# DVC property taxes to rise?



## DVC Mike (Jun 14, 2017)

Will the Orange County Appraiser back down and settle as his predecessors have done in their battles with Disney over the assessed value of Walt Disney World Resorts? Or could this actually head to court and result in an increase in our DVC annual dues?

*Are DVC Annual Dues going to rise dramatically?*


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## asreiter (Jun 14, 2017)

There's a good article here
https://dvcinfo.com/dvc-annual-dues-going-rise-dramatically/

This new county appraiser may not be as easily bullied


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## asreiter (Jun 14, 2017)

I actually just realized you are dvc info.......LOL


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## rhonda (Jun 14, 2017)

the article linked above said:
			
		

> “It’s a matter of being fair and equitable,” Singh said. “If the single mother who is working two jobs has to be held accountable to pay her fair share, so should everybody else.”


I wonder if Singh realizes it is every-day-mom-and-pop, even the single mother with two jobs, who will be hit with his proposed rate hike?  Disney has done a great job of passing the costs right down to the consumer.  The DVC owners, as individuals, pay the ad valorem property taxes!


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## VacationForever (Jun 14, 2017)

rhonda said:


> I wonder if Singh realizes it is every-day-mom-and-pop, even the single mother with two jobs, who will be hit with his proposed rate hike?  Disney has done a great job of passing the costs right down to the consumer.  The DVC owners, as individuals, pay the ad valorem property taxes!



Ah, but the counter argument is that if you can afford to vacation, you can afford fair market property tax.  If Disney can pass the costs down to the consumers, then why not for the assessor's office?

I am not for it but I can see the other side of the argument.


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## rhonda (Jun 14, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Ah, but the counter argument is that if you can afford to vacation, you can afford fair market property tax.  If Disney can pass the costs fown to the consumers, then why not for the assessor's office?
> 
> I am not for it but I can see the other side of the argument.


I'm rather certain my point of view comes from being in San Diego under Prop 13.  To me, property taxes should be locked to your original purchase price rather than arbitrarily set, yearly, based on current values.  Otherwise one could get priced out of something they've held for years ... ?


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 14, 2017)

rhonda said:


> I'm rather certain my point of view comes from being in San Diego under Prop 13.  To me, property taxes should be locked to your original purchase price rather than arbitrarily set, yearly, based on current values.  *Otherwise one could get priced out of something they've held for years ... *?



That is what happens in the real WORLD ... and WHY CC got elected governor in New Jersey.


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## rhonda (Jun 14, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> That is what happens in the real WORLD ... and WHY CC got elected governor in New Jersey.


Heh, heh.  Are you suggesting SoCal is not the real world?  ;-P


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## VacationForever (Jun 14, 2017)

rhonda said:


> Heh, heh.  Are you suggesting SoCal is not the real world?  ;-P


California is not the real world...but I am going to be thrown out of this forum because I am going to sound political...and yes we left California and are no longer CA residents.  Plain and simple - California is bankrupt and the countdown begins as to when the collapse actually happens.


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## littlestar (Jun 14, 2017)

Interesting, Mike.  It might price some out of DVC. Those dues on Copper Creek scared me away from an add on. Glad I only bought an EOY resale week at Marriott Grande Vista recently -  I bet Mr. Singh will not consider my $1,000 resale price in his assessment. I wonder if other resorts in Orlando are worried.


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## Cyberc (Jun 15, 2017)

One positive side effect, if you can call it as such, is that if the taxes keeps increasing then besides from the increased dues also the ticket prices, rental prices both cash and points rental will also increase, this could lead to lower crowds in the parks and thus shorter ques for the attractions.

I think it would be awful if people are being priced out of Disney but if the taxes increases and Disney is being unwilling to accept lower profits I dont see how it can be any other way.  Personally I could live with not going to the parks each time I stayed at a DVC resort, I would prefer to go, but I could live with not going.

Remember that Disney will be impacted twice by the increase in taxes. The first hit is the taxes on the theme parks the second hit is their 2% minimum ownership at each resort.


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## Lisa P (Jun 15, 2017)

Cyberc said:


> I think it would be awful if people are being priced out of Disney...


It seems to me that there are many, many people to have been priced out of Disney for a loooong time already.  We've known a number of people, besides ourselves, who sold their DVC points because of the high cost of annual dues and/or increasing park admission fees.  Whether it's from Disney's corporate profits or increase in taxes, being "priced out of Disney" is nothing new to a lot of folks, IMO.


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## Cyberc (Jun 16, 2017)

Lisa P said:


> It seems to me that there are many, many people to have been priced out of Disney for a loooong time already.  We've known a number of people, besides ourselves, who sold their DVC points because of the high cost of annual dues and/or increasing park admission fees.  Whether it's from Disney's corporate profits or increase in taxes, being "priced out of Disney" is nothing new to a lot of folks, IMO.



IMO thats a matter of the size of your wallet and ofc how you choose to spend it. 

When you buy DVC you know that the annual dues only knows one direction - UP. With that being said, sometime the increase in dues goes faster than expected.


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## vacationhopeful (Jun 16, 2017)

I own a small DVC points ownership ... 90 points @ AKV. I use or rent them every 2 or 3 years. This works for me ... as I basicly only use the points for special trips. And I want to stay at AKV ... where else can you watch the critters 24 hours a day/7 days a week?

And if you feel Disney is too expensive to buy initially or own long term, I am glad you decided to NOT buy this timeshare product. It is a luxury item for sure ... use the money to add funds your retirement portfolio or college expenses for your kids.

PS When Disney joined RCI, it was easy to get an exchange .. which I did at least 3 or 4 times. And I brought my points right before DVC devalued the usage of resale points.


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## Jason245 (Jun 16, 2017)

rhonda said:


> I'm rather certain my point of view comes from being in San Diego under Prop 13.  To me, property taxes should be locked to your original purchase price rather than arbitrarily set, yearly, based on current values.  Otherwise one could get priced out of something they've held for years ... ?


We have that in florida. . Only it is applicable to primary residence  . Not second home or business or rental property. .

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## Jason245 (Jun 16, 2017)

Just because your property value is assessed higher doesn't necessarily mean you have to pay more taxes. . The appraiser in florida only controls your property assessed value.. Tax rates are set by city and county. .

It frustrates me to no end when my local politicians here say "we kept the rate the same" when their taxable base went up 5 to 10 percent  (same rate gave them 5 to 10 percent more tax dollars this year than last).  It is a giant shell game and they somehow manage to always spend the extra money...

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## buckor (Jun 16, 2017)

Another item I take issue with from the article is the value of the income from the property in determining what the property taxes should be. That already happens.....it's called income taxes. Property taxes are supposed to be (should be) based on the value of the property and improvements, not the income. Yes, I do realize there is a scale because the Magic Kingdom does have more value, due to its business economics and design, than would a Six Flags built next door. However, those property taxes should be based on what someone would reasonably pay for a property, not the inherent business value of the income from that property. 

Just my $.02.

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## rhonda (Jun 16, 2017)

Jason245 said:


> We have that in florida. . Only it is applicable to primary residence  . Not second home or business or rental property.


Interesting.  Our rates in CA apply to multiple personal holdings (primary/2nd home, etc) and, I think, also include our CA timeshares.  (I'm thinking this is one reason DVC's Grand Cal dues have remained relatively low/stable across its years?)  However, portability is restricted w/in the same county or between select reciprocal counties.  

Agreed, there are lots of little nooks and crannies to the tax rules ... I hear you on the 'shell game' verbiage.  Sigh.


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## DVC Mike (Jun 17, 2017)

buckor said:


> Another item I take issue with from the article is the value of the income from the property in determining what the property taxes should be. That already happens.....it's called income taxes. Property taxes are supposed to be (should be) based on the value of the property and improvements, not the income. Yes, I do realize there is a scale because the Magic Kingdom does have more value, due to its business economics and design, than would a Six Flags built next door. However, those property taxes should be based on what someone would reasonably pay for a property, not the inherent business value of the income from that property.
> 
> Just my $.02.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk



Several people on our DVCinfo discussion forum and our DVCinfo Facebook page have suggested that Singh’s method of using income when appraising the resorts is wrong. However, the income capitalization approach is a preferred approach in valuation of hotels for property tax purposes (ref: https://www.hvs.com/Content/971.pdf). Disney’s argument seems to be that Singh incorrectly “included the value of certain intangible property in the assessments”. Several recent appeals of hotel appraisals are taking this approach. The assessor is required to identify, value and exclude the value of any intangible assets from the calculation. They are appealing the assessor’s methodology saying he didn’t remove all intangible assets and rights.


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## lrazor (Jun 17, 2017)

Does anyone have any clue as to what the delta is?  if it's 40% increase and taxes are x% of dues, then we could project rough impact number.


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## rfc0001 (Jun 17, 2017)

lrazor said:


> Does anyone have any clue as to what the delta is?  if it's 40% increase and taxes are x% of dues, then we could project rough impact number.


@DVC Mike has posted a breakdown of all the resort budgets here:
https://dvcinfo.com/financial/dvc-resort-budgets/

For example, SSR:





So, $1.27 of the $5.60 MF is taxes, so if it went up 40%, it would be be a $0.50 increase.


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## lrazor (Jun 17, 2017)

Thank you!


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