# What to do in China?



## glypnirsgirl

Soon I will be joining my husband on a business trip to China. 

We will be traveling to Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong. I do not have to worry about hotel accomodations, as we will be staying at the hotel his office arranges. 

I will have at least 6 hours per day for at least 3 days in each city. I am interested in tours and other sites that might be more easily manageable for me to find and enjoy.

Any hints will be greatly appreciated.

elaine


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## Passepartout

Elaine, It's been 9 years since our last China trip, so consider the age of any info. We found that primarily due to language and signage difficulties it's best to use a local guide. I'm sure the concierge or front desk will be able to recommend them. You can exchange money at the desk too. The currency is highly regulated and the rate is the same. (hint) Always take a hotel card from the desk to show to a taxi driver to get you 'home'. They don't always understand where you are telling them to take you.

Obviously, in Beijing you'll want to see the Forbidden City, Summer Palace, Ming Tombs, hike a chunk of the Great Wall- there are better less developed areas than Badaling, but it's handy. I loved buying a kite and flying it on Tien An Men Square. Had to drag it all over china for a month afterwards and still have it hung on a wall at home. Try to get a rickshaw tour through the hutongs- small- family neighborhoods. Most were ruled slums and simply bulldozed in the last decade or 2 to make room for modernizing. I think a few were saved to show tourists.

In Shanghai, we wandered into shops on streets around Yu Yu Gardens Touristy as heck but feels safe and there are plenty of Chinese doing the same thing. Wander the Bund and the 19th C. British area near the riverfront. Cross over to the 'New City formerly 'Pudong', I think. Glittering skyscrapers, wide boulevards and the like. It's what China wants to be.

Hong Kong- Easy to get around- after 97 years of Brit rule, English is it's second language. All signs and virtually every restaurant menu is in English. Shop Nathan Road. Ride the old double decker trams on HK island. Take a ferry across the harbour. Take the funicular to the top of Victoria Peak. My DW has difficult-to-fit feet and found shoes in the shops at the top. Unbelievable! There are many many city tours- take one or more. You can jump a high-speed boat or train (I think)to Macau if gambling is your thing. It makes Las Vegas look like a backwater stateline casino.

One of the most fun things I did- might not appeal to everyone- was I bought a T-Shirt with 3 Chinese characters on it that said (I'll spell it phonetically) May Yo Chen. It means 'No Money'. I'd wear it and shop girls would all gather and point and ask if I new what it meant and assure me that plastic was just fine. They simply couldn't imagine a foreigner with no money. It was a great ice-breaker to get to meet and talk to 'regular' people.

Enjoy your trip. It's a wonderful (and I mean that literally- full of wonder!) place. You will come home with a whole different outlook. Oh, and 1.3 billion is a helluva lot of people!

Jim


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## yoohoo

I would add Temple of Heaven to sights in Beijing.

In Hong Kong, try shopping at nightly markets; they spring up when it get dark.

You can bargain for most things in China and Hong Kong.  When we visited the Great Wall, t-shirts started at 100 yuan at the top the hill and by the time we get down to the bottom of the hill, only a block, they were going for 10 yuan.


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## jerseygirl

If you like art, I would add "798" in Beijing.  I'd also arrange a tour that visits a hutong (they're quickly disappearing).  

Consider arranging for a driver and tour guide through the hotel.  The price is very reasonable.


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## glypnirsgirl

Passepartout said:


> Elaine, It's been 9 years since our last China trip, so consider the age of any info. We found that primarily due to language and signage difficulties it's best to use a local guide. I'm sure the concierge or front desk will be able to recommend them. You can exchange money at the desk too. The currency is highly regulated and the rate is the same. (hint) Always take a hotel card from the desk to show to a taxi driver to get you 'home'. They don't always understand where you are telling them to take you.
> 
> Obviously, in Beijing you'll want to see the Forbidden City, Summer Palace, Ming Tombs, hike a chunk of the Great Wall- there are better less developed areas than Badaling, but it's handy. I loved buying a kite and flying it on Tien An Men Square. Had to drag it all over china for a month afterwards and still have it hung on a wall at home. Try to get a rickshaw tour through the hutongs- small- family neighborhoods. Most were ruled slums and simply bulldozed in the last decade or 2 to make room for modernizing. I think a few were saved to show tourists.
> 
> In Shanghai, we wandered into shops on streets around Yu Yu Gardens Touristy as heck but feels safe and there are plenty of Chinese doing the same thing. Wander the Bund and the 19th C. British area near the riverfront. Cross over to the 'New City formerly 'Pudong', I think. Glittering skyscrapers, wide boulevards and the like. It's what China wants to be.
> 
> Hong Kong- Easy to get around- after 97 years of Brit rule, English is it's second language. All signs and virtually every restaurant menu is in English. Shop Nathan Road. Ride the old double decker trams on HK island. Take a ferry across the harbour. Take the funicular to the top of Victoria Peak. My DW has difficult-to-fit feet and found shoes in the shops at the top. Unbelievable! There are many many city tours- take one or more. You can jump a high-speed boat or train (I think)to Macau if gambling is your thing. It makes Las Vegas look like a backwater stateline casino.
> 
> One of the most fun things I did- might not appeal to everyone- was I bought a T-Shirt with 3 Chinese characters on it that said (I'll spell it phonetically) May Yo Chen. It means 'No Money'. I'd wear it and shop girls would all gather and point and ask if I new what it meant and assure me that plastic was just fine. They simply couldn't imagine a foreigner with no money. It was a great ice-breaker to get to meet and talk to 'regular' people.
> 
> Enjoy your trip. It's a wonderful (and I mean that literally- full of wonder!) place. You will come home with a whole different outlook. Oh, and 1.3 billion is a helluva lot of people!
> 
> Jim



Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the hints - especially about how to handle getting to the hotel. 

Seeing China has been a goal of mine ever since I saw the Xian warriors in Chicago in 1980 or so. 

At the same time, I am more intimidated by this trip than I ever have been about traveling anywhere. In large part, that is due to the inability to read Chinese characters. It is one thing to not be able to understand a language but at least you can decipher the signs phonetically. And quite another to go someplace where I can't even read the most rudimentary signs. Scary.

I had been looking online for guides ... it had never occurred to me to arrange through the hotel. Much better idea for me. 

It looks like I am going to have to use frequent flyer miles for the trip over as Ian's company still has not released the itinerary. 

Love the idea of flying kites in Tianamen Square.

Thanks for the help!

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

yoohoo said:


> I would add Temple of Heaven to sights in Beijing.
> 
> In Hong Kong, try shopping at nightly markets; they spring up when it get dark.
> 
> You can bargain for most things in China and Hong Kong.  When we visited the Great Wall, t-shirts started at 100 yuan at the top the hill and by the time we get down to the bottom of the hill, only a block, they were going for 10 yuan.



I had not heard of Temple of Heaven before. Thanks for the hint. It looks like a wonderful example of Chinese architecture.

How do you bargain when you can't speak the language?

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

jerseygirl said:


> If you like art, I would add "798" in Beijing.  I'd also arrange a tour that visits a hutong (they're quickly disappearing).
> 
> Consider arranging for a driver and tour guide through the hotel.  The price is very reasonable.



What is 798?

Online I saw a couple of tours that offered time in old town to see the hutongs. Looks interesting.

elaine


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## jerseygirl

Here's Lonely Planet's review of the 798 Art District:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/china/beijing/sights/art/798-art-district

Have a wonderful time!


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## CatLovers

*glypnirsgirl*, we were in China last year in August for a holiday, and I returned there for business again just last month.  If you will PM me with your email address, I will send you a Word document that I put together containing must-see sights in Beijing, Shanghai and Xi'an, plus a list of private guides (and the names of the three we hired) and some other related information.

Our highlight of the entire trip was our visit to Xi'an; I know it's not in your plans, but it turned out to be our #1 experience.


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## Passepartout

CatLovers said:


> Our highlight of the entire trip was our visit to Xi'an; I know it's not in your plans, but it turned out to be our #1 experience.



Xi'an was a true highlight to us, too. I told my DW that when they crack the Emperor's tomb, I want to be on the first plane headed that way. The treasures of Xi'an are just unbelievable.

Jim


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## yoohoo

How to bargain?  Most likely you will have a guide with you; have the guide do it.  Make sure the seller does not know that it is you buying it during the bargaining.  Sellers will want more from outsiders.  Also the shop next door will likely have the same item; do not jump right away.


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## glypnirsgirl

jerseygirl said:


> Here's Lonely Planet's review of the 798 Art District:
> 
> http://www.lonelyplanet.com/china/beijing/sights/art/798-art-district
> 
> Have a wonderful time!



Sounds fascinating. Almost like a time capsule.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

CatLovers said:


> *glypnirsgirl*, we were in China last year in August for a holiday, and I returned there for business again just last month.  If you will PM me with your email address, I will send you a Word document that I put together containing must-see sights in Beijing, Shanghai and Xi'an, plus a list of private guides (and the names of the three we hired) and some other related information.
> 
> Our highlight of the entire trip was our visit to Xi'an; I know it's not in your plans, but it turned out to be our #1 experience.



Many of Ian's co-workers are Chinese. It turns out that they are happy that I will be going with them. They are arranging the itinerary to make it easier for me to enjoy the trip. 

So, the working itinerary starts in Hong Kong for 2 days, Shenzen for 4 days (10 years ago, Shenzen had a populatio of 300K, it is now 1.2 million), Shanghai 3 days and then Beijing. We are looking at staying in Beijing a few extra days. 

I am going to see if Ian is willing to go to Xi'an. It is really what I dream of when imagining a trip to China.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

CatLovers said:


> *glypnirsgirl*, we were in China last year in August for a holiday, and I returned there for business again just last month.  If you will PM me with your email address, I will send you a Word document that I put together containing must-see sights in Beijing, Shanghai and Xi'an, plus a list of private guides (and the names of the three we hired) and some other related information.
> 
> Our highlight of the entire trip was our visit to Xi'an; I know it's not in your plans, but it turned out to be our #1 experience.



This is such a kind offer. I am taking you up on it.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

*frequent flyer or pay?*

The furthest that I have ever flown is to Hawaii (about 10 hours). 

My husband says that flying to Asia is in a whole other realm due to the length of the trip. 

I have enough frequent flyer miles that I can fly 1st class using my miles. I am inclined to pay and fly coach. The main reason that I would be willing to pay is to get more frequent flyer miles. I would qualify for gold status if I paid to fly. 

The cost of the flight is less than we pay for coach to Hawaii. It is about $475each way. 

Am I just crazy for considering paying?

elaine


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## Passepartout

glypnirsgirl said:


> Am I just crazy for considering paying?
> 
> elaine



Not necessarily. It IS a helluva loooong flight. But if you can sleep, have a book to read, sound deadening headphones, you'd be fine. Hundreds do it- every flight. I get properly medicated (for sleep) and do laps around the cabin every hour or 2 when awake to hold down the likelihood of a clot. Coach gets there at the same time as first class and the flight time is the same. 

OTOH, flying first on a 15+hr long haul is darn nice, and these days, I think if I can qualify for an upgrade, I go for it rather than save it up. 

Jim


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## bjones9942

I'd eat, eat and eat some more.  And I wouldn't ask what it was until I was done!

Wèidào guàiguài de!  (this tastes funny)


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## CatLovers

glypnirsgirl said:


> Am I just crazy for considering paying?



Yes.  There's no way I'd do such a long flight in "cattle class"!  The real benefit to me of first or business class is the room, specifically the lie-flat beds.  Whenever I fly overseas (trans-atlantic or trans-pacific), I always book with an airline that has lie-flat beds on the route I want.  With Air Canada, it's pretty much all their TATL or TPAC flights.  I know that many US airlines have this as well, but the only one I know of for sure is United.  As soon as I get on the plane, I adjust my mental clock and my wristwatch to the time of my destination, and I sleep as needed to arrive there well-rested.  I very rarely suffer from jet lag as a result.  But I used to when I flew coach!

YMMV.


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## glypnirsgirl

CatLovers said:


> Yes.  There's no way I'd do such a long flight in "cattle class"!  The real benefit to me of first or business class is the room, specifically the lie-flat beds.  Whenever I fly overseas (trans-atlantic or trans-pacific), I always book with an airline that has lie-flat beds on the route I want.  With Air Canada, it's pretty much all their TATL or TPAC flights.  I know that many US airlines have this as well, but the only one I know of for sure is United.  As soon as I get on the plane, I adjust my mental clock and my wristwatch to the time of my destination, and I sleep as needed to arrive there well-rested.  I very rarely suffer from jet lag as a result.  But I used to when I flew coach!
> 
> YMMV.



All of my frequent flyer miles are on AA. They have about a 20% grade off of horizontal in business class (head about 20 degrees hisher than feet). 

And a complete lie flat in first. 

The seats are arranged 3/5/3 in coach. 2/3/2 in business. And 1/2/1 in first class. That is a HUGE difference in the amount of space. 

I will be saving about $1000 to use my frequent flyer miles so I have decided to go ahead and go first class. The purpose of saving the frequent flyer miles was to go to Japan. I would prefer to go to China, so I might as well use them on this trip.

elaine


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## Jwerking

Elaine:

I am ethnically Chinese and went to China about 8 yrs ago - we did HK, Toishan ( rural village where my parents lived), Guangzhou, and Beijing.  While lots of folks love HK - I just found it to be a big city with not any old ancient Chinese sights to see.  We were there for 5 nights and that was more than enough and don't know that I would ever want to return.  I loved Beijing and all the sites mentioned by others.  

I don't know that you really need a personal tour guide in Beijing - which can be very expensive esp. when booking in Western type hotels.  It was really easy to catch a taxi everywhere we needed with the hotel just writing down for us where we wanted to go in Chinese - in order to show to taxi drivers.  At least 8 yrs ago -taxis were very cheap - only about $2 US for a ride anywhere within Beijing proper.   The Forbidden City was my favorite and they had a great audio guide that was excellent - told you everything and more than you ever needed to know.  And the English in the Audio guide was excellent - first class.  Cannot imagine that a private tour guide would have done any better - esp. if you get one whose English may not be great.  However, we did have some audio guides at the other locations that were not very good quality - with poor English that was difficult to understand.   The only organized tour we took was one to the Great Wall and Ming Tombs - which is quite a distance from Beijing - it was fine. 

Don't know what the situation is currently - but 8 yrs ago, the tour prices were exorbitant if you booked at the Western Hotels or online from the US.  After a lot of online searching, I found someone that had been to China a lot, I was able to get the name of a local Chinese travel agent in Guangzhou.  The prices for the same travel and tour services were SO CHEAP that I did book a private tour in Guangzhou for the entire day for our family of 4 and private transfers to and from airports.  His prices for intra-china airfares were also about half-price for the same flights than booking from the US.  I even tried US chinatown and HK travel agents - which quoted the same exorbitant prices.  So at least in those days, the prices were about half or even cheaper if you book directly with a Mainland China travel agent. 

For example, the Great Wall/Ming Tombs bus tour in those days was about $60 or $70 per person and I got the exact same tour for about half price.  I even used the tour operator at the Marriott Courtyard Hotel, where we stayed, to make final arrangements for the tour and she was not happy that I had an email documenting that I had booked at about half price - but begrudgingly honored the price.  Others at the hotel went on the same tour - so it is all the same tour operator with just agents booking in their behalf.

Of course, you are on business, so may not want to go to the trouble to save $$$ - but we were  family of 4 at the time and I was an at-home Mom at the time - so really pinching pennies in those days.

The flight over to China is indeed a challenge - makes the 8 hr flight to Hawaii a piece of cake.  It is better to go at night if possible, so you are tired and can better sleep part of the way when your body is tired.  We flew into Chicago and had  a daytime flight nonstop from there to HK - it was difficult.  I cannot remember if they even had a designated sleep time - I just remember hating it.  I have recently flown to Australia and Korea and it is better to have a designated sleep time to break up the trip.  Even if you can only catnap - the whole plane is "sleeping" - thus, helps to break the trip up.  They wake you up in enough time to serve a breakfast and you are there.   So go first class if you can - definitely worth it.  I have always gone cattle class and am still alive to talk about it!

Joyce


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## yoohoo

We go to China about once a year.  We speak both Mandarin and Cantonese.  Language is not a problem.  Our trip usually involves three flights.  The long leg of our trip is Chicago to Korea; it is about fourteen hours.  Shortly after takeoff, they start with something to drink.  Some airlines will hand out warm towels to freshen up.  After they pick everything up, you are served a meal usually dinner.  Once they pickup after dinner, you are about three hours into your flight.  Now the shapes are pulled down and the lights are lowered.  It does not matter what the time is outside the plane.  If you want to sleep, you can.  If not, there are movies you can watch; you have an individual screen.  Look around; you might find two seats together that you can lie down across.  If you not sleeping, get up and walk around every couple of hours.  If you can, get an aisle seat.  The lights will come on about a little less than three hours.  They will hand out warm towels.  A meal will be served, usually breakfast.  During the meal, the crew will hand out immigration forms.  Since we are changing planes, we do not worry about the forms on this middle leg.  You need to be aware that security is much tighter here.  You will go through a security screen again and you may be selected for a hand search at the gate.  It is a long trip; a trip that we dread every time.  Clock time from time when we leave our house to when we get to where we are staying is 24 to 30 hours.

On another subject, if you have not obtained your visa, get one with multiple entry and stays for 90 days and good for two years.  It does not cost that much more.  If you go to Hong Kong or Macau, you have will have left China and need to go through immigration to reenter China just like you first arrived.


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## glypnirsgirl

Jwerking said:


> Elaine:
> 
> I am ethnically Chinese and went to China about 8 yrs ago - we did HK, Toishan ( rural village where my parents lived), Guangzhou, and Beijing.  While lots of folks love HK - I just found it to be a big city with not any old ancient Chinese sights to see.  We were there for 5 nights and that was more than enough and don't know that I would ever want to return.  I loved Beijing and all the sites mentioned by others.
> 
> I don't know that you really need a personal tour guide in Beijing - which can be very expensive esp. when booking in Western type hotels.  It was really easy to catch a taxi everywhere we needed with the hotel just writing down for us where we wanted to go in Chinese - in order to show to taxi drivers.  At least 8 yrs ago -taxis were very cheap - only about $2 US for a ride anywhere within Beijing proper.   The Forbidden City was my favorite and they had a great audio guide that was excellent - told you everything and more than you ever needed to know.  And the English in the Audio guide was excellent - first class.  Cannot imagine that a private tour guide would have done any better - esp. if you get one whose English may not be great.  However, we did have some audio guides at the other locations that were not very good quality - with poor English that was difficult to understand.   The only organized tour we took was one to the Great Wall and Ming Tombs - which is quite a distance from Beijing - it was fine.
> 
> Don't know what the situation is currently - but 8 yrs ago, the tour prices were exorbitant if you booked at the Western Hotels or online from the US.  After a lot of online searching, I found someone that had been to China a lot, I was able to get the name of a local Chinese travel agent in Guangzhou.  The prices for the same travel and tour services were SO CHEAP that I did book a private tour in Guangzhou for the entire day for our family of 4 and private transfers to and from airports.  His prices for intra-china airfares were also about half-price for the same flights than booking from the US.  I even tried US chinatown and HK travel agents - which quoted the same exorbitant prices.  So at least in those days, the prices were about half or even cheaper if you book directly with a Mainland China travel agent.
> 
> For example, the Great Wall/Ming Tombs bus tour in those days was about $60 or $70 per person and I got the exact same tour for about half price.  I even used the tour operator at the Marriott Courtyard Hotel, where we stayed, to make final arrangements for the tour and she was not happy that I had an email documenting that I had booked at about half price - but begrudgingly honored the price.  Others at the hotel went on the same tour - so it is all the same tour operator with just agents booking in their behalf.
> 
> Of course, you are on business, so may not want to go to the trouble to save $$$ - but we were  family of 4 at the time and I was an at-home Mom at the time - so really pinching pennies in those days.
> 
> The flight over to China is indeed a challenge - makes the 8 hr flight to Hawaii a piece of cake.  It is better to go at night if possible, so you are tired and can better sleep part of the way when your body is tired.  We flew into Chicago and had  a daytime flight nonstop from there to HK - it was difficult.  I cannot remember if they even had a designated sleep time - I just remember hating it.  I have recently flown to Australia and Korea and it is better to have a designated sleep time to break up the trip.  Even if you can only catnap - the whole plane is "sleeping" - thus, helps to break the trip up.  They wake you up in enough time to serve a breakfast and you are there.   So go first class if you can - definitely worth it.  I have always gone cattle class and am still alive to talk about it!
> 
> Joyce



Hi Joyce! Thanks so much about the advice on the tour guides. I think that I will do a mix - some of the biggest sights like Forbidden City to use the audio guides and some of the smaller, less traveled sights to use a guide. 

The flight I am taking is DFW to Chicago to Shanghai. 

We will be 3 days in Shanghai, then we will be in Xi'an for 2 days, then Beijing for 4 days, then Tokyo for 3 days.

I have always wanted to go to China. My husband has always wanted to take me to Japan. I think that it is because he vacations in Japan and works while in China so his experiences are different. 

By flying into Shanghai, I was able to use the discounted frequent flyer first class rate and it ended up being less miles than the business rate into HK or Beijing. 

I will not be going to Hong Kong at all. The business trip starts in Hong Kong, the to Shenzen for 10 days. Ian goes to Shenzen fairly frequently and doesn't want me there. He thinks that I will be bored because that is where their largest customer is so he will be working more than full time during that 10 days and there is not much to see as it is a very new city. (In ten years it has quadrupled in size). 

I have made my lists of what is important for me to see in each place. Next thing that I will work on is marking them on a map, then doing a timeline. 

How much time should I allow for the Forbidden City? It looks like an enormous complex. It also looks like some of the more interesting parts are down alleys and side streets. Does the audio tour go to those areas?

Thanks for your help!
elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

yoohoo said:


> It is a long trip; a trip that we dread every time.  Clock time from time when we leave our house to when we get to where we are staying is 24 to 30 hours.
> 
> On another subject, if you have not obtained your visa, get one with multiple entry and stays for 90 days and good for two years.  It does not cost that much more.  If you go to Hong Kong or Macau, you have will have left China and need to go through immigration to reenter China just like you first arrived.




Thanks for the advice on the visa. I need to get my application in now that I have booked my flights. 

And get my shots. Ian recommends flu, hepatitis A and hepatitis B. Is there anything else that i will need?

elaine


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## lily28

Visa to china now is $140 for 1 year multiple entries. It is hard to get the 2 year visa; I think it is for business people and sometimes people who were born in china. Because we go back to china every year, my mom and I have been able to get the 2 year visa; my brother, on the other hand who was born in the u.s., was denied the 2 year visa and got only the 1 year one.  As the price is the same for the 1 and 2 year visa, you can try to apply for the longer visa.
We tend to go to china at least one a year in the past 10 years.  We have seen china getting more and more prosperous during this period.  With this, we also see prices go higher, especially entrance fees to attractions. However, they are still cheaper than Disney park tickets.  You can try to hire a car if you are going to the great wall and Ming tombs ( about 1 hour from center of Beijing). We paid 400 yuans (about $65) for 1 day. You still have to pay entrance fees on top of it.  It is cheaper to join a local tour but your time at each place is limited.


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## Jwerking

glypnirsgirl said:


> I will not be going to Hong Kong at all. The business trip starts in Hong Kong, the to Shenzen for 10 days. Ian goes to Shenzen fairly frequently and doesn't want me there. He thinks that I will be bored because that is where their largest customer is so he will be working more than full time during that 10 days and there is not much to see as it is a very new city. (In ten years it has quadrupled in size).
> 
> I have made my lists of what is important for me to see in each place. Next thing that I will work on is marking them on a map, then doing a timeline.
> 
> How much time should I allow for the Forbidden City? It looks like an enormous complex. It also looks like some of the more interesting parts are down alleys and side streets. Does the audio tour go to those areas?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> elaine



Hi Elaine:

Honestly, you will not miss HK and I think that your hubby is right that there is nothing to see in Shenzen - just more HK type shopping.  

We toured the Forbidden City for probably about 4 hrs - an entire morning.  We were there in the middle of the summer - so it was very hot and humid.  SO our routine was to go early in the morning - take a break a the hotel during the middle of the day and then do something else after dinner.  The pollution there was horrible in the summer - it looked foggy the entire day due to the pollution - hopefully it has improved.   Anyway, I think that three or four hrs was plenty to see most of the Forbidden City.  It is a very large complex and we did get back into some of the alleys, etc - just very spread out.  I remember that it was a very long walk back to the front of the complex in the heat in order to catch a cab. 

I am certain that over the years, tourism for Americans have improved in China.  Eight years ago, very little English was spoken - so don't get lost and know where you are going.   As I said previously stated, I went to visit my parent's village in Toishan - which is about 100 miles SW of HK.  We took a bus from HK and it was one of the most traumatic travel events in my life.  Had not clue that we had to disembark from the bus to process thru HK immigration and then do the same thing a few miles later to enter Mainland China.  Of course, since no one spoke English and I did not understand the dialect of Cantonese being spoken on the bus - we had no clue that we were to switch onto another bus for the Mainland China portion of the trip.  We had left of bunch of our personal stuff on the other bus.  Then horrors - they just started to drop people off on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere - not at bus stations as I had anticipated.  Luckily, at our destination, there was a bus station - so we were able to get  a cab to our hotel.  But it was a few stressful hours, I felt like I was lost in China - at that point, no one spoke English and I had no clue what was going on and no one could answer my questions.

It was odd that once I got to Toishan - everyone spoke my dialect of Cantonese and I could communicate easily.  I was thrilled to be hosted by the Government office sponsoring overseas chinese - who found my parent's home and my Mom's childhood home and found individuals with keys so that we got to go inside.  Both homes were much more than I had expected based on my Mom's stories over the years and I was thrilled to see them.  It was truly an awesome experience for me. 

Joyce


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## glypnirsgirl

*Added Hungzou*

I am concerned about joining a tour group. Several of Ian's co-workers have warned Ian that the tour groups take you to sights for a short period of time, then to shops for much longer periods of time. I vehemently dislike shopping. The shopping issue is the main reason that I have wanted a private guide.

Ian's boss has added Hungzou to their itinerary. It will be after Shenzen and possible after Shanghai.

Does anyone know anything about Hungzou? Hangzhou? Zhengzhou - maybe? I am attempting to spell in phonetically.

elaine


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## vacationhopeful

The gift shop routine happened on a 3 day bus tour in Ireland to me. At the 2nd shop, a sharp guy talked to several others on the bus and told the driver & tour guide, we wanted to go to Irish pubs. Guide explained the bus company had these stops scheduled with the "gift" shops and the shops counted the people off the bus, etc. Mr Sharpy asked if they counted on our TIPS as their income as we (us on the bus) wanted to go to Irish pubs. And _We_ would tip VERY well or NOT at all. So the rule was "one shop, one pub", but everyone had to get off the bus and walk thru the gift shop (okay, we fasted walked thru the gift shop). The 80yo guy ducked low in his seat and 6 month pregant lady walked in the front door and out. The other bus with us NEVER caught on; and we tipped our driver very well.

BUT I don't think that would work in China.


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## yoohoo

It is Hangzhou.  If you are in Hangzhou, it is not far from Yellow Mountain.  Yellow Mountain may not be the correct name.  Its Chinese name translate to Yellow Mountain.

As for the shopping, the guide and the tour company get a commission for the stuff you buy.  The higher price tours have less shopping; they all have some shopping.  We did have good experience at a rug factory in Xian.  A silk 10X10 rug started at $3,800.  We got it $1,100.  You need to bargain and bargain hard.  It was appraised at $9,000 back home.  We are thinking about selling this and going back to Xian to get another one to pay for the whole trip.


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## glypnirsgirl

yoohoo said:


> It is Hangzhou.  If you are in Hangzhou, it is not far from Yellow Mountain.  Yellow Mountain may not be the correct name.  Its Chinese name translate to Yellow Mountain.
> 
> As for the shopping, the guide and the tour company get a commission for the stuff you buy.  The higher price tours have less shopping; they all have some shopping.  We did have good experience at a rug factory in Xian.  A silk 10X10 rug started at $3,800.  We got it $1,100.  You need to bargain and bargain hard.  It was appraised at $9,000 back home.  We are thinking about selling this and going back to Xian to get another one to pay for the whole trip.



WOW! A new way to finance traveling! I am impressed.

And you are correct - it is Hangzhou.

elaine


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## lily28

Hangzhou is about 3 hour by bus and 90 minutes by fast train from shanghai.
It has  West Lake, temples, silk products and foods.  You can hire a car to circle the west lake and make sightseeing stops along the way.  There are also little boats for hire to cruise the west lake; make sure to make stops at the small islands there as well.  you can also take shuttle ferry to the island as well.   There are also very nice restaurants along the west lake as well.  If you want silk products, Hangzhou is the place to get them, especially silk comforters and silk screens.


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## ScubaKat

This thread is making me want to go to China.. My brother relocated to Shanghai with his job and have been trying to get us to visit.  I am so not interested in seeing another big city but definitely want to visit the historical sites...  We are heading to Taiwan to visit family for close to a month this December... Was going to do Phuket has a side trip.. Now maybe we should do China instead... Hmm..  Soooo not looking forward to the flight with our 2 year old!!  We used to visit once a year before dd was born..  Now kinda regretting not going when she was still immobile..


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## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> Hangzhou is about 3 hour by bus and 90 minutes by fast train from shanghai.
> It has  West Lake, temples, silk products and foods.  You can hire a car to circle the west lake and make sightseeing stops along the way.  There are also little boats for hire to cruise the west lake; make sure to make stops at the small islands there as well.  you can also take shuttle ferry to the island as well.   There are also very nice restaurants along the west lake as well.  If you want silk products, Hangzhou is the place to get them, especially silk comforters and silk screens.



I am so glad to know this. I had never heard of Hangzhou before. With your initial positive remarks, I was motivated to go look for information. 

It looks like it maybe the prettiest natural area we may see. 

I really dislike shopping --- and even I can be lured in by the thought of a silk comforter!

Thanks!

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

ScubaKat said:


> This thread is making me want to go to China.. My brother relocated to Shanghai with his job and have been trying to get us to visit.  I am so not interested in seeing another big city but definitely want to visit the historical sites...  We are heading to Taiwan to visit family for close to a month this December... Was going to do Phuket has a side trip.. Now maybe we should do China instead... Hmm..  Soooo not looking forward to the flight with our 2 year old!!  We used to visit once a year before dd was born..  Now kinda regretting not going when she was still immobile..



There is an amazing amount of things to see and do in China.

When I first started planning this trip, the thought of not being able to read signs and speak the language was overwhelming. 

With English speaking guide recommendations, I am much less intimidated now. 

I am thrilled to be going. I have dreamt of going to China for 30 years ... and now it is less than a month away1

elaine


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## Jwerking

glypnirsgirl said:


> There is an amazing amount of things to see and do in China.
> 
> When I first started planning this trip, the thought of not being able to read signs and speak the language was overwhelming.
> 
> With English speaking guide recommendations, I am much less intimidated now.
> 
> I am thrilled to be going. I have dreamt of going to China for 30 years ... and now it is less than a month away1
> 
> elaine



You just need to be adventuresome to overcome the language barrier - some do it better than others.  My husband hated it and never wants to go back.  

I have a funny story.  We always had the hotel write down in Chinese where we wanted to go and then showed the hotel business card to the taxi driver to return.  The day we visited the Forbidden City, I could see from my tour book that we were relatively close to a very popular Peking Duck restaurant.  My girls said there was no way we could go since we didn't have the name written for the taxi driver in English.  Whatever - I showed the driver the tour book - pointed to where we were and pointed to where I wanted to go on the map.  He shook his head yes and we got in.  On the way, I told him in Cantonese that I wanted to eat and made a quacking noise like a duck.  I thought my daughters were going to faint from embarrassment and told me that ducks probably don't quack in Chinese.  Anyway, he took us directly to the restaurant - so see, anything is possible - just be creative. 

However, about 20% of the drivers did not want to bother with us with our lack of language.  They would just wave us off even after they had stopped to pick us up.  It was sort of rude - but whatever.  I would think that since the Olympics, it is much easier to get around and signage is much better.  I believe now that one can take the subway in Beijing, but 8 yrs ago, nothing was in English.

I agree about the shopping on the bus tours - it is a fact of life.  If you can really get a private guide for $100 per day ( like someone posted), it is a no brainer. 

Joyce


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## lily28

Elaine. If you have extra time in Shanghai, you can consider taking a side trip to Suzhou which is about 1 hour away from Shanghai by bus/car.  This city is known for its sceneries and formal chinese gardens.  Suzhou and Hangzhou were known as heavenly cities on earth in Ancient China because of their beautiful sceneries and pretty women.
When you go to the Forbidden city /palace museum in Beijing, make sure to enter it from the front but leave from the back entrance.  Don't double back to the front gate.  There is a small park across the street from the back entrance of Forbidden City.  This park has a tree where the last Ming emperor hanged himself when the Qing emperor / invaders took control of China in 1500's.  However, this tree was not the originally one as that one was destroyed during the cultural revolution.  I thought it was interesting to learn some of the Chinese history.


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## glypnirsgirl

Here is what the itinerary looks like as of now. I would appreciate suggestions:

Day 1 Arrive Shanghai - recuperate (hotel selected by H's company)

Day 2 Train to Hangzhou (about 1.5 hours), shop at silk market, enjoy West Lake, take boat ride on lake
Staying Dragon Hotel
Eating?

Day 3 Hangzhou ??? - unsure what to do on this day
Staying Dragon Hotel

Day 4 return to Shanghai, flight to Xi'an
Staying Sofitel Rejnmin Square

Day 5 - Terra Cotta Warriors and Ming Tombs

Day 6 - Flight to Beijing - staying Raffles Hotel

Day 7 - Tian'anmen Square
Forbidden City
Hutongs
Niujie Ox Street
Dadong Peking Duck dinner

Day 8 - 
Mutianyu Great Wall
Ming Tombs

Day 9
Temple of Heaven
Olympic Stadium
Summer Palace

Day 10
Panjiayuan Market
798 Art District
Silk Market

Day 11 depart for Tokyo

The Beijing itinerary is the itinerary that was suggested to us by the guide recommended by CatLovers. 

Because of Joyce's suggestion of using the audio tours for the Forbidden City, I chose a hotel so close that I cannot get lost and I will not need a guide on that day. 

Ian's co-workers are making flash cards for me for some common phrases, names and addresses of our hotels and the names of the sightst that we want to see in case I get lost. 

Thanks everyone for your help. I am more excited and less nervous as this is coming together. 

I found out today that I will need flu shot, hepatitis A and hepatitis B and I will need to go to the public health department to get all 3. 

I am printing out the visa application now that I have the hotel reservations. 

elaine


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## lily28

Elaine.  You can go to Lin Yin Temple in Hangzhou.  If I remember correctly, it is about 30-45 minutes away from the West Lake.  It is near one of the mountain, has multiple temples along the mountain, with pagodas and grottos.  When we join tours (us tours to china), this place is usually on the initinary.  In turn of eating, there is a very good and famous restaurant on the West Lake but I forgot the name.  It has 2 stories and you can request a table on the 2nd floor balcony overlook the West Lake.  Try the fish soup, shrimps and the 2 layer pork dish (half fatty meat, half lean meat that practically melt in your mouth).

I notice you don't have much time in Shanghai, but do try to see the Bund.  You can also try the famou crab and pork dumplings at a restaurant near the Yu Garden.

I have one suggestion on your beijing initinary.  I think you will felel rushed to have both summer palace (which is in the suburb ) and the temple of heaven (which is in city center) the same day.  You can easily spend 2/3 of day at the summer palace.  Since you mention you don't like to shop, you can go to temple of heaven on your last day in Beijing.  The silk market opens pretty late; it was still full of people when we left there at 8:30 in June of this year.  If you going to shop at the silk market, you need to bargain hard.  Start at 20% of the offered price and bargain upward.  I think you will overpay if you only get 50% off.  When I was there in June, I ended up paying 120 yuans ($20 us) when I was originally quoted 680 yuan for a nice handbag.  Some of our tour members ended up paying only 150 yuan for a 26 inch wheeled expandible suitcase.


----------



## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> Elaine.  You can go to Lin Yin Temple in Hangzhou.  If I remember correctly, it is about 30-45 minutes away from the West Lake.  It is near one of the mountain, has multiple temples along the mountain, with pagodas and grottos.  When we join tours (us tours to china), this place is usually on the initinary.  In turn of eating, there is a very good and famous restaurant on the West Lake but I forgot the name.  It has 2 stories and you can request a table on the 2nd floor balcony overlook the West Lake.  Try the fish soup, shrimps and the 2 layer pork dish (half fatty meat, half lean meat that practically melt in your mouth).
> 
> I notice you don't have much time in Shanghai, but do try to see the Bund.  You can also try the famou crab and pork dumplings at a restaurant near the Yu Garden.
> 
> I have one suggestion on your beijing initinary.  I think you will felel rushed to have both summer palace (which is in the suburb ) and the temple of heaven (which is in city center) the same day.  You can easily spend 2/3 of day at the summer palace.  Since you mention you don't like to shop, you can go to temple of heaven on your last day in Beijing.  The silk market opens pretty late; it was still full of people when we left there at 8:30 in June of this year.  If you going to shop at the silk market, you need to bargain hard.  Start at 20% of the offered price and bargain upward.  I think you will overpay if you only get 50% off.  When I was there in June, I ended up paying 120 yuans ($20 us) when I was originally quoted 680 yuan for a nice handbag.  Some of our tour members ended up paying only 150 yuan for a 26 inch wheeled expandible suitcase.



What wonderful advice. 

I like the idea of separating Temple of Heaven from the Summer Palace if they are far apart. I can spend hours looking at architecture, almost as long looking at museums. 

The advice for the silk market is helpful, too. I would have never started this low in negotiating. 

I am hoping to get silk comforters for my family for Christmas. Which market will be best for getting these?

Reading your post made me realize that last night, I did not get the dumplings that I ordered at Port Arthur (a wonderful Chinese restaurant in Newport News, VA). 

I am looking forward to this trip. Ian leaves this week. He will be in Hong Kong and Shenzen for 3 weeks without me.

(historically, it is when Ian goes to China that I end up with really good deals on timeshares from ebay. I am trying to restrain myself by not even looking to see what is there).

elaine


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## lily28

Elaine.  You probably should only get the silk comforters in big department stores or government silk comforter stores that are in big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hangzhou in order to assure the silk comforter' degree of purity. You want 100% silk comforters, don't get the mixture one.  You can get queen and king size; they come in chinese pound.  You can buy a 1 pound silk queen one for the summer, or buy 2 1-pound one to use both for the winter.  Few years ago, these stores push for the sale of silk comforters.  Now they are trying to sell the silk cover in addition to the comforters. The silk duvet cover costs more than the comforter but it feels very good and soft against skin. Silk comforter only costs about $100 us. Silk Comforter sizes in china are slightly smaller than those in the U.S.  I bought the silk comforter and silk duvet cover at a silk comforter store In Beijing in June of this year (both costed me $200 us and my cousin bought a set for $400); then I bought another cotton duvet cover at a regular department store with a much lower cost (about $40). Also, the store will vacuum the bag and compress them into smaller size for easier transport home.  You can bargain at these silk store.  My cousin and I were able to bargain down the price and got them to throw in 2 free cushions capable of becoming a small quilt and 2 free silk pillow cases each.


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## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> Elaine.  You probably should only get the silk comforters in big department stores or government silk comforter stores that are in big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hangzhou in order to assure the silk comforter' degree of purity. You want 100% silk comforters, don't get the mixture one.  You can get queen and king size; they come in chinese pound.  You can buy a 1 pound silk queen one for the summer, or buy 2 1-pound one to use both for the winter.  Few years ago, these stores push for the sale of silk comforters.  Now they are trying to sell the silk cover in addition to the comforters. The silk duvet cover costs more than the comforter but it feels very good and soft against skin. Silk comforter only costs about $100 us. Silk Comforter sizes in china are slightly smaller than those in the U.S.  I bought the silk comforter and silk duvet cover at a silk comforter store In Beijing in June of this year (both costed me $200 us and my cousin bought a set for $400); then I bought another cotton duvet cover at a regular department store with a much lower cost (about $40). Also, the store will vacuum the bag and compress them into smaller size for easier transport home.  You can bargain at thee silk store.  My couin and I were able to bargain down the price and got them to throw in 2 free cushions capable of becoming a small quilt and 2 free silk pillow cases each.



You are my hero! 

I was wondering how I was going to carry 6 silk comforters around for almost 2 weeks because I thought that I would be buying then in Hangzhou. Beijing is our last stop in China and it will be much easier to deal with them just for the flight home - especially if they will vacuum them for me. That will make them easier to wrap, also.

Thanks!

elaine


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## yoohoo

I know you stated that you did not like to shop on the tours.  However, buying while in a tour group you will at least insure that you will not be cheated.  When buying by yourself, you need to be careful that the item is not fake or made with inferior material.  Not to say it will not happen with a tour, but the chance of it happening is much less.

Since someone mentioned Suzhou, there a silk factory where they make comforters.  Also in Suzhou there is a famous garden.


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## glypnirsgirl

yoohoo said:


> I know you stated that you did not like to shop on the tours.  However, buying while in a tour group you will at least insure that you will not be cheated.  When buying by yourself, you need to be careful that the item is not fake or made with inferior material.  Not to say it will not happen with a tour, but the chance of it happening is much less.
> 
> Since someone mentioned Suzhou, there a silk factory where they make comforters.  Also in Suzhou there is a famous garden.



This seems counter-intuitive to me. I always thought that the tour groups probably sent you to the inferior places because the inferior places would need to pay for the privilege of an influx of customers?

I will need to look up Suzhou.

elaine


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## yoohoo

In the tours that we went on, they always took us to the better quality shops.  They want people with money.  If you can afford a tour, you have money.  Also the tour companies do not want bad feedback.  We usually join a Chinese speaking tour, and we ask around as to who gives the better tours.  We used the same tour company a number of times over the years.  Also you will not always get the best deal through a shop pushed by the tour company.  We got lucky on the rug that we got.  They rejected our final offer, but chased us onto the bus and accepted it.  We watched the staff pack the rug into a suitcase, which came home as part of our checked baggage.

By the way the garden in Suzhou is called Garden of the Master of the Nets.  It does get lost in the translation.


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## glypnirsgirl

yoohoo said:


> In the tours that we went on, they always took us to the better quality shops.  They want people with money.  If you can afford a tour, you have money.  Also the tour companies do not want bad feedback.  We usually join a Chinese speaking tour, and we ask around as to who gives the better tours.  We used the same tour company a number of times over the years.  Also you will not always get the best deal through a shop pushed by the tour company.  We got lucky on the rug that we got.  They rejected our final offer, but chased us onto the bus and accepted it.  We watched the staff pack the rug into a suitcase, which came home as part of our checked baggage.
> 
> By the way the garden in Suzhou is called Garden of the Master of the Nets.  It does get lost in the translation.



Do you think that this strategy would work as well with an English speaking tour group?

What city is Suzhou near?

elaine


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## lily28

Elaine, Suzhou is 11/2 hour from Shanghai by bus.  You can do a 1 day tour.  Tour companies usually take us to designated tourism shops.  tour guides do get a commission.  I hate the fact that even in these shops, I have to bargain.  The exception might be the silk comforters; I think they are set in price.  However, the silk duvet, you can bargain.


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## glypnirsgirl

*Getting my visa*

Today I took my visa application to a visa processing service. For anyone that is interested in going to China, it is important to know that the visa process may take many days and is relatively expensive.

To get my visa within a week, I paid $160 to the service. Some of that wll go to China, some goes to the service. Not a big deal, but it is important to know.

The shocking thing for me is the stringency of the application. Every box must be answered - even if the question is asked once, if there is more than one box, it is not sufficient to put n/a in the first box. Every box must be answered. 

In addition to a thoroughly completed visa application and the money, they will also need a passport photo and your passport. 

I am glad the application has been turned in. Now I am just waiting.

Lily - I have looked at our itinarary and Suzhou will just be impossible for us. 

elaine


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## davhu1

Elaine, My suggestions:

Day 1 Arrive Shanghai

Day 2 Shanghai - Bund, Nanking Road, Yu Garden, Shanghai Old Street (Chinese style buildings.  Lighted at night, so stay till night time.  Catch the Shanghai Acrobatic Show if not staying till night time.

Day 2 Train to Hangzhou (about 1.5 hours), shop at silk market, enjoy West Lake, take boat ride on lake.
Shop for small item only.  Like others said, buy your blanket in your last city, Beijing.  The luggage weight for domestic flights are less, I think 40 pounds.

You do not need two days in Hangzhou.

Day 3 Suzhou - Humble Administrator’s Garden, Hanshan Temple, Cruise the Grand Canal.

Day 4 return to Shanghai, flight to Xi'an.  Staying Sofitel Rejnmin Square (We stayed there in May.  Very nice. Try the breakfast buffet.)  If you get in early, go see Shaanxi History Museum, Big Wild Goose Pagoda and/or walk the Old City wall.  Try the dumpling banquet and see the Tang Dynasty Show.

Day 5 - Terra Cotta Warriors, Ming Tombs, and Hua Qin Hot Springs.  Try the Shaanxi hot pot for dinner tonight.

Day 6 - Flight to Beijing - staying Raffles Hotel
Lama Temple

Day 7 - Tian'anmen Square, Forbidden City, Hutongs, Niujie Ox Street, Beihai Park.

Day 8 - Mutianyu Great Wall, Ming Tombs, Temple of Heaven.  Peking Duck Dinner.

Day 9 – Summer Place, Olympic Stadium. How about the Legend of Kung Fu Show?

Day 10 –Panjiayuan Market, 798 Art District, Silk Market, Qianmen Street (buildings styles from the late Qing Dyanasty)

Day 11 depart for Tokyo


Enjoy your trip.  We did a 21-day trip to Hong Kong and China back in May.  14-day tour and one week on our own.  I am still trying to loose the 10+ lbs I gained.


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## glypnirsgirl

Some parts of this trip are connected to Ian's business meetings and that is why Suzhou is impossible.

As a matter of fact, after booking my flight to Shanghai, Ian's customer in Hangzhou requested that they meet a day earlier. 

As a result, I will now be going directly from the Pudong Airport to the train station and I will not see any of Shanghai - disappointing. 

I will fly for 17 hours, go through customs which I have estimated will take one hour. I added another hour for possible delays. And another hour for the trip to the train station. I have hired a car and driver to take me from the airport to the train station. And the driver is purchasing the train tickets in advance for me. 

I will travel by train, arriving late evening in Hangzhou and I will meet Ian at the hotel in Hangzhou - the hotel that his company booked him into, Shangri-La. The next 2 nights, we will be staying at the Dragon Hotel. The two hotels appear to be fairly close together and I will be responsible for moving our luggage between hotels. 

I am not anticipating being able to do anything the first day of my arrival because I will be traveling the entire day. 

After traveling for what will amount to 3 days by the time that i get checked into the hotel. I doubt that I will be ready to tour on the second day that I am in China, either. Luckily, West Lake and one of the prettiest gardens is right by the hotel - so I will be able to enjoy it while transporting the luggage between hotels. 

I am interested in a few of the "shows" - Chinese opera is of most interest. Then the acrobats. I am not much of a martial arts fan - would I still enjoy the Kung Fu show?

elaine


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## lily28

Elaine.  If you use ff miles to book the ticket, you should be able to change it without penalty if you fly united or American airline.  You might find Chinese opera to be a little boring.  Even I have no idea what they are singing about sometimes.  The kung fu show in Beijing is ok.  Arobat how is better.  There is a Tang dynasty musical with dinner in Xian you might find it more entertaining.


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## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> Elaine.  If you use ff miles to book the ticket, you should be able to change it without penalty if you fly united or American airline.  You might find Chinese opera to be a little boring.  Even I have no idea what they are singing about sometimes.  The kung fu show in Beijing is ok.  Arobat how is better.  There is a Tang dynasty musical with dinner in Xian you might find it more entertaining.



Thanks for these recommendatins Lily. Ihad never heard of the musical in Xi'an.

Ian left yesterday for the first few weeks of his trip. 

He was totally psyched from the flight. He used his own FF miles to book the trip so that he could fly first class. 

Ian usually is totally burned out after the flight - but not this time. He was so happy that he talked to me for about 45 minutes to describe everything about the flight - they provide pajamas! Who knew?

elaine


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## davhu1

glypnirsgirl said:


> I am interested in a few of the "shows" - Chinese opera is of most interest. Then the acrobats. I am not much of a martial arts fan - would I still enjoy the Kung Fu show?elaine



Chinese opera can be boring.  The Legends of Kung Fu in Bejing has a story line and combines with ballet and dance.   There is a preview here and see if you are interested.  
http://thebeijingguide.com/shows/kungfu.html

Tang Dynasty show.  You can see the show with or without dinner. 
http://www.xiantangdynasty.com/Column.aspx?ColId=37


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## glypnirsgirl

davhu1 said:


> Chinese opera can be boring.  The Legends of Kung Fu in Bejing has a story line and combines with ballet and dance.   There is a preview here and see if you are interested.
> http://thebeijingguide.com/shows/kungfu.html
> 
> Tang Dynasty show.  You can see the show with or without dinner.
> http://www.xiantangdynasty.com/Column.aspx?ColId=37



Loved the Legends of Kung Fu show link - it looks amazing!

i would love to have something to do in the evening in Xi'an, so I am interested in the Tang Dynasty show as well.

Thanks!
elaine


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## CatLovers

glypnirsgirl said:


> i would love to have something to do in the evening in Xi'an



Go out for a mutton hot-pot dinner -- it was QUITE the delicious experience!


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## lily28

You can also do the mongolian hot pot in Beijing too.  There is a hot pot restaurant within Wangfuching shopping area that is pretty good.

My family joined a beijing tour this past June.  There were a couple mandatory excursions we went to, including the Beijing Kung Fu Show. The show was interesting and my daughter liked it.  We went to an afternoon show, the theater is half empty.  We were in the yellow zone and could see the show pretty well as the middle seats were mostly empty.


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## glypnirsgirl

CatLovers said:


> Go out for a mutton hot-pot dinner -- it was QUITE the delicious experience!



Interesting. Ian is very adventurous when it comes to eating. Me? Not so much. 

I like lamb, but mutton? How do the tastes compare? Is there something special about the "hot pot.?"

elaine


----------



## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> You can also do the mongolian hot pot in Beijing too.  There is a hot pot restaurant within Wangfuching shopping area that is pretty good.
> 
> My family joined a beijing tour this past June.  There were a couple mandatory excursions we went to, including the Beijing Kung Fu Show. The show was interesting and my daughter liked it.  We went to an afternoon show, the theater is half empty.  We were in the yellow zone and could see the show pretty well as the middle seats were mostly empty.



Hi Lily - what tour group did you join? Were you happy with it? 

I am not familiar with the "hot pot" concept - can you explain?

I looked at the seating chart for the Red Theatre. There is a zone called the red zone where there appears to be more space between seats - is that true?

elaine


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## lily28

Hi Elaine.  I joined a specialized subsidized tour for overseas Chinese to Beijing and to a couple nearby cities for 8 days in June that only costed me $99 per adult person but $199 for kids.  We have many shopping stops though.  Even including the mandatory excursions / tips, the trip was worth it.

Hot pot means cook the meats yourself.  There are specialized pots with charcoal within a central funnel or a simple pot on top of a hot plate.  You order the meats / vegetables and cook them yourself.  There are special sauces you can dip the meats in.  It is very good.  Whenever I go to Beijing, I eat peking ducks, dumplings (not as good as the dimsum in southern part of China), hot pot and Korean grill meats (there are large population of Koreans in Beijing so there are many Korean restaurents there).  I always gain weight whenever I go to China and then have to try to lose weight when I am back in the U.S.

In turn of the seating in the kung fu show, I did not pay attention to the width between seats.  I personally do not think it is worth the premium for the red zone seats (alway $80 us per ticket).  Some of people in my tour fell asleep during the show.


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## CatLovers

glypnirsgirl said:


> I like lamb, but mutton? How do the tastes compare? Is there something special about the "hot pot.?"



The hot pot is a style of cooking.  There is a boiling pot of water on your table and you cook everything (meats and veggies) yourself by putting it into the hot water.  It's not boiled food though, it's much much more delicious.  I've obviously oversimplified, but it really is VERY good!

Mutton is quite tame, as lamb and mutton both come from sheep -- except that lamb is young sheep (less than one year) and mutton is adult.  I actually find the taste and texture of mutton to be more akin to beef than to lamb.

Now that I checked my notes, we actually had the mutton hot-pot dinner in Beijing.  In Xi'an, I think we went to Muslim street for dinner.  Also delicious!


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## bjones9942

Hot pot isn't water in any of the Asian restaurants I've been to here in Seattle - it's usually broth of some sort.  Here's a Wikipedia link.


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## lily28

for the hot pot broth, you can choose regular broth, spicy broth or half regular/half spicy.  The spicy broth is very very hot; it can cause your tongue to be numb.


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## CatLovers

bjones9942 said:


> Hot pot isn't water in any of the Asian restaurants I've been to here in Seattle - it's usually broth of some sort.



Yes broth!  I obviously oversimplified  !


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## bjones9942

lily28 said:


> for the hot pot broth, you can choose regular broth, spicy broth or half regular/half spicy.  The spicy broth is very very hot; it can cause your tongue to be numb.



I enjoy sichuan peppercorns as well as heat.  I do like to be able to still taste the food though 



			
				CatLovers said:
			
		

> Yes broth! I obviously oversimplified!



Water just gave me the impression of something plain - which hot-pot usually is not


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## glypnirsgirl

Sounds delicious - like fondue but with broth instead of oil?

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

*new question*

One of the tour guides that we have decided upon has asked that we send him his fees via Western Union prior to traveling - is this normal procedure?

elaine


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## lily28

When we hired taxi for the day in china, we paid at the end.  Same for local guides, however we usually hired them at the attractions, not prearranged.  I only paid in full in advance for tours only. If your tour guides are not arranged by tour company, I probably will feel more comfortable to pay them in person.


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## glypnirsgirl

lily28 said:


> When we hired taxi for the day in china, we paid at the end.  Same for local guides, however we usually hired them at the attractions, not prearranged.  I only paid in full in advance for tours only. If your tour guides are not arranged by tour company, I probably will feel more comfortable to pay them in person.



thanks, lily. I wasn't feeling comfortable. At the same time, I can understand a person that only has their time to sale wants to lock in a commitment. 

elaine


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## lily28

Elaine.  November is slow season in China and it can be cold in Beijing (like Chicago).  So I can't imagine that tour guides are hard to book in November.  I can understand if it is the summer or holiday season.  I don't know how much money is involved but I would be uncomfortable to pay everything upfront and wire the money to someone I have never met.  Maybe a deposit instead?


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## Passepartout

Elaine, not to be too alarmist, but especially in Beijing, and to a lesser degree in cities elsewhere, try to limit your outdoor time as much as you can. The air there- how can I say this- stinks. You will see few- if any- birds. Of the roughly 50 people who accompanied us for a month there in 2002, almost all had respiratory problems toward the end of our visit and it lasted weeks after our return home.

Winter air is worse than other seasons, and since we were there, car sales have put roughly 1000 new vehicles on the roads every day. 

China is a wonderful country- by that I mean it is full of wonder, but pollution IS a problem.

Jim


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## glypnirsgirl

Thanks for your reminder, Jim. This morning the travel nurse warned me about the air - it is bad for everyone and I have two chronic respiratory ailments. I bought medical masks and tomorrow I will need to get my inhaler refilled. And I had already forgotten to get my inhaler refill called in today. I probably would not have thought of it until I was on the plane.

I also got shots, I had my flu shot earlier just by walking into Walgreens. Ian wanted me to get it early because it takes some time to build up immunity. So, today, seven shots - Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, yellow fever, Japanese encephalitis, TB, tetanus booster and polio booster. My arms are sore.


I am now starting to pack. I am so excited!

elaine


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## Passepartout

glypnirsgirl said:


> My arms are sore.
> 
> elaine



I bet. Sure seems odd to have to get all these immunizations to visit a country that is seemingly in the forefront of the world's technologies and economies. But that's the way it is.

Have fun and bring back lots of memories.

Jim


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## glypnirsgirl

*Thanks for the advice!*

thanks everyone, I have an itinerary I am very happy with. I have guides lined up for the various days we need guides. I have all of my shots. And I am starting to pack. 

Jim, thanks for the advice about the air. I have a breathing condition and environmental onset asthma, so I bought 3 hospital grade masks. Now I just need to get up the nerve to wear them. 

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

*I have come unhinged!*

First a little background. I am one of those "crunchy mamas." I have gardened organically for more than 20 years. The organic produce that I buy I wash in an organic cleaner and then rinse at least three times. And I drive a natural gas car. Mow my lawn with a reel mower --- a green nut. And I have been for 40 years.

So, I go to the travel health clinic to get the shots. And they have a nurse that talks to you about safety measures. Among the things that she talks about are all of the mosquito and tick borne illnesses. And she recommends a spray for treating my luggage and outer clothing. And i can use the same spray as a knock-down spray for treating our room. And, like an idiot, I buy this stuff.

I bought it a couple of days ago. Today was the day for spraying my clothes. I take my suitcase outside and spray the outside of it first.  As soon as I start spraying, I realize that i have just sprayed my suitcase with a highly toxic chemical ---exactly the kind of thing that I have been avoiding for 40 years. I am not about to spray the stuff on my clothes. And now I have 3 quarts of this highly toxic chemical in my house.  

I did get a couple of things that may be useful. A UV water purifier. Sterile wipes. Antibiotics. 

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

*Who to tip?*

I know that tipping is generally not expected for servers and taxi drivers.

I have questions about the following:

tour guides?
concierges?
housekeepers?
bell services?

Guidance appreciated


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## lily28

Elaine. I never use concierge, so can't comment on it.  No tip needed for housekeepers in Chinese hotels. I pay usually $1-2 per bags in better hotels. When I join tours to China, a daily mandatory tip of $8-10 per person for the local guide and the guide that accompany us the whole trip, the bus driver and baggage fee.  If I hire a local guide at a local attraction, then no tip needed and the fees are negotiated on the spot. 
By the way, make sure to try massages in China (foot massage and whole body).  A 1 hour foot massage include 20 minuites soaking plus about 40 min massages for both feet.  When your feet are being soaked in medicine water, you get a massage on your neck and back.  They are very good and very inexpensive in comparison to that in the U.S.  I live on massages whenever I am in China and go on withdrawal when I return to the U.S.


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## glypnirsgirl

*Thanks for your help!*

We are in Chicago awaiting the last leg of the trip home. And our plane has been delayed due to high winds here. I feel like I am going to fall over. I am so glad that y'all encouraged me to fly first class. I really feel sorry for the people that have had the same thing happen to them after being cooped up for 12 hours (we came back through Narita).

I found China to be amazing. Using a website called "agoda" I booked really nice hotels and very reasonable rates - in every place except for Xi'an which was booked up and no rooms were inexpensive. 

In Hangzhou, we stayed in two different hotels: the Shangri-La which was booked by Ian's employer. It was fantastic. Older and the location was right on the park. The next two nights while we were on our own, we stayed at the Dragon Hotel - beautiful hotel and the rooms was extremely spacious. The location was not nearly as good as Shangri-La. It is very modern and left me a little cold because of all of the hard surfaces. But the bed was great. And the tub was great, too. 

In Beijing, we stayed at the Raffles Hotel. Stunning - the manager gave us a tour of the hotel at check-in. She said that it was the only historic hotel in Beijing - it had originally been built as a French hotel in the early 20th century. This was our favorite hotel of the trip. Great location - about 1/2 mile from Forbidden City and Tiannamen Square. Close to the Hutongs. The Summer Palace was far, but still not too bad.

In Xi'an and Beijing, we used a state sponsored official guide both of whom were recommended to me by people on this thread - thank you! The guides were great. It made moving through the city absolutely painless. 

It was a fast trip. We saw just highlights of each city. 

West Lake and tea farms in Hangzhou. 

In Xi'an, it was the Terra Cotta Warriors and Wild Goose Temple. The old city wall. The Bell and Drum Towers. The desire to see the Terra Cotta Warriors was the driving force behind this trip. Because they are primitive, Ian just did not get my fascination with them. It took me awhile to explain but my fascination is as much about their discovery as it is about the art and history. I bought one of the tour books and had it signed by one of the farmers who made the original discovery - that was fun.

In Beijing, I thought that I would like the Forbidden City the best. And I loved it. It was developed over so many years --- and every thing looks as if it was all done at once. The newer parts were built in 1776 - amazing to me.

My favorite turned out to be the Great Wall at Mutanyu. I loved the views of the wall and from the walll. I even felt that the small stalls on the way up to the wall really enhanced the experience. 

In a restaurant really close to the wall, Ian ate donkey. I wasn't willing to try it. He said it tasted like meat. 

We saw the Summer Palace - prettier location than Forbidden City and much more accessible. It was fun to walk through the park there and look at the lake.

It was a great trip. I took more than 900 pictures. I will be editing them before posting to photobucket.

elaine


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## Passepartout

Welcome Home! Glad it was all you hoped for! It turned out to be a life-changing trip for us- in a good way- and we can only hope you caught a little of it too. We are looking forward to hearing about it- after you get rested.

Jim


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## flexible

We are now in China - 17 Mar-4 May 2012

Arrived nonstop from REP - Siem Reap, Cambodia - great flight but 4:00 AM arrival was too early to take the Shanghai Maglev from PVG to Shanghai hotels - http://www.smtdc.com/en/ (if you show your airline boarding pass you even get a discount on the maglev ride)

17 March 2012 - Marriott Courtyard Shanghai-Pudong 838 Dong Fang Road,Pudong New Area Shanghai, 200122 China 

18-25 March 2012 - http://www.wuzhenpengda.com - a DAE exchange
No.466, Longyuan Road,Wuzhen,Tongxiang city, ChinaPh: 0573-88468846  -Marriott told us to take the subway's Line 2 to the Hongqiao Interntional Airport (aka SHA Shanghai International Airport) Train Station. It took me a while to realize these were interchangeable names and not different airports. This train station should get us closer to the Tongxiang City timeshare.

We will be asking the Marriott concierge to help us get train tickets and get directions written in Chinese & English since the number one complaint people seem to mention for timeshare exchanges in China is getting lost and not being able to find someone who can speak English to direct them to the hotel/exchange. Perhaps this only happens in the more remote locations? 

Information on the DAE site had: "By Train: When you arrive at Yantai Railway Station, you can transfer to Penglai by coach, ticket can be purchased at Bei Malu Coach Station with walking distance from the railway station. Coach departures every 15 minutes, costs RMB 18 and the travel time is 1 hour and 20 minutes. We suggest to take taxi or Bus No. 5 from Penglai Coach Station to Jingangwan Hotel, taxi costs approx. RMB 7. By Air: Take a taxi from Yantai Laishan Airport to Yantai Coach Station and take coach to penglai. Coach from Yantai to Penglai runs every 15 minutes between 6:00 to 18:00 daily. Price is RMB 18." 

Since these 2 timeshare exchanges overlap by 2 days, we will wait until we get there to figure out how long at each resort. I am still uncertain what we will see or do 18-30 March.

23-30 March 2012 - RCI Exchange: 
Ramada Hotel WuxiResort ID:A535No.190 Xicheng RoadWuxi,Jiangsu 214041ChinaPhone: 51083135555Website: www.ramadawuxi.comUnit: RESERVE Bedroom :HOTEL;NONE Kitchen Sleeps: 2 Maximum/ 2 Private  

30 March 2012 - Marriott Courtyard Shanghai-Pudong 838 Dong Fang Road,Pudong New Area Shanghai, 200122 China - We plan to leave as much as our luggage here as possible. We left home 15 Nov 2011 & have mostly been in tropical climates since. Shanghai is fairly overcast today. Perhaps it is time to buy a new wardrobe considering we are going to Tibet?

http://CruiseCritic.com did not have "Roll Calls" for RCCL Legend of the Seas - Shanghai roundtrips - perhaps because most of the passengers do not speak English? 

31 March- 7 April 2012 - Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCCL) Legend of the Seas - Shanghai RT - Cabin 7532

Date Port Arrive Depart Activity
31-Mar Shanghai, China 8:00 PM
01-Apr Cruising Cruising
02-Apr Xiamen, China 8:00 AM 3:00 PM Docked
03-Apr Cruising Cruising
04-Apr Kagoshima, Japan 11:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiran_Special_Attack_Peace_Museum
05-Apr Beppu, Japan 11:00 AM 5:00 PM Docked
06-Apr Cruising Cruising
07-Apr Shanghai, China 5:00 AM

7-Apr - Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCCL) Legend of the Seas - Shanghai RT - Cabin 7532 
9-Apr - Kagoshima, Japan
10 Apr - Jeju Island, South Korea
http://wikitravel.org/en/Jeju
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jeju+island+korea&qpvt=jeju+island+korea&FORM=IGRE
12 Apr Shanghai, China
Viking River Cruises - Four Seasons Hotel

12-27 April 2012 - Viking River Cruises
Shanghai Four Seasons Hotel
Yangze River Cruise
Tibet
Xian
Beijing

27 April - 5 May 2012 - RCI Points timeshare exchange 
Blg-Beijing Longtou Apartment
Nanxinyuan West Road
Beijing Beijing 100021 China

4 May 2012 - Beijing Airport
PEK- HKG via Dragon Air (part of Cathay Pacific) 
HKG - SFO on Cathay Pacific


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## glypnirsgirl

flexible said:


> We are now in China - 17 Mar-4 May 2012
> 
> Arrived nonstop from REP - Siem Reap, Cambodia - great flight but 4:00 AM arrival was too early to take the Shanghai Maglev from PVG to Shanghai hotels - http://www.smtdc.com/en/ (if you show your airline boarding pass you even get a discount on the maglev ride)
> 
> 17 March 2012 - Marriott Courtyard Shanghai-Pudong 838 Dong Fang Road,Pudong New Area Shanghai, 200122 China
> 
> 18-25 March 2012 - http://www.wuzhenpengda.com - a DAE exchange
> No.466, Longyuan Road,Wuzhen,Tongxiang city, ChinaPh: 0573-88468846  -Marriott told us to take the subway's Line 2 to the Hongqiao Interntional Airport (aka SHA Shanghai International Airport) Train Station. It took me a while to realize these were interchangeable names and not different airports. This train station should get us closer to the Tongxiang City timeshare.
> 
> We will be asking the Marriott concierge to help us get train tickets and get directions written in Chinese & English since the number one complaint people seem to mention for timeshare exchanges in China is getting lost and not being able to find someone who can speak English to direct them to the hotel/exchange. Perhaps this only happens in the more remote locations?
> 
> Information on the DAE site had: "By Train: When you arrive at Yantai Railway Station, you can transfer to Penglai by coach, ticket can be purchased at Bei Malu Coach Station with walking distance from the railway station. Coach departures every 15 minutes, costs RMB 18 and the travel time is 1 hour and 20 minutes. We suggest to take taxi or Bus No. 5 from Penglai Coach Station to Jingangwan Hotel, taxi costs approx. RMB 7. By Air: Take a taxi from Yantai Laishan Airport to Yantai Coach Station and take coach to penglai. Coach from Yantai to Penglai runs every 15 minutes between 6:00 to 18:00 daily. Price is RMB 18."
> 
> Since these 2 timeshare exchanges overlap by 2 days, we will wait until we get there to figure out how long at each resort. I am still uncertain what we will see or do 18-30 March.
> 
> 23-30 March 2012 - RCI Exchange:
> Ramada Hotel WuxiResort ID:A535No.190 Xicheng RoadWuxi,Jiangsu 214041ChinaPhone: 51083135555Website: www.ramadawuxi.comUnit: RESERVE Bedroom :HOTEL;NONE Kitchen Sleeps: 2 Maximum/ 2 Private
> 
> 30 March 2012 - Marriott Courtyard Shanghai-Pudong 838 Dong Fang Road,Pudong New Area Shanghai, 200122 China - We plan to leave as much as our luggage here as possible. We left home 15 Nov 2011 & have mostly been in tropical climates since. Shanghai is fairly overcast today. Perhaps it is time to buy a new wardrobe considering we are going to Tibet?
> 
> http://CruiseCritic.com did not have "Roll Calls" for RCCL Legend of the Seas - Shanghai roundtrips - perhaps because most of the passengers do not speak English?
> 
> 31 March- 7 April 2012 - Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCCL) Legend of the Seas - Shanghai RT - Cabin 7532
> 
> Date Port Arrive Depart Activity
> 31-Mar Shanghai, China 8:00 PM
> 01-Apr Cruising Cruising
> 02-Apr Xiamen, China 8:00 AM 3:00 PM Docked
> 03-Apr Cruising Cruising
> 04-Apr Kagoshima, Japan 11:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiran_Special_Attack_Peace_Museum
> 05-Apr Beppu, Japan 11:00 AM 5:00 PM Docked
> 06-Apr Cruising Cruising
> 07-Apr Shanghai, China 5:00 AM
> 
> 7-Apr - Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCCL) Legend of the Seas - Shanghai RT - Cabin 7532
> 9-Apr - Kagoshima, Japan
> 10 Apr - Jeju Island, South Korea
> http://wikitravel.org/en/Jeju
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jeju+island+korea&qpvt=jeju+island+korea&FORM=IGRE
> 12 Apr Shanghai, China
> Viking River Cruises - Four Seasons Hotel
> 
> 12-27 April 2012 - Viking River Cruises
> Shanghai Four Seasons Hotel
> Yangze River Cruise
> Tibet
> Xian
> Beijing
> 
> 27 April - 5 May 2012 - RCI Points timeshare exchange
> Blg-Beijing Longtou Apartment
> Nanxinyuan West Road
> Beijing Beijing 100021 China
> 
> 4 May 2012 - Beijing Airport
> PEK- HKG via Dragon Air (part of Cathay Pacific)
> HKG - SFO on Cathay Pacific



This looks like a terrific trip! I hope you are having a wonderful time.

I loved my trip to China. There was such a contrast between their new, vibrant cities (Shanghai), and their ancient sites (Xi'an) and country-side.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl

keyon said:


> 10Just buy a >>>!



And thanks to you for bumping this thread --- I had missed flexible's posting.

elaine


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## flexible

flexible said:


> We are now in China - 17 Mar-4 May 2012
> 
> 18-25 March 2012 - http://www.wuzhenpengda.com/ a DAE exchange
> No.466, Longyuan Road,Wuzhen,Tongxiang city, ChinaPh: 0573-88468846  -23-30 March 2012 - RCI Exchange. Ethernet cable in our room. Satellite TV stations were in Chinese only.



We paid 1100 CNY (about $175) for a taxi from Marriott Pudong/Shanghai to Wuzhen Pengda Hotel because it seemed easier than guessing whether we communicate each time we would change from subway/train/bus/bus/to the hotel. Wuzhen is a small town without a railway station.

http://www.wuzhen.com.cn/wuzhen.eng/touring-guide/railway.html might be helpful to others traveling to this area.

http://WuzhenPengda.com (which was a DAE exchange) is across the street from the gate to enter the Wuzhen East & West Scenic Zone: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuzhen  Bus K350 goes to/from the Visitor Center to one of the bus stations about 10 minutes away where we took Bus 282 to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongxiang_Railway_Station to get to http://eng.hangzhou.gov.cn

150 CNY for my entrance fee, 105 CNY for my husband's senior rate entrance fee + 
200 CNY (about $32 US for both of us together)= English speaking guide (Our guide was with us from 9:00 to 3:00 except while he left us while we ate lunch. He returned 45 minutes later to continue our tour.

We were able to purchase bus tickets in advance at the Wuzhen Scenic Center Visitor Center from the Wuzhen bus to Suzhou City. So we were able to take leave the timeshare exchange hotel, walk down the street for the K350 (outside the visitor's center) and show our bus tickets at the station. That made it easier for people to tell us what bus line to stand in. Seats are pre-assigned. 

Once you have taken one bus or train ride, you should be able to recognize which numbers are seat numbers. If you purchase two bus or train tickets the numbers will probably be sequential. However seat 35 might be a window seat in one row and seat 36 is the window seat on the opposite side one row back.

The train car number is usually before the seat number with a space after it. After you figure out which train track to go to, if you look down you will probably see numbers like 1 - 15 or so possible in metal or more visible. You should stand near the number for your train car. You have a limited amount of time to get on the train and it should be easier for you to find your seat if you get on the correct car. The train cars have numbers near on the bottom area near the door. The last numbers usually are the car number. Some of the numbers before that might include the four (or more or less digits) that the train is listed as on the big screen and also on the middle of your ticket.

I am sure someone has written information published in a book or online regarding all of the above, but I was unaware of it. So that is why I am mentioning it in case it might be helpful to a fellow Tugger traveling to China.

We are now at the Ramada Wuxi. Wuxi is much bigger than Wuzhen. Wuxi has a railway station, Starbucks, Walmart, many McDonald's and at least one Starbucks. 

Ramada Hotel Wuxi Resort ID:A535 No.190 Xicheng Road Wuxi,Jiangsu 214041 China Phone: 51083135555 Website: www.ramadawuxi.comUnit: RESERVE Bedroom :HOTEL;NONE Kitchen Sleeps: 2 Maximum/ 2 Private. 

The hotel arranged a full day tour for us tomorrow.  

This was the first time a RCI exchange asked us to show them our RCI membership cards. I was able to access the internet from the front desk so I could show them our membership information on RCI.com. I had the printed confirmation from RCI but I think they were expecting something different. They have been very nice and several employees speak enough English that we are able to communicate.

When traveling in China:

1) Passports were requested when we purchased railway tickets and bus tickets. When we didn't have our passports when we needed bus tickets, they were ok with our only having our California driver's licenses. Foreigners are not allowed to use the self-service ticket kiosks.

2) It is helpful to carry the timeshare exchange location information in both English and CHINESE! Strangers who cannot speak English might be able to point you in the correct direction that way. If you can print a photo of the exterior of your hotel/timeshare on a sheet of paper it might help you communicate to a taxi driver too. Bringing directions from your arrival point (airport/railway station) to your destination from http://maps.google.com might help with a Chinese translation.

When we have found someone who understands some English they have nearly always looked younger than 25 years old. Two of the concierges at Marriott gave us their cell phone numbers which we keep with us (just in case). Nearly everyone has a cell phone in China. I suppose we could get a SIM card so our T-Mobile would work here. But so far, we have encountered doormen at hotels (not where we are staying) willing to call the phone number for the location we are trying to go and then finding a taxi willing to take us there. When we first arrived at Wuxi Rail station, four different taxi drivers declined to give us a ride. Our hotel told us it was because we were less than 3 miles and those drivers wanted more profitable passengers needing to go longer distances. It might be that we misunderstood though.

The Marriott Pudong/Shanghai had cards with "Please drive me to ______" in Chinese and English. There are 10 choices with a check box, then the Chinese translation followed by English for airports, railway stations, maglev, Bund etc.

The same Marriott had a postcard size map with all street names nearby in Chinese and English.

3) Even Chinese women carry rolls of toilet paper when traveling by rail or bus. I've noticed the western style toilet is usually the first or the last if there are five or more stalls. An alternative is to look for a 'disabled person's toilet' outside the men & women's toilets - better stores often have a Western Style toilet for the disabled.


-


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## flexible

glypnirsgirl said:


> It was a great trip. I took more than 900 pictures. I will be editing them before posting to photobucket.
> 
> elaine



Elaine,
Can you please post a link to your photos onhttp://photobucket.com/ ? Sounds like your planning really paid off to make it such a great trip.

I am able to access Photobucket without a VPN (Virtual Private Network) but not http://Webshots.com where I have a lot of previous travel photos. I started posting travel photos only on facebook a few years ago since I could set the privacy settings for who could see them, but I cannot access facebook in China without a VPN either.

-Georgeann


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## glypnirsgirl

flexible said:


> Elaine,
> Can you please post a link to your photos onhttp://photobucket.com/ ? Sounds like your planning really paid off to make it such a great trip.
> 
> I am able to access Photobucket without a VPN (Virtual Private Network) but not http://Webshots.com where I have a lot of previous travel photos. I started posting travel photos only on facebook a few years ago since I could set the privacy settings for who could see them, but I cannot access facebook in China without a VPN either.
> 
> -Georgeann



Hi Georgeann - I ended up using Smilebox --- a really dumb decision --- to edit the photos. I would be happy to send you the albums that you are interested in. 

I loved the trip. I find myself frequently reflecting on the things that i learned there. I especially enjoyed the private guides. Because we were in most cities for several days, we got to know our guides fairly well. I especially learned a lout from our Beijing guide talking about the differences between now and the cultural revolution. 

elaine


----------

