# Microsoft Surface priced at $499



## Elan (Oct 16, 2012)

There had been some discussion here previously regarding the price point for the new Windows 8 tablets.  According to at least one source, the new MS Surface tablet running Windows 8 RT will be priced at $499 for the 32GB model.   More details here:

http://liliputing.com/2012/10/microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-coming-oct-26th-for-499-and-up.html


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

Official Press Announcement. 

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Oct12/10-16announcementPR.aspx


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## Elan (Oct 16, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Official Press Announcement.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Oct12/10-16announcementPR.aspx



  Thanks for that.  Always nice to see the official announcement.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

Thank you for your order.

Your receipt has been sent to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Order #:MSXXXXXXXXX

Surface 64 GB w/ Surface Type Cover
Quantity:  
1

Product available on your order will be delivered by 10/26.


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## Ken555 (Oct 16, 2012)

I really hope this succeeds to be a true competitor to the iPad, because Apple definitely needs some real competition. And right now there really isn't any.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

I get a free one but my fiance and I dont share well, so that was hers I preordered.

Ive been using one for the last few months and I love it.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 16, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I really hope this succeeds to be a true competitor to the iPad, because Apple definitely needs some real competition. And right now there really isn't any.



LOL.  That statement I'm sure is going to generate a lot of responses.  BTW, I agree with it.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 16, 2012)

Boy, I though Apple was gouging people charging $30 for their cover.  $100-$120 just for the cover?  Wow!


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

Clemson Fan said:


> Boy, I though Apple was gouging people charging $30 for their cover.  $100-$120 just for the cover?  Wow!



The 32GB Surface with KB is the same price as the 32GB iPad w/out KB. 
Plus the Surface comes loaded with Office.
And a USB port. 

So you can get the 32GB Surface w/out KB for $499 and then use a BT keyboard if you want to not buy the KB.


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## slum808 (Oct 16, 2012)

Nico,

Does MS have an integrated video solution for the surface. I'm currently using a Motorola xoom and while I like Android, there is no easy way to view the movies and kids tv shows both on and off line. 

I've tried;
Google play; Allows download to device, disables HDMI output, poor kids selection.
Netflix; Streaming only, allows HDMI to TV, great selection on Kids TV shows
Amazon; Web browser only streaming, no app, disables HDMI

I'm looking for an system/app that allows downloading to divice and output to HDMI. So far there's none for Android.


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## pgnewarkboy (Oct 16, 2012)

An article I read says that in Jan. they will be selling a surface that runs a full version of windows 8.  That may cost $1000.  It seems they are pursuing the business strategy.  They are hooked into hundreds of millions businesses worldwide with their desktops.  MS will give them the same power on a tablet.  Of course, people take their work wherever they go these days.  The surface is slimmer and lighter than ipad.  You can get a cover that becomes a keyboard.  This is a big time move by a giant.  If I was google or apple I would be concerned.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

slum808 said:


> Nico,
> 
> Does MS have an integrated video solution for the surface. I'm currently using a Motorola xoom and while I like Android, there is no easy way to view the movies and kids tv shows both on and off line.
> 
> ...



You will need to get the cable ($39)
Surface HD Digital AV Adapter


> Show off everything you’ve got on Surface on an HD-quality screen. Designed for Surface with Windows RT, proprietary HD Digital AV Adapter connects Surface to any HDMI-compatible display. Stream movies, play video games, and watch slideshows in high definition.



You can use the XBox Video app to download/play video.


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## persia (Oct 16, 2012)

The US$499/599 version is ARM based like the iPad, it runs Windows RT a sort of iOS style version of Windows 8.  The i5 intel Surface that can run Windows 8 has no price yet.  The MS Office version that comes with it is the student trial version....

THe cameras are 720p.  It's overpriced.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

Office will be updated with the final version via Update when its available, so its not just a "trial".

It also has a USB port (something that is additional accessory for iPad).

Its competitively priced. Those that thought the rumored $299 prices were reality, were not living in reality.


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## Elan (Oct 16, 2012)

persia said:


> It's overpriced.



  Just like the iPad.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 16, 2012)

Time will tell, but I think Microsoft missed the mark. While I was hoping for a super cheap alternative to the iPad, at this price point, it is by no means an iPad killer. The average tablet user will not see any value in the Office software being included. This could be attractive to enterprise users, but they will be waiting for the full Windows 8 version and won't be buying the RT version. I simply don't see them stealing a lot of market share from Apple. Their target audience is too small at this price point with Apple already having a huge stronghold. The lack of G3/4 is also a huge limitation.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 16, 2012)

A serious pricing mistake IMO.  They needed to be discounted compared to the iPad to complete with the iPad.

I predict the entry level model will be discounted to less than $300 by Black Friday, maybe less than $250.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 16, 2012)

Elan said:


> Just like the iPad.



The majority of consumers clearly don't agree.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

ondeadlin said:


> A serious pricing mistake IMO.  They needed to be discounted compared to the iPad to complete with the iPad.



Are you not paying attention. The entry level model is priced $100 under the 32GB iPad 3. 

And that is without taking into account Office + the USB port, which is extra on an iPad.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Time will tell, but I think Microsoft missed the mark.



Why because they aren't giving the stuff away. It was always meant to be priced competitively against the iPad, which it is. The numbers arent out yet, but I will be willing to bet that Microsoft is already selling the Surface at a loss.



dioxide45 said:


> This could be attractive to enterprise users, but they will be waiting for the full Windows 8 version and won't be buying the RT version.



This again, is inaccurate. Enterprises will not be solely adopting the Pro version. There is plenty of value in the RT version.



dioxide45 said:


> Their target audience is too small at this price point with Apple already having a huge stronghold.



Despite what Apple loyalists would like to think, there is market segment that does not want to buy into the Apple ecosystem.



dioxide45 said:


> The lack of G3/4 is also a huge limitation.



Wrong again, the majority of iPads sold are not the 3G model. Remember this is v1.

People said that Microsoft had no chance against Sony and the Playstation with the XBox. That Microsoft had "missed the boat". Look how that turned out...

The market needs competition. Period.


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## Talent312 (Oct 16, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Time will tell, but I think Microsoft missed the mark. While I was hoping for a super cheap alternative to the iPad, at this price point, it is by no means an iPad killer.



I'm not sure that was their intent, but instead to deliver a product that does more to keep their existing customers on the MS campus. Rather than watch their customers migrate to iPads, their goal may be simply to stop the bleeding.

In our office, there's been talk of replacing our Dell laptops (almost everyone has one) with iPads, only it can't run our proprietary software. Our database runs under Win7 and it merges docs w- Word, so Surface would be a natural fit.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 16, 2012)

The "iPad Killer" crap came from the media trying to be sensational...


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## ondeadlin (Oct 16, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Are you not paying attention. The entry level model is priced $100 under the 32GB iPad 3.
> 
> And that is without taking into account Office + the USB port, which is extra on an iPad.



Your response is reflective of why MS doesn't get it IMO.  You value things that others don't value.  Office?  Not a priority on a tablet - the iPad proves that.  A USB port?  Ditto.  Do they have value?  Sure.  Some.  But they're not difference makers.

Plus you're completely overlooking the fact that almost all users will have to learn a new OS if they buy the Surface.  It might be a good OS, but it's still new.  And a lot of those consumers are already familiar with IOS, which is why you need to build in a discount.

That's not even getting into the fact IOS is pretty hard to beat for ease of use.

As far as the price comparison, again, it's nice that it's 32GB, but MS products are generally bigger memory hogs, so the difference is marginal.  Most consumers will simply do an apples-to-apples comparison of the two lowest-priced models, i.e. $499 to $499.  And that's not even getting into the folks who'll buy the still-supported iPad 2.

The $100 touch cover?  Also overpriced.

BTW, I'm typing this on a MacBook running Windows.  I don't own a tablet, but I'll purchase one within the next six months or so.  I'm your consumer - a guy who uses both systems and could be convinced to buy a Surface if it were priced right.  At $599?  No shot.

I'll stand by my prediction of deep discounting by Black Monday - otherwise you're looking at the new Zune.


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## Elan (Oct 16, 2012)

ondeadlin said:


> The majority of consumers clearly don't agree.



  At no time have I ever claimed that there is a shortage of uneducated consumers.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 16, 2012)

Elan said:


> At no time have I ever claimed that there is a shortage of uneducated consumers.



That's honestly the same thing as saying, "I'm smarter than the vast majority of tablet buyers."

And you know what? Even if it's true - and it might be - it's irrelevant.  A business has to deal with the market as it is, not the market as it should be. In the market as it is, the iPad is considered correctly priced based on sales. 

Ironically, your statement here is very similar to what Apple snobs used to say about Windows, i.e. "Windows is a horribly clunky operating system, smart people buy Mac."  Were the right?  It didn't matter to MS - they were printing money.  

Ditto for Apple right now.

If MS wants a piece of that cash, the argument to make IMO isn't that the iPad is overpriced, it's that it's worth trying their tablet for $299.  That might work.  Maybe.  If the product is good enough.

At this price?  Like I said, Zune II.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 16, 2012)

ondeadlin said:


> I'll stand by my prediction of deep discounting by Black Monday.



So should I buy the Surface now in hopes that I will get a refund for the difference like HP did with their TouchPad a year ago when they had a fire sale?


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## ondeadlin (Oct 16, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> So should I buy the Surface now in hopes that I will get a refund for the difference like HP did with their TouchPad a year ago when they had a fire sale?



Not a bet I'd make, my friend.


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## persia (Oct 16, 2012)

"Legacy" Windows software won't run on it, and by legacy I mean pretty much everything that was ever written for Windows....


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

ondeadlin said:


> Your response is reflective of why MS doesn't get it IMO.  You value things that others don't value.  Office?  Not a priority on a tablet - the iPad proves that.  A USB port?  Ditto.  Do they have value?  Sure.  Some.  But they're not difference makers.



If the iPad proves that, why do people still ask for it? Why do they provide an accessory for it, if like you said "others dont value it"?

Just because YOU don't value it, doesnt mean other people don't value it. Pretty short sighted.



ondeadlin said:


> And a lot of those consumers are already familiar with IOS, which is why you need to build in a discount.



Yes, Im sure shareholders would love to hear that Microsoft should sell HW at an additional $100-$200/per piece loss because of this. Sorry, not going to fly, nor is it a valid reason to do it.



ondeadlin said:


> As far as the price comparison, again, it's nice that it's 32GB, but MS products are generally bigger memory hogs, so the difference is marginal.



You do realize that 32GB represents storage and doesnt have anything to do with memory, right? 



ondeadlin said:


> Most consumers will simply do an apples-to-apples comparison of the two lowest-priced models, i.e. $499 to $499.



Ok, lets play your game.

$499 iPad 3  $499 Surface
16 GB          32GB

So "apples to apples", at the SAME price point, I get double the storage. Thats not including the items you say "no one cares about."



ondeadlin said:


> The $100 touch cover?  Also overpriced.



Don't buy it then. Its not required to use the device. You can get a BT KB and use it that way if you want a KB so bad.



ondeadlin said:


> I'll stand by my prediction of deep discounting by Black Monday -



Microsoft isn't going to "fire sale" its flagship hardware less than 30 days after launch. 



ondeadlin said:


> otherwise you're looking at the new Zune.



Saying it over and over again, doesnt make it anymore clever...


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

oh second thought nvm


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

persia said:


> "Legacy" Windows software won't run on it, and by legacy I mean pretty much everything that was ever written for Windows....



Clearly you do not understand the differences in CPU architectures. You can't simply make software that was designed for the x86 chipset run on ARM.

I wonder how all the Apple people went and installed their legacy OSX software on their iPad...oh wait, they didn't.

The fact is companies will need to make ARM based software if they want it to run on iOS or Windows RT.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Well for something that missed the boat, the $499 model is already sold out in presale and backordered until Black Friday.


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## Beefnot (Oct 17, 2012)

Hypnotiq is spitting the fire tonight. You go boy.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm curious to see how this plays out, especially in conjunction with Windows 8.

I'm intrigued by the surface while I'm frankly scared of Windows 8.  I actually like Windows 7 quite a bit and I'm NOT looking forward to having to re-learn a "new" OS with Windows 8.  I like Windows 7 better then OS X and my main computer is a MacBook Air that I use Windows 7 Ultimate on the vast majority of the time instead of OS X.  That being said, with things moving to the cloud the underlying computer and OS are becoming less and less important.  My EMR (Electronic Medical Record) is now cloud based and I can access it through a web browser and it doesn't matter which type of computer or OS I access it from including the iPad.  I can foresee a time in the next 5-10 years where the underlying OS will be really unimportant.

I view this as pretty much a all-in bet for MS.  I don't know if it's a good bet or not, but if Windows 8 is not really easy and intuitive to use then I it has the possibility of being a disaster because people will quickly move on to a different OS.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 17, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Clearly you do not understand the differences in CPU architectures. You can't simply make software that was designed for the x86 chipset run on ARM.
> 
> I wonder how all the Apple people went and installed their legacy OSX software on their iPad...oh wait, they didn't.
> 
> The fact is companies will need to make ARM based software if they want it to run on iOS or Windows RT.



Actually, companies are moving their software to cloud based solutions to where the underlying CPU architecture and OS will be fairly meaningless.  The simplest and easiest to use and least buggy underlying OS is going to win out.

Good luck MS!


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## pgnewarkboy (Oct 17, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Time will tell, but I think Microsoft missed the mark. While I was hoping for a super cheap alternative to the iPad, at this price point, it is by no means an iPad killer. The average tablet user will not see any value in the Office software being included. This could be attractive to enterprise users, but they will be waiting for the full Windows 8 version and won't be buying the RT version. I simply don't see them stealing a lot of market share from Apple. Their target audience is too small at this price point with Apple already having a huge stronghold. The lack of G3/4 is also a huge limitation.



MS is the king of the office. Period. They are king of the workplace. Period. Apple and Google don't come close.  MS is now moving their entire workplace might to the tablet and tablet hybrid world.     They have to do it because of technological changes pioneered or popularized by Apple - the Ipad. This is not about the number of tablets sold today - market share today.  This is about a fundamental change in how people use technology to work.  People in business already have thousands of customized programs that they use for their work. These programs are built for MS windows. These programs WILL run on MS tablets.  This is far more important to business than an APP for giving you the weather, the news, your nutrition, or your heart rate.  The giant is moving an installed base of hundreds of millions of businesses and tens of thousands of ESSENTIAL programs for these business from the desktop to the tablet and tablet hybrid.  Any so called media expert who misses this point is missing the whole point of what is happening.

THERE IS VERY LITTLE DOUBT that this will work for MS.


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## pgnewarkboy (Oct 17, 2012)

Clemson Fan said:


> Actually, companies are moving their software to cloud based solutions to where the underlying CPU architecture and OS will be fairly meaningless.  The simplest and easiest to use and least buggy underlying OS is going to win out.
> 
> Good luck MS!



The cloud for running business is starting to happen but is at the moment extremely overhyped by the Media.  Note that I mention cloud for "RUNNING" a business.  Storage is the biggest area of growth in the cloud allowing for the development of smaller devices.  This does not mean that businesses are or will be entirely running their businesses from the cloud anytime soon. There are tremendous security and bandwidth issues with using the cloud.  Not a big deal for your home photos and videos and music.  A VERY BIG deal for running your entire business.  MS provides cloud services for those that want or need them.   For the foreseeable future, however,  Business will still be running their crucial, critical, sensitive, business operations OFF-Line while using cloud services for some needs.


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## ondeadlin (Oct 17, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Hypnotiq is spitting the fire tonight. You go boy.



Actually, I'd say he's coming off as incredibly defensive and somewhat arrogant.

Not much point in fighting over this one, though - we can just check back in a year and see what kind of market share the Surface has.  My guess is it will be minimal.


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

I agree with those who state that the price is right. I'm not sure if it's going to stay at this price or not, but it seems to me that this can't be a very cheap product for Microsoft (either to manufacture or sell, as it needs a high perceived value to compete effectively with the iPad). As others have already said, this will help Microsoft keep the business customer happy, and a lot of consumers will buy it, too. 

As for the technical comparison with iPad, I'm not sure that is really relevant. Most who have an iPad don't need a USB port. I haven't needed one in the 2.5 years I've had an iPad. And while there are ways to get it to work, I don't believe it's supported - the use of the dock connector is limited on purpose. iCloud works, though I still backup my iPad when physically connected to my Mac (I don't really find it a problem, though I expect I'll switch to cloud soon, as I've done on my iPhone). 

I think the focus should be not on the technical aspects of the product (it should be a given that it uses the latest technology, has a great display, good third party accessory market (err...does it?), etc) but rather on the usability of the device and how it fits within your workflow. If you rely on Windows for work and the Surface will easily permit you to use your systems with a tablet, then it may be a great fit for you. But if you've already invested in iOS then there is likely a solution that will permit you to continue using iOS and access your office systems - Microsoft is late to the game and as such there are many solutions in place already for iPad etc.

I suspect Microsoft will be very quick to release other formats of the Surface (different sizes, etc) at different price points. I don't see Microsoft delaying the release of additional models as Apple has done. The plan for consistency with Win8 across laptop, tablet, etc will make it easy to transition for those reluctant (or unable) to adapt, assuming they make the transition to 8. 

FWIW, I think the Microsoft cover/keyboard combo looks really quite cool. When I get back to the States (I'm about to go thru the Chunnel! Typing this on my iPad using a mifi to get online) I intend to stop by a Microsoft store and check it out - the description of the black keyboard with a more real keyboard feel sounds great to me. I haven't been able to convince myself to buy one of the options for iPad yet since I really like the weight of the iPad and I don't have much problem typing on the virtual keyboard (as in, right now!).


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

Microsoft Surface RT pricing 'aggressive and mystifying'

http://www.computerworlduk.com/in-depth/mobile-wireless/3405541/microsoft-surface-rt-pricing-aggressive-mystifying/


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## glypnirsgirl (Oct 17, 2012)

This sounds exactly what I need. 

I didn't like my first generation so I gave it to my husband. He uses it for watching video while he walks on the treadmill. He also uses it for the kindle app. 

I have my second Ipad. It is essentially a portal to my desktop. I don't use it for anything else. I don't like the touch screen. I don't like the lack of feedback. I would much prefer a keyboard.

I am used to the MS office apps --- and frankly, I don't want to use something that is too different from what I am used to. I don't need cutting edge, I need something that is useful to me right out of the box.

I recognize that I am NOT an early adapter. I am a dinosaur. I learned my first word processing program on a Vectorgraphic computer in 1977 --- the program was called "electric pencil." For years, I refused to learn a new WP because it seemed pointless to me. I use Word almost exclusively now, but I still miss WP5.1 my all time favorite word processor.

I am not a rarity.

elaine


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

Elan said:


> At no time have I ever claimed that there is a shortage of uneducated consumers.



There are some days I just love your posts, Jim!


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> This sounds exactly what I need.
> 
> I didn't like my first generation so I gave it to my husband. He uses it for watching video while he walks on the treadmill. He also uses it for the kindle app.
> 
> ...



Did you try Pages and Numbers on your iPad? Did you try a Bluetooth keyboard with your iPad?


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Well for something that missed the boat, the $499 model is already sold out in presale and backordered until Black Friday.



Do you know how many they sold for this first model? (I haven't read much but haven't seen any estimates yet).


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## Passepartout (Oct 17, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Well for something that missed the boat, the $499 model is already sold out in presale and backordered until Black Friday.



Goody! Now I can sit back and limp along with the trusty ol' Win7 laptop and iPad I while the early adopters and iOS fans slug it out. If it looks like Win8/Surface is a winner, I can get it after the holidays. If it's just a 'flash in the pan', I can just go on vacation with the money. Win/win either way.

Surface still looks very cool, though, and I can see something like it in the future.

Santa, are you listening? I've been good.

Jim


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

I don't know how accurate this is, but it's an interesting read about pricing. If this is correct, the cost to manufacture the current Surface model is $308.82.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/tablets/21115/400-500-surface-rt-tablets-wont-overtake-ipad

http://www.tech-thoughts.net/2012/10/microsoft-surface-rt-pro-bom-price-estimate.html#.UHQpDfl25Bx


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## persia (Oct 17, 2012)

Another question would be how much disk space the apps on RT take.  The OS apparently takes up 10 GB of space.  If the apps on RT are as big as they are on the desktop version then 22 GB (32 - 10) is not a lot of space.  I realise they want people to store their data in their iCloud-like service, but I am not convinced.  Microsoft rarely gets things right in their first attempt, so if things go the typical way Surface 2 would be the better bet.


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## glypnirsgirl (Oct 17, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Did you try Pages and Numbers on your iPad? Did you try a Bluetooth keyboard with your iPad?



nope! I still have it. I carry it around with me wherever I go just in case I need it. Maybe i will have my associate show me how to use it _again_ --- with those specific functions. Thanks!

elaine


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> nope! I still have it. I carry it around with me wherever I go just in case I need it. Maybe i will have my associate show me how to use it _again_ --- with those specific functions. Thanks!
> 
> elaine



Before buying a Surface, since you have an iPad, I encourage you to try Pages (for MS Word compatibility) and Numbers (for MS Excel) and a Bluetooth keyboard (which you have? All you need to do is turn it on and if it hasn't been setup previously go to System and Bluetooth and make sure it's selected; if you set it up previously it will just start to work). 

With Pages and Numbers you can open Word and Excel documents (from email, Dropbox, and any number of other ways of transferring them to the iPad) and save them as Word or Excel format and email etc them to whomever you're working with at the time. It's really quite easy and works well.


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## persia (Oct 17, 2012)

A friend of mine inside Microsoft tells me that MS Office for iOS is basically a finished product but it's release is being held to allow the Surface to hit the market and get an audience first.

Pages, Numbers and Keynote are really nice applications, I use them regularly on a Mac as well as on iOS, they suffer from the perception that they are not MS Office and therefore not compatible, which is a completely wrong perception.


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

persia said:


> A friend of mine inside Microsoft tells me that MS Office for iOS is basically a finished product but it's release is being held to allow the Surface to hit the market and get an audience first.
> 
> Pages, Numbers and Keynote are really nice applications, I use them regularly on a Mac as well as on iOS, they suffer from the perception that they are not MS Office and therefore not compatible, which is a completely wrong perception.



I will buy MS Office for iPad the first day it's available! It's always great to have options. And I completely agree with you about Apple's productivity apps (especially Keynote, which really is so much easier to use than PowerPoint and works great on iPad).


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 17, 2012)

pgnewarkboy said:


> People in business already have thousands of customized programs that they use for their work. These programs are built for MS windows. These programs WILL run on MS tablets.



Or will they?  Didn't hypnotiq just scold someone about the difference of ARM and x86 CPU architecture?  It sounds to me like these thousands of legacy programs will in fact NOT run on the new Surface?


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Clemson Fan said:


> Or will they?  Didn't hypnotiq just scold someone about the difference of ARM and x86 CPU architecture?  It sounds to me like these thousands of legacy programs will in fact NOT run on the new Surface?



Scold? Thats taking it a little far.

There seems to be some misunderstanding around this.

Surface RT, running the RT version of Windows 8 on ARM based chipset, will only run RT versions of applications.

Surface Pro, running the Pro version of Windows 8 on Intel based x86, will run x86 version of applications.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Since you have an iPad, I encourage you to try Pages (for MS Word compatibility) and Numbers (for MS Excel) and a Bluetooth keyboard (which you have? All you need to do is turn it on and if it hasn't been setup previously go to System and Bluetooth and make sure it's selected; if you set it up previously it will just start to work).
> 
> With Pages and Numbers you can open Word and Excel documents (from email, Dropbox, and any number of other ways of transferring them to the iPad) and save them as Word or Excel format and email etc them to whomever you're working with at the time. It's really quite easy and works well.



Great advice from Ken. I currently use these on my iPad2 and they work great.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Goody! Now I can sit back and limp along with the trusty ol' Win7 laptop and iPad I while the early adopters and iOS fans slug it out. If it looks like Win8/Surface is a winner, I can get it after the holidays. If it's just a 'flash in the pan', I can just go on vacation with the money. Win/win either way.
> 
> Surface still looks very cool, though, and I can see something like it in the future.
> 
> ...



Good plan. Wasn't it your stepson who works here?   No, there is no employee special pricing for it but you can still ask for one from Christmas. 

PS - PM me his name, I may know him.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Do you know how many they sold for this first model? (I haven't read much but haven't seen any estimates yet).



No, I dont. I was hoping that there would be an inital press release with it but so far nothing.

I believe, according to press releases, the first run (to carry through the holiday season) was for 5 million units. Im not aware of what breakdown across the various units, just 5 million total. 

I figure we'll probably see those #'s around the 2nd week of January, right before quaterly earnings are released.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 17, 2012)

pgnewarkboy said:


> The cloud for running business is starting to happen but is at the moment extremely overhyped by the Media.  Note that I mention cloud for "RUNNING" a business.  Storage is the biggest area of growth in the cloud allowing for the development of smaller devices.  This does not mean that businesses are or will be entirely running their businesses from the cloud anytime soon. There are tremendous security and bandwidth issues with using the cloud.  Not a big deal for your home photos and videos and music.  A VERY BIG deal for running your entire business.  MS provides cloud services for those that want or need them.   For the foreseeable future, however,  Business will still be running their crucial, critical, sensitive, business operations OFF-Line while using cloud services for some needs.



I actually run a small business of 10 employees and I'm in the process of moving everything over to a cloud based solution and dumping my big, bulky in office server.  My EMR/PM (Electronic Medical Record/Practice Management) software is used for pretty much everything including patient records, accounts receivable, scheduling, billing, etc.  It now has a cloud based solution that's fully supported and HIPAA compliant.  Their cloud based solution can be accessed by almost any computer, ipad, smartphone, etc.

I now won't have to worry about future updates and pushing them out to all my computers as that will be done already.  I won't have to worry about back-up as the cloud based solution has multiple server farms in different states that back-up to each other 4 times a day.  I'm going to be dumping my server pretty soon and won't have all the headaches associated with maintaining that.

My main worry now will be internet connectivity because if I lose that I'm screwed.  We currently use cable broadband, but I'm going to also get DSL as a back-up with a new router that will be able to seamlessly switch between the 2 if one happens to go out.

Again, I don't know the future and how things will play out, but I do know as a small business owner I'm moving the RUNNING of my small business over to the cloud.  I'm sure it won't be problem free, but I'm betting those problems will be fewer then maintaining a big and bulky in office server.  BTW, I'm also seriously thinking of moving my phone system over to a cloud based solution.

My bet is that there's a company out there that very few people know about that will become a dominant new player in the next 10-20 years.  I don't think MS will be going out of business, but I do think there's a real possibility that their dominance in the business world may have reached its peak and it may very well be on its way down.


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## Clemson Fan (Oct 17, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> Clearly you do not understand the differences in CPU architectures.



That sounds like scolding to me.


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## hypnotiq (Oct 17, 2012)

Microsoft Surface is not the only device that is running Windows 8 RT.  There are other offerings from Toshiba, Asus, Samsung, etc.  So there are plenty of other choices out there if you're not happy with Microsoft's offering of hardware. 

We are getting one for free at the company but that didn't stop me from buying another one. I didn't buy it because there was a discount (there is no employee discount) or because of any corporate mandate (there isnt any). I bought it because I believe in it is the best device for what I need to do.

Windows 8 is a change in the way you will use your computer and because of that you will have a learning curve and a challenge with the user base. The challenge that, by nature, people do not like change. They have become accustomed to the way they do things and thats the way they want to do it.

The last big change people had to deal with in Windows is when Microsoft switched from the Classic Start Menu to the new version of the Start Menu (Windows XP).

To me its about having the best tool to do the job. In my house there are iPads, iPhones, iPods, Zunes, Android slate, Android phone, Kindles, Desktop PC's, Laptops, Windows Phone. At one time or another, they filled a particular job.


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## Ken555 (Oct 17, 2012)

Clemson Fan said:


> I actually run a small business of 10 employees and I'm in the process of moving everything over to a cloud based solution and dumping my big, bulky in office server.  My EMR/PM (Electronic Medical Record/Practice Management) software is used for pretty much everything including patient records, accounts receivable, scheduling, billing, etc.  It now has a cloud based solution that's fully supported and HIPAA compliant.  Their cloud based solution can be accessed by almost any computer, ipad, smartphone, etc.



I think it's great this is working for you. It isn't for everyone. We acquired a client after they had made the switch for their medical practice and they hated the cloud/hosted version of their EMR/PM app, in particular because it was soooooo slow (and they had issues using Dragon with it). All the doctors and assistants were complaining, so they decided to go back to what they knew would work - an on premise server. They hired us, my team installed a server and they were up and running and much happier. My point is that there are - at least for the moment - reasons to move slowly into the cloud for your business. And of course, make sure you have backups of your data in your possession (and that it is in a readable format).


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## persia (Oct 17, 2012)

I believe MS has bought a world of confusion by creating two tablets.  People are going to buy the current offering thinking the can run the Windows software they own, when of course they can't.  

Here's a question, if I by MS Office 2013 for Windows 8 will I have to rebuy it for RT?  What about other software?


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## Ken555 (Oct 18, 2012)

hypnotiq said:


> No, I dont. I was hoping that there would be an inital press release with it but so far nothing.
> 
> I believe, according to press releases, the first run (to carry through the holiday season) was for 5 million units. Im not aware of what breakdown across the various units, just 5 million total.
> 
> I figure we'll probably see those #'s around the 2nd week of January, right before quaterly earnings are released.



I'd be very surprised if Microsoft was unable to sell 5 million units by end of year, assuming they're available for the holiday buying period. If they can't, well, that would say a lot about the success of the product.


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## Transit (Oct 18, 2012)

Interesting device. Price point is too high for me to want to test drive it. A lot of good competition in the tablet field for less. I don't see this device as being a big winner IMHO.


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## ondeadlin (Jul 16, 2013)

As predicted, vastly overpriced and now paying the price for it.



> Microsoft has not abandoned Windows RT, the pared-down operating system that powers the Surface RT, but virtually every third-party OEM has either pointedly ignored the OS or publicly announced that they would not support it with devices of their own. Instead, the OEMs have flocked to Windows 8 Pro, even though some analysts question the value of touch devices on a platform whose biggest selling point is legacy software that doesn't support touch.



Maybe if they'd priced it right from the beginning the volume would have  built.  Another typical mistep by MS.


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## persia (Jul 16, 2013)

What is the point of having a legacy desktop on Windows RT if you can't in fact run legacy applications?

I do think Windows 8.1 is a tremendous improvement over Windows 8.0, things actually seem to work in it.


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## Cruiser Too (Aug 19, 2013)

persia said:


> ...... I do think Windows 8.1 is a tremendous improvement over Windows 8.0, things actually seem to work in it.



WHEN is Win. 8.1 gonna be released ?

And... will it be a "free" upgrade to MS Surface Pro ?

I'm in the market for a tablet and can't decide what to get.
80% of my use will be checking email and surfacing the web while on vacation. 
I'm TRIED of lugging my LapTop all over creation !!!!


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## timeos2 (Aug 20, 2013)

Doug.Kaya said:


> WHEN is Win. 8.1 gonna be released ?
> 
> And... will it be a "free" upgrade to MS Surface Pro ?
> 
> ...



Then you don't need a $500+ tablet! Look at those $400 or less. A Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 for $179 might be perfect. Light, small, inexpensive and will shine at your requirements. Surface Pro is WAY too much money for your needs.


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## ace2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

Doug.Kaya said:


> WHEN is Win. 8.1 gonna be released ?
> 
> And... will it be a "free" upgrade to MS Surface Pro ?
> 
> ...



If you just need email and web surfing go the cheaper route.  If you need to use productivity applications like MS Office then go for Surface Pro.


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## Blues (Aug 20, 2013)

ace2000 said:


> If you just need email and web surfing go the cheaper route.  If you need to use productivity applications like MS Office then go for Surface Pro.



Quite true, and I agree with a Samsung or Nexus in this case.  But it really brings up a question.  If you need to use MS Office or the like, why the heck would you use it on a tablet rather than a smallish laptop?  Maybe it's just me, but I *hate* doing real work on a tablet.  It's so clunky to use a touchscreen for anything at all complex.  I use my Nexus 10 only for email, web browsing, or ebooks.  If I need anything else, I bring my netbook, or if I have a lot of work, my laptop.  I just don't understand what market the Surface Pro is trying to address.

-Bob


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## Cruiser Too (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks, John Chase, Ace-2000 and Blues !

Because of my FAT, CLUNKY, fingers....
I'd wanna go with a 10" model.
Looked at several but they're all 4.0 and 4.1.
The latest bugger is 4.3 and since this is a one-time buy,
I want the latest and greatest.

Know which one comes in 4.3 flavor ???


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## hypnotiq (Aug 20, 2013)

Doug.Kaya said:


> WHEN is Win. 8.1 gonna be released ?
> 
> And... will it be a "free" upgrade to MS Surface Pro ?



Windows 8.1 will be released @ 7am EST on October 17th in the Windows Store.
If you have Windows 8 on your machine, its a free upgrade. 
You simply click on the Store tile and it will be available there.

-Nico


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## Cruiser Too (Aug 20, 2013)

hypnotiq said:


> Windows 8.1 will be released @ 7am EST on October 17th in the Windows Store.
> If you have Windows 8 on your machine, its a free upgrade.
> You simply click on the Store tile and it will be available there.-Nico



Thanks Nico !

My friend has Win 8.0 on his desktop.
Will share the news with him.


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## timeos2 (Aug 20, 2013)

Doug.Kaya said:


> Know which one comes in 4.3 flavor ???



From TECH2:

*Android 4.3 is coming soon to these smartphones and tablets *



*Nexus*
It goes without saying that any device  bearing the Nexus moniker is sure to get updated to the latest version  of Android. If you haven’t already updated, every Nexus device going as  far back as the Samsung-made Galaxy Nexus has already gotten it, so be  sure to check for the update in your device’s About Phone/Tablet menu.  Check out the complete list: 

Galaxy Nexus
Nexus 4
Nexus 7
Nexus 10
The Nexus 10 is the only one I see listed specifically right now.


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## Cruiser Too (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks John!

I'll check out the Nexus 10.

Doug



timeos2 said:


> From TECH2:
> 
> *Android 4.3 is coming soon to these smartphones and tablets *
> 
> ...


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## Blues (Aug 20, 2013)

Just did a system update on my Nexus 10.  It updated me from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2.  No mention of 4.3 yet.

-Bob

ETA - Oops.  Once I updated to 4.2.2, it seems to now offer 4.3.  Stand by...

ETA2 - Yep, I'm now on 4.3.  Thanks John.


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