# Value of 10K points for estate?



## sdtugger (May 4, 2016)

My brother and my parents bought a Sedona Summit unit together many years ago.  They did whatever was required to switch to the Diamond points system and they now jointly own 20K points.  Several years ago, my parents decided that they didn't want the hassle of using the unit anymore.  As a result, my brother has been paying the entire maintenance fee and using the entire unit.  I don't know anything about any discussions about buying my parents out at that time.

Anyway, my dad has now passed away and my brother called and suggested that it would be easier to move the entire ownership into his name before my mother passes.  I own in the Marriott system so I don't know anything about Diamond. How would we go about determining a fair value for the points?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## dioxide45 (May 4, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> My brother and my parents bought a Sedona Summit unit together many years ago.  They did whatever was required to switch to the Diamond points system and they now jointly own 20K points.  Several years ago, my parents decided that they didn't want the hassle of using the unit anymore.  As a result, my brother has been paying the entire maintenance fee and using the entire unit.  I don't know anything about any discussions about buying my parents out at that time.
> 
> Anyway, my dad has now passed away and my brother called and suggested that it would be easier to move the entire ownership into his name before my mother passes.  I own in the Marriott system so I don't know anything about Diamond. How would we go about determining a fair value for the points?
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.



I would think the value is very little, let him have it. One less thing to figure out what to do with when your mother does pass. People are basically paying DRI to take back deeds and points.


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## tschwa2 (May 4, 2016)

FMV is $0  They have no resale value.  Unfortunately Diamond strips resale points of many perks to the point of having no value and a fairly high MF's.  DRI accepts points back with the owner paying $299 per contract and takes a few months to complete the transfer.  

If your brother wants them, and has been paying the MF's, you (and your mother) should let him have them so you won't have to worry about disposing of them later.  If you want you can have him pay the fees to transfer the contracts into his name solely.


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## dioxide45 (May 4, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> FMV is $0  They have no resale value.  Unfortunately Diamond strips resale points of many perks to the point of having no value and a fairly high MF's.  DRI accepts points back with the owner paying $299 per contract and takes a few months to complete the transfer.
> 
> If your brother wants them, and has been paying the MF's, you (and your mother) should let him have them so you won't have to worry about disposing of them later.  If you want you can have him pay the fees to transfer the contracts into his name solely.



Will the points lose the perks that they currently have when they are transferred to the brother? I would think this is like inheriting an enrolled week in the Marriott system where they retain the ability to remain enrolled, but perhaps not?


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## artringwald (May 5, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Will the points lose the perks that they currently have when they are transferred to the brother? I would think this is like inheriting an enrolled week in the Marriott system where they retain the ability to remain enrolled, but perhaps not?



There's only one perk and that's membership in the Club. Club membership has it's own annual fee, but allows booking at any of DRI's properties. Club membership is not transferable when points are sold, but is transferable to family members.


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## tschwa2 (May 5, 2016)

The FMV is based on selling the unit on the open market (not a family transfer) thus the value of $0.
With a total of 20,000 the OP's brother retains use of the Club and also qualifies for silver benefits which he would retain with the family transfer.


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## winger (May 5, 2016)

20k pts is a decent amount. If your brothers uses it, then it is great he can obtain the CLUB membership and points this way as opposed to starting in his own.


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## sdtugger (May 5, 2016)

Thank you for all of the helpful responses!  Would this have been worth zero back when my brother started using it as his own somewhere around 8-10 years ago.  If not, is there any way to estimate the worth at that time?  Thanks.


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## tschwa2 (May 5, 2016)

There is no way to determine the fmv from 8-10 years ago.  That would have been 2006- 2008.


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## dioxide45 (May 5, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> There is no way to determine the fmv from 8-10 years ago.  That would have been 2006- 2008.



I would agree. I think the OP is looking for a way to compensate the mother and perhaps other siblings for the value of the timeshare that the brother is going to be taking. Even 8 years ago, it wouldn't have been more than a few hundred dollars, if anything at all. I say, if the brother has taken on this commitment from the parents, he is a saint. He actually did the other family members and parents a favor if the parents were not able to otherwise use it.

Just let him have the points. Just have him pay for any transfer fees.


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## sdtugger (May 5, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I would agree. I think the OP is looking for a way to compensate the mother and perhaps other siblings for the value of the timeshare that the brother is going to be taking. Even 8 years ago, it wouldn't have been more than a few hundred dollars, if anything at all. I say, if the brother has taken on this commitment from the parents, he is a saint. He actually did the other family members and parents a favor if the parents were not able to otherwise use it.
> 
> Just let him have the points. Just have him pay for any transfer fees.



You have it exactly right.  My brother owned at Sedona Summit and then he bought another unit with my parents.  I believe that my dad paid about $25K for the unit.  I found out about the purchase too late to suggest stopping it and buying resale.  The same unit that they spent $25K for was on the resale market for $5K or so.  If I understand correctly, they later spent another few thousand to join the club.

I am familiar with timeshare devaluations and I understand that these are now worth $0 (from this thread).  My remaining question is whether this would have had value back when my brother essentially "bought" out my parents with an understanding of later payment.  If not, then we should just make the switch and forget about payment to my Mom.  But, if the unit had some value then, I think it makes sense for my brother to pay her that value given that he's had the use of the unit for all of those years, etc.


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## dioxide45 (May 6, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> You have it exactly right.  My brother owned at Sedona Summit and then he bought another unit with my parents.  I believe that my dad paid about $25K for the unit.  I found out about the purchase too late to suggest stopping it and buying resale.  The same unit that they spent $25K for was on the resale market for $5K or so.  If I understand correctly, they later spent another few thousand to join the club.
> 
> I am familiar with timeshare devaluations and I understand that these are now worth $0 (from this thread).  My remaining question is whether this would have had value back when my brother essentially "bought" out my parents with an understanding of later payment.  If not, then we should just make the switch and forget about payment to my Mom.  But, if the unit had some value then, I think it makes sense for my brother to pay her that value given that he's had the use of the unit for all of those years, etc.



I think this situation may be different than simply what the value is or was. Even if the timeshare doesn't have any value, now or then, that may not mean that the brother should now get it for free. It seems that the brother may have had influence in them buying at least one of the timeshares full freight and basically had the parents buy the timeshare for him. It seems that he may have taken advantage of the situation to get his dad to buy him a timeshare to use for all of these years. Of course, even if they didn't spend the money then on the timeshares, it doesn't mean that money would still be there today for the mother.


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## e.bram (May 6, 2016)

At this point I think, everybody owes your brother for picking up the MFs for all these years!


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## taterhed (May 6, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> You have it exactly right. My brother owned at Sedona Summit and then he bought another unit with my parents.
> 
> I am familiar with timeshare devaluations and I understand that these are now worth $0 (from this thread). My remaining question is whether this would have had value back when my brother essentially "bought" out my parents with an understanding of later payment. If not, then we should just make the switch and forget about payment to my Mom. But, if the unit had some value then, I think it makes sense for my brother to pay her that value given that he's had the use of the unit for all of those years, etc.


 
 I think you're right....sort of.

 I think he should agree to book a nice family get-together with points.  That way, the entire family can enjoy the use and time together.  That seems like more than enough payment.  After all, the time spent with family and good family-relations will be far more valuable than a few paltry dollars paid to Mom (IMHO).  If the chips are ever down, it will take a lot of goodwill, time and effort to support Mom (or another member of the family).  That's when the 'payback'--be it time, money or emotional support-- is important.

 Just my 2c


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## dougp26364 (May 6, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> My brother and my parents bought a Sedona Summit unit together many years ago.  They did whatever was required to switch to the Diamond points system and they now jointly own 20K points.  Several years ago, my parents decided that they didn't want the hassle of using the unit anymore.  As a result, my brother has been paying the entire maintenance fee and using the entire unit.  I don't know anything about any discussions about buying my parents out at that time.
> 
> Anyway, my dad has now passed away and my brother called and suggested that it would be easier to move the entire ownership into his name before my mother passes.  I own in the Marriott system so I don't know anything about Diamond. How would we go about determining a fair value for the points?
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.



First, the reality as previously mentioned is zero.

Second, if they bought the unit jointly and his name is on the deed along with the parents, it should (I am not an estate lawyer) pass to the survivor upon death of the other owners without the need of probate. 

I would like to assume that upon the death of one of the joint owners, it would be a relatively simple task to get the deed changed removing the name(s) of the deceased. Probably less cost involved as well. However, as it is with anything timeshare were the purchase of new points/deeds isn't involved, there's little incentive for the management team to expedite any paperwork. I'm relatively certain removing a living owner from the deed will prove to be more difficult than providing death certificates to remove deceased owners. For that matter I doubt there would be any issue until the death of the final owner and even then, unless someone REALLY wanted to assume the liability only to the degree of going thru probate and getting the name on the deed changed, similar to any resale. 

In short, if the brother is named on the deed already I see little reason for the brother to need to make any changes. The mother, on the other hand, might want her name off the deed in case the son defaults, which would could damage her credit rating.


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## sdtugger (May 6, 2016)

Thank you again for all of the helpful replies.  It sounds like the value of the timeshare would have been at or near zero 8-10 years ago.  Is that right?  I ask because I priced resale versions at around $5K when they bought the unit and I think my brother's "buy out" purchase would have been before the real estate crash.

I'm afraid that I don't follow the reasoning in the posts suggesting that my brother did my parents a favor by taking over the timeshare maintenance payments.  If there was value at that time (which my brother thought there was, but said he'd pay later), wouldn't it be the other way around?  If there was no value at that time, wasn't there an option to give it back to DRI like there is now?

It may be easier to deal with things after my mother passes.  But, my brother and I share the goal of simplifying everything before my mother passes.  Thanks!


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## bizaro86 (May 6, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> Thank you again for all of the helpful replies.  It sounds like the value of the timeshare would have been at or near zero 8-10 years ago.  Is that right?  I ask because I priced resale versions at around $5K when they bought the unit and I think my brother's "buy out" purchase would have been before the real estate crash.
> 
> I'm afraid that I don't follow the reasoning in the posts suggesting that my brother did my parents a favor by taking over the timeshare maintenance payments.  If there was value at that time (which my brother thought there was, but said he'd pay later), wouldn't it be the other way around?  If there was no value at that time, wasn't there an option to give it back to DRI like there is now?
> 
> It may be easier to deal with things after my mother passes.  But, my brother and I share the goal of simplifying everything before my mother passes.  Thanks!



I think I'd ask him what he wants to do about it. If he offers to pay something, great, if not, well, is it worth damaging a relationship over what is unlikely to be more than $1000?

Sometimes exact fairness isn't that important.


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## CO skier (May 7, 2016)

sdtugger said:


> It may be easier to deal with things after my mother passes.  But, my brother and I share the goal of simplifying everything before my mother passes.  Thanks!



It is much easier to deal with this now when your mother can sign the transfer paperwork.  *The DRI timeshare has negative value*; it would cost each of them $125 per contract to deed it back to DRI.  (Whatever it may have been worth 10 years ago -- which was likely nothing -- is irrelevant).

Your brother is right.  This simplest solution, since he is will willing to accept the maintenance fees, is to remove your mother from their joint ownership.  Have him pay only whatever costs it takes to accomplish that and be grateful that is was so simple.


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## dioxide45 (May 7, 2016)

I think the issue is more than how much is the timeshare worth today or eight years ago. It seems like brother was able to convince dad to buy him a timeshare for tens of thousands of dollars. Sure the brother paid the MFs all these years, but what about those tens of thousands of dollars that dad spent on brother?

I guess it really doesn't matter now, but I can understand how this works in families. In my parents family there was one sister and BIL that borrowed and borrowed money from mom for all kinds of things like business ventures, home upgrades, and cars only to have it all written off upon her death. That was her wish, but was this really fair to all the other siblings?

I do think it is easier to just move forward at this point, move the timeshares in to the brother's name as it will be easier now than later. However, if there is going to be probate on the estate anyway, adding a couple timeshares in there won't really make much difference.


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## VegasBella (May 7, 2016)

This sounds like this is between your mother and brother, not you. Unless she's sick and can't handle her own finances then I don't see why the OP is involved at all.


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## geist1223 (May 7, 2016)

I do not attribute bad thoughts/actions to brother that has been using TS and paying MF'S - that he somehow suckered Dad into making this purchase so he could use it. The Poster should let it go. The Poster could have stepped up to the plate and paid all or part of the MF's. Close not to a and now wants something for nothing. TAKE a deep breathe, holds for 10 seconds, now let it out slowly. Move on with life.


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## sdtugger (May 7, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think the issue is more than how much is the timeshare worth today or eight years ago. It seems like brother was able to convince dad to buy him a timeshare for tens of thousands of dollars. Sure the brother paid the MFs all these years, but what about those tens of thousands of dollars that dad spent on brother?
> 
> I guess it really doesn't matter now, but I can understand how this works in families. In my parents family there was one sister and BIL that borrowed and borrowed money from mom for all kinds of things like business ventures, home upgrades, and cars only to have it all written off upon her death. That was her wish, but was this really fair to all the other siblings?
> 
> I do think it is easier to just move forward at this point, move the timeshares in to the brother's name as it will be easier now than later. However, if there is going to be probate on the estate anyway, adding a couple timeshares in there won't really make much difference.



Thanks Dioxide.  You've captured the key issues.  The goal is not to probate the estate when the time comes.  So, it makes sense to make the change now.  I certainly don't want to create bad feelings for a small amount of money.  But, I also don't think it is a big deal to try to be fair to my mother.  If the unit was worth $5K when my brother took over the usage, then wouldn't it be unfair if he took over the usage of the unit without paying at least that value back to my parents who he persuaded to invest north of $25K a few years before?

That is why I've been asking if anyone knows the value 8-10 years earlier.


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## sdtugger (May 7, 2016)

VegasBella said:


> This sounds like this is between your mother and brother, not you. Unless she's sick and can't handle her own finances then I don't see why the OP is involved at all.



Yes, I have been asked to help my mother with her finances.


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## sdtugger (May 7, 2016)

geist1223 said:


> I do not attribute bad thoughts/actions to brother that has been using TS and paying MF'S - that he somehow suckered Dad into making this purchase so he could use it. The Poster should let it go. The Poster could have stepped up to the plate and paid all or part of the MF's. Close not to a and now wants something for nothing. TAKE a deep breathe, holds for 10 seconds, now let it out slowly. Move on with life.



Wow.  I'm not sure where you got this interpretation or why you felt the need to post such a condescending comment.

I have been asked to help my mother with her finances.  My brother asked if we should transfer ownership of a timeshare that he bought jointly with our parents.  He took over usage of the timeshare 8-10 years ago with the understanding that he would pay the value at a later time.  Is it so crazy to want to determine the value at the time he took over usage?

Also, as I mentioned above, I don't understand why you and and a few others think he did my parents some kind of big favor?  He has enjoyed all the benefits of the timeshare for 8-10 years without paying anything for it.  My parents could have sold it or given it back to the timeshare company if it really was worthless.

And, I have no idea why you think I should have paid the maintenance fees or how I want something for nothing?  I think you are misinterpreting the situation.


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