# Another Infamous Owner Update



## ClimbingPyramids (Jun 26, 2012)

Hello all:   
     I am currently staying at Wyndham Fairfield Glade resort with an adult child and some of his friends in two 2-bedroom deluxe units.  I've been here several times before, and like the individual units and the resort facilities.  When checking in I agreed, I'm not sure why, to let a representative deliver a welcome gift to my unit.  I think I take a perverse pleasure in seeing just what the latest gambits are, and how convincing are the rep's apologies for all the other Wyndham personnel who have lied and pressured owners.  I'm also getting good at this; I think I actually drove them away, in a far more abrupt departure than is usual.  It really isn't that difficult to point out the errors of fact and logic in their presentation.
    In any event, one of the claims this woman made is that if one buys Wyndham points resale, that they are only good at the particular resort with which they're associated - _i.e_., you can't use them in the Wyndham system to book time at other resorts.  I told her that this wasn't true - she gave me that "you poor benighted owner" look - but am wondering if anyone else has heard this claim. It's hard to see why anyone would buy retail, even at the bargain basement prices, if this were true.  Has anyone else heard this line?  Thanks.


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## timeos2 (Jun 26, 2012)

This nonsense has been used for years. As the resale points anyone buys are UDI or deeded time with specific use rights in the Wyndham system that cannot be removed it is absolutely untrue that they can be restricted that way. Even converted fixed weeks remain in the points system on resale unless the fee payments are allowed to become delinquent. But that is not a normal thing and would only apply in those limited cases. 

Ignore it - it is just more weasel speak & nothing more.


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## e.bram (Jun 26, 2012)

Just take the freebies and say no thanks.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jun 26, 2012)

ClimbingPyramids said:


> In any event, one of the claims this woman made is that if one buys Wyndham points resale, that they are only good at the particular resort with which they're associated - _i.e_., you can't use them in the Wyndham system to book time at other resorts.  I told her that this wasn't true - she gave me that "you poor benighted owner" look - but am wondering if anyone else has heard this claim. It's hard to see why anyone would buy retail, even at the bargain basement prices, if this were true.  Has anyone else heard this line?  Thanks.


If you buy resale UDI points and pay the monthly fee to Wyndham to have your points in the Wyndham system, they cannot disallow you from using what you are paying for.  They would not be UDI points, but a floating or fixed week at the resort instead. 

If you pay both a POA maintenance fee and a Program Fee every year, you expect to be able to use your points the same as any other person paying those fees for UDI points.  That includes trading your points in the Wyndham system and through your RCI account...whether your points are retail or resale.  Points are points.  Ask her if she is really so ignorant as to believe that baloney?

Another good question for her is: why would you ever consider buying something for so much money that it would be (according to her definition)essentially valueless when you wanted to get rid of it?  Any retail points you would buy from her would be resale points when you tried to sell them later.

It's like looking at trade-in value when you buy a car.  Why would you buy something from a sales person who promises you what she's selling will have zero trade-in value later on?

Wyndham sales has been working overtime to totally devalue what they are trying to sell.


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## antjmar (Jun 26, 2012)

ClimbingPyramids said:


> Hello all:
> rrors of fact and logic in their presentation.
> In any event, one of the claims this woman made is that if one buys Wyndham points resale, that they are only good at the particular resort with which they're associated - _i.e_., you can't use them in the Wyndham system to book time at other resorts.  I told her that this wasn't true - she gave me that "you poor benighted own


I've heard the same thing!  dont worry...
Last year they told me that it would start in 2012 after I questioned how was I able to book the resort I was staying at since I dont own here?


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## retailman (Jun 26, 2012)

What was the freebee to listen to that garbage.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 26, 2012)

First heard this lying  scam circa 2001. A more sadistic version is your  red hot  vacation reservation is going to be cancelled   since a Developer purchaser wants.

Deeded rights cannot be changed. VOI Trust is in writing.

The only thing that can be changed /eliminated  are those great VIP benefits.

Like any of their lies tell them to show you written document or shut up and get you checked out!


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## rrlongwell (Jun 26, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> First heard this lying  scam circa 2001. A more sadistic version is your  red hot  vacation reservation is going to be cancelled   since a Developer purchaser wants.
> 
> Deeded rights cannot be changed. VOI Trust is in writing.
> 
> ...



This one is better than the demand to leave the resort because you would not make a new purchase.


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## yumdrey (Jun 27, 2012)

retailman said:


> What was the freebee to listen to that garbage.



I stayed at Wyndham Canterbury last week and offer was "2 nights free parking" which was about $60.
I had to laugh... Isn't worth 90 min sitting during my precious vacation.


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## ClimbingPyramids (Jun 28, 2012)

*Thanks for the Feedback*

hello everyone

   Thanks for your posts.  I knew that this wasn't true, I just hadn't heard this particular whopper before.  It is funny that if you listen closely, the things the sales reps - I mean "customer satisfaction specialists" - say don't make logical sense even in their own terms.  This makes me curious, though, about what other lies I haven't heard yet.


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## momeason (Jun 28, 2012)

ClimbingPyramids said:


> hello everyone
> 
> Thanks for your posts.  I knew that this wasn't true, I just hadn't heard this particular whopper before.  It is funny that if you listen closely, the things the sales reps - I mean "customer satisfaction specialists" - say don't make logical sense even in their own terms.  This makes me curious, though, about what other lies I haven't heard yet.



You've heard them and just have not discovered they are lies yet. My first owner update in 2007..
Cannot use points the same as retail buyers. Your Interval membership will not be paid. I said it is being paid. She said..it won't be next year..just a first time freebie. Nothing was true.

I am believing that possibly they are trained as these things being the truth. They have high turnover. I theorize that maybe some of them believe what they are saying. I know, I am suggesting that some of them may not know they are
" misrepresenting" the truth.
 It is a stretch,but benefit of the doubt and all.


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## Rent_Share (Jun 28, 2012)

momeason said:


> I am believing that possibly they are trained as these things being the truth. They have high turnover. I theorize that maybe some of them believe what they are saying. I know, I am suggesting that some of them may not know they are " misrepresenting" the truth. It is a stretch,but benefit of the doubt and all.


 

Why do they magically unilaterally tell the same "truths" at multiple resorts ?


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## timeos2 (Jun 28, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Why do they magically unilaterally tell the same "truths" at multiple resorts ?



And for over a decade....


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## geekette (Jun 28, 2012)

because the same old tired lines are still working on someone.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 28, 2012)

ClimbingPyramids said:


> hello everyone
> 
> Thanks for your posts.  I knew that this wasn't true, I just hadn't heard this particular whopper before.  It is funny that if you listen closely, the things the sales reps - I mean "customer satisfaction specialists" - say don't make logical sense even in their own terms.  This makes me curious, though, about what other lies I haven't heard yet.




You have hit the nail on head if one decides to do battle with sales people. After BS just say  have to hit rest room, grab  a coke and analyze. Their lies are so outrageous one just need to  clear their head to expose.

 Ask and you will receive!

Resale points do not qualify for VIP Benefits per page 287 of owners manual (true) nor can they be used at new resorts, can only be used at home resort and can only book 60 days out! If Developer purchaser wants your reservation will be cancelled.

You missed special once in lifetime upgrade offer. I will get special permission from Main Man for wavier since you are an unfortunate victim of lost mail! Sales person is practically in tears!

This is not sales pitch just a 10 minute owner survey so we can better meet your needs!  Think guy in NO with T-shirt that   says I  am offical rescuer, just lay down and relax. Just call  housekeeping about problem with TV.


They neglected to mark your purchase as resale so I can get you to VIP if you just buy a few points from me!

I am your personal representative and I have access to shakers and movers. Just call me and I will do everything for you and with a couple months notice can get you Mardi Gras, Daytona Race Week, Christmas, President's week, you name it, you got it. Just give me $20K! Go to VIP and I will  show you cancel and rebook that guarantees you will use all your discounts.


Since Wyndham owns RCI  there is  special program where you get 28K  deals you will not believe!


Just give me   10  friends, relatives, etc. names  and phone number  for referall and if they buy you don't pay any MF for a year or get say $100 each. Read,  you go  home and get  speared for sicing  telemarketers  on  people!

My secret sources have told me MF at your resort are going to about double, so you need to buy some points from me and I will issue a new consolidated deed where MF are cheaper saving you lots of money!

VIP is only way to go, but no mention it is a sales incentive subject to change or termination at will!

No mention that VOA(3 Wyndham Executives) run the railroad and you have no vote in what goes on!

You get a free RCI membership when you buy from me today!. Normally costs $89 a year!

Wyndham is biggest time share developer in world and has been doing since day of great flood so they have set MF and other fees realistically and they seldom increase much!

By buying today you are locking in your future vacation costs unto eternity! Points are locked in deed and will never change. No mention that new resorts simply charge a lot more points for same size unit!

Since Wyndham owns RCI you can easily do an exchange to Hawaii( where ever) next month with no trouble! Wyndham has special phone lines.

The e-bay sales are cheap as they are no good properties with high MF that people could not use and want to get rid of!  Many have  clouded deeds. No mention that points are generic!

Sales manger said  he would waive  any payments for  6 months  if you put down 20%  today so you can win lottery and pay cash.

This first day incentive package I am offering is only available to you today and I will be boiled in oil if I try to offer it later!
 Then why does Discovery guy offer to lock in for a year?


I will give you  four great RCI vouchers that will give you  4 extra vacations for free!


Wyndham has all sorts of ways you can use your points/membership such as cruises, paying MF, Disney tickets, etc. and with our 810K+ owners (includes WM) members can get you best deals on all your travel needs! Better than having your own personal travel agent and is free!

This resort is such high demand the only way you can stay here is to own. But, I am staying here. Deafing silence!

Your account is really screwed up. Let me analyze it and I will get everything staightened out! Sure looks like up grade to VIP Gold and consolidated deed are way to go!

Wyndham points will never be cheaper. In fact,  we got a new price sheet today showing 10% increase the first of the month! They have doubled over last 10 years!(Read rack rates)

This resort is one of three top destination locations in the world, so you cannot go wrong buying here! Everything is red!


Owners vote on all changes and Wyndham just does what they want and is best for them!


Wyndham is biggest and best, listed on NYSE,  most respected, can't go wrong doing business with us. We will be here tomorrow to serve(sell more  points) unlike  e-bay guys.


Points required for VIP status are going up next week, but if you buy right now can grandfather you!

CWA program has right of first refusal so Wyndham "inferred" will buy your deed at good price if you decide to sell!

Our "new" owner benefit programs will save you tons of dollars on everything from plane tickets to Disney to Amazon to you name it!

Joe at that table over there just got owner trade in and I can let you steal for next five minutes before it gets posted!


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 28, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Why do they magically unilaterally tell the same "truths" at multiple resorts ?




Very simple. At formal training they are all given  Fairfield 30 Rules of Conduct , revised 2006. The sales trainer  crosses his  fingers, winks and says these are no, nos.

Sad truth is they are guide lines to successfully cramming  Wyndham points down   people throats who think  they are getting a  free lunch.

Go to Mad@Wyndham post on May 30, 2012 for  direct link to. You will immedialey recognize they are lies you hear from Hawaii to Orlando.

www.myndhamlawsuit.com lays it all out  but is off the air. Rumor is Wyndham lawyers shut  it down!


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## Rent_Share (Jun 28, 2012)

It was a rhetorical question


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## rrlongwell (Jun 28, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> You have hit the nail on head if one decides to do battle with sales people ...



Now you did it, you passed the final exam with a A plus score.  You are now ready to be a Wyndham salesperson.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 28, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Now you did it, you passed the final exam with a A plus score.  You are now ready to be a Wyndham salesperson.



OK!  Where do I pick up my BS  Diploma with a Major in Timeshare Scamming? Wiil hang next to my MBA Accounting one!

Actually,  being an accounting type,  lack Ron's marketing   skills.

It is ironic GF who is sweet Southern Belle  and accompolished    conversationalist  would like to do do time shares sales. She  feels   a straight forward, honest  approach  would work wonders. Thinks I am a pessimist when I tell her after a week and no sales she would be out the back door on all four.

She cringes when sales person and I   engage in mortal combat and heads for the ladies room. Have to promise to be nice next time as being an olde fart will not tour me and she has to go as single female with me as a  guest!

Shoot, I tell her if my worst vice is  beating up lying sales people  I must be a good catch.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 28, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> OK!  Where do I pick up my BS  Diploma with a Major in Timeshare Scamming? Wiil hang next to my MBA Accounting one! ...



I think they might be planning a big deal for you in Orlando Flordia since you scored the highest on their pre-training exam.  Maybe the reason for Orlando is that the CEO of Wyndham Vacation Ownership will give it to you.  Or, in the alternative, give you something.  Maybe the right to buy another timeshare at full retail.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 28, 2012)

RR:

Decided to go for Doctorate from RR University. Have done requisite 25   Wyndham sales pitches and  only been thrown out of five! Following is  my  "thesis/dissertation/treastise":



Doing a time share sales pitch my way!


Make sure parking pass body snatcher or who ever, puts everything in writing and gives you a copy. Make sure you note on it 5 minute survey, 15 minute maximun update, etc. that way sales person is SOL. Also, make sure incentives are clearly spelled out. Welcome package is a worthless trinket like a drink cup, T-shit, baseball cap,  etc.

Best to meet in his office as you can get up and walk out at end of proscribed time.

If he comes to room with bulging brief case tell to leave in hall as not doing any sales pitch. Ignore his shit eating grin!

Be forwarned, he has pulled your dossier and knows a lot about you. As discussed here, Deanne Gabel(now retired) and Company has determinded it is perfectly legal for Wyndham sales to access confidential VOI records for sales purposes.


The whole game plan is to disorganize/disorient canned sales pitch on a rainy day or when pooped and broke! Following is a smorgasbord! Put sales person on defensive! Make justify his existence!

ME: Do you have a business card? Makes easy if I want to get hold of you or refer an enemy!

ME:: My memory is kinda short, so I am sure you will not mind if I use this recorder to keep track of what we discuss and insure everything gets incorporated in contract!

ME:: After whipping out note pad ask name and how to spell. I take lots of notes and also when owners relations sends survey want to make sure I have it right!

Sales person(SP) asks about kids. Don't have any, parents are demised and only brother was killed in car wreck!

SP:: Any pets. Yes, you allow! I will buy right now!

SP:: Do you like to cruise? No way, get sea sick!

SP:: What is your dream vacation. Retired and been everywhere, but would like to do trip to space shuttle!


SP: how much do you spend on vacations? ME: What does that have to do with any thing, you are just selling lodging?

ME: TV remote does not work, can you get fixed. If yes, reverse battery!

ME/GF: There are a couple piss ants running around in kitchen, can you get an exterminator?

ME: Why is it so hard to log onto web site? Always busy!


ME: What is wrong with WIFI?

ME:: What is being done about big pot hole in parking lot?

ME: Why aren't there more handicapped parking spaces?

ME ::Are you a licensed real estate broker? What are your credentials. How long have you been a time share sales person? How many sales have you done this month? Any recissions? Do you know what you are doing? Where does your information come from? Do you have any written documents supporting your perfumed horse manure(santized)??

ME:: When I buy a car I check out on Internet, test drive, check Magazine review articles, etc. for several hours and sure you do same. So, why would I buy anything from stranger I just met an hour ago? I have never bought a TV in corner of WalMart parking lot for cash!

ME:: I own TS and know ropes so just want to see unit. If I don't like, no way in Hell I am buying! Skip the 3 hours of perfumed horse manure(santized) and give me your best price!

On way to or from model  unit note one where door is open and say I really would like to see actual unit not phony model. I don't care if bed is not made, never do at home!

GF:: Kitchen sucks

ME:: No deck

ME/GF:: Bed/TV whatever  too small 


GF: No  good pots and pans in kitchen


SP:: So, what do you think? ME:: Have you read this article on wyndsham.com web site. What you are saying and what owners have experienced do not jibe!

ME:: Your pretty pictures have about convinced I should buy at nice resort shown, not here! Home resort has ARP doesn't it?

ME:: MF seem very low. I need to see resort financials! Any special assesments pending?

ME:: Let's see, I give you $4K down and have to pay $350 a month for ten years or $4K a year plus $800 MF to do just one week vacation and I can rent same thing on craigslist for less than $800. Do I have stupid written on my forehead?

ME:: Do you have a resale program since you stressed I can easily sell. Grab your lap top and lets check out prices on e-bay!!

ME:: Since purchase is less than 300K points and worthless VIP benefits do not apply what is difference in this and $1.00 e-bay resale?

ME:: This sounds like best thing since sliced bread. Draw up the papers and I will have my advisor who controls trust fund with all my money scope out and come back tomorrow with a certified bank check!

ME:: Why does Wyndham have "F" rating with BBB!

ME:: Are there any lawsuits pending against Wyndham for illegal sales tactics?

ME:: What is difference in deeded benefits and all these other benefits that can be exterminted at Wyndham's whim and discretion? Are benefits you are promising me today guaranteed in writing unto eternity? Need to show me written documentation!!

ME:: What is VOI? How is it run? What does it cost? Why do I have to give my points?

ME:: Are you sure RCI membership is free? Says here added to MF! I don't want so just leave out!

ME:: Why are you associated with RCI since they were successfully sued for stealing members deposits and charge outrageous fees compared to II??

ME:: Directory says if I can't use say 100K points that cost $600 MF that you will only give me $210 credit and if I want to rent 100K points it will cost me $1K. What a ripoff!

ME:: Here is great article by time share expert, Bill Spearman, about Wyndham you should read! Since Wyndham legal has not challenged or sued have to assume it is true!

ME:: What is this with your attitudal negativism? You keep saying no way or making excuses!

Check out survey taker comes over:: You are not here to do any survey , you are selling sampler/Discovery package. No way in Hell will I come back here even if free.  Why did sales person tell me  this deal was only good for today and you are saying you will  lock for a year. Who is lying?  Just get me to gifting before I lose my sanity and temper! 

As my olde grandpappy said, don't get mad get even!

You will find experienced salesman will turn you over to gifting in a hurray so he can find a gulliable victim and other "bodies" don't overhear!


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## rrlongwell (Jun 28, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> RR: Decided to go for Doctorate from RR University. Have done requisite 25 Wyndham sales pitches and  only been thrown out of five! ... Following is "thesis/dissertation/treastise"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## antjmar (Jun 29, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> You have hit the nail on head if one decides to do battle with sales people. After BS just say  have to hit rest room, grab  a coke and analyze. Their lies are so outrageous one just need to  clear their head to expose.
> 
> Ask and you will receive!
> 
> ...


Paco knows all the lines!  He must be one of them!:rofl:


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## dr_adventure (Jun 29, 2012)

I've done five owner updates in the last month.  The only one that was really creepy was Vegas (I think it is a shark tank there - but for $100 I can say NO very well.  Most of the others were interesting and some were actually a bit informative - Lake Tahoe and Sedona were the best - Very knowledgeable sales folks more interested in servicing members than the sale (though of course they want the sale).  Pagosa was a "room visit" as the OP described - did not like that much and the gifts were not worth it - however it was the only one that sales was not an option and they did not even bring out my contracts.  Steamboat was a newbie - I knew more than he did - the only reason I did that one was they said that there were new CO properties coming.  The sales person knew nothing about it.  Tahoe was the most informative - learned about the new Worldmarks opening up to Whyndham owners in NM.  Came away with a total of $250 in Amex cards - several flash drives and some other Wyndham goodies (the insulated lunch bag has been handy) - the Amex will cover some says in Hotels as I'm not going to be near any properties and/or they were sold out.


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 29, 2012)

antjmar said:


> Paco knows all the lines!  He must be one of them!:rofl:



Actually made so much money I had to retire as I could not afford paying taxes. 

However, if you tell them Paco  from TUG sent you, will get baseball cap with I (heart) Wyndham , T-shirt with bulls eye in right place,  insulated coffee mug with hole in bottom , electric ass scratcher  sans batteries and a  10% discount off rack rate!

Us olde accountants don't die we just lose our balance!


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 29, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> pacodemountainside said:
> 
> 
> > RR: Decided to go for Doctorate from RR University. Have done requisite 25 Wyndham sales pitches and  only been thrown out of five! ... Following is "thesis/dissertation/treastise"
> ...


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## rrlongwell (Jun 29, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> rrlongwell said:
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> > pacodemountainside said:
> ...


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## pacodemountainside (Jun 30, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> pacodemountainside said:
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> 
> > rrlongwell said:
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## rrlongwell (Jun 30, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> rrlongwell said:
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> > pacodemountainside said:
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## Cheryl20772 (Jun 30, 2012)

Ha ha...mystery shopper.  Last night I watched Mystery Diner http://www.foodnetwork.com/mystery-diners/index.html  And thought this needs to go wider.  It would be a hoot if they did a TV show about Mystery Shoppers at TS's.


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## timeos2 (Jun 30, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Ha ha...mystery shopper.  Last night I watched Mystery Diner http://www.foodnetwork.com/mystery-diners/index.html  And thought this needs to go wider.  It would be a hoot if they did a TV show about Mystery Shoppers at TS's.



Hoo baby! That would be one entertaining show. And virtually unlimited sources in any timeshare area.  But what Company would ask them to come in to see what goes on? Oh - of course. Wyndham or Wastegate! you KNOW they want to shut down misleading presentations and lies to potential buyers. Right?


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## pedro47 (Jun 30, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Hoo baby! That would be one entertaining show. And virtually unlimited sources in any timeshare area.  But what Company would ask them to come in to see what goes on? Oh - of course. Wyndham or Wastegate! you KNOW they want to shut down misleading presentations and lies to potential buyers. Right?



That would be a very enteraining show !!!!


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