# Royal Resorts - A prediction



## Phydeaux

Here's a prediction, and I very well could be wrong. Time will tell.

The pending all inclusive requirement of non-members will never materialize. It will never even launch.


----------



## svwoude

I hope you are wrong!

I want it to launch, and be a huge failure!
What are they thinking?


----------



## timeos2

svwoude said:


> I hope you are wrong!
> 
> I want it to launch, and be a huge failure!
> What are they thinking?



It would be a failure but that never stopped them before. The last thing they need is yet another reason to lower the trade/rental value that already hovers close to zero.


----------



## mikenk

Phydeaux said:


> Here's a prediction, and I very well could be wrong. Time will tell.
> 
> The pending all inclusive requirement of non-members will never materialize. It will never even launch.



My guess is your prediction will be wrong and they will move ahead. I also predict failure will not depend on owner reaction and TUG opinions but pure dollars and cents (or pesos). 

Here's my reasoning - but pure conjecture in parts. Traditional timeshares have a real problem in todays world - too much competition, dying retail sales, and not enough cash from mandatory maintenance fees to stay profitable for continuous improvement. Companies need more sources for income and this is their plan for doing so.

Really successful and growing resorts have multiple sources of income - not just MF's. While I understand the Mayan resort system is not liked on this forum, the system has many effective sources of income: MF's, golf, direct rentals as a hotel, and of course their infamous retail sales. As owners, we get pretty good trickle down benefits as a result. 

Who knows on the Royal's approach, maybe there will be enough increased revenue that will allow the owners to reinvest in innovation and refurbishment where needed. Certainly if the occupancy drops as a result, then it will be a failure; my guess is they will give it a go for awhile at the selected resorts and see what happens; success will be based on the bottom line - and the owners should benefit if successful.

Mike


----------



## Phydeaux

mikenk said:


> My guess is your prediction will be wrong and they will move ahead. I also predict failure will not depend on owner reaction and TUG opinions but pure dollars and cents (or pesos).
> 
> Here's my reasoning - but pure conjecture in parts. Traditional timeshares have a real problem in todays world - too much competition, dying retail sales, and not enough cash from mandatory maintenance fees to stay profitable for continuous improvement. Companies need more sources for income and this is their plan for doing so.
> 
> Really successful and growing resorts have multiple sources of income - not just MF's. While I understand the Mayan resort system is not liked on this forum, the system has many effective sources of income: MF's, golf, direct rentals as a hotel, and of course their infamous retail sales. As owners, we get pretty good trickle down benefits as a result.
> 
> Who knows on the Royal's approach, maybe there will be enough increased revenue that will allow the owners to reinvest in innovation and refurbishment where needed. Certainly if the occupancy drops as a result, then it will be a failure; my guess is they will give it a go for awhile at the selected resorts and see what happens; success will be based on the bottom line - *and the owners should benefit if successful*.
> 
> Mike



In your opinion, in what ways, specifically?


----------



## mikenk

Phydeaux said:


> In your opinion, in what ways, specifically?



As I understand, current owners are not impacted directly by the AI decision; only exchangers are impacted. If the exchangers keep coming and spending more money through the AI rule, then the resorts will have more money to spend on renovation, better restaurants, and more goodies for owners and exchangers. That would seem to be one potential benefit.

Another could be that the resale prices would go up as the value of ownership would increase as owners will have benefits (no AI) that exchangers don't.

Of course, if the exchanges drop off due to the AI, then all bets are off.

I could be totally off base on my assumptions as I really don't know all the details; it would be fascinating to see the business model for the change.

Mike


----------



## Phydeaux

mikenk said:


> As I understand, *current owners are not impacted directly by the AI decision; only exchangers are impacted*. If the exchangers keep coming and spending *more money through the AI rule, then the resorts will have more money to spend *on renovation, better restaurants, and more goodies for owners and exchangers. That would seem to be one potential benefit.
> 
> Another could be that the *resale prices would go up *as the value of ownership would increase as owners will have benefits (no AI) that exchangers don't.
> 
> Of course, if the exchanges drop off due to the AI, then all bets are off.
> 
> I could be totally off base on my assumptions as I really don't know all the details; it would be fascinating to see the business model for the change.
> 
> Mike



With due respect, I disagree with most all of your points. 

First, it is the members that are indeed affected the most by this AI change. If you've seen any of the numerous posts from members on this site, the Royal Resorts own members forum, or Trip Advisor, you'll see there is a clear consensus: WE ARE NOT HAPPY about our resort adopting the AI. It changes the entire founding principle, family oriented environment, clientele, and format. Yes, we are impacted in a very direct and negative fashion.

Second, of the near countless ways the Royals could have increased revenues or decreased its expenses (I’ve provided dozens of suggestions to management and only 1 was adopted), implementing an AI program for non-members would probably come in dead last. Why, when so very many options were available?

Last, most of us members feel resale AND exchanging will now be much more difficult. Countless non-members (casual renters & exchangers) are even against the AI principle. Exchanging power is going to go down. Way down, not up. Same with resale.


----------



## mikenk

Phydeaux said:


> With due respect, I disagree with most all of your points.
> 
> First, it is the members that are indeed affected the most by this AI change. If you've seen any of the numerous posts from members on this site, the Royal Resorts own members forum, or Trip Advisor, you'll see there is a clear consensus: WE ARE NOT HAPPY about our resort adopting the AI. It changes the entire founding principle, family oriented environment, clientele, and format. Yes, we are impacted in a very direct and negative fashion.
> 
> Second, of the near countless ways the Royals could have increased revenues or decreased its expenses (I’ve provided dozens of suggestions to management and only 1 was adopted), implementing an AI program for non-members would probably come in dead last. Why, when so very many options were available?
> 
> Last, most of us members feel resale AND exchanging will now be much more difficult. Countless non-members (casual renters & exchangers) are even against the AI principle. Exchanging power is going to go down. Way down, not up. Same with resale.



Actually I agree with all your points; that is the way I would feel also if I owned. I was trying to look at it from the owners perspective as a potential way to make money. They must be betting that exchanging power will not go down and that there are plenty of people who actually want AI. One of my sons only does AI resorts; maybe to spite me since i tell him it is too costly, particularly since they don't drink alcoholic beverages.

If in fact there are enough exchangers who will do the AI, then the resort will be happy if their only goal is extra money. Time will tell.

BTW, I also believe it will backfire on them as they are risking their current good name in the marketplace and the ownership good will.

Mike


----------



## maciec

As an exchanger we won't be going back to the Royals if the AI is fully implemented.  I have a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids under 12).  My husband and I don't drink.  Our family isn't full of big eaters either.  We don't want to leave the beach or pool to get dressed and go and eat.  We spent a total of $150 a day on food outside of the market.  My little ones don't even eat $10 worth of food when we eat out so how on earth would that be beneficial to us?  It's not.  I hope it fails so we can come back.  Whats the point of having the Markets and the full kitchens if we are forced to do AI?  I think you will find a lot of families like ours that feel the same way.


----------



## tikicarver1

Sorry but you are wrong, it has already happened at the Royal Sands and The Hacienda.

I was searching for an exchange on II for Oct timeframe.
I found a week at the Sands in Oct and then I clicked on "exchange" to see what i would get.  Even though the main title of the resort does not say all inclusive or II does not list it as all inclusive, it you read down in the section that says, "other facilities"  is says  "ALL INCLUSIVE FEE REQUIRED"

I checked dates in Sept too and it says the same thing for both the Sands and the Hacienda. So looks like they are already doing it, even though the memo they sent to owners says it would not start til week 43.
(see other thread for the link to the owners message)


----------



## pjrose

Today our concierge put this spin on it......
"most of the calls to ISCO ask for all inclusive, and when we say no, they say goodbye and go elsewhere.  $150/day will keep the rentals to only those who can afford it so we will have a higher class of people and not a bunch of drunks". 

He also said kids half price, kids under xx free.  They have a few plans for more restaurant space: lobby bar in RC, grill area on sundeck that they use only for the welcome party, possibly a few outside places that u could do once a week.....

For owners, less $ and can do for fewer days (or 1).  And they hope those who do not want AI will buy a villa.  

I am with the I hope it flops, and never comes to the tris group.  

Time will tell.


----------



## Phydeaux

pjrose said:


> $150/day will keep the rentals to only those who can afford it so we will have a higher class of people and not a bunch of drunks".



The concierge has very simple, but flawed logic. The reverse is already *proven* to be the norm with AI’s. Not opinion, but fact. It’s very simple – people have the mindset,  ‘I paid for it, and I want to get my money’s worth’, and they proceed to do just that.


----------



## blackjack

*AI*

I just pulled this to see what II says when making an exchange.

"MANDATORY ALL-INCLUSIVE/MEAL PLAN FEES. Fees are payable to the resort and subject to change without notice. Effective with bookings from JULY 3, 2012 for check-in OCTOBER 27, 2012 and beyond, "REFINE" All-Inclusive Package: Rate per adult, per day USD 105; child 4-17 years, USD 75; child under 4 years, no charge."

Seems like a more resonable 105 a day.  

I hope it flops.  I love this resort and even though I haven't been back for a few years exploring other parts of the world.  I want to exchange back here more often.  I don't like AI.  I end up eating and drinking way more then I should.  haha

Jack


----------



## tikicarver1

Funny that it says " effective with bookings from July 3 for Oct 27 and beyond"

I looked on II and selected "exchange" for a week of Oct 13, the confirmation page says
"AI fee required"
I tried a week in Sept and Oct , it did not matter the same phrase was there.

Beware, i think if you book today for any time frame, they are going to charge you because it will be on your paperwork that AI is required.

Blackjack,
   where did you see the above statement on the II website, can't find it.


----------



## pjrose

Phydeaux said:


> The concierge has very simple, but flawed logic. The reverse is already *proven* to be the norm with AI’s. Not opinion, but fact. It’s very simple – people have the mindset,  ‘I paid for it, and I want to get my money’s worth’, and they proceed to do just that.



I agree phydeaux.

And as to the AI thing showing on ii for sept, there won't be a program in effect, so I doubt it'll be a problem.  Ii will likely fix that....

I hope the 105 is not a typo....take a screen snapshot of it ASAP just in case they change it.....

Owners who are clueless ( ie not tuggers LOL) may hesitate to exchange bc they may see that and not realize they are exempt.


----------



## Carolyn

tikicarver said:


> Sorry but you are wrong, it has already happened at the Royal Sands and The Hacienda.
> 
> I was searching for an exchange on II for Oct timeframe.
> I found a week at the Sands in Oct and then I clicked on "exchange" to see what i would get.  Even though the main title of the resort does not say all inclusive or II does not list it as all inclusive, it you read down in the section that says, "other facilities"  is says  "ALL INCLUSIVE FEE REQUIRED"
> 
> I checked dates in Sept too and it says the same thing for both the Sands and the Hacienda. So looks like they are already doing it, even though the memo they sent to owners says it would not start til week 43.
> (see other thread for the link to the owners message)



Can they enforce this if someone has exchanged into The Royal Sands and Royal Hacienda prior to this NEW requirement, but won't travel until 2013?


----------



## buceo

Not only do I think it will launch I think it will work.
1. Royals know their rental pool and have decided they have the AI customers.
2. Royals know their II trades and want more money from them or they not come at all.
(Threatening to no longer trade in is like threatening to sell your unit, no teeth.)
3. They see this helping developer sales because it is a reason to own.
4. Time will tell if the family atmosphere changes enough that it is less desirable for families. They apparently think not.
5. Time will tell if they have the infrastructure to provide what they are selling. They apparently think so.
#4 & 5 are what I have the most doubts about.


----------



## pjrose

Carolyn said:


> Can they enforce this if someone has exchanged into The Royal Sands and Royal Hacienda prior to this NEW requirement, but won't travel until 2013?



No.  It will not affect existing reservations.

Look up through this thread, I posted a lot of the answers to frequently asked questions, from the royals site.   If you already have your II confirmation in your email print it, and print the info from the royal resorts site (I posted the link up a bit) and bring those printouts with you.


----------



## Larry

Phydeaux said:


> Here's a prediction, and I very well could be wrong. Time will tell.
> 
> The pending all inclusive requirement of non-members will never materialize. It will never even launch.



Funny but I just received this email today:


• Luxury for a New Era • 
All-Inclusive Royal Relaxation 

As of July 3, you can book an all-inclusive vacation at The Royal Sands® in Cancun or The Royal Haciendas® in Playa del Carmen at the heart of the Riviera Maya for travel dates starting October 27, 2012. 

More info

Stay in a luxury suite or room with plenty of space to relax with family and friends and enjoy the benefits of a REFINE All-Inclusive package, creature comforts carefully chosen to enrich your vacation experience. There's something for everyone:
•Delicious dining options
•Daily activities
•Sports and entertainment
•Access to the fitness center
•Supervised Kids Club from 9 am - 6 pm daily

 All in a five-star resort on one of the finest beaches in the Mexican Caribbean. 

At Royal Resorts we understand families. And because we realize that each one has different vacation needs and desires we created the REFINE Package Collection to enable our guests to customize their vacation. Our All-Inclusive Resort Packages can be combined with REFINE Special Packages, an exclusive selection of experiences and activities designed to enhance any trip (coming soon). 







Call now!







Toll free 888-840-1105 • 954-736-5839






Bookings accepted for all-inclusive vacations at The Royal Sands® or The Royal Haciendas® for travel dates from October 27, 2012.


----------



## tikicarver1

I asked that very question to a II rep today. 
They said what you just said, if it is not in the reservation, then they can't charge you.

The problem is, even though the Royals say it will not start until Oct27,
it is in the confirmation page on the II web site for weeks in Sept and Oct.
So you will not have a leg to stand on when you show up to the resort in Sept and it says on your paperwork "AI fee required".

I know someone above said the program will not be effect in Sept, but I am not willing to take the chance on showing up with 3 adults and then they say I have to pay $300/ day for food i don't want. 

To the post above that says "it will work"

Are you serious? $100/day might be ok if you were traveling alone, but think of a family of 3 or 4, you think they are going to spend $2000/ week for food?


----------



## gcole

Launched today:
http://royalreservations.com/emb/al...p?hq_e=el&hq_m=1811544&hq_l=4&hq_v=0017040020


----------



## maciec

> Are you serious? $100/day might be ok if you were traveling alone, but think of a family of 3 or 4, you think they are going to spend $2000/ week for food?




And what 4 year old child can eat $75 a day worth of food?????  My week long stay will now cost $2500 just for food for my family of 5.  Thanks but no thanks.  We will exchange somewhere else.


----------



## buceo

> Are you serious and We will exchange somewhere else.



Yes and I think it is working already.  My opinion groups/families that trade in & don't spend much are part of what's driving this.  Sure there are traders that spend, but my guess is their spreadsheets of what customer source spends what tells them this is the way to go.  
Too early to discuss costs, we just don't know "kids eat free" etc...


----------



## Phydeaux

Phydeaux said:


> Here's a prediction, and I very well could be wrong. Time will tell.
> 
> The pending all inclusive requirement of non-members will never materialize. It will never even launch.



I was wrong. Not the first time, I was wrong once before  

Now, let's see if it brings about the results the RR was looking to achieve. As a invested member, I, as a voice of one, can tell you I am extremely disappointed. Never again will a salesperson approach me, or likely anyone else, with prospects in tow and ask for an opinion of membership. Those days are over!


----------



## pjrose

Phydeaux said:


> I was wrong. Not the first time, I was wrong once before
> 
> . . .



You are right, you were wrong once before.
Or are you wrong, you were right once before.


----------



## pianodinosaur

DW and I are at the Royals via an II exchange.  It is very peaceful and friendly here.  I would not like to see this atmosphere polluted by a bunch of drunks intent upon getting their money's worth.


----------



## akbmusic

This would be $2730 for my family of four for the week, just for food. To put things into perspective, we just got back from Grand Cayman Island. We exchanged through SFX into Morritt's. We ate out four times, got smoothies a couple of other times, and donuts for breakfast two mornings. Otherwise, we ate in. To total cost we spent going to the turtle farm, botanical garden, stingray city snorkel trip, eating for the week (out and in), and paying daily timeshare tax and utilities was about $1500. 
Because of that, when making our requests through II for spring break next year, we chose not to add any of the Royal Resorts, even though we requested resorts in Cancun/Playa. We can't afford to spend that much to eat for the week, and didn't want to take the chance that by the time we exchange, we would be stuck paying that much. 
I feel bad for owners - it seems they care more for rental/vacation package travelers than owners or exchangers.


----------



## pjrose

akbmusic said:


> This would be $2730 for my family of four for the week, just for food. To put things into perspective, we just got back from Grand Cayman Island. We exchanged through SFX into Morritt's. We ate out four times, got smoothies a couple of other times, and donuts for breakfast two mornings. Otherwise, we ate in. To total cost we spent going to the turtle farm, botanical garden, stingray city snorkel trip, eating for the week (out and in), and paying daily timeshare tax and utilities was about $1500.
> Because of that, when making our requests through II for spring break next year, we chose not to add any of the Royal Resorts, even though we requested resorts in Cancun/Playa. We can't afford to spend that much to eat for the week, and didn't want to take the chance that by the time we exchange, we would be stuck paying that much.
> I feel bad for owners - it seems they care more for rental/vacation package travelers than owners or exchangers.



Since they have not yet announced a start date for the tri-royals, IF they even do it at the tris, you should be fine.  Those looking on II now for the RS and RH see the notice of the AI, but it doesn't show up for the tris. Thus You are safe in planning an exchange.  Just print everything to prove that AI wasn't part of the deal, in case you need proof.  

And yes, some of us have noticed changes oriented more toward attracting others than toward the members.  But we still feel very much at home here, recognized by long time staff etc.


----------



## buceo

pjrose said:


> ...changes oriented more toward attracting others than toward the members.



I don't feel that is a change.  Ever since buying I've felt it is all about attracting new buyers, retail (which still holds true).  If they make $20,000 on selling a week how many breakfast buffets is that? A big part of that is keeping the owners happy, historically they've been able to stop any owner in the hall and ask in front of a prospective buyer "are you an owner, how do you like it".  Times have changed, they are tougher everywhere especially Mexico.  There's certainly a pyramid to the ugly timeshare industry & it's becoming an inverted pyramid, it's not sustainable.  The Royals are making some business decisions & it's not 2004.  I have no idea if they are right.  As an owner I sure hope so & as I have said I think they are going to pull this off, but they have to get back to the upright pyramid (a whole lot of owners support the traders that come to spend as little as possible & have no intention of buying a unit).


----------



## tikicarver

Sorry I don't understand the logic that they have to charge exchangers a whole lot of money for food to keep the place running. If they had a proper operating budget, the MX fees of owners would cover the operating costs of the resort.
As an owner of a unit in Vegas I pay yearly MX fees and you as an owner at RS pay your fee. So the whole idea of exchanging is that you can come stay in my unit and I can come stay in yours. Each resort should get their costs covered by our MX fee. 
When you come to my unit in Vegas, they don't charge you $1000/ per week,per person for food. They don't have to because the restaurant at my resort actually makes a profit. They do that like any other business, they serve good food for a fair price so people like to go there. If the restaurants at the Royals are losing money , it is probably because they have crappy food and high prices so no one goes there. Forcing non-members who stay there to buy their food at high prices is not the answer. Just like any other business, there are many other choices so people will go elsewhere. 
  IMHO the owners at the RS are getting ripped off. You should look at the resort's yearly budget and see where all the MX fee money is being spent.
I'm sure the labor cost in Vegas is much higher than in Mexico, so if the Vegas resorts can run without having AI and have low MX fees, why can't the RS do it?


----------



## buceo

Well to start they "don't have to" it's a business decision they are making and I'm not saying it will work. Just hoping.
Unfortunately the "whole idea of exchanging" has become I'll buy a cheap trader with low MFs and go stay at a good place & spend very little while I am there.  That just means someone else is footing the bill, so don't expect it to be sustainable, just enjoy it while you can, maybe years maybe not. As mentioned (sorry to repeat) food has very little to do with this. It's all about developer sales (IMHO).  Have you tried to sell a primary home in the U.S?  Try selling a timeshare in MX! Actually it's  not a "crappy food" problem they have drug violence, the "swine flu",  bad US economy, our 24hr news cycle and yes the admin of this board which repeats what a pit MX is while Hawaii is great. Basically they (MX) are desperate and this is what they are trying & so far I think it's going to work. I know first hand these resorts are very well liked, people love to trade into them.  They rent well above fees, sorry but they are are not Vegas even with all the above mentioned (Vegas is simply cheap because of gambling).


----------



## blackjack

I agree with Tikicarver.  People will just not trade into Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas.  It will not make me want to buy a developer week just to stay there.  There are other options and people will find them.  I think it will backfire and hurt the owners more in the long run since less people will go there and spending money there.  Also, people pay their own maintenance fees and shouldn't have to be "taxed" for making an exchange.  Not all people have lower maintenance fees when making exchange.  Mexico of all places typically have lower maintenance fees due to lower labor costs.  Las Vegas is no longer cheap because of gambling.  In years past, gambling gets people a lot of free rooms but Vegas has become a destination and have great restaurants, hotels,  pools and shows.


----------



## blackjack

Even though I personally don't think it won't work, I certainly do hope it does work out for the owners.  Seems like there are more and more issues at all resorts.  increased MX fees or increased transfer fees.  All things making timeshare ownership more challenging.  So I do hope they figure out the best way to make things work and continue to provide a great vacation experience!


----------



## buceo

blackjack said:


> I agree with Tikicarver.  People will just not trade into Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas.  It will not make me want to buy a developer week just to stay there...


I'd look at it as the same people won't be trading in, which is what they are planning on.  They have to know that. They've also decided there are enough new potential AI customers; renters & traders. Again I can only hope they are right.  There are already discussions of buying a week (like an EOY, lock off even just to avoid the AI).  It doesn't need to be a developer week. I won't like my trading power going down (way down), which is what I see.


----------



## momeason

mikenk said:


> As I understand, current owners are not impacted directly by the AI decision; only exchangers are impacted. If the exchangers keep coming and spending more money through the AI rule, then the resorts will have more money to spend on renovation, better restaurants, and more goodies for owners and exchangers. That would seem to be one potential benefit.
> 
> Another could be that the resale prices would go up as the value of ownership would increase as owners will have benefits (no AI) that exchangers don't.
> 
> Of course, if the exchanges drop off due to the AI, then all bets are off.
> 
> I could be totally off base on my assumptions as I really don't know all the details; it would be fascinating to see the business model for the change.
> 
> Mike



My strong bet is that exchanges will drop off tremendously. I will never book it as an AI and there have been many postings that said the same over the past several months.


----------



## momeason

pjrose said:


> Since they have not yet announced a start date for the tri-royals, IF they even do it at the tris, you should be fine.  Those looking on II now for the RS and RH see the notice of the AI, but it doesn't show up for the tris. Thus You are safe in planning an exchange.  Just print everything to prove that AI wasn't part of the deal, in case you need proof.
> 
> And yes, some of us have noticed changes oriented more toward attracting others than toward the members.  But we still feel very much at home here, recognized by long time staff etc.



Delete..cited wrong post


----------



## mikenk

momeason said:


> My strong bet is that exchanges will drop off tremendously. I will never book it as an AI and there have been many postings that said the same over the past several months.



I'm not so sure. There is a certain percent of vacationers that prefer AI for whatever reason. They certainly will not be a part of this (TUG) community or similar, but they are out there. I have no idea what that percent is or the percent of resorts that offer AI. I would hope the Royals' owners know that. If there are no other resorts in the Cancun strip that offer AI, then they have a whole different market all to their own. It is interesting they are test marketing it in two locations.

I am curious. If a particular unit at the Royals is not being used by the owner or being exchanged into, can the company rent it on their own or will it just go unused? 

Mike


----------



## Phydeaux

mikenk said:


> I'm not so sure. There is a certain percent of vacationers that prefer AI for whatever reason. They certainly will not be a part of this (TUG) community or similar, but they are out there. I have no idea what that percent is or the percent of resorts that offer AI. I would hope the Royals' owners know that. If there are no other resorts in the Cancun strip that offer AI, then they have a whole different market all to their own. It is interesting they are test marketing it in two locations.
> 
> I am curious. *If a particular unit at the Royals is not being used by the owner or being exchanged into, can the company rent it on their own or will it just go unused? *
> 
> Mike



The unit remains vacant. RR really has no idea what purchased villas will be occupied or vacant since we members can simply show up on our assigned check in date, unannounced, and our villa will be there for us. Or, not show up and not rented, and it remains vacant.


----------



## Phydeaux

tikicarver69 said:


> Sorry I don't understand the logic that they have to charge exchangers a whole lot of money for food to keep the place running. If they had a proper operating budget, the MX fees of owners would cover the operating costs of the resort.
> As an owner of a unit in Vegas I pay yearly MX fees and you as an owner at RS pay your fee. So the whole idea of exchanging is that you can come stay in my unit and I can come stay in yours. Each resort should get their costs covered by our MX fee.
> When you come to my unit in Vegas, they don't charge you $1000/ per week,per person for food. They don't have to because the restaurant at my resort actually makes a profit. They do that like any other business, they serve good food for a fair price so people like to go there. If the restaurants at the Royals are losing money , it is probably because they have crappy food and high prices so no one goes there. Forcing non-members who stay there to buy their food at high prices is not the answer. Just like any other business, there are many other choices so people will go elsewhere.
> IMHO the owners at the RS are getting ripped off. You should look at the resort's yearly budget and see where all the MX fee money is being spent.
> I'm sure the labor cost in Vegas is much higher than in Mexico, so if the Vegas resorts can run without having AI and have low MX fees, why can't the RS do it?




*Precisely!!!!*


----------



## mikenk

Phydeaux said:


> The unit remains vacant. RR really has no idea what purchased villas will be occupied or vacant since we members can simply show up on our assigned check in date, unannounced, and our villa will be there for us. Or, not show up and not rented, and it remains vacant.



OK, then I assume that all the resort revenue comes from MF's, restaurant profits, and retail sales. Correct?

I assume they are still selling (trying to sell) units retail, then there must be unit-weeks available for sale at the resorts. Is that correct and roughly what percent have been sold?

If correct, then what happens to an unsold unit for any particular week? 

Pardon me if these are dumb questions; I am just trying to think through their business model for the change.

Mike


----------



## buceo

mikenk said:


> I assume they are still selling (trying to sell) units retail,
> 
> If correct, then what happens to an unsold unit for any particular week?
> 
> Mike


That's it exactly (I can't find a font as big as fidos so I'll just use this), they are still trying to sell new units and my guess is in their business model they have to.  It's what they have always done.
The units they still own they can do whatever they want with (as far as I know), just like we can.  My understanding is though that now when they rent their own units they'll only be with the AI.  Still seems they can do whatever they want, who will know, but that's what they stipulate.


----------



## mikenk

buceo said:


> That's it exactly (I can't find a font as big as fidos so I'll just use this), they are still trying to sell new units and my guess is in their business model they have to.  It's what they have always done.
> The units they still own they can do whatever they want with (as far as I know), just like we can.  My understanding is though that now when they rent their own units they'll only be with the AI.  Still seems they can do whatever they want, who will know, but that's what they stipulate.



Allrighty then;

Assuming they can rent the units they own and assuming there are enough AI renters to rent to (maybe a big assumption here but they should have the data to know), then going to AI would seem to be a good business decision as it will do two things for them:
1: It will give them a huge revenue hit due to the AI income over expenses.
2: It will give them a retail sales message that they don't currently have. "If you buy from us, you will have something exchangers can't get - the option to not use AI."

From a timeshare owner perspective, the only downside would seem to be that the AI renters will be undesirable boozers that will destroy the atmosphere. Maybe, however my son and DIL (5 kids) prefer AI and neither drink; they prefer it for the convenience of their always eating teenagers and they can afford it. Time will tell.

What else am I missing on the downside?

Mike


----------



## buceo

A significant change in atmosphere may or may not materialize. We'll have to see.  No shortage of cheap booze now, stop at Wal Mart, Duty free etc buy some bottles and have at it.  After vacation costs it's not the price that stops the drinking.  Yes "easier" to have somebody pour you one, more conducive, but how much so I'm not so sure.  I'll leave a half full bottle, I don't think, heh I bought it I have to drink it all.  But sure we'll get some of that mentality.

"Downside" the new clientele. Not so sure it will be bad, just different & in relatively low numbers, all stays the same for owned units.

Potential huge downside is they may not do a good job.  It'll be really bad if it's a lousy AI.  The places do seem too small, they say not.

Downside is the drop in trading power.  But likely an increase in rental so as I have always done, just rent out and pay cash to go elsewhere.


----------



## mikenk

buceo said:


> Potential huge downside is they may not do a good job.  It'll be really bad if it's a lousy AI.  The places do seem too small, they say not.
> 
> Downside is the drop in trading power.  But likely an increase in rental so as I have always done, just rent out and pay cash to go elsewhere.



But both downsides would seem to be self correcting from the business side.

If they don't do a good job, then they will either fix it or abandon it. 

If the trading power goes down, then it would seem that they would abandon the idea as it would probably not be working for the resort owners either. It is clearly to the resort owners benefit not to have trading power go down.

Mike


----------



## pjrose

*A few comments..*

In response to the conversation between mike and Buceo.....

Disclaimer...this is all what I've picked up from various staff and other longtimers, not first hand knowledge.

Many if not most of the higher end resorts and hotels in the area are AI.

The MFs cover the operating costs of the resort in terms of villas, staff, etc, but the restaurants are one or more different corporations...their revenue or lack thereof does not affect MFs.  

The royals have unsold units at the RH, TRC, and RS, but also owner resales and defaults that are sold for less.  There aren't a lot of these....but there are some. The owner resales remain the owners' so they are not available for exchange or for mgt use, tho the owner can try to rent or can use their unit while waiting for a sale.  

The units that will have mandatory AI are defaults and unsold units, Those put in the resorts' rental program, and exchanges.  What percent of total villas this is, I don't know. 

Occupancy is not down much...what is down is revenue from ppl not using the restaurants and bars.  The restaurants are often only one quarter full.  I was told (not sure this is true) that the average check out bill at the RM is $100/week.  People cook in, go to Walmart etc, and eat at the many wonderful restaurants in town and the hotel zone.  

Sooo....the supposed logic is that the restaurants will be full, waiters will earn more (tips built in to AI), units will sell to those avoiding AI, and they will attract a better clientele, who can afford the cost.  

To some extent I agree, especially if it is true that most (I was told 80% but surely that is an exaggeration) callers to ISCO want AI.  

It's the atmosphere I worry most about.....drinking, not caring about the place and staff like owners do..even renting for time periods other than sat to sat, which makes it have less of that atmosphere where we see old friends each year, kids grow up w others w the same week, and so forth.  

Repeat...time will tell.


----------



## mikenk

Yikes, ~$100 per stay seems really low and would seem to be a real problem for a resort to stay competitive long term.

I was on the board of directors awhile back for a large country club north of Dallas that had been developed for the country environment that existed then. It had low rates, OK golf course, OK restaurant. The current members loved it but Dallas was expanding northward, the new people expected more and we were not competitive to modern golf clubs being built. Our members were spending next to nothing except for their low dues. We were not going to survive; the numbers were depressing.

We decided to raise the dues, dramatically improve the facilities through a large scary loan, and add a service charge to encourage restaurant use. Many folks were forced out due to the price increases, we (the BOD) were not popular, but over time we now have an established competitive club with no debt and with great facilities and great members. There was some pain, but it was necessary for us to survive.

I am not saying this is the same situation as the Royals, but I firmly believe that a thriving resort today must have more than just MF's to compete.

Mike


----------



## buceo

Last two posts 45/46 great info. thanks...now about the Mayan owners...LOL. Personally if they water down the AI drinks I hope they don't water down mine too or I'll soon be spending $100/wk. Yes that's a threat in case they are reading these.

I'm also thinking when someone deposits a unit with the Royals to rent out for them, they'll charge the AI to non-owners?


----------



## pjrose

buceo said:


> Last two posts 45/46 great info. thanks...now about the Mayan owners...LOL. Personally if they water down the AI drinks I hope they don't water down mine too or I'll soon be spending $100/wk. Yes that's a threat in case they are reading these.
> 
> *I'm also thinking when someone deposits a unit with the Royals to rent out for them, they'll charge the AI to non-owners?*



Yes, that is the plan.....and I don't think that is right bc an owner pd the MF on that week.  Same as an owner who paid MF and deposited with II week.


----------



## Helene4

pjrose said:


> In response to the conversation between mike and Buceo.....
> 
> The MFs cover the operating costs of the resort in terms of villas, staff, etc, but the restaurants are one or more different corporations...their revenue or lack thereof does not affect MFs.
> 
> The restaurants, sales office space (not paying rent) and consessions are profit for managament which are not passed on to owners. Is management having a bit of a greedy fit here?


----------



## momeason

pianodinosaur said:


> DW and I are at the Royals via an II exchange.  It is very peaceful and friendly here.  I would not like to see this atmosphere polluted by a bunch of drunks intent upon getting their money's worth.



I agree, I booked Sept 29-Oct 6 this year because it was on my list and I will not go after it becomes an All inclusive. Praying no hurricanes keep us from going. Did buy insurance for the first time.


----------



## momeason

We travel a lot. We love timeshares because we can eat in. We usually have a zero bill at checkout. We can't afford to spend a lot on overpriced markups. Joy of timesharing... will travel at least 12 weeks this year.


----------



## pjrose

Helene4 said:


> . . .
> 
> The restaurants, sales office space (not paying rent) and consessions are profit for managament which are not passed on to owners. Is management having a bit of a greedy fit here?



Some are, some aren't....I have to look at the operating budget again.  I was just looking at it today, but tired now.  This is the budget that directly impacts maintenance fees.  

It does not include restaurants (which I think might be a loss), but does include activities (probably loss, certainly they don't make money).  Concessions (especially Thomas More) are probably big profit makers and are not part of the operating/MF budget....but they were never part of "our" (members') equation anyway.




momeason said:


> We travel a lot. We love timeshares because we can eat in. We usually have a zero bill at checkout. We can't afford to spend a lot on overpriced markups. Joy of timesharing... will travel at least 12 weeks this year.



With you.  We eat out or get takeout part of the time, but make the most of it....e.g. our take-out rotisserie chicken earlier in the week became fajitas two nights ago and we just finished making a lovely pot of chicken rice soup from the bones and scraps.  I can't imagine ever wanting to do an AI.  As members we won't have to here, and thank goodness.  I don't want to pay for other people's alcohol, and I don't want to gain 10 pounds and feel stuffed all the time.  

I like having the kitchen, even though we don't use it for every meal every day.  And it's so much more relaxing to just eat in our lovely villa or on our lovely terrace!


----------



## maciec

Pricing is out 

http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp

$400 per day for my family of 5.


----------



## pjrose

Thanks for the link.  
Not much of a discount for members, though I wouldn't have done it anyway.  
It'll be interesting (?) to see how the resorts change.  We do need more people in the restaurants...but this seems like overkill.  Ugh.


----------



## radmoo

maciec said:


> Pricing is out
> 
> http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp
> 
> $400 per day for my family of 5.



I just read this link -  IHO it may not be as terrible as some fear.  There are MANY people who prefer to go "stress free", just want to pay in advance rather than pay as you go.  I agree that the price is high and as an owner, I wouldn't chose to participate.  But given the cost, I really don't think we need worry about overly raucous drinkers, etc as the price point is probably beyond their reach.  More likely it would bring folks who want to sign on the dotted line and be done with it!!!  Just my opinion and only time will tell.
We will do our first 2 week RH stint Feb-Mar 2013 and we are excited!!!


----------



## Phydeaux

Judging from the ratio of comments I've read from non-members (exchangers) that oppose the AI requirement vs. those that are willing and happy about it, this maneuver may just keep the exchangers from coming entirely. The restaurants will go from nearly empty every day to _very_ empty year round. The Royal Resorts are trying to be something they are not. How often do we see businesses attempt this and fail? Look around. It happens all the time. 

Here's a different idea: Need to improve the restaurant and bar business? How about providing top notch food and value prices *that are reflective of location*. As someone pointed out earlier, this is _Mexico_, a developing  nation, not Bora Bora or Tahiti. 
The overhead is much lower, the wage scale is much lower, the food costs are lower, the cost of living is much lower. But somehow the Royal Resorts finds it appropriate to charge $26 for a Mexican buffet of tacos and re-fried beans and $16 for a breakfast buffet? WDF?

My guests were charged $17.50 USD for their two cocktails last year after they arrived. They never went back to the bar for their entire week stay. I always BYO because I already knew better. Has anyone noticed the sports desks have been closed down? No, the Royal Resorts need to change alright. *Change management*!!!

Locals: There's a GREAT business opportunity here for you! Prepare meals for just two people for the week and you could charge them $1,450 using their full kitchen and still be under their AI cost of $1,470! That's almost $74,000/year preparing meals for just two people - not a bad salary, in Mexico. Hell, I'd do it if I was retired!!!


----------



## KarenLK

Phydeaux, I am still wondering about those drinks. I asked bartenders at VCI in March, and they said it was not possible unless they ordered top-shelf non-national booze.


----------



## sdbrier

I agree with RADMOO. Time will tell, and I've waited on expressing an opinion. I think they may also be looking for higher end European travelers who enjoy that type of no worry travel.

I think we will pass though. This year our 2 weeks cost only 1100.00 for all meals, groceries and drink. I would, however, use Los Murales a great deal more since it's included. Assuming we ever try it.


----------



## Phydeaux

AI's have the reputation they do for a reason. The reason is very simple - it's "I've paid for it, and I'm going to get my monies worth". 

To believe that the Royal Resorts will somehow be exempt or immune from this reality is unrealistic, imho.


----------



## BoaterMike

It's interesting (to me anyway) that there is not a price posted for people who rent.  They have a member price and an exchanger price (unless I missed it.)  So I assume that they have a bundled price that they can vary based on season, day of the week, etc.   I see this as leading to shorter stays for those renting who prior may rent for a week, but now only rent for 3-4 days.  

My main concern still is not necessarily the change in guest behavior, but the impact on exchanges.  

Mike


----------



## KarenLK

As an owner at VCI, I probably will never be affected, but who knows. 

We are already inundated with internet renters who are only there a few days. They seem to come and go during the week, but some are there on weekends. 

As I am writing this, I am thinking it may come to pass that there *might* be more exchanges into VCI to avoid the Royal AI. 

I don't think VCI could ever accommodate AI as there is only ONE restaurant, and no room to put another one.


----------



## buceo

radmoo said:


> I just read this link -  IHO it may not be as terrible as some fear.  There are MANY people who prefer to go "stress free", just want to pay in advance rather than pay as you go.  I agree that the price is high and as an owner, I wouldn't chose to participate.  But given the cost, I really don't think we need worry about overly raucous drinkers, etc as the price point is probably beyond their reach.  More likely it would bring folks who want to sign on the dotted line and be done with it!!!  Just my opinion and only time will tell.
> We will do our first 2 week RH stint Feb-Mar 2013 and we are excited!!!


I agree, but will add what it's all about is bringing in a whole new customer base (who spend while on vacation) to try and sell units to while getting rid of the "getaways are less than MF" problem.


----------



## pjrose

Phydeaux, I don't like it any more than you do, but I have a few comments to your post.  

The Mexican buffet is much more than tacos and beans, and at $26 with an excellent dance show, tacos made to order, 3-4 hot dishes, salad bar, dessert bar, margaritas, soft drinks, iced tea and coffee, is, IMHO very reasonable.  

The sports desk is open, at least at the RC. 

Prices at pacos and the palapa and even captains cove are good, I couldn't get dinners that good in that atmosphere, with that service, at those prices, stateside.  

The breakfast Buffett is out of hand, as are some other prices, but many are not.

And the posted prices are for exchangers as well as renters (through the royals or orbitz, Expedia, etc).  

I would have preferred that it be an optional program, for those who contact th royals and want it.


----------



## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> The breakfast *Buffett* is out of hand....



I see that you are in a tropical state of mind with thoughts of Jimmy Buffett on this holiday.  :whoopie:


----------



## Webhoncho

*Long time RC owner unhappy with AI*

My wife and I are long-time owners at the Royal Caribbean (pre-construction) and have paid our yearly MF dues each year on time, no problem. We've enjoyed our visits but it's been a number of years since we've flown to Cancun. Mexico also isn't the first tourist destination that comes to mind. So we've deposited and exchanged through II many times; this has been a reasonably effective way to get value out of our Royal Resorts membership.

After receiving today's email on the REFINE package, I believe the new AI plan is poorly thought out and badly executed. It will DEFINITELY hurt the ability of RS and RH owners to exchange their weeks via II.  (I know that if I saw a resort on II that had an AI, it would immediately drop off my list of desirable exchanges.)

I am already not very happy with recent moves of management of the Royal Resorts. If this bad AI plan is implemented at RC and my ability to exchange my week on II is harmed, I plan to consider appropriate action when this occurs...


----------



## donnaval

The AIs we've used typically charge by room capacity rather than number of people - for example, a hotel type room with an occupancy of two would have to pay two AI fees even if only one person used the room.  If a couple wants to move up to a suite or one-bedroom with a capacity of 4, the cost was either x the number of potential guests for the room, or simply a much higher cost for the "upgrade."  We often travel with just two or three in a 2-br - is the Royal management going to be content with collecting "just" two AI daily fees of we snag a 2-br on II?

There are so many AIs in Cancun and the Riviera Maya.  The packagers offer air fare AND AI accommodations for rock-bottom prices.  When, for example, Apple Vacations is offering a deal for $899 that includes R/T airfare (often non-stop on a charter), seven nights in a luxurious resort that was built for AI - and this is not unusual - why would even the most die-hard AI fans choose to pay the Royals' AI fee, plus exchange fee, plus the MFs on the unit they exchange, or even just the typically very high rental fee plus AI plus air?  

As for the restaurants being so far under capacity - I have to say that I have experienced a STEEP decline in the quality of the food and service at the Royals, accompanied by much higher prices, over the past few years.  I was always willing to spend, but I won't spend on poor value and so I have patronized their restaurants and bars less and less.  Nothing that I ate or drank on my last trip would make me want to go back for unlimited quantities on AI.


----------



## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> I see that you are in a tropical state of mind with thoughts of Jimmy Buffett on this holiday.  :whoopie:



LOL Mike!


----------



## Former Cruiser

I'm sure this question was answered, but after reading all the posts my head is spinning  

If I, as an owner, have to exchange my week for a different week do I have to pay the AI?


----------



## Phydeaux

Former Cruiser said:


> I'm sure this question was answered, but after reading all the posts my head is spinning
> 
> If I, as an owner, have to exchange my week for a different week do I have to pay the AI?



As a member, you may want to brush up from the source directly.  

The answer to your question is, no.

"All Inclusive package will always be optional for all members registered in the membership agreement regardless of when or how they stay at the resort, i.e. when staying in their membership unit, exchanging their unit for another one through an internal exchange or with an International Exchange company or when they rent additional units for their personal use".


Side note - I still see so many RR *members* referring to themselves as "owners". What is it that you feel you own?  At this point, I'm really glad I don't consider myself an _owner_.


----------



## tashamen

donnaval said:


> The AIs we've used typically charge by room capacity rather than number of people - for example, a hotel type room with an occupancy of two would have to pay two AI fees even if only one person used the room.  If a couple wants to move up to a suite or one-bedroom with a capacity of 4, the cost was either x the number of potential guests for the room, or simply a much higher cost for the "upgrade."  We often travel with just two or three in a 2-br - is the Royal management going to be content with collecting "just" two AI daily fees of we snag a 2-br on II



Interesting question - we've been to RH twice and both times it was just DH and myself in a 2BR.  Of course this will not be an issue since we will not be exchanging in there again after the AI starts.


----------



## DebBrown

Webhoncho;1320745I know that if I saw a resort on II that had an AI said:
			
		

> Me, too.  We are not owners but have enjoyed many exchanges to Royal resorts.  Any with a mandatory AI will be excluded as possibilities in the future.
> 
> I'll keep hoping this is a short lived experiment.
> 
> deb


----------



## ilene13

Phydeaux said:


> Judging from the ratio of comments I've read from non-members (exchangers) that oppose the AI requirement vs. those that are willing and happy about it, this maneuver may just keep the exchangers from coming entirely. The restaurants will go from nearly empty every day to _very_ empty year round. The Royal Resorts are trying to be something they are not. How often do we see businesses attempt this and fail? Look around. It happens all the time.
> 
> Here's a different idea: Need to improve the restaurant and bar business? How about providing top notch food and value prices *that are reflective of location*. As someone pointed out earlier, this is _Mexico_, a developing  nation, not Bora Bora or Tahiti.
> The overhead is much lower, the wage scale is much lower, the food costs are lower, the cost of living is much lower. But somehow the Royal Resorts finds it appropriate to charge $26 for a Mexican buffet of tacos and re-fried beans and $16 for a breakfast buffet? WDF?
> 
> My guests were charged $17.50 USD for their two cocktails last year after they arrived. They never went back to the bar for their entire week stay. I always BYO because I already knew better. Has anyone noticed the sports desks have been closed down? No, the Royal Resorts need to change alright. *Change management*!!!
> 
> Locals: There's a GREAT business opportunity here for you! Prepare meals for just two people for the week and you could charge them $1,450 using their full kitchen and still be under their AI cost of $1,470! That's almost $74,000/year preparing meals for just two people - not a bad salary, in Mexico. Hell, I'd do it if I was retired!!!



The sports desk at the Sands was open in April and the one at the Haciendas was open when we there last November.


----------



## Phydeaux

ilene13 said:


> The sports desk at the Sands was open in April and the one at the Haciendas was open when we there last November.



The sports desks at the Royal Mayan, Royal Caribbean and Royal Islander were all closed week 8, 2012. 

What's your point?


----------



## ilene13

Phydeaux said:


> The sports desks at the Royal Mayan, Royal Caribbean and Royal Islander were all closed week 8, 2012.
> 
> What's your point?



Just stating a fact.


----------



## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> The sports desks at the Royal Mayan, Royal Caribbean and Royal Islander were all closed week 8, 2012.
> 
> What's your point?



Strange ... I was at the Royal Mayan week 8/2012 - I wonder where I could possibly have gone for our beach towels ... ??????

Where did you get yours?


----------



## pjrose

Sports desks at RC and RI were open weeks 25 and 26 2012.


----------



## ocdb8r

maciec said:


> Pricing is out
> 
> http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp
> 
> $400 per day for my family of 5.



Insane.  I can't imagine there is a sufficient market of people interested in timesharing that drop that amount of $$$ on food each day.  We sure as :ignore:  don't.  What in the world could Management be thinking?  Have they looked at the AI market in the Cancun area?  It's two goups:



The RIU types that want to drink as much alcohol as they can to ensure they get good value for their AI fee.  A group I hope the Royals isn't trying to attract and one which I don't think would enjoy the more family vibe of the resort.


The ultra high end luxury types that want to go somewhere VERY exclusive and not think about any other costs.  Yes, there are a few "timeshares" in this category, but I don't think the Royals compete favorably in this category.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the RS and RH but I don't think they quite fit into the luxury market.

Sure, there is probably some segment of the family timeshare market that would be glad to take advantage of this package but I don't think it's nearly worth pissing off your "members" to force upon exchangers.  Why not make it optional for all if you're just trying to attract some more revenue?


----------



## Phydeaux

X-ring said:


> Strange ... I was at the Royal Mayan week 8/2012 - I wonder where I could possibly have gone for our beach towels ... ??????
> 
> Where did you get yours?



To clarify, I'm not talking about the towel desk. I'm referencing the water sports desks that used to support fishing excursions and sporting activities. The Royal Mayan water sports desk is at bldg A, see the resort map if you don't know what I'm referencing. See key WS.  I believe they were closed in 2011 as well. 

Perhaps now we can bring this back to topic...


----------



## Phydeaux

ocdb8r said:


> Insane.  I can't imagine there is a sufficient market of people interested in timesharing that drop that amount of $$$ on food each day.  We sure as :ignore:  don't.  What in the world could Management be thinking?  Have they looked at the AI market in the Cancun area?  It's two goups:
> 
> 
> 
> The RIU types that want to drink as much alcohol as they can to ensure they get good value for their AI fee.  A group I hope the Royals isn't trying to attract and one which *I don't think would enjoy the more family vibe of the resort.*
> 
> 
> The ultra high end luxury types that want to go somewhere VERY exclusive and not think about any other costs.  Yes, there are a few "timeshares" in this category, but I don't think the Royals compete favorably in this category.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the RS and RH but I don't think they quite fit into the luxury market.
> 
> Sure, there is probably some segment of the family timeshare market that would be glad to take advantage of this package but I don't think it's nearly worth pissing off your "members" to force upon exchangers.  *Why not make it optional for all if you're just trying to attract some more revenue?*



The much greater concern is how the RR members will not enjoy the vibe of the AI crowd. We've noticed a growing trend of unruly renters during the past several years. This year, there was a group that seemed to relish getting intoxicated and seeing how much noise they could make, every afternoon/evening. It echoed throughout the RH every night. With unlimited alcohol and food, do you think your resorts will even come close to providing the family atmosphere it once did? Better buckle your seat belts..

More revenue for who??  Why not efficiently operate the resorts on the steady revenue stream of member maintenance fees? Management salaries and resort operations are financed by on our MF's. AI's and hotels can only dream they had the steady influx of revenue pouring in annually, regardless if their rooms were occupied or vacant. Who is getting this extra revenue? You? Me??? Of course not. Other timeshare resorts can operate from their maintenance fees, why can't the Royal Resorts? Because the cost of labor, food, overhead, and overall expenses are higher than say, Tahiti? I don't think so. This is Mexico!!!

I only wish more members would ask more questions of management. Here's one for starters: Since RR members are bound by contract, and essentially a captive audience required to pay annual maintenance fees whether they occupy their villa, or allow it to remain vacant, why did the Royal Resorts feel they needed to compete with AI's? You didn't know that one of the main reasons the majority of members purchased was because the RR's were NOT AI? Where are these AI revenues going? I have to believe they will be an additional line item on the budget sheet..


----------



## pjrose

Good post, Phydeaux.  

Remember that the RR kept the restaurants, bars, etc as separate corporations, and they aren't part of our MFs.  So any profit or loss from them won't be affected in our MFs.  But we're the ones who'll deal with crowding, noise, mess, and different atmosphere if that's what happens.


----------



## dbmarch

I don't quite understand what their goal is.   To scare away the exchangers?  

The AI rates are very high.   I predict there will much fewer exchangers as they paid their MF on their units, paid an exchange fee, and are obtaining a unit which has a kitchen.   Add the AI fee on top of this, and its quite steep.    Anyone with kids will find that the kids rates really high compared to what it costs to feed the child.  (Maybe you get your money's worth with supervised kids club).   When we travel, if we eat out, its typically for dinner and/or lunch.  We don't eat out 3 meals a day.   We eat well but we don't average this amount on a daily basis.

Renters will still come as the AI is part of the daily rate.  They'll make sure they get their money's worth at the bar!    

It'll be interesting what percentage of owners use the AI.   Its optional for them so for those that this appeals to, they can utilize it and the rest can pass on AI.   It also looks like they could start the week without it and then add it for the last 4 day.   I would guess the success of this program depends on the how it is utilized by the members.  (My guess is < 25% but I look forward to seeing this published!)


----------



## noodlethepoodle

Phydeaux said:


> Here's a prediction, and I very well could be wrong. Time will tell.
> 
> The pending all inclusive requirement of non-members will never materialize. It will never even launch.



Unfortunately they are going ahead with this misguided concept.  Timeshare people are a different demographic than ai travelers.

We have been to the RS many times but should they continue Ai this Jan. will be the last time for us.  We were confirmed through II in March and thus not subject to the new AI system.

One of the pleasures of visiting Cancun is eating dinner in many different restaurants.  We have tried all of the Royal restaurants and only like El Coquistador, but I would not want to have dinner there 7 nights.  The Royals don't have enough fine dining restaurants to attract people who like the AI concept.

I too usually travel with family.  I agree with the others who note that AI is unaffordable, and for me undesirable.


----------



## moonlightgraham

After waxing on and on about my Mexican vacations to the Royals a work colleague booked a package deal to Grand Bahia Akumal, all-inclusive for a long weekend. He came back and raved about the trip, not the least of which was the good food at the numerous restaurants and good drinks he had on property, which he never left. For him, it was more about the simplicity of the concept: pay one price and get flights, room and board in an international destination without having to do much, if any, research and just have a good time with minimal hassle once there. That's a concept that obviously appeals to many Americans, one-stop shopping without having to worry about exchange rates, local customs, etc.. 

He made one comment, however, that convinced my the concept will have a tough time at the Royals. He mentioned the many restaurants, and diverse cuisine selections, they had on site at the Grand Bahia and the fact he and his wife didn't even get to all of them on their short 4-night stay. I dare say an AI customer at the Royals will tire pretty soon of the limited venues and menu selections after a few nights in a typical 7-night stay.


----------



## pjrose

moonlightgraham said:


> . . .
> 
> He made one comment, however, that convinced my the concept will have a tough time at the Royals. He mentioned the many restaurants, and diverse cuisine selections, they had on site at the Grand Bahia and the fact he and his wife didn't even get to all of them on their short 4-night stay. I dare say an AI customer at the Royals will tire pretty soon of the limited venues and menu selections after a few nights in a typical 7-night stay.



That is one of the problems.  
I discussed it with our rep, who pointed out all the ways they're planning to meet this need.  First, those at the Sands and Haciendas can also use Captain's Cove and El Conquistador (though one wonders what happens with El Conquistador when/if the RM goes away).  Also, those at the Sands and Haciendas can use each others' restaurants (transportation not included...takes away the "easy no hassle" part of AI).  

He said that if the Tris (or Twins?) go AI, they can make the RC Lobby Bar a restaurant, as well as the grill area on one of the sundecks, which is presently used only for the Welcome party, as well as a few other places which elude me.  And if/when the Tris join the AI party, everyone can eat at any of the Royals, so that expands the restaurant offerings.  Having to go off-site more than once or twice will be off-putting for some people, and until/unless they figure out how to get the free shuttle back to its frequent operation, that'll be an issue too.


----------



## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> First, those at the Sands and Haciendas can also use Captain's Cove and El Conquistador (though one wonders what happens with El Conquistador when/if the RM goes away).  Also, those at the Sands and Haciendas they can use each others' restaurants (transportation not included...takes away the "easy no hassle" part of AI).



With a stretch, I could almost make this work in Cancun, assuming multiple visits to Captain's Cove and if possible keeping El Conquistador in the mix.  There's also Hacienda Sisal as an option.  But, I would still not want to be locked in to only the RR offerings.   The RH is another story.   It just doesn't make sense to me.  (  )

Mike


----------



## ilene13

Neither makes sense to me.  There are so many good restaurants in Cancun I would never want to just eat at the RR offerings.  As I said in another post we went to the Grand Luxxe in Feb, through an II trade, and although they are not AI they had about 10 restaurants.  The choices went from upscale Asian, Italian, Mexican, fish to burgers.  I could see a place like that going AI but not the RS or the RH--both of which I own weeks at.


----------



## MuranoJo

ilene13 said:


> Neither makes sense to me.  There are so many good restaurants in Cancun I would never want to just eat at the RR offerings.  As I said in another post we went to the Grand Luxxe in Feb, through an II trade, and although they are not AI they had about 10 restaurants.  The choices went from upscale Asian, Italian, Mexican, fish to burgers.  *I could see a place like that going AI *but not the RS or the RH--both of which I own weeks at.



Don't give them any ideas.     Heck, sounds like they may be one of the few remaining non-AI in MX.


----------



## Tropical lady

*Nooooooooooo!*

No, no, and no, puleese!!!
We would not have purchased at an AI.  This was a selling point used in our first presentation that they were not AI.
Interesting to see that the vast majority of Getaways and Extra Vacations always remaining are AI.  I've been following this thread and still do not understand why the Royals, a great t/s, would entertain a turn a round of this scope to go to AI.  Hopefully the predictions that it won't happen will come true.


----------



## flexible

Tropical lady said:


> No, no, and no, puleese!!!
> We would not have purchased at an AI.  This was a selling point used in our first presentation that they were not AI.
> Interesting to see that the vast majority of Getaways and Extra Vacations always remaining are AI.  I've been following this thread and still do not understand why the Royals, a great t/s, would entertain a turn a round of this scope to go to AI.  Hopefully the predictions that it won't happen will come true.



Wasn't http://royalresorts.com/ one of the only TWO resorts that ICE/OVC accepted unlimted timeshare points towards cruises for up until about 2007 or 2008? (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175308 explains what ICE/OVC means)

An ICE/OVC agent once mentioned Royal Resorts was not paying ICE/OVC timely or refusing to pay some bills for part of their contract or whatever (I have no idea if that was true - I just know what an agent told me) and subsequently their agreements were severely changed to the detriment of Royal Resorts Members. Does anyone know more about what I am referring to? Does anyone with a HUGE Royal contract that used to CRUISE a lot with their Royal points/weeks/whatever it was called recall a HUGE change in benefits to Royal Members about 2008 or so?

AI is still optional on all EVCV contracts. The only contract I agreed to 'upgrade' was our ECVC which now allows FOUR (4) AI anytime either my husband or I are registered guests. Sometimes I regret the additional cost of the upgrade because it will take decades to 'break even' on the additional expense. It would have been cheaper to just pay for AI when we use the resort. 99% of the time it is just the 2 of us so 2 AI go unused even though they could cover 2 other people but they would have to be there under our contract.

Our Velas Vallarta fractional contract signed in 2000 (4 weeks x 25 years = 100 weeks) does NOT require us to pay AI. We get a discounted rate for AI if we want it. I have no reason to suspect they will suddenly demand that we MUST pay AI. Are RoyalResorts.com members with old contracts being told they MUST pay AI? 

Anyways not only do we have 4 AI included our cost for AI is less expensive that the publicly stated rates. What is going on with the Royals? I am confused. Are they just strong arming you to pay it if you want to use your ts contract? This is happening up and down Cancun to Tulum right now. Or it seems that way for the past few years.


----------



## tschwa2

flexible said:


> Wasn't http://royalresorts.com/ one of the only TWO resorts that ICE/OVC accepted unlimted timeshare points towards cruises for up until about 2007 or 2008? (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175308 explains what ICE/OVC means)
> 
> An ICE/OVC agent once mentioned Royal Resorts was not paying ICE/OVC timely or refusing to pay some bills for part of their contract or whatever (I have no idea if that was true - I just know what an agent told me) and subsequently their agreements were severely changed to the detriment of Royal Resorts Members. Does anyone know more about what I am referring to? Does anyone with a HUGE Royal contract that used to CRUISE a lot with their Royal points/weeks/whatever it was called recall a HUGE change in benefits to Royal Members about 2008 or so?
> 
> AI is still optional on all EVCV contracts. The only contract I agreed to 'upgrade' was our ECVC which now allows FOUR (4) AI anytime either my husband or I are registered guests. Sometimes I regret the additional cost of the upgrade because it will take decades to 'break even' on the additional expense. It would have been cheaper to just pay for AI when we use the resort. 99% of the time it is just the 2 of us so 2 AI go unused even though they could cover 2 other people but they would have to be there under our contract.
> 
> Anyways not only do we have 4 AI included our cost for AI is less expensive that the publicly stated rates. What is going on with the Royals? I am confused. Are they just strong arming you to pay it if you want to use your ts contract? This is happening up and down Cancun to Tulum right now. Or it seems that way for the past few years.



I think you are thinking of the Royal Sunset not the royal resorts on this thread.  The Royal Sunset has always been AI and was one of the big pusher of RCI points 10- 15 years ago.  They let members access all 20 or 50 years of points by paying advance MF's.  They had a decent points to MF ratio and it was before RCI and others had a limit on Points transactions.  Members were sold huge packages and told they could use as many points as they needed for cruises and airfares.  I think members had typical Mexican buy in's of around $20K but then could get $10,000 in airfare and or cruises for around $4000 in MF.    RCI and presumably ICE was flooded with hundreds of thousands of points which represented 20-50,000 studio units at AI's with high mandatory AI fees that no one wanted to trade into.


----------



## tsl

buceo said:


> I agree, but will add what it's all about is bringing in a whole new customer base (who spend while on vacation) to try and sell units to while getting rid of the "getaways are less than MF" problem.



I'm one of those bonus week people who is currently at the Sands with my friends. We have eaten at the resort at least once a day and spent $800 at spa. We are the exchangers you want. We spend money  But we won't come back when it is AI. The food at the buffet at RH was bad when we went on the shopping tour/resort tour. I'd be angry getting a meal like that daily. Plus there are not enough food choices for 7 days. Everyone on our tour (owners & exchangers alike) complained. 

It's also not just the money. I like having coffee and yogurt on the patio for breakfast in my pjs. With AI you either give that up or pay twice. To bring my kids would cost our family $2800 on top of the spring break ski week we gave up & the exchange fee. 

I love Mexico and the Royals  I think it is getting a bad rap and tourism is clearly down plus it is a bad economy. So why would you price the resort out of range for many families who bought timeshares for this reason?

Sadly, I predict low trading power & resale as well as a change in the type of guests who stay.  I hope the owners can reverse this.


----------



## buceo

tsl said:


> ...I love Mexico and the Royals...
> Sadly, I predict low trading power & resale...



As the said resale prices drop even more, might one buy a week, even an EOY etc?  One just needs to own, then AI is optional, certainly part of their equation in my opinion.  Or rent yours out and rent from an owner, do a direct exchange with an owner, then again AI is optional.  Still some options. Otherwise they will be sorry to lose your business.


----------



## kenie

buceo said:


> As the said resale prices drop even more, might one buy a week, even an EOY etc?  One just needs to own, then AI is optional, certainly part of their equation in my opinion.  Or rent yours out and rent from an owner, do a direct exchange with an owner, then again AI is optional.  Still some options. Otherwise they will be sorry to lose your business.



This was the reason we bought an eoy lock-off at the Royal Sands. $360 every 2nd year and we can exchange in all we want...


----------



## dennisokey

pjrose said:


> You are right, you were wrong once before.
> Or are you wrong, you were right once before.



Well even a busted clock is correct twice a day!!


----------



## Helene4

pjrose said:


> Good post, Phydeaux.
> 
> Remember that the RR kept the restaurants, bars, etc as separate corporations, and they aren't part of our MFs.  So any profit or loss from them won't be affected in our MFs.  But we're the ones who'll deal with crowding, noise, mess, and different atmosphere if that's what happens.



Nor does the management pay "rent" for use of the sales office space and *collects* rent for all consessions (store, spa, sports). So how much more do they need to make it run _efficiently_


----------



## Helene4

pjrose said:


> That is one of the problems.
> .  First, those at the Sands and Haciendas can also use Captain's Cove and El Conquistador (though one wonders what happens with El Conquistador when/if the RM goes away).  Also, those at the Sands and Haciendas can use each others' restaurants (transportation not included...takes away the "easy no hassle" part of AI).
> 
> 
> I'm at the RH. Do you REALLY think I would travel 45 minutes to eat at a Captains Cove (which has been getting luke warm reviews, or at El Conquistador which is one of the best inCancun) restaurant when there are to numerous to mention GREAT restaurants in Playa? ....and transportation on MY dime?:hysterical:  I think not.


----------



## LisaH

For that knd of money, they could at least throw in free shuttles between Cancun and PDC.


----------



## mbvaghi

*Renting My Royal Sands Unit*

I am an owner and I usually post my units for rent in September. When I rent to a non-member do they need to pay the all-inclusive fee? Do I need to be at the resort for them to opt out.

I live in the DC area and we have been notified that there is a focus group being run by the Royal Resorts next week in Baltimore. I wonder if there is trouble in Paradise?


----------



## Phydeaux

mbvaghi said:


> I am an owner and I usually post my units for rent in September. When I rent to a non-member do they need to pay the all-inclusive fee? Do I need to be at the resort for them to opt out.
> 
> I live in the DC area and we have been notified that there is a focus group being run by the Royal Resorts next week in Baltimore. I wonder if there is trouble in Paradise?



When you rent your villa to a non-member, you are utilizing the Owner Loan document. No, your renter is not required to opt into the AI package.

As a member, you'd be well advised to log into the RR website and brush up on these changes, since they do affect you. Further, you may wish to update your profile as you apparently are not receiving communications directly from. The Royals have been communicating with their members by email. If I were you, I'd fix that.


----------



## mbvaghi

Phydeaux said:


> When you rent your villa to a non-member, you are utilizing the Owner Loan document. No, your renter is not required to opt into the AI package.
> 
> As a member, you'd be well advised to log into the RR website and brush up on these changes, since they do affect you. Further, you may wish to update your profile as you apparently are not receiving communications directly from. The Royals have been communicating with their members by email. If I were you, I'd fix that.




Thank you - I am signed into the Royal Resorts and receive their emails. I also have gone to the website but became confused - hence this posting.  After your kind response I did find this same information under the FAQ - which I should have looked at first. I apologize for the inconvenience.


----------



## Phydeaux

mbvaghi said:


> Thank you - I am signed into the Royal Resorts and receive their emails. I also have gone to the website but became confused - hence this posting.  After your kind response I did find this same information under the FAQ - which I should have looked at first. I apologize for the inconvenience.



No inconvenience at all. Happy to help.


----------



## sstug

Phydeaux said:


> Further, you may wish to update your profile as you apparently are not receiving communications directly from. The Royals have been communicating with their members by email. If I were you, I'd fix that.




FYI...I have verified my email on the ISCO site, verified my email with my host while in Cancun, provide my email every time I pre-register, and even am signed up for the RR news emails....BUT for some reason the Royals have not sent me a single email regarding the surveys, the AI or the RM sale (I do own there).  My email has never changed.  So it is a mystery to me why all RR members don't receive all emails. Several others have spoken up regarding the same issue.  I posted an inquiry on the RR forum hoping management would respond but they just ignored my post.


----------



## pjrose

You might want to check with ISCO to see if the invitation you received is really from the Royals - see this, posted a few months ago on
http://www.royalresorts.com/membersarea/important-info-27jun2012.asp

Members Area » Important Information for Royal Resorts Members / June 27, 2012
IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR ROYAL RESORTS MEMBERS

June 27, 2012

It has come to our attention that several members have received phone calls from persons claiming to represent Royal Resorts, or in some cases a well-known exchange company, inviting them to a dinner event in their town to speak about their membership or the new changes being planned by Royal Resorts. Those who have gone reported that this dinner is actually a sales event.

In the past we obtained reports from Members that have received phone calls or emails from various resale companies claiming to represent Royal Resorts or several other well-known resort groups. They claim that they have a buyer for the member’s Royal Resorts Membership and that they do not charge a sales commission but instead all they need to do is pay a title search fee for the sale to take place.

We would like to stress that Royal Resorts has no knowledge of these events or resale companies and is not associated with them in any way. We therefore recommend that if you receive such a phone call you report it to Royal Resorts and proceed with caution.

If you have received a phone call or email of this nature and have information to share, please feel free to contact us.​


----------



## buceo

pjrose said:


> You might want to check with ISCO to see if the invitation you received is really from the Royals -...[/INDENT]



Good point pjrose, I did check directly with marketing at the Royals and this focus group is the real deal.  I suggested they clarify on their web site that while there is a scam going on they have a real one too.


----------



## Ellis2ca

*But You Have Friends!*



maciec said:


> As an exchanger we won't be going back to the Royals if the AI is fully implemented.  I have a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids under 12).  My husband and I don't drink.  Our family isn't full of big eaters either.  We don't want to leave the beach or pool to get dressed and go and eat.  We spent a total of $150 a day on food outside of the market.  My little ones don't even eat $10 worth of food when we eat out so how on earth would that be beneficial to us?  It's not.  I hope it fails so we can come back.  Whats the point of having the Markets and the full kitchens if we are forced to do AI?  I think you will find a lot of families like ours that feel the same way.



Hey, Melissa... but you can always EXCHANGE or RENT to one of the Royals through one of us members... here on TUG... 

So... DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.  YOU have all the SAME privileges because YOU HAVE YOUR FRIENDS here at TUG.   We're good friends, right?   If WE have the privilege of NO AI, then YOU have the same privilege.   

Heck, I haven't exchanged through II or R.C.I. in more than 20 years.   I have rented in and rented out and exchanged always through TUG.


----------



## 1965

i have gone to royal sands in the royal resorts system many times
I was shocked yesterday to find out. It has been become an "all inclusive resort" with an additional $3840 fee for the (7) days for the (6) in my family.
I cancelled my week at the "royal Sands" in the "royal resorts" system

I was offered the "Royal Cancun" resort in the "royal resorts" system
a two bedroom, for the (7) same nights

Pls help me!

Positive?
negative?

should i accept the "Royal Cancun" resort in the "Royal Resorts" system
a two bedroom, two bathroom?


----------



## 1965

i was just offered by "Interval" the "royal mayan" with no all inclusive fee 
2 bedroom + 2 bathroom
for the exact same dates 
as the "royal Sands" with the $3840 all inclusive fee
2 bedroom+ 2 bathroom
that i just cancelled with "interval"


is "royal Mayan" a good place for our family trip?'

since it is part of tri royals
royal Caribbean
royal mayan
royal caribbean

can we accesss the beach and all restaruants of all (3) royal resorts
very conveniently?

can I still take the "royal shuttle" to the "royal sands" and use the swimming pool + the Beach?  or am I no longer welcome to go to the "royal sands" from the "royal Mayan" becasue of its new "all inclusive fee"


----------



## 1965

The interval reservation # for the (2) bedroom+ (2) bathroom at the "royal Mayan" is AI.  It scares me the "royal mayan" now has an all inclusive fee.

I called royal resorts. THey told me the royal mayan does not have an all inclusinve fee

I called Interval. They told me the royal mayan does not have an all inclusive fee

but the letters AI on the Interval reservation for the royal mayan resort
bothes me, should i be troubled, by the letters AI??


----------



## craigchams

The AI is only at the Royal Sands and the Royal Haciendas. If you stay at any of the other Royals, you will be able to use you card at any of the other Royals including the Royal Sands and the Haciendas. If you rent directly from an owner at the Sands or Haciendas, you don't have to purchase the AI.


----------



## pjrose

1965 said:


> i was just offered by "Interval" the "royal mayan" with no all inclusive fee
> 2 bedroom + 2 bathroom
> for the exact same dates
> as the "royal Sands" with the $3840 all inclusive fee
> 2 bedroom+ 2 bathroom
> that i just cancelled with "interval"
> 
> 
> is "royal Mayan" a good place for our family trip?'
> 
> since it is part of tri royals
> royal Caribbean
> royal mayan
> royal caribbean
> 
> can we accesss the beach and all restaruants of all (3) royal resorts
> very conveniently?
> 
> can I still take the "royal shuttle" to the "royal sands" and use the swimming pool + the Beach?  or am I no longer welcome to go to the "royal sands" from the "royal Mayan" becasue of its new "all inclusive fee"





1965 said:


> The interval reservation # for the (2) bedroom+ (2) bathroom at the "royal Mayan" is AI.  It scares me the "royal mayan" now has an all inclusive fee.
> 
> I called royal resorts. THey told me the royal mayan does not have an all inclusinve fee
> 
> I called Interval. They told me the royal mayan does not have an all inclusive fee
> 
> but the letters AI on the Interval reservation for the royal mayan resort
> bothes me, should i be troubled, by the letters AI??




Go to The Royal Mayan.  It is NOT AI.  Don't worry.  That "AI" you see is a typo.  You can verify everything about the AI here, more details than you want or need:

http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp

Yes, it, or any of the Tris, is a great place for a family vacation without the AI fee.  Yes, you will have easy convenient full access to the beach, all the restaurants, the shuttle, the Sands, etc.  Go to http://www.Mexicondo.com and look at the photo at the top of the screen.  It shows the Tri-Royals, all three next to each other and all right on the beach.  

Are you doing an Exchange or Rental?  If it's a rental, you might instead rent from an owner, on TUG, Redweek, OMCancun, etc.  It'll likely be cheaper than renting from The Royals AND then you definitely do NOT have to do the AI, even at The Sands or Haciendas.


----------



## 1965

I read on trip advisor that the tri royals are going to all inclusive like the Royal Sands after the 1st of the year.  Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## 1965

*is this trip advisor post correct?*

This was my family's 1st vacation to Cancun & we just loved the area. After a few days, we all said we would definitely come back to any of the Royal resorts until we found out that the Royal Mayan is being sold as are some of the other Royal resorts in Cancun. The new owner will be changing them all to "all inclusive" resorts. We are an Interval member & came to the Royal Mayan on an exchange. They told us that if wanted to come back and exchange in again, it would cost us an additional $150 - $200 per person per day for the meals. I am not sure if this includes transportation to/from airport. Anyway, I hope we can return to Cancun again to another similar resort without the "all inclusive". We were sad to hear this because the Royal resorts are fabulous.


----------



## BoaterMike

1965 said:


> I read on trip advisor that the tri royals are going to all inclusive like the Royal Sands after the 1st of the year.  Can anyone confirm this?



Yes to AI however the AI actually starts with week 43 this year at the Royal Sands and the Royal Haciendas.  I would look through more of this thread as the AI is the reason for the discussion.

Another thread:  Anther Royal Resorts AI thread

More  details can be found at:
http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/faq-packages.asp

Mike


----------



## BoaterMike

1965 said:


> This was my family's 1st vacation to Cancun & we just loved the area. After a few days, we all said we would definitely come back to any of the Royal resorts until we found out that the Royal Mayan is being sold as are some of the other Royal resorts in Cancun. The new owner will be changing them all to "all inclusive" resorts. .



The AI is not directly related to a new owner.  The current management company is changing the Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas to AI.   The Tri Royals MAY be impacted next year.   The original contracts at Royal Mayan expire in 2013 meaning that the property may be sold.   The RC and the RI expire in 2018 and 2023(? sorry can't remember RI.)  

There are ways to get around the AI by exchanging with or renting directly from an owner.   So, don't be overly alarmed at this point.  We don't know how successful the AI venture is going to be.  We will be watching closely over the next couple of months to see how it goes. 

M


----------



## 1965

is this correct?  The "Royal mayan"resort is becoming an "all inclusive" resort in jan,2013  just like the "royal Sands" and the "Royal Hacienda"
but it does not mean that the "Royal Caribeean" and/or "royal Mayan"
will be going for sure to "all Inclusive" also in Jan,2013?


----------



## BoaterMike

1965 said:


> is this correct?  The "Royal mayan"resort is becoming an "all inclusive" resort in jan,2013  just like the "royal Sands" and the "Royal Hacienda"



Not that we know of at this time.  The property reaches the end of the original timeshare agreement term and will be sold or new agreement terms will be offered to owners.  This is detailed and complex.  There are other threads that address what is happening at the RM.   Perhaps a RM would like to add more detail.  

You can not even book a Royal Mayan villa on the RR site after a certain point in 2013.   I assume the same for an exchange.  




1965 said:


> but it does not mean that the "Royal Caribeean" and/or "royal Mayan"
> will be going for sure to "all Inclusive" also in Jan,2013?



The Royal Caribbean, Royal Islander and Royal Cancun MAY be transitioned to AI, but there are no dates published to this point.  Any exchanges that occur in to these properties


----------



## 1965

My aunt owns a time share at the t "royal Islander"

If my Aunt then  trades her "royal Islander" timesahre for a "royal Sands"  Timeshare thru interval, then does an interval Guest Certificate + puts the "royal Sands" timeshare reservation thru "interval" in my name.
I then go to the "royal Sands" timeshare without my aunt

am I subject to the "all Inclusive" Royal sands fee of $4410 per week
for the (6) adults in my group?
or
am I not subject to the "all inclusive" royal sands fee of $4410 per week for the (6) adults in my group, because my aunt is a "royal resort" owner thru
her "royal islander" timeshare ownership?


----------



## pjrose

1965 said:


> My aunt owns a time share at the t "royal Islander"
> 
> If my Aunt then  trades her "royal Islander" timesahre for a "royal Sands"  Timeshare thru interval, then does an interval Guest Certificate + puts the "royal Sands" timeshare reservation thru "interval" in my name.
> I then go to the "royal Sands" timeshare without my aunt
> 
> am I subject to the "all Inclusive" Royal sands fee of $4410 per week
> for the (6) adults in my group?
> or
> am I not subject to the "all inclusive" royal sands fee of $4410 per week for the (6) adults in my group, because my aunt is a "royal resort" owner thru
> her "royal islander" timeshare ownership?



Go to the link we have posted several times...
Http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/faq-packages.asp
And read #14 under FAQ.  
You will NOT have mandatory AI.  

Or just go to one of the tri royals, which do not have AI.  They MAY introduce AI, but even if they do, as long as you make your arrangements (rental or exchange) before the announcement, you are exempt.


----------

