# Points vs. Points Lite and other thoughts



## jfbookers (Nov 26, 2010)

At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points. Aren't the systems very similar now? How do the points members feel about this?

As an aside it seems the RCI lawsuit settlement I opted for is now even more useless than it was (see availablity prior to a deposit)

I am not sure about points lite yet but overall I think knowledge is power even it dose not work in your favor.

Yours, Jim


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## miamidan (Nov 26, 2010)

I think points lite was a phrase repeated through about 400 posts by another poster who is very anti anything RCI does.

I am a weeks owner who has thought about buying points on EBAY.  It seems to me that Points has some club like features built in such as home week/resort/group and some commonality amongst valuations within groupings.

Also the valuations seem to be in closer realms and to date have been fixed and not static.  They also give short term stays and partners.  The good and bad is that inventory is forced into the system for three years.  If you are a points member you have to remember to make your home week reservation if you don't call it releases into the system.  this puts much more inventory into the system but, if you bought to use you can lose your week.

The new weeks system has a lot of the great characteristics but, still has the challenge of not knowing when inventory is coming in although the disclosure of when depositing affects your trading power hopefully help that.

overall both systems have pros and cons.

Carolinian feel free to shoot holes through my comments here.


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## Conan (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm hoping the term points lite doesn't catch on - - I find it illiterate and lacking meaning.  

How about "Weeks transparency"


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## BevL (Nov 26, 2010)

I call them credits personally.  I find that less confusing.

I don't really know anything about points but I think there are exchanges available on the points side that we weeks owners can't see.

To me, from the outside looking in at points, one of the advantages was the transparency and knowing that if I had enough points, I could get that exchange.  That playing field has been evened out.

But again, I'm not a points owner commenting.


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## jfbookers (Nov 26, 2010)

*Semantics*

Fine, "weeks transparency" and "credits" but you both knew what I was talking about.Please  let's focus on the topic and question.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 26, 2010)

I prefer "units of trading power".  I agree that the "Points lite" moniker is inaccurate.

Regardless, RCI Points and the new more point-like RCI Weeks are still two very different animals.

Although there's quite a bit of overlap, there are properties that are unique to one or the other.

RCI Weeks is only for 7 day reservations, usually Fri-Fri, Sat-Sat or Sun-Sun.  RCI Points has some resorts that allow different length stays.

RCI Weeks has fees to combine units of trading power together.  All of your points in RCI Points are kept together.

RCI Points requires much more commitment.  If you're in RCI Points, your weeks are automatically deposited.  If you're in RCI Weeks, you can use your week, rent your week, deposit it in RCI Weeks, deposit it into other exchange companies, etc.


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## bnoble (Nov 26, 2010)

> At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points. Aren't the systems very similar now? How do the points members feel about this?


It's a good question.  Right before word got out about the new system, I was thinking seriously about getting access to Points so that I could quit worrying about the "tiger" problem---not having any one week that could get what I want, even if I was willing to combine two or more to do so.

New Weeks still isn't quite as flexible as Points.  And, the inventory between the two systems is quite different---it's still easier to get e.g. summer HHI, etc. in Points than it is in Weeks.


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## BevL (Nov 26, 2010)

jfbookers said:


> Fine, "weeks transparency" and "credits" but you both knew what I was talking about.Please  let's focus on the topic and question.



My apologies.  I did include my thoughts as a non points owner.

Excellent point about the shorter than a week possibility.  That wouldn't be something important to me but that could be a big selling point for some.


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## Steve (Nov 26, 2010)

As a points member, I am pleased to see the changes in RCI Weeks.  I think this new transparency makes RCI a stronger system overall and shows that RCI is taking steps to make the company more user friendly.

However, I still find much better availability in many locations in RCI Points than in weeks.  Plus my RCI resort, Meadow Lake, is valued more highly in RCI Points than it is in weeks.  So, I have a strong incentive to keep my points membership despite the new, improved RCI Weeks product.

Steve


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## Tommart (Nov 26, 2010)

*The Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side*



jfbookers said:


> At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points. Aren't the systems very similar now? How do the points members feel about this?
> 
> As an aside it seems the RCI lawsuit settlement I opted for is now even more useless than it was (see availablity prior to a deposit)
> 
> ...



I am a Weeks Owner, and have never owned a Points Unit.

It seems to me that Points Resorts on average are better than Weeks resorts, but that doesn't mean that Weeks owners can't locate excellent exchanges.

I also don't understand why Points owners have access to all RCI resorts, while Weeks owners have access to Weeks resorts and mainly offseason Points resorts (if we have access at all).  So it seems like Points members take prime weeks from Weeks, and give non-prime back to compensate.

Some resports pay thousands per owner to convert from Weeks to Points.  I've not seen the reverse.

Conversely, I like having a fixed week.  It seems like a greater percentage of Points owners have a floating week.  Not sure if this is a problem.

Also, Points appears slightly more expensive than Weeks.

So, I believe that Points is slightly more desirable.  

The bottomline is that it probably doesn't matter.  Find the resort that's best for you, and buy it regardless of whether it's Weeks or Points.

My two cents...


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## Carolinian (Nov 27, 2010)

jfbookers said:


> At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points. Aren't the systems very similar now? How do the points members feel about this?
> 
> As an aside it seems the RCI lawsuit settlement I opted for is now even more useless than it was (see availablity prior to a deposit)
> 
> ...



The moniker that is now misleading is ''Weeks'' as it is no longer a weeks based system at all but another version of a points system.  If some don't like Points Lite, which is a much more descriptive term than ''Weeks'' these days, maybe you can come up with another one, Points II or something.  But to be accurate and not misleading it does need to have the term ''points'' in it somewhere because it clearly is a points system.

Points Lite has picked up many of the bad aspects of regular Points.  We have lost the flexibility of trading within a range or band and been hit with an aggravating and annoying exact number system.  We have effectively lost the ability to make exchanges in a timeframe useful for coordination with frequent flyer programs.  Points Lite's timeframes encourage people to wait until 9-10 months out to deposit while ff tickets open up at 11 months out, and many tickets to the most popular destinations are long gone by the time most Points Lite deposits will roll in.  Of course, until the old Weeks deposits are used up, this will not fully hit, as there are still deposits in the system made over a year out to maximize trading power.  Good luck on coordinating ff tickets with a Caribbean exchange under this system in the future!

Something that Points Lite does better than regular Points is in giving the holiday bump to the correct week.  In regular Points, week 47 always get the extra value of being Thanksgiving, even when it is the dog week after Thanksgiving, and week 46 never gets that extra value even in the years that it is, in fact, Thanksgiving week.  Points Lite seems to adjust so that the correct week gets the holiday bump for Thanksgiving or other holidays.  One thing that is a little peculiar at least on the OBX in Points Lite, though, is that instead of giving the extra value just to Thanksgiving week itself, as would make sense, they instead average it over both Thanksgiving week and the preceding week, which undervalues Thanksgviing and overvalues the week preceding Thanksgiving.

One difference is that the values of regular Points are rigged and frozen, which has its plusses and minuses, and those of Points Lite are variable.  Frozen values are dangerous for insider deals with developers while the way RCI is running the variable situation is as well. The frozen values does not allow RCI to play games with different points given for a deposit than it is charging at the exact same time for an exchange into the same week.  That these may change over time makes sense and would be positive to the system, but when they are different at the exact same time is indicative of a fraud in the system and some deliberate overpointing. Absence of transparency in the method of assigning points numbers is a huge flaw in both systems and leads to clear abuses.


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## Conan (Nov 27, 2010)

The Points vs. Weeks question is the same as it ever was, except the new transparency on the Weeks side allows us to see better what goes on "under the hood" in Weeks.

Points has access to the Weeks side limited to properties that don't offer participation in Points.  It's always appeared to me that Points access even among those non-Points participating properties was not 100%.  Now that Weeks are transparent, somebody who's willing to do the research can confirm this.  You need to identify some available Weeks in RCI Weeks, check the Directory (I believe the directory in Weeks as well as Points does flag what properties are RCI Points participants) and eliminate those that are marked in the Directory as  RCI Points participants, then search on RCI Points to see if all of those available Weeks can be had with Points.  Again, I think you'll find that RCI Points access is not 100% even among those.  So if that's true then RCI Weeks has an important advantage that's always been there, but now revealed thanks to transparency.

Anyway, RCI Points as mentioned allows you to book less than a full week if it's a Points-participating property so that's an offsetting advantage.  Also because Points-participating properties only become available in the final 10 months before use, there's often availability there that seems new when it shows up - - i.e. that never showed on RCI Weeks.  So that's another offsetting advantage. But it's also a good reason (if I'm right in the prior paragraph) to be in RCI Weeks in addition to RCI Points especially now that you can take advantage of the new transpararency.  Also, when a week does show up both on RCI Weeks and the Weeks side of RCI Points, it shows at different prices in each system and you can pick whichever price looks better to you in terms of absolute value and what deposits/points credits you have available in each system.

[Please note, I have the argumentative Mr. Carolinian on my TUG ignore list, so I cannot respond to whatever he is saying or might say about me.]


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## fishingguy (Nov 27, 2010)

I may not like the name "Points Lite", but there is not doubt in my mind on what you guys are talking about.  :hysterical:


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## MichaelColey (Nov 27, 2010)

Steve said:


> However, I still find much better availability in many locations in RCI Points than in weeks. Plus my RCI resort, Meadow Lake, is valued more highly in RCI Points than it is in weeks. So, I have a strong incentive to keep my points membership despite the new, improved RCI Weeks product.


This just goes to show that each have advantages in different areas and circumstances.  I have both RCI Weeks and RCI Points, but my experience has been the opposite of Steve's.  I usually find far more availability in RCI Weeks and get better deals.  For instance, I've booked four weeks at 2BR DVC units.  Three were through RCI Weeks and my net cost was about $500 each.  One was through RCI Points and my net cost was about $850.  (All of them were worth it to me, though!)


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## Pit (Nov 27, 2010)

jfbookers said:


> At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points.



Not sure what fees you're refering to.

The annual fee is $35 higher, but many other fees are lower. I can trade back into my home resort (non-deeded week) for $40. I can exchange to other Points resorts for $139 (or less for short stays). And, I can exchange into Weeks inventory for the same cost as a Weeks owner. If I make a single 7-day Points exchange per year, I come out $5 ahead (annual fee + exchange fee).

Some other fees you were thinking of?


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## chewie (Nov 27, 2010)

Pit said:


> Not sure what fees you're refering to.
> 
> 
> Some other fees you were thinking of?



I think he is referring to the $3-$5k conversion fee that some resorts push on their victims.  Is he not?


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## Pit (Nov 27, 2010)

chewie said:


> I think he is referring to the $3-$5k conversion fee that some resorts push on their victims.  Is he not?



Could be. I wouldn't have recommended conversion at those prices even before the recent RCI changes. Much cheaper to buy a week already converted.


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## AFARR (Nov 27, 2010)

*FYI:*

In a long call with RCI (dealing with my missing points transfer) I asked the representative what they called it...

He said the term they use is "Enhanced Weeks".

AFARR


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## Carolinian (Nov 27, 2010)

Same as it ever was??????????? in spite of:
- massively degraded internal exchange mechanism
- end of trading within a band or range, which has been changed to an exact number system
- priority of searches changed from oldest to one with highest number of points lite
- substantial changes in trading power many places
- valuation of weeks deposited by grid groups instead of individually
- shortening of deposit time to get maximum trading power, which will mean less timeshare availibility during ff ticket window.

Open your eyes, man!  This is a massive change in the system, and anything that operates on an exact number system is a points system, period!




Conan said:


> The Points vs. Weeks question is the same as it ever was, except the new transparency on the Weeks side allows us to see better what goes on "under the hood" in Weeks.
> 
> Points has access to the Weeks side limited to properties that don't offer participation in Points.  It's always appeared to me that Points access even among those non-Points participating properties was not 100%.  Now that Weeks are transparent, somebody who's willing to do the research can confirm this.  You need to identify some available Weeks in RCI Weeks, check the Directory (I believe the directory in Weeks as well as Points does flag what properties are RCI Points participants) and eliminate those that are marked in the Directory as  RCI Points participants, then search on RCI Points to see if all of those available Weeks can be had with Points.  Again, I think you'll find that RCI Points access is not 100% even among those.  So if that's true then RCI Weeks has an important advantage that's always been there, but now revealed thanks to transparency.
> 
> Anyway, RCI Points as mentioned allows you to book less than a full week if it's a Points-participating property so that's an offsetting advantage.  Also because Points-participating properties only become available in the final 10 months before use, there's often availability there that seems new when it shows up - - i.e. that never showed on RCI Weeks.  So that's another offsetting advantage. But it's also a good reason (if I'm right in the prior paragraph) to be in RCI Weeks in addition to RCI Points especially now that you can take advantage of the new transpararency.  Also, when a week does show up both on RCI Weeks and the Weeks side of RCI Points, it shows at different prices in each system and you can pick whichever price looks better to you in terms of absolute value and what deposits/points credits you have available in each system.


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## Carolinian (Nov 27, 2010)

AFARR said:


> In a long call with RCI (dealing with my missing points transfer) I asked the representative what they called it...
> 
> He said the term they use is "Enhanced Weeks".
> 
> AFARR



Hmmm! Is that like an ''enhanced pat down''?


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## caribbean (Nov 27, 2010)

*One difference in Fees*

One difference in fees regarding booking multiple weeks. I recently booked 14 days in the same resort through points for a $139 reservation fee. Had I booked two separate weeks online in weeks it would have cost me $179 times 2 or $358. And even more if I called one of the RCI reps on the phone.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 28, 2010)

Carolinian said:


> Same as it ever was??????????? in spite of:
> - massively degraded internal exchange mechanism
> - end of trading within a band or range, which has been changed to an exact number system
> - priority of searches changed from oldest to one with highest number of points lite
> ...


Not even close to the truth on most of these points.

*"massively degraded internal exchange mechanism"*

Your one valid point.  Yes, internal preferences in the form of increased trading power have been lost.  I suspect that we'll see an uproar from the resorts and this will be restored at some point.

*"end of trading within a band or range, which has been changed to an exact number system"*

Although it's an oft-repeated theory here, I think it's pretty clear that there haven't been bands for quite a while.  (Perhaps before 5/31/09, but definitely not in recent history.)

*"priority of searches changed from oldest to one with highest number of points lite"*

I don't believe this has been confirmed, and I don't think it would even make sense to do it this way.

*"substantial changes in trading power many places"*

Where other than South Africa?

*"valuation of weeks deposited by grid groups instead of individually"*

How is this changed?  It appears that this is how it worked before.

*"shortening of deposit time to get maximum trading power, which will mean less timeshare availibility during ff ticket window."*

There's no change here.  RCI has always said that you get maximum trading value from 9-24 months, and that's been my observation as well.


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## timeos2 (Nov 28, 2010)

*It's always been points now you know*



Carolinian said:


> Same as it ever was??????????? in spite of:
> - massively degraded internal exchange mechanism
> - end of trading within a band or range, which has been changed to an exact number system
> - priority of searches changed from oldest to one with highest number of points lite
> ...



For nearly a decade I said that weeks was really a points system but done in secret behind the scenes.  As we now know it was - it HAD to be to determine trade power - but now the values are (thankfully) revealed to owners.  It hasn't changed it has just been exposed and IMO that is a big positive.


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## jfbookers (Nov 28, 2010)

*Fees*

Yes, I was refering to the conversion fees some resorts were pushing.

See:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132052 

Yours,Jim


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## tschwa2 (Nov 28, 2010)

*my 2 cents (in red)*



MichaelColey said:


> *"massively degraded internal exchange mechanism"*
> point.
> Your one valid point.  Yes, internal preferences in the form of increased trading power have been lost.  I suspect that we'll see an uproar from the resorts and this will be restored at some
> 
> ...



Overall I like(but not love) the "enhancements" so far, but that could change as I use it more.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 28, 2010)

*"shortening of deposit time to get maximum trading power, which will mean less timeshare availibility during ff ticket window."

*There's no change here. RCI has always said that you get maximum trading value from 9-24 months, and that's been my observation as well.



tschwa2 said:


> This one is a change. Until several months ago when details of the "enhancement" started to come out RCI never said anything other than deposit as early as possible. The TUG thought seemed to be at least one year and up to two years but not too early or you could get dinged for lack of interest in your area.


I've only been doing this since June, so I don't know what's been said before that.  I know I've seen the 12 month number mentioned quite a bit here, but I've seen 9 months mentioned several places (including, I thought, somewhere on RCI).


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## jfbookers (Dec 3, 2010)

*Still wondering how points members feel*

I for one would be very upset to have bought into the RCI points at a high price or just before "enhanced weeks" were unveiled.
While some have pointed out the advantages of the previous RCI Points program,I don't think they would be worth buying an additional points timeshare or paying fees often in excess of the value of many timeshares to join the RCI Points program.
Overall I like how the new program is working out for me. I deposited a week 53 which I am never able to use for 22 points and have exchanged for a seven point resort with 15 points change. 3 weeks for one!
My avoidance of crowded time periods makes this very attractive and yes I know RCI is getting three exchange fees but so far so good. Yours,
Jim


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## "Roger" (Dec 3, 2010)

Am I going bananas because of what has occurred in Weeks?  In my own case, I might be upset if I had bought into Points recently.  As it stands, I bought in near the beginning and according to my calculations (and these are a bit conservative) I paid for the conversion price within about three years with the extra trades I received.  (I wish I could say the same for the payback on my original investment in a timeshare.)  So, I have had about seven years of gravy.

It does seem that the biggest advantage of Points (at least as far as I am concerned) - paying for exactly what you receive - is now available to Weeks members.  Short stays do not seem worth the price of conversion. Points for products is not a great use of points, but can be useful if you get overloaded with points at some time.

One thing not often mentioned, however, is that the best resorts in certain areas are often part of Points and much more available to Points members.  (Almost anything on Kauai is in Points, the _nicer_ resorts on Hilton Head and in many other areas, much of England, etc.)  Thus, there is still one hidden advantage to Points that is not so noticible if you just look at how the program works.


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## Texasbelle (Dec 10, 2010)

The RCI guide says it is "trade value" or "trading value" NOT credits or points.  [Of course if you have trading value left over that is called credits.]  So I said I don't care what you call it, it is points and if I had wanted points, I would have bought them.  I sincerely hope "this call may be recorded" as I hope someone fixes this "points lite" system so I can trade my 2 bedroom red [summer] time week that is banked.  I also said I have to find something for that, but I surely do not have to deposit another week into RCI.


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## Conan (Dec 10, 2010)

Texasbelle said:


> The RCI guide says it is "trade value" or "trading value" NOT credits or points. [Of course if you have trading value left over that is called credits.] So I said I don't care what you call it, it is points and if I had wanted points, I would have bought them. I sincerely hope "this call may be recorded" as I hope someone fixes this "points lite" system so I can trade my 2 bedroom red [summer] time week that is banked. I also said I have to find something for that, but I surely do not have to deposit another week into RCI.


 
Can I ask how many TP points they gave you for the banked week, and where it's located?


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## Texasbelle (Dec 12, 2010)

Conan, I sent you a private message.  16 trading value for 2 bedroom, late June, lakefront Texas [Conroe area].


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## chriskre (Feb 6, 2011)

jfbookers said:


> At this point why would someone pay the sometimes excessive fees to join RCI points. Aren't the systems very similar now? How do the points members feel about this?
> 
> As an aside it seems the RCI lawsuit settlement I opted for is now even more useless than it was (see availablity prior to a deposit)
> 
> ...



Kind of late to this party but just wanted to say that I think it depends on what you own in weeks as to how happy you will be owning points.

I've always used my RCI points for the bargain 7500 exchanges but have recently changed that strategy since discovering PFD and finding that I can still get great exchanges even if I don't get it discounted.  

I personally find much more inventory in RCI points than in the TPU's for the places that I want to go.  

I live in FL so for me it's all about Mickey and the beach.
It just seems that the best beach stuff is in RCI points, so for me, no regrets.


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## Tommart (Feb 7, 2011)

*Additional Factors*

I am also a Weeks owner, and I agree with what all say about the pros and cons of Weeks v Points, but there's two differences that no one has talked about:

1.  With Weeks every owner at a resort generally pays the same maintenance fee. With most Points programs, an owner needs to annually purchase more Points if they want a Red/Platnum week.  Many pay over $1,000 each year for a prime week.  So a Points member pays a couple dollars for their RCI membership, but often pays hundreds more annually if they plan to vacation during Red weeks. 

2.  I find the Points systems confusing.  Yes, the RCI system is straight forward, but many Points resorts have an additional system imposed of top of them, e.g. Wyndham, Starwood, Hilton, Holiday Inn, BlueGreen, Shell, Marriott, etc.  Some have their own fees, and all operate differently.  And the conversion of points from the home system to RCI Points appears to create issues.

I recently went to a sales presentation at a Points resort.  It was difficult getting them to explain fees to me.  Was told that MF was about $620s for a two bedroom.  Later found out that did not include $120 in property taxes.  Then discovered that didn't include the points I needed to purchase if I wanted more than 100K points.  When I tried to determine what 100K points meant (not RCI Points), they didn't answer my questions.  I now know 100K was a blue week.  They also mentioned conversion fees, but that was also confusing.  I never understood the system.  (In comparison, each two-bedroom side of my Weeks 4-bed summer lockout costs $335/annually.)

I also didn't believe the salesmen when he told me that I would always get the week I requested. 

I would like to buy a Points resort to get access to additional resorts, but I'm not willing to pay over $600 MF annually for a two-bedroom prime week to do that.  I'll probably be in Weeks for life.


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