# Southwest has hopped on the extra fees bandwagon



## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 2, 2009)

...and so it begins.......


http://www.southwest.com/flight/early-bird-faq.html?int=HOMEWNEW01CHECKN090902


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## UWSurfer (Sep 2, 2009)

I think the positive thing to take from this is they are creating a new service that they are charging extra for, rather than simply converting something they already include as a fee item.   Smart.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

I'd rather have them charge for something like this, which is an option, than baggage fees.  And the price is certainly more reasonable than the fees United has to allow "Premier" check in.


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## Patri (Sep 2, 2009)

Nah, it's sort of like AirTran charging $6 to pick your seat, rather than getting assigned one. SW has the cattle call system of boarding, so they are getting money from passengers who want to avoid that. It's definitely a start to be like every other airline.


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## pedro47 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sounds like a good deal right now.


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## happybaby (Sep 2, 2009)

I'd never pay for a seat assignment!

When you check in on line you are checking in for the entire segment of your flight.  So I check in at 7:15am (exactly 24 hrs. prior to my departure)the day before my flight and I get A boarding.  I sit at the computer ready to hit the button when the time arrives.

Now for my second segment of the flight I get a lower number A boarding because my flight is not leaving until 8:30am (9:30am my time) so therefore I am actually checking in 25 to 26 hrs ahead of my scheduled departure.

I am checking in 2 hours prior to passengers leaving from my layover airport.

Make sense?


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## Karen G (Sep 2, 2009)

happybaby said:


> I sit at the computer ready to hit the button when the time arrives.


I just did that this morning for a flight tomorrow at 10:35 a.m. As soon as the minute changed on my computer I hit the check-in button.  We were A28 and A29, so 27 people had already checked in ahead of us--either they were business customers or had paid extra to be early birds.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

What I'd like is more information on the "A" list passengers.  I'm looking on the  Southwest website and so far can't find anything.  According to this new information "A" list will still be seated before those who purchase early bird.  Also, it looks like purchasing early bird may not guarantee you a boarding pass in the A group.

I do remember that on the last flight I took on Southwest we were able to use the "A" list line to get through Security.  Don't know if someone just let us use it, or if we were really eligible.


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## happybaby (Sep 2, 2009)

That's about the seats I get also probably for the reasons you stated, but even before they added the early bird feature.  Still not a bad choice.  We always have a good seat.  I like window and put dh in the middle.

But our 2nd segment of the flight I get A 12 to maybe A18 , just depending.  I still won't pay for seat assignments!!!!!!!!  I'll spend that extra 40.00 on a meal, sightseeing, etc.


QUOTE=Karen G;785487]I just did that this morning for a flight tomorrow at 10:35 a.m. As soon as the minute changed on my computer I hit the check-in button.  We were A28 and A29, so 27 people had already checked in ahead of us--either they were business customers or had paid extra to be early birds.[/QUOTE]


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## gorevs9 (Sep 2, 2009)

happybaby said:


> Now for my second segment of the flight I get a lower number A boarding because my flight is not leaving until 8:30am (9:30am my time) so therefore I am actually checking in 25 to 26 hrs ahead of my scheduled departure.
> 
> I am checking in 2 hours prior to passengers leaving from my layover airport.
> 
> Make sense?


It works great for an early flight.  We got short-changed when flying a late flight from Vegas.  Since this was a major connecting flight from the West coast, by the time we checked in 24 hrs prior, we were already halfway down the B group.  Getting an extra hour to checkin probably wouldn't help me much.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

I found my own answer on the "A" list.  It's automatically bestowed on those who travel 32 segments within a specified time.  So, I'm guessing that we were "allowed" into the Security line by accident.


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## Jimster (Sep 2, 2009)

*Southwest*

I have never been an SW Airline fan.  I have always hated their cattle car approach to seating, (for me) their inconvenient airports, and the fact they are not international.  That being said, this was just inevitable.  The ONLY reason SW has not done what other airlines did is because they were locked into long term favorable fuel contracts.  As they expire, they will have to fight to stay profitable as well and this means they will have to charge fees.  I resent to some degree the people who sing SWA praises because their differential from other airlines was basically due to a guess to hedge fuel prices.  I don't mind it if those people know WHY SWA is so competitive but it is irritating when it comes from someone who is uninformed.  What is very interesting is how SWA expands as the opportunities arise (IE purchasing Frontier) and how they have grown from their present semi regional stautus to perhaps a very large airline.


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## happybaby (Sep 2, 2009)

Maybe it's luck.  On our return flight at 11:30 am West Coast Portland with a change in Phoenix AZ, departing about 330pm, we were still able to get the A boarding.


See what happens in about 2 weeks when we leave for our trip to Portland again to see DD..



gorevs9 said:


> It works great for an early flight.  We got short-changed when flying a late flight from Vegas.  Since this was a major connecting flight from the West coast, by the time we checked in 24 hrs prior, we were already halfway down the B group.  Getting an extra hour to checkin probably wouldn't help me much.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Sep 2, 2009)

Jimster said:


> I have never been an SW Airline fan.  I have always hated their cattle car approach to seating, (for me) their inconvenient airports, and the fact they are not international.  That being said, this was just inevitable.  The ONLY reason SW has not done what other airlines did is because they were locked into long term favorable fuel contracts.  As they expire, they will have to fight to stay profitable as well and this means they will have to charge fees.  I resent to some degree the people who sing SWA praises because their differential from other airlines was basically due to a guess to hedge fuel prices.  I don't mind it if those people know WHY SWA is so competitive but it is irritating when it comes from someone who is uninformed.  What is very interesting is how SWA expands as the opportunities arise (IE purchasing Frontier) and how they have grown from their present semi regional stautus to perhaps a very large airline.



You do not know what you are talking about. The issue of fuel hedging and long term contracts played a role only in the last 2-3 years; people (including CEOs of other airlines) have been singing praises of Southwest for much longer than that. It is OK that you do not like Southwest, but do not write like you an expert on airlines when clearly you are not. 

This new fee from Southwest is not same as the "nickel and dime" approach from other airlines. This is a classic product differentiation approach to offer a new service to the customers (probably business customers) who are willing to pay extra for the convenience of not having to be "mouse ready" exactly 24 hours before check-in time. With this new fee, one can get an A boarding pass by paying $10 each way or one can invest time and energy by printing the boarding pass exactly 24 hours beforehand. 

The book "Southwest airlines way" was published in 2005. Here are some excerpts from the book (copied from Amazon):

In an industry with losses in the billions, Southwest Airlines has an unbroken string of 31 consecutive years of profitability. The Southwest Airlines Way examines how the company uses high-performance relationships to create enormous competitive advantage in motivation, teamwork, and coordination among employees. It then goes further to show how any company can foster these powerful cooperative relationships and explains how to:

    * Lead with credibility and caring
    * Invest in frontline leaders
    * Hire and train for relational competence
    * Use conflicts to build relationships
    * Make unions its partners, not its adversaries
    * Build relationships with its suppliers


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## x3 skier (Sep 2, 2009)

I see that SW has FUBAR'd Maintenance again. When American did something similar, their entire MD-80 fleet was grounded. SW gets to Negotiate.

http://online.wsj.com/services/arti...DS=southwest+airlines&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month

Cheers


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

x3 skier said:


> I see that SW has FUBAR'd Maintenance again. When American did something similar, their entire MD-80 fleet was grounded. SW gets to Negotiate.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/services/arti...DS=southwest+airlines&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month
> 
> Cheers



Sorry, couldn't link to the article.  It requires a log in.


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## Karen G (Sep 2, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I do remember that on the last flight I took on Southwest we were able to use the "A" list line to get through Security.  Don't know if someone just let us use it, or if we were really eligible.


I don't understand what you mean about using the A list to get through security.  When you check in online, you print out your boarding pass and it shows which group you are in--A, B, or C.  It's the boarding pass that gets you through security, not which group you are in for Southwest, as far as I know.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

Karen G said:


> I don't understand what you mean about using the A list to get through security.  When you check in online, you print out your boarding pass and it shows which group you are in--A, B, or C.  It's the boarding pass that gets you through security, not which group you are in for Southwest, as far as I know.



The "A" list has nothing to do the the A, B, C boarding process.  The "A" list is for those who have flown 32 segments.  It allows you a special line for Security in some airports, and it also allows you to board early.  I had to look around a lot on the Southwest site before I found the information.

When we were going through an airport (and I don't remember which one it was) there was the regular security line and a line marked for "A" list.  I asked the TSA agent who was standing by the opening who the "A" list was and he just kind of waived us into the line.

Here is the link to the info about "A" list membership:

http://www.southwest.com/rapid_rewards/aList_membership.html


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## happybaby (Sep 2, 2009)

I think she was allowed by mistake.  Go to the SW website and under tools click on priority securtiy lane, fly by security lane and then click on A-List.  It's pretty lengthy, so if interested you can read it there.

This has nothing to do with the A,B or C boarding unless you have traveled 32 flights or more in a year, then you are rewarded and you go thru a shorter security line.  May be similiar to the advantages of purchasing a higher fare ticket also.




Karen G said:


> I don't understand what you mean about using the A list to get through security.  When you check in online, you print out your boarding pass and it shows which group you are in--A, B, or C.  It's the boarding pass that gets you through security, not which group you are in for Southwest, as far as I know.


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## Karen G (Sep 2, 2009)

Luanne said:


> The "A" list has nothing to do the the A, B, C boarding process.  The "A" list is for those who have flown 32 segments.  It allows you a special line for Security in some airports, and it also allows you to board early.  I had to look around a lot on the Southwest site before I found the information.


Wow! I learn something new every day.  That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a separate security line for Southwest and I think Las Vegas is one of the airports with the most Southwest flights in and out.

Here's the link in case anyone else wants to learn about it.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

Karen G said:


> Wow! I learn something new every day.  That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a separate security line for Southwest and I think Las Vegas is one of the airports with the most Southwest flights in and out.



I had never seen it either.  It may have been Tampa.  And I really didn't understand what it was until I found that information that I posted.


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## Jimster (Sep 2, 2009)

*Just a note on southwest*

I agree that prior to the current fuel problems that Southwest was a success story.  The CEO of SWA got many accolades and had his face plastered on many business magazines, but it was generally historically described as a strong regional airline rather than a national one which it has now become.  However, I was addressing the issues of fees which has been the issue in the last 2 or 3 years which is the same time frame we are talking about in terms of fuel contracts.  It is the fuel problems that have forced the other airlines to impose their fees-SWA did not  have that issue to contend with.  Hence, no fees on SWA.


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## happybaby (Sep 2, 2009)

Karen G

thanks for the link.   I don't know how to add all links when posting.

Checked the map and yes Pittsburgh has it!!!  Thought I saw it on previous flights.  No Las Vegas and Tampa do not.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 2, 2009)

I've always been a big fan of SW, and I don't like it.   

If it's a popular flight, and you're travelling as a family,(and want to sit together), then you almost _have_ to pay the fee.   

Otherwise, you have a very good chance of getting split up, and/or forced to sit in the dreaded "center seat".      

Not a great choice, especially for our upcoming flight from BWI to Vegas.   Since we're traveling with my wife's 80 yr old father, and a couple of in-laws who seldom fly, we may have no choice, but to pay the fee.  That adds $20.00pp.

You can best believe that the folks who run the airline know fully well that they're going to make a mint off of families who travel to places like Orlando,  because you can bet that families will pay this premimum to ensure that they aren't separated.  

Not cool


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

happybaby said:


> Karen G
> 
> thanks for the link.   I don't know how to add all links when posting.
> 
> Checked the map and yes Pittsburgh has it!!!  Thought I saw it on previous flights.  No Las Vegas and Tampa do not.



I didn't check the link before.  It would have been either Oakland or Kansas City.  Those are the only other airports where we went through security recently.


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## MULTIZ321 (Sep 2, 2009)

Luanne said:


> Sorry, couldn't link to the article.  It requires a log in.



Luanne,

See if these links work - I was able to open them from Google, but I don't know if they will work in Tug without a log in - FAA Investigates Southwest Over Parts - from Wall Street Journal Online

Southwest Incident Renews Maintenance Worries - from Wall Street Journal Online

FAA gives Southwest Airlines till December to repair planes outfitted with unapproved parts  - by David Koening, Associated Press


Richard


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## lily28 (Sep 2, 2009)

I also don't like the seating arrangement of southwest; I think it is very family unfriendly. when I traveled to orlando with my then 3 yr old daughter, I got A 58 and A59.  when I got on the plane, most of the aisle and window seats are gone. I was having nightmare that my daughter would be seated away from me.  luckily there were a couple seats together left all the way at the back of the plane.


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Luanne,
> 
> See if these links work - I was able to open them from Google, but I don't know if they will work in Tug without a log in - FAA Investigates Southwest Over Parts - from Wall Street Journal Online
> 
> ...



Thanks I could open these.  Not sure what the original poster meant though.     It sounds like SW is dealing with the issue.


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## AKE (Sep 2, 2009)

I would think that the benefits of this could dry up - i.e. if half the passengers pay the extra then why bother paying for this perk as the seat selection will be limited (its not as if this option was made available only to the first 10% of passengers checking in).  On a related topic, how does SW assign seats to families if this option gets popular and the family doesn't want to pay for it.  Could the kids be spread out all over the plane if there are no adjoining seats left and what would happen in an emergency (i.e. who would take responsibility for a child - the stranger sitting beside them versus the parent 10 row back?)


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## Luanne (Sep 2, 2009)

And please read ALL of the information.  There is no guarantee you'll even end up in the A boarding group, although the possibility is good you will.

I'd think there will still be 60 A slots.  Families, with small children, board between the A and B groups.  So families needing to sit together still have that option.


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## donnaval (Sep 3, 2009)

> I resent to some degree the people who sing SWA praises because their differential from other airlines was basically due to a guess to hedge fuel prices.



I do like SW's prices--but more importantly, I sing their praises because of their customer-friendly flexibility.  They allow changes, cancellations, etc. with minimal fuss and bother and I never hesitate making a reservation with them, since I know I can easily change it if our plans need a bit of tweaking.  No onerous change fees or penalties.  Easy-to-earn free vouchers.  Drinks!  What's not to love:whoopie: :whoopie: 

Since USAirways turned into scumbags and stuck it to our airport, SW has really been a boon to Pittsburgh.  So far, they haven't really taken over a lot of gates.  I hope they will expand here.


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## x3 skier (Sep 3, 2009)

*Sorry about the Link*



Luanne said:


> Thanks I could open these.  Not sure what the original poster meant though.     It sounds like SW is dealing with the issue.



Sorry my link did not work. My observation was that Southwest seems to get nothing but praise whilst others are sometimes considered part of The Evil Empire. IMHO, every airline has good and bad aspects.  

The current situation indicated to me that SWA was getting a bit of a pass from the FAA when American had their entire MD80 Fleet grounded because some screws holding a wire bundle were misplaced an inch or two.

Never have flown SWA and probably never will since they do not serve an airport within reasonable distance (<100 miles). My main experience in the USA has been with Delta, American, Useless Air and a little with United. If one is happy with the service and price, great. If not, there are usually other options, albeit sometimes less convenient. 

Cheers


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## gorevs9 (Sep 3, 2009)

happybaby said:


> Maybe it's luck.  On our return flight at 11:30 am West Coast Portland with a change in Phoenix AZ, departing about 330pm, we were still able to get the A boarding.
> 
> 
> See what happens in about 2 weeks when we leave for our trip to Portland again to see DD..


You would not have a problem if you boarded in Portland for the first leg of your flight.  You can get boarding passes for both legs at 11:30 the previous day.  If a passenger starts his/her trip with the 3:30pm Pheonix flight, they can not do online checkin until 3:30pm, after which time many of the 'A' boarding have already been allocated earlier in the morning.


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## happybaby (Sep 3, 2009)

gorevs9

I know that, but I was referring to post #10 where they said their flight was later pm and their boarding pass was into the middle B group.  All I can figure out is they did not check in at the 24 hr time.  Within 1/2 hr and probably sooner your A boarding will be assigned and be into the B and possibly theC group.

Even before they had the A, B, C boarding according to numerical order, dh, and I were always together even with taking gr.d.  OP was concerned about family being separated.  If you have young ones, I think under 4, you will board after disabled, then the group boarding starts





gorevs9 said:


> You would not have a problem if you boarded in Portland for the first leg of your flight.  You can get boarding passes for both legs at 11:30 the previous day.  If a passenger starts his/her trip with the 3:30pm Pheonix flight, they can not do online checkin until 3:30pm, after which time many of the 'A' boarding have already been allocated earlier in the morning.


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## John Cummings (Sep 4, 2009)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> ...and so it begins.......
> 
> 
> http://www.southwest.com/flight/early-bird-faq.html?int=HOMEWNEW01CHECKN090902



This is not an extra fee. It is just an option if you want to have priority boarding. Actually is a good deal as for just $10.00 you will get to check-in earlier than the masses. I suspect a lot of people will take advantage of this option.


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## John Cummings (Sep 4, 2009)

Jimster said:


> I have never been an SW Airline fan.  I have always hated their cattle car approach to seating, (for me) their inconvenient airports, and the fact they are not international.  That being said, this was just inevitable.  The ONLY reason SW has not done what other airlines did is because they were locked into long term favorable fuel contracts.  As they expire, they will have to fight to stay profitable as well and this means they will have to charge fees.  I resent to some degree the people who sing SWA praises because their differential from other airlines was basically due to a guess to hedge fuel prices.  I don't mind it if those people know WHY SWA is so competitive but it is irritating when it comes from someone who is uninformed.  What is very interesting is how SWA expands as the opportunities arise (IE purchasing Frontier) and how they have grown from their present semi regional stautus to perhaps a very large airline.



So you are saying that the only reason SWA has generally had lower fares is because of their fuel contracts. I seriously doubt that as SWA has been cheaper for many years long before fuel was a big factor. The fact is they have lower overhead. A good part of this is because they can turn their flights around faster because of their system.

Having said that, SWA is not always the cheapest anymore like they used to be. I got r/t on American for October from Ontario, CA to Dallas non-stop cheaper than SWA.


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## geekette (Sep 4, 2009)

AKE said:


> On a related topic, how does SW assign seats to families if this option gets popular and the family doesn't want to pay for it.  Could the kids be spread out all over the plane if there are no adjoining seats left and what would happen in an emergency (i.e. who would take responsibility for a child - the stranger sitting beside them versus the parent 10 row back?)



If I am that stranger, I will absolutely look after your child until you are reunited and I would hope that anyone would do the same.  In an emergency, we aren't strangers, we're all survivors-to-be.


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## geekette (Sep 4, 2009)

*OT Humor*

Did anyone see David Letterman last night?  He unveiled one of the other components of SW's new policies:  the optional truncheon for getting people out of your way so you could get the best seats.


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## cotraveller (Sep 4, 2009)

You get to be an ordinary run of the mill cow for no charge.  If you want to be Choice Black Angus Beef it costs you $10 each way.  Just another money making gimmick.


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## Luanne (Sep 4, 2009)

cotraveller said:


> You get to be an ordinary run of the mill cow for no charge.  If you want to be Choice Black Angus Beef it costs you $10 each way.  Just another money making gimmick.



So, don't pay it and don't use it.  Or don't fly them.  We all have choices.


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## John Cummings (Sep 4, 2009)

Luanne said:


> So, don't pay it and don't use it.  Or don't fly them.  We all have choices.



I am with you. People are complaining about something that they have no obligation to take.


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## John Cummings (Sep 4, 2009)

cotraveller said:


> You get to be an ordinary run of the mill cow for no charge.  If you want to be Choice Black Angus Beef it costs you $10 each way.  Just another money making gimmick.



At least you have a choice now.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 5, 2009)

Luanne said:


> So, don't pay it and don't use it.  Or don't fly them.  We all have choices.





John Cummings said:


> I am with you. People are complaining about something that they have no obligation to take.




The issue is when families travel with young children, you best believe that they are going to pay the extra $10.00 every time, to make sure that they can sit together.  I wholeheartedly agree that there is no "obligation" to pay the fee.   The reality is that people _will _be paying, because that's the only way that they can help ensure that they won't be separated from their kids.   

They're going to make a mint on families traveling to Orlando and on any destination where families with young kids travel.  

You better believe that SW knew exactly what they were doing.  

It's a clever, (albeit sneaky), tactic to gain increase revenue, while maintaining the "we're the good guys because we don't charge extra fees" reputation, because, as John C. correctly stated, you "have no obligation" to pay.

We love SW, and utilize them frequently,  but I believe that they dropped the ball on this one.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 5, 2009)

Jimster said:


> I agree that prior to the current fuel problems that Southwest was a success story.  The CEO of SWA got many accolades and had his face plastered on many business magazines, but it was generally historically described as a strong regional airline rather than a national one which it has now become.  However, I was addressing the issues of fees which has been the issue in the last 2 or 3 years which is the same time frame we are talking about in terms of fuel contracts.  It is the fuel problems that have forced the other airlines to impose their fees-SWA did not  have that issue to contend with.  Hence, no fees on SWA.



Southwest Airlines is the best American airline ever.  Fuel hedging or not, they differentiate themselves by their customer service, a loyal following and price competitiveness.

Sure, they made some great decisions on fuel hedging in the past.  That's over.  And, so is $125/barrell oil.

This service fee is completely different than the mandatory baggage fee charged by every other airline.  There is a HUGE difference between charging a fee for something you always got for free and having an optional charge that provides a better service for your money.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 5, 2009)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> The issue is when families travel with young children, you best believe that they are going to pay the extra $10.00 every time, to make sure that they can sit together.  I wholeheartedly agree that there is no "obligation" to pay the fee.   The reality is that people _will _be paying, because that's the only way that they can help ensure that they won't be separated from their kids.
> 
> They're going to make a mint on families traveling to Orlando and on any destination where families with young kids travel.
> 
> ...



Sounds like smart business to me.  If consumers accept your policies, that is NOT dropping the ball.  That is outstanding management.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 5, 2009)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> I've always been a big fan of SW, and I don't like it.
> 
> If it's a popular flight, and you're travelling as a family,(and want to sit together), then you almost _have_ to pay the fee.
> 
> ...




If you don't like it, you can try another airline that meets your needs better.  You'll probably be much happier there.

For me, I'll take Southwest whenever I can.


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## timeos2 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Where's the beef?*



BocaBum99 said:


> If you don't like it, you can try another airline that meets your needs better.  You'll probably be much happier there.
> 
> For me, I'll take Southwest whenever I can.



I miss the short run series on (I think) A&E called "Airline" that featured a daily visit with SW operations at various airports.  What they do to make customers happy, how things both within & beyond their control can lead to problems and just how (often unfairly) demanding the "always right" customer can be. I was surprised a lot of it made it on TV but it sure was interesting and gave a real insiders view of a stressful and very successful operation.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2009)

The planes load front to back, basically, so I don't see why you couldn't sit next to your family, if you didn't pay the $10.  I see this as a way to get extra cash for the emergency exit seats.  

It's smart of them, and as long as I don't have to pay $30 RT for my only checked bag, I am fine with Southwest, because they charge, for their regular prices, essentially the same as Frontier's sale price on a fare to Orlando, then Frontier adds that &^$@ (excuse my French) $30 for the bag, and now we are paying more on Frontier, the Colorado-based airline that is supposed to be the low cost Denver carrier.  

I am done with my rant.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 5, 2009)

BocaBum99 said:


> Sounds like smart business to me.  If consumers accept your policies, that is NOT dropping the ball.  That is outstanding management.



I agree, it _is_ outstanding management.   I think that they dropped the ball in that they are taking advantage of people who will feel obligated to pay the fee to avoid being split up.



BocaBum99 said:


> If you don't like it, you can try another airline that meets your needs better.  You'll probably be much happier there.
> 
> For me, I'll take Southwest whenever I can.



Ahhh...another Southwest apologist.  They're on every travel board.    If someone dares to question one of their policies, or casts them in a negative light,  they come out of the woodwork.     It must be something that they put in their peanuts! 

I'll "probably be much happier there?"      How do _you_ know?   You don't know me, nor do you know what makes me happy.  

For domestic travel, SW meets our needs and we will continue to patronize them.  Our kids are grown up, so the new policy will have little effect on most of our travels.   

Initially, I thought that the new policy was going to affect an upcoming trip with my 80yr old father-in-law, as there will be five of us flying.   Since he'll be utilizing a wheelchair, the policy won't affect us at all, as my wife can accompany him as he boards the plane.

Now that it does not affect us, my opinion of the new policy has not changed.

It stinks.


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## Luanne (Sep 5, 2009)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> The issue is when families travel with young children, you best believe that they are going to pay the extra $10.00 every time, to make sure that they can sit together.



As I said before, the boarding policy of allowing families with young children to board between the A and B groups hasn't changed.  There are 60 spots in the A boarding group.  Boarding after that group still allows families to sit together.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 5, 2009)

Luanne said:


> As I said before, the boarding policy of allowing families with young children to board between the A and B groups hasn't changed.  There are 60 spots in the A boarding group.  Boarding after that group still allows families to sit together.



Good point.


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## cotraveller (Sep 5, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> . . . essentially the same as Frontier's sale price on a fare to Orlando, then Frontier adds that &^$@ (excuse my French) $30 for the bag, and now we are paying more on Frontier, the Colorado-based airline that is supposed to be the low cost Denver carrier.
> 
> I am done with my rant.



If you are going to fly Frontier and check baggage you might as well get their "Classic" fare.  $20 more each way compared to $15 each way to check one bag.  You get a preassigned seat at the time you make the reservation; you can check 2 bags for no charge; free Direct-TV if that interests you; 25% more frequent flyer miles; and if you need to change your flights the change fee is $50 rather than $150.

If there are two of you flying and you don't care about sitting together you could get one classic fare and one economy fare.  Then you can check two bags on the classic fare for no extra charge and none on the economy ticket.  $40 total extra for the classic fare vs $60 for checking 2 bags roundtrip on an economy ticket.

We fly Frontier out of Denver unless there is a good reason to choose a different airline, which usually means we are going somewhere that Frontier doesn't or their schedule doesn't work for our plans.  You can use the second checked bag on the classic fare to ship back everything you buy. On a spring Florida trip that lets me check a box of Florida grapefruit on the way home.  No comparison the the Texas ones they sell in the grocery stores here.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2009)

They give extra miles for that fare?  We have six FF tickets built up at this time, and I have a difficult time finding dates.  I used to love Frontier, but I have changed my tune.


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## Patri (Sep 5, 2009)

It'd be hilarious if parents DID NOT pay extra to sit with their kids. Split up. Let the family shout out to each other the whole flight to see how everyone is doing, walk up and down the aisle checking on kids and handing out treats etc. The poor passengers next to them can deal with the crumbs, spilled drinks, crying etc. SW might change its tune pretty fast.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 5, 2009)

Patri said:


> It'd be hilarious if parents DID NOT pay extra to sit with their kids. Split up. Let the family shout out to each other the whole flight to see how everyone is doing, walk up and down the aisle checking on kids and handing out treats etc. The poor passengers next to them can deal with the crumbs, spilled drinks, crying etc. SW might change its tune pretty fast.



The picture this creates in my head, just too funny.  :rofl:


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## Luanne (Sep 5, 2009)

Patri said:


> It'd be hilarious if parents DID NOT pay extra to sit with their kids. Split up. Let the family shout out to each other the whole flight to see how everyone is doing, walk up and down the aisle checking on kids and handing out treats etc. The poor passengers next to them can deal with the crumbs, spilled drinks, crying etc. SW might change its tune pretty fast.



I don't know why folks keep thinking it's going to be different than it is now.    If families do not have A boarding passes they can board between the A and B groups.  Since only 60 passengers would have boarded before them they should still be able to find seats togethers.  They may be farther back in the plane, but oh well.


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## mdurette (Sep 5, 2009)

geekette said:


> If I am that stranger, I will absolutely look after your child until you are reunited and I would hope that anyone would do the same.  In an emergency, we aren't strangers, we're all survivors-to-be.




This has happened on flights even before this option.  Usually it is the family running late and are close to the last ones on the flight.  They will typically ask if anyone would be willing to move so at least one parent can sit with each child.

My husband and I have split up before in the past to allow this to happen.


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## mdurette (Sep 5, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I don't know why folks keep thinking it's going to be different than it is now.    If families do not have A boarding passes they can board between the A and B groups.  Since only 60 passengers would have boarded before them they should still be able to find seats togethers.  They may be farther back in the plane, but oh well.



I THINK family boarding is with children either less than 4 or 6 years old.   Even if my kid was 10 I would still want to sit with them.


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## Luanne (Sep 5, 2009)

mdurette said:


> I THINK family boarding is with children either less than 4 or 6 years old.   Even if my kid was 10 I would still want to sit with them.



I don't know what the age policy is. 

So, everyone who is fuming about this new option is _assuming_ that every family with kids who are older than 4 or 6, or whatever, is going to pay the additional fee to sit together.  Isn't that their option?


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 6, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I don't know what the age policy is.
> 
> So, everyone who is fuming about this new option is _assuming_ that every family with kids who are older than 4 or 6, or whatever, is going to pay the additional fee to sit together.  Isn't that their option?



Uh.....yes?  (and....no)

I don't think people are fuming, just making observations based on the facts.  

The fact is that SW is sticking it to some of their customers.

The problem is that most parents probably don't want their young children to be separated from them.

Not much of an "option"


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## Luanne (Sep 6, 2009)

Skinsfan1311 said:


> Uh.....yes?  (and....no)
> 
> I don't think people are fuming, just making observations based on the facts.
> 
> ...



I'm more of a "wait and see" type of person.  Maybe if no one purchases this option things will remain as they are and the fee will be discontinued.

Since I don't have young kids and most of the time I'm either traveling alone, or with one other person, I'm not too concerned. And if I did have young kids I wouldn't automatically assume I had to purchase this in order for us to be able to sit together.  As I said, I'd wait and see.


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## Karen G (Sep 6, 2009)

We used the new option this weekend to check in for our flight today. The flight left at 10 a.m.  Yesterday we knew we weren't going to be near a computer to check in at 10 a.m. so about 8 a.m. Sat. we bought the early bird option. We got A16 & 17 and were very pleased with the service. It was worth the extra $20 total.


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## Skinsfan1311 (Sep 7, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I'm more of a "wait and see" type of person.  Maybe if no one purchases this option things will remain as they are and the fee will be discontinued.
> 
> Since I don't have young kids and most of the time I'm either traveling alone, or with one other person, I'm not too concerned. And if I did have young kids I wouldn't automatically assume I had to purchase this in order for us to be able to sit together.  As I said, I'd wait and see.



We'll do the same.    

Given that 99.9% of the time we travel as a couple this probably won't affect us either.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Sep 7, 2009)

SW works for us as it flies Ontario to Oakland on our frequent Bay Area trips and is much cheaper. I would use Jet Blue, (also cheaper), but it flies from Long Beach which is an hour further away. I like SW, but I'm not "attached" to them. However, they have never lost my luggage, the customer service people are always helpful and I can earn the free flights, so I guess I am a loyal customer. 
Liz


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Sep 7, 2009)

Oh I forgot another big plus, no charge to change our reservations or rebook. That's a biggie for me.
Liz


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 7, 2009)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> Oh I forgot another big plus, no charge to change our reservations or rebook. That's a biggie for me.
> Liz



Is this actually true for the cheaper seats?  I always buy the least expensive, but it appears the more expensive seats have that ability.


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## John Cummings (Sep 7, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Is this actually true for the cheaper seats?  I always buy the least expensive, but it appears the more expensive seats have that ability.



Yes, it is true for all categories of tickets. There are no fees for changing your reservations period. However, you could pay more if the new reservation results in a higher fare. We have often changed our tickets, especially changing our return flight at no extra cost.


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## DaveNV (Sep 7, 2009)

FYI about the new SW Early Bird boarding deal:  It's a cash-only thing.

We've had reservations since June on SW for later this month, flying from Seattle to Las Vegas.  Ticket prices for the flights have gone up, so cancelling and rebooking would cost more than we've already spent.  Since I have a $92 credit with SW that we may not be able to use, I decided to use some of it to add the Early Bird option for our tickets.  $40 total for two, round-trip.

After spending quite a bit of time on the SW website, and finally calling them, I learned it can't be done.  (So the agent said.)  I explained the deal, and the credit they had for money I'd given them for a flight that was cancelled.  Since I'd paid cash for the original tickets, in my mind this $92 credit was also as good as cash.

Nope.  No deal.  If I wanted the Early Bird ("EB" as they call it) option, I'd have to pony up another $40 for the privilege.  As we'll be on the go a lot during the week we're traveling, I opted to spend the extra money to get it.  But I'm still stuck with this $92 credit I may not be able to use.  

You may have a different experience.  But I think it's kind of annoying.  :annoyed: 

Dave


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## bnoble (Sep 7, 2009)

> This new fee from Southwest is not same as the "nickel and dime" approach from other airlines.


If it walks like a duck...

Personally, I'm surprised it has taken them this long.  Sothwest has been put in the difficult position of having to change their brand identity.  Once upon a time, SW was the low-cost, no-frills airline.  Back when the legacies used to serve food on planes, southwest was a strictly snacks-and-drinks operation.  No assigned seats.  And so on.

Lately, they've had to market themselves as the full-service all-inclusive airline: we include your bags, we don't charge extra for snacks/drinks, etc.  Changing your brand identity is very very hard---once customers view you one way, changing their attitudes takes a lot of time and marketing.

As long as they are able to command the low price point, that would be mostly okay.  But, I'm convinced that the average consumer is irrational---they just compare the fares directly, they don't think about the all-in cost.  This means that SW's competitors can generate more revenue at the same perceived price point.

We almost never fly them, because out of Detroit, they are rarely price competitive with Northwest on the few nonstop routes they fly, and I'd rather pay a little more for a non-stop flight.  Every once in a while they are so much lower that I'll give them a spin, but that doesn't seem to happen very often---usually they are close to NW's prices for the same route, with much less convenient routings.


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## John Cummings (Sep 7, 2009)

BMWguynw said:


> FYI about the new SW Early Bird boarding deal:  It's a cash-only thing.
> 
> We've had reservations since June on SW for later this month, flying from Seattle to Las Vegas.  Ticket prices for the flights have gone up, so cancelling and rebooking would cost more than we've already spent.  Since I have a $92 credit with SW that we may not be able to use, I decided to use some of it to add the Early Bird option for our tickets.  $40 total for two, round-trip.
> 
> ...



I see nothing wrong with it. Your credit is for future travel on Southwest, not for extras. I have had the same thing with SWA. This is no different than other airlines. I have a $200 credit with Alaska Airlines. They would not allow me to apply it to upgrade to first class when we flew back from Cancun to Los Angeles in April. I had to pay for it. They said the credit can only be applied to future travel on Alaska within the next year.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't remember them saying there was an age limit of families traveling together and boarding between A and B groups.
Liz


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## x3 skier (Sep 9, 2009)

*~$50 to check a bag*

Ryan Air now is going to charge 30 Pounds each way to check a bag. I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky if there is no or a smaller fee here in the USA.

Cheers


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## talkamotta (Sep 9, 2009)

*I Love Swa*

The main reason is because I love companies who treat thier employees well. 

SWA is one of the few compainies that the Union and Company work so well together.  Its amazing.  

I love thier customer service.  You can just tell them what you are trying to do and they will help you.  They treat me the same whether I was on a pass or w/a ticket. 

In one instance one of the pilots was retiring.  His last flight was from LAX to MCO.  He went over the intercom and said that the best thing he ever did was marry his wife, second work for SWA.  When the plane arrive in MCO the plane next to him was filled with family and friends.  They had tables of food waiting for him.  They invited all passengers to get some food and stay if they can.  

I dont mind the cattle run.  I usually will get an A or B boarding pass and I like the fact I can see where the kids are so I can sit accordingly.  Nothing like paying alot of money for a seat and having some little kid kick your seat all the way through the flight.  

I dont work for SWA, my son did while he was going to school.  He was treated very well.


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## John Cummings (Sep 9, 2009)

talkamotta said:


> The main reason is because I love companies who treat thier employees well.
> 
> SWA is one of the few compainies that the Union and Company work so well together.  Its amazing.
> 
> ...



I agree with you on all points.


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## x3 skier (Sep 11, 2009)

Interesting Blog from the WSJ on SWA and Fees.

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/09/02/nickel-and-diming-at-southwest-airlines/

Still I wish they flew from my home airport. 

Cheers


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## bogey21 (Sep 11, 2009)

donnaval said:


> They allow changes, cancellations, etc. with minimal fuss and bother and I never hesitate making a reservation with them, since I know I can easily change it if our plans need a bit of tweaking.  No onerous change fees or penalties.



I have flown SW all the way back to when they only served 3 cities in Texas.  It used to be for the price and the ease of earning free tickets.  Both of those are pretty well gone.  What keeps me there though is the no-penalty, no-hassle ability to change reservatons.

George


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## bogey21 (Sep 11, 2009)

Luanne said:


> As I said before, the boarding policy of allowing families with young children to board between the A and B groups hasn't changed.  There are 60 spots in the A boarding group.  Boarding after that group still allows families to sit together.



True, but you aren't counting the thru passengers already on the plane.  Sometimes there are a lot of them

George


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## John Cummings (Sep 11, 2009)

I find it amusing that so many people get all worked up about an optional $10.00 fee. If boarding in the A group is so important then just pay the fee or take your chances. The B group will still give you plenty of decent seating options. You still can have a similar problem with assigned seating if you don't book your tickets well ahead of time. Many airlines hold back more than half their seat assignments until check-in.


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## Luanne (Sep 11, 2009)

bogey21 said:


> True, but you aren't counting the thru passengers already on the plane.  Sometimes there are a lot of them
> 
> George



True, probably because most of the time I'm on an originating flight.

But, I'm still not going to get my knickers in a knot over this.


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## Luanne (Sep 11, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> I find it amusing that so many people get all worked up about an optional $10.00 fee. If boarding in the A group is so important then just pay the fee or take your chances. The B group will still give you plenty of decent seating options. You still can have a similar problem with assigned seating if you don't book your tickets well ahead of time. Many airlines hold back more than half their seat assignments until check-in.



Hear, hear!


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## happybaby (Sep 14, 2009)

Well, got my boarding pass this morning in A Group.  38 and 39 on our first segment and A group 54 and 55 for the connecting flight.

I usually get lower numbers on my connecting flight tho.  

I still didnt pay the extra dollars and won't.


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## Luanne (Sep 14, 2009)

I read a short blurb in the travel section of our local newpaper over the weekend. According to some poll  most SW flyers will *not* be taking advantage of this new service.  I think it was something like 17% thought they _might_.


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## happybaby (Sep 14, 2009)

WOW   that's a surprise.  I thought many did since I had such a high number on my connecting flight.  I always get an A boarding with numbers in the 30's or lower.   Maybe the flight is coming from someplace else with no change of planes.


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## John Cummings (Sep 14, 2009)

happybaby said:


> WOW   that's a surprise.  I thought many did since I had such a high number on my connecting flight.  I always get an A boarding with numbers in the 30's or lower.   Maybe the flight is coming from someplace else with no change of planes.



It appears that they have expanded the Group A. I thought that each group had 30 seats.


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## gorevs9 (Sep 14, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> It appears that they have expanded the Group A. I thought that each group had 30 seats.


As far as I know, each group goes from 1 to 60.


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## happybaby (Sep 14, 2009)

it's more then 30.  The first row is for 1 to 30, then the 2nd row must be 31 to 60.  So we are at the end of the A boarding on our connecting flight.  I'll still get my window seat and stick dh in the middle unless he wants to sit elsewhere.


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## Luanne (Sep 14, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> It appears that they have expanded the Group A. I thought that each group had 30 seats.



It's always been 60.  Or at least it has been ever since they've had the A-B-C numbered seating groups.


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## John Cummings (Sep 14, 2009)

Luanne said:


> It's always been 60.  Or at least it has been ever since they've had the A-B-C numbered seating groups.



I guess I have never had greater than 30 before. I don't fly nearly as much on SWA as I used to as I have been able to get better fares on Alaska, American, and Jet Blue. Alaska is my favorite but unfortunately they are only good for Mexico and the West Coast.


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## Luanne (Sep 14, 2009)

I've found that even when I check in 24 hours ahead I'm getting in the 30's or higher.  But, since I haven't had any problems with seating once I'm on board I haven't been concerned.


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## happybaby (Sep 14, 2009)

This is the highest I've received especially on the connecting flight.  I usally get high teens to twenty's.  And I'm on line prior to that 24 hr mark ready to hit the button. 

I see that my connecting flight originated elsewhere and making a stop but not chenaging planes so that explains why I have in the 50's for the connecting flight whereas I'd be checking in 26 hrs ahead of schedule.

Still I am not concerned enough to pay an extra fee.


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## happybaby (Sep 18, 2009)

With my higher then usual A boarding numbers, we still had many seats to choose from.  Even on our connecting flight with a number of 54 and 55 and people on the plane,not having to switch, we had very good seats.

Some of the passengers were more concerned about getting a "C" boarding assignment if they had alot of carry on luggage because by then all the overhead bins are full.   That seemed to be there main concern.  

For us, we check our luggage.  It's free!!!  Only carry on our meds and personal belongins such as camera, etc.


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## Reno27 (Oct 4, 2009)

this is very nice thread. i got so many information about SW.
geez, thanks for sharing it.


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## Rose Pink (Oct 21, 2009)

I printed my boarding pass at the 24 hour mark and got in the second half of the As.  The plane was full and even though I boarded before most passengers and had a window seat, that didn't stop Mr. Stinky from sitting next to me.  

On my return flight, I couldn't check in at the 24 hour mark but still got a better number (A24) than the previous flight.  It was not a full flight.  Only four people boarded before me despite my position as #24 and anyone who wanted got their own row.  That was nice for the passengers though not so much for the airline.

I don't see the advantage of paying an extra $10 bucks.  It doesn't stop stinky people from sitting close to you.


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## Luanne (Oct 21, 2009)

I hate to admit it, but I went to the "dark side" and I'm using the early check in for our return flights over Thanksgiving.  Usually the day before we leave I drive myself nuts trying to make sure I'm near a computer and can get checked in.  This time I decided to bite the bullet and pay the extra.


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## jamstew (Oct 21, 2009)

Although I don't think $10 is a bad deal in the greater scheme of things, especially since SW doesn't have fees for bags or changes, I'm not going to pay it unless and until I get stuck with a center seat checking in at 24 hours. I don't have to be near a computer since I can check in from my iPhone.


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## Rose Pink (Oct 22, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I hate to admit it, but I went to the "dark side" and I'm using the early check in for our return flights over Thanksgiving. Usually the day before we leave I drive myself nuts trying to make sure I'm near a computer and can get checked in. This time I decided to bite the bullet and pay the extra.


 
I can see doing this if you can't check in at the 24-hour mark and if you need overhead space and if the flight is likely to be full.  However, if alot of other passengers also do this, it negates the advantage.  If half the people pay their ten bucks, what advantage?


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## Luanne (Oct 22, 2009)

Rose Pink said:


> I can see doing this if you can't check in at the 24-hour mark and if you need overhead space and if the flight is likely to be full.  However, if alot of other passengers also do this, it negates the advantage.  If half the people pay their ten bucks, what advantage?



This is exactly why I've been opposed to the whole thing.......and why I said I'd gone to the "dark side". 

I think the flights will be full since it's Thanksgiving weekend.  I think we'll need overhead as dh is bringing a computer.  And I don't want to be tied down the day before we leave Santa Fe waiting to check in.  It's not just one flight, it's three differerent SW flights, leaving several hours apart.


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## readyalready (Oct 23, 2009)

I just checked in for my first SW flight since the new fee.  I sat at my computer the minute before my check in time and kept trying to get in til it took.  I got a low B boarding number, so either there are a ton of people connecting tonight or a lot of people have paid the extra fee, so it is working for them.


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## Dori (Oct 23, 2009)

I was about 15 minutes past the 24 hour mark in checking in on-line for our flight from LV to Buffalo.  We wound up with B29 and 30.  Not so great, but I really don't want to pay the extra $$.  We still love SW!

Dori


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