# Confused in Vegas :)



## pharmacistking (Nov 5, 2019)

Hello

Working with a broker I have 3 options for a 7k first buy in Vegas. 5000 for Flamingo 6500 For BLVD or 6000 for Paradise. All the same closing costs.

Which would you choose if at all?

Thank you


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## Passepartout (Nov 5, 2019)

My $.02 worth. Location, location, location. Flamingo. Why go to Vegas if not to the Strip?


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## PigsDad (Nov 5, 2019)

Since I would never use my Home Week, I would look at the maintenance fees.  I think the Boulevard location has the lowest, but compare and see what the breakeven time would be given the higher cost.

Kurt


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## dayooper (Nov 5, 2019)

You can’t go wrong with any of them. I would go with The Boulevard because of the MF’s, but that may get ROFRed. Not that you shouldn’t try, just beware that could happen. The Flamingo has no ROFR, but the MF’s are about $200 more a year. Even Paradise would work!


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## tompalm (Nov 5, 2019)

The Flamingo is a much older timeshare and might cost more to maintain during the next 20 years.  So the Blvd is a better timeshare.  Make an offer to pay less there and they will probably take it. Forget Paradise.


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## GT75 (Nov 5, 2019)

If you don't plan to utilize for your home week then compare MFs (remember, this is most important because it will be every year), points & buy-in cost.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 6, 2019)

We own at BLV. I believe there isn’t a lot of difference in MF’s between all the resorts so, I’m not sure yearly fees would be a deal breaker. Flamingo recently went through a renovation if my memory is intact. If you’re looking for points at the lowest cost, I’d go with Flamingo. If you’re looking for location, I’d go with Flamingo. If you’re looking for a more complete resort experience, I’d go with Blvd. if you want to be a little off the strip and slightly wpaway for all the action, then I’d go with Paradise.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

All work. You should also consider rental potential if you can't travel. Paradise is closest to the convention center so you could rent during CES or other convention to less price conscious business crowd. Raiders coming in 2021.

What is the breakeven for each? Blvd MF is about $900, Paradise $80 more($980) and Flamingo $107 more ($1088) so almost $200/year difference but lower price.

So it  takes 5 years to BE for every $1000 in purchase price diff. with BLVD vs. Flamingo. BLVD least likely to pass ROFR.

I would  low bid and see what you get. Can't go wrong with any of these prices.


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## Hsahota1 (Nov 6, 2019)

This time of the year your chances of passing ROFR are high so I would go with Boulevard. 

 2nd option Paradise.


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## dayooper (Nov 6, 2019)

Hsahota1 said:


> This time of the year your chances of passing ROFR are high so I would go with Boulevard.
> 
> 2nd option Paradise.



With the prices that are quoted, your break even point between Paradise and Flamingo is roughly 10 years. In my mind, too much can change over that time. Due to location and price, I would would choose Flamingo over Paradise. Boulevard would still be my 1st choice, though.


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## Hsahota1 (Nov 6, 2019)

dayooper said:


> With the prices that are quoted, your break even point between Paradise and Flamingo is roughly 10 years. In my mind, too much can change over that time. Due to location and price, I would would choose Flamingo over Paradise. Boulevard would still be my 1st choice, though.



sorry I meant Flamingo as my 2nd option as well. 

it’s still early in the west coast and coffee hasn’t kicked in yet


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## brp (Nov 6, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> All work. You should also consider rental potential if you can't travel. Paradise is closest to the convention center so you could rent during CES or other convention to less price conscious business crowd. Raiders coming in 2021.



This might work for CES where someone might want to stay a week. For the Raiders, it may be more problematic as, by rule, it has to be Home Week, and football fans likely won't stay a week. This is by the rules, of course.

Cheers.


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## Finsadbel (Nov 6, 2019)

Elara seems to be selling at low prices, also with relatively low MF’s. We bought ELARA at the end of last year and they were not ROFR’ing anything. I don’t know what they are doing now. Check with one of the many recommended brokers and I am sure they can tell you your best options.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

Re: Raiders you can also split your home week and pay for full housekeeping midweek after they leave and use the rest of the week.

@pharmacistking if you plan to use home week 95% of time, I recommend Elara. Otherwise, lowbid all 3. Ask to have them pay trxn fees and go with the best deal breakeven and dollar-wise.


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## pharmacistking (Nov 6, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Re: Raiders you can also split your home week and pay for full housekeeping midweek after they leave and use the rest of the week.
> 
> @pharmacistking if you plan to use home week 95% of time, I recommend Elara. Otherwise, lowbid all 3. Ask to have them pay trxn fees and go with the best deal breakeven and dollar-wise.



Vegas is not planned at all. Points with low mf is key


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

pharmacistking said:


> Vegas is not planned at all. Points with low mf is key



How long do you plan to own?


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## pharmacistking (Nov 6, 2019)

Tough question. 10 years probably.


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## pianodinosaur (Nov 6, 2019)

I own at HGVC on the Blvd but I have only stayed there once.  It has a great swimming pool.  I stayed several times in the Paradise facility when it was known as HGVC at The Las Vegas Hilton.  I loved it because we could use all the facilities at The Hilton and bill them to our room.  This really racked up the HHONORS points.   The timeshare is right by a monorail stop.  That makes it very easy to get around Las Vegas.  I really miss The Las Vegas Hilton.  I don’t particularly care for the casino now that Westgate has taken over.  I also stayed several times at HGVC at The Flamingo while the Flamingo was managed by Hilton.  Unfortunately, The Flamingo is no longer managed by Hilton.  However, HGVC at The Flamingo is also right by a monorail stop.  I have also stayed one time at The Elara.  It was very nice and connects right into the shopping area at Planet Hollywood.  I have never stayed at Trump Tower.

Las Vegas is usually pretty easy to book so it really does not matter that much where you own.  However, I think the 6500 point package will give you the most for you MFs.

Welcome to TUG and to HGVC.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

Here's how they rank from your current assumptions: (Assuming MF grows at even rate and not taking time value of money into account):

10 years or more ownership:

1) *BLVD *$6,500 + (10 * $900) = *$15,500 *after 10 years
2) *Paradise* $6,000 + (10*980) = *$15,800*
3) *Flamingo *$5000  + (10 years *$1087 MF) = *$15,870* after 10 years.


If you plan to own 5 years then:

1) *Flamingo $10,435* over 5 years.
2) *Paradise $10,900*
3) *BLVD: $11,000*

Of course if you can negotiate a lower bid or that seller pays transaction fees that changes the equation.

If you are not sure how long you will own, Paradise gives you the best hedge option for all scenarios.

Overall the differences < $565 over 5 - 10 years so not significant. Get the best deal you can among the three because you are splitting hairs.


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## brp (Nov 6, 2019)

@CalGalTraveler nice analysis. OTOH, this shows that, even after 10 years, we're talking less than 400 bucks total difference, so $40/year. Meaning it really is just about a wash.

Cheers.


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## brp (Nov 6, 2019)

pianodinosaur said:


> I stayed several times in the Paradise facility when it was known as HGVC at The Las Vegas Hilton.  I loved it because we could use all the facilities at The Hilton and bill them to our room.



I liked it when the still had Quark's Bar at the Las Vegas Hilton...Warp Core Breach, anyone?

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

brp said:


> @CalGalTraveler nice analysis. OTOH, this shows that, even after 10 years, we're talking less than 400 bucks total difference, so $40/year. Meaning it really is just about a wash.
> 
> Cheers.



Yep, totally agree. You beat me as I was just editing to add the last line to my post.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

BTW...with all of the changes in the industry, I would not plan a horizon of more than 5 years even if you want to own it for longer.


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## Fredflintstone (Nov 6, 2019)

I love Vegas...16 hour drive from here.

Isn’t there a lot of timeshares to choose from there? Some, I know, offer regular shuttles to the strip. Maybe look at the best MF for your travel dollar. 

I know...cheapskate is my middle name.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dayooper (Nov 6, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> BTW...with all of the changes in the industry, I would not plan a horizon of more than 5 years even if you want to own it for longer.



This. It’s why I think that The Boulevard is the best option. With a +$1500 difference in price and -$200 difference in MF over The Flamingo, that will be made up in 8 years. With Paradise, it will be a 10 year break even point over The Flamingo, but The Boulevard only has a 5 year break even over Paradise. This is why I would rank the purchases in this order: 1. Boulevard, 2. Flamingo, 3. Paradise. If you can get any of them cheaper, I would move that one to the top.

One last thing to think of. If you decide on Boulevard or Paradise, go through the ROFR process and it gets exercised, someone could see that Flamingo unit as a great deal and buy it before the ROFR is exercised on the other property. If you purchase at The Flamingo, you know you will get it as it has no ROFR.


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## dayooper (Nov 6, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> I love Vegas...16 hour drive from here.
> 
> Isn’t there a lot of timeshares to choose from there? Some, I know, offer regular shuttles to the strip. Maybe look at the best MF for your travel dollar.
> 
> ...



The OP isn’t looking to stay in Vegas. They are looking to buy points in the HGVC system and use them at other resorts. Vegas has some of the cheapest MF’s in the system.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

dayooper said:


> This. It’s why I think that The Boulevard is the best option. With a +$1500 difference in price and -$200 difference in MF over The Flamingo, that will be made up in 8 years. With Paradise, it will be a 10 year break even point over The Flamingo, but The Boulevard only has a 5 year break even over Paradise. This is why I would rank the purchases in this order: 1. Boulevard, 2. Flamingo, 3. Paradise. If you can get any of them cheaper, I would move that one to the top.
> 
> One last thing to think of. If you decide on Boulevard or Paradise, go through the ROFR process and it gets exercised, someone could see that Flamingo unit as a great deal and buy it before the ROFR is exercised on the other property. If you purchase at The Flamingo, you know you will get it as it has no ROFR.



I am not following your math on this.

If you only have a 5 year horizon, the lowest purchase price will trump any MF savings if you include both purchase price and MF in the calculation.

If you plan to own 5 years (purchase price + (5* MF) then:

1) *Flamingo $10,435* over 5 years.
2) *Paradise $10,900*
3) *BLVD: $11,000*

The time value of money (which states that a $1 today is worth more than a $1 tomorrow) only makes this purchase price discount benefit greater because the extra $ spent on MF in future years is discounted.


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## dayooper (Nov 6, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I am not following your math on this.
> 
> If you only have a 5 year horizon, the lowest purchase price will trump any MF savings if you include both purchase price and MF in the calculation.
> 
> ...



Eh, I was trying to show something, but it’s not worth explaining again.


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## PigsDad (Nov 6, 2019)

brp said:


> I liked it when the still had Quark's Bar at the Las Vegas Hilton...*Warp Core Breach*, anyone?


Was that the name of those fish-bowl drinks w/ the dry ice in them?  I was there for a guys weekend many years back and I believe I drank 1 & 1/2 of those myself (I think they were meant to share between 3-4 people!).  Now I am a tall, big guy, but my buddies had to help me out of there that night and it couldn't have been easy.   It was a crazy, fun time! 

Kurt


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 6, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Was that the name of those fish-bowl drinks w/ the dry ice in them?  I was there for a guys weekend many years back and I believe I drank 1 & 1/2 of those myself (I think they were meant to share between 3-4 people!).  Now I am a tall, big guy, but my buddies had to help me out of there that night and it couldn't have been easy.   It was a crazy, fun time!
> 
> Kurt



LoL What happens in Vegas...


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## brp (Nov 7, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> Was that the name of those fish-bowl drinks w/ the dry ice in them?  I was there for a guys weekend many years back and I believe I drank 1 & 1/2 of those myself (I think they were meant to share between 3-4 people!).  Now I am a tall, big guy, but my buddies had to help me out of there that night and it couldn't have been easy.   It was a crazy, fun time!
> 
> Kurt



That was it, indeed. We never actually had it since it was that large. But we saw it enough times 

"A friend will bail you out of jail. A good friend will be sitting in the cell next to you saying 'damn, that was fun'."

Cheers.


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## PigsDad (Nov 7, 2019)

brp said:


> "A friend will bail you out of jail. A good friend will be sitting in the cell next to you saying 'damn, that was fun'."


That reminds me of another one:

"A friend will help you move.  A good friend will help you move... the body."  

Kurt


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## DazedandConfused (Nov 9, 2019)

make sure to also evaluate Elara


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## Finsadbel (Nov 9, 2019)

DazedandConfused said:


> make sure to also evaluate Elara



Agreed. Don’t mean to keep pushing Elara but that’s where we found our AMAZING deal!


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 9, 2019)

Finsadbel said:


> Agreed. Don’t mean to keep pushing Elara but that’s where we found our AMAZING deal!



Where did you find it listed? Most Elara's I see with decent HGVC points tend to have a premium. I would love to find a bargain HGVC Elara. Great resort.


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## escanoe (Nov 9, 2019)

TCHOA25 has a 7k platinum 1BR grand on eBay right now for $6,650. He lists the MF as $891.81 (membership fee not included). He has listed it at least three times and gradually been lowering the price. I bought my Flamingo from him and found him to be prompt, trustworthy, and a good communicator. I have no stake or involvement with the listing. I am looking for an Elara bargain too, but am taking my sweet time.



CalGalTraveler said:


> Where did you find it listed? Most Elara's I see with decent HGVC points tend to have a premium. I would love to find a bargain HGVC Elara. Great resort.


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## Finsadbel (Nov 9, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Where did you find it listed? Most Elara's I see with decent HGVC points tend to have a premium. I would love to find a bargain HGVC Elara. Great resort.


Try this site: www.timesharelink.com

Or 

https://m.timesharebrokersales.com/hilton-timeshares/index.php?limit=79#listsearch

That’s where we found ours. The company was out of Texas.


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## brp (Nov 10, 2019)

escanoe said:


> TCHOA has a 7k platinum 1BR grand on eBay right now for $6,650. He lists the MF as $891.81 (membership fee not included). He has listed it at least three times and gradually been lowering the price. I bought my Flamingo from him and found him to be prompt, trustworthy, and a good communicator. I have no stake or involvement with the listing. I am looking for an Elara bargain too, but am taking my sweet time.



I can also vouch for *tochoa25*. Just finished a deal with them for Paradise and found them fast, efficient and easy to work with. Another option (this is what I did) is to contact them after the listing expires and make an offer outside of eBay. Perfectly within rules., AFAIK, and they do work this way.

Cheers.


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## pharmacistking (Nov 11, 2019)

Just won an auction from a Postcard company for a 5000 points HGVC on the boulevard. For a ridiculously low amount... Will keep you posted if it passes ROFR.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 11, 2019)

What is a postcard company?


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## pharmacistking (Nov 11, 2019)

Timeshare exit company.


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## Finsadbel (Nov 11, 2019)

Just watched a Platinum Odd Use Year 8400 points at Breckinridge go for $0.77 on eBay. Doubt it passes ROFR, but WOW!


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## PigsDad (Nov 12, 2019)

Finsadbel said:


> Just watched a Platinum Odd Use Year 8400 points at Breckinridge go for $0.77 on eBay. Doubt it passes ROFR, but WOW!


No ROFR at Valdoro AFAIK.  Crazy price, but note that this is most likely a summer Platinum week, and would not get you a ski week.  Given the fairly high MF at Valdoro, this may not be as big of a bargain as you think.

Kurt


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## Finsadbel (Nov 12, 2019)

You’re right. And I completely forgot about the no ROFR there. Still a crazy price.


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## Maryland_jim (Nov 23, 2019)

I am looking ay Vegas Ebay offerings.
I asked seller but no help there. What I am uncertain about is whether I can use the ownership interest as points for staying at other HGVC properties.  I thought that this was a points based system but looking at the ads, I get the impression that my assumption might be wrong and that the usage is only at same property- any help is appreciated, Jim M

Hilton Grand Vacations On Paradise 10,000 HGVC points!
( 312846068116 )

HILTON VACATION CLUB ELARA 10,000 ANNUAL TIMESHARE FOR SALE!
( 333381565624 )
*Details*

*PROPERTY INFORMATION* *FEES DUE AT TIME OF SALE
Points* *10,000 Gold Season*

*Maintenance Fees 2020:
$1,985.54 Paid By Buyer
Usage* *Annual* *Settlement Fee 
(Closing Cost)* *$550.00 Paid By Buyer*
Type of Ownership
*Deeded* *Resort Transfer Fee
$473 (Transfer Fee) Due at Closing
Paid By Buyer

$609 (Club Activation Fee) Will be billed directly by Hilton once transferred.
$176 (Club Dues; if not HGVC points member) Will be billed directly by Hilton once transferred.
All these fees are Hilton fees, not seller fees.
Trading Company* *RCI * *Plus The Winning Bid* *$TBD?
Maintenance & Taxes (APPROX.)* *$1,985.54 Yearly
Availability* *2020
*
What Is A Timeshare?

*Points: allows the owner to choose which dates they wish to travel each year based on the number of points that comprise their points based ownership*
Fixed Week: guarantees the owners use of that same week each year (or every other year)
Floating Week: allows the owner to choose which week they wish to travel each year based on the weeks that comprise their specific floating week ownership.
Fractional ownership of a unit at a resort; most commonly for one week of usage.
There are three common types of timeshares: Fixed Week, Floating Weeks, and Points.
Usage of the timeshare can vary depending on the specific ownership. The two most common forms of usage are Annual (every year) and Biennial (every other year).

Almost all timeshare resorts are affiliated with an exchange company which allows you to trade your week so that you can travel to a different resort of your choice.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 23, 2019)

Yes, you can use points for most HGVC properties at 9 months. Underlying this is a deed. Each deed is assigned a fixed number of points.

These are bundled deeds (2 deeds x 5000 points). You can use your home week or use at 9 months in the club for 10,000 points. 2x bundle is harder to dispose because some people don't want to pay the higher maint fees and you cannot split cost effectively into two 5000 deeds. Better MF/point to go with a 7k+ unit unless they are selling these bundles ridiculously cheap to offset the higher MF/point.


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## dayooper (Nov 23, 2019)

@Maryland_jim - I would learn more about the HGVC system before I went and purchased a deed, especially from eBay. It’s a great system and, when purchased correctly, can save you money. Platinum units give you more bang for your buck.

Timeshares are easy to get into, but can be much harder to get rid of. Life happens and you may need to divest yourself of the timeshare and platinum units are much easier to sell or even give away. Read the forum and learn. Keep asking questions as this forum is extremely helpful with their answers.

Good luck and don’t be stranger.


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## brp (Nov 23, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> These are bundled deeds (2 deeds x 5000 points).



If this indeed 2x contracts in one bundle (and that does seem to be the case), it is likely that it will be 2x$609 for the transfer. Best to confirm this with the seller in advance.

Cheers.


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## Maryland_jim (Nov 23, 2019)

dayooper said:


> @Maryland_jim - I would learn more about the HGVC system before I went and purchased a deed, especially from eBay. It’s a great system and, when purchased correctly, can save you money. Platinum units give you more bang for your buck.
> 
> Timeshares are easy to get into, but can be much harder to get rid of. Life happens and you may need to divest yourself of the timeshare and platinum units are much easier to sell or even give away. Read the forum and learn. Keep asking questions as this forum is extremely helpful with their answers.
> 
> Good luck and don’t be stranger.


Thanks for your reply and for BRP & CalGal-very helpful for sure.
I have done Wyndham for 10 years; I recently attended a HGVC sale presentation and did so 6 years ago. I've stayed at HGVC At Flamingo. Really enjoy that location. Wyndman at Grand Desert is okay location but love Flamingo location.
Seems like buying deeded at Flamingo might be preferable but if I can purchase $7k points at Paradise or BLVD, that might be more economical. Is the advance reservation period at Flamingo really important or is there generally availability at 9 months?
BLVD and Paradise seem to be off the beaten track to me, but maybe I should consider those locations next time I come to Vegas?
Best to all!
Jim


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 23, 2019)

We own at Paradise 7k points. But never stayed there. We stay at Elara to be center strip (or Hawaii) with our points. We could also stay at Flamingo or Trump if we desired. Points are points. You don't have to own where you want to stay. Vegas has plenty of inventory and is easy to reserve. Other places like Waikiki in summer, not so much.


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## dayooper (Nov 24, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We own at Paradise 7k points. But never stayed there. We stay at Elara to be center strip (or Hawaii) with our points. We could also stay at Flamingo or Trump if we wanted. Points are points. You don't have to own where you want to stay. Vegas has plenty of inventory and is easy to reserve. Other places like Waikiki in summer, not so much.



To add on to what @CalGalTraveler said, most places can be reserved at 9 months. I own at Flamingo and have booked Myrtle Beach in prime summer months two years in a row. Some places you do need the home week advantage to get your week. SW Florida, ski weeks in Park City and Breckinridge and summer in Waikiki all generally require the home week advantage.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 24, 2019)

FWIW the highest deed at Paradise is 7k that's how we can tell this is a bundle.


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## Maryland_jim (Nov 24, 2019)

dayooper said:


> To add on to what @CalGalTraveler said, most places can be reserved at 9 months. I own at Flamingo and have booked Myrtle Beach in prime summer months two years in a row. Some places you do need the home week advantage to get your week. SW Florida, ski weeks in Park City and Breckinridge and summer in Waikiki all generally require the home week advantage.


The feedback has been great; I've been a Tug Member for a while, but more of an observer. I truly appreciate the assistance and guidance! Jim


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 24, 2019)

@Maryland_jim Good luck on your quest. You are very smart to ask upfront before you buy.  Although the bundled units will go for less because of the higher MF and transaction fees, the upfront purchase discount could be substantial and easily offset the higher cost, lower MF/point of a 7k+ unit.

Don't worry about ROFR if you can't wait a few months. Bid low on a property you want. If it passes ROFR then great. If not, there will be another one available soon. It doesn't hurt to bid low because it also helps an owner sell their property faster and keeps the market fluid. You will eventually win a low priced bid if you are patient.

Keep us posted on what you decide and don't forget to update ROFR.net if you pull the trigger.


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