# Hilton Club conversion rate 1/50 for HHoner points



## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

Does anyone know if the resale Hilton Club will carry the conversion of 1 to 50 to the resale buyer?   There are a few Hilton club, such as Hilton Club at 57th Street, Hilton residence Club at Washington DC, Hilton residence club at NYC, and Hilton Club at mid-town NYC (deeded one).


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## Cyberc (Sep 27, 2017)

Yes if you buy at one of those properties you will get the 50:1 but only for points from that particular club.


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## SmithOp (Sep 27, 2017)

and its still a bad beat even at 50:1 considering the maintenance fees at those properties...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

Thank you.  The Hilton Club has high maintenance fee because they have separate club due $273.  currently it is about $0.28 per point plus the club due.  But they do have daily breakfast and happy hours with beer and wine.  It take about 500- 800 for studio for one weekday night (Sunday to Thursday.)  It is $224 per night in peak season and $168 for July to mid September.  It is not bad to have a spacious studio with refrigerator, dining table with chairs...  My Hilton sales person trying to sell me one 5000 points.  But I spot one on eBay for 10,000 points and just bought it for the 1/3 of the price of 5000 points.  I was not sure if the 1 to 50 will be to the new buyer.  Thanks for the info.  In the mean time, I just asked my sales person for the same question about if one day i sell, would the new buyer get the benefit.  She said YES too.  I am happy.  I guess if you go to NYC often, then, it is worth it.


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## Cyberc (Sep 27, 2017)

It’s not worth converting unless you are at risk of loosing the points. 

Remember when you buy resale that Hilton has ROFR.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

At West 57th, we pay about $1,327/year, which is not bad considering Vistana and Marriott properties and Hilton Club NYC run in the $2,500 - $2,700 per year range. The $273 club fee can be waived to pay the $159 HGVC club fee instead.  So for $120 above club fee we are able to eliminate all reservation, change and trading fees and have a dedicated phone line to make reservations fee free. We have used this to book and rebook reservations and changed travel plans frequently to get great last minute trades into Oahu and other places when people cancel near the 30 day mark. Last year we added up the fees if we had to pay and it would have been more than $1000 in reservation/change fees so it has held great value for us.

If you want Thanksgiving or New Years in NYC, the only way to get these reservations is to be an owner. If you get this in a club trade, you have won the lottery.  As an owner, it is easy to gain access to reservations in the 9 month to 45 day window because you are only competing against other West 57 owners for reservations so if you want to go into the city for a show and stay for the weekend, you will likely get it as long as you are outside the 45 day club booking window.

In addition to lounge access, open season rates are only available to owners at these properties as well.  You can gain lounge access if you rent from an owner via a guest certificate.  Renting from Hilton or trading does not get owners lounge access.


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## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> At West 57th, we pay about $1,327/year, which is not bad considering Vistana and Marriott properties and Hilton Club NYC run in the $2,500 - $2,700 per year range. The $273 club fee can be waived to pay the $159 HGVC club fee instead.  So for $120 above club fee we are able to eliminate all reservation, change and trading fees and have a dedicated phone line to make reservations fee free. We have used this to book and rebook reservations and changed travel plans frequently to get great last minute trades into Oahu and other places when people cancel near the 30 day mark. Last year we added up the fees if we had to pay and it would have been more than $1000 in reservation/change fees so it has held great value for us.
> 
> If you want Thanksgiving or New Years in NYC, the only way to get these reservations is to be an owner. If you get this in a club trade, you have won the lottery.  As an owner, it is easy to gain access to reservations in the 9 month to 45 day window because you are only competing against other West 57 owners for reservations so if you want to go into the city for a show and stay for the weekend, you will likely get it as long as you are outside the 45 day club booking window.
> 
> In addition to lounge access, open season rates are only available to owners at these properties as well.  You can gain lounge access if you rent from an owner via a guest certificate.  Renting from Hilton or trading does not get you owners lounge access.



I agree with you that it is not bad paying $1327 a year.  What is the per point cost though?

We got 16,800 Hilton Residence club paying $2707 maintenance fee in 2018 (one bedroom platinum season pent house unit) per year.  It is about $0.16 per point and it is comparable to Vegas property.  No separate club fees.  If you can get 14,400 point (platinum season studio penthouse unit) the maintenance fee is $1758, 0.122 per point)  All the studio platinum season sold out very quickly and we can only get one bedroom platinum season. If you bought gold season studio premier unit, you have the same maintenance fee of $1758 and only 5100 points, the maintenance would be 0.345 per point.  Hilton club is just points for any season, they sell by 5000, 10,000, and 15,000.  maintenance fee is set by point 0.275.  a little high. But with daily breakfast and happy hours with snacks, it is not that bad to be at the Rockefeller center and radio city area.  We walk to those places and time square every evening after dinner for exercise. 

We have been staying in 57th street for the past year to reserve within 45 days. But the studio plus is very small comparing with Hilton Club.   The studio premier at 57th street is much better.  I used to own Hilton Club and get rid of it 2 years ago by selling back to Hilton.  Now I want to get it back.  You can not book into Hilton Club unless you are a owner or exchange thru RCI.  The Hilton Club studio are more spacious. We had more room when friends visiting us.  The residence club started with studio premier unit.  It is the size of the same studio premier for 57th street.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

ccwu said:


> I agree with you that it is not bad paying $1327 a year.  What is the per point cost though?
> 
> We got 16,800 Hilton Residence club paying $2707 maintenance fee in 2018 (one bedroom platinum season pent house unit) per year.  It is about $0.16 per point and it is comparable to Vegas property.  No separate club fees.  If you can get 14,400 point (platinum season studio penthouse unit) the maintenance fee is $1758, 0.122 per point)  All the studio platinum season sold out very quickly and we can only get one bedroom platinum season. If you bought gold season studio premier unit, you have the same maintenance fee of $1758 and only 5100 points, the maintenance would be 0.345 per point.  Hilton club is just points for any season, they sell by 5000, 10,000, and 15,000.  maintenance fee is set by point 0.275.  a little high. But with daily breakfast and happy hours with snacks, it is not that bad to be at the Rockefeller center and radio city area.  We walk to those places and time square every evening after dinner for exercise.
> 
> We have been staying in 57th street for the past year to reserve within 45 days. But the studio plus is very small comparing with Hilton Club.   The studio premier at 57th street is much better.  I used to own Hilton Club and get rid of it 2 years ago by selling back to Hilton.  Now I want to get it back.  You can not book into Hilton Club unless you are a owner or exchange thru RCI.  The Hilton Club studio are more spacious. We had more room when friends visiting us.  The residence club started with studio premier unit.  It is the size of the same studio premier for 57th street.



That's a good rate per point if you consistently use NYC. We have a 5250 platinum unit which yields .25/point but we offset that with a Vegas trader at .125/ point which yields us 12,250 points/year for a total HGVC maint fee of $2207 at an average of $.18/point plus the privileges that NYC brings such as open season rates, lounge. This is probably the most cost effective way to gain NYC reservations if you don't want the hassle and risk of club trading or renting. Plus exchanging via RCI and renting requires a week, and we like to stay a few days at a time.

The advantage of this hybrid approach is that we don't consistently use NYC but like to trade for other high end such as Hawaii. At only $1327 we get the benefits of NYC AND this leaves room in our budget to add a Hawaii Oceanfront maintenance fee at either Marriott or Westin to our portfolio.

re: Size of room at West 57. We use our points for the 1 Bedroom (1BD) units to get more space - same number of points as the studio but sleeps more people.  This option is typically not available to exchangers because the 1 bedroom units get reserved first by owners.  Most people are not aware of this option.


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## hurnik (Sep 27, 2017)

ccwu said:


> I agree with you that it is not bad paying $1327 a year.  What is the per point cost though?
> 
> We got 16,800 Hilton Residence club paying $2707 maintenance fee in 2018 (one bedroom platinum season pent house unit) per year.  It is about $0.16 per point and it is comparable to Vegas property.  No separate club fees.  If you can get 14,400 point (platinum season studio penthouse unit) the maintenance fee is $1758, 0.122 per point)  All the studio platinum season sold out very quickly and we can only get one bedroom platinum season. If you bought gold season studio premier unit, you have the same maintenance fee of $1758 and only 5100 points, the maintenance would be 0.345 per point.  Hilton club is just points for any season, they sell by 5000, 10,000, and 15,000.  maintenance fee is set by point 0.275.  a little high. But with daily breakfast and happy hours with snacks, it is not that bad to be at the Rockefeller center and radio city area.  We walk to those places and time square every evening after dinner for exercise.
> 
> We have been staying in 57th street for the past year to reserve within 45 days. But the studio plus is very small comparing with Hilton Club.   The studio premier at 57th street is much better.  I used to own Hilton Club and get rid of it 2 years ago by selling back to Hilton.  Now I want to get it back.  You can not book into Hilton Club unless you are a owner or exchange thru RCI.  The Hilton Club studio are more spacious. We had more room when friends visiting us.  The residence club started with studio premier unit.  It is the size of the same studio premier for 57th street.



While I agree that the price/point for MF is pretty good: What was the cost to purchase for the Hilton Residence Club?  Are there resales?

So there's W57th, the Hilton Club (different than HGVC I believe?  Or not.  I mean I know it's listed on the HGVC website, but dunno) and the Hilton Residence Club (isn't that what Washington DC is as well)?

But I seem to recall that W57th is "city points" or something where the points are a little different for things like Hhonors conversion (but that may be the only diff. other than the points packages?)


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

hurnik said:


> While I agree that the price/point for MF is pretty good: What was the cost to purchase for the Hilton Residence Club?  Are there resales?
> 
> So there's W57th, the Hilton Club (different than HGVC I believe?  Or not.  I mean I know it's listed on the HGVC website, but dunno) and the Hilton Residence Club (isn't that what Washington DC is as well)?
> 
> But I seem to recall that W57th is "city points" or something where the points are a little different for things like Hhonors conversion (but that may be the only diff. other than the points packages?)



W57th has 50:1 conversion to HHonors. Other perks are mentioned above.

Residence Club is on top of Hilton Midtown Manhattan hotel.  It is too new for resales.

I heard that the Residences are temporarily pushing the down resale prices of W57th because of supply/demand.  When Grand Islander hit the market it depressed Lagoon Tower prices.  Now Lagoon prices have recovered.  Expect the same for W57.

With lower maintenance fees, lower point requirements and a top-notch NYC location, W57 is akin to the "Lagoon Tower" of HGVC NYC properties.


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## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

hurnik said:


> While I agree that the price/point for MF is pretty good: What was the cost to purchase for the Hilton Residence Club?  Are there resales?
> 
> So there's W57th, the Hilton Club (different than HGVC I believe?  Or not.  I mean I know it's listed on the HGVC website, but dunno) and the Hilton Residence Club (isn't that what Washington DC is as well)?
> 
> But I seem to recall that W57th is "city points" or something where the points are a little different for things like Hhonors conversion (but that may be the only diff. other than the points packages?)


The purchase price is higher for platinum season for Hilton Residence Club at NYC.  It is similar to the one in Washington DC Hilton Residence Club.  The member in Residence club can book any other residence club in the window of 60 days with access to club lounge for breakfast and happy hours.  the non residence club member can book 45 days window and with no lounge access.  There is no resale for it yet since it is not open yet. The first use year is projected to be 2018.  We bought directly from Hilton.  The Hilton Club that we got from eBay is a resale.  We can book our home resort home week 12 months in advance at NYC Hilton residence club, Club reservation 9 month in advance.  HGVC is going to develop more residence club in the cities, Chicago, San Francisco and Europe that city has millions of population and more demand for business travelers.  They expected to sell out the NYC Hilton residence club before the end of the year.  The good thing of residence club is that you could use other HGVC points to reserve.  Once you are a member, they do not differentiate where the points come from.  So theoretically, you can get a very small package and use other point to reserve more than what you own.  Hilton Club can use only separate Hilton club points to reserve.  You used up your points then no more.  Also for the 50-1 conversion is for most is all or nothing.  If I want to convert my residence club, 16,800 points, I have to convert the whole deeded week.  I can not convert partial.  With Hilton Club, you can convert any portion.  I did not know that when I purchased the NYC residence club.  We thought that we could convert partial, say 8000 points. We were disappointed at that.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

ccwu said:


> The good thing of residence club is that you could use other HGVC points to reserve.  Once you are a member, they do not differentiate where the points come from.  So theoretically, you can get a very small package and use other point to reserve more than what you own.



Interesting idea. I have never tried this but it sounds like my hybrid portfolio of smaller W57 footprint/maintenance fee combined with Vegas 7k trader means that I can use my Vegas points for NYC Resort Booking Window (9 months to 45 day) reservations?  I honestly don't know how the system could tell the difference.  That's more NYC than I could use but if I were to go to NYC more often, or need another room for guests or for a longer stay, that would be an interesting option.


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## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> W57th has 50:1 conversion to HHonors. Other perks are mentioned above.
> 
> Residence Club is on top of Hilton Midtown Manhattan hotel.  It is too new for resales.
> 
> I heard that the Residences are temporarily pushing the down prices of W57th because of supply/demand.  When Grand Islander hit the market it depressed Lagoon Tower prices.  Now Lagoon prices have recovered.  Expect the same for W57 i.e. it would appear that now is a good time to pick up W57 resale if NYC is of interest. With lower maintenance fees and point requirements, W57 is akin to the "Lagoon Tower" of HGVC NYC properties.



We have a mix too.


CalGalTraveler said:


> That's a good rate per point if you consistently use NYC. We have a 5250 platinum unit which yields .25/point but we offset that with a Vegas trader at .125/ point which yields us 12,250 points/year for a total HGVC maint fee of $2207 at an average of $.18/point plus the privileges that NYC brings such as open season rates, lounge. This is probably the most cost effective way to gain NYC reservations if you don't want the hassle and risk of club trading or renting. Plus exchanging via RCI and renting requires a week, and we like to stay a few days at a time.
> 
> The advantage of this hybrid approach is that we don't consistently use NYC but like to trade for other high end such as Hawaii. At only $1327 we get the benefits of NYC AND this leaves room in our budget to add a Hawaii Oceanfront maintenance fee at either Marriott or Westin to our portfolio.
> 
> re: Size of room at West 57. We use our points for the 1 Bedroom (1BD) units to get more space - same number of points as the studio but sleeps more people.  This option is typically not available to exchangers because the 1 bedroom units get reserved first by owners.  Most people are not aware of this option.


yes, we have a mix too.  Average is 0.18 per point (we have Vegas, Kingsland and Lagoon tower).  We could not book into the one bedroom in 57th street.  Very few studio premier unit available.  We do not have lounge access at 57th street even we are Hilton diamond member.  We could stay in Hilton midtown and access the executive lounge.  Once the Hilton Residence club open or our Hilton Club NY go thru, we will never return to 57th street again.  I have to say the location is almost as good as midtown Hilton. The 57th street studio plus unit is just like a hotel room.  We live in 80 miles north of Manhattan and do go to the city often by train for games and show or shopping and New Year eves.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

ccwu said:


> We could not book into the one bedroom in 57th street.  Very few studio premier unit available.



I believe your difficulties are because you were restricted to book during the 45 day club window (which is extremely competitive) and are viewing W57 through that lens.

I just went into the Resort Booking window.  Here's the availability I see as an W57th owner:

*  New Years eve; 1 Bdrm Plus and Studios for 2790 and 1575 points each (only 3 months away); Ive been able to book 1 bedrooms only 5 months out from New Years.
*  Entire Thanksgiving week studio premier and plus units (only 2 months away)
*  Wide open availability in 2018 with the exception of a few unit sizes on busy weekends; plenty of studio premiers and one bedroom availability.

I expect you will see similar availability once your NY properties close because you are not competing against the entire HGVC system until 45 days prior.  It makes sense for your situation to get better availability.

re: Location. Both properties have pluses and minuses but both are Gold-Plated NYC locations on scarce land.  W57 is closer to Central Park and Carnegie Hall, across the street from the most expensive penthouses in the USA, and from the Park Hyatt, which is their flagship NYC location.  Some people like the busy hotel atmosphere at Residences/NY Club, others despise it and prefer the quieter W57.  First world problems.


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## JohnPaul (Sep 27, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Interesting idea. I have never tried this but it sounds like my hybrid portfolio of smaller W57 footprint/maintenance fee combined with Vegas 7k trader means that I can use my Vegas points for NYC Resort Booking Window (9 months to 45 day) reservations?  I honestly don't know how the system could tell the difference.  That's more NYC than I could use but if I were to go to NYC more often, or need another room for guests or for a longer stay, that would be an interesting option.




If you are able to do this, it is a loophole.  You aren't supposed to be able to book W 57th St more than 45 days out with anything but W 57th St points.


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## JohnPaul (Sep 27, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> If you want Thanksgiving or New Years in NYC, the only way to get these reservations is to be an owner. If you get this in a club trade, you have won the lottery.  As an owner, it is easy to gain access to reservations in the 9 month to 45 day window because you are only competing against other West 57 owners for reservations so if you want to go into the city for a show and stay for the weekend, you will likely get it as long as you are outside the 45 day club booking window.



You are correct that Thanksgiving and New Years are event weeks that go to owners of those weeks.  However, as a W 57th owner I have been successful in booking Thanksgiving without owning that week.  My assumption is that an event week owner gave it up.

However, getting it in the 45 day club booking is pretty unlikely.


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## JohnPaul (Sep 27, 2017)

ccwu said:


> My Hilton sales person trying to sell me one 5000 points.  But I spot one on eBay for 10,000 points and just bought it for the 1/3 of the price of 5000 points.  I was not sure if the 1 to 50 will be to the new buyer.  Thanks for the info.  In the mean time, I just asked my sales person for the same question about if one day i sell, would the new buyer get the benefit.  She said YES too.  I am happy.  I guess if you go to NYC often, then, it is worth it.



This is Hilton Club NY correct?  Is it the RTU with end date in 2032 or the newer perpetual?

Has it passed ROFR yet?

Thanks.


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## ccwu (Sep 27, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> This is Hilton Club NY correct?  Is it the RTU with end date in 2032 or the newer perpetual?
> 
> Has it passed ROFR yet?
> 
> Thanks.



It is deeded points.  I asked a copy of the deed before I bid.  We used to own 11,000 points of the RTU that ends in 2032.  Hilton offered to buy it back in 2013 with the original recorded selling price and we sold it back to Hilton.  You do not see the Hilton club on eBay anymore.  Hilton later offer $4 per point to buy it back from other Hilton Club owners who hold on and refuse to sell back per my sales person.  The new Hilton Club sell by points (no platinum, gold... season, or size).  The new deeded points is 5,000 increment.

I will let you know when I pass the ROFR.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 27, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> If you are able to do this, it is a loophole.



Every timeshare system contains arbitrage opportunities. Frankly on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is horrible for HGVC and 10 is great.  This is a 12+ and awesome for HGVC.  Why?  Because it promotes the sale and encourages actual ownership of premiere properties for HGVC by providing a real and differentiated benefit to people who pay a premium to purchase ownership in NY, DC, Grand Islander etc.

This encourages those who cannot afford to purchase a larger unit or may not need to use the expensive property all of the time, to consider buying a small footprint to get a reservation foothold instead of buying all traders.  All of the timeshare systems use owner reservation priority to ensure the value of their premiere properties.  Just look at the resale value of Marriott Maui Ocean club fixed week Tower oceanfront units.  A true Hail Mary trade; you have to own or rent from an owner to stay there.

Perhaps far more widespread arbitrage issues for HGVC are the traders who pay next to nothing on resales but gain 7000+ points to trade into expensive properties.  HGVC gains little from these buyers and it hurts the value of their developer sales and reputation when buyers find out this arbitrage exists.  For someone who paid full boat for 3780 or 5250 points in an expensive NY or Oahu property this arbitrage does not seem fair unless there are significant benefits to owning such as reservation priority.

Unlike the Hail Mary traders who paid next to nothing to play, most of the owners In NYC, Grand Islander etc. paid between $32 to $100k+ to get in the HGVC game.  Don't you think it is prudent business policy for HGVC to reward owners who paid more into the HGVC system to gain a benefit over owners who paid almost nothing?


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## JohnPaul (Sep 28, 2017)

Either I'm not understanding your comment or you did not understand mine.  

As you point out, people pay a premium for these properties and part of the premium is because you can't get the same benefits without paying the premium.

What I understood the poster to be saying was this:  They can buy a minimal W 57th St ownership (3750 points) and buy 7000 Las Vegas points resale and use all 10,750 points at W 57th St.

As an owner at W 57th St it was my understanding that only W 57th St points could be used there (except within 45 days of arrival).  

Your post seems to disagree with my comment but agree that the above scenario is bad.  Please clarify as I'm obviously not understanding.

Also, if you have direct knowledge of whether the above scenario is indeed possible please advise.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 28, 2017)

@JohnPaul Why are you making this assumption? It sounds like it was part of the sales pitch for the Residences as the OP suggests, probably also works for DC, Grand Islander and Houkulani where resort booking periods exist. Differentiating points would create a nightmare for the system. As discussed, W57, Grand Islander and Residence owners paid a premium at developer and resale much higher than the rest of the system - so they are not "getting away" with anything.  Plus I don't think it would be used that much.  Although I like the idea to use in a pinch, personally I prefer to use my Vegas points elsewhere.

The travel industry is unfair, I am an elite with several airlines and hotel systems without flying by simply having a credit card. Arbitrage. How is this any different?  A hybrid portfolio (NYC/Vegas/Hawaii) gives me the best of both worlds (owning/trading) and justifies keeping my small point NYC unit to have a reservation foothold when I do visit. I don't visit NYC consistently enough to justify purchasing a larger package.

HGVC needs to create incentives to own at these properties especially for the smaller point units. Reservation priority is one way to accomplish this. Most NYC owners don't use their home week, so with my W57 points package alone I can borrow and get more than I own with a 1 bedroom or even a Penthouse during the Resort booking (9 mo to 45 day) window; where else in the HGVC system can I spend an entire week in a place like NYC for only 3750 points?  Without a resort reservation window, they are incenting owners to avoid buying premiere properties and paying higher HOA fees in favor or buying all Vegas and Bay Club for $1 a point; better to support hybrid ownership than not own at all.


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## hurnik (Sep 28, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @JohnPaul Why are you making this assumption? It sounds like it was part of the sales pitch for the Residences as the OP suggests, probably also works for DC, Grand Islander and Houkulani where resort booking periods exist. Differentiating points would create a nightmare for the system. As discussed, W57, Grand Islander and Residence owners paid a premium at developer and resale much higher than the rest of the system - so they are not "getting away" with anything.  Plus I don't think it would be used that much.  Although I like the idea to use in a pinch, personally I prefer to use my Vegas points elsewhere.
> 
> The travel industry is unfair, I am an elite with several airlines and hotel systems without flying by simply having a credit card. Arbitrage. How is this any different?  A hybrid portfolio (NYC/Vegas/Hawaii) gives me the best of both worlds (owning/trading) and justifies keeping my small point NYC unit to have a reservation foothold when I do visit. I don't visit NYC consistently enough to justify purchasing a larger package.
> 
> HGVC needs to create incentives to own at these properties especially for the smaller point units. Reservation priority is one way to accomplish this. Most NYC owners don't use their home week, so with my W57 points package alone I can borrow and get more than I own with a 1 bedroom or even a Penthouse during the Resort booking (9 mo to 45 day) window; where else in the HGVC system can I spend an entire week in a place like NYC for only 3750 points?  Without a resort reservation window, they are incenting owners to avoid buying premiere properties and paying higher HOA fees in favor or buying all Vegas and Bay Club for $1 a point; better to support hybrid ownership than not own at all.



Well assuming it was a sales pitch, I wouldn't put any weight on it (when a salesperson's mouth is moving ... LOL)
As for differentiating points, the system already does that, I'm pretty sure.

If you had 5750 W57 points you can get 50:1 Hhonors conversion
If you also have a 7k Vegas, I doubt Hilton is also going to give a 50:1 conversion rate.

I thought (but I could be wrong) that the W57 points were different and that there was maybe a Club Traveler magazine thingy about its benefits vs.  others and that they actually covered the Hhonors conversion scenario I mentioned above.

But again, I could be wrong.

Now, it would be "great" if Hilton's system just kinda opened the gate (although don't those 2 Hawaii resorts have diff. booking windows than W57th as well)?  Although, not sure if it's worth the premium for say, W57th (that's the point I was trying to get at previously about how much did it cost, since there's basically no resales.  Yeah, $0.16/point MF but I'm pretty sure it's more than the 4.5k I spent on my 7k Flamingo with around the same point cost for MF).  Now, obviously if you stay in NYC a lot.  I live in Albany, NY and it's very easy to do the 45-day booking window, the issue is that sometimes it's considerably cheaper to stay in a Hilton Hotel with free real breakfast for short trips.  I think last year I'd looked and all they had was Studio Pluses and for 2 nights plus the $85 cleaning fee and reservation fee it was like almost 30% cheaper to book the Hilton Garden Inn with free breakfast.  But then again I'm not an owner there.

Now the Residence Club may be something, especially if Hilton is doing that for their new places like DC, etc.

But I digest.

haha


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 28, 2017)

@hurnik  You are right.  I believe 50:1 is limited by the system.  All points must be converted at once at the beginning of the year because the conversion is part of the home resort process.
(FWIW...We were discussing using club points from other properties to book stays during the Resort booking window which would apply to any of the properties with different booking windows including Hawaii .)

re: economics. No doubt a Flamingo is cheaper. It is not surprising that the economics for your scenario are not great because this is the proverbial, "you get what you paid for."  Traders are given the left over units after owners take the desirable one bedrooms, premiers and penthouses during the priority booking window. The 45 day club booking window is akin to "RCI Last Call" units.  This is steerage class.  Some people are perfectly happy in steerage because they are saving money - and that's okay.

However, we need to compare apples to apples when it comes the the units that most owners actually use. The economics and environment comparing a one bedroom, premier or penthouse with views of the city/Central Park, lounge access and ease of reservations are a superior experience and should not be compared with the Hilton Garden Inn.  It's like trying to describe what first class lie-flats are like while sitting in an economy class seat; same plane but vastly different experiences.

P.S. I am curious as well as to the cost of the Residences.  Perhaps the OP could shed light on this?


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## ccwu (Sep 28, 2017)

I know this is long, but I will spend time to write it about the NYC residence club.

Before we bought the 16,800 NYC Hilton Residence club, we did have some concern for such a big package.  The sales person told us that we could by the smallest one of 5100 point gold season studio premier (44th floor)  The maintenance fee would be about $1765 (0.34 per point).  He said that once we are owner, we could use our regular HGVC points to make reservation and we will be able to get penthouse one bedroom (45, 46 floor.)  We thought about it, and we decided to get the platinum season pent house (largest package  available) for the lower maintenance fee for 0.16 per point available at the time (the platinum season studio penthouse has lowest per point cost. but it sold out)  We got a discount at $7.85 per point, from the market rate-$9 per point due to we were previous owner of Hilton Club and we are elite premier.  He said, we can convert our point to HHoner points with the package and use the HGVC points to visit our NYC Hilton residence club.  He said the system could not differentiate the points for HGVC or Hilton residence club.

When we went back to see the actual model last week trying to view what we actually paid for in June, the sales person used the opportunity when showing us the model to sell us the Hilton Club.  We told him that we just bought the NYC Hilton residence Club and did not have fund to buy any more at this point. He said if we get Hilton Club, it would be a separate club with separate club due ($273 Hilton club due), we would only be able to use Hilton club points to reserve Hilton club and the system could differentiate Hilton club points from HGVC points since it is separate club.  but we could use the Hilton Club point to reserve any HGVC resort including the residence club.  We would always get availability if we wanted to visit NYC due to the competition of reservation was only with other Hilton Club owners.  After viewing both NYC Hilton residence club model and NYC Hilton Club updated unit, I checked on eBay and found a Hilton Club on sale with less than half hour to the closing bid.  We rushed to get information of the deed, and reserved bid amount.  We bid above the reserve amount and won.  We do not feel guilty to buy cheap with eBay after spending hundreds of thousand on Hilton.

I do not know about 57th street Hilton club.  Logically if paying one club due as NYC Hilton residence club, it may work the same.  The sales person highly recommended us to convert to HHoner points.  He said with average 30,000 point per night in Hilton hotel, our 16,800 point would convert to 840,000 HHoner points, that would be 28 night (or 35 night with the 5th night free) in Hilton Hotel.  It would be $96 or $77 per night (use maintenance fee of 2707/ 35 or 2707/28).  The sales person said that was a big deal.

The residence club is the new thing that HGVC is promoting.  We can have priority reservation in any of the new residence club that they shall develop and using the owners' lounge (residence club owners only).  It is not like 57th street that only 57th street owners can use at 57th street lounge, or only Hilton Club owners can use Hilton club owners lounge.  The Hilton Residents owner can use any Hilton residents owners lounge when staying in a residence club.  HGVC member, 57th street and midtown Hilton Club owners will not be able to use the residence club owner’s lounge to my knowledge (what the sales person told me.)  As we only have 45 days window to reserve 57th street, we will have 60 days window to reserve any Hilton Residence Club and 9 month to reserve NYC Hilton residence Club with club reservation. He said it could be difficult for non-Residence Club to reserve the NYC Residence Club because it has fewer units than 57th street (57th street has 28 floors, 7 units each floor other than the top floors) while NYC Hilton Residence Club only has 3 floors (44, 45 and 46) and max 29 unit per floor (one floor will accommodate owners’ lounge and gym)  It will have less than half the units of 57th street.  If it is hard to reserve 57th street, it would be harder to reserve NYC Hilton residence club.

The point chart for NYC Residence Club shows for studio premier to studio penthouse takes 510 to 1440 for during Monday-Thursday.  1020-2880 for weekend.  The one bedroom premier-1 bedroom penthouse 870-1680 per night weekday and 1740-3360 per night weekend. (I don't know how to upload the point chart pdf file.)  

The difference of the penthouse (45, and 46 floor) vs non pent house (44th floor) really is just the ceiling to floor glass window.  the view is almost the same on the top of Hilton midtown.  The studio premier is the same size as 57th street studio premier. There is no studio or studio plus unit.


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## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2017)

Ok, so this conversation has me completely confused about the NY properties and Hilton/Residence clubs.  

I'm glad I live on the west coast and prefer Hawaii.  I've only been to W57th once using my HGVC points through RCI.  I really don't need to go ever again.


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## Cyberc (Sep 29, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> Ok, so this conversation has me completely confused about the NY properties and Hilton/Residence clubs.
> 
> I'm glad I live on the west coast and prefer Hawaii.  I've only been to W57th once using my HGVC points through RCI.  I really don't need to go ever again.



We have stayed a few times at W57 and at the Hilton club, we do think both places are nice, but we can't justify the buy-in price. We went to an owners update last year and they offered us the Residence club in NYC. We could get 7.200 points annually for approx $27k if we traded our resale vegas property. 

We have stayed at both places for 2.400 hgvc points for a week through RCI (to us thats approx $250 in MF + $219 in exchange fees)and even without the lounge access you can buy a lot of food and beer/wine for the amount saved in MF but also in the buyin price.

Everyone to his own, but I would enjoy to own in NYC but with the current prices I just can't justify it - if/when prices come down I might coinsider it again. 

After reading that you are able to purchase a smaller package at either W57 or the residence club and then use all of your points 9months out it definitely has my attention. 

So if Hilton would be so kind to sell me just 1 point at either place i'll dont mind over paying comparing to what others have paid for a full package. 100$ should cover it


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## brp (Sep 29, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> Ok, so this conversation has me completely confused about the NY properties and Hilton/Residence clubs.



I don't know the nuances of Hilton Club New York versus Residences, but I do know that W 57th (where we own) is a different beastie from either of these with its own rules. We used to own at HCNY, but that was before Residences came to be, and this was, again a different beastie.

My understanding is that W 57th <> HCNY <> Residences <> HGVC.

Now, some of these allow you into others of these with reduced windows, and some don't. There are also rules about lounge access depending upon how one gets into these places as a non-owner.

Cheers.


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## brp (Sep 29, 2017)

Cyberc said:


> Everyone to his own, but I would enjoy to own in NYC but with the current prices I just can't justify it - if/when prices come down I might coinsider it again.



I don't expect that they will. I don't know how current prices compare to the original, direct offering prices at release (although the salesweaels would have us believe that these have only gone up in price), but they've been pretty stable for a while now. We did buy, but expect to be able to sell at, or near, what we paid whenever we do decide to sell. But, yes, it is a sizeable initial outlay.

Cheers.


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## brp (Sep 29, 2017)

Cyberc said:


> Everyone to his own, but I would enjoy to own in NYC but with the current prices I just can't justify it - if/when prices come down I might coinsider it again.



I don't expect that they will. I don't know how current prices compare to the original, direct offering prices at release (although the salesweaels would have us believe that these have only gone up in price), but they've been pretty stable for a while now. We did buy, but expect to be able to sell at, or near, what we paid whenever we do decide to sell. But, yes, it is a sizeable initial outlay.

Cheers.


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## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2017)

Cyberc said:


> After reading that you are able to purchase a smaller package at either W57 or the residence club and then use all of your points 9months out it definitely has my attention.
> 
> So if Hilton would be so kind to sell me just 1 point at either place i'll dont mind over paying comparing to what others have paid for a full package. 100$ should cover it



IF this is true then everyone would be doing it and there just aren't enough weeks in the system to support it.  All the owners trading out for 50:1 HHonors points are giving their usage to Hilton to sell for cash, so that is even less inventory for HGVC point owners.  Frankly, I don't believe it, its like a ponzi scheme bound to crash.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2017)

As stated previously, the 50:1 is fixed to the unit because it is part of the home week process.  This is a hard cost to HGVC because it is arms length with Hilton.

Unless I am missing something here. I am not sure why you would consider hybrid points a Ponzi scheme. HGVC points still need to be used to reserve the unit; it's simply shifting HGVC inventory points around the board and creates inventory in Vegas or Kingsland etc. because of the trade.  It does not incur additional cost for HGVC.

How is this any different than people arbitraging RCI to trade back into HGVC to stretch your points?

or trading Vegas to use Hawaii?

Most people just buy NYC and newer Oahu units and don't care about the cost.  Consider that despite Tug being around for 20 years, people still buy from the developer.


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## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> As stated previously, the 50:1 is fixed to the unit because it is part of the home week process.  This is a hard cost to HGVC because it is arms length with Hilton.
> 
> Unless I am missing something here. I am not sure why you would consider hybrid points a Ponzi scheme. HGVC points still need to be used to reserve the unit; it's simply shifting HGVC inventory points around the board and creates inventory in Vegas because of the trade.  It does not create additional cost for HGVC.
> 
> ...



I understand the 50:1 conversion, it benefits Hilton because they can rent the week you convert for more money in NYC.

The ponzi scheme is selling a small contract and allowing you to book NYC with all your HGVC points wherever they are based.  NYC is a finite supply, its not likely to expand like Vegas or Waikoloa so there isn't a lot of slack to allow unlimited booking.  Look how difficult it is to book Lagoon tower at HHV.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> I understand the 50:1 conversion, it benefits Hilton because they can rent the week you convert for more money in NYC.
> 
> The ponzi scheme is selling a small contract and allowing you to book NYC with all your HGVC points wherever they are based.  NYC is a finite supply, its not likely to expand like Vegas or Waikoloa so there isn't a lot of slack to allow unlimited booking.  Look how difficult it is to book Lagoon tower at HHV.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



It's not a free lunch. You still have to own there and pay a premium over the rest of the system for the right to do it. Many people are unwilling to buy in at that cost and there are a finite set of units to buy.

If I could buy a small contract at Grand Islander and use my other points to book during the reservation period, I would consider buying there. HGVC wins because they sell a low end unit that would be difficult to sell. Otherwise, I will continue to arbitrage my Vegas into the other Oahu properties - and they sell nothing.

It's a win for HGVC because they sell the building out faster and can move onto their next project.  As long as the maintenance money is being paid, they should not care.  In fact this would probably reduce the default rate on lower end units because people would be more likely to keep them which improves the stability of the HOA and stabilizes resale values.  This would also encourage small ownership as a portfolio into the Residences too.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2017)

One other reason this is not a ponzi scheme is that owners still have all rights to book their home week from 12 months to 9 months. Hybrid applies to the Resort Reservation Window (9 months to 45 days) which is similar to club reservations for but for owners at the property. People arbitrage Vegas for Hawaii during club windows all the time and compete with existing Lagoon Tower owners for reservations. Lagoon Tower owners can extend their stay during club windows using points from Vegas properties they own. So what's the difference if this is a club window just for owners?  Owners can book their home week ahead of everyone else to reserve their unit if desired.


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## hurnik (Sep 29, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> One other reason this is not a ponzi scheme is that owners still have all rights to book their home week from 12 months to 9 months. Hybrid applies to the Resort Reservation Window (9 months to 45 days) which is similar to club reservations for but for owners at the property. People arbitrage Vegas for Hawaii during club windows all the time and compete with existing Lagoon Tower owners for reservations. Lagoon Tower owners can extend their stay during club windows using points from Vegas properties they own. So what's the difference if this is a club window just for owners?  Owners can book their home week ahead of everyone else to reserve their unit if desired.



Hmmm, the club rules seem to indicate otherwise, unless I'm misreading:



> Home Resort Priority
> reservations are made at the resort at which a Member has an ownership interest for any number of nights in any unit type available (subject
> to Member ClubPoint availability – Home Resort Priority reservations may only be made using Club Points).
> 
> ...



Am I reading this wrong?  BTW, this is on page one of the Club Rules PDF


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2017)

Had not seen this before. FWIW...if this is limited, HGVC hurts themselves for the reasons stated above because it disincents buying premium properties from them. But as we know, HGVC is a profit making entity and can change rules like this at any time. I also still do not know if the reservation system has the sophistication to differentiate pulling an additional point from current year Vegas, other HGVC property, or borrowing from NYC next year.  How does it know if I want to avoid pulling my current NYC points to trade into Hawaii this year because I want to use my NY points next year, versus using Vegas or other property?  The system has issues with basics such as changing reservations. Tracking this would make my head explode.

Lastly, "Clubpoints associated with the specific ownership interest" is vague and can be construed several ways.


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## ccwu (Sep 30, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Had not seen this before. FWIW...if this is limited, HGVC hurts themselves for the reasons stated above because it disincents buying newer properties from them. But as we know, HGVC is a profit making entity and can change rules like this at any time. I also still do not know if the reservation system has the sophistication to differentiate pulling an additional point from current year Vegas, other HGVC property, or borrowing from NYC next year.  How does it know if I want to avoid pulling my current NYC points to trade into Hawaii versus using Vegas or other property?  The system has issues with basics such as changing reservations. Tracking this would make my head explode.
> 
> Lastly, "Clubpoints associated with the specific ownership interest" is vague and can be construed several ways.



The system is using the oldest points first.  If you cancel, it will return the point that was used in the specific cancelled reservation.   You have choice only if you have bonus points.  It will ask you if you want to club points or bonus point before the confirming the reservation. I have many properties.  It never differentiate the points I use is from which property.  It just identify it by year.  I had some saved  2017 points that can not be save any more.  But I used up all 2018 and half of 2019.  I call the rep to find out why I have 2017 points that I can not save any more.  I was told those were saved from 2016 and I just cancelled.  I ask why the system did not use them first, I was told that the weeks I used in the past reservations (before I called them last week), has some 2018 and 2019 points. They could switch the points for us if the reservation with future points were still open.  Now I had to make more reservations to use the saved 2016 points, or deposit in RCI or donate it. 

I do learn to reserve as many as possible and try to use next year's points and not to have saved points.  I am using a spreadsheet tracking the reservation with the point year now.  we will make sure the older points being used first.  If I cancel a reservation, I will check the year the points return.  If it is older points, I will switch with the open reservation that has the newer points.  we have deeds of almost equal amount from Hawaii, NYC, and Vegas. We actually used all our 2018 NYC residence club booked Hawaii next year to big island and HHV since residence is not opened yet while the points are there for 2018.  So we do not have the 16800 to convert to HHoner points as the sales person strongly recommended.  We plan to spends a few weeks in Hawaii (we also reserved for friends to travel with us) and a few weeks in Utah and Breckenridge skiing. We could not reserve NYC Hilton residence club since it it not open for reservation yet.  We may spend a few days there when it opens (will borrow 2019 points.)  I guess other new owner of NYC Hilton Residence Club would be like us having the points on book and just can not wait to use it.


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## hurnik (Sep 30, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Had not seen this before. FWIW...if this is limited, HGVC hurts themselves for the reasons stated above because it disincents buying newer properties from them. But as we know, HGVC is a profit making entity and can change rules like this at any time. I also still do not know if the reservation system has the sophistication to differentiate pulling an additional point from current year Vegas, other HGVC property, or borrowing from NYC next year.  How does it know if I want to avoid pulling my current NYC points to trade into Hawaii this year because I want to use my NY points next year, versus using Vegas or other property?  The system has issues with basics such as changing reservations. Tracking this would make my head explode.
> 
> Lastly, "Clubpoints associated with the specific ownership interest" is vague and can be construed several ways.



I agree that the quote you quoted is vague, but did you see the other part I  highlighted and underlined?  That is quite specific and not vague in any way.

Actually this doesn't disincentivize at all, but actually makes it more valuable.  It basically means if you buy at one of the residence clubs, you get priority with those points vs. someone like me who buys in Vegas.  Since the residence club points can be used elsewhere, there's no disadvantage at all (other than the atrociously high cost, IMO--ccwu spent $131,800 for their 16,800 points.  I could get close to that in Vegas for about $15k or less but of course cant' book W57 or the Residence clubs until a very short window either).

@ccwu :

Are you saying that you have actually booked using NON Residence points a "club" residence with Home Priority online?
I know you said what the sales person said, but to be quite frank, they lie all the time.  I was told that I could use bonus points a certain way when I first bought and it was completely untrue.  When I upgraded, I was told my MF would go down, and that was an outright lie as well.  Although the only way to know for sure would be for you to book 2 years worth of Residence Club (so 16,800 points x 2 since you can borrow from next year--assuming you had no saved points) at the "long" window and then try to use your non-Club points to book at say, 9 months out.  Although I think what may be happening is that you have such a large pool of Residence points (coupled with the borrowing feature) that it's not working the way you think it is (since you also had SAVED points, that tells me you're not using all the points).

While it doesn't surprise me that the Hilton IT system may not be able to distinguish, the club rules are quite specific, so it also wouldn't surprise me that IF this loophole exists, it gets closed down shortly.

Although all this is speculation since the club rules clearly state one thing, the sales person stated something else, and we don't have anyone (AFAIK) posting there that has the smallest Residence Club point package (5100 points?) AND another non-Residence club point package to test for us.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 30, 2017)

hurnik said:


> I agree that the quote you quoted is vague, but did you see the other part I  highlighted and underlined?  That is quite specific and not vague in any way.



This is still vague. I guess we will agree to disagree. This is mountain out of a molehill. What's the evidence of abuse? There is plenty of availability for owners during these windows and large point purchasers have 12 month home week priority over everyone.

Perhaps this is disconcerting because owners (even small ones) can reserve more of the units and make fewer units available to Vegas/Orlando traders and RCI when club season opens? Cry me a river...even small owners paid a hefty premium for the priviledge. AND consider that these owners (both large and small) have more investment and maintenance fees in the system if they also own a Vegas/Orlando or other HGVC property.

HGVC needs to focus on the highest priority issues. Rather than this issue, perhaps the current issue of incentivizing in favor of all Vegas/Orlando ownership is a loophole?  It disincents people from buying premium properties.  or the issue of non-owners who book club season or trade into NYC/Hawaii etc and then rent it out. Making the IT system work properly. This is a non-issue compared to these wide-scale concerns.

Maybe it was intended, maybe not but this has positive externalities: it rewards owners who pay a premium to buy into into these properties versus trade from Vegas, Orlando or RCI.  This is good for HGVC, good for owners, but bad for traders. If they try to limit this, it will only benefit the Vegas and RCI traders because it makes more units available and widens that loophole.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 30, 2017)

ccwu said:


> The system is using the oldest points first.  If you cancel, it will return the point that was used in the specific cancelled reservation.   You have choice only if you have bonus points.  It will ask you if you want to club points or bonus point before the confirming the reservation. I have many properties.  It never differentiate the points I use is from which property.  It just identify it by year.



This has been my experience as well.

@hurnik After I get points in the new year I will test with some dummy bookings to see if it works (booking/unbooking is free as a W57 owner).  We have 5250 but it should allow at least 15750 (3x) to account for banking and borrowing points.  I don't know how the system could differentiate what is a "banked NYC" vs "Banked Vegas/other HGVC" because it all sits in one pool.

Realistically, that is more points than we would ever use in NYC because we only book short weekend trips. We love NYC but who wants to stay that long in any city for vacation?  Remember you can stay an entire week for only 3750 points gold/5250 platinum. My allotment of 15,750 banking/borrowing could buy me three weeks platinum or 4.2 weeks gold, or 2.2 weeks in a 1 bedroom using only my NYC points.  That is a lot of NYC weekends. We would have to go beyond these parameters to dip into non-NYC points. This is probably why this is a non-issue and why we haven't seen abuse.


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## ccwu (Sep 30, 2017)

hurnik said:


> @ccwu :
> 
> Are you saying that you have actually booked using NON Residence points a "club" residence with Home Priority online?



I just contacted the HGVC elite premier services to get the answer.  He actually had to keep me hold to check with the supervisor.

1.  If I converted all points as the sales person suggested, I lost my right to reserve home week and owners' club reservation.  I would only reserve 44 days in advance using HGVC club points.
2.  I do not have the points yet, but I could book DC Residence Club 59 days in advance starting as soon as I became owner of NYC residence club.  He did not care where the points are from.  He said it is NYC residence club thing, complicated... He said DC residence club is the only other residence club for now.
3.  The system does not track where the points are from but track two thing - when you convert the whole package, not to exceed total points of the residence club reservation.  So I can not reserve more than my total points of 16,800 on owner's club reservations.  If I exceeds 16,800, I can only have 44 days window by using HGVC points (but since I am a owner, I can always use the owner's lounge.)

I think either I misunderstood the sales person, or he lied as you said.  Sorry.  So if I want to use owner's Club reservation to NYC, I need to cancel some Hawaii reservations for 2018. (Part of the shortage is I used 2018 in 2017)


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 30, 2017)

ccwu said:


> I just contacted the HGVC elite premier services to get the answer.  He actually had to keep me hold to check with the supervisor.
> 
> 1.  If I converted all points as the sales person suggested, I lost my right to reserve home week and owners' club reservation.  I would only reserve 44 days in advance using HGVC club points.
> 2.  I do not have the points yet, but I could book DC Residence Club 59 days in advance starting as soon as I became owner of NYC residence club.  He did not care where the points are from.  He said it is NYC residence club thing, complicated... He said DC residence club is the only other residence club for now.
> ...



Thank you @ccwu for sharing how the residences work.

Wouldn't you have at least 54,000 points (16,800 x3) because of banking and borrowing? (or at least 33,600 2018 + 2019 points borrowed because opens next year.)

What does "converting" mean?


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## hurnik (Sep 30, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thank you @ccwu for sharing how the residences work.
> 
> Wouldn't you have at least 54,000 points (16,800 x3) because of banking and borrowing? (or at least 33,600 2018 + 2019 points borrowed because opens next year.)
> 
> What does "converting" mean?



I think maybe he(?) means converting the HGVC points to Hhonors points?


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## hurnik (Sep 30, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This has been my experience as well.
> 
> @hurnik After I get points in the new year I will test with some dummy bookings to see if it works (booking/unbooking costs me nothing as a W57 owner).  We have 5250 but it should allow at least 15750 (3x) to account for banking and borrowing points.  I don't know how the system could differentiate what is a "banked NYC" vs "Banked Vegas/other HGVC" because it all sits in one pool.
> 
> Realistically, that is more points than we would ever use in NYC because we only book short weekend trips. We love NYC but who wants to stay that long in any city for vacation?  Remember you can stay an entire week for only 3750 points gold/5250 platinum. My allotment of 15,750 banking/borrowing could buy me three weeks platinum or 4.2 weeks gold, or 2.2 weeks in a 1 bedroom using only my NYC points.  That is a lot of NYC weekends. We would have to go beyond these parameters to dip into non-NYC points. This is probably why this is a non-issue and why we haven't seen abuse.



Yeah, I'd have to say it's all very confusing, but after looking at the club rules it begins to make more sense (to me anyway).

And I'd say (just a hunch) that not too many people own multiples of W57th, Residence, and "regular" HGVC, so it's probably not something that's come up.

Plus Residence is really new so there's probably no resales yet (again, just guessing, haven't fact-checked yet).

One the one hand, if HGVC will be using the Residence club model for DC (OK, we know this), Chicago, etc. I'd say then, that IF you could buy the lowest point one of those and combine with your regular (Vegas, Orlando, etc.) HGVC points and then use the total pool to book at the year Priority Window for all Residence Clubs, that'd be really sweet.  (Been wanting to go to DC and Chicago).

Probably things will get fleshed out more as they put more of these on the market.  In the meantime, when I'm ready for DC, there's a snowballs chance I'd be able to get a full week at the 44 day window, so it'd be a cheaper to do a VRBO (found a nice one really close with decent rental pricing).  Had been hoping I could use the 9-month window, but alas.  (although I understand given the cost of DC to put a timeshare there).


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 30, 2017)

hurnik said:


> And I'd say (just a hunch) that not too many people own multiples of W57th, Residence, and "regular" HGVC, so it's probably not something that's come up.
> 
> Plus Residence is really new so there's probably no resales yet (again, just guessing, haven't fact-checked yet).
> 
> ...



I agree.  It would be nice if a Grand Islander and DC owner could weigh in on how it works for them.  We are visiting DC next year on a VIP package (yes you can reserve 9 months in advance) and will report back.

Living on the west coast a 45 day window (or even a 60 day window) is worthless to me. Cannot get economical plane flights and not enough time to plan vacations. Trading RCI only works for a week at a time and a crapshoot on dates. Hard to plan with school schedules.  This seems like a benefit for locals who have flexible schedules and don't mind visiting during low season or mid-week and don't mind staying in the low end studios (max. 2 people) without lounge access - aka middle seat basic economy.

We would never buy a bigger NYC package because we don't visit enough to justify the premium.  Small package works best because we can reserve long weekends, New Years, Thanksgiving, business trips (with open season), and reserve larger and nicer units (even Penthouse) on relatively short notice with just studio plus points. Although we have many reasons to visit NYC (business/shows/sights/food/European layover), I see no reason to visit DC more than once in a blue moon with family to see the monuments and Smithsonian.

I too look forward to seeing how Residences plays out.  Maybe SF.


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## ccwu (Sep 30, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thank you @ccwu for sharing how the residences work.
> 
> Wouldn't you have at least 54,000 points (16,800 x3) because of banking and borrowing? (or at least 33,600 2018 + 2019 points borrowed because opens next year.)
> 
> What does "converting" mean?





CalGalTraveler said:


> Thank you @ccwu for sharing how the residences work.
> 
> Wouldn't you have at least 54,000 points (16,800 x3) because of banking and borrowing? (or at least 33,600 2018 + 2019 points borrowed because opens next year.)
> 
> What does "converting" mean?



Yes we have at least 54k annually.
I always trying to used future points.  We used 2017 points in 2016, and 2018 points in 2016. but when in the end of year, when we cancel a reservation not realize it was saved points from 2016 and that was a little problematic.  You always have three years on your account to use on the system.  Next year, we will have 2010. I used up to 70K for Hawaii next year.  Share with family and friends.  They reimburse my maintenance fee.
Convert - converting the 16,800 to hhonor points.  We have millions of hhoners points even we used it.  HHoner points is growing since we paid maintenance fee and purchasing from Hilton with Amex surpass card.  We plan to go to French Polynesian next year while going to Hawaii. Our Hilton Honer points will not go far in Hilton French Polynesian.


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## ccwu (Oct 31, 2017)

Hi
I just want to report that Hilton signed the waiver of my purchase of Hilton Club a few days ago. It took a month from purchase to them signing waiver. 
I am happy.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 31, 2017)

Congratulations on your purchase @ccwu. This will significantly reduce your cost per point.  What are maintenance fees for your NYC units?


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## JohnPaul (Oct 31, 2017)

hurnik said:


> One the one hand, if HGVC will be using the Residence club model for DC (OK, we know this), Chicago, etc. I'd say then, that IF you could buy the lowest point one of those and combine with your regular (Vegas, Orlando, etc.) HGVC points and then use the total pool to book at the year Priority Window for all Residence Clubs, that'd be really sweet.  (Been wanting to go to DC and Chicago).




FWIW the Hilton Club (DC and the Residences so far) model only allows 15 more days advance reservation than anyone else.  In other words, since I own at The Residences, I can book DC at 60 days instead of 45 and vice versa.  It does not allow me to book a year out or even nine months at a Hilton Club I don't own.


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## ccwu (Oct 31, 2017)

JohnPaul said:


> FWIW the Hilton Club (DC and the Residences so far) model only allows 15 more days advance reservation than anyone else.  In other words, since I own at The Residences, I can book DC at 60 days instead of 45 and vice versa.  It does not allow me to book a year out or even nine months at a Hilton Club I don't own.



Correct.  Hilton club is different than Residence Club or 57th Street.  It only allows


CalGalTraveler said:


> Congratulations on your purchase @ccwu. This will significantly reduce your cost per point.  What are maintenance fees for your NYC units?



owner of Hilton Club to book Hilton club.  So that is the advantage of being owner.  There is no competition.  I could book last minutes if I decide to visit NYC.  The reservation is only opened to member of Hilton Club. Non Hilton club member can get to there by sale presentation offer, RCI exchange only. Residence club member can book 57th street like any other HGVC member that only have 45 days window.  Residence club member can book other residence club in 60 days window.  member of residence club can book home resort 1 year for your home week, or 60 days to 9 months with club reservation.  once it opens to other members, the availability will shrink.  57th street may book residence club as other HGVC member in 45 days window.  It is reciprocal since Residence club member can not book 57th street until 45 days window.  Also only residence club member has privilege to use lounge in any residence club just like owner of 57th street are the only one can use 57th street lounge.  Hilton Club member can use their point to reserve any HGVC properties, if they want.  (by doing that, they provide inventory for Hilton GVC to offer member for special offer for price and presentation)


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## ccwu (Oct 31, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Congratulations on your purchase @ccwu. This will significantly reduce your cost per point.  What are maintenance fees for your NYC units?



I thought that I responded.  But I could not see it.  
The Hilton Club has a separate club fee of $273 a year.  The point is high, 0.28 per point for maintenance. so my MF for the 10,000 is $3,073.  Hilton Club does not sell by unit (studio, one bedroom or two bedroom) or season.  It is strictly 5,000 increment.  It also allows member to convert to HHoner points by any number of points.  I could convert 3,000 points and use 7,000 points.  You can borrow future year's Hilton club points, but you can only use points for Hilton Club for Hilton Club reservation.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks @ccwu  You also own at the residences too, correct? How do maintenance fees compare at NYC Residences vs HCNY?


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## Cyberc (Nov 18, 2017)

It seems that HGVC has now fixed the loophole where you could use you regular hgvc points to book w57 or the residence club if you were an owner of those resorts. 

We already have a confirmation from a w57 owner that the loophole is fixed. I wonder if the same goes for the residence club as the weasels promoted this as a “feature”?

Maybe some owners could try and make a dummy reservation which uses more than 2018 points, ofc you should not complete it just see where and when the points are taken from?

Regards


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## Helios (Nov 18, 2017)

Bad news for some, owners exploiting the loop hole, good news for others who don’t own there and live nearby for a quick trip to Gotham on short notice.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 18, 2017)

Helios said:


> Bad news for some, owners exploiting the loop hole, good news for others who don’t own there and live nearby for a quick trip to Gotham on short notice.



Nice to daydream about this but I sincerely doubt this will create more club availability because there are a limited number of people who own multiple properties, and this this capability was not well known or understood - even among "HGVC aware owners" like me.  As described on another thread, I would have been challenged to use much beyond what I own.


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## brp (Nov 19, 2017)

Helios said:


> Bad news for some, owners exploiting the loop hole, good news for others who don’t own there and live nearby for a quick trip to Gotham on short notice.



As one of the "owners exploiting the loop hole,: yup 

I liked it while it lasted but I can't, in any way, find fault with the change.

As noted, though, I would guess that the use of this loophole was very infrequent. Prolly why it took them so long to plug it.

And I'm going to guess that that only happened because of the rollout of Residences, and not specifically for W. 57th.

Cheers.


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## ccwu (Dec 27, 2017)

Just got notification of my Hilton Club purchase (on 9/25/2017) that they received fax from Hilton Club that Hilton Club complete the recording of the deed transfer.  I went to club.hiltonvacationclubs.com and verified it.  I even made a reservation of July for 4 nights in one bedroom.  I also checked the conversion rate to Hilton Honer point.  It is 1:50.
Very pleased with the professionalism of Lakeside Closing service and the ebay Purchase from 'timesharewarehouse' and their closing company.  This is the first time I dealt with them.  It took full three months.  But NYC has a more complicated procedures for deed transfer and recording.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 27, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> Ok, so this conversation has me completely confused about the NY properties and Hilton/Residence clubs.
> 
> I'm glad I live on the west coast and prefer Hawaii.  I've only been to W57th once using my HGVC points through RCI.  I really don't need to go ever again.



We live on the East Coast and we prefer Hawaii.  In fact we live about 70 miles from NYC and prefer to go to shows in Hawaii since it is so much easier and less expensive to go.  If you think staying in Manhattan is bad try getting into it from where we are.

To go to a show:  The drive without traffic, which is only in the middle of the night, is 1.5 hours.  During traffic times it can take 4 hours.  The parking is around $50  just for a show, the railroad is a 15 minute drive then a 5 minute walk from parking to the station, an 1.5 hour train ride for around 50 dollars a person round trip, then another 15 minute walk to a show or a subway ride for another $3 each person each way.  The walking can be in nice weather or not so nice weather as it is going into the low teens today.  In Honolulu it is a 20 minute free bus ride for seniors and 2 1 block walks to and from the bus in beautiful weather.


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## ccwu (Dec 27, 2017)

Tamaradarann said:


> We live on the East Coast and we prefer Hawaii.  In fact we live about 70 miles from NYC and prefer to go to shows in Hawaii since it is so much easier and less expensive to go.  If you think staying in Manhattan is bad try getting into it from where we are.
> 
> To go to a show:  The drive without traffic, which is only in the middle of the night, is 1.5 hours.  During traffic times it can take 4 hours.  The parking is around $50  just for a show, the railroad is a 15 minute drive then a 5 minute walk from parking to the station, an 1.5 hour train ride for around 50 dollars a person round trip, then another 15 minute walk to a show or a subway ride for another $3 each person each way.  The walking can be in nice weather or not so nice weather as it is going into the low teens today.  In Honolulu it is a 20 minute free bus ride for seniors and 2 1 block walks to and from the bus in beautiful weather.



We live about 80 miles from Manhattan.  We love to visit NYC once a while.  We ride train to NYC (not driving) and get uber or walking if weather is good to Hilton Club.  Stay a few nights for shows and may be Madison garden or met games.  We love to walk around times square and radio city hall or just revisit museums.  

We love Hawaii too.  We visit Hawaii a few weeks a year.  Love the water..  Just relaxing by the beach or walking in Waikiki shopping district.  There is lots to do in either Waikiki or big island.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 28, 2017)

ccwu said:


> We live about 80 miles from Manhattan.  We love to visit NYC once a while.  We ride train to NYC (not driving) and get uber or walking if weather is good to Hilton Club.  Stay a few nights for shows and may be Madison garden or met games.  We love to walk around times square and radio city hall or just revisit museums.
> 
> We love Hawaii too.  We visit Hawaii a few weeks a year.  Love the water..  Just relaxing by the beach or walking in Waikiki shopping district.  There is lots to do in either Waikiki or big island.



I agree that the train is better than driving.  We haven't driven to Manhattan in over 20 years.  However, going to a show by train is an all day expensive event for a matinee.  An evening show means getting home sometime the next morning which doesn't work for us at our age.  Staying in town would certainly work better but I would rather use my HGVC and HH points in Hawaii than in what I have always considered my backyard; being born in the Bronx, attending school in Brooklyn, and meeting my spouse in Manhattan.  

As far as going to shows in NY, which we love, we have found that the Gateway Performing Arts Center in Bellport has upgraded the quality of their performances to be an excellent alternative for better prices than NYC.  Seasonal tickets for 5 shows from May to September is around $200 or so which is about $40 a show.  We can easily eat dinner at home, drive 20 minutes door to door to see a show, and be home before 11 for evening performances.  For Met games we would never stay in Manhattan it is only a 1 hour drive and you can park right by the stadium.  

In Honolulu, everyday is a walk around fun event.  As far as shows the Blaisdell Center, Honolulu Academy of Arts, Hawaii Theatre, Manoa Valley Theatre, Brad Powell Theatre, Diamond Head Theatre, and the Blue Note Hawaii provide us with plenty of live shows when we are there within walking distance or a free bus ride with our senior bus pass.


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