# Marriott Grand Residence purchase earlier this year



## SnowDogDad (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi everyone,
  Earlier in the year, I was considering purchasing a 1/4 fractional at the Marriott Grand Residence in South Lake Tahoe.  After staying at the property a few times, I thought it would be a good purchase (not "investment", though).  

I got some very good advice from a number of regulars here at TUG and I really appreciated both the public and private advice.  Thanks to everyone that contribute here!   

  I went ahead and made the purchase. Based on my research both then and follow up research now, I got a very good deal.  There are quite a few units on the market right now and almost a year later the price I paid still holds well.  There are still some really good deals up there, though. 

  I have learned a few things that I wanted to share for anyone considering purchasing a fractional at a place like the Marriott GRC.  

   First, the HOA fees *are* high and El Dorado County *increased* the property taxes this year over what I was expecting to pay.  I *did* know the HOA fees ahead of time, though.  

  Second, get the quarterly or annual reports from the board of directors or owner oversight board.  Contact a few of the vocal members and ask them what they think of your purchase.  There is a consensus amoung the owners I have talked to at the MGRC that Marriott needs to get the HOA fees under control. 

  Next, if you are not planning on occupying your unit during most of the times that you own it, find someone other than Marriott to handle the rentals. For my 3bedroom/4bath, I did not occupy during the July 4th week.  My rental income from Marriott for that entire week was under $400.   I pulled my unit of of their program immediately after that week and put it under another manager.  My income the following week that I owned was just over $1,800.   If you plan on trying to recoup any of the HOA fees via rentals, Marriott is a bad way to go. 

  Next, if you are planning to trying to use the HOA fees as a tax write-off, talk to your accountant/tax professional first.  There are restrictions on how you can use the property yourself if you write off anything.  I'm happy with my arrangement with the property, but I went in to the purchase knowing what the rules were. 

  Next, there is no guarantee that the Heavenly Village is going to be continually developed. The "convention center" across the street is still a big hole and may never get developed. While that would be a potential boom to the area, any convention center development is "iffy" even in a good economy. 

   Next, buy the size of the unit that you need, not what you hope you might need.  We bought a bigger unit than we really needed.  The bigger units make attractive rentals for families, but if I were occupying it more than renting it the extra space would frequently be ununsed. 

  Next, fractional ownership is not for everyone.  It works well for people like me that want the option of visiting during different times of the year.  Traditional timeshares work better for people that have more fixed vacation schedules. 

  Anyway, those are some things that I have learned this past year and wanted to share with anyone else considering such a purchase.


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## Robert D (Nov 5, 2010)

SnowDog, I think this is great advice and really appreciate you sharing what you've learned with everyone.  We own 5 summer weeks (one is an EOY) at Timber Lodge next door that we bought relatively cheap over the past few years, and we looked at Grand Residence a couple times and determined that it wouldn't work for us.  Since we live in Texas, we wanted to spend a month at Tahoe from mid July to mid August when it's so hot down here.  Grand Residence has a 5 week summer package but basically you get one week per month from May to September and this had no appeal to us at all, especially since we wanted to make one trip up there, not 5.  The maintenace fees at Timber Lodge aren't cheap but they're probably no more than GR for comparable size units.

Regarding the ugly hole in the ground across the street, it will get completed some day but who knows when.  In reading about the history of South Tahoe, apparently there were a lot of projects over the years that went under, stayed dormant for years, then finally got completed.  I suspect it will be years or even a decade before this one gets completed.  That said, I don't think it's a big problem.  From what I understand, the stuff that was there before the hole was dug wasn't exactly the Tashmahal!


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## SueDonJ (Nov 5, 2010)

SnowDogDad, thanks for the interesting post.  Both Grand Residence properties look amazing but we're sadly not in the market for them.  It used to be that there was a slim chance to exchange into them with II but that seems to be gone.

You don't mention anything about being able to convert your Weeks to the new Destination Club points, and this morning when looking at something for another TUG thread I realized that the GR properties are not included in the DC Points Charts.  Can you confirm that there is no possibility for DC exchanges into or out of GR London or GR Lake Tahoe?  Thanks.


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## SnowDogDad (Nov 5, 2010)

*Happy to share!*

@Robert:  Yes, any place that offers "fractional" ownership like the MGRC is not going to be good if you want to stay multiple weeks.  Some owners have purchased multiple weeks but that a bit out of my price range.  I did meet one fellow that owns all 4 of the quarters for his unit.  He lives there in the winter and someplace else in the summer.  Must be nice.     Yes, also, I hope that the hole will eventually be built in to something nicer that matches the surrounding development efforts. 

@Sue: If you participate in the Marriott rental program, you can donate 2 of your weeks (usually high season weeks) and then get Marriott Reward points.  But the number of number points they give you are not really equivalent to cashing in the points at at a similar resort someplace else.  The owners at MGRC can participate in II (I have not done that yet).  Usually the requirement also is that you donate to II a week during high season (mid-winter or mid-summer).  Thus far, for me at least, I'd prefer to rent the condo if I was not going to occupy.


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## fleming4 (Nov 6, 2010)

MGRC is not part of the DC. The MGRC HOA has asked MVCI to allow participation, but it has not yet happened. 

SnowDog's points are good. Fractional ownership is certainly not for everyone. There are pros and cons vis-a-vis traditional timesharing and MGRC ownership is different than owning at Timber Lodge. I like not having to hassle to reserve weeks a year in advance, and I like having the same unit each time we stay.

Each year, when we get our tax assessment from El Dorado county, we appeal it and they have reduced it each year for the past few years, which is appropriate.

The location where MGRC is located was a hole in the ground for a long time before it was built. American Ski Corporation was slated to build a hotel there, but ran into financial trouble in the 1990s and just ceased everyhing for several years. Marriott came in, took over the project, and built the property.  It is inevitable that the hole across the street will eventually get built out. Having the hole there now does not detract from the beauty of the place, and I personally prefer less crowding anyway.


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## alvin (May 14, 2011)

SnowDogDad said:


> There is a consensus amoung the owners I have talked to at the MGRC that Marriott needs to get the HOA fees under control.





fleming4 said:


> American Ski Corporation was slated to build a hotel there, but ran into financial trouble in the 1990s and just ceased everyhing for several years. Marriott came in, took over the project, and built the property



The now defunct American Ski Corp did develop two other similar properties back in the early 2000s, The Grand Summit in Park City and the Steamboat Grand in Colorado.  All of them are quarter share condo hotels, and to the best of my knowledge, all three have almost identical floor plans, amenities and reservation policies.  And while they are now all separately managed, I find it interesting that MGRC's HOA fees are more than double the Grand Summit or Steamboat Grand's annual dues.  Any idea why?  Now that all shares have been sold, can't the HOA at MGRC threaten to change management companies?


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## Robert D (May 15, 2011)

alvin said:


> The now defunct American Ski Corp did develop two other similar properties back in the early 2000s, The Grand Summit in Park City and the Steamboat Grand in Colorado.  All of them are quarter share condo hotels, and to the best of my knowledge, all three have almost identical floor plans, amenities and reservation policies.  And while they are now all separately managed, I find it interesting that MGRC's HOA fees are more than double the Grand Summit or Steamboat Grand's annual dues.  Any idea why?  Now that all shares have been sold, can't the HOA at MGRC threaten to change management companies?



My guess is that Marriott still controls the board and puts people on there that will be friendly to them.  Marriott's first objective is to their own bottom line, not to the owners of the fractional shares.


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## OldPantry (May 16, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> SnowDogDad, thanks for the interesting post.  Both Grand Residence properties look amazing but we're sadly not in the market for them.  It used to be that there was a slim chance to exchange into them with II but that seems to be gone.
> 
> You don't mention anything about being able to convert your Weeks to the new Destination Club points, and this morning when looking at something for another TUG thread I realized that the GR properties are not included in the DC Points Charts.  Can you confirm that there is no possibility for DC exchanges into or out of GR London or GR Lake Tahoe?  Thanks.



Sue,

I just saw some Grand Residence Tahoe studios and 1BRs available for exchange in II.  They're in April-July 2012 time frame.  My Ko Olina studio would nab one, if I wanted to use it in Tahoe.  Which I don't.


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## dioxide45 (May 16, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> I realized that the GR properties are not included in the DC Points Charts.  Can you confirm that there is no possibility for DC exchanges into or out of GR London or GR Lake Tahoe?  Thanks.



Perhaps the Grande Residence properties (at least Tahoe) will be included in the DC points chart in the near future? Check out the Recorded Trust Documents thread.


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## SueDonJ (May 16, 2011)

OldPantry said:


> Sue,
> 
> I just saw some Grand Residence Tahoe studios and 1BRs available for exchange in II.  They're in April-July 2012 time frame.  My Ko Olina studio would nab one, if I wanted to use it in Tahoe.  Which I don't.



Good to know, thanks.  Last year I contacted the GM at Grand Residence London and he confirmed that owners there pretty much never deposit to II because their weeks are worth so much more on the rental market.  After that I figured the same was true of GR Tahoe, but now I'll keep it in the back of my mind as a possibility if we plan to visit out there.


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## SueDonJ (May 16, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps the Grande Residence properties (at least Tahoe) will be included in the DC points chart in the near future? Check out the Recorded Trust Documents thread.



Just came from there - nice!


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## gblotter (May 17, 2011)

alvin said:


> The now defunct American Ski Corp did develop two other similar properties back in the early 2000s, The Grand Summit in Park City and the Steamboat Grand in Colorado.  All of them are quarter share condo hotels, and to the best of my knowledge, all three have almost identical floor plans, amenities and reservation policies.  And while they are now all separately managed, I find it interesting that MGRC's HOA fees are more than double the Grand Summit or Steamboat Grand's annual dues.  Any idea why?  Now that all shares have been sold, can't the HOA at MGRC threaten to change management companies?


You may get what you pay for.  The reviews on the Grand Summit are not so great (especially the service/staff component).


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## alvin (May 18, 2011)

gblotter said:


> You may get what you pay for.  The reviews on the Grand Summit are not so great (especially the service/staff component).



I'm not so sure that's the case though.  Is that owner reviews or guest reviews?  All three properties are rated 4 star by AAA.  TripAdvisor does indeed favor MGRC by a hair over Steamboat, and by half a star over the Grand Summit.  But GS and MGRC are rated an equal  4.6 (out of 5) on Expedia, which one could argue is a bit more useful too, since unlike TripAdvisor with its many bogus reviews, only recent visits from verified guests are counted in Expedia's rating.


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