# "Aruba Ocean Club Owners, Sign up for a letter to Marriott on Maintenance Fees"



## lovearuba (Nov 8, 2008)

Greetings to all Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners:

I am drafting a letter which I would like to get out by the end of the week.  The purpose is to let Marriott know that we the owners of the Ocean club are upset with the staggering increases in maintenance fees on top of the significant special assessment fees that are being proposed beginning in 2009.

The goal of the letter will be to get a response from Marriott.  We are hoping to find out that Marriott takes our concerns serious.  We are concerned that our President was removed from his position and that no one has told us why?  We are not sure that the current board is looking after our best interest and want to hear what their plan is to resolve our concerns.  The letter will go to the board first because they are representing us.  We will cc Marriott.  If we do not get a satisfactory answer from them, we will move to replace them and work directly with Marriott.  

We also want to understand why we are paying for some of the repair costs that may have been the result of a faulty building (leaking throughout the building).  We want to reduce those expenses. We dont want to be paying for something that was not up to Marriott standards to start with. We dont believe our maintenace fees should be higher than the surf club especially since we are getting hit with those special assessments.  We need to put together our heads and find creative ways to reduce the expenses.

If you have not already sent me your email and want your name on this letter please send me a private letter.  

I will post here if we get a response to the letter and I will request the board to post the response to the ocean club website.  Thanks to all who have responded.  Marsue, I am hoping you will sign the letter.

 

Thanks


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## marksue (Nov 8, 2008)

I am with you on this.  There are many others I know who are intersted and I will forward their email addresses to you.

Lets keep things moving forward.


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## marksue (Nov 8, 2008)

[_Edited to delete comment regarding moderating, which is not permitted. Please take comments offline._ Dave M, BBS Moderator]


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## lovearuba (Nov 8, 2008)

*Original Thread and Response to this one*

Hi
I didnt close the original thread just opened a new one to keep this one simple, sorry if that offends anyone.

We have approximately 40 people that have already signed up, its a weekend so I expect the number to grow.  

When the letter is drafted I will send an advance copy out to the names I have and if people no longer want to be included I will remove their names.  This way people get to ensure they are being represented appropriately and that they feel the letter sets the right tone.  Thanks all.


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## marksue (Nov 8, 2008)

THat is great you have that many.  I forwarded a few more emails to you this morning.

As i get them I wills end them

I am going to put togheter all the people onthe website who are renting units and get thier emails together 4 u


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## Steel5Rings (Nov 8, 2008)

All fine and good, but why are you sending it to Marriott?......This is an issue that you need to take up with your Board of Directors, they set the annual budget for the resort.


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## marksue (Nov 8, 2008)

If you knew what was going on at the OCean club you would understand. Go to this link and read through the posts.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82564


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## gmarine (Nov 8, 2008)

An FYI for those who expect a good outcome. Several years ago owners at the Renaissance Aruba had an issue with special assessments and a few other things. We gathered emails over several months and in total over 2,000 owners took part in letter to management. We also attended meetings, made phone calls,wrote individual letters/emails etc and it ended up doing nothing. 

I wish you luck but I think your going to need several thousand owners to get involved to even have a shot at getting something out of this.


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## timeos2 (Nov 8, 2008)

*Fight the good fight and be ready to hang in there*



gmarine said:


> An FYI for those who expect a good outcome. Several years ago owners at the Renaissance Aruba had an issue with special assessments and a few other things. We gathered emails over several months and in total over 2,000 owners took part in letter to management. We also attended meetings, made phone calls,wrote individual letters/emails etc and it ended up doing nothing.
> 
> I wish you luck but I think your going to need several thousand owners to get involved to even have a shot at getting something out of this.



I applaud Marksue for the effort and wish that group luck in what is likely to be a heck of a battle should they actually carry through.  The items they are complaining about are troublesome and it sounds all too familiar that a Board is under the thumb of management rather than representing the owners as they should. 

The only area I see that is likely to fail or possibly end up costing money rather than saving is the issue with the roof(s).  Since it is now 10 years old Marriott is most likely being quite fair in offering 44% (or whatever that number was) toward repairs/replacement. The opportunity to get 100% or even anything close would have been back when the resort was accepted and/or when the Board took over as the official managing entity with Marriott as their hired managers.  As both of those occurred many years ago the time to claim unacceptable workmanship most likely passed many years ago as well. If that idea gets pressed too hard Marriott might withdraw all offers of payment and the owners would end up paying 100% of the cost. There are a number of examples of that occurring at resorts so I'd tread very carefully in making demands on the roof replacement issue. Other than that do to it & good luck!


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## Bob B (Nov 8, 2008)

Agree, I just sent you a PM with our names to add.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 8, 2008)

*The Roof Over Our Head.*




timeos2 said:


> The only area I see that is likely to fail or possibly end up costing money rather than saving is the issue with the roof(s).  Since it is now 10 years old Marriott is most likely being quite fair in offering 44% (or whatever that number was) toward repairs/replacement. The opportunity to get 100% or even anything close would have been back when the resort was accepted and/or when the Board took over as the official managing entity with Marriott as their hired managers.  As both of those occurred many years ago the time to claim unacceptable workmanship most likely passed many years ago as well. If that idea gets pressed too hard Marriott might withdraw all offers of payment and the owners would end up paying 100% of the cost. There are a number of examples of that occurring at resorts so I'd tread very carefully in making demands on the roof replacement issue. Other than that do to it & good luck!


What is it about roofs ? 

Not just timeshare roofs, I mean, but regular suburban house roofs & museum-quality architectural landmark roofs & I don't know what-all kinds of roofs.  

Hard-core TUG-BBS folks already know about the Cypress Pointe timeshare roof issues that _timeos2_ & his HOA-BOD colleagues were able to resolve via bank financing without triggering disastrous special assessments. 

Architecture buffs are no doubt familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright's notoriously leaky roofs.  Apparently his buildings just had to be, like, you know, _architectural_.  They didn't have to be rainproof.  I have heard (& I can believe it) that there is 1 construction company out there whose main professional speciality is repairing & re-doing the roofs on various Frank Lloyd Wright landmark buildings. 

The main headquarters building of the U.S. Department Of The Interior, where I worked 1964-1998 in various civil service jobs, never did get the all roof leaks under control.  I couldn't understand why roof leaks up top of a 7-floor institutional mausoleum-style stone edifice caused drippy ceilings in some of the 2nd floor offices -- had to do with bad flashing on some of the exterior balconies & overhangs, etc., I was told. 

The main terminal building of Dulles International Airport was fraught with roof leaks for a long time.  I won't swear to it, but they may finally have taken care of those, possibly as part of the big main terminal expansion project a few years back. 

And even in this nice suburban house where The Chief Of Staff have lived since 1985 or so, the roof started letting the rainwater in way too soon.   We got estimates from 3 large & 3 smallish roofing companies.  All were roughly equivalent.  We went with 1 of the small outfits for a complete roof replacement job a couple years back.  All the job estimators -- every 1 -- said the same thing*:* _You Have 2 Problems.  No. 1, The Shingles Are About Worn Out.  No. 2, The Original Roof Wasn't Done Right In The 1st Place._ 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## concernedowner (Nov 9, 2008)

*What is it about roofs?*

:annoyed: :annoyed: 
The answer is poor workmansthip and lack of accountability.   Who is in charge of this - the owners don't want to spend close to a million dollars to have similar problems.


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## lovearuba (Nov 10, 2008)

*Concerned Owner*

The more owners that sign up the louder our message will be.  We are also looking into how to officially get the names of all owners.  Most of them are in for a really bad day when they get their maintenance bills. 

Imagine already knowing you are going to get hit with a huge assessment fee and lo and behold you look at your bill and rather than a total bill of $1800 (1100 maintenance and 700 special assessment) you actually are getting a bill for $2300 (1600 maintenace and 700 special assessment).  Marriotts phones will be ringing because most people will think its a mistake.  Most people will also be in the midst of paying for Christmas gifts and unfortunately a lot of them may be out of work because of the poor economy.  Some of these folks will already be trying to sell but the market is so bad, they will be having trouble.  They are not going to understand the excuses we've heard on this one.  They will wonder what the point is of having a board that is supposed to be representing them?  They will wonder where Allan is?  I still wonder!!

I dont think many will just write the check on this one.  Marriott should just settle this before they lose their appeal to most of these owners.  Approximately 9000 owners will be really pissed off.  Word of mouth is going to hurt Marriott on this one.  Its also going to prevent people that are buying resale to even consider it knowing what happened to the ocean club owners because we are going to keep reminding them.  They will be reminded everytime these 9000 people go to Aruba and stay at the timeshare and see a new couple asking about the place.  They are going to be reminded when they ask us if we regret buying a timeshare.  People ask me that question all the time.  I've taken my sister and friends to presentations.  I referred my husband's boss and she bought two weeks (thank goodness not in Aruba)

This year is the first time I have a different answer for them.  A very sad answer.

I dont know about you but I've lived in my house for 17 years and my original roof is still on. I live in the Northeast and did have to replace the ridgevent because of a huge rain storm.  We have had significant rain here but my windows havent leaked and I didnt have to put buckets in the hallways to catch the rain.  I saw that in Aruba.  My insurance covered the expense.  Aruba does not get much rain, lets face it, its one happy island.  No beep of the angry horn.   I bought my timeshare in 2002 and its only 6 years later.  No excuse for this one.  

By the way has anyone heard from the board.  I would love to know what address to send the letter to. I want to know if they are still trying to negotiate a settlement on our behalf.  We have a lot of questions for them and I am hoping they are preparing their answers.

Have a dry day.


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## luvmypt (Nov 10, 2008)

We own a 1 bedroom and a 2 bedroom and I can tell you right now we are not happy campers. We were aware of the assessments for 2009 and 2010 but not about the huge increase in maintenance fees. According to the figures, we have to now come up with an additional $756 by January. At what point in time was Marriott going to officially let us know about the increase and, with this economic meltdown, how did they expect some of us to pay it?


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## judys19058 (Nov 10, 2008)

I am a little late on this thread.  I know about the problems and the special accessments, but I am not aware that the President was removed from the Board.  Are you refering to Al Cohen?  I have always thought he was doing a great job.


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## lovearuba (Nov 11, 2008)

*Owners meeting*

Hi
I was not in Aruba for the owners meeting but others were and it was obvious that Allan is no longer president but no one has officially told us why.  His name is no longer on the ocean club website as president but it does show him as a board member.  What I've heard is that the meeting was pretty awful and owners were outraged.  I also heard, although again I wasnt there but I heard that the person that represents us for Finance would not allow owners to speak.  This is very disturbing since that board is representing us and we are entitled to any information they have.  The board has been silent, other than posting a note on this website and on the ocean claiming that a lawsuit was a rumor.  

We are hoping to get them to answer our questions via this letter and if they dont we may have to seek other avenues to get issues addressed.  We also feel strongly that they need to work for us and get some concessions from Marriott.  I hope this helps.


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## marksue (Nov 11, 2008)

Judy,

I was at the owners meeting and it was not a positive meeting.  At the beginning Allan announced that he was no longer going to be president.  Supposedly it was a planned event, but I believe the board and Marriott forced him out as president.  It was also announced the Frank Knox was taking over as president but of course, “he had to leave”.  I believe he did not want to face the owners, and his lack of any announcement proves my belief.

The meeting started out with a review of the issues we are facing, the defective roof that has to be replaced, and the upcoming renovations.  We were also told about the new maintenance fee and assessment. Discussion on these were put off until Melissa the finance person would speak.
When the meeting was turned over to Melissa everything really started going down hill.  Melissa started talking about what Marriott has done for the other TS she is president.  All she could do was rave about Marriott.  She was not an owner proponent.  When she was questioned on items she would not answer the questions and would then defer to Dirk, from Marriott.  Dirk was the most arrogant of all the speakers.  When someone complained about the costs and the fact that the roof was below par, his comment was maybe you should just sell.  What a looser he is.

Marriott is giving some money, but no where near the amount they should for the $$$ we the owners have spent over the years to repair the place after all the leaks and floods.

For more information go to the Marriott ripping off Ocean club owners.  There is a lot of info posted their.


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## lovearuba (Nov 12, 2008)

*why would I have to pay for this*

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85086

This link shows how low people are paying to use our timeshares, peanuts.  I would assume Marriott gave these to interval or they somehow had extra inventory for these periods.    I am sorry if you cant see the link but it shows some our our surf and ocean club units being sold as getaways for next to nothing.

Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club: November 21st through November 28th, 1 bedroom for $349.00: a two bedroom for the same week is $439.00


Although as Dave Points out if you are not a member of tug you would not see this under distressed but anyone who has an interval account can get it as a getaway.  I for one think this stinks.  I paid $1100 for maintenance last year and these units are being given away.


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## Dave M (Nov 12, 2008)

Your post will not make any sense for those (such as marksue) who are designated as a "Guest" rather than as a "Tug Member". Guests will not be able to access your linked thread, as it's from a members-only forum.


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## marksue (Nov 12, 2008)

Dave,

I joined over the weekend but for some reason I can not get to the site.  I got a reciept from Tug on my membership.

Ok i got it to work


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## thinze3 (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't see anything worth talking about on that list. November and Decmber are lows seasons throughout the timeshare industry. Add that to very high air fares and I would expect there to be a few getaways or extra weeks during these times.

One June studio?? Big deal. Neither Marriott, nor II nor the HOA has done anything wrong here IMO.

Terry


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## oiram56 (Nov 12, 2008)

I have valuable information and extensive well documented proof regarding the existence of very toxic extremely poluted environment and many undesclosed information in connection with construction fraud at the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club.If you are interested let me know and I will give you my e mail address and telephone number.


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## Dave M (Nov 13, 2008)

It's possible, based on info in the profile for the poster of the immediately above post, that is commercial in nature. Thus, any contact info should be communicated behind the scene and should not be posted here.


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## lovearuba (Nov 13, 2008)

*thinze*

Hi
I appreciate your thought on this but I dont think we should ever allow these units to rent for this low.  I would prefer to see Marriott allow people to use rewards point for those.  I am thinking the new marriott exchange process might help with this type of situation.  Thats my opinion.


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## JimC (Nov 13, 2008)

lovearuba said:


> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85086
> 
> This link shows how low people are paying to use our timeshares, peanuts.  I would assume Marriott gave these to interval or they somehow had extra inventory for these periods.    I am sorry if you cant see the link but it shows some our our surf and ocean club units being sold as getaways for next to nothing.



That is why I sold.  The market determines the price -- its simple supply vs demand for each season.  It is possible for the market at AOC to change more in favor of the owner in the future.


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## gmarine (Nov 13, 2008)

These Getaway deals are likely weeks that would otherwise go empty. 

The resort also gets guests who currently own a timeshare and may be more likely to purchase another week.


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## marksue (Nov 14, 2008)

Did everyone get a copy of Frank's lame letter? Let me know if you didn't get it.


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## lovearuba (Nov 15, 2008)

*thanks for posting*

Marksue, thanks for posting to your thread.  My prediction is that this is an indication on what Marriott will do with all their other resorts over the next couple of years.  Marriott is no longer making lots of money selling timeshares so they are looking to us to continue to fill their pockets.


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## marksue (Nov 16, 2008)

Lovearuba, its a pleasure.  how are things coming along with your letter.  It is amazing that Marriott has yet to tell OC owners what thier mf are.  Other Marriott TS's already have thier notices.


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## JimC (Nov 16, 2008)

marksue said:


> Lovearuba, its a pleasure.  hwo are thigns coming along with your letter.  It is amazing that Marriott has yet to tell OC owners what thier mf are.  Other Marriott TS's already have thier notices.



Does Marriott have a schedule for releasing annual fee statements?  Does the resort control this in any way?  I seem to get each at different times each year.  I have Shadow Ridge and Cypress Harbour, but am waiting for Canyon Villas.


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## lovearuba (Nov 16, 2008)

*Marksue*

Hi
We have at least 60 email addresses, many folks have multiple weeks.  Some folks are worried that no matter what you do it wouldnt help, they dont think that Marriott cares and would only do it if they are forced to legally.  I would like to believe that they will step up to the place and take responsibility for the damage caused by the defective roof.  They could save face by just throwing in additional money to fix it and call it something else. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for keeping in touch.


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## tlwmkw (Nov 16, 2008)

*I own at Surfwatch and Grande Vista and haven't gotten MF's yet..*

Has anyone else gotten them yet?  You've got me worried now that I haven't received them yet.  Does anyone else own at these resorts and did you get your MF notices yet?

Thanks, tlwmkw


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## lovearuba (Nov 17, 2008)

*update*

Hi
No, I didnt get the maintenance fees yet but did receive a letter from Allan on the situation.  He pretty much states the same concerns we had here.


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## lovearuba (Nov 17, 2008)

*Allans letter to owners*

To:       Aruba Ocean Club Owners
From:  Allan S. Cohen,  Past President Aruba Ocean Club
Date:   November 15, 2008

Dear Owners:

I have been receiving many calls and emails from owners as well as reading the Timeshare User Group web site www.Tug2.com, inquiring about my status as President of the Association and the actions taken at the October 28-29, 2008 Board and Annual meeting. I wish to explain the actions taken. 

Our Bylaws allow the election of Officers of the Board at any time by a simple majority of the five member Board.  At the Board meeting on October 28, 2008, the Board voted to elect Frank Knox,  President.  Although this action prevented me from conducting the Board and Annual Meeting, I was given an opportunity to make a farewell address.  

I am sending this email to every owner that has contacted me directly as an update on my status, the status of the Association, and work that needs to be done.

During my tenure as your President,  I always worked in your best interest and felt that working together thru open communications is the best way to a successful solution.  I attribute that to the many  successes in the past making the Aruba Ocean Club, your desired vacation home and one of the Marriott's most desirable Resorts.

Going forward we are faced with many questions regarding major repairs to our Building and increased Maintenance fees and an Assessment.  I would not want to do anything that would hamper a positive resolution between our Association and Marriott,  but want to set the record clear as Owners continue to raise question about the condition of our Building and the costs that they have incurred.  Owners want and deserve full disclosure and positive actions taken to resolve these issues.  

Addressing the condition of our Building and Lost Revenues has been key focal points of mine.     

As a continuing Board member, I still have your interests at heart.  For that reason, I want to share with you some of the more important financial and facility concerns facing you as owners going forward.  


1. Our roof is being replaced at a cost of $1.7 million and Marriott Management has offered to pay 43% of that amount.  This was determined by the fact that Management had not disclosed that the roof had been on the building at least five years prior to selling it. 

2. Additional efforts to solve the flooding problems on the rear Managers patio, lobby and back office are needed.  The Boards outside independent consultant should be used for oversight and approval of all major building issues.  The final costs are to be determined.  The damage caused by Hurricane Omar is estimated is estimated at over $200,000 and is not covered by insurance (our deductible is too high) over 120 of our rooms had water damage, the Surf club had no damage and the Hotel had very minor.  The findings after the storm was that our entire exterior skin needs to be tightened (recaulked) ASAP and is estimated to cost over $750,000.  

3. We have 1272 window panes - Management under a Mfg warranty has replaced 465 at no cost to us. We need assurance that Marriott Management will continue to replace all failed old windows in future years since the Mfg warranty will expire this year?   The Association at a cost of $64,000 replaced the front atrium windows a few years ago.  They have just recently been repaired and tested to insure no further leaks.  We had been told at the time of failure that no warranty could be found.   

4. Marriott Management has agreed to replace our incorrect opening safes when the Surf Club key safes are replaced with digital ones.

5. Lobby vendors & Marriott Sales desks - On 4/13/07 Marriott Management informed the Board that income derived from outside vendors desk rental in AOC lobby had been incorrectly applied to the Management company.  Funds were reimbursed for the two outside vendors.  But, Marriott's legal opinion and ours differ on the contract relating to Marriott' Sales desks.   No where in this agreement does it state that Sales has the right to have desks - the definition of "access for marketing and sales" would have to be determined and the use of four workspace areas or any might be considered unreasonable.  Especially since we have been sold out for many years and Sales are selling another property.  Since, Sales currently pays for Sales desks/space all over the Island (downtown streets,airport, hotels, etc) it does not seem unreasonable to have them compensate the Association for past and future use of desks at the Ocean Club.  

At a rate of $2000 to $7000 per month per desk paid by current vendors for lobby space - you can see how this would add to our bottom line in the future and for the past 9 years. Marriott has offered again as a good will gesture the sum of $500 per month (not rent) for the use of one desk going forward with no recovery of past due amounts.  

Marriott's response has been that the lobby sales desks continue to serve our owners and  "MVCI Sales has helped owners resell over 252 weeks in 2006 and over 376 weeks in 2007".  The Resale's of our villa with Marriott's 40% commission rate has generated Millions of dollars worth of revenue for Marriott and should not be a reason not to pay for current and past use of lobby space to the Association.  In addition, per our management contract Marriott receives 10% of all income we receive.  

6.  Repair and Maintenance costs - Our Repair and Maintenance Expense has increased significantly over the past 9 years.  We must insure that all work done in our building is of the highest quality and the Boards independent consultant review and approve all major work.     

Our number 1 priority is to make sure that we have a First Class Building and an Association with a solid financial reserve.

So far, Management has waived their 10% management fee on the roof project as well as on the upcoming $14 million dollar assessment.  Also Management has agreed to assist us in providing the Association with a monetary float to cover us so that the refurbishment is not delayed. 

You can see that we still have ongoing issues to resolve which require high expenditures.  The  two year assessment that I discussed with you over the past two years and support was approved for 2009.  This will provide you with a new villa by 2010. 

The 2009 Maintenance fees which I did not support was set at the annual meeting.  You should be receiving a statement from your new President explaining both of these.

I urge you to let Frank Knox, your new President know your concerns, if any and offer to work with him as these issues proceed to a resolution.   

Finding a fair resolution may not be an easy task.  But, we all purchased because of the name Marriott on the building.  It is my hope that with owners support and belief in the Marriott name, we can resolve these issues in a fair and equitable way.    

Thank you for your kindness in the past and although I am only one voice on your Board, I will continue to make your views heard.  

After 36 years, my family and I look forward to enjoying many more years with our first grandchild - 6 month old Aubrey who joined us in October, at the Aruba Ocean Club.      

I consider myself honored to have made so many friends over the past few years and want to stay in contact.  My contact information will always be available to you. 

Sincerely,

Allan

Allan S. Cohen
9613 Eldwick Way
Potomac, Maryland 20854
e-mail: C20854@aol.com
301-299-2118
240-462-5000 cell
301-299-4835 fax


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## jadefalcon (Nov 17, 2008)

marksue said:


> Did everyone get a copy of Frank's lame letter? Let me know if you didn't get it.



Yes I got the letter but nothing yet on the new MF.  Does anyone have any idea of what it will be?


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## lll1929 (Nov 17, 2008)

I thank Allen for taking the time to write the owners.  

Frank, on the other hand, is a different story.  He has sent one vague letter to us, but has not introduced himself, provided contact info, etc.  He is skating around the Maint and assessment fees, which he wants paid in Jan 09.  He should know that this is not the time to withhold information such as this, especially with the economy the way it is.

I really wonder what's going to happen if owners don't pay the fees.  I assume our 2010 fees would then be increased even more.  

I contacted my MVCI representative and asked her how to contact the president and she directed me back to Allen, stating he should be able to answer my questions for the next month.  

I usually don't get irritated, but this is starting to really IRRITATE me.  If they want my money, they would want to hurry up and let me know the fees.

Sorry for venting!!


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## hydroman (Nov 17, 2008)

*Is it just Marriott, seem Board is ripping us off too!*

Maybe Allan didn't include in his e mail that the maintenance fees are going up 30% along with the the assessments, which I believe are actually higher than  he informed us they would be in his earlier President letters.

Are we actually going to pay the highest maintenance fees in the whole Marriott system?  I know I heard the story about being in the Caribbean and high related costs.  How about other timeshares in Aruba and throughout the Caribbean, has the Board reported what their maintenance fees are?   I don't remember the Board telling us how our fees compare to other Vacation Clubs.  Is it really necessary to redo the apartments after they were refurbished only three years ago?  I for one like what we have and we could have waited a couple of years to do this--I think Marriott's normal cycle is refurbishments no sooner than every five years.  So its our Board not just Marriott that is costing us money!

I can't even imagine how many owners cannot afford such insane additional costs???????  What will the Board do if many, many owners just don't pay.  We'll get stuck again.  Did someone forget we're in a recession??????  Maybe the Board should reconsider!

And what if we tried to sell our units now?  Once word of these high fees comes out, our values will plummet.  

And what assurance do we have that we won't get hit with higher maintenance fees and assessments in the future?  If past Boards couldn't or didn't control costs, what's the probability that this Board or future Boards will.  Maybe we need something passed that guarantees a percentage maximum increase, like 3 %, and then Management and Board will have to make adjustments to stay within budget.  

And let us not forget Marriott in all this.  They bought an old building and apparently minimally fixed it up on the outside, made it beautiful in the inside, for its day, and now we're stuck with having to fix up what they misled us about.  We all thought we were buying a Marriott qualitly building, boy were we sold a bill of goods.  What are they doing to help us out and to keep from tarnishing their reputation?  Token  money here and there compared to the actual costs.  They should cover the whole thing where it concerns inadequaciesy in the building.

I was there during the meeting week, my son-in-law went to the meeting.  It was very long and everyone was unhappy.  I guarantee you that it will be the talk of the entire next two years for any of us that visit OUR timeshare.  Again,  Board, listen up-do something to fix this problem you helped to create before you have a revolt!


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## nanceetom (Nov 17, 2008)

*Aruba Ocean Club*

How do we become part of the letter to Marriott?


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## luvmypt (Nov 17, 2008)

nanceetom said:


> How do we become part of the letter to Marriott?



PM *lovearuba* with your name and email address. This comes from the first post in this thread from *lovearuba*.


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## lovearuba (Nov 19, 2008)

*letter tomorrow*

Hi
I was having reservations about sending out the letter feeling that Marriott would do nothing but file it.  I have made a commitment here to do it and my plans are to send it out either later tonight or tomorrow.

The letter will be sent to owners.  I am asking that the owners read it, adjust it if they need to and send it under their email address to the president of the ocean club board.  This way he will be getting numerous emails from owners.  I ask that you cc me on the letter so I can keep track of how many letters were sent.

The letter addresses all of my concerns and is very direct, some folks may want to use their own tone and thats fine, these should represent you.  If you want to send a separate one I encourage you to do that as well.  Have a great day


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## vincenzi (Nov 19, 2008)

*We Must Not Be Passive*

Thank you Lovearuba and Marksue for addressing this crucial issue with Marriott.  Without your intervention, many owners would not have known the reason why the projected fees and assessment are so exorbitant.  If we remain passive and do nothing, then we will be forced into paying for more than we bargained for when we purchased our timeshare.  It is not fair and reasonable that the owners should have to repair a building that was defective when Marriott purchased it.  How many of us would have purchased at the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club if we had known this information? Zero!  It was my understanding that part of our fees were to be used to refurbish our building from time to time. We purchased from Marriott because of the Marriott's name.  Marriott, stand up to your honest and ethical reputation. Do the right thing.  Also, I want to thank Allan for doing such a great job representing us when you were President of the Board. Apparently, with the new Board...it is a new day for owners.  And, unfortunately it appears to be dark and dreary!


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## ilene13 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Ocean Club assessments and maintenance*

Thank you to allan and love Aruba.  If everyone remembers we were told that the assessments would be billed in June 09 and 10.  That is more palatable than in Jan with the maintenance.  We own 7 wks of TS. 3 at the Ocean club-1 bedrooms I do not look forward to a $4500 bill in Jan.  Also we have not been billed yet for our week in Hilton Head at Marriott's Surfwatch and I have a 3 bedroom unit there.


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## lovearuba (Nov 20, 2008)

*you are welcome*

Hi 
The letter is out, if I missed you and you want it please send your email address in a private message.  Thanks


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## ilene13 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Letter*



lovearuba said:


> Hi
> The letter is out, if I missed you and you want it please send your email address in a private message.  Thanks



I did receive your letter.  I think I'll fax it to Frank and email it.  I am furious about what is due in January.  I got my surfwatch maintenance bill today.  It is a 3 bedroom, 3 bath unit platinum season.  The 09 maintenance is 1100.  How
can my 1 bedroom units be almost the same in maintenance fees?
ilene


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## marksue (Nov 20, 2008)

Please send me your name, emaiil address and the number of untis you own.  I am in the process of collecting 1100 units so we can call a special meeting and recall the board.


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## ilene13 (Nov 20, 2008)

*email*

I did send you a private email with all the required info.
ilene


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## lovearuba (Nov 21, 2008)

*Letter is receiving positive responses*

Hi
With the exception of a few folks identifying typos in my original letter (really sorry for that, especially calling Frank Knox, Fred), responses have been very positive.  

Some folks have forwarded the letter along as it was written.  Others have personalized it before submitting.  I am happy to see this, it allows the board to hear from you personally.  For those that have submitted the letter, I have requested notification that it was submitted and requested that they let me know how many weeks and what size units they own.  This was very very important in the event we need to contact you again.

Marksue is working on getting another meeting to remove the current board.  If we dont get an adequate response to our letter to the board I support this effort.  Marksue is currently collecting that information.  You need to let him know if he should add you to that list.  He has a separate thread here on tug.

Have a great day and thanks for the support.  We really need change and I do believe Marriott will come through for us.  They know its the right thing to do and I trust they will do it. They just need to hear from you, please let them hear from you. .


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## nanceetom (Nov 21, 2008)

*Aruba Ocean Club own worried*

How can I get to someone to be part of the group's concern??


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## vincenzi (Nov 21, 2008)

*Contact Mark*

Here is another post with the information you are requesting. 



marksue said:


> Please send me you email address in a PM.  We are in the process of getting 1100 weeks of ownership so that we can call a special meeting to recall the board.  In your private message to me please let me know how many weeks you own, your name and email address.
> 
> THank you
> 
> Mark


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## lovearuba (Nov 21, 2008)

*your inquiry*

Are you asking for a copy of the letter to consider sending?  I can forward if you send me your email. I am going to be out of town for a couple of days so will send it when I return.  Have a great day


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## nyreguy (Dec 9, 2008)

*Where's the money?*

As a commercial real estate property manager what also troubles me is the free space that Marriott occupies in the Ocean Club, e.g. sales office, Pavilion Bar, and all stores in the lobby. Marriott has the right to those spaces in perpetuity for $0 in rent to us. Just imagine how much lower our maintenance fees would be if the rent that Marriott collects goes to us?

In the meantime, we pay the cost of lighting and cooling those spaces but get nothing in return. We should be receiving a fair rent from the merchants as well as Marriott for the spaces that they occupy.

Marriott should be embarassed as to how much money they made in the development of the Ocean Club. Do the math. 213 units x 52 weeks x $20,000 average price = over $200,000,000. And for this they can't pay rent for use of our building?

I think that it is time for these shenanigans to be made public. Can anyone get these facts out to the travel industry press?


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## lovearuba (Dec 9, 2008)

*this thread*

Hi 
This thread was opened to try to work with the board and Marriott to get a response.  I received emails from many member and they sent letters to Frank. No response was given.  At this point I am supporting Marksue in getting the news out and think that complaints to better business. federal trade commission and your local news advocate groups will keep the heat on Marriott to step up to the plate.  I personally am very interested in a class action suit.  I know lots of folks only believe the money goes to the lawyers but I have been involved in some and that is not my experience.  Before Eric writes about how I sue everyone, I've never sued anyone. I've only benefited from class action suits and happened to have purchased the products involved.  

The most important thing about a suit is that it forces the defendent to change their business practices.  Marriott needs to change theirs.  So my advise to all owners that want a voice on this is to keep Marksues thread alive and reach out and let every consumer rights group you know how unfairly Marriott is treating you and how deceptive their business practices are.


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## timeos2 (Dec 9, 2008)

*They wrote the book and it can be tough to undo*



nyreguy said:


> As a commercial real estate property manager what also troubles me is the free space that Marriott occupies in the Ocean Club, e.g. sales office, Pavilion Bar, and all stores in the lobby. Marriott has the right to those spaces in perpetuity for $0 in rent to us. Just imagine how much lower our maintenance fees would be if the rent that Marriott collects goes to us?
> 
> In the meantime, we pay the cost of lighting and cooling those spaces but get nothing in return. We should be receiving a fair rent from the merchants as well as Marriott for the spaces that they occupy.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately this is a very common practice at far too many resorts. It takes a really strong HOA Board - and maybe a bit of luck - to dislodge a developer sales operation or get them to pay their fair value for the space as they wrote the very documents that give them the rights.  And they will fight tooth and nail to hang on to those rights.  Not a good thing for the owners or the resort.


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## gator236 (Dec 10, 2008)

Actually, as I understand it Marriott pays for those spaces beacause they pay maintenance fees tied to teh commercial space.  The latest board letter pegs that at something like 12% of the total budget is paid by Marriott for those spaces.


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## nyreguy (Dec 11, 2008)

In the real estate business, the "tenant" pays both a rent and their share of the common maintenance charges. In this case, Marriott is only paying their maintenance charges (which I wouldn't mind seeing how those are calculated), but not rent.

What are maintenance charges? Typically, they are the costs of cooling, lighting, cleaning of public areas, insurance, maintenance, etc. If this was a shopping mall it would also include parking lot maintenance, snow removal, roof repairs, etc.

Assuming that the maintenance charges are being calculated fairly, which is always a controversial item between landlords and tenants, that's fine. But what about rent for use of the spaces? Think of the lobby stores and restaurants (Champions). Marriott collects rent from those tenants for the use of OUR building. Then add in the spaces that Marriott itself occupies and does business, i.e. the snack bar/ice cream space, Pavilion Bar and Grill by the pool. They are doing business, generating revenues for themselves but not paying rent to the landlord which is us, not them.

In my 40 years in this business this ranks as one of the best real estate deals (for Marriott) that I have ever seen and one of the worst real estate deals (for US) that I have ever seen. 

How can I make a deal like this?

If you would like further information, please contact me at nyreguy@gmail.com.


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## marksue (Dec 11, 2008)

Marriott does pay 12%.  The issue though is the fair value they pay the Ocean CLub for putting sales desks in the Ocean Club.  For the longest time, they have not paid anything to the OCean Club for the sales desks, even though they are jsut selling the Surf Club.  Only recently have they agreed to pay for 1 desk at a below fair market value.

THis is another one of these practices where Marriott is ramming it down the owners throat by saying this is what we will pay and too bad.  THey refuse to pay us for back rent for the desk space.


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## Dave M (Dec 11, 2008)

Ramming it down the owners' throats?

As Eric has suggested in the other thread, you should carefully read the CC&Rs before you commit to buying at a resort. Had you done so, you would have found that Marriott was entitled to that space without paying rent. If that didn't sit well, you shouldn't have purchased. If you didn't bother to read that provision, you have no basis for a complaint about the practice, which has been written into the CC&Rs for every new MVCI resort at least since 1992.


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## marksue (Dec 11, 2008)

I disagree with you.  That is why the board has been negotiating with Marriott for fair compensation and it has been a point of contention between the board and Marriott.  In fact that was one of the items the board was considering in their filing for a class action against Marriott.

Here is the verbiage directly from the board announcement.

(iii) S&M Desks in the AOC Lobby: The Coop is entitled to 
receive a monetary consideration for the past, current and future 
installation and operations of the numerous S&M Desks operated by the 
Marriott Affiliated Parties, such without prejudice to the right of the 
Coop to exercise its right to terminate, in whole or in part, as the 
case may be, the installation and operations of such S&M Desks in the

(iv) Lobby Desk Space Rentals: The Coop is entitled to all 
income derived from the grant by the Marriott Affiliated Parties of 
concessions and licenses to persons or entities to provide facilities 
and services to and within the AOC;


SO i stand by my comment that Marriott is ramming it down the owners throat.


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## Dave M (Dec 11, 2008)

Please read my post more carefully and how it relates to your previous post. Marriott was entitled to free space for sales and administrative functions. See the CC&Rs for that language. When that "free rent" stops is a matter for negotiation between Marriott and the Board, just as it is at other Marriott resorts. Does Marriott hold the upper hand? Sure it does. But the CC&Rs give it that upper hand. You should read them.


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