# leg and derriere pain - Dr. says it's sciatica



## pjrose (Jan 31, 2012)

ok, now people can legitimately call me a PITA  , at least till this goes away.  I've had it for a week.  

It feels like a muscular ache, maybe a 5-6 on a scale with 10 being the worst ever, sometimes with a bit of instantaneous nerve-seeming "buzzing" or weird tickly feeling.  Goes down the back of both legs, but varies in how far - at least to the back of the knee, sometimes farther.  Worse on the right than the left.  Doesn't hurt at all when I'm sitting or lying down, just when I'm walking or doing stairs. 

I didn't think it was sciatica because it's not excruciating, which I thought was the case with sciatica.   I have no back pain at all - it starts halfway down the derriere.  But after I did a few assorted moves in the Dr.'s office, he said I showed the signs of sciatica.

Going tomorrow for X-rays to check the vertebrae, and taking Prednisone in addition to Aleve and Tylenol.

I'm quite sure that a week or so with warm weather and sunshine and maid service and a pool and the Caribbean Sea would take care of it, but traveling there would literally be a PITA 

I know there'll be some TUG wisdom and stories to share!


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## Talent312 (Jan 31, 2012)

All I can say is that I wish you a speedy recovery.

The adage, "If you don't have your health, you don't have anything," is all too true. When I'm indisposed, it seems like there is nothing worth doing.


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## MuranoJo (Jan 31, 2012)

I've had a sciatica episode before and all I can say is it's a pain in the ars.   
Got it when jogging and just dislocated something, but I honestly couldn't sit for a few weeks.  However, it only affected my hips and down one leg, not both legs.

Doctor told me I might need back surgery  , but a second opinion told me to just take it slow and do some exercises and I'd eventually get back to normal.  This same doctor told me about 95% of back surgeries are unnecessary.  Not sure if that's true, but it worked for me--eventually worked itself out.


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## jancpa (Jan 31, 2012)

An MRI may show a herniated disc or bone structure pressing up against the sciatic nerve causing the pain.


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## Passepartout (Jan 31, 2012)

Shucks PJ, that's a PITA for sure. All I can say is that life is better medicated. It's good that you don't have pain sitting or laying down. You'll be able to rest.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who went to the doc and said "It hurts here when I do _this_." The doc says, "So don't do _that_."

Hope you feel better soon.

Jim


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## MuranoJo (Feb 1, 2012)

PJ, I probably wasn't too helpful in my earlier post, but I just want to add I feel for ya.  It truly is painful.

Just a suggestion:  Try to elevate your knees at night with a firm cushion placed under your knees, so that the pressure is taken off your back.  It will really help.


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## easyrider (Feb 1, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> All I can say is that life is better medicated.
> 
> Kinda reminds me of the guy who went to the doc and said "It hurts here when I do _this_." The doc says, "So don't do _that_."
> 
> ...



Everything that Jim said plus, I Like Pain Pills when Im in pain. Vicodin works better than a chioprater for me.


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## pjrose (Feb 1, 2012)

muranojo said:


> PJ, I probably wasn't too helpful in my earlier post, but I just want to add I feel for ya.  It truly is painful.
> 
> Just a suggestion:  Try to elevate your knees at night with a firm cushion placed under your knees, so that the pressure is taken off your back.  It will really help.



Yes you were  .  It's not horribly painful, more uncomfortable with painful twinges.  I'll try your suggestion!




easyrider said:


> Everything that Jim said plus, I Like Pain Pills when Im in pain. Vicodin works better than a chioprater for me.



I can't take Vicodin - had it after surgery years ago and STILL remember the horrible scary hallucinations.  I've never had a "bad trip," but I think this was probably like that.  

Anyway, this doesn't hurt when I lie down or sit, and is tolerable with basic over-the-counter stuff, as long as I don't do too much walking or bending.  

Sounds like a good excuse to lie down on the couch or in bed and read!  It's kind of hard to use the computer that way, though.....perhaps I need an iPad with an easel cover LOL.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 1, 2012)

> I can't take Vicodin - had it after surgery years ago and STILL remember the horrible scary hallucinations. I've never had a "bad trip," but I think this was probably like that.


I thought I was the only one with this problem.  I was paranoid after my hysterectomy while on vicodin.  Rick would go to the firehouse, and I thought people were breaking into our house all night.  I was glad to be done with it.  I went off of it as soon as I could.


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## Phydeaux (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd be asking the physician about ordering an L-spine MR scan. Good luck!


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## gpurtz (Feb 1, 2012)

I recommend moist heat, electric low back massager and acupuncture.  But I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV.


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## lvhmbh (Feb 1, 2012)

Definitely should have MRI to be sure!


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## mrpickle (Feb 1, 2012)

*Exercizes*

I found these exercises very helpful!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU7abgOefu8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWc5tS2UIt4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFiLb6BJtG4


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## geekette (Feb 1, 2012)

PJ, I sympathize.

Sounds exactly like sciatica (sorry, I've never been able to spell it)

I have problems with it.  I've had it from my neck to my ankles.  It can be excruciating, or simply annoying.  The twinges you describe are dead-on.

bike riding is extremely good for it, but there are some easy exercises, too.  

Lay on your back, bring one knee to your chest, hold.  do the other knee. turn on your side, bring top leg up to chest, turn the other way, do the other leg.  easy easy easy.  you will feel it.  

try to avoid sitting with your legs crossed.  this is the worst offender for me.  "The Pull" always starts in my hip and if I don't address it with the stretching, it gets worse and spreads.

I also take Alleve as the anti-inflam helps greatly.  Doc gave me Naprosyn the first time I had the problem and it really helped.  I don't think I have ever returned to see him for it since the stretches and Alleve get me past it.

I hope you feel better soon!!


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## MommaBear (Feb 1, 2012)

You are on the right treatment for early sciatica. If things don't improve in a week to 10 days, you may benefit from some PT or your provider may want to get an MRI. An MRI now wouldn't change the treatment plan at this point and it might really aggravate things to have to lie flat on your back on a hard surface for up to 40 minutes while getting the MRI. If you cannot lift your foot or leg or if you have profound numbness, then an MRI at this point might be worthwhile. (And if you cannot control usual bathroom functions get to an 
ER immediately)

I also recommend the pillow under the knees. I am a fan of ongoing heat. I like the thermacare patches (rather than the back wrap) or something like icy hot or bengay. One of the problems with the sciatica pain is although it starts as a nerve irritation, it ends up making the muscles tight and aggravated, so anything to help soften the muscles helps the overall pain.

Good luck! It is truly a pain in the ass and you quickly find out how much we use our backs for when you cannot use it well! Hope you don't have to sneeze....

(and yes, I am a medical professional and have also had sciatica)


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## heathpack (Feb 1, 2012)

Sympathies.  Sending you a virtual mini pie 

H


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## pjrose (Feb 1, 2012)

heathpack said:


> Sympathies.  Sending you a virtual mini pie
> 
> H



Hey, I'm feeling better already!  And maybe you could send me some virtual popsicles?  My favorite would be a combination of chocolate (of course), coconut, peanut butter, and banana.  

I limped through the grocery store yesterday and bought the ingredients for Apple Butter Pie.  

A friend makes this pie that's really a giant chocolate chip cookie. 

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/toll-house-pie-i/

I would definitely use less butter.

How do you think it might work in the pie maker?


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## aandmrun (Feb 1, 2012)

*I'm not a doctor but....*

Hi, I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain.  I am not a doctor, but I do a lot of fast walking and sometimes get that pain up and down my legs.  I discovered what I call my "magic" pill.  It is an over the counter pain pill and works like magic every time.  I introduced it to my mother (92) who was having "tired legs" after being on her feet for some time in the mornings.  She said she takes it in the afternoon and relaxes on her easy chair.  It is working for her too.  It is Magnilife Sciatica Relief.  Not all drug stores carry it, but I get it at CVS.  Looks like the active ingredient is magnesium.  I hope you feel better soon.


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## Phydeaux (Feb 1, 2012)

MommaBear said:


> You are on the right treatment for early sciatica. If things don't improve in a week to 10 days, you may benefit from some PT or your provider may want to get an MRI. *An MRI now wouldn't change the treatment plan at this point and it might really aggravate things to have to lie flat on your back on a hard surface for up to 40 minutes while getting the MRI.* If you cannot lift your foot or leg or if you have profound numbness, then an MRI at this point might be worthwhile. (And if you cannot control usual bathroom functions get to an
> ER immediately)
> 
> I also recommend the pillow under the knees. I am a fan of ongoing heat. I like the thermacare patches (rather than the back wrap) or something like icy hot or bengay. One of the problems with the sciatica pain is although it starts as a nerve irritation, it ends up making the muscles tight and aggravated, so anything to help soften the muscles helps the overall pain.
> ...



With due respect, just curious what field of medicine you're in. First, to suggest an MR wouldn't change the course of treatment at this stage is curious. Second, a typical l-spine MR takes 20 minutes max. Third, they wouldn't perform the MR without a generous size bolster under both legs (making most patients so comfortable they beg to buy the bolster and take it home with them). I too, am in the medical field - MR to be more specific.


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## pjrose (Feb 1, 2012)

Wow, as always, what a wealth of help from my TUG peeps!

I got a set of X-Rays today.  The tech used a big bolster to prop me in various positions and I said I wanted one to take home; she said a lot of people ask for one.  Then when I got home and back on TUG and read Phydeaux's mention of the bolster in the above post I cracked up laughing!  

I couldn't sleep last night (needed that bolster!) but today it's feeling better.  Either that or I'm too tired to notice it.  

I appreciate all the advice, and will sort through it and try your suggestions, especially the knee pillow and exercises and stretching, and PT and/or MRI if recommended. 

And pies, definitely pies LOL.


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## MommaBear (Feb 1, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> With due respect, just curious what field of medicine you're in. First, to suggest an MR wouldn't change the course of treatment at this stage is curious. Second, a typical l-spine MR takes 20 minutes max. Third, they wouldn't perform the MR without a generous size bolster under both legs (making most patients so comfortable they beg to buy the bolster and take it home with them). I too, am in the medical field - MR to be more specific.



I am an NP in the Emergency room. Obviously our MRI takes longer than yours- we always tell patients it is at least 30 to 40 minutes (and that may be just to prepare them if it takes a longer time and if it is shorter, all the better.) In early sciatica the goal is to reduce inflammation and pain, as most episodes pass without need for diagnositc studies. I am glad you use the bolsters- not every one does, and often those with back pain have a hard time lying still. Yes, we can use anxiolytics and pain medication to make the MRI more comfortable, but generally MRIs are not done unless conservative treatment fails.


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## MommaBear (Feb 1, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Hey, I'm feeling better already!  And maybe you could send me some virtual popsicles?  My favorite would be a combination of chocolate (of course), coconut, peanut butter, and banana.
> 
> I limped through the grocery store yesterday and bought the ingredients for Apple Butter Pie.
> 
> ...



Glad you are doing so much better! I have found that chocolate, often in combination with other wonderful ingredients, just helps to make the world a better place.


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## Phydeaux (Feb 1, 2012)

PJ, glad you're feeling a little better. Hopefully you'll recover without the need for any further tests, but if an MR is ordered, a friendly tip: Research your options on _where you can have it done_, and select a state-of-the-art (ask - how old is the system? When was it last upgraded?) high-field 1.5 or 3.0 Tesla system. Good luck!


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## Kay H (Feb 1, 2012)

I had sciatica in my rt leg from the spring until late Nov or early Dec.  At first the pain went from one spot in my butt down to my knee.  Some days bad, some days not so bad.  I didn't do anything for it.  The pain down my leg went away first but it always felt like i was sitting on a hard wooden bench with no pillow.  Finally the whole thing stopped hurting.  Thankfully it is all gone now.


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## geekette (Feb 1, 2012)

Kay H said:


> I had sciatica in my rt leg from the spring until late Nov or early Dec.  At first the pain went from one spot in my butt down to my knee.  Some days bad, some days not so bad.  I didn't do anything for it.  The pain down my leg went away first but it always felt like i was sitting on a hard wooden bench with no pillow.  Finally the whole thing stopped hurting.  Thankfully it is all gone now.



that's a long time to just live with it!  

while I hope there is no Next Time, hopefully you'll be prepared to be rid of it a lot quicker!

PJ - glad you are getting better!!  +1 on chocolate!


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## pjrose (Feb 1, 2012)

Phydeaux said:


> PJ, glad you're feeling a little better. Hopefully you'll recover without the need for any further tests, but if an MR is ordered, a friendly tip: Research your options on _where you can have it done_, and select a state-of-the-art (ask - how old is the system? When was it last upgraded?) high-field 1.5 or 3.0 Tesla system. Good luck!



Thank you for this suggestion.  

Our hospital is fairly new but I will still check on that.  

PJ


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## MuranoJo (Feb 2, 2012)

Glad to hear you're feeling better!  I'm sure the thoughts of chocolate or mini-pies relaxed your muscles.   

What is a bolster?  Sounds an awful lot like a pillow or something to prop the knees up and relax the lower back.   

I wrestle with off & on lower back and related hip and sciatica issues at times.  (Probably due to too much time at a desk.)  I am on a mission to find or make something that will elevate my knees at night.  Maybe a customized cut of a firm foam.  What I really want is one of those beds (Tempurpedic?) which you can adjust to the position to elevate the knees.


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## pjrose (Feb 2, 2012)

muranojo said:


> Glad to hear you're feeling better!  I'm sure the thoughts of chocolate or mini-pies relaxed your muscles.
> 
> What is a bolster?  Sounds an awful lot like a pillow or something to prop the knees up and relax the lower back.
> 
> I wrestle with off & on lower back and related hip and sciatica issues at times.  (Probably due to too much time at a desk.)  I am on a mission to find or make something that will elevate my knees at night.  Maybe a customized cut of a firm foam.  What I really want is one of those beds (Tempurpedic?) which you can adjust to the position to elevate the knees.



Exactly - in this case it is a firm foam long triangular pillow to put wherever you need it to keep you from rolling over, or to prop you up, etc. 

Temperpedic beds are not adjustable, they are a form-fitting foam that you kind of sink into and it cradles you....some like them, some don't.  There are pillows made for the purpose of elevating the knees; Google and Amazon are your friends!  An adjustable bed might also be good, but a lot more expensive than a few bolsters.


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## Passepartout (Feb 2, 2012)

You can get an adjustable TempurPedic here: http://www.tempurpedic.com/Adjustable-Bases/Adjustable-Bases.asp If you want to spend the money. We got one for DW's 94 y.o. dad in his assisted living appt. He couldn't get out of it. Too soft. Too much money (water) over the dam. 

Jim


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## lvhmbh (Feb 2, 2012)

I suggested the MRI because my Sports Medicine MD/Surgeon had me get one two weeks after my first episode.  I did it during a sailing trip in the Grenadines - flew back to FL and then, finally, to NY where I went to the Dr.  He treats/treated (quite a while ago) all the local professional teams.  Anyway, he said yep it is sciatica - after viewing the MRI he insisted I get -  and said the only thing he would recommend besides the laying down stretches was to walk.  Now, I have to tell ya the walking hurt but.....after a while all the pain went away.  Sciatica is not cured - can't be as far as I know without surgery of some kind - but with exercise you can stave it off.  I ride a bike now and walk in the pool and I (cross fingers) have not had an episode for years.


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## Chrisky (Feb 2, 2012)

Yes, I'm a firm believer in exercise.  As LVHMBH says, whatever the problem exercise won't cure it, but strengthening all the muscles will definitely alleviate the pain.  I also like to recommend to anyone with any sort of lower back pain to try to get into a Pilates class where the exercises on done on a reformer. Pilates done this way is an excellent muscles builder without putting a strain on the lower back.


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## geekette (Feb 2, 2012)

+1 Pilates.  

I've not done reformer but P in general is extremely beneficial in many ways.  there are a lot of different exercises so you can avoid the very painful ones and pick something else.  

definitely start out with an instructor to make sure you are doing it right, not causing your body more problems.


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## MuranoJo (Feb 3, 2012)

Some time ago, DH handed me a Dr. Oz article in the newspaper and I wish I would have kept it.

Anyway, his advice for lower back or hip pain (and sciatica is related I believe), that walking is the best solution.  He said it may be painful for at least a week, but walking apparently reduces inflammation which many times is the culprit.

One of my sisters had lower back surgery (laser I believe) and she also says Pilates is very effective.


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## pjrose (Feb 3, 2012)

muranojo said:


> Some time ago, DH handed me a Dr. Oz article in the newspaper and I wish I would have kept it.
> 
> Anyway, his advice for lower back or hip pain (and sciatica is related I believe), that walking is the best solution.  He said it may be painful for at least a week, but walking apparently reduces inflammation which many times is the culprit.
> 
> One of my sisters had lower back surgery (laser I believe) and she also says Pilates is very effective.



Thanks.  I think sitting on my rear on TUG and Facebook are putting too much pressure on the tailbone....I'll bet that's part of the problem.


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## lvhmbh (Feb 3, 2012)

:hysterical:   The Dr. did tell me that riding in a car/taxi was not a good idea (I know you have to but he stressed as little as possible) and sitting for any length of time!


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 3, 2012)

I have had back problems since I was about 18, but a few years ago the pain I had was severe, didn't stay gone after chiropractics and started running down my leg. I finally got an MRI and it was spinal stenosis. I had a laminectomy and it was much better. I still have some back problems, but nothing like that. X-rays will not show up something like the spinal stenosis, an MRI will.
Liz


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## pjrose (Feb 3, 2012)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I have had back problems since I was about 18, but a few years ago the pain I had was severe, didn't stay gone after chiropractics and started running down my leg. I finally got an MRI and it was *spinal stenosis. I had a laminectomy* and it was much better. I still have some back problems, but nothing like that. X-rays will not show up something like the spinal stenosis, an MRI will.
> Liz



What are those?


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 4, 2012)

Spinal stenosis is a narrowing of the spinal cord causing nerve compression. The laminectomy was an outpatient arthroscopic surgery where the doctor moved the nerve out of the way and scraped or somehow removed whatever was causing the narrowing of the spinal column and putting pressure on the nerve. Then he put the nerve back in place and the recovery was not bad. I was taking pain pills for about 3 days, but up walking the day after the surgery and out walking the week after. I was told to walk a mile a day to help the discs and help heal. I was off work for 6 weeks and was told to be really careful bending and lifting for about 6 months and not to lift more than 20 pounds.
Liz


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## Phydeaux (Feb 4, 2012)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> *Spinal stenosis is a narrowing of the spinal cord* causing nerve compression. The laminectomy was an outpatient arthroscopic surgery where the doctor moved the nerve out of the way and scraped or somehow removed whatever was causing the narrowing of the spinal column and putting pressure on the nerve. Then he put the nerve back in place and the recovery was not bad. I was taking pain pills for about 3 days, but up walking the day after the surgery and out walking the week after. I was told to walk a mile a day to help the discs and help heal. I was off work for 6 weeks and was told to be really careful bending and lifting for about 6 months and not to lift more than 20 pounds.
> Liz



No it is not. It is a narrowing of the _spinal canal_ that encompasses the spinal cord, causing pressure on the neural foramina. 

I think what you're referring to is a arthroscopic _disectomy_, not laminectomy. A laminectomy procedure is a surgical procedure removing the laminae thereby allowing the herniated disc to relieve it's pressure against the nerve, and it is _not_ an outpatient procedure. A disectomy uses an arthroscope and removes part of the herniated disc itself, not bone (lamina).


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## pjrose (Feb 4, 2012)

Either way, the former is ouchy and the latter amazing.

How tiny is a nerve?  Isn't it even thinner than a sewing thread?  Or like one of the tiny threads that together make up a sewing thread?


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## heathpack (Feb 4, 2012)

Stenosis= narrowing of the normal size of an opening.  Stenosis of the spinal canal is a narrowing of the size of the spinal canal that results in compression of the structures in the canal (either nerve roots or spinal cord, depending on the location along the spine- in your case, it would be nerve roots). The foramen is the opening by which the nerve roots exit the spinal canal.  Foraminal stenosis results in nerve root impingement, but outside the spinal canal. The symptoms of either form of stenosis would be the same in the lumbar spine- ie, either could cause sciatica.  If the compression is at the level of the spinal canal, other nerve roots that run through that area of the spinal canal can be affected.  In the lumbar spine, the other nerve roots of concern are the sacral nerve roots that control urinary/fecal continence (too much information?!).

An MRI can readily diagnosis spinal vs foraminal stenosis.  Some/many patients (dogs anyway) have both. The compression is typically due to a combination of soft tissues (disc herniation, ligamentous hypertrophy/thickening) and the development or arthritic bone spurs (osteophytes).

An "-ectomy" is a surgery that removes something.  An "-otomy" is a surgery that enters or opens something.  The lamina is the roof of the spinal canal.  Therefore a laminectomy is a surgery in which the roof of the spinal canal is removed (for the purpose of decompressing the cord or nerve roots).  A discectomy is a surgery to remove a (typically) herniated disc.  A foramenotomy is a surgery that enlarges the size of the intervertebral foramen in order to create more space for the nerve root as it exits the spinal canal.

If you were my patient, you'd be a dog of course, and for your first episode of pain with no loss of neurologic function, you'd be prescribed rest and pain meds.  You'd only get an MRI if that approach failed (or, lol, you were a Guide Dog- then you'd get an MRI right away and at a discount to boot).

Hopefully you are feeling better soon.

H


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## pjrose (Feb 4, 2012)

I appreciate the explanations above.

I'm feeling much better, though shopping with DD (for the followers of the DD saga, she is now home - yay!!!) did take a toll on my right rear and thigh.  

Heath: Does the doggie get some pies or pops along with the meds and bed rest?


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## heathpack (Feb 4, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Either way, the former is ouchy and the latter amazing.
> 
> How tiny is a nerve?  Isn't it even thinner than a sewing thread?  Or like one of the tiny threads that together make up a sewing thread?



The sciatic nerve is one of the biggest nerves in the body.  In a dog, several nerve roots combine to form the sciatic nerve.  The one involved with spinal problems at the lumbosacral disc space is the nerve root arising from the 7th lumbar spinal segment (humans only have 5 lumbar spinal segments, so I guess it would be the nerve root of the 5th lumbar spinal nerve).

The L7 nerve root in a big dog is about the size of a strand of spaghetti.  I'm guessing yours would be about twice as big. 

H


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## pjrose (Feb 4, 2012)

heathpack said:


> The sciatic nerve is one of the biggest nerves in the body.  In a dog, several nerve roots combine to form the sciatic nerve.  The one involved with spinal problems at the lumbosacral disc space is the nerve root arising from the 7th lumbar spinal segment (humans only have 5 lumbar spinal segments, so I guess it would be the nerve root of the 5th lumbar spinal nerve).
> 
> The L7 nerve root in a big dog is about the size of a strand of spaghetti.  I'm guessing yours would be about twice as big.
> 
> H



Thanks - I find this all fascinating!


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## heathpack (Feb 4, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Heath: Does the doggie get some pies or pops along with the meds and bed rest?



Haha, no, maybe one biscuit in the office.  But usually they get put on a diet.

H


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## glypnirsgirl (Feb 5, 2012)

For me, I find that driving and the contant pressure on the accelerator are the worst culprits for the onset of episodes.

I have found that doing exercises similar to the ones on the chiropractic you tube videos are extremely helpful. I especially find the paraformis stretch provides a great deal of relief --- he deomonstrates that stretch in the second video.

Also, if I get up from my chair at least once per hour to do a couple of very shallow squats, plies and then walk around for a minute that at the end of the day I am in pretty good shape. If i stay stuck in my chair, I am in misery.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

elaine


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 6, 2012)

I found that driving my Legacy sedan to pt was a killer, while driving my DH's Ford 150 (with pedal adjusted high) was fine. I think that means any new car needs to have that kind of straight down foot position.
Liz


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## SueDonJ (Feb 6, 2012)

heathpack said:


> ... If you were my patient, you'd be a dog of course ...



I agree with PJ, your posts are fascinating and it's so nice for us dawg owners that you share what you know.  Thanks!  This tidbit, though, just struck my funny bone and made me laugh.  :hysterical: 

Back to the thread topic, I hope all of you with pain are feeling better soon.


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