# Which Point Systems to Compare?



## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

Okay, in another thread, I mentioned that I was interested in creating a detailed comparison of the various point systems and contributing an article for the TUG Advice section.

This thread is dedicated to listing all of the point systems we want included in the initial analysis.    

Here is a list that Bill created.  Should we include others?

Hilton -HGVC
Worldmark- WM
Disney - DVC
Starwood- SVN
Fairfield - FF
Hyatt - HVC
Sunterra - 
Bluegreen-BGVC
Shell Vacation - SVC
Monarch Grand - MGV
Club Intrawest - CI
Raintree- 
Royal Holiday - RHC
Vacation Internationael - VI


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## mshatty (May 8, 2007)

RCI Points?


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

mshatty said:


> RCI Points?



Yes, very good catch, Mike.


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

I think Gary mentioned on the other thread Orange Lake Global Access.  

What do people think?  To me Global access is RCI Points with a very small add-on.


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

Where does Equivest fit?


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## Bill4728 (May 8, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Where does Equivest fit?




Since Equivest is basically a dead program, taken over by FF, I don't think it worth adding. (Same with Peppertree and even Pahio.)


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## gjw007 (May 8, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> I think Gary mentioned on the other thread Orange Lake Global Access.
> 
> What do people think?  To me Global access is RCI Points with a very small add-on.



Boca;

Couldn't the same be said of Fairfield Points?  Or Hilton's?  Or Bluegreen?  Both example offer points-based internal exchange programs with what I call a corporate master RCI Points (sometime RCI Weeks for FF I believe) external exchange ability.  Can FF and Hilton take advantage of RCI Points 9000 point Weeks exchange within 45 days (I don't know if Global can or cannot)?  A true RCI Points resort certainly would (using Vacation Village at Parkway as an example) without the need to even ask the question as you would control your RCI Points account directly and not through the internal exchange program's external linkage.  

It probably would be better to stick initially with the more established points-based systems.  If OLCC Global is not in your initial comparison, it should be mostly because it is new and has limited numbers, not because it or other points-based system share similarities.  I suspect most points-based systems are similar with small differences (quirks). If you eliminate points-based programs because of the similarities, what is the guideline given that most, I believe, points-based systems are very similar, at least in concept.  From my perspective, I would be interested in seeing how it compared to FF, Hilton, etc. as they appear to be the model OLCC used.


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

gjw007 said:


> Boca;
> 
> Couldn't the same be said of Fairfield Points?  Or Hilton's?  Or Bluegreen?  Both example offer points-based internal exchange programs with what I call a corporate master RCI Points (sometime RCI Weeks for FF I believe) external exchange ability.  Can FF and Hilton take advantage of RCI Points 9000 point Weeks exchange within 45 days (I don't know if Global can or cannot)?  A true RCI Points resort certainly would (using Vacation Village at Parkway as an example) without the need to even ask the question as you would control your RCI Points account directly and not through the internal exchange program's external linkage.
> 
> It probably would be better to stick initially with the more established points-based systems.  If OLCC Global is not in your initial comparison, it should be mostly because it is new and has limited numbers, not because it or other points-based system share similarities.  I suspect most points-based systems are similar with small differences (quirks). If you eliminate points-based programs because of the similarities, what is the guideline given that most, I believe, points-based systems are very similar, at least in concept.  From my perspective, I would be interested in seeing how it compared to FF, Hilton, etc. as they appear to be the model OLCC used.




I don't mind including it as long as there is something interesting to report.  Is there more than than just doubling the value of RCI Points?   None of the other programs have that property.


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## UWSurfer (May 8, 2007)

"Can FF and Hilton take advantage of RCI Points 9000 point Weeks exchange within 45 days (I don't know if Global can or cannot)?"

HGVC can.  This was discussed recently on the Hotel & Others systems board, a link to the thread below:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45589


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## Bill4728 (May 8, 2007)

How about we put them in order:

Bluegreen-BGVC
Club Intrawest - CI
Disney - DVC
Fairfield - FF
Hilton -HGVC
Hyatt - HVC
Monarch Grand - MGV
Raintree-
RCI Points
Royal Holiday - RHC
Shell Vacation - SVC
Starwood- SVN
Sunterra -
Vacation Internationael - VI
Worldmark- WM


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## BocaBum99 (May 8, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> How about we put them in order:
> 
> Bluegreen-BGVC
> Club Intrawest - CI
> ...



Okay, I think this is a great list.  We can always add others later.  If there is a Global Access owner that can describe benefits above and beyond RCI Points, I'll consider including it.  I'll start structuring an assessment sometime this week.  This is the list I would have created except for Raintree.  I haven't read anything about that one.  I have a rudimentary understanding of all the rest.


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## somerville (May 8, 2007)

Since you don't want Equivest, you saved me a lot of writing.


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## JudyS (May 15, 2007)

I think it's interesting having RCI Points as a comparison, but it's really "a different animal" entirely from the other systems.  Since RCI is just an exchange system, members of it have no ownership rights whatsoever, no input into what RCI does, and no real right to keep using the system.  Furthermore, there is no guarantee that RCI will get any particular trading inventory in the future, whereas the other systems all offer a guarantee of _some_ trading inventory.  

This isn't intended as RCI Points bashing; I own two RCI Points contracts, and am converting a third week to RCI Points.  But, RCI Points doesn't provide the same rights that the other systems provide, and this should be kept in mind. 

By the way, Amber Vacation Club was mentioned on the other thread about comparing points systems.  I suspect it's most a dead system, although I don't know for sure.  I've seen a few eBay auction for Amber Vacation Club.  They seem to have just a few, lower quality resorts, and the annual fees seem to be around $400 a year for _every other year _usage, making it $800 per week of usage (assuming the ads I've seen have described it correctly.).


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## na2006 (May 15, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> How about we put them in order:
> 
> Bluegreen-BGVC
> Club Intrawest - CI
> ...



How about HHonors?


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## Bill4728 (May 16, 2007)

na2006 said:


> How about HHonors?


This isn't a TS point  system.


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## Bill4728 (May 16, 2007)

Maybe we should also have something about those systems which have an international componant. Like:
worldmark -southpacific
Hilton international 
Sunterra europe


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## sage (May 17, 2007)

What about APVC (Accor Premiere Vacation Club)?
It's Australia & New Zealand based but has just opened APVC Asia this week. Plans for India & Singapore as well.
It is almost as big as Worldmark over here.
Can it be included too?


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## gjw007 (May 17, 2007)

JudyS said:


> By the way, Amber Vacation Club was mentioned on the other thread about comparing points systems.  I suspect it's most a dead system, although I don't know for sure.  I've seen a few eBay auction for Amber Vacation Club.  They seem to have just a few, lower quality resorts, and the annual fees seem to be around $400 a year for _every other year _usage, making it $800 per week of usage (assuming the ads I've seen have described it correctly.).



Judy

I don't that it is a dead horse, per se, but it isn't growing.  It does show the problems of a small points system.  I own an even year unit, week 51, at Alhambra Villas.  When I bought it a few years ago, it had worked hard and achieved RCI's Gold Crown.  The hurricanes in Florida had caused damaged and forced the resort to do major maintenance as it was shut down for several months (no special assessments).  It is currently a Silver Crown.  Some of the other resorts in the Amber Vacation Club (AVC) are Tree Tops and Sunrise which are also RCI Gold Crown resorts, and Oakmont which is a RCI Silver Crown.  The only resort that is not a Gold Crown or Silver Crown is Casa del Mar Beach which is a standard RCI rating.  You may disagree with RCI's ratings, but according to the RCI ratings, it would be unfair to say that they are of lower quality.  The maintenance fees is about $400 a year as you describe and to use the unit as a 2-bedroom unit or as a trade for a 2-bedroom unit would cost around $800.  One of the advantages of a small resort is that a guest or owner gets to know all the staff, some say more friendly than at the bigger timeshare locations, but the cost is a price of having a small timeshare where the costs are divided among a small number of owners.  The AVC program adds roughly $85 per year to the ownership cost.  The owners could drop the program but lose the advantage of having the points system and the ability to select the resorts within the system.

The Amber Vacation Club (AVC) is between 5 or 6 resorts and allows the units to be converted into AVC points where the points can be used up to 1 year before your ownership week and up to 1 years past your ownership week.  The owner has the choice to use their unit, space bank the unit with RCI, or convert the units into AVC points.  The units at Alhambra are all lockouts so an owner always has the ability to have one week a year; one in a 1-bedroom unit and the other in a hotel-style units.  The AVC provides the owner with the advantage of the points-based system where they can stay for less than a week and in the size unit that they desire.  Since the various times of the year have different point requirements, it is possible to have a 1-bedroom unit in both years but they won't be in prime time.  

$800 for a 2-bedroom unit may be high but $400 - $420 for a 1-bedroom for 7 nights is roughly $60 per night and when compared to hotel rooms that may run more than that, it is a fair deal.  True, you can get a RCI extra vacation (or whatever the flavor of the month for the name) for a lower cost but you must already be in the RCI system to do so.  I stayed in Orlando at a Knights hotel that cost roughly $50 with taxes and I would much prefer to have stayed at a timeshare's 1-bedroom unit than the hotel room.  Given the condition of the Kight's Inn that I stayed at, I slept very light at night.

A comparison of the points-based systems probably should focus on the major systems (however defined such as size, geography, etc.) with a side note to note that there are smaller points-based systems out there.  AVC is clearly not a major points-based system.


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## CharlesS (May 17, 2007)

*RCI Points*



JudyS said:


> I think it's interesting having RCI Points as a comparison, but it's really "a different animal" entirely from the other systems.  Since RCI is just an exchange system



I think it's more than interesting or academic.  The real value of Jim's proposal is for people considering purchasing.  Do I want to purchase Raintree or Fairfield, etc., or perhaps a resort that is in RCI points.   I am guessing that RCI points resorts will be one of the major interests that people might have.  It might be impossible to do a one to one comparison but whatever is done will be useful to many.  Keep RCI Points in.

Charles


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## mengberg (May 22, 2007)

At the risk of getting flamed I'm going to mention Global Discovery Vacations again.  I'm not sure if it fits because it's a point system but pretty different, (I think), from those mentioned above.  You don't buy big numbers of points, just a few stars.  I think the stars convert similarly although easier to understand I think.  I'd love a more detailed analysis of how it differs though.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 22, 2007)

Global Discovery whatever it is cannot be included in this list because there is no product attached.  No product, no points, just a log-on page.:rofl:


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## mengberg (May 22, 2007)

Maybe I misunderstand how the point system properties work then.  If so, I apologize.  I thought that with some of the point system properties, you buy a bunch of points that you can then trade for time share weeks at different locations but that you don't actually own title to anything.  Do you actually get a deed to a property with all of the point system properties?


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## bnoble (May 22, 2007)

At wynfield, you get a deed.  At DVC, you have a lease with a specified time horizon on a specific piece of property.  Most of the others are similar to one of these two models.  It sounds like GDV is neither of these---just access to surplus inventory that the "regular" outlets don't dispose of.

That doesn't make it necessarily bad, just different.  Some of us do pretty well by skimming off that excess inventory by other means---in my case, by exchanging FF generic blue studios.


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## BocaBum99 (May 22, 2007)

I'm still working on the framework.  This is very difficult to make non-trivial or meaningfully simple.  Making slow progress.

I don't think Global Discovery Vacation will make the cut line.   But, I'll keep an open mind.

There are literally dozens of vacation clubs out there that are based on nothing.  Not sure if GDV is one of those, but it certainly looks like it on the surface.


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## mengberg (May 22, 2007)

I appreciate the civil responses.

GDV actually does own property.  I'm not sure if they actually own any entire resorts but they do own property from other resorts.  Not a lot on the west coast I'm told because they started out more on the East coast.  I think they own a bunch of units at the Mayan Palace which is probably why I was able to get a unit there on relatively short notice.

I don't really mind if it doesn't make the cut especially as not a lot about it seems to be known.  (I'm hoping to find out more.) It's hard to get real information because the sales people will tell you one thing but you don't know how much to believe.

I guess I had an incorrect view of 'point systems.'  From reading the posts on the Shell Vacation Club which I found interesting, I was under the impression that you didn't actually own a deed but just a bunch of points that you could trade for different units in the group.  My mistake.


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## BocaBum99 (May 22, 2007)

mengberg said:


> I appreciate the civil responses.
> 
> GDV actually does own property.  I'm not sure if they actually own any entire resorts but they do own property from other resorts.  Not a lot on the west coast I'm told because they started out more on the East coast.  I think they own a bunch of units at the Mayan Palace which is probably why I was able to get a unit there on relatively short notice.
> 
> ...



I am willing to read the recorded sales prospectus for Global Discovery Vacations.  If it is a real estate offering, I'll get to the bottom of it by reading the prospectus.  If it doesn't have one, it's more like a reseller of vacation time like AAA than a vacation club like the point systems we are discussing in this exercise.


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## In The Pink (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi Jim

Just came across this thread and wondered if you ever got the comparison done?  I realize that must have been a HUMONGOUS undertaking, but if you have it posted somewhere, I'd love to see it.

If not, I certainly can understand.

Thanks.


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## TUGBrian (Feb 5, 2008)

always good to revisit...Let me know if you need some help formatting or coming up with a web layout for the comparison chart etc.


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