# Does anyone have something nice to say [about Mayan Palace] ???



## dollydaydream

Hi everyone, 
I am new to this group and I'm just a guest for now, I recently purchased at the Mayan Palace............I am very concerned to see no positive reports, can anyone reassure me please.
Dolly


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## Karen G

I have moved this new post from the long thread in the Timeshare Boot Camp sticky.

Those who love Mayan Palace, here's your chance to shine.


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## aliikai2

*The Mayan Palace and the Grupo Mayan*

We will be in the Grand Mayan a week from Saturday:whoopie: :whoopie: 

Our first trip to Mexico was to the MP in Nuevo, great trip. We have since stayed in the MP in PV in the Marina area, and the GM on the Rivera Maya, and the GM in Nuevo is our favorite resort. 

The majority of the less than flattering posts here revolve around the sales tours. This is one gal that sincerely didn't like the large resort and has taken it upon herself to try t keep everyone away from any and all Grupo Mayan resorts. You will read her posts soon enough. 

Do you have questions ? We would be happy to help you get the best out of your ownership.

Greg


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## John Cummings

We have stayed 10 weeks at the Grand Mayans in Riviera Maya and Nuevo Vallarta. We are not owners there nor do we own at any Mexican timeshare so I have no vested interest. All of our stays were exchanges through San Francisco Exchange "SFX".

In our 24 years of timesharing, the Grand Mayans are our favorite resorts by far and we have stayed at many top timeshares including the Royals, HGVC, Marriott, etc. The resorts are very well kept and the service is superb. The Grand Mayan units are quite elegant. They are one of the only resorts where we can have a great time without leaving the resort. They are more like a luxury 5* resort than a timeshare.


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## Pat H

I bought from the MP in 1995 and I love their resorts. The resorts are first class and I have always gotten good service and found the employees very friendly. I wish I had known about resales before I bought but after 16 yrs it doesn't matter anymore. Yes, their sales force is very high pressure and I don't like the bad reputation they have. If it's not too late, I would recommend you rescind your purchase and buy resale.


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## DeniseM

It is probably too late, but just in case it's been less than 5 days since you bought, you should rescind, do your homework, and then buy resale for pennies on the dollar.

You have a legal right to rescind.


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## ArthurN

Although we do not own at the MP, we would count MP properties as some of our favorite resorts.  We have never had a bad trip to an MP property.  As a matter of fact, we will be at the MP Riviera Maya 4/1 to 4/8 via an SFX trade. Can't wait to go.  That being said, we have never attended a sales presentation and never will - why ruin a perfectly good trip.  As others have stated, rescind if you can. If not, rest assured you have access to great group of resorts that you will enjoy for many vacations to come.  Everything I have seen suggests that Grupo Mayan takes really good care of their properties and ensures the service is up to par as well.  Unfortunately, from all accounts their sales tactics leave a lot to be desired - and that's really sad for such a class resort otherwise.


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## pianodinosaur

We have had an excellent experience staying at the Grand Mayans.  The Mayan Palace resorts share the same properties including the dining and the pools. During our vacations at the Grand Mayans I did not run into any people having a bad time at either Grupo Maya facilities.  However, I would avoid the sales pitch.


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## dollydaydream

*Should I buy another week on the resale market ?*

Dear All,

Thank you for your advice, I do not know where to buy a week from, I purchased 3 days ago and I can't return back to Cancun.  Any advice is welcome, can you really buy for pennies on the dollar ???  why would that be ??? I know when you buy a new car when you drive it away it is worth less but I was told I was purchasing a resale anyway, I am very confused 59,000 US for 10 years of fabulous vacations for 6 people seems like good value.

I am a little overwhelmed with the whole experience any advice is appreciated.
Thank you

Dolly


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## DeniseM

You don't have to drive back to the resort - you can AND SHOULD rescind by mail immediately.

Yes, you can really buy for pennies on the dollar on the resale market - look at these Ads for resales in Mexico - http://realestate.shop.ebay.com/i.h...kw=&_osacat=15897&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

Look through your purchase papers and see if you can find the instructions for rescission (although they are notorious for leaving them out in Mexico.)

If not, here is an advice article that can give you some guidance - it was written for another resort, but everything else applies to you:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

Be SURE you dispute it with your credit card company immediately, and block any further payments.  Be aware that they may have opened a new credit card Acct. for you - look in your purchase papers.

I would NOT call the sales office - they will do anything and everything possible to block your rescission.  Even if they TELL you that you don't have the right to rescind in Mexico - YOU DO!  It's the law - even in Mexico.

Don't delay - it's critical to have it post marked within 5 days of signing the contract.


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## Karen G

dollydaydream said:


> I purchased 3 days ago and I can't return back to Cancun.  Any advice is welcome, can you really buy for pennies on the dollar ???


According to Mexican law you have five business days after purchasing to rescind. Check  this brochure from Profecoabout your right to rescind. There should be instructions in the contract you signed about the procedure to rescind. Follow them exactly. If you can't find the instructions follow the procedure that Profeco describes:  send a certified letter with your name, address, date of signing, and a simple message that you are rescinding your contract and you want any money you paid refunded immediately. It's very important that send the letter "certified return receipt" because you will need proof that you mailed it within the five-day period.

Since you are unsure if your purchase was a good deal, take some time to do some more research. Check out the resale market. Spend some more time here and learn all you can. Then after all your research if you still think your original purchase was a good deal for you, I'll bet you can buy it again.  But, rescind immediately. You have just this once chance to rescind--if you let the time pass, you won't be able to do it.


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## Passepartout

Oh My Goodness! 3 days! Don't delay! Absolutely rescind. Do it tomorrow as that will be the 4th business day and you are only allowed to do it within 5. 

Yes, you truly can buy exactly what you have for pennies on the dollar. Timeshares right now are almost worth less than nothing. People regularly PAY to give them away. PLEASE rescind following EXACTLY the instructions contained in the papers you signed. If they had you initial that you waive this privilege, don't believe it, rescission is your right under Mexican law!

I know you will get more advice over the next few days than you can possibly digest, but it's for your own good.

Welcome to TUG- You are among friends here!

Jim Ricks


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## DeniseM

Jim - tomorrow is Friday - I don't think she should wait until Monday.


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## Karen G

dollydaydream said:


> can you really buy for pennies on the dollar ???  why would that be ???


Just google "Mayan Palace Resales" to see ads for the resort you bought.  The resale market for timeshares is flooded with timeshares--far more supply than demand--and lots of people want out because they can't afford the annual fees or the high cost of flights to get to the resorts.

Paying the initial cost of a timeshare is not the only expense in owning one. There are annual maintenance fees that usually always increase every year.  You are liable for those fees every year as long as you own the timeshare.  (I think maybe some of the Mayan Palace resorts have some feature whereby you don't pay an annual fee if you don't use your week some year, but why pay all that money to buy one if you're not going to use it. You can rent from another owner anyway, so it's often better to rent than buy these days.)


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## glypnirsgirl

Right here on TUG, I found 6 ads in the marketplace for 2BR/2BA timeshares at various Grupo Mayan resorts for $1000 to $6500. With both the mode pricing being $3,999.

The resorts look beautiful. I can certainly understand their appeal. 

Rescind and buy resale --- right here on TUG.

elaine


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## John Cummings

pianodinosaur said:


> We have had an excellent experience staying at the Grand Mayans.  The Mayan Palace resorts share the same properties including the dining and the pools.



That is not actually true. Both the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya and Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta have their own amenities that can't be used by Mayan Palace guests. Both resorts have separate GM pools and lazy rivers as well as other amenities. Grand Mayan guests have access to both MP and GM facilities but not the reverse.


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## Passepartout

DeniseM said:


> Jim - tomorrow is Friday - I don't think she should wait until Monday.



Y'know, that happens when you are retired. All the days are alike. Apologies to all! Yes, rescind tomorrow! JR


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## John Cummings

If you are able to rescind, and I hope you are, then I would take some time to learn more about timesharing. The bargains are always there. You can try renting a timeshare week first. They are easy to get at a reasonable price.

I don't believe in buying Mexican timeshares because Mexico is very easy to exchange into and as such have poor trading power.

Having said that, if you still want to buy, then I would recommend buying the Grand Mayan rather than Mayan Palace. Even though they share the same property, the Grand Mayan units are a lot nicer and you have more amenities. The resale price should still be pretty cheap.

You can't compare buying a timeshare to buying a car. We always buy new cars because we like the fact that we are the only ones that have used it and we aren't buying somebody else's problems. A timeshare will be used by other people regardless how you buy it.


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## John Cummings

Passepartout said:


> Y'know, that happens when you are retired. All the days are alike. Apologies to all! Yes, rescind tomorrow! JR



I have that same problem. I often don't know which day of the week it is. They are all the same.


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## sally13

*Well...*

When I see the local doomsayers...I have to come out to play.

.Dolly..If you are of limited means...Do as they say...I am not sure of what you purchased..but in that$$$ range ,you should have at least won top product..that is GRAND LUXXE 2b-room ..4 weeks a year.. almost unlimited golf.. many free massages ,to start..

If that is what you have purchased .... 60k is a fair price...for THAT unit..

If not you can talk to Mike for the very best way of dealing with the (system)..

Truth is...most here ,do not see what the VALUE is ,...in what you may have purchased..

Exchanging into the GRAND LUXXE is really not an option..

If you own this property..consider yourself  (well cared for)..

If they sold you anything less,for that $$$$,..yes recind...

good luck....sally


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## pjrose

dollydaydream said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Thank you for your advice, I do not know where to buy a week from, I purchased 3 days ago and I can't return back to Cancun.  Any advice is welcome, can you really buy for pennies on the dollar ???  why would that be ??? I know when you buy a new car when you drive it away it is worth less but I was told I was purchasing a resale anyway, I am very confused 59,000 US for 10 years of fabulous vacations for 6 people seems like good value.
> 
> I am a little overwhelmed with the whole experience any advice is appreciated.
> Thank you
> 
> Dolly



Rescind immediately.  

Dolly, this is not a good value.  Just look at the prices to rent someone else's timeshare - look on the TUG Marketplace, and look on Redweek.com for example.  There is no way that you will pay $6,000 a week to rent someone else's.  

The new vs resale is fairly irrelevant; a timeshare is new only the first night it opens.  New means you are buying at developer prices, resale means you are buying a TS that someone turned back to the developer (default, or asked the developer to sell on his/her behalf) OR a TS that someone is trying to sell.  Resale will be less expensive than original price - but resale through the developer is still high - and $59,000 for ten years is very very high.

Don't forget the maintenance fees (unless you have a special deal that won't include them) that you'll have to pay each year - generally in the $1000 +/- range - and of course food and drink and airfare.

Rescind immediately.  You can rent someone else's, buy an inexpensive resale, or buy an inexpensive timeshare somewhere else and trade in to the Mayan resorts.  

You can buy a resale on TUG, redweek.com, ebay, and other sources online.  People give some timeshares away just to get out from the annual maintenance fees.  

Don't worry that the deal you got won't be there ever again.  If you rescind, you'll have time to do your research, and believe me, in the highly unlikely chance you decide to call them again for this $59,000 deal, they'll jump at the chance.


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## dollydaydream

*Dilemma*

Thank you, everyone for giving me your advice, I called Maria the sales gal I purchased from on her cell, and unfortunately she reminded me that I purchased a resale, it was a membership that was a foreclosure - and the 5 day cancel rule didn't apply as it was used when the sale first took place..............which makes sense, so I guess I am out of luck.................ugggggh!!!

It is not my day,

Thanks anyway,

Dolly


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## DeniseM

dollydaydream said:


> Thank you, everyone for giving me your advice, I called Maria the sales gal I purchased from on her cell, and unfortunately she reminded me that I purchased a resale, it was a membership that was a foreclosure - and the 5 day cancel rule didn't apply as it was used when the sale first took place..............which makes sense, so I guess I am out of luck.................ugggggh!!!
> 
> It is not my day,
> 
> Thanks anyway,
> 
> Dolly



You've been lied to - remember I told you not to call?   



> I would NOT call the sales office - they will do anything and everything possible to block your rescission. Even if they TELL you that you don't have the right to rescind in Mexico - YOU DO! It's the law - even in Mexico.



If you bought from the developer, you did not buy a resale!  RESCIND!  And for heaven sakes quit calling them!

One more time - do NOT believe them when they tell you that you can't rescind - they are lying!


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## Karen G

Dolly, please listen to Denise. Rescind & do not call them again.


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## dollydaydream

*I couldn't help it.*

Please don't be angry, I didn't call the sales office like you told me, this was the sales gal who got us the deal, she is a good christian girl.  I cannot believe she is lieing to me.  

I am now feeling sick about the whole thing.

Dolly


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## DeniseM

Dolly - They are professional liars - that's why you shouldn't contact them any more - the "Christian" line was just part of the set-up. They will say what ever it takes to keep you from rescinding.  

Just rescind - and dispute it with your credit card company - just do it.


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## Passepartout

dollydaydream said:


> Please don't be angry, I didn't call the sales office like you told me, this was the sales gal who got us the deal, she is a good christian girl.  I cannot believe she is lieing to me.
> 
> I am now feeling sick about the whole thing.
> 
> Dolly



She may truly not know your rights under Mexican law. She may indeed be a good believer, but she is trying to make a living on commission. If you rescind, she loses income. Rescind anyway. This isn't charity. Rescind tomorrow. If you study up on what you want your vacations to be like, and it turns out you want to buy from a developer, this deal will still be there.

Rescind- send the letter saying that pursuant to Mexican law, you want to cancel this sale #xxxxxx. Send it certified and get a receipt so that you can challenge it later if need be. Challenge any charge on your credit card.

For the price difference between this and the same thing truly purchased resale you will be able to travel to your vacations and pay for many many massages and rounds of golf if that's your desire.

Good luck and best wishes.... Jim


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## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> 60k is a fair price...for THAT unit..



Advising someone to pay $60K for a timeshare, probably financed, is absolutely irresponsible.


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## LisaH

dollydaydream said:


> Please don't be angry, I didn't call the sales office like you told me, this was the sales gal who got us the deal, she is a good christian girl.  I cannot believe she is lieing to me.
> 
> I am now feeling sick about the whole thing.
> 
> Dolly



Dolly,

Even if you think it's too late, RECIND ANYWAY ASAP and threaten them with notifying Profeco if they refuse to cancel your membership!!!

For the kind of money you are risking, this is at least worth your try...

Good luck!!!


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## LisaH

DeniseM said:


> Advising someone to pay $60K for a timeshare, probably financed, is absolutely irresponsible.



What can I say? Shocking!!!


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## mikenk

Dolly,

In your contract will be the details how to rescind. Follow it exactly and quickly. Don't deal with the sales people; they actually don't work for the company. The resorts and service are great but as others have said you paid way too much.

Having rescinded, then you can start searching for resales which will get you into almost any timeshare pretty cheap. We did buy resale at Grand Mayan and have thoroughly enjoyed our vacations. A nice feature when buying into the system on resale is you will still get full credit for upgrades into things like "no maintenance fee unless you use" and other amenities not available on resale.

As John said earlier, rescind now, research, and then buy if you want but on your terms. 

If you miss the window, don't fret too much; enjoy your great vacations for years to come. Last year, at one of the mayan resorts, I talked to a number of people who had bought at full price. They all knew they paid too much but all said that the money was not as important as the great vacations.

So, rescind if you can, but if not, enjoy the years of vacations. Shoot, I lost more than that many time over during the recession in the stupid stock market. 

Mike


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## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> Advising someone to pay $60K for a timeshare, probably financed, is absolutely irresponsible.



That is not necessarily true if she got a Grand Luxxe with the golf privileges etc. They are head and shoulders above anything else. I am sure you haven't seen them. The Grand Luxxe units are 2700-3000 sq. ft. of pure luxury.

http://www.grandluxxe.com/villas-and-suites.php

I seriously doubt that there are any resales on the open market at this time.


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## DeniseM

Hi John - It may be fabulous - but she bought a 10 year contract for $59,000. That's about $6,000 per week.  I am sure that you can rent this for less.



> I am very confused 59,000 US for 10 years of fabulous vacations



Plus - I know you could afford to buy there - if you think the Luxxe is a good deal, why haven't you bought there?


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## pjrose

*Clarification of Resale*



mikenk said:


> Having rescinded, then you can start searching for resales which will get you into almost any timeshare pretty cheap. We did buy resale at Grand Mayan and have thoroughly enjoyed our vacations.



You bought a resale - sort of - you bought THROUGH THE DEVELOPER.  Maybe it was a resale in terms of someone else's foreclosure, but FROM THE DEVELOPER you are paying a premium.  

The resale you should buy is directly from an owner - redweek, TUG, eBay.


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## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> It may be fabulous - but she bought a 10 year contract for $59,000. That's about $6,000 per week.  I am sure that you can rent this for less.





Depends how many weeks she got. Many of the Mexican timeshares basically sell you a block of weeks to be used during a period of time like 10 years. You can use them however you want. She may have gotten many more than 10 weeks. If she only got 10 weeks then yes, it is a little high. However, $6,000 /week is not totally unreasonable for that type of luxury. Mexico is definitely not cheap in the resort areas. Condo prices are higher than in California.


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## DeniseM

What if she financed it - still a good deal?


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## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> ...Plus - I know you could afford to buy there - if you think the Luxxe is a good deal, why haven't you bought there?



For several reasons. I have said repeatedly that I would never buy a timeshare in Mexico. Second, all the amenities like golf etc, are of no use to us. We have no interest in vacationing in Mexico anymore. Last but not least, we intend to get out of timesharing as it no longer suits our travel preferences.

I didn't say it was a good deal. I simply said that for that type of luxury, the price is not totally unreasonable.


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## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> What if she financed it - still a good deal?



We don't know what her financial situation is and I never said it was a good deal.


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## dollydaydream

*I am going to recind !!!!!*

Thanks everyone, for all your tips, I have faxed the Mayan a letter stating what you suggest re. 5 days and protecto...?? I have the fax receipt slip for proof.  I am shocked to see that the check for the balance has already cleared !!!!!
Does anyone know about debit cards because I used my Scotiabank debit card for the down, that too has already been processed [at this point I have paid 100% of the contract].  

Thanks  

Dolly


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## sally13

*Denise..*

Irresponsible??

By who's book??  Yours??

If indeed she purchased the Luxxe unit, I would say she most likely recieved a 4 week yearly deal..as this is the common way they sell these units...The 10 year limit,...that is for preferred booking..she perhaps owns this 4 weeks a year,for many more years ,after the 10 year preferred booking is over.....NOW..thats alot of guessing...

Dolly should tell us exactly ,WHAT the contract says..

If she has the deal ,I think she does..she has a great property,in a great resort ,that to book on the open market on a yearly basis ,would eat up 60k,in no time at all...also..it will almost NEVER come up on resale (AS A CONTRACT)...

I believe only one has ever come up on Ebay as a divorce forced sale..

For you to call me names..without knowing ALL the facts is par for the course...could not resist..I bet..

Denise it is OK if you like your limited..(non-Mega) resort..If someone requires a larger,more lavish vacation,it is not up to YOU to tell them that they are making a poor deal,based on what YOU think is a good deal...like I said DOLLY needs to spell out,exactly what the contract says..


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## DeniseM

dollydaydream said:


> Thanks everyone, for all your tips, I have faxed the Mayan a letter stating what you suggest re. 5 days and protecto...?? I have the fax receipt slip for proof.  I am shocked to see that the check for the balance has already cleared !!!!!
> Does anyone know about debit cards because I used my Scotiabank debit card for the down, that too has already been processed [at this point I have paid 100% of the contract].
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dolly



Dolly - You need to call your bank and dispute all charges, and block any future charges.  

Did you find any rescission instructions in your packet?  Is FAX the preferred method?

Do not be surprised if they contact you with more reasons that you can't rescind.  DON'T BELIEVE THEM!

Good luck!
Denise


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## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> Irresponsible??
> 
> By who's book??  Yours??



Sally - Since you have already posted on TUG that you have problems paying your bills every month, I sure hope no one is taking financial advice from you.


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## Tropical lady

I am assuming that Dollydaydream's contract reflects what is being written now in most of the sales and that she purchased one (1) week for 10 years and two (2) weeks for 99 years, ie three (3) weeks a year for the first 10 years.  That is why she mentioned a week for 10 years and, yes, that alone sounds outrageous for the money.  We also do not know the level....Mayan Palace or Grand Luxxe or inbetween?  This is just for clarification for the discussion, not for any controversy.
Resales are the way to go, if nothing else just make sure that those contracts contain the "no MF unless used" waiver.  With this clause resulting in no out of pocket expense for not using the time, the motivation to sell in this depressed market is not there, so fewer resales.


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## Pat H

I really doubt that Dolly bought 4 weeks at the Grand Luxxe for 60K. They quoted me $250K. They also told me 2 weeks at the GM was now selling for $80K. Now we all know they lie and the prices drop a LOT as you negotiate but I don't see that big a drop for the GL.

Dolly, can you tell us exactly what you bought? Follow up the FAX with a certified letter according to the rescind instructions.


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## sally13

*advice...*

Denise...you have such a LIMITED outlook...

If my $700 k  (BIG CITY)..dwelling requires a yearly tax fee of $27 k...and my other homes and investments also require an ever increasing cost of holding...then yes ..in this,( punish those that have something era...).I DO think paying the bills is becoming a gargantuan task..

I could sell all of it ,and have NO problem sitting pretty in a paid off lower priced home..

But then I would be stuck with a bunch of quickly devaluing U.S. currency..

Not a good place to be...(you will note I said it would soon start with a huge price increase in oil...Denise you could have paid for a hundred GRAND LUXXES  at $60 k..if you would have followed    my timely advice on oil and invested accordingly....

By the way ..I did bet on the oil spike,and am having a ball...you should have listened,instead of deleting everything,that I wanted to share with the good folks of Tug...

I do know that folks come to tug for financial advice on timeshare..what is the point of knowing this ,if the medium of that price is not taken into account??

[deleted]


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## Karen G

dollydaydream said:


> Thanks everyone, for all your tips, I have faxed the Mayan a letter stating what you suggest re. 5 days and protecto...??


Just to be safe, you should also send a certified letter, return receipt, as that is what PROFECO advises. I don't know if that type of mail is called by the same name in Canada, but you want something that requires the recipient of the mail to sign for it.  The post office returns the card to you showing that it was received.  It is urgent that you do this right away.


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## Passepartout

dollydaydream said:


> Thanks everyone, for all your tips, I have faxed the Mayan a letter stating what you suggest re. 5 days and protecto...?? I have the fax receipt slip for proof.  I am shocked to see that the check for the balance has already cleared !!!!!
> Does anyone know about debit cards because I used my Scotiabank debit card for the down, that too has already been processed [at this point I have paid 100% of the contract].
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dolly



PLEASE, ALSO send them a certified letter, return receipt requested- or whatever the Canadian Postal Service calls it- with the same information: "I wish to rescind contract #xxxx and have all money returned immediately", etc. etc. etc.

This just in case you have difficulty finding the instructions in your contract. They don't make it easy to find.

As to your initial question- "Does anyone have anything positive to say about Mayan Palace?" Yes. They are wonderful resorts. It's just their prices and strong-arm and deceitful sales practices that have earned them the LOWEST possible BBB rating from the U.S. Better Business Bureau. 

Good luck and hurry to the Post Office! And as Denise and others have said, call your bank and CC carrier and contest the charges. Unfortunately, experience here has been that those entities have a vested interest in you charging large sales and generating payments for them. 

Oh, ignore Sally13. She knows not of what she speaks. She is strongly suspected to be a shill for Grupo Mayan.

Jim Ricks


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## california-bighorn

dollydaydream said:


> Please don't be angry, I didn't call the sales office like you told me, this was the sales gal who got us the deal, she is a good christian girl.  I cannot believe she is lieing to me.
> 
> I am now feeling sick about the whole thing.
> 
> Dolly



Unfortunately, she was lieing to you.  You have the right to recind!!!!  She was trying to buy some time so you would be past the "right to recind".


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## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> I DO think paying the bills is becoming a gargantuan task..



Sounds like you are over extended.

Because I'm cheap:

I have no debt except my home - by the way, we built it, and it's only 13 years old. It will be paid off in 4 years - I'm making double payments on a 15 year loan.
I drive a new car which I paid cash for.
We vacation 4-6 weeks a year in timeshares with no ongoing yearly cost - this year:  4 weeks in Hawaii, a week at Disneyland, and a week in Manhattan.
I save/invest more every month than I spend
I will retire at 75% of my current salary - without touching any investments.

So, no thank you, I don't think I need your financial advice.


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## sally13

*well..Denise..*

I was responding to your (do not listen to Sally,she is having trouble making her monthly bills.. jab..post..

this is what I get for sharing??

Trouble is a relative term..as in troubling,.....that costs of ownership has become ever larger..at a very quickened pace..

I would not worry about  Sally being overextended...You and I Denise are not even close to being similar,in the net worth catagory..

As far as YOU not wanting to hear what I believe...I guess all tuggers are held hostage ,to what YOU feel is best for them...Sheesh!!

also ...good luck with the VALUE of that pension in coming years..as well as your other so called SAFE investment plans..

I did bring up a fact, about the VALUE of my correct,predicted,timely advice...This fact is something that you fail to address...

You and Jim, are a good team...

please help us....


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## dollydaydream

*My Mayan Contract*

Many people are interested in exactly what was sold to me at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya, I purchased a 2 plus 2 Grand Luxxe 2 bedroom for 10 years for $59,000.00 US 
I was told that this was a incredible price because it was a foreclosure and it was only available for a cash purchaser.

Is that good?  Why are there so many different prices? 
Please tell me if you know.

Thank you

Dolly


----------



## Karen G

dollydaydream said:


> Many people are interested in exactly what was sold to me at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya, I purchased a 2 plus 2 Grand Luxxe 2 bedroom for 10 years for $59,000.00 US
> I was told that this was a incredible price because it was a foreclosure and it was only available for a cash purchaser.


So that works out to 5900/year. I just googled the same type of unit to see what you could rent it for.

Here's one that rents for about half that.  Here's another one  for even less than the first one. 

What you paid is not an "incredible price." You were ripped off.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Why?*

I do not understand why someone would do that to us, we went to Church with Maria last Sunday night !!!!!

I just remembered what Timothy said.

Timothy 6:10. For the love of money is the root of all evil.

God will help me.

Dolly.


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - are you back home now?


----------



## Tropical lady

*problem with the math....*

Just using the info that she gave us, 2 + 2 equals 4 weeks per year in a 2 bdrm suite.  Sticking just to 10 years that equals 4 weeks per year for 10 years or 40 weeks total.  Therefore she is looking at $1500 per week.  By splitting the 2 bdrm since they are lockoffs, she can double the weeks available which takes them from $1500 to $750 per week.  Since it is not all inclusive, she can cook in if desired.  This is not to justify the amount spent, this is just to put the info as she gave it into perspective.


----------



## Karen G

Tropical lady said:


> Just using the info that she gave us, 2 + 2 equals 4 weeks per year in a 2 bdrm suite.


The 2 + 2 is confusing. If it's a package for four weeks, I wonder why they just don't call it 4 weeks instead of selling it as 2 + 2.  In rental ads, when googling "Grand Luxxe 2 + 2", they refer to 2 massages.


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## Howardfox

This really makes me think we have to do research before we even go on a tour!  I am quite interested in buying in Mexico, but it's so hard to sort out the good deals from the bad - is there a jargon-buster on the site...?  
I nearly got scammed in Dominican Republic a month ago with Blue Bay, and I'm heading for Mexico soon - I am noting all this kind advice!

Howard [ new guy !]


----------



## Howardfox

Hey Dolly,

Check out some of the advice on recession on here, but if you're going to use some of the "legal services" people, don't be too trusting.  Some of them are real ambulance chasers, I hear.   They say they want to "eradicate timeshare frauds" but if they succeeded in doing that, they'd be out of business!   Take care!

Howard
PS  I am a newbe here too, btw...!


----------



## Tropical lady

Yes it can be confusing if you are not involved with the program.  That is why I wanted to give the numbers since everyone was making judgements.
The weeks are not sold necessarily in packages.  When we originally bought, before the Grand Luxxe upgrade, the contracts were 1 registered week plus 1 vacation fair week, ie 2 weeks per year in whatever accommodation (lockoff, 1 bdrm, 2bdrm) you purchased.  Every 5 years there was an extra MF on the registered week.  Sooooo, for every registered week you bought you got a VF week or 1+1, 2+2, 3+3, and so on including benefits for that level.
The contracts, for the most part, changed over the last year to 1 member week and 2 residence weeks per year.  So, 1+2, 2+4 and so on, eliminating the 5 year extra fee to a smaller every 10 year fee, including benefits.  When we costed it out and added the upgrade, the new contracts saved us money and gave us more time. Cost and benefits are what you negotiate apart from the standard sales presentation.
Splitting the units doubles your time.  Benefits for the level of purchase are clearly spelled out.
It took my husband and I many hours to understand all this, but we really do enjoy the program and it has worked well for us.       Hope this helps....


----------



## Karen G

Tropical lady said:


> Yes it can be confusing if you are not involved with the program.  That is why I wanted to give the numbers since everyone was making judgements.
> The weeks are not sold necessarily in packages.  When we originally bought, before the Grand Luxxe upgrade, the contracts were 1 registered week plus 1 vacation fair week, ie 2 weeks per year in whatever accommodation (lockoff, 1 bdrm, 2bdrm) you purchased.  Every 5 years there was an extra MF on the registered week.  Sooooo, for every registered week you bought you got a VF week or 1+1, 2+2, 3+3, and so on including benefits for that level.
> The contracts, for the most part, changed over the last year to 1 member week and 2 residence weeks per year.  So, 1+2, 2+4 and so on, eliminating the 5 year extra fee to a smaller every 10 year fee, including benefits.  When we costed it out and added the upgrade, the new contracts saved us money and gave us more time. Cost and benefits are what you negotiate apart from the standard sales presentation.
> Splitting the units doubles your time.  Benefits for the level of purchase are clearly spelled out.
> It took my husband and I many hours to understand all this, but we really do enjoy the program and it has worked well for us.       Hope this helps....


Thanks for the explanation. That does make it a little clearer. Still, $60,000 cash for a timeshare seems a bit much.


----------



## siesta

howardfox, if you want to buy a timeshare in mexico, look on ebay.  They are selling from a $1 to a few hundred bucks. and before you buy a ts, you should spend some time on this forum.


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## Tropical lady

*perception.....*

Karen,
That is what Dollydaydreamer said she paid.  That is not necessarily what others have paid.  
Also she stated that amount was for 10 years....I suspect she might have confused another issue in the contract and has 99 years.  So all the mental gymnastics with the math might show much less per week over the long term IF I am correct about her contract.


----------



## Passepartout

dollydaydream said:


> God will help me.



Only if you help yourself first. There's time for faith, but this is a time for cold, hard pragmatism. Get your rescission letter out TODAY. If you want to help out your salesperson, cut their parish a check in their name after you are reimbursed what you were overcharged.  They 'helped themselves' now it's your turn.

Jim Ricks


----------



## Passepartout

sally13 said:


> I was responding to your (do not listen to Sally,she is having trouble making her monthly bills.. jab..post..
> You and I Denise are not even close to being similar,.....You and Jim, are a good team...



And I just couldn't be prouder  .... JR


----------



## Pat H

dollydaydream said:


> Many people are interested in exactly what was sold to me at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya, I purchased a 2 plus 2 Grand Luxxe 2 bedroom for 10 years for $59,000.00 US
> I was told that this was a incredible price because it was a foreclosure and it was only available for a cash purchaser.
> 
> Is that good?  Why are there so many different prices?
> Please tell me if you know.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Dolly



$60,000 for the GL for 2 registered + 2 residence weeks is a very good price. Did you already have an ownership at the MP that you traded in? They wouldn't even present the GL option to me at one presentation because they said I didn't have enough equity ($29,000) in the week to be able to trade up to the GL. The m'f/s are high and if you split them they charge you more than 1/2 foe each side. I still think you should rescind!


----------



## Pat H

Tropical lady said:


> The contracts, for the most part, changed over the last year to 1 member week and 2 residence weeks per year.  So, 1+2, 2+4 and so on, eliminating the 5 year extra fee to a smaller every 10 year fee, including benefits.  When we costed it out and added the upgrade, the new contracts saved us money and gave us more time. Cost and benefits are what you negotiate apart from the standard sales presentation.
> Splitting the units doubles your time.  Benefits for the level of purchase are clearly spelled out.



I don't see how you figure you are saving on the renovation fees. Before you paid for only the registered week every 5 yrs and now you pay for the registered and VF weeks every 10 years. Seems like it is the same to me. Also if you split the units to use as 2 weeks, they charge you extra m/f's, e.g. $1500 m.f when split becomes $1000 + $800. Those aren't the actual #'s, just used for illustration.


----------



## sally13

*yes...Jim..*

two people..who know the price of everything,but the value of nothing...

I believe,what Dolly said...about the love of money..is something that a few around here should ponder...

I also bet ...for  those of us who plan on spending 4 to 8 weeks a year in Mexico ..The grupo Mayan properties..would be hard to match in class,safety,upkeep,locations,cleanliness,food safety,on site eatery choice,unit satisfaction,pool and lush landscaping,beach seating,palapas,world class spa and golf courses....and general (four seasons type )  management..among other positive traits...THIS is what you can count on with this resort...This is what one is BUYING,.....GRUPO MAYAN PROPERTIES are NOT just your run of the mill mexican timeshare..

You and Denise can enjoy your recycled breakfast foods for evening snacks ..I am sticking to my grupo Mayan..thankyou...


----------



## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> You and Denise can enjoy your recycled breakfast foods for evening snacks ..I am sticking to my grupo Mayan..thankyou...



That won't be me - We don't do "resort activities" - reminds me too much of summer camp.  I will be out at a local restaurant having a nice dinner with my husband and we will be discussing how nice timesharing is when it's free....


----------



## Tropical lady

*clarification*

Pat, 
First, I have a 1 +2 contract, before the upgrade it was a 1 + 1.
The 10 year MF is less than the every 5 year. We worked the figures and all this was also costed out on the Luxxe Owner's web site spring of 2010 when the contracts changed. 
If you split your unit and make your reservations at the same time, the MF is the same as if both units were the same week. Example,  1 week in a 2 bdrm is the same MF as a week in the 1 bdrm in April and a week in the lockoff in Oct.  Also in contract negotiations that is an issue to address so that you are not hit with higher MF's just because you split the unit and don't make your reservations at the same time.
Depending upon what is important to an owner (negotiated reservation time, price, MF, benefits, MF waiver) vs what the older resale contract does not contain, is the basis for their decision for new or resale purchase.


----------



## Pat H

Tropical lady said:


> Pat,
> First, I have a 1 +2 contract, before the upgrade it was a 1 + 1.
> The 10 year MF is less than the every 5 year. We worked the figures and all this was also costed out on the Luxxe Owner's web site spring of 2010 when the contracts changed.
> If you split your unit and make your reservations at the same time, the MF is the same as if both units were the same week. Example,  1 week in a 2 bdrm is the same MF as a week in the 1 bdrm in April and a week in the lockoff in Oct.  Also in contract negotiations that is an issue to address so that you are not hit with higher MF's just because you split the unit and don't make your reservations at the same time.
> Depending upon what is important to an owner (negotiated reservation time, price, MF, benefits, MF waiver) vs what the older resale contract does not contain, is the basis for their decision for new or resale purchase.



How can the every 10 yrs be less than twice the 5 yrs? They should be the same or more. According to what I was told, it didn't matter when you made the reservations, the split m/f was more. I actually found my sheet from my last "update" meeting and here are the figures for the GM. Full m/f $989, if split $699 + $569 = $1268 or $279 more. Are you saying that's something that can be negotiated?


----------



## Tropical lady

Pat H,
The weekly MF is the same if you book the 2 bdrm for 1 week or during the same reservation process you split the unit.  If I am splitting, I make sure I know my dates and do it all at the same time.  In fact last April, I had made reservations for 2 consecutive weeks using only the suite side and 3 weeks later wanted to add one of the lockoffs back on to one of the suites to make a 2 bdrm for friends and they did it....no additional MF, no problemo!  In addition, when my husband got an infected foot and we had to cancel our 3 weeks last month, they returned the weeks, and offered to refund the MF.  I left the MF paid as we plan to travel asap when the IV antibiotics are stopped.  
It is also something that can be negotiated upfront which we did not know about.


----------



## John Cummings

dollydaydream said:


> Many people are interested in exactly what was sold to me at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya, I purchased a 2 plus 2 Grand Luxxe 2 bedroom for 10 years for $59,000.00 US
> I was told that this was a incredible price because it was a foreclosure and it was only available for a cash purchaser.
> 
> Is that good?  Why are there so many different prices?
> Please tell me if you know.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Dolly



What does the 2 plus 2 mean? I am assuming that it means you have 4 weeks per year. That is not uncommon. If so then the price you paid is very reasonable for the type of luxury which the Grand Luxxe is.

Exactly how many total weeks did you get?


----------



## John Cummings

Howardfox said:


> This really makes me think we have to do research before we even go on a tour!  I am quite interested in buying in Mexico, but it's so hard to sort out the good deals from the bad - is there a jargon-buster on the site...?
> I nearly got scammed in Dominican Republic a month ago with Blue Bay, and I'm heading for Mexico soon - I am noting all this kind advice!
> 
> Howard [ new guy !]



Why buy in Mexico when it is so easy to get an exchange there.


----------



## Grupo Mayan

Dear Dolly, 

There is a lot of information going on here. I guess I may be able to clarify the specific doubts about your purchase if you contact me directly and provide me your contract details. 

There are a lot of benefits when buying from a developer, so, if I can be of any help to you as a representative of the resorts; kindly contact me at: grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com or by telephone at 1-800-292-9446.

Some of your comments do not reflect the way we operate, so we will be more than happy to investigate that further as we take those allegations very seriously. 

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you. 

All the best, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


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## pianodinosaur

John Cummings said:


> That is not actually true. Both the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya and Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta have their own amenities that can't be used by Mayan Palace guests. Both resorts have separate GM pools and lazy rivers as well as other amenities. Grand Mayan guests have access to both MP and GM facilities but not the reverse.



Thanks for the clarification.  We have always stayed at the Grand Mayans and I never thought about that before.


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## John Cummings

Tropical lady said:


> ....no additional MF, no problemo!



There is no such word as "problemo". It is "problema".


----------



## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> That won't be me - We don't do "resort activities" - reminds me too much of summer camp.  I will be out at a local restaurant having a nice dinner with my husband and we will be discussing how nice timesharing is when it's free....



Denise,

Everybody has different opinions on what their ideal vacation is. Some like luxury resorts with all the services and others prefer something else. There is no right or wrong. Some people are willing and able to pay for that extra luxury while others aren't. You and many others appear to denigrate those that don't buy cheap. Some people want that extra luxury and that doesn't make them wrong. They just have different preferences and probably different financial situations.

I tend to agree with Sally13 in that we like luxury resorts and want that pampering and deluxe facilities. That is why we spend a lot of time in luxury hotels rather than timeshares. That is the reason why we like the Grand Mayans. The Grand Luxxe was not available when we spent all our time in the Grand Mayans. The Grand Mayan was their top tier resort. We never bought there because we didn't have to. We were able to exchange there as often as we wanted, and whenever we wanted. We no longer have any interest in going to Mexico.

One big difference between myself and Sally13 is I do not denigrate those that don't agree with me. You have your travel preferences and that is fine. Everybody should do whatever suits their preferences.

So the long and short of it is, it doesn't make it wrong for somebody to spend $60,000 if they can afford it, and that is the level of luxury they want to buy.


----------



## DeniseM

Hi John - I don't object to the resort - it's not my cup of tea, but obviously lots of people love it.  However, experience tells me that you can get the exact same product for less, by buying resale, or renting from an owner.  

IMNSHO,  buying from the developer, without exploring all the other options is a big mistake, and insisting that everyone should buy from the developer is ludicrous.


----------



## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> Hi John - I don't object to the resort - it's not my cup of tea, but obviously lots of people love it.  However, experience tells me that you can get the exact same product for less, by buying resale, or renting from an owner.
> 
> IMNSHO,  buying from the developer, without exploring all the other options is a big mistake, and insisting that everyone should buy from the developer is ludicrous.



I agree with buying resale. However, in the case of the Grand Luxxe, I seriously doubt that there are any resales available because it is pretty new. If you break down the cost of all the weeks she is getting, it is unlikely that you could rent a comparable unit for much cheaper even if it was available.


----------



## DeniseM

I think someone has already posted cheaper rentals in this thread?

I'm not an expert on Mexican timeshares, but at the Starwood timeshares (also high end) there are always resale available before a new resort even opens.


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## Tropical lady

*Oooops!!*

John,
Thanks for pointing out the typo.....would not want anyone to think that's how I spell problema!!  I never professed my Spanish to be more than minimal.
Also, Dolly purchased, according to her info, 2 + 2 weeks or 4 weeks a year on an older contract since most new ones are 1 + 2, etc.
Denise,
The "cheaper rentals" on the thread were based on incorrect comparisons to Dollydaydreamer's info....the weeks/cost assumptions were not accurate.  See my later posts to Pat H.


----------



## John Cummings

Tropical lady said:


> John,
> 
> ...Dolly purchased, according to her info, 2 + 2 weeks or 4 weeks a year on an older contract since most new ones are 1 + 2, etc.
> Denise,
> The "cheaper rentals" on the thread were based on incorrect comparisons to Dollydaydreamer's info....the weeks/cost assumptions were not accurate.  See my later posts to Pat H.



This means that she has 40 weeks which is what I suspected. That is $1500 /week. I did a search for Grand Luxxe rentals and there are very few. Here is a 1BR Grand Luxxe rental for $2200 /week.

http://www.kokotravel.com/grandluxxecondorental.php

Again, I don't think that the price she paid is unreasonable considering what she got.


----------



## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> I'm not an expert on Mexican timeshares, but at the Starwood timeshares (also high end) there are always resale available before a new resort even opens.



That is the problem you are having in understanding this. Mexico has luxury resorts far above anything in the US, Hawaii, or probably most anywhere. The Grand Luxxe is far above anything else. How many resorts have you been to with units that have 2700-3000 sq. ft. of pure luxury. You also have service that you find at a 5* luxury hotel resort. The Grand Mayan/Mayan Palace - Riviera Maya has 1500 employees that wait on you hand and foot. Couple that with free golf privileges that alone is worth several hundred dollars a week. Comparing a regular timeshare to it is like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Rolls Royce.

Here is what the units look like:

http://www.grandluxxe.com/gallery-suite.php

Then you have all the amenities of the resort.

I am not trying to sell you or anybody on it. My purpose is to show why the price is not that high for what she is getting. I realize that it is not everybody's cup of tea.


----------



## LisaH

Tropical lady said:


> Denise,
> The "cheaper rentals" on the thread were based on incorrect comparisons to Dollydaydreamer's info....the weeks/cost assumptions were not accurate.  See my later posts to Pat H.



Tropical lady,

Thanks for your explanation. Since you own three Grand Luxxe weeks, could you share with us how much M/F is per year? Or in the OP's case, how much M/F she needs to pay this year assuming she is going to use all four of her weeks in 2011?


----------



## easyrider

John Cummings said:


> Here is what the units look like:
> 
> http://www.grandluxxe.com/gallery-suite.php
> 
> Then you have all the amenities of the resort.
> 
> I am not trying to sell you or anybody on it. My purpose is to show why the price is not that high for what she is getting. I realize that it is not everybody's cup of tea.



Thanks for the link John. The Luxxe looks like a really nice place. Someday when we quit wandering around and just want to stay at a resort, something like this would be nice. I found it a problemo at the GM to get away from the resort. It took forever to get to the lobby.


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## rifleman69

The Grand Luxxe is very very nice!   Was there back in April just before and during their actual opening.   You will be treated like royalty there.   I had to laugh at some of the prices many of the owners paid, sure it would be great to go back there each and every year but you can get it for much cheaper than anything they paid.


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## sally13

*john...*

In all things being truthfull...

I know you have come to witts with me..

But,I have to object to your thought process on the perception of how you are not like me...

I come here..I am abused in so many ways ,that I can not even count anymore...

I have always respected ones right to have an opinion..thats what makes the world so interesting!..It is those who do not respect my opinion ,that is my main issue ..and keeps me on the defense..

I have a differing view of timeshare..then most here..for this I am slammed relentlessly..even by the powers that be!!

I share deep thoughts,that are of VALUE to all who care to act on them..for this I get slammed even more..

I do appreciate you trying to clarify..you are wise in ways others are not..

I did not know tug was ONLY for bargain shoppers..If this is ALL tug is about...I am in the wrong place..

I never said I thought anyones ideas were wrong..just not the way I see it....You all share your mantra...I share mine...based on an EVER changing marketplace..

Oh and Denise...Mexico would not be an option for us ,without grupo Mayan food standards...I've been to a few ..(not so safe) eaterys all over Mexico..trust me ,making THIS your eating plan,is just plain foolish..If you think you have an iron gut...you have been lucky..your luck WILL run out....

even so..everyone eats at thier resort ,now and then....as always....Enjoy sundays breakfast meat,it was saturdays cocktail weenys!! ..very common at the more basic resorts...


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## John Cummings

easyrider said:


> Thanks for the link John. The Luxxe looks like a really nice place. Someday when we quit wandering around and just want to stay at a resort, something like this would be nice. I found it a problemo at the GM to get away from the resort. It took forever to get to the lobby.



You are welcome. Which resort are you referring to?

There is no such word as "problemo". It is "problema".


----------



## John Cummings

sally13 said:


> I did not know tug was ONLY for bargain shoppers..If this is ALL tug is about...I am in the wrong place..



Having been a member of TUG for 15+ years, I certainly see how you could get that impression. I always find it amusing when people compare a timeshare to Motel 6 like everybody stays in that class of hotel.


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## mikenk

Yikes, this thread got active since I got on a plane to go overseas. I assumed from Dolly's early message that she had bought a Mayan Palace contract for that price, now I understand it is a Grand Luxxe contract. The recommendation to rescind was obvious before - not so obvious now. Tropical Lady has given some good information into this product and options. 

Every Luxxe contract is largely different from others due to timing of purchase and negotiations. Most include free golf, free massages, but can also include "no MF unless you use", senior discounts, and other amenities. As an owner, you can rent your units with these amenities or transfer them, but if you sell on the open market, the amenities will be stripped away for the new owner. Assuming Dolly got all these amenities on her contract, then she will not have the option to buy them on the open market. I hope she contacts Karen Rose to really understand what she has and options.

One of the really great features in all GL contracts is flexibility for scheduling multiple weeks. A 2 bedroom GL suite is huge; you can easily split it and then book more space at any of the other Mayan resorts. For example, I traded my 1 bedroom Luxxe week for a two bedroom Grand Bliss unit in November (which is also luxury). That made the cost half of a GL MF for the week that includes all the free golf and massages. I am using the Luxxe lockoff in April which is still very large just for my wife and me.

Dolly. I apologize for my early recommendation on this thread to rescind as I really don't have enough information on your contract to know. Again, my advice is to talk with Karen Rose, but also read your contract and addenda really to understand what you have.

Mike


----------



## Tropical lady

*not advocating one way or the other......*

Lisa H,
I can't speak for Dollydaydreamer as her MF's probably are different from mine.  I'm saying that because she stated she purchased an exisiting contract and I have no idea what year that contract is from.  It seems to be older, maybe one of the first ones.  Her MF's would start from that contract and probably are less than mine.  
When we figured it out, our initial cost (not Dolly's) for that level over the expected years of use, plus weeks (remember, can be split to double the time) obtained with associated Mf's, the accompanying benefits, concierge, and maid service twice every day, has given my husband and I incredible vacation weeks.  Wish we could afford to buy more!
There has to be a market for this level as I read here on TUG that the Royals (hope I'm correct on the company name) are involved in creating an upscale level for several hundred thousand dollars each....yikes!  No company is going to invest money for all this if there is not a market.
No one can advocate for another's preference or pocket book, just advise with facts so that others are able to make their own decision.
Even if Dolly rescinded, it might be advantageous for her to still contact Karen Rose to understand what she had bought and the details, so that in the future IF she wants to, going forward on another purchase from the developer OR considering a resale, she knows the program and can decide what she wants.


----------



## pjrose

Tropical lady said:


> . . .
> There has to be a market for this level as I read here on TUG that the Royals (hope I'm correct on the company name) are involved in creating an upscale level for several hundred thousand dollars each....yikes!  No company is going to invest money for all this if there is not a market.. . .



The Royals are indeed creating an upscale level for several hundred thousand dollars each, but these are for a longer time frame.  They're not catering to a vacationer for a few weeks each year, but for those who will be spending several months at their fractionally-owned vacation residence.


----------



## Karen G

John Cummings said:


> If so then the price you paid is very reasonable for the type of luxury which the Grand Luxxe is.


One thing that is left out of all the calculations of the cost of a week at any resort is the ongoing, ever-increasing maintenance fees. In another post above, those fees could be $1500 for a 2 bedroom and $800 for a one bedroom.

I didn't take maintenance fees into my quick calculations, either. When I assumed that the OP paid $60,000 for a ten year ownership of one week a year, I just divided by 10 to get a yearly cost of $6000. So if she gets two weeks a year it makes it $3000 and if she gets four weeks it makes it $1500. But you have to add the maintenance fee to each of those weeks, and those fees are sure to go up every year.

As luxurious and special as the GM resorts look and sound, it would seem that they should sell themselves. Why is there such a disconnect between the sales tactics and the actual resort experience?


----------



## Karen G

mikenk said:


> Dolly. I apologize for my early recommendation on this thread to rescind as I really don't have enough information on your contract to know.
> Mike


 Mike, didn't you buy resale yourself?



Tropical lady said:


> Lisa H,
> Even if Dolly rescinded, it might be advantageous for her to still contact Karen Rose to understand what she had bought and the details, so that in the future IF she wants to, going forward on another purchase from the developer OR considering a resale, she knows the program and can decide what she wants.


 When we advise people to rescind, this is why. Most people who regret buying from the developer and want out of their contract are people who bought without understanding what they were buying.


----------



## Tropical lady

*Amen...*

For those of us who enjoy the resort, we have always said that the resort sells itself with out all the high pressure some people experience.  I already posted that in some previous controversial thread.  I also know that I have addressed this during the infamous owner's update and others have as well.
Larger blocks of time can be purchased as fractional ownership, but they do allow smaller purchases.  At first, you could only buy 4 week blocks although they were set up for several month blocks, but thankfully that changed for our benefit.  I understand the Royals are going to do that too as was stated in the TUG thread about this.
If this isn't enough, Grupo Mayan is presently building, in the newest tower, 3 bedroom units, bigger than the GL, sold in blocks of time and have been selling very well for this early in the program.  They are also involved with a high end luxury hotel that may be housed in the same building.  It looks like the Royals are using the same concept?  The market is apparantly driving all this contrary to how we feel about costs, resale, etc.
Karen G.....I did mention the associated MF's in post #91.  I thought MF's were always in the equation, but the posts, I thought, were addressing the purchase price and how that affected the price per week.


----------



## Karen G

John Cummings said:


> This means that she has 40 weeks which is what I suspected. That is $1500 /week. I did a search for Grand Luxxe rentals and there are very few. Here is a 1BR Grand Luxxe rental for $2200 /week.
> 
> http://www.kokotravel.com/grandluxxecondorental.php
> 
> Again, I don't think that the price she paid is unreasonable considering what she got.


But, John, you didn't consider the maintenance fee of that $1500 week. If the MF is $800, that makes the week's cost $2300 which is about the same price as the rental.  Why buy when you can rent or trade in through SFX with no restrictions on the number of times you exchange into the resorts?


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - How about an update?  

Have you gotten any response to your FAX from the resort?  

Did you respond to the post from their Rep., Karen, above?  

Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## mikenk

Karen G said:


> Mike, didn't you buy resale yourself?
> 
> When we advise people to rescind, this is why. Most people who regret buying from the developer and want out of their contract are people who bought without understanding what they were buying.



Yes, I bought my Grand Mayan unit from an individual. I then upgraded to the Grand Luxxe through the company negotiating with the Grupo Mayan member services people (like Karen Rose). That was a totally different and good experience - totally different from working with the contracted sales people. 

In Dolly's case, I really don't know who she is talking with and the specifics of her contract to make a hard recommendation. My gut feel is she also doesn't fully understand it and probably should rescind, learn, but continue negotiating. I actually did rescind during my negotiations but we never quit talking until we were both happy with the results. I hope Karen Rose can help them get it sorted out.

Mike


----------



## rifleman69

Karen G said:


> But, John, you didn't consider the maintenance fee of that $1500 week. If the MF is $800, that makes the week's cost $2300 which is about the same price as the rental.  Why buy when you can rent or trade in through SFX with no restrictions on the number of times you exchange into the resorts?



While there may be a few things that owners would receive than renters (it does happen), this is why we laughed at the prices many people paid for Grand Mayan and Grand Luxxe purchases.   Just about every timeshare needs outsiders to trade in (so that they can try to sell them!!), sure the outsiders may be limited on when they can trade in (availability) but it can be done quite easily at most resorts.


----------



## Pat H

Tropical Lady, I don't see any m/f's lsited in post 91. If I remember correctly, I was quoted around $1700/week for a 2 bdr.


----------



## easyrider

John Cummings said:


> You are welcome. Which resort are you referring to?
> There is no such word as "problemo". It is "problema".



The Luxxe link. It looks like a great place in Nuevo Vallarta if :
1. The parking garage is not out in front of the north wing of thr GM. If a person has to check in at the GM lobby it would take at leasy 45 minutes to check in.
2. The building is square so some rooms will not have a bay view. I dont care how nice the room is if the view is the service road.
3. I like this side of the Mayan properties near the adult pool.

Even though your right many gringos say no problemo and every one understands them just fine.

g rated link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oFqnIXSM64&NR=1

no problemo es argo para no hay problema. hasta la vista baby

pg rated link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm24lWSu-aE


----------



## mikenk

Karen G said:


> One thing that is left out of all the calculations of the cost of a week at any resort is the ongoing, ever-increasing maintenance fees. In another post above, those fees could be $1500 for a 2 bedroom and $800 for a one bedroom.
> 
> I didn't take maintenance fees into my quick calculations, either. When I assumed that the OP paid $60,000 for a ten year ownership of one week a year, I just divided by 10 to get a yearly cost of $6000. So if she gets two weeks a year it makes it $3000 and if she gets four weeks it makes it $1500. But you have to add the maintenance fee to each of those weeks, and those fees are sure to go up every year.



For me, the calculations were rather straightforward when I decided to upgrade. I know how much I budget for vacations every year; my goal is to get as much vacation value possible for those dollars. i am willing to spend $ up front if the cost savings of each vacation will pay back in a reasonable period. Savings is more than just the room; free golf and other amenities also count. In my case, we are able to vacation twice as much on the same dollars and with the level of luxury we like. Everybody's situation will be different.

In the case of the Grand Luxxe villa, we effectively have 6 weeks a year to use as we can split and mix. Seldom will we need the whole thing. For us, it was important to have the feature of no MF unless we use to make our calculations work as we don't want to feel a hostage to a yearly obligation.

Mike


----------



## DeniseM

Confirming what I said about trading into this resort or renting, 56 Grand Luxxe weeks were just deposited in II...

There are also Getaways for $257 a week - that's $36.71 a night.

So much for "exclusive."  I can use a 1 bdm. with a maintenance fee of $700 and trade into a 2 bdm. that sleeps 6.


----------



## california-bighorn

Even though your right many gringos say no problemo and every one understands them just fine.

g rated link
[url said:
			
		

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oFqnIXSM64&NR=1[/url]
> 
> no problemo es argo para no hay problema. hasta la vista baby
> 
> pg rated link
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm24lWSu-aE



You are correct.  We have taken this word/ phrase and for lack of a better word, we have "Englishised" it to make it sound better to most of us.  Kinda, like you know, slang.  If fact, I have only heard it pronounced with the "O" at the end by both gringos and latinos.  Or is it gringas and latinas?  I give up.


----------



## Tropical lady

*Hey.....*

Denise,
Don't all timeshares exchange?  Have I missed something?  Where did exclusive come from?


----------



## DeniseM

It has been expressed by some that this resort would be difficult or impossible to exchange into, or that low cost rentals are not avaialble - supporting the idea that you need to buy there to go there.

I'm just pointing out that you can exchange in, or rent a Getaway, for a fraction of the cost of buying.


----------



## Tropical lady

*answering comments....*

Pat H,
In post #91 I did mention that we took the initial cost for that level plus the weeks of use WITH THE ASSOCIATED MF'S, etc, etc, to determine if it was worthwhile for us.  Just as Mikenk posted.
Karen G,
My comment to Dolly was to go back to Karen Rose to clarify what was contained in her rescinded contract so that going forward, by understanding that program and what she learns on TUG for general t/s information, she can better decide what is the best for her.


----------



## Tropical lady

*don't think so....*

Denise,
I have not read that this resort would be difficult to exchange into.  The units are still being built and availability might be limited for the short term.
What WAS mentioned that because of the "no mandatory mf unless use" waiver, the motivation to sell in this down market is decreased since there is no yearly mf bill.
I don't think anyone mentioned that this level in this t/s company is any different from any other t/s for accessibility, rentals, or some getaway weeks.


----------



## mikenk

The Grand Luxxe trades through II only. i wouldn't think (but don't know for sure) that the other amenities (etc. free golf / massages) transfer on an exchange. I do believe that the II arrangement is unfair for GL owners at this point in time; I complain about this every time I visit. 

If I trade in my unit, I lose the golf and massages - so not worth it for me to exchange. this is not huge for us since we signed up to use not trade, but still not fair overall; i hope Grupo Mayan is reconsidering this arrangement.

It appears theat GM independently gives GL units to II. I have no problem as long as the owners can get what they want during this growing phase. I hope GM is monitoring this closely. Any comments for us owners from Karen Rose would be welcome regarding the II policy.

Mike


----------



## John Cummings

mikenk said:


> The Grand Luxxe trades through II only. i wouldn't think (but don't know for sure) that the other amenities (etc. free golf / massages) transfer on an exchange. I do believe that the II arrangement is unfair for GL owners at this point in time; I complain about this every time I visit.
> 
> If I trade in my unit, I lose the golf and massages - so not worth it for me to exchange. this is not huge for us since we signed up to use not trade, but still not fair overall; i hope Grupo Mayan is reconsidering this arrangement.
> 
> It appears theat GM independently gives GL units to II. I have no problem as long as the owners can get what they want during this growing phase. I hope GM is monitoring this closely. Any comments for us owners from Karen Rose would be welcome regarding the II policy.
> 
> Mike



The Grand Luxxe also trades through SFX. I did an on-line search on SFX earlier today and there are quite a few Grand Luxxe 2BR and 1BR weeks available. Grupo Mayan is affiliated with SFX. These are probably developer weeks though I am not certain of that. I wasn't searching for the Grand Luxxe. They just came up when I was searching all resorts. One big advantage to exchanging for them through SFX is I can request it up to 18 months in advance.


----------



## John Cummings

california-bighorn said:


> You are correct.  We have taken this word/ phrase and for lack of a better word, we have "Englishised" it to make it sound better to most of us.  Kinda, like you know, slang.  If fact, I have only heard it pronounced with the "O" at the end by both gringos and latinos.  Or is it gringas and latinas?  I give up.



I am fluent in Spanish, my wife is Mexican and I lived in Mexico and Venezuela. I have never heard nor seen anybody that speaks Spanish ever say "problemo". The word does not exist in the Spanish language.

There are both Gringos/Latinos and Gringas/Latinas. The former refers to males and the latter to females.

I would love to know why you think "problemo" sounds better than "problema". This is not slang, it is just incorrect.


----------



## PigsDad

John Cummings said:


> I am fluent in Spanish, my wife is Mexican and I lived in Mexico and Venezuela. I have never heard nor seen anybody that speaks Spanish ever say "problemo". The word does not exist in the Spanish language.
> 
> There are both Gringos/Latinos and Gringas/Latinas. The former refers to males and the latter to females.
> 
> I would love to know why you think "problemo" sounds better than "problema". This is not slang, it is just incorrect.


Well, there is no such word as "shux" either, but I don't see you jumping down Alan's throat whenever he says that.

Lighten up a bit.  Good grief.  TUG is no place for the spelling police.


----------



## Karen G

John Cummings said:


> I would love to know why you think "problemo" sounds better than "problema".


Reminds me of a song:  I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to   Here's more about pronunciations.


----------



## John Cummings

Karen G said:


> Reminds me of a song:  I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to   Here's more about pronunciations.



This is not a matter of pronounciation. Spanish is not the same as English. Spanish is much more structured and has gender rules.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Question.*

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all, Karen and Denise and many others have been great, I have had little sleep since joining this group but I now feel better equiped to deal with my situation.  I am currently in Lake Chapala and have met some fellow Canadians, I spoke of my purchase etc. and they have told me about this amazing travel club which they belong to and it costs very little about $300 US a year !!!!!!  you can use ALL timeshare company exchange weeks and a lot more..... it is called Worldventures, does anyone have any information or opinion about them please?
You do not have to buy, they do operate a multi level marketing program which I have no interest in, for me like Amway, I became a distributor just because I wanted the products and I still buy them but I never got anyone apart from my brother to join up.

I did sleep last night and am enjoying this last part of my holiday up in the Mexican mountains.

kind regards

Dolly


----------



## DeniseM

Travel Clubs are a scam - do NOT buy in.  Wait until you get home and have time to do your homework!  All these travel clubs have is left over exchanges that no one else wants.


----------



## John Cummings

PigsDad said:


> Well, there is no such word as "shux" either, but I don't see you jumping down Alan's throat whenever he says that.
> 
> Lighten up a bit.  Good grief.  TUG is no place for the spelling police.



Allan can speak English however he wants.

Look, it is not my intention to offend anybody nor be the spelling police.

I was hoping that it would be taken in the spirit in which I offered it which was to hope that people may learn something about Spanish. Many people seem to like to inject some Spanish words into their posts for whatever reason. I just thought they may like to know what is the correct way to say it. If they don't want to learn, so be it.


----------



## sally13

*well..*

as  far as travel club weeks go..I bet the II-luxxe weeks are (OFF) weeks as well....Denise

The point in owning a property such as the luxxe,is as a part of a lifestyle..people who buy top tier product,want to be able to ACTUALLY Use  thier weeks each year..winter time preferably...trying to luck into a grand luxxe will not be easy and most likely NOT be an ongoing offering..

I will tell you that the only reason this II deal was made,was a limited contract for exposure...

The small total # of luxxe units that will be available for use in totality, in any year,will confirm this..couple this with the ongoing multiples of new contract owners coming online daily,and you have a lot of folks fighting for time...

also..I would bet II has adopted the RCI new trading resort ranking..Where a lowly property..(NOT EVEN BASED ON B-ROOMS)..comes into play..

This means that Denises unit will not be even considered as an appropriate trade..They will not make it ,Even if they have availability...


----------



## Pat H

_You've got mail._


----------



## Karen G

sally13 said:


> .I bet the II-luxxe weeks are (OFF) weeks as well.


Is April an off week in Mexico?


----------



## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> Also..I would bet II has adopted the RCI new trading resort ranking..where a lowly property..(NOT EVEN BASED ON B-ROOMS)..comes into play.
> 
> This means that Denise's unit will not be even considered as an appropriate trade..They will not make it, even if they have availability...



Sally, you are so funny.  I own 3 Starwood timeshares, and I can see everything in II with them.   II has always ranked resorts.   You may not be aware, but RCI has gone to an all points system, which is completely different than II. 



> As far as travel club weeks go..I bet the II-Luxxe weeks are (OFF) weeks as well....Denise



Actually, the 56 weeks were spread over 7 mos. - quite a nice range of date choices - April through Dec.   



> Trying to luck into a Grand Luxxe will not be easy and most likely NOT be an ongoing offering..



I'll take that bet - I think we will see lots of ongoing deposits from Grand Luxxe:
1)  Travel to Mexico is very depressed
2)  The retail price for these units is high
3)  The economy is bad
4)  People are afraid of violence and disease in Mexico
5)  People are (rightly) afraid of being scammed by TS sales people in Mexico

You made the EXACT same prediction about trading into the top tier Mexican timeshares 5 years ago - and you lost that bet, too.  It's easier than ever to trade into Mexico.  



> The point in owning a property such as the Luxxe, is as a part of a lifestyle..



So let's see - I can spend $60,000 and "buy the lifestyle" or I can trade my $700 a year TS and get the exact same unit....  

I think I will save $59,300 and not "buy the lifestyle."


----------



## Rubin I

Mayan resorts  are GREAT places to vacation.  The resorts are well kept, pools are fantastic, rooms ( 2bedroom ) is large.  We've been members since 2002.  

The issue(s) (I believe) is their time share presentation and multiple claims that are simply NOT true, or are they? Because you never know, and neither does anyone else.  Other bothersome issues include their building practices, for example they've been building a resort in Argentina for years, have no idea if any progress has been made (and I am a member).  They keep changing their concept and they market it well.  First Mayan Palace was tops, then it became Grand Mayan, now it's Bliss or LUXX.  They are building a resort in Hawaii, or are they?

Use Mayan resorts for a nice relaxing vacation, avoid their restauramts, food is overpriced and oily.  :whoopie: My advice is avoid the time share presentation, and enjoy your vacation.  that is unless they give you a great deal, so if they say 500 pesos off your bill, ask for 1500 (I am serious).  BEWARE: If you go to presentation, you are there for 3 hrs.


----------



## Pat H

Rubin I said:


> Mayan resorts  are GREAT places to vacation.  The resorts are well kept, pools are fantastic, rooms ( 2bedroom ) is large.  We've been members since 2002.
> 
> The issue(s) (I believe) is their time share presentation and multiple claims that are simply NOT true, or are they? Because you never know, and neither does anyone else.  Other bothersome issues include their building practices, for example they've been building a resort in Argentina for years, have no idea if any progress has been made (and I am a member).  They keep changing their concept and they market it well.  First Mayan Palace was tops, then it became Grand Mayan, now it's Bliss or LUXX.  They are building a resort in Hawaii, or are they?
> 
> Use Mayan resorts for a nice relaxing vacation, avoid their restauramts, food is overpriced and oily.  :whoopie: My advice is avoid the time share presentation, and enjoy your vacation.  that is unless they give you a great deal, so if they say 500 pesos off your bill, ask for 1500 (I am serious).  BEWARE: If you go to presentation, you are there for 3 hrs.



Actually I have found the food very good.


----------



## Rubin I

*Another question about Groupo Mayan*

-Does anyone know the TRUE status of the Argentina Resort?
-Is it true that they've purchased and renovated a resort in Dominican republic?
-Are they ever going to build Bliss?


----------



## DeniseM

Hi Rubin - A gentle suggestion.  Rather than starting a new thread about Grupo Mayan, please post any additional comments in this thread.  (I moved the post above to this thread.)

As far as the Bliss goes, as I recall it is partially open and a Tugger has stayed there?


----------



## mikenk

Rubin I said:


> -Does anyone know the TRUE status of the Argentina Resort?
> -Is it true that they've purchased and renovated a resort in Dominican republic?
> -Are they ever going to build Bliss?



During my last trip a month back, here are my thoughts after discussions with a friend in member services.

Grupo Vidanta's building strategy and sales effectiveness are closely aligned. The Luxxe brand has been received quite well and that is where the bulk of the construction is. The Bliss brand has not been as well received as it is a renovation of the Mayan Palace and most entry level people seem to prefer the Grand Mayan units. My belief is there will not be a Bliss brand or buildings.

The building strategy at the owner level seems to be constantly under review based on sales income which drives construction and customer input. It appears from the discussion that a resort complex in the Dominican Republic is a go; Argentina I think is still up in the air as to timing and what they build if anything.

Mike


----------



## Pat H

As far as I know, the Bliss is not going to be built. I think there is a Grand Bliss building completed but I am not sure at which location.


----------



## DeniseM

I could certainly be wrong, but I was thinking that it was TUG member pittle that stayed there?


----------



## mikenk

Pat H said:


> As far as I know, the Bliss is not going to be built. I think there is a Grand Bliss building completed but I am not sure at which location.



The Grand Bliss is a renovation to the Grand Mayan units. There is one existing in Nuevo and one to be built in Riviera Maya. How many will be built and how fast I think will depend on the percent upgrading to the GB versus the GL.

Mike


----------



## california-bighorn

John Cummings said:


> I am fluent in Spanish, my wife is Mexican and I lived in Mexico and Venezuela. I have never heard nor seen anybody that speaks Spanish ever say "problemo". The word does not exist in the Spanish language.
> 
> There are both Gringos/Latinos and Gringas/Latinas. The former refers to males and the latter to females.
> 
> I would love to know why you think "problemo" sounds better than "problema". This is not slang, it is just incorrect.



Sounds more 'normal' because that's what I'm used to hearing ( yes, even here in Northern California).  I am well aware the word with an "o" on the end does not exist in Spanish, and the "a" and "o" refer to gender, I confirmed that in two Spanish dictionarys prior to replying.  I was just trying to make light of the nature of your reply to Easyrider and Tropical lady.  Apparently this doesn't go over very well with those who are wound a little tight.  Vacationing and everything that goes with it, including timeshare discussion should be fun, relaxing and enjoyable as well as educational. "If we weren't all crazy we would all go insane"  JB & the Coral reefers.  Sorry this has gotten off subject of the MP's.
BTW, we have stayed at MP's 3 times and think they are great places, just need to stay away from the sales staff to keep your vacation enjoyable.


----------



## pittle

DeniseM said:


> I could certainly be wrong, but I was thinking that it was TUG member pittle that stayed there?



Gosh, a lot has gone on since I have been out of town for a few days without a computer!  

Denise, I was at the Mayan Palace Regency in Acapulco in January - this is only the 2nd MPR that is listed in the RCI book, but,  I will say that the name "Regency" was not on either building (we have been to both) - they just say Mayan Palace.  I am also not sure that there will ever be just "Bliss" buildings.  I agree with mikenk that the Bliss just seems to be a MP with different furniture.  The one model that I saw in Puerto Penasco did not impress me at all - white fabric on the sofas, no tubs in the bathrooms (not family friendly if you have small children), fewer drawers in the bedrooms to store your clothing, but the kitchen area had a larger over the cook-top microwave and the sink was on one side which created a larger prep area.  I was not impressed with the Grand Bliss at all.  The kitchen had an island, but there were two under counter refrigerators in the island - I would prefer a larger refrigerator than two large dorm-sized ones.  

I did go to an update breakfast in January and they said that the Argentina location is almost ready to open, but it is NOT a Grand Mayan like we all thought it was going to be - it is a Mansions of the World Resort (HOTEL).  That is the same for the Dominican Republic location.  My personal opinion is that they will not build in Hawaii as they will have too many regulations.

I *love* the Mayan Palace and the Grand Mayan Resorts.  We purchased our first unit from the developer and then started buying via eBay so that we could have more weeks for less $$.  We have upgraded some of the eBay purchases to a couple of Grand Mayan units.  We saved $$ going this route.  We currently own 4 MP weeks and 2 GM weeks and all have the Vacation Fair weeks and the no pay unless you go feature, plus we have the Profile A designation for our GM weeks.  We are happy with what we have and do not plan to upgrade any more.  Our grown children will have the opportunity to assume our contracts when the 25 year renewal comes up, but if they do not want them, we are done.  I have stated many times that when we are between 79-86, our traveling may slow down.  We do not plan to renew any contracts in our names and definitely do not plan to extend our contracts by upgrading/re-writing any of our contracts.

PatH is correct that the Grand Bliss in Nuevo has opened.  From what I understand, others are under construction but no specific opening date has been suggested for any of them.


----------



## DeniseM

Thanks, Phyllis - I stand corrected.


----------



## sally13

*Well Denise..*

you are so funny as well...

The lifestyle (in case you have been under Jims rock,with him)..Is wintering in mexico....... high season is  december through april..Many want to live in a warmer climate for these months..

most grand luxxe buyers are MOST interested in THESE months..

You will NEVER be able to stay in a luxxe unit in these months with your unit trade..

You stand corrected AGAIN,as these months book out within minutes of  (1st  day of month)open booking..as well as most months all year long..

II is just recieving inventory as an EXPOSURE deal..to drum up buyers ...meaning trading is NOT an ongoing given..56 weeks are nothing but a lotto for a few onetime lucky souls..to think otherwise is just silly..

To purchase grand luxxe is the ultimate in timeshare ownership..

You can not even  remotely compare starwood units ,in an even bedroom trade..and they will NEVER be treated as such..

All your (reasons) ..why you will be able to trade into Grand Luxxe,will not last,and have not stopped folks from going to Mexico,even in these hard times...also grupo Mayan properties are the industry poster child ,for keeping folks safe...both in thier 5 star eaterys as well as within thier gates..

also again...boy... did I need (Pigsdads)support on tug not being a spelling bee ,as he so stated...You know in past posts ,that you complained I was uneducated??...for missing a few words..

I do know how to use spellcheck..but will not because you demand..sorry ..just the way I am..


----------



## John Cummings

Karen G said:


> Is April an off week in Mexico?



No, April is not an off week. In fact the week before and after Easter are two of the busiest weeks as that is when all the Mexicans vacation. We stayed at the Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta at that time and the resort was well over 100% occupancy. This is especially true in Puerto Vallarta, Nuevo Vallarta, Mazatlan, and Acapulco.


----------



## John Cummings

DeniseM said:


> 1)  Travel to Mexico is very depressed
> 
> Actually, the 56 weeks were spread over 7 mos. - quite a nice range of date choices - April through Dec.



Actually that is not true. Tourism in Mexico is up substantially. Check this out:

http://travel-industry.uptake.com/b...ourism-and-violence-expected-to-rise-in-2011/

That date range is the slow time or off time in Mexico.


----------



## John Cummings

Pat H said:


> Actually I have found the food very good.



I agree with you and the prices are certainly NOT expensive for the type of resort.


----------



## DeniseM

Sally - You kind of lost me with your post above, but as far as trading into Grand Luxxe - only time will tell.  I will be sure to let you know when I see all  the deposits...  

Hey Jim - your rock or mine?  :rofl:


----------



## John Cummings

I suspect that the Grand Luxxe weeks that are available now are developer weeks. Being a new product, they want to get people there for potential sales.


----------



## DeniseM

I just did another search for Grand Luxxe with my one of my Starwood weeks   and there are more than 60 deposits now - including Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve week.


----------



## mikenk

DeniseM said:


> Sally - You kind of lost me with your post above, but as far as trading into Grand Luxxe - only time will tell.  I will be sure to let you know when I see all  the deposits...
> 
> :



I agree: time will tell. In reality, I believe Grupo Mayan largely controls that as it appears they are bulk releasing properties into II and SFX inventory. If so, I think this is a dangerous business strategy as it cheapens the brand name, and makes ownership less valuable. 

In my case, I upgraded primarily to receive the extra goodies like free golf and massages but, as an owner, I certainly want first crack at the available inventory. To me, it doesn't appear that has happened in the past with Grand Mayan inventory; from all appearances, the Grand Luxxe policy seems to be pointed also in that direction. I hope it is only temporary, but time will tell.

Mike


----------



## Passepartout

DeniseM said:


> Hey Jim - your rock or mine?  :rofl:



It'd get kinda cozy under there with your DH and the LOML. Maybe we'd just have to exchange into a Luxxe one in Mexico.   JR


----------



## easyrider

John Cummings said:


> I agree with you and the prices are certainly NOT expensive for the type of resort.



Is the cost of this about $8500.00 per week ? 60K / 10 = 6k + $1500 mf per year. That would be about $1200 a night.  

John and Sally feel that this is a good price and have paid this kind of money to stay at a resort ? I guess its a price seen at many resort websites.

I have not been to the Lux but I bet if I do it would be in the winter for around $1500.00 to $2000.00 for the same two bed unit for the entire week. This is because many people buy these on impulse and decide they don't want to go so they rent their week to people like me.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Does anyone know anything about Worldventures ???*



dollydaydream said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Thank you all, Karen and Denise and many others have been great, I have had little sleep since joining this group but I now feel better equiped to deal with my situation.  I am currently in Lake Chapala and have met some fellow Canadians, I spoke of my purchase etc. and they have told me about this amazing travel club which they belong to and it costs very little about $300 US a year !!!!!!  you can use ALL timeshare company exchange weeks and a lot more..... it is called Worldventures, does anyone have any information or opinion about them please?
> You do not have to buy, they do operate a multi level marketing program which I have no interest in, for me like Amway, I became a distributor just because I wanted the products and I still buy them but I never got anyone apart from my brother to join up.
> 
> I did sleep last night and am enjoying this last part of my holiday up in the Mexican mountains.
> 
> kind regards
> 
> Dolly



Hello again,

No one made a peep about this company, on the internet they maintain they are huge.
Does anyone have personal experience with them?

Thank you

Dolly


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - Travel Clubs are not well-regarded around here.  They have no underlying deeded ownership, so when they go bankrupt, the owners are left with nothing.  Also - most of their inventory is the leftovers from the exchange companies.  

I would never buy into one, and I hope that you will wait until you have gotten home, rescinded your Grand Luxxe contract, and done a lot of homework on TUG before you buy ANYTHING.

Did you notice the posts in this thread about inexpensive rentals and trades into the Grand Luxxe?  Hang around and find out about that option.

BTW - what's going on with your rescission????????


----------



## easyrider

dollydaydream said:


> Hello again,
> 
> No one made a peep about this company, on the internet they maintain they are huge.
> Does anyone have personal experience with them?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Dolly




Its likely a scam.

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=6750
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/world-ventures.aspx

http://www.ripoffreport.com/travel-...es-tra/world-adventures-travel-inte-a52j9.htm


----------



## John Cummings

easyrider said:


> Is the cost of this about $8500.00 per week ? 60K / 10 = 6k + $1500 mf per year. That would be about $1200 a night.
> 
> John and Sally feel that this is a good price and have paid this kind of money to stay at a resort ? I guess its a price seen at many resort websites.
> 
> I have not been to the Lux but I bet if I do it would be in the winter for around $1500.00 to $2000.00 for the same two bed unit for the entire week. This is because many people buy these on impulse and decide they don't want to go so they rent their week to people like me.



My post was about the price of meals at their restaurants.

Plus your math is terriblly flawed.  It is not 10 weeks. It is 40 weeks over a 10 year period. Go back and read all the posts. That is $1500 /week for a 2700-3000 sq. ft. luxury unit with special amenities.

You certainly jump to a lot of conclusions without knowing anything about it.


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - they have a C- rating with the BBB:



> Complaints are regarding *misrepresentation of the promised savings on travel*, slow or non delivery of promised refunds and dissatisfaction with customer service. Specifically, customers complain that *paying the company fee and following the company business model does not provide promised savings as stated by company representatives*. The company resolves complaints by offering refunds or refering to the agreement for explanation. However, customers complain that the refund was delayed or not received. Additionally, customers indicate that they have *difficulty contacting the company*.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Just curious.*

Denise,

I will not rush into another purchase of this nature, I value your opinion and appreciate all the advice I've received from this group.  It seems to me that everyone involved asides from a property you may own, ultimately you are at the total mercy of exchange companies or resort developer offers to secure reseravations  unless you rent unwanted weeks from individuals.........am I wrong in deducing this ????  I have read horrid things about class action law suits re. RCI and I hear of weeks for sale for $1 a stay, the whole slambango seems unreliable and unregulated by anyone;  even amongst the users here I see vast differences of what is or maybe correct.  Is there a book like [timeshare for dummies] on this way of travelling so I can grasp gist ????

Dolly


----------



## sally13

*gosh Denise..*

The only one really declaring that you will ALWAYS be able to trade a basic unit ,for a Luxxe unit ..is YOU..

What if Dolly likes to travel to Mexico in the winter months??

Please give her a way ...........so that she can be SURE to travel to the grand Luxxe in the winter...can you do this..she is in Mexico now is she not??

No answers??? Whats your plan grand poobah???she is waiting..we are all waiting for your strategy...

Do not promise her something ..and then say..Oh well,I guess your resort booked up fast!!

You are sounding more and more like the very Mayan salesperson you warn about..!!:hysterical: 

Tell her...she is waiting..



and also..I use rci frequently..I AM aware of thier new resort rating system..and ,grand Bliss....a step UNDER grand luxxe is rated almost the very highest VALUE offered...


----------



## DeniseM

dollydaydream said:


> Denise,
> 
> I will not rush into another purchase of this nature, I value your opinion and appreciate all the advice I've received from this group.  It seems to me that everyone involved asides from a property you may own, ultimately you are at the total mercy of exchange companies or resort developer offers to secure reseravations  unless you rent unwanted weeks from individuals.........am I wrong in deducing this ????



Yes - you can buy a deeded week on the resale market, for a resort you want to visit, during the season you want to visit, and make a reservation and go every year - you are at no one's mercy.  You don't have to ever use an exchange company, if you don't want to, and if you buy resale, you don't deal with the resort developer AT ALL!

Let me give you an example:  We own 2 ocean front weeks on Kauai - this timeshare is selling for $1 on ebay.  I can reserve them 18 mos. out from check-in and every year, we go there for 2 weeks in the summer.  I don't deal with any developer, or exchange company - I send a simple email in Feb. and I'm done.  Couldn't be simpler.



> I have read horrid things about class action law suits re. RCI



That has been over for some time with little or no effect.



> and I hear of weeks for sale for $1 a stay



They aren't for sale for $1 a stay - the deed is for sale for $1.  You still have to pay the regular yearly maintenance fee.  But you are the buyer - it's a buyer's market - it's GREAT to be able to buy a nice timeshare for $1!



> the whole slambango seems unreliable and unregulated by anyone;  even amongst the users here I see vast differences of what is or maybe correct.  Is there a book like [timeshare for dummies] on this way of travelling so I can grasp gist ????



You have found the best place for timeshare info. - TUG.  But there are no quick and easy answers, because we all have different wants, needs, incomes, interests, etc.  There is no "correct" answer - it takes some research to find out what is best for you.

Here are some questions for you to think about and answer here if you wish, to start to narrow down what kind of timesharing would be best for you:

New buyer questions:

1)  Where do you want your home resort to be?
2)  Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
3)  What are your 5 top trade destinations?
4)  How many people do you usually travel with?
5)  Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
6)  Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
7)  Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
8)  How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
9)  How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
10)  Are you a detail oriented planner?
11) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?


----------



## easyrider

John Cummings said:


> My post was about the price of meals at their restaurants.
> 
> Plus your math is terriblly flawed.  It is not 10 weeks. It is 40 weeks over a 10 year period. Go back and read all the posts. That is $1500 /week for a 2700-3000 sq. ft. luxury unit with special amenities.
> 
> You certainly jump to a lot of conclusions without knowing anything about it.



So help out here. A person buys this from Grupo Mayan for 60K. 

They get the right to use 4 weeks a year. Would this mean 4 maintanence fees or about 6k a year in addition to the 60k for buying the contract to do this ? 
60k contract + 60k mf = 120k / 40 = 3k per week or $430.00 per night ?


----------



## DeniseM

easyrider - look at the discussion about this earlier in the thread - it was explained.


----------



## John Cummings

easyrider said:


> So help out here. A person buys this from Grupo Mayan for 60K.
> 
> They get the right to use 4 weeks a year. Would this mean 4 maintanence fees or about 6k a year in addition to the 60k for buying the contract to do this ?
> 60k contract + 60k mf = 120k / 40 = 3k per week or $430.00 per night ?



Take Denise's advice and read the other posts. There is no need to keep rehashing the same old thing.


----------



## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> What if Dolly likes to travel to Mexico in the winter months??



Then she should grab that Christmas Eve week that's available right now!  :whoopie:

Or the winter Getaways for $257 a week are fabulous!

I will get back to you with availability for weeks after Christmas, as soon as it's posted.
*
Seriously - let's say that I was just dying to own at Grand Luxxe:*

First of all, like Dolly - I'd rescind and explore all my options.

I'd keep these things in mind:

1)  At least for a few years, it's likely to be an easy exchange - I would exploit that to the Max. Since we've already seen Thanksgiving and Christmas, I think high season exchanges will be available.

2)  Over time, there will be resales available for far less than retail price - I'd track resales closely.

3)  I'd also watch the following:  owner rentals, Getaways, II exchanges, and SFX exchanges, to look for low cost opportunities to visit the resort.

4)  I would not buy for a minimum of 3-4 years or until the resort is sold out - I'd explore all the other options during that time and do low-cost trades or rentals.

5)  I would not buy at all, unless the other options disappeared - and I don't think that will happen.

6)  I would never buy from the developer - common sense and past history tells us that there will eventually be good deals on resales.

Or - you can just pony up $60,000 and drink the Kool-Aid!


----------



## John Cummings

This thread is getting to be as entertaining as some of the other recent threads.

Isn't TUG wonderful?


----------



## mikenk

easyrider said:


> So help out here. A person buys this from Grupo Mayan for 60K.
> 
> They get the right to use 4 weeks a year. Would this mean 4 maintanence fees or about 6k a year in addition to the 60k for buying the contract to do this ?
> 60k contract + 60k mf = 120k / 40 = 3k per week or $430.00 per night ?



Lots of ways to play with numbers:
- What if the GL owner splits his unit into a 2 bedroom Grand Bliss suite (still luxurious) and a 1 bedroom GB suite for the same MF.
- What if he chooses to rent directly to the golfing community with free golf and massages thrown in. What could he charge for the week?
- if so, what could one afford to pay as an initial investment to make an acceptable ROI as a business.

As long as we choose to only look at ownership within the traditional timeshare model, we really miss a lot of possibilities whether we are looking at it as a business or just vacation fun.

Mike


----------



## easyrider

Denise and John, I did read all the posts. If you don't know I guess you don't know. Im wondering what the nightly cost is to stay in a 2 bed unit when buying this for 60k + mf. You could as easily said the right dollar number if you knew.


----------



## siesta

easyrider said:


> Denise and John, I did read all the posts. If you don't know I guess you don't know. Im wondering what the nightly cost is to stay in a 2 bed unit when buying this for 60k + mf. You could as easily said the right dollar number if you knew.


easyrider, I think you may be going about the math the wrong way.  The way to do it (at least how the TS salesman wants you to do it) is first see what the rack rate is.  for example:


if the weekly rack rate is around $5000 a week, and your MF is $1500 a week(and you get and use 4 a year). It would take around 4 years to break even with a $60k purchase price, assuming the MF increase proportionately to inflation and increased price for accomodations (which you know isn't the case, and a topic the TS salesman won't even mention).

----------------

but when you take into account that you can rent the rooms or exchange into for a lot cheaper than the rack rate, making it more like 20+ years to get your value out of it, not even considering the whole MF increasing issue, purchasing from the developer doesn't add up.  Who knows maybe they can throw enough golf packages in to make it worth while for some people.


----------



## DeniseM

easyrider said:


> Denise and John, I did read all the posts. If you don't know I guess you don't know. Im wondering what the nightly cost is to stay in a 2 bed unit when buying this for 60k + mf. You could as easily said the right dollar number if you knew.



Honest - I don't know - I saw the info. posted, but I didn't study it myself, because I find the $60K developer price to be prohibitive.


----------



## LisaH

easyrider said:


> Denise and John, I did read all the posts. If you don't know I guess you don't know. Im wondering what the nightly cost is to stay in a 2 bed unit when buying this for 60k + mf. You could as easily said the right dollar number if you knew.



Well, I asked in post #84 and I am still waiting for an answer...
It's this simple: let's put spliting unit, golf and massge incentives aside - how much do you pay for each 2BR weekly maintenance fee, or usage fee in 2011? Is it around $1500? I understand Tropical lady's fee might be different from what the OP might pay, but how much is it???


----------



## mikenk

LisaH said:


> Well, I asked in post #84 and I am still waiting for an answer...
> It's this simple: let's put spliting unit, golf and massge incentives aside - how much do you pay for each 2BR weekly maintenance fee, or usage fee in 2011? Is it around $1500? I understand Tropical lady's fee might be different from what the OP might pay, but how much is it???



A simple answer is the usage fee is right at $1500 For the 2 bedroom Grand luxxe villa, somewhat less for the Grand luxxe suite. 

Reality is not quite so simple as we will always split it unless we have three or four adult couples going. We will often also trade the split Luxxe units for more bedrooms at the Grand Bliss and/or the Grand mayan. We get 16 rounds of golf and 2 massages per week per unit.


----------



## Tropical lady

*you're not getting the results you want....*

The figure $60K is being thrown around as a starting point to figure out "break even point", the cost of that plus MF, cost per night, etc.  I know that this amount was stated by Dolly as her buy price for 4 weeks per year in a 2 bdrm on resale.  Not everyone has paid that amount to the developer!
Again, the figures are reflecting only a 10 year useage and this is probably a misunderstanding of her contract since they are usually 99 year RTU.
As Mikenk and I have pointed out, these weeks can be split for double the time too, therefore cutting the MF in half.
Dolly has not corrected any of the information or confirmed that amount for just 10 years is correct.  So while it is interesting to play with numbers to reach an understanding, making assumptions is not going to give you a fair baseline upon which to make a judgement and we simply do not have all the info in this case.
All I can say is that purchase (upgraded) total investment, plus MF, plus weeks in contract, for "expected" useage years (I would like to think I'll use 99 years, but it ain't so), plus ability to lock off, plus benefits/amenities, work for my husband and I.  And, we did not pay that amount.


----------



## mikenk

Tropical lady makes a good point. In my case, that 60K is also not right and the ten years is not right - not sure of how the contract is worded for the OP. Regardless, there is no way to generalize a payoff as it is not a simple lodging only arrangement.

In our case, we always take another couple so we pay about $108 per night for high luxury unit and receive $1200 in golf and other benefits that is real money we always spend when we travel to resorts. That savings alone more than pays for our maintenance fee - and we can do it 6 times a year. For us, it was easy to justify the upfront costs.

And, a point often overlooked, is we are not leaving any financial obligations to our kids of a yearly MF, but we are leaving them the same benefits we have.

One problem on threads like this is Tuggers don't look at the world like this; they are largely bargain shoppers looking to grab lodging weeks cheap that owners (or the developer) deposits for exchange. For me, even a $257 getaway week looks expensive when I add $1200 for the other stuff that I get free as an owner.

Everyone's case is different; trying to make apples and oranges comparisons will always be difficult.

I am heading off today on extensive travel; I will assume this thread will be hopefully just a memory on my return. Good luck on any conclusions.

Mike


----------



## Karen G

mikenk said:


> In our case, we always take another couple so we pay about $108 per night for high luxury unit and receive $1200 in golf and other benefits that is real money we always spend when we travel to resorts. That savings alone more than pays for our maintenance fee - and we can do it 6 times a year. For us, it was easy to justify the upfront costs.


Mike, I know you are pleased with what you have and that's cool.  Just for clarification, is that $108 per couple per night? So if you and your wife go alone is it $216 a night? Is that figure based on just your maintenance fee or have you also factored in your initial cost to buy in? Also, is the nightly rate based on your using just one week? If you do go six times a year, is the rate per week the same? Do you get $1200 in golf and massages for each week that you use?


----------



## sally13

*Hey Mike...*

Christmas week in a 2 bedroom grand luxxe,through II as an even exchange for Denise's (very  nice)..but basic starwood property???are you buying that??

How about an abundance of 2 bedroom Grand Luxxe  winter use($257.) a week ,(last call),type deals out there for Dolly??

Do you think Dolly has a chance of securing Grand Luxxe weeks in this manner on an ongoing basis (or even  just once)??

Sounds like a bunch of baloney to me..sort of like a timeshare spiel...

What says you?

how many total units of Luxxe are there??

how will you feel if you try to book in the first hour and find that Denise has scooped your winter unit for $257. ???Do you think this is probable as Denise  seems to (all-knowingly)spout???







Is Denise's ongoing availability call likely??


----------



## siesta

sally13 said:


> Christmas week in a 2 bedroom grand luxxe,through II as an even exchange for Denise's (very  nice)..but basic starwood property???are you buying that??


 Yes I believe that, because I'm the one that posted the sighting.




> how will you feel if you try to book in the first hour and find that Denise has scooped your winter unit for $257. ???Do you think this is probable as Denise seems to (all-knowingly)spout???


 The better question is how would *YOU* feel after you spent $60k + MF for the "exclusive priv." of staying at the luxxe units, and someone else books the week for $257? Seem to me you may have blinders on.  I learned something in a psychology class that stayed with me for years: When people are presented with information they are not generally pleased to hear, there is often 1 of 2 likely reactions: denial, and/or justification.  I have seen both from you.


----------



## DeniseM

Sally - Every time I try to have a rational discussion with you, I regret it.

Anyone can search II and see the same deposits and Getaways that I do - the facts speak for themselves.

5 years ago you stated the exact same thing - that within a short time, no one would be able to trade into the Mayan resorts - you were 100% wrong.  It's easier than ever to trade into these resorts.  

We are not curing cancer here - it's just timesharing.  You need to take a deep breath and calm down - your tone is offensive.


----------



## mikenk

Karen,

That is $108 per night total for the unit regardless of number; the rate is the same for each week; yes, the $1200 saving is for each week; I actually have more golf I could and would use but wives gets aggravated.

No, I have not factored the initial costs in as I primarily look at it as an ROI calculation - how many years it takes to pay back. I have also looked at it from a rental perspective to golf groups - could be very lucrative, bur so far have preferred to use.

For non golfers, it would have been harder to justify over the Grand Mayan I had before - which is still pretty nice.

Hope this helps clarify.
Mike


----------



## siesta

*one more thought*

and Sally, please don't compare a Westin on one of the most prime beaches/locations in Maui to the parcels of land the mayans sit on, which are often far out of the way, and have unswimmable beaches, and that is precisely why grupo vidante got those huge parcels of land for the price they did.


----------



## Passepartout

In keeping with the title of the thread- something that amazes me due to the history of these discussions. I think the Mayans are downright wonderful resorts. If folks feel they got the value for what they paid, and continue to pay in MFs, every 5-year additional assessments, transportation expenses to/from the resorts, that's wonderful, and I am thrilled for them.

Me, I don't play golf. I don't strip nekkid for strangers to rub me down. Me and mine try to blend in with local people in the community- and that generally, but is not exclusive of waiters, housekeepers, landscapers at the self contained resort. 

The self-contained resort whether it be Mayan, Sandals, Club Med, Marriott, HGVC or any other, just isn't my thing.

However, as Denise, Siesta, and many others have said, I have no difficulty exchanging into that caliber of resort using my decidedly middle-of-the-road week. 

I wish everyone well, and am headed out the door to yet another great TS week. Toodeloo... Jim


----------



## Elli

pittle said:


> Gosh, a lot has gone on since I have been out of town for a few days without a computer!
> 
> Denise, I was at the Mayan Palace Regency in Acapulco in January - this is only the 2nd MPR that is listed in the RCI book, but,  I will say that the name "Regency" was not on either building (we have been to both) - they just say Mayan Palace.  I am also not sure that there will ever be just "Bliss" buildings.  I agree with mikenk that the Bliss just seems to be a MP with different furniture.  The one model that I saw in Puerto Penasco did not impress me at all - white fabric on the sofas, no tubs in the bathrooms (not family friendly if you have small children), fewer drawers in the bedrooms to store your clothing, but the kitchen area had a larger over the cook-top microwave and the sink was on one side which created a larger prep area.  I was not impressed with the Grand Bliss at all.  The kitchen had an island, but there were two under counter refrigerators in the island - I would prefer a larger refrigerator than two large dorm-sized ones.
> 
> I did go to an update breakfast in January and they said that the Argentina location is almost ready to open, but it is NOT a Grand Mayan like we all thought it was going to be - it is a Mansions of the World Resort (HOTEL).  That is the same for the Dominican Republic location.  My personal opinion is that they will not build in Hawaii as they will have too many regulations.
> 
> I *love* the Mayan Palace and the Grand Mayan Resorts.  We purchased our first unit from the developer and then started buying via eBay so that we could have more weeks for less $$.  We have upgraded some of the eBay purchases to a couple of Grand Mayan units.  We saved $$ going this route.  We currently own 4 MP weeks and 2 GM weeks and all have the Vacation Fair weeks and the no pay unless you go feature, plus we have the Profile A designation for our GM weeks.  We are happy with what we have and do not plan to upgrade any more.  Our grown children will have the opportunity to assume our contracts when the 25 year renewal comes up, but if they do not want them, we are done.  I have stated many times that when we are between 79-86, our traveling may slow down.  We do not plan to renew any contracts in our names and definitely do not plan to extend our contracts by upgrading/re-writing any of our contracts.
> 
> PatH is correct that the Grand Bliss in Nuevo has opened.  From what I understand, others are under construction but no specific opening date has been suggested for any of them.



Phyllis, do you or John happen to have the e-mail address for the concierge at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya?  I would like to order shuttle service for this Sat.  Thanks in advance.  Elli


----------



## taffy19

I agree.  No comparison.  I wouldn't swim in the bay no matter where it is except at the Marietas, may be.

We all make mistakes but some have a hard time to accept it.  Enjoy your vacations, Sally.



siesta said:


> and Sally, please don't compare a Westin on one of the most prime beaches/locations in Maui to the parcels of land the mayans sit on, which are often far out of the way, and have unswimmable beaches, and that is precisely why grupo vidante got those huge parcels of land for the price they did.


----------



## pittle

Elli said:


> Phyllis, do you or John happen to have the e-mail address for the concierge at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya?  I would like to order shuttle service for this Sat.  Thanks in advance.  Elli



concierge.cun@grandmayan.com.mx  Here you go!  Have a great time!!!


----------



## John Cummings

mikenk said:


> Tropical lady makes a good point. In my case, that 60K is also not right and the ten years is not right - not sure of how the contract is worded for the OP. Regardless, there is no way to generalize a payoff as it is not a simple lodging only arrangement.
> 
> In our case, we always take another couple so we pay about $108 per night for high luxury unit and receive $1200 in golf and other benefits that is real money we always spend when we travel to resorts. That savings alone more than pays for our maintenance fee - and we can do it 6 times a year. For us, it was easy to justify the upfront costs.
> 
> And, a point often overlooked, is we are not leaving any financial obligations to our kids of a yearly MF, but we are leaving them the same benefits we have.
> 
> One problem on threads like this is Tuggers don't look at the world like this; they are largely bargain shoppers looking to grab lodging weeks cheap that owners (or the developer) deposits for exchange. For me, even a $257 getaway week looks expensive when I add $1200 for the other stuff that I get free as an owner.
> 
> Everyone's case is different; trying to make apples and oranges comparisons will always be difficult.
> 
> I am heading off today on extensive travel; I will assume this thread will be hopefully just a memory on my return. Good luck on any conclusions.
> 
> Mike



I agree with you 100%, especially the comment about bargain shoppers.


----------



## John Cummings

siesta said:


> ...the parcels of land the mayans sit on, which are often far out of the way, and have unswimmable beaches, and that is precisely why grupo vidante got those huge parcels of land for the price they did.



Not true at Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta. The beach is very swimmable. I have swam and body surfed there.


----------



## John Cummings

Elli said:


> Phyllis, do you or John happen to have the e-mail address for the concierge at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya?  I would like to order shuttle service for this Sat.  Thanks in advance.  Elli



Here is the e-mail address:

conciergerm@grandmayan.com.mx


----------



## Pat H

John Cummings said:


> Here is the e-mail address:
> 
> conciergerm@grandmayan.com.mx



Elli tried that one and it was returned undeliverable. I used it a couple of months ago and it worked.

Elli, did you find a working email?


----------



## sally13

*The land of make believe..*

This thread is not really a fair place to debate issues...

Denise has not told Dolly how she is going to Guarantee her,that the unit she fell in love with, will be available to her ,in the winter for 4 to 8 weeks a year..

by avoiding this question with comments such as ..('I really did not follow you')...or( 'this is not curing cancer')...or..the belittling of (everytime I try to have a rational conversation with you Sally ..I regret it')..and the infamous threat of ..calm down..your tone is wrong. (really saying).I can demean ..and avoid answering your question ......

I for one would like Denise to address this issue...

She has advised Dolly..on direction,without really solving the main issue...Dolly loves the Mayan properties ....She would like to stay there in the winter for more then a (LOTTO) week...(if even available ) .and I think this is just sad...

I WANT A PLAN,(for DOLLY)...from Denise...

Everything ,she has posted,was hoping for bad times to continue..hoping 56 (teaser) weeks will be available each year...and the absurd notion that at ANY time in history.. a Grand Luxxe unit will be obtainable for $250. weekly...this is just silly..

Oh and Siesta..I have researched your WESTIN resort...nice..but really (overall) not even in the same line of offerings...sorry...(nice beach though)

Also..very expensive  .. as.well as everything in that part of the world...not really for the weak purse...


----------



## siesta

> Oh and Siesta..I have researched your WESTIN resort...nice..but really (overall) not even in the same line of offerings...sorry...(nice beach though)


 I don't own a westin in hawaii, just a measly sheraton in the desert.


----------



## Karen G

sally13 said:


> This thread is not really a fair place to debate issues...


Then why do you continue to do so? If you have an issue to discuss with Denise, please communicate with her by private message.


----------



## sally13

*well..*

Tug is about ALL sides of the timeshare entity,..is it not??

I just think ,my side should be allowed to be told...thats all..

I have private messaged Denise and she was not what you would call cordial..

I respond to fuzzy facts being told as truth...like.. (you can get this anytime you want)..

I just thought Dolly should know ,(from a Grand Bliss member)..that booking  top tier unit weeks,with low (outside) booking value..is a prayer..at best...

This is not what Denise is hawking...

Also..as Mike has said ..over and over..ownership has many perks..that add up to $$$$ saved...

Does Dolly have a husband or friends that like to golf???or spa??? or does she like first class butler service??..or the no fees unless you use clause??

Denise will have her trying to compete for limited weeks at best and staying in often crappy trades...A nightmare!!

If Dolly has the means ..she deserves the BEST vacation that  will buy...she will not find that in a hit or miss plan..(as Denise is suggesting)..

also again..Denise says she THINKS high season units will be always available..

Quess what..I have been a grand Mayan member(a much larger total unit offering)..then the luxxe....for 12 years....I have learned from expierience..even those units are (sold out)..in the first day of the month of booking ,if not the first 20 minutes of that day... in high season..

I do not know where Denise pulls her info on high season from..but it is not fact..


----------



## Elli

Pat H said:


> Elli tried that one and it was returned undeliverable. I used it a couple of months ago and it worked.
> 
> Elli, did you find a working email?


I was out all aft., and Phyllis (pittle) and Tropical lady were kind enough to pm the address.  Also thanks for your e-mail, Pat.  Will let you know if I get a reply from Grand Mayan using the new e-mail address.  Thanks to everyone who answered and posted.  Elli


----------



## DeniseM

sally13 said:


> And the absurd notion that at ANY time in history.. a Grand Luxxe unit will be obtainable for $250. weekly...this is just silly....
> 
> I do not know where Denise pulls her info on high season from..but it is not fact..



The Grand Luxxe deposits and $256 a week Getaways are listed on the Interval International website right now - it's public information - go look it up yourself.  The deposits are also posted on the TUG Sightings forum where 156 TUG members have already seen them.


----------



## MuranoJo

Anything is game with the exchange systems, and it goes both ways with the food chain.  For instance, South Africa can exchange into HI (well, maybe not Westin, but I wouldn't bet it can't).

IMO ( as a lowly MP owner), Grupo is hurting its owners not only by sales practices, but by dumping 'developer' units into exchange systems.  I use the term 'developer' loosely, meaning after units are sold, they don't pass to an HOA--as Grupo is the owner & developer.  This reduces rental opportunies for owners as well as availability for owner reservations.

Being low on the Grupo food chain, but having holiday weeks that rent for 3-4x the m/f, I'm doing ok and recouped my resale cost in about 4 years with rentals.  And I truly like their product--just not all of their operating strategies.  

Regarding negatives with staying at mega-resorts:  Heck, staying there doesn't prevent us from venturing into the local culture.  In fact, we enjoy the onsite amenities while there, but most of our time is spent outside the resort.


----------



## DeniseM

Karen G said:


> Then why do you continue to do so? If you have an issue to discuss with Denise, please communicate with her by private message.



No thank you.....  it's pointless.

Hopefully, at least we saved Dolly from some serious buyer's remorse.  

Dolly - if you want more info. on the plan I outlined for you, send me a private message or email and I'd be glad to discuss it in detail.  It will save you $59,500


----------



## John Cummings

muranojo said:


> Anything is game with the exchange systems, and it goes both ways with the food chain.  For instance, South Africa can exchange into HI (well, maybe not Westin, but I wouldn't bet it can't).
> 
> IMO ( as a lowly MP owner), Grupo is hurting its owners not only by sales practices, but by dumping 'developer' units into exchange systems.  I use the term 'developer' loosely, meaning after units are sold, they don't pass to an HOA--as Grupo is the owner & developer.  This reduces rental opportunies for owners as well as availability for owner reservations.
> 
> Being low on the Grupo food chain, but having holiday weeks that rent for 3-4x the m/f, I'm doing ok and recouped my resale cost in about 4 years with rentals.  And I truly like their product--just not all of their operating strategies.
> 
> Regarding negatives with staying at mega-resorts:  Heck, staying there doesn't prevent us from venturing into the local culture.  In fact, we enjoy the onsite amenities while there, but most of our time is spent outside the resort.



All resorts give developer weeks to the exchange companies if they have them. I have exchanged into developer weeks at several resorts including Grand Mayan, HGVC/Flamingo, Marriott/Ft. Lauderdale Beach, etc.

The resorts do this to get new prospects for sales. Doesn't work with us because we don't do sales presentations.

Grupo Mayan has a lot of developer weeks because they are very large and have built a lot of new units. The Grand Luxxe is a new product so there are developer weeks. That isn't going to last forever.

When we first started going to the HGVC/Flamingo there were lots of weeks so it was easy to get an exchange. I did 4 exchanges into the HGVC/Flamingo in 1 year. However when they sold out, it became much more difficult to get an exchange. That will happen at that Grand Luxxe as well.

I agree 100% with your last statement. We did lots of activities away from the Grand Mayan, but it is very nice to be able to just enjoy the resort. Our last 2 week stay, we never went off the resort because most everything was shut down because of the swine flu thing. However we didn't feel deprived at all as we enjoyed the resort.


----------



## MuranoJo

John,

Absolutely agree many resorts dump developer weeks into exchange systems to draw new blood, so to speak.

Grupo has an abundance of weeks available for exchange, and I am sure they will dwindle as time goes on. I just empathize for my fellow Grupo owners who own a newer product and now see it for exchange, especially when they may be vying for limited owner week confirmations.  In the perfect world, all owners would get their weeks locked in before exchanges are deposited, but ya know this isn't a perfect world and resorts supposedly make their best estimates as to owner demand vs. open space before bulk depositing.


----------



## John Cummings

muranojo said:


> John,
> 
> Absolutely agree many resorts dump developer weeks into exchange systems to draw new blood, so to speak.
> 
> Grupo has an abundance of weeks available for exchange, and I am sure they will dwindle as time goes on. I just empathize for my fellow Grupo owners who own a newer product and now see it for exchange, especially when they may be vying for limited owner week confirmations.  In the perfect world, all owners would get their weeks locked in before exchanges are deposited, but ya know this isn't a perfect world and resorts supposedly make their best estimates as to owner demand vs. open space before bulk depositing.



One thing that would make me unhappy with owning a Grupo resort is the relatively short time in advance that owners can reserve their week(s). This was discussed before and as I remember, an owner can reserve 6 months in advance. Correct me if I am wrong. As an exchanger through SFX, I can request a week at any Grupo Mayan resort 18 months in advance.


----------



## sally13

*allright...ok...*

so now Denise has promised Dolly, that she can obtain a 2 bedroom Grand Luxxe unit ,with the same packaged perks ..for $500.

how about some reality ..

Dolly...You can get into a lower tier of the Mayan properties on ebay. for roughly 2 to 4 thousand bucks or more after all said and done...Luxxe and Grand Bliss units will almost NEVER come up on resale because of the no M-fee unless you use. clause in these contracts..folks who own have no need to liquidate..it does happen ,but is VERY,  VERY,rare...

These lower tiered units ,while nice are much smaller and not even close to the luxery and sq.footage of the luxxe...you will most likely be locked into a m-fee,even if you cant go...there will be no extra perks,as you lose these on ebay transfer...

The grupo properties are the premier timeshare resorts ,of Mexico...

I suggest ,based on your means,to purchase what works for you..We love the safety and great food ,as well as the secure knowledge,that these properties will look and run like the day we became members...

When you start messing with trades and one time only deals,you open yourself up to a lot of heartache..often you find the resorts you end up with,fall way short of what grupo Mayan offers..

If you love these resorts..do not hesitate on owning...many, many, years of 2 weeks  yearly...at grupo mayan properties,and not one let down in any resort expierience...now THAT is SOLID advice from one who has owned...not someone who thinks she may go in the future and only rarely has visited mexico at all..

As for the many other resorts (some that demand all inclusive)as well...............enjoy the rehashed food choices..mostly those awfull little breakfast meats/ lunch cocktail weenys/dinner soup base wonder ingreidient....nothing gets wasted... ..you will NEVER endure resort shennanigans like this at grupo mayan properties...First class all the way...how do you want to spend your hard earned vacation???...If you love Mexico ,as we do..the choice is simple.....


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Well!  How Comforting To See That Someone Is Getting The Proper Advice Re. Grupo Maya*



DeniseM said:


> You don't have to drive back to the resort - you can AND SHOULD rescind by mail immediately.
> 
> Yes, you can really buy for pennies on the dollar on the resale market - look at these Ads for resales in Mexico - http://realestate.shop.ebay.com/i.h...kw=&_osacat=15897&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
> 
> Look through your purchase papers and see if you can find the instructions for rescission (although they are notorious for leaving them out in Mexico.)
> 
> If not, here is an advice article that can give you some guidance - it was written for another resort, but everything else applies to you:
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493



And I was going to mention other Mexican timeshare as well, although I do not know much about them.  But from what I see the Grupo Mayan are definitely to be kept away from unless "daylight robbery" is your "thing", and you like to be on the receiving end!!!   Well done, Denise!!!



> Be SURE you dispute it with your credit card company immediately, and block any further payments.  Be aware that they may have opened a new credit card Acct. for you - look in your purchase papers.
> 
> I would NOT call the sales office - they will do anything and everything possible to block your rescission.  Even if they TELL you that you don't have the right to rescind in Mexico - YOU DO!  It's the law - even in Mexico.
> 
> Don't delay - it's critical to have it post marked within 5 days of signing the contract.



We could have done with this advice from someone prior to getting involved with those "cheap trip" salesmen in Cancun!


----------



## sally13

*there you have it...*

[Sally - this is getting old.  Feel free to defend your property, but you aren't going to make this personal by starting a poll about who is right and who is wrong.  Please confine the rest of your posts to the topic, and don't make it about people. - DeniseM Moderator]


----------



## DeniseM

Sally - consider this a formal warning.  If you can't follow forum rules and the directives of Moderators, you are going to be suspended from TUG.


----------



## Karen G

*Note to all who are reading this thread*

If at any time you wish to put any other poster on the "Ignore List", just click on User CP on the blue bar at the top of this page and scroll down all the way to the bottom to the Miscellaneous section at the far left.  There you can click Buddy/Ignore lists and enter the name of any poster whose posts you no longer want to see.


----------



## Tropical lady

Dolly,
You started a thread (which is now locked) on Feb 24th about your purchase at Mayan Palace (which turned out to be a GL), a resale through them, 2 bdrm, 2+2 weeks per year for $59000.  Your question was about price which generated 194 replies and 3076 reads, covering all aspects of buying a timeshare from resale vs the developer and you received a gament of info.  Your post did not seem to imply any disatisfaction with the purchase other than you wanted validation for what you paid.  In addition, you then asked about a vacation club and received info/opinions about that.  Now a thread started in 2009 is resurrected as you want to know the outcome of that situation.
Could you please update the people who invested time and gave you info, opinions, as to where you stand with your purchase.....in the process of rescinding and how is it going.....you did not rescind and why......what about the vacation club??  You may be in the middle of a process and that's ok, but just an update...it would be appreciated.    Thanks!!!


----------



## dollydaydream

*my update.............*

Dear Tropical Lady,

I wrote this private message to the Moderator as I didn't know where to turn, I am now not bothered and I no longer feel threatened by that Rose from customer service.

I didn't realise that I left such a 'cliff hanger' amongst the group so I am happy to share this with you.

All good wishes.
Dolly

Originally Posted by dollydaydream 
Dear Karen,

I have recinded my contract but I am concerned about the return of my money, We do not go back to Vancouver until Tuesday 1st March. We are currently just outside Guadalajara in the retirement town of Lake Chapala, I can't wait to get back, this has all been too much I have lost a lot of sleep...........on vacation !!!! go figure. I have limited internet connection there are cafes here but I have been using my blackberry a lot.......probably at terrible expense. I am bothered by that Rose woman from the Mayan Customer Service, I will do as you suggest and have nothing to do with them. Scotiabank require everything in writing, which is no problem. I am reluctant to post anything on the forum because I do not know if legally Mayan can sue me, I know it sounds spineless but I do not know what the laws are. Can you give some advice?

Thank you so much.


Dolly.


----------



## Tropical lady

*Best wishes.....*

Dolly, 
Thanks for the update.  So many times, it seems, someone comes on with a question/concern which generates a host of posts that go off in different directions and many varying opinions.  Still good discussions.  But a majority who start the thread do leave the posters hanging without any response that the replies helped, circumstances changed, etc.  
The request for info was in no way to pressure you to give confidential/personal information, but a general "how is it going"?
It sounds as though you are getting resolution and now can take time to understand timeshares and the different programs.  Thanks again.


----------



## Karen G

Since the original poster on this thread has provided more information on her situation, I'm reopening the thread to add her comments so that maybe we'll have some resolution to her issues.


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - Did you get a response from Grupo Mayan?  What did they say?

Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## DeniseM

For those of you who are interested in visiting one of the Grand Luxxe resorts, there are multiple Getaway weeks available for LX2, (Grand Luxxe, Nuevo Vallarta)  starting at $53 a night, on II.  

Also - see the Sightings Forum for a bulk deposit (exchanges) for this resort.


----------



## Grupo Mayan

*I regret to hear I bothered Dolly*

Dear Readers and Dolly, 

My sole purpose of participating in this forum is to offer help and clarify any concerns anyone may have with their timeshares with us.

I truly regret my attempt to help Dolly was taken out of context. I wish I could have been able to intervene in anyway to help her resolve her issues with us. 

Anyway, this is a humble apology as it was never my intention to bother her at all, as you can see by the message I posted addressed to her. 

As an advocate to Customer Care, I will remain available if anyone needs my assistance at grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com and 1-800-292-9446. We value and respect both our members and non members. Their concerns are very important to us and we are diligently working to resolve any complaints they may have.

Thank you for your time. 

Sincerely, 
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.


----------



## california-bighorn

John Cummings said:


> One thing that would make me unhappy with owning a Grupo resort is the relatively short time in advance that owners can reserve their week(s). This was discussed before and as I remember, an owner can reserve 6 months in advance. Correct me if I am wrong. As an exchanger through SFX, I can request a week at any Grupo Mayan resort 18 months in advance.



Great observation!!!  We usually make our reservations 11-12 months in advance of checkin.


----------



## Tropical lady

Thanks Karen Rose,
For taking the time to make a public post offering the apology to Dolly and, again, providing ways to communicate.
In responding to my request for her status based upon all the responses she received, I was disappointed to see that Dolly used the words "threatened and bothered" during your communication process.  Even though it is not necessarily an accurate description, one's perception is their reality. However when posted, it remains.  Customer Service is a thankless job at best in most cases.
My husband and I are very happy and satisified with Grupo Mayan, starting with a MP and upgrading to the GL.  Others have posted the same response.  We appreciate the upfront approach which you and the company have taken.


----------



## Elli

Elli said:


> I was out all aft., and Phyllis (pittle) and Tropical lady were kind enough to pm the address.  Also thanks for your e-mail, Pat.  Will let you know if I get a reply from Grand Mayan using the new e-mail address.  Thanks to everyone who answered and posted.  Elli


Update:  Just to let everyone know, the new link worked, Grand Mayan replied, and airport pick-up has been arranged. Thanks again.  Elli


----------



## dollydaydream

*Possible missed message*

Thanks for your concern. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Tropical Lady,

I am learning more and more about this fascinating subject, and how untrue that old addage [You get what you pay for] is.......!!!!!! Clearly many people get much more for very much less - I suppose it is a bit like an airline, some passengers are paying top dollar, some are on buddy passes, others travel with miles and many just buy thinking that because online the airline says guaranteed lowest price on their web site that is 'gospel truth' - I suppose it happenes in many industries but one would think that the highly regulated travel related players would be more transparant. I am still curious about this thread, would you know the best way to activate it again or could you advise me of any one who may know what happened to the purchasers.

Thanks Dolly.

PS I will give another update when I hear back from the resort.


----------



## dollydaydream

*Hello again,*

Hi everone,

Thanks for all your support, I will give you an update when I hear back from the resort, the moderator told me that this normally takes a little while. 
In the meantime I am going to do some homework and check out some of the tips I have been given.


Dolly


----------



## dollydaydream

*Tropical Lady is in ERROR*

Some of your comments do not reflect the way we operate, so we will be more than happy to investigate that further as we take those allegations very seriously. 


Tropical Lady, I was under acute duress when the mayan used this tenor, if you re-read my posts and my inital thread It was titled by me saying 

Does anyone have something nice to say [about Mayan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I NEVER made any allegations whatsoever - I do not know what you  infer ???

Dolly


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - I  think you are mixing posters up - the following statement was posted by Karen Rose from Grupo Mayan, not Tropical lady:



Grupo Mayan said:


> Dear Dolly,
> 
> There is a lot of information going on here. I guess I may be able to clarify the specific doubts about your purchase if you contact me directly and provide me your contract details.
> 
> There are a lot of benefits when buying from a developer, so, if I can be of any help to you as a representative of the resorts; kindly contact me at: grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com or by telephone at 1-800-292-9446.
> 
> *Some of your comments do not reflect the way we operate, so we will be more than happy to investigate that further as we take those allegations very seriously. *
> 
> Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.
> 
> All the best,
> Karen Rose
> Customer Support Representative.



Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd accept Karen Rose's help - what do you have to lose?  Part of her job is to do damage control on TUG - it is in her best interest to help you find a satisfactory resolution.

As for "allegations" - the word "allegations" means your side of the story - what you said happened, so of course you made allegations - when you say "this happened to me" that's an allegation.

Are you back home now?  No response from GM?


----------



## dollydaydream

*No mix up.........*

Dear Denise,

I was writing to Tropical Lady, I do not know how to do the quote thing yet, if you read her post she made reference to my communications with Karen Rose............they never took place, remember I was advised not to contact their offices.

Allegations can be construed as 
•The act of alleging.
or
•A statement asserting something without proof.

I am not aware of what I alleged, I found Karen Roses tenor of a threatening nature [which she has now apologised for] for which I am grateful.

That is it.

Dolly


----------



## DeniseM

What you alleged is that you have a very odd friendship with a sales person, including going to church with her.  Since none of us can prove whether it's true or not, it is indeed an allegation.  Your statement is an allegation, until it's been proven to be true.

This is what Karen Rose said:


> Some of your comments do not reflect the way we operate, so we will be more than happy to investigate that further as we take those allegations very seriously.



This is how I would interpret it: * "Some of your story does not agree with the way we usually do business.  I'd be happy to look into it, because we are taking your story very seriously."*

Frankly - I don't see anything threatening about that at all.  

I am not suggesting that you call the office - I'm suggesting that you click on Karen Rose's blue user name and send her an email and ask what she has to offer - that's where I'd start.  If you don't like her offer - don't respond.
*
Please answer this question - are you home in Canada now?*


----------



## dollydaydream

yes I am home in Canada



Thank you 

Dolly


----------



## pjrose

dollydaydream said:


> . . .
> I have recinded my contract but I am concerned about the return of my money . . .
> Dolly.





DeniseM said:


> . . .
> I am not suggesting that you call the office - I'm suggesting that you click on Karen Rose's blue user name and send her an email and ask what she has to offer - that's where I'd start.
> . . .



Why ask what they have to offer?  If Dolly already rescinded, then the ball is in GM's court to follow through with the process of canceling the contract and refunding her money.

And Dolly - just click the little Quote button at the bottom right of the post you want to quote.  That'll open up a new window with the quoted post and room for you to add a new post.  If you want to Quote more than one post, as I did at the top of this one, go to the first post you want to quote and click the "+ button at the right of Quote; nothing will seem to happen, but you can then go to the next post you want to quote and click Quote.


----------



## MuranoJo

PJ,

I'm just chuckling because I always wondered how you seamlessly post two quotes in one reply.  Thanks for the TUG 101 tip.


----------



## pjrose

muranojo said:


> PJ,
> 
> I'm just chuckling because I always wondered how you seamlessly post two quotes in one reply.  Thanks for the TUG 101 tip.



Even after 1,3010 posts there are things to be learned!  It wasn't long ago that I learned how to change the title of a post


----------



## MuranoJo

John Cummings said:


> One thing that would make me unhappy with owning a Grupo resort is the relatively short time in advance that owners can reserve their week(s). This was discussed before and as I remember, an owner can reserve 6 months in advance. Correct me if I am wrong.





california-bighorn said:


> Great observation!!!  We usually make our reservations 11-12 months in advance of checkin.



Depends on the contract.  The older Mayan Palace contracts are indeed 6 mos. (but I know of exceptions during the Swine Flu scare), and some upgrades are 8 mos., others are 12.  There may be more I'm not aware of.


----------



## MuranoJo

pjrose said:


> Even after 1,3010 posts there are things to be learned!  It wasn't long ago that I learned how to change the title of a post



Me, too!  I remember late one night pestering Tug Brian to quickly change a title for me that could have been misleading.  Either he or another mod graciously made the change without asking me where I'd been for 9 years.


----------



## DeniseM

dollydaydream said:


> yes I am home in Canada



I'm curious - *all* your previous posts through post #208 have been posted from *Mexico* - even though you supposedly arrived home on March 1st.

But after I asked you if you were in Canada, you signed off, and then came back about 30 min. later, and for the FIRST TIME, posted from a Canadian Internet Service provider, in post #210.

*How'd you get from Mexico to Canada in 30 Min.?*


----------



## dollydaydream

DeniseM,

I'm too am curious, one thing which could be the explanation is as I mentioned several times I was making my posts from my blackberry, I purchased a SIM card in Mexico which gave me local calling abilities and a Mexican number too.  When you were so preoccupied in finding out my exact location [which I still am trying to understand, presumeably you were already knew the mexican server which I was logged on to, so you were trying to trick me into a lie......???????] perhaps TUG should think about what this says about themselves.  I then answered you from my desktop PC and have now had my SIM card switched back on my Blackberry. 

I have been surprised at the hectoring tone of some of the posts, after the initially supportive comments, and I wanted other opinions.  I didn't like these demands about where I am and when I am home and all.  It is actually quite unsettling, and personally I was not really happy with starting to give such personal information.  My friends here are saying I should be very careful of information I give out about myself over the internet.

Apart from that I want to say this - I asked a simple questions at the start, because I was surprised everything on here seemed so negative, and very soon I was assured by the moderators that I had been scammed and should rescind.  To me, making an "allegation" in this context is a complaint, and I just said what I had experienced, I didn't start out to complain or get a refund.  I didn't post any sort of complaint.  It was my account which led to the allegations by others that I had been scammed.  

My first post was about looking for cheerful news.   Then I find myself being lectured by the moderators on the meaning of words, being urged to give the resorts a chance, and getting "hunted down" over my whereabouts like I did done something wrong.  My friends are saying it's possible that people involved in the group are insiders who are helping the scammers.   I really don't know what to believe now.

I don't like the inference that it's 50/50 I am a liar.  Surely it goes without saying that readers can't generally verify the contents of posts. I don't want to term my account "unproven allegations" - I know that they are true. I started out feeling really welcomed and supported here , but now I am wondering who to trust.  When you are monitoring my whereabouts, it really feels like I am being mistrusted.

I am grafeful for the time spent by various people giving me information, but I did not expect a forum to be so intense like this.  I guess it's another learning curve for me, but I want to try to concentrate on other stuff for a while.  I am truly sorry if I have upset anyone.  My next trip to Mexico is a few months away yet! 

Dolly


----------



## DeniseM

Dolly - I am the last person that would support Grupo Mayan, but the bottom line is that many parts of your story just don't ring true:

-the way you suddenly switched to a Canadian IP

-the odd details of your story - like going to church with the sales person

-the description of the pkg you claimed to have bought is not accurate

-the fact that you called your sales person AFTER being advised not to

-your non-response when people asked over and over for specifics about what you bought

-your paranoid reaction to Karen Rose's offer of help

It simply doesn't add up.... and since we have a regular parade of people on TUG who have a hidden agenda, it made me curious.


----------



## jnjn

*????*

I just jumped to the last page and started reading...  Is it just me or did the Mexico section just start filling up with some really "odd" posters?  Or was it always like this?


----------



## Karen G

jnjn said:


> Is it just me or did the Mexico section just start filling up with some really "odd" posters?


It's just you! 

We've had some interesting and entertaining discussions lately.


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*Having Examined A Lot Of Complaints Websites "lyin' Mayan" Is No Exaggeration*



dollydaydream said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am new to this group and I'm just a guest for now, I recently purchased at the Mayan Palace............I am very concerned to see no positive reports, can anyone reassure me please.
> Dolly



I have been studying these websites for sometime now and the main complaint is that people have been lied to....and how!!!   Ex employees of the Mayan say that seventy per cent of what the reps say during those presentations and negotiations is " B.S. "  They have also said that the Mayan is the worst timeshare company in Latin America regarding their name in the business.  Hence the new thing is that they are using the "Wyndham" as a cover making people believe that they are dealing with a "reputable company" and not the "sleazy Mexican" one, they have a deal with the Wyndham!!!!for renting properties so that buyers believe that they are dealing with Wyndham, the largest timeshare company, I believe and quite well known, not dishonest as a rule.   The name that the Mayan should use is this one "Lyin' Mayan" if they were to be honest about themeslves!!!

I would not recommend anyone to deal with these people, certainly in the UK the Timeshare Consumers Association call them "dangerous people to deal with" and do not recommend anyone to part with any money for anything that they might have on offer!   The BBB has the same idea, with the lowest rating and what more can I say, they have been quoted as having more suits than a clothing warehouse!!!  Warning after warning, nothing is certain with these people.  It is not recommended to have any dealings with them.  It has put me off for life!!!  Not worth the trouble.   Perhaps they could open a company giving intensive course to those who want to learn how to be devious!!! and learn crooked ways.  They have it down to a fine art.   

You need to do your homework before engaging in timeshare really.  There are very few decent ones I am told.  But you have to search them out if you really want timeshare.  I do not, no way, it has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I would never touch it with a barge pole!!!


----------



## Pat H

Vera V Christopher said:


> I have been studying these websites for sometime now and the main complaint is that people have been lied to....and how!!!   Ex employees of the Mayan say that seventy per cent of what the reps say during those presentations and negotiations is " B.S. "  They have also said that the Mayan is the worst timeshare company in Latin America regarding their name in the business.  Hence the new thing is that they are using the "Wyndham" as a cover making people believe that they are dealing with a "reputable company" and not the "sleazy Mexican" one, they have a deal with the Wyndham!!!!for renting properties so that buyers believe that they are dealing with Wyndham, the largest timeshare company, I believe and quite well known, not dishonest as a rule.   The name that the Mayan should use is this one "Lyin' Mayan" if they were to be honest about themeslves!!!
> 
> I would not recommend anyone to deal with these people, certainly in the UK the Timeshare Consumers Association call them "dangerous people to deal with" and do not recommend anyone to part with any money for anything that they might have on offer!   The BBB has the same idea, with the lowest rating and what more can I say, they have been quoted as having more suits than a clothing warehouse!!!  Warning after warning, nothing is certain with these people.  It is not recommended to have any dealings with them.  It has put me off for life!!!  Not worth the trouble.   Perhaps they could open a company giving intensive course to those who want to learn how to be devious!!! and learn crooked ways.  They have it down to a fine art.
> 
> You need to do your homework before engaging in timeshare really.  There are very few decent ones I am told.  But you have to search them out if you really want timeshare.  I do not, no way, it has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I would never touch it with a barge pole!!!



The Mayan sales people are awful but all ts salespeople lie. Bought my first ts in 1997 from the then Fairfield group, same lies. Have been to several presentations at other resort affiliations and most do lie a LOT! The worst was at the Villa Del Mar in Puerto Vallarta. Guy was really nasty and abusive. It's not unique to Mayan. I don't condone it either.


----------



## pjrose

jnjn said:


> I just jumped to the last page and started reading...  Is it just me or did the Mexico section just start filling up with some really "odd" posters?  Or was it always like this?





Karen G said:


> It's just you!
> 
> We've had some interesting and entertaining discussions lately.



It was not always like this.  It's not just you noticing it.


----------



## Karen G

pjrose said:


> It was not always like this.  It's not just you noticing it.


 I was joking, of course, in my response.


----------



## pjrose

Karen G said:


> I was joking, of course, in my response.



I thought so.....but chimed in just in case someone missed that!


----------



## Karen G

pjrose said:


> I thought so.....but chimed in just in case someone missed that!



Just for clarification:  If I put a  , then I'm saying something with a smile and in a pleasant tone of voice.

If I put a  , then I'm saying something with a big grin and hoping to get a laugh.


----------



## jnjn

*Going to Grand Mayan 3/19 to 3/26*

Well...With all these great Mayan reviews, I am going to NV Grand Mayan in 2 weeks.  I may even run into some future "guest" posters.  Better get ready Mods......Spring Break may bring them in the masses!!


----------



## John Cummings

sally13 said:


> ...Luxxe and Grand Bliss units will almost NEVER come up on resale because of the no M-fee unless you use. clause in these contracts..folks who own have no need to liquidate..it does happen ,but is VERY,  VERY,rare...
> .....



That is not true. Out of interest, I did a search for Grand Luxxe resales. I found several Grand Luxxe resales on "sellmytimesharenow.com", "MyResortNetwork.com", "Redweek.com", and other web sites. The prices vary all over the place from $14,999 to $180,000.


----------



## Pat H

Well, I'm off to the GM NV in a couple of hours with the "girls". See ya!


----------



## DeniseM

John Cummings said:


> That is not true. Out of interest, I did a search for Grand Luxxe resales. I found several Grand Luxxe resales on "sellmytimesharenow.com", "MyResortNetwork.com", "Redweek.com", and other web sites. The prices vary all over the place from $14,999 to $180,000.



No, it's not true, and cheap rentals and trades are abundant as well - the facts speak for themselves.


----------



## mikenk

John Cummings said:


> That is not true. Out of interest, I did a search for Grand Luxxe resales. I found several Grand Luxxe resales on "sellmytimesharenow.com", "MyResortNetwork.com", "Redweek.com", and other web sites. The prices vary all over the place from $14,999 to $180,000.



There is some apples and oranges comparisons going on here that should be clarified

Anyone that buys a Luxxe unit from the company gets the unit to use and a whole host of amenities (no mf unless you use, free golf, free massages, bonus weeks, free for seniors after a certain age, etc.). You can rent or transfer but not sell these amenities.

The only thing that transfers on a sale is the right to use the unit for the weeks specified - no amenities or bonuses. People need to realize that when comparing developer sales with resales. I am not suggesting one is better or worse - just different. People might not want the contract I have, but you can not buy the stuff in my contract on the resale market.

Realistically, except in dire financial conditions, I can't imagine why anyone would sell something of real vacation value for pennies on the dollar - when it costs them virtually nothing to keep it. I know it happens - but hard to understand the logic.

Mike


----------



## DeniseM

mikenk said:


> The only thing that transfers on a sale is the right to use the unit for the weeks specified - no amenities or bonuses.



Some people don't play golf or want massages and other resort activities, so a resale would be a better value for them.



> Realistically, except in dire financial conditions, I can't imagine why anyone would sell something of real vacation value for pennies on the dollar - when it costs them virtually nothing to keep it. I know it happens - but hard to understand the logic.



In this economy, there are a lot of nice timeshares on the resale market and there are many reasons someone might have to sell:

-Divorce 
-Death of the owner
-Old age
-Poor health
-No one in the family who wants to inherit the week
-Fears about the situation in Mexico


----------



## mikenk

DeniseM said:


> Some people don't play golf or want massages and other resort activities, so a resale would be a better value for them.



Which is exactly what I said. If someone just wants a luxxe room in a traditional timeshare contract. (yearly MF regardless whether you use) and none of the bonuses; go for a resale.

In my observation on why people usually sell timeshares, the primary reason is to get out from under the yearly obligation of MF's - not to make money. Since most Luxxe owners only pay MF if they use, then that problem does not exist for Luxxe owners. My kids would be very upset if we ever sold since they will never inherit any obligation - just the benefits.

INHO, people buying or selling Luxxe contracts better do their homework to understand all the ramifications - it is not as simple as a typical timeshare sale.

Mike


----------



## DeniseM

mikenk said:


> Since most Luxxe owners only pay MF if they use, then that problem does not exist.



What if the sellers bought resale themselves - wouldn't they have to pay MF regardless?  So maybe they are selling to get out from under the MF - for what could be a variety of reasons.


----------



## mikenk

DeniseM said:


> What if the sellers bought resale themselves - wouldn't they have to pay MF regardless?  So maybe they are selling to get out from under the MF - for what could be a variety of reasons.



True. For that very reason, I would think anyone buying a Luxxe unit on resale would be much more likely to want to resale than someone having bought from the developer. Personally, I would never buy any timeshare anywhere at any price that carried with it a substantial obligatory MF. In my simple view, that is pure debt.

Mike


----------



## DeniseM

mikenk said:


> True. For that very reason, I would think anyone buying a Luxxe unit on resale would be much more likely to want to resale than someone having bought from the developer. Personally, I would never buy any timeshare anywhere at any price that carried with it a substantial obligatory MF. In my simple view, that is pure debt.
> 
> Mike



How many years of MF's could you pay with what you paid upfront?

Please note that I also bought my first timeshare from the developer, so I am not criticizing you, I just think it's important to explore all the options.

Do legal heirs inherit all the rights of developer ownership, just as if they had purchased from the developer themselves?


----------



## mikenk

DeniseM said:


> How many years of MF's could you pay with what you paid upfront?
> 
> Please note that I also bought my first timeshare from the developer, so I am not criticizing you, I just think it's important to explore all the options.
> 
> Do legal heirs inherit all the rights of developer ownership, just as if they had purchased from the developer themselves?



I actually bought originally a Grand Mayan unit on resale and then upgraded to the Grand Luxxe to get the luxury, more room, and all the amenities. I calculated my cost to benefit based on how long it would take to pay back my investment from my then current GM ownership. For me, it was quite easy to justify; for others, it would be different - but one does need to explore the options after truly understanding them. Assuming that a resale buy and a developer buy are always one and the same would be incorrect.

Yes, my heirs get all the amenities at no cost to them. 

Mike


----------



## Carol C

jnjn said:


> Well...With all these great Mayan reviews, I am going to NV Grand Mayan in 2 weeks.  I may even run into some future "guest" posters.  Better get ready Mods......Spring Break may bring them in the masses!!



:rofl:  That's funny, the "guest" posters bit! As for the original topic, I have something good to say...the resort has the most beautiful grounds/landscaping of any resort I've ever been to. Something akin to a botanical garden. Worth the price of admission, even if they do have a crummy "beach".


----------



## jnjn

Looking forward to it.  Of course, I will NOT be attending a TS presentation.  But being in sales, I think it could be humorous!


----------



## mikenk

jnjn said:


> Looking forward to it.  Of course, I will NOT be attending a TS presentation.  But being in sales, I think it could be humorous!



Actually, anyone who is aware to the realities of the timeshare world will have no problem with defeating the sales presentation - except for the lost time of course.

Mike


----------



## John Cummings

mikenk said:


> There is some apples and oranges comparisons going on here that should be clarified
> 
> Anyone that buys a Luxxe unit from the company gets the unit to use and a whole host of amenities (no mf unless you use, free golf, free massages, bonus weeks, free for seniors after a certain age, etc.). You can rent or transfer but not sell these amenities.
> 
> The only thing that transfers on a sale is the right to use the unit for the weeks specified - no amenities or bonuses. People need to realize that when comparing developer sales with resales. I am not suggesting one is better or worse - just different. People might not want the contract I have, but you can not buy the stuff in my contract on the resale market.
> 
> Realistically, except in dire financial conditions, I can't imagine why anyone would sell something of real vacation value for pennies on the dollar - when it costs them virtually nothing to keep it. I know it happens - but hard to understand the logic.
> 
> Mike



My purpose in posting that was NOT to compare resales vs buying from the developer. I fully understand why people like yourself buy the Grand Luxxe from the developer to get the amenities and bonuses. I was simply replying to Sally13's post where she stated that Grand Luxxe resales are almost non-existent.


----------



## mikenk

John Cummings said:


> My purpose in posting that was NOT to compare resales vs buying from the developer. I fully understand why people like yourself buy the Grand Luxxe from the developer to get the amenities and bonuses. I was simply replying to Sally13's post where she stated that Grand Luxxe resales are almost non-existent.



John,
Yes, I understood the intent of your post and you are exactly right that these Luxxe units are available on the resale market. I just wanted to point out that what people buy on resale is not the same thing as what people buy from the developer as this is not the usual case. People just need to do their homework before buying from anyone. 

Mike


----------



## Vera V Christopher

*If You Look At Other Websites You Will See More!*



dollydaydream said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am new to this group and I'm just a guest for now, I recently purchased at the Mayan Palace............I am very concerned to see no positive reports, can anyone reassure me please.
> Dolly



SEEING IS BELIEVING!!!!

Perhaps it is because the BBB and Timeshare Consumers Association, plus the thousands of complaints on the other websites are all true, Dolley!!!!!  Ever thought of that!!!!?????


----------



## sally13

*Hey!!....*

What ever happened to Dolly????


----------



## MuranoJo

sally13 said:


> What ever happened to Dolly????



Haven't heard from her for some time (that happens all the time here, LOL--someone starts an innocent thread and it balloons into something else).

Hope all worked out for her.


----------



## Passepartout

Oops, I was thinking about Vera. Nevermind.


----------



## dollydaydream

*I'm Still here !!!!*

Hi Everyone,

I have been travelling and am now in Europe with my husband visiting family, however I have just saw Sally's and Muranojo's question, so I thought I would post.

why oh why didn't ANYONE tell me about this thread ????
I know I am to blame but now I am in a double dillema.

*Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61829* 

From now on I am going to post my updates on this thread.

Dolly


----------



## Zib

We've been Mayan owners for about 20 years and upgraded to Grand a few years ago.  However I am VERY unhappy with Grand in NV.  We have been there 4 years in a row and have ALWAYS been assigned a unit in the back  that looks directly into the GARAGE!!!  We have never been able to get them to change us to a front unit or at least farther down so we'd look at the golf course.  We WERE thinking of an upgrade this year but when we got the "garage unit" again the FOURTH time in a row, we decided "no way" do we want to upgrade to probably spend another week looking at the garage again!! We go to Nuevo and P.V. every year but I think we will rent our Mayan weeks next year and stay in our other VDP Flamingos weeks.  We always get a unit with a gorgeous view when we are at Flamingos.  So good-by Grand Mayan and their "garage unit view"  Can you tell I'm mad at them???


----------



## John Cummings

Zib said:


> We've been Mayan owners for about 20 years and upgraded to Grand a few years ago.  However I am VERY unhappy with Grand in NV.  We have been there 4 years in a row and have ALWAYS been assigned a unit in the back  that looks directly into the GARAGE!!!  We have never been able to get them to change us to a front unit or at least farther down so we'd look at the golf course.  We WERE thinking of an upgrade this year but when we got the "garage unit" again the FOURTH time in a row, we decided "no way" do we want to upgrade to probably spend another week looking at the garage again!! We go to Nuevo and P.V. every year but I think we will rent our Mayan weeks next year and stay in our other VDP Flamingos weeks.  We always get a unit with a gorgeous view when we are at Flamingos.  So good-by Grand Mayan and their "garage unit view"  Can you tell I'm mad at them???



I don't blame you for being mad. We got Ocean Front View on the top floor of the middle Grand Mayan building at NV during the busiest 2 weeks of the year and we are not owners. We exchanged through SFX.


----------



## Tropical lady

*Interesting observation?*

Zib,
I would be very upset too with the locations of your past reservations.  If it happens again, Customer Service/Concierge should resolve this situation and if not, I would go directly to Member Services for resolution and would not take "no" for an answer!.

Out of curiosity I reviewed this thread from the start.  Dolly initially asked for validation of her purchase based upon negative reports she read.  The first posts did reassure her about the resort and others spoke of the great vacations they experienced.  Then the info was directed to discussion about developer vs resale.  Now it is suggested to rescind and look for resale.  Many posts were devoted to cost analysis, but based upon questionable details of Dolly's purchase.  In post #74 Karen Rose requests Dolly to contact her to offer help.  By #115 Dolly seems to have set aside the experience with Grupo Mayan and is asking for opinions of a Travel Club.  #190 shows Vera involvement and her opinion.  NOTE: #217 Dolly questions TUG's suggestions noting all she asked were some simple questions and now she was assured that she had been scammed.  I thought that this post was interesting and was a complete change from her previous thoughts!!  It had been suggested that she communicate with Karen which she never did blaming TUG for telling her not to call.....she got mixed up about this.  In the end, Dolly's #247 has still not told us if she ever communicated with Karen and if there is resolution.
Maybe of no interest to anyone else here, but it shows the twists and turns of a long thread from the initial question to 250 posts later.


----------



## pittle

Zib - I agree with Tropical Lady, you should check with the Concierge and/or Customer Service.  That said, we often *request* units overlooking the golf course and parking garage in either Acapulco or Nuevo as after a day in the sun, we like shade!  We have seen many sunsets and the decks facing the ocean are hot in the late afternoon.  Besides, we love to "people watch" and like to watch the dynamics of the employees as they come and go.


----------



## pjrose

Tropical lady said:


> . . .
> 
> Out of curiosity I reviewed this thread from the start.  . . .



Interesting analysis!


----------



## curtbrown

Zib said:


> We've been Mayan owners for about 20 years and upgraded to Grand a few years ago.  However I am VERY unhappy with Grand in NV.  We have been there 4 years in a row and have ALWAYS been assigned a unit in the back  that looks directly into the GARAGE!!!



We're owners too, and once or twice over the last 4-5 years we've been put on the back side of the GM in Nuevo Vallarta as well.  However, each time it has been when we've booked our time a couple months after the time initially became available for booking (i.e.- we were booking 1-2 months after all of the other owners booked their time).  While we would have preferred to have had an ocean view, it was our own fault for booking late, and we were just happy to be getting away to enjoy Mexico, no matter what the view.  When booking the popular Winter months, we've found you really need to be on the phone or on the website right when the weeks come available or you may be out of luck.

One of the other things that may be making it tough to get a view room is that in the last few years, the Grand Luxxe & Grand Bliss owners have been put into the GM buildings until adequate inventory in those resorts is available.  That cuts down the number of available ocean view units as well.  Since they've invested more money in the program, and because typically all contracts spell out that specific views or locations can't be guaranteed, sometimes it's a little tough to get exactly what you want.

Curt


----------



## John Cummings

curtbrown said:


> We're owners too, and once or twice over the last 4-5 years we've been put on the back side of the GM in Nuevo Vallarta as well.  However, each time it has been when we've booked our time a couple months after the time initially became available for booking (i.e.- we were booking 1-2 months after all of the other owners booked their time).  While we would have preferred to have had an ocean view, it was our own fault for booking late, and we were just happy to be getting away to enjoy Mexico, no matter what the view.  When booking the popular Winter months, we've found you really need to be on the phone or on the website right when the weeks come available or you may be out of luck.
> 
> One of the other things that may be making it tough to get a view room is that in the last few years, the Grand Luxxe & Grand Bliss owners have been put into the GM buildings until adequate inventory in those resorts is available.  That cuts down the number of available ocean view units as well.  Since they've invested more money in the program, and because typically all contracts spell out that specific views or locations can't be guaranteed, sometimes it's a little tough to get exactly what you want.
> 
> Curt



Do you ask for a particular location when you check-in? We always ask for a particular location and have always gotten it at both GM - Nuevo Vallarta and GM - Riviera Maya. As I said, we are exchangers through SFX.


----------



## curtbrown

You can ask for a location at check-in (and they will generally try to accommodate), but there are no guarantees, even as an owner.  It's based on availability and also when it was booked (at least that's what we've been told).

Curt


----------



## Zib

Yes, I know I've been told that WHEN you book has a lot to do with it, but I don't think that's true because EVERY year I have booked, I have gotten up in the wee hours (4:00am) of the morning on the FIRST day bookings opened to start booking for that month and have booked very early in the day (all four years!) So, I guess they don't like us.  And I'm not crabby or demamding with them.  I try to be reasonable and polite because I realize that you get more response with sugar than vinegar, but no luck for us.  It's probably true that they make room for the Luxx & Bliss people first, as we do go in high times.  I think I may try Cabo next time.  I'm not too fond of Cabo but I think I'd like to try San Jose Del Cabo, maybe.


----------



## MuranoJo

curtbrown said:


> One of the other things that may be making it tough to get a view room is that in the last few years, the Grand Luxxe & Grand Bliss owners have been put into the GM buildings until adequate inventory in those resorts is available.  That cuts down the number of available ocean view units as well.  Since they've invested more money in the program, and because typically all contracts spell out that specific views or locations can't be guaranteed, sometimes it's a little tough to get exactly what you want.
> 
> Curt


Ok, just to vent-not directed to Curt, and I am sure some won't agree with me, but this is one thing that ticks me off.

Frankly, I don't care how much money the owners of new levels pay--I just think that if they pay for a certain product, and rooms aren't available, they wait til they are.

Owners in lower levels have been helping to fund this expansion for years and we get pushed out of the way to give overflow accommodations to the new level owners.   Meanwhile, as others have posted here, Luxxe developer units are posted for exchange or cheap rentals.


----------



## mikenk

muranojo said:


> Frankly, I don't care how much money the owners of new levels pay--I just think that if they pay for a certain product, and rooms aren't available, they wait til they are.
> 
> Owners in lower levels have been helping to fund this expansion for years and we get pushed out of the way to give overflow accommodations to the new level owners.   Meanwhile, as others have posted here, Luxxe developer units are posted for exchange or cheap rentals.



Luxxe owners do have in their contracts that they can exchange for more rooms at the other resorts. However, in general, they have to do so on the same time window as the owners of those resorts; but regardless, it is more people seeking the same times.

I am extremely concerned about your second point as it does seem that Grupo Vidanta is dumping developer weeks to the exchange companies even for prime weeks. I have no problem and actually support  this for weeks not booked by owners or for slow times, but it seems that they do it early and in so doing deprive owners from access. This is just wrong. 

I will be visiting NV in a few weeks; This is at the top of my list of complaints that I will be pursuing.

Mike


----------



## John Cummings

mikenk said:


> I am extremely concerned about your second point as it does seem that Grupo Vidanta is dumping developer weeks to the exchange companies even for prime weeks. I have no problem and actually support  this for weeks not booked by owners or for slow times, but it seems that they do it early and in so doing deprive owners from access. This is just wrong.
> 
> Mike



They apparently dump them very early as I have gotten exchanges to Grand Mayan through SFX as early as 15 months in advance. They had the weeks available when I requested them. That means they had the developer weeks at least 15 months in advance and they were prime weeks. I think their main concern is getting new sales prospects rather than making their owners happy.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

John Cummings said:


> I think their main concern is getting new sales prospects rather than making their owners happy.



Captain Renault would be shocked if he knew of this.


----------



## mikenk

John Cummings said:


> They apparently dump them very early as I have gotten exchanges to Grand Mayan through SFX as early as 15 months in advance. They had the weeks available when I requested them. That means they had the developer weeks at least 15 months in advance and they were prime weeks. I think their main concern is getting new sales prospects rather than making their owners happy.



Unfortunately, I think that is true. I believe Grupo Vidanta needs to be a increasingly careful with this strategy as it is clearly aggravating an increasing number of owners, as evidenced on other more focused websites. 

Realistically, as an owner, I like the strategy idea of keeping the resorts full during low seasons. It keeps revenue flowing and the restaurants all open -  but not at the expense of the owners. 

One thing GV is good at is is changing policies and strategies that are not working; I suggest this is one policy worth addressing and changing. 

Mike


----------



## rpennisi

please remove my post.


----------



## curtbrown

muranojo said:


> Frankly, I don't care how much money the owners of new levels pay--I just think that if they pay for a certain product, and rooms aren't available, they wait til they are.
> 
> Owners in lower levels have been helping to fund this expansion for years and we get pushed out of the way to give overflow accommodations to the new level owners.   Meanwhile, as others have posted here, Luxxe developer units are posted for exchange or cheap rentals.



I'm not saying it is right, but preference DOES seem to go to the Owners with the larger portfolios.  

But owners in the "lower levels" should understand that many (probably most) of the "new" higher level owners came up from the "lower levels" through upgrades over the years and have been paying for the expansion all those years as well.  Many of them have been Owners since the very beginning.  Now that they own one of the higher levels, the large amounts of money they are paying, initially through their large purchase price, and also annually through higher annual MF's, go a long way to pay for the upgraded grounds and golf courses that everyone enjoys.  Without that additional money, there would be very little real improvement to the resort, just a continuation of status quo, via routine maintenance and redecoration of the units.

But, I have mixed feelings about the developer weeks - I understand that the Developer holds all unsold inventory, and can do what they want with them and they are not subject to a fixed lead time like the Owner's contract has built into it.  The big problem comes in  during the high demand times, when owners could easily fill 100% (or more) of the units.  However, since the developer owns a large percentage, 100% of the inventory is not available to the Owners.  Someone will always be left out, while "non-owners" can easily book the Developer weeks.  It just doesn't seem right.  On the other hand, without the developer bringing in new potential buyers (with their constant influx of money), the resorts would cease to operate.  It's a double edged sword.

Just my $0.02

Curt


----------



## flexible

Zib said:


> Yes, I know I've been told that WHEN you book has a lot to do with it, but I don't think that's true because EVERY year I have booked, I have gotten up in the wee hours (4:00am) of the morning on the FIRST day bookings opened to start booking for that month and have booked very early in the day (all four years!) So, I guess they don't like us.  And I'm not crabby or demamding with them.  I try to be reasonable and polite because I realize that you get more response with sugar than vinegar, but no luck for us.  It's probably true that they make room for the Luxx & Bliss people first, as we do go in high times.  I think I may try Cabo next time.  I'm not too fond of Cabo but I think I'd like to try San Jose Del Cabo, maybe.



How many months can you reserve in advance?
Do you have Profile A benefits?

We have Profile A Status with $120K equity according to Mayan. The last rep we spoke to explained that we can keep Profile A status with any contract we upgrade to. I asked how Profile A status was/is obtained. He said they no longer offer it. But when we obtained it we had 40K equity in a 2 + 2 contract and purchasing another contract for 4 + 4 with 80K equity qualified our contract for Profile A benefits (12 months advance reservation, room location preference, fruit plates in the room when we arrive etc). At that time a letter was sent to owners with $50,000 or more in equity of developer contracts (not resale) explaining their new status as "Profile A." Later $100,000 equity was required to reach Profile A status. Later they no longer offered it.

My concern is that higher level owners GL, GLV, GB, GM etc can downgrade to lower level units (and more of them) and possibly make it difficult for us to get our MP reservations. The rep said that wouldn't happen. And if we upgrade to GM, we would have a Profile A advantage over the non Profile A owners reserving GM.


----------



## flexible

John Cummings said:


> Do you ask for a particular location when you check-in? We always ask for a particular location and have always gotten it at both GM - Nuevo Vallarta and GM - Riviera Maya. As I said, we are exchangers through SFX.



Is the location/dates you request your unit consider high demand or just a unit you happen to like?


----------



## flexible

Pat H said:


> As far as I know, the Bliss is not going to be built. I think there is a Grand Bliss building completed but I am not sure at which location.




NV Nuevo Vallarta.


----------



## John Cummings

flexible said:


> Is the location/dates you request your unit consider high demand or just a unit you happen to like?



High demand for both dates and unit location. Ocean view upper floor for GM - Nuevo Vallarta, Building 1, 2, or 7 3rd floor facing lake for GM - Riviera Maya.


----------



## curtbrown

One other thing that hasn't been brought up in the discussion regarding is that the view and the location of the room you end up with may be affected by the Multi-Day Check-in policy.

Because they offer check-in on Fri / Sat / Sun / Mon, there is a limited number of units coming available on any given day.  For example, if you check-in on a Friday, there may not be a view availability until the following day.  They can only give out the rooms that are available on the day of your check-in - if none are available, they can't give you what they don't have.  In other resorts, where everyone checks in on the same day, ALL of the view rooms would be available on that day (with the exception of the rooms where people are staying for multiple weeks).  

This last December, we checked into the Grand Bliss and were put in a unit overlooking the construction on the golf course.  We had originally reserved a GM unit on the first day they came available to reserve (initially they didn't have a firm opening date for GB).  As soon as we heard the GB would be opening in Nov. '11, we called and got our early Dec. reservation moved to the GB building.  Upon check-in, and even though we had booked our room at the earliest day possible, we were told that no ocean view rooms were available because many of the rooms in the building weren't completed yet.  We took golf course view at that point, and were then given the option of moving to an OV room the next day after another guest checked out.  So, as you can see, the availability is reduced on any given day due to the staggered check-ins.  Just thought I'd throw that into the mix too...

Curt


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## Tropical lady

Curt, 
You are correct about availability vs day of check in.  I'm pleased to see that you did get into a better location the next day. That has happened to us in other resorts, but not being an owner there was never the option to move when it became available, even tho making the request.  In fact one building had just been renovated (almost empty) and we were placed in the one that was not and almost unacceptable "because they had to keep the unit in case the owner showed up".  
We could not get into the GB during your same time and stayed in the GM, 8th floor, ocean view......spectacular!  Even tho these reservations were made under a GB contract, once they found out we were now GL owners, they could not do enough.


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## curtbrown

Tropical lady said:


> We could not get into the GB during your same time and stayed in the GM, 8th floor, ocean view......spectacular!  Even tho these reservations were made under a GB contract, once they found out we were now GL owners, they could not do enough.



Sorry we took your room @ GB... LOL  

Curt


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## Pat H

I did notice a change at the GM NV in the second bedroom this year. It now has 2 double (might be queen) beds instead of a king. Makes the room look smaller but I like having the extra bed.


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