# Recommendations needed - London- college students- March



## ownsmany (Dec 27, 2017)

I have never been to London & my 20 year old daughter & her friend want to go in March. 
What is a good area for them to stay?  Any timeshares we should be looking at?  Not sure what age requirements hotels & timeshares have in Europe.  Great kids.  Must sees?  I’m not fond of the idea of them going to London but they have their hearts set on going.  Any hotels/ timeshares  you would recommend?  What are good areas to stay?
Any advise would be appreciated.


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## Luanne (Dec 27, 2017)

No recommendations on places to stay (I've only been there once) but I wouldn't worry about your 20 year old daughter being there. When she was in high school my younger daughter spent a Spring break in the UK.  She was staying in Kent with a close family friend, but she took the train by herself daily (the friend was working) and went all over London.  She also went to Paris, with the friend, then from there dd went by herself to Switzerland, spent some time with friends from home who were living there, then took the train, again by herself from Switzerland back to Kent. She had to change trains, and train stations, in Paris and did so without speaking the language.  Our kids are usually more capable then we'd like to give them credit for.  What is it about being in London that you're not fond of?


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## ownsmany (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks Luanne.  I’m afraid of terrorist activity.  London seems to have a greater amount than others.


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## Luanne (Dec 27, 2017)

ownsmany said:


> Thanks Luanne.  I’m afraid of terrorist activity.  London seems to have a greater amount than others.


My daughter was there before all of the terrorist activities.  We have friends who live in London.  I haven't heard them mention any concerns.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 27, 2017)

I used to host exchange students from France for 3+ weeks for about 6 summers. These 15-17yo young adults were very capable of solo travel thru out Europe for one or more summers before the USA trip. 

Have these 2 friends lived away from home for college? Booked airline trips for themselves? Traveled alone on US trains? Ever choose motel rooms and checkin & stayed by themselves in various cities/states in the US? 

When I was 18yo, my parents left me at college 1000 miles from home. No cell phones or ANY phone calling ... just a letter every couple of weeks. My dad's parting words were "Have a good life. Bye." The first oil embargo happen .. so several of us Yankees colege kids decided to TRY taking the train to the Philadelphia area. Greyhound buses would have taken days.. the trains either 24 or 27 hours with no changes (2 routes). Got my brother to pick me up at the train station and in I walked into my parent's kitchen .. the response from my mother was "oh, you're back."

What I am asking is, *Are these 2 young ladies independent for weeks at a time? No texting/calling HOME for info, handling ALL things TOTALLY by themselves*. Google might be their friend .. but making the right & SAFE decision is something your daughter should have a handle on by now. If she is too trusting or naive or clueless about the world/people around her .. get her & her friend signed up for a guide tour for college kids.

PS I also WORKED and lived away from home in a residential Girl Scout summer camp for 7 weeks each summer after my Sophmore and Junior High School years. No rides home from my parents; had no car as I was too young to drive; 7 weeks living in a tent with another girl or two in the woods. Was still better than home ... plus I played the bugle by getting the camp up or put them to bed ...


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## richontug (Dec 27, 2017)

Friends have used VRBO for London  - few TS offerings


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## Luanne (Dec 27, 2017)

The same daughter who was in the UK during high school spent 7 weeks in Europe, on her own, after she graduated from college.  She used hostels and trains.  Your daughter and her friend might want to look into hostels.  My daughter found the ones in Europe to be quite nice.  I think she booked through hostel world.  Here is a link to hostels in London.  She'd research the area, look at the reviews for the hostels, etc.

https://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/London


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## ownsmany (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks all.  Yes - they both live away at different colleges & have been best friends since preK.
They take trains, etc & are independent. A little naive & too trusting though.   Apprecite all the feedback.


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## lorenmd (Dec 30, 2017)

they should stay in a hostel.  they will meet other kids their age and have lots of things to do in groups.  my daughter just came back from london from her study abroad.  after she was done she went traveling in europe and ended with another 3 days in london and stayed in the hostel and she always says it is way more fun. she is 21. they have to bring their own lock and bring shower slippers.  get a SIM card when they get there so they can use the maps and directions and phone calls.  they can facetime or whats ap you in the states.  at the airport they can get EE for about $20 which will give them plenty of data. they'll have a great time but always know your exit strategy and be aware of your surroundings, don't have your face in your phone all the time.  my daughter saw 10 musicals while she was there including hamilton on her last night.  way cheaper there and you can just get tickets day off.  don't have them get air b and b or vrbo, they will have way more fun at the hostels.


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## Talent312 (Jan 2, 2018)

Check out https://londonconnection.com/ for vacation apartment rentals. 
We rented a 2BR flat in the Kensington area. They transported us from Gatwick.
It was near the Victoria+Albert Museum & Royal Albert Hall (Eric Clapton concert).
Hyde Park & Harrods were in walking distance.
.


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## Jimster (Jan 3, 2018)

First of all I’d look at the sticky about free things to do in London.  Second, the chances of getting a timeshare are really low.  There are only a few of them and they are in very high demand.  A hostel is a good idea but check out the reviews.  Hotels (that I’d actually stay in) are not cheap.  I would go to flyertalk.com and click the destinations tab and scroll down until you find England/London.  You will find much more advise there than you will get here.  I have been there many times and i can tell you there are lots of interesting things to see and do.  I would caution young girls to be careful with whom they associate.


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## Zinjanthropus (Jan 4, 2018)

My wife and I lived in London in 1988. We had student work visas and traveled throughout Europe. We've been back dozens of times over the years. London is a great place to be as a student. As mentioned above, there are plenty of things to do and the amount of young students and travelers make this a great place for young people to congregate, meet other travelers, get tips and warnings and get that international feel. We considered international travel a must for our children, so when they were college age, they traveled throughout Europe and South America. Even though we explored most of Europe and parts of Scandinavia, London was always home base because it's a mental break having everything in English!

 I see you're from Penn. If your girls are knowledgeable and comfortable getting around in Philly or Pitt, or big cities in general, then London shouldn't be any different than the rules they employ here at home. Basic street smarts/people skills are universal. 
Simple things like knowing how to deal with the homeless, different races of people, cops, impatient shop owners, nasty drivers, heavy traffic, Public transportation, scam artists, pickpockets...you know, common city things... these are important skills. London and most cities in Europe are much easier/friendly places than the average large US city. Even in Paris.. if you're used to city life, you will love Paris and her people. I've found that those of my friends who didn't like Paris were those who don't know much about city life.
Crime in London is much lower than in Philly or Pittsburgh...unless you're on a train after a "football match" with the drunken hordes and you're wearing the wrong soccer team jersey.

*The food* isn't as horrid as it used to be. It seems like they've upped their food game tremendously. I've actually had a few decent meals in London recently. I think with all the globalization, some of the bigger/better chain restaurants may have forced these places to improve their dishes. maybe a few French restaurants, US and Asian restaurants have opened enough branches to create quality competition. The downside, is now there's a Mickey D's or BK on every high street. 

*Blend- in* Also, what we've found is that if you're white, then the less American you look, the better. Thus you avoid any animosity you may get from people assuming you're part of the loud/rude/ugly American tourist crowd. Or the drunkards and guys looking for casual hookups like to choose American women as a sort of "hook up prize". 

 It's the exact opposite if you're Black. Then, you WANT to look like a Black American. That way, they won't assume you're one of their minorities and treat you differently. These are general in nature but my son found them to still be true in 2016. They love black Americans because of the many celebrities but have the usual disdain for the black immigrants.

If they like *theater*, then the west end is the best place for musicals etc, and often rivals or eclipses Broadway for great musical numbers. Tell them to use their student IDs and here's a good trick, if they're flexible, is to walk up to a theater 5 mins before curtains and ask for seats. Usually for very popular musicals, they hold back some choice seats just in case some celebrity pops up. I've got some decent yet discounted primo seats like that.

*Nightclubs*...avoid the gigantic mega clubs on Leicester square, they're expensive and touristy.Unless that's what they want to se. Because also, they're huge and very tech heavy with the coolest/latest in lazer lights and sounds. *TIME OUT* is still a great weekly periodical to see what's popping in the club life. Often world class DJs have sets in some very cool exclusive places. Tell them to dress to kill and deploy their American accents so they will have a better chance of getting let in by the finicky door people.

*Hostels* are a good place in th UK. My two favorites in London were the International Student's house near Regents park and also in the same area is Regent's college which has dorms for rent in the summer. Actually most college dorms in London would love to rent you a dorm room with breakfast for decent price.
Hope and of this helps and I hope they have a great time!!


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## Pompey Family (Jan 8, 2018)

Zinjanthropus said:


> *Blend- in* Also, what we've found is that if you're white, then the less American you look, the better. Thus you avoid any animosity you may get from people assuming you're part of the loud/rude/ugly American tourist crowd. Or the drunkards and guys looking for casual hookups like to choose American women as a sort of "hook up prize".
> 
> It's the exact opposite if you're Black. Then, you WANT to look like a Black American. That way, they won't assume you're one of their minorities and treat you differently. These are general in nature but my son found them to still be true in 2016. They love black Americans because of the many celebrities but have the usual disdain for the black immigrants.



This is the most absurd "observation" I've ever read and is completely inaccurate. In London you're unlikely to generate any interest from most people as an American, either positive or negative. Outside of London you're more likely to generate interest and on almost all occasions it will be a positive reaction irrespective of what you look like, how you dress etc.

The British do not love black Americans because of the celebrity status, the British are ambivalent about whether you're black American, black British or black any one else, it doesn't matter. There are people who hold racist views and there are people who don't, the nationality has no bearing.

As for the "American hook up prize", again, it has nothing to with nationality. Those guys looking for a casual date are typically looking for anyone willing, their nationality doesn't come into it. 

Quite possibly the most sweeping, incorrect generalisation I've ever read!


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## Zinjanthropus (Jan 8, 2018)

Pompey Family said:


> This is the most absurd "observation" I've ever read and is completely inaccurate. In London you're unlikely to generate any interest from most people as an American, either positive or negative. Outside of London you're more likely to generate interest and on almost all occasions it will be a positive reaction irrespective of what you look like, how you dress etc.
> 
> The British do not love black Americans because of the celebrity status, the British are ambivalent about whether you're black American, black British or black any one else, it doesn't matter. There are people who hold racist views and there are people who don't, the nationality has no bearing.
> 
> ...



It's my observation and that of several of my friends both American and European, both black and white. Working in London, I've seen Africans and Jamaicans in London treated much differently in the workplace than I was treated. The same for Haitians in Paris, and in many other areas of Europe, especially Berlin. We spoke about it, written about it and noticed it first hand....Definitely not US military men lol.
 It's perfectly reasonable for you to have a different experience. Maybe it's because I worked in the entertainment industry when we noticed it, but this is most certainly something talked about on blogs, in "working abroad"  and travel articles and amongst blacks who travel. Maybe they treated the same as they did the immigrants from other countries, I can't speak for your experience, but it is most definitely ours.

-EDIT- I probably over spoke the (they Love Black Americans). That's mostly exclusive to the music industry.


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## Pompey Family (Jan 8, 2018)

Zinjanthropus said:


> It's my observation and that of several of my friends both American and European, both black and white. Working in London, I've seen Africans and Jamaicans in London treated much differently in the workplace than I was treated. The same for Haitians in Paris, and in many other areas of Europe, especially Berlin. We spoke about it, written about it and noticed it first hand....Definitely not US military men lol.
> It's perfectly reasonable for you to have a different experience. Maybe it's because I worked in the entertainment industry when we noticed it, but this is most certainly something talked about on blogs, in "working abroad"  and travel articles and amongst blacks who travel. Maybe they treated the same as they did the immigrants from other countries, I can't speak for your experience, but it is most definitely ours.
> 
> -EDIT- I probably over spoke the (they Love Black Americans). That's mostly exclusive to the music industry.



I'll have to say that the entertainment industry is not a good barometer for measuring attitudes in other industries or for the areas outside of London. My overall experience having travelled all over the UK is that outside of London and the other major sites that attract a lot of Americans is that American tourists are often treated as a novelty and there is a genuine interest from the locals, this is the same irrespective of colour. The black people that I've worked with have been treated no differently than their white colleagues but as I work in law enforcement that might be the reason why. My wife works in the financial industry and her experiences echo mine.

I have found from reading other travel sites that the issue of racism or perceived racism is regularly brought up in questions from black people intending to visit various countries within Europe, quite often questions are asked such as "as a black person am I likely to encounter racism in *****, or is it safe to visit ***** as a black person". This often strikes me as an odd thought process and suggests that the person has already decided that there is the prospect of prejudice and therefore the seed has already been sown in their mind. I wonder if this tends to result in confirmation bias rather than the often innocent reality.


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## Zinjanthropus (Jan 8, 2018)

Pompey Family said:


> I have found from reading other travel sites that the issue of racism or perceived racism is regularly brought up in questions from black people intending to visit various countries within Europe, quite often questions are asked such as "as a black person am I likely to encounter racism in *****, or is it safe to visit ***** as a black person". This often strikes me as an odd thought process and suggests that the person has already decided that there is the prospect of prejudice and therefore the seed has already been sown in their mind. I wonder if this tends to result in confirmation bias rather than the often innocent reality.



 I guess if you've never lived as a woman, Black person, Arab or Indian guy, then these questions would seem strange.
Things get "sown into people's mind" because often the tree has already bore fruit via personal experiences and that of their relatives and friends. I would have to be a deep level cretin to just make things up. It's strange to realize that it is easier to assume that I'm an idiot than to believe me....because everyone's experiences should be exactly like yours?

Either that or all of these people posing these questions in the blogs and travel guides are paranoid idiots. It would be rather wild to imagine that people all over the world experience the same paranoia. Most of the time, the racial climate isn't that bad, but sometimes it is.

That's why people ask.

 The atmosphere in Spain right now-except Barcelona- for me and many others was that you receive much more hostility than in Switzerland or France. In the 90s I received hostility in Paris, that is until they heard my voice. This is the same and most obvious in Brazil, where they outwardly swear and scream at you for approaching their restaurants until they take a closer look or hear your voice. Try going into a bank in Brazil. American Football jerseys and baseball caps help. But then again I really don't want to patronize places whose owners automatically dislike me before becoming aware of where I'm from.

But often people ask if NYC, Detroit or Chicago is too dangerous to travel to. These questions seem crazy to me but I can't blame a person for wanting to know what type of atmosphere they're liable to encounter

  On the flip side, I can't imagine an Arabic man who would be daft enough to NOT ask such a question. Especially when visiting parts of the US, the UK and Europe.
My work was as a recording engineer/producer. But often, I was just a traveler. I could tell you horror stories encountering different forms of racism, like the time two members of my band were jumped on outside of a club we were playing. The attacker's reasons were because they hated Wogs...a term which I had never heard until then. This was their stated reason and we had no reason to doubt them.


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## Pompey Family (Jan 8, 2018)

Zinjanthropus said:


> I guess if you've never lived as a woman, Black person, Arab or Indian guy, then these questions would seem strange.



You've made the assumption that I'm male, presumably without looking through any of my previous posts that would allude to this fact and also that I'm white. That speaks volumes.

As a white man I've experienced racism in Atlanta, Cincinnati and New Jersey but I've never presumed that I would automatically experience such attitudes whenever I intended to travel to a predominantly black area. I've also experienced hostility as an Englishman in Dublin, Tallin and Krakow so experiencing racism and prejudice is not confined to non whites, we are all susceptible to it and my post was not intended to suggest that it's a figment of anyone's imagination. I have no doubt that your friends were attacked and called wogs, unfortunately there's an element in every society that hold such prejudices. My point being that people shouldn't judge the many by the actions of a few.


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## Zinjanthropus (Jan 8, 2018)

Pompey Family said:


> You've made the assumption that I'm male, presumably without looking through any of my previous posts that would allude to this fact and also that I'm white. That speaks volumes.
> 
> As a white man I've experienced racism in Atlanta, Cincinnati and New Jersey but I've never presumed that I would automatically experience such attitudes whenever I intended to travel to a predominantly black area. I've also experienced hostility as an Englishman in Dublin, Tallin and Krakow so experiencing racism and prejudice is not confined to non whites, we are all susceptible to it and my post was not intended to suggest that it's a figment of anyone's imagination. I have no doubt that your friends were attacked and called wogs, unfortunately there's an element in every society that hold such prejudices. My point being that people shouldn't judge the many by the actions of a few.



I made sure to make assumptions in different ways, because I don't know you.. In one post I said "maybe they treated you the same as they did the immigrants", which assumes that you're black and are speaking from experience.

People ask whether it's safe to travel places all the time. The best you can expect is to answer based on your experience. And the situation is different based on where you go and what you do. I wouldn't allow my daughter to travel alone through rural Spain last year for the reason that times change and there's a bit of anti-immigrant furor going on there even though my wife and I traveled throughout Spain when we were in our 20s with no problems. 

The article about Magic Johnson and Samuel Jackson in Tuscany being mistaken for lazy immigrants wasting their welfare money on expensive items comes to mind.

I never said that only blacks experience race based problems. 
Where did I say that?
I never even alluded to it.
Go back, re-read my post; I mentioned problems for both White and Black Americans and how to deal with them. 
You focused on the black portion.

I know for a fact that my white friends consider Parisians to be rude and standoffish based on their experiences, and I've seen them being treated rudely based on their American-ness. But I also know that Parisians treated me like a brother. There's a gigantic black American expat history in Paris that stretches back through Richard Wright, James Baldwin, Bud Powell, Jessye Norman, and Josephine Baker.

I gave my honest opinion based on my experiences during years of travel as me.
You are you and may feel differently. Speak from your experiences and I'll speak from mine. I won't try to devalue your experience by reducing it to confirmation bias. 

...aaand this is where I stop for fear of further thread jacking.


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## Pompey Family (Jan 8, 2018)

Zinjanthropus said:


> ...aaand this is where I stop for fear of further thread jacking.



Likewise and I wish you the best on your future travels.


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