# Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?



## Dave M

Please vote.


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## andrea t

No, will not enroll.


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## Mamianka

Multi-week owners - have enrolled, but not yet traded for any points. Thinking it over -doing the math.


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## littlestar

No.  With us just owning one EOY year Marriott lockoff and owning other timeshares besides Marriott, I didn't want to have to pay for two II accounts.


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## capjak

Yes joined single week owner,


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## CMF

Is there an option to buy some points and not enroll your week(s)?

Charles


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## jimf41

CMF said:


> Is there an option to buy some points and not enroll your week(s)?
> 
> Charles



Charles,
I suppose you could do that but why would you? From what I understand they waive your enrollment fee, or at least the first $700 if you're a resale owner, when you buy the intro points package. You can't buy less than the current intro package offer the first time.

Even if they would sell you 1 BI (250 points), what would you do with that if you didn't have enrolled points to combine them?


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## jimf41

I joined and enrolled all weeks. So far I have made three reservations using the enrolled points at trust resorts without a problem. All my weeks were developer bought.


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## SueDonJ

I enrolled three (developer) weeks, have converted one for 2011 Points and have two reservations - 6 nights and 5 nights - with Points leftover for another few nights sometime.

The rollout was made more confusing than it needed to be by Marriott, IMO, but now that some time has passed and we're seeing it in action I'm pretty positive about how the DC will expand our options.  It's certainly easy to understand, though, why some will choose to not enroll - some Weeks just work better in the old system.


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## enma

No, I have 2 developer weeks, one that we use every year, one that we trade every year and one resale week that is not eligible for DVC points (bought after 06/30/10). I don't see the value joining right now for just one developer week since I can't enroll my resale week. If Marriott changes their rules re: resale weeks bought after 06/30 I'd thinking about joining.


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## wof45

we enrolled 5 weeks - 3 developer and 2 resale since our priorities have changed over the years.

we have another 5 weeks not with Marriott, and we may pick up another Marriott bargain week just so the other II membership gets back the Marriott owner bonus


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## TravlinDuo

We joined to reduce the fees we typically incurred.  However, we do not plan to convert our 4 weeks (3 w/lockoff) to points.


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## Big Matt

I voted no, but I would reconsider if they reduce/waive the enrollment fee or offer more than 800 points to join.  I'm breaking even on the fees savings after about 12 years not counting the time value of money.


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## DanCali

Multi-week owner will not join.

If the operator of this exchange was not named Marriott I believe that, given the merits alone, enrollment would be close to zero... I see no point in paying an outrageous enrollment fee to join an exchange that gives me the possibility of trading down only, without even having the ability to "request first"...


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## billymach4

*You really want to know?*

No !:annoyed:


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## bazzap

*Europe, Asia and US/Caribbean owners*

We could certainly see benefits in enrolling (without necessarily converting), if only the scheme really addressed owners like us of weeks in Europe and Asia as well as US/Caribbean.
PerryM has kindly demonstrated an advantage for us even just enrolling our US/Caribbean weeks, but this would be limited and we would still have to pay all our personal II account fees for managing our Europe and Asia resort weeks.  
Oh for a simple, global solution from Marriott - please.


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## davemy

Haved not joined, bought developer, most, if not all my trades over the years have been for larger units. Owning a lock off that you split all the time to larger units, i see no reason to join.


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## CMF

*Undecided*



jimf41 said:


> Charles,
> I suppose you could do that but why would you? From what I understand they waive your enrollment fee, or at least the first $700 if you're a resale owner, when you buy the intro points package. You can't buy less than the current intro package offer the first time.
> 
> Even if they would sell you 1 BI (250 points), what would you do with that if you didn't have enrolled points to combine them?



I have not given this detailed thought.  We have an encore presentation scheduled for August and they will apply the $2000 we paid for the encore program to our points purchase should we buy at that time. If we buy, I will enroll what weeks I can at no charge and buy maybe the minimum amount of points.  I will put it all under the magnifying glass as time nears.

My poll answer is UNDECIDED.

Charles


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## windje2000

*I'm probably joining*

Purely fees

Here's the fee comparison:

Year 1 - Continue with II

4 x $109 =  $436  in exchange fees

1 x $75   =    $75  in lockoff fees

1 x $89   =     $89 in membership


Total Year 1 cash outlay if I stay in II = $600


Year 1 - Enroll in DClub

1 x $695  = $695  Initiation Fee

1 x $199  =  $199 Membership fee

Total Year 1 cash outlay if I enroll = $894


Year 1 excess of Dclub over II = $294


But -- I get 800 pluspoints for that $294 which equals $0.368 per pluspoint.  That's within the range of what I believe one time use points are probably worth.  And assumes I can use them -- which I can.

(Change fees and other similar fees that are part of the bundled membership fee are not included as it is not certain they be incurred.  They would skew the calculation in my favor anyway.  I have not considered the II prepaid individual membership fee that I will get either refunded or an A/C.  That skews the other way.)

In year 2 if nothing changes I save $401.

So I pretty much break even instantly and look forward to fee savings of $400 per year.  And if necessary I can walk on day 2 and still be at least even.

I know I'm  giving my vote to Marriott in all matters involving DClub.  They can and will probably do whatever they want anyway, whether or not my vote is for them or against them.


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## IngridN

DH wants to join for the fee savings. We'll break even in 2 1/2 - 3 years and don't see ourselves trading in points, but will continue with weeks as we have been.

Ingrid


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## mwwich

Will not join.  We cannot get the value through DC with our Gold weeks that we've been getting through II by locking off and trading up.  Hope that doesn't change but time will tell.


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## billymach4

IngridN said:


> DH wants to join for the fee savings. We'll break even in 2 1/2 - 3 years and don't see ourselves trading in points, but will continue with weeks as we have been.
> 
> Ingrid




My advice to Hubby. In 3 years Marriott will raise fees, thus you will always be chasing the fee savings.


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## luvmypt

We only trade our weeks international and not domestic so there's no point in us joining.


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## winger

We enrolled into the new DC system mainly to:
1) keep our options open in the future (e.g. convert TS annual week use to DC pts, purchase/sell DC points, to-be-determined promotions, etc.) - sort of an 'insurance' to protect the value of our direct-developer purchased TS
and 
2) save on annual fees (II due, II exchange, TS annual week-to-MRP conversion, etc.).

BTW, I think we have already broken even on our enrollment fee through the reservation of five nightly stays (both Newport Coast Villas and Timber Lodge) use of our 800 Bonus Plus points and supplement points (purchased and gifted), about two years faster than initially anticipated, so the enrollment fee is now a mute point for us.


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## wof45

luvmypt said:


> We only trade our weeks international and not domestic so there's no point in us joining.



I would question this reason since membership includes II so you wouldn't pay that yearly, and you would also not pay an exchange fee.

Now, if you bought resale with the larger initiation fee, that would be another thing.  As we have gotten older, we first stopped international travel, except the Caribbean, then Hawaii, and this year to the West Coast, but you could be a lot younger than we are and not change your travel style for many years.


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## mas

The poll options right now, just looking at the numbers and not the comments, suggest a view that is more slanted toward a favorable opinion of the DC program than actually exists, IMHO.  I would be willing to guess that many of the enrollees don't plan to convert weeks to points, at least for now.

Another poll question would be: 
"Of those enrolled, do you plan to convert your week(s) for points?.. Yes or No?"


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## taffy19

billymach4 said:


> My advice to Hubby. In 3 years Marriott will raise fees, thus you will always be chasing the fee savings.


My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!

The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to?  They may change that too.


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## IngridN

billymach4 said:


> My advice to Hubby. In 3 years Marriott will raise fees, thus you will always be chasing the fee savings.



As long as it's less than $567 in today's dollars, we're good  .

Ingrid


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## IngridN

iconnections said:


> My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!
> 
> The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to?  They may change that too.



Other than the voting thing, there are no restrictions.

I'm not worried about the ability to opt out...it is an exchange company after all.

Ingrid


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## DanCali

IngridN said:


> Other than the voting thing, there are no restrictions.
> 
> I'm not worried about the ability to opt out...it is an exchange company after all.
> 
> Ingrid



Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.


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## IngridN

DanCali said:


> Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.
> 
> It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.



I dislike the new program as much as you do, however, given my situation, it makes sense to join. As I mentioned earlier, I have no intention to utilize the points as it makes no sense for us at this time. If our travel habits change, perhaps in the future. 

However, the $ savings are real and we intend to take advantage of them for as long as it works in our favor. Once it ceases to work to our advantage, I'll opt out. And if as you say (and I suspect you are correct), Marriott will take away the ability to deposit the week reserved, we will most likely opt out of the program at that time. I did the math again just to make sure I recalled correctly, and we currently spend $556 per year + any flex upgrades which can add another $218...for us, it makes sense to join.

Ingrid


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## mpizza

I have joined, own 1 developer and 4 resales.

I am actually using the recent changes to simplify and restructure my timeshare portfolio.  I am divesting my RCI membership (weeks and points).  I had previously utilized my RCI points account for shorter stays and can now use Marriott.  The RCI weeks changes now make it impossible to get the trades I previously received, at least with Marriott there is the opportunity to still trade week for week.

Maria


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## windje2000

DanCali said:


> Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... *If something sounds too good, it is.*
> 
> *It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.*



It is too good to be permanently true - Marriott is buying members with a loss leading fee structure in the hope of broadening and deepening inventory availability for Trust members and owners.  In my situation I'll likely save a few nickels before they re-up the prices.

Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub.  Own where you vacation . . .

Too bad the poll doesn't go further and 

1.  ask whether or not the weeks are developer or resale, and 

2.  ask about likelihood of point election.


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## wof45

windje2000 said:


> It is too good to be permanently true - Marriott is buying members with a loss leading fee structure in the hope of broadening and deepening inventory availability for Trust members and owners.  In my situation I'll likely save a few nickels before they re-up the prices.
> 
> Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub.  Own where you vacation . . .



IMHO, I do not think this is a loss leading fee structure.  It is certainly cheaper than the II structure, but Marriott could handle it through site automation (hopefully) or else by using a bulk purchase agreement with II.  I think the bulk purchase agreement is more likely since II would offer discounts to Marriott to keep the business in these bad times, and we have all been paying retail rates to II.


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## wof45

DanCali said:


> It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.



Marriott can certainly change the rules at their discretion.  But this process currently follows the rules.

Since you need to deposit a valid reservation, that deposit is Marriott's chance to exchange the week you deposit for another equal week in II -- and you shouldn't care.  But the week you deposited could become available to DC for points reservations and never make it into II on-line inventory.


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## SueDonJ

DanCali said:


> Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.
> 
> It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.



But any negative effects the DC might have on the existing II system will apply to Weeks whether or not they're enrolled in the DC, right?  So even if they do take away our choice of II deposit, or the DC does cause diminished inventory in II, etc ..., we still suffer whatever effects even if we don't enroll our Weeks in the DC.

The questions still come down to a comparison between the two systems as they exist today - will you get better exchange value from II or the DC, and which is more cost effective to use?  Remember, too, II isn't any more protected from policy changes or increasing fees than the DC.

There aren't any right answers!  It all depends on what you own and how you're able to use it.  For some the answer is II, and for some the answer is the DC (and not just because the name "Marriott" is on it.)  All you're doing if you enroll is giving yourself another choice - enrollment in the DC doesn't mean you're giving up II, it means you can use either system.


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## SueDonJ

iconnections said:


> My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!
> 
> The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to?  They may change that too.



Emmy, if you're talking about the language in the DC contracts that says Marriott can institute a lottery process to ensure that all owners get a reasonable chance at using certain prime weeks in a season, that language is in some of the original contracts for Weeks, too.  I'd guess that IF Marriott puts something like this into play it will affect every owner and not just DC Members.

I agree with Ingrid that there's nothing that says Marriott can force a Weeks owner to remain with the DC - it's simply an overlay exchange system.  Weeks owners who enroll don't give up their rights to use their Weeks exactly the same as un-enrolled owners can.


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## SueDonJ

I wonder of those who are still not sure whether they will join, are you planning to make a decision prior to the 12/31 deadline that Marriott gave for the 800 PlusPoints, or waiting however long it takes for you to get a good idea of how the system is working for those who have joined, or something else?


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## Pens_Fan

Single week owner.

Did not join.

I rarely trade and saw no advantage in joining the new system, monetary or otherwise.


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## nanceetom

No, we've not joined our 3 devoper weeks.  The joing fee is too high.


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## classiclincoln

So far, it looks like about 60% are not joining.  Would love to see how this poll would fare using all Marriott owners...


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## suzannesimon

I'm not opposed to joining but find no reason at this point. I'm perfectly happy trading for non-Marriott resorts in Interval.  I would be more inclined to join if they had a clubs in Mexico and a couple more Caribbean islands.


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## DanCali

wof45 said:


> Since you need to deposit a valid reservation, that deposit is Marriott's chance to exchange the week you deposit for another equal week in II -- and you shouldn't care.



If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value.



windje2000 said:


> Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub.  Own where you vacation . . .





SueDonJ said:


> But any negative effects the DC might have on the existing II system will apply to Weeks whether or not they're enrolled in the DC, right?



This is not obvious to me at all. In the DC Marriott can change the rules tomorrow and it wouldn't surprise anyone. If you don't like it you can opt out.

For people not part of the club, depositing a confirmed reservation is something that has been going on for 20+ years and it wouldn't surprise me if the CC&Rs allow that as a deeded right. But even if not, I suspect this would be much harder and legally challenging for Marriott to do this given the history and various representations made over time (at time of purchase, recorded VOA calls etc).

I believe that if this change comes, it will apply to elrolled weeks only.

(P.S. I know Starwood made this change, but let's remember that at Starwood the VOIs started out as "club weeks" and turn to weeks VOIs only upon a resale. Marriott has been a weeks system that added a club later on - it's a different situation)


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## Nickfromct

Not joining. Don't see the value for paying 2k upfront. If necessary, I'm fine with visiting Aruba or Beach Place each year or trading for non-Marriotts in II. Plus, we've done really well with II with their 2 for 1 XYZ weeks.


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## wof45

DanCali said:


> If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value.



what I actually said was that if II got the week that you deposited and marriott exchanged that with II, you should not care what week was actually at II as long as you got credit for your deposited week.


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## SueDonJ

DanCali said:


> If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value. ...
> 
> This is not obvious to me at all. In the DC Marriott can change the rules tomorrow and it wouldn't surprise anyone. If you don't like it you can opt out.
> 
> For people not part of the club, depositing a confirmed reservation is something that has been going on for 20+ years and it wouldn't surprise me if the CC&Rs allow that as a deeded right. But even if not, I suspect this would be much harder and legally challenging for Marriott to do this given the history and various representations made over time (at time of purchase, recorded VOA calls etc).
> 
> I believe that if this change comes, it will apply to elrolled weeks only.
> 
> (P.S. I know Starwood made this change, but let's remember that at Starwood the VOIs started out as "club weeks" and turn to weeks VOIs only upon a resale. Marriott has been a weeks system that added a club later on - it's a different situation)



We've assumed (I know, I know) that the purpose of Marriott assigning Weeks for deposits into II would be to allow access to the more-desired Weeks intervals by DC Members, because those are the intervals needed for DC exchanges which will ensure the success of their new program.  I believe that there is enough leeway in the language of the Weeks documents for Marriott to make such a change that will apply to all Weeks, and I also believe that it's a possibility based on the recent revisions to the Reservations Procedures docs talked about here.  Not saying that it will happen, only that there's a possibility it could.  I don't understand why you think it would be applied to only Enrolled Weeks, if any, if the language that would allow it is in the Weeks documents and not the DC docs, and seeing as Weeks usage is governed by the Weeks documents.

If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company (or for mingling in whatever ways they can among the "buckets.")  The DC Point values of the Exchange Members' deposits and requested intervals aren't affected at all by the II TDI; and, Exchange Members aren't required to reserve a Weeks interval prior to converting a Week to DC Points.  It's the Weeks Owners (un-enrolled and Exchange Members who are not converting their Weeks to DC Points) who are reserving the high-TDI-value intervals for deposits into II.  So if Marriott was to begin the practice of assigning Weeks for II deposits, and if there's nothing in the Weeks documents to prohibit it, why wouldn't they apply it across the board with all Weeks usage?


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## DanCali

SueDonJ said:


> I don't understand why you think it would be applied to only Enrolled Weeks, if any, if the language that would allow it is in the Weeks documents and not the DC docs, and seeing as Weeks usage is governed by the Weeks documents.



Because Marriott can amend the DC rules (unilaterally, at any point in time) to say that if you are in the DC you giveup any right you may have had to deposit a confirmed use period. It is probably not as easy to do outside the DC, or they would have done it already...

Remember that if a change like this is done, Marriott can also keep the "good reservation" for itself (not just for the DC) and rent it out for a profit, as long as they give II some other week they have in that same season. That is why I believe that if it was easy to do in the weeks system, it would have been done already and if it will be done within the DC it will not necessarily benefit the enrollees... 



> If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company



It's a lot worse than that. What I said above also applies to conversion of weeks to points only there Marriott can give the DC relatively undesirable weeks worth the same number of points as a Hawaii week (we're all waiting to see if GergT's 3BR becomes available at 13 months out...). Do you know for a fact Marriott puts your summer HHI week into the DC when you elect points or do they put 2 Orlando weeks? 



SueDonJ said:


> So if Marriott was to begin the practice of assigning Weeks for II deposits, and if there's nothing in the Weeks documents to prohibit it, why wouldn't they apply it across the board with all Weeks usage?



(a) I am not sure the CC&Rs don't side with owners on this and (b) they would create ill-will with 400,000 owners, not just 40,000 who agreed that anything can change at any point unilaterally, and (c) they would get sued...


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## SueDonJ

DanCali said:


> Because Marriott can amend the DC rules (unilaterally, at any point in time) to say that if you are in the DC you giveup any right you may have had to deposit a confirmed use period. It is probably not as easy to do outside the DC, or they would have done it already...
> 
> Remember that if a change like this is done, Marriott can also keep the "good reservation" for itself (not just for the DC) and rent it out for a profit, as long as they give II some other week they have in that same season. That is why I believe that if it was easy to do in the weeks system, it would have been done already and if it will be done within the DC it will not necessarily benefit the enrollees...



I just don't see how enrollment in the DC gives Marriott the right to change the rules for usage of Weeks, whether we're talking about un-enrolled Weeks or enrolled Weeks which are not converted to DC Points.  The Weeks docs govern Weeks usage, the DC docs govern DC Points usage.  Every stipulation in the DC docs that would apply to an "affiliate program" (which is how I think II would be defined within the context of the DC, if they tried to make this change for only Enrolled Owners by way of amendments to the DC) applies to DC Points usage, not Weeks usage.  As far as how easy it may or may not be for them to change how we've been doing it, I think the recent revisions to the Reservations Procedures documents make it much easier to implement by way of amendments to the Weeks docs than the DC docs.  And thus, much easier to implement across ALL Weeks if it's implemented at all.  



DanCali said:


> It's a lot worse than that. What I said above also applies to conversion of weeks to points only there Marriott can give the DC relatively undesirable weeks worth the same number of points as a Hawaii week (we're all waiting to see if GergT's 3BR becomes available at 13 months out...). Do you know for a fact Marriott puts your summer HHI week into the DC when you elect points or do they put 2 Orlando weeks?



We're in agreement here.  My entire sentence reads, "If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company _(or for mingling in whatever ways they can among the 'buckets.')_"  You quoted it without the parenthesized phrase, which says effectively the same thing you're saying in that Marriott has a whole lot of leeway to deposit/withdraw what they consider equal-value intervals among the "buckets" of Weeks, DC and II inventory.  I think that if I convert a Week to DC Points, Marriott uses it in whichever way they need to use it to further their aim of DC success.



DanCali said:


> (a) I am not sure the CC&Rs don't side with owners on this and (b) they would create ill-will with 400,000 owners, not just 40,000 who agreed that anything can change at any point unilaterally, and (c) they would get sued...



Marriott's proven time and again that "ill will" among the Owners is not enough to stop them from doing what they believe they have a right to do.  They can get sued anytime by one or one hundred thousand, but whether they can defend against a suit is another thing entirely.  I don't see anything in the documents for SurfWatch or Barony Beach that guarantees an Owner can choose the particular Week to be deposited for an II exchange (which is not to say that it's not in other resort docs,) but I do see a lot of related leeway for Marriott in them, especially in the recent revisions of the Reservations Procedures documents.  As well, if we're talking about a pattern of use that can be proven, Marriott can rely on the interface of my-vacationclub.com to show that Weeks Owners who utilized the "Exchange" button there prior to the introduction of the DC did not choose a particular week in season.  I'm sure they also have records which will show that all Owners who telephoned in didn't either.

Realistically, Dan, how many non-TUG Owners do you think actually know about the II demand index and utilize it to get the most value out of exchanging their Weeks in II?  I would guess not very many, judging by the various surveys over the years that show a majority of MVCI Owners are displeased with the results they've gotten from II.  Just a guess, though, I don't really know.  But I do know that TUG represents a very small sampling of MVCI Owners, and we're probably much more aware about all these tricks and hints than the majority ownership.


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## labguides

Have heard nothing about point system.  Where can I learn more?

We own two weeks in Palm Desert.

Later.. just found info on points system.  Should we have received info from Marriott or II about this?


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## Cathyb

*DaveM -- question on this*



Dave M said:


> Please vote.



Since the deadline is approaching at the lower price, is there some way another Inquiry can be set up to see if those that voted 'not sure' have now made a decision?


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## SueDonJ

labguides said:


> Have heard nothing about point system.  Where can I learn more?
> 
> We own two weeks in Palm Desert.
> 
> Later.. just found info on points system.  Should we have received info from Marriott or II about this?



Some people got emails or regular mail from Owner Services and/or sales rep contacts, but Marriott didn't do a blanket mailing.  Instead they put all the info on my-vacationclub.com and loaded that home page as well as the recorded messages on their telephone lines with prompts to contact Owner Services with questions.  TUG has thousands of posts about it, but be aware that we started dissecting it the minute the website was changed on June 20th and we haven't always gotten everything correct.   

I just got II's new Marriott-focused directory yesterday and it includes a spread about working with Marriott's new program, but that's the first notification from II about it.

A good way for you to begin is by signing in to your my-vacationclub.com account, click on the "Learn More" link at the bottom of that "New Points-based Option" paragraph, and then click on the "FAQ" link under "Questions?" on the right side of the page.  Then check out Dave's Summary of New Marriott Points Program FAQ which is at the top of the Marriott board here on TUG, and feel free to ask any questions here.

There is a 12/31/10 deadline to enroll your Weeks at the introductory prices and get an 800-Point bonus.  It's unclear exactly what, if any, changes will be made after 12/31 so you may want to call Owner Services sometime during the next few weeks if you need more info.


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## cambria

*Longer Term*

Like one of the other participants, I mostly want to keep our options open for the future.  Over the last six years, we have maximized the use of our three timeshares using split weeks, ACs and bonus weeks.  We have blended trades with both II and SFX to upgrade studio deposits into one or two bedroom units and traveled to some nice locations.  

We are retired and can be flexible in our our travel arrangements.  The option to schedule shorter stays is attractive for us. Other members have outlined strategies (i.e. mid week stays, low season usage) that may allow participants to leverage this system.

Many of our trades have been within the Marriott system so the potential cost savings on fees is another plus.


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## pwrshift

cambria said:


> .  The option to schedule shorter stays is attractive for us. .



Everyone is different, of course, but that 'benefit' doesn't appeal to me in the least.  My 3 weeks at Manor Club can be divided into 3 and 4 nite segments for each week...and I've never ever used it.  Can't imagine driving all that way to stay a short stay in a timeshare, have to load the fridge, etc., when I much prefer the short stay amenities of a full service hotel with restaurants, room service, maids, etc.  I much prefer to 'move in' when I go to a timeshare and most of the time I'm a resident for 2 to 4 weeks a stay.  Just like a home away from home, it seems.  

Brian


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## Superchief

*If you can't beat them, join them!*

Although I have several concerns regarding the new DC program, I decided to enroll my five MVC weeks (primarily gold and silver) into the program. I also purchased 1500 points to achieve Preferred Plus status and have more flexibility. By purchasing, the enrollment fee was waved and I received 1400 plus points. Since I have two resort with lockoffs and often convert my Royal Palms to MR points, my annual dues will be easily covered by my fee savings. 

I will continue to primarily use my home resorts on Singer Island and Newport Coast, as welll as EOY at Mountainside and Canyon Villas. Ocean Pointe, Mountainside, and Newport Coast have reasonable point allocation (less than  .40/pt MF, so I may occasionally convert them when we want to try a different vacation experience. In addition to saving on fees, my primary strategy for using DC points will be:
1. Add a couple days to a home resort vacation.
2. Downsize to a one bedroom at a resort that is difficult to get through II.
3. Stay primarily Sun-Fri when point costs are lower, and complement with a weekend stay at a Marriott/Renaissance hotel (where weekend rates are often lower). I have already reserved five nights at Newport coast next year for 1500 pt.
4. Occasionally book a cruise or travel package. (I realize I could probably find a cheaper price through Costco or a travel agency, but this allows me to use my MF to which I am already committed without the hastle of trying to rent). 

I was already able to cancel my Royal Palms vacation for next year and convert to 110K MR points without any fees. Due to the ability to cancel DC reservations up until 61 days prior to stay, I think we will see a lot more fluctuation in availability next year.


----------



## winger

Superchief said:


> Although I have several concerns regarding the new DC program, I decided to enroll my five MVC weeks (primarily gold and silver) into the program. I also purchased 1500 points to achieve Preferred Plus status and have more flexibility. By purchasing, the enrollment fee was waved and I received 1400 plus points. Since I have two resort with lockoffs and often convert my Royal Palms to MR points, my annual dues will be easily covered by my fee savings.
> 
> I will continue to primarily use my home resorts on Singer Island and Newport Coast, as welll as EOY at Mountainside and Canyon Villas. Ocean Pointe, Mountainside, and Newport Coast have reasonable point allocation (less than  .40/pt MF, so I may occasionally convert them when we want to try a different vacation experience. In addition to saving on fees, my primary strategy for using DC points will be:
> 1. Add a couple days to a home resort vacation.
> 2. Downsize to a one bedroom at a resort that is difficult to get through II.
> 3. Stay primarily Sun-Fri when point costs are lower, and complement with a weekend stay at a Marriott/Renaissance hotel (where weekend rates are often lower). I have already reserved five nights at Newport coast next year for 1500 pt.
> 4. Occasionally book a cruise or travel package. (I realize I could probably find a cheaper price through Costco or a travel agency, but this allows me to use my MF to which I am already committed without the hastle of trying to rent).
> 
> I was already able to cancel my Royal Palms vacation for next year and convert to 110K MR points without any fees. Due to the ability to cancel DC reservations up until 61 days prior to stay, I think we will see a lot more fluctuation in availability next year.


The DC is all about flexibility (of course, at a price)...

Just one note about doing the Sun-Fri then supplementing with a hotel stay for the weekend.  We just 'experimented' with 3 nights at NCV (Newport), then two nights a Residence Inn, then a move back into NCV for 7 nights.  All the moving, unpacking/repacking, checkins/outs (especially with two young kids and boatload of Costco food) - it was a unique experience, but we may not like to make this into a habit/choice of travel every year as the vacation can be taken up with an abundant amout of 'in-transit' time.  If it were just two of us with a couple of small luggages, maybe, it would be less 'disruptive'.


----------



## dartmax

*Owner concerns*

How does Marriott get inventory for the point system?  If the resort is sold out the inventory can only come from owner who take Reward points for their week or the week is obtained from II.  How can owners be assurred that by Marriott Points Program will not be given preference by II to get weeks instead of owners?  Booking for owners I think will be more difficult with II for other Marriott resorts if not impossible.  Marriott and II are in bed together and I don't trust that relationship.


----------



## vincenzi

We own three weeks.  We own two weeks in Aruba and one week in Hilton Head.  Have not enrolled.  We do not plan to enroll.


----------



## Big Matt

Marriott can buy back defaulted loans or at auction.  There is more of this than you may want to believe.



dartmax said:


> How does Marriott get inventory for the point system?  If the resort is sold out the inventory can only come from owner who take Reward points for their week or the week is obtained from II.  How can owners be assurred that by Marriott Points Program will not be given preference by II to get weeks instead of owners?  Booking for owners I think will be more difficult with II for other Marriott resorts if not impossible.  Marriott and II are in bed together and I don't trust that relationship.


----------



## wof45

winger said:


> The DC is all about flexibility (of course, at a price)...
> 
> Just one note about doing the Sun-Fri then supplementing with a hotel stay for the weekend.  We just 'experimented' with 3 nights at NCV (Newport), then two nights a Residence Inn, then a move back into NCV for 7 nights.  All the moving, unpacking/repacking, checkins/outs (especially with two young kids and boatload of Costco food) - it was a unique experience, but we may not like to make this into a habit/choice of travel every year as the vacation can be taken up with an abundant amout of 'in-transit' time.  If it were just two of us with a couple of small luggages, maybe, it would be less 'disruptive'.



we learned on a couple of tours to travel light with a single bag and to stay at least two nights in each hotel.  In the past few years, the airlines have the two of us traveling with one carry-on size case that we check plus a large computer case and wheeled backpack.

the laundry at the MVCI helps on longer trips.  We have been wondering what to do with the 2nd bedroom at the 2BR only resorts, but we always invite the kids (grown now) and let them decide if the timing works.


----------



## jmlmeyer

We decided to join. We own 2 "non developer" purchased weeks, both Platinum. One is Beach Place, the other is Desert Springs 1. Joined because we believe based on how we use our weeks we will save at least $500 a year in II fees. We like the option of being able to convert our weeks to MRP which we could not do before. Lastly we feel in the future there may be benefits to the new points system and feel uncertain about our ability to access it with our "non developer" weeks if we don't do so by year end. To use these benefits were worth $1995.


----------



## appell

*Joined*

I went to the sales pitch while staying at Cypress Harbor.  I decided to join for the $595 because it looked like Marriott was squeezing owners to join.  New resorts work only on the point system so you would loose access.  I did not buy any new points but received 2100 points for my Grande Vista.  I understand I still can trade the old fashioned way by depositing with II.  I had nothing to loose but my $595.


----------



## labguides

We received the Destination Info yesterday.  CONFUSING.  
If we go the Destination way are we limited to trading into Marriotts?  
If we join the Destination and then decide we want to go back to "old" way.. is that possible?

Admittedly, I have not studied the info as it just arrived yesterday.


----------



## DanCali

appell said:


> New resorts work only on the point system so you would loose access.



What new resorts? Did I miss anything?  

You can't lose access to something that doesn't exist and is unlikely to get built (at least not in the next decade)....


----------



## jimf41

*Can not sure's change their vote*

Dave M,
It would be nice to know how the not sure votes finally decided by the 31st or if they did. Any way of allowing them to do that?


----------



## shoeslover05

Hi, 

I wonder if anyone would give me some pointer.  First off, I own a week w/Marriott in Vail, Co...evergreen building.  I don't have any problem trading for the places that I want to go. (aruba, hawaii 2x, tahoe) In fact, I had just got confirmation for a 2b/2b ko olina for my bff wedding this march.  Though, I do have to mention my request for this up coming trip was just strictly 2/27-3/6.  Honestly, I didn't think I was going to get it b/c my travel time request was not flexible.  

Alright, here is the question.  I toy about the idea of buying points but my husband made a good argument is that, why buy points if we are able to trade through II in all of the destinations that we wanted to go in the past even w/high demand places like Hawaii.  

I'm just puzzle as to what's the faith of week ownership going to be in the future.  Will I have a harder time trading into high demand places?  Will Marriott continue to trade through II?  Any pointer is appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## goin4golf

I own 3 weeks at Marriott resorts and I will NOT join.  I don't understand how anyone considers the program to be a benefit over II - - Marriott does not even give you enough points to be able to trade back into your own resort if you need to.  Plus, it eliminates ability to upgrade seasons or propertie (e.g. exchange one bedroom for two bedroom).  Not a good deal!


----------



## taffy19

We changed our answer in the poll from "_I'm still not sure what to do." to "_Single week owner; I will not join." and I doubt if we will in the future the way the new program is presented right now.  I am not going to say never because things may change for the better.


----------



## DIB

*Thoughts/Questions on DC point program*

We own two weeks at OP which we lock off and use every year, and one week at RP which we either trade for Reward Points or, after getting Christmas Week from MVCI, do an Exchange First with II. We did a "tour" with sales pitch earlier this week at Oceana Palms while at OP.

1.  We will enroll in the new system, but not sure if will buy extra DC points.
2.  The annual lockoff fees and RP to II or Reward Point fees are more than the new flat rate $199/yr DC Club Fee (assuming we do not do exchanges thru II out of the MVCI system).  So enrolling is a no brainer for us.
3.  We are short 525 DC points from Premier Plus.  Marriott says will sell minimum of 1500 DC.  *Does anyone know if Marriott will sell less new DC points than 1500?*  We like the advantage of being able to book single nights at 13 months out as a Premier Plus member.
4.  We too would use the DC points for midweek stays at MVCI and use Reward Points for weekend stays.  It's just two of us and moving once or twice is no big deal.  Plus can use washer/dryer at MVCI (but then part of buy decision is cost of DC points and whether the added flexibility; use of washer/dryer; etc., etc. is worth it.  It would cost us ~$18,300 to buy 2000 DC points - the theory being that 2000 points plus the 2125 points we get from giving back RP = 4125 points which is what a 2BR goes for an some of the nicer MVCI locations (Singer Island, USVI) in platinum season (except holiday weeks).
4.  Once concern discussed at length around the pool this week was whether MVCI inventory in II would go down significantly with the new DC system  Many of us have been able to do great upgrade exchanges:  a studio at OP for a 2BR an another MVCI property (in platinum season); a 1BR at OP for a non-MVCI 3BR in Marbella, a 2 BR in Panama City for a 2BR at OP during Christmas week.  *This is big concern going forward.*
5.  The multi weekowners at OP seem mostly OK with new system since they use OP only for 2-3 months with lockoffs and save fees under new system.  But owners of fewer weeks who trade seem very angry, especially those who bought "cheap" weeks at lesser resorts in order to use same for exhanges into better resorts.   Many did this at encouragement of prior salesmen and feel lied to by Marriott as to the worth of these "trade only" week. While people recognize that the deeds promise nothing, the feel misled by Marriott reps and are very unhappy.
6.  The word is out the Marriott extended the 12/31/10 deadline for the discounted enrollment fees to 6/30/11.

Thoughts always appreciated,
David


----------



## Shauna

*Have we enrolled?*

Yes we are multiple owners and we have enrolled


----------



## Former Cruiser

No.  We only own 1 Platinum week at MOW.  They are not lock-offs.  We use it to trade, and have had no problems - yet.  The skim isn't worth it.


----------



## 67miner

*Not for Me*

Just went to a presentation at Shadow Ridge.  Looks more like a revenue builder for Marriott Vacation Club   I own two weeks at Desert Springs and typically use my weeks and really can't see any justification for enrolling since I purchased my units from a secondary seller.  Marriott Reward points availability by joining is not a positive as that system is weakened every year with increased points needed for top-of-the-line properties.  I've done a few exchanges through II put it requires more patience than I have.


----------



## CatJ114683

We have not enrolled our single week .  We will NOT be purchasing any additional points.  The cost to invest now is a 1500 point min., that comes in around 14-15K plus an additional $600.00 a year maint. fee.  We are in our late 50's and do not have children, so this would just be wasted money for us.   For 15 K we can rent or purchase a decent week for the next 7 years. Our last presentation the salesperson was very candid and said that the maint. fee would be raised annually.  Our initial 16K investment is probably worth 6 or 7 on ebay now, so putting more $$ into the system just seems silly to us.  We have traded our week very successfully into many lovely non-Marriott resorts.  We also think that now our week will carry a little more clout with II since there will be less inventory deposited.   I am also curious about reading that people have enrolled their weeks that were not developer purchased.  I was under the impression that only developer weeks were eligable to convert......


----------



## dioxide45

CatJ114683 said:


> I am also curious about reading that people have enrolled their weeks that were not developer purchased.  I was under the impression that only developer weeks were eligable to convert......



Any week purchased prior to 6/20/2010 can enroll in the DC program. It doesn't matter where it was purchased.


----------



## CatJ114683

dioxide45 said:


> Any week purchased prior to 6/20/2010 can enroll in the DC program. It doesn't matter where it was purchased.



I see.  So all these units I have watched being sold independently recently(EBay, Craigs list, etc) can not join the new program and can only use their week or trade on II.   Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## jimf41

DIB said:


> We like the advantage of being able to book single nights at 13 months out as a Premier Plus member.
> 
> Don't count on the 13 month advantage using DC points. I've read about some folks having success but I've had no luck at Frenchman's Cove, Ocean Pointe or Oceana Palms for Plat weeks.
> 
> 
> 5.  The multi weekowners at OP seem mostly OK with new system since they use OP only for 2-3 months with lockoffs and save fees under new system.
> David



Don't say that to any of the OP multi-week Plat owners I know. If you go to the OPNewsgroup I think you'll find the word OUTRAGE best describes their feelings. I'm enrolled but as far as I can see they really need to work out a few problems before it will be an advantage over the old system.


----------



## dmharris

*Attended a points presentation at Newport Coast this week*

We own one week, two bedroom lock-off at Grande Vista, and we lock it off and deposit into II every year and have traded for fabulous spots, Waiohai, Grande Ocean, Aruba Surf Club, Newport Coast, Imperial Palms, and the lock off for a 2 bedroom at our home resort.  

So I had no interest in points but wanted to hear from the horse's mouth their story.  One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points.  If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees.  Am I right?

We were told we can still trade through II, see on-line what's available and it all works the same.  Is this true?

We were offered 800 points as a bonus.  But they've raised the price of points from the initial offering of about $9.20/point to about $9.80/point.  We don't have the time to take any more vacations since we're self employed and we don't let ourselves rest (stupid, I know but the unpredictability of business ebbs and flows is the cause) so we won't be buying points.

Am I right this would save me money over time, given the fees stay the same or are raised proportionally one to another, Marriott and II?


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## SueDonJ

dmharris said:


> We own one week, two bedroom lock-off at Grande Vista, and we lock it off and deposit into II every year and have traded for fabulous spots, Waiohai, Grande Ocean, Aruba Surf Club, Newport Coast, Imperial Palms, and the lock off for a 2 bedroom at our home resort.
> 
> So I had no interest in points but wanted to hear from the horse's mouth their story.  One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points.  If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees.  Am I right?
> 
> We were told we can still trade through II, see on-line what's available and it all works the same.  Is this true?
> 
> We were offered 800 points as a bonus.  But they've raised the price of points from the initial offering of about $9.20/point to about $9.80/point.  We don't have the time to take any more vacations since we're self employed and we don't let ourselves rest (stupid, I know but the unpredictability of business ebbs and flows is the cause) so we won't be buying points.
> 
> Am I right this would save me money over time, given the fees stay the same or are raised proportionally one to another, Marriott and II?



Diane, I would say you have a pretty good understanding of the fee structure and the way you'll be able to do everything in II.

Yes, it appears that if you enroll in the DC and continue to do the same amount of Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges through II using your lock-offs, then your $165 annual Club Dues will be less than the Marriott/II per/transaction fees you'll be paying if you don't enroll.  But in any year if you simply use your one Week as a 7-day home resort stay, which would cost you nothing in transaction fees, you will still have to pay the $165 Club Dues to remain enrolled in the DC (similar to paying II annual fees even in years that you don't exchange.)

Yes, we who have enrolled are able to use the same II interface to search and process exchanges and Getaways in our new/corporate II accounts.  There are no fees for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges; the same II fees will exist for outside-Marriott exchanges.

As you know there are no guarantees that either II or Marriott won't increase fees at any time, and that includes whether or not Club Dues will always be less than per-transaction fees for the particular way you use your Weeks.  But you're right in that if they each are raised proportionally then you'll be ahead of the game.  If at any time you're not, you can choose to un-enroll from the DC.

Many of us who have enrolled our Week(s) have not purchased additional DC Points but have still managed to use the 800 PlusPoints bonus.  You could try to add a couple days to existing reservations, maybe do an unexpected weekend away within driving distance, maybe offer a night or two as a gift to family or friends.  The PlusPoints cannot be transferred or banked so their use is limited, but I'm sure we could help you figure out how to use them instead of having them expire.

The one variable that is most unknown at this time is the effect of the DC on availability of both Marriott and II inventory.  There are quite a few threads going with folks trying to figure out if we're already seeing effects or will in the future.  But my thinking is that if there are adverse effects on availability, enrolled Owners will be able to choose among more usage options to try to counter such effects.

Good luck with your decision.  The DC works for some and not for others depending upon what's owned and how it's used most often.  Generally speaking it makes less sense for owners of one Week who rarely exchange, and most sense for multi-week Owners who exchange often or want to take advantage of the less-than-7-days-stay opportunities.


----------



## dmharris

Thank you Sue for your thorough response to all my questions.  I'm good to enroll now!


----------



## SueDonJ

Diane, I just read through and corrected a couple of wrong words in my post (the mind works in mysterious ways sometimes!) and wanted to make sure a couple other things are clear for you.

Talking about searching exchange and Getaway inventory in II - what I mean is that we're seeing the same results when we do those searches in our old and new II accounts, and that exchanges to other Marriotts won't require an II fee.  I don't mean that Getaways to Marriotts are free in the new accounts - they're available but for the same fees as in the old accounts.

Talking about the most unknown variable, available inventory in Marriott and II from this point forward - your exchange history sounds like a pretty good one, with uptrades in most instances using your lock-off units.  We don't know if those uptrades will continue, if the DC will result in a more level like-for-like II exchange product across the board.  In my opinion IF it does then your usage pattern is the type most likely to be affected, no doubt, but IF it does that effect will take place regardless of whether you are enrolled or not.

Hope this makes sense ...


----------



## dmharris

I understand what you're saying; thanks!  We have been lucky in our trades; I'm pretty good at watching, strategizing and we travel in off season times which adds to our ability to get good trades.


----------



## wof45

dmharris said:


> I understand what you're saying; thanks!  We have been lucky in our trades; I'm pretty good at watching, strategizing and we travel in off season times which adds to our ability to get good trades.



we joined DC points, we got a good off-season bargain with points and a good high season week using points that we wouldn't have seen for a trade.

we have some non-marriott traders, so we are curious to see how they will do, since we now have two II accounts, one for DC another that has an ineligible Marriott plus the others.

To date, our $400 MF studio and $700 2BR do well -- the studio pulling 2BR Marriotts in flex time and the 2BR pulling gold season 2BR Marriotts in normal trades.  I wonder how these will do in a non-DC II account.

We are already booked for 2011 vacation time, so I guess we just need to be patient to see.


----------



## dioxide45

dmharris said:


> One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points.  If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees.  Am I right?



I think their math was wrong. If you only own one MGV week.

II Membership - $89
Lock off fee - $75
Exchange Fee - $109
Exchange Fee - $109

Total - $382

Subtract the $165

You save $218 per year. Not ~$400

You will break even in about three years if you are a developer owner.


----------



## charlie100

*not sure about enrollment*

I am not sure about the new program. 

They told me that it may be easier to make a reservation on the new system because once enrolled, the inventory may not be available for the traditional reservation method. However, they offer only the number of points that is the minimum amount for the unit being enrolled.

In other words, I can currently split my unit and get two weeks, but I would not have enough points to book those two units even in the lowest season.
In addition, if a lot of people enroll, I have a lower chance of getting what I want in the traditional system.

It seems to me that I am paying them to get a lower value from what I own. I am not sure that the added flexibility and the new fee structure  are worth the lower value and enrollment fees. But I may need to enroll just to keep my options open.

Am I missing something on the program?  

Charlie100


----------



## Wahoo Josh

*Will not enroll*

Single-week owner since 1993.  I received a presentation on the new system at Marriott Kauai last summer, and I have no plans to enroll.


----------



## dmharris

dioxide45 said:


> I think their math was wrong. If you only own one MGV week.
> 
> II Membership - $89
> Lock off fee - $75
> Exchange Fee - $109
> Exchange Fee - $109
> 
> Total - $382
> 
> Subtract the $165
> 
> You save $218 per year. Not ~$400
> 
> You will break even in about three years if you are a developer owner.




Hmm, I've never been good with math.  Is there a fee we're missing here?  The sales reps talk so fast and take the paper away so you can't study it.  I tried but didn't care enough to rip the paper out of her hand.  In any event, the bottom line is I'm saving money by enrolling.  Right?  Yes we're one developer week owners.


----------



## billwright1

We had the presentation today and have decided that the cost is too high for the benefit that it would give. I bought my unit resale, not through Marriott and would have a higher fee to enroll than if I had bought it from Marriott. We don't always trade through marriott so it wouldn't mean that much.
It appears that it will become very difficult for me to trade through Marriott as the points program kicks in, but I think my Marriott week will become more valauable trading through II as Marriott weeks are removed from the II tradings system.


----------



## RickSpencer

I heard a rumor that Marriott was selling their timeshare business.  Is that true?


----------



## mjm1

There is another thread that discusses this issue that you may want to refer to.  Marriott announced that they will be spinning off the timeshare side of the business into a separate company.  The Marriott family will continue to own 21% of both companies.


----------



## l0410z

*Guidance Please*

I own one week at the Monarch which allows me to exchange for 125K (or 120K not sure ) Marriott reward  points every year. I purchased this on resale in 1992.    I either exchange for points and use it at hotels or exchange for another Marriott timeshare.   I am a Platinum member and often stay in Marriott hotels in general.  

I own a second non Marriott timeshare in orlando  that I purchased in 1991 also on resale.  I have never stayed their and only exchange it.  

I have a paid up II membership through 2014.  

I am shocked how out of touch I have become on what  marriott is doing with the point system.  I didn't have a clue this was going on.  

This BB has been very helpful.

I see limited value for me.   I still have to join II for the other week.   I can still trade for other Marriott timeshares.   I get ability to use the new points for shorter stays.       

There is on question  I do have.   Assume I move over to the new system.   Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points?   This could be an interesting additional flexibility.


Can someone correct  me on the limited value in my situation?

Thanks in advance,


----------



## dioxide45

l0410z said:


> There is on question  I do have.   Assume I move over to the new system.   Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points?   This could be an interesting additional flexibility.
> 
> 
> Can someone correct  me on the limited value in my situation?
> 
> Thanks in advance,



None of your current usage options go away. So even if you enroll, you will still be able to exchange for MRP as you always have.


----------



## wof45

l0410z said:


> I own one week at the Monarch which allows me to exchange for 125K (or 120K not sure ) Marriott reward  points every year. I purchased this on resale in 1992.    I either exchange for points and use it at hotels or exchange for another Marriott timeshare.   I am a Platinum member and often stay in Marriott hotels in general.
> 
> I own a second non Marriott timeshare in orlando  that I purchased in 1991 also on resale.  I have never stayed their and only exchange it.
> 
> I have a paid up II membership through 2014.
> 
> I am shocked how out of touch I have become on what  marriott is doing with the point system.  I didn't have a clue this was going on.
> 
> This BB has been very helpful.
> 
> I see limited value for me.   I still have to join II for the other week.   I can still trade for other Marriott timeshares.   I get ability to use the new points for shorter stays.
> 
> There is on question  I do have.   Assume I move over to the new system.   Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points?   This could be an interesting additional flexibility.
> 
> 
> Can someone correct  me on the limited value in my situation?
> 
> Thanks in advance,



I believe there is general agreement that there is no apparent benefit to enrolling in the DC points program for someone who owns only one MVC week, unless you always lock it off and trade both sides.  Or, if you also buy DC points from MVC.


----------



## TJCNewYork

*Can New II Account Be Upgraded to Gold?*



SueDonJ said:


> Diane, Talking about searching exchange and Getaway inventory in II - what I mean is that we're seeing the same results when we do those searches in our old and new II accounts, and that exchanges to other Marriotts won't require an II fee.  I don't mean that Getaways to Marriotts are free in the new accounts - they're available but for the same fees as in the old accounts.



By any chance, do you know if the new II account can be upgraded to Interval Gold?


----------



## SueDonJ

TJCNewYork said:


> By any chance, do you know if the new II account can be upgraded to Interval Gold?



Hmmmm.  I don't know.    The only thing I would guess at, is that IF it is available, then the fee to upgrade will not be covered by the DC Club Dues (which do cover the II enrollment fee.)

On the sign-in page both accounts have a notation that Gold is "Not Available."  But if I go into the Profile section of my old/individual account and click on the "Renew/Upgrade" button, then I can go all the way through to the payment page to upgrade to Gold.  Don't know what would happen if I tried to pay for it, not going to try. 

If I click the same button that's available for the new/individual account, then I get an error message with all kinds of gobbledygook code that makes no sense to me.  Don't know if this means it's not available, because that same error message is occurring with different clicks on both accounts.  It might mean Gold isn't available, it might have nothing to do with Gold and is related to other technical glitches that II seems to be having on-and-off since the rollout.

I just tried to do a TUG search for "II Gold corporate" in the Marriott section and got an error message there, too.  (Is it going to be one of those days?!)  You may want to post this question in a new thread and maybe someone who has enrolled and has been able to upgrade will see it.


----------



## Cmore

Multi week owner, we enrolled.

1) We'll save on annual fees 

2) Increased flexibility and potentially better inventory access

3) We'll still trade via II for full weeks, but plan to use some points for 5 night stays and possibly an explorer trip or two.


----------



## TJCNewYork

*Can the new II Account be Upgraded to Gold?*

SDJ - Thanks much.  The thought of starting a new thread crossed my mind, but it seemed on-point to raise the question here.  Saving $$, including II fees appears to be among DC's attractive features.  But, Interval Gold currently work for us.  








As illustrated above, with ShortStay Exchange we can exchange one week (7 nights) for two vacations ranging from 2 to 6 nights each.  (MVC resorts are included when available.  We've done just that, it works.)  This year, II offered a Bonus AC for each week we deposited.  In combination w/ShortStay, that gives us almost 3 weeks for 1 week.  II Gold also gives complimentary Hertz membership and other discounts.  


In order to retain these II Gold benefits we have to keep our II membership plus upgrade.  If the new II account could be upgraded to Gold at a discounted fee, that would retain the options we currently enjoy and make a stronger case for enrolling in DC.




SueDonJ said:


> Hmmmm.  I don't know.    The only thing I would guess at, is that IF it is available, then the fee to upgrade will not be covered by the DC Club Dues (which do cover the II enrollment fee.)
> 
> You may want to post this question in a new thread and maybe someone who has enrolled and has been able to upgrade will see it.


----------



## dioxide45

II gold is really an add on membership. It has a set fee. Not sure why it would be discounted under the corporate account. The corporate account covers basic membership. I don't see why you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.


----------



## TJCNewYork

*If it's not broke, don't fix it*



dioxide45 said:


> II gold is really an add on membership. It has a  set fee. Not sure why it would be discounted under the corporate  account. The corporate account covers basic membership. I don't see why  you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.




Dioxide:  To clear this up for sure, I'm planning to pose the question to the Marriott Desk at II as well as II, tomorrow since  Owner Services is already closed.  So TUGers, stay tuned.     


In the meantime, some background.  We attended a DC presentation last September and chose to decline enrollment in favor of '_wait and see_'.  We were reluctant to spend $$ to enroll in DC only to find out that we would have to $pend more $$ to maintain a separate II account and upgrade it to II Gold anyway to get the value-add. 


By mid-November, we started receiving e-mails from MVCI notifying us about amendments to Reservations Procedures for our resorts.  Realizing that nothing was broken, there was nothing to fix.  If we opted to occupy, little changed, if we opted to exchange, nothing changed either.  (Aside from the lag time in MVCI to owner communications, this is positive, btw)    


Guided by,_*"If it's not broke, don't fix it,"*_ our hunch (not to enroll and save $$) proved correct.    I appreciate that it had to be an extraordinary job for MVCI to meticulously amend by-laws for 50+ resorts and do so w/o breaching any statutes that protect the weeks that legacy owners currently enjoy.  MVCI has undertaken the gauntlet to reassure legacy owners of the *status quo*. We breathe a sigh of relief.


Quoting HotCoffee from another thread,  



hotcoffee said:


> I do hope that the Marriott spin-off  flourishes.  I am also hoping for some customer-oriented changes down  the road that will:
> 
> 1. improve resale values by enabling future resales a way to get into  the DC program and by providing an acceptable resale option for points,
> 2. provide a better enrollment incentive to encourage a higher percentage of enrollments,
> 3. provide cheaper DC exchange options so as to encourage more people to buy points outright,
> 4. provide more places to exchange into in more locations.




With that positive spirit in mind, here's another suggestion: 

Enhance Destination Club with *Destination Club Gold* to include the features of II Gold.    Looking at GregT's updated Point Redemption Values spreadsheet, perhaps spinco might also consider *Bonus Marriott Rewards points* as incentive, too.


Cheers

TJCNewYork


----------



## TJCNewYork

*Final Answer:  The new II account cannot be upgraded to II Gold*

Dioxide and all:  The MD at II states that the new II account cannot be upgraded to II Gold.  So, if I decided to enroll in DC and want II Gold benefits, I have to maintain a separate II basic membership account and pay the upgrade fee.



dioxide45 said:


> I don't see why you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.


----------



## TJCNewYork

*Disregard Final Answer-New Corporate Account CAN BE UPGRADED to II Gold*

All - Kindly disregard the earlier message.  Contrary to the Marriott Desk, Interval double-checked and confirms that the new corporate account can be upgraded to II Gold for an additional fee.


----------



## OldPantry

I hear lots of "lifestyle" arguments in favor of buying VC points.  "Yeah, it's a bit expensive, but you can lock in irreplaceable access to the best places at the best time."
Well, I've done a little homework on that "irreplaceable" argument, working with Ko Olina (my home resort).  Its ultra premium periods, corresponding point costs for  2BR mountain view and ocean view, Marriott rental costs, Redweek rental costs and points costs are respectively:
------------------------MV     OV------Marriott Rental---Redweek Rental----Real cost of points  
Spring Break (4/22):-----4800  6025--$404*/442*------$243/271----------$597/759
Thanksgiving:-----------4800  6025--$536^/526#------ $314/543(3BR)----$597/749
Christmas:--------------4800  6025--$569^/619^------$414/426----------$597/749
New Year's:-------------5500  6875--$484#N/A--------$314/429---------$684

* = MOD Discount, #Advance Purchase, ^ Leisure Rate
Note that in every case, renting directly from Marriott yields significant savings over buying points.

Real cost for points is derived by the $.40/point maintenance fee plus a calculation for what the investment could reasonably yield if not given to Marriott.  I have used a figure of just under 5%, which is available right now (one example being a Goldman Sachs 6.75% bond of 2037, A2/A- rated, yielding 6.89% to maturity).  Even after taxes, this bond (widely available) will yield nearly 5%.  So, for example, an OV unit requiring 6025 points would cost $59,074.  The 4% MF plus the 4.8% opportunity cost would be $5317 yearly, or $749 a night.  Compare that to Marriott-direct costs between $442 and $619 a night.  Only one of these most desirable weeks of the year is unavailable right now, an oceanview New Year's unit.  

So, I would argue that you can buy the best that Marriott offers, directly from Marriott, and still save achieve significant savings over a points "investment".  Go to Redweek and arrange a rental from a weeks owner, and the savings become huge.  Unless you're buying just enough new points to flesh out your legacy week exchange points (but that's a minimum of 1500 points, remember), new points look like a truly terrible deal.


----------



## dioxide45

Consider that the $59,074 is also potentially a lost principle cost. Most investments earning 5%, the money you put in is secure and you can turn around and pull it back out. If that purchase price is lost, that is an additional cost of ~$425.00 per night spread over twenty years.


----------



## OldPantry

dioxide45 said:


> Consider that the $59,074 is also potentially a lost principle cost. Most investments earning 5%, the money you put in is secure and you can turn around and pull it back out. If that purchase price is lost, that is an additional cost of ~$425.00 per night spread over twenty years.


Yes, that too.  Not that I hadn't thought of it; it's just a little more difficult to quantify.  Do you eventually lose all, or just some of that 59K?  What is almost certain is that you'll eventually take a sizable haircut, thus radically increasing your nightly cost over time.  
Here's a thought: what if the word really got out, and points sales collapsed (as did timeshare sales a couple of years ago)?  That would be bad for Spinco, of course, but I'm not positive it would be bad for legacy owners.  For one thing, if folks stopped buying points, and instead went to Redweek and Tug for their rentals, that would have a lovely effect on the income owners could then get for their weeks.  That, more than any other factor, would halt the precipitous drop in resale prices (at least for desirable weeks).  As to Spinco, it would have to rethink its business model.  Points might still make sense, but they'd have to be priced far more favorably than at present.  I suspect there is a niche for Spinco between owner rentals and Marriott retail pricing.  But with the real cost of points substantially MORE than Marriott retail, I think they're in big trouble.


----------



## TJCNewYork

OldPantry said:


> new points look like a truly terrible deal



That's the #1 reason we declined last September.  Last month, a MOS rep sounded genuine and reassuring, "Legacy owners continue to have the best deal".




OldPantry said:


> what if points sales collapsed? That would halt the precipitous drop in resale prices. Points might still make sense, but they'd have to be priced far more favorably than at present.



Considering all the major players are points-based now, there is a level playing field.  You just may be the oracle. A points sales collapse would accelerate a positive impact on legacy resales.




OldPantry said:


> with the real cost of points substantially MORE than Marriott retail, I think they're in big trouble. As to Spinco, it would have to rethink its business model.



History does have a tendency to repeat itself.  In the event of points sales collapse, a more nimble spinco could react faster.  And, just maybe get back its legs developing and selling weeks-based ownership resorts.


----------



## DavidPJ

We own a development week on HH and attended a preview over the weekend on Myrtle Beach. Prior to the preview, we knew about the points option but never paid much a attention to it.

We had the preview and the new program was loosely described. I'm not seeing the value in it for us as we very infrequently trade through II. Only once did we convert it to Rewards points. The only advantage for us as we can see is the supposed ability to just use points for just a 3 or 4 day stay rather than using our whole week at one time. But I wonder if this really would be possible on HH given the high demand.

I think if Marriott would not charge an annual fee for existing owners that converted to points I would give it more thought. I really don't understand the program very well and I've learned more about it here in 15 minutes than I did in our preview.

I'm more concerned with the future of the new timeshare company and our investment than I am about converting to points.


----------



## TJCNewYork

DavidPJ said:


> The only advantage for us as we can see is the supposed ability to just use points for just a 3 or 4 day stay rather than using our whole week at one time. But I wonder if this really would be possible on HH given the high demand.



DavidPJ - The short stay capability is available with Interval through ShortStay Exchange.  As illustrated below, with ShortStay  Exchange owners can exchange one week (7 nights) for two vacations ranging  from 2 to 6 nights each.


----------



## fluffy5

Not sure what to do.


----------



## av8tor

*not yet*

I have 2 resale Gold season weeks at MFC.  Only one of the weeks qualifies for the new points system, and I only get 2775 points. I am not sure if these points are a representative of true value of the week at MFC.  

I have traded for resorts in Tahoe or Breckenridge during the last two weeks of the year, but if I wanted to use the points for the same week and at the same resort, then I would have to buy additional 2000 points.  (Or I can rent the week out for the going rate on Redweek, and cover the MF for both of my weeks.)

In addition, I would have to pay almost $1500 to join just one of the two weeks...so where's my upside for joining?


----------



## dartmax

*No to point system*

At this time I will not join the point system as the system seems to preparing for a transition to a non-marriott owner of timeshares.  I own in St Thomas and Aruba and always exchange through ownertrades.com  I have discontinued my II membership because I find their exchanges offered to be substandard.  We just got back from Aruba and continue to enjoy Aruba.  I think with air fare going up and up shorter term stays at multiple resorts are less attractive.  We have never stayed less than a week at a Marriott.  The point system is more expensive to current owners.


----------



## pwrshift

dartmax said:


> At this time I will not join the point system as the system seems to preparing for a transition to a non-marriott owner of timeshares. .



Good observation IMO.


----------



## Mamianka

classiclincoln said:


> So far, it looks like about 60% are not joining.  Would love to see how this poll would fare using all Marriott owners...




An email response (to my foaming at the mouth about a horrible presentation) from my sales rep at MGC (who sold us the BPT EOY this past May) says that about 30 percent of all legacy owners have enrolled, as of this week.  If we then figure that, according to the thread, about 60 percent are NOT joining- then 40 percent of 30 percent is 12 percent.  Now - of that 12 percent - how many did it to avoid fees, and how many to trade for DC points? - and - the hot item than makes all the sale reps chase us and drool - how many of that 12 percent are BUYING MORE POINTS??  He also said that they have sold about 30 million trust points (must include the new purchasers), and 7 million DC points, from whatever sources, have been used for cruises, safaris, etc.; this takes inventory out of II and puts it into Marriott coffers.

When one of us here was in a bad mood, we would quote the Men in Black movie  - "You need PIE!" Now, this has morphed into "You need POINTS!" - since the M sales reps think that it is the cure for everything.  This morning: "Poor Duke - last night, they needed POINTS!"   

We will continue to check the Weather Channel, and when it has been determined that Hell has in fact frozen over, we might consider buying points.  Meanwhile, we have figured things out the way they suit US - and still plan on having some nice vacations.  I have run spreadsheets, amortizing our costs, and including fees and their anticipated increases - this still is OK for us - just as it is, thank you.  We told them that we do not intend to ever attend another presentation - makes us uncomfortable, and is a mutual waste of time.


----------



## OldPantry

Mamianka said:


> An email response (to my foaming at the mouth about a horrible presentation) from my sales rep at MGC (who sold us the BPT EOY this past May) says that about 30 percent of all legacy owners have enrolled, as of this week.  If we then figure that, according to the thread, about 60 percent are NOT joining- then 40 percent of 30 percent is 12 percent.  Now - of that 12 percent - how many did it to avoid fees, and how many to trade for DC points? - and - the hot item than makes all the sale reps chase us and drool - how many of that 12 percent are BUYING MORE POINTS??  He also said that they have sold about 30 million trust points (must include the new purchasers), and 7 million DC points, from whatever sources, have been used for cruises, safaris, etc.; this takes inventory out of II and puts it into Marriott coffers.
> 
> When one of us here was in a bad mood, we would quote the Men in Black movie  - "You need PIE!" Now, this has morphed into "You need POINTS!" - since the M sales reps think that it is the cure for everything.  This morning: "Poor Duke - last night, they needed POINTS!"
> 
> We will continue to check the Weather Channel, and when it has been determined that Hell has in fact frozen over, we might consider buying points.  Meanwhile, we have figured things out the way they suit US - and still plan on having some nice vacations.  I have run spreadsheets, amortizing our costs, and including fees and their anticipated increases - this still is OK for us - just as it is, thank you.  We told them that we do not intend to ever attend another presentation - makes us uncomfortable, and is a mutual waste of time.


Clever!  My willingness to attend presentations has always been governed by the freebies.  When it's a four-hour catamaran cruise, then I'm in.  If it's a lousy 10,000 Marriott points, count me out.  Increasingly, though, my wife has balked at any and all presentations.  I guess HER time is worth more than $300/hour.  Regardless, we're no more likely to buy points than you are, because we too have mastered fifth grade arithmetic (and I might be insulting my fifth grader here).


----------



## OldPantry

Duplicate message.


----------



## stevenz96

We are multiple platinum week owners at Shadow Ridge, and just returned from our annual week there.  We joined and also bought the additional points to achieve Preferred status.  We spent a great deal of time with the representative who was also a multiple week owner, and to us, the benefits outweighed the negatives.  The key point is that for legacy owners, nothing really changes.  You still can occupy, trade for Marriott Reward points, or exchange for other units.  The advantage is that if you trade for Marriott units, there are no more II fees.  Also, there are no lockoff fees nor rewards exchange fees.  I was told that by purchasing points, it gives you ownership rights in ALL the Marriott Vacation Club locations (at least the domestic ones for now) which raises your exchange priority.  Finally, by being a Preferred member, you can use request use of points 13 months in advance, as well as request your floating week 13 months in advance without the need for consecutive or concurrent week reservations.

Since we live within easy driving distance of several desirable resorts (Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach), we thought the points option to use them for several long weekends was attractive to us.  Obviously time will tell, but we felt it was the best decision for us.


----------



## DanCali

stevenz96 said:


> Finally, by being a Preferred member, you can use request use of points 13 months in advance, as well as request your floating week 13 months in advance without the need for consecutive or concurrent week reservations.



Not sure that you can book your single week as a week at 13 months even if you are Premier in the DC club. 

Perhaps using points if you convert it to points and pay the skim?


----------



## dioxide45

DanCali said:


> Not sure that you can book your single week as a week at 13 months even if you are Premier in the DC club.
> 
> Perhaps using points if you convert it to points and pay the skim?



You are correct. As a Premier owner you can book using points for seven or more nights at the 13 month mark. Premier Plus can book any number of nights (even just one) at the 13 month mark. The number of points you have does not affect how early or late you can book your home resort under the weeks based system.


----------



## DanCali

dioxide45 said:


> You are correct. As a Premier owner you can book using points for seven or more nights at the 13 month mark. Premier Plus can book any number of nights (even just one) at the 13 month mark. The number of points you have does not affect how early or late you can book your home resort under the weeks based system.



i.e., most people would not be able to book an average demand week in their season at 13 months out because they will lack the necessary points...


----------



## suzannesimon

I'm undecided.  Since I own 2 non-lock-offs, the points might work well for me, but so far I've been happy with my II trades.  There are a lot of great resorts that aren't Marriotts.


----------



## thunderbolt

We had our presentation/intro to the new points system at the Marriott Grande Vista this week. We own 3 resale Platinum 2 bedroom weeks. We split to 6 weeks then annually upgrade the 3 lockoffs to 1 bedrooms at a total cost of $552/yr. We went in thinking joining was a good idea, with about a 6.5 yr. payback of the $1995. fee to join. Well by the time we got out of there we were convinced not to join. The rep. said there would not be any inventory for upgrades in the near future. We would have to buy 5000 pts. to be elevated to premier plus status at a cost of $51,100. ( we are now premier, not plus ) which seemed to be the focus of his efforts.
He said I.I. inventory would be steadily depleted as the new DC points bucket would swallow up the inventory. Our Legacy points were to be separate from trust points and not have access to the trust bucket. So.... if I cannot get upgrades to 3 - 1 bedrooms annually, my savings are only 3x75. = 225./ yr. for a payback period of 9 yrs. , a bit too long for us.
Note: we still need a separate I.I. account for other owned timeshares.
I think legacy weeks are still valuable for those who buy where they want to stay and therefore will hold their value after this downturn in the economy is over.


----------



## pwrshift

If you ever want to trade outside of the Marriott family, to Royal resorts perhaps, you'd still have to be a member of II...so what's the advantage?  If you check the Tug lists of to resorts, Marriott is not at the top.


----------



## dioxide45

pwrshift said:


> If you ever want to trade outside of the Marriott family, to Royal resorts perhaps, you'd still have to be a member of II...so what's the advantage?  If you check the Tug lists of to resorts, Marriott is not at the top.



In DC you are a member of II through the Marriott Corporate Account. You don't need a separate II account. You just have to pay the full II exchange fee. No free exchange fee when exchanging outside of Marriott resorts.


----------



## thunderbolt

Thanks for pointing that out Dioxide45 . I thought we needed 2 accounts with I.I. I still feel the entry fee and skim lost, is not worth the benefit gained, for our style of vacationing.


----------



## dioxide45

thunderbolt said:


> Thanks for pointing that out Dioxide45 . I thought we needed 2 accounts with I.I. I still feel the entry fee and skim lost, is not worth the benefit gained, for our style of vacationing.



If you have non Marriott weeks that you want to be able to exchange with in II, you will still need a separate II account.


----------



## billwright1

No, I will not be joining.


----------



## 4Reliefnow

jimf41 said:


> I joined and enrolled all weeks. So far I have made three reservations using the enrolled points at trust resorts without a problem. All my weeks were developer bought.



The last line says it all "All my weeks were developer bought"

Do the math, The point system is crazy expensive.  it is like buying your weeks form the developer.  Does it ever make sense to buy your weeks from the developer?

paid $5,000 for Marriott Grande Vista Platinum
Paid $8,000 for Marriott Canyon Villas Platinum

In fact I don't think it ever pays to buy a non-platinum week.  You can rent on TUG with a lot more flexibility for just what the annual maintenance is.  And no maintenance next year.


----------



## ldj5280

*MVCI Dumped by Marriott-Tell Bill Marriott...*

After years of treating MVCI members in such a way that their investments were a bad choice:
-o- year over year spikes in mntc fees
-o- more and more fees for trading to II or for points
-o- lower and lower available occupancy
-o- DC
-o- and now SPINNING MVCI OFF!

Tell Bill Marriott that this is NOT how you treat loyal investors and guests at:
www.blogs.marriott.com/marriott-on-...riott-vacation-club/comments/page/1/#comments 

and on Twitter https://twitter.com/marriottintl

ONLY WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE OUR RESORTS and INVESTMENT BACK


----------



## rundmc

*inactive blog ??*

Bill's message and the subsequest posts are now two months old.  I wonder if he will provide a response or at least a comment.  I have six weeks and joined.


----------



## tatmtr7

Okay, we joined the DC too mainly to save fees.


----------



## amisco

*I enrolled*

The program works for me.


----------



## ArtQuilterPainter

*We enrolled too.*



amisco said:


> The program works for me.



Already have used our points for exactly what we wanted to go with next year's trip to Aruba ... no more week in a lockout for us!


----------



## Whirl

winger said:


> The DC is all about flexibility (of course, at a price)...
> 
> Just one note about doing the Sun-Fri then supplementing with a hotel stay for the weekend.  We just 'experimented' with 3 nights at NCV (Newport), then two nights a Residence Inn, then a move back into NCV for 7 nights.  All the moving, unpacking/repacking, checkins/outs (especially with two young kids and boatload of Costco food) - it was a unique experience, but we may not like to make this into a habit/choice of travel every year as the vacation can be taken up with an abundant amout of 'in-transit' time.  If it were just two of us with a couple of small luggages, maybe, it would be less 'disruptive'.



There is no way, I would ever do this unless there is just  no other option.  We tried  a watered down version of this also in the summer; We added only ONE additional  front-end night at Crystal shores and had to move rooms because the same view as our subsequent exchange week  was not avail. This was only within the same resort, a few doors down on the same floor and it was a HUGE pain. We have 3 young kids and we had to be out by 10 and the other room wasn't ready until 4. It was really a mess.  Kids had no where to nap, had to change in the bathrooms....we wasted a day because we had to shop twice since we had no where to put the food while homeless and had to go back out to get more once re-situated. I knew it would be hard, but it was far worse than I had even anticipated.  Even travelling as a couple, when I go on vacation, I want to minimize inconveniences. 

I have not yet signed up for the DC , but plan to ( still  a little reluctant, thus dragging my feet), and I am happy for flexibility. That is definitely worth something to me. What I have always hated most about timesharing is the exchanging and not knowing what view you want and the ordeal it can be if the exact check-in dates are not what you want or trying to secure 2 or more units at a time, which we almost always need and having trouble matching the dates. DC ( albeit still somewhat theoretically) largely reduces the exchange angst and view uncertainty.


----------



## m61376

Now that the program has been around for awhile, has anyone changed their minds about joining?


----------



## JimC

m61376 said:


> Now that the program has been around for awhile, has anyone changed their minds about joining?



I'm still not joining.  Don't see any significant additional value for us based on our use.  There is certainly no way I can see justifying the conversion cost and additional fee.


----------



## Gaff

No, I've been to 3 presentations and do not see the benefit to me. I have to pay marriott again for something I already own?? They also pull out the scare tactics that there will no longer be Marriott exchanges on II (supply). Won't that increase the trading power of my Marriotts ??? I find the whole thing desperate and I don't mind if I have to trade into a Hyatt, Hilton, Disney, Embassy, etc.


----------



## Gaff

Forgot to mention that at one of the presentations the 'Salesman' explained to me how the system would allow me to stay at a one bedroom marriott in kauai for my 2 bedroom marriott in orlando  plus $1500 extra for the premium location. I then explained to him how I got a 1 bedroom oceanview marriott in kauai for my 'lockoff' studio in orlando. They can stick the 'Program'!!!!


----------



## brianfox

This poll should have included the choice:
"My Marriott week(s) are not eligible"


----------



## dioxide45

brianfox said:


> This poll should have included the choice:
> "My Marriott week(s) are not eligible"



I really think the whole poll needs to be reset. Those that voted I am not sure what to do, may have now figured it out.


----------



## Whirl

*joined*

I joined last week. I will have 4 weeks in the system and 3 weeks out of the system, so I should be able to nicely work and test both options going forward to achieve our travel choices. Only two of my 7 weeks are developer weeks, so this allowed me an option to "legitimize" two resale weeks to create a  nice chunk of Marriott rewards points, if ever desired. I can still exchange, which is not a process I enjoy or use much, but I have retain the option. I can Rent when feasible and use the proceeds to rent something else,  use when we want,  and still potentially have plenty of DC club points to put to work to get desired views, locations, and dates....we hope. 

Now to start really learning the ins and outs of the plan. 

Wish me luck!


----------



## mas

Whirl said:


> ...Wish me luck!



Luck!


----------



## Karenann

Still trying to figure it out


----------



## Bear1980

Heading over to Maui on Saturday.  I really don't think I'm going to do it.

Plus, I need to ask them why they haven't mailed me by deeds yet when I paid for them 2 years ago and last year.


----------



## Bear1980

Just met with my rep.  I have to say, having Maui as my home resort has really made this Points program look interesting.  Being able to trade a week for club points can get me a long way with some of the cheaper properties.  I can see why those owner might not like this.  After all, they'd need to buy a lot of points to have a shot at staying at one of the high demand resorts.


----------



## Bear1980

SueDonJ said:


> Diane, I would say you have a pretty good understanding of the fee structure and the way you'll be able to do everything in II.
> 
> Yes, it appears that if you enroll in the DC and continue to do the same amount of Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges through II using your lock-offs, then your $165 annual Club Dues will be less than the Marriott/II per/transaction fees you'll be paying if you don't enroll.  But in any year if you simply use your one Week as a 7-day home resort stay, which would cost you nothing in transaction fees, you will still have to pay the $165 Club Dues to remain enrolled in the DC (similar to paying II annual fees even in years that you don't exchange.)
> 
> Yes, we who have enrolled are able to use the same II interface to search and process exchanges and Getaways in our new/corporate II accounts.  There are no fees for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges; the same II fees will exist for outside-Marriott exchanges.
> 
> As you know there are no guarantees that either II or Marriott won't increase fees at any time, and that includes whether or not Club Dues will always be less than per-transaction fees for the particular way you use your Weeks.  But you're right in that if they each are raised proportionally then you'll be ahead of the game.  If at any time you're not, you can choose to un-enroll from the DC.
> 
> Many of us who have enrolled our Week(s) have not purchased additional DC Points but have still managed to use the 800 PlusPoints bonus.  You could try to add a couple days to existing reservations, maybe do an unexpected weekend away within driving distance, maybe offer a night or two as a gift to family or friends.  The PlusPoints cannot be transferred or banked so their use is limited, but I'm sure we could help you figure out how to use them instead of having them expire.
> 
> The one variable that is most unknown at this time is the effect of the DC on availability of both Marriott and II inventory.  There are quite a few threads going with folks trying to figure out if we're already seeing effects or will in the future.  But my thinking is that if there are adverse effects on availability, enrolled Owners will be able to choose among more usage options to try to counter such effects.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.  The DC works for some and not for others depending upon what's owned and how it's used most often.  Generally speaking it makes less sense for owners of one Week who rarely exchange, and most sense for multi-week Owners who exchange often or want to take advantage of the less-than-7-days-stay opportunities.



This really is a great post.


----------



## dmharris

Bear1980 said:


> This really is a great post.




I agree and Sue made it months ago to me and I've still not made a decision.  So I'm wondering, Sue to you in particular, do you still stand by your well crafted response or has anything happened to change your mind?  

We're at the point where we normally reserve our 2012 year and I'm trying to decide if I want to pay for the DC with cash that is tight this year or not.


----------



## Galtha58

*Likely will not join the points system*

At this point I can't see the advantage to paying to join a points system. 
We own one resale purchased week at Hilton Head in an old be very well kept complex. Seems that joining the points system would give us the option of paying more to stay with II and use the Marriott points system as well or dropping II and paying to use the Marriott system. Does not seem like a value to me. 

But, not sure I really understand the points system yet, either. Seems like a way for Marriott to make more $$ and take some business from II and/or RCI. 
Where is the value in this points system for someone like me?  
Thanks!


----------



## SueDonJ

Bear1980 said:


> This really is a great post.





dmharris said:


> I agree and Sue made it months ago to me and I've still not made a decision.  So I'm wondering, Sue to you in particular, do you still stand by your well crafted response or has anything happened to change your mind?
> 
> We're at the point where we normally reserve our 2012 year and I'm trying to decide if I want to pay for the DC with cash that is tight this year or not.



Thanks.     It is difficult to understand everything so I'm glad I could help a little.

Diane, I still think the same as I did then especially with respect to the future of availability of II exchanges.  I'm convinced the DC is having a negative effect on it, but don't know if the effects we're seeing now will continue at the same rate.  Most of us think that as time goes on and Marriott gets a good idea of how much inventory needs to be available for DC exchanges, then more intervals will be available in II.  Right now it seems like Marriott is holding on to intervals and not depositing them into II until 10 months or so before the check-in dates.

You could reserve your 2012 Weeks as usual and hold off on your decision until you're certain.  (Just keep in mind that there is a deadline of 6/30 for the current enrollment pricing - no idea if this will be extended again or not.)  My 2011 Weeks were already booked when I enrolled and it was no problem to cancel one of those reservations and convert the Week to DC Points.


----------



## Ec4

We own 3 Marriott weeks in US, 2 in Spain, and 2 in Phuket.  First issue is that Europe and Asia are not in the DC.  Second issue is that you lose value (the same week costs more points than you get for deposit), not that you necessarily would do that, but it shows the "gift" you give to Marriott for the privilege.  So, no, we won't join. I think it is bad business and it makes me think less of Marriott as a company.


----------



## Gaff

I've already posted my "NO" for the poll, but I have noticed that the price of marriott resales has dropped since the program began. If you check ebay and other resale markets you will see a firesale going on. I am wondering why marriott is not grabbing them up (ROFR) to expand their inventory for the program? It appears that they would rather have us pay them for their inventory needs...... 'P T Barnum' ~ "One every minute".


----------



## dioxide45

Gaff said:


> I've already posted my "NO" for the poll, but I have noticed that the price of marriott resales has dropped since the program began. If you check ebay and other resale markets you will see a firesale going on. I am wondering why marriott is not grabbing them up (ROFR) to expand their inventory for the program? It appears that they would rather have us pay them for their inventory needs...... 'P T Barnum' ~ "One every minute".



Until they run out of trust points to sell, they won't be ROFR much.


----------



## sharo

*sharon*

I have joined but not a good exchange  unless you own platinum..the "old" Interval exchange offers a much much better deal to lower value shares. .Marriott has assured me (ha ha) that the inventory to Interval will be the same (ha ha-for how long) so I may still do the exchanges (as I continue to do).
As timeshares (or if and when) gain value again I can see Marriott and others witholding inventory to build up point only sales-it will be their onky option to sell timeshares....soooo if a majority of timeshare owners opt into the program their shares will auto be deposited into the Marriott destination club and we lower value owners are hurting ourselves as near as I see. Id timeshare market still declines for a long time-then we are really in for it (higher maintainence and closing of unsold units- being closed or put into hotel type rentals.


----------



## dioxide45

sharo said:


> I have joined but not a good exchange  unless you own platinum..the "old" Interval exchange offers a much much better deal to lower value shares. .Marriott has assured me (ha ha) that the inventory to Interval will be the same (ha ha-for how long) so I may still do the exchanges (as I continue to do).
> As timeshares (or if and when) gain value again I can see Marriott and others witholding inventory to build up point only sales-it will be their onky option to sell timeshares....soooo if a majority of timeshare owners opt into the program their shares will auto be deposited into the Marriott destination club and we lower value owners are hurting ourselves as near as I see. Id timeshare market still declines for a long time-then we are really in for it (higher maintainence and closing of unsold units- being closed or put into hotel type rentals.



I would agree, people who own a few Hawaii weeks or other prime properties can pull off some great exchanges. Those of us with a single or couple of weeks that don't have a bundle of points, don't have nearly as much flexibility unless we want to use up three years of timeshare weeks by banking and borrowing.


----------



## infamazz

*Point Value can easily be inflated away*

Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020. 

Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).


----------



## dioxide45

infamazz said:


> Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020.
> 
> Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).



Have we even seen a 2013 points chart yet? No guaranty things won't change for 2013.


----------



## m61376

infamazz said:


> Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020.
> 
> Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).



Where was this written? I knew that they left themselves an "out" to readjust point allocations, presumably based on usage patterns, in the future, but not that they only fixed the point cost until 2013. Very interesting....


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## infamazz

I called up last year when I was debating whether or not to enter the program. I asked directly "Is Marriott guaranteeing that the point amounts for a given week at a given location will remain the same always, since the calendars for the points required are only through 2012?" 

-- BTW, I got the year wrong, as the other commenter pointed out. The points are fixed only through 2012, not 2013 --

The Marriott rep told me that Marriott reserves the right to increase the required points, and that they can only guarantee they will remain the same through 2012. Specifically, in order to assuage my concerns, the rep said I should "trust Marriott to do what is in the best interests of the owners."

Obviously Marriott has not made any definitive public statements that they intend to raise the required points amount at a future time since this would seriously hurt participation in the DC program now. However, it is only common sense - inflating away the value of the DC points opens a new stream of revenue as owners are required to periodically purchase new DC points. Common sense, plus the company leaving the door wide open, equals the inevitable.


----------



## mjm1

It will interesting to see what they do.  We own the points program at Welk Resorts and if they increase the points required for certain weeks they must reduce the points required for other weeks, so that the total number of points in the system remain the same.  I haven't seen the details of the Marriott program, but one would think a similar requirement would be in place from a legal perspective.


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## arubalover60

This might not mean anything, but if you go into the MVCI "introduction to points" calculators you can access points amounts through 2013 and 2014 is crossed out. So that might mean that the 2013 points amounts will be same as 2010 - 2012, but who knows?


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## Run4Fun

I found this site when Marriott introduced the new Points Program and I've learned a lot from all the posts here (Thanks to all).  I was against joining, but lately I've been reconsidering just to save on the fees.  I have a couple of weeks deposited in II and I find myself depositing and trading on a week from a prior year because I have a limited amount of vacation and I never catch up.  

I had read a while back that you give up your voting rights when joining DC but I think it was found to no be the case - can anyone clarify that? 

If I do decide to join, I can't see myself ever trading for DC Points.  I've had good luck trading through II and I hope that will continue even with the new program.  I'm sure that a lot of Legacy owners who have joined the DC program will continue to book at their home resort or trade through II and that inventory will still be available for trades.


----------



## lrf

*New MVC points system*

We recently visited MVC Harbour Lakes. Our sales representative told us about 40% of "old system" owners had converted to the new system and that they expect Marriott will get the rest to switch within 2 years. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## dioxide45

lrf said:


> We recently visited MVC Harbour Lakes. Our sales representative told us about 40% of "old system" owners had converted to the new system and that they expect Marriott will get the rest to switch within 2 years. Any thoughts on this?



They will never get everyone to switch unless they drop the enrollment fee a lot or make it free. Same with the annual fee. For many people it just doesn't make sense. Those that use their home resort every year will get no benefit and would pay more in fees. They also can't get those post 6/20 resales in because currently they are "banned". Marriott doesn't seem to be budging on that either.


----------



## divenski

For me, it will be a split decision.

Enroll Waiohai, but not a Mountainside ski week.

I don't really need the full 2-bdrm of WAI, and because there is no L/O, there is no way to get 2 weeks thru II, but with careful planning, there is with ~5K DC Points. Yes, getting an AC is a way to get 2 weeks in II, but they are restricted, cost extra money, etc.

However, MOU is great to use, and if needed, is a strong trader which can be split. Also, it's been easy to rent.


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## mjm1

We just returned from a 2 night weekend stay at Timber Lodge courtesy of our 800 club points for enrolling.  Had a nice relaxing time with clear skies, 75 degree weather and snow capped mountains.  The waterfalls we saw while driving around the lake were really flowing too.

We decided to spend some time listening to a 30 minute overview of the DC program.  The salesman said 99% of owners had enrolled, which I knew wasn't correct.  In fact, we received our annual owner's letter from Desert Springs and they indicated that 23% of owners at the resort had enrolled.  That seems very reasonable.  At any rate, I followed up with another salesman after the presentation and asked him about it.  He corrected it and said that 98% of owners who meet with a representative enroll in the DC program.  Of course, that could be at the Timber Lodge location.  I still find that number hard to believe.

They really pushed the idea of buying points so you can "supercharge" your legacy points.  We thought about it, but decided not to do it.  If we need extra points, I figure we can rent them from another owner.

I liked Greg T's thread regarding the management of the inventory.  It makes sense that we should view the DC points owners as that is their home resort.  They have priority to book first, but than unused time should be available to legacy owners who are interested in "trading into" these other resorts.


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## Rubaman

The new point system takes away more flexibility then it gives you.  It limits or discontinues lock off, banking weeks, trading for my own resort, etc.  I don't like the idea of being given less points than it takes to stay at your home resort.

I think it is just a further revenue generator in disguise.

Just say no to the point system!


----------



## jpc763

Several of my family members are also multi-week owners with Marriott.  We are all "developer week" owners and I did some analysis a year ago.

I was working on Spring Break 2011 planning and here is my summary...

For our Spring Break 2011 we deposited our 3 BR unit in Orlando and request a few destinations (Aruba, St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Oahu or Kauai).  Eventually we matched up with Ko Olina for a 2 BR.  So we got a week for a week, exchanged Orlando for Hawaii.  A pretty good deal for us.

With this new program, each of our properties carry the following value in Vacation Club Points (you can get yours on the MVCI website) – 
Shadow Ridge – 2325 points
Ko Olina – 4025 points
Imperial Palms – 2425 points.

In the new system, we would exchange our Orlando week for Vacation Club Points (2425 for Orlando week).  We would then request a 7 day stay at any of the above resorts.  The “price” is as follows:
Aruba – 4575 points
St. Thomas – 4125 points
St. Kitts – 3725 points
Oahu – 4500 points
Kauai – 4725 points

So we would not be able to stay at any of these at all for our points.  We would have to save the points for 2 years to get 1 week.

Just for laughs, what would I be able to get for our Spring Break week.

Palm Desert?
Shadow Ridge – 4000 points – Nope…
Desert Springs I – 4225 points – still no.
Desert Springs II – 3775 points – again no.

Arizona?
Canyon Villas – 4125 points – Nada.

Can we go anywhere???

How about back to Orlando?
Cypress Harbor – 2900 points – Still no.
Grande Vista – 4225 points
Imperial Palms (The week we cashed in) – 2675 points
Royal & Sable Palms – 2450 points – close, but no.

So we cannot even get the week back that we cashed in AND we cannot trade for a smaller place!

But, we can go to Vail!!! 
Streamside (Birch units, the least expensive) – 1450 points!

Or Fairway Villas (in New Jersey) – 1775 points!

Or Hilton Head (Harbour Club – 1725, Heritage Club – 1900 points)

So I am not impressed with this “benefit” and see it as a way that Marriott will decrease the Interval International inventory of Marriott properties that I have been trading for.

Since then, my brother enrolled his 2 weeks (Desert Springs I, Waiohai EOY, Newport Coast EOY) and tried to convince me that it was a good deal.

It still looks like a lousy deal.  Am I totally missing something?

For reference, we always occupy our Ko Olina EOY and our Shadow Ridge EOY and usually trade our Imperial Palms EOY.

John


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## DanCali

jpc763 said:


> It still looks like a lousy deal.  Am I totally missing something?



IMO, no...


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## smadak

We own 2 weeks.  We are still up in hte air about joining the points system, but it looks like it wouldn't be good for us.  We usually go to our home resort in Orlando, then use our other resort to trade.  so far trading through II has worked for us.  We just got back from Hilton Head on a trade through II (we traded up in Marriott to Marriott resorts as well).  
If we join points It would take both of our weeks points to trade for one week at a nice Marriott resort.  For the past 8 years we have had 2 weeks of vacations, but if we go to points we would not have enough to get this done.
Plus, why do I have to pay Marriott to join the system, when I have already bought 2 weeks and pay maintenance fees every year.
If the cut the enrollment fee in half or more, then it would be more intriguing.  I don't believe when they tell me that 90% of Marriott owners voter for this.


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## CMF

*Decided - Joined: converted two weeks and purchased 2K points.*



CMF said:


> I have not given this detailed thought.  We have an encore presentation scheduled for August and they will apply the $2000 we paid for the encore program to our points purchase should we buy at that time. If we buy, I will enroll what weeks I can at no charge and buy maybe the minimum amount of points.  I will put it all under the magnifying glass as time nears.
> 
> My poll answer is UNDECIDED.
> 
> Charles



How can I change my poll answer now that I decided to buy?

Charles


----------



## dioxide45

CMF said:


> How can I change my poll answer now that I decided to buy?
> 
> Charles



See post 136, you can't and DaveM is MIA.


----------



## chipse

*MVCI points*

No will not convert to points. I see it as a dilution of value


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## dmharris

So after ignoring this for awhile, I do have to make a decision.  We chatted online with a Marriott customer service agent to understand our options and we believe even though we only own one week, because we exchange it always, we'll save money after 3 years.  So we're joining but NOT converting to points.  EVER!

Also after watching II inventory I believe Marriott is holding back.  What do the rest of you think?


----------



## dmharris

Also, as a market researcher, I would love to know the percent of owners who joined the club AND what percent of those have chosen to stay with weeks vs. points.  It is misleading to only have former without the latter.  Just my professional 2 cents.


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## msvalenti

*Not Joining...downgrade for some owners*

I purchased resale and would not be able to even come close to making the trades that I did in the past with my week.  Marriott has alot of resorts but they have nothing in hot areas like Mexico, Puerto Rico, and a good portion of the Carribean.  Seems like they are not expanding as rapidly as in the past.  If they are building new resorts they are building them in the same areas like Florida.  If you want to trade for Marriott rewards you are not getting the same value for your villas Category for Category.  For instance,  I own Cypress Harbor and it is listed as a category 6 in the reward points system which equates to 30,000 points per night.  If I trade my villa for points it's only worth 110,000 points which only redeems for 3 nights in a category 6 hotel /resort.  If you trade your points for miles or cruises you usually won't even get your maintenance fees worth of flights or cruises.  Not valuable options IMO.  They say that the reward points for developer weeks and resale weeks are the same, I'm wondering if this is true and can anyone confirm this.  

Thanks,
Maria


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## blobuono

We too have yet to see how this benefit anyone but MVC.


----------



## mikebeeson

dmharris said:


> So after ignoring this for awhile, I do have to make a decision.  We chatted online with a Marriott customer service agent to understand our options and we believe even though we only own one week, because we exchange it always, we'll save money after 3 years.  So we're joining but NOT converting to points.  EVER!
> 
> Also after watching II inventory I believe Marriott is holding back.  What do the rest of you think?



I ABSOLUTELY think they are holding back. We submitted our 2 bedroom Timberlodge week for Ko Olina in November ( we went last year at the same time and the place was empty) and we cant even get a 1 bedroom. This is very fishy. I think they are giving the point owners a priority. Even holding inventory open until the last minute to see if people will use points to reserve before handing the room to Interval for us week-traders. I think we ALL need to make noise. I'm going to review our contracts to see if they are violating our ownership agreement.


----------



## EKniager

mikebeeson said:


> I ABSOLUTELY think they are holding back. We submitted our 2 bedroom Timberlodge week for Ko Olina in November ( we went last year at the same time and the place was empty) and we cant even get a 1 bedroom. This is very fishy. I think they are giving the point owners a priority. Even holding inventory open until the last minute to see if people will use points to reserve before handing the room to Interval for us week-traders. I think we ALL need to make noise. I'm going to review our contracts to see if they are violating our ownership agreement.



We visited Grand Dunes last month and finally went through the points sales pitch.  The system was different from what we expected but the economics still did not make sense to us.  Why get less points for our Aruba Surf Club than what a platinum week costs?  Made no sense if we were going to use Aruba.

Our sales women got visibly upset with me when she figured out I knew the system too well and asked pointed questions like, "Why would I pay $25K to buy a points week when I can buy another Aruba platinum week on the secondary market for <$20K?"  She blamed our thought process on our being engineers.  Worse, she told me I couldn't look at this as a financial decision and my hesitation was caused by "analysis -paralysis."  I almost came out of my chair!  Also, she claimed it was going to be more difficult to exchange thru II in the future as Marriott would be holding the destinations (that were part of this new landtrust) for points owners.  I guess that's what I get for bragging that two years in a row we have been able to trade our lockoff for a two-bedroom at some other Marriott location (HH and Williamsburg).  I have to admit though, if trading our of Aruba becomes a real pain-in-the-butt, we will just have to turn it into a rental property.

I should have come on here sooner while everything from our discussion was still fresh in my mind so that I could have done some fact checking.


----------



## dmharris

Thanks this confirms my fear.  This is not what we agreed to when we purchased in 2006; the rules of the game have changed and we 'owners' have absolutely no say.   This stinks.


----------



## DanCali

dmharris said:


> Thanks this confirms my fear.  This is not what we agreed to when we purchased in 2006; the rules of the game have changed and we 'owners' have absolutely no say.   This stinks.



If there was no skim and an "exchange first" feature, this could have been an attractive program. Marriott got so greedy that the biggest selling point of the Destination Club (to anyone who has some understanding of the system) is the "fee savings."

When joining an exchange system to save on fees is the best reason to join, that already speaks volumes of the quality of the actual exchange system...

Step 1 - hook people in with the alleged promise of fee savings. Step 2 - make the II system so inconvenient to force people to use the DC and incur skim each time they use it. Step 3 - take the company public while they charge enrollment fees. Step 4 - increase fees and create new fees (under the disguise of "listening to our customers" of course) if and when enrollment fees dry up???


----------



## thinze3

Just like any program, there are those who will learn to use it to their advantage. Also, to some owners, like those with ocean view or ocean front summer weeks on Hilton Head Island, it's a no brainer to join because of there high assigned values and low MF's.

Skim?  There is also the expiration of points at the end of each year.  Would that be a double skim?


----------



## SueDonJ

thinze3 said:


> Just like any program, there are those who will learn to use it to their advantage. Also, to some owners, like those with ocean view or ocean front summer weeks on Hilton Head Island, it's a no brainer to join because of there high assigned values and low MF's.
> 
> Skim?  There is also the expiration of points at the end of each year.  Would that be a double skim?



Not sure how you make that leap from not reserving usage to skim?     In that respect Points are exactly like Weeks - if you don't make a reservation to use (home resort stay, exchange, rent, etc...) them during your Use Period/Season, you lose them.


----------



## OldPantry

SueDonJ said:


> Not sure how you make that leap from not reserving usage to skim?     In that respect Points are exactly like Weeks - if you don't make a reservation to use (home resort stay, exchange, rent, etc...) them during your Use Period/Season, you lose them.



Really Susan, I think you slipped here.  What about the exceedingly common situation where a reservation used most, but not all of your bonus points (given for joining the DC)?  What happened to those babies?  That a far different situation than letting a whole week go unused.  I don't think it's unfair to view the wastage of surplus points as a form of skim.  And is this the only situation where unused stray points get absorbed by Marriott?  Just inquiring, as I haven't  joined the DC (doesn't pay with a single legacy EOY).


----------



## SueDonJ

OldPantry said:


> Really Susan, I think you slipped here.  What about the exceedingly common situation where a reservation used most, but not all of your bonus points (given for joining the DC)?  What happened to those babies?  That a far different situation than letting a whole week go unused.  I don't think it's unfair to view the wastage of surplus points as a form of skim.  And is this the only situation where unused stray points get absorbed by Marriott?  Just inquiring, as I haven't  joined the DC (doesn't pay with a single legacy EOY).



You know, you're right - that thought never occurred to me.  Good pick-up.   

When I think of skim in Marriott's program, I think of the way it's been defined by so many on TUG as a built-in design of the DC - that practically none of the enrolled Weeks are allotted enough Points to cover the cost of a home resort stay in season or a like-for-like exchange.  The prevailing thought has been that the skim factor was deliberately designed by Marriott as a way for them to gain some measure of value from every enrolled Week that's been converted to DC Points.  TUG-savvy owners who choose to convert an enrolled Week to Points acknowledge this form of skim exists and that it is Marriott-induced.  While the form you mention is certainly valid, I wouldn't say it's Marriott-induced - the control of how DC Points from a converted Week are used rests solely with the owner who chooses to make the conversion.  Marriott has no chance of collecting "orphaned" Points unless an owner leaves Points in that vulnerable position by not using them.


----------



## OldPantry

SueDonJ said:


> You know, you're right - that thought never occurred to me.  Good pick-up.
> 
> When I think of skim in Marriott's program, I think of the way it's been defined by so many on TUG as a built-in design of the DC - that practically none of the enrolled Weeks are allotted enough Points to cover the cost of a home resort stay in season or a like-for-like exchange.  The prevailing thought has been that the skim factor was deliberately designed by Marriott as a way for them to gain some measure of value from every enrolled Week that's been converted to DC Points.  TUG-savvy owners who choose to convert an enrolled Week to Points acknowledge this form of skim exists and that it is Marriott-induced.  While the form you mention is certainly valid, I wouldn't say it's Marriott-induced - the control of how DC Points from a converted Week are used rests solely with the owner who chooses to make the conversion.  Marriott has no chance of collecting "orphaned" Points unless an owner leaves Points in that vulnerable position by not using them.


Well, if "surplus" Marriott DC points expire, and don't roll over from year to year, then I would definitely call that a major skim, and certainly by design.  
In fact, it would be pretty hard to avoid, wouldn't it?  Or can 2012 points be nicely joined to 2013, and 2014, and so on?  Then this form of skim would only apply to bonus points issued for joining up.


----------



## SueDonJ

OldPantry said:


> Well, if "surplus" Marriott DC points expire, and don't roll over from year to year, then I would definitely call that a major skim, and certainly by design.
> In fact, it would be pretty hard to avoid, wouldn't it?  Or can 2012 points be nicely joined to 2013, and 2014, and so on?  Then this form of skim would only apply to bonus points issued for joining up.



Isn't there a use-it-or-lose-it deadline in any Points system?  I would think there would have to be, because otherwise owners could stockpile from year to year and thoroughly mess up the inventory controls.  I'll admit I only know the rules in two Points systems - Marriott's and DVC's - and in both of those you have to either use your Points in their Use Year or bank them into the following year by a certain date.  Theoretically, if banking was allowed indefinitely, couldn't a situation arise where there are not enough accommodations for the number of owners who have usage in a certain year?

The 800 bonus Points given as an enrollment incentive have more restrictions on usage than the Points you get from converting an enrolled Week.  Bonus Points can't be banked or transferred to another owner, so yes, if you don't manage them carefully then you'll lose however many are "orphaned."  You could call that a form of skim, I guess, but the owner didn't actually pay a per-Point fee for them.  They're a one-time incentive and if I lost them because of the expiration rules, it would be difficult for me to think that Marriott "cheated" me out of something.  At least not in the way that most TUGgers say they feel cheated by the skim that exists when a Points allotment is not enough to book the same Week given up for the Points.

Those types of Points have more usage options than the one-time Bonus Points, in that they can be banked into the next year or transferred in a private transaction to another DC Points enrollee/owner.  Or a reservation made with them could be rented to anyone.  Granted, there are still deadlines for using them and if you don't manage to use all of them you will eventually lose them.  But that responsibility for managing them falls on the owner, not on Marriott.  That's why I say that if you want to call such loss a skim it makes a certain sense but IMO it's not similar to the built-in skim that occurs with a majority of Marriott Weeks, which automatically gives Marriott value each time an enrollee converts those certain Weeks to Points.

It really all comes down to, in both Points and Weeks systems owners stand to lose usage if they do not manage the ownership according to the rules.  Points systems allow more of the "orphan" situations because Points can be broken up for single-day use, and Points requirements for stays may not be uniform across all resorts within a system.  (Which, they're not uniform in both Marriott's and Disney's systems.)  But I've also learned reading TUG that there are a certain percentage of timeshare owners who do not use their ownership at all, so obviously plenty of Weeks go un-used too.     If we call those situations "skim" then I guess we have to call non-usage of any Points "skim" as well.  But the "blame" (if that's the correct word and I'm not sure it is) for this new form of skim lies with the owner who didn't use them, and not with Marriott.  If the owner manages every Point allotted according to the rules, just like with Weeks, Marriott has no way of taking added value from them.


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## OldPantry

SueDonJ said:


> Isn't there a use-it-or-lose-it deadline in any Points system?  I would think there would have to be, because otherwise owners could stockpile from year to year and thoroughly mess up the inventory controls.  I'll admit I only know the rules in two Points systems - Marriott's and DVC's - and in both of those you have to either use your Points in their Use Year or bank them into the following year by a certain date.  Theoretically, if banking was allowed indefinitely, couldn't a situation arise where there are not enough accommodations for the number of owners who have usage in a certain year?
> 
> The 800 bonus Points given as an enrollment incentive have more restrictions on usage than the Points you get from converting an enrolled Week.  Bonus Points can't be banked or transferred to another owner, so yes, if you don't manage them carefully then you'll lose however many are "orphaned."  You could call that a form of skim, I guess, but the owner didn't actually pay a per-Point fee for them.  They're a one-time incentive and if I lost them because of the expiration rules, it would be difficult for me to think that Marriott "cheated" me out of something.  At least not in the way that most TUGgers say they feel cheated by the skim that exists when a Points allotment is not enough to book the same Week given up for the Points.
> 
> Those types of Points have more usage options than the one-time Bonus Points, in that they can be banked into the next year or transferred in a private transaction to another DC Points enrollee/owner.  Or a reservation made with them could be rented to anyone.  Granted, there are still deadlines for using them and if you don't manage to use all of them you will eventually lose them.  But that responsibility for managing them falls on the owner, not on Marriott.  That's why I say that if you want to call such loss a skim it makes a certain sense but IMO it's not similar to the built-in skim that occurs with a majority of Marriott Weeks, which automatically gives Marriott value each time an enrollee converts those certain Weeks to Points.
> 
> It really all comes down to, in both Points and Weeks systems owners stand to lose usage if they do not manage the ownership according to the rules.  Points systems allow more of the "orphan" situations because Points can be broken up for single-day use, and Points requirements for stays may not be uniform across all resorts within a system.  (Which, they're not uniform in both Marriott's and Disney's systems.)  But I've also learned reading TUG that there are a certain percentage of timeshare owners who do not use their ownership at all, so obviously plenty of Weeks go un-used too.     If we call those situations "skim" then I guess we have to call non-usage of any Points "skim" as well.  But the "blame" (if that's the correct word and I'm not sure it is) for this new form of skim lies with the owner who didn't use them, and not with Marriott.  If the owner manages every Point allotted according to the rules, just like with Weeks, Marriott has no way of taking added value from them.


No, your explanation clarifies the difference between the use 'em or lose 'em nature of the bonus points, which clearly do have skim built in, as one is unlikely to be able to use exactly 800 points.  If you can bank 2012 points for full usage in 2013, then any failure to use them is, as you say, the owner's responsibility.


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## Gaff

It is really amazing watching the postings of those that have joined trying to convince those that haven't joined that they are missing an opportunity. I do not believe that Marriott has any plans to invest in building any more timeshares. It seems that they are quietly trying to pry themselves loose while still making a buck as they exit. I recently purchased 2 Marriott Custom Houses for a combined $11,000. Marriott made no effort (ROFR) to lock them up for their 'Destinations' inventory. It is my unsolicited advice to those who have not joined or are on the fence to wait and see. I am always suspicious when someone tells me that if I don't buy now I won't be able to. That is the sales pitch of a desperate man!!!!


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## robichaudj

*On the fence...advice welcome*

We own EOY 1 bed/OF at Kauai beach club, on the fence on enrolling at $1500 (we bought external, Marriott values our week at 3375 points).  We typically use, have never exchanged through II, but would love to get points that we could use to get into Waiohai.

For example, we could convert half our 3375 to 54K MR points, bank the other half into the following year, the during that next calendar year we could borrow forward from the following year to get 5062 points to use for Waiohai.  We're basically swapping two years use of a 1 bed for one year use of a 2 bed (and some MR points).  

Is that worth $1500?
Is it easier to just try and swap our KBC (and some cash) for Waiohai with an interested Waiohai owner on TUG?
Are we naive to think the points would get us access to Waiohai (as we would be in line behind the Waiohai owners...)?

Just came back from Kauai, sales rep tried to sell us on enrolling pretty hard, he also acknowledged Marriott was keeping inventory out of II.

All advice from seasoned TUG users is welcome.


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## robichaudj

*Relative to Gaff's post*

...agree no new timeshare builds anytime soon, note that Marriott corporation has spun the timeshare business off as a stand alone corporation.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703584804576144633684101742.html


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## SueDonJ

BostonKeo said:


> We own EOY 1 bed/OF at Kauai beach club, on the fence on enrolling at $1500 (we bought external, Marriott values our week at 3375 points).  We typically use, have never exchanged through II, but would love to get points that we could use to get into Waiohai.
> 
> For example, we could convert half our 3375 to 54K MR points, bank the other half into the following year, the during that next calendar year we could borrow forward from the following year to get 5062 points to use for Waiohai.  We're basically swapping two years use of a 1 bed for one year use of a 2 bed (and some MR points).
> 
> Is that worth $1500?
> Is it easier to just try and swap our KBC (and some cash) for Waiohai with an interested Waiohai owner on TUG?
> Are we naive to think the points would get us access to Waiohai (as we would be in line behind the Waiohai owners...)?
> 
> Just came back from Kauai, sales rep tried to sell us on enrolling pretty hard, he also acknowledged Marriott was keeping inventory out of II.
> 
> All advice from seasoned TUG users is welcome.



It's true that if you enroll your Week, you will gain the Marriott Rewards exchange option that you do not have now because your Week was an external resale.  But unless the rules have changed, you cannot convert one enrolled Week to DC Points and then convert only half of those DC Points to MR Points.  You'll have the option to EITHER convert your enrolled Week to DC Points OR convert your enrolled Week to MR Points.  Only owners of purchased DC Trust Points can convert a portion of those to MR Points.

*I just looked at the Marriott Rewards-related document that specifies the rules for enrolled Weeks, and don't find any evidence of changes.  These two rules would apply to your enrolled Week:


> - An Eligible Member desiring to trade his Use Period for Marriott Rewards points through the Program for any Use Year *must trade the entire Use Period* associated with the Interest. ...
> and
> -An Eligible Member who did not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest in a particular Use Year for Marriott Rewards points prior to enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program shall receive the amount of Marriott Rewards points for each traded Interest as specified in the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located. If the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located does not identify the amount of Marriott Rewards points to be received for the traded Interest, then the Eligible Member shall not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest for Marriott Rewards points after enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. *The option to trade the Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest per season for Marriott Rewards points shall be limited to non-successive Use Years; i.e. trades may not be made two (2) years in a row, or in the case of an every-other-year Eligible Member, at least three (3) years must separate Use Years in which trades are made*, as specified in the Resort Rules & Regulations. The applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located shall also govern the number of Marriott Rewards points the Eligible Member may receive for the assignment of a Use Period associated with the Exchange Member’s Interest.



Generally, enrollment in the DC makes most sense for owners of multi-weeks or high-demand weeks who exchange fairly frequently, or owners who pay several transaction fees for other transactions (MR exchanges, lock-offs, etc) who might benefit from the all-inclusive Club Dues fee.  It makes less sense for owners of single Weeks who do not exchange or use other transactions on an annual basis.  In your case, I would expect that what you own should have enough trade power to get you an occasional exchange into Waiohai through II, which doesn't require enrollment.  (But admittedly, I don't watch II exchanges closely - I'm just guessing based on what I read on TUG.)

Hopefully somebody else will come along to join the discussion about your specific situation.  Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## SueDonJ

Gaff said:


> It is really amazing watching the postings of those that have joined trying to convince those that haven't joined that they are missing an opportunity. I do not believe that Marriott has any plans to invest in building any more timeshares. It seems that they are quietly trying to pry themselves loose while still making a buck as they exit. I recently purchased 2 Marriott Custom Houses for a combined $11,000. Marriott made no effort (ROFR) to lock them up for their 'Destinations' inventory. It is my unsolicited advice to those who have not joined or are on the fence to wait and see. I am always suspicious when someone tells me that if I don't buy now I won't be able to. That is the sales pitch of a desperate man!!!!



I also don't believe that Marriott (the new Marrriott Vacations Worldwide Co, I mean) will be building new resorts anytime soon; hardly any timeshare developers are planning new resorts in this economy!  But they could never build another and there are still enough in the network that we could visit a new one every year for a long, long time.   

Just in case there is some misunderstanding in this thread, most of us who fully understand the new Destinations Club and recommend enrolling in it do so only when we know the details about what an owner has and how s/he uses it.  What's wrong with recommending it when it appears that a certain owner will benefit from it?  IMO, nothing, so long as we explain to whoever is asking why we're recommending it.  And, so long as we don't recommend it when it doesn't appear to make sense, like my post just before this one.


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## robichaudj

*Info from Marriott rep online*

Thanks Susan
Your read on transfer to MReward points was correct, only available for all, or none, of my DC points, and only available for every other usage year.  Clearly a none starter for me, really appreciate your feedback.

I had the sales rep at Kauai Lagoons tell me the opposite (and he had a complete read on our specific situation as external owners).

Happy traveling


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## Quilter

We enrolled shortly after the program was announced.   It was a no-brainer for us with 7 weeks that we lock-off and trade.    4 weeks developer, 3 weeks resale meant we paid the top price to enroll but I went ahead and enrolled them all for the simplicity.   Didn't want 2 II accounts and there may come the day we want to turn them all in for the DC points.   I played the mental game that for roughly $2,000 all my weeks became equal.   If, at the time we bought the resale weeks, I was given the option of paying an extra $665 per week ($1,995/3) to make it as legit as the developer weeks, I would have.   Now they're not only equal but we have many more options for how we use them.


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## rrlongwell

Quilter said:


> We enrolled shortly after the program was announced.   It was a no-brainer for us with 7 weeks that we lock-off and trade.    4 weeks developer, 3 weeks resale meant we paid the top price to enroll but I went ahead and enrolled them all for the simplicity.   Didn't want 2 II accounts and there may come the day we want to turn them all in for the DC points.   I played the mental game that for roughly $2,000 all my weeks became equal.   If, at the time we bought the resale weeks, I was given the option of paying an extra $665 per week ($1,995/3) to make it as legit as the developer weeks, I would have.   Now they're not only equal but we have many more options for how we use them.



Am I understanding your post correctly?  Marriott is giving an offer to take re-sale owned weeks and give them full standing for modest fees?


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## Quilter

rrlongwell said:


> Am I understanding your post correctly?  Marriott is giving an offer to take re-sale owned weeks and give them full standing for modest fees?



As I mentioned in my post, we enrolled last July which was shortly after the program was announced.   Our resale weeks were all purchased way before the cut off date of June 20, 2010 and, therefore, eligible for enrollment.

Actually, my math in the previous post wasn't exactly correct.   If all the weeks had been developer it would have cost $695 to enroll so the real difference was $1,300.   Each resale week cost roughly $433 to enroll.  Two of these weeks are Platinum Ocean Pointe oceanfront and my highest DC point values at 5375.   I definitely wanted to get them enrolled.


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## dundeeyank

*Enrolled*

I have three weeks at M Frenchman's cove.  I am using the 800 Club points for 5 nights at Legends Edge in Panama City Fl in April because it is close to me.  I have reserved 11 days at Christmas time at the same resort.  I have combined my 2013 weeks, a single 12 week and a single 14 week for the African safari in 2013..  So my plan is

"the Cove" 25 Feb to 10 March this year
Legends Edge April
Legends Edge Christmas and New Years
Africa for 14 day in April 2013
Still looking at what we will do in 2014..  

Satisfied so far.  I just wish it didn't cost $1300+ for us to fly to St Thomas.


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## SDKath

How hard is it to book high demand weeks using points?  For example, we own Shadow Ridge (resale, Platinum) and if we join DC, could we use our points to book Marriott Mountainside for 4-5 days in the Spring sometime (Feb or March)?

How would I go about figuring this out?  So far, we have used it very successfully to lock off and trade via II but MOU never comes up in II in the ski season.

Thanks!  Katherine


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## GregT

SDKath said:


> How hard is it to book high demand weeks using points?  For example, we own Shadow Ridge (resale, Platinum) and if we join DC, could we use our points to book Marriott Mountainside for 4-5 days in the Spring sometime (Feb or March)?
> 
> How would I go about figuring this out?  So far, we have used it very successfully to lock off and trade via II but MOU never comes up in II in the ski season.
> 
> Thanks!  Katherine



Katherine, sending you a PM.  Thx


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## lancejr

*What is "skim"*

Hi,

I keep seeing the term "skim" in a lot of threads. Can someone tell me what that is?


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## SueDonJ

lancejr said:


> Hi,
> 
> I keep seeing the term "skim" in a lot of threads. Can someone tell me what that is?



Basically, "skim" is the term that TUGgers gave to the difference in the number of DC Points that Marriott allotted to a certain Week versus how many DC Points it would cost to reserve that same Week.  For example, a Barony Beach Gold OF unit is allotted 3,725 DC Points if it's enrolled in the DC, but it costs 4,000 DC Points to book a Barony Gold OF week.  That 75 Points difference is the skim.

The overwhelming majority of the existing Weeks suffer skim in the DC, but there are a very few where it cost an equal or lesser amount to book the same week when it's converted to DC Points.

The fact that you don't have to convert an enrolled Week to DC Points for home resort usage in season, that you can still book that Week in the traditional way, mitigates the skim factor somewhat for some folks on TUG.  But, there are also many who say that the skim doesn't impact only home resort usage, that every enrolled Week which is converted to DC Points for exchanges through the DC Exchange Company, results in that week being less valuable for like-to-like exchanges.


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## lancejr

SueDonJ said:


> Basically, "skim" is the term that TUGgers gave to the difference in the number of DC Points that Marriott allotted to a certain Week versus how many DC Points it would cost to reserve that same Week.  For example, a Barony Beach Gold OF unit is allotted 3,725 DC Points if it's enrolled in the DC, but it costs 4,000 DC Points to book a Barony Gold OF week.  That 75 Points difference is the skim.
> 
> The overwhelming majority of the existing Weeks suffer skim in the DC, but there are a very few where it cost an equal or lesser amount to book the same week when it's converted to DC Points.
> 
> The fact that you don't have to convert an enrolled Week to DC Points for home resort usage in season, that you can still book that Week in the traditional way, mitigates the skim factor somewhat for some folks on TUG.  But, there are also many who say that the skim doesn't impact only home resort usage, that every enrolled Week which is converted to DC Points for exchanges through the DC Exchange Company, results in that week being less valuable for like-to-like exchanges.




Thank you!!


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## Gaff

Just returned from a Marriott stay in California and attended my 4th 'Destinations' presentation. The Rep was very professional and knew that I was a non starter because of my experience and proceeded to give me the cliff note version of the sales pitch. He was very willing to answer all my questions. I was struck by several points that were brought up.

1 ~ I had to pay an initiation fee for the privilage
2 ~ I would lose the lock off feature of my resorts (full unit is enrolled)
3 ~ The pts received for my units would be less than pts required to stay at my home resorts
4 ~ You can join the program without having a unit to enroll in the system

I questioned about the fact that people joining without units would create a shortage of available units. He stated that members would be spread out over:

short term stays (2-3 dys), sea cruises, plane fares, hotel stays etc..

I couldn't understand how anyone (who didn't have to) would go to the trouble and expense of plane travel for a 3dy stay (check in 4pm ~ check out 10am = 1dy stay) . I also didn't understand why you would use a timeshare for plane fare when you can get it for free with rewards charge cards. Finally, I was laughing when I told him that for 20yrs they were trying to sell me timeshares by showing me how dismal and uncomfortable hotel rooms were in comparison to timeshares ~ now they wanted me to give up my timeshare to go back to hotel rooms.......

In the end he confirmed that I used my timeshares in exactly the way they were designed and that the 'Destinations' program would not enhance my vacation experiences in any way.


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## billymach4

Gaff said:


> Just returned from a Marriott stay in California and attended my 4th 'Destinations' presentation. The Rep was very professional and knew that I was a non starter because of my experience and proceeded to give me the cliff note version of the sales pitch. He was very willing to answer all my questions. I was struck by several points that were brought up.
> 
> 1 ~ I had to pay an initiation fee for the privilage
> 2 ~ I would lose the lock off feature of my resorts (full unit is enrolled)
> 3 ~ The pts received for my units would be less than pts required to stay at my home resorts
> 4 ~ You can join the program without having a unit to enroll in the system
> 
> I questioned about the fact that people joining without units would create a shortage of available units. He stated that members would be spread out over:
> 
> short term stays (2-3 dys), sea cruises, plane fares, hotel stays etc..
> 
> I couldn't understand how anyone (who didn't have to) would go to the trouble and expense of plane travel for a 3dy stay (check in 4pm ~ check out 10am = 1dy stay) . I also didn't understand why you would use a timeshare for plane fare when you can get it for free with rewards charge cards. Finally, I was laughing when I told him that for 20yrs they were trying to sell me timeshares by showing me how dismal and uncomfortable hotel rooms were in comparison to timeshares ~ now they wanted me to give up my timeshare to go back to hotel rooms.......
> 
> In the end he confirmed that I used my timeshares in exactly the way they were designed and that the 'Destinations' program would not enhance my vacation experiences in any way.



Gaff, 

You are on the money!


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## Gaff

Thanks billymach4 ~ I'm not sure that I'm on the money, but I know that I am trying to keep it n my wallet!!!!!!


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## dioxide45

Gaff said:


> Just returned from a Marriott stay in California and attended my 4th 'Destinations' presentation. The Rep was very professional and knew that I was a non starter because of my experience and proceeded to give me the cliff note version of the sales pitch. He was very willing to answer all my questions. I was struck by several points that were brought up.
> 
> 1 ~ I had to pay an initiation fee for the privilage



Correct, that initiation fee will increase to $2395 in June.



> 2 ~ I would lose the lock off feature of my resorts (full unit is enrolled)



Untrue. You only lose this if you convert your week to points. You only have the option to convert to points or keep your week as is, no changes. If you keep your week, you can lock off, you also save the $80 lock off fee to boot.



> 3 ~ The pts received for my units would be less than pts required to stay at my home resorts



True, but if you are staying at your home resort, you would make a weeks based reservation there. Of course you get skimmed when you stay at other resorts on points. This skim replaces fees that many other systems charge (housekeeping, short stay fees, etc).



> 4 ~ You can join the program without having a unit to enroll in the system



This is new to me. If someone without a unit joins, what do they convert to get points from? No units = no points. Trust owners own points and join the DC program.



> I questioned about the fact that people joining without units would create a shortage of available units. He stated that members would be spread out over:
> 
> short term stays (2-3 dys), sea cruises, plane fares, hotel stays etc..



These types of exchanges are offered with II and other programs also, they have almost always been a bad deal. They are a bit better in DC.



> I couldn't understand how anyone (who didn't have to) would go to the trouble and expense of plane travel for a 3dy stay (check in 4pm ~ check out 10am = 1dy stay) . I also didn't understand why you would use a timeshare for plane fare when you can get it for free with rewards charge cards. Finally, I was laughing when I told him that for 20yrs they were trying to sell me timeshares by showing me how dismal and uncomfortable hotel rooms were in comparison to timeshares ~ now they wanted me to give up my timeshare to go back to hotel rooms.......



Travel patterns change, not everyone flies to destinations. For some, DC short stays work great, for others they don't. That is the great thing about DC, you can join or stay out.



> In the end he confirmed that I used my timeshares in exactly the way they were designed and that the 'Destinations' program would not enhance my vacation experiences in any way.



If it doesn't work for you, it is great that you don't have to join and still have the option to work in weeks. If you lock off and exchange through II a lot, the a la carte fees could save you some money.


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## Gaff

Hi dioxide45,

  Pt 2 - You cannot decide to convert your 1 bedroom or studio separately which negates the benefit of cutting your maintenance fees in half.

  Pt 3 - Again, the lock off feature would get me 2 weeks at the home resort or other resort with minimal charges

  Pt 4,5 - Apparently, [unless he was lying (Senior Sales Director)], you can pay to join the program and then buy points to do whatever you want (hotels, cruises, timeshares, airfares etc.). The fact that Marriott appears not to be interested if ROFR tells me that there is going to be a serious issue with inventory unless they get a large % of current owners to enroll and that a good % of 'Destination' members opt for cruises, hotels, etc.

For people who have already taken the plunge, I hope it works out. For those who haven't I suggest that you do your homework, go to several presentations and ask lots of questions (don't let them carry the 'show').It is a 'sales pitch' after all...


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## dioxide45

Gaff said:


> Hi dioxide45,
> 
> Pt 2 - You cannot decide to convert your 1 bedroom or studio separately which negates the benefit of cutting your maintenance fees in half.



True, but you don't have to convert to points at all and you still have full use of both sides of your lock off.



> Pt 3 - Again, the lock off feature would get me 2 weeks at the home resort or other resort with minimal charges



I don't dispute that, if you enroll though you only pay the one combined fee instead of the lock off fee of $80, if you exchange both through II, you also get the two exchanges of $119 each included.



> Pt 4,5 - Apparently, [unless he was lying (Senior Sales Director)], you can pay to join the program and then buy points to do whatever you want (hotels, cruises, timeshares, airfares etc.). The fact that Marriott appears not to be interested if ROFR tells me that there is going to be a serious issue with inventory unless they get a large % of current owners to enroll and that a good % of 'Destination' members opt for cruises, hotels, etc.



I would think the "if his lips were moving" saying makes good sense here. There is no means to even buy points on a one time use basis from Marriott. Current owners can't do it. There is no means to enroll unless you are an owner. They want to sell points. The sales rep was wrong.



> For people who have already taken the plunge, I hope it works out. For those who haven't I suggest that you do your homework, go to several presentations and ask lots of questions (don't let them carry the 'show').It is a 'sales pitch' after all...



I agree, it is important to understand the new system and do you homework. Many of us here that have enrolled did lots of homework and didn't jump in as soon as it was rolled out. We determined that it works well for us. Not everyone is in it to convert to points, many have opted to enroll just to save on the a-la-carte fees. Any financial decision like this should be be fully researched.

I was originally against the new program. We waited over a year after roll out to enroll. A lot of though and calculations went in to our decision. For us, it is about the combined fee.


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## Gaff

Dioxide 45, I really don't think that the ability to join 'Destinations' and then buy points can be shrugged off so easily! As an owner I would be paying an initiation fee, enrolling my weeks, and then paying (assuming a deficit) for points to go where I wanted. If (as I believe) Marriott was moving in the direction of a 'Vacation Opportunity Outlet' why wouldn't they allow non-timeshare owners to join 'Destinations'. They are offering a lot more than mere timeshare accomodations. I am not prepared to call the 'Sales Rep' a liar yet!! I will have to see more conclusive evidence to the contrary first....


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## dioxide45

Gaff said:


> I will have to see more conclusive evidence to the contrary first....



I guess I am more of the one to not believe something from a sales rep and look for substantiation that it is true, not the other way around. There has been no advertising by Marriott to enroll in DC without being an owner, none. There is no "getaway" program in DC. You can rent inventory at discounted rates based on membership level, but you have to be an owner to use those discounts. Those discounts are really just booked through Marriott.com using the applicable code.

We have also never seen anyone in these forums that has said they enrolled in DC without having any type of ownership.


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## Gaff

Just found this 'Blog' with a 'marriott destination program membership' search.

Timeshare Talk
Enrolled Club Points vs. Trust Points
Pam Keystone - Tuesday, March 01, 2011

We recently learned that there are 2 pools of inventory that the new Destination Club points can access. The majority of Marriott owners own deeded weeks which can be "elected" for Club Points in any given year. These points can be used to reserve Marriott Vacation Club stays for any number of days that you choose. These "enrolled" Club points can only access the available inventory of resorts and dates that are made available from owners turning their deeded weeks into Club Points. This is known as the Exchange Inventory.

When you purchase Club points these are considered "Trust" Club points and with these points you can only access the Trust Inventory. This is the inventory comprised of unsold weeks, resale weeks and re-acquired weeks. In other words, this is the inventory that Marriott owns, not the owners.

When searching for available resorts for specific dates, you can only search the inventory in which your points can access. The two types of points can not be combined. Marriott Sales Executives have been selling existing owners a minimum of 1,500 points and some owners have opted to do this with the idea that these 1,500 "trust" points can be combined with their deeded week Club points. Not so.

The following example illustrates how exchanging with points works: You have 2,500 points in the bank that you have elected from your deeded weeks. And you have 1,500 Trust points you have purchased. You want to go to Aruba in February and it requires 3,900 points. If the inventory is only in the Trust you don't have enough points to book it. If the inventory is only in the Exchange Inventory, you don't have sufficient points to book it. ONLY if the inventory is in both pools, can you book it. MVCI will use 2,400 points for the first 4 nights from your "enrolled" points and then 1,500 points from your "Trust" points for the last 3 nights. 

I don't believe this is how it has been explained by Marriott Sales Executives.

Makes you kind of 'Wonder' doesn't it!!!!!!

.


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## Gaff

I think that is what caused my confusion ~ It must be the 'Trust' points that people can purchase.. It makes sense because Marriott is offering; flights, cruises, hotel stays, land based tours etc..


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## Snooker

*Destination Point Experience - Ritz Carlton Abaco Club Bahamas*

This was our second use of Destination Club  points, but it was the first resort usage and first Ritz experience.  We bought 5 days at the Abaco Club which recently opened up to Premier Members.  As a Ritz we could only book 6 months in advance, but we were able to reserve our 5 days with ease.  It was fantastic experience.  

We booked a car (opting NOT for the $80 cab ride from Marsh Harbor a/p to the Club - each way.)  We were greeted plane side by name by the fellow who had our car (Ritz had contacted them to meet us.)  On arrival Abaco Club you park the car and are issued a golf cart for your stay - no cars on the property.  Bags were transferred from our car to our beautiful cabana.  4 post king size bed, flat screen TV with Bose sound system, and a screened in porch.  While we had a small fridge and microwave you might plan on eating most meals at the Clubhouse or beach restaurant.  Meals are exceptional quality but pricey.  Full breakfast for two about $40.  Dinner is much higher.   Considering meal and drinks costs plan on at least $200/day per couple to eat and drink.

Beach was beautiful complete with padded loungers, umbrellas and towel service.  No issue getting a place in the sun here.  Free Hobie Cats, kayaks, paddle boats to use. Trampoline anchored about 200 ft offshore - its 2-3 feet deep going out almost 50 yds.  Infinity pool is available next to the clubhouse.  Over 2 miles of beach with perhaps 40 people (at most.)  

You may find other sites talking about biting bugs at this Club.  This was not an issue in mid February, but I am told it can get bad in the summer.  We never used our bug spray.  Temp were 75-80 daily - perfect!

They have kid activities at the beach for a few hours a day, but I would not recommend this place for families with small children.  This is also not a place to go for night life - there is none.  There is no place within 20 miles to go to.  I would also not recommend driving at night only because there are no lighted roads for 20 miles or so - and in Bahamas you are driving on the left  in an American car.  Roads are unmarked for the most part.  <-- KEEP LEFT!! (so it said in big letters on our rear view mirror.) 

Golf course on site at $175 per round.  Scottish course design with real deep bunkers.  We didn't golf this trip.  They offer free tennis courts and a beautiful Croquet field (putting green grass.)

I can't say enough about the staff and how wonderful they are. They go to great lengths to help you enjoy your stay. They know you by name after you meet them.  Uncle Jean on the beach is the best, and Archie at the Clubhouse bar will make your night fun (if you dare.)

Doubtful we will go back only because there are more great places to explore.


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## billwright1

Multi week owner not joining


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## BoTighe

Single week owner. Will not be joining.


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## ilene13

Multi week owner who does not want to join but feels we may be forced to.


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## Snooker

*Destination Points - Defintely Not for All*

While we have chosen to join the Marriott Destination Point program, I completely appreciate the program is not for all.  I have met many owners at Aruba Ocean Club (as well as other locations we traded for) who are quite happy to use their week(s) at their home resort and do nothing else.  They have done that for years and will continue to so for the foreseeable future.  Our family likes to explore other locations of the world and the Destination Point system opened up some interesting opportunities using our investment in the program.

There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook.  We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.)  That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before.  Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.

Look forward to seeing you on the beach somewhere!


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## bazzap

Snooker said:


> While we have chosen to join the Marriott Destination Point program, I completely appreciate the program is not for all.  I have met many owners at Aruba Ocean Club (as well as other locations we traded for) who are quite happy to use their week(s) at their home resort and do nothing else.  They have done that for years and will continue to so for the foreseeable future.  Our family likes to explore other locations of the world and the Destination Point system opened up some interesting opportunities using our investment in the program.
> 
> There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook.  We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.)  That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before.  Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.
> 
> Look forward to seeing you on the beach somewhere!


Well, currently you can only go to any Marriott timeshare location in the US DC Points Program, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.)
So you can only explore other locations of the world, e.g. Europe, Asia through II week exchanges.
In the same way, we as owners of non US resorts cannot currently benefit from what you describe.
If ever there is a Global Points program, then we will all be able to enjoy the flexibility you have in the US everywhere in the world.


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## Docklander

I've just done been to a Marriott update because I haven't been to one in about 3 years and I wanted to hear everything about the points program from the horse's mouth (so to speak). 

I was struggling with my decision and, as a multi-week owner the points idea was tempting at first but, the more I think about it, the more I think that the points aren't worth it. Yes, there are savings on fees but the $2,000 fee to enroll offsets a lot of those savings unless you lock off a lot. 

Also I'm not too impressed with how they've introduced a pseudo new set of "seasons" for those using points. By that I mean that, for example, although the Grand Chateau only has one prime "week" under the old system, they've introduced a whole series of dates that are now "prime" dates where daily points rates are higher than the rates they assign to the week you own. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.

I like the idea of being able to visit resorts for less than a week, especially for places like Vegas and Boston, and to check in on most days of the week...but I'm not convinced these added bonuses make up for the deficiencies above.

So, after consideration and unless someone here points out something I'm missing (quite likely), I don't think I'll be going down the points route.


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## m61376

Docklander said:


> Also I'm not too impressed with how they've introduced a pseudo new set of "seasons" for those using points. By that I mean that, for example, although the Grand Chateau only has one prime "week" under the old system, they've introduced a whole series of dates that are now "prime" dates where daily points rates are higher than the rates they assign to the week you own. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.



For many properties the points awarded would not let an owner book any week in their owned season; of course, the counter-argument is that they should book a week when using their home resort, but the corollary to that is that they are downgrading anyplace they choose to trade to, because they are awarded less points than their ownership would otherwise dictate. However, some people think this big bite (dubbed the "skim") offsets the flexibility, and many have even decided it was worth giving Marriott another ten grand or so to buy 1000 additional points to increase their flexibility. It is a personal decision.

While I agree with you, there is one feature which I do find somewhat compelling. GregT has illustrated and set up a point rental website, and the ability to rent points from other owners may be a very worthwhile adjunct to the program, both for when you may need an extra unit for additional guests and/or for the occasional special trip, that perhaps you want to guarantee a certain date that might be hard to obtain via II, or really want to ensure that oceanview for an anniversary trip to Hawaii, for example. I could see that an occasional point rental might be something I would do down the road, whether as an adjunct to using my regular week or to supplement the point value of a week, either to compensate for the limited point allocation, to guarantee a view, or to secure a3BR unit perhaps. If you are not a DC member you cannot use points directly, although you could still have someone make the reservation for you and rent the unit.

The other consideration, which I'll admit is more of a "what if" scenario than based on anything concrete, is what if in the future Marriott decides to do all Marriott trades internally, including Marriott to Marriott week trades? Will that ever happen?- clearly this is a figment of my imagination. I do wonder if it pays for resale owners to enroll to "protect their investment," so to speak. For now, Marriott is willing to recognize older resale owners as basically "full" owners, with 2K being the price of admission. I'm thinking it may be worth the extra $650 a week (over and above what I would have paid if I bought directly from Marriott) to join and know that, whatever changes come down the road, I'll be protected, because while Marriott may not really care about resale owners, they would never alienate their direct customer base. So it may sound silly, but I kinda look at the extra $1300 for resale owners to join as an insurance surcharge, and feel that cost will be offset somewhere down the road by a single point rental versus having to reserve an extra unit for my family on Marriott.com (since my family dynamics has changed so that needing an additional unit is likely).


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## jimf41

Docklander said:


> . If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.



The system was not designed for a weeks owner to use DC points to go to his own resort. If you think about it for a moment you realize that if you do that all you're doing is adding a needless complication to the reservation process. Even if there were no vig, being from NY I prefer vig over skim, you would be going from a guaranteed reservation to a chance to get a reservation in the exchange pool.

With the DC points system certain opportunities occur that were not there prior to its implementation as well as certain inequities that have been addressed. Some resorts were given a high amount of points and some were not so fortunate. In my case the St Thomas weeks I own were given a pitifully small amount of points. This is also the case with St Kitts and Aruba. The Hawaii owners were given a large amount of points for their weeks.

Since "points are points" once they are in the exchange pool the Hawaii owners now have a better shot at getting value when they trade in the exchange pool rather than go through II where "a week is a week".

Looking at what MGC gets for points it doesn't appear to me that joining the DC system would be a great value unless you lock off and trade a lot. Or you want the ability to trade for MRPs once in a while. Even if you do it would take at least 5 or six years or more to break even. 

Each owner has to look at this system and see what advantages it has over what they currently can do with no additional cost. There are so many possible avenues and permutations to doing this I couldn't possibly list them. Just don't look at one thing, not being able to trade back in using points, and say the system won't work for you.


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## Docklander

jimf41 said:


> Just don't look at one thing, not being able to trade back in using points, and say the system won't work for you.



I'm not looking at just one thing...that was an example of something that, I feel, comes down on the negative side of the equation and I was highlighting it. I would have liked to be able to visit the MGC a few days at a time without penalty - that would help me get a lot more valuable usage out of my ownership. Unfortunately the system doesn't really allow for that.

I have looked at the system as a whole and I don't think it works for me...that's what this thread is about right? I only, usually, exchange one of my units so the cost savings aren't really there and most of the places I go to or want to go are far enough away to make staying for less than a week uneconomical (financially and time-wise). So, it seems to me, that if you're generally happy visiting the resorts you own and do few exchanges the system isn't really for you.

I think the point made about the enrollment fee possibly being an insurance policy going forward is a very valid one and it's probably the only thing that's keeping me from saying outright that I won't be joining. This is something I'll have to consider for longer. If I do enroll it will be for this reason and this reason alone.


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## Beverley

Snooker said:


> There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook.  We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.)  That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before.  Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.



This has been really useful to us.  I agree it may not be for all, but we have liked it so far and were very very skeptical in the beginning.  We did, however, enroll at the first opportunity to do so although at the time I never expected to use DC.  We own 6 weeks with Marriott prior to the roll out and have been saving tons of $$ on the fees to do what we have been doing for years.  A few years later, now, we have reserved more than a few weekend stays at Custom House, tagged on extra days for our return home from HHI, make great use of Sun to Friday check in. out, have St Kitts / St Thomas trip for early summer this year, and are now planning an Alaska adventure/ cruise and land combination of using DC and MR points. 

Definitely not for everyone, but gradually becoming good for us and a "nice to have" option.  Nothing we had went away other than the fees for enrolling at the $695 rate.  If we had waited until they raise the fee to $2395 (or so) we would never join.  Think about your use and if you think you may save on the fees or might take advantage of some of the options, then enroll before the rates go up.     

Beverley


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## Beverley

Dioxide45,  
You've done a really nice jog of explaining of the DC options.  

Beverley


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## blobuono

We have yet to see the value and the buy-in fee seems out of line.  If the program were priced far more realistically we may consider.


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## ndonovan

*To join or not to join, that is the question*

As the deadline approaches before the big price increase I find myself leaning more and more towards joining the points.

I own two weeks, a silver week at Ford's Colony and a platinum three bedroom at Grande Vista.  Each year I deposit the silver week with Interval and exchange it for a week in the fall, which I believe is Ford's Colony Platinum season.  I have done this successfully for 13 years.  This is my annual golf trip.

As the grandchildren get older I find myself using the Orlando week more often than trading it but I do cash it in for points every few years when my point total drops below 500,000.

By enrolling I pay $165 a year which is more than offset by my II dues and the $119 I am spending every year to exchange my Manor Club into the fall.  So the question remains is it worth $695.  I am leaning toward a yes.  Last year I cashed in for points, that cost $119.  Most years, unless the whole family is going with me, I lock out my unit ($80) and then, if I am not going to Orlando I exchange the two units separately, more exchange fees.  It doesn't seem like it would take too long to recoup the $695.

Am I missing something?


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## DanCali

Beverley said:


> Nothing we had went away other than the fees for enrolling at the $695 rate.



In my opinion, enrollment rates will only go down. It makes zero economic sense to increase enrollment by raising enrollment rates. If I didn't enroll for $2K (or $700) I certainly won't find it more attractive to do it for more.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see enrollment rates go down towards zero over time.

As for the annual club dues - that's where the increasing fees argument applies. Recurring fees are the real value here. Once you paid to enroll, you're captive. And if annual fees go up 10% every year, most will stick with the program.

It's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.


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## ndonovan

*To join or not to join, that is the question*

You're right Dan, raising the enrollment from $595 to $2395 does not seem to be the way to get the existing members to jump in in, other than trying to trigger a last minute rush of existing members in June (Like me).  I haven't been visitng the forums as much as I did in the past when I was a moderator, I  am sure this has been the topic of much discussion.

I fully anticipate the $165 to increase but as long as it stays under the cost of a Marriott to Marriott exchange plus a year of Interval then I guess I am OK.

When I bought my first unit the Marriott to Marriott fee was $69, the non-Marriott fee was $109 and the international was $129. Maintenance fees were $800 and it cost $104 to cash in for points.  Point is,  fees are going to rise.

Even if the enrollment fee drops to $0 as you are surmising, I guess the key is whether I will save $695 in fees between now and then.


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## JimC

ndonovan said:


> ...I fully anticipate the $165 to increase but as long as it stays under the cost of a Marriott to Marriott exchange plus a year of Interval then I guess I am OK.....



There is nothing that prevents Marriott from raising it to whatever they want since once in, your are a captive with no ability to avoid the fee.


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## dioxide45

JimC said:


> There is nothing that prevents Marriott from raising it to whatever they want since once in, your are a captive with no ability to avoid the fee.



Well, you can avoid the fee by simply not paying it. Then your enrollment in the DC program ends and if you want to get back in you would have to pay a new enrollment fee. That fee would be whatever the fee is at the time you want to re-enroll.


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## dmharris

ndonovan said:


> As the deadline approaches before the big price increase I find myself leaning more and more towards joining the points.
> 
> I own two weeks, a silver week at Ford's Colony and a platinum three bedroom at Grande Vista.  Each year I deposit the silver week with Interval and exchange it for a week in the fall, which I believe is Ford's Colony Platinum season.  I have done this successfully for 13 years.  This is my annual golf trip.
> 
> As the grandchildren get older I find myself using the Orlando week more often than trading it but I do cash it in for points every few years when my point total drops below 500,000.
> 
> By enrolling I pay $165 a year which is more than offset by my II dues and the $119 I am spending every year to exchange my Manor Club into the fall.  So the question remains is it worth $695.  I am leaning toward a yes.  Last year I cashed in for points, that cost $119.  Most years, unless the whole family is going with me, I lock out my unit ($80) and then, if I am not going to Orlando I exchange the two units separately, more exchange fees.  It doesn't seem like it would take too long to recoup the $695.
> 
> Am I missing something?



Is Ford's Colony a Marriott property?  Do you mean Manor Club?  I'm confused as to what you own.  If both properties are Marriotts, I would join if you exchange every year.  We exchange every year and we own one gold 2 bedroom at Grande Vista that we lock off so we joined to save on fees over time.


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## kassey22000

*multiweek owner will not join*

Glad the program works for some, but a huge RED FLAG for me is how aggressively MVCI is pushing the DC program.  The relentless on-hold ads, outbound calls, on & offsite reps insistence that I listen to another sales pitch and the fact the Marriott decided to spin-off the division has me thinking that they are motivated only by profit (not brand or customer loyality) and this program has all the new sales force/marketing focus that pushing weeks-for-sale use to.   Seems almost like desperation to me.  Good luck folks


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## dioxide45

kassey22000 said:


> Glad the program works for some, but a huge RED FLAG for me is how aggressively MVCI is pushing the DC program.  The relentless on-hold ads, outbound calls, on & offsite reps insistence that I listen to another sales pitch and the fact the Marriott decided to spin-off the division has me thinking that they are motivated only by profit (not brand or customer loyality) and this program has all the new sales force/marketing focus that pushing weeks-for-sale use to.   Seems almost like desperation to me.  Good luck folks



The push really isn't any different than how they used to push weeks. They are in a sales based business, if they don't sell, there are problems. I don't understand why any of these marketing techniques would be cause for worry about the program in general?


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## slum808

kassey22000 said:


> they are motivated only by profit (not brand or customer loyality)



Dont let any corporation fool you, it's always about the profit. Those that concentrate on brand or customer loyality only do it becuase it will bring them future profit. A corporation who is not trying to maximise profits is doing an injustice to their investors.


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## valenta

Docklander said:


> I've just done been to a Marriott update because I haven't been to one in about 3 years and I wanted to hear everything about the points program from the horse's mouth (so to speak).
> 
> I was struggling with my decision and, as a multi-week owner the points idea was tempting at first but, the more I think about it, the more I think that the points aren't worth it. Yes, there are savings on fees but the $2,000 fee to enroll offsets a lot of those savings unless you lock off a lot.
> 
> Also I'm not too impressed with how they've introduced a pseudo new set of "seasons" for those using points. By that I mean that, for example, although the Grand Chateau only has one prime "week" under the old system, they've introduced a whole series of dates that are now "prime" dates where daily points rates are higher than the rates they assign to the week you own. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.
> 
> I like the idea of being able to visit resorts for less than a week, especially for places like Vegas and Boston, and to check in on most days of the week...but I'm not convinced these added bonuses make up for the deficiencies above.
> 
> So, after consideration and unless someone here points out something I'm missing (quite likely), I don't think I'll be going down the points route.



The fee to enroll is $700 not $2000.  It goes up to $2,400 on June 14.


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## SueDonJ

valenta said:


> The fee to enroll is $700 not $2000.  It goes up to $2,400 on June 14.



At the DC inception and through 6/13/12, the cost to enroll depends on how many Weeks are being enrolled and how they were purchased:
- $595 for a single direct-purchased Week,
- $695 for multiple direct-purchased Weeks,
- $1,495 for a single external-resale Week purchased prior to 6/20/10,
- $1,995 for multiple Weeks if any were external resales purchased prior to 6/20/10.

As of 6/14/12 all enrollments will cost $2,395.00.  There hasn't been an announced change to the eligibility rules - it appears external resales purchased after 6/20/10 are still not eligible for enrollment.  As well, since the DC inception Marriott has not allowed Resales by Marriott to be enrolled, either.

{eta} So, if TUGger Docklander owns and is considering enrollment of multiple Weeks, with at least one being an external resale purchased prior to 6/20/10, then his/her enrollment fee until 6/13/12 is $1,995.  For all those in the same situation, the enrollment cost increase on 6/14/12 will "only" be $400.  It's much more, of course, for those who purchased direct from Marriott.


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## suzannesimon

valenta said:


> The fee to enroll is $700 not $2000.  It goes up to $2,400 on June 14.



So, what do you suppose the odds are that a Legacy owner would get a great exchange - say Christmas week in St. Thomas exchanged for Christmas week in Aruba using II the old-fashioned way?  If it is possible, it certainly is better than converting to points and then dealing with the skim.  I bought into the points program, but I don't see myself using it unless I want to go to a lower-point location/season, or to save points on a smaller unit.  I certainly don't see myself borrowing points from the following year to get the same size unit in the same season in a comparable resort if I can just exchange into it.  Renting would also be a better option.


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## av8tor

*Torn*

I'm a multiple resale owner. One of the weeks does qualify for enrollment, but at $1495.  I was initially oppose to enrolling primarily due to the cost and the skim, but the more I think about it, I may just pull the trigger.


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## Steve A

Enrolled my four weeks today at the Grand Chateau. Although they are advertising 10,000 Marriott reward points I was offered and accepted 15,000 points. We are big users of reward points and the shows they were offering weren't that exciting. I did not buy an points from them. They kept me the whole 90 minutes. The prices will be going up, according to the salesperson, in the middle of April. I can hardly use the four weeks I have and we are still paying off the last TS purchase. 

I will never again buy anything directly from the developer.


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## tjkahn

*Probably Enrolling*

Single week owner at Timber Lodge, platinum ski week.  While $595 is nothing to sneeze at, I'm taking the nothing to lose attitude (except, of course, the $595).  FWIW, I just got back from a week at Ocean Watch in Myrtle Beach, that I got on a flexchange, and went on the 90-minute presentation.  Easiest $75 I ever made - they're really trying to sell you trust points, and once we made it clear that there was nothing that could get us to buy additional points, it was a really easy conversation.  We're happy with our home resort, but enrolling, it would seem, could only benefit us and wouldn't really hurt (again, other than the $595).  My logic is as follows:

-	If I split my unit, which I do somewhat frequently, it costs $80.  That would be waived.
-	Interval membership is $89/year (les if you pay for multiple years at once).  That is covered.

Now, those two items offset my $165 annual fee.  Then there are the other “extras:”

-	No charge to trade for Marriott points (which I do about every 3 years); saves $120
-	No charge for changes made to reservation.
-	My unit trades for 4,325 points.  Not bad.  If I trade for places in, say, Orlando, in some places I could  get about 3 years’ worth of units for one points trade (I have young kids so Orlando is always a good option).
-	You can trade for cruises – the one thing the salesman did show us live was the cruise site and there was a ton of availability for less than the number of points my unit is worth.  I'm not a cruise expert, but it did seem to be a viable option.

I can still trade through interval, so I don’t lose anything.  I’m parting with $595, but I do get 800 bonus points that I could use for a long weekend vacation somewhere.

If I don’t do it, and they increase the fee to $2,395 like they promise to, then I may possibly regret it.

What I think is the scam is that they won't show you what Marriott units are open for points deals right now...they claim that's because the on-line system isn't live yet --- but I think that's BS - they're holding back because they don't want you to see that availability is less than they're representing.  Interval still has a ton of Marriott availability.  If they were taking away Interval trades, I wouldn't do this - but locking in now at $595 is a good safeguard if they do get the enrollment they're shooting for (they claim they'll be at 50% by the price change in June, but I also think that's a line of bull).

So bottom line, I don't believe a thing they say but I'm going to enroll anyway.  I have myself confused with that statement.


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## Muggiev

We just enrolled 2 developer weeks. Not sure if we'll exchange our weeks for points in the next year or two


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## dioxide45

tjkahn said:


> Single week owner at Timber Lodge, platinum ski week.  While $595 is nothing to sneeze at, I'm taking the nothing to lose attitude (except, of course, the $595).  FWIW, I just got back from a week at Ocean Watch in Myrtle Beach, that I got on a flexchange, and went on the 90-minute presentation.  Easiest $75 I ever made - they're really trying to sell you trust points, and once we made it clear that there was nothing that could get us to buy additional points, it was a really easy conversation.  We're happy with our home resort, but enrolling, it would seem, could only benefit us and wouldn't really hurt (again, other than the $595).  My logic is as follows:
> 
> -	If I split my unit, which I do somewhat frequently, it costs $80.  That would be waived.
> -	Interval membership is $89/year (les if you pay for multiple years at once).  That is covered.
> 
> Now, those two items offset my $165 annual fee.  Then there are the other “extras:”
> 
> -	No charge to trade for Marriott points (which I do about every 3 years); saves $120
> -	No charge for changes made to reservation.
> -	My unit trades for 4,325 points.  Not bad.  If I trade for places in, say, Orlando, in some places I could  get about 3 years’ worth of units for one points trade (I have young kids so Orlando is always a good option).
> -	You can trade for cruises – the one thing the salesman did show us live was the cruise site and there was a ton of availability for less than the number of points my unit is worth.  I'm not a cruise expert, but it did seem to be a viable option.
> 
> I can still trade through interval, so I don’t lose anything.  I’m parting with $595, but I do get 800 bonus points that I could use for a long weekend vacation somewhere.
> 
> If I don’t do it, and they increase the fee to $2,395 like they promise to, then I may possibly regret it.
> 
> What I think is the scam is that they won't show you what Marriott units are open for points deals right now...they claim that's because the on-line system isn't live yet --- but I think that's BS - they're holding back because they don't want you to see that availability is less than they're representing.  Interval still has a ton of Marriott availability.  If they were taking away Interval trades, I wouldn't do this - but locking in now at $595 is a good safeguard if they do get the enrollment they're shooting for (they claim they'll be at 50% by the price change in June, but I also think that's a line of bull).
> 
> So bottom line, I don't believe a thing they say but I'm going to enroll anyway.  I have myself confused with that statement.



I would agree that for even the single week developer owner that exchanges somewhat regularly, it makes sense to enroll now before the price increase. $595 is a small price to pay for something that one likely paid tens of thousands of dollars for. With a week that has a high point allocation, it makes even more sense.

The only time it may not make sense is if they own other properties outside of the Marriott system that require them to maintain a separate II account.


----------



## JimC

It appears to me that whether it makes sense or not depends on what you own, how many weeks you own, how you bought the weeks, and how you use the weeks.

Still not convinced it works for us.  Our MVCI weeks are an EEY developer, EOY developer and EY resale.  We enjoy staying where we own.  The annual fee would increase our annual costs, not decrease them.  The added flexibility has little value for us.

I am also not confident that the annual fee will work out as a discount to specific fees over the long term.  They have priced it well out of the gate.  But the same could be said for maintenance fees early on, which over the long term exhibit a declining value relative to alternative options.

This may work for others, but it is not a win for everyone.


----------



## Steve A

How long does it take the new II membership and the 800 points to show up?

Also, because the weeks we have are worth over 8,000 points we are eligible for some kind of special membership. Could someone please explain? I just wanted to get out of the presentation and didn't follow-up on that.


----------



## infamazz

dioxide45 said:


> I would agree that for even the single week developer owner that exchanges somewhat regularly, it makes sense to enroll now before the price increase. $595 is a small price to pay for something that one likely paid tens of thousands of dollars for. With a week that has a high point allocation, it makes even more sense.
> 
> The only time it may not make sense is if they own other properties outside of the Marriott system that require them to maintain a separate II account.



While it is only 2012, and to wait could potentially cost over $1000 in missing out on the lower enrollment price, I'd like to see the point sheets for the 2014-2015 years to gauge exactly what the expected rate of point "inflation" is likely to be. 

If it is relatively tame, with an increase of 1% or less, that may ease some fears. However, if they surprise people with a 5% increase in the amount of points it takes to reserve a particular week, that could leave a lot of people hurting who made a rash decision to jump in because of the lower enrollment cost.


----------



## tjkahn

infamazz said:


> While it is only 2012, and to wait could potentially cost over $1000 in missing out on the lower enrollment price, I'd like to see the point sheets for the 2014-2015 years to gauge exactly what the expected rate of point "inflation" is likely to be.
> 
> If it is relatively tame, with an increase of 1% or less, that may ease some fears. However, if they surprise people with a 5% increase in the amount of points it takes to reserve a particular week, that could leave a lot of people hurting who made a rash decision to jump in because of the lower enrollment cost.



I agree infamazz, but as dioxide points out, don't you almost have to do it considering if you own a developer week you're already 30K (in my case) in the hole?  I figure the 800 points, which I'll probably used for a long weekend somewhere, offsets the $595.  If you're going to make the best out of a situation, and the price really does quadrouple in 2 months, the downside of not enrolling (i.e. Marriott gets 75% enrollment and II exchanges dwindle significantly) far outweighs the risks of parting with $595.  The way I look at it, the $595 is insurance against getting screwed.  If the point inflation is severe, you're screwed whether you enrolled or not.  Basically Marriott will be saying we don't care about current owners, we're only interested in selling trust points to future owners.  That could happen---but are we convinced that the point value allocated to your unit is stagnant?  If so, and they do inflate points, your point value will be worthless over time, but there's not much you can do about it anyway.


----------



## SueDonJ

infamazz said:


> While it is only 2012, and to wait could potentially cost over $1000 in missing out on the lower enrollment price, I'd like to see the point sheets for the 2014-2015 years to gauge exactly what the expected rate of point "inflation" is likely to be.
> 
> If it is relatively tame, with an increase of 1% or less, that may ease some fears. However, if they surprise people with a 5% increase in the amount of points it takes to reserve a particular week, that could leave a lot of people hurting who made a rash decision to jump in because of the lower enrollment cost.



It would be nice to have that kind of foreknowledge but we'll never get it.

Remember, enrollment in the DC doesn't mean that you must convert your Week(s) to DC Points; you can still use your Week(s) in the exact same ways that you've been doing.  So if the Points Charts do increase to some ridiculous amount, you can still gain the cost-saving benefits of enrollment in the DC if the per-transaction fees of your usage are higher than the DC annual Club Dues.  I think there are quite a few Weeks owners who have enrolled simply for the fee structure benefits - they don't ever expect to convert an enrolled Week to Points.

And if the Club Dues increase in the future to some ridiculous amount where there aren't cost savings, then you can simply not pay them which effectively cancels your enrollment.


----------



## SueDonJ

Steve A said:


> How long does it take the new II membership and the 800 points to show up?
> 
> Also, because the weeks we have are worth over 8,000 points we are eligible for some kind of special membership. Could someone please explain? I just wanted to get out of the presentation and didn't follow-up on that.



I'm not sure what the processing time is these days but if you keep an eye on your my-vacationclub.com and II accounts you should see your new account features as soon as they are available.

With 8,000+ DC Points you are at the Premier status level.  Here's a handy chart that details the status levels.  Remember that if you are using your Weeks in the usual ways, then the same usage rules (Reservation Windows, cancellation policies, etc.) you've always followed will still apply.  If you convert Week(s) to Points, then the DC usage rules will apply.  IMO, the Premier and Premier Plus discounts for cash stays at the timeshares are pretty valuable benefits, even more valuable if you use your Marriott VISA to book and pay for the stays.  (Granted, this benefit is completely worthless for those who don't do timeshare cash stays.)

One note about that chart - the Marriott Rewards exchange benefit on it applies only to purchased Trust Points.  It's different for enrolled Weeks.


----------



## Steve A

SDJ:  another question. In order to take advantage of the Premier benefits do we have to deposit weeks over 6,000 points? The Grand Chateau week is quite valuable and I was thinking of using it for Hawaii 13 months out particularly a 1-bedroom at KBC. Do I have to deposit more than the MGC to book 13 months in advance?


----------



## winger

Steve A said:


> SDJ:  another question. In order to take advantage of the Premier benefits do we have to deposit weeks over 6,000 points? The Grand Chateau week is quite valuable and I was thinking of using it for Hawaii 13 months out particularly a 1-bedroom at KBC. Do I have to deposit more than the MGC to book 13 months in advance?



No, your status is based on the total points you can convert to points.


----------



## dioxide45

Steve A said:


> SDJ:  another question. In order to take advantage of the Premier benefits do we have to deposit weeks over 6,000 points? The Grand Chateau week is quite valuable and I was thinking of using it for Hawaii 13 months out particularly a 1-bedroom at KBC. Do I have to deposit more than the MGC to book 13 months in advance?





winger said:


> No, your status is based on the total points you can convert to points.



And the number is 6500 points, not 6000.


----------



## Quilter

When the new program was rolled out I had to do a lot of reading on TUG plus the documents at my-vacationclub.   Finally called our salesguy in Orlando and he said with the way I used our 7 weeks it was a no brainer.   Since he began our relationship by guiding us to the right resort/view and then even cautioned me to reconsider some of our further purchases I listen to his opinion.  He's unique.  Even though I didn't foresee electing points for all the weeks I enrolled them all for simplicity, options and to save fees.   Enrolled the developer and resale weeks for the top enrollment of $1,995.   Ouch.     

This year I have locked off, exchanged and made more changes than ever before in our 12 years of ownership.   Plans just kept changing.   So being able to exchange without fees being added and then subtracted as I made requests, then cancelled has been nice.   Being able to change without the cha-ching, cha-ching has really been nice.   

Remember I said our salesguy cautioned me on some of our purchases?   Canyon Villas and especially Manor Club were those impulse purchases.  I have repeatedly tried to get someone to make me a deal I can't refuse to get rid of the Manor Club.   No dice.   However, it hasn't been a total loss.  Besides being a good trader, when we bought it came with lots and lots of MR points that we used for some great trips.   But it was no good to sell except at a big loss and we don't use it to stay.   Now that it's enrolled in the DC it's not great mf/DC point value but it's o.k.   Being able to easily elect DC points for a stay at Frenchman's Cove in Jan./Feb.--wonderful!

In March we stayed 2 weeks at Canyon Villas and had a big wake-up call with allergy problems we never dealt with before.   Our plans to visit Phoenix on a regular basis has changed.   We don't know when or if we'll return.   Having the week enrolled in the DC allows me another option.   I can exchange, rent or elect points.   

Another change that happened this year was our thoughts about changing rooms and view at Ocean Pointe as we own both oceanside and oceanfront.   A 1 bd. oceanfront became more desirable than a 2 bd. oceanview.   That's an easy fix with the DC.   With the leftover points I can reserve a couple nights at another resort.   

Options is what the DC is about.   They are coming in very handy.


----------



## guyravad

Gaff said:


> Just found this 'Blog' with a 'marriott destination program membership' search.
> 
> Timeshare Talk
> Enrolled Club Points vs. Trust Points
> Pam Keystone - Tuesday, March 01, 2011
> 
> We recently learned that there are 2 pools of inventory that the new Destination Club points can access. The majority of Marriott owners own deeded weeks which can be "elected" for Club Points in any given year. These points can be used to reserve Marriott Vacation Club stays for any number of days that you choose. These "enrolled" Club points can only access the available inventory of resorts and dates that are made available from owners turning their deeded weeks into Club Points. This is known as the Exchange Inventory.
> 
> When you purchase Club points these are considered "Trust" Club points and with these points you can only access the Trust Inventory. This is the inventory comprised of unsold weeks, resale weeks and re-acquired weeks. In other words, this is the inventory that Marriott owns, not the owners.
> 
> When searching for available resorts for specific dates, you can only search the inventory in which your points can access. The two types of points can not be combined. Marriott Sales Executives have been selling existing owners a minimum of 1,500 points and some owners have opted to do this with the idea that these 1,500 "trust" points can be combined with their deeded week Club points. Not so.
> 
> The following example illustrates how exchanging with points works: You have 2,500 points in the bank that you have elected from your deeded weeks. And you have 1,500 Trust points you have purchased. You want to go to Aruba in February and it requires 3,900 points. If the inventory is only in the Trust you don't have enough points to book it. If the inventory is only in the Exchange Inventory, you don't have sufficient points to book it. ONLY if the inventory is in both pools, can you book it. MVCI will use 2,400 points for the first 4 nights from your "enrolled" points and then 1,500 points from your "Trust" points for the last 3 nights.
> 
> I don't believe this is how it has been explained by Marriott Sales Executives.
> 
> Makes you kind of 'Wonder' doesn't it!!!!!!
> 
> .


Great Point.  I just discussed with 2 sales reps last week and could not get a definitive answer to this issue.  They both did claim that as an enrolled legacy owner who deposits into the exchange pool I would see "all" inventory from both pools.  I'd love to run two computers side by side accessing the system- one with a mix of points and one with all trust points and see if it's true.  Unfortunately I only have legacy points.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## guyravad

Gaff said:


> Just found this 'Blog' with a 'marriott destination program membership' search.
> 
> Timeshare Talk
> Enrolled Club Points vs. Trust Points
> Pam Keystone - Tuesday, March 01, 2011
> 
> We recently learned that there are 2 pools of inventory that the new Destination Club points can access. The majority of Marriott owners own deeded weeks which can be "elected" for Club Points in any given year. These points can be used to reserve Marriott Vacation Club stays for any number of days that you choose. These "enrolled" Club points can only access the available inventory of resorts and dates that are made available from owners turning their deeded weeks into Club Points. This is known as the Exchange Inventory.
> 
> When you purchase Club points these are considered "Trust" Club points and with these points you can only access the Trust Inventory. This is the inventory comprised of unsold weeks, resale weeks and re-acquired weeks. In other words, this is the inventory that Marriott owns, not the owners.
> 
> When searching for available resorts for specific dates, you can only search the inventory in which your points can access. The two types of points can not be combined. Marriott Sales Executives have been selling existing owners a minimum of 1,500 points and some owners have opted to do this with the idea that these 1,500 "trust" points can be combined with their deeded week Club points. Not so.
> 
> The following example illustrates how exchanging with points works: You have 2,500 points in the bank that you have elected from your deeded weeks. And you have 1,500 Trust points you have purchased. You want to go to Aruba in February and it requires 3,900 points. If the inventory is only in the Trust you don't have enough points to book it. If the inventory is only in the Exchange Inventory, you don't have sufficient points to book it. ONLY if the inventory is in both pools, can you book it. MVCI will use 2,400 points for the first 4 nights from your "enrolled" points and then 1,500 points from your "Trust" points for the last 3 nights.
> 
> I don't believe this is how it has been explained by Marriott Sales Executives.
> 
> Makes you kind of 'Wonder' doesn't it!!!!!!
> 
> .


Great Point.  I just discussed with 2 sales reps last week and could not get a definitive answer to this issue.  They both did claim that as an enrolled legacy owner who deposits into the exchange pool I would see "all" inventory from both pools.  I'd love to run two computers side by side accessing the system- one with a mix of points and one with all trust points and see if it's true.  Unfortunately I only have legacy points.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## edinaiken

*What is the exit strategy?*

In considering points vs weeks, I have not seen a discussion of how one gets out of the points program when you want out.  I have asked about this in Marriott points presentations and have not gotten any answer except that a method will be put in place in the future.
So here's the question - When I am tired of paying maintenance fees and/or the perceived value of the points is < the maintenance fees, how do I get out??
With my deeded weeks I can sell them (for not much in today's environment!) or if I can't sell, I can walk away, not pay my maintenance fees and let Marriott or the timeshare association foreclose on the property. 
What happens with points????  Do you lose all your accumulated DC points if you stop paying maintenance fees?  Or can you just walk away as in the deeded week example?


----------



## SueDonJ

edinaiken said:


> In considering points vs weeks, I have not seen a discussion of how one gets out of the points program when you want out.  I have asked about this in Marriott points presentations and have not gotten any answer except that a method will be put in place in the future.
> So here's the question - When I am tired of paying maintenance fees and/or the perceived value of the points is < the maintenance fees, how do I get out??
> With my deeded weeks I can sell them (for not much in today's environment!) or if I can't sell, I can walk away, not pay my maintenance fees and let Marriott or the timeshare association foreclose on the property.
> What happens with points????  Do you lose all your accumulated DC points if you stop paying maintenance fees?  Or can you just walk away as in the deeded week example?



I'm confused - are you talking about DC Trust Points that you've purchased directly from Marriott, or about the DC Legacy Points that your Week(s) will be allocated if you enroll?

If you're talking about purchased Trust Points, you'll have to re-sell those to get rid of them.  Just like with existing Weeks the amount you'll get at that time will be based on then-current supply and demand, but the general consensus here on TUG is that the unknowns of a Trust Points resale market are the major reasons to not purchase them at all.  The little bit of information that can be verified about Trust Points resales tells us that the transfer fees are fairly substantial, and that the usage of those Points may be somewhat restricted for the buyer.  As time goes on we'll get a better idea once resale transactions are related here, but until then the whole thing seems to be a crapshoot.

But if you're talking about enrolling Weeks and wondering what happens when you want to sell your ownership, it's much more simple.  DC enrollment does not materially change the deeds connected to enrolled Weeks; it's simply an overlay-type exchange system in which you can elect on an annual basis to convert your enrolled Weeks to DC Points for use in the DC Exchange Company.  Once you've paid the enrollment fee your Weeks will be eligible to convert to DC Points as long as you continue to pay the annual Club Dues fee.    During the time period when your Weeks are enrolled and your Club Dues fees are current, you can use your Weeks in all the same ways that you always have in addition to the DC Points-conversion exchange option.  When you no longer want your Weeks to be enrolled, simply don't pay the next Club Dues fee and your Weeks will be un-enrolled.  Re-enrollment by you will be subject to whatever rules and fees are in effect at that time.

When it comes to selling Weeks which have been enrolled in the DC, what you will be selling is your Week - the DC Enrollment will not transfer to the new owner.  Plus, at that point it will be a post-6/20/10 external resale, which means that it will not be eligible for re-enrollment by the new owner.

Again, if we're talking about enrolling Weeks, this thread may help with some of your questions.


----------



## CJ2etc

Question for those who have enrolled.  I just enrolled and wanted to check to see what resorts and what weeks are available in inventory but it won't let me.  The person I have been chatting with says it will take 2 weeks for my bonus points to show up and I can't see what is in inventory until I have points.  My question is if you can't see what is in inventory until you have the points how do you really know if there is anything there that you would prefer over using the weeks that you can reserve?  She said you have to exchange the weeks for points first before you can see what is available.  My question is how do you know there is something you want to exchange for if you can't see it?  Anyone have any experience or advice or am I just missing something?

Thanks
Craig


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## suzannesimon

That is my frustration as well.  They might get more people converting their weeks to points if they could see if there was any chance of getting what they want.:annoyed:


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## CJ2etc

OK, well that is a horrible process then.  At least with Interval you can look at what your week could exchange for or request an exchange without actually giving them your week first.  

In this case you have to give them your week in the hope that you can find something else you want and if not you then don't have enough points to get your week back or the value of your week back because of the "skimming". 

That really sucks.

Does the 800 points they give you as a bonus give you access to see all inventory or just the inventory that is availble for 800 points or less?


----------



## SueDonJ

CJ2etc said:


> OK, well that is a horrible process then.  At least with Interval you can look at what your week could exchange for or request an exchange without actually giving them your week first.
> 
> In this case you have to give them your week in the hope that you can find something else you want and if not you then don't have enough points to get your week back or the value of your week back because of the "skimming".
> 
> That really sucks.
> 
> Does the 800 points they give you as a bonus give you access to see all inventory or just the inventory that is availble for 800 points or less?



You can only search online with as many Points as you have available, whether they're from converting Week(s) to Points, bonus Points, or Points you've rented from another Member.

However, although it's not nearly as convenient, you can call a VOA anytime to have them do a search for you and you won't have to commit to converting Week(s) unless you want to use DC Points to book what they find available.  There's no limit to the number of times you can call.

{eta} There's also a "flexible" search option online where if you have enough Points for one night only, the system will search +/- three days from the date you indicate.  So if you have a few points and want to see if an entire week might be available, that's one way to play around before committing an entire Week to Points.  Check out this thread and Puck's post #4 in it.


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## youcanfly

*decided to take the plunge*

So, I decided to join DC last week. At first I was like most and was disappionted at the low point value we were given. Really didn't think I would change my mind but, after a presentation at willow ridge and a great phone call with a manager at marriott I decided to give it a go. Surprisingly the call came about on Monday after the BIG II crash. I first spoke with possibly the rudest woman I've ever dealt with and she clearly gave me misinformation. She transfered me to a manager who was aware of the problem.  Monica was not only able to ease my concerns about the current situation but, spent another 30 minutes or more discussing the DC plan and answering my questions. My reasons to join are:

1. paid II membership (although I have to pay for upgrade in II)

2. we have only traded Marriott for Marriott and now I can do that for free

3. I will only use it when I want shorter stays, I'm looking at off season or 
    when a smaller unit will fit our needs.(the youngest graduates in a few     
    years)

4. if I really use #3 then I could get more travel for my 2/2 at MCP than my 
    usual week for a week.

It was #4 and made me reconsider my earlier position. Prehaps this is all some kind of ploy to get people like me to travel in the off season but, I'm game. We did Marco island in the off season and besides daily afternoon showers, we had a great stay. We hope to soon be the pround owners of a 2/2 gold at grande vista. (I hate closing, I worry too much) We look forward to the usage of l/o but plan to mainly use this as our week to trade in II since it's not available for DC enrollment.  I have been so thankful for all of the information available from such very knowledgable owners. This site was also a big part of helping me to make my decision.


----------



## bsohn

Notes within.. You will be happy in the long run..



youcanfly said:


> So, I decided to join DC last week. At first I was like most and was disappionted at the low point value we were given. Really didn't think I would change my mind but, after a presentation at willow ridge and a great phone call with a manager at marriott I decided to give it a go. Surprisingly the call came about on Monday after the BIG II crash. I first spoke with possibly the rudest woman I've ever dealt with and she clearly gave me misinformation. She transfered me to a manager who was aware of the problem.  Monica was not only able to ease my concerns about the current situation but, spent another 30 minutes or more discussing the DC plan and answering my questions. My reasons to join are:
> 
> 1. paid II membership (although I have to pay for upgrade in II)



I am not sure you are able to upgrade. but I am not sure why you would need to either.



> 2. we have only traded Marriott for Marriott and now I can do that for free


 
You can do any Interval trades for free not just Marriott to Marriott



> 3. I will only use it when I want shorter stays, I'm looking at off season or when a smaller unit will fit our needs.(the youngest graduates in a few years)



Yea it is always good to have the resort Point charts handy as you may find that the week that you wish to stay at your home resort is actually less for the same week through points than just making the reservation. You may also find at times that you cannot get the week as a week reservation but are able to get it via pionts as someone has traded their week.



> 4. if I really use #3 then I could get more travel for my 2/2 at MCP than my usual week for a week.



Definitely depending on where you go. I can trade my Grand Chateau 3BR week for about 4-5 weeks in a 1BR in Orlando. But that is all Based on the value that is initially given to your home week. Funny thing is that My Parents have a KoOlina Penthouse which 60% of the year I could elect vacation Points and get back into the PH at a lower point value, granted not by much only 50 points or so.



> It was #4 and made me reconsider my earlier position. Prehaps this is all some kind of ploy to get people like me to travel in the off season but, I'm game. We did Marco island in the off season and besides daily afternoon showers, we had a great stay. We hope to soon be the pround owners of a 2/2 gold at grande vista. (I hate closing, I worry too much) We look forward to the usage of l/o but plan to mainly use this as our week to trade in II since it's not available for DC enrollment.  I have been so thankful for all of the information available from such very knowledgable owners. This site was also a big part of helping me to make my decision.



I have also found that if unexpected things occur in life the Destination points option make things far more flexible. Last year my dad passed away and all of our travel stopped. By having the destination points it made things far easier to retain all ownership as I have been able to rent off points far easier than that of weeks which has allowed us to pay for all the maintenance fees as well as gain a little extra.

Now there is one issue that will creep into things in the future but it will be worse if you are not a destination points owner. Destination points are split into two categories (Enrolled) and (Trust) these are different and not interchangable. Meaning Enrolled points cannot reserve Trust point inventory. That means that any new Marriott property that Marriott takes over or builds will be Trust point based. This means that weeks owners and Enrolled owners will not be able to get into these properties without going through II or owning Trust Points.. This is partially why the Club Dues include II as part of the deal. 

Brion


----------



## youcanfly

> Now there is one issue that will creep into things in the future but it will be worse if you are not a destination points owner. Destination points are split into two categories (Enrolled) and (Trust) these are different and not interchangable. Meaning Enrolled points cannot reserve Trust point inventory. That means that any new Marriott property that Marriott takes over or builds will be Trust point based. This means that weeks owners and Enrolled owners will not be able to get into these properties without going through II or owning Trust Points.. This is partially why the Club Dues include II as part of the deal.


Thanks for the information on the differences between these two. Everyone I've spoken with through Marriott has given me conflicting information. Don't except to purchase points any time soon but, I will keep my options open. One thing no one ever explained was a 10 month reservation window when booking a short stay. Got a little upset when I realized that I had to wait. I'm accustomed to the one year. Then I considered using my week to trade and using the 800 to and a few extra days and was told I would have to wait 4-6 weeks for my II account to activate. Bummer


----------



## bsohn

youcanfly said:


> Thanks for the information on the differences between these two. Everyone I've spoken with through Marriott has given me conflicting information. Don't except to purchase points any time soon but, I will keep my options open. One thing no one ever explained was a 10 month reservation window when booking a short stay. Got a little upset when I realized that I had to wait. I'm accustomed to the one year. Then I considered using my week to trade and using the 800 to and a few extra days and was told I would have to wait 4-6 weeks for my II account to activate. Bummer



I haven't run into the 10 month window thing YET, so I am not sure how that all works. I can imagine as it really sucks when they do not let you do what you want.. The dates of banking points and conversion and stuff is sort of strange as well, but I get why it is done as Marriott in their organization does have to know how the landscape of inventory will be as far as what will be Weeks, Points, and Reward conversions. I guess you can still use your old interval account but it will not be automatically free.. I was told when I first enrolled that they would reimburse fees if it was done after your effective date in the destination program.. (though I would fully check with your adviser before doing this).

The funny thing about all this is week owners (who bought through marriott) who may eventually by some Trust points will have a HUGE advantage over non enrolled or Trust only owners. The reason is that they will have the ability to choose to use their week, Use Trust Points, Use Enrolled Points, or exchange their units for reward points at their contracted rate.. The Trust Point to Reward point conversion really sucks..

I have so far in my reservations run into one occasion where I tried to make a reservation and it was available using Trust points but not available to Enrolled point owners.

Brion


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## korndoc

bsohn said:


> You can do any Interval trades for free not just Marriott to Marriott



Is this correct?  I thought only Marriott to Marriott trades were free, otherwise you have to pay II their fees.

Jeff


----------



## SueDonJ

bsohn said:


> ... You can do any Interval trades for free not just Marriott to Marriott ...





korndoc said:


> Is this correct?  I thought only Marriott to Marriott trades were free, otherwise you have to pay II their fees.
> 
> Jeff



It's not correct.  If you enroll Week(s) in the DC those annual dues will cover the annual fee for your new/corporate II account as well as any Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges made through that account.  The DC dues will not cover II fees if:

- you have a pending exchange request in your old/individual II account at the time of enrollment (the Week deposit will remain in that account for processing);

- you exchange a DC-enrolled Marriott Week through the new/corporate account into a non-Marriott timeshare;

- you include a non-Marriott timeshare in an ongoing request to exchange out of a DC-enrolled Marriott Week, whether or not the ongoing request is ultimately exchanged to a Marriott Week;

- you upgrade your new/corporate II account to Gold or Platinum status, or if you purchase any II extras such as Getaways, AC's, XYZ's, etc.;

- you keep an individual II account in addition to the new/corporate II account (in order to exchange out of non-Marriott timeshares.)


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## korndoc

youcanfly said:


> Surprisingly the call came about on Monday after the BIG II crash.



What BIG II crash?
Jeff


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## youcanfly

Jeff, 
Sorry I've been unavailable for a few days. The II crash I am referring to happened around the end of May. No one at II or Marriott knew what was going on and I was given a lot of false info from a rep at Marriott. It was not until I spoke with a supervisor that I learned that Marriott was working to correct the problem. Simply put, all Marriott deposits vanished from II. (literally ALL) It was very strange and was to close to the June 14th deadline for DC enrollment. This should shed more on what it was like for those few days. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171534


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## m61376

SueDonJ said:


> It's not correct.  If you enroll Week(s) in the DC those annual dues will cover the annual fee for your new/corporate II account as well as any Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges made through that account.  The DC dues will not cover II fees if:
> 
> ... if you purchase any II extras such as Getaways, AC's, XYZ's, etc.;



Is it clear that it doesn't cover xyz exchanges? I would have thought those would be included in the extras, but I know some people reported not being charged and exchange fee, although those may just have slipped through the cracks. Anyone know definitively what the policy is for those?


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## dioxide45

I think this poll needs a reset given the increase in enrollment fees today. I think also that the last option needs to be scratched. Too many people voted in this option before and couldn't change their vote once they decided and enrolled.


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## SueDonJ

dioxide45 said:


> I think this poll needs a reset given the increase in enrollment fees today. I think also that the last option needs to be scratched. Too many people voted in this option before and couldn't change their vote once they decided and enrolled.



I agree, and wrote to Brian asking for it.    Feel free to expand on the idea, here where Brian may see it.



> ... Is it possible to lock that first sticky poll down and put up a new one? I would suggest that the question remain the same but the answers be expanded to:
> - I own a single developer-direct Week which I have enrolled.
> - I own a single developer-direct Week which I have NOT enrolled.
> - I own multiple developer-direct Weeks which I have enrolled.
> - I own multiple developer-direct Weeks which I have NOT enrolled.
> - I own a single external-resale Week which I have enrolled.
> - I own a single external-resale Week which I have NOT enrolled.
> - I own multiple Weeks including at least one external-resale and have enrolled all of them.
> - I own multiple Weeks including at least one external-resale and have NOT enrolled any of them.
> - I own multiple Weeks and have enrolled only certain of them. (Please feel free to explain your reasons in this thread.)
> - I own Week(s) which were purchased post-6/20/10 and thus are not eligible for enrollment according to Marriott's current rules. If the rules change and they can be enrolled, I will most likely enroll them.
> - I own Week(s) which were purchased post-6/20/10 and thus are not eligible for enrollment according to Marriott's current rules. If the rules change and they can be enrolled, I will most likely NOT enroll them. ...


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## SueDonJ

m61376 said:


> Is it clear that it doesn't cover xyz exchanges? I would have thought those would be included in the extras, but I know some people reported not being charged and exchange fee, although those may just have slipped through the cracks. Anyone know definitively what the policy is for those?



Definitively II says that XYZ's should be considered the same as AC's in a DC/corporate account, with the exchange fees for their use NOT covered by the DC annual dues.  Like you say, though, some have slipped through the cracks.  IMO you can consider yourself lucky if you've not been charged the exchange fees, and you have no basis for fighting for it if you have.


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## m61376

SueDonJ said:


> Definitively II says that XYZ's should be considered the same as AC's in a DC/corporate account, with the exchange fees for their use NOT covered by the DC annual dues.  Like you say, though, some have slipped through the cracks.  IMO you can consider yourself lucky if you've not been charged the exchange fees, and you have no basis for fighting for it if you have.



Of course, that makes sense; I just read so many posts about it being covered I was wondering what the official policy really was. I was surprised when I read that some people reported it being covered. My guess is a loophole that will likely be shut closed securely.


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## Karenann

We joined the Destination Club enrolling our two timeshares last summer.  So far we have not used the Dpoints and have been trading on II.  We are happy with our timeshare purchases.


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## av8tor

*Question about II Membership*

So - I have enrolled one of my two weeks at MFC.  The other week doesn't qualify since it was an external resale.  

The question is with the DC membership, I know that I get II but can I add the other week (the external resale week) into that II account?  I currently do not have an II account.

Thanks in advance.

Steve


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## Apollo30

*Just joined the Marriott Destination Points Program*

I was getting concerned about joining the Marriott programme based on some research on the Internet. However most people with a grievance will air this whereas happy customers generally remain quiet. Reading some of the negative comments I concluded that a lot of these people were unrealistic or just a pain in the ass.  I decided to join for the following reasons -

As a multi-resort owner with Marriott I attended lots of owners meetings.
The biggest common complaint was that owners with better weeks or better located units had no recognition in the Interval exchange system. The idea with the points system is to make fairer exchanges so Marriott owners can see what their weeks are worth and trade up or down but inside Marriott ands not a third party like II.

Owners depositing their weeks can elect to deposit for points or to deposit with II. Only owners signed up to the points system will see both inventories.

Lastly, one of my weeks was bought third party so could not be traded for Marriott Rewards. I have now got his week into the Marriott destinations programme but I did pay nearly $1500 to do this and this option is closing if not already closed. Rosales now I understand don't allow entry into this new programme.  I say new because it has only this week or so opened to European resorts but I hear is has been running for 2 years in the USA.

It looks a great system but like all of these offers satisfaction depends on results which really means availability. Looking forward to hearing about real experiences.


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## MALC9990

*I enroled my European Weeks*

I've waited 2 years for the DC to extend to the European resorts. I've now enroled my 5 weeks - incl. 2 resales. All I need now is to put into practice all the good info that I have read here over the last 2 years.


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## Docklander

From what I've seen so far, the most annoying feature of DC is that you can't see availability unless you have the points already banked (at least I can't find a way to do this) - that makes the decision whether or not to convert a week to points a bit more of a lottery.


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## SueDonJ

Docklander said:


> From what I've seen so far, the most annoying feature of DC is that you can't see availability unless you have the points already banked (at least I can't find a way to do this) - that makes the decision whether or not to convert a week to points a bit more of a lottery.



I agree, it is annoying.  But you can call in to a VOA as many times as you want to ask them to check for Points availability, and you don't have to convert your Week(s) to Points until/unless they find what you're looking for.  Then they'll be able to take care of the conversion and reservation during the same call.

It just hit me this week that when using the online system for booking Week(s) through my-vacationclub.com, you also can't browse the availability calendar unless you have a Week available with which to search.  So if you've booked your Week already and want to re-book a different check-in, that also requires a call in to Member Services.

Each online system has its own issues with booking limitations.  IMO one isn't any better than the other, we just need to get as used to the Points one as we are with the Weeks one.


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## Docklander

SueDonJ said:


> It just hit me this week that when using the online system for booking Week(s) through my-vacationclub.com, you also can't browse the availability calendar unless you have a Week available with which to search.  So if you've booked your Week already and want to re-book a different check-in, that also requires a call in to Member Services.
> 
> Each online system has its own issues with booking limitations.  IMO one isn't any better than the other, we just need to get as used to the Points one as we are with the Weeks one.



Very true...and it's a facet of the "weeks" booking system that has annoyed me in the past as well! It can't be that hard for Marriott to program this change into the web site and you'd think it would be in their interest to do so as it would help reduce demand on VOAs


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## chipse

Will not enroll


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## SueDonJ

This thread is closed.  A new poll is being developed and will be up soon.  Thanks for your patience.


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