# Wyndham Flagstaff



## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

I have to say I love Flagstaff.  Going on my 4th day here.  I can see why you all love the Wyndham properities.  This is only my first location but if every location is close to this I think I am going to be really happy.  When I checked in everyone was so pleasant.  No lines at all at 5 PM.  I was shocked.  Nothing like other hotels we have been to.  Got our parking pass and an offer of $100 for attending a presentation of the Wyndham Network.

We got a very nice 1 bedroom deluxe.  It has a great deck on the back of it.  Place is much better then any other place I have been.  Never seen a full kitchen available when I was on vacation.  Wife enjoy cooking so she is having fun.  Love the club house.  Pool is a little bit crowded with the kids.  Wife was able to kick my butt in mini golf.

Went to the Wyndham presentation and heard from all the owners that were there.  They all love it also.  When we meet with the sales guy really nice man.  Not high pressured at all.  Broke down how much we have been spending on our vacations for regular hotel rooms and how much it would be over the next 20 years with Wyndham.  Explained how we could be platinum and get a lot of stays upgraded for half price.  Then went on how the place is great for retires like us (I took early retirement at 55) and how we can pass it down to our kids when we no longer want to travel.  I believe he took care of us.  I heard stories of how timeshares can be and it did not feel like that at all.

I am glad to part of the family.  Really hope to run into some of your over the years.  I am sure I will be coming here for questions once my account can be accessed online.


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## Luanne (Jul 27, 2017)

Did I gather correctly that you bought while at the presentation?  I'm sure others will jump in and tell you to rescind while you can, do some research, and buy resale.

We don't own Wyndham, we do own two "weeks" timeshares that we've had for years.  On a recent visit to San Francisco we stayed in a Wyndham property and opted to go to their presentation.  We took our 26 year old daughter with us.  We were all appalled at how much they wanted for the points.  We knew we weren't going to buy, but it was interesting to hear their pitch.


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## rhonda (Jul 27, 2017)

Wishing you a warm and sincere welcome.  I'm very glad to read your enjoyment of Wyndham Flagstaff as I just confirmed an RCI exchange into that location later this year.  I'm also glad you found this site ... and hope you have both time and interest to entertain the onslaught of info you are about to receive.

Keep you mind open, if you will, to consider rescinding your recent purchase (much as I know you love it) and to explore repurchase of the core features via resale?  You only have a few days from time you signed to rescind ... but you can always repurchase any way you choose after more thorough research and consideration.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks for the advice going into another owner mentioned resell but when we started to talk to the sales man he showed me a memo saying resell points can not do a lot of things.  Then he explained they just launched a new website (which I am being to read about on here) and once it gets 100% they will remove even more items from resell buyers.  He informed me they are removing the right to go to different properties if you are deeded.  He also told me they are going to start charging higher monthly fees for resell then buying directly from them.  So after doing the math it was the best thing to go this way.  He even saved me about $55,000 since I bought on our first stay.


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## MaryBella7 (Jul 27, 2017)

In short, he was lying. Lying in a big way. If anyone has been or will be stripped of rights, it is sadly the people who made direct purchases from Wyndham.

I have over a million resale points. Paid a few thousand for all of them. They don't tell me about resale not getting to use points at the meetings, because they know I know they are lying.


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## Baby Jane (Jul 27, 2017)

It really depends on your perspective. We are VIP Platinum and until the website cock up our only complaint has been the sales pitch whenever you travel. I do not regret buying from developer over resale. Only regret was letting our smoky's go for CWA. I have been looking and for the most part the places we like to travel in off season have been available in the 60 day window and I managed to get the vacation we need with our grandchildren in July for next year. I like getting the discounts and over our lifetime it will have paid for itself. If I buy resale and do not get the VIP benefits I would have to pay more maintenance fees to get the same amount of use my points get me and all the booking and guest fees etc. I am glad for TUG for information but noticed 95% of it is complaints. The resale may work if all you want is one summer week or like some of these guys have millions of points to rent but if you just want to take lots of vacations I think Platinum is the way to go. Just make sure you don't attend anymore sales pitches.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

Baby Jane said:


> It really depends on your perspective. We are VIP Platinum and until the website cock up our only complaint has been the sales pitch whenever you travel. I do not regret buying from developer over resale. Only regret was letting our smoky's go for CWA. I have been looking and for the most part the places we like to travel in off season have been available in the 60 day window and I managed to get the vacation we need with our grandchildren in July for next year. I like getting the discounts and over our lifetime it will have paid for itself. If I buy resale and do not get the VIP benefits I would have to pay more maintenance fees to get the same amount of use my points get me and all the booking and guest fees etc. I am glad for TUG for information but noticed 95% of it is complaints. The resale may work if all you want is one summer week or like some of these guys have millions of points to rent but if you just want to take lots of vacations I think Platinum is the way to go. Just make sure you don't attend anymore sales pitches.



So funny my wife told me no more sales pitches.  She is happy with the purchase but told me a million points is enough for us and the kids.  I think we will save the time on future trips and just skip them.  At least for awhile.


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## spackler (Jul 27, 2017)

Doing Wyndham math, developer points make sense.  Doing actual math, resale does.

The tiny amounts you save on RT fees, HK fees, or the occasional discount never add up to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands you pay upfront for developer points.

(That being said, I'll be enjoying Flagstaff myself in a few months with my near-zero cost resale points.)


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

spackler said:


> Doing Wyndham math, developer points make sense.  Doing actual math, resale does.
> 
> The tiny amounts you save on RT fees, HK fees, or the occasional discount never add up to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands you pay upfront for developer points.
> 
> (That being said, I'll be enjoying Flagstaff myself in a few months with my near-zero cost resale points.)



Are you deeded with Flagstaff or part of the club?  Only ask since he mentioned they would be changing the resell rules here shortly.


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## spackler (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Are you deeded with Flagstaff or part of the club?  Only ask since he mentioned they would be changing the resell rules here shortly.



Timeshare salesmen have been saying that for years; it's a lie.

Ask him to you show you that in writing.  He won't...because he can't.


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## CO skier (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> When we meet with the sales guy really nice man.  Not high pressured at all.





VictorBoc said:


> He even saved me about $55,000 since I bought on our first stay.





VictorBoc said:


> She is happy with the purchase but told me a million points is enough for us and the kids.


Would you like us to help you save about $200,000?

The nice sales guy lied to you. Resale points will continue to work as well as points purchased from the Developer.

You can purchase 1 million resale Club Wyndham Access points for less than $10,000. They will not have the Developer frills that are not worth much, but the CWA points will get you 13-month Advance Priority access to Flagstaff and more than 60 other resorts.

Rescind the contract before it is too late, and you are stuck overpaying. Learn as much as possible before buying a timeshare.

If somehow after all that learning you still think Wyndham Platinum is for you, you can bet you will be able to buy again at the same, or maybe a better price, depending on your negotiating skill.


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## bnoble (Jul 27, 2017)

I also love Wyndham resorts. *Love* them. I've been a happy owner for about a decade now.

However, do yourself a favor, and rescind. Then, do some research. If you later decide that the extra benefits of buying directly from Wyndham are worth the extra cost it takes to buy that way, then call the sales office at Flagstaff and ask them to re-write the deal you just signed. They will fall all over themselves to write it up.

But, if you instead decide that a resale purchase makes more sense for you and your family's vacation needs, then you'll have a lot more cash on hand to do all those other things one does on vacation---going out to eat, going on tours, etc.


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## cayman01 (Jul 27, 2017)

To give you some perspective we bought 1.4 million points for a little over $10k. We paid a PREMIUM resale because it is a Presidential Reserve contract and carries a much LOWER maintenance fee cost. $4.52/1000 pts. Compare that with what you have.

 Now, on to VIP. With the new changes in rules your ability to get discounts will be reduced. Not saying you won't get some ( you will) but not near as many as the salesperson told you. Also, the VIP benefits are the only real difference between buying resale and directly from Wyndham. Is it worth the extra $100k+ that VIP owners pay? Most here will say not. I would agree with them. There are other benefits to VIP, unlimited Transactions, unlimited housekeeping, but not enough to justify the cost for them.

 If you still have time to rescind I would do it and then come back here and educate yourself some more about Wyndham and their system. The  resorts are really nice. In our first year of ownership we have stayed at Bonnet Creek three times, Sapphire Valley, Smokey Mountains and Ocean Ridge with upcoming trips to Star Island,Flagstaff, Angel Fire, Pagosa Springs, and three Bonnet Creek ressies. AND we will have about 400,000 points leftover for RCI deposit. We don't really NEED the discounts.

 I have no complaints about the resorts other than the sales people. They lie like a rug and do it in the nicest way possible. And then when you say no they tend to get nasty. Fortunately you didn't see the bad side to the salespeople. UNfortunately your knowledge of Wyndham was limited when you went to the meeting. Take the time to educate yourself and then if you still want to buy direct go ahead. The deal will still be there, I guarantee it.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

Thank you everyone who responded.  I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife.  I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want.  I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.

So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham.  Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000.  Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000.  Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get.  It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out.  If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?


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## bnoble (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want.


After doing your research, you will learn whether this is a legitimate fear or not. If you decide it is a legitimate fear, then you can always buy points again directly from Wyndham, at the price you have today.

That's the beauty of rescinding---you can always re-do the deal if you decide you want to. However, if you don't rescind by the deadline, then you _can't _undo the deal if you later decide you should have.


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## MaryBella7 (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.



Wyndham just changed A LOT of the perks of buying from them - mainly in the way the discount system works.  Guess who was the least impacted by all of the current changes? Resale owners.  They have been telling the same story for years.

Did they also tell you you could cancel reservations and rebook at a discount?  Did they tell you you would get automatic upgrades?  Did you buy into VIP or did you get some bonus points for temporary VIP?  Did they tell you your Wyndham Rewards card would pay off your maintenance fees?  Did they tell you that you would get to go on cruises or pay for airfare with unused points? Did they tell you that you would get great last minute vacations through RCI at a huge discount? If so and if those are some of the things that led to your decision to purchase, rescind and research.  Believe me, your "deal" will be there whenever you want it should you choose to buy it later.  Or you can get CWA resale and by virtue of the type of purchase/points that they are, you will have access to most of the resorts that they cannot take away.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Wyndham vacations.  I also LOVE that I paid so little for them.  I get into the same 4 bedroom Presidential units that those who purchased from the developer get into at 10 months.


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## paxsarah (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thank you everyone who responded.  I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife.  I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want.  I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.
> 
> So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham.  Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000.  Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000.  Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get.  It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out.  If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?



As others have said, the sales lie that resale points will be limited in some way has been around for a long time. I bought my resale points in 2010, and here's an example of basically the same story in 2009: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...included-in-points-system.104394/#post-775601

Spoiler alert: my points still spend just fine to the present day. I've stayed at various Wyndham resorts, used ARP for summer beach weeks, and exchanged and purchased cash vacations through RCI. Because we take longer (5-7 day) vacations, I think we've paid for housekeeping fees maybe once, and I think I've averaged probably less than one paid reservation transaction per year. We really enjoy our Wyndham ownership and haven't found it to be devalued because we're resale owners.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

lhumes7 said:


> Wyndham just changed A LOT of the perks of buying from them - mainly in the way the discount system works.  Guess who was the least impacted by all of the current changes? Resale owners.  They have been telling the same story for years.
> 
> Did they also tell you you could cancel reservations and rebook at a discount?  Did they tell you you would get automatic upgrades?  Did you buy into VIP or did you get some bonus points for temporary VIP?  Did they tell you your Wyndham Rewards card would pay off your maintenance fees?  Did they tell you that you would get to go on cruises or pay for airfare with unused points? Did they tell you that you would get great last minute vacations through RCI at a huge discount? If so and if those are some of the things that led to your decision to purchase, rescind and research.  Believe me, your "deal" will be there whenever you want it should you choose to buy it later.  Or you can get CWA resale and by virtue of the type of purchase/points that they are, you will have access to most of the resorts that they cannot take away.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Wyndham vacations.  I also LOVE that I paid so little for them.  I get into the same 4 bedroom Presidential units that those who purchased from the developer get into at 10 months.




He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.  
Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
I bought a million points with no bonus points.
No offer of a credit card.
He mentioned I could use the points for air travel and then lowered his voice and told me it is not worth it.  Not sure if he is supposed to mention it can be and that is why he said that part louder.
Talked about RCI a little bit but did not go into much detail.
I bought it this morning so I have a couple of days to really think about it.  I can get the letter out on Saturday if I decide to go that way.

Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.


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## rhonda (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000.


Is it important to you that this large ticket purchase _maintain value_ outside your own personal enjoyment?  

There are two components to this purchase:  

The Wyndham CWA points.  This is the core feature which enables you to book reservations within the network of Wyndham CWA properties.  This component can be resold/transferred, if needed, but has a much lower resale market value than you might expect.
The Wyndham "fluff."  This is a large blanket of promises from the developer.  Some features have monitory value (like free housekeeping) allowing you to determine your value on the feature.  Others, like a cruise exchange, you might use _now and again _as a convenience but not likely at a cost savings.  This component has an excessive price tag for buy-in but cannot be resold or transferred except to your immediate family.  If you choose to sell or downsize the holdings, the next recipient cannot benefit from these incidentals.
As you evaluate, be mindful that many of the promises of "you _can do_ this or that" don't wash out well when evaluated for "things you _should do_" (financial tradeoff, etc.).

Best wishes with a difficult analysis you hadn't planned to do while on vacation.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

paxsarah said:


> As others have said, the sales lie that resale points will be limited in some way has been around for a long time. I bought my resale points in 2010, and here's an example of basically the same story in 2009: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...included-in-points-system.104394/#post-775601
> 
> Spoiler alert: my points still spend just fine to the present day. I've stayed at various Wyndham resorts, used ARP for summer beach weeks, and exchanged and purchased cash vacations through RCI. Because we take longer (5-7 day) vacations, I think we've paid for housekeeping fees maybe once, and I think I've averaged probably less than one paid reservation transaction per year. We really enjoy our Wyndham ownership and haven't found it to be devalued because we're resale owners.



Thank you for the thread.  Glad to see they have been saying that for 8 years now.  He just sounded really confident.  Guess I shouldn't be too worried about that anymore.


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## cayman01 (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
> Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
> I bought a million points with no bonus points.
> No offer of a credit card.
> ...


No, $195k is not a good price. The original tag on the resale I bought was $175k and that was for well over one million points AND included Presidential Reserve. AND do NOT talk to the salesperson. He stands to make as much as  $30k  on this sale and will do or say ANYTHING to make sure it stays sold.


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## dagger1 (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thank you everyone who responded.  I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife.  I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want.  I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.
> 
> So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham.  Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000.  Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000.  Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get.  It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out.  If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?


We bought 1,087,000 CWA points Club Wyndham Access) for $4200 TOTAL. Imagine putting $190,000 in a 6-7% tax free municipal trust.  You will earn $12-$14K annually tax free) to pay your $6600 annual MF's and other travel miscellaneous.  AND you will keep your $190K plus have your million CWA points.  As you said, CWA points have ARP at 60 plus resorts.  They lied when they said you will not be able to use resell points.  This is what they do.  Rescind tomorrow!  Then spend some time here on TUG, read every post  on the Wyndham thread.  You can always buy from the developer.


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## dagger1 (Jul 27, 2017)

Also, I assume you like Flagstaff better than Sedona.  We will be at both in September, at Wyndham Flagstaff and Sedona.  But we also booked three nights at Hyatt Pinon Pointe (Sedona) for our daughter.  The Hyatt is MUCH nicer than the Wyndham....  TS's are NOT the same quality...  Do some research before you drop $200K.  AND JOIN TUG asap!!!


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## Railman83 (Jul 27, 2017)

So I know you've heard people here tell you that resale is better but you fear getting stuck with resale points you can't use and you aren't sure if a bunch of strangers on a message board are right about resale not losing its use.

Approach this another way.   If Wyndham ever restricted resale like the salesman said, why would anyone ever buy a developer timeshare that no body would ever want?   Wyndham can't destroy resale or no one would ever buy something that can't be unloaded.

Even if the could you hold a deeded property and if they started refusing your program fee, inventory at key places dries up for everybody, including VIP 

Every timeshare system faces this same problem.  Disney keeps a rofr price floor but Wyndham would go broke trying that because they have 50 years of inventory.

Somewhere there is a retail buyer just like you but 50 years older and can't travel.  What does he do?   He dumps it to guys like us.   





VictorBoc said:


> He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
> Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
> I bought a million points with no bonus points.
> No offer of a credit card.
> ...


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## MaryBella7 (Jul 27, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
> Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
> I bought a million points with no bonus points.
> No offer of a credit card.
> ...




I am glad that you were not fed as much garbage as many are in a sales presentation.  

You paid about $190,000 more for your points than you would for a resale CWA contract.  If you needed or wanted to sell your timeshare next year (or next week), you would get about $190,000 less than you just paid.  That is NOT a good deal.  VIP is nice, don't get me wrong, but for me, it isn't $190,000 nice - the only difference I see is no newspaper at my door in the morning, and I don't have the ability to get places at a discount that I likely wouldn't be able to get anyway since I have to travel during prime time for the most part.  

If you have it to spend, and you want to spend it, by all means do it.  I am not bashing you - I wish I could have that ability!  If you are only worried about resale losing the ability to book multiple places, just get a CWA resale and save yourself a LOT of money.


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## VictorBoc (Jul 27, 2017)

Thank you so much everyone.  Once my wife gets back tonight, she went out with a friend tonight we will discuss.  I will update tomorrow on which way we go.  I think I know the right thing to do now.


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## bestpal38 (Jul 27, 2017)

Baby Jane said:


> It really depends on your perspective. We are VIP Platinum and until the website cock up our only complaint has been the sales pitch whenever you travel. I do not regret buying from developer over resale. Only regret was letting our smoky's go for CWA. I have been looking and for the most part the places we like to travel in off season have been available in the 60 day window and I managed to get the vacation we need with our grandchildren in July for next year. I like getting the discounts and over our lifetime it will have paid for itself. If I buy resale and do not get the VIP benefits I would have to pay more maintenance fees to get the same amount of use my points get me and all the booking and guest fees etc. I am glad for TUG for information but noticed 95% of it is complaints. The resale may work if all you want is one summer week or like some of these guys have millions of points to rent but if you just want to take lots of vacations I think Platinum is the way to go. Just make sure you don't attend anymore sales pitches.


I disagree with the sales pitch part. I go every chance I get. It's a game for me. I'm not rude, until they are. I listen, and I say no thanks, and I collect my $100. 6 sales pitches a year, and I have paid about 25% of my Maint fees. Sometimes I play hard to get, and end up with $125 or even $150 gift card.


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## nicemann (Jul 27, 2017)

I have to agree with everyone else on here.  Send in your paperwork to rescind.  I love Flagstaff.  In fact we have another trip there in 3 months. It's a very laid back place.  Not worth the $195,000.  To give you an example, a 1,183,000 point CWA just sold on eBay for $6,100.  Now some would even say that is overpriced but that was 12 days ago.  So think about how much money you would save.  I think dagger1 did a great job of explaining a better way to invest the money.

It's your money and do as you want.  Just make sure you know what you are getting into.


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## foundyoubyaccident (Jul 28, 2017)

Hey VictorBoc, welcome to the family whatever you and your wife decide.  My husband and I have both retail and resale points.  We love Wyndham too, even if we do get frustrated with them.  We used there loyalty program on hotels for a couple of years before they sold us a timeshare, they hooked my husband.  I started buying resale.  I have a fixed week at our favorite place, and 3  points contracts, one was given to me here, one i purchased on ebay, and one bought from the developer.   I hope you and your wife have a wonderful rest of your vacation!


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## rhonda (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
> Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
> *I bought a million points with no bonus points.*
> No offer of a credit card.
> ...


So $195k for 1M points is $0.195 per point.  And you received no bonus points. 

See the message posted just a few moments ago where a buyer of smaller quantity got a better deal:

$18k for 126k points (~$0.14 per point) plus an added 274k bonus points for the first year
Don't you think you deserved better for buying a larger quantity?  (Said tongue in cheek.  I don't think you should go back to sales demanding a better deal ... but instead quietly submit the letter of recision provided in your sales package.  It could be located within a hidden pocket.)



Laesquiv said:


> My parents were offered a timeshare at Wyndham Bonnet Creek; $18,000 400,000 points for the first 21 months, after that 126,000 points and unlimited last calls. We travel once or twice a year. We agreed to the terms a few days ago but now we're rethinking because we don't know much on timeshares. Any advice?


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## VictorBoc (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  The wife and I spent a lot of time last night thinking about it.  We did send out the rescind document this morning to both address certified mail.  I think we will go with resell and save the extra money.  I agree we could invest that money and probably make enough to cover the yearly MF fees.  Who cares if we are not special and get to call ourselves VIP we will live with being lower class citizens.  

Last night we did go to the club house and was also talking to someone else that bought the same time we did.  They were offered 275,000 points for $35,475.  So that comes out to .129 counts per point.  They got 275,000 more in bonus points.  I was ticked off.  Now my wife on the other hand does not have a filter.  She went back in the office this morning after we mailed the paperwork and went off in the lobby talking about how they are taking advantage of the elder people.  This was when they were getting another group to go in.  She explained in a very loud voice to everyone sitting in the waiting area how younger people get a much lower price and bonus points.  Sales person came over towards us and the manager told him to go to the conference room with his new couple.  Of course he started to tell us we had options we could possiblity relook at the bonus points.  Told him we already sent in the letter and we are done.  My wife wasn't she wanted to go for round two, I almost had to drag her out of there.  God I love that woman.


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## rhonda (Jul 28, 2017)

@VictorBoc: Three cheers to you both!  
Hope you stick around. Timeshares are great fun ... slightly _addictive_ ... but great fun.


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## kukenan (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.  The wife and I spent a lot of time last night thinking about it.  We did send out the rescind document this morning to both address certified mail.  I think we will go with resell and save the extra money.



Congrats on saving your money. Read read and read again this forum, use the search function, and then you can purchase what you want, resale of course


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## Deb from NC (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.  The wife and I spent a lot of time last night thinking about it.  We did send out the rescind document this morning to both address certified mail.  I think we will go with resell and save the extra money.  I agree we could invest that money and probably make enough to cover the yearly MF fees.  Who cares if we are not special and get to call ourselves VIP we will live with being lower class citizens.
> 
> Last night we did go to the club house and was also talking to someone else that bought the same time we did.  They were offered 275,000 points for $35,475.  So that comes out to .129 counts per point.  They got 275,000 more in bonus points.  I was ticked off.  Now my wife on the other hand does not have a filter.  She went back in the office this morning after we mailed the paperwork and went off in the lobby talking about how they are taking advantage of the elder people.  This was when they were getting another group to go in.  She explained in a very loud voice to everyone sitting in the waiting area how younger people get a much lower price and bonus points.  Sales person came over towards us and the manager told him to go to the conference room with his new couple.  Of course he started to tell us we had options we could possiblity relook at the bonus points.  Told him we already sent in the letter and we are done.  My wife wasn't she wanted to go for round two, I almost had to drag her out of there.  God I love that woman.



Just an FYI, I own about 210,000 points at Wyndham Flagstaff.  We love it there too.  I paid
$800.00 for it, which included closing costs, from Sumday Vacations.  We have owned it for at least 6 or 7 years with no problems...other than the new Wyndham website, which is affecting everyone who owns a Wyndham property.  Listen to everyone and buy resale!


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## VictorBoc (Jul 28, 2017)

Deb from NC said:


> Just an FYI, I own about 210,000 points at Wyndham Flagstaff.  We love it there too.  I paid
> $800.00 for it, which included closing costs, from Sumday Vacations.  We have owned it for at least 6 or 7 years with no problems...other than the new Wyndham website, which is affecting everyone who owns a Wyndham property.  Listen to everyone and buy resale!



Thanks.  I will have to look at Sumdays.  We have already decided to go with the resell.  We don't want to waste anymore time staying in regular hotel rooms.  I read it takes a long time for a transfer to get finalized.  We want to start living the Wyndham life as my wife said called it last night.


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## Deb from NC (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks.  I will have to look at Sumdays.  We have already decided to go with the resell.  We don't want to waste anymore time staying in regular hotel rooms.  I read it takes a long time for a transfer to get finalized.  We want to start living the Wyndham life as my wife said called it last night.



Good luck, I'm sure you will find a good bargain on the resale market soon!


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## dagger1 (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thank you so much everyone.  Once my wife gets back tonight, she went out with a friend tonight we will discuss.  I will update tomorrow on which way we go.  I think I know the right thing to do now.


Enjoy!


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## cayman01 (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks.  I will have to look at Sumdays.  We have already decided to go with the resell.  We don't want to waste anymore time staying in regular hotel rooms.  I read it takes a long time for a transfer to get finalized.  We want to start living the Wyndham life as my wife said called it last night.



As I said before, outside of the sales group and the current website, Wyndham has an excellent product. The resorts are very nice and the staff (outside of sales) is very accommodating. Don't let the sales experience spoil it. Take your time educating yourself here on TUG, and figure out what you two really want from Wyndham. Ask lots of questions, we have answers here. Then look to buy something resale. Looking forward to first trip to Flagstaff next month myself.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thank you so much everyone.  Once my wife gets back tonight, she went out with a friend tonight we will discuss.  I will update tomorrow on which way we go.  I think I know the right thing to do now.


Did they offer a price for Silver or Gold membership besides platinum,?


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## vikingsholm (Jul 28, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.  The wife and I spent a lot of time last night thinking about it.  We did send out the rescind document this morning to both address certified mail.  I think we will go with resell and save the extra money.  I agree we could invest that money and probably make enough to cover the yearly MF fees.  Who cares if we are not special and get to call ourselves VIP we will live with being lower class citizens.
> 
> Last night we did go to the club house and was also talking to someone else that bought the same time we did.  They were offered 275,000 points for $35,475.  So that comes out to .129 counts per point.  They got 275,000 more in bonus points.  I was ticked off.  Now my wife on the other hand does not have a filter.  She went back in the office this morning after we mailed the paperwork and went off in the lobby talking about how they are taking advantage of the elder people.  This was when they were getting another group to go in.  She explained in a very loud voice to everyone sitting in the waiting area how younger people get a much lower price and bonus points.  Sales person came over towards us and the manager told him to go to the conference room with his new couple.  Of course he started to tell us we had options we could possiblity relook at the bonus points.  Told him we already sent in the letter and we are done.  My wife wasn't she wanted to go for round two, I almost had to drag her out of there.  God I love that woman.



That's funny as hell, Vic. I would have loved to have seen that. I'm sure the salesmen were freaking out but probably hiding it.

What everyone here said is correct. Timesharing is great and can be very cost effective, if you learn how to do it right. There are lots of tricks to buying on the cheap, making the best reservations, and optimizing your trades too. Time spent going through past threads about that on this site is well worth it. There's also a definite satisfaction in working the systems for getting the best out of them.


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## breezez (Jul 29, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible.  They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
> Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
> I bought a million points with no bonus points.
> No offer of a credit card.
> ...




Hell NO!  $195K is not worth it.   If I buy the same amount of points for $10K resell I save $185K on day one.

Let's say you get every booking 50% off.   Then I would need 2 million points to stay as much as you.  So say I buy 2 million CWA points for $20K.  I have still spent  $175K less than you.

If I buy 2 million points My MF's will be double yours say $6K more a year than yours.  Since I have spent $175k less than you / $6K more a year it would take over 29 years for your VIP account to break even with what I paid.

Reality you will not book no where near 100% of your stays at 50% discount.   To get the discount you loose your ARP your happy with.

Some might say yah but MF increase every year so developer purchase will break even sooner.

I'm sure you paid up front so $175K extra you paid up front put into an investment account earning 7% APY would earn $12,250 per year or more than 100% my MF for 2 million points.

So the only real benefit you get is possibly an upgraded unit at times.   

Do yourself a favor rescind now and save yourself a boat load of money.

One last thing, your kids may not see it as a benefit leaving them a timeshare.   They may not be at a place in life they can afford thousands on MF's so if you pass and the deny the inheritance your money and what you see as an asset will go back to Wyndham.   By saving money buying resell you can pass that savings on when you pass and I'm sure that they would see as an asset they want or possibly need.


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## IT Guy (Jul 29, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks.  I will have to look at Sumdays.  We have already decided to go with the resell.  We don't want to waste anymore time staying in regular hotel rooms.  I read it takes a long time for a transfer to get finalized.  We want to start living the Wyndham life as my wife said called it last night.



Be sure to look at the Timeshare Market Place here in TUG as well.  There is a 1,324,000 Club Wyndham Access contract listed that I know the owner would take $6K for.  Good Luck.


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## dagger1 (Jul 29, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Who cares if we are not special and get to call ourselves VIP we will live with being lower class citizens.


Not sure what you mean by being "not special" and "being lower class citizens". By rescinding you have become extremely special and lucky.  You are a first class citizen now, and not a sucker conned by the "title" VIP and the other financially disastrous nonsense Wyndham sales reps push...  With the $190K you are saving AND the $12-$15K ANNUALLY you will earn with this money plucked out of Wyndham's pocket, you are definitely a "higher class citizen" now.


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## rapmarks (Jul 29, 2017)

Reading what the salesman told you, makes my blood boil.  Let me ask you this, if resale owners aren't allowed to do all the things that were said, how would you ever be able to sell your ownership.  No one would ever buy it.  Did he also tell you that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ronparise (Jul 29, 2017)

breezez said:


> Hell NO!  $195K is not worth it.   If I buy the same amount of points for $10K resell I save $185K on day one.
> 
> Let's say you get every booking 50% off.   Then I would need 2 million points to stay as much as you.  So say I buy 2 million CWA points for $20K.  I have still spent  $175K less than you.
> 
> ...




also consider that at the end of the 30 year break even period, The guy that spent the $195k up front has a million points worth   $5000 and the guy that bought the 2 million points owns 2 million points worth $10000 and he still has his investment account. Assuming no appreciation, (Id buy 30 year tax free munis) its still worth $175000


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## Braindead (Jul 29, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.


No that is not a good price.
$160,000.00 to $165,000.00 would be a good price for 1,001,000 points and get one million bonus points if you do want to stay with a direct purchase from Wyndham. 
I personally would not buy over 500k CWA and then would buy 500k at a low maintenance fee resort.
Buy your 500k CWA points now for $80,000.00 plus 500k bonus points making you Platinum for 2 years. Then you have 2 years to decide if you want to buy more from Wyndham or buy resale.

I'm not going to tell you to buy resale or from Wyndham. I think that is a personal decision that has several factors.
Your personal finances.
How much is it worth to you to reserve a certain room at a resort ? Best views. Corner or larger square foot unit.
When do you travel ? More likely to get discounts and upgrades at lower demand times.
Where do you travel ? Some resorts you will be more likely to get discounts and upgrades about anytime.

We can all put different values on items. Some are happy to be in any room and put no value in which room they are in. I enjoy sitting outside in the early mornings and evenings. Being able to pick a room with the best view is important to me and I'm willing to pay for that [VIP Platinum].

You have a total mix here.
Some bought from Wyndham and are happy they did-some regret that they bought from Wyndham 
Some have only bought resell and are perfectly happy with that.
Some bought resell first and then bought from Wyndham and are happy with that,
Some bought from Wyndham and then added resale points to their ownership 

I just don't think it's a one shoe fits all decision. Inform yourself and then do what's best for you personally!!!


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## VictorBoc (Jul 29, 2017)

Lst night the sales manager decided to stop by our room.  He wanted to talk and offer an apology for the misunderstanding.  I wouldn't even let him in the room.  I'm done with them messing with our vacation.  Thanks again for everyone's advice.  I did have some message me saying that is a broker and they have a little over a million CWA for sell for $6,500 and I may take them up on it.  Huge savings for us.


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## bnoble (Jul 29, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> We don't want to waste anymore time staying in regular hotel rooms.


Good for you.

My family of four is sitting in a 1BR+loft/2 bath unit in Northern Michigan right now. Not the poshest place, but a lovely view of Lake Bellaire, and a great home base for exploring everything from the Leelanau Peninsula to Mackinac Island and everything in between. Every time we go on one of these trips we wonder how it is possible that a family of four spends a week in a hotel room, yet somehow they do.


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## breezez (Jul 29, 2017)

Victor glad you saved yourself a ton of money

Here is a video showing how timeshare sales people think of you when your not in the room.


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## MaryBella7 (Jul 29, 2017)

I am so happy to hear this. Your wife sounds like a spitfire - my kinda gal!  Good for you both!


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## VictorBoc (Jul 29, 2017)

breezez said:


> Victor glade you saved your self a ton of money
> 
> Here is a video showing how timeshare sales people think of you when your not in the room.



Wow I love that video.  Would not be surprised if that salesman went bragging to all his co workers about what a sucker he got.


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## Jan M. (Jul 29, 2017)

bnoble said:


> Good for you.
> 
> My family of four is sitting in a 1BR+loft/2 bath unit in Northern Michigan right now. Not the poshest place, but a lovely view of Lake Bellaire, and a great home base for exploring everything from the Leelanau Peninsula to Mackinac Island and everything in between. Every time we go on one of these trips we wonder how it is possible that a family of four spends a week in a hotel room, yet somehow they do.



On Thursday our son and his family spent the night at the Kalahari Resort and Waterpark in Sandusky, Ohio. They had a decently sized suite with the mini frig and microwave. Their five year old daugher is a timeshare veteran from her many trips to stay with us in Florida and a few visits with her parents too. She usually stays for three weeks four times a year when I bring her down to stay with us and we go to Orlando and Sanibel too if I can find something on Sanibel. She took one look at their room and announced that it was really small with a look on her face that clearly said she was used to better. Our son told her that they were there for the waterpark and would only be in the room to sleep so it was fine. BTW she did have a wonderful time at the waterpark with her parents and little sister who is now 1. Our son and DIL thought it was too funny and called to inform us that their daughter is a snob thanks to us!

My husband and I decided to make a list of the resorts she's stayed at.

In Orlando:
Wyndham Bonnet Creek, in the presidential units, Reunion, Star Island and Cypress Palms
Disney's Animal Kingdom and Saratoga Springs
Vacation Village at Parkway

In Pompano Beach:
Wyndham Sea Gardens and Palm-Aire

On Sanibel:
Casa Ybel, a Hilton Grand Vacation Club Resort, and Caribe Beach Resort. The units at the Caribe are the smallest she's ever stayed in but we all love that resort and have stayed there a number of times with her.


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## e.bram (Jul 30, 2017)

lhumes7 said:


> I am glad that you were not fed as much garbage as many are in a sales presentation.
> 
> You paid about $190,000 more for your points than you would for a resale CWA contract.  If you needed or wanted to sell your timeshare next year (or next week), you would get about $190,000 less than you just paid.  That is NOT a good deal.  VIP is nice, don't get me wrong, but for me, it isn't $190,000 nice - the only difference I see is no newspaper at my door in the morning, and I don't have the ability to get places at a discount that I likely wouldn't be able to get anyway since I have to travel during prime time for the most part.
> 
> If you have it to spend, and you want to spend it, by all means do it.  I am not bashing you - I wish I could have that ability!  If you are only worried about resale losing the ability to book multiple places, just get a CWA resale and save yourself a LOT of money.



$190,000.00 for a timeshare? You must be kidding!


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## wjappraise (Jul 30, 2017)

lhumes7 said:


> In short, he was lying. Lying in a big way. If anyone has been or will be stripped of rights, it is sadly the people who made direct purchases from Wyndham.
> 
> I have over a million resale points. Paid a few thousand for all of them. They don't tell me about resale not getting to use points at the meetings, because they know I know they are lying.



I have over a Million developer purchased points.  The rest are resale. The new website DESTROYS my value in use of the developer points.  So the salesman entirely misled you.  

In Wyndham's rush to change the rules and usher in a new website they have completely ruined my very expensive developer points.  I have been impacted far more as a developer points purchaser than if I had bought all resale.  

Just a reality check for you.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ronparise (Jul 30, 2017)

e.bram said:


> $190,000.00 for a timeshare? You must be kidding!


A timeshare implies A week. And yes $190k for a week does seem excessive. But a platinum ownership with Wyndham is more than one week At my favorite resort a million points will get you closer to 8 weeks,  so do the math and you see $1.2 million will get you the equivalent of a whole ownership. Still excessive but not completely out of line

There are lots of folks here that have paid full price for their wyndhan ownership. There no need to insult them


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## dagger1 (Jul 30, 2017)

ronparise said:


> A timeshare implies A week. And yes $190k for a week does seem excessive. But a platinum ownership with Wyndham is more than one week At my favorite resort a million points will get you closer to 8 weeks,  so do the math and you see $1.2 million will get you the equivalent of a whole ownership. Still excessive but not completely out of line
> 
> There are lots of folks here that have paid full price for their wyndhan ownership. There no need to insult them


True.  But, Ron, wouldn't the $1.2M investment in 6 million points also buy you the right to pay $36,000/year plus or minus in MF's.  Could you rent a 2BR condo in the area you specified for $3K per month and allow you to keep the $1.2M, possibly earning you $72K-$84K per year in investment income?  
But I agree completely, no need for insults at all here!!


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## ronparise (Jul 31, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> True.  But, Ron, wouldn't the $1.2M investment in 6 million points also buy you the right to pay $36,000/year plus or minus in MF's.  Could you rent a 2BR condo in the area you specified for $3K per month and allow you to keep the $1.2M, possibly earning you $72K-$84K per year in investment income?
> But I agree completely, no need for insults at all here!!



absolutely right and thats similar the argument  I learned from a guy I met on the old Wyndham owners forum (he went by the name PacoMountainside here on TUg) when I first started buying Wyndham timeshares to argue against developer purchases and for the secondary market

That wyndham is able to sell $200000 condos for over a million bucks is ridiculous, but thats what they do 

regarding $190000 for a timeshare... Over the last 7 years Ive, never added it up, but Im pretty sure Ive spent at least that much. (except for the first $1000 it all came from cash flow, but still over $190000)  and Ive made developer purchases too, at the same price per point. 

Perhaps my skin has thinned recently, but I read an insult in what e.bram posted. And thats what I was speaking to here.


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## dagger1 (Jul 31, 2017)

ronparise said:


> absolutely right and thats similar the argument  I learned from a guy I met on the old Wyndham owners forum (he went by the name PacoMountainside here on TUg) when I first started buying Wyndham timeshares to argue against developer purchases and for the secondary market
> 
> That wyndham is able to sell $200000 condos for over a million bucks is ridiculous, but thats what they do
> 
> ...


You are exactly right, as usual, Ron!!  And to be perfectly honest, it was great to read your post.  I, (and a lot of other folks), are missing your input on not just Wyndham, but all things TS.  You must be enjoying your boat!!!


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## foundyoubyaccident (Jul 31, 2017)

You may want to pick up some worldmark credits since resale wyndham won't work on worldmark resorts.


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## ronparise (Jul 31, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> You are exactly right, as usual, Ron!!  And to be perfectly honest, it was great to read your post.  I, (and a lot of other folks), are missing your input on not just Wyndham, but all things TS.  You must be enjoying your boat!!!



Until August of last year I was on line 4 hours or so every day, managing what i owned, and I kept TUG open much of that time.

Since August I have much less to do and much less to say


Regarding the boat, this is what I had to look at from my aft deck on July 4th

yes I enjoyed it, but Im back home now>>>> The problem is that we enjoyed it too much... my wife wants a bigger boat.


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## markb53 (Jul 31, 2017)

ronparise said:


> Until August of last year I was on line 4 hours or so every day, managing what i owned, and I kept TUG open much of that time.
> 
> Since August I have much less to do and much less to say
> 
> ...



Your wife looks like she fits very nicely on that boat. ;-)


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## nicemann (Jul 31, 2017)

Who said that was his wife he was taking photos of?


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## ronparise (Jul 31, 2017)

Those were two separate statements

Here's the view from the aft deck
And
My wife wants a bigger boat

Although she dressed like that 50 years ago, not so much now


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## paxsarah (Jul 31, 2017)

foundyoubyaccident said:


> You may want to pick up some worldmark credits since resale wyndham won't work on worldmark resorts.



I don't think OP (or anyone else) has mentioned Worldmark or Club Pass in this entire thread. I would recommend OP start with Wyndham (or any single system, but since we're talking about Wyndham...) resale, and then if he finds that there are some needs that Wyndham can't fill, he can investigate purchasing into Worldmark at that point.


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## dagger1 (Jul 31, 2017)

ronparise said:


> Until August of last year I was on line 4 hours or so every day, managing what i owned, and I kept TUG open much of that time.
> 
> Since August I have much less to do and much less to say
> 
> ...


Holy Lord!!!  Your wife better be careful what she wishes for!!!  Big boats can be kayak magnets!!!


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## ronparise (Jul 31, 2017)

I don't think she's worried, At my age the young girls think I'm pretty much harmless and my wife knows it.  And I am


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## foundyoubyaccident (Jul 31, 2017)

paxsarah said:


> I don't think OP (or anyone else) has mentioned Worldmark or Club Pass in


  The OP may not understand or even know yet that when he purchases his resale points they will not count towards Worldmark by Wyndham.  So by letting him know now to pick some up, it helps him unlock more of the West coast side of the Wyndham Life him and his wife are looking to.


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## time4share (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> I have to say I love Flagstaff.  Going on my 4th day here.  I can see why you all love the Wyndham properities.  This is only my first location but if every location is close to this I think I am going to be really happy.  When I checked in everyone was so pleasant.  No lines at all at 5 PM.  I was shocked.  Nothing like other hotels we have been to.  Got our parking pass and an offer of $100 for attending a presentation of the Wyndham Network.
> 
> We got a very nice 1 bedroom deluxe.  It has a great deck on the back of it.  Place is much better then any other place I have been.  Never seen a full kitchen available when I was on vacation.  Wife enjoy cooking so she is having fun.  Love the club house.  Pool is a little bit crowded with the kids.  Wife was able to kick my butt in mini golf.
> 
> ...



Good luck on the new website. I'm am still locked down. As for your wonderful experience and all the greatness of your first trip. I have to say you sound like a wyndham person for sure. Are you sure you don't work for them? Lol. Good luck with it. They have wonderful places


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## time4share (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Thanks for the advice going into another owner mentioned resell but when we started to talk to the sales man he showed me a memo saying resell points can not do a lot of things.  Then he explained they just launched a new website (which I am being to read about on here) and once it gets 100% they will remove even more items from resell buyers.  He informed me they are removing the right to go to different properties if you are deeded.  He also told me they are going to start charging higher monthly fees for resell then buying directly from them.  So after doing the math it was the best thing to go this way.  He even saved me about $55,000 since I bought on our first stay.



If he talks bad about resell then why would anyone buy retail. When you get tired of it or fee to death over them changing the rules as the salesman was telling you that would be all the reasons that your not going to be able to give it away. That's like buying a house you love and the salesman telling you if you sell it then the next person who owns it gets the lights ,gas and water bill at a higher price per month. Not to mention they will not let the buyer you sold it to have any REAL access. Either the sales reps are lying to you or Wyndham is committing a serious civil action that we all need to jump on. I don't know about you all but the last is what I keep hearing and wondering if the new website IS the reason for my resell points not working right. Pisses me off. 


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## VictorBoc (Aug 1, 2017)

Finally made it back home and we did buy resell.  So hopefully in 2 or 3 months we will have access to our new account.  Sounds like it maybe longer then that based on some of the recent transfers.  I see some people talking about Worldmark.  I did not see many of those on resell.  Do they also go really cheap like Wyndham does?  I see there are also some joint resorts that the two share.


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## foundyoubyaccident (Aug 1, 2017)

I don't know about you all but the last is what I keep hearing and wondering if the new website IS the reason for my resell points not working right. 


My resale points are working just fine.  My issues with the new website have been since before the launch, every time a new contract has dropped, my account has been locked.  This happend once before they launched, the 2nd, technically the day before they launched the lasted several weeks to long.  And the 3rd, when my fixed week came through.  Which has nothing ro do with points, however thr pattern still has been the same.


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## foundyoubyaccident (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Finally made it back home and we did buy resell.  So hopefully in 2 or 3 months we will have access to our new account.  Sounds like it maybe longer then that based on some of the recent transfers.  I see some people talking about Worldmark.  I did not see many of those on resell.  Do they also go really cheap like Wyndham does?  I see there are also some joint resorts that the two share.



I have seen someone quote 30-40 cents per point is good resale.  So 10k around 3000-4000.  My husband and I have been looking into purchasing some as well.  Since our inital wyndham developer purchase is to small to get us a week stay at most worldmark resorts.


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## time4share (Aug 1, 2017)

foundyoubyaccident said:


> I don't know about you all but the last is what I keep hearing and wondering if the new website IS the reason for my resell points not working right.
> 
> 
> My resale points are working just fine.  My issues with the new website have been since before the launch, every time a new contract has dropped, my account has been locked.  This happend once before they launched, the 2nd, technically the day before they launched the lasted several weeks to long.  And the 3rd, when my fixed week came through.  Which has nothing ro do with points, however thr pattern still has been the same.



Well I deal with lots of wyndham shares. I have always prefered Wyndham over other tshares. I have over 3 million points in my account. I used them for our family several times a year. I also send employees on vacations. Since the new site change my account has been locked down. My son is at Emerald Grand this week and he also has had lots of trouble with his account. So he went in on a presentation two days ago and was told the same as the owners I was committing on. Wyndham still takes their maintenance fee each month out and I have no usage. Luckily my son had his confirmation printed out and had trouble even convincing them but they gave him a three bedroom unit. The points showed being deducted but still they gave him a hard Tim. I went to see the lawyers last week. The attorney told me they would be getting a letter from us in two weeks with a lawsuit to follow. I will keep all of you updated 


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## rhonda (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Finally made it back home and we did buy resell.  So hopefully in 2 or 3 months we will have access to our new account.  Sounds like it maybe longer then that based on some of the recent transfers.  I see some people talking about Worldmark.  I did not see many of those on resell.  Do they also go really cheap like Wyndham does?  I see there are also some joint resorts that the two share.


Welcome home and congratulations on your new resale purchase!

I'm a happy Worldmark owner since 2000. There are plenty on eBay and through various resale brokers.  WM is a pure-points product w/out the myriad of choices that Wyndham has: deeded, CWP, CWA, fixed week, etc.  Resale WM has access to all the core features: booking any WM property on points (aka 'Credits'), booking on various cash programs including Bonus Time, Inventory Specials, Monday Madness, etc.  Resale prices _tend_ to run ~$0.30/credit; average account may be near 10,000 WM credits which is sufficient for a 2BR unit in high season at the original collection of WM destinations.  More recent WM locations carry higher credit values and often offer more deluxe accommodations (penthouse and presidential unit configurations, etc.).

If buying WM through the developer, the sale includes the developer benefit, TravelShare, which creates additional opportunities for using your credits: hotels, cruising, tours, etc.  TravelShare carries an additional layer of maintenance fee and cannot be transferred via resale to a subsequent owner.


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## bnoble (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc: take it slow. It's very tempting once you dip your toe into the timeshare waters to dive in headfirst. After all, these resale contracts are so cheap! Why not!

That's how mistakes are made. Instead, use this new Wyndham resale purchase for a while and see how you like it. Then, and only then, should you consider adding on in that system or another.


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## dagger1 (Aug 1, 2017)

VictorBoc:  And check out some of the other developers, Marriot, Hyatt, Vistana (Westin/Sheraton), Hilton.  We started a year ago with Wyndham and have added several deeded fixed week/fixed unit Hyatt's and have an offer in on a Marriot Ko'Olina in Oahu.  There are some really nice TS's out there.


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## breezez (Aug 1, 2017)

bnoble said:


> VictorBoc: take it slow. It's very tempting once you dip your toe into the timeshare waters to dive in headfirst. After all, these resale contracts are so cheap! Why not!
> 
> That's how mistakes are made. Instead, use this new Wyndham resale purchase for a while and see how you like it. Then, and only then, should you consider adding on in that system or another.




Listen to them....   I have 5 weeks vacation and my wife gets 4 per year.   I have around 10 weeks of timeshare....  Like to think I building up for retirement .    But really just seeing what works best for me.  

A few things positive I'll say about WM:   They are not the most posh of resorts, but there are a lot of them especially out west.  I have never stayed at one I did not like.  Unlike most TS, MF's are capped, you can trade into RCI or II and using Flex/Instant Exchange you can trade into any size unit for 4000 credits with either company.   They are a strong trader.   They have the most flexible use policies with basically 3 years to use points, as you can book expiring points into a reservation 1 year out.   If you can't use your points I have never had an issue selling to another owner for at or above my cost.   If you need more points one year you can easily rent 2 times your account size from others.  Guest passes are free for all.     

Now the bad side Wyndham runs things,  So as with any TS benefits could erode with time.  But we have some of our benefits built into our charter agreement which makes some things harder to erode than others.   Last two resorts I have visited in last 30 days they have mentioned how Wyndham has this new website and reservation system they will bring to WM.   That is the dreaded Voyager and that's scary.   Internet is not free at WM you pay a fee for it.,  But hey they give you a collection of cooking spices each stay and Wyndham doesn't


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## Lisa P (Aug 2, 2017)

VictorBoc, congratulations on your resale purchase!  You've saved a bundle and I'm sure you and your wife will really enjoy your timeshare vacations.  Welcome to TUG as well.


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## cayman01 (Aug 2, 2017)

VictorBoc said:


> Finally made it back home and we did buy resell.  So hopefully in 2 or 3 months we will have access to our new account.  Sounds like it maybe longer then that based on some of the recent transfers.  I see some people talking about Worldmark.  I did not see many of those on resell.  Do they also go really cheap like Wyndham does?  I see there are also some joint resorts that the two share.



 Couple of things. Worldmark does not go cheap like Wyndham on resale. You will pay more. Around 30 cents a point is good. 10,000 points will get you into most of WM 2 BR units for a week. Some of the newer ones are more than 10k. However, maintenance fees tend to be lower than Wyndham. 

 Worldmark has most of its resorts west of the Mississippi. I do not know where you live but consider that when you buy. It's the reason we bought WYndham instead of WM ( we are east coast). They pretty much own the Pacific Northwest where there are ZERO Wyndhams. But once you cross the Big River they are very scarce.

 They have a bunch of resorts scattered in the South Pacific. Australia, New Zealand and Fiji. A week here a week there and you are talking an epic vacation.

 Take your time. Experience Wyndham. If you got a million points you can stretch that to at least 10 weeks of vacation if you plan right. You can also blow it all with a week at Sundara in prime season. There is a LOT to learn. We have been to Edisto, Bonnet Creek (three times), Smokey Mountains, Sapphire Valley, Cypress Palms and, as I speak, Reunion. We have three more stays at Bonnet Creek scheduled along with a trip to Angel Fire, Pagosa Springs and Flagstaff coming up. And we STILL have a couple hundred thousand points to use. Plus I rented out almost 200k of points. Learn all you can about what you have first, then fill in what you feel you are missing with something else.


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## rhonda (Aug 2, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> They have a bunch of resorts scattered in the South Pacific. Australia, New Zealand and Fiji. A week here a week there and you are talking an epic vacation.


Resale WM accounts since 2006 include access to the Worldmark in Fiji but *not* the Worldmark South Pacific Club's properties in Australia, New Zealand and Thailand.


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## cayman01 (Aug 2, 2017)

rhonda said:


> Resale WM accounts since 2006 include access to the Worldmark in Fiji but *not* the Worldmark South Pacific Club's properties in Australia, New Zealand and Thailand.



Learn something new every day here. Let me ask, what about thru Wyndham Club Pass?  Although I am resale, we have access to Worldmark because we are Presidential Reserve


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## breezez (Aug 2, 2017)

I have seen a few 6K SP WM accounts go for $300 bucks or less in the last year.

So if you want one they go pretty cheap


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## rhonda (Aug 2, 2017)

breezez said:


> I have seen a few 6K SP WM accounts go for $300 bucks or less in the last year.
> 
> So if you want one they go pretty cheap


Every now and again I get a niggle for one of those ... but realistically, we've only used our WM points in WMSP properties twice: 2002 and 2016.  Not like I see a trend of enduring that long airplane ride sufficiently often to commit to a dedicated WMSP account.  

Quick roll call: Anyone here have a WMSP account?


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## foundyoubyaccident (Aug 2, 2017)

What is the sp?


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## Braindead (Aug 2, 2017)

foundyoubyaccident said:


> What is the sp?


South Pacific


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## rhonda (Aug 3, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> Learn something new every day here. Let me ask, what about thru Wyndham Club Pass?  Although I am resale, we have access to Worldmark because we are Presidential Reserve


Source: Wyndham Club Pass Resorts, https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/resorts.page
From the linked webpage, it appears that Wyndham Club Pass can access at least _some_ of the AU locations and one in NZ.  An interesting "selection" of the available properties?


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