# Harborside Resort...how strict?



## iluvwdw (Jan 17, 2006)

I have a week I am renting for May this year.  It is a 1 bedroom Deluxe Unit.  The Max Occupancy is 4.  The person I would like to rent to, has 4 children (ages 3,5,7,12).  When I called, they said that 5 can be in the room only if one child is in a crib.  And her husband MAY or MAY NOT be going with her, so that would be TWO extra!

What do you all think?  Should I tell this woman FORGET IT, that they shouldn't bother because there are too many people for the room?   When I have gone, I have had people in my room that I never checked in at the front desk, so they didn't even know they were there. 

Opinions??  

THANKS!


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## dgriffin7 (Jan 17, 2006)

*I would decline.*

Regardless of any warnings you give this person, if they are not able to access the property they will present problems for you.  This is against the occupancy rules even without the husband.  

You also run the risk of their realizing late when you can't rerent that 6 people in a one bedroom will not work for them.

My suggestion is to run, don't walk, from this one.


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## iluvwdw (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for the info!  Actually, if her hubby doesn't go and her little one is in a crib, they said it was fine.  (I called Starwood...they said 4 people plus a crib)  But if her hubby DOES end up going, then I don't know what would happen!  

I guess I might have to find another buyer...oh well!


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## debraxh (Jan 17, 2006)

I think it's 4 people plus crib in a deluxe unit because there's not enough space for a rollaway.  If the husband went, where would the "extra" child sleep anyway?

Although I would rent to them if I were assured only the 5 would be going, I would be hesitant under these circumstances.  If you do decide to go ahead, be sure the maximum occupancy limit is highlighted in your rental agreement and that they're responsible for any repercussions if they exceed the limit.


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## arlene22 (Jan 17, 2006)

It will not be comfortable, but Harborside will not give you a problem. Think about bringing your own aerobed.

Also, phase one units are larger than phase two units. Do you know which one you have rented?

~Arlene


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## skim118 (Jan 17, 2006)

iluvwdw said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info!  Actually, if her hubby doesn't go and her little one is in a crib, they said it was fine.  (I called Starwood...they said 4 people plus a crib)  But if her hubby DOES end up going, then I don't know what would happen!
> 
> I guess I might have to find another buyer...oh well!




Are you an owner in Harborside ?  Is access to the Atlantis pools controlled by "wrist-bands" that the front-desk will have to provide ?

Sara


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## mariawolf (Jan 17, 2006)

The front desk does not hand out the wristbands but I have to say on this last trip when we checked in at the towel/wristband stations throughout the resort they did ask how many wristbands we were getting and seemed to use our cards to note that--I don't know that it matters or not but I think more than 4 + crib would be pretty tight.


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## sharktzu (Jan 17, 2006)

How much does it cost to enter the Atlantis water park if your staying at harborside?


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## arlene22 (Jan 17, 2006)

sharktzu said:
			
		

> How much does it cost to enter the Atlantis water park if your staying at harborside?



It's included.


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## arlene22 (Jan 17, 2006)

mariawolf said:
			
		

> The front desk does not hand out the wristbands but I have to say on this last trip when we checked in at the towel/wristband stations throughout the resort they did ask how many wristbands we were getting and seemed to use our cards to note that--I don't know that it matters or not but I think more than 4 + crib would be pretty tight.



I think your limit here is space, not what Harborside will allow. I recommend that you ask the owner from whom you are renting to request a corner unit. They are larger and you will have more space. The owner should call Starwood now to request it, and also call the front desk one week prior to checkin to request it. That may get you the extra space you need for that one more person.


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## DeniseM (Jan 17, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> I think your limit here is space, not what Harborside will allow. I recommend that you ask the owner from whom you are renting to request a corner unit. They are larger and you will have more space. The owner should call Starwood now to request it, and also call the front desk one week prior to checkin to request it. That may get you the extra space you need for that one more person.



The OP is the owner - she is wondering if she wants to rent her week to someone who wants to exceed the number of people allowed in the unit...


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## skim118 (Jan 18, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> The OP is the owner - she is wondering if she wants to rent her week to someone who wants to exceed the number of people allowed in the unit...



The OP is a SVN exchanger into Harborside, according to her posts in December.  Does SVN allow rentals on exchanges ?


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## DeniseM (Jan 18, 2006)

skim118 said:
			
		

> The OP is a SVN exchanger into Harborside, according to her posts in December.  Does SVN allow rentals on exchanges ?



Good question - I don't think so.


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## arlene22 (Jan 18, 2006)

skim118 said:
			
		

> The OP is a SVN exchanger into Harborside, according to her posts in December.  Does SVN allow rentals on exchanges ?



Oh, you're right. Sorry, misread the post. And I agree, SVN exchangers should not be renting out their exchanged units. It's not fair and it's against the rules. And now that it's been posted on a public forum...


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## mjs (Jan 18, 2006)

It may not be fair, but it is not against the rules to rent out SVN exchanges.  I would say about 1/2 of the rental son redweek/myresortnetwork for Harborside are exhanges that have already been made, or that they will try to get for you.
Mark


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## arlene22 (Jan 18, 2006)

mjs said:
			
		

> It may not be fair, but it is not against the rules to rent out SVN exchanges.  I would say about 1/2 of the rental son redweek/myresortnetwork for Harborside are exhanges that have already been made, or that they will try to get for you.
> Mark



I was surprised to hear this! When we purchased we were told that SVN exchanges cannot be rented. But when I looked today for the rule prohibiting it, it wasn't there. Should be, but isn't. Thanks for the clarification.


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## iluvwdw (Jan 19, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> Oh, you're right. Sorry, misread the post. And I agree, SVN exchangers should not be renting out their exchanged units. It's not fair and it's against the rules. And now that it's been posted on a public forum...



I specifically asked Starwood about this when I booked my rooms and there is nothing that states that an exchanger cannot rent out the week.  I spoke to them again when I asked about the extra person in the room, and I advised that I was renting it out.


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## iluvwdw (Jan 19, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> And I agree, SVN exchangers should not be renting out their exchanged units. It's not fair and it's against the rules. And now that it's been posted on a public forum...



I was thinking about this post last night, and I am wondering why it is you feel that way.  It is NOT against the rules at all.

Let's compare DVC to SVN.  When someone who owns at Saratoga Springs rents points to someone who wants a ressie at BCV.  Why is it OK for a DVC member to rent to someone at a resort other than their home resort, and it is not OK for a SVN member?  I just don't understand.

I am an Elite member of SVN.  I have options just like the rest of you, and I should be able to use them the way I see fit.  (I have never rented out an SVN exchange before, and I am not going to make a habit out of it!)  I made the reservation for four villas all in my name.  My Mother in Law was supposed to come with us and she is having hip surgery, so she can't come.  Instead of losing the ressie, I am going to rent it out.  Simple, and I don't understand why I shouldn't be able to rent it out.  I own options in SVN.  Just because it isn't my home resort, doesn't mean I can't rent it out.

If I were exchanging via an EXTERNAL EXCHANGE COMPANY, then I think it would be a TOTALLY different story.  But I am not.  I am a member of SVN.


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## DeniseM (Jan 19, 2006)

Kim - I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing.  You made the Resv. with the intention of using it, and now you can't.  You're making the best of the situation.

I WOULD have a problem with someone who bought some cheap mandatory resales and used the options to reserve and rent units at the hard-to-get-into resorts for a profit.  Hopefully, that's not feasible, but the post above about Redweek makes me wonder...


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## iluvwdw (Jan 19, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Kim - I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing.  You made the Resv. with the intention of using it, and now you can't.  You're making the best of the situation.
> 
> I WOULD have a problem with someone who bought some cheap mandatory resales and used the options to reserve and rent units at the hard-to-get-into resorts for a profit.  Hopefully, that's not feasible, but the post above about Redweek makes me wonder...



I see your point.  I am sure there have been people who have done exactly what you are describing!!!  I bought at my resorts to go there, for one, AND to be able to exchange within SVN.  Like I said before, I have never rented out an exchange before, and it's not something I will get in the habit of.  If I have a unit that I reserve that will go unoccupied and I have no plans of another vacation in the future that year, why not rent it out?


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## arlene22 (Jan 20, 2006)

iluvwdw said:
			
		

> I was thinking about this post last night, and I am wondering why it is you feel that way.  It is NOT against the rules at all.



I'm sorry if my post sounded too harsh. As I later posted, I was misinformed about the rules. You are correct. There is no rule against it. You explained your circumstances and I don't think there's anything wrong with salvaging a week that you intended to use, but now can't. However, having just paid my $1800   maintenance fee bill, it bothers me that the opportunity exists for others to exploit the difference in costs among SVN resorts and profit from it in a commercial way. In my mind, that would be an abuse of the system, but again, I do not think what you are doing is an abuse at all.


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## reddiablosv (Jan 22, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Kim - I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing.  You made the Resv. with the intention of using it, and now you can't.  You're making the best of the situation.
> 
> I WOULD have a problem with someone who bought some cheap mandatory resales and used the options to reserve and rent units at the hard-to-get-into resorts for a profit.  Hopefully, that's not feasible, but the post above about Redweek makes me wonder...




Been there, done that, and see nothing wrong with it!!  I bought a cheap resale SVN mandatory for the main purpose of exchanging into the Harborside. But, I have rented it as well! The year I bought, It came with 81K unused staroptions, which I could not use.  I reserved a 2 bedroom lockoff unit at the Harborside during hurricane season and rented it for 2 thousand. It helped pay for my purchase.  Why in the world would anyone object to me trying to take the best advantage of my investment.  I am entitled to it, I paid for it. How does it harm other SVN owners if I chose to rent my week?  Ben


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## DeniseM (Jan 22, 2006)

reddiablosv said:
			
		

> Been there, done that, and see nothing wrong with it!!  I bought a cheap resale SVN mandatory for the main purpose of exchanging into the Harborside. But, I have rented it as well! The year I bought, It came with 81K unused staroptions, which I could not use.  I reserved a 2 bedroom lockoff unit at the Harborside during hurricane season and rented it for 2 thousand. It helped pay for my purchase.  Why in the world would anyone object to me trying to take the best advantage of my investment.  I am entitled to it, I paid for it. How does it harm other SVN owners if I chose to rent my week?  Ben



Harborside can be a difficult exchange, and if owners are making Staroption exchanges for the express purpose of renting the weeks to non-owners, that leaves fewer weeks available to other Starwood owners who want to make Staroptions exchanges and use the week themselves.


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## reddiablosv (Jan 22, 2006)

DeniseM said:
			
		

> Harborside can be a difficult exchange, and if owners are making Staroption exchanges for the express purpose of renting the weeks to non-owners, that leaves fewer weeks available to other Starwood owners who want to make Staroptions exchanges and use the week themselves.



When I called for the exchange there were multiple weeks available. All another owner has to do is call and request an exchange.  If they don't take advantage of their ownership why should I not be allowed to take advantage of mine.  Phase 11 is far from being sold out at the Harborside.  Non school vacation weeks are readily available.  It is an easy exchange for SVN owners.  I expect this will change in the future as the resort sells out, but for now all SVN owners should feel free to take advantage of the situation.  I did not buy at the Harborside precisely because of the high MFs.  It seemed that with my flexible schedule that trading in would be the best option for me for the next several years.  If you bought from the developer at the Harborside or a resale week at the Harborside, obviously different factors impacted your decision making process.   Ben


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## TheUnitrep (Jan 22, 2006)

reddiablosv said:
			
		

> Why in the world would anyone object to me trying to take the best advantage of my investment.  I am entitled to it, I paid for it. How does it harm other SVN owners if I chose to rent my week?  Ben



Ben --

I completely agree with you!

All SVN owners have the opportunity to exchange into any SVN resort they don't own at the exact same time.  You are merely making the effort to secure a reservation (which other owners could have made) and recouping some of your initial investment by turning around and renting it out.

Renting out a unit may not be for everyone, but it is a great benefit of being a timeshare owner.

Jerry


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## zendala (Jan 25, 2006)

*According to the Starwood Vacation Exchange Company Disclosure Guide . . .*



			
				mjs said:
			
		

> It may not be fair, but it is not against the rules to rent out SVN exchanges.  I would say about 1/2 of the rental son redweek/myresortnetwork for Harborside are exhanges that have already been made, or that they will try to get for you.
> Mark



I was following this thread and up to this point agreed with the determination that renting an SVN exchange is OK, but then I found this ...
and 
I am not sure that it is "not against the rules" to rent out an SVN exchange.  According to the Starwood Vacation Exchange Company Disclosure Guide (I received when applied to join SVN for my SBP unit).

Section 8.2	SVN Member Rentals.  *An SVN Member may reserve a Vacation Period at the SVN Member’s Home Resort and rent it on the SVN Member's own account*.  All renters must comply with the rules and regulations of the Resort Documents affecting occupancy, and the renting SVN Member will be responsible for the acts or omissions of the SVN Member's renters or any other person or persons permitted by the SVN Member to use the Unit.  *Rental by an SVN Member of Units reserved through SVN (other than a Vacation Period reserved at the SVN Member’s Home Resort) is prohibited.*

I would take that to mean that if you own at VV, you may rent out a unit at VV, your home resort - not reserve through SVN a unit at Harborside and rent at Harborside. 

This seems to make sense and protects the rights of those who have paid for a more expensive unit, that only they should be entitled to reap the benefit of a higher rental value when reserving their Weeks or Options.

Of course a rule is only as good as its enforcement!   And Starwood doesn't seem to be...

Do all owners get this same document?


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## iluvwdw (Jan 26, 2006)

Wow, I never noticed that before.  But if in fact it is true, why would they let me reserve FOUR villas in my name for the same week?  I can't be in 4 places at once, now can I??  Obviously it is not enforced.


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## mariawolf (Jan 26, 2006)

Clearly they would let you do that because it could be family etc. using the units.  I own week 52 at Harborside which last year included Christmas day and I wanted to be home for Christmas so I rented mine and for whatever reason they would not let me put the name of the renter in the reservation notice--reservation was in my name and then they put the renters name in the remarks of the reservation so maybe if you rent it and then put it in someone elses name is how they figure it out???


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## iluvwdw (Jan 26, 2006)

mariawolf said:
			
		

> Clearly they would let you do that because it could be family etc. using the units.  I own week 52 at Harborside which last year included Christmas day and I wanted to be home for Christmas so I rented mine and for whatever reason they would not let me put the name of the renter in the reservation notice--reservation was in my name and then they put the renters name in the remarks of the reservation so maybe if you rent it and then put it in someone elses name is how they figure it out???



I guess you are right.  I have 3 villas for family/friends and 1 that is going unused, which is the reason I am renting this year.  I may actually just end up "renting" it to another friend!  Then there will be about 15 of us there the same time.  (3 are staying in Beach Towers)


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## arlene22 (Jan 26, 2006)

I submitted the question to mystarcentral and received this reply:

"As an owner, you can rent out your SVN reservation.  Only owners can make or modify the reservation, but if you wish a friend, family or co-worker come in your place, that is allowed.  We just need the name and address of the adult in charge who will check in.  If they pay you money for this, that is between the two parties."

So whether or not there is a rule on the books, clearly they allow it.

~Arlene


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## mariawolf (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks Arlene, now that makes sense why they wouldn't take the reservation out of my name and just put the rentor in the remarks--they obviously don't want someone other than the owner changing the reservation-at some point they might enforce the rules that are there--I know last year I got burned by changing/cancelling reservations within 60 days and could only re book within a 30 day window--that rule has been on the books but only recently enforced.


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## gmarine (Jan 26, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> I submitted the question to mystarcentral and received this reply:
> 
> "As an owner, you can rent out your SVN reservation.  Only owners can make or modify the reservation, but if you wish a friend, family or co-worker come in your place, that is allowed.  We just need the name and address of the adult in charge who will check in.  If they pay you money for this, that is between the two parties."
> 
> ...



If it is on the books then they can enforce it if they choose to. Just as II can enforce the same rule by cancelling exchanges, Starwood can likely do the same. All it will take is some unhappy owners at a particular resort who realize there are renters using units that were exchanged for who then complain to Starwood. If it is on the books then it is just a matter of time.

There is no excuse for breaking the rules in the Starwood agreement. Whether
owners agree with the policy or not, they agree to it when they buy and should follow these rules.


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## arlene22 (Jan 26, 2006)

gmarine, I would agree, except that Starwood itself says it is okay if you ask. They would have a hard time penalizing someone for something they themselves said was okay. II has no such ambiguity about their rules.

Seems to me they are taking a "don't ask, don't tell" type of approach to this. As a Harborside owner, I am okay with that. It let's people like Kim, the OP, salvage a week and options that might otherwise be wasted, while giving Starwood the authority to step in if someone abuses the system. Works for me (since I was the one whining "not fair" earlier  ). 

But I do agree that there is a risk, however small, for renter and rentee that Starwood _could_ enforce this rule against them. 

~Arlene


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## mariawolf (Jan 26, 2006)

The problem is that at some time they will start to enforce the rule and they will do it without notice--this is exactly what happened to me with the penalty for canceling a reservations within 60 days--my guess is that if this renting rule changes we will be lucky enough to see it posted here!


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## gmarine (Jan 27, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> gmarine, I would agree, except that Starwood itself says it is okay if you ask. They would have a hard time penalizing someone for something they themselves said was okay. II has no such ambiguity about their rules.
> 
> Seems to me they are taking a "don't ask, don't tell" type of approach to this. As a Harborside owner, I am okay with that. It let's people like Kim, the OP, salvage a week and options that might otherwise be wasted, while giving Starwood the authority to step in if someone abuses the system. Works for me (since I was the one whining "not fair" earlier  ).
> 
> ...



Because a phone rep says it is ok doesnt mean much unless you have it in writing. Too many times employees give out the wrong info. If it was enforced and the only defense you had was saying "***** said it was ok" you might have a hard time.


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## bigfrank (Jan 27, 2006)

Regarding the towels. I was just there and all they did is look at the card, In fact half the times I never even had to take it out of the envelope. The problem you may have if there are too many people in the room is I do not think they will be able to take a meal plan if they want. As stated I would tell them to bring an Aerobed unless they want one kid in the king bed with them and the other 3 on the sofa.


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## arlene22 (Jan 27, 2006)

gmarine said:
			
		

> Because a phone rep says it is ok doesnt mean much unless you have it in writing. Too many times employees give out the wrong info. If it was enforced and the only defense you had was saying "***** said it was ok" you might have a hard time.



Presumably, anyone who wants it in writing can submit the question on mystarcentral and get the same answer I got. I agree that there is a risk involved, and personally, I'm not crazy about the idea of people trading in and renting out at my home resort, but I think Starwood would have a hard time enforcing a rule against someone who had an email from owner services saying it was fine.


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## iluvwdw (Jan 29, 2006)

I am sorry that my original post has caused so much controversy!      But like I said, when I called, I specifically mentioned I was renting it out and they told me that was fine, but there are 4 max in the room.  I am also glad to see the response you got from MYSTARCENTRAL, Arlene.  At least I know I am not doing anything morally WRONG!  And like I said earlier, if it were REALLY against the rules, why would they let me book 4 villas in my name for the same 9 days?  Obviously I am not sleeping in every room!     And if I did "rent" out a room or two, how would they know at the resort?  They wouldn't.  For all they know, it could just be another member of my family staying in the room.

With all of that said, I am probably "renting" it out to my friends parents in the end, and they only have 2 in their room!  So at least I don't have to worry about that.

Now our plans are almost complete.  We will have 15 in our party!!

Now to get airfare...


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## arlene22 (Jan 30, 2006)

Sounds like you are going to have a great time! Enjoy.


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## mkfisher (Dec 14, 2008)

My understanding through the experience of others is that daily wristbands are given based on the "legal" occupants registered to the room.  Folks staying in the room off of the registration radar will not be granted wristbands...


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