# Why would Wyndham resale points be worthless/ useless after March 2009 ?



## scottmindib (Dec 26, 2008)

I had just read a thread about how a sales rep said resale points were going to be worthless and useless  after March 2009.  Is there anything to this other than not being able to transfer points between owners accounts or am I missing something here that affects resale point owners?

Is this just another sales rep lie or are resale points going to be voided somehow? Will we still be able to use points and make reservations with resale points ?

Thanks

Scott


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## timeos2 (Dec 26, 2008)

*The Weasels speak - lies are sure to follow*



scottmindib said:


> I had just read a thread about how a sales rep said resale points were going to be worthless and useless  after March 2009.  Is there anything to this other than not being able to transfer points between owners accounts or am I missing something here that affects resale point owners?
> 
> Is this just another sales rep lie or are resale points going to be voided somehow? Will we still be able to use points and make reservations with resale points ?
> 
> ...



100% lies. There is absolutely no difference between a resale point purchased today, 2/28/09 or 3/1/09. While boneheaded actions Wyndham has taken over the past 4 -5 years have managed to push resale value of FSP points to $.02 or less (maybe $.01 or less), there are intrinsic value/rights that come with ownership of those points they cannot take away and that are no different than the $.15/point points purchased from such a lying Weasel at retail. None.  The same restrictions/changes  that apply to resale points also  apply equally to retail points  So buying retail only benefits the lying Weasels and costs you $.13-.14 per point (tens of thousands of dollars for the average buyer) to get nothing of value. You wish to support the lying Weasel Clan then by all means believe them and pay too much. But if you just want to buy and use FSP Points in a great system (the sales and customer service suck but the actual system and resorts are a great value perhaps one of the best buys in all of timeshare at resale rates) then buy cheap at resale and enjoy. 

The scare tactics will never end. Always tell any Weasel you deal with you will NEVER even consider retail purchase as long as they have the total limitation on renting to other FSP owners. Repeat as often as necessary.


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## alexadeparis (Jan 25, 2009)

I had one crazy rep tell me that my points would only be good at places that were as old or older than where my points are deeded - and that I would NEVER get to Hawaii no matter what - I asked him where this was and he said it was in the FSP annual book, which I would also never get because I was resale, but was still bound by it. WTF ?!?!?!


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## muskitties (Jan 25, 2009)

I must admit that I worry about this issues as well.  As the recent owner of 347,000 FSP resale points (purchased last Fall for $2500, which included closing costs), I am very happy with Wyndham so far.  But my usage of these FSP points would be dramatically limited if I was restricted to only using the two resorts where my FSP point contracts are deeded.

It seems to me that based on recent experience, if Wyndham attempted any new strike against resale owners, it would be in the form of dramaticly increased fees.  For example, they might attempt to charge a new fee on resale point purchasures who book time at FSP resorts that they are not deeded to.  I have no idea whether such a new fee would be lawful, but I wouldn't be shocked if Wyndham attempted such a mean spirited move.  I suppose our best defense against such a move would be the possibility that individual resorts would attempt to leave the FSP system if Wyndham became that hostile to owners.  

For what its worth, I attended an "owner's update" meeting this weekend with a Wyndham sales representative who made no such threats.  While he advised that my resale contracts are "flagged" in the Wyndham system, he only pointed out two differences between retail and resale points.  First, he pointed out that I can not qualify as a VIP with resale points, and second,  that I can only use RCI weeks and not RCI points.  Other than these two restrictions (which I was already aware of), he mentioned no other differences between retail and resale points.  I sure hope it stays that way!


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## Caius (Jan 26, 2009)

Alexa and muskitties:

The "your points won't get you into the GOOD resorts" angle by sales has been around for a while, and I believe has been directed at retail purchasers who own at older resorts as well.  Rest assured, it's just another sleazy sales tactic (lie).

You pay an FSP program fee along with your MFs, which puts you in the FSP points system, just like retail buyers.  I'm not saying Wyndham won't come up with new and creative ways to screw us all, but look for those in letters from Deanne, not from the lips of salesmen.




alexadeparis said:


> I had one crazy rep tell me that my points would only be good at places that were as old or older than where my points are deeded - and that I would NEVER get to Hawaii no matter what - I asked him where this was and he said it was in the FSP annual book, which I would also never get because I was resale, but was still bound by it. WTF ?!?!?!


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## theo (Jan 26, 2009)

*I admire eloquence...*



Caius said:


> I'm not saying Wyndham won't come up with new and creative ways to screw us all, but look for those in letters from Deanne, not from the lips of salesmen.



Beautifully (and oh so truthfully) stated.....


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## Bill4728 (Jan 26, 2009)

Here is how the "no transfer policy" makes a FSP much less valuable. :


Timeshare Von said:


> As the owner of a very dinky points package (77k) this is not good news for me!  Last year I rented out my points and this year I supplemented the through a private rental for a say in New Orleans this summer.
> 
> Not having such flexibility will greatly reduce the value and use of my 77k points!


So for people with small accounts, who once were able to rent out their unused points or rent points needed for a bigger vacation the "no transfer policy" makes a FSP much less valuable.


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## dcdowden (Jan 26, 2009)

Scott,
The sales agent that told you that resale points would be worthless after March 1 must be a total idiot.  Why would anyone buy anything from the sales agent (i.e, Wyndham) that would become worthless in less than two months on the resale market? Unfortunately due to Wyndham's deliberate actions to devalue the resale value of their properties, ALL Wyndham ownership interests are already worth less than 10 cents on the original dollar. When will Wyndham wake up and realize that they need to demonstrate to owners that their ownership is maintaining a good portion of it's original value - otherwise why would anyone buy directly from Wyndham?
Doug


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## Charlie D. (Jan 26, 2009)

Do you actually think Wyndham is losing sleep over not being able to sell a TS to a TUG forum member? Probably less than 2% of them would purchase a retail package anyway. I noticed that no one has commented on the one post that said the salesman actually shot pretty straight with the poster.

We have set through a few updates and know that basically three things are going to get brought up. 1. They’d sure like to see us get to VIP Gold versus our current VIP and point out the additional benefits that would go with it. 2. We could lose our PIC points if the underlying resort ever goes to a points system and 3. We could save in MF/k pts by trading in our current TS for one currently being developed.  None of these represent a non-truth but all of them involve spending more money.  The salesman is trying to get us to part with more money and I’m just waiting to get the restaurant coupon or whatever it is. 

Charlie D.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 26, 2009)

I purchased from the developer, Charlie D., and what is your point, exactly?  Because I think it's okay for us to say that developer purchases are a waste at this point, knowing what we all know now, and with all of the losses of benefits that we are currently seeing.

The salespeople at Wyndham should be monitored and forced to tell the truth, but the truth hurts business.


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## Charlie D. (Jan 26, 2009)

Cindy, you have a problem understanding my point?  Did you buy your Wyndham TS(s) from the developer after you joined TUG?  I doubt it.  I purchased retail initially but it was before I did more research and found TUG and learned about the resale possibilities. I was trying to make two points. 1. The sales people do not always lie. 2. Very few TUG members are going to buy retail from Wyndham.  

Charlie D.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 26, 2009)

Charlie D. said:


> Cindy, you have a problem understanding my point?  Did you buy your Wyndham TS(s) from the developer after you joined TUG?  I doubt it.  I purchased retail initially but it was before I did more research and found TUG and learned about the resale possibilities. I was trying to make two points. 1. The sales people do not always lie. 2. Very few TUG members are going to buy retail from Wyndham.
> 
> Charlie D.



Honest salespeople are a rarity in the timeshare industry, and with Wyndham there are even less.  It would be nice to meet one of the honest salespeople, but so far, it hasn't happened for me in recent years.

Anyone who is concerned about our losses of benefits should sign the petition.  Go to www.wyndhamowners.org and look under Active Topics.  Or check the thread here on TUG about the petition, where there is a link.  If you want to see a list of lost benefits over the past two years, that is an easy thing to find on the Wyndham Owners' group.  Educating people on these issues is so important, and we are hoping to stop these scare tactics by the salespeople we encounter while staying at Wyndham resorts.  We need to challenge these statements by salespeople and record them, then let Deanne Gabel hear the lies they tell.  

Resales could truly be de-valued at some point, but not to a drastic point quite yet, and we are very concerned that Wyndham could go too far.


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## donnaval (Jan 27, 2009)

I did not endure a presentation during my recent stay at Palm-Aire, but the "concierge" who tried to hold my parking pass hostage kept saying I had to take the update to know what was going to happen in March, that the whole program would be changing in March.  She was not a sales person.  I heard her repeating this several times during the course of our stay to other people she was trying to sign up.  It was kind of easy to pass off the "lying salesman" aspect of this kind of thing, but for the meeting setter to be insisting to everyone that massive changes are coming in March seems ominous to me, especially in light of Wyndham's continual outrageous theft of our ownership values.

Also, I was very discouraged by the lack of caring many Wyndham owners exhibited when I tried to engage them in conversation about the changes Wyndham has made and is making to our program.  Nobody I spoke with cared much about the recent changes.  Some who seemed to care were sure that I merely misunderstood what was happening, because "Wyndham would never do that," and "our salesman just told us we could rent our points to pay our fees" and stuff like that.  After a few days I gave up


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## Caius (Jan 28, 2009)

Charlie D. said:


> Do you actually think Wyndham is losing sleep over not being able to sell a TS to a TUG forum member? Probably less than 2% of them would purchase a retail package anyway. I noticed that no one has commented on the one post that said the salesman actually shot pretty straight with the poster.



Charlie, you're misreading the OP (as did the person who said the salesman was speaking the truth).  Sales was not talking to the OP about the points transfer right being lost in March, they were telling the OP that his/her resale points would be restricted to their home resort in March.  That IS a MAJOR lie, and this tactic on the part of sales has been reported for quite some time.  It's a shame that the "We're not going to let you into Bonnet Creek with your resale points" or "your crummy old Pagosa points" sales approach keeps being used, but it does, and I personally have heard it.


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## Caius (Jan 28, 2009)

Charlie D. said:


> Cindy, you have a problem understanding my point?  Did you buy your Wyndham TS(s) from the developer after you joined TUG?  I doubt it.  I purchased retail initially but it was before I did more research and found TUG and learned about the resale possibilities. I was trying to make two points. 1. The sales people do not always lie. 2. Very few TUG members are going to buy retail from Wyndham.
> 
> Charlie D.



You are right, sales does not always lie, I've actually been to more than one very pleasant owner update and had very civil (and truthful) conversations with members of the sales staff.  I was responding above to a poster who WAS lied to, about the specific thing they were told by sales.  If the OP decides they want to buy directly from Wyndham for the legitimate benefits received for doing so, I'd tell them to go ahead.  But they shouldn't do so based on a bogus scare tactic.  Wyndham was not being bashed in this thread, nor was I saying all sales reps lie.


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