# New...And Already Confused



## jb123 (Feb 12, 2006)

After reading about all kinds of timeshares, I am thinking that the hotel-based ones are best for our family. How do I go about deciding which one is best? I can't seem to find any articles comparing them, etc. I think I am most interested in Starwood and Marriott.

Can anyone put me in the right direction?

Thanks.

JB


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 12, 2006)

Use the search function to see what has been written about the 2 resorts - also resort reviews/ratings (TUG membership is a bargin for this info).

Of course, your budget is key - 
Your travel costs are important - so determine how far you want to travel.

Also, the types of vacations you and your family like to take - FLA may work for you.  Many Starwood resorts there and being built from what I read.  I do not know much about Marriott  (we are Starwood folks)

If you are buying resale - go to the main resale websites (TUG, Redweek, eBay...) to see what folks are asking.

If you ever plan to exchange - consider what the value of these resorts/locations- same if you ever need to rent out.

Consider MFs.

If you buy from the Developer - you will pay a premium for a unit that will most likely decrease in value - don't believe anything the salesperson says - check with TUG.  Hold out for the best incentives.

Coming to TUG was a great first decision...


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## grgs (Feb 12, 2006)

For an overview of Starwood read this article:

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

Also, you can see this earlier thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7464&highlight=starwood+marriott

Unfortunately, the other threads referred to in that link are no longer available.

In short, I would say that Starwood offers more flexibility with its StarOptions program, buy Marriott has many more resorts to choose from.

Glorian


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## Bill4728 (Feb 13, 2006)

You must be very carefull buying a Starwood TS. Because unlike any other TS company were you buy gives you very different rights as a TS owner. 

If you buy any Starwood TS from the developer, (you'll pay way too much) you will be able to use your TS at that home location, use your TS points for direct trades to other Starwood TS and trade your TS into the hotel reward point program. 

BUT now comes the bad thing. There are two kind of Starwood TS, manditory and non manditory.  

A manditory TS, if you buy resale, you'll be able to use your home resort and trade to other starwood TS resorts, but not be able to use hotel points program. And because it has this feature, (internal starwood exchanges) when you sell, its resale value is very high. 

If you buy non-manditory, you'll only be able to stay in your home resort. You'll not be able to do direct exchanges into other Starwood TS or the hotel point program. And because of this, when you sell you'll get a much lower resale value. 


Marriott treats all their owners the same, with one exception. If you buy from Marriott, you'll be able to trade your TS for Hotel points and can not if you buy from the resale market.  This IMHO, makes buying a Marriott a much better deal than Starwood.


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## grgs (Feb 13, 2006)

I absolutely agree with Bill that it's imperative to understand the difference between mandatory and non-mandatory resorts.  I would hesitate to buy a non-mandatory resort from the developer given the huge hit you'll take should you decide to sell it.  However, I think you can get some good deals buying a non-mandatory resale since they are priced so low--as long as you realize they don't come with StarOptions.

I do think that the Starwood system has some advantages over Marriott.  There is no lockoff fee, and no fee for an internal exchange.  Also, Starwood provides a lot more flexibility with its StarOption system.  For example, I was able to exchange my 2 bedroom Kierland for 11 days in a 1 bedroom in Maui (I actually could have had 13 days, but decide to keep a few StarOptions for a weekend getaway).  I also like the fact that with Starwood you don't have to worry about trade power (unless you're going for an external exchange).  A StarOption is StarOption and it matters not which resort you own at.  So Vistana Villages, Kierland and St. John all have the same chance to trade into Ka'anapali at 8 months out.

That being said, I think Marriott also has a great product.  I only wish Starwood had as many resorts to choose from.

Glorian


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## duke (Feb 13, 2006)

Let me ask another question:  If you buy a Resale for a NON-mandatory/voluntary resort...can you use break up your weeks into days using the staroption values or do you have to use full weeks??


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## iluvwdw (Feb 13, 2006)

duke said:
			
		

> Let me ask another question:  If you buy a Resale for a NON-mandatory/voluntary resort...can you use break up your weeks into days using the staroption values or do you have to use full weeks??



If you buy RESALE for a NON Mandatory resort, you can break up your week and stay for shorter than a week long stay ONLY AT YOUR HOME RESORT.  And when you stay for less than a week, you can only book at your home resort within 90 days of your check-in date.


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## grgs (Feb 13, 2006)

iluvwdw said:
			
		

> If you buy RESALE for a NON Mandatory resort, you can break up your week and stay for shorter than a week long stay ONLY AT YOUR HOME RESORT.  And when you stay for less than a week, you can only book at your home resort within 90 days of your check-in date.



I'm not sure you'd even be able to do this at your home resort since there are no StarOptions attached.  My understanding is that you could only use a non-mandatory resale as a traditional 1 week stay.

If someone knows different, please let us know.

Glorian


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## duke (Feb 13, 2006)

Yes, that was exactly my question.  Can you break up your weeks into days at your Home non-mandatory resort if you bought Resale??  I know you don't get *Options but can you still use the Option schedule for days to break up your week at the Home voluntary resort?


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## seenett (Feb 13, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> ...BUT now comes the bad thing. There are two kind of Starwood TS, manditory and non manditory.
> 
> A manditory TS, if you buy resale, you'll be able to use your home resort and trade to other starwood TS resorts, but not be able to use hotel points program. And because it has this feature, (internal starwood exchanges) when you sell, its resale value is very high...



And the bad part is?


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## seenett (Feb 13, 2006)

duke said:
			
		

> Yes, that was exactly my question.  Can you break up your weeks into days at your Home non-mandatory resort if you bought Resale??  I know you don't get *Options but can you still use the Option schedule for days to break up your week at the Home voluntary resort?



No.  If you buy a resale non-mandatory resort, you are buying a *week* in a certain season ONLY - just like almost every other timeshare system.

The week will have no weekly StarOption value, and thus no daily StarOption value for incremental daily stays.

Even with StarOptions available, everytime you use reserve anything else *but* a full week at your home resort in your season, you are using options.  This is always done outside the Home Resort Preference Period - so there is no home resort preference for split weeks anyway.


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## seenett (Feb 13, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> Marriott treats all their owners the same, with one exception. If you buy from Marriott, you'll be able to trade your TS for Hotel points and can not if you buy from the resale market.  This IMHO, makes buying a Marriott a much better deal than Starwood.



Bill - 

I'm not sure I understand why you believe Marriott is a much better deal. 

A Marriott owner can only trade into another Marriott with an exchange company, although there is a Marriott for Marriott preference.  This is true no matter if it is a resale or not.

A Starwood owner can trade into another Starwood with an exchange company, and there is also a Starwood for Starwood preference.  This is true no matter if it is a resale or not.  Additionally, owners who bought a developer unit or bought a mandatory resale have the ability to trade internally to other Starwoods at no charge.

To me, Starwood has more trading choices.  In the "worst case" scenario of buying a resale non-mandatory Starwood resort, the owner would still have the exact same choices as a Marriott owner.


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## Ken555 (Feb 14, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> BUT now comes the bad thing. There are two kind of Starwood TS, manditory and non manditory.
> 
> Marriott treats all their owners the same, with one exception. If you buy from Marriott, you'll be able to trade your TS for Hotel points and can not if you buy from the resale market.  This IMHO, makes buying a Marriott a much better deal than Starwood.



I think this is a very biased point of view. I believe you are really trying to say that resale purchasers should be educated prior to buying. An educated buyer wouldn't buy a non-mandatory Starwood property if s/he wanted to trade each year. The onus is on the buyer to know what they're getting, and not on Starwwood (or Marriott) to make developer and resale purchases 'equal'. 

This is the reason I bought a resale from Kierland. I'm sure I'll get there one day, but for now I'm going to Maui in a few months. And I didn't have to deal with II or pay lock-out fees, etc to do it. I think Marriott's are great (I have a trade to Marriott Timber Lodge 2-bed for a winter week in exchange of WMH summer 1-bed), and I'd consider buying one. 

And, if I really wanted more Options, I'd even consider buying another resale Platinum Kierland rather than the other properties. Seems to me that if you buy the right property you can get more from Starwood than a single property at Marriott.


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## grgs (Feb 14, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> (I have a trade to Marriott Timber Lodge 2-bed for a winter week in exchange of WMH summer 1-bed).



Wow--that's a great trade!  I hadn't planned on exchanging much through Interval, but with trades like that I might try it.  I'd be happy with trading a 1 bedroom Kierland Plat for a 1 bedroom Marriott Plat, but you did even better!

What week are you going to Timber Lodge?  I'm sort of surprised it made it out of the Marriott internal preference time frame.

Glorian


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## Bill4728 (Feb 14, 2006)

> I think this is a very biased point of view. I believe you are really trying to say that resale purchasers should be educated prior to buying. An educated buyer wouldn't buy a non-mandatory Starwood property if s/he wanted to trade each year. The onus is on the buyer to know what they're getting, and not on Starwwood (or Marriott) to make developer and resale purchases 'equal'.



In many ways you're right.  It just makes me crazy that Starwood has this 2 tier system of ownerships.  Why not have all starwood resort mandatory? Or go the other way and have no right to star-options for resale buyers?  It just that if you did buy from the developer, you bought a much more valuable product if you bought a mandatory resort vs non-mandatory when it comes to the resorts resale value.

It hard to believe that the newest starwood in cancun will not be mandatory.


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## grgs (Feb 14, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> It just makes me crazy that Starwood has this 2 tier system of ownerships.  Why not have all starwood resort mandatory? Or go the other way and have no right to star-options for resale buyers?



There's been some speculation that if it was up to Starwood no resales would be allowed to have StarOptions.  As I recollect someone (Seenett?) did some research and found that when StarOptions do come with a resale (mandatory results), it's a result of the local government requiring it.  In the case of the  two Scottsdale resorts where one is mandatory (Kierland) and one is not (Desert Oasis), the consensus was that Kierland had to be made mandatory since it was built by Starwood, while Desert Oasis did not since it was a Starwood acquisition from another company.  This reasoning also held true for the difference between the two Orlando resorts (Vistana Villages is mandatory, while Vistana is not).  It would be great if this could all be confirmed officially.

Personally, I'd rather live with the way it is, rather than have all resorts lose StarOptions upon resale.

Glorian


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## Ken555 (Feb 15, 2006)

grgs said:
			
		

> Wow--that's a great trade!  I hadn't planned on exchanging much through Interval, but with trades like that I might try it.  I'd be happy with trading a 1 bedroom Kierland Plat for a 1 bedroom Marriott Plat, but you did even better!
> 
> What week are you going to Timber Lodge?  I'm sort of surprised it made it out of the Marriott internal preference time frame.
> 
> Glorian



I exchanged a SMALL 1-bed SUMMER Westin Mission Hills week, deposited last year, for this year week 49 in December at Marriott Timber Lodge, 2-bed. 

When I looked a few weeks ago, there were many units available throughout the year, but most were just 1-bed's. Several 2-bed's at the time, and this one looked good to me. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far, but this trade wasn't difficult at all. 

Of course, I feel for those Marriott owners who paid $30k+ for week 49 (and $$$ M/F's) at Timber Lodge...

If I continue getting trades like this one, I'd seriously consider buying another WMH resale, or even a Desert Oasis 2-bed annual. I'd not be buying for Options at all, but rather just to trade at II.


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## Ken555 (Feb 15, 2006)

Bill4728 said:
			
		

> In many ways you're right.  It just makes me crazy that Starwood has this 2 tier system of ownerships.  Why not have all starwood resort mandatory? Or go the other way and have no right to star-options for resale buyers?  It just that if you did buy from the developer, you bought a much more valuable product if you bought a mandatory resort vs non-mandatory when it comes to the resorts resale value.



Why let it get to you? Do you work for Marriott?   

Be glad you know the difference, so that if you ever buy a Starwood property you'll know the whole story before buying. 

Also, I look at it this way: When I bought my WMH unit, I was amazed at how cheap it was...and I forced myself to look into *why* it was less expensive than Kierland - for instance - before purchase. After consideration, I bought it since I wanted this particular resort - knowing that I could get there easily, etc, and that I could trade it if I wanted.

When I bought Kierland I had a completely different goal in mind. I wanted to be able to travel to the other Starwood resorts and wanted the Options. And when I called SW to reserve Maui, I was offered multiple weeks and unit sizes at the time I wanted to travel and had no difficulty making the reservation (scheduled for May). 

I really don't see why you believe there should be an inherent benefit to buying from the developer rather than resale. From my perspective, a deed should be a deed regardless of where it was purchased, and all benefits assigned to the deed should be fully transferable.




> It hard to believe that the newest starwood in cancun will not be mandatory.



Not only that, but even if you buy direct you'll get less Options than from Kierland or other resorts. I still don't understand completely how Starwood determines the number of Options per resort. Cancun is supposed to be one of their best (when complete), yet the 2-bed only has 95,700 Options. When I travel, I only need a 1-bed unit (typically), and I'd rather use 51,700 Options from my Kierland unit to spend a week at Cancun in their 1-bed Premium (during high season)...and still have 96,300 left to use elsewhere. If Cancun has availability (and that's always a key question), then it's less expensive to buy a Kierland Platinum and use it to get to Cancun.


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## iluvwdw (Feb 16, 2006)

seenett said:
			
		

> No.  If you buy a resale non-mandatory resort, you are buying a *week* in a certain season ONLY - just like almost every other timeshare system.
> 
> The week will have no weekly StarOption value, and thus no daily StarOption value for incremental daily stays.
> 
> Even with StarOptions available, everytime you use reserve anything else *but* a full week at your home resort in your season, you are using options.  This is always done outside the Home Resort Preference Period - so there is no home resort preference for split weeks anyway.



When I owned at Vistana BEFORE it was SHERATON Vistana, I could split my week up into however many days I wanted.  I had to call 90 days or less to make my ressie,though.   Back then, there were NO points or anything, I just purchased WEEKS at Vistana.  Not sure if you would be able to do this at your home resort now that Starwood took over, but just know that it WAS possible at one point.  I did it a bunch of times.


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