# hGVC - better off with or without affiliates?



## benjaminb13 (Jun 9, 2008)

People could make a case for both arguments-
Just wanted to get a feel of what owners thought


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## linsj (Jun 10, 2008)

If it weren't for affiliates, there wouldn't be many HGVC options of places to go. Although I strongly wish Hilton would build in other locations, I'm thankful for the affiliates and wish there were more.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 10, 2008)

Heres a thought....what if Hilton started building in more locations? Like Hyatt, Marriott and starwood-?
After all, rCI or II memebership allows access to many of these affiliate/ type resorts - thats why we pay for rCI annually


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## Jan Handlers (Jun 10, 2008)

*Much easier to xchange with HGVC*

Although you can get exchanges through RCI, it is much easier to get exchanges within the HGVC system, especially if you call or book online the first day that exchange is possible.  I have scored some good RCI exchanges through HGVC.  The good thing about those is that they usually cost less in points.

Jan


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 11, 2008)

Heres a question.....Is it possible to get Marbrisa or intrawest  through rCIfor less points?


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## Jan Handlers (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't know about Marbrisa or Intrawest but I did get Bay Club for less points doing an RCI exchange.  

Jan


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## dougp26364 (Jun 12, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> Heres a thought....what if Hilton started building in more locations? Like Hyatt, Marriott and starwood-?
> After all, rCI or II memebership allows access to many of these affiliate/ type resorts - thats why we pay for rCI annually



That thought has been floated many times but HGVC doesn't seem to want to think about it. It's the one easy out I have any time we do an owners update. HGVC has lost business that we've given to Marriott becasue Marriott has the locations with Marriott built resorts that Hilton doesn't. If Hilton had the locations that Marriott offers we'd probably own 21,000 points with them rather than the 7,000 we currently have. I like HGVC's exchange system better than Marriott's week for week but, what good is a great internal exchange system that doesn't offer a wide variety of resorts to use it with? 

Yes HGVC has affiliates. And with few exceptions those affiliates are listed in the guide as having limited availability. So they look nice but aren't real practical. 

I also learned something the hard way about rescueing points. Those rescued points only seem to be good a HGVC built resorts. I should have waited to see what the availabilty would be in Hawaiil but, I was certain I'd spend more than my 7,000 points that I had rescued. As it turned out, all I could get that was acceptable was a 1 bedroom ocean view unit that only cost me 6,200 points. Now I have 800 rescued points that are likely to go to waste unless we return to Vegas, Orlando or Hawaii. Something we're not likely to do next year.


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## sml2181 (Jun 12, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> Heres a question.....Is it possible to get Marbrisa or intrawest  through rCIfor less points?



Yes it is - for best results, request an ongoing search.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 13, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> That thought has been floated many times but HGVC doesn't seem to want to think about it. It's the one easy out I have any time we do an owners update. HGVC has lost business that we've given to Marriott becasue Marriott has the locations with Marriott built resorts that Hilton doesn't. If Hilton had the locations that Marriott offers we'd probably own 21,000 points with them rather than the 7,000 we currently have. I like HGVC's exchange system better than Marriott's week for week but, what good is a great internal exchange system that doesn't offer a wide variety of resorts to use it with?
> 
> Yes HGVC has affiliates. And with few exceptions those affiliates are listed in the guide as having limited availability. So they look nice but aren't real practical.
> 
> I also learned something the hard way about rescueing points. Those rescued points only seem to be good a HGVC built resorts. I should have waited to see what the availabilty would be in Hawaiil but, I was certain I'd spend more than my 7,000 points that I had rescued. As it turned out, all I could get that was acceptable was a 1 bedroom ocean view unit that only cost me 6,200 points. Now I have 800 rescued points that are likely to go to waste unless we return to Vegas, Orlando or Hawaii. Something we're not likely to do next year.



I just find it strange as - all these "affiliates" can be accessed through rCI anyway- and rci is paid for by a member- sometimes I sort of feel cheated and wish HGVC would just build in California, Colorado, Kauai, Marco island etc.


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## PigsDad (Jun 13, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> I just find it strange as - all these "affiliates" can be accessed through rCI anyway- and rci is paid for by a member- sometimes I sort of feel cheated and wish HGVC would just build in California, Colorado, Kauai, Marco island etc.


One of the big benefits of these resorts being affiliates is that as HGVC members, we have a ability to get Open Season reservations there.  That has been a *HUGE *benefit for me, personally.  Valdoro is a 2 hour drive from me, and in the last two years I have had at least 6 Open Season stays for some fantastic short (2-3 day) ski trips!  If Valdoro was just another RCI property, that would *never *happen.  In fact, Valdoro being part of the HGVC system was a major contributing factor to why we purchased HGVC in the first place.

A property being an affiliate is a huge step up over just being another RCI property, in my opinion.

Kurt


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## linsj (Jun 13, 2008)

Plus you don't have to pay the RCI fee for booking an affiliate property.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 13, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> One of the big benefits of these resorts being affiliates is that as HGVC members, we have a ability to get Open Season reservations there.  That has been a *HUGE *benefit for me, personally.  Valdoro is a 2 hour drive from me, and in the last two years I have had at least 6 Open Season stays for some fantastic short (2-3 day) ski trips!  If Valdoro was just another RCI property, that would *never *happen.  In fact, Valdoro being part of the HGVC system was a major contributing factor to why we purchased HGVC in the first place.
> 
> A property being an affiliate is a huge step up over just being another RCI property, in my opinion.
> 
> Kurt



that is true- In your case, the affiliate is  a great perk- 
But Now imagine you owned Hyatt, not HGVC- park Hyatt, Main street staition- grand aspen, mountain lodge.......... ski - heaven- and you would have your pick of Hyatts- 
I just wish HGVC would open a Hilton in colorado-
After all you did pay a little more for the Hilton brand

I have been hearing HGVC has plans to build and expand its locations. 

I hope this is true, as I also heard that HGVC will stick to affiliate management

If anyone has some insight on their future plans - nice if you could share the info


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## PigsDad (Jun 13, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> that is true- In your case, the affiliate is  a great perk-
> But Now imagine you owned Hyatt, not HGVC- park Hyatt, Main street staition- grand aspen, mountain lodge.......... ski - heaven- and you would have your pick of Hyatts-
> I just wish HGVC would open a Hilton in colorado-
> After all you did pay a little more for the Hilton brand
> ...


Your original question is whether or not HGVC is better off with affiliates.  I gave you a concrete example of how it is better off with the affiliates, vs. those properties being in RCI only.

Now, if you are asking the question of whether or not HGVC should build more resort locations outside of Orlando/Vegas/Hawaii, I doubt you would find anyone who disagrees with you.  But that is a _totally _different question.

BTW, if Valdoro was a HGVC-owned property, how would things be any different than they are now?  All Valdoro owners are HGVC members -- unlike some of the FL affiliates, membership in HGVC is mandatory (all Valdoro weeks are in the HGVC system).  Even in Hyatt, owners get priority to reserve at their home property -- if you don't own one of the mountain properties, chances of getting a ski week are certainly not a given.

Bottom line -- if you want a HGVC property in a ski location, buy at Valdoro.  Even though it is an affiliate, I don't see much difference vs. a Hilton-owned property.

Kurt


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 14, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> Your original question is whether or not HGVC is better off with affiliates.  I gave you a concrete example of how it is better off with the affiliates, vs. those properties being in RCI only.
> 
> Now, if you are asking the question of whether or not HGVC should build more resort locations outside of Orlando/Vegas/Hawaii, I doubt you would find anyone who disagrees with you.  But that is a _totally _different question.
> 
> ...




Im a Hyatt owner Kurt- if you have enough points- its easy enough to get a ski week-if you plan ahead- 
Anyway,Back to HGVC-Heres another question ,
Try not too take it too personal
If HGVC feels that most owners have settled for the fact that - like you have previously stated-there is not much differentce between an affiliate and a Hilton owned property- than why spend the money to expand- just go affiliate crazy.


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## PigsDad (Jun 14, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> Im a Hyatt owner Kurt- if you have enough points- its easy enough to get a ski week-if you plan ahead-


That is good to know, thanks!  Someday I may be looking for another timeshare to compliment my HGVC, and Hyatt has seemed appealing.


> Anyway,Back to HGVC-Heres another question ,
> Try not too take it too personal
> If HGVC feels that most owners have settled for the fact that - like you have previously stated-there is not much differentce between an affiliate and a Hilton owned property- than why spend the money to expand- just go affiliate crazy.


Not taking it personal at all -- this has been a good discussion, IMO.

That may very well be Hilton's strategy, I don't know.  I think what people want is more Hilton locations that have the same availability as the big 3.  But bringing back the case of Valdoro -- it is simply a smaller property, and even if it was Hilton-owned, I really don't think it would make much difference -- there would still be greater demand than supply at that location.

Now if Hilton had 5 affiliate ski properties, then it would be easier to get a ski week (just like with Hyatt).  But whether or not those ski properties are affiliates or Hilton-owned, I don't think it would make much difference.

As I understand it, the new Mabrisba property in Carlsbad will be similar to Valdoro, where HGVC membership is mandatory.  That should make it easier to get a reservation.  I think where the affiliates have gotten a bad rep is those properties where not every owner is a HGVC member -- that really limits the availability, IMO.

Kurt


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## rfb813 (Jun 14, 2008)

You have to understand that the original Florida affiliate properties (Sanibel, Captiva, Marco Island, Hutchinson Island) were part of the Mariner Group with which Hilton Hotels formed a joint venture to create HGVC in the early 1990's in order to get the timeshare expertise. The owners at these resorts were eligible but not required to join the new HGVC. Many did not since they rarely exchanged. Later in the 1990's Hilton bought out the Mariner Group and became the sole owner. Later affiliates required membership or where provided membership as part of their purchase and therefore are all members.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 14, 2008)

rfb813 said:


> You have to understand that the original Florida affiliate properties (Sanibel, Captiva, Marco Island, Hutchinson Island) were part of the Mariner Group with which Hilton Hotels formed a joint venture to create HGVC in the early 1990's in order to get the timeshare expertise. The owners at these resorts were eligible but not required to join the new HGVC. Many did not since they rarely exchanged. Later in the 1990's Hilton bought out the Mariner Group and became the sole owner. Later affiliates required membership or where provided membership as part of their purchase and therefore are all members.




That is interesting-and makes sense.  I never understood why HGVC had all these Marco eg Island affiliates.

Heres one  experience I had that made an impression 
back in 2006 - I stayed in both  the Bayclub and the just built HGVC Waikola Resort At the time , the Bay club units were dated ( I hear they may have upgraded- Ill check them out again when I visit later this month) but larger- 
(HGVC Waik- were really nice- I ended up buying)- 
funny thing was that If I wanted pool access to the neighboring Hilton Waikoloa village resort while I stayed in the Bayclub -It would cost 75.00 a day-After I checked-in to  HGVC Waik it was free- 


I dont know if the 75 dollar charge is still going on.  Anyway,the impression that left me was that the HILTON viewed at least this affiliate resort  as a step-down.

It would be really nice to get some input/answers from a former HGVC  employee-wouldnt it?


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 14, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> That is good to know, thanks!  Someday I may be looking for another timeshare to compliment my HGVC, and Hyatt has seemed appealing.
> 
> Not taking it personal at all -- this has been a good discussion, IMO.
> 
> ...



Hyatt is great- once you get used to how to manage the system you will find the quality really impressive-

I think you are on to something- It probably depends on whether or not every affiliate owner is an HGVC member-

Ive only stayed in Intrawest and Bayclub as affiliates.  Unit wise- they were nice but noticably not as nice as an international drive or HGVC Waik.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 19, 2008)

Realize that I Drive and HGVC Waikoloa are NEW builds.  Realize that Bay Club was actually build as wholly owned condos that were converted to Timeshares when the japanese yen tanked, as these condo were activily marketed to that demographic.

I think any new builds including affiliate new builds would be more like HGVC new builds as standards are certainly rising.


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## MattnTricia (Jun 19, 2008)

_Anyway,Back to HGVC-Heres another question ,
Try not too take it too personal
If HGVC feels that most owners have settled for the fact that - like you have previously stated-there is not much differentce between an affiliate and a Hilton owned property- than why spend the money to expand- just go affiliate crazy._

I for one am a big supporter of affiliates as that is where I own most of my points. However, there is one major aspect of owning an affiliate that a purpose built resort owner will never have. An affiliate may drop from the program at some point leaving the owner with a property that is not in the HGVC program.

In my case I live on the west coast and I would not be able to use any of my weeks if they dropped out of the HGVC program. Having bought right I think I could still recoup my initial investment from these units but it would be a very sad day for me as there is no way we would ever be able to get back in to the program with anywhere close to the number of points we own now.


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## rfb813 (Jun 19, 2008)

This was previously posted on June 8 in the thread on Disaffiliaton. Note thaqt after a resort is sold out and turned over to the owners there is the possibillity, however remote, that  the owners could opt out of HGVC management and would no longer be eligible for menmership in HGVC.

There has been much discussion about "affiliate" and HGVC Resorts and disaffiliation. Once a resort has been sold out, even a HGVC developed resort they become an affiliate in the "Club". If you review the covenant of your resort after an initial 3 year management agreement the agreement at HGVC developed resorts will automatically be renewed. However the covenants allow the management agreement to be terminated either by the management company (HGVC) or the owners association (by vote of the majority of owners). In effect once the resort has been sold out there is no difference between a affiliate or a HGVC resort. Therefore all this talk about affiliates being a lesser value is incorrect. It is incumbent that the owners and HGVC work together to maintain the Club. If the owners continue to see the value of Club membership and the relationship remains good there should be no reason to disaffiliate any resort.

Problems have occurred when, as resorts age, there is a need to update a resort to meet the newer quality standards and a management company proposes to undertake a renovation. If the cost has not been properly funded in the reserves and a special assessment is required, frictions will occur between the parties. This can occur at any resort but is more likely at smaller resorts, such as the case with the smaller Marriott resorts on Hilton Head or Vail since the number of owners are fewer and can be more proactive and oppose a higher maintenance fee or special assessment resulting in the management company determining that the resort no longer meets the quality standards they require of their resorts. Over the past few years the increase in the quality and cost of newer resorts in the hotel companies timeshare programs has meant that older resorts will need much more updating to meet the new standards. Keep this in mind when buying any older resort that hasn't been renovated.

My resorts on Sanibel and Hutchinson Island have had a excellent relationship with HGVC and the owners have continually renewed our management contracts.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 20, 2008)

Hi rfb it seems like you have a good knowledge of the HGVC situation.
 I had 2 questions-
Since the affiliates started with the mariner group-b4 any HGVC resorts were built- the first affiliates were grandfathered in - right?
In your opinion, since HGVC has now gained the expertise they need.
When compared to other Hotel chains like Marriott/Hyatt etc. HGVC seems to still be the only one with more affiliates than actual resorts and the affiliate number keeps growing.  
Do you think Will these dwindle as time goes on?  Or will HGVC actually expand their affiliate base.


also, what would happen to your HGVC points and membership if your home affiliate resort decides not to renew management contracts?


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## rfb813 (Jun 22, 2008)

Benjaminb13:

I will try to answer you questions as best I can. Please remember these are only my opinions.

1. When HGVC was formed both Mariner and Hilton were owners and the only resorts were the original Mariner resorts. All owners at these resorts were given the opportunity to join the new Club. Later HGVC developed the HGVC Flamingo and HGVC Sea World with Hilton capital and Hilton bought out the Mariner Group from HGVC. Many of the original Mariner timeshare executive remained with HGVC (Kim Kreiger who is now HGVC's SVP and Chief Club Officer is an original Mariner executive). The original Mariner, now HGVC affiliates, retained their management agreements with HGVC and the owners retain the right to join HGVC.  Hilton focused on the Orlando and Las Vegas markets as well as developing HGVC at the Hilton properties at Hilton Hawaiian Village and Waikoloa.  The only other properties they developed were in South Beach and their experiment with the Hilton Club in the New York Hilton. Hilton has chosen the affiliate route for many of their new resorts, in my opinion, as a way of reducing the amount of capital they have to invest in new properties while retaining the HGVC quality and growing the HGVC.  Remember that most Hilton hotels are not owned by Hilton but are only operated by Hilton or franchised to developers and operated by others. I believe that Hilton see this partnering as the best way of growing the HGVC.
The other hotel chains, Marriott, Starwood and Hyatt also do not own most of their hotels and just manage or franchise them. I believe that future timeshare development with the large capital required will most likely go the same route as Hilton. There should be no downside to this "affiliate" development if the project and management is structured properly.

2. In answer to your question as to what happens to your points if your resort whether and affiliate or HGVC developed opts out of the HGVC, I suspect that if you are still an owner at another HGVC resort, nothing but if you are not you will be given a period of time to either use your points or transfer them to Hilton Honors Points with don't expire. Just my opinion.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 22, 2008)

rfb813 said:


> Benjaminb13:
> 
> I will try to answer you questions as best I can. Please remember these are only my opinions.
> 
> ...



That is interesting-
You are right - I know at least one Hyatt property  - Highlands in Carmel- that iI believe Hyatt manages.

If what you say is tight, I like the gameplan of HGVC- As they build new properties the value will only increase.  So of course the affiliates will remain a positive as it gives a member flexibility.
I would hope it never gets to the point that they drop any of them - i think that would be very unfair to affiliate owners and HGVC members.
Re thsi: One of the affiliates I keep hearing runors Bay Club is on the hit list- 
Ive been there b4 and was disappointed at the quality back in 2006 but I hear good things lately so In spending 3 days end of this month to check it out.
 In  my case,  The affiliate was a plus as I extended my vacation 3 days by adding the Bay Club, being an owner at HGVC Wakoloa resort gave ne that opprtunity.

Ill keep you guys posted


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