# Kids on vacation during school year?



## michelle (Jun 25, 2009)

My oldest son is starting Kindergarten in September and even though I am very exited for him, it would seem our days of vacationing in the low season are sadly over. 

But I have heard of people taking their kids out of school during the school year, and certainly, when we were in Orlando in May, the place was packed with school age kids. I did not grow up here, so do not have any experience with the concept of taking kids out of school. (Is it new?)

Do you do it? How and when? How long? How do the kids do? And also important: how do the teachers do?
If not, why not?

My son's education is very important to us. But I would also like to know what our options are.

Lastly, not sure if this has the potential to turn into the category of a 'controversial subject' - if so, moderators, please remove. My apologies.


----------



## Luanne (Jun 25, 2009)

We didn't.  But that was us.  You might want to check the policies in your school district as to what is required if you're going to take your child out for a week.  In the younger grades there may not be as much concern as when the kids get older.  Any many times older kids do not want to miss school due to the make up work required.  I know that in the state of California, and probably other states as well, the schools get money based on how many kids are in school, so if you pull your child out for vacation they lose that funding unless the child has some kind of contract.  Anyway, just things to think about.  But, again I'd suggest checking with your child's school.


----------



## janej (Jun 25, 2009)

Michelle,

Are you in Fairfax county?  We are.  Our school holidays are the week before Easter, Xmas break and summer break, all high season.  We went to Orlando during spring break one year.  It was just too crowded for me.  So we started taking vacation on the two teacher working days (two days) in Nov and January.  We might take the kids out for one or two extra days and use only partial week of our timeshare reservation.  But it worked out ok.

How much damage to your kids' education depends on the kids, I guess.  I don't see my kids falling behind because of missing a few days of school.  But when they get older (after 5th grade), homework and projects make up a big portion of their grade book.  I have one child who usually miss some homework no matter how many times I asked him to do it ahead of time.  (he misses homework sometimes when we don't go on vacation any way) His grades would suffer for a few weeks.  So we now only take one extra day in January to ski in Colorado.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jun 25, 2009)

michelle said:


> My oldest son is starting Kindergarten in September and even though I am very exited for him, it would seem our days of vacationing in the low season are sadly over.
> 
> But I have heard of people taking their kids out of school during the school year, and certainly, when we were in Orlando in May, the place was packed with school age kids. I did not grow up here, so do not have any experience with the concept of taking kids out of school. (Is it new?)
> 
> ...



With no intention to be controversial ...

We did it twice for a week each time with our now-twenty-something kids - the first time when they were in 2nd/3rd grades and the second when they were in 10th/11th grades.  Both trips were taken with other family members and we thought it was important enough to be included with the groups.

We sent in a letter to the principal and their teachers long before the trips and discussed it with each teacher again at parent/teacher conferences.  The elementary school teachers made up packages of worksheets and asked for journals to be kept; the high school teachers varied between letting the kids know ahead time what would be covered so they could take books with them, and allowing for time slots after school during the week following the trip so that the kids could make up tests, etc and/or have review sessions.

The trips were planned so that none of the kids, mine or my nieces and nephews, missed any state-wide testing or mid-year and final exams.  I was okay with it because my kids didn't have difficulties with school; if they had, I wouldn't have considered the trips.

These days it seems the schools are much stricter about non-illness absences and the administrators are much more locked in to the stated rules and procedures.  If I had school-age children now, that would cause me to speak directly to the administrators before I made any plans.

Good luck with your children's school years - it seems those days went by in the blink of any eye.  And congratulations to your son - what a milestone he's crossing!


----------



## Luanne (Jun 25, 2009)

Another thing to consider.  If you child is given a packet of work to complete during the vacation, will the work be completed? And how much of a vacation will it feel like to your child?


----------



## ricoba (Jun 25, 2009)

michelle said:


> Lastly, not sure if this has the potential to turn into the category of a 'controversial subject' - if so, moderators, please remove. My apologies.



This is not a controversial subject, but you will get some strong opinions on both sides of this issue from our fellow TUGGERS! 

We took our children out of school from time-to-time when they were in elementary grades, and we always made sure they had homework and makeup work to do.

But as they grew older (1 just graduated HS & 1 will be a HS Senior this year), we rarely have taken them out and if we have, it's only been for a day or two and not a week.

Part of the joy of responsible parenting is giving up some things we have previously done, like travel during low season.


----------



## IreneLF (Jun 25, 2009)

Briefly - I was always against it but everyone (and I mean everyone) else did.

I finally caved and did it twice. Best thing we ever did , as far as being able to be in WDW. 
We'd gone once during the last 2 weeks of August and while it was empty, I nearly  died from heat, and no way I wanted to go in high break times.


We went during the first week of November when NJ schools are closed for 2 of the 5 days. 
Mine were in 4th and 6th when pulled out, we missed three days of school.
I told my son's teachers in advance  and they all said to do it. My daughter's gave her the work for the week which she finished in the car on the way down to WDW.  My kids always had perfect attendance except for these years when we pulled them out.

In fact, when I came back I had a meeting to go to with some support staff, and it turned out that  the teacher I met with  had also taken her kids out for the same 3 days that week.  (and all too funny but true, we both stayed at Vistana, different sections. We did establish that both she and my DH were in the pro shop looking for sales at the same time, only they didn't know one another)

It's a personal decision but I'd say go for it, especially since he is in kindergarden.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jun 25, 2009)

*Hi, Neighbor.*




janej said:


> Are you in Fairfax county?  We are.


Hey, us too. 

But it has been a _l-o-n-g_ time since we had kids in Fairfax County schools -- in fact we have a grandson who will be enrolling in 1st grade in a Fairfax County school in the fall.  Who'd a-thunk ? 

Meanwhile, when our friend's daughter in another state was enrolled in modified year-round schools, we took advantage of the break between summer quarter & fall quarter to take both of them -- daughter & mom -- to HGVC Sea World for a nice timeshare vacation during (relatively) slow season in & around Orlando FL.  Everybody had a nice time. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## michelle (Jun 25, 2009)

*Thanks for your replies!*

Yes, we are in Fairfax County. Teacher work days and half days on Monday, right?!

Luanne, good question re how much time the kid will have to spend on homework.... At this stage I am also concerned about how much precious vacation time the adult will have to spend to assist (not sure how much effort being a Kindergarten parent is going to take yet   ) 

Am a little worried about teachers having to go out of their way to accommodate kids on vacation: staying after school to help kids does not seem right. Unless the teachers are staying for other kids anyway?

Yes, long weekends, instead of full weeks definately sounds like a lot less strain all around.


----------



## DeniseM (Jun 25, 2009)

I think the most important thing is finding out what the school policies are.  In many states, when the child is absent for any reason, the school loses funding for those days, so there is a lot more to it than just missing school.

I'd ask these questions - Some of these questions apply more to Jr. High and High School, where missing a week of school can seriously impact your grade.

What's the school policy about missing school for vacations?

Can the student go on short-term independent study, which is treated as if the student is in school those days?

Will the days the student is absent count as unexcused absences or truancies?

Is the student entitled to make up work for those days?

What happens if the make up work is not done or is only partially done?

Is/are the teacher(s) required to give them make up work?

Will the make up work be valued as if it is the equivalent of the work they would have done in class, or will they be penalized?

Will being absent affect their grade or citizenship or put them in an excessive absence category?​
Let me give you an example:  In my district you can go on Short Term Ind. Study for a maximum of 20 days per school year.  To receive credit, the student must complete and turn in all homework when they return on the 21st day.  If the student does not, then they will be marked absent for 20 days, instead of 20 days of Ind. Study.  

We also have a 20 day drop policy - meaning a student who is absent, unexcused for 20 consecutive days can be dropped from enrollment.  So, if a student goes on Ind. Study, and comes back with no work done, they can be dropped for 20 days of consecutive absences.  

You want to know things like that before you make a decision about taking your child out of school.


----------



## geekette (Jun 25, 2009)

Luanne said:


> Another thing to consider.  If you child is given a packet of work to complete during the vacation, will the work be completed? And how much of a vacation will it feel like to your child?



I'd make it a condition of being able to go on vacation vs doing their job (school).  How much of a vacation will it feel like?  I'm sure not having to get up early and catch a bus feels a lot like vacation.  

I'm not much of a coddler.  Kiddo would have to complete a portion each day before earning the right to free time.   If they balk, remind them who is buying the food and cooking it, who is paying for the trip, and how easy it would be to get them back in school very quickly.

Getting to take a trip vs going to school is a special privilege.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Jun 25, 2009)

michelle said:


> Yes, we are in Fairfax County. Teacher work days and half days on Monday, right?!
> 
> Luanne, good question re how much time the kid will have to spend on homework.... At this stage I am also concerned about how much precious vacation time the adult will have to spend to assist (not sure how much effort being a Kindergarten parent is going to take yet   )
> 
> ...




We take our kids out for 2 days of Thanksgiving week, a full week is just way too much IMHO. 

This will be the 4th yr we've done this(I have an incoming 2nd and 7th grader) and the reaction is, "Oh a lot of people do this, here's the paperwork."  The eldest had to take it around to all his teachers in 6th grade up at the Jr High. Of course they all asked where he was going, told him to have fun and remind them on Friday to give him the work. 

He probably had an hour of work to do, easily done on the airplane. He actually had more work that was due the Monday after they returned from a week at environmental camp this spring, which was preceded by Spring Break.  

My youngest was in 1st grade and I think he had 2 worksheets to do. It was very minimal  when my eldest was in 4th and 5th grade.

Our district seems to be not be that tough on time off during the school year. They do give you all the important test dates, I got the list for next year already and would like if you could schedule things around them.


----------



## Luanne (Jun 25, 2009)

geekette said:


> I'd make it a condition of being able to go on vacation vs doing their job (school).  How much of a vacation will it feel like?  I'm sure not having to get up early and catch a bus feels a lot like vacation.



Maybe I've been lucky, but when I take a vacation from my job I'm not bringing work with me to do.


----------



## geekette (Jun 25, 2009)

Luanne said:


> Maybe I've been lucky, but when I take a vacation from my job I'm not bringing work with me to do.



Me either!  I do have to let them know where to find me but they haven't looked me up yet.  I don't take a laptop.  I don't care who has wifi.  

But, this is about a kid taking a trip while school is in session - it is not vacation time for any of the other students, and it isn't for the lucky kid that gets to skip school.  There are still assignments that have to be done.


----------



## Luanne (Jun 25, 2009)

geekette said:


> Me either!  I do have to let them know where to find me but they haven't looked me up yet.  I don't take a laptop.  I don't care who has wifi.
> 
> But, this is about a kid taking a trip while school is in session - it is not vacation time for any of the other students, and it isn't for the lucky kid that gets to skip school.  There are still assignments that have to be done.



As I've said, we never did take our kids out of school, in fact never even considered it.  That may be because my parents never took us out of school during the school year.  So, I've never sat down and discussed with them how they'd feel about having to take school work along on a so-called vacation and actually have to *do* it! :hysterical:


----------



## geekette (Jun 25, 2009)

Luanne said:


> As I've said, we never did take our kids out of school, in fact never even considered it.  That may be because my parents never took us out of school during the school year.  So, I've never sat down and discussed with them how they'd feel about having to take school work along on a so-called vacation and actually have to *do* it! :hysterical:



My parents did it the right way - we always missed the first day of school.  Day after Labor Day, always a half day.

Because of our sports schedule, it wasn't until some time in August that State was over and we were free, so we'd take our trips then and typically arrive home some time on that first day of school.  No homework!


----------



## lprstn (Jun 25, 2009)

I've done it often.  Only problem I had was with the High Schooler.  I will not ever do that to him again (with the exception of the 3 half days before Thanksgiving in which the teachers don't start new lessons.)

As far as elementary school, it's great.  No problems.


----------



## Rose Pink (Jun 25, 2009)

We did it once in awhile.  We tried to plan things so they wouldn't miss many days (such as when there was only a partial week of school) and we planned ahead--told the teachers, had the kids hand in their schoolwork early, etc.

Each child was taken to Washington, DC when he turned 9--a private vacation without the siblings.  This was planned for the last week of school when not much was going on anyway.  I think they probably learned more from the Smithsonian, etc then they would have those last days of school when the textbooks had already been turned in.  (Some of them may have gone during the short week around Easter break--long ago and I don't remember anymore.)


----------



## Patri (Jun 25, 2009)

Done it many times with our kids in all grades. Occasionally it was a family trip. Most times one child with me to visit out of state grandparents. Our school system has no problem with it. We fill out an educational release form ahead of time and state educational value of the trip. There is always something (geography, history, art etc). But our school also respects that not everyone was born in this town and summers or holidays aren't necessarily the prime times to travel to see family.
Homework was not a big issue. Most times kids didn't bring anything along. Caught up when they got back. In middle school and high school it was harder because of sports schedules, and yes, being present for achievement tests, concerts, etc.
But what the kids remember of their trips outweighs what they would have remembered from sitting in the classroom.


----------



## Luanne (Jun 25, 2009)

What it's going to boil down to is what is going to be best for your family.  And as several of us have suggested, check with your school to find out their policy.

I was going to say a whole lot more but thought better of it. :ignore:


----------



## blr666 (Jun 25, 2009)

I've taken out my son every year, he is going into 4th grade this year.  Our school district is very strict.  Each year we had to sign a contract and he gets about 35 pages of work to do plus 3 books to read (all for one missed week).  I think this is much more that what he would've done in class so I have no problem with him missing anything.  Also, I tell the teacher a few weeks in advance and try to get the package early so we can get started before the vacation.  So during vacation, he will have minimal stuff to do.  We usually go to museums, and do tours of historical places while on vacation so I think he is getting something educational out of the vacation too.  In the end, you have to do what you think will work for your child.


----------



## pjrose (Jun 25, 2009)

Our district requires an "Educational Trip" request to be filled out several weeks in advance, limits the number of days (two trips, no more than x days total?), and does not allow educational trips during the last two weeks of the school year (and possibly just before the Winter break).  

We never took our kids out for a vacation, though many people did.  In Kindergarten or early elementary school I would probably do it, though at the time we didn't.  When I commented to the elementary school principal about the idea of Orlando or someone's wedding to be "educational", he said education is everywhere.  Good point.

Once when we were going to Colonial Williamsburg NOT during a school week I emailed the teachers and offered to have my kids do a project or presentation - none of them took us up on it.  

The only time I ever took one of my kids out of school unexcused was for their Grandfather's 90th birthday celebration in another state - It was in the last two weeks of school so I knew the form wouldn't be approved, I told the principal and teachers about it a week and a half in advance saying I hoped they could make an exception - I guess they didn't, as that final report card says there was 1.5 days truancy.  Doesn't matter, we were going regardless!


----------



## mepiccolo (Jun 25, 2009)

Maybe I'm more lenient on this subject because every single year until I was 15 my parents took my siblings and I out of school for 2 weeks to go out to visit family (2 day car trip away) and we all did fine in school.  We would actually go Christmas week and then extend 2 more weeks beyond usually.  As we got older we resented missing some things (like boyfriends  but honestly, I remember those trips much more than I remember a random couple of weeks in school.

We took our kindergartner out of school for two weeks and he went on independent study, which makes it not an unexcused absence.  He had to write in a journal every day and he had about 2 pages of homework to do each day.  We would do 4 one day and none the next, depending on what we were doing in Hawaii that day.  We will continue to do this as long as we can, certainly throughout elementary school.  Once they reach junior high and high school they will probably be involved in sports which would make it more difficult to do, so as long as we can get away with it we will.  

It's truly a blessing to be able to take a family vacation somewhere exotic in this economy and I'm going to be the one who say what hasn't been said very often here on TUG....vacationing on weeks that aren't crowded makes a HUGE difference.  I live in crowded California, when I vacation I don't want to go somewhere even more crowded.  I don't even think this is selfish reasoning because my kids are immensely enjoying the vacations themselves and we do stress the importance of education on them and take their school work seriously all other weeks of the school year.  But those 2 weeks when we leave the job and leave the school, that belongs to our family and we are a happier bunch for it.  And here's how I feel about the school district, if they're not happy with it I can put my kids in private school to continue taking our family vacations when we want and then they'd lose all the rest of the money for losing out on my kids.  Enrollment is down in my area...they don't want that to happen.  It's a good school district, so I don't really want to do that either but, as I said, I did this with my family every year I grew up and I hold my childhood family reunions very close to my heart as my children will remember their yearly trip to Hawaii...without mommy and daddy stressing out about high holiday prices and not being able to book on holiday weeks and finding consecutive lounge chairs by the pool, etc. etc.


----------



## suesam (Jun 25, 2009)

We took our oldest son out of school for  week  almost every year, including his senior year. He ended up being a valedictorian. We usually tried to do it, if possible, during a week in which there was a day off of school or something. He was perfectly fine. He was so happy to be out and knew that he would have to do homework on the vacation and just did not care. It was often to Colorado and snow boarding is a very valued activity in his life to this day. 

My younger son will be a junior and we have taken him out almost every year as well. I am not sure if he will be as comfortable with it as his brother was during his junior and senior year. He too did his homework before or during our vacation and had no problem with that. 

I certainly had no qualms about it as I feel bonding with one's family, especially when you are a teenager is so important.


----------



## Janette (Jun 25, 2009)

Our school required prior notification and the students were counted absent but allowed to make up their work. As a high school math teacher, I gave the assignments and asked that students be in my room at 7am to take any tests they missed. I was always fair and tried to understand, but I asked that they find a smart buddy in the class to help them if they needed extra help. I didn't think it fair to take my time away from students who needed extra help to help those who just missed class because of vacations. After school is not really a good time to take make-up tests. The students are brain exhausted by then. I had students in my room daily before and after school for help and I even had good students helping me with tutoring. It really isn't fair to expect teachers to go beyond their normal day to help vacationing students make up work.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jun 25, 2009)

In my case, when it was "back in the old days" and my high-schoolers' teachers allowed them time after school following the trip, that time wasn't scheduled for only my kids.  It seems hard to imagine now, but back then all of the high school teachers were available one afternoon a week to any of their students who wanted extra help.

And believe me, I'm not saying that teachers should be required to set aside time outside of the school day for any students.  When they were kind enough to me and my kids that our trip didn't make us feel that we were imposing, we were sincerely appreciative.  We would have been equally understanding if they hadn't been able to accommodate us.  Ultimately, the schools set the policy and the individual families have to make the decisions whether or not to abide by it.


----------



## Holly in South Jersey (Jun 25, 2009)

In NJ, schools get their funding based on enrollment on Oct 15- doesn't matter what it is the rest of the year. So check your state.

The year we planned to go to Fla in May, I wrote to the Bd of Ed in Oct and got permission for my then jr. high student to be out for 2 weeks. Teachers were less than thrilled, but gave her work to do. 

I work in a middle school, and many, many families do it.

Holly


----------



## pittle (Jun 25, 2009)

Our grandson goes with us on a family vacation every year at Thanksgiving.  He will be in the 5th grade this upcoming year.  He misses 2-1/2 to 3 days of school on this trip.  Because we go to places that the other children in his school have not been to and most likely will not get the chance to, his teachers have been very accommodating.  He (and his Dad) always puts together a Power Point presentation of photos we take.  He has done presentations on Hawaii (Ohau & Kauai), Acapulco, Mayan Riviera (Tulum), Puerto Vallarta, and Hoover Dam & the Grand Canyon.   We always take him on a tour of the area and collect various brochures for him to show the kids. 

I would not be surprised if this has to change once he is in Jr High and High School.


----------



## pammex (Jun 25, 2009)

I took both my kids out of school for two weeks before we moved to Mexico to see their grandparetns in Mexico and to see some of the wonders of the world in Mexico.  They were given projects to do while in Mexico.  We went to the Monarch Butterfly Sanctuary in Michoacan Mexico ( a seventh wonder of the world at the time), and we also took them to many other parts of Mexico.  They learned the currency of the country and even some spanish ( this was all before we even knew we would move to Mexico).  

My boys learned more in those two weeks than they ever could have learned in a classroom.  Sometimes knowledge is not traditional but non-traditional and invaluable.  It hurt them none and they had experiences to share with their class that none would have even begun to get in a book.  

Lo and behold, later we moved to Mexico, now my boys are bilingual, bi-cultural, have experienced more than most kids, have been on the opposite side of prejudice, making them more tolerant people, and they have two countries where they are loved and cared for.  You can't learn that in a classroom.  My youngest son by the way just graduated from high school #14 out of 514...guess it hurt him none.


----------



## janna1 (Jun 25, 2009)

I took my kids (K and 2nd) on trips up to 2 weeks each year for the pass two years. That's the limit for the school to allows students to take off for vacation I think. For our school district, students are not allowed to make up or get homework if they were on vacation. And of course, teachers won't be very happy if you do that often. It hasn't affect my kids grading yet. But I heard that it is difficult for the higher grade.

I truely believe that school is not the only place for learning. I never call it vacation. It is a trip, my kids are learning other than just "playing". They wrote journal every day about what they saw and what they learned. It was hard at the beginning, but now it is a habit. They did mental calculation while we were hiking. They also learned other times. They enjoy the trips very much and they also understand that if they want to have another trip, they need to put extra effort in school so that they won't get behind. 

So far it worked fine for us.


----------



## applegirl (Jun 26, 2009)

Our son just finished his kindergarten year and we took him out of school twice for week long family vacations.  Once in the fall and once in the spring. Both times we put him on Independent Study which you can't do unless the absence is at least 5 days.  Since the two weeks he missed school were actually only 4 day weeks, he had to miss an additional day the following week when we were actually home.  I know putting him on independent study meant it was an excused absence but I think the school also got reimbursed for the money they otherwise would have lost.

While the kids are in elemeantary school we won't have a problem taking them out for maybe one week of vacation during the school year, but once they get into Jr. High and High School we won't do that anymore.  It just gets too difficult and we don't want it to affect their grades.

My husband and I were both once teachers (I may go back to work full-time soon) and both my parents are retired teachers so our poor kids have no chance of failing!   My son was always ahead of where he needed to be during kindergarten and we always faithfully completed the work packet that his teacher sent with us.  He kept a daily journal about our trip and got to share a little with the class when he returned.

One of the above posters said that you can't underestimate how different it is to travel outside of peak vacation times and it's true.  So as long as we can get away with it we will do it (while in the elementary years)! And as long as our kids aren't having trouble with grades to begin with, but like I said, that's likely not to happen.

I say go for it!

Janna


----------



## summervaca (Jun 26, 2009)

I also say "Go for It!"

I am a special ed teacher and I really notice how the kids who've had a wide variety of experiences are able to connect to their reading so much more than kids who've had limited opportunities.  I believe that would be the case across the board.  They really do learn valuable things while traveling 

I do think it is much easier to take younger children out of school though, than kids who are 8th grade or higher.  Lots of work to make up.


----------



## geekette (Jun 26, 2009)

janna1 said:


> For our school district, students are not allowed to make up or get homework if they were on vacation.



I'm confused.  So they just automatically fail anything that happened while they were gone?


----------



## Zac495 (Jun 27, 2009)

I'm a second grade teacher - I say - Do it - especially when they're young! There is so much more to life than worksheets and tests. Special time with family is precious - something that can be gone in a blink of an eye. I always assign my students journaling while gone (perhaps math sheets if I feel the child needs them). The child must write in a journal at least every other day. Upon return, the child shares with the class. I don't do any type of grading of this assignment. 

There are certain considerations as your child gets older (no problem in Kindergarten) - is your child a strong student? If not, you will have to be prepared to help her upon return (do worksheets on the airplane - then have fun while you're on vacation). As your child enters middle and high school, it is much more difficult to miss school. Again, how strong of a student do you have? Will he be able to go to the teachers and request make ups of tests (HS teachers aren't going to assign a journal and let it go at that). 

Talk to your older students and ask her if she can do these things. She may say no - it's too hard to go. Listen to her. Of course you may have more than one child - one strong student, the other not so strong. Weight everything - will the missed days really affect your weaker child? If so, don't do it - it won't be fun. Or just miss a day or two - a week will be hard on most older students. Imagine your job. When you go on vacation, does everything you miss land on your desk, or do you just move on when you get back? That's what it can be like for an older student. 

Our district allows 10 "unexcused" absences and 10 trips days. I think that's a lot! Kids who miss that much school often have difficulty. 

So think about it and make a wise decision based on your family's needs and your individual kids. It's not what everyone does - or what some think is right or wrong. Ultimately, you're your child's #1 advocate - you decide.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Jun 27, 2009)

I have a daugther who will be a HS sophmore and a son going into 4th next year. Our school district frowns on it as well and some teachers won't give work or allow makeup tests. My daughter gets stressed out about missing too much, but so far she's OK if we kep it to 4 days out or less. Its worked fine over the years. 

That is why we've been to Maui for President's week 3 times,  again next Feb as well. We take the week before also, which also includes a day off for teacher conferences, so they only miss 4 days in a 2 week vacation. Its also why we were inticed to buy GO gold weeks because 5 out of 10 years the first week in the gold fall season acts as a summer plat week when labor day is later than normal. This allows for a great summer vacation at gold prices without the kids missing any school.

This year and next we'll be traveling that last week in August before School starts. This year I actually did my first direct exchange for Mrytle Beach and next year going to GO. Its my birthday week so it will be a great week.

So 3 weeks of vacation with the kids and only 4 days missed school.


I'm sorry these family vacations are priceless!! Much more valuable than a few days of school. I seriously believe these vacations are how you keep your kids off drugs, keep them from doing things you don't know about and keep them destressed from the pressures of growing up. 

I know for us, we connect so much as a family that I know its tremendously beneficial to my family unit in so many ways.


----------



## Twinkstarr (Jun 27, 2009)

Holly in South Jersey said:


> In NJ, schools get their funding based on enrollment on Oct 15- doesn't matter what it is the rest of the year. So check your state.
> 
> The year we planned to go to Fla in May, I wrote to the Bd of Ed in Oct and got permission for my then jr. high student to be out for 2 weeks. Teachers were less than thrilled, but gave her work to do.
> 
> ...



Here in Ohio, they take the funding enrollment at least twice that I know of, once in Oct and Feb. Now we use the average of attendance taken over a weeks period. Now I'm sure you would get brownie points if you asked which week and planned your trip accordingly.


----------



## Redrosesix (Jun 27, 2009)

We take at least 2 weeks every year.  But there are many factors that weigh into this decision.  Most important, DD has asthma and the winter weather is really hard on her -- taking 2 weeks to Orlando the past 2 years was great -- she got off the puffers and would have been missing the time anyway probably.  She does well in school and can be a real pest to her teachers when she's bored (veerrry chatty when she has nothing to do). This is also the only time that she gets to spend time with both parents -- we've been separated for 7 years, and DH travels a lot for work.  I think it's really an important family togetherness trip.

In our case, we tell the teacher we'll be going at the beginning of the school year.  Some of the work is given ahead of time (and she usually has it done before we leave), she is usually given a project to do while away, and she has work to make up when she gets back eg. any tests she has missed.  Our regional tests are not designed to test the students -- they have no bearing on whether kids pass the grade, so it wouldn't matter if she missed any of those.


----------



## calgal (Jun 27, 2009)

We took our kids out of school liberally for vacations until high school. They have to miss a full week and do an independent study so that the school can collect their daily funding. Right now we have a high schooler and two younger kids at home and one parent will take the younger kids skiing, but the other stays home with the older. Our high school is very rigorous and missing even one day is difficult, and we don't want to adversely affect her studies.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jun 27, 2009)

Someone once mentioned to me, "What if all the kids were missing a week or two each year for family vacations?"

I said, then we'd be having a better economy, be a truly blessed nation and really lucky as families to have this time together.   

In a perfect world EVERY child would be able to go somewhere special on vacation with his/her family.  I agree that that special time with family away from the confines of a classroom are much more educational, eye-opening and memorable than what was lost.  

Honestly, if a teacher had a problem with it, it certainly wouldn't cause us to miss our family vacation, we can fully cooperate to make up the work but if they are real stringent about it, that's their problem.  Our sons are going to experience difficult co-workers and bosses in the future as well, but I'd rather they be happy than stress out on pleasing a stringent teacher who frowns upon family vacations during the school year.  God knows we wouldn't want them to marry a woman like that so why should we tippytoe around a teacher like that just because they had the misfortune of being assigned to one for a school year?  I'm not sure I'm getting my point across but this is what I mean, I want my sons to be happy and confident and have wonderful family vacation memories and when they grow up I want them to be attracted to smart, kind, easygoing, happy women who will also want to make family vacations a priority, not a lady who is a perfectionist who wants to follow all the rules all the time and can't relax unless everything is "just so".  My husband and I share this mentality and we are happier people for it.  Our kids' education is important - but so is building strong family ties.  Actually, comparing them hand in hand, being successful in your family life is more important than being successful in your career.  Taking a family vacation every year when we can and when we want strengthens our family unit and gives our sons role models for a happy future with their own families.


----------



## janna1 (Jun 27, 2009)

geekette said:


> I'm confused.  So they just automatically fail anything that happened while they were gone?



I am not a teacher, I am not sure how the grade work (maybe some teachers here can explain that). 

I asked the teacher to give a copy of the homework for that week, but she said she can't give to us because of the district policy. But at lease we didn't miss the tests.  My kids were still get all "A"s. I don't know whether it would affect the grade or not if we missed the test. Maybe I should ask the teacher what will happen to their grades if we missed the tests.


----------



## Zac495 (Jun 28, 2009)

mepiccolo said:


> Someone once mentioned to me, "What if all the kids were missing a week or two each year for family vacations?"
> 
> I said, then we'd be having a better economy, be a truly blessed nation and really lucky as families to have this time together.
> 
> ...



Lots of teachers are men, too.


----------



## Zac495 (Jun 28, 2009)

janna1 said:


> I am not a teacher, I am not sure how the grade work (maybe some teachers here can explain that).
> 
> I asked the teacher to give a copy of the homework for that week, but she said she can't give to us because of the district policy. But at lease we didn't miss the tests.  My kids were still get all "A"s. I don't know whether it would affect the grade or not if we missed the test. Maybe I should ask the teacher what will happen to their grades if we missed the tests.



Well, it depends on the teacher. If a test is missed, it's usually to be made up on the child's time (high school) - after school for instance - while the teacher is still on school hours. Teachers work longer than the student day - so if the teacher were required to work 8 - 4:30 and school hours were 8:45 -4, the child could make up between 8 and 8:45 or 4 - 4:30. Does that make sense?

In my class, I may or may not worry about making up a test - usually not. I don't give A, B, C in second grade - we grade 4, 3, 2, 1 (not to be translated into A, B, C ). 4 means above grade level, 3 means at grade level - etc. So if I know your child is at grade level on most work, I don't care about one test. 

It all depends on the teacher and the school district policy in your district -my homework depends on what I'm doing - I could easily figure it out - but as I said in an earlier post, I mostly give journal work which allows the child to use what she gets out of her vacation and turn it into a piece of writing that she can share with her classmates upon return. And then it's a memory for the child and family - because the vacation was documented in writing by the child.


----------



## Teresa (Jun 28, 2009)

*Who's running your family?*

I almost didn't post because I will probably get beat up (cyberly of course).

In my opinion ......

I find it totally out of whack for the schools to dictate to you what you can and cannot do with YOUR OWN CHILDREN.    Decide to stay home and miss out on a great vacation just so the kids 'might' not miss anything important or go on vacation while school is in session.    You are the parent and know what is best for your child.   

My parents pulled us out of school only one time for a week.   The trip was two weeks so it was tacked onto an Easter week off.   I was in junior high.   BEST TRIP we ever had.   Went to the Florida Everglades, St. Augustine and loads of historical landmarks.   DisneyWorld (they had tickets rather than all day passes back then), beaches, etc.   I'm 52 years old and think of it often - always with a smile.  I can't recall any other week when I was in school (well, supposed to be in school) that was so significant to my childhood.  Not one.   I do recall the freedom that I felt that entire trip.  And what a great feeling for a kid that age!   I thought it was 'neat' (word used back then) to be out of school and traveling with my family and having a GREAT time while the other kids back home were in class.   And all with my parents' permission.   

I had pulled my kids out an average of 1 1/2 weeks per year when they were in private school.   Part of the reason was that I was able to get just the accommodations I wanted.  But the overpowering reason was that I wanted to give my kids that same 'freedom' feeling I had.  That they are special enough to me for me to pull them out of school to go on vacation with their parents - school schedule be da**ed.   

Most of the teachers said, 'good for you'.   Hey, it's family time - way more important than a few school lessons that can be quickly made up with some additional coaching (from the parents if necessary) when they get back.   What if your child had been sick for that week?   Is his/her life going to be altered 'forever' because they missed something that was only available to learn THAT week you were gone?

It's hard for me to believe that missing a few days or a week of kindergarten is going to hurt your child - especially if your child is spending this time with YOU!   In our kindergarten each week there was a different letter of the alphabet to learn.  Everything done that week was geared around that letter.  They drew the letter, colored the letter, talked about food that started with that letter. etc.   Each day the kids counted to 'one more number' than the day before also.   So what if your child doesn't get to learn 'B' in school that way?    Will they not know those five additional numbers?   I'm going to guess though that he/she will pick those up pretty quickly.   Maybe on the playground (wink/grin/gasp).   Same goes with most grade levels in my book.  If your child won't get all flustered or upset about missing something in school (some kids love the routine of school) then you shouldn't either.   Granted, there are some 'events' (big testing, etc.) that would be inconvenient to you and your child to make up so you can steer clear of those as you please.  I understand that the teachers don't like when you take your children out for vacation as it doesn't fit in with the schedules for grading, etc.   But, really, who works for who (or it is whom? - I must have missed that the week I was gone - grin.)?  The schools are supposed to work for us - not the other way around.

As you think back to your own school days do you recall ANYTHING that you learned that was so critical that had you missed it when they were teaching it you could not have learned it later?   When I go down memory lane I remember all the busywork and the memorizing that we did that was 'worthless' to me - then and now.   Can anyone in my age range remember those silly 'sentence diagramming' we had to do?   I was really good at it - but what was the point?   That was about 2 years of 'English' that could have been skipped completely in grade school.

I realize that if your school district penalizes your child for missing school because YOU (the parent - the ultimate person responsible for your child's education) decided to take them on vacation it may not be worth it to your family to 'buck the system'.   BUT who gave the school the power to do that anyway?   But that's a whole other issue.

Learning is important.   School is just a means to that.  Your children learn many things - not just in school.

Family time - especially a vacation to someplace that gets you away from everyday things like cleaning the house, etc. - is SO important to children - and you!   If the opportunity comes up for you to go on vacation (because the accommodations or the timing works for the parents in the family) then you should take it!


----------



## PigsDad (Jun 28, 2009)

Great post, Teresa!  I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that feel the same as you.

Kurt


----------



## Redrosesix (Jun 28, 2009)

Just wanted to add this: two years ago on a trip to Indiana, DD decided she wanted to be a dolphin trainer when she grows up (we think she probably will)  We don't have an aquarium here, so this was the first time she had seen anything like that.  And this year, when they did their class projects on animals, she decided to do killer whales (because of seeing the whale show at Seaworld in Orlando -- just in case she has to work with them too)  She went on the Dolphins in Depth tour while at Seaworld, and can still remember all the signals they taught her to communicate with the dolphins.

So, we're now seeing our vacations as sort of an "independent study" opportunity -- she gets a chance to learn about the things she's interested in.  

BTW, one of her teachers commented to me that she's really great at staying in line at school (seems they were having a problem with that with some kids)  Must be those trips to Disney World.


----------



## jlr10 (Jun 29, 2009)

When we planned our first trip to Hawaii our DS was getting ready to start kindergarten. Because we believed all the hype from the school district we planned for grandma to stay with our son so he wouldn't miss out on anything important.  It was a dumb decision.  He didn't know anymore when we came back then he knew before.  His teacher we had been teaching for over 30 years told us we should have taken him, that family time was more important than anything he could have learned in those 2 weeks in kindergarten.  

When he was in the 4th grade we took him out for the second week of a two week for a vacation.  He was give the required independent study packet (which was ridculously long.) He came back almost a full week ahead of the class because they didn't get most of the work done that he had been assigned.  Teh teacher just copied her lesson plan in the packet.  My favorite part was the assignment the teacher gave him which required he use a globe. Unfortunately we forgot to pack one!  

When our son was a junior and we planned a family vacation he requested that he go on the week at Thanksgiving, when the school was closed, and then return a week ahead of us and stay with his cousin. He felt that the work in high school was too hard to miss that much school.  We let him be the judge of what was best for him.

As for the reasoning that the school district loses money, that one is not one we took into consideration. With the school year running from mid August until mid June, and the break between summer school and the start of school being one week it was almost impossible to plan around the district schedule. Our school district,  rarely takes the opinions of the marjority parents into consideration when they set the school calendar, so we didn't take their lack of funding into consideration when we planned our vacation.


----------



## Zac495 (Jun 29, 2009)

PigsDad said:


> Great post, Teresa!  I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that feel the same as you.
> 
> Kurt



Yes - including me, the teacher.


----------



## Zac495 (Jun 29, 2009)

Redrosesix said:


> Just wanted to add this: two years ago on a trip to Indiana, DD decided she wanted to be a dolphin trainer when she grows up (we think she probably will)  We don't have an aquarium here, so this was the first time she had seen anything like that.  And this year, when they did their class projects on animals, she decided to do killer whales (because of seeing the whale show at Seaworld in Orlando -- just in case she has to work with them too)  She went on the Dolphins in Depth tour while at Seaworld, and can still remember all the signals they taught her to communicate with the dolphins.
> 
> So, we're now seeing our vacations as sort of an "independent study" opportunity -- she gets a chance to learn about the things she's interested in.
> 
> BTW, one of her teachers commented to me that she's really great at staying in line at school (seems they were having a problem with that with some kids)  Must be those trips to Disney World.




:hysterical: :hysterical:


----------



## cvmar (Jun 30, 2009)

My son will be in the 6th grade and we have pulled him out of school for 2 weeks each year since his 1st grade year. IMHO nothing can compare spending quality time with family. My husband and I both work full time and the weekends are so busy just catching up on what cannot be done during the week. We cherish our family vacations. Fortunately his 1st grade teacher with 20+ years experience said nothing is more important than time with family not even school. I too agree with Teresa's post. We will have to plan around major testing times in middle school and high school but I am planning on taking my son out of school as long as we are able to afford vacations.


----------



## CarolF (Jun 30, 2009)

Travelling was my best investment in my son's education as far as I'm concerned.  We took him out of school for vacations every year.  He missed over 5 weeks of school when we took him backpacking through Asia when he was 5 years old and we did it again when he was 6.  It was cheaper to travel then and we only had to pay 1/2 the school fees for that term.

Instead of learning about volcanoes from books he climbed an active volcano, looked in the top, smelled it, felt it, lived it.  He had to somehow communicate with people who spoke a different language, live in their villages and homes, follow their rules and customs, learn how to eat their food, saw the inside of a mosque and heard the call to prayer that woke him each morning, learnt to snorkel and swam through fields of seaweed, saw how bats live and what they smell like.  We read him the Ramayana each day, we attended traditional dances each night and discussed love, life and death afterwards.

We wanted a child of the world, with a knowledge of many different customs and religions and it's hard to learn that in the classroom.


----------



## GadgetRick (Jun 30, 2009)

My son just finished kindergarten the other day. Got another who will be starting kindergarten in a couple of years.

Since my older son was 2, we've taken a trip to Disney for his birthday during the first week in December (his birthday is the 4th). We didn't hesitate to take the trip this year even though he's in school. Why? Well, first of all, it's only kindergarten. Kindergarten is more about learning the maturity to move into 1st grade than about learning things. He already knew more than enough to go to 1st grade (we spend a LOT of money on pre-K schools!). But, even if he didn't, we still would have taken the trip.

We intend on taking the trip again this year and for years to come. School is very important but family time is also very important. As long as they're keeping their grades up (as they get older) and/or behaving properly, I see absolutely no reason NOT to take time off from time to time. Most of us do take time off from work so why should it be any different for kids?

Studies are also showing (quite alarmingly) how important play is for younger children. They're finding out there isn't enough play time for the younger kids in schools these days because we all want the super genius child. They've found out this hurts them later in life.

I also live believing we're only here once and we may as well enjoy it (to a certain extent). If it's not hurting anything (and I don't see how it is) then have at it!

I'm sure, if you asked my son about things which happened during his first year in school, he'd probably remember much more about the two trips to Disney we made (went during Easter break, took two days that time, too). He also didn't miss any other days during the year.

Someone also mentioned something about schools losing funding for those days. Honestly, that wouldn't be my problem and it wouldn't even factor into my decision. I don't think it should factor into anyone's decision either. Your family is much more important than whether a school receives money while your child is in school.

Of course, what people do with their children is their business so I'm not trying to convince anyone to think like I do. I value the time we spend for his birthday more than what he'd learn during that week. As he gets older, we'll get homework for him (his teacher this year didn't give him any). I don't see a problem taking time off.


----------



## csalter2 (Jun 30, 2009)

*Maybe it's just me*

I have read every post on this thread, and maybe it's just me but I see this very, very differently. I see a lot of people justifying their actions on why they are taking their kids out of school. Of course as parents we can do whatever we desire with our kids. We can take them anywhere in the world. Schools do not dictate and should not dictate when you should go on vacation or where. However, that is not what schools are doing. They are merely asking you to follow the rules as they are asked to provide everyone with an education at the same time. I found it interesting that one of the post found that schools are just a place of rules and seemed to insinuate that they were not important. That's the spirit that we would like our kids to have. I found it interesting that a teacher was found on vacation when she was supposed to be at school teaching. I must say as a school administrator I find that most disappointing. I bet she said she called in sick. 

I will not dispute that there is much learning that can be done when a child travels. In fact, I have taken my children to various places such as Japan, Hawaii, Europe and South America. However, I don't find the schools' calendar to be so restricting that I cannot take my vacations during school holidays. Yes, it may be a more difficult to get some years or prices can be higher, but if these things are as important as you say they are to you then why not spend the extra money. If spending family time is that invaluable to you then why can't you spend the extra dollars to do that without infringing upon other students and the teachers' time. Yes, it is extra time for students and teachers as they have to catch you up to the rest of the class. 

Schools are not telling you not to have family time. Schools are not asking you to not travel. They are asking you to have your child attend 180 days out of 365 for instruction.  I guess that is asking a lot to some of you. Asking you to plan when you know the calendar at least a year in advance to take vacations during non school days. 

Yes, the elementary school days are not as bad. I read one post where a parent said that there kid did not miss that much in the week they were gone as they reviewed and colored one alphabet letter for the week as they did various activities. That could be true for your child maybe not. It may be that one lesson or moment that the teacher had an exercise or assignment that might have had the light bulb click on for your child. We never know what or when an aha moment will come for a child.  Frankly, many of you are claiming that you are able to do work on your vacations and do journals and other activities to further learning. Frankly, I don't buy it for the masses who may be doing this. Many don't have the discipline or patience or desire to do this with their kids consistently. If you truly do, then you are not the norm. 

What happens when your kids get sick. This does happen so we have the week that your child is out on vacation and then happens to later be sick. That in some cases could extend your children to being out a few weeks if a person has taken a two week vacation. 

Being a teacher in the United States of America is one of the most difficult jobs and most unappreciated jobs in America. There are lofty and sometimes very unrealistic goals placed upon them. In one classroom it is not uncommon for a teacher to have kids who are extremely intelligent, autistic, non English speaking, ADD/ADHD and varying academic levels in one classroom. You as parents and the politicians who want to say they had an impact on kids' education have every expectation that the kids will be able to compete academically on tests with other countries. I would like to know how many Japanese and Chinese families are missing school to go on vacations? 

Don't get me wrong, I believe that vacations are good for families. I just think they should be during the assigned vacation times that your school or district has allotted.In my opinion. It will take a lot to satisfy so many.

Yes, missing a week for some kids will not be a problem. Some kids will suffer academically. However, I just thought that many of the posts were just justifications and not really valid reasons but ones of convenience for taking kids out of school.


----------



## GadgetRick (Jun 30, 2009)

Although I understand what you're saying, it doesn't make much sense. What if someone can't take a vacation during the, "alloted time," from the school? I mean, it's no different than someone taking a vacation from work. I'm sure they'd love if you never took off from your job.

Again, to each his (or her) own. However, I see absolutely no problem with taking a child out for a vacation. What's the difference between that and an illness or death in the family? Or being sick. All are unexpected (by the school) and the child is making up time either way.


----------



## swift (Jun 30, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> Being a teacher in the United States of America is one of the most difficult jobs and most unappreciated jobs in America.



Ummm.. not a contest but Classified School Employees which get more job cuts every year yet are asked to do their job plus the job of the person the district just cut I think would rival that.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jun 30, 2009)

*Hey!  Teacher!  Let Those Kids Alone.*




csalter2 said:


> Being a teacher in the United States of America is one of the most difficult jobs and most unappreciated jobs in America.


Before settling into a series of software-development & software engineering jobs, my son taught math & computer science for a year at a public high school near here. 

He said it was the hardest job he's ever had, & he was glad he was able to last the whole year. 

Having the whole summer off was agreeable, however. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Teresa (Jul 1, 2009)

*Going to disagree - but politeness intended!*



csalter2 said:


> I have read every post on this thread, and maybe it's just me but I see this very, very differently. I see a lot of people justifying their actions on why they are taking their kids out of school. Of course as parents we can do whatever we desire with our kids. We can take them anywhere in the world. Schools do not dictate and should not dictate when you should go on vacation or where. However, that is not what schools are doing. They are merely asking you to follow the rules as they are asked to provide everyone with an education at the same time. I found it interesting that one of the post found that schools are just a place of rules and seemed to insinuate that they were not important. That's the spirit that we would like our kids to have. I found it interesting that a teacher was found on vacation when she was supposed to be at school teaching. I must say as a school administrator I find that most disappointing. I bet she said she called in sick.
> 
> I will not dispute that there is much learning that can be done when a child travels. In fact, I have taken my children to various places such as Japan, Hawaii, Europe and South America. However, I don't find the schools' calendar to be so restricting that I cannot take my vacations during school holidays. Yes, it may be a more difficult to get some years or prices can be higher, but if these things are as important as you say they are to you then why not spend the extra money. If spending family time is that invaluable to you then why can't you spend the extra dollars to do that without infringing upon other students and the teachers' time. Yes, it is extra time for students and teachers as they have to catch you up to the rest of the class.
> 
> ...



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.   

A few points (counterpoints?).  The schools DO dictate when we can have family time - by telling us when the children must be in school.    You even said 'assigned vacation times that your school or district has allotted' and 'follow the rules'.     

'Justifications' are what people say to make their point(s).   You have also made 'justifications' about why it's not right to take a child out of school for family time.    I realize your position as a school administrator sort of puts you in the position to 'justify' things regarding what schools do (make rules, etc.).  And it's also important that Yyou should feel that way - because keeping things streamlined (keeping everyone doing things the way the school wants them to) makes your job easier.   If you felt it was 'okay to just do whatever you want' then true chaos could result.

Regarding teachers being underappreciated and the job being difficult.    People in the United States (since you mentioned Japan and other countries) have had the freedom to pick and choose what they do for a living.   Granted, you need to take into account your skills and talents.  I'm barely 5' 2" so deciding to become a professional basketball player is out for me.   Your financial situation has an impact too, although the cost of becoming a teacher may be similar to becoming an accountant.   There are also health and physical issues that limit possibilities.  Someone who is blind shouldn't be driving a cab for a living.   

I can use the same 'difficult job and underappreciated' line for being a mother, being a janitor, heck - even being a police officer or fire fighter.   People become teachers because they either have the desire to teach or they like the idea of having summers off - or both!   There are positives and negatives to ANY job.   I'm going to guess that 99% of all teachers out there chose to be teachers - 'underappreciated' and all.   I've met some truly wonderful teachers who have stayed in the profession at great personal financial sacrifice.   It's what they love and what they are 'built' for.   But there are other professions that can boast the same dedication.   And there are some teachers who shouldn't be teachers.   They might know 'science' but they can't teach it.   That is a waste of time for them and for the students in their classes.   My kids have had some of each.

That 'light bulb' moment doesn't usually happen at school.   Sorry - but most of the light bulb moments regarding academics are during one-on-one sessions and a classroom setting hardly hits that.   And you even say that most teachers have many 'issues' (i.e. different levels of learning ability, language and medical issues, etc.) going on in the classroom.   The reality of it is that it's truly remarkable that most of the children in schools do actually learn as much academics as they do (remembering what they learned is something else entirely - grin).   There is a whole lot of other learning that is going on in those classrooms too and, unfortunately, it's mostly negative.   The reasoning skills of a grade school child is so rudimentary that trying to be 'nice' to those who are different is a hard concept to grasp.  A teacher can stand up there and say those things to the class but it is one-on-one (again) that is the only answer to helping the child understand this stuff (and it's not just one 'talk' either).  There is the opportunity for a lot more one-on-one interaction between parents and their children then between a teacher and each child.  Just the way it is.   It's not the fault of the teacher either.  So, really, the parents and the teachers both influence the children.  Why is it that a parent gets less 'credit' for 'teaching'?   Just because their not being paid?

I applaud ALL teachers for hanging in there even with all the pressures from all sides - parents expecting so much, school administrators putting them in awkward positions, politicians using them as pawns, children who don't know how to behave, etc.   

In the end, parents are responsible for the education of their children.    We, as parents, use schools to help us do that.   If a parent decides to take his own child out of school for something better then that's what he SHOULD do.  Please don't say that 'well, some parents wouldn't even send their children to school if there weren't rules.'    That's true - but that's always going to be the case.   There are also some teachers out there who shouldn't be in the classroom - because of incompetence or otherwise (danger to children).   Most parents want the best for their children.   Will parents make mistakes?   Sure.   But so do school systems.   There's always something in the paper about how some 'system' that has been in use for years is now being abandoned for something that will work better.   For a while there there was that 'team approach' that taught the children how to 'work together' (like in a work place) but the core academics for each student were weak.  

Life is fluid and there is no such thing as a 'learn it now or never learn it' moment.  Well, unless you die before you learn it - and then it probably doesn't matter.  

One last point/question - just to make everyone think!   What if you hired a cleaning person (I know this is a bad example) to clean your house and then this person told you what you were NOT allowed to do (use the toaster because it causes crumbs, use the oven because it takes too long to clean it, don't use the sink in the bathroom because you splash water on the mirror, etc.) - just so it would be easier on them the next time they came?

As I said at the beginning of my post.   I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.   I do acknowledge your point of view.   That's what makes message boards interesting!


----------



## csalter2 (Jul 1, 2009)

*Sickness is different*



GadgetRick said:


> Although I understand what you're saying, it doesn't make much sense. What if someone can't take a vacation during the, "alloted time," from the school? I mean, it's no different than someone taking a vacation from work. I'm sure they'd love if you never took off from your job.
> 
> Again, to each his (or her) own. However, I see absolutely no problem with taking a child out for a vacation. What's the difference between that and an illness or death in the family? Or being sick. All are unexpected (by the school) and the child is making up time either way.



If a person was not able to take a vacation during those times, maybe I could understand it. However, you and I know that that is not the norm. I get vacation time that I can use throughout the year, but I do not go on vacations when my son is supposed to be in school. Even as a single dad with limited funds, I still went during summer or spring break. 

If a child is sick, that is different. In fact the State of California excuses sickness. It is the planned vacation day I have a problem with when kids are supposed to be in school. I really become disturbed when kids are failing and the parents what to take them on vacation during school. Then they will blame everyone under sun except them or their child when their child is not performing well.

By the way, I have been the principal at my school for 10 years and have never had to call in sick. I am here when the kids are here. That's my job and loving it.


----------



## csalter2 (Jul 1, 2009)

swift said:


> Ummm.. not a contest but Classified School Employees which get more job cuts every year yet are asked to do their job plus the job of the person the district just cut I think would rival that.



Believe me, in California everyone is experiencing the cuts with the extra work and no additional pay. In fact, administrators in one district in California were cut 9% of their pay. They were the only ones in the whole district not teachers or classified. Oh yes, they had several of their positions cut too.


----------



## csalter2 (Jul 1, 2009)

Teresa said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
> 
> A few points (counterpoints?).  The schools DO dictate when we can have family time - by telling us when the children must be in school.    You even said 'assigned vacation times that your school or district has allotted' and 'follow the rules'.
> 
> ...



I understood you were being polite. Thank you. 

We can disagree. That's fine with me. I will agree that parents want the best for their children. However, sometimes I do observe their selfishness standing in the way of that not only for vacations but other things as well. 

As a teacher, I saw many a light bulb go on in class. It is the best thing a teacher can see. It is like a mini high for a teacher because their student who may have struggled finally got it. It brings a smile to the student and the teacher alike. It usually motivates the student and the teacher to newer heights too. 

We do agree that everyone learns at different times. 

What I shared was a different perspective. I do know that a week off during high school can literally be damaging as so much work is missed. Kids who care about their grades don't even like to miss school for the fear of the work they will miss. I hate when they are placed in that position, but there they are.  

That's life.


----------



## jlr10 (Jul 2, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> If a person was not able to take a vacation during those times, maybe I could understand it. However, you and I know that that is not the norm.



Our school district left *one week* between summer school and the start of the fall semester.  They schedule registration and fall paper packet pickups during that one week (only.)  It is supposed to be picked up by the student or parent.  One year when we schedule our vacation for that one week we were told he would not be able to start school on the first day of class, because they do not permit early pickups and anyone who misses the scheduled week will have to pick up paperwork on the first day of class, and cannot be admitted to class until the paperwork is completed and returned.  So they lost money because he travelled during school alloted vacation time. 

Due to religious commitments we cannot travel during Christmas and Spring Break (AKA Easter Break.)

On top of that the school calendar (while he was there) was not released until late spring or summer.  DH has to schedule vacations in November, before the next year's school calendar is released.  So it was like spitting in the wind to try to find a date to vacation.

Also it should be noted that schools are now assigning large projects for the schedule school breaks, so there is no break during off time either.

So, in hindsight, I guess the best thing for us to have done was just wait until our son graduated from school?

No, we were not unique.  Which is why we took him out when we needed to and why his friend's parents took their children out of school for vacations/trips.

Again, we can all agree to disagree.  As for us, we are just glad our son is in college and we don't have to work around school calendars anymore.  We just travel without the DS.


----------



## senorak (Jul 2, 2009)

From my experience, (teacher of grades 8 & 9, mom of 3)......it really depends on the age and maturity of the child.  In the district where I teach, "educational trips" are allowed, and many families take them during the school year. Those students who are always prepared for their daily schoolwork, and who tend to do well in class, always ask for  their assignments ahead of  time, and for the most part, have them completed when they return.  (I try to match their assignments to our  curriculum, i.e., if it is a level 1 Spanish class, they will have to keep a journal describing the weather, place they are visiting , etc.   If a level 2 class, they will describe what they did each day.)If they are visiting a Spanish speaking area, I ask them to use  the language, then keep a journal (in English), about the experience.)  Those students who have not been keeping up in class, (regardless of attendance), usually do not tell me they will be absent until the day before they are leaving.  Very few complete the work, and they invariably fall even further behind.

With my own children.....I noticed that once they reach high school, (9th grade in our district), they do not want to be absent for any reason....be it illness, travel, etc.  It was too difficult to keep up w/ the work, (our high school is on "block scheduling", so missing one day constitutes missing 90 minutes of a particular class).  Plus, our home district only allows for 8 days of "excused absences", and trips, (educational or otherwise), quickly add up.   Only an excuse accompanied by a doctor's note will not count towards the 8 day maximum.  

As a teacher, I am limited to traveling over the school vacation times:  summer, longer holiday breaks, etc.  And even in the summer, I have to work around taking classes (to keep my teaching certificate active), kids' sports schedules, etc.  I find that as my children get older, it is more and more difficult to schedule a "family vacation".  It's not just working around the schooll calendar, but as another poster mentioned, the sports and other activities also cut into the vacation time.  And I'm not talking the "community league" sports, but the more competitive travel teams and the high school teams.  For example, my 12 year old is on a travel baseball team this summer....tournaments every weekend, culminating with a week in Cooperstown in early Aug.  Players are "encouraged" not to vacation until the end of the season....which wouldn't work for us, as my daughter will start her high school hockey practice in mid-August  (required to attend if you play high school sports).  I generally schedule the TS trips at least one year or more in advance....and it's been a huge headache trying to work around all the schedules.  Add in the fact that the 19 year old doesn't want to travel w/ the family....(which breaks my heart).  

Anyway, for this week's vacation in Hilton Head, I drove down with my daughter and her friend, while DH stayed home with my sons, (while the  12 year old played in his tournament).  They then drove 13 hours through the night on Sunday to join us when the tournament was over.  DS is missing practices this  week, and the upcoming tournament, (coach is not pleased, but this was scheduled a year in advance).  And things will only get worse as the kids get older.  

DEB


----------



## GadgetRick (Jul 2, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> If a person was not able to take a vacation during those times, maybe I could understand it. However, you and I know that that is not the norm. I get vacation time that I can use throughout the year, but I do not go on vacations when my son is supposed to be in school. Even as a single dad with limited funds, I still went during summer or spring break.
> 
> If a child is sick, that is different. In fact the State of California excuses sickness. It is the planned vacation day I have a problem with when kids are supposed to be in school. I really become disturbed when kids are failing and the parents what to take them on vacation during school. Then they will blame everyone under sun except them or their child when their child is not performing well.
> 
> By the way, I have been the principal at my school for 10 years and have never had to call in sick. I am here when the kids are here. That's my job and loving it.



We're not talking about taking a child who is failing out for a vacation now are we? I wouldn't be taking my kids on a vacation during the school year if they were failing. However, who are you (or any school) to tell me (or anyone else) whether we can take our children out for a vacation, death in the family, sickness, or anything else? Being out because you're sick isn't any different than a planned vacation other than it's not planned. The child is supposed to be in school but is not. So what if the child wasn't _that_ sick? Should they then be in school? And who decides when they're sick enough to miss school?

It is entirely a personal choice we can all make. You don't think we should take our kids our for a vacation and that's fine. However, to feel you (as a principal) should have the right to dictate when we can take a child out is a bit much when you sit back and think about it. All schools I've ever attended as well as the school system my son now attends has guidelines about how many days you're allowed to miss. If you miss too many, there are penalties (i.e. left back a year). As long as you're within those guidelines I see no problem with it and I'd never judge someone who wanted to take their kids our or anyone who _didn't_ want to take their kids out.

At the end of the day, I understand your stance. However, it doesn't mean I think it's right for my child (depending on the circumstances).

You also mention missing a week of high school is critical to that age range of students. I'm sorry, I don't buy that either. In all the years I went to school, there was never a one week period where, had I missed it, I wouldn't have been able to catch up. I (obviously) never went to your school but I find it hard to believe it can be shown how it would damage a child so much to miss a week's worth of school at any age. I'd love to see some hard studies showing this is the case then I'd believe it but, for now, I don't believe it at all.

To your point about people (generally) being able to take time off during the summer when they're supposed to. This is not always the case. If you work in a job where you've got to try and get that time off the summer time is the most desired time off. Add to that, sports (school sports) has expanded to now include a good part of the summer in some cases (which I think is ridiculous, btw), and you don't have nearly as much time to fit that vacation in as you once did. My best friend's daughter has practice starting at the middle of August now. I'm hearing this kind of thing more and more often. So this eats into available time as well.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 5, 2009)

I just wanted to mention that my DH and I and I think a lot of the other posters who chose to take their kids out of school for vacation during the school year weren't making excuses or trying to justify their decision.  It's also not about money.  If we're dropping approx. four to five thousand per vacation do you really think a little more to vacation when we want is the deciding factor?

We WANT to vacation during the school year when 90% of other families are in school.  It does make a huge difference on the quality of your vacation.  If you've never vacationed in say, early May, compared to the end of June, then you don't know what you're missing.  Our family vacations are expensive and something we look forward to all year long.  We don't want to spend it in a bad mood because we can't find lounge chairs, everything we want to do is sold out, the restaurants are an hour wait, etc.  

Keep in mind that because we know we are going to take our kids out during the school year we do take our children's education seriously by making sure that we spend time with them every night doing their homework and making sure that they are staying current with their class.  Even as our children get older we will not let them ever get behind, because as parents we can control how much time they spend learning versus playing, i.e., if there is ever a sign they are falling behind in class then they will spend that much more time in the evening learning their lessons instead of playing Wii.  

I can see where a teacher or school district employee who *has the whole summer off* would find it difficult to understand why parents take their kids out of school for vacation.  But remember, most of us work all year long, an average of 49-50 weeks.  Do you really think all of us with children are going to be able to vacation Thanksgiving week, Christmas week, Easter week or during the hot summer months?  I know my friends on the east coast like to get away from the cold winter months.

My boss is the hardest working person I've ever met in my life by far.  By default that makes me, his "right hand", someone who works really hard to try and keep up with him.  We make our vacations work by working extra hard before we leave and even harder when we get back.  Our family vacations are so wonderul that it's worth it.  I feel the same way about my kids doing assigned work while on vacation to stay on track.  It is worth it.  If it makes it a little tougher for the teacher, because they have to grade one week of my kid's work all at one time instead of over a week's period I have little sympathy because that's life.  I don't deal with students I deal with clients - approx. 400 of them at any given time.  Some of them are easier to deal with than others and I have to deal with them 49 weeks of the year, not just September through June.  Honestly, I repeat what I said before, all 4 of my teacher's kids were WONDERFUL about us going to Hawaii during the school year-they gave us no hassle about it.  Glad I dealt with them and not others who would rain on my family's parade.


----------



## Transit (Jul 5, 2009)

*Rule are in place for good reason.*

I work for a school board in my area (non-instuctional) and in this thread everones kid is a good student and completes the work assigned to go on vacation with. The problem is *this is not what really happens* for the most part . Many times there are simply no notifications made,no assignments picked up,the kid is average in most classes (C) and the vacation or the unexplained absence will most likely cause a further depleted grade. Many abences are simply unexcused and unexplained.The problem of why is little Johnny failing is dumped on the teachers lap with parents and admin. wanting to know why?


----------



## jgirvine (Jul 5, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> I have read every post on this thread, and maybe it's just me but I see this very, very differently. I see a lot of people justifying their actions on why they are taking their kids out of school. Of course as parents we can do whatever we desire with our kids. We can take them anywhere in the world. Schools do not dictate and should not dictate when you should go on vacation or where. However, that is not what schools are doing. They are merely asking you to follow the rules as they are asked to provide everyone with an education at the same time. I found it interesting that one of the post found that schools are just a place of rules and seemed to insinuate that they were not important. That's the spirit that we would like our kids to have. I found it interesting that a teacher was found on vacation when she was supposed to be at school teaching. I must say as a school administrator I find that most disappointing. I bet she said she called in sick.
> 
> I will not dispute that there is much learning that can be done when a child travels. In fact, I have taken my children to various places such as Japan, Hawaii, Europe and South America. However, I don't find the schools' calendar to be so restricting that I cannot take my vacations during school holidays. Yes, it may be a more difficult to get some years or prices can be higher, but if these things are as important as you say they are to you then why not spend the extra money. If spending family time is that invaluable to you then why can't you spend the extra dollars to do that without infringing upon other students and the teachers' time. Yes, it is extra time for students and teachers as they have to catch you up to the rest of the class.
> 
> ...



Well, I have to say I agree with this poster.


----------



## Patri (Jul 5, 2009)

jgirvine said:


> Now, today, they are both adults, both with college degrees....  I would say that parents who choose to take your kid out of school is transmitting a message that school is not important.
> 
> my 2 cents, worth less than that.



Two of mine have college degrees, great careers and they took vacations during the school year. Heck, even the senior class trip was during the school year, sanctioned by the school, and the students who didn't go went to class.  What do you say about that?
Adults take vacations during the year. Are their jobs not important?
Everyone here has posted what is right for them and what has worked for them. Who are you to judge?


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 6, 2009)

Transit said:


> I work for a school board in my area (non-instuctional) and in this thread everones kid is a good student and completes the work assigned to go on vacation with. The problem is *this is not what really happens* for the most part . Many times there are simply no notifications made,no assignments picked up,the kid is average in most classes (C) and the vacation or the unexplained absence will most likely cause a further depleted grade. Many abences are simply unexcused and unexplained.The problem of why is little Johnny failing is dumped on the teachers lap with parents and admin. wanting to know why?



By your description it sounds like these kids would be failing or at the least struggling regardless of whether they took vacation or not and it doesn't describe the behavior of the parents who take responsibility for their kids, like ourselves and the other posters here who plan their vacations in advance and advise the school in advance.  It is irresponsible to lump us all in the same basket.  

Another angle to look at it:  With one child absent for a week, the teacher has more time to spend with the other kids in his/her classroom that week.  Increasing class size seems to be something teachers are really concerned about and for that week us, as parents, are teaching our children instead of the teacher.  You can't argue it one way and not have the same argument stand the other way (one less child in the classroom being a benefit to the teacher).  

Also, we parents can be pretty good teachers since we have just one or two "students" to concentrate on.  For example, this summer we are making sure our 5 year old starts kindergarten reading (almost there) and that our 6 year old going into first grade writes in a journal every night to practice his handwriting, spelling and grammar.  Just because our kids are not in school for the summer doesn't mean we stop teaching them ourselves.  Give us parents some credit and please don't paint the grim picture you do about the kids who take vacation during the school year.  That would be as irresponsible as saying most teachers do not want to go above and beyond school hours for his/her students, which also is not a true statement.  

We can agree to disagree on our respective positions but the bottom line is this:  It's our children and we will do what we feel is in THEIR best interest, not the school district's, not the teacher's, but our kids' best interest...and that is a great yearly family vacation when we want/can take it.  My husband and I both have great jobs we love and we didn't get them by sticking to 9 to 5 rules which is the equivalent of never missing school for family time.  We both work really hard but we both have pretty much made our own schedules and both of our employers really appreciate us because we work really hard when we work, harder than the Homer Simpson types who come in and punch the clock at 9 am and 5 pm.  It's amazing, when you don't assume that people can't get a job done without watching their clocked in time like a hawk, how much they may surprise you because they feel appreciated for what they actually do, instead of the number of minutes worked.  I'd like to think my kids' teachers are going to notice their hard work and learning milestones more than be counting the days they attended school.  I bet it would be interesting to see who was more successful at the end of the day:  the kids who never missed a day of school or the ones who had an opportunity to travel as children.  I know which hand I'm betting and I'm betting my kids' future on it.


----------



## csalter2 (Jul 6, 2009)

*The Reality is Different*

I really enjoy reading your posts. I find this an interesting topic. I must share with you that most of you, if all that you're saying about being conscientious and helping your child do work on vacation, etc., etc., etc., is *not the norm*. 

I have worked in education over 20 years. I have seen it all too often in both higher and lower socio-economic groups. It is usually the higher socio-economic groups that want more time and attention for their kids whom are taking the week of vacation. Many parents cannot do physics, chemistry, calculus, or trigonometry and their children are missing and that extra time is subtracted from the rest of the students. 

We have a trip during the school year to Europe and South America, but I make sure that it's during Spring Break or when school is out for summer. 

I understand and respect all of your points, but I must share with you that you should place your money where your mouth is and show that school is important by not taking your kids out during the school year and wait until the breaks. You do put strain on the teachers and school staff. In my opinion, your actions speak louder than your words.

You look at it in terms of one. I look at it in terms of over 3000 and if I were a superintendent in a large school district like NY I would see it in terms of over hundreds of thousands.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. There are some kids who are fine and don't need much assistance, but believe me, I have been a teacher and even strong students sometimes need extra attention if they have been out for a week. 

This is not an opinion, but a fact. thus,  I will not post on this point again.


----------



## Transit (Jul 6, 2009)

mepiccolo said:


> By your description it sounds like these kids would be failing or at the least struggling regardless of whether they took vacation or not and it doesn't describe the behavior of the parents who take responsibility for their kids, like ourselves and the other posters here who plan their vacations in advance and advise the school in advance.  It is irresponsible to lump us all in the same basket.
> You missed the point of my post .Absence abuse takes place every day.The rules are in place to curb that abuse.Most school districts do not have a problem with families who take leave properly.In my school district if you don't follow the leave rules you have a date in court.
> Another angle to look at it:  With one child absent for a week, the teacher has more time to spend with the other kids in his/her classroom that week.  Increasing class size seems to be something teachers are really concerned about and for that week us, as parents, are teaching our children instead of the teacher.  You can't argue it one way and not have the same argument stand the other way (one less child in the classroom being a benefit to the teacher). It's no benefit to a teacher to get a child caught up and back in sync with the class.
> 
> ...


The last part of your post isn't related to what was quoted.It sounds like an emotional response to institutional rules.If anyone has a problem with thier school board rules you need to lobby the board members to change the rules you don't like.


----------



## GadgetRick (Jul 6, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> I really enjoy reading your posts. I find this an interesting topic. I must share with you that most of you, if all that you're saying about being conscientious and helping your child do work on vacation, etc., etc., etc., is *not the norm*.
> 
> I have worked in education over 20 years. I have seen it all too often in both higher and lower socio-economic groups. It is usually the higher socio-economic groups that want more time and attention for their kids whom are taking the week of vacation. Many parents cannot do physics, chemistry, calculus, or trigonometry and their children are missing and that extra time is subtracted from the rest of the students.
> 
> ...


First of all, who cares whether little Johnny is doing extra work on vacation or not. Again, show me hard evidence which shows taking a child out of school (at _any_ age) harms their education. I've never seen anything like that.

Also, what, "strain," do I put on my son's teacher and school staff by taking him out during the school year. I'm sorry, I don't buy that line either. Quite honestly, I respect _everyone_ who chooses to get up every morning to work in order to support themselves and/or family (teachers included), however, I am tired of hearing how, "underappreciated," teachers are and other things like this. Come on, teaching is no harder than any other real job out there. Sure, you have challenges, too many kids, never enough funding, etc. However, look at those of us who work (not as teachers). Same problems only we work more hours and don't get summers off. People are afraid to say these things for fear of offending teachers, I am not. If I had known then what I know now, I would have become a teacher. Great job, great benefits, etc. Can you go out and make more money? Sure, you always can but, as a teacher, you don't have the same fears many of us have in our daily jobs (i.e. losing your job, company going out of business, etc.).

Again, I understand both sides of the argument of taking a kid out or not, however, the difference is, those of us who choose to take our kids out during school do not judge others who choose not to. Whereas, many who choose not to are judging those of us who choose to do it. This is what I (and many others) take offense to. I rarely judge people by the decisions they make. I don't know why that person makes that decision and am not in their shoes when they do. I live my life by not judging others since I have no right to.


----------



## csalter2 (Jul 6, 2009)

GadgetRick said:


> First of all, who cares whether little Johnny is doing extra work on vacation or not. Again, show me hard evidence which shows taking a child out of school (at _any_ age) harms their education. I've never seen anything like that.
> 
> Also, what, "strain," do I put on my son's teacher and school staff by taking him out during the school year. I'm sorry, I don't buy that line either. Quite honestly, I respect _everyone_ who chooses to get up every morning to work in order to support themselves and/or family (teachers included), however, I am tired of hearing how, "underappreciated," teachers are and other things like this. Come on, teaching is no harder than any other real job out there. Sure, you have challenges, too many kids, never enough funding, etc. However, look at those of us who work (not as teachers). Same problems only we work more hours and don't get summers off. People are afraid to say these things for fear of offending teachers, I am not. If I had known then what I know now, I would have become a teacher. Great job, great benefits, etc. Can you go out and make more money? Sure, you always can but, as a teacher, you don't have the same fears many of us have in our daily jobs (i.e. losing your job, company going out of business, etc.).
> 
> Again, I understand both sides of the argument of taking a kid out or not, however, the difference is, those of us who choose to take our kids out during school do not judge others who choose not to. Whereas, many who choose not to are judging those of us who choose to do it. This is what I (and many others) take offense to. I rarely judge people by the decisions they make. I don't know why that person makes that decision and am not in their shoes when they do. I live my life by not judging others since I have no right to.



I know that I said I would not post anymore on this, but I can't let this go. 

First, you can do whatever you want with your kids. However, in our country we do have compulsory attendance laws so kids should be in school. Secondly, maybe your kid is fine, but there is a strong correlation which research supports that attendance and academic achievement are strongly related. Does a week make a difference? It probably doesn't, but like I said it usually is not just a week in a year of missed school. Many kids legitimately get sick or there could be other circumstances that require a kid to miss school. Life happens. 

*In California, thousands of teachers are losing their jobs, even tenured teachers*. I am not sure where you get the idea that they can't lose their jobs. I know New York funds differently, but teachers are affected by the economy here. School districts also close schools when the enrollment drops, this can also cause teachers to lose their jobs. Yes, I am talking about public schools. 

I am not judging anyone, but offering a differing opinion on the other side of the equation of taking kids out of school. If you consciously decide to take your child out of school for a week. Fine, that's you're right although for vacations it's not an excusable absence, at least in California it isn't.  If you're kid doesn't need any extra time for the teacher who went into great detail with the other 180 to 200 kids on the assignments that were given during the week you decided to take off then that's fine. If your child doesn't need special treatment to catch up that's fine. You wanted special treatment when you wanted the teacher to take extra time to give him/her lessons to take over the break. If a teacher does not take extra time with your child becuase you made a decision to take a vacation, people say the teacher does not care. They forget that they made a decision that may have caused their child to fall behind in a class, but they will blame the teacher. 

The worse part of a teacher's job is that everyone want to hold the teacher accountable. Who is holding the student and parent accountable. No one and that's the problem. We are spoiled Americans. We live in a great country, but we are spoiled. We don't like rules and we are now suffering because of it as a country. 

There is absolutely no more from me on this subject. Promise!!!


----------



## Transit (Jul 6, 2009)

GadgetRick said:


> First of all, who cares whether little Johnny is doing extra work on vacation or not. Again, show me hard evidence which shows taking a child out of school (at _any_ age) harms their education. I've never seen anything like that.
> When leaves are givin some schools require work be done as part of the terms of granting the leave..
> Also, what, "strain," do I put on my son's teacher and school staff by taking him out during the school year. I'm sorry, I don't buy that line either. Quite honestly, I respect _everyone_ who chooses to get up every morning to work in order to support themselves and/or family (teachers included), however, I am tired of hearing how, "underappreciated," teachers are and other things like this. Come on, teaching is no harder than any other real job out there. Sure, you have challenges, too many kids, never enough funding, etc. However, look at those of us who work (not as teachers). Same problems only we work more hours and don't get summers off. People are afraid to say these things for fear of offending teachers, I am not. If I had known then what I know now, I would have become a teacher. Great job, great benefits, etc. Can you go out and make more money? Sure, you always can but, as a teacher, you don't have the same fears many of us have in our daily jobs (i.e. losing your job, company going out of business, etc.).
> Most teachers I know love their kids and love their jobs and have very good working relationships with the families of the students. It's not the type of work you can do well if you don't like it.Administration and the school board make the rules the teachers must abide by.
> Again, I understand both sides of the argument of taking a kid out or not, however, the difference is, those of us who choose to take our kids out during school do not judge others who choose not to. Whereas, many who choose not to are judging those of us who choose to do it. This is what I (and many others) take offense to. I rarely judge people by the decisions they make. I don't know why that person makes that decision and am not in their shoes when they do. I live my life by not judging others since I have no right to.


I don't think any posters are judging. They are just sharing opinons that are different than yours.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 7, 2009)

In California teachers are losing jobs because student enrollment has gone down significantly in the past few years-thanks to the bad economy and people moving away and no more large influx of people- and there were way too many teachers for the amount of students enrolled.  EVERY business in California is experiencing layoffs, probably more significantly than teachers are.  It's not just teachers-California's economy is in the tank.  

[Off topic political comments deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]

I also don't agree with lumping all the unexcused absences during the school year (i.e., ditching) as being the same as parents who notify the schools in advance of their family vacations.  Also, if my child is out 10 days or more they can do independent study and it is not considered "unexcused", so apparently my school district is a little more realistic than others.

[Off topic political comments deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]

I realize my "opinion" won't be appreciated by some of you, but then, your "opinions" are not appreciated by us parents who are still being lumped into the "bad parent" basket for our choices.  

[Off topic political comments deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]

I'm finding that the differing opinions boil down to this:  I want to take my kids out of school for vacation when I want and I am very responsible about it, apply for independent study well in advance, return all the required homework as soon as we return, and make sure my kids are doing as well as if not better than their level requires.  The differing opinion is that I shouldn't be allowed to do this because somehow this is not fair to the teachers, there is a lot of abuse out there by many in regards to unexcused absences, a lot of kids out there are failing and blaming it on the teachers and all families should vacation between certain holiday weeks and summer months to make it easy on the teachers.  

Conclusion:  (1) Thank you brave U.S. troops for allowing us to have these type of debates and keeping us safe to live life freely.


----------



## Mel (Jul 7, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> I understand and respect all of your points, but I must share with you that you should place your money where your mouth is and show that school is important by not taking your kids out during the school year and wait until the breaks. You do put strain on the teachers and school staff. In my opinion, your actions speak louder than your words.


There are many ways to show our respect for the schools - I would bet that most of the people posting to this thread are actively involved in their children's education.  The schools have rules, and among those rules are how many days a child may be absent without serious repercussions.  If the school district has a rule that my child will lose credit after missing a class more than 6 times without a medical excuse, to me that implies that those first 6 absences are allowed, and within the rules.  If we are working within those rules, how are we teaching our kids not to abide by the rules?

How do we show our kids that school is important?  By making sure they are not behind before we leave on vacation, and seeing that they either get their work ahead of time, or complete the missed assignments within the time allowed when they get back.  Again, this is within the scholl district's rules.

Yes, it would be nice if everyone could take their vacations according to the school schedule, but it just doesn't work that way.  I work as a Tax preparer - I was lucky this year, because our school's spring break was AFTER April 15, but it doesn't always work that way.  Our February break also fits poorly with my work schedule.  A large percentage of parents work for small companies, who can't afford to let everyone take the same vacation weeks.  Maybe, if they're lucky, everyone can take a single week during the summer, but single week vacations don't work.  Someone still has to be in the office.

I think those that do their best to work with the teachers and the schools to keep the kids on track are teaching their kids an important lesson.  We all have to set priorities in our lives, and sometimes those priorities conflict.  We have to learn to balance those priorities, and make them work together.  We teach our children that each of our decisions has consequences, and we must learn to live with those consequences, and accept responsibility for our choices.

For those that take issue with parents who take kids out who are barely passing, and expect help keeping the kids from failing - it is the overall package that you should take issue with, the behavior of those parents.  These are the same parents who complain when a teacher "gives" their child a poor grade, rather than recognize that the student earned that grade.

I would much rather we extend the school year a couple of weeks, and allow families to take 2 weeks of their choice (teacher too, have building subs who rotate through the classrooms as necessary).  Or spread those 180 days more evenly over the course of the year, allowing 2-week vacations instead.  My kids hate summer vacation, because it means when school starts again in the fall, it will be time to review everything from the final months of the previous year, and they won't learn anything new for the first month, maybe 2.  While they read, and make use of what they have learned during their time off, most of their classmates do not.  Perhaps we should just vacation the first two weeks of school, and they can return after their classmates are further along in their review?   

Most here seem to care enough to plan around the schools to some degree, and to stop school-time vacations when their children can no longer keep up during extended vacations.  That seems reasonable to me.  For any of us that work for a salary, we are paid for doing a job, not for the time spent doing that job.  If we insist kids must put their hours in, aren't we teaching them that the time spent is more important?  If the particular job can only be done while sitting at a particular desk, they yes, the time is critical, but otherwise I think the learning process is what matters.


----------



## teachingmyown (Jul 7, 2009)

If you're looking for opinions, then...

Mine is that for Kindergarten there is nothing a child will learn or experience at school that would compete with the experiences offered by a vacation with the family.  Even being stuck in a cabin somewhere due to bad weather but playing games and laughing together wouldn't change this opinion because time with family and the bonds it builds are simply beyond ANYTHING any "school" can offer.

Thirteen years later, however, when the student is in the 12th grade, taking time away from the established school schedule has deeper and possibly more drastic ramifications.  GPA's can be damaged by unexcused absences,  possibly influencing college admissions choices, which wouldn't be good.

The years in between K and 12 shift gradually, depending on the school system and its policies and flexibility.  In the end, my opinion is that the parents have the right to decide what is best for their children but there are many, many professional educators eager to take that mantle onto their own shoulders.

We have always enjoyed vacationing off-season, at least until the last couple of years when for the first time we've had to accommodate school schedules (since our oldest is in college).


----------



## Patri (Jul 7, 2009)

michelle said:


> My oldest son is starting Kindergarten in September and even though I am very exited for him, it would seem our days of vacationing in the low season are sadly over.
> 
> But I have heard of people taking their kids out of school during the school year, and certainly, when we were in Orlando in May, the place was packed with school age kids. I did not grow up here, so do not have any experience with the concept of taking kids out of school. (Is it new?)
> 
> ...




Ahhh, poor Michelle. You ask an innocent and sincere question and see where this thread ends up. :hysterical: :whoopie:   
Just do what you want to do. You know what's right for your family. (Enjoy your vacation.)


----------



## GadgetRick (Jul 8, 2009)

csalter2 said:


> I know that I said I would not post anymore on this, but I can't let this go.
> 
> First, you can do whatever you want with your kids. However, in our country we do have compulsory attendance laws so kids should be in school. Secondly, maybe your kid is fine, but there is a strong correlation which research supports that attendance and academic achievement are strongly related. Does a week make a difference? It probably doesn't, but like I said it usually is not just a week in a year of missed school. Many kids legitimately get sick or there could be other circumstances that require a kid to miss school. Life happens.


Right, we have compulsory attendance laws which allow for a child to be out without an excuse. So what's the problem as long as you're within these laws/guidelines?

And I agree there is research which shows attendance and academic achievement go hand in hand, however, I also will say these laws/guidelines are made with this research in mind. I'm guessing this research is talking about the extreme--where a child is missing a LOT of school, not a week off for a vacation. If I'm wrong, please show me the research and I will humbly apologize and admit you're correct.



csalter2 said:


> *In California, thousands of teachers are losing their jobs, even tenured teachers*. I am not sure where you get the idea that they can't lose their jobs. I know New York funds differently, but teachers are affected by the economy here. School districts also close schools when the enrollment drops, this can also cause teachers to lose their jobs. Yes, I am talking about public schools.


Right, and throughout the country, 6.5 millionish jobs have been lost overall. So are your teachers the only ones losing their jobs?

I never said they can't lose their jobs. They are less likely to lose their job than someone working in a factory or a retail store--especially when they have tenure.

And a school district isn't going to lose money because I've taken my child out for a vacation. If I move and my child no longer attends the school then, yes, they may loose money since they are (at least in part) funded by the number of children ENROLLED in the school (yes, I'm very involved in my son's school).



csalter2 said:


> I am not judging anyone, but offering a differing opinion on the other side of the equation of taking kids out of school. If you consciously decide to take your child out of school for a week. Fine, that's you're right although for vacations it's not an excusable absence, at least in California it isn't.  If you're kid doesn't need any extra time for the teacher who went into great detail with the other 180 to 200 kids on the assignments that were given during the week you decided to take off then that's fine. If your child doesn't need special treatment to catch up that's fine. You wanted special treatment when you wanted the teacher to take extra time to give him/her lessons to take over the break. If a teacher does not take extra time with your child becuase you made a decision to take a vacation, people say the teacher does not care. They forget that they made a decision that may have caused their child to fall behind in a class, but they will blame the teacher.


Oh but you ARE judging me and the others. You're lumping us in with the dead beat parents who don't care about their kids...and I do take offense to that as I may not be perfect but I take an active involvement with my childrens' schooling. I also am not asking for, "special treatment," if I ask for assignments. It is part of their job to do something like this. Why is it with many union jobs (like teaching) when someone asks for something out of the norm, they're being asked to do something, "special"? So for them to take a few minutes to give some assignments--which are already prepared--is asking for, "special," treatment?



csalter2 said:


> The worse part of a teacher's job is that everyone want to hold the teacher accountable. Who is holding the student and parent accountable. No one and that's the problem. We are spoiled Americans. We live in a great country, but we are spoiled. We don't like rules and we are now suffering because of it as a country.
> 
> There is absolutely no more from me on this subject. Promise!!!


And how, exactly, am I (or anyone else around here) holding teachers accountable for anything? Honestly, it's this kind of attitude from teachers which does turn many of us off about teachers. Yes, they're important (vital even) but let's stop blowing it out of proportion here. Yes, teachers work to ensure our children learn the right things (you have good and bad teachers like every job), however, this is what they're PAID to do and what they DECIDED to do. They have the option of not doing the job if they feel they're not appreciated enough. I really am sick of hearing this about teachers to be quite honest. Again, they make good money for working (almost) what would be considered a part time job by any large corporation out there. Not a full 40 hour work week (officially in most cases) and summers off. Yet they get paid a real salary (I've done mortgages for teachers--not specialized--who earn almost $100k per year. And they've been a teacher for about 8 years.). Yes, my examples are extreme, however, I'd say, on average here in NJ, teachers probably earn somewhere in the $50k-$60k range and more as they're teaching longer. Now, I'm not saying you're rich off that but that's pretty darn good for the hours they work.

I also hear about they have to grade stuff at home, blah blah blah. How about doing it during lunch or on a break? I mean, when I don't want to do things at night, that's what I (and most other people) do.

Here's an example of some extra time they might have. My son's school does a field day every year. They set up games and stuff and let the kids play all day. I was the class dad so I was helping. At lunch, myself, and the two class mothers, helped the kids get their food. The teachers--ALL of them--left us in charge of the kids (and the other class mothers/fathers of the other classes) for an hour lunch break. Now, when I say, "left us in charge," I mean, they literally LEFT. They all walked off and got their lunch somewhere else. I was shocked as were the class mothers (my son was in kindergarten). The other parents of kids in 1st/2nd/etc. all said they do this every year. It's in their contract. Hmm, must be nice to get a lunch every day like that.

So, although I'm not saying teachers don't work hard (relative to what they do), let's stop making them seem like super people. Most teachers are dedicated to doing what they've chosen/get paid to do. I applaud that. But they're not and better (or worse) than someone like myself or anyone else around here who strives to do the best they can in their current chosen profession.

Sorry about it being unpopular but it is what it is.


----------



## Pens_Fan (Jul 8, 2009)

GadgetRick said:


> And a school district isn't going to lose money because I've taken my child out for a vacation. If I move and my child no longer attends the school then, yes, they may loose money since they are (at least in part) funded by the number of children ENROLLED in the school (yes, I'm very involved in my son's school).



Schools are paid by the state per day per child.

If you take your student out for five days, then that is five days worth of pay that the school loses.  (Not looses, by the way.)

Not a whole lot of money individually, but it does add up.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 8, 2009)

Pens_Fan said:


> Schools are paid by the state per day per child.
> 
> If you take your student out for five days, then that is five days worth of pay that the school loses.  (Not looses, by the way.)
> 
> Not a whole lot of money individually, but it does add up.



So if a child is not in school one day being taught, or for a week, the school loses being paid those days for that child, sounds fair to me.  

If an attorney doesn't go to court for a client on a certain day he doesn't get paid for a court appearance that didn't happen.

If a doctor doesn't see a patient for an appointment, he doesn't get paid for that appointment.

If a personal trainer doesn't see his clients one week-should he still get paid for that week?

Again, why is there this sense of superiority by educators that they are supposed to be treated differently from the rest of society?  This is what happens in the real world where the rest of us get paid for the work we do.  It's not as if the teacher loses it out of her paycheck if my kid is not there for a week.   

[Off topic political comments deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]

In the 70's when I went to elementary school there was abundant money for schooling, after school sports, supplies, etc.  At that time it was accepted that teachers loved what they did and that's why they did it, even though the pay was not the greatest.  Here we are in 2009 and there is no money to fund after school sports, parents in large part have to pay for school supplies, the music programs and P.E. programs are going by the wayside and yet...hmmmm, let's look at what teachers make in 2009 compared to 1975 (alloting for cost of living differences obviously).  The "oh poor teacher" mentality doesn't apply any more-the pay for teachers is more than adequate in many cases, and in some cases ridiculous.  So keep pointing at the speck in parents' eyes, but that only makes us parents, focus more on the large splinters n yours.  You're on a slippery slope because the teachers I know, who KNOW they have it good, they don't complain, they keep real, real quiet because they know they have it real good compared to other professions with their salary, holidays, benefits, summers off.....


----------



## Transit (Jul 8, 2009)

michelle said:


> My oldest son is starting Kindergarten in September and even though I am very exited for him, it would seem our days of vacationing in the low season are sadly over.
> 
> But I have heard of people taking their kids out of school during the school year, and certainly, when we were in Orlando in May, the place was packed with school age kids. I did not grow up here, so do not have any experience with the concept of taking kids out of school. (Is it new?)
> 
> ...



I don't think you will have a problem if you follow the proceedure and explain you reasoning for taking a vacation during regular school hours.


----------



## Pens_Fan (Jul 8, 2009)

mepiccolo said:


> So if a child is not in school one day being taught, or for a week, the school loses being paid those days for that child, sounds fair to me.
> 
> If an attorney doesn't go to court for a client on a certain day he doesn't get paid for a court appearance that didn't happen.
> 
> ...



One problem with your logic, the student is the client here not the providor.

If the attorney shows up for the court date, but the client does not show up, the client will still be billed for the lawyer's time.

If a patient does not show up for a scheduled doctor's visit, the patient (or his insurance) may still be billed for that time.  

A student that does not show up for class is not personally billed for the time that is lost on his education, but the school district loses the money that is given to the district for that child's education even though the teacher still will be required to bring that child back to the level that he missed.

By the way, I actually would take my child out for vacations if I felt it wasn't detrimental to his overall education.

My point here is only to clarify the financial loss that the schools are subjected to when students are missing from school.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 8, 2009)

*[Please remember the TUG posting rules:  




			Avoid posting about politics, religion, or contentious social issues
Unless directly related to timesharing, such discussions are prohibited in these forums, including TUG Lounge. We've been down that road before, it was ugly, and we are not going there again.
		
Click to expand...


Every time we revisit this topic, it seems to have the same outcome.  Please stick to the topic and avoid political comments and unrelated contentious social issues.  Please attack the topic, and not other Tuggers. - DeniseM Moderator]*


----------



## GadgetRick (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok, even if they're not getting money for a child being in the school those days, why, exactly, does that matter to me? The teacher is still getting paid. The school is still open when I get back.

So, one could make the jump to say the actual attendance guidelines are (at least in part) based on this type of funding rather than a student not getting enough schooling...


----------



## Transit (Jul 8, 2009)

A few articles on the subject.
articles
articles
articles


----------



## davhu1 (Jul 9, 2009)

For grade school, probably does not matter much.  Middle school maybe.  High school becomes a harder choice and a week out of school can get the student behind if the students takes honors or AP classes.  
Other things to consider:  No all teachers have the same course plan.  Some use the same material year after year while other may not have the material less than the week before.  Is it a risk when asking for the teacher's college recommendation (I don't know)? Give the teacher at least a 2 weeks notices. Group projects?  I know some kids do not want the student missing group project in their project team again.  Make sure the student is in touch with the project team and provide response in a timely manner.   

We have taken our kids out of school for a couple of weeks when they were in grade school but not since middle school.  Unless its a special occassion, its comes down to money saving and we can find alternatives. So far without taking them out of school, we still manage to have good exchange, include summer beach weeks, disneywolrd spring/summer/xmas, hawaii (2x), ski trip out west, barbados...just plan ahead and keep searching.

There are strong opinion on both sides.  Only you know what is the right choice.  Question is what will the student miss and/or gain.  It's a trade off.


----------



## mepiccolo (Jul 9, 2009)

Pens_Fan said:


> One problem with your logic, the student is the client here not the providor.
> 
> If the attorney shows up for the court date, but the client does not show up, the client will still be billed for the lawyer's time.
> 
> ...




Wow, I'm surprised my entire post was censored instead of just parts that were actually considered political so I'll repost what I said earlier about a better comparison, since I had said if an attorney did not show up in court not that the attorney showed up and the client didn't:  Let's take, for example, if an attorney shows up at a certain courthouse one morning and he has 8 clients at that court house he is representing on that day and he misses going to the last courtroom, and doesn't represent the 8th client.  Then he would not bill for appearing on behalf of that client for that day, even though he had to be at the courthouse for the other 7 clients.  Any other business it is accepted that you get paid for what you do, and yet we're being subjected to some people's opinions that the school districts are to be held to a different standard.  We parents who take our kids out of school during the school year don't agree that we should hold the school districts to a different standard.  If I say any more Ill be subjected to being censored.:ignore:


----------



## Pens_Fan (Jul 9, 2009)

Again, your logic is faulty.

If the lawyer shows up to court to represent the 8th client, but the client does not report and then later asks the lawyer to represent him in the same case without providing payment, then the example is the same.

You are asking the district to provide for your child without allowing it to be paid by the state for doing its job.  Certainly, the teacher still gets paid, but the school district does not.


----------



## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2009)

Just to clarify, State Legislatures determine attendance laws.  Teachers, school districts, and school boards have NO control over attendance laws, but they are required by law to enforce them.  If they don't, the penalties are severe. 

Example - Recently, a school Dist. in CA made some mistakes in their scheduling and their minimum days for parent conferences, back to school night, and other activities, were a few minutes too short.  The end result was that they did not have enough minutes to total 180 school days.  The solution seems simple: add a day or 2 to the school year and make up the missing minutes.  But, our state Ed. code, as determined by our State Legislature, states that the too-short minimum days did not count at all, and all the minimum days had to be made up with full school days.  So the students had to attend school an extra day for every minimum day from the whole school year and the Dist. had to extend school into July, or be penalized with a huge funding cut.

*My point* - if you are unhappy with attendance laws, please contact your elected state representatives.  Teachers, schools, and school boards have no control over attendance laws.


----------



## Patri (Jul 10, 2009)

Can't we close this thread? It's getting tiresome and the original question has been answered.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jul 10, 2009)

*Shux, Just Take The Kids Any Time You Want & Let The Chips Fall Where They May.*




Patri said:


> Can't we close this thread? It's getting tiresome and the original question has been answered.


Or, in the alternative, it can keep going on & on _ad infinitum_ till the original question gets answered definitively to everyone's satisfaction. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 10, 2009)

I've merely skimmed most of the stuff in this thread and will address the original subject of the thread.

We did not take our children out of school for vacations.  We felt that pulling kids out of school did not send the message we wanted to send regarding the importance of education.

That simply reflects our thinking and is in no way a criticism of other people's attitudes.  Certainly there are many ways to demonstrate to your children the importance of studying and schoolwork, and other families will use the approaches that work best for them.  

In fact, an excellent argument can be made that the children also learn valuable lessons about balancing and managing obligations when they are pulled out of school for vacation but it is yet clear that schooling obligations are still met.

****

So my advice is simply to think it through and decide what approach is going to work best in your situation.  If you do decide to pull the children out of school for vacation, be sure that you work closely with the school district and the teaching staff to ensure that your meet all of the requirements and the appropriate messages about the importance of education are delivered.


----------



## Mosca (Jul 10, 2009)

We took our daughter out of school for vacations until she was in high school. At that point the work was more complicated and there was more of it in a week; if she missed that week she might fail a test. In third grade that isn't going to happen, in 11th it will.


----------



## hibbeln (Jul 10, 2009)

We hit 2nd grade, and that was the point when my oldest son told *ME* that missing a week of school was absolutely not fun (his school did not allow any work to be given in advance).  The week worth of stuff to be made up when we got home was NO FUN and he didn't want to do that anymore.  I listened to him!  
Since then, we stick with the school breaks and maybe take them out a half day early (for long weekend type breaks) or 1-2 days early (like for spring break or something like that if we're going to Europe or someplace far away like that).
Funny thing is, whenever I say "I bought tickets!" the first words out of the kids' mouths are "*Are we going to have to miss any school?!"*


----------



## GadgetRick (Jul 10, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I've merely skimmed most of the stuff in this thread and will address the original subject of the thread.
> 
> We did not take our children out of school for vacations.  We felt that pulling kids out of school did not send the message we wanted to send regarding the importance of education.
> 
> ...


Extremely well said.


----------



## Mel (Jul 10, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify, State Legislatures determine attendance laws.  Teachers, school districts, and school boards have NO control over attendance laws, but they are required by law to enforce them.  If they don't, the penalties are severe.
> 
> Example - Recently, a school Dist. in CA made some mistakes in their scheduling and their minimum days for parent conferences, back to school night, and other activities, were a few minutes too short.  The end result was that they did not have enough minutes to total 180 school days.  The solution seems simple: add a day or 2 to the school year and make up the missing minutes.  But, our state Ed. code, as determined by our State Legislature, states that the too-short minimum days did not count at all, and all the minimum days had to be made up with full school days.  So the students had to attend school an extra day for every minimum day from the whole school year and the Dist. had to extend school into July, or be penalized with a huge funding cut.
> 
> *My point* - if you are unhappy with attendance laws, please contact your elected state representatives.  Teachers, schools, and school boards have no control over attendance laws.



That is a question of the number of days that the school districts must hold classes - that is not the same as attendance laws regarding the number of days an individual student must attend.  While compusory attendance means I must send my children to school, the state does not in fact mandate that a child not be promoted because he missed too many days - promotion is based on the mastery of the curriculum.

OP - if you believe your child will have little trouble keeping up following and absence, and will not cause disruption to the class upon return, you can be assured that missing a few days at a young age should not be a problem.  You know your child, and you know your school - those are the two things to consider.


----------



## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2009)

Mel said:


> That is a question of the number of days that the school districts must hold classes - that is not the same as attendance laws regarding the number of days an individual student must attend.



That's correct.  My point was that the state legislature controls attendance laws, not teachers, administrators, or even school boards.


----------

