# Is RCI Points out of fashion on TUG?



## boyblue (Mar 30, 2006)

From what I'm seeing here on TUG we aren't recomending RCI Points as a viable TS option.  I wonder, Is it because RCI is a bad corporate citizen or is it because there are no good deals to be had?  If it is the latter, who did the math on this (I ask because I continue to get pretty good cost/night rates using RCI Points) and if it is the former, what's the big deal?


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## Dave M (Mar 30, 2006)

I can't speak for all of "we" (which includes you), but I believe people recommend options with which they are reasonably knowledgeable. For all of TUG, RCI points holders are likely still in a significant minority. I wouldn't recommend it, because I don't have RCI points. 

As you well know, there are strong supporters at TUG for each of the various points and weeks forms of ownership.

If you believe RCI points are a worthwhile option, you should chime in on the threads where it's applicable.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 30, 2006)

*It's Just Human Nature To Complain.*

I'm still in the afterglow of being an RCI Points newbie -- just bought in last fall -- so I am pretty far away from being the voice of experience.  But, shucks, I like RCI Points just fine so far.

However that may be, I think it's just human nature for folks to chime in with their gripes more readily than with their compliments. 

I can't help thinking that points-based timeshare exchanging is the wave of the future, in contrast with the original week-for-week timeshare exchange concept. 

Plus, I think it's extremely smart of the RCI folks to phase in points side by side with weeks. 

It may be true -- I don't know -- that the RCI people are gradually nudging their existing weeks members & their established weeks-affiliated resorts toward switching over to points.  Even so, by running the weeks & points systems side by side RCI avoids alarming anybody or making anybody feel panicked or unduly pressured into joining points.  

Alexander Pope  said it best... _Be not the first by whom the New are try'd, 
Nor yet the last to lay the Old aside. _​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.


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## JeffV (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't say anything because as sure as I do, a certain party jumps on it to make a "statement".  Points is working very well for me.


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## timeos2 (Mar 30, 2006)

*Who are these people "we"?*

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "we" aren't recommending RCI Points. TUG doesn't take an official stand on most products, resale vs retail and no upfront fees being generic exceptions.  Overall RCI Points seems to be growing in owners and interest while RCI Weeks has taken a strong turn to the negative in the past year or two.  

If there is a negative with RCI it is the ongoing rental of time that some think should have been available to exchange.  How it got to rental is open to speculation as we have no way to confirm it.  Some, including yours truly, think that the nature of week for week trades causes excess time that gets sent to rental.  Others feel it is points thats the culprit.  In any case it is up to the owner to decide if they want to use any RCI product and how that choice may or may not lead to rentals.  It wouldn't stop me from recommending RCI Points as long as the system works and it doesn't stop me from advising against RCI weeks as I found both RCI & II weeks trades  to be nothing more than a crapshoot at best.  In any case I don't like RCI renting but I also know that what you agree to when you give them your time allows it. Only you can decide if that is acceptable to you or not.


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## glenn1000 (Mar 30, 2006)

I think of RCI Points as a nice supplement to RCI Weeks and II. I don't think that there is much value to the use of RCI Points for anything other than timeshare transactions. Airline tickets, etc. are too expensive except for those few people who have huge numbers of low cost points or who need a way to use points before they expire.

RCI Points lets us get exchanges that would be tough to find in RCI weeks. Examples include Europe in the summer, Vancouver Island in the summer, Hawaii and New York City. Though short stays are possible, we've only done that once and I think that it was not worth it since the extra cleaning fee and points needed made it cost too much.

If you happen to have a weeks resort with poor trading power, for whatever reason,  you can deposit into your RCI Points account and get some value in this way. We recently did this when a Gold Crown resort we own seemed to lose all trading power. No problem- deposited to RCI Points that year.

I think that RCI Points is worthwhile in but we only use it for a small portion of our timeshare exchanges.


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## boyblue (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffV said:
			
		

> I don't say anything because as sure as I do, a certain party jumps on it to make a "statement".  Points is working very well for me.



Ditto




			
				timeos2 said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "we" aren't recommending RCI Points. TUG doesn't take an official stand on most products, resale vs retail and no upfront fees being generic exceptions.  Overall RCI Points seems to be growing in owners and interest while RCI Weeks has taken a strong turn to the negative in the past year or two.



By we, I meant members of TUG.  I didn't mean to imply that there is/was an official position.

It's just that I was reading a few of the more recent request for opinions that we often get & it seems that the "try RCI Points" voices have been silenced.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 30, 2006)

I am no longer a fan of RCI Points.  Count me in as an owner who no longer has much of a need for it.  I'll keep one small account just in case I need an airline ticket or I want to spend a few days in New York.

Why?  Just about every other point system is better, cheaper overall, has few transaction fees, has more predictable availability, has a better reputation and allows you to do more with your reservations (e.g. rent them out).

RCI Points keeps increasing fees.  They are clearly milking the exchange cow at Cendant.


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## boyblue (Mar 30, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> I am no longer a fan of RCI Points.  Count me in as an owner who no longer has much of a need for it.  I'll keep one small account just in case I need an airline ticket or I want to spend a few days in New York.
> 
> Why?  Just about every other point system is better, cheaper overall, has few transaction fees, has more predictable availability, has a better reputation and allows you to do more with your reservations (e.g. rent them out).
> 
> RCI Points keeps increasing fees.  They are clearly milking the exchange cow at Cendant.



I am not trying to be facetious BB, but is there another point system that requires $2,000.00 entry (some cases even less) and that will give you per night rates of $40.00 to $60.00.

BTW which system have you found to be most cost effective irregardless of entry cost?


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## caribbean (Mar 30, 2006)

I love my points. Been using them for about 4 years now with wonderful success. I also have a resort in weeks and two in RHC. Love all of them for different reasons. Want to buy some BG points to round out my "portfolio". Each purchase was made for a specific reason and was a good financial deal. So am happy with all of them. Just got tired of being attacked by people who have a private agenda, who don't own points, and don't know what they are talking about. I generally e-mail people directly instead of posting on the points page.


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## Conan (Mar 30, 2006)

I traded 75,000 RCI points for a 3-BR, sleeps 6-8, on the coast of Spain, July 4th week, and 25,000 RCI points for a 1-BR, sleeps 4-6, in Provincetown, Cape Cod, at the end of July.

Taking into account the purchase price for the points (resale, spread over 10 years), maintenance and the exchange fees, I'm paying about $195/night for the 3-BR and about $70/night for the 1-BR.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 30, 2006)

boyblue said:
			
		

> I am not trying to be facetious BB, but is there another point system that requires $2,000.00 entry (some cases even less) and that will give you per night rates of $40.00 to $60.00.
> 
> BTW which system have you found to be most cost effective irregardless of entry cost?



Bluegreen and WorldMark are the lowest cost point systems to use that I have evalulated.  Bluegreen even has an option that allows owners to pay their maintenance fees using points.  If you have enough points, you can pay all of your maintenance fees and still have points left over to use....for free.  So, the ongoing cost is zero and you don't have to rent out your weeks.

Fairfield has lower upfront costs.  But, that's because their maintenance fees are so high and therefore their ownerships are not worth much.

But, all three are way better than RCI Points.  So are all of the other mini point systems.


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## CaliDave (Mar 30, 2006)

Hilton has a great point system. Entry costs are very high.. I can get any 1bd at any resort in RCI for about $60/night and the Hilton trading power in RCI is top notch. 

You have use of RCI weeks exchanges, HGVC exchanges, and RCI points exchanges.  As well as being able to use SFX.


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## boyblue (Mar 30, 2006)

Which of these alternative point systems would be best for shoulder season winter travel throughout Northern US & Canada?


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## ausman (Mar 30, 2006)

Of Bluegreen, Worldmark and Fairfield all are restricted in having Resorts in Northern US and Canada.  

There are a few, but to buy with that in mind would not be wise. Worldmark probably is the best if you want to persue it.


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## boyblue (Mar 31, 2006)

basham said:
			
		

> Of Bluegreen, Worldmark and Fairfield all are restricted in having Resorts in Northern US and Canada.
> 
> There are a few, but to buy with that in mind would not be wise. Worldmark probably is the best if you want to persue it.



It took me less than an hour to look at all of the mini systems & decide they won't work for us.  All of those systems combined couldn't get us South Dakota, Nova Scotia or a lot of other states & provinces we plan to visit.  If you want to get around, I don't know if you can avoid RCI (no matter the cost).


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## Spence (Mar 31, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> If you have enough points, you can pay all of your maintenance fees and still have points left over to use....for free.  So, the ongoing cost is zero and you don't have to rent out your weeks.


BB, this doesn't add up.  It shouldn't matter how many points you have, or is there a sliding conversion scale?  Please explain.

Example: With Sunterra you can pay some MFs with points.
They let you pay off MF with points at a rate of 5.85cents per point (it used to be ~7cents/point but they recently downgraded the 'value').  The problem with that is that most people's MFs are about 9-10cents per point.  Mine happen to average just under 5cents per point, my problem is that they'll only let me convert up to the maximum annual points you garner or 30,000, whichever is less.


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## Spence (Mar 31, 2006)

glenn1000 said:
			
		

> I think of RCI Points as a nice supplement to RCI Weeks and II. I don't think that there is much value to the use of RCI Points for anything other than timeshare transactions. Airline tickets, etc. are too expensive except for those few people who have huge numbers of low cost points or who need a way to use points before they expire.
> 
> RCI Points lets us get exchanges that would be tough to find in RCI weeks. Examples include Europe in the summer, Vancouver Island in the summer, Hawaii and New York City. Though short stays are possible, we've only done that once and I think that it was not worth it since the extra cleaning fee and points needed made it cost too much.
> 
> ...



I agree with Glenn.  RCI points have their uses.  9000 points or less for 45day or less exchanges are great if/when you can use them, lots better than giving up a whole week (no matter how _weak_) on the weeks side.  Also, with advance planning you can more easily match up week long stays to FF tix, for example, I finally get to use some CO FF miles over a holiday for a Wed-Wed stay in Aruba over Thanksgiving.  Wednesdays were the only days the FF tix were available and I matched it with a Wed-Wed points resort stay.

Points used to be great for the MC before they went to points, booking weeks using the generic grid was a great value.  I'm sure there are other similar situations still out there.


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## Spence (Mar 31, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Bluegreen and WorldMark are the lowest cost point systems to use that I have evalulated.


Sunterra can also be very low cost, a Powhatan or Greensprings holiday week (26/27/47/51/52) can be had on eBay for peanuts, get several of them and convert tham to Club Sunterra and you've got a great points package at low cost with low maintenance fees that also works for exchanges into II.


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## timeos2 (Mar 31, 2006)

*FF includes RCI*



			
				boyblue said:
			
		

> It took me less than an hour to look at all of the mini systems & decide they won't work for us.  All of those systems combined couldn't get us South Dakota, Nova Scotia or a lot of other states & provinces we plan to visit.  If you want to get around, I don't know if you can avoid RCI (no matter the cost).


With FF you get a full RCI membership so that takes care of the need for access outside the closed FF system very nicely.


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## geekette (Mar 31, 2006)

same with Bluegreen - I'm with RCI whether I use them or not.

Blue, have you looked at what rentals are like in those areas?


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

Spence said:
			
		

> BB, this doesn't add up.  It shouldn't matter how many points you have, or is there a sliding conversion scale?  Please explain.
> 
> Example: With Sunterra you can pay some MFs with points.
> They let you pay off MF with points at a rate of 5.85cents per point (it used to be ~7cents/point but they recently downgraded the 'value').  The problem with that is that most people's MFs are about 9-10cents per point.  Mine happen to average just under 5cents per point, my problem is that they'll only let me convert up to the maximum annual points you garner or 30,000, whichever is less.



Bluegreen points (new program) have a maintenance fee of $290 + $.026/point.  If you have 60000 points, you can pay your annual membership fee, maintenance fee and taxes with about 40,000 points.  Bluegreen offers you $.05/point to pay your maintenance fees.  That leaves you with 20,000 points free and clear to use.  That is several weeks vacation.

If you do this with only 20,000 points, you will have only have about 1000 points left and that's not useful.  That because you need to pay for the $290 and $125 fee with the margin between $.05 and $.026.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

Spence said:
			
		

> Sunterra can also be very low cost, a Powhatan or Greensprings holiday week (26/27/47/51/52) can be had on eBay for peanuts, get several of them and convert tham to Club Sunterra and you've got a great points package at low cost with low maintenance fees that also works for exchanges into II.



I agree that Sunterra is low cost for most resorts.  I haven't look that closely at them because of the difficulty in transferring points on the resale market.

Bluegreen and WorldMark is low cost due to the low marginal cost of maintenance fees.  And, it's easy to transfer ownership, so I have focused more time on those systems.

For Bluegreen, the marginal cost is $.026/point.  For WorldMark, the marginal cost is $.036/credit.  In Bluegreen, a 2 bedroom unit is between 7000-16000 points or a marginal cost of $182-416.  For WorldMark, a 2 bedroom unit is 10000-12000 credits or a marginal cost of $360-$432.

If you take Fairfield, at around $4/1000 points, the marginal cost is high because a 2 bedroom unit is between 154,000 to 203,000 points.  Therefore the marigin cost is $616-812.  That is about double Bluegreen and WorldMark.

Sunterra has a marginal cost of maintenance of $.065/point (at least last year, they did in the master trust).  2 bedroom red season ranges from 4000-12000 points or $260-$780.  That's a good price at the lower end for many resorts.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

BoyBlue, 

The numbers that I use in the above post are for 2 bedroom units during red time.  If you go to Blue or White time in 1 bedroom units, the price goes down dramatically.

As an example, a studio unit in White time in Big Cedar is 2000 Bluegreen points.  That is a marginal cost of $52.  You can take 10,000 Bluegreen points and deposit 5 studio units into DAE and get 5 weeks out of it.  10,000 points range in cost from $3000-5000 off eBay.

RCI Points can't touch those economics.


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## timeos2 (Mar 31, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Bluegreen points (new program) have a maintenance fee of $290 + $.026/point.  If you have 60000 points, you can pay your annual membership fee, maintenance fee and taxes with about 40,000 points.  Bluegreen offers you $.05/point to pay your maintenance fees.  That leaves you with 20,000 points free and clear to use.  That is several weeks vacation.
> 
> If you do this with only 20,000 points, you will have only have about 1000 points left and that's not useful.  That because you need to pay for the $290 and $125 fee with the margin between $.05 and $.026.


Great if it works but how can they credit you more value than the underlying points get in annual income?  That doesn't make any sense to me unless they are not using the collected funds for resort expenses & upkeep. it just doesn't sound right.


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## Spence (Mar 31, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Bluegreen points (new program) have *a maintenance fee of $290 + $.026/point*.  If you have 60000 points, you can pay your annual membership fee, maintenance fee and taxes with about 40,000 points.  Bluegreen offers you $.05/point to pay your maintenance fees.  That leaves you with 20,000 points free and clear to use.  That is several weeks vacation.  If you do this with only 20,000 points, you will have only have about 1000 points left and that's not useful.  That because you need to pay for the $290 and $125 fee with the margin between $.05 and $.026.


OK, that does in fact make it a sliding scale because of the base fee for both membership and maintenance.  I agree with JC though, I don't see how this can be sustained.



			
				BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> Sunterra has a marginal cost of maintenance of $.065/point (at least last year, they did in the master trust).


I've never seen this number published, I base my ~10cents/point figure on the listings at holidaygroup and the ones I see quoted on eBay.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 31, 2006)

*Voodoo Economics?*



			
				timeos2 said:
			
		

> Great if it works but how can they credit you more value than the underlying points get in annual income?


They have to make it up in volume. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

Yes, it is sustainable.  I've audited the financials to prove it to myself.

It just depends on whether or not Bluegreen gets greedy like RCI.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

Did any of you by chance think that there was no way to make money with a search engine?  After all, search is free, right?


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## geekette (Mar 31, 2006)

The other thing is, they keep building and buying so they continually have units to sell.  BG will always be actively selling.


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## BocaBum99 (Mar 31, 2006)

geekette said:
			
		

> The other thing is, they keep building and buying so they continually have units to sell.  BG will always be actively selling.



This is the difference between Bluegreen and WorldMark.  In Bluegreen, they keep adding resorts in desirable areas.  In WorldMark, they seem to just look for cheap land to add more points to the system to dilute current ownerships.  Two nearly identical systems and one seems to have a more trustworthy management team.  At least there are fewer conflicts of interest.


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## boyblue (Apr 1, 2006)

BB, consider our travel pattern.  We do two, 3 week trips - a trip Nov/Dec & another in March.  We normally do 2 or 3 locations (max 1 day’s drive apart) per trip.  Up until our last trip we’ve stayed in standard resorts, but because of our accumulation of points we'll be doing just gold crowns (where available) in the future.  Most importantly, we like to visit small towns in off beat places.  All things considered would you suggest that we switch?  How much of a savings are we talking about?

With the locations we visit (small towns/dead of winter), we would still end up using mostly RCI affiliated resorts.  Would any of the mini systems allow us to avoid RCI’s fees?


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## geekette (Apr 1, 2006)

Blugreen has some small towns - bluegreenonline.com  - a complete escape from exchange fees.  offseason will save you a boodle of points and you can use Bonus Time.


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 1, 2006)

boyblue said:
			
		

> BB, consider our travel pattern.  We do two, 3 week trips - a trip Nov/Dec & another in March.  We normally do 2 or 3 locations (max 1 day’s drive apart) per trip.  Up until our last trip we’ve stayed in standard resorts, but because of our accumulation of points we'll be doing just gold crowns (where available) in the future.  Most importantly, we like to visit small towns in off beat places.  All things considered would you suggest that we switch?  How much of a savings are we talking about?
> 
> With the locations we visit (small towns/dead of winter), we would still end up using mostly RCI affiliated resorts.  Would any of the mini systems allow us to avoid RCI’s fees?



boyblue,

Given your needs, I would stay with RCI Points and continue to use the 9000 point option.

You may want to consider adding a small WorldMark account.  You can use that to access Interval International resorts and use Flexchange for 4000 points.  

Doesn't Wapato have an option to convert into WorldMark Credits?  If so, I would buy a small 5000 credit package.  That will significantly increase your options for travel.


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## boyblue (Apr 1, 2006)

How much should I pay for the small credit package?


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 1, 2006)

boyblue said:
			
		

> How much should I pay for the small credit package?



$3500-4000.


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## boyblue (Apr 1, 2006)

BocaBum99 said:
			
		

> $3500-4000.



How much MF?


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## BocaBum99 (Apr 1, 2006)

boyblue said:
			
		

> How much MF?



$297......


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## boyblue (Apr 2, 2006)

How much bang (equivalent to RCI points) can I get for the $297


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