# Should I Rescind?



## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Just bought a refurbished 2 BR (EOY - floating week - red period) at the Sheraton Vistana Resort 2 days ago, and after reading this thread, I am ready to exercise my right to rescind. 
I have been studying about timeshare on this website and other online sources, but decided to give it a try with Starwood. Now, I am not too sure it was a sound decision. I cannot get over my fear/phobia of the MF long -term commitments.
Among other things, I was explained that I could only select one of 4 options at the beginning of the year, but could not get any combination of them:
1) use my staroptions at my home resort (7-day min stay)
2) trade my week with II external exchange
3) reserve using staroptions on a daily basis via SVN
4) convert my staroptions into starpoints (reservations as SPG)

I questioned the ability and flexibility of the reservation system, and of course was assured that, if I did not care to reserve my home resort unit (week 06) -- BTW, I did not understand why the contract would mention a specific unit, if I was on a floating 1-52 basis -- I would need to reserve 4 mo. in advance for most desirable weeks (e.g., Labor day) and less at other times. 
In addition, I discussed the maintenance fee and special assessment issue. I was assured that Starwood owners in Florida were protected by law with a 3% cap on MF annual increases and that they were not affected by special assessments (right! there was a document about a refurbishment project fee for owners at Vistana Cascades Condo Association in the contract package, although I was not "concerned" by it, as a biennal purchaser with first occupancy in 2012).
Needless to say, I did not believe the sales agent, and second I have been reviewing the contract and brochures for the last two days, and find them full of limitations and contradictions. Now, this thread and the USA Today article suggest that I should not wait for the end of the week to send my rescission letter!
Just needed to share and let your know how important TUG forums are for first time buyers like me. I would also greatly appreciate to get valuable feedback and recommendations from experienced timeshare owners, especially in Orlando, FL.


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

Welcome to TUG!    I'm so glad you found us in time!

If you bought from the developer you should absolutely rescind - these weeks are going for pennies on the resale market - in fact someone gave me one for free.

*More info. about rescinding.*

Rescind and then come back and talk timeshare with us - then you can take your time and make an informed decision with no pressure - for a fraction of the cost!

BTW - you're right - you were out right lied to!


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Thank you Denise,

I will mail my letter tomorrow and continue to study the topic.
TUG is a wonderful resource and I am glad the word is getting out there. 

Warmest regards,

Sophie

P.S. Thank you for forwarding the thread on rescinding.


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

My pleasure!  Looking forward to chatting with you!  

For your research, I'd start with the FAQ at the top of board.  Please let us know what questions you have.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Out of curiosity, can someone tell me why I had a specific week and designated unit in my contract, while buying a floating week 1-52?


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

There are no weeks at SVR that float 1-52 - someone lied to you.

Here is the Staroption chart that shows the seasons - scroll down until you find SVR.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> There are no weeks at SVR that float 1-52 - someone lied to you.
> 
> Here is the Staroption chart that shows the seasons - scroll down until you find SVR.



AMAZING!!!
Even when I challenged the fact, they continued to lie to me, assuring me it was indeed a floating week contract. So, I was going to have them rewrite the contract accordingly. Won't bother, now, for sure!


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## jarta (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie,   ...   Please rescind while you can.  Learn from the stickies and posts on TUG.  Then, and only then, decide whether to buy another timeshare.  

It is apparent you did not understand what you were getting into because your idea of what a "float" is is very wrong.  Misunderstandings like yours are why the State of Florida provides a rescission period.   Use it to your advantage.

However, the fact that you did not understand what was being said does not necessarily mean that you were lied to.  You just didn't fully understand the terms and that's really not your fault.  The concepts are complicated for a 1st time buyer and the sales people/barracudas wanted a sale.

Listen to DeniseM and others.  Rescind - and don't feel remorse or give it another thought.   ...   eom


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

My letter is ready to be mailed tomorrow, certified mail!

However, the sales agent did use the term "floating week" and asserted again that there was no "fixed week" assigned during the signature of the contract, despite the fact that it was printed black on white. Shameless! 
I even made him change the week, just in case, from week 36 to week 6, arguing that I did not like the idea of owning a week in the middle of hurricane season and after the Labor Day weekend. They reprinted the whole contract on the spot, which I was not going to sign, as it changed the name of the account; hence my doubts and questioning all along... It sounded fishy. And it was not the only issue...


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## jarta (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie,   ...   You bought a floating week.  It floats during a particular period where - at 12 months out - you can reserve a unit like the one you bought.  Your only competition at 12-8 months out in reserving would be other resort owners who own that type of unit at that resort in that float period.  Your Starwood unit does not float all year.  Just a particular period of weeks that generally is known as a "use" season.

Because of the Staroptions that come with the week you bought, you can use them like cash at 8 months out to reserve a week at a unit at your home resort during another float season or at another Starwood resort - IF you have enough Staroptions for the unit in that season and IF there is availability when you call at where you want to go.

So, there is a possibility you could end up at your home resort all year or another Starwood resort all year.  But, it's only a possibility.  And, it has nothing to do with being a 1-52 float unit.

You were deeded a particular week and a particular unit for recording purposes only.  You must look to your "use" period to determine what the "float" period is.

But, since you also probably do not understand what I am talking about, please do yourself a favor, follow through and rescind.  Then, learn what the terms mean through TUG discussions.  They are good discussions.  And, until you understand the process fully, please stay away from timeshare sales presentations.  They are opportunities to be taken advantage of because you do not understand what is being said (or not said).   ...   eom


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

There is no mention of a "use" period in the contract. The only time the word "floating" appears is in the SVN pre-confirmation checklist ("Vacation Ownership Type: Floating"), which is manuscripted, initialed by the buyer, and signed by a manager.

There is more to my desire to rescind than what was discussed in this thread. Whether it is a floating or fixed week at this point is not the decisive criterion. I actually discussed that matter on the spot. What bugs me the most is:
1) the MF and special assessment issues
2) the cost of the unit and its characteristics
3) the low amount of staroptions and starpoints for the cost
4) the lack of flexibility in the use of staroptions vs. starpoints vs. external exchange
but above all, it is simply that I have trust issues, am reactive to the lack of transparency in the transaction, combined with my insufficient knowledge of the product (was interested in HGVC and did not look into Starwood prior to the presentation), and the threads on TUG convinced me that I was not ready for such a commitment.


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## LisaRex (Jan 21, 2010)

You are wholly correct to rescind.   

I honestly wouldn't advise anyone to buy a TS in this economy.  As more people walk away from their TSs, the remaining owners are left holding the bag for their delinquent MFs in addition to their own MFs.  It's ugly and going to get uglier. 

Instead, I'd pay the $15 to join Redweek.com and rent units directly from owners or take advantage of the great rates that can be had directly from the developer.


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## Captron (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie,

First and foremost RESCIND!!!!! SEND THAT LETTER! Make sure it is specifically as instructed on the contract and many send it EVERY way mentioned on the contract (ie. fax and certified letter (with signature receipt)

Secondly, CONGRATULATIONS!!! You just saved yourself a lot of money and stress and heartache!

What phase of the resort is the contract for? What size of unit? How many Staroptions do they give you for that unit! (I have a Fountains II that has an odd number of options that makes things really difficult at times)

To answer your question: You always get a specified week for deed purposes (only), that is no surprise. They have to for real estate law purposes. Only in  a pure points based "club" like Worldmark do you not get a deed to a specific week.

Do you realize that SVR weeks are going for $1 on Ebay?

If you really want the flexibility of Staroptions you can buy SVV (mandatory phases) or WKV resale and still pay ~25-50% of what is on your contract and get the same if not more SO and trade value. (Make sure you buy the HIGHEST value season as MF are set by sq ft - ie. a silver 2BR LO with 67000 options pays the same as platinum with 96000!!!) I would recommend a minimum of 81000 options.

Probably for less than what you paid with a little patience you could get a platinum season WKV that will trade better when deposited and get a LOT more So/$!!! Orlando gets VERY POOR trade value in II compared to WKV ( often for the same $$$)!!! There are just tooooooooo many TS in Orlando. Most times you can rent for less than you would pay for MF in any given year (with the exception possibly of school holiday weeks).

Keep reading and learning you are so much better off than you were but I would suspect have much further to go (almost all of us do, especially us newbies).

Come on back! As you have experienced these are fantastic people who have the patience to answer newbie questions again and again (but please read the stickies) and they will help you immensely and give it to you straight and honest with no commission based agenda.

WELCOME!


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## Stefa (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> 4) the lack of flexibility in the use of staroptions vs. starpoints vs. external exchange



It sounds like this type of timeshare ownership may not be for you.  

None of the major hotel-based systems (Marriott Starwood Hilton) will let you trade part of your timeshare use for hotel points.  Also you cannot trade part of your week with RCI or Interval International because they only want full 7-day periods.  The only way to both use your home resort and deposit a week for external exchange within the same year is to own a lockoff (SVR doesn't have lockoffs) and use one half for trading.   Another option would be to buy an EY (every year) timeshare and trade one year and occupy the next.

You do not have to decide at the beginning of the year how you will use your timeshare unless you want to exchange for Starpoints.   However, timeshares generally work better if you can either plan well in advance or travel during off-season.

Have you looked into Worldmark or one of the other points systems?  These are somewhat more flexible as far as how you use them and may work better for you.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

There is no mention of a "use" period in the contract. The only time the word "floating" appears is in the SVN pre-confirmation checklist ("Vacation Ownership Type: Floating"), which is manuscripted, initialed by the buyer, and signed by a manager.

There is more to my desire to rescind than what was discussed in this thread. Whether it is a floating or fixed week at this point is not the decisive criterion. I actually discussed that matter on the spot. What bugs me the most is:
1) the MF and special assessment issues
2) the cost of the unit and its characteristics
3) the low amount of staroptions and starpoints for the cost
4) the lack of flexibility in the use of staroptions vs. starpoints vs. external exchange
but above all, it is simply that I have trust issues, am reactive to the lack of transparency in the transaction, combined with my insufficient knowledge of the product (was interested in HGVC and did not look into Starwood prior to the presentation), and the threads on TUG convinced me that I was not ready for such a commitment.


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## pointsjunkie (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Out of curiosity, can someone tell me why I had a specific week and designated unit in my contract, while buying a floating week 1-52?



all my floating weeks have a specific week and designated unit on the contracts. that is the way they keep tabs on what is sold. they can't sell more blocks than they have.

each unit has 52 owners.


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## Captron (Jan 21, 2010)

Cascades at SVR has lockoffs, there may be more but I am sure about these at least.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

*Here is the edit of the double posting I could not validate.*

I am all for transparency, so here is the info on the deal I got for those who would like to know:
2 BR Biennal (even year- first year of occupancy in 2012) at Sheraton Vistana Resort - Cascades (SVR - SV1) - Phase 17
Home resort season: Prime (or Red) - Sunday to Sunday
Unit valuation: 76 000 Staroptions / 32 000 Starpoints (conversion due betweeen Oct 1 of prior year and March 31st of year of use)
Redemption fee to starpoints: $99
Vacation Ownership Type: Floating - Week 06E Unit 2755 recently renovated at SVR Cascades. No Special assessment residual charges for biennal purchasers with first occupancy in 2012.
Price: $11,700.00 - MF: 694.23 on annual base or $345.61 biennally - Estimated Ad Valorem Taxes: $69.42 annually.
Possibility to convert to annual for an extra $6,200.00 by January 2011.
Closing costs: $550 (officially $550 - but settlement charges in purchase contract = $258.34)
Incentive package:
25 000 SPG Starpoints + 76 000 Staroptions (requires payment of 10% of purchased price prior to use) + 12 getaways on II + SPG gold status + $400 or 20 000 points per referral + $100 cash back prior to the presentation + 50% off my next two hotel reservations.

And to reply to some of you: No, I didn't know about SVR units going for $1, Redweek.com, and Worldmark. More to explore!
I have been browsing TUG since I took HGVC presentation at Parc Soleil in Nov 2009.
We have a 4 y.o., so that is why I will need access to Orlando for a while, but so far I have been able to get good hotel deals outside of the WDR area. In addition, I signed up for both HHonors and SPG last year, because I also travel for conferences at least twice a year. Any suggestions are most welcome.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

For more flexibility (using staroptions and starpoints in the same year), the sales agent suggested having two EOY units, one even and one odd, and borrowing for the next year instead of consolidating annually within 12 mo.
I did not even try to reflect on opr challenge that statement. However, he failed to mention that it requires to be current with the MF of the next year.


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## LisaRex (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> For more flexibility (using staroptions and starpoints in the same year), the sales agent suggested having two EOY units, one even and one odd, and borrowing for the next year instead of consolidating annually within 12 mo.
> I did not even try to reflect on opr challenge that statement. However, he failed to mention that it requires to be current with the MF of the next year.



He probably also failed to mention that when you borrow from the next year, you can't reserve a year in advance.  Or 11 months in advance.  Or 10 months in advance.  (Are you getting the picture?) No, you have to wait until the 90 day window opens up.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Yep, that too, and a bunch of other restrictions embedded in their new brochure and the tiny printouts on the back of each page of the purchase agreement...


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## Stefa (Jan 21, 2010)

*Rescind*

Sophie

Don't waste your time trying to make Starwood/Vistana (or any other developer purchase) meet your needs.  Just rescind and start researching other options.    

The best way to approach this is to sit down and figure out what your short term and long term vacation needs are.  You can use that as a starting point to determine what, if any, timeshare system will work for you.


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## Stricky (Jan 21, 2010)

RECIND!!!

oh wait... someone already said that...


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## AwayWeGo (Jan 21, 2010)

*Fixed Week On Deed But Floating Week In Actuality.*




Sophie said:


> Out of curiosity, can someone tell me why I had a specific week and designated unit in my contract, while buying a floating week 1-52?


I don't know specifically about Vistana Orlando, but just a little ways up Rt. 535 not far from Vistana Orlando I own a deeded 3BR week 10 unit at  another timeshare where I have no special claim at all on that unit or that week. 

That's because the use rules for that timeshare, which are incorporated by reference in everybody's deed, specify that all weeks are floating, some 1-52 (Diamond Time) & others during quieter seasons of lower demand (Emerald Time). 

I'm pretty sure something similar is the case at other floating-week timeshares as well. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Stefa said:


> Sophie
> 
> Don't waste your time trying to make Starwood/Vistana (or any other developer purchase) meet your needs.  Just rescind and start researching other options.
> 
> The best way to approach this is to sit down and figure out what your short term and long term vacation needs are.  You can use that as a starting point to determine what, if any, timeshare system will work for you.



Just came back from the post office. I did send my letter certified mail, following the instructions in my purchase agreement. There was no option to send a fax in addition to regular mail. A big relief. Hopefully, I will get my deposit back before payment is due on my credit card.
I think I could make good use of a TS, but I did not feel confident I was getting my money worth at the SVR. Plus, there were too many errors (e.g., wrong starting date for MF & Taxes) and limitations attached to my contract. I am interested in the resale market, and was wondering if I would be happier with a HGVC rather than a Starwood TS as a start.


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## LisaRex (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Hopefully, I will get my deposit back before payment is due on my credit card.



Call your cc company and explain that you are expecting a credit on that particular line item so that you won't be obligated to pay. Starwood is very good about refunding money, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.



> I think I could make good use of a TS, but I did not feel confident I was getting my money worth at the SVR. Plus, there were too many errors (e.g., wrong starting date for MF & Taxes) and limitations attached to my contract. I am interested in the resale market, and was wondering if I would be happier with a HGVC rather than a Starwood TS as a start.



Certainly you should investigate both clubs, as well as Marriott, thoroughly before committing to anything.   Resale is definitely the way to go. 

I think most people are happy with HGVC but they, like Starwood, have a very limited network.  For instance, there are no HGVC's on Maui.  That was a deal killer for me. Marriott, on the other hand, has 65 TSs in their network.  However, there are downsides to owning Marriott (e.g. multi-week owners get priority when making reservations) that may concern you.


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## Bill4728 (Jan 21, 2010)

RE Hilton & Marriott,

There are lots of TS out there and maybe buying a super cheap one like SVR (resale) is a good idea. BUT Hilton does have two things going for it that Sheraton & marriott do not.
-Everyone buying resale (at a true HGVC resort) can trade their TS for hotel points
-Everyone buying resale (at a true HGVC resort) can trade their TS for for HGVC points. HGVC pts can be used for internal trading within the HGVC system. (There is no internal system for Marriott. And  only resale buyers at a Starwood mandatory resort can do internal trading. )

After all that we still bought Marriott, because the resort we most wanted to visit is a Marriott resort in SoCal.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

*Working on listing my specs...*



LisaRex said:


> Call your cc company and explain that you are expecting a credit on that particular line item so that you won't be obligated to pay. Starwood is very good about refunding money, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have been getting a lot of good tips and great suggestions in such a short time!
Looking retrospectively at our travelling habits, I would say that, in a dream world, we would like:
- access to multiple destinations at no extra charge (past and long-term goals)
- Low MF (I am MF/special assessment phobic!!! - I live in a gated community and saw my association fees go up from $180 to $315?mo. - +$40 in less than 6 mo. due to delinquent accounts + $10,000 special assessment for fixing structural defects in 296 units - 4 had to be demolished)
- Low initial cost (more important if I can resell my TS more easily, in case MF go sky rocketting)
- good trading power;
- access to school recess periods (most probably platinum/high demand period)
- family oriented locations (have a 4 y.o. who just got a taste of Disney World)
- the possibility of travelling by car or being a short flight away from Miami, FL (tight budget, hard to travel with small kids)
I have been reading more about points systems like Worldmark and Bluegreen, but I need to find more recent information on comparisons. 
The whole topic of TS and resale market definitely complex and requires extensive reading. But the hardest to grasp and master, when one does not own a TS yet, is the whole trading/depositing/reservation business. Sooooooooooooo much to learn...


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## DanCali (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> I have been getting a lot of good tips and great suggestions in such a short time!
> Looking retrospectively at our travelling habits, I would say that, in a dream world, we would like:
> - access to multiple destinations at no extra charge (past and long-term goal)
> - Low MF (I am MF phobic!!! - I live in a gated community and saw my association fees go up from $180 to $315 -- +$40 in less than 6 mo. due to delinquent accounts)
> ...




Sophie,

Did you mail your recission letter to:

SVO Pacific Inc. 
ATTN: Document Administration
9002 San Marco Court
Orlando, FL 32819

If so, you can also fax it to: 407-903-4718. I went through the same process last year and used both fax, USPS and disputed the charge with Amex.

In regards to other systems - take your time to learn and always buy resale. Worldmark has low MFs and cap increases at 5% a year as well, but it's probably not the best fit if you live on the east coast (unless you buy exclusively to trade, which some people do). Marriott can be a good system for you - they have resorts all over the country so you can vacation close to home or all the way in Hawaii, or even Europe or Thailand. Their MFs are not low (although lower than many Starwoods), but have historically been more stable than Starwood and that's important. If you buy a Platinum week you should have very good exchange power once you know how to exchange. You may also want to consider LisaRex's advice to just rent from owners posting on RedWeek or the TUG marketplace. At many places rental prices are not much more than MFs, and you don't have to worry too much. For example, we just recently stayed in a 2BR very close to Disneyworld for less than $100/night - even though I own a couple of timeshares, I felt I could use them better than an Orlando stay.

Whatever you do don't rush into it and good luck!


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## Stricky (Jan 21, 2010)

Take a look into DVC (Disney Vacation Club). It meets most of your requirements. I do not own there but most owners seem very happy.

As an added bonus DVC does not work like anything you have learned so far so you have a whole bunch more to read about.


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Sophie,
> 
> Did you mail your recission letter to:
> 
> ...


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## Sophie (Jan 21, 2010)

Stricky said:


> Take a look into DVC (Disney Vacation Club). It meets most of your requirements. I do not own there but most owners seem very happy.
> 
> As an added bonus DVC does not work like anything you have learned so far so you have a whole bunch more to read about.



I definitely will. Thanks!


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## osman (Jan 21, 2010)

Bill4728 said:


> ...
> After all that we still bought Marriott, because the resort we most wanted to visit is a Marriott resort in SoCal.



That reiterates an important point for all new to timeshares to remember: buy at the location where you want to go. It's best if you don't have to rely on getting a trade to enjoy your TS. Trading is a nice benefit, particularly if you are flexible in location or dates, but shifting policies or point values could turn  an easy trade this year into a difficult trade in the future. Not that Starwood would do anything like that...

--Osman


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## James1975NY (Jan 21, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> There are no weeks at SVR that float 1-52 - someone lied to you.
> 
> Here is the Staroption chart that shows the seasons - scroll down until you find SVR.



Couple of things...

 - I am not 100% sure but I believe that the Cascades and Lakes owners (if they are going back to home resort) may actually have one season. Other owners that are exchanging into SVR from another resort will be subject to two seasons. Again, not 100% sure here. Or maybe it is the old fixed phases that have the one season as well...again not 100% sure.

Alternatively.....

 - If all owners are subject to the two-seasons at SVR, owning in the highest season would mean that you would have access to all 52 weeks of the year.


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> Couple of things...
> 
> - If all owners are subject to the two-seasons at SVR, owning in the highest season would mean that you would have access to all 52 weeks of the year.



Not during the 12 - 8 mos. owner's preference period, though, right?

Plat season owner could exchange into gold season at 8 mos.?


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## James1975NY (Jan 21, 2010)

Sophie said:


> DanCali said:
> 
> 
> > Sophie,
> ...


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## James1975NY (Jan 21, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Not during the 12 - 8 mos. owner's preference period, though, right?
> 
> Plat season owner could exchange into gold season at 8 mos.?



Correct, if they are subject to the two-seasons. Remember, we are talking about sales....they didnt say how or when, just that they had access to all 52 weeks. Not how I would sell it but not necessarily any lies there.


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## stevens397 (Jan 21, 2010)

What makes me laugh is that I'm sure everyone on this board never had to read your post.  The title was enough for them to open so they could write, "YES - RESCIND IMMEDIATELY!"


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## yumdrey (Jan 21, 2010)

*HGVC or Bluegreen*

I saw that you are located in Miami, FL, so I would not recommend Worldmark. Worldmark resorts (60+) are mostly located on west coast.
Bluegreen is similar system to Worldmark, and it is not expensive to purchase. Most of their resorts are on east coast.
Also I want to recommend HGVC for you. HGVC has many "affiliated" resort in west FL. so you are close to them.
HGVC is not cheap, but it is cheaper than what you just paid to SVR! 
One of the great benefit of HGVC is, they have "Open season", if resorts have available rooms within 30 days, owners pay certain amount of cash (for example, $80 for 1BR, $100 for 2BR, etc..) to use the units. 
When I check availability in 9 month booking window, I see almost all resorts/units available except prime ski weeks. HGVC has the best availability than other systems, so owners don't have hassle for reservation. You don't have to call exactly 9am EST to make a reservation (Starwood, Marriott and Four Seasons) or use special trick to reserve a week in popular resort at 13 months mark (Worldmark).
Good luck with your research, and congrats you rescinded at right time!


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## DeniseM (Jan 21, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> Correct, if they are subject to the two-seasons. Remember, we are talking about sales....they didnt say how or when, just that they had access to all 52 weeks. Not how I would sell it but not necessarily any lies there.



So the next line must be, "You also have the _opportunity_ to exchange into all other Starwood resorts like Harborside Atlantis, and Westin St. John!"


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## grgs (Jan 21, 2010)

James1975NY said:


> Couple of things...
> 
> - I am not 100% sure but I believe that the Cascades and Lakes owners (if they are going back to home resort) may actually have one season. Other owners that are exchanging into SVR from another resort will be subject to two seasons. Again, not 100% sure here.



This is correct--SVR Cascades & Lakes are 1-52 float for the purpose of owners making a reservation.  However, SVN owners at other resorts exchanging are subject to two different seasons with differing staroption valuations.

Glorian


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## grgs (Jan 21, 2010)

Stefa said:


> The only way to both use your home resort and deposit a week for external exchange within the same year is to own a lockoff (SVR doesn't have lockoffs) and use one half for trading.



Both Cascades and Lakes phases at SVR have lockoffs.

Glorian


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## Robert D (Jan 22, 2010)

Isn't it amazing that Starwood is selling an EOY timeshare for over $11,000 that can be bought for $1.00?  I guess they are finding lots of buyers to fleece.


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## DanCali (Jan 22, 2010)

Robert D said:


> Isn't it amazing that Starwood is selling an EOY timeshare for over $11,000 that can be bought for $1.00?  I guess they are finding lots of buyers to fleece.



Well, you do get it with StarOptions if you buy from the developer so you definitely get more...

They are just counting on the fact that you won't care (or don't realize) you lose 100% of your equity 7 days after you buy.


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## SDKath (Jan 22, 2010)

I second the DVC point purchase!  With a little kid, you will get many years of use.  You can use your points at WDW or in CA at DL, plus they are opening th Hawaii resort in Mid 2011.  You can also book cruises on the Disney Cruise Line, which is wildly popular with kids and adults alike!

You can buy as many or as little points as you want and you can travel for a few days or a week or even longer.  The flexibility is the best with DVC of any timeshare.  As a matter of fact, it doesn't feel like a timeshare to own with them at all.  The points have also retained their value more than any other system.

Feel free to send me a private message if you have questions.  I cannot say enough about the Disney program.  (We just booked a holiday cruise to Mexico for 2011 for free using our points!). 

Katherine


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## LisaRex (Jan 22, 2010)

Robert D said:


> Isn't it amazing that Starwood is selling an EOY timeshare for over $11,000 that can be bought for $1.00?  I guess they are finding lots of buyers to fleece.



You only need one $11,000 buyer to make up for 11,000 $1 buyers...


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

grgs said:


> This is correct--SVR Cascades & Lakes are 1-52 float for the purpose of owners making a reservation.  However, SVN owners at other resorts exchanging are subject to two different seasons with differing staroption valuations.
> 
> Glorian



In my pre-confirmation checklist, it mentioned I was getting "prime" season."
In the purchase agreement, it was labelled "Red."
Then, it occurs that there are only gold and standard platinum season categories in the SVR staroptions chart.


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Well, you do get it with StarOptions if you buy from the developer so you definitely get more...
> 
> They are just counting on the fact that you won't care (or don't realize) you lose 100% of your equity 7 days after you buy.



From my readings and recent exposure to the Starwood sales speech, the problem I see with Starwood, for someone looking for low initial cost and good trading power for access to multiple locations, is that it is hard to gain full access to the SVN for a resale buyer.Subsequently, I wonder if it is better to turn to a TS point system that does not penalize resale buyers as much. The only good think from the sale package I got was all the incentives and staroptions/starpoints conversion possibility. Now, the question are:
1) What are the actual limitations when buying a mandatory SVO unit resale, considering that Starwood is regularly changing rules unilaterally?
2) The costs and roadblocks incurred when attempting to requalify a voluntary SVO unit bought on the resale market?
This is why I wonder whether turning to HVGC is not a better option for me, as suggested by others, despite the higher cost: more presence in the US, esp. South Florida, does not penalize resale buyers as much, once passing the ROFR roadblock, more stability in MFs.

Any comment?


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> I saw that you are located in Miami, FL, so I would not recommend Worldmark. Worldmark resorts (60+) are mostly located on west coast.
> Bluegreen is similar system to Worldmark, and it is not expensive to purchase. Most of their resorts are on east coast.
> Also I want to recommend HGVC for you. HGVC has many "affiliated" resort in west FL. so you are close to them.
> HGVC is not cheap, but it is cheaper than what you just paid to SVR!
> ...



Your comments suggest that HGVC would be a better fit for me than Starwood. Not sure about Marriott; has not been on my reading list! 
Now, I definitely want to know more about Bluegreen...


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

SDKath said:


> I second the DVC point purchase!  With a little kid, you will get many years of use.  You can use your points at WDW or in CA at DL, plus they are opening th Hawaii resort in Mid 2011.  You can also book cruises on the Disney Cruise Line, which is wildly popular with kids and adults alike!
> 
> You can buy as many or as little points as you want and you can travel for a few days or a week or even longer.  The flexibility is the best with DVC of any timeshare.  As a matter of fact, it doesn't feel like a timeshare to own with them at all.  The points have also retained their value more than any other system.
> 
> ...



Hi Katherine,

I had written you a long email backchannel, but I think it got lost in Cyberspace. So, I will post a short version publicly:
We have been happy cruisers with Carnival for the last two years. I would consider Disney Cruises, if they were cheaper and not from Port Canaveral (I know, I am spoilt, living in Miami!). In any case:
How much is a DVC point? How many points are necessary for a cruise? for a two or three 3-nt weekends in Orlando? I have seasonal passes, so I would never book more than 3-nt stays in Orlando.
Otherwise, we have one big trip (e.g., Europe, Peru) or a couple of cruises per year. We have slowed down on the faraway trips, due to budget restrictions. Hence, that Orlando year so far (4 trips scheduled between Nov 2009 and May 2010).
Thanks for offering guidance.


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## Stricky (Jan 22, 2010)

Check out this place to get DVC info: http://mouseowners.com/forums/

DVC points cost between $75 and $100 a point (ballpark) depending on the resort you buy. A lot of people use a 3 year plan with DVC.

Say you buy 50 points. You bank the first year, the second year you now have 100 points and you can borrow a year in advance making it 150 points. So every three years you go on a nice Disney trip with the points you bank/use/borrow. Hope that makes sense.


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

Stricky said:


> Check out this place to get DVC info: http://mouseowners.com/forums/
> 
> DVC points cost between $75 and $100 a point (ballpark) depending on the resort you buy. A lot of people use a 3 year plan with DVC.
> 
> Say you buy 50 points. You bank the first year, the second year you now have 100 points and you can borrow a year in advance making it 150 points. So every three years you go on a nice Disney trip with the points you bank/use/borrow. Hope that makes sense.



Thanks a lot, Stricky.
Great link to learn all about DVC points. It seems like the ideal option for my short-term plans and a good start for my vacation planning portfolio. And they have a resale market! :whoopie:


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## DanCali (Jan 22, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Thanks a lot, Stricky.
> Great link to learn all about DVC points. It seems like the ideal option for my short-term plans and a good start for my vacation planning portfolio. And they have a resale market! :whoopie:



Not familiar much with Disney but from what I know these are RTU (Right to Use) which expire in about 30 years. Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to understand that RTU ownership is guaranteed to be worth zero where the RTU expires (meaning that even if MFs are constant, resale values will go down over time). So all that stuff about deeding it to your kids you heard at Starwood does not apply - you ae literally prepaying for your vacations for the next 30 years.


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Not familiar much with Disney but from what I know these are RTU (Right to Use) which expire in about 30 years. Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to understand that RTU ownership is guaranteed to be worth zero where the RTU expires (meaning that even if MFs are constant, resale values will go down over time). So all that stuff about deeding it to your kids you heard at Starwood does not apply - you ae literally prepaying for your vacations for the next 30 years.



And I imagine that if you buy on the resale market, it is whatever time is left on the initial contract, right?
BTW, I have lived in Miami since 2000 -- travelled regularly to South Florida since 1991 prior to moving down there, and Nov 2009 was my first time to WDW, because my daughter turned 4. So, I do not see myself being a Disney addict, after my kids grow up. Therefore, a RTU with a shorter period, if accompanied with a lower initial cost, would be fine with me.


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## DanCali (Jan 22, 2010)

Sophie said:


> And I imagine that if you buy on the resale market, it is whatever time is left on the initial contract, right?
> BTW, I have lived in Miami since 2000 -- travelled regularly to South Florida since 1991 prior to moving fown there, and Nov 2009 was my time to WDW, because my daughter turned 4. So, I do not see myself being a Disney addict, after my kids grow up. Therefore, a RTU with a shorter period, if accompanied with a lower initial cost, would be fine with me.



Yes, it's whatever is left on the initial contract. Shorter period should be accompanied by lower cost, if everything else is equal. I imagine where you buy also makes a difference in terms of the quality of the accomodations.

My main point was that you should expect to lose money over time on this ownership because it is essentially part of the deal. Ten years from now a potential buyer will not get the same number of use years you had so they should pay less (unless, for example, the benefit of owning versus renting changes dramatically in the owner's favor in that period).


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## timeos2 (Jan 22, 2010)

*It's guaranteed to be zero value in the future*



DanCali said:


> Not familiar much with Disney but from what I know these are RTU (Right to Use) which expire in about 30 years. Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to understand that RTU ownership is guaranteed to be worth zero where the RTU expires (meaning that even if MFs are constant, resale values will go down over time). So all that stuff about deeding it to your kids you heard at Starwood does not apply - you ae literally prepaying for your vacations for the next 30 years.



Correct and fees do not stay constant, are already some of the highest around and usually go even higher each year. The downward pressure on resale price value has been great the past few years and is getting stronger as credit for timeshares - even DVC now has serious problems with getting credit - is tough to impossible to obtain. Assume prices are going down and what you pay today will look like too much in only a month or two.  You should also study renting as the real value in timeshares as a user is currently in that area.  Many, even DVC, are offered for rent at or only slightly above the cost of annual fees and you don't have to pay any upfront purchase price when renting.  And by renting you can often obtain the exact resort/time you desire far easier than playing the owners reservation game months in advance. 

Buy if you want to use the vacation time and it is a value to you. Don't  buy if you plan to use outside of DVC (trade value, while high, isn't a good deal for the buyer) or if you think it will hold the resale value of today. It won't. There are no exceptions to rapidly declining resale prices anymore.


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> Correct and fees do not stay constant, are already some of the highest around and usually go even higher each year. The downward pressure on resale price value has been great the past few years and is getting stronger as credit for timeshares - even DVC now has serious problems with getting credit - is tough to impossible to obtain. Assume prices are going down and what you pay today will look like too much in only a month or two.  You should also study renting as the real value in timeshares as a user is currently in that area.  Many, even DVC, are offered for rent at or only slightly above the cost of annual fees and you don't have to pay any upfront purchase price when renting.  And by renting you can often obtain the exact resort/time you desire far easier than playing the owners reservation game months in advance.
> 
> Buy if you want to use the vacation time and it is a value to you. Don't  buy if you plan to use outside of DVC (trade value, while high, isn't a good deal for the buyer) or if you think it will hold the resale value of today. It won't. There are no exceptions to rapidly declining resale prices anymore.



Checked renting offers on MouseOwners.com. Quite pricey compared to promotional hotel rates.


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## timeos2 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Checked renting offers on MouseOwners.com. Quite pricey compared to promotional hotel rates.



DVC units are not hotel rooms. That is not a direct comparison in accommodations. If you are willing to settle for hotel rooms then even thinking about DVC as a purchase is silly. The cost will be far higher.


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## Sophie (Jan 22, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> DVC units are not hotel rooms. That is not a direct comparison in accommodations. If you are willing to settle for hotel rooms then even thinking about DVC as a purchase is silly. The cost will be far higher.



I might not be using the right terminology. I am not talking about a hotel room, but direct rates from the resort or hotel. For example, I just got a 2BR suite at the HGVC on International Drive for $153/night (total cost, taxes included = $516.38) for Labor Day weekend. For the same weekend (Adventure Season = lowest # of points), based on 2009 DVC point chart for the VWL, I would need 150 points. Points are currently for rent at $9 to $13 per point. So I would pay twice as much to stay at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge, renting from a DVC owner. Let me know if I am wrong.


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## timeos2 (Jan 22, 2010)

*DVC is the ultimate in boutique stays - if you don't have to have it its a waste of $*



Sophie said:


> I might not be using the right terminology. I am not talking about a hotel room, but direct rates from the resort or hotel. For example, I just got a 2BR suite at the HGVC on International Drive for $153/night (total cost, taxes included = $516.38) for Labor Day weekend. For the same weekend (Adventure Season = lowest # of points), based on 2009 DVC point chart for the VWL, I would need 150 points. Points are currently for rent at $9 to $13 per point. So I would pay twice as much to stay at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge, renting from a DVC owner. Let me know if I am wrong.



That is comparing off site timeshares (much nicer units & far more space than hotels and/or most Disney resorts) to DVC prices. If you don't HAVE to be on site (inside the gates of Disney surrounded 24/7 by everything Disney) then you are wasting money on rental or purchase of DVC.  The ONLY reason to own it is if you aren't happy being anywhere else. If you find HGVC fits your needs, you like it for amenities, cost, size, etc then you are far better off forgetting about DVC. Maybe you'd want to buy a timeshare but even that, at least for the next few years, may not make sense when you can rent it for the annual fees or less from many owners.  Again without up fornt cost to you. If you have a specific resort you wish to use at a busy time then maybe it would make sense to buy in to assure that you have that access but thats just about the only reason to buy right now.


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## Ken555 (Jan 23, 2010)

Don't forget II Getaways in Orlando are plentiful (though I'm not sure of holiday weekends)... we had a 2-bed Marriott unit for ~$500 a couple of years ago. Why buy when renting a week for less than MF, especially if you don't need to be on-property.


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## Sophie (Jan 23, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> That is comparing off site timeshares (much nicer units & far more space than hotels and/or most Disney resorts) to DVC prices. If you don't HAVE to be on site (inside the gates of Disney surrounded 24/7 by everything Disney) then you are wasting money on rental or purchase of DVC.  The ONLY reason to own it is if you aren't happy being anywhere else. If you find HGVC fits your needs, you like it for amenities, cost, size, etc then you are far better off forgetting about DVC. Maybe you'd want to buy a timeshare but even that, at least for the next few years, may not make sense when you can rent it for the annual fees or less from many owners.  Again without up fornt cost to you. If you have a specific resort you wish to use at a busy time then maybe it would make sense to buy in to assure that you have that access but thats just about the only reason to buy right now.



Hi John,
I gave up on staying on property because of the high cost and low availability of properties of interest when we were planning to go there. My 4 y.o. does not know better and my husband and I don't care being immersed in the Disney world, so it has become a non-issue. We want to try the Wilderness Lodge some day, but we would not make it a pilgrimage. 
Thank you for your helpful comments.


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## Sophie (Jan 23, 2010)

Ken555 said:


> Don't forget II Getaways in Orlando are plentiful (though I'm not sure of holiday weekends)... we had a 2-bed Marriott unit for ~$500 a couple of years ago. Why buy when renting a week for less than MF, especially if you don't need to be on-property.



Hi Ken,

Are getaways 7-day stays? Being from Miami, FL, my husband does not use his vacation time to go to Orlando. Hence, the 3-nt weekends. 
I will continue standard booking and browsing the rental market for this year, while learning and exploring possibilities of purchasing TS on the resale market. Based on all the input, I want to learn more about HGVC and read about Bluegreen and Marriott.
Thank you for your feedback.


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## LisaRex (Jan 23, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> Are getaways 7-day stays? Being from Miami, FL, my husband does not use his vacation time to go to Orlando. Hence, the 3-nt weekends.



Yes, Getaways are for 7 days. 

If you want less than a weekly stay in the Starwood network, you have to wait until the 90 day window opens up.  An additional strike against that system for you.  In fact, I'm not sure any TS system would work well given that scenario.


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## Sophie (Jan 23, 2010)

*Update on Starwood rescission letter*

I got a phone call from Starwood Corporate yesterday. It was a very courteous lady, excellent listener. She acknowledged receipt of my cancellation letter and asked me if I could give the reason why I exercised my right to rescind. I gave her all my reasons. She acknowledged them as being good reasons for rescinding, based on my experience.

She also answered questions about resale vs. developer, mandatory vs voluntary resorts, and ability to requalify a secondary market purchase. As we discussed Starwood's position on making it harder to access the SVN for resale owners, she indicated that the current conditions to requalify is to buy additional property from the developer for at least $20,000.00 to $40,000.00, depending on the type of property.

She said that potential buyers can actually call Starwood corporate agents directly with all their questions about Starwood TS, and receive more detailed documentation so that they can study the topic at their own pace, without the pressure of a presentation sales agent. Finally, she mentioned that there is no penalty for refusing or cancelling a sale at or after a presentation, because one does not like to buy under pressure.


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## DeniseM (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi Sophie!  I'm glad it's going well for you!

Take your time - prices are not going up and you want to make a decision you are 100% happy with, if you do decide to buy resale.


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## jerseygirl (Jan 23, 2010)

Hyatt and Hilton both work well for shorter stays -- you don't have to wait to the 90-day mark to book them.  Both programs are way more flexible than Starwood's program.  Hyatt's resorts are a little higher-end than most Starwoods and Hilton's resorts are comparable for the most part (some of the SW Florida Hilton affiliates are not as high-end as most Starwoods, but they're close and they make up for any deficiencies with location, location, location!  More importantly, maintenance fees have been much more stable at both Hyatt and Hilton and management doesn't seem to come up with ways to annoy owners -- they actually appreciate them!  

Hilton works especially well for Orlando as there is usually open season inventory -- you can rent for about the same or less than the maintenance fees (depending on days of the week/unit size).  I bought a small contract a few years ago and use open season all the time.  I LOVE it!

Hyatt was building timeshares (or converting hotel space) at the Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress in Orlando -- a lovely resort if you've never been there.  But, I'm not sure if they stopped given the economy.  

If short stays in Orlando are a priority for the next few years, I would buy a small Hilton contract (e.g., 4800 points -- one-BR platinum for the smaller maintenance fee) and take advantage of open season.  I'm a huge fan of the Hilton program.  This year, we used part of our points for an oceanfront unit in Waikiki, then converted the balance to hotel points ... planning on using open season for whatever else might come up.


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## Sophie (Jan 24, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> Hyatt and Hilton both work well for shorter stays -- you don't have to wait to the 90-day mark to book them.  Both programs are way more flexible than Starwood's program.  Hyatt's resorts are a little higher-end than most Starwoods and Hilton's resorts are comparable for the most part (some of the SW Florida Hilton affiliates are not as high-end as most Starwoods, but they're close and they make up for any deficiencies with location, location, location!  More importantly, maintenance fees have been much more stable at both Hyatt and Hilton and management doesn't seem to come up with ways to annoy owners -- they actually appreciate them!
> 
> Hilton works especially well for Orlando as there is usually open season inventory -- you can rent for about the same or less than the maintenance fees (depending on days of the week/unit size).  I bought a small contract a few years ago and use open season all the time.  I LOVE it!
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your input. Very helpful!


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## jerseygirl (Jan 24, 2010)

Sophie said:


> Thank you very much for your input. Very helpful!



You're very welcome.  I'm a huge fan of both Hilton and Hyatt ... only put up with Starwood because I love WSJ and Harborside.  My greatest wish is for Starwood corp to need cash and sell SVO to Hilton or Hyatt!


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## Sophie (Jan 24, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> You're very welcome.  I'm a huge fan of both Hilton and Hyatt ... only put up with Starwood because I love WSJ and Harborside.  My greatest wish is for Starwood corp to need cash and sell SVO to Hilton or Hyatt!



Yes, Starwood seems like a hazardous investment at this time, especially after reading the recent USA Today article or the thread about the project of a class action suit.


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## jerseygirl (Jan 24, 2010)

Very true.  But, no timeshare is really an investment.  It's just a way of vacationing -- I love the extra room (I'm an early riser and want the living room and kitchen while waiting for others to crawl out of bed), the washer and dryer (allows for less packing and meets my obsessive compulsive need for clean clothes) ... but also want a resort with restaurant, bar, great pool/beach and therefore don't really like the "rental house" way of vacationing.  

I use a 10-year horizon for timeshares I intend to use and a 5-year horizon for timeshares I intend to trade ... assume all will be worth $0 (and hope they can be sold for $1 on ebay!) ... and compare the amortized purchase costs + guesstimate of maintenance fees to see if I think I'll save money.  If yes, it's a win.   (I don't figure cost of money into the calculation as it comes from a disposable pool that would otherwise almost assuredly get spent on other frivolous items.)  It's worked well for us for about 10 years ... but now we're seeing some formerly popular timeshares that won't even sell for $1 on ebay ... so that changes the equation as I don't want to own anything forever (and therefore agree with your earlier comment about RTUs).   Why anyone assumes their kids will want to deal with this stuff is beyond me -- my dd knows the golden rules (location, quality and ebay) ... and that will get her through life just fine!


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## Sophie (Jan 24, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> Very true.  But, no timeshare is really an investment.  It's just a way of vacationing -- I love the extra room (I'm an early riser and want the living room and kitchen while waiting for others to crawl out of bed), the washer and dryer (allows for less packing and meets my obsessive compulsive need for clean clothes) ... but also want a resort with restaurant, bar, great pool/beach and therefore don't really like the "rental house" way of vacationing.
> 
> I use a 10-year horizon for timeshares I intend to use and a 5-year horizon for timeshares I intend to trade ... assume all will be worth $0 (and hope they can be sold for $1 on ebay!) ... and compare the amortized purchase costs + guesstimate of maintenance fees to see if I think I'll save money.  If yes, it's a win.   (I don't figure cost of money into the calculation as it comes from a disposable pool that would otherwise almost assuredly get spent on other frivolous items.)  It's worked well for us for about 10 years ... but now we're seeing some formerly popular timeshares that won't even sell for $1 on ebay ... so that changes the equation as I don't want to own anything forever (and therefore agree with your earlier comment about RTUs).   Why anyone assumes their kids will want to deal with this stuff is beyond me -- my dd knows the golden rules (location, quality and ebay) ... and that will get her through life just fine!



Thank you for your analysis, Jerseygirl. These are some aspects I have come to realize about TS -- and I am sure I still have A LOT more to learn. I am focusing initially on the quality/cost of the TS purchase (I previously use the word investment, meaning something in which I put money, not any form of real estate speculation), then comparing it with how much I spend to get access to similar resorts on a rental basis (I also like the luxury of a second room and kitchen), and trying to figure out my vacationing needs in the next 10-years -- not an easy task. So, I am currently reviewing my past and current vacation and conference expenses to guess-timate my future needs. TUG forum members, such as you, are offering valuable help in the process.


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## clsmit (Jan 24, 2010)

Sophie -- Another thing you might want to consider is just renting wherever and whenever you want to go -- the ultimate flexibility for no headaches. For Orlando, renting either a condo or a timeshare is easy and convenient. For other locations, either a vacation home, condo, or timeshare will be available just about anywhere at anytime. Or even a hotel room! 

With a 4 year old, getting places to stay during the school year will become even more important very soon, and soon after that even your summer vacations will be taken up with band camp or sports camp or both! (I'm living that right now -- my summer 2010 isn't locked in due to unknown camp dates and I'm getting nervous about it!)

So you might want to keep your options even more open until you decide what your vacation habits might be when school becomes a bigger part of your life.

And welcome to TUG!!


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## Sophie (Jan 25, 2010)

clsmit said:


> With a 4 year old, getting places to stay during the school year will become even more important very soon, and soon after that even your summer vacations will be taken up with band camp or sports camp or both! (I'm living that right now -- my summer 2010 isn't locked in due to unknown camp dates and I'm getting nervous about it!



Yes, I am worried about the time constraints school is going to put on our vacation planning and budget. I rarely travelled during the summer in the past, due to the higher costs, especially when travelling to Europe to visit my family or going on a cruise.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 25, 2010)

Having just returned from Orlando (for work meeting)  - I do not know why anyone would want to buy a TS there other than for exchanging reasons.  There are 1000s in a very small area - and most it seemed next to some sort of highway.

I stayed at the Marriott Sabal Palms (2Bd nonLO, ~1500sqft) for about $300 per night (rented via Marriott) when I could not get in the Marriott World Center (hotel).  It was nice and recently remodeled, and much better than the hotel next door for about the same price, but tacky.. (as most things in Orlando are).


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## timeos2 (Jan 25, 2010)

*Most Orlando resorts are nice but flawed. Some seriously.*



DavidnRobin said:


> Having just returned from Orlando (for work meeting)  - I do not know why anyone would want to buy a TS there other than for exchanging reasons.  There are 1000s in a very small area - and most it seemed next to some sort of highway.
> 
> I stayed at the Marriott Sabal Palms (2Bd nonLO, ~1500sqft) for about $300 per night (rented via Marriott) when I could not get in the Marriott World Center (hotel).  It was nice and recently remodeled, and much better than the hotel next door for about the same price, but tacky.. (as most things in Orlando are).



Thats why a smaller, sold out, owner controlled resort in a planned community just 1 mile from Downtown Disney appealed to us. It offers the nearly unheard of ability to walk to nearly every store/service you may want on sidewalks (!) - you can literally park the car and walk all week to what you want to do. It is a short drive (10-15min TOPS) to every attraction yet the planned setting offers quite streets, ponds, landscaping - a real neighborhood rather than a strip of development along a highway that requires a car to get to the amenities!  

We bought when it was a vision. It has now matured into a nearly unique timeshare for the Orlando area and has been continuously upgraded to be competitive with newer resorts.  It will never grow, fees are reasonable and we enjoy every trip back. THAT is why you buy in Orlando. I cannot say that for our one purchase we regret - Wastegate - too big, unkempt, tacky (to be kind), poorly managed and more. Same with one we are happy with but don't care for the Orlando locations they have - Wyndham - as they are either TOO large & isolated (BC - overwhelming size but near nothing for services) or have never really been finished as promised and meet the "next to the highway" bugaboo (Cypress Palms, others).  Location and surroundings make the resort and only one has that for us. We are very glad we bought there and it would be the last we'd ever give up.


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## jerseygirl (Jan 25, 2010)

David -- we need to turn you on to getaways.  We stayed at SVR for less than $300 the week before last.  We only stayed 3 of the 7 nights ... went on a Disney cruise for 4 of the nights, and it was nice to leave a bunch of our stuff in the SVR villa as we were on a 4-week marathon vacation and had overpacked just a wee bit!.  Marriott World Center was in our backyard ... our view from the balcony.  Nice, renovated Lakes unit (but I'm still grumpy about the lack of any starter coffee, shampoo and that the bed wasn't even made, let alone changed, during the midweek tidy -- felt sort of motel 6-ish, especially in light of the ridiculous maintenance fee increases).


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 25, 2010)

This was a work-thing - and they paid (not me) and needed to be on-sight at the Marriott World center - Sabal Palms was a 5 minute walk.  I spent the whole time indoors in a conference room at the World Center except to go see Phantom at night (having seen it in London in Sept - I was very disappointed).  I did get to see parts of SVV and some unknown SVR from the freeway...


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## dukebigtom (Jan 27, 2010)

*Rescind?*

I'm probably the odd man out here, but I have expressed this opinion on other boards too.  I really sometimes question our logic in encouraging people to rescind a purchase.  While I am all for buying timeshares on the resale market and saving people money, having people purchase from developers is also key to the future development of the timeshare industry, creating new resorts for us to enjoy and keeping some alive and well.

I also have seen situations where we encourage people to rescind and they find out they are too late and then just feel terrible about how badly they have been ripped off.  

I do share the sentiment with some others that when someone has bought from the developer that we should just welcome them to timesharing, help them understand how to get the most out of what they just purchased and provide them info on how they can expand their portfolio in the future and save money through resales.

There you go - my two cents.  Probably all that it is worth, but when I open the update e-mails and see the celebration of another person rescinding, there is a little piece of me that just doesn't feel good about it because while that person has clearly been helped, the developer has been hurt and in the long run, perhaps so have all of us who love to try new places and see resorts maintained with excellence.

Have a great day!

BigTom


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## dukebigtom (Jan 27, 2010)

*Rescind?*

Sorry, somehow this got posted in the wrong place earlier.  I clicked the "Yet another owner finds TUG in time to research product and rescind!" line in yesterday's Tug Newsletter.

I'm probably the odd man out here, but I have expressed this opinion on other boards too. I really sometimes question our logic in encouraging people to rescind a purchase. While I am all for buying timeshares on the resale market and saving people money, having people purchase from developers is also key to the future development of the timeshare industry, creating new resorts for us to enjoy and keeping some alive and well.

I also have seen situations where we encourage people to rescind and they find out they are too late and then just feel terrible about how badly they have been ripped off. 

I do share the sentiment with some others that when someone has bought from the developer that we should just welcome them to timesharing, help them understand how to get the most out of what they just purchased and provide them info on how they can expand their portfolio in the future and save money through resales.

There you go - my two cents. Probably all that it is worth, but when I open the update e-mails and see the celebration of another person rescinding, there is a little piece of me that just doesn't feel good about it because while that person has clearly been helped, the developer has been hurt and in the long run, perhaps so have all of us who love to try new places and see resorts maintained with excellence.

Have a great day!

BigTom


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## AwayWeGo (Jan 27, 2010)

*Timeshare Companies Are Unnecessary To The Future Of Timesharing.*




dukebigtom said:


> While I am all for buying timeshares on the resale market and saving people money, having people purchase from developers is also key to the future development of the timeshare industry, creating new resorts for us to enjoy and keeping some alive and well.


Shux, all the timeshare companies could vanish this afternoon & there will still be all the timeshare units to buy & sell & stay at & exchange into & rent out & rent into, etc., that we could ever want.  

The presence of the timeshare industry is irrelevant to the existence of nice timeshare resorts for us to enjoy.  

Keeping alive the ones that are already here is up to the elected homeowner associations -- i.e., the representatives of the regular walking-around timeshare owners themselves, once the timeshare companies are out of the picture. 

I agree that it is unkind & unnecessary to rain on the parade of the full-freight timeshare buyers, once the rescission period is past.  For those still in the cooling off period, however, the loudest & clearest & most helpful message is still _Rescinda-Sinda-Sinda -- Get Out Of It While You Can._ 

Buy timeshares resale.  Save thousands of dollars on the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better. 

Nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Captron (Jan 27, 2010)

I think the very small impact of the people that come here and we convince to rescind would be unmeasurable to the large timeshare companies. I also believe that the impact on the individual of getting out and buying resale once educated and informed is likewise unmeasurable - but in the other direction.

I believe the HUGE amount of good we can do for these individuals is worth the MINUSCULE potential damage to the overwhelming and unethical sales machine!

That is why I will repeat my message to whomever asks it.


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## DeniseM (Jan 27, 2010)

dukebigtom - Starwood is very, very expensive and people may be spending $50K - $100K or more for a single week of timeshare and financing it.  There is no way that I can, in good conscience, with hold info. about rescinding, when they can buy resale and save 50-90%.

As far as maintaining the resorts - Starwood raises the maintenance fees on the Avg. of about 10% a year, so I am not the least concerned about that.


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