# SVO resale question



## wolverines (Apr 10, 2006)

OK, this is my first time posting. I've been reading as much as possible over the past few days after getting back from Harborside and passing on buying while down there.

I'm looking at resales and was wondering if anyone has been able to get the Starpoints for a resale unit. I think I've got a good understanding of the network and the Staroptions. The inability to use the Starpoints is certainly a big drawback in buying a resale. It seems like many of you guys are simply renting your week out and using that to pay for a hotel elsewhere (or trading weeks where possible). If I were to purchase a resale I'd certainly stick to the "mandatory" resorts as part of the SVO network.

Thanks for helping out a newbie.


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## saluki (Apr 10, 2006)

You will not be able to use Starpoints if buying resale. You will just need to decide if the Starpoints option (& incentive Starpoints bonus at developer purchase) justify the added cost for you.


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## Henry M. (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm an SVO owner in Maui and I looked into this a couple of months ago. The consensus at various SVO branches and in the forums I read (I hadn't found TUG then) was that there was no way to get Starpoints out of a resale property.

Resales also don't count towards SVO Elite status. There is a possiblity of getting the units grandfathered in if you later buy something from Starwood and make that sale contingent on getting the older units counted towards Elite status, but I don't know just how much credit you get towards that.

SVO status can make a difference if you own multiple units. When you exchange to a popular destination you don't always get the best rooms as those are reserved for the owners. This is often the case in Maui where owners get first priority for the best rooms and people exchanging into the property get the parking lot or construction views. Higher level Elite status helps in getting better rooms. It is also nice to get late checkout when most of the planes going to the mainland leave Maui in the evening. You certainly pay more when buying from the developer  but you do get some benefits. It's kind of like buying a Chevy or a BMW. There's no real financial justification for the more expensive unit, but there is a difference.


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## DeniseM (Apr 10, 2006)

wolverines said:
			
		

> The inability to use the Starpoints is certainly a big drawback in buying a resale.



It really isn't a drawback.  In fact, I would never convert to Starpoints.  When you look at your upfront cost and high maintenance fee, the number of Starpoints they give you in exchange isn't a good value.  

For instance, we own a 2 bdm. lock-off on Maui, so I can go to Maui for *2 weeks* and stay in my beautiful and roomy timeshare.  If I convert to Starpoints, I only get 80K Starpoints, which is only enough points for about *7 nights* at the Maui Sheraton or Westin in a small standard hotel room!  

And since they keep devaluing the Starpoints, they are worth less now, than they were 3 years ago when we bought our TS.  When we first bought, it was 10K Starpoints a night to stay at the Maui Sheraton or Westin (and most other Starwood category 4 hotels), now it's 12K Starpoints a night, so my 80K Starpoints are worth less all the time.

If you find a good deal on a resale at a mandatory resort - go for it!


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## stevens397 (Apr 10, 2006)

And while I enjoy your postings, your Chevy-BMW comparison doesn't hold up.  Buying resale - you still get the BMW!

Having said that, I'm a happy purchaser of a developer unit - Kierland in 2004.  There were no resales back then, I got a slew of points from the now defunct Starwood Direct, and I've had two years of great vacations.  There are benefits either way.  Hopefully, you'll have it for many, many years.  Whatever works.


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## wolverines (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks for the responses. My gut feeling when looking at everything was that I'd rather have the starpoints option, all else being equal. For a few thousand more I would pay the developer and take the incentives. But they've jacked up the prices so much at some of these places that the developers price just doesn't make as much financial sense. Depending on where you are looking and at what time, you could buy 2 units for the price of a developer unit. To me the better analogy is a used bmw vs. a new and improved bmw.

If anyone else has thoughts I'd love to hear them. My research will continue...


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## Henry M. (Apr 10, 2006)

I like your analogy of new vs. used BMW better than mine. Some might argue there's no sense in ANY timeshare purchase, but I do like mine!

I would agree with DeniseM that Starpoints are probably not worth it for the more expensive properties. I haven't tried renting out any of my time in Maui, but when I finally decide I won't use it (maybe never at the rate I'm going), I will try to rent rather than get Starpoints. 80,000 Starpoints are at best 10 nights in a category 4 hotel. Even at the Westin in Maui, at $300/night this is $3,000. I think you should be able to get at least $600-$700/night total for the studio and 1 BR parts rented individually. Maybe more if you reserve a high demand week. Even at $500/night you'd still get $3,500 for your week. Thus, Starpoints are nice if you go to really high end hotels, but not critical for enjoying timesharing. Of course if all else is equal, then the option gives you more flexibility. I don't know how much Kierland rents for, so maybe the Starpoints there are a more attractive option.

One thing about resales or buying at a cheaper resort to trade elsewhere - when you exchange you may not get the best rooms at another resort. In Maui in the summer, for example, there is very high owner occupancy. Many people exchanging from other locations are disappointed at the views from their rooms since owners have priority. Make sure you buy where you'd like to go most of the time. 

Henry
(by the way, Denise, I'll be at KOR with my family in July too: 7/8-24!)


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## seenett (Apr 11, 2006)

Actually, I don't even think the new vs used BMW analogy is quite right!  Let's take this further, just for fun:

*You can buy a NEW BMW from the dealer. This BMW has 10 miles on the odometer and has a full factory warranty.

*You can also buy a USED BMW at the lot next door.  This BMW is exactly the same but costs 30% less.  It has 11 miles on the odometer, because the first owner drove it around the block before reconsidering his purchase and traded it in for something else.  It is being offered with the same original warranty as the new one.

The NEW BMW dealer offers you an additional incentive:  Once a year, you can bring it back for a week.  In return, the dealer will give you $500 in store credit.  He promises the car will be returned in exactly the same condition.

The USED car lot can not offer the same incentive, but tells you how you can rent your car for $1000 a week. The renter will pay you directly, but he  must _check in and out with the BMW dealer_. The dealer will hold the renter 100% liable for any possible damage, and you are promised to get the car back in the same condition.


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## Henry M. (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd say the used BMW has a few more miles on it and is a recent model but not the newest one. It takes a year or two for the latest models to become available as resales. Both used and new handle well and provide the driving experience you expect from a BMW.

However, the used car dealer has to take off the Elite badges and you can't get them back unless you buy another car from the new dealer. There's a little stain in the carpet that you can't take out but it is hardly noticeable and in a hidden place - no matter how many used BMW's you have, you have to keep the exact times the used car garage dictates and they don't give you coffee and cookies when you come into the shop. You can also never get the coupons that let you use other loaner models for a few days whenever you feel like trying something totally different.

Even though you can't go to the new dealrship for service and a loaner (no Starpoints) there are mechanics that are just as good down the road and they charge less so you can rent a car yourself and save some money in the process. You just don't quite get waited on as much.

Basic car and driving experience are great but you do give up some of the "concierge" aspects of the service experience. Whether those frills are worth the extra money is another question and the answer varies by customer, his/her expectations and the depth of his/her pockets.

There's no right or wrong selection. There are people that think it is crazy to buy any new car, others wouldn't dream of buying a used one and in some localities many prefer public transportation. They view all cars as a total waste of money since from a purely financial viewpoint it makes more sense to take the subway or bus.


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## stevens397 (Apr 11, 2006)

TUGGERs are the cleverist people!  I onl wish BMWNA could see this thread!

Happy holidays to all.


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## wolverines (Apr 12, 2006)

Goes to show how few people want Chevy's 

I guess everyone has their price. If the gap is close enough I buy new for all the extra perks. If you want me to buy used you need to incent me with a lower price, which is exactly where I stand. Trying to figure out how much that gap needs to be.


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## Henry M. (Apr 12, 2006)

There's someone going through the process right now and awaiting written confirmation of his understanding. If you're not in a hurry I expect he'll post his experience with a resale and the extra benefits when he completes the transaction. He frequents this board so I think he'll post when he's ready.


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