# Honest Marriott Feedback - Stay Away from Marriott



## Chase (Feb 22, 2015)

I've been an owner of a platinum mountainside unit for around 6-7 years. I have a family with 3 young children.  I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years.

I've come to the conclusion that Marriott has completely trashed their program.  It is virtually impossible to book anything of value even 13 months out (good luck in a 10 month window!) unless you have interest in Orlando or like resorts in the off season.  Add this to working around school holiday schedules...and it's time to realize that Marriott is a bad timeshare product for families.  Maybe if you are retired and have a ton of schedule flexibility....but if you have a job and kids in school....the program is pretty much a disaster.

I find it unconcionable that you can charge someone $40-$60k for a product and then submit them to the types of games required to successfully use it.  I talked to an agent today and asked what tips they would have to break my losing streak of finding availability. They actually with a straight face recommended having two people calling simultaneously while a third worked the computer at 9am on days when they release inventory. No jokes. This is what the company itself recommends. 

It's hard to believe the Marriott brand has come to this.  It's become just another Mexico-like timeshare racket. 

I wouldn't describe myself as a particularly fussy or impatient person.  It actually took me 7-8 years to finally fess up to myself that this purchase was a mistake.  I now think it's worth letting others know before they make the same mistake. 

So....if you are on this board because you are trying to decide whether to jump into Marriott or not....my honest recommendation is don't make this mistake. Put your money to use elsewhere. Rent weeks from someone who fell for the scam. Or go to VRBO and look at rentals...there are awesome options available for families there. 

But don't buy a Marriott timeshare. Honestly. You will regret it.

Sad customer.


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## StevenTing (Feb 22, 2015)

Without knowing all of your details, I've had the opposite experience. 

Where are you trying to book?  Are you trying to use your week or points?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 22, 2015)

What specifically are you having difficulty booking?  There are some times and locations that are difficult even for multiple week owners at that specific resort to book.  But there is a lot between not getting one of those type weeks (like Week 52 in an Ocean Front Aruba) and nothing but Orlando is available.


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## bazzap (Feb 22, 2015)

I am really sorry to hear you are so sad.
Am I totally happy with MVC - no.
Do I believe it is easy to get what you really want - probably not.
However, with plenty of planning and early requests do we get what we want - mostly yes.
This year, with home weeks, II exchange and getaway weeks, and a few extra days cash bookings we will enjoy almost 11 weeks in MVC resorts around the world.
I sure wish the process was a whole lot easier, but the end result is well worth it for us.


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## ilene13 (Feb 22, 2015)

We bought our first timeshare in 1980-- not a Marriott because they were not in the business.  Our children were very young and up until 6 months ago I was an educator.  Over the years we bought and sold many timeshares-- we were at a high of 10 weeks and now we own 7 weeks.  4 of them are Marriott.  We exchanged a lot in our early years, but many of the properties were not as nice as the ones we owned.  The one decision we made was to own units and in the case of Marriott seasons when and where we wanted to be.  We never owned any units just to trade.  We love Mexico and the Carribean and we had to travel during high season that is what influenced our timeshare purchases.  Marriott is NOT a bad company but if you must travel during high seasons you will not necessarily exchange into certain properties as owners are using them.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 22, 2015)

StevenTing said:


> Without knowing all of your details, I've had the opposite experience.
> 
> Where are you trying to book?  Are you trying to use your week or points?



It would also be good to know if they are also putting in waitlist requests, or just looking for instant availability. It seems that if you put in a waitlist fairly far out, most have been successful.


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## mjm1 (Feb 22, 2015)

Chase, I am sorry to hear that your ownership hasn't worked out as well as you had hoped. 

When bought our first timeshare in 1985 shortly after getting married. We bought another one in 1987. We shouldn't have bought the first one due to location, season and lack of quality, but we were young and didn't know better. The second one was better. Over the years we learned how to use them to our best advantage and had many many years of nice vacations with our kids. They are now grown and out of the house. 

We traded into Marriott resorts many times and almost bought from the developer, but resisted. Finally, we bought resale and sold our original resorts, because we liked the quality and locations offered by Marriott. We continue to enjoy our Marriott ownership and even bought some Trust points resale. Is the program perfect? Not by a long shot. But we have learned the system and have continued to enjoy our vacation experiences. Other systems have their pluses and minuses as well.

I wish you and your family the best in whatever you decide to do with your ownership. Timesharing isn't for everyone, but we like the fact that we have to plan our trips well in advance and make sure we take them. May you find the best vacationing experience that works for you and your family.

Cheers.

Mike


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## live4life (Feb 22, 2015)

Hey Chase... I too felt the way you do now back in July 2010 when I first purchased a Marriott unit. Similar to you I have an "infield" of school aged children and attempted to either go to my home resort (then it was at Beach Place Platinum) or tried to trade during high demand seasons (the trades were NOT marriott and were horrible). I then made (my) mistake of purchasing Destination Points (3k to be exact) and quickly learned a few things within a year and a half: for me, my home resort was changing- the setting was not family-like... it was more adult like [shame on me for purchasing it], the destination's program requires a ton of points (13k+) to even attempt to get into waterfront properties during NY school vacations in the winter, and lastly it brought me to a point of either re-shifting my position of TSharing or getting out of the program altogether. In essence, I purchased Marriott TS from non-marriott sales people where I wanted to go to in seasons that would give me 13 month access, sold both my BeachPlace and destination points, and have received each time for the last few years EVERY reservation I wanted 13 months out- including President's week, Easter/Passoever, plus summers. *And so, I agree with your position of getting out if you can only use your one unit*; _however, if you enjoy your home resort and can afford 1 or more non-Marriott salesperson purchases of Marriott TShares of  another Marriott resort within the time/season that you need to allow you to book 13 mos out , then you might see a change in your luck._ The additional week(s) can either be rented out, re-booked, used, or deposited into II. Regarding the DP, I cannot advocate purchasing the points from Marriott to get you to the 13 month reservation level (post the April level designations); however, if you need to go the points route, you can rent the difference of what you need to get you there on a yearly basis- though I do not find this both cost effective in the long run nor a good strategy as more DP owners will be achieving the 13 month window reservations beginning in April and may place you back where your frustrations originally began.

And so, perhaps my comments are now directed more to those Tuggers who are on the fence about purchasing than to the OP: my crude analysis these last few years reflect that if one enjoys particular resorts of their liking and are willing to go there annually, then obtain those weeks/seasons  that can get you there- Marriott is a great product for this type of TS; otherwise, those who own 1 week or too few points will have the MOST difficult time getting school vacation weeks at the highest demand resorts.



Good luck


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 22, 2015)

Make certain the second one is the same season.

As for me, after my travails with a single red (platinum) season week at Royal Palms, i chose to exit the Marriott system. The places are excellent, but the system is not for single week owners. A legacy single week owner is a last class citizen...

I'm closing on a Hilton BIg Island Bay Club penthouse. We'll see how that system comes out...


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## l0410z (Feb 22, 2015)

There are a lot of dynamics that go into II inventory.  You can often find more and more rentals on websites (like Redweek and tug to name a few)  for peak seasons.  I think this has to have an impact on II inventory.  I never heard of Redweek until 4 years ago until  we bumped into friends in Aruba.  We never knew they owned a timeshare and it turns out they didn't. They rented from Redweek.  Since learning of it, I rented one of my units for the last 4 years.  The unit I recently purchased is up for rent and if I can't rent it, I will deposit it just before it loses the trading power or use it. The unit I normally rent,I had rented 2 days after posting it.  May buy points with it for non prime time use or go to club med.  

Marriott has control of the trading rules but has no control of inventory.  Also, the more people are frustrated with trading, the more they can turn to rentals instead of giving it up.


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## tschwa2 (Feb 22, 2015)

I love the Marriott resorts that I have been to but they really aren't in locations I want to travel to that often.  The only regular scheduled travel I do into a Marriott Vacation Club is every other year to SC.  Everywhere else is every 2-4 years combined.  I have bought 4 Marriott units and sold 3.  I only have an EOY lock off.  It suits my needs but is a little pricey for MF combined with the lock off fee.  But I need priority so what can you do.  I think I am net $0 into the purchases after the sales.  So basically just MF's, lock off fee, exchange fee and eplus for me.  I already have a II account so no extra toward that.

The only single system that seems to have multiple locations that I want to travel to annually is Wyndham but their MF's fee structure makes it unappealing to me so I rent, stay elsewhere, or exchange into with cheapy RCI traders.


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## Zac495 (Feb 22, 2015)

I love Marriotts but owning stopped working for me.
Now I rent. I tried to find a rental on TUG first - but ended up with Redweek owner this year. For slightly more than the maintenance fee, I get what I want - including the view I want - with no hassle.


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## Fairwinds (Feb 22, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Make certain the second one is the same season.
> 
> As for me, after my travails with a single red (platinum) season week at Royal Palms, i chose to exit the Marriott system. The places are excellent, but the system is not for single week owners. A legacy single week owner is a last class citizen...
> 
> I'm closing on a Hilton BIg Island Bay Club penthouse. We'll see how that system comes out...



I suspect there is no comparison between a Royal Palms week and a Hilton Hawaii week, especially "penthouse". But there is no comparison between Royal Palms and Marriott Hawaii resorts when comparing trading power or renting potential. good luck with your new week.


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## EducatedConsumer (Feb 22, 2015)

Chase said:


> I've been an owner of a platinum mountainside unit for around 6-7 years. I have a family with 3 young children.  I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that Marriott has completely trashed their program.  It is virtually impossible to book anything of value even 13 months out (good luck in a 10 month window!) unless you have interest in Orlando or like resorts in the off season.  Add this to working around school holiday schedules...and it's time to realize that Marriott is a bad timeshare product for families.  Maybe if you are retired and have a ton of schedule flexibility....but if you have a job and kids in school....the program is pretty much a disaster.
> 
> ...




In short, I think you are right, in my opinion, Marriott Vacation Club's reservation infrastructure sucks. 

We have been multiple week Marriott Owners for 25 years, and have observed a steady decline in our ability to make reservations, which I believe is based on (1) MVC salespeople creating phenomena (e.g. selling rental income potential by suggesting that buyers reserve prime weeks and rent them) that are not in the best interest of the general population of MVC owners, (2) MVC's reservation system creating a funnel effect, with demand on the widest side of the funnel, and supply, on the narrowest side of the funnel, (3) "Reservation Paralysis," a phenomena that occurs on the first day and first 30 minutes of the day that a reservations period opens up, (4) MVC's continued failure to deliver on a website that supports reservations at the 13 month window for week's owners (further supported by MVC's own admission that their attention and focus in on their points system, not weeks system), and (5) MVC's inherent conflict of interest, of deriving their greatest profit from sales and NOT SERVICE, hence, all attention on selling points, and more points, at the expense of a failed reservation infrastructure.

Ironically, our experience at MVC resorts is almost always a favorable one, other than Marriott's reluctance to hold tight on Marriott brand standards, and to allow HOA's to drift too far away from Marriott's core, brand standards (the same thing that occurs, now more than ever, between Marriott, as "the brand," and hotel owners. MVC used to buy high quality furnishings and fixtures, that seems to have gone by the waist-side, as well. 

To be honest, MVC's reservation process has gotten so ridiculous, that if we could sell our weeks for a reasonable price, we'd sell them and run. Ironically, we've not had the same (awful) experience, with Disney Vacation Club or Club Intrawest (same product designers).


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## Chase (Feb 22, 2015)

The scary thing is that the only piece of advice (other than to dump the unit) appears to be to buy a 2nd platinum unit resale and book 13 months out.  Sounds like throwing good money after bad.  But here are some questions:

-- does the second week need to be at the same resort (ie mountainside) or just platinum?

-- when you book 13 months out, I think the weeks reservations have to be back to back. So I guess I trade the week I wouldn't want on interval or rent it out to cover the maintenance fees?

-- for those that play this approach...do you always have good luck getting the week you are looking for in your home resort?

-- if you are booking them back to back, isn't the second week essentially 13 months and a week out?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 23, 2015)

The second week doesn't have to be at the same resort and it doesn't even have to be platinum it just has to be something that can be booked consecutively.  So a silver or gold week in Williamsburg could work with a platinum ski week.

I am not suggesting you run out and buy another week just saying that is how it works.  Problem is you are going to find owners with 6 or 10 weeks with lockoffs who are willing to string together long chains of weeks. So at some point if you only want one week it isn't going to work to try to keep up with those that want 4-10 weeks.  Some owners in places like Aruba book 8-10 weeks so the final weeks might be 16 months in advance by the time they use some lockoffs.


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## VacationForever (Feb 23, 2015)

Chase said:


> The scary thing is that the only piece of advice (other than to dump the unit) appears to be to buy a 2nd platinum unit resale and book 13 months out.  Sounds like throwing good money after bad.  But here are some questions:
> 
> -- does the second week need to be at the same resort (ie mountainside) or just platinum?
> The second week can be at any resort but must be in the same period of time.  As you know seasons at different resorts vary.
> ...



See reply inline.


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## Chase (Feb 23, 2015)

Pretty interesting.  Two more questions:

-- does anyone out there have any experience of getting a platinum week at mountainside 13 months out (ie in ski season)?

-- if I was to try this angle and add onto my platinum mountainside unit with a resale unit, does anyone have any ideas what location the cheapest 2nd unit would be in the resale market that had a calendar that lined up with Marriott Mountainside's platinum season?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 23, 2015)

The least expensive lockoffs are probably going to be Manor Club Sequel Silver (weeks 1-8) Gold (9-12, Willow Ridge Silver (1-9) Gold (10-19) or Grande Vista Platinum (1-17).  While the platinum in Orlando would cost a little more upfront it would probably give you better trading power deposited into II than a Gold or Silver in Williamsburg or Branson.


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## EducatedConsumer (Feb 23, 2015)

Chase said:


> Pretty interesting.  Two more questions:
> 
> -- does anyone out there have any experience of getting a platinum week at mountainside 13 months out (ie in ski season)?
> 
> -- if I was to try this angle and add onto my platinum mountainside unit with a resale unit, does anyone have any ideas what location the cheapest 2nd unit would be in the resale market that had a calendar that lined up with Marriott Mountainside's platinum season?



In my opinion, all you are going to do by adding another week is sustain your misery.

Consider this advice: Sell your week. Run. Don't look back, because its ugly.

13 week bookings are a nightmare. 50% of Marriott's inventory pool is available to multiple week owners 13 months in advance  of their first check-in week. So, what many owners do, is begin their 13 month bookings, 16, 15, or 14 months in advance (13 months in advance of their first check-in date). So, what will you get at 13 months?......scraps, if there are any left.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Feb 23, 2015)

Agreed. We are a DC points owner (3500 points) and were lucky to get a Frenchman's Cove (St. Thomas) 12 months out for Christmas day-New Years day 2015 by calling in at 9:01am the day after Christmas 2014.  I look at this as a fluke.  

We are at the mercy of the school vacation schedule and will be for many years (Christmas-New Years, President's Week and Spring [Easter/Passover break] and the week prior to labor day.......  The agent said that there would be zero chance getting Aruba over Christmas or President's week and that she was surprised that the St. Thomas was even available.

For somebody at our level traveling during the above periods I think that for the most part we are going to need to focus on Orlando with an occasional trip out west but that getting the island properties are near impossible.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 23, 2015)

Chase said:


> Pretty interesting.  Two more questions:
> 
> -- does anyone out there have any experience of getting a platinum week at mountainside 13 months out (ie in ski season)?
> 
> -- if I was to try this angle and add onto my platinum mountainside unit with a resale unit, does anyone have any ideas what location the cheapest 2nd unit would be in the resale market that had a calendar that lined up with Marriott Mountainside's platinum season?



If you are interested in low up-front costs, you might consider one of the Palms in Orlando. There is no Right Of First Refusal on the Palms..

Not being a trader, I have no idea about their trading potential. Others might chime in...

Chase, the original concept for timeshares was to be able to have a vacation at a particular at a particular time, year after year. But people who wanted that were a very small demographic. In order to increase sales (and the money in timeshares for the companies was in sales, not maintenance fees) more flexible arraignments were introduced, increasing the customer demographic. Marriott has so increased the demographic that the single week, use the home resort year after year, owner is the lowest man on the totem pole, as to getting reservations. We get the leftovers, and there is no recourse as a single week owner...Your choice is to buy more in the after market, to be able to compete with the multiple week owners, or try to switch to a more home friendly company.

Which is why I'm selling my Marriotts and buying a Hilton. Hilton's reservation methods are vastly superior, <for a user of his/her home resort>, than Marriott. How good, I hope to find out in several months...


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## Quilter (Feb 23, 2015)

We have 8 weeks.   Purchased 6 weeks directly from Marriott.  The last 2 were the highest in price and have the lowest exchange for DC points.   That was disappointing.   I considered selling for a loss.   But they were worth more than the maintenance fees as renters and traders.  

From what I've heard Mountainside platinum gets a decent amount of points.
Have you considered partnering with a multi week owner who sells points?  There are many on vacationexchange.com.    You could transfer your points to them and if you also rented from them they could make available reservations for you.   They also get -60 day discounts for reservations.   It's worth a try for a year.   

I looked on redweek.   Mountainside had good amount of completed rentals regardless of date.  You could reserve and rent a week and then use your recovered maintenance fees and bonus for something like this:

http://www.fernandezbayvillage.com

Sorry you are so discouraged.   The suggestions from MVC reps, while the stupid reality, are like salt in the wound.   Wash it out, shake it off.  You may yet find a way to utilize your ownership.


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## SeaDoc (Feb 23, 2015)

Chase said:


> I've been an owner of a platinum mountainside unit for around 6-7 years. I have a family with 3 young children.  I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that Marriott has completely trashed their program.  It is virtually impossible to book anything of value even 13 months out (good luck in a 10 month window!) unless you have interest in Orlando or like resorts in the off season.  Add this to working around school holiday schedules...and it's time to realize that Marriott is a bad timeshare product for families.  Maybe if you are retired and have a ton of schedule flexibility....but if you have a job and kids in school....the program is pretty much a disaster.
> 
> ...


I have no doubt you are still in the old system requiring II to do your trades.  If you would upgrade to the new system using points you will find a totally different response.  My two plat weeks in Newport never got me summer (my season), yet with points I can get summer 2015 right now - availability is extremely strong for point users because the majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties.  Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore, thus your frustration...


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## bazzap (Feb 23, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> I have no doubt you are still in the old system requiring II to do your trades.  If you would upgrade to the new system using points you will find a totally different response.  My two plat weeks in Newport never got me summer (my season), yet with points I can get summer 2015 right now - availability is extremely strong for point users because the majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties.  Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore, thus your frustration...


I am very pleased you are getting the weeks you want with Points.
I just do not believe though that either
The majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties. 
or
Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore
I have seen absolutely no evidence to support this, apart from some MVC "sales speak"
I get the impression that take up is still a minority of owners, but I would be interested to see actual numbers to the contrary.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 23, 2015)

Chase said:


> I've been an owner of a platinum mountainside unit for around 6-7 years. I have a family with 3 young children.  I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that Marriott has completely trashed their program.  It is virtually impossible to book anything of value even 13 months out (good luck in a 10 month window!) unless you have interest in Orlando or like resorts in the off season.  Add this to working around school holiday schedules...and it's time to realize that Marriott is a bad timeshare product for families.  Maybe if you are retired and have a ton of schedule flexibility....but if you have a job and kids in school....the program is pretty much a disaster.
> 
> ...



Chase, availability certainly is a factor in the DC Points program as it is in every floating timeshare system.  The TUG mantra has always been, "try to reserve your desired intervals the minute the applicable Reservation Windows open," but as you're finding there's no guarantee of success.  In fact we're finding that when we're trying to use the 13-mos window with DC Points, the inventory doesn't always become available immediately but is released instead sometime before the corresponding 12-mos window opens.  It's worthwhile for you to keep trying during that interim.  Also, as others have said, we are meeting with some success using the DC Waitlist but again, that doesn't result in an immediate reservation as far out as possible.

If you tell us exactly what you own we'll be able to help you further.  It's awful to be unhappy about your timeshare, and our aim is to tell you how to make it as right as possible (rather than tell you what you're doing wrong.)



SeaDoc said:


> I have no doubt you are still in the old system requiring II to do your trades. If you would upgrade to the new system using points you will find a totally different response.  My two plat weeks in Newport never got me summer (my season), yet with points I can get summer 2015 right now - availability is extremely strong for point users because the majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties.  Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore, thus your frustration...



Why are you assuming with "no doubt" that he's trying to use his Week in II?  It seems you have an agenda to push Marriott's DC Points program especially  considering that the OP began this thread by saying, "I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years," and then continued by saying that the 13-mos Reservation Window isn't working for him.  (The 13-mos window isn't available to a single Week Owner but would be to somebody who has enrolled a high-Points-value Week.  I'm guessing he owns either a Plat Plus fixed Mountainside week or has purchased Trust Points in addition to his enrolled Week, but even those guesses haven't been confirmed by the OP.)

Do you have the numbers to back up your claims as to the number of Weeks Owners who have enrolled and are converting those Weeks to DC Points?  Or the supposed decline in the number of Weeks being deposited to II for exchange?  If so we'd love for you to share them.  If not, it doesn't seem correct for you to say those things as if they're useful facts.


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## MALC9990 (Feb 23, 2015)

EducatedConsumer said:


> In short, I think you are right, in my opinion, Marriott Vacation Club's reservation infrastructure sucks.
> 
> We have been multiple week Marriott Owners for 25 years, and have observed a steady decline in our ability to make reservations, which I believe is based on (1) MVC salespeople creating phenomena (e.g. selling rental income potential by suggesting that buyers reserve prime weeks and rent them) that are not in the best interest of the general population of MVC owners, (2) MVC's reservation system creating a funnel effect, with demand on the widest side of the funnel, and supply, on the narrowest side of the funnel, (3) "Reservation Paralysis," a phenomena that occurs on the first day and first 30 minutes of the day that a reservations period opens up, (4) MVC's continued failure to deliver on a website that supports reservations at the 13 month window for week's owners (further supported by MVC's own admission that their attention and focus in on their points system, not weeks system), and (5) MVC's inherent conflict of interest, of deriving their greatest profit from sales and NOT SERVICE, hence, all attention on selling points, and more points, at the expense of a failed reservation infrastructure.
> 
> ...



So how would we change the reservation system? Lets assume that first we change it so that 13 month multiple week reservations can be made online. That ought to be a priority for the MVCI IT department . But what then? Even with online reservations being available, at peak times when everyone is trying to get those high demand, high season weeks for school holidays, there will be other issues. The WEB site could not be economically sized with enough power to handle the peak traffic and so instead of phone queues there would be slow response or site failure issues.

So perhaps a fundamental shift in thinking is required. One complaint I've seen many times here is that the lowly 2 week owner is shut out by owners with many more weeks who book 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 consecutive weeks at a time and so book 14 or 15 or even 16 months in advance for the end of their string of weeks. Well perhaps there should be a limit on the number of weeks one can book at a time - let me suggest 3 as a max and then when the time comes round an owner wanting more than 3 consecutive weeks could book another three and so on.

This would undoubtedly annoy those owners with lots of weeks but they are probably few in total number when compared to the total ownership base. So the number of annoyed owners would be low - certainly much lower than the number of annoyed owners that they have on this issue today.

Now why did I choose three rather than say 2 or 4? Well for purely selfish reasons since I never book more than 3 consecutive weeks at any of my resorts. For the one where I own 4 weeks in the same season, the time of year I like to visit only has 3 weeks in my season at that time. The other resort where I own multiple weeks -I own three weeks in the plat season, so I can only book 3 weeks anyway. So, as I said - purely selfish reasons for selecting 3. Perhaps 2 or 4 would be better.

So - how would other Tuggers improve the reservation system?


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 23, 2015)

MALC9990 said:


> So how would we change the reservation system? Lets assume that first we change it so that 13 month multiple week reservations can be made online. That ought to be a priority for the MVCI IT department . But what then? Even with online reservations being available, at peak times when everyone is trying to get those high demand, high season weeks for school holidays, there will be other issues. The WEB site could not be economically sized with enough power to handle the peak traffic and so instead of phone queues there would be slow response or site failure issues.
> 
> So perhaps a fundamental shift in thinking is required. One complaint I've seen many times here is that the lowly 2 week owner is shut out by owners with many more weeks who book 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 consecutive weeks at a time and so book 14 or 15 or even 16 months in advance for the end of their string of weeks. Well perhaps there should be a limit on the number of weeks one can book at a time - let me suggest 3 as a max and then when the time comes round an owner wanting more than 3 consecutive weeks could book another three and so on.
> 
> ...



MALC9990, any suggestion that reduces the many weeks clout in reservation will not be looked upon with favor. Still...

Here's a TANSTAFFL suggestion. The second week at the 13th month is free. Each week thereafter is surcharged with a $100 dollar a week, for each week in the future that is booked past the 13th month. i.e. - 6 weeks in a row, week 2  - $0, week 3 - $100, week 4 - $200, week 5 - $300, week 6 - $400. Non-refundable. You want to trade or cancel, ok, but you don't get the surcharge back.

(The pitchforks are on the right and the torches are on the left...Birng your own matches...)


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## MALC9990 (Feb 23, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> MALC9990, any suggestion that reduces the many weeks clout in reservation will not be looked upon with favor. Still...
> 
> Here's a TANSTAFFL suggestion. The second week at the 13th month is free. Each week thereafter is surcharged with a $100 dollar a week, for each week in the future that is booked past the 13th month. i.e. - 6 weeks in a row, week 2  - $0, week 3 - $100, week 4 - $200, week 5 - $300, week 6 - $400. Non-refundable. You want to trade or cancel, ok, but you don't get the surcharge back.
> 
> (The pitchforks are on the right and the torches are on the left...Birng your own matches...)



I guess someone else will bring the barrel of tar and the bag of feathers.

However , yes your proposal would be worthy of consideration. Put a price on getting to the front of the queue that's the free market, commercial way. MVCI would probably quite like the idea also. I would actually be happy to work with that proposal. Non-refundable - yes I agree - that's the price of doing business.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 23, 2015)

MALC9990 said:


> I guess someone else will bring the barrel of tar and the bag of feathers.
> 
> However , yes your proposal would be worthy of consideration. Put a price on getting to the front of the queue that's the free market, commercial way. MVCI would probably quite like the idea also. I would actually be happy to work with that proposal. Non-refundable - yes I agree - that's the price of doing business.



Maybe the poor single weeker could pay a fee ($200?) to be treated as a 13th month two week owner. <shrug> 

But with two separate competing systems (weeks vs. points), I don't think there is any fair way that could be implemented. As I has brought out before, we don't <know> how the points part of MVCI actual acquires their weeks, <on a per week basis>.. Same number of weeks every week of the period with the MVCI owned weeks? Grab more of the popular weeks, and less of the lower popularity weeks in a season? (after all, they know the booking demand, it's <their> system). It's all a black box to the weeks owners, and probably to the points owners as well...


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## SueDonJ (Feb 23, 2015)

MALC9990 said:


> ... So - how would other Tuggers improve the reservation system?



The core of the problem is that it's a floating system with limited availability for the highest-demand intervals.  The only thing I see that could result in every Owner/Member getting equal/fair access to those intervals would be implementing some form of "lottery" access, as is provided for in the governing docs.

With what I own that might mean I wouldn't be able to book Memorial Day on Hilton Head every year (which I do routinely,) for an NCV Plat Owner it might mean access to a true summer week only every third year, for a BPT Plat Owner it might mean one year in true winter has to be offset by one in true summer, for a DC Points Member it might mean Sun-Thurs stays have to be offset by so many Fri-Sat stays, etc.  To make it as easy to implement as possible, just change it so that you can't book the same intervals in consecutive years.

Even with the impact on the way we typically use Weeks/Points, I'd be in favor of these kinds of limitations.


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## jme (Feb 23, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Maybe the poor single weeker could pay a fee ($200?) to be treated as a 13th month two week owner. <shrug>



What?  Some of us paid $20-24,000+ for that privilege (buying a second single week, or even multiple weeks, in platinum season), and a $200 fee would be a joke. 

It's entirely fair for a two week owner to have privileges......besides, only 50% of inventory is released at the 13 month mark, with the other 50% being released at the 12 month mark.  

Not to mention, with the resale prices far, far, far less now, the perks of 13-mo reservations is much easier now than ever before.


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## cp73 (Feb 23, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> The core of the problem is that it's a floating system with limited availability for the highest-demand intervals.



This is exactly the problem. Then on top of this you have the sales person telling the perspective buyer they can easily trade into the system and go anyplace you want, whenever. 

Everyone wants the best resorts, at the prime times, with the best views...and probably at least 70% of the inventory falls outside of this. I am glad I can finally go anytime of the year and not dependent on school calendars.


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## jme (Feb 23, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> The core of the problem is that it's a floating system with limited availability for the highest-demand intervals.





cp73 said:


> This is exactly the problem. Then on top of this you have the sales person telling the perspective buyer they can easily trade into the system and go anyplace you want, whenever.
> 
> Everyone wants the best resorts, at the prime times, with the best views...and probably at least 70% of the inventory falls outside of this. I am glad I can finally go anytime of the year and not dependent on school calendars.



Agree 100%, this is the problem. Newport Coast Villas is the worst because the platinum season is so long, but the prime weeks within that season are so short.  Some other resorts experience similar problems, like Mountainside and Summit Watch.

Getting a prime week is quite difficult.


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## EducatedConsumer (Feb 23, 2015)

[Post deleted at request of poster]


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## davidvel (Feb 23, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> I have no doubt you are still in the old system requiring II to do your trades.  If you would upgrade to the new system using points you will find a totally different response.  My two plat weeks in Newport never got me summer (my season), yet with points I can get summer 2015 right now - availability is extremely strong for point users because the majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties.  Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore, thus your frustration...


Well, coming from someone that sells Marriott DC points for Marriott, I would only expect such a recommendation.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 23, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> The core of the problem is that it's a floating system with limited availability for the highest-demand intervals.  The only thing I see that could result in every Owner/Member getting equal/fair access to those intervals would be implementing some form of "lottery" access, as is provided for in the governing docs.
> 
> With what I own that might mean I wouldn't be able to book Memorial Day on Hilton Head every year (which I do routinely,) for an NCV Plat Owner it might mean access to a true summer week only every third year, for a BPT Plat Owner it might mean one year in true winter has to be offset by one in true summer, for a DC Points Member it might mean Sun-Thurs stays have to be offset by so many Fri-Sat stays, etc.  To make it as easy to implement as possible, just change it so that you can't book the same intervals in consecutive years.
> 
> Even with the impact on the way we typically use Weeks/Points, I'd be in favor of these kinds of limitations.



Another possibility would be a form of congestion pricing. The annual maintance fee varying sharply depending on the week you reserve. You get a high demand week, you pay a high price for your annual fee. You get a low demand week, you pay a low maintenance fee. the total fees have to average to a particular total amount (the same amount as the current total maintenance fees).

With the big '"get 'em to buy and catch that huge sales profit for Marriott" model, nothing is going to change that would impede the selling of the points. The whole system is based on getting people to pay more in maintenance fees for unfavorable weeks, that they would want to otherwise, and using that to subsidise the "dream" of getting the best week for an average maintenance price; in order to to sell more points...


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## l0410z (Feb 23, 2015)

When planning for a vacation is more work then work, does anyone else see a problem?   All in the name of flexibility.  At what point does it move from flexible to breakage?

Contention and floating  ownership go hand in hand with timeshares.  Every resort has a fixed number of desirable weeks.  While there is a one to one ratio on the ownership, there is not a one to one on the demand for what you might want.   The DC program exponentially increase the contention because you do not have a one to one relationship.  You have a many to one.

I am the least knowledgeable person to give  advice on the Marriott trading systems.   What I have come to learn about trading has been from reading it on Tug.  I own 3 fixed weeks and I feel like I have all the freedom I need.  I spend my time figuring out how to avoid trading. 

It starts by liking your home resort.  I  have used it 8 times in 20 years.  I traded Marriott to Marriott twice when I needed to deviate from my fixed week and go another time.  This is the extent of my trading in II with my Marriott week.   So  spent 10 of 20 years in Hilton Head.  

I traded for MR for 6 years when the MF to MR use value ratio was so much better then it is now.  A MF of  600 would get me the same 130K MR points. that my MF of 1200 gets now.   Finally the last 4 years I rented my unit with a decent MF to rental ratio.  I also had a non Marriott resale unit for 20 years  that traded very well peak the  first 14 years of 20 years (now it only trades well off peak).  Using this combo my family and I went to Hawaii (Marriott Hotel), Europe (Spain. England, France - all hotels), Mexico (timeshare), Aruba twice (Surf and Marriott Hotel), St Thomas (Marriott hotel), Boston (Custom) and Vermont to name some.  Rentals helped me partially fund cruises.  All when the kids were out of school. 

This works for me and my not work for many.  Chase if you are listening, figure out what works.... it may be another resale, points, a combo of both or getting out.   I hope you figure it out because once you do, you will have many enjoyable vacations ahead.

At some point I will need to get with the program (and challenges) so I  enrolled my legacy week to join the DC program.   I still believe there are better  option than exchanging directly  for points.   My enrolled unit gets me 3525 DC points.  I can rent my unit for 2500 and at @ 50 cents a point that is 5000 points.  I just purchased a second fixed unit in HH to rent (or use). It  should get me 2000 as a rental or 4000 points.    From the responses in general, I may have all these points to use and few places to use it.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 23, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Another possibility would be a form of congestion pricing. The annual maintance fee varying sharply depending on the week you reserve. You get a high demand week, you pay a high price for your annual fee. You get a low demand week, you pay a low maintenance fee. the total fees have to average to a particular total amount (the same amount as the current total maintenance fees).
> 
> With the big '"get 'em to buy and catch that huge sales profit for Marriott" model, nothing is going to change that would impede the selling of the points. The whole system is based on getting people to pay more in maintenance fees for unfavorable weeks, that they would want to otherwise, and using that to subsidise the "dream" of getting the best week for an average maintenance price; in order to to sell more points...



No doubt MVW has a lot of leeway to make changes that will still conform to the governing docs because, as we all know, the docs contain a whole lot of contradictory and/or vague directives as well as the oft-repeated caveat, "subject to change at [MVW's] discretion."  But a sliding scale for MF's based on usage in a particular year, purchase price, purchased season, view, etc ... is one thing with which MVW's hands are tied.  The majority of states mandate that MF's must be consistent across all same-size units within a single property as declared, or across all increments in a Trust-based Points system.  Even if MVW wanted to implement a sliding MF structure  based on demand they couldn't.  The only exceptions pertaining to Weeks are with the Property Tax components at the Florida and California resorts, as noted in the MF compilation threads:  





> *Note that Property Taxes for the Florida resorts will vary according to the Resort Calendar seasons, and are included in the MF budgets.
> *Note that Property Taxes for the California resorts will vary among owners based on purchase price/date, and are billed separately by the counties.


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## ilene13 (Feb 23, 2015)

l0410z said:


> When planning for a vacation is more work then work, does anyone else see a problem?   All in the name of flexibility.  At what point does it move from flexible to breakage?
> 
> Contention and floating  ownership go hand in hand with timeshares.  Every resort has a fixed number of desirable weeks.  While there is a one to one ratio on the ownership, there is not a one to one on the demand for what you might want.   The DC program exponentially increase the contention because you do not have a one to one relationship.  You have a many to one.




Just a note neither of our Marriott timeshares have any fixed weeks.


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## bogey21 (Feb 23, 2015)

As many of you know I bought Marriott Weeks early in the game but became disenchanted as they started making changes to their program so I voted with my feet and sold.  I did keep my Monarch Fixed Week Crown Suite much longer, in fact until my family outgrew it.  I kept it because we liked it and it was no hassle being a Fixed Unit in a Fixed Week.

IMO Marriott has great Resorts.  If they had left things as they were when I first bought (Sabal Palms, Harbour Club and Heritage Club, all pre-construction) I don't think you would be seeing most of the complaints in this thread.  I really believe that most of the problems have come about as changes in the product have been made one after another.  Unfortunately, the changes were for the benefit of the Marriott bean counters, not their customers.

George


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## cp73 (Feb 23, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> I really believe that most of the problems have come about as changes in the product have been made one after another.  Unfortunately, the changes were for the benefit of the Marriott bean counters, not their customers.
> George



Once they came up with the points program they were able to bundle all those undesirable weeks and locations and refresh them and dress them all up like waterfront resorts. To the new points buyer they all think they are buying the best Marriott has to offer. Until they go to make their reservations.

All the weeks owner who belong to the destination program (like me) could reverse this trend by not converting to points each year. That way their weeks would only be available to weeks owners who want to trade (unless I am wrong on this point?_.


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## jme (Feb 23, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Another possibility would be a form of congestion pricing. The annual maintance fee varying sharply depending on the week you reserve. You get a high demand week, you pay a high price for your annual fee. You get a low demand week, you pay a low maintenance fee. the total fees have to average to a particular total amount (the same amount as the current total maintenance fees).
> 
> With the big '"get 'em to buy and catch that huge sales profit for Marriott" model, nothing is going to change that would impede the selling of the points. The whole system is based on getting people to pay more in maintenance fees for unfavorable weeks, that they would want to otherwise, and using that to subsidise the "dream" of getting the best week for an average maintenance price; in order to to sell more points...




Maintenance fees are for covering overhead, and each week is the same. A maintenance fee is not intended to reward or penalize.  That is no fair solution to anything, and would never hold up.  Firstly I'm sure it would be illegal.


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## GregT (Feb 23, 2015)

All,

I've been following this thread and haven't been quite sure what to make of it.  I suspect there are a number of people who are very frustrated with the Marriott system because it may not perform as they expected (like my friend has discovered) or owners who now have a different reservations experience from their historical usage.

I also know there are a number of very happy owners out there, I've see them on TUG and I've also met others on property, usually at the BBQ -- and they are typically thrilled with their ownership.

I have found that Marriott, like every one of my other timeshares, requires a great deal of my time to maximize (or even meet) the potential.   But HGVC/Starwood/Worldmark aren't really any easier (granted, they are more predictable) and any one of those systems could also easily frustrate the user.

To the OP, I don't think it is going to get any better.   Weeks and/or points will both require a great deal of time, and you may still not get the desired outcome.  For me, that makes the successful reservations all the sweeter.  I've had to study inventory release times, how home resort reservations work, numbers of units at a specific property, and often other variables too all to try to maximize my opportunity to simply get a reservation.

My reward for all this work is priceless family vacation time, that I've acquired for a reasonable cost.  Two weeks ago, my wife and I stayed in a 2BR Ocean-Front timeshare at HHV, using HGVC points where my MFs were $1,400.   Someone buying a comparable condo on Waikiki would likely pay $2M (I did check listings out of curiosity), but I get to routinely access that property for $1,400 per week.   Granted it is alot of work to get that HGVC reservation but I know how to get it almost every time.   

There is alot of wisdom on this board from veteran TUGgers, and I would encourage you to not give up on Marriott or on timeshares in general.  The (non-financial) return on this can be tremendous and I hope you can identify a usage pattern that meets your expectations and that is reasonable to accomplish.

Best,

Greg


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## SueDonJ (Feb 23, 2015)

cp73 said:


> Once they came up with the points program they were able to bundle all those undesirable weeks and locations and refresh them and dress them all up like waterfront resorts. To the new points buyer they all think they are buying the best Marriott has to offer. Until they go to make their reservations.
> 
> All the weeks owner who belong to the destination program (like me) could reverse this trend by not converting to points each year. That way their weeks would only be available to weeks owners who want to trade (unless I am wrong on this point?_.



MVW can satisfy DC Points requests with Weeks inventory that's been deposited to II for exchanges, and we don't know if they're constrained by a requirement to then deposit like-for-like or if they're allowed some other exchange metric.  In that way all Weeks which are designated for II exchanges, regardless of whether they're DC-enrolled or not, aren't kept completely separate from Points inventory.


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## puckmanfl (Feb 23, 2015)

good evening

ditto to Greg's post...

currently sitting at the Marriott Summitt Watch where 5 nights cost 2500 DC points ,about $1250 if you sue the going rate of $0.5o/pt and about $1000 in my MF's as an owner.  I have 5 concurrent units  (3 2 bedrooms) and  2 studios) as we have 13 of my group here.  These untis go for $1000 on marriott.com and about $3500 for redweek rentals...

I am already booked with rthe same deal for 2016 (mountainside and Summitt)  

All with points generated form a 3 bedroom plat grande Vista..

this rocks!!!


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## davidvel (Feb 23, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> It seems *you have an agenda to push Marriott's DC Points program* especially  considering that the OP began this thread by saying, "I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years," and then continued by saying that the 13-mos Reservation Window isn't working for him.


Bingo, we have a winner. :whoopie:


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## Chase (Feb 23, 2015)

SeaDoc said:


> I have no doubt you are still in the old system requiring II to do your trades.  If you would upgrade to the new system using points you will find a totally different response.  My two plat weeks in Newport never got me summer (my season), yet with points I can get summer 2015 right now - availability is extremely strong for point users because the majority of week owners have opted into the new program and our electing their weeks for club points which gives all of us point users availability of these properties.  Very few are giving their weeks to interval anymore, thus your frustration...



Not true.  I have used DC points.  Impossible to get into anywhere good 12 months out.  It's been miserable.


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## Chase (Feb 24, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> Chase, availability certainly is a factor in the DC Points program as it is in every floating timeshare system.  The TUG mantra has always been, "try to reserve your desired intervals the minute the applicable Reservation Windows open," but as you're finding there's no guarantee of success.  In fact we're finding that when we're trying to use the 13-mos window with DC Points, the inventory doesn't always become available immediately but is released instead sometime before the corresponding 12-mos window opens.  It's worthwhile for you to keep trying during that interim.  Also, as others have said, we are meeting with some success using the DC Waitlist but again, that doesn't result in an immediate reservation as far out as possible.
> 
> If you tell us exactly what you own we'll be able to help you further.  It's awful to be unhappy about your timeshare, and our aim is to tell you how to make it as right as possible (rather than tell you what you're doing wrong.)
> 
> ...




Thanks for your kind note.  We have a platinum week at Mountainside. Been trading for points since they offered points.  Originally it all worked well...but lately absolutely nothing of value out at 10 month window when you can book partial week.

So I went back to booking a whole week 12 months out.  Nothing.

So I tried 13 weeks out (7 nights with a 20pct point upcharge) on the phone with a reservation taker. Nothing again.

Clearly availability has deteriorated significantly over the last few years. 

I paid a premium for Mountainside platinum because I loved the resort, but also because I thought that premium cost would enable me to have a better chance of getting what I wanted on a trade.  When points came along I thought it was ingenious -- and jumped aboard.  It worked for a while...but now the program has become a joke.

If I knew a second week would solve my problems I'd jump in.  I'm just not that sure   Actually I'm skeptical.

Would be helpful to know:

-- how are 13 month bookings at Mountainside?
-- how easy is it to react a second week if you booked two
-- best resale unit to achieve my goal of resolving booking nightmare -- while also having it have some rental draw to recoup annual costs.

Thanks.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 24, 2015)

A second week will only help you if you are going to play in weeks. It will do nothing for you to make reservations in points since the second week, if resale, won't be able to exchange for DC points. You would have to be willing to stay at your home resort or exchange through II. If you are having trouble at 10, 12, and 13 months making DC point reservations, I don't see how a second week will help you. If you were having trouble making a 12 month weeks reservation, then a second week may help because it would allow you to make weeks reservations 13 months out.

I think we need a better understanding of where and when you were trying to book. What resorts and what time of year were you wanting to reserve?


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 24, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> ditto to Greg's post...
> 
> ...



Remember, this is a zero sum game. When you win big, somebody else is losing...(The only "slack" in the system are the trust weeks who points are not sold. Those seems to be shrinking...Which I think is starting to affect everybody in the Marriott system.)

So if one can't (or won't) "play the game" at the level of the best (with their tricks, tips and skills), one is left with the same bill and much worse product than average. At that point, it becomes very rational to ask "why be in the system" at all? Sell, and let somebody elses "play the game", hopefully better that you did...


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## puckmanfl (Feb 24, 2015)

good morning

EVERY timeshare system is a ZERO sum game, unless you bought a fixed week and occupy every year.  

This is the case for any trading system and occupying own weeks...

Examples..

every year a NCV platinum owner gets November, not July

A mountainsdie plat gets second week of December or 1st week of April

Every uptrade in II , leads to a downtrade...

same with DC points...

just saying....


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## davidvel (Feb 24, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning
> 
> EVERY timeshare system is a ZERO sum game, unless you bought a fixed week and occupy every year.
> 
> ...



Yes and no. At most resorts there are seasons, and you pay less for the "lesser" seasons at your resort. Yes, there are better weeks within each season, but the available weeks are more transparent, and you know you are guaranteed a week in that season (your  bad one if you bought it) at that resort.

With DC, everyone pays roughly the same for each point,  no one is sold a "bad" point. They are buying points with no guarantee of anything,  but sold as a promise of only the "best" weeks.


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## rthib (Feb 24, 2015)

davidvel said:


> With DC, everyone pays roughly the same for each point,  no one is sold a "bad" point. They are buying points with no guarantee of anything,  but sold as a promise of only the "best" weeks.



The DC program violates my first rule of time share, only buy in place and season where if all you could ever do is go there and use it at anytime during the season - would it be worth it? Because that is all you are buying.
People who buy during a large season and think they are going to be able to get that one week they want are as foolish as those who see the big II book and think their crappy time in place they hate will get them to those dream locations the sales rep showed them.

If you are not going to be happy with the first date of your season, the last date or any date in between then you should have walked away.

It is worse with points.
With DC points, you have no guarantee of anything other than some time / some where. You are paying $12/point for the possibility that all you can get is winter in Branson, Summer in the Dessert, Hurricane season etc...

I am always happy with all the trades and exchanges and other things I have done with my week - but in the end, I would be just as happy if I went to my home week anytime during the season.


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## l0410z (Feb 24, 2015)

rthib said:


> The DC program violates my first rule of time share, only buy in place and season where if all you could ever do is go there and use it at anytime during the season - would it be worth it? Because that is all you are buying.
> .



This is the one simple single best piece of advice to  be happy with your purchase (resale of course).   It will always stand the test of time no matter how Marriott changes.


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## bogey21 (Feb 24, 2015)

After I sold my Marriott Weeks I bought six Fixed Unit, Fixed Weeks at HOA controlled Independent Resorts.  This enabled me to eliminate a lot of heart burn and frustration.  I  knew where and when I was going.  The tradeoff was that the Units were not as nice as Marriott Units.  Locations were equal to or better.

George


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## SkyBlueWaters (Feb 24, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't understand how you can't book 12 months out using the tips provided in this site. I even get what I want, trading my studio.


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## SkyBlueWaters (Feb 24, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good morning
> 
> EVERY timeshare system is a ZERO sum game, unless you bought a fixed week and occupy every year.
> 
> ...



Not in my case. And I'm not really doing anything extraordinary. We'll see next week when I try booking my MOU week.


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## SueDonJ (Feb 24, 2015)

davidvel said:


> Yes and no. At most resorts there are seasons, and you pay less for the "lesser" seasons at your resort. Yes, there are better weeks within each season, but the available weeks are more transparent, and you know you are guaranteed a week in that season (your  bad one if you bought it) at that resort.
> 
> With DC, everyone pays roughly the same for each point,  no one is sold a "bad" point. They are buying points with no guarantee of anything,  but sold as a promise of only the "best" weeks.



I can only imagine that back when the timeshare industry shifted from the fixed week standard to floating weeks/seasons (for the same reason, to combat unsold low-demand inventory,) the existing owners at the time probably had the same thought process.  "They're selling the dream of the best and brightest to everyone, playing up access to the best while downplaying - or worse, not even mentioning - that by design it means access for some will have to be the worst."  If you think about, the same metric applies to unit placements in every type of system except fixed-unit systems, and those are thought of as archaic!

Now the overwhelming majority think of floating Weeks/seasons as the ideal timeshare system, despite the fact that hybrid Points and Weeks as well as Points-only systems have been successfully implemented by others in the industry.  Not everyone likes the fact that Marriott is now in the Points game but that doesn't mean it's destined for failure - it can be made to work the same as every other change in the industry has been made to work.


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## davidvel (Feb 24, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> I can only imagine that back when the timeshare industry shifted from the fixed week standard to floating weeks/seasons (for the same reason, to combat unsold low-demand inventory,) the existing owners at the time probably had the same thought process.  "They're selling the dream of the best and brightest to everyone, playing up access to the best while downplaying - or worse, not even mentioning - that by design it means access for some will have to be the worst."  If you think about, the same metric applies to unit placements in every type of system except fixed-unit systems, and those are thought of as archaic!
> 
> Now the overwhelming majority think of floating Weeks/seasons as the ideal timeshare system, despite the fact that hybrid Points and Weeks as well as Points-only systems have been successfully implemented by others in the industry.  Not everyone likes the fact that Marriott is now in the Points game but that doesn't mean it's destined for failure - it can be made to work the same as every other change in the industry has been made to work.


I agree, and would also add that what was made worse in certainty and expectation going from fixed-weeks to floating seasons, is exacerbated in the points system. 

And at least among the seasons, in the float system, buyers know what they cannot book (that which is not in their season).


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## taterhed (Feb 24, 2015)

*Up to the challenge!*

I'm a noob.  In fact, so new, we haven't even closed yet! (Marriott got me on the first FROR, sigh  )

We've  done our research.  We revoked on a HGVC after reviewing this wonderful  website.  Now, we're waiting on a couple of Marriott legacy weeks  (resale of course). I admit the temptation to just rent points or units  is very strong.  The commitment required to buy two weeks is a lot.

But, I love a good challenge!

We don't plan on booking Xmas 13 mos out.  We don't plan on trading our lock-off for a 3br on Presidents ski week in Park City.
I  confess, we are buying a week to use and a week to trade.  I'm viewing  this as a opportunity to get the thrill of the best trade ever and find  the time to take vacations.  In the past, it was just too easy to 'put  it off' or 'save the money.'  Call me a dreamer, but I think I'm up to  the challenge.  If not, I'll rent/sell and call it learning experience.   But in the meantime, I'm going to have a bunch of weeks of great  vacation time somewhere.  And hey, a vacation is what you make of it.   You can complain that there aren't enough towels at the pool or that you  didn't get the view you wanted, but try staying at an average hotel  sometime. They stink IMHO (and I'm being very nice here.)

From my  very limited experience, and with all due respect.  I still feel  qualified to say it out loud:  Anybody who thinks they can buy 1 week  (legacy or points) and make a reservation in a premium resort, peak  season, in an upgraded unit by making just one phone call....drank too  much koolaide at the sales presentation.

I guess my posts in the future will tell the tale..  wish me luck!


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## jpc763 (Feb 24, 2015)

I guess that I am just lucky.  I own 2 weeks per year at 3 Marriotts.  Every year I book Easter Week in Orlando, Kids Spring Break in Oahu or Thanksgiving in Palm Desert.  I have been doing it for years now and never have had no availability.  

My brother and sister both bought NCV "platinum" weeks and they NEVER could get a week between June and August.  They converted their weeks to points and now just don't even try.

2016 Easter (Orlando) & Spring Break (Oahu) is coming up soon so I will see if my tune changes but I booked Thanksgiving 2015 in Palm Desert with no problem at 9AM MST on the first possible checkin day of the 12 month window.

I look forward to when I don't have to follow the kids school calendars (8 more years!) so I can use any week in Hawaii or September in Palm Desert or February in Orlando.


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## davidvel (Feb 24, 2015)

jpc763 said:


> My brother and sister both bought NCV "platinum" weeks and they NEVER could get a week between June and August.  They converted their weeks to points and now just don't even try.
> .


The NCV Platinum "season" is an example of seasons being more like the DC points system, as there is a huge difference in demands of the weeks. It spans from roughly June 5-December 25. As it is a "beach" resort, and with school schedules, obviously September-December is not quite the demand of summer which most people would prefer.


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## dioxide45 (Feb 24, 2015)

jpc763 said:


> My brother and sister both bought NCV "platinum" weeks and they NEVER could get a week between June and August.  They converted their weeks to points and now just don't even try.



The problem is that the amount of points that MVCI gives them to convert their Platinum NCV week to points doesn't even come close to booking a summer week there. MVCI only gives 3,475 DC points but the most expensive one are 4,725. This being the skim. Of course they can take points from somewhere else, but really, should they have to? The seasons should have been designed better but were designed to maximize Marriott's bottom line.


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## puckmanfl (Feb 24, 2015)

good evening

David...

Even "weeks in season" is a zero sum game.  Name me one season in the Marriott weeks season, where some weeks aren't more platinum then others.  If somebody is getting mid July at NCV, somebody else is getting november.  The "scam" is less apparant with DC points, where the buyer isn;t told how it works!!!  This is why I love DC points as an add on adjunct to my legacy weeks, but NOT as an isolated new purchase

Off to meet a TUGGER for a soft drink at Summitt Watch...

will report back!!!

reminds me of whn I met Greg for the first time...


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## jpc763 (Feb 24, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is that the amount of points that MVCI gives them to convert their Platinum NCV week to points doesn't even come close to booking a summer week there. MVCI only gives 3,475 DC points but the most expensive one are 4,725. This being the skim. Of course they can take points from somewhere else, but really, should they have to? The seasons should have been designed better but were designed to maximize Marriott's bottom line.




I totally understand and agree. Marriott got them to buy some more points to help them get the week they want. 

He is now an empty nester who trades for points and uses them for long weekends.  He is happy, but he paid a lot for it.


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## SMB1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Chase said:


> I've been an owner of a platinum mountainside unit for around 6-7 years. I have a family with 3 young children.  I have been trading my week for points the last couple of years.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that Marriott has completely trashed their program.  It is virtually impossible to book anything of value even 13 months out (good luck in a 10 month window!) unless you have interest in Orlando or like resorts in the off season.  Add this to working around school holiday schedules...and it's time to realize that Marriott is a bad timeshare product for families.  Maybe if you are retired and have a ton of schedule flexibility....but if you have a job and kids in school....the program is pretty much a disaster.
> 
> ...



I have had the opposite experience.  Using points 2 years ago I booked a 2 bedroom at Mountainside Presidents week 13 months out.  Last year I booked a 3 bedroom at Lakeshore Reserve April school vacation at 13 months out.  This past week I booked a 1 bed room and 2 studios at Mountain Valley Lodge Presidents week 12 months out.  The points system has worked perfectly for me.


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## SMB1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Chase said:


> Pretty interesting.  Two more questions:
> 
> -- does anyone out there have any experience of getting a platinum week at mountainside 13 months out (ie in ski season)?
> 
> -- if I was to try this angle and add onto my platinum mountainside unit with a resale unit, does anyone have any ideas what location the cheapest 2nd unit would be in the resale market that had a calendar that lined up with Marriott Mountainside's platinum season?



Using points 2 years ago I booked a 2 bedroom at Mountainside Presidents week 13 months out.


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## jtdillian (Feb 25, 2015)

December 26th, 2014 I reserved two 2 bedroom villas at Frenchman's Cove for check in 12/19/15 for 7nights (Xmas week)

2 weeks ago after hearing what Puck said I reserved Mountainside for Presidents week in 2016 for 7 nights 

And last week i booked Aruba surf club for presidents week 2016 for 7 nights

All using DC. Would anyone beg to differ that these are three of the most difficult locations to get and the most difficult weeks?

Can't get what you want with DC you sure?


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## ilene13 (Feb 25, 2015)

jtdillian said:


> December 26th, 2014 I reserved two 2 bedroom villas at Frenchman's Cove for check in 12/19/15 for 7nights (Xmas week)
> 
> 2 weeks ago after hearing what Puck said I reserved Mountainside for Presidents week in 2016 for 7 nights
> 
> ...



Are you going to be in Aruba and at Mountainside simultaneously?


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## puckmanfl (Feb 25, 2015)

good morning

jt....

strong work  Aruba and Mountainside at the same time  

that's the Puck Trick 4....

I booked Summitt and Mountainside 2/21/16-2/26/16 at 13 month mark this past year!!!


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## taffy19 (Feb 25, 2015)

I see that jt can use a lot of DC points so could he reserve two weeks at the same time and decide later which one to cancel?

It is a difficult game to play but you can do it if you have the time and motivation.

I sent another Marriott owner to this Board here as he did NOTHING with his weeks but kept paying his maintenance fees on multiple weeks.  He bought in the very beginning where free golf is included so I hope that he is reading the Board as I sent him multiple links too and he signed right up from my computer here in Mexico.


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## taterhed (Feb 25, 2015)

Allright.  Lot's of good fresh motivation.

I can't wait.

Unfortunately, I won't get my 2016 use units until March (at earliest).  
Sigh.

Don't wanna jinx.  After the deal is done, I'll be back for booking advice.

I do love this forum.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 25, 2015)

This thread inspired me to take a few minutes and peruse availability for Jan/Feb 2016 with DC Points at the tropical resorts that would be popular at that time of the year to get an idea of how valid the "Can't book anything with Points" idea is. 
All of my searches were done for 7-day stays. Here is what I found (positive availability is coded in green):

*CARIBBEAN*

*Frenchmans Cove*
   2BR OS   ---   Nothing Available in Jan or Feb

*Aruba Ocean Club*
   2BR OV/OF --  Nothing Available in Jan or Feb
   1BR OV/OF --  Nothing Available in Jan or Feb

*Aruba Surf Club*
   All room types -- Nothing Available in January
   1BR OS -- Nothing Available in Jan or Feb
   All room types except 1BR OS -- scattered availability in mid-late Feb only

*St Kitts*
   2BR OS/OV/GV -- Available first 2-3 weeks of Jan, very limited Feb check in days


*HAWAII*

*Maui Ocean Club*
   2BR OF -- Not available in Jan or Feb   
   2BR OV -- Not available except for first few days of January
   2BR MGV -- Available most of January; Nothing in February
   1BR OV/MGV -- Available for almost any Jan or Feb check-in day
   1BR OF -- A few scattered check-in days available in Jan and Feb

*Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas*
Nothing Available except a few days in late Feb for 1BR IV

*Kauai Beach Club*
2BR OV -- Available all of Jan and Feb
2BR OF -- Available very early January; Nothing after that
1BR OF/OV -- Available all of Jan and Feb

*Kauai Lagoons*
2BR IV -- Available anytime in Jan or Feb
2BR OV -- Some available in early Jan; Nothing after that

*Waiohai*
2BR OV -- Available first 3 weeks of January; Nothing after that
2BR IV -- Available all of January; Scattered in Feb (about half of the month)

*KoOlina*
2BR OV -- Available first 3 weeks of January; Nothing after
2BR MV -- Available all of Jan and Feb
1BR OV/MV -- Available all of Jan and Feb (a few holes in Jan)

So there *IS* availability in these prime spots in the DC, but the Caribbean is very, very limited. In Hawaii, a 2BR on Maui is toughest, but 1BR availability is pretty good. February in Hawaii is tougher than January and if you are flexible on view category, it would seem you can do better.

Obviously availability right at inventory release may be better, but the few limited experiments I've done recently right at 12 month release have not shown significantly better availability than this - at least with the few queries I've done recently right at release on 2BR at MOC.


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## Cobra1950 (Feb 25, 2015)

Our kids are grown and married now so school schedules not #1 priority unless family trip planned.  Our Summittwatch Christmas Week (51) was great for that as it was fixed week as is New Years and Presidents Week there and at Mountainside.  I reserved 2015 Fixed Week 51 13 weeks out and was able to trade our Bronze Summitwatch for Week 50 on II so we will be out there for two full weeks (pray for Snow!)
    My suggestion is that anyone in the situation of the original writer is to purchase one of these PP weeks or similar (in Marriott old terms usually Platinum Plus weeks) resale at your choice of resorts.  We paid $39K for ours 16 years ago and you can buy them for $25K now.  Mountainside is much higher in the $50K range, but Summittwatch is a lot handier for Main Street family activities though the Town Lift is a POS (hopefully Vail will replace it and recut the runs down).
    I agree the points program is a rip off, getting very little use out of it and I cannot believe what they are asking for points now.  For example, to book a Summittwatch Christmas Week it is about 6500 DC points (requiring $65,000 plus in points purchase to get) or you could buy one resale for $25,000 cash.  Seems like no brainer if you like to ski.  The whole concept of last minute travel has been oversold by Marriott and I have found it to be just not true.
     Our biggest issue now is when we stop travelling in 10 years or so what in XXXX are we going to do with them as our kids so far have 0 interest in picking them up and paying the maintenance.


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## l0410z (Feb 25, 2015)

jtdillian said:


> December 26th, 2014 I reserved two 2 bedroom villas at Frenchman's Cove for check in 12/19/15 for 7nights (Xmas week)
> 
> 2 weeks ago after hearing what Puck said I reserved Mountainside for Presidents week in 2016 for 7 nights
> 
> ...



As timeshare owner, I figured out how to make my portfolio of timeshares work for me.  I think every happy owner has that in common.   The frustration and unhappy comments are just everyone trying to do the same.  The difficult part is there is no one size that  fits all.     

 Do you think your success was a by product of the DC program so any person with DC points (lets say 2000)  could have combined their points plus rental points to achieve the same thing?    If this is the reason, then the DC program will work for everyone.

You have many legacy weeks and should rightfully benefit.     Do you think your success was a by product of the amount of points you own?    If by chance it is this reason, then the cost of making the program work is high. A non legacy participant  would need to pay 168000 (14000 * 12) and $6500 to play.     Even a combo of resale and points would be 100,000.  

We (legacy owners) have an advantage, Marriott  protected us.  While one size does not fit all, time will tell if the size Marriott created fits many. Over time they will create something new.  When they do, I hope they protect us again.  If they don't we will have to figure out how to make it work again.


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## JIMinNC (Feb 25, 2015)

Cobra1950 said:


> I agree the points program is a rip off, getting very little use out of it and I cannot believe what they are asking for points now.  For example, to book a Summittwatch Christmas Week it is about 6500 DC points (requiring $65,000 plus in points purchase to get) or you could buy one resale for $25,000 cash.  Seems like no brainer if you like to ski.  The whole concept of last minute travel has been oversold by Marriott and I have found it to be just not true.



If someone wants Christmas week almost every year (or any similar situation) then you are correct that Points are not the right product for them.

Where points have a huge advantage vs fixed weeks is in flexibility - shorter stays, booking in any season (subject to availability), add on days to a weeks reservation, etc. Some of us also prefer to be able to go online and actually see the availability on the calendar rather than always having to rely on the uncertainties of an II search. The "price" we pay for that flexibility is less certainty in availability for exactly what we want when we want it, but given that we want to go different places in different seasons, the inflexibility of traditional timeshare ownership is even less attractive. 

We've only been DC owners for about six months, but that's why we wanted to own in the the point system - for the opportunities it presents for shorter/longer stays and the flexibility to book any resort in any season. We'll be free of the school calendar in a couple of years, and based on our "shopping" of availability we've done over the last few months, once we can be more flexible, it appears DC availability can meet our needs for a variety of travel experiences well. Hopefully five years from now we will still feel that way.

I do agree that the upfront cost of DC Points is the biggest problem, but resale points purchases or hybrid/combo purchases (what we did), supplemented by point rentals can provide the benefits of points without quite the exorbitant upfront cost of a pure points buy.

But if there is ever somewhere that we want to go almost every year in the same season (such as Hilton Head in the fall/spring Gold seasons), then we would absolutely consider buying a Gold HHI week for that purpose rather than using points. For that kind of year-after-year vacation, there is no need to use the higher cost points system.


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## Fasttr (Feb 25, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> If someone wants Christmas week almost every year (or any similar situation) then you are correct that Points are not the right product for them.
> 
> Where points have a huge advantage vs fixed weeks is in flexibility - shorter stays, booking in any season (subject to availability), add on days to a weeks reservation, etc. Some of us also prefer to be able to go online and actually see the availability on the calendar rather than always having to rely on the uncertainties of an II search. The "price" we pay for that flexibility is less certainty in availability for exactly what we want when we want it, but given that we want to go different places in different seasons, the inflexibility of traditional timeshare ownership is even less attractive.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more.  We purchased a modest points package back when the price was in the low $9 range, and because we were staying a week on a cash stay at MOC at the time, after crediting that week against the purchase, we ended up all-in in the $7/point range (closer to a hybrid purchase today) and then I just rent the additional points that I need.  That said, we have had great success, getting points ressies at Aruba Ocean Club, Newport Coast, Grande Vista, Sabal Palms, Lakeshore Reserve, Frenchman's Cove,  Crystal Shores, BeachPlace Towers and have always gotten the week of the year we were looking for, our desired length of stay (some a week, some a few days, some more than a week), our desired view, the room size we wanted (which has varied if it was just us -1BR, or with the kids - 2B, or with the kids and kids friends - 3BR), so the flexibility has worked out great for us.

Also, eerily like you mentioned, we recently purchased a resale Grande Ocean OF Gold week as we would like to make a Spring or Fall trip to HHI an annual event and for that purpose, a resale week made more sense.  

There are benefits to both systems (the best of all being a Legacy enrolled week, which we were too late in the game to get), but so far after a handful of years at this, we are as happy now as we were when we purchased the points.  

Also, I think another huge benefit of the points system, that is often overlooked during these discussions, is once you are in, you can rent and have full control over as many points as you want.  I am looking forward to retirement (a ways away yet), when I can rent the extra points needed (hopefully renting/transferring is still allowed then :ignore to string several weeks together to get through the winter in a warmer climate, and my only additional outlay to do that is the cost of the rental points (approx. = MF's) without having to pay any additional upfront cost to buy the extra weeks if I played only in the weeks system.  If my needs change either temporarily or permanently, I am not tied up with MF's for many extra weeks in any year I may not use/need the extra weeks.  Again, added flexibility.


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## davidvel (Feb 25, 2015)

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> David...
> 
> ...


Yes, there are always weeks better than others in any season. NCV is an extreme example and I am sure there are similar.  But many Marriott seasons are a pretty good distribution of Best/Good/Not So Good. 

In DC, there is only 1 season for all weeks/resorts. Enjoy the slopes.


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## jerseyfinn (Feb 25, 2015)

An interesting thread not because it provides an answer or a rebuttal to the OP but rather because of how one has to sift through the 75+ threads to discover that there does not exist any singular answer that clearly or concisely explains Marriott timeshare today. 


It's not about anyone being right or wrong as much as it is about comprehending what MVC once was and how the *context *of linear legacy week ownership functioned and how differently this new points-based program functions. 

But even when one draws clear distinctions between the two programs there *does not *exist a terra firma rock-bottom explanation that all of us can use to find the golden path to Marriott timeshare satisfaction. This is because Marriott knows this is not possible when they establish two parallel programs which unlike parallel lines, will indeed cross paths some time in the future as this DC program gains market inertia and one program declines as the other thrives. We simply *can not predict *when this moment will arrive.

The closest I can come to describing how I/we function within today's Marriott timeshare is to say that Marriott has deliberately ( yet necessarily ) created a murky product which bridges the past and the present. The result is an *ever-changing program *on the DC side and endless confusion or *indeterminism* for legacy week owners, both those who enroll or those who do not enroll their weeks.

We as legacy owners never had full knowledge or full disclosure about inventory, demand or allocation, but we could *inferentially divine demand *by asking our HOAs about occupancy demographics and by following the tides of demand and supply on Interval across the seasons. 

There did exist a generally functional methodology for owners to plan, strategize and develop alternative usage strategies which either seized the week & resort we sought or come up with good alternatives. And always, always, always timeshare has been about *advance planning & contingency planning*.
So I sort of chuckle when some suggest it's the floating system which today constrains our choices. Most TUGgers "floated" along pretty well when they existing within the constraints of the linear legacy program, its seasons, entry options ( developer v. resale ). Likewise for those of us who purchase platinum or gold weeks, those legacy years also created resale markets which allow us self-arbitrage, much to Marriott's chagrin.


The *game changer *for all of we legacy folks is Marriott's decision to suspend the legacy program. Marriott's Holy Grail was always a points program; the recession simply affords Marriott a proximate cause to make the change. This creates yet another Marriott currency and suddenly Marriott expands this currency to encompass DC points, our legacy weeks when we enroll them, and most important to Marriott, the ability for *Marriott alone *to control resales whislt keeping a hybrid legacy market alive. 

Another game changer is the gradual *marginalization of the resort HOAs *as the DC program unleashes a gradual process of *inventory attrition* which *dilutes the voting power *of legacy week owners. How and when you are impacted is a function of how much unsold inventory existed at each resort at the time of converstion to DC and how much foreclosed/abandoned inventory flows back to the Trust. Nothing illegal here. Just a long, careful process set in motion by Marriott as it looks after its own interests.
My remarks here are intended only to remind folks about the *functional changes *that have occured within Marriott timeshare. What we should take away from this is the realization that these functional changes ( including direct internal MVC trades, a dimished Interval relationship, & enrolled week options ) all fall into a series of buckets which are more invisible to we legacy owners. 


We can *no longer infer demand *or inventory in the same manner we could in the past. Hence confusion and indecision when trying to plan travel with DC points. Of course this is Marriott's intention as it's part and parcel with a points program. Marriott today is *reactive *to inventory flows which are in turn driven by our own activity and the gradually growing influence of individuals who purchase DC points and essentially *compete against us *for inventory. Marriott's task is that of an inventory juggler managing parallel programs which one day will indeed collide.

How will you be impacted? There exists no cookie cutter answer to this question. It's a function of how many legacy weeks you own, their season, whether you have enrolled them, the ( fluctuating ) number of DC points Marriott allocates to your enrolled week(s), what your travel goals/priorities are  ( to which resort & for which season as Marriott constantly tweaks DC redemption rules and rates), & how prompt/efficient you are in making reservations along with plain and simple luck. 

Marriott itself is reactive as sales and demand evolve so in some instances Marriott can't always accurately tell us what is going on. In other instances, Marriott does not intend to tell us because their ultimate goal is to grow the DC program whilst not causing a riot amongst we legacy owners.

So I think the OP makes a valid point when they express confusion and frustration with Marriott. But so too was this an issue during the legacy program. Once again, in the past, I believe dissatisfaction during the legacy years was more often a function of folks failing to assimilate the parameters around them and learn the mechanics of trading. 

Today there still exists a mechanics of trading. But Marriott itself shrouds our resorts in a cloak we can no longer see even a dim outline of what is going on. It's definitely a frustrating situation to be in.
But for now, life goes on and we must try to strategize and adapt to this confusion Marriott creates. I believe many folks can still find varying degrees of satisfaction. But ultimately, this new program is not a friend to the legacy owner.  Marriott will hesitate to disclose what's really going on. Best bet is to enjoy your weeks & your travels as the resort themselves are mostly nice places. For Ocean Pointe and Oceana Palms legacy travelers, I suggest Two Drunken Goats up the beach as a place to drown one's Marriott points program angst. 

Barry


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## GregT (Feb 25, 2015)

jerseyfinn said:


> An interesting thread not because it provides an answer or a rebuttal to the OP but rather because of how one has to sift through the 75+ threads to discover that there does not exist any singular answer that clearly or concisely explains Marriott timeshare today.
> 
> 
> It's not about anyone being right or wrong as much as it is about comprehending what MVC once was and how the *context *of linear legacy week ownership functioned and how differently this new points-based program functions.
> ...



Barry, 

This is a very interesting post and a number of thought provoking comments.   Lots to chew on, and thank you for summarizing your thoughts.  

Best,

Greg


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Feb 25, 2015)

jerseyfinn said:


> An interesting thread not because it provides an answer or a rebuttal to the OP but rather because of how one has to sift through the 75+ threads to discover that there does not exist any singular answer that clearly or concisely explains Marriott timeshare today.
> 
> 
> It's not about anyone being right or wrong as much as it is about comprehending what MVC once was and how the *context *of linear legacy week ownership functioned and how differently this new points-based program functions.
> ...



Barry, a fine scholarly analysis. I plan on providing my "Visualization of the Marriott Vacation Club All" (with a tip of the ol' hat to E. E. Smith PHD), but it will take time, which I don't have this evening. Hopefully I'll post tomorrow evening.


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## taterhed (Feb 25, 2015)

These are wonderful posts and I feel like I'm learning a lot.  thanks for everyone's comments


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## EducatedConsumer (Feb 25, 2015)

jtdillian said:


> December 26th, 2014 I reserved two 2 bedroom villas at Frenchman's Cove for check in 12/19/15 for 7nights (Xmas week)
> 
> 2 weeks ago after hearing what Puck said I reserved Mountainside for Presidents week in 2016 for 7 nights
> 
> ...



Bet you can't wait to try to get air to Aruba for President's Week.


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## EducatedConsumer (Feb 25, 2015)

jerseyfinn said:


> An interesting thread not because it provides an answer or a rebuttal to the OP but rather because of how one has to sift through the 75+ threads to discover that there does not exist any singular answer that clearly or concisely explains Marriott timeshare today.
> 
> 
> It's not about anyone being right or wrong as much as it is about comprehending what MVC once was and how the *context *of linear legacy week ownership functioned and how differently this new points-based program functions.
> ...



Talk about seeing the forest through the trees.

Your points are fair, balanced, critically conceptualized, and very well stated.

Thank you!


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## Fasttr (Feb 26, 2015)

jerseyfinn said:


> But for now, life goes on and we must try to strategize and adapt to this confusion Marriott creates. I believe many folks can still find varying degrees of satisfaction. But ultimately, this new program is not a friend to the legacy owner.  Marriott will hesitate to disclose what's really going on. Best bet is to enjoy your weeks & your travels as the resort themselves are mostly nice places.



Barry...your entire post contained some pretty deep thoughts for a Finlander.   

Heikki Lunta would be proud.


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## nstotland (Feb 28, 2015)

*Both a worthwhile and worthless product*

For most of us the value of the timeshares we own are pretty worthless,  the recession took care of that and only in extreme cases where properties were purchased when these legacy weeks first when on the market will there be at best a break even situation, if we elect to sell. The recession changed things and Marriott had to go to a point system as money became tight. 
Personally we work the system diligently, trading the Ocean Pointe lock-off, and taking advantage of getaways and accommodation certificates with Interval International. The certificates have been used in Aruba, Orlando's Lakeshore Reserve, a much nicer product than Ocean Pointe, New Jersey and Hilton Head.
That is the worthwhile aspect I am referring too. 
I don't see any value in the point system, using the MOD rate with a Marriott credit card entitles you to a 35% discount. A better option with zero obligation and zero maintenance fees.


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## jerseyfinn (Mar 1, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> Barry...your entire post contained some pretty deep thoughts for a Finlander.
> 
> Heikki Lunta would be proud.



I forgot about Heikki Lunta until your post so you got me good there   :hysterical:

Given what Marriott's doing to we legacy owners, I don't think I would snow on Marriott . . . . several visits to the stockyards gathering up what the cattle leaves behind is what Marriott needs right now as they are shoveling away at all of us.

Yes, Finns are generally solitary quiet people. But when we are sober enough, we can come up with some words. I've never been to the UP where those Finns are. Maybe Marriott will stick a timeshare up there where everyone can book 13 months out. Then again, most folks will likely be puzzled by the inebriated Finns who sit on frozen lakes ice fishing.  

Barry


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## bogey21 (Mar 1, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> But if there is ever somewhere that we want to go almost every year in the same season (such as Hilton Head in the fall/spring Gold seasons), then we would absolutely consider buying a Gold HHI week for that purpose rather than using points. For that kind of year-after-year vacation, there is no need to use the higher cost points system.



Another alternative for HHI is to buy a Fixed Unit, Fixed Week at Monarch.  For me certainty of use trumps maybe a newer, larger Floating Week.  Note that many years ago I sold 3 of my Marriott Weeks and bought 6 Fixed Unit, Fixed Weeks at 6 different HOA Controlled Independents for a whole lot less money and never regretted my decision. 

George


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## JIMinNC (Mar 1, 2015)

bogey21 said:


> Another alternative for HHI is to buy a Fixed Unit, Fixed Week at Monarch.  For me certainty of use trumps maybe a newer, larger Floating Week.  Note that many years ago I sold 3 of my Marriott Weeks and bought 6 Fixed Unit, Fixed Weeks at 6 different HOA Controlled Independents for a whole lot less money and never regretted my decision.
> 
> George



I've never been a fan of the fixed week model - too restrictive. If I couldn't go or had a conflict with the date of a fixed week, my only options would be to try the II trading game, rental etc.. Plus, with a HHI Gold floating, one year we might opt for Spring, the next year Fall. I prefer flexibility over certainty.


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## bogey21 (Mar 1, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I've never been a fan of the fixed week model - too restrictive. If I couldn't go or had a conflict with the date of a fixed week, my only options would be to try the II trading game, rental etc......



Your point is well taken.  On the other hand I was often able to swap my Week by calling the Office at my Independent HOA Controlled Resort.  None ever charged me whenever we were able to work it out.

George


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## SkyBlueWaters (Mar 2, 2015)

jerseyfinn said:


> An interesting thread not because it provides an answer or a rebuttal to the OP but rather because of how one has to sift through the 75+ threads to discover that there does not exist any singular answer that clearly or concisely explains Marriott timeshare today.
> 
> 
> It's not about anyone being right or wrong as much as it is about comprehending what MVC once was and how the *context *of linear legacy week ownership functioned and how differently this new points-based program functions.
> ...



I think we should start a riot.


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