# [ 2013 ] Timeshare or Fractional Quarter-share?



## rhymeskate

I am researching buying into a timeshare or Fractional quarter share, but not sure it make sense given some possible limiting factors / preferences we have.

Here is our situation:

We would prefer to go on weekends / long weekends vs. weeks at a time as I have very limited vacation time.

We are a family of 4, 2 adults, 2 kids.

Would like one that is 5-10 minutes away from a ski resort and golf course within a couple hours drive (we live in Eastern Mass)

Well maintained/modern properties (not old tired 1980's look and feel, Would like a Nice pool, kids activities / entertainment, etc.), I guess 4 stars or higher.

So far I have not found any timeshares that meet our criteria other than a very nice fractional / quarter share studio at Okemo Mountain in Vermont, at their Jackson Gore building with a loft that offers 13 weeks a year, that is listed at $49,9. 

http://www.okemo.com/jgrealestate/residence_detail.aspx?detail=168


As more background info, we already tag along with the in-laws that own DVC, and every other year they take us for a week to WDW, so there isn't a huge need to go away for long periods of time other than that.

Do you think it would make sense to buy the fractional at Okemo that, being generous, we would probably only be available to use 14 - 15 weekends at most a year?  Should we assume the studio would be available these 14-15 weeks?

I'm not sure how easy it is to sell fractional time or if Okemo is even on the point system. (I think they are part of RCI, so I assume there must be some sort of point conversion) 

IF they do use points is it difficult to convert points to visit a timeshare resorts a challenge or even worth it if we do decide to go somewhere else for a week every few years?


We have friends that own a traditional Timeshare with Marriott and all their locations seems very nice, but none are in the northeast near a ski resort.

I am really confused, do you have any other thoughs, ideas or corrections to my thinking?

Thanks!


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## vacationhopeful

Welcome to TUG! 

One question you should look at is: What would a nice condo cost to rent on a ski weekend?

And have you looked at Smuggs, NH? Wyndham took over some inventory there, but there are several types of ownerships. Be careful and make sure, if you buy resale, some of the rules/priviledges might be different.


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## ronparise

Wyndham might work. Linda already mentioned Sugglers Notch and there is also Bentley Brook in their system


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## DeniseM

Very few resorts let you use your time for weekends only - that will be the most limiting factor.  Given your criteria, I am not sure that timesharing is for you.


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## SMHarman

You could also look at the Killington Grand.  I think with these Okemo and Killington Fractionals you get a rotating set of 13 weeks / weekends a year, 3 winter, spring, summer, fall.  If you don't use them they will try to rent them.

Also you could look at (though you end up in the 80s problem) the places like Sugarbush and Bridges Condos which they then will rent on the weeks / weekends you don't use.


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## humsor

I own a fractional at the Grand Summit (Mt. Snow).  Purchased resale a couple yrs ago.  Bottom line is we love it.  You get every 4th week, so about 4-5 ski weeks.  You can use your week, rent it with a 60:40 split with hotel, or reg with rci or ii and exchange.  You don't have to use full weeks, but mid-week doesn't rent well anyway.  It isn't for everyone, but works good for us.  Maintenance and taxes come to almost 5k, but we usually make about 2k on rentals.  We ski every ski weekend we have except holidays.  We rent those and avoid the crowds.  We trade about 4 spring and summer weeks and combine the tpu to about 70 each year.  We occasionally go up for spring and fall weekends, but it is quiet, and one summer long weekend or week.  Okemos is newer, so nicer, but 3x the initial cost.  A studio at Mount Snow is less than 15k.  You could get a three bedroom lock off for 50k.  The big selling point is the ski on/ ski off.  You can't put a price on that convenience with kids.

I don't know about Jackson Gore, but resales at the Grand Summit are deeded and we found all the listing with a real estate agent.  We got a pretty good deal, but I think they went a bit lower since then.  Don't care too much as we aren't selling anytime soon.  We use the resort a lot, but we've also gotten over a dozen exchanges through rci....our vacation budget has inflated considerably, but well worth it IMHO.  Good luck.


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## MommaBear

Sunday River also has a Grand Summit as well as the Jordan Grand. They are the same set up (but no longer affiliated with) Mt. Snow.


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## theo

*Sunday River in Maine*

Good friends of ours own a "quarter share" at Jordan Grand at Sunday River in Maine; I believe it involves 13 weeks of usage per year. They never go for a full weeks, only rarely at all in the summer months, but take lots of long ski weekends throughout the entire winter. They have "the house" rent out as many nights / weeks as possible for them when they aren't planning on using them, while they deposit a few others into RCI for "exchange" elsewhere. They are certainly not wealthy people, but it all seems to work out for them. 
I have no idea what they may have paid to "buy in" originally, also don't know if it was developer-direct or resale. I suppose the cost of "buy in" would figure strongly in assessing the the "value" of such a purchase. 

Persoanlly, I wouldn't want to have to invest the time or the effort (let alone sink in the "buy in" cost) to deal with 13 individual weeks, some of them very low demand, but to each his / her own...


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## WinniWoman

theo said:


> Good friends of ours own a "quarter share" at Jordan Grand at Sunday River in Maine; I believe it involves 13 weeks of usage per year. They never go for a full weeks, only rarely at all in the summer months, but take lots of long ski weekends throughout the entire winter. They have "the house" rent out as many nights / weeks as possible for them when they aren't planning on using them, while they deposit a few others into RCI for "exchange" elsewhere. They are certainly not wealthy people, but it all seems to work out for them.
> I have no idea what they may have paid to "buy in" originally, also don't know if it was developer-direct or resale. I suppose the cost of "buy in" would figure strongly in assessing the the "value" of such a purchase.
> 
> Persoanlly, I wouldn't want to have to invest the time or the effort (let alone sink in the "buy in" cost) to deal with 13 individual weeks, some of them very low demand, but to each his / her own...



And how much would the maintenance fees be annually for 13 weeks? I was always curious about this. I would think big bucks!


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## humsor

*Depends on unit size*



mpumilia said:


> And how much would the maintenance fees be annually for 13 weeks? I was always curious about this. I would think big bucks!



Studio is about 3k, 1br lockout is close to 5k.  Some of this can be defrayed by rental income.


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## WinniWoman

humsor said:


> Studio is about 3k, 1br lockout is close to 5k.  Some of this can be defrayed by rental income.



That's not bad- I thought it would be like twice that, considering what one week club owner maintenance fees are at my home resort (Smugglers Notch). I do think the fractional owners at Smugglers Notch pay more than that, though...


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## twinmommy19

We have looked into these fractionals before. I believe that unless you put the weeks / days you own in the rental pool, you are also responsible for paying separate daily housekeeping fees for the weeks you own in addition to the maintenance.  This includes deposits to RCI / II.  I don't know how much that comes to exactly.  Truthfully - I wish RCI and II would change this policy and force the exchanger to pay this instead as maybe there would be more deposits at these places if they did this.

After researching, I concluded that these fractionals would only be worth it for us in retirement - at that point the bonus time feature would be hugely advantageous as I'm sure there is plenty of mid-week availability even during peak season.  I believe most of these places allow owners to reserve the best available room for housekeeping fee only at the last minute subject to availability.  That seems like a huge perk to me if your a skier.


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## humsor

The bonus time (called Space A at my resort) is awesome.  If the resort is less than 90% occupied, then owner's can come up and stay for just the cost of housekeeping.  This is hard to get winter weekends, festival weekends, and never on holidays, but otherwise, it is almost always available.  You do have to pay housekeeping for the RCI guest when they stay in your unit.  Not an RCI rule, the resort makes the decision to increase the trade value/Rating of the units.  The resorts do a great job of maintaining and updating, but it is a ski resort, so they take a fair bit of abuse and they can't change layouts or sq footage of units, and they aren't getting any younger.  Therefore, they go above and beyond in my opinion with the things they can control, like valet service, housekeeping every other day, Spa services, etc.  You don't have to pay housekeeping if you don't use your unit and don't put it in the rental pool (not sure why you would do this).  I do one of three things with my weeks, use all or more often part of it, trade it with RCI, or put it in the rental pool (some days rent, most don't off-season).  I use approximately 20 nights a year mostly broken into (long)weekends, and mostly during ski season.  I deposit about 4-5 spring/summer weeks into RCI, and I leave the rest in the rental pool.  I usually get about 40% of my maintenance and taxes covered by my rental income (note:  I always rent winter holiday weeks when I get them, rather than use them and fight the crowds, so that always boosts revenue).  So the math gets complicated, but our family gets 20 nights+ at our home resort plus 3-4 trades in RCI for about $5K total annually(maintenance, taxes, housekeeping, RCI dues, RCI combine fees, RCI trade fees).  I spend a lot more now on vacations overall than before I bought the fractional, but to do all the things we do, while staying at 1-2 bedroom resorts, would cost near $12K, so it works for us.  As a result we are doing a lot more travelling and ultimately that time spent with my family is priceless.  Even my super-skeptical wife, who resisted this purchase for years, often comments on how right the decision was for us rather than waiting until the "timing was better".

Last suggestion:  Don't put anything off until retirement, do whatever it is you think you will want to do in retirement now, and then do it even more once you do retire.  Why wait?



bonk2boy said:


> We have looked into these fractionals before. I believe that unless you put the weeks / days you own in the rental pool, you are also responsible for paying separate daily housekeeping fees for the weeks you own in addition to the maintenance.  This includes deposits to RCI / II.  I don't know how much that comes to exactly.  Truthfully - I wish RCI and II would change this policy and force the exchanger to pay this instead as maybe there would be more deposits at these places if they did this.
> 
> After researching, I concluded that these fractionals would only be worth it for us in retirement - at that point the bonus time feature would be hugely advantageous as I'm sure there is plenty of mid-week availability even during peak season.  I believe most of these places allow owners to reserve the best available room for housekeeping fee only at the last minute subject to availability.  That seems like a huge perk to me if your a skier.


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## WinniWoman

humsor said:


> The bonus time (called Space A at my resort) is awesome.  If the resort is less than 90% occupied, then owner's can come up and stay for just the cost of housekeeping.  This is hard to get winter weekends, festival weekends, and never on holidays, but otherwise, it is almost always available.  You do have to pay housekeeping for the RCI guest when they stay in your unit.  Not an RCI rule, the resort makes the decision to increase the trade value/Rating of the units.  The resorts do a great job of maintaining and updating, but it is a ski resort, so they take a fair bit of abuse and they can't change layouts or sq footage of units, and they aren't getting any younger.  Therefore, they go above and beyond in my opinion with the things they can control, like valet service, housekeeping every other day, Spa services, etc.  You don't have to pay housekeeping if you don't use your unit and don't put it in the rental pool (not sure why you would do this).  I do one of three things with my weeks, use all or more often part of it, trade it with RCI, or put it in the rental pool (some days rent, most don't off-season).  I use approximately 20 nights a year mostly broken into (long)weekends, and mostly during ski season.  I deposit about 4-5 spring/summer weeks into RCI, and I leave the rest in the rental pool.  I usually get about 40% of my maintenance and taxes covered by my rental income (note:  I always rent winter holiday weeks when I get them, rather than use them and fight the crowds, so that always boosts revenue).  So the math gets complicated, but our family gets 20 nights+ at our home resort plus 3-4 trades in RCI for about $5K total annually(maintenance, taxes, housekeeping, RCI dues, RCI combine fees, RCI trade fees).  I spend a lot more now on vacations overall than before I bought the fractional, but to do all the things we do, while staying at 1-2 bedroom resorts, would cost near $12K, so it works for us.  As a result we are doing a lot more travelling and ultimately that time spent with my family is priceless.  Even my super-skeptical wife, who resisted this purchase for years, often comments on how right the decision was for us rather than waiting until the "timing was better".
> 
> Last suggestion:  Don't put anything off until retirement, do whatever it is you think you will want to do in retirement now, and then do it even more once you do retire.  Why wait?



Most of us have to put some things off until we are no longer working (if that can ever happen) because we get minimal time off from our jobs.


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## Slepstein

I could have written the same info about Mt Snow as was written by HUMSOR.  I have a two bedroom loft with a lock-out that is rented all summer to conference groups.  When I want to use it for weekends, I can  get three days "space available"  I can even get some winter mid weeks when it is not my full weeks.  

Having 13 weeks give us such flexibility.  We always put April and May into Interval International for trades, rent the summer weeks for income and use the winter weeks and/or weekend for skiing and other winter sports.   

Being at the base of the slope is great.  

When I bought in 2010 I knew prices were going down; they did.  But I bought the 1/4 share for what would have been a down payment on a regular condo and have no problems of ownership and renting.  We have enjoyed using the place so much and are not planning to sell soon.


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## Marathoner

In addition to the aforementioned Grand Summit/properties at Sunday River, MT Snow, and Killington, there are a number of other ski timeshare/fractional properties near Mass.

Some that come to mind:
Sugarloaf Mountain Hotel - Sugarloaf
InnSeason at Pollard Brook - Loon 
Mountain Club on Loon - Loon
Bethel Inn - Sunday River
Eagles Resort - Sugarbush
Trapp Family Resort - Stowe
Mountainside Resort at Stowe - Stowe
Smugglers Notch Resort - Smugglers Notch

And I'm sure there are a number of others.  

I have fond memories of some of the places of the above when I didn't have kids but I mostly fly out West for skiing nowadays rather than drive up north.  Several years ago, I had the bright idea to take the family up to Stowe for a (minor) holiday weekend.  Due to the distance and the traffic on I-95, it took me an exhausting 8 hours to drive to Stowe (instead of 6hrs).  Then the skiing over the weekend was in frigid cold weather and most of the mountain was ice.  Everything was expensive and because I hadn't booked any restaurants ahead of time, we couldn't get into any of the good restaurants for dinner. Needless to say, I was quite unpopular for a while after that weekend and my kids refuse to consider skiing in Vermont any more. I realize that this was only one data sample and some of the problems were due to my lack of planning.

But my general view is that aside from the plane costs (which can be significant), most of the other costs - lodging, food, travel time - is pretty much the same for us whether we go to Utah/Colorado or go to Vermont/Maine.

But back to your original query, there are a number of good timeshares in Vermont/Maine but you need to do your due diligence as they are not affiliated with the major upscale hotel brands and I believe some are not in great financial shape.  It is also not clear to me whether there is value in owning one there rather than simply renting.


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## SMHarman

The fractional work if you want multiple weekends skiing in a season and you are family. 

You can often get smaller space at a great price last minute b


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## WinniWoman

I think in Vermont you can get value from fractional ownership at Smuggs, Trapp Family Lodge, Jackson Gore in or Jay Peak. If you have the dough, there is the newly built, luxurious Stowe Mountain Lodge.

In New Hampshire, they are building that Riverwalk resort at Loon. Not sure if there is fractional ownership at Blue Green South Mountain (Loon also)/


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## SMHarman

mpumilia said:


> I think in Vermont you can get value from fractional ownership at Smuggs, Trapp Family Lodge, Jackson Gore in or Jay Peak. If you have the dough, there is the newly built, luxurious Stowe Mountain Lodge.
> 
> In New Hampshire, they are building that Riverwalk resort at Loon. Not sure if there is fractional ownership at Blue Green South Mountain (Loon also)/


But the if you have the dough leads to the question 

What is the capital you put in. What is the capital you get back. How does that compare to cap app in the s&p 500 over the same time frame.

Also those destinations are a hike from Boston


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