# Westgate Nightmare need assistance



## Unlucky2.1.2012 (Jun 26, 2013)

So first off I would like to thank all those who participated in past threads steering the "newbie's" into the right direction. I was lucky enough to be able to do a little research "after the fact of signing" that I fell into the well pitched and glamorous deal with Westgate Resorts in Orlando. Hadn't I read some of the post about timeshare monsters and the act of rescinding and cancelling a major mistake, I would have never known to go through the proper steps in the allotted time. 

So here is the story June 18, 2013, a quick breakfast, a 90 minute sales pitch and wa la six hours later I was a proud owner of my first timeshare interest. Another sucker fish on the line is what I felt days later. I looked back and felt that I was pressured by sales person after sales person after managers speaking with us telling me and my wife that it was going to be a great opportunity and that we would never get this opportunity again and that we could not think it overnight and we had to decide then and there. It all seemed and sounded great at the time. So we decided to go through with it. 

Papers signed, signed so fast we didn't even get a chance to read them in detail, the closing officer rushing us in signing document after document. She gave us our contract and additional information in it sealed air tight envelope and told us we would never need to open this envelope and to "store it in a safe place" as the envelope states. That drew a flag and indicator to do a little research of my own, even though I had already signed the documents. A couple nights later I open the forbidden envelope after reading the post on this website on rescinding a contract. I was given ten days to rescind and was lucky enough to find this out in time and set the ball in motion in only three days sending my cancellation letter by USPS and requesting a return receipt. 

I received a call from a lady from Westgate today informing me they had received my letter and tried to talk me into staying with Westgate by dropping the price of the timeshare and adding other lucrative deals, I stated that I was not interested very politely and that financially I could not afford it at this particular time period several times. She told me that I was breaching my contract and that I would need to go with the new deal or have legal actions taken. I told her that I was a member of the Armed Forces and I was going to take the contract to military lawyers to see what options I would have. She told me she was going to have to take it to the legal section and that she didn't know the legalities of the process. Wow! She was just another sales person, how are you going to tell someone their breaching a contract if they don't know for sure they are breaching a contract. I told her to send me drafts of the new deal as well as all the legalities on cancelling the timeshare so I could have lawyers scan through it. I am still awaiting the email.

So here is my question to the ones who might know,

The sales lady told me I was breaching the contract because we signed a promissory note and notarized the warranty deed on the spot and may I add that the owner block of the deed copy I have was still not signed, and that we were locked in and could not cancel. Suspicious I think.

Should I be worried that I am going to plunge into this money pit with no hopes of getting out, or am I in the clear and have nothing to worry about? Has anyone had a similar circumstance?


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## DeniseM (Jun 26, 2013)

She lied to you - stand by your guns and don't back down.  The developer does not have the legal right to deny your right to rescind.  Just make sure that you followed the rescinding instructions exactly.

I hope you did not verbally agree to drop the rescission?

AND WHAT EVER YOU DO - DON'T TALK TO THEM AGAIN!


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## vacationtime1 (Jun 26, 2013)

Your screen name "Unlucky" is wrong; you are very fortunate to have rescinded in a timely fashion.  

If you mailed the rescission in on time (which you did) and you don't sign anything else (which we know you won't), you escaped unscathed.

Congrats.


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## Unlucky2.1.2012 (Jun 26, 2013)

Well I hope everything is free, clear and away, I appreciate the quick responses. I am definitely not going to take any additional calls from this company. My rescinding of this contract is final and have no plans on dropping the rescission. If all goes well, I now have the basic knowledge of timeshares, knowledge I should have had to begin with to make a more educated decision on future "resale" buys when the time is right.


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## Mike&Edie (Jun 26, 2013)

*verbal contract*

I share DeniseM's concern about the phone conversation.  If you got engaged in a conversation and were provoked to imply that you would look at new terms on the contract and did not clearly state that you want the contract rescission  to move forward they might try to slime you and argue that you telephonically cancelled the rescission and agreed to look at new terms, which they will wait more than 10 days to send to you.  I would follow up with a letter spelling out that you want the contract rescission to proceed as originally requested in writing on (date).  I wouldn't talk to them except to be a broken record playing over and over again, "I want to cancel the contract"  But sir, we have better terms, "I want to cancel the contract"  You can't do that...."I want to cancel the contract." You are in breach..."I want to cancel the contract"

Good luck, don't change your position or get engaged is side conversations.

Mike
www.fulltimetimeshare.com


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## Unlucky2.1.2012 (Jun 26, 2013)

*Verbal Contract*

As per the Verbal contract that they can use, should I go through the exact process using USPS and get a return receipt. I never thought about what they could use from the phone conversation. I am on day number 9, so I would have to act fast tomorrow in getting this letter out. Would it bust time if I sent it USPS tomorrow?


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## Passepartout (Jun 26, 2013)

I think you are probably OK, but for your peace of mind, another letter wouldn't hurt. Those people are completely without honor, and they have shown us that they will try any sneaky, underhanded lying weaseley tactic they can. Challenge the charge with your credit card carrier (if you gave the number to them)- cancel the card and get a new number issued if necessary.

Odds are that you have dodged their bullet, but one just can't be too sure.

Best wishes for a successful outcome. 

Jim


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## theo (Jun 26, 2013)

*Close the door (...again) and lock it shut*

Engaging in *any* post-rescission phone conversation with these slimy sales vermin was clearly a mistake which (as others have already noted above) has only potentially muddied the waters of your initial rescission / cancellation. You've now given the weasels room for their own subjective "interpretation" of that phone conversation and you must now close that door (...again) and lock it shut.

IMnsHO, you should now prepare and send another letter while the rescission period is still open, plainly reinforcing in writing and under signature that nothing has changed and that you are still exercising your right to rescind; a right provided to you by applicable state law. State in writing that nothing in your phone conversation can or should be construed or interpreted in any other way. 

Get the new letter postmarked before the 10 days elapse and, needless to say, *stay off the phone*.


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## csxjohn (Jun 26, 2013)

theo said:


> Engaging in *any* ...IMnsHO, you should now prepare and send another letter while the rescission period is still open, plainly reinforcing in writing and under signature that nothing has changed and that you are still exercising your right to rescind; a right provided to you by applicable state law.... .



I would stop right there and not mention any phone conversation.

Do what theo says but say, "on this date (meaning today) nothing has changed ....

Not legal advice, just my opinion.  Why bring up the phone conversation and bring it to their attention?


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## RX8 (Jun 26, 2013)

I don't think there is any concern even if the OP verbally agreed to drop the rescission.  The only way to prove that is if the phone call was recorded. The recording will also include the lies about breaching the contract by rescinding.


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## vacationtime1 (Jun 27, 2013)

Contracts for the sale of real estate must be be evidenced by a writing.

OP's initial contract with Wastegate was in writing; it was enforceable until OP rescinded it in writing and in a timely fashion.  At that point, there was no contract.

The telephone conversation was obviously not a writing.  If Wastegate were able to enforce it, it would be tantamount to a verbal contract to sell real property.  Legally, it is a nullity.

That said, it will not hurt OP (and it will probably make him feel more secure) to send a letter along the lines Theo (as augmented by John) suggests -- and definitely short and to the point.  Yes, use the same method of delivery as the original contract provides for rescission.


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## timeos2 (Jun 27, 2013)

As just posted above send a second letter again confirming your rescinding if you wish, but no verbal contract can overrule a written one. You are safe there. 

You have seen the incredible - and illegal! - lengths Wastegate will go to in making a sale. Stating that you are "breaching" by using your absolute right to rescind is about as low as anyone can go in straight out lies and misrepresentation. Be so thankful you got out. They are the worst of the worst.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Jun 27, 2013)

As a side note, Westgate has an office in every resort whose job is to prevent rescission. Their job is, while the person is inside the Rescission Period, to talk out any concerns they have. So, that's who called you. If the deal is reinstated, the OP can file a lawsuit. They (Westgate) can not reinstate a contract verbally. Wastegate would need to find the recorded call, and it would be proven that the contract was illegally reinstated.

TS


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## Rent_Share (Jun 27, 2013)

simpsontruckdriver said:


> As a side note, Westgate has an office in every resort whose job is to prevent rescission. Their job is, while the person is inside the Rescission Period, to talk out any concerns they have. So, that's who called you. If the deal is reinstated, the OP can file a lawsuit. They (Westgate) can not reinstate a contract verbally. Wastegate would need to find the recorded call, and it would be proven that the contract was illegally reinstated.
> 
> TS


 
Any contract for real estate must be in writing

See Statute of Frauds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_frauds



> The *statute of frauds* refers to the requirement that certain kinds of contracts be memorialized in a signed writing with sufficient content to evidence the contract.
> Traditionally, the statute of frauds requires a signed writing in the following circumstances:
> 
> Contracts in consideration of marriage. This provision covers prenuptial agreements.
> ...


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## SMHarman (Jun 27, 2013)

vacationtime1 said:


> Contracts for the sale of real estate must be be evidenced by a writing.
> 
> OP's initial contract with Wastegate was in writing; it was enforceable until OP rescinded it in writing and in a timely fashion.  At that point, there was no contract.
> 
> ...


^^^'
What he and others said.  The written contract overrides any verbal statements.  Just like the written contract overrides anything said by the sales person to close the deal.
It it is not written down, it did not happen.


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## theo (Jun 27, 2013)

*Two minutes work, plus postage...*



SMHarman said:


> <snip>  The written contract overrides any verbal statements.  Just like the written contract overrides anything said by the sales person to close the deal. It it is not written down, it did not happen.



Fully understood, agreed and not in dispute for even a moment, *but*...

Remember that we are still talking about Westgate here, perhaps the lowest of the low in the entire timeshare industry and IMnsHO even considerably lower than sunken whale dung. The Wastegate weasels could very well choose to at least *try* to bamboozle any contracted buyer in an attempt to salvage a sale.

As a point of law, a valid written rescission clearly stands alone and in full force and effect until or unless retracted in writing. No one here disagrees with that indisputable fact, but IMnsHO Westgate is still capable of *trying almost anything*. We've seen, to cite just one specific example, Wastegate rescission instructions being buried deep within an accompanying CD in an obvious effort to conceal the contract rescission rights provided by applicable state law from a unwitting buyer.

In short, I'd personally be inclined to avoid any possibility, however remote, of a lengthy and completely avoidable legal song and dance routine with Westgate by marginalizing the unfortunate phone conversation with a written reinforcement of the original rescission. Two minutes work and the cost of postage seems not a whole lot of effort to me to slam the door completely shut on these weasels with no further contact. 
Just my personal opinion, to implement or ignore as you may see fit...


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## Unlucky2.1.2012 (Jun 27, 2013)

Alright it's day ten of my rescission period, I went ahead and followed the advice given above and resent another rescission letter emergency rush with a return receipt. I decided to scan through the given CD with all the closing documents into the computer to find out it had nothing but a single adobe page with a barcode i cant use and a metric turd ton of other westgate resort information. Any future calls or contact with westgate is totally out of the question. Well I hope things work out with this because with all I have heard about this place, I only hope I eluded the headache of working with or working FOR westgate. I can't express how much I do appreciate the advice I have been giving here at tug.


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## TUGBrian (Jun 27, 2013)

Its folks like these (the person on the phone, not you) that do nothing but further hurt the image of this industry.

Sad this happened to you, but glad you were able to get out while you could!


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## Rent_Share (Jun 27, 2013)

Keep your eyes out on your cable/satellite/netflicks provider for the documentary "The Queen of Versailles"  It's currently being shown on CNBC

A fish begins to stink at the head


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## YeongWoo (Jun 27, 2013)

*Welcome to TUG!*



TUGBrian said:


> Its folks like these (the person on the phone, not you) that do nothing but further hurt the image of this industry.
> 
> Sad this happened to you, but glad you were able to get out while you could!



The industry image suffers needlessly because of these sales weasels.  Hopefully, you are out of the contract and better educated about timeshares.  The resorts and vacation memories are real but only worth the resale prices...

Take your time learning on TUG and you'll make a better purchase in the future.


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## khalil (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi Unlucky

I just hope wastegate executes a refund back to you immediately. Please let me know.
These wastegate sales people have no conscience of the absurd way they market to people.
Wish sum bright spark warns all the people about wastegate dirty, bogus and dishonest sales tactics used in enticing the consumer to buy.


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## dinobot248 (Jun 29, 2013)

Well it took a few weeks for me to get my refund back.  See my post for some re-assurance.  The key is to follow the rescind instructions exactly.  Also, I did get a confirmation canceling the timeshare in the mail.  I am keep that letter , a scan of my USPS receipts, plus credit card statement showing proof of refund in my safe along with birth certificate, passport, etc.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193186

Ps I hate typing on an iPad


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## simpsontruckdriver (Jun 29, 2013)

Correct... Queen Of Versailles is available on Netflix.

TS


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## theo (Jun 29, 2013)

*"Immediately" is neither likely nor a legal requirement...*



khalil said:


> <snip> I just hope wastegate executes a refund back to you immediately. <snip>



It is highly unlikley that there will be an "immediate" refund. It could take a few weeks and by law potentially up to a maximum of 45 days, but in the final analysis the Westgate vermin will have *no other choice* than to cancel the contract, as directed in writing by the buyer exercising his legal rights under applicable state law, and issue a full refund of the initial deposit (...potentially minus a small administrative charge for any owner materials which were provided at contract execution but not subsequently returned by the buyer).


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## khalil (Jun 30, 2013)

a small administrative charge for any owner materials which were provided at contract execution but not subsequently returned by the buyer).[/QUOTE]

How much will owner materials be approximately ?
How much does it cost to send a rescission letter via usps?
Can someone send me a sample copy of a rescind letter ? 
How is the recission period for each state ?

Sorry for all the questions need to know so that i can advice other people.


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## Rent_Share (Jun 30, 2013)

khalil said:


> a small administrative charge for any owner materials which were provided at contract execution but not subsequently returned by the buyer)
> 
> .........
> 
> Sorry for all the questions need to know so that i can advice other people.


 
How much will owner materials be approximately ? It will vary by Timeshare Brand

How much does it cost to send a rescission letter via usps? Why is that meaningful to someone in South Africa ?

Can someone send me a sample copy of a rescind letter ? http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cancel_timeshare_purchase.html

How is the recission period for each state ? http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102785

I am suspicious of your interest in trying to "advice" people on US law from South Africa, it would appear to me you're churning your post count to gain credibility for some other purpose


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## Mike&Edie (Jul 1, 2013)

*Queen of Versailles*

Watched it.  Wow, a different world.  At the Hertz car rental counter, "What is my driver's name" and my favorite, "I never would have had so many kids if I'd known I couldn't have nannies".  Very strange.
Mike
www.fulltimetimeshare.com


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## sfwilshire (Jul 3, 2013)

Unlucky2.1.2012 said:


> it was going to be a great opportunity and that we would never get this opportunity again and that we could not think it overnight and we had to decide then and there.



My husband always laughs out loud when a salesman gives me that line, usually a car salesman. He knows that nothing will make me leave a business quicker than someone telling me that the deal is good today only. 

Sheila


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## ReneeB (Jul 7, 2013)

So we found ourselves in the same situation as others trying to rescind our Westgate Orlando timeshare.  I found some posts from this board with a sample letter and before we left Florida, sent our letter certified, return receipt requested.
our mistake (ok so I didn't find everything here) was to call the person we closed with to tell him we were rescinding.
Suddenly, there was another option to purchase something cheaper, which they were going to email me the details.  Reading the posts above, I will send _another_ letter tomorrow (only day 9) to reiterate we are rescinding.
My question is, do we need to speak with a lawyer or is it really possible that our letter will be enough?
Thank you to anyone in advance who responds to this.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 7, 2013)

Be sure to keep your USPS return receipt for the rescission letter.  We kept our Wyndham return receipt for about three years.  I kept it in a safe place and knew right where it was.  I was not going to have them say they never received it months later.  

You should be fine with your rescission letters.  Westgate really is one of the sleaziest in the industry.


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## theo (Jul 8, 2013)

*You are being much too charitable...*



rickandcindy23 said:


> <snip> Westgate really is one of the sleaziest in the industry.



Westgate has no real, legitimate competition as "the worst of the worst" in the timeshare industry, IMnsHO. Whoever is in second place (...Legacy Vacation Club, formerly known as Celebrity Resorts, and / or Wyndham sales weasels are certainly good candidates for second place) are probably too far behind to ever take over the first place position. 

Westgate is even lower than whale dung which has already sunk to the ocean floor.


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## Rent_Share (Jul 8, 2013)

theo said:


> Westgate has no real, legitimate competition as "the worst of the worst" in the timeshare industry, IMnsHO. Whoever is in second place (...Legacy Vacation Club, formerly known as Celebrity Resorts, and / or Wyndham sales weasels are certainly good candidates for second place) are probably too far behind to ever take over the first place position.
> 
> Westgate is even lower than whale dung which has already sunk to the ocean floor.


 
I nominate DRI - Including Clooberg


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## pacodemountainside (Jul 9, 2013)

I will go with Mexico for first place. Have done Mexico, Westgate and Wyndham  and  no contest!

As I recall a couple posts where they refused to give incentives and talked with people who  they refused to pay cab fare back to home resort and cost about $40.


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## Passepartout (Jul 9, 2013)

The contest for which sleazy salesweasel is in contention for 'lower than whale poop' is always open to conjecture. All those listed are in contention.

*Buyer: Beware!* Especially when on their turf. They are bad enough when encountered at airports, malls, street corners and anywhere else,  but when they control your environment and ability to leave, they have 'home court advantage'.


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## ReneeB (Jul 16, 2013)

We got our return receipt to the first letter we sent. I canceled the credit card where the monthly payment was to get charged to and started the dispute process for the west gate credit card we stupidly applied for to charge the deposit. That card will be canceled as soon as the deposit is refunded. Did I miss anything?  After reading these posts I am obsessing.  I won't rest easy until I know this is resolved.


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## Mike&Edie (Jul 16, 2013)

You should soon be getting your refund.  Please let us all know the end to this story.  I am very hopeful for your successful outcome.

Mike
www.fulltimetimeshare.com


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## ReneeB (Jul 18, 2013)

So today we got a letter from west gate and I thought it was the cancellation letter but instead it's a "welcome to the family" letter. Yikes!  Now I'm obsessing all over again. Did this ever happen to anyone who rescinded in the right timeframe? 
Sorry to be so doubtful but it's like I can't believe it till i see it.


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## timeos2 (Jul 19, 2013)

ReneeB said:


> So today we got a letter from west gate and I thought it was the cancellation letter but instead it's a "welcome to the family" letter. Yikes!  Now I'm obsessing all over again. Did this ever happen to anyone who rescinded in the right timeframe?
> Sorry to be so doubtful but it's like I can't believe it till i see it.



Spit out by their incredibly proficient waste paper generator they use to inundate owners with bogus "news" and offers to rope their friends into coming to a Wastegate resort and being forced to sit through a high pressure sales torture. 

They are no where near as good at getting your cancellation correctly processed and any needed credits issued but, as you followed the rules and did it in the proper time frame, your ownership has been ended - the purchase rescinded. Nothing they do or say or mail you can change that now. Just watch for anything that says you owe them any money - only that would be a sign that they are breaking more laws by ignoring your legal right to rescind. 

They are the worst and you should be on your guard but this does not sound like any attempt to "undo" your cancellation just poor communication between the Welcome Weasels and the cancelled contract group. Don't sweat it.


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## Patri (Jul 19, 2013)

I agree. This was probably sent out automatically by another department. Your credit card account will show a credit at some point. Not sure timeshares send out a cancellation letter. They just want you to find out on your own when the rescission is complete.


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## theo (Jul 19, 2013)

*Yes, no, maybe....*



Patri said:


> <snip> Not sure timeshares send out a cancellation letter. <snip>



Some do, some don't --- none are legally obligated to do so. Their only legal obligation is to process and effect the cancellation and refund (generally within a maximum 45 days) any deposit money paid. Developer can potentially deduct from that refund the cost of any so-called "owner materials" which may have been issued at the time of contract execution but which were not subsequently returned upon later rescission.

Another poster (specifically, Glock332) indicated yesterday in the TUG Buying, Selling & Renting forum having just received from Westgate a written acknowledgement of his very recent contract rescission.


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## Unlucky2.1.2012 (Jul 20, 2013)

*Westgate Nightmare "UPDATE"*

"UPDATE" Well looks like everything went as planned, Westgate finally sent a cancellation notice of my timeshare contract and a receipt for my refund with the exception 50 dollars until I return their Owners manual, the one in the big pleather binder. The timeline was approx. 3 weeks from the time I sent the original rescind notice. Its nice to know that I am free and clear of these guys. My next Timeshare purchase or experience will be done properly and resale if bought; however maybe just renting at first will be good. I would like to thank everyone who gave me the time sensitive information and steps needed to shake this mistake. If anyone would like a draft of the rescind letter or any help I am open to continue to help the cause, just reach out to me and I will do what I can.


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## csxjohn (Jul 20, 2013)

Unlucky2.1.2012 said:


> ... I would like to thank everyone who gave me the time sensitive information and steps needed to shake this mistake. If anyone would like a draft of the rescind letter or any help I am open to continue to help the cause, just reach out to me and I will do what I can.



Well done, I'm happy for you.

The best thing you can do now is to follow these forums and watch for someone in your situation and link this thread to them so you can help them the same way you were helped.


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## pedro47 (Jul 20, 2013)

That is great news, never ever buy direct from a developer. Remember to keep all your returned paper work in a safe place.


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## vacationtime1 (Jul 20, 2013)

Nice work; nice result.

I have two thoughts in regard to your research for resale timeshares:

1.  Consider renting before you buy.  It gives you an inexpensive way to check out the specific timeshare before you commit yourself to it year after year.

2.  Stay away from Westgate -- even for resales.


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## ReneeB (Jul 22, 2013)

*Update*



ReneeB said:


> So today we got a letter from west gate and I thought it was the cancellation letter but instead it's a "welcome to the family" letter. Yikes!  Now I'm obsessing all over again. Did this ever happen to anyone who rescinded in the right timeframe?
> Sorry to be so doubtful but it's like I can't believe it till i see it.



first- thank you to everyone who replied to my posts and helped quell my paranoia about canceling our purchase.  I am THRILLED to report that _today's_ letter was the one I was waiting for.  Our Westgate timeshare purchase was officially canceled and our deposit was refunded.  They want their binder back in 30 days or they will charge us $50.  you can bet that will go out first thing tomorrow.  What a relief!  Stumbling upon this board was a blessing.  I'm glad there are people out there who are not afraid to share their experiences and expertise!  
Just one more question- do I need to send back our copy of the paperwork we signed?  (I already made copies)
Many thanks again.  (can you sense my relief?)


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## theo (Jul 22, 2013)

*My $0.02 worth...*



ReneeB said:


> <snip> Just one more question- do I need to send back our copy of the paperwork we signed?  (I already made copies)



No, you do not need to (and you should not) send back the originals of any contract documents in your possession which you signed prior to rescinding --- *keep* them. Actually, you don't really even need to send back any photocopies either, but if you feel obligated to send back anything along with the returned "owner materials", send Westgate the photocopies and keep the originals in your possession.


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