# Is the US killing off tourism?



## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

In a time when getting tourists back will be hard is the US trying to kill it off?  More cases then any other country and more violence then most.  It will be a while before I bring my family back.  My sons are 7 and we have visited all over Florida a few times, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, Vegas and LA.  Our next trip is Hawaii for September but does not look promising. After that we were going to do Yellowstone and then a cruise to Alaska.  Lots to see and visit but at the risk or being infected caught in the middle of a violent situation we will choose to stay away for the time being.


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## beejaybeeohio (Jun 14, 2020)

News reports from the US can have a chilling effect not only on foreign tourists but citizens. Your plans for this September are likely moot due to Covid. As far as 'violence' please remember that most protests are peaceful. I am grateful to live in a country that allows demonstrations- in 2018 I "Marched for Our Lives" in our suburban community. The terrorist attacks in Nice and Paris did not keep us from travelling there.

I think that if one avoids potential trouble spots and hot spots, visiting the US should be as safe as previously.


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## Monykalyn (Jun 14, 2020)

am1 said:


> In a time when getting tourists back will be hard is the US trying to kill it off?  More cases then any other country and more violence then most.  It will be a while before I bring my family back.  My sons are 7 and we have visited all over Florida a few times, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, Vegas and LA.  Our next trip is Hawaii for September but does not look promising. After that we were going to do Yellowstone and then a cruise to Alaska.  Lots to see and visit but at the risk or being infected caught in the middle of a violent situation we will choose to stay away for the time being.


That’s a good point and probably a matter of perspective as well. In this age of instant information news outlets try to gin up revenue by only having the most sensationalist news and making it seem as if it is the norm. OTOH the fast news cycle means you can usually also find more local newspapers and channels to see what is actually happening on local level where you plan to visit. 
I guess it boils down to being as informed as possible and your risk level.


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## turkel (Jun 14, 2020)

Hate to say it but what is currently going on here is detestable . Terrorist attacks would 100% effect my traveling choice.

If we were only having peaceful protests there would be no issue.
Will we still travel within the US? Yes. But to each his own.


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## Cornell (Jun 14, 2020)

My daughter's host family in Switzerland had hoped to visit the US this upcoming year.  They emailed me this week saying they are rethinking b/c "they don't like what's going on in the US".  

Last night I was downtown (Chicago) and the entire city is filled with boarded up buildings.  One of Chicago's attractions is it's beauty - especially in the summertime.  I find it sad, depressing, anxiety-inducing and awful.  If I had someone asking me "should I visit Chicago?", I'd probably steer them away from it and I'm one of the biggest "homers" there is.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 14, 2020)

Thankfully, our national parks continue to be a world away from the idiocy we see reported on the news these days.  You mentioned Yellowstone @am1 - don't pass that up!  Nothing cleanses the system like nature and while I know Canada is awash in natural beauty and wonder, one can never get too much of that.


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Thankfully, our national parks continue to be a world away from the idiocy we see reported on the news these days.  You mentioned Yellowstone @am1 - don't pass that up!  Nothing cleanses the system like nature and while I know Canada is awash in natural beauty and wonder, one can never get too much of that.



We were going to do Yellowstone this spring but using miles we could get a stopover outside USA/Canada.  No direct flights from Cancun etc to a Yellowstone airport but there is Cancun - Calgary.  So went with two nights in Cancun then direct to Calgary Bnaff, Jasper, Edmonton with an overnight in Toronto to see family then back home.  But all the planning for nothing.  Now that my sons are older national park/Hawaii destinations can be a little easier as long as they have their ipads.  Then eventually it may be back to cities when they can appreciate more then playgrounds, kids museums and observation towers.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 14, 2020)

We've decided to stop visiting the US two years ago after over a decade of annual travel. It's not just the protests (we have them in the UK) but it is the general violence and crime levels that are the main reasons. Having travelled much of the world I have only experienced hostility and threatening behaviour on three occasions, all of which were in the US. I've also witnessed violence but not been the subject on many more occasions.

I'm not a prude nor timid, I'm a former police officer so I've experienced more than my fair share of violence and abuse but I don't want it when I'm on holiday and I don't want my family to experience it. 

There are other reasons why the US no longer interests us but the primary reason is the violence and crime.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 14, 2020)

Pompey Family said:


> We've decided to stop visiting the US two years ago after over a decade of annual travel. It's not just the protests (we have them in the UK) but it is the general violence and crime levels that are the main reasons. Having travelled much of the world I have only experienced hostility and threatening behaviour on three occasions, all of which were in the US. I've also witnessed violence but not been the subject on many more occasions.
> 
> I'm not a prude nor timid, I'm a former police officer so I've experienced more than my fair share of violence and abuse *but I don't want it when I'm on holiday and I don't want my family to experience it*.
> 
> There are other reasons why the US no longer interests us but the primary reason is the violence and crime.



Absolutely understandable - and I share that sentiment with you.  Out of curiosity, (generally speaking) where did these experiences take place?


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## Cornell (Jun 14, 2020)

Pompey Family said:


> We've decided to stop visiting the US two years ago after over a decade of annual travel. It's not just the protests (we have them in the UK) but it is the general violence and crime levels that are the main reasons. Having travelled much of the world I have only experienced hostility and threatening behaviour on three occasions, all of which were in the US. I've also witnessed violence but not been the subject on many more occasions.
> 
> I'm not a prude nor timid, I'm a former police officer so I've experienced more than my fair share of violence and abuse but I don't want it when I'm on holiday and I don't want my family to experience it.
> 
> There are other reasons why the US no longer interests us but the primary reason is the violence and crime.


YUP -- Here is what went on in Chicago 2 weeks ago.  This barely registers on the national news.









						85 shot, 24 fatally, over Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2020
					

More than half of the weekend’s victims were shot on Sunday as the city reeled from violent protests Saturday night that led to hundreds of arrests and the implementation of a curfew.




					chicago.suntimes.com


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## Tia (Jun 14, 2020)

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read your post about boarded up downtown Chicago -> I had missed this on national news



Cornell said:


> YUP -- Here is what went on in Chicago 2 weeks ago.  This barely registers on the national news.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bbodb1 (Jun 14, 2020)

Tia said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking when I read your post about boarded up downtown Chicago -> I had missed this on national news



This is exactly what should be front and center of the national news - in this article was another one that needs a LOT more attention as well:









						18 murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago
					

‘We’ve never seen anything like it at all,’ said Max Kapustin, the senior research director at the University of Chicago Crime Lab.




					chicago.suntimes.com


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## Cornell (Jun 14, 2020)

@bbodb1 I have so much to say on this topic but will refrain from doing so as I don't want to stray into anything "socially contentious" on TUG.

Bottom line is that I don't feel particularly safe in my hometown these days.


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

A few years ago it was Europe all over the news with bombings and trucks hitting tourists.  Thankfully less is heard of that now.


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## pedro47 (Jun 14, 2020)

I have not read or heard on the news  one tourist attack in the United States or in the World. Protest yes! 

The last terrorist attack in the United States was 9/11/2001.


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## Cornell (Jun 14, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> I have not read or heard on the news  one tourist attack in the United States or in the World. Protest yes!
> 
> The last terrorist attack in the United States was 9/11/2001.


What?  There have been dozens of terrorist attacks in the US since 2001.


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## Country Roads (Jun 14, 2020)

Interesting question however, tourist still travel to Mexico.

Five Mexican states currently are designated by the U.S. State Department as Level 4, which is “Do Not Visit”. By the way, the same designation for Iraq. Eleven other Mexican states, surrounding Mexico City, are designated as Level 3, “Reconsider Travel". Mexico as a whole however, was designated back in December, 2019, as Level 2. Of course, “Exercise Increased Caution”. Acapulco for example is perhaps one of the most dangerous states in Mexico. Remember though, once you’re in Acapulco things tend to be very safe. 

In America, like in Mexico, known tourist areas are kept pretty safe.


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## pedro47 (Jun 14, 2020)

Cornell said:


> What?  There have been dozens of terrorist attacks in the US since 2001.


You are correct Cornell.
That 9/11 attack force me to retire in November 2001.
Enough was Enough..


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> I have not read or heard on the news  one tourist attack in the United States or in the World. Protest yes!
> 
> The last terrorist attack in the United States was 9/11/2001.



Not to go too far off topic but I would call last night in Atlanta a terrorist attack.  Others may see it differently and that is fine.


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## Conan (Jun 14, 2020)

am1 said:


> Not to go too far off topic but I would call last night in Atlanta a terrorist attack.  Others may see it differently and that is fine.


Here we go again.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 14, 2020)

am1 said:


> In a time when getting tourists back will be hard is the US trying to kill it off?  More cases then any other country and more violence then most.  It will be a while before I bring my family back.  My sons are 7 and we have visited all over Florida a few times, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, Vegas and LA.  Our next trip is Hawaii for September but does not look promising. After that we were going to do Yellowstone and then a cruise to Alaska.  Lots to see and visit but at the risk or being infected caught in the middle of a violent situation we will choose to stay away for the time being.



Do you think things have really changed? The US has had higher much deaths by homicide than most developed countries for a long time. The most recent stats I could find had the US neck and neck for homicide rate with paragons of safety like Angola and Cuba. Intentional homicide rate in the USA is ~3-6 times higher than comparable countries like Canada, the UK and Australia.

Maybe that is just your perspective catching up to the reality? I go to the USA regularly (and will again) but I think the risk of facing violence or crime as a tourist is much higher there than other countries. I've been a lot of places and have only been hit up for bribes in Egypt and the USA. And the USA also is my most aggressive panhandling experience. There is a lot going for the US, but it's not an especially safe country by international standards.









						List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




(I think it's relevant to point out here that I blend in with the majority population in the USA in basically every way. People generally guess I'm from Minnesota.)


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

A lot more in your face now and it seems to becoming more normal.  Throw in the economy going forward and its a recipe to worry.  Yes NYC is a lot safer then in the 70's so I have been told.  We do not stay out late as we have young kids and it is a lot safer before dark.  Thankfully never personally had a problem.  But do not want to find one either.  Thankfully there will be lots of options inside our country and outside and we are flexible.  Well based on using airline miles and hotel points and free offers (Atlantis).  

A big draw for us is the shopping.  Clothes/shoes/food in person and school books/electronics on amazon and ranching supplies/equipment from their online stores.  What we save in shipping or buying locally if possible offsets the taxes/fees of the airline tickets.


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## Country Roads (Jun 14, 2020)

bizaro86 said:


> (I think it's relevant to point out here that I blend in with the majority population in the USA in basically every way. People generally guess I'm from Minnesota.)



A very interesting way of saying you're white, whatever that has do with it. Why the reference to Minnesota?


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> A very interesting way of saying you're white, whatever that has do with it. Why the reference to Minnesota?



Probably the go to state that Americans think white Canadians are from.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 14, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> A very interesting way of saying you're white, whatever that has do with it. Why the reference to Minnesota?



Accent. Americans typically think I'm from the midwest based on the accent I speak English with. I wasn't intending to bring race into it, although I can see how it could be taken that way. My point was that I blend in to the population in the USA quite a bit better than I do somewhere like Egypt. I speak the language, wear similar clothes, etc. Generally speaking one would expect blending in with the locals to make risky encounters less likely, but that hasn't been my experience. Maybe countries where I'm more obviously a tourist result in me getting a "non-authentic" experience, as many economies are very dependent on tourism.


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## bizaro86 (Jun 14, 2020)

Also, I should add that I have no beef with the US. It's a great country, and I might immigrate there if I ever get sick enough of the weather here. The US doesnt get enough credit for some of the ways it benefits the rest of the world. 

Just as one example, the US health care system funds basically all the drug research in the world. Everyone else benefits from the new drugs that US consumers and insurers have paid for. A lot of great technology has also come from the US that everyone in the world benefits from.

So I have a great deal of respect for the USA (and especially for the people there).


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## am1 (Jun 14, 2020)

bizaro86 said:


> Also, I should add that I have no beef with the US. It's a great country, and I might immigrate there if I ever get sick enough of the weather here. The US doesnt get enough credit for some of the ways it benefits the rest of the world.
> 
> Just as one example, the US health care system funds basically all the drug research in the world. Everyone else benefits from the new drugs that US consumers and insurers have paid for. A lot of great technology has also come from the US that everyone in the world benefits from.
> 
> So I have a great deal of respect for the USA (and especially for the people there).



Likewise other then might immigrate there.  Cannot afford the taxes on outside income.


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## Talent312 (Jun 14, 2020)

I wanna say, the places in the U.S. where we tend to go are not strife or crime ridden:
Marco Island, Orlando theme parks, Gatlinburg, New England, Colorado, Yellowstone...

I had a pickpocket attempt in Florence and my DW's wallet was stolen in London.
IOW, bad thing can happen anywhere; just don't be careless.

.


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## isisdave (Jun 14, 2020)

I think a lot of Minnesotans sound "aboot" the same as midwestern Canadians.


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## jabberwocky (Jun 14, 2020)

There are a lot of historical linkages between the US Midwest and western Canada.  A large wave of immigrants (or emigrants depending on your side of the border) moved from MN, SD, ND, NE etc in around the 1880-1915 or so period and ended up settling in what would become southern SK, AB and MB. When I moved to the US for grad school in the Midwest everyone thought I was from MN at first. It’s not surprising that as a descendant of one of those immigrants that I would look and sound similar.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 14, 2020)

isisdave said:


> I think a lot of Minnesotans sound "aboot" the same as midwestern Canadians.



_Eh?_


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## geist1223 (Jun 14, 2020)

Back in the day folks in Minnesota and other Border States would move freely to Canada and back. My paternal grandparents grew up in Minnesota. Then in the mid 1920's the moved to Sask and became wheat farmers. My Dad and 2 Aunts were born in Canada. Grandpa died when Dad (born 1929) was about 12. They stayed in Canada for another 6 or 7 years and then moved back to Minnesota. Dad served for 22 years in the US Navy


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## CPNY (Jun 14, 2020)

Cornell said:


> My daughter's host family in Switzerland had hoped to visit the US this upcoming year.  They emailed me this week saying they are rethinking b/c "they don't like what's going on in the US".
> 
> Last night I was downtown (Chicago) and the entire city is filled with boarded up buildings.  One of Chicago's attractions is it's beauty - especially in the summertime.  I find it sad, depressing, anxiety-inducing and awful.  If I had someone asking me "should I visit Chicago?", I'd probably steer them away from it and I'm one of the biggest "homers" there is.


That’s how I feel about nyc. I have been in Florida since May and I’m extremely happy I made the decision to come here for a bit. Nyc has lost its appeal after EVERYTHING.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

CPNY said:


> That’s how I feel about nyc. I have been in Florida since May and I’m extremely happy I made the decision to come here for a bit. Nyc has lost its appeal after EVERYTHING.


In 2018, we drove the from New Jersey to upstate New York.  With five lanes of interstate both ways and the asphalt/concrete jungle as a constant backdrop, if I never get to NYC that will be fine by me.
People were not meant to live like that.


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## CPNY (Jun 15, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> In 2018, we drove the from New Jersey to upstate New York.  With five lanes of interstate both ways and the asphalt/concrete jungle as a constant backdrop, if I never get to NYC that will be fine by me.
> People were not meant to live like that.


Lol. It’s fine when you can come and go. I’ve been blessed to always have a car living in nyc. Without one I don’t think I would be able to do it and I grew up there! It blows my mind know people there without cars and can never get out.


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## Country Roads (Jun 15, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> In 2018, we drove the from New Jersey to upstate New York.  With five lanes of interstate both ways and the asphalt/concrete jungle as a constant backdrop, if I never get to NYC that will be fine by me.
> People were not meant to live like that.


And yet they still flock to do so.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> And yet they still flock to do so.


Oh, I realize it is one of those Que Sera Sera things, but I guess I just can't see the forest through the buildings.....


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## Luanne (Jun 15, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Lol. It’s fine when you can come and go. I’ve been blessed to always have a car living in nyc. Without one I don’t think I would be able to do it and I grew up there! It blows my mind know people there without cars and can never get out.


Dh lived in Manhatten for quite a few years.  He found it incredibly expensive to keep a car there when he wasn't using it much.  He ended up getting rid of it and then just renting a car when he wanted to get out.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Just to be complete here, I do want to restate how much I enjoyed upstate New York.  It seems so eerie to be away from it all as fast as things seem to thin out going north of the NYC area, but the area along the U.S. - Canadian border in New York and Vermont seem worlds away from NYC.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 15, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Absolutely understandable - and I share that sentiment with you.  Out of curiosity, (generally speaking) where did these experiences take place?



Atlanta, Cincinnatti, Philadelphia and one that I'd forgotten to add, Atlantic City. Those were the places that the hostility was directed towards me. General violence to others I've experienced in many places.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 15, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> The last terrorist attack in the United States was 9/11/2001.



Here you go Pedro, a bit of a refresher for your knowledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States


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## am1 (Jun 15, 2020)

I would call what going on in Seattle a terrorist attack.  But (almost) everyone is just happy to stand by and watch.


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## Luanne (Jun 15, 2020)

am1 said:


> I would call what going on in Seattle a terrorist attack.  But everyone is just happy to stand by and watch.


You're making a lot of assumptions there.


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## Conan (Jun 15, 2020)

> Not to go too far off topic but I would call last night in Atlanta a terrorist attack. Others may see it differently and that is fine.





> I would call what going on in Seattle a terrorist attack.  But (almost) everyone is just happy to stand by and watch.


I saw this coming when you started this topic yesterday, just to hijack it.
Why do you do this?


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Conan said:


> I saw this coming when you started this topic yesterday, just to hijack it.
> Why do you do this?


I'm going back to the OP for reference:


am1 said:


> In a time when getting tourists back will be hard is the US trying to kill it off?  More cases then any other country and more violence then most.  It will be a while before I bring my family back.  My sons are 7 and we have visited all over Florida a few times, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, Vegas and LA.  Our next trip is Hawaii for September but does not look promising. After that we were going to do Yellowstone and then a cruise to Alaska.  Lots to see and visit but at the risk or being infected caught in the middle of a violent situation we will choose to stay away for the time being.



Events transpiring in many larger U.S. cities certainly are not a boon to tourism.  If the value of our TS destinations (especially those in larger, urban areas) are negatively impacted, that is hitting close to home for all of us with a vested interest in timeshares.  Protests are one thing but the tacit allowance of rioting and looting has to have made a negative impact with respect to many of our cities as desirable places to visit.  We all need normalcy, law and order restored - and a creation that these trends are likely to continue - before tourism can return the the levels it was prior to all of this.  

How many times have we (as a community) discussed the viability of visiting location Z decreasing because of the events transpiring there?
It hurts to see the U.S. enduring this, but it is a fact we have to face don't you think, @Conan ?


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## Brett (Jun 15, 2020)

Monykalyn said:


> That’s a good point and probably a matter of perspective as well. In this age of instant information news outlets try to gin up revenue by only having the most sensationalist news and making it seem as if it is the norm. OTOH the fast news cycle means you can usually also find more local newspapers and channels to see what is actually happening on local level where you plan to visit.
> I guess it boils down to being as informed as possible and your risk level.



yes, the US does indeed rank the highest in gun violence in developed countries.

But like the other poster said, if you "*blend in*" and go to national parks you will probably survive


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Brett said:


> yes, the US does indeed rank the highest in gun violence in developed countries.
> 
> But like the other poster said, if you "*blend in*" and go to national parks you will probably survive


As long as you don't climb things beyond your ability and / or wonder off the trail, you should be very safe.  
.
.
...but carry bear spray!


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## Monykalyn (Jun 15, 2020)

Brett said:


> yes, the US does indeed rank the highest in gun violence in developed countries.
> 
> But like the other poster said, if you "*blend in*" and go to national parks you will probably survive


Eh-my mixed race sister, niece and her partner have managed to blend in in Missouri-and in St Louis without violence. 
But my family is going to a national park this summer too 
The "flyover" middle of the country often gets lost in the "glamour" of the coasts.  Northwest Arkansas has absolutely stunning natural beauty and fishing and hiking - OTOH forget I said that   . The badlands and National and state parks in South Dakota,Montana and Wyoming are stunning as well. Lake of the Ozarks (don't believe that a single snapshot of sensationalistic journalism is the ENITRE area) is gorgeous for outdoor recreation and plenty of quiet spots for boating/floating/camping.
As far as gun violence-yeah that is outrageous and horrible etc. If this country cared 1/10th as much and had as much social will to shut it down and fear as it does of Covid 19 we would be the SAFEST country in world.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Monykalyn said:


> ..
> But my family is going to a national park this summer too ...


Ooh, ooh!  Which one (if I may ask)?


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## Monykalyn (Jun 20, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Ooh, ooh!  Which one (if I may ask)?


Badlands, Mount Rushmore and we will also go to Devils Tower. Plus South Dakota has some great state parks.


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## SteelerGal (Jun 21, 2020)

Yes, the current Civil Rights Unrest is affecting tourism because of perception that it’s all about rioting.  It’s truly far from it but the media has a job and know most ppl tend to accept the image instead of researching the why.  
As an AA woman, I would still fill more comfortable in an urban setting because of diversity.  I can not say the same for non diversified areas.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 21, 2020)

SteelerGal said:


> Yes, the current Civil Rights Unrest is affecting tourism because of perception that it’s all about rioting.  It’s truly far from it but the media has a job and know most ppl tend to accept the image instead of researching the why.



It is not solely the rioting that concerns me, it is the increase in shootings in urban areas everywhere that has my attention.  To express this in a math like fashion, as the concentration of people in an area increases, my desire to be in that area decreases exponentially.   

But to directly respond to the point above, there is certainly protesting occurring without rioting (and that may even be true the majority of the time), but rioting is always born from protesting.  And even protesting that does not degenerate into rioting often causes property damage.  At least from my perspective, this is why I will avoid areas where protests occur both now and for quite some time in the future.  

I think perhaps that more than any time I can recall in my life, living and traveling as rural as possible and practical looks extremely attractive to me.  I think Agent K was right.


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## Cornell (Jun 21, 2020)

@bbodb1 56 shot, 9 fatally, so far this weekend in Chicago

The fatalities included a 3-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl killed in separate shootings

This will register on no ones radar outside of Chicago


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## SteelerGal (Jun 21, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> It is not solely the rioting that concerns me, it is the increase in shootings in urban areas everywhere that has my attention.  To express this in a math like fashion, as the concentration of people in an area increases, my desire to be in that area decreases exponentially.
> 
> But to directly respond to the point above, there is certainly protesting occurring without rioting (and that may even be true the majority of the time), but rioting is always born from protesting.  And even protesting that does not degenerate into rioting often causes property damage.  At least from my perspective, this is why I will avoid areas where protests occur both now and for quite some time in the future.
> 
> I think perhaps that more than any time I can recall in my life, living and traveling as rural as possible and practical looks extremely attractive to me.  I think Agent K was right.


It depends on which urban area.  We live in SoCal closer to Disneyland, yet I feel safer in LA.  Diversity matters especially when you are POC.  I am AA.   
Rural America is not safe for my family and I.


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## Cornell (Jun 21, 2020)

SteelerGal said:


> It depends on which urban area.  We live in SoCal closer to Disneyland, yet I feel safer in LA.  Diversity matters especially when you are POC.  I am AA.
> Rural America is not safe for my family and I.


That’s an interesting perspective. TY for offering that up .


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## turkel (Jun 21, 2020)

Cornell said:


> @bbodb1 56 shot, 9 fatally, so far this weekend in Chicago
> 
> The fatalities included a 3-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl killed in separate shootings
> 
> This will register on no ones radar outside of Chicago


Every time I hear about the violence in Chicago I just can’t understand why anyone would live there.


SteelerGal said:


> It depends on which urban area.  We live in SoCal closer to Disneyland, yet I feel safer in LA.  Diversity matters especially when you are POC.  I am AA.
> Rural America is not safe for my family and I.


Are you saying you don’t feel comfortable in OC? My home is in south OC. I can’t imagine anyone not feeling safe there. I have a very diversified family from San Diego to Long Beach no race issues. My own children have had more “issues” (discrimination from supposed friends) based on religion than my family.

All I can say is what we teach our children is important.


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## beejaybeeohio (Jun 22, 2020)

Clearly I am not AA. The color of my skin is that of the majority of U.S. citizens. So while I have never worn the shoes of my black sisters, I do understand that in many, many places- urban, suburban or rural- at minimum there is a sense of unease when skin color (or dress such as an habib) makes one stand out from the others.

The closest situation to what AA persons might experience occurred for my DH and another couple when we walked into a small diner in a tiny upstate NY village. We were given the long stare from the other patrons for what seemed like minutes. Their demeanor told us we were not welcome in their neck of the woods. Since there were 4 of us we did stay, and service was fine, but it was a very uncomfortable experience.

What happened once for us I suspect happens daily for our fellow AA citizens.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2020)

FWIW: I do not feel at ease in _*any *_situation where I am in proximity with person(s) I do not know.  
That is human nature, an instinct refined by one of the first lessons we are taught from our earliest days: _*stranger, danger.*_
Every human interaction is potentially fraught with peril until all parties take some action to put others at ease.  
Familiarity. Common courtesy. Manners.  Respect.  Ethics.  
All of these can go a long way toward breaking the tension that exists.  
And they are in short supply these days - and getting shorter - as a result of the riots and the continual focus on group identity.


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## Country Roads (Jun 22, 2020)

Cornell said:


> @bbodb1 56 shot, 9 fatally, so far this weekend in Chicago
> 
> The fatalities included a 3-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl killed in separate shootings
> 
> This will register on no ones radar outside of Chicago



"Although Chicago is probably the first city that springs to mind when you think of crime in Illinois, the Windy City is actually not the most dangerous place in the state. With a violent crime rate of 1,386 incidents per 100,000 people, Rockford stands as the most dangerous city in Illinois."

"Despite economic revitalization efforts creating new jobs in the automotive, aerospace, and healthcare industries over the last few decades, Rockford continues to struggle economically. Both its unemployment rate (6.8%) and poverty rate (22.2%) sit well above national averages."









						25 Most Dangerous Cities In the US - MapQuest Travel
					

You may want to exercise caution if you’re thinking of traveling to one of the following 25 cities in the US!




					www.escapehere.com
				





It seems that Chicago's criminal element must work harder if they wish to reach one of the top spots. As it stands now, there are 10 cities ahead in the race for most dangerous city. Yes, it came to a shock to me as well. I must admit that it was no surprise to see my hometown of Baltimore far ahead. This of course being the reason I no longer wish to visit that destination. Crime is simply running rampant and city leaders continue to turn a blind eye to it.

I wonder what it would be like if, like the current rallying cry, these cities bow to the protestors and defund law enforcement.


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## JanT (Jun 22, 2020)

Well the U.S. might not be killing off tourism but with everything going on around the country I'm pretty sure many non-U.S. tourists might think twice before coming here for vacation.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 22, 2020)

Chicago shootings: 78 shot, 11 fatally,including 4 children, in violence weekend
					

Eleven people were killed, including four children, and more than 60 others wounded in shootings across Chicago over the weekend, police said.




					abc7chicago.com


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## am1 (Jun 22, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> "Although Chicago is probably the first city that springs to mind when you think of crime in Illinois, the Windy City is actually not the most dangerous place in the state. With a violent crime rate of 1,386 incidents per 100,000 people, Rockford stands as the most dangerous city in Illinois."
> 
> "Despite economic revitalization efforts creating new jobs in the automotive, aerospace, and healthcare industries over the last few decades, Rockford continues to struggle economically. Both its unemployment rate (6.8%) and poverty rate (22.2%) sit well above national averages."
> 
> ...



Not a city but CHAZ or whatever the terrorists are calling it now has the highest nationally in only a weeks of existent.  Endorsement from the mayor of Seattle and others.


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## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> It is not solely the rioting that concerns me, it is the increase in shootings in urban areas everywhere that has my attention.  To express this in a math like fashion, as the concentration of people in an area increases, my desire to be in that area decreases exponentially.
> 
> But to directly respond to the point above, there is certainly protesting occurring without rioting (and that may even be true the majority of the time), but rioting is always born from protesting.  And even protesting that does not degenerate into rioting often causes property damage.  At least from my perspective, this is why I will avoid areas where protests occur both now and for quite some time in the future.
> 
> I think perhaps that more than any time I can recall in my life, living and traveling as rural as possible and practical looks extremely attractive to me.  I think Agent K was right.



Yes, I agree. We moved to a semi-rural small town near Auburn, California and have been staying out here. We are far from any rioting. The only thing I see so far are petitions to recall our governor due to the mask mandate. The rural folks want to do what they want and do not want to be forced to wear masks. I would say that is a small minority out here as I am guessing 75% of people are wearing masks now, up from about 50% before the mandate.


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## TravelTime (Jun 22, 2020)

SteelerGal said:


> It depends on which urban area.  We live in SoCal closer to Disneyland, yet I feel safer in LA.  Diversity matters especially when you are POC.  I am AA.
> Rural America is not safe for my family and I.



Thank you for sharing your perspective. I am so sorry to hear that rural America does not feel safe for you. That is the big negative to rural America - lack of diversity. I welcome, if you feel safe, to share more of your experience with us. I am in Northern California and I used to split my time between SF Bay Area and semi-rural Auburn, CA. They are night and day different in terms of diversity, politics, lifestyle, wealth and values. There are pros and cons to each.


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## Ken555 (Jun 22, 2020)

am1 said:


> Not a city but CHAZ or whatever the terrorists are calling it now has the highest nationally in only a weeks of existent. Endorsement from the mayor of Seattle and others.



You just made this thread political.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Brett (Jun 23, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> You just made this thread political.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



yep


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## dioxide45 (Jun 23, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> You just made this thread political.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





Brett said:


> yep


Why not just report the post and move on?


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## Country Roads (Jun 23, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> You just made this thread political.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Perhaps. Our language can be so misleading and misunderstood at times. I suppose we'll see soon enough if the moderators feel the same.

Technically, almost every word has multiple meanings. How often do you look up a word in the dictionary and find only one meaning listed next to it? Some would say practically never. Most of the words and terms we use have slightly varying meanings, or perhaps, can be used as different parts of speech.

The word "Political", being such a case.


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## BagsArePacked (Jun 23, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> Perhaps...misunderstood?



Nope, it's a well-traveled road.




am1 said:


> "the terrorists"... "Endorsement"







Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Country Roads (Jun 23, 2020)

BagsArePacked said:


> Nope, it's a well-traveled road.



Perhaps.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> Yes, I agree. We moved to a semi-rural small town near Auburn, California and have been staying out here. We are far from any rioting. The only thing I see so far are petitions to recall our governor due to the mask mandate. The rural folks want to do what they want and do not want to be forced to wear masks. I would say that is a small minority out here as I am guessing 75% of people are wearing masks now, up from about 50% before the mandate.


Oh wow, @TravelTime  - you live on one of our most memorable drives DW and I took in the late 80's - from San Francisco to Reno.  That trip was our first visit to the mountains and I can still recall stopping in Truckee to check out the area.  I still recall how lush the west side of mountains were and then how brown and dry everything was as we started down toward Reno.  So many vineyards in the area around Sacramento (or so I recall)....Fond memories of that trip!


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

Country Roads said:


> Perhaps. Our language can be so misleading and misunderstood at times. I suppose we'll see soon enough if the moderators feel the same.
> 
> Technically, almost every word has multiple meanings. How often do you look up a word in the dictionary and find only one meaning listed next to it? Some would say practically never. Most of the words and terms we use have slightly varying meanings, or perhaps, can be used as different parts of speech.
> 
> The word "Political", being such a case.


I recall a scene from the movie 2010 that reminds me how powerful words can be and how their multiple meanings can convey concurrent messages.
When Dr. Chandra asks SAL to create a new file to test out how deactivation may have effected HAL, Dr. Chandra selects the name PHOENIX.  SAL is curious why this name was chosen and Dr. Chandra asks SAL why she thinks the name was chosen.  SAL replies that Phoenix was the tutor of Achilles and Dr. Chandra replies that he was not aware of that definition and has a look of wonder on his face as he has just learned something new.  That has stuck with me all those years...

_Edit: Found it!_


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

One last thought this morning along this line: diversity has become one of those words that suffer from too many meanings.  Diversity has both positive and negative connotations and unless great care is exercised when it is used,  the perceived meaning is too often vastly different than the understood meaning.


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## am1 (Jun 23, 2020)

BagsArePacked said:


> Nope, it's a well-traveled road.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What would you call them? No one complained when foreign terrorists were talked badly about on here.  It goes to killing tourism for elected officials to endorse them and police to keep their distance.  Not sure I can count on people in power doing the right thing when they are faced with to them a tough decision because they are unwilling to take charge.  Hopefully done of us are bleeding out on the street from a gunshot wound and others are preventing the police and paramedics from helping.  Every second counts.


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## Ken555 (Jun 23, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> Why not just report the post and move on?



I did. Post still here. What does that say about our objective moderators? 

Unless you’ve been under a rock, using the word terrorist in regards to CHAZ can only mean one particular political viewpoint. It’s not even subtle.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

Ken555 said:


> I did. Post still here. What does that say about our objective moderators?



That they might have lives outside TUG?


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## Cornell (Jun 23, 2020)

@bbodb1   You make me laugh


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

And to this point:


Ken555 said:


> Unless you’ve been under a rock, using the word terrorist in regards to CHAZ can only mean one particular political viewpoint. It’s not even subtle.



Occupying force? 
Insurrectionists?
Law breakers? 
Enemies? 

...by any other name, it is still the same.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2020)

Cornell said:


> @bbodb1   You make me laugh


Thank you @Cornell - sometimes, it is all I can do...


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## Cornell (Jun 23, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Thank you @Cornell - sometimes, it is all I can do...


I frequently say / think  "I need to laugh , so I don't cry".


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## Karen G (Jun 23, 2020)

The End.


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