# Vidanta offers exit strategy from timeshare treadmill?



## Go2Guy

Thanks for all the helpful posts in this Mexico forum, it’s nice to get a perspective from current owners.  We recently attended a Vidanta sales presentation at the Riviera Maya and ended up signing a contract and then rescinding a couple of days later.  The Vidanta employee who handled our rescission was quite professional and didn’t try to talk us out of it.  But at the end, when the rescission was complete, he did make us another, substantially better offer that we are still considering. 

I need some friendly advice from people more experienced in the timeshare world to coach me a little and help vet or evaluate our logic regarding the pending decision to buy into Vidanta for the terms they’ve offered.

One of our main motivations for considering Vidanta is that it appears to provide an Exit Strategy from the timeshare treadmill.

We currently own 37,000 credits as Diamond members of Worldmark, which entitles us to about 3-4 weeks of vacation per year at Worldmark and Wyndham resorts, depending on the quality of the resort (and exchange into RCI and NovaSol for a $249/week exchange fee).  But we’ve been frustrated by two things:
(1)                      There are only a few Worldmark properties that really appeal to us (e.g., Kihei on Maui and a couple in Mexico), and we have a very hard time getting into those because you have to book them 13 months-to-the-day ahead of time! 
(2)                      We pay Maintenance Fees of $226 per month ($2,722 per year!), regardless of whether we use the vacation weeks or not.  This is a financial commitment that will increase by about 5% every year (last year it seemed to go up 11.5%) and one apparently owes it for eternity.  The “forever” ownership that was touted at the time of purchase as a huge benefit for us, our children and our grandchildren, is now turning out to feel like a liability we don’t want to saddle our children (or even ourselves) with.  Even if we WERE to enjoy 3 weeks of vacation through Worldmark, that equates to almost $800 per week ($2,722/3) to stay at a place we had to reserve far in advance and may not match our preferences!  

We are in our early 50’s, work demanding full-time jobs, and have children 5-15 who are not allowed to miss school, so it’s harder to be totally flexible about vacation time in the way a retired couple might be.  When we take a week or two, we want it to be places we sincerely want to go. 

Last year we lost 16,000 Worldmark credits due to their expiring when we didn’t stay on top of it.  Every other year we can use something they call Personal Choice to “spend” the credits on hotels or flights or whatever (if booked through the Worldmark Travel Assistance), but the value per credit is only $0.045 (four and a half cents), and that doesn’t seem a good value for the credits, i.e., you paid $2,722 in Maintenance Fees and got back $1,665 in Personal Choice. 

Just for illustration, in the last couple of years we went to France and Thailand and San Diego and for various reasons didn’t even use the Worldmark credits because:

France - the Worldmark and RCI exchange options are located in the suburbs of Paris, a 45-minute metro to the center, and we ended up using VRBO at $179/night to stay a 10-minute walk from Notre Dame!  
Thailand – There is a new Worldmark property up in the hills outside Patong that I’m sure is very nice, but it is 27,000 credits per week!  That’s like paying $2,000 in Maintenance Fees to stay there one week!  Instead we ended up paying $150 per night to stay across the street from the beach.
San Diego – We made travel plans only one month in advance and there was no remaining availability at Worldmark.

Vidanta caught my eye because it appears to offer an exit strategy from Timeshare purgatory. Vidanta contracts (and sales strategies) seem to be highly customized (and therefore complex), with many options and negotiation tools at play, but the pitch we heard was that with the elimination of a Maintenance Fee its replacement by a Usage Fee, the owner pays only for the weeks actually used.  The main constraint or commitment in this regard is only that:
1.      You have to use 5 weeks in the first 10 years
2.      For weeks you want to exchange through The Registry Collection, San Francisco Exchange, RCI or others, you first pay the full Usage Fee, which varies by size of the unit, and then deposit it into exchange inventory. I think you may have to pay it by Feb of the year you plan to exchange.  (Theoretically you could lose the week if you somehow screw up the use of the exchange credits.)  

Once you pay the purchase price for the unit you “buy”, and then comply with paying the Usage Fee for 5 weeks in the first 10 years, you could walk away from the whole deal without owing anything more.  Alternatively, if you find that you like Vidanta and the properties they exchange with, then you have the option to renew your contract every 10 years, for a max of 9 renewals totaling 100 years. 

The Usage Fee works out to about $150 per night for a studio and $250 per night for a 1-bedroom.  $250 per night is not cheap and nowadays there are a lot of alternatives out there (VRBO, hotel deals, etc) that are cheaper, especially for non-peak periods.  However, from what I saw Vidanta accommodations really are 5-star, top quality and they are worth that or more.  With Worldmark we are already paying $2,400 per year, so IF we manage to use it for 3 weeks of vacation that works out to less than $100/night.  But for any year that we only manage to find 1 week at a Worldmark place we care to spend our vacation time, that works out to $240/night to stay at (what is usually) a mediocre resort.

If I had never owned a Timeshare, I’d probably stay away and just vacation through “a la carte” decisions and the maximum flexibility now afforded by options like VRBO, which in my opinion threaten to render timeshares into outdated dinosaurs.  But because we already own Worldmark shares and they represent a financial liability FOREVER, that’s troubling to us, and we are seriously considering trading in our Worldmark ownership for a Vidanta contract that commits us to taking at least 5 relatively expensive vacations there in the next 10 years, but thereafter we’re free to use our weeks, or not, with no other financial penalty.

I’m sharing this interpretation in hopes of having it vetted and evaluated by people who may have already been through the process themselves, and also to share with folks who might want to explore this option as an exit strategy that allows you to enjoy top notch properties in the near- to medium-term.


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## bizaro86

Your Worlmark account is worth between $7000 and $11000, depending on how many unused credits you have. It would be very easy to sell if you don't want it. 

It seems to me that you are almost certainly better off selling and just booking VRBO if you don't have the ability to plan far in advance and be flexible. 

As an example, I traded into a 4 bedroom Grande Luxxe (off season mind you) and that trade was available using my resale worldmark,  although I used something even cheaper. Spring break 2019 (for our scool district) was also available in a 2 bedroom for 10k WM credits plus the exchange fee. 

Planning ahead, WM will almost certainly be cheaper than owning Vidanta. If you can't plan well ahead, then you should probably sell the WM and use the proceeds plus the savings to rent where you want to go.

I can't see paying Vidanta more cash, plus giving them your WM (which has real value). You might be better served renting from Vidanta owners when you really want to go there.


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## Eric B

In my opinion, there are a few holes in the deal that you should consider.  I own at Grand Luxxe Nuevo Vallarta and probably spent way too much for the right to use the Vidanta properties and would recommend that you not purchase it unless you are dead set on wanting to go there in the high season (i.e., February or so).  Vidanta sizes their properties for the high season and has availabilities in the shoulder season that you can either rent from third parties or exchange through SFX or The Registry Collection into.  Most of their properties are available through RCI as well, and sometimes the Grand Luxxe ones show up in the lower season for RCI Platinum members.  I believe I had replied to you in a different thread about the possibility of staying there for significantly less than the usage fee if you do the homework and figure out how to do it.

The "trade in" option they offer has significant issues that you can find discussed in many threads on TUG.  Bottom line, in my opinion, is that it's not a sure thing and they try to take your money in advance to take your current timeshare off your hands without coming through at times.  That's a different discussion, but you would probably be better off, in my opinion, figuring out how to trade your current timeshare to stay down there or go elsewhere, giving your current one away on TUG and getting a more efficient trading one, or figuring out how to rent from the appropriate timeshare owners rather than buying this offer and using it.  I believe that the usage fees are a bit too high to then trade through The Registry Collection or SFX, where you'll pay additional fees and annual membership costs, to make this a good approach.

All that being said, I haven't seen the contract they are offering you, but would be very hesitant to invest further after having found the wealth of knowledge that is available here on TUG.  Your contract sounds a lot different than mine, but I still wouldn't do it; you may have a much broader set of al a carte options without owning there if you take into account the savings on the purchase price.


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## geist1223

Assuming your Worldmark Account is fully paid off bizaro86 is right on for secondary market value. Remember Diamond EliteTravelshare Status does not transfer upon resell. The Points/Credits transfer as WM not WM+A or WMTS. Also Wyndham has The Ovation Program for you to sell/give back to Wyndham. So you can also contact them. Call the VPC and ask to be transferred to OC. OC should be able to give you the contact # for Ovation. I believe the info for Ovation is also on worldmarktheclub.com Web Site.

Another avenue is to go to the Forum of www.wmowners.com. You can find some great advice there and they have a section for people to sell their Worldmark Accounts. If you want to move it quicker you should offer to pay Closing Costs and the Transfer Fee. Also there is a section to rent out your Points to other Worldmark Owners.

This is neither a positive point nor a negative point. Just a factual point. A Worldmark Credit/Point System is not for everyone. If you care about where you go but can not Plan 13 months in advance and be Online at 6am West Coast Time. Then Worldmark may not be for you.

Also did you know that Worldmark has a Wait List and you can have up to 4 separate Wait Lists pending at any given time. I have successfully gotten a week at Kihei in a 3 bedroom and I started the Wait List 8 weeks before my arrival date. The days dribbled in - a day here, two days there, until I had 7 days in a roll.


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## T-Dot-Traveller

Dear Go2Guy ,
I would say bizaro86 & Eric B  and giest1223 have given you good information .

1)IMO - the Vidanta  trade in likely works with a Worldmark  BECAUSE it can easily be resold  on ebay . BUT why not do that yourself and pocket the cash .
Alternately figure out how to use it .

2) Eric B is correct - Feb high season  - may be a reason to own Vidanta BUT the rest of the time there are other options that you should explore .

3) The offer through member services could be re- accessed in the future . The 5 day rescind period gives you control .
You would have to do another breakfast & sales presentation , accept a sales offer . (then read it) , book with member services & rescind and then start
negotiating . Read info in prior TUG posts from Mikenk  , Grand Luxxe owner regarding this .

If you truly want Vidanta - find a 2003 or so Grand Mayan - where the vacation fare week also transfers and the Vidanta transfer fee is 10% of original sale price
( likely about $3000) <It will be a 25 year contract with 10 or 11 years left and 2 remaining reno fees ( a second MF every 5 years )>  and  if you want Grand Luxxe
you will get full trade in value based on the original purchase price of the Grand Mayan .
These are harder to find but one was on TUG last year .


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## WatsonC2

We like to stay at the Vidanta resorts as they are some of the only non AI resorts in Mexico that trade on RCI or II and we simply enjoy them.  We've stayed at GM NV and GM RM, booking ours through RCI trades or Getaways.  My Brother in law owns Vidanta Mayan Palace and although I'm not certain exactly what his maintenance fees are for a week when he upgrades to GM, I think what we pay is comparable and maybe even a little less.  With the turmoil on Wyndham (our trader) right now I've considered selling it (or gifting it) but like the RCI membership it comes with and if I can book a Vidanta every couple years with it and not have to hassle with owning another timeshare, that works quite well for me.


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## TUGBrian

sadly this sounds just like another flavor of the "Trade in" program that mexican resorts have been doing for quite some time now.

rest assured that one way or another, this is a great deal for the resort..and a terrible one for you.   as mentioned above, WM has some resale value and you could easily get rid of via the resale market.

as for vidanta, you can likely do a search on a number of other threads that would paint a much less than rosy picture of how their sales process works.


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## Iggyearl

I would add that the transaction you are considering is a 3 way transaction.  You would be buying the product that Vidanta wants to sell you.  They would be signing you up with a third party to sell your timeshare in a separate transaction.  If your present timeshare fails to sell, you still own it.  I would recommend that you google "Equity Acquisition Services"  which has been used as a reseller by Vidanta in the past.  After signing the contract with Vidanta, people have been contacted by the reseller and asked to pay an additional fee to sell their already paid for timeshare.  If they balk at the fee, the reseller offers to sell the timeshare back to the original owner for a sum ranging up to the thousands of dollars.  Imagine buying back your own timeshare for money....  In any event I would recommend not getting drawn into a discussion about buying a new timeshare in order to get out of another.  Good luck


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## bizaro86

Also, if you truly want the Vidanta, I would try to negotiate a price where you keep your WM. I doubt they actually want it. 

You will be able to sell it for at least the $7k I mentioned very quickly, and I bet Vidanta would give you the same deal for what you're paying them plus much less than $7k. 

Anyway, I would still recommend not buying Vidanta retail, but that might be a way to make it a better deal if you decide you do truly want it.


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## VacationForever

I cannot comment on Vidanta but I would not buy into a Mexican timeshare system, but that is just me.  For Worldmark credits, the going rate is 30 cents to 40 cents per point, depending on whether it is fully loaded or not.  The cleanest way will be to sell your Worldmark credits through wmowners.com, instead of using it as trade in for buying into Vidanta.  Sell your Worldmark credit first since it does not suit your needs.  After that take your time to figure out what exactly do you want to do.


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## geist1223

Several years ago we traded in Raintree as part of the payment to Royal Solaris. This enabled us to upgrade our Solaris Account basically for free. It was a RVC Platinum Account 80,000 Points per year. We found out later that it went to a Resell Company. We found out it is some sort of Tax Dodge for Solaris (and other Mexican Timeshare companies) to lower their taxes or get a tax credit. The company wanted to sell it back to us for a $1,000. We ended up negotiating a price of $400. Which a friend reimbursed us and she got the RVC Platinum Account for $400. Between our use and trade in value we more than recovered our couple thousand investment in the RVC Platinum Account.


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## Eric B

I posted a discussion of timeshares with Vidanta in this thread -http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/global-vacation-trade-agreement-gotcha.248221/.  In my opinion, the concept of a timeshare trade in for another one is a sales gimmick scam; the sales staff knows what timeshares are worth, after all.  I'm unfamiliar with the value of Worldmark or RVC points, which sounds like it might be more than a typical timeshare, but believe one would always be better off dealing with disposing of it oneself rather than trading it in (and potentially being talked into paying anything to the reseller for just leaving it in your ownership, which sounds like a likely outcome).  I have read some posts in which Vidanta has pressured the resale company into actually completing a transaction and relieving the individual of their continuing need to pay maintenance fees, etc., but many more where they were persuaded to pay some fee to the resale company to just stop bothering them.  I won't go through my prior posting on the subject, but don't buy into the idea that an enforceable contract is created with a third party for the trade in when you agree to it in a sales presentation; if you look carefully at the document you'll see nothing obligating the third party resale company to do anything.  In the end, I wound up working it out with Vidanta and having the third party provide me with a letter waiving any rights in my original timeshare for $0, not that I ever believed they had any rights in it.  I'm happy that it worked out for geist with the friend reimbursing them for the $400, which doesn't seem unreasonable, but the bottom line is that you probably wind up at the same final price for the new timeshare/RTU whether or not you "trade in" an old one.

As far as the tax lowering or tax credit goes, the resort you trade in with never actually receives the timeshare, all they do is agree to a final price with you.  When I looked at the final documents, I noted that the tax on the sale matched the percentage of the final price it should have been.  Bearing in mind that this is typically a right to use in Mexico, I don't really see how there would be any tax effect attributable to capital gains or losses in the value of the RTU, particularly with the restrictions on alienation of that right included in the Vidanta contracts.


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## pittle

You have had some good advice.  We did not buy our first timeshare until our children were in college. We have loved having them and have had numerous weeks (many bought on eBay) that we have used for large family vacations and month long vacations after we retired.  We have pared ours down in the past few years as we too, have discovered VRBO/HomeAway.  We are currently in the Rosarita/Ensenada area in an oceanfront condo for a month for less $$$ than a week in our Grand Luxxe.  Plus, we could bring our dog!  

With your current situation, you do not need a Mayan World (my term for Vidanta properites) or WM points.  If you can sell your WM points for $7-11,000, and have no MF to pay, you could have money in the bank for renting when and where you want to go.  Just my opinion.


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## Go2Guy

I really appreciate all the great advice Bizaro, Eric B, T-Dot, Geist and others, and everybody’s attention to detail.  As always, the devil is in the details so I’ll share more specifics that may significantly change the conversation because our WM is far from being paid off.

Worldmark now:  We get 37,000 credits every year and I think they expire after 2 years.  We still owe $39,000 on the loan. (I realize that must change our WM valuation drastically.) We have 84,000 active credits accumulated, plus another 29,000 that would have already expired except that I have them parked in reservations (ones that unfortunately I probably won’t be able to use!)  Maintenance fees currently $226/mo = $2,400 per year.  Exchange is available to us through RCI and Nova Sol, but I think that’s all.  We are eligible to use Personal Choice every other year.  We have a boatload of RCI certificate weeks they’ve given us, but haven’t used.  I’m understand many benefits would not transfer upon sale.  

Vidanta, proposed:  The sale price, after many negotiated discounts, is now at $33,291.  So our loan would go down, even after paying TRM the $1,000 they charge to “list” – and hypothetically sell in 6-12 months – our Worldmark. 

The Vidanta offer includes:
a)      *2 Red weeks* per year of *Grand Luxxe Loft* (or perhaps Deluxxe Suite, still open to negotiation), i.e., anytime but Christmas, New Year, Holy Week, or Easter week.  However, we agreed to relinquish these 2 weeks for the first 6 years in exchange for help getting the purchase price down to $33,291.  This is renewable after 10 years, up to 100 years.
b)    2 additional *Vida Weeks* per year through SFX, whereby we pay only the SFX Occupancy Fee(s).  SFX Platinum membership paid for 2 years.  Renewable up to 100 years.
c)      1 additional week at *Vidanta* every other year, specifically the even years.  This contract is 10 years, so we are required to use a total of 5 weeks during those 10 years. 
d)    *2 additional* *SFX Privilege Weeks* with no blackout dates, for use either through SFX or directly at Vidanta.  Renewable every 10 years for up to 100 years.
e)      2 years platinum membership in Registry Collection and SFX.
f)      *Vida Dollars* of $3,000 for each of the 2 weeks through SFX mentioned above in (b).
g)    50% off golf green fees

The two Privilege Weeks sounded to me like a valuable part of the offer, and led me to think I could reserve high season weeks and re-sell them on VRBO for higher than the Usage Fee (how much higher, I’m not sure?), and thereby recover some of the investment.  I don’t aspire to be a timeshare realtor, but I could handle re-selling two high-demand weeks per year.  I called SFX and they told me there is still Vidanta inventory available for Easter 2018.

So the rationale for Vidanta is:
·        our loan would decrease a bit,
·        I could re-sell some peak season weeks to recoup some money,
·        we can exchange into more desirable properties in Europe and Asia through Registry Collection, and
·        our 5 stays at Vidanta in the next 10 years are a 5-star experience not typical of Worldmark or RCI.
·        We exit the “for eternity” commitment at WM.  It’s NOT that I’m dying to get into Vidanta, you’ve all explained there are other ways to stay there.  I’m more seeking “damage control” for the WM we bought and are still paying for (loan + MFs).  I don’t mind pre-committing $2,400+ as MFs per year towards vacations, but I do mind it if there’s no availability at the places I want to go, or if it’s so constrained I can’t comfortably to use it.

(Before learning of Vidanta I was already resorting to the idea of re-selling Worldmark reservations as a way to salvage my accumulated credits, but WM is so oversold and so many others are already doing the same thing, all the most marketable reservations seem to be booked out for over a year.) 

Bizaro86 or others, do you have a revised valuation of our WM shares?  If our 37,000 shares are worth $0.30 to $0.40/share then at best that’s $14,800 and doesn’t even cover half of our remaining loan.  I don’t follow..., other than to surmise we severely overpaid for our WM to begin with.

For what it’s worth, Vidanta told us they were valuing our Worldmark shares (purchased in Kihei, in case that matters) at $59,900 retail and $36,500 wholesale.  They explained that they take it as a loss at the end of the tax year.  They reassured us the WM would eventually sell through TRM and we wouldn’t be stuck with two timeshares, but it would almost certainly take 6-12 months.

We have used the waitlist at WM, and also gleaned that there are some tricks for maneuvering around the 13-month window, but had very mixed success.  No experience yet with RCI or Nova Sol, mostly because the available destinations didn’t match up with our plans, you have to commit to entire weeks that begin on a Fri, Sat or Sun (we generally like to stay 3-4 days in a place and then move on), and you’re still paying $249 exchange fee for what looks like unremarkable lodging. It all seems very rigid.

I’d especially appreciate advice on the following:
·        Valuation of the WM ownership
·        Best ways to recover value from my WM credit balance, including the credits parked in reservations.
·        I’m concerned about being left with responsibility for the WM loan and MFs.  I have a call scheduled with TRM (Vidanta's reseller) this week; any questions y'all want to recommend I ask them?  I have heard that if they haven’t re-sold the listed contract within 12 months they offer to refund the $1,000 or continue listing it for another year. 

I will continue studying more about how to use WM, Ovation, the WM Forums; relevant and recommended threads appreciated. 

THANKS!


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## VacationForever

One quick note, you can rent out unused points to other WM owners. I think you can find that info on wmowners.com site as well.  That will cover at least your MF in the meantime.


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## Iggyearl

They reassured us the WM would eventually sell through TRM and we wouldn’t be stuck with two timeshares, but it would almost certainly take 6-12 months.

This quote is potential dynamite to your deal.  If Vida is buying your timeshare, that is one thing.  If Vida is saying that their associate firm will sell your timeshare, that's another.  These are 2 separate transactions.  WM owners can put a better value on your current timeshare, but it appears that you are "underwater," as you have a note.  That note has to be satisfied in order to sell your timeshare.  My guess is that the re-seller is overly optimistic and if they don't sell it, even if they return your $1,000 fee - you lose.  You then own 2 timeshares.  As was the case with Equity Acquisition Services, the re-seller exists only as a vehicle to get you in to Vida.  You might consider telling Vida that you will sign their paperwork AFTER the WM contract is sold.  That would take a lot of the gamble out of the equation.  And it might expose the deal for what it is.


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## TUGBrian

if they are valuing your WM ownership at 60 thousand...knowing full well its worth only a small fraction of that on the resale market...just think of how much they are fleecing you on the "trade in" price for what you are buying.

its like a car dealer offering you 60 thousand dollars on a 2005 honda civic if you buy this 100 thousand dollar 2006 honda civic!


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## ilene13

Just as a side note we have traded into the GL in both Nuevo and Riviera Maya 5 times during high season through II.  I have a 6th exchange coming up in 2019'


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## pittle

This is NOT a good deal.  A resale company is not going to get enough money to pay off your WM points.  I am also leery of the fact that you cannot use it for 5 times.

Did you know that many GL owners cannot get a reservation at peak times?  Many can only book 6 months ahead and others have the 12 month window for booking.  When we only had the 6 month window, I spent all day using speed dial to get in to the switchboard to make a February reservation.  It was much easier once we had the 12 month, but still is a hassle and we do not even travel in February or March any more.

I use SFX and was searching for 2 weeks next April.  I was not using any bonus weeks or one of my GL units, but was able to secure 2 Grand Bliss weeks at Riviera Maya.  I had had a search in for GL for 2 years before I told them I would take a GB if it became available.  I snagged them when they called - even though the weeks were not the ones I preferred.  If you are wanting Holiday weeks, that will be trickier than you think.

I have never found a good deal with Registry Collection.  We did not renew.

I would check with WM and see what they could do for you to give them their points back.

We have found the key to timesharing is to buy where you want to go and go there - at least most of the time.  You can do an occasional exchange, but those are often more work and you can be disappointed.


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## geist1223

I sincerely doubt that any one will be able to sell your Worldmark for anything close to what you still owe own it. I have seen Worldmark Accounts with money still owing either not sell on EBAY or sell for $1 and the buyer takes over the Payments on the Note. Neither Worldmark nor Wyndham is going to let you off the Hook for the ongoing maintenance fees. Neither Wyndham or other party holding the Note going to let you off the Hook for your Monthly Payments on the Note.

It does not matter what Vidanta told you or even what they put in the Contract Worldmark and Wyndham are going to look to you until the Contract is paid off. So unless Vidanta is willing to Pony up the cash to pay off your Note in the end you will be left with having to pay maintenance fees to Worldmark, Monthly Payments on your Note, and whatever you end up owing Vidanta.


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## bizaro86

Your WM isn't worth the loan amount. With all those points in the contract, it would sell for a higher amount, probably on the $10-$14k range,  which would still leave you bringing cash to close.

Alternatively, WM loans are assumable. If I were you I would list it on ebay for $1 with an assumable loan. Play up all the points that are immediately available, and offer to pay the $299 transfer fee. You might get someone to bite, or you may have to pay it down a bit more first.

Rescind Vidanta. They won't pay off your WM loan, and their reseller won't be able to sell it. If you go through with this, you will end up with a Vidanta TS loan and a WM TS loan, and from the sounds of that Vidanta contract, I don't think you'll be happy with it either.

You are under water on your worldmark, but this won't help with that.


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## Go2Guy

Wow, this is all sobering and disturbing advice, folks.  
Considering we bought the bulk of our Worldmark shares only two years ago and still owe $38,000 on the note, is there really no way to exit from this commitment and the associated MFs?  It’s not like we’ve already received, used, and benefited from what we bought.  Worldmark already got our downpayment and MFs to date, and we are in good standing.  Shouldn’t there be an exit clause for these TMs?  Has this whole phenomenon never been tested in a class action lawsuit?

*Alternative 1*: The consensus seems to be that our WM shares are worthless, and that our only real exit is to cut our losses by selling on eBay for $1 and hope someone takes over the payments.  We lose all money paid thus far, having gotten in return only the few weeks of vacation we’ve already taken.
*Alternative 2*: Learn to use our WM credits better, i.e., vacationing with WM when we can, re-selling the desirable reservations we manage to make but don’t have time to use ourselves, and straight up selling excess credits we have accumulated.  
*Alternative 3*: Risk the Vidanta option.  Honestly, what Vida proposed sounds to us preferable to owning WM (because our loan amount remains almost the same, we stay at 5-star Vidanta every couple of years, we re-sell some Vidanta peak weeks on-line, and/or trade into Registry Collection or SFX.)  HOWEVER, some of you seem quite confident that Vidanta is essentially lying to us and that the reseller TRM (Timeshare Resale Market, formerly Equity Acquisitions) will not be able to sell our WM, will come back asking for lots more money, or leave us still owing for both the loan payments and the MFs.  
_
T-Dot wrote:  "Vida /Grupo Vidanta/ Mayan has a long history of doing "trade ins" and there is a (long) fall 2015 Tug thread that includes some info of positive outcomes --see<.Dr Guy a Grand Luxxe owner says his did -Nov 11 2015- post 22 Thread Purchased Grand Luxxe - started by Seema who also purchase GL with a trade in >"  





T-Dot-Traveller said:



			Vida /Grupo Vidanta/ Mayan has a long history of doing "trade ins" and there is a (long) fall 2015 Tug thread that includes some info of positive outcomes --see<.Dr Guy a Grand Luxxe owner says his did -Nov 11 2015- post 22 Thread Purchased Grand Luxxe - started by Seema who also purchase GL with a trade in >.
		
Click to expand...

_​
Notwithstanding the horror stories from year’s past, I can’t help wondering if in recent years Vida and TRM business practices have improved and there is a positive outcome for more people?  The way Vida explained to us, their recent partnership with Cirque du Soleil (one of the most recognized and well-regarded brands out there) forced Vida to resolve many former issues and avoid them in the future.

I have a call directly with TRM and they seem to think we are in contract (evidently they never received notice that I had rescinded?), so I’ll be interested to hear their pitch and explanation of what’s ahead. 

I'm also curious what it is that makes you say, Bizaro, that we won't be happy anyway... : 


bizaro86 said:


> If you go through with this, you will end up with a Vidanta TS loan and a WM TS loan, and from the sounds of that Vidanta contract, I don't think you'll be happy with it either.


----------



## VacationForever

Go2Guy said:


> I'm also curious what it is that makes you say, Bizaro, that we won't be happy anyway... :


Mexican timeshare groups have a long history of the so called trade ins, where the owners still end up being stuck with their old timeshare and the new Mexican timeshare.  It is their marketing ploy and there really is no trade in.


----------



## WatsonC2

Trust in the real world experiences you see on TUG and be skeptical of sales promises.


----------



## TUGBrian

unfortunately alternative 1 isnt even an option for you if you still owe 38,000 on the loan.

even finding a willing taker, you simply cant transfer ownership until the loan balance is paid off.


----------



## pittle

One other thing you have not added into your equation - before you can deposit with Registry Collection or SFX, you must pay your MF.  All the extra weeks must have the MF amount paid in order to use them.  Read all the fine print!!!  We own GL and have lots of extra weeks available, but must pay the MF before you can, then there is the exchange company fee, and exchange fee, and guest certificate for when you rent, you have lots of $$$ already invested.

We do not want to be gloom & doom, but you are looking at jumping from the frying pan into the fire here.  I love Mayan Resorts and worked their system by starting at the bottom and buying resale for pennies on the dollar (most costs were the transfer fees) and then could roll all my weeks into GL.  Along the way, they added lots of extra "benefits" to to our contracts and we are in great shape.  Your situation is totally different and not a good deal for you.  I really hate to say that because I absolutely love the resorts.

The bottom line is that timeshares have absolutely no value.  Check eBay.  They are basically prepaid vacations with annual MF. We have taken so many awesome vacations that we would not have if we did not know we needed to use or lose out time.  Timeshares are not an investment - they are an incentive to actually take a vacation to a nice place.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

TUGBrian said:


> if they are valuing your WM ownership at 60 thousand...knowing full well its worth only a small fraction of that on the resale market...just think of how much they are fleecing you on the "trade in" price for what you are buying.
> 
> its like a car dealer offering you 60 thousand dollars on a 2005 honda civic if you buy this 100 thousand dollar 2006 honda civic!



******
I totally agree with this statement By TUGBrian .

******
I have never heard on TUG of a "TS trade in" working when there is a loan balance .This does not mean it is impossible - but I think the math (as TUGBrian noted ) makes no sense,
given the "depreciation " of TS from developer price .
ie - you have a $39,000 loan balance and your Worldmark  contract is worth $11,000 approx. ( per WM owners who have posted above )

*****
Vidanta "trade ins" work best - when the (fully paid for)  property traded in will easily sell on ebay and the TS  has some dollar positive value.
Ie your TS is a 2006 fully paid for  Honda Civic with 170,000 miles . Lets say it is worth $1200 on the wholesale market . Vidanta gives you a trade in value
of $8000 when you buy their TS ( mostly smoke & mirrors ) and have the disposal company sell it on ebay . Similar to a car dealer giving a $ 2000 trade in
allowance off sticker price and then getting $ 500 at the disposal dealer auction .

IMO - If your giving Vidanta  50K+ for a Grand Luxxe -they(probably) pay the disposal company fee / if it is a 10 K ( net - after negotiation) contract , you pay $ 1500 or so (additional) to the disposal company , 


FYI - most of the positive outcomes I am aware of listed "Global " in the TUG threads . " Global " to my understanding is a disposal company that works with Vidanta
in Nuevo Vallarta .


----------



## bizaro86

TUGBrian said:


> unfortunately alternative 1 isnt even an option for you if you still owe 38,000 on the loan.
> 
> even finding a willing taker, you simply cant transfer ownership until the loan balance is paid off.



That isn't true for Worldmark. The loan's are assumable, and perversely, having a loan makes the account sell for more. The OP might be able to get someone to take over their loan payments.

As an example, this ebay auction just sold with lots of bidders, and was for more than $1 per WM credit. It is a smaller account than the OP, but comparable valuation wise.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/232435923592?_mwBanner=1


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## pittle

Here is one similar to yours that was paid for and sold for $2601.   Many others have not sold.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDMARK-B...714106?hash=item3d45013cfa:g:QiMAAOSwD~xZlP0B


----------



## VacationForever

pittle said:


> Here is one similar to yours that was paid for and sold for $2601.   Many others have not sold.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDMARK-B...714106?hash=item3d45013cfa:g:QiMAAOSwD~xZlP0B


This has not been sold.  6 days left for bidding.  I would expect that it will come close to $11-14K when all is said and done.


----------



## bizaro86

pittle said:


> Here is one similar to yours that was paid for and sold for $2601.   Many others have not sold.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDMARK-B...714106?hash=item3d45013cfa:g:QiMAAOSwD~xZlP0B


That auction has 6 days left, that will sell for more than that (I guarantee it, because if it's still at that price I'll bid )


----------



## pittle

I had put completed listings in and that one had come up.  My bad.  Here is one that sold on Friday for $9600.  But even if he sold them for $10,000, he would still owe $28,000 on WM plus the $33,000+ for Vidanta.  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-b...146367?hash=item4b1f5401bf:g:YtEAAOSwCJRZjI4J


----------



## TUGBrian

n


bizaro86 said:


> That isn't true for Worldmark. The loan's are assumable, and perversely, having a loan makes the account sell for more. The OP might be able to get someone to take over their loan payments.
> 
> As an example, this ebay auction just sold with lots of bidders, and was for more than $1 per WM credit. It is a smaller account than the OP, but comparable valuation wise.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/232435923592?_mwBanner=1




oone is going to assume a 38,000 loan for worldmark credits...im sorry.


----------



## geist1223

You mentioned a Class Action Law Suit. Good luck. You entered a Contract with Wyndham and Worldmark. You were an adult. No part of the Contract guaranteed you a future value of your Account. No part of the Contract guaranteed you an Exit Stragedy after the Recission Period.

Neither Vidanta nor the Resell Company they use can get you out of your Contract. Neither Vidanta nor their resell company will be able to resell your Worldmark Account for anywhere near what you still owe on the Contract.

You say that the Resell Company will give you your $1,000 back if they can not sell it after 12 months. You will have to make all loan payments during the 12 months. You will have to make all Maintenance Fee payments during that 12 months. Plus your Vidanta payments. At the end of 12 months it is too late to rescind the Vidanta Contract.  You will owe Vidanta. You still own your Worldmark. You still owe on your Worldmark Account Contract. You still owe Maintenance Fees to Worldmark. You get a whopping $1,000 back - a drop in the bucket. If the Mexican Resell Company does not sell your Worldmark and/or refuses to give you a $1,000.00 back you run to Vidanta and they say not our problem. That is a separate contract with a separate company not with Vidanta.


----------



## bizaro86

TUGBrian said:


> noone is going to assume a 38,000 loan for worldmark credits...im sorry.



I'm not the OP, and I would never take out a loan for a TS. But people do, and not having a downpayment is attractive to some people.  

The OP has a loan of roughly $1 per credit. The ebay auction I linked above had 5 bidders competing to take over a loan that was $1.38 per credit. It was a smaller account/loan, but 5 people wanted to take over that nearly  $14k loan, and someone felt strongly enough about it to throw in an extra $700.

I'm not confident the OP would find someone, but I don't hunk it's impossible, and I'd be either copying that ebay listing or getting timeshare angels to do one for me if I was in the OPs situation.


----------



## VacationForever

bizaro86 said:


> I'm not the OP, and I would never take out a loan for a TS. But people do, and not having a downpayment is attractive to some people.
> 
> The OP has a loan of roughly $1 per credit. The ebay auction I linked above had 5 bidders competing to take over a loan that was $1.38 per credit. It was a smaller account/loan, but 5 people wanted to take over that nearly  $14k loan, and someone felt strongly enough about it to throw in an extra $700.
> 
> I'm not confident the OP would find someone, but I don't hunk it's impossible, and I'd be either copying that ebay listing or getting timeshare angels to do one for me if I was in the OPs situation.



At 14K for 10K, that is pretty close to about 19K for 10K the last time I spoke with a WM sales rep.  He started with $40K or so, and then the "specials" were running for about 19K.  I doubt any of the bidders will go through with their successful bids.


----------



## bizaro86

VacationForever said:


> At 14K for 10K, that is pretty close to about 19K for 10K the last time I spoke with a WM sales rep.  He started with $40K or so, and then the "specials" were running for about 19K.  I doubt any of the bidders will go through with their successful bids.



Maybe not. I was surprised there were 5 bidders. That makes me think out of the 5 one would probably be serious enough to go through with it.


----------



## dominidude

See my response below in red. Short version, your WM ownership has at least 2 exit strategies, selling it for cash (best, preferred method), or using Wyndham's ovation program (Dont do it, it's just giving it away for free back to Wyndham).



Go2Guy said:


> One of our main motivations for considering Vidanta is that it appears to provide an Exit Strategy from the timeshare treadmill.
> There is no timeshare treadmill, there's just poorly informed owners that buy from the developer.
> 
> We currently own 37,000 credits as Diamond members of Worldmark, which entitles us to about 3-4 weeks of vacation per year at Worldmark and Wyndham resorts, depending on the quality of the resort (and exchange into RCI and NovaSol for a $249/week exchange fee).  But we’ve been frustrated by two things:
> (1)                      There are only a few Worldmark properties that really appeal to us (e.g., Kihei on Maui and a couple in Mexico), and we have a very hard time getting into those because you have to book them 13 months-to-the-day ahead of time!
> If planning ahead is not your cup of tea, then timesharing is not for you, and you should sell
> 
> (2)                      We pay Maintenance Fees of $226 per month ($2,722 per year!), regardless of whether we use the vacation weeks or not.  This is a financial commitment that will increase by about 5% every year (last year it seemed to go up 11.5%) and one apparently owes it for eternity.  The “forever” ownership that was touted at the time of purchase as a huge benefit for us, our children and our grandchildren, is now turning out to feel like a liability we don’t want to saddle our children (or even ourselves) with.  Even if we WERE to enjoy 3 weeks of vacation through Worldmark, that equates to almost $800 per week ($2,722/3) to stay at a place we had to reserve far in advance and may not match our preferences!
> 
> That is actually a bargain, per your own calculations, you are paying between $680 and $907 per week to stay at resorts that usually go for 2 to 4 times that amounts.
> 
> We are in our early 50’s, work demanding full-time jobs, and have children 5-15 who are not allowed to miss school, so it’s harder to be totally flexible about vacation time in the way a retired couple might be.  When we take a week or two, we want it to be places we sincerely want to go.
> 
> I have 3 kids, all in school, I love timesharing because "When we take a week or two, we want it to be places we sincerely want to go." However, planning ahead is a must, and it seems you cant/wont do that.
> 
> Last year we lost 16,000 Worldmark credits due to their expiring when we didn’t stay on top of it.  Every other year we can use something they call Personal Choice to “spend” the credits on hotels or flights or whatever (if booked through the Worldmark Travel Assistance), but the value per credit is only $0.045 (four and a half cents), and that doesn’t seem a good value for the credits, i.e., you paid $2,722 in Maintenance Fees and got back $1,665 in Personal Choice.
> 
> OMG, by letting your credit expire, you lost about $1120. Go to WMOWNERS.com and realize that people regularly pay 7 cents per credit, that's cash in your pocket every year if you so choose. And renting points is EASY. Just list the credits you want to rent on WMOWNERS.com, GET PAID first, then transfer the credits using your worldmark account page. Really, it's that easy.
> 
> Just for illustration, in the last couple of years we went to France and Thailand and San Diego and for various reasons didn’t even use the Worldmark credits because:
> 
> France - the Worldmark and RCI exchange options are located in the suburbs of Paris, a 45-minute metro to the center, and we ended up using VRBO at $179/night to stay a 10-minute walk from Notre Dame!
> See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!
> 
> Thailand – There is a new Worldmark property up in the hills outside Patong that I’m sure is very nice, but it is 27,000 credits per week!  That’s like paying $2,000 in Maintenance Fees to stay there one week!  Instead we ended up paying $150 per night to stay across the street from the beach.
> See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!
> 
> San Diego – We made travel plans only one month in advance and there was no remaining availability at Worldmark.
> See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!
> 
> Vidanta caught my eye because it appears to offer an exit strategy from Timeshare purgatory. Vidanta contracts (and sales strategies) seem to be highly customized (and therefore complex), with many options and negotiation tools at play, but the pitch we heard was that with the elimination of a Maintenance Fee its replacement by a Usage Fee, the owner pays only for the weeks actually used.  The main constraint or commitment in this regard is only that:
> 1.      You have to use 5 weeks in the first 10 years
> 2.      For weeks you want to exchange through The Registry Collection, San Francisco Exchange, RCI or others, you first pay the full Usage Fee, which varies by size of the unit, and then deposit it into exchange inventory. I think you may have to pay it by Feb of the year you plan to exchange.  (Theoretically you could lose the week if you somehow screw up the use of the exchange credits.)
> 
> Once you pay the purchase price for the unit you “buy”, and then comply with paying the Usage Fee for 5 weeks in the first 10 years, you could walk away from the whole deal without owing anything more.  Alternatively, if you find that you like Vidanta and the properties they exchange with, then you have the option to renew your contract every 10 years, for a max of 9 renewals totaling 100 years.
> 
> The Usage Fee works out to about $150 per night for a studio and $250 per night for a 1-bedroom.  $250 per night is not cheap and nowadays there are a lot of alternatives out there (VRBO, hotel deals, etc) that are cheaper, especially for non-peak periods.  However, from what I saw Vidanta accommodations really are 5-star, top quality and they are worth that or more.  With Worldmark we are already paying $2,400 per year, so IF we manage to use it for 3 weeks of vacation that works out to less than $100/night.  But for any year that we only manage to find 1 week at a Worldmark place we care to spend our vacation time, that works out to $240/night to stay at (what is usually) a mediocre resort.
> 
> DO NOT BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER, BUY RESALE (enough said). Whatever the developer offered, you could get on the resale market for 90% to 100% discount, whether in the TUG market place or in eBay. REALLY!
> 
> If I had never owned a Timeshare, I’d probably stay away and just vacation through “a la carte” decisions and the maximum flexibility now afforded by options like VRBO, which in my opinion threaten to render timeshares into outdated dinosaurs.  But because we already own Worldmark shares and they represent a financial liability FOREVER, that’s troubling to us, and we are seriously considering trading in our Worldmark ownership for a Vidanta contract that commits us to taking at least 5 relatively expensive vacations there in the next 10 years, but thereafter we’re free to use our weeks, or not, with no other financial penalty.
> 
> DONT DO IT!!!!! I've been to Vidanta Riviera Maya at the Grand Mayan, it was one of the easiest exchanges I ever made. I also rented another 1bdr unit for $100 for an entire week through SFX during a quaterly special they run. Yes, $14 per day for a 1 bedroom suite. No timeshare presentation required.
> 
> I’m sharing this interpretation in hopes of having it vetted and evaluated by people who may have already been through the process themselves, and also to share with folks who might want to explore this option as an exit strategy that allows you to enjoy top notch properties in the near- to medium-term.



As as said above, with WorldMark you have one of the most desirable system timeshare already. You can only screw it up by changing into any other system. Getting rid of that contract will be EASY if you so choose. Contact timeshare angels www.timeshareangels.com and see how much you could get for your contract. But the best decision you could make is just to learn how to use your Worldmark points.


----------



## VacationForever

dominidude said:


> See my response below in red. Short version, your WM ownership has at least 2 exit strategies, selling it for cash (best, preferred method), or using Wyndham's ovation program (Dont do it, it's just giving it away for free back to Wyndham).
> 
> 
> 
> As as said above, with WorldMark you have one of the most desirable system timeshare already. You can only screw it up by changing into any other system. Getting rid of that contract will be EASY if you so choose. Contact timeshare angels www.timeshareangels.com and see how much you could get for your contract. But the best decision you could make is just to learn how to use your Worldmark points.



The issue is that OP still owes money on the WM timeshare.  Ovation will only take back fully paid up contracts.

You brought up a good point regarding WM being the best system.  I own at Marriott, Vistana and Worldmark and agree that if I only own one, it will be WM.  The best system in terms of value for money, flexibility, number of desirable locations and the most friendly system to owners with no nickeling and diming.


----------



## dominidude

Got ahead of myself, seems like OP bought WM credits from developer. Not all hope is lost. See my answers below in red again.




Go2Guy said:


> Wow, this is all sobering and disturbing advice, folks.
> Considering we bought the bulk of our Worldmark shares only two years ago and still owe $38,000 on the note, is there really no way to exit from this commitment and the associated MFs?
> You could potentially rent out your points and pay your MFs with that, you'd probably make more from renting than your MFs are worth. BUT, you wont be able to pay your loan off with what you might get from renting your points.
> It’s not like we’ve already received, used, and benefited from what we bought.  Worldmark already got our downpayment and MFs to date, and we are in good standing.  Shouldn’t there be an exit clause for these TMs?
> I think your question actually means: shouldnt there be an exit clause "without affecting my credit report" for these timeshares?
> NO, at least not to my knowledge. You got into a loan, and not paying the loan off will affect your credit. Once the loan is paid off, getting rid of your contract will be easy.
> Has this whole phenomenon never been tested in a class action lawsuit?
> 
> *Alternative 1*: The consensus seems to be that our WM shares are worthless, and that our only real exit is to cut our losses by selling on eBay for $1 and hope someone takes over the payments.  We lose all money paid thus far, having gotten in return only the few weeks of vacation we’ve already taken.
> 
> That wont happen, sorry
> 
> *Alternative 2*: Learn to use our WM credits better, i.e., vacationing with WM when we can, re-selling the desirable reservations we manage to make but don’t have time to use ourselves, and straight up selling excess credits we have accumulated.
> 
> Best solution. FYI, it's not called "selling excess credits" it's called renting points.
> 
> *Alternative 3*: Risk the Vidanta option.  Honestly, what Vida proposed sounds to us preferable to owning WM (because our loan amount remains almost the same, we stay at 5-star Vidanta every couple of years, we re-sell some Vidanta peak weeks on-line, and/or trade into Registry Collection or SFX.)  HOWEVER, some of you seem quite confident that Vidanta is essentially lying to us and that the reseller TRM (Timeshare Resale Market, formerly Equity Acquisitions) will not be able to sell our WM, will come back asking for lots more money, or leave us still owing for both the loan payments and the MFs.
> 
> DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT, DO NOT BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER
> _
> T-Dot wrote:  "Vida /Grupo Vidanta/ Mayan has a long history of doing "trade ins" and there is a (long) fall 2015 Tug thread that includes some info of positive outcomes --see<.Dr Guy a Grand Luxxe owner says his did -Nov 11 2015- post 22 Thread Purchased Grand Luxxe - started by Seema who also purchase GL with a trade in >"  _​
> Notwithstanding the horror stories from year’s past, I can’t help wondering if in recent years Vida and TRM business practices have improved and there is a positive outcome for more people?
> NO
> The way Vida explained to us, their recent partnership with Cirque du Soleil (one of the most recognized and well-regarded brands out there) forced Vida to resolve many former issues and avoid them in the future.
> 
> I have a call directly with TRM and they seem to think we are in contract (evidently they never received notice that I had rescinded?), so I’ll be interested to hear their pitch and explanation of what’s ahead.
> 
> I'm also curious what it is that makes you say, Bizaro, that we won't be happy anyway... :
> 
> It's simple, what you dont like is that you got into a loan to buy Worlmark points that you cannot use because of your personal situation and lifestyle. Now you are considering transferring the loan to Vidanta, which has timeshares in MEXICO, which more or less cements your inability to use your timeshares, unless you can get affordable plane tickets.



You have gotten great advice here, I hope you learn not to buy from the developer again, not with Vidanta, or any other devoper. Buy resale. And things could be worse, you could have bought Diamond points or a Westgate timeshare.


----------



## pianoetudes

Go2Guy said:


> One of our main motivations for considering Vidanta is that it appears to provide an Exit Strategy from the timeshare treadmill.



Be careful with the exit strategy.

If you buy Vidanta ts because of the exit strategy, don't buy.

The exit strategy is outsourced to third party and you pay processing fee UPFRONT. This is ridiculous. What is the incentive of the third party to complete the ts exit, if they pocket your money FIRST? You will also sign a letter stating Vidanta is not responsible with the outcome of this exit strategy.


----------



## Arusso

I believe this tread contains much wise advice.   Likewise, I considered an offer from Vidanta and after an adult beverage and a good night's sleep, I rescinded the deal.  What many of us have learned over the years in the interval ownership business, is, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.  The enticing pitch that Vidanta uses is that it would rid one of current ownership and apply it toward the purchase of one of their RTUs at one of their properties.  In the era of escalating MFs, this is very appealing.  At first glance, one can get rid of MFs and only pay for an interval of use when you use it.  However, this comes with an additional outlay of cash and, as the writer notes, the nightly per diem for use is not cheap.  Furthermore, if one consigns sale of one's wholly owned unit(s), there is an up front fee paid to a third party - this is the entity that presumably will dispose of one's unit(s).  Also, as noted, this takes time and there is no guarantee title will be transferred.  I calculated the fee to be something short of $2,000/wk owned.  I subsequently discovered that the tactics used by the "disposal" company are deedbacks or offering the unit(s) for sale on the usual venues we are all aware of.  For Vidanta, currently owned inventory has zero value.  Their only interest is to get someone to buy something at a price.  While their resorts premium, they are nevertheless restricted in location.  So again, one must rely on exchange companies to request other options.  To Vidanta's credit, they are very professional.  Of course,  it help that I lived in Mexico for a couple of years a few decades ago, speak fluent Spanish and understand their laws.  In this day and age of incredible travel bargains, interval ownership makes little sense anymore.  However, my personal opinion is that if someone is going to purchase something, I would not purchase anything from a developer anywhere, anytime.  And certainly not outside of US jurisdiction.


----------



## falcon

TUGBrian said:


> unfortunately alternative 1 isnt even an option for you if you still owe 38,000 on the loan.
> 
> even finding a willing taker, you simply cant transfer ownership until the loan balance is paid off.


----------



## falcon

It's not just Mexico. We own in Ontario and we exchanged to a different Ontario resort. They offered to "absorb" 2 of our timeshares IF we bought into Fractional Ownership (3 deeded weeks) which they tried to convince muse was different than our 2 deeded weeks that we own and have paid for because Real Estate agents will sell Fractional Ownership but not timeshare. The told us that they could rent out any time we didn't want to use and in 7 years, they'd sell it for us...happily. We signed but after doing some leg work, backed out. Real Estate Agents are NOT interested in pursuing this market. We almost made a costly mistake because we want to get out of our timeshare. They know exactly what to say...but do your due diligence. I'm afraid we'd be 7 years down the line, in the same boat...but much, much worse because we'd have debt.


----------



## pittle

bizaro86 said:


> That auction has 6 days left, that will sell for more than that (I guarantee it, because if it's still at that price I'll bid )



It sold for $6000 + closing costs.  If our guy sold his for that, he would still owe $32,000 + the cost of Grand Luxxe.  Not a good deal.


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## HudsHut

Go2Guy:

You have to get out from under this contract, but buying another timeshare from the developer is exactly the wrong thing to do. This would be a good time to contact a broker who can advise you what size loan will sell the easiest, pay off the remainder and get out from under. 

Quite frankly, you were sold too many points. You don't need more than 20,000. As you know, not every vacation desire can be reserved with WorldMark (or any timeshare). Use it when it makes sense, rent apartments when that makes sense. If you were to try WM again, it should only be a smaller contract at the resale cost.

For some locations and high-demand periods, you do need to be ready to reserve 13 months in advance at 6:00 PDT. However, you have until 30 days before check-in to cancel if you decide to travel elsewhere. There is no downside to making the 13 month reservation. If you didn't get the exact days you wanted, you call Vacation Planning and you set up a wait list. Because of the owner-friendly cancellation policy many reservations get cancelled. One owner may not have the 7 days you want, but 7 owners may each have a day you want. The reservation will come together.

WorldMark can trade into either Grand Luxxe pretty easily. Yes, we have to pay the annoying resort fee, but that is much less than the cost of buying from Vidanta.

You didn't have to spend 27k points on Thailand. You could have reserved the weeknights for the cheaper points, and stayed at your alternate place on the expensive nights. Or you could have traded into the Marriott Phuket.

I agree that for France, and most of Europe, renting an apartment is the way to go. You could have rented out a portion of your credits (e.g. 10K - 20k) to other owners for about 7 - 8 cents per credit to help cover that trip. 

What part of the country do you live in? Oceanside is very near San Diego. While not a fancy resort, it is walking distance to the beach. And it's one of the "cheap" properties where a 2br is only 10,000.

The coastal resorts in Oregon are fabulous. Have you stayed there? Does your family like Orlando? You could stay at Reunion or exchange into a Marriott or Sheraton and use Reunion for a few days at the beginning/end of the week to target lower airfare.

Good Luck, and let us know what you decide.


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## HudsHut

WMOwners.com is the forum where there are many expert WorldMark Owners.

You may place an ad to rent out your one-time-use Credits. See the other ads for format and current pricing. You may not rent out your expired credits or your "available to borrow" credits.
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67

Below you will find links to the WM Resale Brokers' websites here:
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=45426

Expired credits must be kept in a reservation so they are not deleted from your account. You may rent out the reservation.
If you wish to rent out a reservation you may place an ad on TUG's marketplace, or here:
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=69


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## r_metta

I am in a similar situation... just entered into "swap" contract with Vidanta early January. We were told TRM would sell our Villa Del Palmar biannual week within 3-6 months and now I have the same #1/#2 Option with TRM. We owe approx $7k on our Villa del Palmar Cancun timeshare and I do not know if the resale value would cover the loan amount. I have had a conversation with Spencer at TRM, he seems to think its worth 10-14k (I don't know if I agree) however, I need to get out from under this Villa timeshare in order to enjoy the Vidanta gig. Please advise...


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## T-Dot-Traveller

r_metta said:


> I am in a similar situation... just entered into "swap" contract with Vidanta early January. We were told TRM would sell our Villa Del Palmar biannual week within 3-6 months and now I have the same #1/#2 Option with TRM. We owe approx $7k on our Villa del Palmar Cancun timeshare and I do not know if the resale value would cover the loan amount. I have had a conversation with Spencer at TRM, he seems to think its worth 10-14k (I don't know if I agree) however, I need to get out from under this Villa timeshare in order to enjoy the Vidanta gig. Please advise...



You have a problem .


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## Eric B

I wouldn’t pay them upfront to do anything.  That’s a major hallmark of a fraud.  If he can sell it for that much, he can take his fee out of the proceeds.  Wouldn’t hold my breath, though.

I’ve posted a few times about the trade in agreements for timeshares there.  IIRC, these guys have an upcharge for a Mexican RTU one, too.  You’re probably better off just giving it away or stopping paying.


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## r_metta

Eric B said:


> I wouldn’t pay them upfront to do anything.  That’s a major hallmark of a fraud.  If he can sell it for that much, he can take his fee out of the proceeds.  Wouldn’t hold my breath, though.
> 
> I’ve posted a few times about the trade in agreements for timeshares there.  IIRC, these guys have an upcharge for a Mexican RTU one, too.  You’re probably better off just giving it away or stopping paying.



To stop paying would be pretty negative on my credit. There has to be a better alternative.


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## r_metta

Go2Guy said:


> Wow, this is all sobering and disturbing advice, folks.
> Considering we bought the bulk of our Worldmark shares only two years ago and still owe $38,000 on the note, is there really no way to exit from this commitment and the associated MFs?  It’s not like we’ve already received, used, and benefited from what we bought.  Worldmark already got our downpayment and MFs to date, and we are in good standing.  Shouldn’t there be an exit clause for these TMs?  Has this whole phenomenon never been tested in a class action lawsuit?
> 
> *Alternative 1*: The consensus seems to be that our WM shares are worthless, and that our only real exit is to cut our losses by selling on eBay for $1 and hope someone takes over the payments.  We lose all money paid thus far, having gotten in return only the few weeks of vacation we’ve already taken.
> *Alternative 2*: Learn to use our WM credits better, i.e., vacationing with WM when we can, re-selling the desirable reservations we manage to make but don’t have time to use ourselves, and straight up selling excess credits we have accumulated.
> *Alternative 3*: Risk the Vidanta option.  Honestly, what Vida proposed sounds to us preferable to owning WM (because our loan amount remains almost the same, we stay at 5-star Vidanta every couple of years, we re-sell some Vidanta peak weeks on-line, and/or trade into Registry Collection or SFX.)  HOWEVER, some of you seem quite confident that Vidanta is essentially lying to us and that the reseller TRM (Timeshare Resale Market, formerly Equity Acquisitions) will not be able to sell our WM, will come back asking for lots more money, or leave us still owing for both the loan payments and the MFs.
> _
> T-Dot wrote:  "Vida /Grupo Vidanta/ Mayan has a long history of doing "trade ins" and there is a (long) fall 2015 Tug thread that includes some info of positive outcomes --see<.Dr Guy a Grand Luxxe owner says his did -Nov 11 2015- post 22 Thread Purchased Grand Luxxe - started by Seema who also purchase GL with a trade in >"  _​
> Notwithstanding the horror stories from year’s past, I can’t help wondering if in recent years Vida and TRM business practices have improved and there is a positive outcome for more people?  The way Vida explained to us, their recent partnership with Cirque du Soleil (one of the most recognized and well-regarded brands out there) forced Vida to resolve many former issues and avoid them in the future.
> 
> I have a call directly with TRM and they seem to think we are in contract (evidently they never received notice that I had rescinded?), so I’ll be interested to hear their pitch and explanation of what’s ahead.
> 
> I'm also curious what it is that makes you say, Bizaro, that we won't be happy anyway... :



Go2Guy - what did you end up doing?? Were you able to get out of our Windham or just kept it and paid the loan? Did you renegotiate your contract with Vidanta?


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## rpennisi

r_metta,
Go2Guy hasn't written on this thread since August, 2017. You might be better off trying a PM to find out what he did.


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## Moxie847

I am new to this website and having trouble finding information.  I am a Grand Mayan owner and recently attended a presentation where I agreed to upgrade to a one bedroom and part of the payment was trading in my timeshare with Sheraton Bouganvilias.  I was told there would be a transfer fee of about $1800.  I was prepared to pay the fee to get rid of the Sheraton timeshare as the maintenance fee must be paid regardless of whether I use the week or not.  

I was contacted by Janice at Timeshare Resale Marketing and she is offering me a second option which seems fishy making me question the whole deal now.  She says if I pay about $4,800 up front, I get to keep my Sheraton unit and will have assistance in selling it, so I keep the equity.

Vedanta gave me credit in the amount of $14,900 for me to use Sheraton as a trade in (like trading in an old car for buying a new one).  So then how can I now sell the unit and keep the difference between what the Sheraton sells for and the $4800 fee???

If I pay the $1800, will I really end my liability and ownership of the Sheraton unit?

Thanks for any advice.


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## LannyPC

Don't fall for either of these ploys.  We hear of these scams or bad deals all the time.  With the trade-in one, what they usually get you to do is buy an overpriced one and then they tell you that they don't want your current one so you end up owning two.

As for Timeshare Resale Marketing, that would be a scam because they are asking for $4800 upfront.


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## T-Dot-Traveller

Moxie847 said:


> I am new to this website and having trouble finding information.  I am a Grand Mayan owner and recently attended a presentation where I agreed to upgrade to a one bedroom and part of the payment was trading in my timeshare with Sheraton Bouganvilias.  I was told there would be a transfer fee of about $1800.  I was prepared to pay the fee to get rid of the Sheraton timeshare as .....
> 
> If I pay the $1800, will I really end my liability and ownership of the Sheraton unit?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.



Probably -
 basically you are paying $ 1800 so that Timeshare Resale Marketing can put it on ebay and sell it 
for $1 or so .It will likely sell - since  Sheraton Buganvilas PV is a decent / good location TS in PV .

HOWEVER .
1) Vidanta would give you the same price for your upgrade without the trade in . The trade in was simply a way to convince you to buy . More than one TUG post confirms this . 

2) You could probable get rid of it for less than $1800 using TUG bargain sub forum or TUG Marketplace 

3) If you decide to dispose of the Sheraton B. yourself - contact Vidanta Member Service and they will
confirm cancellation of the agreement with TRM . They can also confirm by email the  net price for the upgrade remains what you paid . Assuming you are past day 5 , the purchase contract upgrade to a one bedroom is legally valid . The general detail of this are also confirmed in more than one prior TUG post .


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Moxie847 said:


> Vedanta gave me credit in the amount of $14,900 for me to use Sheraton as a trade in (like trading in an old car for buying a new one).  So then how can I now sell the unit and keep the difference between what the Sheraton sells for and the $4800 fee???


Those are just numbers on a piece of paper.  Follow the money.  When deals have moving pieces and start to get confusing, the only way to really understand what's going on is to follow the money.  Always follow the path of the money, not the path of the words.

Let's say Vidanta wrote this up with a selling price of $54,900 with $14,900 "trade-in" for your Bouganvillas, for a "net sales price" of $40,000.  They then passed you off to Timeshare Resale Marketing for supposed disposal of the Bouganvillas ownership.

Now follow the money.  


Vidanta:
When Vidanta passed you off to Timeshare Resale Marketing they dropped out of the picture.  Vidanta gets the $40,000 from you, and that is their end of the transaction.  What happens between you and Timeshare Resale Marketing does not affect them in the least.  So they have no concern as to whether you keep any of the "equity" from your sale.  

Vidanta: +$40,000
You: -$40,000​
Timeshare Resale Marketing
TRM is a bit trickier because we don't know if that $1800 initial price was actually a legitimate transfer of ownership or just an agreement to sell the timeshare for you.  Meaning that if they can't sell it, you would still own it.  

Let's look at their two options. I'm also going to assume that you are current on your maintenance fees; otherwise you may have to pay those before you can transfer to TRM.  And if TRM is willing to "take ownership" with fees not current, it's almost certain they aren't really taking ownership. 

TRM Option 1: Let's be generous and assume it's a legitimate transfer of ownership, and they are willing to take on ownership because they know they can sell it for some nominal sum - say $200 after expenses (and that's probably close to what it will sell for - maybe less than that).

TRM: +$2,000
You: -$1800​TRM Option 2: Now they are offering to not take over ownership, do marketing perhaps, and collect $4800 for the privilege of letting you keep a timeshare that is worth about $200. Let's be generous and assume they spend $100 marketing the timeshare, probably at a price that isn't going to attract any offers.  

TRM: +$4,700
You: -$4600 (assuming you get the $200 from selling the Bouganvillas)​Does this help sort things out?  Vidanta doesn't care one whit what happens with your Bouganvillas.  Doesn't affect them at all.  Vidanta's sales price, in my example was $40,000.  They marked it up to $54,900 so they could give you a "trade-in value" that made you feel like you were getting some value out of your existing ownership.

TRM is making you that second offer, expecting you to think the Bouganvillas will sell for something near Vidanta's purported trade-in value, so you'll come out money ahead.  As you can see, that second offer is much more lucrative for them.  
​


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## taffy19

Moxie847 said:


> I am new to this website and having trouble finding information.  I am a Grand Mayan owner and recently attended a presentation where I agreed to upgrade to a one bedroom and part of the payment was trading in my timeshare with Sheraton Bouganvilias.  I was told there would be a transfer fee of about $1800.  I was prepared to pay the fee to get rid of the Sheraton timeshare as the maintenance fee must be paid regardless of whether I use the week or not.
> 
> I was contacted by Janice at Timeshare Resale Marketing and she is offering me a second option which seems fishy making me question the whole deal now.  She says if I pay about $4,800 up front, I get to keep my Sheraton unit and will have assistance in selling it, so I keep the equity.
> 
> Vedanta gave me credit in the amount of $14,900 for me to use Sheraton as a trade in (like trading in an old car for buying a new one).  So then how can I now sell the unit and keep the difference between what the Sheraton sells for and the $4800 fee???
> 
> If I pay the $1800, will I really end my liability and ownership of the Sheraton unit?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


Moxie847, please listen to the advice you received from LannyPC, T-Dot-Traveller and T_R_Oglodyte.  Try to sell your Buganvilias yourself here on TUG or on eBay.  Your transfer fees will be a lot less and can be done by contacting member services at the resort once you have found a buyer.  The staff is very helpful there.

We were staying at the Buganvilias Club last week and owners still sell their contracts to other owners or guests right around the pool area because people sit and often talk to each other.  Many come year after year so get to know each other.  The contracts do not sell for much but you don't have to spend an outrageous amount for the transfer fee or the upfront fee of $4,800 and keep your equity because there is no equity.  Sad but true.

Do you still have time to rescind your upgrade at the Grand Mayan or negotiate for a better deal like T-Dot-Traveller recommended?

What exactly do you own at the Sheraton Buganvilias?  In what tower are you?  How many years are left on your contract and is it a floating or fixed week/unit?  All this information has to be mentioned in your ad when you post it here on Tug or on eBay too.


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## Eric B

Think back to the confirmation phone call you had with the corporate sales folks from member services when you bought with Vidanta.  They didn’t ask you about trading in a TS.  The actual contract you have doesn’t mention it either.  And no one from TRM signed the agreement, did they?  You have no obligation to pay TRM anything and Vidanta will be happy to cancel that “agreement” if you contact member services.  Been there, done that.  You can give away the Buganvilias contract on TUG if you no longer want it; there is just a $250 transfer fee with Buganvilias to do so.


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## Moxie847

Thank you all very much!  I love this website.  Just joined yesterday and I feel like I am now in the driver’s seat of this situation.  Appreciate the information and advice.  I will now stop the bleeding and start being a smart timeshare user!


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