# Redweek exhanging---price/point values



## mjs

Just wondering what redweek has offered you as far as the price per point?

example---maintaince fee----$500/1000pts=  .5 dollar or 50cents per point

Also--Who has been offered the highest point value for one week?

You can list the resort/week or leave this out.


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## theo

mjs said:


> Just wondering what redweek has offered you as far as the price per point?
> 
> example---maintaince fee----$500/1000pts=  .5 dollar or 50cents per point
> 
> Also--Who has been offered the highest point value for one week?
> 
> You can list the resort/week or leave this out.



Not sure how / why you want to factor maintenance fees into the picture (RedWeek surely doesn't), but that's certainly your prerogative to do so. RW has made it clear that additional points will be purchased for $1.00 per point, if needed to complete an exchange.

I submitted several different 2BR winter weeks I own in coastal FL for RW evaluation (I respectfully decline to specify resorts). None are "high end", but certainly none are "dumps" either. ALL came back valued at 1,517 "points". Whether coincidence or not, this figure is just about the same as weekly rental value, based on my experience, if expressed in dollars instead of "points". I didn't choose to deposit anything, since (in my opinion) RW has nothing to offer at this time as good as what I already have firmly in hand. As in ANY exchange program, it's all about "available inventory".


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## CMF

*Here is my score*

3 bed room Grande Vista for Memorial Day week - 2.484 points
2 bed room Grande Vista for Memorial Day Week - 1,917 point

I have not checked with my Foxrun week or the studio side of the three bedroom.

Charles


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## eoneguru

I submitted a 2 BR lockoff in Orlando, Christmas week 2008.

The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
The Studio - 984

Ray


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## PA-

eoneguru said:


> I submitted a 2 BR lockoff in Orlando, Christmas week 2008.
> 
> The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
> The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
> The Studio - 984
> 
> Ray




Amazing.  They offered 1917 points for a 2bedroom at that resort during Memorial day.  Many or most kids are still in school during that week.  While it may not be a dog week, it certainly isn't bright red.  On the other hand, Christmas is about as strong as it gets for O.  Same 1917 points?  Who's running the show there?

And by the way, if anyone thinks their points are related to rentals, look at ebay rental ads for both those weeks.  Neither of them will rent for $1917.


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## theo

Re: >> And by the way, if anyone thinks their points are related to rentals, look at ebay rental ads for both those weeks.  Neither of them will rent for $1917.<<

Personally, I don't regard ANYTHING on eBay as being a valid benchmark for ANYTHING in terms of timeshare value, whether rental or sale. Too many other variables, too many "men behind the curtain" ---and much too little truth being told. Just my personal opinion.


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## mjs

eoneguru said:


> I submitted a 2 BR lockoff in Orlando, Christmas week 2008.
> 
> The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
> The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
> The Studio - 984
> 
> Ray



So I guess in this case, one would lock it off and make two seperate deposits since it will yeild more points.


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## PA-

theo said:


> Re: >> And by the way, if anyone thinks their points are related to rentals, look at ebay rental ads for both those weeks.  Neither of them will rent for $1917.<<
> 
> Personally, I don't regard ANYTHING on eBay as being a valid benchmark for ANYTHING in terms of timeshare value, whether rental or sale. Too many other variables, too many "men behind the curtain" ---and much too little truth being told. Just my personal opinion.




Be that as it may, would YOU pay $2000 for a 2bedroom condo in Orlando?


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## rickandcindy23

II was renting Marriott's Cypress Harbour for $499 for Memorial Day week.  I know because I checked for a friend about three weeks out.


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## jjking42

my MF cost per RW point ranges from .24 to .275 depending on what resort i deposit


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## theo

PA- said:


> Be that as it may, would YOU pay $2000 for a 2bedroom condo in Orlando?



Not in this particular lifetime --- but I might consider being PAID $2k to be in Orlando.....


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## Anne S

I submitted my 2008 week 33 1 bedroom Aruba Beach Club and the good news is that they offered 2260 points for it. The bad news is that they have nothing in the Caribbean.


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## rsackett

I offered a Marriott Manor Club two bedroom, July 4th week 2008. They offered me 2017 points.

Given the Marriott priority I have with II, the fact that I would most likley get an AC, and the large inventory I get with II, I will stick with II. If Redweek gets a large inventory in the future I will reevaluate.

Ray


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## Phill12

Anne S said:


> I submitted my 2008 week 33 1 bedroom Aruba Beach Club and the good news is that they offered 2260 points for it. The bad news is that they have nothing in the Caribbean.




 People need to remember this is all new! It will take time and many owners like myself will just sit back and watch before trying it out if I ever do! With the cost I really don't see why I would leave II for Redweek!

 I would think owners of lower end resorts will be the ones jumping on here thinking they can get better resorts in trade. For them it would work because it looks like you can add money to your points to move up. Problem being how many top end resorts will be listed!

 I feel Redweek is trying something new and that is good but when I check out these site people recommend it seems to be lower end or season units that are listed!

 Even Hawaii where up till Memorial Week we were thinking of buying in Maui we checked out sites and really didn't find top end units and resorts listed!


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## Mom2MNEm

I submitted a Studio ( sleeps 4) at Divi Little Bay, St. Maarten. The week Starts Dec 1st 2007 ( Week 48).
That got me 1,155 points. 

Lisa


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## e.bram

Redweek should change it's name to Blueweek or Whiteweek at least insofar as it's exchange business is concerned. Don't find many redweeks in sales either. Maybe in rentals, but I don't want to rent, I have 6 TSes myself.


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## eoneguru

*Redweek Points Offer*



eoneguru said:


> I submitted a 2 BR lockoff in Orlando, Christmas week 2008.
> 
> The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
> The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
> The Studio - 984
> 
> Ray



For the sake of comparison, I submitted the same unit as above, but for week 42 in 2008. These are the offers:

The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
The Studio - 984

Bear in mind that this is not considered a top level resort and it, certainly is not prime time. How is it possible to get the same exchange value? 

Ray


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## Judy

I submitted four weeks for evaluation.  Of those, I only got an offer for one:

The Ridge Tahoe, week 7, 2007, 2 bedroom sleeps 6:   1934  points.

I don't think so    and they have nothing I'd want.


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## Phill12

Judy said:


> I submitted four weeks for evaluation.  Of those, I only got an offer for one:
> 
> The Ridge Tahoe, week 7, 2007, 2 bedroom sleeps 6:   1934  points.
> 
> I don't think so    and they have nothing I'd want.




  Judy, I had them check out my Ridge week(Naegle ) for July 4th week 2008 and they also came back with 1934 points! 

 Its early in there new system but as of now they have nothing I would trade for! 

 Also asked how they would figure points when their listing calls for studio,one,two, three bedrooms and not sure what they mean by hotel room unless they are talking about the lock-off unit.

 I was asking because we also own the Tower which is top rated with the Naegle buildings at the Ridge Tahoe and if you just go by bedrooms then your saying Tower,Plaza and Terrace would be the same and there is no way they are rated the same!:rofl: PHIL


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## Carolinian

eoneguru said:


> For the sake of comparison, I submitted the same unit as above, but for week 42 in 2008. These are the offers:
> 
> The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
> The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
> The Studio - 984
> 
> Bear in mind that this is not considered a top level resort and it, certainly is not prime time. How is it possible to get the same exchange value?
> 
> Ray



Their overaveraging problem seems even worse than RCI Points, and RCI Points is bad!  It looks like all red weeks are the same, whether bright red or pale pink.


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## J9sling

I submitted our Ron Jon Cape Caribe week 12 for consideration (sleeps 8) and was offered 1917 points.

This is a sold out week and I could probably get at least that, if not more, in dollars as a rental.  I'm surprised it came in the same as an Orlando resort considering it's beachfront.  Hmmmm......  I'm noticing a few 2BR Florida resorts being offered 1917.


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## BocaBum99

These results seem to debunk the theory that Redweek has a deep actual rental database for all resorts.  In essence, they are making their best guess at point values on a near real time basis.

The biggest problem with this is that there is NO PENALTY to Redweek if they make the assignment wrong.  In their current model, they can simply give more points at will.  If they see that their model isn't getting deposits, then can start offering 3000 or 4000 points to any depositer of a semi-decent week.  When that happens, it is the early depositers who get the shaft.  Very few units in Orlando will yield $2000 per week in rental.  That number is clearly wrong.

Now, if depositers could cash out their points at $1/point, then Redweek would be accountable.  This would be the equivalent of a gold standard.

Right now, it is a fundamental flaw in this point system to NOT base or ground the point system in something real.  It has to have a gold standard of some type to assure depositers that Redweek won't end up manufacturing points at will and creating hyperinflation with far too many points chasing far to little inventory.  I wonder what type of regulations this system must adhere to?


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## BocaBum99

J9sling said:


> I submitted our Ron Jon Cape Caribe week 12 for consideration (sleeps 8) and was offered 1917 points.
> 
> This is a sold out week and I could probably get at least that, if not more, in dollars as a rental.  I'm surprised it came in the same as an Orlando resort considering it's beachfront.  Hmmmm......  I'm noticing a few 2BR Florida resorts being offered 1917.



It's a very nice resort, but hardly any of the units at this resort are beachfront.  And, it's right next to a cruise ship port.

I would be surprised if you could get $1200 for a week there.  Sold out timeshares don't mean anything to renters.  Just the rate vs. the alternatives.


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## Timeshare Von

*My Results - FF Kingsgate May 08*

I submitted for valuations before finding/reading this thread, as I am seriously considering using RedWeek for a European exchange, probably for 2010.  Here's what Kingsgate, week 18 (May 3-10, 2008) fetched today:

1BR  1170 points
2BR  1560 points
3BR  2000 points

I know that this resort would not get those prices in rental fees, especially in overbuilt Williamsburg, so I may give them my 2BR side and see what I can do with it through them.


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## e.bram

I have a 2 br. oceanfront August unit(one of the few). !400 points. 
No other inventory in New England. No wonder.
Need I say more.


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## Carolinian

Valuing a shoulder season week in overbuilt Willimiamsburg higher than a same size prime season beach week on Cape Cod is just nuts, but most point systems seem to be prone to such wacky numbers.


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## Elan

BocaBum99 said:


> Now, if depositers could cash out their points at $1/point, then Redweek would be accountable.  This would be the equivalent of a gold standard.
> 
> Right now, it is a fundamental flaw in this point system to NOT base or ground the point system in something real.  It has to have a gold standard of some type to assure depositers that Redweek won't end up manufacturing points at will and creating hyperinflation with far too many points chasing far to little inventory.  I wonder what type of regulations this system must adhere to?





  I agree with the notion that a standard must be established for a points based system to work effectively.  I think the Redweek system may even work if they would just guarantee to buy back pts at $0.80 (or so) per issued point (based on their charging $1.00/pt).  I would deposit my summer EC week (worth 1500+ pts) if I knew I could always get $1200 back for those points -- even if I could rent the week myself for the full $1500.  Not really that much different than letting the resort rent out your week for commission, and it would probably spark the deposit of some decent weeks.


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## BocaBum99

Elan said:


> I agree with the notion that a standard must be established for a points based system to work effectively.  I think the Redweek system may even work if they would just guarantee to buy back pts at $0.80 (or so) per issued point (based on their charging $1.00/pt).  I would deposit my summer EC week (worth 1500+ pts) if I knew I could always get $1200 back for those points -- even if I could rent the week myself for the full $1500.  Not really that much different than letting the resort rent out your week for commission, and it would probably spark the deposit of some decent weeks.



I completely agree.


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## J9sling

BocaBum99 said:


> It's a very nice resort, but hardly any of the units at this resort are beachfront.  And, it's right next to a cruise ship port.
> 
> I would be surprised if you could get $1200 for a week there.  Sold out timeshares don't mean anything to renters.  Just the rate vs. the alternatives.



Boca, we rented this same week out for 2007 six months prior and got just under 2k for a poolside unit within 2 weeks of the listing followed by multiple other potential renters.  It does better than you think!  We were VERY pleased.  Maybe we were just lucky last year...who knows! 

The week we had did matter to renters who specifically wanted this resort and it was no longer available to rent directly from Ron Jon.  We even had a couple of people (inquiries in the first 3 days of listing) want to see if we could switch it to another week that we found out was also sold out.  They would have been happy to pay our asking price if they could get the week they wanted.

Based on our rental last year, it would have seemed that the 1917 offered was pretty close to an actual $1 per point rental value but after seeing the points offers to Orlando resorts for the same I wonder...


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## Timeshare Von

Carolinian said:


> Valuing a shoulder season week in overbuilt Willimiamsburg higher than a same size prime season beach week on Cape Cod is just nuts, but most point systems seem to be prone to such wacky numbers.



I agree which is what has me seriously considering banking the 2BR unit with RedWeek.  My only concern is that it is possible that everything will see inflation in point values and while some of the places I think I may want to go in 2009/2010 will be valued higher, also at inflated point values . . . making everything essentially a wash.


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## Timeshare Von

And in the meantime, I'm testing them for rentals for the first time . . . just to see how good RedWeek is.  I've never used a ad service like them before, so we'll see if my two Easter weeks get picked up or not.


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## BocaBum99

J9sling said:


> Boca, we rented this same week out for 2007 six months prior and got just under 2k for a poolside unit within 2 weeks of the listing followed by multiple other potential renters.  It does better than you think!  We were VERY pleased.  Maybe we were just lucky last year...who knows!
> 
> The week we had did matter to renters who specifically wanted this resort and it was no longer available to rent directly from Ron Jon.  We even had a couple of people (inquiries in the first 3 days of listing) want to see if we could switch it to another week that we found out was also sold out.  They would have been happy to pay our asking price if they could get the week they wanted.
> 
> Based on our rental last year, it would have seemed that the 1917 offered was pretty close to an actual $1 per point rental value but after seeing the points offers to Orlando resorts for the same I wonder...




Congratulations.  I'd say you did really well if you netted $2000 for your rental.  Here are the current listings for your resort on Redweek.  Did the resort rent the unit for you and collect a commission?  I can see it getting more if that was the case.  But then, the commission they charge eats into it.

Jun 21, 2007 - Dec 20, 2007  7  $1,000 ($143/night)  8   view posting  
Jul 07, 2007 - Jul 14, 2007  7  $1,000 ($143/night)  4   view posting  
Jul 20, 2007 - Jul 20, 2008  7  $1,259 ($180/night)  4   view posting  
Jul 28, 2007 - Aug 04, 2007  7  $1,100 ($157/night)  6   view posting  
Sep 01, 2007 - Sep 07, 2007  7  $1,400 ($200/night)  8   view posting


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## J9sling

We listed it for $1800 and got the full price but probably could have received more if we would have known the demand for our week.  We didn't use the resort to rent it.  They take a 25 or 30% cut.  We ended up using vacationtimesharerentals.com and redweek but our success was with VTR.  I have found that getting a prime spring break week is a good choice.  Families who want to come to a beachfront family resort don't have flexibility in spring break weeks...they must take the one their kids have.  People who want summer weeks usually can be more flexible.

It appears from your list that the people who are asking these lower rates either don't have a week reserved yet or don't have a clue and are low-balling their week!  If they don't have a week reserved yet and have a potential renter who wants a spring break or other high demand week they will be out of luck!  I doubt if many people that own do very much research into how to get the most out of renting their week.  That's what has been so great about TUG for us.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!  Back to the topic at hand!


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## chemteach

I was offered 1000 points for a 2 BR Peppertree Atlantic Beach Villas late July 2008 week, and I think 1517 for a 2 BR Country Club Villas late July 2008 week (Myrtle Beach area)

Not even considering depositing these...


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## PerryM

*Bit the bullet*

Well, I deposited 2 weeks, both of which I’ve rented in the past, and got approximately the same number of RW Points-that's all I can expect to get on this end of the transactions.  Now I have 3 years to watch the new system and I’m sure I’ll snap up something.

As I posted elsewhere I would hope that RW has a section of completed exchanges indicating the number of RW Points given to the owner, the number of RW Points gotten from the renter, and the length of time the reservation was in the system.  This would be all the proof needed to verify their system works fine.

I would also encourage RW to have the following set of counters:

Operational "Dashboard" which is live:

Points deposited: 123,456,789
Points exchanged: 123,456,789
Points open        : 123,456,789
Points lost         : 123,456,789
Points purchased : 123,456,789
Points bought      : 123,456,789
Net system......---------------
........................................0

(Points purchased is from RW members that paid cash.  Points bought is RW buying rental weeks to add to system)

This would then provide a 100% transparent Point System that would then provide security to those contemplating and using the system.  These numbers need to be verified by a CPA firm once a year.

I noticed that one of our deposited weeks was snapped up so fast I never saw it out there.

P.S.
As you can see it would take very little for RW to become the dominant exchange system out there - 100% transparency and a CPA firm verifying the numbers would blow II and RCI and RCI Points out of the water.

Will RW go the extra mile and do this?  I don't know.


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## ouaifer

PerryM said:


> ....
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that one of our deposited weeks was snapped up so fast I never saw it out there.




Perry,
Are you sure the week was _sanpped up_ or that RedWeek is going to rent it out?


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## PerryM

*Stick a fork in II and RCI*



ouaifer said:


> Perry,
> Are you sure the week was _sanpped up_ or that RedWeek is going to rent it out?



Let me put on my tinfoil hat and check...

Seriously, just because the timeshare industry has been abused by the major exchanges does not mean that someone can't introduce a product that is 100% transparent and works for all parties concerned.

I know some of you will be looking to be abused - let's give RW more than 2 weeks before you guys declare their system DOA.

P.S.
The historical record of exchanges plus the current "dashboard" of indicators is all RW needs to do to stick a fork in II and RCI.


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## Carolinian

chemteach said:


> I was offered 1000 points for a 2 BR Peppertree Atlantic Beach Villas late July 2008 week, and I think 1517 for a 2 BR Country Club Villas late July 2008 week (Myrtle Beach area)
> 
> Not even considering depositing these...



A 2BR prime beach week at half the points of an off season 2BR in overbuilt Orlando?????????   What are these guys smoking??????????  That will probably get them a lot of Orlando deposits but only a fool would deposit a beach week!


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## PerryM

*More questions.....*

One of the things I had hoped to do was to deposit a week, see it out there, and then ask for a quote on another week – I have many duplicates.

I’m just wondering how RW will handle the duplicate problem – will deposit #2 be less than #1 and will #3 be rejected for now?  Then when #1 and #2 exchange RW sends you a notice that it now has increased it’s offer on #3?

As you can see this can become a very robust system and reflect true supply and demand that the other exchanges can’t even dream about.

There are so many unanswered questions just 2 weeks into the system that I can't, for the life of me, see how you guys can claim either victory or defeat for this system.  Just declare unanswered questions that need to be answered by our own sleuthing of the system.

Me, I like what I see so far....

P.S.
On the RW main page, in the upper right hand corner, is the BBB Reliability Program symbol they subscribe to.  Here is the link in BBB http://www.thebbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=22034528

OK, someone show me that BBB symbol for II and RCI.

This is the sign of a company that cares about it's reputation.

But I'll let some of you guys get back to the smashing and bashing - I guess it's a lot of fun.


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## BocaBum99

Good job, Perry.

You are the true early adopter.  I am a committed late majority type person.  I always wait until a product concept proves mass adoption before I jump in.   As an example, I really want an iPhone right now.  But, I will wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation of that phone when prices are lower and the product is better.

This Redweek experiment has been a really good one.  I have learned more about success criteria for an exchange company by analyzing what they are doing than I have in several years just thinking about it in a vaccum.  I am sure they are learning a lot, too.  They will adapt as they go along.  They are on the right concept.  They just need to solve some major problems as all start ups need to do.

I agree that they are more transparent than any other exchange company.  I like your idea of the operational dashboard.  I asked DAE to provide such a dashboard and their response was that it was PROPRIETARY information that could give their competitors an advantage over them.   Actually, I think it's more so that their customers don't actually know how unstable their exchange system really is.

Probably the thing I have learned the most at this time is the importance of developer relationships.  Give that weeks expire and bonus weeks are given out by the typical exchange company, there has to be an external injection of extra weeks to keep the exchange gap to a minimum.  That can only be explained by expiring exchange credits or free weeks deposited by developers.  I think the developers have kept the exchange companies afloat.

Redweek clearly understood the need for weeks to start the system.  So, they got them from DAE.  To be sustainable in the long term, they will need to find a source to inject into the system to keep it going.  They can either buy them theirselves or find a set of relationships where they get them.


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## e.bram

Look. The primary problem with the exchange concept is too MANY white, blue and pink weeks chasing too FEW prime bright red weeks. These sub prime weeks are sold with the concept they can easily traded for prime weeks.
Just as the subprime mortgage system is collapsing, so will RW's exchange system.


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## PerryM

*I see a Sea change...*

The beauty of the RW system is that there are NO red, white, blue, green, yellow weeks – there are just rental rates.  No bronze, silver, gold, platinum - there are just rental rates.

It is now possible to buy a timeshare, resale or from the developer, and get a third party appraisal of the units worth, at least in terms of rental rates.

The 2 weeks I turned in got 2.53 times the MF and 3.61 times the MF worth of RW Points.  This is an awesome statistic that has not existed before 2 weeks ago.  A person can submit a week for valuation to RW and find out just how much the week commands in rental value.

Now statistics can start to be built as to the worth of a timeshare to generate those rentals.  In one case I paid 2.11 times the RW rental rate to buy it and in the other I paid 5.53 times as much to buy it.

Are these good numbers to know?  I sure as heck think so.  Will the developer start to quote their numbers when they are trying to sell you a unit?  Heck no.  Can you imagine this conversation:

“The $30,000 you pay for this fantastic week generates 1,000 RW Points and the MF is just $850.”

A database can now be kept for that unit – Purchase price to RW Points = 30 and RW Points ito MF s 1.17.

No more colors of the rainbow or colors of various metals (gold, silver, platinum) just RW Points – what a refreshing change.

I keep seeing a sea change starting here – others see imploding doom.  You need to decide yourself and time will then decide which is correct.


And the icing on the cake is that the developers are no better than you or I.  Don't you just love it - a level playing field.  No more 1 in 4 year exchanges no more 24 day special deals for certain folks - we are all equal.

P.S.
Gone are the “Mine’s bigger than yours”; you know the fish stories.

We now can compare a week 52 1BR ski week to a week 45 2BR in Maui – the rental rates tell all.  Throw in the MF and we now have awesome stats at our disposal.


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## Timeshare Von

Perhaps the supply & demand theory of economics is at play here.  I agree that it seems strange that Orlando and/or Williamsburg would be as highly valued as they are in RW.  With that being said, however, if they are highly sought after, especially by European traders, and there are none currently available in RW, they (RW) may find themselves overvaluing a tad to get folks trades they know others are looking for.  Then again, maybe the are smoking stuff.  Only time will tell on how it will work out, as someone else said.

I am curious about how they acquired so many weeks at Moness CC in Aberfeldy, Scotland in fall 2008.  We stayed there last fall and were challenged to find the week to piggyback with a week in England.  Maybe someone just owns that much there?


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## e.bram

Whether we are willing to admit it or not there are differences in the desirability between timeshares. It can be the resort itself(oceanfront), a particular unit with a nice view(oceanfront), size of the unit (1br, 2brs etc), and scarcity of accomodations in the area. Whether you distinguish them by color, type of metal or refuse to acknowledge the differance it is still is a difference. So, in RW system we l have more of the less desirable units chasing less of the more disirable units. Eventually you will have very few more desirable(red or platnium) deposited and the less desirable unit owners exchanging with other less desirable unit owners. RCI and II already does a good job of this with a huge inventory of these less desirable(they can't rent them)units available. SFX accomodates the owners of the more desirable units and still has problems satisfying some of its depositors. RW exchange program will never fly. They don't have enough inventory of less desirable units to satisfy less desirable unit owners because of the lack of inventory.


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## PerryM

e.bram said:


> Whether we are willing to admit it or not there are differences in the desirability between timeshares. It can be the resort itself(oceanfront), a particular unit with a nice view(oceanfront), size of the unit (1br, 2brs etc), and scarcity of accomodations in the area. Whether you distinguish them by color, type of metal or refuse to acknowledge the differance it is still is a difference. *So, in RW system we l have more of the less desirable units chasing less of the more disirable units.* Eventually you will have very few more desirable(red or platnium) deposited and the less desirable unit owners exchanging with other less desirable unit owners. RCI and II already does a good job of this with a huge inventory of these less desirable(they can't rent them)units available. SFX accomodates the owners of the more desirable units and still has problems satisfying some of its depositors. RW exchange program will never fly. They don't have enough inventory of less desirable units to satisfy less desirable unit owners because of the lack of inventory.




This makes no sense at all – literally.

I challenge you to find the word “Platinum” anywhere in the description of a RW exchange.  I can’t find one.  Same with “Red Week” – these don’t appear anywhere – so why bring up phrases that don’t appear in the first place?

The ONLY thing that matters is rental rates – and they can be brutal if someone has never rented a timeshare unit out.  Rental rates are separate from timeshare developer sales prices - two different markets.  Rental rates reflect ALL the know knowledge about a unit at that instant.

The major difference between RW and II and RCI is that RW is rental rate driven – could care less about the color of ownership (red,white,gold,platinum)  it means nothing to them.  

Many folks own too many timeshares or can’t use the ones they own now – they either let them expire worthless or try to rent them or deposit them in II or RCI and play that game – no idea what their unit is worth or what something costs – just the color of their unit – whoopee!

The Christmas ski week I deposited in RW was snapped up almost instantly – I put up a first class resort in a first class ski area at the best time of the year.  You now have confirmation that some folks will deposit top of the line units at the best times of the year.  I got almost the same identical number of RW Points as I have gotten in real rental income over 4 years.

Again I say that mixing old ideas of color of weeks has no meaning in a rental driven Points system – the rental rate adjusts for the size of unit, and time of year.  RW can even get into ocean front, ocean view, garden view – anything they want.  Heck they could charge extra for a penthouse top floor.  It’s their system and they are NOT limited by the old Week driven II and RCI systems.


----------



## joycapecod

I was offered 850 points for a 3 bedroom week 32 in Ireland. Granted the resort is nothing to write home about, but it is 3 bedroom and it is Ireland. I passed.

I was offered 1800 for my week 35 at Whitbarrown Village, a one bedroom. 

My week on Crete, Village Holiday Club, 1 bedroom, week 38 fetching 975, Village by the Gulf at Gulf Shores, Al, week 41, 3 bedroom at 1225, and a Sandcastle Provincetown Cape Cod studio at 667.

Not a thing they have interests me!

Joy


----------



## Carolinian

joycapecod said:


> I was offered 850 points for a 3 bedroom week 32 in Ireland. Granted the resort is nothing to write home about, but it is 3 bedroom and it is Ireland. I passed.
> 
> I was offered 1800 for my week 35 at Whitbarrown Village, a one bedroom.
> 
> My week on Crete, Village Holiday Club, 1 bedroom, week 38 fetching 975, Village by the Gulf at Gulf Shores, Al, week 41, 3 bedroom at 1225, and a Sandcastle Provincetown Cape Cod studio at 667.
> 
> Not a thing they have interests me!
> 
> Joy



Anyone trying to trade into Ireland in the summer, knows that the value quoted to you was absurdly low, especially for a 3BR.  Ireland is in the very limited availibility / very highly demanded category on the supply/demand table in the European version of the RCI Directory almost yearround, and an August week is peak season.  To say Orlando or Williamsburg is over twice as valued is just laughable.

I disagree with Perry.  They are not using refined rental rate data to track rental prices.  They are just shooting from the hip, and they aren't very good marksmen!  All of these weeks that come back with the exact same number just scream overaveraging.

From what I have seen they are more off base than even the corrupt numbers racket of RCI Points in setting values.

I think that this system is being launched by two outfits that simply lack anywhere close to enough data to get it right.  Unlike the outright corruption in RCI Points values, the flaws in the RW system reflect simply blundering around in the dark without enough data.  DAE's system is not based on valuing a week, so their data would tend to be of limited use.  As a listing service, all Redweek would have on rental rate data would be asking prices, not final negotiated prices or even necessarily if a rental was ever concluded from a listing.

That said, there are aspects of the RW system that could make a far more accurate and fair points system than that run by RCI, that is *IF* they can get the obvious and very serious bugs out of it.

One thing that will be interesting to me is to see numbers on the OBX.  Will they up the numbers for BIS-KH just because it is GC or will they track real local rental data and give it the lowest numbers on the OBX?


----------



## Phill12

PerryM said:


> Well, I deposited 2 weeks, both of which I’ve rented in the past, and got approximately the same number of RW Points-that's all I can expect to get on this end of the transactions.  Now I have 3 years to watch the new system and I’m sure I’ll snap up something.
> 
> 
> 
> Perry I have to admit you have guts or many units! I think I would maybe give RW one week  and try it but to give two weeks takes alot of faith!
> 
> I do hope Redweek trading works because for one thing Rci will lose members.
> 
> What I am wondering about is your choices when you decide to pick your vacations. Like you said someone grabbed one of your units right away. Its a good bet someone with low end trade paid extra to move up and get your unit that they could never trade for with their company!
> Will you be in a race every day to get your request or is there a list by dates you released your units to RW.
> 
> It would be very unfair for you not to have choice over me if I deposited my week two months after you and they were rated the same!
> 
> I do think this will be a gold mine for owners with white and blue weeks and low trade resorts because they can now pay extra and get five star. I just wonder what happens for us owners that own five star top traders. When you have all the low end resorts coming into the system and most of these owners wanting to get high traders then there are only going to be so many for trade.
> 
> Even the people like yourself that jump in right now to try will not stay when you find all you could get was lower traders!
> 
> No matter how good this turns out there will aways be a shortage at the top because every one on the site want a top unit. The people that bought one and expect to trade for one and the people that spent less money for off weeks now want the top traders.


----------



## PerryM

*Bitch and moan...*

I can see that many, hard core, timeshare folks are going to have a hard time understanding just what RW is offering.

If you use the terms “White”, “Blue”, “Green”, “Platinum”, “Gold” you are stuck in the old way of doing exchanges.  The legacy left by II and RCI where secret formulas and trading schemes rule the day.  Oh, don't forget being in the back pocket of the developers.


Let’s try something – I just deposited a 1,550 RW Point unit and you have a 550 RW Point unit – now the question is can you get to my deposit?  Of course not.  It doesn’t matter what the color of your unit is or the color of my unit – you lack the currency to make the exchange.

Now, I decide that your 550 RW Point unit is a great off season unit and I’d like to spend my currency and rent your week – done.  I now have 1,000 RW Points left.

Now I see my old ski week for 1,310 RW Points – can I exchange into it?  Of course I can; I have at least 50% of the required Points and pay RW $310 and I get the exchange (I’m leaving out the exchange fee here).

Basically, we will start to get a feel for a good week – 1,000 RW Points is probably getting to a great vacation – it might just be a 1BR in not quite a holiday week but maybe I only have 500 RW Points and will pay $500 to get it.

A unit costing 2,000 RW Points is now starting to approach a high end timeshare and at a holiday week.  2,500 RW Points is a high end timeshare at a holiday week.

See how easy this stuff is.

Now to those pontificating how wrong RW is – prove it.  Call up the resort and get some corroborating rental rates that prove RW wrong.  I don’t doubt that RW is run by humans and mistakes will be made – so who among us is perfect?

RW will offer 450 RW Point vacations and 4,000 RW Point vacations.  You can deposit 3 1,000 RW Point vacations and throw in $1,000 and get that 4,000 RW Point Vacation.

Just try doing that with II or RCI or RCI Points.

From my investigation RW has a fair system and is going thru the start up phase of a new venture.  I have 3 years to spend my RW Points and that could easily be for a reservation 10+ months out – so I have nearly 4 years to watch and wait for something that fits our vacation needs.  Will I settle for 1 luxurious vacation or 3 minor ones – that’s up to me and our vacation plans.


*Why folks bitch and moan for alternatives to II and RCI and then bitch and moan when one appears just convinces me that some folks just like to bitch and moan.*  See how easy this stuff is - it's just logic.

P.S.
I am not looking to do the II/RCI upgrade trick - it can't be done in this system.  I'm  looking to do a fair exchange and go to different locations.  Isn't that what exchanging is supposed to be all about?


----------



## PerryM

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> PerryM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I deposited 2 weeks, both of which I’ve rented in the past, and got approximately the same number of RW Points-that's all I can expect to get on this end of the transactions.  Now I have 3 years to watch the new system and I’m sure I’ll snap up something.
> 
> 
> 
> Perry I have to admit you have guts or many units! I think I would maybe give RW one week  and try it but to give two weeks takes alot of faith!
> 
> I do hope Redweek trading works because for one thing Rci will lose members.
> 
> What I am wondering about is your choices when you decide to pick your vacations. Like you said someone grabbed one of your units right away. Its a good bet someone with low end trade paid extra to move up and get your unit that they could never trade for with their company!
> Will you be in a race every day to get your request or is there a list by dates you released your units to RW.
> 
> It would be very unfair for you not to have choice over me if I deposited my week two months after you and they were rated the same!
> 
> I do think this will be a gold mine for owners with white and blue weeks and low trade resorts because they can now pay extra and get five star. I just wonder what happens for us owners that own five star top traders. When you have all the low end resorts coming into the system and most of these owners wanting to get high traders then there are only going to be so many for trade.
> 
> Even the people like yourself that jump in right now to try will not stay when you find all you could get was lower traders!
> 
> No matter how good this turns out there will aways be a shortage at the top because every one on the site want a top unit. The people that bought one and expect to trade for one and the people that spent less money for off weeks now want the top traders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a stock trader I've learned that patience can make a huge difference in your net worth at the end of the year.
> 
> RW does not have all the tools I'd like to see available to me to make this a fun experience.  I just believe they will implement the tools in the future.
> 
> So I, once again, put my money where my mouth is - I "invested" 2 weeks with them and hopefully will get vacations that match our needs.
> 
> How many years have folks been talking about alternatives to II and RCI?  If you sit this out, this one will be a failure and what other company is going to give it a try?  If you have spare units you might consider taking a gamble and showing that you are indeed willing to do something to end the strangle hold II and RCI have over us.
> 
> It's your choice - don't expect more choices in the future.
Click to expand...


----------



## "Roger"

PerryM said:


> SOFTBALLDAD3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...How many years have folks been talking about alternatives to II and RCI?  If you sit this out, this one will be a failure and what other company is going to give it a try?  ...
> 
> 
> 
> It has been interesting to watch this from the sidelines, Perry.
> 
> Given the choice between wanting a viable alternative to RCI and II versus hating points, apparently it is more important to hate points. Even when there is a tie in with DAE, it is important enough to hate points to throw them under a bus. Redweek has gone from a decent resale company to being compared with the companies that require an upfront fee.
> 
> Looking at this as a case study in sociology, it have been fun to watch.
Click to expand...


----------



## PerryM

*Week V Point is really the topic here*



"Roger" said:


> PerryM said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been interesting to watch this from the sidelines, Perry.
> 
> Given the choice between wanting a viable alternative to RCI and II versus hating points, apparently it is more important to hate points. Even when there is a tie in with DAE, it is important enough to hate points to throw them under a bus. Redweek has gone from a decent resale company to being compared with the companies that require an upfront fee.
> 
> Looking at this as a case study in sociology, it have been fun to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very astute!
> 
> This is a great summary and explains much of the negative comments towards a 2 week old Point Based exchange system.  It really has nothing to do with RedWeek - it's scoring points in the old "Week V Point" skirmish that consumes so many here.
Click to expand...


----------



## e.bram

PerryM:
If RW is a point system, how come you can't deposit points?


----------



## e.bram

Roger:
Your probably right. RW is a another scheme on us weeks owners to convert our weeks into points. RCI and FF tried to do it to me and failed. I doubt if RW is going to lure many of us prime weeks owners to convert to points(any kind of points). It ain't going to work!!!


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> PerryM:
> If RW is a point system, how come you can't deposit points?



How come I can't "deposit" US Dollars, into the US currency system, and not go to prison?


The RW Point currency, which is 100% related to the US dollar must be generated one of two ways:

1) Deposit a unit, now it's limited to a timeshare, later condo-hotels?

2) Deposit US dollars but no more than 50% of an exchange.


RCI Points never took the realistic approach of tieing their Points to US dollars and that can ONLY be done by basing the entire exchange system on real rental rates that folks will pay to rent a unit.

P.S.
There will be instances where RW is offering substantially less than rental rates - they just don't want the unit.  If the rental rate for a 2BR in Bangladesh is $1,000 US they may only offer $300 since there is risk of not having a RW member reserve it.

There are 2 markets at work here 1) General civilian market 2) RW member's market.

These are two different markets and the further you move away from the US and get foreign currency markets involved, with some of their wild gyrations, the more risk and the lower the offer from RW for that unit.


----------



## Transit

Carolinian said:


> A 2BR prime beach week at half the points of an off season 2BR in overbuilt Orlando?????????   What are these guys smoking??????????  That will probably get them a lot of Orlando deposits but only a fool would deposit a beach week!


Your not looking at the big picture .Sure Orlando is overbuilt but it's still #1 timeshare destination in the world and Redweek dosen't have enough quality inventory there.At this time they are offering alot of points but when they get enough deposits they will probably offer less points.A 2 bedroom prime beach week at a quality resort would cause me to deposit but I haven't seen any at Redweek yet.


----------



## e.bram

Transit:
You probably won't see any prime beach weeks on RW, ever.
I can get 2 Pime Orlando weeks for by beach week and still won't deposit and that's a priori(search first).
RW offered me 1/2 the points for my prime 2br Aug week(oceanfront unit).
I think they forgot to take their medication or hoped I forgot to take mine. I didn't.


----------



## PerryM

Transit said:


> Your not looking at the big picture .Sure Orlando is overbuilt but it's still #1 timeshare destination in the world and Redweek dosen't have enough quality inventory there.At this time they are offering alot of points but when they get enough deposits they will probably offer less points.A 2 bedroom prime beach week at a quality resort would cause me to deposit but I haven't seen any at Redweek yet.




RW should NEVER offer more than the going rental rate to an owner.  This is equivalent to the resort demanding more than their published rates.

They can, however, offer less than the rental rate if they have doubts to some RW owner exchanging.  An example would be a unit that has been deposited and no one has exchanged into it.  RW should offer less for the next unit deposited - or might decline it entirely.

RW should, in all cases, post the RW Points that were given to the owner of the unit.  There should NEVER be a case where RW made a profit, in terms of RW Points, on an exchange.


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> Transit:
> *You probably won't see any prime beach weeks on RW, ever.*
> I can get 2 Pime Orlando weeks for by beach week and still won't deposit and that's a priori(search first).
> RW offered me 1/2 the points for my prime 2br Aug week(oceanfront unit).
> I think they forgot to take their medication or hoped I forgot to take mine. I didn't.




I don't see where you can speak for every timeshare owner who has a prime beach week.

I can see, because of scheduling conflicts, the owner is faced with the choice of renting the unit out for cash or click a few buttons and deposit the unit in RW.

As I've stated before if someone has proof that RW is in error on a rental rate publish the proof here and contact RW to inform them.  They might have a very good reason to offer 50 cents on the rental dollar - I can only guess.

If enough folks can supply proof that RW is not offering fair compensation then that will start their slide towards the RCI Points fiasco.  Maybe that is a secret desire on their part but from what I've read the owners of RW are sharp cookies and could be guilty of startup glitches that will be fixed.


----------



## Transit

e.bram said:


> Transit:
> You probably won't see any prime beach weeks on RW, ever.
> I can get 2 Pime Orlando weeks for by beach week and still won't deposit and that's a priori(search first).
> RW offered me 1/2 the points for my prime 2br Aug week(oceanfront unit).
> I think they forgot to take their medication or hoped I forgot to take mine. I didn't.



If this is a true prime beach week I would get someone on the phone to reconcider the points they valued your unit.They are seriouly lacking in inventory and although is a new system not many people will take the first dive without some decent startup inventory.


----------



## Transit

PerryM said:


> RW should NEVER offer more than the going rental rate to an owner.  This is equivalent to the resort demanding more than their published rates.


 They need some incentive for iventory. How will they get off the ground if no one deposits.If not offering more than the going rate they need to offer bonus weeks or some other incentives to get people to depost.I would love to see this thing work but I think they really needed to start with some kind of a start up inventory .


----------



## e.bram

Why should I educate RW. They should know the various timeshares inside out before going into the exchange business. Very unusual business paradigm, try to bootstrap(very little cash investment) and not intimately knoledgable about the product. Sure to fail.(or hope for a lottery winner or miracle)


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> *Why should I educate RW. They should know the various timeshares inside out before going into the exchange business.* Very unusual business paradigm, try to bootstrap(very little cash investment) and not intimately knoledgable about the product. Sure to fail.(or hope for a lottery winner or miracle)



See, I'm assuming they do know what they are doing - their offer was fair for the current circumstances.

Unless shown solid proof, like links to rental sites and the resort itself with a phone number to call or web page to verify, I side with RW on this matter.

I have no doubt that discrepancies will be found, it's the explanation from RW that will be very interesting to hear.


----------



## DeniseM

They offered me 1,067 points for a 1 bdm. Kingsbury Crossing (Tahoe) New Year's week.  It's a mid-level resort, so that's probably in the ballpark for what I could rent it for.

I asked for 6 different valuations and only one came back - it doesn't show any others "pending," when I look at my account.  I wonder if I should send them again?

I was just using my back arrow to go back and add new valuation requests and apparently that doesn't work - they weren't going through, they were just replacing the previously submitted request, and only the last one was processed.  I found that I had to navigate away from the page and then come back, to get additional request to go through.


----------



## e.bram

PerryM:
You can side with RW and I will not deposit my prime Aug oceanfront(all rooms) 2br  week, nor will anyone else with a similar week. to wit The proof of this is there are none shown in RW inventory, The proof of the pudding is in the eating not in pontificating.


----------



## PerryM

DeniseM said:


> They offered me 1,067 points for a 1 bdm. Kingsbury Crossing (Tahoe) New Year's week.  It's a mid-level resort, so that's probably in the ballpark for what I could rent it for.
> 
> I asked for 6 different valuations and only one came back - it doesn't show any others "pending," when I look at my account.  I wonder if I should send them again?
> 
> I was just using my back arrow to go back and add new valuation requests and apparently that doesn't work - they weren't going through, they were just replacing the previously submitted request, and only the last one was processed.  I found that I had to navigate away from the page and then come back, to get additional request to go through.





e.bram said:


> PerryM:
> You can side with RW and I will not deposit my prime Aug oceanfront(all rooms) 2br  week, nor will anyone else with a similar week. to wit The proof of this is there are none shown in RW inventory, *The proof of the pudding is in the eating not in pontificating.*



Denise,

I'd put them thru again.  I did my 2 separated by 1 day.


e.bram,

Certainly your decision to not act is perfectly ok - I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

However, the greatest aspect of what RW is doing is that it is 100% transparent on their part.  You submit a unit and they give you an offer.  If you don't like the offer you have several choices:

1) Ignore it
2) Demand to find out why the rental rates you can verify are not what they are offering

I'd pick #2 myself but since both my offers were 100% spot on I accepted their offer and did not pursue it further.

I can't think of one sane reason why they would NOT want to offer a fair value - what on earth would cause them to start a system and screw the folks depositing the units?

Their job is to make be a 3rd party to the folks involved with the exchanges - it would be insane on their part to favor one side over the other in an exchange.

P.S.
Think of RCI and their egregious act of allowing a 4th party to enter into the transaction - the developer.  The developer demands that you can't exchange into a resort only once in 3 or 4 years and RCI enforces this - good grief.


----------



## Carolinian

How transparent is the system when a resort asks for the current points table for their resort and Redweek doesn't provide it?  That happened.  If this thing really is dynamic, and I have my doubts about that, all they have to say is that the table is illustrative numbers for a particular day, and show deductions or additions for early or late deposits.  Yet they refused to provide anything at all.

I am not putting down the POTENTIAL of the RW system.  There are aspects that COULD make it the fairest point system out there.  It is the EXECUTIION that really seems to be lacking.

I once thought about renewing my expired RW membership just to check out some of their numbers, but from what I see posted here, I am not going to waste my time.


----------



## Carolinian

Timeshare Von said:


> Perhaps the supply & demand theory of economics is at play here.  I agree that it seems strange that Orlando and/or Williamsburg would be as highly valued as they are in RW.  With that being said, however, if they are highly sought after, especially by European traders, and there are none currently available in RW, they (RW) may find themselves overvaluing a tad to get folks trades they know others are looking for.  Then again, maybe the are smoking stuff.  Only time will tell on how it will work out, as someone else said.
> 
> I am curious about how they acquired so many weeks at Moness CC in Aberfeldy, Scotland in fall 2008.  We stayed there last fall and were challenged to find the week to piggyback with a week in England.  Maybe someone just owns that much there?



If you look at postings on the RW site, it doesn't appear that they have that many European members.

The Moness weeks are probably access to DAE inventory.


----------



## Carolinian

Something that is not in general circulation and issued by a government is not a currency.  Do I need to post the definition from Black's Law Dictionary again?  A point may be a coupon or a voucher or the like, but it is not a currency.  It is usable only in the company store not in general circulation.

A Modovan leu is a currency.  A RW point is not!

Also, has RW posted anything that said they are setting their values based on rental rates or is that someone's speculation on these boards????  If they have posted it, please give us a link.  Otherwise, admit that it is just speculation.

As far as RW being way off base on their numbers, there is more that enough evidence of that is this thread.

I would be curious to see the results if someone ran a similar size same week number at BIS-Kitty Hawk, BIS-Duck, OBBC II, and Dunes South through RW's system.  OBBCII is the highest demand resort on the OBX rental market, and should have the highest numbers if it is based on rental values.  BIS-Kitty Hawk is the lowest demand resort on the OBX rental market, because it is the farthest off the beach and should have the  lowest numbers.  BIS-Duck and Dunes South should be slightly less than OBBCII but significantly higher than BIS-Kitty Hawk.  If it comes in any different, they aren't basing numbers on the rental market!




PerryM said:


> I can see that many, hard core, timeshare folks are going to have a hard time understanding just what RW is offering.
> 
> If you use the terms “White”, “Blue”, “Green”, “Platinum”, “Gold” you are stuck in the old way of doing exchanges.  The legacy left by II and RCI where secret formulas and trading schemes rule the day.  Oh, don't forget being in the back pocket of the developers.
> 
> 
> Let’s try something – I just deposited a 1,550 RW Point unit and you have a 550 RW Point unit – now the question is can you get to my deposit?  Of course not.  It doesn’t matter what the color of your unit is or the color of my unit – you lack the currency to make the exchange.
> 
> Now, I decide that your 550 RW Point unit is a great off season unit and I’d like to spend my currency and rent your week – done.  I now have 1,000 RW Points left.
> 
> Now I see my old ski week for 1,310 RW Points – can I exchange into it?  Of course I can; I have at least 50% of the required Points and pay RW $310 and I get the exchange (I’m leaving out the exchange fee here).
> 
> Basically, we will start to get a feel for a good week – 1,000 RW Points is probably getting to a great vacation – it might just be a 1BR in not quite a holiday week but maybe I only have 500 RW Points and will pay $500 to get it.
> 
> A unit costing 2,000 RW Points is now starting to approach a high end timeshare and at a holiday week.  2,500 RW Points is a high end timeshare at a holiday week.
> 
> See how easy this stuff is.
> 
> Now to those pontificating how wrong RW is – prove it.  Call up the resort and get some corroborating rental rates that prove RW wrong.  I don’t doubt that RW is run by humans and mistakes will be made – so who among us is perfect?
> 
> RW will offer 450 RW Point vacations and 4,000 RW Point vacations.  You can deposit 3 1,000 RW Point vacations and throw in $1,000 and get that 4,000 RW Point Vacation.
> 
> Just try doing that with II or RCI or RCI Points.
> 
> From my investigation RW has a fair system and is going thru the start up phase of a new venture.  I have 3 years to spend my RW Points and that could easily be for a reservation 10+ months out – so I have nearly 4 years to watch and wait for something that fits our vacation needs.  Will I settle for 1 luxurious vacation or 3 minor ones – that’s up to me and our vacation plans.
> 
> 
> *Why folks bitch and moan for alternatives to II and RCI and then bitch and moan when one appears just convinces me that some folks just like to bitch and moan.*  See how easy this stuff is - it's just logic.
> 
> P.S.
> I am not looking to do the II/RCI upgrade trick - it can't be done in this system.  I'm  looking to do a fair exchange and go to different locations.  Isn't that what exchanging is supposed to be all about?


----------



## Elan

Although I am intrigued by RW's new exchange system (woefully disappointed by RCI's implementation of Points), I think it may be doomed to fail until they establish some type of incentive to deposit prime weeks.  As hokey as it sounds, at least I know I can always get some Disney passes or airfare from my RCI Points.  As it stands now, I may be able to get 1500+ RW points for my prime week deposit, but if there's nothing I want in inventory, and there's no underlying residual value to the RW points, they'll never get my week.  IMHO, this issue needs to be addressed ASAP, while we're all still interested in their system.  If they wait too long I fear they will have missed a golden opportunity to possibly revolutionize exchanging.

                                 JMHO,
                                          Jim


----------



## irish

have been following the discussion and submitted my resorts for point evaluation today. will see what they come back with. now, my question is will the RW exchange be "recognized" by the the resorts as being legitament? do you think they can turn exchangers away when they try to check in because the xchange didn't come from one of the recognized companies?
as for me, right now RW has nothing i want to exchange for. i do have 3 units for rent right now on RW and have had some inquiries as to 2 and have rented 1. who know, if one of the 2 doesn't rent(my affilitated RCI unit) i just may give it to RW as i don't belong to RCI and have no plans on joining same.my other, a marriott, i will just exchange for reward points if it doesn't rent.
i do see RW, however, as being a good alternative to having to spend $3000.00 to convert my resort to RCI points. that's just highway robbery by the resorts when  RCI  CHARGES $199.00 for the conversion. i do hope more t/s owners become aware of the RW exchange alternative so that more inventory is acquired for exchange. this just might be the kick in the a** that the BIG companies(RCI) deserve.


----------



## DeniseM

irish said:


> my question is will the RW exchange be "recognized" by the the resorts as being legitament?



I don't know why they wouldn't - there are all kinds of other independent exchange companies, besides RCI & II.  



> do you think they can turn exchangers away when they try to check in because the xchange didn't come from one of the recognized companies?



That is all taken care of in advance - the exchange company notifies the resort with their documentation of the exchange before the guest arrives.


----------



## BocaBum99

Carolinian said:


> Something that is not in general circulation and issued by a government is not a currency.  Do I need to post the definition from Black's Law Dictionary again?  A point may be a coupon or a voucher or the like, but it is not a currency.  It is usable only in the company store not in general circulation.
> 
> A Modovan leu is a currency.  A RW point is not!
> 
> Also, has RW posted anything that said they are setting their values based on rental rates or is that someone's speculation on these boards????  If they have posted it, please give us a link.  Otherwise, admit that it is just speculation.
> 
> As far as RW being way off base on their numbers, there is more that enough evidence of that is this thread.
> 
> I would be curious to see the results if someone ran a similar size same week number at BIS-Kitty Hawk, BIS-Duck, OBBC II, and Dunes South through RW's system.  OBBCII is the highest demand resort on the OBX rental market, and should have the highest numbers if it is based on rental values.  BIS-Kitty Hawk is the lowest demand resort on the OBX rental market, because it is the farthest off the beach and should have the  lowest numbers.  BIS-Duck and Dunes South should be slightly less than OBBCII but significantly higher than BIS-Kitty Hawk.  If it comes in any different, they aren't basing numbers on the rental market!



I don't agree with the Black's Dictionary definition of a currency.  But that's irrelevant.  

What is important is not the definition.  What IS important is whether or not it acts like a currency.  Because if it does, then you can use basic economic theory to predict what will happen to it.

One key concept is a Gold Standard and another one is inflation.  Both of the concepts are important to understanding what is going on with Redweek points.  

Redweek points are not based on anything, like the USD.  If you want to convert out of the point system, you can only do so by taking something out that was deposited.  If there was an exchange rate into USD out of the point system, then it would in essence be a currency and tied to the USD.

Second, Redweek can easily print more money by granting more points later for the same inventory.  That is an attribute of currencies that needs to be managed in the system.   There are no visible controls on points inflation.  so, I won't trust the system until it gets a track record of managing it effectively.

These are just two of the reasons I won't be deposting weeks into Redweek.  If they gave me a really high point value for one of my weeks and I saw something I could grab inexpensively, then I would do it.  I suspect there are a lot of fense sitters like me.


----------



## BocaBum99

irish said:


> have been following the discussion and submitted my resorts for point evaluation today. will see what they come back with. now, my question is will the RW exchange be "recognized" by the the resorts as being legitament? do you think they can turn exchangers away when they try to check in because the xchange didn't come from one of the recognized companies?
> as for me, right now RW has nothing i want to exchange for. i do have 3 units for rent right now on RW and have had some inquiries as to 2 and have rented 1. who know, if one of the 2 doesn't rent(my affilitated RCI unit) i just may give it to RW as i don't belong to RCI and have no plans on joining same.my other, a marriott, i will just exchange for reward points if it doesn't rent.
> i do see RW, however, as being a good alternative to having to spend $3000.00 to convert my resort to RCI points. that's just highway robbery by the resorts when  RCI  CHARGES $199.00 for the conversion. i do hope more t/s owners become aware of the RW exchange alternative so that more inventory is acquired for exchange. this just might be the kick in the a** that the BIG companies(RCI) deserve.




Out of all the issues raised, this is the one I am NOT concerned about.  That is because DAE has been doing it for a while and there are conventions in CARE that take care of it.  There are always potential issues, but DAE is good at resolving them. DAE is doing the pressing and cleaning of inventory.  Not Redweek.  So, travellers should be okay.


----------



## PerryM

*$15 and they can get some answers...*



Carolinian said:


> *How transparent is the system when a resort asks for the current points table for their resort and Redweek doesn't provide it? * That happened.  If this thing really is dynamic, and I have my doubts about that, all they have to say is that the table is illustrative numbers for a particular day, and show deductions or additions for early or late deposits.  Yet they refused to provide anything at all.
> 
> I am not putting down the POTENTIAL of the RW system.  There are aspects that COULD make it the fairest point system out there.  It is the EXECUTIION that really seems to be lacking.
> 
> I once thought about renewing my expired RW membership just to check out some of their numbers, but from what I see posted here, I am not going to waste my time.



*Bravo for RW - screw the resort/developer.*  If the resort/developer want's to know a unit's RW Point worth they can pay to become a member - $15 wow!

They can then submit a request - however if they don't have one to exchange are they acting unethically?  It's one thing for a private owner to ask about a potential unit's worth, it's quite another to ask for 52 weeks of rentals.

This is proprietary information and the resort/developer are NOT part of this exchange!  If they don't know what to charge in rent why should RW supply them with that info?

Currency:
Who cares what the definition of currency is in this chat room?  Ask the folks who were part of the USSR what a currency backed by lawyers and politicians means to them.


----------



## PerryM

Carolinian said:


> Something that is not in general circulation and issued by a government is not a currency.  Do I need to post the definition from Black's Law Dictionary again?  A point may be a coupon or a voucher or the like, but it is not a currency.  It is usable only in the company store not in general circulation.
> 
> A Modovan leu is a currency.  A RW point is not!
> 
> *Also, has RW posted anything that said they are setting their values based on rental rates or is that someone's speculation on these boards????  If they have posted it, please give us a link.  Otherwise, admit that it is just speculation.*
> 
> As far as RW being way off base on their numbers, there is more that enough evidence of that is this thread.
> 
> I would be curious to see the results if someone ran a similar size same week number at BIS-Kitty Hawk, BIS-Duck, OBBC II, and Dunes South through RW's system.  OBBCII is the highest demand resort on the OBX rental market, and should have the highest numbers if it is based on rental values.  BIS-Kitty Hawk is the lowest demand resort on the OBX rental market, because it is the farthest off the beach and should have the  lowest numbers.  BIS-Duck and Dunes South should be slightly less than OBBCII but significantly higher than BIS-Kitty Hawk.  If it comes in any different, they aren't basing numbers on the rental market!



They have not stated so, neither have II/RCI published their definitions of trading power that many of us can easily form a good guesstimate.

RW is doing what other exchange companies do - ground their operations in an external reference point that reflects dynamic supply and demand.  Here is another exchange company that uses rental rates but doesn't say so: R2R.

In both cases it took me 10 minutes to figure out what they were basing their Points on.  Maybe I assumed too much that others would instantly see it too.

I see no evidence, like links and phone numbers to call that indicate RW is not close to rental numbers.  Show me some links.

My 2 exchanges were within a few bucks of what I have gotten in real rental income in past years - I'm convinced.


----------



## BocaBum99

PerryM said:


> Currency:
> Who cares what the definition of currency is in this chat room?  Ask the folks who were part of the USSR what a currency backed by lawyers and politicians means to them.



That's a good point.  I think that many people would take Disney tickets as a trade currency over some of these so called foreign currencies.  Heck, I may even take Disney tickets over the USD given how much it has been depreciating in value in the past few years.


----------



## e.bram

Nobody mentioned this so far. Can the RW exchanges be rented or retraded with II,RCI, SFX or other exchange company?


----------



## e.bram

PerryM:
I would rather have US dollars than RW points anyday of the week.


----------



## DeniseM

e.bram said:


> Nobody mentioned this so far. Can the RW exchanges be rented or retraded with II,RCI, SFX or other exchange company?



What exchange company does allow their exchanges to be rented or deposited???


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> Nobody mentioned this so far. Can the RW exchanges be rented or retraded with II,RCI, SFX or other exchange company?



NO!  I hope that's what RW's fine print states.




e.bram said:


> PerryM:
> I would rather have US dollars than RW points anyday of the week.



The problem I have with getting the same number of US dollars versus RW Points is that Uncle Sam wants to take 25% of my revenue.  So far he has stayed out of timeshare exchanges - but are they just a form of barter?  If so, he wants part of that action too.

Basically I'm looking at getting a 25% boost in our vacations when I don't have to use the US dollar as currency.  Long live the RW Point!!!


----------



## Carolinian

e.bram said:


> PerryM:
> I would rather have US dollars than RW points anyday of the week.



I would also rather have Moldovan lei, which last time I checked had actually gained on the US dollar (but then most currencies are doing that these days) than RW points.


----------



## PerryM

BocaBum99 said:


> That's a good point.  I think that many people would take Disney tickets as a trade currency over some of these so called foreign currencies.  Heck, I may even take Disney tickets over the USD given how much it has been depreciating in value in the past few years.



Not many folks realize that you can lock in the cost of mailing a first class letter for the rest of time!!!

Here is the link to the Forever Stamp

So if you are in need of buying stamps ask for this one - is costs the same, 41 cents right now.  You can pass on those stamps to your heirs, just like a timeshare 

Long live the Forever Stamp!


----------



## e.bram

PerryM:
Cash is KING. 
With bucks you can great deals from II, RCI and SFX extra vacations, Sky Auction etc. Probably get 3 or 4 to 1. And you are liquid.
The IRS is not interested in your TS deals, cash or otherwise.


----------



## Carolinian

PerryM said:


> They have not stated so, neither have II/RCI published their definitions of trading power that many of us can easily form a good guesstimate.
> 
> RW is doing what other exchange companies do - ground their operations in an external reference point that reflects dynamic supply and demand.  Here is another exchange company that uses rental rates but doesn't say so: R2R.
> 
> In both cases it took me 10 minutes to figure out what they were basing their Points on.  Maybe I assumed too much that others would instantly see it too.
> 
> I see no evidence, like links and phone numbers to call that indicate RW is not close to rental numbers.  Show me some links.
> 
> My 2 exchanges were within a few bucks of what I have gotten in real rental income in past years - I'm convinced.



Hey, I am the one asking you to show me some links to verify the conclusion you have made in 10 minutes based on two examples.  You haven't! There are more examples in this thread that disprove your theory.

As to basing values on dynamic supply and demand, yes there are weeks-based exchange systems that do just that, but the frozen numbers of most points-based systems can hardly come anywhere close to doing that.  One of the things I have suggested that gives RW the *POTENTIAL* to become the fairest and most honest points system out there is that they do not use a paper and ink system to publish their points numbers, which is what calcifies most points systems.  That creates the *opportunity*  for dynamic pricing, although it is way too early to say they are or will be doing that.  The best we can do is keep our fingers crossed.  They may just be not using paper and ink to cut down on costs, after all.

I would really like to see a RW chat over at TS4MS.  Maybe that would produce some real answers rather than conjecture.


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> PerryM:
> Cash is KING.
> With bucks you can great deals from II, RCI and SFX extra vacations, Sky Auction etc. Probably get 3 or 4 to 1. And you are liquid.
> *The IRS is not interested in your TS deals, cash or otherwise*.






Ohhh, I would not shout that too loud.

P.S.
I am VERY happy to pay my taxes on my timeshare rental income.  Very happy - I have no complaints, in fact I smile all the way to the post office to pay those taxes.  I am one content citizen in paying his taxes.


----------



## PerryM

Carolinian said:


> Hey, *I am the one asking you to show me some links to verify the conclusion you have made in 10 minutes based on two examples.  You haven't! There are more examples in this thread that disprove your theory.*
> 
> As to basing values on dynamic supply and demand, yes there are weeks-based exchange systems that do just that, but the frozen numbers of most points-based systems can hardly come anywhere close to doing that.  One of the things I have suggested that gives RW the *POTENTIAL* to become the fairest and most honest points system out there is that they do not use a paper and ink system to publish their points numbers, which is what calcifies most points systems.  That creates the *opportunity*  for dynamic pricing, although it is way too early to say they are or will be doing that.  The best we can do is keep our fingers crossed.  They may just be not using paper and ink to cut down on costs, after all.
> 
> I would really like to see a RW chat over at TS4MS.  Maybe that would produce some real answers rather than conjecture.




This is like asking for proof when a jury arrives at a verdict based upon circumstantial evidence – show me the hard proof; it doesn’t exist and that doesn’t stop them from arriving at a verdict.

There is but only ONE way of arriving at exchange rates – rental rates.  I can’t think of another one.

RCI Points has a squirrely Point system that creates numbers out of thin air.  Underneath all those wacky RCI points is a calendar based upon rental rates.  Now they might multiply each US dollar by 20 to come up with their squirrely RCI Point but I know of no other way of doing this.

The other way to look at this is so simple it hurts to even bring it up.  RW has been acting as a place where renters and landlords get together for years – they have a fantastic data base of past rental rates.  This has got to be a foundation they can turn to.

If RW uses rental rates they can easily create the worth of a unit from their own historical database, Orbitz, Yahoo, local real estate agents – the list is long to come up with an accurate rental rate.

Why on earth use some other wacky measurement?

I’ve show another exchange company that folks there all know is based upon daily rental rates – they seem to instinctively understand that.

So there is the circumstantial evidence.  

If some of you want to base the RW Points on something else go right ahead; it’s a free country.



Somebody show me another way to allow exchanges for timeshares, condo-hotels, fractional weeks, whole-ownership units.  I'd like to know how it can be done without rental rates.

P.S.
Forgot the most important circumstantial piece of evidence - you can substitute US dollars for RW Points (up to 50% of rental) - this can ONLY be done when the other 50% is based upon US dollars.

RW will take those US dollars spent to upgrade and turn around and buy reservations from other RW members who have them up for rent or had them up in prior years.  They have not stated this but to maintain the integrity of their exchange network they need to do this.  They are expecting to pay a fair rental rate to someone to get those reservations - the going rental rate.


QED.


----------



## Carolinian

As I have previously pointed out, Perry, RW's database is only of _asking prices_ for rentals, not actual negotiated rates when the smoke clears or whether there was even a succesful rental at all.

Also supply and demand for *exchange* weeks may not have anything at all to do with whether the area has a well established timeshare rental market.  Fortunately for OBX owners, our area does have a well established timeshare rental market, and that has nothing to do with RW.  It is the result of building a local business by the late Marvin Beard.

Since you are a RW member, maybe you can check out the OBX examples I gave.  That would tell a whole lot about how close to rental patterns the RW system is.

I also note that the same exact number came back for a major holiday week and an offseason week at the same resort according to posts in this thread.  This doesn't smack of a nimble and accurate system, but to the contrary of overaveraging, something all too common in points systems.  IMHO opinion, RW has a platform that has the *POTENTIAL* to get them past the overaveraging problem that points systems are prone to, but they are clearly not surmounting that problem at this juncture, and who knows if they will in the future.  We will just have to keep our fingers crossed and stay tuned!


----------



## DeniseM

*More valuations*

Sheraton Desert Oasis, 1 bdm., Easter week - 1,914

Kauai Beach Villas, 1 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,000
Kauai Beach Villas, 1 bdm., Christmas week - 2,000

Roark Vacation Resort (Branson) 1 bdm., Christmas week - 1,317

Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, studio, 4th of July week - 1,504
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, 1 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,201
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, 2 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,952
    (notice the difference splitting the lock-off makes!) 

Kingsbury Crossing (Tahoe) 1 bdm., New Years week - 1,067

Interesting....


----------



## e.bram

*TS Echanges are not really exchanges*

All the companies which call themselves TS exchanges are not truley exchanges. When you buy a stock you only pay a commission to the exchange. The exchange doesn't take posession of the property. In most real estate transactions the brokers don't take posession of the property. In both cases the the exchange facillitates the transaction. This is fair to both parties in the tranaction and brokers. What is needed is an exchange where all properties are listed with what would be suitable exchanges. This would accomodate all aspects of the TS including the location of the unit within the resort property, which all present systems ignore. Oceanside or gardenside, low floor or high  floor, street or park view verses dumpster view all impact(IMHO)  on unit value and are presently rarely considered. If such an exchange had enough inventory, this would be the most equitable concept possible.


----------



## Jya-Ning

I wonder how they will adjust the time value.  Say if I deposit my week 1 year before the travling starting day, it will be different then if I deposit it 8 weeks before the travling day.

In order for the TS exchange work, they have to take the deposit at a starting stage, which will means that there may have situation they have to discount the point value of a resort.  Really, if today I deposit a week and get 500 RW point, 1 week before the travel day, if my week has no taker, they still need to pay me my 500 credit.  Will they still list that week as 500 credit?  Or will it become 100 credit?  

I sure believe there is market that can support them to success.  But at their current size, they have to take the deposit instead of just be a pure trading broker.  Thus they have to take more risk when they evaluate the value.  And since they have only the asking price in their database, I don't know if they use their own true selling rate or using the fake selling rate which including all the post marked as sell but maybe using differnt source.  But it is a system that can allow continue change the value, and thus chance to reflect the true picture.

As to how DAE adjust, since at this moment, RCI points has claim no issue when ride on week side.  HGVC points has no issue when balance with RCI exchange, I doubt DAE will see problem to make balance at all.  After all, they do have quite a few inventory comes from their rental partner.

Jya-Ning


----------



## PerryM

DeniseM said:


> Sheraton Desert Oasis, 1 bdm., Easter week - 1,914
> 
> Kauai Beach Villas, 1 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,000
> Kauai Beach Villas, 1 bdm., Christmas week - 2,000
> 
> Roark Vacation Resort (Branson) 1 bdm., Christmas week - 1,317
> 
> *Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, studio, 4th of July week - 1,504
> Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, 1 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,201
> Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas, 2 bdm., 4th of July week - 2,952*    (notice the difference splitting the lock-off makes!)
> 
> Kingsbury Crossing (Tahoe) 1 bdm., New Years week - 1,067
> 
> Interesting....



Great Point! (That's a pun  )

Get valuations for the various combinations on your unit - your job is to get the most amount of RW Points.  In the above case, by locking off you get 753 more RW Points so expect many scraps to now appear.

This is not surprising since I see this all the time on eBay; the parts are worth more than the whole.

This is a very interesting problem:
A Westin owner is crazy to deposit a 2BR in II or for renting.  They rent/exchange one side and use the other.  How will RW try to attract 2BR units that now represent a fantastic bargain compared to the parts?

I don't know how they will address this problem; if they care at all.


----------



## PerryM

Carolinian said:


> As I have previously pointed out, Perry, RW's database is only of _asking prices_ for rentals, not actual negotiated rates when the smoke clears or whether there was even a succesful rental at all.
> 
> Also supply and demand for *exchange* weeks may not have anything at all to do with whether the area has a well established timeshare rental market.  Fortunately for OBX owners, our area does have a well established timeshare rental market, and that has nothing to do with RW.  It is the result of building a local business by the late Marvin Beard.
> 
> *Since you are a RW member, maybe you can check out the OBX examples I gave.  That would tell a whole lot about how close to rental patterns the RW system is.*
> 
> I also note that the same exact number came back for a major holiday week and an offseason week at the same resort according to posts in this thread.  This doesn't smack of a nimble and accurate system, but to the contrary of overaveraging, something all too common in points systems.  IMHO opinion, RW has a platform that has the *POTENTIAL* to get them past the overaveraging problem that points systems are prone to, but they are clearly not surmounting that problem at this juncture, and who knows if they will in the future.  We will just have to keep our fingers crossed and stay tuned!



I'm busy submitting actual units at the moment.  Maybe someone else can do a specific case.

We need to take something, I recommend a Marriott, and get rental rates.  With Marriott you can easily do a couple of clicks and get real rental rates that they want.

Hopefully I will have some numbers to report in a few days.


----------



## Judy

DeniseM said:


> I asked for 6 different valuations and only one came back - it doesn't show any others "pending," when I look at my account.  I wonder if I should send them again?



The same thing happened to me.  I emailed their customer service and received this reply,

"I only show that one valuation was submitted for your account.  If we received your valuations, they would show up
under "Your Account" in the "Your Timeshare Exchanges" section as either
"pending valuation" or one of the other categories if you've received an
offer or a rejection.

Please do re-submit."


----------



## PeelBoy

It is not surprising to see lock offs gets more points.

In Sunterra, I own x numbers of points, say 10,000, which is good enough for say a two bedroom.  If I book a one bed room and then a studio, I would need more than 10,000.  Fairfield is very similar.

Averaging is a must in all point systems.  If there are 52 point levels for 52 weeks, the system will become too sophisticated to operate and to comprehend.

RW point is fair, because if you don't like your offer, you can reject it.  RCI point once fixed is not flexible to adjust to future changes in supply and demand.

I am concerned about RW model:

1. Lock off scores higher points, so it is difficult for RW to attract two bedrooms.

2. 10 days after my deposit, I have not seen my week in the system.  Verification may take long, but if RW deliverately keeps prime weeks in hot locations for other purposes, we may not be aware of.  Again, trust is an issue for a new company.


----------



## DeniseM

PeelBoy said:


> 2. 10 days after my deposit, I have not seen my week in the system.  Verification may take long, but if RW deliverately keeps prime weeks in hot locations for other purposes, we may not be aware of.  Again, trust is an issue for a new company.



Maybe they were snapped up immediately?

The use year for the Kauai Beach Villas unit I just bought ends Sept. 1, we can't use it this year, and I've had no luck renting it, so I'm thinking about depositing it.  Right now, I see NO deposits for Hawaii - is that right?


----------



## e.bram

Just like DeniseM says, all RW will be getting is units people can't rent or use. Good luck RW Exchangers.


----------



## DeniseM

e.bram said:


> Just like DeniseM says, all RW will be getting is units people can't rent or use. Good luck RW Exchangers.



Actually - this is a very nice ocean front unit.  It's not junk.  We just bought it and we can't use it this year, but definitely will next year.


----------



## e.bram

DeniseM says "No luck renting it" . How desirable could it be? It's rent value is 0.00 so what should it's point value be according to RW guru PerryM?


----------



## ouaifer

e.bram said:


> DeniseM says "No luck renting it" . How desirable could it be? It's rent value is 0.00 so what should it's point value be according to RW guru PerryM?



Actually, this is a _*very desirable*_ Timeshare and the time of year is also very desirable!  

The point is since this was recently purchased, it could very well be there is nothing left in inventory for the remainder of the use year for Denise to reserve, and therefore be able to rent.  Pahio allows you to put reservations' requests in 14 months in advance.  However, if you want to bank a week (provided it is in weeks), you can take a week that has already gone by...provided Pahio still has some...and Pahio has already used...and so has RCI...and get use of an exchange through RCI 2 years beyond the original week's date.


----------



## DeniseM

e.bram said:


> DeniseM says "No luck renting it" . How desirable could it be? It's rent value is 0.00 so what should it's point value be according to RW guru PerryM?



The problem is that I just got the deed, but the use year expires Aug. 31, so we only have a small window for a rental.  I've had several people want to rent it for another date, but at this point, it's hard to change the reservation date.  

RW valued it at 2,000 points for a 2008 holiday week - I emailed them to find out what they would give me for an August deposit and we'll see what they say.  Either way, I'm sure if I deposit it with RW, it will be snapped up. 

What I don't understand is why some people are so *gleeful* about predicting that this new endeavour will fail?     It may, or it may not, - but at least it's a step in the right direction.  I would think that most Tuggers would hope it's a huge success.   I don't have a prediction, but I'm going to deposit at least one week with them and see what happens.   Wish me luck!


----------



## e.bram

*Good Luck You will need it.*

DeniseM:
Look at post#97. I already did.


----------



## DeniseM

e.bram said:


> DeniseM:
> Look at post#97. I already did.



Yes you did - thank you!    I will report back on how things go.  Since this is a last minute deal, I don't mind being the guinea pig!


----------



## e.bram

I look at thr RW exchange scheme. RW wants me to invest in their business by depositing in their system, hoping others will do the same so I can have a decent exchange instead of priming their system with exchanges they invested in.
I get 2 or 3 calls a day from companies who want me to invest in oiling drilling projects and motion pictures or other entertainment projects to make a fortune. When I ask to invest in the drilling companies or production companies(which are showing a profit)I get told that that stock is privately held and unavailable.
I look at RW the same way.


----------



## DeniseM

e.bram said:


> I get 2 or 3 calls a day from companies who want me to invest in oiling drilling projects and motion pictures or other entertainment projects to make a fortune.



You definitely need to get caller ID!


----------



## Carolinian

The weeks system can value each week seperately.  While some averaging may be useful and necessary, the problem with points systems in not necessarily just ''averaging'' but ''overaveraging''.  A good example is setting the same point value for a red mid-August beach week and a white mid-October week of the same size at the same resort as the corrupt numbers racket of RCI Points does.  That is just nuts!

While the RW platform would _allow_ dynamic pricing, can anyone point to anything they have said that indicates they are going to do this other than give more points for an earlier deposit (and BTW, what are the parameters of that?)? Is this just more speculation and wishful thinking?




PeelBoy said:


> It is not surprising to see lock offs gets more points.
> 
> In Sunterra, I own x numbers of points, say 10,000, which is good enough for say a two bedroom.  If I book a one bed room and then a studio, I would need more than 10,000.  Fairfield is very similar.
> 
> Averaging is a must in all point systems.  If there are 52 point levels for 52 weeks, the system will become too sophisticated to operate and to comprehend.
> 
> RW point is fair, because if you don't like your offer, you can reject it.  RCI point once fixed is not flexible to adjust to future changes in supply and demand.
> 
> I am concerned about RW model:
> 
> 1. Lock off scores higher points, so it is difficult for RW to attract two bedrooms.
> 
> 2. 10 days after my deposit, I have not seen my week in the system.  Verification may take long, but if RW deliverately keeps prime weeks in hot locations for other purposes, we may not be aware of.  Again, trust is an issue for a new company.


----------



## Carolinian

DeniseM said:


> What I don't understand is why some people are so *gleeful* about predicting that this new endeavour will fail?     It may, or it may not, - but at least it's a step in the right direction.  I would think that most Tuggers would hope it's a huge success.   I don't have a prediction, but I'm going to deposit at least one week with them and see what happens.   Wish me luck!



I, for one, do not wish that this system fails.  I wish they would get some of the very serious bugs out of it.  The platform has a lot more potential than RCI Points ever did, if RW takes full advantage of that, but the execution so far seems badly flawed.  One good thing is that they have not gummed up the works with non-timeshare goods and services like ''Points Partners''.  For those who want a points-based system, this one has the potential to be far superior to RCI's.  

The one concern is that like other points systems, it is using inventory from a weeks-based system to attract members.  This is probably of less concern than with RCI, as at least DAE is an independent actor and more likely to make certain its members interests are looked after.  There is nothing to indicate that the RW/DAE realtinship is like the rank unfairness of the relationship between RCI Points and RCI Weeks, particularly the fraudulent crossover grids.


----------



## BocaBum99

Carolinian said:


> There is nothing to indicate that the RW/DAE realtinship is like the rank unfairness of the relationship between RCI Points and RCI Weeks, particularly the fraudulent crossover grids.



Actually, I would disagree with this point.  I believe there is significant potential for RAIDING DAE weeks inventory with RW points.  In fact,  I believe it is more than potential, I believe it is highly likely.

I believe that RW points owners are raiding and will raid DAE online inventory.  They will not acknowledge it, but I believe strongly that it is happening.  The ironic thing is that when asked point blank how they address this issue, DAE claims its proprietary, just as you would expect from RCI.

What is my proof?

One strategy that a recent depositer has revealed to us is he will deposit one week worth over 2000 RW points and he intends to take 3 or 4 weeks out of the system.  Since it is mostly DAE inventory populating that exchange system, such depositers are raiding what really belongs to DAE weeks depositers.  This is raiding because DAE is a one-for-one exchange company.  If a RW customer deposits one week and takes out four, there are three extra weeks taken from DAE that isn't replaced.  In other words, it is raided.  On this point, DAE = RCI and they won't admit it.

Now, if they say that they know this is happening and they are using developer weeks from Australia to balance the books, then at least they have a logic that explains how a trade balance can be achieved.  But, those weeks would have normally gone to DAE customers, so once again, normal DAE customers get the short end of the stick.

It could be that RW is buying extra weeks and giving them back to DAE.  If that were the answer, then DAE remains whole and it is RW customers who are probably getting the short end of the stick.  It doesn't appear that RW has developer weeks.  Why would they get them?  They are a heavy promoter of resale weeks.  Once again, Developers prove their importance to the exchange game.


----------



## e.bram

DAE/RW can give American users Austrailian weeks, and Austrailians American weeks.Whether or not  they can use them. They can then give both users 3 or 4 weeks for 1 deposited, and take care of their lack of inventory problem. Sinple solution.


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## DeniseM

FYI - the latest RedWeek will take deposits is 70 days out.


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## PerryM

DeniseM said:


> FYI - the latest RedWeek will take deposits is 70 days out.



This is great news!

Enough time for folks to watch the airline rates and get something before 60 days out which I've seen the airlines stop discounting and start to raise the prices very fast.

I hope that as time goes on they update their web site to solidify their rules.

This probably means that RW will use the same rental rate as was used 365 days out - no need to have firesales.


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## PerryM

*Great exchange*

For those that ski/snowboard here is a great exchange at South Lake Tahoe, about 2 minutes from Heavenly's Stagecoach lift:

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P1986

*This is at the Ridge Tahoe:

Dec 22, 2007 - Dec 29, 2007 7 1,934 2 Bedroom 6 *

It's for Christmas and a 2BR.  I've been in the units and they are fantastic - 5-star/GC.

*Costs just 1,934 RW Points.*

*Here is a similar rental for $1,995* http://www.redweek.com/posting/R312028

That's a difference of $61 or just 3% difference between RW Points and US Dollars.


See there are great exchanges at top resorts at holiday times just waiting to be snapped up.


----------



## BocaBum99

PerryM said:


> For those that ski/snowboard here is a great exchange at South Lake Tahoe, about 2 minutes from Heavenly's Stagecoach lift:
> 
> http://www.redweek.com/resort/P1986
> 
> *This is at the Ridge Tahoe:
> 
> Dec 22, 2007 - Dec 29, 2007 7 1,934 2 Bedroom 6 *
> 
> It's for Christmas and a 2BR.  I've been in the units and they are fantastic - 5-star/GC.
> 
> *Costs just 1,934 RW Points.*
> 
> *Here is a similar rental for $1,995* http://www.redweek.com/posting/R312028
> 
> That's a difference of $61 or just 3% difference between RW Points and US Dollars.
> 
> 
> See there are great exchanges at top resorts at holiday times just waiting to be snapped up.



This is definitely a good exchange opportunity.  Now, all they need is 1000 more deposits like that and they've got something.


----------



## PerryM

*RW listen up!!!*

RW; you've got a supporter here in me.  However it took me just 15 minutes to get the following comparisons:



RW offered 2BR Marriott Summit Watch 4th of July week 2,321 RW Points; Marriott $1,694

RW offered 1BR Marriott Summit Watch 4th of July week 1,740 RW Points; Marriott $1,001

RW offered Marriott Studio Summit Watch 4th of July week 1,180 RW Points; Marriott $812

In the above case RW offered way too much over the Gold Summit Watch Marriott rental – about 38% - 74% too much.  This is bad for RW and good for us.  Notice that the Marriott 2BR is $1,694 which is only $118 less than the parts, or 7% less.  RW's 2BR was 21% less less than the parts; way too much difference.



RW offered 2BR Marriott MountainSide Christmas week 1,000 RW Points; Marriott $5,068

In this case the error was so egregious that I have no idea what happened – wrong MountainSide – there are a few – wrong week?


*RW you need to be much more accurate in your offers - the two examples above were grossly over bid and under bid.  Consistency and accuracy have got to be maintained!*

Of course in the Summit Watch case we will probably deposit and we don't own the Christmas MountainSide anymore and if anyone found me depositing a $5,000 week for 1,000 RW Points you can assume that I've been taken over by one of those aliens from outer space (one that's not into timeshares).

Although I will get 2,920 RW Points for a Marriott rental of $1,813 you paid me 61% too much.  You will never exchange those weeks - you are the one exposed here - you will have to cough up 1,107 RW Points at some point - you will have to pay $1,107 in hard cash out of your bottom line to do this- if you want to maintain the integrity of your system.  Reservations that spoil are on you - you made a mistake.  I don't know how many mistakes you are prepared to make like this.

Since our MF is about $1,000 now we are getting 2.92 times the MF in RW Points - not bad at all.  Since you can buy a Gold Summit Watch, like ours, for $6,000 that means in 2 years it has generated a rental value, at least in RW, equal to it's purchase price!!


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## BocaBum99

Perry,

Have you been following anything that anyone else has been writing?  This is what everyone has been saying all along.  Redweek doens't have a database of actual rentals across all resort and seasons.  They have a set of listings and a thumb they put into the air to assign values.

Everyone in the system is impacted by the mis assigned values.  You are at risk with your deposit.  Just wait until RW starts doubling the point values to attract new deposits.  Where does that leave you?


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## BocaBum99

accidental duplicate post.


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## PerryM

*Ahh, the sound of bacon sizzling…*



BocaBum99 said:


> Perry,
> 
> Have you been following anything that anyone else has been writing?  This is what everyone has been saying all along.  Redweek doens't have a database of actual rentals across all resort and seasons.  They have a set of listings and a thumb they put into the air to assign values.
> 
> Everyone in the system is impacted by the mis assigned values.  You are at risk with your deposit.  Just wait until RW starts doubling the point values to attract new deposits.  Where does that leave you?



Well, I've documented a proof positive of over/under offers.  So I now have 3 choices:

1) Keep what I have and wait for a under rental reservation and snap it up - do that for 3 years; I'm happy.
2) Wait on my Gold Summit Watch and hope for a Gold to Platinum upgrade in II like I've done twice already
3) Greed takes over and I become a Pig and deposit my unit and hope that RW get's more accurate in 3 years

Oink, oink, I know me 

P.S.
RW your reputation is being stained by your incompetence to get simple rental values - in the case of Marriott there is NO excuse - a simple click of the mouse and you can get Marriott's rental rates.

If this is too hard for you I will gladly subcontract out Marriotts - heck, I'll give you a discount and charge only $50 to look each one up.  I know, I know, I'm too nice of a guy.

P.P.S.
RW, please don’t tell us you hired some of the dummkopfs at RCI Points to work for you..


----------



## e.bram

All RW depositors:
If RW goes belly up where do you and your deposited weeks stand?


----------



## Jya-Ning

PerryM said:


> 3) Greed takes over and I become a Pig and deposit my unit and hope that RW get's more accurate in 3 years



What happen to "It is our responsibility to exploit the system?"

I thought you will deposit the Summit Watch week, and take the MountainSide Christmas week and tell Red week life is impefect, as trading go, there will have days like that :rofl:  And we as tug should prepare ourselves to take advantage of situation like that

Ooops, I think I read too many your posts and now become a big pig.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Jya-Ning

e.bram said:


> All RW depositors:
> If RW goes belly up where do you and your deposited weeks stand?



If you got your exchange in hand, do you care where your deposited weeks stand?  I do sometimes check, but that just me.  Plus, it is really hard to confirm if RCI's deposit is me or someone else.  It is much easy to check with DAE though.

Jya-Ning


----------



## e.bram

Jya-Ning:
Suppose you don't!


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> All RW depositors:
> If RW goes belly up where do you and your deposited weeks stand?



I take risks daily - I buy electronic gadgets costing $200 - $800 over the Internet from companies I've never dealt with before, all the time now.  I'd put RW in the same category.




Jya-Ning said:


> What happen to "It is our responsibility to exploit the system?"
> 
> I thought you will deposit the Summit Watch week, and take the MountainSide Christmas week and tell Red week life is impefect, as trading go, there will have days like that :rofl:  And we as tug should prepare ourselves to take advantage of situation like that
> 
> Ooops, I think I read too many your posts and now become a big pig.
> 
> Jya-Ning



I am still leaning to depositing our Gold Summit Watch - it generates a lot of RW Points - too many if you ask me.  But, I don't fight any system, or sue a system, or threaten legal action from District Attorneys or courts - I play the game according to the rules.

I still have 6 days to make a decision - I will continue to check timeshare units comparing rental rates to RW Points.  I am also going to ask RW why they are offering so many RW Points for my Gold Week - after I deposit it.


----------



## Jya-Ning

e.bram said:


> Jya-Ning:
> Suppose you don't!



Joke aside, IMHO, most people that ever exchange will care, and a great percent will like to see them success.  And if you use them (RW) as an Engine to rent or sell, you will want them to sucess also.

Personally, I like see exchange with different methods sucess, and I believe each one will find their unique aspect to make sucess.

However since a lot of good ideas does not translate to sucess, it is a concern to protect one's interest in this case when make his/her decision if deposit to RW or not.  Since DAE gives them some deposited inventories, there will be situations that it needs to make both end meet.  It will be a concern if you have deposit in DAE.  But in this case the inventory I give to DAE and they give to RW is for the request of DAE's holiday properties, I think DAE actaully makes itself more stable in this case.  And since quite few DAE's properties are in places where TS is not exists, I would believe that they can continue attract deposit.

I do like the idea that you need to exploit the system.  IMHO, you have to know the system.  That does not mean you can take the opportunity.  Just because it is 1,000 points does not mean you want to travel on X'Mas, or you will like the idea to spend the vacation there.  And even if you can take the opportunity, it does not mean you will actually take it.  But it will help you to protect yourselves. 

I like RW's idea to have an open system that somehow reflect the exchange value in their world.  I don't believe exchange world value will be exactly the same as renting world value, and I don't believe every owner will like to be a landlord.  I do believe their system can improve and will improve over time and truely reflect the value in their exchange world.  However, there will be different then renting world, and different then RCI's value, or II's value, or the value developer think their worth, or the value an owner thinks it worth.  And no matter how good they make their value system, you still has to deterime your own value system and that means there will always have opportunities.

As to potect one regarding deposit to RW, you can choose to get the vacation you want before you make deposit, you can choose to sit in the sideline until it becomes stable then test the water, you can choose to deposit something you can afford the loss to test it (in this case, you need to be trust them because maybe you have go through with them on the rental site or sell site?).  Since at this moment, I am tied to RCI and DAE, so it will be a while till I get to RW.

At this moment, I think RW is just a little more riskier then RCI.  But I believe anyone who know their site and willing to exchange with them will evaluate themselves, and are capable of doing so.  The difference between them and RCI is a lot of RCI members has no idea about TS, they just in because they bought a TS unit, and they may have too much hope in RCI because of the fancy selling.  Or they get use to the time when developer put in a lot of units.  When developer now goes to different system (in this case RCI point), suddenly it becomes another adjusting period.  Unfortuantely, unless you own the corp., you can not tell them not to move to a direction they think they can get more profits.  And you can not tell if they will success or fail.  Although I will believe if they are trying to success in the long run, they will try to do ethnic way.  All we can do is try to explore the system, and make sure we have the less possibility of lossing.  

In the long run, I do believe a point system will eventually replace 1 to 1 week system.  So, even if redweek failed, there will have another waves of improvement.  I believe their effort is a very positive impact to the overall industrial.

Jya-Ning


----------



## e.bram

Jya_Ning:
The point system may become the dominant system for timeshare. However a lot of weeks still exist in places where no TS will be built in the future. Even if those HOA allow conversion to some point system  the owners of the PRIME weeks will not convert and will not be available to those point systems(ie. FF/Wyndam, Inn Season etc.). Only the subprime weeks will convert and be available to the point owners which is of little advantage to those owners as thsy could always exchange subprime weeks for other subprime weeks.For instance my Cape Cod and Newport prime weeks will not convert to points although the resort has adopted a point system. 

The TS market is like the commercial bond market, because there are so many different types no exchange exists(as with  stocks). Bonds hve to be trade thru individual brokers witgout the transparency of the open stock exchange.

RW is really a weeks exchange using points to try to establish relative value of the deposited weeks available to exchange. Unfortunately the number of TS owners is small and as you pointed out the number of knowledgable TS owners is smaller yet. Add to to that evaporative nature of the inventory the task chosen seems to be impossible.

RW people are cited to be the originators of CLassmates.con. Howeve the pool of people that graduated from high school or college is enourmous compared to knowledgable TS owners.

If RW goes bankrupt the weeks become the property of the creditors and more than likley the depositors will get nothing.


----------



## Carolinian

Jya-Ning said:


> .
> 
> In the long run, I do believe a point system will eventually replace 1 to 1 week system.  So, even if redweek failed, there will have another waves of improvement.  I believe their effort is a very positive impact to the overall industrial.
> 
> Jya-Ning



Points systems started first (Hapimag), and the newer and superior weeks-based system is doing nicely and will continue to do so.  In fact, organizations like RCI have to cheat their weeks members to prop up their points systems.  That alone tells you which is fundamentally superior.  Let an entity like RCI Points try to survive without a weeks-based system to mooch off of!


----------



## Jya-Ning

Wow, talking about beat on a dead horse.



e.bram said:


> If RW goes bankrupt the weeks become the property of the creditors and more than likley the depositors will get nothing.



Don't know, does not study exchange company that well.  But isn't that the same case if DAE went out or if RCI went out today?  Now the question back to the same, if I deposit and made change immediately, and get confirmed before it down, is the confirmed week in their assets or is my exchange fee in their assets?  Come back another possibility, if today I made a deposit because I have no idea what to do with that week, and it is approaching expired, and I have no idea where I want go, then do I feel really, really bad if it is gone?

Not sure about bond either, but when I bought some from eTrade, I do see the sell offer and buy offer.  I don't see a complete offers from all possible source I guess  



Carolinian said:


> Points systems started first (Hapimag), and the newer and superior weeks-based system is doing nicely and will continue to do so.  In fact, organizations like RCI have to cheat their weeks members to prop up their points systems.  That alone tells you which is fundamentally superior.  Let an entity like RCI Points try to survive without a weeks-based system to mooch off of!



It is predict future, so I can guarantee you I will be right no more than 50%.  However, I believe RCI week has to give out AC before to get tiger week.  Now, here comes my questions, I deposit a tiger week, get an AC, then I use that tiger week to get another tiger week since my trading power is not reduced, guess what happen to that AC?  And does that help?  And what is the chance I will not try to get a tiger week with my tiger week deposit?

But if RCI dos not give out tiger week an AC, what will be the % people deposit a tiger week?  The same?

RW actually give out 2 concepts, 1) it assigns a point value to each week, so you can trade down, but you will loss your trading power, 2) it says you can pay extra in cash if your range is within a strike distance, or deposit more week.

Now, guess what it means if you assume RCI is an evil empire that blood on profit only?

I don't have problem to see week system and points system both exist for a while.

However, say avg. working people get 15 days vacation plus 10 day holiday.  If translate to week, it means they have no more than 5 week 7 day vacation.   However, a lot of people get 2 weekends, add 2 day on a weekend, that means 13 - 4 day vacation trips.  I believe in 2003 avg. owner has 1.6 weeks.  In 2006 avg. owner has close to 2 weeks value, guess what will trump in the end from sale's point?  Even week system allows owner to split week in half in a lot of system now.

I don't see end of week.  I think there will have enough people to eventually support both sides.  But I think at certain stage, either the whole way to sell a TS get to change, thus can get more owners, or the flexibility will trump, thus a week can not longer be merely a week, it will associate with something, and the exchange company will allow people to trade down or trade up and try to increase their profit more.

Either way, 1x1 week will not be very stable.  It is not stable at first beginning.  True, owner of the prime week does pay premium to get their week, but the developer will make wrong estimate on the value of the week.  The taste may change.  And more importantly, the value is based on the guess of market's chance of selling, which may not be the same as the value of usage.  And once set, it will never be able to change.  Your only hope is the exchange company can bail out.  Guess what, exchange company can not bail out unless someone willing to provide extra week.

Avg. Hotel occupancy rate is 60%.  Year after year, if the exchange company can no longer handle the extra week, that will be the foreclosure rate on the week timeshare resort.

If the owner keeping foreclose slowly, guess what will happen to the resort?

FF has made mistake on assessing the points.  So it will discount from time to time.   It is still not very stable, but it will be much better than a week base system.

I believe I have the best no more than 50% chance of guess the right result, but I don't believe 1x1 week will be the main stream.  And I truly believe a point based will trump them.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Carolinian

Let's look at fact rather than theory.

Hapimag came out of the gate with the first timeshares - a points based mini-system, never connected to any of the later exchange groups.  They do have nice resorts; I visited one of their newer ones on Castle Hill in Budapest a year or so ago.  But when the French developed the weeks-based system, Hapimag quickly became also-rans!

The start of the multi-developer points system for timeshare was in South Africa, where it was concocted by a former loan shark (or tallyman as they are called in SA), and several competing points clubs have been organized there.  But, guess what!, most SA timeshare is still weeks-based, in spite of being in the very cradle of multi-developer points systems.

Sunterra, and its European predecessor, GVC, have long sold ONLY points, not weeks, and agressively tried to convert their weeks members to points.
Interestingly, in the statistics on the Sunterra class action website, a solid majority of European Sunterra members are still weeks-based!  That clearly demonstrates the staying power of the weeks concept and the market resistance to points.

Shifting gears to theory, one of the reasons that points will always be secondary to weeks is that the majority of timesharers most places own to use rather than exchange.  While points may appeal to a niche market among some exchangers, it has little appeal at all to the dominate own-to-use group.


----------



## Jya-Ning

Carolinian said:


> Shifting gears to theory, one of the reasons that points will always be secondary to weeks is that the majority of timesharers most places own to use rather than exchange.  While points may appeal to a niche market of exchangers, it has little appeal at all to the dominate own-to-use group.



Assume it is right, that means the week base TS will never die.  But it also means a 1x1 week base exchange system will never success.  So eventually, the exchnge sysem has to be point base:hysterical: 

Jya-Ning


----------



## Jya-Ning

By the way, most mini-point system are created for the purpose of selling the product.  I believe there is less governed on these entity than developer selling a TS.  So it means it could be broken easily by a selling need.  Also, it means if anything happen to developer, you will expose to more risk.  And on the other side, developer now need to maintain the selling promise through some system that may not designed to fullfill a sale fantasy.  Beside, it always will be a fight over certain high demanding week, when that is desired, points will never replace week ownership.  To say it will replace all the tradition selling IMHO may ask too much.    But exchange is different than owning.  So exchange wise, it is more close to floating system, rotation system, or point system, but never a fix week system.  And floating system may work within one resort, will become harder and harder to add more resorts with different quality.  Unless everyone willing to accept the assumption that a summer beach week is the same as a say week 2 motel converted TS in the middle of nowhere.  Which I don't believe will ever happen.

Jya-Ning


----------



## PerryM

*My gallon of gasoline for your gallon of milk?*

Let’s face it – if the developer is involved with the exchange company that exchange company will sell it’s soul to the developer.  Look at II and the Marriott 24 day trading window and RCI with the 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 year rule.

The developer can NOT be part of the exchange between 2 owners!  

As to whether a currency based exchange system (Points) is superior to a barter exchange system (Weeks) how many of you take a gallon of gasoline, which normally is used in your lawnmower, down to the local supermarket and exchange it for a gallon of milk?  They cost about the same now.

*We, as a society, adopted a currency based way of exchanging goods and services long time ago – to argue that it’s superior in exchanging timeshare reservations is just plain stupid.*


----------



## Carolinian

PerryM said:


> Let’s face it – if the developer is involved with the exchange company that exchange company will sell it’s soul to the developer.  Look at II and the Marriott 24 day trading window and RCI with the 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 year rule.
> 
> The developer can NOT be part of the exchange between 2 owners!
> 
> As to whether a currency based exchange system (Points) is superior to a barter exchange system (Weeks) how many of you take a gallon of gasoline, which normally is used in your lawnmower, down to the local supermarket and exchange it for a gallon of milk?  The cost about the same now.
> 
> *We, as a society, adopted a currency based way of exchanging goods and services long time ago – to argue that it’s superior in exchanging timeshare reservations is just plain stupid.*



Your gallon of milk vs gallon of gasolene illustrates what is necessary to be a currency.  It must be in *general circulation* not mere vouchers for the company store like points.  Also, a currency is issued by governments.  Most places, it is illegal for other entities to try to issue currency.


----------



## PerryM

*Castro is the answer?*



Carolinian said:


> Your gallon of milk vs gallon of gasolene illustrates what is necessary to be a currency.  It must be in *general circulation* not mere vouchers for the company store like points.  Also, a currency is issued by governments.  Most places, it is illegal for other entities to try to issue currency.



Give me a break!

Look at the shambles our courts are in – to say that they are the guiding beacons for commerce is ludicrous.  If a company wants to create a currency they can go right ahead and do so.  They, however, are responsible for taking care of that currency.  Our government has aptly demonstrated that it is not the master of our monetary system – it just get’s in the way of free markets by favoring one side of the transaction versus the other.  Take the savings and loan fiasco to the crash of 1929 our government favored one side over the other and caused those calamities – people are good, government is a necessary evil.

There are countless examples where the government, lawyers, politicians have destroyed a complete society and the money they minted.  Look at Cuba as a shining example of a government minting currency – I would imagine just about everyone there would rather trade in Disney Currency of some kind.  It is backed up with something but the word of a tyrant.  *This is the shining example we are lead to believe we must defer to – Castro?*

*Is this what you're saying - Castro can mint currency but RedWeek can't?*

But go ahead and hold up Black’s Law Dictionary as the reason to justify a barter system over a currency system if you must – it’s a weak argument at best and just makes me laugh every time I hear it.  The lawyers of this country deciding my future is as bad as the sleazy, egotistical, politicians doing the same thing.  I’m supposed to listen to these blowhards?


Favoring a barter system in timeshare reservations makes about as much sense as favoring a barter system in the stock market.  Both have pieces of paper as proof of ownership – to then start to exchange pieces of paper is just plain stupid, it is a crazy idea.  The developers favor a week system since it hides the over bloated product they sell.

One of the primary measurements I use to buy a timeshare is the rental price that unit will produce – what will a 3rd party pay to use the same exact unit. *This IS the underlying basis of a currency – the rental rate of the unit that a 3rd party would pay.  It doesn’t get more objective than that.*

P.S.
Those of you in love with a barter system should have no problems giving up a ONE share of Berkshire Hathaway which closed last night at $107,300.10 for my ONE share of William Wrigley Jr. Co. which closed at $54.76.

Barter systems are totally inappropriate in the stock market and timeshare exchange market - unless you want an upper hand on one party.


----------



## peterp

*Reasonable Offer from Redweek???*

I just received an offer of 2,017 points for my Marriott Manor Club (original side) for 4th of July week in 2008.

Considering rentals for this week go for around $1,200/week in the summer and considering points are "worth" $1 each..this seems fair....I think.

Now the challenge is that if i deposited this week in II I would most likely receive and AC. Does the RW offer capture that? 

It appears that RW is trying to capture the value of an AC in their offer but its hard to tell in this early stage.

The second challenge is the lack of quality inventory in the RW database....not a Marriott or Hilton to be found.   

One would think that since the database does not contain any upscale inventory they would make "offers we could not refuse" on Marriotts and Hiltons just to get some in there. As the database builds they can scale back on the offer of points if multiple units and weeks accumulate for the same resort.

I for one am rooting for the success of RW to foster some competition from the big two. Lets hope they dont screw it up.


----------



## PerryM

peterp said:


> I just received an offer of 2,017 points for my Marriott Manor Club (original side) for 4th of July week in 2008.
> 
> Considering rentals for this week go for around $1,200/week in the summer and considering points are "worth" $1 each..this seems fair....I think.
> 
> Now the challenge is that if i deposited this week in II I would most likely receive and AC. Does the RW offer capture that?
> 
> It appears that RW is trying to capture the value of an AC in their offer but its hard to tell in this early stage.
> 
> The second challenge is the lack of quality inventory in the RW database....not a Marriott or Hilton to be found.
> 
> One would think that since the database does not contain any upscale inventory they would make "offers we could not refuse" on Marriotts and Hiltons just to get some in there. As the database builds they can scale back on the offer of points if multiple units and weeks accumulate for the same resort.
> 
> I for one am rooting for the success of RW to foster some competition from the big two. Lets hope they dont screw it up.



Just checked Marriott and the last week of July goes for $1,841 at Manor for the week.  July 4th is, of course, sold out so adding a premium would make their offer of 2,017 certainly seem correct.

P.S.
I doubt if RW cares about II's AC.  I get them but have never found an exchange that matches with our vacation schedule - never in years of getting those things.


----------



## BEV

I submitted my one bdrm.. NOLA --Quarter House... and got 1, 448

So I did the deposit.. am looking to get a good week in mid May in Spain-- it is pulling 2 bdrms now in the La Costa resorts in the Costa Del Sol near Malaga... with 300 points left over.   I have faith in redweek.. have been with them for 3 or 4 yrs. now.  Just give it time for the intrepid (or should I say super Cautious) people to deposit their weeks.  

What I dont know, is IF one has Points based weeks. like let's say at Raintree, can they request from Raintree, then lope off the studio part and deposit the studio with Redweek??  Anyone know the answer there???:whoopie:


----------



## Carolinian

Ah. . .you mention the stock market, and that is a good example of the difference between the market based Weeks system and the frozen values, similar to rent control or wage/price freeze, of most points systems.  Stock values change constantly with the shifts in supply and demand; you know, the market.  The calcified numbers of points system do not.  They are rigged and then frozen.  RW has a platform that could, at least, cure that major problem with other points systems, if they choose to use it that way.

Points is still not a ''currency based'' system because points is not a currency.

As to non-government entities issuing currency, that was once allowed in the US.  I have a set of paper currency issued by a local bank in the early 1850s in a frame on my wall.  Those were in general circulation at the time, and is the reason that paper money is known as ''banknotes''.  But it has been many years in this country, or in most countries, since that was legal.  Those banknotes could be spent in any store in town one wished to shop at.  That is what is known as ''general circulation''.  RCI or any other timeshare points cannot.




PerryM said:


> Give me a break!
> 
> Look at the shambles our courts are in – to say that they are the guiding beacons for commerce is ludicrous.  If a company wants to create a currency they can go right ahead and do so.  They, however, are responsible for taking care of that currency.  Our government has aptly demonstrated that it is not the master of our monetary system – it just get’s in the way of free markets by favoring one side of the transaction versus the other.  Take the savings and loan fiasco to the crash of 1929 our government favored one side over the other and caused those calamities – people are good, government is a necessary evil.
> 
> There are countless examples where the government, lawyers, politicians have destroyed a complete society and the money they minted.  Look at Cuba as a shining example of a government minting currency – I would imagine just about everyone there would rather trade in Disney Currency of some kind.  It is backed up with something but the word of a tyrant.  *This is the shining example we are lead to believe we must defer to – Castro?*
> 
> *Is this what you're saying - Castro can mint currency but RedWeek can't?*
> 
> But go ahead and hold up Black’s Law Dictionary as the reason to justify a barter system over a currency system if you must – it’s a weak argument at best and just makes me laugh every time I hear it.  The lawyers of this country deciding my future is as bad as the sleazy, egotistical, politicians doing the same thing.  I’m supposed to listen to these blowhards?
> 
> 
> Favoring a barter system in timeshare reservations makes about as much sense as favoring a barter system in the stock market.  Both have pieces of paper as proof of ownership – to then start to exchange pieces of paper is just plain stupid, it is a crazy idea.  The developers favor a week system since it hides the over bloated product they sell.
> 
> One of the primary measurements I use to buy a timeshare is the rental price that unit will produce – what will a 3rd party pay to use the same exact unit. *This IS the underlying basis of a currency – the rental rate of the unit that a 3rd party would pay.  It doesn’t get more objective than that.*
> 
> P.S.
> Those of you in love with a barter system should have no problems giving up a ONE share of Berkshire Hathaway which closed last night at $107,300.10 for my ONE share of William Wrigley Jr. Co. which closed at $54.76.
> 
> Barter systems are totally inappropriate in the stock market and timeshare exchange market - unless you want an upper hand on one party.


----------



## Carolinian

I would still be interesting in learning if RW's numbers bear any resemblence to supply/demand and pricing history among OBX resorts on the local rental market.

In order of demand over supply and descending price the resorts on the OBX have historically ranked as follows:

1. Outer Banks Beach Club I and II
2. all other oceanfront resorts in the north and central OBX
3. Hatteras High (because so far south, although oceanfront)
4. Seascape (because off the beach)
5. BIS-Kitty Hawk.(because farthest off the beach)

In the last couple of years, however, BIS-Duck has broken from the pack in terms of demand and price and is now head and shoulders above the general run of oceanfront resorts and beginning to challenge even OBBC.

RCI Points stood supply and demand in the rental market on its head and gave the lowest demand resort, BIS-Kitty Hawk more points than comparable unit/weeks at much higher demand BIS-Duck, and BIS-Ocean Pines, the only other points resorts.  They did this after politicking by the developer, which was still in developer sales at Kitty while the other two resorts had long before sold out.  Since the numbers were rigged and frozen, this has gotten even more distorted as the demand for BIS-Duck has soared while that for BIS-Kitty Hawk has remained stagnant.

One wonders how much RW has looked at RCI Points numbers in setting their own.  If they did, they may well have repeated this developer preference given by RCI which reversed the reality of the rental market.  If so, the corruption of the RCI Points numbers racket may spill over into RW.


----------



## PerryM

*Here we go again...*



Carolinian said:


> Ah. . .you mention the stock market, and that is a good example of the difference between the market based Weeks system and the frozen values, similar to rent control or wage/price freeze, of most points systems.  Stock values change constantly with the shifts in supply and demand; you know, the market.  The calcified numbers of points system do not.  They are rigged and then frozen.  RW has a platform that could, at least, cure that major problem with other points systems, if they choose to use it that way.
> 
> Points is still not a ''currency based'' system because points is not a currency.
> 
> As to non-government entities issuing currency, that was once allowed in the US.  I have a set of paper currency issued by a local bank in the early 1850s in a frame on my wall.  Those were in general circulation at the time, and is the reason that paper money is known as ''banknotes''.  But it has been many years in this country, or in most countries, since that was legal.  Those banknotes could be spent in any store in town one wished to shop at.  That is what is known as ''general circulation''.  RCI or any other timeshare points cannot.



Play a friendly game of Texas Holdem and you know all you need to know about a Point system that uses a plastic currency.

For a $5 game we get 8 Black Chips (25¢ each) + 20 Red Chips (10¢ each) and 20 White and Blue Chips (5¢ each).  We don’t need lawyers or Law Dictionaries or Politicians – we know what a currency of plastic chips is.  It doesn’t take a mental giant to make the leap into RW Points.  I think the average timeshare owner can figure out RW’s currency.





Carolinian said:


> I would still be interesting in learning if RW's numbers bear any resemblence to supply/demand and pricing history among OBX resorts on the local rental market.
> 
> In order of demand over supply and descending price the resorts on the OBX have historically ranked as follows:
> 
> 1. Outer Banks Beach Club I and II
> 2. all other oceanfront resorts in the north and central OBX
> 3. Hatteras High (because so far south, although oceanfront)
> 4. Seascape (because off the beach)
> 5. BIS-Kitty Hawk.(because farthest off the beach)
> 
> In the last couple of years, however, BIS-Duck has broken from the pack in terms of demand and price and is now head and shoulders above the general run of oceanfront resorts and beginning to challenge even OBBC.
> 
> RCI Points stood supply and demand in the rental market on its head and gave the lowest demand resort, BIS-Kitty Hawk more points than comparable unit/weeks at much higher demand BIS-Duck, and BIS-Ocean Pines, the only other points resorts.  They did this after politicking by the developer, which was still in developer sales at Kitty while the other two resorts had long before sold out.  Since the numbers were rigged and frozen, this has gotten even more distorted as the demand for BIS-Duck has soared while that for BIS-Kitty Hawk has remained stagnant.
> 
> One wonders how much RW has looked at RCI Points numbers in setting their own.  If they did, they may well have repeated this developer preference given by RCI which reversed the reality of the rental market.  If so, the corruption of the RCI Points numbers racket may spill over into RW.




Why all the cloak and dagger stuff - it takes just a few clicks of the mouse or a phone call to get real rental rates and compare it to RW's.

My actual deposits were spot on - the others I've submitted were wacky - a sign of poor quality control of a startup enterprise.  The above is just silly.


----------



## Carolinian

PerryM said:


> Play a friendly game of Texas Holdem and you know all you need to know about a Point system that uses a plastic currency.
> 
> For a $5 game we get 8 Black Chips (25¢ each) + 20 Red Chips (10¢ each) and 20 White and Blue Chips (5¢ each).  We don’t need lawyers or Law Dictionaries or Politicians – we know what a currency of plastic chips is.  It doesn’t take a mental giant to make the leap into RW Points.  I think the average timeshare owner can figure out RW’s currency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why all the cloak and dagger stuff - it takes just a few clicks of the mouse or a phone call to get real rental rates and compare it to RW's.
> 
> My actual deposits were spot on - the others I've submitted were wacky - a sign of poor quality control of a startup enterprise.  The above is just silly.



You can't spend your plastic chips at the grocery store or gas station.  They are not in general circulation, and therefore NOT currency.  Calling them or timeshare points ''currency'' is just silly.

I don't know what you try to call ''cloak and dagger''.  I have simply pointed out the timeshare rental market hierarchy in an area I am familiar with.  Since I dropped RW back when they went to the ''pay to look'' plan, I am requesting someone who is a member to look it up.

I have questioned whether or not RCI Points values may have corrupted the numbers for RW.  They may or may not have.  If the same peculiar discrepancy that exists in RCI Points is also there in RW, it would be some evidence that perhaps it has.  If it was not there, that would indicate that it is less likely their system was influenced by RCI Points flaws, which would be a good thing.  I simply suggest that it is something that would be interesting to check out.

Also, rental rates alone do not tell the whole story of supply and demand.  To use the same examples, BIS-Kitty Hawk owners oftern price their rentals $100or so under the rates for oceanfront resorts, but another significant factor is that they mostly sit on the shelf until all of the oceanfront inventory is rented.  Thus they have a smaller percentage that actually rent, even at a lower asking price.


----------



## PerryM

Carolinian said:


> You can't spend your plastic chips at the grocery store or gas station.  They are not in general circulation, and therefore NOT currency.  *Calling them or timeshare points ''currency'' is just silly.*
> 
> I don't know what you try to call ''cloak and dagger''.  I have simply pointed out the timeshare rental market hierarchy in an area I am familiar with.  Since I dropped RW back when they went to the ''pay to look'' plan, I am requesting someone who is a member to look it up.
> 
> I have questioned whether or not RCI Points values may have corrupted the numbers for RW.  They may or may not have.  If the same peculiar discrepancy that exists in RCI Points is also there in RW, it would be some evidence that perhaps it has.  If it was not there, that would indicate that it is less likely their system was influenced by RCI Points flaws, which would be a good thing.  I simply suggest that it is something that would be interesting to check out.
> 
> Also, rental rates alone do not tell the whole story of supply and demand.  To use the same examples, BIS-Kitty Hawk owners oftern price their rentals $100or so under the rates for oceanfront resorts, but another significant factor is that they mostly sit on the shelf until all of the oceanfront inventory is rented.  Thus they have a smaller percentage that actually rent, even at a lower asking price.



This past weekend my wife and I went thru the house and gathered up every coin we could find to turn into "real money - paper" at our bank.  Well we dumped the mason jar full of coins into the bank's coin counting machine and a bunch of Canadian coins were spit out by the machine - a total of 95¢.

A asked the bank to exchange the Canadian currency for US - they declined to do so.  The Coke machines won't take them, our local supermarket won't take them.  They are no more a currency than my plastic poker chips to the folks I do business with.

Of course the Canadian money is welcome in our poker games - I discount it at 50% from my friends and that's how I got the stuff in the first place!

*A currency is valid for the folks who want it to be valid *- just try to exchange a Cuban Peso for some of my plastic chips - I won't do it even for a 10% conversion rate - I do have scruples.

RW Points and RCI Points and WorldMark Credits and FF Points are all forms of currency within their universe.  Leaving that universe requires an exchange rate which could be 100% or more to 0%.

P.S.
WM credits do convert to about 6¢ US-rental rate.  Heck, I'd take 1,000 of them at our poker game for $25 US.  You see, these two currencies do have an exchange rate.


----------



## Carolinian

Now we get into another issue - *foreign* currency.  

No, your local stores will not take Canadian dollars or Cuban pesos, but all of the stores in the country that issued it will.  And you can go to a currency exchange house and convert it to another currency.

There is no country or geographical area where all the stores (or even any of them) will take plastic chips or RW points.  And if you take them to an exchange house and try to exchange them for British pounds, Swiss francs, Moldovan lei, or any other real currency, they will laugh at you.  If you think otherwise, go ahead and try it!

No, plastic chips and RW points are not a foreign currency either!


----------



## BocaBum99

Why do we always have these debates about the definition of a currency?  The defintion is irrelevent.

What is relevant is whether or not viewing point systems like national currencies is useful in understanding how it works and their potential behaviours.  I think we can all agree that point systems are "currency-like."  

The poker chip example is a very good one.  You can readily exchange between poker chips and USD.  So, for all intents and purposes, the poker chip is a very effective medium for exchange.  

Actually, you CAN use poker chips for exchange in Las Vegas.  Try it.  Several vendors will take them.  That's because they know that they can convert it back to USD pretty easily.

The problem with RW points is that the products for which you can use them are limited.  If you could easily exchange out of them into USD at some preset exchange rate, then the RW points would have a lot more utility as a kind of currency.


----------



## mrfred

Carolinian said:


> I would still be interesting in learning if RW's numbers bear any resemblence to supply/demand and pricing history among OBX resorts on the local rental market.
> 
> In order of demand over supply and descending price the resorts on the OBX have historically ranked as follows:
> 
> 1. Outer Banks Beach Club I and II



RW offered a bit over 2000 points (I don't recall the exact number and the offer has expired) for my OBBC2 2 bedroom, week 29.


----------



## PeelBoy

mrfred said:


> RW offered a bit over 2000 points (I don't recall the exact number and the offer has expired) for my OBBC2 2 bedroom, week 29.




One bedroom 1517 and two bedroom 2017 (week15) - my offer.


----------



## ouaifer

_*For Boca, Carolinian, Perry, and anyone else who thoroughly enjoys turning this Thread (and other Threads) into a personal sparring opportunity...KNOCK IT OFF!*_  Please keep to the topic so those who are actually interested in the information presented, will have the opportunity to get some benefit from the discussion.  If you want to continue your nonsense, start a new Thread.


----------



## Carolinian

Similar point values for a prime red week 29 and a barely red week 15 (14 is still white) sounds awfully like ''all red trades the same'' to me.  That appears to be worse overaveraging than even RCI Points.

It makes deposit of a week 15 appealing but depositing a prime summer week very unappealing.  From a rental perspective, a week 15 would rent for around half of what a week 29 would.

RW clearly has not gotten all of the bugs out of their valuation system yet.  I am surprised that they would roll it out before they got some of these things fixed.


----------



## Bee

*Go on vacation and the world changes!*

I just returned home and found this thread.  I think it could be a great way to trade, but at this point I would be reluctant to deposit my week.  I have not made an  exchange for several years.  If I don't use my week, I rent it and rent where I want to go.  Looking at Denise's Kauai Beach Villas offer, RW may be determining point values by date and location.  I really need to see more offers to understand this system.

Anyway, Redweek's offer for my Marriott Kauai Beach Club 4th of July 2008 week is:

2 br./2 ba. 2684 points
1 br./1 ba. 2000 points
Studio unit 1367 points.


----------



## Carolinian

Based on a couple of examples mentioned where prime red weeks were given the same number of points as pale pink weeks of the same size at the same resort, one wonders if they are systematically valuing all red weeks the same?  If that is the case, then this is a very, very flawed valuation system.
Then there is the issue of whether they lump together dissimilar resorts in the same general area and give each the same point value, as well as lumping all red weeks of similar size together.


----------



## PerryM

Bee said:


> I just returned home and found this thread.  I think it could be a great way to trade, but at this point I would be reluctant to deposit my week.  I have not made an  exchange for several years.  If I don't use my week, I rent it and rent where I want to go.  Looking at Denise's Kauai Beach Villas offer, RW may be determining point values by date and location.  I really need to see more offers to understand this system.
> 
> Anyway, Redweek's offer for my Marriott Kauai Beach Club 4th of July 2008 week is:
> 
> 2 br./2 ba. 2684 points
> 1 br./1 ba. 2000 points
> Studio unit 1367 points.



Just checked Marriott's site for rates:
1BR OV=$2,793; OF=$3,213
2BR OV=$3,738; OF=$4,088

This is for July - Sep of 2007.

*A 4th of July 2008 2BR OV should be about the price of a normal OF week or $4,000 for the week.*

It appears that RW has decided that it does not want to offer Marriott rental rates in this case.  No wonder that as of today, 6/30/07 I have yet to see a Marriott in the RW system.

Could it be that RW does not want Marriott units?  Who knows.


----------



## eoneguru

As I posted earlier, I submitted the following for week 42 and week 51 in 2008 and got identical offers.
2 BR Lock-off
The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
The Studio - 984

After some research, the only resonable comparison to rental rates I could find was on the resorts web site. I know this is dangerous but, if we assume RW points = dollars  then, RW was plus $139 on the whole unit; plus 6$ on the 1BR and minus $24 on the studio. The resort doesn't compensate for the time of year and, in this case, RW doesn't either.

Ray


----------



## e.bram

What is the difference what RW offers in points for a TS all they will get is sub-prime units(pink, white and blue). RCI, II,DAE and the others all have many of these type units available witha hell of a lot more inventory. How they determine points is immaterial they will get very few(in any) prime weeks.


PerryM: Looking up rack rates or asking prices inn classified ads to determine rental yalue is useless. No more than looking up the asking prices for resales and determining to value of a TS. Weeks listed on TUG,RW calssified ask for thousands can not even get one dollar including free closing and MF for present year. If you don't believe me check it out for yourself.


----------



## PerryM

*Benchmarks are important...*



e.bram said:


> What is the difference what RW offers in points for a TS all they will get is sub-prime units(pink, white and blue). RCI, II,DAE and the others all have many of these type units available witha hell of a lot more inventory. How they determine points is immaterial they will get very few(in any) prime weeks.
> 
> 
> *PerryM: Looking up rack rates or asking prices inn classified ads to determine rental yalue is useless.* No more than looking up the asking prices for resales and determining to value of a TS. Weeks listed on TUG,RW calssified ask for thousands can not even get one dollar including free closing and MF for present year. If you don't believe me check it out for yourself.




Just because you don’t have a clue what RW is doing is no reason to assume others here are in the same quandary.

Marriott rental rates are real – you might get a slight discount if they have duplicates but if not you will have to pay those rates.  This MUST be the basis of their Point system – there is no other basis that I can think of.  Other exchange companies, like R2R, do exactly the same thing – calculate a rental rate for a unit on a specific week and even a view.

This independent assessment of worth is what RW’s Point system is all about.  With this they can incorporate condo-hotels, whole ownership units from VRBO, heck even other things to rent like RVs and house boats.  This allows for the 100% substitution of US dollars for RW Points.

EVERY unit deposited in RW MUST be based upon a verifiable rental rate that someone either charges, like Marriott, or Orbitz, or it might be based upon historical rentals that RW has observed owners of identical units charge now or in the resent past.

I challenge you to come up with a system that works based upon ANY other criteria!  All you naysayers out there where is your exchange system?  It’s takes little effort to throw stones but much to create a system that all parties will be happy with.  100% transparency and 100% neutral is what RW should be striving for – I don’t know how dedicated they are to these goals.  So far my only criticism is in the poor quality control of offers compared to the benchmark rental rate.  In the case of my two actual deposits RW was just a few bucks off.


----------



## PerryM

eoneguru said:


> As I posted earlier, I submitted the following for week 42 and week 51 in 2008 and got identical offers.
> 2 BR Lock-off
> The whole unit, sleeps 6 - 1917
> The 1 BR, sleeps 4 - 1434
> The Studio - 984
> 
> After some research, the only resonable comparison to rental rates I could find was on the resorts web site. I know this is dangerous but, *if we assume RW points = dollars * then, RW was plus $139 on the whole unit; plus 6$ on the 1BR and minus $24 on the studio. The resort doesn't compensate for the time of year and, in this case, RW doesn't either.
> 
> Ray



Q.E.D. Would be my answer.


----------



## eoneguru

PerryM said:


> Q.E.D. Would be my answer.



Perry ... if you mean _"quod erat demonstrandum"_, that is one way to look at it. Just remember that I was comparing RW's offers to the resorts rental schedule. I did see other listings that were $200 to $500 below the RW offer.

Ray


----------



## PerryM

*Spot on...*



eoneguru said:


> Perry ... if you mean _"quod erat demonstrandum"_, that is one way to look at it. Just remember that I was comparing RW's offers *to the resorts rental schedule*. I did see other listings that were $200 to $500 below the RW offer.
> 
> Ray



This is EXACTLY what RW should be doing - using the resorts' published rental rates if they are available.  This is a published rate that is outside of RWs influence.  If this is not available then rental agencies like Orbitz, Travelocity, etc.  After that then sources like TripAdvisor where historic rates are mentioned by folks who actually paid the rental rate.  Then, finally, RW should consult with it's historic database of folks advertising on RWs rental section.

The whole idea is to base the worth of an exchange NOT on RW's opinion but by the free market's opinion - which is ONLY rental rates charged or paid.


II and RCI just make up any worth of an exchange that allows for an exchange - they don't get paid until an exchange is made.  This is why the insanity of upgrades - this should NEVER happen in an exchange where honesty and a level playing field are the key tenets of the system.

This is exactly the reason II and RCI will NEVER release trading power (TP) - it's too easy for us to spot them cheating and lowering the TP so they can cause an exchange to happen and fatten their bottom line which results in a little more for the stockholders.  Every time you get an upgrade either in size or holiday season II and RCI messed around with TP to force an exchange and the following exchange fee - every time.  Of course to those who rely on this cheating it's a great game to play.


----------



## eoneguru

Perry ..... you are getting very close to making a convert of me. I, like many others, would like to see this thing work. I've learned a lot form this thread and, even though it has gone off on a few tangents, it has been a good experience. Being one of the new guys on the block, I must defer to the judgement of you old(long)timers. I think that you, Carolinian, BocaBum99 and Jya-Ning should get together, rent yourselves out to RW and run this program for them. I'm sure you guys could come up with a good, fair and realistic system.

Ray


----------



## Carolinian

Still nothing but the same old speculation.  I still don't see any facts in your post, just guesses.  Indeed, we have seen a number of examples in this thread that would refute the speculation that RW points are based on rental rates.  Prime weeks and pink weeks just do not rent for exactly the same rate in the real world.  If they try to price them the same, the good weeks will be rented and the mediocre weeks will sit on the shelf, and of course that market factor should also be programmed into any fair system of trading power.  The less desirable week should be reduced in value to the point that it becomes desirable at that value.




PerryM said:


> Just because you don’t have a clue what RW is doing is no reason to assume others here are in the same quandary.
> 
> Marriott rental rates are real – you might get a slight discount if they have duplicates but if not you will have to pay those rates.  This MUST be the basis of their Point system – there is no other basis that I can think of.  Other exchange companies, like R2R, do exactly the same thing – calculate a rental rate for a unit on a specific week and even a view.
> 
> This independent assessment of worth is what RW’s Point system is all about.  With this they can incorporate condo-hotels, whole ownership units from VRBO, heck even other things to rent like RVs and house boats.  This allows for the 100% substitution of US dollars for RW Points.
> 
> EVERY unit deposited in RW MUST be based upon a verifiable rental rate that someone either charges, like Marriott, or Orbitz, or it might be based upon historical rentals that RW has observed owners of identical units charge now or in the resent past.
> 
> I challenge you to come up with a system that works based upon ANY other criteria!  All you naysayers out there where is your exchange system?  It’s takes little effort to throw stones but much to create a system that all parties will be happy with.  100% transparency and 100% neutral is what RW should be striving for – I don’t know how dedicated they are to these goals.  So far my only criticism is in the poor quality control of offers compared to the benchmark rental rate.  In the case of my two actual deposits RW was just a few bucks off.


----------



## PerryM

*Like the T-Rex said "Evisceration is a lot of fun"*



eoneguru said:


> Perry ..... *you are getting very close to making a convert of me*. I, like many others, would like to see this thing work. I've learned a lot form this thread and, even though it has gone off on a few tangents, it has been a good experience. Being one of the new guys on the block, I must defer to the judgement of you old(long)timers. I think that you, Carolinian, BocaBum99 and Jya-Ning should get together, rent yourselves out to RW and run this program for them. I'm sure you guys could come up with a good, fair and realistic system.
> 
> Ray




Thanks, but I'm not really trying to convert folks - just present my interpretations of their system.  As with many things in the timeshare world there is a lot of "Connecting the dots" - I've presented my views.

If others have completely different interpretations that is not surprising - look at RCI as an example of vastly different interpretations of what's going on.

I've decided not to deposit anymore units into RW until they calm down and concentrate on submitting quality bids - closer to rental rates.  I've not seen the high quality Marriotts or Westins enter their system yet - if I see some "good stuff" enter I might think of depositing more units.

The burden is now on RW - I've done my little bit, others have too.  RW needs to move towards 100% transparency of operations and a 100% neutral system that does not favor one side of the transaction over the other.

Unlike others here, I do wish RW the best and hope they eviscerate II and RCI - that would make my day.


----------



## icydog

theo said:


> Not in this particular lifetime --- but I might consider being PAID $2k to be in Orlando.....


 
I was able to rent the Marriott Horizons in Orlando for $1900.


----------



## Carolinian

Another possibility, given the same number of points for very different red weeks at the same resort, or very different resorts in the same general area, is that perhaps RW took some existing very generic table, like perhaps the RCI Points grids for non-points resorts, and simply applied a multiplier so it wouldn't be quite so obvious.  It appears that the RW points setup has a lot of the same flaws as the RCI Points generic points grids.


----------



## abc31

Redweek valuation:

FF Fairways of Palm Aire- week 14 - 1 bedroom    ----- 1,434 credits


----------



## PeelBoy

*All Bali Weeks Disappeared*

Something is not right with Redweek:

1.  After depositing my week for 2+ weeks, I have not seen it on the exchange list.  I kept checking a few times a day, so it is not possible it would disappear that quick.

2. All Bali weeks disappeared in a day.


----------



## BocaBum99

Maybe DAE has first of first refusal on all deposits.  That would explain why nothing good is showing up.  It also would explain why DAE believes that the exchange agreement between DAE and Redweek is proprietary.  They don't want to know who is getting the better exchange out of the agreement.  Make no bones about it, either DAE or Redweek customers are getting pillaged given the diffferences in their exchange rules and what constitutes an equal trade.

DAE does need to get something in exchange for the deposits they have provided.  It would be very ironic if it were first dibs at all Redweek inventory.  If that were the case, there would never be anything good in the Redweek system as DAE would poach it all out.


----------



## PerryM

BocaBum99 said:


> Maybe DAE has first of first refusal on all deposits.  That would explain why nothing good is showing up.  It also would explain why DAE believes that the exchange agreement between DAE and Redweek is proprietary.  They don't want to know who is getting the better exchange out of the agreement.  Make no bones about it, either DAE or Redweek customers are getting pillaged given the diffferences in their exchange rules and what constitutes an equal trade.
> 
> DAE does need to get something in exchange for the deposits they have provided.  It would be very ironic if it were first dibs at all Redweek inventory.  If that were the case, there would never be anything good in the Redweek system as DAE would poach it all out.




Why again is DAE involved with RW?

Is it the connections to all the resorts?

Is it to handle all the paperwork?

Is it for their expertise in coming up with RW Points?


What does DAE have that is so important?


----------



## BocaBum99

PerryM said:


> Why again is DAE involved with RW?
> 
> Is it the connections to all the resorts?
> 
> Is it to handle all the paperwork?
> 
> Is it for their expertise in coming up with RW Points?
> 
> 
> What does DAE have that is so important?



It's already been disclosed by DAE that they provide "shared inventory" and some technology to do the verification process for deposits.  

As we are now learning, the most important element of an exchange company is the inventory.  Redweek needed something to get it started, they picked DAE as a partner for the initial inventory.  I think that DAE put a bunch of its online inventory into Redweek to get it started.  Now, that inventory does not belong to RW.  It belongs to DAE depositers with a remaining exchange credit.  It is a secret how DAE balances inventory and exchanges between Redweek and DAE.  To me, they owe us an explanation of how they balance the books.  They don't need to give us the details.  But, we should know roughly what is happening so we know who is subsidizing the effort.

Second, if you talk to anyone who works in an exchange company, you will learn that managing the verification process of deposits is a critical and time-consuming business process.  It is affectionately known in the industry as "pressing and cleaning."  DAE does pressing and cleaning for RW.  

For anyone who has had trouble checking into a resort exchanged through an independent exchange company, you will know how hairy it can be to be the day before of checkin and the resort does NOT recognize you as a guest.

So, DAE's role is not trivial.  The question is did they get a sweetheart deal with Redweek to do this work?  Or, did they give away the store.  They won't tell us the details.  But, someone is subsidizing the new exchange company.  It is either RW or DAE.


----------



## JudyS

BocaBum99 said:


> .....  I think that DAE put a bunch of its online inventory into Redweek to get it started.  Now, that inventory does not belong to RW.  It belongs to DAE depositers with a remaining exchange credit.....


I actually think DAE has another source of inventory, other than its depositers.  They seem to have relationships with certain resorts who give them big chunks of weeks.  Lagonita Lodge, Inn at Silver Creek, Banff Rocky Mountain and a bunch of others -- they all seem to have far more deposits into DAE than could be explained by individual depositers.  If _that's_ the inventory that DAE gave Redweek, that would be OK.  But, I'm not sure that it is.  DAE doesn't seem willing to explain this.


----------



## Carolinian

PeelBoy said:


> Something is not right with Redweek:
> 
> 1.  After depositing my week for 2+ weeks, I have not seen it on the exchange list.  I kept checking a few times a day, so it is not possible it would disappear that quick.
> 
> 2. All Bali weeks disappeared in a day.



It is unlikely Bali weeks came from RW users.  They undoubtedly were DAE inventory.  Maybe this was just used to prime the pump and is gradually being withdrawn.


----------



## Bourne

This thread is an eye opener for me.


----------



## PerryM

BocaBum99 said:


> It's already been disclosed by DAE that they provide "shared inventory" and some technology to do the verification process for deposits.
> 
> As we are now learning, the most important element of an exchange company is the inventory.  Redweek needed something to get it started, they picked DAE as a partner for the initial inventory.  I think that DAE put a bunch of its online inventory into Redweek to get it started.  Now, that inventory does not belong to RW.  It belongs to DAE depositers with a remaining exchange credit.  It is a secret how DAE balances inventory and exchanges between Redweek and DAE.  To me, they owe us an explanation of how they balance the books.  They don't need to give us the details.  But, we should know roughly what is happening so we know who is subsidizing the effort.
> 
> Second, if you talk to anyone who works in an exchange company, you will learn that managing the verification process of deposits is a critical and time-consuming business process.  It is affectionately known in the industry as "pressing and cleaning."  DAE does pressing and cleaning for RW.
> 
> For anyone who has had trouble checking into a resort exchanged through an independent exchange company, you will know how hairy it can be to be the day before of checkin and the resort does NOT recognize you as a guest.
> 
> So, DAE's role is not trivial.  The question is did they get a sweetheart deal with Redweek to do this work?  Or, did they give away the store.  They won't tell us the details.  But, someone is subsidizing the new exchange company.  It is either RW or DAE.




I understand that the actual process of verifying and eventually putting a new name on a guest certificate is time consuming.  However, I see no reason why RW had to get ANY inventory from DAE - that makes no sense at all to me.

RW asks for owners to submit their units and RW then offers them RW Points - why on earth drag DAE's inventory into all of this?


To me RW has made a HUGE mistake to subcontract the "heavy lifting" to DAE - they should be doing all of this themselves.


This is what I don't understand.  A RW employee should be doing all of this and more if need be.  If you are in the timeshare exchange business you can't subcontract that out - that's just plain stupid.

P.S.
RW should have thrown in an insurance policy into their $125 exchange fee.  If there is a screw up with the reservation you get the rental rate instantly deposited into your PayPal account.  The horror stories of II and RCI screwing up and the person who paid for the exchange is left holding the bag should be something that RW addresses - 100% transparency, 100% neutrality in exchanges, and 100% consumer oriented would make them stand head and shoulders above the competition.


----------



## Carolinian

There is still plenty of Bali inventory over at the DAE site.


----------



## PeelBoy

I like Redweek model.

I like traveling offseason, so their white weeks work well for me.

The concern is the limited inventory doesn't belong to Redweek. So, what do they have?  Without inventory, an exchange company is not an exchange company.  Period.


----------



## e.bram

PeelBoy:
RCI and II have plenty of non-prime weeks and a way bigger selection.


----------



## Larry

*RED Week- Are you kidding Me ?????*

Ok I finally checked to see what redweek is offering and what they have available and this does not work for me at all. 

We own several weeks in the Caribbean during prime time and like to travel to Mexico and the Caribbean in the winter time as well as an occasional trip to Europe ( been to Paris, Rome and the French Riviera on trades through RCI) We also go on one family vacation a year to Florida (during spring break taking married kids and grand-kids) RCI and II have come through for us, although I don't like the direction they are both going and have noticed diminished trade power and less availability to where we want to go during the past two years.

First of all Red week does not have a clue on rental values in the Caribbean. AS an example;

1)Offered 990 points for our ocean view week 51 studio at Playa Linda Beach resort in Aruba.

Rental rate on Playa Linda website is $295 per night plus 10% tax.

I have rented out this unit for $1400-1500 per week for the last 8 years.

2) offered 1540 points for week 11 Playa Linda studio which I also rent out for about $1300-1400 per night. Better offer by Red week but I will keep renting this out.

3) Offered 990 points for week 51 studio Pelican unit in St. Martin. I would be lucky to rent this out for around $900 but they offered me the same points as Playa Linda week 51. Makes no sense, but this is an excellent trader with RCI and I am better off depositing with RCI.

4) Offered $2,260 points for My week 2 Aruba Renaissance 1BR. Rental rate on Marriott website is over $350 per night and I have rented this out as well for the last 5 years at $1150-$1400 per week. This does not rent as high as my Playa Linda weeks yet it was the best offer from red week. I am also offered bonus weeks from SFX for this unit but I will continue renting this out.

5) Jockey club 1BR offered 1450 points for this. No way could I ever get anywhere close to what I get for my Aruba weeks in rental. I have traded this through RCI and II for family vacations and have gotten 2BR gold crown and 5 star resorts which rent for $1600 per week plus tax on the website of the resort we trade into. Again, no way would I give this to Redweek. In addition II gives me an AC for depositing this week. I have deposited this six times with RCI and twice with II over the past 8 years and done very well on trades.

6) Flagship studio offered 675 points by redweek and that's probably all it's worth but I trade this strictly during flex exchange with II and have gotten great trades to 5 star resorts including Marriott and Westin. So again no deal Red week.

7) week 50 Pelican resort studio offered 740 red week points which again is about all it's worth except that I need this for family vacation trade with RCI where I have been able to get extra units for my kids. In addition this is in the same building as my week 51 unit but the view from this unit is of the pool and ocean and eventually when I retire will probably start going to St, Maarten for 2 weeks in December to get away from cold weather in NY. Again deal or no deal? No deal for red week!!!!!!

Finally I looked at their current inventory of what's available for winter weeks in the Caribbean and Mexico ( remember that's primarily where we want to go) and their inventory is pathetic to "are you kidding me"?????


----------



## eoneguru

Ive been following this thread with much interest and I have seen folks complain that the don't want to submit their weeks to RW because they don't see good inventory to choose from. Being new here and not very experienced, I was wondering if someone could answer a question. What was it like when RCI and II started out? I realize that the industry was much smaller and there would have been fewer participants, but it seems to me that RW is in a catch 22 situation. They don't have much inventory until people deposit weeks and people won't deposit until they see inventory. Were RCI and II in the same position when they started? Are we comparing apples to oranges? After all, RCI and II have a combined 40+ years in the buisness and have many members to draw upon. RW is just starting and is trying to go in a different direction. Can someone help me out here?

Ray


----------



## Jya-Ning

eoneguru said:


> Ive been following this thread with much interest and I have seen folks complain that the don't want to submit their weeks to RW because they don't see good inventory to choose from. Being new here and not very experienced, I was wondering if someone could answer a question. What was it like when RCI and II started out? I realize that the industry was much smaller and there would have been fewer participants, but it seems to me that RW is in a catch 22 situation. They don't have much inventory until people deposit weeks and people won't deposit until they see inventory. Were RCI and II in the same position when they started? Are we comparing apples to oranges? After all, RCI and II have a combined 40+ years in the buisness and have many members to draw upon. RW is just starting and is trying to go in a different direction. Can someone help me out here?
> 
> Ray




I believe that is the reason they have talked with DAE to get some initial inventories to start with, so they can start the flow.  It will take years before they can be stable and compete the inventory of RCI and II.  By the way, RCI and II get hooked with developers and brokers, and eventually, they can not be independent and try to work for their best interest.

At this moment, any exchange company will have to compete with RCI/II.  Each will try to develope its own uniqueness.  And if they get it right, they will survive, if not, not many people will deal with them.  I am pretty sure a lot of people want to see this sucess.  But I doubt there will be great % of people willing to walk with them from the starting point.  And I don't know if it really necessary, because at this moment, I believe their main business model still is advertise the rent and sell.

It will take time to see what kind of model RW is using to value its point system.  And if they will adopt with time and experience.  Until then, I believe their point will always be ridiculous even if it fit the real renting world 100%.

Jya-Ning


----------



## PerryM

eoneguru said:


> Ive been following this thread with much interest and I have seen folks complain that the don't want to submit their weeks to RW because they don't see good inventory to choose from. Being new here and not very experienced, I was wondering if someone could answer a question. What was it like when RCI and II started out? I realize that the industry was much smaller and there would have been fewer participants, *but it seems to me that RW is in a catch 22 situation*. They don't have much inventory until people deposit weeks and people won't deposit until they see inventory. Were RCI and II in the same position when they started? Are we comparing apples to oranges? After all, RCI and II have a combined 40+ years in the buisness and have many members to draw upon. RW is just starting and is trying to go in a different direction. Can someone help me out here?
> 
> Ray



This is a great question/statement – one that RW is apparently still scratching it's head over – just how do you get the chicken-and-egg to work – simple – bribe folks.

*I think relying on a competitor to get involved with RW is the height of stupidity* – if this is what they indeed did – go to a competitor and beg for inventory.

They should have made ALL exchanges FREE for a period of time – say 1 year.  Then they should have brought on a crew of folks who did ALL the exchange activities internally – using a competitor to do your work is plain old nuts.

I hope that the brains behind RW are a lot more clever than I give tem credit for.  My opinion of them peaked after my first 2 deposits – now I can’t justify taking a flyer with them anymore – they need to sell their soul to DAE and get more inventory if they don’t want to become a laughing joke of the industry; and then what?

Guys (RW), what are you thinking – you have the foundations for a great exchange company – make it FREE for 1 year and do ALL the processing internally.  DO NOT favor either the depositor of the unit or the person exchanging into the unit – charge the rental rate.

What has started out as great news to me is beginning to fizzle out – just like a skyrocket that lost half it’s gunpowder charge – poof instead of pop.


----------



## BocaBum99

I believe Redweek did what they thought they needed to do to get started.  The hardest thing to do in any entrepreneurial activity is to get it going.  They will learn a lot as they progress as a business.  I know I have from what they have done already.

If I were ever going to start an exchange company, there are several things that they did that I wouldn't do.  The first thing is partner up with someone who has all dog inventory.  At a minimum, I would find a partner that has highly desireable weeks for exchange.  Then, they could get some instant success from exchangers.

Also, I would look for a source of high quality FREE weeks that I could use to prime the pump and keep the exchange gap to a slight negative value.  That would mean that the average trade in the beginning would be a trade up.  That is what people want.

Everything else around the business, whether it's points or weeks focused is really secondary behind this access to high quality cheap inventory to prime and stoke the exchange system.


----------



## eoneguru

*Still wondering*

I realize that there probably isn't anyone here now, that was around when RCI and II started. It has been over 20 years. But, does anyone know where they got their inventory to start? Were they always associated with the developers / resorts? If so, that certainly gave them a leg up. If RW is starting to lose folks, like Perry, then they are in trouble. Maybe RW needs to take his advice and make it FREE for a year.

Ray


----------



## Jya-Ning

eoneguru said:


> But, does anyone know where they got their inventory to start?



Try this site.  http://www.rciaffiliates.com/about/rciMilestones.asp

The 1st year, they have 236 confirmation.  But they got developer signed up in first few years, and the business booming.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Jya-Ning

BocaBum99 said:


> Also, I would look for a source of high quality FREE weeks that I could use to prime the pump and keep the exchange gap to a slight negative value.



If you can get high quality free weeks, why start an exchange company?  start a renting company, but side with exchange, disclose that all people's deposit is going to use for rent by you.  They have 2 choices - 1. be your partner, you get pay only when their week is taken out, you charge a cheap fee.  2. take a discount credit from you, that they can apply to any rent inventory you have as exchange, with similar discount rate they get.  And after say 3 years, they can redeem the credit back from you through a renting profit share program with a certain% or just a % of their deposit credit, if they still have not find a good exchanger.  Then you can take the cheap cut, and if you value right you can get some travel package and give the regular rate to normal renting channel and discount rate through exchange packge.  SO say in Perry's case, he got say 1/3 of the renting value you estimate or 700 credit, when you package a complete deal, if it cost say $2000, you sell it to geneal public to $2000 but to member 700 credit. so on so forth.   So you get the difference between the spread.


I guess you need a good escow company and good accountant and few good parners to give you quality weeks to push it.

Jya-Ning


----------



## jjking42

redweek had access to all the prime weeks they needed. they just need to put up cash. 

they could have rented prime weeks from thier own website and put them in the pool. they could have then traded some of those prime weeks ( hilton, marriott, hyatt, disney) with sfx and dae to broaden the inventory.

they could have approached some of thier renters and offered them free ads and other goddies to get them to put some of the rental inventory into the exchange pool.

the real trade index is cash. many people who own several top resorts rent thier prime unused weeks and then use the cash to go wherever they want. much safer bet than waiting on rci or ii to find you something.

if rw was to offer to get you a good exchange or promise to rent you a unit with the max cost of x thats the real deal,

for example if rw offered me 1841 rw points or would agree to rent me anything on thier website with a limt of $ 1841.00 if i cant get what i want with points. i would give them all my weeks. I know i can get what i want with cash on thier website. 

they now have to make sure the get the 1841.00 back on my week. 

cash value the pefect trade scale


----------



## Carolinian

BocaBum99 said:


> I believe Redweek did what they thought they needed to do to get started.  The hardest thing to do in any entrepreneurial activity is to get it going.  They will learn a lot as they progress as a business.  I know I have from what they have done already.
> 
> If I were ever going to start an exchange company, there are several things that they did that I wouldn't do.  The first thing is partner up with someone who has all dog inventory.  At a minimum, I would find a partner that has highly desireable weeks for exchange.  Then, they could get some instant success from exchangers.
> 
> Also, I would look for a source of high quality FREE weeks that I could use to prime the pump and keep the exchange gap to a slight negative value.  That would mean that the average trade in the beginning would be a trade up.  That is what people want.
> 
> Everything else around the business, whether it's points or weeks focused is really secondary behind this access to high quality cheap inventory to prime and stoke the exchange system.



If you are suggesting that DAE has ''all dog inventory'' I would suggest that you scroll through the DAE Exchange Opportunities board at www.timeshareforums.com

Personally, I don't consider the French Riviera and UK canalboat exchanges they got me last summer, the Puerto Rico week at Thanksgiving, Morritts week they got for my neice's honeymoon, etc. to be ''dog'' trades at all.


----------



## Carolinian

I have had a chance to look through some of the RW points numbers on their website once I discovered that a guest membership had access to that info.
While the overaveraging problem seems close to being as severe as that with the RCI Points crossover grids and probably worse than the RCI Points resorts grids, they do not seem to be tracking the RCI Points crossover girds, although they may have used something like that as a basis and tweaked it.

I do find oddities like a pre-Christmas bump many places for weeks like 50, where they give a higher point total for a week that many places is probably the lowest demand week of the year.

Any system based on overaveraging makes deposit of a pink week very attractive but deposit of a prime week highly unattractive.


----------



## jjking42

Carolinian said:


> If you are suggesting that DAE has ''all dog inventory'' I would suggest that you scroll through the DAE Exchange Opportunities board at www.timeshareforums.com
> 
> Personally, I don't consider the French Riviera and UK canalboat exchanges they got me last summer, the Puerto Rico week at Thanksgiving, Morritts week they got for my neice's honeymoon, etc. to be ''dog'' trades at all.



I have heard good things about DAE international exchanges. 
Many of us with large families that require two bedroom units and 5+ airline tickets have a hard time paying for an international vacation and are mosly looking for domestic resorts. I have not been succefull with DAE looking for two bedroom prime summer gold crown resorts in the lower 48.

Best luck so far has been RCi and SFX. of course booking with in the hgvc and fairfield mini systems with points has even better availabilty. 

does dae do ongoing request should i try that ?


----------



## BocaBum99

Carolinian said:


> If you are suggesting that DAE has ''all dog inventory'' I would suggest that you scroll through the DAE Exchange Opportunities board at www.timeshareforums.com
> 
> Personally, I don't consider the French Riviera and UK canalboat exchanges they got me last summer, the Puerto Rico week at Thanksgiving, Morritts week they got for my neice's honeymoon, etc. to be ''dog'' trades at all.



The lionshare of timesharing occurs in the North America.  In North America, their inventory is in the bottom quartile of all resorts.  Do you dispute that?  It is dog inventory.

It may be that DAE has good developer / HOA inventory relationships overseas.  That could be the source of their overseas inventory.  We can't tell because they won't tell us.  And, most timesharers don't go overseas to stay in timeshares.

Their business model of anything in gets anything out leads to dog inventory has played out in North America.  They can't even get decent inventory in Orlando which is the easiest location to exchange for in all of timesharing.

TPI, on the other hand, has a similar anything in gets anything out.  But, they have access to prime inventory since they manage resorts.  They can prime the pump with great inventory anytime they want.  So, an exchange company's success really does depend on getting cheap sources of prime inventory.  DAE doesn't have it in the US.  So, they have weak inventory here.  RW does not appear to have sources of cheap, prime inventory, so they appear to have dog weeks as well mostly derived from DAE..


----------



## BocaBum99

Carolinian said:


> I have had a chance to look through some of the RW points numbers on their website once I discovered that a guest membership had access to that info.
> While the overaveraging problem seems close to being as severe as that with the RCI Points crossover grids and probably worse than the RCI Points resorts grids, they do not seem to be tracking the RCI Points crossover girds, although they may have used something like that as a basis and tweaked it.
> 
> I do find oddities like a pre-Christmas bump many places for weeks like 50, where they give a higher point total for a week that many places is probably the lowest demand week of the year.
> 
> Any system based on overaveraging makes deposit of a pink week very attractive but deposit of a prime week highly unattractive.



I don't think they are averaging at all.  I think they are looking at listings on their rental site and making an educated guess at what the point value should be.


----------



## Carolinian

BocaBum99 said:


> I don't think they are averaging at all.  I think they are looking at listings on their rental site and making an educated guess at what the point value should be.



When they use the precise number to cover a substantial period of time, then there clearly is averaging going on.

And are we are back to the pure speculation as to points being based on rental rates?  There is nothing at all from RW to say that this is the case, and the circumstantial evidence is all over the landscape.  Some of it fits this theory and some doesn't.


----------



## Carolinian

DAE does ongoing requests, and like most exchange companies, the best inventory is often snared by ongoing searches before it has a chance to show up online.  DAE also has Request First where you do not have to prepay an exchange fee or deposit a week until they can confirm an exchange for you.




jjking42 said:


> I have heard good things about DAE international exchanges.
> Many of us with large families that require two bedroom units and 5+ airline tickets have a hard time paying for an international vacation and are mosly looking for domestic resorts. I have not been succefull with DAE looking for two bedroom prime summer gold crown resorts in the lower 48.
> 
> Best luck so far has been RCi and SFX. of course booking with in the hgvc and fairfield mini systems with points has even better availabilty.
> 
> does dae do ongoing request should i try that ?


----------



## Carolinian

*RW gets it backwards on points on OBX test*

I found that guests can get quotes on point numbers on the RW site and did a test.  I compared same size units for the same week at Barrier Island Station Duck, the second highest demand resort on the OBX timeshare rental market, and Barrier Island Station Kitty Hawk, which has always been dead last in demand on the local rental market.

RW got it backwards, giving a few more points to low demand Kitty Hawk than they did high demand Duck.


----------



## Jya-Ning

jjking42 said:


> does dae do ongoing request should i try that ?



Yes, DEA does accept on-going request.  I don't know if you should try and depend your vacation with them.  I did have 2 on-going back to back week request with them.  Don't know what will happen.  It is off season here, but major holiday in the destination I am looking for, unfortunately I have personal reason to be there around that time peiod.  

Since they have less exchangers, you can not depend on the reliabilty of the supplier unless you are look down under.   The good thing is they are open system, you can look at their inventories even if you are not member (membership is free anyway).  So observe the places you want go, see where the deposit come from, and when, then I believe you are better guesser than I am.  Just make sure you have some back up plans (which probably should be true for all exchange).

Jya-Ning


----------



## Carolinian

Another good place to use DAE is where they have trading partners and can get inventory that never appears online.  They have some good destinations in the Caribbean and Europe that are best done through a request.


----------



## PeelBoy

Inventory has gone up.  All Bali weeks are back.  There is a week in Kol Samuai by Absolute Private Residence - a very nice resort and a rare find in a paradise island.  Too bad I can't go.


----------



## e.bram

*Redweek Exchange Program*

Anything new?????


----------



## ausman

A report of a "provisional deposit" class of deposit - not sure how it works.


----------



## PerryM

*Say it with me: "Yawn", that's it, open the mouth and yawn...*

So far the new RW Point based exchange system is a big yawn!

I have yet to see a Marriott in North America inventory – I have 2 years and 11 months before my points expire – sure hope RW get’s their butt in gear.  The North American inventory is still 5 pages long – same as 3 weeks ago – yawn!

Ok RW, here are some hints at getting going:
1)	Bribe owners into depositing
2)	Bribe RW members into exchanging
3)	Bribe quality control

In a capitalistic society bribes work very well thank you.


*Bribe owners into depositing*
Here’s how this works – you offer the owner of the reservation the rental rate AND you throw in some RW Points too.  Say you offer a Marriott MountainSide week 52 owner the normal 5,200 RW Points (which match the $5,200 rental rate Marriott charges for the week) and throw in 10% more – that’s 520 extra RW Points that you may or may not have to cough up later.

*Bribe RW members into exchanging*
This bribe is best exemplified by the 50% off sale or 2 exchanges for 1 type promotion.  You need to do some marketing and stop thinking the RW owners are going to magically start to use your system.

*Bribe quality control*
This bribe is best exemplified by 1) “You can keep your job if you improve consistency” or 2) “Your Christmas bonus depends on your consistency”.  Either way quality control needs to improve immensely – you offered me 1,000 RW Points for that week 52 ski week and Marriott charges $5,200 – someone needs to be kicked in the butt.


So there it is RW – its called management.  You might want to hire a few of these guys – the IT guys are so used to being locked in the basement with the computers that they just won’t help you at this stage of your business plan.


*If I had to give you guys a grade it would be a solid D.*  I could be talked into a D- with little effort.


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## e.bram

Perry:   I told you so.


----------



## PerryM

e.bram said:


> Perry:   I told you so.



Well that supposes that it's over - I believe they are swamped with all kinds of startup problems that they never expected.

I have 2 years and 11 months to give them advice - whether they listen is up to them.  With Google the RW owners can type in "How am I doing RW" and they will see my D score.  It's amazing how much information is available for free via the Internet.


----------



## Elan

It seems to me that if Redweek isn't willing to make some profitability concessions to get things started, their exchange system is DOA.  As has been mentioned, getting any new business venture off the ground is the difficult part .  That's why new B&M businesses have "Grand Opening Specials" -- to incentivize customers to their business in hopes of repeat business.  IMHO, Redweek needs to do one of two things (or both) to get going:

  1) Guarantee me something tangible for my deposit (guarantee to pay me $.80 for my RW points if I can't find an exchage I like, maybe $.90 for a limited time -- all presuming their points are based on accurate rental rates).  

  2) Seed the exchange system with quality inventory that they acquire on the open market (spending their own money).  

  I personally would prefer option (1) because it can be permanently implemented, and sets a floor for the value of all deposits.  

  At this point, I'm not sure exchange fees have much to do with the success of the system.  If there's no desirable inventory, they won't get many deposits regardless of fees, and conversely, if I could get like-for-like exchanges, I don't mind paying a full exchange fee.

                                        Jim


----------



## PerryM

*Follow the yellow brick road....*

We were one of the first 100 owners at Marriott's Horizons at Orlando and such we were a "Founder".  One of the "Founder" benefits was a brick in a pathway at the resort that says "Perry and Barb" - we actually have a picture of it somewhere.  What a thrill - since we already sold our unit there.

Oh well, it's called marketing and consumers expect to be wooed - just look at the airline industry that cares so little about their $300 sales that a 50% discount coupon on a $5 meal is something they just can't bring themselves to do, but pay $ Millions to bankruptcy lawyers they won't hesitate in doing.

So RW, maybe the millionaires/billionaires running your company don't worry about 50% off coupons but it get's customers.  Hire a marketing guy for $100k and you might actually pull this thing off.

If not, you will go the way of the "free" lunch on my 10 hour flight to Maui - a fond memory as I munch down some granola mix to keep my blood sugar from tanking out.  And I only paid $980 dollars for the privilege - per person.


----------



## BocaBum99

basham said:


> A report of a "provisional deposit" class of deposit - not sure how it works.



provisional deposit = provisional exchange.  What exchanger is going to accept that?


----------



## BocaBum99

PerryM said:


> So far the new RW Point based exchange system is a big yawn!
> 
> I have yet to see a Marriott in North America inventory – I have 2 years and 11 months before my points expire – sure hope RW get’s their butt in gear.  The North American inventory is still 5 pages long – same as 3 weeks ago – yawn!
> 
> Ok RW, here are some hints at getting going:
> 1)	Bribe owners into depositing
> 2)	Bribe RW members into exchanging
> 3)	Bribe quality control
> 
> In a capitalistic society bribes work very well thank you.
> 
> 
> *Bribe owners into depositing*
> Here’s how this works – you offer the owner of the reservation the rental rate AND you throw in some RW Points too.  Say you offer a Marriott MountainSide week 52 owner the normal 5,200 RW Points (which match the $5,200 rental rate Marriott charges for the week) and throw in 10% more – that’s 520 extra RW Points that you may or may not have to cough up later.
> 
> *Bribe RW members into exchanging*
> This bribe is best exemplified by the 50% off sale or 2 exchanges for 1 type promotion.  You need to do some marketing and stop thinking the RW owners are going to magically start to use your system.
> 
> *Bribe quality control*
> This bribe is best exemplified by 1) “You can keep your job if you improve consistency” or 2) “Your Christmas bonus depends on your consistency”.  Either way quality control needs to improve immensely – you offered me 1,000 RW Points for that week 52 ski week and Marriott charges $5,200 – someone needs to be kicked in the butt.
> 
> 
> So there it is RW – its called management.  You might want to hire a few of these guys – the IT guys are so used to being locked in the basement with the computers that they just won’t help you at this stage of your business plan.
> 
> 
> *If I had to give you guys a grade it would be a solid D.*  I could be talked into a D- with little effort.




Perry's ideas = Severe Points Inflation = DOA


----------



## BocaBum99

PerryM said:


> Well that supposes that it's over - I believe they are swamped with all kinds of startup problems that they never expected.
> 
> I have 2 years and 11 months to give them advice - whether they listen is up to them.  With Google the RW owners can type in "How am I doing RW" and they will see my D score.  It's amazing how much information is available for free via the Internet.



I think that Redweek only made ONE mistake and it was a lethal one.  The mistake they made was partnering with DAE for inventory.  They would have been better off partnering with a dozen or so US developers with an affiliation agreement for free inventory to prime the pump.  But, they can't do that because they promote resales on their site.

Redweek just sent out a blast of messages to its customer list.  We'll see if that has any impact.  If we don't see much activity over the next 30-days, they will be on their death bed.

Perry, let me get this straight.  You have 2 years and 11 months to get back to where you were 1.5 months ago?  And, there is a real possibility that you will get nothing for that deposit.  Shouldn't you have a least had a chance to double your investment given the risk you took?


----------



## thinze3

*BocaBum*

Do you work for RCI??

You are all over the TugBB slamming Redweeks exchange program. Why?

Truth is, RCI has turned to the dogs in recent years, and Redweek is offering people a real option here. You cannot assume everything they are doing will fail and that everyweek deposited will be a "trash" week.

I have seen a handful of decent rooms traded already, and chances are they will continue to get better not worse.

I see where a person was offered 2000 points for a 3BR Kingsgate. I traded my 3BR Chrisite Lodge (not so great week) for a 3BR Kingsgate three years ago. Redweek gave me 1800 points for my unit. All-in-all  that was a pretty even exchange offer.

Somebody else was offered 2800 for a 2BR Marriott Kauai. They offered me about the same for Waiohai. They ARE making fair offers.

The deposits WILL start coming in after a few more people continue to read here and on other boards about it. It is just a trust issue at this point.

GIVE IT TIME.  Good Luck


----------



## thinze3

"Say you offer a Marriott MountainSide week 52 owner the normal 5,200 RW Points (which match the $5,200 rental rate Marriott charges for the week..."

That's apples and oranges.
Marriott gives owners pennies on the dollar for their rooms now.

What would this week rent for on Redweek? Maybe $3200??
That's where most people rent their weeks.


----------



## PerryM

thinze3 said:


> "Say you offer a Marriott MountainSide week 52 owner the normal 5,200 RW Points (which match the $5,200 rental rate Marriott charges for the week..."
> 
> That's apples and oranges.
> Marriott gives owners pennies on the dollar for their rooms now.
> 
> What would this week rent for on Redweek? Maybe $3200??
> That's where most people rent their weeks.



You can't base a Point Based Timeshare Exchange System based upon haggling price points.  You must base it upon a rate that folks pay the resort/developer.  You can't haggle with Marriott - it's $5,200 or nothing with Marriott - that's the rack rate.  Now if they have multiple identical weeks then they may offer discounts for AAA or AARP, but NEVER on the last unit - at least this seems how Marriott handles it.


----------



## PerryM

BocaBum99 said:


> I think that Redweek only made ONE mistake and it was a lethal one.  The mistake they made was partnering with DAE for inventory.  They would have been better off partnering with a dozen or so US developers with an affiliation agreement for free inventory to prime the pump.  But, they can't do that because they promote resales on their site.
> 
> Redweek just sent out a blast of messages to its customer list.  We'll see if that has any impact.  If we don't see much activity over the next 30-days, they will be on their death bed.
> 
> Perry, let me get this straight.  You have 2 years and 11 months to get back to where you were 1.5 months ago?  And, there is a real possibility that you will get nothing for that deposit.  Shouldn't you have a least had a chance to double your investment given the risk you took?




I decided to put my money where my mouth is - I complain about II and RCI and want to see a Point based exchange company out there challenge them.  I deposited 2 weeks worth about $2,000+ and am willing to take the gamble on getting something worth that amount in the next 3 years.

If folks complain about something and then don't take up the challenge to address those complaints this is the definition of a hypocrite.  I take risks like this in the stock market about every 15 minutes all day long - I'm not going to lose any sleep over the support I gave to RW.  I would like to encourage RW to kick it up a notch however.


----------



## BocaBum99

thinze3 said:


> Do you work for RCI??
> 
> You are all over the TugBB slamming Redweeks exchange program. Why?
> 
> Truth is, RCI has turned to the dogs in recent years, and Redweek is offering people a real option here. You cannot assume everything they are doing will fail and that everyweek deposited will be a "trash" week.
> 
> I have seen a handful of decent rooms traded already, and chances are they will continue to get better not worse.
> 
> I see where a person was offered 2000 points for a 3BR Kingsgate. I traded my 3BR Chrisite Lodge (not so great week) for a 3BR Kingsgate three years ago. Redweek gave me 1800 points for my unit. All-in-all  that was a pretty even exchange offer.
> 
> Somebody else was offered 2800 for a 2BR Marriott Kauai. They offered me about the same for Waiohai. They ARE making fair offers.
> 
> The deposits WILL start coming in after a few more people continue to read here and on other boards about it. It is just a trust issue at this point.
> 
> GIVE IT TIME.  Good Luck



No, I don't work for RCI.  I answered your post more completely on the other thread where you posted the identical question.

The issue is Redweek is a start up venture and it is helpful to depositers to understand fully what they are getting into when considering a deposit.  That's what I am trying to provide... reasoned logic supported by the facts that I can see. 

Trust is the issue, I agree.  That level of trust will increase with me when I see them starting to do things that make their exchange system more viable.

If they get a source of weeks for the US, then they have a chance at success.  If they don't, then they will fail.  It's as simple as that.  I provide ideas for how they could potentially achieve that inventory on the other thread.  I'm sure they could come up with far better ideas.  However, until those ideas manifest themselves to us, even our most optimistic poster in PerryM is having his doubts about the Redweek strategy.


----------



## PerryM

BocaBum99 said:


> Perry's ideas = Severe Points Inflation = DOA



Nope, I'm encouraging RW to entice Marriott weeks by offering incentives to Marriott owners and RW must eventually pay for this - NOT the folks exchanging.

I'm going to guess that 10% of the RW Points will expire worthless each year - that matches the industry average with weeks.  That 10% should be used to entice Westins and Marriotts and Disney owners to deposit their units.  Offering a bonus like "Hurry - special incentives to deposit are available for a limited time".

I am NOT encouraging RW to cause debits to not equal credits.

They can do it this way or to forgive part or all the exchange fee a Disney owner would pay - it's up to the marketing folks at RW.


----------



## Jya-Ning

*Is it going to benefit the renting & selling part of business?*

Or will be totally unrelavent?

My guess is it will benefit.

Jya-Ning


----------



## e.bram

RW has, I believe, less timeshare owner penetration than TUG plus you have to pay to play. Compared to RCI and II their penetration is miniscule . Wher are they going to get all this action from?


----------



## thinze3

PerryM

I glad you joined in! I deposited my 3BR Christie Lodge spring break ski week three weeks ago with Redweek. Kylie at Redweek told me they were having a "soft opening" at the time. I guess now it is off and running.

They gave me 1800 points. I'll keep my eyes open for good deposits.


I totally understand the wait and see attitude of most. I have used, rented and traded my 3BR Christie Lodge. I decided to turn it in because we don't ski often enough, I'm tired of renting it, and RCI trades have become worse in the last two years.

I own a Marriott Waiohai, which I love, and just purchased Marriott Legends Edge because of the cost & fees vs. the rewards points and the fact that it is the closest Marriott to my home.

I guess I just had a timeshare to spare, if you will. I decided to bite the bullet after several very friendly emails with Redweek. They seemed determined and genuine.


----------



## PerryM

*Plan B?*



e.bram said:


> RW has, I believe, less timeshare owner penetration than TUG plus you have to pay to play. Compared to RCI and II their penetration is miniscule . *Wher are they going to get all this action from? *



I'm assuming the 1,000,000+ folks that they have eMail address for.


I don't understand some of what RW has done so far:
1) Get in bed with a competitor for their inventory?
2) Quality control that stinks
3) NO communication with RW members
4) Bypassed a beta test and went direct to the general public
5) Do-it-yourself marketing that just doesn't do the job


I'm going to give RW the benefit of the doubt and blame the millionaire owner(s) who have made some really bad startup mistakes - hopefully they have a Plan B to now turn to.  I'm guessing that right about now their egos are starting to be punctured and it's time to hire anyone but the brother-in-law.

P.S.
RW, you know that MyResortNetwork.com is watching what you are doing - screw around a little more and they will introduce a competitive product and benefit from all your screw ups.  It's not too late to recover but how come I haven't been sent a nice "Welcome" package and all kinds of marketing information?

I know you can pick yourself up and dust off the ego - let's start to see an immediate turnaround while there is time.


----------



## PA-

Man, I leave town for a 1 week worldmark vacation, and the world has turned upside down.  I thought I got reamed for being less than enthusiastic about RW's exchange program just 10 or so days ago, now it's ok to question the geniouses there.  What changed while I was gone?


----------



## PA-

The first post on this thread was exactly one month ago.  Not much time to give a new business venture a go.  I predicted it was a yawn, and got heat for that prediction; give it time.  Now, it seems I have company.


----------



## PerryM

*3rd down, 15 to go*



PA- said:


> The first post on this thread was exactly one month ago.  Not much time to give a new business venture a go.  I predicted it was a yawn, and got heat for that prediction; give it time.  Now, it seems I have company.



The "chicken or egg" syndrome has hit RW and so far those that have taken the plunge seem to be watching a re-run of RCI Points.  I’ve not seen any Marriotts or Disneys or Westins or other top end reservations appear in the past 10 days – nor has the inventory grown from 5 pages for North America during that time – it’s still at 5 pages.

This is like a football play where the quarterback barks out the count and what starts out looking like a great play ends up as a fumble – it only takes but 10 seconds to see it unfurling.  10 days is more than enough time for RW to have doubled their inventory and gotten high quality reservations – they seemed to have fumbled the kickoff.

Those that choose to sit by and wait for some sign from heaven that it’s now ok to join in will just make the fumbling kickoff go on and on.  However, RW has had more than enough time to roll out the fancy marketing eMails and those once in a lifetime offers for folks to join in challenging II and RCI to a 21st century solution to timeshare exchanging.  I've not seen any of this.

The few of us to took the risk now need to see RW get out of a “3rd down; 15 to go” situation and not get into a “4th down and punt” situation where years will fritter away while a new quarterback is found.

(Hey, it’s 98º in St. Louis and I’m dreaming of attending some great fall Mizzou Football games)

But just like a football game you need to attend and support your team.  Claiming "I told you so" is not going to have a viable alternative to II and RCI anytime soon.  This is just the first play of a season long schedule.  If anything RW's fumbling may doom the timeshare world to decades more of secret formulas and techniques that II and RCI have inflicted upon us over the past 20 years - what other company will want to jump in and carry the ball?


----------



## BocaBum99

PA- said:


> The first post on this thread was exactly one month ago.  Not much time to give a new business venture a go.  I predicted it was a yawn, and got heat for that prediction; give it time.  Now, it seems I have company.




I don't think you are alone.  I've been there from the start.


----------



## PeelBoy

There are a few higher end resorts and weeks, e.g. Sheraton in AZ, but not enough to kick start the momentum.

The newest is the provisional deposit, i.e. a deposit to be confirmed if there is a match.

It seems people are still watching.


----------



## wbtimesharer

PerryM said:


> The "chicken or egg" syndrome has hit RW and so far those that have taken the plunge seem to be watching a re-run of RCI Points.  I’ve not seen any Marriotts or Disneys or Westins or other top end reservations appear in the past 10 days – nor has the inventory grown from 5 pages for North America during that time – it’s still at 5 pages.
> 
> This is like a football play where the quarterback barks out the count and what starts out looking like a great play ends up as a fumble – it only takes but 10 seconds to see it unfurling.  10 days is more than enough time for RW to have doubled their inventory and gotten high quality reservations – they seemed to have fumbled the kickoff.
> 
> Those that choose to sit by and wait for some sign from heaven that it’s now ok to join in will just make the fumbling kickoff go on and on.  However, RW has had more than enough time to roll out the fancy marketing eMails and those once in a lifetime offers for folks to join in challenging II and RCI to a 21st century solution to timeshare exchanging.  I've not seen any of this.
> 
> The few of us to took the risk now need to see RW get out of a “3rd down; 15 to go” situation and not get into a “4th down and punt” situation where years will fritter away while a new quarterback is found.
> 
> (Hey, it’s 98º in St. Louis and I’m dreaming of attending some great fall Mizzou Football games)
> 
> But just like a football game you need to attend and support your team.  Claiming "I told you so" is not going to have a viable alternative to II and RCI anytime soon.  This is just the first play of a season long schedule.  If anything RW's fumbling may doom the timeshare world to decades more of secret formulas and techniques that II and RCI have inflicted upon us over the past 20 years - what other company will want to jump in and carry the ball?




Perry,

What I think is happening is that while some Tuggers feel RCI and II are the Demon spawn not all do.   Since all Tug users combined probably make up, what, <1% of all timeshare owners, I think the remaining 99% of timesharers have no issue with these companies.  

This is like someone trying to open a independent hardware store right down the street from a SuperWalDemonSpawnMart.  It has the same chance as an ice cube in Hades of succeeding.   Now RW may actually pull this off, but I think its gonna be a long painful haul to success.  I am closing on depositing one of my weeks just to what its 600-800 points will garner.   I am going to hold off putting in anything of rental value for awhile in my sit the fence mode.

Then again, I haven't built up the intense hatred for the RCI and II that I think is required to jump full force into the arms of RW points.

Bill


----------



## isisdave

I was offered 2274 points for Marriott Newport Coast next Easter Week. I ordinarily am able to rent it for $1500 but am not overwhelmed with offers at that price. It probably would get an AC too.  This would be tempting if there were attractive exchanges to select from.

Other notions:

* Trding down: People who have great timeshares don't always have unlimited opportunities to vacation. I have three very good Marriott weeks, and only four weeks of vacation a year, so I am not likely to turn one Waiohai week into multiple weeks at Seaweed Beach or even at second-tier resorts, because I would have no opportunity to use them.  Some of you enviable colleagues don't have this problem, of course, but I think owners of most high-end weeks want to use them or something very similar.

* For something to be a currency, it has to be usable in a market sufficiently universal to suit both parties.  I.e., it doesn't matter if the currency is Canadian dollars if both parties are Canadians and can use Canadian dollars.  In this case, if the RW exchange market is wide enough so that the exchangers can make use of points, it'll meet this requirement.

The other requirement is that the value of the points has to be beyond the control of any of the participants, including RW.  In other words, it has to be set by the market.  I am tempted by 2274 for my Newport week, but 1000 would not have interested me.  10,000 I would have snapped up ... until I wondered, "hmm, I wonder what they'll CHARGE for this week?" or any other.

I haven't noted any posts saying how many points RW WANTS for the same week, compared to how many they offer. This is one way they'll build inventory. If you take in 10 units at 1000 each and charge 1100 when you sell each, you only have to sell 9 to break even, and have one unit left.

The other problem with an RW-moderated "currency" is their ability to adjust the value of a point.  If I deposit my week for 2274, and a year from now they're giving 3000 for the same week, I can guess that they'll have also raised the asking price of weeks they have in stock. This is inflation, which always hurts creditors, who are compensated by interest they charge.

The final problem is absolute liquidity.  If the US government abandoned the dollar by insisting we pay taxes in Euros, the resulting currency collapse would probably cause civil war.  People use chips in Vegas only because they expect the casino to buy them back.  If RW ever has financial trouble and decides that their "chips" are worthless, those holding deposits will lose their value.  Those who deposit are taking a risk, and deserve compensation for that.

I'm not an economist, but I would like to play one on TV.
Sorry. Too darn long as usual.


----------



## thinze3

isisdave said:


> I was offered 2274 points for Marriott Newport Coast next Easter Week. I ordinarily am able to rent it for $1500 but am not overwhelmed with offers at that price. It probably would get an AC too.  This would be tempting if there were attractive exchanges to select from.......
> 
> I haven't noted any posts saying how many points RW WANTS for the same week, compared to how many they offer......




Redweek gave me 1800 points for my unit. It is now listed on the exchange service for the same amount, 1800 points.

I had emailed Kylie at Redweek to ask this question. They will list the units for the same amount they give you and make their money on TWO exchanges.

Sounds like they made you a very fair offer. My unit usually rents for $1600-$1800. What is the actual date of your Marriott Newport week?


----------



## bigeyes1

Well, I've decided to see what they would offer for my two weeks, just out of curiosity.  In all honesty, I'm pleasantly surprised..  

Their offer:

2 bdr @ PAHIO at the Shearwater (Kauai) for Aug '08- 2952 points
1 bdr @ Cliffs at Peace Canyon in Las Vegas for July '09- 1450 points


Not sure if I'll take the plunge or not.  However, it's nice to have another choice out there since I'm no longer an II or RCI member.  In given time, I'm sure RW will be a wonderful exchange company IF people give them a chance.   We'll see.


----------



## PerryM

isisdave said:


> I was offered 2274 points for Marriott Newport Coast next Easter Week. I ordinarily am able to rent it for $1500 but am not overwhelmed with offers at that price. It probably would get an AC too.  This would be tempting if there were attractive exchanges to select from.
> 
> Other notions:
> 
> * Trding down: People who have great timeshares don't always have unlimited opportunities to vacation. I have three very good Marriott weeks, and only four weeks of vacation a year, so I am not likely to turn one Waiohai week into multiple weeks at Seaweed Beach or even at second-tier resorts, because I would have no opportunity to use them.  Some of you enviable colleagues don't have this problem, of course, but I think owners of most high-end weeks want to use them or something very similar.
> 
> * For something to be a currency, it has to be usable in a market sufficiently universal to suit both parties.  I.e., it doesn't matter if the currency is Canadian dollars if both parties are Canadians and can use Canadian dollars.  In this case, if the RW exchange market is wide enough so that the exchangers can make use of points, it'll meet this requirement.
> 
> The other requirement is that the value of the points has to be beyond the control of any of the participants, including RW.  In other words, it has to be set by the market.  I am tempted by 2274 for my Newport week, but 1000 would not have interested me.  10,000 I would have snapped up ... until I wondered, "hmm, I wonder what they'll CHARGE for this week?" or any other.
> 
> I haven't noted any posts saying how many points RW WANTS for the same week, compared to how many they offer. This is one way they'll build inventory. If you take in 10 units at 1000 each and charge 1100 when you sell each, you only have to sell 9 to break even, and have one unit left.
> 
> *The other problem with an RW-moderated "currency" is their ability to adjust the value of a point.  If I deposit my week for 2274, and a year from now they're giving 3000 for the same week, I can guess that they'll have also raised the asking price of weeks they have in stock. This is inflation, which always hurts creditors, who are compensated by interest they charge.*
> 
> The final problem is absolute liquidity.  If the US government abandoned the dollar by insisting we pay taxes in Euros, the resulting currency collapse would probably cause civil war.  People use chips in Vegas only because they expect the casino to buy them back.  If RW ever has financial trouble and decides that their "chips" are worthless, those holding deposits will lose their value.  Those who deposit are taking a risk, and deserve compensation for that.
> 
> I'm not an economist, but I would like to play one on TV.
> Sorry. Too darn long as usual.



All great Points (a pun, sadly).

Inflation is real - it affects everyone here 24/7.  Of course RW will have to reflect reality by tracking rental rates - look for 3% - 5% inflation per year.  It's just reality and the sign of a system that is looking for a 3rd party to establish the "worth" of a week - the rental market and more specifically the rental rack rates charged by the resort themselves.

So whether you park your money is US dollars or RW Points they will decrease in value over time - inflation.


----------



## thinze3

bigeyes1 said:


> Well, I've decided to see what they would offer for my two weeks, just out of curiosity.  In all honesty, I'm pleasantly surprised..
> 
> Their offer:
> 
> 2 bdr @ PAHIO at the Shearwater (Kauai) for Aug '08- 2952 points
> 1 bdr @ Cliffs at Peace Canyon in Las Vegas for July '09- 1450 points
> 
> 
> Not sure if I'll take the plunge or not.  However, it's nice to have another choice out there since I'm no longer an II or RCI member.  In given time, I'm sure RW will be a wonderful exchange company IF people give them a chance.   We'll see.




It looks like a more than fair offer for Kauai!
That's the same points they offered me last month for my 2BR Marriott Waiohai in Kauai for summer '08!

It appears another couple of nice units are coming on board, Hawaii and Cacuun!

Jump In BigEyes!!

see here:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50758

Good Luck


----------



## bigeyes1

Well, if I can somehow persuade my husband we don't need to go to Kauai in 2008, I would certainly give it a try with that week.  My husband LOVES Kauai, though. So, that week is probably out.  But our Las Vegas week would work since we both already decided we didn't want to go back to Las Vegas for a while.  

Me?  I wouldn't mind getting several weeks worth out of our Shearwater's deposit. RW's exchange system would work for us because we don't like going on vacations during peak times.  We would also accept a one bedroom because normally, its just the two of us.  Having said that, we are pretty particular on the resort itself.  

Thus far, I have not seen anything of interest in RW's system.... YET.  I think as the days go by and more deposits are being made, RW will have something good on their hands.  

Only time will tell.


----------



## LisaH

I also sent in a valuation request for my Christmas Shearwater week. Let's see what happens.

One interesting thing I found out was when I tried to submit my friend's week at WIVC Coral Mar, I got an instant message saying "Sorry, we are not currently accepting weeks for this resort". Apparently this is a DAE affiliated resort and there are already many weeks listed on RW. Seems like they don't accept all the weeks that are offered...


----------



## PerryM

*Michelob or Bud marketing?*



LisaH said:


> I also sent in a valuation request for my Christmas Shearwater week. Let's see what happens.
> 
> One interesting thing I found out was when I tried to submit my friend's week at WIVC Coral Mar, I got an instant message saying *"Sorry, we are not currently accepting weeks for this resort"*. Apparently this is a DAE affiliated resort and there are already many weeks listed on RW. Seems like they don't accept all the weeks that are offered...




Just got back from Sam's - picked up a case of Michelob Light - it costs $4 more a case than Bud Light.  I'd bet that the cost to brew each is exactly the same - Michelob is marketed as more upscale and we upscale folks want to pay more than Bud Light folks (Of course last week I bought Bud Light, but I feel much more upscale this week).

The point is that RW seems to have left out marketing all together - are they aimed at bottom of the barrel exchanges or top end exchanges.  When I first jumped in and deposited 2 weeks I assumed that they were going after the top end folks first - this was a mistake on my part. RW seems to be cornering the market on the lower end exchanges - off season and no top end developers.

RW you have let the market define what you are - off course "fence sitters" are going to wait to see high quality exchanges while those with dogs are going to flood you with deposits.  (No offense meant to those of us who have already deposited)

My suggestion is to work the bugs out of this system and then introduce a "Platinum Exchange System" and go for the top end folks.  That, however, will require you to hire a marketing guy who understands why folks will pay more for the same exact product if given 2 choices.

P.S.
We are remodeling our kitchen (what a thrill) and I was listening to TV and they had a segment on "Two Buck Chuck" - $2 wine that we buy all the time from Trader Joe's - there are exceptions to every rule.  (the wine is 2005, the DOUBLE Gold Medal awards were just awarded)


----------



## thinze3

*RedWeek*

Being one of the "originals" in the new RedWeek Exchange program, I have been in semi-constant communication with folks over at Redweek for about SIX WEEKS.

I recieved an email from one of them on Saturday evening. I was told that they (Redweek) are monitoring the TUG bulletin boards, and are hearing what the people are saying. Of course they are monitoring their own BB as well. Though, that doesn't mean that they will, or even can, make changes to suit all, they ARE listening. They also informed me that they will NOT respond on this BB.

I was also told by Redweek, "We have received a great response to exchange following our recent e-mail announcement. Good weeks are coming..." - RedWeek

Every accepted week deposited for RW points takes time to show up on their site (mine took two weeks). I beilieve that we will soon start to see those weeks showing up as available exchanges.



I know many of you have multiple timeshare weeks, as I do. What is wrong with a little change, or a little "gamble" as some of you call it? Let's jump in and make some deposits. At worst case, start with your least valuable week and work your way up in the future if things work out.

I know that my spring break 2008 ski week is available - if you want to go skiing!


----------



## LisaH

Ok my Christmas Shearwater week were given points of 2,214, less than what they offered to Trish. I wonder if this is because it's closer to the check-in date than Trish's?


----------



## PerryM

*A "Friday Chrysler" might explain this...*



LisaH said:


> Ok my Christmas Shearwater week were given points of 2,214, less than what they offered to Trish. I wonder if this is because it's closer to the check-in date than Trish's?




One of my students works for the Chrysler plant 5 miles from our school.  He has been there for a while and he has stories of what “Friday Cars” are – those built on Friday with folks hurrying to finish their tasks and depending on the work load when a car would sit there over the weekend.  Smart Chrysler shoppers would, in past years, find out what day of the week the car was made.  (This guy is a prankster and might be yanking my chain).

You don't want to know what a "scab Chrysler" is.

Anyway quality control is a very big function in any top company – every Happy Meal should be the same no matter what part of the planet you are on.  I have evidence that RW has yet to address quality control – they offered me 1,000 RW points for a week 52 Marriott ski resort that Marriott charges $5,200 for the week – this is not just a slight discrepancy this is a disaster.

So that would be my first guess – lax quality control of their product.  RW’s reputation is in the hands of that quality control person – hope they don’t fumble.

Beyond that duplicates could be at work here – they already are working on the same reservation with another owner and must now offer you less – supply and demand.  (I doubt this reason)


----------



## eoneguru

*This thread has been one of the most .......*

entertaining and educational of my short time here. Just wondering, of the folks here that think RCI and II are doing something shady, do they also think the lesser (smaller) exchange companies may be doing the same?

Ray

 Chaulk it up to old age.


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## jjking42

i am glad that rw is monitoring BBS. I also know that hgvc monitors this bbs. 
Once i posted a problem i had with hgvc and they thought it important enough to respond to me privately.

I wish RW the best of luck. I have had good success with RCI and SFX. Not so good with II. Buts that in another thread. many here love II.

I think that Rw should use some cash to purchase some of the prime rental weeks that are available on thier website. $ 20,000 would do it. rent the stuff that goes between 1000.00 and 2000.00 a week. Stay away from the 4500.00 weeks. Take only two bedrooms units in summer and spring break.

That would prime the pump. They can then offer these special one time only confirm before you deposit weeks to select owners who have more of the same type of inventory ( by Now they know who has what they need)

Then they can place those deposited weeks in the regular exchange pool.

Once the top weeks show up people will start jumping in.


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## thinze3

PerryM said:


> ....Anyway quality control is a very big function in any top company – every Happy Meal should be the same no matter what part of the planet you are on.  I have evidence that RW has yet to address quality control – they offered me 1,000 RW points for a week 52 Marriott ski resort that Marriott charges $5,200 for the week – this is not just a slight discrepancy this is a disaster....
> 
> (I doubt this reason)



Perry

Possible:
The people that seem to be leaving the most negative posts here about Redweek, seem to be those that didn't get the offer they think they should have. I don't know if that is the case here or not.

Or:
Read my post above and you will see that Redweek is monitoring this BB as well. Being that you have been the most negative person posting on this BB about Redweek - that may have to do something with your offer.

Or:
Maybe the week you offered is a week that nobody , including Redweek wants. You call it a "Marriott ski resort." If it is a ski resort completely out of season, it may just be worth nothing, regardless of what Marriott is asking for rent.

By the way, NOBODY rents full weeks from Marriott, at ANY resort, during ANY season for $5200. There a million ways to beat that; owner rentals, previews, certificates, points, trades, etc..

I just returned from my Waiohai and "rented" a second room for $1850. I simply bought a 2BR 2BA Signature Villa Award from Marriott and turned it in. Yep, that's right. It was a $4,000 villa if taxes were added in.

Exactly what resort, with how many BR, and what week did you offer Redweek? I'll tell you what it is worth.


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## thinze3

jjking42 said:


> i am glad that rw is monitoring BBS. I also know that hgvc monitors this bbs.
> Once i posted a problem i had with hgvc and they thought it important enough to respond to me privately.
> 
> I wish RW the best of luck. I have had good success with RCI and SFX. Not so good with II. Buts that in another thread. many here love II.
> 
> I think that Rw should use some cash to purchase some of the prime rental weeks that are available on thier website. $ 20,000 would do it. rent the stuff that goes between 1000.00 and 2000.00 a week. Stay away from the 4500.00 weeks. Take only two bedrooms units in summer and spring break.
> 
> That would prime the pump. They can then offer these special one time only confirm before you deposit weeks to select owners who have more of the same type of inventory ( by Now they know who has what they need)
> 
> Then they can place those deposited weeks in the regular exchange pool.
> 
> Once the top weeks show up people will start jumping in.



There's an idea that might work. Maybe contact those people directly and work out some sort of deal with points and cash.

They could also posts weeks that have been truned in and not yet turned over to Redweek. Just list them as "available soon" to help people see it a few days before it actually becomes available. A little different than their pending for trade weeks they have now.

Anyway, as good weeks start showing up this week, they will leave as quickly as they come - just like they do own RCI or II. Most people will never see them. I know I am watching daily for anything good that comes along. I assume others are doing the same.


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## PerryM

*Send in the second string OR You can do it...*



thinze3 said:


> Perry
> 
> Possible:
> The people that seem to be leaving the most negative posts here about Redweek, seem to be those that didn't get the offer they think they should have. I don't know if that is the case here or not.
> 
> Or:
> Read my post above and you will see that Redweek is monitoring this BB as well. Being that you have been the most negative person posting on this BB about Redweek - that may have to do something with your offer.
> 
> Or:
> Maybe the week you offered is a week that nobody , including Redweek wants. You call it a "Marriott ski resort." If it is a ski resort completely out of season, it may just be worth nothing, regardless of what Marriott is asking for rent.
> 
> By the way, NOBODY rents full weeks from Marriott, at ANY resort, during ANY season for $5200. There a million ways to beat that; owner rentals, previews, certificates, points, trades, etc..
> 
> I just returned from my Waiohai and "rented" a second room for $1850. I simply bought a 2BR 2BA Signature Villa Award from Marriott and turned it in. Yep, that's right. It was a $4,000 villa if taxes were added in.
> 
> Exactly what resort, with how many BR, and what week did you offer Redweek? I'll tell you what it is worth.




Consider me sitting on the RW side of the football field and watching fumble after fumbler after fumble – what would an interested fan shout?

1)	“You can do it”
2)	“Do it over again – maybe it will work this time”
3)	“Positive thoughts”
4)	“Send in the second string – they can’t be worse”

I’ve been know to shout #4 on both soccer fields and football fields – sometimes the hot shots need a shot in their pants.

I would hope that revenge against a customer is NOT part of RW’s business plan – I’m going to take a wild stab and rule this one out.  The total misalignment of RW Points to rental rates, made to me, was made early – way before I became part of the cheering section.

I’d encourage RW to make their program 100% transparent – tell us how you base that estimate for someone wanting to know what they will get for their deposit.  In the real estate market they are called "Comps" - they justify an appraisal.

I also recommended that ALL exchanges that take place are displayed for all to see – the more transparent you are the more the distinction between RW and RCI/II.  Show the folks what you are doing.

The timeshare exchange market is HUGE – mega bucks.  RW seems to be tackling this on a shoelace budget.  They have instant access to hundreds of high quality exchanges on their own web site.  They should have come in and “seeded” the inventory by buying $1 M (minimum) of inventory and all this would be moot.

But to keep RW’s apparent budget in mind I guess I should be shouting “You can do it”.

P.S.
Just think about that - 1,000 Marriott's for exchange for about $2 M.  RW could already be an article in the Wall Street Journal - your publicist should have these canned articles ready to go.  Go Go RW!!!


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## Jya-Ning

PerryM said:


> The timeshare exchange market is HUGE – mega bucks.  RW seems to be tackling this on a shoelace budget.  They have instant access to hundreds of high quality exchanges on their own web site.  They should have come in and “seeded” the inventory by buying $1 M (minimum) of inventory and all this would be moot.



Let's say they did it.  Now, they need to get these 1M back somewhere later.

Would it be O.K. they take out some of the prime deposit from exchanger and rent it out?

Jya-Ning


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## Jya-Ning

*Just a random thought*

At this moment, they appraisal your week, then they take the week.  This is only part of supply side.  There is no demand side.  I don't see any way to ask for a week.  

So they will serve as a hotel or an wholeseller.  And there maybe very hard for them to be a good appraiser to the value of the week consider there are over 5000 resorts and each one has 52 weeks.

If they truely behavior as an intermidiate like the broker in the stock market, they will just start the initial bid and ask point, and for those who want to deposit, will take a number and state their ask point, for thos who want to take will take a number and state their bid point, and eventually come a way to balance it.  They don't take the week until someone willing to pay for that week.  Then they can readjust the value of the week.  Of course, when they do that, they need to solve the issue why anyone want to put their week in for the bid.

They are taking today's take any deposit model that used by all the exchange company.  So they can determine what they want to attract.  If they just want attract more Disney, they can adjust the point value to say twice as all other resort.  If they want to be DAE, they can adjust the value to be the same across all resort and unit.  If they want to be II, they can put more points for bigger unit.

The exchange world is very different than renting world.  Even for renting world, when the price is given out, I doubt anyone will think this hotel is ridiculous because they only charge twice on this season while others change 3 times on this season at the same area.  Of course, the exchange world has owner's pride in it.  So no matter how they value it, they will be make mistake on a lot of these value.

Since the week that plan to be used for exchange will be expired, the value will eventually drop.  But renting you may never see a hotel budget especially when they just renting owner's week.

On the other hand, even if they really make the right value, how many people will agree that?

Jya-Ning


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## thinze3

Jya-Ning said:


> At this moment, they appraisal your week, then they take the week.  This is only part of supply side.  There is no demand side.  I don't see any way to ask for a week.....   Jya-Ning




Redweek is working on a request system that will give people an early deposit / first come first serve type priority on requests. Give it time. You will see changes coming soon.

Keep posting your ideas and feelings, but be realistic, they are listening.


----------



## Floridaski

*No way Jose'*

I requested a valuation of several unit sizes for Morritts Tortuga Club in Grand Cayman, Hyatt Sunset Harbor, Hyatt Coconut Plantation and Hyatt Beach House. 

The most interesting thing was that Red Week valued my Morritt and Hyatt Key West week at the same 2568 points. Well, the Hyatt Key West 2 bedroom will rent for $450 per night very quickly. The Morritt 2 bedroom will rent for around $200.00. The Morritt week may have trouble getting $200 for a Feb/March week if RCI keeps dumping cheap weeks on Redweek for rent. But, regardless there is no way on the face of earth that I am going to give up a Hyatt winter week in Key West for 2568 points. I would think top end, high value resorts would rate a higher exchange value then a resort like Morritts. I can say this since I own multiple weeks at both resorts. 

I think the 2568 is a good value for Morritts but WAY off the mark for the Hyatt week. Therefore, I am NOT going to deposit any of the weeks at this time. It might be in my benefit to deposit a Morritt week, but based on my experience - I just cannot do it with a good feeling about their current business model.


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## jjking42

Floridaski said:


> I requested a valuation of several unit sizes for Morritts Tortuga Club in Grand Cayman, Hyatt Sunset Harbor, Hyatt Coconut Plantation and Hyatt Beach House.
> 
> The most interesting thing was that Red Week valued my Morritt and Hyatt Key West week at the same 2568 points. Well, the Hyatt Key West 2 bedroom will rent for $450 per night very quickly.
> 
> I think the 2568 is a good value for Morritts but WAY off the mark for the Hyatt week. Therefore, I am NOT going to deposit any of the weeks at this time. It might be in my benefit to deposit a Morritt week, but based on my experience - I just cannot do it with a good feeling about their current business model.



I wonder what the max they have offered anyone. Is it 2568. anyone been offered more. 

There probably has to be some max limit. Owners who own the extreme end of the spectrum (2 bedroom christmas dvc) 2 bedroom Christmas ski weeks etc are almost always trading down . thats why most of these weeks get used or rented. If you deposit them with any exchange company  you are most likely trading down or possible getting two lesser units for the one.

perhaps RW has a limt on the max points for one week anyone know ?

Floriodaski those are vbery nice units you own. it doesnt get much better than that. do you deposit those with the other companies. I would think you would do the best with SFX.


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## thinze3

jjking42 said:


> I wonder what the max they have offered anyone. Is it 2568. anyone been offered more.....




I was offered just under 3000 points six weeks ago for my Marriott Waiohai. I was offered 1800 for my Christie Lodge ski week. I deposited the CL ski week but not the Waiohai.


----------



## PerryM

*Priming that pump...*



Jya-Ning said:


> Let's say they did it.  Now, they need to get these 1M back somewhere later.
> 
> Would it be O.K. they take out some of the prime deposit from exchanger and rent it out?
> 
> Jya-Ning



If RW "primes the pump" with say 200 reservations to the highest quality resorts that average $2,500 for example they would have to pay $500k to rent them from their own web site.  They could have all 200 ready in 2 weeks.

They receive 500,000 RW Points that they will later use to claim reservations and place them back for rent and recover their cost.  Heck they should just about break even and be left with just processing costs.

There is and never was ANY need to approach another company to get inventory - they have tons of it in their computers 24/7.

If RW made their books 100% transparent ANY CPA firm would sign off on the currency system they created; debits = credits.

Once the 500,000 RW Points are exchanged there would be NO further renting.


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## thinze3

PerryM said:


> If RW "primes the pump" with say 200 reservations to the highest quality resorts that average $2,500 for example they would have to pay $500k to rent them from their own web site.  They could have all 200 ready in 2 weeks.
> 
> They receive 500,000 RW Points that they will later use to claim reservations and place them back for rent and recover their cost.  Heck they should just about break even and be left with just processing costs.
> 
> There is and never was ANY need to approach another company to get inventory - they have tons of it in their computers 24/7.
> 
> If RW made their books 100% transparent ANY CPA firm would sign off on the currency system they created; debits = credits.
> 
> Once the 500,000 RW Points are exchanged there would be NO further renting.




It's a thought, but even $500K is a huge some of money for a small company. Priming the pump, as you say, may help things, but so might quality control and visibility on "good" weeks.

Maybe "not-so-good" weeks should be offered even less points or just turned down altogether. Maybe a week worth less than 1000 points should not be considered - I don't know. But truth is, those cheap weeks are equal to RCI's bonus weeks and II's AC's, so maybe they should keep them.

If you have a very high quality resort, you get a good week and a "bonus" week with your points, but that is thinking outside of the box, because RCI & II already have that.

I do like the pump priming idea if Redweek could swing it.

Thought:
Give more priority to the older points as well. Keep all newly depoited weeks available for two to three days to let people line up. You could then let the older points have priority. But if it is not visible it may make some people mad.


----------



## PerryM

*M80 or wet firecracker?*



thinze3 said:


> It's a thought, but even $500K is a huge some of money for a small company. Priming the pump, as you say, may help things, but so might quality control and visibility on "good" weeks.
> 
> Maybe "not-so-good" weeks should be offered even less points or just turned down altogether. Maybe a week worth less than 1000 points should not be considered - I don't know. But truth is, those cheap weeks are equal to RCI's bonus weeks and II's AC's, so maybe they should keep them.
> 
> If you have a very high quality resort, you get a good week and a "bonus" week with your points, but that is thinking outside of the box, because RCI & II already have that.
> 
> I do like the pump priming idea if Redweek could swing it.
> 
> Thought:
> Give more priority to the older points as well. Keep all newly depoited weeks available for two to three days to let people line up. You could then let the older points have priority. But if it is not visible it may make some people mad.



I'm assuming that RW came to this poker game with $10 M at least and that's a very very low ball, shoe string, budget.  They should be coming with $25 M.

They should have aimed for the high end timeshares - the Marriotts, Disneys, Westins, and others.  They should have bought 200 - 500 - 1,000 reservations instantly from their own web site and "Primed the Pump".

Apparently someone at RW has decided to do this with pocket change - they will just fizzle out like a wet firecracker.

Come on RW - let's get this going with an M80 type of blast (I remember when they sold those things - they would put a good sized hole in the ground)

I am rooting for you but I don't mind kicking butts either - I do it all night long.


----------



## bigeyes1

I contacted Redweek to answer a few questions for me.  To summarize it, I asked how the points were determined for the weeks and if they were offering any incentives.  RW's Customer Service response below:



> Thanks for your interest in RedWeek Exchange!
> 
> The valuations are based on a number of factors, including the quality of the resort, location, seasonality, number of existing offers at the resort, and lead-time to check-in.  Because we are taking a risk when we accept a deposit, we do need as much time as possible to move your week.  Therefore, the offers will almost always go down as the check-in date gets closer.  The amount of the decrease depends on many factors as well.
> 
> We are not currently offering any bonus weeks or free memberships.  Our membership fee is substantially lower than that of RCI or II, as is our exchange fee.  We are generally offering higher points values on initital deposits as the incentive to get the program rolling.



Hope this helps.


----------



## Jya-Ning

PerryM said:


> They should have aimed for the high end timeshares - the Marriotts, Disneys, Westins, and others.  They should have bought 200 - 500 - 1,000 reservations instantly from their own web site and "Primed the Pump".



They probably can reduce their risk by asking owner to write down the week they want when submit for valuation.  

Then if there is enough interest, they can know what to rent.

On the other hand, they may want to increase the point value for these so called high end resort, so most of them will be come from exchanger and instead rent the units that in the middle range but has similar or close demand, and in lower rent rate.

As to rent then take inventory back, it will be the same arguement for RCI.  Once they do that, people will claim they intentionally set wrong value so they can get high easy rent week out of their exchange pool.  So although it is doable, I will try to avoid that situation.  

Jya-Ning


----------



## PerryM

Jya-Ning said:


> They probably can reduce their risk by asking owner to write down the week they want when submit for valuation.
> 
> Then if there is enough interest, they can know what to rent.
> 
> On the other hand, they may want to increase the point value for these so called high end resort, so most of them will be come from exchanger and instead rent the units that in the middle range but has similar or close demand, and in lower rent rate.
> 
> *As to rent then take inventory back, it will be the same arguement for RCI.  *Once they do that, people will claim they intentionally set wrong value so they can get high easy rent week out of their exchange pool.  So although it is doable, I will try to avoid that situation.
> 
> Jya-Ning



I'm glad you brought this up - there is a word of difference.

RCI is secretive and does NOT want to let members know exactly what is going on.

RW, on the other hand, can be 100% transparent and keep track of the "Prime the Pump" inventory and let members know that they will be removing a "Like for like" units out to repay their initial seed inventory.

If, for instance, RW rented 200 Marriotts and 200 Westins then they eventually will reclaim 200 Marriotts and 200 Westins - not one more unit.  It's up to RW to state what they are doing AHEAD of time and I don't think the wild rumors will hit.  Also, those initial reservations will total up to an amount that must be paid back - again make it public and the wild rumors will not start.

As a consumer I just want a "Level playing field" and don't expect anything else.


----------



## thinze3

PerryM said:


> I'm assuming that RW came to this poker game with $10 M at least and that's a very very low ball, shoe string, budget.  They should be coming with $25 M.......QUOTE]
> 
> Perry,
> I honestly do not think that RW came to the table with $10 M!!
> 
> If I had to guess, I believe that RW is a site created in someone's living room that has grown into a leading timeshare site. ...... (more power to them if this is the case) ......  Anything with an " $?M " is probably totally out of the question, without the help of one of the Big Boys.
> 
> Who knows, maybe that is where DAE comes in!


----------



## PerryM

*B movie so far*



thinze3 said:


> PerryM said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that RW came to this poker game with $10 M at least and that's a very very low ball, shoe string, budget.  They should be coming with $25 M.......QUOTE]
> 
> Perry,
> I honestly do not think that RW came to the table with $10 M!!
> 
> If I had to guess, I believe that RW is a site created in someone's living room that has grown into a leading timeshare site. ...... (more power to them if this is the case) ......  Anything with an " $?M " is probably totally out of the question, without the help of one of the Big Boys.
> 
> Who knows, maybe that is where DAE comes in!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree - it sure is starting to look like a "B" movie to me (Are there "C" movies?).
> 
> I sure hope this doesn't turn into one of those Frankenstein movies where the film is shot in someone's basement.  Although the move "300" was totally shot on one sound stage - never left the place.
Click to expand...


----------



## BocaBum99

Perry,

I agree with the need to prime the pump.  I think they did it by agreeing to shared inventory with DAE.  What we don't know are the details of the agreement between DAE and RW.  That's fine, that is proprietary.

What we do know is that DAE is not a charitable organization and is getting something in return for access to their inventory and their inventory management system.  Hopefully, it's just 1/2 of the exchange fee, a management fee and access to any joint technology developed.  That would be the best outcome for RW depositers.

I don't think that Redweek will prime the pump the way you are suggesting.  It would cost them way too much in upfront capital.  The way they have it set up now, they have NOTHING at risk for assigning any value they want.  If an owner gets no exchange, then the points will simply expire down the road.  That scenario doesn't bode well for a depositer, but there is no financial risk to RW.

But, most depositers know that they are the ones bearing the risk, so they are not depositing until they see something they want.

In addition, when Redweek primes the pump, they only get the exchange fee in return.  If they were a rental company, they could get access to lots lof cheap inventory and rent it at the market level.  That would probably yield a much higher rate than the exchange fee.  I doubt that RW wants to take on the inventory risk.

If they were a big rental company, they would.  But since they aren't yet, they won't bear the risk.


----------



## tashamen

*Problem with multiple unit valuations*

I won't even pretend to have read all the posts in this thread, so perhaps someone else has figured out a better way to do this.  How do you get valuations from Redweek for more than one week or resort at a time? 

I own Club Intrawest points, and since we have no home resort I wanted to submit several potential weeks from various CI resorts to Redweek for valuation to see whether I might actually consider a deposit.  Yesterday I followed the link from their e-mail to do so, and after I submitted one, I kept going and submitted several.  At no point did it say that I could only submit one at a time!  Today I got a valuation e-mail - but it was only for the last potential week I submitted, and not for any of the others.  I do not have the time or patience to submit just one of these per day!

I'm sure I can e-mail them to find out if it's possible to get values for several weeks at once, but needed to vent first!


----------



## Sydney

LisaH said:


> One interesting thing I found out was when I tried to submit my friend's week at WIVC Coral Mar, I got an instant message saying "Sorry, we are not currently accepting weeks for this resort". Apparently this is a DAE affiliated resort and there are already many weeks listed on RW. Seems like they don't accept all the weeks that are offered...


The same thing happened to me yet when I emailed them about it, they have no idea what I'm talking about and say that there is no record that I tried submitting and failed with the above message. I'm emailing back and forth trying to explain to them to no avail. I would be interested in when they plan to accept my resorts which are in Australia if it is true that they currently do not accept them. It's a bit silly though particularly since I can see that they do have my resorts available for exchange.


----------



## mjs

jjking42 said:


> I wonder what the max they have offered anyone. Is it 2568. anyone been offered more.
> 
> I have been offered 3850 for a 2 bed lock-off.  It is a prime week in the carribean.  I usually rent it, but I may deposit it to get multiple weeks.


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## thinze3

mjs said:


> I have been offered 3850 for a 2 bed lock-off.  It is a prime week in the carribean.  I usually rent it, but I may deposit it to get multiple weeks.





I was offered just under 3000 points for my Marriott Waiohai 7 weeks ago during their "soft" opening.

From the values I see coming out now, it appears the offers are higher now than they were then. It may be a good time to deposit.


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## Phill12

thinze3 said:


> I was offered just under 3000 points for my Marriott Waiohai 7 weeks ago during their "soft" opening.
> 
> From the values I see coming out now, it appears the offers are higher now than they were then. It may be a good time to deposit.




 Probably the reason for more points is you didn't bite at the 3000 points!

 Right now Redweek has no Hawaii of any kind of resort in their inventory and they have seen this stated many times! They also need to get higher rated resorts to make their exchange system work!


You have already made a good deposit to RW and if it was me I would wait and see what you get for that Colorado unit first!


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## normalrog

*How Long To Get a Quote?*

Generally, how long is it taking to get a quote?  Thanks.  Roger Elliott.


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## Phill12

normalrog said:


> Generally, how long is it taking to get a quote?  Thanks.  Roger Elliott.



 I had one back within 24 hours!  :whoopie:


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## PerryM

*Plastic pineapple upside cake?*

I tuned back in to the RedWeek channel today and discovered:

1) 5 pages of North America exchanges still remains constant for 4 weeks now

2) 27 total NA pages, or 22 pages of "Provisional" deposits out there - many are juicy weeks

Has anyone gotten one of these Provisional units as a rental?

This is teasing in my book - it's like walking into a nice restaurant and they show you the dessert platter - all plastic goodies but they sure look real and delicious.

I clicked the "Notify Me" button and my PC locked up for 2 minutes and finally recovered.  I guess I'll be notified at some point if the owner want's to deposit the week.


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## DTLE949

*Marriott Signature Villa Award*



thinze3 said:


> Perry
> 
> I just returned from my Waiohai and "rented" a second room for $1850. I simply bought a 2BR 2BA Signature Villa Award from Marriott and turned it in. Yep, that's right. It was a $4,000 villa if taxes were added in.



Hi,
Can you give us more information on this Award purchase?  How do you purchase it? Do you call Marriott directly? Can anybody make the purchase or it is only for selected buyers?
Thanks 
Trang


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## PeelBoy

There are hundreds of provisional weeks, including 10 at Atlantis.

The dream will come true, if these weeks will become confirmed.


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## BocaBum99

PeelBoy said:


> There are hundreds of provisional weeks, including 10 at Atlantis.
> 
> The dream will come true, if these weeks will become confirmed.



It sounds like a request first model they are implementing.  This could help them out a lot.  I don't have time to check it out.  But, it's promising.


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## rsackett

Just thought I would revive an old thread with some new info.

I just got offers for my two Marriott units.  Here they are:


1,937 RedWeek Exchange Points (valid for 3 years) 
Resort: Marriott's Manor Club at Ford's Colony 
Check-in Date: Jul 04, 2010 
Unit Type: 2 Bedroom 
Sleeps: 6 


1,816 RedWeek Exchange Points (valid for 3 years) 
Resort: Marriott's Harbour Point at Shelter Cove 
Check-in Date: Aug 07, 2010 
Unit Type: 2 Bedroom 
Sleeps: 6 


The manor Club is about 100 points below what I was offered for the July 4 week two years ago.  I have never got  a points value for the Harbour Point week before.  I thought a summer Hilton Head week would be worth more points than a Williamsburg week, but I was wrong.  I do not plan on depositing with them.

Ray


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## krj9999

To me, there is too little inventory in RedWeek points and too high a variability of points needed to exchange (as well as points offered to deposit) to make this program worthwhile for many.  I checked point values for weeks I'm in the process of purchasing, and was disappointed in points offered.  Hawaii also seems to be tremendously overvalued in RedWeek points, IMO.


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