# Interval Leisure Group buys Starwood, then Starwood and Marriott merge. Means what?



## theo (Dec 30, 2015)

I know absolutely *nothing* about Starwood, but I recently read an article indicating that Starwood sold its' timeshare business  (reportedly called Vistana Signature Experiences) to Interval Leisure Group (ILG), the corporate bohemoth that also owns Interval International (II) and Vacation Resorts International (VRI). 

I'm just idly curious what this sale / acquisition potentially means, if anything at all, for Starwood owners, in light of Marriott and Starwood also (soon after the above mentioned sale)  merging to create what is reportedly now the world's largest hotel company.

I have no personal ownership in *any* of these entities, but I am curious nonetheless.


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## DeniseM (Dec 30, 2015)

theo - We have no idea - just speculation so far.

*Look on the next page and you will see some long discussions about both acquisitions.


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## lizap (Dec 30, 2015)

II also acquired Hyatt a while back. So far, nothing has changed except we were all upgraded to Interval Gold.


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## sjsharkie (Jan 4, 2016)

I will say that I have noticed a larger number of Getaways for Hyatt properties (mostly in Hawaii) being posted for rental versus exchanged after the acquisition was finalized.

I have a bad feeling that now that ILG will have control over unsold/unrented inventory (assuming the acquisition is completed and finalized), they may choose to rent higher value properties versus putting them into the pool for exchange as Starwood does today.

It will also remain to be seen how they handle the current blended exchange rate versus Marriott and Hyatt where an actual week is deposited.  I imagine they will keep it status quo as it is to their advantage to pick and choose which weeks go into the pool versus leaving it up to the owner.

-ryan


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## SueDonJ (Jan 4, 2016)

In the Starwood forum:
Marriott to acquire Starwood hotels
Interval Leisure Group to buy SVO

In the Marriott forum:
Holy Moly. Marriott is acquiring Starwood [Hotel Business, not Timeshares]
Marriott to Spin Off Timeshare Business [merged]

Marriott timeshares were spun off in 2011 (to Marriott Vacations Worldwide,) long before Starwood entered into either of these agreements to spin off their timeshare division to ILG and sell their remaining business to Marriott, Int'l., which means it's important to note that these specific transactions won't result in a merge of the Starwood and Marriott timeshares.  I do expect that with each company's timeshare divisions being affiliated with their respective hotel loyalty award programs, eventually when all the transactions are complete then all of the timeshare owners will have at least a minimum affiliation with the Marriott Rewards program.

Interesting times, no doubt.  I'm excited to see the end results.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 4, 2016)

Hyatt may have a fixed week attached to their points but Hyatt always decided which weeks and resorts were actually deposited into II and which weeks stay in the internal (non II) exchange pool.  I don't see II reversing the starwood system and allowing owners to deposit actual weeks into the II exchange pool.


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## sjsharkie (Jan 4, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> Hyatt may have a fixed week attached to their points but Hyatt always decided which weeks and resorts were actually deposited into II and which weeks stay in the internal (non II) exchange pool.  I don't see II reversing the starwood system and allowing owners to deposit actual weeks into the II exchange pool.


This is true.  Although we don't exactly know how it was decided, it wasn't solely in Hyatt's control -- likely similar to Starwood there was some structure in the contract which said which groups of weeks were allowed based on points allocated in the deposit.

Agree with your second point.  It is to ILG's advantage to keep the status quo.

-ryan


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## PClapham (Jan 11, 2016)

*Starwood, Marriott timeshares, and Hyatt timeshares all now owned by II (ILG)?*

Is this true?  II really controls all three groups?

Anita


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## sjsharkie (Jan 11, 2016)

PClapham said:


> Is this true?  II really controls all three groups?
> 
> Anita


II already controls Hyatt's former timeshare business.  II will control Starwood's former timeshare business once the transaction closes.

II has no control over Marriott's publicly traded vacation club business.  Marriott signed an agreement to purchase Starwood's hotel business but that transaction has yet to close.

-ryan


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## vistana101 (Jan 12, 2016)

Read through a bit of the S-4 regarding the ILG and SVO acquisition, and found a bit more about their agreement with Starwood (bolding is mine):



> In connection with the License Agreement, Starwood and its affiliate, Preferred Guest, Inc., and Vistana will enter into the SPG Affiliation Agreement, which will provide for the continued participation of Vistana, the Westin®, Sheraton®, St. Regis® and The Luxury Collection®, branded properties and certain licensed unbranded vacation ownership properties in Starwood's Starwood Preferred Guest® loyalty program. *The SPG Affiliation Agreement permits Vistana and its affiliates to offer Starpoints® to SPG Members as an incentive upon purchase of a Vistana vacation ownership property, for conversion of a licensed vacation ownership interest or property,* to resolve certain customer service issues or otherwise as a gesture of goodwill, and for certain promotional purposes. The SPG Affiliation Agreement provides the terms on which Starpoints® awarded in connection with the foregoing uses will expire or be forfeited as well as for their redemption, transfer and use. Unless otherwise terminated earlier as a result of certain defaults, the SPG Affiliation Agreement will terminate in connection with the termination or expiration of the License Agreement.



The document also stated this later on: "The SPG Affiliation Agreement to be entered into in connection with the Separation will allow the Vistana Vacation Ownership Business to continue to offer preferred membership in one of the industry's leading loyalty programs, the SPG Program."

So it looks like, at least with SPG, we will still be able to convert to starpoints and have elite membership levels (SPG Gold and Plat). Hopefully this agreement remains intact even with the Marriott merger.


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## pacman777 (Jan 12, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> Read through a bit of the S-4 regarding the ILG and SVO acquisition, and found a bit more about their agreement with Starwood (bolding is mine):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I highly doubt Marriott will keep two separate rewards programs after they acquire Starwood. Most likely Marriott's program will remain with maybe some slight modifications or adoption of some of SPG benefits. Where does that leave Vistana? I'm concerned about their tie-in with Starwood and its brands.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 12, 2016)

PClapham said:


> Is this true?  II really controls all three groups?
> 
> Anita





sjsharkie said:


> II already controls Hyatt's former timeshare business.  II will control Starwood's former timeshare business once the transaction closes.
> 
> II has no control over Marriott's publicly traded vacation club business.  Marriott signed an agreement to purchase Starwood's hotel business but that transaction has yet to close.
> 
> -ryan



As indicated II only has (or will have) control over Hyatt and Starwood timeshare businesses. They don't have ownership of Marriott Vacation Club. Marriott International is acquiring Starwood's hotel business. This last transaction is in no way tied to any of the timeshare transactions.


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## Ron98GT (Jan 12, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> As indicated II only has (or will have) control over Hyatt and Starwood timeshare businesses. They don't have ownership of Marriott Vacation Club. Marriott International is acquiring Starwood's timeshare business. This last transaction is in no way tied to any of the timeshare transactions.


Oops, I think you meant Hotel Business.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 12, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> Oops, I think you meant Hotel Business.



Sure did, fixed it.


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## djp (Jan 13, 2016)

I can't help but wonder if in next year or two if ILG will acquire Marriott timeshare biz- it just seems to make sense- a giant Marriott hotel biz that includes Starwood in strategic partnership with ILG on the timeshare side, and in effect the Starwood and Marriott timeshares are under one umbrella under ILG.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 13, 2016)

djp said:


> I can't help but wonder if in next year or two if ILG will acquire Marriott timeshare biz- it just seems to make sense- a giant Marriott hotel biz that includes Starwood in strategic partnership with ILG on the timeshare side, and in effect the Starwood and Marriott timeshares are under one umbrella under ILG.



The giant Marriott hotel biz won't be in a partnership with ILG because a) Marriott's timeshare company (Marriott Vacations Worldwide) has since 2011 been a completely separate company from Marriott's hotel company (Marriott, Int'l,) and b) Starwood's timeshare company (to be named Vistana) will have been spun off to ILG by the time Starwood's hotel company is bought by MI.

ILG could of course acquire MVW at any time but if/when it does, the only partnership it will have with MI is what exists now - an affiliation for the timeshare owners with the Marriott Rewards loyalty program that comes under the MI umbrella.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 13, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> Read through a bit of the S-4 regarding the ILG and SVO acquisition, and found a bit more about their agreement with Starwood (bolding is mine):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is there language elsewhere that says the affiliation between the timeshares and SPG is not guaranteed to exist forever, that the company is free to end or change the affiliation at any time, that the associated benefits can be revoked/amended for various reasons?  I'd expect there is.

I'm with pacman in highly doubting that MI will keep two completely separate loyalty programs intact when the Starwood acquisition is finalized.  Instead I think SPG will be merged with Marriott Rewards and the Vistana timeshares will still have an entitlement to the resulting hotel loyalty program incantation.


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## okwiater (Jan 13, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Is there language elsewhere that says the affiliation between the timeshares and SPG is not guaranteed to exist forever, that the company is free to end or change the affiliation at any time, that the associated benefits can be revoked/amended for various reasons?  I'd expect there is.



There is a 75-year affiliation agreement. So it's guaranteed to exist for quite a bit longer than I expect to exist. I would imagine, but don't know for certain, that the agreement would also be applicable to any future program designed to replace/absorb SPG.



SueDonJ said:


> I'm with pacman in highly doubting that MI will keep two completely separate loyalty programs intact when the Starwood acquisition is finalized.  Instead I think SPG will be merged with Marriott Rewards and the Vistana timeshares will still have an entitlement to the resulting hotel loyalty program incantation.



I agree, and the Marriott chairman has said as much. I think they will stay separate for 1-3 years while a comprehensive brand integration and loyalty strategy is developed, at which point they will both dissolve in favor of a replacement program that is neither Marriott Rewards nor SPG.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 13, 2016)

okwiater said:


> There is a 75-year affiliation agreement. So it's guaranteed to exist for quite a bit longer than I expect to exist. I would imagine, but don't know for certain, that the agreement would also be applicable to any future program designed to replace/absorb SPG.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, and the Marriott chairman has said as much. I think they will stay separate for 1-3 years while a comprehensive brand integration and loyalty strategy is developed, at which point they will both dissolve in favor of a replacement program that is neither Marriott Rewards nor SPG.



I doubt MI will see a need to sink that much money into changing the name of its loyalty program because of this acquisition.

Another TUGger mentioned in a related thread that MI could keep SPG separate in the same way that they kept the Ritz-Carlton loyalty program separate from Marriott Rewards when R-C was absorbed by MI.  My guess is that keeping the programs separate like that would cost MI far less to implement, but as you say the MI Chairman has indicated something different.


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## vistana101 (Jan 13, 2016)

SPG Affiliation Agreement ends when License Agreement ends, in 2095. 

Also, found this today:



> Merger of Programs.  In the event the SPG Program is combined with or becomes part of another Loyalty Program, Starwood shall treat Owners who hold Starpoints in a manner consistent with other SPG Members other than with respect to the rights described in Sections 4(a) and 6(a).



Note that Section 4(a) deals with 6 year expiration of starpoints, and 6(a) deals with elite status offerings (bolding is mine):



> (a)Elite Offerings.  Vistana may provide (i) *Gold Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner of a Licensed Vacation Ownership Property* (other than Specified Fractional Properties) or a Licensed Unbranded Property until such Owner is no longer an Owner of such Vacation Ownership Property; (ii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any initial purchaser of fractional units at Specified Fractional Properties during such initial purchaser’s term of ownership of such fractional unit; and (iii) *Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner who is a Five Star Elite member* (as defined in the Vistana Specific Use SOP) until such Owner is no longer an Owner of Licensed Vacation Ownership Properties or Licensed Unbranded Properties or fails to meet the Five Star Elite member requirements which are set forth in the Vistana Specific Use SOP (collectively, the “Elite Offerings”).


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## lizap (Jan 13, 2016)

Certainly will be interesting to follow.  We stay at both Westin and Marriott hotels as well as TSs.  They cater to a different market.  Westins have a more modern, upscale feel.  While Marriotts are very nice, generally they feel and look more traditional.  IMO, Marriott beats Starwood on service.  Some of the products are not interchangeable.  It would not surprise me to see Marriott keep the Westin, Aloft, W, and St. Regis brands while merging Sheraton and Hampton into its current system.





okwiater said:


> There is a 75-year affiliation agreement. So it's guaranteed to exist for quite a bit longer than I expect to exist. I would imagine, but don't know for certain, that the agreement would also be applicable to any future program designed to replace/absorb SPG.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, and the Marriott chairman has said as much. I think they will stay separate for 1-3 years while a comprehensive brand integration and loyalty strategy is developed, at which point they will both dissolve in favor of a replacement program that is neither Marriott Rewards nor SPG.


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## Ron98GT (Jan 13, 2016)

lizap said:


> Certainly will be interesting to follow.  We stay at both Westin and Marriott hotels as well as TSs.  They cater to a different market.  Westins have a more modern, upscale feel.  While Marriotts are very nice, generally they feel and look more traditional.  IMO, Marriott beats Starwood on service.  Some of the products are not interchangeable.  It would not surprise me to see Marriott keep the Westin, Aloft, W, and St. Regis brands while merging Sheraton and Hampton into its current system.



Hampton (Inn) is part of the Hilton family of hotels.

Sheraton has a big brand name following, so I can't see Marriott changing the name.

Be interesting to see what happens to the Sheraton hotel on Kauai, in Poipu. They are converting some of the hotel units to TS's.   Bet they are glad that none of the OF units are being converted.

Wow, that made me think about the Sheraton hotel on Maui next to Black Rock, along with the Westin hotel, next to Whalers Village and down fro the Marriott TS's.  Marriott is going to have a large presence on Ka'Anapali, just like they do in Aruba, just larger.


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## okwiater (Jan 13, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> Be interesting to see what happens to the Sheraton hotel on Kauai, in Poipu. They are converting some of the hotel units to TS's.   Bet they are glad that none of the OF units are being converted.



What makes you say only some of the units are being converted to timeshare? My understanding is that the entire property is being transferred to the newly spun-off timeshare business, and I can only imagine that this means they would eventually all be converted.


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## lizap (Jan 14, 2016)

Oops, of course. I can see some Sheratons being changed to Marriotts, especially those in large urban areas..



Ron98GT said:


> Hampton (Inn) is part of the Hilton family of hotels.
> 
> Sheraton has a big brand name following, so I can't see Marriott changing the name.
> 
> ...


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## Ron98GT (Jan 14, 2016)

okwiater said:


> What makes you say only some of the units are being converted to timeshare? My understanding is that the entire property is being transferred to the newly spun-off timeshare business, and I can only imagine that this means they would eventually all be converted.


Just do a Google search.  There are a number of news articles that specifically state that "a number of" units will be converted to timeshares.  I couldn't find the one that stated that no OF units will be converted to TS's though.

http://honolulu.suntimes.com/hnl-news/7/100/50782/kauai-sheraton-plans-conversion-to-timeshares

http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/blog/sheraton-kauai-resort-converted-timeshare/

http://www.staradvertiser.com/hawaii-news/kauai-sheraton-plans-conversion-to-timeshares/


UPDATE:  I found it (red highlite added my me):

“Currently, the proposed plan includes keeping the ocean wing as a hotel, while converting the garden wing and undeveloped land adjacent to the property to Starwood Vacation Ownership product,” Chan said ...

http://advantagevacation.com/starwood-timeshare-plans-for-sheraton-kauai/


Hmmm, I don't remember the vacant property next door to the Sheraton, although I was only on the beach down from the Marriott, but Starwood reserved the right to build a TS on the vacant land.  Interesting.


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## Ron98GT (Jan 14, 2016)

lizap said:


> Oops, of course. I can see some Sheratons being changed to Marriotts, especially those in large urban areas..


What do you thing the NYC Sheraton's' would be changed to?

The one thing that sticks out about the Sheraton that we stayed in a number of years ago, I think on 7th Avenue, was how very small the room was.


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## okwiater (Jan 14, 2016)

Ron98GT said:


> Just do a Google search.  There are a number of news articles that specifically state that "a number of" units will be converted to timeshares.  I couldn't find the one that stated that no OF units will be converted to TS's though.
> 
> http://honolulu.suntimes.com/hnl-news/7/100/50782/kauai-sheraton-plans-conversion-to-timeshares
> 
> ...



Very interesting... hadn't seen that previously!


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## taterhed (Jan 14, 2016)

Awesome Possum!

An alternative to MAW for me!
er...better yet, 1 week in each!


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## LisaRex (Jan 14, 2016)

Re the new WSJ "Sunset Bay" phase.  Here is a thread devoted to it.  

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233246&highlight=refresh


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## Ron98GT (Jan 15, 2016)

taterhed said:


> Awesome Possum!
> 
> An alternative to MAW for me!
> er...better yet, 1 week in each!


That's a real nice beach  down by the Sheraton, which is why I walked down there from MAW: I could snorkel without my chest scraping rocks.


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## taterhed (Jan 15, 2016)

Yeah, we love that trail, I think its called heritage, it's our favorite walk all the way out to the cliffs

sent from my cell phone...


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## thinze3 (Jan 16, 2016)

taterhed said:


> Awesome Possum!
> 
> An alternative to MAW for me!
> er...better yet, 1 week in each!




Based on recent reviews at the Sheraton, unless they do a major renovation, you may want to keep your MAW week.


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## daywalkerr (Mar 16, 2016)

*More new on cash offer*

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...t-buy-starwood-chinese-firm-comes-higher-bid/


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## The Haileys (Mar 25, 2016)

Just came across this..... http://milecards.com/1588427270/wha...and-whats-not-mentioned-thats-more-important/ 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 26, 2016)

^^^^ good read ^^^^

Unfortunately, our SPG usage/status is going to get hurt in these scenarios.  Especially since the eventual combining of the program can only devalue the SPG program to match Marriott.  SPG cost to us has already skyrocketed 50% for us in last couple of years, and has already become of marginal value to accumulate (and losing Costco AMEX).

I am not a fan of the foreign purchase of US companies - but this is an instance that it could be better than the merger for customers like us (sorry to say).  
IMO YMMV

We are down to 120K SPs - one last trip?
be interesting to see how it unfolds...


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## The Haileys (Mar 26, 2016)

Concur. We get most of our points via Amex spending. We've planned it out to have enough to get a week at the Sheraton Kona Resort to go along with a Villa week in Kauai, and upgrade our flights to first class, at least the west coast to Honolulu leg ... in addition to weekend getaways. 

I've got a bad feeling about this ...


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## Helios (Mar 26, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> ^^^^ good read ^^^^
> 
> Unfortunately, our SPG usage/status is going to get hurt in these scenarios.  Especially since the eventual combining of the program can only devalue the SPG program to match Marriott.  SPG cost to us has already skyrocketed 50% for us in last couple of years, and has already become of marginal value to accumulate (and losing Costco AMEX).
> 
> ...



Interesting.  Redemption options and value will go down definitely.  Elite perks will be seriously diluted.  Sad to think about this while using an award of 30k SPs for 3 nights that gave us an upgrade to an 18th Floor Ocean Front Renewal Suite with Club Floor Access at the Westin Playa Bonita Panama.  Just before this, we got really Plat perks at Westin Playa Del Conchal in CR.

I don't like the Chinese people buying Starwood idea.  However, being selfish, I think that will be the best option for my situation (and probably any SPG loyal).  They don't have a rewards program and would bring several very nice properties with them.  I would assume they would keep SPG Status Quo.  So sad to think about the end of SPG.


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## Helios (Mar 26, 2016)

The Haileys said:


> Concur. We get most of our points via Amex spending. We've planned it out to have enough to get a week at the Sheraton Kona Resort to go along with a Villa week in Kauai, and upgrade our flights to first class, at least the west coast to Honolulu leg ... in addition to weekend getaways.
> 
> I've got a bad feeling about this ...



Same here about earning SPs.  Costco is a big source but I can deal with losing it.  I love Amex and have started to look for an AMEX replacement.  I have a Visa and a MC for other programs.

My bad feeling makes me sick just to think about Marriott killing SPG.


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## Ken555 (Mar 26, 2016)

Recently spoke with a few friends who travel extensively and tend to stay at Marriotts. They are salivating at the notion of staying at Starwood properties. I don't personally know any SPG member saying the same about Marriott. 

I've still got two SPG AMEX cards, but I've primarily replaced them with others already...depending what happens this year I can easily see myself converting them to different AMEX affinity cards (since I like AMEX as a consumer...been a cardholder a long time and see no reason to jettison AMEX with this change).


Sent from my iPad


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## blondietink (Mar 27, 2016)

We will probably convert a lot of our Starpoints into airline miles, then sometime after the merger get whatever card Marriott offers.  I'm sure they will have some kind of promotion to join their program.  Then we will dump our SPG American Express card that we generally use at Costco, since they are going over to Visa.  Of course, if we close the Amex Card, it will hurt the credit rating, but I don't feel like paying the yearly $95 fee just to have it open, unless Amex give us some kind of incentive to keep it.  

We mostly stay in small cities, so having the ability to use Marriott is fine with us.  I think we have stayed in a Sheraton hotel twice since we joined Starwood 7 years ago.


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## okwiater (Mar 27, 2016)

I was initially more positive about the merger, because I thought that it could be an opportunity for Marriott to position itself with leisure travelers against encroachment by Airbnb, Hotel Tonight, pack up + go, etc. by offering more consistency and variety as well as rewarding loyalty. However, these latest comments suggest that Marriott still isn't thinking much beyond the business traveler.

My prediction is that SPG Gold will be converted to Marriott Silver, and SPG Platinum will be converted to Marriott Gold. Combined with a points devaluation -- notwithstanding that Arne has stated flat out that they are not interested in devaluing points, for whatever that's worth (not much) -- that would be a pretty significant kill shot for the program as a Vistana/ILG perk.


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## vistana101 (Mar 27, 2016)

Interesting article with very valid points. I'm very worried about Marriott's conversion of current starpoints. They categorize their hotels much less generously than Starwood, with lower brands like Courtyard and Fairfield suites dominating most of cat 1-7 in desirable locations, and of course the Ritz Carlton's are in an entirely different tier which costs more points. There are cases where even a 1 to 4 conversion, which I highly, highly doubt they would do, wouldn't provide enough points to stay in a similar (or worse) Marriott property in the same location. This then makes me nervous regarding the timeshare conversion rates, which are already not great with SPG's system. 

I would definitely be disappointed if they converted SPG Gold to silver, which has basically no value and can be obtained by simply getting the Marriott credit card. I would hope that they might restructure the program a bit to make a level more similar to SPG Gold. Although many say SPG Gold has no value, I have gotten several nice room upgrades with it, and the 4pm late checkout and higher earning rates have definitely been appreciated and used. 

Also, I don't love the fact that Marriott Rewards and Ritz Carlton are different programs and you can't sign up for both. 

If things really go badly, I'm prepared to transfer stays to Hyatt's program, although I am a bit stuck as I convert a week to points relatively often. If only Hyatt could have acquired Starwood!


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## Xpat (Mar 27, 2016)

djp said:


> I can't help but wonder if in next year or two if ILG will acquire Marriott timeshare biz- it just seems to make sense- a giant Marriott hotel biz that includes Starwood in strategic partnership with ILG on the timeshare side, and in effect the Starwood and Marriott timeshares are under one umbrella under ILG.



I can think of a few reasons why an MVCI/ILG merger would make sense for both entities:

- Both businesses would be roughly the same size once ILG has combined with Vistana

- If ILG is building a multi-brand timeshare franchise, then adding MVCI will only make its platform more valuable and will establish it as the leader in the premium timeshare segment. It would also secure Interval's premium positioning vs RCI in the exchange business.

- MVCI shareholders would gain better diversification of revenues thanks to Interval's recurrent membership and fee income streams. MVCI is today very dependent on sales and financing, which makes it a more risky proposition in case of another economic downturn, or changes in timeshare sales and marketing regulations.

- Having both Starwood and Marriott brands under the same roof would also solve some operational and marketing headaches if the Marriott/Starwood merger goes through.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 28, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> This then makes me nervous regarding the timeshare conversion rates, which are already not great with SPG's system.



I'm hopeful that conversion feature remains, but given it's part of the SVN "club" features, and not a deeded right, so subject to change without notice, and SVO turning in to VSE and being merged with ILG leaving it separated from SPG, and SPG being effectively swallowed by Marriott, all those moving pieces headed in different directions with different drivers leaves me cautious about this surviving in its current form in the long run...



vistana101 said:


> I would definitely be disappointed if they converted SPG Gold to silver, which has basically no value and can be obtained by simply getting the Marriott credit card.



There are lots of ways of getting SPG Gold with minimal stays, so I personally would be fine with it matching "downwards" and hopefully leaving the various forms of SPG Platinum with better status level matches.


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## Helios (Mar 28, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> There are lots of ways of getting SPG Gold with minimal stays, so I personally would be fine with it matching "downwards" and hopefully leaving the various forms of SPG Platinum with better status level matches.



The problem I see is that the two programs don't have a similar scale for benefits based on status level.  Silver in Marriott is basically worthless and Gold in SPG has some value, mainly because of the room upgrade feature IMO.  The SPG Plat levels would be hard to equate Marriott and keep SPG loyals happy.  I think the low SPG Plat would have to be Mariott Gold, and the mid and top SPG Plat would be Marriott Plat.  

Redemption levels is the big problem I see.


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## Debbie118 (Mar 28, 2016)

Wrong placement sorry!


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## The Haileys (Mar 28, 2016)

Blurrgghh ... whatever. We're going to use up our cache of points as fast as we can. :annoyed:


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## vikingsholm (Mar 29, 2016)

I have a question for Starwood owners. We own Marriotts, and extensively use free nights on road trips to stay at Residence Inns, TownePlaces, etc. on the way to timeshares located a few days drive away.

I have absolutely no complaints about this part of the Marriott system - it's great to get all free stays enroute, and the quality of the rooms and properties are generally fine with us. It would be nice to add more locations via Sheraton/Starwood, but the quality of their units or their rewards plan is not too important to us.

The most important thing is that a kitchen with a full sized refrigerator be available in the unit, as we start out our multi-week timeshare trips with a carload of food and drinks and prefer to store that in a full refrigerator each night enroute to the timeshares.

So - do many of the Starwood hotel units that would be included in the rewards plan for free night stays have fully equipped kitchens? If so do they charge a reasonable amount of reward points for these types of units?

Thanks for any info on this....


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## SueDonJ (Mar 29, 2016)

vikingsholm said:


> I have a question for Starwood owners. We own Marriotts, and extensively use free nights on road trips to stay at Residence Inns, TownePlaces, etc. on the way to timeshares located a few days drive away.
> 
> I have absolutely no complaints about this part of the Marriott system - it's great to get all free stays enroute, and the quality of the rooms and properties are generally fine with us. It would be nice to add more locations via Sheraton/Starwood, but the quality of their units or their rewards plan is not too important to us.
> 
> ...



I think that this early in the process it's impossible to get the specific answers you're looking for.  Starwood is still entertaining offers and it's far from certain that Marriott is going to end up the winning suitor.  On top of that Marriott's CEO has been very clear that should Marriott win the bid, they don't know how the Marriott Rewards and SPG programs will integrate or how long it will take.

Although, I suppose you could at least learn right now which Starwood properties have full-size refrigerators?


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## blondietink (Mar 29, 2016)

The only Sheraton we have stayed at that had a refrigerator was in Plantation Florida and it only had a mini fridge.  I have looked at  and stayed at other Sheraton's and most do not have any refrigerator at all. They are hotels, not resorts.


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## okwiater (Mar 29, 2016)

The Element brand hotels have full size refrigerators.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 29, 2016)

vikingsholm said:


> I have a question for Starwood owners. We own Marriotts, and extensively use free nights on road trips to stay at Residence Inns, TownePlaces, etc. on the way to timeshares located a few days drive away.
> 
> I have absolutely no complaints about this part of the Marriott system - it's great to get all free stays enroute, and the quality of the rooms and properties are generally fine with us. It would be nice to add more locations via Sheraton/Starwood, but the quality of their units or their rewards plan is not too important to us.
> 
> ...



I think what you are asking is does Starwood have a similar brand to Residence Inns and TownePlace Suites? I am not aware that they do, but we don't frequent their chains very often.


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## vikingsholm (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes Dioxide, that's pretty much what I'm asking, since the Residence Inns and TownePlaces have the nice full sized kitchens. We often reserve studio sizes but get upgrades to one or two bedroom units with platinum status when we arrive. They're almost like mini timeshares. Free breakfasts too.

Not being very familiar with Starwood's hotels, I'll have to look into those Elements that were previously mentioned to see if they're comparable. Thanks for the input.

Of course, that's only if Marriott wins this bidding war.


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## JudyS (Mar 30, 2016)

vikingsholm said:


> Yes Dioxide, that's pretty much what I'm asking, since the Residence Inns and TownePlaces have the nice full sized kitchens. ...


I don't think Starwood has any brands similar to Residence Inn or TownePlace. Also, the Elements hotels are "boutique hotels" and I think are pretty pricey.


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## Henry M. (Mar 30, 2016)

Starwood doesn't have a line of suite hotels like Marriott does. I haven't stayed at an Elements hotel yet, but there are few of those.  All the other brands don't have kitchens.


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## okwiater (Mar 30, 2016)

JudyS said:


> I don't think Starwood has any brands similar to Residence Inn or TownePlace. Also, the Elements hotels are "boutique hotels" and I think are pretty pricey.



That's not accurate. They are "eco" hotels, and offer some studio, 1-, and 2-bedroom suites with kitchenettes. I have not found them to be pricey at all; some are category 3.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2016)

I just had a pleasant conversation with OwnerServices.

FWIW (and speculative) - looks like SVO/SVN will become VSE on May 1.
Don't expect much influence of ILG on VSE (independent - similar to Hyatt).
More TSs/Hotels (as combos) will be added to VSE (Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Poipu, and 2nd tower at Steamboat).
Also, SOs will be able to reserve these TS/Hotel combos.


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## Helios (Apr 6, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> I just had a pleasant conversation with OwnerServices.
> 
> FWIW (and speculative) - looks like SVO/SVN will become VSE on May 1.
> Don't expect much influence of ILG on VSE (independent - similar to Hyatt).
> ...



We've known of the TSs/Hotels for a while.  When do they come online...


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## dioxide45 (Apr 6, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> I just had a pleasant conversation with OwnerServices.
> 
> FWIW (and speculative) - looks like SVO/SVN will become VSE on May 1.
> Don't expect much influence of ILG on VSE (independent - similar to Hyatt).
> ...



I do wonder if ILG will put pressure on VSE to limit bulk banks in to RCI?


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2016)

moto x said:


> We've known of the TSs/Hotels for a while.  When do they come online...



I was reiterating and confirming information - as it can change.
I would imagine openings over the next 3-4 years depending on how much construction and restructuring needs to be done. 

The Elite service person I spoke with (for about 30 minutes) seemed to be very knowledgable.  I was calling about updating my account as it seems I have two II accounts in my SVO/SVN account because a WSJ deed I updated with Robin's apparently never made it to SVO Title (RIP John Faeth). We discussed multiple issues across SVO/SVN-VSE-II, SW and Marriott, systems, and resort usage - and reserving online (there have apparently been technical issues - duh).  They were familiar with nuances of the resorts and systems w/o the rosy sales picture.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 6, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I do wonder if ILG will put pressure on VSE to limit bulk banks in to RCI?



Did you mean II?  I do not anything about RCI except for a few SVO resorts can use RCI. I do not think there have been bulk deposits for a while - have there been?  I use my VOIs - or rent.  I will start doing more exchanges in 2-3 years when we can vacation full time.


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## DeniseM (Apr 6, 2016)

Yes - Some resorts are duel affiliated with II and RCI, and deposits are made to both.  If they renew the contract(s) with RCI, they will be obligated to make deposits.  I don't know when the contracts expire.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 6, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> Did you mean II?  I do not anything about RCI except for a few SVO resorts can use RCI. I do not think there have been bulk deposits for a while - have there been?  I use my VOIs - or rent.  I will start doing more exchanges in 2-3 years when we can vacation full time.





DeniseM said:


> Yes - Some resorts are duel affiliated with II and RCI, and deposits are made to both.  If they renew the contract(s) with RCI, they will be obligated to make deposits.  I don't know when the contracts expire.



If I recall correctly, I believe there were some bulk bank sightings reported where a lot of SDO weeks were deposited in to RCI just last year. There may have been some other resorts. I suspect this is covered by a contract with RCI. I wonder if the new ILG ownership will prevent a renewal of those contracts when they come up for renewal?


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## SMHarman (Apr 6, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> If I recall correctly, I believe there were some bulk bank sightings reported where a lot of SDO weeks were deposited in to RCI just last year. There may have been some other resorts. I suspect this is covered by a contract with RCI. I wonder if the new ILG ownership will prevent a renewal of those contracts when they come up for renewal?


And SBP. Seems RCI get weeks deposited before owners can even book. 

Has led to a couple of interesting threads so far this year. 
1. SBP can reserve their deeded week. One owner was told it was sold out
2. Sdo red week struggles to reserve next March at 12 month's.


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## DeniseM (Apr 8, 2016)

*Official Letter:  SPG & Marriott*

Just came in my email:



> Nearly five months ago we shared the news that Starwood Hotels & Resorts is joining with Marriott International to create the world’s biggest and best hotel company — with 5,500 hotels and resorts in more than 100 countries. Today we’re pleased to announce that the shareholders of each company have approved the merger.
> 
> Since the original announcement, our members have asked many questions about the future of Starwood Preferred Guest® (SPG®). Soon we will begin the long journey to integrate the very best of SPG and Marriott Rewards®. Through this process, your perspective will help guide these discussions as we consider the following:
> 
> ...



*PRESS RELEASE:* https://s1.q4cdn.com/483583335/files/doc_news/2016/04-08-Marriott-and-Starwood-Merger-Vote.pdf


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## SueDonJ (Apr 9, 2016)

FYI, letter today from Arne Sorenson to Marriott Rewards members, posted here in the Marriott forum.


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## SueDonJ (Apr 19, 2016)

FYI, Marriott announced today that they're integrating some SPG benefits in advance of the merger.  See Post #130 in this thread in the Marriott forum.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 19, 2016)

Are they really integrating them or just creating new benefits in MR that are the same as what exists in SPG? This would be just like a competitor adding the same benefit to their program?


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## YYJMSP (Apr 21, 2016)

*ILG shareholder vote*

Looks like it's official -- ILG's shareholders voted in favour of buying/merging VSE, with an expected completion of Apr 30th.

ILG Press Release


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## lizap (Apr 21, 2016)

If ILG's acquisition of Hyatt is any indication, I don't expect any significant changes anytime soon.




YYJMSP said:


> Looks like it's official -- ILG's shareholders voted in favour of buying/merging VSE, with an expected completion of Apr 30th.
> 
> ILG Press Release


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## MULTIZ321 (Sep 26, 2016)

Marriott's Sorenson on Travel, Terrorism, Technology, Politicians, Starwood and the Future - by Doug Gollan/ Lifestyle/ Forbes/ forbes.com

"In one of his first public engagements since its merger with Starwood Hotels & Resorts closed last week, Marriott International President & CEO Arne Sorenson spent nearly an hour speaking to travel agents in a wide ranging discussion at a conference here in Reno earlier today.

While it now counts 1.1 million rooms, with over 370,000 more under development, and some 5,500 hotels globally, Sorenson downplayed any concerns about the behemoth using its expanded girth to raise prices. Speaking at the ASTA (American Society of Travel Agents) Global Convention, he said analogies to consolidation in the airline industry are incorrect. He noted, while airlines own their own planes and set their fares, in the hotel industry franchisees set prices for their hotels, so even if Marriott controls 15 percent of U.S. hotel rooms, it only controls rates for about five percent. He said the goal of the merger is to use its clout to increase occupancy...."





Arne M. Sorenson, president and CEO of Marriott International speaks onstage at the American Magazine Media Conference at Grand Hyatt New York on February 2, 2016 in New York City. (Photo by Larry Busacca/Getty Images for Time Inc)


Richard


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## vistana101 (Sep 27, 2016)

It is interesting that any points from timeshares cannot be transferred to Marriott or vice versa...hope that isn't a clue of what's to happen in the future.


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## okwiater (Sep 27, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> It is interesting that any points from timeshares cannot be transferred to Marriott or vice versa...hope that isn't a clue of what's to happen in the future.



A combined loyalty program is likely to be launched in 2018, and Vistana's agreement guarantees TS owners access to any such replacement program. Once a single unified program is launched I don't see how or why Vistana-derived hotel points could be restricted.


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## The Haileys (Sep 27, 2016)

okwiater said:


> A combined loyalty program is likely to be launched in 2018, and Vistana's agreement guarantees TS owners access to any such replacement program. Once a single unified program is launched I don't see how or why Vistana-derived hotel points could be restricted.



What is the definition of TS derived points? Converted StarOptions? Bonus points for purchase of TS? Points for attending presentations or owner updates? Points earned from on-site spending while using TS? Point packages purchased with offer for new TS owners? 

And then, how do they determine the origin of each point, especially after redemptions and mixed methods of earning??


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## DeniseM (Sep 27, 2016)

TS derived points = Starpoints from converting your timeshare to Starpoints.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 27, 2016)

okwiater said:


> A combined loyalty program is likely to be launched in 2018, and Vistana's agreement guarantees TS owners access to any such replacement program. Once a single unified program is launched I don't see how or why Vistana-derived hotel points could be restricted.



Really?  Are you sure?  Where is that written?  Is this only for developer-purchased properties with Staroptions?


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## SueDonJ (Sep 27, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> It is interesting that any points from timeshares cannot be transferred to Marriott or vice versa...hope that isn't a clue of what's to happen in the future.





The Haileys said:


> What is the definition of TS derived points? Converted StarOptions? Bonus points for purchase of TS? Points for attending presentations or owner updates? Points earned from on-site spending while using TS? Point packages purchased with offer for new TS owners?
> 
> And then, how do they determine the origin of each point, especially after redemptions and mixed methods of earning??





DeniseM said:


> TS derived points = Starpoints from converting your timeshare to Starpoints.



Marriott docs in the timeshare and hotel companies have always stated a restriction that MRP (Marriott Rewards Points) derived from exchanging Weeks* cannot be used to book redemption stays at the timeshare properties.  For what it's worth they've never enforced that restriction, and we don't know if that's because they're not able to track MRP origins or if that's simply how they've chosen to operate.

Going forward it will be interesting to see how they approach it because Marriott is saying that sometime during 2018 they'll be more fully integrating the SPG and MR programs.  I'm wondering if in the interim they'll be exploring an external affiliation with VSE, or, if Starpoints from VSE timeshares will always be on the outside looking in.  If that's the case then I would expect them to start enforcing the existing restriction for Marriott timeshare owners.

*It's worth noting (but I'm trying not to confuse the issue any more than it already is!) that the only MVW Weeks that can be exchanged for MRP are those purchased direct or enrolled in the Destination Club timeshare points program.


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## okwiater (Sep 27, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Really?  Are you sure?  Where is that written?  Is this only for developer-purchased properties with Staroptions?



It's written in the affiliation agreement between Vistana and SPG that Vistana owners are paying millions of dollars annually to maintain.


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## YYJMSP (Sep 27, 2016)

okwiater said:


> It's written in the affiliation agreement between Vistana and SPG that Vistana owners are paying millions of dollars annually to maintain.





The problem with agreements is that there is always some kind of cancellation clause, especially when one of the parties ceases to exist.



Does anyone have the actual agreement text?


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## YYJMSP (Sep 27, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> Marriott docs in the timeshare and hotel companies have always stated a restriction that MRP (Marriott Rewards Points) derived from exchanging Weeks* cannot be used to book redemption stays at the timeshare properties.  For what it's worth they've never enforced that restriction, and we don't know if that's because they're not able to track MRP origins or if that's simply how they've chosen to operate.





This is also the case with VSE to SPG.  You are restricted from using VSE ownership converted points from booking back at a VSE property.



In my experience, there are ways to muddle the origin of the points if you earned some points from elsewhere, or even make it lose the origin of the points completely.


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## vistana101 (Sep 28, 2016)

I have posted the text before...here are a few key points from the agreement (bolding mine).

The general agreement:



> In connection with the License Agreement, Starwood and its affiliate, Preferred Guest, Inc., and Vistana will enter into the SPG Affiliation Agreement, which will provide for the continued participation of Vistana, the Westin®, Sheraton®, St. Regis® and The Luxury Collection®, branded properties and certain licensed unbranded vacation ownership properties in Starwood's Starwood Preferred Guest® loyalty program.* The SPG Affiliation Agreement permits Vistana and its affiliates to offer Starpoints® to SPG Members as an incentive upon purchase of a Vistana vacation ownership property, for conversion of a licensed vacation ownership interest or property*...



And a part specifically about SPG being merged into another program:



> Merger of Programs. In the event the SPG Program is combined with or becomes part of another Loyalty Program, Starwood shall treat Owners who hold Starpoints in a manner consistent with other SPG Members other than with respect to the rights described in Sections 4(a) and 6(a).



Note that Section 4(a) deals with 6 year expiration of starpoints, and 6(a) deals with elite status offerings....

Elite Status (I wonder how this will end up with Marriott):



> a)Elite Offerings. Vistana may provide (i) *Gold Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner of a Licensed Vacation Ownership Property* (other than Specified Fractional Properties) or a Licensed Unbranded Property until such Owner is no longer an Owner of such Vacation Ownership Property; (ii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any initial purchaser of fractional units at Specified Fractional Properties during such initial purchaser’s term of ownership of such fractional unit; and (iii) *Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner who is a Five Star Elite member *(as defined in the Vistana Specific Use SOP) until such Owner is no longer an Owner of Licensed Vacation Ownership Properties or Licensed Unbranded Properties or fails to meet the Five Star Elite member requirements which are set forth in the Vistana Specific Use SOP (collectively, the “Elite Offerings”).



My main concerns are how the elite status will work with the new program, as well as the final point conversion rate. Hoping that the benefit isn't devalued even more!!

Question for Marriott timeshare owners: How are your points conversions? (How many points do you get-good value?)


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## icydog (Sep 28, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> I have posted the text before...here are a few key points from the agreement (bolding mine).
> 
> The general agreement:
> 
> ...



First off, what is Five Star Elite Status? 

The conversion rate is 3:1 Marriott to SPG OR 1 Starpoint = 3 Marriott Reward points. 

If you attained Gold Status with SPG by buying directly from the developer you will be Gold Status with Mariott.  No restrictions.  Look at my post that should explain things 

The best use of MRP is in Leisure Travel Packages.  I'm not sure if Vistana has the same thing.  As a MVCI owner you can buy a package that includes a five night, or seven night, stay in various Marriott hotel categories--- and also includes Frequent Flyer Miles. I took my family to Puerto Rico using this package.  We all flew first class and stayed in oceanfront rooms while at the resort.  And since I was an Elite member I got 30% off my food and drinks in the main dining room.  When I traveled to Europe I did the same first class type flights and we were able to eat and drink all day in the lounges.


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## DeniseM (Sep 28, 2016)

icydog said:


> First off, what is Five Star Elite Status?



This is a status level of Vistana timeshare ownership - it means that you own at least 649,000 _developer_ Staroptions.  (Either purchased from the developer or re-qualified by the developer.)

For comparison - a standard 2 bdm. at the Maui Resorts is 148,100 Staroptions.

The way this relates to SPG HOTEL status, is that if you are Vistana TIMESHARE 5 Star Elite, you automatically get SPG HOTEL Platinum status (as long as you own the required number of Staroptions.)


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## vistana101 (Sep 28, 2016)

icydog said:


> First off, what is Five Star Elite Status?
> 
> The conversion rate is 3:1 Marriott to SPG OR 1 Starpoint = 3 Marriott Reward points.
> 
> If you attained Gold Status with SPG by buying directly from the developer you will be Gold Status with Mariott.  No restrictions.  Look at my post that should explain things



Yes this is the current conversion rate and status matching, but it is all temporary until a new program is created and everything officially merges in 2018. I wonder at that point what the new program will look like and how our SPG points/status will fit into the new program.


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## DavidnRobin (Sep 28, 2016)

One of the best pieces of advice comes from FlyerTalk - take advantage while you can, and don't store points (they devaluate relatively quickly).  It appears that transferring to Marriott and using quickly may offer best value (if you are okay w/ Marriott).  The upside for us is the huge expansion of hotel choices.


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## vistana101 (Sep 28, 2016)

Yes-there is particular value in converting to Marriott points and redeeming at the higher end resorts. The highest category Marriott will cost 15,000 starpoints, while the highest category Ritz will cost about 23,000 starpoints, which is great in comparison to 35,000 points for the highest SPG property in peak season (excluding the high point values for all suite properties).


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## canesfan (Sep 28, 2016)

vistana101 said:


> Yes-there is particular value in converting to Marriott points and redeeming at the higher end resorts. The highest category Marriott will cost 15,000 starpoints, while the highest category Ritz will cost about 23,000 starpoints, which is great in comparison to 35,000 points for the highest SPG property in peak season (excluding the high point values for all suite properties).





Where are you staying? My Marriott stays cost me 30k and a JW 35k per night and I don't consider them outstanding places or locations.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 28, 2016)

canesfan said:


> Where are you staying? My Marriott stays cost me 30k and a JW 35k per night and I don't consider them outstanding places or locations.



15,000 Starpionts=45,000 MRP


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## canesfan (Sep 28, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> 15,000 Starpionts=45,000 MRP





Ah- I was having a moment. I totally skipped over the SP in the sentence. 
I still think using MRs at SPG hotels are the way to go, if you have the points. Which we do.


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## The Haileys (Sep 29, 2016)

I think it may be somewhat dependent on the location. I am point-pricing hotels in Honolulu and on the Big Island, and I am finding that Marriotts are by far the better value there. I'm looking at the Waikiki Beach Marriott for 160K MR or 53.3K SP for a city view for 5 nights. Compare to Sheraton Waikiki at 80K SP for 5 nights. (Both are 5th night free) 

On the Big Island, the price points are closer. The Sheraton Kona is 40K SP for 5 nights, and the Courtyard is 120K MR (40K SP), so same point-price for both. But up the road a ways, a a category higher is the Waikoloa Ocean Resort, starting at 140K MR (46.6 SP) for garden view, but upgrading with points is possible, up to 240K for OF, which is 80K SP. We're pretty sure we're going to book a King corner room (larger) with partial OV for 190K MR (63.3K SP). 

On Maui, both the Sheraton and Westin are 16K per night. The Ritz is 60K MR per night, or 20K SP. Wailea Beach and Residence Inn are 40K MR per night, or 13.3K SP. 

Geez ... Marriott is a bargain in Hawaii!


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## dspring (Sep 29, 2016)

I agree, there are some nice Marriott options in Hawaii and Northern California where I live. Ritz is a deal compared to St Regis.  Starwood inflated all the SF hotels to 20k points.

SPG upgrades for Platinum are pretty nice.  Does anyone have experience with Marriott Platinum upgrades?


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