# bHC vs HGVC



## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

I've been lurking here for a long time. Still trying to understand bHC vs HGVC. I can't find a list of which resorts are which. For example, I see lots of resorts in Japan where we'd like to stay. I don't know if these are bHC or HGVC or whether as an HGVC owner I can stay.

And yes I've seen this:

hgvc vs the hilton club 

I guess the main issue is Japan... the hilton site lists all these resorts, which I dont think we can actually stay at.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 27, 2019)

bHC is a club within the HGVC club.  The bHC points are full HGVC points, but also give priority access to the bHC properties.  The bHC properties are eventually available to HGVC members but only at the 60 day mark. 

I do not know the definite list of bHC properties.  Most of these are Urban properties.  NYC (some but not all), DC, Chicago (??), Charleston, new as yet un-built in Oahu.  Not sure if that this is right.

The Japan Resorts listed are a new relationship to a resort chain and are NOT HGVC resorts.  They are available for all of HGVC members AFAIK.  These can't be booked online, you must call in to book them.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

Sandy VDH said:


> bHC is a club within the HGVC club.  The bHC points are full HGVC points, but also give priority access to the bHC properties.  The bHC properties are eventually available to HGVC members but only at the 60 day mark.
> 
> I do not know the definitely list of bHC properties.  Most of these are Urban properties.  NYC (some but not all), DC, Chicago (??), Charleston, new as yet un-built in Oahu.  Not sure if that this is right.
> 
> The Japan Resorts listed are a new relationship to a resort chain and are NOT HGVC resorts.  They are available for all of HGVC members AFAIK.  These can't be booked online, you must call in to book them.



thank you! i saw a previous thread from april 2018 on bhc but it didnt answer my questions. the japan resorts are interesting but i cant get in yet to see how many points for 1-2 bedroom suites


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## tombanjo (Apr 27, 2019)

The points are insane for the Japanese resorts. If you want to go to japan, there are much better ways to do it. 
*The Bay Forest Odawara by Hilton Club*
*1 Bedroom Cottage 1,440 2,880 14,400
*
*Aenokaze (JTB)
*
*UNIT SIZE
JAPANESE-STYLE ROOM INCLUDES COMPLIMENTARY BREAKFAST POINTS PER NIGHT
2 People/1 Room 3,400
*


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

tombanjo said:


> The points are insane for the Japanese resorts. If you want to go to japan, there are much better ways to do it.
> *The Bay Forest Odawara by Hilton Club*
> *1 Bedroom Cottage 1,440 2,880 14,400*
> 
> ...



thank you


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## dayooper (Apr 27, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> I've been lurking here for a long time. Still trying to understand bHC vs HGVC. I can't find a list of which resorts are which. For example, I see lots of resorts in Japan where we'd like to stay. I don't know if these are bHC or HGVC or whether as an HGVC owner I can stay.
> 
> And yes I've seen this:
> 
> ...



bHC resorts:

*New York:*
West 57th
The Residences
Central on 5th (upcoming)
The Quin (upcoming)
*
Washington DC:*
The District
*
Charleston:*
Liberty Square (upcoming)
*
Oahu:*
Honolulu
*
Japan:
*
Bay Forest 

Chicago will be regular HGVC


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

how better to go to japan and get bedrooms w kitchen?


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

thank you


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## tombanjo (Apr 27, 2019)

I guess my idea of vacation is different. Bedrooms and kitchens are not really Japanese style, and I like my Sakura Niku at a restaurant  For me the experience of Japan is experiencing Japanese things. For instance at Aenokaze they mention the beds are Japanese style. That's basically a plank and a bag of cement for a pillow. And a friendly reminder for when you are naked in the hot spring "Hot Spring / Onsen Etiquette: When visiting a hot spring in Japan visitors with visible tattoos will be prohibited from entering." I can understand wanting a kitchen for Hawaii or Orlando, but not Japan. Just my 2 cents, everybody has what makes them happy.


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 27, 2019)

tombanjo said:


> I guess my idea of vacation is different. Bedrooms and kitchens are not really Japanese style, and I like my Sakura Niku at a restaurant  For me the experience of Japan is experiencing Japanese things. For instance at Aenokaze they mention the beds are Japanese style. That's basically a plank and a bag of cement for a pillow. And a friendly reminder for when you are naked in the hot spring "Hot Spring / Onsen Etiquette: When visiting a hot spring in Japan visitors with visible tattoos will be prohibited from entering." I can understand wanting a kitchen for Hawaii or Orlando, but not Japan. Just my 2 cents, everybody has what makes them happy.




for sure, so true! we vacation a lot, n usually stay 3-4 weeks at a time multiple times a year, so we'd go broke without a kitchen. bedroom needed too as we r usually 3 or more trraveling. for us, the best part of staying in a new country/place is shopping like locals, cooking the local food ourselves. we do eat out but have to balance


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## alwysonvac (Apr 27, 2019)

Only two resorts out of the list are HGVC resorts

The Bay Forest Odawara by Hilton Club
Hilton Grand Vacations Club on Sesokojima Island which opens in 2021
The others resorts in Japan are through some sort of partnership that HGVC has established which may mean limited availability. I believe all of the point charts are listed under each resort at the member website. See this thread regarding HGVC point charts - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hgvc-points-charts.287779

Here are some previous TUG threads regarding HGVC Japan resorts

Japan Timeshare Recommendations? - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/japan-timeshare-recommendations.281844/
HGVC Sesoko in Okinawa, Japan - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hgvc-sesoko-in-okinawa-japan.274408/
Hotel Harvest in Japan - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hotel-harvest-in-japan.266654/#post-2126408


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

ok, thanks. so for bhc you have to own at that bhc? otherwise you can only get a res 60 days in advance if u are hgvc or own anither bhc?


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 28, 2019)

Perhaps someone else can confirm, but bHC has access to all other bHC.  You have priority in home season for you property, but otherwise at the 9 month mark it acts like any other club membership.  At 9 months, you get access to all bHC and HGVC resorts.


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## dayooper (Apr 28, 2019)

Sandy VDH said:


> Perhaps someone else can confirm, but bHC has access to all other bHC.  You have priority in home season for you property, but otherwise at the 9 month mark it acts like any other club membership.  At 9 months, you get access to all bHC and HGVC resorts.



This isn’t correct. bHC owners get the same 9 month club booking window that regular HGVC members get at regular HGVC resorts. If you own at The Residences or The District, you get reciprocal 74 day window and a 59 day window at W57th. If you own at W57th, it’s 59 days at the other bHC properties. The Hilton Club of NY is just a different animal altogether. The 59 day window is the same as any HGVC owner has at bHC properties.


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## Sandy VDH (Apr 28, 2019)

dayooper said:


> This isn’t correct. bHC owners get the same 9 month club booking window that regular HGVC members get at regular HGVC resorts. If you own at The Residences or The District, you get reciprocal 74 day window and a 59 day window at W57th. If you own at W57th, it’s 59 days at the other bHC properties. The Hilton Club of NY is just a different animal altogether. The 59 day window is the same as any HGVC owner has at bHC properties.




That is why I was wanting someone else to confirm.  Thanks.


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## tombanjo (Apr 28, 2019)

Not sure if you can download the club rules, WEB CLB-BRCH-Rules 2019 ENG R9 FINAL.pdf but they are a bit complicated as not all bHC are the same. As a member at 57th I can reserve The District 75 days out, so there is a tiny bit of an advantage. 

"....The Club Reservation Window for BW Vacation Suites (also known as Hokulani Waikiki by Hilton Grand Vacations Club) and GI Vacation Suites (also known as The Grand Islander by Hilton Grand Vacations Club) begins six (6) months (186 days) prior to the check-out date. • The Club Reservation Window for 57th Street Vacation Suites (also known as West 57th Street by Hilton Club), HC Suites (also known as The Residences by Hilton Club) and TD Suites (also known as The District by Hilton Club) begins fifty-nine (59) days prior to the check-out date, and the three night minimum booking does not apply...."


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## 4Sunsets (Apr 28, 2019)

thanks everyone.... I'm really interested in bhc because they will be @ Charleston eventually and a few other places we want to go, but it seems like no advantage to trying to own a bhc somewhere else.  complex


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## dayooper (Apr 28, 2019)

@tombanjo can you book The Residences at 75 days as well? We may want to change the info on the sticky as that’s where I got my info from.


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## tombanjo (Apr 28, 2019)

yes 74 days out is possible


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## Talent312 (Apr 28, 2019)

It used to be that bHC owners got an entirely separate set of rules that us plebes could safely ignore. Then some genius at HGV decided that, since so many overlapped, they could be combined. At first, it was a bit disconcerting to find them commingled, but now with so many more bHC properties with differing periods of exclusivity, it's simply maddening.
.
.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 28, 2019)

HGVC Booking Windows - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?attachments/2019-reservation-windows-pdf.10232/


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 29, 2019)

dayooper said:


> bHC resorts:
> 
> *New York:*
> West 57th
> ...


Which resorts on Oahu are bHC.  We have stayed at all of them and always though that the 4 are straight HGVC.


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## JohnPaul (Apr 29, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> Which resorts on Oahu are bHC.  We have stayed at all of them and always though that the 4 are straight HGVC.



The new one being built in Waikiki.  I don't believe it's open yet.


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## dayooper (Apr 29, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> Which resorts on Oahu are bHC.  We have stayed at all of them and always though that the 4 are straight HGVC.





JohnPaul said:


> The new one being built in Waikiki.  I don't believe it's open yet.



This is correct. It’s more downtown Honolulu than beach.


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## Cyberc (Apr 30, 2019)

4Sunsets said:


> thanks everyone.... I'm really interested in bhc because they will be @ Charleston eventually and a few other places we want to go, but it seems like no advantage to trying to own a bhc somewhere else.  complex


Since bHC is more expensive than regular points it could be worthwhile to take your time to see if Charleston will book up fast or slow. If its slow you might be able to use your regular hgvc points and therefore you can save your $$ for something else.


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## frank808 (Apr 30, 2019)

dayooper said:


> This is correct. It’s more downtown Honolulu than beach.


It is actually in the Waikiki district.  It is being built on the site of the former Kings Village shopping complex.  Across the street from the Sheraton Princess Kaiulani hotel.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## alwysonvac (May 1, 2019)

tombanjo said:


> Not sure if you can download the club rules, WEB CLB-BRCH-Rules 2019 ENG R9 FINAL.pdf but they are a bit complicated as not all bHC are the same. As a member at 57th I can reserve The District 75 days out, so there is a tiny bit of an advantage.
> 
> "....The Club Reservation Window for BW Vacation Suites (also known as Hokulani Waikiki by Hilton Grand Vacations Club) and GI Vacation Suites (also known as The Grand Islander by Hilton Grand Vacations Club) begins six (6) months (186 days) prior to the check-out date. • The Club Reservation Window for 57th Street Vacation Suites (also known as West 57th Street by Hilton Club), HC Suites (also known as The Residences by Hilton Club) and TD Suites (also known as The District by Hilton Club) begins fifty-nine (59) days prior to the check-out date, and the three night minimum booking does not apply...."





dayooper said:


> @tombanjo can you book The Residences at 75 days as well? We may want to change the info on the sticky as that’s where I got my info from.





tombanjo said:


> yes 74 days out is possible
> 
> View attachment 11473



Interesting.. another broken rule in the system.

This error provides an advantage to West 57th Street owners since all online documentation indicates the 15 day “By Hilton Club Priority Window” only applies to the Residences and the District. I'm assuming vice versa as well - they have earlier access to West 57th inventory.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 2, 2019)

Why is this an advantage? W57 has always been a By Hilton Club. I would assume that other bHCs get an early window into W57.  Just as they aligned the windows from 45 days to 60 days, they are simplifying and aligning the bHC system in preparation for the new bHC property additions. It's smart management.

I believe they learned their lesson with HCNY that having a program with different rules can cause owner dissatisfaction and increases costs of training, documentation etc. because of complications which don't add any value. That reduction of OH cost is good for everyone.


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## alwysonvac (May 2, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Why is this an advantage? W57 has always been a By Hilton Club. I would assume that other bHCs get an early window into W57.  Just as they aligned the windows from 45 days to 60 days, they are simplifying and aligning the bHC system in preparation for the new bHC property additions. It's smart management.
> 
> I believe they learned their lesson with HCNY that having a program with different rules can cause owner dissatisfaction and increases costs of training, documentation etc. because of complications which don't add any value. That reduction of OH cost is good for everyone.



*You’re missing the point. There has been no official revision of the stated rules*.

The new 2019 rules state all “By Hilton Clubs” will be available to all owners at 60 days*. *and only *Only* the Residence and District will have access to each other’s inventory at 75 days. The OP’s post shows that the online system isn’t enforcing the rules correctly (it’s currently including West 57th).

The new 2019 rules are stated in the
(1) Mailings that were sent out
(2) Official announcement on the website
(3) 2019 Club Rules documentation
(4) 2019 Reservation Window documentation

*5/3 Revised post to make it clearer.*


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## brp (May 2, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> *You’re missing the point. There has been no official revision of the stated rules*.
> 
> The new 2019 rules state all “By Hilton Clubs” will be available to all owners at 60 days *and only* the Residence and District will have access to each other’s inventory at 75 days. The OP’s post shows that the online system isn’t enforcing the rules correctly (it’s currently including West 57th).
> 
> ...



According to  this chart  , that doesn't seem to be the case. This says that bHC has a 74-60 day additional window at Residences and District, and W. 57th is a bHC property. However, it is also clear that it is not reciprocal.

Seems that the rules are being enforced this way.

Cheers.


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## alwysonvac (May 2, 2019)

brp said:


> According to  this chart  , that doesn't seem to be the case. This says that bHC has a 74-60 day additional window at Residences and District, and W. 57th is a bHC property. However, it is also clear that it is not reciprocal.
> 
> Seems that the rules are being enforced this way.
> 
> Cheers.



That’s document #4 on my list but take a closer look at the headings for each section.
The 2nd section applies to West 57th (not the 3rd).


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## brp (May 2, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> That’s document #4 on my list but take a closer look at the headings for each section.
> The 2nd section applies to West 57th (not the 3rd).
> 
> View attachment 11531



The sections apply to trading *into* those places. So, according to the 3rd section all bHC can trade *into* Residences and District at 74 days. That includes W. 57th folks. The 2nd says that there is no such bHC window at W. 57th, and I believe that is what is being upheld by the system.

Cheers.


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## alwysonvac (May 2, 2019)

brp said:


> The sections apply to trading *into* those places. So, according to the 3rd section all bHC can trade *into* Residences and District at 74 days. That includes W. 57th folks. The 2nd says that there is no such bHC window at W. 57th, and I believe that is what is being upheld by the system.
> 
> Cheers.



No, I’m sorry it doesn’t. 

From Document #3, the 2019 CLUB RULES
_By Hilton Club Priority exchange is a reciprocal priority exchange window where owners at HC Suites and TD Suites exchange into each other’s property during a fifteen (15)day reciprocal exchange window *without competing with members who do not own an interest at those resorts .*

HC Suites is The Residence by Hilton Club 
TD Suites is The District by Hilton Club_


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## brp (May 2, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> No, I’m sorry it doesn’t.



Yup. I see what you're saying based on the documents. However, the chart is pretty clear as well and the website seems to be enforcing the chart. It clearly says "by Hilton Club Priority Window" in the Residences and District box. And W. 57th is unquestionably a "by Hilton Club" property. So the chart is not consistent with the wording you included. And they are enforcing the chart.

Cheers.


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## alwysonvac (May 3, 2019)

brp said:


> Yup. I see what you're saying based on the documents. However, the chart is pretty clear as well and the website seems to be enforcing the chart. It clearly says "by Hilton Club Priority Window" in the Residences and District box. And W. 57th is unquestionably a "by Hilton Club" property. So the chart is not consistent with the wording you included. And they are enforcing the chart.
> 
> Cheers.


Sorry, that’s not correct.

The “By Hilton Club Priority Window” didn’t change this year . The chart and definition is still the same as before. The only rule change for 2019 that impacted West 57th owners was the Club Season window increased from 45 days to 60 days as stated in the original announcement .

See the previous chart and definition below. I’ve attached the full document.






 





_I guess for West 57th owners, it’s the first time you guys have experienced exclusion.

As a regular HGVC owner, I’ve just gotten used to it. We first got completely shutout of the Hilton Club New York. Then we got an extremely short reservation window to future Hilton Club Resort (with introduction of West 57th Street and now the others). Then they cut back the Club Reservation from 9 months to 6 months at select resorts. 
_
*Well it’s time for me to get to bed. It’s midnight on the East Coast. 

Have a good night.*


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## CalGalTraveler (May 3, 2019)

These document rules are clearly outdated because it does not even reflect the new 60 day club windows. That's the problem with making things complicated. It adds a lot of unnecessary overhead to keep everything in synch and confuses the customer (and HGVC apparently too).

The chart referred by @brp indicates *ALL* bHC. How can W57 not be part of bHC when it is in the title?


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## CalGalTraveler (May 3, 2019)

BTW... this bHC window discussion is somewhat moot. W57 and other bHC owners have very little incentive to stay at the other NYC properties because they don't get lounge privileges like their home bHC resort.

I may use District once a decade, but would reserve with a cancellable hotel reservation at the Embassy Suites downstairs and try to use HGVC Club points during club window.  The lounge doesn't matter because we would use the Embassy Suites breakfast which is better anyway.  However the suites in the District are much nicer than the hotel but same layout.


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## tombanjo (May 3, 2019)

I can understand the no lounge access at HCNY as it really is a one off kind of club, but moving forward, I would think reciprocal lounge access between the "real" bHC properties would be a sales advantage. It's not like they would be over run, as the same number of people stay in each room regardless of affiliation. People won't be wandering off the street to burn English muffins in the toaster. Your maintenance fees are paying for lounge access at your home resort though you are slumming in DC or Chicago, or across the street at the Quin.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 3, 2019)

+1 Totally agree that reciprocal would be nice. 

FWIW...During a recent presentation the rep indicated that they are exploring a new bHC elite level and one of the perks is reciprocal lounge.


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## alwysonvac (May 3, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This document rules you are pointing to are clearly outdated because it does not even reflect the new 60 day club windows. That's the problem with making things complicated. It adds a lot of unnecessary overhead to keep everything in synch and confuses the customer (and HGVC apparently too).
> 
> Besides the chart @brp is referring to indicates *ALL* bHC. Efforts to streamline bHC rules and not orphan properties like they learned with HCNY is prudent.
> 
> View attachment 11544



It looks like HGVC is trying to address the confusion through their Workshops and Webinars as well. 

The page below is from their April 16, 2019 Online Member Education Webinars  - https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/help/club-member-education-webinars

I’ve also attached the HGV Club Membership: Essentials Webinar handbook. 




_NOTE:The 2019 Reservation Window document is just like the chart that was 1st shared back in our 2017 Club Rules (link). The diagram and definitions are still the same except for the interval changes which became effective for all BHCs on January 1, 2019. Those changes can found in this TUG thread - link ._


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## Cyberc (May 5, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> +1 Totally agree that reciprocal would be nice.
> 
> FWIW...During a recent presentation the rep indicated that they are exploring a new bHC elite level and one of the perks is reciprocal lounge.



I don’t see how that would be possible. A bHC elite owner getting lounge access to “MY” lounge meaning I have to pay for his meals.  On the other hand I don’t get the same access because I’m not bHC elite. The access would be ok IF hgvc pays for his access to the lounge. Otherwise I see grounds for a lawsuit.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 5, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> I don’t see how that would be possible. A bHC elite owner getting lounge access to “MY” lounge meaning I have to pay for his meals.  On the other hand I don’t get the same access because I’m not bHC elite. The access would be ok IF hgvc pays for his access to the lounge. Otherwise I see grounds for a lawsuit.



Good point. This is a fuzzy issue between the ability of HGVC club to change rules and the rights of an HOA. If there is no reciprocity with bHC that is a problem. How can HGVC add burden to an HOA for an expense by non-owners without a vote by the HOA to absorb the expense?


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## brp (May 7, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> _I guess for West 57th owners, it’s the first time you guys have experienced exclusion.
> _




First, there is no "exclusion" as I can book Residences/District at 85 days, in accordance with the chart I posted (which is contradicted by some of your information). So, they are doing as I expect, and I would get the full 75-day bHC window.

Second, as @CalGalTraveler points out, I'd be unlikely to book away from W. 57th so, even should they change the rules again, it would not impact me.

But, for now, W. 57th folks get the expected 75-day window at other bHC properties.

Cheers.


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## alwysonvac (May 7, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> I’ve also attached the HGV Club Membership: Essentials Webinar handbook_._



Yikes, I just realized in my previous post that I didn’t attached the handbook from HGVC’s webinar last month 
I’ve attached it below for future reference.


_For those who don’t know or haven’t been around the HGVC forums for long,_
_
Let’s just say, the online reservation system isn’t perfect. HGV has had system challenges implementing their exception logic.
In 2017, HGV took corrective action to address a reservation system loophole which impacted some owners. See threads below._

_Check your account (Nov 2017) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/check-your-accounts.265181_
_Booking reservations across multiple point "buckets" (April 2018) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...vations-across-multiple-point-buckets.272198/_
_Forced to Use W57 Points for Flamingo Reservation (Aug 2018) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...e-w57-points-for-flamingo-reservation.277679/_


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## David Sa (May 20, 2019)

Hi all... I have a question about the amenities that come with this location(west 57th street, NYC) for a resale owner if anyone could answer with absolute certainty please do, thanks in advance!  Will a owner who purchases on a resale be allowed to stay for a single night or is there a 3 night minimum? If they do allow a single night or two will there be a cleaning charge to a owner who purchases on a resale?  P.S. not sure if this is the place to pose my question so if not please lmk, thanks again.


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## brp (May 20, 2019)

Great place for this question. As a resale owner at W. 57th, I can answer definitively.

Resale owners are treated no differently here from direct purchasers (except for having a bunch more money in our pockets ):

1 night is the minimum
Cleaning charge ($85 + tax) is charged for stays of 3 nights or fewer.

The above applies to resale and direct.

Cheers.


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## David Sa (May 20, 2019)

Hey here's another for you Chees, or anyone else... do you have a guesstimate of what the minimum purchase price should be to purchase a resale at West 57th street without Hilton exercising their ROFR? (and how the closing cost become a factor, for example a $10,000 purchase is comprised of $4500 cl.cost leaving $5500 actual purchase, approx.)
Thanks, Dave.


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## Cyberc (May 20, 2019)

David Sa said:


> Hey here's another for you Chees, or anyone else... do you have a guesstimate of what the minimum purchase price should be to purchase a resale at West 57th street without Hilton exercising their ROFR? (and how the closing cost become a factor, for example a $10,000 purchase is comprised of $4500 cl.cost leaving $5500 actual purchase, approx.)
> Thanks, Dave.



$4,500 closing costs sounds expensive:-(


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## CalGalTraveler (May 20, 2019)

check out ROFR.net. Also ROFR will decline near the end of the year when budgets run dry and if they have excessive inventory with new properties to sell and want to keep inventory managed for Wall St.

BTW...both resale and developer (and their guests) get lounge privileges.  Non-owners who trade via club, or from other bHC properties, or RCI do not.


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## David Sa (May 20, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> check out ROFR.net. Also ROFR will decline near the end of the year when budgets run dry and if they have excessive inventory with new properties to sell and want to keep inventory managed for Wall St.
> 
> BTW...both resale and developer (and their guests) get lounge privileges.  Non-owners who trade via club, or from other bHC properties, or RCI do not.


Thanks for your response...you said "ROFR will decline near the end of the year " does that mean it's more likely to have a purchase for less money go through at the end of the year?


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## David Sa (May 20, 2019)

to be more specific about the ROFR...does Hilton look at the total cost to purchase when deciding to exercise ROFR or not? Or do they just look at the net purchase price (purchase price less closing cost )?


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## David Sa (May 20, 2019)

David Sa said:


> Thanks for your response...you said "ROFR will decline near the end of the year " does that mean it's more likely to have a purchase for less money go through at the end of the year?



also you mention to "check out ROFR.net "...where do I find that?


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## dayooper (May 20, 2019)

David Sa said:


> Thanks for your response...you said "ROFR will decline near the end of the year " does that mean it's more likely to have a purchase for less money go through at the end of the year?



Yes. There is a train of though that says HGVC has a certain budget for ROFR and by the end of the year, the funds start to run low. They have to choose their deals more carefully.



David Sa said:


> to be more specific about the ROFR...does Hilton look at the total cost to purchase when deciding to exercise ROFR or not? Or do they just look at the net purchase price (purchase price less closing cost )?



Not sure. There was a thread previously that delved into that topic. My guess is it would be the cost to acquire the unit (purchase price), but there was conflicting reports on this topic..



David Sa said:


> also you mention to "check out ROFR.net "...where do I find that?



Here you are: rofr.net


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## CalGalTraveler (May 20, 2019)

David Sa said:


> Thanks for your response...you said "ROFR will decline near the end of the year " does that mean it's more likely to have a purchase for less money go through at the end of the year?



Yes because they run out of ROFR budget. Also HGVC owners tend to want to sell more at the end of the year when they get their MF bill for the next year and realize that they don't want to pay it anymore.  This is an HGVC-wide phenomenon - not just bHC.  However, HGVC tends to be more protective of ROFR values of it's NYC bHC properties than other locations.


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## David Sa (May 23, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> $4,500 closing costs sounds expensive:-(


obtw "closing cost" are as follows: 
Closing cost $1,765
Estoppel Fee: 64 - For the benefit of the buyer
Resort Transfer Fee: 409  
Admin Fee:  99  
2019 Maintenance Fee 1500
Activation fee  609
Club dues  176
Total Fee's due at Closing $4600.approx


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## David Sa (May 23, 2019)

I have a general timeshare ownership/title question, so not sure if this is the place but here it is...
Is it better to list buyer as myself or to include my children as buyers too since they will inherit it anyway to save future cost to them if any when that time comes?


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## dayooper (May 23, 2019)

David Sa said:


> obtw "closing cost" are as follows:
> Closing cost $1,765
> Estoppel Fee: 64 - For the benefit of the buyer
> Resort Transfer Fee: 409
> ...



Everything looks normal except for the closing cost. Does it cost more to close on a unit in NY? Does that include title insurance? As an example, when I purchased my Flamingo unit last summer, I paid around $750 and that was higher than I wanted too and I had title insurance too. Since I bought in Vegas, I'm not sure if it costs more to purchase in NY.


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## David Sa (May 23, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Everything looks normal except for the closing cost. Does it cost more to close on a unit in NY? Does that include title insurance? As an example, when I purchased my Flamingo unit last summer, I paid around $750 and that was higher than I wanted too and I had title insurance too. Since I bought in Vegas, I'm not sure if it costs more to purchase in NY.


I got a break down of closing cost like this (actual text) for a similar unit that i am also looking at :coordination fee $350.00 Attorney $850.00 Fee Premium is   $342.00 NYS Transfer Tax $50.00 NYC RPT Tax $85.00 Deed Recording Fee $ 177.00 Unit POA Fee  $47.00 Deed Recording $150.00 POA Recording $150.00 ACRIS Prep $125.00
P.S. not sure if this includes title insurance...how can I tell? Is it recommended to have?


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## magmue (May 23, 2019)

> Is it better to list buyer as myself or to include my children as buyers too since they will inherit it anyway to save future cost to them if any when that time comes?


Two ways to look at it.

Save future transfer $ by putting their names on now
vs
Give them the option of refusing the timeshare deed after your death is they see it as a burden rather than a bonus. If their name is on the deed, they have no choice - they are on the hook for maintenance fees ongoing.


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## ccwu (May 23, 2019)

I own hgvc NYC Residence Club and NYC Hilton Club. Here is what I understand.
There are two kind of by HC. 57 th Street is not the same as Residence Club. As Residence Club member, I can book any existing or future Residence club in 75 days window and enjoy any Residence Club owner’s lounge I booked into. This is reciprocal. We can not use 57 th street owner’s club while they can not use Residence Club owner’s club.

We can book the owner’s week 12 months in advance. It has to be exact category in the deed (for us, one week at penthouse one bedroom in platinum season and using up the points, 16,800, in one reservation.) or I can book home resort 1 nights minimum 9 months to 75 days as club reservation or any other hgvc Resort 9 months window with 3 nights minimum. We can convert to Hilton Honor points for next year before 12/31 got 50/1 with all deeded pints (for us 16,800) or nothing. We can convert partial for current year @25/1.  To reserve our own Residence club or 75 days window for other Residence Club, we have to use Residence Club point. You can borrow future point the same way. But to reserve home week, it has to use the points of reservation year. If you borrow next year’s point, you lost the right to reserve next years home week. (The sane of hgvc)

Our Hilton club is different animal. It is owner’s only. I can book home stay for minimum two nights 13 months in advance for any unit (deed is by points, not unit or season). So I could reserve different units for Thanksgiving for two or three nights with multiple units. I could convert any portion of point to 50/1 for next year. Minimum 1 night reservation from 9 months to 1 day. Since there is owners only, we usually can book next week to NYC without much problem. We can book HGVC with Hilton club points at club reservation. There is a separate Hilton club club due. (We pay two club due, hgvc and Hilton club).

I am not speaking for 57th street by HC since I do not own it.


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## Cyberc (May 24, 2019)

ccwu said:


> I own hgvc NYC Residence Club and NYC Hilton Club. Here is what I understand.
> There are two kind of by HC. 57 th Street is not the same as Residence Club. As Residence Club member, I can book any existing or future Residence club in 75 days window and enjoy any Residence Club owner’s lounge I booked into. This is reciprocal. We can not use 57 th street owner’s club while they can not use Residence Club owner’s club.
> 
> We can book the owner’s week 12 months in advance. It has to be exact category in the deed (for us, one week at penthouse one bedroom in platinum season and using up the points, 16,800, in one reservation.) or I can book home resort 1 nights minimum 9 months to 75 days as club reservation or any other hgvc Resort 9 months window with 3 nights minimum. We can convert to Hilton Honor points for next year before 12/31 got 50/1 with all deeded pints (for us 16,800) or nothing. We can convert partial for current year @25/1.  To reserve our own Residence club or 75 days window for other Residence Club, we have to use Residence Club point. You can borrow future point the same way. But to reserve home week, it has to use the points of reservation year. If you borrow next year’s point, you lost the right to reserve next years home week. (The sane of hgvc)
> ...



Sorry that is not entirely correct. No bHC ownership will give you reciprocal access to owners lounge anywhere else. So owning the residence will not give you access to any other lounge in the HGVC/bHC system. If you buy The residence you get lounge access there and nowhere else. If sales weasels told you this - as their lips are moving their are lying.

It would however be great if HGVC allowed the reciprocal access to lounges they would also get ppl to book other properties than their own - unfortunately they dont (as of right now)

There big question for some is if it is worth converting your HGVC/bHC points to Hhonors for 99.9% IMO its a very poor use of points to convert them to Hhonors. Best use is within the system. 

Never ever buy HGVC/bHC to convert to Hhonors on a regular basis. 

I have to see a use case for converting and it actually made sense financially.


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## ccwu (May 24, 2019)

Tamaradarann said:


> Which resorts on Oahu are bHC.  We have stayed at all of them and always though that the 4 are straight HGVC.



We are in Waikiki Grand Waikikian now. Went an owner’s update. They have some Penthouse deeds are 50/1 for Hilton honor conversion. They offer higher bonus points too. They could take in up to two or three deeds with certain properties. The Grand Waikikian penthouse unit owner also has their penthouse owner’s lounge (like executive lounge) but I did not hear they mention it is by HC. The grand islander too. Penthouse unit are offered 50/1 conversion.


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## ccwu (May 24, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> Sorry that is not entirely correct. No bHC ownership will give you reciprocal access to owners lounge anywhere else. So owning the residence will not give you access to any other lounge in the HGVC/bHC system. If you buy The residence you get lounge access there and nowhere else. If sales weasels told you this - as their lips are moving their are lying.
> 
> I have to see a use case for converting and it actually made sense financially.



In the NYC owner’s lounge, we met some owners from DC district residence owners quite often.  So in this case the salesperson is correct. Sometimes the salesperson may not be lying, it could be HGV changed the policy. The year, 2017, we bought NYC Hilton Residence Club pre-construction, (NYC Residence club opened in June, 2018), sales person told us that as elite premier, we could convert 50/1 at any portion at even current year. HGV changed rule in 2018.

You are right, we do not buy by HC for 50/1 conversion. We buy it for the location that we want to go. We go to NYC a few times a year. We would only go to places we are interested to go. If there is Residence club in Japan, Waikiki, Chicago, San Francisco, we may go. We use HHonor points to hotel abroad mostly. Sometimes in DC downtown where we could walk to the Mall and capital. Since we are Hilton diamond member, we only like Hilton hotel with executive lounge.  We do not go to Georgetown District Residence Club that needs to take a subway to downtown DC. We got plenty of Hilton Honor points from Hhonor credit card. We charged all HGV purchase on credit card and cumulated millions of points. No need to convert. But it is a good option. Just thinking 1000 HGV points for 50,000 points. Our one week in NYC Residence club 16,800 can give us 20 days (stay 4 nights got the 5th night free) in a 50,000 points hotel. It is not bad exchange.


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## bogey21 (May 24, 2019)

magmue said:


> Give them the option of refusing the timeshare deed after your death if they see it as a burden rather than a bonus. If their name is on the deed, they have no choice - they are on the hook for maintenance fees ongoing.



My thoughts exactly...

George


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## brp (May 24, 2019)

ccwu said:


> In the NYC owner’s lounge, we met some owners from DC district residence owners quite often.



Maybe District folks get access to other District location lounges and Residences get other Residences? Or maybe District and Residences are all interchangeable since they seem to be paired in some ways?

It is certainly true that W.57th won't get District/Residences and vice versa.

Really there are, effectively, three different bHC clubs:

HCNY
W. 57th
District/Residences

with different rules within and among.

Cheers.


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## ccwu (May 24, 2019)

It is all current and future Residence club by HC can reciprocally access all other Residence Club owner’s lounge. I only know currently has NYC Residence club, DC district Residence Club and Chicago Residence Club. We were told that there are more Residence Clubs to come. They are all by metropolitan area.

You can refer to HGV club rules page 5.
https://d1m2ucn09z2f8d.cloudfront.net/static/documents/b0cb4849-14e2-453b-b092-60315165e032/WEB CLB-BRCH-Rules 2019 ENG R9 FINAL.pdf

Also club rules for HCNY. 

https://d1m2ucn09z2f8d.cloudfront.n...-c59d8fd9928d/CLB-MISC-14002-THC-Rules-R7.pdf


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## CalGalTraveler (May 24, 2019)

Not sure this is true. I was told by a rep that they are considering enabling reciprocal lounge access with the addition of an elite bHC tier. But perhaps he was speaking in context to W57 instead of bHC-wide because that's what we own. However during this discussion we were discussing bHC wide policy.


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## brp (May 24, 2019)

It comes down to:

Is it documented, or something that certain clubs are allowing.

Salesweasel words are irrelevant 

Cheers.


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## dayooper (May 24, 2019)

ccwu said:


> It is all current and future Residence club by HC can reciprocally access all other Residence Club owner’s lounge. I only know currently has NYC Residence club, DC district Residence Club and *Chicago Residence Club*. We were told that there are more Residence Clubs to come. They are all by metropolitan area.



Wait, there can be a Residence Club at an HGVC property? I thought those were only at bHC? Since Chicago is a regular HGVC, how do they work that? Do you have to book your home season to get access to the owners lounge? I'm confuzzled by this.


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## ccwu (May 24, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Wait, there can be a Residence Club at an HGVC property? I thought those were only at bHC? Since Chicago is a regular HGVC, how do they work that? Do you have to book your home season to get access to the owners lounge? I'm confuzzled by this.



No, you can access owner’s lounge, if you are a owner and you stay in there. I exchanged into NYHC with my other Resort with RCI and I can access owner’s lounge. The rule did not say that staying there by using NYHC points. Just tell them we are owner when checking in.


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## dayooper (May 24, 2019)

ccwu said:


> No, you can access owner’s lounge, if you are a owner and you stay in there. I exchanged into NYHC with my other Resort with RCI and I can access owner’s lounge. The rule did not say that staying there by using NYHC points. Just tell them we are owner when checking in.



Didn’t know Chicago had an owners club?


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## Nomad420 (May 24, 2019)

LOL, My favorite thread!  I have to laugh at all the confusion as I see I am not the only one.  Many here know that I have rambled on in the past about many of the above issue.  My favorite is that 57th St. is a bHC.  I am sure it is but years back it wasn't.  When it was developed I don't believe HGVC had even considered the concept of a "bHC".  As I have mentioned my brother bought there immediate post construction and to this day never even considered or knew that was a "bHC".   Many here know my frustration with owning at NYHC, you basically can't buy other HGVC properties and use them at that club.  Yes, I am trying to get cheaper points and use them NYC so shoot me.  I was told I could but that is another long and old story at this point.  For now I am happy with NYHC as I really only use it for trip to NYC. I maybe down the road consider purchasing more property there in the retail market but for now the retail pricing is still a bit high.  As far as using the lounge at other clubs I have stayed at W 57th several times and I would say I get lounge access about 50% of the time.  I was told I was technically not allowed but with a wink and a nod I was provided access.  I only hope I don't get anyone in trouble.  Cheers!


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## brp (May 24, 2019)

Your terminology is a bit confusing, so let me make sure I understand. By "NYHC" are you referring to Hilton Club New York or Residences by Hilton Club (I don't even know if RC


Nomad420 said:


> LOL, My favorite thread!  I have to laugh at all the confusion as I see I am not the only one.  Many here know that I have rambled on in the past about many of the above issue.  My favorite is that 57th St. is a bHC.



To be clear: Among the people who own at these resorts, there is no confusion in use. We've owned W. 57th for several years now, and we're not confused at all about the rules. Yah, there are various nuances here, but many are not relevant to bHC folks who bought to stay where we want to stay.

Also, there are things here being granted that are simply not in the rules and not guaranteed.

Cheers.


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## ccwu (May 24, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Didn’t know Chicago had an owners club?


If not, then it is not bHC. We were told it was going to be a bHC of Residence Club in Chicago. Not sure if it is still coming.


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## brp (May 24, 2019)

It is going to be HGVC.

Cheers.


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## dayooper (May 24, 2019)

ccwu said:


> If not, then it is not bHC. We were told it was going to be a bHC of Residence Club in Chicago. Not sure if it is still coming.



It’s regular HGVC. They announced that awhile back. Here is the link to the club page for the resort: https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/resort/illinois-chicago 

Now everything makes sense. I was wondering if they were going to start putting owners lounges in regular HGVC resorts. Although an owners lounge in the Flamingo would be pretty great, I’m not sure how they would make it work.


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## Sandy VDH (May 24, 2019)

Does anyone know is W57 will waive the cleaning fee if I booked into 2 nights via HGVC points and then am staying a full week using an SFX change.  Same room category for all nights.  

Any speculation?


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## CalGalTraveler (May 25, 2019)

Call the hotel and ask. Worst they could say is No.


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## Nomad420 (May 25, 2019)

brp said:


> Your terminology is a bit confusing, so let me make sure I understand. By "NYHC" are you referring to Hilton Club New York or Residences by Hilton Club (I don't even know if RC
> 
> 
> To be clear: Among the people who own at these resorts, there is no confusion in use. We've owned W. 57th for several years now, and we're not confused at all about the rules. Yah, there are various nuances here, but many are not relevant to bHC folks who bought to stay where we want to stay.
> ...


Yes, perhaps HCNY is better, Residences by HC I have always just called or referred to as the Residences but I guess now there is a Residence Club of Chicago so probably will need to clarify that now.  
I get your point about the confusion issue or lack there of.  My brother uses his property at 57th about 75% of the time and often goes his home week so for him he could care less what various rules come and go, they rarely (or never) effect what he does.  The few times he books elsewhere he makes a few calls and looks it up on line.  To him the restrictions are what they are, he basically could care less what Hilton wants to call the place.  He was/is a bit frustrated about not being able to book at "HCNY' as I have property there and it would occasionally be nice to be at the same place so basically I book over at 57th street when we want to hang out at the same location.  Again, going back several years now neither one of us understood or where told about this or I probably wouldn't have bought there but that's an old story.  I have said this before, I would like to have bought property at the Elara in Vegas as my wife likes it there but won't consider that now with the inability to use those points at HCNY.  It is what it is at this point.


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## terces (May 26, 2019)

Where would the sweet spot be for buying bhc on the resale market, both for the purchase price on the resale market and the MF's?  I realize these change and occasionally there can be an incredible deal slip through, but in general terms what would be the best bhc to start doing some research around?  There is no one resort that we would consider a favorite.  Any bhc points purchased would be strictly for the advantage of booking earlier than what our regular HGVC points will allow.  Does anyone have a general idea of the range of purchase prices and also the MF's at the sweet spot bhc resort?  We would be looking for a minimum 7000 point platinum.


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## dayooper (May 26, 2019)

Ok, can someone explain to me about Residence Clubs? Are they names of certain bHC properties, certain types of bHC properties or clubs/lounges within resorts. Since people keep calling Chicago a Residence Club and it’s regular HGVC, I’m not sure I’m completely understanding the system.


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## Cyberc (May 26, 2019)

terces said:


> Where would the sweet spot be for buying bhc on the resale market, both for the purchase price on the resale market and the MF's?  I realize these change and occasionally there can be an incredible deal slip through, but in general terms what would be the best bhc to start doing some research around?  There is no one resort that we would consider a favorite.  Any bhc points purchased would be strictly for the advantage of booking earlier than what our regular HGVC points will allow.  Does anyone have a general idea of the range of purchase prices and also the MF's at the sweet spot bhc resort?  We would be looking for a minimum 7000 point platinum.



I would find a contract at the location which you are most likely to visit often. That way you get a longer booking window since you are an owner. 

bHC points are normally more expensive than other locations. Maybe the new bHC at HI will be cheaper since HI is crowded with timeshare as it is. However it will most likely take a few years before those become available. Also the MF at HI is normally higher than most places. 

If I had to buy now I would look at West 57th but I’m biased as I already owns there


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## Cyberc (May 26, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Ok, can someone explain to me about Residence Clubs? Are they names of certain bHC properties, certain types of bHC properties or clubs/lounges within resorts. Since people keep calling Chicago a Residence Club and it’s regular HGVC, I’m not sure I’m completely understanding the system.



The only residence club there is are the one in NYC. This at least goes by name. 
IMO the district and Chicago locations are not “a residence club” 

They are both bHC. 

Don’t expect reciprocal lounge access if owning one and visiting another.


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## dayooper (May 26, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> The only residence club there is are the one in NYC. This at least goes by name.
> IMO the district and Chicago locations are not “a residence club”
> 
> They are both bHC.
> ...



That’s what I thought. I’m not a bHC owner, nor do I really care to be at this point in my life, but I with all of the talk on this thread, I wasn’t sure. At least on the HGVC member website, Chicago is listed as regular HGVC.


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## Cyberc (May 26, 2019)

dayooper said:


> That’s what I thought. I’m not a bHC owner, nor do I really care to be at this point in my life, but I with all of the talk on this thread, I wasn’t sure. At least on the HGVC member website, Chicago is listed as regular HGVC.



Chicago is a regular HGVC property and not bHC. Maybe at first their intentions was different but the location ended up being regular HGVC.


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## Smclaugh99 (May 26, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> Yes, perhaps HCNY is better, Residences by HC I have always just called or referred to as the Residences but I guess now there is a Residence Club of Chicago so probably will need to clarify that now.
> I get your point about the confusion issue or lack there of.  My brother uses his property at 57th about 75% of the time and often goes his home week so for him he could care less what various rules come and go, they rarely (or never) effect what he does.  The few times he books elsewhere he makes a few calls and looks it up on line.  To him the restrictions are what they are, he basically could care less what Hilton wants to call the place.  He was/is a bit frustrated about not being able to book at "HCNY' as I have property there and it would occasionally be nice to be at the same place so basically I book over at 57th street when we want to hang out at the same location.  Again, going back several years now neither one of us understood or where told about this or I probably wouldn't have bought there but that's an old story.  I have said this before, I would like to have bought property at the Elara in Vegas as my wife likes it there but won't consider that now with the inability to use those points at HCNY.  It is what it is at this point.



Having owned at West 57th for many years (before exchanging into Hilton Club), I will always have a fondness for that property, esp it’s prime location. However, I am very happy with owning at HCNY because it’s the only property in NYC with the 2 bedroom option. It is a tad dated compared to W57 and Residence Club, but they are updating all the rooms this year. The lounge experience is roughly the same in terms of breakfast and evening reception and with many fewer owners to compete for booking, getting in has not been a problem. But once you go 2BR, it’s hard to go back to studio or even 1BR with pullout couch. Just my two cents. 

Sean


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## CalGalTraveler (May 26, 2019)

There are ways to combine and stretch points within bHC property once you are an owner so 7k may not be needed unless you plan to stay more than 2x per year. Best to use bHC points within that system and augment with less expensive Vegas points for use elsewhere in HGVC.

W57 studios 3750 and 5250 have the lowest MF in Manhattan (approx. $1500) with lowest buy-in at $10 - 18k plus closing costs.

Check out points charts for sweet spots because MF is same per unit size across seasons.

HCNY buy-in about same but MF higher and there are limitations to combining points and extra fees as other posters have pointed out. If you plan to stay less than 4 days consistently, Residences and HCNY have no housekeeping fees but you pay for it with higher MF. Need to run numbers as to what is most effective in your situation.

Points are points within a bHC property and you can usually get what u need 5 months out including event weeks because of resort res. windows. As previous poster pointed out, if you need a 2 bdrm consistently, or want last minute NYC availability, HCNY is only game in town. Quin may also have 2 bdrm but point values and buy in will be high.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.


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## ccwu (Jun 1, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Not sure this is true. I was told by a rep that they are considering enabling reciprocal lounge access with the addition of an elite bHC tier. But perhaps he was speaking in context to W57 instead of bHC-wide because that's what we own. However during this discussion we were discussing bHC wide policy.


The reciprocal owner’s lounge access is only for NYC Residence club, District Residence club and any future Residence club that owner currently has 75-60 days Priority access for reservations too. It is on the website users guide.


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## escanoe (Jun 1, 2019)

ccwu said:


> The reciprocal owner’s lounge access is only for NYC Residence club, District Residence club and any future Residence club that owner currently has 75-60 days Priority access for reservations too. It is on the website users guide.



I did not know there was a District Residence Club. Is that the same thing as the District by Hilton Club? I think it was an earlier discussion in this thread, but there is only one "residence club" I'm aware of. Is such reciprocity just among an arbitrary group of the bHC's?


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## ccwu (Jun 2, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I did not know there was a District Residence Club. Is that the same thing as the District by Hilton Club? I think it was an earlier discussion in this thread, but there is only one "residence club" I'm aware of. Is such reciprocity just among an arbitrary group of the bHC's?



The DC has a reciprocal arrangement with NYC Residence club. Even the name is not. We were told it is part of Residence club.  It is in the HGV website club rules (page 6)

When I was at NYC Residence club, I met quite a few District owners. I never go to District in George Town (we prefer DC downtown Hilton brand hotel.). So never use their lounge.


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## junk (Feb 4, 2020)

ccwu said:


> The DC has a reciprocal arrangement with NYC Residence club. Even the name is not. We were told it is part of Residence club.  It is in the HGV website club rules (page 6)
> 
> When I was at NYC Residence club, I met quite a few District owners. I never go to District in George Town (we prefer DC downtown Hilton brand hotel.). So never use their lounge.











						HILTON GRAND VACATION CLUB, THE DISTRICT, 7,200 HGVC POINTS, TIMESHARE  | eBay
					

HGVC Points.  Disregard Club Dues if you are already a HGVC Owner. An exclusive check-in for The District by Hilton Club is located on the eighth floor. Hilton Grand Vacations Club: The District. Owner's Lounge, exclusive to The District by Hilton Club owners.



					www.ebay.com
				




District owner may take advantage to book new bHC in Waikiki?


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## tombanjo (Feb 4, 2020)

I looked on the 2020 guide and I did not see a bHC Waikiki. So I don't know the advantage window. If it is like the others - it is 74 days instead of 59. But you would get the AI reservation in your club dues. That eBay is a EOY though, so you pay more expensive club dues every year. So marginal IMHO, depending on how many points you have and how many reservations you make a year. I bought the District same seller as an regular annual and since I own at W57th it added a lot of cheaper points at a low buy in.


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## brp (Feb 4, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I bought the District same seller as an regular annual and since I own at W57th it added a lot of cheaper points at a low buy in.



How are you finding the >59-day availability at W. 57th using the DC points thus far?

Cheers.


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## tombanjo (Feb 4, 2020)

It added all my points together so 7200 district and 5250 W57th shows as "By Hilton Club Points - 2022   12,450" all in one bucket.


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## frank808 (Feb 4, 2020)

The Distrct in the above mentioned ebay add would get AI correct? Also it lists the annual club dues as $189. Is this correct for the AI fee? 

Have not been following pricing for the AI resorts. Is the purchase price good for an AI resort?

I am looking for an AI resort to save on booking and guest certificate fees. I already own about 60K annual HGVC points and dont really need more. Am looking to add an AI unit to save on fees. I spend about $900-$1100 a year for the booking and guest certificate fees. So this would be break even for me after the 6th or 7th year. EOY would work for me as I dont need more points. What are you fellow tuggers thoughts on this unit? Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## brp (Feb 4, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> It added all my points together so 7200 district and 5250 W57th shows as "By Hilton Club Points - 2022   12,450" all in one bucket.



Interesting. So it seems that, at present, all bHC points are usable as "Home" points for all bHC resorts one owns, even though some of the points are not "Home" there. A look back to the good old days of combined points 

Cheers.


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## tombanjo (Feb 4, 2020)

I did not assume that going in, was happy it turned out to be that way. I will not complain. AI club fee is like $299 - I think it is $127 more than regular club fee. A word of note - HCNY is not part of the annual HGVC club fee, it is completely separate. So I pay two club fees. District points do not work there (or any other points for that matter)


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## brp (Feb 4, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I did not assume that going in, was happy it turned out to be that way. I will not complain. AI club fee is like $299 - I think it is $127 more than regular club fee. A word of note - HCNY is not part of the annual HGVC club fee, it is completely separate. So I pay two club fees. District points do not work there (or any other points for that matter)



Thanks. We have W. 57th, so very familiar with the AI fees as well as HCNY not being a part of anything. Hadn't realized, though, that it had a separate club fee on top of all that.

Cheers.


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## Smclaugh99 (Feb 6, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I did not assume that going in, was happy it turned out to be that way. I will not complain. AI club fee is like $299 - I think it is $127 more than regular club fee. A word of note - HCNY is not part of the annual HGVC club fee, it is completely separate. So I pay two club fees. District points do not work there (or any other points for that matter)


Have you tried to book something at W57 in the 9 month window in excess of your 5250 bHC points to see if it would pull your District bHC points to make up the difference?  If so, I think you found a great loophole, akin to how it was before the club/bHC point distinction was codified. I have to think that given prices of bHC retail (and even resale due to ROFR), there are very few owners who have deeds at 2 (or more) bHC locations.  So keeping the bHC points separate from each other may be low priority for HGVC. 

Sean


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 6, 2020)

It's already a 4x4 points nightmare. I can't imagine it's worth making this more complex.


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## Smclaugh99 (Feb 7, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It's already a 4x4 points nightmare. I can't imagine it's worth making this more complex.


I own 24k HCNY and bought a resale gold week at W57 (officially the 3rd time In 10 years I’ve become an owner at W57, ). If the bHC points are in one bucket it would surmise that one could get a cheap District EOY contract and use them to supplement the W57 points for booking.  Has anybody tried that?

Sean


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## tombanjo (Feb 7, 2020)

I just got a district platinum annual week and it appears that my W57 and District points are in a single bucket. I have only had it a month, so I do not have complete experience with it. But my bHC shows the combined total of the two. My HCNY is a separate account. Do you have the same two accounts/ two club dues setup ?


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## Smclaugh99 (Feb 7, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I just got a district platinum annual week and it appears that my W57 and District points are in a single bucket. I have only had it a month, so I do not have complete experience with it. But my bHC shows the combined total of the two. My HCNY is a separate account. Do you have the same two accounts/ two club dues setup ?


Yes - though it is one login, my HCNY is a separate account from my other HGVC account number (which includes a platinum SeaWorld and a gold W57).  Thus, there are 2 dashboards as well. I have to toggle between account numbers to book depending on which points I want to use.  This is almost entirely because HCNY is treated as a separate entity (with its own club dues).  Again, those HCNY points are way too expensive and I only will use them there. As I said previously, I always have liked owning at W57, so I was on the lookout for resale back into owning there. I like HCNY when I bring my family for longer visits (due to the 2BR) but like the studios at W57 when I travel to NYC solo. I also like the AI reservation option that I lost when I sold back my prior W57 contracts. I’m very intrigued at getting a District contract to boost the bHC points bucket. Tombanjo, you may be the only person right now who has a deed in both places. And if you got both bHC via resale, all the more impressive!  Congrats!  

Sean


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## tombanjo (Feb 7, 2020)

5750 for 7200 point district   W57th was resale too.


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## Nomad420 (Feb 7, 2020)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Yes - though it is one login, my HCNY is a separate account from my other HGVC account number (which includes a platinum SeaWorld and a gold W57).  Thus, there are 2 dashboards as well. I have to toggle between account numbers to book depending on which points I want to use.  This is almost entirely because HCNY is treated as a separate entity (with its own club dues).  Again, those HCNY points are way too expensive and I only will use them there. As I said previously, I always have liked owning at W57, so I was on the lookout for resale back into owning there. I like HCNY when I bring my family for longer visits (due to the 2BR) but like the studios at W57 when I travel to NYC solo. I also like the AI reservation option that I lost when I sold back my prior W57 contracts. I’m very intrigued at getting a District contract to boost the bHC points bucket. Tombanjo, you may be the only person right now who has a deed in both places. And if you got both bHC via resale, all the more impressive!  Congrats!
> 
> Sean


Multiple of your above posts have echoed my feeling about W57th and HCNY.   I would love to buy a District property as well for the same reason (boost points for HCNY use) but am still a bit skeptical.  I almost bought at the Elara on the cheap thinking I could use the points at HCNY months back and was warned here and elsewhere that it would fly.  I have another trip to the Elara coming and have to do the obligatory "update" meeting and will ask what my options are if any.


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## tombanjo (Feb 7, 2020)

only HCNY points can be used at HCNY. No other points, no club season for other than owners to book. (You may be able to access via RCI, but have no access to lounge)  W57th has 59 day season where any HGVC points can be used.


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## brp (Feb 7, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> only HCNY points can be used at HCNY. No other points, no club season for other than owners to book. (You may be able to access via RCI, but have no access to lounge)  W57th has 59 day season where any HGVC points can be used.



Right. To echo this in *bold: Other bHC points will not boost points for HCNY use. Nothing will except more HCNY points.*

There is nothing unequivocal about this. *Only HCNY points at HCNY during Club season. Period.*

Cheers.


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## GT75 (Feb 7, 2020)

Let’s ensure I understand correctly:

Only HCNY points can be used to book at HCNY.    That makes sence because that is the rules for HCNY.

What about if someone owns several bHC properties such was W57, the District, the Quinn, Charleston?   Can you use any of your bHC points to book at any bHC which you own (in other words are they all in the same bucket)?


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## tombanjo (Feb 7, 2020)

It would appear so, I have various reservations, but for 2022, there are no reservations so the total "By Hilton Club" points are the district and W57th combined.


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## Nomad420 (Feb 8, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> It would appear so, I have various reservations, but for 2022, there are no reservations so the total "By Hilton Club" points are the district and W57th combined.
> View attachment 17129


Thanks for the clarification, so indeed it appears you can then book using your points acquired points from the District and 57th AT HCNY.  Is the summary page relatively new, I mean over the past two to three years.   I swear the points from my HCNY property, now this is going years back,  were originally posted as just HGVC points and they more recently, maybe a couple years back converted to "By Hilton Club" points on my summary page.  I will pull up my statement later today but seems like the above it obviously what I will see.  The reason for my lack of knowledge with this is I basically always use my points (bHC) at ONLY my HCNY property and virtually no where else for the reasons discussed above.  So I typically called or used the web site and just booked it.  As you know it is generally super easy to book HCNY as a owner.  So it appears that indeed this concept of a "club within a club", like it or not (and I am not sure I do), is becoming a very big reality.


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## tombanjo (Feb 8, 2020)

Hilton Club New York is not bHC , and district points will not work. Completely different. Only points bought as HCNY work for HCNY. it is a separate account with zero cross capabilities


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## brp (Feb 8, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> Thanks for the clarification, so indeed it appears you can then book using your points acquired points from the District and 57th AT HCNY.



As mentioned several times, simply *NO*, you cannot.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Feb 8, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> Hilton Club New York is not bHC , and district points will not work. Completely different. Only points bought as HCNY work for HCNY. it is a separate account with zero cross capabilities


OK now so still confused as I have been for years with this d@mn situation with buying at HCNY.   I have posted about this before as well and things have indeed changed over the years and have been discussed here and on other threads.  So I just check my account and indeed it looks nothing like yours.   My points are labeled simply and ambiguously so "Club Points"  Not "By Hilton Club Points" .  I believe I just took that as be synonymous with "HGVC" points.  I realize I can use my "Club Points" anywhere but I did quickly relize it was foolish to do given the cost.  I knew for probably over a year now that I could not buy other properties such as in Vegas and use those points at HCNY which I have previously posted was never told to me and in fact years back when I bought at HCNY I  I was told the opposite .... I think we all know that game.   I guess my confusion is that I thought "By Hilton Club" points COULD be used at HCNY.  Again, it is a shame they can't and I guess all the more reasons why I won't be buying any more "Hilton" properties.  Again, I feel a little bait and switched here but what else is new with HGVC.


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## tombanjo (Feb 8, 2020)

HCNY is in a separate account, and yes, they call them the same "ClubPoints" as regular HGVC points. But, at least for me, the HCNY is all by itself, and the other properties I have are in a separate account broken up by "By Hilton Club Points" and ordinary "ClubPoints". So even though both HCNY points and all regular HGVC points are both called "ClubPoints" they are in two completely different buckets and "regular" club points can't even see the reservation window for HCNY let alone book with them.


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## ccwu (Feb 8, 2020)

I think they put it in the same bucket,but if you have 5000 in 57th street and 7000 in dc district with total of 12,000 points in the Bucket. You can make 57 th street home reservation and club reservation max 5,000 points. You will not be able to book 12,000 point worth of club reservation in 9 months window. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brp (Feb 8, 2020)

ccwu said:


> I think they put it in the same bucket,but if you have 5000 in 57th street and 7000 in dc district with total of 12,000 points in the Bucket. You can make 57 th street home reservation and club reservation max 5,000 points. You will not be able to book 12,000 point worth of club reservation in 9 months window.



I see. So even though they're lumped together, the system "knows" when trying to book? This was definitely *not * the case when bHC and HVGC points were together, and why the separated them. Seems that the booking system has gotten smarter.

Edit: Appears that the quoted post above is not correct. Looking again, appears conjecture rather than experiment.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Feb 8, 2020)

ccwu said:


> I think they put it in the same bucket,but if you have 5000 in 57th street and 7000 in dc district with total of 12,000 points in the Bucket. You can make 57 th street home reservation and club reservation max 5,000 points. You will not be able to book 12,000 point worth of club reservation in 9 months window.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks to all for being patent and clarifying I think what all would agree an over complex way of posting your points.  Also, if the above it true (ccwu post) this is also seems restrictive to "HIlton Club Point" owners.  You would think that owning at both 57th st.  and district the points would be interchangeable (in the 9 month window) as both properties are "bHC" properties.  Wasn't that the idea of setting up the "bHC" in the first place?  Curious if that was explicitly  told to buyers of these properties.   

My brother has owned at 57th st.  since it was basically built didn't realize it was was "technically" a separate club, "bHC" until about two years ago.  He, and others have who posted here, have stated that when 57th St. first opened "bHC" was not even a concept.   Not sure how soon following the open of 57St.  that things changed.


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## tombanjo (Feb 8, 2020)

I could make reservation at w57th in May for more than my 5250 points (which BTW are already booked). So the district points are good at w57th. Hilton Club New York is NOT an bHC property. Completely and absolutely a one off.


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## brp (Feb 8, 2020)

Nomad420 said:


> Thanks to all for being patent and clarifying I think what all would agree an over complex way of posting your points.  Also, if the above it true (ccwu post) this is also seems restrictive to "HIlton Club Point" owners.  You would think that owning at both 57th st.  and district the points would be interchangeable (in the 9 month window) as both properties are "bHC" properties.  Wasn't that the idea of setting up the "bHC" in the first place?  Curious if that was explicitly  told to buyers of these properties.



Even though it would benefit me, I do not believe that they should be interchangeable and the details are very explicitly written in the club rules. Nothing is hidden. The details about only HCNY into HCNY are there. The rules about using bHC points across different resorts (i.e. that they are not interchangeable) are there along specific windows are there.



Nomad420 said:


> My brother has owned at 57th st.  since it was basically built didn't realize it was was "technically" a separate club, "bHC" until about two years ago.  He, and others have who posted here, have stated that when 57th St. first opened "bHC" was not even a concept.   Not sure how soon following the open of 57St.  that things changed.



Things never changed for the way W. 57th was handled. True, it was not called "by Hilton Club" then, but from when it first opened the restriction on using non-W57th points being relegated to a smaller window than standard Club Season were well-documented. What did change is that a loophole in the system whereby folks who also had HGVC points could use them during Club Season at W. 57th was closed. We used that glitch to use Flamingo points at W. 57th during Club Season until they closed the loophole 

But the published rules were the same throughout. The only addition is the added rules affecting interactions among the various bHC resorts now that there are more.

Cheers.


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## Smclaugh99 (Feb 8, 2020)

tombanjo said:


> I could make reservation at w57th in May for more than my 5250 points (which BTW are already booked). So the district points are good at w57th. Hilton Club New York is NOT an bHC property. Completely and absolutely a one off.
> 
> View attachment 17139


Thank you so much Tombanjo for testing the bHC hypothesis. It would have to be a very sophisticated code to differentiate among the bHC points, so at least (for now) the bHC bucket can be “cross-contaminated”. It doesn’t mean that one who does NOT own at a bHC location can use other bHC points for 9 month booking there. You have to own in multiple bHC locations. This “loophole” seems far less egregious than when we were able to supplement regular HGVC club points into the W57 booking window (something I regularly did - and was also encouraged to do by the sales people as late as 2016). As I posited before, how many individual owners have deeds at 2, 3, 4+ bHC locations?  I have to think it is a tiny number of owners (looking at you, Tombanjo 

Regarding HCNY, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but for Nomad - yes, our HCNY points are “Club Points” with all the benefits of regular HGVC Club points, but with the ability to book at HCNY (plus convert any number to HH at 50:1). You have to toggle out of that account number to look at your “regular” HGVC Club Points and bHC points in your member dashboard. Despite owning these “regular” Club and bHC points, they cannot be used to book at HCNY. Heck, I had 40,000 Bonus points for “upgrading” into HCNY, but those could NOT be used to book HCNY. As a happy owner at HCNY, I kind of like the exclusivity as there is far less booking competition. Hope all that makes sense. 

Sean


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## JohnPaul (Feb 9, 2020)

I believe the rules (have always) said you must use your bhc points at the property they pertain to. However, I don’t think this is enforceable with the current systems.


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## Nomad420 (Feb 9, 2020)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Regarding HCNY, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but for Nomad - yes, our HCNY points are “Club Points” with all the benefits of regular HGVC Club points, but with the ability to book at HCNY (plus convert any number to HH at 50:1). You have to toggle out of that account number to look at your “regular” HGVC Club Points and bHC points in your member dashboard. Despite owning these “regular” Club and bHC points, they cannot be used to book at HCNY. Heck, I had 40,000 Bonus points for “upgrading” into HCNY, but those could NOT be used to book HCNY. As a happy owner at HCNY, I kind of like the exclusivity as there is far less booking competition. Hope all that makes sense.
> 
> Sean


Yes, and thank you all for your kind responses despite my seemingly constant confusion with all of this.  I will say yes I do actually LOVE the "exclusivity" of HCNY and with that the ability to book for close in with almost no problems.   Thanks to all again.


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## junk (Feb 9, 2020)

Thank you for really beneficial information.
1. HCNY is completely different animal. Don’t think combining points with any Hilton system.
2. There is a loophole which enable multi unit owners to book non home dHC or District with combined points.
3. The rule restricts owners to book home resort with greater point than actually own at home.

The loophole may be closed anytime. It is risk to purchase cheap district resale points to boost bHC points in order to book w. 57th.
Please advise if my understanding is correct.


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