# Help! I think we made a big mistake - Westin Princeville



## Run Fat (Apr 14, 2014)

Hello and thank you for this great site!

My wife and I just bought a 2 BR annual timeshare at the Westin Princeville a few days ago and while we're excited about the property (and the opportunity to use the other villas), I can't help but think we made a big mistake. 

The asking price for the Westin Princeville was $60k + HOA fees of about $2500 for the 2 BR lockoff. They threw in a 170k SPG points as a signing bonus. (Looking at some of the ads it seems like we can do WAY better in the resale market ($11k for the same property in one ad!))

I poured over the information on this site, especially the Starwood FAQ, and it seems the best option would be to rescind the purchase and get something in the resale market, probably from a "mandatory" property (like Westin Kaanapali). 

We have to rescind by 4/16 so any help would be greatly appreciated!

BTW, our intention for the Princeville property would be to use it once every two or three years and use StarOptions to utilize other properties (for instance, bring our kids to Orland for a week). We don't ever plan on converting to SPG points since that is a bad tradeoff. 

Here are my questions...

>Should we rescind? 
>Does it make more sense to buy resale at Westin Kaanapali or Princeville? 

Thank you so much for your help!

John

P.S. during the pitch we asked why not buy resale and they basically said our opportunity for using StarOptions would be very limited - I take it this was bullshit, right?


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## Ken555 (Apr 14, 2014)

You are absolutely correct that you should rescind. Don't hesitate, do it immediately. Then come back here and figure out what to buy. Until you know exactly how you intend to use your ownership buying from the developer is simply a waste of money. And, you will always be able to buy again from them in future if you decide that's the best route (it's not, since you'll likely find that buying resale is everything you need at a fraction of the price).


Sent from my iPad


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 14, 2014)

Congrats on finding this forum in time.
Rescind, Research, Resale

caveat - we own and enjoy Westin Princeville (WPORV)


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## Karen G (Apr 14, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats on finding this forum in time.
> Rescind, Research, Resale


Adding my vote for you to rescind. If you have any question at all as to what you've done, rescind now while you still have the opportunity. Once your rescission period passes, you won't be able to do so. The deal will still be there if, after you've done your research, you still want to go through with it. But, if you let this rescission opportunity pass, you won't have it again.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 14, 2014)

Rescind!

We bought Princeville from the developer several years ago, found this forum, rescinded, bought Kierland (resale), and haven't regretted it for a moment.

Spend a few months researching.  You will learn that you can buy Kierland resale for about 30% of the cost of buying Princeville from the developer, that Kierland's maintenance fees are about half as much as Princeville, and that Princeville is actually an easy trade using StarOptions (yes, the saleperson was b*llshitting you when he said Princeville is a difficult trade; it is the easiest Starwood or Marriott in Hawaii to trade into).


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## LisaRex (Apr 14, 2014)

Glad you found TUG before you made a big mistake.  170k SPs are hardly worth $40,000, which is how much you'd be overpaying.


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## csxjohn (Apr 14, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats on finding this forum in time.
> Rescind, Research, Resale
> 
> caveat - we own and enjoy Westin Princeville (WPORV)



I like it, the 3 Rs of Timeshare World

Rescind

Research

Resale

And do it now, not later.


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## PamMo (Apr 14, 2014)

You will not regret rescinding! Do it now, and then take your time to find something that fits your needs for a LOT less. 

I can totally understand you and your wife falling in love with WPORV, though. It's a wonderful resort. We've been very happy trading into it with one of our other (resale) Starwood weeks.


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## Run Fat (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks for the advice everyone! I am pretty sure we will be rescinding since it definitely appears that many (all?) of you have had good experience buying resale. 

Another question that I had was if there is a difference when you call to book a property if you bought direct from the developer or in the resale market. Are resale buyers in any way treated differently? Does the operator even know who you bought the property from?

Sorry, one more question... the salesperson said that not all StarOptions are equal, meaning that if you pay more for you property your StarOptions put you at the top of the queue when booking a property. Is this more BS or is there any truth to this?

Thanks again for all the help! If/when I get a chance, I'd love to buy you all a cocktail 

John


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 14, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone! I am pretty sure we will be rescinding since it definitely appears that many (all?) of you have had good experience buying resale.
> 
> Another question that I had was if there is a difference when you call to book a property if you bought direct from the developer or in the resale market. Are resale buyers in any way treated differently? Does the operator even know who you bought the property from?
> 
> ...




All StarOptions are created equal (at least at the eight month mark, whether reserving at your home resort or elsewhere).

Any salesperson who represented to the contrary was lying to you.


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## LisaRex (Apr 14, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> Another question that I had was if there is a difference when you call to book a property if you bought direct from the developer or in the resale market. Are resale buyers in any way treated differently? Does the operator even know who you bought the property from?



The operator knows, but it doesn't matter.  All owners are treated the same when it comes to booking your home resort and exchanging within the network.  In fact, unlike Marriott, Starwood does not allow multiple week owners to book a month early.  That is one of the things that drew me to Starwood over Marriott. 



			
				Run Fat said:
			
		

> Sorry, one more question... the salesperson said that not all StarOptions are equal, meaning that if you pay more for you property your StarOptions put you at the top of the queue when booking a property. Is this more BS or is there any truth to this?



That is a outright lie.


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## Passepartout (Apr 14, 2014)

When you book a vacation, no one knows whether you bought resale, or at full freight from the developer. Well, except you. Or put another way, Only you know that you bought a lifetime's great vacations for a handfull of dollars, or with a bucket full of thou$and$.

And this isn't just at Starwood. 

Buy resale..... Save Thousands.

Oh, I just read TUGBrian's (the TUG owner) latest tally. We've saved TUGgers over $4 MILLION dollars in developer overcharges by those who have told us how much they saved by rescinding and buying resale.

Run Fat, you're next. add to the total.

Jim


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 14, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Oh, I just read TUGBrian's (the TUG owner) latest tally. We've saved TUGgers over $4 MILLION dollars in developer overcharges by those who have told us how much they saved by rescinding and buying resale.



Not to mention all of the advice to rescind via PM that was not discussed via the SVO Forum.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 14, 2014)

You now have a choice between buy a mandatory vs voluntary Starwood resort.

 If you want princeville (Voluntary) you can buy it much cheaper than a mandatory resort but of course it will be only good for stays at princeville ( with the MF of approx  $2800) with reservations available at 12 months.  OR you could spend a little more and buy Phoenix ( with MF of approx $1200) and use the mandatory staroptions to go to any starwood resort with reservations available at 8 months. 

Good Luck


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Run Fat,

Welcome to Tug.

Another vote for you to rescind.

Follow the instructions in your contract on how to rescind. Send your rescision letter via United States Postal Service with return receipt requested. Make sure your letter is postmarked prior to the recision expiration period.

Follow the 3 R's.

Good luck,

Richard


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## Fredward (Apr 14, 2014)

One of the best pieces of advice we ever learned from attending Starwood sales presentations was to use options from a resort with lower annual maintenance fees to stay in someone else's high priced villa. StarOptions are like cash you can use to stay in their resorts.  81,000 options from our Cancun resort are equal to 81,000 options from Princeville and our annual maintenance fees are half as much- without even talking about the purchase prices.  (We often agree to sales presentations for the opportunity to learn something even if its "What is your favorite hotel/resort/restaurant??") Starwood resorts trade amazingly well through II- we've snagged 2 BRs in Westin Princeville using a 1 BR Kierland (small side, hot summer months) several times.  
And if you're thinking about Orlando, there are so many rooms available there that we've never had a problem getting someplace nice with a little pre-planning.  There were also some great opportunities to use ACs for the Orlando resorts last fall.  Good luck!


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## siesta (Apr 14, 2014)

csxjohn said:


> I like it, the 3 Rs of Timeshare World
> 
> Rescind
> 
> ...


It should be the 4 R's. Rescind, Research, Resale, Rejoice!

To the OP, you should rescind immediately. Then ask all the questions you are now doing.  Guess what, if you later decide you were happy and prefer the retail purchase that "deal" will still be waiting for you. Stop wasting precious time!


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## lizap (Apr 14, 2014)

Completely agree.  WKV would be the way I'd go..



vacationtime1 said:


> Rescind!
> 
> We bought Princeville from the developer several years ago, found this forum, rescinded, bought Kierland (resale), and haven't regretted it for a moment.
> 
> Spend a few months researching.  You will learn that you can buy Kierland resale for about 30% of the cost of buying Princeville from the developer, that Kierland's maintenance fees are about half as much as Princeville, and that Princeville is actually an easy trade using StarOptions (yes, the saleperson was b*llshitting you when he said Princeville is a difficult trade; it is the easiest Starwood or Marriott in Hawaii to trade into).


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## Run Fat (Apr 15, 2014)

OK, the cancellation letter is signed and ready to go! Turns out when everyone is unanimous in their view, making a decision is easy!  

*Our thanks to all of you for your input!!*

The post office is likely to be swamped tomorrow. Is there any reason why I can't FedEx the form? I can't imagine that it matters, but I only have one shot to get this right and I don't want to blow it! 

Thanks again,

John


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 15, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> OK, the cancellation letter is signed and ready to go! Turns out when everyone is unanimous in their view, making a decision is easy!
> 
> *Our thanks to all of you for your input!!*
> 
> ...




You must rescind according to the instructions or your rescission is not valid.  If the instructions are U.S.Mail, then that is the (only) way to go.  No harm in getting a return receipt from the postal service, although it is not necessary except for peace of mind.

If FedEx is not one of the enumerated methods of delivering your rescission, a rescission via FedEx -- even one creating a return receipt -- is not valid.

This is something on which you should not take any chances.


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## siesta (Apr 15, 2014)

vacationtime1 said:


> You must rescind according to the instructions or your rescission is not valid.  If the instructions are U.S.Mail, then that is the (only) way to go.  No harm in getting a return receipt from the postal service, although it is not necessary except for peace of mind.
> 
> If FedEx is not one of the enumerated methods of delivering your rescission, a rescission via FedEx -- even one creating a return receipt -- is not valid.
> 
> This is something on which you should not take any chances.


^exactly.  The inconvenience of the post office tomorrow is well worth the 10s of thousands you are about to save. Dont take any chances, follow rescission instructions.


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## mjm1 (Apr 15, 2014)

Arriving to the party late, but another vote for Kierland Villas. it was suggested to us and we have truly enjoyed our ownership. Bought an EOY to test the waters and then an EY unit.  Already been to Kaanapali and are headed to Westin St John for the first time this coming weekend. 

As others have suggested, do more research and then look for a resale. Good luck.


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## Run Fat (Apr 15, 2014)

The instructions say "to cancel this transaction, mail or deliver a signed copy of this cancellation notice or any other written notice, or send a telegram..."

No sense taking my chances though so I'll brave the crowds first thing tomorrow morning and get this sent via certified mail. 

John


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## siesta (Apr 15, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> The instructions say "to cancel this transaction, mail or deliver a signed copy of this cancellation notice or any other written notice, or send a telegram..."
> 
> No sense taking my chances though so I'll brave the crowds first thing tomorrow morning and get this sent via certified mail.
> 
> John


That language sounds to me fedex would be ok, but play it safe. Make sure you get return receipt requested.


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## PamMo (Apr 15, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> OK, the cancellation letter is signed and ready to go! Turns out when everyone is unanimous in their view, making a decision is easy!



Excellent!!!  You won't regret it.

I don't know if Tuggers get more excited about their own great purchase/exchange deals or when they save a newbie some serious money! I hope you hang around TUG for awhile - and let us know if/what you decide to buy.

Welcome to TUG!


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## larryallen (Apr 15, 2014)

I agree about rescind. After doing your research if you decide it's worth it to you to pay extra to buy from the developer then you can do that. I am confident they will still give you a bazillion bonus points and whatever other "expiring" deal they offered.


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## Run Fat (Apr 15, 2014)

The cancellation letter is in the U.S. mail (certified with delivery receipt)!! The form said the cancellation will be processed in no more than 15 business days -- and in the meantime I'll do a little more research   (Although based on what I have learned so far, I would need to get a mandatory TS, which really limits the options. Based on our usage it seems like Kierland would be a logical choice... but first more digging around!)

If I haven't said it often enough, *Thank you for all the guidance!!!*

Cheers,
John


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 15, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> The cancellation letter is in the U.S. mail (certified with delivery receipt)!! The form said the cancellation will be processed in no more than 15 business days -- and in the meantime I'll do a little more research   (Although based on what I have learned so far, I would need to get a mandatory TS, which really limits the options. Based on our usage it seems like Kierland would be a logical choice... but first more digging around!)
> 
> If I haven't said it often enough, *Thank you for all the guidance!!!*
> 
> ...



The resale SVN mandatory VOI (TS week) does not limit your options (as you can still use II), but expands your options - and that comes with a premium purchase price.

Congrats.


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## LisaRex (Apr 16, 2014)

DavidnRobin said:


> The resale SVN mandatory VOI (TS week) does not limit your options (as you can still use II), but expands your options - and that comes with a premium purchase price.



I took "limits the options" to mean that because he should target a mandatory resort, it limits what resorts he can buy.  IOW, he can't buy Princeville.


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## SMHarman (Apr 16, 2014)

Run Fat said:


> The cancellation letter is in the U.S. mail (certified with delivery receipt)!! The form said the cancellation will be processed in no more than 15 business days -- and in the meantime I'll do a little more research   (Although based on what I have learned so far, I would need to get a mandatory TS, which really limits the options. Based on our usage it seems like Kierland would be a logical choice... but first more digging around!)
> 
> If I haven't said it often enough, *Thank you for all the guidance!!!*
> 
> ...


It limits the resorts you can buy into.

WKORV/N
WKV
SVV Bella or Key West
WSJ Hillside
HRA
Then if you are planning to be a regular user of points not the destination you likely back out 

WKORV/N
WSJ Hillside
HRA
As the MF$2500-$3500 MF for a 2BR LO (or points equivilant) make them often better to rent than use II or SO to trade.

So that leaves

SVV Bella or Key West and
WKV
Then you balance your guesstimated ownership timeline and the buy in cost vs the MF.  The longer the planned ownership (and remember the average home ownership is 7 years).
Paying $20k upfront  and then $1400 (and escalating) per year for 148k options or buying Two units at SVV to get to the 148k options for a few k and then having a higher annual MF bill instead.

Both have their plusses and minuses (disclosure I went for WKV option).

In your situation (as described in the thread of posts - I know nothing more abbout you).  You can easily add WKORV/N into the mix as you like the HI option(s) and like the Princeville destination.  HI is likely not a bad purchase location for you.  You can get 12 month booking preference at WKORV/N and an exchange into Princeville at 8 months would not feel like a bad deal as the MF on either is similar.


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## ChrisandBeth (Apr 16, 2014)

One more note of caution. You may well get a phone call (perhaps starting with a phrase like helping to process your cancellation) that is in reality a last stab at saving the sale. Be firm, be polite and just say no. Unless your letter specifically stated a reason or a reason is required, say you are cancelling for personal reasons and prefer not to discuss it. You might imply you had recent health news.....hey they use BS why shouldn't you! If you say financial reasons they may lower the price (still not worth it). If you say you would prefer to buy resale they may offer more BS why thats not a good idea.


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## larryallen (Apr 16, 2014)

ChrisandBeth said:


> One more note of caution. You may well get a phone call (perhaps starting with a phrase like helping to process your cancellation) that is in reality a last stab at saving the sale. Be firm, be polite and just say no. Unless your letter specifically stated a reason or a reason is required, say you are cancelling for personal reasons and prefer not to discuss it. You might imply you had recent health news.....hey they use BS why shouldn't you! If you say financial reasons they may lower the price (still not worth it). If you say you would prefer to buy resale they may offer more BS why thats not a good idea.



I disagree. Don't lie to them. Why stoop to their level!?  Two wrongs....


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## Karen G (Apr 16, 2014)

No explanation of rescission is required when one is within the time frame specified by law. One can just say "I'm exercising my legal right of rescission" and leave it at that.


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## okwiater (Apr 16, 2014)

I agree -- don't explain anything. I've found that giving a reason to a salesperson is actually an invitation for he or she to try to explain why your reasoning isn't valid. It's your right to rescind, so leave it at that.


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## LisaRex (Apr 16, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> In your situation (as described in the thread of posts - I know nothing more abbout you).  You can easily add WKORV/N into the mix as you like the HI option(s) and like the Princeville destination.  HI is likely not a bad purchase location for you.  You can get 12 month booking preference at WKORV/N and an exchange into Princeville at 8 months would not feel like a bad deal as the MF on either is similar.



WKORV/N is not as easy as it used to be because SVO is exercising its ROFR.  MFs are also ~$2400, so high to use as an exchanger.  

The best reason, IMO, for owning one of the top tier resorts is because you want the best shot at securing the week of your choice during high season and/or if you want to secure a better view.  For those who want to exchange to other resorts often, it still makes much more sense to target either WKV (long term ownership potentional) or SVV (short term ownership potential or if you don't have an extra $20k sitting around).


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## SMHarman (Apr 16, 2014)

LisaRex said:


> WKORV/N is not as easy as it used to be because SVO is exercising its ROFR.  MFs are also ~$2400, so high to use as an exchanger.
> 
> The best reason, IMO, for owning one of the top tier resorts is because you want the best shot at securing the week of your choice during high season and/or if you want to secure a better view.  For those who want to exchange to other resorts often, it still makes much more sense to target either WKV (long term ownership potentional) or SVV (short term ownership potential or if you don't have an extra $20k sitting around).



Yes, that was a heavily caveated purchase for HI as clearly the OP has some sembelence of cash floating around as they just rescinded Princeville.  Now if they want to travel to HI regularly they have 12 month window for booking into Maui and *8 month exchange for Princeville*.  The MF for both is similar so the MF differentiation on exchange is not in the same league as say using your 148k $2400 HI SOs to exchange for WLRs $1300 148k week.

It was a suggestion specifically targeted at the OPs situation, not a general 'buy HI and use the SOs to travel the world' salesperson suggestion.


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## toxicesq (Apr 18, 2014)

When I asked the salesman at Princeville why he wasn't telling me it was a voluntary resort, he said he doesn't mention it because it doesn't matter to most new owners and by the time that the know the difference, they have already bought.  Ha Ha.

As for the value of star options, I'm using my Desert Willow points in July for my second visit to Princeville.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 18, 2014)

toxicesq said:


> When I asked the salesman at Princeville why he wasn't telling me it was a voluntary resort, he said he doesn't mention it *because it doesn't matter to most new owners* and by the time that the know the difference, they have already bought.  Ha Ha.
> 
> As for the value of star options, I'm using my Desert Willow points in July for my second visit to Princeville.



This is quite true - TUG only represents a very small percentage of SVO Owners - ignorance can be bliss.

Nice exchange - WPORV is a great resort and north Kauai is a special place on earth.


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