# Trip to Italy, would like input



## Quilter (Jun 5, 2015)

Planning a trip to see our daughter and new SIL in September.   I guessed at dates and have air on hold with American/US.   Not milesaver. . .440K miles .   Have reservations for 2 rooms at this Marriott property:  https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/lcvbr-renaissance-tuscany-il-ciocco-resort-and-spa/

We will fly in/out of Venice and take train to hotel.   At least that's what I thought we could do.   It gives us time to visit the kids place in Vicenza.   I really have no idea the logistics of the train and have asked DD to check into it.   On the hotel website it says the closest train station is only 4.3 miles away.   

If you have any input you can add I would appreciate it.   Are these dates good for weather?   I'd love to be able to relax by the pool.


----------



## pharmgirl (Jun 5, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Planning a trip to see our daughter and new SIL in September.   I guessed at dates and have air on hold with American/US.   Not milesaver. . .440K miles .   Have reservations for 2 rooms at this Marriott property:  https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/lcvbr-renaissance-tuscany-il-ciocco-resort-and-spa/
> 
> We will fly in/out of Venice and take train to hotel.   At least that's what I thought we could do.   It gives us time to visit the kids place in Vicenza.   I really have no idea the logistics of the train and have asked DD to check into it.   On the hotel website it says the closest train station is only 4.3 miles away.
> 
> If you have any input you can add I would appreciate it.   Are these dates good for weather?   I'd love to be able to relax by the pool.


September is great time for Italy, still warm and fewer crowds of tourists, lucky you, going to Venice, it is beautiful!


----------



## Ann in CA (Jun 5, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Planning a trip to see our daughter and new SIL in September.   I guessed at dates and have air on hold with American/US.   Not milesaver. . .440K miles .   Have reservations for 2 rooms at this Marriott property:  https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/lcvbr-renaissance-tuscany-il-ciocco-resort-and-spa/
> 
> We will fly in/out of Venice and take train to hotel.   At least that's what I thought we could do.   It gives us time to visit the kids place in Vicenza.   I really have no idea the logistics of the train and have asked DD to check into it.   On the hotel website it says the closest train station is only 4.3 miles away.
> 
> If you have any input you can add I would appreciate it.   Are these dates good for weather?   I'd love to be able to relax by the pool.



This is the place I'd researched to start when we visited our son in Germany last month. The reviews sounded great. The only negative thing commented on was the distance and driving time from the hotel to other cities. Think it was about 45 minutes to Lucca, although there are closer villages for dining. As it worked out, our son's return date to Germany was beyond his control, so I canceled and used the back up week we'd actually planned to spend with him at Marriott's Village d'lle de France to hang out until he returned. 

Would still like to get to that Renaissance! We can fly into Aviano with the Air Force, and the drive over looked pretty easy. Love that whole area, so I hope someone with first hand experience speaks up! We had planned to use a 5 day travel package, but think 3 days might be enough, unless we just enjoy some relaxing time after a long flight. Without a car, not sure I'd be tempted though. 

Good luck!


----------



## Bill4728 (Jun 5, 2015)

IMHO, If you are flying into Venice you need to stay in Venice at least a day or two. Then you can easily train to where ever in Italy 

Vicenza is really close to Venice (< 30 minutes) BUT the hotel you reserved is really a long ways away. (like want to be near Boston and reserving a room in Philly.) 

Weather in Italy is really good in September maybe even too hot  but you'll just have to  see. 

Have a great trip


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 5, 2015)

Trains are excellent in Italy. You may find other flight options by flying into Milan instead, as its a larger airport. It's also only a few hour train ride, if that, from Milan. I'd recommend a few days around Lake Como - I did this after flying to Milan and it was a great start for a trip.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## pedro47 (Jun 5, 2015)

The month of September is an idea time to visit Italy. The tourist season will be at a very low period.   
Also, please purchase some euros in advance. You will need to convert your dollars to euros to spend in Italy.


----------



## pharmgirl (Jun 5, 2015)

No need to buy euros before trip, just use ATMs, get some at airport, then at first city you stay
ATMs usually have good rates
Marriott card has no foreign exchange fee, good to use,


----------



## Quilter (Jun 5, 2015)

Thank you for all the replies so far.   

I did look at flights to Milan.   Made another hold for going into Venice and out of Milan.   That gives us a couple days at the kids place and a couple days in Milan before leaving.

The 440K miles is difficult to swallow.   I can book coach for 120K.   What is it like flying overnight in coach?


----------



## jimf41 (Jun 5, 2015)

Wx will be great. September is when we usually go to Europe and in that region it will be pleasantly warm. We also have used the trains all over Italy. They are very good and I recommend you buy a 1st class ticket. My concern would be the train station at Barga where you will have to get transportation to the resort. That's a very small town and you may not find a taxi there or if you do it might be a very long wait. You better check with the resort on that.

It's only about 180 miles so you might consider renting a car. If you go by train do a lot of prep work beforehand. Know where the 1st class car is on the train, know how many changes you have to make and check out Rick Steves website. He's the guru on train travel in Europe.

Oh, and have a great time.


----------



## jimf41 (Jun 5, 2015)

Quilter said:


> The 440K miles is difficult to swallow.   I can book coach for 120K.   What is it like flying overnight in coach?



Whoa, is this last minute travel? AA gets 100,000 miles RT to Italy with saver miles BC. Life is way too short for me to fly overseas in coach ever again.


----------



## Pompey Family (Jun 6, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> The month of September is an idea time to visit Italy. The tourist season will be at a very low period.



September isn't a low period at all. Yes, it's less busy than August however September is still busy, particularly with those who are no longer restricted to school holidays. Prior to having kids we usually travelled throughout Europe in September and it is still very much high season.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 6, 2015)

jimf41 said:


> Whoa, is this last minute travel? AA gets 100,000 miles RT to Italy with saver miles BC. Life is way too short for me to fly overseas in coach ever again.



Yes all the milesaver awards are gone.   September must be busy enough because of the weather.   We have 9/24-10/1 reserved.   I have a reservation DTW/VCE/DTW on hold with my AA miles and a reservation DTW/MIL/VCE/DTW on hold in DD's account.   Both of those are Business Class and the best schedule possible.   I'm thinking of holding one in Business and one in coach and think about it a few days.   The hold goes until 6/10.   Even with the Anytime awards it was difficult to find a good schedule.   Many of them had changes of airports in either New York or London which I'm trying to avoid.    

We didn't think to plan this trip any earlier this year.   Our concentration was focused on getting Anna ready to go.  After getting married at the end of Dec. she had to wait until May for her Visa.   She's been living with us and going thru paperwork while SIL has had a couple deployments.   She's now there setting up their apartment (pictures look wonderful!) and he gets back in a few days!   Finally!!!   They've booked a cruise for his upcoming leave.


----------



## elaine (Jun 6, 2015)

for flying into VCE, I recommend Holiday Inn Crown Plaza. IT has airport shuttle and really close to train station. SIL has stayed there and really liked it. Also, all the comforts of US hotel, good beds, etc. for your 1st night.  To ave miles, I recommend flying home in coach, if it is a day flight--not much different than a longish flight in the US. For the overnight, that is where I would spend the miles for business. We never fly business to Europe, as we are always flying a family of 6 over--and it is a fairly miserable night in coach--I get no sleep.
MXP is easy to get to/from the train station/city center on the airport bus, which comes every 20 minutes--surf the web or pm me if you decide to fly into/out MXP and I will give you step by step directions. 
Another option that you might consider if it is less miles is Zurich--it's an easy 3.5 hr nice train ride from Zurich to Milan--beautiful also. I have done it. I can give you tips for Zurich, if you go that route. good luck. Elaine


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 6, 2015)

Even if you only value miles at a penny each (and many value them higher), 440k points is $4400 worth of points.  Ouch.

Is there ANYWHERE in Europe you can fly with saver awards?  Then take a train or flight to Italy?

I find flying overnight to be miserable whether I'm in Coach or First, but First is definitely less miserable.  I'm not sure if it's 320k miles ($3200+) less miserable, though.


----------



## Passepartout (Jun 6, 2015)

We find that we can upgrade to 'Economy Comfort' and get a bit more room and a bit more recline to make those long-hauls more bearable for around $100. Beats the upgrade cost to Business or FC.


----------



## elaine (Jun 6, 2015)

I just looked at the possible routes--I use AA/US to Europe on miles a lot. Almost all routes do not have Business for lower miles, so in your case, if you don't want to burn tons of miles, I would suck it up fly coach. Here are some suggestions that you might not have considered:
Fly from DTW-PHL-ZRH for 30K in coach. It's a 332, so you can get a window/aisle--which won't be great, but certainly not awful. And, if you can upgrade for a few $$ to comfort class, do that. I would stay at a Zurich hotel--we like the Airport Renaissance (easy, safe #10 tram ride straight to hotel)--as you have M points (and maybe gold), request early check-in and get to hotel and crash for a few hours. Then, you can hop a train to Milan the next AM--there is one every hour, nice train, great scenery. Or you can stopover in the Lake district---it is gorgeous! Buy your train ticket in advance for very good prices (should be under $100 PP). Then once at Milan, hop a train to towards V (less than 1 hr ride--buy ticket once you get to Milan--no need for advance ticket). One the return, fly out of Milan (LIN)-LHR-PHL-DTW for 30K miles. 
Another option is to fly into any destination that has a low cost flight to either VCE or Milan (MXP or LIN).
This is my "max miles plan"--we do all kinds of crazy things to fly for low miles--but I'd rather get 2 or even 3 trips vs. burning miles. good luck! Elaine


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 6, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> We find that we can upgrade to 'Economy Comfort' and get a bit more room and a bit more recline to make those long-hauls more bearable for around $100. Beats the upgrade cost to Business or FC.



AA does not permit upgrades when using coach awards.


----------



## puppymommo (Jun 6, 2015)

*International Expo Milan*

Now through October 31 you may like to visit the International Expo in Milan. 
http://www.expo2015.org/en

It is not actually in Milan but outside the city. DD went there last month and had a hard time finding out how to get to it, so once they got there they didn't have much time. So if you go, get that figured out in advance.

Apparently not all the residents of Milan are happy with the expo and were unhelpful about how to get there.


----------



## ilene13 (Jun 6, 2015)

A few years ago we flew in and out of Milan on Air Atalia business class.  It was a USAir partner.  It was fabulous. We did not stay in Milan, we went directly to Venice where we stayed at the Gritti Palace.  It's fantastic.  From there we went to Florence, picked up a car and did the Italian and French Rivieras.  From Nice we flew back to Milan and then home.  We flew to Spain on USAir this past September, business class for 200,000 miles.  I booked the tickets 320 days out.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 7, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> Even if you only value miles at a penny each (and many value them higher), 440k points is $4400 worth of points.  Ouch.
> 
> Is there ANYWHERE in Europe you can fly with saver awards?  Then take a train or flight to Italy?
> 
> I find flying overnight to be miserable whether I'm in Coach or First, but First is definitely less miserable.  I'm not sure if it's 320k miles ($3200+) less miserable, though.



Everyone has had great suggestions.   I've looked at Lake Como and the Expo.   Interesting and beautiful.   However, we're working between DH's schedule and DD's schedule.   Have rescheduled to mid-Sept. using miles for Business on flight over and Milesaver coach for the return.   Still 310K miles 

Michael you had a great suggestion but I have yet to find a route for Milesaver in Business in Sept.   I even tried cutting out the DTW and going out of a large hub NYC, MIA or BOS.   Got an idea for Europe airport?


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 8, 2015)

Sorry, no specific suggestions.  It's more difficult when you don't have a very flexible schedule and/or aren't booking well in advance.

When we're planning out our airfare, it's not uncommon for me to spend several hours or even half a day researching options.  Whichever airline you're using, try to figure out what the major partner hubs are, and try to work with or through those cities.  For instance, if you're using AA miles, look at OneWorld's web site for their interactive map, where you can pretty easily see what connecting cities are common between your airport and your intended destination.


----------



## tmcasey (Jun 8, 2015)

Hi -
I was just in Venice two weeks ago.  I arrived in the evening, so I spent the first night at the Marriott Courtyard near the airport.  

Nice, clean hotel with a friendly staff. They do have a free shuttle service. I would recommend it, if you need a hotel near the airport.

I then spent 5 nights at an apartment in the city of Venice.  Venice is a beautiful city and I very much enjoyed my trip but 3 nights in the city would have been fine.

Tami


----------



## Quilter (Jun 9, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> Sorry, no specific suggestions.  It's more difficult when you don't have a very flexible schedule and/or aren't booking well in advance.
> 
> When we're planning out our airfare, it's not uncommon for me to spend several hours or even half a day researching options.  Whichever airline you're using, try to figure out what the major partner hubs are, and try to work with or through those cities.  For instance, if you're using AA miles, look at OneWorld's web site for their interactive map, where you can pretty easily see what connecting cities are common between your airport and your intended destination.



Yes, I usually do the hours of searching and calling at 2 a.m. to find better options.   Thanks for the interactive map suggestion.   I'll give it a try.   



tmcasey said:


> Hi -
> I was just in Venice two weeks ago.  I arrived in the evening, so I spent the first night at the Marriott Courtyard near the airport.
> 
> Nice, clean hotel with a friendly staff. They do have a free shuttle service. I would recommend it, if you need a hotel near the airport.
> ...



Thank you for the suggestion.   I'll keep it in mind if we decide to spend any time there.   We plan to fly out of Venice so we'll stay with DD near Vicenza until last day.   Depending on the flights I find we may or may not stay the night in Venice.   We can save it for another trip.


----------



## OregonBorder (Jun 9, 2015)

*Renaissance*

We stayed here last October for 5 nights using the 5 for 4 platinum option. The weather was terrible, lost power at hotel, road washed out, was a mess. One thing I will tell you is that this is a remote location. Barga is pretty close, but other than that you are at least 45 minutes to most anything including Lucca. Nice pool and view, so if you are looking for relaxation great. If you want accessibility it is not so good. We flew in and out of Pisa as we were doing more travel in Tuscany area. Lucca to Florence is easy train ride. Stayed at the AC in Florence.


----------



## RichardL (Jun 9, 2015)

*Try an airline Point Consultant*

Just did a trip to Italy.  I did not in the worse way want to try a crash course on airline points.  In prior years, I found my points where spread thru several airlines and credit cards; that the airlines had blackout dates, which they denied saying all seats were all ready booked(ha ha), I just paid cash.  This year I got the name of 3 airline consultants from the Million Mile Traveler.  I prepare a list of all my credit cards and airline club info and gave it to the consultant and said go for it.   It worked out for 45K points we flew from NYC to Rome on Virgin Airlines, but booked it through Singapore Airline club which I was asked to joined, and I utilized my credit card points that transferred 1 for 1.

Stayed in Venice, and arrived by train.  For my taste Venice is a must and you should spend 2 nights at a minimum.  Find a friend who has Westin Star Points and look into cash and points.  I found in other cities Hilton Honors often offered cash and points, and that saved big time.  Marriott does a BS cash and points, meaning use points for 3 nights and if out of points pay extra nights in cash.  Instead of true points and cash which offers you a huge point reduction for perhaps $100 cash.

You will have a great time in Italy, no matter where you visit.


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 9, 2015)

RichardL said:


> Stayed in Venice, and arrived by train.  For my taste Venice is a must and you should spend 2 nights at a minimum.  Find a friend who has Westin Star Points and look into cash and points.  I found in other cities Hilton Honors often offered cash and points, and that saved big time.  Marriott does a BS cash and points, meaning use points for 3 nights and if out of points pay extra nights in cash.  Instead of true points and cash which offers you a huge point reduction for perhaps $100 cash.
> 
> You will have a great time in Italy, no matter where you visit.


We used points for a stay at the Hotel Danieli in Venice, and (as a Starwood Gold) got a FABULOUS upgrade.  Absolutely incredible hotel and an amazing city.  Europe is definitely a place where using points (or cash & points) is usually a great value.

Totally agree about having a great time anywhere in Italy.  And great food!


----------



## Quilter (Jun 9, 2015)

RichardL said:


> Just did a trip to Italy.  I did not in the worse way want to try a crash course on airline points.  In prior years, I found my points where spread thru several airlines and credit cards; that the airlines had blackout dates, which they denied saying all seats were all ready booked(ha ha), I just paid cash.  This year I got the name of 3 airline consultants from the Million Mile Traveler.  I prepare a list of all my credit cards and airline club info and gave it to the consultant and said go for it.   It worked out for 45K points we flew from NYC to Rome on Virgin Airlines, but booked it through Singapore Airline club which I was asked to joined, and I utilized my credit card points that transferred 1 for 1.
> 
> Stayed in Venice, and arrived by train.  For my taste Venice is a must and you should spend 2 nights at a minimum.  Find a friend who has Westin Star Points and look into cash and points.  I found in other cities Hilton Honors often offered cash and points, and that saved big time.  Marriott does a BS cash and points, meaning use points for 3 nights and if out of points pay extra nights in cash.  Instead of true points and cash which offers you a huge point reduction for perhaps $100 cash.
> 
> You will have a great time in Italy, no matter where you visit.



Thank you.   Do you mean Million Mile Secrets?


----------



## Quilter (Jun 9, 2015)

OregonBorder said:


> We stayed here last October for 5 nights using the 5 for 4 platinum option. The weather was terrible, lost power at hotel, road washed out, was a mess. One thing I will tell you is that this is a remote location. Barga is pretty close, but other than that you are at least 45 minutes to most anything including Lucca. Nice pool and view, so if you are looking for relaxation great. If you want accessibility it is not so good. We flew in and out of Pisa as we were doing more travel in Tuscany area. Lucca to Florence is easy train ride. Stayed at the AC in Florence.



Did you use the hotel shuttle to train station at Barga?   

We're really not sure we want to extensively travel around.    We've been to Capri, Rome and Florence on another trip. This is our first trip after thinking we had no interest in traveling again.   It is primarily to visit our DD and SIL and share a bit of Italy with them. I have 2 (5 day) Cat. 6 certificates so they can have a room and we can have one.   They will be there 1-2 years so I'm expecting we'll go back next year (when we can make arrangements well ahead of time).


----------



## NboroGirl (Jun 9, 2015)

One hint when trying to use airline points (or even trying to get cheap airfare)...  

The airlines only have so many seats at the super-saver prices.  If you request more tickets than they have seats at that price, you get ZERO at that price.  For example, if they have 3 seats left at the Saver rate and you request 4, then you're out of luck.  Try searching for fewer seats than you need.  Try searching for 2 seats instead of 3, or one seat instead of two.  You might find one or two of you can get the Saver rate, and the other seat(s) will cost you more. It's better than NO seats at the Saver rate.


----------



## Passepartout (Jun 9, 2015)

When flying into Florence, We've found that flying into Pisa is waaay cheaper, and the train from the Pisa airport goes directly into the Florence train station- or the other way to Venice.


----------



## mrmarty91 (Jun 11, 2015)

We stayed at this hotel last October also. However, for us the weather was beautiful.  The hotel is very nice but is out of the way.  We took the train to Florence and rented a car there and drove to the hotel.  From the hotel we drove to Lucca, Pisa and Cinque Terre (all different days).

There is a cooking school at the hotel that other guests we talked to enjoyed.

Also, if you plan on eating in Barga make sure you make reservations.  We had a tough time finding a place to eat one night when we went in without a reservation.


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 11, 2015)

Your hotel selection looks wonderful...and its near the Hill Towns where you cant take a car...certainly worth seeing if you're ok with walking up and down the hills.  Distances always look less on a map than in real life.  It's a big trip from the Venice area...and also to the Milan area unless you use trains.  I would get a car though for shorter drives.  Florence is driveable from there...but stay at least 3 nites if you go...highly recommend the Westin Excelsior where they upgraded us to a terrace suite facing the Arno river...used SPG points.

If you haven't been to Italy before you need to see Venice We stayed in the Danieli too and they upgraded us to a 1 bdrm suite facing the canal and gondolas...on SPG pts too.  Lake Como (Villa D'Este hotel) is a real escape for 3 nights.  We stayed 7 nights in Milan at the Boscola (Marriott)...it was too long and so modern it was uncomfortable, but the location was great.  

We just got back June 22 from a week in Rome (at Westin Excelsior SPG pts) took the train to Milan for the week mentioned above...300km an hour!  About 4 hours.  Couldn't get Air Canada with UA points biz class so used AA points to fly British Airways biz to Rome via London and returned from Milan to Toronto via London.  We found BA much easier to get than AA but the change of planes added to an already long flying day.  Not wild about BA biz seats...one flies backwards...but way way better Han economy.

We had two very large pieces of luggage and I told the Westin Excelsior Roma concierge we were concerned about finding the right train in Italian and there was a bus strike that day so no taxis.  He got one of his assistants to take us there and put us and the luggage right on the car...it was wonderful service.  Gave him 50€.

Enjoy...you'll be back...save the lower part (Rome and Amalfi) for another trip.  I gained 10 lbs over the 2 weeks and did more walking than I have done in years.  The food is so good..wine so cheap...so much to see.

Brian

PS...no way would I spend 440k FF miles for those flights...pay cash and earn points.


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 11, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> PS...no way would I spend 440k FF miles for those flights...pay cash and earn points.


But those are First Class tickets, and paying cash for First Class would be MUCH higher than that.  Coach tickets were something like 120k (for two), which would have been my (reluctant) choice, if it were me.


----------



## Bunk (Jun 12, 2015)

My wife and I spent two nights at Il Ciocco in the second week of October after spending 3 nights in Florence.  We then went on to spend five nights in Venice.  The weather was perfect when we were in Italy.  Sunny and no rain.

We enjoyed Il Ciocco.  The views are amazing.  You're on a mountaintop and while we were eating breakfast, the fog would burn off and reveal the valley and the town of Barga.    The hotel was a nice place for us to relax after running ourselves ragged in Florence.

We loved the concierge's restaurant recommendations.  We ate at local, small restaurants and were very happy with the meals.

Having said that, I caution that a car with a GPS is a necessity.  If you don't have a car, don't go.  I don't think the train schedule is great and I'm not sure how inexpensive and convenient cabs are in the area.  I remember guests telling me that they wish they had rented a car.  And get the GPS. It's not an easy place to find without the GPS.  We drove to Lucca one day.  It was an easy ride of about an hour or less.  Well worth visiting.  You can also drive to Pisa.  In my opinion, Florence is much too far away, and the ride is much too difficult, to use this hotel as a base.

My bottom line:  If you are looking for a place to spend a night or two to recharge your batteries and if you have a car with a GPS, I recommend Il Ciocco.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 12, 2015)

Thanks everyone for all the tips.   I've looked at trying most every one of them.   



pwrshift said:


> Your hotel selection looks wonderful...and its near the Hill Towns where you cant take a car...   I've driven to the hill towns in France.   Is it more difficult driving to the hill towns in Italy?
> 
> We found BA much easier to get than AA but the change of planes added to an already long flying day.  Not wild about BA biz seats...one flies backwards...but way way better Han economy.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all your thoughts Brian.   It was nice to read about the trip you just made. 



MichaelColey said:


> But those are First Class tickets, and paying cash for First Class would be MUCH higher than that.  Coach tickets were something like 120k (for two), which would have been my (reluctant) choice, if it were me.



I decided to try the mix of Business going and Coach return like suggested earlier in the thread.   Fortunately I got the hold before flights disappeared.   I just tried looking again at the return to get Milesaver awards.   The AA website gives me 6 options that leaves VCE at 11:20 p.m., would need an overnight in London and change of airports.   But when I click on them I get a notice saying the flight I selected is no longer available.    

We're paying 15K more for each ticket but there's no overnight and schedule is an easy VCE/PHL/DTW.  

If I keep the current reservations we'll land in MIL the morning before check-in.  I've considered renting a car and going part way to the hotel to someplace charming to stay for the night.   Have no idea where that would be but the drive must be lovely. . .right?


----------



## elaine (Jun 13, 2015)

from Milan, take the bus to city center and then hop on any train to Verona--1 hr or so away, and spend the night there. Or rent a car and drive there. It's on the way to Venice. There might also be a train direct from the airport--but the bus is 7 euros and leaves every 20 minutes. You can also take the train or drive to Sirmione on Lake Garda.  We passed it on the train and it looked lovely.


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 14, 2015)

I found the BA fees excessive too, especially with the change of planes in London...they even charge to select seats before 24 hours of flight day.  I wanted to try BA and probably won't again unless I'm just going to London, but AC has about 5 flights a day and pretty good biz class availability using UA miles.

Apparently BA has had a dramatic rise in FF miles to go anywhere...don't know how that affects partner flights.  Wonder I hat was to remove some of the extra fees?

Biz class on BA intracoastal-Europe flights, usually 319, 320, 321 metal, is a joke.  They are simply economy seats with a removable cover on the middle seat.  Rarely do you land and take off at the same terminal at LHR,...it's so big you have to allow a lot of time to catch the train over to get your next flight at the other terminals...a huge amount of walking too.  Noticed that everyone gets a full meal on BA intra-Europe...and they started at the back leaving biz class with just what's left.  Same meal but I assume only biz gets free booze.  

On the international flights the BA service is quite nice and food/booze plentiful.  Flying backwards didn't bother me but felt strange at first.  In the middle of biz class they are set up for couples where sleeping is almost like sleeping on a double bed.  Hated the fact if you're on window sides you have to step over someone sleeping to go to the washroom.  Weird configuration.

Brian


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 14, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> I found the BA fees excessive too, especially with the change of planes in London...they even charge to select seats before 24 hours of flight day.



BA is known for their fuel and other charges. These fees make award travel on BA expensive, especially for biz.



> Apparently BA has had a dramatic rise in FF miles to go anywhere...don't know how that affects partner flights.  Wonder I hat was to remove some of the extra fees?



BA Avios changes are a mixed bag, though mostly bad for those who use it on BA. No change for using Avios on partners. I use my Avios (earned via the Chase credit card) for flights to Hawaii on AA. Just 12,500 Avios one-way, and even with the recent change of earning just 1 Avios per $1 (as opposed to the previous 1.25) it's still better than most other options.



> Biz class on BA intracoastal-Europe flights, usually 319, 320, 321 metal, is a joke.  They are simply economy seats with a removable cover on the middle seat.



Yeah, I've done this and it is silly. However, it's better than many and I do value an empty seat next to me when traveling alone.



> Noticed that everyone gets a full meal on BA intra-Europe...and they started at the back leaving biz class with just what's left.  Same meal but I assume only biz gets free booze.



From what I've gathered, many flights alternate front-back and back-front. You must have been on a flight that went back-front. There are a lot of posts about this sort of thing at FlyerTalk...and lots of advice re where to sit on a particular flight if you want choice of meal.



> On the international flights the BA service is quite nice and food/booze plentiful.  Flying backwards didn't bother me but felt strange at first.  In the middle of biz class they are set up for couples where sleeping is almost like sleeping on a double bed.  Hated the fact if you're on window sides you have to step over someone sleeping to go to the washroom.  Weird configuration.



I haven't flown BA business long-haul, but everyone I know considers it (and the service) amongst the best. If it wasn't for the BA surcharges, I'd be flying it as my first choice to Europe.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 15, 2015)

I have searching sickness.   Found email from DD this morning that maybe the previous weekend would be better dates.    So. . .I began looking for new reservations.   Got the hotel rooms.  This time I overlapped the two 5 night reservations.   We will check-in, then 2 nights later the other room reservation begins so they would just come for the weekend.   We'll take their last 2 nights and meet them back in Vicenza.   SIL only gets weekend off and even that won't be determined until close to the dates.  Then I went to aa.com and held this:

Milesaver coach outbound. Crummy itinerary DTW/CLT/LHR/MIL. DO NOT like CLT. Lovely little airport but this would be Sept. and lots of weather goes through there. I seem to get stuck most every time I go through CLT. 4 hour layover in LHR but CLT could seriously mess with that.  

UA has a better itinerary also for milesaver coach.   I goofed and let UA miles expire so I'd have to pay $300 each of our 50K to be reinstated.   We'd then have 20K(each) leftover.   But it's still coach.  It's also on Lufthansa metal.   (got ideas about that and comfort?)

Return hold is milesaver Business on AA VCE/LHR/DFW/DTW. Have to overnight in hotel in DFW. How's that for an itinerary? But it's milesaver. 

Spent forever on phone today with Iberia.   She found BOS/MAD/MIL in Business and I was under the mistaken notion that I could turn in UR points for Iberia.   Found out later that I couldn't.   Called AA (another stinking long call) to see if they could book it and the agent couldn't see it, that they don't get all the possible availability.   Ugh!!!!   

I also have a thread going on flyertalk SQ forum.  http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sing...gram-can-i-use-ff-dtw-milan.html#post24971010    Tried SQ.   Didn't come up with anything yet.   1/2 hour hold for a call this morning and more time tonight online.

Seriously, anyone got an idea how to get the seats on Iberia?


----------



## Quilter (Jun 15, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> I found the BA fees excessive too, especially with the change of planes in London...they even charge to select seats before 24 hours of flight day.  I wanted to try BA and probably won't again unless I'm just going to London, but AC has about 5 flights a day and pretty good biz class availability using UA miles.
> Brian



Sent DH email last night asking him to open AC, BA, & KA accounts.  Got the information this morning when I woke up. 

Went to AC and was so excited to find a good itinerary for the outbound using UA and Scandinavian Air.   UR points don't transfer to AC so I went to UA.   It doesn't show the availability.    again


----------



## Quilter (Jun 15, 2015)

I thinking I'm wising up more on this.   

As mentioned, I have found BOS/MAD/MIL on Iberia in Business Milesaver.   Would have to get to Boston on another tix.   I have found DTW/ORD/COP/MIL business 90K for 2 tix on AC.  Overnight flight is on Scandinavian Air.   

Would you use Iberia or Scandinavian?

If I order a MR certificate I had have miles dropped into either account.


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 15, 2015)

I don't know anything about Scandinavian, but I quit flying Iberia after the way they mishandled us on a flight a couple years ago.

We were in the Canary Islands, heading to Miami for the next part of an extended vacation.  We had an award ticket booked from Tenerife to Madrid to Miami (all in coach).  We had a 3 hour layover booked.  They changed the flights on us so that we only had a 45 minute layover in Madrid.  I called to try to get it changed to a more comfortable layover but they refused, saying it was within the recommended time allowed and that we wouldn't have any problems.

On the day of departure, our Tenerife to Madrid flight was delayed.  They made up a little time in the air, but we landed at one end of the Madrid airport and our departing flight was at the opposite end.  With three little ones in tow, we RAN through the airport, taking less than 15 minutes to cover what the signs said was a 24 minute walk.

We arrived at the gate 10 minutes before departure, but they had already released our seats and refused to let us board.

They rebooked us on a connecting flight through Lima, Peru, then on to Miami.  They couldn't even book us together.  We were scattered throughout the plane (and the kids were 2, 7 and 9 at the time).  One passenger exchanged seats so that my wife could sit by our 2 year old.

We ended up spending 40 hours traveling that "day", and then had to drive from Miami to Orlando once we arrived.  (And the transmission went out on the rental car, as we pulled into the resort!)  Our luggage didn't show up for another 3 days.

Repeated attempts to get Iberia to compensate us for the numerous problems was an exercise in futility.  I never even got a response from them.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 17, 2015)

Still only have holds that are less than ideal.   AA is so convenient because of the holds.

Went to move miles to AC but the good flight had disappeared.   Last night after Owner Services was closed I found more flights on AC and also United.   Will call this morning but here's my problem:  How long for miles to transfer and will I be able to still find flights with that airline?   I know this has a been a prior problem with others.  

Wondering how useful Expert Flyer is for this?   Anyone successfully use it?


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 18, 2015)

Why open an Aeroplan account?  Can't you just use UA miles through a UA rep to book on AC for you?  Otherwise you may be leaving miles on different accts that  might never get used.  I found it almost impossible to get direct flights to most Europe locations on the AC site (except London and Germany) but could often get them by, in advance, using the slowpoke ANA site and telling the UA rep what to look for.

It's all so frustrating, but what you'd have to pay to buy biz class makes it worthwhile.

I think you can pay a fee to MR to get the miles there fast, but I've found they get there quick anyways without the fee.

Brian



Quilter said:


> Still only have holds that are less than ideal.   AA is so convenient because of the holds.
> 
> Went to move miles to AC but the good flight had disappeared.   Last night after Owner Services was closed I found more flights on AC and also United.   Will call this morning but here's my problem:  How long for miles to transfer and will I be able to still find flights with that airline?   I know this has a been a prior problem with others.
> 
> Wondering how useful Expert Flyer is for this?   Anyone successfully use it?


----------



## Quilter (Jun 18, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> Why open an Aeroplan account?  Can't you just use UA miles through a UA rep to book on AC for you?  Otherwise you may be leaving miles on different accts that  might never get used.  I found it almost impossible to get direct flights to most Europe locations on the AC site (except London and Germany) but could often get them by, in advance, using the slowpoke ANA site and telling the UA rep what to look for.
> 
> It's all so frustrating, but what you'd have to pay to buy biz class makes it worthwhile.
> 
> ...



Brian I saw this after responding to your PM.   Thanks.   This is even more helpful.   I was wondering about having miles in so many different accounts.   

After the experience with Iberian and AA I thought it might be the same with AC and UA.   Now I have even more reason to get another travel package to take advantage of the current UA promotion.   

I asked if I could pay a fee to expedite miles to account and was told 3 times no.  (I'm persistent and tried same question on several reps, even MR).   

Just checked UA account.   Still no miles (it's been less than 24 hours).


----------



## Quilter (Jun 18, 2015)

RichardL said:


> Just did a trip to Italy.  I did not in the worse way want to try a crash course on airline points.  In prior years, I found my points where spread thru several airlines and credit cards; that the airlines had blackout dates, which they denied saying all seats were all ready booked(ha ha), I just paid cash.  This year I got the name of 3 airline consultants from the Million Mile Traveler.  I prepare a list of all my credit cards and airline club info and gave it to the consultant and said go for it.   It worked out for 45K points we flew from NYC to Rome on Virgin Airlines, but booked it through Singapore Airline club which I was asked to joined, and I utilized my credit card points that transferred 1 for 1.



I did contact Gary Leff from View from the Wing.   He's helped me several times over the years.   He's always been nice.  His fee is $150 per person if I turned it over to him.   I have already put so.o.o.o.o many hours and days into this search that I keep thinking I'm almost done.   Still considering letting Gary or The Points Guy take care of it if I just can't make it work.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 18, 2015)

*Would you pay the fees?*

Made another AA hold tonight.   Still no UA miles in my account.

Tonight I found 2 DTW-DCA-IAD-LHR-MXP (Business Milesaver) and VCE-LGW (change/airports/spend night at London airport, probably with points) next day LHR-PHL-DTW (First Milesaver).   112,500 miles, $186 taxes $856 fees because of BA metal.   

We have another hold for the return VCE-PHL-DTW Anytime Business 110K miles each $98.

I'm also waiting for United miles to get deposited to my account because I can see a Business saver award EWR-DUS-MIL.  We'd have to find our own way DTW-EWR because there is no UA award seats available.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> I don't know anything about Scandinavian, but I quit flying Iberia after the way they mishandled us on a flight a couple years ago.
> 
> . . .
> 
> Repeated attempts to get Iberia to compensate us for the numerous problems was an exercise in futility.  I never even got a response from them.



Michael I read your story to DH tonight.   Said I didn't want to look at Iberia after reading this.


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 19, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Michael I read your story to DH tonight.   Said I didn't want to look at Iberia after reading this.




Horror stories exist for every airline.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## jimf41 (Jun 19, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Horror stories exist for every airline.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Very true, We've flown Iberia twice in coach. Once RT from LHR-AGP paid fare and once one way NAP-MAD on miles. No problem either trip. When I select or more accurately de-select and airline for travel it's to do with their safety record not any individual review.

The two Marriott resorts that are my favorites are MFC and MPB. There are TUG and Tripadvisor reviews of both that are absolutely horrible.


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 19, 2015)

Excellent point, Ken. And I probably would fly Iberia again if there were no better choice.


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 19, 2015)

MichaelColey said:


> Excellent point, Ken. And I probably would fly Iberia again if there were no better choice.




Like your experience with Iberia, Delta ticketed me via CDG on Air France with just a 45 minute connection. When I questioned it they said it was a legal connection. My ticket was changed day of flight, however, due to Delta delay out of LAX (though they made up the lost time). Anyway, when in CDG (which I now had a 4 hour connection) I asked AF customer service what is the minimum connection from an transatlantic flight to an EU AF flight...and was told not to accept anything less than 90 minutes. I've never connected in Madrid (though I have started and ended flights there...) but CDG is my least favorite airport in Europe and I will go out of my way to avoid it. The only exception would be if I ever decide to visit Paris (which isn't looking likely these days, even though I'd like to, due to personal reasons).

I'm sure you wouldn't accept an Iberia flight in future with just a 45 minute connection, either.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Quilter (Jun 21, 2015)

This is still consuming a considerable amount of my time.   It's down to selecting airlines and planes.

Can you join me on Travel Info forum:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1771219#post1771219


----------



## MichaelColey (Jun 22, 2015)

My general experience with airline miles is that the selection usually gets worse over time, and seldom gets better.  Don't spend too much time on it, or you'll wish you had booked some of the stuff that was originally available.

That said, I would be very reluctant to book first class at 4x the rate of coach (i.e. when you can get saver awards in coach but have to do higher awards in first).  I'd much rather have FOUR trips in coach than one in first.  Even 2x miles is sometimes tough to swallow.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks Michael.   I appreciate the input.   I've replied on the thread in Travel Info to keep the conversation in one place.


----------



## skyequeen (Jun 27, 2015)

*Il Ciocco is Wonderful But Out of the Way*

We stayed at Il Ciocco about 3 years ago for 5 nights after flying into Rome.  We picked up our car and drove - about 4-1/2 hours I think.  It is isolated in the middle of what was a hunting preserve and was already a conference facility before becoming a Marriott.  The owner comes and goes with a private helicopter - we could see the pad from our room as well as view the beautiful mountain valley the hotel sits in.  Bike racers come to this area and other sports types.  The little town of Barga close by is nice, Lucca a drive.  We spent a day at a winery and one touring an old villa each a good drive south.  Another in a vacation town north of Barga.  Nothing too exciting.  This is more seeing Italy as an Italian vs. a tourist.  We loved it as a prelude to a trip to Florence [AC hotel] and then a cruise out of Rome.  I wouldn't choose it unless you also have more touristy places to go before or after.  That said, this was my favorite hotel stay of all time.  Staff wonderful.  Lots of Europe-based Americans were there using Marriott Points.  Also an international medical conference with some U.S. attendees.  Excellent breakfast, nice people to talk to from around Europe, don't miss the Turkish bath in the free spa area.  BTW, make sure you take the farther exit from the last main road or you will drive through small mountain areas much longer than necessary.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 27, 2015)

skyequeen said:


> We stayed at Il Ciocco about 3 years ago for 5 nights after flying into Rome.  We picked up our car and drove - about 4-1/2 hours I think.  It is isolated in the middle of what was a hunting preserve and was already a conference facility before becoming a Marriott.  The owner comes and goes with a private helicopter - we could see the pad from our room as well as view the beautiful mountain valley the hotel sits in.  Bike racers come to this area and other sports types.  The little town of Barga close by is nice, Lucca a drive.  We spent a day at a winery and one touring an old villa each a good drive south.  Another in a vacation town north of Barga.  Nothing too exciting.  This is more seeing Italy as an Italian vs. a tourist.  We loved it as a prelude to a trip to Florence [AC hotel] and then a cruise out of Rome.  I wouldn't choose it unless you also have more touristy places to go before or after.  That said, this was my favorite hotel stay of all time.  Staff wonderful.  Lots of Europe-based Americans were there using Marriott Points.  Also an international medical conference with some U.S. attendees.  Excellent breakfast, nice people to talk to from around Europe, don't miss the Turkish bath in the free spa area.  BTW, make sure you take the farther exit from the last main road or you will drive through small mountain areas much longer than necessary.



This sounds perfect for us.   

Here's the current plan.   Please, anyone, share your thoughts.

We land at MXP in the morning.   Will take the advice to visit Lake Como.   Still looking at possibilities of where but we should be in Bellagio for lunch.  (1-1/2 hr.).

From there a drive back to Milan to stay at Park Hyatt (booked with UR points transferred to Hyatt).  We can take our time with breakfast and a some city walking before leaving Milan for Il Ciocco.  (3-1/2 hr.)  Plan to time it so we arrive before dark.  7 nights.

The small local towns are fine for us.   If our daughter wants us to visit Florence with her it will be her choice.   Florence will be a tough one.   We visited in 2009 after Capri.   Met our son Michael in Rome and took train to Florence.   Stayed at Westin.   Did a bike tour http://www.tuscany-biketours.com.  Ate at our most favorite restaurant in the world.  http://ristoranteilprofeta.vpsite.it/ENGLISH.html  It was a trip of dreams.  Anna may want to share all we have talked and laughed about over the years. 

From Il Cioco we drive to B & B south of Sirmione.  Day at B & B, day at Sirmione and drive to Vicenza.   Stay night with Anna.   Then 2 night stay at this charming spot north of Venice.  http://www.masodivilla.it/it/  Isn't it luscious? We may save Venice for the next trip.  Speculation it will be Mayish.  Fly out of VCE  after overnight in hotel in the morning.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 28, 2015)

It just gets better and better.

Found another flight MAD-CLT-DTW last night.   Changed our reservation.   Less layover than the MAD-PHL-DTW.  Last leg is in airbus instead of Embraer.    Weather doesn't effect (or is that affect) 320 like the smaller planes.   Got seats behind bulkhead again.   

The only real sticker for the flights is the DTW-YYZ-BOS on the outbound.   I like to multi-task.   Any chance for a Tugger gathering at YYZ on 9/7?   We have 2 hr 45 min layover in Toronto.   What's the airport like?  Can you arrange a meeting on the other side of security?


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 28, 2015)

Hi Suzzanne...Here are some tips that might be useful regarding Bellagio.

*Villa Serbelloni* Grand Hotel - Bellagio - Como Lake (Italy)

http://www.villaserbelloni.com/

This is a very old but wonderfully kept hotel resort in Bellagio .. we didn't stay there but they let us wander all over the resort to see if we might want to stay there at some future trip. It wasn't busy in late May when we were there but I suggest you book a room right now if interested as I'm sure it will be sold out in Sept. 

Other than the complex, what I liked most was that you didn't need a car to wander from the hotel to shops and eateries very nearby...really just out the gates.However, you can buy your Salvatore Ferragamo stuff at the hotel.

About the car trip...we hired a limo service for the day from Milan (500 euros) and I'm sure glad I did. The road is much like the Amalfi coast...very hilly and so narrow...drivers would never get to see the scenery. *(see attached picture)* In addition, Italians drivers are crazy.Just to get into the hotel you drive on a tiny one way road where there are people walking, shopping and dining - they get out of the way to let you pass. Fun. BTW you'll probably need an international drivers licence to rent a car there, if they ask for it (see AAA for one). I'd let Amex know too as they cover most of the insurance and will refund any insurance charges the car rental might force on you.

Bellagio is really like a suburb of Como, but it's a good driving hike around the lake to get there on narrow roads. There is a ferry boat service you can take to all the sights--and a gondola train to go to the top in Como. So even if you didn'tget in Serbelloni you could probably see it on one of the stops.

The top resort hotel is *Villa D'Este* in Lake Como. Wow. Expensive but memorable.We toured it too, and were most welcomed by the staff. Didn't want to leave. Even if you don't stay there, go see it.

http://www.villadeste.com/en/13/home.aspx

Another interesting place to see, and on the boat tour (or driving) is Como Villa Olmo ... they have entertainment there too.

http://www.grandimostrecomo.it/villa-olmo-en

Enjoy!
Brian
PS ... Will be in Williamsburg when you are at YYZ. Would have been nice.


----------



## Quilter (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks for the tips Brian.   I'm already looking for flights for next Spring.  After our lunches at Lake Como and Lake Garda we may want to stay longer on the next trip.   

BTW, what do you think about United's Business class on 777?   Some of the seats fly backwards.   I would definitely try for forward facing seats.   Reviews on Seat guru are not glowing.


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 28, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> BTW you'll probably need an international drivers licence to rent a car there, if they ask for it (see AAA for one). I'd let Amex know too as they cover most of the insurance and will refund any insurance charges the car rental might force on you.




Amex does not cover Italy. 

For example: https://www295.americanexpress.com/premium/car-rental-insurance-coverage/home.do



> Coverage is worldwide, except for vehicles rented in Australia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, and New Zealand.**




Sent from my iPad


----------



## Ken555 (Jun 28, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Will take the advice to visit Lake Como.   Still looking at possibilities of where but we should be in Bellagio for lunch.  (1-1/2 hr.).




Como is wonderful but from Milan the drive to Bellagio can be 1.5-2 hours each way. There are two main routes to Bellagio from west and east, so you might want to go on both to see more. But, plan on lots of driving. 

I stayed at this hotel and their restaurant was excellent (recent reviews are mixed, but then again online reviews are rarely universal with an opinion). It's just outside the center town of Bellagio and has fantastic views. We ate at other restaurants in Bellagio and thought at the time (about five years ago) the hotel restaurant really was the best. They specialize in fish from the lake, so it's all local. 

http://www.bellagiosilvio.com/ristorante-silvio.html


Sent from my iPad


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 28, 2015)

That's odd.  Maybe it's different in Canada Amex?  A month or so before leaving Canada for Rome, I called Amex Canada about Italy and they said I don't need insurance but if they insisted on payment Amex would credit my account for the charges.  I asked for a letter outlining that so I could show them if I rented, and they sent it to me...but I've misplaced it as I didn't rent a car.  It may turn up if I did into all my stuff from the trip.



Ken555 said:


> Amex does not cover Italy.
> 
> For example: https://www295.americanexpress.com/premium/car-rental-insurance-coverage/home.do
> 
> ...


----------



## pwrshift (Jun 28, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Thanks for the tips Brian. I'm already looking for flights for next Spring. After our lunches at Lake Como and Lake Garda we may want to stay longer on the next trip.
> 
> BTW, what do you think about United's Business class on 777? Some of the seats fly backwards. I would definitely try for forward facing seats. Reviews on Seat guru are not glowing.


 
 In spite of being a Silver UA member (thanks to Marriott) I haven't ever been on any UA flight but bank almost all my FF points there from Marriott as they are a partner with Air Canada...and AC miles seats are easier for UA to get them than I can with Aeroplan.

 My last flights were British Airways (777 and 747 except for LHR to Europe) and their BizClass seats sound similar to UA's...one person flying backwards and the other forward.  

 I prefer forward but my spouse said it didn't bother her going backwards.  Who knows...it might be safer in a crash to fly backwards.  It was nice to be able to talk face to face rather than the Air Canada biz seats.  Main problem was at night...it the person against the window on the next seat unit had to go to the washroom he/she had to step over my legs.  Same thing happens with the 'double beds' in the middle...those people have to step over someone to get out.

 Brian


----------



## Quilter (Jun 29, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Como is wonderful but from Milan the drive to Bellagio can be 1.5-2 hours each way. There are two main routes to Bellagio from west and east, so you might want to go on both to see more. But, plan on lots of driving.
> 
> I stayed at this hotel and their restaurant was excellent (recent reviews are mixed, but then again online reviews are rarely universal with an opinion). It's just outside the center town of Bellagio and has fantastic views. We ate at other restaurants in Bellagio and thought at the time (about five years ago) the hotel restaurant really was the best. They specialize in fish from the lake, so it's all local.
> 
> ...



Ok.  I looked to see if we could get milesaver the day before our departure so we could spend a day on Lake Como.  Nope.  Distance to Bellagio seems a bit too much for a day trip and then a drive to Barga.  Will have to save a longer trip to Lake Como for our next visit to Italy.  However, it looks like we can squeeze in a visit to Como for a few hours. 

If we go to Milan from airport we can check-in and do our Milan walking and enjoy hotel on day 1.   Next morning Como is about 45 mins. from Milan.  Get there by 11 a.m. for lunch.   Then take the funicular and call it a day.   

Went to mapquest for time from Como to Barga.  Get on the road to Il Ciocco by 3.  Mapquest says almost 4 hrs. to Barga.  Sunset is 7:40.   Want to drive up the hill to hotel before dark.  

I almost thought about scrapping Lake Como altogether.   If weather isn't conducive to this kind of schedule we will just put it off until Spring trip.  It looks like a place to spend 5 days.  Rick Steves has good youtube video for Bellagio and Varenna.


----------



## skyequeen (Jun 30, 2015)

When we stayed at Il Ciocco we were told the best airport to arrive in that part of Italy is Pisa.  If you don't have to stay in Milan you can look into Pisa, though Milan has great airfares.  We are currently planning a trip in spring 2016 to Northern Italy after a cruise.  We won't rent a car this time so my husband can enjoy the view more as a train passenger, especially when we go through the Alps to Switzerland.  It is about 35 minutes from Milan to Como by train and not necessary to drive there.  Then you can ferry around the lake to places like Bellagio. I was last there 40 years ago by car staying in Bellagio and the drive to Como wasn't worth it for a day trip.  You can also take the train to Lugano, SW in the mountains for a day trip (40 mins.) from Milan. So many possibilities it makes planning more difficult.


----------



## Quilter (Jul 4, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> Hi Suzzanne...Here are some tips that might be useful regarding Bellagio.
> 
> *Villa Serbelloni* Grand Hotel - Bellagio - Como Lake (Italy)
> 
> ...



DD has said it's ok to begin our search for another trip in May.  She knows I like to plan early to get rooms and seats with points/miles.   I have a hold on AA for Business using 50K miles DTW-VCE.   Itinerary is good.   AA Business on 77W has 4 seats across is better than UA's with 8 seats across.  Plan to spend more time in VCE in the Spring since we won't be seeing much of it in Sept.  Have looked at hotel suggestions.  We don't have many spg points.   Karen Brown also has some cute places in her book.   

In the meantime, just to make sure we have something, I have reserved 5 nights at Boscolo Venezia with MR.  It's a Cat. 9 so I would have to upgrade my Cat. 6 certificate.    Any comments?   Is it worth the points?   Reviews on trip advisor look good.   

Then we think we'd like to return for a longer stay in Lake Como.   How many days should we consider?   

Can't look at flights out of Milan yet because it's over 331 days away.


----------



## Quilter (Jul 4, 2015)

skyequeen said:


> When we stayed at Il Ciocco we were told the best airport to arrive in that part of Italy is Pisa.  If you don't have to stay in Milan you can look into Pisa, though Milan has great airfares.  We are currently planning a trip in spring 2016 to Northern Italy after a cruise.  We won't rent a car this time so my husband can enjoy the view more as a train passenger, especially when we go through the Alps to Switzerland.  It is about 35 minutes from Milan to Como by train and not necessary to drive there.  Then you can ferry around the lake to places like Bellagio. I was last there 40 years ago by car staying in Bellagio and the drive to Como wasn't worth it for a day trip.  You can also take the train to Lugano, SW in the mountains for a day trip (40 mins.) from Milan. So many possibilities it makes planning more difficult.



Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread.   Maybe it was you.  I did search for seats to Pisa and didn't find them with milesaver.   By the time I got better at the search I was looking for airports out of the States with the best connections.   Then trying to get from DTW to the main departure.   Probably forgot about Pisa along the way.   Anyway, we are now booked and locked into arriving in MXP.   I can make changes as long as departure and arrival airports remain the same.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 7, 2015)

Quilter said:


> In the meantime, just to make sure we have something, I have reserved 5 nights at Boscolo Venezia with MR.  It's a Cat. 9 so I would have to upgrade my Cat. 6 certificate.    Any comments?   Is it worth the points?   Reviews on trip advisor look good.
> 
> Then we think we'd like to return for a longer stay in Lake Como.   How many days should we consider?
> 
> .



You might want to see if it is a 'too modern' hotel.  The reason is that I stayed in the Milan Boscolo mid May and found it much too modern for my tastes...uncomfortable chairs, little bathroom privacy, poor views, small rooms, noisy halls.  I think it was a cat 6 when I booked my week there and the location in Milan was perfect.  The Venice one might be entirely different, but check it out...Tripadvisor reviews might help.

Como is very nice but if you like active holidays it might be a little 'sleepy' for you for a lengthy visit.  The lake was very nice, but not really extra special compared to what we have in many places of North Anerica.

Brian


----------



## Quilter (Jul 8, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> You might want to see if it is a 'too modern' hotel.  The reason is that I stayed in the Milan Boscolo mid May and found it much too modern for my tastes...uncomfortable chairs, little bathroom privacy, poor views, small rooms, noisy halls.  I think it was a cat 6 when I booked my week there and the location in Milan was perfect.  The Venice one might be entirely different, but check it out...Tripadvisor reviews might help.
> 
> Como is very nice but if you like active holidays it might be a little 'sleepy' for you for a lengthy visit.  The lake was very nice, but not really extra special compared to what we have in many places of North Anerica.
> 
> Brian



Thanks Brian for rescuing me from "page 2".

The Boscolo looks like comfortable mix of updating and olde world:  http://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...bta&scid=b661a3c4-9c47-48c8-9e13-75b66089dd79

I even like that it's out of the way.   Seems like good location from airport.

The activity I like on holiday are walking, eating (I'm a foodie), and watching.   The boat rides around the lake look lovely.   Sitting in the cafes looks lovely.   

You're right about the lake option right close to home.   Remember, I come from "Pure Michigan".   Giving up an opportunity to visit Bay Harbor to go to Italy.  http://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...harbor-renaissance-lake-michigan-golf-resort/ Now Lake Michigan is a lake!  

The trip to Italy is all about staying connected to our daughter.  

How many nights would you suggest for Lake Como?  Milan?


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 8, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> Como is very nice but if you like active holidays it might be a little 'sleepy' for you for a lengthy visit.  The lake was very nice, but not really extra special compared to what we have in many places of North Anerica.




What?!?! Nothing in NA matches the history of the Lake Como region. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Como


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Quilter (Jul 8, 2015)

Ken,

The Chippewa would probably not agree with you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torch_Lake_(Antrim_County,_Michigan)

Then there's others who would also disagree:

http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/what-are-the-worlds-most-beautiful-lakes,11407/

It's so hard to pick favorites.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 8, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Ken,
> 
> The Chippewa would probably not agree with you:
> 
> ...




Amusing, especially since I didn't say Lake Como itself is the most beautiful, there are many places I need to visit, and I'm easily pleased. The combination of Italian history, buildings, and the lake resulted in an absolutely wonderful trip which I am uncertain could be replicated in North America. But, whatever.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Quilter (Jul 8, 2015)

I am looking forward to the charm that was shown in the Rick Steves video. 

Thinking about this thread today I was mentally comparing the different charms of Torch Lake and Lake Como.   It's not that one is better, it's diverse.  

The blue of Torch Lake is jaw dropping gorgeous!   We stayed in a small town with one main street, general store, Italian restaurant, bakery, art and Up North hometown charm.   Stayed in a B & B so we could walk everyday to the water in a "gone to the lake" trance. 

I gather the fjord-like geography and hillside villages of Lake Como will give it's own lake trance.


----------



## momeason (Jul 8, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Trains are excellent in Italy. You may find other flight options by flying into Milan instead, as its a larger airport. It's also only a few hour train ride, if that, from Milan. I'd recommend a few days around Lake Como - I did this after flying to Milan and it was a great start for a trip.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Agree with above. Venice is lovely but the flights are very expensive and the airport is not in Venice proper. If you do fly into Venice, I can recommend a very nice B and B that is close to the sight s and very reasonable.


----------



## momeason (Jul 8, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> Trains are excellent in Italy. You may find other flight options by flying into Milan instead, as its a larger airport. It's also only a few hour train ride, if that, from Milan. I'd recommend a few days around Lake Como - I did this after flying to Milan and it was a great start for a trip.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Agree with above. Venice is lovely but the flights are very expensive and the airport is not in Venice proper. If you do fly into Venice, I can recommend a very nice B and B that is close to the sights and very reasonable.


----------



## Quilter (Jul 9, 2015)

Please do tell the B and B


----------



## Quilter (Jul 15, 2015)

Waking this thread up to update that besides the trip in Sept. I've gotten my trip booked in May/June.   

AA on the outbound to VCE.   The outbound was easy.   The return took a while as I waited for ff seats to load online.   Then I waffled on coach vs. Business and the date.   I ended up with nice MXP-EWR-DTW on UA.   Besides a couple nights with the kids I have hopes for several at Lake Como.   Maybe the kids will join us.   14 nights total before we fly out.   Going to have fun filling the gap.   

momeason I'd like to hear about your VCE B&B recommendation.

Currently I still have 5 nights ressie at VCE Marriott.


----------



## chunkygal (Jul 15, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Thank you for all the replies so far.
> 
> I did look at flights to Milan.   Made another hold for going into Venice and out of Milan.   That gives us a couple days at the kids place and a couple days in Milan before leaving.
> 
> The 440K miles is difficult to swallow.   I can book coach for 120K.   What is it like flying overnight in coach?



Depends on how tall you are. I'm 5 feet..so I do coach


----------



## Quilter (Jul 15, 2015)

chunkygal said:


> Depends on how tall you are. I'm 5 feet..so I do coach



We finally got Business for the night flight over on a 747 and daytime coach for the return.


----------



## pwrshift (Jul 16, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Waking this thread up to update that besides the trip in Sept. I've gotten my trip booked in May/June.
> 
> Currently I still have 5 nights ressie at VCE Marriott.



I'm sure you'll love Venice although 5 nights seems a long time.  If you have SPG points, I used them for staying at The Danieli, probably the most famous upscale hotel in Venice...we got upgraded to a 1 BR suite facing the canal and the gondolas.  Dinner on the roof restaurant was spectacular.  Not sure but I think the Marriott is on an island and you need to boat it to the 'mainland'.    http://www.danielihotelvenice.com/

Did you look at VRBO for your tribe in Como area?
http://www.danielihotelvenice.com/


Brian


----------



## Quilter (Jul 17, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> I'm sure you'll love Venice although 5 nights seems a long time.  If you have SPG points, I used them for staying at The Danieli, probably the most famous upscale hotel in Venice...we got upgraded to a 1 BR suite facing the canal and the gondolas.  Dinner on the roof restaurant was spectacular.  Not sure but I think the Marriott is on an island and you need to boat it to the 'mainland'.    http://www.danielihotelvenice.com/
> 
> Did you look at VRBO for your tribe in Como area?
> http://www.danielihotelvenice.com/
> ...



The Danieli looks beautiful.   I don't have enough spg points.  Need to build those up again but I'm working on other point collecting from cc spending.
We thought at the very least we'd try to dine on the roof of the Danieli. 

The JW is on it's own island.   We don't want that one.   Reviews are sketchy.  We went to Scrub Island and found out what it was like to be trapped into eating at the hotel's only restaurants on the island.   Especially when you're not feeling well enough to take the shuttle boat to the other local offerings.   

Here's the one we reserved:  https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/vceak-boscolo-venezia-autograph-collection/   Easy walk to restaurants.   Quiet area.   Convenient from airport.    

I'll have fun looking for something in Lake Como.   Thanks for the VRBO tip.


----------



## Quilter (Aug 4, 2015)

I've been working on new "retirement" budget and including a couple of these trips into each year.   Sept. and May are booked.   Sept: from the time we leave the house until return we will have 14 nights away (one in the air).  Air, hotels, B&B's come to $1415.   May: from the time we leave the house until return we will have 15 nights away (one in air).   Air, hotels, B&B's come to $1640.   

I could use help with budget for auto, train, tips, food (most days we get breakfast).   

How do you figure these?


----------



## Quilter (Sep 10, 2015)

Waking this thread up again.   We arrived at il Cocco last night.   It's beautiful.  Hope to send picture from veranda like Fasttr did from HHI.  

When traveling you have to expect the unexcepted.  It began with the first plane missing the turn to the runway.   He tried braking hard, skidding all tires on pavement but rooked on by.  Had to make a u turn in the taxi lane.   Went back very slow.  Since taxi lane is one way we could see the other planes that were in line heading towards us.   That was a first.

Next we arrived in BOS to find Lufthansa pilots were striking and my dream of 747 in Business was cancelled.  To make a long story very short we overnighted in BOS (visited Long Wharf) and flew next night with Delta.  Still Busness and very, very nice flat bed.  Missed day in Milan.   Flew straight  into Florence.  Got nice Fiat 500L rental car and drove to resort.   Daughter had appetizer waiting for us and we had beautiful dinner together.

Today we had nice breakfast.  Weather is beautiful.  We're relaxing by pool.   View is dreamy.  Plans for train trip to Pisa tomorrow.


----------



## Pompey Family (Sep 10, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Flew straight  into Florence.  Got nice Fiat 500L rental car and drove to resort.   Daughter had appetizer waiting for us and we had beautiful dinner together.
> 
> Today we had nice breakfast.  Weather is beautiful.  We're relaxing by pool.   View is dreamy.  Plans for train trip to Pisa tomorrow.



Can you let me know your thoughts on Pisa? We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids  We actually fly into Pisa and take the train to Florence. I haven't been to either however I have heard from some who think that Pisa is quite overrated and very crowded.


----------



## bazzap (Sep 10, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> Can you let me know your thoughts on Pisa? We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids  We actually fly into Pisa and take the train to Florence. I haven't been to either however I have heard from some who think that Pisa is quite overrated and very crowded.


Florence is a great city.
It is large, if you want to get all around, so some good, sturdy walking shoes would be well worthwhile.
Pre-booking tickets for any galleries / museums you especially want to visit can be a good idea too as queues can be very long otherwise.


----------



## Pompey Family (Sep 11, 2015)

bazzap said:


> Florence is a great city.
> It is large, if you want to get all around, so some good, sturdy walking shoes would be well worthwhile.
> Pre-booking tickets for any galleries / museums you especially want to visit can be a good idea too as queues can be very long otherwise.



Thanks Barry, I'm going mainly for the food!


----------



## TRAVELING FOOL (Sep 11, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> Can you let me know your thoughts on Pisa? We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids  We actually fly into Pisa and take the train to Florence. I haven't been to either however I have heard from some who think that Pisa is quite overrated and very crowded.



We were in Italy last Sept. We traveled from Stresa to Pompeii. Although I loved the main tourist cities, the small villages were my favorite.I agree that Pisa is overrated. Very crowded. Before we arrived to the site, we had to go through all of these kiosks selling souveniers. It kind of cheapened the area for me. It rained part of the time we were in Venice, but I still loved discovering the hidden gems through all the corridors.Florence was beautiful, as was Tuscany. We also visited 3 of the 5 villages of Cinque Terre They were amazing.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Sep 11, 2015)

TRAVELING FOOL said:


> We were in Italy last Sept... ...It rained part of the time we were in Venice, but I still loved discovering the hidden gems through all the corridors.Florence was beautiful, as was Tuscany. We also visited 3 of the 5 villages of Cinque Terre They were amazing.



For those not familiar with Cinque Terre, here is more info from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Terre


Richard


----------



## MichaelColey (Sep 12, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids





Pompey Family said:


> Thanks Barry, I'm going mainly for the food!



If you're a foodie going to Florence, this was the highlight of our kids-free trip to Italy several years back:

http://tasteflorence.com/


----------



## Sunbum (Sep 12, 2015)

We just checked in to the JW Marriott Venice today. It is an unbelievable resort! Do not miss this one. It is so peaceful.


----------



## Quilter (Sep 12, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> Can you let me know your thoughts on Pisa? We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids  We actually fly into Pisa and take the train to Florence. I haven't been to either however I have heard from some who think that Pisa is quite overrated and very crowded.



I had written a long response and lost it.   This one will be brief.

Pisa and Lucca together, yes.  We took 8 am train to Pisa.  Cooler. In morning.  Got right in line to go up tower.  Glad we did.  Crowds were getting crazy by the time we came down tower.   Took photos.  Took train back to Lucca.  Ate and rode bikes.  Very nice day.  Went up Tower botanical.  

Daughter bought our train tickets on iPhone.  Good call.

For Florence I recommend il profetta for restaurant and bike tours of Tuscany.  

Look at Rick Steves YouTube videos for Lucca and Pisa.


----------



## Passepartout (Sep 12, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> Can you let me know your thoughts on Pisa? We've booked a long weekend in Florence in February (my 40th) without the kids  We actually fly into Pisa and take the train to Florence. I haven't been to either however I have heard from some who think that Pisa is quite overrated and very crowded.



Flying into Pisa for Florence is exactly what we do. Easier to get to the Firenza station. Pisa is just OK. The Duomo is far better than the defective tower. Really. A couple or 3 hours is about all it needs.

Jim


----------



## Quilter (Sep 12, 2015)

Passepartout said:


> Flying into Pisa for Florence is exactly what we do. Easier to get to the Firenza station. Pisa is just OK. The Duomo is far better than the defective tower. Really. A couple or 3 hours is about all it needs.
> 
> Jim




I agree.  And the best way to do this is to be there early.  Only 30 people go up tower at a time.  Lines grow significantly during day.  We got there about 9 and after walking some streets we were ready at station for our next train at 12:25.


----------



## Ken555 (Sep 12, 2015)

I think Pisa is worth visiting once. I've been there twice since I was with people who had not visited, but I don't see any reason to return. It looks better in pictures, especially once you can visualize the area with the number of tourists and tourist vendors (which is partly depressing). 

We hired a car and driver from Florence during my first trip, and visited Pisa, San Gimignano, and Siena in one day - that was a lot of fun and much easier than driving or taking the train.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Quilter (Sep 13, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> For those not familiar with Cinque Terre, here is more info from Wikipedia:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Terre
> 
> 
> Richard



We met people from England in pool who were at the no of 4 week trip.  They found out about Rick Steves from others during an earlier part of their trip and loved his guide book.  Their opinion is that Rick Steves put Cinque Terre on the tourist map.   They thought it was nice but would not go again in late August because of the heat and school crowds.  Same for Florence.   This is the same as our daughter has said about the August weather she had in Vicenza.  90's-100's.

We are on the last day of our  5 nights at il Coco.  It's raining.  So glad we've had nice weather for our little adventures.  We had planned to recoup from yesterday's stair walking.  It's beautiful watching the clouds roll over Barga and being in the clouds.


----------



## GrayFal (Sep 13, 2015)

Quilter said:


> We met people from England in pool who were at the no of 4 week trip.  They found out about Rick Steves from others during an earlier part of their trip and loved his guide book.  Their opinion is that Rick Steves put Cinque Terre on the tourist map.   They thought it was nice but would not go again in late August because of the heat and school crowds.  Same for Florence.   This is the same as our daughter has said about the August weather she had in Vicenza.  90's-100's.
> 
> We are on the last day of our  5 nights at il Coco.  It's raining.  So glad we've had nice weather for our little adventures.  We had planned to recoup from yesterday's stair walking.  It's beautiful watching the clouds roll over Barga and being in the clouds.



Ahhhhhh, love reading about your travels. Enjoy!


----------



## Quilter (Sep 13, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I think Pisa is worth visiting once.
> 
> Sent from my iPad



I agree if the time and trouble to get there doesn't take away from something better and if you're not visiting during time of high crowds and heat.  If we had arrived at noon when we were leaving it wouldn't have been a pleasant visit.  Lucca was a nicer experience with bikes, garden tower, eating and walking the city inside the wall.   

We planned our trip to train past Lucca in the morning and catch it on the return trip.   As a result we had more than enough time in Pisa from 9 to noon.  Catch 12:25 train to Lucca and 6:15 to Barga.   We arrived in Barga with enough daylight for our drive back to hotel.  These roads are winding and sometimes not quite 2 lanes.   The pizzeria on the property is open only on weekend.   We had a couple pizzas and beer with a beautiful view of Barga before walking up to our rooms.   As we sat at the pizzeria it turned dark and the lights came on in the valley.

If my time in Florence was limited (like it was when we visited in 2010) I'd much rather do a day bike trip through Tuscany.


----------



## TRAVELING FOOL (Sep 13, 2015)

We loved the little town of Lucca! Had some wonderful food out on the patio, along with wine of course! There was an amazing Italian bakery as well. I tried to converse with the owner , in my broken Italian, if he had any Pizzelli. I found it strange that none of the bakeries we visited had any. The cream puffs were to die for though! Being Of part Italian origin, I found the difference in the pasta sauces interesting as we traveled throughout the various regions.


----------



## Pompey Family (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks for all the input. I think we'll give Pisa a miss, it's only a tower suffering subsidence after all  and I really can't be bothered with wading through all the tourist tat so we'll stick to exploring Florence.


----------



## SMHarman (Sep 14, 2015)

It's not even subsiding these days. It's underpinned at an angle!

Kids and young adults will love it. A nice break from being inside museums. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## Pompey Family (Sep 14, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Kids and young adults will love it. A nice break from being inside museums.



I'm neither!


----------



## Ken555 (Sep 14, 2015)

Pompey Family said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think we'll give Pisa a miss, it's only a tower suffering subsidence after all  and I really can't be bothered with wading through all the tourist tat so we'll stick to exploring Florence.




Smart 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Quilter (Sep 16, 2015)

The storm lasted through the night.  Exciting to watch from the resort.  Next day we drove 4hours to our  agrituristo b & b in Volto Mantovana.  Relaxed the rest of the evening with a walk to town. 

 Next morning we drove up to Sirmione for the day.  This is another place where arriving early makes a big difference.  We parked 2.4 km from city center at 11 a.m.  Arriving a bit earlier we could have parked closer.  We walked past the crowds at the castle to visit the Roman ruins at the point.  Our daughter said the castle on the inside was much like the outside.  The views from the ruins were beautiful.  It was hot and we wished we had our swimsuits.  Walking back through the town center was wall to wall people.  Moved the car to a waterside restaurant for late, late lunch.  It had it's own parking lot.  Lunch and parking, that's 2 for 2 here.  Saw lots of people leaving while we ate.  After a rest we parked close to the castle and hired a boat for a ride around the peninsula.  The route cut through the castle on way back to the dock.  Lake Garda gave us a taste of what Lake Como would have been like.  

Gelato and crossword on a waterside bench to people watch.  

Today we drove to Anna's in Vicenza.  She took us to favorite local community, Comisano.


----------



## Quilter (Sep 17, 2015)

Today we visited properties designed by Palladio and went into Vicenzia.  Vicenzia was worth the visit.  The kids have their favorite eateries.  Nice.  I'm driving and daughter is copilot.  "At the next roundabout you will take the first exit".   Nice having a guide although we do laugh and they gasp a lot.   Had pizza and wine on her balcony.  Mountains and farm fields to my left.  Pretty villa in front of me.  Neighborhood road to my right (glad I'm not on it).  Thumbnail moon.


----------



## Quilter (Sep 18, 2015)

Today we arrived at our last B&B.  It was a fairly easy 1-1/2 hr.  drive on the Autostrada from Vicenza.  Another farm.  They make their own wine.  Beds are much softer than the last B&B.  Sheets and pillow cases have crocheted border and are pressed to perfection.  We are at the southern border of the Dolomites so we're on hilly roads again like Barga.  Took the drive up to this place in 1st gear.  You have to be committed to getting to the end once you start.  http://www.tripadvisor.it/Hotel_Rev...agna-Susegana_Province_of_Treviso_Veneto.html

When we arrived the hostess greeted us by name.  She offered us water, wine, Prosecco, beer or coke to enjoy on the patio.  I was able to pick grapes right off the pergola to eat.  Our hostess Chiara called them strawberry grapes.  I even plucked a fig from their tree.  After looking around the grounds and getting settled in our room we had a refreshing swim in the pool.  Our daughter is meeting us tomorrow in  Treviso and will come back here with us for our next night. Once we saw how nice this place is we wanted to share it with her. 

Thinking back through the trip to il Ciocco we would return to that hotel.  Even though it cost us a day and a half in Italy, the strike with Lufthansa really did us a favor since we ended up landing in Florence.   One 4 hr. drive on the Autostrada was enough.   I could see flying into Florence, driving to Sirmione and then to Venice.   If I returned to Sirmione I would stay in hotel right by the town center for a couple days to enjoy the ferries around Lake Garda.  I'm hoping Varenna next May won't be as touristy as Sirmione.  From what I've seen of this place I would definitely return.  

Tell you more about Treviso after our visit tomorrow.


----------



## Quilter (Sep 24, 2015)

We got home Monday evening.

Our last 2 days we met Anna in Treviso (mentioned in last post) and brought her back to Susegana with us.   I like Treviso because of it's canals.  But mostly I remember sitting outside a small restaurant on the corner of a piazza having a nibble and a glass of prosecco.   It was our first stop after the drive down the hill from Susegana and walk from the train station where we met Anna so it was a welcome respite.  Our B&B hostess highly recommended it for the charm and the shops.   This article mentions the abundance of art, and we did see some of the frescos, but we mostly were there to absorb the atmosphere:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/d...so-Italy-an-underrated-gateway-to-Venice.html

Surprise, surprise.   I thought Anna would be as enamored with the B&B as I was.   The drive up the hill was interesting, the setting with vineyard and garden also interesting.   Enamored, no.   You see this farm villa dates back like many of them do.   The current owners restored it with materials fitting to the age of the building.   But what Anna didn't like. . .no screens.   I loved the authenticity, she didn't.   This tough little ER nurse can handle a trauma but doesn't do well with the occasional moth (or spider) that may come in for the night.   We dined on the patio.   The same one I loved with the smell of ripe  grapes dripping from the vines above.   She caught sight of a fairly large spider in a web over our table and had to keep watch that it stayed put.   We had reserved her a darling separate room.   Jack stayed there for the night and she shared the one with me.  After a careful inspection of the rafters.    On the plus side was sharing the night with my daughter.   (She did consent to let me keep the bathroom window open through the night for fresh air).   

So my thought of gifting her and Daniel with a couple nights for themselves was dashed.   I'll stick with finding her rooms at the Renaissance, Westin, Park Hyatt, etc.  

The next morning we had the extensive breakfast and headed off to take her to train in Conegliano.   After she left Jack and I visited this town.   It had a street festival going on with vendors for cars and motorcycles.  We climbed up the hill to visit the Castle and Villa.   Had a nice lunch and headed to Venice.

We first dropped off our luggage at the Best Western at the Marco Polo airport.   The Courtyard is just a short ways up the street.   We asked the receptionist if it would be worth the trouble for a few hours in Venice as it was just before 4.   She suggested we drop off the car at the airport and take the water bus over (15 Euro each) but take the bus back (1.50 Euro each).   She could sell us the bus tickets.   She gave us instructions where to find gas before dropping off the car. 

The gas station across from the car rental (the only one nearby) was .20 more per liter than the ones we had seen on the way.   There were lines of cars for each pump.   Drivers were tense as they were also dropping cars before flights.   No one in the station so paying was all done at one vending machine.   It wasn't taking all credit cards.   Took another guy's Visa but denied 2 of ours.   We were on our last 50 Euro.   You had to prepay and guess how much it would take to fill the tank.   We first put in 20 Euro.   Nope, not enough.   Put in another 25 and it topped off with 4 left over.   Dropped the car off with no issues.   I'm hopping I don't get any surprise tickets in the mail.   I've been told it could take a month.  I tried to stay within all limits but sometimes it was hard to judge what zone I was in.   The limit will drop from 70 to 50 with a sign that is attached to a speed sensing device and camera.   Same for the 50 to 30 change.  

We hadn't planned to visit Venice on this trip but I'm glad we did.   Truthfully, the 3 hours we had has made us rethink the 3 days we have reserved in May.   We think we've seen enough.   Walked, saw street performers, walked, walked, walked.  Hotel receptionist had given us 2 recommendations for restaurants.   Danieli was on my own list of possibilities but it was full of reservations. I showed the receptionist at Danieli the other suggestions and she said both were good.  The first was also full.  We got in at the next restaurant that was recommended.  By the time we were 1/2 through our meal there was a significant line at the door.   By the time we left the line was out the door and down the alley.   We took another water bus along Grand Canal to bus station.   In all we walked from the water bus stop at the Arsenal through the center, over the Grand Canal.   Our flight was at 7 the next morning so our return to the hotel at 10 was great.   

In all we had much more time with Anna than we expected which was great.   I've gone over receipts and think we did the whole trip, air, rooms, meals, car, tolls, for about $200 a day.   I have .40 Euro left.    We did more than we had planned, ate very well and I loved my little Fiat 500L.


----------



## SunandFun83 (Sep 26, 2015)

*Update on Quilter's Trip to Italy*

Lufthansa went on strike - she got
1.  Free night in Boston to break up a very long travel day
2.  Arrival city 3 hours closer to her Marriott Renaissance destination

This seems like a very lucky outcome from what many would find an interruption

Quilter is now on an all Italian food diet;  Quilter explained the following:
Arancini are fried Italian Rice balls - everything tastes better fried
Gelato (Italian Ice Cream) can be enjoyed with breakfast, lunch, or dinner
The Mayo Clinic research finds red wine and anti-oxidants are heart healthy
The long winding streets of a cute Italian town are best enjoyed from your balcony with A. Gelato or B. Red Wine (walking those streets is optional)

We are glad you had a fun and relaxing trip to Italy.


----------

