# Brawl at Disneyland [merged]



## am1 (Jul 8, 2019)

Brawl at Disneyland and security was nowhere to be found for minutes.  Not much faith in them or mankind after seeing this video.  Do not let your guard down.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 8, 2019)

Happiest place on earth!


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## SteelerGal (Jul 8, 2019)

Shocked that it took FOREVER for Security to get there.


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## bluehende (Jul 8, 2019)

It better not get too many views or disney will figure it should be  a new attraction.


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## CPNY (Jul 8, 2019)

bluehende said:


> It better not get too many views or disney will figure it should be  a new attraction.


Spreading like wild fire


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## Cornell (Jul 8, 2019)

This.Makes.Me.Sick.

How pathetic to hear a young child upset & crying while this is all happening.

And if people act like this in public @ Disney, imagine how they behave behind closed doors?


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## mentalbreak (Jul 8, 2019)

Just ridiculous.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-disneyland-brawl-video-20190708-story.html

Scary stuff. And it felt like it took forever for security to show up.  And the poor street-sweeper cast member tried...


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## Shankilicious (Jul 8, 2019)

Great example for their kids.....Disgraceful. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## dioxide45 (Jul 8, 2019)

Discussion already happening here;

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/brawl-at-disneyland.292566/


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## CPNY (Jul 9, 2019)

I’m glad I’m a Universal Orlando Annual Passholder. That has nothing to do with this, I just wanted to say it lol. If universal sold timeshares I’d buy in! On resale of course. OMG a hogwarts resort? Ok then I’d buy from the developer lol


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## davidvel (Jul 9, 2019)

Security wanted no part of that mess until they had plenty of resources. The group that entered after about 3 minutes was smart to stay out of the fray as they would have been wilted down quickly. The big football players were certainly helpful in quelling the scum that was punching the woman, and the rest of them.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 9, 2019)

davidvel said:


> Security wanted no part of that mess until they had plenty of resources. The group that entered after about 3 minutes was smart to stay out of the fray as they would have been wilted down quickly. The big football players were certainly helpful in quelling the scum that was punching the woman, and the rest of them.


Sorry, that’s not an excuse.  Security should have been there immediately considering its Disney.  Regardless if there are rarely incidents, in today’s world one must be prepared.  Truly disappointed.  
I am a local and there have never been a brawl however I have seen ppl get heated.


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## mav (Jul 9, 2019)

The happiest place on earth???? Why did they even go together to the park if they can't get along?


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## mdurette (Jul 9, 2019)

WOW - I'm sure fights break out in Mickey's kingdoms more than we know.     After watching the video a few times, I think the people in the group all knew each other. 
I am surprised about the time it took for security to get there, even more surprised that when they did arrive there was no higher level of security to actually subdue anyone (handcuffs maybe).


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## Patri (Jul 9, 2019)

That man in red needs to go to jail, but the family probably won't press charges. Can you imagine what goes on at home? Wonder if he was on drugs. He was just out of control and didn't care that a crowd was watching.


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## RX8 (Jul 9, 2019)

My guess is jail is something he has previous experience with.


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

Well.... who hasn’t done that?

Too bad that this isn’t anything new. Have you watched parents duke it out at T-Ball games?

I’m not a big proponent of spankings but when that was outlawed then what would you expect would be the outcome?

Between my wife and I there are 7 kids. All gone except one and I think I’ve given less spankings than I can count on one hand.
But. I could look at anyone of them at 100 yds away ( not really 100 ) and if they were misbehaving they would immediately stop

When they would start acting up I would say “ you know, your older brother Donny used to do that exact same
thing “. They would be like what? We don’t have an older brother named Donny. Exactly!!

Although a joke. They got my point


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

Now that the police have video of it, of they get everyone identified, Disney can charge them all with at least disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace. 
If any of the fighters are family, they could be charged with domestic battery by the state since the law doesn't rely on family/ couples to charge each other. 
And yeah, people that automatically resort to violence to resolve a conflict typically have and/or will see a jail cell many many times in their lives.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> Now that the police have video of it, of they get everyone identified, Disney can charge them all with at least disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace.
> If any of the fighters are family, they could be charged with domestic battery by the state since the law doesn't rely on family/ couples to charge each other.
> And yeah, people that automatically resort to violence to resolve a conflict typically have and/or will see a jail cell many many times in their lives.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



Says the person with Shank in their name???

Have a story?
Just kidding


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

I wonder what security is allowed to do?

I have no idea in this case. But some can only keep people moving along


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> Says the person with Shank in their name???
> 
> Have a story?
> Just kidding


My last name is Shank. shankilicious is a college nickname. I'm a cop in Illinois.

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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> My last name is Shank. shankilicious is a college nickname. I'm a cop in Illinois.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



I like it. Great name!!
Now especially for a cop!!


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

Or a doctor 

Could you imagine hearing Dr. Shank to the ER?


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## RX8 (Jul 9, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> Or a doctor
> 
> Could you imagine hearing Dr. Shank to the ER?



Or a professional golfer


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## chalee94 (Jul 9, 2019)

it's only really a bad name if you're a golfer...

(too slow...)


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

chalee94 said:


> it's only really a bad name if you're a golfer...
> 
> (too slow...)


Or if I worked corrections instead.....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## rapmarks (Jul 9, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> Says the person with Shank in their name???
> 
> Have a story?
> Just kidding


My father had cousins, Jinx and Shanks.  We heard how Jinx got his name, but never Shanks


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## SmithOp (Jul 9, 2019)

What puzzled me was why the lady using the mobility scooter got off and got in the middle of the fracas, only to be knocked down and unable to get up without assistance.

That family puts the dis in functional.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## CPNY (Jul 9, 2019)

davidvel said:


> Security wanted no part of that mess until they had plenty of resources. The group that entered after about 3 minutes was smart to stay out of the fray as they would have been wilted down quickly. The big football players were certainly helpful in quelling the scum that was punching the woman, and the rest of them.


You see one security guard there for a while just watching not getting involved. She was smart because she would have been hurt, there should be actual police officers in the park. I think there are in Orlando.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

When I was in Orlando, I talked to a Florida trooper/highway patrolman that was standing by the entry gate (pre-metal detectors). I asked him how they kept people from conceal carrying into the park. He stated that they have "people trained to look for that" meaning undercovers/plain clothes officers/security supposedly all over the place. Even by myself I would have jumped in to separate them and stop the violence until more help arrived. However I have a lot of tools on my bat belt compared to 99% of security officers. A  Most security officers in most locations are strictly a deterrent and have no right to detain let alone go hands on and arrest someone. If they do, hella lawsuits are possible. Just speaking from experience at places not Disney.


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## DaveNV (Jul 9, 2019)

I only watched the first part of this, but the fact that it appears the woman spit in the guy’s face, and he slapped her, tells me this group has seen and done this sort of thing before. Don’t know the backstory, and it doesn’t matter. This sort of thing is way out of line, especially to use the stroller with a child to try and get in the middle of things. Inexcusable.

Dave


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## RX8 (Jul 9, 2019)

I watched that video for the first time. I am shocked that Disneyland security took that long to get there.  I think since this family was beating up on themselves that the delay isn’t being discussed so much but what if that guy was attacking strangers?


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

Cop story:
There was a couple in my town that lived in the crappiest apartments in town. We got called there for 7-8 domestics in the course of 6 months. I took the guy to jail when the girl broke his arm because he didn't show me that on scene and she had a black eye. Didn't get convicted.
I took the girl to jail while pregnant because he had bite marks all over him and she had no marks. Didn't get convicted.
We took them both to jail once and gave the kids to grandma and neither got convicted.
They finally split up but we'll never stop dealing with them because of the custody issue.....  
I don't understand why people stay with each other when one or both are physically, mentally, or emotionally abusive. 
But I agree with @DaveNW that these two are used to this kind of thing. What a pathetic norm. And the worst part is that neither they nor their kids will ever know that this is not an acceptable way to behave.


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## SteelerGal (Jul 9, 2019)

RX8 said:


> I watched that video for the first time. I am shocked that Disneyland security took that long to get there.  I think since this family was beating up on themselves that the delay isn’t being discussed so much but what if that guy was attacking strangers?


This.  Yes this video showcases a dysfunctional family however what if the guy started attacking random ppl.  Are you telling me there isn’t security in a room watching the park?


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## Jan M. (Jul 9, 2019)

Did I miss something? The whole video is 4 minutes 23 seconds, the lone security guard was there at minute two and the rest at minute 3. That seems like a pretty reasonable response time. What got me was all the looky loos. If you aren't there to help, standing there watching is incredibly stupid and a good way to get yourself injured or killed. The one woman is a very big woman and if she just got shoved into you or your child, well that's going to hurt at the very least. I don't care how good security is if I saw an incident taking place I would never trust that someone didn't have a knife or a gun. I'm outta there.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 9, 2019)

People are afraid to get involved due to lawsuits and rather standby and record it. Which has it's values. However, I would not be able to stand by or run. Gun or knife, my family present or not, I'm the type of person that has to get involved and try to resolve the solution until a higher authority arrives. Inside ten yards, knife or gun I've got a really good chance of taking it from you before you can stab or pull the trigger. It's all about who acts first.


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## sfwilshire (Jul 9, 2019)

I felt badly for the lady on the scooter who got up to try to stop the fight. The man in pink referred to her as his Mama. She wound up on the ground at one point. Not a peaceful family to be a part of.

Sheila


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 9, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> Cop story:
> There was a couple in my town that lived in the crappiest apartments in town. We got called there for 7-8 domestics in the course of 6 months. I took the guy to jail when the girl broke his arm because he didn't show me that on scene and she had a black eye. Didn't get convicted.
> I took the girl to jail while pregnant because he had bite marks all over him and she had no marks. Didn't get convicted.
> We took them both to jail once and gave the kids to grandma and neither got convicted.
> ...



I grew up in an upper class home. My ex in a welfare type home
We never really got along. Her dad and brothers would beat the piss out of their GF/Wives 
I had a job. New cars and a 4br home at 20
I think her problem was she didn’t know how to act in a normal relationship 
She probably felt as out of place with me as I did around her family 


You ever watch Chicago PD?
You need to take people like that out to the Silos


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## silentg (Jul 9, 2019)

This was at Disneyland in California. Florida has its share of brawls, but don’t confuse Disneyland with Disneyworld.


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## pedro47 (Jul 9, 2019)

Awful ! Awful !  I pray that man in the red shirt was arrested and I pray he is barred from Disneyland and Disney World for Life. IMOP.


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## rapmarks (Jul 9, 2019)

Made me recall new job, I was told there were twins in sophomore class.  I am picturing one thing, and in walks two six ft three guys swearing at each other and trying to kick each other in the head.  They mentioned their older brother who was real smart. I asked the brother why he had failed the class. He said they wanted him to buy books and he needed his money for drugs.


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## easyrider (Jul 9, 2019)

What is it with Orlando ? This reminds me of the bunny suit guy, lol.

Bill


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## mdurette (Jul 9, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> When I was in Orlando, I talked to a Florida trooper/highway patrolman that was standing by the entry gate (pre-metal detectors). I asked him how they kept people from conceal carrying into the park. He stated that they have "people trained to look for that" meaning undercovers/plain clothes officers/security supposedly all over the place.



A few years ago - my husband and daughter walked in while I went to bag check line at Magic Kingdom.  He was approached very discreetly and pulled aside by a few plane clothes guys who immediately started to ask what he was carrying under his shirt, in his pockets, on his waist.   Made him lift shirt and empty pockets.   Nothing but his wallet.   Their next question, they asked was he on the job, which he is.   They all shook hands and went on our way.

Between his upper body muscle mass and years of wearing the vest and duty belt his arms simply don't fall against his side anymore - because they have that spread away from his body and his oversized t-shirt was untucked I understand why they checked him out.  

I think an inside look at Disney behind the scenes security operations would be fascinating to get a glimpse of, especially what they do outside the park to ensure nothing gets inside the park the don't want.


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## moonstone (Jul 9, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> Or a doctor
> 
> Could you imagine hearing Dr. Shank to the ER?




Probably better than what I heard while waiting in the ER 2 summers ago.  I was so nauseous & in so much pain (brutal gall bladder attack) and over the PA DH & I hear Dr. Howard being paged. I said to DH if they also page Dr Fine, I'm outa here!! A lady a few years older than me was in stitches and the younger folk in the waiting room couldn't understand what DH & the woman were laughing about.  Dated reference, I know! 






~Diane


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## Cornell (Jul 10, 2019)

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/texas-man-intervened-violent-disneyland-brawl


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## CPNY (Jul 10, 2019)

Cornell said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/travel/texas-man-intervened-violent-disneyland-brawl


But will they be banned for life?


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## CPNY (Jul 10, 2019)

Disney should change their slogan from “the happiest place on earth” to “bringing out the worst in families since 1955”


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## amycurl (Jul 10, 2019)

> Too bad that this isn’t anything new. Have you watched parents duke it out at T-Ball games?
> 
> I’m not a big proponent of spankings but when that was outlawed then what would you expect would be the outcome?
> 
> ...



Yes, because violence and the threat of violence is *always* effective. *smh* All research points to the exact opposite--children that grow up with violence of any kind--including spankings--are *much more likely* to use violence to resolve conflicts and to use violence on their children and intimate partners that those who did not experience physical punishment growing up. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking


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## WVBaker (Jul 10, 2019)

amycurl said:


> Yes, because violence and the threat of violence is *always* effective. *smh* All research points to the exact opposite--children that grow up with violence of any kind--including spankings--are *much more likely* to use violence to resolve conflicts and to use violence on their children and intimate partners that those who did not experience physical punishment growing up. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking



This is a debate that will go on as long as there are children to raise.

Understand that there are many differences in how the terms used and influence perceptions of parental discipline. While not defending or condemning the use of corporal punishment, there those that feel by simply altering the verb used to describe the act of corporal punishment, it can have a substantial impact on how a parents reaction is perceived. There are some terms that have a tempering effect such as, "spanking" or "swatting", when compared with terms like, "hit", "slap" or "beat". I've had parents quote the Bible as guidance to how they raise their children.

Parents need to understand the concepts of punishment and discipline are complete and absolute opposites. Punishment is motivated by anger by some action of the child, and results in either compliance out of fear or perhaps rebellion with feelings of shame, guilt and/or hostility. Discipline is motivated by love for the child and focuses on the teaching, and results in obedience and feelings of security.

Parenting is not an easy job by any means. There is not one of us that do it perfectly. Children don't come with an instruction manual attached. I believe we need to raise our children to best of our ability, and provide them with all the knowledge, love and strength we can provide. Parents need firm and consistent hands with a soft and loving heart.


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## Cornell (Jul 10, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> This is a debate that will go on as long as there are children to raise.
> 
> Understand that there are many differences in how the terms used and influence perceptions of parental discipline. While not defending or condemning the use of corporal punishment, there those that feel by simply altering the verb used to describe the act of corporal punishment, it can have a substantial impact on how a parents reaction is perceived. There are some terms that have a tempering effect such as, "spanking" or "swatting", when compared with terms like, "hit", "slap" or "beat". I've had parents quote the Bible as guidance to how they raise their children.
> 
> ...


I actually disagree w/you that this will be a debate as long as there are children to raise.  I think eventually society as a whole will recognize the inappropriateness of hitting / striking / spanking (whatever you want to call it) a child and it will no longer be a "parenting style".  I believe that spanked children who grow up to be well-behaved, functioning adults are that way DESPITE of their spanking , not because of it.


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 10, 2019)

Here’s some good parenting 

Dixon Police say they arrested a woman for driving down the road with 2 kids sitting inside an inflatable pool on the roof of the car.

Police say they pulled the driver over on River Lane, just south of IL Route 2. They say she told officers that she drove into town to inflate the pool at a friends’ house and had her two juvenile daughters ride inside of the empty pool to hold it down on their drive home. 

Jennifer Yeager was placed under arrest for two counts of Endangering the Health or Life of a Child and two counts of Reckless Conduct. Yeager was also cited for failure to secure a passenger of the age of 8 and under the age of 16.


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## RX8 (Jul 10, 2019)

Jan M. said:


> Did I miss something? The whole video is 4 minutes 23 seconds, the lone security guard was there at minute two and the rest at minute 3. That seems like a pretty reasonable response time. What got me was all the looky loos. If you aren't there to help, standing there watching is incredibly stupid and a good way to get yourself injured or killed. The one woman is a very big woman and if she just got shoved into you or your child, well that's going to hurt at the very least. I don't care how good security is if I saw an incident taking place I would never trust that someone didn't have a knife or a gun. I'm outta there.



I didn’t see any security until the 3:19 mark. There was a lone maintenance man early on but no security.

Edited:  I watched it again and the guy trying to keep peace starting around 1:41 mark is a civilian.  I still think the security response time was woefully inadequate.


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## WVBaker (Jul 10, 2019)

Cornell said:


> I actually disagree w/you that this will be a debate as long as there are children to raise.  I think eventually society as a whole will recognize the inappropriateness of hitting / striking / spanking (whatever you want to call it) a child and it will no longer be a "parenting style".  I believe that spanked children who grow up to be well-behaved, functioning adults are that way DESPITE of their spanking , not because of it.



Absolutely 
Some people have certain beliefs while others may not. We must agree to disagree on certain things.


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## amycurl (Jul 10, 2019)

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.


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## mentalbreak (Jul 10, 2019)

Gypsy65 said:


> Here’s some good parenting
> 
> Dixon Police say they arrested a woman for driving down the road with 2 kids sitting inside an inflatable pool on the roof of the car.
> 
> ...



From 2017. The last paragraph is a particular gem:

A Wisconsin woman thought it would be “OK” to have her 9-year-old son ride on the roof of her minivan — in the attempt to hold down a plastic pool — and now she’s facing up to ten years in prison, cops said.

Amber Schmunk, 28, was charged Tuesday with second degree recklessly endangering safety for the Sep. 9 incident, according to WTMJ-TV.

The Ozaukee County mom reportedly admitted to police that she was driving with her son on the roof, “but only for a short time, maybe 20-30 seconds,” she said.

A local resident had spotted her and called 911.

Schmunk told cops that she picked the pool up from a nearby residence and couldn’t fit it inside her vehicle. She said she “had no way to strap it down, so she had her child climb on the roof and hold it down while she drove,” the charging complaint says.

Schmunk went on to tell officers that she thought it would be “OK” for her to drive with her boy on the roof because her father did the same thing with her when she was a kid.


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## WVBaker (Jul 10, 2019)

amycurl said:


> Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.



Regardless if I, "want to "believe" it or not", plays no part in any field of science. I'm certainly not condoning the use physical force in any form and I'm not denying it's impact.

As for corporal punishment, I believe at last count in 19 states it’s still legal for school officials to hit children. I personally don't agree with that form of punishment, but it is the law. If I resided in one of those states and my child attended school, I would be required to abide by the law. We can't pick and choose which laws to follow and which not to.

I think I explained as best I can how I "believe" a child, any child, should be raised. We can certainly disagree on any subject without being disagreeable in doing so.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 10, 2019)

amycurl said:


> Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.


Ahh (today's) science and studies, they can always be manipulated to get the desired outcome...


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## davidvel (Jul 10, 2019)

amycurl said:


> Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.



_Science_ once had a respected position where academics could utilize the scientific method, analyze, deduce, and reach consensus on theories. _Scientists_ didn't demean others for reaching a different conclusion, it was just part of the process. Once politics entered the fray, science changed. "Science" became what those who paid you said it should be. It became what the groups paying the grants hoped it would be.  It became a game of being shunned if your results didn't fit the popular mold. 

Of course there are many areas where science is still what we all grew up thinking it is, but in public discourse, "Science" now is whatever a group (the loudest/biggest/most opinionated) say it is. One person's science is another's garbage. The science mantra is now a means to bully others into feeling stupid for not agreeing with another's science. 

Science once said certain racial groups were inferior to others, and science was a basis for the holocaust. Science once said the earth was flat. 

Science is the modern day "race card," to be held out to diminish and demean your opponent, without critically arguing or debating the science itself.  "I say the science is on my side, so you are ignorant to ignore what I tell you the science says." 

No, science is far from 2+2=4.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 11, 2019)

amycurl said:


> Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.



Amy,

As someone who works in a public school, I am going to respectfully disagree with your position.  
To be clear, I am NOT saying all trouble making children should be spanked repeatedly, but when properly used, spanking is an effective tool in steering many children away from becoming a trouble making child.  

Spanking must not be the only tool used - but it must be in the tool belt if needed. Far too many classrooms are disrupted (and instructional time for ALL students lost) with all of the TYNT approaches tried in school systems these days.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 11, 2019)

A good Scientist knows his mind, and is smart enough to question it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 11, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> Amy,
> 
> As someone who works in a public school, I am going to respectfully disagree with your position.
> To be clear, I am NOT saying all trouble making children should be spanked repeatedly, but when properly used, spanking is an effective tool in steering many children away from becoming a trouble making child.
> ...



We have come a long way from whips and chains but now have gone too far the other direction 

I see kids all the time screaming and such when out. The parents either do nothing or think it’s cute
Really??
Kids need to have respect and fear. Not a fear of getting beat but a fear of the unknown 
Sorta like jail. The fear of going usually is worse than the actual going


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## bbodb1 (Jul 11, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> A good Scientist knows his mind, and is smart enough to question it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



...and repeat said process......


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## CPNY (Jul 12, 2019)

RX8 said:


> Or a professional golfer


Or a bad golfer Tag line “ohhhh he shanked it” lol


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## Shankilicious (Jul 12, 2019)

As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators. 
I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets. 
My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 12, 2019)

For those that don't wanna read the whole article that @amycurl posted, here's a few paragraphs from that same article, oddly the only section that posts any statistics: 

_As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

*“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”*

In a meta-analysis of 26 studies, Larzelere and a colleague found that an approach they described as “conditional spanking” led to greater reductions in child defiance or anti-social behavior than 10 of 13 alternative discipline techniques, including reasoning, removal of privileges and time out (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2005). Larzelere defines conditional spanking as a disciplinary technique for 2- to 6-year-old children in which parents use two open-handed swats on the buttocks only after the child has defied milder discipline such as time out.
_
Just throwing it out there.


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 12, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators.
> I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets.
> My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.



Well said!!!


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## WVBaker (Jul 12, 2019)

Cornell said:


> I actually disagree w/you that this will be a debate as long as there are children to raise.  I think eventually society as a whole will recognize the inappropriateness of hitting / striking / spanking (whatever you want to call it) a child and it will no longer be a "parenting style".  I believe that spanked children who grow up to be well-behaved, functioning adults are that way DESPITE of their spanking , not because of it.



Given the last few posts, it's fair to say that there are many ideas and reasoning on whether to use corporal punishment or not. It's not always as black and white as some may think it is. There has not been one post that condones abusing any child. Corporal punishment is not always the "abuse" that some may wish to define it as.

As the child of parents who believed in corporal punishment, when the situation called for it, I loved and respected both my parents. I knew and understood that there were consequences for my actions and wouldn't change that. As a person who grew up and chose law enforcement as my profession, as well as being a "well-behaved, functioning adult", I do know why.

Believe it or not, it was because of it.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 12, 2019)

WVBaker said:


> Given the last few posts, it's fair to say that there are many ideas and reasoning on whether to use corporal punishment or not. It's not always as black and white as some may think it is. There has not been one post that condones abusing any child. Corporal punishment is not always the "abuse" that some may wish to define it as.
> 
> As the child of parents who believed in corporal punishment, when the situation called for it, I loved and respected both my parents. I knew and understood that there were consequences for my actions and wouldn't change that. As a person who grew up and chose law enforcement as my profession, as well as being a "well-behaved, functioning adult", I do know why.
> 
> Believe it or not, it was because of it.


Agreed.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## jehb2 (Jul 12, 2019)

I was at church camp all week with my kids but my family was texting back and forth about the video.  I had decided I wouldn’t watch it.  But just now watched it here. I really wished I hadn’t.  That was extremely disturbing.


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 12, 2019)

jehb2 said:


> I was at church camp all week with my kids but my family was texting back and forth about the video.  I had decided I wouldn’t watch it.  But just now watched it here. I really wished I hadn’t.  That was extremely disturbing.



Thing is. The kids weren’t even phased by it
If I did that to my wife or whoever she was. My kids would have been screaming


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## Gypsy65 (Jul 12, 2019)

I also think there was a lot of screaming or arguing going on well before the video and that may have been part of the reason no one stepped in


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## beejaybeeohio (Jul 12, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators.
> I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets.
> My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.



The fear of parents may develop into respect for them, but if a "whupping" is what kids expect, the discipline of teachers and administrators, e.g. detention, being sent to the office, etc. just doesn't faze them.

Now, if parents would support discipline meted out for their kid's flaunting school rules, by adding on a consequence at home (not physical!), we'd have more "good kids".

As far as kids exaggerating abuse, it's the role of Children's Service to determine if, in fact, the child is in a dangerous situation. Seriously abused kids will lie in the opposite direction of your examples stating that they fell or ran into daddy's cigarette or were playing around with a rope!


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## klpca (Jul 12, 2019)

Well, somehow I managed to raise three law abiding kids with hardly any corporal punishment. If the foundation for respect has been laid from an early age - starting in the toddler years - I don't think that you need a lot of corporal punishment. My middle kid spent so much time on the naughty step as a toddler that she would put herself on the step when she knew that she did something wrong. In our house, "house rules" were never negotiable. Bedtime was bedtime. No exceptions. What you were served for dinner was what you were getting for dinner. No exceptions. Fight with your sibling? Apologize and take a seat on the naughty step. No exceptions. "Naughty steps" are everywhere you look - the curb in a parking lot, a picnic bench seat - it didn't matter - you break the rules, you take a seat. Fast forward to the teen years and while it wasn't without some goof ups, we didn't have nearly the issues that we saw with other kids. Curfews were obeyed without question. Everyone graduated with good grades, everyone went to college, two of three have advanced degrees, all three have good jobs and contribute to society. It's not fool proof, but good, active parenting takes care of a lot of behavior problems.

And circling back to the video, those poor kids who are growing up in that kind of environment. It just breaks your heart for them.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 13, 2019)

beejaybeeohio said:


> The fear of parents may develop into respect for them, but if a "whupping" is what kids expect, the discipline of teachers and administrators, e.g. detention, being sent to the office, etc. just doesn't faze them.
> 
> Now, if parents would support discipline meted out for their kid's flaunting school rules, by adding on a consequence at home (not physical!), we'd have more "good kids".
> 
> As far as kids exaggerating abuse, it's the role of Children's Service to determine if, in fact, the child is in a dangerous situation. Seriously abused kids will lie in the opposite direction of your examples stating that they fell or ran into daddy's cigarette or were playing around with a rope!


There's definitely some truth to what you say. However, I obeyed the school rules, or at least the major ones (every kid tries to get away with a little) more out of fear of the letter or call home than of the school punishments. But I never got detention or skipped classes and by college that was out of respect for my parents and fear of their disappointment rather than any other punishment. My greatest fear is letting down my father, to this day. Got plenty of spankings and belts across the backside from him and my mother. But never once was I spanked, struck, slapped, smacked, or "hit" anywhere else. Not once. Even when I lied or cursed in their face.
As far as Children Services goes. They are insanely under staffed. I've reported severe abuse and had children in protective custody and waited hours for a response. I've had a dad admit on recorded interview that he "popped that B***h in the mouth for back talking" and then threw her to the ground when she tried to run outside and the dad didn't get convicted of child abuse/domestic battery even though that's what I charged him with. I know they try hard but working 60 hours a week for barely more than minimum wage is a remarkably thankless job.
The spankings stopped by the time I was 5ish. Then it was taking things away from me that I cherished or grounding me so that I couldn't go to friends houses or do anything outside or school and sports. I was never grounded to the point that I missed a sports game. Even though I loved sports, once signed up for a team, that was an obligation in my dad's eyes and it is not allowed to miss an obligation for any reason except severe illness or family emergency.
That's the difference.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 13, 2019)

klpca said:


> Well, somehow I managed to raise three law abiding kids with hardly any corporal punishment. If the foundation for respect has been laid from an early age - starting in the toddler years - I don't think that you need a lot of corporal punishment. My middle kid spent so much time on the naughty step as a toddler that she would put herself on the step when she knew that she did something wrong. In our house, "house rules" were never negotiable. Bedtime was bedtime. No exceptions. What you were served for dinner was what you were getting for dinner. No exceptions. Fight with your sibling? Apologize and take a seat on the naughty step. No exceptions. "Naughty steps" are everywhere you look - the curb in a parking lot, a picnic bench seat - it didn't matter - you break the rules, you take a seat. Fast forward to the teen years and while it wasn't without some goof ups, we didn't have nearly the issues that we saw with other kids. Curfews were obeyed without question. Everyone graduated with good grades, everyone went to college, two of three have advanced degrees, all three have good jobs and contribute to society. It's not fool proof, but good, active parenting takes care of a lot of behavior problems.
> 
> And circling back to the video, those poor kids who are growing up in that kind of environment. It just breaks your heart for them.



I think the way you parented/described it is the best way to parent. I never spank my kids unless they've been told repeatedly, had things taken away, and still are blatantly defiant. Even then, it's not out of anger as I know where they get their insanely strong will and stubbornness.... ME and her mother is just like I am lol! But props to you @klpca for raising good kids that are a positive contribution to society


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## klpca (Jul 13, 2019)

Shankilicious said:


> I think the way you parented/described it is the best way to parent. I never spank my kids unless they've been told repeatedly, had things taken away, and still are blatantly defiant. Even then, it's not out of anger as I know where they get their insanely strong will and stubbornness.... ME and her mother is just like I am lol! But props to you @klpca for raising good kids that are a positive contribution to society


My husband comes from a family that believes that the punishment should fit the crime. He went to Catholic school (so - very strict) and was caught cussing - you know, back in the day when it wasn't heard every other word - and his dad made him spend every afternoon for two weeks copying the entire encyclopedia section on the English language, word for word. Guess who rarely cusses to this day, lol.

Sounds like we parent similarly. As I suspect a large number of people do. It's always the few that cause the most problems.


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## Shankilicious (Jul 13, 2019)

klpca said:


> My husband comes from a family that believes that the punishment should fit the crime. He went to Catholic school (so - very strict) and was caught cussing - you know, back in the day when it wasn't heard every other word - and his dad made him spend every afternoon for two weeks copying the entire encyclopedia section on the English language, word for word. Guess who rarely cusses to this day, lol.
> 
> Sounds like we parent similarly. As I suspect a large number of people do. It's always the few that cause the most problems.


Truth! Unfortunately my opinions/work experiences are skewed. I deal with 10% of the population 90% of the time...... Too bad it's the worst 10%......


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## bbodb1 (Jul 13, 2019)

klpca said:


> My husband comes from a family that believes that the punishment should fit the crime. He went to Catholic school (so - very strict) and was caught cussing - you know, back in the day when it wasn't heard every other word - *and his dad made him spend every afternoon for two weeks copying the entire encyclopedia section on the English language, word for word. Guess who rarely cusses to this day, lol.*
> 
> Sounds like we parent similarly. As I suspect a large number of people do. It's always the few that cause the most problems.




And very likely learned MANY new words as a result!  
That is an excellent and imaginative punishment!


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## CPNY (Jul 13, 2019)

I just want to know if they banned this family for life, like they did the guy who held up a political sign on magic mountain or whatever ride that was lol.


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## pedro47 (Jul 13, 2019)

CPNY this person needs to ban for 40 years OK.


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## klpca (Jul 13, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> And very likely learned MANY new words as a result!
> That is an excellent and imaginative punishment!


I believe that his dad told him, "apparently you need a better command of the English language.  So here is a way to learn some additional words" or something along those lines. It definitely made an impression on my husband.


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## WVBaker (Jul 28, 2019)

In case you missed them. 

Charges Filed in Family Fight Caught on Video at Disneyland

http://orangecountyda.org/civica/press/display.asp?layout=15&Entry=5886

"The family was asked to leave Disneyland and escorted by Disneyland security back to a parking structure to retrieve their vehicles.
While in the structure, Avery Robinson is accused of attempting to hit a Disneyland employee with his vehicle and threatening to kill his sister Andrea and her husband Daman while simulating a gun with his hand and pointing at the couple."

Dysfunction doesn't run in this family. It practically gallops.


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## rapmarks (Jul 28, 2019)

I wonder if the female is still in a dating relationship with Avery?


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