# Russia and Eastern Europe



## Jwerking (Jul 16, 2016)

My daughter has just moved to Kaiserslautern, Germany -about 1.5 hrs from Frankfurt to work for 3 yrs - so planning to visit Europe a lot while she is there. Before she got the job in Germany, we had already planned a vacation to Europe this fall - Paris, Venice, Rome, Naples, Athens, and Istanbul (maybe given the current situation- but airfare is booked).  We will be in Germany for month of Nov - a bit late and chilly to enjoy the outdoors and surprisingly many tourist attractions close by end of Oct.

So late summer of 2017 - thinking of going over and spending the entire fall then with winter months in Canary Islands and Portugal coast timeshares. Maybe spring time somewhere before coming back home to US. 

So for visiting Russia - I guess Moscow and St. Petersburg.  Is this doable independently and is staying at an AirBnb apt okay or is a hotel preferable?

Same question for Praque, Warsaw, and Budapest?  Are most of these places essentially visiting historical sites in the cities?  Any outdoor mountain type hiking closeby?  Can you drive a rental car from Germany to Prague, Warsaw, and Budapest?

We love to hike in majestic mountains with pretty scenery.  Research shows that Bavaria in southern Germany has the Alps along with castles !  I assume Switzerland and Italy alps resorts will do the same.  Any must visit parks/places in the Alps that we should not miss?

Lots of questions - trying to get a handle on what there is to do and start some timeshare searches .  Thanks for any help.


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## Passepartout (Jul 16, 2016)

The only fly I see in the plan is for Russia. They require visas, and hosts, hotel addresses, etc. If not on an organized tour. You might consider a river cruise where those logistics are handled, Moscow, St. Petersburg are included. Russia is not a mature tourist destination for Western folks.

For mountains, consider Slovenia. It is less developed, but has wonderful scenery and friendly people.

Jim


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## Jimster (Jul 17, 2016)

*Russia*

It is my understanding that you can leave from Stockholm and go to St. Petersburg on a tour and it will NOT require a visa.  I think this is true up to something like 7 days.  I think it is similar to how you can now visit cities in China visa-free.

Hungary has several TS.  I stayed at Petenhazy which is outside Budapest although you can connect to the Budapest train system from there.   Do not drive in Budapest.

I would recommend hotels in Prague.  There are several good ones and not much in the area of TS.

Warsaw is ok but Kraków is the cultural hub of Poland.  Warsaw was obliterated in WWII so from a historic perspective there isn't much.  Kraków is a jump off spot to Auschwitz if that is of interest to you.  It is also a beautiful city with lots to do.  Poland is not on the Euro and life is cheap there.  

I am not a big fan of driving in Europe although I have done it in several places. It has nothing to do with my ability to drive since I drive downtown Chicago nor does it have anything to do with your ability to drive.  in America we have few cities with decent public transportation and we are married to the automobile.  Europe is not that way.   If you were exploring Los Angles, then you drive because there is very little alternative.  In Europe, you have a fine system of trains and public transportation.  Even if you drive, you will want to use the public transportation in the cities.  If you want to see the countryside, take the train.  If you are driving, you see the road not the countryside and certainly not the city.  Of course, using public transportation will require some time to learn how it works.  This is further complicated by the fact that most American's think they are god's gift to driving.  These people appear to be wrong since Americans die on the highway at a rate of over 25,000 people a year.  I love it when people get on here and say: "I live and drive in XYZ city, so of course I can drive in Europe".  Of course, do they drive in XYZ city with a manual transmission, with road signs in a foreign language, against other drivers who have had NO formal driver training, on roads not fit for cattle, and roads that are unfamiliar to them?  Even on good roads like the Autobahn, the way they drive is much different.   

Why don't you want to go to Austria?  Now you're talking hiking!.  Berchetsdarten is just 20 minutes from Salzburg.  That is Hitler's mountain lair.  The Sound of Music is a film showing Austria- especially Salzburg.  I took a tour in a van from Munich last September from Munich during Oktoberfest.  If you are going in September of October, I'd consider Oktoberfest and the city of Munich.

You will need to rent a car on the Canary Islands.

I am editing my above post.  I said trips to Russia visa free from Stockholm.  I MEANT HELSINKI.  Sorry.


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## Pompey Family (Jul 17, 2016)

Jimster said:


> Warsaw is ok but Kraków is the cultural hub of Poland.  Warsaw was obliterated in WWII so from a historic perspective there isn't much.  Kraków is a jump off spot to Auschwitz if that is of interest to you.  It is also a beautiful city with lots to do.  Poland is not on the Euro and life is cheap there.
> 
> I am not a big fan of driving in Europe although I have done it in several places. It has nothing to do with my ability to drive since I drive downtown Chicago nor does it have anything to do with your ability to drive.  in America we have few cities with decent public transportation and we are married to the automobile.  Europe is not that way.   If you were exploring Los Angles, then you drive because there is very little alternative.  In Europe, you have a fine system of trains and public transportation.  Even if you drive, you will want to use the public transportation in the cities.  If you want to see the countryside, take the train.  If you are driving, you see the road not the countryside and certainly not the city.  Of course, using public transportation will require some time to learn how it works.  This is further complicated by the fact that most American's think they are god's gift to driving.  These people appear to be wrong since Americans die on the highway at a rate of over 25,000 people a year.  I love it when people get on here and say: "I live and drive in XYZ city, so of course I can drive in Europe".  Of course, do they drive in XYZ city with a manual transmission, with road signs in a foreign language, against other drivers who have had NO formal driver training, on roads not fit for cattle, and roads that are unfamiliar to them?  Even on good roads like the Autobahn, the way they drive is much different.
> 
> ...



I second the Krakow option. The Old Town in Warsaw is pleasant and it's impressive how it was completely reconstructed after the war however Krakow has more history and is better looking.

Also Munich. It has some fantastic beer gardens, ideal in the summer however I would avoid Oktoberfest, far too commercialised, far too busy and difficult (and expensive) to secure accommodation. The drive from Munich to Salzburg is a pleasure and you can stop at the many of the lakes along the way.

I wouldn't recommend a car for touring cities although not because of an apparent lack of formal driver training! Drivers throughout Europe require a driving licence which requires formal training but simply because it's a lot less hassle using public transport.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 17, 2016)

Loved Krakow .. years ago. Do the 1000 yo salt mine ... stop laughing ... it was a great place esp on a rainy day. The churches around the Krakow's Great Square are beautiful ... as are the pictures I took early one morning of church spirals and towers. There is a little art museum with the "Lady with Ermine" painting ... a da Vinci ... in/near the square. Krakow is anuniversity town...lots of life. Town's main square was NOT bombed to dust during WWII.

Sent friends there few years later ... a father & son together 3 week once in a lifetime trip. Flying between every city (had money; Dad was older). Were going to do the one day trip (in&out, no stay over) ... told them to plan 3 days as Auschwitz is a very tiring/depressing one full day trip & Krakow had a good main square & very European feel. Upon return, the son called me & told me those were the best 3 days of the trip ... every evening, they did little music clubs in basements around main square; did tours around the area; ate in places where English was not the language of the day.  

Thing change ... hope you have a great time.


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## Laurie (Jul 17, 2016)

*!)*

OK, lots of great destinations and here's some of what we have done:

I agree, forget driving in Budapest or Prague. We almost always rent a car but don't like big-city driving. We also stayed at Petnehazy Club outside of Budapest, easy low-cost trade. We had a car all week, which we needed for our 4-week trip, but parked it and I don't think we used it all week. A couple of their resort tours were very good (we don't usually avail ourselves of those) and otherwise used public transportation into the city.

For Prague - IMO one of most beautiful cities in Europe, and more so than Budapest if you are comparing -  we had a fabulous apartment in medieval Tyn Square (actually a small house inside a medieval building courtyard), the most perfect location, reasonable and great host who showed us around, I'll dig up the particulars if you want. That's the location you want, for walk-out-the-door access to tons of walking tours. Czech Republic has door-to-door shuttle service from major cities like Vienna and it was the best way to get around.

The Alps - perhaps my favorite place in the universe. 

Switzerland: most perfect spot IMO is car-free Murren in Bernese Oberland area. There used to be a timeshare there which we were lucky to exchange into, alas it's out of biz. So next summer we are going back on a private rental. We also have 2 other TS exchanges next summer back-to-back which I can't comment on yet, but they are in Leukerbad and Les Diablarets. 

Last time we also did one wk at a TS, Mont Calme I think was the name - it was good, close to Montreux, but not as idyllic as Murren. That week, we had a car and alternated hiking days with driving - the appeal was walking along bisses - irrigation channels, sorta like Madeira and fairly level and very scenic. After that week we turned in our car and only used Swiss pass train to get to Murren.

Italian Alps, the Dolomites - another piece of heaven and we have been 2x. Merano has a TS we exchanged into last week of October (can't remember name, one of the Fereinclub Mondi places)and it was capital-P Perfect, peak leaf season and warm and gorgeous - it's a microclimate there! 

Most other Alpine locations I wouldn't go in shoulder season or winter (unless you ski) because the lifts aren't all open, if you want to reach upper trails - which is what I love the most. 

We also exchanged into Val de Gardena on a previous trip into a so-so TS called Sassolungo - great location but meh accomodations, tho we were mostly out. We hiked every day in and from Alpe de Siussi, the largest alpine meadow maybe in Europe, look up in Rick Steves. We also overnited there in medieval town Castelrotto, inexpensive and lovely hotel. Timeshare exchanges are fairly low-cost into Italian Alps in summer. Val de Badia was also a good hiking location. Some of the TS's there are in the more open alpine areas which I like best. Some in the narrower wooded valleys, not as much.  

We have also exchanged into Austria a few times - loved Grundlsee TS the best (had a studio but paid for upgrade to 1-BR lakefront view, worth it), trip to Hallstadt, hike near Dachstein -  also loved driving the Grossglockner high alpine road, overnite in Salzburg, and couple nights in Melk hotel on the Danube. We have done 3 exchanges into Austria, in add'n to Grundlsee, one in Vienna and one in Bad Gastein. Warning - we got 2 speeding tickets, driving out of Vienna and back into the airport - the only time that ever happened in many years of driving in Europe.

And we drove thru Slovenia Julian Alps and overnighted at Lake Bled - hotel, no TS - with some beautiful scenery nearby as well. 

Best Alpine hiking IMO: Switzerland and Italy.

Those are just a few of the highlights that spring to mind. You can certainly fill up many months with wondrous scenic adventures, I envy you!

Oh - also once flying home from Denmark we connected thru Helsinki. Most of the airport travelers seemed to be Americans going home from St. Petersburg and maybe other Russia cities. So that's another place you might be able to get a good tour in addition to Stockholm.


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## Jimster (Jul 17, 2016)

*Edit*

Above I said visa free tours from Stockholm to Russia.  I MEANT HELSINKI.  Sorry for any confusion.  Next time I will engage my brain before typing.


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## Ken555 (Jul 17, 2016)

I recently spent four nights in St Pete. We took the train from Helsinki (which was great, since it was fast and had customs and immigration on board). We had to get visas and made our own hotel arrangements. Small hotel within 10 minute walk of the Hermitage and a great choice. Visas were ~$350 using a service. I looked into tours from Helsinki prior to the trip, but didn't find any that looked appealing. Note from what I read that if you take a visa free trip, such as from a cruise, you can only go places with a tour...no independent touring, walking, etc. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## nightnurse613 (Jul 18, 2016)

There are so many places, in Germany alone, I would love to revisit. Some have been mentioned but my favorite would include the Black Forest, Neuschwanstein Castle, King Ludwig's castle, Oberammegau, Berchetsgarten, Konigsee, Eagle's Nest, Salt mines, Salsburg, Lake Cheimsee and Munich. I could spend many months just exploring southern Germany. This was part of a road trip we took many years ago. Make sure you check them out as possible stops. The Germans love to hike. Every weekend there is a Volksmarch somewhere. A walk of several miles, usually thru a lovely part of the forest. Of course, there are the parts of Germany preserved as reminders of a world gone crazy (my husband loves history) but I would only visit Dachau, one was enough for me. Late Fall is beautiful but may be snowy-certainly rainy.


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## Jwerking (Jul 18, 2016)

*Thank you*

As always, Tuggers are the best - thank all of you for your comments and suggestions.  Once again, Laurie, thank you for all the details and sharing your Europeans travels. 

I should just move to Germany and live with my daughter for the 3 yrs that she is there - hmm, bet she would love that!  It would probably be best to spend from SPring to Fall in Europe - as summer is likely best for hiking in the Alps.  Yes, so many places to visit in southern Germany - can't wait and could easily spend a month or more just visiting that area.  

My dilemma is that we purchased a townhouse directly on the beach in Va Beach less than 2 yrs ago - this is our second beach season.  So I feel obligated to spend our summers here enjoying the water.  But we can likely sacrifice a summer - as daughter is going to be in Germany for only 3 yrs.

We visited Austria about 10 yrs ago and did spend a week in a timeshare resort in the mountains close to Salzburg - but that was in the days before we started to hike.  So for sure, worth a repeat visit.  

Bummer about Russia - ouch, $350 for VISA, pricey?  I will have to research - is this per city visited or would cover all of Russia?

With regards to timesharing, is it best to be searching for summer 2018 weeks at this point versus summer 2017 weeks - will availability be better?

Joyce


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## Pompey Family (Jul 19, 2016)

Jwerking said:


> Bummer about Russia - ouch, $350 for VISA, pricey?  I will have to research - is this per city visited or would cover all of Russia?



Any particular reason for wanting to go to Russia? I visited Moscow many years ago as I have always been interested in the Cold War, the Kremlin, Red Square etc as a kid and I persuaded my wife to visit with me one November!

Once we had toured those areas we found Moscow to be a bit of a let down. It's  quite an expensive city, the people are unwelcoming, there's not a great deal to see or do and many places are hidden away. It's certainly not a place I would return to and although St. Petersburg has some attractive architecture there are many more places in Europe that I would consider more worthy of visiting notwithstanding easier and cheaper to visit.


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## Ken555 (Jul 19, 2016)

Pompey Family said:


> Any particular reason for wanting to go to Russia? I visited Moscow many years ago as I have always been interested in the Cold War, the Kremlin, Red Square etc as a kid and I persuaded my wife to visit with me one November!
> 
> 
> 
> Once we had toured those areas we found Moscow to be a bit of a let down. It's  quite an expensive city, the people are unwelcoming, there's not a great deal to see or do and many places are hidden away. It's certainly not a place I would return to and although St. Petersburg has some attractive architecture there are many more places in Europe that I would consider more worthy of visiting notwithstanding easier and cheaper to visit.





St Petersburg is absolutely fantastic. It should be on everyone's must see list.


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## Jwerking (Jul 20, 2016)

Pompey Family said:


> Any particular reason for wanting to go to Russia? I visited Moscow many years ago as I have always been interested in the Cold War, the Kremlin, Red Square etc as a kid and I persuaded my wife to visit with me one November!
> 
> Once we had toured those areas we found Moscow to be a bit of a let down. It's  quite an expensive city, the people are unwelcoming, there's not a great deal to see or do and many places are hidden away. It's certainly not a place I would return to and although St. Petersburg has some attractive architecture there are many more places in Europe that I would consider more worthy of visiting notwithstanding easier and cheaper to visit.



Just another country on my bucket list to visit - but given your candid comments about Moscow, it has moved down significantly on the "list".  St Petersburg still has promise - but with the VISA requirements, it too moves down - lots of other places in Europe to visit first!

I am American born Chinese - so visited my parent's home in rural SW Mainland China over 10 yrs ago.  Yes, lots of obstacles and VISAs.  I was really lucky actually to locate and enter my parent's house and Mom's childhood home.  Pretty awesome, there was a Gov't office that hosted overseas Chinese and the lady found folks in the village that had keys to the houses.  Probably possible only because I speak Toishanese (the local dialect) pretty fluently - but no one in Hong Kong understood my peasant dialect - had to speak in English - LOL!   A very special experience for me but my Caucasian hubby hated it.  

Also, had this underlying fear that they were going to detain me at some point, as the Gov't lady quickly found out that my uncle had graduated from "the West Point" of China and had served as an officer in Chiang Kai-shek army before immigrating to the US as a refugee in the early 50s.


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## Passepartout (Jul 20, 2016)

That's very interesting about visiting rural China. Most of us who do go there only get to see the more 'Westernized' parts.

As to Russia, in your situation, probably an organized tour of St. Petersburg, where they handle the visa requirements for the group as a whole will be the more economical way to see the high points. By boat from Helsinki would likely be the best access for you, though it might be worth checking for tours from Warsaw.

Agree with the comments that Krakow is more 'historically accurate' than Warsaw, which was leveled in WWII, and rebuilt to photographs only 4' higher after the war.

I was stationed in Bavaria for almost 2 years back during the cold war, and traveled extensively in that area. Well, as much as $93.20 a month income and my thumb allowed. You will enjoy Southern Germany as much or more than anywhere.

Jim


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## perktd (Jul 26, 2016)

My wife and I just returned from spending two weeks in Russia on a Viking River Cruise.  Russia has changed a great deal in the last few years and I believe anyone who visited more than ten years ago would have a very different experience now.  If you do visit, spend the money on visas rather than restrict yourselves to a tour only experience.  We were free to roam and wander at will and found Russia to be much more open and welcoming than we expected.  We also expected St Petersburg to be very interesting and Moscow not so much.  St. Petersburg lived up to expectations and Moscow far exceeded expectations.  Because of language issues and a different alphabet, you may want to consider some type of organized tour or cruise to help get you acquainted on a first visit.
St Petersburg is very far north and will be colder, wetter, and have shorter days if you go in late fall.  However, if you visit in the middle of summer it will be busier with tourists at the main tourist attractions.  You decide your preferences.
Based on our visit, I would recommend you keeping Russia on your list.   Don


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## ruhskis9713 (Jul 30, 2016)

I disagree with the comment on Warsaw.  We were there in August and found it beautiful and curturally rich.  They have an old town that is lovely for walking and don't miss the museum of the Warsaw Uprising.

Krakow is also wonderful and it's a short drive to Zakopane, a charming ski area and the Slovak border.  You are so close I recommend spending a day in the Tatra Mountains of Slovakia. Stay in Strbske Pleso at the Grand Hotel Kempinski to feel like royalty for a day at a very reasonable price and take a raft trip on the Dunajec River.  Slovakia is an undiscovered paradise.


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## MarkB2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

I am another huge fan of Krakow. Loved the city, the people are great, the food is very good, the beer outstanding, the salt mine is very cool, the Square is outstanding, listen for the bugle and its abrupt end. Not sure if the Tartar story is true but it is a slice of Poland.
I also loved St. Petersburg, though I have to admit it looks better under a coat of snow. The canals, the cruiser Aurora, the Hermitage can take up a whole dy or more... The food is generally not so great and the people can be a pain until you get to know them. Russia is, or was 15 years ago, not the friendliest place in the world. I had the unfortunate fate of arriving there a few days after the Beslan Massacre. I had long black hair and a beard and I was carrying a beat up old back pack. Every time I went under a street to cross to the other side there was a 50-50 chance a police officer would jump out from behind a mirrored glass door demanding my papers. 
They thought I was a Chechen bomber.   
But even after I left the backpack behind it was still a pain trying to find a decent café.
But the Hermitage and the city itself make it worthwhile.
And Zakopane is a nice ski town in southern Poland that is well worth visiting any time of the year, great walking trails. Just across the border in Slovakia there is another ski town called Stary Smokovec that is very fun to use as a base for walking in the mountains, as well.



vacationhopeful said:


> Loved Krakow .. years ago. Do the 1000 yo salt mine ... stop laughing ... it was a great place esp on a rainy day. The churches around the Krakow's Great Square are beautiful ... as are the pictures I took early one morning of church spirals and towers. There is a little art museum with the "Lady with Ermine" painting ... a da Vinci ... in/near the square. Krakow is anuniversity town...lots of life. Town's main square was NOT bombed to dust during WWII.
> 
> Sent friends there few years later ... a father & son together 3 week once in a lifetime trip. Flying between every city (had money; Dad was older). Were going to do the one day trip (in&out, no stay over) ... told them to plan 3 days as Auschwitz is a very tiring/depressing one full day trip & Krakow had a good main square & very European feel. Upon return, the son called me & told me those were the best 3 days of the trip ... every evening, they did little music clubs in basements around main square; did tours around the area; ate in places where English was not the language of the day.
> 
> Thing change ... hope you have a great time.


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## MastiffMom (Aug 1, 2016)

*Russia*

My husband lived in Ukraine for a bit, and we have traveled a lot in Ukraine and western Russia.  My husband speaks fluent Russian, and we are what I would consider fairly adventurous travelers. (If you find yourselves in Poland, maybe consider the short trip across the border to Lviv, Ukraine - it's a lovely city rich in Ukrainian history.)

Russia does require expense visas for any circumstance other than the St. Pete via Helsinki tours already mentioned.  In our experience, it hasn't been a huge deal beyond the advance planning.  You need to give yourselves plenty of time to apply and receive the visas.  There are expediters, but they are expensive.

I've been to St. Pete and Moscow multiple times.  I generally would NOT recommend Russia to independent travelers who don't speak/read Russian.  We've seen many, many examples of people taking extreme advantage of tourists who were unable to communicate effectively.  This is especially true in Moscow.  While Moscow has a lot of interesting things to see, it is extremely expensive and difficult to explore if you don't read Cyrillic.  

St. Petersburg is more friendly to western tourism.  It's more of a melting pot city, and you'll have better luck with English speakers/English signs and that sort of thing.  It's still a very Russian city, but IMO, one of the easier ones for westerners to navigate.

If you have not traveled to Russia and/or have no grasp of the language, I'd HIGHLY recommend some kind of organized tour.  I would not recommend Air B&B or the like for first-time tourists to Russia.  Via my husband, I have a lot of Russian and Ukrainian acquaintances whom I love dearly, and we have a strong appreciation and love for those regions.  So, as someone who is biased with a pro-Russian cultural view, I still recommend not traveling there independently.  It is not an easy place to navigate.


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## mbinpa (Aug 1, 2016)

My daughter is in the middle of a week stay in Bulgaria.  She is staying at the Balkin Jewel Resort and is LOVING IT!!!!  Granted she is an unafraid world traveler willing to go to strange places but she is enjoying it.  We own with Diamond and the Balkin Jewle is one of theirs, although when she booked it the DRI person said she was the first one to go there.


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## MastiffMom (Aug 1, 2016)

MarkB2016 said:


> Russia is, or was 15 years ago, not the friendliest place in the world. I had the unfortunate fate of arriving there a few days after the Beslan Massacre. I had long black hair and a beard and I was carrying a beat up old back pack. Every time I went under a street to cross to the other side there was a 50-50 chance a police officer would jump out from behind a mirrored glass door demanding my papers.
> They thought I was a Chechen bomber.
> But even after I left the backpack behind it was still a pain trying to find a decent café.
> But the Hermitage and the city itself make it worthwhile.



This.  The first time I visited, we took the train from Odessa, Ukraine, into Moscow.  We stopped at the border so the Russian border patrol could check everyone's papers.  We were detained for an hour while they ran my passport and visa.  I was very glad my Russian-speaking husband was with me; I'm not sure how it would have ended up if he hadn't been.  It was a bit uncomfortable.  And this was ten years ago, before the major Russia/Ukrainian conflicts.

Russia is still not the friendliest place in the world (at least to western foreigners), and while it's been a couple years since we've visited, I would expect relations to be a bit more strained due to the political environment.


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## clifffaith (Aug 1, 2016)

Jwerking said:


> As always, Tuggers are the best - thank all of you for your comments and suggestions.  Once again, Laurie, thank you for all the details and sharing your Europeans travels.
> 
> *I should just move to Germany and live with my daughter for the 3 yrs that she is there - hmm, bet she would love that! * It would probably be best to spend from SPring to Fall in Europe - as summer is likely best for hiking in the Alps.  Yes, so many places to visit in southern Germany - can't wait and could easily spend a month or more just visiting that area.
> 
> ...



Just wanted to comment that Cliff has a virtual friend on the Motley Fool website who visited her daughter in Germany for several months.  Neither he nor I can remember the exact details because this happened two years ago, but suddenly close to the 3 month mark she became aware that she was NOT allowed to be in Germany longer than 3 months at one time.  She ended up going to Spain for a visit just so she could then come back into Germany for a couple more months.

Enjoyed reading the comments about Moscow & St. Petersburg.  We thoroughly enjoyed our Fall 2014 Viking cruise from Budapest to Passau and are planning to make our next Viking excursion a Russian cruise -- hopefully in 2018.


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## MastiffMom (Aug 2, 2016)

clifffaith said:


> Enjoyed reading the comments about Moscow & St. Petersburg.  We thoroughly enjoyed our Fall 2014 Viking cruise from Budapest to Passau and are planning to make our next Viking excursion a Russian cruise -- hopefully in 2018.



Just wanted to say - I would NOT hesitate to take that Viking Russian cruise.  I've seen the brochure, and it looks like a great itinerary.  I think this would be a great way to get an introduction to Russia.  I love Russia and fully endorse the idea of traveling with a good tour service; I just wouldn't go the independent AirB&B type route unless I was a confident Russian speaker.


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## Karen G (Aug 3, 2016)

clifffaith said:


> Enjoyed reading the comments about Moscow & St. Petersburg.  We thoroughly enjoyed our Fall 2014 Viking cruise from Budapest to Passau and are planning to make our next Viking excursion a Russian cruise -- hopefully in 2018.


We had two days in St. Petersburg on a Viking Ocean cruise in May & it was fantastic. We talked with people who had done the Viking Russian cruise you are considering & they raved about it. They said it was the best Viking river cruise they had done and they had done several others.


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## Jwerking (Aug 23, 2016)

Thank you everyone for your comments - but your guys are killing me with all your great suggestions - Slovenia sounds like another research project!

I was planning my 2017 trip and was going to ask if spending 2 weeks in Prague and Budapest is too much?  Is there plenty to do to keep us busy?  Remember, we are retired, so would rather take some extra time to see all the sights leisurely and just chilling if we have bad weather.  Probably will also include Krakow in there as well for a week in between.

We will be traveling from Frankfurt - so should the route be Prague, Krakow, then Budapest?  Is the best way to travel between the 3 cities by train?

Once again, any comments would be appreciated. 

Joyce


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 23, 2016)

Joyce,
Have done the Prague, Krakow and Budapest by train .... back a few years. Great trip. Did overnight sleeper car (6 bunks in a compartment) coachettes, I believe. ... food extra. 

There were higher priced rooms ... booked the room for 2 or 3 persons in YOUR party. Looked very nice and am sure, expensive (at least WAY more than I would pay).

Loved all 3 cities...GREAT city squares, churches, great music, art museums. YOU be VERY busy to do all this inside of 2 weeks ... as travel will eat up a day (2 days .. 2 transfers). 

We also went both years to Karlovy Vary in the Czech Republic .... don't know if it has fared as well as the capital or bigger cities in the past 5+ years. It was where most of the Last Holiday movie was filmed (with LL Cool Jay and Queen Latiffia).


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## Passepartout (Aug 23, 2016)

Joyce, get the Rick Steves' guide or Lonely Planet or Fodor's or Eyewitness. Go to your local Barnes and Noble and compare them. Get the most up-to-date one. It will answer far more questions than even the most knowledgeable TUGger. Along with hotel and restaurant  and transport suggestions- and a handy language guide.

We toured this area far too long ago, for about 3-4 days each in Prague, Budapest, Vienna, Krakow, Warsaw. I think a week in each would not be too long. For instance, In Prague, we had a little extra time and wandered into the 'Embassy Row' neighborhood where Shirley Temple had lived and spent an afternoon in a laundromat with local people doing our laundry. It's stuff like this that makes travel come alive for us. It's not just museums, airports, train schedules and restaurants.

Jim


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## Jwerking (Aug 24, 2016)

<<YOU be VERY busy to do all this inside of 2 weeks ... as travel will eat up a day (2 days .. 2 transfers).>>

I actually meant I would stay 2 weeks each in Prague and Budapest - not 2 weeks total.  But Jim thinks a few days in each city is enough.  Ah, different strokes for different folks!  AirBnB accommodations are relatively cheap in these cities - so a longer stay would not be overly expensive after making the effort to get there. 

Found cheapie nonstop flights from Frankfurt to Prague and then Prague to Budapest - but only expensive connecting flights between Prague and Krakow.  So will need to research train travel in these areas.

Joyce


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## Pompey Family (Aug 24, 2016)

Jwerking said:


> <<YOU be VERY busy to do all this inside of 2 weeks ... as travel will eat up a day (2 days .. 2 transfers).>>
> 
> I actually meant I would stay 2 weeks each in Prague and Budapest - not 2 weeks total.  But Jim thinks a few days in each city is enough.  Ah, different strokes for different folks!  AirBnB accommodations are relatively cheap in these cities - so a longer stay would not be overly expensive after making the effort to get there.
> 
> ...



2 weeks in each city? What are you trying to do.....assimilate?

I would suggest that 2 weeks in either city is a week too long.


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## Jwerking (Aug 24, 2016)

Okay - one week each - got it!


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