# Opt-in Window for HGV Max



## Seaport104 (Oct 18, 2022)

*Your Activation Window Is Now Open!*

*Create Wonderful Vacation Experiences*
HGV Max gives Members more opportunities to create vacation experiences with their friends and family.

Moving your membership into HGV Max is optional - if you're happy with your current Club membership the way it is, there is no requirement to join HGV Max.

Read below to learn more about HGV Max and how to join the program. If you would like to opt in, be sure to do so by December 6, 2022.

*Overview*

HGV Max Tiers
What Stays the Same?
What's New?
What's Not Included?
How Do I Join?


*HGV Max Tiers*
HGV Max offers more tier levels, and with that, more ways to access features and benefits. See below for the new HGV Max tier structure and ClubPoints requirements for each level, and refer to the updated Club Rules here for full details.

*





<17,000 CLUBPOINTS





17,000+ CLUBPOINTS





22,000+  CLUBPOINTS





38,000+ CLUBPOINTS





54,000+ CLUBPOINTS 





100,000+ CLUBPOINTS*
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*What Stays the Same?*
Many of your favorite features from the current HGV Club program will continue when you join HGV Max. Below we list some of these features, but please refer to your most current Club Rules here for the full list.


*ClubPoints*ClubPoints affiliated with your timeshare ownership stay the same.*Booking Windows*Booking Window access for Home Week, Club and Open Season reservations remain unchanged.*Hilton Grand Vacations Resort Access*Access to the portfolio of Hilton Grand Vacations Club resorts remains the same.*Hilton Honors™ Membership*Continue to enjoy automatic Hilton Honors status based on your HGV ownership.*Hilton Honors™ Conversion*Continue to enjoy the flexibility to convert ClubPoints into Hilton Honors Points as you do today.*ClubPartner Perks*Take advantage of vacation experiences available with existing Club Partners.*RCI Exchange*Keep the ability to exchange your Points into RCI for stays outside of the Hilton Grand Vacations property portfolio.*Borrow Points*Members can continue to borrow Points from their next-year allotment.
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*What's New?*
Some of the features from the current HGV Club program are available in HGV Max but change how they operate or are applied. There are also new features that you’ll have access to when joining HGV Max. See a sample of these features below and refer to your most current Club Rules here for more information.


*Saved Points*Members can continue to save current-year ClubPoints into the following year, but now have an earlier opportunity starting in August to save Points for a reduced fee.*Larger Brand Resort Portfolio*Access to more properties in more destinations with our expanded resort portfolio.*HGV Max Booking Window*Make reservations across the expanded portfolio of resorts starting 6 months before check-out at most resorts.*Save on Hilton Stays*10% savings off the regularly published rates when making reservations online at 7,000 Hilton hotels and resorts (subject to availability) with the HGV Max Rate.*Inclusive Club Dues*Includes complimentary reservation transactions (online and phone) across the expanded portfolio of in-network properties.

*NOTE:* For 2023, the Annual Dues for HGV Max are $291. If you’ve already paid your 2023 Club Dues and the amount you paid was less than $291, you will be responsible for the difference.
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*What's Not Included?*
HGV Max allows us to launch new features and ways for Members to elevate their vacation experience, many of which will continue to launch over time. Doing this means that some features from the HGV Club program will no longer be available. Below we list some of these features, but please refer to your most current Club Rules here for full details.


Vacation exchange with Villas of Distinction
Vacation exchange with International Holiday Retreats
Merchandise discounts at select HGV resorts
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*How Do I Enroll?*
We hope you’re as excited about HGV Max as we are!

With Hilton Grand Vacations’ acquisition of Diamond Resorts, we have the opportunity to combine the best features and benefits from both Club programs with new enhancements to deliver more ways for Members to go on and enjoy their vacations.

There is *no requirement to opt into HGV Max.* You can continue to enjoy your ownership and HGV Club program as you do today.

If you want to opt-in or you would like to speak to someone to learn more, please select from one of the options below:


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## HuskerATL (Oct 18, 2022)

What this an email that you received from a purchase between January and April?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 18, 2022)

Is the a $7,000 opt in fee?


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## Talent312 (Oct 18, 2022)

It's called puffery.
The problem is in what's behind the curtain.
.


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## Seaport104 (Oct 18, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> What this an email that you received from a purchase between January and April?



Yes



Zenichiro said:


> Is the a $7,000 opt in fee?



No opt in fee for this one.


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## Seaport104 (Oct 18, 2022)

Talent312 said:


> It's called puffery.
> The problem is in what's behind the curtain.
> .



Agree. Anyone know what happens when you have some ownerships in HGV Max and others not?


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## dayooper (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Is the a $7,000 opt in fee?



No, this is for those that bought from Jan 14 through April 4. They have the option of joining Max for free (it was the enticement to get them to buy before the program was announced). Because they were purchasing before it was announced, they were not automatically enrolled into Max. There is no option for the $7000 buy in yet.


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## dayooper (Oct 18, 2022)

Seaport104 said:


> Agree. Anyone know what happens when you have some ownerships in HGV Max and others not?



Not sure that's an option. IIRC, it was said that you were either all of your deeds are Max or none of your deeds. That was said in the spring, so that might have changed.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 18, 2022)

Has anyone tried to opt in? what has happened if you did?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 18, 2022)

Said it will let me know in 1-2 business days. May be a glitch


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Said it will let me know in 1-2 business days. May be a glitch



did you buy earlier this year?  or just followed a link?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 18, 2022)

No that’s why I said it’s a glitch most likely


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## Zenichiro (Oct 18, 2022)

I found this humorous. If you search $7,000 in the 2022 Hilton Grand Vacations Club Rules you will not find it. They actually put $7.000 which would be seven dollars


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## ksimm (Oct 18, 2022)

Im


Zenichiro said:


> I found this humorous. If you search $7,000 in the 2022 Hilton Grand Vacations Club Rules you will not find it. They actually put $7.000 which would be seven dollars


 I am taking this to my next owners update.


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## pedro47 (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> /QUOTE]
> Deleted by Pedro47


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> I found this humorous. If you search $7,000 in the 2022 Hilton Grand Vacations Club Rules you will not find it. They actually put $7.000 which would be seven dollars




Can you provide the link for that document of at least where I can find it on HGVC website.


Never mind I finally found it.


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> I found this humorous. If you search $7,000 in the 2022 Hilton Grand Vacations Club Rules you will not find it. They actually put $7.000 which would be seven dollars



It's likely a work product of some European origin because the comma and period protocols were switched; in "other" parts of the world 7.000,00 is seven thousand to two decimal places.

_"When it comes to formatting numbers, the differences between the European and American systems don’t end with the decimal marker. There’s one more important difference: When writing large numbers (tens of thousands or more), in most European countries either a *dot or a thin space* is used to separate groups of three digits—counting from both the left and the right of the decimal separator.

For example, in Europe, we generally write three hundred thousand either as 300.000 (groups of three digits separated by a dot) or 300 000 (groups of three digits separated by a thin space). Some countries in Europe use other systems; in Switzerland, for example, an apostrophe is the thousands separator.

Whether a dot or a space is used differs by country, but in most European countries a comma is generally not used for this purpose. That would be confusing, because the comma is the most commonly used decimal separator in Europe."_






						Number formatting in Europe vs. the U.S. – Language Editing
					

Read this post to understand how number formatting in Europe differs from that in the U.S. in terms of the decimal point vs. decimal comma and the thousands separator.




					www.languageediting.com


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## HuskerATL (Oct 18, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> It's likely a work product of some European origin because the comma and period protocols were switched; in "other" parts of the world 7.000,00 is seven thousand to two decimal places.
> 
> _"When it comes to formatting numbers, the differences between the European and American systems don’t end with the decimal marker. There’s one more important difference: When writing large numbers (tens of thousands or more), in most European countries either a *dot or a thin space* is used to separate groups of three digits—counting from both the left and the right of the decimal separator.
> 
> ...


This is what I really like about TUG... Discussions can go completely sideways.... But good info shared ..


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## Zenichiro (Oct 18, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> It's likely a work product of some European origin because the comma and period protocols were switched; in "other" parts of the world 7.000,00 is seven thousand to two decimal places.
> 
> _"When it comes to formatting numbers, the differences between the European and American systems don’t end with the decimal marker. There’s one more important difference: When writing large numbers (tens of thousands or more), in most European countries either a *dot or a thin space* is used to separate groups of three digits—counting from both the left and the right of the decimal separator.
> 
> ...


The 2022 club rules appear to me to be a contract. If someone paid $7,000 and the contract shows $7.000 and 90+% of the contract is in American pricing I don’t think the European version you describe would hold up in court.
Especially when the seller is a timeshare company. Legal rights depend on something fairly tricky in the law: whether or not you have a ‘contract’.
Either way I found it comical.


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 18, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> The 2022 club rules appear to me to be a contract. If someone paid $7,000 and the contract shows $7.000 and 90+% of the contract is in American pricing I don’t think the European version you describe would hold up in court.
> Especially when the seller is a timeshare company. Legal rights depend on something fairly tricky in the law: whether or not you have a ‘contract’.
> Either way I found it comical.


I didn't realize you were taking it all to court...


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## jabberwocky (Oct 19, 2022)

On TUG we have a habit of launching a lot of class action lawsuits…or at least threatening to.

Some people here love their courtrooms.


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## ocdb8r (Oct 19, 2022)

Does anyone know what an "Out of Network" reservation would be?  There is a difference in the Max fee chart for "in network" and "out of network" reservations.  I had initially assumed this was talking about external exchanges, but given there is a whole separate section on RCI, that's clearly not it.  I see no other references in the whole club rules to "in network" vs "out of network" resorts.


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

I just noticed at the bottom of the latest Club Traveler Email that there's a link to "opt in" to HGV Max....since I bought via Scotland this year I clicked on it and submitted the form...we'll see what happens. It says it takes 1-2 business days.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

ksimm said:


> I just noticed at the bottom of the latest Club Traveler Email that there's a link to "opt in" to HGV Max....since I bought via Scotland this year I clicked on it and submitted the form...we'll see what happens. It says it takes 1-2 business days.
> 
> View attachment 66914


interesting...yes, let us know what happens.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> Out of Network" reservation would be


I wonder this also since on the Max sign up page it has this:


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

I signed in with my HGVC member number and I got the opt in mssg. And, I only own a resale SW affiliate. I didn't hit Opt in final transx button.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> I signed in with my HGVC member number and I got the opt in mssg. And, I only own a resale SW affiliate. I didn't hit Opt in final transx button.


When did you buy?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> I signed in with my HGVC member number and I got the opt in mssg. And, I only own a resale SW affiliate. I didn't hit Opt in final transx button.


You should


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> You should


Yes, take advantage of it while one can. Just consider the higher Club Fee.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> interesting...yes, let us know what happens.


I see this as well, and I bought nearly 20 years ago.  I thought it would cost me $7K to buy in?  It's allowing me to go through sign up process online.  Is that a glitch?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

This is on the FB page about the Max Tiers: HVC/DRI-We have a Club Combinations contract for points that HGVC doesn’t count. As a result, we are know a tier lower for HGVMax than DRI. 

So it will be interesting to see how a person with a mix of retail and resale end up in the Tiers.  I suspect only retail will count toward Tier points and if that is so, then what happens to the resale points?  I guess they stay in HGVC legacy and used there but not in Max.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I see this as well, and I bought nearly 20 years ago.  I thought it would cost me $7K to buy in?  It's allowing me to go through sign up process online.  Is that a glitch?


Could be a glitch or an oversight with Scotland "resales". Don't they qualify for Elite ownership levels?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I see this as well, and I bought nearly 20 years ago.  I thought it would cost me $7K to buy in?  It's allowing me to go through sign up process online.  Is that a glitch?


I have no idea but let us know what happens. Maybe it is an IT glitch and they will catch it but maybe you get in with no purchase or fee....let us know.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Don't they qualify for Elite ownership levels?


They do but not supposed to count for Max...but some have and some have not.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Could be a glitch or an oversight with Scotland "resales". Don't they qualify for Elite ownership levels?


I own in Las Vegas though, bought 20 years ago.


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Yes, take advantage of it while one can. Just consider the higher Club Fee.




I feel it's a wash as long as you book 2 weeks a year. The extra fee is offset by the no booking fees.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I own in Las Vegas though, bought 20 years ago.


Its a glitch, but you will get MAX


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

ksimm said:


> I feel it's a wash as long as you book 2 weeks a year. The extra fee is offset by the no booking fees.


unless, you are Elite Premier where booking, saving, guest certs are already all free....plus other perks so each will need weigh their individual benefits.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Its a glitch, but you will get MAX


So my only payment would be the club fee of 291 vs 199 if I proceed with the Glitch?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

Didnt charge me, yet ...


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## dayooper (Oct 19, 2022)

No glitch for me. Resale only bought first in 2018.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

dayooper said:


> No glitch for me. Resale only bought first in 2018.


you  didn't get the opt in option?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

dayooper said:


> No glitch for me. Resale only bought first in 2018.


You can go through the prompts and OPT in and you will have MAX and can see the MAX properties and availability. I have resale in Vegas as well


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I own in Las Vegas though, bought 20 years ago.


It is also a possible data entry error. It is possible when they were updating the ownership record all those years ago, it was somehow coded as a retail purchase instead of resale transfer. Stranger things have happened. People have reported similar things happening with Marriott and Vistana transfers. Someone just keys it in wrong and you luck out.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> You can go through the prompts and OPT in and you will have MAX and can see the MAX properties and availability. I have resale in Vegas as well


You did this already and just have a resale Vegas?  what tier are you?  I am curious to see what Tier folks who have both retail and resale end up compared to their Elite level in the HGVC Legacy


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It is also a possible data entry error


or, who ever uses the opt in link just gets in, regardless of ownership, but due to a system glitch.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It is also a possible data entry error. It is possible when they were updating the ownership record all those years ago, it was somehow coded as a retail purchase instead of resale transfer. Stranger things have happened. People have reported similar things happening with Marriott and Vistana transfers. Someone just keys it in wrong and you luck out.


This could be for me because it shows that I bought in 2000 but I bought 2 years ago. I also get invited to owner updates all the time. Just took an update and package for Park City in July 2023. They let me upgrade to 1 bedroom lol


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> It is also a possible data entry error. It is possible when they were updating the ownership record all those years ago, it was somehow coded as a retail purchase instead of resale transfer. Stranger things have happened. People have reported similar things happening with Marriott and Vistana transfers. Someone just keys it in wrong and you luck out.


Yes I've heard the same.  So essentially with a Glitch, I'd have to pay $92 extra for the difference of the Club Fees, and I'd have Max.  I'll see if it works for others first. lol


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> Yes I've heard the same.  So essentially with a Glitch, I'd have to pay $92 extra for the difference of the Club Fees, and I'd have Max.  I'll see if it works for others first. lol


It works


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> This could be for me because it shows that I bought in 2000 but I bought 2 years ago. I also get invited to owner updates all the time. Just took an update and package for Park City in July 2023. They let me upgrade to 1 bedroom lol


sounds like the original owner.  I think that comes up by default and they have to did a bit more to see that it is resale.  I get those same comments from our resale Blvds.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> It works


so you can book in HVC now?


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> unless, you are Elite Premier where booking, saving, guest certs are already all free....plus other perks so each will need weigh their individual benefits.




Excellent point, I should have mentioned the Elite disclaimer. I know Max has some eliteish type perks as you go up in points, but I'm not sure how well they translate into real benefits, or if you'd get them if you're Elite now.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

ksimm said:


> Excellent point, I should have mentioned the Elite disclaimer. I know Max has some eliteish type perks as you go up in points, but I'm not sure how well they translate into real benefits, or if you'd get them if you're Elite now.


I think the benefits aren't as good when comparing elite level to the equivalent Tier level. The problem is that a person may not get all their points counted for the Tier so they may drop.  We are EP but due to six resale Craig so those count as elite but not for Max Tiers.  That would be my concern for anyone opting in and if they are elite with resale.  On the other hand, in July at the sale update, they tried to get us to upgrade our Blvds to retail and told us that we would go from EP to Premier + but I didn't buy it and don't think they knew.


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

hmmm...I don't know if I even want Max--even if it's "free" and only $91 more a year. I was debating not paying HGVC this year and "opting out" of HGVC and just keeping SW FL affiliate and depositing with II on years I don't use it.
And, I'm fearful if I opt in today during glitch, that I'll get a $7,000 bill--any chance that could happen?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> hmmm...I don't know if I even want Max--even if it's "free" and only $91 more a year. I was debating not paying HGVC this year and "opting out" of HGVC and just keeping SW FL affiliate and depositing with II on years I don't use it.
> And, I'm fearful if I opt in today during glitch, that I'll get a $7,000 bill--any chance that could happen?


That is a good question. Surely, if you opt in and there is a $7k fee requirement, it would tell you. If not, and you do opt in, then get the bill, I would think that you could then opt out.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> That is a good question. Surely, if you opt in and there is a $7k fee requirement, it would tell you. If not, and you do opt in, then get the bill, I would think that you could then opt out.


I would suspect they would just boot people out. If they are charging a fee, it needs to be disclosed as part of the flow and I would fully expect they would be collecting it up front.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> so you can book in HVC now?


yes


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> That is a good question. Surely, if you opt in and there is a $7k fee requirement, it would tell you. If not, and you do opt in, then get the bill, I would think that you could then opt out.


Plus I would then point out that it is $7.000 not $7,000


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> yes


Have you checked your maintenance fee bill to see if they adjusted for the club dues?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> Have you checked your maintenance fee bill to see if they adjusted for the club dues?


yes they have not yet


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> yes


Looks like you are in to me and just to clarify, you only have a vegas resale?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Looks like you are in to me and just to clarify, you only have a vegas resale?


Yes just a good ole platinum Paradise


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## GT75 (Oct 19, 2022)

I think that HGVC has finally adjusted the price of HGV Max closer to what it worth.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 19, 2022)

@Zenichiro Did you buy your Paradise unit this year? If so, what month?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @Zenichiro Did you buy your Paradise unit this year? If so, what month?


2020


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> 2020


you skated in for free on a 2020 resale....awesome...


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @Zenichiro Did you buy your Paradise unit this year? If so, what month?


I bought mine in 2003 and it's allowing me to "opt in" via the link in the email.


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

so, who has actually opted in today and been able to see/book MAX?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I bought mine in 2003 and it's allowing me to "opt in" via the link in the email.


Yea I dont think I am alone. Its either everyone can do it if they have the link or some owners are coded incorrectly


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> I bought mine in 2003 and it's allowing me to "opt in" via the link in the email.


That is even more awesome....a 20 year old resale....and in...


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Yea I dont think I am alone. Its either everyone can do it if they have the link or some owners are coded incorrectly


It kind of looks like whoever has the link can do it. I would be worried that I would lose more than I would gain due to our many resale and EP.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> so, who has actually opted in today and been able to see/book MAX?


Look at Zenichiro's earlier post where he can pull up the booking screen.


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> so, who has actually opted in today and been able to see/book MAX?



I clicked and did the opt in this morning, but it isn't showing anything different. The confirmation screen said that it will take 1-2 days to show up and I would get a confirmation email in 2-3 weeks.


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## Shmiddy (Oct 19, 2022)

We're headed to the Big Island next week, think I'll try the 'opt in' page and then see what I hear at the owner update. Will be interesting to see what they each say.


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## PigsDad (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It kind of looks like whoever has the link can do it. I would be worried that I would lose more than I would gain due to our many resale and EP.


I'm with you.  I'm EP w/ SW FL resales, and I'd be afraid that some or most of my points would not count toward Max levels, so my benefits would be severely cut.  But I don't see any opt in notifications, so I guess I don't have to worry about it!   

Kurt


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> ut I don't see any opt in notifications, so I guess I don't have to worry about it!


I clicked the link from TUG and then had to log in with my HGVC info. I could continue to the final click, which I did not do (still wondering about that $7K fee).


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## escanoe (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> Yes I've heard the same.  So essentially with a Glitch, I'd have to pay $92 extra for the difference of the Club Fees, and I'd have Max.  I'll see if it works for others first. lol


I would happily take that deal if I could. But I would not even think abt paying $7k to make the switch if I had the chance.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> I clicked the link from TUG and then had to log in with my HGVC info. I could continue to the final click, which I did not do (still wondering about that $7K fee).


I still think it would tell you that it will cost $7k. If it doesn't, then you should get an opportunity to opt out later if they want it.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I still think it would tell you that it will cost $7k. If it doesn't, then you should get an opportunity to opt out later if they want it.


It doesn’t


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> It doesn’t


exactly. They can't allow you to opt in without saying it will cost $7k.  Now, they could come back later and say it but they would need to offer an out.


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I still think it would tell you that it will cost $7k. If it doesn't, then you should get an opportunity to opt out later if they want it.


in theory, it does tell you in the fine print in the terms and conditions, listed as $7.000. So, by representing (by clicking yes) then you've read thru the 78 pages, you could be bound by this. Now, the $7.000=$7 is a good argument, and I don't think HGVC would enforce $7 much less $7K to someone who signed up because it was free. But, with 1 SW FL TS that we plan to use at least 1/2 the time, I don't have enough at stake to click the submit button and maybe buy a headache.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> in theory, it does tell you in the fine print in the terms and conditions, listed as $7.000. So, by representing (by clicking yes) then you've read thru the 78 pages, you could be bound by this. Now, the $7.000=$7 is a good argument, and I don't think HGVC would enforce $7 much less $7K to someone who signed up because it was free. But, with 1 SW FL TS that we plan to use at least 1/2 the time, I don't have enough at stake to click the submit button and maybe buy a headache.


but, the Opt In portion isn't on the reference guide, it is just that page with the Opt In button, right?  I haven't gone past the first page since I don't want to click Opt In being EP.

They would have to know that you read the reference guide before opting in.


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

you have to click yes for: Before completing this transaction and accepting this agreement, you must review the HGVClub Disclosure Statement available HERE. 
And the $7.000 is in the fine print: Persons who acquire HGV Max benefits through an Ala Carte enrollment shall be charged a one-time fee of $7.000


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> you have to click yes for: Before completing this transaction and accepting this agreement, you must review the HGVClub Disclosure Statement available HERE.
> And the $7.000 is in the fine print: Persons who acquire HGV Max benefits through an Ala Carte enrollment shall be charged a one-time fee of $7.000


Oh .. That does sound like you could be charged $7k.....ugh...


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## elaine (Oct 19, 2022)

IMHO, HGVC is a decent company. I cannot imagine they'd hold someone to paying it vs. just disenrolling them in MAX. Plus, it's definitely got a decimal vs. comma.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

I would think trying to charge the $7,000 would fall under an unfair/deceptive trade practice. To hide a $7,000 fee in the fine print doesn't stand up to regulatory scrutiny. If they want to charge a $7,000 fee, it better be upfront and they really should be collecting it at the time of opt-in.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I would think trying to charge the $7,000 would fall under an unfair/deceptive trade practice. To hide a $7,000 fee in the fine print doesn't stand up to regulatory scrutiny.



Agreed. I would think they would actually charge you at the time of acceptance or at least would try and make financial arrangements with you for the $7k. i do think they’ll tack on the difference in club fees in the annual statement. 

I still believe this is clearly a glitch where some people are allowed to opt in inadvertently. It’s allowing me the option to opt in, and I shouldn’t have this option without paying up for it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HuskerATL (Oct 19, 2022)

elaine said:


> And the $7.000 is in the fine print: Persons who acquire HGV Max benefits through an Ala Carte enrollment shall be charged a one-time fee of $7.000


Wait, is this in the final page of the opt in or is that the one in the reference guide? If just the reference guide, then I would be less worried.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> Agreed. I would think they would actually charge you at the time of acceptance or at least would try and make financial arrangements with you for the $7k. i do think they’ll tack on the difference in club fees in the annual statement.
> 
> I still believe this is clearly a glitch where some people are allowed to opt in inadvertently. It’s allowing me the option to opt in, and I shouldn’t have this option without paying up for it.
> 
> ...


Now what they could do for those that opt in and perhaps weren't elitible is to ask them to pay the $7,000 or remove them from HGV Max. Back when Marriott rolled out their program, they had a glitch that allowed people with ineligible resale weeks to still enroll (by paying the enrollment fee $1495-$1995), but the fee was well known. When they learned of the glitch, they said they would remove people that weren't eligible. That never happened.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Now what they could do for those that opt in and perhaps weren't elitible is to ask them to pay the $7,000 or remove them from HGV Max. Back when Marriott rolled out their program, they had a glitch that allowed people with ineligible resale weeks to still enroll (by paying the enrollment fee $1495-$1995), but the fee was well known. When they learned of the glitch, they said they would remove people that weren't eligible. That never happened.



Yep. Your correct. Maybe I’ll opt in and see what happens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> yes





dioxide45 said:


> Now what they could do for those that opt in and perhaps weren't elitible is to ask them to pay the $7,000 or remove them from HGV Max. Back when Marriott rolled out their program, they had a glitch that allowed people with ineligible resale weeks to still enroll (by paying the enrollment fee $1495-$1995), but the fee was well known. When they learned of the glitch, they said they would remove people that weren't eligible. That never happened.



 Well my account still doesn’t show Max. I just missed a call from someone in “corporate”. Maybe they’re going to ask for 7k


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## dioxide45 (Oct 19, 2022)

ksimm said:


> Well my account still doesn’t show Max. I just missed a call from someone in “corporate”. Maybe they’re going to ask for 7k


Maybe, or they are going to tell you that you aren't eligible. It seems odd that you have a1-2 days wait but @Zenichiro was given immediate access?


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 19, 2022)

Afilliate (Scotland or FL) vs. HGVC owned (Paradise)?


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## ksimm (Oct 19, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Maybe, or they are going to tell you that you aren't eligible. It seems odd that you have a1-2 days wait but @Zenichiro was given immediate access?



The call was unrelated. I have a VIP certificate and they want to do a pre-trip virtual presentation about Max.


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## ConejoRed (Oct 19, 2022)

I was able to Opt In via the link in the newsletter Email I received this morning.  All resale at affiliate resorts, Marbrisa (a Grand Pacific unit), Scotland (Craigendarroch Lodges) and Bay Club.  Made a point to save the terms and conditions document showing the 7.000 fee. Most of my resale contracts show the original owner contract date and not the date I bought them (none of them this year).  Will see what happens.  Not much of a risk for me as the no reservation fees will more than offset the higher club fees.

Will be interesting to see what they may or may not do with the Diamond Resorts week I own in Lake Tahoe (not converted to The Club). I use it to either stay there or their internal week Xchange system which gets me into the other Diamond resorts so if they void the Max enrollment, I will still have access anyway so no loss of as I see it. Certainly not paying $7,000 for access that I already have.


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## Great3 (Oct 20, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Maybe, or they are going to tell you that you aren't eligible. It seems odd that you have a1-2 days wait but @Zenichiro was given immediate access?





Zenichiro said:


> Said it will let me know in 1-2 business days. May be a glitch



If you read Zenichiro's previous post, he also had to wait 1-2 days as well, but appears he got access the very next day.  I think everybody got the same club traveler email, and the same link at the bottom.  So, I think they just inadvertently email everybody the link.  I don't think that club traveler email titled "Your Guide to Saving Your Club Points for Your Dream Trip" is customized for different folks.  At first, I didn't notice the opt-in link either, then went back after reading this TUGBBS posting, and see that link same opt-in link.  So, anybody can try to opt-in.  What HGVC does after that, verify eligibility or not, is a mystery at this point, but the process may just be automated as a batch run, so who knows what will happen in the future.

Let's see if we get more reports of people getting in, or if we get reports of people being denied, but the link is there, and I do think it's there for everyone, just most people will probably miss it just like I did initially.

Great3

ETA:  Look at the part below the blue greenish section that said HGV Max is Here / Learn more.  My eyes stopped scrolling after that section because I just assumed everything afterward is just fine print material after that, and the important parts of the newsletter is pretty much done by the time I scroll down that far; I actually didn't even scroll past that section initially.  But lo and behold, the juiciest bit with the Opt In link is below that section, so go take another look at your club traveler email.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Maybe, or they are going to tell you that you aren't eligible. It seems odd that you have a1-2 days wait but @Zenichiro was given immediate access?


My theory is, if you Opt in they have a monkey on the other side that is approving or denying based on the deed purchased. 
Monkey is approving when it shouldn’t rather than denying when it should.

Im sure we have all seen it in our own organizations where certain carts were pushed ahead of slow horses since they had roll out dates that had to be met {ie. $7.000 language not noticed, Monkey not noticed}

Obviously not enough testing went into the Opt in feature. It will either be overlooked or will have an “Oh crap” moment and mass pull back.


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## johnf0614 (Oct 20, 2022)

Great3 said:


> If you read Zenichiro's previous post, he also had to wait 1-2 days as well, but appears he got access the very next day.  I think everybody got the same club traveler email, and the same link at the bottom.  So, I think they just inadvertently email everybody the link.  I don't think that club traveler email titled "Your Guide to Saving Your Club Points for Your Dream Trip" is customized for different folks.  At first, I didn't notice the opt-in link either, then went back after reading this TUGBBS posting, and see that link same opt-in link.  So, anybody can try to opt-in.  What HGVC does after that, verify eligibility or not, is a mystery at this point, but the process may just be automated as a batch run, so who knows what will happen in the future.
> 
> Let's see if we get more reports of people getting in, or if we get reports of people being denied, but the link is there, and I do think it's there for everyone, just most people will probably miss it just like I did initially.
> 
> ...


I opted in last night, but still don't see any access.  It said 1-2 business days, so we'll see what happens this week.


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## elaine (Oct 20, 2022)

my 2021 resale deed date is 1986 in HGVC. If we're using our week at least EOY, I don't know that it's worth it to me, even for $7. What does 5000 (old) HGVC get my in MAX? Also, if I'm a SW FL affiliate, could I stop paying MAX fees and just be booted out in a couple years if I don't want to stay in MAX and just revert to using my week?


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## magmue (Oct 20, 2022)

> To hide a $7,000 fee in the fine print doesn't stand up to regulatory scrutiny


On page 45 of 78, no less.

After a discussion with DH, we opted in. We shall see.


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## Lodemia (Oct 20, 2022)

magmue said:


> After a discussion with DH, we opted in. We shall see.



Same - we went ahead and clicked.  All resale for us as well.


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## GT75 (Oct 20, 2022)

Lodemia said:


> Same - we went ahead and clicked. All resale for us as well.


Do you have any HGVC elite status?


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## magmue (Oct 20, 2022)

We are all resale, Kingsland and W 57th, so do not have any elite status. If we did, there would have been more pros and cons to weigh.

We also own a deeded week at P@P, purchased last spring, resale of course.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 20, 2022)

I picked the opt in option and got a call from Hilton saying you selected more Info.  I said NO just opted it.  

But I am not seeing what other posted saw.  I am still just getting regular HGVC options.


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## Lodemia (Oct 20, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Do you have any HGVC elite status?


Yes - Elite Premier from Scotland purchases.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> I picked the opt in option and got a call from Hilton saying you selected more Info.  I said NO just opted it.
> 
> But I am not seeing what other posted saw.  I am still just getting regular HGVC options.


Did you Opt in yesterday? Are you logging in on the app or web portal?


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## GT75 (Oct 20, 2022)

Lodemia said:


> Yes - Elite Premier from Scotland purchases.


Please report back if you make it into Max and Max elite level assigned.


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## ksimm (Oct 20, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Did you Opt in yesterday? Are you logging in on the app or web portal?



 Mine still just shows HGV Club Member on the app and no Max when logged into the web portal.

  I stated earlier that I had a call from HGV to talk about Max, but it was in reference to a VIP package that I bought earlier this year. Their confirmation email also referenced the lead # from that package so I'm assuming it was a coincidence, but a weirdly timed one..


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 20, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Did you Opt in yesterday? Are you logging in on the app or web portal?


website, NOT app.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> website, NOT app.


okay, reason I sak is I couldnt see Max on the App but noticed it first on the website. Now I see access on both


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## johnf0614 (Oct 20, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> okay, reason I sak is I couldnt see Max on the App but noticed it first on the website. Now I see access on both


I opted in late last night, and still can't see it in either place.


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## IAMBIGK (Oct 20, 2022)

All Resale / No Elite
Opted In...kind of scared now because I really don't want a bill for $7,000....$7 I can probably swing. LOL 
Are there any other downsides to Max? Will I still be able to book at HGVC Club Properties 9 Months Out? 
No change in portal yet. I will post again if anything changes.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

This person on Facebook posted some interesting things.


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 20, 2022)

IAMBIGK said:


> All Resale / No Elite
> Opted In...kind of scared now because I really don't want a bill for $7,000....$7 I can probably swing. LOL



"If it sounds too good to be true..."

It is amusing to see how much confidence is exhibited in the "7.000 is only $7" lore; when has three decimal places ever been used regarding dollars and cents? Some however, already have lawyers on retainer.

This is hardly an objective forum regarding this issue. Most everyone on the Hilton side here does nothing but bemoan the DRI acquisition and badmouth Max, and an equal amount of disdain is found among the Diamond cohort? Amidst this historic stock market downturn, some conjecture here has actually suggested $HLT "shareholders" are not happy about the DRI purchase and Max? Seriously?

The single most common POV among these threads appears to be a complete rejection of anything remotely resembling change, and requiring payment of some kind to access. On the other hand, "If I can get for (next to) nothing I'll opt in."  It likely costs at least $70 per account internally on the corporate side to simply implement the change-over to the new Max platform.

I'm sure to get some blowback on this, so be it, but the direction of some of these threads is just dizzying.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> "If it sounds too good to be true..."
> 
> It is amusing to see how much confidence is exhibited in the "7.000 is only $7" lore; when has three decimal places ever been used regarding dollars and cents? Some however, already have lawyers on retainer.
> 
> ...


I can see your point, to a degree. I don't think people hate Max, it is just that the cost vs benefit isn't there. $7,000 or buy more from HGV for 6 months access just isn't worth it. However $0 for 6 months access with nothing to lose is. HGV may catch on to this and put a stop to opt ins that aren't eligible. They may boot out those that opted in but technically shouldn't have, but I doubt anyone will get a bill for $7,000 or even $7.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> This person on Facebook posted some interesting things.


I fail to see anything new here? Am I missing something?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I fail to see anything new here? Am I missing something?


I attached two screen shots. Did they not show?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> I attached two screen shots. Did they not show?


I see them, but I am not sure what is new or different in them that hasn't already been reported here in the myriad of threads.


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## Nowaker (Oct 20, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> I picked the opt in option and got a call from Hilton saying you selected more Info. I said NO just opted it.



I opted in the evening yesterday. Received a call from HGVC around noon today. But I was playing flippers, so my wife answered, they said something about "you requested that we contact you", my wife said "you already called us two days ago", he said "oh, I have a file that I should call you but if all questions are answered, then thank you". She didn't know about HGV Max opt-in so she assumed it's about a $110 vacation package we got from HGVC a week ago, and which they called about 2 days ago. It's more likely it's about the vacation package because they called me 2 days ago, asked me to pick the date, to which I told them I would do it when I'm ready to do that, and thank you, and she kept talking but I hung up. Maybe they marked the call as "incomplete" and they called again  But we've yet to see if they process my Max opt-in (all resales, plus one HGVC UK purchased directly from them in Feb/Mar).


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## Zenichiro (Oct 20, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I see them, but I am not sure what is new or different in them that hasn't already been reported here in the myriad of threads.


Sorry it was meant as a reply to *IAMBIGK *


IAMBIGK said:


> All Resale / No Elite
> Opted In...kind of scared now because I really don't want a bill for $7,000....$7 I can probably swing. LOL
> Are there any other downsides to Max? Will I still be able to book at HGVC Club Properties 9 Months Out?
> No change in portal yet. I will post again if anything changes.


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## dayooper (Oct 20, 2022)

Looks like the glitch has been fixed. 2 people have reported back that instead of being enrolled, they had someone call them for info.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Looks like the glitch has been fixed. 2 people have reported back that instead of being enrolled, they had someone call them for info.


Yeah, but one person confirmed that the call was about a package and the other could also be about a package. I think people are still able to opt in through the glitch.


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## Duh (Oct 20, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Most everyone on the Hilton side here does nothing but bemoan the DRI acquisition and badmouth Max, and an equal amount of disdain is found among the Diamond cohort?



Yes.


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## natarajanv (Oct 20, 2022)

I opted in yesterday and got the call today about discussing opt-in. The rep looked at my account and said that only people who bought between Jan and April of this year are eligible to enroll and said it might have been a glitch. He then went on about buying a new deed to get into Max. I told him that I was not interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Msb1102 (Oct 20, 2022)

Data point:

Saw this post last night. Did it around 8:00 PM PDT and around 3:00 PM PDT today my HGVC app was updated. I had checked around noon and it wasn't.

My membership card in the app now says:

"Member BHC Legacy"

I did get a call today from HGVC but it was the Vegas 702 area code and as I have an upcoming stay with them so not surprised.

I'll take Max for $7.000(infinity). All of the Diamond resorts now show up for me in the app as well but the first two I see are Bell Rock and Kohls ranch and the pictures aren't that enticing. Truthfully, not many of them look HGVC quality.

All of my deeds are resale. Wouldn't be sad if I lost it or they took it back.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 20, 2022)

a rumor that I have heard is that if you join Max and then buy a resale, they will make you create a new account for it, pay separate club dues for it, and it would be a separate bucket of points...


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## drucifer (Oct 20, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> a rumor that I have heard is that if you join Max and then buy a resale, they will make you create a new account for it, pay separate club dues for it, and it would be a separate bucket of points...



Oh, I'd be pissed.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 20, 2022)

drucifer said:


> Oh, I'd be pissed.


It would be worth an email to HGV to find out if that is true


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## dayooper (Oct 20, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> "If it sounds too good to be true..."
> 
> It is amusing to see how much confidence is exhibited in the "7.000 is only $7" lore; when has three decimal places ever been used regarding dollars and cents? Some however, already have lawyers on retainer.
> 
> ...



I also feel the lack of transparency in the merger and how Max was rolled out was very off putting. The lies the salesman presented to get people to buy is ridiculous. From claiming the program will be all points with an outrageous yearly MF to creating flyers stating certain resorts will be available soon, the sales department has been reprehensible. The way DRI members have been treated is even worse. As said above, the cost of the a la cart offering is way higher than any other merger. The MVC/Vistana merger cost nothing for most members. I understand HGV needed to make money, but nothing about this merger has given any reason to trust upper management in this manner.


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## drucifer (Oct 20, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It would be worth an email to HGV to find out if that is true



I think it better just to buy a resale or two next year and roll the dice.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 21, 2022)

Msb1102 said:


> Data point:
> 
> Saw this post last night. Did it around 8:00 PM PDT and around 3:00 PM PDT today my HGVC app was updated. I had checked around noon and it wasn't.
> 
> ...


Yes look like I lost access with the update today. Like you said, not much of a loss either way.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 21, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Yes look like I lost access with the update today. Like you said, not much of a loss either way.


Interesting... So they booted folks who weren't supposed to get it. Did you book first?


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## Zenichiro (Oct 21, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Interesting... So they booted folks who weren't supposed to get it. Did you book first?


No there was nothing that I would be interested


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## johnf0614 (Oct 21, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Yes look like I lost access with the update today. Like you said, not much of a loss either way.


It was good while it lasted. haha


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## dayooper (Oct 21, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Yes look like I lost access with the update today. Like you said, not much of a loss either way.



Did you check the dues on the MF statement? Make sure they reversed the cost.


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## Lodemia (Oct 21, 2022)

I am all for getting in on a technicality, but I don't feel like I lost anything either way.  I have two resales that haven't cleared my account yet, so don't want to mess those up.


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## Lodemia (Oct 21, 2022)

Does the opt-in link still show for everyone?


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## dayooper (Oct 21, 2022)

How can a huge organization be so inept in rolling this out? I know it's been said before, but this just feels like they are making this up as they go. It seems like there's no planning on making this merger smooth, just scheming to make money. It feels like there's a group on the board that is just pushing to make money now and punt on future customer satisfaction. How can you not have a mechanism for determining who can join or not before you release the update. This reeks of small, immediate profit over long term growth and customer satisfaction. I know it's a companies job to make money, I'm all for that. This just seems so forced and no care in the world for even a couple of years down the road. It's almost like a group of investors or maybe even a private equity firm has more control over these decisions than we think they should. 

I currently love the product. Every time I go to a resort, my family and I have a great time. The accommodations are great and we love the locations we travel to. We have not been disappointed once on our trips. With that being said, I could never think of purchasing from HGV directly right now. I would be afraid of losing what I bought. We spent a decent chunk of change on our resale deeds, but have got the worth back from them. If (and that's a big if) I were to purchase from a developer, I believe it would be MVC points. I know they aren't perfect (their dealings with Hyatt are atrocious), but their path forward seems much more laid out and stable than HGV right now. Hopefully HGV will find it's path and things will be fine. I truly hope so as the product is currently fantastic.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Did you check the dues on the MF statement? Make sure they reversed the cost.


No cost that I saw


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## dioxide45 (Oct 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> Did you check the dues on the MF statement? Make sure they reversed the cost.


According to this post, the Club Fee was never adjusted up to the $291. So nothing to reverse.








						Opt-in Window for HGV Max
					

It works  so you can book in HVC now?




					tugbbs.com


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## ksimm (Oct 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I currently love the product. Every time I go to a resort, my family and I have a great time. The accommodations are great and we love the locations we travel to. We have not been disappointed once on our trips. With that being said, I could never think of purchasing from HGV directly right now. I would be afraid of losing what I bought. We spent a decent chunk of change on our resale deeds, but have got the worth back from them. If (and that's a big if) I were to purchase from a developer, I believe it would be MVC points. I know they aren't perfect (their dealings with Hyatt are atrocious), but their path forward seems much more laid out and stable than HGV right now. Hopefully HGV will find it's path and things will be fine. I truly hope so as the product is currently fantastic.



I'm a really new member of HGV but I did months of research before I bought resale. The Max thing isn't overly appealing for the new properties yet, but if they truly bring them all up to standard in the next 4-5 years, I would be willing to "buy in" to get Max (the free booking fees offset the increased cost). But, the only way I would buy in is if they charged me the rumored $7,000.00 and bring my resale(s) into Max, and even then I'd have to think about it.

  There's no way I'd spend 10-20k to get 2000 or something points that would be in Max while leaving my resale in the cold...


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 21, 2022)

Well said @dayooper. We need clear communications instead of creating fear uncertainty and doubt - which makes me say, "Do not buy any more with HGV/Max until I know how it works in writing from the corporate offices (not sales)."

Owners are smarter (sales, you can fool me once) and want clear written rules and expectations. I am open to buying an upgrade to Max in the future and was somewhat excited but have been disappointed by the lack of formal communication and changing story which is very uncharacteristic of HGVC management. If DRI management is influencing the culture and board to act as they have this past year, this makes me scared to buy more.

Although MVC took 4 long years, I have an email in writing as to how my current mandatory resale is managed, I am actually considering more of their product because I know the rules in writing and where the pitfalls lie. I know there are pitfalls with MAX (nothing is perfect) but without knowing where those pitfalls exist and exactly what I give up by joining Max as an Elite, I cannot justify spending more money.

Bottom line: HVC's lack of written communication with owners has been out of character and they have nothing to sell until they put a program in writing.


----------



## Great3 (Oct 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> How can a huge organization be so inept in rolling this out? I know it's been said before, but this just feels like they are making this up as they go. It seems like there's no planning on making this merger smooth, just scheming to make money. It feels like there's a group on the board that is just pushing to make money now and punt on future customer satisfaction. How can you not have a mechanism for determining who can join or not before you release the update. This reeks of small, immediate profit over long term growth and customer satisfaction. I know it's a companies job to make money, I'm all for that. This just seems so forced and no care in the world for even a couple of years down the road. It's almost like a group of investors or maybe even a private equity firm has more control over these decisions than we think they should.
> 
> I currently love the product. Every time I go to a resort, my family and I have a great time. The accommodations are great and we love the locations we travel to. We have not been disappointed once on our trips. With that being said, I could never think of purchasing from HGV directly right now. I would be afraid of losing what I bought. We spent a decent chunk of change on our resale deeds, but have got the worth back from them. If (and that's a big if) I were to purchase from a developer, I believe it would be MVC points. I know they aren't perfect (their dealings with Hyatt are atrocious), but their path forward seems much more laid out and stable than HGV right now. Hopefully HGV will find it's path and things will be fine. I truly hope so as the product is currently fantastic.



LOL, everybody OPT-IN into getting a phone call from HGVC Sales Team to upgrade them to HGV Max.  No, I don't think those that aren't eligible should be let in, but if some slip thru the cracks, congrats to them.  It's their product, so HGVC gets to make their own rules, after all, even if we don't like the rules.  However, a simple email or phone call that says sorry, you aren't eligible, we goofed, we shouldn't have let you Opt-In, would have been enough.  Instead, I read people getting phone calls from Sales, so the OPT-IN certainly isn't handled properly, which is what makes it's kinda bit crazy for such a big corporation.

Great3


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## BingoBangoBongo (Oct 21, 2022)

I think the company still has a lot of work to do at many of these locations to bring them up to a level where I would want to book a stay.  I've have plenty of points (have actually booked all my 2023 points already) and many existing HGVC locations that we still have not explored.  I don't pay reservation fees due to the bHC deed I own and generally can plan far enough ahead that I don't feel threatened by the Max 6 month window.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 21, 2022)

dayooper said:


> How can a huge organization be so inept in rolling this out? I know it's been said before, but this just feels like they are making this up as they go. It seems like there's no planning on making this merger smooth, just scheming to make money. It feels like there's a group on the board that is just pushing to make money now and punt on future customer satisfaction. How can you not have a mechanism for determining who can join or not before you release the update. This reeks of small, immediate profit over long term growth and customer satisfaction. I know it's a companies job to make money, I'm all for that. This just seems so forced and no care in the world for even a couple of years down the road. It's almost like a group of investors or maybe even a private equity firm has more control over these decisions than we think they should.
> 
> I currently love the product. Every time I go to a resort, my family and I have a great time. The accommodations are great and we love the locations we travel to. We have not been disappointed once on our trips. With that being said, I could never think of purchasing from HGV directly right now. I would be afraid of losing what I bought. We spent a decent chunk of change on our resale deeds, but have got the worth back from them. If (and that's a big if) I were to purchase from a developer, I believe it would be MVC points. I know they aren't perfect (their dealings with Hyatt are atrocious), but their path forward seems much more laid out and stable than HGV right now. Hopefully HGV will find it's path and things will be fine. I truly hope so as the product is currently fantastic.


I think Apollo is pushing them.


----------



## HuskerATL (Oct 21, 2022)

johnf0614 said:


> It was good while it lasted. haha


The link does still open and go to the form but not sure what happens after that. I am not interested in losing our EP to get access to HVC.


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## dayooper (Oct 21, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I think Apollo is pushing them.



As do I.


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## pedro47 (Oct 21, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I think Apollo is pushing them.


I agree with you 100%


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## magmue (Oct 21, 2022)

> ook like I lost access with the update today.


I also notice the the Traveler newsletter that contains the "Opt in to Max" link at the bottom was resent today. I bet the link result has been revised.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 21, 2022)

Certainly the HGV Max program seems to have been rushed to market. Marriott has taken years, of course the pandemic may have impacted that. However, I think Marriott is offering a much more cohesive product for easier cross bookings for owners. Each method has its plusses and minuses. HGV is doing more to protect the deeded owner rights where some things within the Marriott points program give the impression that some owner rights are being removed or stepped on by points.

The merger between Marriott and Vistana seems to be providing something for every owner in the system. It won't work for everyone, but every can take advantage of the new properties available to them for no cost. HGVC took the approach to block out even those people that purchased direct from them in the past. I don't think that is the way to go about it. I can understand locking out resale buyers, but locking out people that already paid you tens of thousands just because of some arbitrary date? That doesn't seem right. They are looking at this as a way to boost short term sales by trying to sell again to those that already own.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 21, 2022)

magmue said:


> I also notice the the Traveler newsletter that contains the "Opt in to Max" link at the bottom was resent today. I bet the link result has been revised.



I never received either newsletter...


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 21, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The merger between Marriott and Vistana seems to be providing something for every owner in the system. It won't work for everyone, but every can take advantage of the new properties available to them for no cost. HGVC took the approach to block out even those people that purchased direct from them in the past. I don't think that is the way to go about it. I can understand locking out resale buyers, but locking out people that already paid you tens of thousands just because of some arbitrary date? That doesn't seem right. They are looking at this as a way to boost short term sales by trying to sell again to those that already own.



Good summary. I've seen a statistic that 60% of MVC sales are to existing owners so they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.

I am not sure of the mix of HGVC / DRI owner sales vs. new buyers. Sadly, these inconsistent policies and the lack of communication are turning owners away from MAX sales so it is backfiring on them.


----------



## PigsDad (Oct 21, 2022)

Great3 said:


> LOL, everybody OPT-IN into getting a phone call from HGVC Sales Team to upgrade them to HGV Max.  No, I don't think those that aren't eligible should be let in.  It's their product, so HGVC gets to make their own rules, after all, even if we don't like the ruls.  However, a simple email or phone call that says sorry, you aren't eligible, we goofed, we shouldn't have let you Opt-In, would have been enough.  Instead, I read people getting phone calls from Sales, *so the OPT-IN certainly isn't handled properly, which is what makes it's kinda bit crazy for such a big corporation*.


Am I the only one who is thinking this was not a goof, but fully planned by HGV?  Think about it:  Someone who otherwise is not eligible for Max gets excited when they think they are eligible.  Then while that person is still excited about having access to additional resorts, no booking fees, etc., Boom!  A salesperson pounces on them with "an offer they can't refuse".  Seems pretty savage to me.

Kurt


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## dayooper (Oct 21, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Am I the only one who is thinking this was not a goof, but fully planned by HGV?  Think about it:  Someone who otherwise is not eligible for Max gets excited when they think they are eligible.  Then while that person is still excited about having access to additional resorts, no booking fees, etc., Boom!  A salesperson pounces on them with "an offer they can't refuse".  Seems pretty savage to me.
> 
> Kurt



Before they pulled the link, I was thinking it could have been on purpose. I'm not sure how the sales of Max are going (we will find out more on the 3rd quarter investors call), but I would guess that those that are going to buy already bought.

I think that the $7000 opt in fee is a sham that will never go into effect. I think it was there to convince those on the fence to buy now. They can convince a potential buyer that they can sell them more points for just a few thousand more than the $7000 opt in fee. It is incredibly high and I have a hard time seeing anybody paying that. There were so many current owners that were ticked off that they had to purchase more to be part of Max. Then again, they convinced owners back in April to buy enough to get 100,000 points without even knowing what the program will be.


----------



## Cyberc (Oct 21, 2022)

So since I’m in Europe and pay $336 in club dues including AI I’m basically saving approx $45 a year   if I opt in that is


----------



## Talent312 (Oct 21, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Am I the only one who is thinking this was not a goof, but fully planned by HGV?  Think about it:  Someone who otherwise is not eligible for Max gets excited when they think they are eligible.  Then while that person is still excited about having access to additional resorts, no booking fees, etc., Boom!  A salesperson pounces on them with "an offer they can't refuse".  Seems pretty savage to me.



I concur. It's classic bait and switch.
Make folks think they pick it up easy-peasy, only to find themselves going down a rabbit-hole.
.


----------



## singlemalt_18 (Oct 21, 2022)

Talent312 said:


> I concur. It's classic bait and switch.
> Make folks think they pick it up easy-peasy, only to find themselves going down a rabbit-hole.
> .



An honest question for everyone here twisting themselves into knots...

If Hilton paid $1.6 billion for the DRI acquisition from Apollo, why would they give it to everyone - or anyone - for free?

Now I would never pay $7,000 to get NO POINTS. I did pay $16K for 4,000 additional regular points (which we could use!) to upgrade to HGV MAX as DRI Hawaii Trust owners. (We also received 5,000 bonus points good for the next two years.)

We have also been Marriot Bonvoy Platinum for years and have loved it, but there was NEVER any connection to our TS ownership with DRI. The ability to add HH into the mix of tools in our toolbelt seemed like a good idea, so that had some value in our eyes.

Going forward, DRI simply NO LONGER EXISTS. Whatever happens on that side over time will be subject to some type of natural atrophy. Why does nobody believe that those remaining in the old world may see surprising increases in MFs? Not EVERYTHING sales people say is necessarily an outright lie. DRI was a $1.6 billion company bought out by Hilton which has a $30 billion market cap; why as an owner would I NOT want to throw in with the new much higher capitalized owner? Many here think they know better than HLT management, but I'll place my bets on the Hilton Brand for the long run despite any bumps in the road during the transition. My take-away on the DRI side is that MANY outside of here are willing to go for the upgrade to HGV MAX.

On the Hilton side, everyone is focused on the 6 month booking window. For us, this is a non issue. We almost NEVER make plans more than 6 months out. The one time in the past 7 years we actually used our 13 month advantage, was the one time we had to cancel the October trip to P@P for our 25th anniversary during the pandemic; it was a scramble to rebook before year end and NOT loose half our points. (BTW - we eloped and stayed at the Hyatt in '95)

As for the new fee for "banking" points into the next year for Diamond owners, this too is not as seems on the surface. For anyone who regularly travels in October/November/December, under the old Diamond rules, if you actually needed to cancel - and had NO ability to reschedule - you would loose half your points. There may be a small fee now, but you can save ALL points into the next year. So loose half or pay a small fee, is not necessarily and horrible thing.

We may never be searching out locations around the globe that would make the many Hilton additions a viable option, but we do think that we will see benefits moving forward by being a "participating" member of the new owner world Hilton is pursuing for all our domestic favorites... which happen to many of the DRI properties many here seem to think so little of.


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## drucifer (Oct 21, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Good summary. I've seen a statistic that 60% of MVC sales are to existing owners so they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
> 
> I am not sure of the mix of HGVC / DRI owner sales vs. new buyers. Sadly, these inconsistent policies and the lack of communication are turning owners away from MAX sales so it is backfiring on them.



I was told that just over 70% of HGVC sales were to existing owners, though that number seems staggering.  I'm sure there are some who are uncomfortable not buying direct from the developer or without a broker and closing attorney holding their hand every step of the way like a traditional residential or commercial transaction would have.


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## dandjane1 (Oct 22, 2022)

*Check the "Club Rules" in HGV - you'll find some weird stuff that's probably illegal in some states, e.g. 
at Hilton's discretion, the NIGHTLY POINTS VALUES can be adjusted at will! Also, they (HGV properties) use a 7-
night week consisting of Four (4) weekday nights and THREE (3) weekend nights! In my experience, Sunday nights 
have always been at the weekday, not the weekend, rate. This makes stays more expensive. What with the many
carve-outs for select Hilton resorts, the HGV membership is not attractive at all, and when the nickel-and-dime
fees are met everywhere, it's a bad deal for DRI owners.*


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 22, 2022)

dandjane1 said:


> *Check the "Club Rules" in HGV - you'll find some weird stuff that's probably illegal in some states, e.g.
> at Hilton's discretion, ...Also, they (HGV properties) use a 7-
> night week consisting of Four (4) weekday nights and THREE (3) weekend nights! In my experience, Sunday nights
> have always been at the weekday, not the weekend, rate. This makes stays more expensive. What with the many
> ...



re: changing the nightly points values. They periodically offer discounted points sales as just shared in another thread today. Perhaps this is what it is about? 

The 3 weekend nights have always been there AFAIK in HGVC. Perhaps they are now applying this to HVC?


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## dayooper (Oct 22, 2022)

dandjane1 said:


> *Check the "Club Rules" in HGV - you'll find some weird stuff that's probably illegal in some states, e.g.
> at Hilton's discretion, the NIGHTLY POINTS VALUES can be adjusted at will! Also, they (HGV properties) use a 7-
> night week consisting of Four (4) weekday nights and THREE (3) weekend nights! In my experience, Sunday nights
> have always been at the weekday, not the weekend, rate. This makes stays more expensive. What with the many
> ...



Yup, HGVC point charts have always been that way. As @CalGalTraveler says above, maybe that are changing the charts for HGV Max owners from the HGVC side. Are the point changes for DRI reservations?


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## Nowaker (Oct 22, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> DRI was a $1.6 billion company bought out by Hilton which has a $30 billion market cap; why as an owner would I NOT want to throw in with the new much higher capitalized owner?



What are you even talking about? Buying into HGV Max is not equal to acquiring shares or something. "Throwing in" to a new much higher capitalized owner gives you ZERO. Google is well capitalized too - so go pay them for something just because.

Units are independently owned by us owners anyway. We're on the hook for management fees. We benefit exactly zero from their holdings. HGVC is our service provider.



singlemalt_18 said:


> Many here think they know better than HLT management, but I'll place my bets on the Hilton Brand for the long run despite any bumps in the road during the transition.



I agree, HGVC has a pretty good track record.




dandjane1 said:


> you'll find some weird stuff that's probably illegal in some states, e.g. at Hilton's discretion, the NIGHTLY POINTS VALUES can be adjusted at will!



They wouldn't be able to adjust the point values by the factor of 1.6x, would they? Numbers are just numbers, and for flexibility reasons, the points aren't specified on deeds. But what you get for your ownership (the buying power, so to speak) still stays the same.


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## Duh (Oct 22, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> re: changing the nightly points values. They periodically offer discounted points sales as just shared in another thread today. Perhaps this is what it is about?
> 
> The 3 weekend nights have always been there AFAIK in HGVC. Perhaps they are now applying this to HVC?



If they do they are going to piss off a LOT of Diamond folk. We have always had a 2 night minimum stay.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 22, 2022)

@Duh I am not sure they are requiring 3 night stay, just requiring weekend points for Sunday night. FYI...HGVC has always had a 3 night minimum stay with the exception of bHC properties which are 1 night. Last minute cash stays "Open Season" are 2 night minimum. Wish HGVC Club would have a 2 night minimum...


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## youppi (Oct 22, 2022)

The booking window with HGVC is it still based on the checkout date?
The booking window with HVC (former DRI) is based on the checkin date (much better to book multiple weeks when the window opens).
For HGV Max booking window (at 6 months), is it based on the checkin or checkout date or both depending if it's a HGVC or HVC resort ?


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 22, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> What are you even talking about? Buying into HGV Max is not equal to acquiring shares or something. "Throwing in" to a new much higher capitalized owner gives you ZERO. Google is well capitalized too - so go pay them for something just because.



That's a total misunderstanding of the point I was making. I'm not implying any sort of equity or value other than having more confidence in a multi-national, world recognized brand and multi-$billion company running things versus a hedge fund. If DRI was taken over by a Nowaker Inc Holdings, I would have no reason for confidence in the direction of things to come.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 22, 2022)

youppi said:


> The booking window with HGVC is it still based on the checkout date?
> The booking window with HVC (former DRI) is based on the checkin date (much better to book multiple weeks when the window opens).
> For HGV Max booking window (at 6 months), is it based on the checkin or checkout date or both depending if it's a HGVC or HVC resort ?



Yes, HGVC check out date. Check out avoids abuses by big points holders and mega renters where owners book multiple high season weeks at 13 months and it locks out others. I have heard that MVC sometimes has this issue.

Max checkin or checkout? I don't know. Also wonder if it would be different depending on whether you own DRI MAX or HGVC Max?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 23, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> DRI was a $1.6 billion company bought out by Hilton which has a $30 billion market cap


The Hilton hotel company may have a $30 billion market cap, not HGV. It is just a little over $4 billion WITH Diamond.


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## Talent312 (Oct 23, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> If DRI was taken over by a Nowaker Inc Holdings, I would have no reason for confidence in the direction of things to come.



Is Nowaker Inc Holdings publicly traded?


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## jehb2 (Oct 23, 2022)

Well, I’m late to this conversation but am now caught up.  There still seems to be a number of unanswered questions.  I just did an overview of the timeshares in the Diamond Resorts collection.  I realized I have stayed at 3 of the resorts in the past.  Two in Maui which were only okay, and one in Vancouver which I actually liked a lot.

If they made Opting In 100% Free and did NOT increase my Club dues, then I might join. Otherwise “Nah, Nah, Honey I’m good.”


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 23, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> The Hilton hotel company may have a $30 billion market cap, not HGV. It is just a little over $4 billion WITH Diamond.



Never said that? But thanks?

Pepsi is $230 billion MC, and Quaker Oats is only a part of that too, but its still part of Pepsi.
Apollo is also a $30 billion conglomerate type hedge fund, but they had no other material presence in Leisure, Hospitality and Lodging.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 23, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Never said that? But thanks?
> 
> Pepsi is $230 billion MC, and Quaker Oats is only a part of that too, but its still part of Pepsi.
> Apollo is also a $30 billion conglomerate type hedge fund, but they had no other material presence in Leisure, Hospitality and Lodging.


You most certainly did say that. You stated that that Hilton *Worldwide Holdings*, the hotel company (valued at $30 billion), bought out Diamond Resorts. They did not do that. You seem confused between Hilton Grand Vacations and Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc. THey are two separate publicly traded companies. The comparison to Pepsico isn't the same at all. You're welcome.

Hilton Grand Vacations was probably only valued at around $2.5-$3 billion when it bought Diamond Resorts for $1.6 billon.


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## Talent312 (Oct 24, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> ... Not EVERYTHING sales people say is necessarily an outright lie.
> DRI was a $1.6 billion company bought out by Hilton which has *a $30 billion market cap*...[emphasis added]



Perhaps not an outright lie, but a misstatement of fact.
Hilton Grand Vacations, Inc.'s market cap as of 10/21/22 is $4.39B.
It hit a high-value on 1/03/22 of $6.52B and since retreated.
-- Source: macrotrends.net

Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. (NYSE:HGV) is the company that bought DRI.
-- Source: retuters.com


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## Zenichiro (Oct 24, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Never said that? But thanks?
> 
> Pepsi is $230 billion MC, and Quaker Oats is only a part of that too, but its still part of Pepsi.
> Apollo is also a $30 billion conglomerate type hedge fund, but they had no other material presence in Leisure, Hospitality and Lodging.


I think Apollo owns Great Wolf Lodge or has a large stake


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## tk25 (Oct 24, 2022)

I’m all resale HGVC owner with last purchase 2016-17.  Thus don’t qualify for any Premier or elite membership.
I Do not get any regular emails from Hilton grand vacations club other then  reservation confirmation emails.
After signing into my HGVC ACCOUNT I found The Club Traveler newsletter link under “club” at top of page.

The opt in link for MAX still works and I just submitted today.  My name, email and account number automatically prefilled.
I did not see anything about $7000 but did see an increase in my annual fee by less than $100.

I have 44,800 new Hilton Grand Vacation Club points and it will be interesting to see if I qualify for one of the new max tier premier level.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

tk25 said:


> I’m all resale HGVC owner with last purchase 2016-17.  Thus don’t qualify for any Premier or elite membership.
> I Do not get any regular emails from Hilton grand vacations club other then  reservation confirmation emails.
> After signing into my HGVC ACCOUNT I found The Club Traveler newsletter link under “club” at top of page.
> 
> ...


Let us know what happens.


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## Cyberc (Oct 24, 2022)

I can’t remember if this has been brought up already, but I’m an Elite member(lowest tier) if I opt in and get Max will I lose my elite benefits or will I keep them?


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

Cyberc said:


> I can’t remember if this has been brought up already, but I’m an Elite member(lowest tier) if I opt in and get Max will I lose my elite benefits or will I keep them?


You may lose any points that are from resale. You don't lose them but they won't be available in Max for HVC reservations but will be available in HGVC like before. You will probably only be member tier in Max unless you have retail weeks so you may lose your elite status.


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## dayooper (Oct 24, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> You may lose any points that are from resale. *You don't lose them but they won't be available in Max for HVC reservations but will be available in HGVC like before*. You will probably only be member tier in Max unless you have retail weeks so you may lose your elite status.



Unless they recently changed the rules, I'm not sure if this is correct. I thought I read in the Max rules that can use resale points in Max, they just don't count toward and Premier status. Again, I could be very wrong here.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

Cyberc said:


> I can’t remember if this has been brought up already, but I’m an Elite member(lowest tier) if I opt in and get Max will I lose my elite benefits or will I keep them?


A person on FB said that when they moved from HGVC to Max, they had about 80k points but of those 20k were resale.  The 60k went over to Max so she is Premier + but the other 20k stayed in the HGVC side so they have 80k to spend in HGVC with 60k available for HVC. Just to add, she may be misunderstanding and actually have all 80k to spend but only the 60k count in the Tiers.  I am not sure how that would work there.  I would think that if they are available in Max to spend, then they would count toward Tier status.  We need a better example of someone who went down a level from Elite to Max Tier. In her example, she was EP before and Premier + now because she still had enough retail points so nothing would have changed even with the resale points.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

dayooper said:


> I thought I read in the Max rules that can use resale points in Max


where did you read that?  I have not seen this stated officially and I am just going off what others have stated about their situation like the one that I outlined above.


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## tk25 (Oct 24, 2022)

Just got a call from Hilton corporate in Orlando and it basically was a sales pitch and saying that I’m not eligible for MAX unless I bought retail. I don’t think they know or if they do they’re playing dumb about the OPT IN LINK in their Most recent club newsletter on the owner part of their HGVC website.  Or maybe it is just an inquiry request.   Very poorly worded, deceptive and dubious.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

tk25 said:


> Just got a call from Hilton corporate in Orlando and it basically was a sales pitch and saying that I’m not eligible for MAX unless I bought retail. I don’t think they know or if they do they’re playing dumb about the OPT IN LINK in their Most recent club newsletter on the owner part of their HGVC website.  Or maybe it is just an inquiry request.   Very poorly worded, deceptive and dubious.


did you opt in via that link?  If so, it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.


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## tk25 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yes I did opt in via the Max enrollment link not from getting email but by accessing the club newsletter on HGVC website after signing in.

checked all the boxes, electronically signed and agreed to the terms including agreeing to “enrollment in HGV MAX is a final transaction and may not be reversed”

I did not just sign an info inquiry but irreversibly opted in to Max.
The just received corporate HGVC phone call was clueless and non responsive.  I told Hilton grand vacations club that I opted in to MAX through their website and they told me if I have any more questions call customer service and then also got a follow up email from the same person basically trying to sell.


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## tk25 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yes I did opt in via the Max enrollment link not from getting email but by accessing the club newsletter on HGVC website after signing in.

checked all the boxes, electronically signed and agreed to the terms including agreeing to “enrollment in HGV MAX is a final transaction and may not be reversed”

I did not just sign an info inquiry but irreversibly opted in to Max.
The just received corporate HGVC phone call was clueless and non responsive.  I told Hilton grand vacations club that I opted in to MAX through their website and they told me if I have any more questions call customer service and then also got a follow up email from the same person basically trying to sell.

She kept asking if my Hilton grand vacation club properties were resale and I didn’t answer her and I just said I didn’t wanna buy anymore.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

tk25 said:


> The just received corporate HGVC phone call was clueless and non responsive


Probably unrelated to the Opt In...


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## tk25 (Oct 24, 2022)

No it was clear to me that the phone call was directly 100 % related to my opt in submission on their website.  In fact the corporate executive sales person started the phone call by acknowledging my just done online submission “requesting info” Or something like that.  I did not request any info anytime otherwise.
There was no apology or recognition that their opt in website link clearly was flawed and inconsistent to many other published areas on their website.

There certainly is an issue here and perhaps ultimately a legal one.

I have paperwork that I irreversibly have joined HGV max not just requesting info.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

tk25 said:


> online submission “requesting info”


I have requested Max info via the normal inquiry links on the HGV portal (3 times) and the link in the Traveler where you can opt in or ask for info and have never gotten contacted.


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## Great3 (Oct 24, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I have requested Max info via the normal inquiry links on the HGV portal (3 times) and the link in the Traveler where you can opt in or ask for info and have never gotten contacted.



Don't request more info, Opt-In, and you will get a phone call from Sales! 

Great3


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

Great3 said:


> Don't request more info, Opt-In, and you will get a phone call from Sales





My luck, I would get in, lose our EP status, and be a member tier in Max with only our one retail ownership worth of points.


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## Great3 (Oct 24, 2022)

tk25 said:


> No it was clear to me that the phone call was directly 100 % related to my opt in submission on their website.  In fact the corporate executive sales person started the phone call by acknowledging my just done online submission “requesting info” Or something like that.  I did not request any info anytime otherwise.
> There was no apology or recognition that their opt in website link clearly was flawed and inconsistent to many other published areas on their website.
> 
> There certainly is an issue here and perhaps ultimately a legal one.
> ...



Yes, it just kinda rubs you the wrong way.  Like I said before, I understand if not eligible, to simply say sorry, we goofed, and just end it like that.  Instead, HGVC just pretends that you asked to be contacted to be upgraded to Max thru their Sales team.  That's what I mean that everybody is OPT'ing-IN for a Sales phone call, which is understandably what happens when you aren't eligible, I don't expect anything else to happen, but it's crazy to say you wanted a phone call from our Sales team to begin with.



tk25 said:


> The opt in link for MAX still works and I just submitted today.  My name, email and account number automatically prefilled.
> I did not see anything about $7000 but did see an increase in my annual fee by less than $100.



So, your HGV club dues actually went up already?

Great3


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## Great3 (Oct 24, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> My luck, I would get in, lose our EP status, and be a member tier in Max with only our one retail ownership worth of points.



I hear you and understand why you are hesitant, especially if you are already Elite in normal HGVC.  I only want HGV Max not for 6 months access to DRI properties, I just want the all-inclusive bookings for $291 club dues.  I wish that option was available, as I make 2-3 bookings per year usually, but at least 1.  I know I lose if only making a single club booking, but I average 2 or more each year.

I know I can get bHC for AI bookings at a higher club due than $291 than max, but if can slip thru the cracks, so be it.  If not, I get a Sales phone call, not a big deal!  Kinda makes me laugh though, just a little crazy how HGVC is handling the process.

Great3


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

Great3 said:


> all-inclusive bookings


Yes, we are Elite Premier so get unlimited free booking, saving, guest certs, any time conversion of HH of any amount, 30% discount on OS, room upgrades, $250 Lyft credit, etc.

I wouldn't risk losing these benefits for a few HVC properties.


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## JohnnieKay (Oct 24, 2022)

Hello, new owner and first time poster. 

I purchased direct from Hilton in Feb 2022. I received email notice on Oct 18, that i'm eligible to active HGV Max. Instead of activating, I requested someone to contact me to answer a few questions. Nobody has called, despite making a second request. Perhaps that is because there is no additional money to be made!? I honestly can't tell what fees if any I would be charged. I just want to confirm if it will be zero (which is what I believe), or if they will try to add the $199 new member activation fee or even worse the $7000. I also have no clue what "In network" and "Out of network" resort reservations are. What I like the least about the HGV Max rollout is that it appears that if you ever try to sell your timeshare, HGV Max will not transfer with your sale and it will become a HGVC timeshare again. So it really only makes sense to sign up for HGV Max if you intend to keep your timeshare for a long, long time.


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## GT75 (Oct 24, 2022)

Welcome to TUG.    You have asked some very good questions.  



JohnnieKay said:


> I just want to confirm if it will be zero (which is what I believe), or if they will try to add the $199 new member activation fee or even worse the $7000.


Well, it certainly won't be zero.   If you are in the HGV Max program, then club dues will be $291 instead of $199 which is normal HGVC club dues.   If you purchased HC then that will be different.  As for the other fees, we are exactly sure either.    That to me is the big problem with this rollout, eg. very unclear communications

Edit to add:   But there are also benefits with the HGV Max Club fee.


JohnnieKay said:


> I also have no clue what "In network" and "Out of network" resort reservations are.


I don't know what this means also


JohnnieKay said:


> What I like the least about the HGV Max rollout is that it appears that if you ever try to sell your timeshare, HGV Max will not transfer with your sale and it will become a HGVC timeshare again. So it really only makes sense to sign up for HGV Max if you intend to keep your timeshare for a long, long time.


Your statement is all true.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 24, 2022)

Out of network would be any -affiliate like Fiesta Americana Max still gets a booking fee.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 24, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Out of network would be any -affiliate like Fiesta Americana Max still gets a booking fee.


Maybe. I know EP can book there with no booking fee so you would think that Max could.


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## Zenichiro (Oct 25, 2022)

Just thought I’d mention the the Ala Carte fee was corrected on the 2022 club rules to $7,000


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## singlemalt_18 (Oct 25, 2022)

I was not aware of the spin-off from a few years back.  Pepsi is not likely to be spinning off Quaker as an independent company ant time soon


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## HuskerATL (Oct 25, 2022)

Zenichiro said:


> Just thought I’d mention the the Ala Carte fee was corrected on the 2022 club rules to $7,000


it has a comma now?  Interesting....I wonder how that message got through or they have been lurking...


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## Zenichiro (Oct 25, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> it has a comma now?  Interesting....I wonder how that message got through or they have been lurking...


My thoughts exactly


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## dayooper (Oct 25, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> it has a comma now?  Interesting....I wonder how that message got through or they have been lurking...



My guess is HGVC is lurking. They monitor the social media channels pretty regularly. When many people were openly selling their points via member to member on Facebook (not with GCs), they shut that down in a hurry. My guess is all of the talk on Facebook and here on TUG is what made them look at the loophole for the opt-in for Max.


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## HuskerATL (Oct 25, 2022)

dayooper said:


> My guess is HGVC is lurking. They monitor the social media channels pretty regularly. When many people were openly selling their points via member to member on Facebook (not with GCs), they shut that down in a hurry. My guess is all of the talk on Facebook and here on TUG is what made them look at the loophole for the opt-in for Max.


of all the things to fix, they fixed the comma....we can provide a nice list of higher priority fixes...


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 25, 2022)

dayooper said:


> My guess is HGVC is lurking. They monitor the social media channels pretty regularly. When many people were openly selling their points via member to member on Facebook (not with GCs), they shut that down in a hurry. My guess is all of the talk on Facebook and here on TUG is what made them look at the loophole for the opt-in for Max.



I consider these 3 proof points that HGVC is lurking here on public forums and of FB...not a coincidence.  It's free market research and they get free user testing to find all the loopholes in their system.


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## escanoe (Oct 25, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> it has a comma now?  Interesting....I wonder how that message got through or they have been lurking...



I personally hope they are lurking here and listening. There could be some downside to it, but overall their listening to customers is a good thing. I wish the heck RCI would listen to and learn from TUG users.


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## doublebullout (Nov 23, 2022)

Apologies, but we’re newbies to both HGV and TUG. For us and other less experienced folks who may also be struggling to understand, “activation” to HGV Max is still required if we bought retail earlier this year? It seemed clear to us when we purchased additional points that we would automatically be enrolled in Max when it became available. If that’s not the case and there’s an “activation” step required (e.g., “Only 2 Weeks Left to Activate Your HGV Max Membership” email), this was not mentioned during our owner update as far as I can recall.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 23, 2022)

doublebullout said:


> Apologies, but we’re newbies to both HGV and TUG. For us and other less experienced folks who may also be struggling to understand, “activation” to HGV Max is still required if we bought retail earlier this year? It seemed clear to us when we purchased additional points that we would automatically be enrolled in Max when it became available. If that’s not the case and there’s an “activation” step required (e.g., “Only 2 Weeks Left to Activate Your HGV Max Membership” email), this was not mentioned during our owner update as far as I can recall.


If you open the HGV portal and see the Max logo on the upper left hand side and can browse HVC properties, then you are in. If you don't, then you need to opt in. If you bought your deed between January 15th and April 3rd, then you need to opt in. If you bought after April 3rd, then you should automatically be in


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## dayooper (Nov 23, 2022)

doublebullout said:


> Apologies, but we’re newbies to both HGV and TUG. For us and other less experienced folks who may also be struggling to understand, “activation” to HGV Max is still required if we bought retail earlier this year? It seemed clear to us when we purchased additional points that we would automatically be enrolled in Max when it became available. If that’s not the case and there’s an “activation” step required (e.g., “Only 2 Weeks Left to Activate Your HGV Max Membership” email), this was not mentioned during our owner update as far as I can recall.



If you purchased April 4th or after, you were automatically enrolled into Max (you didn’t have a choice). If you purchased Jan 14th through April 3rd, you have the option of joining Max for free or staying a Legacy member.


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## doublebullout (Nov 23, 2022)

Thanks, that's crystal clear. Now trying to decide if HGV Max is worth the extra annual fee or not, but that's a separate topic.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 23, 2022)

doublebullout said:


> Thanks, that's crystal clear. Now trying to decide if HGV Max is worth the extra annual fee or not, but that's a separate topic.


Do you only have retail and don't plan to buy resale? If so, then I would do it. It gives you more options and no booking fees. If you are elite, then you will need to compare the tier benefits with the elite benefits. If you own resale or may buy some, then I would wait. If sounds like you will have separate point buckets for resale, that won't go in Max, and retail, that will


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## doublebullout (Nov 23, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Do you only have retail and don't plan to buy resale? If so, then I would do it. It gives you more options and no booking fees. If you are elite, then you will need to compare the tier benefits with the elite benefits. If you own resale or may buy some, then I would wait. If sounds like you will have separate point buckets for resale, that won't go in Max, and retail, that will


Only retail, and don't qualify for elite tiers at this time. (No plans to buy retail or resale in the future, either.) The benefits of Max at the lower HGVC member level seem to be solely the expanded property access.


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## HuskerATL (Nov 23, 2022)

doublebullout said:


> Only retail, and don't qualify for elite tiers at this time. (No plans to buy retail or resale in the future, either.) The benefits of Max at the lower HGVC member level seem to be solely the expanded property access.


Yes, you would get access to the HVC properties but also no booking fees. The no booking fees is a bigger perk than you think if you have points to play with. It allows you to buy and cancel at will, which we do a lot as we figure out our plans. We get that with Elite Premier so harder to move to Max for us


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## pedro47 (Nov 23, 2022)

Is the opt in fee still $7.000.00 ?


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## dayooper (Nov 23, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Is the opt in fee still $7.000.00 ?



They haven’t released that option yet. No timeline as to when. The opt in is for developer purchases made between Jan 14th and April 4th. Any developer purchase after that is automatically in Max. Any purchase before that needs a new developer purchase for Max membership.


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## pedro47 (Nov 23, 2022)

dayooper said:


> They haven’t released that option yet. No timeline as to when. The opt in is for developer purchases made between Jan 14th and April 4th. Any developer purchase after that is automatically in Max. Any purchase before that needs a new developer purchase for Max membership.


Thanks for a trueful answer.


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## flexonguy (Nov 30, 2022)

Here is what it states on page 21 of the disclosure form that is to be signed.

"Persons who acquire HGV Max benefits through an Ala Carte enrollment shall be charged a one-time fee of $7,000"

So as a member that owns three resale properties I am able to click on this link to sign up for MAX...is it worth it?  From what I get out of this forum is that I would not be able to use any of my points to book MAX properties since they are all resale.  Also, I run the risk of being billed $7,000 for nothing.  Correct? or has anyone else found out different???


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## flexonguy (Nov 30, 2022)

Only 6 more days left to sign up....


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## HuskerATL (Nov 30, 2022)

flexonguy said:


> Here is what it states on page 21 of the disclosure form that is to be signed.
> 
> "Persons who acquire HGV Max benefits through an Ala Carte enrollment shall be charged a one-time fee of $7,000"
> 
> So as a member that owns three resale properties I am able to click on this link to sign up for MAX...is it worth it?  From what I get out of this forum is that I would not be able to use any of my points to book MAX properties since they are all resale.  Also, I run the risk of being billed $7,000 for nothing.  Correct? or has anyone else found out different???


That is the story so far....


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## GT75 (Nov 30, 2022)

flexonguy said:


> So as a member that owns three resale properties I am able to click on this link to sign up for MAX...is it worth it?


If you are all resale, the posted rules are very clear.     You don't qualify.

from HGV Max FAQ


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