# Ocho Cascadas Leaseholds Expiring in 2009 [merged]



## Karen P (Dec 3, 2008)

I was fortunate enough to exchange into Ocho Cascadas back in '03. Back then, I learned the ownerships were going to expire in 2009, and the developer of the project made no announcements as to what the future would hold for timeshare owners there after 2009. 

Has anyone heard what will happen next year there? Will the developer offer owners an opportunity to extend their ownerships under new terms, or?


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## pittle (Dec 3, 2008)

I was told last week that it is for sale and the contracts are not being renewed.  This was while taking a TS presentation at a new resort that is just past Ocho Cascadas.


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## Carol C (Dec 5, 2008)

pittle said:


> I was told last week that it is for sale and the contracts are not being renewed.  This was while taking a TS presentation at a new resort that is just past Ocho Cascadas.



TUGgers, let's all pitch in and buy it and run it as a co-op for ourselves! 

P.S. I volunteer to move there and be "caretaker".


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## Cathyb (Dec 5, 2008)

What happens to the present owners -- do they lose everything?


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## PigsDad (Dec 5, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> What happens to the present owners -- do they lose everything?


What's to "lose"?  I assume they all knew it was a RTU contract, with an expiration date, when they purchased.  I don't understand why you would think they would be losing anything, as if they were scammed out of something.  

Kurt


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## Karen P (Dec 5, 2008)

Let's pray that another timeshare developer picks this property up!  After all, it has a long-established reputation for being one of the most unique and beautiful timeshare properties in the world. It would be a boon to any timeshare developer to bring Ocho Cascadas into their resort collection. 

I'm certain people will pay big bucks to own a timeshare there.


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## Karen P (Dec 5, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> What happens to the present owners -- do they lose everything?



Cathy, Back in the early stages of timeshare in Mexico, just about all timeshare sales there were leasehold agreements, which had an expiration date after a prescribed number of years. This disclosure was made clear in the contracts they buyers signed. 

I remember something about Americans being unable to buy real estate in Mexico back then. The only option back then for Americans to experience timeshare ownership in Mexico was to buy a leasehold interest. This did not make it unappealing for Mexico timeshare buyers, as they still saw the value in being involved in timeshare vs. hotel or motel accomodations.


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## Cathyb (Dec 5, 2008)

I believe the Royals in Cancun gave their owners money back at the close of the option but I may be wrong.  Am I understanding that the Ocho Cascades timeshare buyers would pay $10-15,000/week years ago, knowing in 2008 they would own nothing?  I don't quite understand. :duh:


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## PigsDad (Dec 5, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> I believe the Royals in Cancun gave their owners money back at the close of the option but I may be wrong.  Am I understanding that the Ocho Cascades timeshare buyers would pay $10-15,000/week years ago, knowing in 2008 they would own nothing?  I don't quite understand. :duh:


That is exactly what they did.  Just like DVC buyers are doing today.

Kurt


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## Tacoma (Dec 5, 2008)

Some of us consider those RTU contracts safer since there is an end date for when we will stop owing money for maintenance.  Banff Rocky MOuntain Resort ends around 2046.  I'll be really old by then and probably won't want it anyway and I don't want my kids paying for something they may not want.  With many timeshares not selling for even a dollar I would be hesitant to but something where my maintenance never ends.

Joan


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## nana7 (Dec 6, 2008)

You are right!  The sister resort , Club Cascadas de Baja , was sold the same way, RTU, with the ending date 2018.  At end of the trust owners to receive nothing.  But the developer, Mrs Giddien, has decided to extend Club Cascadas but NOT Ocho Cascadas.  (THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING)
The owners at Club Cascadas have a chance to buy the legecy and continue on or recieve nothing at the end of the trust.  My understanding is that Ocho Cascadas will be sold with the money going back to the original developer.

Mexician Time shares work differently than the US with the RTU.
You are also correct that the Royal owners of VCI trust ended in 2007 and the owners had a chance to either buy back in OR recieve money back.  They are doing a big renovation of VCI and the trust will continue with the new owners.
I hope I have stated this correctly!!!


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## Connie Argus (Aug 20, 2009)

*Ocho Cascadas Right to Use Extended for 3 years*

Owners at Ocho Casdcadass have been given the right to extend their  ownership for 3 years.   

[Advertising is not permitted in the TUG Forums - DeniseM Moderator]


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## drivable (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen P said:


> Let's pray that another timeshare developer picks this property up!  After all, it has a long-established reputation for being one of the most unique and beautiful timeshare properties in the world. It would be a boon to any timeshare developer to bring Ocho Cascadas into their resort collection.
> 
> I'm certain people will pay big bucks to own a timeshare there.


A ten unit Boutique Resort is not the sort of thing most timeshare developers want to deal with.  It has to be a niche developer.




Connie Argus said:


> Owners at Ocho Casdcadass have been given the right to extend their  ownership for 3 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## drivable (Aug 20, 2009)

http://ochocascadas.com/


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## tonyg (Aug 20, 2009)

In the current environment they would have trouble getting a good price, so why not keep the golden goose for 3 more and the sell if times are better.


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## richardm (Aug 20, 2009)

About 50% of the weeks there were never sold, so the Giddings have always had an active rental program. My understanding is that owners can simply decide to extend the leasehold at no additional cost. The m. fee is expected to be the same as 2009.  Any owners who elect not to do so will simply have their weeks go to the Gidding's in their rental pool.

I've always wanted to go there, but never got around to it..  I guess I'll now have time to do so!


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## Karen G (Aug 20, 2009)

nana7 said:


> The sister resort , Club Cascadas de Baja , was sold the same way, RTU, with the ending date 2018.  At end of the trust owners to receive nothing.  But the developer, Mrs Giddien, has decided to extend Club Cascadas but NOT Ocho Cascadas.  (THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING)
> The owners at Club Cascadas have a chance to buy the legecy and continue on or recieve nothing at the end of the trust.


Club Cascadas de Baja is next door to PB Rose in Cabo. This year we were offered an extension of our RTU at the Rose. For $10,000 we could extend our RTU for 30 years, so I assume the Rose plans to continue as a timeshare property until at least 2039.  We aren't interested in that deal as we have 18 yrs. left on our original contract anyway.


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## IngridN (Aug 20, 2009)

richardm said:


> About 50% of the weeks there were never sold, so the Giddings have always had an active rental program. My understanding is that owners can simply decide to extend the leasehold at no additional cost. The m. fee is expected to be the same as 2009.  Any owners who elect not to do so will simply have their weeks go to the Gidding's in their rental pool.
> 
> I've always wanted to go there, but never got around to it..  I guess I'll now have time to do so!



This is good news as it also presents another opportunity for us. Like Richard, we never got around to it this first time. Does anyone know how to access the Giddings' rental program? We need to plan 10-12 months in advance and for Ocho Cascades, that impossible through II or the occasional rentals that pop up on Redweek. Thanks.

Ingrid


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## Connie Argus (Aug 20, 2009)

*Available weeks at Ocho*

While Pat Giddings, the designer's widow has retained several units for use by her family, to say they didn't sell 50% of the units or that they have an active rental program might be a bit of an overstatement....

The best and easiest way to access weeks at Ocho is to visit Ocho's site:   www.clubochocascadas.com.

[Advertising is not permitted in the forums - DeniseM Moderator]


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## richardm (Aug 20, 2009)

You can call the resort management office directly at 949/640-8742 and ask for Leslie, who handles the developer's rental inventory.

You probably won't see much on the website from owners for 2010 rentals, simply because the extension process is too new, and the majority of owners wouldn't have known they would have access to the weeks.

Check the weather before you pick your dates. No AC at this resort- so I've heard that summer can be a bit toasty...


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## IngridN (Aug 20, 2009)

richardm said:


> You can call the resort management office directly at 949/640-8742 and ask for Leslie, who handles the developer's rental inventory.
> 
> You probably won't see much on the website from owners for 2010 rentals, simply because the extension process is too new, and the majority of owners wouldn't have known they would have access to the weeks.
> 
> Check the weather before you pick your dates. No AC at this resort- so I've heard that summer can be a bit toasty...



Thanks, I'll try calling. I tried the website a while ago, checking almost daily, and very little pops up with any lead time. And to post a rental wanted listing, they charge you. Which wouldn't be so bad except that there are several wanted listings that have been there forever, so don't know how effective that is.

Ingrid


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## richardm (Aug 20, 2009)

Tell them I referred you.. Maybe I'll get a discount when I book mine!


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## IngridN (Aug 20, 2009)

:rofl: :rofl: 





richardm said:


> Tell them I referred you.. Maybe I'll get a discount when I book mine!


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## taffy19 (Aug 21, 2009)

tonyg said:


> In the current environment they would have trouble getting a good price, so why not keep the golden goose for 3 more and the sell if times are better.


It's still up for sale but for about half the price.  I believe that it was over 9 million dollars before.  It is listed here for only 4.2 million now.  Still want to buy?   

The ad shows beautiful pictures of the condos and they certainly are very unique and romantic in a lovely residential neighborhood.  We were lucky to stay there once.


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## drivable (Aug 21, 2009)

iconnections said:


> It's still up for sale but for about half the price.  I believe that it was over 9 million dollars before.  It is listed here for only 4.2 million now.  Still want to buy?
> 
> The ad shows beautiful pictures of the condos and they certainly are very unique and romantic in a lovely residential neighborhood.  We were lucky to stay there once.


As I said, it was $10,400,000 when I was there last year, that's quite a cut.  Maybe I'll pick it up, let me check the couch.


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## MuranoJo (Aug 21, 2009)

This has always been one place I wanted to snag for a visit.  Bummer.


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## IndigoGypsy (Aug 26, 2009)

*Ocho Cascadas Renewals*

We renewed our OC TS for 3 years. Although we had planned on going somewhere else next year, it was very inexpensive so we couldn't pass it up. So, I rented our 2010 week to a friend who always wanted to go. It was a win win.

If anyone is interested in purchasing a week, drop me a PM. I can refer you to the guy who is handling the extensions. It's a very easy process and now that owners who were interested have already renewed their weeks, they are open to the public.

Another hint -- if you are interested in a week there, contact one of us who owns. Someone from TUG sent me an email a couple of years back and explained that she wanted the unit for her son who was getting married. We were happy to accommodate them and rented it out to them.


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## 2Harps (Sep 2, 2009)

*Ocho Cascadas Renewals*

Thank you, thank you, thank you. We purchased one of the extensions and can't wait to use it!


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## Connie Argus (Sep 13, 2009)

*Several new rental Listings on the Ocho Cascadas Site*

The Ocho Cascadas site has been updated with several new rental listings for late this year and early next.  www.clubochocascadas.com


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## collinsc (Sep 19, 2009)

*Ocho Cascadas Right-To-Use 3-Year Extension*

I have posted some more info about the RTU extension on our Ocho Cascadas FAQ page.


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## cauny (Oct 4, 2009)

*Informed speculation*

As many of you are quite timeshare-savvy and, additionally, are aware that Ocho Cascadas is avialable for sale, I, as a potential purchaser of the property would be very interested in your informed speculation as to what timeshare weeks at OC would fetch on the open market now (in rather bleak times and circumstances) and in the future (if, as and when the market returns to "pre-recession" levels).

A potential purchaser intending to continue OC as a timeshare property must make certain arbitrary assumtpions about revenue. Wiuth your input those assumtpions might be refined somewhat.

Please provide your answers (if any) based on the assumption that all deficiencies at OC will be corrected prior to ownership transfer and that one of the adjoining lots will be dedicated to the creation of a funiclar, which would provide stops on each living level.

P.S. Vallarta remains as I have known her for 40 years: the best of everything.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Craig


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## cauny (Oct 5, 2009)

*Input on Ocho Cascadas Requested*

Hello-

As many of you already know, the property named Ocho Cascadas (an iconic development of Ed Giddings which has been an active timeshare property in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, for decades) is for sale.

I am considering purchasing the property, correcting any and all current deficiencies (few though they may be) and adding a fanicular against the side of the buiding, with stops at each living level).

Ocho Cascadas has a long and distinguished history as a unique timeshare property: its location (hillside in Conchas Chinas in Puerto Vallarta); its siting (unobstructed view of Banderas Bay); its unique architecture (multiple living levels with pools cascading to the level below) and its openness and relative lack of corners and angles. 

I, for one, believe it to be the finest timeshare destination in the entire world.

It could also be well-utilized as a botique hotel or a private residence, but my interest in the property is exclusively as a timeshare destination.

Among the elements of due diligence regarding this purchase, likely revenue is paramount in importance. The ideal source for that information is you: current OC owners and those who will become owners in the future.

Therefore, I would ask for your input: what do you regard as a fair and equitable one week ownership price, and for how many years would you have interest in ownership? If possible, please opine based on dry season (i.e. Oct-May) and rainy reason (May-Oct), as the intrinsic value charges depending on weather and time of year.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Craig


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## taffy19 (Oct 5, 2009)

Welcome to TUG!  

There are quite a few timeshare developers in Mexico and prices are all over the place but there is a little timeshare development also in the Conchas Chinas area not far from you. This small development is still under construction but almost completed.

Some of the people here have bought at the Castles & Condos Resort so they may be willing to let you know here or privately what their prices and terms are.

Here is a link of the Castles & Condos Resort and the link of the thread about that timeshare resort. It is very long because the project had some problems but I believe that they have been resolved.

To build a funicular next to the property would be a very nice feature to have as the steps are steep and it can be very hot and humid in Puerto Vallarta.

We stayed here once and it was a very unique experience because it is so different and it has a lot of charm and a spectacular view as well and we loved being spoiled by a private cook who did the shopping too.

I hope you will get lots of good information here as I know that many people would love to continue to vacation at the Ocho Cascadas as an owner or as an exchanger through II.

Good luck with your purchase.


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## cauny (Oct 5, 2009)

*Clarification*

iconnections - thanks for your input.

It appears I was not clear:  I am interested in knowing what YOU (and all the "YOU's who reply) would be willing to pay for a week at OC. To help you decide, let's presume that you're buying 25 years of RTU.

To refine my request: What would you pay for 25 years of RTU at OC? And what annual maintainence fee would be appropriate?

Thanks to all.

Craig


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## richardm (Oct 5, 2009)

The offered extension is only three years.. Perhaps you misunderstood...

If you are a potential buyer for the resort as a whole, your commercial broker should be able to provide you with info and sales data- if not- you need a new broker!


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## collinsc (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Craig,

I'll be happy to give you our input...

Like you, we feel that OC is one of the finest timeshare destinations in the world, and we are thrilled to hear that you are considering purchasing the resort to continue it as a timeshare.

We have been owners since 2001, when we purchased a May week for about $4000, which we felt was a good deal.  We have now purchased the 3-year extension for about $1200, which we feel is also a fair deal.  So for each of those purchases, we were willing to pay something along the lines of $400 per year of usage.  

So 25 years of RTU would work out to about $10K, although we would prefer to see some discount for purchasing that many years at once.

As for maintenance fees... we were happy when they were about $400, but lately they've gone up to about $750, which is getting too high for us.

I hope numbers like that still allow the deal work for you.

Regards,
Chris
Ocho Cascadas photos - Part 1
Ocho Cascadas photos - Part 2
Ocho Cascadas FAQ


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