# Still hard and pushy at presentations



## Liz Wolf-Spada (May 13, 2011)

We were told on checking in with the concierge at Wyndham Canterbury that if we went to their breakfast (not much of a breakfast!) they would answer my questions about RCI TPU's and it wouldn't be more than 60 minutes. So, I'm still exhausted from the graduation activities and am a little groggy, but the rep insists we commit to 90 minutes so she can do her speal. Basically, they just lied to get us there. Then, I was interested in learning about RCI, but I didn't want any more anything. Turns out that we were supposed to have signed off on some offer 5 years ago and didn't, because it was sent to the wrong address. So the manager now goes to see if we can still do something called Pic1 or Pic2 or whatever. Yes, but it will cost us $13,000 to add 77,000 points and include one of our 2 bedroom weeks into their system. I kept saying "No" and she kept not hearing us. We were finally let go with our $75 American Express card, and yes, more information, but it was definitely hard sell and I wouldn't recommend it.
Liz


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## glypnirsgirl (May 13, 2011)

Crummy! 

When we recently stayed at Bonnet Creek. Every day we got a call asking us to come to hear about what they were offering. Each day I told the woman that it did not matter what they offered us, it was not worth the time away from our vacation and we had heard that Wyndham was really hard sell and we did not want to put ourselves through it. I was pretty nice the first 4 days. On Day 5, i picked up the phone and when she identified herself, I said,
"No means no." And then hung up. The next day, Ian picked up the phone and got sucked into a long involved conversation with her about why we were not interested in hearing about the resort. Told her point blank that we did not like it well enough to stay there, let alone to own there. She told him that the program was good even if we didn't like the resort. I figure if they are that "hard" on the phone, it must be miserable in person.

Sorry for the loss of your time.

elaine


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## DeniseM (May 13, 2011)

We always unplug the phone in the unit - our family and friends will call our cell phones anyway.  We simply don't want to argue with people on vacation.  

At one of our resorts, they hand you a reservation for an owners update when you check in.  We write "no thank you" on it, sign it and hand it back.  For some reason, when it's in writing, they don't continue to bother us after that.


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## glypnirsgirl (May 13, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> We always unplug the phone in the unit - our family and friends will call our cell phones anyway.  We simply don't want to argue with people on vacation.
> 
> At one of our resorts, they hand you a reservation for an owners update when you check in.  We write "no thank" you on it, sign it and hand it back.  For some reason, when it's in writing, they don't continue to bother us after that.



What great ideas. I will try this next time.

elaine


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## rickandcindy23 (May 13, 2011)

It's always a good idea to unplug the phone, as soon as you walk into a resort in active sales.  

We had a guest at Bonnet Creek who went to the desk to get her parking pass, and they tried to sign her up for a breakfast and update.  She told them no once, then twice, then a third time, so they told her they would mark her room as having zero access to the pools, mini-golf, the computer area, and everything else.  She would be blocked from all amenities.  

We stopped by Bonnet Creek last week, the day after she was told this nonsense, and the sales manager was shocked, or maybe she just acted shocked by the statement.  I was so unhappy with Wyndham's treatment of our GUEST.  Wyndham apparently has no faith in their own product.  It is obviously so awful you have to hard-sell it and treat people badly, if they don't come to the meeting.  Wyndham needs to re-think their sales strategy, because posts like these on this thread are going to continue to hurt their reputation.  Not that THEY CARE!


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## mrfred (May 14, 2011)

my family has apparently been put on Wyndham's sh*t-list.  We own at Seawatch and use it most years, and also do several 2/3 day stays in Williamsburg.  

Every time in w'burg, they invite us for the free breakfast and 'update.'  they food's decent, and the first couple times, I actually have to explain the Wyndham system to the salesdrone.  then explaining that we bought resale, VIP has no value for us, etc.

the last time, they put us, and only us, in a different room than where the rest of the visitors ate.  and the salesdrone came to us to talk (not taking us into the room with all the visitors they're trying to sell to,) already knows that we bought resale, and just says Hi, makes a faint attempt to sell something, doesn't try hard, then gets us our bribe and we're done.

guess they don't want the marks to hear us talk out loud about buying resale.


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## Explorer7 (May 14, 2011)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> We were told on checking in with the concierge at Wyndham Canterbury that if we went to their breakfast (not much of a breakfast!) they would answer my questions about RCI TPU's and it wouldn't be more than 60 minutes. So, I'm still exhausted from the graduation activities and am a little groggy, but the rep insists we commit to 90 minutes so she can do her speal. Basically, they just lied to get us there. Then, I was interested in learning about RCI, but I didn't want any more anything. Turns out that we were supposed to have signed off on some offer 5 years ago and didn't, because it was sent to the wrong address. So the manager now goes to see if we can still do something called Pic1 or Pic2 or whatever. Yes, but it will cost us $13,000 to add 77,000 points and include one of our 2 bedroom weeks into their system. I kept saying "No" and she kept not hearing us. We were finally let go with our $75 American Express card, and yes, more information, but it was definitely hard sell and I wouldn't recommend it.
> Liz




I have learned that the presentation will not end at the designated window of time unless I actually stand up and begin walking over to the checkout desk. 

I have had them following me all the way to the desk trying to keep me engaged but I keep it moving and verify with the receptionist that I have either been credited to my time if pre-gifted or get gifted on the spot.

Ref RCI education at Atlantic City Skyline towers recently the salesman was actually trying to educate me about making 28K deposits in RCI. I told him multiple times that his training was out of date and that he needed to read up on his own product. 

We he stepped away at the 30 min mark to get his manager, (usually the expert closer) my DW and I walked over to the reception desk and checked out verifying with her that we were credited for attending and completing a brief survey.

This was the shorted owner update except for one at National Harbor a little earlier this year which ended in about 45 min with the salesman and his manager almost holding me by the ankle while DW and I stood up and walked away to the reception desk and checked out.

You literally have to be a little rude and not wait for them to release you from the hard sell, they won't do it until you emotionally or financially pay more than you bargained for.


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## bnoble (May 14, 2011)

> Still hard and pushy at presentations


Interesting.  I'm still not going to them.


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## JimMIA (May 14, 2011)

We're off to Bonnet Creek tomorrow, and unplugging the phone will be the first thing I do when we get in the room.


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## am1 (May 14, 2011)

Its the price you pay for the free gift.  Someone people pay the price of buying something they do not understand.


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## Twinkstarr (May 14, 2011)

First thing we learned about Wyndham before we bought was unplug the phone in the room!

I guess it helps having a DH who's 6'4" go get the parking pass. He says it only takes one "no". Kids say he puts his "mean face" on too, so that helps.


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## shorts (May 14, 2011)

Our last stay was in Branson. We had not been in the room for more than 10 minutes before they called wanting to come to the room to see if everything was ok and to give us a free coupon book of savings. We haven't been offered a "gift" for attending anything for our last 2 or 3 stays.

I figured why not get it over with and invited him up. I answered most of his questions in a way that left him no where to go to get us to another meeting with a sales rep. He was out the door in 15 minutes and we weren't bothered for the rest of the week.


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## DeniseM (May 14, 2011)

We have come to the conclusion that there is no offer that is worth wasting a single second of our precious vacation time, or the irritation of listening to a blathering sales weasel.  There is nothing that will induce us to attend a sale presentation any more - nothing.


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## Kozman (May 14, 2011)

Disconnect your phone and never allow them to come to your room with a 'free' gift!  Unless of course you want to be solicited by them.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (May 14, 2011)

We didn't have other plans, and I was too tired to think straight. Mostly I did have some RCI questions which I am sure are answered here on Tug in the many pages on the new system. Bad choice, except that I do now know something about Wyndham.
Liz


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## Lardan (May 14, 2011)

Since I been coming here I have read numerous comments regarding Wyndham's pressure to convince people to listen their sales pitch.  When one reads these it appears owners (myself included) know this is going to happen and expect it. Doesn't mean we like it, just know how they do.

For guests occupying a friend's unit or renters I would think this would really turn people off from Wyndham.  I know nothing about this on the world of sales, but I would think it would do more damage to their reputation than good.

I would really like someone who is in the marketing field or direct sales to comment on this.


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## JimMIA (May 14, 2011)

Lardan said:


> For guests occupying a friend's unit or renters I would think this would really turn people off from Wyndham.  I know nothing about this on the world of sales, but I would think it would do more damage to their reputation than good.


I think you're right, but I don't think the timeshare sales people care.  I think the salesman's attitude is they have one shot.  They succeed and get paid; or they fail and don't get paid.  Nothing else matters.

Wyndham could obviously stop the rude, pressure-packed, lying behavior if they wanted to.  They don't...because it produces sales.


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## ronparise (May 14, 2011)

Lardin

I have been in sales or advertising of one sort or another since 1957 when I was selling home delivery service for the Washington Post.

I can tell you, that based on my 50 years of experience, that a sales force keeps doing what its doing for only one reason...it works


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## Lardan (May 14, 2011)

I have no doubt your right  it must work. But, I wonder how many future sales are lost due to these tactics.  This would only be of a concern to the corporation, not the individual sales force.  To me it is just another way to downgrade people's thinking regarding timeshares, and particularly this company.


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## JimMIA (May 14, 2011)

I think you have to remember that most people who buy any timeshare directly from the developer don't know much about timeshares anyway.  They're not likely to have any idea of the reputation of the sales force.  

And in the case of Wyndham, Hilton, Marriott, Disney and the other big names in the industry, the uninformed purchaser is going to rely on the _perceived_ reputation of the parent company, which often overcomes whatever information they may have about the timeshare industry.   Some companies are more reputable and ethical than others.

Bottom line though -- executives will give lip service to ethical behavior, but salesmen who don't sell will be terminated.


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## Lardan (May 14, 2011)

I've been an owner with Marriott for approximately eleven years. On the 1st or 2nd day they phone about attending one of their presentations.  I don't ever remember actually taking the call, we're out of the unit. They leave a message and that is the end of it. Possibly others have not been this lucky. I don't know about other companies personally, but I have been told Sheraton is not as pushy as Wyndham.

I agree with what is said about the inexperienced people going to the presentations and usually they are the buyers.  However, that certainly doesn't equate to them not reconizing a sales staff that is too pushy and relentless in pursuit of the sale.

On-site sales staff has very little to none making a sale after people leave the location.  Possibly this turns me off more than others, but I just can't help to think this hurts their corporate image to pursue people as strong as they do.  Apparently I'm wrong because they continue to do this, and apparently the corporation supports the pursuit of this nature.


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## e.bram (May 14, 2011)

I try to act like rube, but they catch on to me pretty soon.
             A. Moocher


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## shagnut (May 14, 2011)

I have learned my lesson and hopefully they have learned theirs. (Yeah , right) When I was in MB I went because it was raining and I didn't have anything better to do. Mistake. They wanted to check my credt report  and I told them NO. They checked it anyway (wanting me to get an RCI card) and I hit the roof. I had to pick up my daughter as she was stuck in the lobby across the street and it was pouring down rain.  They suggested I pick her up and come back . I swear I almost slugged him. I got loud and they got me out of there. 

This time I've got an out, mainly because I'm not going but what would they say when I said I paid zilch for 510K eoy points. (Thanks again Rich) 

I have wanted Wyndham for eons simply because they have many units within driving distance and they have places in areas I want to go. Just avoid the salespeople.  shaggy


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## pkyorkbeach (May 16, 2011)

Pushy...I am learning a lot about the pushy sales tactics on TUG.. 

Last year when I went to Star Island as a guest of an owner. They brought me over to get a parking tag which was odd because I thought the women at the  front desk put it in my folder. Anyway, I went to the desk they asked me to write my name and who I was with-I put my name and grams name . They asked if I was married?-I said Yes. They said is your husband here? When I said no they did not want to speak to me about owning a TS.... I was lucky.  I was informed there was an owner update and that I should attend.  No I did not....


   .


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## vacationhopeful (May 16, 2011)

pkyorkbeach said:


> ...Last year when I went to Star Island as a guest of an owner. They brought me over to get a parking tag which was odd because I thought the women at the  front desk put it in my folder. ...
> .



Yes, they did as Star Island is NOT managed by Wyndham. Other than the SALES "hangtag" desk and the building for Owner's Update, none of the people at that resort have anything to do with Wyndham.

When I pass thru the lobby area there, it is amazing how fast I can tell who the Wyndham (VIP mainly) are. The front desk should have a audio button that says "You will need to call Wyndham about that".  (Usually about unit upgrades or unit locations).


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## Twinkstarr (May 16, 2011)

Lardan said:


> I've been an owner with Marriott for approximately eleven years. On the 1st or 2nd day they phone about attending one of their presentations.  I don't ever remember actually taking the call, we're out of the unit. They leave a message and that is the end of it. Possibly others have not been this lucky. I don't know about other companies personally, but I have been told Sheraton is not as pushy as Wyndham.
> 
> I agree with what is said about the inexperienced people going to the presentations and usually they are the buyers.  However, that certainly doesn't equate to them not reconizing a sales staff that is too pushy and relentless in pursuit of the sale.
> 
> On-site sales staff has very little to none making a sale after people leave the location.  Possibly this turns me off more than others, but I just can't help to think this hurts their corporate image to pursue people as strong as they do.  Apparently I'm wrong because they continue to do this, and apparently the corporation supports the pursuit of this nature.



The worse harrasment I had about attending an owner's update was at Sheraton Broadway Plantation! Took forever to get the parking pass(didn't I want to see the plans of the new resort in Avon, CO, I would surely want to buy another ski week if I saw them) and at least 2 calls before I unplugged the phone. Never thought I would need to do that at a *wood resort.

Though we've never had that at our own *wood resort or during our stay at Westin Princeville. 

 It was everything I heard about the pushy Wyndham sales people. 

Never heard a peep when we stayed at Marriott's Summit Watch, just a card slid under the door.


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## e.bram (May 16, 2011)

For me, the pushier the better. Makes me feel less guilty when I take the freebie and don't buy.


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## vacationhopeful (May 16, 2011)

e.bram said:


> For me, the pushier the better. Makes me feel less guilty when I take the freebie and don't buy.



e.bram ... what words of wisdom for me to remember!  Except I swore after the last trashing and whipping at an Owner's Update, I am better off to just sleep in with the phone unplugged. 

Definitely, one of your better quotes.


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## puppymommo (May 16, 2011)

pkyorkbeach said:


> They asked if I was married?-I said Yes. They said is your husband here? When I said no they did not want to speak to me about owning a TS.... I was lucky.     .



Yes, this is a good strategy for avoiding owner updates/sales presentations...travel separately.  Won't work if you are single or actually enjoy traveling with your spouse!

I will be staying at Wyndham Canterbury (SF) this summer with DD and my sister.  I'm looking forward to not being bugged about attending.


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## vacationhopeful (May 16, 2011)

puppymommo said:


> Yes, this is a good strategy for avoiding owner updates/sales presentations...travel separately....



_In what rule book does it say we have to be truthful to the sales weasals?_
No, my husband is not here as this is my boy-toy's trip. He has no income other than what I give him. Is the pool area topless or should I just stay on the balcony?


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## Lardan (May 18, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> _In what rule book does it say we have to be truthful to the sales weasals?_
> No, my husband is not here as this is my boy-toy's trip. He has no income other than what I give him. Is the pool area topless or should I just stay on the balcony?



I would just love to be there to see the look on their faces and what they would say to this.


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## Joan-OH (May 18, 2011)

shagnut said:


> They wanted to check my credit report  and I told them NO. They checked it anyway (wanting me to get an RCI card) and I hit the roof.  shaggy



Just curious, was hitting the roof the extent of your reaction or did you take it further?  I don't know what I would have done, but that would infuriate me no end and I would do everything in my power to make them pay for infringing on my credit score by checking my credit.

Joan-OOH


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## Joan-OH (May 19, 2011)

We were at LaCascada last week, where Linda at Owner's services "ran out" of wristbands for the shuttle and made an appointment with my husband to bring them up to the room the next day.

They woke us up @ 8:05am and called 2 more times before 9am.  I made my husband call to tell them we did not want them in our room and that we would come down and get the wristbands.  Linda told him he could not have them.

Ten minutes later I was at the owners service desk with "that" look on my face that made Linda hide in the back room when I told Joe who I was and I got my wristbands.  

We were called at least a dozen times while we were in the room and for the most part we did not answer but the times we did we told Linda, Mario & Joe they could not come to our room.

Last day there, after walking for miles and miles in the morning, I took an afternoon nap.  The phone rang and I picked it up and set it back on the receiver.  60 seconds later, the same thing.  15 minutes later, Joe was at our door trying to get into the room.  I heard My husband talking in the front room, but thought he was on the phone.  Joe is mighty lucky I didn't know he was at our door waking me up again or I would have charged him and started screaming - and I'm one that runs from confrontation every chance I get.  That's how mad I was that they dared try to get into our room after being repeatedly told we would not let them in.

Lesson learned.  We've always unplugged the phone, but for some reason didn't this time.

I did complain when I got my email survey and there was no response from anyone at Wyndham.

Still, they are increasingly disrespectful of owners.

Joan-OH


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## am1 (May 19, 2011)

File harassment charges with the local police.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 19, 2011)

am1 said:


> File harassment charges with the local police.


This is a great idea.  I would consider it myself.  It is harassment, and that is a crime.  Never thought of it.  Thanks for the idea! 

Wyndham is LOW CLASS, to keep bugging people like that.  I have never had Westin ask us a single time after telling them no, and that includes Vistana.  Hilton is good about leaving you alone, as is Diamond (we stayed at Grand Beach last year). 

Marriott in Orlando is AWFUL.  They will call you every day.  From now on, I will tell them, after the third call, I will call the police and file harassment charges, if they wake me up another morning.  We got calls early, and we are two hours behind Eastern Time.


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## rrlongwell (May 19, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This is a great idea.



Another way is to put their sales pitches/attempts on line.  I do not think they appriciate that very much.  It is educational to see what tactics are being employed and what sales pitches are being made.  Wyndham is apparently going through many changes and after their downsizing of the sales staff a year or two ago.  The direction the indivual resorts are going is presumably of interest to a wide group of owners at the various resorts.


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