of that last day.



*What are you recommending --- do YOU WORK for Wyndham?* To rescind LEGALLY and where Wyndham MUST HONOR your cancellation, is what is DETAILED in the original contract and MUST be sent via CERTIFIED MAIL to the address in the paperwork. NOT FAXED, NOT via A PHONE CALL, NOT via a note stuck under or on the DOOR, not by mental telepathy ...

In Writing via Certified Mail - as written in your contract to that address. All you have to say is "I am exercising my right to rescinding the contract #12312345 signed on xx/yy/zzzz. Please REFUND all monies immediately and cancel the loan application for this purchase."

Keep a copy for yourself and the little GREEN Certified Mail receipt that the post office will stamp.

I would also add, "Do NOT CALL ME to ask why or to talk me out of this decision to cancel this contract.".

If you and your husband BOTH signed this paperwork, you MUST BOTH sign this cancellation notice.


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## ronparise (Apr 15, 2012)

Somewhere in the pile of paper you have is a purchase  and sale agreement...above the signature block, probably in bold lettering is the right of rescission statement and directions.


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## ronparise (Apr 15, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Thanks everyone! Planning to figure out how to recind ASAP, but going to have to scour the contract to find that information!
> 
> My husbands concern is that we were told old points go by a different book and the contract we have is included RCI so we could stay more places and points are on a different system, does anyone know how to tell which points I would be purchasing?



Points are points..they use the same book in the same system, you use the same phone numbers and websites to make reservations and for your fees you get the same RCI account included

If you doubt this ok but you should still rescind....If it turns out we are all wrong just go back and buy from that wonderful salesman...the "deal" they offered you will still be available.

You came here because you had second thoughts...listen to that inner voice and listen to us..rescind and put that mortgage money into your kids college fund


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## massvacationer (Apr 15, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> In what way do they function differently at a quantity less than 500,000 points



Plus Partners:   you get this with a retail purchase and not with a resale purchase  (you can use points for other stuff like hotels and cruises and you can use the RCI nightly stay feature......IMO these are obviously not worth buying retail)


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## Mjlajl (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you for posting what the letter should include. I found the area in my contact that says I can send a letter, but it didn't state what the letter should say so this helps!! And I didn't think to have both of us sign it! Thanks again for your help, it is saving us a lot of money!!



vacationhopeful said:


> *What are you recommending --- do YOU WORK for Wyndham?* To rescind LEGALLY and where Wyndham MUST HONOR your cancellation, is what is DETAILED in the original contract and MUST be sent via CERTIFIED MAIL to the address in the paperwork. NOT FAXED, NOT via A PHONE CALL, NOT via a note stuck under or on the DOOR, not by mental telepathy ...
> 
> In Writing via Certified Mail - as written in your contract to that address. All you have to say is "I am exercising my right to rescinding the contract #12312345 signed on xx/yy/zzzz. Please REFUND all monies immediately and cancel the loan application for this purchase."
> 
> ...


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## rrlongwell (Apr 15, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Thank you for posting what the letter should include. I found the area in my contact that says I can send a letter, but it didn't state what the letter should say so this helps!! And I didn't think to have both of us sign it! Thanks again for your help, it is saving us a lot of money!!



Depends on your finacial situation.  If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years.  I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status.  I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners.  Make you own decision.  Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers.  I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems.  You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.

Here are a few threads of many that you might want to review.  The first one is of particular interest.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018


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## drbeetee (Apr 15, 2012)

*3 words*

Rescind, Rescind, Rescind.  I have been looking for some deals in the Wyndham system, and found some great ones through resale.  I suggest do some research take some great advice from other Tuggers who are hear to help.  My yearly maintenance fees are going to be around $780 bucks.  I bought a total of 147,000 points for less than the cost of 1 years maintenance fees.  I may work as a financial planner, but it doesn't take my credentials to figure out that is a MUCH better deal than Retail!  There are plenty of deals to be had, if you become and educated consumer about what you are purchasing.  I would Rescind Tomorrow.  I'm new and still learning the whole process myself, so take this unanimous advice RESCIND!


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## timeos2 (Apr 15, 2012)

It's very simple really. Virtually no timeshare or system is worth what the sellers ask retail. That goes 4+ times over for Wyndham as what you pay $1 for is worth, after your rescind period ends, $.02 or less - maybe zero.  Why would you want to suffer a 98%+ loss of your principle paid within days of purchase? Especially when YOU can easily buy the same thing - maybe a better choice of points/home resort - for that $.02 or less.  The only value is in use - the value exists only in resale.  Paying retail simply means you'll regret it and be yet another seller looking to dump for little or nothing what cost you tens of thousands. 

Rescind while you can &, if you like what you saw (and we agree Wyndham is a great system - although we now think it's best enjoyed through rental not ownership) go ahead & buy resale or rent & enjoy.  You won't regret those choices but it's virtually guaranteed you'd regret keeping a retail purchase. 

Good luck - don't make an expensive mistake you can easily avoid.


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## Rent_Share (Apr 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Depends on your finacial situation. If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years. I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status. I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners. Make you own decision. Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers. I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems. You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.


 

Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda, reads what anybody posts from any encounter and reposts it as fact

The posters here are users not resellers


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## rrlongwell (Apr 15, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda
> 
> The posters here are users not resellers



Thanks for the attack post.  I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer.  I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S.  The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.

The following are some of the links that should be reviewed.  The first one is of particularly interesting.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018


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## timeos2 (Apr 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Depends on your finacial situation.  If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years.  I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status.  I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners.  Make you own decision.  Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers.  I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems.  You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.



Unless they plan to live at least two full lifetimes each they would NEVER recover - I mean just break even, not get any real benefit or value - out of the THOUSANDS (not like a few hundred that maybe the case could be made for) and even that is if the "benefits" today were still in place & at the same level as now (and, as we all know, there is ZERO guarantee that any VIP benefit or level will be there tomorrow - forget a year or ten from now). But the money (and interest if financed - another mistake with a timeshare) is real, guaranteed to Wyndham & REALLY GONE. I'm sure they have better uses for thousands of dollars than padding Wyndham's sales pockets with no benefit to them. 

Recommending anyone that didn't already fall (& pay for) retail Wyndham is a bad thing and cannot be justified by the numbers.  They just don't work. It's easy to justify resale (or even better - renting) and that's the bottom line. Retail = ripoff.  End of short story.  Even bringing up VIP is falling into the sales doublespeak trap meant to confuse. Ignore it, and all retail purchases, is the best advice there is.


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## Rent_Share (Apr 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Thanks for the attack post. I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer. I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S. The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.


 

Using that as an argument not to properly rescind and to continue with a worthless contract is an an example of you applying a single statement to all transactions, which is the issue I have with your posts


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## rrlongwell (Apr 15, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Using that as an argument not to properly rescind and to continue with a worthless contract is an an example of you applying a single statement to all transactions, which is the issue I have with your posts



Sounds like a personal problem to me.  Time to get back to the orginal poster.


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## Sandi Bo (Apr 15, 2012)

IMO, one of the hardest pills to swallow, is how little resale value timeshares have. What other product can you purchase for $20,000 and 1 week later (when your rescind period is over) you have something with a resale value of $1 (see ebay sales).


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 16, 2012)

Personally, I cannot see any rationale that justifies paying the huge price charged by the developer so I'm 100% in support of the advice to rescind and then do further research if you're seriously interested in getting involved in TS ownership.


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Depends on your finacial situation.  If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years.  I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status.  I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners.  Make you own decision.  Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers.  I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems.  You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.
> 
> Here are a few threads of many that you might want to review.  The first one is of particular interest.
> 
> ...



I fail to see how the problems in the three threads cited relate to the discussion at hand, ie should I pay Wyndhams retail prices, or should I buy on the secondary market

There my be no agenda here but it is true that misery loves company


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## DrBopp (Apr 16, 2012)

*Retail vs Resale*



Mjlajl said:


> Hubby and I just went to a Wyndham timeshare Presentation this weekend and bought 105,000 points, and of course they tell you you have to buy then or there all these extra yearly fees you have to pay if you go a different time to purchase. Now after researching I am worried we are overpaying by a lot.
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> ...


 If you don't believe what people are telling you about retail vs resale, then spend the $15,000 to $20,000 you have committed to and if you don't regret it somewhere down the the line,  then retail was perfect for you. On the other hand, if you rescind now, purchase resale for $1-$1,000 for the same timeshare or more, and find that it is for you, then you have saved $15,000 +. Either way, you can always buy retail later. The main thing is to be happy with what you buy. I'm happy with what I bought, 480000 points for under $1000, but you may be different. Whatever your comfort level is with spending YOUR money, then be comfortable. But the only intentions here on this board is to help you make the best decision you can, give your an honest evaluation of your choices. But, it's your choice, your money and your satisfaction. You need to be happy with your choices. We all here are pretty happy with what we have. We wish to help you attain that same level. Good Luck!

Gordon


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## ESCHWEGE (Apr 16, 2012)

I am telling you what I had to do because I found out about this on the last day.  I did not have the time to go to the post office so I faxed it and yes they did except it.  That is why I said keep the fax receipt and call the following day, so that there is some kind of paper trail.


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## Passepartout (Apr 16, 2012)

ESCHWEGE said:


> I am telling you what I had to do because I found out about this on the last day.  I did not have the time to go to the post office so I faxed it and yes they did except it.  That is why I said keep the fax receipt and call the following day, so that there is some kind of paper trail.



If this is accurate, and it turns out that you are released from your contract, thank your lucky stars. They didn't HAVE to honor it. By law, a postmark on your rescission letter from the final day of rescission or earlier, is all that they have to honor.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim Ricks


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 16, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Thank you for posting what the letter should include. I found the area in my contact that says I can send a letter, but it didn't state what the letter should say so this helps!! And I didn't think to have both of us sign it! Thanks again for your help, it is saving us a lot of money!!



It is my understanding based on signing legal  documents  how one signs is how original document was executed.

If Joe  OR   Mary either can sign

If Joe  AND Mary  both have to sign

Since Wyndham  abhors  recissions   both should sign to be  safe

The poster here who faxed  needs to say some  "Hail Marys"

Virtually all the other posts I have read where one did not follow  rules explictly got zapped.

Also, recission period is a state thingy and I have seen variances  from 3 business days to  ten elapsed days.

Apparently Wyndham has changed  its policy. Only recission I did was   over  ten years ago. It mandated their form had to be signed  and notarized by all parties and ALL  materials be returned in good condition!


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> If this is accurate, and it turns out that you are released from your contract, thank your lucky stars. They didn't HAVE to honor it. By law, a postmark on your rescission letter from the final day of rescission or earlier, is all that they have to honor.
> 
> Welcome to TUG!
> 
> Jim Ricks



Jim

The department at Wyndham that handles rescissions is not nearly as particular about the form a rescission letter takes as you might  think

When I rescinded, I sent a letter, certified mail, and a fax and an email. and I followed up with phone calls.

The process was well underway by the time they got the certified letter. They began work on the strength of the email or fax. They did not wait for the certified mail.  A fax does have a date stamp as does an email so I think thats enough

I am not suggesting that anyone rely on my experience and wait until the last minute and send a fax, but my experience was similar to ESCHWEGE's; a fax did work

It is my belief that this department in Wyndham has two functions: they process rescissions they dont try to save sales...and by doing their job properly and without issue they protect Wyndham from being sued for their salesman's lies. I didnt experience any resistance to my rescission request nor did I get any follow up calls from sales, trying to change my mind... they did their work quickly and I had my refund check quickly


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## Passepartout (Apr 16, 2012)

Ron, That's good to know. Some TS developers are not as consumer friendly (certain Mexican outfits come to mind) as you found Wyndham. It's still good to have all one's ducks lined up when using the strength of law to assert your rights. Some folks just automatically get their backs up when law is quoted.

Jim


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## Mjlajl (Apr 16, 2012)

Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?


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## scootr5 (Apr 16, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?



To be on the safe side, send everything they gave you back.


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## Passepartout (Apr 16, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?



I can't remember anyone ever saying that they were asked for them or that the return of anything held up the rescission. One guy did say that he had been charged for a Mexican buffet breakfast, but that was it.

If it's convenient, drop 'em off (after hours), but if not, I'd keep the stuff until asked for it.

Jim


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 16, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> It is my understanding based on signing legal  documents  how one signs is how original document was executed.
> 
> If Joe  OR   Mary either can sign
> 
> ...



Considering thousands at  stake I would spring for $10-$15 postage!

Also, if on credit card would  notify  this transaction is void!


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## vckempson (Apr 16, 2012)

Mjlajl said:


> Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?



Put the books aside and don't send them back unless required in your contract.  BTW, anyone, and I mean ANYONE who suggests that you shouldn't rescind is tainted by a need to justify their past mistakes of buying retail.  No reasons exist to makeing it worthwhile to pay full retail price to Wyndham... NONE!  

Various loopholes existed years ago, (some still now) that allow you to get to VIP status without paying full retail.  That's harder and harder to do.  VIP status is NOT worth the money if you have to pay full retail to get there. 

BTW, I own 330,000 points, all purchased resale for way less than $1,000.  We've been on six or seven trips so far and the points work exactly the same as retail points when booking, checking in and staying at the resorts.


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 16, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Ron, That's good to know. Some TS developers are not as consumer friendly (certain Mexican outfits come to mind) as you found Wyndham. It's still good to have all one's ducks lined up when using the strength of law to assert your rights. Some folks just automatically get their backs up when law is quoted.
> 
> Jim



Wow "consumer friendly" and "Wyndham" in the same sentence?  How can that be???


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## ronparise (Apr 16, 2012)

Timeshare Von said:


> Wow "consumer friendly" and "Wyndham" in the same sentence?  How can that be???



Just to be clear...I didnt say consumer friendly

I just think that the rescission dept wants to avoid being sued.


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 16, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rent_Share
Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda

The posters here are users not resellers 

Thanks for the attack post. I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer. I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S. The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.

The following are some of the links that should be reviewed. The first one is of particularly interesting.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018

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Last edited by rrlongwell : April 15, 2012 at 09:21 PM.  




"In my opinion, a way of phrasing the above more to Wyndham's liking would be to observe the rental portion is of growing significance to the profitability of Wyndham Worldwide and that organizational changes need to made to reconizing the increasing role of the rental related activities.*********** Have fun, it took me forever and a day to get all of the problems with my account resolved when I took over my mother's and step fathers Wyndham timeshares relating to Wyndham percentant insistance on taking back some or all of my Club Wyndham Plus timeshares and going into Club Wyndham Access instead.********* It is not real surprising to me that this effort is not limited to direct purchase/inherited timeshares, but also includes the re-sale buyers."


In my opionion, the driving intent of Wyndham is create new developer sales into the Club Wyndham Access program where Club Wyndham Access owns the deeds and Wyndham can take over the use rights at various points in time for the for their own uses. If I am right, this would primarily affect re-sale owners, UDI owners, fixed week owners, converted week owner etc.

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RR:

If you do not have an agenda, then maybe it is paranoia!


I am not aware of any unindicted co-conspirators or clicks

It is differences of opinion and perspectives that make Forums like this valuable. One would expect disagreement but not feel they are being attacked.

However, when one relies on Wyndham salespeople and rumors they are going to end up in deep shit!

Like other poster I fail to see the relevance of above referenced  posts to this thread! 


In the real world of e-bay resale where you have original owner, post card guy, buyer, Title Company, County Clerk, Wyndham Deeding,  post office, etc.  all involved it is amazing more problems do not arise as these are all humans who do make mistakes. Given Wyndham hates resales as they view it as a lost sale when in reality many resale buyers could not come up with $15K, $25K whatever. Likewise, some people simply cannot pay MF. Until they sell and someone starts paying MF all the resort owners share this loss/extra burden plus POA.


After reading posts on www.wyndsham.com I hope you understand VIP benefits can and will be exterminated.

The math is simple, $50K squandered on basic VIP is vaporized when recission period expires!. If left in diversified no load, low operating fee  mutual fund like Vanguard 500 or Total Market Index over a long period should return 9-10% or around $5K a year. If not, maybe we should start learning a second language and/or buying North Korea war bonds!

With $5K earnings I could rent 1,000,000 points at $500/ 100,000 points. This is 3 two BR Presidentials at BC and change. My 300K points will get me two Deluxe 1 BRs and change .If I maxed out Platinum owners VIP discounts I could theoritically end up with  around 2 million points while my basic VIP would get me around 400K. I think a fifth grader would easily understand this math! Of course , I still have my $50K to supplemet retirement
and provide a nice reserve fund.

Your post indicates that even a Platnium VIP owner, you got screwed by deeding operation. I have to admit it is beyond my comprehension how deeding can force one to go to sales as the standard sales pitch and actually written in Deed is one can use, rent, will to heirs, etc. This deeded right cannot be changed. Of course,  if one owns time shares in several states and has not had an estate planning attorney address say using a Living Trust then problems are guaranteed! It would make more sense to me for Deeding to screw over big resale buyers.


My original purchase took place at Branson, MO and it took two years to get a deed. Seems mighty Wyndham told Taney County Clerk she had to accept their deed form. Little did they realize the power a Southern politican/bureaucrat wields and finally came around.


Yes, I like several posters here are VIPs. Unfortunatelty, I  did not have the benefit of this Forum and other Internet postings and there were no $1.00 e-bay sales  eleven  years ago. Indeed I think it is great when poster lists holdings so one has a clue  where  his biases might lie or is  it lay?


I have followed the olde make lemonade approach and learned how to use Wyndham/RCI to my benefit, especially the olde RCI 28K deposits. I have taken over 60 weeks of vacation in one and two and a couple three BRs and figuring MF of $1,500 a year and amortizing cost of VIP over 10 years have spent less than $800 a week for lodging. However, I paid about 1 /2 what VIP is going for today and I am retired so if a bargain/cancellation, cancel and rebook pops up all I have to do is call cat sitter who also runs a car service and have her haul me out to DIA.


After catching saleperson in third or so lie I have had them disappear and some one rush me to gifting before other potential victims hear our heated discussion , but never throwed off propetry. Sales just rents some space and has no authority over general common area much less my unit!


Hey, kick back, hang loose, have a cold one, book that dream vacation , read about Don Quixote and stay away from those owner updates. Let Ron and myself rattle their cages.



Check out the following adventures of Don Quixote. Could attending too many owner updates be equated with reading too many chivalric novels and tilting windmills????


Don Quixote ( /ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/; Spanish: [ˈdoŋ kiˈxote] ( listen)), fully titled The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha (Spanish: El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de la Mancha), is a novel written by Miguel de Cervantes. The novel follows the adventures of Alonso Quijano, who reads too many chivalric novels, and sets out to revive chivalry under the name of Don Quixote. He recruits a simple farmer, Sancho Panza as his squire, who frequently deals with Don Quixote's rhetorical orations on antiquated knighthood with a unique Earthy wit. He is met by the world as it is, initiating themes like Intertextuality, Realism, Metatheatre and Literary Representation.

Published in two volumes a decade apart, in 1605 and 1615, Don Quixote is considered the most influential work of literature from the Spanish Golden Age and the entire Spanish literary canon. As a founding work of modern Western literature, and one of the earliest canonical novels, it regularly appears high on lists of the greatest works of fiction ever published. In one such list, Don Quixote was cited as the "best literary work ever written".


The First Sally

Alonso Quijano, the protagonist of the novel, is a retired country gentleman nearing fifty years of age, living in an unnamed section of La Mancha with his niece and housekeeper. While mostly a rational man of sound reason, his reading of books of chivalry in excess has had a profound effect on him, leading to the distortion of his perception and the wavering of his mental faculties. In essence, he believes every word of these books of chivalry to be true though, for the most part, the content of these books is clearly fiction. Otherwise, his wits, in regards to everything other than chivalry, are intact. He decides to go out as a knight-errant in search of adventure. He dons an old suit of armour, renames himself "Don Quixote de la Mancha," and names his skinny horse "Rocinante". He designates a neighboring farm girl, as his lady love, renaming her Dulcinea del Toboso, while she knows nothing about this.

He sets out in the early morning and ends up at an inn, which he believes to be a castle. He asks the innkeeper, whom he thinks to be the lord of the castle, to dub him a knight. He spends the night holding vigil over his armor, where he becomes involved in a fight with muleteers who try to remove his armor from the horse trough so that they can water their mules. The innkeeper then dubs him a knight to be rid of him, and sends him on his way. Don Quixote next "frees" a young boy who is tied to a tree and beaten by his master by making his master swear on the chivalric code treat the boy fairly. The boy's beating is continued as soon as Quixote leaves. Don Quixote has a run-in with traders from Toledo, who "insult" the imaginary Dulcinea, one of whom severely beats Don Quixote and leaves him on the side of the road. Don Quixote is found and returned to his home by a neighboring peasant.



The Second Sally

While Don Quixote is unconscious in his bed, his niece, the housekeeper, the parish curate, and the local barber secretly burn most of the books of chivalry, and seal up his library pretending that a magician has carried it off. After a short period of feigning health, Don Quixote approaches his neighbor, Sancho Panza, and asks him to be his squire, promising him governorship of an island. The uneducated Sancho agrees, and the pair sneak off in the early dawn. It is here that their series of famous adventures begin, starting with Don Quixote's attack on windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. The two next encounter a group of friars accompanying a lady in a carriage. They are heavily cloaked, as is the lady, to protect themselves from the hot climate and dust on the road. Don Quixote takes the friars to be enchanters who hold the lady captive. He knocks a friar from his horse, and is immediately challenged by an armed Basque travelling with the company. As he has no shield, the Basque uses a pillow to protect himself, which saves him when Don Quixote strikes him. The combat ends with the lady leaving her carriage and demanding those travel with her to "surrender".

The Pastoral Wanderings

Sancho and Don Quixote go on, and fall in with a group of goatherds. Don Quixote tells Sancho and the goatherds about the "Golden Age" of man, reminiscent of both Ovid and the later Rousseau in which property does not exist, and men live in peace. The goatherds invite the Knight and Sancho to the funeral of Grisóstomo, once a student who left his studies to become a shepherd after reading Pastoral novels, seeking the shepherdess Marcela. At the funeral Marcela appears, delivering a long speech vindicating herself from the bitter verses written about her by Grisóstomo, claiming her own autonomy and freedom from expectations put on her by Pastoral clichés. She disappears into the woods, and Don Quixote and Sancho follow. Ultimately giving up, the two stop and dismount by a pond to rest. Some Galicians arrive to water their ponies, and Rocinante attempts to mate with them. The Galicians hit Rocinante with clubs to dissuade him, which Don Quixote takes as a threat and runs to defend Rocinante. The Galicians beat Don Quixote and Sancho leaving them in great pain.

The Adventures with Cardenio and Dorotea

After leaving the prisoners, The Knight and Sancho wander into the Sierra Morena, and there encounter the dejected Cardenio. Cardenio relates the first part of his story, in which he falls deeply in love with his childhood friend Luscinda, and is hired as the companion to the Duke's son, putting leading to his friendship with the Duke's younger son, Don Fernando. Cardenio confides in Don Fernando his love for Luscinda and the delays in their engagement, caused by Cardenio's desire to keep with tradition. After reading Cardenio's poems praising Luscinda, Don Fernando falls in love with her. Don Quixote interrupts when Cardenio suggests that his beloved may have become unfaithful after the formulaic stories of spurned lovers in Chivalric novels.





Don Quixote de la Mancha and Sancho Panza, 1863, by Gustave Doré 
In the course of their travels, the protagonists meet innkeepers, prostitutes, goatherds, soldiers, priests, escaped convicts, and scorned lovers. These encounters are magnified by Don Quixote’s imagination into chivalrous quests. Don Quixote’s tendency to intervene violently in matters which do not concern him, and his habit of not paying his debts, result in many privations, injuries, and humiliations (with Sancho often getting the worst of it). Finally, Don Quixote is persuaded to return to his home village. The author hints that there was a third quest, but says that records of it have been lost.


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## rrlongwell (Apr 16, 2012)

pacodemountainside ... RR:  If you do not have an agenda said:
			
		

> Thank you for sharing that your re-sale contract purchase had problems with Wyndham.  I am sorry to hear that it took two years to get a deed.  Also, thank-you for the attack post.  It appears I had a similar problem.  In my case, I had to hire a attorney/closing company that Title picked as a condition of deed transfer.  I would have to pay them.  This was the timeshare(s) coming from the Estate.  Like in your case, that did not happen.  Alas, the problems that need to be overcome when ownership changes occur that are not bought as a new timeshare purchase directly from Wyndham.  Unfortantly, I suspect most re-sale buyers, or other attempting to do ownership changes do not have the benifit of a Southern politician to make the transfer go through.  In my case, it was the help of the Central Flordia BBB, they do great work.


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## scootr5 (Apr 16, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Thank you for sharing that your re-sale contract purchase had problems with Wyndham.  I am sorry to hear that it took two years to get a deed.  Also, thank-you for the attack post.  It appears I had a similar problem.  In my case, I had to hire a attorney/closing company that Title picked as a condition of deed transfer.  I would have to pay them.  This was the timeshare(s) coming from the Estate.  Like in your case, that did not happen.  Alas, the problems that need to be overcome when ownership changes occur that are not bought as a new timeshare purchase directly from Wyndham.



Maybe I'm missing something, but I think that was his original developer purchase and not resale.


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## vckempson (Apr 16, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Also, thank-you for the attack post. .



You do get caught with a lot of trouble aimed in your direction, don't you?  Wyndham tries to throw you out and take your deeds away from you.  You can't get deeds transferred properly.  Here on Tug you constantly have "attack posts" thrown your way.   Have you considered that these troubles might be brought on by yourself?  Maybe one of the following two things is going on.

1.  Your behavior invites trouble.  With Wyndham, at least, you seem quite happy to return to the wolf's den over, and over, and over.  

2.  Your trouble isn't really trouble, but only a misperception of attacking behavior.  At Wyndham, you seem to take everything quite literally as the gospel truth and here continue to characterize posts as attacking when it's just a difference of opinion.  

Out of all that I've read about your squirrely issues, the only common denominator in all your troubles and attacks seems to be... well, you.  Maybe some self assessment might be in order.    While I'm sure you'll take this as another "attack post", it's not.  It's food for thought to think about your part in all your ongoing problems.


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## rrlongwell (Apr 16, 2012)

vckempson said:


> You do get caught with a lot of trouble aimed in your direction, don't you?  Wyndham tries to throw you out and take your deeds away from you.  You can't get deeds transferred properly.  Here on Tug you constantly have "attack posts" thrown your way.   Have you considered that these troubles might be brought on by yourself?  Maybe one of the following two things is going on.
> 
> 1.  Your behavior invites trouble.  With Wyndham, at least, you seem quite happy to return to the wolf's den over, and over, and over.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the attack post.


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## Cheryl20772 (Apr 16, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Depends on your finacial situation.  If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years.  I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status.



They lose nothing by rescinding and gain time to make an informed decision about making such a large purchase.

Most of us would never make such a large purchase without looking at all angles of it and thinking it over first.  Most of those coming here saying they just signed a contract are confused and really have no idea what they are buying.  How can they know if they want VIP if they don't understand what it is?  Many have been outright misrepresented to in the sales room.  Let them at least study the member directory and learn how the system works and what it costs over time (and how difficult it can be to sell later on) before they jump into a developer purchase.


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## Free2Roam (Apr 17, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> They lose nothing by rescinding and gain time to make an informed decision about making such a large purchase.
> 
> Most of us would never make such a large purchase without looking at all angles of it and thinking it over first.  Most of those coming here saying they just signed a contract are confused and really have no idea what they are buying.  How can they know if they want VIP if they don't understand what it is?  Many have been outright misrepresented to in the sales room.  Let them at least study the member directory and learn how the system works and what it costs over time (and how difficult it can be to sell later on) before they jump into a developer purchase.



Excellent advice neighbor!


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## Cheryl20772 (Apr 17, 2012)

> You do get caught...  Here on Tug you constantly ...   Have you considered ...
> 
> 1.  Your behavior ...
> 
> ...



Such a message can only be interpreted as an "attack".  It's an example of "ad hominem" rather than polite discourse and contributes little to the conversation.


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## Rent_Share (Apr 17, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Such a message can only be interpreted as an "attack". It's an example of "ad hominem" rather than polite discourse and contributes little to the conversation.


 

This is an attack



> "Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda, reads what anybody posts from any encounter and reposts it as fact" by RentShare


 
You shortened the quotes from vckempson who articulated what was wrong with rwrongwell's postings


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## rrlongwell (Apr 17, 2012)

vckempson said:


> ... Here on Tug you constantly have "attack posts" thrown your way ...



Attack posts through TUG appears just to be a way of life for those that do not support the TUG "Click".  My guess it is more attributable to the inherent business competion between Wyndham (both re-sale and rental) and the re-seller and renters that participate on this board.  If anyone is interested in who the Tug Click group is, just review to the boards to see the screen names of those doing the attacking.


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## amycurl (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the word is "clique." This has been driving me crazy in the posts about this subject lately.  

I don't have a dog in this fight, except as someone who doesn't like to see the language abused.


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## scootr5 (Apr 17, 2012)

amycurl said:


> I'm pretty sure the word is "clique." This has been driving me crazy in the posts about this subject lately.



That's correct, but I was hesitant to point it out earlier....


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## Passepartout (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. Is it 'perk', or 'perq' or 'perque'? Referring of course to the short form of 'perquisite'. 

Jim


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## amycurl (Apr 17, 2012)

Based on this:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/perquisite
both perq and perk are correct.

Yet, only clique refers to a group of people. Click, as a noun, can mean three or four different things, but none of them mean the same thing as clique:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/click

English is a funny, funny thing, especially when one spends quite a bit of one's day explaining rules like this to an inquisitive five-year-old. *shifty eyes*


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## rrlongwell (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice to see TUG keeps reaching new lows.  Not only personal attack posts fair game but personel ridicule.


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## scootr5 (Apr 17, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Nice to see TUG keeps reaching new lows.  Not only personal attack posts fair game but personel ridicule.



I don't think anyone was intending to ridicule you, Amy was only trying to point out (in a polite way) the correct spelling of a word you've used several times in the last few days on the forum. After that, there are a couple of humorous observations on the intricacies and quirks of the English language.


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## rrlongwell (Apr 17, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> I don't think anyone was intending to ridicule you, Amy was only trying to point out (in a polite way) the correct spelling of a word you've used several times in the last few days on the forum. After that, there are a couple of humorous observations on the intricacies and quirks of the English language.



Like I said - personal ridical, those that do not follow TUG company line great some real bad treatment.  Does not do much to encourge open discussion, I guess saying anything not in accordance with the "Company Line" makes it OK.  Sometimes I wonder what the difference is between the Wyndham staff and the described posters.  I think I just figured it out, the sales staff are better mannered and more accurate.  For those that are in the timeshare business, maybe, if they work hard enough and long enough, they could get up to a "F" grade for their business related activities.


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## ledaga (Apr 17, 2012)

The sales staff definitely not well mannered.  They are probably the worst sales people I have seen in my life.  Wyndham is great except for their sales staff, but they bring in money to fill the coffers.  Everyone needs to be honest about what you are getting and what you are paying for and stop the bickering.


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