# What are your most recent SA trades?



## JACKC (Dec 14, 2005)

Posts have been sparse on this board lately. I'm wondering how tuggers are doing with their SA trades these days.

Pickings seem slimmer than in the past, but good things do show up using our Sudwala. We see HGVC's and Sheraton Vistana's in Orlando and Sheraton Broadway in Myrtle Beach; not a whole lot at prime time, though. The 1-in-4 rule blocks us from exchanging to these as often as we'd like. 

We recently pulled a June, 2006 trade to Foxrun at Lake Lure with a white 1br Sudwala, and we have some other searches going. 

Love to hear how others are faring.

Jack


----------



## michelle (Dec 14, 2005)

*Interesting question.*

In the past, we came to the conclusion that it was best not to boast about SA trades. It seemed too may people were concerned about a) the low price we paid for these resorts, b) the low price we paid for maintenance fees, and c) the fact that white standard studio weeks could pull "nice" 2 bedroom resorts, even places like Manhattan Club.

But what is the feeling now? And what could the repercussions for naming our trades be?

With the rand/dollar exchange rate now, these resorts aren't as cheap as they used to be, and maintenance required by top resorts are getting to be comparable with fees paid for a US resort.

Plus we all know what happened on "Black Sunday", and how those same white standard studios aren't trading as well as they used to.

So, will it be safe to talk about trades, or not?


----------



## vincenton (Dec 14, 2005)

Use my for PFD into my RCI points account.

Vincent.


----------



## arfie (Dec 14, 2005)

*You said it Michelle!*

Loose lips sink ships..or something.  Anyway, you put very succinctly and tactfully and thank you for that!


----------



## TravelOrDie (Dec 15, 2005)

*2 recent trades (this summer...)*

Traded my 1 bedroom Silversands into a 1 bedroom @ the Grandview @ Las Vegas and traded my 2 bedroom Castleburn into a 2 bedroom HGV Club @ the Las Vegas Hilton...  both very nice!


----------



## JoeMid (Dec 15, 2005)

I had a late SA deposit that wouldn't get full PFD, used it for TMC.


----------



## myip (Dec 15, 2005)

Traded last week with Durban Sands 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom Sheraton Vistana Village for July 2006.


----------



## Gramma5 (Dec 15, 2005)

*I'm Happy....*

I trade mine 18-20+ months out and am able to get mostly what I want and have been very happy over the 3 years that I have traded.  the trades are not Ritz-Carlton quality but certainly very nice.......Takes planning and abit of looking.........
Sherry


----------



## byeloe (Dec 15, 2005)

*reply*

This week snagged Royal Mayan for Mar 2007


----------



## Avery (Dec 15, 2005)

arfie said:
			
		

> Loose lips sink ships..or something.  Anyway, you put very succinctly and tactfully and thank you for that!



Also known as the TUG Kiss of Death.


----------



## KHolleger (Dec 16, 2005)

We just spent Thanksgiving using a South African trade.  Not a high powered trade, since I traded a red week for a blue week, but it was what we wanted.  We spent Thanksgiving at Ocean Time in Ocean City, Maryland, as we do most years.  After a few years of trying to find trades into 3-bedroom units, we decided to buy one in Ocean City, so beginning next year, no more trades for Thanksgiving.  We'll go back as owners!


----------



## DianeH (Dec 16, 2005)

I personally do not understand why we SA owners have to keep our great trades in the closet. Just because we read, and acted on a wonderful opportunity to buy cheap and trade cheap and someone else didn't?  What about the folks who buy at resorts for highly inflated prices?  Is the person who bought at the same resort for 70% less not allowed to boast of their fab trade?

We do as Sherry said.  It does take careful planning well in advance. We are a single income family and I must save for our vacations very carefully.

Our latest trade has been for Mazatlan (still waiting for another exchange to go with it).  I've pulled Paniolo Greens, and a few others in Hawaii for 2007.  I didn't take them but its still good to see.

I hope I haven't upset anyone with my comments. 

Diane


----------



## JeffV (Dec 16, 2005)

Just keep right on bragging and trust me, you won't like the result.  But this is a free country and you can do what you want.


----------



## jbrunson (Dec 16, 2005)

*SA trading power*

When I was in Kauai, I asked HTSE what kind of deposits they accepted.  The answer was "any thing red except South Africa."  I'm not too sure the problem is that SA weeks are undesireable.   My guess is that a number of exchangers have bragged about getting the trade with their $200 grass shack and owners of costly weeks have made it known they don't appreciate having their face rubbed in it.  Developers, HOA's and individual owners have a stake in the perception their property is worth considerably more than a cheap SA week.  Most of us probably enjoy sharing information with others, particularly good deals.  But there are probably good ways and bad ways of doing it.


----------



## Laurie (Dec 17, 2005)

*Exactly what I wanted, when I wanted it*

Earlier this year I confirmed a week in the Italian Alps for early June of next year, in my #1 pick of locations within the region. This isn't prime season in a high-demand area, but it was just exactly what I wanted and needed, to fit between 2 already-booked weeks in Italy, at 1 of my top 2 resort choices there.

This past October we went to Foxrun for leaf-peeping, and over Memorial Day weekend this year to Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge at north Lake Tahoe, where we met some RCI members from South Africa who were intrigued that we owned there. I absolutely *loved* every single thing about Red Wolf. Again, neither of these were prime season, but both were just when we wanted to go. 

My SA week trades much like my average US trader (but still much lower mf's even with the rand's strength) - nothing to brag about, just information to share about the instances the trade power is adequate for exactly what we want.


----------



## gravedee (Dec 18, 2005)

I traded into a 2 bd Kona Coast Resort for sept 07 with a Strand week and Paniolo 2 bd a week later with a Dik week.  I'm happy.


----------



## JEFF H (Dec 18, 2005)

jbrunson said:
			
		

> My guess is that a number of exchangers have bragged about getting the trade with their $200 grass shack and owners of costly weeks have made it known they don't appreciate having their face rubbed in it.  Developers, HOA's and individual owners have a stake in the perception their property is worth considerably more than a cheap SA week.  Most of us probably enjoy sharing information with others, particularly good deals.  But there are probably good ways and bad ways of doing it.



I think it a big misconception that all SA timeshare are grass shacks or less desirable in General than Timeshare resorts in North America.
I have read plenty of Posts on TUG of people who own small Studio hotel room units in North America exchanging for high demand 2-BR units in top demand vacation destinations.
Why is it when a SA owners posts about there good fortune in exchanging its called bragging but when owners of studios do it on other areas of TUG its not?
Many Studio units in North America can be picked-up cheaply on the resale market and have lower or about the same maintenance fees as many SA weeks.
The Fact is SA weeks are just like weeks from other vacation destinations and vary from Great trade power to Poor.


----------



## Laurie (Dec 18, 2005)

jbrunson said:
			
		

> When I was in Kauai, I asked HTSE what kind of deposits they accepted.  The answer was "any thing red except South Africa."  I'm not too sure the problem is that SA weeks are undesireable.   My guess is that a number of exchangers have bragged about getting the trade with their $200 grass shack and owners of costly weeks have made it known they don't appreciate having their face rubbed in it.  Developers, HOA's and individual owners have a stake in the perception their property is worth considerably more than a cheap SA week.  Most of us probably enjoy sharing information with others, particularly good deals.  But there are probably good ways and bad ways of doing it.


Did you ask them the reason for their qualification?

More likely IMO, they don't want to accept these SA deposits because the majority of folks who use this exchange company (North Americans?) don't want to exchange back into SA, at least not in the ratio of North Americans who wish to deposit them in exchange for a week in North America and Hawaii - so they'd be left with an imbalance of inventory. 

Could be as simple as that, and have nothing to do with relative maintenance fees of the exchanged property, or the building material thereof.


----------



## Carolinian (Dec 18, 2005)

When I spent three weeks travelling in SA, I never ran into another American but I saw plenty of European tourists.  I suspect that for an exchange company to want to accept many SA weeks, they would have to have a presence in Europe, where there are a lot of people wanting to trade into there.   HTSE does not.  On the other hand, DAE, which accepts SA, does.  In fact, in their UK office, they have an SA specialist who helps people wanting to trade into SA.


----------



## beckham (Dec 20, 2005)

*Trades*

We've done well--Vegas, MC, Hilton Head, Puerto Vallarta...and I'm quite pleased. It all started with my discovering TUG several years ago.

But I'm not sure why the idea of "loose lips sink ships" doesn't seem to sink in with some TUGGERs. If the president thinks spying on private citizens is okay, then go figure.

--Barry


----------



## JEFF H (Dec 21, 2005)

beckham said:
			
		

> But I'm not sure why the idea of "loose lips sink ships" doesn't seem to sink in with some TUGGERs.
> --Barry



If you have a secret or something to hide that you don't want others knowing about then you should keep it to yourself.

There is no big secret to keep anymore about SA.
Maybe 4-5 years ago when the first Tuggers discovered SA and the Tiger trade power it had at that time had kept silent about it then maybe it would still be the same today or maybe not.
The Bottom line is The tiger was let out of the Bag on SA  several years now
and is now nothing more than a ordianary House Cat.
The currency exchange rate at that time made it a huge bargain but that is no longer true today.
very Limited deposits into RCI USA by North American owners was another imbalance that gave it great exchange value but all that has changed.

When the next great imbalance comes along Im sure many wise tuggers will keep it a secret much longer.


----------



## michelle (Dec 21, 2005)

JEFF H said:
			
		

> very Limited deposits into RCI USA by North American owners was another imbalance that gave it great exchange value but all that has changed.



Jeff H, I agree with most of what you say, but...

As an aside, I dont think the quote above is true... (However, I have no proof, of course!! Stricktly my opinion!)

I think that in the past the deposited SA t/s was given straight back to RCI SA, where the good ones were grabbed up pretty quickly, as is the case with RCI SA. I say this because we could never do an online trade to SA, and SA cannot do an online trade to USA... All had to be done over the phone with a VG, and sometimes took a while to sort out.


----------



## JEFF H (Dec 21, 2005)

michelle said:
			
		

> I think that in the past the deposited SA t/s was given straight back to RCI SA, where the good ones were grabbed up pretty quickly, as is the case with RCI SA. I say this because we could never do an online trade to SA, and SA cannot do an online trade to USA... All had to be done over the phone with a VG, and sometimes took a while to sort out.



Good point and I expect the same may be true still.
I have tried depositing my SA online but that does not seem to go thru untill my resort tells RCI SA to bank it first.

I think they just ignored the SA deposits going into RCI USA members accounts untill the trikle turned into a flood so to speak.
No doubt they were forced to take notice when resorts like MC screamed bloody murder after there home town newspaper stuck the SA fact in there face. Thats the kinda thing that can sink ships real quick.
I think RCI USA did the right thing by adjusting the trade power based on demand for SA week deposits. Some owners benefited by the change and others lost but atleast its based on demand as it should be.


----------



## tonyg (Dec 27, 2005)

Over the years we have found that speaking of loopholes and advantages have been closely followed by changes to remove those loopholes and advantages. It is a natural thing for a company to want to close loopholes that give an unfair advantage to some of their customers. If you tell me that you can trade into my resort with a $ 500 low maintenance fee resale and I'm trying to sell my units for over 20k with a high MF, I will be screaming and might even go to another exchange company if my demands are not addressed. I keep my little secrets private, telling some via e-mail and refuse to post them on a public bulletin board.


----------



## Sue S (Dec 28, 2005)

*Excellent exchange (in my view)*

Yesterday I managed to exchange a 2-bed red Lowveld Lodge for a 2-bed at Mountainside Restort, Stowe, Vermont for 11 Feb.  This is the European school holiday week and it's a really busy ski week over here.  I don't know whether or not this would be regarded as an exceptional trade (it's not President's Week) but for me it couldn't be better and I couldn't be happier - except that it's not me going it's my sister and her friends


----------



## ham4mel (Dec 28, 2005)

*bad news*

not a good idea to share this kind of info; rci is watching and reduces the trading power with every good trade that is posted; Jeff is absolutely right; keep a lid on this stuff!!!


----------



## MuranoJo (Jan 3, 2006)

Agree Jeff.
However, don't think there's too much to brag about these days.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jan 3, 2006)

*I Don't Get It.*



			
				ham4mel said:
			
		

> not a good idea to share this kind of info; rci is watching and reduces the trading power with every good trade that is posted;


I don't get it about keeping SA trades hush-hush on TUG. 

I mean, the RCI people don't need to check TUG to notice the SA timeshare trades that are happening. 

Shucks, all these good trades we think we're keeping mum are _RCI exchanges_. 

All RCI has to do is just look at their own internal RCI deposit & exchange records to find out exactly who's depositing what & who's getting what on exchange. 

The real place where discretion is advisable is in on scene at the resorts the SA owners exchange into. 

Stateside owners who paid full freight plus big annual fees for their weeks might not take kindly to hearing exchange guests brag about getting in on RCI exchange for SA weeks that cost them hardly anything to buy & practically nothing in annual levies. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.


----------



## Skatduder (Jan 3, 2006)

I haven't been watching this board for a while. But I'm just amazed that
people still talk about there SA trades. Then complain because they can't get a resort. I have bragging rights, but I'm not stupid. Why lose a good thing, you might want to go back to that resort someday.


----------



## thetimeshareguy (Jan 4, 2006)

Our most recent excellent exchanges are as follows (we own two red weeks at a standard SA resort and one blue week at a RID):

-- A week at each of Grand Mayan Resort and Mayan Palace Resort in the Riviera Maya, Mexico (we leave on Friday, yippee!).

-- A week each at Sheraton's Vistana and Westgate Vacation Village in Orlando (for next year after Christmas).

Except for the Grand Mayan (one bedroom) all the exchanges are two-bedroom units.

By the way, I don't agree at all that we shouldn't discuss these matters here. It's not "bragging" to discuss good exchanges. Every time I check over at these SA boards (which isn't often) I encounter this discussion. Face it, only a tiny fraction of timeshare owners are TUG members and I don't think RCI cares that much that we get good exchanges. It's fantasy to think they monitor this board, learn of a good exchange, and then run to the computer and tweak it to eliminate that possibility. RCI makes money off of every exchange, so I expect they're fairly okay with a few people gaming the system and getting good exchanges. In any case, if we can't talk about it here, where can we talk about it? I say "get over it" and move on.


----------



## MuranoJo (Jan 4, 2006)

Jeff, I thought I replied last night, but I must not have sent the message correctly.  (I've been away from the Board for some time, so adjusting to the new site.)
Anyway, I couldn't agree more.  Although, given the increasing costs and declining trade power, I'm not sure we have a lot to brag about.  Oops, I may have just diminished my future sales potential.    

I honestly believe all the bragging in the past combined with the exploitation of one or two members who were getting great trades and then renting them, was the kiss of death and resulted in Black Monday, or whatever we call it.


----------



## MuranoJo (Jan 4, 2006)

thetimeshareguy said:
			
		

> By It's fantasy to think they monitor this board, learn of a good exchange, and then run to the computer and tweak it to eliminate that possibility.


Timeshareguy,
I don't believe it's fantasy that they monitor this board and make changes based on what happens here...not at all.
Dare we bring up the MC experience from a few years ago as a prime example?  This board has gotten press for the SA 'thing' a few times, a few TUG folks who were willing were interviewed, and then the floodgates really opened.
Bottom line, the exposure has significantly negatively impacted the SA exchange experience, right or wrong, depending on where you own.


----------



## JEFF H (Jan 5, 2006)

muranojo said:
			
		

> Bottom line, the exposure has significantly negatively impacted the SA exchange experience, right or wrong, depending on where you own.



Negative or Positive impact can be debated.
Some SA week owners Gained, many Lost and others stayed the same.
It has had the effect of increasing trade power for owners of truely High demand SA weeks.
In the early days all SA weeks received a pretty generous generic trade power value making even low demand weeks very valuable for exchange.
SA Trade power however is now based on supply and demand as it should have been all along just like the rest of the weeks deposited to RCI USA. 
Owners of High demand weeks,larger units should be rewarded with Higher trade power than low demand studios or 1-br
Higher Quality resort owners should also benefit from higher VEP scores.


----------



## guitarlars (Jan 5, 2006)

*Trades seem fair to me (sorry - long)*

I have four SA's, two at the Seapointer and two at Sudwalla.

The Seapointer's were, from my perspective, fairly priced when I bought them due to the exchange rate differential. The levy has increased to the point where it is coming into line with U.S. equivalent timeshares. In short, an OK, but not great deal.

I feel like the Seapointer's trade about the same as my U.S. RID resort, which has approximately the same annual maintenance cost. The U.S. resort actually cost less to purchase than the Seapointer's. If anything the bargain was created by searching and purchasing used, not due to SA.

Where exactly does this view that an SA timeshare is somehow trading differently than an equivalent U.S. after Black Sunday? I'm not seeing it, and don't feel that I'm gaming the system if I pay the same cost and get the same trades with either a U.S. resort or SA resort.

The Sudwalla's are a slightly different tale, cheap to buy, low levy, etc. They have traded better that I would have hoped, but I suspect not that differently than a U.S. equivalent would trade.  In this case I view these as a fortunate purchase due to currency advantages and the prior situation in SA, but again don't see as how I'm getting anything more than a U.S. or other timeshare would get for an equivalent quality unit.

Bottom line, all this talk about RCI monitoring the system is paranoia. They have full access to the trade data and I would be shocked if they don't mine the data regularly in order to determine trade values (on the other hand, given that they can't run a web-site worth a hoot, so maybe I overestimate their technical savvy). This little BBS is not likely to matter given the number of trades in comparison to the limited number of members here.

If you go around bragging at the resorts about your trade and how the other owners are getting ripped off because they paid full pop for a new unit, then expect some blow-back and complaints to RCI. That might cause problems. That's just because the developers don't want to lose their prospective rip-off sales and don't want buyers to consider the prospect that they will lose most of the purchase price the day they sign the agreement.

If anything keep your lips sealed about the trades when enjoying the fruits of your hard work (buying low and searching for trades) at the resort, but it's not likely to be a problem discussing it here. Same goes for advice on buying, because that's the source of the good deal. If you can't help yourself just attribute it to buying used, not SA. 

My opinion only,

Lars


----------



## stellamylove (Jan 5, 2006)

*Loose Lips do Sink Ships!*

A couple of years ago I used to get very good sometimes incredible trades with my SA week.  Now my week hardly pulls anything that I would want to use.  I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone else.  RCI really does read these boards.  Please take this seriously.
Thanks.


----------



## JEFF H (Jan 5, 2006)

guitarlars said:
			
		

> Where exactly does this view that an SA timeshare is somehow trading differently than an equivalent U.S. after Black Sunday? I'm not seeing it, and don't feel that I'm gaming the system if I pay the same cost and get the same trades with either a U.S. resort or SA resort.
> \



I agree.
Its a misconception today based on the way things were with SA weeks befor they were valued based on supply and demand.
Today they are valued properly.


----------



## Laurie (Jan 7, 2006)

JEFF H said:
			
		

> Its a misconception today based on the way things were with SA weeks befor they were valued based on supply and demand.
> Today they are valued properly.


I agree too. The "loophole" back then was that there was no computer program to value them properly, and thousands of us took advantage of that. I believe they fixed this not as much because our lips had the power to sink RCI ships, but more likely that our discussions caused thousands more folks to buy previously unowned and/or undeposited weeks which flooded their inventory. RCI was probably planning to integrate RCI-SA into their worldwide computer system at some point, maybe this huge influx of inventory speeded up their urgency, but of course they needed to do it in this day and age.

(I'm not saying that RCI doesn't read these boards, or that other "loophole" discussion here hasn't caused other RCI loopholes to be closed, of course it has, but I don't believe that applies to SA any longer.) 

That "loophole" has been closed, and now what we can trade into with our SA weeks is based on the same algorithms used for all other RCI resorts. SA weeks are hardly the great traders they once were, so let's get over our fears and share real info with our fellow TUGgers again. 

To me, hanging onto the view that our current SA threads have some huge power to destroy what is left in their trade power is like dogs' "magical thinking" ("I bark, and my dinner bowl comes to me - because that's what happened yesterday. If I didn't bark, I wouldn't ever get fed" sort of thing).


----------



## Mimi (Jan 10, 2006)

*SA Trades*

Trades using 1br and 2br Mount Amanzi:

2006:  Sunterra Villa Mirage, Scottsdale 2br
          Chatteau Charmont, Gulfport 2br--week redeposited by RCI after  
                                                        resort was demolished by Katrina
          French Quarter, Branson 2br    

2005:  Summer Bay, Las Vegas 2br
          Los Abrigados, Sedona  2br

2004:  Hacienda Del Mar, Cabo San Lucas 2br
          Orange Lake, Orlando, 1br


----------



## Diane (Jan 10, 2006)

Mimi -- it would be of interest to know whether you were using Red or Peak Mt. Amanzi weeks, whether they were deposited more than one year before their start date, the check-in dates or season of the resorts you snagged and the impact of Black Sunday.   Glad you are enjoying your trades.

Diane


----------

