# Marriott Canyon Villas or Westin Kierland?



## cbcjs (Jun 10, 2007)

This question has been asked a few times but have a specific question dealing with these two resorts.

I'm on the verge of buying my first TS.

MCV - Platinum for 17,750 - MF 800.  Plan to use and rent out and use getaway weeks for vacations.

Kierland - Platinum for 22,000 - MF 1100.  Plan to do the same.

Marriotts have more resorts in the West and cheaper.
Westin - better resort but fewer choices and more expensive.

Which would you choose?


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## stevens397 (Jun 10, 2007)

I chose Kierland.  Already owned a Marriott and did not enjoy the trading process with Interval International.  I have been very fortunate in terms of trades, getting St. John my first year and Harborside the second!  As a resale purchaser at Kierland, you will retain the ability to trade internally.

In addition, the internal layour of the units was the clincher for me.  Canyon villas and all other Marriott lockoffs split into a one bedroom suite and a large hotel room.  Kierland splits into a large one bedroom suite and a small one bedroom suite - both have living rooms.  My wife can sleep til 9 and I'm usually up by 7.  Having a room to go to to read, watch TV, have a cup of coffee - well, it means the world to me and really does make it a vacation.  Every couple is different but to me, this is definitely worth the extra cost and the higher MF.

Good luck.


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## seenett (Jun 11, 2007)

I agree - the Westin's floorplan of two x 1 bedrooms beats out Marriott's 1 bedroom plus studio.

You may also want to buy the Westin to use yourself.  It is almost impossible to trade into a 2 bedroom Kielrand villa with II.  Because Starwood controls the deposits, they almost ALWAYS split the units that are given to II - so  only 1 bedrrom units will be available.  Starwood also controls the week numbers desposited, so the chances of prime winter weeks being available with II are also slim.

In contrast, Marriott owners choose the exact week and # of bedrooms to deposit with II.  Owners who want to trade are likely to deposit the best weeks they can reserve.


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## cbcjs (Jun 11, 2007)

*thanks for helpful info*

I think I'll go with Westin.  Thanks!


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 11, 2007)

Have you checked out Hyatt Pinon Point?


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## tomandrobin (Jun 11, 2007)

Also keep in mind that Marriott owners with mutlitle weeks will get an advantage over single unit owners when booking.


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## susiequeve (Jun 11, 2007)

I own Gold season at the Westin Kierland and just got back last night.  This property is absolutely beautiful and the Westin hospitality is top notch.  It's just the little things, like the heavenly bed, the bathrobes, the carafes of water they bring you at the pool, the friendliest people I've ever encountered on vacation.  If I didn't already have a Marriott I would have bought another Westin property.  We were HUGELY impressed with the total Westin experience.


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## dcdowden (Jun 11, 2007)

One more vote for WKV over the Marriott.  We went on the tour at both places in March 06, and I was astounded to hear that the Marriott was already completely booked for the same week in March 07.  The Marriott exchange system seems to incent everyone to try to obtain the very best week at their home resort in order to give them the best trade value in II - either for exchanging to another Marriott or to exchange outside.  The Starwood system doesn't seem to have that sort of internal gaming going on, so if you own at Kierland you should be able to get a reservation in prime time there during the home resort reservation window.  We were also very impressed with the Westin property and the room layout.  The smaller Marriott side of the L/O was just a large hotel room while the Westin is still a very nice suite with a balcony and even washer/dryer.  We did buy resale at WKV and enjoyed our week there in March 07.
Doug


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## cbcjs (Jun 11, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your help.

So here is our plan.  I'll put it out there and tell me the truth - I need it and can handle it. 

Purchase Westin Kierland Platinum for $21,500-$22,500

Year 1 - Rent it out (Feb-Mar) 08 for $3500 - $6000

     Use the money for a 2bd getaway week for family 

Year 2 - Enjoy Kierland


Year 3 - Rent out one bedroom (larger one) $2500
            II the smaller portion to NCV 2bd

Year 4 - Trade via II to WKORV or MOC.

Is this plan realistic?

Thanks again!


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 11, 2007)

You are over-estimating the rental value.

For 2008 - your 12 month Owners window has already passed and your 8 month window in some cases has also passed.

The only weeks that may have high rental value are the ones adjacent to the 2008 Superbowl (2/4/08) which the 8-month window just passed (if I calculate correctly)

Why use II for WKORV? - wouldn't you be using SVN instead?


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## cbcjs (Jun 11, 2007)

I did miss the Feb/Mar dates but if I buy soon, will I be able to find an open week or am I closed out completely?

Forgot about SVN. How feasible is a trade from kierland to WKORV?

Thanks


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## Stefa (Jun 11, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> I did miss the Feb/Mar dates but if I buy soon, will I be able to find an open week or am I closed out completely?
> 
> Forgot about SVN. How feasible is a trade from kierland to WKORV?
> 
> Thanks



With SVN all weeks with the same staroption value trade the same.   It doesn't matter where you own.  High demand weeks will be hard to get in Maui just like they are anywhere else, but if you are flexible it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Stefa (Jun 11, 2007)

Some of your trades may be unrealistic if you are planning to use II to get into Marriotts during peak times.  With SVN, Starwood chooses the week to deposit with II, so you can't count on depositing a prime week and getting top trade value.  Also, Marriott owners have an internal preference with II when trading into other Marriotts.

We decided to buy both Starwood and Marriott for this reason.  We went for two EOY's.


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## DavidnRobin (Jun 11, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> I did miss the Feb/Mar dates but if I buy soon, will I be able to find an open week or am I closed out completely?
> 
> Forgot about SVN. How feasible is a trade from kierland to WKORV?
> 
> Thanks




We bought (1Bd Premium/Plat) and closed in Nov'06 and reserved late Mar'07 (Spring Training) - not an issue.


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## stevens397 (Jun 11, 2007)

cbcgs-

Sounds like you need to go to this site on TUG and learn a bit more about the Starwood program:

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

All of the info that you're slowly getting here will be laid out there.  Among the things you'll find out:

1. trades to the top Starwood locations require flexibility and luck
2. trading a Starwood through II  - there are certain problems with this that are too involved to get into here
3. Rental - prices you see online are often "asking" prices.  There is no guarantee you'll do that well.  That said, I did rent my larger side this year for $2,500.  You should have no problem recovering your maintenance fee and making some profit but don't think of it as an income center.  Compared to a hotel room at Kierland, a two bedroom suite at the villas is worth a fortune, but not everyone knows about it and there are not that many renters.  In addition, you may not get a bite until late in the process so it can require a lot of patience.

That said, using it every other year and renting it every other year can certainly work.


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## seenett (Jun 11, 2007)

Just a note about Canyon Villas that has not been addressed yet- 

My wife and I stayed in the lock-off portion a few years ago, primarily to see how it compared to Kierland.  We had two big compalints with the lockoff:

1.  There is a big frosted plate glass window next to the entry, but it had no blinds or curtains.  It got very bright in the room very early in the morning.

2.  It had no full length mirror in the bathroom or anywhere else.  This was the wife's observation, I would not have noticed!


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## cbcjs (Jun 12, 2007)

*a bit intimidating*

There is so much info and it is a bit intimidating for newbies...

I think I understand most of it but won't fully understand until I have "deposited" a week a few times and have traded to another property both through SVN & II.

Two questions and appreciate any help...

I'm buying a platinum season so does that mean when I go through SVN, they will deposit a platinum week?  

If I bank/deposit a 1 bd - will I get a 2bd in Marriott Newport Coast Villas via II?  Will I get a 2bd in any other resorts that do not have 1 bedrooms?

Thanks!


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## Stefa (Jun 12, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> If I bank/deposit a 1 bd - will I get a 2bd in Marriott Newport Coast Villas via II?  Will I get a 2bd in any other resorts that do not have 1 bedrooms?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, if the unit you want is available and you have enough trade power.


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## saluki (Jun 12, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> There is so much info and it is a bit intimidating for newbies...
> I'm buying a platinum season so does that mean when I go through SVN, they will deposit a platinum week? Thanks!



If you are going through SVN, you don't really deposit anything per se. You can either book your size & season of unit between 8 & 12 months out or use your number of StarOptions to make a reservation at another SVO property (starting at 8 months out).


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## seenett (Jun 12, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> I'm buying a platinum season so does that mean when I go through SVN, they will deposit a platinum week?



With SVN, you are not depositing a week - you are just making a confirmed reservation at a resort (yours or a different SVN resort).  I'm sure you knew that, but justed wanted to be clear.

With II, you must go through SVN to deposit.  Unlike Marriott (but just like a few other developers), SVN will "deposit" a week into your II account.  That is the simple answer.  The more complicated answer is that SVN also has a "master" account with II, which contains hundreds (thousands?) of SVN weeks previously deposited.  SVN will transfer one of those weeks into your account, which you will be able to trade with.

The advantage to this system is that because the week they will assign to you has been deposited into II at an earlier date, you will never have to worry about making a "short dated" (i.e. lesser demand) deposit.  For example, it is now June 2007.  If you have procrastinated making a reservation, or forgot, or had a reservation but your plans have changed - it won't matter even though there are only 6 months left in the year.  Starwood will assign you a week from earlier (or later) in the year that has already been deposited, and that week will have been deposited well in advance.  If you owned at a resort system that did not do this, you would be seriously behind the eight ball in June 2007.  You would have to make a reservation for a week at your resort (assuming they are not all booked) and immediately call II to deposit that week.  The best case scenario is that you get a high demand week (not likely this late in the year) at the end of the year (December).  Your week will have a "shelf life" of six months (June-December).  As a general rule, weeks start to lose their "trading power" 10 months in advance.  In other words, the same week at the same resort will have different trading power if one is deposited 10 months in advance, and one is deposited 3 months in advance.  Once a week is deposited, the time value is locked in, so it won't continue to lose value.  BUT I DIGRESS!

The disadvantage to the SVN system (_and the answer to your question_), is you are NOT guaranteed SVN will give you a Platinum week to trade with - you are not even guaranteed a week at your home resort!  SVN plays the same over simplified color system that II does.  They say the will give you a "red" week, because all red weeks are the same (NOT).  Don't believe that a July Kierland week s has the same trade power as a February Harborside week - even though they are both "red".  By asking nicely, you might get SVN to give you a "better" week than they one they offer you.


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## cbcjs (Jun 14, 2007)

*let's say...rental question*

Let's say I put up my westin kierland for rent and get no takers.

At what point is it too late for me to deposit into star options?

Can I do it a week before my ownership week?

Safeguard just in case I can't rent it out.

How great a benefit is this - if it is even possible.

And if I trade via II a week before my ownership week, do I still get credited with a week already deposited earlier by Starwood.

And how great a benefit is this?

Thanks for all your help.  I'm finding myself researching and coming back to this thread to re-read all the posts and links.


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## saluki (Jun 14, 2007)

cbcjs-

The Starwood sticky will provide answers on some or all of these questions.


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## cbcjs (Jun 14, 2007)

*starwood sticky*

I am a fairly educated guy and have read the starwood sticky
several times but....

for someone new to this TS thing - it is difficult to be sure that my interpretation and application of the "starwood contract" is correct.

Want to "test out" my interpretation and application in a real world situation before I jump in and purchase to use, exchange and rent.

Just want you to know I'm not just asking for help without doing my own due diligence.

Thanks for your help!


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## saluki (Jun 14, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> I am a fairly educated guy and have read the starwood sticky
> several times but....
> 
> for someone new to this TS thing - it is difficult to be sure that my interpretation and application of the "starwood contract" is correct.
> ...



I appreciate that the whole thing can be confusing. Your question regarding the time period to convert to StarPoints (SPG hotel points) is very specifically addressed in the sticky, though. You wrote "deposit to StarOptions" but I believe you meant StarPoints, right? Bear in mind that you can only convert to StarPoints if you buy from the developer.

Keep reading, it will start to come together. I know that it took a while for me.


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## seenett (Jun 14, 2007)

cbcjs said:


> At what point is it too late for me to deposit into star options?
> 
> Can I do it a week before my ownership week?



"deposit into StarOptions" - do you mean cancel your exisiting reservation (that you could not rent) and use StarOptions to reserve at another Starwood resort?  If so, you can do this right up until the check-in day.  You might have a problem reserving something else, especially if it is late in the year.  There is a $29 (?) fee for cancelling and re-booking.  You also lose your "home resort preference period" (reserving 8-12 months in advance) for that year if you cancel a reservation.  You will only be able to make a new reservation during the "network options period" (8 months in advance).  If there are less than 8 months remaining in the year anyway, it is a moot point.



cbcjs said:


> And if I trade via II a week before my ownership week, do I still get credited with a week already deposited earlier by Starwood.
> 
> And how great a benefit is this?



Yes.  In July 2003, I had to cancel my Harborside reservation (I owned there at the time) for November 2003.  My schedule didn't allow me to travel for the rest year, so I asked them to give me a II deposit instead.  The depsoit I was given was also a Harborside week, but it was an April 2003 week.  Although that week had already passed, it had been given to II much earlier and the week was not clasified as a short-dated deposit.

I don't believe there is a fee to cancel because you wouldn't be making a new reservation.

The big benefit is that you do not have the traditional timelines for depositing, thus it is more flexible.  

The down side is that you may be given a "weaker" week from a less demanded Starwood resort/season.

Your deposit will have a shorter trading life if you are given a week from earlier in the year.  This is because deposits expire 24 months after the use date. Let's say it is now June 2007 and you want your 2007 SVN week deposited with II. A Jan. 2007 week will expire in Jan. 2009 and a Dec. 2007 week will expire in Dec. 2009.


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## cbcjs (Jun 14, 2007)

*thanks!*

Thanks Seenett...

Your answers answered my questions to the T.

I don't know if other timeshares have this but the ability to switch to staroptions
at the last minute and go to another resort is a huge benefit for me.

Less stress in trying to "rent" especially since I hear that many renters
seek out resorts within 60-90 days of their vacation.

I'll buy resale so star points is not an option for me.

Another advantage is the ability to go II and possibly bank an earlier date.

Seems to me that the Westin is a clear winner.  

Pros

 - 2 bedroom lockoffs (both 1 bedrooms)
 - Better resorts
 - SVN advantages
 - II advantage

Cons (opposed to Marriott)

 - Pricier
 - Fewer resorts (for now)

Thanks!


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## pointsjunkie (Jun 14, 2007)

do they tell you what week they are depositing so you know when your 2 year window is over?


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## Stefa (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm not sure what you mean by "II advantage."  I'd much rather deposite my Marriott with II then my VV week.  The only advantage I can see to SVN is if you are forced to make a last minute deposite.  (Of course, I bought my weeks primarily as traders, so that may make a difference as I will be depositing my Marriott one year out.)

A couple of things to keep in mind are:

Marriott is developing an internal exchange system which may make it a better or worse option down the road.

You posted your question on the board where the Starwood owners, as opposed to the Marriott owners, are more likely to hang out, so the responses you are getting probably reflect this.


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## cbcjs (Jun 14, 2007)

Stefa said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "II advantage."  I'd much rather deposite my Marriott with II then my VV week.  The only advantage I can see to SVN is if you are forced to make a last minute deposite.  (Of course, I bought my weeks primarily as traders, so that may make a difference as I will be depositing my Marriott one year out.)
> 
> A couple of things to keep in mind are:
> 
> ...



My thinking on the II advantage is that if I bank my westin week in II, because of SVN, they deposit a earlier week, giving me greater trading power.  I think...

About Westin bias:  Right...I need to consider that 

Stefa, you have been a great help to someone new to the world of Timeshares.  I will pass it that helpfulness on to other newbs who come after me!:whoopie:


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## seenett (Jun 15, 2007)

cbcjs said:
			
		

> My thinking on the II advantage is that if I bank my westin week in II, because of SVN, they deposit a earlier week, giving me greater trading power.  I think...



An early deposit is only a part of the "secret formula" for trading power.  Remember that demand for a particular week is the primary factor.  Since Starwood can give you any week they want to, you may very well end up with a weaker week than you own or have already reserved.

Say you do buy a platinum Kierland week and you reserve the week of Christmas 2007 to rent out.  That is a pretty good week.  If you do not get a renter by mid December, you CAN have Starwood give you a II week instead.  This may very well be an August week at Mission Hills.  That is a "less popular" week,  even though it may have been depsoited many months earlier. I posted earlier in this thread that if you ask politely and put on the charm, you may get a rep on the phone that will tell you if any better II weeks are available.  But by December, there will be many fewer choices than earlier in the year.

My advice for renting is that you choose a good week early in the year, like a February PGA event week or a March Spring Training week.  If you have to cancel and deposit, you will have more choices than at the end of the year.

Stefa made a good point about a "II advantage".  It is in the eye of the beholder.  Marriott owners can pick the exact week to reserve and deposit into II, but if they tried to rent their week and had no offers a few weeks in advance, they would have a very short-dated week to deposit.


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