# Interesting Seapointer development



## susan1738 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've been made an offer of R4000 for my Seapointer unit.  (Listed it with Cape Escapes).  When I got the offer, she told me that a "corporate buyer" was buyiing up 100 units there (could this "corporate buyer" be themselves?).  Seemed interesting to me . . . maybe they are buying up their own condos to resale at developer's prices???  I don't know . . . perhaps I'm just being skeptical and untrusting, which when dealing with this company, I have reason to be considering all I've read here.  Anyway, just wanted to share.


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## rhonda (Aug 23, 2007)

What size unit do you have listed?


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## Sandy (Aug 23, 2007)

Is there any upfront fee? If so, how much?  Also, how long did this sale take from when you listed the unit?

thanks


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## esk444 (Aug 23, 2007)

Does anyone remember how many units the Seapointer had?  Does 88 sound familar, as I vaguely recall?  That would make it 4,400 or so shares.  Well, I think Lamont would have to buy more than a 100 shares to do develop that property.  But at $550 or so per share, he could buy the entire Seapointer for less than $2.5 million (assuming he doesn't already own a huge amount of shares).  That seems like a bargain to me for a 88 unit apartment complex within a few blocks from the shore.   Would $27,500 (50 weeks x $550) buy you a good condo apartment in the Cape Town?


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## susan1738 (Aug 23, 2007)

*More Info*

Rhonda, my unit is a 1 bedroom.

Sandy, yes, there was an upfront fee . . . I think it was about $45, but I can't remember.  I just didn't want to keep paying out more money for something I can't trade, so I thought $45 was a minimal investment to try to get out of the deal.  I had it listed for about 3 months, maybe.  I'll go check my statement and see, but I know I did it this summer sometime.


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## Carolinian (Aug 24, 2007)

It does look like The Bullfrog is trying to crash this resort to sell it off for something else.  One also has to remember that his minions are out trying to con people into turning over their ownership in exchange for points in one of his shady points clubs.


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## susan1738 (Aug 24, 2007)

*Update*

I checked my records and I listed it on July 6th, so that is about a month and a half (rather than 3 months like I had originally thought).  Just wanted to let you know  . . . (my memory is not what it used to be . . . sorry!)


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## Diane (Sep 3, 2007)

Susan, did you accept?  I just received a similar offer, again from CapeEscapes on behalf of a corporate buyer who is buying "more than 100 weeks".  I would not receive payment for from "four to five months."  The buyer would pick up the annual levy from 2008 on. Did you try to negotiate a higher price?  Any specifics you are willing to share would be appreciated. 

Diane


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## Carolinian (Sep 4, 2007)

The ''corporate buyer'' is undoubtedly the Bullfrog.  IMHO this signals step three of their trying to crash the resort.  First was engineering the RCI suspension.  These things don't just happen.  They get the monthly numbers from RCI, and ultimately quite a few warming before it gets to that stage.  They had time to fix things if they wanted to.  Also, during the warning stage, RCI will generally keep exchanges open if they see the resort working to fix things.  The suspension was undoubtedly very deliberate to panic members.  It is not the first time that tactic has been used in South Africa and elsewhere to run off the timeshare members.

Next is to con members into turning in their ownership for a dubious points scheme.  In the Canary Islands, there is an outside outfit used for that purpose in these campaigns, but the Bullfrog has his own.  Some Tuggers have already received that solicitation.

Third is to buy up weeks cheap from those who cannot be conned with the points solicitation.

This is a deal with the devil, but you may not have any other choice. Between these schemes, the Bullfrog may well end up with control, anyway.  But Cape Escapes is a middleman.  You might get a better price by contacting Club Leisure directly yourself and trying to set your own price.


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## Diane (Sep 5, 2007)

Thank you, Carolinian.  Your insight is always appreciated.  As I remember the Leisure group is also controlled by the Bullfrog so by offering to sell to it the most I could probably do is cut out CapeEscape's commission.  Do you agree?  Not to be dismissed, just trying to understand my options.

Do you think that eventually the Bullfrog will in fact significantly improve this property?  Is that part of his pattern?  There would, of course, be a significant special assessment, but perhaps a correspondingly large increase in value?  If he has done this with other properties do you have any idea how long it took him?  I know this is guess work, but I think your guess is better than mine.

Thank you,

Diane


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## Sandy (Sep 5, 2007)

Diane said:


> Susan, did you accept?  I just received a similar offer, again from CapeEscapes on behalf of a corporate buyer who is buying "more than 100 weeks".  I would not receive payment for from "four to five months."  The buyer would pick up the annual levy from 2008 on. Did you try to negotiate a higher price?  Any specifics you are willing to share would be appreciated.
> 
> Diane



HI Diane, 

Did you actually list with CapeEscapes or elsewhere?  Or did your offer come out of the blue - are they contacting all owners?

I ask b/c I listed my unit but have not gotten an offer. 

How much was your offer?
thanks1


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## Diane (Sep 5, 2007)

Sandy, we own a 2 bedroom week 26 at Seapointer and last week were offered R6000  gross with a net to us of R4632.  We bought this week, and others through Cape Escapes and have sold weeks through Cape Escapes  Escapes.  I think I tried listing this particular week and was told that Cape Escapes would not accept it because of the problems there now.  So, Cape Escapes was aware that we were interested in selling even though we didn't actually list.

Have you decided to accept the offer you received?

Diane


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## Carolinian (Sep 6, 2007)

Genuinely improving properties is not his game.  Milking them for all he can is more his cup of tea.  He will likely stampede as many members as he can into one of his dubious points clubs, then try to sell off either the entire property or at least as many of its units as he can as whole ownership units.  Unless the members can get organized and defeat him, and I hear nothing going on so far on that score and it is late in the game, the resort is not likely to have much future. That is regrettable.

If I were in your shoes, I would try an offer to sell of maybe 50% over his offer to buy and see what happens, but I would try it direct instead of through a middleman.




Diane said:


> Thank you, Carolinian.  Your insight is always appreciated.  As I remember the Leisure group is also controlled by the Bullfrog so by offering to sell to it the most I could probably do is cut out CapeEscape's commission.  Do you agree?  Not to be dismissed, just trying to understand my options.
> 
> Do you think that eventually the Bullfrog will in fact significantly improve this property?  Is that part of his pattern?  There would, of course, be a significant special assessment, but perhaps a correspondingly large increase in value?  If he has done this with other properties do you have any idea how long it took him?  I know this is guess work, but I think your guess is better than mine.
> 
> ...


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## Diane (Sep 6, 2007)

Your analysis makes a lot of sense, Carolinian.  Thank you very much.  I had not thought that the resort might be converted to whole ownership or sold off, both of which would fit the pattern seen so far.  I sent off an offer to sell to Club Leisure at approximately 50% more than the offer I received.  Will see what happens and let you know.

Diane


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## susan1738 (Sep 6, 2007)

*Answers to your questions*

Diane, Sandy, and Carolinian,

Yes, I did accept the offer of R4000 and I've received the paperwork; filled it all out; and sent it back.  I didn't make a counter-offer since I really am just grateful to not have to pay the MF's for something I can't use.  

Oh, and by the way, the "corporate buyer" is Flexi Holiday Group.  Ring a bell?  :annoyed:


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## joangrth (Sep 8, 2007)

Say there,  WHO is the "Bullfrog"?


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## joangrth (Sep 8, 2007)

susan1738 said:


> Diane, Sandy, and Carolinian,
> 
> Yes, I did accept the offer of R4000 and I've received the paperwork; filled it all out; and sent it back.  I didn't make a counter-offer since I really am just grateful to not have to pay the MF's for something I can't use.
> 
> Oh, and by the way, the "corporate buyer" is Flexi Holiday Group.  Ring a bell?  :annoyed:


Can you tell me about Flexi Holiday Group?  Your icon indicates bad news abou this organization.


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## grest (Sep 17, 2007)

I contacted the resort this weekend by email, saying that I was aware that units were being bought up, some being brokered by Cape Escape, and asking about a direct sale to Flexi Holiday Group.  I also asked for some explanation about this.  Needless to say, no explanation was forthcoming, and I was referred to Cape Escape for the buyout...Same old same old...I even mentioned Mr. Lamont's name for some spice
Connie


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## Diane (Sep 17, 2007)

About 10 days ago we emailed offers to sell our Seapointer week to Flexi Holiday Club and to the related entity (I forgot the name but both are controlled by Lamont).  We have received no response from either email and I don't think one will be coming.  We will probably accept the Cape Escape offer provided that they agree that any special assessment between now and closing will be the responsibility of "Flexi Holiday Club".  I could see a scenario where the meager proceeds are consumed by a special levy for repairs.

Diane


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## Carolinian (Sep 19, 2007)

joangrth said:


> Can you tell me about Flexi Holiday Group?  Your icon indicates bad news abou this organization.



You may want to scroll through the South Africa page at Crimeshare, www.madtrot.com/77.html , where there is a lot of material on Bullfrog Lamont and his various organizations including Club Leisure Group, Flexi Club, Star Club, CRI.  It there is not enough for you, keep going into the archives at the end.  It goes back years.  There is even an article from the Johannesburg Star newspaper posted in its entirety.


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## grest (Sep 19, 2007)

I'm truly annoyed...and inclined to just resist for the time being...we'll see what the next move is on the part of Bullfrog.
Connie


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## Diane (Sep 19, 2007)

For what it is worth, Flexi Holiday Club has agreed to add language to our sale and purchase documents for our 2 BR week 26 week saying that the sellers' (us) Seapointer obligations terminated with payment of the 2007 levy and that the purchaser (them) is responsible for all obligations arising thereafter, including the 2008 levy and any special or refurbishment levy.

That suggests that any refurbishment levy may be a long way out and that the offer to convert to their point system might be the next move.  My guess, and it is only a guess, is that Lamont will use every ploy he can to acquire as many units/weeks as possible so he ultimately will have enough votes to either convert the building to whole ownership or tear it down and sell the land.  As Carolinion already noted, refurbishment is unlikely.

One question arises:  where was RCI when the warnings we now hear about were given?  Did it have a responsibility to warn its members and exchangers?

Diane


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## Sandy (Sep 19, 2007)

Cape Escapes has indicated that my week (34 and 35) one bedrooms will only bring R3000 each gross, net only R2600. 

Apparently, when Herb sold them to me, although he indicated they were the highest valued weeks, they are only in the middle. :annoyed:  Well, Herb is deceased now....

In any event, I am inclined to try to take this.  Over the years I have enjoyed so  much more than I paid.  To get even some money is probably good. 

Cape Escapes suggests I wait a bit  to see if a higher offer might  come along. 
Not so sure about this.


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## jfbookers (Sep 21, 2007)

*offer from cape escapes*

Just got this back from cape escapes. 

Thank you for your email received to my colleague, Marlize.  We can certainly assist you with marketing your Seapointer week.  As you are aware, the resort is under RCI suspension at the moment; but I have received a corporate offer from a buyer who is purchasing about 50 weeks all over Cape Town.  His offer is low, but if you're wanting to dispose of the Seapointer, then it's an option.

He is offering R3,000.00 gross which netts you R2,316.00 after our 20% comm + VAT.  The offer is based on 2008 occuption, thus your 2007 week would still be for your own use.

Please let me know if you'd be interested.


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## Sandy (Sep 21, 2007)

jfbookers said:


> Just got this back from cape escapes.
> 
> Thank you for your email received to my colleague, Marlize.  We can certainly assist you with marketing your Seapointer week.  As you are aware, the resort is under RCI suspension at the moment; but I have received a corporate offer from a buyer who is purchasing about 50 weeks all over Cape Town.  His offer is low, but if you're wanting to dispose of the Seapointer, then it's an option.
> 
> ...




What do you think about this offer?  My sales person suggested I wait, but that might be a fools' game.  Are you going to take it?
Did you enjoy Seapointer as much as many of us did for fantastic trades?


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## drguy (Sep 21, 2007)

*Repairs*

Seapointer, The 


This Resort is currently undergoing maintainance/Refurbishment from :10/2/06 - 1/12/06.
Just a short walk from the Beach to cosmopolitan Sea Point. Explore the area on foot, or on bicycles. This popular.

http://www.flexiclub.co.za/region.php?id=5.

Thought that this was interesting. Sounds like the repairs are complete since we're now in '07.
Guy


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## marion10 (Sep 22, 2007)

I listed my Seapointer with Cape Escapes about two years ago and never heard a thing. I got an offer of R3,000 from them a few days ago- but I sold the unit to a priavte party a little over a year ago.


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