# Join complaints against Starwood



## gmarine (Sep 11, 2009)

I've gotten a ton of emails from people unhappy with the Starwood changes that have been made. For those who havent followed the threads, basically Starwood has decided that they have the right to tell non-SVN owners what week at their resort that they can deposit with Interval. Non-SVN owners have deeded property rights. Once we make a reservation, we are free to do as we wish with that week. Starwood doesnt get to control our deeded weeks.

I've spoken to Starwood multiple times by phone and it seems Starwood management believes they have the right to do this since it only affects deposits with II. 

Imagine Starwood telling you that you cant rent week 52, but instead they will give you week 50. Its essentially the same thing. If you make a reservation and then deposit that week with II you are giving the usage of that week to II. Starwood has no right to interfere. Allow them to do this with no fight and who knows whar could be next.

That being said, I think its time to move on and up. Myself and some other Tuggers I have spoken with are going to start gathering Starwood owners for the purpose of fighting this. 

Among the actions are going to be complaints to the Real Estate Commissions and Attorney General's of any state where an affected resort is located. One TUG member is going to post on his travel blog. I'm also going to contact law firms that have previously handled timeshare cases to look into a lawsuit against Starwood. 
Details of Starwood screwing owners will be put up on every and any timeshare/travel message board that we can find.
Complaints to Interval will be sent as well.

At the very least we are going to get it out there that Starwood isnt owner friendly. 

If your interested in joining the complaints please send me a PM. Any help in gathering members would be appreciated.

George


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## DeniseM (Sep 11, 2009)

Count me in!


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## ArtsieAng (Sep 11, 2009)

Im in, too.


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## nodge (Sep 11, 2009)

While I'm not a fan of litigation, I am a fan of its discovery phase, where each side is allowed to propound interrogatories, requests for production, and requests for admission to the other side and follow-up with depositions, etc. of key employees.

This may be the only way to figure out what SVO has been doing with all of our maintenance fee and special assessment monies and what has been happening to the revenue generated from rentals, etc.

The biggest problem with this discovery phase is that you have to actually sue someone in the US to trigger it, and once you've sued someone you often can't easily stop suing them if you change your mind or run out of money.

I understand that Canada has a pre-litigation phase where you can obtain limited discovery from a potential litigant before you actually sue them.  If so, this would be the way to go.  We could see SVO's documents, etc. produced and then decide what to do with that info.  

Are there any Canadian SVO owners (preferably who purchased over the phone while they were still in Canada) willing to look into this option for the team?

-nodge


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## mlsmn (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm in also


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## amanven (Sep 11, 2009)

Nodge, I may am Canadian and I purchased my SVR while in Canada.  I would like to help you out but to do what you have in mind would require the services of a member of the legal profession and the meter starts running on that the minute you walk into their office.


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## nodge (Sep 11, 2009)

amanven said:


> Nodge, I may am Canadian and I purchased my SVR while in Canada.  I would like to help you out but to do what you have in mind would require the services of a member of the legal profession and the meter starts running on that the minute you walk into their office.



Thanks for checking in!

Hmmmm.  I'm pretty sure ARDA won't be helping us out here despite the millions it has collected from us through SVO's illegal opt-out or donate plan.  (Funny, I don't recall this story making it into MSC either.)

Let's see if any Canadian attorneys chime in to at least confirm my understanding of Canadian litigation procedures.  We can then take things from there.

-nodge


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## jerseygirl (Sep 11, 2009)

Count me in as well gmarine.  I can help with letter writing if needed.   I'm also willing to contribute to a legal fund.


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## chalucky (Sep 11, 2009)

In...............


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## djyamyam (Sep 11, 2009)

Count me in


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## Captron (Sep 12, 2009)

Tally Ho!!!


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## stive1 (Sep 12, 2009)

count me in


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 12, 2009)

I am in, of course!  We need like 200 people to get a good attorney at a low cost per person, if we go that route.  Can we get that many from TUG?  That would be awesome.

My new gripe:

I can see ALL of the Westins on the islands this morning with my lowliest trader, a Foxrun week 13.  That means NO more priority, and trading power is not needed to get them.  

Is this accidental? Planned? Why doesn't Starwood want us to see the units in their system, when it's worked for Marriott for years.  Starwood isn't looking out for the owners, just to stop people here on TUG from taking advantage of the system.  I am going to put ongoing searches in with my Sheratons and my Foxrun and see which comes through first for me.  If my Foxrun comes through, we will know the motives of this latest move by Starwood: they want new blood for their sales tours, and will take away our priority to get it.


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## l2trade (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm in and eager to help!


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## Twinkstarr (Sep 12, 2009)

Count me in!


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## Dave55123 (Sep 12, 2009)

Count me in.  Resale owner @ Sheraton Vistana Resort.


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## gmarine (Sep 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am in, of course!  We need like 200 people to get a good attorney at a low cost per person, if we go that route.  Can we get that many from TUG?  That would be awesome.
> 
> My new gripe:
> 
> ...




Cindi, there is more than likely going to be no cost for any legal action. I hope it doesnt come to that. I really do like Starwood but we do have to protect our rights. However, if it does come to that, more than likely one of two things is going to happen. 

First, since Starwood is taking away deeded property rights, the Attorney General's of any state affected could take action against Starwood.

Second, if there does turn out to be a lawsuit filed, it would more than likely be taken on by a law firm on a contingency basis. This is from a friend who is a lawyer but not in this area of law. He also tells me that with the sheer volume of Starwood members that any law firm would look for class action status. Its for this reason they would take it on contingency. 

Lets just hope Starwood heeds the complaints and stops this non-sense before any of this has to be considered. 

I'm also contacting the NY Times writer who did an article featuring TUG members back a few months ago. Myself and Cindy were interviewed for the article. I'm going to ask her to consider an article on one of the pitfalls of timesharing, specifically developers trying to take advantage of owners. I think it would make a great story.


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## DeniseM (Sep 12, 2009)

I would be glad to talk to the NY Times writer, too.  I own a deeded fixed week/fixed unit at SVR that is the week before or after Easter 65% of the time - and it has been designated a floating week in my II Acct. now.  

How can they possibly deny me the right to deposit my deeded FIXED week/unit???


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## yumdrey (Sep 12, 2009)

Count me in! I am an WMH owner (resale).
Starwood should know better than this.


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## golf261 (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm in - a recent SDO resale buyer.


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## heckp (Sep 12, 2009)

you have my support!


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## timeos2 (Sep 13, 2009)

*Not just SVC behind the problem*



DeniseM said:


> I would be glad to talk to the NY Times writer, too.  I own a deeded fixed week/fixed unit at SVR that is the week before or after Easter 65% of the time - and it has been designated a floating week in my II Acct. now.
> 
> How can they possibly deny me the right to deposit my deeded FIXED week/unit???



Ask any Wastegate owner. With II's tacit blessing they just do it! The problem isn't only with the corrupt developers but the exchange company with no stomach for member rights as well. Sounds like II to me!


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## Troopers (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm in.  I'm only good for a few bucks and a signature on a petition.


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## stevens397 (Sep 14, 2009)

Stevens397 is on board too.  That makes two companies I own who are screwing their owners - Starwood and the Manhattan Club.


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## LisaH (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm also on board if SVN insists on taking my reserved week away once I place the "request first" with II. I have not tried it yet...


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## GrayFal (Sep 16, 2009)

I am late posting but I am in as well. George, I have sent you an email.


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## mlsmn (Sep 21, 2009)

*My blog post about - Starwood Screws Owners!*

Does Starwood Corporate in White Plains NY know what’s going on?…

A battle between their  Starwood Vacation Network (SVN)(Westin and Sheraton Timeshares) and owners is brewing…

I’m one of these owners and have tried to get a written statement from SVN Cusomer Service head but to no avail…

She only wants to talk on the phone - I wonder why? (no notice has gone out about the change either)…

It’s a shame that Starwood’s great reputation as a hotel company is being soiled by another division… (see details below)…

If your interested in joining the complaints please send an email  to   Gcmarine@aol.com
——
From my my email (still waiting for a answer) sent to Starwood Vacation Network’s Customer Service manager
Dear Ms. _ _ _ _ _ ,

Two times last week I wasted 45 minutes of my time talking to  ”Specialists” in customer service who went over the new rules and why its better.
I have no desire to do this again. The new rules are not better.

I had specific questions in my original email that I would like answers to- not a conversation about how wonderful these changes are. They are not.

Here are the questions that need answers by email-

1- Why are my ownership rights being superseded by new rules? Who gave Starwood the right to change things that are in a contract?

2-How is this better when under the new plan I can’t have my deeded week 20 get a platinum March week but will now get gold plus trade power?

3-Why don’t my future years deposits show so I can search with them?

4-How is this better with no request first?

5-How is it better - no holding a reservation to put in a search?

6-You are rewriting an existing contract aren’t you? making  owners choice floating weeks 1-52 into a joke.

7-Does Starwood Corporate in White Plains NY know what’s going on?

8-also what happened to the 3 day preference in Interval.?????
I follow SVN resorts 1-2 times a day and compare it to my non SVN and both see the same things with few exceptions. many others on TUG and TS4MS do the same and have come to the same conclusion-Starwood doesn’t seem to be using the 3 day preference in the last 3-4 weeks. (you may not see these sightings unless you qualify - they are not available to everyone)

I’ve already had 4 (now 11) emails from my readers of www.pointswizard.com asking if I knew about the problem.

Besides my interest in this as a publisher of a travel blog -I am an owner whose has been affected by these new policies which take away the rights of the 1-52 weeks owners.

It seems to me that the only answer is to put everything back to the way it was - the sooner the better
————–
The problems are spelled out in this post from Timeshare Users Group (TUGBBS.com) member GMarine,
“Join complaints against Starwood

I’ve gotten a ton of emails from people unhappy with the Starwood changes that have been made. For those who havent followed the threads, basically Starwood has decided that they have the right to tell non-SVN owners what week at their resort that they can deposit with Interval. Non-SVN owners have deeded property rights. Once we make a reservation, we are free to do as we wish with that week. Starwood doesnt get to control our deeded weeks.

I’ve spoken to Starwood multiple times by phone and it seems Starwood management believes they have the right to do this since it only affects deposits with II.

Imagine Starwood telling you that you cant rent week 52, but instead they will give you week 50. Its essentially the same thing. If you make a reservation and then deposit that week with II you are giving the usage of that week to II. Starwood has no right to interfere. Allow them to do this with no fight and who knows whar could be next.

That being said, I think its time to move on and up. Myself and some other Tuggers I have spoken with are going to start gathering Starwood owners for the purpose of fighting this.

Among the actions are going to be complaints to the Real Estate Commissions and Attorney General’s of any state where an affected resort is located. One TUG member is going to post on his travel blog. I’m also going to contact law firms that have previously handled timeshare cases to look into a lawsuit against Starwood.
Details of Starwood screwing owners will be put up on every and any timeshare/travel message board that we can find.
Complaints to Interval will be sent as well.

At the very least we are going to get it out there that Starwood isnt owner friendly.

If your interested in joining the complaints please send me an email ”   Gcmarine@aol.com

———

Poll from TUG(Timeshare OwnersGroup)

Poll Results: How would you rate Starwood’s timeshare management?
Starwood has the best management team in the business, & they have my complete confidence.     0%
Starwood is doing the best they can in a bad economy, & is committed to the best interest of owners.   6.58%
Starwood’s management team is average - no better or worse than anyone else.       30.26%
Starwood has not treated timeshare owners ethically, and they’ve lost my trust.       50.00%
I wish we could fire Starwood management TODAY!      13.16%


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## jerseygirl (Sep 21, 2009)

MLSMN --

Very well done.  

All --

I also believe communication with "corporate" is in order.  Do we know if anyone has done this yet?  I'm happy to start that ball running, but need something other than the "general" email address.  If anyone has one, please share.  If not, I guess I could always use regular mail.

The only thing I would add to your list of complaints is the complete travesty of not permitting fixed week owners to deposit their fixed weeks.  Does anyone know for certain that this is in fact the policy?


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## gregb (Sep 21, 2009)

Emails are used by many to communicate.  But if you want to lodge a formal complaint, I suggest you take the time to compose a real letter.  Sign it and send it to the president of the corporation and the vice presidents of the divisions that are affected.  In the letter, mention that you are sending copies to the State Attorneys General of the States where they do business, also the Better Business Bureau's of the cities that are affected.  If the State has a timeshare bureau, send copies to them as well.  With a formal letter, they cannot claim not to have received it.  It may get a response.

Greg


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## Fredm (Sep 21, 2009)

jerseygirl said:


> MLSMN --
> 
> Very well done.
> 
> ...



I posted an "open letter" to Starwood regarding the double talk used in their written explanation.

Don't know if you want to borrow any of it, but feel free.


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## DeniseM (Sep 21, 2009)

jerseygirl said:


> The only thing I would add to your list of complaints is the complete travesty of not permitting fixed week owners to deposit their fixed weeks.  Does anyone know for certain that this is in fact the policy?



I have already deposited my 2009 and 2010 fixed weeks, but my 2011 fixed week is listed as "floating," in my II Acct. now, so I am not sure what that means.  I don't think I am going to deposit it, so I haven't tried it.


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## jerseygirl (Sep 21, 2009)

Greg -- good point.  I'll go the "written letter" route if no one else speaks up about already doing so.

Fred -- thanks -- I'll definitely "borrow" from it if that's okay with you.

Denise -- Thanks.  None of my units show up anymore.  It really ticks me off since I paid to add them.  I own a couple of fixed weeks but haven't tried depositing since this situation has me so mad that I'm seriously considering just getting out of all Starwood units except for HRA and WSJ, neither of which will ever be used for SO or II trades (hopefully I'll always be able to use, but if not, I'd rent before I'd give them up at their deflated SO values).


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## mlnuwer (Sep 29, 2009)

*Starwood Owner*

I own a deeded week at Vistana.  I do not understand what negative implications there are from your message.  I have noticed that the listing at II under Vistana does show I now have a floating week instead of week 31 as it used to show but other than that is there some other problem?  Does it change our trading power?

I agree with who is in control.  For my week I want that I am in control so I am in if there is a problem that I am unaware of.

mlnuwer@cox.net


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## DeniseM (Sep 29, 2009)

mlnuwer said:


> I own a deeded week at Vistana.  I do not understand what negative implications there are from your message.  I have noticed that the listing at II under Vistana does show I now have a floating week instead of week 31 as it used to show but other than that is there some other problem?  Does it change our trading power?
> 
> I agree with who is in control.  For my week I want that I am in control so I am in if there is a problem that I am unaware of.
> 
> mlnuwer@cox.net



In a nut shell, if you own a floating week, you can no longer reserve and deposit a high season week of your choice.  Instead, you will be assigned a generic trade value by Starwood, which probably will not have the trade value of a high season week that you choose yourself.  This may indeed hurt your trade power.  There are several different threads on this topic that you can read for more information.

Secondly - if you do a "request first" with II, you can no longer hold a Resv. at your home resort, until your exchange comes through.

If you own a fixed week, it _appears_ that you can still deposit the week you own.  An SVR fixed week owner was able to deposit her high season fixed week online last week, and in her online Acct. it looks like they deposited the actual fixed week.


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## amanven (Sep 29, 2009)

And here I thought Starwood had gone this route in an attempt to make buying a unit on the resale market less desirable.  Now it appears only those who bought resale FLOAT weeks have to suffer the consequences of Starwoods new "understanding" with II.  It seems the playing field between the owners of resale units just got a little bit unlevel.


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## James1975NY (Sep 29, 2009)

amanven said:


> And here I thought Starwood had gone this route in an attempt to make buying a unit on the resale market less desirable.  Now it appears only those who bought resale FLOAT weeks have to suffer the consequences of Starwoods new "understanding" with II.  It seems the playing field between the owners of resale units just got a little bit unlevel.



Does not really have anything to do with resale or not. Specifically, it is the non-SVN owner base that use II for an exchange that have been affected...for better or worse.


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## Joshadelic (Sep 29, 2009)

amanven said:


> And here I thought Starwood had gone this route in an attempt to make buying a unit on the resale market less desirable.  Now it appears only those who bought resale FLOAT weeks have to suffer the consequences of Starwoods new "understanding" with II.  It seems the playing field between the owners of resale units just got a little bit unlevel.



I'm assuming the value of fixed weeks on the resale market will be going up a little.  As long as it's a prime week on  the deed.


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## DeniseM (Sep 29, 2009)

amanven said:


> And here I thought Starwood had gone this route in an attempt to make buying a unit on the resale market less desirable.  Now it appears only those who bought resale FLOAT weeks have to suffer the consequences of Starwoods new "understanding" with II.  It seems the playing field between the owners of resale units just got a little bit unlevel.



The new rules are the same for resale and developer buyers.  The resale buyers have lost more than the developer buyers, but they took their hit too - developer buyers can't do a bona fide "request first" exchange any more, either.


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## Joshadelic (Sep 29, 2009)

I haven't said so yet, but of course you know I'm in!!  I don't have any money right now to contribute to a legal fund, but I'm willing to put in some time in whatever way I can be of help.


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## DeniseM (Sep 29, 2009)

Josh - Love your quote!


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## Joshadelic (Sep 29, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Josh - Love your quote!



I borrowed the idea from a very cool TUG Member.


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## LisaRex (Sep 30, 2009)

I have no dog in this fight, but am willing to lend my voice to the cause.


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## DeniseM (Sep 30, 2009)

LisaRex said:


> I have no dog in this fight, but am willing to lend my voice to the cause.



Lisa - if you still own at WKORV, you DO have a "dog in this fight."  You can no longer hold an active reservation at your home resort, and do a II request-first search.  For someone who owns an expensive week like you do, that is a very important right.


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## amanven (Sep 30, 2009)

"Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash. They are not paid to interfere with owners' usage. They're acting as if they own the place." -Pit 

Well the letter recently sent out by Starwood advising of the cut in services would indicate they are no longer interested in cleaning the toilets or taking out the trash.  They are acting very much as if they DON'T own the place (at least when it comes to maintenance).
Owners paid dearly for the refurbishment.  Now Starwood doesn't want to maintain those either.  Starwood had the nerve to ask owners not to complain about the changes because it would lower the trading power of the resort.  Their collusion with II seems to have ensured more lowering of the trading power than any complaints from owners could ever do.  

Sorry! A little off topic for this thread!

I am beginning to wonder though when action against Starwood is going to amount to more than and a discussion on the this board and become something Starwood has no choice but to take notice of.


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## ginja (Dec 5, 2009)

*Would love to expose Starwood SVO for the fraud that it is*

Count me in as a name to add to an list of complaints. I think that everything that Starwood sold to me was a pack of lies, it is bait and switch and probably fraud too. I'm not even talking about depositing weeks, I'm talking about the SVO network itself. I tried to book a trade within the SVO network only to be told by the reservations agent, "oh, your chances of getting into St. John on a trade through the SVO network are less then 10%, I'm always surprised when I see any days available it hardly ever is." So basically a few very lucky persons are able to get a trade into St. John by sheer luck, but the tens of thousands of others are just stuck with the short end of the stick.


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## pharmgirl (Dec 5, 2009)

ginja said:


> Count me in as a name to add to an list of complaints. I think that everything that Starwood sold to me was a pack of lies, it is bait and switch and probably fraud too. I'm not even talking about depositing weeks, I'm talking about the SVO network itself. I tried to book a trade within the SVO network only to be told by the reservations agent, "oh, your chances of getting into St. John on a trade through the SVO network are less then 10%, I'm always surprised when I see any days available it hardly ever is." So basically a few very lucky persons are able to get a trade into St. John by sheer luck, but the tens of thousands of others are just stuck with the short end of the stick.



EXACTLY  We bought a TIMESHARE in a name brand network so that we could trade into other desirable properties as well as enjoy our home property.  Otherwise why buy not rent


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## heathpack (Dec 5, 2009)

gmarine said:


> I'm also contacting the NY Times writer who did an article featuring TUG members back a few months ago. Myself and Cindy were interviewed for the article. I'm going to ask her to consider an article on one of the pitfalls of timesharing, specifically developers trying to take advantage of owners. I think it would make a great story.



Sorry, I know this does not have anything to do with Starwood, but there is also trouble in paradise for Hyatt owners, if your NY Times writer is interested but wants a bigger story.

I do sympthasize with ya'll however because the Starwood situation is much worse.  If I were a SVO owner, I promise I'd write a letter!

H


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## Garnet (Dec 8, 2009)

*Starwood Complaint-would like info*

Thank you for all your efforts in exposing Starwood and the recent change in policies.  Earlier this year, I purchased a WMH plat week for either use or exchange ONLY using request first with II.  I would like information on complaining to both Starwood and II, and any letters or information on how to best make my complaint heard.  mlsmn-I have also sent you an email.

Garnet


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## DeniseM (Dec 8, 2009)

Garnet said:


> Thank you for all your efforts in exposing Starwood and the recent change in policies.  Earlier this year, I purchased a WMH plat week for either use or exchange ONLY using request first with II.  I would like information on complaining to both Starwood and II, and any letters or information on how to best make my complaint heard.  mlsmn-I have also sent you an email.
> 
> Garnet



gmarine (George) is the point man on this effort - please click on his name and send him and email.


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## Phillydan (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm in on this.  A class-action lawsuit may be the best way to get their attention.  My son is a city attorney for Philadelphia and I spoke with him the other day about the SVO situation and the MF increases,  based on the information I provided him, he thought there are definitely grounds for a owner's lawsuit against SVO.

We own a week in Westin Kaanapali and Sheraton Vistiana EOY.


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## GeneNWendy (Jan 10, 2010)

*Owner at WSJ - Interested in knowing about your lawsuit*

Hi PhillyDan,

I own 2 weeks at the Westin St. John.  In the past two years, maintenance fees have doubled.  They are probably going to continue to increase.  To make a long story short, it appears that WSJ has purposely not performed maintenance on its units over the last few years in order to justify an upgrade in the units.  An upgrade was approved, but not by the 2/3 owner approval as stipulated in the by-laws.  The board of directors (3 of which are Starwood employees and 2 who are owners but act as puppets to Starwood) went around the by-laws and administratively approved these upgrades.  The bottom line is that many owners are abandoning their units and are being locked out by SVO.  Furthermore, those fees are being placed on the remaining owners in good standing.  Starwood justifies it in that it operates like a condominium and all owners are liable for the operating costs.  At the same time, the Westin rents out those vacant units at low prices for their friends and pocket the money.  They won't release any financial data.  We want to know where the money is going.  Unfortunately, without a class-action suit, we are unable to compel them to release their records.  

Perhaps your son could see if there is some sort of class-action suit that involves owners at several resorts collectively.  The problem us St. John owners face is that we would have to put up to much money to pay attorneys to constantly travel back and forth the St. John and put them up.  However, it seems like Starwood is messing with its owners everywhere!!  See what he thinks about this.

Regards,
GeneNWendy


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## skpark701 (Jan 10, 2010)

GeneNWendy said:


> Hi PhillyDan,
> 
> I own 2 weeks at the Westin St. John.  In the past two years, maintenance fees have doubled.  They are probably going to continue to increase.  To make a long story short, it appears that WSJ has purposely not performed maintenance on its units over the last few years in order to justify an upgrade in the units.  An upgrade was approved, but not by the 2/3 owner approval as stipulated in the by-laws.  The board of directors (3 of which are Starwood employees and 2 who are owners but act as puppets to Starwood) went around the by-laws and administratively approved these upgrades.  The bottom line is that many owners are abandoning their units and are being locked out by SVO.  Furthermore, those fees are being placed on the remaining owners in good standing.  Starwood justifies it in that it operates like a condominium and all owners are liable for the operating costs.  At the same time, the Westin rents out those vacant units at low prices for their friends and pocket the money.  They won't release any financial data.  We want to know where the money is going.  Unfortunately, without a class-action suit, we are unable to compel them to release their records.
> 
> ...



+1

I own a week at Kaanapali Westin and my maintenance fees have been increased substantially and most likely to increase again... It really is frustrating that SVO has control over my week and among other issues....


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## steveandalex (Jan 15, 2010)

We would also like to be included.
This price hike has left a bad taste.


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## SteveCA (Jan 19, 2010)

*Summary of Westin Kanapali fee hikes*

I've been a owner since 2003 (pre-opening) and here is what has hapened to our fees:

In 2004 the annual maintenance fee was $1050. In six years, the fee has more than doubled to $2349 for 2010, representing an average compounded increase of 14 percent per year (versus CPI increases of 3-4 percent annually). The current fees represent an annual amount, assuming 52 weeks of $122,148 per unit ($2349X52 weeks). Our unit has a total square footage of approximately 1400 square feet.

During the same 6-year period of 12/31/2003 to 12/31/09 the Honolulu CPI increased a total of 26 percent. Had the maintenance fee increased at the rate of CPI, the current maintenance fee would be $1323 per year, which is still excessive considering that this fee is for a one-week ownership. 

Starwood blames the huge increases on a variety of “external” factors including utility rates, recent property tax increases, etc. 

I don't know if this has happened at other resorts, but if it has, please update this thread.


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## DeniseM (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi Steve and welcome to TUG!  

Some of the other Starwood resorts have had increases just as high or even higher, and others have had more modest increases.

I don't know of any class-action law suit that is actually in progress, at this point, but this is certainly the place to discuss it.

Currently, the Maui tax hike is has been challenged by the resort, and the taxes are in escrow, pending a hearing.


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## SteveCA (Jan 20, 2010)

I too am not aware of any class action lawsuits at this time but what we can do is gather information on this thread so that there is a central database available.

I am aware of the tax appeal in Maui but the problem of ridiculous maintenance fee increases did not start this year. They have been going on for at least 3-4 years now with hikes at double and triple the rate of local inflation. Previously it was blamed on "energy prices" but if you stop and think about it, there is no way one can use that much energy in the space of one week. It's funny how the decrease last year in energy prices did not have any affect in the opposite direction.

What we have is an organization that is doing everything it can "get away" with until someone sues them and exposes the dirty laundry that is surely behind these exhorbinant increases.

There is simply no way you can spend over $100,000 per unit on maintenance unless you are completely remodeling the unit from the ground up. Yet they have been charging that much every year. Keep in mind that the Westin Kaanapali is only 5 years old. Just think what these thieves will try to charge when there is a real need for maintenance as opposed to touch up here and there. The real question is where all that money is going and is it being spent on necessary items as opposed to padding someones pocketbook at our collective expense! Everywhere you look, there is serious potential for major conflicts of interest. You have the proverbial fox guarding the chicken pen.


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## DeniseM (Jan 20, 2010)

I agree with you 100%, Steve.

Are you aware that there is a TUG member running for the BOD?  He's on the ballot you got in the mail this week - Jeff Hyman.


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## anappleaday (Jan 20, 2010)

Im definitely in.


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## naka4 (Jan 20, 2010)

My husband and I are in as well. Has anyone actually looked into starting a class action lawsuit? If not, let's do it!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 20, 2010)

It's good to see new people here, concerned about Starwood, and there have been conversations about a lawsuit amongst members here.


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## Lawlar (Jan 20, 2010)

*Fight the Good Fight*

May I suggest that, in addition to other actions you plan to take, everyone who is unhappy should do the following:

1.  File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.  Starwood would not like to see the BBB give it an unfavorable rating.   The BBB website would show consumers how many complaints have been filed  - that will serve as a warning to prospective buyers that Starwood treats its customers unfairly.  Its a cost effective way to voice your complaints.

2. File a complaint with your local attorney general’s office (consumer affairs). Same reasons as # 1.  Here is address list:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102785

3.  Whenever you stay at a Starwood resort, look for opportunities to warn prospective TS purchasers of the realities faced by owners (like outrageous MFs that keep increasing and rule changes that diminish the value of TS ownership).  I hang out around the pool and Jacuzzi – fertile grounds to warn the uninformed.  And I always mention TUG as a valuable resource.

Good luck to all Starwood owners.  Fight the Good Fight!


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## SteveCA (Jan 20, 2010)

yes I am and plan to vote for him. Unfortunately his bio is very truncated and may not convince non-tugger to vote for him.


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## DeniseM (Jan 20, 2010)

Steve - he was only allowed 100 words.


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## SteveCA (Jan 20, 2010)

*Funny, Mr. Henry has well over 100 words, must be a plant*

I guess we should vote against anyone with over 100 word on their bio as they must be Starwood puppets.


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## SteveCA (Jan 20, 2010)

Over the course of my 6 years of staying at the resort, I have saved a number of potential victims from suffering our shared fate and will continue to do so each and every year I visit. BTW, the BBQ area is great for that as well.



Lawlar said:


> May I suggest that, in addition to other actions you plan to take, everyone who is unhappy should do the following:
> 
> 1.  File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.  Starwood would not like to see the BBB give it an unfavorable rating.   The BBB website would show consumers how many complaints have been filed  - that will serve as a warning to prospective buyers that Starwood treats its customers unfairly.  Its a cost effective way to voice your complaints.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

SteveCA said:


> I guess we should vote against anyone with over 100 word on their bio as they must be Starwood puppets.



My guess is that Starwood lifted their info. from their Starwood approved applications.

In case you don't know - Starwood accepts, screens, and "approves" candidates - the other two are undoubtably "Starwood approved."  Jeff circumvented this procedure by looking up the local law and discovering that Starwood has no right to screen and approve candidates, and they had to put him on the ballot....

Not that he's not totally qualified - Jeff is an attorney as well as being an informed owner.

Probably a little too well informed to pass the Starwood screening process....not to mention his dubious affiliation with TUG!


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## SteveCA (Jan 21, 2010)

Back in 2003 when I first bought my timeshare, the sales people suggested that I look into becoming a board member because of my concerns about uncontrolled management fees and the inherent conflict of interest that could easily develop between Starwood and owners. I put together a comprehensive bio stating my qualifications and my objective of ensuring the highest quality standards for our resort while keeping costs under tight financial control. 

At the time, I had 25 years of financial management experience. My bio and enclosed resume was apparently not what Starwood was looking for so they never responded to my application. I should have known back then to dump my timeshare on the secondary market but stupidly held onto it. They purposely rejected my application because I would have been way too knowledgeable and would not have allowed the Starwood organization to freely conduct its financial affairs without proper board oversight.

My enclosed resume highlighted the following:

Certified Public Accountant previously with Deloitte and Touche with significant audit experience

Corporate Accounting Manager and Assistant Treasurer for a Fortune 500 Pharmaceutical company

Vice President of Finance for a multi-billion dollar publicly traded software company

A long history of optimizing company financial performance while maintaining strict cost controls.

I'm pretty sure the "strict cost controls" was the deal killer. Strict cost controls would prohibit single bid contracts, it would prohibit unfair and inappropriate allocation of expenses between Starwood and owners. It would require open and fair pricing for all the dealings between Starwood and the HOA. The list goes on.


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## Ken555 (Jan 21, 2010)

Steve,

It's not too late! Every HOA Board needs people with your experience. Now that everyone knows SVN cannot control who is on the ballet, I suggest you try again next year.


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## l2trade (Jan 21, 2010)

Ken555 said:


> Steve,
> 
> It's not too late! Every HOA Board needs people with your experience. Now that everyone knows SVN cannot control who is on the ballet, I suggest you try again next year.



I strongly 2nd that motion!  Steve, please run next year!


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## gregb (Jan 21, 2010)

Does anyone know the length of office for a Board Member?  I expect that it is longer than a single year because in the 3 years I have owned at WKORVN I have not seen any board member elections mentioned on the Proxy.

Greg


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## SteveCA (Jan 22, 2010)

*Perhaps next year*

If I don't dump my investment by next year, I will definitely run. i suspect a big uphill battle though. They will not let an outsider with my background in without a hell of a fight. It is way too risky for them so they will fight it tooth and nail imho.


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## lamarjames (Jan 22, 2010)

@ Steve;
You can count on my votes next year also. 
As to any class action I would support that completely.
We will be at WKORV this Feb-March and will certainly let people know about the MF's, what has occurred and what I expect to take place in the future.


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## DeniseM (Jan 22, 2010)

SteveCA - I believe that WKORV has 2 boards - one for the apartments and one for the facilities they share with WRKOV-N, so it's entirely possible there there will be another election this year, if you are interested.


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## GeneNWendy (Feb 6, 2010)

*Complaint against WSJ MF's and Starwood's response*

This was a complaint by one owner to Starwood about the outrageous maintenance fee increases at the Westin St. John and their response to it.  I find it especially interesting how it is used to get around the 2/3 ownership approval requirement stipulated in their own by-laws!!  Below the complaint is Starwood's B.S. repsonse to these owners.

GeneNWendy



Initial Letter to Starwood

Subject: Westin St John MF Increases Unconscienable!!!

Dear Aixia Garcia:

This missive is long overdue but I want to express my total displeasure regarding the oversight and mis-management of the Starwood vacation ownership board, the starwood alliance and anyone else that may be responsible for the exorbitant MF cost increases over the last 10 years. 

My wife and I fell in love with St John and decided to purchase our (one bedroom villa) timeshares at the Westin St John back in 1999.  Contrary to the sales pitch provided when we purchased our weeks, we never were under the misguided impression that the purchase would be a "Great Investment".  However, we did believe that in the long run after the initial purchase price was covered, we could expect a lifetime worth of vacations at a reasonable price.  This has, painfully, not been the case. 

Since we purchased our timeshares our MF's have increase from $450.00/week to over $2400.00/week!!!  That's a 530% increase and TOTALLY UNSAT!  A couple of years ago the SWDVO board attempted to implement a "one time (over 3 years) refurbishment fee above the cost of the yearly refurbishment fees already billed.  This was put out to the owners for a vote and I voted NO!!  Because this measure didn't get the requisite percentage of votes the plan had to be scuttled.  

This lack of interest was not good enough for the board.  In their infinite wisdom, they decided that they would unilaterally implement the refurbishment fees even though approval was not granted by the owners.  I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe that this is legal.  I can't help but believe that the motive behind this move was to assist in selling the new villas that were and still under construction.  It's difficult to sell new timeshares  using units with dated decor and artist renderings alone........  I believe that the existing refurbishment fees and a corporate "kick in" should have been enough to support the upgrades.   Our villa only rec'd normal wear and tear upgrades should have already been covered.  

In addition to the refurbishment increase, it was noted on this years bill that the existing ownership had to cover the costs of those owners that are foreclosing due to the poor economy.  This may be true but I believe that the economy coupled with the "Ever Increasing" maintenance fees are pushing most folks in this direction.  My family is no stranger to the affects of the poor economy as my wife has been out of work for a year and a half and we're at the breaking point.  Because of your actions, wittingly or not, you're setting up a vicious cycle of foreclosures to resales/rentals scenarios.  It seems that Starwood just can't lose!!!

In closing, we're currently in a bind regarding the future of our vacation ownership.  At this point we're not sure if we should sell, rent or opt to totally ruin our credit and foreclose?  We need to know what the SVO management thinks of the situation?  How are you fighting for us to keep the costs down?  What are your plans for refunding our, what I believe to be, unlawful MF/refurbishment assessments?  Are the corporate officers aware of the situation?  How can I contact them myself to express the frustration of the ownership community?

A quick email response to the above issues would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Westin St. John Owner




Starwood’s response to these owners

Dear Westin St. John owner, 

Thank you for contacting Association Management.

As you are already aware the Westin St. John Board of Directors proposed a refurbishment project. In order to address immediate needs to refurbish the property, two attempts were made to obtain an approving vote of the membership to pass a special assessment to fund the refurbishment.  Those votes were not sufficient.  Although the majority of those who cast votes were in favor of the assessment to fund a refurbishment project, there were not enough votes cast to reach the requisite level of approval, and therefore the project could not commence at that time.  Had the special assessment vote been successful, the funds could have been obtained to move forward with the project at that time. Obtaining the funds through a special assessment is substantially different than obtaining the funds by increasing the budgeted reserves.  A special assessment would have created an almost immediate cash flow allowing the project to begin at that time, but required a vote of the owners.  Increasing the reserves contribution in the budget means the refurbishment project will not get underway as soon as it could have, but it is the Board that has the authority to adopt the budget without the requirement of an owner vote. 

The Board approved to fund the project by increasing the reserves contribution in the budget over the coming years.  This will affect the 2009, 2010, and 2011 budgets. 

The Board of Directors and the Association reviews and analyzes all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase. Their goal is to bill out fees without sacrificing the level of amenity that you as an owner have come to expect.  They must also ensure the resort continues to meet certain brand standards.  

Many items in the annual operating budget are not fixed expenses and are outside of the control of the Board of Directors. These items include:  utilities, insurance, and supplier cost. In addition, the cost of business in the island has increased which has created a big impact in the amount billed annually.
Unfortunately your Association has been adversely impacted by the current economy.  The increase in owner delinquency has created a shortfall in the Association's cash flow. The Board will continue to reinforce collection efforts to recover lost funds.   In addition the Board of Directors has implemented cost savings initiatives to minimize any shortfall which includes energy audits, compact-fluorescent bulbs, and a reduction in the maximum hours hourly employees can work. The Board of Directors and the Association will continue to analyze alternate options to stabilize and secure the Association’s finances. A working capital reserve fund is being added to insure that the association doesn’t run out of funds in the future.
Being a condominium, all Owners share the responsibility for ensuring that the Association meets these obligations. As the economy improves and delinquencies eventually decline, allowances will be re-evaluated for a potential reduction. However for now, we must all share in ensuring expenses are fully paid and uncollectible accounts provisioned. 
We hope this gives you a better understanding of the situation. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to contacting us. 
Sincerely, 
Aixa Garcia
Correspondence Coordinator 
SVO Management Inc.


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## GeneNWendy (Feb 11, 2010)

*Over $100K per unit is outrageous!!*

Hi Steve,

Look at my posting item #327 on Westin St John/merged.  With upgrades, maintenance on our 2 bedroom units and pool villas in St. John are coming close to $180,000 per year!!







SteveCA said:


> I too am not aware of any class action lawsuits at this time but what we can do is gather information on this thread so that there is a central database available.
> 
> I am aware of the tax appeal in Maui but the problem of ridiculous maintenance fee increases did not start this year. They have been going on for at least 3-4 years now with hikes at double and triple the rate of local inflation. Previously it was blamed on "energy prices" but if you stop and think about it, there is no way one can use that much energy in the space of one week. It's funny how the decrease last year in energy prices did not have any affect in the opposite direction.
> 
> ...


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 11, 2010)

GeneNWendy - do not forget that in 2008 there was a doubling of the replacement reserve (within the MFs) that was suppose to be for limited refurbish - which was done because parts of our villa were refurbished before the Special assessment (that wasn't voted on).'

btw - to be clear - I voted 'YES' to the initial refurbish vote because our villa was in deep need of remodeling - the owner of week 23 at the time (now our week) and I even offered to buy a new couch for the villa out of our own pocket because the one we had was in such poor shape it was unusable (unless passed out from drinking too much rum - like my brother did... lol).  Also, Robin wanted the kitchen redone - especialy since we tend to stay in more and cook at the villa.    I am personally in favor of the remodel and glad they went forward with the refurbish.  Other Owners that I spoke with (limited) were also in favor and voted 'yes'.  What happened - due to poor management, database systems, etc on WSJ/SVO's part - is that not enough Owners voted and the they were stuck since bylaws required a minimum number of votes that was not attained.  Then, from what I can tell, decided to go forth with it without proper approval for the good of the resort (at least that is what I believe their argumant is...).  Am I in support of a lawsuit - even if it is over the illegal refurbish vote which we supported? Yes, but only to get the attention of WSJ HOA BOD and SVO Corporate about MF and transparency issues - and this appears to be the best path forward in getting their attention.

What I am not in favor of is the lack of transparency - and that our base MFs have skyrocketed due to mismanagement, and SVO's and WSJ's policies on how they deal with vacant villas due to deliquent owners (like throughout SVO) in their ability (or lack of) getting the HOAs reimbursed.


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## GeneNWendy (Feb 28, 2010)

*Taking action against Starwood for outrageous maintenance fees*

As many of you know, the owners at the Westin St. John are planning a class-action suit against Starwood for breaking many laws and using the owners of it's Virgin Grand Villas as ATM machines. We are also planning to launch a negative PR campaign against Starwood. The last thing they want is for their reputation to be tarnished, especially with the FTC and SEC watching over them in these post Bernie Madoff days. I suggest that people with rising fees at all Starwood resorts look at the string we created in Yahoo Finance. See below how to access it. Propective buyers of Starwood stock will read this. This can only hurt them. Maybe enough of this will get them to change their ways with respect to their timeshare owners.


I posted the string in yahoofinance.com. It would be helpful to let the folks know on the website that they can go to www.yahoofinance.com. Get a stock quote for HOT(Starwood's exchange acronym), which will bring up the Starwood trade history and message board on the left side. Click on that and look for the string "possible legal against starwood" and post a comment.


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## GeneNWendy (Feb 28, 2010)

*New website for owners of WSJ Virgin Grand Villas*

Check out the following links for information on action being taken by owners at Westin St. John.  For a general discussion and posting of ideas amongst member, check out the Forum below.  For articles giving general information about various issues, check out the Blog.  For lawsuit info, check out the main site.




http://www.stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/Forum/
http://www.stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/Blog/
http://www.stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com


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## TimW1 (Mar 2, 2010)

*http://www.bbb.org/us/*

Hello, everyone!  I am fairly new to TUG.  I have been reading and learning for the past 9 months.  My wife and I own timeshare week 19 WSJ.  Thank you to everyone who have voiced their frustration and opinion.  To those who have shared their good experiences as well I thank you greatly too.  We duly appreciate everything.  

I filed a complaint.  I don't know if it will come to anything, but I thought I would give out some info to save some time for those searching for the info themselves for the BBB.


http://www.bbb.org/us/



Here is some info that you will need to fill out the online form:


http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/contactus/index.jsp
Association Management
800.729.8246
email:   boardrelations00svo@starwoodvo.com

you can put the company's name and city and state and it does not recognize it, so the website tells you to manually enter the information by clicking next. (I hope this makes sense)


For those who read this before I edited this, please forgive me.  Another pop up screen is supposed to come up, but I have a blocker.  And it sends you to the Florida BBB to fill out their form.  You need to have spoken with a couple of people and have names and addresses ready so be prepared or you will have to look it up.  It is a bit of monkey business and took me some time to find all of the persons and then find addresses for where I spoke with them.  Very time consuming.  I don't know how this is going to work out.  I may end up calling next week and speak with someone on the phone.  I think it would have been easier????

The site that will handle the complaint will be:

BBB of Central Florida
(Longwood, FL)
1600 S. Grant St.
Longwood, FL 32750
Phone: (407)621-3300
Fax: (407)786-2625
Email: info@centralflorida.bbb.org
Web: http://www.orlando.bbb.org


I hope I helped.  

Thanks!

Tim


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## GeneNWendy (Mar 8, 2010)

*Adding to TimW's suggestion in prior posting*

Hello everyone,

I agree completely with TimW that everyone should file a complaint against Starwood with the Better Business Bureau using the information he provided in the prior posting.  However, I believe that everyone should also file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).  You may contact them a number of ways:

Telephone 1-877-382-4357

E-Mail https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Mailing Address:

Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC  20580

When filing your complaint, you can use the same company info provided in Tim's posting.  It is important to note that it does not matter which Starwood resort you own at.  Starwood is a publicly traded company on the U.S. Stock Exchange and as such is subject to strict regulations by the FTC and SEC.  If the FTC gets the feeling that there is wrongdoing on the part of Starwood, they will be thoroughly investigated.  Look what happened to Enron and Bernie Madoff.

It's important to know that the FTC will not investigate on just a handful of complaints.  I'm sure if they get several hundred, they will do so.

GeneNWendy


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## jarta (Mar 8, 2010)

I went to the Orlando BBB link and secrched for Starwood.  Here's what came up:

"Reported on Monday, March 8, 2010 1:28 PM

BBB Accreditation 
BBB Rating 
Business Contact and Profile 
Alternate Business Names
Products and Services 
Additional Locations and Phone Numbers 
Licensing 
Customer Complaint History 
Government Actions 
Advertising Review 
Additional Information 
BBB AccreditationBack To Top BBB has determined that this business meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.

BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services.
BBB RatingBack To Top Based on BBB files, *this business has a BBB Rating of A+*
Click here for an explanation of BBB Ratings.
Business Contact and ProfileBack To Top Name: *Starwood Vacation Ownership *Phone: (407) 903-4312 
Address: 9002 San Marco Court, Orlando, FL 32819
      Google map  Mapquest map  Yahoo map  
Business Category: Vacation Time Share, Real Estate Developers, Resorts, Travel Clubs 
eMail: consumeraffairs@starwoodvo.com 
Web Address: www.starwoodvo.com 
BBB file opened: July 12, 1983 
Business started: July 1980 
Primary Contact: Mr. Joseph Hernandez (Consumer Affairs) 
Complaint Contact: Mr. Joseph Hernandez (Consumer Affairs) 
Other Contacts: Ms. Laura Garrity
Ms. Tabitha Rogers
Ms. Carla Smith"

Maybe you can get BBB to change that rating.   But, I would think you need specific reasons before BBB will do that.   ...   eom


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## jarta (Mar 8, 2010)

SBP has its own accreditation:

"Find out more about this business:
 BBB Accreditation
 BBB Rating
 Business Contact and Profile
 Business Management
 Additional Locations and Phone Numbers
 Licensing
 Customer Complaint History
  Government Actions
 Advertising Review
 Industry Tips
 BBB Copyright and Reporting Policy



Back to top 
BBB Accreditation
This company has been a BBB Accredited business since January 1998. This means it supports BBB's services to the public and meets our BBB Accreditation standards.


Back to top 
BBB Rating
*Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of B+ on a scale from A+ to F.
Reasons for this rating include:
9 complaints filed against business*
Click here for an explanation of BBB Ratings



Back to top 
Business Contact and Profile 
Name: Sheraton Broadway Plantation 
Phone: (843) 913-3562 
Fax: (843) 913-3540 
Address: 3301 Robert Grissom Pkwy

 Myrtle Beach, SC 29577-6402 
 Google Map 
Original Business Start Date: January 1980 
Local Start Date: May 1997 
New Owner Date: January 2001 
Principal: Paul Larkin, Document Administration Manager 
Customer Contact: Mr. Don James, DOS - (843) 913-3555 or Don.James@Starwoodvo.com 
Employees: 200 
Type of Business: Timeshare Companies, Resorts-Vacation Time Share, Vacation Time Share 
BBB Accreditation: This organization is a BBB Accredited business. 
Additional DBA Names: Starwood Vacation Ownership
Broadway Plantation Horizontal Property
Vistana MB


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## GeneNWendy (Mar 11, 2010)

*Class-action against all Starwood timeshare resorts?*

I was wondering if anyone on here has thought about trying to start a class-action suit against all Starwood Timeshare Resorts collectively?  As an owner at the Westin St. John, I can tell you that Starwood has broken the law by authorizing upgrades without the 2/3 ownership requirement stipulated in their own by-laws.  They've also acted in bad faith in multiple ways.  

However, I seem to be reading that we're not alone in St. John.  There seem to be problems with ridiculously high maintenance fees at all of the Starwood Timeshare Resorts.  I believe I read somewhere on Tug that their annual increases are roughly 10%-15% vs. an industry average of 3%-5%.

We've been running into an uphill battle trying to get a class-action suit going in St. John partly because of it's location.  No law firm in the mainland is going to take on a case there without collecting fees upfront.  However, if owners at the other resorts (particularly in the mainland U.S. and Hawaii) have issues, perhaps a law firm would consider taking on Starwood as a whole.


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## mwoody5569 (Mar 13, 2010)

*I would gladly join a class action suit*

My maintenance fees in 2 years have gone up over $1000 a yr. in Hawaii.  Where is the rental money going?
I pay more in maintenace fees on my 2 weeks here than I do on my condo on an annual basis.
They lie at the sale and there is no disclosure on the expenditure of funds and owners say in how they are spent.  
I am a platinum member here and have been for years- but I consider leaving them everyday for ripping me off.
-Woody


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## ginja (Mar 18, 2010)

*Perhaps another way to make Starwood wake up and listen*

We are all preaching to the choir here. The people on this forum already own a Starwood TS and are talking to other owners who are frustrated and angry about how Starwood is treating them, but it is a closed circuit. There is an article / video about Virgin America airline on CNN today that everyone here should see. http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/17/virgin.america.flight/index.html?hpt=C1 Basically a guy captured his bad experience with Virgin on his phone with pictures and videos, he posted them on social media and the CEO of Virgin ended up calling him and together the discuseed what should be done/how the customers should be compensated. The only reason the CEO reacted was because the complaint was made public and their brand was being tarnished. Bottom line is Starwood doesn't care about us, they've already got our money, but if you start messing with their future potential revenue *new customers* then you will see them start to listen and hopefully react. "You can't just write in a complaint or call customer service anymore... social media, it's the only weapon," Get your cell phone and video ready and warm up your Facebook accounts...


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## jerseygirl (Mar 18, 2010)

I agree Ginga ... we need to new weapons.

Nodge -- how's that youtube video coming along?  Didn't we put you in charge of that a few  months ago?


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## GeneNWendy (Mar 18, 2010)

*Regarding to Forum*

Ginja,

Are you referring to the Forum we set up for WSJ owners?  If you are, you're missing the point.  That Forum was set up as a means for WSJ owners to communicate with one another about various issues instead of constantly sending mass e-mails back and forth between hundreds of people at a time.  We are implementing some of the things you suggested below and more.  

Not only are we discouraging sales of the new WSJ timeshares called Bay Vista, but we are notifying the FTC and SEC about what we believe to be unlawful practices on the part of Starwood.  Starwood is a publicly traded company and the smallest possibility that they are breaking the law or not acting in good faith could tarnish their image.

Furthermore, we are asking our owners to write to our Congressman and complain.  Even if most Congressman don't have constituents at the Westin St. John, they probably have some at other Starwood timeshare locations.  It appears that there are problems at all of them.  Any pressure put on Starwood by Congress and these regulatory agencies will make our job easier in the long run.  In the end, we are looking to file a class-action lawsuit if everything else fails.  We're really hoping it doesn't come to that, but we will go t hat route if necessary.








ginja said:


> We are all preaching to the choir here. The people on this forum already own a Starwood TS and are talking to other owners who are frustrated and angry about how Starwood is treating them, but it is a closed circuit. There is an article / video about Virgin America airline on CNN today that everyone here should see. http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/17/virgin.america.flight/index.html?hpt=C1 Basically a guy captured his bad experience with Virgin on his phone with pictures and videos, he posted them on social media and the CEO of Virgin ended up calling him and together the discuseed what should be done/how the customers should be compensated. The only reason the CEO reacted was because the complaint was made public and their brand was being tarnished. Bottom line is Starwood doesn't care about us, they've already got our money, but if you start messing with their future potential revenue *new customers* then you will see them start to listen and hopefully react. "You can't just write in a complaint or call customer service anymore... social media, it's the only weapon," Get your cell phone and video ready and warm up your Facebook accounts...


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## NerdAlert (May 18, 2010)

*Class action = useless, 99% of time*

Same old story. Class members get coupons, lawyers running the case get millions. What's the sense?


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## DavidnRobin (May 19, 2010)

NerdAlert said:


> Same old story. Class members get coupons, lawyers running the case get millions. What's the sense?



Not sure what you mean here?  What class action suit?  You mean someone brought up the subject - and now it is fact?  What is your intent here?


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## NerdAlert (May 20, 2010)

Over the years we have been involved in various class action suits from airlines, computers, consumer products to RCI...Same old story. People in the class get squat (or a coupon for squat with your next purchase) and the law firms running the suit get millions of dollars...Nothing implied specific to Starwood.


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## Ken555 (May 20, 2010)

NerdAlert said:


> Over the years we have been involved in various class action suits from airlines, computers, consumer products to RCI...Same old story. People in the class get squat (or a coupon for squat with your next purchase) and the law firms running the suit get millions of dollars...Nothing implied specific to Starwood.



I believe that the Starwood owners on this forum are discussing a class action lawsuit as a means to force change upon SVN, not for monetary benefits.


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## jarta (May 20, 2010)

Ken,   ...   As an attorney, I can tell you that filing a suit without a threat that money will be awarded is usually fruitless.  

And, as NerdAlert says, most class actions end with coupons to the plaintiffs and millions to the attorneys for the class.  The attorneys for the class end up selling out their clients.   ...   eom


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## Ken555 (May 20, 2010)

jarta said:


> Ken,   ...   As an attorney, I can tell you that filing a suit without a threat that money will be awarded is usually fruitless.
> 
> And, as NerdAlert says, most class actions end with coupons to the plaintiffs and millions to the attorneys for the class.  The attorneys for the class end up selling out their clients.   ...   eom



Err... my point was not that monetary penalties should be applied, but that the expectation of those behind the suit were not those of purely monetary. They want change. Wasn't that obvious from my post? ...


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## jarta (May 20, 2010)

Ken,   ...   "Err... my point was not that monetary penalties should be applied, but that the expectation of those behind the suit were not those of purely monetary."

Actually, what you said is this: "I believe that the Starwood owners on this forum are discussing a class action lawsuit as a means to force change upon SVN, not for monetary benefits."

Not for monetary benefits means not for monetary benefits.

And my point was that asking for change without asking for money is usually fruitless.   ...   eom


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## Ken555 (May 20, 2010)

jarta said:


> Ken,   ...   "Err... my point was not that monetary penalties should be applied, but that the expectation of those behind the suit were not those of purely monetary."
> 
> Actually, what you said is this: "I believe that the Starwood owners on this forum are discussing a class action lawsuit as a means to force change upon SVN, not for monetary benefits."
> 
> ...



Only a lawyer would have confusion over my earlier post.


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## DavidnRobin (May 20, 2010)

Ken555 said:


> Only a lawyer would have confusion over my earlier post.



ignore function = improved TUG experience


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## dspring (May 22, 2010)

I like the idea of using social media to expand the reach.  It would be nice to create some sort of registration of SVO owners by location and then campaign to get owners to register - via these blogs, e-mails/calls to friends who are owners, handing out cards to owners when we are staying at our resorts to try to get them to register.  With a higher % of owners that can be contacted, we would have a better chance of voicing our concerns - SVO Annual Fees, Maui Property Tax, St John expenses, etc. and also voting in boards who will look out for the best interest of owners.  If we can somehow take votes on certain issues with a % turnout, we can get mgt to listen.  I am a 5* Elite and have loved the resorts and the program, but the fees are crazy and it is frustrating to get so little info from the the boards and not really having a voice to ask for change.  Anyone have any ideas on how we can get signed up under one place?  Don


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## timeos2 (May 22, 2010)

*Maybe Yahoo Groups would work bv*



dspring said:


> I like the idea of using social media to expand the reach.  It would be nice to create some sort of registration of SVO owners by location and then campaign to get owners to register - via these blogs, e-mails/calls to friends who are owners, handing out cards to owners when we are staying at our resorts to try to get them to register.  With a higher % of owners that can be contacted, we would have a better chance of voicing our concerns - SVO Annual Fees, Maui Property Tax, St John expenses, etc. and also voting in boards who will look out for the best interest of owners.  If we can somehow take votes on certain issues with a % turnout, we can get mgt to listen.  I am a 5* Elite and have loved the resorts and the program, but the fees are crazy and it is frustrating to get so little info from the the boards and not really having a voice to ask for change.  Anyone have any ideas on how we can get signed up under one place?  Don



Back when we were fighting our then developer/management for resort control we set up an owners group on Yahoo. Today it has about 600 members & a strong "community" feel.  It helped do the job of garnering owner support back when it was desperately needed and since has gone on to be a sounding board for suggestions, complaints and kudos to the Board and Management. Free & easy to set up. Then you just have to get the word out (the toughest part). Good luck!


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