# CAPE COD HOLIDAY ESTATES - Special Assessment



## Corky (Nov 10, 2009)

Just received the bombshell news about CCHE's Special Assessment.  Wonder how owners feel about this and how they plan to pay.

Because of the economic climate, the assessment was put off last year. It seems extraordinarily high or am I wrong?

Thoughts?


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## g4fishing (Nov 11, 2009)

How much is it?


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## Corky (Nov 11, 2009)

Lump sum of $1900 per interval plus annual MF.

Or, pay in 5 annual installments totalling $2100 plus annual MF.


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## g4fishing (Nov 11, 2009)

Wow, that's over the top.


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## Corky (Nov 11, 2009)

That's exactly how I feel.  I'm shocked that more owners aren't reacting.


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## wackymother (Nov 11, 2009)

Ouch! Sorry to hear about this.


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## Corky (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm afraid this assessment will cause previously faithful owners to bail which, in turn, will result in more delinquent fees for the resort.  These are tough times for timeshares that haven't kept maintenance up to date with a reserve fund.


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## pcgirl54 (Nov 12, 2009)

Wow is right. That's terrible to have postponed something that could have been 3 yrs of minor charges and now impact people with a jumbo hit.

 Stopped by last summer to see a refurbed home. I was also surprised they do not have internet access with the exception of the clubhouse.


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## Corky (Nov 13, 2009)

Where are all the CCHE owners?????

Haven't received any reaction to this assessment.  Makes me wonder if any of them belong to TUG.


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## JACKJMP (Nov 26, 2009)

*Cche Sa Way To High*

Does anybody know what will happen if you walk away and how to do it?


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## JACKJMP (Nov 26, 2009)

*Cche can no longer exchange for rci points.*

Why can we no longer exchange our units for RCI points? That started about two years ago and now this SA of $2795.00. What is the BOD doing?


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## e.bram (Nov 26, 2009)

For $2795.00 you canbut a TS on the ocean, not miles away.


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## susette (Nov 26, 2009)

I am a a CCHE unit owner, and I am not going to pay this SA right now. I'm calling an attorney and the Better Business Bureau first. This Board has some explaining to do!

Sue


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## JACKJMP (Nov 28, 2009)

*Cape Cod Holiday Estates Sa And Points*

Why can we no longer exchange our units for RCI points? That started about two years ago and now this SA of $2795.00. What is the BOD doing?We have a 3BR unit that we used for points (was 77000 points) now a weeks exchange. To exchange a 3BR for just me and my wife does not work out very good for me and it works out very well for CCHE and RCI. In the weeks program i can not get anything good for a 3BR but I can with Points. thanks:rofl:


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## palmtree7339 (Nov 29, 2009)

*CCHE Special Assessment*

CCHE owners concerned re: the recent Special Assessment should advise the Resort's BOD members, by email, as to their opinions and comments involving the needed renovations of the 32 individual homes on the property.

The BOD members will meet on Thursday, Dec. 3rd, 10:00AM, at CCHE, in order to further discuss the Renovation Program, and to consider
modifications to the Special Assessment.

BOD meetings are open to all CCHE owners, although owners wishing to express opinions or comments to the Bd. may need to be recognized by the Bd. to do so.

Hope this helps all concerned CCHE owners.


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## Shiz (Nov 29, 2009)

Hopefully the board listens to all the owners, cancels the special assessment, and starts printing money at the resort to pay for it. 

Those houses are falling apart. The board has for years been too passive about fees, most likely because most of the members own 3-4 weeks themselves. You can see the result now. This special assessment shouldn't too much of a surprise seeing that it was openly discussed at the annual owners meeting in May, 2008. 

The point I'm making is that people expect dirt low maintenance fees but expect all the modern amenities. You can't have both. There is a reason why most timeshares are in condo-style units - the individual home setup is an absolute nightmare on maintenance and upkeep. (and from experience, those units take a beating!) 

CCHE is an absolute gem, but it has come to the point where it needs a comprehensive project like this. As the original owners start to move on, both literally and figuratively, there has to be a way to draw new blood to buying there. Otherwise your owner base will decrease, and then your fees will go up anyway. It's a problem almost all timeshares now are facing, not just Holiday Estates.

Just my 2c from afar. 

And FYI, BOD meetings are never open to the public unless previously arranged and agreed upon. Unless that meeting has specifically been arranged for owners to meet with the board, you'll be denied entry.


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## Shiz (Nov 29, 2009)

JACKJMP said:


> Why can we no longer exchange our units for RCI points? That started about two years ago and now this SA of $2795.00. What is the BOD doing?We have a 3BR unit that we used for points (was 77000 points) now a weeks exchange. To exchange a 3BR for just me and my wife does not work out very good for me and it works out very well for CCHE and RCI. In the weeks program i can not get anything good for a 3BR but I can with Points. thanks:rofl:



Might be worth checking with RCI on. I think that when RCI Points first came to CCHE, they would accept your fixed week if you already were a points member at another resort. They might have decided to force the conversion fee though. Wouldn't be surprising the way RCI operates.


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## timeos2 (Nov 29, 2009)

Shiz said:


> specifically been arranged for owners to meet with the board, you'll be denied entry.



What? Where are people coming up with this nonsense? Board meeting are open forums and every owner can attend - no "permission" needed. You may not get to speak unless they let you but you can sure watch.


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## Shiz (Nov 29, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> What? Where are people coming up with this nonsense? Board meeting are open forums and every owner can attend - no "permission" needed. You may not get to speak unless they let you but you can sure watch.



I posted this in another thread, but wanted to clarify as I've gotten some more info. 

As I stated before, it is in the best interests of both the owners and board to notify the office staff if you plan on observing the meeting this Thursday. This is most likely due to the fact where they actually meet isn't a large room and a large amount of owners attending might cause issues with space. 

That being said, another thing worth mentioning is that I was also told the S/A would have payment plans available, some extending up to *5 years*. That's almost unheard of.


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## e.bram (Nov 29, 2009)

Now is the time to cut bait. Use the SA and MF to buy an oceanfront TS and let CCHE go belly up. It probably will anyway if many of the dog weeks(most is seasonal Cape Cod) don't ante up.


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## Shiz (Nov 29, 2009)

e.bram said:


> Now is the time to cut bait. Use the SA and MF to buy an oceanfront TS and let CCHE go belly up. It probably will anyway if many of the dog weeks(most is seasonal Cape Cod) don't ante up.



You really do sound like you sell for InnSeason. Am I close or are you just that delusional? 

Why, would someone who had problems with the S/A at CCHE go and spend that money on a unit that is half the size in a shared condo building? Most owners at Cape Cod Holiday purchased there because of the privacy and vast space that the houses offer. 

VRI isn't new to this game, they have a solid business model and would not advise the BOD to undertake such a project if there was a risk it would put them under.


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## timeos2 (Nov 29, 2009)

*Be proactive. Speak to those who decide. Take part.*



e.bram said:


> Now is the time to cut bait. Use the SA and MF to buy an oceanfront TS and let CCHE go belly up. It probably will anyway if many of the dog weeks(most is seasonal Cape Cod) don't ante up.



I hope that anyone thinking of blindly following this bit of questionable advice has followed the history of other posts. While everyone here is more than welcome to a viewpoint - negative as my Wastegate / DVC may be or as positive as I can be about other resorts - when you read a specific post try to put it in context. In this case it appears we have a former timeshare believer who got badly burned and now has turned on the concept as a whole. Not that hard to do either as about 75% of timeshare operation/sales seems to be a negative experience that is often tipped against the owners.  But if you do your homework, buy resale, buy what you like - get it into the proper weeks or points system it can yield a tremendous value in top quality vacations in far better than small hotel rooms.  Make your ownership part of that 25% we all have come to love. 

While I fully understand the view that its all a scam, it will cost you plenty, it is best to "walk away" and leave the mess you helped buy into to others I don't think things are actually that bad. Again, be careful and participate wisely and nearly any resort can return a great value.  It certainly won't if you choose to walk away, fail to support the resort and your fellow owners and the volunteer Board.  Take part, offer options and be responsible is the best way to be a timeshare owner.   Volunteer to be on the Board. It's up to you how things turn out. Sell it or give it away if you don't like being a part of that resort anymore.


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## e.bram (Nov 29, 2009)

If everybody(how many units are HOA owned)antes up, the money spent there will be units up for sale on Ebay and other resales sites for a dollar with 0 bids. Then the Hoa will bring in a points converter so soak more dough fromthe hapless remaining owners. 
Been there, done that with Oceancliff(Newport, RI)and now they are trying to convert us to RCI points(special price $1500.00) after a $2200.00 SA. Should have bailed along time ago. If they had put the SA before I paid the MFs I would have. Owners, BAIL while you have the chance to save  both the MFs and SA. 
I bet most of the BOD has weeks 25 through 33. For those owners it might be worth a shot. For the rest, no way.


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## Vaca720 (Nov 29, 2009)

e.bram said:


> Now is the time to cut bait. Use the SA and MF to buy an oceanfront TS and let CCHE go belly up. It probably will anyway if many of the dog weeks(most is seasonal Cape Cod) don't ante up.



I must speak up here and say I take offense to this "advice". People come here because they care about their resort(s), are involved in it's going on's and are responsible timeshare owners. Cutting bait, as you so eloquently put it, is certainly not going to help answer questions or give any direction. To wish CCHE goes "belly up" is disgraceful! There are years and years of family memories wrapped up in CCHE and it deserves to thrive and carry on for many more. 

I'm surprised to see you listed as an Oceancliff owner and have this type of response. I've stayed there a number of times and know they went thru a major renovation which of course had to be special assessed. It was a couple years ago but do recall owners saying it was around $2000. I was amazed at the difference, beautiful!

A special assessment is a necessary evil in timeshare. Eventually the units will need to be renovated and the portion taken out of an annual maintenance fee for capitol improvements just won't cover it. Timeshares have laws and they can't garner a profit like businesses. Money taken in from maintenance fees are used to keep resorts running and there are alot of expenses! The capitol improvement/reserve fund IS set up for upgrades but that doesn't necessarily mean pretty furniture. It can be kitchen appliances, furnaces, a/c units, industrial washer/dryers, lumber, mattresses, tennis court repair, etc, etc. 

But of course address/question the bod if you have issues or concerns with a special assessment. Timeshares can only be if there are happy, satisfied owners!


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## e.bram (Nov 29, 2009)

Vaca720:
Yeah beautiful, but you didn't have to pay for it. If I would have bailed , I could buy the same TS for $1.00 and would be enjoying it even more not having paid the $2200.00.


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## Shiz (Nov 30, 2009)

e.bram said:


> Vaca720:
> Yeah beautiful, but you didn't have to pay for it. If I would have bailed , I could buy the same TS for $1.00 and would be enjoying it even more not having paid the $2200.00.



This kind of mercenary attitude is disgraceful. Basically your point is that someone else will foot the bill. Thankfully you are in the minority.

The response from Vaca720 is more along the lines of what I would expect. The CCHE owners I know are very passionate about the property and want to see it succeed. That being said, the negative feedback regarding the assessment isn't surprising either. However, they are willing to work with the owners with payment plans and the such to make it as easy as possible. If you elect to do the 5yr PP, it comes out to $2100 which is $420 a year. Not cheap money by any means, but at least its a little more manageable. The staff there has always gone above and beyond for their guests and I'm sure they'll continue to do so in the future. The money for an assessment is an investment in the property that, if you've seen the end result, will be well worth it.


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## e.bram (Nov 30, 2009)

Shiz:
Buy high and sell low, I guess that's your motto. 
Were talking real estate, not a relative.
We should buy from the developer,. They have to make a living as well and the sales people seem passionate about their job.
I personally feel I owe any TS anything, if it doesn't make financial sense to own, BAIL.


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## susette (Nov 30, 2009)

*CHE Bogus Special Assessment*

I'm sorry but your _*wonderful memories*_ are not tied up in a Timeshare unit. They are treasured because you were on Cape Cod, a beautiful beach area rich with Massachusetts history and culture.

I am not going to blindly pay a SA just because members have special memories and want the units to thrive.  I want to know what the money iis going to be used for SPECIFICALLY and I want to know why the board does not have a reserve built up for this kind of project. 

This is about money and being fair. It is NOT fair to charge members 4x their maintenance fee without so much as a proposed budget for renovations ahead of time.   

A fool and his money may part easily, but I am no fool and I do not blindly pay bills when they are handed to me . Yet CCHE expects that I will pay their bill, and just trust that they will act responsibly with my money.

They need to cancel the SA and find another way to pay for this renovation. Maybe they should just start saving....

my 2 cents.


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## susette (Nov 30, 2009)

*Anyway want a FREE CCHE Timeshare?*

For all you folks that are passionate about CCHE properties and trust the board is doing the right think with the SA, I have an offer for you.

I will give you my timeshare if you pay the SA. That's the deal. I will even take care of closing costs, this year's maintenance fess, and send you the DEED.  You just have to agree to pay the SA (in a lump sum of $1900) so I can be done with this BOD that I do not trust.

I own unit 27 - Week no 1.  This is a 2BR condo.

Feel free to contact me offline at eurortraks@yahoo.com

Thanks!
Susette Rego


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## Shiz (Nov 30, 2009)

susette said:


> This is about money and being fair. It is NOT fair to charge members 4x their maintenance fee without so much as a proposed budget for renovations ahead of time.



Where did you hear that there was no projected budget for the project? 

At the annual meeting in May 2008, all owners were shown the actual budget for the model house, down to the last nail. There should absolutely be one for this. I would call and request a copy if one is available. 

Yearly budgets also should be available and they have an exact breakdown of how the maintenance fees are spent. I would suspect that the reason the reserves isn't covering the renovation is because it hasn't been adequately funded in the past. (in order to keep the yearly fee down)


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## timeos2 (Nov 30, 2009)

*The money is the same - collect it then, now or later.*



susette said:


> They need to cancel the SA and find another way to pay for this renovation. Maybe they should just start saving....
> 
> my 2 cents.



The plan should have been to start saving 5-10 years ago to do the work now. I assume that, like most resorts, owners wanted low fees so they didn't want fees increased to collect for work 5-10 years away.  And/or the Board may have failed to plan that far ahead. 

Now the work is required. So the bill must be paid. If they decided against the SA now and simply started collecting for the future it would still be coming from the owners. But if it was to occur 5 years from now they would bill 1/5 this year, 1/5 next, etc. Basically the same plan as the payment plan someone else mentioned. The owners will pay as they own the resort. There is no other source for the funding. 

I am sure there is a budget plan available as that is usually required to back up any SA.


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## susette (Nov 30, 2009)

*SA Budget and BOD Meeting*

Unfortunately I was overseas in May of 2008. Showing owners a proposed budget is not the same as sending out a letter. I am very disappointed that this is happening and not all members were adequately polled or notified.

@ palmtree7339 
Do you know if I can have a proxy attend to the Dec 3 meeting and voice my opinion for me??  I do not live in New England and getting up there for this meeting would be costly for me.

Thanks!
Susette


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## palmtree7339 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Answer to Susette*

Susette,

Only CCHE owners are entitled to attend the Dec. 3rd HOA Bd. Mtg. at the Resort.

Suggest you email the Resort and indicate your views to the Bd. re: the S.A. 

palmtree7339


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## susette (Nov 30, 2009)

*Just got my SA Explanation w Bogus Ballot*

I just received the SA information in the mail, and have started reading it.

I have a comment already. They included an index card asking owners to vote on what kind of sliding door we want installed in our unit. They called this card a "Ballot". 
*
This is an old marketing trick* to make owners think they are involved in the renovations, and have some input... when in fact the owners have no input and will never be offered a real vote regarding the renovations.  (I've used a similar tactic many times when dealing with clients at work). 

Its a marketing ploy that is so overused, I will be very surprised if it has the intended effect on the unit owners. I suspect VRI is coaching the BOD on the best methods to placate owners as they go through this SA.

Basically, this "Ballot" is an intentional distraction and its purpose is two-fold: 

1, They want us to feel like we are involved by asking us to vote on an item that means nothing in terms of the renovation.

2. Once they receive the index cards back from the owners (no matter what the final vote outcome is for the door in question) they will claim that they have "Buy-in" for the renovations because people returned this ONE card with ONE question on it.

I'm disheartened by this... reading on though.

S


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## e.bram (Nov 30, 2009)

Week 1 in Cape Cod is less than worthless(especially inland). After the smoke clears owners would a much better week resale for the cost of the SA.aybe even a summer week.


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## susette (Dec 1, 2009)

*Giving back your timeshare in Massachusetts*

Just an FYI for anyone wishing to default on a timeshare. Don't do it. Look into your options.

For example, I just found out that in Massachusetts, you can go to Superior Court and ask that a judge release you from ownership of the timeshare. if you have good enough reason, the judge will probably grant your request and the property will get deeded back to the resort.

Just wanted to put that out there for anyone thinking that the CCHE special assessment is outrageous. You DO have an option. 

Sue


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## e.bram (Dec 1, 2009)

With only 8 decent weeks in Cape Cod, I wonder how many owners will be left after the smoke clears? After all is a lot of money in this economy if you are not a Kennedy, and CCHE is not the Kennedy Compound. Will the remaining owners be able to afford the new MFs with a reduced number of paying members? CCHE may eventually become insolvent. I say best to leave well enough alone if the TS is solvent now.


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## susette (Feb 2, 2010)

*CCED Owners - Please Read!*

Hi All,

I am a Cape Cod Holiday Estate timeshare owner, and I completely think this Special Assessment for condo refurbishment is complete BS. The price is too high, and VRI has refused to detail their costs to unit owners.  

I have already sent a letter to VRI protesting the debt incurred on my behalf due to the Special Assessment.  As a result of my complaint, and a bunch of other unit owners complaint, Rich Mueller at VRi sent me a letter saying I could defer my payment for the S.A. until 2011.  

In case anyone would like to take this option, here is what he wrote to me "Resale options are available as are payment terms that allow owners to defer the first installment to 2011.  If you would like further information on either of these options, I can forward it forthwith." 

Below is his information:

Richard Muller, Sr. VP Resort Operations
Vacation Resorts International
Office  508-771-3399 / Direct   774-487-3500
rich.muller@vriresorts.com

I do not think deferring payment until 2011 is acceptable. 

I  also requested appropriate documents related to the owners vote on the S.A., the SA budget and proposed contractors.  VRI claims no owner vote was required, and basically refused to send us any of the requested documents.

I am now in the process of reviewing the Master Deed and the timeshare condo laws in Massachusetts, which supercede anything in the Master Deed.  I will post my findings to this board as soon as I know what the Master deed and MA statute says.

Two things I would like to let you all know are:

1. You are not alone! I went to the resort this weekend and found out there are 127 owners trying to sell their time-share units right now!  I have the list if anyone wants it.

2. I plan to build a website community for CCED owners. This will allow us to swap experiences, information and complaints. 

If anyone is in the process of doing similar research on Massachusetts law, or would like to start a class action suit with me, please contact me at your earlier convenience.  My email address is eurotraks@yahoo.com

Any and all feedback are welcome. Thanks!

Sue


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## bekachan (Feb 4, 2010)

Are a lot of owners bailing out?


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## palmtree7339 (Feb 6, 2010)

*CCHE Misinformation from Susette*



bekachan said:


> Are a lot of owners bailing out?



Re: CCHE Renovation Assessment.

You should refer to the thread entitled
"VRI bill arrived" by Corky, initiated on
November 20th 2009, for accurate information involved with this subject.  It can be found here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110709

Unfortunately, Susette's postings are mostly inaccurate, biased, and border on slanderous allegations, and are never supported by any evidence whatsoever. 

Palmtree


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## e.bram (Feb 6, 2010)

Five will get you ten, that Palmtree is a prime week owner trying to intimidate  dog week owners to ante up the SA instead of bailing.(not throwing good money after bad)
Sussette knows where it is at with her week one(a less than worthless week ie. worthless would be good would be good).


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## palmtree7339 (Feb 7, 2010)

*Reply to e.bram*



e.bram said:


> Five will get you ten, that Palmtree is a prime week owner trying to intimidate  dog week owners to ante up the SA instead of bailing.(not throwing good money after bad)
> Sussette knows where it is at with her week one(a less than worthless week ie. worthless would be good would be good).



e.bram,

Seems like you are one of those who do not want facts presented to them, but instead want to stir the pot to scare timeshare owners into "bailing"
on their vacation ownership.
Since when is the act of presenting the FACTS considered intimidation?

Palmtree


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## e.bram (Feb 7, 2010)

Palmtree:
How about the fact that except for weeks 25 thru 34 the TS units are now and will be even more less than worthless with the SA. What else do you need to know, am I missing something? What are that FACTS that counter this? You could get them for nothing on Ebay before the SA was announced.(however, not the prime weeks 25 thru 34). Why put good money after bad.My Oceancliff is still worth the same nothing it was before the $2200.00 SA.(and Newport is less seasonal than Cape Cod) These are the FACTS. IMHO there is nothing wrong with spreading the facts.


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## palmtree7339 (Feb 7, 2010)

*CCHE, Reply to e.bram posting.*



e.bram said:


> Palmtree:
> How about the fact that except for weeks 25 thru 34 the TS units are now and will be even more less than worthless with the SA. What else do you need to know, am I missing something? What are that FACTS that counter this? You could get them for nothing on Ebay before the SA was announced.(however, not the prime weeks 25 thru 34). Why put good money after bad.My Oceancliff is still worth the same nothing it was before the $2200.00 SA.(and Newport is less seasonal than Cape Cod) These are the FACTS. IMHO there is nothing wrong with spreading the facts.



e.bram,

OK, we now have an honest difference of opinion, as to your strong feeling that CCHE owners should "bail", and refuse to pay their S.A. and M.F.'s, and instead, do nothing, or try to give their unit interest away on EBAY, etc. for peanuts, or for zero return.

I hope you will respect my opposing view, that nothing is gained for the unit owner by doing so. To do the above, as you suggest, leaves the owner in a position of being delinquent, forfeiting their usage rights, their exchange options,
their opportunity to rent the usage week, gifting it to family members, or friends, and then, the owner will be subject to lien or foreclosure action that shall inevitably occur, affecting their credit history, significantly.

Your view is that by "bailing", this will make more sense, in that the unit owner will save about $400 per year for 5 years in S.A.payments, plus annual M.F.'s. even though the owner's vacation property will certainly be greatly enhanced in amenities, exchange trading power,  rental value, and personal vacation enjoyment, once the renovation improvements are completed

We can surely agree that the T/S market at this time is depressed, but we do not know at this time what the market will be 3 or 5 years from now. It is, of course, possible that by maintaining ownership now, the value of T/S units will rebound. But, by forfeiting ownership interest now, owners do lose this potential future opportunity.

And yes, of course, I am an owner at
CCHE, and have been for over 25 years.
In my opinion, CCHE is the premier Resort on Cape Cod, and, I am quite concerned that your stated views, as a non-owner, will unduly and negatively affect the decisions made by some of our fellow owners, in this regard.  

By an owner "bailing", as you have recommended, the Resort will then either rent the improved unit, or sell the unit, with the proceeds being deposited in the Resorts General Fund, and applied towards its common expenses. 

I hope we can agree to disagree, with mutual respect, and with the best interests of the affected CCHE owners in mind.

Sincerely,

Palmtree


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## e.bram (Feb 7, 2010)

Palmtree:
The best interest for all except the prime week owners is to liquidate in an orderly manner and distribute the proceeds evenly to all unit owners.
Right now most weeks have and will continue to have(SA notwithstanding) a NEGATIVE value.(can't even give it away on Ebay)
By the way what week do you own? If it is between 25 and 34 I can see your point.


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## palmtree7339 (Feb 7, 2010)

*CCHE, Reply to e.bram.*



e.bram said:


> Palmtree:
> The best interest for all except the prime week owners is to liquidate in an orderly manner and distribute the proceeds evenly to all unit owners.
> Right now most weeks have and will continue to have(SA notwithstanding) a NEGATIVE value.(can't even give it away on Ebay)
> By the way what week do you own? If it is between 25 and 34 I can see your point.



E.bram,

You recommend that CCHE owners "liquidate in an orderly manner and distribute the proceeds
evenly to all unit owners".

Please explain, in detail, how this can be accomplished.

In my opinion, this could never occur,
except in some fantasy world.

I shall eagerly await your response.

Thanks,

Palmtree


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## e.bram (Feb 7, 2010)

in onr word Bankruptcy!


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## timeos2 (Feb 7, 2010)

*Two down. Got anymore?*



e.bram said:


> Palmtree:
> The best interest for all except the prime week owners is to liquidate in an orderly manner and distribute the proceeds evenly to all unit owners.
> Right now most weeks have and will continue to have(SA notwithstanding) a NEGATIVE value.(can't even give it away on Ebay)
> By the way what week do you own? If it is between 25 and 34 I can see your point.



This isn't an option as it would take a super majority of owners to vote for it. If you look at just the prime week owners it would fail. It isn't even a proposal on the table so whats your second choice? 

I see you think bankruptcy is the other option. Once again there is no talk of insolvency at the resort but rather an obtainable need to improve and upgrade. There is no basis for a bankruptcy.  Third choice?


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## e.bram (Feb 7, 2010)

If each unit have to contribute over $100,000.00 to make the units habitable, that to me is grounds for insolvency. How much more would it cost to build the units from scratch not including the land?


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## palmtree7339 (Feb 7, 2010)

e.bram said:


> If each unit have to contribute over $100,000.00 to make the units habitable, that to me is grounds for insolvency. How much more would it cost to build the units from scratch not including the land?



Just where do you get these goofy suppositions from, anyway?
Have you lost touch with the real world?
Your comments have now reached the point where further dialogue is useless.
Sayonara, Palmtree


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## ausman (Feb 7, 2010)

I have also found e. bram to be objectionable and mostly espousing nonsense.

However, the special assessment of $1900 per unit roughly equates to $100K per unit to renovate.

I think it is a fair question.


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## e.bram (Feb 8, 2010)

Yeah, blame the messenger. The fact is with SA most of the units are unsalable. What is a dollar TS unit worth with a $2000.00 SA hanging over it's head. With no sales possible many units will be abandoned purposely or because of the economy and aging owners who no longer can use or afford the TS even w/o the SA.A death spiral will follow.  Prime owners like Palmtree (with enlightened self interest)are trying to intimidate off season owners with threats of credit destruction and  and law suits(the worst you can do is lose and if you pay you lost anyway). I don't think it will work with the aging and economically stressed owner population. Calling me names won't help or change the financial situation either. Besides it is not him I am preaching to anyway. So I really don't care if he(she) responds.


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## timeos2 (Feb 8, 2010)

*Whatever the majority does will determine the result*



e.bram said:


> Yeah, blame the messenger. The fact is with SA most of the units are unsalable. What is a dollar TS unit worth with a $2000.00 SA hanging over it's head. With no sales possible many units will be abandoned purposely or because of the economy and aging owners who no longer can use or afford the TS even w/o the SA.A death spiral will follow.



Based on the reported response from all owners to date this doomsday scenario will not play out. Instead the majority of owners seem to recognize the value of the use/vacation (what they actually purchased) at a greatly improved resort that the SA will give them.   It can be said that the owners have spoken and they support the actions of the Board/management. 

Of course there will always be a few that don't agree and they have every right to that opinion. Ultimately the majority will rule (it appears that has already happened) and that too is as it should be.


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## e.bram (Feb 8, 2010)

"It ain't over till it's over"   Y. Berra


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## GordonH (May 9, 2010)

Any news from the annual owners' meeting which I believe was held yesterday (May 8th)?


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## palmtree7339 (May 26, 2010)

*CCHE Annual Meeting, May 8th 2010.*

The Annual meeting was well attended, and a thorough discussion of the
Renovation Program, as well as the S.A. was conducted.

The management company, VRI, presented a power point viewing of the before and after interiors of what was to be done in each cottage in the next few years. One third of the cottages will have completely new kitchens, and another one third will have completely new master baths, with brand new jacuzzi's. This will be completed prior to the end of this year. Next year, the same, until all 32 cottages are renovated by the end of 2012.

The SA was discussed at length. All questions were responded to in detail, by the BOD, as well as VRI.

All 4 incumbent BOD members were re-elected.

The owners appear to be satisfied that the actions taken to upgrade the Resort were necessary, timely, and fiscally well thought out.

All cottages now have internet access as well. 

The Resort has just created its own website, whereby owners will receive updates on Resort information, as well as accessing the minutes of each BOD meeting.

The next BOD meeting is scheduled on Thursday, Sept. 16th at 10:00AM, at the Resort. All owners may attend.


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## e.bram (May 26, 2010)

How many have bailed already? Hard numbers. Nobody is saying.Why keep it a secret?


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## palmtree7339 (May 26, 2010)

*CCHE Annual Meeting, May 8th 2010.*

Ebram,

There are no secrets. Any owner can request and receive information. They can also attend BOD meetings, to obtain any info they desire. 
I do not understand where you are coming from, as a non-owner at Cape Cod Holiday Estates.
What is your point, or your objective?
Please reply.

Palmtree7339


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## e.bram (May 26, 2010)

Palmtree: answer my question 1st.


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## theo (May 27, 2010)

*For what it's worth...*



palmtree7339 said:


> The management company, VRI, presented a power point viewing of the before and after interiors of what was to be done in each cottage in the next few years. .



I have no dog in this fight at all; I don't own at this facility and I don't know (or claim to know) a single thing about this facility.

That much clearly stated right up front, I have owned (and still own now) a number of weeks at several different VRI managed facilities --- for several decades now. I have been (and I remain) consistently impressed with VRI's competency, management expertise and fiscal responsibilty.

I don't claim to know (...or need or want to know) the background behind this huge, unexpected and sizable special assessment, but I'd be willing to bet that VRI has not been the management entity at this facility for too many consecutive years now, as this kind of "surprise" development  simply does not fit their historical pattern of behavior, at least in my own experiences with VRI over the past 25 years or so. 

Take heart, CCHE owners. I frankly find it hard to believe that VRI would be imposing any such financial burden unless it was absolutely necessary to do so. VRI manages over 125 facilities in the U.S. alone. Their track record speaks for itself. In my opinion, they are the best around.

For the record, I have absolutely no affiliation of any kind with VRI, past present or future --- beyond that of being a satisfied and experienced owner of several weeks at a few different facilities capably and responsibly managed by VRI.


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## Shiz (May 28, 2010)

eBram perhaps you should worry about your own resort before meddling in the affairs of others. InnSeason so badly managed their Cape properties that they looked to VRI to bail them out. I highly doubt (and it has been stated by many different Tug users here) that VRI's vast experience in the timeshare industry would have them suggest a plan of action for CCHE that would result in massive delinquency. 

If you would like information on non-performing weeks, you can simply look to the Barnstable County clerks office as the deeds are public record. Instead of being lazy and combative with your own personal agenda use some of those keyboard skills to do some actual investigating, if so you desire.


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## e.bram (May 30, 2010)

Shiz(11 posts):
The purpose of these boards is not for self interest but to help others. I am simply trying to make interested parties aware of the situation as if may exist and help them obtain the facts which may  govern those interested parties decisions.
Your suggestions for obtaining the facts cannot provide a real time analysis as foreclosures may take years(if ever) to show up and be an indication of the bailers numbers.


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## ace2000 (May 31, 2010)

To answer the OP's original question...  a SA of $1900, in this economic climate, is way too high, and reflects some very poor decision making along the way.  Either the annual fees have been too low for years, or there has been gross mismanagement of the spending.  Everyone can draw their own conclusions...


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## palmtree7339 (Jun 4, 2010)

ace2000 said:


> To answer the OP's original question...  a SA of $1900, in this economic climate, is way too high, and reflects some very poor decision making along the way.  Either the annual fees have been too low for years, or there has been gross mismanagement of the spending.  Everyone can draw their own conclusions...



To ACE2000,

You appear to be another example, (like E.Bram), of someone who makes allegations based only on assumptions, without any shred of evidence to support their statements.

The owners, in May, 2010, (last month), supported and reelected the CCHE Board members, in total. The owners were fully informed, and at the Annual meeting, there was a total absence of any expressed objections re: the SA.    

If you were a CCHE owner, you would know better, and not assume "gross mismanagement", or insufficient annual maintenance fees in past years.

CCHE is a Resort with 33 stand alone cottages. The expenses to maintain and renovate cottages cannot be compared to the average hotel-like timeshare units.

If you have evidence of any mismanagement at CCHE, please advise.

Thanks,  Palmtree 7339


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## e.bram (Jun 4, 2010)

Palmtree:
The question is not a matter of mismanagement or not, but whether it makes sense for a nonprime(all except weeks 25-34) CCHE owners to invest $2000.00 into something that will have negative value(look at Ebay sales) even AFTER the contribution.


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## palmtree7339 (Jun 4, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Palmtree:
> The question is not a matter of mismanagement or not, but whether it makes sense for a nonprime(all except weeks 25-34) CCHE owners to invest $2000.00 into something that will have negative value(look at Ebay sales) even AFTER the contribution.



To E.Bram & Ace 2000,

Apparently, the vast majority of CCHE owners have answered this question of yours already, by overwhelmingly supporting the CCHE Board & its managment company, VRI.

The SA payments by the owners, to date, are amazingly high, as they are spread over a 5 year period, in order for the Resort to renovate each cottage completely, from the interior walls inward. This is a major interior construction project, not a minor tinkering, as you may have imagined. 

I believe that if either of you were current CCHE owners, which apparently you both are not, you would not be taking the stance that you have chosen to portray to all interested Tuggers.

I welcome your responses.

Palmtree7339


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## e.bram (Jun 4, 2010)

Palmtree:
What is and will be the resale value of a non-prime CCHE week? That is all one has to know to determine whether to  throw good money after bad.


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## palmtree7339 (Jun 5, 2010)

E.Bram,

Apparently you believe that the paramount concern of owners at CCHE should be the resale value of their units.

CAN YOU NOT ACCEPT THE OBVIOUS, THAT THE OWNERS HAVE OVERWHELMINGLY ACCEPTED THE SA, AND HAVE APPROVED OF THE EXTENSIVE IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH WILL BE IMPLEMENTED OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS?

The resale value of these units is NOT the important factor here, although you seem to think that it should be. A satisfied owner enjoys the usage each year, and is willing to financially support this ongoing renovation program, and not "bail", as you have previously recommended.

The resale value affects only those timeshare owners who are interested in 
the sale of their unit, not the satisfied owner who has no interest in the divesting of timeshare ownership which meets their vacation needs.

Apparently you cannot see, or will not accept, this clear-cut distinction.

But, please try.

Palmtree7339


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## Shiz (Jul 25, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Shiz(11 posts):
> The purpose of these boards is not for self interest but to help others.



How ironic.
e.bram

BBS Reg. Date: Jun 6, 05
Location: Fort Lee, NJ
Posts: 1,571

Resorts: *Surfside resort(MA) 3 weeks* OceanCliff I&2 (RI) Newport Overlook(RI) 2weeks



e.bram said:


> For $2795.00 you canbut a TS on the ocean, not miles away.





e.bram said:


> Now is the time to cut bait. Use the SA and MF to buy an oceanfront TS and let CCHE go belly up. It probably will anyway if many of the dog weeks(most is seasonal Cape Cod) don't ante up.





e.bram said:


> BAIL!!! No sense putting good money after bad especially if you don.t have a prime red week. You can take the SA moiney and buy an oceanfront T^S. See  if the BOD will tell you how many units the HOA now owns and what it will own after SA. All thev money in the world will not put the TS on the ocean where the value of Cape Cod lies.





e.bram said:


> You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Only smoke and mirrors can give value to off season non oceanfront Cape Cod.



You say you don't have self interest, but most of your argument revolves around the same point: That a timeshare on Cape Cod is completely worthless unless it overlooks the ocean. Oddly enough, you yourself happen to own at a competing resort not too far away from CCHE, that is on the water. Of course, if CCHE went out of business, it would obviously benefit your resort greatly if those owners migrated, wouldn't it?

I don't need to post a lot to see you have a personal agenda, and that most likely it doesn't involve "helping others" as much as spreading negative thoughts and ideas. It would be one thing if you were an actual owner at the resort, but your soapbox ranting is repetitive, offensive, and uneducated. (as observed by many)

Look at it this way - if I were to say that buying into a TS on the ocean is stupid because of the danger of flooding and disaster, what would you say? Do you know what your delinquency rates are and how well funded your reserves are at Surfside? How the resort would recover if faced with a major problem that wasn't covered under insurance? Would you pay a S/A if need be in order to keep your resort up to the standards of the current times?

Different people have different opinions and values. Just because you aren't one for CCHE doesn't mean there isn't those out there who are. I know for a fact their board and management goes far beyond what most would expect from a resort in terms of owner and guest service which is why most people see value where you don't. (just look at the S/A payment plan.. $2000 over 5 years with the work done in 24 months? That's a new one for me) 

Timeshare will never be a "good" investment. You won't make your money back, and most likely, there's going to be someone out there who paid less then you did to get the same product. (welcome to America) At the end of the day as long as the resort remains open and successful it is a good thing for the industry as a whole.


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## e.bram (Jul 25, 2010)

Been there, done that with my Oceancliff(managed by VRI) with a huge SA.
My advice to CCHE owners is bail and buy for $1.00 on Ebay. I shold have done that with Oceancliff.


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## Shiz (Jul 25, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Been there, done that with my Oceancliff(managed by VRI) with a huge SA.
> My advice to CCHE owners is bail and buy for $1.00 on Ebay. I shold have done that with Oceancliff.



Your advice is flawed. 

These are _non-profit_ organizations. Maybe you don't' fully understand the concept. Every single dime of a maintenance fee or assessment is budgeted and spent. If a majority of owners "bailed", like you suggested, there would be no resort to buy back units from. They would also do a number on their credit (for those who still care about that) and risk the chance of costly legal fees. There are resorts out there who employ attorney's to handle debt collection for owners who are significantly behind in dues. In these cases a lawyer well versed in real estate law can easily win judgments to levy wages, place liens, etc. Even if a person attempts to transfer a unit into a shell corporation in order to escape a m.fee, if it can be proven the transfer was done to defraud the association it can revert back to the original owner

The point I'm trying to make is that the "easy way out" that you continually suggest is in fact not as beneficial or as simple as you make it sound. The wise choice would be to work with the management company to make the payments while attempting to move the unit and use the renovation as a selling point. (one of the main reasons for renovations in the first place is to modernize a TS in order to attract "new blood." original owners from 30 years in the past are fine with the status quo, but eventually the interval will need to change hands to a younger generation who expect more modern facilities)

Before you argue that non-prime weeks are worth nothing, remember that this is strictly your opinion based on zero experience or knowledge of the resort itself.  CCHE used to (and as far as I know, still does) utilize a resort exchange program where for a nominal fee owners can switch weeks based on availability. Also, for those that can do it, the "fringe" weeks in May/Sept/Oct are also nice as the weather is usually pleasantly cool and there is not a lot of traffic or annoying tourists. November brings Thanksgiving, December has Xmas and New Years, February, March, and April have school vacations for the various New England states. Some people just like to get away, regardless of what time of year it is, and in CCHE's case instead of being stuffed in a tiny unit they are in a two bedroom home that I believe has roughly 1600sq. feet. 

So again, your advice is flawed and based on opinion, assumptions, and limited experience.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 25, 2010)

Shiz, I can empathize!  You are experiencing the same frustration many of us have had with e.bram and his negativity and general lack of understanding.  Ignore him.  I am so much happier now.


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## e.bram (Jul 25, 2010)

The corp might be non profit, but not the parasites that suck off it.(Remember United Fund chairman making millions salary).
To wit Oceancliff(managed by VRI(not non profit)) collected $2200.00 per week ($104,000.00 per unit) and did little more than cosmetic improvements. Oceancliff units by an large(except weeks 25-34) CAN'T even be sold for a dollar with free closing and a weeks use.(after the SA).
The same will be true for CCHE after the SA  is paid and the work is done. And now with the SA hanging I would say they are unsalable, even to a PC company.


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## e.bram (Jul 25, 2010)

Rickandcindy23:
You think I am negative now , can you imagine how negative I would be if I lived in the middle of nowhere miles from the ocean.


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## Shiz (Jul 26, 2010)

e.bram said:


> The corp might be non profit, but not the parasites that suck off it.(Remember United Fund chairman making millions salary).
> To wit Oceancliff(managed by VRI(not non profit)) collected $2200.00 per week ($104,000.00 per unit) and did little more than cosmetic improvements. Oceancliff units by an large(except weeks 25-34) CAN'T even be sold for a dollar with free closing and a weeks use.(after the SA).
> The same will be true for CCHE after the SA  is paid and the work is done. And now with the SA hanging I would say they are unsalable, even to a PC company.



As an owner, you should be able to get a detailed budget which lists exactly how your $2200.00 special assessment was spent. Also, is the resort 100% sold with no delinquency? You cannot just multiply a special assessment by the # of intervals and figure out the cost. Budgeting for those who don't pay, or for non-performing (unsold) inventory can increase the cost of a s/a dramatically.

Inferring that VRI inflated the cost in order to profit is irresponsible unless you have documentation to prove it. There are management companies that do charge a fee for work such as that, but from my experience VRI is not one of them. (I believe Marriott Vacation Club charges 10% on top of the bill for any renovation work done, for instance)


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## e.bram (Jul 26, 2010)

Can you document your experiences vis a vis VRI?


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## Shiz (Jul 27, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Can you document your experiences vis a vis VRI?



This isn't a cross examination. If you cannot answer the questions I have posed to you intelligently then it's not worth my time to justify yours. 

I'm not the one who has an agenda here. My sole purpose for reading and posting here is to educate myself as well as to share what I know for the benefit of others. The personal opinions I do have are supported with actual factual evidence. Can you say the same thing about yourself?


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## timeos2 (Jul 27, 2010)

*VRI - Highly recommended*



e.bram said:


> Can you document your experiences vis a vis VRI?



Isn't clear who you are asking (I guess its Shiz but a quote would have helped clarify). 

As for my own experiences with VRI: 

- First heard of them when I purchased, sight unseen, a fixed summer week at the Cove @ Yarmouth in 1997 via Holiday Resales for a fantastic price (<$3000 for a fixed summer week that even today sells regularly for $5000+ - much higher than the other, float times also sold). Thanks to the very helpful folks here on TUG when I was still a relative novice I was advised that buying a fixed summer week was a much smarter purchase than the <$1000 prime Float also offered despite the fact that in theory both could get a week in the highly valuable summer week use period at the resort. Only with the fixed week were we guaranteed to get that and the value for use, trade or rent is day & night with a summer week vs all others. It turned out VRI managed the resort thus I was introduced to their operation.   And the fixed week was the FAR more valuable time to own.

- From 1997 to 2000 we were exposed to the VRI way of management vs the developer approach at all our other ownerships of that time. It was clear to me that an owner controlled and independent management contract were critical parts of a good timeshare ownership experience. I also became fully involved in timeshare operations aas I was elected to a Board in 1998. 

-When problems developed at the resort I was on the Board for my suggestion was to at least look at VRI as an option for management at that resort. We also looked at other Developer based management and over 5 other independent management groups in 2000/2001.  

- After many on site visits and even more interviews, along with an expensive and ultimately successful lawsuit, our Board at the other resort reached a consensus to hire VRI as the new management group under what we saw as a very favorable contract. VRI supplied an extremely detailed plan to turn around a resort in such deep trouble that we had to have a special assessment in 2001 simply to pay bills and fund the resort operations through year end - all done under the original Developer based management with orders to do,it from the Owner controlled Board. Delinquencies at the time of that assessment were over 44%!!!!

- Fast forward 5 years later (and one more Special Assessment to get the resort back into Gold Crown condition and we DID regain that award - a VERY hard thing to accomplish) and we had a 92% plus collection rate, a fully renovated resort and near zero Association owned weeks to resell. An unbelievable turn around that never could have happened without a steady hand from VRI and their recommendation for one of the best General Managers ever  when it came to financial accountability and owner focus. We had never had a manager last more than 10 months in the past management rein while that manager now will celebrate his 10th full year with us in October. Stability is a KEY and VRI has it in spades. 

- Today even with the collapse of the economy we have an estimated collection percentage of over 95%  for 2010 and have no debt other than the usual "churn" of owners coming on and off the delinquent list (none of which are over 1 year old) and a roof loan we obtained from a bank to correct a builders defect we tried but could not recover from the original builder/developer as both had gone bankrupt. 

- Yes both resorts had Special Assessments but they were fully documented and did what the OWNERS wanted - made the resorts live up to current standards and be what was promised at purchase. In both cases the regualr fees have remained stable and now cover all requirements up to and including 100% funding of estimated reserves to keep the resorts in top shape & up to date in features. 

Our experience with VRI is extremely positive and I would recommend them to ANY resort needing a quality, owner focused management group. There may be others that do it well too but I know the results from VRI and they could not have been any better for both the resorts I own and they manage.


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