# ROFR for Marriott Points



## SunandFun83 (Mar 13, 2015)

Has anyone submitted a contract to buy or sell Marriott Destination Points that was taken by Marriott with ROFR?

Lots of talk here about points selling close to $4 plus costs.  Marriott raised to "Enrollment Fee" to $3,000 minimum and $2 per point  total.

Is the ability of Marriott to take such a high fee on transfer enough that they do not exercise ROFR?

Thanks Y'all


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## redwingfan (Mar 13, 2015)

*ROFR Marriott Destination Club*

I have had several bought back by Marriott..


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## skyequeen (Mar 13, 2015)

*Two ROFR Were Exercised*

Last year we tried twice over a couple of months with a realtor to buy 2500 points.  Marriott exercised ROFR on both.  I was surprised as I thought they would like collecting their high fees.  Since we are over 15000 already, we decided it was a message from a higher power.  We don't need anymore.  Marriott apparently agrees.  The new tiers they are introducing MIGHT entice some with fewer points to try to move up a tier with a purchase.  We never will now.


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## GregT (Mar 13, 2015)

skyequeen said:


> Last year we tried twice over a couple of months with a realtor to buy 2500 points.  Marriott exercised ROFR on both.  I was surprised as I thought they would like collecting their high fees.  Since we are over 15000 already, we decided it was a message from a higher power.  We don't need anymore.  Marriott apparently agrees.  The new tiers they are introducing MIGHT entice some with fewer points to try to move up a tier with a purchase.  We never will now.



What price did you offer that was ROFR'd?  Thx


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## skyequeen (Mar 13, 2015)

First time was 2000 points for $7000 plus all the fees.  Second time I think we may have upped it to 2500 and $4 per point.   But I can't remember.  I put it in your ROFR database, though.  I was working with Seth Nock.  He had expected it to go through and was quite shocked when it didn't.


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## SunandFun83 (Mar 13, 2015)

*Thanks for your help*

Good to know the threshold for buyback of points.  There is a thread here about weeks ROFR.  That ends up being around 23% to 25%.

Based on your comments, I actually INCREASED my price to $4 to get past ROFR.  I will report back if I pass or don't.

I like saintsfanfl idea in the thread "How to beat ROFR"  Deception and fraud will work.  Write the contract at $7 a point and get a kickback.  saitsfanfl was actually deriding anyone who would do that.  I ask "why is ethics and honor required in timeshare sales?"  I find it very rare at the developer side!


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## BocaBoy (Mar 14, 2015)

SunandFun83 said:


> I like saintsfanfl idea in the thread "How to beat ROFR"  Deception and fraud will work.  Write the contract at $7 a point and get a kickback.  saitsfanfl was actually deriding anyone who would do that.  I ask "why is ethics and honor required in timeshare sales?"  I find it very rare at the developer side!



Very classy!  At least Marriott doesn't write a fraudulent contract.


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## SunandFun83 (Mar 15, 2015)

*If it is not fraud, then what?*

sorry,

Sarcasism does not work in print.

If the contract allows Marriott to periodically raise the price to enroll resale trust points to any level they want, then the original sale is taking advantage of the buyer.  What value will points have if the cost to resell is raised?

Look forward to the trust document experts opinion on the price hike.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 15, 2015)

SunandFun83 said:


> Post above pointed out the effect of the big increase in transfer fee to $3,000 minimum and $2 a point is to push prices down.  If an owner bought 1,000 points to enroll their weeks, the points are now worth substantially less in the secondary market.  Does the "Not Fraudulent" Marriott contract allow them to raise the transfer fee on points to $5,000 minimum and $3 a point?, Maybe $8,000 minimum and $4 a point to enroll Trust Point resale with drive the price down close to zero.
> 
> I see the increase in the transfer cost as a "Taking" or confiscation of value from all owners on trust points.  I am surprised that I have not seen a class action suit on this price gouging.
> 
> ...



The Exchange Procedures do have verbiage allowing MVW to change the fee at any time. Or perhaps even waive the fee.

I agree though that increasing the fee or having such an exorbitant fee to start out with was pretty slimy of Marriott. For me, it puts them on par with many Mexican timeshares. Legal? Yes. Is it right, no, IMO.


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## SunandFun83 (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for letting me know ROFR activity is a problem now.  I think TUG is a great place to share Marriott TS experience and knowledge.

Didn't mean to offend anyone with my rant.  Hope you realize I said I increased my price in a legitimate contract to buy points.  In this case ROFR , or the risk, forced me to pay a little more to the seller.

No intention to actually write a phony contract at $7 a point, just sarcasm.  

The seller I found has family health problems.  Marriott did her a favor by taking her 2br platinum Ocean Pointe, OF view for just $6,200.  They would not agree to pay anything at all for her 2,000 points.


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## suenmike32 (Mar 17, 2015)

SunandFun83 said:


> ... The seller I found has family health problems.  Marriott did her a favor by taking her 2br platinum Ocean Pointe, OF view for just $6,200.  They would not agree to pay anything at all for her 2,000 points.



Wow...the seller must be sooooo appreciative for Marriott's goodwill. 
Geewiz, only a few years ago...that unit, (before DC) probably sold for $40K+.

Great to know there's still a Santa Claus.
Mike


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## l0410z (Mar 18, 2015)

Round numbers to simplify math.   Marriott gets 12.00 per point.  SG&A (overhead) to sell timeshares is say 60%.  This puts the real value of a point at 4.8 when you walk out the door.    Marriott will exercise ROFR at less than that level because so they can put it back in the pool to resale and keep margins up.  

They have too many points to sell so it they give you more than 4.8 they can't put it back in the pool and keep margins the same as new.  If they offer you 4.8 they are re confirming the value.   Better to put it all on your shoulders.  Get less than 4.8, RORF.  More than 4.8, do no work and get free margin of 2 per point.  

If you are a shareholder move to the front and smile for the camera. If you have to sell for any reason....go to the back of the group for the picture.  

Before anyone goes there, this is a comment on Marriott, not the program.... that is an individual decision.


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## Quilter (Mar 18, 2015)

l0410z said:


> More than 4.8, do no work and get free margin of 2 per point.




I think I followed this comment until "do no work and get free margin of 2 per point"

Can someone explain?

Thanks


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## GregT (Mar 18, 2015)

l0410z said:


> Round numbers to simplify math.   Marriott gets 12.00 per point.  SG&A (overhead) to sell timeshares is say 60%.  This puts the real value of a point at 4.8 when you walk out the door.    Marriott will exercise ROFR at less than that level because so they can put it back in the pool to resale and keep margins up.
> 
> They have too many points to sell so it they give you more than 4.8 they can't put it back in the pool and keep margins the same as new.  If they offer you 4.8 they are re confirming the value.   Better to put it all on your shoulders.  Get less than 4.8, RORF.  More than 4.8, do no work and get free margin of 2 per point.
> 
> ...



L,

I have slightly different math than you.

I agree that they sell a point for $12.00 per point.  But I first factor in the acquisition cost of that point because it cost them something to get that point (either from a ROFR or a project development), and I assume approximately $3.00 per point (25% of the selling price) for what the underlying point cost them when they acquired/developed it.

So the difference of $9 is the gross margin that they generate when they sell a point for $12, that costs them $3 to acquire.   That gross margin must cover all of the operating costs/overhead that you have correctly pointed out, which is perhaps $7 per point.

The remaining $2 per point is their net profit from running this business, which they can use to pay dividends to their shareholders, or to reinvest in the business in hopes of bigger profits in the future.

So for me, I think the key is the cost of the point of $3.00 per point (and also looking for ways to lower their operating costs of $7/point).  If they ROFR a point at $4/point, they are eating into their net profit.  If they ROFR a point at less than $3/point, they are adding to their net profit.

I welcome other comments -- and acknowledge this is very simplistic.

Best,

Greg

Edited: this is also why I think the ROFR-metric of 23% works, because if they ROFR weeks about that metric, then they are eating into their gross margin.  A point is a point to them, and if they ROFR 2 Shadow Ridge weeks or 1 MOC week, they don't care.   This is also why I think they are being more careful in giving out tour incentives -- it's a marketing cost -- that goes into the $7/point operating costs....


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## Fasttr (Mar 19, 2015)

Quilter said:


> I think I followed this comment until "do no work and get free margin of 2 per point"
> 
> Can someone explain?
> 
> Thanks



I believe they were saying if MVC does not trigger ROFR on a points purchase, MVC still enjoys the $2/point junk fees for basically doing nothing.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Mar 19, 2015)

If one is already a DC points (resale) owner and seeks to purchase more DC points on the outside market, will they need to pay the education/junk fees again?


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## Fasttr (Mar 19, 2015)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> If one is already a DC points (resale) owner and seeks to purchase more DC points on the outside market, will they need to pay the education/junk fees again?



I believe the consensus is.... Initiation Fee Yes...Education fee No.  Unfortunately, the Initiation Fee is the biggie.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Mar 19, 2015)

GregT said:


> L,
> 
> I have slightly different math than you.
> 
> ...



You missed a point on the calculation. That extra $2 a point fee (for transferring the points) goes straight to the bottom line. No overhead. (The overhead is covered by still more fees.) That would raise the breakeven point from $3 in your calculations to $5. Which seems to explain the higher ROFR being seen.


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## GregT (Mar 19, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> You missed a point on the calculation. That extra $2 a point fee (for transferring the points) goes straight to the bottom line. No overhead. (The overhead is covered by still more fees.) That would raise the breakeven point from $3 in your calculations to $5. Which seems to explain the higher ROFR being seen.



I definitely agree that the extra $2 per point fee is additional revenue without a direct cost -- a great revenue stream for them, that may become meaningful as we see more and more resale contracts.

But I believe that the numbers I put out are still the ones to focus as as I do not believe that the junk fees for them are significant enough to move the needle, as compared to $160M in points sold every quarter.

Let's pretend that there are 1,000 point resale contracts every quarter that pass (and I think the real number is much lower) with an average junk fee of $3,000 -- that's still only $3M in fees versus $160M in points sold for that quarter.

I believe the entire key to VAC's financial health are two numbers:

Revenues from Points Sold... $648M in 2014 (and $672M in 2013)
Cost of Points Sold..........$197M in 2014 (and $214M in 2014)

Gross margin........69.5% in 2014 (and 68% in 2014).

I believe the key to durable value is continuing to increase gross margin (and keep revenues stable/growing).  

Ralph makes the excellent point that increasing revenues that do not have a corresponding increase in cost of points sold will improve the margin, but driving down the acquisition cost of the points sold will have a more pronounced impact, in my opinion.

We will see -- will be interesting to track.

Best,

Greg


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## l0410z (Mar 19, 2015)

Quilter said:


> I think I followed this comment until "do no work and get free margin of 2 per point"
> 
> Can someone explain?
> 
> Thanks



What I meant by this is on every resale that is above the ROFR price, Marriott charges a fee.  The Min is 3000 for 1500 points.  I was using this example.  You sell you own points doing all this work.  You are successful and Marriott has their hands out for doing nothing. They get $2 per point (or $500 for 250 points) for no other reason than they can.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 19, 2015)

GregT said:


> I believe the entire key to VAC's financial health are two numbers:
> 
> Revenues from Points Sold... $648M in 2014 (and $672M in 2013)
> Cost of Points Sold..........$197M in 2014 (and $214M in 2014)
> ...



Thanks for these numbers


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## l0410z (Mar 19, 2015)

GregT said:


> L,
> 
> I have slightly different math than you.
> 
> .



The numbers/math  can differ but the concepts are the same.  The value of your units drops a large percent the day the waiting period is over.   That number is most likely the ROFR or close to it.   Marriott gets a fee that they provide no real value or cost that hasn't been captured before.  

Many associate VAC stock price as an indicator of success of the DC point program.  It very well may be.  If Marriott broke out their revenue and margins  by  sales, resales fees, membership fees, and property management it would be paint an interesting picture. 

The best product in the world is still the multiple premium week legacy owner who opted in or can opt in to the DC program... IMHO and I am sad to say I am not one of them with only one week.


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## SunandFun83 (Apr 6, 2015)

*My Purchased FAILED ROFR at $4 a point*

I got the email today that Marriott is taking the 2,000 points at $4 with ROFR.

All the math and conjecture is interesting.  I think they are having a lot of success selling points and they need more inventory.  The new construction projects do not provide enough points to sell for 2015 1nd 2016.

Oh well,  back to redweek.com to try again.


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## mjm1 (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks for update. Yes, try again. This has been a very interesting thread to follow, and very educational as well.

Good luck with your next attempt.

Mike


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## puckmanfl (Apr 8, 2015)

good morning


Sun and Fun...

Why are you worrying about purchasing resale points...These points will have MF of $0.475/pt.  There is a flooded market on VPE where they rent ofr about $0.50/pt without upfront cost, junk fees etc...  Most of these are Legacy points where the true cost basis is proably $0.30-$0.40 pt.  I am willing to bet you could negotiate $0.45.  Looks like many of those adds have had minimal activity


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## taterhed (Apr 8, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning
> 
> 
> Sun and Fun...
> ...



And back to my point...

Why won't Marriott let us (as post 2010 weeks owners) have a points account, allow us to convert to points (annually) and have a minimum balance account to facilitate trading/adding of points.  

I'd love to have points, I'd love to convert a week occasionally and I'd love to have an account to facilitate the renting of unused points.

But no, with the 500 minimum, no points conversion/enrollment and $2 enrollment fees.....  No points for me. 

Come on Marriott. Include the weeks owners.  Allow a 'fee waived' points account for post 2010 owners or conversion rights.

Jm2c


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## Cmore (Apr 8, 2015)

taterhed said:


> And back to my point...
> 
> Why won't Marriott let us (as post 2010 weeks owners) have a points account, allow us to convert to points (annually) and have a minimum balance account to facilitate trading/adding of points.
> 
> ...



One has to admit that MVW is doing fine selling points and many weeks based owners, myself included, really like the added flexibility.  I haven't deposited a week in at least 3 years, and have exclusively used points to my advantage since that time and not sure when or if I will ever deposit/use a "week" again.

That said, I don't see how or why they would offer a free entry into points for post 2010 owners.  They didn't offer a free or "fee waived" entry to the pre-2010 owners, so they would have a very large disgruntled owners group if they went that way.  I do think they may offer an enrollment offer for post 2010 weeks at some point, other than just the matching points program they do for marriott resales currently.    Can't say when or how, but I think one can safely assume that whenever the programs they currently offer quit working at the rate they want them to, they will adapt and figure out how to keep the cash machine working.


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## puckmanfl (Apr 8, 2015)

good afternoon...

Let me take MVCD's side on the post  6/2010 issue...

Talk about a mass of disgruntled customers... How do you think every new point purchaser since 6/2010 (that paid over $9/pt) would feel if suddenly, every resale purchaser (that was warned about no DC eligibilty) would now be eligible.  These resale owners would be getting points for $2-$3 point..

How would every "bundle" purchaser feel, when they were told purchasing the "bundle" was the only way to get DC enrolment...

Look atthis form another angle...
 Why does MVCD need post 6/2010 weeks???

They have plenty of inventory!!!
They knew about this for a few years before 2010 and there is no question they held "weeks" at the "sold out resorts"
They have first dibs on II inventory anyway
Many owners still redeem for MR points
They can ROFR at will

just sayin'


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## taterhed (Apr 8, 2015)

Well, before the fires of hell rain down upon me, what I meant to say was: I wish they'd let us have a free *points *Account so that we could rent points or purchase points and deposit them in smaller blocks...and....the right to enroll.   Yes, I would expect to pay for that. Not expecting $2 points.

Outright purchase is $7+ - $12 per point:  why can't legacy (or maybe multi-week legacy?) owners maybe buy without the $2 per point fee and 500 minimum?
Minimum purchase price (resale) is now almost $7 (if I read the last $4 ROFR right) with 500 points required and MF's above rental rates.
Keeping post 2010 owners isolated from MVC deposit/conversion insures the potential inequity of legacy/points ressies in the same system.

If legacy owners could have free points accounts, just the account--no free points, imagine the increase in points rentals--which would increase the price to rent, which would increase the value of points and encourage new owners to purchase at the higher prices etc..... IMHO

If the same-said legacy owners could convert or annually deposit--for a fair fee--I think this would encourage ownership of legacy weeks (maybe something Marriott doesn't want) and increase property values.  Especially on the lower demand properties with higher MF's.

Again, I'm not trying to start a riot--I understand the need to feed both sides of this fire--but I would like the flexibility to pad my reservation on either end with extra days. And, I'd like to do this without buying SVN or HGVC.  I think the new ownership levels is going to cause real problems with weeks reservations vs part-week reservations.

The only rewards I currently see for legacy owners are the increase in ROFR and buy-back offers (with a fat built-in MVC margin).

Just dreaming.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 8, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Well, before the fires of hell rain down upon me, what I meant to say was: I wish they'd let us have a free *points *Account so that we could rent points or purchase points and deposit them in smaller blocks...and....the right to enroll.   Yes, I would expect to pay for that. Not expecting $2 points.
> 
> Outright purchase is $7+ - $12 per point:  why can't legacy (or maybe multi-week legacy?) owners maybe buy without the $2 per point fee and 500 minimum?
> Minimum purchase price (resale) is now almost $7 (if I read the last $4 ROFR right) with 500 points required and MF's above rental rates.
> ...



I am not sure that an empty DC account is something that they would want. This would give anyone with free access to rentable DC points. That would gut their DC points sales. Why buy when you can easily rent for pretty much all the same benefits?

Marriott makes most of their profits off of points sales. Without points sales, they really don't have a viable business model.

You seem to want to have the flexibility of points without the big buying cost. There are a lot of people that would like that. Though one that doesn't is Marriott. That big buyin cost is what makes them money. 

I don't think we will ever see a simple enrollment option for post 6/20/2010 resale weeks. Any option that may be introduced down the road will likely require the purchase of expensive DC points to re-qualify post 6/20/2010 resales.

Even at that, Marriott really doesn't need the inventory for DC. They are always buying back and ROFRing intervals and conveying them to the trust. They have access to intervals through other means to feed the inventory demands. The only time they would consider instituting some type of program to allow post 6/20/2014 resales to enroll or otherwise get in to the program is if they needed to somehow boost lagging DC point sales. Something that doesn't look to start happening any time soon.


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## taterhed (Apr 9, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure that an empty DC account is something that they would want. This would give anyone with free access to rentable DC points. That would gut their DC points sales. Why buy when you can easily rent for pretty much all the same benefits?
> 
> Marriott makes most of their profits off of points sales. Without points sales, they really don't have a viable business model.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply:  not sure why I even started the comment; just dreaming.   
Your comment on qualifying pre-2010 with points purchase is the essence of what I'm saying:  A way to tie the pre/post 2010 and/or legacy/points community together would be nice.     I would actually consider a points purchase (discounted) to requalify a resale week.  We almost bought MAW/points from Marriott this way--just too much initial investment.

I'll let this die.  I'm happy with my decision to buy legacy and will probably buy HGVC or SVN resale to fill my need for short stay reservations.    I hope that we get some more visibility into the blending of the Marriott points/weeks system.  Maybe the lawsuit will shed some light.

cheers.


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## SunandFun83 (Jun 17, 2015)

*ROFR Strikes Again*

Puck,

I am buying 3,500 points to reach the Executive Level.  I signed a second contract, and, once again Marriott exercised ROFR>

The contract price was $4.70 a point for 3,500 points.  The ROFR totally shocked me.  I was sure the cutt-off was closer to $4.50.

Another very sad case.  Nice man with a sick wife.  They have not been able to use the points or a Hawaii week for two years.  Marriott was "So Kind" as to take the Hawaii week for 25% of retail.  Marriott refused to make any bid on the points.  I think the unethical part is not making a regular bid: "If you have to get out of your points, family is sick, Mom & Dad die, then we will pay $4"

There is room to be good to members and still make a profit.  Marriott is not behaving ethically in point buy backs.


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## SeaDoc (Jun 17, 2015)

Points are selling for 12.48 today and going up tomorrow - so no wonder MVCI is exercising at 4.50 - likely anything under 6 is more the cut-off...



SunandFun83 said:


> Puck,
> 
> I am buying 3,500 points to reach the Executive Level.  I signed a second contract, and, once again Marriott exercised ROFR>
> 
> ...


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## SueDonJ (Jun 17, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> Points are selling for 12.48 today and going up tomorrow - so no wonder MVCI is exercising at 4.50 - likely anything under 6 is more the cut-off...



I've been watching since Dioxide posted here about an upcoming increase.

Has the Pricing Information page format changed?  Did it previously have a column with the total price, which made it easy to figure the per-Point price?  I have no chance doing the math if they're only giving the downpayment and monthly payment amounts for financed purchases!


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## Fasttr (Jun 17, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I've been watching since Dioxide posted here about an upcoming increase.
> 
> Has the Pricing Information page format changed?  Did it previously have a column with the total price, which made it easy to figure the per-Point price?  I have no chance doing the math if they're only giving the downpayment and monthly payment amounts for financed purchases!



You take the downpayment amount and divide that by 10% to get the total amount....then divide that total number by the point quantity.

Using the first example... $1,872/.10=$18,720
then $18,720/1500 points = $12.48 per point as of today.

We know how you so love the math problems!!!


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## Fasttr (Jun 18, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I've been watching since Dioxide posted here about an upcoming increase.
> 
> Has the Pricing Information page format changed?  Did it previously have a column with the total price, which made it easy to figure the per-Point price?  I have no chance doing the math if they're only giving the downpayment and monthly payment amounts for financed purchases!



Looks like $12.66 per point is the new number as of today.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 18, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> You take the downpayment amount and divide that by 10% to get the total amount....then divide that total number by the point quantity.
> 
> Using the first example... $1,872/.10=$18,720
> then $18,720/1500 points = $12.48 per point as of today.
> ...





Fasttr said:


> Looks like $12.66 per point is the new number as of today.



Thank you.


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## l0410z (Jun 18, 2015)

I am amazed that Marriott can get 12.66 per point.  There has to be a cap to the discretionary spending for vacation.  No matter how important vacation time with the family is, it is still discretionary IMHO.   

There was a slogan  years ago for I believe a clothing store name Sims that went  "an educated consumer is our best customer".   Side note, unrelated, the company expanded in the wrong direction and is no longer in business. 

I know some people buy DC points directly from Marriott fully understanding the implications of doing so.  This is an informed consumer.   I  have to believe that VAC is so successful because in general,  an uninformed consumer is their best customer and that is the majority.   I would need to spend close to $78,000 to get the a similar experience I get today in which I spent $18,000. The time value of that money doesn't come into play with timeshares because they never go up from retail purchase vs purchased used.  I  absolutely valued my timeshare ownership so if I am wrong about the uninformed consumer than I am: 
- very cheap 
- Old because thinking about retirement and having put 1 kid through an MBA and 1 kid through  Law School with minimal loans has me valuing discretionary spending differently (see very cheap).  
-   I value vacation time and travel more than ever.  I see timeshare ownership as a means to a different end than I did years ago (see old). 
- I am in fact the uninformed one because I just don't get it.

It might be a little of  all four but the reason I know is true is number 3.


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## SeaDoc (Jun 18, 2015)

The reason MVWC can get people to purchase is not that they are ill-informed.  Rather, the value I receive from my owning and turning my 17000+ points every year into vacations value out at over $45000 yearly, and yet my maintenance cost is $5000 yearly.  I take full advantage of this program, and those that 'get it', see this as a wonderful 'living vacation annuity'...



l0410z said:


> I am amazed that Marriott can get 12.66 per point.  There has to be a cap to the discretionary spending for vacation.  No matter how important vacation time with the family is, it is still discretionary IMHO.
> 
> There was a slogan  years ago for I believe a clothing store name Sims that went  "an educated consumer is our best customer".   Side note, unrelated, the company expanded in the wrong direction and is no longer in business.
> 
> ...


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## taterhed (Jun 18, 2015)

And based on my sales presentation I don't believe that everyone truly pays for price for their points

from my cell...


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## SeaDoc (Jun 18, 2015)

There likely will never be a time that a week purchased after 2010 will be allowed into the program on its own.  However, I know Marriott is allowing for bundle purchases where you can purchase weeks at the price noted in the Marriott Resale website and you must purchase greater or equal to the number of destination points of the week purchased.  This does bring the cost per point down nearly 50%, and you get a week that has all the benefits as if you paid full price for it before the 2010 changeover.  It does remain the best option for those that want to avail themselves of the new program, which I believe has extraordinary value as compared to the old system using II.




taterhed said:


> And based on my sales presentation I don't believe that everyone truly pays for price for their points
> 
> from my cell...


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## SueDonJ (Jun 18, 2015)

taterhed said:


> And based on my sales presentation I don't believe that everyone truly pays for price for their points
> 
> from my cell...



There's definitely room for some leeway when purchasing direct from MVW based on volume pricing and incentives, so in that way it's correct that not everyone will pay the same amount of money to MVW for the same amount of Points.  But it's important to note that MVW doesn't allow haggling on the basic per-Point price, that it's the volume and incentives (and not negotiation) that may bring the price down.

Of course, none of this applies to the external resale market where any price can be agreed upon by Seller and Buyer, and only the ROFR threshold on a given day will set the bar.


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## Wally3433 (Jun 18, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> The reason MVWC can get people to purchase is not that they are ill-informed.  Rather, the value I receive from my owning and turning my 17000+ points every year into vacations value out at over $45000 yearly, and yet my maintenance cost is $5000 yearly.  I take full advantage of this program, and those that 'get it', see this as a wonderful 'living vacation annuity'...



I like this thread - am learning a lot about the cost basis of points, etc.

SeaDoc, can you walk through how 17,000 points has translated into $45,000 in vacation value for you?  What would that year's vacation look like.

Thanks!


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## SeaDoc (Jun 18, 2015)

I'd be happy to:

3 weeks Maui Ocean Club - OF Studio - $9k
12 nights 2 bedroom Lake Tahoe Ritz Carlton over 4th of July - $28K
10 nights 2 bedroom St. Thomas Ritz Carlton New Years - $17K

That's merely one year - I typically get 1-6 thru 8 times vacation value of my maintenance fees every year.  Prior to this program, I was lucky to get 1-2thru3 times.  I turn everything into points and my return is even better when I take advantage of the 60 day window for 30 percent discount.  Unfortunately, only the Vail Ritz Carlton allows me that discount in  the Ritz Carlton Club properties.  







Wally3433 said:


> I like this thread - am learning a lot about the cost basis of points, etc.
> 
> SeaDoc, can you walk through how 17,000 points has translated into $45,000 in vacation value for you?  What would that year's vacation look like.
> 
> Thanks!


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## taterhed (Jun 18, 2015)

Wow. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## l0410z (Jun 18, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> The reason MVWC can get people to purchase is not that they are ill-informed.  Rather, the value I receive from my owning and turning my 17000+ points every year into vacations value out at over $45000 yearly, and yet my maintenance cost is $5000 yearly.  I take full advantage of this program, and those that 'get it', see this as a wonderful 'living vacation annuity'...


 
 You are a legacy week owner turning them into DC points.  I agree with you if what you are saying you are in a good position to take advantage of DC points.  Just so we are in agreement.  You are informed, you know what you own and how to us it.  

I was referring to someone purchasing DC points.  You did not purchase DC points. I am curious...do you believe you represent the general DC point purchaser or for that fact a general Marriott timeshare owner.


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## SeaDoc (Jun 18, 2015)

Honestly, I'm a CPA and I try to extract the most value with my vacation ownership - I have no doubt that the vast majority don't take the time and effort to do what I do in planning for great vacations.  I also take advantage of last minute cruises within 90 days using Destination Points... As a long standing Tugger, I was not a fan of the new Marriott program; but now, I have totally become one of its greatest fans...  I just want to share that with other Tuggers who are willing to be open to this new program... thanks for listening.



l0410z said:


> You are a legacy week owner turning them into DC points.  I agree with you if what you are saying you are in a good position to take advantage of DC points.  Just so we are in agreement.  You are informed, you know what you own and how to us it.
> 
> I was referring to someone purchasing DC points.  You did not purchase DC points. I am curious...do you believe you represent the general DC point purchaser or for that fact a general Marriott timeshare owner.


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## Wally3433 (Jun 19, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> I'd be happy to:
> 
> 3 weeks Maui Ocean Club - OF Studio - $9k
> 12 nights 2 bedroom Lake Tahoe Ritz Carlton over 4th of July - $28K
> ...



Thanks for sharing.  That averages at about a cost of 2900 points per week - good work!


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## quikitikit (Jun 28, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> I'd be happy to:
> 
> 3 weeks Maui Ocean Club - OF Studio - $9k
> 12 nights 2 bedroom Lake Tahoe Ritz Carlton over 4th of July - $28K
> ...




Thanks for sharing info on how to use your points to get maximum benefits.  2015 was 1st year we used DC points to book 1 week in Maui as new DC owner.  In 2016, our Newport Coast was traded for points + our DC points purchased + points rented from a TUG member gave me enough points to book 2 bedrooms ocean view in Maui.  But seeing how and when you book, it is possible to get more value!  :whoopie:


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