# Deciding on HGVC contract



## simba7 (Aug 22, 2011)

Hello!  
I just went through a HGVC presentation in Orlando last week, and ended up signing on an every other odd-year 3400 points, 1-bedroom in gold season for $11,840. They said it was discounted by nearly $6000 (for a total of $11,840) and gave us 6800 bonus points. I had been reluctant going into the presentation, as I don't know much about timeshares. My husband however, felt that this would be a great way for the family (us and 2 kids) to enjoy vacationing more often. We signed the contract, but only after I realized we had 10 days to rescind...hence my current search for info!!!  It seems many users have good things to say about Hilton's program, but I still have some questions. 

1) They said the maintenance fees don't usually go up often, and in rare cases have gone down....any input?

2) They gave us a unit in the Las Vegas Strip property...not a place we were thinking of going with the kids, but they said the maintenance fees would be much lower there. It seemed kind of strange since the whole time we were discussing trips to Orlando or hopefully Hawaii. Does the location truly matter?

3) Do you get charged a fee for making reservations during the open season? They mentioned the reservation fees for club reservations, but don't see anything about fees for open season rentals. Just wondering if these rates are actually going to be lower than just using my AAA discount rate for a room.

4) They talked about maintenance fees and the club reservation fees, but did not mention the annual club dues until we were signing the actual contract. At that point, I almost backed out but figured we went this far, and $114 wouldn't be too bad. However, I just read over the guide book and now see it also mentions a "first year activation fee" listed on page 151 for $399. Is this yet another upfront fee they did not mention in the sales pitch? Are there alot of these types of hidden "fees" with this program?

5) They gave us 6800 bonus points and said they could be spread over the first five years making it feel like an "annual" plan. After reading the fine print, it seems the bonus points are only good for 2 years after being awarded. It seemed kind of shady to me, but if we need to use them sooner rather than later...maybe we can use them to take a really nice trip to Hawaii. As far as availability, is this being realistic?

6) As for occupancy restrictions, if we could only find a studio room available somewhere, would we be able to stay with our 2 children? The booklet says studios have an occupancy restriction of 2 people, but I was wondering if they are including the kids. Any experience with this situation?

Also thinking of buying "re-sale" as well now after reading many other posts, but worried that Hilton wouldn't approve the re-sale if they see we had rescinded.  Our credit is decent, but not great....do they use that as a factor for re-sale? We would probably just pay cash if they are truly that much lower in cost. Just trying to figure out if we really found a good deal or if it's just a scam! Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks for any input!!!


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 22, 2011)

You should rescind and buy resale for much less.


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## loafingcactus (Aug 22, 2011)

Your bonus point expiration date will be in your purchase summary document.

Good deal or no can be debated on several different variables, but it doesn't really sound like you necessarily bought something that is a good match for you and your family.


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## ricoba (Aug 22, 2011)

If you are still within the 10 days rescind and buy resale.  For what you spent you should be able to find a  2 bedroom, every year 7000 points unit

And no, you can't put 4 into a studio, they only have 1 bed.

Judy K and Seth are two resale agents well respected here on TUG.


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## Blues (Aug 22, 2011)

Agree with Cindy -- definitely rescind.  Then, take your time to research the types of deals available on resale.

I'm a big believer in HGVC.  I own two weeks.  But the price you paid was way, way over market.  By buying resale, you could get 3400 points *every* year for less than $3000.  Better yet, a 5000 point 2 BR Gold every year for around $4000-5000.  For the money you paid, you could buy a 7000 point 2BR Platinum every year.

I know that they sell you on the benefits of buying from HGVC direct.  But one of the beauties of the HGVC program is that resale buyers get everything, every privilege, of direct buyers, except one.  You can't get Elite status with resale points.  While there are some benefits of Elite, it's not worth anything near the price it costs.

Oh, and of course, by buying resale, you won't get your bonus points.  Your 6800 bonus points will get you 2 weeks in a 1 BR in Gold time.  That may be worth about $2000 or so.

-Bob
ETA - I see Rick got in ahead of me, while I was typing this.  I agree - Judy K and Seth are both highly regarded on this forum.  You can't go wrong dealing with either one of them.


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## simba7 (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the input! We originally thought that by going with an "every other year" program we would be able to get a feel for the how the points work before committing to a yearly maintenance fee, but could always upgrade if we were happy. Now that I see what we could get for a fraction of the overall price, guess it wouldn't really make sense. We also liked the fact that we could leave the timeshare for our children/grandchildren. Does anyone know if this is still possible when buying re-sale? If the Elite status is truly the only benefit in buying direct, it doesn't make much sense. Thanks again!


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## Remy (Aug 22, 2011)

Elite isn't something you're even close to achieving with a 3400 point EOY. The lowest level Elite requires 14,000 points purchased direct (10s of thousands of dollars). You are paying more for no additional benefit.

http://www.hiltonloyalist.com/hgvc/hilton-grand-vacations-club-hgvc-elite-status-breakdown/

1. They go up. Taxes go up. Fees in the club go up. Open season rates go up. Guest certificate fees go up. etc.
2. It can matter, but probably not in your case. Unless you are in a high-demand property where you want a booking advantage at that specific resort, a low MF makes sense. A silver week probably doesn't. 3400 points severely restricts your vacation options for the fee you are paying. To get 7 nights at many resorts you'll need 3,500 to 4,800 for the smallest rooms.
3. There are no fees, but there are taxes.
4. $399 is the enrollment fee for HGVC.
5. Depends on when you want to go. 
6. I've seen people sneak kids into a studio. Occupancy is a rule and I advise following them.

They can't stop a resale. They can buy it back in your place at a resort like the Las Vegas Strip, but while spite can be a strong motivator, it isn't likely they will overpay just to keep you out.


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## Talent312 (Aug 22, 2011)

I concur with all those who said *RESCIND*.
When you do, follow the instructions in your Contract to the letter,
even if you think that there's a better way. Deviate and it won't count.

As others say, resale could net you an _every-year_ TS for 1/3 the price.
Its a very flexible, consumer-friendly system, but do not allow yourself
to be bamboozled by cretinous salesmen who infect  every TS program.


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## timeos2 (Aug 22, 2011)

Absolutely rescind ASAP. This is not a good deal, doesn't really fit your use plans and you can get far better with a resale purchase.


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## siesta (Aug 22, 2011)

Rescind and buy resale, you are needlessly throwing away thousands of dollars.


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## chriskre (Aug 22, 2011)

I agree with everyone to rescind.  
I also don't think it's a bad idea to just purchase a biennial resale.

I bought a gold 5000 EOY resale and to be honest with you, I've used the open season rates more than my points.  I still have 2000 points leftover that I'll be saving to use next year.  I've taken two vactations with those 3000 points and 3 other open season vacations including 3 bedrooms in Orlando and 2 bedrooms in Ft. Myers.  

I know that I was discouraged from buying such a small package but it has totally been enough for me.  Of course that could be because I own 6 other timeshares in other systems so if you're considering owning other TS systems you may want to stick with a biennial.    

I bought from Seth and I believe he gave me a good deal.  He was also very easy to work with.  All done by email.


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## Aquaman55 (Aug 23, 2011)

A lot of well-meaning people are hurling advice at you like rescind, rescind, rescind. In short, only you and your family can decide if it is worth it. I have purchased HGVC points from the developer (will buy some resale in the future,) and am very happy with it. Hilton is a good organization. However, there is a learning curve to properly using the points. If money is an issue, you can also use bonus points to pay MF. You can do this over two years. Good luck!


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## loafingcactus (Aug 23, 2011)

In general, I agree that "rescind" is a bit too much of a reflex and I also bought from a developer.

However, in this case there are two problems.  First, it doesn't sound like the purchase was a good match for this family.

Second, buying a lower tier item from the developer really doesn't make sense.  A Flamingo 3,500 point just went without a buyer on eBay last night.  If one is going to buy from the developer, at least buy a higher tier item where you can get a good percentage of your money back.  Not mention I can't see paying the same mf's as someone with a high demand week who is getting more points.  And then you've got the restricted choices about when/where to go.  Three strikes on the item, retail or resale.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 23, 2011)

*Rescind And Research*

*You can always buy from the developer again but you will only have one opportunity to rescind.*

Give yourself time to research and learn what is best for you and your family.

Here are examples of current *asking* prices for HGVC Las Vegas Strip for 3400 points. 
from Judy Kowloski's website (http://judikoz.com/Search.aspx)

$2,000 Biennial-Odd
$2,500 Biennial-even
$3,400 Biennial-Odd
$3,500 Biennial-even
$4,750 Biennial-Odd
$5,000 Biennial-even

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you change your mind after the 10 day period, these are the prices you will have to sell your week for. It's a buyers market (more sellers than buyers).

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG


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## simba7 (Aug 23, 2011)

Thank you all so much for all of the advice...I am so glad I found this website and the wealth of knowledge everyone shares! We signed last Tuesday so I am still within the 10-day period. The only "perk" we received was that they allowed us to add-on a day to our trip using the HGVC "open-season" $80 rate, which hopefully won't complicate the rescission process. Saving thousands of dollars is well worth paying full price for one night!!! I am drafting my rescission letter right now...still excited about the prospect of HGVC timesharing, but will definitely do so more research to see what type of point-package would best suit our needs. Thanks to all again!!!


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## siesta (Aug 23, 2011)

simba7 said:


> Thank you all so much for all of the advice...I am so glad I found this website and the wealth of knowledge everyone shares! We signed last Tuesday so I am still within the 10-day period. The only "perk" we received was that they allowed us to add-on a day to our trip using the HGVC "open-season" $80 rate, which hopefully won't complicate the rescission process. Saving thousands of dollars is well worth paying full price for one night!!! I am drafting my rescission letter right now...still excited about the prospect of HGVC timesharing, but will definitely do so more research to see what type of point-package would best suit our needs. Thanks to all again!!!


 fyi, rescission period for florida is 10 days and nevada is 5 days.


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## simba7 (Aug 23, 2011)

Ohh!! The contract is for a Nevada property, but was signed in Florida.  The recission paragraph says the agreement is governed by Florida statutes and states under Florida law we have 10-days. Since the contract says "10-days" we should be fine, right? I hope that's not going to be a problem.....


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## siesta (Aug 23, 2011)

simba7 said:


> Ohh!! The contract is for a Nevada property, but was signed in Florida.  The recission paragraph says the agreement is governed by Florida statutes and states under Florida law we have 10-days. Since the contract says "10-days" we should be fine, right? I hope that's not going to be a problem.....


 you should have rescission documents provided with the contract, if that says 10 days, then you should have 10 days.


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## Remy (Aug 23, 2011)

alwysonvac said:


> *You can always buy from the developer again but you will only have one opportunity to rescind.*
> 
> Give yourself time to research and learn what is best for you and your family.
> 
> ...



I'd add to this sage advice by noting that those prices are only as high as they are because Hilton exercises Right of First Refusal at this resort. That could change in the long-term. When it does, the week will be worth hundreds (maybe), not thousands.

For comparison sake, in the past 6 months eBay has had two HGVC Las Vegas Flamingo Annual Platinum weeks (4,800 points) with a $740 MF that went for about $3,000.

Rescind isn't just the knee-jerk advice, it's the best advice.


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## kool_kat (Aug 23, 2011)

I was in the same situation you were in when I went to a presentation at the Las Vegas strip in 2008.  I also bought an EOY through Hilton for this property for around $10k.  As soon as I got home, I found TUG & received the same advice you are getting now.  I immediately rescinded and never looked back.

I contacted Seth (one of the two recommended resalers on the board) & ended up buying an every year at Flamingo for nearly half the price (& it can be found for a lot cheaper than this now).  

I still wanted to be part of the HGVC family and don't regret buying resale for a minute, but I would have regretted the thousands I would have wasted by buying retail.

Rescind, read, & then decide...you won't be sorry.

P.S.  Some of my favorite advice you've been given is that you can buy from the developer anytime (& that "great" deal will always be available) but you can only rescind once).


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## robertr55 (Aug 24, 2011)

One more reason (that someone else might have mentioned and I might have missed ) to buy HGVC resale rather than from the developer is because I think it's the only group that offers you the same support regardless of how you initially made your purchase. Specifically, for a small fee you can convert any HGVC points you don't use in a year to non-expiring HHonor points...I believe all of the others (Hyatt, Marriott, etc.) require you to buy from the developer to get this priviledge.


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## simba7 (Aug 24, 2011)

Thank you all again for the input....I actually sent out the letter this morning via USPS priority mail (certified, return receipt just to be sure). I sent it to the exact address listed in the last paragraph about the rescission. After searching some older posts on the forum about this subject, it seems that this should be enough to get out of the contract (as well as all of the finance papers we signed!). I did notice a few people mentioned faxing the letter as well, is this something I should do as well? The paragraph only says to send written notice to the specified address. Also, the only fax number provided in my documents is on the business card for the QA manager who had us sign the paperwork. Well, now on to the next step of doing doing plenty of research here on TUG! Thanks!!!


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## Talent312 (Aug 24, 2011)

It may take some time for HGVC to unwind the deal, but do not worry.
Per reports we've seen, if you did as instructed, they will do the right thing.

I have not heard of HGVC giving anyone a problem, but you should know
that, if anyone does try to contact you, you have no duty to talk to them.

Aside from the Sales Division, HGVC is otherwise fairly consumer-friendly
and its customer reps quite helpful.  All in all, its a fine system, once you
get thru the gate.


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## Zac495 (Aug 24, 2011)

Glad you rescinded!!! You will find this so cheaply. I just sold 5000 EY points for 4500. Also, read around - make sure HGVC is the right one. I love Hilton, but there are other good programs like Marriott (not as good lately in my opinion) and Hyatt. Take your time and read and make the decision that is right for YOU.
Good luck!


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## rgong (Aug 31, 2011)

simba7 said:


> Thank you all again for the input....I actually sent out the letter this morning via USPS priority mail (certified, return receipt just to be sure). I sent it to the exact address listed in the last paragraph about the rescission. After searching some older posts on the forum about this subject, it seems that this should be enough to get out of the contract (as well as all of the finance papers we signed!). I did notice a few people mentioned faxing the letter as well, is this something I should do as well? The paragraph only says to send written notice to the specified address. Also, the only fax number provided in my documents is on the business card for the QA manager who had us sign the paperwork. Well, now on to the next step of doing doing plenty of research here on TUG! Thanks!!!



Sorry to jump in here late. You ABSOLUTELY did the right thing by rescinding. I made the *exact* same purchase as you did at the end of January after a presentation at the Parc Soleil - same package (3400 pts EOY) at the exact same price (scary). I rescinded after finding TUG. Did about another 4 months of research (the mods of this board recommend that you do 6 months research before doing anything - oh well) and ended up buying HGVC resale at a fraction of the retail price. Alwysonvac is correct - in your research, go to Judi Kozlowski's website and take a look at the prices of the listings for 3400 pts EOY packages for the LV Strip. The lowest price in the bunch is likely Judi's best educated guess as to the minimum price that will pass Hilton's right-of-first-refusal (yet another topic for another post). By the way - Judi Kozlowski is one of the highly respected brokers on this msg board for HGVC resales and her website has more HGVC resale listings than just about any around. Someone also mentioned Seth Nock who also as a number of HGVC resale properties listed on his site.

Bottom line, you should be able to end up with the exact same package at about 20-25% of the retail price. I ended up buying a resale annual package with more points at about 1/3 the retail bucks I almost spent on a lower point EOY purchase. And as far as home resort - I purchased resale at the Flamingo (Las Vegas) but it's a coin-flip as to whether I will ever visit there. You'll hear it more than once in the HGVC forum that "points are points" and unless a home resort is really important to you (and often it is), you usually try to maximize the number of points for the lowest maintenance fee, as long as the initial purchase price isn't too out of hand. Again, another topic entirely which has been discussed multiple times in the past on this forum.

Back to the rescission - I rescinded on day 9 of the 10 day window according to the instructions in the contract, and about 10 days after that I was credited the complete deposit on my credit card. As Talent312 mentioned, HGVC will do the right thing and you shouldn't expect any problem as long as you followed the rescission instructions as outlined in the contract.

Good luck and welcome to TUG!


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## carl2591 (Aug 31, 2011)

*hilton grand vacation club*



Aquaman55 said:


> A lot of well-meaning people are hurling advice at you like rescind, rescind, rescind. In short, only you and your family can decide if it is worth it. I have purchased HGVC points from the developer (will buy some resale in the future,) and am very happy with it. Hilton is a good organization. However, there is a learning curve to properly using the points. If money is an issue, you can also use bonus points to pay MF. You can do this over two years. Good luck!





I smell a shrill... 

only one post and its for keeping the over priced contract... 

lets guess who he/she works for....    me me me  pick me...

ok my guess is HGVC... Yourrrrr right....


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## jehb2 (Sep 1, 2011)

Aquaman55 said:


> A lot of well-meaning people are hurling advice at you like rescind, rescind, rescind. In short, only you and your family can decide if it is worth it. I have purchased HGVC points from the developer (will buy some resale in the future,) and am very happy with it. Hilton is a good organization. However, there is a learning curve to properly using the points. If money is an issue, you can also use bonus points to pay MF. You can do this over two years. Good luck!



The above post is bad on so many levels my head is spinning.  I am glad you were able rescind.  

One important thing as you begin your research for a resale.  Your original purchase is 3,400 gold season points.  Gold season is almost always during the school year so if your kids are in school this will not work for you.  Consider  at the minimum 4800 platinum points.  That will get you into a 1 bdrm unit year round.  On the upside you can find such a unit every year for a fraction of your original purchase.


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## jehb2 (Sep 1, 2011)

simba7 said:


> Hello!
> 4...it also mentions a "first year activation fee" listed on page 151 for $399.
> 
> 5) They gave us 6800 bonus points and said they could be spread over the first five years making it feel like an "annual" plan. After reading the fine print, it seems the bonus points are only good for 2 years after being awarded.
> ...



4.  That's if you buy a Hilton affiliate property as opposed to a property originally built by Hilton.

5.  Additionally, you have to wait 6 months into ownership before you can use the points so you really only have a 18 month window.

6.  I wouldn't.

That said.  I have been a Hilton owner for 12 years and I absolutely love it. We have had the most awesome vacations. Our kids are 4 & 6 and have been going to Hawaii every year since they were 6 months old. This summer we did a 5 week road trip with 2 weeks in NYC and a few days in Montreal and Niagara Falls.  There is no way we could do this every year without timeshares.  You and your family are going to have some great vacations.


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## simba7 (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks for the info! Yes, they left me a message saying the rescission was accepted and my credit card was refunded so thankfully it all worked out! I have been reading over a lot of the info. posted in these forums and now I'm leaning towards a one bedroom platinum purchase (maybe even 2BR if we wait and save up a bit). Still debating the EOY since we usually only take one trip a year, and every other year my sister (who also has a timeshare) has the family get together with her. Just wondering if we bought an EOY and found that we wanted more time, is it possible to supplement with another EOY HGVC unit? Would we be able to utilize the points together if needed, or are the points treated completely separate? Thanks!


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## linsj (Sep 1, 2011)

simba7 said:


> Just wondering if we bought an EOY and found that we wanted more time, is it possible to supplement with another EOY HGVC unit? Would we be able to utilize the points together if needed, or are the points treated completely separate? Thanks!



If you buy two wholly-owned HGVC units--as opposed to one being an affiliate--your points will be merged into one account.


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## travelguy (Sep 2, 2011)

linsj said:


> If you buy two wholly-owned HGVC units--as opposed to one being an affiliate--your points will be merged into one account.



My personal experience has been that HGVC combined all my HGVC properties into one account even though only one was a non-affiliate HGVC.  I did jump through some hoops but it wasn't too bad as I recall.


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## ns_guy (Sep 4, 2011)

*Advice on different contract*

Hello, looking for advice on my own contract - different from the original poster.

Attended a timeshare presentation today, provided a deposit on the following contract but am thinking of rescinding. Here is the contract:

Las Vegas Strip
5800-point 2BR Gold Season
Every-year contract
20,000 bonus points valid for two years
Maintenance fees $695.84

Cost $28,990.00

I figure it is costing around $1.50 per point.

Resale on a 5000 two-bedroom is going for around $6700-$7000 I see.

I'm wondering if the 20,000 bonus points make it worthwhile to purchase from HGVC directly versus buying resale for a fraction of the cost.

I signed the deposit offer as the bonus points "appear" to make it worthwhile to me, for this reason alone:

-Planning on taking a two week vacation to tropics (Bora Bora, Fiji, etc.) which have a room price of at least $800 per night.
-$800 x 13 nights = $10,400
-Using RCI search engine, sales rep showed us that one week costs 5400 points, so points are worth around $20,000
-If that is true, then I paid about $9000 for a 5800/year 2BR gold unit

So - should I rescind (by mailing via certified mail) or continue?

Thanks!


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## siesta (Sep 4, 2011)

ns_guy said:


> Hello, looking for advice on my own contract - different from the original poster.
> 
> Attended a timeshare presentation today, provided a deposit on the following contract but am thinking of rescinding. Here is the contract:
> 
> ...


 the salesman has fogged up your math, you are off. Without getting into those specifics, are you sure they werent throwing in hhonors points? Not points for use within hgvc....


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## Brkian (Sep 5, 2011)

ns_guy said:


> Hello, looking for advice on my own contract - different from the original poster.
> 
> Attended a timeshare presentation today, provided a deposit on the following contract but am thinking of rescinding. Here is the contract:
> 
> ...



The fly in the ointment is that you almost certainly WON'T be able to find the $800/night resorts in the RCI system, and if you do, the demand would be off the charts and almost impossible for you to book the dates you want.  I just did a quick check of RCI and found 1 available room in Fiji, and it was in an area that has nightly room rates of $80-130 per hotels.com.  Now I'll admit that I don't know squat about the south pacific, but I think it is a pipe dream to successfully book the trip you have outlined.  

The bottom line on points (bonus or clubpoints) is that they are worth roughly $1000 per 5000 points.  So, you are getting $4k worth of points for $20k.  Rescind, there is no math that makes your developers contract a viable deal unless you are hellbent on reaching elite status despite the costs involved in doing so.  Let me make that simpler - Rescind.  Do it today.  

Just for reference, I bought a Las Vegas Strip 3br penthouse annual 9600 point unit, resale, within the past 12 months for under half of your price.  Rescind.


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## ns_guy (Sep 5, 2011)

siesta said:


> the salesman has fogged up your math, you are off. Without getting into those specifics, are you sure they werent throwing in hhonors points? Not points for use within hgvc....



They are definitely HVGC points, with an expiry date of two years.


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## ns_guy (Sep 5, 2011)

Brkian said:


> The fly in the ointment is that you almost certainly WON'T be able to find the $800/night resorts in the RCI system, and if you do, the demand would be off the charts and almost impossible for you to book the dates you want.  I just did a quick check of RCI and found 1 available room in Fiji, and it was in an area that has nightly room rates of $80-130 per hotels.com.  Now I'll admit that I don't know squat about the south pacific, but I think it is a pipe dream to successfully book the trip you have outlined.
> 
> The bottom line on points (bonus or clubpoints) is that they are worth roughly $1000 per 5000 points.  So, you are getting $4k worth of points for $20k.  Rescind, there is no math that makes your developers contract a viable deal unless you are hellbent on reaching elite status despite the costs involved in doing so.  Let me make that simpler - Rescind.  Do it today.
> 
> Just for reference, I bought a Las Vegas Strip 3br penthouse annual 9600 point unit, resale, within the past 12 months for under half of your price.  Rescind.



Thanks for the reply so quickly. The valuation of the bonus points is what I was having difficulty figuring out. The lower valuation of the points definitely makes this deal not worthwhile, so I will rescind and considering looking for a resale unit with better value.

I'll rescind the offer tomorrow via registered mail.

Looking forward to following this forum. Cheers.


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## totallybilal (Sep 5, 2011)

Just purchased a 5000 point EOY for HGVC International Drive literally yesterday Sept 4th at  Parc Soleil Office for $15270. After finding TUGS, I will definitely rescind, the only thing I'm concerned about is, will I get my closing cost of $595 back. At the end of the day, I consider it the cost of learning but It would be nice to get that back.


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