# Mexico Unsafe



## Kauai Kid (Dec 23, 2010)

The Texas Department of Public Safety is advising tourists not to travel to Mexico because of safety concerns.  No ifs ands or buts.

Texas DPS urges holiday travelers to avoid Mexico
0/5 rating
Print Article
Friday, December 17 2010
The Texas Department of Public Safety is warning Texans to avoid traveling to Mexico during the holidays.

DPS Director Steven C. McCraw says Mexican drug cartel-related violence continues in northern Mexico border cities as well as in popular tourist towns, such as Acapulco and Monterrey.

McCraw says the safety of holiday travelers "cannot be guaranteed if they venture into Mexico."

Authorities say kidnappings, cartel turf wars and battles between cartels and law enforcement have escalated in recent years.

Although McCraw says his agency knows that people safely travel and vacation in Mexico each day, the increasing risk of violence can't be denied. He said innocent bystanders aren't always spared.

DPS is advising travelers to check the U.S. State Department website for up-to-date information about security concerns in Mexico.

(Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press.  All Rights Reserved.)

«back


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## aliikai2 (Dec 23, 2010)

*Shark Bites Surfer On Kauai*

Danger stay out of the Hawaiian Islands!!!!!

Why did you post this? 

Everyone is aware of the ongoing issues around the border , but the major tourist areas like Cancun, Puerto Vallarta , Mazatlan are as safe if not safer than any major US city.

If this warning was issued in Texas ( a border state) to it's residents, that would be traveling to the border areas, then it makes sense. 

To post it here on the Mexico travel board that is used by those of us that enjoy Mexico is just rabble rousing.

Greg



Kauai Kid said:


> The Texas Department of Public Safety is advising tourists not to travel to Mexico because of safety concerns.  No ifs ands or buts.
> 
> Texas DPS urges holiday travelers to avoid Mexico
> 0/5 rating
> ...


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## K&PFitz (Dec 23, 2010)

From what I've read in more expansive articles is that the warning is intended for the many Texas residents that drive across the border to visit relatives over the holidays.  They are suggesting cars travel together and not during the night in areas along the border where drug violence has occurred.  

All makes good sense to me.  But I have yet to see a warning about getting on a plane and flying to Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo or any other tourist area.  I, for one, will feel as safe in Cancun when I'm there in five weeks as I would going out to dinner or shopping in my home town.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 23, 2010)

*How about the real info...*



Kauai Kid said:


> DPS is advising travelers to check the U.S. State Department website for up-to-date information about security concerns in Mexico.
> «back



Okay...so let's do that...
Click here for the full report http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_4755.html

Contains very specific information on various states/cities as well as border areas.  

Excerpts:

_... 

Millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year.  This includes tens of thousands who cross the border every day for study, tourism or business and at least one million U.S. citizens who live in Mexico.  The Mexican government makes a considerable effort to protect U.S. citizens and other visitors to major tourist destinations.   Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico do not see the levels of drug-related violence and crime reported in the border region and in areas along major drug trafficking routes.  Nevertheless, crime and violence are serious problems.  While most victims of violence are Mexican citizens associated with criminal activity, the security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well.   

It is imperative that U.S. citizens understand the risks involved in travel to Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and who to contact if one becomes a victim of crime or violence.  Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where criminal activity might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.  
...

Recent violent attacks and persistent security concerns have prompted the U.S. Embassy to urge U.S. citizens to defer unnecessary travel to Michoacán and Tamaulipas, to parts of Chihuahua, Sinaloa, Durango, and Coahuila, (see details below) and to advise U.S. citizens residing or traveling in those areas to exercise extreme caution.   _

Me?  Trips in Feb and March to Cabo...

Safe travels. 

bbb


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Dec 23, 2010)

I know people are touchy about mentioning violence in Mexico, but here in the LA area a local teacher and school board member was kidnapped and killed out of a restaurant. (Not sure I remember which city). There have been over 30,000 deaths in the past few years due to this violence, so I don't think posting this is alarmist and you can choose to ignore the warnings or not, as you choose.
Liz


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## PigsDad (Dec 23, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I know people are touchy about mentioning violence in Mexico, but here in the LA area a local teacher and school board member was kidnapped and killed out of a restaurant.


And people are shot and killed in every major city across the US.  You point is???  

Kurt


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## siesta (Dec 23, 2010)

without a question, mexico has been safer for us tourists in the past.  But that doesn't mean it is flat out dangerous for us. This warning was most likely to warn local texans about driving over the border to visit.

Since I love mexico, and advocate safe and responsible travel there, I will say this and not fear anyone thinking I'm an alarmist.  Acapulco is becomming disputed territory, although primarily the ones that should be concerned are those involved in drugs, one simply cannot turn a blind eye to the potential. 

There are so many beautiful tourist destinations in mexico, that although have seen a sharp increase in crime, remain safe for us tourists.  However, acapulco is becomming more and more dangereous with the impending turf war that will just get worse in my opinion.  Here is an excerpt from a pro mexican publication on 11/15/10:

"Acapulco has seen a wave of executions in the past few weeks. There are rumors that The Hector Beltran Leyva cartel has formed an alliance with the other cartels including los Zetas to fight La Familia Michoacana and the remnants of La Barbie's organization (which has further splintered and are fighting amongst themselves). "

This, of course, is all due to the mexican military killing or capturing the leaders of cartels, which causes others to move in on their turf at their moment of weakness, or even internal conflict due to leadership change.

I was in mazatlan in october, felt very safe, even walking by myself in the wee hours in the morning.  I wish I could say the same about walking in downtown chicago at those hours.  I will be in cabo in march, can't wait.

edit: hawaii has a pretty serious meth problem, especially on honolulu. you should take precautions there as well. dog the bounty hunter can't catch them all ;P


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## siesta (Dec 23, 2010)

I think the texas warning correlates with this:

"FBI searches for San Marcos, Texas men, Chicago teen missing in Nuevo Laredo: Group had crossed border to shop, official says"

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/12/fbi-searches-for-san-marcos-texas-men.html

whoever spoke of the teacher being killed, I am willing to bet he was hispanic.


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## Conan (Dec 23, 2010)

> DPS Director Steven C. McCraw says the safety of holiday travelers "cannot be guaranteed if they venture into Mexico."


 
So the State of Texas no longer guarantees my safety in Mexico?  I hope they're still guaranteeing my safety in Texas!


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## Jaybee (Dec 23, 2010)

and us?.... Sirena del Mar in Cabo in Feb.  Ole!



[QUOTE:Me?  Trips in Feb and March to Cabo...
Safe travels. bbb[/QUOTE]


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## geoffb (Dec 23, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:
			
		

> I know people are touchy about mentioning violence in Mexico, but here in the LA area a local teacher and school board member was kidnapped and killed out of a restaurant. (Not sure I remember which city).


Ciudad Gomez Palacio in Durango state.



			
				Liz Wolf-Spada said:
			
		

> There have been over 30,000 deaths in the past few years due to this violence, so I don't think posting this is alarmist and you can choose to ignore the warnings or not, as you choose.


Yes, and we all know about it. And I doubt you'll find any of us in Durango.


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 23, 2010)

aliikai2 said:


> Danger stay out of the Hawaiian Islands!!!!!
> 
> Why did you post this?
> 
> ...



So Greg where is your proof that Cancun, Puerto Valarta, Mazatlan are as safe if not safer than any major US city?  At least I quoted a source--what is yours--personal opinion?  What major cities in the US are you checking the statistics on?
Read recently where there was a mass grave uncovered near Acapulco that contained the bodies of US citizens tourists who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Looks like there are others on the Mexico board who are at least somewhat concerned about the Mexican violence also.

If the Red Flags are up in Hawaii I sure wouldn't go in the water.  There are some flags flying in Mexico also.

Sorry I raised your blood pressure Greg by posting what was in the newspaper.

Sterling


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 23, 2010)

PigsDad said:


> And people are shot and killed in every major city across the US.  You point is???
> 
> Kurt



I believe her point is that the probability of violence is higher in Mexico.

Sterling


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## PigsDad (Dec 23, 2010)

Kauai Kid said:


> I believe her point is that the probability of violence is higher in Mexico.
> 
> Sterling


Do you have any proof to back up that statement?  Please provide links to statistics that there is more violence per capita in Mexico than there is in major US cities (as was the point of my post).

Kurt


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## easyrider (Dec 23, 2010)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/out...tourist-zones-much-safer-than-many-in-us.html

"Among its findings: The state of Baja California Sur, which includes some of my favorite destinations such as Cabo San Lucas, La Paz and Loreto, has a homicide rate 26 times lower than Orlando, 18 times lower than Miami, 17 times lower than West Palm Beach and 12 times lower than Tampa and Honolulu."


This discussion of safety in Mexico is a recurring theme and just as when something is said over and over some people will believe its true. I personally know people that wouldn't go to Mexico for any reason because of the Swine Flu and drug gangs. That is their prerogative.

As for me and 20+ million other tourist that go to Mexico each year and the estimated 1 million foreigner residents that live there year round, we feel its reasonably safe to be in Mexico. Safer than most of our own cities.

There isn't many tourists killed by drug lords in Mexico. On the other hand , there are tourists killed in the USA every year. 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE2DE1130F936A2575AC0A965958260

BTW my wifes cousin is trying to get a green card to retire in Bucerias. Not a bad idea.


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## easyrider (Dec 23, 2010)

Kauai Kid said:


> I believe her point is that the probability of violence is higher in Mexico.
> 
> Sterling



The probability of violence is higher in the Northern Mexico border states if you are directly or indirectly involved in criminal activity or law enforcement. Indirect consequences are the killing of family members to prove a point. 

In the USA you might get shot by some drug impaired criminal for no reason at all. Maybe you were wearing the wrong shade of red or blue, who knows.


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## Kauai Kid (Dec 24, 2010)

Here is a link to increasing Mexico Tourism to balance my initial post.  Austin American Statesman 12/24/10 Amid violence, Mexico tourism increases and Cancun area named one of top travel destinations of the year.

http://www.statesman.com/life/trave...xtype=rss_ece_frontpage&viewAsSinglePage=true



Sterling


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## Aussiedog (Dec 24, 2010)

*Friends of my sister murdered Wednesday in Mexico*

But you won't hear about it in the news.

Friends of my sister from Sacramento, a family of 5, parents and 3 girls, all US citizens, were on their way south for the holidays.  They decided to take their own extended cab pick-up truck with California plates so they would have transportation while they were there.  They planned their route carefully so that they would stay on main roads in well-travelled areas.

They only made it just past Tijuana when they were cornered and forced off the road.  The wife and daughters were taken hostage and the husband was told to pay 25k if he ever wanted to see them again.  He was also told that they would be tortured until he returned.

He met the thugs on the San Diego side of the border on Wednesday with 16k.  He was told that since he did not have all the money he would only get part of his family and they gave him half of his 9 year old daughter and fled.  He is now in a hospital in San Diego in shock. 

The police on both sides of the border are involved because the torso was delivered in the US and another drug tunnel is suspected.  They also told him to give up on his wife and other daughters as they are also dead by now.

In the press? Nope.  Will I travel to Mexico? Nope.

Ann


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 24, 2010)

Aussiedog said:


> But you won't hear about it in the news.
> 
> Ann



Why won't we hear about this in the news?


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## Aussiedog (Dec 24, 2010)

*No Idea*

It has been suggested that it is either too common or not something that the tourism industry wants in the news during a relatively busy time of the year.

I have a couple of sisters who live in San Diego and they are watching the news but nothing so far.

Ann


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## ondeadlin (Dec 24, 2010)

There is no other forum on TUG that has quite the dynamic of the Mexico forum.

It's as if some believe there should be a ban on anything but positive comments on the joys of a Mexican vacation. No talk of timeshare scams. No talk of safety issues. Opposing views will quickly be attacked and hopefully driven off.

Again, just some posters, but the same ones again and again, and always very aggressive and very active in attempting to drive off viewpoints other than their own.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 24, 2010)

Aussiedog said:


> It has been suggested that it is either too common or not something that the tourism industry wants in the news during a relatively busy time of the year.
> 
> I have a couple of sisters who live in San Diego and they are watching the news but nothing so far.
> 
> Ann


Except that stories of tourist terrorism are often milked for all they are worth by US news media because they generate such good ratings.  To go along with that theory requires that the news media are deliberately suppressing news stories that would boost their ratings. Or that the San Diego County police are acting in cahoots with Mexican tourism promoters.


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## Laurie (Dec 24, 2010)

easyrider said:


> I personally know people that wouldn't go to Mexico for any reason because of the Swine Flu and drug gangs. That is their prerogative.


I personally know people who wouldn't eat at a _Mexican restaurant in North Carolina_ during the swine flu outbreak!


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## Aussiedog (Dec 24, 2010)

*Still No Idea*

All I know is what I am told.  Absolutely no reason my sister, a middle-aged, well-respected business owner in her community, would make this up and then call me while crying hysterically.

Ann


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## easyrider (Dec 24, 2010)

Wow, Ann, that sounds brutal. It makes me wonder what the extended family does for a living. For a group to actually send a torso over the border for 16k seems like a very strong message to the extended family.


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## mountainguide (Dec 24, 2010)

Aussie
That is quite the horror story and I cant beleive that that is not news worthy and makes no sense. Im not denying it may have happened but an incident like that would make world news.


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## Aussiedog (Dec 24, 2010)

*I agree with you*



mountainguide said:


> Aussie
> That is quite the horror story and I cant beleive that that is not news worthy and makes no sense. Im not denying it may have happened but an incident like that would make world news.



I am as surprised as you are.  I may have more info later today or tomorrow.

Ann


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 24, 2010)

Aussiedog said:


> All I know is what I am told.  Absolutely no reason my sister, a middle-aged, well-respected business owner in her community, would make this up and then call me while crying hysterically.
> 
> Ann



How did your sister hear of it?  Did she speak with them, or did it come to her via something such as an e-mail from the husband?


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## siesta (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this story at all. the press would be all over a story like this.  If someone farts in an american's face in mexico, the press will catch a whiff and declare that mexico is too dangerous to travel to. a story as gruesome as this, would be headlining on CNN news and every liberal media outlet in California.

if this is true, I am obviously sorry for their loss, but I truly hope its not


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## Aussiedog (Dec 24, 2010)

The husband's brother, who works for my sister, went to her home last night to give her the news in person.  He was naturally distraught and then left for San Diego.

Ann


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## Passepartout (Dec 24, 2010)

I, for one, have no reason to disbelieve this report. It is heartbreaking. The border violence is something for all law-abiding people on both sides of the border to be more than angry about. While I love Mexico and Mexican people in general, I acknowledge that as long as Mexico produces and serves as a transit point for drugs demanded by customers north of the border and the USA serves as supplier and salesman for weapons desired and 'needed' south of the border, this violence will continue. 

I wish for peace for this family and a lifetime of pain and suffering for the perpetrators of this heinous act.

Jim Ricks

P.S. Hoping this was a cruel hoax, I checked Snopes.com, and did not see similar reports listed as false.


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## pianodinosaur (Dec 24, 2010)

Me gusta Mexico, mucho!!


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## easyrider (Dec 24, 2010)

With most of the marijauna grows in the USA now funded by the Mexican drug groups I wonder when the brutal type violence will be common every where. There has been execution type killings in the USA but the hack and sack isn't a common thing yet.

The war on drugs has failed . imo.


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## Neesie (Dec 25, 2010)

I notice in the OP's quote from the government they are adivising Texans from travelling to Mexico.  Sounds like a bordertown type of situation, not a reason to alarm the majority of Tuggers who probably fly into the resort regions.  All I know is, my trip to Cabo san Lucas is ON!


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## Papa_Lou (Dec 25, 2010)

Aussie, you seem to have a lot of information on this case, so why haven't you attempted to notify the media? Certainly you can find some news outlet willing to investigate the story! The father is still alive, right? I can't believe that every news room and paper in the nation are involved in a cover-up of this story. I think it's your obligation as a U.S. citizen to get this story out to the media so that more Americans aren't needlessly killed.


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## Cathyb (Dec 26, 2010)

*So sorry*



Aussiedog said:


> But you won't hear about it in the news.
> 
> Friends of my sister from Sacramento, a family of 5, parents and 3 girls, all US citizens, were on their way south for the holidays.  They decided to take their own extended cab pick-up truck with California plates so they would have transportation while they were there.  They planned their route carefully so that they would stay on main roads in well-travelled areas.
> 
> ...



Horrible story!  We live 40+ miles from Tijuana -- our Visitor Center will not recommend visitors going there anymore.  Such a shame as most of the residents are real nice people, but we just cannot risk being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## geoffb (Dec 27, 2010)

Kauai Kid said:


> Read recently where there was a mass grave uncovered near Acapulco that contained the bodies of US citizens tourists who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.


False. The twenty missing people who were unfortunately murdered in that case were all Mexican citizens from Michoacan state.

These types of things are easily fact checked. If you have access to this forum then you also have access to search engines online. Please take a minute to do some research before you post claims like this.




ondeadlin said:


> There is no other forum on TUG that has quite the dynamic of the Mexico forum.


Tell you what, start posting a new thread in other regional forums claiming that entire area of the world is unsafe for all travel every time you read an article about a tourist being injured, killed or victimized and let's see what the reaction is after a couple months.


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## Loggie (Dec 27, 2010)

We are currently staying at the El Cid El Moro Tower in Mazatlan.  Last night about 6:00 in the evening there was a shoot out in front of the La Casa Country restaurant.  There is one dead and two injured.  If you are not familar with the area this is in the Dorado zone/tourist zone and it is almost in front of the Holiday Inn.  We were sitting and having dinner in our room when my husband said that sounds like gun shots .... we looked out on the beach and saw nothing, I looked down the road and did not really see anything (we are on the 21st floor).  A couple of minutes later there were 18 patrol cars there.  We are here another week, I do not plan on leaving the premises.

That was a little scary as this is one of the places that vendors on the beach gave us coupons to.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldemazatlan/justicia.aspx


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## ada903 (Dec 27, 2010)

Wow! Thank you, but no, thanks! We used to spent 3-5 weeks a year in Cancun and we love Mexican people, customs and food. But why take a chance when there are so many other places and choices? Hawaii, Florida, Central America, Caribbean islands, etc. Some day we will be back to Mexico, but for now I take the opportunity to explore other places too.



Loggie said:


> We are currently staying at the El Cid El Moro Tower in Mazatlan.  Last night about 6:00 in the evening there was a shoot out in front of the La Casa Country restaurant.  There is one dead and two injured.  If you are not familar with the area this is in the Dorado zone/tourist zone and it is almost in front of the Holiday Inn.  We were sitting and having dinner in our room when my husband said that sounds like gun shots .... we looked out on the beach and saw nothing, I looked down the road and did not really see anything (we are on the 21st floor).  A couple of minutes later there were 18 patrol cars there.  We are here another week, I do not plan on leaving the premises.
> 
> That was a little scary as this is one of the places that vendors on the beach gave us coupons to.
> 
> http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldemazatlan/justicia.aspx


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## DebBrown (Dec 27, 2010)

Arrrgghhhh!!!  We are headed to Mazatlan in a couple of weeks.  I've been trying to keep things in perspective and not panic thinking we are safe in the tourist areas.  Now I don't know if I can enjoy the trip.

Deb


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

geoffb said:


> Tell you what, start posting a new thread in other regional forums claiming that entire area of the world is unsafe for all travel every time you read an article about a tourist being injured, killed or victimized and let's see what the reaction is after a couple months.



If you were posting a legitimate story about legitimate concerns in that area of the world, a response such as we see here would be just as unreasonable.

Because the responses often have nothing to do with the concerns - legitimate or not - and are simply an attack on the poster and attempt to intimidate folks out of posting anything that would reflect negatively on Mexico or Mexican timeshares.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

Loggie said:


> We are currently staying at the El Cid El Moro Tower in Mazatlan.  Last night about 6:00 in the evening there was a shoot out in front of the La Casa Country restaurant.  There is one dead and two injured.  If you are not familar with the area this is in the Dorado zone/tourist zone and it is almost in front of the Holiday Inn.  We were sitting and having dinner in our room when my husband said that sounds like gun shots .... we looked out on the beach and saw nothing, I looked down the road and did not really see anything (we are on the 21st floor).  A couple of minutes later there were 18 patrol cars there.  We are here another week, I do not plan on leaving the premises.
> 
> That was a little scary as this is one of the places that vendors on the beach gave us coupons to.
> 
> http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldemazatlan/justicia.aspx



Feel free to beat the rush and select a standard excuse now!

(A) People get murdered in Orlando every day, but you're still going to Disneyland, aren't you?
(B) There are drug gangs in L.A. and New York, but they're not in Times Square or at the Rose Bowl. Same thing here.
(C) Swine flu. 'Nuff said.
(D) Tourists get sacrificed to volcano gods ALL the time in the South Pacific, but nobody EVER complains about that.

;-)


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## aliikai2 (Dec 27, 2010)

*I am not sure where Dexter is but according to the Michigan*

http://michigan.gov/documents/msp/2010_6monthPreliminary_Web_333090_7.pdf

The murder and violent crime rate is much higher than the tourist areas of Mexico. :ignore: 


I feel much safer taking public transportation in Mazatlan, or Puerto Vallarta than I do in any major US city.

There were several people shot last night is a quiet suburb of Seattle, are we all going to post that on the NW board? 

As a side note, for those of us that travel to  Mexico, those of you that come here to stir the pot  and voice opinions upon things you have no experience with are just a nuisance. :zzz: 

You have an opinion, as does everyone, it doesn't make you right. 

The Hispanic phobia is rampant in our media, the attempts to dissuade traveler to the most beautiful country and warm and loving people is shameful  

ihmo,

Greg



ondeadlin said:


> If you were posting a legitimate story about legitimate concerns in that area of the world, a response such as we see here would be just as unreasonable.
> 
> Because the responses often have nothing to do with the concerns - legitimate or not - and are simply an attack on the poster and attempt to intimidate folks out of posting anything that would reflect negatively on Mexico or Mexican timeshares.


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

Loggie said:


> We are currently staying at the El Cid El Moro Tower in Mazatlan.  Last night about 6:00 in the evening there was a shoot out in front of the La Casa Country restaurant.  There is one dead and two injured.  If you are not familar with the area this is in the Dorado zone/tourist zone and it is almost in front of the Holiday Inn.  We were sitting and having dinner in our room when my husband said that sounds like gun shots .... we looked out on the beach and saw nothing, I looked down the road and did not really see anything (we are on the 21st floor).  A couple of minutes later there were 18 patrol cars there.  We are here another week, I do not plan on leaving the premises.
> 
> That was a little scary as this is one of the places that vendors on the beach gave us coupons to.
> 
> http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldemazatlan/justicia.aspx



We have eaten at La Casa Country restaurant. It is just across the street from where we stayed a few years ago.

This is not the first shootout in La Zona Dorada. Mazatlan has a lot of drug cartel members living and visiting there due to its proximity to Culiacán Sinaloa which is the capital of Sinaloa and the capital of the Mexican drug industry.

My wife and I were married in Culiacán many years ago and we lived there for 4 years after we got married.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks, Greg!

It's always great to have a real live demonstration of exactly what I'm talking about. Kudos!


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> If you were posting a legitimate story about legitimate concerns in that area of the world, a response such as we see here would be just as unreasonable.
> 
> Because the responses often have nothing to do with the concerns - legitimate or not - and are simply an attack on the poster and attempt to intimidate folks out of posting anything that would reflect negatively on Mexico or Mexican timeshares.



Most of these people attacking the posters are those with a vested interest in Mexico such as owning a timeshare there. I don't pay any attention to people that are posting about something that they have a vested interest in. That also applies to resort reviews.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Most of these people attacking the posters are those with a vested interest in Mexico such as owning a timeshare there. I don't pay any attention to people that are posting about something that they have a vested interest in. That also applies to resort reviews.



Some of them even make money renting Mexican timeshares (hi, Greg!  ) and obviously stand to suffer financially if people are afraid to travel there.  I realize this. 

But I don't think it excuses the behavior.


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## Carol C (Dec 27, 2010)

John Cummings, move to Atlanta and see if you think you feel safer here or in Mexico (except for MX border towns, of course...where I would not venture these days). I think the generalizations about Mexico are baseless and borderline racist...and thus my appreciation of Greg and Dean for posting their own perceptions and truths, from their hearts.


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## aliikai2 (Dec 27, 2010)

*According to a UN survey*

Crime rates in Mexico are less than in the US per 100,000 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico#Crime_rates

fwiw,

Greg


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## aliikai2 (Dec 27, 2010)

*We rent timeshares all over, we USE the Mexican*

timeshares because we would rather go where the people want you to visit vs the Hawaiians that would rather you stayed home. 

Both Hawaii and Mexico are beautiful with warm temperatures, the main difference is the people and the food. The Mexican people are warm and caring.
When we were checking out of the El Cid Marina in November, several of the staff that we had come to know came up and hugged my dear wife with warmth and compassion. I have never in 20 years had a Hawaiian offer to hug us, so that is to us the real difference. 
If you don't want to come to sunny friendly Mexico, that is OK, we are making you. 
And in this one item you and I can agree, having a Hispanic phobia doesn't excuse your position.
Greg



ondeadlin said:


> Some of them even make money renting Mexican timeshares (hi, Greg!  ) and obviously stand to suffer financially if people are afraid to travel there.  I realize this.


And in this one item you and I can agree


> But I don't think it excuses the behavior.


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## buceo (Dec 27, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Most of these people attacking the posters are those with a vested interest in Mexico such as owning a timeshare there. I don't pay any attention to people...



That should go the same for those with vested interest in oh say Hawaii and other places who post negative views of Mexico and Mexican Timeshares here.

The OP is Kauai Kid

The horrific story that we're to understand won't be in the news is supposed to be credible somehow?  Any follow up on that?  When I searched I got people shot at a Sacramento mall.

There is extreme drug related violence in northern MX, kidnappings are on the rise to make up for lost drug related income.  It's reported constantly in the news.

I wouldn't even think of going on other boards and posting negative information I find "in the news", while having a vested interest elsewhere.

I know what they mean about watching a train wreck, hard not to look at this board.


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

Carol C said:


> John Cummings, move to Atlanta and see if you think you feel safer here or in Mexico (except for MX border towns, of course...where I would not venture these days). I think the generalizations about Mexico are baseless and borderline racist...and thus my appreciation of Greg and Dean for posting their own perceptions and truths, from their hearts.



I see that you have a vested interest in Mexico.

Let's see, borderline racist huh. Well my wife is from Mexico and all her family lives there. I am fluent in Spanish, taught Mexican culture for businesses, worked in Mexico, founded a business there, and lived there. Our son played semi-pro baseball in Mexico and was on the Mexican All Star team. I have traveled all over Mexico and vacationed in Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Nuevo Vallarta, Cancun, Riviera Maya, La Paz, Cabo San Lucas, and several other places. I worked in Vera Cruz.

You don't even know what goes on in Mexico. Over 90% of crime is never reported in Mexico. Yes, there are dangerous places in the US but we know where they are and avoid them.

Most of the tourist areas in Mexico are pretty safe but one should be careful where they go. I would be especially careful in Mazatlan and Acapulco. Cabo San Lucas is probably the safest due to its separation from the Mexican mainland.

As far as reporting incidents, I am sure all of you would post about a shootout in a tourist area where you were staying.


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

aliikai2 said:


> Crime rates in Mexico are less than in the US per 100,000 people.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico#Crime_rates
> 
> ...



More than 90% of crime is not reported in Mexico. Your chart shows that the homicide rate is much higher in Mexico. Also the chart is for 2004. Crime has escalated tremendously, especially murders, in Mexico since 2004 whereas crime has dropped in the US.


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## easyrider (Dec 27, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> More than 90% of crime is not reported in Mexico. Your chart shows that the homicide rate is much higher in Mexico. Also the chart is for 2004. Crime has escalated tremendously, especially murders, in Mexico since 2004 whereas crime has dropped in the US.



John, I do agree that crime and violence has increased in the northern Mexican States but this violence is not directed at tourists. All tourists killed in Mexico in the last five years total maybe 100, not counting Mexican citizens. Out of that 100 probably only a handful were killed by drug cartels. In the last 5 years an estimated 100 million tourist visited Mexico. 

Do the math. The odds are you would not be killed by gang members in Mexico unless you were taking risks like buying drugs or prostitutes. 

My cousins girlfriend owns an art gallery in Mexico and her daughter was murdered in a sub division of PV last October. No news in the paper or anywhere. No one caught. Its believed that her ex husband did this as he has left the area. This was reported to the police who are investigating but not reported by the press.

If an American tourist gets killed it is definitely reported everywhere.

I think you had some bad experiences with Mexico and it is reflected in your posts about safty in Mexico. Your experiences were caused mostly from being a family member of business people near drug cartels ? Why dont you share your thoughts on your vacations to tourist areas instead of your thoughts on living in Mexico ?

As far as the 9 year old girl being cut in half, there is still no news on that I bet.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

The accusations of racism and "Hispanic phobia" are both laughable and sad. 

They're laughable because all of these discussions have focused on the legitimate issues of crime and safety (and if anyone  can't recognize these as legitimate issues ... well ... laughable again). They're issues regardless of what country is involved, what language is spoken or what color people are, etc.

I'd love to spend two weeks in Spain, I wouldn't have any interest in spending two weeks in Mexico. The reasons are obvious.

And to think someone would be so blinded by their love of a vacation destination that they'd start throwing around accusations of racism to people they don't know in the least? Yeah, sad's just about the only description that would apply.


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## buceo (Dec 27, 2010)

ondeadlin said:


> And to think someone would be so blinded by their love of a vacation destination that they'd start throwing around accusations ...



For me the "accusations" start every time I see the "Mexican Timeshares" used here (over and over) in a derogatory fashion. No caveats.  Lumping an entire industry together like that is...I'll just say less than admirable. Though it conjures up other descriptions.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

buceo said:


> For me the "accusations" start every time I see the "Mexican Timeshares" used here (over and over) in a derogatory fashion. No caveats.  Lumping an entire industry together like that is...I'll just say less than admirable. Though it conjures up other descriptions.



I'd probably feel the same way if I had a website making money renting Mexican timeshares.


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## aliikai2 (Dec 27, 2010)

*You remind me of my Ex wife*

Always had to get the last word. 

roflmao, :rofl: 

:hysterical: 
Greg



ondeadlin said:


> I'd probably feel the same way if I had a website making money renting Mexican timeshares.


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## ondeadlin (Dec 27, 2010)

Oh, I'm pretty sure we're far from the last word on this subject, Greg.

(There's an ex-wife joke in there too, but it would be too easy to be much fun ...)


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## mikenk (Dec 27, 2010)

I will admit that I love vacationing in Mexico; that is why I participate in the Mexico forum. I learn from others, contribute when I can, and enjoy the interaction with people with similar interests.

I will also admit that it aggravates the fool out of me for posters who clearly have no interest in Mexico to jump in to educate me on things that I know much more about than they do. 

It also aggravates me that the posts are seldom done with any sense or intent of fairness or real accuracy, and for what purpose. Surely, people know that we who vacation regularly in Mexico are aware and concerned about the drug cartel issues, but we also know enough to keep it all in perspective. Last month, in a similar thread, some poster just had to make us aware that Mexico had become just like Iraq. Give me a break.

I travel extensively on business and leisure and feel that care must be taken wherever you go and you can be safe anywhere you go. I can take you to places in Detroit, Dallas, New Orleans, etc. that you would love to be transported instantly to anywhere in Cabo. 

if the truth be known, I would bet that it is far more dangerous to take a driving vacation in the USA than vacationing at a resort in Mexico and probably far, far more likely to be killed as a tourist by a drunk driver here than by a drug lord in Mexico. 

Just my 2 cents,
Mike


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## Aussiedog (Dec 27, 2010)

*Update*

It turns out that two families were taken by the same gang at the same time in broad daylight and kept together.  The second family was able to raise the full ransom and was released, although their Tahoe was never returned.  The family my sister knows (knew) was not able to raise the entire ransom.  

Unfortunately, the wife and children, all US citizens, were killed.  When the husband was told of this (while in the hospital being treated for shock at the death of his youngest daughter) he checked out, went back over the border and was also killed.

All bodies are now in the custody of the Mexican military, not the police, as evidently they have jurisdiction over the gang and drug cartel problems.  Family in Sacramento are trying to get the bodies released for burial in the US but the military is pushing for a free burial in Mexico.  My sister is assisting with the affairs in Sacramento as they have a home, bank accounts, jobs, etc, in the area.

I don't have a dog in the Mexican timeshare, anti-Hispanic fight that seems to have developed here.  I was just trying to add some information that I thought would be helpful.  My Dutch-immigrant family grew up within sight of the border, we spent our summers in Baja, one of my sisters lived in Mexico City for a while and the godparents of some of my siblings were from Tijuana.  But none of this blinds me or my family to the fact that it just is not as safe as it used to be (although even 50 years ago we carried $5 bills in our glovebox in case we were stopped by the Mexican police and needed to pay our way out of a "ticket" ).

Like some of you I thought that this heightened level of conflict was confined to the border towns.  However, my airline pilot friends tell me that their latest crew robberies (in the last week or so) took place in broad daylight in tourist towns further to the south.  I have no way of judging frequencies but the crews have been told to be extra careful.

Bummer.  It is a beautiful country and I look forward to a resolution of the drug cartel problem in 2011.

Ann


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

easyrider said:


> I think you had some bad experiences with Mexico and it is reflected in your posts about safty in Mexico. Your experiences were caused mostly from being a family member of business people near drug cartels ? Why dont you share your thoughts on your vacations to tourist areas instead of your thoughts on living in Mexico ?



You are 100% wrong. I have never had any bad experiences in Mexico. My wife's family that live in Sinaloa and Sonora are not business people. I was the founder of a computer consulting business not in Sinaloa. I closed the business down because I got too busy here in the US and I was tired of not getting paid which is a very common problem in Mexico. The only bad experience I had was paying a couple bribes to get passports etc. but that goes with the territory. I am very close to my wife's family. A few of them, that were able to, have moved to the US to get away from it all. I love the Mexican people and have many very good friends there. We have had some very good vacations, especially at the Grand Mayans.

Now, there has been lots of incidents happen to many of my wife's relatives, from armed robbery to kidnapping ( with their fingers cut off ). None of my wife's family have ever had any connection to the drug industry.


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## John Cummings (Dec 27, 2010)

Aussiedog said:


> ... I look forward to a resolution of the drug cartel problem in 2011.
> 
> Ann



That isn't going to happen. The drug cartels have taken over several local governments and control some of the states. They have also branched out to charging businesses "protection money". A couple of weeks ago, they burned down a kindergarten because it hadn't paid their protection money.


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## DeniseM (Dec 27, 2010)

Folks - most of you are regulars who know that name calling and personal attacks are not permitted on TUG.  

People are ALLOWED to disagree on TUG, as long as they don't violate the TUG posting rules.

If you see a post that violates the TUG Posting rules, then report it by clicking on the red triangle at the bottom of the post - rather than making accusations in the thread.

But if you just disagree with them - don't read their posts!  They have as much right to post their opinion as you do.


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