# Use Year for Borrowed Points After Cancellation of Reservation



## jeff76543 (Sep 29, 2015)

I haven't been able to find a clear answer for this question in the various threads or in the sticky on Destination Club Points.

I borrowed points from 2016 to make a reservation in 2015 inside the 60 day window.  I called Marriott to see about cancelling 1 day of the reservation (at Marbella) and changing it, for the same day in 2015 [also in the 60 day window], to a hotel (in Granada, Spain) that is in the Explorer Collection.

They said that I could do this with different points that I would borrow from 2016, but that the cancelled points that had been borrowed to 2015 could no longer be used in 2015 and that they would be placed in a holding account for the 2016 use year.

I told the Customer Service Representative that I thought this was incorrect and she transferred me to a supervisor.  I read the supervisor the rules that are in the MVC website and told her that I thought they specifically allowed use of the holding points during the year to which they had been borrowed.  She said that she thought that I was wrong, but she couldn't find anything in writing that contradicted what I said.  She said that she had to check her documentation.

I'm waiting for her to call back with a more definitive answer -- it's already been two hours.

Does anyone know what the rule is?  Have any of you had experience with this situation?


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## GregT (Sep 29, 2015)

jeff76543 said:


> I haven't been able to find a clear answer for this question in the various threads or in the sticky on Destination Club Points.
> 
> I borrowed points from 2016 to make a reservation in 2015 inside the 60 day window.  I called Marriott to see about cancelling 1 day of the reservation (at Marbella) and changing it, for the same day in 2015 [also in the 60 day window], to a hotel (in Granada, Spain) that is in the Explorer Collection.
> 
> ...



I don't have any experience with this, but I also thought that the borrowed points would now be restricted in the new (borrowed) usage year, and would not return to their original 2016 (now restricted) usage.

Please let us know how it ultimately works out, that is interesting.

Best,

Greg


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## Fasttr (Sep 29, 2015)

Some excerpts of the Exchange docs quoted below.  Bolding is mine.  



> Cancellations and No-Shows.
> 1. If a Member wishes to cancel or release a confirmed reservation of a Use Period, and Exchange Company receives written cancellation (or other means of verifiable communication acceptable to Exchange Company) at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply, and such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member for further use during that Use Year (*or if borrowed Exchange Points, for use prior to the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed*); provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.
> 
> 2. If Exchange Company receives written cancellation sixty (60) days or less prior to the first day of a confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply; however, such cancellation will result in assignment of the related Exchange Points, *including borrowed Exchange Points, to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures* provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will not be restored and will be forfeited by the Member. Borrowed Exchange Points in a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed.






> Holding Account means an account established for purposes of depositing Exchange Points that are restored to a Member after the cancellation or modification of a confirmed reservation. Exchange Points deposited in a Member’s Holding Account shall be available for further use during that same Use Year, but the further use of such restored Exchange Points shall only be confirmed by Exchange Company for Use Periods beginning no more than sixty (60) days after the date of the request, subject to availability, or other Special Benefits as may be made available for such purposes by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Points deposited in a Holding Account may not be transferred to other Members, banked for future use, or used for wait list requests. *Borrowed Exchange Points deposited into a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed*.


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## jeff76543 (Sep 29, 2015)

Hi Fasttr,

Thank you for the references.  The terminology of the Exchange Documents, themselves, is not totally clear.  It's true that the rule states that "*Borrowed Exchange Points deposited into a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed*" -- in my case no later than December 2016 -- but it does not state that they can't be used in the year to which they were borrowed (in my case, 2015).

I have a feeling, however, that when the supervisor contacts me (hopefully this will happen), she will probably cite the passages that you posted.

I'll update TUG.


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## jeff76543 (Sep 29, 2015)

There is good news about the usage year for borrowed points that have been used in a cancelled reservation -- and bad news about the Customer Service Center in Europe (Cork, Ireland).

This is the second time that I have had a very poor experience in dealing with the Customer Service Center in Europe (Cork, Ireland).  The last time ended with intervention by Keith Kocarck and Steven Weisz after a supervisor banked points from my account without my permission or my knowledge and then refused to "unbank" them.  This time I didn't have to undo anything, but the supervisor gave incorrect information and when I questioned it she admitted that she wasn't sure about what she was saying and that she would call me right back.  That was 7 hours ago.  When I called after 3 hours, I was told that she was busy and would get right back to me...  That was 4 hours ago... 

Now the good news.  It appears that when a reservation with borrowed points is cancelled less than 61 days before the date of the reservation, the points are restricted but they can be used in the year to which they were borrowed *and* in their original year.

When I gave up on the European office, I called the American Customer Service number and was told that there is no problem using my cancelled points for a new reservation in 2015.  I was checked into the MVC website when the reservation was cancelled and the borrowed (and restricted) points showed a use year of 1/01/2015 to 31/12/2016.  This would seem to confirm my reading of the regulations that Fasttr quoted.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?  Perhaps this is something that should be added to Sue's MVC Destination Points sticky.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 30, 2015)

This is interesting.  I had always thought that if you borrowed points and canceled a reservation that you had to use them in the use year to which you borrowed.  Does this mean that the only thing you lose buy borrowing points is the ability to bank them?  I have always been reluctant to borrow points for a reservation late in the year because of the possibility of having to cancel and lose the points, but if I understand this thread correctly, they could still be used in the original use year in case of a cancellation.  Is that correct?


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> This is interesting.  I had always thought that if you borrowed points and canceled a reservation that you had to use them in the use year to which you borrowed.  Does this mean that the only thing you lose buy borrowing points is the ability to bank them?  I have always been reluctant to borrow points for a reservation late in the year because of the possibility of having to cancel and lose the points, but if I understand this thread correctly, they could still be used in the original use year in case of a cancellation.  Is that correct?



Like you, I always understood it to be that they were stuck in the earlier Use Year to which they were borrowed.  I would prefer to have a larger sample size than just this one before assuming things are different, but it is interesting... and if true, is much more member friendly than the way we both understood it to be.


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## jeff76543 (Sep 30, 2015)

BocaBoy:  Yes you do understand correctly what happened -- and, evidently, the rule.  I think that the only things that you lose are the ability to bank the points or to transfer them to someone else -- and, if you cancel less than 61 days in advance, they become restricted and become "Holding Account Points".

Fasttr:  I agree that it would be better to have multiple examples.  Nevertheless the passage from the Exchange documents that you quoted and highlighted does seem to say quite clearly that "Borrowed Exchange Points deposited into a Member’s Holding Account *expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed.*"  (The language is similar in the case of cancellations made at least 61 days in advance of the reservation date, except that in this case the points are not restricted and not placed in the Holding Account.)  This would mean that if you borrow points and then cancel the reservation you would still be able to use the points in the original use year -- and the example from my case seems to show that you also can continue to use the points in the year *to which* they were borrowed.


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

jeff76543 said:


> BocaBoy:  Yes you do understand correctly what happened -- and, evidently, the rule.  I think that the only things that you lose are the ability to bank the points or to transfer them to someone else -- and, if you cancel less than 61 days in advance, they become restricted and become "Holding Account Points".
> 
> Fasttr:  I agree that it would be better to have multiple examples.  Nevertheless the passage from the Exchange documents that you quoted and highlighted does seem to say quite clearly that "Borrowed Exchange Points deposited into a Member’s Holding Account *expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed.*"  (The language is similar in the case of cancellations made at least 61 days in advance of the reservation date, except that in this case the points are not restricted and not placed in the Holding Account.)  This would mean that if you borrow points and then cancel the reservation you would still be able to use the points in the original use year -- and the example from my case seems to show that you also can continue to use the points in the year *to which* they were borrowed.



Gents....I figured out why we thought it was one way and now it appears to be the other way.  The rules were changed from the original Exchange Procedures to the new Exchange Procedures (modified in April 2015)....examples to follow.


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> Gents....I figured out why we thought it was one way and now it appears to be the other way.  The rules were changed from the original Exchange Procedures to the new Exchange Procedures (modified in April 2015)....examples to follow.



OK....here are some examples from old docs to the new docs.....Clearly, the change was made when they rolled out new Exchange Docs associated with the new benefit levels in April 2015.  The bottom line is that is appears to be an improvement to how they were treated in the past, which is good news.  

Old Docs Borrowing Rules.....


> Borrowing Exchange Points. Unless restricted or limited as provided in Section III.D., a Member may borrow all or a portion of the Exchange Points allocated for a particular Use Year up to twenty-five (25) months prior to the first day of such Use Year. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used to make reservations for Use Periods that occur during the Use Year for which the Member is currently entitled to make reservations. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used for a wait list reservation as set forth in these Exchange Procedures. *In the event that a reservation request using borrowed Exchange Points is not confirmed, the borrowed Exchange Points must be utilized during the Use Year for which they were borrowed and will expire at the end of such Use Year* as set forth in Section III.B. of these Exchange Procedures. A Member who desires to borrow Exchange Points may be required to remit an amount to be applied against the following year’s purchase money payments, maintenance fees, and ad valorem taxes, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion from time to time and such amounts shall be held in escrow as required by applicable law. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be banked for use in a subsequent Use Year. A Member may borrow Exchange Points in order to make an Advance Priority Reservation. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be transferred to other Members and purposes for which borrowed Points may be used may be limited by Exchange Company from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion. When an Exchange Member borrows Exchange Points, the Exchange Members will be deemed to have Deposited the Use Period designated by the Exchange Member with Exchange Company, and Exchange Company will automatically have all of such Exchange Member’s rights to reserve and use such Use Period for the given Use Year.



New Docs Borrowing Rules


> Borrowing Exchange Points. Unless restricted or limited as provided in Section III.D., a Member may borrow all or a portion of the Exchange Points allocated for a particular Use Year up to twenty-five (25) months prior to the first day of such Use Year. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used to make reservations for Use Periods that occur during the Use Year for which the Member is currently entitled to make reservations. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used for a wait list reservation as set forth in these Exchange Procedures. *In the event that a reservation request using borrowed Exchange Points is not confirmed, the borrowed Exchange Points must be utilized prior to the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed and will expire at the end of such Use Year *as set forth in Section III.B. of these Exchange Procedures. A Member who desires to borrow Exchange Points may be required to remit an amount to be applied against the following year’s purchase money payments, maintenance fees, and ad valorem taxes, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion from time to time and such amounts shall be held in escrow as required by applicable law. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be banked for use in a subsequent Use Year; *however, borrowed Exchanged Points do not expire until the end of the Use Year from which such Exchanged Points were borrowed.* A Member may borrow Exchange Points in order to make an Advance Priority Reservation. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be transferred to other Members and purposes for which borrowed Exchange Points may be used may be limited by Exchange Company from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion. When an Exchange Member borrows Exchange Points, the Exchange Member will be deemed to have Deposited the Use Period designated by the Exchange Member with Exchange Company, and Exchange Company will automatically have all of such Exchange Member’s rights to reserve and use such Use Period for the given Use Year.



Old Docs Cancellation Rules 


> Cancellations and No-Shows.
> 1.           If a Member wishes to cancel or release a confirmed reservation of a Use Period, and Exchange  Company  receives  written  cancellation  (or  other  means  of  verifiable  communication  acceptable  to Exchange Company) at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply, and such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member  for  further  use  during  that  Use  Year;  provided,  however,  that  in  the  case  of  an  Advance  Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.
> 
> 2.           If Exchange Company receives written cancellation sixty (60) days or less prior to the first day of a confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply; however, such cancellation will result in assignment of the related Exchange Points to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures; provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will not be restored and will be forfeited by the Member.



New Docs Cancellation Rules


> Cancellations and No-Shows.
> 1. If a Member wishes to cancel or release a confirmed reservation of a Use Period, and Exchange Company receives written cancellation (or other means of verifiable communication acceptable to Exchange Company) at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply, and such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member for further use during that Use Year (*or if borrowed Exchange Points, for use prior to the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed*); provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.
> 2. If Exchange Company receives written cancellation sixty (60) days or less prior to the first day of a confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply; however, such cancellation will result in assignment of the related Exchange Points, *including borrowed Exchange Points, to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures*; provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will not be restored and will be forfeited by the Member. Borrowed Exchange Points in a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed.



Old Docs Holding Account wording


> Holding Account means an account established for purposes of depositing Exchange Points that are restored to a Member after the cancellation or modification of a confirmed reservation. Exchange Points deposited in a Member’s Holding Account shall be available for further use during that same Use Year, but the further use of such restored Exchange Points shall only be confirmed by Exchange Company for Use Periods beginning no more than sixty (60) days after the date of the request, subject to availability, or other Special Benefits as may be made available for such purposes by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Points deposited in a Holding Account may not be transferred to other Members, banked for future use, or used for wait list requests.



New Docs Holding Account wording


> Holding Account means an account established for purposes of depositing Exchange Points that are restored to a Member after the cancellation or modification of a confirmed reservation. Exchange Points deposited in a Member’s Holding Account shall be available for further use during that same Use Year, but the further use of such restored Exchange Points shall only be confirmed by Exchange Company for Use Periods beginning no more than sixty (60) days after the date of the request, subject to availability, or other Special Benefits as may be made available for such purposes by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Points deposited in a Holding Account may not be transferred to other Members, banked for future use, or used for wait list requests. *Borrowed Exchange Points deposited into a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed*.


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## BocaBoy (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> Gents....I figured out why we thought it was one way and now it appears to be the other way.  The rules were changed from the original Exchange Procedures to the new Exchange Procedures (modified in April 2015)....examples to follow.



Thank you for digging into this.  I think this is one of those "small" changes that could be huge in practice for those who borrow points.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> Thank you for digging into this.  I think this is one of those "small" changes that could be huge in practice for those who borrow points.



Yes, thanks very much, jeff76543 and Fasttr!  The rule changes must be why we were surprised at MVW's explanation of the waitlist/cancellation/banking issue when they seemed to be advising counter to the docs back in 2014.  Maybe they were anticipating the changes then so implemented them sooner than the docs were revised?

Anyway, I've edited the FAQ with these new borrowing/cancellation rules paraphrasing as much as possible to get the basics across.  Do you want to take a look at the bottom of page two and make sure it's correct?


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes, thanks very much, jeff76543 and Fasttr!  The rule changes must be why we were surprised at MVW's explanation of the waitlist/cancellation/banking issue when they seemed to be advising counter to the docs back in 2014.  Maybe they were anticipating the changes then so implemented them sooner than the docs were revised?
> 
> Anyway, I've edited the FAQ with these new borrowing/cancellation rules paraphrasing as much as possible to get the basics across.  Do you want to take a look at the bottom of page two and make sure it's correct?



Bottom of page 2 of the FAQ Sticky looks good.  May I also suggest you tweak your general wording in the Borrowing paragraph to this.....(the two bolded areas are the changes).  I think these additional tweaks will help to eliminate confusion between the Borrowing definition and the additional detail provided at the bottom of page 2.  

Borrowing - Points may be borrowed from their current Use Year to the one immediately preceding. The election may be made anytime (according to the MVCD Exchange Procedures document on my-vacationclub.com,)"... up to twenty-five (25) months prior to the first day of such Use Year. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used to make reservations for Use Periods that occur during the Use Year for which the Member is currently entitled to make reservations." Borrowed Points will expire if they are not used prior to the end of the Use Year *from* which they were borrowed. Once borrowed, such Points cannot be further borrowed, transferred, or banked back into their original Use Year, *however, borrowed Exchanged Points do not expire until the end of the Use Year from which such Exchanged Points were borrowed.* (*See "Waitlist Requests" and "Cancellations" below.)


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> Bottom of page 2 of the FAQ Sticky looks good.  May I also suggest you tweak your general wording in the Borrowing paragraph to this.....(the two bolded areas are the changes).  I think these additional tweaks will help to eliminate confusion between the Borrowing definition and the additional detail provided at the bottom of page 2.
> 
> Borrowing - Points may be borrowed from their current Use Year to the one immediately preceding. The election may be made anytime (according to the MVCD Exchange Procedures document on my-vacationclub.com,)"... up to twenty-five (25) months prior to the first day of such Use Year. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used to make reservations for Use Periods that occur during the Use Year for which the Member is currently entitled to make reservations." Borrowed Points will expire if they are not used prior to the end of the Use Year *from* which they were borrowed. Once borrowed, such Points cannot be *further borrowed or transferred.* (*See "Waitlist Requests" and "Cancellations" below.)



Nvermind, I see it, yes I'm wrong!!  The FAQ will be edited and for brevity I think just as I've bolded above.


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## jeff76543 (Sep 30, 2015)

Hi Susan,

Your paraphrase is correct, although you might consider emphasizing that if borrowed points were used for the cancelled reservation, the points in the holding account can be used *either* in the year *to which* they were borrowed or in the original year *from which* they were borrowed.

You might want to consider the following edit of the last sentence on page two of the sticky:  "Borrowed Exchange Points in a Member’s Holding Account can be used either in the year to which they were borrowed or in their original Use Year, and they expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed."


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I know it's clunky but somehow the FAQ needs to get across the point that you can't, for example, borrow 2017 Points into the 2016 Use Year and then simply bank them back into 2017 without having had any transactions attached to them.  That's my understanding anyway - is it wrong?



I agree it is hard to do with paraphrasing, which is why its usually best to just quote the rule....perhaps if you change the definition in the FAQ for Borrowing with the one from the Exchange Docs, that will take care of the confusion.  I think the new docs Borrowing rule spell things out quite nicely.   

As to your point above regarding not having any transaction related to the borrowing....I don't believe you can even borrow points back unless there is a transaction attached to them to start with.....I think you can only borrow them if you need to do so when booking a ressie.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

As usual I'm tripping all over myself and now you two, too!

It's guaranteed that when the FAQ only quotes the rules it generates almost as many questions as when the rules aren't stated.  Folks want simple which is what we're trying to give them.  

Fasttr, I think you can borrow without attaching a transaction which makes sense because if you plan on using borrowed Points to try get a high-demand reservation as soon as the window opens, you'll want to do the borrow transaction in advance so that you're ready to go as soon as.  (The last time I spoke to Owner Services they confirmed that the system doesn't automatically pull Points that can be borrowed when you're searching - I called in because I thought it did but it wasn't happening in practice.)

jeff, again I think we're better off with less is more.  The Holding Account qualification really isn't any different than the standard qualification for borrowed Points, that they can be used up until the final day of the original Use Year (subject to Holding Account restrictions, of course.)


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## jeff76543 (Sep 30, 2015)

Susan, the reason that I suggested the addition was the response of the supervisor in the European Office, who claimed that borrowed points from a cancelled reservation could only be used in their original year and not in the year to which they were borrowed.  The supervisor finally responded to me in writing tonight (a day and a half after she promised to call back "right away"), and claimed that her interpretation of the rules was correct (!) and that my borrowed points from the cancelled reservation could only be used next year (their original Use Year) and not this year.  I wrote back to her that a U.S. customer service representative had already used them for a reservation *this year* and that she misunderstood the meaning of the Exchange Documents.  In any event, I think that until the rules are clear to Marriott representatives (even including supervisors), it's worth adding the clarification about Use Years.

In the last analysis, it's your decision.  Perhaps the reference to this thread in your explanation will provide clarity to anyone who might be confused.


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> As usual I'm tripping all over myself and now you two, too!
> 
> It's guaranteed that when the FAQ only quotes the rules it generates almost as many questions as when the rules aren't stated.  Folks want simple which is what we're trying to give them.
> 
> ...



Your FAQ Sticky looks good after your final edits....even I can understand it!!!  

I am not so sure about your comment about borrowing without using for a specific ressie.  Perhaps you can call a VOA to do so, though not sure why you would want to, as the way the system works is when you want to book a ressie for more points than you have in your account, but you have available clean points in the following Use Year, the system will automatically borrow what it needs to complete the ressie.  Its done seamlessly, thus no need to prepare your points in your account to be ready for a reservation window to open as you suggested one would need to.  That is why you will notice a button to bank points online, but no button to borrow points online.....its because its done seamlessly when needed to fulfill a ressie.

I believe somebody figured out that the system will not use bankable points in your point total when searching for ressies (which makes sense as online Banking points is a separate feature you need to physically perform to initialize the transaction), but I know for a fact that the system uses borrowable points in searching and booking as I have done it this way several times.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> Your FAQ Sticky looks good after your final edits....even I can understand it!!!
> 
> I am not so sure about your comment about borrowing without using for a specific ressie.  Perhaps you can call a VOA to do so, though not sure why you would want to, as the way the system works is when you want to book a ressie for more points than you have in your account, but you have available clean points in the following Use Year, the system will automatically borrow what it needs to complete the ressie.  Its done seamlessly, thus no need to prepare your points in your account to be ready for a reservation window to open as you suggested one would need to.  That is why you will notice a button to bank points online, but no button to borrow points online.....its because its done seamlessly when needed to fulfill a ressie.



That's what I'm talking about - the system didn't do it seamlessly for me when I thought it should have.  When I called in the rep was able to borrow the Points and then book the reservation but it was two transactions with an email generated for each.  It seemed like it was very clear in her mind, she didn't hesitate at all when I asked why the system wasn't automatically pulling Points for me.  "It won't do that."

I've only tried that one time and maybe it was a glitch?  I'll remember this and let you know if it works another time.


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> That's what I'm talking about - the system didn't do it seamlessly for me when I thought it should have.  When I called in the rep was able to borrow the Points and then book the reservation but it was two transactions with an email generated for each.  It seemed like it was very clear in her mind, she didn't hesitate at all when I asked why the system wasn't automatically pulling Points for me.  "It won't do that."
> 
> I've only tried that one time and maybe it was a glitch?  I'll remember this and let you know if it works another time.



That is weird!!!

I just did one about a week ago and it borrowed 200-something points to get it done.  Have used borrowed points several times over the past 4 years and never had an issue.  

Are you sure it was not bankable points....I edited my prior post to add that as I do recall somebody discovered that the system did not use Bankable points when doing searches, etc.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> That is weird!!!
> 
> I just did one about a week ago and it borrowed 200-something points to get it done.  Have used borrowed points several times over the past 4 years and never had an issue.
> 
> Are you sure it was not bankable points....I edited my prior post to add that as I do recall somebody discovered that the system did not use Bankable points when doing searches, etc.



No, it was borrowed Points.  The only thing I can think of - now, I didn't think of it then - is that I converted a Week to Points only the day before trying to borrow them.  Maybe there was lag time involved and the rep was able to work around it?  She didn't say but it's possible ...


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> That's what I'm talking about - the system didn't do it seamlessly for me when I thought it should have.  When I called in the rep was able to borrow the Points and then book the reservation but it was two transactions with an email generated for each.  It seemed like it was very clear in her mind, she didn't hesitate at all when I asked why the system wasn't automatically pulling Points for me.  "It won't do that."
> 
> I've only tried that one time and maybe it was a glitch?  I'll remember this and let you know if it works another time.



I just did a test ressie as I only have 25 points remaining for this year in my account (I call those little leftovers "dangling chads" ).  Anyhow, I had no problem seeing 2015 ressies for more than my available points.

Also, if you click on the Borrow tab online, it even tells you it will borrow as part of the process of confirming your reservation.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> I just did a test ressie as I only have 25 points remaining for this year in my account (I call those little leftovers "dangling chads" ).  Anyhow, I had no problem seeing 2015 ressies for more than my available points.
> 
> Also, if you click on the Borrow tab online, it even tells you it will borrow as part of the process of confirming your reservation.



  Don't know what to tell you.  For the rest of the afternoon you can picture me with a dunce cap rather than my usual tiara.  :rofl:


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Don't know what to tell you.  For the rest of the afternoon you can picture me with a dunce cap rather than my usual tiara.  :rofl:



I prefer to picture the VOA who helped you in a dunce cap.  

As you said when our posts were passing each other on the interweb, it was likely connected to the lag in converting your Legacy week to points.  That seems to be the most logical explanation.  

Amazing how the interworkings of this system can cause us all to pull our hair out!!!


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## SueDonJ (Sep 30, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> I prefer to picture the VOA who helped you in a dunce cap.
> 
> As you said when our posts were passing each other on the interweb, it was likely connected to the lag in converting your Legacy week to points.  That seems to be the most logical explanation.
> 
> Amazing how the interworkings of this system can cause us all to pull our hair out!!!



See, that's one reason for the tiara - it keeps my hair in place.


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## Dewnay (Sep 30, 2015)

jeff76543 said:


> This would mean that if you borrow points and then cancel the reservation you would still be able to use the points in the original use year -- and the example from my case seems to show that you also can continue to use the points in the year *to which* they were borrowed.



I tried to make a reservation using borrowed points and this is the window that popped up:







It gave me the impression that if I cancelled the reservation, the points would not go back to the original use year.

Thanks for the clarification.

D.


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## Fasttr (Sep 30, 2015)

Dewnay said:


> I tried to make a reservation using borrowed points and this is the window that popped up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another perfect example of MVC making a change, but not carrying through with the notifications that appear in all areas of the system.  


.


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## jeff76543 (Sep 30, 2015)

+1

I agree Fasttr.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 1, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> That's what I'm talking about - the system didn't do it seamlessly for me when I thought it should have.  When I called in the rep was able to borrow the Points and then book the reservation but it was two transactions with an email generated for each.  It seemed like it was very clear in her mind, she didn't hesitate at all when I asked why the system wasn't automatically pulling Points for me.  "It won't do that."
> 
> I've only tried that one time and maybe it was a glitch?  I'll remember this and let you know if it works another time.



I have borrowed points on at least 5 or 6 occasions in the past two years and the system searched seamlessly with the borrowable points every time.  All my transactions were done completely online, except for a couple of times when I was canceling or changing a points reservation.


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