# [ 2014 ] Revisions to PIC program



## Bigrob (Jan 19, 2014)

Recently someone posted the information that you now have one additional month to decide whether to deposit your PIC weeks for points or not.

There is new information I just received that indicates that ALL weeks are now being calculated as red weeks. This could be a benefit to folks who own "mistakes". What I didn't hear was whether that would be applied retroactively to anyone who had already PIC'ed an off-season week. The PIC program still maxes out at 2 3BR units.


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## Pcbdsg (Jan 19, 2014)

You can also go through "PIC Express" and get VIP credits for properties owned that are through another company or a points resort in RCI


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## Bigrob (Jan 19, 2014)

Pcbdsg said:


> You can also go through "PIC Express" and get VIP credits for properties owned that are through another company or a points resort in RCI



That's new on me... do you have any more information on that?


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## Pcbdsg (Jan 20, 2014)

You can PIC in up to 2 properties that are not RCI weeks and receive VIP credits up to 254k each. These are not used as travel points but can be used to put you over a VIP level.


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## Bigrob (Jan 20, 2014)

Pcbdsg said:


> You can PIC in up to 2 properties that are not RCI weeks and receive VIP credits up to 254k each. These are not used as travel points but can be used to put you over a VIP level.



Are Wyndham-affiliated resorts still not allowed, or could they be used for this purpose too?


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## lcml11 (Jan 20, 2014)

Pcbdsg said:


> You can PIC in up to 2 properties that are not RCI weeks and receive VIP credits up to 254k each. These are not used as travel points but can be used to put you over a VIP level.



The PICed Resorts have to be on the RCI Weeks program list and not the RCI points list.  If a resorts moves from the weeks list to the points list, the PIC rights can be lost.

I am not sure what you mean that they are not used as travel points.  Each year, for a small fee, that years week can be converted to Wyndham Club Plus/Access points for use within the Wyndham Club Plus system.

I think you can do this for the current year plus the following year.


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## ronparise (Jan 20, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> The PICed Resorts have to be on the RCI Weeks program list and not the RCI points list.  If a resorts moves from the weeks list to the points list, the PIC rights can be lost.
> 
> I am not sure what you mean that they are not used as travel points.  Each year, for a small fee, that years week can be converted to Wyndham Club Plus/Access points for use within the Wyndham Club Plus system.
> 
> I think you can do this for the current year plus the following year.



My understanding is that the resort can become points affiliated but as long as your week isnt converted to points you can stay with PIC


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## Bigrob (Jan 20, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> The PICed Resorts have to be on the RCI Weeks program list and not the RCI points list.  If a resorts moves from the weeks list to the points list, the PIC rights can be lost.
> 
> I am not sure what you mean that they are not used as travel points.  Each year, for a small fee, that years week can be converted to Wyndham Club Plus/Access points for use within the Wyndham Club Plus system.
> 
> I think you can do this for the current year plus the following year.



I think this poster is talking about something that is a revision to the PIC program that enables folks to PIC weeks that were previously ineligible. However, the weeks are not "convertible for points" - they are only used to count toward your VIP status.

Will have to see if this information is verified by others as it is news to me.


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## Bigrob (Jan 20, 2014)

ronparise said:


> My understanding is that the resort can become points affiliated but as long as your week isnt converted to points you can stay with PIC



Ron's right, of course... PIC rights are not lost when a resort converts to points. The conversion of individual owners units is what can cause a loss of PIC rights. If you bought a week you can't be forced to convert to points.


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## Bigrob (Jan 21, 2014)

Upon further review, not sure PIC express is going to help anyone much. Apparently it is just Wyndham's latest gimmick to give buyers a taste of VIP. The timeshares "PIC'd" in this way are NOT permanent - the "ghost" points only count toward VIP for 5 years and then run out.


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## Pcbdsg (Jan 21, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> Upon further review, not sure PIC express is going to help anyone much. Apparently it is just Wyndham's latest gimmick to give buyers a taste of VIP. The timeshares "PIC'd" in this way are NOT permanent - the "ghost" points only count toward VIP for 5 years and then run out.



Correct, also PIC Plus was revised, all weeks are now considered red weeks.


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## Bigrob (Jan 21, 2014)

Pcbdsg said:


> Correct, also PIC Plus was revised, all weeks are now considered red weeks.



Yup, that's what I started the thread with. I wonder if they'll be generous and apply that retroactively to anyone who PICed an off-season week?:hysterical:


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## cyseitz (Jan 22, 2014)

Is there a website about "PIC Express"?  I'd like to read about it.


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## Bourne (Jan 22, 2014)

Was at Glacier Canyon over the long weekend. 

The good old spin machine stated that you could sign up for PIC Express without buying a contract. 

Even if it is for 5 yrs, now that is something I would like to see


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## cyseitz (Jan 27, 2014)

*What qualifies for a PIC*

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this for me.  I called Wyndham Corporate today to find out what resort would qualify for the PIC program so that I can upgrade to Platinum.  
I didn't get any guidance at all and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what to look for in shopping around for a week that I want to PIC.
I know it has to be a redweek. Is the other qualifier that it has to be in the RCI exchange book?  If you were buying a week just for the purpose of PICing it what would you buy?


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## Bigrob (Jan 27, 2014)

cyseitz said:


> I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this for me.  I called Wyndham Corporate today to find out what resort would qualify for the PIC program so that I can upgrade to Platinum.
> I didn't get any guidance at all and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what to look for in shopping around for a week that I want to PIC.
> I know it has to be a redweek. Is the other qualifier that it has to be in the RCI exchange book?  If you were buying a week just for the purpose of PICing it what would you buy?



Up until recently, the PIC rule was you needed a 3BR RED week. But according to what I have heard, that has changed and all weeks are considered "red" now for purposes of PIC-ing, meaning that the standard points values for weeks are as follows:
2BR - 154K 
3BR - 254K.
I'm not listing 1BR because I don't think it makes sense to PIC a 1BR. 

As far as what is eligible, it has to be an RCI exchange, but cannot have been converted to RCI points. That's at the UNIT level, not the resort level - so if there is an unconverted week at a resort that now has points (as well as weeks) that week would still be eligible. 

While it is possible to search far and wide for the lowest MF's associated with a 3BR, that might not be the best idea. The VIP program benefits could change at any time and the benefits derived may become diluted, rendering the program less valuable to you. It would be best if the underlying week was either rentable or had some underlying value to you. I considered, for example, a 3BR week 2000 miles away because it had low maintenance fees. But I ended up deciding to pony up an extra $200/year to make sure I had a week that I could use, if I didn't decide to make the investment required with Wyndham to PIC a week.

And that gets us to the bottom line - is it worth the price of admission (retail purchase of minimum package) to get to platinum by PICing? For most, the answer will be no.


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## cyseitz (Jan 27, 2014)

Thank you Eric for that detailed answer.  I appreciate it!


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## ronparise (Jan 27, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> Up until recently, the PIC rule was you needed a 3BR RED week. But according to what I have heard, that has changed and all weeks are considered "red" now for purposes of PIC-ing, meaning that the standard points values for weeks are as follows:
> 2BR - 154K
> 3BR - 254K.
> I'm not listing 1BR because I don't think it makes sense to PIC a 1BR.
> ...



Unless you are already a Silver VIP it doesnt make sense to go for Gold or Platinum by pic'ing

254 X 2 = 508   Gold requires 700k so a 200k  point ($35000) developer purchase is needed for gold and 500k ($7500) for Platinum. There are some  that can use their account to get a fair return on that kind of money, but Id bet, not many


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## Denkro (Mar 21, 2014)

If somebody has 605k purchased from Wyndham and a week at Pahio Shearwater. Can they PIC the week at Shearwater for 400K which is what it is worth? This would give them Platinum status not just Gold.


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## tschwa2 (Mar 21, 2014)

Denkro said:


> If somebody has 605k purchased from Wyndham and a week at Pahio Shearwater. Can they PIC the week at Shearwater for 400K which is what it is worth? This would give them Platinum status not just Gold.



You can't PIC Wyndham managed weeks (weeks that are already in the Wyndham system even if they are deeded weeks that have not been converted.)


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## Denkro (Mar 21, 2014)

What are the best weeks to PIC right now? Ron had mentioned one last year I believe. That had $2/1000 maintenance fees. I wonder if that is still an option?


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## Bigrob (Mar 21, 2014)

Denkro said:


> What are the best weeks to PIC right now? Ron had mentioned one last year I believe. That had $2/1000 maintenance fees. I wonder if that is still an option?



The one he mentioned was Angel Fire, which is an affiliated resort and not eligible. It's your choice, of course, but understand VIP benefits and eligibility change frequently so I don't recommend chasing the lowest MF for just pic purposes. It should have some intrinsic value for you. Low current MFs could also be a harbinger of upcoming special assessments, removal from RCI, or other issues that could impact your long-term results.

That being said, there are probably still a few choices for 3brs with MFs around $500/week.


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## Bigrob (Mar 21, 2014)

Denkro said:


> If somebody has 605k purchased from Wyndham and a week at Pahio Shearwater. Can they PIC the week at Shearwater for 400K which is what it is worth? This would give them Platinum status not just Gold.



You can't pic it but with a Hawaii purchase you may be able to convert it. Do you already own a Shearwater week?


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## Denkro (Mar 21, 2014)

Do you know which resorts specifically are best for this?


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## ronparise (Mar 21, 2014)

Denkro said:


> Do you know which resorts specifically are best for this?



3 bedroom with a low mf

for example  a week with $500 annual mf...add the $90 pic fee and I think the $140 program fee and you total annual expense is $730

divide by 254 and you get 2.87/1000 points


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## Denkro (Mar 22, 2014)

Thanks. Yes, I own a 2br annual Shearwater.


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## lcml11 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> You can't pic it but with a Hawaii purchase you may be able to convert it. Do you already own a Shearwater week?



Anyone know the current conversion rate without a purchase, if that option is still there?


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Anyone know the current conversion rate without a purchase, if that option is still there?



At least With the Pahio resorts they wont convert without a purchase. and the last time I asked you could assign 4 weeks to the trust with a purchase of 203000 points.  Different from last year when I did 3 with a purchase of 63000

I was also told that conversions (or assignments as they call them) of any fixed weeks require a new purchase now, (ie no cash deals at $2500 a week, like they used to do) But I havent confirmed that, by talking to more than one salesman or trying to do it


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## lcml11 (Mar 22, 2014)

ronparise said:


> At least With the Pahio resorts they wont convert without a purchase. and the last time I asked you could assign 4 weeks to the trust with a purchase of 203000 points.  Different from last year when I did 3 with a purchase of 63000
> 
> I was also told that conversions (or assignments as they call them) of any fixed weeks took a new purchase now, (ie no cash deals at $2500 a week, like they used to do) But I havent confirmed that, by talking to more than one salesman or trying to do it



Thanks for the info.

If this is true, not a good thing for the Old Fairfield Community.  Especially, the owners of fixed or floating weeks.


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## Bigrob (Mar 22, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Anyone know the current conversion rate without a purchase, if that option is still there?



Never been able to convert PAHIO without a purchase that I am aware of. As Ron says the purchase requirements have gone up, making it a lot less attractive to convert. Annual Shearwater weeks with their high point values are the best to convert, but converting a single week I think still requires a purchase upwards of $15K. 

A conversion of a Wyndham fixed week requires a minimum purchase of 49K points, I believe. Like Ron, I haven't explored the former conversion option with corporate sales, but I had also heard that option was no longer available.

The answer Ron gave is corrent - you want a 3BR with low MFs - but I think the OP was asking which resorts fit that criteria. It could be a long, time-consuming process to optimize that search, and you would want to perform some due diligence to confirm that the current low MF's are sustainable and not the result of an under-reserved Special Assessment time-bomb about to go off. You need an RCI-affiliated resort but the unit must be a fixed or floating week, not converted to RCI points. 

An example that "fits" is currently listed on eBay. There is an unconverted 3BR at Gatlinburg Town Square with MF's of $568. It's not the lowest but it's pretty good. It's available with no closing costs or transfer fees. It's a floating week with summer weeks blocked off, but the recent change means season doesn't matter any more. Be careful when you look that you are looking at annuals, not biennials. Generally speaking the 3BRs with lowest MFs are located in Virginia, Tennessee, Arizona, New Mexico, New Hampshire (a few rare ones).


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## lcml11 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> Never been able to convert PAHIO without a purchase that I am aware of. As Ron says the purchase requirements have gone up, making it a lot less attractive to convert. Annual Shearwater weeks with their high point values are the best to convert, but converting a single week I think still requires a purchase upwards of $15K.
> 
> A conversion of a Wyndham fixed week requires a minimum purchase of 49K points, I believe. Like Ron, I haven't explored the former conversion option with corporate sales, but I had also heard that option was no longer available.
> 
> ...



Just found out that if the fixed week was bought from the developer, than it can be converted for a fee.  If it is a re-sale unit than it cannot be converted.

If a developer purchased week, it cannot be done without a new purchase by the sites.  It has to be done through corporate sales.

I guess the march to continue the segregation of types of ownership and related benefits marches on.


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## ronparise (Mar 22, 2014)

lcml11 said:


> Just found out that if the fixed week was bought from the developer, than it can be converted for a fee.  If it is a re-sale unit than it cannot be converted.
> 
> If a developer purchased week, it cannot be done without a new purchase by the sites.  It has to be done through corporate sales.



Good deal...let us know how it turned out,  ie what was the fee, did you get a discount on the second one, etc


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## lcml11 (Mar 22, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Good deal...let us know how it turned out,  ie what was the fee, did you get a discount on the second one, etc



Mine are already converted.  Two I inherited.  One was $89 dollars to convert, took a long term lease at Sands Ocean Club (a former Fairfield Unit that was under Wyndham control), and a small Towers on the Grove new contract (80 thousand some points).  It was a package deal.  I only have the one PIC which is the Sands Ocean Club one.  Actually, the deal involving the Westwinds conversion was a great deal from beginning to end.  Bought a re-sale Westwinds from Wyndham for $700 dollars plus about $250 in closing costs then converted it to points with the Towers on the Grove contract.  Just checked E-Bay, I did not see any Westwind contracts currently for sale trying to get a comp against what I paid.

Posters that talk of re-sales through Wyndham are right, it is a avenue that can be done for a lot less than the asking price for the New Timeshare Sales with the added major benefit that these are considered developer points for VIP purposes.

A Wyndham sales person just happened to call me today from Corporate sales and I asked her.  I have no reason to not to believe her especially in light of what other posters are saying.  All sources seem to be sales based as a input source.

To the extent can the Resort sales offices sell the conversion without a new contract, I think that is fairly certain that they cannot.


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## Whoozr (Jan 20, 2015)

*PIC Plus Program*

http://wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_PIC_Plus_Brochure.pdf

I did an owner's workshop this weekend and my only question was about the PIC program.  PIC Plus did not come up the only thing that was mentioned was the need to purchase a new contract with a minimum of 105K points.


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