# Wyndham and Smugglers Notch Vermont



## massvacationer (Jan 6, 2011)

Wyndham (I believe using the WAAM business model) is going to start selling the unsold timeshare inventory at Smugglers Notch Vermont....sounds like it'll be in the points system

I think this is great news!!


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## 3kids4me (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't know how good it is for those of use who own Smuggs, but then again I know nothing about the Wyndham system.  I do wonder what kind of inventory would be left for Wyndham though!


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## jjmanthei05 (Jan 6, 2011)

I would think for Wyndham to WAAM this property there would need to be a section of units that would be Wyndham's to sell. So for example when they did Reunion in Orlando I think they got like 30 units of all 52 weeks to sell and those just became the "Wyndham points" units. I don't think Wyndham would "fill in" open spots but I guess its possible. 

Jason


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## STEVIE (Jan 6, 2011)

Does this mean Smuggs would become a Wyndham resort? Sue


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## STEVIE (Jan 6, 2011)

What is the WAAM business model? Thanks, Sue


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## massvacationer (Jan 6, 2011)

here's a link to the news release for more info

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wyndham-Vacation-Ownership-iw-2824966055.html?x=0&.v=1



WAAM is where Wyndham takes unsold condo-timeshare inventory, sells it as Wyndham points, and keeps a percentage of the sales dollars for the effort........SO if a developer has built a bunch of condos or timeshares and can't sell them, Wyndham will step in, sell them, and keep of piece of the sales dollars as payment........This can be a win-win for the developer and Wyndham.  The developer gets out of a bad situation and Wyndham gets to sell new timeshares without having to invest much capital.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jan 6, 2011)

massvacationer said:


> Wyndham (I believe using the WAAM business model) is going to start selling the unsold timeshare inventory at Smugglers Notch Vermont....sounds like it'll be in the points system
> 
> I think this is great news!!



I own 3 weeks at Smuggs and this can not be good for the owners.


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## Stricky (Jan 6, 2011)

The email we got today says it will not effect current owners or theway the resort is opporated. Not sure I buy that.

To me it also means the "developer" wanted to get out of the business and sold all remaining inventory. While the email we got made it sound like they wanted to "begin assesing investment opportunities" i am not sure that means at Smuggs. It might mean they are moving on.

Plus for most owners we are attached to the sales force on site. Nice people that have been there for ever. I doubt this is good news for them.


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## 3kids4me (Jan 6, 2011)

The e-mail does say that current owners have the opportunity to convert their units into Wyndham points, but it certainly seems like if one were going to convert to anything, it would be RCI points (which will still be an option).


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## chris1gill (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, on the one hand Wyndham may be able to sell the unsold inventory that has been sitting for quite some time. There is a significant cost to holding those units as they haven't been able to sell them (these units were already underway when housing took a dive).... This as a result may bring more cash flow into the resort overall for other costs.

Now what it means to existing Smugg's owners, well I don't think it's great news by any stretch, maybe quite the opposite but the resort has to be profitable to stay in business.... Only time will tell exactly what this means...  Wyndham did not take over operations of the resort or buy the resort for instance, so Wyndham's hand is only so long at this point. Maybe in the future that will change... time will tell...

I will say that even very recently management had a number of improvements they wanted to make on site at the resort, and they were looking into a few different options for bringing in cash flow, so I don't necessarily think they're out of this thing.


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## hdmass (Jan 6, 2011)

Our email didn't mention converting to Wyndham points.

What does this mean for the not yet built yet Tamaracks building that they had gotten funding for last year?  Will those units go immediately to Wyndham?


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## chris1gill (Jan 6, 2011)

Here's the press release...

http://www.smuggs.com/pages/univers...d&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=listServer_01

It would seem Wyndham will only be the agent, they obviously have some agreement for all the unsold timeshares, but it doesn't look like they will own them, but rather sell them, incorporate them in the Wyndham plus program and the rest is still a mystery...   I don't see anywhere in the email where it says current owners can convert to Wyndham points (I see that as a good thing).

They will keep some real estate in house ie: full ownership units, but I suspect that is likely just one person part time...  they will still need marketing for select markets for lift tickets, rentals, etc... but it seems to me that Smugg's rentals will compete with Wyndham rentals, and that might not even be possible considering Wyndham just about gives their nights away and if you take a tour they DO give their nights away...


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## 3kids4me (Jan 6, 2011)

hdmass, that's interesting.  Could there have been different e-mails that went out?  Mine says:

_As an owner, you will have the opportunity to convert your current week(s) at Smugglers' into the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus® program, Wyndham's points-based internal exchange program that allows owners to vacation at more than 70 resorts and enjoy other vacation options and access to special travel opportunities such as cruises and guided tours._


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## chris1gill (Jan 6, 2011)

Maybe there was a different email for full year owners versus timeshare owners? Interesting that's what your email says....


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## massvacationer (Jan 6, 2011)

I think there will be multiple POAs. The existing POAs for the existing fixed (or floating?) weeks owners - and new POAs for the new UDI (timeshares deeded in points) contracts that Wyndham will be selling.  So, the existing POAs will probably continue to operate as they have.

So, I don't think that current owners will be affected too much.  You won't have to convert to points.  And, if you are interested in wyndham points, many times you are better-off buying wyndham points contracts on the resale market than converting existing weeks, as it is cheaper.  Sometimes it can make sense to convert, though.

I am not sure who is going to manage the new POAs (or the existing ones) - wyndham or the existing management group???  The press release seems to indicate that smugglers will continue to take-care of property management, but not sure if this applies to everything.

Anyway, as a wyndham points owner, I am very happy to be able to access such a great, world-class, family resort with my points!!!!


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## GrayFal (Jan 6, 2011)

chris1gill said:


> Here's the press release...
> 
> http://www.smuggs.com/pages/univers...d&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=listServer_01
> 
> ...



From the link posted

*It is anticipated that Wyndham’s timeshare owners can begin vacationing at Smugglers’ Notch Vermont® Resort in the second quarter of 2011*. *Residential home purchases and rentals at the Resort, as well as property management services, will continue to be managed by Smugglers’ Notch Management Company, Ltd. *


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## 3kids4me (Jan 6, 2011)

chris1gill said:


> Maybe there was a different email for full year owners versus timeshare owners? Interesting that's what your email says....



The e-mail also said that this would *just* affect timeshare owners and not full owners.  Did full owners get any kind of e-mail?  I was under the impression that hdmass is also a timeshare owner....


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## hdmass (Jan 6, 2011)

3kids4me,
Yes, I think there are different emails for different types of owners.  We are familyshare owners, but have converted most of our float weeks to points.  We did not convert any of our fixed weeks.  I'm interested to see the FAQ's they put on the website.


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## chris1gill (Jan 6, 2011)

3kids4me said:


> The e-mail also said that this would *just* affect timeshare owners and not full owners.  Did full owners get any kind of e-mail?  I was under the impression that hdmass is also a timeshare owner....



Well, between you, hdmass and I we represent the 3 different types of owners   We did get an email as well which basically said the same thing as hdmass has reported.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 6, 2011)

I didn't know you could convert float weeks to points, but keep your fixed weeks. I am a clubowner and was told you had to convert both. Maybe only family share owners can do that?


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## chris1gill (Jan 6, 2011)

mpumilia said:


> I didn't know you could convert float weeks to points, but keep your fixed weeks. I am a clubowner and was told you had to convert both. Maybe only family share owners can do that?



Full time owners in the rental pool can also convert any and all weeks as well just like the Family Share....


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## siesta (Jan 6, 2011)

this is great news for wyndham owners. this will make it 3 added to portfolio courtesy of the WAAM, and the way the economy is and wyndhams success at marketing the unsold units, there will surely be more to come.


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## shifty1981 (Jan 7, 2011)

Do any of you have any suggestions for someone looking to buy into Smuggs? Is it better to do it now or later? Things I'm concerned about are: 1 - the benefits package costs and what that includes; 2 - trading power, will this go up, down, the same, and 3 - is the UDI system similar to those on Christmas Village? thanks!


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 8, 2011)

Shifty, I thought you already bought Smugg's.

Having purchased a Shearwater before Wyndham took over, and using it a few times after, I was a little dismayed to discover that Wyndham Platinum members had their choice of units over owners.  One of the former PAHIO employees thought it was wrong and talked openly about it, and the owners revolted, taking those concerns to David Walters, the developer who turned it all over to Wyndham.  Now Wyndham owners have a better opportunity to get an exact unit assignment, as long as they idon't expect any type of upgrade, like we used to get as owners.  

So if you own a ground floor unit, don't expect a penthouse, which was common before for owners to get over exchangers.  Now Wyndham Platinum owners and all RCI exchangers get the better views.  You wonder how I know?  Our last stay was in a unit 302, and we exchanged into Shearwater.  Rick and I sat next to owners at the breakfast who all had ground floor units, same check-in day.  They were okay with their unit assignments, and when they asked if we owned at Shearwater, I said yes, because we do own, and I didn't want the owners to feel badly that we got the upgrade they always had before, and expected, over exchangers.  

We met several exchangers during that week, and many of them had penthouses.  Wyndham has its priorities.

The view you get at Shearwater is very important, although all units do have decent views.  I don't know if unit assignments matter to Smugg's owners, but it matters to Shearwater owners.


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## shifty1981 (Jan 8, 2011)

Hi. Thanks for the reply. No actually we ended deciding to move first so we delayed purchasing and the right deal didn't come along. We are a bit more secure in our budget now so we're looking into it again. 

As for Smuggs, I may be mistaken but I've never heard people talk about upgrading too often as owners or exchangers. In fact most of the time I hear people say "what they give you is what you get" when it comes to exchangers. As a potential owner my understanding is I get the same unit every year at that week except for the float week that's required. So I'm not too concerned about upgrading. That  being said I wonder if it reflects a culture shift in any of the amenities they're going to offer. For example I've heard the option to purchase the 20 year benefits package may not be there or not in it's current form. Will it be better or worse? I'm guessing slightly less cost, but significantly less benefits. We'll see. 



rickandcindy23 said:


> Shifty, I thought you already bought Smugg's.
> 
> Having purchased a Shearwater before Wyndham took over, and using it a few times after, I was a little dismayed to discover that Wyndham Platinum members had their choice of units over owners.  One of the former PAHIO employees thought it was wrong and talked openly about it, and the owners revolted, taking those concerns to David Walters, the developer who turned it all over to Wyndham.  Now Wyndham owners have a better opportunity to get an exact unit assignment, as long as they idon't expect any type of upgrade, like we used to get as owners.
> 
> ...


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## FLDVCFamily (Jan 8, 2011)

jjmanthei05 said:


> I would think for Wyndham to WAAM this property there would need to be a section of units that would be Wyndham's to sell. So for example when they did Reunion in Orlando I think they got like 30 units of all 52 weeks to sell and those just became the "Wyndham points" units. I don't think Wyndham would "fill in" open spots but I guess its possible.
> 
> Jason



There is a section of Reunion that is Wyndham owned?  Can it be booked on points?  I'd love to try that!


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## bnoble (Jan 8, 2011)

Yep.  There's a page for the resort at wyndhamvacationresorts.com now too.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 9, 2011)

I have exchanged back into Smuggs just once for an upgrade - 2 bdrm for a 3 bdrm - using a floater and going in Sept. I wonder if that will be possible after this Wyndham thing? Anyway, I think this proves that you should only buy what you will feel happy with long term and where you will go long term, instead of relying on trading, and trying to get upgrades, etc. Kepp it simple and rent when you want to go somewhere else once in a while if you can't exchange for what you would want.


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## Tia (Jan 9, 2011)

Anyone converting to points I'd get written in the contract they will take those points back in trade if down the road you want to use them for another purchase. I know buying from the developer is not ever recommended, but there is one resort that Wyndham came in similar to this, and offered points conversions but now has the resorts points blocked from being taken back in trade according to one owner who says he tried twice now. I referred him to TUG in case he has not been here before. 



3kids4me said:


> The e-mail does say that current owners have the opportunity to convert their units into Wyndham points, but it certainly seems like if one were going to convert to anything, it would be RCI points (which will still be an option).


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## antjmar (May 11, 2011)

*any new info?*

I just got a postcard from smugglers inviting me to visit the resort at a discounted price if I listen to a 120 minute timeshare presentation.... 
I just want to use my points to book a vacation!   Does anyone have any updates when this might happen?


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## rrlongwell (May 11, 2011)

Tia said:


> Anyone converting to points I'd get written in the contract they will take those points back in trade if down the road you want to use them for another purchase. I know buying from the developer is not ever recommended, but there is one resort that Wyndham came in similar to this, and offered points conversions but now has the resorts points blocked from being taken back in trade according to one owner who says he tried twice now. I referred him to TUG in case he has not been here before.



Not impossable.  Towers on the Grove in Myrtle Beach joined the Wyndham family of resorts under the WAAM program.  We bought one last year.  According to the sales staff of Wyndham, this year, Towers on the Grove is ineligable for trade credits within Wyndham.  He did say that he did not know if this prohibation will last nor when it may change.


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## ronparise (May 11, 2011)

Wyndham has figured out how to have product to sell and resorts to manage without putting up the money to buy and develop the real estate and build buildings. They call it WAAM  (Wyndham Asset Affiliation Model)

They find busted condo developments (timeshare or otherwise, and come in as the sales force for the banks that hold the mortgages and/or the original developers that are stuck with properties that they cant sell

Wyndham  becomes the sales force;  the units that they sell are sold as timeshares and the developer or bank gets their money and Wyndham keeps a commission (50% or so). Any units that were previously sold as whole ownership condos stay that way, and any timeshare weeks previously sold, stay the way they were, and although the owners may be offered the opportunity to convert their weeks to Wyndham points. they dont have to.

To say Wyndham "owns" these resorts is the wrong way to put it. They dont own the resort any more than I own the condos Im showing to a new client tomorrow as a real estate agent.  And of course Wyndham doesn't own any resorts if the succeed with their sales effort...we do

Realize too, that the entire property may  not be converted to Wyndham points. looking at the Wyndham directory  for Towers on the Grove, you see a picture of a big tower, Im guessing with hundreds of units, but the notes say that only a limited number of units are available to Wyndham points owners (more than 10 but less than 50)


Bottom line if I own at a place where the developer cant sell their inventory, Im concerned about the operation of my resort if someone, doesn't come in..  If Wyndham sees opportunity here, there is a problem that needs to be solved and they think they can solve it


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## JimMIA (May 12, 2011)

GrayFal said:


> From the link posted
> 
> *It is anticipated that Wyndham’s timeshare owners can begin vacationing at Smugglers’ Notch Vermont® Resort in the second quarter of 2011*.


Yeah, it does say that, but here we are *IN* the second quarter of 2011 and I don't see Smugglers Notch on the map or searchable by resort name yet.  _(Could be operator error -- I'm still learning to navigate the Wyndham site)_


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## Twinkstarr (May 12, 2011)

JimMIA said:


> Yeah, it does say that, but here we are *IN* the second quarter of 2011 and I don't see Smugglers Notch on the map or searchable by resort name yet.  _(Could be operator error -- I'm still learning to navigate the Wyndham site)_



I don't think it's operator error, I've been looking too and no Smuggs yet.

Though it's been a few weeks since I've checked for it.

Update: Just was on the Wyndham site, no Smuggs yet.


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