# What do you think the average annual income for DVC owners is?



## cbyrne1174 (Jan 30, 2019)

With these developer prices, I fail to see how a family of 4 with both parents making 50k each a year could reasonably afford these buy in costs. I live near Disney and I would honestly say my husband and I together make well above average for both Tampa and Orlando, yet I can't afford these prices unless I put literally ALL my Non essential spending into paying it off over 1-2 years. Also, I'm just talking about getting a resale contract for 200 points SSR at 95pp, let alone 160pp developer.

Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class? 

Half the 16 year olds that I teach in Tampa fl have never even been to Disney because of this. The class distribution is so disproportional for the area too. 3 out of every 5 kids get free lunch within a 100 mile radius of WDW. It feels like its turning into the "Dubai" of the United states.


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## TravelTime (Jan 31, 2019)

This is problem in the Orlando area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Florida_Project

OTOH, this is a problem in places like Mexico too. There are often two economies in tourist areas.


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## pedro47 (Jan 31, 2019)

The meridian  income for Orlando, Fl is right under $50,000 per year.
The State of Florida meridian income was $64, 000 according to the Census  ACS survey dated for 2018. I am personally surprised at this low figure.


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## pedro47 (Jan 31, 2019)

To the OP, your thread has caused me to do some research. Thank you.
I am blessed.


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## ljmiii (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> With these developer prices, I fail to see how a family of 4 with both parents making 50k each a year could reasonably afford these buy in costs...
> 
> Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class?


Going to Disneyworld, staying on property, and owning a piece of the mouse are three very different things.

When I was a young lad getting to go to Disneyworld was something of an unobtainable dream. I got to go once and was enchanted with it all - but one of my strongest memories was the magic of a hotel that had a Monorail that went *through* it.  We of course stayed off property and ate as inexpensively as we could.  Today at around $100 a day plus the price of onsite food and a cheapish off property hotel WDW seems more or less comparable to what it was when I grew up - a once a decade-ish splurge for the lower middle class.

Staying on property is a different kettle of fish - my mind boggles whenever I look at the prices Disney currently wants for a hotel room much less for a 1 or 2BR villa. It never occurred to me that a 'normal' person would or could ever stay at the Contemporary Hotel back then...and that still holds true. But Disney has added 'value resorts that make staying 'on property' more obtainable for much of the middle class.

As for owning DVC, it is a luxury that means different things to different people. To those who are asset rich but income poor it allows them to stay 'on property' when otherwise they could not. To those with lots of disposable income it is a pleasant way to ensure their regular vacations at WDW are enjoyable and care free.  To some of the middle class it can be a trap into which they convince themselves to buy - but when they face the reality of usurious interest payments and ever increasing maintenance fees they are then forced to sell.  And to those in the lower middle class DVC ownership is indeed an unobtainable dream.


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## Dean (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> With these developer prices, I fail to see how a family of 4 with both parents making 50k each a year could reasonably afford these buy in costs. I live near Disney and I would honestly say my husband and I together make well above average for both Tampa and Orlando, yet I can't afford these prices unless I put literally ALL my Non essential spending into paying it off over 1-2 years. Also, I'm just talking about getting a resale contract for 200 points SSR at 95pp, let alone 160pp developer.
> 
> Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class?
> 
> Half the 16 year olds that I teach in Tampa fl have never even been to Disney because of this. The class distribution is so disproportional for the area too. 3 out of every 5 kids get free lunch within a 100 mile radius of WDW. It feels like its turning into the "Dubai" of the United states.


As noted, going to WDW is expensive, staying on property even more so.  Living in FL with the special tickets and staying off property it can be workable for many people.  But most can have opportunities if they plan and are intentional though in today's world both of those requirements are in short supply.  You mentioned your income which is approaching double the US average.  IIRC DVC lists a minimum of $75K to do the tour but I don't think they enforce it.  DVC is not the savings it once was and it lends itself to costing more than just paying OOP, esp with the FL resident specials on rooms as well.  But there are ways to save a lot of money if one pays attention.  Resale can still be a lot cheaper and living in FL you have the best perk independently, access to the Gold pass at a discount.  A timeshare is a large and long term commitment.  Personally I don't think people should buy a luxury item unless they can pay cash and preferably, have no consumer debt at all.  

One can always rent to take advantage of DVC without owning and/or to get experience with the system to make a better long term decision.  There are also other timeshares that could be helpful in this situation though they are no on property though a couple are VERY close.  And often those would give better non WDW opportunities for other travel options.


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## littlestar (Jan 31, 2019)

We have friends that bought direct from Disney and only bought 50 points. And a niece of mine bought 100 points. So not everyone buys 200 points or more. We use our DVC points to add a few days on property when we come to Orlando - as we normally stay at Marriott Vacation Club resorts in Orlando for around $450 for the week in a 2 bedroom on an Interval International cash Getaway. For a 9 day trip, staying a few days on Disney property and then staying in a big plush Marriott Vacation Club unit is perfect. Having access to Interval International’s cash deals is why I bought a dual affiliated timeshare to go along with our DVC points.

We initially bought 150 DVC points from Disney back in 2002 for $75 a point and financed it for about 18 months (paid it off early). If I was a Florida resident, I would probably downsize our DVC points to under 100 points because of the discounts on rooms and tickets for Florida residents. MouseSavers.com keeps track of Florida resident deals.

I watch the disboards’ resort board and a lot of people over there chase Disney cash deals and find some great prices on rooms - $95 a night for Port Orleans French Quarter on Priceline Express Deals (and even Animal Kingdom villas studios for $164 a night).

There are a lot of ways to get deals on Disney rooms and it does not have to include buying a bunch of DVC points. I actually enjoy the hunt for a cash  deal.


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## Pathways (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Half the 16 year olds that I teach in Tampa fl have never even been to Disney because of this



Sorry, I don't see this as an issue.  Six flags is the closest park to my area, is much cheaper than WDW, and I guarantee less than half my kid's friends have ever been there.  Probably 5-10% have ever been to WDW.



cbyrne1174 said:


> Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class?



My first two trips to WDW were when I was 18 and 20.  (My parents never would have spent their money towards taking the kids there).  I stayed at a Motel 6 the first time and upgraded to a Comfort Inn the second. That was luxury to me. I don't think Disney was ever a 'middle class' vacation. I agree with ljmiii and would extend that 'once in ten years visit' to the 'middle' middle class also.



cbyrne1174 said:


> With these developer prices, I fail to see how a family of 4 with both parents making 50k each a year could reasonably afford these buy in costs. I live near Disney and I would honestly say my husband and I together make well above average for both Tampa and Orlando, yet I can't afford these prices unless I put literally ALL my Non essential spending into paying it off over 1-2 years. Also, I'm just talking about getting a resale contract for 200 points SSR at 95pp, let alone 160pp developer.



Not only can a fam of 4 making 100K not 'reasonably afford these buy in costs', but in general I would say they shouldn't purchase ANY timeshare. I understand there are huge differences in cost of living from state to state, but I don't see how a family income of only 100K with 2 kids could ever have that kind of cash left over after paying taxes, standard housing and transportation expenses, paying for two kids, and fully funding a retirement plan. And for that family to obligate themselves to an annual maintenance fee payment is just crazy.

If someone in that situation has lived frugally, is debt free, and budgets enough in their 'luxury' account to go to WDW every so often, I say 'congrats' to them!


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## Lisa P (Jan 31, 2019)

Pathways said:


> Sorry, I don't see this as an issue.  Six flags is the closest park to my area, is much cheaper than WDW, and I guarantee less than half my kid's friends have ever been there.  Probably 5-10% have ever been to WDW.


I agree! A generation or two ago, it seemed most middle class families either didn't vacation at all or they vacationed by visiting relatives, camping, or taking moderately priced road trips and staying in inexpensive motels. It's not that long ago that _middle class_ families who were able to take _expensive_ vacations (WDW, ski weeks, Caribbean, Europe) were the exception rather than the expectation.

Growing up after color TVs were in every home, and then the internet, children are now regularly shown the glossy marketing of costly vacations and amusements. It fuels a greater desire to experience these things and a greater sense that they are missing out on something if they don't get to go. IMO, it even fosters an expectation that everyone "should" be able to do these things. Frugality, emergency savings, and retirement planning are less valued than fulfilling the "now" opportunity. Again, JMO.



Pathways said:


> If [a fam of 4 making 100K] has lived frugally, is debt free, and budgets enough in their 'luxury' account to go to WDW every so often, I say 'congrats' to them!


Our middle class family of 5 (sometimes more with foster kids, exchange students, or friends of our kids) fit this description and so do many others we know - in the past. It really is changing.

When we did it, it wasn't with DVC. Though we could afford our 150 points while living frugally debt free, we sold it. At the same cost as squeezing our family into a DVC BWV studio, we could enjoy an offsite resort (resale) 2BR, bring along an extra person, plus buy park passes (10-day non-expiring, which we split between 3 trips) - no comparison in value. Only a couple years ago, this was still doable, and we exchanged into a couple DVC 2BRs for group trips! It has changed in the last few years.

Non-expiring passes - gone.
Price of a 5-7 day pass - increased a lot.
Parking fee - more than doubled.
Ability to exchange into 2BRs onsite - gone.
Resort fee per DVC room exchange - increased.
Price of a DVC purchase (both developer and resale) - increased a lot.

As we and our adult kids anticipate bringing our grandchildren to WDW, we are _very_ thankful that our adult kids have higher-paying professions than we do. More than the increased price of DVC, the increased price of park passes is what will keep more middle class families away (or reduce the frequency of visits) IMO. It's not an entitlement to vacation or to visit a theme park. I still believe that wonderful family vacations can be more affordable with resale timeshares. But for many middle class people, they may not be at WDW.


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## chalee94 (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Also, I'm just talking about getting a resale contract for 200 points SSR at 95pp, let alone 160pp developer.
> 
> Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class?



I'm in the group that stayed at cheaper motels near Disney when they were younger (my parents were lower middle class) - the notion that Disney is pricing out the middle class because everyone can't afford an annual week in a 1BR villa with 900 sq ft on property is a little silly.

When I was in my 20s, staying at the Days Inn was fine - I expected that it might take time to build to paying for the nicer options. I can afford more now but make do with a small OKW contract that cost less than $4,000 in 2006. Stunning offsite 2BR timeshares near WDW are available for less than $100 per night - sometimes only $250-300 for the week. I can afford whatever I want, but my competing budget items (housing, vacations, retirement planning, and so on) still mean that I can't afford *everything* I want.


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## chriskre (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> With these developer prices, I fail to see how a family of 4 with both parents making 50k each a year could reasonably afford these buy in costs. I live near Disney and I would honestly say my husband and I together make well above average for both Tampa and Orlando, yet I can't afford these prices unless I put literally ALL my Non essential spending into paying it off over 1-2 years. Also, I'm just talking about getting a resale contract for 200 points SSR at 95pp, let alone 160pp developer.
> 
> Is it because I'm only 29, so I don't have a lot of assets? Am I just really crappy at budgeting? Or is disney seriously getting to the point of pricing out the middle class?
> 
> Half the 16 year olds that I teach in Tampa fl have never even been to Disney because of this. The class distribution is so disproportional for the area too. 3 out of every 5 kids get free lunch within a 100 mile radius of WDW. It feels like its turning into the "Dubai" of the United states.



I live in FL and bought my DVC when my income was higher while working
and met the 75K threshold that Disney looks for.
I did do an add-on after I retired at Poly though when my income dropped.

I think Disney doesn't care if you can afford to vacation a little
or a lot as long as you can make the payments.  They try to sell you on the 
studios even if you are a family of 5.
Borrowing and Banking a small "affordable" contract still gets you into the game
and their easy financing makes it even easier.  

When you do a tour there they really amp up the pixie dust so I can see why
people would sign up even if they really shouldn't.  Most people aren't doing 
the math beyond listening to the spiel.  They break it down to the ridiculous
so to speak so it seems like for only $199 you can vacation for the rest of
your life in a Disney deluxe resort.  When you see that Disney charges
$600 for a studio you can see how it's an easy sell.  When I purchased my
DVC I was staying in Coronado Springs.  The DVC units were costing the
same as a mid-level resort so it was very appealing.  

I am now to the point where I do every other year trips even with getting a
Monday-Friday FL resident pass.  I bank and borrow and rent out the leftover
points to subsidize my own trips.  I think as FL residents owning DVC can be
an affordable vacation if you want to go to Disney.   I had been to Disney
probably 100 times in my life prior to purchasing DVC and knew I wanted
to continue to go to Disney into my retirement years and definitely only
stay on property at a Deluxe resort.   It makes the whole handicap friendly
thing just so much easier.   
Knowing you can resell it for about what you paid also helps in the decision
to buy, unlike most timeshares.  

Sadly Disney doesn't care who can afford to come to the parks/resorts or not.
If people keep paying the inflated prices then they will keep inflating them.
I don't think this keeps with Walt's dream but he's long gone and Disney is
now just a business, churning out profits for their machine.  
I once heard Michael Eisner say that they will keep raising the prices until
the people stop coming.  Disney has no shame, they seem to be marching
on long after Eisner has left with the same mantra.


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## Pathways (Jan 31, 2019)

chriskre said:


> I once heard Michael Eisner say that they will keep raising the prices until
> the people stop coming.



WDW has NO competition.  Sea World? Universal?  Not even close.  It's really simple math. They need a certain number of dollars to run the parks, do maintenance, plan and build improvements, and have a return.  Fewer visitors paying a higher price means less wear/tear and fewer employees needed.

Why not keep raising the price?  I used to visit in the 'off' season and could ride on every single ride in one park in one day. (still have leftover park hopper tickets - 3 parks, 3 days needed, then 4 parks, 4 days needed).  There is no real 'off' season now.  I need at least 2 days/park to hit all the rides (short of staying there from 9am until 10pm in lines) which costs me twice as much.

I would rather pay twice as much for my ticket, have shorter lines, and only spend one day/park.

The trick is knowing the tipping point where the price gets so high the gross $/day starts dropping.  Their new dynamic pricing is designed to predict just that point.


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## Dean (Jan 31, 2019)

Pathways said:


> Not only can a fam of 4 making 100K not 'reasonably afford these buy in costs', but in general I would say they shouldn't purchase ANY timeshare. I understand there are huge differences in cost of living from state to state, but I don't see how a family income of only 100K with 2 kids could ever have that kind of cash left over after paying taxes, standard housing and transportation expenses, paying for two kids, and fully funding a retirement plan. And for that family to obligate themselves to an annual maintenance fee payment is just crazy.
> 
> If someone in that situation has lived frugally, is debt free, and budgets enough in their 'luxury' account to go to WDW every so often, I say 'congrats' to them!


While I think there is a lot of truth to your post, I suspect the average household income for DVC is under $100K.  And I do think that it isn't difficult for one to own DVC appropriately making $100K for most people.  Now you likely can't live in the highest cost areas and do so but Tampa is a relatively inexpensive area of the country to live in and for the metro areas, one of the cheaper in FL.  I'd say almost anyone living in the Tampa area with $100K income would have the ability to buy DVC if it was important to them but they might have to plan and save to do so.



chriskre said:


> Sadly Disney doesn't care who can afford to come to the parks/resorts or not.
> If people keep paying the inflated prices then they will keep inflating them.
> I don't think this keeps with Walt's dream but he's long gone and Disney is
> now just a business, churning out profits for their machine.
> ...


The reason for the income cutoff is so they don't waste their time.  It's their job to sell, yours and mine to make decisions for our own situation.  So I don't see this as a responsibility for Disney.  In reality if timeshares only sold to those that could afford it and it made sense, there would be absolutely NO timeshares anywhere ever.


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## bnoble (Jan 31, 2019)

Lisa P said:


> Non-expiring passes - gone.
> Price of a 5-7 day pass - increased a lot.
> Parking fee - more than doubled.


Of course, these have all happened while Disney has maintained or increased domestic attendance, and increased domestic per-capita revenue. That latter number is important: even if the same number of people enter the gates next year as this year, if they each pay a little more to do so, that's a win for the Mouse. There are lots of paths to growth, and more guests isn't the only one.

Disney has taken several steps in the past 3-5 years to essentially cut off the "value" end of their attendance profile, and replace those folks with higher-margin guests. The sharp increase in theme park add-ons (After Hours, Magic Mornings, etc.) that exceed the per-day cost of the dearly departed 10-day No-expire ticket is good evidence of this.

This is also in the context in which for many in the Eastern half of the US, a Disney vacation is essentially a rite of passage for kids of a certain age. So, families on the bottom half of the income range may save for a long time---in some cases years---for a single offsite bare-bones trip just to have the experience of it.

Honestly, it's pure genius: somehow Disney has managed to create a product that is simultaneously aspirational and mass-market.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 31, 2019)

My youngest sibling has 3 boys. I know the youngest has been to Disney because I took him his first year of Middle School (aka it was a reward for GOING TO SCHOOL). I basicly have taken all 3 boys to Ft Lauderdale several times over the year. But only the one nephew to WDW. I did take a sister after her husband died. (OK, I had to find things my sister NEVER did with her now dead husband .. first trip, she had issues and flew home early; second trip, was for Fall Food & Wine Festival ... "what dead husband?"). 

I graduated from college just about an hour NORTH of WDW ... WDW opened when I was a college sophmore. And I am a small points DVC owner (resale before the lost of benefits to resale owners). I watched Walt's Wonderful World of Disney on Sunday nights as a kid.

My NJ High School senior year trips used to be to Washington, DC. But WDW displaced the DC class trips decades ago. 

I brought 90 DVC points (resale) just before the lost of 'benefits' to resale owners (thks, TUG). I do a trip every few years by combining/borrowing points and add on to offsite resorts stays. Usually taking a relative with me. And some years, I place my DVC points with a broker to rent.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jan 31, 2019)

I guess the prices are on par with other timeshare systems. I just calculated the retail price of my Wyndham resale ownership and it was over $100,000. I probably spent close to $1,000 for my contracts resale, but they already had points fully loaded on them. Someone paid the retail price for those points at some point. I guess I'm just not feeling it because it wasn't out of my pocket. The cost of living and is really cheap for WDW area. A family of 4 can live off $40k if they are debt free and own their home easily.


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## bizaro86 (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> A family of 4 can live off $40k if they are debt free and own their home easily.



That's true lots of places, as one of the biggest differences in cost of living is housing cost. However, not too many people who have consistently had family incomes of sub 40k (current dollars) are likely to own paid off houses.


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## cbyrne1174 (Jan 31, 2019)

I personally might just be frugal and buy a 200 point resale contract and finance it. It just sucks living that way after having to do it as a young adult. Using an amortization calculator, I would make enough rental profit from the 200 points using Redweek to cover the interest if I bought  and rented out the first year while I paid off the $20,000 purchase. I also could generate an extra $2500 easily from my Wyndham ownership of I don't use it that year. 

The good thing about Disney's high prices is that it is super easy to rent out Bonnet Creek with a 200% mark up lol.

Also, Orlando's demographics are completely different from when you step in WDW. The difference in racial distribution is insane.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 31, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> That's true lots of places, as one of the biggest differences in cost of living is housing cost. However, not too many people who have consistently had family incomes of sub 40k (current dollars) are likely to own paid off houses.



My sister does. We are a family of cheapskates.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Jan 31, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> Also, Orlando's demographics are completely different from when you step in WDW. The difference in racial distribution is insane.



The people going are visiting a cathedral to a RODENT

Maybe some people don't like rodents / Maybe Eddie Murphy should have mentioned this in one of his classic HBO stand up comedy specials .
He certainly clued me into haunted house demographics in his Amityville Horror routine  (1979  movie) .
<google -& watch on  youtube >


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Jan 31, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> My sister does. We are a family of cheapskates.



FRUGAL
My wife is 3rd generation (Scottish background) Canadian .

FRUGAL .

*****
old joke - what is the last thing a Scotsman takes when they move .
answer - the wallpaper .

Cheap means low value - has to be replaced often  / Frugal is buying a good winter wool coat and using it for 30 plus winters .


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## bnoble (Feb 1, 2019)

cbyrne1174 said:


> The difference in racial distribution is insane.


What does this have to do with anything?


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## cbyrne1174 (Feb 1, 2019)

bnoble said:


> What does this have to do with anything?


FL is 33%/33%/33% but it doesn't look anywhere near that when you step in the gates.


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## chriskre (Feb 1, 2019)

Dean said:


> The reason for the income cutoff is so they don't waste their time.  It's their job to sell, yours and mine to make decisions for our own situation.  So I don't see this as a responsibility for Disney.  In reality if timeshares only sold to those that could afford it and it made sense, there would be absolutely NO timeshares anywhere ever.



I agree that there would be no timeshares anyway and I do agree that
Disney isn't responsible for people's decisions, I just think this new
game that Disney plays would not sit well with Walt's ideals.  Not that
anyone at Disney cares any more how he would have done things.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think he wanted a place where ALL could afford to
visit.  Why else would they have built a campground next to the Contemporary 
and Polynesian?  

Maybe the campground is next on the chopping block, might as well go all the way.


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## Dean (Feb 1, 2019)

chriskre said:


> I agree that there would be no timeshares anyway and I do agree that
> Disney isn't responsible for people's decisions, I just think this new
> game that Disney plays would not sit well with Walt's ideals.  Not that
> anyone at Disney cares any more how he would have done things.
> ...


I doubt any of us know what Walt would have done in a given situation but the reality is that Disney is a business and the only way to make it cheap is to be cheap and cut corners.  There are plans for a DVC at FW that presumably will eliminate the BBQ.


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## JohnB3 (Feb 18, 2019)

I think increased pricing is doing 2 things at disney the first is easy, DIS (the company) increases its corporate profit and ends up with happy shareholders.  But I think as importantly it helps control crowds, WDW is a world wide experience.  we were last there in January and the parks were crowded,  I heard a lot of portuguese being spoken while I was there, why? its school break in Brazil and many families were visiting.  The parks seem to be always full and if I were Bob Iger (DIS CEO) I would increase pricing up to the point I effected demand, I for one prefer the parks with a bit smaller crowds (even though I hate the prices ) The best I could think to do was to buy both a DVC resale and some DIS stock but I'm fortunate and I know it.


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## Jason245 (Feb 21, 2019)

The economics of owning dvc (without taking into account Disney magic) dont make sense in any way shape or form in the retail or resale market.  

That being said this product is designed for the upper middle class (I would argue around 1 to 200k for a family of 4) but is generally sold to the aspirational upper class (probably the 50 to 150k crowd ). 

People finance these things like houses for 10 years at above average interest rates to make it "affordable"...

 This is observation(from the industry as a whole) but I dont have anything to point to. 

A average family of 4 would probably be better off renting something off property and putting the extra 2 to 3k for the week in dvc premium towards a special on property experience(e.g. paying for the private guide who will literally walk you through whatever park you want fast passing or backdoor you on every ride)..

Just my opinion..



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Feb 21, 2019)

Jason245 said:


> The economics of owning dvc (without taking into account Disney magic) dont make sense in any way shape or form in the retail or resale market.
> 
> That being said this product is designed for the upper middle class (I would argue around 1 to 200k for a family of 4) but is generally sold to the aspirational upper class (probably the 50 to 150k crowd ).
> 
> ...


That is not c/w my observations and experience.  I've been participating with DVC related boards since before there was a formal internet.  Obviously buying requires a certain amount of assets but I think it's far less than you think it is.  There certainly are those that fit into your groups but my experience suggest that most members are just working people who enjoy Disney and make it a priority.  I'd equate it to buying a car.  If your only option is to buy at a buy here/pay here lot you're likely not going to be able to buy DVC so in that regard I'd agree there's a floor but if you can buy a decent car, you can probably buy DVC if it's important to you.  Whether you should or not becomes another discussion.


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## Jason245 (Feb 21, 2019)

Dean said:


> That is not c/w my observations and experience.  I've been participating with DVC related boards since before there was a formal internet.  Obviously buying requires a certain amount of assets but I think it's far less than you think it is.  There certainly are those that fit into your groups but my experience suggest that most members are just working people who enjoy Disney and make it a priority.  I'd equate it to buying a car.  If your only option is to buy at a buy here/pay here lot you're likely not going to be able to buy DVC so in that regard I'd agree there's a floor but if you can buy a decent car, you can probably buy DVC if it's important to you.  Whether you should or not becomes another discussion.




Like I said, Product was designed for upper middle class, but is being primarily bought by people in the middle class.. (I used the term aspirational upper class because generally the cash outflow comittments do not make sound financial sense for most middle class families) .  In South Florida everyone seems drives around in a shiny new BMW/Lexus/Mercedes that only costs $5-700 a month...even the people earning 15 bucks an hour... I don't know how they make it work, but I can never get the math to work and I make much more than that.


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## Dean (Feb 21, 2019)

Jason245 said:


> Like I said, Product was designed for upper middle class, but is being primarily bought by people in the middle class.. (I used the term aspirational upper class because generally the cash outflow comittments do not make sound financial sense for most middle class families) .  In South Florida everyone seems drives around in a shiny new BMW/Lexus/Mercedes that only costs $5-700 a month...even the people earning 15 bucks an hour... I don't know how they make it work, but I can never get the math to work and I make much more than that.


But you qualified it to $1-200K and that's where I differ.  IIRC they target their tours to $75K and above as did Marriott the last I saw but don't restrict people from touring that are under that like some companies do.  If you use a more traditional definition of upper middle class, I'd agree with you.  That puts it to above $75K nationally but for many parts of the country it probably stretches down to under $60K statistically.  Whether they should do so is a different discussion, many shouldn't buy DVC that have, same for high end cars.


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## bogey21 (Feb 21, 2019)

The amount of income is only important as to how much borrowing capacity it will support.  While my kids were growing up I borrowed to take them on vacations (including on-site Disney); send them around the world on mission trips; and pay for their college educations.  Once they were gone I paid off the debts and now I don't owe anybody anything.  And in case you wonder my kids worked from the time they were 13-14 or so but didn't earn anywhere near enough to cover the stuff I paid for.  Would I do it again?  Absolutely...

George


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## Jason245 (Feb 21, 2019)

Dean said:


> But you qualified it to $1-200K and that's where I differ.  IIRC they target their tours to $75K and above as did Marriott the last I saw but don't restrict people from touring that are under that like some companies do.  If you use a more traditional definition of upper middle class, I'd agree with you.  That puts it to above $75K nationally but for many parts of the country it probably stretches down to under $60K statistically.  Whether they should do so is a different discussion, many shouldn't buy DVC that have, same for high end cars.


What the product is designed for vs who they target is a whole different story.. 

It is like whole life insurance... for most people there is no purpose in having that type of a policy, but because of a number of reasons, they target people who dont need it and those people buy...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Feb 22, 2019)

Jason245 said:


> What the product is designed for vs who they target is a whole different story..
> 
> It is like whole life insurance... for most people there is no purpose in having that type of a policy, but because of a number of reasons, they target people who dont need it and those people buy...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


LOL, can't argue there other than the example.  Maybe if you'd used annuity, the % of people who should buy whole life is likely zero.  The target is who they can sell to but they don't want to spin their wheels with those that can't qualify or get the money together.  Their main target audience is simply those who go and to Disney and want to return regardless of income.  But to buy one either needs the funds or to qualify for a loan.  It's been quite a while since I saw their income target for tours but I'm thinking it was $75K.  With other timeshares I've seen anywhere from $40K to $75 K along the way for tours but I'm sure there are others outside that limit, likely Ritz and Four seasons.  I'm sure we're just arguing nuances.  And I agree with an earlier point you made that what people do and what they should do are very often 2 different things (BMW) when 3/4 of people in the US have more month than money.  If only those that should buy a timeshare did so, there would be no timeshares anywhere.


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## TravelTime (Feb 22, 2019)

I think many people could finance a $25K to $35K purchase regardless of income. I think Disney is targeting families in the upper middle class. They would make no money targeting anything less. Disney has the resources to hire experts in marketing and they know what they are doing.


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## Jason245 (Feb 22, 2019)

Dean said:


> LOL, can't argue there other than the example.  Maybe if you'd used annuity, the % of people who should buy whole life is likely zero.  The target is who they can sell to but they don't want to spin their wheels with those that can't qualify or get the money together.  Their main target audience is simply those who go and to Disney and want to return regardless of income.  But to buy one either needs the funds or to qualify for a loan.  It's been quite a while since I saw their income target for tours but I'm thinking it was $75K.  With other timeshares I've seen anywhere from $40K to $75 K along the way for tours but I'm sure there are others outside that limit, likely Ritz and Four seasons.  I'm sure we're just arguing nuances.  And I agree with an earlier point you made that what people do and what they should do are very often 2 different things (BMW) when 3/4 of people in the US have more month than money.  If only those that should buy a timeshare did so, there would be no timeshares anywhere.


I know a number of executives who buy whole life.. it is a great way for them to wrap tons of money into tax free wealth transfer Investment vehicles.....

As for annuities..the simple ones are probably best for most Americans (the ones that pay you till you die and then dont do anything else)..that is after all what social security is.. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DebBrown (Feb 22, 2019)

About 15 years ago we had a family reunion in Orlando.  We stayed in 6 Marriott 2-br units, 4 of which were bonus weeks.  Back then they sold multi-day non-expiring passes and there were no fingerprint scans, etc.  We bought a bunch of 10-day park hopper tickets at about $20/day.  Everybody shared them.  We still have a handful of those passes and have been using them every since but I think we are down to about 10 or 12 days left.  We talked about doing a similar trip with the new crop of grandchildren but I don't know if anyone can afford the cost of admission even if we get good deals on the timeshare units.  I'd rather fund my retirement plan that spent thousands on a week of vacation.


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## Dean (Feb 23, 2019)

Jason245 said:


> I know a number of executives who buy whole life.. it is a great way for them to wrap tons of money into tax free wealth transfer Investment vehicles.....
> 
> As for annuities..the simple ones are probably best for most Americans (the ones that pay you till you die and then dont do anything else)..that is after all what social security is..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Whole life to SS, now that's a good comparison.  Similar returns.


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## pedro47 (Feb 23, 2019)

I am going to change the direction of this thread just a little. I feel the Disney campgrounds will be looked at in a few years and that site will be a new style Disney Resort or hotel..
 IMHO.


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## Dean (Feb 23, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> I am going to change the direction of this thread just a little. I feel the Disney campgrounds will be looked at in a few years and that site will be a new style Disney Resort or hotel..
> IMHO.


There's already a resort in planning for that area*, https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts/reflections*


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## djohn06 (Mar 3, 2019)

DebBrown said:


> About 15 years ago we had a family reunion in Orlando.  We stayed in 6 Marriott 2-br units, 4 of which were bonus weeks.  Back then they sold multi-day non-expiring passes and there were no fingerprint scans, etc.  We bought a bunch of 10-day park hopper tickets at about $20/day.  Everybody shared them.  We still have a handful of those passes and have been using them every since but I think we are down to about 10 or 12 days left.  We talked about doing a similar trip with the new crop of grandchildren but I don't know if anyone can afford the cost of admission even if we get good deals on the timeshare units.  I'd rather fund my retirement plan that spent thousands on a week of vacation.



The death of Non Ex tickets hurt us too. I am holding onto 4 park days non ex tixs and 6 water park days too.

To the Op:

In my II account, there are currently 2 bedroom Marriott and Sheraton Vistana vacation weeks for as little as $357 (I am Platinum so I get the $50 discount).  I even saw 3 bedrooms for $510 a week at Marriott Grande Vista.

If a family of four stickers to base rate tickets, 6 day ticket cost $1,600.

I'm from the Midwest so your typical Midwestern is perfectly fine driving up to 18 hours in any direction.

This puts a disney trip still in the range of any other typical beach vacation trip.

Sure it's not on Disney property, but at the same time not everyone goes to the beach and gets an oceanfront view.


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## TravelTime (Mar 4, 2019)

I am lost with this thread.


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## Lisa P (Mar 5, 2019)

Up until 2013, many Disney World admission tickets had no expiration date. If you purchased a multi-day ticket and didn't use up all of the days, leftover days could be used on a future trip. It was an incentive to return soon. We bought 10-day tickets with add-ons, park hopper plus 10 water park admissions, none of which expired. Then we spread out the usage, visiting the theme parks for 2-3 days and a water park on relaxation days. We vacationed at WDW (including restaurants, boat/bike rentals, & shopping) for 3-4 weeks over each 2-year period using one set of tickets. WDW became a regular go-to place for vacations. Same with many of our friends.

When Disney dropped the non-expiry option from ticket sales, there were no longer any unused days to encourage a quick revisit. We (and many others) started increasing the delay between Disney trips. The tickets went up in price a usual amount but when compared with how we had used the non-expiry tickets, the price jump for a Disney family vacation was steep. For some of our friends, Disney World became a One-And-Done destination. Hope that makes sense.


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## Cyberc (Mar 12, 2019)

I understand why Disney is increasing the tickets etc. We went this February and the crowds were insane or at least the crowds was much worse than we are use to. We normally go in May and Sept and there the crowds are much less. Increasing the prices lessens the demand at some point - creating a better experience for the ones that can afford to go. I will also price out some families or they might need to save longer for that disney trip before they can afford to go.

Is it fair - perhaps not. Its all about supply and demand. Disney is not forcing anyone to go. The thing with disney is that a lot of people have strong emotions about disney what is fair and unfair and how they believe things should be. When it comes down to it, Disney is a business and they need to make money for their shareholders - not make everyone feel good. If they can do both great. 

I would love for Disney to lower their prices but I also know if they did, I wouldn't go. Why? because of the crowds would be much more insane. Getting 3 rides on the FP+ and then not being able to try anything else because of long waits of 1-2-3-4 hours. Thats not my idea of fun.

As the prices most likely will continue to increase at some point the middle class or upper middle class might not be able to go as often as they would like to. But I expect that when they do go their experience will be better in terms of crowds.

Its not in the cards that a DVC owner should go to the parks when staying onsite. For our next stay in 2020 we will most likely not hit the parks.


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## Lisa P (Mar 12, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> When it comes down to it, Disney is a business and they need to make money for their shareholders - not make everyone feel good. ... Its not in the cards that a DVC owner should go to the parks when staying onsite. For our next stay in 2020 we will most likely not hit the parks.


Agree with much of this post. Not sure we're in the majority here.


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## chalee94 (Mar 12, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> Its not in the cards that a DVC owner should go to the parks when staying onsite. For our next stay in 2020 we will most likely not hit the parks.



Yep. Last year, I got a DVC discounted annual pass and went for 5 weeks in a 12 month period. My next trip will be park-free - just nice restaurants with fun theming in a warmer environment...  I do miss the non-expire tickets that allowed 2-3 days at a time with the ability to save the remaining days for years down the road (but I can see why Disney wanted to put the kibosh on them...)


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## ljmiii (Mar 12, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> I understand why Disney is increasing the tickets etc. We went this February and the crowds were insane or at least the crowds was much worse than we are use to...


I don't know when in February you went to WDW but the crowds around Presidents' Week are third only to those around Easter and Christmas/New Years. For better or worse, it's the calendar we've been stuck with for the past decade or so...


Cyberc said:


> Increasing the prices lessens the demand at some point - creating a better experience for the ones that can afford to go. It will also price out some families or they might need to save longer for that disney trip before they can afford to go.


I think we're just seeing the beginning of this. The introduction of dated tickets really was a 'soft open' - more of a testing of Disney's systems than of what tiered pricing can do. DVC rooms are about twice as expensive in peak season over low - I could easily see the prices for prime weeks like Easter and Christmas skyrocket while low season rates remain steady (or even slightly decline w/4 day packages) to capture 'value' focused visitors.


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## ljmiii (Mar 12, 2019)

Well that didn't take long...

*Walt Disney World theme park ticket price increases go into effect today*

http://www.wdwmagic.com/other/magic...iwQs2wwmb4FKyKP8RZUjb0231JJd3VoxKdtIpcn2FcycU


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## Great3 (Mar 12, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> I understand why Disney is increasing the tickets etc. We went this February and the crowds were insane or at least the crowds was much worse than we are use to. We normally go in May and Sept and there the crowds are much less. Increasing the prices lessens the demand at some point - creating a better experience for the ones that can afford to go. I will also price out some families or they might need to save longer for that disney trip before they can afford to go.
> 
> Is it fair - perhaps not. Its all about supply and demand. Disney is not forcing anyone to go. The thing with disney is that a lot of people have strong emotions about disney what is fair and unfair and how they believe things should be. When it comes down to it, Disney is a business and they need to make money for their shareholders - not make everyone feel good. If they can do both great.
> 
> ...



While that is true, you don't have to go the parks while staying on-site, I would say that is negating the reasons to have DVC for the stay.  If I was not going to the parks, I would just rent out my DVC points (if I had any [LOL], just passed ROFR today on my first DVC contact at Aulani, so waiting for estoppel and closing now).  To me, there are also very other nice places to stay for a much cheaper price than what the stay would cost in Maintenance Fees for the points required to be onsite at a DVC Resort, and not go the parks.  I love the Marriott's Timeshare Resorts as well and often they go for less than $500 cash for a 2-bedrooms unit as getaways on II, and as DVC commands a rental premium that no other timeshare seems to fetch, especially in Orlando, it represent the best value to me:  Stay at DVC when going to the parks, else stay offsite, and rent the DVC points.

Of course, to each his own, everyone decide what works best for them.  But since reading your postings on TUGBBS back when you were looking to purchase HGVC about the same time I was looking to get into HGVC, you strike me as the kind of person that analyzed everything and look to squeeze out the most value where you can just like me.  It just struck me as funny how your postings and your thinking is just how I usually think also!!!  You are just a lot further along than me in the timeshare world purchasing DVC in addition to HGVC.


Great3


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## chalee94 (Mar 13, 2019)

Great3 said:


> While that is true, you don't have to go the parks while staying on-site, I would say that is negating the reasons to have DVC for the stay.  If I was not going to the parks, I would just rent out my DVC points (if I had any [LOL], just passed ROFR today on my first DVC contact at Aulani, so waiting for estoppel and closing now).  To me, there are also very other nice places to stay for a much cheaper price than what the stay would cost in Maintenance Fees for the points required to be onsite at a DVC Resort, and not go the parks.  I love the Marriott's Timeshare Resorts as well and often they go for less than $500 cash for a 2-bedrooms unit as getaways on II, and as DVC commands a rental premium that no other timeshare seems to fetch, especially in Orlando, it represent the best value to me:  Stay at DVC when going to the parks, else stay offsite, and rent the DVC points.



Good point. My next park-free stay is at a Marriott, while I'm banking DVC forward for a different trip later...


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## Dean (Mar 13, 2019)

Great3 said:


> While that is true, you don't have to go the parks while staying on-site, I would say that is negating the reasons to have DVC for the stay.  If I was not going to the parks, I would just rent out my DVC points (if I had any [LOL], just passed ROFR today on my first DVC contact at Aulani, so waiting for estoppel and closing now).  To me, there are also very other nice places to stay for a much cheaper price than what the stay would cost in Maintenance Fees for the points required to be onsite at a DVC Resort, and not go the parks.  I love the Marriott's Timeshare Resorts as well and often they go for less than $500 cash for a 2-bedrooms unit as getaways on II, and as DVC commands a rental premium that no other timeshare seems to fetch, especially in Orlando, it represent the best value to me:  Stay at DVC when going to the parks, else stay offsite, and rent the DVC points.
> 
> Of course, to each his own, everyone decide what works best for them.  But since reading your postings on TUGBBS back when you were looking to purchase HGVC about the same time I was looking to get into HGVC, you strike me as the kind of person that analyzed everything and look to squeeze out the most value where you can just like me.  It just struck me as funny how your postings and your thinking is just how I usually think also!!!  You are just a lot further along than me in the timeshare world purchasing DVC in addition to HGVC.
> 
> ...


It certainly does devalue using DVC points to stay on property but there is still value there.  Staying on property but not going to the parks still offers certain options/advantages.  If one has other good options, using DVC for say Universal or Sea World stays and the main plan is questionable but some do.  For us we prefer on property all else equal but we also enjoy staying off property.  But then most of my stays are actually on exchanges even though we own DVC.


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## Cyberc (Mar 20, 2019)

ljmiii said:


> I don't know when in February you went to WDW but the crowds around Presidents' Week are third only to those around Easter and Christmas/New Years. For better or worse, it's the calendar we've been stuck with for the past decade or so...
> I think we're just seeing the beginning of this. The introduction of dated tickets really was a 'soft open' - more of a testing of Disney's systems than of what tiered pricing can do. DVC rooms are about twice as expensive in peak season over low - I could easily see the prices for prime weeks like Easter and Christmas skyrocket while low season rates remain steady (or even slightly decline w/4 day packages) to capture 'value' focused visitors.



We went 8-15 of February and the crowds was much worse than May or September. Talked to the front desk and they told me they were sold out (SSR)


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## Cyberc (Mar 20, 2019)

Great3 said:


> While that is true, you don't have to go the parks while staying on-site, I would say that is negating the reasons to have DVC for the stay.  If I was not going to the parks, I would just rent out my DVC points (if I had any [LOL], just passed ROFR today on my first DVC contact at Aulani, so waiting for estoppel and closing now).  To me, there are also very other nice places to stay for a much cheaper price than what the stay would cost in Maintenance Fees for the points required to be onsite at a DVC Resort, and not go the parks.  I love the Marriott's Timeshare Resorts as well and often they go for less than $500 cash for a 2-bedrooms unit as getaways on II, and as DVC commands a rental premium that no other timeshare seems to fetch, especially in Orlando, it represent the best value to me:  Stay at DVC when going to the parks, else stay offsite, and rent the DVC points.
> 
> Of course, to each his own, everyone decide what works best for them.  But since reading your postings on TUGBBS back when you were looking to purchase HGVC about the same time I was looking to get into HGVC, you strike me as the kind of person that analyzed everything and look to squeeze out the most value where you can just like me.  It just struck me as funny how your postings and your thinking is just how I usually think also!!!  You are just a lot further along than me in the timeshare world purchasing DVC in addition to HGVC.
> 
> ...



You could also argue why pay a premium to stay at a resort that you are only sleeping in and not utilizing all it have to offer. Hands down all of my DVC stays have also included parks visits. Even in 2020 I might squeeze in 1-2 days of park visits, at least for my daughter and I. Wife might go shopping while we do the parks, Win win 

I'd really like to see the new SWGE but I expect to see either a phase 3 or 4 closure during some of the days in September because of the crowds. Thats not my kind of fun - so in stead of staying at AKV Club level as we should have done this September we are staying at HGVC Tuscany + a few days at Disney Vero Beach and rented out our DVC reservation. It actually took less than 2min to rent after my posting.

Congrats on the Aulani contract and welcome to the DVC family - Did you get a subsidized or "regular" contract?

Spot on the description of me  Wife sometimes believe that i'm over analyzing things but so far she haven't complained. As the saying goes: Happy wife, Happy Life


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## Cyberc (Mar 20, 2019)

Dean said:


> It certainly does devalue using DVC points to stay on property but there is still value there.  Staying on property but not going to the parks still offers certain options/advantages.  If one has other good options, using DVC for say Universal or Sea World stays and the main plan is questionable but some do.  For us we prefer on property all else equal but we also enjoy staying off property.  But then most of my stays are actually on exchanges even though we own DVC.



We uses both DVC points and exchanges to stay onsite - maximizing our value 

If I was going to universal I might choose to stay onsite at universal and get the perks that comes with that - 1nt gives you perks for two.


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## frank808 (Mar 20, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> We uses both DVC points and exchanges to stay onsite - maximizing our value
> 
> If I was going to universal I might choose to stay onsite at universal and get the perks that comes with that - 1nt gives you perks for two.


When visiting universal I have rented a "burner" room to get 2 days of unlimited express pass.  Cheaper than buying the unlimited express for the 3 of us.  And if you can get the annual pass rates, it gets even cheaper.  Unlimited express for hotel guests is only available for guests at the deluxe resorts of Portofino Bay, Hard Rock Hotel and Royal Pacific Resort.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cyberc (Mar 20, 2019)

frank808 said:


> When visiting universal I have rented a "burner" room to get 2 days of unlimited express pass.  Cheaper than buying the unlimited express for the 3 of us.  And if you can get the annual pass rates, it gets even cheaper.  Unlimited express for hotel guests is only available for guests at the deluxe resorts of Portofino Bay, Hard Rock Hotel and Royal Pacific Resort.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Good idea with the throw-away-room haven't thought about that.


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## Dean (Mar 20, 2019)

frank808 said:


> When visiting universal I have rented a "burner" room to get 2 days of unlimited express pass.  Cheaper than buying the unlimited express for the 3 of us.  And if you can get the annual pass rates, it gets even cheaper.  Unlimited express for hotel guests is only available for guests at the deluxe resorts of Portofino Bay, Hard Rock Hotel and Royal Pacific Resort.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I've seen people do that with DVC as well.  Stay off property, get a room for a night for 2 days pool access and siesta and not uncommonly, get a dining plan option to cover 2 days as well.


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## bnoble (Mar 21, 2019)

frank808 said:


> When visiting universal I have rented a "burner" room to get 2 days of unlimited express pass.


I've done this too. It turned out to be a good value for the four of us.


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## Great3 (Mar 21, 2019)

Cyberc said:


> You could also argue why pay a premium to stay at a resort that you are only sleeping in and not utilizing all it have to offer. Hands down all of my DVC stays have also included parks visits. Even in 2020 I might squeeze in 1-2 days of park visits, at least for my daughter and I. Wife might go shopping while we do the parks, Win win
> 
> I'd really like to see the new SWGE but I expect to see either a phase 3 or 4 closure during some of the days in September because of the crowds. Thats not my kind of fun - so in stead of staying at AKV Club level as we should have done this September we are staying at HGVC Tuscany + a few days at Disney Vero Beach and rented out our DVC reservation. It actually took less than 2min to rent after my posting.
> 
> ...



That's funny, I had a discussion with a friend the other day about DVC, and one of the point was wanting to stay at a really nice DVC villa that you aren't really using because you are the parks all day long from roping dropping in the morning to park closing, and just coming back to sleep only, and not really using the resort at all (not even close to it's full potential).  So, your other argument is right, if you don't go the parks, you are getting maximum value out of the resort / amenities, I can see both sides of the argument.  At the end, to me the benefits associated with going to parks for having a DVC room outweigh the resort itself.  I just find the Marriott's in Orlando to be nicer and more to my liking than DVC resorts.  While I like DVC, I am not a gotta have DVC type of fan.  My wife, on the other hand, adores all things Disney, so I just got along with it because I just want to make her happy , hence we end up with a DVC contract, only comprising on Aulani instead of at WDW.

I bought a subsidized contract, I would never consider a "regular" contract, MF's too high, I would have rather purchase a WDW home resort if there wasn't such as thing as subsidized Aulani contract.

Great3


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## mj2vacation (Apr 2, 2019)

You would probably be amazed at the range of income in dvc owners.  the ability to purchase smaller memberships opened up access to many more people.


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## CK2020 (Jan 9, 2020)

My mom purchased DVC resale back in 2007-2008ish as a single mom/school teacher. I was in high school at the time, and we already had about 7-8 trips in to Disney. Said she wish she would've looked into it sooner. 
She had her house paid off and was able to pay cash for it. We use it and get a lot of value out of it. We don't do the parks all the time and enjoy spending a lot of time at the resort. She feels good about her purchase because we enjoy the vacation. It's also nice to know that she could sell it now for more than she paid 12 years ago which is crazy for a timeshare!


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## Grammarhero (Jan 13, 2020)

I would think it’s similar to MVC - about $155k/yr household income.


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## blondietink (Feb 9, 2020)

We did not buy in to DVC until we were in our late 40's and paid $84 per point.  Mortgage paid off. Husband was at the top step of his teaching career money wise. We saved a lot of our earned income over the years, We Live a frugal life anyway, very frugal. Our house is an old farmhouse and is nothing fancy.  We have 2 adult children with disabilities that live at home.  We don't buy fancy cars and drive them into the ground with over 150,000 miles on them.  We don't buy coffee out and rarely eat out. We live in a high tax state (NY), but are able to make it work.  I would say that you are too young to have saved up enough to buy into DVC. My advice would be to save your money for other things and cut out the fluff stuff.


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## bogey21 (Feb 9, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> Staying on property is a different kettle of fish - my mind boggles whenever I look at the prices Disney currently wants for a hotel room much less for a 1 or 2BR villa. It never occurred to me that a 'normal' person would or could ever stay at the Contemporary Hotel back then....



I'm going back 35-40 years with this but my wife and I and our 3 kids bought a package from Disney that included  something like 5 days at the Contemporary, Park Admission and a number of special events including Breakfast With Minnie and Mickey.  My recollection is that it was expensive but not anywhere near as outrageous as today's prices...

George


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