# Stinkin' Shell Vacation Club maintenance fee lies



## rickandcindy23 (Dec 8, 2015)

Our fees for the West Club are up 8.7% over last year's which is a huge increase.   Shell used to bill a certain amount for the first 1,350 points ($330.41 for the first 1,350 owned) + .1975 per point for additional points + $165 club fee.  

Now they are charging a flat fee:

_Your Board of Directors has recently approved the 2016 budget with a cost per point of  .2178, resulting in an average overall increase of 3.62% on an average points package of 5,023 points.  There is also the $171 club fee
_
This actually is a huge increase when a person owns a lot more points than the measly 5,023 points.  

If you just own 1,350 points, wow did your point cost go down.  SUCKS to own Shell.


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## presley (Dec 9, 2015)

Maybe it's part of their master plan to get everyone to convert to Wyndham points. At the update at Vino Bello, they basically said that Shell was a worthless product and that we really needed to convert to Wyndham to open doors to many more options. It made me think they only bought Shell to fold it into their other program, even though that could take decades.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 9, 2015)

They will gut the system of Shell owners .. folding the ownerships into CWA (MY BET).


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## comicbookman (Dec 9, 2015)

presley said:


> Maybe it's part of their master plan to get everyone to convert to Wyndham points. At the update at Vino Bello, they basically said that Shell was a worthless product and that we really needed to convert to Wyndham to open doors to many more options. It made me think they only bought Shell to fold it into their other program, even though that could take decades.



It is highly likely that the goal is to fold Shell into the Wyndham program.  That was the stated intent when they bought trendwest (now Worldmark)  They couldn't work that one out, but Shell is a much smaller system.  It is much more efficient for Wyndham to have one system.  That may not be in the owners best interest, but it definitely is in Wyndham's.


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## Beefnot (Dec 9, 2015)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our fees for the West Club are up 8.7% over last year's which is a huge increase. Shell used to bill a certain amount for the first 1,350 points ($330.41 for the first 1,350 owned) + .1975 per point for additional points + $165 club fee.
> 
> Now they are charging a flat fee:
> 
> ...


 
You don't want to know how much my increase was.  Those stinkin' Shell bastards.


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## presley (Dec 9, 2015)

I didn't get my bill, yet, but using the figures in the first post, it looks like I will pay about the same as 2 years ago. I have 5,000 points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 9, 2015)

I am listing our points with a resale agent on Kauai in April.  As long as it costs me nothing out of my pocket, I am selling. 

There is a lack of Shell on eBay.  Gee, I wonder why?


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## presley (Dec 9, 2015)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I am listing our points with a resale agent on Kauai in April.  As long as it costs me nothing out of my pocket, I am selling.
> 
> There is a lack of Shell on eBay.  Gee, I wonder why?



Mine's back in the marketplace. I'll keep using it (mostly for II trades) until someone else wants it. I'm in no major hurry, but wouldn't mind if it was gone after my next exchange in January. I'll probably post another bargain deals post in a few months.


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## kelm (Dec 9, 2015)

Maybe they will have a program to take the points back. Or wishful thinking.


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## presley (Dec 9, 2015)

kelm said:


> Maybe they will have a program to take the points back. Or wishful thinking.



That may be on the horizon. They have that for Wyndham and now for Worldmark (they pay you for it). I did get a survey a few months ago about them maybe offering that in the future for Shell. However, for Shell, it didn't sound like they would offer any money for the turned in contracts.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 9, 2015)

Maybe Shell is offering that now because the resellers aren't selling them on eBay anymore.

I would love to get rid of mine but not willing to pay a dime to do it.  I will keep doing what I am doing. 

We own 25,300 points and stay at Peacock and San Francisco.  I have three kids who love Napa too.  So we do use our points, it just ain't cheap.

I was looking at summer in Wisconsin's Door County and saw the bulk bank for Shell's resort there, Little Sweden.  I would love to exchange into that resort for much less than .24 per point, which is what my cost is now.  Used to be under .20 per point.  That was a few years ago.  This changes my opinion about Shell.  I cannot imagine paying $2,400 for a stay in Door County two bedrooms, if I can stay there via exchange in summer.  So disappointing to me!


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## alexadeparis (Dec 9, 2015)

If Shell goes to RCI that will be the final straw. I would hope they will implement a deed back program and offer us a way out. I loved Shell points in II, I simply do NOT need or want any more RCI units.


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## CO skier (Dec 9, 2015)

alexadeparis said:


> If Shell goes to RCI that will be the final straw. I would hope they will implement a deed back program and offer us a way out. I loved Shell points in II, I simply do NOT need or want any more RCI units.



With WorldMark, members can choose if they want to set up an Interval International account or a RCI account (even if they purchase after WorldMark converted to RCI for developer purchases), since WorldMark was associated with II before RCI.

I would think the same would occur with Shell, if Shell goes to RCI.


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## WinniWoman (Dec 10, 2015)

Our maintenance fees at Smugglers Notch (I am non- Wyndham weeks owner there) just went up 7% mainly due to minimum wage of 10% in the last 2 years in VT and and health benefit increases for the staff (housekeeping, etc,). 

After reviewing the budget documents, I sent an email to our board asking why the fees only increased on the 2 and 3 bedroom units and went down on the one bedroom units. Doesn't make sense. I do listen in on the HOA board meetings for our building, but I must have missed this somehow.

Our resort is a mix of Wyndham, RCI points and weeks owners. 

In addition, due to owner internet rentals competing with the resorts retail business and rental programs for the larger time owner-ships (like quarter share owners, etc), and also other owners not being able to sell their timeshares, the resort just came up with this convoluted plan/rules for how owners must rent their units out and how/what renters must purchase in terms of benefits packages for the resort's amenities. No talk of any deed backs, although there most certainly are some foreclosures and our HOA at least is working to get those deeds back so they can offer them for sale to existing owners, etc.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 10, 2015)

CO skier said:


> With WorldMark, members can choose if they want to set up an Interval International account or a RCI account (even if they purchase after WorldMark converted to RCI for developer purchases), since WorldMark was associated with II before RCI.
> 
> I would think the same would occur with Shell, if Shell goes to RCI.



Shell was originally with RCI and when they went to II there was no option to stay with RCI (with the exception of deeded non points owners at the shell resorts).


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## richardm (Dec 11, 2015)

*It's all about in-house sales to existing owners*



presley said:


> Maybe it's part of their master plan to get everyone to convert to Wyndham points. At the update at Vino Bello, they basically said that Shell was a worthless product and that we really needed to convert to Wyndham to open doors to many more options. It made me think they only bought Shell to fold it into their other program, even though that could take decades.



Developer sales are now focused primarily on selling product to existing owners. By taking over existing properties, it basically "reloads" the sales force with new prospects to target. For point based systems, it's a very easy "conversion".. 

Upon takeover, maintenance fees are increased to bring the newly acquired resorts "up to standard".  In-house sales then offers the CWA product as a viable upgrade with lower maintenance fees and more resort choices. As existing Shell contracts convert, those "trade ins" are then folded into future CWA inventory.

It's a very smart system to create new sales numbers and also recycle resort inventory into a product that is much easier for the developer to handle. Hopefully, in the long term it will also benefit those acquired resort regimes by stabilizing their future budgets.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 11, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> They will gut the system of Shell owners .. folding the ownerships into CWA (MY BET).





richardm said:


> Developer sales are now focused primarily on selling product to existing owners. By taking over existing properties, it basically "reloads" the sales force with new prospects to target. For point based systems, it's a very easy "conversion"..
> 
> Upon takeover, maintenance fees are increased to bring the newly acquired resorts "up to standard".  In-house sales then offers the CWA product as a viable upgrade with lower maintenance fees and more resort choices. As existing Shell contracts convert, those "trade ins" are then folded into future CWA inventory.
> 
> It's a very smart system to create new sales numbers and also recycle resort inventory into a product that is much easier for the developer to handle. Hopefully, in the long term it will also benefit those acquired resort regimes by stabilizing their future budgets.



So my $1 Shell Vacation Club set of points will yield me CWA points in my VIP account? 

While I may NOT like the recent MF increases with my Shell points ... until I lose my club advantage in the Shell booking windows ... I will just continue to be a Shell member. But dropping II may cause me to re-run the numbers.

Have a Shell stay booked in San Diego in March ... another family get-together for a wedding.


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2015)

richardm said:


> Developer sales are now focused primarily on selling product to existing owners. By taking over existing properties, it basically "reloads" the sales force with new prospects to target. For point based systems, it's a very easy "conversion"..
> 
> Upon takeover, maintenance fees are increased to bring the newly acquired resorts "up to standard".  In-house sales then offers the CWA product as a viable upgrade with lower maintenance fees and more resort choices. As existing Shell contracts convert, those "trade ins" are then folded into future CWA inventory.
> 
> It's a very smart system to create new sales numbers and also recycle resort inventory into a product that is much easier for the developer to handle. Hopefully, in the long term it will also benefit those acquired resort regimes by stabilizing their future budgets.



Richard

Are you saying Wyndham is taking shell inventory and putting it into Wyndham's CWA?


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2015)

A 1 bedroom at vino bello (if there was any inventory) costs a club Wyndham owner 182000 points.

What's the cost to a shell owner(in shell points)


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## raygo123 (Dec 11, 2015)

I was told that it is easier for a Wyndham owners to book into. Shell than shell owners.  This was said buy the sales manager at a presentation so take it for what it's worth.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Ty1on (Dec 11, 2015)

raygo123 said:


> I was told that it is easier for a Wyndham owners to book into. She'll than shell owners.  This was said buy the sales manager at a presentation so take it for what it's worth.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



It's worth what you think it's worth.


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## raygo123 (Dec 11, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> It's worth what you think it's worth.


Is that an "ah grasshopper take the stone from my hand" moment?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 11, 2015)

I have Shell points - West Club. I have had NO PROBLEMS using my Shell points to book ... and it is better as the availability is much further out than when the Wyndham inventory at those resorts appears.

It is really "funny" the one Shell resort where I have stayed over several years, wondered how I also had a reservation via the Wyndham system...:hysterical: Never thought I was also a Wyndham owner ... but they kept my multiple reservations in the same building group (as I had been there before Wyndham had brought Shell).


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## presley (Dec 11, 2015)

ronparise said:


> A 1 bedroom at vino bello (if there was any inventory) costs a club Wyndham owner 182000 points.
> 
> What's the cost to a shell owner(in shell points)


Depending on season, it runs from 4400 to 5800 Shell points. 


raygo123 said:


> I was told that it is easier for a Wyndham owners to book into. Shell than shell owners.  This was said buy the sales manager at a presentation so take it for what it's worth.



I don't own Wyndham, so I can't say if it is easier/harder, but I can say that is is extremely easy to book Shell within Shell. It's a very rare occasion that I can't find dates and in those cases, it is very close to check in.


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## ronparise (Dec 11, 2015)

presley said:


> Depending on season, it runs from 4400 to 5800 Shell points.
> 
> 
> I don't own Wyndham, so I can't say if it is easier/harder, but I can say that is is extremely easy to book Shell within Shell. It's a very rare occasion that I can't find dates and in those cases, it is very close to check in.



thanks.  

so at 22 cents a point mf a shell owner will pay $1276 for the most expensive season, and a Wyndham owner (if they can find the availability)  at $6/1000 points pays a little less... 

Just from this one example it looks like Wyndham wants to manage shell and Club Wyndham resorts to the same standards..

So what are you guys thinking.. Wyndham will retire all the outstanding Shell points and issue owners Club Wyndham Access points  at about a 31 to 1  ratio (in my example 182000 wyndham points for 5800 shell points).


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## team2win (Dec 14, 2015)

*don't you mean Wyndham *

You do mean Wyndham, Shell wasn't like this. When Wyndham purchased Shell, I was afraid this would happen.. Here we are....



rickandcindy23 said:


> Our fees for the West Club are up 8.7% over last year's which is a huge increase.   Shell used to bill a certain amount for the first 1,350 points ($330.41 for the first 1,350 owned) + .1975 per point for additional points + $165 club fee.
> 
> Now they are charging a flat fee:
> 
> ...


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## Rumpled (Dec 17, 2015)

ronparise said:


> thanks.
> 
> so at 22 cents a point mf a shell owner will pay $1276 for the most expensive season, and a Wyndham owner (if they can find the availability)  at $6/1000 points pays a little less...
> 
> ...



We have 8500 points and so ours went up 6%.
That week at Vino Bello would cost us $1380 at our net cost of $0.2379 per point.  Most people are probably paying more like $0.24 to $0.29 per point depending upon how many points they have.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 28, 2015)

We don't know what is going to happen between Wyndham and Shell, but I can tell you as a Wyndham Platinum member, I don't think they want me to have another Platinum membership in Wyndham.  I can just see the greedy salesperson's eyes when I tell him/her that we have not one--but two Wyndham Platinum accounts and would love a third, if they will let me!  Of course they won't.

I will be listing my weeks in Hawaii with a resale company there.  Kauai salespeople can try to sell those for their commission and the transfer fees.  I won't be getting a dime, but I won't pay a dime either.


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## team2win (Dec 31, 2015)

*Wyndham point cost b.s.*

I just started looking at the 2016mf bills and holy smokes, they have totally changed the way the maintenance fees are calculated. It's out of line all the way, .22 - .26 cents per point depending on the club. I can't believe it, tell me its a mistake and that they can't just change point calculations overnight. YIKES!!!! B.S.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 16, 2016)

team2win said:


> I just started looking at the 2016mf bills and holy smokes, they have totally changed the way the maintenance fees are calculated. It's out of line all the way, .22 - .26 cents per point depending on the club. I can't believe it, tell me its a mistake and that they can't just change point calculations overnight. YIKES!!!! B.S.



It's all very distressing.  We own 25,300 points in the West Club.  I told Rick we need to list them with a broker and see if we can get those sold.  I don't care about making money at all.  

In my opinion Worldmark is a great product that has not been affected much at all by Wyndham, and I am glad to own resale Worldmark for that reason, but Shell's takeover by Wyndham is a disaster to all Shell owners because they just keep increasing our costs of ownership.  

Our housekeeping fees are up; our transaction fees are not transparent (I have no idea when they give me my free fee because I never see any transaction showing as "Free"); and Wyndham is taking away II next year.  

Wyndham's takeover of Shell is definitely a hostile one.  Owners cannot be happy with the way Wyndham determined fees this year.  Mine are .22 per point, and we own in the cheaper club.  I am a bit angry, but I did really love my exchanges in II.  I plan to book several exchanges for 2017 while I can.


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## blr666 (Feb 29, 2016)

So Shell is going back to RCI in 2018?


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## blr666 (Feb 29, 2016)

I meant 2017


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## presley (Feb 29, 2016)

blr666 said:


> So Shell is going back to RCI in 2018?





blr666 said:


> I meant 2017



That was told to a tugger at a sales pitch. I was at a sales pitch after that and was told that I needed to upgrade to Wyndham so I could use RCI because II doesn't have as much inventory as RCI. So, which sales person was lying?


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