# Confused about Smuggs Fees



## Faith (May 21, 2017)

We are looking into visiting Smuggler's Notch later this year.  If we trade in, what fees can we expect to incur?  Just two adults, not ski season.

Thanks.

Faith


----------



## tschwa2 (May 21, 2017)

summer or off season in Spring or Fall?
Would you be exchanging through RCI or renting from a Wyndham owner or from a Smuggs deeded week owner?  Or would you be booking directly through Wyndham with your own Wyndham points?


----------



## Faith (May 31, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> summer or off season in Spring or Fall?
> Would you be exchanging through RCI or renting from a Wyndham owner or from a Smuggs deeded week owner?  Or would you be booking directly through Wyndham with your own Wyndham points?



Fall - Book through RCI

Thanks!


----------



## tschwa2 (May 31, 2017)

Mandatory fee per stay based upon unit size: $20 studio or one bedroom.$30 two bedroom.$40 three bedroom.$50 four bedroom. Depending on which village you are staying within Smuggs  you may have an indoor pool included.  Other wise info on the fall smuggs pass below. 



> *Fall*
> 
> To fully enjoy your Smugglers' Notch vacation we recommend that you purchase our Fall _SmuggsPass_ from _September 5 - October 15, 2017._
> 
> ...


It looks like limited activities available October 16-December 7, so no smuggs pass is available.


----------



## WinniWoman (Jun 1, 2017)

I am not sure what these fees are for, but they *MIGHT* include the new RFID cards the resort is instituting this summer. The cards allow entrance to the pool areas (outside of your buildings' pool- IF it has one) and the Fun Zone and certain other activities, etc.

The resort just installed new gates for this. Owners have to pay $5 per card for each person. A one time fee for owners but if we lose a card we have to pay for another one. Supposedly can use these cards year after year and I guess they reload them when we check in again. What I predict is a lot of cards being lost- especially with the kids. There is no way to wear these cards I think other than keeping them in a pocket *IF *you have a pocket. And- don't keep them near a cell phone or drop them in water. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, we don't even use our so-called benefits- haven't for years- and we don't even want or need these cards. Maybe we can just refuse them upon check in- haven't been able to get an answer via email on that one. Will have to call. Things are changing rapidly a Smuggs. Our benefits expire in 2020 (owned since 1999) and we intend to try to giveaway our ownership by then anyway- *IF *we can.


----------



## Faith (Jun 1, 2017)

Thanks!


----------



## muzikman429 (Nov 18, 2017)

I am interested in this resort. I see good reviews about Smuggs so far with the exception of the resort fees and the RFID cards. My concern however, is not being able to use the various facilities throughout the resort without paying for a Smugg pass. If I were to obtain a deeded week for this property, how is it determined if I can use the various features without buying a pass. Also, looking online I see some properties are reserved specifically for different levels of Wyndham owners. With that in mind which option would be best for a family of 8-10 when it comes to resale. Is it better to have a deeded Wyndham week or a Smuggs week? I like this resort because it is 4 1/2 hrs drive from CT and it seems like it has the potential to trade pretty well in the exchange groups. Not sure if II is available but I know RCI is. It gives an option to vacation close to home or exchange for another area we may want to visit as family. Any info you think is good to know please include it in your responses or PM me. Thanks


----------



## silentg (Nov 18, 2017)

We have a week Exchange here in May2018. Are the fees mandatory? We are just going to visit the area, not big on water sports, may play golf. Let me know what we are in for at Smuggs?
Silentg


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 18, 2017)

silentg said:


> We have a week Exchange here in May2018. Are the fees mandatory? We are just going to visit the area, not big on water sports, may play golf. Let me know what we are in for at Smuggs?
> Silentg




No. You do not have to buy a smuggs pass or the RFID card. Plus, you are going off season, so nothing going on. What building are you in? That gives me a better idea of what you will have free access to.

FYI- Smuggs does not have golf. For that you have to go to Stowe.


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 18, 2017)

muzikman429 said:


> I am interested in this resort. I see good reviews about Smuggs so far with the exception of the resort fees and the RFID cards. My concern however, is not being able to use the various facilities throughout the resort without paying for a Smugg pass. If I were to obtain a deeded week for this property, how is it determined if I can use the various features without buying a pass. Also, looking online I see some properties are reserved specifically for different levels of Wyndham owners. With that in mind which option would be best for a family of 8-10 when it comes to resale. Is it better to have a deeded Wyndham week or a Smuggs week? I like this resort because it is 4 1/2 hrs drive from CT and it seems like it has the potential to trade pretty well in the exchange groups. Not sure if II is available but I know RCI is. It gives an option to vacation close to home or exchange for another area we may want to visit as family. Any info you think is good to know please include it in your responses or PM me. Thanks




Wow. Well- we have owned there since 1999. We live in the mid-Hudson Valley, NY area. We own week 30 fixed week with an attached floating week that varies each year. We love our ownership, but many people had converted to RCI points and now, of course, there are Wyndham owners.

When buying a regular weeks ownership you also have to purchase a benefits package to take advantage of all the resort has to offer and it is well worth it, though now that we are older we are not renewing our benefit package, which had a 20 year lifespan. We are in the West Hill community and we have a pool and clubhouse- no grandchildren so that is fine for us.

But the benefit package enables you to enjoy all the other pools (with water slides and so forth), guided hikes, skiing if you are a winter owner, etc. If you do not at least buy a week's pass, you cannot access the pools. If you own in a community with it's own pool, you can use that one. But there are many buildings in the village without pools, so if you buy there, you are out of luck unless you buy a pass or benefit package.

This is a RCI/ Wyndham resort, not a II. A benefit of being a Wyndham owner is you get to use the amenities without buying a pass.

If you are buying with intention to use most of the time, a resale deeded prime week is fine. As for the unit you buy-well for a big family I would definitely buy/acquire a 3 bedroom. The Owls are the Wyndham Presidentials. They also have a family share building called The Eagles. And they do own some units in North Hill and West Hill. But most are not Wyndham.

I like a fixed week and unit because we just show up- no worrying about booking our week and unit a year ahead of time. I love having the same unit every year as it feels like a second home and we know what to expect.


What are the ages of your children? if they are young the benefits package or pass is well worth it. If they are late teens or older- a different story. Keep in mind there are many fee based activities as well.


----------



## muzikman429 (Nov 18, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Wow. Well- we have owned there since 1999. We live in the mid-Hudson Valley, NY area. We own week 30 fixed week with an attached floating week that varies each year. We love our ownership, but many people had converted to RCI points and now, of course, there are Wyndham owners.
> 
> When buying a regular weeks ownership you also have to purchase a benefits package to take advantage of all the resort has to offer and it is well worth it, though now that we are older we are not renewing our benefit package, which had a 20 year lifespan. We are in the West Hill community and we have a pool and clubhouse- no grandchildren so that is fine for us.
> 
> ...


That is great information to know. Thank you so much. I will start with my children’s ages 15, 12, 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. So, needless to say the benefits package will come in huge with the younger children, unless of course we get Wyndham based week. Would love the village with the best pools for the kids since they all love the water. So, the water slides would be great plus. Even for me. I am think more of the summer time. I do love the idea of a fixed week and unit but would absolutely a floating week 1-52. Just for the option to trade a lot easier if we want to vacation in another part of the country and I believe this has the potential for it. On top of the fact that it is closer to home. Reading your response gives me the sense that you are and were pleased with this timeshare. So, I am thinking a Wyndham resale would be perfect just for the amenities in itself and also a 3 or 4 bedroom. Which villages have the pools and best activities for my younger kids and what would you suggest as far as activities for the older 2 kids. Do you know of any place where I can find Smugg resales other than on TUGs or Ebay and redweek. Some hidden place. I am eager to try and get this going so we can use in 2019 to make way for the transfer and closing process but also in case we are not able to make the necessary monetary commitment for 2018. Also, how would you say the MF’s fees have been for you all since owning this property for all these years.


----------



## silentg (Nov 18, 2017)

I have no idea what building we will be in. We did an RCI exchange. How far is Stowe from Smuggs?


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

silentg said:


> I have no idea what building we will be in. We did an RCI exchange. How far is Stowe from Smuggs?



Stowe is only 20 minutes away IF the Notch is open when you are there. Otherwise you have to drive around it and it will take about 40 minutes. There might be a golf course in Morrisville, which is a little bit closer but not by much.

In any event, you would want to visit Stowe for an excursion anyway. Good restaurants, shops, Trapp Family Lodge (you can do a tour), etc.

If you are driving up from Florida- depending on how you go, you might actually drive through Stowe to get to Smuggs. Be aware that is you are following a GPS it might not alert you as to whether or not the notch is closed, so call the resort on the way to ask. If it is open, be prepared for a slow, very windy drive around big boulders- an experience in and of itself. Slow going, but beautiful. This is Smugglers Notch State Park- there will be rock climbers and hikers, etc.

If you are flying into Burlington, then you would get to Smuggs from the western end of the state near Lake Champlain, so it would be a different route.

If you are staying in any of the following buildings/communities, you will have access to a pool and clubhouse/gym included in your stay:

West Hill (Sycamores/Falcons)-(outdoor year round)
Highlands/Aspens-(outdoor year round)
North Hill (Tamaracks) (indoor/outdoor)
Mountain Laurels (pool only-outdoor year round)

You will not be able to use the "public" indoor pool (covered by a prefab "bubble") and hot tubs at Courtside without a pass.


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

muzikman429 said:


> That is great information to know. Thank you so much. I will start with my children’s ages 15, 12, 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. So, needless to say the benefits package will come in huge with the younger children, unless of course we get Wyndham based week. Would love the village with the best pools for the kids since they all love the water. So, the water slides would be great plus. Even for me. I am think more of the summer time. I do love the idea of a fixed week and unit but would absolutely a floating week 1-52. Just for the option to trade a lot easier if we want to vacation in another part of the country and I believe this has the potential for it. On top of the fact that it is closer to home. Reading your response gives me the sense that you are and were pleased with this timeshare. So, I am thinking a Wyndham resale would be perfect just for the amenities in itself and also a 3 or 4 bedroom. Which villages have the pools and best activities for my younger kids and what would you suggest as far as activities for the older 2 kids. Do you know of any place where I can find Smugg resales other than on TUGs or Ebay and redweek. Some hidden place. I am eager to try and get this going so we can use in 2019 to make way for the transfer and closing process but also in case we are not able to make the necessary monetary commitment for 2018. Also, how would you say the MF’s fees have been for you all since owning this property for all these years.




You might not be understanding that you can exchange fixed weeks. A lot of people new to time sharing don't get that. They think you need to be in a points system and that is simply not true at all. In fact, if you have a prime summertime fixed week in a nice large unit like a 3 bedroom, you will have decent trading power, especially if you own a so-called "deluxe" unit in Sycamores or Tamaracks, which are the newer ones, RCI assigns the weeks/units TPU "points" (Trading Power Units) for when you trade, so the higher the TPUs the better the trading power. As for floaters, the resort assigns the floaters to you going out 20 years- each year it will be a different week, so if you do not want to use the week they give you each year, you can also exchange those. They will have lower TPU's because of the time of year they occur in.

There are all kinds of ownerships- 2 weeks every year (fixed and floater); 1 week every year- a fixed week for one year with a floater the next year. I think there might be a rare few every year 1 week ownerships in Tamaracks. Some buildings like Nordland have fixed 1 week ownerships, and floaters are available each year -IF you want to use another week, but not required. Every other year ownerships, Bi annuals (every two years), family quarter shares and full shares and winter shares. It can get confusing. Standard TPU fixed weeks with floaters, RCI points weeks (which need to be reserved in advance), now Wyndham thrown into the mix. Crazy.


Do know that there are no guarantees with trading and you have to be a long range planner. It is both an art and a science. One good thing is Smuggs has an owners network where owners can rent and trade with each other, so if you find you can't use your week one year- you might be able to swap with another owner to go a different week. And smuggs is now opening that up for floating weeks as well. And- if you want to go an additional week, you can rent from another owner, too. Or you can rent YOUR week to someone else. So it's all good. And we have an active owners' Facebook page (2 actually). If you do become an owner, you can post on there.

We no longer belong to RCI because we rarely exchange anymore and use the free independent exchange companies with lower exchange fees, but smaller inventory. But you would want to belong to RCI at this stage of your life to have access to more properties to exchange into.

As for the village, if you buy in the village, most of those are older units and do not have their own pools/clubhouse/gyms, so the benefit package would be a must for the you to be able to use all the "public" pools like Courtside, Notchville Park, Rum Runners Hideaway, Bootleggers, Mountainside.

If you buy in North Hill (Tamaracks, West Hill (Sycamores), Aspens, Mountain Laurels (pool only)) you will have use of their community pool and clubhouse gym included. But without the package you could not use the other pools and the kids will probably want to as those pools have slides and so forth. Plus, you would not be able to use the Fun Zone- a biggie with a lot of kids, the guided hikes and other things/activities, including the camps. So again, the benefit package will be important in your case.

I will say that our son only went to the camps for two summers. He wanted to do his own thing- or be with us. I attribute that to the fact that he always was in a structured setting at home- after school programs, summer camp, day care, etc. because I worked. He is an only child and I thought he would love the camps, but he preferred to be spontaneous on vacation. In fact, after a while he got tot he age where he did not even want to go to the water slide pools anymore. Or even the Fun Zone. Yet- there are a lot of adults who still do! LOL!

When our son was young and in school, we always traded the off season floater weeks and went all over the country with them. We actually were able to trade to go during Easter week and in the summer to other places- like Hawaii, Arizona, Florida, Virginia, Maine, New Hampshire, etc. Now that we are older, we enjoy using the floaters at Smuggs as well most of the time (they are in spring and fall). But- we did just trade a late October week through Trading Places (a small independent trading company) to go to Cape Cod next Sept.

FYI- you will not find many- if at all- Wyndham resales at Smuggs because Wyndham is fairly new to the game there. They are acquiring some more inventory from some owners who want out (called the "Farewell Program") however.

They do have activities for older teens and camps for them as well. They can do the guided hikes also. Depends what they are into. There is mountain biking. Kayaking nearby. And there are fee based activities. Otherwise, exploring the area is an option. Stowe has a modern bowling ally and there are movie theaters and live theaters around. Mini golf.

There is never enough time (and money) to do everything you want to do at Smuggs. That is what keeps people coming back. Although it has grown, it still has that warm and fuzzy feeling. Listen to Goodtime Charlie at the Bonfire singalong or Sam in the lounge. People doing Karaoke, playing family bingo, the games on the village green during the Vermont Country Fair. Charlie is right when he sings "It's like coming back home again." Corny, I know. But you gotta love it.

In summer for adults- there is Marko the Magician (does a child show also)/Hypnotist; the comedy club; Bootleggers Lounge with music and so on.

You might want to try this site- it is owned by the woman who sold us our unit . She used to work at Smuggs. Laura. She won't have Wyndham- she will have mostly weeks and RCI points units. She is very knowledgeable and helpful and I have no reservations recommending her:

http://vermonttimesharebrokerage.com/

As for maintenance fees- they, of course, have gone up yearly. I think we started out a bit over $400 per week (2 bedroom) and it is now - 18 years later-$957 or something near that. A three bedroom is more. In the village, the ones without their own pools, the fees might be less.

Make note that each building has it's own HOA and own expenses and therefore it's own maintenance fees in their budgets- so they are all different.

Yes- our timeshare at Smuggs was the best thing we ever did. We love the state of Vermont and the resort in general. We have enjoyed it immensely. Our son is 29 now and he still loves visiting there with us when we go (he lives in New Hampshire now). When he was little we actually visited Smuggs on two separate occasions before we finally bought. It was the right decision for us.


----------



## muzikman429 (Nov 19, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> You might not be understanding that you can exchange fixed weeks. A lot of people new to time sharing don't get that. They think you need to be in a points system and that is simply not true at all. In fact, if you have a prime summertime fixed week in a nice large unit like a 3 bedroom, you will have decent trading power, especially if you own a so-called "deluxe" unit in Sycamores or Tamaracks, which are the newer ones, RCI assigns the weeks/units TPU "points" (Trading Power Units) for when you trade, so the higher the TPUs the better the trading power. As for floaters, the resort assigns the floaters to you going out 20 years- each year it will be a different week, so if you do not want to use the week they give you each year, you can also exchange those. They will have lower TPU's because of the time of year they occur in.
> 
> There are all kinds of ownerships- 2 weeks every year (fixed and floater); 1 week every year- a fixed week for one year with a floater the next year. I think there might be a rare few every year 1 week ownerships in Tamaracks. Some buildings like Nordland have fixed 1 week ownerships, and floaters are available each year -IF you want to use another week, but not required. Every other year ownerships, Bi annuals (every two years), family quarter shares and full shares and winter shares. It can get confusing. Standard fixed weeks with floaters, RCI points weeks (which need to be reserved in advance), now Wyndham thrown into the mix. Crazy.
> 
> ...




You have been a tremendous help!! I seriously mean it. You have made my decision to acquire a property even more. I will definitely look into Laura’s website as well. I am extremely excited and can not wait to own. Heading your personal story and experience has given me more confidence in knowing this is a property my family and I will love and benefit from immensely. 

I will admit I am still understanding the TPU game. It is tricky to me because you want to get you need for your family and not be cramped or staying at a place that does not have nice amenities. I would prefer the North or West Hills as our property. My main reason for the MFs question was to gauge how much I would be paying yearly over the next 15-20yrs as our youngest is only 2. But in either sense it really doesn’t matter because in my opinion it seems totally worth it. 

I asked about the Wyndham properties only because of the amount of availability for other properties to trade into but that does not matter because there are other exchange companies I can use. So reading your response let’s me know I DONT need the Wyndham properties at Smuggs. 

Thank you so much. I will keep you updated.


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

muzikman429 said:


> You have been a tremendous help!! I seriously mean it. You have made my decision to acquire a property even more. I will definitely look into Laura’s website as well. I am extremely excited and can not wait to own. Heading your personal story and experience has given me more confidence in knowing this is a property my family and I will love and benefit from immensely.
> 
> I will admit I am still understanding the TPU game. It is tricky to me because you want to get you need for your family and not be cramped or staying at a place that does not have nice amenities. I would prefer the North or West Hills as our property. My main reason for the MFs question was to gauge how much I would be paying yearly over the next 15-20yrs as our youngest is only 2. But in either sense it really doesn’t matter because in my opinion it seems totally worth it.
> 
> ...




FYI- I believe you can still trade into Wyndham properties through RCI- just so you know. Wyndham owns RCI. I would say you do not need to own Wyndham at Smuggs for sure and as long as you belong to RCI you should be ok with trading.

This all said, most Wyndham owners like their ownerships. If you bought Wyndham points resale you could trade into Smuggs sometimes and go elsewhere other times. So it is an option for sure. But certainly not necessary.

You will also find most plain ol' smuggs owners are passionate about their ownerships, too. I look at our ownership as a second home with an added benefit of being able to exchange to go elsewhere if we want to. Most Wyndham owners look at it mostly as a vehicle for trading with going to Smuggs being secondary, though there are exceptions. It is all a matter of perspective and how you want to use your ownership. I personally like simplicity in our ownership.

We also own a fixed week 31 in New Hampshire at Innseason Pollard Brook. When we leave Smuggs week 30 we drive over there and spend another week at that resort! We actually got it for free- not even a dollar!- on Timeshare Nation. Another wonderful ownership we are enjoying. And it is only 30 minutes from where our son lives!

Good luck! You can PM me if you have any questions.


----------



## MelissaI (Nov 19, 2017)

I purchased a Resale with Laura.  She is very helpful and knowledgeable.  I purchased a unit in the village.  It is a two bedroom and sleeps 9.  We absolutely love the location.  It is so close to everything.  We have a week 29 fixed, with an optional floater.  This means we get our week 29 every year, and we can use a second float week if we want.  We only pay for the float if we want to use it.  Our unit in the village is an older unit but it has been completely renovated, with granite countertops, etc.  Because it's older, there are some eccentricities, like two stoves, front and rear balcony, among other things.  Our building is a mix of full owners and timeshare owners.

Our kids are 9 and 11.  Last year they did the sleepover camp, hikes, day camps, and swimming.  We really enjoyed the Country Fair as a family, and we went off property and went zip-lining at Arbor Trek.  We played mini golf, one son did the mining activity, and we visited the fun zone multiple times.  We didn't even touch the tip of the iceberg with all of the activities.  

We did purchase a benefits package.


----------



## shorts (Nov 19, 2017)

Before you completely rule out purchasing resale Wyndham points, you may want to research further the cost of the benefit package at Smuggs. Even though it would be a one time cost good for 20 years I believe, Wyndham points owners do not have that cost. Additionally, you would have an annual membership fee to join RCI which would be covered in your Wyndham program fees. And then there is the added benefit of being able to go to all of the other Wyndham resorts (with most having 3 and 4 bedroom units available) without paying exchange fees as you would with RCI. And 3-4 bedroom units are not very plentiful in RCI.

These are just some things to think about and research before making a decision. With the ages of your children you have a lot of vacationing years ahead of you! Good luck with your decision.


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

shorts said:


> Before you completely rule out purchasing resale Wyndham points, you may want to research further the cost of the benefit package at Smuggs. Even though it would be a one time cost good for 20 years I believe, Wyndham points owners do not have that cost. Additionally, you would have an annual membership fee to join RCI which would be covered in your Wyndham program fees. And then there is the added benefit of being able to go to all of the other Wyndham resorts (with most having 3 and 4 bedroom units available) without paying exchange fees as you would with RCI. And 3-4 bedroom units are not very plentiful in RCI.
> 
> These are just some things to think about and research before making a decision. With the ages of your children you have a lot of vacationing years ahead of you! Good luck with your decision.




Yes. Very good points indeed. I also think- and correct me if I am wrong- that Wyndham owners can still exchange through RCI to go to resorts outside the Wyndham blanket.

Another thing to keep in mind- is that - as far as I understand it-Wyndham owners still have to pay for camps (and ski tickets)- they are not included in their benefits.


----------



## silentg (Nov 19, 2017)

We used to have a timeshare in Warren, Vermont, 
 Seasons at Sugarbush, first timeshare we had. 
Familiar with some parts of Vermont, but never stayed at Smuggs. Mostly Sugarbush Valley, we had Week 27 which fell around the 4 th of July. Kids loved it, Parades, Fireworks, so much fun. Was RTU and we didn’t renew.
We are going in May, just DH and me. Thank you for all the info, have not been to Vermont in 10 years.
Silentg


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

silentg said:


> We used to have a timeshare in Warren, Vermont,
> Seasons at Sugarbush, first timeshare we had.
> Familiar with some parts of Vermont, but never stayed at Smuggs. Mostly Sugarbush Valley, we had Week 27 which fell around the 4 th of July. Kids loved it, Parades, Fireworks, so much fun. Was RTU and we didn’t renew.
> We are going in May, just DH and me. Thank you for all the info, have not been to Vermont in 10 years.
> Silentg




If you bring your passports you could take a ride to Montreal- 2 hours from Smuggs. There is also a lovely monastery in Quebec Province right over the border where you can tour through it and also attend a service if you time it right to hear the monks sing the Gregorian Chant. They also make cheese and chocolate there. 

But lots of things to see and do in Northern Vermont itself.


----------



## WinniWoman (Nov 19, 2017)

silentg said:


> We used to have a timeshare in Warren, Vermont,
> Seasons at Sugarbush, first timeshare we had.
> Familiar with some parts of Vermont, but never stayed at Smuggs. Mostly Sugarbush Valley, we had Week 27 which fell around the 4 th of July. Kids loved it, Parades, Fireworks, so much fun. Was RTU and we didn’t renew.
> We are going in May, just DH and me. Thank you for all the info, have not been to Vermont in 10 years.
> Silentg




If you bring your passports you could take a ride to Montreal- 2 hours from Smuggs. There is also a lovely monastery in Quebec Province right over the border where you can tour through it and also attend a service if you time it right to hear the monks sing the Gregorian Chant. They also make cheese and chocolate there. 

But lots of things to see and do in Northern Vermont itself.


----------

