# POINTS VS TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE



## irandy1948 (Feb 15, 2017)

THIS IS A VERY OPEN ENDED QUESTION, WHICH IS GENERALLY A BETTER VALUE,  POINTS OR A TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE.


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## theo (Feb 15, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THIS IS A VERY OPEN ENDED QUESTION, WHICH IS GENERALLY A BETTER VALUE,  POINTS OR A TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE.



There is really no correct "generallly a better value" answer, IMnsHO. The real answer is that what is "better" is whatever works better *for* *you*. Personal preferences, family situations, space requirements, geographic preferences, available vacation "windows", etc. are all different variables and factors for different people. Maintenance fees also vary quite widely and cannot just be ignored as part of *any* "better value" assessment.

There are also many different "flavors" of points (e.g., RCI, Hyatt, HGVC, Wyndham, BlueGreen, etc.) None correlate in any way to any other in terms of their "currencies" --- and reservation procedures differ as well within different "systems". People often discuss mf($) to points "ratios", but any such discussions are only useful or meaningful *within* any given system, otherwise it's just comparing apples to oranges to pears.

Some people like points for geographic flexibility, as well as for the option (in some systems) to reserve and use partial weeks instead of only full weeks. Otoh, some people like "fixed" weeks for their predictable, inherent date certainty and guaranteed unit availability without any need to ever play the "reservation roulette" game. Numerous factors and personal preferences necessarily enter into any "better value" conversation.

In short, no simple answer exists. It's a matter of whatever works best for you and where you place *your* personal "better value" priorities.


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## Jan M. (Feb 15, 2017)

What are you wanting to do with your vacation time? If your goal is to go to a specific resort during a specific week then a fixed week at that resort for that week is most certainly the way to go. If your vacation time is more flexible or you like going different places then points will be better for you.

By traditional timeshare I believe you mean a fixed week. There are some Wyndham owners on TUG with old fixed weeks at certain resorts which are great but I got the impression from reading the posts that it isn't easy to find those weeks anymore. Wyndham is primarily points.

It is so expensive to convert fixed weeks to points at resorts in the RCI program that many people find it cheaper to give away their fixed week and just buy a points week. Points are so much easier to use than fixed weeks when you are depositing your fixed week and trying to trade. Plus I saw in recent posts that fixed weeks got some people less TPU's (trading power units) than in the past.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 15, 2017)

What Theo said. I prefer weeks because I always vacation full weeks (for us it isn't really worth taking a long ride just for a long weekend- and definitely not to pay airfare) and we also use our fixed (and floater) weeks at our home resort, which is within a 6 hour drive for us. (no airfare).

We just have to show up. We don't have to reserve our own week and our own unit.

This said, we have exchanged our floater weeks to go all over the country and never had any issues doing so because we were flexible. I like the simplicity of doing the trade - a week for a week. I can downgrade from a 2 bedroom to a one bedroom easily. I can also upgrade to a 3 bedroom sometimes depending on what I am trading.Same for the season.

To me, points are a hassle- keeping track of them and their expiration dates. Having to pay to combine points to get something in some cases.

Most points people have points to mostly exchange as compared to using their home resort,  so they are already tied into using the system the points are affiliated with- like RCI or Wyndham or II. With weeks, you can belong to several exchange companies and trade if you want or not.

In my case, I rarely exchange so I save a lot of money on membership fees and exchange fees. I only belong to exchange companies with free memberships that have lower exchange fees than the big guys, though they have a lot less inventory as well. BUT- I do not have to deposit my week first in order to search and exchange, which is a big plus, because if I don't find anything I can just use it at my home resort or try to rent it out or only then decide bank it for something in the future.


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## irandy1948 (Feb 16, 2017)

VERY GOOD INFO FOLKS, AND I APPRECIATE IT. I GET TWO WEEKS VACATION FROM WORK. SO WE TEND TO LOOK AT BEING FLEXIBLE 
AND TAKING LONG WEEK ENDS. I MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITH POINTS TO ACCOMMODATE OUR THREE DAY OR FOUR DAY VACATION PLANS.


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## theo (Feb 16, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> VERY GOOD INFO FOLKS, AND I APPRECIATE IT. I GET TWO WEEKS VACATION FROM WORK. SO WE TEND TO LOOK AT BEING FLEXIBLE
> AND TAKING LONG WEEK ENDS. I MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITH *POINTS TO ACCOMMODATE OUR THREE DAY OR FOUR DAY VACATION PLAN*S.



As mentioned already, there are many different "points" systems and no two are particularly alike, nor do their points "currencies" correlate. Make very sure that any points system that you might end up zeroing in on actually provides for partial week / daily usage of allocated points.
Also, be prepared that daily points charges will generally *not* just be 1/7th of a full weeks' worth of points, but considerably *more* than 1/7th. On Planet Timeshare, the devil is always in the details, so I suggest that you keep your magnifying glass handy as you pursue your quest.


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## irandy1948 (Feb 16, 2017)

theo said:


> As mentioned already, there are many different "points" systems and no two are particularly alike, nor do their points "currencies" correlate. Make very sure that any points system that you might end up zeroing in on actually provides for partial week / daily usage of allocated points.
> Also, be prepared that daily points charges will generally *not* just be 1/7th of a full weeks' worth of points, but considerably *more* than 1/7th. On Planet Timeshare, the devil is always in the details, so keep your magnifying glass handy as you pursue your quest.



THEO,  YOU HAVE CREATED NEW QUESTIONS FOR ME, IS THE MAYBE A POST ON THE BOARD THAT LIST THE QUESTIONS THAT I SHOULD BE ASKING AS I TRAVEL THE INS AND OUTS OF POINTS?


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## theo (Feb 16, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THEO,  YOU HAVE CREATED NEW QUESTIONS FOR ME, IS THERE MAYBE A POST ON THE BOARD THAT LISTS THE QUESTIONS THAT I SHOULD BE ASKING AS I TRAVEL THE INS AND OUTS OF POINTS?



Not to my knowledge.
I am sorry to mire you in details; my input merely seeks to help you move forward slowly, well informed and with both eyes wide open.
Unfortunately, on Planet Timeshare the devil *is* always in the details, so the details always matter.

One question to perhaps first ask and answer for yourself is "what is the geographic range in which I might be interested taking those occasional long weekends?" Next, see if a "system" of interest to you actually has multiple properties within that particular geographic area. Just to use an example, many people like Wyndham. However, there is not a single Wyndham timeshare property *anywhere* in coastal SW FL (although a new Wyndham property is now currently (finally?) being built in Clearwater). This is not a "knock", just a real and specific example.

If you post a request in the Wyndham-specific forum, I'm betting that someone there could / would at least "point" you toward a Wyndham points chart (maybe even the whole directory), which would help you to see the specific Wyndham points requirements for different places / unit sizes, nightly points vs. weekly points requirements, etc. Wyndham might actually be a good system to look at if they have properties in your geographic area(s) of potential interest. Hyatt, Marriott, DVC, HGVC, Hyatt are all nice systems with points --- but much more expensive. Wyndham properties are not "5 star", but their many properties are certainly all decent and don't require crazy "buy in" money. Good luck.

_*Edited to add*_:
Just noticed a direct link to a complete Club Wyndham Plus Member Directory over in the Wyndham Vacation Resorts forum. See post #26 in the thread entitled "Wyndham Presentation". Click on the link contained in post #26 and you'll see more than you will probably even care to digest. If I was more computer savvy, I would cut and paste that link and post it right here for you, but dunno how to do so.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 16, 2017)

RCI Points might also work for you. They allow assorted short week stays, work at many resorts ... which are not in a single chain/system. But you need to learn the DETAILS ... the devil in always in the details.

I own in a large chain whose resorts have some converted to RCI Points units .. VRI (Vacation Resorts International). Each individual owner decides to either USE their owned week or same a different week at the resort (if they find a week available) or exchange thru their 'the chain' resorts owners have not booked.

So options, start off at 13 months before checkin of your owned unit ... you do NOT book it... the points stay in your RCI Points account. At 12 months before YOU WISH to travel to your HOME RESORT .. you look at BOOK an available week ... pay a small exchange fee to RCI. At 11 months, you get 1 month open booking window at ANY of your chain resorts .. if units are available ... full exchange fee. At 10 months and up to check in day, you can book using your points as currency plus the cash exchange fee ... any RCI points week/time you have enough points to use to book PLUS the exchange fee.

Within a month or so before checkin, you might find a cheaper points cost for unused stays. Picked over units... definintely, but beauty is in the eye of the user. That fee to RCI does not get cheaper.

But RCI points does allow LESS than a full 7 night stay.


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## taterhed (Feb 16, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THEO,  YOU HAVE CREATED NEW QUESTIONS FOR ME, IS THE MAYBE A POST ON THE BOARD THAT LIST THE QUESTIONS THAT I SHOULD BE ASKING AS I TRAVEL THE INS AND OUTS OF POINTS?



Hi Randy.  No offense (really) but typing in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is considered 'shouting' and is a sure sign you're not a regular on the boards.  Punctuation and capitalization are not the 'highlights' of TUG, but they are appreciated.....

I'll try and reply to your general questions later.... but consider filling your own 'what to buy for newbies' questions and solicit some answers that way as well!  WELCOME! 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/


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## JohnPaul (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm personally someone who really likes points but I agree that it is all about what works for you.  

Be aware that not all point systems are the same.  We own in Vacation Internationale and Worldmark which are true point systems.  100% of their inventory is available to the owners with points as there are no fixed week owners.  Other systems like Marriott and Wyndham have much of their inventory tied up by fixed or floating week owners and it isn't available to you with points.

And points are like foreign currencies - they are all worth something different.  My 451 VI points are worth much more than my 19000 Worldmark points. 

Why do I like points?  If I want to splurge I can use lots of points on a penthouse.  If I just want somewhere to lay my head perhaps a studio will do for very few points.  I can start my stay any day of the week and stay as long or as short as I want as long as their is availability and I have points.  (Do note that it costs the timeshare more if they have to clean 7 times for 7 one night stays vs one clean for a 7 night stay.  Every system has ways they deal with this so it's important to understand.  Typically comes under the subject of housekeeping fees.)

Also, point give you a better deal on low seasons because you typically pay MF based on how many points you have.  Low seasons use less points so you are effectively paying less.    In many weeks systems a 2 bedroom unit pays the same MF regardless of season.

Further, I can stay at lots of places with no exchange fee (which typically run $150 or more).  VI has 45 resorts.  I think Worldmark is around 100 now.  Shell Vacation Club is something like 50.

We also own RCI Points.  Be aware that RCI points are something you get with an underlying ownership.  We bought in a couple places that give us a lot of RCI points for low MF.  However, to use the points requires both paying for an RCI membership and paying exchange fees.

As mentioned, using points requires some planning.  Prime locations and times will book up early.  If you are happy going to the same place every year and not having to worry about booking in a timely fashion then a fixed week could be great.

Good luck with your travels.


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## JohnPaul (Feb 17, 2017)

One other plus about points that can't be done with fixed weeks as far as I know is to save and borrow.    For example. if I get 10,000 points a year I can typically save a year and borrow a year to use 30,000 on a splurge in a fancy unit, for a longer stay, or for a couple units if I am hosting others.


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## bogey21 (Feb 17, 2017)

Color me a Fixed Week, Fixed Unit guy.  As I see it the benefit is knowing when and where one will be going year after year.  In addition I also like the familiarity of using the Unit I bought.  Having owned exclusively at HOA Controlled Independents I found it easy in most cases to swap weeks internally just by calling the Resort's Manager.

George


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## stanleyu (Feb 18, 2017)

I've had it three different ways - points and fixed week for trading, and a floating week for use without trading. Currently we have a week at a Maui resort where you reserve either on-line or call in for a week on a first come, first serve basis, plus points in DVC, plus floating points at a Utah resort. So here are my $.02 worth:
- for DVC - Disney Vacation Club - it's the easiest. DVC points are pretty much your only choice, so is you want to stay on the grounds at the World, points are your only option. No problem for us.
- RCI Points at the Utah resort: we've never stayed there, never been there. Only use it for trading. Since it "floats", we get a different week - with different trading value - each year. For us that was a real pain - when we had red weeks it was terrific, and we had some great trades. But the blue or white were hard to trade for something good for us. Switching to points was a terrific option for us. If we have a blue or white week we bank it for next year - or borrow from next year - so that we get a decent trade. So we end up not using them every year, but we always get great vacations!
- Our Maui week is a new breed for us. We have a fixed unit at a fixed time of every other year, but can essentially book any week of that year. And since we like to go in late April or May, we usually have our choice of  the units. Again, perfect for us.

The point here is that you really have to look at what you want to do and how flexible you are. Since I retired we have a great deal of flexibility. It is not unusual for us to book six months to a year ahead of time. But if we wanted to go to the same place at the same time every year we'd get a fixed week there. As others have said, no real "right" or "wrong" choice - just what works best for you.


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## Bourgeoisx (Feb 24, 2017)

So I only been a owner for about 2 years and bought into a point systems. I did lots of research and found that EVERY timeshare is different and every point system is different so I hard to answer which is better since. PERSONALY, I like our point systems and would not trade it for a fix or flex week system. Let me explain my system and you decided how it sounds.

I belong to the Ridge Tahoe resort in NV and its a privet owned resort. I bought 3500 points a year and my maintenances fees are about $500yr. Now this is a ski resort that 10 min from lake Tahoe and bout 1 hour from my house. Since I am owner I can spend the day there for free and ski and take advantage of the club house (hot tubes, warm pools, tennis and other great things). Its great since I am local. Now I use my point to say at other places via Interval Internationals exchange. There web site say it has about 3,000 resorts to choose from world wide.  This give me the options to us my point for short trips (1-5 day), Week long trips, Cruises and the option to buy weeks for cheap (about $300-500). I pay no exchanges fees. Now, a week will run me 800-5,000 points depending on the place and time of year. I try to stay at places during the slow seasons. A 5000 point resort will run about 2000 during the slow season. Last year I went to Ireland for a week and took 4 short trips around the US.  Unfortunately my points do not roll over each year so it is a "use it or lose it" deal. But I can borrow points from the next year if need be.

It is my understanding that with the week systems you can only trade equal to or down. If I own a 1 bed room I can only trade for a 1 bed room or studio(there are exception I am sure). With the point system, I can spend less point for a studio or spend more for a high end room. I love the flexibility!


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## Trudyt623 (Feb 25, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THIS IS A VERY OPEN ENDED QUESTION, WHICH IS GENERALLY A BETTER VALUE,  POINTS OR A TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE.



Hi Randy,

First you need to identify which timeshare company you prefer (Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham....) then your answers will become clearer.  Each system is different.  I own a Marriott week (which can't be enrolled in points) and I love it but I am about to purchase Marriott points because I also want the flexibility to perform in house exchanges and not have to rely on Interval.  Depending on how you travel you may be like me and want both.


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## fiat1bmw (Feb 25, 2017)

We have a fixed week and haven't tried points.  Stratgically, with a points system, IMO using points allow the management to oversell.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 25, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> One other plus about points that can't be done with fixed weeks as far as I know is to save and borrow.    For example. if I get 10,000 points a year I can typically save a year and borrow a year to use 30,000 on a splurge in a fancy unit, for a longer stay, or for a couple units if I am hosting others.


Actually you can if you have one of the relatively few fixed weeks in the Marriott system that is enrolled or eligible to be enrolled in the new point system.  Once enrolled, you can choose to convert to points in any given year from a fixed week the same as from a floating week, and those points can be banked or borrowed to do exactly what you are suggesting.  Legacy weeks owners in the Marriott system (I happy to be one) truly have the best of both worlds if they enroill their eligible weeks because they can play in points or weeks as they choose, and the election may be made or not made every year.


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## rosco1e (Feb 25, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THIS IS A VERY OPEN ENDED QUESTION, WHICH IS GENERALLY A BETTER VALUE,  POINTS OR A TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE.


You really need to consider what you own and how you'll use it. For instance. I own a bunch of timeshares...points, fixed week, etc. One of them is the fourth of July week in northern Michigan by Traverse City. I can float this if I want but only if I give up my fixed week. No one wants to go there in the spring and fall. Most want either ski season or summer for golf. The load on the summer weeks is huge. If this was a full points membership it would very very difficult to pull a summer week out of the whole total because basically you have 12 months of owners vying for only 3 months of units (June-Aug).  Now, if you own in a less than desirable month then points may actually help you. For me, after years of dealing with TS's, it comes down to this. If you have a high demand property in high demand time, try to get it as a fixed week. That way you can always use it, or it will trade for high value going somewhere else.


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## MICROZE (Feb 25, 2017)

Totally agree with "Theo" and others that "Value" is based on what works for you.
However, I have created a formula with a pivot on *Monetary-Cost* [$$$$/Night] which sums up the total cost [MF, Club-Dues, Lock-Off, II-Membership, Exchange-Fees, E-Plus, Up-Size] of the Accommodations.
To accomplish this I had to create a Common-Currency [USD $/Night].
Being owners with Marriott [DCP-Enrolled: Deeded-Weeks + Points] + Vistana [Enrolled Deeded-Weeks that translate to Star-Options] I have created a table that converts my Vacation-Cost [Accommodation-Only] to a $/Night cost.
Since we also accumulate Marriott-Rewards [Hotel-Points] & SPG-Points [Hotel-Points], I list this as an option too for comparison to our TS and sometimes this works out to being a better option.
This way I am able to compare which is the best value:

TS-Week [Internal-Booking]
TS-Points [Internal-Booking] [Varying #-Days]
II-Exchange [INTERVAL] [1-Week]
Hotel-Rewards [Usually 5-Nights: 5th Night-Free]
Comparing all 4 Side-By-Side I am able to make a decision on what results in the best value $/Night.
*Note: *$/Night is 1 criteria. For others the Convenience/Simplicity/Lack-of-uncertainty/Flexibility may be more important than Cost [$/Night].


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## bruceskis (Feb 25, 2017)

I would appreciate the input from knowledgable owners on this aspect of the question about deeded weeks vs. points:
With deeded weeks there is a finite number of unit-weeks.  Only so many owners chasing a fixed number of beds.  They can't sell the same unit-week deed to more than one person.
With points - what keeps a developer from selling an unlimited number of points giving thousands of people theoretical 'access' to a fixed physical asset?  The developer is the one who assigns the number of points required to reserve a unit.  So, the number of points required to reserve the unit constantly goes up and up.....  Kind of like inflation where the Fed Reserve keeps printing money so that it takes more $ to buy that loaf of bread.
Is this something that sales people are supposed to explain?
Seems like a real winner for the developer because the MFs you are billed for are based on the number of points you own.  With more points floating the cost of maintenance of the fixed asset per point should be lower.  Has anyone ever seen the MF per point go down?


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## silentg (Feb 25, 2017)

We own an assortment, some fixed, points, and RTU. Each has value and we like the Variety. First one we owned was RTU has run its course no longer have. Second was a SA that we returned a few years ago, great Trader. Third is points thru HIVC we use this thru IHG for stays at hotels generally before or after a timeshare vacation. Fourth is a studio fixed close to family so we have our own place when we visit. Fifth is RTU in Europe. Sixth is one bedroom in Virginia used for trades fixed week, and seventh is a week at Siesta Key, also used for trade, Eight is week in Punta Gorda, FL  fixed RTU short lease. As of now we have 6 active timeshares and that's enough. Love  timeshares but no more sales presentations or purchases.
Silentg


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## sue1947 (Feb 25, 2017)

bruceskis said:


> I would appreciate the input from knowledgable owners on this aspect of the question about deeded weeks vs. points:
> With deeded weeks there is a finite number of unit-weeks.  Only so many owners chasing a fixed number of beds.  They can't sell the same unit-week deed to more than one person.
> With points - what keeps a developer from selling an unlimited number of points giving thousands of people theoretical 'access' to a fixed physical asset?  The developer is the one who assigns the number of points required to reserve a unit.  So, the number of points required to reserve the unit constantly goes up and up.....  Kind of like inflation where the Fed Reserve keeps printing money so that it takes more $ to buy that loaf of bread.
> Is this something that sales people are supposed to explain?
> Seems like a real winner for the developer because the MFs you are billed for are based on the number of points you own.  With more points floating the cost of maintenance of the fixed asset per point should be lower.  Has anyone ever seen the MF per point go down?



A couple of your assumptions are incorrect.  I just know my own system (Worldmark) but I assume the basics are the same in other systems.  There is not an unlimited number of points.  The number of points is determined at the time the resort is transferred from the developer.  That number of points can't be increased in the future.  The number of points per unit has to remain the same.  However, the seasons can be shifted around as long as the total points remain the same.  
However, the issue of too many points chasing too few weeks is a real problem.  They can develop a resort in a place nobody wants to go or someplace they don't have a sales center and sell those points generated by that resort at a more popular spot.  As a result, there are more points chasing the fewer popular weeks.  This means:  if you want to be guaranteed a holiday week at a popular spot, you are probably better off buying a fixed week.  If you want the flexibility of a points system to book different places each year, you need to plan your vacations a year+ in advance.   There is more work involved in the latter, especially if you want a school holiday week.  If you travel off season, then you can likely get your spot, but you need to pay attention as booking patterns change.  

Personally, I like the points option.  I would never buy a fixed week just because it's too restricting.  I want the flexibility to go different places for different lengths of time.  I travel off season but have also seen the booking patterns change.  Places I used to be able to book a few months in advance, now book up a year in advance so I need to pay more attention now than before.  However, the vacations I can take are worth the extra effort.  

Sue


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## princessfonzi (Feb 25, 2017)

We have a points system at Ridge Tahoe Resort, but we haven't been able to get any availability since we bought it a year ago. We have been to France, Poland, Pennsylvania, Chicago, San Francisco, Arizona last year and had to pay out of pocket for hotels because there wasn't any availability. On top of paying for maintenance fees and mortgage. The salesman showed us the resorts in Paris, but when we got our password for the exchange International, those locations weren't part of the trade, but for a discounted rate. Also, we found out, the higher points package get preferential status for reservations, which we didn't have. So, no, I don't think points are a good system so far.


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## gkreuscher (Feb 26, 2017)

Like everyone else, I think it depends on how we use our timeshare owenerships.  We have both Marriott points, Marriott weeks within their system, and Marriott weeks that we purchased on ebay, which are not in their system.  In the past we alwasy used Interval International to trade our Marriott weeks for other Marriotts. Today we are in the Marbella Beach Marriott in Marbella, Spain.  

The big variable for us has been interval international.  Recently Interval (II) increased their policy for trade charging more for trading an efficiency for a two bed room, one bed room and the exchange charge itself.  We have also found that it more difficult to trade for Marriott properties than in the past.  This has forced us to use the internal Marriott point system more.  Like some of you we also have over 400,000 Marriott Reward points, which we can trade for Marriott Hotel/Air packages.


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## sue1947 (Feb 26, 2017)

princessfonzi said:


> We have a points system at Ridge Tahoe Resort, but we haven't been able to get any availability since we bought it a year ago. We have been to France, Poland, Pennsylvania, Chicago, San Francisco, Arizona last year and had to pay out of pocket for hotels because there wasn't any availability. On top of paying for maintenance fees and mortgage. The salesman showed us the resorts in Paris, but when we got our password for the exchange International, those locations weren't part of the trade, but for a discounted rate. Also, we found out, the higher points package get preferential status for reservations, which we didn't have. So, no, I don't think points are a good system so far.



Did you put in an ongoing search for those trades?   If you listen to the timeshare salesman, he likely told you or implied it was easy to get into any location in the exchange system at any time.  A classic timeshare salesperson lie.  There are a lot of timeshare owners that want Chicago and San Francisco etc.  There are also a limited number of timeshares available.  Ongoing searches get filled first and then the leftovers go into the online pool where they get snatched up immediately.  
As far as exchanging goes, point systems and fixed week aren't that much different.  You just have to know how to use your system to the best advantage.  
Sue


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## Tigerjohn (Feb 26, 2017)

My experience is with DRI European collection. Yes it is a complex question and best broken down.
Fees - With fixed weeks you will be assessed in the country where the resort is but if you are a UK owner and the resort is in Eurozone if it has a negative effect like in 2016 then fee increases will be higher for that fixed week than points owner in EU collection who are assessed on a combo of UK and EU resorts.
Exchange - Points gives access to lots of resorts globally within DRI with no exchange fees payable. Unlike fixed week.
Points gives access to part week, discounted, upgraded choice of apartments, facility to book any week of the year (subject to availability), Fixed weeks have access to that week and strict check in days  which may have more expensive flights.
Resale - Fixed week owners are likely to be able to sell their weeks (albeit for a low price) whereas there is no real secondary market for points with DRI in Europe only allowing members to sell/give away points to existing members and DRI restrict the use of points to home collection resorts only and do not qualify for any club benefits (such as upgrades).
Points can be banked and brought forward from the next year (may be subject to a deposit payable on following years fees).
Points members can pay their fees by either one off payment or by 6 or 12 monthly interest free payments.
Fixed week owners have guaranteed access to their apartment on their specified week. Points members in home collection can book 13 months in advance  subject to availability. Difficulty is booking into USA collections where you only have a 10 month window.
Points members have access to upgrade apartments, free internet,facility to use their points to book hotels, cottages, cruises, etc.
DRI have now introduced Luxury cruises and members can redeem up to 30% of the cost of tthe cruise in points and redeem this in value at 30p/point whereas a member may only pay 10p/point maintenance fees.
Points members can exchange via Interval International and points members Interval fees are included in their management fees.
Points members have also access to book resorts outside of the DRI portfolio of resorts via Instant getaways and Club Select (club combinations).
Growing points holding - Members can acquire points for free from other members and then add these to their tier level of Club qualifying points by purchasing 50% of the total quantity of those resale points to convert them all to Club points.
Another note on comparison of fees - I recently took an 18 day vacation in a 2 bed apartment at Sunset Bay club in Tenerife and after paying to upgrade this from a one bedroom to a two bedroom apartment I paid £822 total. The  weekly maintenance fee for a  fixed week owner for a 2 bed apartment is £500/week. This represents a saving for the 18 days of £463.71.

For more independent information on all opinion on DRI for fixed and points owners (or looking to buy or sell resale weeks/points) then why not join the current 7400 members currently registered on the following Facebook group - Diamond Resorts International members.  DRI have no control over the content on the group - It is totally run with the members interests at heart.


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## JohnPaul (Feb 26, 2017)

fiat1bmw said:


> We have a fixed week and haven't tried points.  Stratgically, with a points system, IMO using points allow the management to oversell.



If your points company is legitimate, the property underlying the points is in a trust or similar instrument owned by the points owners, and can't sell more points than are in the trust. 

Worldmark did cause some problems about 10 years ago when they put resorts in places people didn't really want to go so the points chasing the popular resorts made for availability issues.  With the resorts the have since added I think this problem has eased.

Personally I'm a big planner so this was never really an issue for me.

A similar issue can happen at an independent resort with floating weeks.  If a bunch of weeks go unused because no one reserves them, then there are too many people going for the remaining weeks even though they technically don't have more sold weeks than available weeks. 

So, once again it all comes back to what works for you.  If you are happy going to the same place at the same time every year and don't like having to plan ahead then a fixed week may be perfect for you.

On the other hand, if you are willing to do some planning then the flexibility of points can be amazing.


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## Wahootom (Feb 26, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> If your points company is legitimate, the property underlying the points is in a trust or similar instrument owned by the points owners, and can't sell more points than are in the trust.
> 
> Worldmark did cause some problems about 10 years ago when they put resorts in places people didn't really want to go so the points chasing the popular resorts made for availability issues.  With the resorts the have since added I think this problem has eased.
> 
> ...




JohnPaul and others

Thank you and others for their response.
A week or so ago my wife and I sat through a Royal Timeshare presentation in Cancun. It was a points presentation. We did not buy points. I failed to ask a couple of questions and wondered whether you or others could comment.

1.Under  a points system, what happens to your points if you die? We have a timeshare in NC and deed to Week 44; so it  becomes part of our estate...maybe more hassle than its worth, but nonetheless a recorded property interest.

2."If your points company is legitimate, the property underlying the points is in a true or similar instrument owned by the points owners and can't sell more points than are in the trust". The Royal's presentation (the Royal Hacienda et. al.) we attended indicated that we could purchase week six (mid February) for  unit XXXX  for about 4200 points; correspondingly, week 23  for unit XXXX was valued at about 2100 points.  Correspondingly, you could convert those points to RCI at a rate of 12 to 1. While the legal rights of the parties depends upon the contract (every resorts contract varies) your general thoughts and comments on the following questions is welcome:

       (a)  Based on a discussion with the TUG member/owner we rented from (By the way TUG's guidelines were helpful and the TUG member/owner superb in our transaction), the Royal H is substantially traditional Timeshares. I asked during the presentation what would happen if we wanted week 6 in unit XXXX (or similar) at the Royal H and nothing was available:  Answer: they would go out and buy the week from the owner. Sounded to good to be true. I think they would transfer us  to one of the other Royal resorts in Cancun. Also it struck me that they were selling points in a resort (the Royal H) that was fully (80%- my guess) sold to traditional timeshare owners. Of course the 4200 points could be converted to RCI at a 12 to one ratio--not sure what that would buy us.

       (b)  I failed to ask this, but does the Resort have the right to change the value of the points per unit and per week. Can the resort re-value week 6 and unit XXXX by increasing in future years the points necessary for week. By way of example,  in 2023 will unit XXXX (or similar unit) still be valued at 4200 points or are they unilaterally able to increase (maybe decrease??) the price of the unit for week 6. Would I have to buy more points in 2023 to occupy unit XXXX in 2023.  

So....while I have been a member of TUG for years, this is my first post (I think) and view myself as "new" to this field. thanks in advance for your/others response.

TS


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## theo (Mar 1, 2017)

Some great questions, to which I personally cannot provide informed answers.
I will note however that whatever those answers might be here in the U.S., they *may* not be the same or applicable south of the border. 

Here in the U.S., Hyatt is currently in the process of forming and adopting a "points only" program going forward. Deeded owners within Hyatt *have* indeed *already* seen changes in the allocated points value of their deeded weeks. This observation is perhaps irrelevant to your questions however, maybe comparing apples to oranges, since you are asking about a RTU operation in Mexico, not about points associated with deeded weeks here in the USA.


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## qwerty (Mar 1, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> THIS IS A VERY OPEN ENDED QUESTION, WHICH IS GENERALLY A BETTER VALUE,  POINTS OR A TRADITIONAL TIMESHARE.


If you can acquire a traditional T/S that you would like to use every year and at a reasonable cost that would be the very best option. Other than your owner M/F, no extra annual exchange or membership cost, etc.
If you want flexibility to travel and can acquire a "point" T/S at a reasonable cost, that would be the best option.
Of course, choosing which "point" system to acquire is very complicated and I have no advice which would work best for you.
I own RCI "weeks" and "points". For the most part, my "weeks" T/S are basically worthless for exchanging are currently in the "deed back" process.
After I no longer own at that "weeks" resort, I can actually use points to stay there at less cost than my current M/F.
Having both, I have seen that using points would get me into a "weeks" resort more easily.


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## scooterge558 (Mar 1, 2017)

Randy, first of all I'd like to welcome you to TUG, and say what a good idea, getting some insight to how different Timeshare companies before your purchase, this is a very good idea in order to determine maybe which would be better. Like a lot of others have already stated it really truly depends on how you want to use it, and how you intend to use it. 

For instance if you like flexibility of going to different resorts, different times of year, different lengths of stay, then you may like a points based ownership. I think also someone else mentioned looking or knowing which brand you prefer, I'm not sure this matters much, as being a member of a points based system, can sometimes allow for access to one of the trading systems (II, or RCI) and allows transfer from Wyndham (for instance) to Marriott (for instance), or from Marriott (for instance) to Disney (for instance). 

All of this said the which is better is as others have said, it's a personal preference thing. We (family and I) personally really like the flexibility that the points systems we're in and would not be able to get as much from a fixed week, fixed unit system. Again, though, that's our personal preference, and the way we use our timeshare. 

As Sue stated you do have to work a bit for the planning within the points based systems and there is none of that in the fixed week, fixed unit systems, however for us, the flexibility it offers is greater than the guarantee that we're going to the same place again this year we went last year, at the same exact time of year.


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## JohnPaul (Mar 4, 2017)

Points systems come in at least two flavors.

We own West 57th St in NYC by Hilton.  Technically we own a specific week in a specific unit and pay property taxes on it.  However, we do not own a fixed week and do not have the right to use that specific unit on that specific week.  Our ownership equals XXX points that can be used to reserve space according to the system rules.   So, this is a point system backed by a specific deeded ownership.

We also own Vacation Internationale and Worldmark.  These are systems where all of the properties are owned by the trust or similar instrument and we own a small portion of that trust with the ability to reserve units according to the system rules.  In these two systems, I can reserve any property that is part of the program to the extent that I have enough points.  

In a third variation, we also own Shell Vacations Club.    Like many other systems, before there was SVC with the points system they sold deeded weeks.  As such, any inventory in their properties that is still owned by an individual deeded owner is not a part of SVC and is not available to me for use.  I've never had problems with this but in some systems it might seem like you have tons of choices but in reality maybe only 20% of some properties are available to use with points.

Recap, look into programs that seem like they would meet your needs and learn as much as you can about that specific program so that you understand exactly what you are getting.  Important factors include, what exactly is in the program to reserve, what are the rules about when you can make reservations and any length of stay or check in day rules, how do housekeeping fees work, can I borrow and bank points, what fees are involved (for reservations, banking, etc) as well as the obvious like cost to buy in and Maintenance Fees.


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## JohnPaul (Mar 4, 2017)

Day of the week impact with points.

With most point systems, you can start your stay any day of the week and stay for as long or as short as you want.  This makes it important to understand that different days typically have different point costs.

A typical approach is that Friday and Saturday are the most expensive (anywhere from 50% more than a week day to 3 times as much), with Sunday and Thursday the next most expensive and Monday to Wednesday as cheapest.  

Other impacts to your point cost are season and unit size.  

Let me give you a crazy example from Shell Vacations Club.  One of their properties in San Francisco is the Donatello.  They are very large studio units in a very popular big city location.  To stay a Friday night costs 1050 to 1150 shell points depending on season.

We stayed at their very nice property in New Hampshire in a lovely one bedroom unit for three nights midweek in off off season.  It cost us a total of 300 shell points for the whole stay.  

That's why it is so hard to answer the question "How much time do you own?" when you own points.  It's all in how you use the points.


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## JohnPaul (Mar 4, 2017)

Cash Options with Worldmark Point System

Also, most points system have bonus time which let's you just pay $$ for near term (typically within 15 days) use.  

Worldmark has two other programs that I find extremely useful.  I don't think either is guaranteed to be around forever as my belief it is a way for the Developer to rent unsold points.  

Inventory specials have been around as long as we have owned (since 2001).  Inventory specials are for space that is not expected to be reserved through the normal processes (slow times).  They show three months out of inventory specials and you can book 60 days before your stay.  It is offered as either anytime or mid-week only (Sunday to Thursday).  The rate is 6.3 cents a credit/point and includes housekeeping.  That is the same rate as bonus time.

A few years ago (maybe more - as we know time flies), they started Monday Madness.  Each Monday the offer a group of properties to book during that week.  They are typically themed (SW, golf, cities, coastal, Washington, etc).  A couple of times a year they open the program to every property for a few weeks.  The cost is 7 cents a credit/point and it includes housekeeping.  With Monday Madness you can book as far out as 11 month.

In both programs, the minimum is $50 a night even if the points times rate are less than that.

I use bonus time, inventory specials and Monday Madness a lot.  In the last year I used 15 nights at variety of properties.  They were one and two bedroom units and a mix of weekends and weekdays.  Including the taxes that some municipalities require, I paid an average of under $100 per night.  A number of those nights were in Seattle where downtown hotel rates start at around $300 a night before a ton of taxes.  I consider that to be a very good deal.


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## irandy1948 (Mar 14, 2017)

You all have a ton of knowledge on "Time Shares" of all varieties. I appreciate the time you all took to give me guidance. 
I need to go back and reread these post to try and get a handle on this info as we go forward in choosing what to buy. Again 
thank you very much for your responses.


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## irandy1948 (Mar 14, 2017)

Here are my answers for the "beginner" questions. Can you folks tell any thing from this?

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?* Gatlinburg TN. area*

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? *1/2 the time*

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations? *Hilton Head, SC, Myrtle Beach, SC, Williamsburg, Orlando, Edisto SC*

4) How many people do you usually travel with? *2*

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? *any time*

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance? *yes*

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time? *yes*

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?* 4*

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? *$2000.00*

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?* $1200*

11) Are you a detail oriented planner? *yes*

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? *yes*


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## Braindead (Mar 14, 2017)

With where you want to go and your initial purchase target. I would look into Wyndham points contract


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 14, 2017)

And those points should be deeded to the resort YOUR family wants to stay at. ARP is 13 months til 10months plus 1 day before checkin. Can always cancel the reservation up to 15 days before checkin to use the points later.

But as a resale buyer ... you have to figure in on 'rebooking' something later is ANOTHER Reservation Transaction used (and if you have used all your RTs for the year, dollars need to be paid to make another RT).


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## irandy1948 (Mar 14, 2017)

For give me but what is ARP and RT? I don't know.....nothing.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 14, 2017)

Advance Reservation Priority and Reservation Transaction.

ARP is your home resort window which you can book but the vast masses on non-owners of deeds at the resort can't ... 13, 12, and 11 months before checkin date.

Reservation Transactions (RT) is a token each owner gets for each full 77,000 Wyndham points that they own. Back in the early years of the Wyndham points systems ... most weeks were multiples of 77K to book. ie 77K, 154K, 231K, 308K etc. It was just an easy way to say ... most of the time you did not need to buy extra RTs ... just don't be wishy-washy with deciding were to go. HKs (housekeeping credits) are issued for each 1,000 Wyndham points under your member number. Both HKs and RTs are given out yearly per Use Year (Jan, Apr, Jul or Oct are the possible Use Years).


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## bruceskis (May 7, 2017)

sue1947 said:


> A couple of your assumptions are incorrect.  I just know my own system (Worldmark) but I assume the basics are the same in other systems.  There is not an unlimited number of points.  The number of points is determined at the time the resort is transferred from the developer.  That number of points can't be increased in the future.  The number of points per unit has to remain the same.  However, the seasons can be shifted around as long as the total points remain the same.
> However, the issue of too many points chasing too few weeks is a real problem.  They can develop a resort in a place nobody wants to go or someplace they don't have a sales center and sell those points generated by that resort at a more popular spot.  As a result, there are more points chasing the fewer popular weeks.  This means:  if you want to be guaranteed a holiday week at a popular spot, you are probably better off buying a fixed week.  If you want the flexibility of a points system to book different places each year, you need to plan your vacations a year+ in advance.   There is more work involved in the latter, especially if you want a school holiday week.  If you travel off season, then you can likely get your spot, but you need to pay attention as booking patterns change.
> 
> Personally, I like the points option.  I would never buy a fixed week just because it's too restricting.  I want the flexibility to go different places for different lengths of time.  I travel off season but have also seen the booking patterns change.  Places I used to be able to book a few months in advance, now book up a year in advance so I need to pay more attention now than before.  However, the vacations I can take are worth the extra effort.
> ...


After some more research in my un-named point system, I believe that your assumption about all point based systems being the same is in error.


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## sue1947 (May 7, 2017)

bruceskis said:


> After some more research in my un-named point system, I believe that your assumption about all point based systems being the same is in error.



Huh?  In what way?  My statement was in response to the statement that systems can oversell points to have more owners than available units.  If your 'un-named system' has more owners than available units someplace (note not available in a specific time or place), then you should stop being coy and inform others so they can avoid that system.   
Sue


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## taterhed (May 9, 2017)

bruceskis said:


> After some more research in my un-named point system, I believe that your assumption about all point based systems being the same is in error.





sue1947 said:


> Huh?  In what way?  My statement was in response to the statement that systems can oversell points to have more owners than available units.  If your 'un-named system' has more owners than available units someplace (note not available in a specific time or place), then you should stop being coy and inform others so they can avoid that system.
> Sue




Well... I think you're both right in some ways.

If you buy into some 'South of the Border' timeshare offer with 'points' being sold, there is absolutely no guarantee what will happen.  That, unfortunately, goes for fixed weeks as well.  And, good luck getting rid of it when you decide that government sanctioned/sponsored/tolerated violence and vacations just don't seem to go together.  Also, IMHO, points traded or based on RCI or Interval 'points' are far more likely to morph into something 'less useful' than some other systems.  Again, IMHO.  The exchange companies always seem to have a scheme to increase the cost of trading or exchanging ownership.......in my short but painful memory of such events.  Just to be clear, I'm not slamming RCI or Interval, just those rare systems designed to convert points.  I'm not sure that either company is actively promoting those systems any more????


But, on the other hand.... I do think that the major timeshare systems which utilize points for some portion of the ownership have far more in common than they differ.  While they may alter the system to equalize private use vs commercial (rental) use or re-value certain regions or resorts to make it advantageous to buy more points or trade-up, they certainly aren't in the business of making the business model fail.....they appear, in fact, to be constantly inventing new ways to recycle or recover points (for free) and continue to profit on new (used) point sales!  Maybe PT Barnum had it right (or D.H.)

I own weeks and points.  I love my Marriotts (boy do I!) but I just built a last-minute week in Vancouver and Victoria (including a Penthouse) and really appreciate my Worldmark right now.

Again, just my 2c worth.


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## taterhed (May 9, 2017)

Randy1948 said:


> Here are my answers for the "beginner" questions. Can you folks tell any thing from this?
> 
> 1) Where do you want your home resort to be?* Gatlinburg TN. area*
> 
> ...




I said I'd get back to you....so I will.  Sorry it' taken so long.
Your area's (Gat, MB, Hilton, et al) certain favor Wyndham.  Wyndham is large, affordable and flexible.  Point's buy and sell pretty easily. There are many pitfalls to buying a W. contract though....don't try and do it on your own.  You'll regret it.  Use the experts here at TUG (not me) to get some answers and guidance.
Your buy-in and budget would allow a reasonable number of points.  Just keep in mind:  MF's are for life (or until you sell/give-away the resort).. MF's go up every year.  Don't jump in too quickly...think once (and long) and buy once.  

A final thought:  EVERYBODY want's a peak beach-week at MB or HHI during the summer.  There are not enough peak-week 2br's to satisfy everyone that wants one....  Study and ask questions (and have realistic expectations) before leaping into the pool.....and finding there's no pool to reserve at HHI or Myrtle when you want it!

Good luck.


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