# [2010] Great Deal on 7000 point HGVC International 2 bedroom annual on eBay



## Gundy (Aug 5, 2010)

I just saw this on eBay. I wish I could purchase it for myself but I'm not in the position. The auction number is 110563017922. It is a 2 bedroom Platinum 7000 point annual unit. The buy it now is only $4,499 with almost all of 2010 points available. I'm not sure if it would pass ROFR as it seems low but worth a try for someone. Thought someone might be interested here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HGVC-Internatio...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item19be11c4c2


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## levatino (Aug 5, 2010)

Another way of looking at this:

My 5000 point Vegas Strip purchased at $2995 carries a lower maintenance fee per point.  Two of those would offer more points at a lower annual fee.  The extra $1,000 up front costs would be offset in a few years with 3,000 extra points to boot.

All that says 7,000 is not gold (and I don't mean season).


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## SmithOp (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm confused, why is it titled HGVC and RCI Gold Crown?  Which is it?  I don't care for these 30 day auctions, and buying the remaining 2010 points this late in the year is no bargain, probably have to rescue them if you have time waiting for it to close.


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## hurnik (Aug 5, 2010)

levatino said:


> Another way of looking at this:
> 
> My 5000 point Vegas Strip purchased at $2995 carries a lower maintenance fee per point.  Two of those would offer more points at a lower annual fee.  The extra $1,000 up front costs would be offset in a few years with 3,000 extra points to boot.
> 
> All that says 7,000 is not gold (and I don't mean season).



You must've gotten a good deal.  I had a 3600 point Vegas Strip and the yearly MF (all fees combined) were about $650/year and that was 5 years ago.  Did the MF drop?

I would think that a 5,000 point vegas strip x2 would be more than $1200/year in total fees.


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## Talent312 (Aug 5, 2010)

SmithOp said:


> I'm confused, why is it titled HGVC and RCI Gold Crown?  Which is it?



Then let me un-confuse you. What they are selling is a HGVC Timeshare. HGVC resorts trade thru the RCI exchange system. 
RCI itself does not own any resorts, but offers the "Gold Crown" designation to the better resorts as a mark of distinction.
So, all the "RCI Gold Crown" words do is show that its a top-notch resort.  Still confused?


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## levatino (Aug 5, 2010)

This Sea World unit is $1136/year MF (.1624 per point).  Some Sea World units have lower fees than this, depending which development phase they are in.  

.16 per point is not a great deal.  My Vegas unit is .156 per point.  Recently Seth was selling 5,800 point Vegas Strip with a maintenance fee of .129 per point.  

My point is to look at the cost per point and factor that into long-term ownership. This seaworld clocks in at .13 per point:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HILTON-Grand-Va...re-/140435390726?pt=Timeshares#ht_4736wt_1137


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## SmithOp (Aug 6, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Then let me un-confuse you. What they are selling is a HGVC Timeshare. HGVC resorts trade thru the RCI exchange system.
> RCI itself does not own any resorts, but offers the "Gold Crown" designation to the better resorts as a mark of distinction.
> So, all the "RCI Gold Crown" words do is show that its a top-notch resort.  Still confused?




All the HGVC properties qualify so it just sounds redundant to me.


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## Talent312 (Aug 6, 2010)

SmithOp said:


> All the HGVC properties qualify [as RCI Gold Crown resorts], so it just sounds redundant to me.



It may be puffery, but to those unfamiliar with the HGVC system, its nice to know.


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## bosco0633 (Aug 7, 2010)

Your logic with purchasing two 5000 points makes no sense. You are an owner at the strip property where the taxes are lower due to the developer still paying while building.  But even so the taxes are not 500 a year.   They are around 700.  But once te developer pulls out it will be around 900 like the other two Vegas units.  

So in the long run two 5000 point units are going to cost more than one 7000. But instead of paying 1100 for one 7000 you will be paying 1800 for 10,000 points. 

So instead of 200.00 more in taxes you will rather pay 700 more for 3000 extra points a year?so the 1000 more that you pay upfront to me is way better than owning 2 5000 points.


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## levatino (Aug 7, 2010)

I am confused: my taxes are around $55  a year.


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## bosco0633 (Aug 7, 2010)

U are talking taxes ???? Not mf. Buddy why is this even a concern if you are only talking taxes.  This should be non issue


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## levatino (Aug 7, 2010)

bosco0633 said:


> Your logic with purchasing two 5000 points makes no sense. You are an owner at the strip property where *the taxes *are lower due to the developer still paying while building.  But even so *the taxes* are not 500 a year.   They are around 700.  But once te developer pulls out it will be around 900 like the other two Vegas units.
> 
> So in the long run two 5000 point units are going to cost more than one 7000. But instead of paying 1100 for one 7000 you will be paying 1800 for 10,000 points.
> 
> So instead of 200.00 more *in taxes* you will rather pay 700 more for 3000 extra points a year?so the 1000 more that you pay upfront to me is way better than owning 2 5000 points.




I am equally confused.  You used the word "taxes" versus my use of maintenance fee.  Am I wrong in looking at the overall cost per point (maintenance, taxes, reserves, etc.)? I understand that MF's potentially increase when a developer leaves, however I have yet to see any historical data in reference to Hilton (as I have for say Wyndham) to indicate a sharp increases.  Does anyone have any?


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## Purseval (Aug 7, 2010)

Looks like somebody bought it, the item is no longer available


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## levatino (Aug 7, 2010)

If you look at ebay's completed auctions it shows that it wasn't purchased.  The selling price shows as red, not green.


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## bosco0633 (Aug 7, 2010)

sorry taxes I mean MF which I include as taxes.  But my point stands about your logic.

what do you pay right now for 5000 points at las vegas strip?

I own a 5000 at las vegas flamingo and pay around 900 (not exact)
I own a 7000 at orlando i drive and pay around 1150 (not exact)

when hilton pulls out of the strip the taxes will be comparable to the other vegas properties.  And by taxes I mean MFs.

So if I wind up buying 2 5000 vegas units then my fees every year will be approx. 1800.00 for 10,000 points each year.

If I own one 7000 point and it costs me 1150.00 each year.

So instead of buying 7000 points because you dont want to pay 1150 each year, you are saying that you would rather buy 10,000 points and pay 1800 each year.  

How is that a better deal??

Also, the add is gone because my friend purchased it, for less than the asking price.  I will let you know how it goes.


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## levatino (Aug 7, 2010)

OK,

My Vegas unit is .156 per point x 5000 points = $780 year

If I own two of them, I am still paying .156 per point

You own a 5000 at las vegas flamingo and pay around 900 (not exact).  that equals .18 per point.  

You own a 7000 at orlando i drive and pay around 1150 (not exact).  For that you pay .164 per point.

The unit Seth was selling at .129 would be even a better deal than either of us have.  And, an 8,400 point penthouse gold at $918 or  .11 per point  would make me wet and mushy inside.

I think any talk of future fees in not worth a buckets worth of spit.  Until you actually get the bill, there are special assessments, acts of God and like variables that make predictions just that.   I own Starwood, I should know!


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## bosco0633 (Aug 8, 2010)

I will agree to disagree. 

Everyone wants what they want.  We obviously have different needs and wants.


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## Purseval (Aug 9, 2010)

levatino said:


> If you look at ebay's completed auctions it shows that it wasn't purchased.  The selling price shows as red, not green.



t was originally a 30-day auction so the seller must have  ended it early for some reason and it hasn't been relisted.  Edit: post #15 explains why it wasn't relisted.


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## letsgosteelers (Aug 11, 2010)

levatino said:


> OK,
> 
> The unit Seth was selling at .129 would be even a better deal than either of us have.  And, an 8,400 point penthouse gold at $918 or  .11 per point  would make me wet and mushy inside.
> 
> I think any talk of future fees in not worth a buckets worth of spit.  Until you actually get the bill, there are special assessments, acts of God and like variables that make predictions just that.   I own Starwood, I should know!



is this still avail?  tks


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## sjuhawk_jd (Aug 11, 2010)

levatino said:


> OK,
> 
> My Vegas unit is .156 per point x 5000 points = $780 year
> 
> ...



This pennies and cents "bean counting" does not matter much when you are dropping over $5K on a vacation!


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## marinskas (Mar 9, 2013)

bosco0633 said:


> the add is gone because my friend purchased it, for less than the asking price.  I will let you know how it goes.



I realize this is almost three years later, but wondering how it went? 

$4,499 for annual 7,000 platinum is better than I have seen so far... 

TS prices seem to defy any market laws - any ideas why prices fluctuate so much? Even today one can find 7,000 Platinum Annual points for $6,000 or all the way up to $15,000 - for what I think is a very comparable offerings (location, MFs, etc)... This is soo confusing.. When you see $7k-$15k prices, then $4,5k seems to good to be true...


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## benyu2010 (Mar 9, 2013)

marinskas said:


> I realize this is almost three years later, but wondering how it went?
> 
> $4,499 for annual 7,000 platinum is better than I have seen so far...
> 
> TS prices seem to defy any market laws - any ideas why prices fluctuate so much? Even today one can find 7,000 Platinum Annual points for $6,000 or all the way up to $15,000 - for what I think is a very comparable offerings (location, MFs, etc)... This is soo confusing.. When you see $7k-$15k prices, then $4,5k seems to good to be true...



it is just listing price...generally speaking, economy and consumer confidence is slightly better than three years ago


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## marinskas (Mar 10, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> it is just listing price...generally speaking, economy and consumer confidence is slightly better than three years ago



Ok - consumer confidence is better - fair enough... Then explain this to me:

Two current postings on Ebay, each with 4,800 Platinum Annual points:
- one at Flamingo currently at $995 with MF $771+CF (Item number 111025272533)
- second at LV Club currently at $2,026 with MF $680 (not sure if this includes CF) (Item number 160986047687);

While these auctions are not over yet, we will see in a few days where they end up. Point being the swings in prices are quite wild for what seems to be a very similar TS... Not sure what I am missing here...If I use a used car analogy - there is more to consider: model, make, year, mileage, condition, options, etc, and even then prices are somewhat similar without such wide variations. With TS: the only few criteria are points, MFs and price for the most part (talking about HGVC system)... Maybe my problem is that I am looking at TS as a business decision, when people are driven more by emotions and not dollars and cents...?

There is another one almost too good to be true, with appearantly no bidders, ending in 8 hours (jump on this somebody - I am still doing research)...:
7,000 annual platinum points at The Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort with MFs of $1,309 going for $4,995...???


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## marinskas (Mar 10, 2013)

By the way - one other question: so I have noticed that sellers on Ebay are for the most part resellers - they sell someone else's timeshare and they sell a lot of them. 

So my natural question is: they also have to make money, so if there was a way to cut out the middle man and go to the owner dirrectly then the deal could get even better...? Where do they find this many owners wanting to unload? I presume owners call them... But then who decides the price - the owner or the reseller?

Sometimes I find myself thinking that the rocket science is piece of cake compared to this TS thing


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## SmithOp (Mar 10, 2013)

marinskas said:


> By the way - one other question: so I have noticed that sellers on Ebay are for the most part resellers - they sell someone else's timeshare and they sell a lot of them.
> 
> So my natural question is: they also have to make money, so if there was a way to cut out the middle man and go to the owner dirrectly then the deal could get even better...? Where do they find this many owners wanting to unload? I presume owners call them... But then who decides the price - the owner or the reseller?
> 
> Sometimes I find myself thinking that the rocket science is piece of cake compared to this TS thing




Now you need to start reading the Buy/Sell forums and learn about Post Card Companies - PCC, that's how they get the inventory.


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## presley (Mar 10, 2013)

marinskas said:


> By the way - one other question: so I have noticed that sellers on Ebay are for the most part resellers - they sell someone else's timeshare and they sell a lot of them.
> 
> So my natural question is: they also have to make money, so if there was a way to cut out the middle man and go to the owner dirrectly then the deal could get even better...? Where do they find this many owners wanting to unload? I presume owners call them... But then who decides the price - the owner or the reseller?
> 
> Sometimes I find myself thinking that the rocket science is piece of cake compared to this TS thing



They offer to take TSs from people for a few thousand dollars.  Typically, someone buys a TS and after 10 years, the MFs have doubled or tripled and they can't afford to pay for it and haven't been using it.  Along comes a company who says, "For $3500.  we guarantee to get you out of your TS."  The owners pay them, sign over their power of attorney and the TSs get listed on Ebay.

By the time they show up on Ebay, the resellers have already made their money off of the owner.


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## Ron98GT (Mar 10, 2013)

SmithOp said:


> All the HGVC properties qualify so it just sounds redundant to me.


But if a specific resort/TS gets run down, RCI can downgrade it, there-by requiring less RCI points (not HGVC) to book it. This happened to the Bay Club a number of years back, but after the renovation it went back to a Gold Crown so it requires more RCI points - if you book it thru RCI. Clear as Mud


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## psychjoe (Mar 18, 2013)

marinskas said:


> Two current postings on Ebay, each with 4,800 Platinum Annual points:
> - one at Flamingo currently at $995 with MF $771+CF (Item number 111025272533)



I've watched the 4800 Flamingo market for about year.  I can tell you they go for almost exactly 3k on eBay.  That's about $800 more than I'd be willing to plunk down on one.  After closing costs and such you're up to close to 4k.


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## Buddman (Mar 18, 2013)

Hello,

We are forgetting that timeshares have no real value beyond what people are willing to pay for them. 

Nobody seems to know how the ratio of points per unit that the developer is selling. My guess is it is significantly higher than is feasible if the timeshare is operating independent of any other sharing or exchange agreements. This effects availability hence the agreements with other timeshare companies (i.e. Club Intrawest) and exchange companies. These agreements help relieve pressure on the availability of timeshare company's own stock and the consequently the developer sells more points (or time). The drawback is devaluation of the points (or time). When a person purchases a week it is no longer one 50th (giving two weeks for maintenance) of a unit but something much smaller.

Too bad.

Bid Low!!


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## DeniseM (Mar 18, 2013)

*Please note that this thread, and the original question, are from 2010.*


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## piyooshj (Mar 19, 2013)

psychjoe said:


> I've watched the 4800 Flamingo market for about year.  I can tell you they go for almost exactly 3k on eBay.  That's about $800 more than I'd be willing to plunk down on one.  After closing costs and such you're up to close to 4k.



Right on:

Bidding has ended on this item. 

4,800 HGVC POINTS @ THE FLAMINGO, LAS VEGAS, NEVADA, TIMESHARE SALE #20712

See original listing 

Ended:  Mar 15, 201320:01:01 PDT
Winning bid: US $3,060.00


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