# [ 2013 ] Question about "Value Trade Agreement" validity



## bioleal

Hello! I am a new use & new member around...

Short Story: 
We supposely "traded" our existing time share for another one; in which SunSetWorld group would use our time share to "write off" their taxes.  So we are supposed to send our timeshare documents to them, plus a fee of $590 (for Title research). 

I know, people here will say "SCAN" rightaway... but this maybe a new (BAD) animal here: 

The catch here is that we signed an agreement "Value trade Agreement" that set the terms giving "a discount" of $16,500 off our contract for our existing timeshare; as part of the deal.

The document says that in case they can not get our time share (our default by owner), they will charge us that price of $16k??

I will paste the terms of this Value Traded Agreement in the following message.

Question: should we go further and pay for the service? I have the fear they would go after us charging the $16K?

Thanks


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## bioleal

here is the "Value trade Agreement" we signed:

This agreement is between ( me )  the "Owner" and Vacation Trade World S.A. de CV. "VTW" for value received. Owner acknowledges that VTW is an independent company and that this agreement is not dependent on any transaction taking place. X.....

It is mutually agreed that the property described below is being transferred by the authorized and legal OWNER to VTW as consideration for Value Received. The property shall be transferred, granted, or assigned to VTW and/or its assigns in such a 
manner as to pass legal ownership, free and clear of any dues, encumbrance, easements, mortgage or maintenance fees, and will remain free and clear for an additional period of 90 days after transfer of title takes place. 

OWNER agrees to cooperate with VTW process for completion, registration, and execution of transfer, and to provide VTW with all documents -necessary, including a notarized power of attorney, within 60 days of OWNER signature of this contract. Further, 'OWNER understands that the transfer process wiil start after all required documents have been received by VTW. Failure to comply within the 60 day period will cause penalties and/or additional collection costs, including default. 

OWNER also agrees to make payment of any fees pertinent to transfer of title, this includes; Transfer Fees charged by property management, closing company, recording fees, taxes, and any fee due or billed within 90 days after the transfer of title takes place. OWNER is responsible for full payment of any maintenance fee due or billed in the current year, and a onetime $590 Title Research Fee....

OWNER agrees that in the event that the property transferred is found to contain the right of refusal of transfer by the developer, or if for any other reason the traded in resort is not -willing to release the contract name, the OWNER shall be held to contractual obligation and pay on demand to VTWthe Value Received. 

In the event of default by OWNER, Value Received shall be due and payable on demand OWNER further agrees that in the event legal action arises in connection with this Agreement, the successful party shall recover from the other, responsible and actual legal costs and attorneys fees as governed by the state ofQuintana Roo, Mexico.


Property description:

Name of property
City/State/Country;
#Weeks (points)      M.Fee    Resort Season    Unit Size

Contract Number

Gross Price $
Value Received $16K
Final Price $11K

Owners have read and agreed to terms entered this day    of    year


Owener signature


Vacation Trade World S.A. de C.A.     Calle 10 x 12, Centro 

Calle 10 x 12, Centro, 
Playa del Carmen f 
Solidaridad, Q. Roo; Mexico 
Phone 011 52(984)8033927 
Fax 011 52(984)8794235 
maiicustomerservice@valuetraded.com 
Web Site www.valuetraded.com


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## bioleal

I just would like to know if this "Value Trade agreement" seems Real for you Members and Users.

The guy on the phone said that they would transfer our property to them, and once the transaction is done, we no longuer will have the Maintanence fee for our previous time share.  

thanks


Below this is the document showing instructions to iniciate the "trade":


To continue with the transfer process of your property, we will require:

1. Limited Durable Power of Attorney • Please print out the POWER OF ATTORNEY attachment and print your
name(s) exactly as they appear on your Ownership Documents. •	Sign the POWER OF ATTORNEY where it says GRANTOR and have the form
notarized. (Please make sure the notary seal is legible) • Send the original back to the following address by any courier of your
choice (DHL, UPS, FedEx)
Vacation Trade World Av. 10 con Calle 12 Edificio Jira DEPT. B4 Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo MEXICO 77710
*Note that documents sent by regular, registered or certified mail can take 6 to 10 weeks to arrive and may result in delays of the transfer process.

2. A copy of photo identification for all parties listed on the ownership documents that include your signature.

3.	A copy of the recorded deed.

We would also appreciate if you could include copies of any document(s) you may feel are relevant to your membership. (Purchase agreement, maintenance fee bill, etc.)

It is important to note that the abovementioned documents are required to begin the transfer of your membership. If, for any reason, we do not receive these documents within the timeframe stated on your Value Traded Agreement, your signed contract will be in default and we will not be responsible for the transfer of your membership.

Service is our commitment.
Kind Regards,

 Jaime Gutierrez


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## gmarine

Very simply, its a scam. Dont waste your time.


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## timeos2

Where would I even start? They are asking for YOU to pay them at least $590 - and turn over all sorts of information you don't want them to have. Nowhere do iI see them paying anything or selling anything - they are trying to take title with you paying all costs, $590 to them and then they most likely plan to abandon the property (never pay the fees due). They are also covering if the resort is wise to this scam and won't accept them as an "owner" - you agree to pay them but keep title to the timeshare. 

It is a lot of nonsense meant to make you think you are selling - they are buying - when in fact you are paying and getting nothing in return, 

Don't do it!  Yes, it IS a bogus "offer".


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## ttt

This is how these companies do business, its not a scam. The really don't want your timeshare, but are willing to take if in order to get you to buy their timeshare. I have dealt with this company & they will follow through, although you should stay on top of them & make sure they transfer your timeshare. If you ask them, they will probably let you keep your timeshare.


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## bioleal

ttt said:


> This is how these companies do business, its not a scam. The really don't want your timeshare, but are willing to take if in order to get you to buy their timeshare. I have dealt with this company & they will follow through, although you should stay on top of them & make sure they transfer your timeshare. If you ask them, they will probably let you keep your timeshare.




Hello ttt ; just to clarify; have you deal with what company (SunsetWorld or Vacation Trade World S.A. de C.A.)  ?

 The one making the transfer is Vacation Trade World S.A. de C.A. ... I really would like to make this work (I mean get rid of our existing timeshare and making the Sunset works as promissed) ... one employee of the trade company assured me that, the majority of transfer deals go through; and when not, is mostly because they did not received the requered documents...

- What is strange is how they are very up-front about the $590 Title Research Fee ... without even asking much of my own info... they said they already have my info in that ""Value trade Agreement" and that to move the process he wanted my credit card... and I was supposed to mail the supporting docs later...
- It violates the general rule here in the TUG group of not paying anything up-front...

Your thoughs are highly apreciated..  thanks


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## timeos2

The "thoughts" have been clearly stated. If you give them your CC number you don't have to worry about getting them the documents. The so called trade will /would never occur. You will be out $590 and be back asking how to recover it. From the start this is a simple up front fee scam. Period. Nice that they are warning you up front - pay attention or lose your money. Don't give them a dime.


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## vacationhopeful

If you can't understand WHAT they are saying NOW, you can not expect them to perform WHAT? It is DOUBLE SPEAK and NONSENSE ... you can't even explain it to us clearly. 

But you will be out at least $590 ... AND will still own your timeshare and/or some other junk.


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## geekette

Granting them Power of Attorney???  that's creepy.


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## bioleal

thanks all for your replies...

Yes, sure this has several indications of a Scam... my point was to try to make sure, if for instance; that one could work... specially because ttt (member above) mentioned he already has worked with them...and mentioned it was not a scam. It seems ttt is an old school user here in the community (with experience with deeds)... and that is why I am paying attention.

Now, assuming we do not Proceed with this "Value Trade Agreement", which was signed inside the sales office in the resort, together with all other property documents ... 
Would they (Vacation Trade World) be able to start a Collection process on us ?

I mean, the agreement specifies a value ($16K), which in case they do not get the property, we would be liable for that value? Is that all bow-shit?

on the agreement: "OWNER agrees that in the event that the property transferred is found to contain the right of refusal of transfer by the developer, or if for any other reason the traded in resort is not -willing to release the contract name, the *OWNER shall be held to contractual obligation and pay on demand to VTWthe Value Received.  *"  

BTW, Collection process if a Scam does not go through is a strange concept...


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## JudyS

I think it is unlikely that they would come after you for the $590. But if they do intend to come after you, I don't think paying $590 would help -- what would stop them from coming for the remaining $11,000? 

I would just ignore this and do nothing. If you are concerned about them coming after you for the $590, contact http://www.profeco.gob.mx/english.htm (maybe someone here can provide a phone number) and ask for help. 

Don't give this company your money.


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## JudyS

bioleal said:


> ...
> BTW, Collection process if a Scam does not go through is a strange concept...


I don't think scammers send people to collections. They may threaten to do so to get people to send them money, though.


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## Rent_Share

No that's the basis of a different scam

http://www.insidearm.com/daily/coll...fficials-raid-collection-agency-arrest-three/


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## geekette

bioleal said:


> This agreement is between ( me )  the "Owner" and Vacation Trade World S.A. de CV. "VTW" for value received. *Owner acknowledges that VTW is an independent company and that this agreement is not dependent on any transaction taking place.* X.....



This part also bothers me.  

Doesn't the entire agreement totally rest on a transaction taking place?

I'm no lawyer, but that seems ...  odd.

Did you say that you actually signed it?  If so, see if you have the right to reverse that within 3 days.  Mexico is a different animal, you may not have that right.

If you can cancel, do so and research further.  You can always look them up again and proceed.

Please do keep us posted.  And, Good Luck!


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## bioleal

hi Geekette ....

Yes, sure we signed ...  The document specifies our contract number with Sunset group... it says gross price (empty), "value received" as $16K ; Final Price: ashamed to disclose.

The information I got so far is that, they are a company mostly interested on the $590 fee ... because the transfer costs much less than that, and they would make a profit of it... but, it seems they do make the transfer (to them) happen for real (as long people stay on top on them to make it happen)... they used to be called carribran resales...
... if true, they will abandon and never even resell it ... or if so, profit again on the transfer fee. 

So, most likely they would not reinforce Collection or start legal action...


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## SmithOp

*Well does your property have rofr?*

It seems you are worried about the rofr clause costing you, don't you already know if the resort you own has it?


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## bioleal

SmithOp;

Not that I know (the resort we have (133 points@Monarch grand vacations) does not have an separate doc as Right of first refusal) ... 

The new deal with Sunset group , Sure it has Right of first refusal   (they know better) ... BTW, this Right of First Refusal (to buy it back for no less than market value) sounds like a real Scam ... at the presentation we believed it, but after reading all about Sunset and other TS sales tactics, they will most likely say "we don't need the inventory"... right?

Have you ever hear someone returning a membership and getting $ back (through ROFR)?


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## pacodemountainside

Read  this thread or at least post #16.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187954


On e-bay most resellers strive for  around 99% happy campers.

It is no problem for a company to get a couple  HC and  extrapolate a la pyramid selling schemes and testimonials.

However, when you you get ONE  happy camper here and  at least NINE  dissenters none who want $590 from you  I would go with odds  and save my wallet and time.

Title insurance on a TS is  around $200 although a waste since probably can only collect a $1.  Since Mexico TSs are leases there are no deeds to even  search!

There is no tooth or time share fairy who  hands out cash especially down Mexico way!


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## SmithOp

bioleal said:


> SmithOp;
> 
> Not that I know (the resort we have (133 points@Monarch grand vacations) does not have an separate doc as Right of first refusal) ...
> 
> The new deal with Sunset group , Sure it has Right of first refusal   (they know better) ... BTW, this Right of First Refusal (to buy it back for no less than market value) sounds like a real Scam ... at the presentation we believed it, but after reading all about Sunset and other TS sales tactics, they will most likely say "we don't need the inventory"... right?
> 
> Have you ever hear someone returning a membership and getting $ back (through ROFR)?



No, I am not aware of refund on this type of points membership.  What I was getting at is if Monarch wants your membership for the 16k they are crediting you, then Monarch pays it to you and this contract obligates you to give it right to them.  I don't see any reason to worry about that rofr clause, but I'd be worried about a lot of the other warning signs.

HGVC has rofr on 2 of mine and I know they will give me what I paid if I'm dumb enough to trade for another purchase from them, or they will give me rofr price if I just want to deed it back.


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## bioleal

Thanks Pacodemountainside and SmithOp;

Do you guys think we can get into serious trouble for "not cooperating" with that Value Trade Agreement ? 

The wording of the contract (post 2 above) is scary ... specially the last to paragraphs. In case, we default it, and they really come full force legally, that would be terrible. Well, fear might be part of the scam...

Most above think nothing will happen, and we should just ignore the "Agreement"...


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## bioleal

we will wait (do nothing/ignore) and see what happens ... I will keep you guys posted ...

Thanks a lot! for all the advice ...


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## vicladeeda

*Value Traders*

Bioleal - What was the outcome of your experience with Value Traders in trading your timeshare? I am finding myself in the same situation.  Were they legit? Did you pay? 
My spouse is saying don't pay the $695 they are charging for the title search and transfer fee, and I'm on the fence. 

Will appreciate your sharing your experience/insights. ...or anyone else who has dealt with Value Traders (VTW).

Thx.


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## DeniseM

Welcome to TUG - Please note that this thread is more than a year old, and Bioleal hasn't been here for more than a year.  You can click on their blue user name to send them a message.

*Please read all the posts in this thread carefully - this is almost without a doubt a scam.*


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## vicladeeda

*"Value Trade Agreement" - Paying for trading in my two Mexican TS for new one*

Traded in Pueblo Bonito Sunset (Cabo) and Westgate (Orlando) for a new TS (Villas del Arco in Cabo). We are supposed to pay Value Traders some $1200 to manage the transfer of these two timeshares for which they have deducted thousands from our purchase price. 

Has anybody had any experience with them? Will they do what they say? They are telling us if we don't pay for this, we've breached the TS deal & we will have to pay the full price they have allowed us for the two TS's towards the deal. Of course we have major buyer's remorse & would like to walk away from this whole deal but we are far from the recission period.  Help!


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## tschwa2

Was the $1200 in the original contract and did you question it at that time? 


From the reports of many that post here and other places, who bought  from legitimate resorts in Mexico, they send your TS to a 3rd party company that will generally *try* to dispose of your timeshare.  Two to three years ago I would have said that most do 90% of the time but resorts have made it difficult to be disposed of so now the chances are 30-50% that they will be successful and 50-70% chance that they will be unsuccessful and after 6 to 18 months might tell you, "Eh you can keep your discount and your original timeshares too because we were unable to dispose of them and by the way enjoy the 3 timeshares you now own."



> Harry Callahan: I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?


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## vicladeeda

*Question about "Value Trade Agreement" validity*

Yes, the amount was in the original contract. ....AND the TS seller credited our purchase price for that same amount & told us that we would then use that $ to pay Value Traders.    And, after talking to folks staying at the same place we found out that those new owners had bought for the same price we had and traded nothing in. So we feel both stupid, beaten and don't want to fork over any more cash. 

(Also we are concerned that Pueblo Bonito Sunset & Westgate will not let go of our agreement even though they are paid off and current on MF. )


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## mixmex

I am in the same predicament today  What did you end up doing?


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## DeniseM

mixmex said:


> I am in the same predicament today  What did you end up doing?



The last post in this thread is from May, so if you would like to contact a particular poster, the best method would be to click on their blue user name, and send them an email.


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## mixmex

*Value Trade*

I did and hoping to receive back a reply soon. Thanks.


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## mtngal08

*Value Trader!*

I'm hoping to hear from Vicladeeda and/or Mixmex via private email or here about Value Trader!  We just signed a trade with them last week!  Yikes!   We thought we read all the 'fine' print but when we got home, we saw the 'finer' print!  We supposedly have until Monday, Dec 2 to change our minds but may be responsible for the 'nonrefundable' downpayment for an upgrade at Paradise Village ('selling' them Westgate).  Does anyone else have any solutions?  Thanks!!


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## mtngal08

Does anyone else have any solutions with Value Trader?  Thanks!!


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## vicladeeda

*Value Traders did the job I paid them to do.*

I committed to transfer two properties, one US TS and one Mexican TS through Value Traders (VT). I was full of fear, figured I'd be victimized by another Mexican scam, but in the end, they did what they said they would. 

There was, however, an issue. Part of it was my fault. My US TS requires notification so that the owner has right of first refusal. After doing so, VT said          "At this point in time you should not provide any purchase information to [my US TS] or any information of any sort regarding this transaction. As [my US TS] is one of the more difficult transfers due to their terms and conditions about transfers to re-sale companies this can jeopardize [my US TS] the transaction.  I believe the best option at this point will be to return the account directly to [my US TS]  through their “deed-back” process as there is a very good chance that this transaction will be denied due to the surrounding circumstances. We will not hold you responsible to return the value that you received for our rights to own this membership, however at this point this is the only way to guarantee that your name is successfully removed from this property."  They also offered to help me with some of the very pricey deed-back fees.  In the long run we just decided to keep the timeshare because of the expense of the deed-back process and the fact that it has value as a deeded property and decent trade value.

As far as the Mexican TS -- huge success. So glad to be rid of it, and I did confirm with the TS that my name is not on the property and I owe no future maintenance fees. It did, however take about 5 months (May to almost November) to complete this process, some in part due to me dragging my feet and part to a hurricane landing where the timeshare is located. 

VT was quite professional and polite in their communications (but did on several times tell me that if I didn't send the required documents that my file would fall into default). I did have a problem with one of the gents I worked with not getting back to me for a couple weeks, (I thought perhaps he no longer was employed there) but forwarding the email to their customer service address got a prompt reply.  

So like you, I went into this transaction nervous and prepared to be a victim...praying that it would all come out ok.  I'm so glad it did work out --not exactly as I'd planned, but I'm happy with the end result. 

If you need more info, contact me.


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## narsdoktorsausa

*Value Traders*

We just got hooked with UVC, hoping to ditch Legacy.
UVC services are good, we experienced it first hand at Punta Cana, DR - Dreams  and Breathless.
The issue that is bothering us is the Value Traded Agreement.
Is this legally binding?
We want to disregard it since it says, third party blah blah and blah and wants  $695 upfront.
I have read all the posts about them, which made me join this blog.
Can they really sue us if we do the "default" thing/
Please advise.
UVC has no cancellation policy  but we want to call MC -dispute department.
We are based in the USA, they are in Mexico.

I want to shoot myself!!


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## narsdoktorsausa

JudyS said:


> I don't think scammers send people to collections. They may threaten to do so to get people to send them money, though.



cool.

Never again...
we are too gullible: my husband and I !!


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## theo

*Pay your money, place your bet --- and take your chances...*

narsdoktorsausa:

In the final analysis, the risk with *every* *one* of these "trade in" related entities (most frequently found operating in Mexico) is that they could (and often do) simply fail to adequately follow through to properly get a "traded in" U.S. product *out* of the current owner name and *into* a new, valid name to legally transfer ownership in the U.S. 

For a owned, deeded U.S. timeshare (i.e., an ownership --- not RTU "club" contracts), this generally requires the proper preparation of a new deed here in the U.S.A, officially recorded in the appropriate U.S. jurisdiction, often also requiring a "transfer fee" being paid to the U.S. resort or its' management company and, ultimately, actual *acceptance* of the ownership change by the U.S. resort to complete the final step of the transfer. Paperwork completed in (and /or money sent to and processed in) Mexico or DR means *absolutely nothing* in the eyes of  U.S. law. Ultimately, a U.S.-based ownership must be transferred in accordance with U.S. laws and procedures. Until and unless all of that happens in the U.S.A., *you* still own the "traded in" U.S. timeshare (and all of the ongoing maintenance fee obligations associated therewith). 

I hope that you are ultimately successful, but understand very clearly that "trade in" operations can be a real gamble if / when you choose to roll those unreliable dice.

P.S. I'm unclear if what you own is Legacy Vacation Club (Florida based and formerly known as Celebrity Resorts until its' post-bankruptcy "reinvention" with the new Legacy Vacation Club name a few years ago). If so, then despite the word "club" in the "reinvented" name, it is in fact still a deeded ownership (not RTU "club" contract), so all of my above input would indeed apply directly to you in regard to the necessary components to complete a lawful, U.S. recognized transfer of a U.S. ownership.

P.P.S. This Mexico (and / or Dominican Republic) "trade in" gimmick is really just a smoke and mirrors numbers game anyhow. A grossly inflated "trade in" value figure is presented to entice the "mark". That inflated (...fictitious, actually) number is then allegedly "applied" to a (also grossly inflated, fictitious) price for a new purchase. 
In reality, the "mark" is being given *nothing* but some meaningless numbers on paper for the "trade-in" (which might very well have zero resale market value anyhow).
The same "net" purchase figure (...maybe even a *lower* figure) would still be readily available to you *without* *any* so-called "trade in". It's all just a contrived psychological ploy and a misleading sales tactic designed to extract your U.S. Dollars. They really couldn't care less about your (maybe worthless anyhow) "trade in" U.S. timeshare.


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## narsdoktorsausa

Thank you @Theo.
yes, that was Celebrity...you are spot on!

A guy from Value Trader called my husband this am and made some empty promises.
ALL BS! I told my husband NOT to talk to him again.

UVC called also because I sent them an email and my 2 lawyers also advised me to call the Credit Card company to dispute the charges (We paid in full).

UVC  advised us to stop the dispute because it is not good  for their company and promised us that there is NO need for the "trading", but  just to stick with them.  I said, you send the proposal of your deal, if we like it, we will stop the dispute.
When I came home from work, there was no more email from them.
Another BS.
Now, we know better, we will cancel  UVC !!
We will also try to get rid of Legacy..if not, we will just make use of the points via RCI..
Damn, that maintenance fee is 800 USD/ year.


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## theo

narsdoktorsausa said:


> Thank you @Theo.
> yes, that was Celebrity...you are spot on!
> 
> A guy from Value Trader called my husband this am and made some empty promises.
> ALL BS! I told my husband NOT to talk to him again.
> 
> UVC called also because I sent them an email and my 2 lawyers also advised me to call the Credit Card company to dispute the charges (We paid in full).
> 
> UVC  advised us to stop the dispute because it is not good  for their company and promised us that there is NO need for the "trading", but  just to stick with them.  I said, you send the proposal of your deal, if we like it, we will stop the dispute.
> When I came home from work, there was no more email from them.
> Another BS.
> Now, we know better, we will cancel  UVC !!
> We will also try to get rid of Legacy..if not, we will just make use of the points via RCI..
> Damn, that maintenance fee is 800 USD/ year.



We once owned a week (fortunately, acquired resale for peanuts) within pre-bankruptcy Celebrity Resorts and we ultimately gave it away (for free) a few years later. 
The resort itself was certainly decent enough, but the company and its' practices, principals and company-controlled HOA stooges --- not so much (to say the least). 

At least you have those RCI Points to use elsewhere (our week preceded Celebrity / Legacy's adoption of RCI Points around 2010 and we had no such RCI points). 
If those points are enough to justify the $800 maintenance fee, you can hopefully extract some use or value from the ownership, but *don't* get sucked into the bogus "trade-in" gig in any scenario or you'll surely just be paying to rid yourself of something that you *won't* actually be rid of at all in the final analysis.


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## tschwa2

While disputing the cc charges will get the charges reversed initially, you still may not have a successful dispute. 



> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187698&postcount=6
> Originally Posted by DaveM
> Thus, advice to stop payment on a check or dispute the credit card charge might be sound advice. (...in addition to sending a cancellation letter in hopes of success!) However, if the charge was on a CC, the CC company will likely uphold the charge if the seller provides a copy of the signed contract and proves you got what was promised in writing. If a promise wasn't in writing, that promise won't be considered by the CC company.



Your question was:* Is this legally binding?*
I am not sure if you meant just the part about Value Traded Agreement or your whole contract with UVC?  If you signed an agreement you agree to have the terms legally bind you.  I don't think you can default because you think they may not hold up part of the deal.  If they don't hold it up you may be able to legally default but you signed a contract in the DR and depending on the wording of the contract, you are likely bound by the rules and laws in the DM and would have to prove they breached contract.  In all likelihood the contract you signed didn't even guarantee they would get your timeshare out of your name.  In all likelihood the wording was that they would list or try to sell your week.

Since you have two lawyers, I am sure they can advise you better than we can here but not all countries have rescision laws and DR may be one of those.  You sign, you buy.


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## theo

tschwa2 said:


> While disputing the cc charges will get the charges reversed initially, you still may not have a successful dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> Your question was:* Is this legally binding?*
> 
> I am not sure if you meant just the part about Value Traded Agreement or your whole contract with UVC?  If you signed an agreement you agree to have the terms legally bind you.  I don't think you can default because you think they may not hold up part of the deal.  If they don't hold it up you may be able to legally default but you signed a contract in the DM and depending on the wording of the contract, you are likely bound by the rules and laws in the DM and would have to prove they breached contract.  In all likelihood the contract you signed didn't even guarantee they would get your timeshare out of your name.  In all likelihood the wording was that they would list or try to sell your week.



I don't dispute any of the above and the OP should certainly follow the guidance of her own legal counsel. I will nonetheless note that if OP can get the credit card charges successfully and permanently halted in this matter now, then (IMnsHO anyhow) by all means let those parasites in Dominica go right ahead and initiate and pursue a "breach of contract" action --- in Central America --- against a U.S. resident and citizen. Good luck with that, amigos.

They won't even bother, plainly and simply stated.  They wouldn't initiate such a futile and pointless effort; there is always *another* Gringo coming around the corner soon, willing to step into their lair and, upon seeing the (completely fictitious) numbers implying "big trade in value", promptly succumb to the whole song and dance routine.


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## narsdoktorsausa

GOOD NEWS!

ALL refunds posted in MC including the stupid transaction fees >600 USD

Good riddance UVC..

Still with Legacy...they said we cannot sell or cancel but transfer ..we will utilize our RCI points anyway > 55k...
yeah!!
next vacation : Costa Rica!


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## theo

narsdoktorsausa said:


> <snip> next vacation : Costa Rica!



...*without* attending or falling for any more bull$&!t "trade in" razzamatazz and / or song and dance routines, right?


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## narsdoktorsausa

OOOPS Another issue:
Legacy Vacation Club  agreed to cancel our contract but will not refund any of our membership fees - 4k in 2008 and upgraded paid  6k this January.
What to do? HEELPPP!

take the loss? 
they said when we cancel, no more further obligations anymore..
BUT no REFUNDS>>


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## theo

narsdoktorsausa said:


> OOOPS Another issue:
> Legacy Vacation Club  agreed to cancel our contract but will not refund any of our membership fees - 4k in 2008 and upgraded paid  6k this January.
> What to do? HEELPPP!
> 
> take the loss?
> they said when we cancel, no more further obligations anymore..
> BUT no REFUNDS>>



1. The only monetary "refunds" from timeshare developers that *I've* ever known of are refunds of deposits in timely and properly submitted rescissions of developer-direct purchases, as plainly mandated by state law. (We'll conveniently ignore court settlements as distinctly separate --- and irrelevant to your situation anyhow). 
You are *long* past any rescission eligibility in any state in the U.S.A.

2. Membership fees? If you owned in Celebrity / Legacy, then what you own is almost certainly a deeded week somewhere (I am assuming that was the $4k paid in 2008). That money is gone and it ain't ever coming back. Period, amen. Likewise if you actually intended to say *maintenance* fees instead of *membership* fees.

3. I am *assuming* that the $6k you paid in January was to "upgrade" your aforementioned deeded ownership to also have some associated RCI Points? 
That was entirely too much money to pay for such an insignificant "upgrade", but if you chose to pay it then it that money is also now gone forever too. 

4. If my assumption is correct that you actually have a deeded ownership (i.e., not any sort of "membership", except one with RCI), then for you to legally terminate your ownership there needs to be a new deed prepared and recorded in a new name (presumably that of Legacy, with their advance knowledge and consent and assistance). 
I see no reference at all to any such process in your post. Who, exactly, are you having these conversations with? Is there anything from Legacy expressed  *in writing*?

Maybe you should confer with your own legal counsel (again), but fwiw I don't think you are going to see (or are in *any* way even remotely eligible to receive) *any* "refunds" in any scenario that I can imagine for purchases freely, knowingly and voluntarily made --- one of them 7 years ago now and the other one 9 months ago. 
I would be delighted to be mistaken, but I would also be willing to bet that I am not.

No disrespect intended, but it seems (from the very limited facts provided) that you have quite casually spent at least $10k+ without really understanding *either* the product *or* the long term ramifications of your multiple purchases.  In any event, rest assured that there are *no* "refunds" in your future in regard to this ownership.


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## narsdoktorsausa

Thanks Theo..such candidness is needed for me to wake up !!
My husband is mad with me already..some money out the window!!

The Legacy Rep called me this morning after we sent our cancellation letter yesterday.
They will send some documents to be filled up by my husband and I
and notarized for formal cancellation of our Legacy Vacation Membership ( 55k points)

At any rate..this is an expensive lesson.


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## theo

narsdoktorsausa said:


> Thanks Theo..such candidness is needed for me to wake up !!
> My husband is mad with me already..some money out the window!!
> 
> The Legacy Rep called me this morning after we sent our cancellation letter yesterday.
> They will send some documents to be filled up by my husband and I
> and notarized for formal cancellation of our Legacy Vacation Membership ( 55k points)
> 
> At any rate..this is an expensive lesson.



Once again, you don't have a Legacy "membership". You have *ownership* of a deeded week *somewhere* and that week now also has some associated RCI Points. 
In short, the only "membership" you have is with RCI, solely by virtue of your having apparently bought into a "conversion to RCI points" in 2010. That conversion to points does not change or eliminate the underlying deeded week ownership; it merely "adds" RCI Points to that deeded ownership, to potentially use the points elsewhere (as an alternative to, not in addition to) using the underlying deeded week itself in any given year. You can use the points or the week, but not both, in the same year.  

What Legacy (hopefully) is going to send you is likely a quit claim deed, which you will both have to get signed and notarized and returned to Legacy for them to undertake official recording in the appropriate jurisdiction (usually the County in which the underlying deeded week's facility is physically located). If the purchase is paid off, as you have at least implied, you likely were already provided with the original, hard copy recorded deed reflecting O.R. Book & Page or Instrument number, although whether you can find that deed now is not important if Legacy is preparing a new QC deed for you to sign.

You would be wise and well advised to make *absolutely certain* that the new deed does indeed get recorded; Legacy VC is not the most trustworthy operation around.
Until and unless that new deed preparation, notarized signature and official recording is completed, you *remain* the owner of record in the eyes of the law and you *remain* fully responsible for any and all maintenance fees, special assessments, etc. until such time as a formal, lawful ownership transfer is *fully* completed. Good luck.


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## narsdoktorsausa

YAIKKS!!!

I had my husband read your comments @Theo.
Looks like we are screwed again.
Maybe, we will NOT cancel and just make use of that 800$/ yearly fee
with RCI points..


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## theo

narsdoktorsausa said:


> <snip> Maybe, we will NOT cancel and just make use of that 800$/ yearly fee with RCI points..



That is entirely your own personal choice and decision --- just as both of the several previous voluntary purchases were also your own personal choices and decisions. 

To clarify one relevant point, you would not actually be "cancelling" anything --- "cancelling" is not even an option for you to unilaterally exercise at this (too late) point. 
More accurately stated, LVC is apparently willing to *voluntarily accept* a "deedback" (which they are *never* actually *obligated* to do) if you are willing to just voluntarily *give* your ownership *back* to them, by executing the Quit Claim deed which is presumably soon to be en route to you for your notarized signatures and return to LVC. 

Legacy VC already has (and fully intends to *keep*) at least $10,000 from you (*plus* all maintenance fees collected since 2008), so they are certainly in a position to be somewhat "agreeable". They may simply take your deed back (at no cost to them except postage and minimal recording fees), releasing you from all future obligations. 
LVC will then just turn around and sell that exact same product all over again to someone else. A very nice deal --- *for them* anyhow, to just  "rinse, lather and repeat".

Your current ownership likely has little or no resale market value (particularly if those "RCI Points" you bought into disappear upon each resale; that depends entirely upon Legacy VC policy). If that disappearing points gig *is* the case, then what you own now is literally just about worthless in the resale market. Your choices seem to be to either just cut your losses and bail out now permanently via what is apparently a "deedback" acceptance offer from Legacy, or just continue to pay the hefty maintenance (not "membership") fees each year in order to extract whatever benefit you can from using the associated RCI Points (of unspecified number anywhere within your posts). 

It's entirely your choice and entirely your decision to make. Good luck.


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