# "My Jack Russell was Mauled by a Pit Bull"



## cheter (Jun 2, 2007)

While on vacation in Breckenridge, on Memorial Day, I received an emergency phone call from my neighbor.  A Pit Bull which lives about 4 houses down from us attacked my J.Russell.  My neighbor was hysterical.  They could not make out it was my dog, because it was being shaken so violently.  When they realized it was my J.R.-"Jordan".  Cathy started screaming to her husband, Ron.  Ron jumped his fence & kicked the Pit several times in the head, as the Pit was dragging him down the road.  (This occured on a dirt road behind my house, my J.R. dug out under our privacy fence).  The owner of the Pit came down the road an expressed that the dog was hers.  Cathy took Jordan to the emergency vet, he had gashes all over his neck & front legs, they feared one of his legs was broken.  I called the owner of the Pit that evening, & told her the vet needed information on the owner & the dog, to please go to Cathy's house.  The Vet bill right now stands around $800, but he has to have fluid drained from one of his ears, & stiches taken out, which will probably be another $200.  He finds it difficult to stand on his bad leg.
Today when we returned from our vacation we went to the P.B. owner's house.  I showed her the bill, she said she couldn't afford to pay the bill , but would pay half.  Only because her dog didn't attack our dog on our property.  She is now saying "no one" saw the attack!  I informed her Cathy & Ron saw the whole thing.  I expressed to her what if the dog would have turned on Ron, or a child.  She said her dogs are "gentle" and wouldn't hurt anything.  I told her it nearly killed my dog, & it would have if Ron didn't break up the fight!  She says I just am reacting this way, because it's a P.B.  I told her I would react this way if it was any dog!  It also bothers me, because she never bothered to see how Jordan was.  Our neighbors Cathy and Ron who were taking care of our pets while we were gone, are furious on what she had to say to me.  I'm going to talk to my Vet about any recourse, my son wants to have her P.B. put down, she has 4 or 5.  Jordan is my son's dog, and it turned our vacation up side down!


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## Jestjoan (Jun 2, 2007)

So sorry to hear that news. It's terrible that it happened and even more terrible that your neighbor is denying it all.

Small claims court might be an idea..........


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## falmouth3 (Jun 2, 2007)

That's awful!  Her home owners insurance may pay - if she has it.  I'm hoping someone here will be able to give you some guidance on how to proceed.

Sue


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## DeniseM (Jun 2, 2007)

Can you call the police?  Do you have a leash law in your area?


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## cheter (Jun 2, 2007)

My neighbor, Cathy, called Animal Control, after the trip to the Vet.  They said there is nothing they can do, since it wasn't a "person".  My neighbor got MAD saying, "so you all want to wait until it's a child"!  The only thing against a law suit, which I don't want it to go that far, is that the attack happened off my property.  Yes, only about 5 feet, but still off my property.
If it was my dog that had done the attack, I would have been so remorseful, and would have offered to pay ALL medical bills.  This lady isn't a stupid person, I'm sure she knows her rights.  In fact when my son and I walked over to her house, all her P.B.'s were barking at her chain link fence.  She made a point to excuse herself, to put them more to the back of her house where we couldn't see them.


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## shagnut (Jun 2, 2007)

Cheryl, oh how horrible!! It just made me sick to my stomach, I am so sorry. You could always get the tv station involved. People who are not responsible pet owners should not have pets!!! shaggy


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## Icarus (Jun 3, 2007)

Take them to small claims court. It's very easy.

On the other hand, having them pay half, if they are willing to without going to court, might not be a bad result in this case, since your dog also got out of your yard.

-David


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## ouaifer (Jun 3, 2007)

cheter said:


> My neighbor, Cathy, called Animal Control, after the trip to the Vet.  They said there is nothing they can do, since it wasn't a "person".  ........




I think something is amiss.  They are responsible (chapter and verse) for injury to another domestic animal!  _Google_ _dog bites florida_, there's a wealth of information.


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## riverdees05 (Jun 3, 2007)

Hate those Pit Bulls!


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## Nancy (Jun 3, 2007)

*Judge Judy*

Go on Judge Judy.  She's a dog lover, but doesn't like Pit Bulls or irresponsible pet owners.


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

shagnut said:


> Cheryl, oh how horrible!! It just made me sick to my stomach, I am so sorry. You could always get the tv station involved. People who are not responsible pet owners should not have pets!!! shaggy


That, of course, is all a matter of opinion.  I doubt the owner planned for her dog to do what it did.  Her PB should not have been loose as the JR should not have been loose.  Should she pay the damages, sure, just like people who take their dog(s) to Motel 6 and allow them to whiz all over the beds should pay for clean-up/damages, too.


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## Kay H (Jun 3, 2007)

Spence,
Do you have a problem letting issues go?  The topic was not about dogs in motels.  I think we all know how you feel about that!


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## Kay H (Jun 3, 2007)

Cheryl, I'm so sorry.  Hope your JR will be ok.


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## cindi (Jun 3, 2007)

I think you should take her offer to pay 50% and be done with it. 

You are jumping to a conclusion that can't be verified. You are assuming that the pitbull is the one who provoked the attack. I gotta tell you, terriers are feisty little guys too and they are perfectly capable of coping an attitude as well. 

I say this because of two reasons. One is that people automatically jump on the hate pitbull bandwagon. Yes, there have been bad incidents with them, but there have been an awful lot of horrible things with other breeds of dogs as well. They can be absolutely wonderful dogs and they constantly get a bad rap. Now I am saying this without knowing one thing about your neighbors dogs, so you obviously may know more than the rest of us about their temperment. 

Second, I have a very large mixed breed dog who is the most mellow guy in the world. Guess who causes every bit of problem and ruckus in our house? The dog who is about half his size. The little guys pushes and pushes and runs him away from everything until he finally stucks up for himself, which he has only done 3 times in all these years. 

Unless you see the beginning, you really have no way of knowing what happened. Heck, I have seen a little dog go by a big dog and just give them that "look" and that immediately sets off a battle. 

I hope your poor dog is healing ok and I feel very badly for you. It is a horrible thing to happen.


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## cheter (Jun 3, 2007)

Cindi, I agree with you 100% about terriers.  My J.R. is a little pistol.  I am upset the owner of the P.B., never bothered to see how our dog was.  If our neighbors had not been there it would have KILLED our J.R.  Our neighbors believe they should pay 100% of the bill, I agree, I know I would.


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## cheter (Jun 3, 2007)

*Thank You*

Thank you for your concern.  Jordan, is not his old self.  He shakes alot, and is in alot of pain.  His right leg has 3 places where it was ripped open.  His neck also has 3 places with stiches.  His right ear is stitched up, also his mouth.  The stitches on his leg & neck are probably 2 inches in lenght.  It's hard for him to "relieve" him self since he can not put any weight on his right leg.  I know he will be fine, he may not be able to use his right leg, like he used to.  I am just thankful our neighbors were home at the time of the attack, or he may not be with us today!   Thank you again for your concern.


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## derb (Jun 3, 2007)

A greater tragedy may lie ahead-that pit bull tasted victory, I am afraid your neighbors may not have heard the last of him.


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## cindi (Jun 3, 2007)

cheter said:


> Cindi, I agree with you 100% about terriers.  My J.R. is a little pistol.  I am upset the owner of the P.B., never bothered to see how our dog was.  If our neighbors had not been there it would have KILLED our J.R.  Our neighbors believe they should pay 100% of the bill, I agree, I know I would.



I absolutely would pay the entire bill also, if it had been my dog that caused the injury, irregardless of who started it or the situatuation involved. 

Having said that, I strongly suspect you aren't going to get more than half out of those people, and just didn't think it was worth the stress or costs involved to pursue it further.

Maybe they are afraid if they offer to pay the full amount it will show them to feel they are totallly at fault. Who knows with people. 

I feel so badly for you and JR. It is so hard to see our little furry kids in pain and injured like that. I hope he has a full recover. I also hope the vet gave him some good pain medicine. If not, I would call them back and demand something for him.


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## mamiecarter (Jun 3, 2007)

*Doggy disputes can be lethal!*

My little Maltese/Pom mix runs agresivly at large dogs if I don't keep him on a short leash. So far he has tried to attack a pit bull, a chow and a rotwieller. They all just looked at him. My neighbors Jack Russell he never got near because the dog was a natural born killer and his owner and I were both very carefull.

Most pit bulls are very nice dogs. What sets off a dog fight is often obscure to people and I can not see holding dogs responsible for being dogs. It is the dog owner who causes the problems. Letting a large breed dog run loose is madness.
Hope you JR recovers. You may have to chain him inside his fence to keep him safe.


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## Andar (Jun 3, 2007)

*I am so sorry!*

Oh my gosh,  I am so sorry and hope he makes a quick recovery.  Many people don't realize that our dogs are our family.   It breaks my heart that he was injured.    I just read you post after returning home from spreading the ashes of my beloved service dog.  I started cying all over again.   I tell you that so you know I understand the bond.  Having said that,  I would try and work it out with the neighbor.  Can she make payments for the other 50%?  If she is not willing to budge,  I would let it go and be so thankful that he will recovered.  The anger , frustration and ill will among neighbors is not worth it.  Now if it would really put a financial burden on you, you could take it to small claims court.  But sometimes money doesn't mend the hurt, anger, or the principle of who should have been responsible.    Good luck and I hope he makes a full recovery.


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## Passepartout (Jun 3, 2007)

*File claim against her insurance!*

My attorney wife says to file claim against her homeowners insurance for the whole amount. Don't settle for half, 'because your dog got out of it's yard', the pit bull wasn't under control of it's owner. It would've been an entirely different matter had your JR gotten into the pit bull's yard, but it was attacked on neutral ground.

Best wishes for your dog's speedy recovery, and we hope you can recover damages. 

Jim Ricks


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## cheter (Jun 3, 2007)

*Thank You Everyone, Jim:*

I will call my insurance company tomorrow:Met Life.  The problem is finding out who she is covered with, she won't budge with any information.  Someone from Animal Control, is to call me, & or maybe come by tonight.  I live out of the City Limits, very rural.  We have a little store, "The Hitching Post", down the road from us.  I told the lady working there all about it, (she knows everyone in the area).  She is the one who is going to talk to the lady in Animal Control.  Yes, I am so grateful my little "Jordie" is alive, but angers me to no end the owner of the other dog is just ignoring the attack, like it never happened!


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## timeos2 (Jun 3, 2007)

*May not be worth the risk to get 20-30% more*

It's horrible but it would appear your dog (you) share in the blame. Maybe not 50% but certainly some as both dogs were off their property (assuming there is a leash law and they are required to be properly restrained). 

Hopefully your pup will recover fully and the other owner will realize they have a ticking time bomb on their hands (unfortunately they don't seem bright enough to comprehend the issue).  Even if you took them to court chances are you'll be on the hook for at least some of the cost. I'd be tempted to take the 50% but also get them to sign something that says they acknowledge that they are now aware of the potential problem with their dog. That way if anything occurs in the future they can't claim ignorance. 

I do hope your guy is on the mend and has a long, happy life with your family.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jun 3, 2007)

jtricks said:


> My attorney wife says to file claim against her homeowners insurance for the whole amount. Don't settle for half, 'because your dog got out of it's yard', the pit bull wasn't under control of it's owner. It would've been an entirely different matter had your JR gotten into the pit bull's yard, but it was attacked on neutral ground.
> 
> Best wishes for your dog's speedy recovery, and we hope you can recover damages.
> 
> Jim Ricks



I'm pretty sure the OP can't sue the pit bul owner's insurance company, unless  the OP happened to be named as an additional insured on that policy. 

What she can do is sue the pit bull owner, who presumably would then ask their insurance company to handle the claim.

But I'm pretty sure the OP has no recourse directly to the pit bull owner's insurer.


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## Mel (Jun 3, 2007)

I would at least file apolice report, if nothing else.

Not knowing all the details, it's hard to say if the PB owner would be held liable.  Given that it was another dog, some places don't give the attack as much weight as an attack on a person.  However, if you've filed a police report, and that dog later attacks a person, your report will help show a history of aggressive behavior.  It won't prevent any future attacks, but should at least result in a more appropriate consequence should something happen later.

While I would probably accept the 50%, it does sound a bit like "hush money."  There are costs associated with small claims court, but they are likely to be held more responsible.  Depending on the laws in your area, they might be held completely responsible or partially.  If you are going this route, make sure to take pictures of the area where your dog escaped, to show that you make the appropriate attempt to protect your dog.  If the attack occurred that close to your property, the presence of the PB may have given your dog the incentive to dig himself out.  If you find the PB wandering near your property again, particularly near the spot where your dog dug out, I would file a complaint.  Unfortunately once a dog tastes blood, it is more likely to attack again.  This dog needs to be watched carefully (as does any dogs that has attacked, no matter the breed).


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

The owner has five of them?  Does your neighbor know which one it was?  I'd not accept 50%,  I'd push for full payment of damages, which to me means reimbursement for Vet fees.


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## shagnut (Jun 3, 2007)

Spence said:


> That, of course, is all a matter of opinion.  I doubt the owner planned for her dog to do what it did.  Her PB should not have been loose as the JR should not have been loose.  Should she pay the damages, sure, just like people who take their dog(s) to Motel 6 and allow them to whiz all over the beds should pay for clean-up/damages, too.




Spence I warned you to drop it.  Why do you have to be this way?  BTW, I took Mater & Monkey back to the same Motel 6 and they both behaved beautifully. Mater has gotten older and wiser which you are definitly not!!


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## Rose Pink (Jun 3, 2007)

cheter said:


> ..... Yes, I am so grateful my little "Jordie" is alive, but angers me to no end the owner of the other dog is just ignoring the attack, like it never happened!


 
It appears, to me, that you are more upset by your neighbor's lack of compassion or caring than you are about the cost of the vet bill.  You want someone to understand your pain more than you want monetary restitution.  Am I correct in my assumption?

When I was younger I was very, very shy.  I was so shy that I found it difficult at times to speak.  If someone I didn't know well said "hello" I sometimes could not say "hello" back.  I simply froze.  Some people took my lack of response as indifference or as being conceited and "stuck up."
It was not of those things.  I was simply too frightened to speak.  Most people who only know me during my adult years think that I am an outgoing person not realizing how rehearsed and practiced my responses are.  Sometimes I still have a difficult time reaching out.

I bring up that painful (and no longer private) part of my personna to suggest that your neighbor may not be ignoring you or the attack or that she doesn't care about your dear Jordie.  She may simply be clamming up out of fear or defensiveness. She may be frightened of you, your neighbors and your intents.  We never know just what is going on inside another person's head or heart.  I think Andar gave some very good advice.  Is it really worth all the pain and anguish to hold onto your anger?  To get restitution?  Some things will never be "set right" according to how we view the situation we are in--but we would do well to realize that we never know all of the facts and nuances of the event or the individuals involved.  I've learned that when I spend my energy on trying to exact justice (as I see it) I am not happy.  When I, instead, let it go and spend my energy on healing, I do much better.  Sometimes I think that if only I could have "justice" I could heal faster but I know it doesn't really work that way.  The hurt still remains.  My forgiveness can not be dependent on the other person's apology.  And sometimes when I forgive, the other person is more likely to feel safe enough to then give the apology.

I realize that you are hurt and frightened for the safety of your dear dog.  I beg you not to let that pain turn into bitterness.  It won't help you, your dear neighbors or the PB neighbor.  It certainly won't help Jordie.  I think this is one case in which we can learn from the loving, forgiving nature of the dogs who are so happy to see us each time we walk in the door; who forgive us of our shortcomings; who love us no matter what.

I also agree with those who suggested a police report.  Not for the sake of punishing the owner of the dog but for the sake of having a report (basis) in case this dog attacks again.  Try to do it without animosity.  You'll feel better in the long run.  Best wishes to you for a peaceful outcome.


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## Spence (Jun 3, 2007)

shagnut said:


> Spence I warned you to drop it.  Why do you have to be this way?  BTW, I took Mater & Monkey back to the same Motel 6 and they both behaved beautifully. Mater has gotten older and wiser which you are definitly not!!


Thank goodness you weren't banned from Motel 6 like you were afraid you'd be.  Sorry you take my analogy so personally.


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## Wonka (Jun 3, 2007)

falmouth3 said:


> That's awful!  Her home owners insurance may pay - if she has it.  I'm hoping someone here will be able to give you some guidance on how to proceed.
> 
> Sue



Maybe.  Many insurer's in Florida, however, exclude Pit Bulls and some others.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 4, 2007)

I hope that Jordie has a full recovery.  I know how scarey and angry one can get when a much loved pet becomes injured (or worse) due to the actions of a negligent pet owner.

I would only ask that you (and others) not jump to the conclusion that all pit bulls are bad.


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## cheter (Jun 4, 2007)

*Rose Pink & Other Tuggers:*

Your reply was very warm & true, as others have been.  But the owner of the Pit is not a SHY person.  She would be the first one on our street to put up a stink about something.  Yes, I believe if she had shown some remorse or emotion in this ordeal I would drop the whole thing, & settle on half payment.  But, she now denies no-one saw the attack!   My neighbor is more upset than myself, (the one that took Jordan to the Vet).  She has 3 children, one who is in elementary school who gets off the school bus alone.  The bus stop is 2 houses down from where the P.B. lives.  Since she saw the attack, she is very worried for her little girl, as I would be if I had any little ones.  Her husband said he has seen that dog loose more than once.  I myself will make it known to other neighbors with small children.
My neighbor Cathy is on a roll, she plans to attend the next City Commissioner Meeting.  Her sister is the editor of our local newspaper, & she already told her about the incident.  This is because Animal Control, will not do anything, not even make a report, because it wasn't a person.  This is St. Cloud-Osceola County, the Vet was in Orlando-Orange County.  Orange County insists on a report, Osceola does not-small town vs big town.  I will keep everyone updated.


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## KristinB (Jun 4, 2007)

Cheryl,

I'm so sorry about your Jordie.  Your story brought back some awful memories for me, as something similar happened to us 15 years ago.  We ended up receiving compensation from the dog owner's home insurance company, as you'll read below.

I was at work when I received a call from my county police dispatcher, saying that they thought my dogs were injured and that they needed to get into my house.  I was confused, so the dispatcher explained.  My neighbor's dog (whose house backed up to ours -- we shared a common fence) had literally ripped the chain link fence from the ground and he had entered my yard.  He had killed one of my three dogs, and my other two, while injured, had managed to get into the house through the dog door into my utility room.  I called my husband immediately and he headed home.

I then asked the dispatcher if they could tell me the color of the dead dog.  It turned out to be Tiffany, a sweet, five year old cocker spaniel we had rescued four months earlier.  I was devastated. I headed home and met my husband at the vet.  My other cocker, Charlie, had superficial neck bites and was mostly okay.  But my three year old bichon frise, Alex, was in very bad shape, with many neck wounds and completely severed muscles in his rear legs.  There was one neck wound that the vet told us was one centimeter from reaching a major artery, which would have killed him instantly.  The vet (who has now been our vet for 18 years), later told us that she went home and cried, as she had never seen a little dog that had been as severely injured as Alex survive.  But he was a fighter and did in fact recover, although we almost lost him to infection after we thought he was on his way back.  

(He also survived cancer 10 years later -- and our vet said that he was a miracle dog twice, because even though we treated him with surgery and chemo, she told us that normally with dogs and cancer, you're just looking at buying time.  But we did chest x-rays for three years afterward with no sign of metastases.   He ended up living to the ripe old age of 17.)

I ended up getting the rest of the story from my husband.  It was our other neighbor who was the reason Alex and Charlie survived.  She was on her back deck overlooking my yard, and saw the whole thing happen.  She called the police and screamed at the dog, which got his attention long enough so that Alex and Charlie could get into the house, where they hid behind the furnace in the utility room.

Around the time my husband got home, the owner of the dog had been alerted and had driven over to our house, and he offered to drive my husband to the vet in his van.  He worked nights and had been asleep when everything happened.  His wife did day care in the home, but was out at the park with the kids at the time (thank goodness).  They felt very badly about everything that happened and told my husband that they would submit the claim to their home insurance, and that they would pay the vet bills if the insurance didn't cover it.

The police came close to shooting the dog on the spot, but then animal control arrived and took it into custody.  They actually would have released the dog to the owners, for the same reason that you were told -- dogs attacking other dogs doesn't count.  But the owners wisely made the decision that the dog should be put down.  He was a two year old pit/lab mix, although the owners weren't aware of the fact that he had pit in him until he was older.  They were told it was a lab/shepard mix.  He had always been protective of their kids, but they never saw any signs of extreme aggression, until the day that he snapped.

So we ended up getting a call from the insurance company, who told us that we could, in addition to requesting payment for the vet bills (which came to $3500 -- and this was in 1992!), we could also request replacement costs for the ruined clothing my husband was wearing when he took the dogs to the vet, and replacement cost for a cocker spaniel puppy.  At least the adjuster had enough sensitivity to apologize in advance of saying it.

So we made all the appropriate requests.  It took around two weeks before we got the news that they were going to cover all the requested costs.  So at least financially, we were okay.  But not so, emotionally.  We had a terrible December and Christmas that year (the attack happened on Pearl Harbor Day).  So I know what you're likely feeling right now...


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## derb (Jun 4, 2007)

jtricks said:


> My attorney wife says to file claim against her homeowners insurance for the whole amount. Don't settle for half, 'because your dog got out of it's yard', the pit bull wasn't under control of it's owner. It would've been an entirely different matter had your JR gotten into the pit bull's yard, but it was attacked on neutral ground.
> 
> Best wishes for your dog's speedy recovery, and we hope you can recover damages.
> 
> Jim Ricks



What happens when an insurance company finds out you have an aggressive Pit bull?


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 4, 2007)

derb said:


> What happens when an insurance company finds out you have an aggressive Pit bull?



Most homeowners' insurance policies have a question about dog ownership in general . . . and many will not insure if it is known that someone has a breed that has been labeled as violent or hostile.  Typically that includes rotties, pit bulls, dobermans and shepards.

Because many animals are mix breeds it is really hard to know what they are and unless they are AKC registered as purebreeds, they do fall in the cracks of insurance policies.

If they find out you have acquired one, they may cancel your policy.  If they find out you lied on the insurance application, they will probably cancel and not pay out due to fraud in the application process.


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## nordicdiva (Jun 4, 2007)

As a police dispatcher - I'll contribute my two cents.  Dog incidents are tedious, continual neighborhood problems.

Sorry to hear about this awful event.  There's nothing more tragic than a beloved pet being injured/killed while owners are away on vacation. However, your dog was off your own property.  RED FLAG.  Will homeowners insurance even cover this if it's not on your own property? Doubt it. So why even bring it to their attention?  You run the risk of speculation on their part.

Take the 50% payment and be done with it.


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## nordicdiva (Jun 4, 2007)

jtricks said:


> My attorney wife says to file claim against her homeowners insurance for the whole amount. Don't settle for half, 'because your dog got out of it's yard', the pit bull wasn't under control of it's owner. It would've been an entirely different matter had your JR gotten into the pit bull's yard, but it was attacked on neutral ground.
> 
> Best wishes for your dog's speedy recovery, and we hope you can recover damages.
> 
> Jim Ricks


Huh?  No such thing as neutral ground in dog-owners-world.  A dog owner MUST keep it's dog on it's own property via leash, kennel and/or verbal command at all times.

EDIT:  The jack russell terrior was not under owner control either.


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## mamiecarter (Jun 4, 2007)

*Maybe animal control can help you*

Maybe AC can at least warn the owners of the pit bull to keep in on leash or behind an adequate fence. AC should be able to see that the animal might be a danger to humans as well, especially children.


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## Jeni (Jun 4, 2007)

Wonka said:


> Maybe.  Many insurer's in Florida, however, exclude Pit Bulls and some others.



Good point- I was thinking along this line as well.  I would want to know my neighbor's home insurance carrier, and I would call and ask if the insurance company if they are aware they are insuring a home with a pit bull that just went on the attack.  With the high cost of coverage with certain breeds, some homeowners conveniently "forget" to disclose their dog(s) in the policy.  I'm concluding if your neighbor's insurer is not aware of the dog, she is going to pay more in her policy, or she is going to be dropped and shopping around.  Either way, it's a pain for her, assuming the dog is not disclosed.


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## cheter (Jun 5, 2007)

*Called Sherrif's Dept. to Give Report*

Yesterday, when I got home from work, I called the Sheriff's Dept, to give them a report on what happened.  When the officer arrived I called my neighbor Cathy, to come over, since she wittnessed the incident.
Once again, there was nothing he could do.  He could not arrest an animal.  He was very interested and concerned with our feelings, about an aggressive dog in the neighborhood.  He explained Animal Control will only come out "at the fact", meaning the attack would have to be in sight.  By that time, Jordan would have been dead!  He understood, but that's the county's ways.  Don't you LOVE small towns!  He gave me a Case# to go to the Court House to file a claim (small claims court), against the owner.  He believes I will get total reimbursment.  This is the only way the dog will be listed as an aggressive dog.  That is my main concern.  I believe our neighbors need to be aware of the attack, there are many small children where I live.  Yes, the money is important, I don't have an extra $1000.  But, the issue is the dog bruttaly attacked an animal, and it is not getting written up.
My next day off, I will do my best, by making a trip to Home Depot.  I will load up on bricks to make sure Jordan can't dig out.
I also believe this is what may have happened.  The P.B. is a "fixed" female, Jordan a "fixed" male, but still likes the girls.  I believe he knew the dog was on the other side of the fence, and wanted to check her out.  Jordan got a little to interested in the P.B., and then the attack took place.
I look forward to reading your comments, keep them coming!
By the way, Jordan seems to be healing well.  He has some swelling around one of his stitches under his neck, he "shakes" alot, and is hard to pick him up, due to all the laserations.
KristinB:  that was a heartbreaking, horrible story.  My heart goes out to you, & everyone else, with similar stories as mine.


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## KristinB (Jun 5, 2007)

Cheryl,

I'm sure the vet told you to keep an eye on the sutures, but especially watch the swelling.  If it gets warm or too swollen, it's probably an infection.   While my Charlie's wounds were fairly minor compared to Alex's, both developed infections after about a week, and Charlie had to have drains put in his neck -- he looked like he had a small inner tube inflated around his neck.  But they both healed pretty quickly, as I'm sure your Jordan will as well.

Thanks for the kind words.  I don't think about what happened all that often, but it was pretty traumatic at the time, so whenever I hear similar stories, it brings it all back.


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## cindi (Jun 5, 2007)

First of all, I am glad to hear your guy is on the mend. Thank goodness for that.

Please don't take my comments as not caring about your dog or your family, but as they are meant........

I am concerned about the sense I am getting from the posts on here, that people think this must be a a monster, killer dog who is just lurking waiting to attack the first innocent child who comes within his reach!

People, dogs fight. Certainly some more than others, but it is a fact. That does NOT make them killers. They don't have a blood thirst once they tasted blood. They are DOGS! 

I am concerned about the attitude that because it is a pit bull it is a monster. Do you know that pit bulls were bred to fight...........other dogs! NOT people. In fact, they were selectively bred to be completely docile to humans. Are there bad pit bulls? Of course there are. But there are some really nasty chihuahuas out there too. 

Please, please don't judge the dog because of it's breed. You know nothing about this dog other than the fact that two dogs were loose and got into a fight. You don't know who or what started it. There is an awful lot of jumping to conclusions going on.


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## Timeshare Von (Jun 5, 2007)

cindi said:


> Please, please don't judge the dog because of it's breed. You know nothing about this dog other than the fact that two dogs were loose and got into a fight. You don't know who or what started it. There is an awful lot of jumping to conclusions going on.



Well put . . . sorta like to kids scrapping and getting into a fight where some serious injuries result.  We wouldn't be ready to swear off and condemn every kid cuz a couple got into a fight (or perhaps more specifically, kids of a particular racial background).


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## wackymother (Jun 5, 2007)

A dog attacked two dogs, unprovoked, in two months in my neighborhood. The second dog died. The attacking dog was not a pit bull. 

Do I think this dog is a monster? Yes. Do I think the dog should have been put down? Yes. Am I afraid to let my dog and my children play outside when this dog is not being properly controlled? Yes.


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## derb (Jun 6, 2007)

Of course there are. But there are some really nasty chihuahuas out there too. Quote

How many chihuahuas out there murdered their masters, mauled children or attacked and hospitalized bystanders.  For some reason, our papers haven't covered those stories, a chihuahua conspiracy no doubt.

As a landlord of 16 properties, owning pit bulls = eviction.  We've all assumed the pit bull owner owns her own home.  If they are renting, believe me, the landlord will be your ally.


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## cheter (Jun 8, 2007)

*Jordan had his Stitches Removed*

Jordan is healing well, except emotionally.  I believe he senses his "Mom", Cleo is gone.  Between the attack & now the loss of Cleo, would be a lot to take.  We have started keeping him in the house again.  They started staying out on our porch when Cleo could no longer control her "poop".  He is constantly under foot, or lays in his box.  He was crate trained, & we leave the door open on the crate.
Yesterday I went to Small Claims Court.  It will cost me $155.  The form was $1.05.  Plus an extra copy of everything, which is $1 per page.  So I took all the documents home, will make copies, & return next week.  The amount of the Vet bills only came to $687, not as much as I expected.  The purpose of going to court, is it is the only way to get the dog documented as a biter.  To this day, I don't even know if this dog has all his shots.  I will be asking for the full amount, plus court costs.  If the owner would "step up to the plate", as a responsible dog owner, and cooperate, none of this would be needed.  But, she refuses to give out any information, & now denies there were no witnesses.  I promise to keep everyone informed.


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## ouaifer (Jun 8, 2007)

I have merged your _new_ Thread into your previous Thread on the same subject.

Please refrain from duplicate Threads/postings in the future.
ouaifer
Moderator


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## Icarus (Jun 8, 2007)

Glad to hear Jordan is doing well.

Good luck with your day in court. Hopefully, the neighbors that witnessed the attack will be testifying? If not,  I guess you can get notarized statements from them. But testifying in person would be better.

I would also recommend that when you give your side of the case, that you try to stick to the facts, make sure you have all your evidence (pictures, vet bills, etc) and not conjecture or emotional testimony.

-David


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## Cathy in Boston (Jun 8, 2007)

First of all, I am glad to hear Jordan is recovering.

I work for an insurance company here in MA.  Most if not all companies now have guidelines as to what breeds of dog are acceptable.  A sort of amusing story - when I first started here, I worked in the department where the underwriting manuals were written and updated.  I was doing an update to the Homeowners manual and as I reviewed the list of prohibited breeds, not only did I find several missing (i.e., they listed "Pit Bulls" - there is technically no such breed, I amended it to show "American Pit Bull Terriers," "American Staffordshire Terriers," "Staffordshire Terriers" and "Bull Terriers" - that one pained me, as they are one of my favorite breeds) - I also found Great Danes on the list.  I almost fell off my chair.  I had to provide some documentation from the internet (NOT hard to find) to convince the powers that be to remove them from the list.  My God, my Golden is more likely to attack than a Great Dane!!

Anyway - I really really hate to hear these stories, not only because of the heartbreak they cause for the injured parties, but because it is these irresponsible owners who give Pit breeds such a bad reputation.  If they are bred right and raised and trained right, they can be wonderful dogs.  If not - the result in something like what happened to Jordan, or worse, when a child is involved.  So sad.


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## lengnuy (Aug 22, 2007)

*Another Pit Bull Attack*

http://www.nbc10.com/slideshows/13950123/detail.html


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## haycat (Aug 22, 2007)

Someone in our cairn-list group shared an article from Washington, where the incident happened.  According to that article, the pit bulls came in through a dog door.  The woman injured is disabled and has a companion dog, which must have been in a crate.

Advice to dog owners:  Even if your dog is locked in a crate, you should still lock the dog door.  Who would have thought.


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## bltfam (Aug 22, 2007)

I'm so sorry for you and your family. I would definitely file a complaint with your local police even if they cant take any action against them just so its on record that the dog was out of control This way if it happens again they will do something 
I also would call the animal control every time I saw the dog out of its yard without being leashed. Are your kids young? Keep them away(I'm sure u do) I love all dog and pitt bulls are no different but its how owners raise them. 
I was attacked several years ago by two pitt bulls I come to find out they were abused and the owner tried to save them 
My adrenaline kicked in and I grabbed me shoe and started beating them until they let go off me they weren't gonna win 
I had to go to the Er get a fee stitches in my leg I was so thankful that it was my kids .The owner had a store front and lived in the back section we were at my grandmas house cleaning while she was in the hospital and they were in the back when I went to the common dumpster. 
Well I wrote letters took her to small claims court and she to promised to take care of my hospital bills but never did 
The sad thing is there was a judgment but she still didnt pay I called her landlord about homeowner insurance and that was pointless too.  There are many pet agencies to help owners with the outrageous vet bills I think they pay 20% or so of your bill you might want to look into this for the follow up visits check in your local area or on line 
Hope he heals quick


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## Topeka Tom (Aug 22, 2007)

*What we really know*

Molly was our Jack Russell terrier, a real wanna-be alpha.  She would bite and do what she pleased, constantly trying to control us.  When she was three months old, we had a day-long talk about who was really alpha.  It was intense, and involved most if the classic dominant-submissive stuff, such as shaking her by the scruff of her neck(gently, but with strong verbal reprimands), holding her down, hitting her across her muzzle (with one finger, not to hurt her, but just strong enough to send the message).

The next day, we began to train her intensely.  We went through LOTS of treats!   In the next month, she learned twenty behaviors.  By the end of that month, two things happened.  We had taught her about all we knew how to teach, and she had calmed down so much that we didn't feel so much need to continue so intensely.  She always stole the show with her "wait."  I could put the treat right under her and she would stare down at it until she got permission to take it.  Many times I had to leave her there for a while, until a picture was taken.  Our favorite was her ringing her bells by the back door to be let outside.:whoopie:  She could "speak," "whisper," and "say Mama."  Three different vocalizations, on cue, is quite an accomplishment.

At about three years, she left her wild puppy stage, and became much more of a lover.  She would jump into a lap if she thought she would be petted.  About that time, I learned about clicker training, and she learned quite a few new tricks such a "go around" and "spin."  I could point to  something (a person or a chair) ten or twelve feet away, and she would go around it and come back to me.

The family whose business was dog-sitting, and who kept our dog when we traveled, moved to a farm.  Before long they had several new dogs.  I expressed alarm that one of them was a pit bull, but I was scolded for being prejudiced and was assured that the dog would be a loving dog if it
was raised correctly.  It was, for about two years.

Then, while we were on vacation, we got a call that the pit bull had killed our Molly.  Topeka Barb cried for over an hour.  Molly was seven years old, and knew 41 behaviors.  She's buried on the farm.

Some people think they know about pit bulls, and how they can be loving pets.  I think they are exactly like the people who just “know” that punishing a dog for an accident inside the house, long after the event, does some good.  They both want to “know” what they wish for.

I do know, but they don’t.


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## babscarter (Aug 23, 2007)

*#1 biting dog in America*

First let me say that I hope Jordie has recovered.  I would offer this suggestion for fence repair: Buy some chicken wire or heavy screen type material. Dig down under the fence at least 2 feet, attach the chicken wire/mesh to the existing fence somehow.  Width needs to be at least a foot farther on each side where he dug out.  (Spot he dug out was 1 foot, make it 3 feet wide) Bury the chicken wire. When he trys to dig out again, and he will. He will encounter chicken wire/mesh. 

98% of pitbulls that are aggressive are made that way by the owner. Blame the owner not the breed.  For the last ten years the #1 biting dog in America is the Cocker Spaniel.  This is not heard much because they do not get the press that pitbull bites do. That reason is the Pitbull's jaw pressure causes much more damage that the Cockers.

Unless Florida law is much different than Georgia, you will not be able to have the pit classified as an agressive dog.  Agressive dog classification pertains to dogs biting people. 

Even if you win in small claims court doesn't mean that you will see the money. About 10 years ago my stepson was playing in a friends yard and thier dog broke his chain and attacked him. The medical bills were about 1400.00. They said they would pay, they didn't. I went the small claims court route, got a judgement against them for the complete amount. However only ever collected 50.00.  You get the judgement but it's still up to you to collect the money, the court doesn't help with this.  Oh there were several more options that I could have chosen.. all costing me yet more money to accomplish. Hopefully things are different now. Good Luck


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## taffy19 (Aug 23, 2007)

*Cheter, how is Jordan today?*

Topeca Tom, your story made me cry as I can feel your pain. We also lost our little dog to a German Shepherd that almost killed her right in front of my eyes.

You really can't blame the animal but only the owners of that pet because animals are not responsible. I saved our little dog from the street only three months earlier from a rental house that we owned out of state. I took her home to CA and we had her operated on twice for a tumor. This must have been the reason why the owners had abandoned her because she was the sweetest and cutest little dog. 

Everything went well until I walked her on the street that evening and a German Shepherd came out of someone's house and attacked her right in front of me. We took her to the emergency pet hospital immediately but she died. We could have sued the owners, according to our city, but it wouldn't have brought her back and their dog would have been put to sleep. I went to see these people and they were sorry but that's all they offered me and the German Shepherd licked my hand so I didn't want him killed. It was their fault for letting that dog run out of the house and we happened to be there right at the wrong moment. That evening is frozen in my memory because we had one of the most beautiful sunsets too so I walked her on the wrong side of the street from what I normally did. I can still cry about it today and I only have one picture of her where she looked so pleased to have found a new home again. This was in 1981. How time flies.

Because of this little stray dog, that I rescued from the street, we ended up with many more pets over the next 26 years. Each one has been the best pet you could ever hope for but Taffy, our only cat left, will be our last pet. We want to travel now without worry and pets and traveling do not mix.

Animals bring a lot of joy but so many tears too when they get sick or are injured and when they finally die.

Cheter, let us know how your Jordan is today.


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## pammex (Aug 23, 2007)

*pitbulls and other breeds*

I am so sorry to hear about your dog and hope he is recovering.  The person whose dog did this to your dog shold have some accountability as should you if there is a leash law.  Dogs fight, that is life.  

There are no bad dogs or breeds of dogs.  I have had dobermans, shepherds, and pit bulls, as well as other breeds, a small poodle being my most nasty dog of all.  

Dogs though we think of them as our kids or family are DOGS.  It is not the dogs fault how they are trained or taught or if they are free to roam etc.  It is the owners!!!  

Nice breeds of dogs are getting a bad rap because of bad owners who give poor or no training to their dogs or who train their dogs to fight and such.  Pit bulls have tremendous strength in their jaws, Dobermans are big and have great strength and big teeth, shepherds have big teeth, strength and persistence.  These dogs are all getting bad reps because yes, due to their breed qualities or size they can cause a lot of damage to another dog or even a person.  

I got rid of the poodle cause it was a nasty dog around his ffod dish and would bite or nip at anyone who passes.  He was put down after trying to train without effect.  Never had a problem with my Doberman, shepherd or pitbull.  I was bitten as a young person by a shepherd, but I was cutting through his yard, the dog was doing what it had been trained to do to protect its property.  My fault.  

Bad owners are the ones who make bad dogs.  People need to control their dogs, train them, seek professional advise and training if they cannot and do not know how to train a dog.  

If a dog truly has a bad temperment or is a problem after training then it should be put down for safety of all but on the whole it is usually the issue of not bad dogs but bad, irresponsible people who own dogs.  

Anyone who owns a dog should have the time and knowledge to train them and control them and not to teach the dog to fight or such.  They should evaluate their dogs personality all the time.  If they do not have the time, patience or ability to do so then they have no business owning a dog, no matter what breed.  If you hit a dog, then just like a kid you are teaching them to be violent, if you allow the dog to control you then you are teaching it to be the leader of the pack.  Animals have instincts which need to be kept under control by owners.  They are just that animals.  

So there are no bad breeds of dogs only bad breeds of people!!!


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## Kal (Aug 23, 2007)

*Silky Terrier Killed by 2 Pit Bulls*

I'll try to make a long story short.

2 pit bulls entered my fenced back yard and eviserated our silky terrier when he brought them his toy to share. I called animal control and requested drastic action on the pit bulls. Since the dogs did not attack a HUMAN, all they could do is have the dogs removed from the county to a half-way house.  Not to mention the dogs visciously tried to attack my wife who was behind a sliding glass door.  Snarling with blood drooling from their mouths was a freightening moment.

When I talked to the owner of the pit bulls for financial compensation, they said things were even. They understood I lost my dog, but THEY LOST THEIR DOGS TOO. How sad....fork over the money!

THE GOOD NEWS - A few months later, I learned from our vet that those very dogs attacked a german shepard which was tied to a leash in the owners back yard. The owner of the shepard simply pulled out his shot gun and terminated both pit bulls. Sometimes revenge is good.


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## mamiecarter (Aug 23, 2007)

*So Sad About your Silky Terrier*

That was a horrible thing to happen to a sweet little terrier.I fear the two pit bulls got what was coming to them but someone going around shooting dogs is scary.


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## Kal (Aug 24, 2007)

When you see two pit bulls wildly ripping the stomach out of your own loved defenseless pet the decision is easy to pull the trigger.  We've all seen dog fights in the neighborhood but this is far beyond that.


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## KristinB (Aug 24, 2007)

Kal, 

I can understand all too well, I'm afraid.  My husband always said that if the neighbors had not voluntarily decided to put their dog to sleep, that he might have felt compelled to take some other action (especially since the dog was in the house right behind ours). It's just so horribly traumatic to lose a loved pet that way...


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## Kal (Aug 24, 2007)

pammex said:


> ....Dogs though we think of them as our kids or family are DOGS. It is not the dogs fault how they are trained or taught or if they are free to roam etc. It is the owners!!! .....
> So there are no bad breeds of dogs only bad breeds of people!!!


 
If you look at pure bred dog lines just as you would look at race horse lines it is very clear that selective breeding has an impact.  Breeding one animal that has a desired trait with another animal having the same trait will give you 1 out of 4 chances that the trait will be dominant in the offspring.  Over time you can produce many animals having that desired trait.  Examples would be color/quality of coat or for horse racing size, or other racing abilities.  Look at the American Kennel Club pedigrees and see the results of selective breeding.

Pit bulls have been selectively breed for many characteristics the majority of which are not commonly acceptable to society in general.  Now add on some cruel training practices and bingo you've got a killer which was already bred in that direction at the get go.

So IMHO it's not just bad people.


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## TUGBrian (Aug 24, 2007)

My mothers 8month old staffordshire bull terrier was attacked by of all things...a black lab.

It didnt make the news though....

nor do I feel labs are violent animals.  That one however certainly seemed to be.

Its amazing how an image of one dog can translate to any dog of its breed regardless....almost like stereotyping.


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## grupp (Aug 24, 2007)

*Another Pit Bull Story*

Recent story from Mpls Star Tribune. 

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1367673.html



Gary


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