# Smuggler's Notch, Vermont - Looking for contacts



## Grimplin (Mar 25, 2014)

Hi Everyone,
  Very new here and have spent a bunch of time reading through various pages as I delve into the idea of a Timeshare. I have just returned from some time at Smuggs and the whole time there I was thinking how nice it would be to have the regular option to return.

  I am hoping there may be a few current Smuggs' Owners on here that may be able to share their experiences and opinions with me as I investigate this option a little more thoroughly.

  Feel free to contact me privately or through this thread. If anyone else has information or experiences to share I am happy to receive all you throw at me. I have seen a few Smuggler's Notch resales that interest me already, but I want to take my time on this and make sure I have considered everything carefully.

Cheers.


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## DeniseM (Mar 25, 2014)

Welcome - The best thing to do is to post your questions in this thread, and then owners will see them and answer them.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 26, 2014)

Hello. We have been club owners (weeks-not points)at Smuggs since 1999- and actually had even been visiting there a couple of years before that. I am also a member of the VT 251 Club, so I know a lot about the area as well. What exactly do you want to know? 

Mary Ann


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## Grimplin (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks Mary Ann and Denise. I will certainly pick up some tidbits from your expertise.

Mary Ann - Since you have been at Smuggs for so long perhaps you can give me a little information. Ideally I would be looking at a fixed week + floating week timeshare. I see some of these available on various reseller sites. The fixed week would be in the Winter, hopefully week 11 or 12. 

Do you find most Smuggs timeshare owners are happy with their purchase?
Did the inclusion of Wyndham into the resort change things in any dramatic way?
Have maintenance fees increased at a reasonable rate? I would be interested in what they may have looked like over the last 5-10 years.
Have there been any special assessments?
Are there any major concerns or issues currently? Or in the recent past that caused owners to consider selling their stake.
Do you have any frustrations or unhappiness as a current club owner?
Are there any other questions I should be asking right off the bat? 

Basically I would like to get a feel for the timeshare experience at Smuggs. I just came back from a week there in Liftside 19 and was quite happy with the deal I received through Smuggs itself that included the camps and lift tickets. I question (with a maintenance fee) if the maintenace fee increases too much, why it is not just better off to book through Smuggs. After the maintenance fee one would still need to purchase tickets and camps (although my kids will not always be in camps) and I feel that the prices would almost be similar in the end.

Cheers.


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## massvacationer (Mar 26, 2014)

I don't own at Smuggs so I don't offer a great deal of info regarding the resort (I have stayed and skiied at Smuggs though)

But, one other alternative would be to buy Wyndham Points and book units that way.  You would probably want to buy CWA points, as I believe most of the Wyndham deeds were dumped into CWA.  That would give you ARP.


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## Grimplin (Mar 26, 2014)

CWA? - is that Club Wyndham ______________
ARP?

Is there a forum page with all these acronyms? I am new to this.

If I understand points (and I think I do - but could be wrong ) they would not give me a fixed week, but rather I would need to book in every year for the weeks I want.

Fixed weeks currently appeal to me greatly. My vacation time is exactly the same weeks every year and unless my employment changes, it will be that way until I retire. 

Points are appealing in the idea that they give you more freedom in a sense, but I am not even sure that is true, since I read about people exchanging timeshares or selling their time slots.

What would you feel the benefits or points are?

Certainly it would seem at Smuggs that the Wyndham owners have access to the newer (nicer) units.

Cheers


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## WinniWoman (Mar 26, 2014)

We owned a fixed summer week 30 with a floater in Sycamores. We never converted to points or Wyndham because we like what we have just fine. We live in Hudson Valley, NY and it is about a 5 1/2 hour pleasant ride for us. We have one child- who is now grown (26) and still likes to meet us there when we go. (He lives in new Hampshire). Smuggs is like a second home to all of us.

Most of the Smugg owners I know are very happy with their ownership and I know a lot of long-time owners We have a group on YAHOO where we converse with each other often.

Smuggs has changed over the years. Hell- what doesn't? We noticed a difference when they started getting involved with RCI points and definitely a difference with Wyndham. We now see a lot more different/additional faces, but we also see many of the same people year after year by the pool, etc. and it is always fun to catch up when we do. It used to have a more homey feel and with the changes and growth it is just not the same as it was. But the resort does try to preserve the feel somewhat and I guess we are sentimental about it and it's ok.

I feel the maintenance fees have reasonably increased over the years. They now have HOA's for each building group, so that is something different than they have had in the past. How this turns out over time, we will have to see. But, I guess they had to do it due to new VT laws. It should hopefully be a positive thing.

I only recall one special assessment a long time ago in all the years we have owned. I can't even remember what it was for.

There are always some disgruntled owners. Some are upset because now management at Smuggs no longer helps with resales because of Wyndham, things like that. We have been extremely happy overall. I must admit, I am a bit of a pain in the "ars"- if I don't like something I am on that phone complaining. But they are pretty much attentive. I send emails to owner services, etc. 

The president (Bob Mulcahey) there has retired now and so I don't know what the affect of that will be on the resort as well.

In terms of purchasing and the benefits package, I believe you could purchase a package to go with your ownership so you would not be paying every year. For us, way back when, we purchased benefits of 20 years out- but we bought the expensive way through the developer. We have both winter and summer benefits. But, we don't ski.

Of course, you could also just rent every year from a club owner directly instead of through the resort. We do that sometimes if we want to go an additional week. 

We do like that we know what unit and building we own in  (we have a nice view on the top floor, etc.). It feels like our own vacation home- a second home we come back to every year. But, if you don't care about that, renting is a good choice.

Also, in terms of our floater, in the past we were always able to exchange it and went to great places all over the country with it. We have only exchanged our fixed week once in all these years. We now use the floater up there as well as to not bother with RCI and the fees, etc. When we want to go somewhere else in addition to our weeks at Smuggs, we rent from other owners in other places.

You don't have to buy Wyndham to have nicer units. There are fixed weeks in Sycamores, Aspens and Tamaracks and Willows that are all really nice if you can buy directly through an owner.You could also buy in an older building and try to exchange into them, but I personally think that is more of a headache. I like knowing what I have and when I am going period.

Anything else you need to know, ask away...I also might add that now with Wyndham I do think the infusion of money into Smuggs will help greatly as the economy has been down for quite a few years, so that's a good thing.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 26, 2014)

Grimplin said:


> CWA? - is that Club Wyndham ______________
> ARP?
> 
> Is there a forum page with all these acronyms? I am new to this.
> ...


From what I hear, there are less benefits to having points now, as in RCI points. But some people like being in the Wyndham group for various reasons. But it sounds to me you are more in my camp-you would like knowing what you have and wanting to go where you own. Buying at a resort that you want to use I think you would have the most satisfaction, in case you can't go elsewhere or afford airfare, or traveling at other times, etc. I assume you are within driving distance to Smuggs?

PS I do not know what those acronyms mean either. This is why I like simplification- a deeded vacation set weeks, etc.


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## antjmar (Mar 26, 2014)

Grimplin said:


> What would you feel the benefits or points are?
> 
> Certainly it would seem at Smuggs that the Wyndham owners have access to the newer (nicer) units.
> 
> Cheers


I think the wyndham points are a great choice you can choose different size units each year from a studio to a 4 bedroom! 
If you'd like a short stay (even 1 night if available) or want to  extend your week you can do this.
If something comes up 15 days prior to travel you can cancel and still have your points. 
If you want multiple  units for the same week with points you can do this (if you have enough)
I dont think week 11 or 12 would be difficult to book every year at 10 months out if thats what you wanted to do.


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## uscav8r (Mar 26, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> From what I hear, there are less benefits to having points now, as in RCI points. But some people like being in the Wyndham group for various reasons. But it sounds to me you are more in my camp-you would like knowing what you have and wanting to go where you own. Buying at a resort that you want to use I think you would have the most satisfaction, in case you can't go elsewhere or afford airfare, or traveling at other times, etc. I assume you are within driving distance to Smuggs?
> 
> PS I do not know what those acronyms mean either. This is why I like simplification- a deeded vacation set weeks, etc.




Acronym jargon seems difficult/complicated, but it's not if you are part if that system (and a participant on TUG).

Wyndham has various types of ownerships, one of which is Club Wyndham Access (CWA), which affords one the ability to book a CWA resort at 13 months (the Advance Reservation Priority period or ARP).

All of the details on these and other Wyndham-specific terms and how people use them can be found in the Wyndham forum under Timeshare Resort Systems. 

One of the OP's questions that has not been fully answered is that of how much maintenance fees are. While each HOA likely has a different annual mf, current owners can say how much they are paying for say a 2 BR. There could be a big difference between owning at Smuggs and owning a CWA ownership. 

I do know that the mf for a Prime week Wyndham 2 BR unit using the CWA avenue is roughly $1010/year. Other types of Wyndham ownerships can get this same unit for less than $900/year, but can only book at 10 months out vice 13. 

So let's hear some numbers from current Smuggs owners for comparison. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## persia (Mar 27, 2014)

Is ARP necessary at Smuggs?  Could you get Christmas week 10 months out at 7 AM?  Smuggs RCI reservations are pointswise cheaper through RCI than directly through Wyndham, but of course it's a $200 exchange fee and no Smuggspass if you go through RCI.


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I am about 6 hours away by car, and I also love the drive through Upstate New York and Vermont.

Mary Ann you mention that they have HOA's for each building group. Does the maintenace fee go to the HOA for each building group then? Thus I would presume if a specific building needed something major  (special assessment) then the owners in that building would be responsible for it?

I do like the idea of a fixed unit at a fixed time of year, but I must admit when I hear that CWA comes with the Smuggs pass it does make me think a little.

When I look on the real estate boars it would seem a number of the Homes (Do they call that full ownership?) at Smuggs are for sale. Is this an average number? Are there more for sale now then in the past.

I also noticed that the President had stepped down and was wondering what changes that might bring. I would be interested to see if Smuggs remains a private entity or if it gets bought out like so many resorts over the last few decades.

I like the atmosphere at Smuggs, but I also anticipate that it will need to change with the times if it wants to continue to attract vacationers. Ski resorts that do not change, tend to get left behind quickly. However, its current strengths are really what attract me to Smuggs

Do you know if Smuggs or the HOA keeps a list of individuals who might be interested in selling their timeshares?

Do you have any idea what Smuggs wants for their timeshare units? I avoided going to the presentations while there as I wanted to spend my time skiing. I did tell one person that if they were willing to ride the lifts with me all day they could try to sell me there.

I would like to start comparing resale value to what they are asking.

Cheers.


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## petertdavis (Mar 27, 2014)

Being that I'm originally from that are and visit often (multiple times a year), I seriously considered buying at Smuggs.  I spent a considerable amount of time scouting out the market for weeks at Smuggs, also quarter shares and whole ownership.  Also looked into Jay, Killington and several places in Stowe.  

As far as weeks at Smuggs go, my conclusion is that it is always, not almost always, just always, cheaper to rent from someone who has a lot of Wyndham points than it is to own.  

If it weren't for the Wifi situation there I'd probably stay there every ski weekend during the winter.


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## uscav8r (Mar 27, 2014)

petertdavis said:


> ...
> 
> As far as weeks at Smuggs go, my conclusion is that it is always, not almost always, just always, cheaper to rent from someone who has a lot of Wyndham points than it is to own.
> 
> If it weren't for the Wifi situation there I'd probably stay there every ski weekend during the winter.




This leads me to believe a direct Smuggs ownership has higher maintenance fees than owning Wyndham points and using them at Smuggs. 

How much is the wifi for a week? Is the 4G coverage (specifically Verizon) good enough to avoid using wifi?


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> This leads me to believe a direct Smuggs ownership has higher maintenance fees than owning Wyndham points and using them at Smuggs.
> 
> How much is the wifi for a week? Is the 4G coverage (specifically Verizon) good enough to avoid using wifi?
> 
> ...



Wifi when I was there was $30.00 for the week, which would allow you to connect up to 12 devices with the same password.

So - I find this path of talk interesting. How would I be able to find out how many points are needed for certain weeks?


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## antjmar (Mar 27, 2014)

uscav8r said:


> Is the 4G coverage (specifically Verizon) good enough to avoid using wifi?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes it was fine for my iphone.



Grimplin said:


> How would I be able to find out how many points are needed for certain weeks?


For a prime week (weeks 1-12) a 2 br ranges from 154k to 224K. A 2 br presidential is 400k for the week.
dont know how to post the image sorry.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 27, 2014)

Smugg owners get a discount on the wi-fi- I think it is like $15.

My maintenance fees are about $740 per week each for the fixed and floater for a 2 bedroom in Sycamores.Again, my benefits / passes were included in the purchase price for 20 years out.

When I have rented from another owner through the smuggs website swap column, it was usually for a little bit (a few hundred) over the maintenance fees or even equal to the fees. However, some owners charge prime $$$ for some prime weeks, which I find too expensive to rent.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 27, 2014)

Grimplin said:


> Thanks everyone for your responses.
> 
> I am about 6 hours away by car, and I also love the drive through Upstate New York and Vermont.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't know too much about the workings of the HOA's. We have only had them for about 2 years..

As for the homes for sale, I think a lot of full owners have probably aged out. With the real estate market the way it is, it is not easy to sell those things..

All sales are now handled by Wyndham and the prices are outrageous. Smuggs no longer gets involved with sales (which infuriates current owners looking to sell) If anything, you should buy resale. Look on TUG and Redweek and EBay- on the internet...there are various other sites..

I don't know how old you are, but if you are buying you want to make sure you will use it for a very long time, pay cash (no loans) and buy as cheaply as possible, especially due to your need for the benefits pass. 

We are older now and when our benefits expire, we will not renew unless possibly we have grandchildren. That is why we bought in Sycamores, which has it's own pool and clubhouse- enough for us older folk.

I do like the fixed week as I mentioned. I like not having to worry about booking in advance and so on. We just show up...but, points work well for a lot of people, especially if you don't mind the advanced planning. I do recommend at least a 2 bedroom or maybe 3, depending on your family. As kids get older, they like to take their friends and later on you might want to invite friends- there are many times we wish we had a 3 bedroom even though it is just the 2 of us now! But, we really love our unit and are happy with it. And, we have exchanged our floater back into Smuggs in the past and were able to get a 3 bedroom in Sycamores off-season...


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## petertdavis (Mar 27, 2014)

We stayed in the Sycamores for Christmas week, it's kind of nice up there and certainly quieter.  I kind of prefer being closer to the village center, though I thought the rooms were nicer where we were in the Sycamores.  

Someone mentioned about Smuggs full ownership, yes they do sell those too.  But, if you're seriously considering that route, I'd highly recommend looking at Jay Peak too.  What I saw in the same price range at Jay was bigger and newer and Jay has added some nice things that Smuggs can't compete with over the past few years like the Pump House.

I really wanted to go to Jay for Christmas week in fact, it was just that the Smuggs weeks are so cheap I just couldn't pass it up.


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

antjmar said:


> For a prime week (weeks 1-12) a 2 br ranges from 154k to 224K.



What would that calculate to in monetary terms?


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Smugg owners get a discount on the wi-fi- I think it is like $15.
> 
> My maintenance fees are about $740 per week each for the fixed and floater for a 2 bedroom in Sycamores.Again, my benefits / passes were included in the purchase price for 20 years out.
> 
> When I have rented from another owner through the smuggs website swap column, it was usually for a little bit (a few hundred) over the maintenance fees or even equal to the fees. However, some owners charge prime $$$ for some prime weeks, which I find too expensive to rent.



Do your know if timeshare owners who bought from the resort and those who buy a resale have the same rights in terms of swapping and exchanging?

While what I am considering is planned to be long term, I don't think the benefits package would offset what it would cost to to buy from Smuggs/Wyndham vs buying resale. 

For interests sake I would be really keen to discover the current going rates for timeshares at Smuggs. I doubt that they publish this information do they?


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> I honestly don't know too much about the workings of the HOA's. We have only had them for about 2 years..
> 
> As for the homes for sale, I think a lot of full owners have probably aged out. With the real estate market the way it is, it is not easy to sell those things..
> 
> ...



I agree with you that the home prices do seem quite high considering what you get. I am not really interested in that route. Well perhaps for a moment or two it peaked my interest, but not much longer. 

I have seen some week 11 resales with a floating week in the $2000 - $3000 range. Frankly I have no idea if this is a good deal or not at this time. Maintenance fees for each week tend to be about $750.00 from what I have seen. Some a little higher, some a little lower.


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## Grimplin (Mar 27, 2014)

petertdavis said:


> We stayed in the Sycamores for Christmas week, it's kind of nice up there and certainly quieter.  I kind of prefer being closer to the village center, though I thought the rooms were nicer where we were in the Sycamores.
> 
> Someone mentioned about Smuggs full ownership, yes they do sell those too.  But, if you're seriously considering that route, I'd highly recommend looking at Jay Peak too.  What I saw in the same price range at Jay was bigger and newer and Jay has added some nice things that Smuggs can't compete with over the past few years like the Pump House.
> 
> I really wanted to go to Jay for Christmas week in fact, it was just that the Smuggs weeks are so cheap I just couldn't pass it up.



I have been to Jay and like it there as well, although to be honest I find it to be a bit of a Zoo at times. When comparing prices, for this years vacation, Smuggs just couldn't be beat. The Third week of march is not considered their peak season and rates drop. 

However, I do see what you are saying. Not really considering full ownership, I just saw a number of places for sale. Usually the older units it would seem, which do have their fair share of criticism.

Frankly, when I go skiing I don't really need an extravagant place to stay, but If I do purchase a timeshare unit at Smuggs i would ideally be looking at one of the newer units.


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## uscav8r (Mar 27, 2014)

Grimplin said:


> What would that calculate to in monetary terms?




154k points ~ $846
224k points ~ $1245

That assumes CWA mf. My particular blend of points would knock another 10% off those numbers. 

Obviously there needs to be an apples to apples comparison. I don't have the chart in front if me, but the wide range in points depends on which building/HOA one reserves. 


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## WinniWoman (Mar 28, 2014)

The rates you see for the resales are good in my opinion...You, of course, would want to know which building and unit you would be getting.The prices directly from Wyndham depend on which salesperson you get, but I will tell you you will be in the 5 digits....Again, would also depend on the unit/building, time of year, # of bedrooms, etc...

The Sycamores, Aspens, Tamaracks are the newer units. However, Willows is also nice. There are older units in the village and some are really nice as well, again, depending on what building they are in.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 28, 2014)

"Do your know if timeshare owners who bought from the resort and those who buy a resale have the same rights in terms of swapping and exchanging?"

We haven't exchanged in a number of years now, so we no longer belong to RCI. I assume there is still a priority for owners, but I really don't know..Used to be we had a separate RCI phone number we could call and were also given priority for exchanges..

As for swapping- yes. Smuggs has a swap column on line for owners. This is where you can see what is available to swap, rent, and you can also list your own unit for the same. You can only swap fixed weeks on here, not floaters. There are also bonus weeks for sale on going for the cheap-one tome use.

Other places to check resales- there is a site http://smuggsowners.com/
Also, http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshare/Smugglers'+Notch+Resort/resort/buy-timeshare/- this one I have no info about in terms of legitimacy, etc.

Also, http://www.vermonttimesharebrokerage.com/rent.php (run by former timeshare salesperson that worked at Smuggs. Laura sold me ours. But, I believe you will see much higher prices here.


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## foofoo528 (May 27, 2014)

*Cost of extras at Smugger's*

Hi 
Booked for a week this summer and a week this winter. Bought my points resale--- are pool passes included?  Ski passes? 

Thanks


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## uscav8r (May 28, 2014)

foofoo528 said:


> Hi
> Booked for a week this summer and a week this winter. Bought my points resale--- are pool passes included?  Ski passes?
> 
> Thanks



If you are there as a Wyndham owner (resale or not), you get access to the pools and some other basic Pass amenities. From the Wyndham website:

_Pools, Hot Tubs, Outdoor Water Slide, Children's Water Play areas, Games  and Arcade rooms at the Community Center located in your condominium  neighborhood are available at no charge._

Ski passes, however, are not included, though there is a slight discount. See http://www.smuggs.com/pages/universal/wyndham/.

From what I understand, exchangers and RCI reservations need to pay to get the equivalent Smuggs Pass, though I could be mistaken.


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## 2boyzmom (Jun 2, 2014)

Does anyone know if the tamarcks buildings are 2 or 3 floors?


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