# Not a real owner because I purchased resale.



## northovr (Feb 27, 2011)

Just got back from a owners update.  I just found out I'm not a real owner because I brought resale.  Plus I was told I might not be able to bank my fixed week into RCI anymore.  She added up my maintence fees and she figure out I will be paying 20,000 dollars in the next ten years in maintence fees.  I think she trying to make me buy a real week at 22 cent a point.   To get the same thing I have already I would have to pay 60,000 dollars.  I really don't know what she was trying to do because maintences are the same not real owner or owner. 
75 dollars american gift card girl scout cookies and 15 dollar voucher for a smoke house that isn't open yet and two hours of my time and we were out of there.  Plus she said I shouldn't even have been thier because I already did a owners update in the last 6 months.  Well I had to get a parking pass and they offered it so I took it. 

Daniel Northover
norhovr@verizon.net


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## DeniseM (Feb 27, 2011)

You didn't buy ANY of that nonsense, did you?


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## DaveNV (Feb 27, 2011)

Daniel, do you know how you can tell a timeshare salesperson is lying?

Their lips are moving.

Take your "gifts" and run.  Far, far away.  

Dave


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## northovr (Feb 27, 2011)

nope and on the question sheet I had to fill out I put Stephen P. Holmes as my personal vacation conselor. She knew the name and wanted to know how I new him I told she was my vaction conselor


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 27, 2011)

*Well, sounds like a perfectly normal episode of Owner's Update by Wyndham. *Belittle the paying owners of maintenance fees, abusing the system by attending when asked and thereby, YOU have sucked the life-blood (floor time) out of the vampire TS salesperson.  

Real owner??? We all know she was projecting back onto herself. Vampires are not real people. Next time take a WOODEN STAKE and CROSS, to protect yourself. 

Two hours - pretty good on your escape.


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## Cheryl20772 (Feb 27, 2011)

Real owner is the one who pays the MF's and taxes.  Same fees and taxes for resale and retail purchasers.  You know the truth... she's a liar.


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## timeos2 (Feb 27, 2011)

northovr said:


> Just got back from a owners update.  I just found out I'm not a real owner because I brought resale.  Plus I was told I might not be able to bank my fixed week into RCI anymore.  She added up my maintence fees and she figure out I will be paying 20,000 dollars in the next ten years in maintence fees.  I think she trying to make me buy a real week at 22 cent a point.   To get the same thing I have already I would have to pay 60,000 dollars.  I really don't know what she was trying to do because maintences are the same not real owner or owner.
> 75 dollars american gift card girl scout cookies and 15 dollar voucher for a smoke house that isn't open yet and two hours of my time and we were out of there.  Plus she said I shouldn't even have been thier because I already did a owners update in the last 6 months.  Well I had to get a parking pass and they offered it so I took it.



Isn't it sad that all they can do is tear down their own product and try to make you feel unhappy with what you own rather than offer something of true value that would make you want to buy?  As you appear to realize it is all BS and the only losers are those that fall for paying the obscene premium of retail purchase - 95%+ of which expense "disappears" once the 7-10 day rescind period ends. Those that think they got a value from being declared  "VIP" or some other bogus designation soon find out those things are not guaranteed and anything of true value (such as free guest certificates) will be taken away with no owner recourse once Wyndham realizes it may actually cost them a few bucks. VIP is worthless when the excess cost of obtaining it (retail purchase) is factored in. It would take decades to even potentially break even if the "benefits" stayed as they are (and they don't - remember there are zero guarantees) and they already have all those funds upfront.  At some point they will probably just terminate VIP in favor of some other, new & even costlier program and there won't be a thing current "valued members"  can do about it. 

If you get roped in (and they love to practically twist your arm to attend even if you say you're not going to buy & just want your parking pass THEN blame YOU for "wasting our time" when you correctly refuse to even consider the ridiculous offers they spew out) just say "NO - I can buy all the points I'd ever want / need for a few cents resale so why would I pay hundreds of time more from you?". As your mention of resale gets louder the chances of the torture ending increase. They are lying weasels at best and outright crooks at worst.  Best to avoid them entirely but you must say no if they do get you to attend.  It's the sales "koolaid" you need to avoid not the siren call of inexpensive resale points in what is still one of the great values in all of timeshare - Wyndham resale points.


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## Don (Feb 27, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Real owner is the one who pays the MF's and taxes.  Same fees and taxes for resale and retail purchasers.


Here's an idea.  Next time someone is told that they are not a real owner, demand to be able to pay the fees in Monopoly money.


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## mclyne (Feb 27, 2011)

My husband and I attended a seminar at Aruba Ocean Club two weeks ago. We were told if we enrolled  our resale weeks in the points program, we would no longer be, "stepchildren".

We took our 15,000 points and left.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 27, 2011)

The issue of wether or not Wyndham Vacation Resorts/Wyndham Vacation Ownership has the right to reconize or not reconize all or part of transferred ownership interests is a real one.  I have been working issues relating to this subject since June/July 2009.  Their extra-curricular activities tying to gain control of the underlying units they want and getting a never ending sets of demands for new purchases to resolve issues with Wyndham gets old.


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## learnalot (Feb 27, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> The issue of wether or not Wyndham Vacation Resorts/Wyndham Vacation Ownership has the right to reconize or not reconize all or part of transferred ownership interests is a real one.  I have been working issues relating to this subject since June/July 2009.  Their extra-curricular activities tying to gain control of the underlying units they want and getting a never ending sets of demands for new purchases to resolve issues with Wyndham gets old.



Longwell,

I am not sure what "parts of transferred ownership interests" you are having trouble getting them to recognize.  If it relates to VIP benefits, the ownership materials state pretty clearly that VIP benefits do not transfer with sale except by will or to immediate family members.  Unfortunately, if you bought resale from someone who either neglected to mention that or simply wasn't aware of it, the policy still exists.

To the OP, if you are real and you are an owner,  you are a real owner.  Congratulations!  The only thing that doesn't transfer with resale are VIP benefits, which as others have mentioned, are not really worth all the money people have to fork out for them in a developer sale anyway so don't lose any sleep over that.


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## siesta (Feb 27, 2011)

besides VIP and plus partners, everything else transfers resale.  plus partners can be purchased as an add-on for ~$2400


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## lily28 (Feb 27, 2011)

I did an owner update at wyndham canterbury at san francisco earlier this month. after I told them how much I paid for my resale small wyndham contract, they gave me my $100 am express gift card after only 20 minutes


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## rrlongwell (Feb 28, 2011)

Took over my timeshares from my mother and step father, bought others direct from Wyndham.  No re-sale units.


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## northovr (Feb 28, 2011)

Congradulation your a real owner


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## Born2Travel (Feb 28, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Real owner is the one who pays the MF's and taxes. Same fees and taxes for resale and retail purchasers. You know the truth... she's a liar.


 

Very True!!


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## Cheryl20772 (Feb 28, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Took over my timeshares from my mother and step father, bought others direct from Wyndham.  No re-sale units.



So you inherited from your mother and should have VIP.  Why can't Wyndham see that?  Sheesh!    Keep us updated on your battle progress.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 28, 2011)

Most likely his mom's last name was of that of his step-father's.


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## Cheryl20772 (Feb 28, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Most likely his mom's last name was of that of his step-father's.


There has to be legal documents to show the relationship.  Birth certificate would show her name when he was born and marriage certificate would show how she got a different name.  Once relationship is shown, I don't know how W can legally deny.  Wouldn't that be some kind of breach of contract?


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## rrlongwell (Feb 28, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> There has to be legal documents to show the relationship.  Birth certificate would show her name when he was born and marriage certificate would show how she got a different name.  Once relationship is shown, I don't know how W can legally deny.  Wouldn't that be some kind of breach of contract?



Relationships were proven long ago.  The problems involve primiarily their desire to get the deeds to Westwinds and Seawatch Plantation.


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## learnalot (Feb 28, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Relationships were proven long ago.  The problems involve primiarily their desire to get the deeds to Westwinds and Seawatch Plantation.



Longwell,

On what basis are they claiming to dispute your rights and privileges?  The membership documents are clear on direct inheritance rights and retaining VIP status.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 28, 2011)

learnalot said:


> Longwell,
> 
> On what basis are they claiming to dispute your rights and privileges?  The membership documents are clear on direct inheritance rights and retaining VIP status.



This thread line has misinterupeted the problems.  I had put a more specific discription then changed it to the one that appears above.  I do not want to aggrivate the situation with Wyndham.  It appears the problems are 98 percent resolved at this point.  I appriciate everyone's interest and concern.  I am just trying to help others with problems they indicate they are having.  Since June 2009, I have become very knoweldgable on the Consumer Affairs, Legal, Owner Relations, Title, RCI (relating to the weeks program), how various East Coast resorts initeract with the Legal/Title/Reservations/Owner Relations/Sales and Marketing combine.  Their have been a number of successfull BBB complaints as indicated in an earlier posting.  The overwelming observation I have for other owners resale, regular, or inheritances is that Wynhdam Vacation Owership is becomeing the dominant player if not Wyndham Worldwide itself.  I believe the Myrtle Beach Sales staff when I sat through their presentation that they have reduced the number of owners from the old Fairfield days to 11,000 from over 260,000 owners.  They have transferred them to other forms of ownership, so the story goes.  This has something to do, I believe, with the designations that came up in their printed material catorgizing the resorts into Legacy etc. (the other names I do not remember), ACCESS, the recent RCI changes involving Trading Power Designations and the changes to the weeks program, the rising emphasis in Sales pushing renting units to Extra Hollidays, the unmentionable alleged program that were the subject of other posts, the WAAM program (as described by the orginal poster on that thread), the problems associated with Worldmark), and the increased attention being given by Sales Staff to the Wyndham Rewards points conversion program, and the recent emphisis that I saw on the internet pertaining to changing the name of RCI on the cooporate organization chart to emphise what was referred to as the rising importance of the rental arm to Wyndham Worldwides profits.  I do not know if this answered the question, but it is the best I can do.


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## learnalot (Feb 28, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I do not want to aggrivate the situation with Wyndham.  It appears the problems are 98 percent resolved at this point
> 
> ... I believe the Myrtle Beach Sales staff when I sat through their presentation that they have reduced the number of owners from the old Fairfield days to 11,000 from over 260,000 owners.  They have transferred them to other forms of ownership, so the story goes.  This has something to do, I believe, with the designations that came up in their printed material catorgizing the resorts into Legacy etc. (the other names I do not remember), The recent RCI changes involving Trading Power Designations and the changes to the weeks program.



Longwell,

If you are getting resolution that is good.  

All I can tell you in addition is that the most deceptive sales presentation I ever sat through took place in Myrtle Beach.  This was right at the time that the Fairfield resorts were being re-branded as Wyndham.  Among the whoppers he told us as part of his sales pitch:  You need to move your deed here (to Myrtle Beach) because the Myrtle Beach resorts are going to be branded as Wyndham (strongly implying if not outright stating that other Fairfield resorts would not be re-branded) and it was VERY important to have the deed be branded Wyndham.  He also told us that we needed to move our deed because Myrtle Beach has much better trading power than other Wyndham properties.  Again, not true.  Wyndham points in RCI are Wyndham points in RCI.  Your home resort affiliation with Wyndham does not influence the trading power your points receive because you aren't depositing home resort points, you are depositing generic Wyndham points and points are points.  (Unless depositing a fixed week that hasn't been converted to points).  

It is easy for them to confuse people because RCI *does* assign trading power when people deposit non-Wyndham weeks.  Thus, they can show you an article about trading power and RCI, which can be true and misleading at the same time  - because they know that it is NOT applicable to Wyndham owners.  They try to take something they know is a non-issue and make it appear to be an ISSUE that will greatly hinder your ownership if you do not get it corrected.  Once they've got you really nervous and intentionally confused, they offer to get everything straightened out for you - but you will need to make a small developer purchase for them to be able to fix it.


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## rrlongwell (Feb 28, 2011)

learnalot said:


> ... they offer to get everything straightened out for you - but you will need to make a small developer purchase for them to be able to fix it.



It does not appear they have changed much since their beginning except to get more intense with their sales tactics.  Thanks.


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## timeos2 (Feb 28, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I believe the Myrtle Beach Sales staff when I sat through their presentation that they have reduced the number of owners from the old Fairfield days to 11,000 from over 260,000 owners.  They have transferred them to other forms of ownership, so the story goes.



It sounds like they are talking about the relatively small number of pre-points Fairfield owners that had deeded weeks when Fairfield went bankrupt & the then new points system saved them.  Most of those owners bought into points and most of those that didn't ended up regretting that non-move (ask the recently ended FAX weeks owners how happy THEY are with Fairfield/Wyndham).  The vast majority of the remaining unconverted weeks are either very valuable fixed prime time or virtually worthless low value weeks that Wyndham now won't even take into the points system (there are many more of those than the prime weeks holdouts).  Prime weeks can still be converted but at a much greater cost than was offered way back then.  

Most of the lies told by the Wyndham sales weasels tend to have just enough remote basis in a fact to make them seem possible.  But in fact they are misrepresentations and seldom apply to the marks they have targeted.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 1, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> It sounds like they are talking about the relatively small number of pre-points Fairfield owners that had deeded weeks when Fairfield went bankrupt & the then new points system saved them.



Could be.  I have two that were orginally weeks that were converted to points.  The underlying contracts is weeks.  Thanks.


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## Don (Mar 1, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> It sounds like they are talking about the relatively small number of pre-points Fairfield owners that had deeded weeks when Fairfield went bankrupt & the then new points system saved them.  Most of those owners bought into points and most of those that didn't ended up regretting that non-move (ask the recently ended FAX weeks owners how happy THEY are with Fairfield/Wyndham).  The vast majority of the remaining unconverted weeks are either very valuable fixed prime time or virtually worthless low value weeks that Wyndham now won't even take into the points system (there are many more of those than the prime weeks holdouts).  Prime weeks can still be converted but at a much greater cost than was offered way back then.



You must be talking about the places that Fairfield/Wyndham kept after their "problems".  They got completely rid of two of their Myrtle Beach timeshares right off the bat; Sands Beach Club and Sands Ocean Club.  Both are still fixed weeks


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## rrlongwell (Mar 1, 2011)

Don said:


> You must be talking about the places that Fairfield/Wyndham kept after their "problems".  They got completely rid of two of their Myrtle Beach timeshares right off the bat; Sands Beach Club and Sands Ocean Club.  Both are still fixed weeks



Anymore on what happened with the Sands Ocean Club Resort?  Wyndham currently has some sort of relationship with them.  They are selling leases on their behalf.  Did they have the management contract once then were removed?


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## Don (Mar 2, 2011)

I really have no idea.  We bought a Feb. week back in 1988.  My wife is a teacher and we always used it for trading since she couldn't get off during that time.  We have never stayed there.
All I do now is pay my MFs and put it into Wyndham's PIC program.  I have no idea about the inner workings except what is on the web site.
http://www.sandsresorts.com/resorts/oceanclub/


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## rrlongwell (Mar 2, 2011)

Don said:


> I really have no idea.  We bought a Feb. week back in 1988.  My wife is a teacher and we always used it for trading since she couldn't get off during that time.  We have never stayed there.
> All I do now is pay my MFs and put it into Wyndham's PIC program.  I have no idea about the inner workings except what is on the web site.
> http://www.sandsresorts.com/resorts/oceanclub/



Thanks.  For your information, when I was in Myrtle Beach last fall, they were packaging a Sands Lease and then PIC ing it in with a Towers on the Grove property.  That appears to be a version of what you did.  Durinig this stay, they had a sales desk in the Sands lobby.


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## MommaBear (Mar 2, 2011)

Don said:


> Here's an idea.  Next time someone is told that they are not a real owner, demand to be able to pay the fees in Monopoly money.


 :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## mrfred (Mar 2, 2011)

last time we stayed at Kingsgate (Williamburg) and went for our free breakfast and "owner's update", they put us in a separate room, so the potential suckers wouldn't hear about us buying retail for pennies on the dollar.  we must have our account flagged as 'troublemakers'.

(the time before that, I corrected the sales-drone several times on incorrect facts about the Wyndham/Fairshare system.)


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## Don (Mar 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Thanks.  For your information, when I was in Myrtle Beach last fall, they were packaging a Sands Lease and then PIC ing it in with a Towers on the Grove property.  That appears to be a version of what you did.  Durinig this stay, they had a sales desk in the Sands lobby.



Maybe they are going to pick them back up through the WAAM program.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 3, 2011)

Don said:


> Maybe they are going to pick them back up through the WAAM program.



My guess is that discussions are in progress with the Sands to that effect.  Currently, Century 21 is the lead brokerage for the sale of units at the Sands (at least according to their signs that are or were plastered nearby.  The Salestaff indicated that the Sands was not currently up to the Wyndham standards and that they were going to work with them on this issue.

Found this on the internet:  "WVO saw its incremental property management fees decrease in Q3 to $7M from $9M (22%),
year-over-year within the company’s VOI business. For nine months, the fees fell from $25M to $19M
(32%) year-over-year. WVO’s fee-for-service management arm accounts for about 15% of the segment’s
revenues and contributes about $30M in EBITDA annually. Expect that number to increase going forward
as the company focuses on its new Wyndham Asset Affiliation Model (WAAM), which should lead to even
more cash generation for the fee-for-service-based model. WVO recently signed agreements with resorts in
Orlando, Fla., and Myrtle Beach, S.C., that should come online next year. WVO is the largest timeshare
company, with more than 830,000 owners and over 19,750 units at 150 resorts."

Towers on the Grove is probably the Myrtle Beach property that is being reffered to.  Do not know about the Orlando, Florida one.


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## learnalot (Mar 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> My guess is that discussions are in progress with the Sands to that effect.  Currently, Century 21 is the lead brokerage for the sale of units at the Sands (at least according to their signs that are or were plastered nearby.  The Salestaff indicated that the Sands was not currently up to the Wyndham standards and that they were going to work with them on this issue.
> 
> Found this on the internet:  "WVO saw its incremental property management fees decrease in Q3 to $7M from $9M (22%),
> year-over-year within the company’s VOI business. For nine months, the fees fell from $25M to $19M
> ...



The Orlando property is Reunion.


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## Don (Mar 4, 2011)

They should call it the Orlando area.  Its considered to be in Kissimmee according to its address, and is approx 5 mi. west of Irlo Bronson Mem. Pkwy. off of I-4.


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