# Diamond Questions



## applepie (Jan 21, 2019)

I am soon to be 50.  I am considering long-term options.  Ideally, we would love to have vacation homes in Hawaii, California coast, Sedona, Alder Creek Tract on the way to Tahoe, and be able to take trips elsewhere.  I've been thinking about this for the last 5 years.  Each time we travel someplace, I look at the available rentals, and it just isn't feasible.  I can't find a way to swing it because real estate is so darn expensive.  I was going to wait until the market drops out and then purchase something at that time, but the interest rates will likely be too high to make that workable.  If I were able to do this, the plan would have been to possibly rent the properties out using airbnb or vrbo for much of the year and travel there 2 to 3 weeks a year.  Unfortunately, I am strapped for time, and I don't think I could afford a decent place if I were to buy a second home.  It doesn't seem like a good deal if I can only go for 2 to 3 weeks at most a year.  Cheaper to just rent a hotel room.  We really only have 2 to 3 weeks of vacation anyway.  The only places I could really just easily get away on weekends would be Tahoe or possibly Napa because it is a little over an hour away. 

For the property on the way to Tahoe, we would be there every weekend during the Summer as Tahoe is a little over an hour away from us. 

As a second option, I've been thinking about timeshares.  Dave Ramsey and most of my friends say that they mostly aren't a good deal.  But, I also have some colleagues and family members that are very happy with their timeshares.  They are always going to new and exotic places.  I've talked to them, and most of them have been very happy with their timeshares. 

I have attended multiple timeshare presentations -- HGVC, Diamond, Marriott, etc. over the years. High-level thoughts:

HGVC -- very high buy-in -- $45K for one week in Las Vegas.  I don't recall maintenance fees being very high -- but $45K for one week of vacation was just too high.  We hate Vegas.  And, HGVC didn't have a lot of locations.  I like the flexibility to travel and use Hilton Honors hotels points, but HH points don't take you very far converting your timeshare points.  If I converted the timeshare points for that week, I would get about 3 days of hotels from my research and estimations.  I travel for work with HH, and my points are very low and have never netted me any rewards. I didn't dig into investigation further because I was turned off by the locations and my experience with HH.   

Marriott -- I love Maui Ocean Club.  I do believe Marriott is a premier Timeshare and high quality and great trading value.  The maintenance fees are very high though for one week only.  It's not off the table for me though.  I just might buy a timeshare week at some point in the future.  The cost is fairly high, decent locations, great trading value, and you can resell it.  If I were very affluent, I would consider this.  What I didn't really like when I asked a sales guy last year is the lack of flexibility.  I asked if I could stay at the resort for 10 days instead of just 7 days, and he said they didn't really do that.  Maybe there is some way, but it didn't seem as flexible and seems pretty pricey.  Make no mistake though -- the Marriott is a much nicer place than where we usually stay. 

Diamond Resorts -- the maintenance fees are high.  You can't resell it -- people are giving them away.  So, if you've made a purchase, you need to make it work for you.  What I like about it though -- we love Sedona.  I would love to spend 2 to 3 months there when I retire.  I would consider living there year round when I retired, but Arizona heat is a problem, and we might have very elderly to be near.  We do like living in the foothills in California.  Diamond has many properties in Sedona, and the points fees range from 2,000 a week to 6,500 or so depending on the size of the unit.  It is just 2 of us for the most part, but we'd occasionally travel with 5 to 7 of us (once every 3 to 5 years or so).  We'd be able to stay in Sedona for a few weeks with points purchases.  I also like the discounts of 50% off and the fact that we would likely get 2 to 3 weeks of vacation out of a package, depending where we would stay.  They have a lot of locations.  I like the idea of making a short-term reservation because Southwest has a great deal on flights.  We could go 2 months out and stay for 4 or 5 days for 1500 points.  I have 7,500 points.  The 15,000 points is not off the table for me because I have been looking through the reservation directory and think I could maximize that for 2 to 3 weeks -- possibly more a year, depending how fancy I wanted my Hawaii stay to be. 

I like the idea that I have something paid off that I've used for many years and have enjoyed and that I am only on the hook for maintenance fees.  Then, when I am retired, I can go stay in Sedona for 2 months, go to Hawaii for a week or two, and go to other locations if we'd like -- either through just one resort points ownership or purchasing units for other properties on the resale market.  I did research just buying one week at one resort -- Los Abrigados, but I still have to pay those high maintenance fees.  I did not like the lack of flexibility that offered.  Same with Marriott (though I've been tempted).   

Diamond Owners, what are your thoughts based upon what I said.  What is availability like when booking at Hawaii or Sedona?  I don't care about peak times -- am okay with Mid to High.  Likely won't travel in Low though.


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## awa (Jan 21, 2019)

We are mid40s platinum Diamond owners and although I would call our initial purchase the worst financial mistake of my life, it hasn’t stopped us from maximizing our membership. 

I would say that Sedona availability is fantastic and Tahoe is great. Maui (and other Hawaii) is okay. There’s no problem staying the number of days you want to stay at Diamond managed properties. The affiliates are more strict with the seven day policy. 

In my opinion the hard part is right-sizing the points you need. The benefits increase the more you have, of course, but two full-time workers with 4ish weeks of vacation per year have no business having 50k points per year. If you can do last-minute (60 days for full weeks and 30 days for part weeks) bookings, you can make a smaller number go a long way. But then you don’t get as many unit upgrades and the ability to select specific units. 

I also have a ton of advice for getting to the level you want using resale options, but that’s better for a private conversation. I can also offer you however many bookings you want over the next 15 years or so (once we become friends and I’m not doing anonymous internet rentals  ) to test out the availability at the places and times that come up for you. 

My gut says to tell you to run away, but what you’ve described actually does sound like someone who could be a happy Diamond owner. Depending on how you obtain your initial purchase. My impression is that “happy” Diamond owners didn’t buy all their points from the developer but had their previously owned deeded weeks taken over by Diamond. And I’m not suggesting that all of those people are happy!

I’m willing to check on availability for you if you PM me dates and resorts. 

Good luck!


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## chemteach (Jan 21, 2019)

I completely agree with awa.  I love my Diamond membership.  But that's because I happened into Diamond by accident when they bought out one of my timeshares.  That was about 10 years ago, and for $8400 I became the owner of 30,000 points and had gold status.  Of all my timeshare purchases, that one turned out to be the best because of Diamond's flexibility.  The best way to own Diamond is to buy a few deeded weeks on ebay (I'm also happy to give advice on via pm if you want more info), then go on a presentation to bring those weeks into Diamond.  It isn't free, but it isn't a huge expense.  The maintenance fees will be much lower than owning all the points in the US or Hawaii Collection.  

On Marriott - you can find 2 or 3 bedroom lockout platinum season weeks for less than $3000 at several different resorts, put each side into Interval, and get 2 weeks in a 2 bedroom lockout in many places.  Now that Marriott timeshares have come down (Palm Desert was $8000 to get a red 2 bedroom lockout 8 years ago, now they can be found for $3000.)  You have to be able to plan in advance, put ongoing searches into Marriott, etc., but I have been able to get Kauai, Oahu, Aruba, Boston, Myrtle Beach and Lake Tahoe (ski weeks - don't know if they ever deposit summer weeks) prime season weeks in 2 bedroom lockouts (1 BR in Boston - they don't have 2 BR units there).  (I haven't stayed at all these places, just have been able to see them with my weeks.)  REALLY looking forward to staying at Waiohai over July 4th week this summer on an exchange!  But with exchaning there isn't any flexibility with the number of days you stay.

Diamond is fantastic for Sedona (that's where I had originally purchased my weeks - back when Los Abrigados was ILX). I switched to points so that I could use Diamond for Poipu and Ka'anapali.  I've also used them to go to Lake Tahoe.  Upgrading from a studio to a 1 bedroom is awesome for Lake Tahoe.  You get a week in a 1 bedroom for only 4000 diamond points.  If you have any questions, I'm happy to share!


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## pedro47 (Jan 22, 2019)

$8400 for 30,000 Diamond points that was a super deal. IMHO.


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## tperez (Jan 22, 2019)

We own Diamond (developer and resale acquired) and and are very happy with the ownership and from what you described it sounds like diamond would be a good fit.  We initially purchased when we were working but now are retired and we get a lot of use of our points using pointsavers and deals.  We also used to live in Northern Cal (Sacramento) and from there you have easy access to Lake Tahoe where the rooms are incredibly cheap at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort.  My wife and I spent many 2-3 night trips up there fly fishing, snow shoeing, etc.  We've also spent many weeks at Sedona, which again is easy to get to from California.  Additionally rooms in Las Vegas and Palm Springs are always available and can be reserved pretty cheaply, particularly after you are retired.  So, you can stretch your points pretty easily.  Avila Beach and Capistrano beach are also good options traveling from Northern California although Avila Beach is a little harder to get in to.

What we did is initially purchase from the developer, which allows us to use our points in all the Diamond properties.  Then after we retired we picked up resale points in the U.S. trust for free.  Actually we were paid to take them.  Since we always stay somewhere in the U.S. trust every year (Vegas, Sedona, Tahoe, Santa Fe, etc.) we use resale points for those first and use our developer purchased points for places like Hawaii.

We also own Marriott and Vistana and you are correct in that Marriott is not as flexible and pretty expensive, but they have some fantastic resorts.  Marriott does have a points system similar to Diamond and is now starting to offer discounted rate deals at some resorts though.  Still pretty limited.


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## mjc775 (Jan 22, 2019)

I’m on the other side of the Sierra’s in Reno and turned 50 last year. We’ve been “vacation club” owners for about 5 years - first with Wyndham (for <1 week via the presentation, then resale), and bought 8500 Diamond points on a presentation at LTVR because we were upgraded to Silver due to a 7500 point value given to our Wyndham optional exchange. 

We’ve never been to Sedona, but find LAS, HNL and MCO easy to get to by airplane and have done a few trips to each in the past 5 years. LTVR is an annual August destination as it coincides with time with the kids before school, and our anniversary. 

Over the years I’ve learned that if you don’t book early (often 10-13 months out to the day), we won’t get the reservation. Twice we’ve wanted to book a few months out and there was no availability, yet I was able to book our resort through Expedia. 

Based on my experience I’d suggest buying maybe 1/2 of what you need, then rent through Expedia or https://www.diamondresortsandhotels.com/ when there’s otherwise no availability. Silver level is nice because you get 3 weeks of upgrades- perfect for getting the 1 bedroom for the price of a studio at LTVR. 

A few tips: Maximize your points by avoiding Friday/Saturday nights - we’ve done a few Sunday through Saturday trips. At KBC we got an extra night at the end of our 7-night stay via a one-night Expedia rental - I made sure to tell them about our extra night when we checked in so we wouldn’t have to switch rooms for the last night. Book ASAP - you can always cancel later. Make a spreadsheet of desired travel dates, 1st day available to book, and last day to cancel without penalty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chemteach (Jan 22, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> $8400 for 30,000 Diamond points that was a super deal. IMHO.


I got very lucky in that the units I had purchased were basically free.  I bought them planning to go to Sedona every year.  Within a year, Diamond purchased ILX, so during my first visit on my actual ownership, they offered to put both units into "The Club" if I purchased 4000 points.  It was $8400 for the 4000 points, which turned my deeded units and the purchase into around 31,000 total points in "The Club."  I didn't really understand Diamond's system at the time, and only later realized how much I could do with my points.  It's been a great 10 years of travelling with those points.  I made a few more purchases of deeded weeks later, brought those into Diamond with another points purchase, and now am Platinum.  The difference between gold and platinum isn't that big.  You get a special line to call into, but you are treated the same...  I have really enjoyed Diamond over the years.  The best way to get into Diamond is to buy resale and then purchase points to bring the resale into "The Club."


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## applepie (Jan 22, 2019)

There is a Sedona Summit resale for a 2 bedroom lockout I am looking at.  I can get it for under $3K -- maybe only $1K.  And, the maint fees will be $540 a year.  If I bought this and decided not to move up to 15,000 points, then I could just go stay in Sedona for 2 weeks out of the year if I wanted.  Or, I could put one half of the lockout up for sale?  Or trade it through II?  And then I could buy points later and they might bring it into their points system?  I haven't paid for the other 7,500 points yet to bring me up to silver.  Will they offer me points for $1.99 down the road?  Or will they offer them to me for over $3 a point?  I'm ready for silver but not for gold yet.


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## SmithOp (Jan 22, 2019)

applepie said:


> There is a Sedona Summit resale for a 2 bedroom lockout I am looking at.  I can get it for under $3K -- maybe only $1K.  And, the maint fees will be $540 a year.  If I bought this and decided not to move up to 15,000 points, then I could just go stay in Sedona for 2 weeks out of the year if I wanted.  Or, I could put one half of the lockout up for sale?  Or trade it through II?  And then I could buy points later and they might bring it into their points system?  I haven't paid for the other 7,500 points yet to bring me up to silver.  Will they offer me points for $1.99 down the road?  Or will they offer them to me for over $3 a point?  I'm ready for silver but not for gold yet.



$540 sounds awful low maint fee for a 2br?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## applepie (Jan 22, 2019)

SmithOp said:


> $540 sounds awful low maint fee for a 2br?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


That's what I thought.  I need to find out more information.


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## applepie (Jan 22, 2019)

The listing is wrong.  He said he thought it was probably closer to $2,000 a year for the maintenance.  That makes it not a good deal to me.


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## chemteach (Jan 22, 2019)

I own a 2 bedroom lockout at Sedona Summit every other year.  The maintenance fees are $448 this year.  (I pay maintenance fees every year.)  The yearly fees should be around $900 for the 2 bedroom lockout - regular/non upgraded room.  I think you can probably get this type of unit for free almost free on ebay.  You just have to be patient.

This one sold for a penny a few months ago:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diamond-Se...328007?hash=item4b5322aa87:g:ydUAAOSwMjtb0e-8

It's a 2 bedroom lockout.  Maintenance fees show as $940 per year for an annual use timeshare.


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## pierrepierre (Jan 31, 2019)

You can run your pts/maintenance fees/purchase price thru a financial grinder...but remember "there is no such thing as a free lunch". Hotels only give X amount of space. Parking fees? Cooking facilities? Then consider destination & property taxes - those $$$ have not gone down.  I agree consider amt. of points you need now....then purchase down the road. Over a 10 year span we now have 54,000 pts a year with Diamond. Slow accumulation and now use them more as we age with time off.  Our big concern is Diamond no longer trades pts for car rentals (4-5 yrs now), and the ability to change pts for flts is getting weird and difficult to understand.  Alas, "no one gets out of hear alive"...so do as your heart, mind, and physically able to do!  Happy trails!  (I have 4 trips on books now, and hope to get another booked soon & still work part time - yes, I have been blessed)


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## clifffaith (Jan 31, 2019)

pierrepierre said:


> You can run your pts/maintenance fees/purchase price thru a financial grinder...but remember "there is no such thing as a free lunch". Hotels only give X amount of space. Parking fees? Cooking facilities? Then consider destination & property taxes - those $$$ have not gone down.  I agree consider amt. of points you need now....then purchase down the road. Over a 10 year span we now have 54,000 pts a year with Diamond. Slow accumulation and now use them more as we age with time off.  Our big concern is Diamond no longer trades pts for car rentals (4-5 yrs now), and the ability to change pts for flts is getting weird and difficult to understand.  Alas, "no one gets out of hear alive"...so do as your heart, mind, and physically able to do!  Happy trails!  (I have 4 trips on books now, and hope to get another booked soon & still work part time - yes, I have been blessed)



Per our "informational meeting" on Tuesday, points for rental cars has been reinstated.


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## pierrepierre (Feb 3, 2019)

Thanks for the update!!!!! Last I saw, we could rent cars thru their web-site, which they said at a lower price, but our points did not apply.  However, I have always found more economical cars, not using Diamond preferred companies....and I am doing it same car to same car.  I will check this out!


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## pierrepierre (Feb 4, 2019)

Still cannot book a car with points to pay for it.  Tried just now, and no way...could not use points.


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## cindyc (Feb 6, 2019)

I own a deeded Sedona Summit 2 BD LO EY, Peak Season.  MF for 2019 are $890.  Way less than the equivalent in DRI Points MFs.


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## geist1223 (Feb 7, 2019)

We have never used Points to pay for rental cars, etc. We find it most cost effective to pay cash for these services.


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## applepie (Feb 7, 2019)

From looking at the value you get using points for anything other than accommodations, it doesn't seem like that is the best use of points.  It's nice that they allow somebody to use the points in this manner for those who own way too many points though. 

The gal who tried to sell me 30,000 points told me it would be enough to do 3 weeks of vacations and cover my airfare and rental cars, too.  When I looked up the translation, it looked like it would cover up to 3 weeks, depending where we went, with maybe one flight for two.


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## docjbw (Jun 22, 2019)

awa said:


> We are mid40s platinum Diamond owners and although I would call our initial purchase the worst financial mistake of my life, it hasn’t stopped us from maximizing our membership.
> 
> I would say that Sedona availability is fantastic and Tahoe is great. Maui (and other Hawaii) is okay. There’s no problem staying the number of days you want to stay at Diamond managed properties. The affiliates are more strict with the seven day policy.
> 
> ...


Hello, I am new around here and just happened to luck into this post.  We have heard that you cannot use resale points to upgrade membership.  I would be greatly interested in hearing our thoughts on this.  I tried to figure out how to privately message you but haven't yet.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## geist1223 (Jun 22, 2019)

We are DRI Platinum Members. Resell Points can only be used for Direct Booking in their Collection. Resell Points also do not count toward status. It is possible if you own resell Points and buy new Developer Points to have the resell Points merged into your Account. Then they count.


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## docjbw (Jun 22, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> We are DRI Platinum Members. Resell Points can only be used for Direct Booking in their Collection. Resell Points also do not count toward status. It is possible if you own resell Points and buy new Developer Points to have the resell Points merged into your Account. Then they count.


Thank you for the response.  How difficult is it to do that?  We were just at Ka'anapali Beach Club and they wanted to sell us more points for $137,000.  Needless to say, we do not want to pay that ridiculous amount.  I have seen DRI points in the Hawaiian collection for resale very cheap.  It makes more sense to us to buy resale points then buy the minimum through DRI in order to incorporate them into our account.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 22, 2019)

Normally I think they require you to purchase half as many as you want to bring in.  So if you have 10,000 points resale, you would have to purchase 5,000 retail to bring the points into the club.


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## docjbw (Jun 22, 2019)

Anyone that has actually been through the process I would gladly talk to.  We feel we are now at the crossroads of whether to go all in or walk away.
I also greatly appreciate anyone's input regarding the matter.


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## geist1223 (Jun 22, 2019)

How many Points at what Cost per Point were you discussing? For $137,000 I assume you were looking at buying somewhere between 45,000 Points and 50,000 Points.

We actually own only 18,500 DRI Points in the Hawaiian Collection. But because of Club Select/Club Combination involving our Worldmark Points we are Platinum. We have the ability (but not required) to use our Worldmark Points to get an additional 32,000 DRI Points each year. But even when we do not do this trade of Worldmark for DRI (we seldom do) we get credit for as if we had.

There are many people that own Deeded weeks at Resorts from before DRI acquired the Resort or the System. Or they acquire these Deeded weeks through resell. They are not truly DRI Members. But DRI has created a program for them in which they can do an internal trade and trade their week(s) for a week(s) at another DRI Resort. So let's say you own a Deed for a 2 Bedroom at Point at Poipu. But you want to go to Mexico. You might be able to trade for one year and go to Cabo Azul. I do not know the fine points of this progrqm.


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## docjbw (Jun 23, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> How many Points at what Cost per Point were you discussing? For $137,000 I assume you were looking at buying somewhere between 45,000 Points and 50,000 Points.
> 
> We actually own only 18,500 DRI Points in the Hawaiian Collection. But because of Club Select/Club Combination involving our Worldmark Points we are Platinum. We have the ability (but not required) to use our Worldmark Points to get an additional 32,000 DRI Points each year. But even when we do not do this trade of Worldmark for DRI (we seldom do) we get credit for as if we had.
> 
> There are many people that own Deeded weeks at Resorts from before DRI acquired the Resort or the System. Or they acquire these Deeded weeks through resell. They are not truly DRI Members. But DRI has created a program for them in which they can do an internal trade and trade their week(s) for a week(s) at another DRI Resort. So let's say you own a Deed for a 2 Bedroom at Point at Poipu. But you want to go to Mexico. You might be able to trade for one year and go to Cabo Azul. I do not know the fine points of this progrqm.



Ha!  Nope!  That was for 11,500 points, which is their minimum to buy into the Hawaii collection.  I think it came out to $11.80 (or something close) a point.  That is why we are looking to buy resale points instead.  Needless to say I laughed at the salesperson when they wrote that sum out on the paper.


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## pedro47 (Jun 23, 2019)

To docjbw..Good for you. LOL.


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## geist1223 (Jun 23, 2019)

We have bought in to the DRI Hawaiian Collection twice. Once 7,500 Points at Point at Poipu about 4 years ago. Once 8,500 Points at KBC about 10 months ago. The price per Point we paid was substantially less than what you were quoted. In fact we paid less at per Point at KBC then we paid at Point at Poipu. When we were at the Modern Honolulu in January the price per Point that we were quoted was substantially less.

If you are interested only in the Hawaiian Club there are Accounts for sale on the Market Place of TUG. Remember resell Hawaiian Club DRI Points can only be used to Book into the Hawaiian Collection. This does exclude all the Affiliates. So you are left with about 5 Resorts, of which only 3 are in Hawaii.


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